How To Talk To A Man

Here’s a note from “Irene” – who’s just discovering how powerful it is to tell the truth to a man:

“Rori, I was trying to figure out how to say “I want to see you more” and “I want you to want to see me more” without saying exactly that, so here’s what I did…

It took a 30 minute phone call and a bit of joking and teasing on my part to get him to say he wanted to see me for drinks and conversation, so we got together.

After the pleasantries were exchanged and I was feeling confident and relaxed (and took a HUGE deep breath), I said “You know, I’d really like to be able to tell you that I want to see you, but when I think about saying something like that, it makes me feel like I’m being pushy and I don’t like how that makes me feel. I would really enjoy hearing you say that you want to see me.”

And he responded with “So you’re saying that you want me to be more honest with you and take the lead and just tell you when I want to see you?” …

…and I responded with “Yes, I would really feel better about everything if you were to do that for me” …

…and he responded with “Well, I can do that as that’s easy enough.”

I was so scared to have this conversation and was incredibly pleased with the way it went. I was authentic and honest and open and told him how I felt and he was more than receptive and understanding! Thank you for the coaching on this point!

Understanding how to communicate with men so they “get it” is actually amazingly easy! And it’s actually opened lines of communication between us that I never thought were possible! He told me later on in the evening that the more time he spends with me the more he wants to spend with me, so obviously, he felt safe enough to communicate his feelings too!

Again, a million thanks to everyone for the advice and insight. I hope my comments will help someone else too!!

p.s. The “leaning back” is priceless! When I understoond that leaning forward is seen as an aggressive move to a man, when I get the urge to lean forward to make a point in the conversation, I conciously try to remember to lean back. I still say what I was going to say, but with body language that’s non-threatening.

It’s amazing how powerful such a subtle move is, but wow… the results were priceless!

The first time I tried this, within just a few minutes, he was standing behind me and wanting to give me a hug! All because I was non-threatening when talking about something important to me!!”

From Rori:

The big, huge thing here is the difference between the first part of this letter, where: “It took a 30 minute phone call and a bit of joking and teasing on my part to get him to say he wanted to see me for drinks and conversation, so we got together,” and the last part, where Irene tells the truth.

The first part is all strategy, machination, passive aggressive, games, and trying to GET a man to DO something you want him to do.

The second part has no agenda at all – and as a result – HE askes Irene what she wants him to do! She didn’t ask him up front – HE asked HER for clarification and direction.

This is a subtle thing – and I really thought Irene’s experience is incredibly helpful and very specific.

Love, Rori

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279 Comments to “How To Talk To A Man”

  1. 1: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    Yay, terrific example of feeling messages!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:05am

  2. 2: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Meemee 331

    Jealousy

    It is understandable, it is only human
    Jealousy is the main feeling throughout the Bible stories, the Greek mythology, the African legends, etc… It makes great theater dramas too through out the centuries, still make great movies. And will always do.
    It is at the root of the bloody wars throughout human history
    Jealousy and… revenge.

    Welcome home, Mrs Human

    Now, can you please, get away from the green monster before it eats you ability to create your happiness?
    And focus back on yourself and your happiness?
    It has been established that nothing X says, does or feels, contributes to your happiness.
    Can you keep that in mind? And stay away from his bridge? It’s a waste of precious energy.

    “He gets the job and I get the hospital. I feel a loser”
    OK, could be seen this way, yes
    It is not fair.
    Life is not fair.
    We are free when others are locked in jail.
    We are healthy when others are disabled.
    Some are beautiful, smart, healthy and able to make lots of money in activities they love, and on top of it they are friendly and charming.
    Others are ugly, stubborn, unhealthy, and too scared to make the least cent. On top of it, they think they know better, nobody can speak to them, so they suffer from loneliness.
    Others are ugly and friendly etc… the combinations are infinite.
    I mean, you look at such different types of human beings and you wonder what is the name of God’s game exactly?
    Why so much misery in a world with so much happiness?
    Some are born within love, others come to life to be beaten, raped and shamed.
    Some make a tantrum for a boy friend who does not text her good night, others hide an starve in the forest in their country in war, while the enemy cut into pieces one by one the members of their family.

    God’s game is not that funny. It might be called “spot the similarities in the different pictures.”
    Hardest game ever. Can’t spot any similarities.
    Life is not fair, yes. What else? What’s new?

    Oh but yes, wait, I do spot the similarity in all pictures, all situations.
    Life is not about fairness or about what my neighbor got that I don’t get.
    Life is about my happiness.
    My mind creates my happiness and the feelings I want to feel.
    Fairness is inside my mind.
    We all have the freedom to create the thoughts we want to create.
    We chose to feel free and happy or afraid, jealous and miserable.
    My happiness is in absolutely all the pictures made by God, in every situation, I can create it, because it comes from inside me.

    The girl hidden in the forest chooses to remember the laughters with her mother and she chooses to love the tree that hides her, and to become interested in the aints working besides her. She chooses to feel in agreement with her NOW..
    She could tremble and cry and wish there would be no war, but war would not stop. She could become crazy out of terror, fall ill out of anxiety and die behind her tree, it would not stop war.
    She would have been the one who killed herself, war would not have killed her, soldiers would have not killed her. She would have believed her thoughts that war was inside her, and she would have let her own mind kill her.

    The fairness of life is that even she can choose the thoughts that keep war outside her mind, she organizes her thoughts to keep peace inside and keep hope inside her and love for who she is in the NOW, in agreement with her surroundings, her reality.
    And when war is over, and nobody from outside of her has killed her, she is sane and safe, ready to start a great free glorious life in the open.

    Life is fair for whom can think.
    It’s about ME being fair to ME to vote for MY happiness from within ME.
    Because everything else outside of me is NOT fair, you are soooo right. And it is ephimerous on top of it. Which is good news, in case of wars.

    I’ve got to find love for me inside me, independent from what I do, from the people I know, the judgments made on me from outside, the job I have, the man I want.
    Because all that can vanish any day.
    And because they DO vanish someday, it’s bound to be.
    Things change within a life time.
    Even my body will let me down.
    I can rely on NOTHING outside my mind to know my self-value and to trust it until the last minute of the last day of my life.
    ME, I will always be faithful to myself, inside me, happy, if I found the right words to feed my mind with.
    The right words to think, to hear myself pronounce. To educate myself towards happiness.

    Did you want to be professor assistant in his field?
    Did you officially ask for it?
    Did he take the job from you?
    Would you change your opportunity to come to Europe and to finish what you are doing, against his job as professor assistant?
    Would you change the money you are making for your publications and translations against his salary as assistant?

    If the answer is “no”, what are you jealous of?
    What has his job got to do with you?
    Does he have what you want?
    Did he steal YOUR job?
    Or do you imagine this job makes him very happy and you want happiness?
    You don’t know what happiness means for him. You don’t know if he feels happy.
    Don’t even go there. The only thing you know for sure is he got a job.

    OK, you want happiness and you think he got yours, he stole it from you

    That is not true
    His happiness does not make you a loser.
    He has not stolen your happiness
    He got the job for him, not against you.
    What he has is not what you want in your life
    You are making different plans for you life than the plans he makes for himself.
    You chose to believe he has what you want
    You can chose to stop believing that lie right now.

    You have your life ahead of you with all the tool in hands.
    You can chose to start building your own happiness right now.
    Your happiness is yours, it belongs to inside your head
    You can chose to make it independent from his life and from what you assume is his happiness.

    You can chose to stop comparing to him and start to compare to your own idea of happiness and to start reaching your own happiness, independent from his life.

    His job does not make you unhappy.
    It is what you think about it that makes you unhappy.

    You can chose to stop thinking his job puts him above you.
    You are not even in the same scheme as him, you have different plans in life.
    You can chose to stop thinking he should not have the job.
    The proof that he should have it, is that he has it.
    God wants you to have something that suits you better and he wants you to start reaching for it now.

    You can chose to stop fighting reality and to love your NOW.
    You can chose to stop expecting anything about how X’s life should be.
    It has never worked. He has never said or done or felt anything you expected.

    You can choose to learn another new beautiful lesson from your experience with X.
    “A man will not stop climbing the social ladder while the woman gives him her precious time to make and raise his babies. Or you could have stopped your studies to work to pay his studies, it would be the same today. You went to the hospital for something he did with you, you fought fevers, it is the same. He did not stop climbing his ladder in the mean time, your reality does not interfere into his.
    When a man is done with a woman, he is done.
    It does not matter what sacrifice she was doing while he was working towards his interest. When he is done, he is done, new stage in life means new type of wife or lover.
    He is not grateful.
    He considers she did what she wanted to do.
    Which is true.
    So, make sure you are doing what leads to YOUR happiness and not to a man’s well being, ever again.
    Make sure you are getting a lot more from a man than what you are giving and make sure you are not abandoning your life.
    Don’t even look towards his bridge, don’t waste energy into jalousie.
    Keep it all to create your happiness.
    Because once a man reaches his goal, women who feel stolen hit a wall.
    His reality is HIS. He owes nothing to any woman.”

    The good news is that real men, good men are attracted to women who work for their own happiness. They want a woman focused on herself.
    That’s how life is fair for you.

    His reality is not related to your happiness at all.
    You can chose to accept it as it is. And to feel in agreement with your reality and accept and love yourself at last.
    Your thoughts are directly related to your happiness

    Chose them wisely.

    You can do it.

    xxx

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:14am

  3. 3: femenergyloveNo Gravatar says:

    i love this post…. :) ah i feel so free,not worrying about a man,where he is,what he is doing.he will show when he wants,and the key is express myself like irene :) till then i’m off for coffee with a friend :)ciao!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:15am

  4. 4: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel myself increasingly aware of when I’m leaning back or not even in every day interactions. I tend to feel insecure as a whole, like I need to make things happen. I was at a meeting at my church a few nights ago, and I just stayed quiet unless I was addressed, for the most part. For me, it was practice in leaning back, because I tend to be over-the-top initiating. :-D

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:20am

  5. 5: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    I love this Lone Plum!

    “Your thoughts are directly related to your happiness

    Chose them wisely.”

    This really really resonates with me.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:24am

  6. 6: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    From CCarter Newsletter

    “The reality is that you’ve gotten out of touch with what makes you happy, and that translates into one important result:

    You’re out of touch with your own NATURAL ABILITY to bring your man closer to you.

    The HARDER you try with a man, and the more you attempt to TALK things out with him… the LESS RESPONSIVE and “emotionally available” he becomes with you.

    Fascinating.

    But on a deeper EMOTIONAL LEVEL, a man has rarely made up his mind about not wanting to leave if you’re still close and he’s at all conflicted about things with you.

    Deep down he still has that same place in his heart that wants to connect with you and share what you used to share – and would want to do so again if things were “different” than they’ve become.

    After all, he felt strongly before. He wanted to be with you before things went wrong.

    What if I were to suggest to you that the best way to save your relationship isn’t more talking, or sacrificing, or convincing, or even criticizing?

    It’s figuring out how to INSPIRE your man by doing the things and being the woman that made him feel passionate about you in the beginning.

    The best way to inspire your man is to let go of the fears, resentments, over-functioning and general negative feelings that got you to this point in your relationship…

    And then learn to bring back that warm, feminine energy that drew him to you in the first place.

    if you’re able to make a critical psychological “shift” in the way you feel about YOURSELF and your relationship, the changes that need to happen are going to happen effortlessly and naturally.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:50am

  7. 7: ZDNo Gravatar says:

    Brenda, i know how you feel about the insecurities. I’m gad you are having success with overcoming that problem because it took me a very long time to admit it but I am very insecure right now and I dont feel good about it, so i am making a concerted effort to change that. I feel exactly the way you feel like you have to do something at every moment to make the moment work for you and the people around you. And i recall a conversation I had with my guy less than two months ago when i told him that i always try to make him happy. What he said to me really struck me. He said that in order to make him happy i just need to “chill”, he said “like when you’re just doing nothing except laughing at the silly stuff i say. I like that.” That was how it was in the beginning, he would just do thing to make me happy and all i would do was show how i felt about it- smile, laugh, show my sadness if thats what i felt. I never tried to control our relationship like i was an author writing our love story and he was an unwilling character. When i started doing these things he really withdrew. The affection man i kne who would try any and every thing to just try to put a smile on my face was no longer there and all i did was to keep trying to make him happy so that he would make me happy. And it was only when eh said those wrds to me that i realized that he wanted it the other way around. He wanted to make me happy and knowing that i was just there, enjoying the pleasure of his company is what made him happy. I need to let go and let him please me. Enbrace and show my feminine qualities within the relationship and just let him be the man. That way my insecurities will stop pushing him away. i never realized it but I really was too insecure to even receive love and I never knew that was possible.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 10:40am

  8. 8: ZDNo Gravatar says:

    The best way to inspire your man is to let go of the fears, resentments, over-functioning and general negative feelings that got you to this point in your relationship…

    And then learn to bring back that warm, feminine energy that drew him to you in the first place.

    – FW

    Thank you so much for this. I am learning to do this all over again. Hopefully i can make great strides on my own knowing that he is away for the next 3 weeks. I need to let go of my fear of losing him. i hav known this man for two years now and I agree that if he is still here he is very much willing to reconnect with me like we did in the beginning when I was the woman that he fell in love with.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 10:44am

  9. 9: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    ZD I force myself to lean back as I walk and when I sit, particularly with me. It is to remind myself to lean back always.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 10:52am

  10. 10: turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    This is a good example of how to ask for what we want without asking. I was struggling with this, and felt like I just couldn’t ask. It was leaning forward…. and doesn’t work. BUT, not getting what I want, they aren’t mind readers doesn’t work either.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 12:42pm

  11. 11: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    mmmh, interesting….

    I had this same situation as Irene with HA man. Although I never could express it and everything just fell apart – at least that’s my interpretation.

    The funny thing is that he would ask to see me. I felt shame, fear and disappointment that I hardly ever got weekend dates.

    This just felt weird and I felt all confused and twisted up and wondering if this man truly cared for me….

    Then when he’d ask to see me … well… I wanted to see him more… but actually felt that I saw him less even though he would ask to see me.

    I know, it all sounds contradictory. As Rori asks us to CD and not wait for man etc… I guess I would do that and so when he would ask it led to something like seeing him once a week on average.

    After the sex, I felt closer to him and that once a week was not enough.

    I guess I also wondered if he never made plans with me on Saturday night due to his tango, does this mean I would NEVER have a Saturday night date?

    I honestly can’t/ don’t feel okay with that.

    So I guess I hid my feelings … sort of organically processing and noticing how things would unfold….

    Anyway, don’t want to talk about this now. I’m feeling hungry and just want to sit with my feelings.

    I feel caught up in my throat and brick in stomach.

    Please feel free to comment Sirens? I feel stuck with this like I’m sending out mixed messages… I feel there is something to learn/ heal with this.

    I’m not done processing. In case he comes back or doesn’t, it would just feel good to be clear about my boundaries and whether what I was doing was pushing him away….

    Or, if he’s just a man who likes his freedom…. which, I’m okay with in many respects – just not when/ if I feel neglected.

    I guess I don’t want to feel like I’m longing/ yearning for a man when we are getting closer….

    It feels like being safe and unsafe at the same time.

    Ugh! Feeling very frustrated and powerless in this moment.

    Not sure what’s going on… feeling judgment around my feelings.

    Love to me!

    Love to all Sirens!

    xoxo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 12:52pm

  12. 12: LearningNo Gravatar says:

    I would like to know the outcome of this story. It sounds like a lot of leaning forward to me. While he responded well, I wonder if it actually changed his behavior beyond the one night.

    If he was already into her, than this is a great way to communicate. However, if he was on his way out, I don’t think this would have been well rcved. It would have not only seemed pushy, it would have been. But then I guess, she would have felt authentic, and that would have been ok, or she would have felt like she was being pushy and felt regret. Hard to tell.

    A lot of yous in what she said – and I thought yous were not ok

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 1:19pm

  13. 13: flowerNo Gravatar says:

    First of all, hi to all as this my first post , ive been reading the blog for a little while andve some of Rori programs, decided to post here as thats newest thread.

    I’ll jsut keep it short without saying what happened with this guy over all the months and last year i guess i can say that this is a friend zone and hes been coming few times after each time we break up and i mvoe back he comes , more in friendly way so at the moment i pulled away completely last week after the ‘break up’ (lets call it that, where he says he wants just friends and stuff) and ive been using feeling messages and luckily my life does not dpeend on him so physically it is the same with r without him but emotionally its the problem as i have feelings for him and hes been good guy just with issues

    and i thought he was always hoenst and good guy but im questioning it now as this is what happened

    I jsut came home, i went for short walk to psotoffice and supermarket and there..!!!.. i was opposite in the main street and eventualyl saw this guy with a baby trying to get my attention by tellin the little girl to wave at me!!!!!! and he was laughing that ;now u know what keeeps me busy’ and that this is his kid and then he was with a guy friend (black one, baby couldve been his mroe by the look as very mixed race looking but still it has similar feutures to shawn) and he made me look like an idiot in front of that other guy !!! i said i feel angry (i think i used that wor ..but now not sure maybe i said awful..cant remembernow) and he kept lauging (well it was more like laugh not like laughing at me more when ur uncomfy or hiding soemthing , at least it felt to me that what it was from him ) ing he wasnt laying just he doesnt say everything

    and he sayand then 2nd time i walked back home

    and to me he lied ! closer to time when imet him he brought that kids subject up at his place in his room askin me if i had any etc and i asked him if he had any he said no and he went on how he didnt want a kid running around him callin his daddy, that this wasnt for him, that few yrs ago yes but now no .How that is not laying??

    i asked where the mother was and he said ‘at home’ (wellt aht means not with him but dunno where)

    well ill be honest and ill tell u a lot of meni ever got attracted to had kids and at his age..well ti doesnt surprise as such but its that ive knwon him for nearly a year and he lied closer to when i met him that was that he didnt have kids and there ..

    well sorry about the long post, i am feeling so angry and upset and if even pisces men lie and behave like this..grr..i think best of single forever maybe

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 1:23pm

  14. 14: flowerNo Gravatar says:

    i can shut of my phone for him but i will still see him around town etc , so what do i do ?

    i know that if he comes at some point i will have a covnersation about hwo he made me feel maybe ill write a speach thing to be ready for that moment if it comes but for now i dont know how to treat him and behave like and i will feel tense for sure around him ..

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 1:28pm

  15. 15: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    I feel sick to my stomach when I hurt someone’s feelings.

    I feel sad, angry, irritated and confused being ‘told what to do’.

    I react by shutting the other person up and out. I raise my tone, which probably leaves them feeling unheard and belittled.

    I feel very triggered by a poverty mentality and lack.

    I intend to advance my life at lightning speed. I feel frustrated going the painfully slow route and a poverty mentality has me feeling small.

    I don’t want to be ‘advised’ within a limiting context – allowing for smallness, thinking and creating only more smallness.

    I feel so tired with this.

    I hope for a better future. I don’t want to hurt mum’s feelings when I’m resisting (regularly) her ideas/ thoughts of what I should do/ think/ behave.

    I don’t want a glass ceiling over my head, a cage to live in and iron bars around my heart.

    I want to be free, loving and open… my most authentic self all the time.

    How can I heal this?

    I’m feeling so angry – desperate and convicted in my beliefs/ attitudes and wants for myself and my life.

    I refuse to be stopped. I don’t want to be controlled.

    Unless someone’s views are expanding my life, I don’t want to hear it.

    Yes, that feels good. That feels like where my boundary is.

    I can handle this. I feel better…

    I am fully convinced and intend to unabashedly go for what I want and with speed.

    This is my new intention for myself and my life. I love my intention.

    I love me.

    I love my wants!

    I love, love and love and want more, more and more!!!

    Feeling good now :)

    Gnite Sirens!

    xoxo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 1:33pm

  16. 16: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 12 I kind of got that sense when I initially read it also.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 1:55pm

  17. 17: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Universe,

    I’m putting myself in the game. I’m going for what I want. I intend two thousand five hundred dollars to develop the visibility of my art form by Monday.

    Yay!! More power to me!! Thank you!!

    I don’t want to be invisible anymore.

    I’m loving myself. I love my wants! I love my fears!

    Feeling scared – what’s it going to take for me to achieve my intention?

    I fear my own greatness.

    Feeling afraid of not getting what I want. I love my fear, my shame my guilt.

    xoxo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:00pm

  18. 18: SusanNo Gravatar says:

    Flower ~ This guy isn’t taking you seriously. Shift your attention to a more interesting guy.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:04pm

  19. 19: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Man o man…….Steve was out getting his eyes checked today only about 5 or 6 miles from my house. His dying brother is at home with his ex wife while Steve is out. I told Steve last night that I was not happy that Ricks ex can come by and clean house and cook for them but I am not feeling welcome when I come by. Steve asks me such questions like…..how long can you stay or what time do you have to go? It makes me feel so unwelcome. So what does he tell me on the phone but “Cathy (Rick’s ex) came over and cleaned up the house good today.” Also Steve is just up the road, why doesn’t he just stop over for a half hour or so. I mean, couldn’t Cathy stay with Rick and extra few minutes so Steve can see me? Steve was already over half way to my house…..What to you think….anyone?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:10pm

  20. 20: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Jeanette!
    I’m sure I don’t have all the info and the nuances around this on-going situation, so take this fwiw. i just feel moved to say that if it were me, I would be more than happy to let Cathy clean and cook for them! Does she have more free time? Do you feel that if you are not being asked to cook and clean as much as she is that this somehow reflects on you in the present, or will be used against you in the future, or there is some other hidden agenda? Why do Steve’s questions make you feel unwelcome? Maybe he is showing concern for your time since you work so hard. It is not my intention to discount your feeling of being unwelcome. Apparently there is some reason for it.

    :-)

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:43pm

  21. 21: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, I told him last night that I feel shoved aside because Cathy is always over there and I’m not. Because he can’t come over here as much now because of his obligation to be with his brother, why wouldn’t he just want me to go over there? He once told me he is more comfortable here then there with me…It’s like his brother is jealous of Steve wanting to spend some time with me. It’s very confusing. So, Rick has been told he has no more then about 3 mo.s to live. It’s Rick’s house. Steve just rents from him. But why wouldn’t Rick just want his bro happy and know it before he leaves?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:48pm

  22. 22: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Jeanette, also, re: the last part about Steve stopping by for a half hour, perhaps you could take a shot at tweaking the message that is given in this blog post into something you are comfortable with. Conveying to Steve that you’d like him to initiate saying that he would like to see you, and be more assertive about asking if he is in the area, because it would make you feel great to hear that.

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:48pm

  23. 23: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel excited!

    wrote out speeches to use for phone call with ex husband. made sure they were all authentic feeling messages, no blamey pushy vibe and asked what do you think and just let him talk without interruption. wow his tone changed, he actually listened and we ‘communicated’ for the first time in so long! i’ve never tried RR tools on him except walk away and no contact.

    I’m emmigrating! I’m going home! I have the papers I need for the kids and I’ve accepted the job!

    I’m anxious about talking to R now when he gets back from rehearsal. He was home early today from work and when i talked to him he was so understanding and supportive but kept telling me it will be ok even if we’re not together for a while. i felt bad hearing that. I’m hoping we can find a way to go together. I’m going to use all my focus to lean back and let him do what he needs to do.

    I’ll be ok. I feel good.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:49pm

  24. 24: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    This is a good blog post…it should be just that easy to talk to a man. Its time for me to get back to the basics, I’ve been procrastinating when it comes to practicing and learning and its biting me in the butt now. I haven’t seen Techie in two weeks…it seems like he just always too busy for me. *sigh* Circular dating does make all the sense in the world when you’re waiting anxiously all day for this one guy to call you. He really does seem to like me a lot but living an hour away and him always being busy doesn’t help. He knows we’re suppose to see each other today…I know he was at his sister’s graduation, but it’s now 4pm, he knows I have to take an hour and a half train ride to get there, and I haven’t heard anything from him. I feel so disappointed and frustrated.
    God….what folder did I save that eBook to….

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 3:53pm

  25. 25: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, why would Steve even call me from the doctor’s parking lot if he knows I would like him to come over? It’s like he’s teasing me….grrrrrr!!!!!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:00pm

  26. 26: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Jeanette, it seems like Steve is not able to cope with the added stress of having you spend a significant amount of time with him at Rick’s house, for whatever reason. Pressuring him about it will just add to his stress. I think It’s not about Rick though. It’s about Steve having better boundaries to stand up for the other people/things in his life that are important to him, and carve out time for just you and him. while still making sure that Rick has adequate care.

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:03pm

  27. 27: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    25. Jeanette,
    I don’t know. Maybe he felt pressured to get back to Rick’s house for whatever reason, but wanted to check in while he had a free moment.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:05pm

  28. 28: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    hmmm…sometimes I want to “tell my truth,” but reaching out to open up the conversation feels a bit like “leaning forward.” Do we have to lean forward in order to say what’s true for us, to lean back?

    Or is it like when the old saying – the way forward is sometimes the way back?

    Do I “lean back” and “wait” for a man to initiate when I really don’t think he’s going to? I hate waiting and I hate feeling like I am “on hold,” even if, to him, there is quite possibly nothing going on. which makes me think, well, then I’ll have to get out there and tell him. Or I could lean way, way, way, way, way back, and just keep doing what I’m doing – focusing on other guys. On myself. On taking care of me and doing what makes me feel happy. I do think he will contact me. I do believe that he’s thinking about me. He’d have no choice. Because I am just that amazing, and he knows it. He can’t help it. And the more I don’t contact him, the more he is thinking about me and wondering about me, and trying to figure out what to do or say to start a conversation with me again. Yeah, that feels good. He can pursue me. I give him permission :)

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:17pm

  29. 29: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    I feel angry…I don’t want to be reading about dating or anything to do with the opposite sex right now. I want to go to sleep and forget all about Techie and the Banker and any other man who has ever let me down…including my father…I think that’s one reason I expect too much from guys, because I need someone to stand in where my dad let me down. I just wanted Techie to call when he said he would though. I think I fell too fast for him, again.
    I know I’d be better off circular dating. I’d do better than doing things my way. But I don’t want to try it again. I feel scared at the thought.
    I feel so depressed.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:20pm

  30. 30: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    Here’s a fun conversation I’ve been having with my ex.

    We went for a lunch date a while ago. I told him he was welcome to date me, as long as he was aware that I would be dating other people. Next thing I know, he’s on the same dating site that I’m on, checking out my profile, and presumably looking for dates. I waited a while to see if he’d call. He did, to wish me a happy birthday, but no dates.

    Then I sent him a note. I said, “I think you misunderstood. When I said I was going to be dating other people, what I meant was that we would not be committed and exclusive to start out. If you are dating other people, then I am going to assume that you are not interested in dating me.” (paraphrased somewhat)

    His response: “So, it sounds like you’re saying you can date whoever you want while we’re dating, but I can’t?”

    Me: Yup! :)

    Then, even though I knew it didn’t need any explanation, I did say that I knew it sounded awful and unfair, but that’s the way it was going to be, because he’s sure he wants to date me. But I’m not sure I want to date him. So it’s okay for him to focus on me while I decide. So I let him know that when I was sure, then it would become “exclusive.”

    I don’t know what his response will be to that, yet. But I honestly don’t care, because I am not invested in a relationship with him at all. I wish I could feel this about some other guys! lol It always seems to “work” – even though it’s the opposite of a strategy.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:27pm

  31. 31: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, that’s exactly it. No matter how much I would like to see Steve, he says, “Well I’m pretty much stuck here 24/7.” In one email last week he wrote, “I am going to try and get over more often…..hopefully.” But he’s too timid to say, “Hey guys, I need to get away to see Jeannette, now who can be here Sat. for a few hours?” He just takes what ever befalls him…passive like. And just calls me….really the only thing that bothers me is why in the hell can’t he just say to Rick, “Hey, I need to see Jeannette, now if I can’t go over there then she just will have to come here sometimes.” It’s like he’s afraid of Rick or something.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:34pm

  32. 32: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    31.
    ooo, yeah, Jeannette, this is a bit tricky. I’m pretty sure you don’t want to carry the masculine energy in this rel, but it seems like it’s almost hard not to. It would be difficult for me not to say something like, what are you, a man or a mouse? ;-) but he probably doesn’t need to hear that now. Things seems to have fallen into a predictable pattern. Maybe you should just disappear for a while and not worry about him or Rick or anyone but yourself, hard as it might be. Or at least let him initiate everything, i mean everything. And see what he does, what he says. Perhaps he feels somewhat inadequate, and if you don’t do any thing at all, that might give him the incentive to step up. What do you think?

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:45pm

  33. 33: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, He just called and I said, “Steve, why did you call me from the doctors nearby if you weren’t stopping by?” “Well, I can’t stay away because I never know if Rick has someone there with him..” Dahhhh, call him and find out! Right??! Well, I didn’t say much on the phone and I think beginning tomorrow morning I won’t send him my usual email before leaving for work. What the heck?!! Let him do ALL THE INITIATING……

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:51pm

  34. 34: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    33. Yes, sister, I would do everything in my power to not say a word….

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:57pm

  35. 35: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, it’s just when he calls me now I’m pissed….I don’t even talk much…..they are having a party at their house Sun. for Rick and I don’t even know if I want to be there…..after all I don’t feel real welcome any other time….

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:57pm

  36. 36: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    How to talk to a man.

    Make him think everything is his idea.

    :-)

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 4:58pm

  37. 37: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    35. yeah, this is not good, Jeannette. my suggestion: take a breather, create some distance, plan to visit a friend out of town, something, just get the heck out of dodge for a while. This is all too co-d.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:00pm

  38. 38: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, oh but he thinks I am attending the party….should I just call him Sun and say I’m sick or something?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:03pm

  39. 39: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Well, about the party….you have to weigh out if not attending a significant event such as that would create more damage, and perhaps wait til after the party. It might seem too drastic not to go to the party. OTOH, if you really don’t want to, then don’t go. I wouldn’t say I was sick though. I might try to approach Steve by tomorrow, and say something like, “I’m not sure what is happening for me, but I feel so unwelcome at Rick’s house lately that I can’t even see myself coming to the party. Can you help?”, something like that.
    What do you think?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:06pm

  40. 40: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Ah, I think I will just avoid the drama queen stuff and wait until after the party. Maybe just stop emailing and letting him do all the initiating for the time being. I have to remember Steve has cancer and is ailing too so I need to exercise a little compassion but at the same time be good to me too. Maybe just not hang on him at the party either. Know what I mean?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:09pm

  41. 41: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    40. yes, that sounds good to me, Jeannette.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:12pm

  42. 42: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Elizabeth, have a good evening!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:15pm

  43. 43: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    you’re welcome, Jeannette…for me it helps to always remember that I have options.
    you have a nice evening, too!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:21pm

  44. 44: AmazingMeNo Gravatar says:

    This is my serenity here with you sirens when I cannot lounge and think at the “happy place”…The Beach:) I love being with my feelings and reading about your feelings. Most of the time I just come in and read quietly without a word. It is so therapeutic and nice to see women and men in this case are so different but our stories compare. Sometimes I read things and get triggered but it is all a learning experience. I never come here or leave mad. It’s what you take from it and how you apply it. You hear this is how you do this and this is how you do that. I think GOSH, who cares!! Well obviously I do because I am here reading. I am sorry to ramble, just wish it was all a little easier to understand and actually incorporate into my own life. I have been taking small baby steps. Well the most important is making my happiness. I am studying for a big test that I am actually taking a break from to write on here. This test is my licensure for nursing, these boards are no joke. I have my eye on the prize and one day at a time I am getting there. I do not have time to involve anyone new in my life. Confusion, chaos, I love my chaos, of course us drama queens do :P How I would love someone to adore me and cherish me and look at me and say “Now, That is an amazing woman” Wow I feel vulnerable saying that or even typing that on the blog. This is my secret place that I find peace and that I have the ability to express my thoughts, heartache, and happiness without judgement. I am my own worst enemy sometimes, You guys ever feel that way? My mom told me that once and it just kind of stuck with me, triggered me, because she was right.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:22pm

  45. 45: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    No agenda,

    Just be and experience.

    I am going to try that tomorrow.

    :-)

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:28pm

  46. 46: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    This is what’s on my agenda for tomorrow:

    I’m going to have no agenda.

    OK, ok…..!! ;-)

    xxxooo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 5:34pm

  47. 47: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I want to lean fwd with all of my cd’s today. Being on my period, I usually feel vulnerable. I have a first date with a younger man this weekend. Looking fwd to it. But wanting to lean fwd today and ask if he is still on for meeting but date isn’t til Sat. It’s Thurs now. Lol

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 6:22pm

  48. 48: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Lone Plum @2

    This is it pure and simple , nuts and bolts. A beautiful descriptive piece about jealousy , about a woman’s choices in creating her life and mostly about HOW to make her happiness using Meemee’s example..so true .
    You are so very gifted in insight , analysis and explaining things.

    I hope every Siren reads this three times over then takes a hard look at the choices she is making.

    I just did. I see that I was resentful of my ex husband when we were married because he didnt focus on my happiness, my career, my climbing up the ladder..he focused on his own and left me to it. He resented me greatly because I was automatically higher up that ladder career and socially when we met. He was jealous. He was competing .

    He wanted me to be like his own Mum , fully supporting his dad , working herself into the ground in the family business while raising kids and being everyones cleaner , cook and slave.

    But he got me, not his Mum. I was very angry with him for years over role confusion and I think he was even angrier..he just went cold and silent.

    After the divorce is when he got nasty , and even wrote an email last year (8 years after separating) scathingly abusively labeling me as a bad mother, selfish and leading the “high life” etc etc..*(Now actually he took the majority of our assets at divorce but I created a lifestyle he envies and was always there for my kids which were in my care 50% at his insistence. I have wonderful kids .)

    The thing is he was SOOOOOO Jealous of me and my career and the life I carved out for myself and I never knew that . I see it now in a different way .

    I feel sorry for him. I was his ticket to “success” and he didnt know he needed it till the marriage was over.He lacked breadth of vision to make moves to be as successful himself.

    Meemee I am wondering just how envious X is of you now, AND how much more he will be when 10 years along he hears of your wonderful success and sees the joyful life you have chosen instead of the mean and dishonest streets he tried to drag you down?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 7:02pm

  49. 49: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Jeanette , I am wondering about Steve and his adjustment to having liver cancer himself and what you have said about his own uncertain future.

    I am thinking Steve may be coming to grips with his own mortality through this time with his dying brother.

    Because he cares for you Steve may not know how to deal with YOU in this time. Especially if you have not discussed his own illness and likely lifespan at length, ie come to terms with Steves disease and possible passing, then possibly Steve is not READY to look at that yet, but is trying to get there.

    Possibly Steve doesnt want you to SEE this death up close , doesnt want you to be exposed to a “rehearsal” , along with all the fear of nasty physical stuff, abandonment, rejection and loneliness .

    Quite possibly these sorts of thoughts totally overwhelm and confront Steve when you are there.
    Or else he is just pushing them down, stuffing the fear for his own survival so that he can just be there for his brother. Having you there forces confrontation of the FUTURE.

    These are all guesses at possible thoughts and emotions he may be feeling.

    My only suggestion is a frank discussion with Steve about HIS own feelings about this passing and how it makes him feel about his own cancer and his future.
    Could he be trying to protect you from difficult truths?

    From your own point of view I think having that discussion could be very painful but healing. It could also require you to confront your own thoughts and feelings, name them and express them.

    I have never had a partner die , but I have had cancer and treatment for it and I have had family members pass from cancer. I know there are many things I have learned and the learning is a process that unfolds like a bud opening.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 7:20pm

  50. 50: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 29 Lercomari sorry to hear that but after all I have learnt here and in my own life I have to unfortunately say that I am not surprised. You mention your father and I also have to tell you that my experience is similar. Can I invite you to join with me in healing the stuff around the father thing? It is not easy but two articles back Loneplum wrote to me about that same issue. I am not sure I can do what she suggested but I am committed to taking care of myself and loving my little girl inside me.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:05pm

  51. 51: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 23 Kyla I am so happy to read that. Just use your mind to create the best outcome all round. Just believe it will work out.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:09pm

  52. 52: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @Femininewoman 50

    Thanks, I am feeling really down and alone right now. Thanks a lot for your words. I think Techie standing me up hurts more because I also heard from my dad today…he’s always trying to be my buddy and act like he wasn’t an abusive lowlife the whole time I was growing up. I feel angry and resentful whenever he calls. And then I heard absolutely nothing from Techie today…even though he promised yet again that we’d see each other today. Even though I saw him on Facebook and he had the time to post some articles on his wall before logging out. But he had no time to call me to confirm our date that I had my hopes up so high for.
    The dad thing…whenever a girl grows up with an abusive or absent dad those wounds run very deep. I’ve tried to deal with the wounds before but honestly I don’t know how to now. I guess its up to me to learn. I hope you learn to heal yours too.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:11pm

  53. 53: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 19 Jeannette I think Steve is doing what he wants to do. Maybe he does not want you to lose yourself in his affairs and for you to get on with your life and happiness.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:12pm

  54. 54: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lercomari every time your dad calls is an opportunity to take a baby step and maybe share how you feel. Him calling is him sending his energy towards you. What I get all the time is criticism now and the last time it hurt so much that I have decided I am not going to stand in its presence any more.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:15pm

  55. 55: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 52 Always have a back up plan. Techie is showing his true colors now and might actually be busy but you have to be clear if you are okay being treated like this because I believe it will happen again.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:17pm

  56. 56: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @FeminineWoman 54

    I’ve tried to let my dad know how I feel but unfortunately he’s an egotistical and manipulative person. He will rarely admit if he is ever in the wrong, and the last time I tried to share my feelings about how he’d hurt me he defended himself vehemently, and in the end just offered a half-hearted, backhand apology. I remember crying after I hung up the phone, and my husband-at-the-time lecturing me that I shouldn’t have called him in the first place (He wasn’t a very supportive person). I accept that he’s a toxic person but I just wish he would stop trying to contact me. I’ve been through enough trials in my life, much of it at his hands, and I don’t need anymore hurt.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:20pm

  57. 57: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @ 55
    Yes it’s happened before. The first time he had to meet with a client, the next time he had to go out of town to see a friend who is moving out of state, then he had a work project, and now this time I don’t know what’s going on. I’m not okay with it. I don’t really have back up plans because I don’t go out much or have any friends in the area. I’m trying to build a social life but its taking some time. I feel like I should have waited until I was more well rounded for me to try to meet men.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:24pm

  58. 58: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Don’t want to go over to his side… What is he thinking?

    His business his business.

    How am I feeling. Is this a good time? Hmm

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:24pm

  59. 59: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lercomari he is a man. If you blame him for hurting you he will naturally defend himself. He apologized. It is not something most men do easily. It seems to me you are pushing him away. I wish I could get an apology from my dad. Yours listened to you.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:27pm

  60. 60: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    I give up on men and relationship, as no matter how many e self books /blog will help me feel less hurt :(

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:28pm

  61. 61: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    I love this blog post but feeling messages do not come easy for me. I would love to use the above on SexyOlderGuy but am scared for the same reason that Irene was. And I have no future plans to see him so I can’t lean forward just to use the messages. I did see him last weekend and he talked about seeing me in the future but no definite plans.

    As for my other CD’s, I am seeing Poker Player tomorrow night – he is really stepping up. I am excited to see where this goes.

    I have been talking every day to my No Job Guy. We decided to not make any decisions about not seeing each other. He knows I am dating someone else but he says he doesn’t want to give me up. He is stepping up to but it makes me nervous. We are seeing each other on Saturday. He is probably the sweetest man I have dated and the one I feel most comfortable communicating with. Wish I felt better about the no job thing though.

    I am going to try and practice those feeling messages this weekend. Wish I felt more comfortable with them.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:29pm

  62. 62: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lercormari back up plans could even mean languishing in a warm bubble bath, then painting your nails.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:30pm

  63. 63: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 61 Do you feel secure with a man who can provide for your financially? Do you want a man who is grounded in a career and building a life for himself?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:33pm

  64. 64: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    FW – I don’t need a man to take care of me financially but to me it seems like he is not grounded. Maybe it is my stuff that I shouldn’t be projecting onto him?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:37pm

  65. 65: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @FeminineWoman 59

    It wasn’t really an apology for what he did, after 20 minutes of back and forth he said something like, “I’m sorry you took what I said out of context.” When I didn’t. I’ll give you the background:
    My dad has a short temper and he was very religious. He would find reasons to “discipline” us often (i.e spanking) and also he was verbally abusive too. This caused a lot of harm to our family (I have five siblings and they’ve mostly cut off contact with him). When I was pregnant with my daughter, I decided I would forgive him for the past and try to move on so I would have a good relationship with him and also my daughter would too. And it felt good to let all the anger go. But on the day I was in labor, I was on a gurney about to be wheeled in to surgery for an emergency c-section. My dad came into the delivery room and I thought he was there to comfort me, but instead he started ranting about how I should have chosen to name the baby after his sister. I was really confused. But that’s all he said to me before walking out again. Come to find out, for some reason, he was arguing with my mother about the name issue in the waiting room (they’re divorced). Fortunately my mother stood up for herself and shut him down about it. So, his ego wounded, he came into the delivery room and started in on me.
    It was a very hurtful time. I didn’t even see him after the baby was delivered. He left the hospital and didn’t come back. Then I called him and tried to explain how hurt I felt that he wasn’t there for me. I told him, “I was about to go into surgery and you were just complaining about the baby’s name.” but he defended himself, saying that my husband shouldn’t have asked him for name suggestions if he wasn’t going to use his suggestion. And then the half hearted apology. After that I decided I would never trust him again.
    I saw “The Wrestler” with Mickey Rourke the other day and I can really relate to the wrester’s daughter, because she forgave her dad and then soon after he let her down again. She said, something like “There’s no fixing this, and I’m okay with that,” even though it really hurt her to say that. I feel the same about my dad. I just want to do like she did and tell him that I never want to see him again. I would feel bad for doing that though. But a part of me really does wish he would disappear.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:38pm

  66. 66: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I was fortunate enough to be asked to help out in a unit at work where I have to work closely with 6 men one on one. It is giving me a lot of practice talking to them so they can hear me. Today I was deliberately critical about a work process but I did it in a way that was not blamey so no conflict resulted. I am practicing being in the moment and joking with the guys. I find they are very attentive to me even when I just go over to where they are and just stand there without saying anything. I am grateful for the opportunity to practice. Now I have started to practice softening my heart.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:38pm

  67. 67: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    If you don’t need a man to take care of you financially then would you be okay taking care of him?

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:40pm

  68. 68: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    can someone help me understand why I dated someone for 3 months. Then all of a sudden he avoided my calls after his status changed to in a relationship with some gal on FB . After I asked him what we are, he said bf n gfs…

    He never called me back …and when I try to call him he always said will call back. So i left him alone and then he txted and said he is now exam very busy and have dinner later!

    any advice would be appreciated sirens/divas thx

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:42pm

  69. 69: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lercomari he is a man being scolded like a child by both his daughter and wife. It must have left him not feeling good enough and abandoned. His suggestion about the name was an emotional bid for connection with you. He must have experienced your response as rejection. I am not making excuses for him. All I am saying is put yourself in his shoes for a second and try to see how he must feel. You see you are still blaming him for things that happened in your life, read that post again. If you do that it will come out in your conversations with men and in their minds they will replace your father with themselves and see you doing that with them also. It is something I am coming to grips with now too but I am trying to give him empathy. I acknowledge the rejection but have become phylosophical about it. He was doing the best he knew how. Once when I was talking to a date about my experience that is exactly what he said to me. I acknowledge that he was right and that I was just sharing my heart not blaming my father.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:48pm

  70. 70: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    No, I would definitely not be ok taking care of him.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:48pm

  71. 71: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie he is showing you that when you lean back he leans forward. Do nothing lean back and take care of yourself.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:49pm

  72. 72: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Neither would I T Girl and though I don’t need someone to take care of me financially I dream of having a relationship with a man who wants to do that because it helps me feel secure. I guess what I am suggesting is exploring what you actually want because it seems to me that you are not 100% clear around that.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:51pm

  73. 73: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok. Was able to talk about my boundary yes.

    Still feeling low ever since the other night.

    Just feeling kinda bad needy unwanted.

    Afraid of always feeling criticized. This person is always jealous of me. What to do if this cones up? Does not feel good.

    I do this competing thing.

    :(

    Just like the feeling good. Not the feeling bad.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:51pm

  74. 74: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    T girl : thx for your advice, just I haven’t finish my story .

    I bumped into him last night and we just chatted and he said he would call me later.

    So after I just call him to say what a small world, the phone was not picked up. This morning i saw him online and told him we can be friends as you are already in a relationship clearly not with me. He said goodbye and still can be frds. But i expect more respect from you and deep down I want to believe you are a nice person and not my wrong judgement of character…

    he not reply since…

    i think his way of telling me its over by avoiding my calls and pretend will call back. But I still can’t help feeling like crap and hurt …

    what to do to make me feel better

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:57pm

  75. 75: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    ZD,

    Re: #7 – Thanks! Sounds like you are handling it well interacting with your man in a feminine, leaning back way!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 8:58pm

  76. 76: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    Today was tiring but productive! I got a new phone, cuz mine was on the blink. I needed new contact lenses, because one of them was worn out and uncomfortable on my eye. I didn’t have to pay for them! They gave me a sample pair for free!

    Four women from my church came over to help me pack! Most of my house is now packed! Tuesday will be my main moving day, I think. Not sure how it’s going to pan out. I’m concerned about being left with a loaded moving truck and no one to help me unload it!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:00pm

  77. 77: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Pond stirring. Nvs. I am a blob of sadness. I am a puddle. Feel smily.

    Feel panicked gripped in tummy that not so many men have bern contacting me online.

    Used to be a couple new ones everyday, lately much less.

    Feeling low. Feeling bad about myself.

    Feeling angry.

    Riff time can help.

    I love my bent over sadness.

    And that feels like.

    Upside-down smile

    I love my usidedown smile.

    And that feels like big breath.

    I love my big breath. And that feels like. Small smile.

    I love my small smile. And that feels like big smile.

    I love my big smile. And that feels like more smile. I love my more smile and that feels like huhuhuhum and big breath.

    I live my huhuhuhum and big breath.

    And that feels like smile hehehem. I love my smile hehe hem. And that feels like big sigh. I love my big sigh. And that feels like. Sad and melty. I love my sad and melty feeling.

    And that feels like heavy shoulders. I love my heavy shoulders and that feels like small smile. I love my small smile and that feels like hehehem. I love my giggle. And that feels like hmmmmmmh. I love my hmmmmmh and that feels like smile. I love my smile. And that feels like more smile. I love my more smile. And that feels like even more smile. I love my even more smile. And that feels like cheese smile. I love my cheese smile and that feels like big breaths. I love my big breaths and that feels like smilyness and burping hehe. I love my smilyness and burping hehe. And that feels like sigh of relief and big smile. I love my sigh of relief and big smile. And that feels like more smiling. I love my more smiling. And that feels like blankness. I love my blankness. And that feels like sigh. I love my sigh and that feels like tingly gums. I love my tingly gums and that feels like (pause)

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:07pm

  78. 78: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    I guess having someone take care of me financially would be nice. When I was married we didn’t have a lot of money to play around with and always seemed like we were in debt. So maybe that is why my No Job Guy scares me a little bit. Poker Player on the other hand is taking me to the finest restaurants, has a very stable job and seems to enjoy the finer things in life. I have never had anyone like that. I just need to be careful to not like him for that reason only.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:38pm

  79. 79: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    65 Lercomari, Wow, that is a powerful story about your father. I have felt inclined to take this view about past relationships with men, “there is no fixing this, but I am ok with that”….but when it’s your father,,so difficult, a whole nother story. I know it must be painful for you. I like what Femininewoman said in 69, that what he did in the delivery room was his way of bidding for an emotional connection with you. It was bad timing, and remember men don’t understand what we go through in chilbirth, etc…they just don’t. It sounds like he just didn’t know how to connect with you…not saying it was the right way at all…but it seems like he does care about that connection since the name was so important to him…just my thoughts.

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:54pm

  80. 80: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    76 Brenda-how nice of the ladies from church!!! That is awesome. I will say a prayer that you have help unloading the truck. I have faith that you will.

    Do you like your new place?? I feel excited for you and your new chapter!!

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 9:58pm

  81. 81: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    A man asked me on a date and I gave him my availability for a weekday not the weekend.

    I’m noticing how I’m creating this weekday dates and not paying attention to my boundaries and how I truly feel.

    I feel more important, cared for and a priority in a man’s life when he makes time for me on the weekend.

    I feel relaxed going out on any evening, however, I just believe that something extra special is going on during the weekends. I want to be a part of this and share in the fun with a man.

    I felt not a priority to HA man when he never asked me out on the weekend. Ok, not never… once he visited me in the Coast over the weekend and a few times on Sunday.

    But never Friday or Saturday.

    Saturday he has tango… but they also have it on Tuesday… and he didn’t invite me.

    I don’t know why…. but at the same time he attends religiously. So could be love for the dance obviously, but also it’s the social aspect… and I’m like wow, you don’t EVER invite me. Got me all twisted up….

    He was willing to teach me tango, which I felt really good about… but we never got to that point.

    The point is, I don’t want to make excuses for why anything…. It just feels icky and confusing to never date the man on the weekend even after being intimate.

    Feels like I wasn’t valuing myself.

    Anyway, I didn’t even know how to communicate with him about how I was feeling….

    And the weird part is that if he did not want me to CD then did he really expect that I would be sitting at home waiting for him every weekend.

    This just makes me feel so sad. He wasn’t that into me or whatever…. But whatever, I feel better now knowing this and having more control over my time.

    It feels better to look at time as weekends first, then if I want to do something in the week I can. Also once I feel safe, secure and cared for by a man, I feel okay about extending my weeks to him.

    Weekday dates are also ok – with men and women and all… but not exclusively weekday. Then that just feels bad.

    Sirens and sailors, what do you think?

    Is there any validity to my thoughts on the weekend date vs. the weekday date – or is it just me?

    Thanks!

    xoxo

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 10:38pm

  82. 82: DENo Gravatar says:

    Feeling pretty low on my vibe lately…:(

    Dancing the past month has been fun….but my classes will end soon …the next step it’s too expensive…however, i admit it’s been the best decision ever for myself…:(

    My trainer is cute…sometime it feels like he flirts with me…last week he handed me a book of Rumi…it is a special book to him…with special memories…I felt special he share it with me…

    Gosh, sometimes I am like a high school girl feeling confused ab whether a guy likes u or not…:(

    Anyhow, tonite he called cause apparently my hair brush fell out of the bag…I thanked him and also thanked him for sharing kindly about his children…He answered “of course, we are buddies…”…Arghhh…My ego took a stroke…lol

    Anyhow, my vibe has been pretty low overall in regards to men…
    I haven’t been out on a date in over five weeks…I didn’t feel like being online no more…same old, same old…removed my profile all together…

    I went out my gfs…interesting dynamic lately…although, we have no problem drawing in men…lately, they don’t offer to be generous at all…it feels as if they are mesmerized (really) by us since there are other hot women around…yet, they are like honey towards us…it’s like they don’t know what to do …weird…the only change I’ve made is no longer initiate conversations or going on “competition” of showing off my “brains” etc…but rather just be…”fluid”…practice i guess…

    I feel lonely and a bit afraid I will always be this way…although, I am now working on Calling On the One book…Awesome material and so mind opening…

    I have a long list of desires in a man :( NVs keep remind me to “take a grip” and be “realistic”…:( Yep…It feels awful…

    Mood swings…up and down…

    Oh, and running into my ex bf’s “business woman” and apparently “lover” doesn’t help with my mood…

    I noticed feeling anxious and afraid when she is around the studio and I have to share a dancing room/table with her…yet, it’s not her fault…she appears a nice lady…

    I wonder always if she knows who I am…it’s all possible is all in my head …:( What am i fearing??? That she would share ab her “happiness” with him…or wants to know what was between him and i…etc…Yucks…shivers down my spine…:(

    A hot bath with some lavender oils…and a good nite sleep feel ideal…:(

    Good nite …

    Thursday, 19 May 2011 @ 10:54pm

  83. 83: MeemeeNo Gravatar says:

    Loneplum
    Thanks.
    That post was deep and dense.
    I am reading and re reading it.
    To understand that completely and I am letting it sink into my thoughts.
    It is helping me.
    I am taking time to understand (not literally but in a larger scheme) the depth of your words.
    I am taking it slow.But I am taking it.
    Thanks for the encouragement- I feel confident that I will be able to do it.
    Love you loooooooooooooooooots
    Meemee

    PS: These days when I talk to my friends when my friends talk to me about X and his dirty politics at office, I often use a lots of insights that you gave me. I often find myseld saying “As a friend of mine told me……….”. I hope its not a intellectual copy right violation. :) :)

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:04am

  84. 84: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Feeling smily.

    I love porn. The porn I’ve been watching feels empowering and worshipful of femaleness. And that feels so good.

    I love EFT the Erika way. That is the Daria interpretation of the Erika way. It seems to shifty beliefs without effort or doubts on my part. That feels really comfy clean and reassuring.

    I love that I feel flexible and juicy and smooth, that my legs are smooth and soft.

    I love that I shared my boundary clearly with Getright man.

    I love that I feel smily and peaceful.

    I feels sad and needy thinking about ‘getting’ sex. Or how I haven’t been out on a date in awhile. No one wants to date me – this is not true.

    I want tomorrow 5 guys to plan on coming to see me. Attractive men that I feel excited to date.

    I want to show off my status of how awesome I am due to my man being awesome.

    And then what?

    Then I feel peace.

    I feel comfy sinking into my feminine.

    I can ‘ok’ sinking into feminine then.

    And I want to ok it now.

    I feel shaky and scared and sad thinking of getright.

    He made some comments that didn’t feel good. I felt bad I felt wordless. I felt powerless.

    And now I feel confused, I don’t remember them clearly.

    It felt bad and I felt bad.

    And I choose to feel excited to notice that. :)

    Babysteps are great. It was great to notice I felt bad and to know, it means nothing.

    It doesn’t mean I’m still not good at standing up for me.

    It doesn’t mean I can’t be around getright.

    It doesn’t mean no matter what he will drag me down.

    It doesnt mean if I were a stronger woman I would be respected more.

    It means nothing.

    None of those are true.

    Message is: noticing is awesome!

    Flipping is awesome.

    I am awesome.

    :)

    And it doesn’t mean I’m weak or betraying myself.

    Just means there’s an intense feeling pattern that gets triggered.

    I feel ‘invisible.’. That doesn’t feel good. I feel angry.

    I feel scared I feel sad.

    I want to be seen I want to be loved! I feel shocked and betrayed when someone I care about says something about me that doesn’t feel good. I don’t want to experience that.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 2:32am

  85. 85: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    All men will eventually turn into him, or into my dad. Eventually they will start to rag and wear me down. Compete w me.

    This feels bad.

    This is not true.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 2:34am

  86. 86: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    My ex husband stepped up! In his way. He told me the best thing he could do for me and our children was to let us go and be happy. That seeing how good I’m doing raising them on my own with no support or money has made him feel completely useless and resentful and angry with himself and that now he feels like he can do right by all of us by giving me this opportunity. I felt teary when he said that.

    I talked with R and he told me that he is certain about me, certain that i’m his girl and certain that he will always be with me to love and support me and my kids and then took me in his arms. He said he’s so happy for me that I got this offer, its no more than I deserve and all the goodness I deserve is finally catching up to me. He wants nothing more than to care for me and make me happy everyday and that’s what he’s going to do. My job is to look after me and the kids and his job is to make our happiness and welfare his number one priority.

    I still feel doubt and fear and nervous. I know I will be ok and I trust everything is happening for my best outcome. Right now I feel like I have it all and that feels so scary! How silly is that!

    I love my silliness!

    I feel excited and nervous
    feeling giddy!
    that feels like wobbly limbs and butterflies in my tummy

    I love my giddiness and wobbliness :D

    Leaning back, open hands, stay in my body, just let go and be surprised…. mmmmmm that’s better…. trust and let go….

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 3:24am

  87. 87: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    Emerson,

    RE: #80 – Thank you! I will be staying short term with my friend in her basement, which has a jacuzzi in it! :-) It is just while I get on my feet, but, yes, I like it. I really enjoy her company, and that is the part I like best.

    It is two hours from my home area, and I don’t want to leave this area. All my other friends, family, and church are in my area. So I will return in a few months.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:23am

  88. 88: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    Queenbee,

    RE: #81 – I kinda feel that way, too, about weekend dates. It feels so good to say, “I’m going out Saturday night!” That is the stuff dreams are made of! :-)

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:24am

  89. 89: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    Men are so annoying. If only they weren’t so handsome and wonderful! Then I wouldn’t like them so much! Darn them! LOL! :lol:

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:28am

  90. 90: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla I loved how you said “in his way”. I feel happy for you.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:36am

  91. 91: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you FW!
    I feel really proud of myself. This is a big step for me :)

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:05am

  92. 92: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I thought this short piece from Carol Allen’s report on Arnold and Maria was interestingly similar to Rori’s overfunctioning concept.
    The next one working against them is called “Misfortune.” When the challenge of misfortune shows up in a relationship, it makes the couple have a hard time feeling secure and safe together.

    And, not surprisingly, it especially makes the woman feel unloved and unsupported in the relationship (which is what was rumored to be going on with Arnold and Maria.)

    The next challenging factor is the issue of “Respect.” When this step of “The Right Man Report” is off, it makes the woman feel that the man isn’t truly there for her, isn’t thinking of her, and isn’t as bonded to her as she is to him…

    This is underscored by the fact that the report goes on to say that Maria would “work too hard” in the relationship to please Arnold, knocking herself out to do whatever he wants.

    So, all indicators seem to point to the problems all causing Maria to be the one to most suffer…

    She’s rumored to have felt neglected by Arnold and “miserable for years” (according to that pillar of journalistic integrity, TMZ).

    And that is what the stars would indicate…

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:06am

  93. 93: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 91 Congrats. That feeling should be cemented in your psyche/unconscious so when you might be feeling low in the future you can go back to visualizing how you created this moment and feeling.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:08am

  94. 94: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mel I really hope yesterday went well for you. I am assuming it did.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:09am

  95. 95: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #86 So glad that this turned out well for you and the kids, Kyla! This must be a huge relief for you. It shows that your ex is still one of the good guys, no matter what other flaws he may have. Be nice, too, and tell him how much you appreciate his positive attitude. We guys like a positive feedback every now and then, too!
    :-)
    And it may be a good idea to tell him that he kids will stay in contact with him (Skype is a great tool for shrinking the distance) and will visit him, when possible. Don’t forget, he sure has some fears and sad feelings about that move, too! Everybody will profit from keeping this good atmosphere.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:09am

  96. 96: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #94 “Mel I really hope yesterday went well for you.”
    Right, FW, me, too! I hope no news means good news. Here’s thinking of you. Mel!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:11am

  97. 97: DENo Gravatar says:

    Well, this morning I woke up to this interesting message….has anybody else gotten something similar? it looks like spam to me…

    here it is

    **********************
    This article link was mailed to you by: lizzy_god@yahoo.com *
    The sender included the following message:

    Hello ,My name is Lizzy, i saw your profile today at(havetherelationshipyouwant) and became interested in you, i want you to send an e mail to my email address so i can give you my picture for you to know whom i am and tell you more about myself I am waiting .(Remember that distance or colour does not matter but love matters a lot in life) reply me with your email address .Thanks Yours in love,Lizzy.”

    **********************

    I didn’t know Rori has a dating site…or does she???? lol

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:21am

  98. 98: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @Emerson 79
    Thanks for your input…I understand what you are saying. It’s just that I’m past the point of giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s burned too many bridges already, including treating my husband terribly when we first met for no good reason. One could say it was his way of trying to protect me but that’s the way he handles unfamiliar or uncomfortable situations…getting defensive and/or attacking. I never want to go through that again.
    On another note, I’d like to ask for advice about what to do about Techie. We had a date yesterday but he didn’t call me all day to confirm when he would meet me. I called him twice but he didn’t answer his phone. I know he at least had internet access because I saw him online on Facebook. I instant messaged him late last night on Yahoo messenger asking him what happened. I tried to avoid contacting him before he contacted me but I felt really angry, seeing as he has had to cancel on me in the past for work reasons and it had been two weeks since I’d seen him. He told me it was a long story and he would tell me when he got home (he was using the messenger on his cell phone). It was late though and I fell asleep before I could talk to him again.
    I’d like to know how to handle this situation? I’d like to believe that he has a legitimate reason for not contacting me all day, though I have to consider that maybe he was just being an inconsiderate prick. My mother is telling me I should not talk to him and let him be in the dog house for a day. But that doesn’t feel right to me. And advice would be appreciated.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:30am

  99. 99: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    DE – definitely spam!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:31am

  100. 100: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #97 “i saw your profile today at(havetherelationshipyouwant)”

    Sured looks like spam to me, DE! And, what profile? Afaics, you don’t have a profile, are there any “profiles” here at all? Did you post your email addy in the comments, maybe? I didn’t, so far, and probably that’s the reason why I didn’t receive that mail.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t klick on that link! Even harmless looking file types like .jpg or .pdf may contain malware. It depends on security loopholes in the apps that are used to open those files. Depending on your OS and software installed, this may “work” or not, but why run a risk? Let’s always be careful with such unsolicited emails.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:33am

  101. 101: DENo Gravatar says:

    Yes, thank u T-Girl and Lurker!! I agree…I think i posted my email once, a while back…

    Warm hugs,

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:39am

  102. 102: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I got one of those emails too and thought it was from someone here. It certainly did not go to my spam folder.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:57am

  103. 103: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 98 Lercomari In my humble opinion whatever you do with your father you will eventually do with Techie because it is your little girl inside that would be running the show. She is stuck somewhere way back with the hurt she felt from daddy. My suggestion would be to work on yourself with Rori’s tools otherwise you will continue to repeat this pattern and result until you heal yourself. Techie is just helping you beat up yourself through your unconscious.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:59am

  104. 104: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 98 I like your mother’s advice but it should be until he contacts you. He is doing what he wants to do maybe because he is feeling pressured by you?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:05am

  105. 105: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    Re: 98 Femininewoman,

    Thanks for your advice. You make a lot of sense. Should I just stop talking to Techie then? I feel at a loss as to what to do about him.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:09am

  106. 106: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 105 Lercomari the point is that you should be doing nothing. Rori teaches that guys are supposed to be coming towards us. Once we start going towards them with the phone calls, IMs, emails (anything initiated by us) it could come across to them as us pursuing them (masculine) and it eventually pushes them away. My recommendation to you would be to get Rori’s book from wherever you have stored it and start reading and work on her tools to build up your self-esteem. Guys come and go in our lives, getting hooked any one particular one is setting up yourself for repeated hurt, unless he steps up and starts offering you the relationship you want.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:15am

  107. 107: LercomariNo Gravatar says:

    @FeminineWoman 106 Thanks a lot. I’ll spend the rest of the morning reading the ebook.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:17am

  108. 108: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I would also recommend reading through the blog and people’s comments. You will notice a trend where guys come in our lives for a while and then disappear, then sometimes come back. When the ladies ask if they should reach out and contact the guys when they go absent the overwhelming majority of people here say no. I am sure you will remember that as the advice you got regarding the banker.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:23am

  109. 109: DENo Gravatar says:

    Lercomari:

    I sure know the feeling(s)…frustration, anger, sadness…etc…

    Don’t ignore them…embrace them…go in all the way…and bring them out…Vampire scream feels good to me …and then making peace with myself saying:

    “I am sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you”…Say it constantly for about 1 to 2 minutes…

    I would also look into the “residual” feelings from an experience such as this…e.g., he doesn’t follow through, doesn’t call, etc…I would likely feel “not good enough, rejected, unloved, not worthy…” I would EFT these feelings because if not healed they will come up again and again…

    Learning to sooth ourselves and heal these feelings is a must…the blog does that for me along with all of Rori’s tools…

    When we learn to self sooth, uncaring men will come less and less (at least that’s my experience as far…)…

    Warm hugs,

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:28am

  110. 110: KSNo Gravatar says:

    Yep…..I got the creepy email too. Ewwwwwwww

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:41am

  111. 111: MochaberriNo Gravatar says:

    @ Femininewoman – I enjoyed the post from the CCarter – I’m experiencing that right now – in limbo and unfortunately I was the one who brought us to this place. I feel that my over-functioning comes with calling him daily out of guilt and the fear is that if I don’t call he’ ll think I’m doing something and if I do call we end up arguing. What to do?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:52am

  112. 112: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    I’m having some trouble with this myself. Well, first of all, I have been with my boyfriend for 2 years. We have talked about marriage, and that whole bit, and he also gave up going into the service and a far away internship because he did not want to be away from me for the summer. We go to seperate colleges, and our semesters just ended a couple of weeks ago, and he took an internship close to our hometowns so he could still be with me. I know that that definitely says something. However, he says he wants the vibe between us to be different this summer. Meaning, he wants everything to be mutual, like we’re a “real couple” by being a team (taking turns paying for dates, taking turns initiating plans, driving to see each other, etc.). He wants to prepare for when we move in together after we’re both done with college, doing things as a team. In the past, it has been him paying for everything, and making all the efforts, and he calls this moving to the next level in our relationship by getting out of the whole “dating” vibe, and going into the “real, serious couple” vibe, if that makes sense.Which I’m totally fine with. I have no problem with that at all. However, last night I confronted him because I asked him if he wanted to accompany me while I meet up with a friend I haven’t seen in a while. This is a friend of the opposite sex, who used to have a crush on me, and we agreed that if we were ever to meet up with a friend of the opposite sex, we’d go together because it would be more comfortable. However, he declined the offer because he said he planned on playing tennis after work like he did the day before. I became a little upset, and told himI was feeling a little dissappointed with the way the summer is starting out because we haven’t been able to spend time together all week, and here comes the weekend, I invite him along with my friend and I, and boom he already made plans. He reminded me of the “mutual relationship” whosiwhatsit, and I said that’s fine, but I just tried to make plans and you declined. What is that? He said, “well then you should have made plans with me”. I told him that it was ridiculous that I have to “make an appointment” way in advance in order to make plans. Shouldn’t Then he said that he didn’t want to meet this guy and it just wasn’t something he was interested in.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 8:55am

  113. 113: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    ahhhahah. My Ex tells me that my “terms” are not “acceptable” to him, because me wants me to be “faithful” to him and committed to him up front. He wants me to “compromise.”

    I told him that his terms were not favorable to me, because he wants me to commit without him proving himself as a good partner first. So I said, thanks but no thanks!

    Not only do I not need him, but I have other men knocking on my door (literally) and offering to do things for me that I need. I don’t have to accept all their offers; all I need to know is that I am desirable. And any man who really wants me is going to step UP to the challenge of “getting” me – not step down, all the while blaming me and criticizing me for past actions and events, which are irrelevant.

    I say he’s proven himself, all right. He’s proven himself for being exactly what he is. which is, not worthy of my love and attention.

    And I feel good.

    For being exactly who I am – wonderful, beautiful, goddess-like, sexy, worthy, and deserving of THE BEST.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 9:20am

  114. 114: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Brittany it is his time to do whatever he pleases with it. I understand that guys want things to be their idea for them not to resist. I personally don’t like to be told or have other people obligating my time and then telling me about it. It is something I have struggled with my sister over the years. She has a tendency to make plans and just inform me of them and I always tell her to volunteer me or schedule my time for me. Unfortunately I can see where he is coming from. All I can say is if you want this relationship, please bear in mind that it involves two people that has to be on the same page. He is indicating to you what works for him. He might also be experiencing your planning his time as disrrespectful. It might be more healing if you come from a place where you can work this out together rather than me versus him or right from wrong. He is not necessarily wrong.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 9:58am

  115. 115: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #113 Uh, Tmizz, I’m not surprised at all that your rules, as stated in #30, are not acceptable for him. Let’s look at them again:

    “His response: “So, it sounds like you’re saying you can date whoever you want while we’re dating, but I can’t?”
    Me: Yup! :)”

    Well, sorry, but what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. You can’t expect a guy, especially a masculine guy, to be exclusive for you while you reserve the right to date as you like. Imho the overwhelming majority of men will tell you that this goes against their views of fairness and their own self esteem (I certainly wouldn’t accept such a one sided “treaty”).

    So, I dunno if those boundaries are helpful when CDing. A minority of guys may go with this, but are they the “target group” you have in mind?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:07am

  116. 116: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 112 Brittany I would also suggest working with Rori’s program to help you to speak and be the way that works for most men.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:11am

  117. 117: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    #23 – Kyla, Congratulations!! I feel all warm reading this.

    xoxo

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:14am

  118. 118: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    (I posted this on the other thread earlier in the week.) Five months ago my old fiance and I re-connected on FB after 20 years. He insisted that he wanted to see me, and last month he bought a plane ticket to come visit me.

    Then he stopped all contact 3 weeks ago. He’s due to come here next week. I haven’t contacted him at all to find out what happened. I’ve leaned way back, but I feel left hanging and in limbo.

    I feel so sad and blown off.

    UPDATE: Still no word from him and he was due to come here in less than a week. Now I’m feeling angry and disrespected.

    Do I just go on as if nothing happened? Since I reserved my holiday weekend for him, and he bought the plane ticket, do I contact him to ask if he’s coming or leave it alone?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:14am

  119. 119: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so frightened about relationships right now. My emotional state feels frighteningly similar to how I was when I met my ex-h. Grieving. At that time I was grieving the loss of my baby to adoption. Grieving produces a unique type of vulnerability. Now I am grieving the loss of the fantasy/fairy tale/dream of WH. So I am afraid I will do a repeat of my marriage – falling for someone whose apparent warmth and kindness is “enough” even when many other things are missing. Oh. Strange, my adopted-out

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:23am

  120. 120: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    baby’s birthday is this Sunday. I hadn’t connected that before. I wonder if it has an effect. She will be 26.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:25am

  121. 121: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #118 Hmm, imho, this situation requires that you send a message, stating your boundaries, Terry. That guy shouldn’t expect you to welcome him with open arms after he has been incommunicado for weeks. However, I’m not sure if that is in line with Rori’s advice, and I can’t think of a Feeling message that doesn’t, at least implicitly, puts the blame on him. Something like:
    ‘I feel very uncomfortable about your visit, since I haven’t heard from you for over 3 weeks. Pls do not come here without contacting me first.’

    Imho this is an extraordinary situation that necessites some clear words about your boundaries. After all, you don’t want him to believe that you’re so needy that you desperately want to have a date with him, no matter how much he misbehaves.
    Hmm, what do the Sirens think about this?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:30am

  122. 122: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 115 Lurker I believe they do when Cdating. That is the point of Cdating to have as many as comfortable in the rotation. However, if one steps up as in LD’s case and ask for exclusivity and we are comfortable and feel good with that person I am not convinced that telling them that you are CDating will keep him hanging around. But choosing exclusivity have all kinds of traps that cannot be seen or planned for initially. The way I understand it is you reserve the right to Cdate when he is not stepping up and offering you what you want or you are not convinced that he is your one. It has a context for me and cannot be applied in a vaccum.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:33am

  123. 123: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 118 From what I understand this is how guys behave when they want to keep it casual. I don’t see any problem with him coming to visit Terry just that he should be told he has to stay in a hotel. Letting him in your home would be communicating comfort and acceptance of a casual hook up. I feel he is not deliberately disrespecting you, he is doing what he wants to do and would normally do in such a situation. The question is what are you willing to accept? What did you commuicate to him that you want if anything from this relationship? What type of relationship is he offering? What did he say?

    Him wanting to come just means he wants to spend time with you, nothing more.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:38am

  124. 124: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #123 “I feel he is not deliberately disrespecting you”
    Not? FW, if I understand this correctly, the purpose of the visit is to see Terry, that guy doesn’t have any other business there. Now, not to contact her for one week may be impolite, but we guys sometimes are that way. But more than three weeks, with less than seven days left until the arrival, and no message yet? That sounds a bit strange to me. But, ok, maybe I’m not the typical male ignoramus, I dunno…
    :-/

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 10:49am

  125. 125: MelNo Gravatar says:

    FW & Lurker,

    My anniversary was nice. Thanks for asking! I met him at his work (he actually turned down a last-minute assignment just as I was downstairs waiting for him in the lobby. :) )

    We went out for dinner and then relaxed together back at home.

    This weekend we will probably do something fun together when we have a bit more time.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:00am

  126. 126: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I am sure you expressed appreciation for that choice he made. Thanks for sharing that with us.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:05am

  127. 127: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 124 No I don’t think you are that Lurker. You maybe thinking about it from the perspective of this person being someone special to you. In this case he disappeared for years so I have difficulty accepting that he sees her as that special. In my mind he is more special to her that she is to him. As Rori teaches he is not in front of her so he does not exist. I guess that might be how guys think also. If he is not wanting to be with her his mind is not on her. If his mind is on her he would contact her. Where I am today given that scenario if he contacted me I would go oops I thought you were off the planet so I made other plans.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:09am

  128. 128: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Terry I can understand you feeling angry because of his actions but disrespected puts you in the position of a victim. In other words him doing something to you that you have no power over. It is also blaming him and holding him accountable for your happiness. Rori teaches to find out what makes you happy and go for it. Take yourself out of the victim position and create the happiness you want. He is only one man and there are many more out there. He cannot be given consent to have so much power over you.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:19am

  129. 129: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    I still feel like deleting him off my skype.

    It honestly feels bad when he comes on and says nothing. I haven’t seen him for five weeks. We had that date and were intimate, then he went on vacay without me, I ignored him during my birthday, then he went to Europe for 10 days, came back, I texted him and now it’s two weeks and no word.

    I still feel my body going into over-vibration when he comes online.

    I feel ready to be done. I’m thinking… why am I here? And I’m not even coz ‘he doesn’t exist’.

    I would feel more powerful if I just delete him and get on with my life.

    That feels better to me. I don’t want all this drama.

    If he ever wanted to contact me, he has my email and phone number. That is sufficient. Doesn’t need to see me online or know when I’m on etc.

    Ick! Ugh! and Gross! I’m soooo fed up!

    I don’t even know what kind of man he is –
    -doesn’t want me to CD
    -doesn’t take me on weekend dates
    -goes on vacay without me

    I’m really fed up. I don’t even care about the outcome. Let him do whatever he is going to do. He is certainly not the last man out there for me. So what the hell, I’m over it and just want to be done.

    mmh, *sigh* – I’m gonna do it.

    It’s just what I want to do for me. It would feel more powerful.

    I don’t care anymore about being emotionally available or not.

    It’s just whatever.

    I’m available to those who are available to me.

    Yeah, wow! that feels so good – like my best line ever – Wow!

    Now, that feels powerful.

    xoxo

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:32am

  130. 130: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Glad you had a great anniversary Mel!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:39am

  131. 131: ginaNo Gravatar says:

    Brittany,
    I wouldn’t feel good about this whole “partnership” thing. I don’t want the feeling of being pursued and cared for to end after “dating”. Maybe the issue is that you don’t feel good about how ya’ll haven’t spent time together lately. Maybe Rori’s Post could help inform you of how to communicate about what’s really bothering you….? what do you think?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:44am

  132. 132: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    queenbee – I’ve deleted men I felt too hung up on, even while I was still seeing them. It didn’t feel good to get all triggered everytime I saw him. He eventually got back in contact w me, and then was back on my list, then he started contacting me eveytime he saw me on

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:44am

  133. 133: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    My online is back and poppin! Woohoo! Gracias EFT!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:52am

  134. 134: QueenbeeNo Gravatar says:

    Even if I didn’t do blah, blah, this and that – I want a man who can understand me. A man who can just relax and not make things about me or him. Just whatever…. knowing that I just love him. Accept me for who I am. Laugh with me at my mistakes and give me a hug when I feel sad. Allow me to be vulnerable even if I have to blow my nose and my mascara ends up on his Giorgio Armani shirt – big black patches, lol :) – and be okay with it.

    This is what I need – omg.

    So here goes, I’m walking away. I don’t want this! I don’t want to be here.

    Hug to me!

    Love to me!

    Love and hugs to me from all the juicy men around.

    I’m in my Siren vibe and the yummiest pie around :)

    Hello healing and bliss

    So happy and excited!!

    Here goes… I’m doing it…. done :(

    I feel sad. I feel hurt. I feel let down.

    It actually feels better. I feel tingly in my wrists and my heart centre open up. I feel open in my throat and my eyes tearing up… feelings flowing from my head through to my heart and my wrists.

    I feel good. It feels better …

    It does. I can finally breathe and I feel relaxed. Just sinking in and allowing myself to just be….

    The thought of not having that name pop up on my screen again FEELS SO GOOD!!! LOL :)

    I’m burning pics from my ex-bf tomorrow – stuff I never got around to.

    Clearing out clutter – lol :)

    xoxo

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:52am

  135. 135: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    I’m sorry, but I can’t help how I feel. He had a special place in my heart years ago, but not now.

    I don’t look upon him as special – my time is special. The trip was and always has been viewed as nothing more than an old friend coming to visit. He booked at a hotel, too. I told him I felt uncomfortable with him staying at my house and he was totally fine with that.

    I don’t feel comfortable contacting him, because our last contact was me answering an email of his. He said he would call me and he didn’t.

    He’s traveling over a 1,000 miles (if he’s still coming) and I feel rude making other plans or leaving town if he’s still planning on coming.

    I feel a bit defensive. My original question wasn’t answered.

    124 Lurker, thank you…what you said is exactly how I felt.

    128 I feel over-analyzed. I am CDing. That’s not the problem. At this point, if someone asks me for a date next week, then I’ll accept. Again, that’s not the issue here.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:07pm

  136. 136: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 134 Queenbee I feel like you are writing there about a man I kicked off my horse in January of this year. He had an ex who never seemed to go away, many times I felt drained after interacting with him because he was so feminine energy much of the time, and there were times when I felt blamed because of how much he used “it is your fault”. For most of the time we laughed easily with each other. He would come over and shovel snow without even indicating he’s coming or my asking; I would just look outdoors and my place was shoveled and he would be gone. No call nothing. We shared our dreams of our life and how we both wanted to get married. I was not physically attracted to him but felt in my gut I would be settling with him if I agreed to move forward. I believe he was very into me and if I had opened up he would have taken it to the next level. I could not reconcile how I would deal with his crazy ex. He was very good at helping me to deal with my flaws, insecurities and quirks. I felt totally comfortable with him. I saw him this past week and he is now married and after I initially got over the initial trigger of seeing him I totally relaxed and was joking around with him. I felt totally open and willing to connect. I found myself wondering with a mutual friend what the heck would I do if he asked me to marry him, yes I was worried about that.

    My main obstacle with him was the ex. I could have overlooked how draining he was on my energy, he talked a lot and kind of went in circles. I learnt a lot from him but just felt he was not my “one”. This experience taught me that so many things could seem right, feel right but in my gut if I pay attention I might get another message. I admit it could be fear of intimacy thing because he showed he was willing to step up big time. I was just not happy with how I felt about the draining energy and the ex.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:09pm

  137. 137: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 135 Sorry if I misunderstood Terry. Just sharing what I thought I saw in the comments and suggesting that yes you go on as if nothing happened. Please ignore if my comments are not welcome.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:11pm

  138. 138: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lurker this is from the Why is He Ignoring Me Article:-

    If more thoughts about him come into your mind – let’s go with a standard procedure:

    1. When the thought “Why is he ignoring me?” comes up for you — flip it to “I have no idea what he’s thinking about. I’m making this up. So I’m going to make it up good. I’m going to make it up that he’s thinking about something that has nothing whatsoever to do with me!”

    2. Now — check into your body again. How are your shoulders doing? How is your belly doing? How is your tummy doing? How are your hips doing? Are you clenching anywhere?

    3. Focus on breathing into parts that feel tense.

    4. Now as each new thought comes up about him, track through your body, and say out loud – if you can – how that body part feels.

    Yes, I know what you want my advice here to change something about his behavior. You want me to come up with something clever to say to him that would open up communication.

    And the truth is, until you can get in touch with yourself, and out of the rut of the why is he ignoring me thought and into the possibility that there are way more other possibilities here — if you approach him now it’s going to be filled with tension, need and desperation.

    It’s going to be very unattractive, and it’s going to push him away.

    And do you really want to do that if his only issue is that he has a hangnail?

    In other words you can make a problem where there is none!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:35pm

  139. 139: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    137 FW, aww thanks. I do appreciate you taking the time to comment. What I normally do if a guy doesn’t firm up plans within a reasonable time, is that I go ahead and make other plans. His loss.

    This trip situation is different. He’s not local. Since we mutally agreed to him coming here, I was just wondering if it’s considered leaning forward if ask him if the trip is still on.

    I guess I’ll just wait and see. ugh…

    Thanks again for your input.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:38pm

  140. 140: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Terry you’re welcome. Where I am coming from is with an experience of a guy in one instance giving reasons why he can’t. Then at another time, he tells me I don’t care. Seeming like he would move the world to get what he wants. He told me once I look at life and hold it by the neck to shake out what I want from it. With that in mind I believe guys can commit and they do what they want to do and go after what they want when they want it. They are on a mission and will not allow you to take them off. This guy might have forgotten his promise and I would not like for you to be planning your life around his words when his actions aren’t lining up with his words. So it is not about you and I understand from Rori to go for my happiness no matter what. If he shows up at the last minute and I change my plans around for him the possibility exists that I could be teaching him I am the “take me for granted” kind of girl. Am I overanalyzing? Maybe but my heart, happiness and life is my priority. So he comes second. A lesson learnt the hard way for me but one well learnt.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 12:56pm

  141. 141: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Overall Terry I sense you are in a very good place on your bridge from your comments. What I want for you is for you to stay on that bridge to your happily ever after. This guy is just gravy popping up from your past as you stand in the presence of true love for yourself. He might be a mirror of what you used to take but now that you value yourself more you will hopefully attract better quality guys. It is my hope for myself.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:02pm

  142. 142: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Lurker – Rori actually does advocate a siren being able to date other men when her man can’t decide if he wants to be with her or not. If the issue is “are you my forever woman?” then clearly he has some deciding to do. A siren must allow him his space to come to a conclusion–but how can he come to a conclusion if his thinking is clouded with other women? A siren, however, may then exercise her option to see other men a) because she KNOWS she wants him and b) to keep from focusing overly on him while he decides if she is the one he wants.

    There’s a psot in here somewhere on that…It might be in the “not your girlfriend” speech post from way back.

    It was eye-opening to me too. But it makes sense. Why does he get to keep her on a string–do I want you? Or do I not? And then he gets to date too? Uh uh. What would be FAIR is for him to tell her whether he wants to be with her. What is NOT FAIR is stringing her along in the endless girlfriend role when she knows she wants him in a committed, exclusive, life-intended relationship.

    Now, if he can’t deal with that, then he really does NOT want her, and there’s her answer.

    Sirens, let me know if I am misrepresenting Rori here. But that is how I understood it.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:12pm

  143. 143: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Terry, if it were me…and this is just me…I would call. If he did not answer, I’d leave a message. I would probably be fairly business-like about it, although not cold, and say the last we talked, he had made arrangements to come. I have other plans pending, and if he is not coming, I’d like to know.

    Alternatively, you can always just make your mind up that whether he comes or not, you are making other plans, and he’s welcome to assimilate into them if he’s here…or not. I’d be inclined to say “not.”

    I would not accept this rudeness from anyone else, so why would I accept it from a man? But then…I’m not always very Siren-y ;) Ask anyone on here.

    This is not about “he’s a man” and “you’re a woman” thing for me. He’s a person who is not following up on some pretty big plans.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:16pm

  144. 144: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Awwww. IndyMan texted me today to tell me I am gorgeous and that I am on his mind.

    That feels so goooood, and I told him so.

    He said he’ll keep saying it until he thinks of something more fitting, because even “gorgeous” is not enough to describe me.

    Yay me!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:20pm

  145. 145: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #142 “Rori actually does advocate a siren being able to date other men when her man can’t decide if he wants to be with her or not.”
    That’s how I understand that, too, Boomer, that’s not my point. But where does it say she should expect the guy not to date other girls, too? If a guy isn’t at the point yet where he has decided if he wants a LTR, what’s the point in pushing him away with onesided demands? Expecting that the guys will be exclusive, while the Siren dates several men is not how I understood the CDing issue. But I may be wrong, of course. You are the experts on this.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:22pm

  146. 146: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lurker it is not a demand. It is her telling him what she wants to keep in her life, sharing the options she is choosing for herself. It’s his choice to be exclusive for himself. Guys know women get hooked in. They have learnt that from experience.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:28pm

  147. 147: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    Gee, thanks everyone! I appreciate the kind words and opinions. I feel the need to quiet myself and de-stress this weekend. I’ll give it until Monday and see what develops, if anything.

    Btw, he already bought his plane ticket, because he sent me all the flight info when he bought it over a month ago.

    I hope you all have a fabulous weekend. Thanks again!

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 1:44pm

  148. 148: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    147 Terry

    That’s odd.
    What if he died or is at the hospital?

    I never heard of a friend coming to visit and not saying hello at all during 3 weeks previous to his trip. Even male friends among them. The trip is within a few days, that is really strange.

    I would call him, because he is an old friend, not a date.

    I would write down a feeling message before I dial his phone number, to leave on his voice mail in case he doesn’t answer the call.
    I would speak in a light tone of voice, so he feels safe that he can answer the call, because my voice indicates I am not on drama queen mode.
    I would say “I am quickly checking if the trip is still on. I am not sure if you are used to keep quiet before a trip or if something has happened to you. It would feel better to hear from you so I know that you are doing well and also to know if I keep saving this weekend for you”

    I would also write down another message for the possibility he picks the phone up and tells me he canceled the trip. I would say that it is his right to change his mind, I understand, but it is not all right to let me freeze my holiday weekend for him when he knows it is canceled… I would say I feel deceived that he has no more respect for himself than that. After all he is entitled to change his mind, he should never be afraid to state it. And I would wish him good bye and I would end the call.

    xxx

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 3:28pm

  149. 149: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you FW and Boomer for the Siren support!

    Lurker – #145 it actually DOES say somewhere in Rori’s stuff that it is NOT okay if he wants to date other women. YES, it sounds unfair, but in actual practice, it’s not. Because he would date other women anyway, which we would actually NOT do, if we followed our impulses. We date other men to keep our heads level, to not fall so quickly for one man. And even then, it sometimes doesn’t work.

    Of course, if I am just meeting someone for the first time, then I am not expecting exclusivity. But if someone is indicating to me (as this person has) that they are truly interested in me, then, as I said to him, I would not expect him to date other women. Because that would be showing me that he is not serious.

    What I am also understanding, however, from your comments in #115, and his response – as well as past experience – is that there is a very shifty balance here, when it comes to letting a guy know about your dating plans aside from him. On the one hand, I think guys relish a kind of uncertainty. In the beginning, they may actually enjoy it (and you can confirm or deny this, or plead the 5th) when they can’t be 100% sure that the woman they are interested in is dating just them or could be seeing someone else. I had one past boyfriend joke about my “other boyfriends” when I told him I was busy one night. It kind of put me in a pickle. Because I knew he’d be offended and angry if I *was* seeing someone, and yet I didn’t want to overly reassure him that I wasn’t. And that’s the shifty balance. Because maybe not quite knowing what’s going on with the woman will make him work hard to make sure that she *can’t* see someone else (because she doesn’t have time). But on the other hand, if he actually knows that she is seeing another person – or even multiple people – that can activate his jealousy and even maybe make him feel less “special” or like less of a man, because he is not “enough” to please her. Am I getting this right?

    So, for us, this is where it becomes really tricky. Because we want and NEED to keep those options open to ourselves so that we don’t commit to someone before they have proven themselves to be the kind of partner we want and deserve. But on the other hand, it can be really hard to communicate this in a way that doesn’t make us show up as “non-committal,” “wishy-washy,” “uncertain” or even – heaven forbid – slutty. Those are all possible interpretations that a guy might have. But those might also come from the man’s own insecurity. The correct interpretation – if we’re doing it right – is that we respect ourselves. We have boundaries. We have standards. And we want to be able to CHOOSE what is right for us. Including the man and how he treats us.

    As bad as you might feel, as a man, about this double standard, it DOES work in your favor. Because in the end, if you stick with her and show her that you are serious, and she chooses to be with you, then you know that she’s really chosen you and that it matters. Not only that, you will respect her and value her infinitely more than if she just said, “Ok!” when you said you wanted a relationship with her.

    I hope that makes sense.

    p.s. Boomer – that’s great to hear about IndyMan! :)

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 3:30pm

  150. 150: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    Here you go, Lurker. She says it right here:

    http://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/commitment/you-can-circular-date-but-he-cant/

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:14pm

  151. 151: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Also Tmizz Lurker must have missed that you said you were speaking about an Ex that was trying to come back. He disappeared for a while and you haven’t been really dating him. He seems in my opinion to be back in my opinion just trying to protect his territory and lurking in the background just in case anyone else steps forward. This is how I read what you wrote in #30.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:41pm

  152. 152: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I should have added if you “put” him in the x category you must have for a good reason for doing that so you know the drama he comes with.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:43pm

  153. 153: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    You know who (A) wished me a happy birthday again on my wall. What should I do? Just put ‘like’? Or comment on something on his page? Or any other suggestions, dudes and sirens? I want to seem warm and open, but not scare him off with overfunctioning.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:48pm

  154. 154: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    112 Brittanny

    I wonder if anything happened that made him not go to that internship and/or he thought of personal reasons independent from you, but he makes believe he made the choice specially to stay with you.
    The 50/50 bothers me.

    In any case, independently from the drastic change in your relationship, I think it is better generally to tell people that you will check with your fiancé if he is available such day at such hour. I would not set a meeting date in his name before I checked with him if he is available. Nobody likes to be booked without knowing it.

    Apart from that, I would make sure he knows what marriage is about. And I would hand him a dictionary opened on the page “team”.
    What you are describing about the tennis on week end evenings without you knowing about it, and the date with your friend he refused, sounds like he is NOT a team with you, he acts independent from you, planning his week ends evenings on his own and choosing only what pleases him, not you.
    You don’t want him to treat you 50/50 like if you were another man when it suits him, and to use your female functions when it suits him.

    I would ask him what does “team” mean for him in a marriage.
    And what will be his contribution in the family basket when he wants you to pay 50/50 and court him 50/50.
    You would be giving half of the financial aspect, exactly like him, and half the physical effort to go to him, half the time necessary to make plans, half the logistic effort to keep the relationship going etc… so, given you would be filling the family basket 50/50 on a daily basis, what will be his contribution to equate your contribution when you create his descendency with your body, when you feed his descendency with your body (breast feed)?
    How does he plan to give half your health back and half your body back exactly as it was after each baby?

    Seen from here, you would have the same life living with a female friend and having a baby with a stranger or a laboratory: you would be bringing money and babies into the home where the room mate would be bringing nothing to you, other than paying half the rent and his own food..
    I would ask him what will be his contribution in the family basket to justify I chose him and not another man to create my family.
    What is his contribution as a man in his 50/50?

    I wonder if he is planning to give birth with his own body to half his descendency and give his family-name to the children born from his body.
    In the name of equality you would give YOUR family-name to the other half of your descendency, the one born from your body. After all, you deserve to have your name remembered throughout history too, not only him. I mean, in the name of equality, since equality is his issue. And you deserve your body being saved from dishaping and from pain too, not only him.
    I wonder if he is planning to take a leave at work to take care of the babies while you keep stepping up at your work to pay your half of everything?
    Does he pay half the contraceptive pills, half the material when you have your periods, directly related to the creation of his descendency, etc… half the doctor appointments and laboratory analysis to check your health under the pill, which is directly related to him having sex with no restrain, no responsibility. How would he give half your health back if you develop a heart condition or cancer from the contraceptive pill?
    What does 50/50 mean in a marriage ??????

    xxx

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:49pm

  155. 155: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    ugh why can’t he take things beyond fb. you know, like CALL me. maybe because he’s still 3,000 miles away? i don’t know.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:49pm

  156. 156: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    kaitlyn I would show appreciation by saying thank you.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:50pm

  157. 157: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 155 Kaitlyn I have read from another coach that you should think of it like someone taking a hot dip. He will put in his foot a little at a time. Checking the water to make sure it is not too hot. One toe in first, then another then another. Until he is sure that he is safe to put his whole body in. Give him time to keep sending his energy towards you. If it come fully eventually you will feel even more wonderful because you will be sure this is what he wants.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:52pm

  158. 158: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    What I would give to feel him in again. Heh. Angels in my mouth.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:54pm

  159. 159: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 154 OMG Loneplum. I have to wonder if you are a male or female your logic continuously astounds me. Do you believe guys are so used to negotiating that they see our weaknesses and use them because we are unaware.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:57pm

  160. 160: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 158 kaitlyn I am sensing a needy vibe there. I am sure that is not the energy you want him to feel.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 4:58pm

  161. 161: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 158 Or is that you feeling turned on in your body?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:00pm

  162. 162: CasandraNo Gravatar says:

    My boyfriend broke up with me about 8 months ago. He said he “doesnt like relationships” even though he “still loved me” he said things could change but not to wait. We didn’t speak for 6 months and thenhe pops up as if nothing happened, i was so chuffed i just accepted the fact i was still hurt and angry at him, so we could be ‘friends’. We started seeing eachother more and more and then its like he just dissapeared, its like he only speaks and tries with me when it suits him, and theres no one better. Im so confused. He blows hot and cold all the time. After reading this blog and the website, its clear that i was chasing him away. And i definitely need to improve my self-esteem and confidence. I just dont know where to start. I don’t know what to think? Does he still have feelings for me, or does h just want attention?

    I feel so low its unreal.. all because of 1 man!!! Im so angry with myself for feeling like this.

    Im lost

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:04pm

  163. 163: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    161 It was a pun on Praire Girl’s slogan. Turned on feeling in my body.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:04pm

  164. 164: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 159 Reading that again Loneplum I realize it might come across as negative. What I meant was because I get so caught up because of my emotions I wonder if that is why I don’t see some things that might be obvious to the logical type of person. My belief is that men are mostly logic while females are most emotional.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:05pm

  165. 165: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    FW #151 – Yes, and it is also possible (though I don’t know for sure) that he may believe that, since he has dated me before, then he automatically has the right to assume that I would be exclusive with him right off the bat, which isn’t the way it happened before. Maybe he doesn’t feel that he should have to work for it now. But more than a year has passed since we’ve been dating, and I am in an entirely new place now than I was then. I would guess that many changes have happened for him also. But more than that, even, I have serious doubts about our relationship, based on past experience, which is exactly why I want to take it slow.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:06pm

  166. 166: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 163 Doesn’t that feel juicy when you can feel it and recognize it for what it is?

    I just recently became consciously aware of it to savor it with my mind and attention.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:06pm

  167. 167: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 165 Understood. The only that came to mind though is that many times guys heal, choose to change and come back but because we are so stuck in the hurt we can’t see that. There are other times we have already moved on and they are just plain boring when they come back. I would encourage you to stay open though for yourself to see what you could possibly create in terms of what you want. Remember you get to decide. You are the one with the power.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:09pm

  168. 168: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I’m also interested in this idea where a siren decides to continue to CD because one man isn’t ready to ‘claim’ her. Sounds reasonable to me. But she dismisses him from her rotation if he also dates others the same as she? Umm..how does she know the other guys she is cd’ing aren’t cd’ing other women as well?

    How does this fit with other ideas presented here: like “staying on your horse” – a woman takes care of herself REGARDLESS of what any man is choosing to do? (Including dating other women) And, Not Being Attached to Outcome -if one dumps a guy she fancies because he is dating other women instead of being exclusive to her – when she is also dating other guys – isn’t she in effect trying to control him and the outcome of the relationship?

    I see theory butting heads with practicality here. A man either steps up, or he doesn’t. Expecting him to date you exclusively, while you continue to date others looks alot like “automatic weed-out” to me. Some men might actually be willing to do that, but not perhaps the one you fancy most for yourself.

    Something to think about before one chooses to ‘go there’.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:10pm

  169. 169: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Cassandra you are not lost you have found Rori so you are here. Please read previous articles to the right of the blog on Power and Self Esteem. They were a tremendous help to me when I first came here. You better serve yourself if you take your attention off of him and put it on yourself.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:14pm

  170. 170: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T the point of Cdating for me is therapy, putting myself out there and being available. Just in case I meet someone who wants what I want and chooses to give it to me. I assume that they are Cdating too until they tell me otherwise. I recently had one tell me otherwise but I am not ready to cross over with him yet because he came across as needy. Too much giving and talking to convince me.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:16pm

  171. 171: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I believe if he is Cdating he doesn’t know what he wants for himself also so he is not mature enough for me yet.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:19pm

  172. 172: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I get that FW.

    What I don’t quite understand is the idea of telling a man you are going to CD to give him time to figure out what he wants – but HE can’t CD at the same time. I don’t see that working out well with men in general.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:24pm

  173. 173: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    If the man is really interested in a woman, there isn’t anything that would get in his way; he will move forward to claim her no matter what. CDing won’t stop him in his tracks. Simply put, if it does, she isn’t the woman for him and he knows it, which is why HE is dating as well. She hasn’t sounded his “alarm”. He may enjoy spending time with her, he may think she is the cats meow but if he doesn’t pursue her full speed ahead, she just isn’t his “one”.

    I could have saved myself a couple of decent heartbreaks had I known this before. But with most things, it’s never too late and I sure know it now.

    ~Lilybelle.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:45pm

  174. 174: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #173 Lilybelle,

    Yeah. That’s why I think suggesting to a lover that you will CD, but he can’t is an automatic “weed out”. He either steps up shortly…or…he won’t do the double standard and starts dating other women himself. Effectively weeding himself out of commitment.

    Question is: are you unhappy enough in the relationship to have that happen?

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 5:54pm

  175. 175: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    174:

    Lily T.

    I am that happy in my relationship with me, to be better than good with it. Saves me a ton of heartache and time and allows me to continue on my journey to the better than him one.

    Jilly and LD’s guys are perfect examples of men who’s “alarms” were sounded. Stepped up and made it happen. Impressive stuff, both on our Sirens parts and on their SO’s parts. And, I believe both men knew our girls were CDing as well.

    I will have a man like that. It is so.

    ~Lilybelle.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:30pm

  176. 176: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    I got the email as well.. Tracked the IP addy.

    Senegal. A country in Western Africa.

    ~Lilybelly.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 6:51pm

  177. 177: RachelNo Gravatar says:

    I’m new here so please bare with. I am so glad I found Rori’s material.

    I added a guy to my CD in February that I had met back in August out of town. No sparks when we met, thought he was nice and moved on. Then I saw him again in my home town, again nice guy no big deal not my type. He contacted me via FB in February. I told him that I was dating and a little bit about what was going on with me. He said he was single and it went from there. I thought why not hang out and date.

    Our first date was odd, but I was just out for a good time. Odd in that we spent about 2 hours in his car waiting for his friend to show up to get us into a nightclub because he didn’t have his ID. I thought this was poor planning, but I looked at the bright side that we really got to know each other.

    Turns out we wanted the same things. Especially to get married, kids, where we wanted to live, career, etc. I told him I’m dating people and don’t want to be in another boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. That what I want is the real deal and dating until it happens. Wasn’t fully attracted, but did like that he wanted the same things. The night was just okay, not terrible. Plus I had this other guy on the CD that things were more serious with and he was ready to get moving on a ring – I just wasn’t sure I wanted him which is why I opened the possibility to #2.

    After 2 months of talking to #2 and another date night where he was supposed to show up at 8:00 but ran so behind it was finally 9:30 when I cancelled the date. He apologized, said he was out front, and I said I didn’t care. He apologized for ruining the night, and I said I was bummed too because I was ready. I went out with my friends and he also went out and we ran into each other. He apologized and hung out with me and my group. We ended up having this amazing chemistry later that night. The kind I don’t have with #1. Anyway – that night he said “let’s make this official”. I said “I don’t want another boyfriend” and left it at that.

    The following week, I barely heard from him. I saw him out on Saturday night and he said he was going to start dating other people. I said, that’s odd considering you asked me to be your GF last week. He said he didn’t want to date other people, just me, but it’s not fair that I get to date. I said I didn’t like that idea, he said “be my girl then”. I said “you know how I feel about that” and left it open. I really wasn’t ready to leave my other guy, nor did I know if I was ready to be proposed to by him, so it’s not like I could say “get a ring”.

    Following week, again..rare texts. We made plans to hang out that Friday, but I could tell he was kind of out of it. He didn’t call me and Friday came around and I didn’t hear from him. I called him and he said he didn’t think I would want to see/talk to him since he hadn’t called me. I said come out anyway.

    When he showed up he said he was turned off by the whole situation. He said he couldn’t bare the thought of my dating other people, getting to know him and other guys, and then being the one not chosen. I guess his girlfriend left him for her ex before and it was very painful. He didn’t want to go through that again so soon. I understood, but didn’t care. Figured we would work through it, if it was meant to be. At this point I wanted to sleep with him. I just didn’t have the same sexual chemistry with #1 and what I experienced the couple weeks before with #2 had me curious.

    So we slept together that night. I had plans with #1 in the morning and I felt horrible. Anxious, couldn’t sleep. Was trying to figure out how I was going to work this out. What was I doing? Thinking “God, I hope he doesn’t ask me to be his girl again because then I’m a bitch”. I had to roll over and text #1 that I wasn’t going to make it. Then a little after that, #2 started saying that he could separate sex and love, he had no feelings, he had a wall up, he was hurt before. I said but what about wanting me to be your girl “even if you told me you only wanted me, right now I couldn’t do it” that he has been through so much pain he was afraid of getting hurt by me.

    I picked up my stuff and said I guess it’s time for me to go. Thanks and bye. I felt demeaned a bit because I really enjoyed my time with him. But also relieved, and figured everything happens for a reason. I knew I had to break it off with #1 regardless of the outcome. I just wasn’t sure what I was doing. I wasn’t ready to tell #2 that I wanted him to commit to me…he was trying to get me to be his girl. I wasn’t ready to ask him to propose, because I wasn’t sure I wanted him and thought I liked #1. So I broke it off with #1 the next day. Didn’t think it was fair to string him along while I sleep with other people.

    This CD has me confused. It’s been a month since the incident with #2 and I hadn’t responded to any of his texts apologizing. I finally spoke with him this week and he apologized and said that what he was really hoping I would say is that I wanted to be with him and only him. I told him I couldn’t tell if I wanted to be with him because he was flaky and I don’t want to feel like I can’t depend on my man. I said I could date him again, but not the flaky guy he was. I said “if that’s the guy you are, that’s fine, but I can’t date that guy”. He asked for a couple of days to think it over. I had already written him out of my life, so there’s a part of me that feels okay with whatever the outcome is. The other part of me wants him to say he can man up and be the guy I want him to be.

    I just don’t know what to think, or do. Any thoughts Sirens? He started following through after we talked. Like said he was going to call the next day and actually did. (Unlike other times). Then a few texts yesterday and nothing today. Just don’t know what to think about the situation. Thanks.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 7:38pm

  178. 178: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    femininewoman,

    i feel so clear-minded reading your comments. everything is so concise and clear. nothing muddy. it sounds like you really *have* and understand the concepts you’re speaking about.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:15pm

  179. 179: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    Tmizz,

    you, too!… you’re so clear about explaining what you understand around the concept of cd’ing.
    thanks for sharing.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:18pm

  180. 180: ginaNo Gravatar says:

    Rachel,
    Yay, I believe I’m in the exact same boat, though we got here different ways. Welcome!! Sorry you’re here, though, cause I am finding it UNPLEASANT!

    I THINK THESE GUYS DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING!

    Maybe they’re learning. But they really need lessons!

    In ballroom dance terms, it feels like a man asking me to dance all kinds of exciting, but dangerous flips and arials, but he hasn’t shown me that he can even lead a basic step. FELLAS: I’d love to just follow your movement – you could sway back and forth, but if you would just let me really feel you, let me feel safe and comfortable and confident, relaxed – that could be a fantastic dance experience. I just want to be able to connect to a solid frame! I want to be able to expand into your arms. I want to feel free to fall, and feel as though you catch me with every step. Feeling connected and supported While moving to music FEELS WONDERFUL.

    INSIDER TIP: Fellas – ladies’ deepest desire is to be a princess, and you can fulfill her deepest desire through dance by simply making every move with her in mind. The better developed your own stuff is – posture, sense of rhythm, knowledge of the steps, technicque, etc – the more opportunity she has for feeling princessy. But the key is to apply your skill to give her a good dance.

    Following a dance partner, too enraptured with his own feeling and experience of the music to really notice whether she is feeling good, safe and able to connect FEELS AWFUL!

    And that’s how my dance with D is feeling.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:18pm

  181. 181: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    this was really helpful… reading what different sirens had to say about cd’ing and especially the “no exclusivity, no girlfriend” Tool.
    i don’t know too many men who Don’t want exclusivity. they are looking for a LTR and WANT one. Alot of them seem to be ready “right now”.
    it feels strange to me. i guess i’m seeing that that feels insincere, feels like just “anyone will do”, just so they have someone… i wonder “how does that ever go anywhere?”
    i see that it really IS a total waste of time for a woman unless she is happy with not being married.

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:35pm

  182. 182: ginaNo Gravatar says:

    I have a sense that I should be basking in the glory of a wonderful night tonight, but instead I’m feeling lousy. I missed the opportunity to serve my students tonight – I was a bad and lazy teacher tonight: sitting there not really helping students, not really doing anything for myself – just sitting there sabotaging myself. Not in every way, but many ways. And some of my students seemed to notice. Yay!! I’m realizing that instead of obsessing about D’s bad behavior, I need to focus on my OWN STUFF! And the silly thing is that I do have everything I need, I just need to apply myself differently. Like right now I’m self sabotaging by not going to bed. But I guess this is mental masturbation that feels good and I’m producing som good results by processing this way. And I did get some good thinking done when I wasn’t serving my students like I wished I had. But I did have the self awareness to get my cute little notepad out of my purse and write all my anxious feelings out. Yay! That’s good. And a man did follow me out to my car and talk to me a good while. He’s way way older by like 20 years. So I didn’t take it seriously, but it did feel good to talk to him. We agreed that we both want to dance with eachother more often. huh, funny…

    Friday, 20 May 2011 @ 11:56pm

  183. 183: ginaNo Gravatar says:

    Huh, I guess tonight, I wasn’t professional – I was just a girl.. I wasn’t getting paid, and I paid my own way in, and have a bad attitude about it. Which in feelings means…that I feel a little mad and insecure and bad and inspired to maybe find some way to help set up the event for the cost of admission. Yay!! That’s a good idea!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 12:02am

  184. 184: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    the longer i’m on this blog the more i’m beginning to realize that i really and truly feel happy without a man even though i just love them. there would be alot to give up if i got married again.
    a few posts back, i think it was “Why Are You There?”, i realized i need to recognize and be okay with being happy being single… maybe “just dating” is all i want to do… maybe a uncommitted LTR is all i want…

    on the other hand, i can’t even think of anything that would be more wonderful than being in a committed relationship with a man i trust, one who is worthy of that trust.

    dating feels kind of confusing to me. especially after learning the things on here that contradict what alot of us were taught about men, relationships, etc.

    i feel pissed that things STILL revolve around men. it feels like censure to me to not be “allowed” my true expression(s) with regard to a (my) man. i feel stifled that in order to please a man i have to adapt myself to him, to …

    okay, but i get it,
    i don’t have to do those things if i want a feminine energy man.

    i had gotten that intellectually, but now i’m getting it emotionally. getting it as in “it’s for me”, it’s not just something that works for others.

    it’s a choice.
    i can carry the feminine energy in the relationship or i can carry the masculine energy.
    or varying degrees of either.
    or both.
    it’s all a choice.

    and if i want to carry MORE of the femme energy, “Here’s How To DO It”, rori says, “don’t DO anything”.

    Me, as the female, applying the *BEing Tools* allows the men who want to carry femme energy to see that *I* will be carrying it. I am the goddess, i am the diva, i am the yummie pie.
    if they want to be the diva yummie pie, they will just pass me by …
    and the more i hold the line (with the boundaries i create) on staying in the femme, the easier time men will have *seeing* me as the feminine energy in a potential relationship with THEM.
    so that if they *want* that, I’ll be easier to spot.
    and conversely, if they *don’t* want the female to carry th feminine energy because they want to, well, then it works out for everybody involved that way too.

    ooh i feel really good about this.
    now i feel like this is NOT censure.
    it is Connection.

    it just feels like SENDING SIGNALS letting men who are INTERESTED in women being and *liking* being the diva princess yummy pie goddess (warrior…ahem) KNOW that i AM one.

    okay, yes, this feels right.
    i feel better,
    thinking about this as social cueing, social signaling.
    SENDING SIGNALS to men, for them to read… signals about me… who i am, what i want…
    not anything about trying to get them to DO anything or DO anything for me.
    i already have everything i need.
    i’m just saying this is who i am… a feminine woman. who likes masculine men.
    that’s all.
    that doesn’t feel manipulative.
    it isn’t manipulative.
    i have no agenda and no investment in any outcome with that particular man.
    just sendin’ out my “I’m a *Feminine* Female who likes Masculine Men” signals… in case anybody’s interested ;)

    whew, i feel better now having worked through that emotionally.
    i feel comfortable with myself in my feminine female self, and also in my feminine female signal sending self.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 12:35am

  185. 185: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Re 173,

    Thanks Lillybelle,

    I needed to be reminded of this!

    I need to keep reminding myself of this constantly atm!

    xoxoxo

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 12:43am

  186. 186: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Lurker .. common scenario is dating for months or years, exclusive , STALLED..

    like this

    1. ” I feel so into you and I just love being with you.
    I hear what you are saying that you dont know what you want with me. You do know that I want a long term relationship and marriage , and I would love to marry someone as wonderful as you! I feel excited about the future and am ready for the next step in my life.

    Now I dont want to pressure you , and you are entitled to take all the time you want to decide , but while you work that out , it feels bad for me just waiting. I dont want to get dramatic and needy and I would feel a lot better opening this up and accepting dates with other men. Of course i wont be sleeping with them and it will just be lunch or coffee. It feels so much better for me just taking the pressure off both of us. What do you think?

    2. Guy says ” Thats not fair! You get to date others , what about me? ”
    ” I feel great being with you , just not as an ongoing long term girlfriend .I want to be a fiance and then a wife. I am feeling frustrated and like my hands are tied. I feel stalled .I understand this relationship suits you as it is but it feels bad to me . It feels scary to think of us both dating others because that really feels like we are backing off from each other and I dont want that.I love you. But I would feel much less stressed and pressured in this situation if I accept other dates.”

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:04am

  187. 187: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling deflated.

    Cus housemate has just found out about his ex cheating on him all hell has broken loose in our home atm.

    He is full of emotions, mostly swinging between angry and sad/broken and I am seeming to be the one he talk to and turns to for comfort, which was manaegable for a few days and now is starting to feel like sh8t!

    And meanwhile he continues to date other woman, on official dates, and says they are just friends and then has this kinda of emotional connection with me.

    We have talked again.

    He asked me what I wanted and I said to be in a LTR with the right guy and committed etc.

    Then he spent ages freaking out explaining why he couldn’t be tha guy right now, which felt awful, until I explained that what I want in my life is independent of him, and that I was not asking him for anything!

    Grrrr.

    Then we talked again and it seems he is attracted to me but atm all he can focus on is the sh8t with his ex.

    Anyway, basically now I am feeling like ‘unofficial girlfriend’. You know the nice one who is always there to lend an ear etc… to be a piller of support… but never gets taken out etc etc…

    Everytime I flip it and focus on myself and go and do other things he kinda pulls me back in by talking to me about it.

    I don’t want to be a complete b8tch and tell him to shut up, but I am beginning to feel drained and less than.

    Last night I took myself out to the pub.

    I did quite well at moderating my drinking, and at the end of the night I brought myself home instead of trying to find somewhere to go on to.

    So that is a babystep in the right direction.

    And then housemate was here and tearful so I layed with him on his bed, fully clothed and cuddled him. We slept.

    That is the first time since him freaking out that I have stayed in his bed, I have deliberately been keeping a distance and bringing myself up to my bed.

    And today I think he is prob going on a date to the Zoo with other woman and his boy and her kids. I’m not sure but my instincts tell me that is what is happening.

    :-(

    Oh, ick that just feels terrible.

    Like all my energy being drained.

    And to top it off Mr pub guy has told one of our mutual friends that he really, really likes me. This when she caught him FB stalking me!

    But he is still with his secret girlfriend who he never brings out. And when she asked him why he didn’t just break it off and be with someone he actually likes (such as me) he said it is complicted.

    But since her telling me he really likes me it made me feel all melty and when I saw him at the pub I was determined to do the RR dance position and unzip my heart ad melt. Which I did. And there was more eye contact than ever before.

    And then my friend came and pulled me away saying the situation looked ‘tense’ which made me feel confused.

    And then he still left without even saying goodbye so I felt bereft and silly and like I am grasping at straws and have somehow ended up waiting on a man, which was not my plan at all, and makes me feel very vulnerable.

    So everything feels a bit ick right now.

    :-(

    Clearly neither of these guys is able to step up for me right now and I need to refocus again, and it seems like each time I do something is thrown at me to pull me back in or test me.

    How do I take care of me here?

    Other CD is out of the country on a trip right now.

    There is another guy who keeps asking me out but he has got a bad reputation around here (although he has only ever treated me well and given me good attention time and time again) so I have been putting him off.

    Well, ho hum, I have stuff to do today so can just focus on me.

    But I feel so drained and icky knowing pub guy likes me and makes me want to be where he is, bu that feels like sabotaging myself cus when I am there he doesn’t step up and then I feel ‘out there’ and ‘waiting’ Ick!

    And I feel ANGRY with housemate guy.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:07am

  188. 188: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I might add that the conditions for saying this would be fairly extreme , when the woman was UNHAPPY.

    The woman would have to be loving herself a lot and focused on taking great care of herself and NOT just prepared to adapt to the mans plans and desires .

    She would have to be prepared to lose him if he doesnt like her decision .

    In short its about putting herself FIRST in her own life and looking for what she wants . The man is already putting himself first and has what he wants ..a girlfriend and no commitment. The two things dont match. They are butting heads over the issue of commitment.

    She can break up with him , which would be a great shame , or she can make this speech and offer an alternative solution to the impasse.

    He , of course can accept , reject or offer an alternative solution.
    If he wants to date others as well then he really is not heading to marriage anyway and they need to break up or get VERY casual.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:16am

  189. 189: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Just read my post back.

    And I can see very clearly I need to take better care of me.

    Housemate may be good guy and not mean to but I am allowing myself to be used here, emotionally.

    I don’t want that.

    And meanwhile it seems his good energy is focused on other woman possibly?

    Not so great for me.

    And whether he means to or not my feelings are getting stomped on.

    Ok, how do I deal with this?

    Well I need to pull back.

    If housemate tried to talk to me about it anymore I need a speech to use to bascially say ‘I do care and this feels bad to me, to be called upon for emotional support’

    And now I am stuck.

    I don’t know what I am trying to say beyond that.

    Can anyone help with this?

    I feel confused.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:25am

  190. 190: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    conscious realizations tonight:

    men know what they want
    who they want
    they are on a mission
    they cannot be stopped
    they need to hear the ALARM
    they can and do enjoy other females’ company, sometimes very, very much, as they continue their mission for “the One” who sets off their alarm.
    they will expend considerable amounts of energy to keep a woman who doesn’t set off their alarm, but whose company they enjoy…
    but they still and always know that she didn’t set off the alarm
    and they KNOW they have an alarm
    and they know it should go off.

    when it goes off,
    they will stop at nothing.
    they believe they deserve her.
    they believe they are worthy of her.
    maybe she just doesn’t realize it yet… no problem
    they will keep trying.
    they know (believe) she will see it.
    My mind calls this: UNDAUNTED.
    a little problem… other men?
    other men, move over. she;s mine!
    I deserve her. I am worthy. She’s the best. and she is MINE.
    She’s dating others? no problem…”no, you don’t have to quit dating”. and “Hell no, i don’t want to date anyone else, i’ve found the ONE and i want her and only her”.
    Male orientation: find the SOLUTION. find:
    THE FIX: “I want you for my very own.” “Marry Me”.
    Problem solved.

    Mission accomplished.

    Anything else, anything besides this says to me (at this stage in my understanding) that you may be alot of things to him, fun, good-looking, smart, etc., but his ALARM didn’t go off and you’re just not the One no matter how many other things he likes about you. he may want to date you, he may want to date ONLY you, he may be upset if you date others, he may be hurt upset angry jealous, he may be passionate, loving, supportive, he may introduce you to his friends family coworkers and boss, he may sleep with you, go on vacation with you, buy a house together with you, but if the alarm didn’t go off, you’re just and simply not The One.
    i believe this is summed up by men with these words, when they turn to you and say “It is what it is”. Although, i believe it would probably be stated more accurately as:
    “It isn’t what it isn’t”.

    i get it now.
    thank you goddesses and rori

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:31am

  191. 191: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Yep…

    How f8cking cosy!

    She has just turned up at the door with her kids and they are all going on a nice ‘jolly’ as he put it. to the Zoo.

    And he is gonna turn his phone off to forget about everything that is going on.

    After just spending the night clinging to me cus he felt so upset!

    F8ck I am SO ANGRY right now.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:37am

  192. 192: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    F8cken w8nker!!!!

    ARGHHHHH!

    f8ck him f8ck him f8ck him.

    I feel SOOOOO angry.

    What am I doing?

    I feel used.

    Gotta stop this for myself NOW!

    Help.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:40am

  193. 193: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    ARGHHHHHHH

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:42am

  194. 194: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t think I’ve rung anyone’s alarm!

    :-(

    Well certainly no one I want to be with anyway!

    ;-)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:44am

  195. 195: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    ella,
    i think rori advises that we let men flow like a river… so we don’t get hung up worrying about “him” or “him” or “him”… (not so easy to do if there are things we like about the men.) but i think the Tool for men not stepping up, is: “NEEEXT!”

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:46am

  196. 196: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok start with a cup of coffee and breakfast sandwich…

    Then go and do work.

    That might feel fun – ish

    Then when he wants to talk to me again about his ex I will say…

    Ohhh, I don’t know what to say :-(

    Pouty pout.

    Something about feels bad to be here and have feelings for him and listen about this while all the time I am watching you take out other women.

    That is it.

    But it feels so needy!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:47am

  197. 197: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Janjune.

    Yes. Thanks. Sounds good. Little trickier if you live with the guy… but I will find a way!

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:49am

  198. 198: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    ella,
    just read your comments about him going on the “jolly”.
    wow! that sounds like that hurt bad having him do that.
    do you want him?
    i mean if he felt it for you, would you be interested?

    or are you more upset that he keeps pulling your energy down with his depressive moods?
    and/or treats you like the unofficial girlfriend?
    can you construct how to protect yourself with some boundaries surrounding this?
    or maybe script what to say next time he does it?

    i don’t know if any of this helps.

    i’m on the other side of the pond– it’s really late here, going to bed but sending you ((hugggs))

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 1:54am

  199. 199: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    yes, living with someone, it would be doubly difficult to keep the peace you have to have with a roommate and also express yourself.

    your comment: “Ohhh, I don’t know what to say.” sounds really good… after all, what *can* you say?

    then maybe tell him, i was just going for a walk/ to the store/ to the library/ pub/… maybe we can have a glass of wine tonight (or whatever)

    he’ll catch on… :)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:01am

  200. 200: janjuneNo Gravatar says:

    goodnight goddessezzzz zzz zz z z z z z z z

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:03am

  201. 201: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella , you are doing well..babysteps.. I like the pub man stuff, its all practice isnt it?

    But why are you so angry with house mate ?
    Because he is not choosing you?

    Because you are offering yourself on a plate , all sweet and soothing and listening and even cuddling on his bed ? And he isnt taking the bait??

    Sorry Ella i am being the devils advocate , but it looks like you are doing the opposite of leaning back at home!

    To me leaning back would look like , smiling , teasing and walking away , no discussion re any other woman ESPECIALLY not a negative situation with an ex.( You are creating an anchor where when he feels bad he is subconsciously associating it with being with you! ) It would look like you being a little flirty then OUT THE DOOR with other guys..no discussion ! If he asks about your dates you just have to smile and say you are having fun and practicing for when a good man steps up for the relationship YOU want.

    All this comforting him is very MASCULINE energy and he is never going to step up while you are in the way listening to him sobbing over lost loves or “being hurt” by his ex. once is enough !! Dont step into the friend shoes.

    And mostly Ella , house mate is offering you CRUMBS . You know this .This makes you angry . But you are accepting them currently so the anger is really anger at yourself for taking the crumbs of comforting and cuddling on his bed and talking about other women when in fact you want a relationship with him.

    Anything less than that is an imaginary crumby relationship with house mate man. And please dont let yourself go there..

    Apply the lean back with house mate Ella and more unzipping and let him see you enjoying YOUR life :)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:04am

  202. 202: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Janjune,

    In all honesty yes I think I would be… although not 100% sure.

    But sure I do have feelings for him. And he knows this.

    Says he has feelings for me too but he’s just literally weeks ago split up with his ex, who is also my friend, and who cheated on him.

    Think he does feel something for me… but obviously I have not rung his alarm!

    And the other woman, who he calls a friend, but who to me it looks like he is officially dating, gets all the good energy…

    Thats how it feels.

    And I feel hella angry.

    At him… prob at me for allowing this situation and him to do this to me…

    I know it seems silly but feels like I am being emotionally raped and then expected to smile and wave them off on their ‘jolly’.

    Yes def need a boundary here… and a script to work with.
    Gonna work on that now.

    Night Janjune.

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:05am

  203. 203: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella I also meant to say that if you feel “used”
    then it means you leaned forward WAY too much and took the paltry crumbs he had left over.

    I hope you are not offended , but reading about your feelings triggered me into feeling a re-run of the G-man sh&t of 5 years of crumbs..I felt SO VERY USED , but that was because I gave him all the trappings of love and I got..CRUMBS. :(

    If you really like this guy i see you have a chance to turn it around by STOPPING all the overfunctioning and just get busy and wait till he comes after you. Then have a feeling message ready… and by then you may not want him anyway! Dating a flat mate is fraught …

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:11am

  204. 204: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 201

    Yes. Exactly!

    And I was doing so well.

    Before he found out about his ex cheating I had asked for no talk of other women and he had been respecting it.

    It is just so hard to see a man in peices and crying and raging and say ‘oh, actually I don’t want to hear about other women!’

    So I got suckered into masc energy comforting role.

    And recently I have begun to say again that I am not comfortable constantly discussing this situation with his ex and he just keeps bringing it back up.

    Again and again.

    And I feel bad/guilty if I say I don’t want to hear.

    And I change things to flirty/fun… then I go out.

    Energy shifts… feeling better.

    Then I come home and he is in a state again.

    I comfort, energy shifts back to wrong way again!

    Grrrr, frustrating.

    Ok… I can see lots of chances to practice here.

    I can do this.

    Just need some help around making a boundary about not talking about ex… or other women.. and a speech for this…

    in a way that I do not feel like an evil witch!

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:13am

  205. 205: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 203…

    Yes again – exactly!

    And I am overfunctioning.

    And it is like someone laying bait which drags me into it…

    Sometimes I have been able to step away from the bait, and other times I have been suckered in, hook, line and sinker.

    I have told him what I want in my life… I have leaned back when I have only been offered crumbs, and I expressed my feelings and then took myself away when other woman was coming over here in the week.

    I have been dating other guys… taking care of myself… unzipping when he comes forward, and being happy/flirty when I am feeling happy/flirty.

    And it was all going quite well until I came back on Wed and he had found out about ex cheating and grabbed onto me for support.

    And since then it has been off kilter again.

    And today I just feel hella angry cus he was crying last night telling me he felt like ‘a used up, crumpled old bag’ and my heart kinda melted for him… cus I think he is great… and so I went in mac energy and comforted.

    Then he is off out, all topped up, on his jolly today with other woman!

    Oh, silly me!

    :-(

    Owww, this feels bad.

    But at least I am seeing this clearly now, which gives me the chance to address it and change it all for myself without having to spend loads of time feeling bad!

    Thanks so much for your help on this Rosa.

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:21am

  206. 206: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    And I am left feeling drained.

    And angry.

    F8ck this though!

    I am a powerful Siren and I WILL turn this situation around.

    Not in relation to any outcome with him.

    Just to a place that feels better for me.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:22am

  207. 207: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    “Sorry Ella i am being the devils advocate , but it looks like you are doing the opposite of leaning back at home!”

    Yes I am! And I am not sure how to deal with this… when he hits one of his ‘troughs’ as he calls it… and guess what, I am the one here… and it is always with me!

    But when a man is in pieces how can I just say I don’t want to hear and walk away.

    Wow, that feels cold.

    Triggeriffic or what!

    Ok I am gonna try and work on it… something like

    ‘Oh I am so sorry you are feeling bad. And I really can’t talk to you about this because it feels bad to have feelings for someone and comfort them emotionally and then watch them take out other women. I hope you feel better soon and I need to go upstairs and look after myself’.

    Hmmm still doesn’t feel quite right… is pretty much what I mean though…

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:28am

  208. 208: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok, usually helps when I type out my exact truth, as it is for me… and stars from there.

    Lets find that.

    Ok…

    It feels bad when he turns to me for emotional support about his hurt feelings from his ex.

    Ok… there are other people he can turn to… it doesn’t have to be me.

    The reason I feel bad is cus it feels horrible watching a man in pieces like that and it triggers my overfunctioning BIG style to want to mop it all up and make it better.

    But this is no good for me cus I have some feelings for him and it makes me feel drained.

    And suddenly it becomes all about him again.

    Ok…

    ‘I am sorry you are feeling bad and I am not the right person to support you with this. Because of how I feel it leaves me feeling drained when I support you emotionally and then I watch you taking out other women.

    It feels bad to constantly be discussing this stuff with you.

    I hope you feel better and in order to take care of myself I don’t want to discuss this with you anymore’

    And then walk away.

    Sirens, what do you think?

    Any good? Please feel free to tweak.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:39am

  209. 209: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I am fed up of being strong. And pouring my energy into this man so that he feels topped up and I feel drained.

    And I am fed up of being reasonable and then feeling drained.

    Although I have been resisting that.

    Lat night was just a f8ck up because he started crying.

    And he is a big manly man so I never expected to have to deal with so much fem energy from him.

    This is practice for me to learn not to overfunction. Even in the most triggering situation to do so.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:40am

  210. 210: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    You will be fine Ella!

    How about this..

    ” I am sorry that you feel that way ”
    (ie you acknowledge his feelings , but dont accept them as yours. You give them back to him.)

    “It feels better for me not to go over and over all that . Its finished now and I dont feel good being your therapist” (state a boundary)

    “It would feel much better to do something fun. Do you wanna make some pop corn?”

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:54am

  211. 211: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Hmmm, spamming the blog!

    Its ok Ella, you are allowed to spam the blog.

    I still love you.

    And I feel hella scared to state my boundary to him.

    Like tight in throat.

    And worried about being a ‘bad’ girl!

    Ow, where did that come from?

    Oh I know… from when Dad was sick (terminally ill) and I had to be good and quiet cus dad was sick.

    This is that situation again… although he is not sick… just hurting.

    Why does he come to me!!!

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

    I feel ANGRY!

    Like Hi Ya! Chop u on the head silly man. Fix up! Slash you with my Siren claws, unleash the rage on you!

    Pow! Pow pow bang on your silly head!

    Bash bash, bosh!

    And still feeling scared to say this boundary.

    Will I be strong enough to do it?

    I have already done this once or twice and somehow something always happens which makes it ‘ok’ for him to ignore my boundary.

    And I have allowed this.

    I have obviously just not been clear enough.

    And/or maybe he is not the guy I thought he was.

    Ok, boundary is ‘Don’t talk to me about other women or come to me for emotional support (unless we were in a committed relationship)’.

    Think that is the boundary.

    Or more… don’t come to me for emotional support when you are not also sharing fun times and taking me on dates.

    Yes… that is it.

    So there are 2 boundaries really.

    ‘Don’t talk to me about other women’

    And

    ‘Don’t come to me for emotional support when you are not taking me out or sharing fun times with me’

    YES!

    I am clear!

    Woohoo.

    And how to say.

    Is above.

    Or, maybe better

    “I am sorry you are feeling bad and I am not comfortable hearing about other women or giving you emotional support when we are not really dating or sharing fun times.

    GAP.

    It makes me feel drained to be here for you like that when I have feelings for you.

    GAP.

    And then I have to watch you take out other women.

    GAP.

    So I do hope you feel better. And at this time I need to walk away.

    STOP.

    Hmmm, hows that feel Ella?

    And how about ‘I know you are going through a rough time and it feels bad to me when you come to me for emotional support and you are not taking me out and we are not sharing fun times.

    And it feels bad watching other women get those good bits (not sure whether to say this or leave this bit out?).

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 2:54am

  212. 212: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    This simple structure

    -validates his feelings

    -shows him you respect his ability to take care of his feelings

    – shows him you want more than to be his therapist.

    – shows him you are strong on the inside and soft and melty and inviting on the outside.

    – offers an alternative way to support him and lighten his mood , not crank it up by endless repetition.

    I would also add that in my opinion (and please disagree if you wish) , all this hugging on his bed under the “disguise’ of ‘comfort” is lowering your value. To me it reads like YOU are laying the bait!!!

    I hope this does not sound harsh.

    I can see this so clearly for someone else after I just did it all wrong recently with old school friend guy who was dating me “with intent” , told me he was “courting” me , yet spent a lot of time seeking counselling about his ex , talking over his feelings and monopolising our interactions with HER presence , then went off to negotiate marriage with her again (the 6th time I think!!!!)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:01am

  213. 213: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa

    How about

    ‘I know you are going through a rough time and it feels bad to me when you come to me for emotional support when we are not dating and we are not really sharing fun times.

    And it feels bad watching other women get those good bits (not sure whether to say this or leave this bit out?).’

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:05am

  214. 214: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I read your FM Ella , its good but I would not explain any reason why not except maybe that you feel uncomfortable..just say you want to do something else.

    Its Over functioning to explain all the stuff we think is important . In fact it feels a bit uncomfortable reading about “other women” and the “feelings you have for him” as reasons . He will know the reasons if he reflects about it . It feels a bit “drama” and leany -forwardy heavy to me.

    “I have to watch you take out other women” feels bad to me to read. it sounds to me like there are several assumptions, that he SHOULDNT be taking them out for some reason, that he is anyway and you are FORCED to observe it, and that you give a F### anyway!

    Actually he can do as he wishes , and he will , and you can observe it or not , and then you can think a lot of different things about that , like ..umm..

    ” it will be good for him to get some fun time out with someone else ..I am in a great position here to get to know him while he gets over lost love ..hes getting ready for something real . Meanwhile Im staying on my horse and getting out and CDing”

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:12am

  215. 215: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Yes Rosa,

    I totally agree.

    And yes cuddling on bed was not the best thing to do… its just hard to see clearly in the moment sometimes.

    But I see clearly now!

    So yes boundary in place.

    Speech in place.

    No more taking care of his feelings.

    And no more cuddling on bed unless he starts to take me on dates.

    Which he might not, or he might.

    And either way is fine!

    And off for me to other dates.

    Tbh I think the cuddling on bed is also about my need. I need to be cuddled and I am feeling this need right now.

    But it doesn’t feel good w/o also dating.

    So if I say NO to this, cus it is not exactly what I want, that makes the space for what I DO want, which is cuddling WITH dating.

    Whether with him or someone else.

    And now tha hard part.

    Actually doing it!

    Don’t know if I am strong enough.

    Sometimes feel so depleted and lonely when I come home from pub on my own…

    feel lonely and want a cuddle.

    Ok what can I do to take care of myself instead?

    Maybe make a cup of tea. Sandwhich is hungry, and come up to cosy bed and cuddle with my teddy (ow I feel like such a baby! lol) and watch TV or type on here.

    Yes that sounds do-able.

    Just have to walk on past his room and walk away from his pleas to talk about his ex…

    Oh I really hope I can do it!

    xoxoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:16am

  216. 216: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I think it “feels bad to you when he comes for emotional support ” and you arent his committed partner is the truth only if YOU want to be that and HE doesnt.
    I think it feels bad to you because you are over giving when you listen and encourage it and dont distract or walk away.
    I think the anger and yukky feelings are because of what you are doing , not what he is doing. And as he sinks back and receives all your loving generous comfort he effeminises himself in your eyes..
    Can you get him back into his masculine energy by what you say and do?

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:17am

  217. 217: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa,

    I don’t understand.

    How would I say my FM differently w/o explaining? I am not meaning to explain just trying to say my truth.

    Ok how about

    “I am sorry you are feeling rough and it feels really uncomfortable for me to hear about this. It feels bad when you come to me for emotional support on this and we are not sharing fun times. What do you think?”

    Any better.

    Btw, I may be getting it wrong and I feel worried to say, and your post 214 felt a bit angry.

    I don’t want to seem ungrateful though, I feel really appreciative of your help on this one!

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:21am

  218. 218: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 216,

    Yes and it is difficult sometimes.

    Like it is taking all my skills constantly to keep distracting and switching the energy back the right way.

    I am feeling drained.

    So I am thinking state boundary and then walk away might be better for now.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:23am

  219. 219: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I can hear you do it with humour and kindness Ella!

    ” I am sorry you arent feeling good.
    Would you like to watch a funny movie ? ”

    He will try on average 3 times to start the old dynamic..of you being his mother and him being the hurt little boy. You give it back using “the cracked record”

    That is say it 3 times if need be” I am sorry you still feel bad, come and watch that movie” or ” I see you still feel bad, sorry to hear it. Do you want some tea?”

    If he keeps going past that i would get firmer with the boundary ..”I dont want to keep going over it , it feels bad . Im going to make tea” Walk Away.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:24am

  220. 220: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Hmmphhh, I don’t know if I want committed relationship with him!

    Grrrrr, that is what he thought I was wanting and that felt bad!

    I just want to share fun times, and maybe dates IF that is offered.

    But I don’t want to be his therapist.

    I feel angry.

    I am gonna walk away.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:24am

  221. 221: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella , when you state it like that you make your emotional support conditional upon a dating relationship. This is a choice of course. It means you wont be a friend.

    It also sounds blamey to me !!! Like its his job to give you dates if he leans on you and he isnt giving you dates so you are rejecting him!

    I think its quite different. He is treating you as his MOTHER , not as a GF. He wants comfort and care. He doesnt want to get sexy EVER with his mother. I think you can get him into masculine energy

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:27am

  222. 222: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 219,

    I feel a lil confused.

    Isn’t offering tea and movies leaning forward and being Mumsy?

    Wouldn’t it be better to just state feelings and then walk if necc?

    I have already begun this process and he already has kept going ahead with old dynamic.

    But I am clearer now.

    Yes, I will do it with kindness first.

    Maybe something like ‘I am sorry you are feeling bad, shall we discuss something more cheerful?’

    And then after 3 times if he doesn’t do it

    ‘this feels bad’ and walk away.

    But I want to say something about it feeling bad that he comes to me for emotional support but does not take me on dates.

    Is this wanting something or trying for an outcome?

    I want to express this cus this is my truth.

    He doesn’t have to take me on dates and I won’t be his therapist anymore!…

    I feel confused.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:29am

  223. 223: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    sorry , cut off ..and out of feminine by refusing to be his MOTHER.

    All this weeping all over you may make it hard for him to feel masculine around you later.

    I know in NLP we never “emote” all over a loved one in an ongoing pattern because of the anchoring that occurs , eg , every time you lie on his bed with him weeping and angry , he feels these emotions with YOU , in his BED.. and anchoring means you only have to adopt the same position in the future…and unconscious mind fires the anchors and next thing hes feeling sad and angry…

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:31am

  224. 224: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa I am loving working with you on this.

    I am starting to feel energised again.

    So how about what we said above and then maybe something like ‘it would feel much better to share fun times’ so I am not asking him for something, just offering a different dynamic.

    There was never the problem of being Mum till a few days ago, in fact it was too sexual so I slowed that down… now we have gone the other way!

    Lol.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:33am

  225. 225: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Yes I can see that offering tea is a bit mumsy ..a bad choice..what i really meant to suggest was a way to put a sudden BREAK into the dynamic ..

    he brings up his feelings BREAK

    You do or say anything unexpected or different –

    Its called a pattern interrupt in NLP

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:34am

  226. 226: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I like ” it would feel much better to share fun times”

    Have you considered breaking into ” Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens…”???? :)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:36am

  227. 227: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Yes I see this issue with anchoring.

    Ok, so to be clear.

    “I am sorry you are feeling this way, would you like to discuss something more cheerful?’

    X3.

    And if he still goes with the bad stuff

    ‘This is feeling bad, I hope you feel better soon and I don’t feel comfortable supporting you emotionally on this. It will feel better to share fun times’

    And then walk away.

    Wow, hella scary!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:36am

  228. 228: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Meanwhile taking care of me, CD-ing and being generally fabolous!

    :-)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:37am

  229. 229: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa @ 226,

    loool :-)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:39am

  230. 230: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    “But I want to say something about it feeling bad that he comes to me for emotional support but does not take me on dates.

    Is this wanting something or trying for an outcome?

    I want to express this cus this is my truth. ”

    Ella , I know its your truth …BUT …you are 100% correct about outcome oriented…because you are trying to CONTROL his actions by stating he can have the support conditional upon the dates :)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:39am

  231. 231: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa,

    Yes I see that.

    Ok, Forget out mentioning dates.

    I feel happy to go with what is in 227.

    And good about shifting the energy and a new dynamic.

    The rest is up to him but even if nothing happens I will have said NO to the crumbs that feel bad.

    :-)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:43am

  232. 232: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I really love all your speech except for ” I dont feel comfortable supporting you emotionally like this” …to me it sounds a bit blamey like he shouldnt be asking you to. Did he ask you to ? NO!

    And he is only doing what hes doing . He hasnt asked you to support him. You stepped into that role entirely by choice. Then you didnt get the “payoff ‘ of GF status or dates.

    It has no good or bad judgment attached.

    “i dont feel comfortable going over this so much . Its in the past . It would feel better to do something fun! “

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:44am

  233. 233: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    He knows you have supported him emotionally if he pauses to think it over..

    You dont need to point it out , nor leave it hanging with the unspoken “and I have feelings for you , so what are you going to give me in return? ” Christian Carter talks about this as the woman making an emotional investment ,then expecting a payoff , in the form of a relationship.

    A little space, and he may just realise it and step up a little :)

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:48am

  234. 234: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    On your horse Siren! Woohoo !!!!!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:49am

  235. 235: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa yes,

    That feels better.

    Just that I don’t feel comfortable and offer an alternative.

    Yep yep all good.

    Thanks.

    Now just feeling hella scared in case he brings her back here to cosy up for the evening tonight!

    Ahhh!

    I think I would have to take myself out, or off to my mum’s for the evening if that happened.

    I am not quite Rockstar enough about it to be in the same house atm… I think I would stay in my room and brood.

    So having a plan B to go out or to chill at my mum’s feels like taking better care of myself.

    Although I feel angry when I have to leave my own house!

    Grrr.

    Maybe it won’t happen.

    But this is what happened earlier in the week.

    When it happened then I expressed my feelings and left for the eveing and did something else.

    By the time I came home she was gone and the energy felt good.

    I feel resentful of her being around.

    And jealous of the attention she gets!

    Ick, ugly stuff.

    Still I love my ugly stuff.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:52am

  236. 236: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella , you are in a difficult situation of living with the guy . This is going to happen a lot , more than likely ,that other women will be there .

    I am hoping you can either let him just be the river and do what he does and you CD everyone else and feel detached form outcome , or if you really cant you may have to move out.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:54am

  237. 237: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa

    I will have to cus I want to stay here more than I want him…

    It just feels difficult.

    And I know he didn’t like it when my date picked me up the other day!

    Thats why I am finding ways to make it work so I can stay.

    I have to let go of wanting anything with him… and I can… its just not instant.

    Yes as I get stronger I may be able to tolerate other women around. And right now it just feels too much, having been close and intimate with him (no sex though thank goodness).

    I will do this.

    Will help when I have some more CDs again.

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:57am

  238. 238: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Arghh frusrating cus I am not even really sure IF I want him…

    But this situation with other women makes it feel like I do if u know what I mean!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:00am

  239. 239: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I know what you mean !

    I suspect that when he gets all needy and sobby it gives your feminine energy an icky feeling and erodes some of the attraction.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:03am

  240. 240: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I felt that way about old school guy .
    In the end I was hurt that I had been used (but I set it up by allowing him to lean on me)
    AND

    I was turned OFF as he felt effeminate more and more , the more he kept talking about his ex fiance and his feelings..

    I ended up releived really that I didnt have to keep on taking care of his FEELINGS !!!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:05am

  241. 241: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella I think if you make it clear you know he can look after himself and his emotional state and just stay away for a few days , minimal time together..

    Maybe even go away for a day or two ?

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:08am

  242. 242: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa,

    Has felt good to work with you on this,

    I feel clearer and better now.

    Know what to do.

    Feel a mix of nervous/confident about putting it into place.

    Looking forward to practicing!

    xxoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:08am

  243. 243: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Maybe…

    But I want to practice this boundary now, lol…

    I will get to say it I expect cus no doubt he will go emotional again.

    I can hang out at my mum’s for a bit but will prob come home to sleep.

    I’ll figure it out.

    xoxoxox

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:11am

  244. 244: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Good luck!
    I’m off now.

    My CD “fruit basket” man arrived back in the country today and was on the phone the minute he got into the airport.
    That feels good to be special!

    I have a date for Monday with him.

    The Sweet box man has also been in touch and long distance is hovering ..

    I feel a little TOO detached from them all. I expect this is a hang over from all the illness and wanting to take care of ME above all else. I can honestly say they feel like a river flowing in and flowing out and I finally , for the first time in my life, do not attach MY personal value to what any one of them thinks , says or does with me.

    That is a huge revelation.

    That I dont NEED a mans attention or approval or investment in me in order to feel good about me, and to feel gorgeous and to feel ok with me , just as I am.
    I dont NEED a man taking me to bed to know I am desirable and beautiful just as i am.

    I wish i knew this at 23 , or 33 . or even at 50! But i do at 51 , and that feels GREAT !

    (and seems to attract the men .. :) :) )

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 4:23am

  245. 245: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Lurker and Queenbee!

    I’m meeting ex husband today to discuss how to make this work for all of us. I don’t underestimate how difficult this is for him and am genuinely appreciative. Yes, skype and holidays and whatever other suggestions he has for keeping contact are all being discussed today.

    When we talked about it the other night he asked me to give him the summer to build up a relationship with them before we go. I agreed with him to not move until 2 weeks before the schools open to give him that time and also give them a chance to settle in somewhat before school.

    I feel so grateful and tearful.

    R said today he doesn’t think he can move as early as me but will be coming (offered no estimate for when that might be). I feel like my heart is breaking but I have to go, I was always going and now that everything is lined up for that to happen, I just have to believe things will work out for the best.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 6:03am

  246. 246: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Janjune, Ella and Rosa thanks a lot for sharing.

    Janjune I feel a shift towards more confidence reading your mind processing the concepts and applying them. I feel them flowing from my consciousness into my body into my unconscious mind. It feels sensual.

    Ella and Rosa thanks for sharing that process, the feeling messages, the breakdown of what might be happening. Really eye opening and empowering for me to see how it is done in actual everyday practice.

    Thanks ladies I really appreciate this.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 6:13am

  247. 247: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Keep on believing Kyla. Just also bear in mind that emotions change and people change their minds. It might happen that as reality sets in with your husband he might go back on forth. However if you keep believing it will keep your vibe up and will translate to him if you do not anchor into any drama he might bring up as the time draws nearer. Set your intention and just keep moving forward no matter what happens. That should help him in his process as he feels your energy when communicating.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 6:16am

  248. 248: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla I also sense that in working out logistics and how this will work for everyone all round you might need to switch from masculine to feminine energy as he might need some assurance that it will work out but might not be able to see how. As well as he might offer suggestions for solutions that I believe you might need to be careful not to outright reject as it would communicate that his thinking his flawed making him wrong and that things could only work out your way. If nothing else be careful to appreciate him for any suggestions he makes and ask for time to consider his proposals if there is any amount of discomfort or uncertainty. At least that is what I would choose to do if I was in the same situation. The ultimate goal is to have a win win solution so his opinions has to be as valid as yours, if he offers any. I also imagine that in signing the papers he must be going through some grieving that if you honor if you recognize it could help you really get all that you want.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 6:31am

  249. 249: MelNo Gravatar says:

    It’s a beautiful day today! Going for a nice drive in the country and a picnic this afternoon. :) I’m feeling happy and excited!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 7:18am

  250. 250: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Oh boy Mel that is just great to hear. Hope you get something today to visualize in the future as your happy to place to go when you feel down.

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 7:53am

  251. 251: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    13: flower

    I am not sure I understand your post.
    I’ll tell you what I read in it and you’ll tell me if it works for you.

    There is this man you went out with last year, you wish to be his girl friend.
    You asked him if he had any kid, he said he used to want kids in the past, but now he does not want any and he does not have any.
    You told him you want a relationship.
    He said he is not interested he only wants to stay friend.
    You broke up.

    As a friend, he kept contacting you along the months, but it is difficult for you because when you hear from him you forget he only wants the friendship.
    Your emotions make it look like “he comes back”.
    But it finally feels like friends again, so you tell him feeling messages, and he still says he is not interested, he wants to keep it as friends.
    When you tell him you want a relationship, you call that a break up.

    Last time you told him you want a relationship was last week and since then you have leant back totally.

    2 days ago, you saw him in the street. With him you saw another man and a baby.
    You did not ask who the father of the child was.
    You assume it is his, but you don’t know for sure
    Assuming it is his child got you angry.
    He acted friendly to you, he made the child wave at you.
    In fact, he did not hide the child at all when he saw you, he used the child to happily attract your attention.
    He made her wave at you until you saw them.
    You did not feel happy like he might have expected. You told him you felt angry.

    The child was mixed race and the other man was black, and your friend told you he has no kid, yet you assumed the child is your friend’s child and he is a liar.
    He was happily waving at you to attract your attention and you told him you feel angry.
    He laughed in an uncomfy way.
    It is possible he did not get why you are angry, he must have been searching in his memory what he did to you last time he met you. Or he might have been busy in his mind wondering if you are angry because he does not want to be your boy friend.

    You did not ask who the father of the child is, instead you asked where the mother was.
    He told you she was home. Which says nothing about who the father is or who the mother is.
    It only says this child has a mother who is home.
    His answer might be an honest innocent answer to the word “where”
    “Where is she?” “home”

    Or

    He might have understood you were fishing for info…
    It is possible he was upset or amused by your reaction and he played with the words “she is home” knowing it is not what you really want to know.
    It might have been his way to tell you “Ask honestly if she is mine, if that’s what you want to know”

    You came back home very upset and you wrote the post here.

    Your post 14 asks what to do next time you see him.

    Well on his side the man is only a friend and on your side he is a man you have feelings for.
    If it hurts too much, the best is to not speak to him again. Cut him out of your life and date at least 3 other men.
    Not for the child issue, but because he has proven in a year time he is not interested in romance and it is hurting you.

    If you do speak to him again, then I would ask him honestly who the child’s father is.
    I would get that doubt out of the road:

    you_ “That was a gorgeous child you were with, the other day. Who’s the father?”
    him_ “The man I was with. Why?”
    you_ “ She looks like you. I saw you happy waving with her, I came to think she could be yours. I felt upset. I am glad I asked you today. ”

    or
    him_ ”I am her father. Why?”
    you _ “She looks like you. I feel upset because you told me you had no kids. I don’t like untruth about parenthood. I don’t see the point. It feels ridiculous.”

    xxx

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 8:30am

  252. 252: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    I’m having some trouble with this myself. Well, first of all, I have been with my boyfriend for 2 years. We have talked about marriage, and that whole bit, and he also gave up going into the military and a far away internship because he did not want to be away from me for the summer. We go to seperate colleges, and our semesters just ended a couple of weeks ago, and he took an internship close to our hometowns so he could still be with me. I know that that definitely says something. However, he says he wants the vibe between us to be different this summer. Meaning, he wants everything to be mutual, like we’re a “real couple” by being a team (taking turns paying for dates, taking turns initiating plans, driving to see each other, etc.). He wants to prepare for when we move in together after we’re both done with college, doing things as a team. In the past, it has been him paying for everything, and making all the efforts, and he calls this moving to the next level in our relationship by getting out of the whole “dating” vibe, and going into the “real, serious couple” vibe, if that makes sense.Which I’m totally fine with. I have no problem with that at all. However, last night I confronted him because I asked him if he wanted to accompany me while I meet up with a friend I haven’t seen in a while. This is a friend of the opposite sex, who used to have a crush on me, and we agreed that if we were ever to meet up with a friend of the opposite sex, we’d go together because it would be more comfortable. However, he declined the offer because he said he planned on playing tennis after work like he did the day before. I became a little upset, and told him I was feeling a little dissappointed with the way the summer is starting out because we haven’t been able to spend time together all week, and here comes the weekend, I invite him along with my friend and I, and boom he already made plans. He reminded me of the “mutual relationship” whosiwhatsit, which is ok, but I just tried, and was rejected. What is that? He said, “well then you should have made plans with me”. I told him that it was ridiculous that I have to “make an appointment” way in advance in order to make plans. Shouldn’t I have first dibs anyway? Shouldn’t I be a priority? Especially because we haven’t seen each other all week? And he said that he does want to spend time with me, after I asked him if he did. Then he said that he didn’t want to meet my friend, and it just wasn’t something he was interested in. I also said, “well gee, don’t you miss me?” and he said, “of course I do, why wouldn’t I miss you?” and I said, “because you haven’t told me you miss me, we’ve talked once a day all week, and you haven’t asked to see me me at all. He replied with, “why don’t you tell me you miss me? Why don’t you ask to see me? Why don’t you call me? Don’t you think I want to know that you miss me too?” I’m confused, and I want to know if it’s ok to do all this because it kind of seems to go against what is talked about on here? Is my man just weird? How do I get him to tell me he misses me so that I feel like putting more effort into the relationship? How do I address all this to him without pushing him away or making him withdraw from me? Help!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 8:41am

  253. 253: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Brittany 252

    Check post 154
    It is addressing your post 112, but I see that in post 112 half the content you pasted in 252 is missing. Your questions do not show in post 112.

    xxx

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:07am

  254. 254: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    252

    Check also posts 116 +114 +131

    xxx

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:13am

  255. 255: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    That’s strange, I can see it…from which part is it missing? I’ll past that part again

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:23am

  256. 256: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry my little novel here posted so many times…I walked away from it just to take a break from it and finish it later..I didn’t know it would just post like that grrr lol…Everything that I actually wanted to say is in the last post (number 252). Thanks guys!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:31am

  257. 257: jackieNo Gravatar says:

    I think I am getting all this wrong…. :) I have been seeing a man for 4 – 5 months. He has been quite reserved always, needed gentle ecouragement, took weeks to kiss me and all that. He has not ever been gushy or demonstrative in actions or words. I am used to full on, heavy relationships, and this has been so different. I nearly bailed a few times, on the basis it made me feel a little uncertain that he didnt give me a lot of signs he was really interested, but decided it was worth waiting to see if he was just taking it slow. We have a lot of common interests, i like him very much. A lot of the things that matter to me, he meets. He is funny, gentle, respectful, generous (not just to me) he treats waiting staff etc with friendly courtesy, tips well etc.

    Anyway – there have been a couple of occasions he has faded away for a couple of weeks – i didnt chase him or challenge him, just did the waiting, keeping busy thing. He has a business and two young children who he sees a lot of, so I have given him the benefit of the doubt and he seems to appreciate (unspoken) that I dont give him a hard time.

    It is having a toll on me though. Last couple of times I have seen him I have been a little quiet, I think if I saw him regularly and it felt more ‘real’ I would be more relaxed around him. But I have been completely unable to express that. He made a remark the other night along the lines of he doesnt want to end up in one of those relationships where the couple have nothing to say to each other. It felt like he was referring to us. I let it go – it was later I thought about it. If I had realised I could possibly have said ‘i know I am a little quiet, I have just felt a little unsure lately and it is making me feel a little shy around you again, as I can’t work out what is happening with us from week to week’ or words to that effect.

    +ve. He treats me perfectly when he is with me, pays, makes me laugh, is attentive, remembers all the wee things I tell him, really seems to care about me.

    -ve. He doesn’t keep in close contact between dates – only a few texts, and they are funny and warm, but not very romantic – especially not the last couple of weeks! I feel he has kept me at arms length the whole time, but with really mixed signals. I have never met any of his friends or he mine. I have never been to his house. (he did ask me once, way back, too soon. He has mentioned it since, but it didnt happen.) He has been to mine lots, so i feel I have tried to open up to him, and let him in, but he isnt reciprocating.

    I have thought again about ending it – it seems a shame to finish something that is lovely when i see him, but …. I dont feel I could call him if I needed something. By 4-5 months i want to know my man can see me to watch the football, go to see a band, but as it is going so slowly – I am unable to know that as I cant ask as he should be leading.

    Maybe our idea of what a relationship looks like doesnt match. Our styles of communication dont match.

    Should I have a conversation about it – or wait and see….? I am trying not to lead – but its going nowhere!!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:39am

  258. 258: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    LonePlum: in your response to my post (154) I’m not really sure what you’re getting at exactly. Maybe read my post 252, and clarify what exactly you mean?

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 10:18am

  259. 259: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    258: Brittany

    I don’t know :)

    I felt uneasy when I read he is doing small cheap mathematics. I read it as he wants 50/50
    That’s a red flag to me.
    From there I went on wondering what takers call 50/50 in a marriage. It usually means the woman gives a lot more of herself.

    He does what he wants, he would not be the only one. It does not make a monster out of him, but what set me off is the side of it that feels dishonest to me as I read it in the first post.
    I thought “May be if he had done that since the first day, Brittany would not be in love with him now, may be she would have not accepted to date him at all. May be she would be in love with another man who has only one real face to show”
    I thought “Why be different during 2 years , why be different during the dating period and so long?”
    Did he keep his fake face to win her heart? Or did something happen lately?
    Now she is in love, he takes his fake face off and says he wants to be paid back !!! That is so cheap. He wants her to court him back if she wants to see him. He caught her by taking care of her and now that she is well caught up he wants her to take care of him.”
    It feels like a trap.

    I feel scared when I think of a woman ready to marry a man who wants to be taken care of. She is putting herself up to feel unloved and to give a lot more than she receives.

    That was my first read of 112.

    OK, now
    Your new post 254 shows what he said in your last convo
    Which gives a different light on the situation.
    It could be that he never hears you say “I miss you” yet you ask him to say it.
    It could be that you are actually may be complaining?
    May be he did not express his uneasiness as in “I want 50/50”?
    What do you think? How did he present the changes he wants?

    Let’s start from the questions expressed in 254:
    Let’s say he calls you.

    You could say “Hi! It feels so good to hear you! I ‘ve missed you! I’ve been thinking of you.”
    (you mind your own bridge you tell your own feelings, you don’t ask him to have the feelings you want him to have)

    him “what did not you call then?”

    you “I trust you will call me when you miss me. It feels lovely when we miss each other and you call me.“
    (you tell him you miss him, he feels wanted, and at the same time you are telling you know he misses you. You show you feel secure, you don’t show neediness. But when you ask “don’t you miss me?” you express a doubt, an obligation, you don’t appreciate what he does, things are not going the way you want, you make him wrong, you are insecure and you don’t make him feel wanted. In short you are minding his bridge, you are reproaching and assuming the things happening in his mind.)

    him “What if I am waiting for you to make plans?”

    you “Well I am doing that just now. I made plans for Friday evening with you and a friend. “

    him “ I can’t. I’ve got plans already”

    you “I feel sad I am not included in your plans. I included you in mine.”

    Him ” you should have made plans with me”

    you “I assumed you were planning to meet me anyway; I did not think I should ask you first. I realize I should not assume.”

    Him “I want to meet you but I don’t want to meet that man”

    you “What can we do to improve my plan so you and I can meet? I miss you.”

    Try to avoid reproaches and negations like “don’t you miss me”
    “why don’t you call more often”
    “don’t you want to see me?”

    His reactions will be “what about you? If what I do is not good enough, then do it yourself and we’ll see if you feel happier or me”

    I also think now that he is jealous that for the first time you make a plan and it is not about him, it is about another man. And you are telling your boy friend he can eventually come along, but the plan is already made between the other man and you. Your boy friend might have felt left over.
    When he says ““well then you should have made plans with me”. He meant you should have booked that evening to be with him alone, not with your other friend.
    It might be why he did not suggest all week to meet you, to see if you would ask him out. But you asked out another man and then you told him you need him to come along. (from his point of view)

    xxx

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 3:33pm

  260. 260: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    I just figgered out the party has moved to a new page! LOL! Been a busy day out and about!

    Saturday, 21 May 2011 @ 9:48pm

  261. 261: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    259 LonePlum: Yea, I see what you mean. It’s funny that you said, “what about you? If what I do is not good enough, then do it yourself and we’ll see if you feel happier or me” because last night when he took me out to the drive-in, he said something along those lines. He said, “I’ve done EVERYTHING for you for 2 years and got nothing in return. Then even if I do all these things for you, you still complain that I’m not doing enough. I’m tired of feeling that heartache. So, I want things to be different. I’m going to put as much effort into the relationship as you do”. He said, “as much as I love you, I want you to see what I do, and I want to feel like you love me as much as I love you”. So I guess I see where he is coming from, and what you said helped me see it more clearly. Thank you.

    Sunday, 22 May 2011 @ 3:15pm

  262. 262: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Brittany – wow… I would feel taken aback and scared

    According to Rori, Being ‘understanding and nice’ doesn’t work – we want to go straight to feeling messages while being non blaming and compassionate.

    So what did you Feel?

    I would feel afraid of losing him and kinda bad and like defending myself.

    I’d feel sad and not good enough.

    That’s what I’d say:

    Wow… I feel… Taken aback… I feel surprised and… Bad. I feel sad and terrible to head this. I understand you and… I feel like defending myself… I’m feeling misunderstood and … Scared to lose our connection and… Kinda angry. I don’t want to feel this way. What do you think?

    Ok any couple of those feelings would be enough , shorter is better.

    ‘Wow I feel taken aback… ‘ works.

    Monday, 23 May 2011 @ 1:24am

  263. 263: BrittanyNo Gravatar says:

    Daria- I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand what you mean?

    Monday, 23 May 2011 @ 2:08pm

  264. 264: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    148 LP

    He’s not coming. He didn’t tell me, either. Third party told me. I ran into one of his former best friends at a local festival this weekend. Said he can’t come, because he now has to work.

    I feel pretty angry. No call, no text, no communication. I don’t feel grounded enough to call him and state how I feel. Would it even be appropriate to contact him, or should I just go quiet? Grrr…

    Monday, 23 May 2011 @ 3:41pm

  265. 265: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    LP, FW, Boomer, anyone??

    I really need advice on my last post. I feel paralyzed as to what to do. So far, I’ve leaned back and have done nothing. He was due to arrive in a couple of days.

    Tuesday, 24 May 2011 @ 2:19pm

  266. 266: TmizzNo Gravatar says:

    Janjune – re #179 Thank you!

    I think I’m getting better at it…

    Wednesday, 25 May 2011 @ 12:14am

  267. 267: jennyNo Gravatar says:

    how to know if a guy likes you?

    and is it okay to talk about ur ex with the guy u like?

    Wednesday, 25 May 2011 @ 1:20pm

  268. 268: MaryNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Rori. Ive been reading your blog, articles, and book and they are amazing. I have been with my boyfriend for just over a year now and I am constantly unhappy. I am not his number one priority…or number 2..or 3…or 6…maybe 11ish. He will makes plans with me and then bail as soon as something “better” comes up with his buddies, or work, or family, or roommates. I have been trying so hard to communicate the way it makes me feel (angry, sad, etc.) but he get defensive and when he gets like this he says really mean things. I try to keep the focus on me and how I feel and that I just want to express that but he says im making him feel bad and the whole thing is turned around on me. I know I deserve better and that Im allowing him to treat me this way.This has been happening for the past couple months… i love him and despite what i know i should do.. i dont want to let him go. Can you help? please…ive run out of options :/

    Friday, 27 May 2011 @ 9:42am

  269. 269: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mary I have read where Rori says giving up might be your best option.

    Friday, 27 May 2011 @ 9:51am

  270. 270: AngieNo Gravatar says:

    …such a nice move…

    Saturday, 28 May 2011 @ 9:18am

  271. 271: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 265 Terry sorry I just realized I missed this. Did he arrive? What did you eventually decide? If not I am still not convinced I would contact him. Well maybe the day after he was scheduled to arrive. I sense that if this is an old friend he might have mentioned to someone that he would be visiting you. Or someone in his family might contact you to let you know if something bad had happened to him. I am sorry if this is the wrong answer but I honestly sense no urgency here. What is your gut feeling?

    Saturday, 28 May 2011 @ 9:22am

  272. 272: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    RE 271 Thanks, FW. Well, as I stated in 264, he decided not to come, but didn’t let me know. I found out through a mutual friend.

    So far, I’ve been quiet. My gut feeling? I don’t feel comfortable contacting him. His behavior feels rude and I don’t want to validate it with any contact on my end. He knows his conduct is wrong and doesn’t need me to tell him. Sigh… I will just quietly drift away.

    Thanks for responding, FW.

    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 @ 8:37am

  273. 273: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Terry the anger is an indication, in my opinion, that there was some expectation on your part. In any event he might have expected more from you also and not want to incur additional expenses with the hotel and at the end of the trip not “score” per se. A coach says “those rejections are God’s protection”. It is what it is and things happen for a reason. I would in your shoes look at how I am being, what I was expecting and ask myself some hard questions if this is what I want or deserve in the long run? You might have accepted bad behavior from him in the past and so he might not feel obligated to provide any explanation. That is his business though. Yours is to take care of yourself and open up yourself to what you want in your life.

    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 @ 9:11am

  274. 274: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    FW, I understand what you’re saying. And for anonymity reasons I’ve left out specific details. Bottom line: the guy asked me to reserve Memorial wkend for his visit, including asking me to pick him up at the airport.

    Male or female, it’s courtesy to inform someone you’re not coming. If I had any expectations they were either (1) he follow through with the plans or (2) inform me at some point that they’d changed.

    And no, behavior like that is nothing I want for my future in the long run. Good riddance.

    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 @ 9:39am

  275. 275: TerryNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks again, FW

    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 @ 9:39am

  276. 276: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 274 Terry I totally agree and also about the curtesy. However because we are also learning about ourselves in relationships my suggestion was to look at what this triggered for you internally for future reference. Please remember you have the power here and when he “asked me to reserve Memorial wkend for his visit, including asking me to pick him up at the airport” you had the option of saying no to him. This is boundary setting and I am looking at myself here. I tend to do such things and end up resentful. Just this past weekend a guy acted very cold towards me. Someone who has asked me repeatedly to pick up his daughter at the airport and keep her at my house sometimes, even when I am at work. I was talking to a friend about it on Sunday and I asked her if she thinks it is me. Her response, “no he is a user”. She has had the same experience with him.

    For me I get to look at myself and make choices now where I never did in the past. No use being resentful because I have to take some responsibility there.

    Tuesday, 31 May 2011 @ 10:08am

  277. 277: Princess KittenNo Gravatar says:

    Did I lean forward?? I have been studying Rori’s techniques for 9 months. In a “leaning back” sort-of-way I got in contact with a man with whom I experienced and very confusing, hurtful, sudden break-up. After 6 months of no contact I initiated contact by sending him a simple text that said “it would feel good to see you”. I am certain that was leaning forward, but I feel I had to do it in order to have to ability to begin a “reconnect”. So… that, I know was probably leaning forward. He responded positively, within 3 minutes. And…. we’ve been in communication for the past 2 months. Things have been going kinda delicately. I feel I’m careful to not lean forward and I talk feelings constantly. I can sometimes tell that he is a bit taken aback by the “new” me and the way I communicate now. He will let my feeling, soft, I-love-myself messages go uncommented for a while, but he will initiate the next contact and say something that invites more communication. That feels like progress to me.

    But, I want to know if this is leaning forward: He and I used to go on little weekend trips. 2 days ago, I sent him a Happy Father’s Day message and told him how I’m reminded of when we traveled last Father’s Day weekend and wrote how it felt good to do that and said it was fun. I told him ” I would like to do those trips again” and I asked him what did he think. Ok… Was that leaning forward?

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 7:46pm

  278. 278: MattinaNo Gravatar says:

    hello, sirens, i have been dating this guy in a long distance relationship for about 11 months.. on my last visit there he started pulling back becuz of things unforeseen like my car breaking down and having to borrow money from his father so i can get my car out of the shop.. he then told me that he wanted the opportunity to see other ppl.. of course i was a basket case and wish now that i remembered Rori’s speech in reconnect but i didn’t at the time.. what felt confusing was that he said he still wanted to see me and talk to me everyday and basically wanted everything to stay the same except he wanted this opportunity.. the other day he told me that i shouldn’t worry about anything becuz it has always been me right from the first time we met, he felt i was being pushy and pushing the relationship and this was the only he felt he could do to make me lean back.. i revisited the reconnect series and i do understand what he was talking about.. so now i am using these tools.. and saying feeling messages in everything i say and it is working wonderful.. i’m doing the leaning back and he’s doing the leaning forward.. it has been great.. now he is noticing that i am saying a lot of things in feeling messages and he said .. where do you come up with these expressions.. Rori said not to tell our man about our course so i said idk, i was picturing what he was saying to me and that’s how i felt.. so i said that feels great .. good idea.. (it was about him taking down a tree and trimming the branches before he moves it so it doesn’t hit the chicken coop).. and it did feel great since i paid for that chicken coop.. anyways.. has anyone experienced this? should i back off with these feeling messages cuz they are working so wonderfully and he is doing the Rori dance very well.. i just dont want him to start leaning back cuz of too many feeling messages.. is that possible? i feel great saying these feeling messages becuz it gets me in touch with myself and i feel so connected with myself that i have never felt before.. any advice or comments would be great.. :-)

    Tuesday, 28 June 2011 @ 1:25pm

  279. 279: JeenisanaNo Gravatar says:

    hi all. i was just reading all the comments. i am new to all this. and i have made all the mistakes listed in the ebook and more. I was in a relationship with this man and then all of a sudden he stopped calling and texting and never gave me an explanation for what was wrong? i tried asking him, wrote him letters and just never got a response from him. it was so hurtful and i was in such a dark place for so long. its was so frustrating. and have just recently learned after so many people and including some psychics have told me to start putting myself first. and start taking of me. so true! but so hard sometimes. my question is this. this man that i love is almost stopped totally seeing me. he only texts once in a while and recently asked to see me via text. how to i handle that? do i reply and if i reply back how do i do it in a easy going non aggressive way and let him know i would like to see him without losing my power or making him feel like i am still waiting around for him. i want him to do that!! i didnt reply to that text but instead sent something completely off the wall about what i was doing. he has had a habit of coming and drifting away now for the last 6 months. i have been dating other men, but to be honest, we had such great chemistry and yes we really got along well. he is a terrible communicator when i am not with him. hardly calls now. and mostly texts and those are sporadic. what would you recommend as advice. how can i get him back in my life if i never see him at all. how can i use the tools in the book if i never see him. we always said we would be best friends forever but even that seems to be gone now. i am practicing letting go of him and putting my thoughts in other directions and working on myself best i can. and i have achieved some headway there. i am more relaxed and i feel good. but there is an ache inside for him that never goes away. Should i text him honestly that it would be nice to see him and then leave it at that? thanks for listening. any advice or comments would be great :)

    Friday, 29 July 2011 @ 11:23am

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