When He’s Mad At You – Is He Just Mad At Himself?

In my experience (not to say this is always the truth) a man will get mad at you when he feels bad about something.

Sometimes he’s done something to hurt you, or he’s cheating, or he’s lying, and sometimes he just feels bad and guilty because he’s done something or is about to do something so very minor that he knows, nevertheless, is stressing you and not making you happy.

The range of this is the same as the range of his good or dicey character, his ability to communicate, how much in touch he is with his own feelings and workings.

As always, putting a man on the defensive makes things harder – he’ll just back up and clam up more…so this is where we have to go FIRST in the opening-up department – be vigilant about Feeling Messages. (Feeling Messages are the most basic, most profound Tool in all my work – they will change your life in days. Even if you think you know how to use them properly from this blog and my eletters – you need my Have The Relationship You Want ebook to really understand how to write them in advance and practice them. It’s a workbook, so you’ll be able to learn to write your own, unique Feeling Messages down for the most common situations you encounter…Try it…)

If what you want in your relationship is “radical honesty” – and that’s just about the most powerful thing you can create in a relationship – then that’s what you want to talk about.

You want to talk about how that feels to you and what it looks like – and you start with YOU being radically honest about YOU.

Most of the time, a man doesn’t know what’s going on with him and why he feels bad…but sometimes it’s something he knows he’s doing.

Regardless – if he’s getting mad at you and feeling unusually sensitive and defensive – he’s doing something or thinking something he’s not feeling good about.

Perhaps the men on the blob here can talk about this a bit… how “attack mode” seems to be a human condition, across the board, and how it works in men, in their personal experience.

I know I get “cranky when I feel bad about myself, something I’ve done, a way I’m feeling. I turn it on myself, and I turn it on others – and all I have between me and going down that rabbit hole is my commitment to AWARENESS.

I don’t need to figure out what’s going on with me – but if I’m feeling vulnerable to “attack” and feeling like “attacking” (or a sense of urgency – that’s a great clue) – if I can just become aware of it and sink down into – I’ll start to feel more and discover what’s going on and go through it quickly.

Love, Rori

To share this post:Share on FacebookShare on Google+Pin on PinterestTweet about this on TwitterShare on TumblrDigg thisEmail this to someoneShare on Reddit

written by Permalink

671 Comments to “When He’s Mad At You – Is He Just Mad At Himself?”

  1. 1: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Good morning! OK, off to work now… :(

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:09am

  2. 2: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    I haven’t experienced my guy getting mad yet, but everyone once in awhile when we are having a quiet moment together, he will say “I wish I knew what you are thinking”. Sometimes I don’t really think I am thinking anything, just feeling happy in the moment. I guess I need to open up more and say exactly that.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:13am

  3. 3: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for this post Rori. Hopefully the guys will chime in.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:43am

  4. 4: Paula0126No Gravatar says:

    Not that I have had many relationships for comparison, but I do know now, in retrospect, with the man I have been in a serious [IMAGINARY] relationship with, I realized he was consistently, regularly, mad “at me” because he had already been cheating on me. I stayed in this really dysfunctional, hurtful and verbally abusive relationship for over three years. Towards the end of our third year together, when I would come visit him, he would criticize me and insult me. Here are some examples of the things he said to me “are you lying down on the couch again?! Is that all you’re going to do?! Sleep?! That’s why you’re so fat!” Yes, I admit I was overweight, but not “so fat” as he would describe me. Not a very loving thing to say, right? And this was after I already advised him that I may be taking naps mid-day because I have been traveling outside the country and is still jetlagged. When I came to get up from the couch, he then said, “Ugh! Nevermind! Get back to bed!” and stormed out of the room. No apologies at all afterwards. Nothing. Same day, just a couple of hours later, while having lunch, he said “you eat crappy food! and because of you, I am also eating crappy food!” (he’s a vegetarian). Mind you, he has no job, no money, I pay for the groceries when I would visit so he cannot say I am a burden and even give extra money for the water and electricity which he accepted. So there I was, eating lunch with tears flowing down my cheeks. I cried so often and so regularly that my tears eventually became less salty (yes! I could literally “taste the difference!”). Fast forward maybe 15 minutes later after lunch, he then says “when you’re here, I really couldn’t do anything! You completely disrupt my schedule!” Note: when I come for a visit, I just follow his lead. If he wants to listen to his show, I let him. I cannot even watch anything on tv, because he said I should be out exercising, and that’s why I am fat, because that’s what all I did was lie down and watch tv or eat. I could go on and on, but long story short, I found out later that he was already communicating with another woman, well, many women, and was arranging to meet one of them on the day on my birthday. He wanted me to get mad. He wanted me to respond with the same hostility and anger. I eventually did. I cannot take anymore of the insults, the DELIBERATE insults, designed to make me out to be the “bad partner,” so he can possibly justify the “cheating” or the intended cheating. It is important for me to say though that this is an EXTREME example – this is a combination of Mr. Toxic and Ms. Low Self-Esteem in a truly TOXIC relationship. I believe there are MORE good men that there are “toxic” men. I also believe that there are also some “toxic men,” who are just there temporarily, but they are not “forever” toxic. Men have deep and profound feelings just like us, women, I think, and they also want to love and be loved. The lesson learned for me though is, it first starts with me. I have to love myself and honor myself just as I am right now. NOT 10, 15 or 20 pounds from now, but right now. I know what I want and what I want is to be loved and treasured as the beautiful person that I am. I am at that point now, working on really appreciating me. Though I am taking a hiatus from a relationship, I am not doing it out of fear of dating or hating men, I am doing it simply because I recognize that for so long, I have loved everyone else except me. I know I will soon be ready to start dating, or, circular dating, as Rori would say and I am actually quite excited about that. Next time, I know to pay attention to when the man I am wit is “mad” or upset with me and bravely express how he is making me feel. I know I am at a place now too that if after giving that man my 100% and he or the relationship, is not in a place where I need him to be, I know I will find the love (for myself and him) to move on. He may not be the right man for me, but for someone else and that’s okay. Love and Light and Joy to you all! :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:53am

  5. 5: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, Paula, how brave of you to put this story out there. I feel touched.

    And there’s a message in it for me…love yourself NOW. Despite my seeming confidence (and I admit, occasional bravado), I struggle with just accepting and loving myself as I am, no improvements or tweaks required, deeply and profoundly. I still look in the mirror every night and say those words to myself hoping it will stick soon.

    If you are new…welcome! If you have not been here in awhile (you seem to talk the talk!), then it’s nice to meet you on here.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:21am

  6. 6: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Paula, awesome story YAY you…


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:23am

  7. 7: DENo Gravatar says:

    Yes, Rori…this is soo awesome

    “I don’t need to figure out what’s going on with me – but if I’m feeling vulnerable to “attack” and feeling like “attacking” (or a sense of urgency – that’s a great clue) – if I can just become aware of it and sink down into – I’ll start to feel more and discover what’s going on and go through it quickly.”

    I don’t need to figure it out…
    I must notice and sink down into my feelings…

    Today, I will listen again to your Reconnect program…I feel tuned into it :)

    Warm hugs,

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:25am

  8. 8: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Paula I am amazed at your strength. Loving ourselves is a challenge but it feels great once we start doing it. I am on my journey also.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:31am

  9. 9: AmazingMeNo Gravatar says:

    Paula wow what an amazing and touching story. No woman needs to put up with that. You are so much better and worth so much more one day you will find that man that appreciates you for you. Until then focus on you and your life, take baby steps to work on things about yourself and or your life. It is the confidence and love for yourself that will not attract any man like that. Not only you won’t put up with it but you spot them real quick. Listen to your heart and gut instinct, you will never have to be in that situation again because you are in charge of you and it is your life. Best wishes…xoxoxox

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:36am

  10. 10: AmazingMeNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry to ramble sirens I just felt triggered with this man, who does a man think he is when he speaks or treats a woman like that! It happened to me maybe more of us but never again because I am worth it! I am the fresh ripe apple at the very top of the tree and whatever brave man is strong enough to get me will be the one :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:39am

  11. 11: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Amazing – yes you ARE all that! Love, Rori

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:57am

  12. 12: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    DE – Great! Let me know how you like the “New Normal” stuff in there…Love, Rori

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:58am

  13. 13: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Paula, Thank you so much for your story…You sound in a totally great place, insightful, and ready to love you…Brava to you, and love to you, Rori

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 9:03am

  14. 14: orkidNo Gravatar says:

    hi Rori,
    as above u text almost 99% it’s happen to me now..
    i really don’t know what to do to get back him n close with me as normaly… but he is good guy n i jealous girl… n this is my wrong cuz always happen
    how can u help me? im so sad n worried bout this, can u reply me by email?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 9:07am

  15. 15: Paula0126No Gravatar says:

    Hi Everyone,

    Thanks so much for the kind words of support and encouragement! I can feel your love and it is very heart-warming. I shared my story so that others may hopefully learn from it.

    Boomer, thanks for the welcome note. I know how you feel about the “struggle” to love yourself. We have been so used to loving other people that we don’t know how to love ourselves. I think that at the very least, we should love ourselves enough to know when to leave, to recognize that the relationship we are in is not healthy for us.

    Tinque and Femininewoman thank you for your kind notes! It feels like getting a big warm hug!

    AmazingMe, thank you for the support and for the advice. I am okay now. I am honoring my Inner Goddess and the Beautiful Enchanting Siren with me every day. Like I said, he is an extreme example. I am getting to a place where I can just thank him for the lesson, for showing me the kind of qualities in a man that I do NOT want to attract and he has not only provided me with a long list of what these qualities are but he has likewise provided me with the tools and signs on how to recognize the subtle signs of such qualities.

    Rori, thank you so much for your personal note and thank YOU for your life and experience and sharing them with us. I have learned so much. I read your ri’s blog regularly and I find your words as well as the experiences of other women from the blog to be very helpful. I have your e-book and the Modern Siren program and saving up to get the other programs as well. Hearing the exchanges from the blog and the kind support of other women feels to me like we are sirens playing, talking and bathing in the meadows or the beach (as your had beautifully visualized for us in her Modern Siren CD). This blog feels like a safe place to just get our love tank re-charged. Thank you again, everyone!

    SO sorry for the long post! LOVE to you all!

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 9:42am

  16. 16: orkidNo Gravatar says:

    i want get that ebook but how?
    cuz i don’t have credit card and i from Malaysia

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 10:22am

  17. 17: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:



    You GO with your Siren self, Sister!



    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 10:25am

  18. 18: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Paula, I can relate to your experience (my ex-husband was verbally and physically abusive.) I’m glad to hear that you’re away from it.

    This is a great place to come for support and encouragement. There are many ways to heal and start loving ourselves—but Rori’s work speaks to me the way nothing else ever has at this level. Before I found her, I had very little hope that I would ever be able to ‘change’ and/or have a decent relationship.

    Boomer, I hear ya. I keep thinking I’ll feel better (love myself more) when I lose about 20 pounds. I’m working on it—but you and Paula are so right. I have to love myself FIRST. I think I confuse thoughts with feelings when I look at myself. I become judgemental (too fat, too old, too short, too______) but that comes from my thoughts. I need to FEEL love for myself. Hmmmm…..

    Learning that a “sense of urgency” is a sign that I need to STOP—and use some ‘tools’—instead of forging ahead unprepared from a place of fear is REALLY helping me. (Sometimes it feels like a place of anger–but there’s always something underneath the anger…and for me, it’s usually fear.)

    Baby-steps….progress not perfection…and a few more baby steps… :-)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 12:40pm

  19. 19: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:


    I hope you’re feeling happy and loved while starting this new chapter of your life. Just want you to know I’m thinking of you…

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 12:42pm

  20. 20: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FlowerChild…let’s check in with each other periodically and see if we are telling ourselves how much we accept ourselves!

    I “tap” on it, and it really gives me goosebumps (literally and figuratively, I suppose), how much I respond to the suggestion that I am freakin’ fabulous and worthy and deeply loved.

    I am slowly getting to the point where I believe me.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 12:47pm

  21. 21: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:


    I think of you often, crossing my fingers that your silence means you overcame the procrastination because you are happily busy with your friend, meeting new acquaintances, a new job and all that.
    I literally imagine love meeting you around the corner.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 12:57pm

  22. 22: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth 349

    ***says things to me about me with contempt in his voice. I couldn’t think of a good word to describe it other than contemptuous. I don’t care if he is kidding or has a dark sense of humor. I don’t like it.It feels like he is trying to “tame me” in a non-benevolent way. ***

    I think in terms of “tame” since the day I’ve read in french “the little prince” from Antoine De Saint-Exupéry.
    I was 10, and it was an assignment in school. I was in Africa, like the pilot in the book.
    I did not like it at first, found it boring. It was a man’s imagination, once more, like most books we were told to read in school.

    Years later in a different country, I was going through a terrible heart break. I was 23.
    One day, I was sat at a friend’s house waiting for her, when my eyes spoted a book, resting on a side table, by my chair. I picked it up. It was “the little prince”, in Spanish. I read it all in one go. Nobody disturbed me, and I forgot I was not even in my home. When I put the book back down on the side table, I was a different woman.
    I was understanding my feelings. I went to buy a copy to keep with me for ever.

    When I was 29, I was pregnant, my husband was away on an international tour, and I went to a library. I bumped onto the little prince in English. I sat there on the floor, in the library, and read it in one go.
    It put another new light on my life yet again. Different from the last time I had read it, but as fulfilling.

    It is a magical book.

    I put the 3 versions in my baby’s room for her to pick them up in any time of her life.

    The book originally written in french uses the word “apprivoiser”.
    “To tame”.
    “ Apprivoiser” means: A is attracted by B, he wants to tame B. He does not want to posses her, he wants her to trust him, to want to be with him.
    A is the one who provides the ritual that will bring the feeling of safety.
    B is the one who handles the time.
    B takes all the time in the world to decide if she feels safe enough to let A step in her vital space.
    B’s reactions tell A when he can approach or not. Taming is about freedom, trust, respect, and patience.

    May be you mean something else, like “dompter” in french.
    “To master”.
    Like when you force a wild horse to get used to men and to work for them. You touch the horse’s body before he trusts you, before he wants you to. You force him to accept your touch. You ride him against his will, to start with. And he will accept you ride him only when he understands that he cannot get rid of you and he has no more strength to fight you. After which you reward him and prove to him he gets to be taken care of when he cooperates. He grows to remember he will get food and care.

    Yet I think what your “friend” does is not “dompter” nor “apprivoiser”.
    It is “briser”, “to crush” the animal spirit or the woman self esteem.
    Probably another wounded man yet…


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 1:14pm

  23. 23: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    Hi all, I’m new here. I just finished watching Targeting Mr. Right… and it was so weird how at least twice during I found myself crying.

    I was seeing a guy for 3 months earlier this year and about 6 weeks ago, out of the blue, he ended it. It was literally one day we were fine and the next, he was gone. I was blindsided. To confuse things for me further, he had begun saying The Three Words to me about 3 weeks before that, and I truly believed he was sincere. I still do believe he meant it, on some level.

    Anyway, it was really interesting as I watched TMR to recognize how many things I was actually doing “right,” according to Rori’s concepts, and how few I was doing “wrong,” all without even knowing it.

    And worse yet, after the breakup, we were still seeing each other 1-2 times a week (at work) and I was leaning back from him, not blatantly ignoring him, but just being too busy doing my own thing to notice him. And it made him bristle, but then I effed it all up by talking to him. So now I don’t know what to do.

    To use a FM, I feel confused.

    But I’m going to do the work and CDate until I figure it out.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 1:44pm

  24. 24: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    wow i feel awed again at myself

    how gently i am treating myself as i feel my triggers with these men

    yay me

    thank you

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 1:52pm

  25. 25: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    lol what do you guys think of signing up on richmen.com it’s free for women

    i feel kinda excited thinking about it hehe

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 1:54pm

  26. 26: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Hi LobbyStar. I’m rather new here also, but I’m sure the other Sirens can offer up some words of wisdom and suggestions about which ‘tools’ might serve you best–although it sounds like you’re well on your way :-)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 1:55pm

  27. 27: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    From Dr Pat Allen
    Conversational rape

    Chapter 7


    ___BILL: I’m going to take you out this weekend and
    show you what a really good time is…ha, ha!
    ___MARY: But, Bill, I already have a date.
    ___BILL: Break it.
    ___MARY: Okay, Bill. I’ll do it for you.


    Rape Analysis:
    Bill exhibits the type of performance oriented behavior common to Macho-Super Jocks.
    He is dominating, intimidating, insensitive, pushy, grabby, any and all terms of this nature.

    In effect, however, Bill is probably very frightened and wants to deal with these feelings by over compensating.
    Therefore, he steamrollers Mary.

    She is allowing herself to be raped into a Daisy Daffodil passive position because now she can say,
    “It’s not my fault, he raped me.”

    Mary feigns helplessness when she says,
    “But Bill, but Bill,”
    and Bill overrides her protests, giving Mary the excuse of having been socially raped because he is so pushy.
    In the eventual long-run scheme, however, Bill is the one who would be raped because he would be responsible for Mary and her rape, and the rape of the guy she was supposed to date in the first place.

    In blaming the whole situation on Bill, Mary can collect her angry stamps, and continue her games with other men.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:01pm

  28. 28: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Straight Talk

    Were this conversation effectively restated, Bill and Mary could conceivably talk as follows:

    ___BILL: Mary, I want to take you out this weekend
    if you’re available.
    ___MARY: I appreciate your invitation. The fact is, I
    already have a date. Are you willing to ask me
    ___BILL: Sure.

    In the case of women relating to each other, and men, some women control with passivity.
    It is significant and important for a woman to respect a man.
    Since Bill has taken the risk of pursuing or reaching out to Mary, she has a choice.
    She can be helpless and passive or she can be active, self-controlled, and responsible for herself. The latter choice disallows games.

    By her sensitive responsiveness and consideration for his feelings, Mary rejects the invitation respectfully, promoting a willingness on Bill’s part to reach out to her as a woman in the future.

    Macho Super-Jock Bill tends to be very attractive to Daisy Daffodil Mary, in that Daisy is totally in charge of feelings, and Super-Jock is totally in charge of thinking.
    Between the two of them, they become one person.

    On the reverse side, Bertha Balls, or the very performance oriented woman is very attracted to David Daffodil, a very passive character man, in the same way that macho and Daisy are attracted.

    Relationships are based either on rational systems or emotional systems.

    If they’re based on rational systems then the man and woman complement, but do not replace, each other.
    In that way, the man brings a performance process system and woman brings a process performance system into the relationship.
    Both have permission to feel.
    He and she each have a separate responsibility to see that their particular side of the fence is in good repair.
    The man is in charge of problem solving and the woman is in charge of the feeling level.

    In this way, no performance is done which may cause her significant pain and eventually reflect negatively on his performance.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:02pm

  29. 29: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Here is another sweet talk conversation:


    ___ALICE: (On the third date) . . . Joe, it’s okay if
    you spend the night rather than drive home.
    ___JOE: Sounds nice, Alice, where do I sleep?
    ___ALICE: Wherever you want.


    Rape Analysis:
    Alice is a pursuer, a performance oriented female. She needed stroking and has opted to use the male system of dynamic pursuit over the female system of magnetic attraction to obtain those strokes.

    In her undercover message, which she has conveyed at the lower game level, she is inviting Joe to play with her sexually.

    Many women allow the intimacy or intercourse when what they really want, are strokes of friendly affection-TLC.

    One of the big promotional abuses in the world today is that women can experience intimate intercourse indiscriminately without hurting themselves.
    Since women are feel-thinkers and need to be safe and trusting for true sexual surrender, a woman who either invites or allows fast sex runs the risk of desensitizing herself to a total orgasmic experience.

    In this dialogue, Bertha Balls Alice is herself being raped of her rights to be a woman.

    She’s not allowing herself to be sensitive, to move slowly, to be courted and pursued by a risk-taking male who knows how to solve problems, knows what he wants and goes after it.
    And our friend, passive David Daffodil Joe is now in the magnificent power position of receiving all of this deep generosity promoted by Bertha.

    Sadly, Bertha is really promoting Daffodil Joe’s passivity.
    Also, Joe’s negative attitude for women, as objects, things to user and play with, is promoted.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:02pm

  30. 30: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Straight Talk

    It is my experience that men want to solve problems so that they feel very, very self-reliant.
    They want to feel in charge, in control, responsible, when they do the performance pursuing.

    When Joe is pursued he does not go through the process of problem solving.
    Therefore, he is actually at the mercy of Alice, which in effect undermines his masculinity and promotes his negativity.

    He distrusts her and he will, in effect, use her, abuse
    her, and then leave her for a woman who loves herself more than Alice does.

    In this new choice, Joe has entrusted his feelings to a woman who loves herself enough to be considered
    a worthy trustee of his love feelings.

    Falling in love takes time, it takes effort, but the value is more enduring.

    Relationships are constructed on two different systems.

    One system is very definitely protective, the friendship foundation system.
    It protects the sensitivities of both parties and also
    allows the rational experience of the two elements of compatibility and communication.

    The other system is based on chemical communication between two sensuous people who are more interested in “thing” body strokes than in spiritual love, sharing, and care strokes.

    As long as both people want the same thing, they will be okay.
    The risk comes when one wants love strokes and the
    other wants lust.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:02pm

  31. 31: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    People often go to bed in order to eliminate intimacy, because it creates risk-taking pain.

    The massive modern fascination with sexual-chemistry relationships places compatible communication second.

    Relationships based on friendship place compatibility and communication first, and chemistry second.

    Eventually, if the chemistry is there, the inherent negotiation of compatibility and communication will allow the sexual experience in a safe, loving way.

    In consideration of the male, all too often today’s man is being promoted to perform sexually.
    They are ending up with all kinds of sexual dysfunction that they’ve never had before.

    As I said before, when a man solves his problems, he feels more potent and he’s correspondingly more sexually potent as well.
    He is in charge of the situation and when he’s in charge of the situation and behavior, then the female part of him feels safe.

    When a man pursues a woman and he pursues her by being a trustworthy, honorable person then he, in effect, can relax and enjoy himself.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:03pm

  32. 32: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    However, a man who has been seduced, raped, and
    manipulated by his woman into thinking he’s responsible for giving her orgasms, is a raped man.

    His problem will be manifested variably, from premature ejaculation to seminal retention, to impotence.

    When the job is not performed, it’s because he knows he shouldn’t perform it.
    The accomplishment is not good for him.
    Don’t blame yourself because you didn’t get the job

    For example, in terms of the premature ejaculator, you’re saying that you had better get your compatibility, friendship and love factors lined up because the chemistry is being damaged.

    Seminal retainers are hanging on.
    You’re really saying that you don’t want to surrender.
    You don’t want to give because there is something inappropriate about the person you are with or, it may be that you have still not resolved about your fear of demanding, taking women.

    Psychologically, the easiest understood sexual dysfunction is impotence.
    Impotence is saying, “I won’t and you can’t make me do it, lady.”

    Men, since they are very much interested in performance, are in charge of the concrete world. They see a pretty body: they want to touch it.
    That is very concrete.
    Women, on the other hand, are in charge of the abstract, spiritual world, and they, in fact, are very much into not being touched unless they feel safe.

    So, when a man sees a pretty girl he responds to her
    When a woman sees a man, she thinks about his
    likability, his lovability.

    When two needy people relate we say they are symbiotic, parasitic.
    They need each other to fulfill themselves.

    Healthy people want each other but do not need.

    I say that people come in two varieties; one shouldering the question “Who am I?” and the other directly an “I,” i.e., “I am myself and I know who I am.”

    Symbiotic people simply do not share.
    They, give, they take but they do not share.
    One is a giver and the other a taker.

    In a sharing relationship, there is also give and take. Additionally they also ask for and refuse from time to time.
    Importantly, however, in a sharing relationship each individual predominantly takes care of themselves first.

    Independent people are internally secure.
    Their childhood were stable and they now feel well loved by people.
    When they seek intimacy, they do so with the capacity to share that love with other people.

    The person who is not internally secure is anxious, constantly looking for love and a safe environment.
    When they find what they think they are looking for, they latch on, creating a mutually needy dependent relationship.
    Both lose, as both people continue to promote a lack of independence or “I” centeredness.

    Straight talk:

    ______ALICE: Joe, I enjoyed our date tonight, and I
    don’t want to feel afraid for your safety. Will
    you be careful when you drive home?
    ______JOE: It was nice, Alice, and I’ll be careful. When
    can I see you again?

    End of chapter 7

    Dr Pat Allen


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:03pm

  33. 33: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Boomer/#20—Yes, let’s! :-)

    Is the tapping helping you? I’ve tried it, but to be honest I’m not regular enough about it–haven’t given it an honest go.

    I think this extra weight is from ‘eating my feelings’ and also age related. BUT I’m not going to tell myself that I can’t lose it because of hormones, etc. (It’s hard not to buy into this, though, when every magazine article seems to talk about middle age weight gain and how hard it is to lose it when you’re in peri-menopause, etc.)

    I certainly can stop ‘eating my feelings’ but it’s hard. I’ve been soothing myself with food ever since I can remember. Something I need to work on, for sure.


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:05pm

  34. 34: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FlowerChild..I completely understand stuffing down feelings wit food. Only int eh last year have I started to slowly lose the “baby weight” (she’s eight!) by making subtle changes. Feeling better about myself is the real secret, I think!

    I’ll check in with you soon…oh, the tapping…I am sporadic too, but I feel good when I do it.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:18pm

  35. 35: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Thanks, LonePlum, for posting these conversations. I didn’t get it, at first, about Mary saying she already had a date. Are we REALLY supposed to ASK them to ask us again? That sounds like leaning forward. If he really wants to see us won’t he ask again on his own? I’m confused.

    Of course, I see that the guy insisting we stand up another man to go out with him is controlling, rude and wrong.

    I have so much to learn.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 2:59pm

  36. 36: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    35 FlowerChild77,

    It feels like the solution would be boundaries. Mary could say ‘i’d love to. but i’m busy, how about thurs, fri, or sunday?’

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:04pm

  37. 37: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    I feel judged that my friends say I focus too much on finding a guy.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:05pm

  38. 38: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Without offending you or making you angry—maybe they are trying to help you—as in: If the vibe you’re putting out is that you lack a guy and you focus on that quite a bit it will work against you. (LOA)

    Your friends really have no right to judge you and you definitely don’t have to like it—but can you quietly thank them (to yourself, if need be) for bringing your attention to this? Can you look for the lesson and feel gratitude for the awareness created?

    A graceful way to respond might be to say, “Hmmm. Do you really think so? Maybe you’re right.” That’s all you have to say (if you feel like you have to say anything at all.)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:22pm

  39. 39: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Sirenspiration for the day. You Don’t Have To Be Perfect.


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:27pm

  40. 40: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Wow! I just happened to come across an old post of Rori’s that speaks directly to what’s going on in my “marriage” right now.


    “If a man stops treating us, or never did treat us, beautifully as we deserve – we can get bored with him. The co-dependent, pining, waffling, insecure part of us that was throwing ourselves at the feet of a man who didn’t deserve us all of a sudden – when you do the Tools and start to love yourself more intensely than you’ve loved any man – starts to fade.

    And what appears in your mind, heart, body and spirit is a Siren, a Diva, a woman who knows her worth and KNOWS that a good man will make her feel GOOD, not BAD. and instead of feeling pain and grief – you’ll feel disinterest. It’s sort of – you won’t want to be bothered.”

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:29pm

  41. 41: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:

    @ 22
    Wow Lone Plum!
    I loved reading about how you discovered “The Little Prince” I have only really started noticing it in the last year or so, but grew up with the book in the family library. I was an avid reader, but for some reason I didn’t ever read it. Perhaps I was too young and most of it would have gone straight over my head.

    I stumbled upon the fox story online one day and since then the ‘tame me’ quote has been a kind of mantra for me. It is why I fully embrace Rori’s ideas about circular dating. I am looking for a man to step up and tame me, in all the ways you said, with “freedom, trust, respect, and patience”.

    I actually quoted this bit: “To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world” to a guy once to explain why I didn’t want to be anyone’s “girlfriend” He got it completely.

    I’ve read a few other extracts on line, but I’m intrigued to read the whole story now, especially after reading your take on it, thank you. I’m visiting my parents this afternoon, so I’m going to have a hunt through the bookcase..it should still be there, waiting for the day I was ready to understand it.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:47pm

  42. 42: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Hi, Kaitlyn. Good to see you again. I feel your ick here. I have some friends and family who have said similar things to me:

    – You think/talk about dating/men too much.
    – You date too much.
    – You should focus on your kids, job, ____.
    – It’ll happen when you stop looking.
    – You have to heal first. It takes 1/2/___ years before you’re ready for love again.

    Coincidentally, most of these folks are married or on relationships, so: (.) That’s a grain of salt :)

    I dunno, maybe you can examine it, or maybe you can just accept and embrace that you want a relationship and that you’re willing to put your effort and energies into it.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:55pm

  43. 43: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    RiverGirl…what a nice thought: waiting for you to be ready for it.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 3:56pm

  44. 44: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    42: “It’ll happen when you stop looking.”

    Ugh! I hate that one!! And you’re right, it’s usually people who already have someone.

    I know they care about me and just want me to be happy, but UGH! :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:01pm

  45. 45: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    39: kaitlyn

    They remind me of Harold and Maude :)



    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:07pm

  46. 46: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    oh im feeling all rollercoastery

    i felt all good cuz the guy i liked came back after me on pof and wrote me romantic messages….

    and then i brought up the issue that felt bad to me and i still feel intense and upset hearing about it

    so i told him


    and im feeling all intense and upset now whereeas i was feeling great earlier

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:08pm

  47. 47: CarolNo Gravatar says:

    So, what do you do when a man gets mad at you, yells at you and then walks away and completely disappears. What do you do when you try and get in touch with him and he completely ignores you? What do you do when he sees you months later and acts like nothing happens and wants to talk to you? What do you do when he disappears again and then comes back and then disappears again and comes back. How do you remain civil and keep smiling and remain warm and open. You have already cut of contact with this man and he has cut off contact with you, but because you run into him at work from time to time and he has acted as if nothing has happened, what do you do? How do you move on with your life, when you feel now that your self-esteem is in the gutter? And when you know that you will still see him work-wise every few months or so?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:14pm

  48. 48: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    just cried a lil when i got my fruit smoothie

    am feeling much better

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:27pm

  49. 49: MeemeeNo Gravatar says:

    I loved reading your post on The Little Prince :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:41pm

  50. 50: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    I love this woman!

    That’s one link I’m gonna add to my favourites in my browser :)


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:43pm

  51. 51: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    49 Meemee

    Hey! Meemee! How are you feeling today?


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:45pm

  52. 52: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    I am trying to understand….why do we as women stay in relationships far longer then we should. Looking at Paula’s message and her visiting her bf, it reminded me of my last relationship, long distance, and how one time, just ONE TIME ONLY, I was able to go out and visit him in a period of 2 years we were dating. He came here obviously most of the time. Okay….so I told him I booked the airline ticket. “Oh, no!” He said, can you just go and see your sister instead??!” My ex wifes stuff is still in boxes in the kitchen and she has to come and get the rest of the stuff. And, “Oh yea, my mower broke down and I maybe won’t have the grass cut in time!!” Give me a done gone break buddy!! He was acting like we were in a relationship before I said I was coming to visit. How stupid of me. Well I went to see him ANYWAY. HA!! So I was down there and he treated me okay and finally said he was glad to see me. But 6 mo.s later when I wanted to come down again….guess what…..? He said, “Oh what’s the use! Why are we beating our heads against a brick wall?” This relationship is just too hard to maintain. BUT…if I didn’t talk of going down to see him, he’d call me just about everyday. And come up and see me every 3 mo.s The part I couldn’t figure was why did he call me before bedtime if he was seeing someone else?! Who in the hell knows? I was ridiculous for hanging around as long as I did….that is all I know!!

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:46pm

  53. 53: MeemeeNo Gravatar says:

    Carol says “What do you do when he sees you months later and acts like nothing happens and wants to talk to you?”
    I wonder whether this is a typical male reaction.
    Every single friend of mine told me something of this sort. I have had similar experience from people. But i had experiences like this from women too. People whom I am very close to behaving in an insensitive way and in bad ways, and then after days or weeks, behaving like nothing happened.
    I dont know when I say “male” i mean biological male. But i feel tempted to associate certain behaviors as “male”.
    Hmmmm. feeling confused.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:48pm

  54. 54: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    “i feel turned off by this good-luck thing, i don’t want to have a man ‘walk’ away from me when stuff gets intense… and i respect whatever you decide anyway

    i wonder what this is about for me that i brought this whole issue to my attention? i know i felt like crying and i felt helpless and rageful thinking about it

    thank you for showing up for me, giving me your attention and making me feel good – i don’t want to judge you at all and i feel misunderstood to read that about conclusions… i don’t have any conclusions here –

    it seems you feel really strongly about this issue… what is really going on? i want to hear what you think and feel… and sometimes it feels overwhelming and i feel like i cant handle it

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:52pm

  55. 55: MeemeeNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling good today.
    Its 5 am here in India.
    Not getting any sleep.
    So sitting and finishing a freelance project work.
    I think of you every day :) :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:52pm

  56. 56: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @18: FlowerChild77 says:
    “…I become judgemental (too fat, too old,…”

    So, does your username mean you are 77 years old… or not yet… or past…?

    Or you can keep it a secret. 😆


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:52pm

  57. 57: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    except im not gonna write to him because he’s already like “good-luck and i really like you” and that’s the third time i’ve heard that from him and am feeling turned off

    so i will respect his decision and let him walk away…

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:57pm

  58. 58: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @25: Daria says:
    “…lol what do you guys think of signing up on richmen.com it’s free for women..”

    Hi Daria, sure I’d join up! If you still don’t believe in money… does this mean the guys are “rich” as in “extra buttery” as Brenda puts it… tee hee 😆

    I’m happy you are getting lots of new guys!!!


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:58pm

  59. 59: MeemeeNo Gravatar says:

    “I am trying to understand….why do we as women stay in relationships far longer then we should.”

    Wow. I asked this question at least a million times to myself. I got different answers from myself at different points in the last one year.
    But this moment if I ask myself this question, I feel my answer would be ” It was needed that I go through certain amount of humiliation/pain/(whatever) before I decided to step into self esteem”.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 4:59pm

  60. 60: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Rori e-letter:

    “Leslie, Here’s my advice: Being with men is like riding a bicycle or a horse.

    When you fall down, you have to get right up and get back on and ride, otherwise you’ll develop fear.

    I’ve seen women hibernate for years and years because they didn’t get up on that dating bicycle again. (I did it myself for 2 years, and when I went back to dating, I was just as stupid as I was when I was dumped 2 years back – I’d made significant strides in my personal self, but with men I hadn’t learned a thing.)”

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:08pm

  61. 61: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    “Leslie, Here’s my advice: Being with men is like riding a bicycle”

    Only without the seat.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:10pm

  62. 62: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @39: kaitlyn says:
    “…Sirenspiration for the day. You Don’t Have To Be Perfect.”

    Thanks for the link. Fabulous blog. I’ll have fun with it.


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:12pm

  63. 63: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    62 SLV I love fashion blogs that are quirky. Check out brianboy .com also

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:14pm

  64. 64: Island GirlNo Gravatar says:

    @61 Kaitlyn – Lol! 😉

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:17pm

  65. 65: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    I am home. Meeting with OlderDude was one hour exactly.


    I am correct to follow my preferences surrounding older dudes for me but hey, I did it and now I know.

    I feel proud that I followed through, even though I wanted to cancel. And again, Now I know.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:23pm

  66. 66: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    I leaned forward and emailed Adam this morning. Because I hadn’t heard from him in a week since he called me.

    I just wrote ‘and…i miss you, too.’ In reference to on the phone call, he said he missed me and I said I miss him, too.

    But now he’s written back ‘tell me more.’

    When he uses that phrase, as he has before when we were dating, it’s an indication of interest. What do I say back?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:23pm

  67. 67: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @63: kaitlyn
    “Check out brianboy .com ..”

    OK. Thanks, I’ll check it out. I’m not the glamour type at the moment. I might have to change a bit. I am a big “Project Runway” fan though.


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:25pm

  68. 68: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Carol I have seen Rori suggest standing up to that man. If he keeps coming in your face maybe tell him how you feel and ask him please to respect your feelings but you are done. I have used “I have moved on with my life and I think you should do the same”. Look through Rori’s Self Esteem category, you will find a lot of information there.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:27pm

  69. 69: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @66: kaitlyn says:
    “…What do I say back?..”

    More… Update news. etc See if he “offers” something?


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:30pm

  70. 70: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    For pete’s sake, he asked me if I was born premature. What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    Apparently, I have peach fuzz on my neck.

    Where is the damn razor?


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:30pm

  71. 71: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 66 kaitlyn I have seen another relationship coach suggest using that phrase to get men to open up and connect on an emotional level.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:30pm

  72. 72: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @70: Lilybelle says:
    “…For pete’s sake, he asked me if I was born premature. What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?…”

    ROFL 😆 [those are friendly chuckles…]


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:31pm

  73. 73: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lilybelle is that one of the little “flaws” you think a man would not love about you? Remember you never know.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:32pm

  74. 74: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 33 Flowerchild to be honest I believe it was when Rori put up that tapping post that I stopped eating and pushing down my feelings. I amaze myself these days when I check on what I have eaten. 90% of days it is healthy. Regarding tapping I do it in the shower in the mornings without even thinking and while driving. Sometimes my mind just drift into it especially when I am feeling sad. Doing the meridians really bring up intense feelings though and I can feel it moving around my body. Check out susanquinn.com

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:41pm

  75. 75: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    I’m following SLV’s lead here. LOL!! :-) What’s a girl gonna do except chuckle. And, take the opportunity to fine tune my wants. Preemie, indeed. HAHAHA

    I did not find one thing attractive about OlderDude except that he smelled good. I’m sure he is a nice guy, but I felt a bit condescended a couple of times and when he would ask me a question, I would start to answer and then when I would pause, he would answer the same question about himself. I bet that happened half a dozen times.

    He spoke of all his ex girlfriends, the non-relationship with his ex wife, his love of cars and when he asked me what I enjoyed doing, I gave one answer, paused..and he took off again on the “smoked mirror” in sports and that wrestling is the only sport that is real…. ???? Um, okay OlderDude. 😉

    I found out that one ex gf was a ldr and she always drove to him, his son lived in his car for a couple months because he wouldn’t help him out….

    Whew, that was a lot in an hour.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:42pm

  76. 76: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 32 Thanks Loneplum, you are a gem.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:46pm

  77. 77: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    SLV#56 I’m laughing… :-) No, I’m not 77 yet. I graduated high school in 1977–I’m 51. But I will say that I fully intend to be a Siren when I am 77 (and past!) My friend and I always joke about how we wanna be having sex until we die or at least until we’re very, very old! Silly, as niether of us are having any sex right now! 😉

    I have no qualms about telling my age. For me, everything has gotten better as I age and I like it(since my forties, really, I started noticing that.)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:48pm

  78. 78: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 75 Sounds like draining your energy and maybe he needed someone to finally listen to him. That can leave one feeling like a talking post. Sorry sis

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:49pm

  79. 79: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Can I say? ‘it felt good when you called me the other day. i got pretty emotional in a good way when you said you missed me. I feel shy right now, but I will open up the more we get to know each other again. I’d like that. I always feel taken care of when you write and call me. I haven’t melted like that in a long time.’

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:50pm

  80. 80: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    It’s all good, FW.



    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:53pm

  81. 81: DENo Gravatar says:

    LonePlum #22:

    I loved the post …I feel enticed to read it the story as well …thank you…

    Warm hugs,

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:54pm

  82. 82: DENo Gravatar says:


    Also thank you for posting Dr. Pat Allen’s insights on dating…I had quite a few Aha moments reading them :)

    Warm hugs,

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:55pm

  83. 83: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi SLV!
    Still cheeky I see :)

    Kaitlyn , “Tell me more” ….he wants you to lean forward..he is inviting you to put it out there ..what you want , how you feel , etc. Maybe he just wants to know if you are still interested in him.

    If you respond you need to be able to do it knowing he may not reply at all , or in a positive way. That is you need to be able to live with the discomfort of having leaned forward and getting no result . If this is ok then contact him.

    I feel uncomfortable about that as I expect he would write more if he wanted to write more .

    If you think encouragement is needed (and I think you have been encouraging already) ..you could try something like ..

    ” It feels good to have some contact again. But I also feel uncertain and a little confused about what contact you would like? . I feel comfortable with emails and happy to have you call .”

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:56pm

  84. 84: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Thank you FW…I did check out the Susan Quinn site. If that’s what’s working for you maybe I should stick with that. There are SO many things for tapping and meditation on youtube, it’s hard to know which ones to choose.

    I do eat quite healthy, but I have a wicked sweet-tooth. I’m working on it…

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:57pm

  85. 85: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    70: Lilybelle

    *** For pete’s sake, he asked me if I was born premature. What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? ***
    You looked too young for him ?

    *** Apparently, I have peach fuzz on my neck.
    Where is the damn razor?***
    Don’t cut your wrists for a peach, please. 


    I would answer something like : “Yep! And yet I was too late to catch your century. It had already died.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 5:58pm

  86. 86: DENo Gravatar says:


    Oh, sad to hear about u feeling a bit disappointed :( I have mine next…

    This morning and throughout the day, I had txts from 3 different guys…not bad considering i went online last nite…

    I had an interesting exchange with J (the guy I am suppose to meet in an hour) over txt messaging this morning that I actually feel good about…

    At some point, he sent me his pic over the phone without me asking…
    I responded..”Wow, handsome :)”
    He followed “Can u send me one of u?”

    I immediately noticed feeling resistant and kind of shutting off…so, I sank into my feelings…i felt uncomfortable…
    So, I decided to express “Hmm…at this moment, I feel resistant to sharing…a bit uncomfortable…:( my match pics are pretty recent…”
    He responded “I understand. No worries”
    I responded “thank you…wow…i feel accepted and therefore safe to send u one now…:)”
    He said “very pretty” and then one more saying “thank u “…

    So, tonite, I will practice on moi again, and again….i kind of feel anxiety in my tummy…feels like butterflies…weird…

    Warm hugs,

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:06pm

  87. 87: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:


    What do you feel about my #79? No, thats not the beef and broccoli. lolz

    What about tweaking Rosa’s idea with:

    ” It feels good to have some contact again. But I also feel uncertain and a little confused about what contact you would like? I absolutely am taking you up on your offer to hang out, but until you’re back in LA, I feel totally open to emails and happy to have you call.”

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:07pm

  88. 88: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I am thinking about angry men.

    My ex husband (now ex for 9 years) was a very passive aggressive angry man. He never yelled, he never said anything , he just left the room. He had big blue eyes , and they would get all starey and hard and aggressive and he would just ignore me and go to his home office . It became his habit . I never saw him and he would sleep in the guest room , for years.

    I now know I was very bad at verbalising my needs and had many faults as far as communication went but I found this kind of anger very dark and difficult to deal with.

    I now have a CD who is “irritable” when things dont go smoothly ..he gets all het up if the service is a little slow in a restaurant , especially if they dont pick up his card and do the check when he is ready to leave. I have noticed this now on 2or 3 occasions. He looked irritated because the bathrooms werent where I thought they were at the gallery. He has never been directly irritable with me but I am sure that he is very capable of it. It means he has red flags attached. He is in fact a perfect gentleman in every other way.

    I feel uncomfortable and awkward . I have not expressed that yet. If it happens again , now I recognise the pattern, I need to give a FM. The behaviours are so SUBTLE , an irritated glance, impatient waving at the waiter etc..

    I struggle to see how to give the FM without being accusatory . Do i need to wait for a bigger example?
    Maybe he was just having a bad day?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:11pm

  89. 89: DENo Gravatar says:


    Wow, A’s request “Tell me more”…reminds me of my ex “J”…he used to say the same when he was horny…:(

    I would definitely out-girl him…by staying focus on u…
    “wow…i feel happy to hear back from u…” “i feel a bit lonely…i miss being hugged and loved…”…

    i would stay away from using the word “u” in the sentence…

    Btw…I think u are doing great :)

    Warm hugs,

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:11pm

  90. 90: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Really, all Sirens are welcome. I heart advice!!!! Of course, TINQUE is welcome. : )

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:11pm

  91. 91: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Oh. my. Goodness, LP~

    His favorite fruit is a peach. LOL!!!

    I was thinking about shaving my neck. 😉 NOT really.


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:12pm

  92. 92: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 79 kaitlyn if I was going to write anything it would be how I feel doing my work, the excitement of the project, how exhilirated I felt when I was working out. In other words how I feel about my busy and exciting life since we last connected. What you wrote there suggests you missed him desperately. I might be wrong but I would be careful I don’t come across as needy. I might end with I always feel taken care of when you ask me about my life.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:13pm

  93. 93: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I like that Kaitlyn, does it feel authentic for you?
    And if he says “yeah…call me any time you like “, will you still ok that he doesnt step up?

    If yes and yes then send it.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:14pm

  94. 94: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    DE~ I will be waiting on the edge of my seat to hear about tonights meeting.

    I love that he understood your discomfort surrounding picture sending via phone. I feel the same knot in my stomach when that happens..I feel happy that he accepted and understood your feelings and found a way to have you feeling more comfortable. I’ll bet he has butterflies in his tummy too! 😉

    Thinking of you and sending you lots of energy and love~

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:17pm

  95. 95: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    93 no, i won’t be. that’s why doing this is a delicate thing.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:17pm

  96. 96: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa I said to one recently I sense you are impatient, are you? He said after a pause, I have been told that.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:18pm

  97. 97: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Actually I have had a rethink Kaitlyn about the bigger picture. I want to change my suggestion.

    I agree with DE and FW about focusing on you .

    I actually didint consider the history , that he had ended things and done the walkaway . I think in this settling that it really is essential not to lean forward in any way .

    I believe that he knows you are open already . And I like that you out girl him if possible .

    I think no email for another few days is the best option. He knows where you are and he knows you are open.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:20pm

  98. 98: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:


    I, personally wouldn’t send that message. You’ve been sooooo good at leaning back and letting him come to you, an he is responding. The energy of your message above feels a little controlling, directive to me. Maybe impatient.

    Maybe it could be softened a bit?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:21pm

  99. 99: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    LG hope you are progressing well on your project. You have been quiet lately. Miss your positive vibes.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:24pm

  100. 100: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I like that FW

    “I sense you are impatient, are you?”

    I want to say , I feel awkward and embarrassed, cant you see how busy they are ? I dont like feeling rushed or pressured. I want to feel relaxed out for dinner with you ..

    Actually its more than that, its my internal alarm going off ..

    I feel my cringe factor going off!
    This means I am fearful that you are an angry 53 year old bachelor who is never happy with peoples imperfections!!!!!

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:25pm

  101. 101: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 100 Rosa I understand but for me, that feels like tongue lashing a brat. I would just decline his offer for another date after maybe two dates. If he insists on asking why I would just say I don’t feel we are a match, it’s just a gut feeling. No explanations.

    All you said might be true but I would gamble he already knows. I also believe he might be unhappy with himself.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:30pm

  102. 102: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    LP’s post@30

    “It is my experience that men want to solve problems so that they feel very, very self-reliant.
    They want to feel in charge, in control, responsible, when they do the performance pursuing.

    When Joe is pursued he does not go through the process of problem solving.
    Therefore, he is actually at the mercy of Alice, which in effect undermines his masculinity and promotes his negativity.”

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:31pm

  103. 103: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    55: Meemee

    ***I think of you every day ***
    No wonder you can’t sleep !

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:33pm

  104. 104: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 102 That was an excerpt from relationship coach Pat Allen’s book.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:34pm

  105. 105: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    Memee needs an exorcist

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:34pm

  106. 106: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Yes FW , I think the message is that a FM is difficult here because the problem is being picked up on my internal radar , not an overt incident to respond to.

    I think declining dates is a definite option , but as he travels a lot , has not stepped up to relationship mode, is not sexual with me currently , well for all of those reasons i may continue to see him as a friend only.The dates are great fun and it allows me to get all the CD experience and benefits.

    I am more interested in another CD currently , Doctor guy , he is patient, calm and lots of other good things. He is still not divorced though so must remain a CD only at this stage .

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:37pm

  107. 107: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Y’all are right about needing to out-girl him since his ‘tell me more’ beckons a lean forward on my part…ew.

    thus, i’m combining this with fw’s ‘focus on me.’ how about:

    ‘more magazine accounts means i’ve been prolific and feel accomplished again, and i bought my dream Leica for my birthday and am shooting more personal stuff just for me. plenty has happened the past months…learning video has me dreaming in 24p, working out still has me feeling radiant, i still read like a fiend, and practice bass.

    I always feel taken care of when you ask about me. And, yes, I melted when you called.



    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:39pm

  108. 108: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I am lying on a hospital bed right now having my monthly treatment . It is sunny and feels hot on my legs through the window . I feel quite relaxed and happy , which feels GOOD , chatting to Sirens ..

    (every month I am here for 12 years now and it usually feels bad , reminds me of my health issues).

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:40pm

  109. 109: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:


    I hope all gets better for you and your mom. I’m glad it feels warm over there for you two.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:43pm

  110. 110: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I got rearended by a man this afternoon. He got out of the car and yelled into the air once. Then he took charge told me to pull over to the side and exchange info. He was masculine taking charge. He gave me his info and then said he had his son to pick up so didn’t want to wait for the cops. I checked my body and there were no alarms, I was calm from the moment it happened. I expressed to him my reservations around not getting a police report and past experience where people were dishonest. He said things to get me feeling comfortable and said he would never do that to anyone. He seemed so authentic and apologetic. He was driving a mustang, 1 of 170. I second guessed myself, his honesty but deep down I felt I could trust him. I wasn’t hurt it is only the bumper that go damaged so I decided to trust my instincts. I took his information including his phone number and driver’s license number. I stood there and told him I wanted to check his number to ensure it was correct. He put the phone down on the car so I could see it ringing. Some might say I was stupid but for some reason I felt like it happened for a reason. I checked myself to see if I felt I could trust him. I paid attention to how much he was trying to help me feel safe and taken care of. He came up close to me right into my space and I did not draw back. I noticed I am in a calmer place on the inside of me and that I was not angry. I believe it was another message from the Universe to show me that I am shifting internally.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:45pm

  111. 111: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    FW: Awwww, thanks sister!

    My project is coming along. I finished a big chunk yesterday and am resting a bit today. Then I will get back at it until my deadline Monday.

    I’m having to rush due to my own procrastination. I actually feel relieved that the deadline is coming up because I am reading to wrap this up. I’m noticing that I seem to need outside pressure to get motivated. What’s that about? Learning and growing every day.

    Mostly though, I feel positive. I’ve been approaching this work with my LOA awareness and things are flowing so much smoothly than before. I feel really good about that. I feel hopeful and inspired.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:45pm

  112. 112: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Carol @47

    Just read this series of questions about the reappearing man.

    Carol if he is not stepping up and making you feel GOOD instead of BAD , then you sack him.

    Otherwise you CD and use him only for practice.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:45pm

  113. 113: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 108 Rosa it is great also that it reminds you that you are living. Enjoy the bits of the ride that you can.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:46pm

  114. 114: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    110 FW, for some reason i got turned on during that story.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:47pm

  115. 115: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 111 LG I believe negative motivation. I do that too, procrastinate. Seems I believe I need the pressure to get my creative juices flowing.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:48pm

  116. 116: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Ohh, Kaitlyn, I like that reply! How Siren-y are You???

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:49pm

  117. 117: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I know why kaitlyn it was deliberate. See how sensitive we are when we really pay attention?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:50pm

  118. 118: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Kaitlyn: I don’t see his “tell me more” as beckoning you to lean forward. I see it as an invitation to really be authentic and share your deep inner self, that magical feminine allure that men are magnetically drawn to.

    Deep down what do you really want to say to him?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:52pm

  119. 119: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    It is really OK FW . Its one day a month and it keeps me healthy . Nothing to do with the breast cancer. I still work 34 weeks , and do everything I want pretty much . I just feel a bit sorry for myself lying in hospital with an infusion running evry month.

    I have a secret deal with myself that one day my man will be around to take me to hospital and pick me up , and make me feel special and cared for. My ex-husband, never ONCE did that for me, never once became involved in the process in any way and never once did any thing like take care of dinner that night after my IVs . This is a big hurt I am healing slowly, that he was so neglectful.

    I will do some tapping on this one.
    I did one on menopause today already.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:53pm

  120. 120: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I loved that you were taken care of FW, by Mr Rearender
    Its a lovely story, made me feel all gooey.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:54pm

  121. 121: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    116 Boomer, after i proof read it, i felt a perk of siren. i feel glad that a writer as visceral as you liked it.

    and sometimes his ‘tell me more’ when we dated was a sexual thing. so, just in case, the ‘i melted’ was meant to feel sensual. not sexual. i dont feel safe with that yet. but i want to.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:55pm

  122. 122: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah I considered him a surprise CD.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 6:57pm

  123. 123: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    FW: Mmmmm I felt so yummy reading your story.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:05pm

  124. 124: BoomerNo Gravatar says:


    “I feel uncomfortable and awkward . I have not expressed that yet. If it happens again , now I recognise the pattern, I need to give a FM. The behaviours are so SUBTLE , an irritated glance, impatient waving at the waiter etc.”

    Oh, boy, do I know THIS feeling from my ex-husband. He was always negative and complaining and finding conspiracies in everything. In retrospect, I often felt uncomfortable, drained, and worried about it rubbing off on me. And it did for a time.

    This is so exhausting, I know, especially when he’s not particularly “wrong.” It was just…WHY so negative all the time??

    I don’t know how to address it in FMs without accusing. I look back at my own marriage to a negative man, and I still don;t know what I could have done differently. But it became clear shortly after we were married that I was dealing with some fairly serious mental illness and not just negativity. You are so right to see it as a red flag. Not saying that he is mentally ill, but do trust your intuition here.

    Does anyone else know how to frame non-accusatory FMs for really uncomfortable situations where what the guy is doing is actually causing your discomfort?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:09pm

  125. 125: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Lillybelle, oh no on OlderGuy!!!! I’m sorry. But yes, you met your judgments where they live and you were open to something new. Good for you. As my mama used to say, “You can’t marry everyone,” so chalk it up to “now I know.”

    Bummer. It’s always nice to be pleasantly surprised, isn’t it?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:12pm

  126. 126: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FW, thank goodness you were not hurt or that there was not more damage. I so admire your quiet maturity.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:20pm

  127. 127: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    I’m visceral!? Huh, I find I feel just fine with that :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:25pm

  128. 128: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    FW: Well, the part about you getting rear ended was concerning but overall the story felt good somehow.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:38pm

  129. 129: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Doctor man just emailed, wants to cook me barbecue Sun night and wanting to book ahead for the following weekend and asked what I would like . This feels GOOD.
    I emailed 3 things I would like to do, zoo, cliff top walk, ferry rides , and said he can choose anything or just surprise me . This feels about right to me as far as leaning back but sharing input.

    I dont want to discourage a man from asking my opinion but I do want him to plan the dates.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:48pm

  130. 130: patNo Gravatar says:

    sounds manipulative

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 7:58pm

  131. 131: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:


    What sounds manipulative? Rosa? Or her date? Confused.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:01pm

  132. 132: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I am interested that it reads that way Pat.
    I feel good about it however:)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:04pm

  133. 133: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Do other Sirens believe that expressing a preference when a man asks is manipulative if you then give it back to him to organise?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:06pm

  134. 134: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Kaitlyn, I don’t know if it’s too late – I haven’t read all the way down – but I LOVE #79! I think it is perfect. My eyes just flew open when I read it – it felt so vulnerable, authentic, inviting, and attractive. <3

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:06pm

  135. 135: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    # 107 seems masculine to me :( … and “trying too hard” and inauthentic. Sorry if I am wrong.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:15pm

  136. 136: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Not sure what’s better…my #79 or my #107?

    Or a combo of thereof? hmmmn. I haven’t sent anything yet.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:16pm

  137. 137: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    135 Lucy,

    My guy friend said that, too.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:17pm

  138. 138: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Another hint into A’s personality: he gets passive aggressive when he feels manipulated.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:23pm

  139. 139: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    And he’s very smart. He can totally detect inauthenticity. But I can’t seem too needy because no guy, especially in my sordid breakup situation, wants that.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:24pm

  140. 140: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Kaitlyn, to me, the difference btwn neediness and vulnerability is that neediness anxiously depends on the guy to “make it all better,” while vulnerability bravely depends on self-love to “make it better” if he can’t or won’t when we open our hearts. <3

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:36pm

  141. 141: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    When. I sit still i feel all the shame i feel.

    And hopelessnessof ever healing it

    Like abig lake

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:37pm

  142. 142: DENo Gravatar says:

    Wow…I feel like crying…It was a great 1st meeting…:)

    He told me I am a breath of fresh air…gosh, he gave me so many wow descriptions I was taken by surprised the whole time…

    At the end…he told me he would like to see me again…I answered “i would love that”…he said “i don’t want to pressure u, but let me know…” i thought for a minute and i answered “well, sat nite i have free if that works for u”…he answered “well, even if i had something going on…it’s all gone for u…what do u want to do? anything u want, the world is yours…” i answered..”wow…i would love to feel surprised…”
    he said “okay then, surprise should be!”

    Hmm…he just txt me that he enjoyed meeting me and can’t wait for Sat…:)

    wow…i have two more guys to talk to tonite :)

    I feel happy :) Gosh, but my NVs are kicking in…:( “don’t get too excited…happy endings are not for u…”….oh, no…now i am crying…i still have healing to do…

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:41pm

  143. 143: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    22. Loneplum

    “the little prince”

    “It is a magical book.”

    yes it surely is! thank you for sharing your experiences around it! I feel so delighted! I have two copies in my house, an original paperback and a picture book. i want to read it again. i’m sure it will have new meaning for me, too!

    I once saw a live performance of it with my children. It was magical, too.

    It’s funny, i signed up on one of the dating sites about a year or so ago, but did not make a profile or put any photos. My name, however, was “Invisible to the eye”, based on the famous quote from the book , “It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.”
    one of my favorite quotes ever…..

    …..somehow that makes me think of that line from a bob dylan song that I recently heard …”you’re invisible now, you’ve got no secrets to conceal…..”

    Your explanations of the differences of
    “tame”: “apprivoiser” “dompter” “briser”
    are quite illuminating, too!

    “Probably another wounded man yet…”

    Yes. He is. He cannot do “apprivoiser”. Maybe he could read “The Little Prince” and learn something.

    ahhhh….i love synchronicities



    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:41pm

  144. 144: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    ahhhh sirens…. I am struggling this week.

    My wonderful long-distance CD has come to visit for a week and returned home, and now he’s coming back in a couple months for an even longer stay.

    He’s kind. He’s generous. He’s doting. He’s consistent.

    He tells me I’m beautiful at least once a day. And yet…

    Why is there a yet? Always a yet?

    Reading Rosa’s #88 hit home. And Boomer, your last question in #124… well, I was hitting F5 so fast looking for a response from anyone because I’m wondering too.

    He and I talked on the phone tonight. I talked about how I feel distrustful in situations where intimidation is the method used to impose a person’s will on others.

    I didn’t even connect that he would internalize my comments, because I was authentically speaking about myself. But he did.

    He responded that he has done that in the past, but he doesn’t anymore…because he does it at work and gets it out of his system. He said he never wants to be like that with me. He wants me to trust him, so he’s making sure to be completely honest with me.

    This lead us into an even deeper discussion about being open and vulnerable…. which was good, but couldn’t take my mind off how I’ve seen him get agitated…easily, fast and over nothing. Like a cloudburst and then the sun comes back out.

    and now I’m feeling overwhelmed. I can’t take on another project man. Wondering if it’s red flags….or my own fears?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 8:57pm

  145. 145: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:


    “Does anyone else know how to frame non-accusatory FMs for really uncomfortable situations where what the guy is doing is actually causing your discomfort?”

    Boomer, I am working with and getting a lot out of a framework where you can address something someone said or did as causing your feeling, but still take responsibility for it. ” I feel_____when you______because I_____”

    so, for instance, i’m just playing with this, throwing it out there, practicing….

    “I felt very uncomfortable when you said that to the server, because my need to see others being treated respectfully was not being met. I was a server once, and it’s not an easy job (or, I can’t imagine that is an easy job having to keep so many people happy at the same time). I would much rather see customers try to make her job easier rather than more difficult. That might even help us to get even better service! What do you think?”


    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 9:22pm

  146. 146: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    oh and minor detail…. in our convo tonight, he casually slipped this in, “I’m in for the long haul.”

    I know I’m still deciding on how I feel about him, but he has made it crystal clear how he feels about me.

    I feel conflicted. I read things that say “If a man is X, Y or Z… Run!”

    I give people the benefit of the doubt. I trust. I believe. I adore these qualities in myself. I want to protect them. I cherish my naivete.

    And yet…. those who love me say that these qualities mean I don’t see the truth in people…and I don’t know when I should walk away.

    When a man is kind to his family, but rude to strangers… or tactless… or [insert behavior here]… Should it be a dealbreaker?

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 9:26pm

  147. 147: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    A stepped up and called!

    I didn’t have to write anything! First, I started off with being warm and appreciative that he called. “Aww, A, you’re taking a break at work and callig me? That feels really nice. I like that.” Then we shot the sh1t about superficial fluff. We opened up a lot to each other. It felt uncomfortable at first. So, I said f__ it, just tell this guy what you feel. After he breaks the silence, of course. Lean back, Kaitlyn.

    I said, “I feel so relaxed we’re talking like this, but I feel a bit nervous because I’m afraid of being too much, like scaring you off.”

    I felt his vibe shift to more soothed, though it took him a while of silence. He said quietly, “I’m fine with it. Just relax.”

    Sucks he still doesn’t know if he’s staying here or not when he comes. I didn’t express any feelings about it. I just listened. I want to feel open instead of expressing resistance even though it bothers me that he might not end up living here, and his “I don’t know how often you make it to the East Coast…” didn’t feel good to me. But it seems, he’s a guy, and he’s not planning us that far ahead; i mean, we have to go on the date first when he gets here.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 10:32pm

  148. 148: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa – just perfect. Your instincts are great. Love, Rori

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 10:39pm

  149. 149: Island GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Kaitlyn… <3 Yay! I'm so happy he called and things went so well. I'm really impressed by
    "I said, “I feel so relaxed we’re talking like this, but I feel a bit nervous because I’m afraid of being too much, like scaring you off.”"

    Just try and remember that if those little nv's start in — they're just voices… :-) You were great!

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 10:55pm

  150. 150: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    149 My nv’s started happening a bit whilst talking to him. when he said ‘relax’ he seemed a bit tensed up from feeling my vibe of nv’s.

    when he said he’s gonna have to live in a motel here because he has no place to stay, i ALMOST offered to have him stay here. that way he could afford to stay in town much longer. i offered that before paris and he accepted.

    BUT I DIDNT SAY A WORD. the old me would’ve offered. i am so proud of myself. besides, poor guy is probably all tuckered out from estrogen overload from that convo, though i tried rousing his masc energy with fw’s and leaning back. and not giving advice.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 11:37pm

  151. 151: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Aw Kaitlyn, I am so proud of you too! So happy things are going better for you. <3

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 11:42pm

  152. 152: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    I feel giddy – I have a new cute Australian cyber-man… I can hear his hot accent in my head when I read his msgs. Hehe. :)

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 11:44pm

  153. 153: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    lucy, thanks for your advice.

    Thursday, 2 June 2011 @ 11:58pm

  154. 154: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    im sorry for judging you

    i cant deal with words that are abusive it feels terrible to me :(

    i don’t want to lose you

    what can we do?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:27am

  155. 155: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    A few times on phone, I got over eager and could tell he was sensing it and he was getting yuck about it. So, I’d do damage repair by saying nothing and letting him fill in the long pauses.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:06am

  156. 156: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    kaitlyn let him lead. It will be alright.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:12am

  157. 157: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    I think you have every reason to feel excited about last nights meeting with NewDude#1. So exciting.


    You know what to do with those NV’s…they are lying to you and will do so at every turn.

    Such good stuff and it sounds like a wonderful evening.

    I love a man who shows me that I have the WOW factor, even if I know it..I do like him to show it too. :-)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:47am

  158. 158: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Lucy, haven’t you been desiring an Australian man???? He sounds delicious. I do love an accent, too.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:49am

  159. 159: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    So excited to read about your phone call, Kaitlyn.

    I think you did beautifully.

    Have a wonderful Friday!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:54am

  160. 160: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Rosa, I love the idea of giving options and then letting him decide the final answer. You still get to be surprised and you know it will be something that you enjoy.

    Seems like a win-win to me. He doesn’t have to guess. I bet he liked that.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:58am

  161. 161: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:



    I do feel proud knowing that I did something out of my comfort zone, hit it head on and can firmly say now I really DO know. :-)

    Learning every day feels good to me. I am still open to older men, just not quite that much older than I. There was a vast difference, visually between the two of us…and he did not look like his photograph at all.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:02am

  162. 162: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Rori, Its good to have a caring overlooker errmmm , looking over!

    Instincts …yes I feel it in my body . My instinct is to enjoy these dates with Mr Sometimes Irritable as a way of defining what I DO want.
    As long as i am not having sex it feels safe .

    I am feeling more attracted to Doctor guy . We have dated about 8 times now. I am hoping he will move to make it more physical soon. Even if we become physically intimate I am going to hold on to the CD

    I am so happy for you Kaitlyn! That was a reminder to me to be patient and stay leaned back and surprises may happen!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:07am

  163. 163: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Lilybelle I love how free you are now! You can date anyone and not fear how to handle the clangers :)

    What a Siren!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:12am

  164. 164: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Lucy , Gotta love it!

    That Aussie accent is unappealing to other Aussies.
    I just love a clipped British Hugh Grantish accent myself..

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:15am

  165. 165: MarieNo Gravatar says:

    I have a HUGE problem and am hoping someone can help me or lead me in a direction on what to do. I have a live in boyfriend. We have been together for 13 months. I also have a daughter who lives with me and him full time. He has a daughter the same age, they are both almost “teens”. My issue is I just found out that he has had MANY other lovers besides me. Many 3 month or 6 week relationships with women who he’s had sex with. I don’t know exact numbres but it’s a BIG number. I never knew this until a few days ago. Also, all of his friends that he keeps dear to him have some link or connection to many of his ex gf’s. I just found out that his cousin had set him up not once but 2 times with women that he’s been with for 6 weeks or more but had sex with both. This was his last relationship before me. One of the women his cousin set him up with is the cousin’s wife’s sister. So the cousin’s sister in law. That means if we ever go to a party at the cousin’s house the sister in law, my bf’s ex that he had sex with will be there. This upsets me and is breaking every boundary I have in this department. I want nothing to do with any ex’s. I don’t want to know, or meet them, or be in the same room. Problem is there are so many it turns out, and many are friends with his friends, family, etc, that I can’t even go to a football game to see his daughter cheerlead because there will be 2, 3 or even 4 ex’s there. I had no idea the man I’m living with and planned to marry got around even half this much. He never came across as being a serial dater or this experienced sexually and now I’m just devastated. I’ve been sobbing and crying for 2 days, had I known this fact about him and there are other lies he’s told me, he wouldn’t be living in my house. His daughter is with an ex gf he was with for only 1 year, never married. She has two other children from 2 different men, never married. So 3 kids in her house and a live in bf with one of the 3 children. It’s a little hard to handle. The daughter also tells MY daughter, my mom has 3 kids by 3 different men and never married any of them and SO WHAT. I have a problem with this also, but I understand this is his life not mine. I was married to my daughter’s father for 10 years. His parents also talk about the mother of his daughter to ME when I’m there, non-stop about what she’s doing on the weekends, how wonderful she is, on and on and on. My bf’s ex wife went to his parents years ago to ask them to stop talking about her and it ended in zero communication between him and his parents for 3 years. So me or my bf can’t ask them to please spare us his ex gf’s life details or they will stop all communication. It’s very hard to handle. i don’t know what to do and now what’s happened is I’ve been crying and sobbing for the past 2 days straight not knowing if I need to end this or seek help for myself in how to deal with this nightmare. A few of these problems at a time I can deal with but all together it’s way out of my comfort zone and makes me just feel like I have a stranger living in my house that I can’t respect and don’t even really like anymore. Please help.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:21am

  166. 166: RosaNo Gravatar says:


    “Problem is there are so many it turns out, and many are friends with his friends, family, etc, that I can’t even go to a football game to see his daughter cheerlead because there will be 2, 3 or even 4 ex’s there. ”

    Marie what you have is what you have NOW. You can either live in fear that you will become an ex – or you can live in joy that you have love and CAN go wherever you wish and be part of a team…as long as you are in a real and not imaginary relationship.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:32am

  167. 167: MarieNo Gravatar says:

    I forgot to add that I’m 35 years old and he’s 40, he was married once for 2.5 years and his ex wife cheated. He’s been divorced for about 6 years, I’ve been divorced for 5 years. He has no children with his ex wife. His sister who is my age still is friends with the ex wife also, so I get to hear all the wonderful details about her as well when I’m with his family. His mother tells me how wonderful she was with his daughter and how much the daughter misses her, why on earth do I need to know that? Do they want me to leave him or what? Don’t know if this helps or matters……

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:38am

  168. 168: MarieNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rosa, thank you for commenting. I’m so sad and just devastated over all of this I appreciate any help so much….I’m not living in fear of becoming an ex, I have a mental problem with SEEING women who came before me..I don’t want to know, i’d rather just keep it in the past and pretend there is only my bf and I, no ex’s…I have no interest in talking to any of them, there’s no reason!! Why would someone who loves me (says he does) and wants to marry me keep expecting me to be in this situation..I’ve talked to him right from the start that I’d rather keep my past and his there, in the PAST, but his past and present are entwined!!! It’s just hard for me to deal with. I would rather not put myself in a situation that will make me feel uncomfortable and what that means with the man I’m with is any party, any even for his daughter, and family get together has the potential for having ex’s literally shoved down my throat. It’s very hard for me. My family doesn’t act like this to my bf at all and I have ZERO attachments or links to ANY ex’s. Even the father of my daughter there is limited communication and my bf will never have to meet him or speak with him, it’s just not how our situation is handled. I’m just asking for the same in return. Who in the hell wants to speak with or talk to ex gf’s? I don’t! And I would never put my bf in this type of situation. I have no problem if i ever have to speak with or be involved with his daughter’s mother, I understand she is a permanent part of his life due to his child. And I care and love his daughter just as much as I do my own and consider her my own it’s the rest of these women. And finding out they are EVERYWHERE is too much for me to bear.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:45am

  169. 169: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Are you CDing Marie?
    Are you going out just for you , to a movie or a gallery , or a lecture , just for you?

    If you were looking after YOU , and focusing on you being HAPPY ..shining a laser light on your own feelings and enjoyment of life, what he DOES or did not do is NOT being the agenda here…this sort of self care will see you through.

    Go on a lunch date , seek out friends ..feel good about YOU.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:53am

  170. 170: MarieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rosa. No I’m not. I’ve been unemployed after my company went bankrupt in December and I’ve down ward spiraled ever since. I’m having major problems finding work, and pretty much I stay around the house due to serious lack of money…Plus I think I’m depressed due to I find it near impossible to motivate myself to go out and do things I used to love..I have a horse and horseback riding used to be my passion. I don’t think I’ve gone to the barn or ridden in 3 months…When I literally FORCE myself to go out and do something, I do feel better, but it’s fleeting…just a few hours of joy. I also have no health insurance and applied for the state health insurance but due to child support coming in it’s $300 over their limit, so I can’t even seek counseling which I’m pretty sure I desperately need…I’m in a tough spot!!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:06am

  171. 171: MelNo Gravatar says:

    I have a question.

    I feel myself having one foot out the door right now. I have been looking for jobs in my home city and checking into some logistical things like how to get some of my belongings sent across the country.

    I think I truly would like to stay married to my husband, but my brain is telling me: he’s not really committing to you right now. He’s not sure he wants to be married. Beyond agreeing to go to counseling ONCE, he has made no further commitment to the marriage.

    I feel like I need a back-up plan. I am a teacher, so if I wait for him to make up his mind, I could be out of work for next year (most of the hiring is done before the end of June). I just don’t want to put all of my eggs in the “we’ll work it out” basket.

    But I wonder if this will make it difficult to actually work on the marriage. I mean how can I commit myself to “us” if I am also understandably “me” focused right now? Is there a conflict here?

    Am I wrong to want a back-up plan?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:17am

  172. 172: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Mel , I always say “look where your feet are”

    If your feet are heading with determination in one direction, this is where your unconscious is leading you . If your mind is consciously somewhere else ..always check your feet.

    Your “feet” are checking out a cross country move..Love them for caring for you and trust that they know why they are doing this…even if its unconscious.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:26am

  173. 173: MarieNo Gravatar says:

    Mel, i remember Rori saying something along the lines of if he’s not 100% sure about you and the relationship you tell him, I will give you all the time you need to work out what you want with this relationship but I can’t stop my life and spend it waiting for you to decide. Then you get super super busy going out and doing things for yourself. I’m not exact on what Rori said, but she did it with her own husband when he was stalling to commit to marriage with her.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:27am

  174. 174: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    171: I agree with Rosa, Mel~ 100% Your “gut” is talking to you, loudly.

    You know what else this shows me?

    I don’t believe there is a conflict here, I believe you are doing the most important thing you can do here, taking care of you. Your back-up plan is showing me that you are determined to take care of you and this is proof of the “work” that you have been doing since you came to the Island.

    I applaud you!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:45am

  175. 175: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Should I apply to some jobs in my home town so as not to put myself out of the running?

    That way in case he bails, I’m not kicking myself later?

    If he wants to work things out, I don’t have to accept any positions (if they are offered).

    I just feel like he shouldn’t have the power to further mess up my life. I know this is different than dating a guy that won’t commit, but it feels the same. I mean, if he can’t give me any commitment besides “we’ll see” and “I don’t know.” Than I don’t see why I should be putting my life on hold for him.

    What do you think?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:46am

  176. 176: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    So Mel these “choices” all work around a default position of “if he Bails”.

    What would you like to do to look after you REGARDLESS of his choices?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:58am

  177. 177: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Awww, thank you, Rosa.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:02am

  178. 178: MelNo Gravatar says:

    The thing is, I don’t mind staying where I am if we’re going to work things out. I like this city and I have a job etc.

    But I definitely don’t want to stay if we separate. I would rather be close to friends and family that love me, than be here alone.

    But the fact remains that in order for ME to choose to stay and remain in the marriage, there has to be a willingness to change and WANT to be married on his part.

    There are also some deal breakers, that if he can’t agree to, I’m not willing to compromise on.

    So, what I want, regardless of him is to be happy I guess. I want to have a job that I like and spend quality time with the people I choose to have in my life.

    Not an easy question.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:07am

  179. 179: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 175 Mel I sense that is you are taking care of yourself and being aware of what is taking place in your life. As far as I am concerned I use interviews for developing my skills and for checking to see what I am perceived as competent to perform as well as how marketable I am. I am wondering Mel if you could see some value in that and in putting yourself out there as well as out in other surrounding towns where you live now. This will give you a sense of yourself as well as possibly lift your self esteem, is my humble opinion. This is about you.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:08am

  180. 180: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 165 Marie he sounds like a serial monogamist who might need to be in a relationship to feel good about himself.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:12am

  181. 181: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Also Marie a man who gets around like that might be aware of who he is and what he really wants in his life. He must have a lot of experience that taught him what he doesn’t want. How does he treat you and how do you feel when you are around him?

    It also feels like the relationship is being put in the balalnce based on the past. I believe if I completely eliminate people from my past I am creating a very small and lonely world for myself. Can my boundaries include a door that allow people in and out instead of a wall that totally shuts them out? I believe so and I work towards that. Allowing him to choose his friends could endear you to him. Dictating who he can interact with could create codependency. I recently saw a man walk away from a woman who seemed to attack all other female friends in his life. Within a year he was married to someone else.

    Regarding the family who keeps talking about them, I would ask that they respect my feelings. If they don’t I would just excuse myself. Regarding the fear of closing down the communication because of history I would encourage you to trust that you can build relationships rather than destroy them. That was the relationship they had with them back then. You are different, the result does not have to be the same thing.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:23am

  182. 182: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    I need some advice, Sirens.

    The last guy I dated works at the same place as I do. Our schedules only seem to cross maybe 1-2 times per week, and my job requires me to walk past his work area several times in the course of my day.

    The first time I saw him after the split was a week after he ended it; we made eye contact and I nodded as I walked past. He smiled really big, like he was really happy that I was still acknowledging him, and that was painful for me, because it was like he thought we were ok, and we were NOT ok.

    The following week, he approached me and asked how I was doing. We had a small conversation about the things we’d been doing since the breakup.

    For the next two weeks, I ignored him. When I walked past his area, I would not make eye contact. I would maybe stop to talk with others in his area, but I refused to look at him, because it was too painful. Then one day when I was feeling really good and confident about myself, I looked at him, and I could tell he was working very hard not to give me eye contact, very intent on what he was doing to avoid my gaze. I have to admit, it felt good to think that I’d gotten to him.

    But then last week, I was feeling guilty for my refusal to acknowledge him, so I went to his area and said hello. Maybe it’s my imagination, but he lit up, and we had a friendly conversation. Again, he acted like nothing was wrong, and as if I hadn’t even been ignoring him for two weeks.

    Now I am at a loss as to where to go from here. I will not deny that I’d like to have him back, but I am not opposed to dating others. I’d gladly welcome him into my “rotation,” lol, because I do intend to CDate. It’s only been in the past week or so that I’ve been able to admit that I want him back, but that I’m ready to date other men.

    After watching TMR earlier this week, I feel I made a mistake in breaking my ignoring streak. So what now? Do I resume ignoring him? Do I try to stay friendly? Do I ignore him most of the time, but acknowledge him on occasion, just to keep him on his toes?

    What do you think?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:41am

  183. 183: LuckyNo Gravatar says:

    First time here…got the ebook, was so transforming I just finished the Siren Program- wow.

    Rori’s blogs are literally creating a new path for me to love myself and be able to consider that I could have a relationship. 2 divorces, a life of self hatred and hiding, this past year I literally wanted to die(I never would, just really felt that way- like, take me now!) No man was allowed anywhere near me for the last 2 years- wouldn’t let it. And I am in the business of healing OTHERS…never felt it for myself.

    And then, I entertained just a “hint” of the idea of finding a casual, fun guy….and, boom, younger man comes into my life thru Craig’s List(of all places…I was selling something, not myself LOL)….

    there is a new warmth and different feeling I am getting from this one…so, I start freaking out, cause of my rules above that I have lived by for years and I start doing my “old” routine, getting totally freaked out, anxious, protecting myself, just being totally wierd cause I am so scared from the past abuse….then Rori’s work enters my life.

    So for the last month I have been casually dating this man, Rori taught me to use it as a “workshop”(what a difference that makes!)… and it has been AMAZING- not so much because of what he is doing, but because of who I am being, with MYSELF….feeling so much love for me, regardless of what he is doing, not worrying about the future, but paying attention to the present and, most importantly, how I feel. Honoring myself first, and always.

    Dilemma- So now, he is a full time student, NO money, and he has backed away from me. He says he is stressed financially. (this is a tough one for me cause I am older than him, already run several businesses, both successes and failures, but am comfortable in the male role of “fixing”, etc…and I see that it is a mistake to bring these qualities into my relationships…)

    Rori’s blog here reminds me not to take his actions personally- and I am finally getting this!
    It also allows me to keep my heart in the relationship- for myself, and him.

    But…Question I have is how to approach this one without leaning forward? I want to keep him in my life and let him know that the feelings I have when he is around is more important to me than the money he has to spend on me, or lack of. But, I also know how important being financial supportive to your woman is to a man, makes him feel like a man, and I want him to feel like a man, and me a woman too!

    Any ideas how to keep communication? He lives a few hrs away, so we don’t see each other much- just phone/computer.

    Thanks to all of you!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:43am

  184. 184: IzzyNo Gravatar says:

    I found this message that my ex-boyfriend wrote 3 years ago:

    “Tell me what you think and I’ll be your friend
    Give me a kiss and I’ll fall in love
    Give me your heart and I’ll belong to you
    I love you my little girl”

    So if you tell a guy what you think, he will be a friend. If you express your heart, your feelings, he will belong to you. I thought it was sweet when I read it the first time, now I think it is wise.

    Well, we broke up 2 and half months ago and I met a new guy. He asked me to be his girlfriend and I told him that I feel really special that he is asking, and asked him what that meant to him. He said it meant friendship, affection, partnership, etc, etc. And I said what about exclusivity? He said that cheating would be the end. And then he said he got cheated a while ago and he spent years so wanting a close relationship because of it. Every time things started to get serious, he would back off. Then I told him that at this moment in my life I’m looking for a life partner. And he said I want the same thing. I’m thinking of you seriously. Then I said yes to being his girlfriend exclusively. Detail: we haven’t had sex yet. I thought it was too quick, because he asked me to be his girlfriend two weeks after we met. And he seems really, really interested. I feel taken care of. He paid for all dates, he almost cried when he was talking about the close relationship he has with this brother, he has a good job and he bought his own apartment last week. He is 30 and I’m 31. I feel surprised that a guy is so into me so fast, especially considering that he has been avoiding comitted relationships. How do you girls think it went?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:46am

  185. 185: DENo Gravatar says:


    If I were in your situation, I would first leave town for a few days (weekend the least), do something fun, relaxing for myself…clear my head without having to see him all the time…

    Next step, get my schedule busy on evenings…really, make new friends…go out at least 3 times a week…for a couple of hours the least…

    I would absolutely stop talking to him about us…

    The only time I would be open to it…if he has a plan…so, my question to him would be…”Oh, you would like to talk? Okay…Do u have plan to discuss? Oh, you still trying to figure it out? Hmm…I don’t feel good entertaining wishy -washy discussions any longer…let me know when u have something concrete…”

    Focusing on me is a must…attend my feelings, my needs…if he offers to help, i would feel open…but I would no longer ask him for anything…

    U voice feels stronger than before…and that feels good to notice…

    Warm hugs,

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:48am

  186. 186: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    145: Hey, Elizabeth and Rosa:

    I like that “I feel____ when you___” structure and am actually aware of it from Management training and have used it effectively in business from time to time.

    My dilemma: I have hesitated to use it with men b/c of the “you.” I recall Rori encouraging us to avoid the word “you” when addressing a man about a feeling we have about him or something he’s done. It’s so challenging!! I feel conflicted here, because you know and he knows that you are addressing the situation, and even if you are owning your own feelings…well…it’s just so hard not to say “YOU” or refer to what he did. I suppose Rori’s “I feel_______; I want_______; I don’t want________” construction could still apply here. For example:

    Siren: “I felt uncomfortable and bad for our waitress at dinner the other night. I want to be respectful of people and happy when I’m out with a man. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable for the wait staff or feel negativity on what I want to be a relaxing evening of warmth and connection. What do you think?”

    Dude: “What the hell are you going on about?”

    Hahahaha! Sorry–tension breaker. I have gotten this response from less gentle men when I talk like this however.

    Elizabeth? Rosa? What do you think about that construction?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:59am

  187. 187: DENo Gravatar says:


    My “gut” feeling is telling me he wants U to make the decision about separation/divorce…this way he is released from “responsibility”…many men do it :(

    That’s why is sooo important to not make it too easy for him…I would leave my life in such a way…that he will either want to work on getting back 110% or let me go pronto…within two months (i give myself a dateline to move out me or him)…dragging things are awful for your spirit…and leaving under the same roof is even worse…

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:00am

  188. 188: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa and Elizabeth and all:

    The above work-through on the non-accusatory FM came to me last night after BoyScout finally called to end things with me. He stumbled and hemmed and hawed and really struggled to say it, and I just stayed silent and tried to respect his thought process. He finally choked out that it’s the distance, and it’s not fair to me b/c he knows I want a committed relationship and we can’t build that only seeing each other twice a month, and yes, he’s got money troubles and can’t treat me how I deserve, and he’s just not in a good place and he’s been depressed, and the practicalities of our lives make it “too hard”…and so on.

    It always feels awful to be broken up with, even when you also know it’s not working and the guy really just beat you to the punch. So when he was finished, I said:

    “Thank you for your honesty. I feel sad that I won’t see you again. I feel a bit confused because I thought we had a wonderful time this weekend, but I also feel a bit relieved. I want to be with a man who thinks nothing of a two-hour drive to come be with me, who is in an emotional and practical position to “come claim me” as his. I don’t want to be with a man who has to work up his energy to be with me or who sees being with me as another struggle in his life. I have feelings for you and I feel good about our intellectual connection, and I feel thankful for the nice things you did for me. But I feel relieved now not wondering too if we were right for each other.”

    We chatted a bit more–he said he admires my “class” and maturity and that he hopes there’s a good step-up man out there for me, because I deserve it. And once again I had to hear about how “strong” I am. (It’s a sore spot for me, I admit. It’s the main word I hear applied to me. And yesterday, Rori referred to my voice as, “powerful.” I feel anxiety over being seen this way–isn’t a Siren supposed to be inwardly strong but outwardly soft? Which I must not be doing right if everyone assigns these masculine labels to me…anyway, that’s a whole other issue perhaps for another time.)

    So I learned a lot. I got a really good opportunity to use feeling messages in a stressful situation. I practiced STOPPING and not talking until I sank into and identified what I was feeling (so hard for me up to now). Then I told him what I was feeling and what I want and don’t want.

    Thanks. Felt good to relay this and how I am getting better at communicating this way.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:19am

  189. 189: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    I’m a little confused. If you and your live-in bf have been together for 13 mos. haven’t you already met/talked to/ran into many of his previous lovers before you ever knew they were such? Cousin’s parties, cheerleading games, social events?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:19am

  190. 190: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Izzy, it sounds like you have set off his alarm. He wants to get you off the dating market and keep you for himself. Your story sounds a bit like mine at this moment. I think it is hard for us to realize that a guy can be that into us in such a short time period. I am learning to just roll with it, be in the moment, and be surprised. I’m liking it so far!

    I love the note your ex wrote!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:25am

  191. 191: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mel I like what DE says. It also triggered a memory that when in a relationship men depend on the woman for the emotional lead. I would only add review the commitment you made aboyut yourself or to yourself when you had the discussion with him. See how you told him you were going to live your life and stick by that commitment.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:28am

  192. 192: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Boomer. Your communication with feeling messages was perfect. It is still so hard for me to do that. Especially in everyday talk. I have to think so hard for it to come out it doesn’t sound natural.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:28am

  193. 193: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Lucky, I would leave it until he brings it up again.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:30am

  194. 194: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer I loved how you handled that.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:30am

  195. 195: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Mel, I agree with DE. My ex did the same, left the decision up to me in his own passive way. The thing is I realize now that he did that several times over the past 2 years until I finally made the decision – one that should have been made sooner. I admire that you are thinking about yourself in a way that a move may be in order. It shows that your mind is in the right place – on YOU!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:32am

  196. 196: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 182 Hi LobbyStar love your name. I sense that ignoring him could come across as playing games. Are you CDating?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:32am

  197. 197: BoomerNo Gravatar says:


    “If he wants to work things out, I don’t have to accept any positions (if they are offered).”

    This is so true. Get your ducks in a row, use interviews as practice as FW suggests (which will also send you back home for periods to get support from friendly loved ones), and just start creating possible paths for yourself.

    Wow, I am SOOOO impressed by you right now, Mel. I love that you are taking care of yourself and acknowledging that MEL MATTERS here! Hugs!!!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:32am

  198. 198: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa, you wow me. Your voice here is so competent and kind and strong. I just wanted you to know that I admire your clarity and kindness. Your words always inspire me to do better and to be more thoughtful.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:35am

  199. 199: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    Lobby Star – I agree with FW about the ignoring feels like playing games. Is this how you want your work environment to be? That would be awfully hard to continue and makes for a difficult work situation. How can you get back to being more natural and authentic when you happen to see him at work?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:35am

  200. 200: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    186. Boomer

    Boomer, I think the construction of your feeling message is great. :-)

    my caveat: inherent in this feeling message is your unacceptance of what you perceive as his unacceptable behavior; you are clearly not talking in generalities. You are inferring “him”, without a doubt.

    In my experience, avoiding saying “you”, or “what you said” in no way guarantees that he is not going to get defensive, and say something like, “Are you saying that you think I treated our server badly?” or “what are you trying to imply (or allude to or insinuate)?”

    Sometimes I would just rather get to the heart of the matter instead of dancing around the issue, because they know what you mean anyway and a lot of them would rather that you say it up front.

    For me, what is more at the core of the issue, *no matter how you word things*, no matter how much you take responsibility for your feelings, no matter how you are not judging him as a person,

    is this:

    If a certain kind of man senses that you are not happy with the way he does things — If he perceives (accurately or inaccurately) that you are more unhappy than happy — the chances are he’s not going to stick around, because he will feel you are trying to change him. Other men may react differently.

    So, again. It all just depends. On the people involved, their “stuff”, the dynamics of their relationship and each situation. Obviously any kind of language is going to work differently on a mentally ill person than it will on a more emotionally stable one. For me, I have chosen not to have to have a predominant role of playing crisis counselor in my relationships with men going forward!

    What do you think?


    Boomer said:
    My dilemma: I have hesitated to use it with men b/c of the “you.” I recall Rori encouraging us to avoid the word “you” when addressing a man about a feeling we have about him or something he’s done. It’s so challenging!! I feel conflicted here, because you know and he knows that you are addressing the situation, and even if you are owning your own feelings…well…it’s just so hard not to say “YOU” or refer to what he did. I suppose Rori’s “I feel_______; I want_______; I don’t want________” construction could still apply here. For example:

    Siren: “I felt uncomfortable and bad for our waitress at dinner the other night. I want to be respectful of people and happy when I’m out with a man. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable for the wait staff or feel negativity on what I want to be a relaxing evening of warmth and connection. What do you think?”

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:37am

  201. 201: MelNo Gravatar says:


    I just told him that I loved him, wanted to work on the marriage, but that I wasn’t happy with the way things were. That there are certain things I can compromise on, but others that I can’t accept in a marriage.

    He said he just didn’t know if he wanted to be married and that he wasn’t sure he was willing to make an effort. He said he would go to a counselor on his own and try one session with me to see if he could figure it out.

    That’s where we left things. Just kind of up in the air.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:40am

  202. 202: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:


    wow, i am very impressed,
    that was a very heart-warming, and yes, classy and mature way to respond, Boomer!
    you are doing so great :-)


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:43am

  203. 203: KSNo Gravatar says:

    Thoughts and prayers are with you. I know how it feels to want so badly to make things work. In my experience, my husband only got serious when he realized I loved him but I had other options and was not afraid to walk….which I actually did (for a whole year). He treats me much different now and there is a greater level of respect. You seem to be doing the right things and I know you will find your way. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:52am

  204. 204: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mel Then I would love him whenever he opened up to me and stick by my boundaries. I wonder what he means by “make an effort?” Did he clarify that?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:58am

  205. 205: KSNo Gravatar says:

    Soooooo true about people with mental illness reacting differently to feeling messages.

    Toxic man was diagnosed with Bi-polar, PTSD, and a variety of others.
    His response to my first feeling msg was “Huh”? Then HE started using feeling messages. Lol (monkey see, monkey do??????)

    My husband is a a$$ sometimes but no diagnosed mental illness.
    His response to my first feeling msg was “Wow. There is something really different about your communication.”


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:00am

  206. 206: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FW and T-Girl. Thanks. Having that FM conversation with BoyScout last night was a major milestone for me emotionally.

    For the first time with a man, I am not bemoaning what “I did wrong” to make yet another man leave me.

    I realize this is about him and his depression, finances, ability to be a partner, strength, and desires. It occurs to me that I had set the bar for what I want in a relationship and he found himself under that bar, and so removed himself from the running.

    It really is a case of him saying: “It’s not you; it’s me!”

    Huh. How ’bout that?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:00am

  207. 207: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 203 Mel I know that little word respect could go a long way. He will appreciate if you respect him now. One of my beliefs is that people know what they need to make them happy so I am comfortable allowing them to choose that for themselves and I let them know I respect that.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:02am

  208. 208: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer I think it is great. Also it would be great if you are open to communicate with him if he contacts you some time in the future. He must know you respect him so it does not diminish his masculinity. I am sure he will be okay.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:04am

  209. 209: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:


    Dear Mel,

    I know this must be a difficult time for you,
    and I feel for you and send you love and support.

    you said:
    “he said that he wasn’t sure he was willing to make an effort. He said he would go to a counselor on his own and try one session with me to see if he could figure it out.”

    fwiw, the moment I knew without a doubt that my marriage was irretrievably over, was when both of us knew for sure that we were no longer willing to make the effort.

    up in the air is not an easy or comfortable place to be…….hugs to you, Mel


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:07am

  210. 210: BoomerNo Gravatar says:


    Sorry you had to struggle with the sadness of mental illness in a partner. I thought I was the damaged/”crazy” one for so long, didn’t you? In addition to his clinical issues, he also did hurtful things not related to his diagnosis and was just wrong for me all around. I had some sympathy, but the deep damage was done. The diagnosis helped clarify things in some ways, but there I was, still in a marriage with a non-functioning partner and a brood of kids to care for. I can’t imagine FMs EVER working on him then! Although I use them carefully now with him (he’s medicated and coping reasonably well) on issues regarding the kids, and it’s not going too badly. He very much values “logic,” and as ours is essentially a business relationship now, being “boy” with him usually works best.

    I’m glad your “a$$hat” is responding to you. Keep doing it! It’s exciting, isn’t it?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:07am

  211. 211: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FW, 208:

    Ha, yes! BoyScout said last night that he had found a CD that day that he knew I’d love and that we could talk about together…and that it deepened his sadness to feel he could not just share those things with me anymore. I didn’t invite him to “give me a call any old time!” because I don’t really want that right now, and I felt relieved that there was no “let’s be friends” stuff mentioned. But he did say that he’s fairly certain over the next eight weeks he’ll date local women and sadly realize that “they are not you.”


    I admit to rolling my eyes a bit at him using FMs back at me (yeah, I think that bugs a lot of us here), but he is a gentle soul with some stress right now, so I can let that go and still feel warm toward him, or at least toward the idea of him.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:13am

  212. 212: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer about that strong voice I sense that the man you belong to will not find that intimidating. As a matter of fact I imagine it is something he will be attracted to if that is the genuine you. I would encourage you though to find a place where you can use that with your boy energy outside of the relationship so that it feels useful. That migth be your warrior goddess that shows her head when she emerges and I hear you but I would pour love on her too. There is a post from way back that Rori wrote about it. Can’t remember right now where it is but will try to look for it for you

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:18am

  213. 213: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    I do like it when they use feeling messages back because it shows me that they feel emotionally safe with me and I have helped them get in touch with their emotions. But I wouldn’t want that at the expense of them wanting to care about my feelings more than theirs. I try to look at what’s going on in a circumspect kind of way. Are their words, their behavior, over time, indicating they want to be predominantly the feminine energy or the other way around? How is any leaning forward, overfunctioning energy that I’m doing affecting all of this?


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:18am

  214. 214: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    kaitlyn – I love that he asked you for more, and no it’s not leaning forward to respond. You could tell him about your project, but I like the other better for openers. Here’s what you wrote tweaked some.

    “I felt so good when you called me the other day. I loved hearing that you missed me. I feel shy right now…like we’re getting to know each other all over again. I feel warm and melty.”


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:19am

  215. 215: MelNo Gravatar says:


    I think he just meant whether or not he was willing to change or compromise on some of his behaviors. And also put in the effort it would take to heal the marriage (making time for us, being transparent and honest, building back trust).

    I was kind of left with the impression that I should just accept the new him and not expect to have any of my needs met.


    I agree. I think he’s looking for me to take the lead on this. He doesn’t want to be the bad guy. He also doesn’t want to have to deal with all of the financial and logistical concerns right now. He doesn’t know if he wants to be married, so he’s just going to act like he’s single and not commit to anything. But at the same time, he doesn’t want me to leave because then he can’t afford our apartment, would have to sell our car, etc… etc. It feels like for now, staying married is “convenient” for him. In a few months, when he gets his big raise… well then “he’s considering getting his own place.”

    I have a place I could live, and a family who’s willing to help me out until I get back on my feet. I don’t really feel like “waiting around” just so that he doesn’t have to worry about the bills.

    If he wants to offer some sort of commitment, that’s great! I’m curious to see what his goals are for “us” in counseling. If his position is just “I don’t know…” and “I’m not willing to do anything right now” well… why am I here?

    That’s why a back up plan is important for me. I don’t want to feel used. I want to be happy (with or without him). I don’t really feel like living with a man who has no intention of loving me like I deserve simply because it’s convenient.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:19am

  216. 216: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth–a thoughtful distinction. I’m gonna chew on that. I’m so new to FMs and my ability to even form them in my brain let alone say them, that when one trips off a man’s tongue effortlessly, it feels weird to me. I feel jealous that he can say it so easily when I struggle with them.

    I want to be the girl! I want to be the girl!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:22am

  217. 217: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Well, I am firmly back in the saddle and officially CDing again, getting lots of interest on pof from a better quality of men than in the past…am avoiding overfunctioning and using feeling messages with them….it’s working very nicely, i have such a wonderful warm feeling around it all….I have two dates lined up for this weekend, accepting from whoever asks first, not waiting for one I think I might like better. :-)


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:23am

  218. 218: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, Mel! Go YOU!!!!

    That last message–wow. I just love love love where you are now and how you’ve committed to taking care of yourself.

    Your grace under fire is amazing!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:24am

  219. 219: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    I just got to the he called part. YAY!!! Please disregard above.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:26am

  220. 220: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer, I want to encourage you to stay in that feeling of excitement you have when you do “be the girl” and let it grow and grow because you will want to stay in it most of the time, and it will become second nature.

    I am having such fun with it. My male relatives who were visiting, and even my dad, are responding so well to this “new me”. Stepping up as men. Such great practice for me. I’m loving it!!!

    I’m so excited for us all!!!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:27am

  221. 221: KSNo Gravatar says:

    Ok Sirens….This may be a long post but I would appreciate ANY and ALL thoughts on this as I am really trying to process this experience and could use some help.

    I have not been obsessing over Toxic man for about three weeks. It feels really good cuz it was so bad I was thinking of him 24 hours a day….NOT being dramatic….it was literally consuming me! Now I realized that I really just wanted a DO-OVER because I acted like such a psycho when we ended things…..and I wanted to be able to walk away like a Siren. (Boomer-This reminds me of that crazy making behavior a mentally-ill person has the abilitly to induce in you if you don’t have good boundries and walk away in time!)

    Soooooooo….since I felt I was FINALLY over toxic man I decided to be intimate with my husband again since he has come back. It felt so wierd. RIGHT after we started being intimate I felt the most intense physical desire for Toxic man that I started to cry and could not stop. I felt invaded and I hated him. I felt like he had left some friggin dna imprint of his on my brain and my body that made me only his somehow. My husband was cool but I admit I lied about why I was crying.

    I was scared this would throw me back into obsessing about him but it hasnt. I have thought about him more but mostly just tryin to figure this out.

    I had this weird dream about him last night and it was kinda sex focused. Not me and him though. I was just there in the house with him and he was doing all this deviant sexual stuff while I was takin care of the kids and trying to do the “family thing”.

    Soooooo WTF? I just wanna process this so I don’t get stuck here but I feel confused about all this!

    What do ya’ll think?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:28am

  222. 222: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    202: Elizabeth: I had not seen your kudos up there. Thank you! That means a lot to me!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:29am

  223. 223: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    196: FW

    I am not yet CDating; I only learned of it this week, but I am ready, as soon as I gets me some mens to date! lol

    Re 199: T-Girl

    He and I work at the same place, but we do not work with each other. There is no need for us to interact, beyond a social aspect. So this does not affect the work environment for me. There is no tension or anything. I’m just doing my job without taking the time to socialize with him, like I did when we were seeing each other. I guess you could say I’ve reverted to my natural and authentic self from before we dated.

    And I don’t know how to make myself feel good when I’m walking by his work area. I felt bad ignoring him, and I felt bad after I talked to him. I can avoid his area to some extent, but sometimes there is no avoiding it. So I don’t know what to do, which is why I’m here!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:32am

  224. 224: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    222 Boomer

    Did you see #200 I responded to you also.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:37am

  225. 225: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer, I too usually have a strong voice when I write and speak, and people remark about it. What helped me was to use the blog to practice feminine voice and vulnerability… My voice here is much softer, and all this practice has drawn out a vulnerability that consistently brings out the knight in shining armor in men. Men rush to protect me – it is lovely and amazing! They say things about me that mean “strong inside, soft outside.” They read my strong public voice and experience my soft private voice.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:39am

  226. 226: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    200 Elizabeth:

    I didn’t see this one either!

    Hmmm. Again, I’m conflicted and struggling. I sometimes feel damned if I do and damned if I don’t with the FM “rules.”

    Old Boomer would have said, “Dude, that was so uncomfortable. The way you snapped your fingers at the waitress and groused all night because your margarita was late? Not cool.”

    I know…NOT effective. So I am at least proud that I do better now, even if some tweaking is called for.

    As I said and you said, he knows and you know what you’re really trying to say, and unless you can completely eliminate the judgment, it’s really hard to be clear about what you are taking issue with.

    Which feels like it’s full circle to Rosa’s question: How do you deliver effective FMs that do not blame even when he is directly causing you to wince/feel uncomfortable/feel unsafe?


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:39am

  227. 227: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    They see me take care of myself – and they want to take care of me bc I show that vulnerability. You mentioned your “bravado” – I noticed that too about you, and I wonder if that is the block here. Bravado is the exact opposite of vulnerability. Maybe it is also what creates the dissonance btwn responses to your profile and irl. Just some thoughts. <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:44am

  228. 228: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 221 Sounds like your unconscious mind and maybe you could use the cutting cord ritual of LG to take your energy back.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:48am

  229. 229: TulipNo Gravatar says:

    I wonder has anyone got any advice for this: My BF finished with me and has left some items at my home. I was really upset when he ended it and I have also been quite ill. Just starting to feel better last few days. I received a text from him that was curt, and telly offy saying i have had plenty of time to sort out him getting his stuff and would I organise this now or give him some pointer as to when he could collect.
    I’m happy to for him to have his stuff, I have just not felt strong enough to contact him. I feel bad he is taking a little old tv though as my daughter enjoys watching that and she will feel its loss (he has a very good income and I feel that he is taking that as a statement). When he finished it he said when should get the stuff and I said I’d let him know when was good. I never did. The tone of the text made me feel small and stupid Yuck!
    I feel gutted – he also never said goodbye to my daughter who he has known for 2 1/2 years and who was quite fond of him. Any suggestions for how to reply?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:49am

  230. 230: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    226. They key to keeping blame and judgment out of FM’s is to learn to authentically Not blame and judge, period. If we try to construct FM’s that *hide* our blame/judgment, we will fail. If we work on actually *eliminating* blame/judgment, our FM’s will be genuine and non-threatening bc they are truly about Us, not him.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:56am

  231. 231: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #229 Tulip,

    I sense a reluctance on your part to give him his stuff because as long as you have it, he has reason to contact you. Perhaps somewhere deep down you are hoping he will change his mind about ending the relationship?

    I would hate feeling small and stupid. And it’s very sad that he never said goodbye to your daughter. Giving him back his things means you won’t have to look at them as constant “reminders”. Can you look at it as a way of freeing you to move on?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:58am

  232. 232: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    What I hear in these questions about FM’s is “How can I effectively pretend I’m not blaming him when I really am? How can I fool him into thinking I’m not judging him?”

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:59am

  233. 233: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Lucy, thanks for your thoughts on the strength thing.

    If I did not so love my pretty hair, and having my nails done, and making babies, and rockin’ some kickin’ curves…my brain would have asked for a sexual-reassignment procedure long ago.

    From early childhood, I have been logical, practical, cognitive, and a do-er. I was praised occasionally for it too, but sporadically, so I kept upping the ante until I was THE BEST at those things. My progress at unearthing my girl-self since being here is good. But there’s much still to do.

    Friends and people who love me admire my strength and point it out often. I would not be as semi-sane and alive as I am without having clung to that strength through some very dark periods. My mother always said that the women in our family are inherently stronger than the men, and I was praised for being strong like her in that tradition. I have a fair amount of reprogramming to contend with if I want to completely change “who I am.”

    Which begs the question for me: Do I want to change?

    I am still answering THAT question for myself. I must be open to it if I keep coming back here to explore my options. Do I want to be free to be me just as I am (“I love accept myself deeply and profoundly”), or do I turn my energies toward being this more “appropriate woman” for men. Old feminist tapes play in my head as well.

    Oh, I feel terrified right now–I fear I am triggering women all over this blog with my self-labeling and my quotation marks and my visceral voice and my intellectual tendencies. I feel misunderstood here sometimes because of my communication choices and my gritty, nuts-and-bolts views. I feel even more terrified that I will just be ignored, prompting me to do one of two things: up the ante and be obnoxious with my brand of humor or simply withdraw.

    I am trying to embrace my fear. But then…is that too strong?? Ugh! It seems so much easier to be a man in this world rather this weird hybrid-girl-body/boy-brain construction that I seem to be.

    Lucy, sorry–you were not counting on that can of worms, were you? I feel grateful for your insight, truly.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:59am

  234. 234: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 223 LobbyStary what are you still judging yourself about? It sounds like it is all in your head to me? I might be wrong but it sounds like you might be telling yourself something.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:00am

  235. 235: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    Lucy, thanks for sharing your opinion. I would rather focus on BOTH parties getting their needs met in relationship, sharing feeling messages from life, human needs, ala non-violent communication.
    To me, this is the quickest way out of “emotional prison”. Feelings always come from needs that are either being met or not met. Even positive feelings. That is why I like to examine what is motivating my feelings. It makes my feeling messages more authentic and I am taking responsibility for my feelings that way.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:03am

  236. 236: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 233 Not to me Boomer, it sounds like you processing. It feels to me like you need some arena for that voice of part of you for it to get acknowledged. You change for you not any man. I am changing to what I have made peace with that I prefer. I am wondering if there is some public speaking arena that you could take on and focus that energy. Maybe at one of the kids school? That way you could talk to yourself and do the swtiching hats tool where you visualize switch them when going on dates. That just came to me.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:04am

  237. 237: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer pour some love on your weird mutant personality. Maybe if you do things could psychologically switch? I don’t even think it is weird.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:06am

  238. 238: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #232 Lucy,

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:07am

  239. 239: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I should add Boomer that I was a warrior as a child. When I started this inner work last year I mourned her death as I realized I was no longer enarmoured by that personality. After that uninvited mourning I accepted myself as a softer personality and I just love it. I made peace with my warrior persona so now she appears for banter with guys. When I outwit them she comes out as “damn I’m good, I just love me”. Guys always die laughing at that. I use her in converations mostly with groups of guys.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:10am

  240. 240: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer, I totally get it, and I get you. Everything you wrote there about yourself is also true of me, including thoughts of an operation(!) I have always been seen as strong, and just yesterday, a man who protects me and calls me “feminine” used a word even stronger than “strong” to describe me. We not only Can be both – we Are both! It’s not about changing who we are – it’s about Facing who we are deep inside. You Are vulnerable – I see it so clearly through your bravado. Vulnerable is part of who you ar

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:12am

  241. 241: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    part of who you are.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:13am

  242. 242: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 232 Talk about awareness.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:14am

  243. 243: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer Elizabeth et al on FM construction…

    Thank you for the lovely examples of how to use either NVC or FM to address the behavior. Your examples helped me spend some time with myself getting clear on how I wanted to handle my behavior.

    I had another long talk last night with my long distance CD — I will call him Buff&Gruff. I had decided before the call to focus on: 1. let him fill in the silence, 2. be the tour guide of me, not the relationship, 3. Be okay with any outcome.

    At some point, as has happened lately, he made a joke using sarcasm, which rarely translates to me over the phone. I usually say “Hmm, I don’t get it?” and then he patiently goes into a detailed explanation.

    Last night, I said “I feel confused by sarcasm. I don’t feel it translates well over the phone. What do you think?” and then I sat silent. He discussed this for a few minutes, He determined for himself that it was reasonable because he uses it to relieve stress. I just listened.

    When he was quiet, I said “Sarcasm feels negative to me.” And then silence. He thought about it for a few minutes and then agreed. And then he said “I’ll work on the sarcasm.”

    I felt so proud of myself for how I handled that situation! I felt scared and nervous for what he might do, but I had agreed with myself to accept it ahead of time. So I also felt brave to say how I was feeling.

    This is how I believe I will handle the public rude or tactless behavior going forward. The key for me is getting really clear on how I feel before I’m in the situation, and being okay with his disagreement, knowing I can restate my feelings or walk away.

    Love it!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:14am

  244. 244: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    234. FW

    Hmmm. I know I tend to over think things, so maybe (probably?) that’s the case here.

    When I was ignoring him, I started feeling silly and childish, and I didn’t like that, so I guess to continue on that path is not going to work for me. After I talked with him though, I felt like I had conceded something, and I felt like a failure, so I obviously didn’t like that. Where is my happy medium?

    I guess I want to be aware of the message I am sending, however I decide to handle things. I want it to say that I am ok, but that WE (as in he and I) are not ok. Does that make sense?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:15am

  245. 245: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    I just want to say that I also relate to what you write. I’m not sure what you want to ‘change’, you seem wonderful the way you are to me. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:16am

  246. 246: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer – in your paragraph about fear – the fear is an expression of your authentic feminine self (brava!) and notice at the end there you admit an instinct to cover up all your true feelings with humor and such – and can you see that the cover-up part is your defense mechanism (“masculine”), Not the real you?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:19am

  247. 247: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer there is also a post from Rori about bravado. Loneplum and SLV usually are very good at referring back to these things.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:19am

  248. 248: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    FW, thank you, Soul Sista! You always give me healthy food for thought.

    Regarding, “you change for you not any man.” But I’m not sure I want to change sometimes. I feel such conflict at wanting to self-love just as I am and wanting to be the girl with a strong man. I just have to find that balance–and I feel positive that I can strike it eventually. It’s still a work in progress.

    As for an avenue for expressing myself–I used to have a blog, but I had to take it down in a divorce situation. I actually have a book or two in the works. Teaching is always a good avenue for an ENFP: I am shaping a path in my brain for teaching in a culinary setting–life just has to catch up to that eventuality though.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:21am

  249. 249: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 244 How does silly and childish really feel though?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:21am

  250. 250: KSNo Gravatar says:

    Anymore insights on 221?????

    Really learning from the posts about FM’s. I still tend to suffer from speaking without thinking! Thanks

    FW-Did the cord cutting several times. It helped but there still seems to be some residual! Thanks

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:22am

  251. 251: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Also, it’s not about being a “more appropriate” woman for men. It’s about being a more Authentic woman for You… and for the world … and for the relationship you want. <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:23am

  252. 252: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer I love what Lucy is suggesting to you also. I sense that there is some healing to be done as if there is some sadness that you need to grieve and let go. The vulnerability needs to come out.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:23am

  253. 253: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T, thanks. Wow. That felt so good to read. Again: my conflict: am I wonderful just the way I am? Or do I need to be somehow less me the way I am?

    Lucy, I do use humor as a defense mechanism, absolutely, but humor is also a genuine part of my make-up. I am allowing myself to feel how to use that to a feminine advantage and not always in a masculine way. I would not want to squelch it.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:25am

  254. 254: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    235 Elizabeth. I agree with everything you said there… so I feel confused about the words “would rather”….

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:26am

  255. 255: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Boomer I would explore the fear.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:26am

  256. 256: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:


    Foolish, immature… neither of which I want to be.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:28am

  257. 257: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #253 I find humor a good way to sometimes diffuse a tense situation. Feminine as well.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:29am

  258. 258: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    239 FW. Lol! I experience and love those “damn I’m good, I just love me” moments too, just like you describe! 😀

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:35am

  259. 259: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    254: Lucy says:

    235 Elizabeth. I agree with everything you said there… so I feel confused about the words “would rather”….

    Thank you for asking for clarification, Lucy. I realize that I didn’t follow up with what I would rather not do!

    I meant, I would rather not focus in any way, on trying not to come off as being judgmental or not being judgmental.

    Chances are, our discrimination as to what we want or don’t want in our lives is going to come off as judgmental.

    So, I would rather focus on getting everyone’s needs met.

    If this is still confusing, let me know, and thanks again for asking, i appreciate it.

    Hope you and your family are well…hugs to you :-)


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:36am

  260. 260: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    KS, 221:

    In reading what you wrote, I got a sense of you literally being addicted to ToxicMan sexually. Someone mentioned in a recent thread that another expert says it can take up to TWO YEARS to disengage the sexual (hormonal) addiction to a man (FW, was that material from Pat Allen or someone like that?). And that’s if you never see him and never smell him again! Just because your heart and mind want to rejoin your husband, your body may not have gotten the memo! If it were me, I would be feeling scared and frustrated too: how can I overcome such biology!??

    Here are some thoughts:

    – Don’t try to overcome it. Allow yourself to feel/acknowledge how wonderful he was in bed and cherish the thought of your sexual pleasure. But focus on your role in the sexual chemistry–it was not just HIM who was good…YOU were good too. YOU were why it all felt so good to you!
    – Try to use that energy/focus in bed with your husband: sex with me is ALWAYS good, because I’M good at it!
    – Forgive yourself for crying with your husband–reunion sex is very emotional and there’s a lot going on for you, so allow yourself to feel whatever you feel. And I might suggest not beating yourself up for “lying” to him about it. I have a new realization that it is critical that I feel what I feel fully, but that I have no obligation to express it outwardly to anyone, and in fact, sometimes it’s “not a good time.” to share. Feel what you feel when you cry and then sleep well.

    I hope that was helpful. I feel like a fake sometimes–like I have no business advising other women when I have my own tangled, messy stuff, but I also feel proud of my insights from my “field work” consisting of two marriages, four kids, countless dates, and so on. Warmth and gentleness to you…

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:41am

  261. 261: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Oh Boomer! I am not suggesting that you squelch your humor! In fact, as I have become more authentic in expressing myself, my humor has increased and it brings pleasure to myself and others. I was Only referring to when humor is used to Hide the real you. Yes, you are wonderful exactly the way you are! That’s really the whole point of all this – all Rori’s teaching – be You! Express the Real You. Don’t cover up your Real feelings, fears, hopes, sadness with a Mask. Sometimes we have worn these masks for so

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:47am

  262. 262: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    LobbyStar those as I suspected are thoughts so it sounds to me like you are listening to your NVs and beating up on yourself. I can accept silly because for me that is how I am when I am joking. Feelings are more afraid, hot, cold, sad, overwhelmed. What are you feeling when you are in his presence? Is it tension? If so where in your body does it show up and what is it surrounding? Those are the things I explore with myself.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:47am

  263. 263: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    so long, that we think they are part of our face! We need to start peeling off the mask so that we can see how much of it is Real (and much of it is!) and how much of it is Defense, Bravado, Walls (and much of it is…) <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:49am

  264. 264: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth and Lucy:

    Yes, this is the crux of the “judgment” thing for me.

    Sometimes what some people call “judgment” is “discernment.”

    What I want and don’t want are completely fair things for me to feel and articulate and choose for myself. I think if a man takes it as blame and does not want to be with me, sometimes…sometimes… that’s got to be on him. We were not for each other. We examine what we said, what we did, how we felt with him…and learn. DO better/different next time. Or feel confident that we did well and it really is “his stuff.”

    I sense that several deep-feeling women on here struggle with the intellectual vibe of others (and vice versa), but I am starting to wonder if it’s really it’s just a shade of meaning.

    Gonna go to my Boomer Zone and continue to explore this.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:50am

  265. 265: BoomerNo Gravatar says:

    And sigh…yes, FW…consider exploring my fears. I have several. I feel partially grateful to you and partially irritated that you poke me with your truth.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:50am

  266. 266: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Was it Rori who sad without that happiness or the ability to be happy one is not being feminine?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:55am

  267. 267: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 265 Hush sweet Boomer, I’ll love you till I die.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:57am

  268. 268: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    That was Pat Allen’s material that Loneplum posted above.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:58am

  269. 269: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    “I sense that several deep-feeling women on here struggle with the intellectual vibe of others (and vice versa), but I am starting to wonder if it’s really it’s just a shade of meaning. ”

    Yes, I feel that also. I hope there’s room for all.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:59am

  270. 270: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Couldn’t have said it better myself, Lucy.

    264: Boomer~

    I love this and you are right on the money here.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:06am

  271. 271: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    264. Boomer

    To take responsibility for other’s feelings is to be in emotional prison. To take no responsibility, as in, “hey, i’m not responsible for how you feel” is just as limiting.

    When everyone can get clear on their needs, those that are deep, human needs, (not the ones we have been conditioned by society to *think* we need),

    and commit to help each other fulfill those needs, then maybe we are getting somewhere!!


    “I sense that several deep-feeling women on here struggle with the intellectual vibe of others (and vice versa), but I am starting to wonder if it’s really it’s just a shade of meaning. ”

    I feel my feelings in my body just as much as the next person, but I also know that feelings come from beliefs and other things. I like to explore this with my partner and trusted friends in a safe, accepting, open, communicative, nurturing environment.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:08am

  272. 272: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    “Sometimes what some people call “judgment” is “discernment.”

    Yes. I have, over the years, participated in philosophical discussions up the waz*oo about this very topic LOL.

    In the big scheme of things, I am the one who has to discern what is right for me, and my evolution as an individual who is not separate from the whole,

    on a continuous on-going basis, regardless of what anyone else, including myself, thinks about it (judging, not judging) What looks right to one, may look wrong to another. You can’t please all the people all the time.

    also, remember, things can change on a dime…that means ALL things.

    Yes, we want to coordinate that with what is right for others, but ultimately, we are responsible for our own feelings and behaviors and creating our own lives.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:15am

  273. 273: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    269: Lily T.says:

    “I sense that several deep-feeling women on here struggle with the intellectual vibe of others (and vice versa), but I am starting to wonder if it’s really it’s just a shade of meaning. ”

    Yes, I feel that also. I hope there’s room for all.

    Hey Lily, I feel no reason for concern, like my grandma used to say when we asked to invite an extra friend over for dinner, and wondering if there was enough room at the table,
    “Don’t worry, we’ll make room!”


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:25am

  274. 274: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 269 Boomer I believe that where we allow a person to be themselves, show understanding and love there is room.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:27am

  275. 275: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #273 Elizabeth,

    I have felt that way though here…that there are those who would rather NOT make room for discussions that have an intellectual vibe.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:28am

  276. 276: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, thank you for your comment #272.

    As I read it, I was feeling anxious, recalling memories of my family members.

    I recall feeling their disappointment and judgment and blame at the news of my divorce…each time, it seemed to grow.

    I believed I always made the best decisions for me at the time…and I still do, despite well-meaning loved ones feeling I made mistakes.

    Your comment, “Yes, we want to coordinate that with what is right for others, but ultimately, we are responsible for our own feelings and behaviors and creating our own lives,” resonates with me.

    Now I’m conflicted though about the conditional love I experience in my family. I feel the pressure of their assistance and support as being offered on the condition that I make choices that align with what they believe is good for me.

    I feel tremendous tightness in my chest and sharp, stabbing pain behind my left shoulder blade as I sink into this realization.

    Thanks again… more healing to do. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:29am

  277. 277: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    275: Lily T.says:

    #273 Elizabeth,

    I have felt that way though here…that there are those who would rather NOT make room for discussions that have an intellectual vibe.

    Oh, me too, Lily.

    I say, “F&ck ’em if they can’t take a joke.”


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:32am

  278. 278: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #277 Well that’s one way to look at it lol. Another would be to simply ignore discussions that aren’t of interest and START one that would interest like-minded Sirens. Easy.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:36am

  279. 279: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    You guys I am one of them. Rori has this place set out so that were not having intellectual discussions but rather practicing coming from a heart place. We’ve had this coming up many times before.

    The vibe of the blog changes and feels bad with intellectual discussions – and we want you here – and we want to connect with you. The blog is a place for feeling messages, nonjudgemental, riffing… And ‘boy voice’ is for giving advice… And even then, chances are it might not be heard and we have to be careful of word choice.

    I really want to encourage you firmly to practice girl voice – it’s still you, and it makes it feel safe for all of us.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:42am

  280. 280: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I feel shutdown. Again.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:44am

  281. 281: BoomerNo Gravatar says:


    Consider: “We want you here.” “We” versus “you.”

    That feels judgmental and bad for the “you” who process differently.

    I hope there’s room here for everyone as long as they are respectful and sincere. I hope this blog is just not for those who have arrived at Sirenhood, but also for those who are still on their way.

    I would never have known HOW to deliver an FM had several boy-energy “intellectuals” not explained it to me. I feel appreciation for how you teach by example, Daria, but there are many different ways of learning. Hearing that this place is only for people who learn and express in one way…it makes me feel angry, defensive, and protective of those who don’t fit the description (yet…if ever).

    If Rori intends that this be a place only for those who have arrived, she’ll make precious little money and have little impact. I can’t imagine that such exclusivity is her goal.

    Why the need to make everyone see it “our way?” I can go live in a gated community with only middle-class, white Americans who work in IT jobs and marketing and call it safe for me because “this place is only for people like me.” But that deprives my children of the richness that is the real world. I can insist as a teacher that my students listen to audio tapes of my lectures because that’s what works for me. But it excludes those who learn by doing, who are visual, or who need a hybrid approach.

    If I am not right for this place, I will go away and leave it a gated community of homogeneous women. I suspect a large number of more silent, perhaps prudent, women will not stay long either if the “us” folks don’t want the “you” folks.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:17am

  282. 282: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    278: Lily T. says:

    #277 Well that’s one way to look at it lol. Another would be to simply ignore discussions that aren’t of interest and START one that would interest like-minded Sirens. Easy.

    That’s right Lily. That’s what I do.

    Rori says she loves ALL of the voices here.

    She has said she takes a “zen” approach to it all,
    and that’s probably why it works so well, until some bloggers feel the need to structure things.

    There are no terms of service published for this blog that I have seen.

    good cop, bad cop ? gimme a break!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:21am

  283. 283: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:


    Thank you, that is very helpful. When I was ignoring him, for a moment after I’d do it, I felt um… excited, defiant?, proud, but then I’d sink into panic, anxiety. In exploring that feeling, I see now that I was afraid I was pushing him too far away and would not be able to pull him back. Which is why I ended up speaking to him again, which made me feel shame and defeated, because I think I knew I wasn’t doing the right thing for myself. I think pushing him away is exactly what I should be doing.

    What do you think? Am I on the right track here?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:28am

  284. 284: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    276. Xti

    “….Now I’m conflicted though about the conditional love I experience in my family. I feel the pressure of their assistance and support as being offered on the condition that I make choices that align with what they believe is good for me.”

    Xti, yes, that conditional assistance and support thing in my family made me very, very angry. The way I had to deal with that in my family is to not rely on their assistance and support and approval for my emotional, physical and mental well-being or to dictate what I do. I had to be willing to distance myself from it. I worked to not allow it very much influence on what I wanted to do, what I thought was best for me. This is easier said than done, and I am still working on it, because they are not all that conscious of their defense mechanisms and such. After I got divorced many years ago, I became like a dependent child to them again, not only that, but my mom, especially, was looking for a do-over. From working with them in a respectful and authentic way, and because I do not want to alienate myself from my family, they have come around quite a bit, I am happy to report. Hang in there!!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:36am

  285. 285: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Can anyone give an actual example of a FM where there is no ‘you’…stated or implied?

    It’s so hard for me to get out of the “I feel_____ when____” in trying to express myself and only talk about me–no blame or judgement, etc.

    Reading about the restaurant situation really triggered me. I grew up in a home where anger (mine) was never allowed, yet, I always had to be on guard for either parent to snap at me over seemingly nothing. My marriage was also like that. Never again. Impatience is a red flag for me. (Even though the my LT relationship didn’t work out there was none of this impatient, entitlement crap.)

    I’ve read the suggestions, etc. But my brain needs a real example in order to process it and use it as a ‘template’ for future FMs.

    Anybody…? :-)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:08pm

  286. 286: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    260: Boomer  221: KS 268: Femininewoman 

    The info on addiction to bad man is in this link
    on posts 213, 215, 216, 218, 219,
    And the movie « Duty Dating » is in post 154 of the same link


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:29pm

  287. 287: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    What is it you are actually feeling when you perceive someone else to be impatient?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:30pm

  288. 288: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    I feel super weird, uncomfortable, angry, and turned off reading parts of this conversation.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:40pm

  289. 289: KSNo Gravatar says:


    Thanks for your time and thoughtful reply. Made lots of sense to me.

    LP & FW-Thanks for your replies too and the link!

    Appreciate it sirens.

    And the beat goes on…..SLOWLY MOVIN FORWARD. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:49pm

  290. 290: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    I was thinking of Rosa’s post #88 where they were at a restaurant—and she also gave other examples of his impatient ‘vibe.’ And, as she stated, it wasn’t a concrete behavior so much as it was her listening to her inner self.

    >>>”What is it you are actually feeling when you perceive someone else to be impatient?”<<<

    I feel rushed and I feel fear, Lily T.

    I feel like the person is just "putting up with me" and, therefore, anything that takes longer than expected is just 'too much' for the person. (Also, I feel like "it's my fault" but I try not to go there.)

    Or…..is this where we trust our boundaries and choose our words (as in, 'No' when he asks for another date)? If he wanted to know why, what would be the Siren thing to say?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:51pm

  291. 291: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    I feel uncomfortable because I have seen Rori post many times what she created this space for.

    I feel really sad and unsafe.

    I feel happy that I can create safety for myself. I feel happy that I have the freedom to leave and go somewhere that feels good. I feel relieved that I will always take care of me.

    I feel tired of this ongoing discussion.

    I feel inspired to do something nice for myself and focus on things that make my heart sing.

    I feel free to follow my bliss and that feels good.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 12:56pm

  292. 292: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    91: Lilybelle

    I know what you meant but I was trying humour in English lol
    I am not there yet loool


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:00pm

  293. 293: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    Why not go with simplicity?

    If I were ever on a date with a man who snapped his fingers at a server I would feel embarassed. (I’ve BEEN a server). My response to such an incident would depend upon the man. I don’t feel comfortable “correcting” adults as I would a child, so my response might be a simple “I feel embarassed.” Let him absorb that. Or I might make a joke of it, “You didn’t just do that! I snap my fingers at my cat when she does something wrong -sheesh.” Let him feel embarassed. Or, if I didn’t want to go out with the guy again, I might just say nothing. I don’t owe it to myself to correct his bad manners.

    You might say something like “I feel rushed.” or make a joke about him “putting up with you” as examples. Not every feeling message needs to be structured with “a when___” involved.

    Any help?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:01pm

  294. 294: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    It was hilarious, LP and really, was what I needed. So funny.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:03pm

  295. 295: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Right now I am feeling very triggered by what I perceive as cattiness.

    I feel distrustful and unsafe.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:04pm

  296. 296: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    So if I’m feeling triggered, I guess this means that I am being reminded of a trauma from the past and that is why the emotion is so strong.

    Ok, I can own that.

    I do feel similar feelings of being around girls in school and feeling not accepted for being me….like there is something wrong with me for being a sensitive, feeling person and for wanting to be respectful of the rules around a situation.

    And the feelings that come with being judged for being a dedicated student.

    It’s this feeling of not being included in the group because I dare to be different.

    And noticing that I don’t feel safe around some girls/women because of some perceived cattiness. And feeling more safe around men because they seem to be more direct, authentic, and honest.

    And I feel sad for my little girl who felt unincluded and unaccepted.

    Giving her hugs.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:13pm

  297. 297: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    Flowerchild77 re # 285,

    I feel a similar angst around the construction of the message. I’ve been mentally working my way through where the feeling comes from.

    For me, I have come to believe that the problem with “I feel [feeling] when [past tense action]” revolves around the “Implied You” that is used all the time in other ways. And it also has to do with passive voice… something I’m familiar with as a writer.

    I hear the implied you in my FM, and I can’t get away from the blaming. So, instead of saying it like this, “I feel embarrassed when … ” I have started working on saying “I feel embarrassment.”

    The difference is subtle, but for me, “embarrassed” necessarily implied “by someone or something” – and the man naturally assumes I’m talking about him.

    By saying “embarrassment” or “I feel judgment” – it’s so much easier to point to the situation as triggering my feelings, not a person.

    So far, I’ve had good results and I’m going to keep experimenting with it. I hope you find that helpful. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:16pm

  298. 298: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Going to nurture my little girl and work through this trigger of feeling unsafe just being me…being a sensitive, emotional, feeling creature.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:16pm

  299. 299: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    It feels to me like you need some …

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:19pm

  300. 300: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Also feeling sad because for a long time I thought being an emotional person was a weakness and then feeling relieved to find that it was part of my feminine magnetism and happy to find a place where feeling my feeling was encouraged and now feeling criticized again for it.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:20pm

  301. 301: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    I’m pondering a few other examples of my version of the FM that I’ve used lately….

    “I feel sad” instead of “I feel saddened (by you)”

    I don’t think I would ever say saddened, but it helps illustrate why just sad works so well. Just try and add “by you” to the end…it doesn’t fit.

    “I feel judgment” instead of “I feel judged (by you)”
    “I feel afraid” instead of “I feel scared (by you)”
    Or “I feel fear” works too.

    Interesting…I just noticed that all my examples are for when I’m experiencing negative emotions. I believe when I’m expressing positive emotions, I actually do use the -ed form of the feeling… so I’m giving him credit for my good feeling, and showing that he can make me happy:

    I feel inspired, amazed, awed, excited, absorbed, turned on…(by you)! :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:28pm

  302. 302: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Let’s have some fun. Have you figured out a Pity Party, I mean Peer Party for me yet? I feel curious if you seen my reply back to you about that?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:31pm

  303. 303: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Soooo….how do we know if we’re one of the people posting ‘wrong’ words and, apparently, inappropriate content?

    Usually I just skip over the posts where there is arguing and judging and direct or indirect blaming and shaming going back and forth, but sometimes it’s so ‘dressed up’ and I don’t realize what’s going on until I’ve read down the blog a bit.

    I’m starting to feel like I need to second-guess what I think/feel–which really throws a wrench in trying to learn to be authentic and work things out here. I need to learn to trust myself and my feelings.

    If I totally trusted my gut on all things I wouldn’t be here. I’m relatively new, so I don’t really know….makes me feel like maybe I’m not “sireny” enough to take part in discussions.

    My knee-jerk reaction was to ignore this–but the authentic me wanted to say I feel confused and a little bit ‘scolded,’ as I cannot possibly know as much as women who have been learning from Rori for a long time know.

    Feeling somewhat self-conscious… :-(

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:33pm

  304. 304: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @281: Boomer says:
    Consider: “We want you here.” “We” versus “you.”..”

    True, there is a “we” and also a “you.” I’m a “you” when the battle lines are drawn and I watch the “we” change uniforms according to the day of the week. It’s delightful though.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:35pm

  305. 305: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    LG – wow I feel super intrigued by your process with this thank you for sharing! i feel inspired to be brave and take some tiny babysteps for me in looking at that stuff i can relate with you on… the way i felt in school

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:36pm

  306. 306: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @282: Elizabeth says:
    “There are no terms of service published for this blog that I have seen…”

    What no TOS???!!! Why there must be, complete with mission statement and code of conduct… surely you jest….!!!!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:41pm

  307. 307: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    It feels so good to see you posting again. I love your humor. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:43pm

  308. 308: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    LG could I encourage you using Rori’s words “we ALL have work to with our perceptions, our thoughts, our attitudes that lead to our feelings”. It seems everyone’s is different. I don’t like to see you sad like this.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:44pm

  309. 309: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    watching battle lines does not feel delightful to daria

    reading that i feel bad bad bad and away and invisible

    i feel so powerless to change the world and the blog

    i so do miss it feeling like a wonderful place of support for emotions

    i feel so lonely here most of the time lately

    i long for that feeling of support and magic

    i feel angry at the people who don’t practice feeling messages

    feeling sad, super sad, like a puddle

    it feels like warmth an dheaviness in my tummy

    it feels comforting

    it feels like tightness around my mouth

    it feels like throwing up in my tummy

    am bent over

    leaning back i feel

    dizzy in my head like blood going down

    heavy cheecks

    down down down washing down with heavy

    i love my heavy cheecks

    kinda cool!

    i feel a spark of joy

    i feel choked

    sigh out

    i feel my tongue stuck to the bottomo of my mouth

    maybe the roof?

    tightness in my solar plexus. or haert

    tingling in elbows

    heavy eyelids

    bright feelig thoughts of other stuff and giggling

    kinda got “bored” with it hehe

    giggling now

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:46pm

  310. 310: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 303 You are not alone FlowerChild.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:46pm

  311. 311: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @302: Lilybelle says:
    “Let’s have some fun. Have you figured out a Pity Party, I mean Peer Party for me yet? I feel curious if you seen my reply back to you about that?”

    I’m sorry… started it but got busy and only peeking in at blog posts for a few minutes and reading them all out of order.

    Must leave now for a bit. I’ll put it up later tonight. Too bad about your Mr. Older Man. You probably got him all aroused looking at the peach fuzz on your neck. Perhaps he had a hard time (no pun intended) keeps his hands off!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:47pm

  312. 312: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    yay thank you everyone for showing up to be my therapist

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:47pm

  313. 313: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Am I missing something I see no battlelines. Or am I blind?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:47pm

  314. 314: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    typos… should be:

    Perhaps he had a hard time (no pun intended) keeping his hands off!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:49pm

  315. 315: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    felt when a man is about to “leave”



    really feel the loneliness then

    the longing to feel embraced

    to be made love to

    to ‘bond’ with a man

    thank you man for showing me

    how i feel

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:49pm

  316. 316: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 312 Daria I have not addressed anything therapeutic to you so I feel confused?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:51pm

  317. 317: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth re # 284,

    Thanks so much for your thoughtful feedback. This is an area that is deep and difficult for me. I have at times also had to distance myself from my family, but as I’m going through a 3rd divorce, it doesn’t get easier to deal with the “I told you so” body language and facial gestures.

    In some ways it gets harder actually… the NVs love to get that payoff.

    I feel a little overwhelmed by how much work there is to do… Usually I look back and see how far I’ve come, but in this area, I feel I go back beyond square one to some negative number because it’s cumulative with each divorce. Like some kind of compounded interest. lol

    I remember Rori saying there was no square 1 though. I will feel encouraged by that. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:52pm

  318. 318: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 281 Oh Boomer I am wondering what mood you are in today? Is that the way you really want to express what you are feeling? Or is that Warrior Goddess showing up now? You know I love every part of you. Can I invite you to share what is happening? If not please feel free to do so when you are ready.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:53pm

  319. 319: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t have much time to read or post this weekend. I just wanted to say to everyone to have a great weekend. My daughter will be with her dad so that means I get to enjoy some time with Poker Player. I haven’t seen him since Monday and last night it really hit me hard about how much I miss him. I feel super excited to see him this weekend!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:53pm

  320. 320: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Maybe he thought I was a baby.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:54pm

  321. 321: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    AGE wise, I mean.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:54pm

  322. 322: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 290 That sounds to me FlowerChild as “unsafe”.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:55pm

  323. 323: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    I read it exactly as you intended it.
    How about that.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:56pm

  324. 324: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Hi everyone, took me awhile to catch up! I’m sure I’ll miss a few things I wanted to comment on… but I had a lot to read!

    Mel, I think you are doing great, and the fact that you’re applying for jobs may wake him up…. that this isn’t a joke, he’d better be dang sure because you aren’t waiting around for him to figure it out. I was so afraid of a separation, didn’t want that to happen. I was embarrassed of what people would think, didn’t think my ex should need that time, or that he’d even want me back later. He did, but the crazy thing was, in 5 months, I had changed, stood up for myself, and thought more about my own happiness than his. Now, we both did more work, and if we’d tried to reconnect later down the road, we may have been more ready for it. Regardless, I think it’s a fabulous thing to focus on yourself, rather than be there to help him pay the bills. I do agree with FW about men needing respect, but it’s awfully hard to respect a man who is acting this way. So, respect yourself. I am SO proud of you!!!! :)

    Kaitlyn, I am so glad he called you…. I love that this is working out this way. I’m so excited to hear what happens next.

    Jilly, hotpilot’s concerns are valid, and it’s great he voiced them. BUT, if you envision a different future, being a stayhome mom because you value that, as I did… then it’s good to discuss those things. I flat out told my husband before we got married that I wanted to be a stay home mom when we had children. I waited to have them until it was a workable budget based on his salary, and I was blessed to be home for 7 years. The fact that it’s not living up to what you’d hoped it would be, is an important realization. The no orgasm thing… does he ever make you orgasm? Oral, etc? If not… that is selfish.

    SLV, nice to see you again! Everytime I clear off the passenger seat in my car, I think of you and sweetie… and I make room! :)

    LUCY!!!!! I want an Australian man! Yummy! Keep me posted!

    Boomer, I think we might be a lot alike. I relate to everything you write. The strong thing, isn’t bad. We have to be as single moms. It’s not a choice, and I think all mothers find inner strength… maybe some of us just voice it more than others. I’m sorry about boyscout, but so glad you realized it early and are sticking by your boundaries. You could have easily said, I’ll come to see you every other time, I’ll pay for dinner, etc. I think he’ll be back though!

    FW, I know your heart is always in the right place… all that matters.

    I don’t get the argument about intellectual conversation not having a place here… Rori wants us to be sirens, and they are damn smart! I haven’t seen any intellectual conversations here that made me feel uncomfortable or unsafe. There has been some cattiness that I think has no place, but that isn’t based on intelligence in my opinion.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 1:57pm

  325. 325: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    Oh Turquoise, Maybe it was YOU I was thinking desired an Australian man and not Lucy after all.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:00pm

  326. 326: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Yes Lilybelle.. I have said that when I mentioned my dream man…. Imagine Keith Urban with darker hair, slightly taller… SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok, so this is what I’m dealing with, and realizing I don’t trust myself enough to do this right yet. Mike2 has been great. Texts me sweet messages, wants to see me often, picked up my washer for me last night, ended up going to dinner with me and the girls last night. I told him I felt more scared about his health issue than his not having a job. He’s very stressed about that, and is looking, putting his pride aside to consider jobs at a third of his normal income…. so I’m not worried any longer than he doesn’t want to work.

    So, another guy, train engineer guy contacted me a few days ago. We had emailed on POF a few weeks ago… but never came of anything. I’m meeting him for dinner tonight. Mike asked me if I was busy tonight and I said yes. I had dinner plans. I didn’t elaborate, and he didn’t ask with who… but I don’t know what to say if he does. Things have gotten physical, we are bonding… I like him. I just know he’s in no position right now to persue a serious relationship with a future. I don’t think he’ll like it that I’m dating other people. SO what do I do? I like him, would really like to see where it would go… but this isn’t going to be a quick change in his life unless he finds a great job soon. He’s going to be struggling for awhile. Is it just bad timing? Do I keep my options open?

    HELP! I’m not good at circular dating when I like someone. I use it when they are letting me down. :(

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:10pm

  327. 327: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 324 Turquoise3 “! I haven’t seen any intellectual conversations here that made me feel uncomfortable or unsafe.” I agree and to think that some of the FMs sometimes feel like a brick landing in your chest makes the intellectual more acceptable.

    Your comment also reminds me of other coaches who talk about The 3 brains of Mr. Right, Intellectual
    attraction, even Rori I believe I have seen where she spoke about intellectual connection and taking into consideration that we are mind, body and spirit it seems like asking a person to forget a part of their being. I understand that FMs help us share our heart and spirit but being authentic sometimes means acknowledging that we feel intrigued and inspired by such discussions at time and can engage in a stimulating one.

    Though this is me, I feel better when I am told directly what is not a FM or maybe what I am saying is an intellectual discussion rather than being scolded.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:11pm

  328. 328: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    That should say I’m not good at circular dating when I’m happy with someone.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:12pm

  329. 329: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE326 Turquoise3 I have seen Carol Allen talk about timing being off.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:20pm

  330. 330: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    As well as circumstances working against you when you are in what she calls a Cycle of Saturn.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:23pm

  331. 331: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    LOL, LOL SLV I feel delighted to see you are back with your unique brand of insights, humor and links!
    You were really missed, you should’ve seen! (maybe you did!)


    @282: Elizabeth says:
    “There are no terms of service published for this blog that I have seen…”

    What no TOS???!!! Why there must be, complete with mission statement and code of conduct… surely you jest….!!!!


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:28pm

  332. 332: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:


    i like what you wrote but here’s what i ended up sending. i had to send it after our call last night like he asked.

    When Adam called last night, he said it was because I hadn’t answered his ‘tell me more.’

    I told him I was writing it as he called. He asked me to still send it even though he called. It’s something he’s always asked when that happens and he digs it.

    I sent:

    ‘It felt nice when you called Saturday. I feel shy right now, but I’ll open up the more we get to know each other. I’d like that. I always feel taken care of when you ask how I’m doing…shooting a lot for work and personal, learning vid, dreaming in 24p, still working out, and still reading like a fiend. And, yes, I melted when you called me.



    thats what i was writing whilst you rang. good night’

    But I haven’t heard from him at all today. He is usually very quick to respond on emails, and it’s 3 hrs ahead where he’s at.

    arrrrgghhhh what if i ruined everything by apologizing last night and when he asked if i was dating anyone, i told him the story about how i tried but cried in the parkg lot cuz i couldnt fathom being with anyone else. what if i didnt keep the convo light enough? what if he’s thinking why get too close to her if my stay in la will probably be short?

    all this siren tutelage i’ve had here and i screw up.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:31pm

  333. 333: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    316: Femininewoman says:

    RE 312 Daria I have not addressed anything therapeutic to you so I feel confused?

    Hi FW, I will let Daria speak for herself, but my interpretation of her comment is that she is (wisely) using all of our posts and interactions as therapy for herself, much like we do when CDing the men. I think that’s awesome.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:31pm

  334. 334: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 333 Makes sense. Thanks.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:33pm

  335. 335: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    kaitlyn – Your message was lovely. Give him a chance to process, and remember a man’s timetable does not at all resemble a woman’s.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:36pm

  336. 336: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    FW re #330, have you ordered a Saturn report?

    I did and my most recent cycle occurred while I was married to the man I’m divorcing now. We separated during the cycle but then reconciled. The report also highlighted a cycle when it was not good to have children… and I miscarried twice during that period of time. I conceived my daughter shortly after the end of it.

    I’ve also ordered the right man report, which was helpful, but not as clear as I expected.

    I don’t feel regret about getting the reports, but I’ve gained much insight just by learning about my vedic chart. The moon constellations fascinate me!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:36pm

  337. 337: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    FW#322 Yes…that’s a simple, more succinct way to say it. I’ve felt ‘unsafe’ for most of my years on this earth. Feeling safe and secure and able to relax into “now” is all relatively new to me.

    I’m working on not flinching at quick movements and trying not to be triggered by anger….trying to replace my conditioned reactions with authentic, thoughtful/confident responses. Anger usually makes me want to hide or ‘disappear’—or possibly “fix it” (over-functioning/people pleasing.) Both reactions are self-defeating.

    Yes, I have huge issues around feeling safe and feeling invisible. The things that kept me ‘safe’ in the past are also keeping me from intimacy.

    Lily T. and Xti (#’s 293, 297 and 301) Thank you for explaining this to me. The differences in forms of the words is so very subtle.

    I’m guessing that a decent, emotionally healthy man would ask, “Why?” or “Do you want to talk about it?”—and that the defensive guy who takes offense—before caring about how I feel or what I’m trying to say—-is just “giving me information” on whether I want any more dates with him. Am I on the right track?

    I’m not a nut-case—just trying to become a more authentic ‘me’ :-)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:38pm

  338. 338: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    yay 335 I can stop clawing my nails into my skin.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:40pm

  339. 339: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    305: Daria says:

    “LG – wow I feel super intrigued by your process with this thank you for sharing! i feel inspired to be brave and take some tiny babysteps for me in looking at that stuff i can relate with you on… the way i felt in school”

    yeah, I think everybody feels left out sometimes, you know? It’s part of the circle of life

    My suggestion, we all go watch that movie
    “Mean Girls” and come back and discuss. 😉


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:41pm

  340. 340: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Yes, Flowerchild, I’d definetly say you are on the right track. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:41pm

  341. 341: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 337 I believe it would do you good to explore those feelings FlowerChild. That sounds like you abandoning yourself rather than self soothing when the fear shows up. Hopefully someone can help you deal with it.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:45pm

  342. 342: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    326: Turquoise3 says:
    Yes Lilybelle.. I have said that when I mentioned my dream man…. Imagine Keith Urban with darker hair, slightly taller… SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Oh, be still my heart!!!!

    I wish him for you!!!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:46pm

  343. 343: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    Tourquoise, omfg this guy sounds like hotness.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:49pm

  344. 344: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I went to my daughter’s graduation earlier. They showed a video clip two of the girls made with pictures of them much younger. I felt emotional just looking them as babies and wondering where did the years go so fast I started crying. I was able to feel my heart, femininity and aaawww. Something I had shyed so much away from in the past.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:51pm

  345. 345: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    317 Xti

    “I remember Rori saying there was no square 1 though. I will feel encouraged by that. :)”

    Yes, absolutely, xti! That sounds very good. Start from where you are, now. We don’t have to dig ourselves out of some big hole we’ve shamed and blamed ourselves for putting ourselves in. That’s insanity, victim mentality. What’s past is past, and the way we learn and grow is by making mistakes! Mistakes are not a bad thing. Radical self-acceptance, that’s the key.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:53pm

  346. 346: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    OlderDude sent me an email this shortly after I got home last night, asking me what my “take” on the evening was..

    I replied indicating that I found him to be a kind man with a good sense of humor but that I didn’t feel we were a match.

    He replied back this afternoon saying.. “I feel the same way but wanted to know what you thought first.”

    Um, ok.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:53pm

  347. 347: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 339 Whip It was one Rori had suggested we watch. She wrote an article about it related to cattiness and how when it was expected it didn’t happen.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:53pm

  348. 348: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    oh the therapist thing is like CD when EVERYONE who shows up is our therapist

    they “trigger” old stuff to come up in us

    so whenever anyone shows up – the tool is to Thank Them for showing up so that I can heal this stuff!

    by going for my feelings UNDER my perceptions

    even if it really seems they attack me or say something mean, it TRIGGERS me therefore giving me a chance to process whatever my old stuff had me feeling… and sink into it and soothe it in the moment

    then i get bigger and more expansive and less triggered overall

    so thank you to EVERYONE and even everything!!!

    everyone is helping me heal yay!!

    love to all

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:54pm

  349. 349: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    346 Lilybelle,
    That struck me funny. What do you think his response would have been had you said you felt a connection?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:56pm

  350. 350: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    YAY FW I feel inspired hearing about your “aww”

    i feel blessed to have surrendered to honoring my feelings also

    who me? i thought i was so steel cold and inside was this golden gushy sunshine child all along

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:56pm

  351. 351: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 346 Lilybelle CCarter always says emotions are contagious. I have heard Rori I believe on Virginia Feingold Clarke interview say they can sense our intentions. Think if “we are one” spirit will talk to spirit no, or is that subliminal communication? I have heard a coach say set your intention and be clear on what you want.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:56pm

  352. 352: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Today??? FW, your daughter graduated today??

    #1 Guy has that affect on me at every turn. I cry at so many of the sweet things he does or how he sometimes likes to take care of me. He is the very, VERY best of who I am.

    When he was just a teeny baby, I found a card from a mother to her son talking about that time of his life when he is trying to spread his wings and untie the apron strings a bit. I bought and have had it in my mother’s journal all these years. It is fast approaching his 16th birthday, my heart breaks a bit more with the letting go as each week passes and it is almost time for him to receive that card. Then he can spread his wings a bit more and not worry that he has to take care of or please me.

    If there is one thing that I am most excellent at, it’s being his Mom.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:58pm

  353. 353: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 348 Thanks for that explanation. Thanks everyone for being my therapist.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 2:58pm

  354. 354: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    She graduated from Middle School.

    Re 352 Oh gosh that felt like a wide open heart. Thanks for sharing that. I feel like my heart connected to yours. I feel it all the way down in my midsection.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:01pm

  355. 355: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Lily T!

    That is the same EXACT thing that I thought and I chuckled out loud. I believe that is why he wanted to know what “I” felt first.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:01pm

  356. 356: ElizabethNo Gravatar says:

    “And, yes, I melted when you called me.”

    ahhh…they love, love, love the melting.
    The recent x showed me that, but it was so sad that it was difficult for him to immerse himself in the deeper intimacy of that… he’d notice himself losing himself and was like, “ok, ok, that’s enough.”

    Another wounded one. very wounded. sad. :-(


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:02pm

  357. 357: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Turquoise.

    This isn’t easy, but I’m taking it one day at a time. Yesterday I accidentally called him “sweetie” and it just felt terrible and bad because right now he’s NOT my sweetie and I have to accept that.

    I need to win the lottery so that I can go on an extended vacation (solo)!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:04pm

  358. 358: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #355 Lil,
    Yeah, I would have taken it as he was trying to save face. I mean, if he wasn’t interested in you, why email you for your opinion on the date? Smiling and shaking head.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:05pm

  359. 359: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    *sniff sniff*

    Nothing can move me to open my heart wider than him.

    Someday, when I feel completely safe here, I will share more about him and my heart surrounding our situation. This is where my deepest darkest hurt from having been judged comes from. This is the hardest thing for me to heal. I just keep stuffing this one. And it’s mostly me, judging ME.

    *I did and do the very best that I can.*

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:05pm

  360. 360: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 355 Remember we are emotional leaders. Most times guys don’t know what they are feeling. Remember it is one of the reasons they get defensive and run away when we bring up feelings? I believe he was a wise man for asking, and so early. He knows he cannot trust his feminine intuition and feelings

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:06pm

  361. 361: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lilybelle am I reading right, is it your son?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:07pm

  362. 362: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Congrats, FW on your daughter’s graduation from Middle School..

    So sweet.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:09pm

  363. 363: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 358 I am reading “fear of reject”. It is softer by email than face to face. Why would he put himself in a place to possibly show his vulnerability when he is rejected. I think it is not masculine.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:09pm

  364. 364: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, whenever I refer to #1 Guy, it is my son. 😉

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:09pm

  365. 365: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Lilybelly

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:10pm

  366. 366: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    I believe that if my answer would have been different to him, his would have mirrored mind.

    No matter though.

    Bring on the next one. and Lilybelle, TRUST the intentions that you set and TRUST your gut instincts. They are telling you something important when you feel that in your tummy.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:14pm

  367. 367: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    FW#344 Your post touched me. I have four grown children and know the feeling well (seeing how much they’ve grown brings a tear or two.) It’s a combination of sadness at missing them when they were small—and gratitude and feeling proud about who they’ve grown into. ((Hugs))

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:18pm

  368. 368: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mel I feel conflicted about the sweetie comment because you shared earlier that you wnat the marriage to work. My thinking is that tough times does not change him from being your sweetie if you love him. Even if he chooses another woman or to be single for him to feel happy I am wondering if that changes how I feel about someone. I seems like only being able to love them if they love me back.

    I am taking this as you being my therapist on this one and I am processing here and just wanted to share. Hope it doesn’t trigger you I have exes that I still feel are my sweetie though they are with someone else. I never got married to any though so I will not judge you. Just wanted to share my thought process..

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:19pm

  369. 369: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    I flattered A a lot last night. He liked it but I could tell his low self-esteem felt sometimes it was too much.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:19pm

  370. 370: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks FChild

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:20pm

  371. 371: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    so weird/ cool!

    im having the same “issue” come up with what LOOKS like 2 vastly different guys

    one super gangster guy

    and one super nerdy guy

    both of them want me to reassure them.

    gangster guy wants me to leave pof with him and only date him and also call him

    nerdy guy says he wants to be wanted and nurtured and get calls from a girl too


    and im like oh no!

    and it triggers my insecurities!

    and i thought i was super going out on a limb by dating nerdy guy… and i feel … not quite repulsed but very very platonic towards him

    while gangster guy is one *I* reached out to and was totally attractive to me


    and yet here they are showing to INDEED! as Rori says

    be the same “type” as far as emotional giving!


    and i’ve been sharing !

    woo hoo!!

    nerdy guy seems like he’s stepping up a bit. said well it’s a preference not a standard, so ok

    he seems soo analytical hehe aww

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:21pm

  372. 372: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    I also don’t like how he asks for details of what I’m doing these days with work, but doesn’t tell me his. I know what they are thru fb, so I didnt ask on the ph convo last niht as to not pry/lean forward. hmmm…

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:21pm

  373. 373: FlowerChild77No Gravatar says:

    Lilybelle#352…When my oldest son was born I read something that talked about how from the moment they’re born our children are growing *away* from us. At first it made me sad…but then I realized that it’s true and it’s what we really want anyway–to raise an independent person.

    I often look at pictures of them when they were small or find some piece of “art” they made at school and brought me as a gift….that love never goes away. No matter how old they are…those precious memories will always be yours. <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:30pm

  374. 374: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    what i feel when i think they might ‘walk away’

    is fear… that im gonna be alone AGAIN

    that i will always feel lonely

    i feel the loneliness really intense in that moment

    like a fear urgency desperation

    and a sadness hopelessness


    i love me

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:33pm

  375. 375: DENo Gravatar says:

    Laughing Goddess:

    I felt the same way…and I felt deeply inspired the way you expressed yourself :) Thank you for being u :)

    Warm hugs,

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:44pm

  376. 376: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:


    I was thinking
    You said once that you wished you knew what he reproaches you. You said all was fine during 10 years.
    But you also said he had trashed you among your common friends to the point you don’t dare talking to them again.
    I would use his trashing as the information I am seeking. The point would not be if he is being fair or not, but how he sees and feels me, so I can find the disconnect between my marriage and his marriage.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:44pm

  377. 377: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    ohhh i feel so proud of me!! i feel so happy with the steps i am taking!

    go Daria go!

    i am so brave!

    i am dating men so out of my comfort range!!

    go DARIA!!

    i will heal sooooo much!

    super EXPAND!! my comfort zone!!

    ohhhh so happy about it

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:47pm

  378. 378: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:



    Oh yes, FlowerChild..I know and it is how *we* have been raising him. I couldn’t be more proud of the young man he is becoming. It is thrilling to watch him and how he interacts and treats people. He is the way he is because of something that I had and have a direct hand in. It’s so cool.

    And still tugs on my heartstrings so hard.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:48pm

  379. 379: DENo Gravatar says:

    Wow… I felt deeply hurt by the recent dialogues pertaining to “intellectual conversations” vs “feeling expressions”…To me this a place for healing…like ‘Addicted to Pain Recovery Anonymous”…Being reminded how to get to the core of me…feels amazing and reassuring …

    Reading the few posts, as a defense mechanism, my initial reaction was “naturally” judgmental. So, I said to myself “look it son’ bitches”…what a perfect example of gossip…passive aggressive behavior…hiding behind polished words, caustic undertone, and of course, intellectualisation…

    But then, I stopped myself…what a great opportunity for me to work on my trigger…noticed…I felt angry…hurt, fearful…and that felt like being stubbed in my tummy, my heart bit raising to get off my chest…memories of work related “gossipy” women…who couldn’t get me for being a “foreign”…and “who the hell is she to tell us who do our work…I am an American for goodness sake…eyes rolling when I try to express myself…saying they couldn’t get my accent…etc.”

    I often look back at my accomplishments and diplomas…I am 38 and I feel like crying saying this…cause neither helped me create real happiness or joy in my life. Then, I felt compassion for myself…how many years I wasted…

    I felt tearful…and then, I tried to expand my own self-compassion towards much older women and try to place myself in their place…accepting a totally different approach to create deeper connections WITH and FOR themselves must be so much harder…due to their life experiences, the subconscious has stored so much more “themes” …”ego based beliefs”…”self-promises” that keep them stuck…:(

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:50pm

  380. 380: MelNo Gravatar says:

    It felt bad not because I don’t want him to be my sweetie, but that HE so obviously does not WANT to be my sweetie.

    In that moment I felt abandoned and rejected.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 3:59pm

  381. 381: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Okay sirens! Steve is being bumped up on the liver transplant list because of his cancer and he may be going in as soon as a month to get his new liver. Our agreement was that he was going to stay here with me during it so he can convalesce. Then we are supposed to make marriage plans when he’s better….SOOOOO, I am scared….I mean of the obligation first, then what’s down the road. I don’t know if he’ll ever be able to work again because he also is insulin diabetic. I’m scared for his life and to be frank, I’m scared for me too….It will take him a very long time to recover…..even if he does. I need your support and truthful thoughts on all of this. You’ve always been honest with me I know!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:11pm

  382. 382: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Whew…..deep breath out.

    How do I feel?

    I feel somewhat at peace.
    I feel touched by the kindness and authenticity I see in others.
    I feel compassion for my sensitive inner girl.
    I feel smiley saying that.

    The voices I am feeling triggered by remind me so much of the voice of my mother.

    I feel sadness when I think of that disconnect.

    Tears coming.

    When she was being strong and hard, I felt soooo disconnected from her and wrong for being me.

    My heart hurts so much just thinking about this.

    I don’t want to be hard. I want to feel safe being soft.

    Still working through this.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:13pm

  383. 383: MelNo Gravatar says:


    He trashes me among HIS friends (not common friends). Whenever we have any sort of disagreement, even if he’s got a huge role to play in it, he immediately starts texting and griping with his understanding (single) friends.

    I just feel like if he can blame me for everything and get his friends to agree with him, than he doesn’t have to take any responsibility for his actions.

    For example, a month ago we hosted his friends over at our place for a BBQ. He got SO drunk that he passed out on the couch for 2 hours and I was left to “entertain” his friends for the remainder of the evening. I’ve never felt so embarrassed. I didn’t handle the situation well after they left because I was SUPER angry, so it ended up being a big argument between us. Instantly, he’s on his cell phone texting his friends about how horrible I am. And of course they say, “oh, no problem, we didn’t care that you were drunk!” And so he feels this is all just dandy and I’m the unreasonable one.

    So… I don’t know how much I can learn from these exchanges. Basically he thinks I’m unreasonable.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:13pm

  384. 384: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    And feeling triggered remembering how many times people have mistaken my kindness for weakness.


    I feel so angry about that.

    I feel the urge to run away and hide, lock myself away from the world.

    And I know this is my stuff to work through. And I know not to take things personally. And I know I am in charge of my own happiness. And I know that sometimes people resist new information.

    And the bottom line for me is…don’t take things personally
    and for the most part I don’t yet I still feel sensitive to the voice of my “mother”.

    And I so wish she would have encouraged me to embrace my sirenness. And I so wish she would embrace her own sirenness.

    And I know I need to be patient and accepting of what is.

    And I am an adult now and I can honor myself. And it doesn’t matter if not everyone “gets” me. There are lots who do and I feel so appreciative of them.

    And the people that don’t….well I can’t change that. I can choose to take the high road and trust that the rest will work itself out.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:21pm

  385. 385: KSNo Gravatar says:

    I love to watch the process of you processing. 😉
    So beautiful. Keep going girl. Yay for you.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:29pm

  386. 386: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks DE. I feel deeply inspired by the way you expressed yourself as well. (((hugs)))

    I am the same age as you and sometimes I feel a generation gap with some women that I feel unsure of how to bridge.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:34pm

  387. 387: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    KS: Thanks love! I feel so happy to see you here. I’ve been missing you and wondering how you are doing.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:36pm

  388. 388: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:


    ***Instantly, he’s on his cell phone texting his friends about how horrible I am. And of course they say, “oh, no problem, we didn’t care that you were drunk!”  ***
    Did you read the texts he sent?


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:38pm

  389. 389: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Daria: Thanks for your acknowledgment. I’m trying to work through this by sticking to my feelings and taking responsibility for my triggers. You have helped so much through your example of doing that.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:38pm

  390. 390: MelNo Gravatar says:


    No, I didn’t read them, only saw him do it. He later told me about how his friends agreed with him that it was no big deal.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:40pm

  391. 391: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    I worry I’ll be alone forever as I have been because it’s tiring walking that thin, unsteady wire between ‘am i leaning back too much/am i leaning fwd too much’

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:48pm

  392. 392: MelNo Gravatar says:

    I understand what you are saying though LonePlum. He experiences me as unreasonable, or controlling because I had a problem with his behavior (that he had no problem with). That’s how he sees things.

    I guess I’m just not sure if I can ever be “OK” with some of his behaviors.

    I comes back to the fact that he can choose to do whatever he wants, but I don’t have to “hire him” to to treat me badly.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:48pm

  393. 393: DENo Gravatar says:

    Laughing Goddess #384:

    Wow…that was an amazing riff…and soo self-revealing…i am the opposite…

    People have mistaken my “strength” for being able to “handle” the “emotional abuse”…which in my case only made create a stronger protective shell for myself…when to the contrary…i feel so mushy and melty inside…if i could take upon me the cares of the world, i would do it gladly…

    Big warm hugs,

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 4:52pm

  394. 394: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Sirens! I haven’t been following along very much lately so trying to catch up.

    Mel, you are sounding great! I haven’t said much about your situation as I’ve never been married so didn’t feel I had much useful to say to help you. As others have said, it might be time to completely drop the “relationship ball”.
    Take yourself out to do fun things with friends. If you are usually the one that makes sure the grocery shopping is done and the dinner is cooked, then stop being the responsible one. Have a lovely soak in the tub and forget about all the household chores you “should” be doing.
    Like Rori has suggested somewhere (in one of her DVDs I think) turn your routine on its head and make it completely about you.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:32pm

  395. 395: kaitlynNo Gravatar says:

    why am i regrtting my convo with him…why am i crying

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:46pm

  396. 396: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:


    ***Instantly, he’s on his cell phone texting his friends about how horrible I am. And of course they say, “oh, no problem, we didn’t care that you were drunk!”  ***

    ***No, I didn’t read them, only saw him do it. He later told me about how his friends agreed with him that it was no big deal. ***

    You did not read the words « Mel is horrible »

    Here is a scenario I see as possible  and you will add the necessary changes to it so we can see clear :
    You told him it was embarrassing to see him passed out when his friends are home.
    I read that as meaning “I am embarrassed because I worry about what your friends thought of you and me when they saw you drunk.”
    He probably told you he doubts his friends think less of him because he passed out once.
    You insisted it was embarrassing (meaning to him you know for sure his friends think less of him for passing out).
    As a result, he probably simply asked his friends if they felt offended because he abandoned them and/or if they thought anything bad because he was drunk.
    They simply texted back that they did not think anything special about it.

    None of it was related to your quality as a person.

    He might have worried that you might be right, not because he does not want you to be right, but because if you were right, then that meant he offended his friends. From there, he checked if he really offended his friends, he was not trying to make you wrong, but rather to find out if he had some wrong to repair himself.

    This does not qualify as trashing.
    Would you remember another example of when you felt he was speaking wrong of you to others ?

    ***I comes back to the fact that he can choose to do whatever he wants, but I don’t have to “hire him” to to treat me badly. ***
    Of course you don’t.
    My point is you said you wish you knew what he reproaches you. And I thought you could see what he reproaches you through his trashing.
    That’s why I am asking if you remember what he said against you.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 5:51pm

  397. 397: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    Yes, Kaitlyn, why are you crying?

    Remember? You can’t say or do the wrong thing with the right man. Your conversation went well. Your subsequent email to him was good.

    I strongly suspect he is processing and that’s good but it doesn’t matter what he is doing. YOU didn’t do anything wrong. There is no wrong, only what is. Get your vibe back up there… (remember, energy travels).

    Go for a run, get your nails done, find me some new clothes, take your focus of what you perceive to have done and put it on the good that is you.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:05pm

  398. 398: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:


    Sorry to hear that Boy Scout turned out not to be one who was ready to tame you. But he certainly saw that you are worthy, he is just admitting that he is not up to the task so is stepping aside to make room for the guy who is. It still sucks though. (Hugs)

    I heard you when you said “And once again I had to hear about how “strong” I am. (It’s a sore spot for me, I admit. It’s the main word I hear applied to me.”

    I have that said to me a LOT and my nvs try to make it into a negative thing and tell me I’m not being feminine enough and that I don’t have a man because I am too strong and not vulnerable enough.

    I’m getting more accepting of my inner strength these days. I have a silly visual image of myself as an avocado which helps turn around the negative thoughts; swollen base, slightly dimpled skin with delicate, soft, creamy, flesh and a solid core.

    Its all true about me, feminine hips, a bit of cellulite, quite fatty flesh and a strong centre. Avocados have all these things and they are delicious!!!

    I also noticed what you said to Rosa
    @ 198 Boomer says:
    “Rosa, you wow me. Your voice here is so competent and kind and strong. I just wanted you to know that I admire your clarity and kindness. Your words always inspire me to do better and to be more thoughtful.”

    That is so true about Rosa and it seems to me that it is equally true about you Boomer.

    Yay for strong, self respecting women who are learning to reveal their softer feminine sides. Good strong and unique men are drawn to us.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:11pm

  399. 399: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 380 aaaww Mel. I believe he does not want himself. Even the drunk thing I can’t imagine how he might feel about himself around that.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:12pm

  400. 400: MelNo Gravatar says:

    I wasn’t embarrassed for him though. I was embarrassed for me. I was so angry at him for leaving me to entertain his friends at HIS BBQ. I felt really uncomfortable and false as I tried to pretend that this was all perfectly normal and not strange at all. So my point is that it doesn’t matter to me if his friends don’t mind if he passes out. I care. But he was only concerned with how his friends may have felt.

    As for what he says…

    I am a b*itch
    I am unreasonable
    I am crazy

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:19pm

  401. 401: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Re: 399 FW

    Yes, I can imagine that he feels pretty embarrassed for getting so drunk. But I’m only saying that because that’s how I would feel if it were me (but I can’t really know).

    It’s just easier for me to be the scapegoat though, and for him to be angry at me than it is for him to admit he was acting childish. This goes right back to Rori’s current post. He’s mad at me because he’s really mad at himself. I can see that this could be the case for a lot of what’s been going on.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:24pm

  402. 402: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:

    @ 400

    Mel, I haven’t read all your earlier posts, but I when hear people say those sort of abusive things about another person it is usually because of their own feelings of inadequacy. They are lashing out because they feel bad and they are lashing out at the person who cares about them because they want to hurt something so they don’t feel so hurt inside.
    It must feel horrible to hear those things, but you know this is not about you. xo

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:31pm

  403. 403: MelNo Gravatar says:


    I am a person that can take constructive criticism. I just don’t find trash talking constructive.

    During our conversation earlier this week when I put all of my cards out on the table, I asked him “Is there something that you feel you’re not getting from me?”

    He just said “I just want to do things that I perceive as “normal” and I get in trouble for it.

    He wouldn’t elaborate much more on which “normal” things he wanted to do.

    Porn? Dating sites? Going out with (girl) friends alone? Spending most of his free time with friends and not having to feel guilty about it?

    Sure, these are normal things. For a single guy.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:37pm

  404. 404: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 403 Mel you realize that is focussing on the things that hurt you. He could possbily be focussing on something else that hurts him, so he uses these things you hate to numb his pain. He seems to say he gets in trouble suggesting he might feel judged by you? What do you think?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:51pm

  405. 405: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 400 Mel I know this is a strong reaction and I take responsibility for it, but I hate how you personalize those descriptions.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:54pm

  406. 406: MelNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I admit I may be focused more on the negative things he does right now.

    He might feel judged by me. I’m feeling pretty judgmental regarding certain behaviors.

    The question is whet is the pain really about then? Hopefully this will come out in counseling.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 6:59pm

  407. 407: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 403 Mel I am not sure what it is but this question “Is there something that you feel you’re not getting from me?” smacks to me of a kind of I will give if I get. I am feeling fear around saying this because I know you are in pain and don’t need any criticism but Rori wrote an article about change your words, change your life and I am now wondering if that is what is happening. It does feel like giving back or sharing love. Sorry if I trigger you here.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:00pm

  408. 408: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mel are you judging yourself? is what came to me. Do you think you choose the wrong partner?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:02pm

  409. 409: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    These are things I would process internally for myself and make eternal peace with.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:03pm

  410. 410: MelNo Gravatar says:


    This was a phrase another coach suggested, actually.

    Interesting…. I didn’t say anything to him about what he wasn’t “giving” to me. It’s always interesting to see how others perceive things though.

    I mean… his needs are somehow not being met by me, no? Married men just don’t decide one day that they no longer want to be married, and start trolling on dating sites.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:08pm

  411. 411: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Elizabeth, thank you for your response. I wholeheartedly agree with focusing on getting everybody’s needs met. To me that is what Love is, and to me, Love is always the focus. And – I have learned that coming from a place of non-judgment – as much as possible as we grow and heal – allows the most Love to flow among us and ultimately meets everyone’s needs most fully and effectively. The way I see it, whenever we judge, we are blocking the meeting of our own deepest needs and those of others. <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:09pm

  412. 412: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Re: 408

    Yeah… I really am questioning whether or not I chose the right partner.

    But this is difficult because then what about all the other things that I thought were so sure in my life? How could it take me 10 years to figure out I chose poorly?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:11pm

  413. 413: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hugs Mel but I believe you did choose what you wanted back then and your choice was right. It felt right otherwise you would have felt the dissonance.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:22pm

  414. 414: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Mel, I think you are handling this very gracefully tonight. I’d be telling people to back off. If you haven’t walked in my shoes… why assume you know what’s going on????? This is triggering for me because I went through a very similar situation, and I had to deal with so many of the same issues you are.

    I believe it is possible to hate someone you also love.

    It’s possible to be so blinded by pain that you question all choices and decisions you’ve made. Of course you loved him, but he’s not treating you right.

    I called my ex honey the other day, during a normal conversation, completely out of nowhere… it was uncomfortable for me, I don’t think he even noticed. Some habits take a long time to break I guess.

    You have every right to feel what you are feeling. It’s normal and I think you are doing so well to be planning ahead.

    You are a nicer person than I am. I would either have dumped a bucket of water on his passed out ass or ended the party early. My ex’s mother came to visit once and he was too busy playing poker on the computer, she was giving me a really hard time, criticizing me for how he was behaving, the course of our marriage, etc. so I grabbed the keys and left. He called to make sure I was ok, but I was really ticked, needed some space and took it. I didn’t much care how either of them felt at that moment, I knew I needed space. You are doing an awesome job and I am so proud of you for thinking about yourself and what you need now! I love the suggestion to not worry about grocery shopping or cooking dinner. Any friends at work you can go to happy hour with after work? Let him miss you a little… see what life will be like without you. You may decide you don’t even want him anymore. That is what comes from being in the driver’s seat. You suddenly realize you can go anywhere, do anything… your life is in your hands!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 7:54pm

  415. 415: MelNo Gravatar says:

    “I’d be telling people to back off.”

    LOL. Meh. I can take it! :)

    I don’t mind being reflective and open to how others may perceive my thinking or words. And I don’t think anyone intended to be harsh.

    “I would either have dumped a bucket of water on his passed out ass or ended the party early.”

    Kinda glad to hear I’m not alone in thinking this was a really crappy thing to do to your wife.

    That’s what I wanted to do… instead I got him a pillow and a wash cloth and made excuses for him.

    Maybe that’s why I’m so angry about it. I’m angry at myself for treating him so nicely when I should have just hopped in the car and left his friends and his drunk ass to cope with it.

    Rori said something once about how if guys know they did something sh!tty and you still treat them nicely (by overfunctioning), they will disrespect you because they think “I don’t deserve to be treated this nicely. She must be really beneath me.”

    I do notice that after an argument… when he’s stewing and refuses to apologize or take any responsibility, he will often not want me to do anything for him. He wants to make his own dinner, laundry, etc. Makes sense now.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:20pm

  416. 416: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for your words Turquoise. I really do appreciate your support!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:21pm

  417. 417: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Mel, the main problem with your niceness to him in that situation was that it was incongruent with your authentic feelings. This distinction may help you see the difference btwn boundaries (loving of self/other) and judgment (unloving of self/other). You felt bad – honoring your boundaries would mean walking away from the situation, expressing your feelings, etc. No need to judge him; it just feels bad to You. Some women would genuinely feel fine with it, maybe laugh it off, have fun with his friends, get h

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:30pm

  418. 418: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    get him a pillow… Different people, different needs, different boundaries. It’s okay for you to want and need what you want. You don’t have to make it his “fault” if your wants and needs no longer match up. He has apparently changed. You don’t feel good and safe with him this way. It’s about your feelings, not his behavior. And if he doesn’t want to meet your needs, it’s his choice, and then you get to choose whether to stay or go. I was in a very similar situation too and i handled it poorly. You are do

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:34pm

  419. 419: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    You are doing so great! <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:35pm

  420. 420: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    398 Rivergirl. I love this. Especially the last paragraph. So true! <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:41pm

  421. 421: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    379 DE. Love it. Beautiful. <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:51pm

  422. 422: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Welp…. Train Engineer lives with his parents!!!! 40 years old, makes 80 grand…. and LIVES with his parents! He has a daughter, they help with her, but she’s 15!

    He came dressed in athletic wear. His profile says fit, he was about 50 pounds overweight. It said 5’10, maybe 5’8…. just not what I was expecting. But, nice conversation… a chance to practice.

    In other news, a girl I went to high school with, lost her 11 year old son today in a drowing accident at a local pool. He was there for a field trip. I cannot imagine the agony they are in. I worry about my dating life, but have two precious girls to love, who love me unconditionally. I wonder what my life would be like if I invested all the time and energy that currently goes to men/dating/online sites to myself and my family. If love is really meant to be, would it find me if I truly wasn’t looking for it?

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:54pm

  423. 423: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Mel, thanks :) I’m glad you can take it, my feathers get ruffled… and it’s not that I don’t appreciate other opinions and see value in them, it’s just when I’m already hurting… I couldn’t take it when someone defended him, or advised me to still treat him like I loved him. He got to look at porn, drink excessively, gamble our money away, and I got to think about why he might be acting that way, see it from his point of view… be understanding. In case I haven’t mentioned, I’m half mexican/spanish… not in my blood to be cool and reflective when I’m hurting!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 8:59pm

  424. 424: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    Mike2 invited me over to his house again tomorrow night. Thinking I may go. His parents won’t be there, at least in the beginning. Feels like a good way to get to know someone better by seeing where they live. They also have a heated pool and a hot tub…. it’s the 3rd time he’s asked. Live in the moment and go for it? Or sit here and worry that it’s too soon to meet his family? I think I’ll try living in the moment for awhile. He did meet my girls last night. Chloe (8) gave him a thumbs up, and Caitlyn said to me tonight, “if Mike is single… you should date him. He is really nice, and he seemed to like us. That’s important!”

    She’s 10… can’t argue with her logic :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:04pm

  425. 425: KaylaNo Gravatar says:

    Helpp!! ): “Pickup guy” and I were supposed to go to the movies tonight and I was with him and his friends all day today, things were going pretty smooth until we ended up meeting with some other girls. . . After we met up with them “pickup guy” wasn’t paying any attention to me at all, to me it felt like he was flirting with one of the other girls there, he was paying a lot of attention to her. And then he told me that if I didn’t feel comfortable that he would understand and he would take me home? Right then and there I felt like he wasn’t that into me at all, and I asked him if he still wanted to go to the movies and he said well what do you want to do? And I said well I want to go to the movies but you can take me home. So he said do you just want to go do something tomorrow? And I said yeah that’s fine. I tried not to act sad about it, but I’m pretty upset over it. And on top of that I have a feeling that tomorrow he isn’t going to even try to get ahold of me. Any suggestions on what I should do??

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:04pm

  426. 426: Turquoise3No Gravatar says:

    I need to learn to talk to men in feeling messages. I really struggle with that, beyond saying I feel excited, I feel tired, That would feel great….

    I sort of used one yesterday. Mike was talking about looking for a job, how frustrating it is, etc. and I told him I felt more concerned about his diabeties than his not having a job. It’s scary for me, and I felt worried.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 9:07pm

  427. 427: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    422 Turquoise. I believe the answer to your question at the end is Yes. I think I might be experiencing that very thing right now. I stopped looking, stopped trying, stopped dating. And I am so surprised by the things that are happening now… <3

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:15pm

  428. 428: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Boomer..I just love this “your voice here is so competent and STRONG ” ….right after you wrote about how you felt anxious that people keep seeing you as strong :)

    I so do get your anxiety . I am a “strong” person..I look strong on the outside . Because of my job people come to me for strength when theirs is all run out and I give advice and support and direction . I also look “strong” because of all the personal health shite I deal with .

    I look “strong” like most single mothers look strong , although i only have two teens !

    Meanwhile I have had weak men attracted to me for my strength and Boomer , Boy Scout feels similar from where I am reading.

    What i am looking for is a man who is strong enough to be my “soft place to fall”.

    I am learning how to show my vulnerability more WITHOUT dropping the balls . In the past I couldnt show my sadness or fear or pain to anyone because

    a. they would get very uncomfortable and avoid me (after all i was where THEY came with their stuff.)

    b.I would feel weakened and terrified I couldnt keep going. I was quite depressed and ill for years .

    c. I didnt know how to feel and express my feelings without scaring people away by lashing out in fear or frustration.

    SO I stuffed , and stuffed and stuffed (and I got cancer.)

    So I am now still learning and balancing and trying new ways of self expression. I am using the tools . I feel better.

    BUT I still dont know quite how to deal with this “strong” stuff. I feel scared that people dont see my needs , only their own. But I also am good at empowering other people and I just need to learn to empower ME in the same way.

    I think strength is visible on the outside .
    Empowerment is felt on the inside.

    With the CD’s now that i am seeing , Doc man sees me as an equal in strength , and I am working more on emotional vulnerability. Thats when i will really feel empowered.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:25pm

  429. 429: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    As to the FM construction re a mans irritability as observed in subtle exchanges…

    ” I see you waving your card around ..is everything ok ,are you ready to go? (observe ..ask for clarification)
    I do feel a little awkward and hurried after such a lovely meal . It would feel better to just relax a little longer .”

    This isnt right either.

    The issue is when an EMOTION is being observed in the other and verbally expressed , how is it best to deal with that?

    “I see you trying to get the waiters attention. You look a little irritated . Is everything all right because it doesnt feel good to me.”

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:32pm

  430. 430: RosaNo Gravatar says:


    “Having that FM conversation with BoyScout last night was a major milestone for me emotionally.

    For the first time with a man, I am not bemoaning what “I did wrong” to make yet another man leave me. ”

    This is MAGIC! This really is the magic of free therapy.
    Owning your feelings means you clearly feel and see when something is “off” without the ego getting in the way..I love it!

    I did it with first ever BF man when he reappeared a few months ago , then flaked back to his ex, i clearly expressed that I felt angry and vulnerable (he was sucking my “Strength” ) and very uncomfortable continuing any friendship. Basically he was pressing me for a relationship while still pursuing marriage with her and I told him i felt sick to learn this and I didnt want to be any mans spare tire .

    Instead of feeling sad and hopeless and second best (given I was recovering from cancer surgery etc it would have been easy) , I felt EMPOWERED .

    I am so happy you are getting this feeling too.
    It feels to me like having sat nav for my emotional life!!

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:44pm

  431. 431: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Lilybelle , Your date was so obviously going to “see where it went”. If you had said well it felt good with you he would have been asking for more dates. But as i understand it , it DIDNT feel good at all !

    I am so glad you felt that and didnt leave an opening.
    In the past i would have been “wishy washy” and ended up feeling “not good enough” when it didnt work out.
    Well done Lilybelle. Do you feel good about you?

    I have a 16 yr old son at home. He is gorgeous overall and I love cooking for him. I also drop goodies to my other son regularly – he is living on campus.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 10:58pm

  432. 432: XtiNo Gravatar says:

    I’m still processing FM construction tonight. It’s so important to me, and today was unusual in that I had the time to read the blog throughout the day, really for the first time.

    I went back to the e-book and reminded myself of something I have had in the back of my mind all day:

    “It is not your responsibility as the Feminine Energy partner to concern yourself with whether your man is happy when you express your feelings. It’s the Masculine Energy partner’s job to care about your feelings.”

    Oh that is so central to the concept.

    I see I’m still putting his feelings over mine. I feel concerned about how he might feel about what I say more than my own feeling.

    More practice yet. :)

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:10pm

  433. 433: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    From previous post,

    Turquoise3 – thank you. I felt good reading your post about Mike and how you feel it is ok to have guys over sometimes.

    Made me feel more relaxed.

    And SLV – Welcome back!!

    I have missed you. Feels great to have your voice back here. I always think of you as my blog sister who helped me get over having my tonsils removed and introduced me to Freecell! Lol.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:20pm

  434. 434: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok, I realise I felt a bit jealous seeing Rori’s posts to other Sirens on the last thread.

    I felt attention starved, like why doesn’t she notice me? Am I not a good enough Siren to have a comment?

    Trigger for my approval seeking tendancies in real life.

    Its ok I love me and it is fine that I want to be noticed and loved. And if someone doesn’t for their own reasons it is no reflection on me… and I can still love and appreciate myself.

    Hugs to me.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:23pm

  435. 435: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 430,

    I LOVE this.

    It is something I have been noticing too in my life, this shift away from letting a man’s actions influence my sense of self worth.

    If he has a problem it is his issue.

    CD-ing means I can express and move on without getting all screwed up just because he wasn’t able to step up or didn’t cut the mustard in some way.

    And it feels good. Even if I don’t get the desired outcome… And the best thing of all.

    None of it is about him, or his actions, it is about how I respond.

    And the more I respond in a way that is loving and respectful of me, the more my self esteem raises and the better I feel.

    Like with housemate dude.

    I can sincerely say I just don’t feel it for him anymore. And the things he does don’t bother me. He is just being him and doing what he does. And I can honestly say that at this time it simply isn’t right for me.

    And I don’t feel bad/angry or annoyed.

    And a lot of this has to do with not overfunctioning!

    Yay for us.


    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:29pm

  436. 436: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Xti !
    I am sure as Sirens we all need reminding of this …ours is not to look after THEIR feelings.

    Thanks for the reminder.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:33pm

  437. 437: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella …YAAAYYYY re HM dude.
    I just got a bad vibe there.
    I was concerned for you that low mood/self care may have led you into a difficult and painful scenario..

    BUT YOU TRIUMPHED by leaning back and getting to really see him as he is. Just like Rori says , you dont even want him :)

    I love how you work through these temptations of old patterning .You are getting very good at it and it feels lovely to read.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:37pm

  438. 438: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Ladies, I’m just catching up….and going way back to #4 Paula…
    You are brave and beautiful and do not EVER deserve for ANY man to talk to you that way…good for you that you are choosing to love YOU….and start to circular date. I felt sad reading the story in the beginning, but I feel happy for you how you are handling yourself.
    Much love and hugs…

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:40pm

  439. 439: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I let pub guy come home with me again last night.

    It feels ok. He is just my cuddles guy… that is what he does for me.

    He said he loves me last night.

    This feels very weird, this is a guy who is known for not expressing himself, at all!

    He said it a few times.

    I was feeling a lil weird about stuff bc I was looking at him, he was drunk, and I was thinking ‘is this really what I want?’

    And then I felt sad.

    Sad that I am 30 and am still dealing with this kind of thing. I feel disappointed in myself, that I am not a bit stronger and value myself that bit more.

    I expressed myself to a man last night that I feel needy. I wish I didn’t need a man.

    2 men wanted to step up and look after me and made me offers (bows and arrows I guess) and explained to me how I am worth more and if I choose this I am simply choosing something that is not going to fulfill me.

    It felt sweet that they did this for me and I could accept their love and appreciation of me.

    I realise I am feeling emotional about pub guy and I realise I need to withdraw.

    Because I am feeling angry.

    And if I am feeling angry I am overfunctioning.

    I feel tired and cross of hearing about how he is going to break up with his girlfriend and be with me.

    Words, words, words…

    Mean nothing really.

    I am angry bc I have been listening to his words and essentially fooling myself.

    A couple of things he said make me believe that actually he has no intention of breaking it off with his girlfriend.

    And to be fair, there is no incentive.

    I mean why would he.

    He has the best of both worlds. He has his g,friend for family gatherings and weekdays, and he has me for the pub and weekends.

    Very nice, very convenient, very easy.

    I guess I feel afraid here, of leaning back and then him not stepping up. I feel afraid.

    I would miss him.

    I don’t know why… not sure if he is a do-over of some kind??

    Today I told him I don’t want to so this anymore unless he is single…

    He played along bu I don’t think he believed me.
    Why would he. I have never withdrawn proerly before.

    I have withdrawn and CD-ed, and that has kept me sane, and sooner or later I have always ended up back in his arms… in the same situation.

    I think he feels that I feel emotionally connected/slightly bonded.

    Sh8t that feels scary!

    I just feel so tired if being strong sometimes. Walking away from these men time and time again (like housemate dude and my ex who did the drugs, and many more). Its just feels tiring, like I don’t want to have to be strong anymore.

    So what if I want someone to be there to walk me home and cuddle me.

    So what if I want a man to step up for me.

    I feel worried in case I don’t have the strengh to walk away and withdraw from this situation, this man.

    He said 2 weeks.

    Till he is single. It didn’t feel true.

    In another breath he said how he can’t just break it off after being with someone for a year and a half.

    He said he would get rid of her… and then he said ‘you knew I had a girlfriend).

    Btw I am not asking him to do anything, just expressing how I feel ini the moment.

    When I said I didn’t want to do this anymore unless he is single, and I said this was the last time, he said ‘ok, it is the last time’ whereas before it has always been promises of breaking up with her and being with me.

    To which I have made lots of objections, as I am not even sure he would be good for me.

    Last night I told him I don’t want a b,friend, I want a husband.

    Anyway the mirror for me here is we are both saying words and not meaning them. Me as much as him… saying I don’t want to be something on the side… and I am being.

    Please Universe let me find some strength here.

    To take my energy back out of this situation.

    To make some boundaries and to align my actions with my words.

    I want to trust myself and do what feels good for me.

    I feel hella scared of coming home from the pub on my own. And that he won’t follow me (in general I mean not home) and that he won’t step up.

    I can feel my heart aching a lil here.

    I feel longing and yet I don’t like the taste of these crumbs.

    He told me he loved me, and yet I wonder in some ways if he is just upping the anti to keep the situation how it is.

    If I am not careful this could become toxic for me. If everyone gets to complain and nothing changes.

    Guess I gotta for the work here.

    Nothing feels easy right now.

    And I feel so scared of this step.

    Why? Maybe it is fear of the unknown. Doing something different. Moving away from this familiar situation.

    Owww gosh, I want to do this.

    He said he loves me.

    I feel confused.

    I love me.

    He asked me to come to the pub later.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:55pm

  440. 440: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    argh, i feel frustrated with CDing right now. i seem to have a lot of FIRST dates which turn out to be the only dates….frustrated with myself because I feel so closed off sexually and with intimacy…i can carry on a nice convo…and use feeling messages, but there is a block…help…I dont like…

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:56pm

  441. 441: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 437,

    Yes, and now I am getting to practice again with pub guy.

    And this time it feels harder.

    Urghhh I feel frustrated. When will I be done with this lesson.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:58pm

  442. 442: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry Sirens for my very long and rambly post, just needed to blog!

    I feel embarressed about the length of my posts.

    Sometimes I feel afraid that Sirens will just see me as drama, as that is what it even feels like to me sometimes.

    Its ok Ella, I love your drama!

    I love you.

    Friday, 3 June 2011 @ 11:59pm

  443. 443: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Ella….I feel for you…I was in a VERY similar situation, except he was married.

    I did not know this when I first met him and got involved, but I got VERY attached to him, broke it off when I found out about the marriage, but he was techinically not living with her and separated, but STILL…I was devastated.

    Anyway I did the same thing…trying to break it off and CD etc etc….but would end up back with him. Now it’s been since March, I asked him not to contact me. he has not. But I miss him.

    I feel sad.
    I feel the need for a man to love me and care for me. I cannot always be independent strong woman!

    I know how hard it its. But it feels so crappy to feel like you are being used or lied to. I hate it.

    I feel more empowered CDing and loving myself…even if my CDs suck. Yick. but anywho….Ella,
    it’s a struggle girlfriend, you are not alone.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:04am

  444. 444: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    This post is relevant to me right now…

    I feel angry at him bc I am investing and giving to much with the expectation of him stepping up, which he isn’t.

    Do I lose the expectation?

    Yes, but also maybe veer towards ‘it feels good when single men take me on dates and focus on me’ not I will go home with pub guy bc of chemistry and not wanting to feel lonely /low.


    I have a date tonight with a CD.

    I feel very luke warm with him.

    But he is taking me out to dinner at one of my favourite restaurants and I feel excited about this.

    I feel afraid afterwards of getting that low feeling of disappointment because of the lack of chemistry I can feel with these CDs and them not being ‘the one!’

    But Ella remember, this is PRACTICE only. Nothing more… so it is ok.

    That disappointed feeling is tricky though bc that is the feeling that tends to send me off to the pub, and into the arms of pub guy.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:04am

  445. 445: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    442 I do not see you as drama and no need for apologies.
    You are expressing and venting. IT IS OK.
    much love and hugs…

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:05am

  446. 446: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    BTW I will call my guy MarriedGuy to remind myself that he’s still married. His divorce is in process but it’s taking forever, hence my reason for no longer speaking to him. We met in 2008.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:11am

  447. 447: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Have a date Sunday too. With Mr from the wedding reception who I blogged about last week.

    He is the one who has not much money.

    Well the good news is he got a job again now and then he contacted me to ask to take me out. And this time I just gracefully accepted!

    Thanks Sirens for working through this one with me.

    I feel glad I did not accept a hang out at my place in the end… maybe sometime in the future that may feel ok.

    I feel a lil bit more excited about this CD.

    Although not sure how I feel about him.

    Bu I remember feeling good in his presence. I think…

    I am gonna pay attention on Sunday and really see how I feel around him.

    He has been texting and FB messaging as no money to call me, and I wouldn’t call him.

    Also he has no car right now, as it is broken. So he is using his pushbike. He is coming to me on Sunday. I resisted the thought of ‘should I offer to pick him up?’ NO

    No Siren, men come to me honey.

    And it feels good doing this. Even though I feel a lil bad he has t cycle 15 miles, he he…

    Feels kinda good too.

    Like he has to overcome obstacles to get to me… te he.

    He can be my knight on pushbike! Lol.

    Owww, I feel afraid now in case he doesn’t come!!

    Housemate is going away next week so I will be in house on my own for a whole week!

    Ick, I feel afraid of feeling lonely.

    My plan is to spend lots of time at my mum’s, with my family, and arrnage some time with my friends.

    One other thing I have noticed, is that I start to feel ‘off the boil’ and lose attraction when I do not hear from a guy for a while.

    Like without regular face to face time the attraction tends to fizzle down some.

    Hmmm, I may express this.

    Text and FB messages tend to make me feel bored and less turned on.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:14am

  448. 448: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Last night I had a dream that a man of romantic interest/potential….?? (don’t know who?) pinched the back of my arm to get my attentinon in a playful way, and I FLIPPED out and told him DONT EVER touch me that way….it HURTS!!

    In my dream, it really made me mad.

    I woke up and was like what the heck? I’ve never been in a physically abusive relationship.

    Oh but I was pissed!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:14am

  449. 449: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Ella, I love your “long posts.” I was just thinking about it before you wrote that …When I start reading your posts it feels like, oh, here is Ella, she has sat down and flung her window wide open again to show us every little bit of her heart, where her heart is today and where it wants to go. I see you as this heroine with ringlets sitting at her writing desk putting pen to paper, journaling, and we are privvy to your voice-over as we watch you write your thoughts in this intimate scene thru open window

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:15am

  450. 450: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Hello Emerson,

    Thanks honni for your reply.

    I feel inspired by your strength! Well done for stepping away and taking care of you…

    I am going to think of you when I get to that choice point and need to walk away (physically) and go home… or not go to the pub, etc.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:16am

  451. 451: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel worried.

    Like am I really ready to do this?

    I want to, but do I?

    It would feel easier just to stay here, in this familiar situation.

    Hmmm, maybe eveything is not black and white… maybe sometimes I will choose new behaviours and sometimes I will still fall into old patterns.

    And that is ok.

    I guess I just would like to take good care of myself right here right now and know I need to withdraw as I can start to feel my emotions getting tied in.

    Yes so for now I want to choose to step back.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:19am

  452. 452: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Thanx Ella xoxo hugs…
    good night.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:20am

  453. 453: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Feel like I want to send him a message ‘telling’ himabout my boundary.

    But I already told him.

    Then I feel fear. Like what if he doesn’t know I want to be with him. I do but really have doubts it could ever work, and this is what I said.

    I am doubting myself, like why did I express those doubts.

    What is this Ella?

    Fear… I want to do something, anything but sit with my feelings.

    I want to distract myself with him and ‘tell’ him stuff to try to control the situation.

    That feels a lil toxic.

    I feel a bit screwed up.

    And breath Ella, it will be ok.

    You will see… sink down, Feel.

    Maybe you will be suprised!

    How do I feel?

    Slightly headachy, tired eyes and sore eyes.

    A lil afraid, anxious.

    A lil sad… feels like goodbye.

    I feel sad with goodby.

    Men r like rivers, men r like rivers… he will be back.

    Esp if he loves me, te he.

    But I can say no to crumbs.

    That will build my self esteem.

    Who knows maybe someday I won’t even want him. Like housemate guy… but I can’t imagine that right now.

    Might have a snooze.

    It is still early here. I woke up when he left for work but haven’t gotta get up yet!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:25am

  454. 454: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    There is and in my bed.

    I love his smell.

    That is weird… can it be he raises my oxytoxin?

    I am going pole dancing later.

    That can raise it too.

    Te he, and then a dinner date later.

    Yay. I love how I can also raise my oxytoxin!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:27am

  455. 455: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Emerson re 448,

    Hmmm interesting dream huh?

    Maybe it was not so much about physical abuse or hurt. Maybe it is anger at emotional pain?

    Just my initial thought reading about it and your situation with married guy.

    For me when there is anger, it is always because I have let someone overstep one of my boundaries, and really with me it is usually actually anger at myself.

    I mean he is just doing what he is doing.

    It is me who is choosing to be here.

    Maybe your dream is processing some of the feelings from overstepped boundary and I feel so good to hear about you being strong and holding your boundary now.

    Anyway that is just my take, could be totally wrong, lol.

    I love dreams and the tings they can tell us.

    I love the feel of so many of my dreams.

    Hugs. xoxox

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:33am

  456. 456: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Lucy… re 449.

    Aww thanks!

    I feel warm and melty.

    And I love that picture, esp the ringlets!

    :-) xoxox

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:35am

  457. 457: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    I may star my long posts with the sentence

    ‘Flinging open the wondow again!’


    Hugs to you.

    How are you doing these days?


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:37am

  458. 458: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella , I noticed you felt tired of “walking away” from these men with nothing to offer you .

    What i wondered is if you have started to feel your radar go off when you meet one of them , or when one takes you home? I wonder are you gettign warning feelings yet in your body that this guy is a dead end street , or that one is unavailable ..etc?

    My radar is going off for you so much , but its always easier to see in from the outside.

    From the outside to me , you look sad !
    I am wondering what you can do to fill up your life that does not involve the pub, alcohol, same old faces etc ?

    Are you online dating? I think it would be great for you to have lots of CD’s !

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:38am

  459. 459: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I just gave the GF speech online to long distance CD who I met once and who cant get organised in advance even when he is in town! He just wrote that he had a friend who got engaged to someone called Rose and he had confided to his friend he had hopes for this Rose (me) ..that felt needy and clingy to me .as he has called me twice and IMed me a dozen times in total.. I wanted to let him know clearly what i wanted and trhat i was CD’ing others .

    “Hope always feels good and I feel hopeful that the right partner will find me ! I am enjoying having some men friends and this has helped me a lot around all the surgery and recovery to go out and share some company without any pressure. I am not seeing any one seriously but it feels good to have friends .I am looking for a long term relationship with the man I will grow old with and that takes some
    time sorting out as I am finding .

    I want to feel comfortable with the right man. I dont want to be a casual “girl friend” ( which seems to be the relationship aim of many men I have met ) and am looking to build something more committed. Till then i feel good keeping my options open . What do you think?”

    It wasnt so good a speech , but i got through to him. He said “casual doesnt suit me at all” and now hes saying that I was the only one of interest on the whole website…ooops …I am feeling an unavailable warning going off..he’s 12 hours drive away.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:45am

  460. 460: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel jealous of ‘her’.

    His proper girlfriend.

    The one who does what she is told and who he says he doesn’t love, or even like very much.

    And yet he won’t break it off!

    It never felt real to me until last night. And last ngh it bothered me. And I feltr angry and sad.

    And I gave him some hassle (well I mean I expressed to him).

    Told him he can’t handle me anyway… cus if I express this usually he gets huffy and says ‘we have discussed this’ and ‘I am getting rid of her’.

    I pushed him last night.

    I asked him to listen to me while I expressed my anger and feelings about this.

    And he did.

    Didn’t help that other people were getting involved, telling me suff about him.

    Just makes me feel confused.

    I would rather trust my feelings and see what he does.

    Bc a man can be different with a different woman.

    And I truly believe this.

    But right now I am not feeling good about things.

    I don’t want to be his ‘other’ girlfriend or whatever (well I can’t anyway cus I am CD-ing).

    I feel confused.

    Why doesn’t he step up.

    He doesn’tt like seeing me with other guys and yet he hasn’t claimed me.

    That is his business.

    Maybe this situation needs some real space.

    Maybe he can'[t step up unless there is space to step in to.

    Maybe he never will.

    I feel sad/confused.

    It felt good hearing that he loves me.
    And it felt bad bc he still has her.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:50am

  461. 461: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    He just asked me ” can your decision waiti till July?”
    HUH? What decision???????

    I said ” I feel unsure what that decision is ? It feels fine to keep in contact for now , unless I get snapped up of course!”

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:53am

  462. 462: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Xti – you’re doing great! If you want to practice feeling message convos, like I’ll be the man and write to you here, I’m down to do that

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:55am

  463. 463: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry about the LIVE ACTION Sirens , i am feeling my way here with feeling messages.

    Its a very valuable practice run for face to face.

    OK – this is AMAZING ..from the mans perspective..he just wrote

    “OK. I’ll have to take that risk.It’s always a woman’s decision, I think. A male can put his case, but ultimately it’s the female that chooses. I can recall women talking about “not having a better offer” though, and I’ve never understood that. Most men seem to have a reputation of taking whatever’s on offer, but from what I know, most wait for the best available ”

    WOW I feel Sireny …

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:58am

  464. 464: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    No radar still not very reliable! Still don’t trust myself to make good choices with men… Yet! 😉

    My life is quite full… I love my pole dancing, Zumba and my work.

    I love my family and my friends.

    And yet somehow it still isn’t enough.

    There is still a big man shaped hole!

    Lol… but that is good, that there is space in my life for a man… just gotta do the making better choices.

    Have thought about online dating again and tbh the whole thing just feels tiresome. And Ick.

    I don’t really like it.

    Have toyed with the idea of joining EHarmony, and prob will in the future.

    But right now I have big financial issues and working, making money is my priority.

    The pub for me is a cheap and easy alternative to sitting in, or spending a lot of money going out.

    Still have issues with alcohol and I am getting better! Feel pleased and still slightly wary with this in case of setbacks.

    Last week at the wedding reception it just felt so good to be in a different place, with a whole new set of people.

    And last night at the pub I did feel bored, it is so true. And I realised it is no longer enough for me anymore.

    And on the other hand I do still like the pub and those people!

    So babysteps to a better, fuller life.

    Things r a little tough right now. I feel financially stressed and sad that I choose not to have a b’friend to support me while it is tough.

    But I am comitted to the RR way and to me.


    And in answer to your original question, no radar not quite so hot just yet.

    I do realise… but usually not straight away.

    and even when I do that is not always enough, cus I still feel majorly attracted.

    Toxic men.

    But there are also new and good men trickling tino my life too.

    And I am CD-ing, so should be ok.

    I am not sad as such… just feel sad sometimes, and that is maybe what you see here when I express about certain situations.

    Ow, I notice I am feeling ‘bristly’ now… and when I feel like that it usally means a Siren is onto something I don’t really want to face…

    Ok, I am going to sit with that.

    Love you Rosa.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:05am

  465. 465: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    I am still digesting that an actual man just made it clear that after one meeting he is going to press his “case” when he is in town in July , starting with dinner out . I truly wasnt that attracted when i did meet him that one time ,but I feel he is great CD material for me. He is 8 years older than me and I struggle with that AND he has younger children full time care ..and i dont feel good about that..but mostly its the geographiclas and the fact that i feel nervous that HE is jumping in to an imaginary relationship.

    I am also reminding myself of the excellent Siren advice from Xti..let HIM look after his own feelings., its not up to me to care for them . I just need to be honest about my agenda, and I just did that.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:26am

  466. 466: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Speech for Mr Pubguy, for next time he approaches me in the pub… (oh no, NV ‘he won’t approach you and you will never get to say what you want to say’ Shut up NV… SHUT UP!!!)

    And so what if I don’t get to say it… if he doesn’t come to me he isn’t a one for me!

    Why do I feel so much fear about him not approaching me? Maybe cus when I am at he pub I start to get that lonely feeling and then I go looking for him and stand near him…


    Ah, got it.

    And I know I should stay away and yet then I worry well the whole night will pass and he might not come and then I won’t get to have that feeling I get when I am with him.

    And yet when he is not there I can get involved in a game of pool, or chatting to someone and feel ok.

    I tried last night to get interested elsewhere, and yet the pull was too much. I tried to stay away and wait for him to come and find me and yet I didn’t, I went to stand near him!


    But then when I am near him he always looks at me, and then grabs me… talks to me… and last night the ‘I love you’.

    Urghhh, why does this have to feel so hard?

    Ok so how about babysteps.

    Try doing something different.

    And next time when I am there, just experiment with sitting and talking to someone else… and listening @ level 2.

    And here is my speech, more for myself and if I get to say it that will be a bonus!

    ‘Hey Mr Pubguy.

    I really like you and it doesn’t feel good to feel that way when I know you are with another woman.

    I feel really attracted to you and I am starting to feel my emotions becoming involved.

    It doesn’t feel safe to get involved in that way with you right now.

    So although it feels hard to me, I want to keep my distance and not hang out unless the situation changes’.

    Arghhh! I feel scared.

    Lol @ me.

    I love me and my scaredness!

    Do it Ella.

    Do it. You can do it.

    Love ya.

    Love ya more than him!!


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:26am

  467. 467: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    He is on FB… I wanna message him and do a version of my speech.

    Hmm, have feeling in my stomach that is not a good plan…

    Don’t know.

    I kinda want him to talk me out of it… Like ‘No Ella, you should not stay away bc I love you and I am gonna make this work’

    But he has said that.

    Why am I afraid to withdraw?

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:31am

  468. 468: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella – don’t do it! Wait for him to contact you!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:43am

  469. 469: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Did it…

    Said this by facebook:

    ‘I feel attracted to you and I am starting to feel emotionally involved now.

    This situation doesn’t feel good/safe for me to get emotionally involved atm.

    I want to stay away.

    And even that feels difficult sometimes.

    I don’t want to be the other woman.
    I feel silly for putting myself here.’

    Ok, that is it.

    I gotta stick to it now!

    Like with Mr housemate dude.

    Yes, I feel glad I said it… cus I have to stick to my word now… otherwise it means nothing.

    I am going to do it!

    Feel a mix of scared/anxious/excited.

    Woohoo for me.

    Going to make a cup of tea now.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:48am

  470. 470: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    Too late!


    Its ok though… I needed to say it.

    For me.

    Cus if I didn’t I could see this situation going on and on…

    And it is starting to do my head in.

    I wanted to be clear about what I was trying to say.

    Og f8ck… I probably f8cked everything up again.

    I just don’t want to be here. In this situation.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:53am

  471. 471: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Hmmm, I gotta love lil me doing all the wrong things as usual.

    Its ok though…

    I always is.

    Its said now…

    Now I just gotta withdraw. I can do this.

    Arhhh, I know I am feeling panicky… hence the reaching out… trying to do stuff.

    I reckon the pole dancing will help.

    Daria Do you think I f8cked it all up?

    Although really was there ne thing to f8ck up anyway?

    Feeling panicked. Don’t want to be told he loves me when he is not steppiing up!

    Oh I feel annoyed for contacting him..

    Grrrrrrrrrr! When will I learn.

    Prob never!

    But, I think I also gotta learn to be gentle with myself… cus one tiny slip up, or lean forward, with the righ man won’t make any difference.

    It is the overall vibe.

    Still feel annoyed with myself for being an impulsive Siren though.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:57am

  472. 472: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Daria that felt like a guardian angel watching over Ella. It felt good to me.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:07am

  473. 473: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella , WOW! I loved the speech .
    It was so full of self care.

    If you follow through (and i know you will ) and stay clear of him he will either step up or disappear.

    I expect he may not step up as he has already demonstrated his disloyalty to his GF, and that trait is part of him and that would be a good thing if you dont have to have anything to do with disloyal cheating men ! In my judgmental opinion :)

    I am SO impressed that you took this action knowing you are calling him on his behaviour and TAKING CARE OF YOU ! How are you feeling? Do you feel better now about you ? Some of that EMPOWERMENT I was waffling about earlier here?

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:16am

  474. 474: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Shame I did not read the post in time!


    Still, it is all just practice.

    Ok, what can I learn here?

    I know that I have a habit of reaching out/leaning forward and ‘doing’ something when I feel overwhelmed, triggered and overload of emotions.

    Hmm, its weird, but I still feel kinda ok about what I did… leaning forward.

    I wanted to say that.

    Want him to know.

    Don’t mind what happens next.

    You know what I feel good that I said it… for me.

    Not anything about him or the relationship, because otherwise I would have felt like I was ‘waiting’ to tell him something.

    And that feels too much righ now.

    I can see how this is a way of closing down intimacy.


    And yet, this way I feel clear now to re-focus and feel turn my energy elsewhere.

    Whether this feeling will change later in the day I don’t know…

    That is what has happened b4 when I have leant forward…

    I will watch and see.

    One thing here is I just wanted to express… I don’t want a specific outcome.

    And I want to put me first.

    Thats it.

    And I feel proud of that.


    I have not graduation Siren school yet and there is plenty to still work on… who knows maybe in a couple of years I will feel ok to sit with those type of feelings in this kind of situation, and not feel the need to reach out to a man…

    Or maybe, I won’t even be in this type of situation.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:16am

  475. 475: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Ella I have to ask the question whether you and pubman ever have sober day time interactions ?
    If not then you are healing a BIG part of you right now . I feel excited to read this stuff.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:18am

  476. 476: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 473,

    Thank you so much!

    I am smiling now.

    Yes I do feel good. Even though I leaned forward…

    Prob would have been better to wait till he contacted me but I really want to take care of myself.

    I love the speech too.

    And I will follow through.

    I feel kinda mixed.

    Good, scared, excited… and kinda good yes… like warm feeling inside.

    Worried if I think abou him disappearing.

    But proud of myself too.



    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:22am

  477. 477: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 415 Mel you are a brave woman and it seems to me learning and being your best self is what you are doing. I am the type of person who will respect how I feel but I will not allow anyone to do anything to influence my behavior and do what I normally would not do. I choose to just walk away. People will push buttons but I feel better at the end of the day when I maintain my feminine grace and dignity so that is where I am coming from. I dislike for instance the way he curses at you but what I have learnt from my daughter is “Is that the way you think of yourself, I would not talk about myself like that if I were you”. In any event just in case you decide this is not what you want I would like you to be able to build again with someone else. If it leaves you bitter and jaded that would be difficult. You still seem to want things to work out and what I have learnt is that focussing on the good memories and being able to really remember that is what works. If the good memories get changed in your mind it will be difficult to recommit to the marriage. I know I have been the type to hold on to the hurt and then be unable to move forward. For me looking back it is not worth it. It spilled over into other relationships and I was the one who paid dearly. I know this is a high stakes situation and only you really know for sure what you want and only the two of you can work things out but I as an outsider would like to see you give yourself a chance whatever that means for you. I believe Lucy sumarized it well for you above.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:25am

  478. 478: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rosa re 475,

    Yes but very few and far between.

    It is usually in the morning after drunk times the night before…

    When we have he has said he likes/loves me…

    Says he wants sober/weekday times with me too…

    Hmmm, maybe he does. We shall see. Personally I am not sure he has it in him to break it off with his g,friend.

    But the choice is his.

    I gotta go dancing now and will catch up again with you Sirens later.

    Have a great day/evening depending on where you live!


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:27am

  479. 479: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    “Most men seem to have a reputation of taking whatever’s on offer, but from what I know, most wait for the best available ”

    Lifted straight from CD’s message ..

    So this is what I have changed in the past 11 months. I have set myself up to be The Best Available , and not just “whats on offer” .
    Men are waiting for me .

    ..Thats a lovely thought..

    That is a huge thought revolution.
    Thank you Sirens.

    Ella I see you wresting with this one right now ..and I see you setting yourself up as “The Best Available”

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:29am

  480. 480: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Mel ,

    I read your comment about winning the lottery for a long break , but I agree with other Sirens , and Rori did this..took herself away for a weekend , unannounced . Can you do that at least? ..let him wonder and look after his own feelings..

    Can you visit a friend or family ?

    Just go and experiment with sailing solo?

    I think you are very centred and motivated with this . I am hoping the counseling sessions may help the communication on both sides become authentic and less blamey .

    I also feel very pleased to read your comments around boundaries re porn/other women etc..I hear you sorting out some clear boundaries about what does not feel ok.

    It feels sad to read your story but I also feel you stepping into your empowerment . This feels tingly and real to me.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:38am

  481. 481: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    Hi, Sirens, I’m a bit busy in real life recently, and have been deliberately staying away from the blog (once I start to read the threads, I can’t stop, and that consumes a lot of time). I’m glad you’re doing so well, even in those cases where things are not going into the direction that you would like. Impressive reflections and good work with the tools. You ladies are great! Love ya, virtually.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 3:05am

  482. 482: RosaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Lurks , I was missing you lately.
    We are all feeling very Sireny lately ,
    what do you think?

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 3:16am

  483. 483: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Lurker, glad to hear from you. Rori invited the guys to comment on what she wrote in the article. Would be great to get your take, if you have the time.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 3:21am

  484. 484: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #482 “We are all feeling very Sireny lately”
    Yeah, impressively so, Rosa!
    I sure have a biased view as a Siren fan, but I’m honestly in awe about how much you girls get ahead with your work on dating and relationship issues. Especially since I fell back into bad ole habits when dating recently (being too passive, not leading enough). I don’t want to go into details, but on the positive side I can say that at least nowadays I recognize the problems, thx to what I learned from reading the blog. And I’m working on the issues in order to become a better Sailor. Ahoy!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 3:29am

  485. 485: The LurkerNo Gravatar says:

    #483 Thx, Feminiewoman! Well, I don’t think I have much to add to Rori’s points. Indeed, bad feelings trigger aggression, which will vent in some way. And often those bad feelings are ultimately based on something that we guys themselves are repsonsible for. In my case, I often felt that my emotional needs where not met in a relationship and then I reacted in a passive aggressive way. But from the blog and other readings I learned that the girls probably became more distant because I was taking them for granted and wasn’t active enough anymore. In some way, I was aware that I “reaped” less because I didn’t “sow” as much anymore, but that was more like an unconscious awareness. So, I think, Rori is right, looking deeper into this, the aggression is the result of our own actions (or inactions). Seeing this in plain light sure helps to avoid falling into that trap.

    And, yes, it’s greatly appreciated if the woman gives a feedback about this. As Rusty and others have emphasized, too, ambivalent complains that leave us guys wondering what went wrong are one of the major annoyances in a relationship. We men often feel like we have to be mindreaders to understand the source of the aparent frustration of our girlfriend/wife. I guess men in general are less socially competent and are stronger on abstract llogic than on emotional intelligence. Male communication is more direct, we typically don’t say things in a sublte, roundabout way. Imho that’s why female hints will often go unnoticed or lead to misunderstandings.

    That’s where FMs can make a decisive difference, if they are phrased in a way that sends a clear message. Most guys will react positively on this and even feel a relief that the problem is exposed. Because once we know what we’re dealing with, we can find a way to fix it, in our typically masculine way. That makes us feel competent in our relationship and greatly reduces aggressions. So, yeah, hooray for FMs!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 4:04am

  486. 486: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    It’s all practice !

    Love you Ella!

    Can’t go wrong when the intent is to learn about self and heal

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 4:31am

  487. 487: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Oh yes, Rosa, I do feel good. Actually, better than good because I also learned that I CAN trust my instincts…I don’t have to do something for the sake of doing it, if it doesn’t feel good right away..for practice or any other reason.

    I just have to trust myself and what my “guts” tell me.

    Subtle lesson but well learned. :-)

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 4:35am

  488. 488: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:

    469: Ella

    WOW ! Ella : this is typically a message a la Rori.
    I felt empowered reading it.

    It was the only sireny message you could send him and you did, you sent it!
    I double Rosa’s comment to you :)

    Bravisimo for sending it :)


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 4:54am

  489. 489: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    I have been feeling less than goddess-y; siren-y; feminine; the last day or so…or maybe a week or so even.

    Yes, a week or so for sure. When I look at it…nope it’s been about three weeks.

    I have been in boy energy, really my boy has been taking care of things…working a lot, dealing with a lot of work stresses, functioning on a super high frequency at work due to the incredible demands of my customer base, preparing for my move and doing battle with the apartment managment company in letting me leave this apartment (My BOY WON THIS BATTLE YESTERDAY; I love how my boy is so smart and knows how to find the law to show that they were wrong and because there was no lease, I was only required by law to provide 30 days notice; case law was found, a firm two minute conversation in which my boy totally owned and wah lah, a letter received in the mail approving my move out) I have to tell you that I felt victorious. I knew I was right so I gave the boy the work to do and he handled it beautifully and we won. I did not worry about being taken to court, I didn’t worry about anything…

    So right now, it seems there is way more boy stuff to do and not enough time to do what makes me feel the best…pampering, cding (it surely does ebb and flow…I believe we are getting ready for an even better round of men…) finances are tight and even scheduling a mani/pedi isn’t in the budget until after the move.

    My mind spins constantly, so much to do, what am I going to do with all my belongings, how will I ever be prepared to move. But I also know me, I will have it done, beautifully organzied and it will be so easy…

    I am longing, yearning to feel goddess-y, feminine, vulnerable and open and because of all that my boy has to do to take care of everything, there doesn’t seem to be much time to transition back and forth.

    Even my showers and baths have been boy functioning because there hasn’t been enough time to enjoy.

    One month from now, I will be in my new apartment and then I will be back to moving forward and feeling goddess-y, siren-y and feminine.

    I actually thought that I had lost all the ground I had made in my journey toward Siren graduation and thought I had to start over…until I really thought about what was going on here.

    I feel happy that I don’t have to start over again.

    My Dad and Bonus Mom are coming for a visit late this afternoon, just to see ME. No sister, no anyone else, just me. I know they want to talk to me about everything that has happened and I feel open for an emotional conversation with them, where I will be able to express my feelings and provide my boundaries. We are going to Pier 1,(I am still desiring that chair and half the store from last weekends trip :-) ) and they are taking me out for dinner and Dad said that when he gets here, he will help me with whatever I need help with. That feels so good.

    It’s okay if my boy is taking care of things right now…he really does need to.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:13am

  490. 490: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    I feel frustrated with CS’s who do not step up and make a firm request to date. Who just continue to say things like “you are the kind of woman I am looking for, let’s get together soon” and then never step forward to doing so.

    I feel bored with continued back and forth communication and don’t want to do that.

    Can I say how I feel:

    I feel frustrated and I feel bored with this back and forth banter with nothing solid ever transpiring?

    I will not lean forward and ask a man out. Not in a million years. I won’t lean forward even a teeny bit and hint at it.

    I feel so bored with it. And if they were interested, they would take that step and do it.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:21am

  491. 491: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    490 LOL!! I’m amusing myself all alone here this morning with my typos.

    CS’S. LOL!

    CD’s. I feel bored with CD’s…

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:25am

  492. 492: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    It feels bad to run. To keep running is tiring. I feel tired. I dont want to appologise. I dont undestmate the power that this forum has. I thank FM for the experience. It was humbling to say the least and the time and energy spent by Rori and all was not wasted. I did feel like a Venus when I returned . Eight months being away with no computer I was anxious to be in contact with the sirens. That was what the “new ” comment refered to the technology on my laptop. I hate the word stupid so I say “new” . I do have a voice and what I have to say is valid just because Im saying it. It felt bad to have my core beliefs stomped on but then again thats the chance you take when you open your heart. I am me. I once had an english teacher out me in front of a class because my perception of a poem did not meet with her approval. I quit school that very day never to return That was at 16. I see things differently than other prople. I know that and I have to take the responsibility . I embrace my diversity. I believe without diversity there isnt perception, without perception there isnt compassion, without compassion there isnt love, without love there isnt life. My ego or desire to be better feels pushy and Im working very hard to manage it . I read on here for a while before returning. I didnt think changing my name at the time was a huge deal. I didnt recognise many that would even remember me. Deep inside I felt guilty and emailed Daria. A VERY well learnt lesson in stuffing feelings!!! I tend to keep things simple . I dont want complication. I do want to be heard. My beliefs are mine and whether anyone else agrees or not feels OK with me. I am now HAPPY to be Dawn. MY alter ego Venus is just that! I will keep her in my heart where she belongs , she is loving and supportive, really. LOL I feel proud of myself for returning and proud of all the sirens here for all the progress . support and love shared.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:28am

  493. 493: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:

    @ 491Lillybelle

    Circular sex? Frustrating? lol

    I hear you on the CD’s though. I’m bored too. I am ready for a step up guy! Anyone? Anyone?

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:37am

  494. 494: RiverGirlNo Gravatar says:


    Hey Dawn, I don’t think that you were around when I found this blog. I’m glad you feel safe to come back. It always feels good and supportive when you are on the same wavelength as others, but I believe there is more to be learnt when (on both sides) when there is discomfort and triggering. Get plenty of both here at times that’s for sure!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:45am

  495. 495: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    RiverGirl~ Now, THAT was funny.

    CS’s…. now that is an interesting concept. 😉

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:45am

  496. 496: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Rivergirl. Thanks so much! I spent many hours here previously . It feels good to be back . I been crying for 3 days and I know it had to be dealt with ! I am a work in progress like we all are and I love my faults and everyone elses!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:54am

  497. 497: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Yes Dawn, we are all works in progress; beautiful works in progress.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:02am

  498. 498: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    “To forgive is to set a prisoner free only to discover that the prisoner was you.” ~Lewis Smedes

    To affirm:

    Love heals me. I center my thoughts on love and forgiveness, for myself and others. ~ Louise Hay

    With love,


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:07am

  499. 499: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    “To forgive is to set a prisoner free only to discover that the prisoner was you.” ~Lewis Smedes

    Love that quote Lillybelle. So true. Thanks for sharing. :)

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:13am

  500. 500: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Yes, yes Lillybelle, I had to forgive myself . It feels good and weights lifted ! Yay for me !!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:14am

  501. 501: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Hi Dawn,

    I’ve often been frustrated by the ‘skirmishes’ that seem to happen on this blog daily. And I’ve quit reading off and on because of it. Lately though, I’ve come to the idea that those who are the most easily triggered may be the one’s with the most to heal. Sort of like the current topic heading with pronouns changed, “When she’s mad at you, is she just mad at herself?”

    Looking at it that way makes it easier not to take what someone else writes too personally.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:27am

  502. 502: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    I really believe we all have something to heal and are seeking growth and expansion or we wouldn’t be here. It doesn’t feel good to me to assume that one Siren needs more healing than another because of triggers.

    I believe it is specific and not an overall self healing but rather, different parts of self. And I believe, it is a two-way street, mirror~so to speak. The person who is triggered and the person who “set off” the trigger both have something to heal. As well as others who are reading and often, are privately triggered.

    I know for a fact, that I am highly triggered by my perception of judgements and am working pretty hard to heal that. I am getting close to spewing, letting it ALL out. :-) And when that happens, I will begin to heal. But I feel really afraid yet.

    499:Lily T~ When I read that, it felt like a 2×4 hit me in the side of my melon. I am also still working on healing and forgiving… It is a process and I love how this showed up on my FB wall this morning… Talk about receiving what is needed, when it is needed. Whew…

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:45am

  503. 503: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Loneplum re 488.

    Thank you!

    That means a lot to me.



    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:46am

  504. 504: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Lilly T , very true. I felt like I was being analized behind my backand that set me off ! Im glad for it . IM a better siren because of it. I felt ignored . THanks to all the recent support I no longer feel ignored!!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:46am

  505. 505: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Indeed, Dawn!

    Forgiveness is not easy, at least for me.

    I wonder if what I am really struggling with, is the letting go part of forgiveness???


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:47am

  506. 506: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    The universe directed me here to get the healing I needed ! Thankyou universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:49am

  507. 507: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T

    Re 501,

    For me the ‘skirmishes’ are what help us heal and grow the most.

    We get to practice dealing with difficult situations, differences of opinion and use FMs.

    Its a great tool and I feel appreciative of the differnt voices and appraoches here, and even the clashes.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:49am

  508. 508: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    I think you may be old enough to recall the old Don Henley song “Heart of the Matter”? It has always summed up how I view forgiveness very well and the quote you submitted reminded me of the song.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:52am

  509. 509: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    Love ya too! xx

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:52am

  510. 510: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Lillybelle, In my opinion Its the vulnerable feeling of forgiveness that makes us feel uncomfortable. I had to go to boy mode to gather my feelings. Once I realised where they were coming from my girly love came back. It was the love for myself that allowed me to forgive and let go.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:56am

  511. 511: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Kind of funny you mention that song, Lily. I have had it playing off and on in my head for several weeks ago.

    :-) Getting there, slowly but surely.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 6:57am

  512. 512: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Crap !! I meant to thank FW ! Thank you FW from the bottom of my heart! Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou !!!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:00am

  513. 513: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Hi Ella,

    I wanted to tell you I felt really good reading your message to “pubguy”. I think you did a great job there and whatever happens you ARE a super siren!


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:01am

  514. 514: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    In this particular case, (Has nothing to do with the Sirens but everything to do with my story of what brought me here in the first place) letting go to me is looking more and more like really, letting go and not having this person/persons in my life on a day to day basis. And, forgiving and releasing.

    Feels scary.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:02am

  515. 515: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    Huh? For several weeks ago?



    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:04am

  516. 516: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    How are you fellow Ella?

    Thank you for your reply to me a few days ago on a previosu thread… I have been so busy haven’t had a chacne to catch up on the blog properly.

    Above you said

    “attacking” (or a sense of urgency – that’s a great clue) – if I can just become aware of it and sink down into – I’ll start to feel more and discover what’s going on and go through it quickly.”

    (Or actually maybe that came from Rori’s original post)

    Either way I can so relate to that.

    The sense of urgency to do something… what is that about?

    If I can choose not to do anything and instead to ‘feel’ my way through it, it will probably stand me in very good stead.

    So many times I have done somehing whilst feeling that urgency and later come to regret it.

    However this mornings FM to Mr Pubguy is the exception. Phew!

    I still feel pleased I sent it!

    I may put something into place whereby I automatically give myself an hour (or however long till I feel calmer again) whenever I have that sense of urgency and panic…

    I order to reduce the amount of ‘panic’ actions…

    Hugs DE.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:04am

  517. 517: LonePlumNo Gravatar says:


    *** I was embarrassed for me. ***
    I understand that but I am trying to express why you don’t hear each other.
    You said you felt embarrassed; he assumed you were embarrassed because of the witnesses’ judgements. So he asked the witnesses what they think of his drunkenness. If they think nothing wrong, he assumes you have nothing to be embarrassed of. Since nobody is judging you or him, he does not get why you tell it was embarrassing.
    I am telling the possible disconnect during that fight. My intempt is never to defend anybody. You said you wished to understand the disconnection.

    I would not refer to judgements. My problem is what is going on between him and me.

    I would simply say “I don’t want alcohol in my life.You have the right to do what you want with your body and mind but I feel disconnected from acoholized minds and I will not stay around one. I understand accidents happen and you are not used to get drunk but I want to make clear I did not like it.”

    ***I was so angry at him for leaving me to entertain his friends at HIS BBQ ***
    I would make it clear it is about me and not about what his friends think.

    I would tell him “I was angry because I had no emotional interest in entertaining people that are not my friends. I felt used. I don’t want to be used to finish what you start with your own friends. (If that is what I felt, for example) Or/and I feel deceived you were not by my side to enjoy a BBQ we had planned together and to which I had been looking forwards. (If that was the case)”

    *** I felt really uncomfortable and false as I tried to pretend that this was all perfectly normal and not strange at all. ***

    I would feel uncomfortable too because I did not ask to be put in this situation. But you felt false because you were pretending. (We all have pretended at some stage before we understood what we really felt and wanted)
    For example being authentic could mean telling his friends “I feel uncomfortable because he is drunk and I don’t understand it, but it is happening, there is nothing I can do about it, your host went to sleep. He is not interested in speaking to his friends, he is asleep. So the party is over, you all may go home.”
    And after they are gone, you could go driving and let him wake up in the mess and the emptiness of the house. You are not responsible for his drinking and for his friends.

    *** I just don’t find trash talking constructive. ***
    Neither do I.
    I wonder if my intention was understood.
    You said he trashed you when he spoke to others.
    To me “trashing to others » meant he tells friends things that are untrue. I was hoping to break it down and find one of the original disconnect.
    Hence I asked for an example of gossips from him about you.
    You did not give any so I did not do it.

    *****During our conversation earlier this week when I put all of my cards out on the table, I asked him “Is there something that you feel you’re not getting from me?”
    He just said “I just want to do things that I perceive as “normal” and I get in trouble for it.
    He wouldn’t elaborate much more on which “normal” things he wanted to do.
    Porn? Dating sites? Going out with (girl) friends alone? Spending most of his free time with friends and not having to feel guilty about it?
    Sure, these are normal things. For a single guy.****

    I feel sorry to read this.
    I don’t think your marriage can survive without a written negociation that makes both happy.
    You negotiate how much of his free time he can spend away from you, the « alone time ». Plus you also write down how many hours will be « we » time as a couple and « us » time as a couple with others.
    Make sur both are happy with the negociation, none feels he has been trapped into accepting a number.

    Same with money. If one does not work the provider deposits money in the relationship account « us » and money in the partner’s account « her/him » and in his own account « I ». The amount has been negociated by both. None must be put in the position to ask for money.

    Negociate the space « living space » « private space » « maintenance » « chores ».
    Negociate the fun -sexual- and -non sexual- « I » , « we » as a couple and « us » as a couple with others.

    I would use my appointment with the counsellor to ask for help to negociate a new marriage, written on paper.

    This way you state your boundaries written on paper, you avoid judging his choices, you have seen he does not hear your judgements, it does not work. That avoids fighting. You stay in the marriage if the negociation has been written down or you walk away if you can’t accept his part of the negociation.

    I like your option of looking for a job close to your family. If you can’t negociate with him, your brand new life is ready. You will be fine no matter what.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:05am

  518. 518: DawnNo Gravatar says:

    Lillybelle, That feels good too!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:07am

  519. 519: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T,

    Thank you!


    I feel very pleased that Sirens are liking the message and super good standing up for myself.


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:08am

  520. 520: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Off to work. Have a wonderful, sireny day everyone. :)

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 7:09am

  521. 521: LobbyStarNo Gravatar says:

    439. Ella

    I related to this a lot, as I was involved with a married man for nearly four excruciating years. It was the same cycle over and over: he’d promise he was leaving, he didn’t leave, I’d end it with him, I’d date other men, and when it didn’t work out with them, I’d go back to him. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    It took me a very long time to get strong enough to stay away from him, but I am finally there. When my last guy and I split up, I was not even tempted to go back to him.

    443. Emerson wrote:

    “I cannot always be independent strong woman!”

    I read this and screamed YES YES YES!!! I get tired of being independent and strong! Please Universe, send me someone who will be strong FOR ME!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 8:52am

  522. 522: EllaNo Gravatar says:


    Thanks for the reply.

    Yes exactly.

    I am aiming to be strong on the inside… and I know I can’t expect a man to do my work for me… I know that I can not expect a man to take care of me if I am unwilling to take care of myself.

    However I am feeling excited and looking forward to the day when a man steps up and wants to make me happy, and be there to support me when I need it too!

    That will feel so good.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 9:26am

  523. 523: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:


    He is coming, Siren Ella.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 9:32am

  524. 524: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    “Lately though, I’ve come to the idea that those who are the most easily triggered may be the one’s with the most to heal.”

    Lily T, I get the impression that you are unfamiliar with Rori’s tools. There is a whole section in the old blog posts about triggering and riffing. If you familiarize yourself with the concepts then you might feel less triggered by them.

    I feel so much admiration for women who are willing to be vulnerable and honest about their feelings and triggers. I don’t think they have more to heal, I think they are being authentic.

    I wish you the best of luck learning what we are doing here. IMHO it is very powerful work. I feel excited to experience your authenticity some day.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 10:07am

  525. 525: DENo Gravatar says:

    Lily T:

    okay, i feel a bit afraid sharing this…

    We had our disagreements on a different thread…I expressed my frustrations and worked on my triggers…therefore, I absolutely let it go…the issue was gone for me…On the other side,…u listened…although, the energy I felt was passive aggressive….u continued to be polite and “content”…

    Yesterday, out of the blue, the “intellectual” issue was brought up again …and this time…the attack felt so much stronger and personal both from you and Elizabeth…I felt shocked…and hit under the belt…because in my mind…we sorted out our differences and therefore, the issue was done with…yet, to find out that was not the case…

    I wonder if u notice this is the same issue that comes up with men in our lives…Because we refuse to get “real” with ourselves, recognize, bring out our emotions…the subconscious, old patterns and beliefs run us…by boiling inside of us…and then, it hits like a hurricane/tornado…and no wonder men feel unsafe with us…

    I work on me trying my best to address deep issues within me, so that I can inspire trust in anyone…

    Right now, I feel very unsafe in your company and Elizabeth’s company for that matter.

    Thank you for listening.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 10:17am

  526. 526: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T:

    Here is an article about intentionally working with our triggers.


    Hope it helps!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 10:24am

  527. 527: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Here’s another one


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 10:40am

  528. 528: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 10:44am

  529. 529: BrendaNo Gravatar says:

    LonePlum and FlowerChild,

    Thank you for your kind comments, and for thinking of me! My update is on the newest thread. It’s been ruff.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:37pm

  530. 530: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Ella 445
    Thanks for your insight…yes you have some excellent points about the dream…I think it’s true. In my dream I was defining a boundary, but in real life in the past I failed to do so. I love dreams too! So interesting.

    Last night I dreamed that I saw MarriedGuy and patted him on the back nicely and said hey how are you…I was feeling all nicey-nice and compassionate.

    But I’m still not going to call him. Maybe I’m trying to forgive him for what I feel is letting me down. I fell strong at the moment and that I don’t need him.

    The problem is I seem to have lumped all males into the “I don’t need you” section….and I don’t watn to do that.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:45pm

  531. 531: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    SLV glad to see you back….hugs

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:45pm

  532. 532: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    527 528 Laughing goddess
    these are perfect timing reminders for me….thanks!!!!!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 12:48pm

  533. 533: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Emerson: I’m so glad that they helped! I had so much fun reading through old posts today!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:01pm

  534. 534: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Dawn! And giving voice to our alter-goddesses w new names is highly encouraged by Rori.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:38pm

  535. 535: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    I saw some talk on blog recently about “hanging out” etc etc Here’s a short little vid with some words on the subject.

    “Is this really a date?”


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:47pm

  536. 536: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @529: Brenda

    Hey Brenda. I just logged onto blog and started at the bottom… working my way up. 😉


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:50pm

  537. 537: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @531: Emerson

    Hey! :)


    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:51pm

  538. 538: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    Oh! Am I on the wrong thread again? 😥

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 1:53pm

  539. 539: OpalNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Sirens,

    I’m a longtime lurker here… I feel I know some of you! I feel I’ve learned a lot from you.

    I’ve been dating an older (I felt ok with the age) man for a few weeks. I became sexual with him (exclusive) and he has been nothing but loving. He has also offered a lot of support to me, and in many ways we have a good relationship. I knew him for about two years before we started dating.

    The problem is this: He told me a few weeks into our dating that he has a child. The child was born by IVF by a friend in another country who requested him to be the sperm donor. He had actually mentioned this to me over a year and a half ago (around the time the child was born), but we weren’t close then, and I forgot. He had felt hesitant about bringing it up again, but he did eventually. He’s older (early 50s) and felt it might be his only chance to have a child. He wants a relationship with the child (weekly phone calls and once a year trip to that country to visit). I support that, but I feel uncomfortable with the relationship with the mother. She would have liked him to marry her. They were not ever romantic. He told her they would not marry. He doesn’t want to tell her he is dating someone unless he is engaged, because he thinks it will hurt her feelings. What do you all think/feel about this?

    I feel a little uncomfortable with the fact that he is “hiding” that he is dating me from the mother of his child. He is afraid of how she might respond if she learns he is dating “seriously” and afraid she might withdraw access to his child. I feel uncomfortable with the energy around this. I’m not sure how I feel about this being part of my life.

    There is a lot I like about this man and I don’t want to walk away. I’m trying to sort my feelings around this situation and find my bounderies. I would would feel grateful to hear any thoughts/feelings/feedback others may have.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 2:48pm

  540. 540: DENo Gravatar says:

    SLV #535:

    Thank u for posting the link :) Awesome, I love it!

    Btw…I feel very happy to see you back :)

    Warm hugs,

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 4:16pm

  541. 541: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 539 Hi Opal, what jumped at me was the once a year trip. One cannot build a relationship that way so I imagine there might be an imaginary relationship there but he sounds like a man who could possibly be aware of how female jealousy can play out. I would believe him about his concerns about the child. I would look at his actions towards me here. If he incorporates you in his life with friends and family here it seems that would be normal. It seems they mutally did a favor for each other so there might be some feeling of obligation. Plus she is taking full responsibility for the child and as a responsible person he might be feeling grateful. That is just my impression from what you have written.

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:37pm

  542. 542: OpalNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Femininewoman,

    I feel appreciative of your response. And I’ve gained little more insight… you are probably right that he feels grateful towards her and not wanting to upset her. And maybe it is natural that he doesn’t want to speak about dating unless it’s a sure relationship… ie we’re engaged. And you are right – they did each other a favor. Although the child was her idea… he agreed and was glad to have a chance he might not otherwise.

    He does include me in his life. He has invited me to parties, out to dinner with other friends, etc. In part it was a shock when he told me as late as he did because he has been inclusive of me and very open about his life in other ways.

    I’m not sure exactly what you mean about imaginary relationship. I was upset when he told me about the trip. He will be gone for 5 weeks in August. He told me these plans were made before we started dating. that next year he would consult me… I felt this is going to be difficult in terms of building a relationship right now. I would have felt much more comfortable if the child lived in the same city. But this is how things are.

    I’m still sorting my feelings…

    I feel grateful for your feedback. Thank you!

    Saturday, 4 June 2011 @ 5:58pm

  543. 543: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Post #381, I want to act on my woman’s intuition with this…not mere emotion….I need to know what it is I should do and that I can trust my instincts….

    Sunday, 5 June 2011 @ 11:13am

  544. 544: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    Jeanette: I do believe that you can trust your instincts. What are they telling you?

    Sunday, 5 June 2011 @ 11:17am

  545. 545: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Laughing Goddess, my instincts are telling me to move slowly and set boundaries. So, this is what I think…..Steve desperately needs help. He told me his bro.s ex wife (who comes over a lot to see Steve’s bro.0 and Steve’s sister in law said they would come over and do shift work taking care of Rick AND Steve when Steve said he’s getting the transplant. Steve said, (only because we talked about this some time ago and his doctor wanted to know who would be there to support Steve) “Jeannette said I could go over and stay at her house when I recover.” Well…..if he does, I am going to set up a bed for him in another room, (his recovery room so to speak), and we’ll have to decide how long he’s staying. For now, that is what I mean by boundaries. Any thoughts any one? You’re welcome to express them……Thank you.

    Sunday, 5 June 2011 @ 1:57pm

  546. 546: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    #381 and #545….I haven’t heard from any of you. How do my boundaries sound? I’m still anxious and not sleeping well. I’m worried my kids will disapprove and worried that I’m just not up to it. If I am to do this I want peace of mind. I WANT TO KNOW that this is the right thing to do…..BOUNDARIES and yes my families approval. They are all a bunch of worriers just like me. Wisdom is what I need here….wisdom….should I care for him or should I tell his family they can. But I already told him I would!

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 4:01am

  547. 547: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    You are ENGAGED to Steve as I understand it. I think it’s high time you talk to him about how the two of you will handle his recovery and where. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I get the feeling both of you have avoided this discussion.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 4:18am

  548. 548: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    I just wanted to comment about how men get mad at you when THEY are the one that’s doing something wrong. Last year I found some VERY inappropriate texts on my man’s cell phone. I had never felt the need to check up on him but there was this nagging feeling in my gut. He used to always hold his phone VERY close to him, always wanted to see and go through my phone – but never allowed me to look at his. Anyway, he was sexting a woman from another state. I tried in several ways to confront him with it without starting a fight. In my family we stuff our emotions and especially anger down. I didn’t know about feeling messages at the time, and wish I had. Anyway, I did confront him in a “what do these texts mean?” kind of way. I was indirectly asking “are you cheating on me, or is this a diversion?” He got SO angry with me for looking at his phone behind his back, and because I didn’t just blindly trust him. After the fight he didn’t actually apologize for the texts, unless you want to call “I would never betray you” an apology. He wouldn’t explain. In fact, his words were “I don’t have to justify or explain myself to you or anyone else.” So to keep the relationship, I agreed to just trust that he would stop the inappropriate behavior, which was all I asked for to continue the relationship. About a week later he came home from a business trip and started a fight with me. He casually made a comment to a dinner guest that he was planning a trip to a location mentioned as a “meet up” between him and this woman in their texts. He knew I had read that, and so he watched my reaction very closely. Then he started the fight and abruptly broke things off with me by saying “I don’t trust you and you don’t trust me. I won’t live like that.” By this time I was pretty much over my anger, but not my hurt. We had never even talked about the texts or what they meant to him. So I just left without fighting further, and in my mind it was over for good. Of course a little more than a week later he wanted to “try again”, and he eventually told me more about the woman and why he was texting her inappropriately. Nothing he said really made much sense, but I didn’t question it. I later found out that he had spent a day with this woman while he was on a business trip helping her get a new job and a place to live in a new state. In retrospect, he must have felt terribly guilty – come home from the trip and started the fight with me. I don’t think he actually slept with her, but he obviously has (or had) some kind of feeling for her. Thanks to Rori, I have been able to express my feelings more boldly than ever before by using the feeling messages. He has been more willing to assure me the texting has stopped, and that he has broken communication with the woman. What I’ve learned is that when he gets mad at ME for something that I consider stupid, or trivial or even way off base… it’s time to look for the cause, because he’s PROBABLY doing something he knows will hurt me.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 6:36am

  549. 549: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Jeannette the way I see it seems like the engagement might be to secure help for Steve. That is him taking care of himself. If he fully recovers he might start wondering about why you are together if you do get married. Sorry if this comes across harsh. I would encourage you to do what Lily T says. Seems this is a tactic agreement because this is what he told his doctor. It also comes across a bit as him taking you for granted.

    You told him you could but you can change your mind. He has not moved any closer to building the relationship recently and you bringing him to care take will not change this. It might cause him to see you as a nice woman but not his wife necessarily. I would allow his family to do that. You taking care of him will not help him to see that he cannot live without you. You not there when he needs you the most might help him to realize that. You are already under a lot of pressure and it seems to me this will only add to it.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 7:13am

  550. 550: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 548 Thanks for sharing.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 7:16am

  551. 551: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Jeannette I just received this in an email entitled Are You A Caregiver I thought I would share with you.

    “Since we now live longer, many of us are caring for sick and aging family members. But who’s caring for the caregivers? Who’s meeting their needs? If you are a caregiver, here are a few things you must learn to do for yourself. First, ask for help. John Donne wrote, ‘No man is an island.’ Reaching for help may feel awkward at first, but keep doing it and you’ll develop a comfort level. Start by listing all the areas in which your loved one needs help. Be specific: household chores, transportation, personal finances, bathing, dressing, etc. When you get a ‘no’ don’t take it personally, just look elsewhere. There are people all around you who are just waiting to be asked, people who find joy and fulfilment in serving. Secondly, get connected. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Take advantage of the resources in your church, community programmes, support groups, senior citizen centres and the internet. Involve your family, as well as your friends and neighbours. Thirdly, remember that you’re human; God does! Don’t feel bad about feeling bad. Focusing on someone else’s needs to the exclusion of your own seems noble, but it also sets you up for guilt, anger, depression and burnout. Your emotions influence your physical health, so giving yourself permission to ‘feel your feelings’ not only enables you to stay healthy, but also ensures you’ll stay around to be a compassionate and able caregiver

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 8:26am

  552. 552: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Lily T. and Femininewoman, truly I have been realizing all along that I cannot do this alone. I also believe each situation is unique in and of itself. Steve is very special to me, in fact so much so that I don’t want to become resentful of him. I want to continue having a special union and really the only way that is possible is through being open and honest. Also, we have to be willing to serve ea. other as much as we can. Honesty and trust is the key I do believe, to trust that we will always be truthful in all matters. He has family that I know can help. The next question would be should he be allowed to convalesce here, with his family coming and going when I’m at work? Or should he stay elsewhere? I know it’s going to break his heart some if I tell him he needs to stay somewhere else. I want to be kind to both him and to myself. It’s something I have to ponder some more..I accept and appreciate all thoughts….

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 1:59pm

  553. 553: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    If his family is going to be taking care of both brothers, wouldn’t it be most practical for everyone if Steve stayed there with his brother?

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:05pm

  554. 554: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T., well it all depends on the timing. I don’t know the sequence of everything. I don’t know if Rick is going to die first or Steve is going to get his liver first. Steve is on a list, it could take up to 6 mos. and Rick’s doctor said he has up to 6 mos. to live…Is that crazy or what? If Rick goes first Steve will want someone to stay with. I know his preference is with me, at least for a couple of weeks. This is where I have to get firm as to what the boundaries will be. Whether his bro. goes first, what the boundaries will be if that is the case or what boundaries set if Steve is going to need somewhere to live, at least temporarily.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:16pm

  555. 555: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Okay, I understand about the timing. I’m perplexed though about your idea of boundaries – if you plan to marry, is there really a problem with Steve living with you while he recovers? How long have you been engaged?

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:23pm

  556. 556: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Well, he gave me his ring about 9 mo.s ago. But since then things have become pretty dramatic with the liver cancer and all. I explained in an earlier post that his health insurance is pretty bad and I can’t marry him right away because he’d lose what coverage he has. So that was a turning point. We’ve still talked of marriage but it’s pushed back for several reasons. Too he doesn’t have a job as I stated earlier too, he’s on limited disability and I would be putting out more than he would financially. He is getting a settlement soon but don’t know how much that will be. So much is up in the air.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:29pm

  557. 557: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I see. Do you feel it’s inappropriate for him to stay with you since the prospect of actually marrying is on hold?

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:33pm

  558. 558: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    I raised my kids in a religious home where you don’t live with ea other until you’re married. I mean I know the circumstances are different here but I don’t want to look like a hypocrite. When I was certain we were getting married some time ago, I thought it was no big deal to let him stay here, but now, as you said, everything is on hold. Just complicates things.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:36pm

  559. 559: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I understand.

    Do you know what you want Jeannette? What feels like the best thing for you? If you figure that out, then perhaps the words will be there to explain to Steve.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:40pm

  560. 560: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t know exactly what I want…I guess to care for someone and to be cared for…..I feel great compassion for him and even love, but I want to feel soooo very right about whatever decision I should come up with. Then I’ll be strong in my conviction.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:43pm

  561. 561: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Perhaps it would be best Steve stays with the person who will be caring for him while you work? More convenient given the circumstance?

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:46pm

  562. 562: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Well it is his sister and she has not volunteered to do that as of yet. She just said if it happens soon her and Steve’s sister in law can take turns going over and taking care of both guys. As in working in shifts…That is when he said, “Oh no that is okay, I will be staying with Jeannette.” Maybe if we all sat down together I could explain about being concerned that Steve might be alone here sometimes (although my 20 year old son stays with me,I know he won’t really help.) His sister will probably say something like, “Oh we can take turns coming over during the day while you’re at work.” I just don’t know about that one…I guess I’d find out real quick what I’m up to! I just don’t want my kids upset with me either..

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:54pm

  563. 563: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    It seems to me the person you need to talk to is Steve. It sounds like he may have made the assumption of staying with you without even discussing it with you. That wasn’t fair to you. Surely he knows your values, and with the marriage uncertain…

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 2:59pm

  564. 564: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    No, he didn’t make assumptions but when I went with him to see his doctor, she was really adamant about wanting to know he had support before they would even transplant him. It’s very very important to a liver team. So there I was and the rest is history. i just said I would be there for him. I had 2 doctors staring at me waiting for me to speak and tell them something so they could move forward. Steve also told him his sister would try and help.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 3:04pm

  565. 565: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Regardless of the doctor’s, that’s done, you need to decide if you want Steve recouperating in your home, or not. And you need to discuss it with him soon. Big girl pants time.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 3:14pm

  566. 566: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T. I know, thanks for listening….

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 4:09pm

  567. 567: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    I’m sorry I’m not of more help Jeannette. I guess I just feel that you and Steve talking about this together would be the best way to reach a conclusion and ease your mind. (((hugs)))

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 4:19pm

  568. 568: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Jeannette I remember you writing somewhere else that Steve pondered buying Rick’s house, so it seems he is not as destitute.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 5:56pm

  569. 569: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Femininewoman, Steve will have a little more money soon because of the law suit against a drug co. that he will be collecting on. Don’t know how much.

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 6:54pm

  570. 570: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Just a thought, could a visiting nurse come over for a few hours if he stays by your house?

    Monday, 6 June 2011 @ 6:57pm

  571. 571: DakiniNo Gravatar says:

    I’m a little late on reading this one cuz I was on an island dream vacation with the guy who’s currently driving me nutz. I tried to talk abt how I was feeling 1/2 way through the 4 day trip, at which point he freaked out, said he was going home (didn’t) and then spent the following 1.5 days oscilating between hardly speaking to me, saying mean things, or just talking totally normally about random topics of interest to him – and refusing to touch me AT ALL, literally. Until finally at the aiport on the way home he started holding my hand and being all snuggly for the 3 hour flight, as if nothing had happened. OMG – I feel like I NEED a vacation after that “vacation.” I know he’s seeing other people and would prefer for me not to know, but for heaven’s sake, if that’s what he’s upset about then he’s more upset than I am!! Help. I’m totally exhausted.

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 3:36pm

  572. 572: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Re: 571

    Dakini… You poor thing. Did you use feeling messages? Why do you think he freaked out? What was your reaction to his freakout? Tell us how the conversation went so we can help.

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 4:53pm

  573. 573: BrendaNo Gravatar says:




    Love, Brenda

    Thursday, 9 June 2011 @ 12:43pm

  574. 574: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Rori, I’m so devastated at the breakup of my nearly 2yr relationship. As of March 2011, we decided we were ready to commit & become engaged! I was so excited & thought he was too. He even chose to ask my 7yr-old son if he’d like it if he married Mommy. My son adores him & was just as excited as me! I’m mid 40’s, and he’s 11 yrs older & very successful (he’s a CFO). We met at church after he finally approached me after watching me he claims for more than a year. He travels extensively internationally but that’s never bothered me as he was doing so when I met him. We were always in communication until I made a tacky mistake of asking him, when he was India, if he thought it possible to actually get an engagement ring around my birthday. I also said that I understood if it weren’t possible (and I meant that). From that moment, he’s convinced himself that my motives in this relationship have been purely selfish. That stunned me because I’ve always done things for him (paying for dinner or movies sometimes, recognizing if he needed something for his condo, buying clothes I thought he’d look nice in, cleaning his condo when he was away, etc). Before this situation, I’d repeatedly told him that I do for him because I love him and didn’t want him to feel it was one-sided. He’s choosing to not focus on any of the things I’ve done. Now, he won’t talk to me except via email occasionally. He said that I added all of this pressure to the pressures of his job and that I don’t really care about all of the components that are him (he’s also a writer, very civic-minded & volunteers for at least two non-profits, on-top of his demanding job). All of those things are parts of my attraction to him. I’m so devastated about this, as I love him very much (he’s EXTREMELY smart (MIT grad/undergrad), and funny and was also very caring both to my son and myself). I can’t move on. I don’t know how, and if I’m being honest I don’t want to move on. He’s a very reclusive person. I don’t have many friends where I live, so that was more time for us to spend together. I read your article about “Toxic Men” and I “think” he has qualities that stem from something that he’s never shared with me. He’s been divorced for over 20 years and hasn’t dated much. He’s an overweight gentleman and I think many women didn’t give him a chance as a result, but 5mins of conversation and you are attracted to his humor and quick wit and personality! Around the same time we decided to get married, he opened “slightly” to say that he wasn’t use to women doing for him, but ultimately he learned they were using him for what they could get. My response to that was, “that’s why I try and do things for you. I want you to know how much I love and appreciate you!” Do I accept this or just do nothing at the moment (besides cry excessively when my son isn’t home)?

    Friday, 10 June 2011 @ 7:37pm

  575. 575: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea I believe that is his fear. He is successful and seems to be a
    fraid of being used. He must also believe that you must be too hot for him. I sense that you bringing up the ring thing might have suggested to him that you are only interested in him for marriage. Maybe if you say things to suggest that even if he was poor and living in a…………………….. you would still care for him because you are attracted to him not what he has. I understand his fear of being used. Unfortunately some guys past girlfriends have taught them that they want the guy to cater to all their needs and wants regardless of how the guy feel about that. I have had guys tell me they resented the feeling of obligation they eventually developed in their relationships.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 6:05am

  576. 576: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea I don’t believe it is over. He just needs to feel safe with you. Respect what decision he has made is what I would do and let him know you are there when he is ready to open up. Then share your vulnerability, how much you are hurting and devastated with the state of things. If possible also share your dreams for the relationship. Look at how things were to see if there is anything you could change to get the response you want. When things are high stakes we tend to obsess and make mistakes.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 6:09am

  577. 577: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning FeminineWoman. You are very insightful and I thank you for the kind words, support and assessment of the situation. I found it amazing that you referenced him having fear because he too used that term earlier this week! I’ve shared. On many occasion that it didn’t matter where we lived or what type of ring, as long as we were together. I really didn’t know he felt pressures from work or from me as he’s never expressed and showed signs at all. He’s always seemed to manage work well and is constantly receiving raves remarks from the CEO about his performance. We had both talked about rings and now houses in the past (both initiated by him) so I wAs blown back that it set him off this time. I’ve always been very honest with him and shared my true feelings with him. I pray you are correct that its not over and will take your advice. He mentioned that he would not be in town for my birthday, which I found strange since he wasn’t talking to me anyway. Though I would have loved it, at this point I wasn’t expecting him to be with me on my birthday in our current state. One email he’s softened and the next he’s hardened again. I just don’t understand. I love this forum and perspective from women!

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:10am

  578. 578: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    The raves from the CEO won’t necessarily turn off his own critic of himself. Please also remember that Rori says feelings morph, they change. Stay with your own emotions and allow him to go through his. He has to be able to be himself with you also. It might have been a past memory that you triggered. Remember Rori teaches you have to be the tour guide of you and he is the one to manage the relationship. What I have found is that when I don’t bring up anything that is when the guy tends to bring it up. Bring your vibe and thoughts back to yourself he might be feeling pressure. Maybe you are not intentionally bringing it to him, but he feels it. Use the message to your benefit to focus on your life, your happiness and staying on your bridge as Rori puts it. He already knows you want the commitment, no need to remind him is how I operate. One mention and they seem to sense we are desperate.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:24am

  579. 579: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Don’t try to understand his reaction or figure out what he is thinking. Just be with your feelings and ask yourself, as Rori teaches, why am I hear.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:25am

  580. 580: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry. Why am I here?

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:25am

  581. 581: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Yesterday was the first day I learned of Rori Raye as I did an internet search for Women’s support. So other than the article I read about “Toxic Men” (which I thoroughly found profound) I’ve no experience with Rori’s teachings. I will certainly be spending down time reading as much as possible. Do you recommend I not communicating with him at all until he’s ready (if ever)?

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:48am

  582. 582: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Rori teaches about being an invitation. You respond when warmly, openly with softness when he comes toward you and in feeling messages. Look to the bottom right of the blog you will see a lot of information in different categories. I would highly recommend you buy her eBook and she has recently come out with LoveScripts that I believe would be helpful for you. In the meantime spend as much time as you can reading around the blog, that helped me immensely when I first came here.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:54am

  583. 583: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea check this out

    It is a recent production and I intend to get it

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 7:55am

  584. 584: AnnNo Gravatar says:

    I wonder if this is what is going on with my (nonromantic) male friend.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 11:21am

  585. 585: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    @FeminineWoman. I’m so very thankful for your words and helpfulness. I am about to look at the link you just sent. On my question about of me not reaching out to him until he decides to reach out to me, do you think that’s what I should do? I’ve been sending an email a couple of days a week to remind him that I love him and miss.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 11:36am

  586. 586: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    @Ann. I pray that you are not experiencing the same hurt and devastation that I am.

    Saturday, 11 June 2011 @ 12:52pm

  587. 587: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Ladies. Sunday’s are still very tough days for me. We met at church and besides the obvious reasons for church to be special, it too held sentimental reasons for me. For nearly two years, part of our bonding was our worshipping together on Sunday mornings. It still hurts me very much and the tears come the moment I’m alone (like now). We attend a pretty big church so he could be there and I not know it. I’m in such a pit of despair this morning.

    Sunday, 12 June 2011 @ 11:39am

  588. 588: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Response to 581: Hi Andrea – I’m in a similar position as you. My man was burned badly in a divorce and he is a high level executive. The difference is that I actually work in the same company with my man. As a result I get to see on a day-to-day basis just how stressful his job really is.

    I can tell you that when we have relationship issues he has very low tolerance for pressure from me. I’ve learned to talk to him in feeling messages… which he had said to me on many occassions in the 4 years we’ve been together that my lack of telling him how I feel is a problem for him. I’m getting great results. We even broke up at one point when I found inappropriate texts on his cell phone (see entry 548), and that’s when I knew I had to do something. I found Rori and it’s made a huge difference.

    When we broke up I stopped ALL contact with him (went thru Rori’s Toxic Men, Fix your Relationship and E-book program – I now have Love Scripts). Even when I saw him at the office I didn’t look at him. But the few times I did have to speak I was very professional and smiled. I’m sure he picked up that I was happy with me. I lost some weight, and really started making sure my hair and makeup were well done. Stopped obsessing over him and our relationship troubles. Talk about HARD TO DO! Yes, it was hard, but Rori’s teachings WORK! He found his way back to me, and when he did I gave him the “sunset guy” speech. Amazing things started happening after that. I can’t say that I have the committment I want yet, but he knows how I feel and if he’s not my sunset guy… someone else will be.

    Work on yourself and you’ll be surprised how even from the farthest distance he can/will feel it. Don’t email him anymore. Just STOP it. He will wonder why you’ve stopped. And that’s when he will miss you.

    When we got back together I set aside my desire to share a home with my man (to me that is as committed as I can be). I could do this because I’m firmly committed to looking for my sunset guy – and I’ll have that when I find him. I started ciruclar dating (in my mind more than actually going out with other men). In my mind I’m still looking and will be until I either get the commitment I want from my man, or meet the one who is willing to give it to me. And I have STOPPED my over-functioning and I have stopped leaning forward. I don’t do much of anything now except tell him how I feel (melt when he gives me a good response), really – and I am sooo pleased with the response.

    If this guy loves you at all, he won’t want to lose you. Especially if you show him that you’re not like the other women who only want him for his money. I know with my man, when I didn’t contact him it gave him time to miss me… and he really focused on the good things about our relationship that he wanted to keep in his life.

    Key message here: Stop emailing him.

    Let us know what happens!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 9:02am

  589. 589: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 585 Andrea I definitely would stop doing that. Only he knows how he feels and what you are doing won’t convince him to feel otherwise.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 9:08am

  590. 590: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    @Anastia & Femininewoman. I feel convicted now because I put encouragement cards in the mail for both his office here in Cali & in London, and can’t do anything about them now. I cry as I type this message because I know you both are right. I’ve always shared with him that I loved him and tried to do things to let him know that it was never about his money. I will replay these messages in my head when I want to grab my Blackberry and send him a quick message like I’ve done for nearly two years. I will certainly need your continued support and prayers ladies!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 9:35am

  591. 591: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    You have mine Andrea. I imagine he will miss those messages though and might come looking for you. Take care of yourself in the meantime so you can communicate the right message when he does come back.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 9:46am

  592. 592: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Femininewoman. I will certainly continue to fill myself with the wonderful encouragement that I’ve received from this site. I haven’t had time to read the link you sent me, but will be reading it and am pretty sure that I will be ordering LoveScripts but will probably have to wait until my son and I come back from vacation. The three of us were supposed to go to the Bahamas, but of course he’s no longer going. By God’s grace I was determined to still take my 7yr-old (1st week of July). He’s very excited about this trip and he’s also very sad that he’s not seen my guy. I told him that he’s traveling so much and hasn’t had time to return to Los Angeles. His dad is active in his life, but he very much loves this guy also (and he too has often told him that)!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 9:58am

  593. 593: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Response to 590: Andrea-Don’t worry about the cards. Just let them be the last contact he gets from you directly. It’s sad that he’s not going on the trip with you, but don’t focus on that. I had the same thing happen to me. We were supposed to take a “family vacation” with his kids and mine to Hawaii, but after our “disaster” it didn’t happen. Go and have a great time on your trip. Focus on yourself and YOUR happiness.

    One thing I did was to start noticing other men. It’s part of Rori’s Circular Dating tool. I just notice them and sometimes I talk to them. I attend a photography club meeting and it was kind of weird. I was sitting there getting ready for the presentation when all of the sudden a man at my table said something to me. I would have never noticed before, but he was a nice looking guy and very conversational – and he obviously shared my passion for photography. Suddenly I started looking around the room and I was like OMG!!! Look at all of these MEN!!!! Even though I’m still with my man, I am continuing to “notice” and speak to men – not with the intent of sleeping with any of them, but more to keep my vibe up.

    Andrea, do something for yourself. Get a mani/pedi or splurge and get a facial or a massage (or as in my case I have emmersed myself into Rori’s programs, got on an exercise program, lost some weight, visted the makeup shop and gotten into making myself look/feel younger with a new skin care regiment, new makeup and better hair, developing my photography skills, attending lectures and films at the historical society, etc.). I’ve started doing a LOT of things that I wanted to before, and didn’t take the time for because I was so focused on my relationship issues. And believe me (and Rori) your guy will notice after he’s had some time to miss you – and especially when he sees you again.

    I believe that we can affect other people’s energy just by the thoughts that we have towards them. I used to daydream about me and my man being together in the way I want. I now feel like me putting that energy out there might have scared him somehow and created his resistance. Now that I’m putting that energy towards myself I just know that he’s feeling it, and it’s making me more attractive than I was before. In fact, I FEEL more attractive. Before, I think I was giving off a “needy” vibe.

    Rori’s programs are the icing on the cake. I’m learning how to TALK to my man. This is something my mother didn’t even know how to do, so it feels very “cutting edge”. Even my 24 year old daughter, who is internet dating, is using these tools with great success. She said she feels almost like she has an unfair advantage because Rori’s magic formula is one men can’t resist – literally. We are having the most fun talking about how the guys she’s dating react to her “feeling messages”. She bought the Love Scripts for daters.

    There’s no mistaking the energy change a woman gets when she starts pleasuring herself (so to speak). He will pick up on it. Keep that in mind.

    P.S. Rori’s e-book isn’t that expensive. Buy that, print it out and read it on the beach while on your trip. You will have more than one “ah-ha” moment – and you’ll return home stronger than ever.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 12:42pm

  594. 594: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea… P.S. When I was trying to avoid contacting my man… I literally deleted him from my cell phone. That made it easier because I don’t know his phone # by heart.

    Just a suggestion!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 12:46pm

  595. 595: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    Anastasia have given you some sound advice. Also don’t be critical of your son for expressing himself about that guy. It might be something he misses also when he stops hearing from and being with you. I second Andrea, enjoy your vacation. There are many examples from women on this site who have turned their attention and energies onto themselves and the guys came back. Get some of Rori’s products you will not regret it.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 12:50pm

  596. 596: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I have deleted numbers, turned my phone off and believe it or not the guy called the house when he couldn’t get through. It feels great when they reach out to reconnect.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 12:52pm

  597. 597: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    I am continually SURPRISED by the new things my man is saying and doing. He’s truly opening up more and literally, when he says “I feel…” to me, I know it’s working. Rori is an ANGEL!!

    He never used to tell me how HE feels… now he is and it’s WONDERFUL!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 1:02pm

  598. 598: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve always been one for regular exercise, weekly trips to the salon, medi/pedi, waxing and facials! I do love myself, I’m just very sad these days. The cards will be the last communication he receives from me. I’m taking an online certification course at Villanova and between it and my son (and work), I’ve enough to stay busy but I fimd even my dreams and 5min intervals of downtime are consumed with thoughts of him and us. I’m not critical of my son, I just change the subject when he brings up his name. Its been 6-8wks And I’m SO not ready to look at or even entertain another man’s conversational (sorry).

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 1:09pm

  599. 599: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – I feel you on not being able to entertain conversations with other men. I know I was only able to do it because of my initial anger at my man’s inappropriate texts to that other woman, and then after going thru Rori’s program I DID start thinking – is this really the man I want? I mean, he’s not giving me what I want, etc. etc.

    Fortunately I did realize that he IS the man for me, and that’s why I’ve really tried to follow through with trying to understand why HE isn’t choosing ME. I know he loves me. He has told me many times that he wants us to retire together, but he just never could (or would) move forward and give me the ONE THING I’ve ever asked for (to share a home and a life). His most repeated statement is that he “never wants to get married again”.

    There has to be something about this man that has aggrivated you. Something that you’ve tolerated from him. No man is perfect.

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 3:10pm

  600. 600: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    @Anastia. He’s definitely far from perfect but the little things were non-issues to me. What aggravates me is how he shuts down and shuts me out. He’s very much a recluse so he doesn’t have that one good buddy or group of friends that he speaks with or hangs out with. When he’s not doing CFO work, he’s also a published author and volunteers at a couple of non-profits (he was raised to believe in giving back in service). His shutting out the world bothers me!

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 4:10pm

  601. 601: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I really haven’t been angry except when my mind started running rampant and thinking that perhaps there was someone else; otherwise how could he turn away so quickly and not even look back at me. I REALLY don’t think that he’s that kind of guy but my mind started making me crazy. How do you love someone like we did and just walk off as if you’ve never met me?

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 8:42pm

  602. 602: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – That particular question will drive you crazy if you let it. Who knows what men think when they walk away so easily?

    I know that my man loves me, but after our breakup I really had to look at WHY he wasn’t giving me the committment that I wanted. The truth is, he just wasn’t deeply and emotionally attached to me. That’s a hard truth to accept, because like you I DID so many things to try to show him that I loved him… like clean his house when he was gone, kept up his laundry with nicely folded tshirts and a well organized closet, and sex WHENEVER he wanted it – no questions asked. He liked those things that I was doing, but he didn’t hold me in the highest regard. I now know I was doing what Rori calls “over-functioning”. We never had deep conversations about our feelings (about anything!) We always had awesome sex, romantic weekends, but never deep level emotional conversations.

    There were warning signs that I couldn’t see. He is a very “private” person, but when a man doesn’t share the basics with the woman he’s regularly sleeping with (and having stay at his house) – there’s something wrong!

    My man kept making excuses (for 4 years) for not taking me home to meet his family and friends (and he still hasn’t). We have never spent Christmas together even though he knew it upset me. To compensate and throw this dog a bone he started staying in town and spending Thanksgiving with me, but he still went home to visit family without me. I later learned from one of his kids that his mother doesn’t even know I exist!! Yes. There’s something wrong in this relationship when he’s that closed off to me.

    Rori taught me to STOP the over-functioning. The result is amazing. I show him I love him now by telling him how I feel rather than DOING things for him. Our relationship is more balanced now (I don’t give more than I get) and because I’ve learned to talk to him (tell him how I feel rather than what I think) he’s started opening up to me… almost like magic. We have a long way to go, but I’m honestly seeing results much faster than I thought I ever could.

    One thing I’ve learned with my high level executive lover is that he’s VERY devoted to his accomplishments. His personal Priority List always read: #1 Job, #2 Kids, #3 His Family… #4 or last…ME. I was always at the bottom until I started telling him my feelings and letting him solve the issues. I believe that for him my role was to provide sex (and that was why he never let me go). I know now that I was inept at providing deep intimate emotional connection. That’s changing.

    Could this be similar to what you’re experiencing with your man? I would have never looked at myself like I have without Rori’s help. It’s amazing what I discovered – how much I was doing wrong and how EASY it’s been to change my behavior to draw him into a deeper connection with me.

    Tuesday, 14 June 2011 @ 7:05am

  603. 603: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Anastia,
    I’ve been pretty busy with work this morning and that’s a great distraction for me! I definitely think work has been “E’s” girlfriend and hiding place for years. I think when things are uncomfortable or challenging he can easily retreat to what he know’s he’s successful at, which is his career or the organizations he volunteers for, or his writing.

    I’ve not yet met his family (his parents are deceased) but I’ve met one son and communicated with the other. He’s originally from the East Coast and we live on the West Coast (I’m originally from the South). He’s spoken to his family about me and have told them that “she’s the one and you’ve gotta meet her soon.” He actually flew my mom and sister out here for Thanksgiving but was mad at me (which was actually more related to work and less than on me) and didn’t meet them. He’s spoken with them both on the phone and has met my family that lives here in the SoCal area, but not my mom (my dad is deceased). I’ve tried sharing with him that he’s built a successful career but doesn’t put that same level of work into building his personal life. He’s admitted that he absolutely doesn’t want to spend his life alone after having done so for so many years.

    In our emails in late May, he did mention sex. He said that I have a preference of when I wanted to engage. That’s a true statement, but my response to that was, “when have i ever declined sex with you no matter what time it was?” He didn’t respond because I never have.

    I did feel like when he was home, he gave my son and I lots of time. I never felt second to work. I understood when he was busy, so even if he couldn’t talk, he may answer my calls just to say hi, then say he was in a meeting. He has an extensive international travel schedule which he would have his secretary forward to me. There have been occasions when i mixed up where he was in the world and he somehow translated that into me not caring! I shared that I’ve not screwed up more than I’ve remember so how does that translate to me not caring? When possible, I would work from his place to be there when he returned home from his trips. Even phone calls from India or Sri Lanka or China or whatever exuded such excitement from me just to hear his voice!

    I’m very emotional and loved to share with him how much I loved him. I would even ask him occasionally if he were happy and if there was anything (mentally, sexually,etc) that he needed from me and his responses were consistenly that he was happy, loved us, loved our love-making, etc. This too is why I’m dazed and confused!

    Tuesday, 14 June 2011 @ 10:45am

  604. 604: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    A suggestion from Bob Grant

    The definition of vulnerable is “capable of being
    physically or emotionally wounded or hurt.”

    For a woman, this means that even though she has been hurt by past relationships, she doesn’t let those past hurts control her future relationships. To allow a man to see your insecurities takes courage but it also makes you adorable.

    Here’s an example: If Jennifer is upset at her husband for being 15 minutes late to a dinner party, she doesn’t want to say anything. She’d rather have him apologize to her. He’s late so he should feel horrible. But if he only says, “Sorry I’m late,” in a passing moment then she has a choice.

    She can share her feelings with him without attacking him, although she will feel vulnerable because he could laugh at her, dismiss her feelings, or even roll his eyes.

    On the other hand, she could take the easy route and tell him her feelings in a sarcastic or argumentative way. By arguing and being sarcastic she is protecting herself. I’m not saying she shouldn’t be upset, but it’s how she approaches this situation that determines how vulnerable she’s being.

    If she were my client I’d have her say this, “Jim, I was so embarrassed when you showed up late. I’m not saying you did it on purpose, but it feels like you don’t care about
    what’s important to me.”

    Then I’d have her stop talking and wait. Even though Jim deserves to be verbally, blasted, if Jennifer does this she’ll miss the opportunity.

    If she waits it’s most likely that he will see her point of view and apologize. What’s even better is that Jim knows she could have really gotten upset with him and said hurtful things….and she didn’t.

    In Jim’s eyes, this powerful woman didn’t use her power against him. She didn’t argue or pick a fight when she could have. This makes her incredibly attractive.

    Tuesday, 14 June 2011 @ 11:01am

  605. 605: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks FeminineWoman. I would love to have the opportunity to practice such tactics with “E!” Of course right now, that doesn’t look like it will happen. I didn’t send him an email today! Baby steps:-)

    Tuesday, 14 June 2011 @ 12:56pm

  606. 606: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – Your relationship sounds very much parallel to mine. There’s something inside of my amazingly ambitious, high-achieving man that drives him to be the success he is today – and whatever that thing is makes him so attractive to me. I openly admit it – it’s not his money that I’m in love with. It’s everything that is part of him that just so happens makes him wealthy that I dig! On the down side, he’s also wary and sensitive. He can feel slighted by me for the most insignificant (in my view) thing that I do. If I don’t “just show up” for dinner at his place (when he never gave me a time to be there), or if I don’t spend the night with him when he’s returned from a business trip – I’ve learned there WILL be punishment. Usually it consists of him pulling away from me, and not speaking to me for days (all under the guise of “I’m working”).

    I can tell when he’s punishing me. In the past I would just give him a few days to cool off and then we’d have sex – and then we are back to normal. Not anymore. I was walking on eggshells for 4 years, GLADLY being everything I’ve always THOUGHT that a woman is SUPPOSED to be – for him. I too would ask him, “Are you happy with us? Is there anything I can do to make you happier?” And he would always say, “I’m happy. Things are great.” He never once asked ME if I was happy, or if there was anything HE could be doing to make MY life better. I now realize this relationship has been all about HIM (my fault) and I’ve discovered that I was denying myself the right to express my feelings and have what I want – in my attempt to simply keep him in my life. Mind you – I did all of this HAPPILY.

    In our relationship, my man does SO MUCH that’s right. He’s very conscious about doing the things that should make any woman happy – spends his weekends at home with me, cooks gourmet meals for me, takes me on romantic weekends away, is affectionate and cuddly… there are so many loving things he does that no other man has ever done for me before. Because of that, I always felt that bringing up the seemingly insignificant thing that he WASN’T giving me would just be me “complaining” or being “high maintenance”. All I EVER asked for was the commitment, to share a home and be together until The End. Even though I told him this at least once per year, he never offered me my desire. Instead, I found inappropriate texts to another woman on his cell phone. Granted, he wasn’t cheating – but that’s when I knew that he wasn’t DEEPLY COMMITTED to me – enough to make a permanent life together. I knew I had to do SOMETHING!

    There was a break up – sadly it had to come to that, but now I’m glad it did. He broke things off with me, but I pulled away… and after a time of missing me – he came back. I suspect your man will come back too IF you can pull away and focus on YOU long enough to let him miss you. That’s when I finally got bold enough to really tell him my feelings (and I was only able to do this after going through Rori’s program and examining myself to figure out exactly what my feelings were about the lack of commitment) I was able to tell him that I’ve felt like there are too many “rules and regulations” that I’ve had to follow. He didn’t think he’d put ANY rules down, but when I started telling him what they were it made him a bit angry – and of course he asked why I stayed for the last 4 years if these rules were so difficult to abide by.

    My answer was because I thought it was worth it. It was because I always felt like he would one day give me the one thing that I asked for, but lately I was beginning to wonder if I’ve been wasting my time.

    My guy won’t accept failure. And I think because I was able to tell him how I feel without blaming him he heard me loud and clear. Things are so much better now, and though he hasn’t made the commitment to me that I asked for (yet) – I’m following Rori’s rules and benefitting from the results.

    Hang in there, but take this time to really examine yourself, from his perspective, if you can. Rori really has the answers you’re looking for. It’s all so easy to blame the guy. He’s doing what he’s doing because something is lacking for him. Rori helped ME figure out what that was with my man, and I’m sure you’ll find your answer too.

    Wednesday, 15 June 2011 @ 7:06am

  607. 607: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Anastia. This morning is a tough one for me. I love and miss him, but am trying to refocus my time (reading info on sites like this, more prayer and looking inward). I must admit that he would also ask me if I was really happy from time to time. My answer was yes, because I really was! Like you, whatever that drive is that makes him a successful career man and writer are components of my attraction to him, and I’ve always shared that with him. I’ve always shared my feelings with him and even did hit the ceiling when a woman that he once dated (and works with currently) gave him a sweater out of the blue! Although on the inside I was fuming as I felt it totally inappropriate, my feelings were expressed calmly and received in the same manner. He even told her how I felt and advised her not to do it again.

    May I ask how long were you and your man broken up? I’m still at a point of believing that as much as I’d want us to reconciliate, its not looking like it will happen. I’ve not “seen” him since May 6th. We’ve exchanged some emails where some seemed hopeful and others where filled with his anger that I’m yet to fully understand (except I now understand the pressures of his job, that I didn’t at first). I’ve always believed he could move mountains, so in my mind there were no struggles with his job (as he never displayed them to me).

    I miss him so very much. Thoughts of us continue to interrupt my sleep and other intervals throughout my day. I’m excited for my son for the trip to the Bahamas, but I’m not excited at all because this was a trip we’d planned together as a family trip. My birthday is June 21st. Last year he took me to San Francisco, went out to a fabulous dinner and had front row tickets to “Wicked” (The Wizard of Oz is my favorite movie). It was the best birthday of my life! Fast forward and this year will probably be one of the worst. His birthday is in September and I’d started thinking about plans for it probably in May! Everything I did was focused on my son and E. He’d asked me once, “when do you think about yourself” because I was always doing for him and my son. In my mind the three of us were a family and we functioned as such. So this feels like a sudden death and it still hurts so much! I’m not finanically able to purchase Rori’s DVD’s at this moment (my ex-husband was laid off so all financial burdens with my son are my responsibility at this time). But I will continue to read her free writings posted here. I’m also very thankful to be able to share my feelings with you and others in this medium.

    Wednesday, 15 June 2011 @ 7:40am

  608. 608: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea-To be honest with you, my break up only lasted two weeks. I believe the short length (seemed like forever to me!) was because I totally checked out. He didn’t hear a WORD from me! I refused to text or email him at all. And because he travels so much I really didn’t have to worry about SEEING him at the office much.

    I believe that once you cut the contact off COMPLETELY with E, it will take about 2 weeks for him to miss you and contact you (unless he’s moved on with another woman – and we just WON’T believe that for a minute… unless that thought HELPS you to stop thinking about him.)

    How soon is your trip? Is it possible that he will see that date on his calendar and make him think “wow, I really miss them?” “I wonder if they’re having a good time?” I would like to think that is probably the case – if he ever loved you at all, he will miss you. It sounds like he did (and does) love you very much.

    I am often surprised at how my man can go for DAYS without giving me a thought (or even a call). His job is SUPER stressful, and it requires total focus on his part. During the week he falls into bed, and is often still answering emails in the middle of the night. But the weekends were ALWAYS mine. It was those times during our break up that he would have NORMALLY been spending with me that got to him the most.

    I was able to do the monthly installments with Rori’s programs by cutting back on lunches. She has a way of helping us understand what men want, how they think, but more importantly HOW to talk to them so they hear us and WANT to make us happy. A lot of women think they have been expressing their feelings to their man – and they have, but in the WRONG way. I never knew that there could be a METHOD for saying how I feel that would trigger a love response in my man – but I’ve learned it. I’m using it, and it works!

    If you only learn Feeling Messages – you could probably write E a letter and win him back almost instantly. In the meantime, kill the contact – and stick to it. He HAS to miss you.

    Wednesday, 15 June 2011 @ 8:45am

  609. 609: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea “Fast forward and this year will probably be one of the worst”. Only you get to decide that. It would be unfortunate if you have already made up your mind. Can I also invite you to join everyone else on the most recent thread where others might be able to help you process this? Focussing so much attention on him will build the psychic energy that could keep him from being magnetized toward you. Please please please put the focus back on you and working through your feelings.

    Wednesday, 15 June 2011 @ 9:01am

  610. 610: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Evening FeminineWoman and Anastastia: I’ve just downloaded Rori’s e-Book “Have the Relationship You Want.” I will read a few pages tonight and continue daily until I’ve finished the book!

    I do try to “not” focus on E, but its terribly hard for me…but I’m trying. He consumes my dreams and certain things trigger all sorts of thoughts, conversations and events that we’ve had. I’ve been very busy at work with my new assignments so that helped, but I was feeling pretty low when I woke this morning. I prayed and asked God to take away my pain and my thoughts. Afterwards, He did, and even the occasional thoughts I had after that did not drive me to tears or shake me from my focus.

    Wednesday, 15 June 2011 @ 8:33pm

  611. 611: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 610 Andrea I am happy to know you will be reading Rori’s book. It is an easy read chocked full with information. The interview with relationship expert Johnathan Aslay this month said when he had those obsessive thoughts about an ex he replaced them with BLAH BLAH BLAH. It feels a bit silly but I am having fun with it when my negative and obsessive thoughts surface. It seems many of us carry torches or space in our hearts for that one person we can’t seem to get over. He says think of your heart as a big space and kind of put him in a little spot and then focus on the big open hearted space of the rest of your heart that is there to attract your Mr. Right. I like that thought.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 5:36am

  612. 612: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 610 Andrea this might be something you want to try also

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 5:39am

  613. 613: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea-When I was getting over an ex a therapist told me how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts. She said to imagine a wonderful, peaceful place in my mind (for me that’s being at the beach)… Wear a loose rubber band around my wrist. During the day when I found myself thinking of him, I was to SNAP! the rubber band on my wrist (to break the thought) and then immediately bring up my feel good vision of me at the beach.

    It didn’t take long before the thoughts grew weaker until they finally stopped.

    I like that you have faith in God to take away your pain. Another thing I used to do was lay in my bed at night – when I felt lonely – and Imagine Jesus’ arms wrapped snuggly around me. Nothing sexual, just holding me while I cried. It strengthened me too.

    Keep us posted in how you’re doing. We are here to support you.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 5:56am

  614. 614: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Femininewoman and all, a new development here. Steve’s bro that he live with may be taken off of hospice. Doing better for the time. I told him last night, “Well Rick can help take care of you now.” He replied, “Oh no, he wouldn’t do that.” Well sirens I just know this family is going to have to step up and help. I don’t want to get bitter but I feel that way already at times. This guy takes care of his family so they need to be there for him too! He needs to care that much about himself. His bro is difficult. I hate to speak ill of a very sick man but I was sitting at their kitchen table with them last Sat. and Rick was saying that Steve has been crabbier lately and he was making faces. WELL…WELL… Steve is sick , why shouldn’t he be crabby. But I didn’t say a word because I don’t want Rick disliking me. He seems the kind of guy that can hold resentments. It’s really up to Steve to stand up to him. Steve lets him push him around because I’m sure Steve thinks he may be out of a place to live if Rick gets mad at him. It’s too back all that is going on but that’s the way I see it. It would be nice if Steve were more independent then he wouldn’t have to put up with some of this stuff. Rick dominates of Steve and it’s pretty hard to watch. Steve can be a wuss.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 6:33am

  615. 615: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 613 Jeannette I would encourage you to look at how you feel in the situation and what you would choose to do if Steve’s health deteriorate.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 6:40am

  616. 616: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #613 Jeannette,

    You wrote Steve thinks he may be out of a place to live if he stood up to Rick – does that mean you decided Steve will not be living with you after his transplant?

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 6:57am

  617. 617: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T. No I never told Steve he can’t stay with me. It’s just I think he knows in the back of his mind it may be too much for me. He knows I work a couple of jobs and get tired. When he is in the hospital I am going to tell his family that they have to help me. It’s a bold act on my part. I want to wait because if I start a riot before the transplant he may just say, “Oh just forget it if I’m not going to get more support then that!” Do any of you agree? He can get discouraged and I want to see him get the transplant.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 1:20pm

  618. 618: Lily T.No Gravatar says:


    What do you mean when you say asking his family for help? That they will care for him at Rick’s house, or yours?

    Since Steve is at the top of the transplant list, the call could come at any time. Perhaps you could speak with Steve’s family members privately and come to a decision? In that way, all of you – as a united front- could present a plan to Steve and alleviate his concerns. This waiting till the last minute business I find a bit disturbing to tell you the truth.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 1:36pm

  619. 619: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T. I may be able to take care of him for a couple of weeks but I just wanted to offer an excuse to the family as to why he may have to go elsewhere after that. I told him I would take care of him BUT I have to show him first that it’s too much before I make other plans….I am a woman of my word. And to be frank, I really do believe it will be too much….just from what others say. If I were to tell his family, he has a couple of relatives who would be involved who have big mouths. Then when he found out we were talking he would be upset that I talked with them first. If I talk to HIM first then he will say, “Oh I am just too much trouble for anyone!” Because I know how he is…Then maybe cancel the transplant out of depression or something..

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 3:07pm

  620. 620: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Oh sweetie, that is being between a rock and a hard place. (((hugs)))

    Well, it’s not like he will be going anywhere immediately after the transplant – how long is it estimated he will be in the hospital till ready to be discharged? Maybe waiting until then is the best thing for you to do, you and the relatives will still have time to organize his home care and where it will take place.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 4:23pm

  621. 621: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Lily T. I really don’t know what else to do knowing Steve and his family. My heart is beating irregularly. The doctor said it’s just stress I wonder why??!!!

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 4:45pm

  622. 622: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    More ((((HUGS)))) Jeannette. Please take care of yourself too.

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 5:51pm

  623. 623: JeannetteNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Lily T. , you too!!

    Thursday, 16 June 2011 @ 5:52pm

  624. 624: YvetteNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori

    I have been using your feeling messages with a fair degree of success lately, however, my husband and I are in a real hole. Basically, we seem to be at an impasse about a significant issue – it is not trivial.

    Anyway, he says I don’t love him and that I put him last all the time. He says I have never had to give up anything for him. I have never even considered that question until now, but if a man likes to “row the relationship boat” and needs to be needed, what does he actually mean when he says I put him last all the time? Does it most likely mean that I have not shared my heart enough with him? Is it possible to connect with a husband even where there is a significant impasse? Right now your tools don’t *seem* to be working (although I have seen some positive results on various occasions and I’m sure the “feeling statements” were a big help in our recent argument). I was feeling more hopeful about our marriage being repaired, but now I feel less.

    I do think he is currently very angry with himself (and possibly me too, b/c I will not budge with my boundary – I don’t have very many).


    Sunday, 19 June 2011 @ 6:57am

  625. 625: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I stopped at Chapter 17 in the Rori’s “Have the Relationship you want” book, and am having some problems. I’m finding that as much as I’m trying I’m finding that many of the things that are being pointed out really apply to him and not me. What tactics have you used to redirect the readings to me? I’m REALLY trying to focus on me and not E (although its so very hard)?

    Although I must admit that I cannot see the resurrection of my relationship. I’ve not seen him since he returned from his 6wks international trip on May 6th and no sex since before he left in late March for that trip. He loved me midway through that trip then an “I want” from me to him turned into pressure for him, coupled with his CFO responsibilities.

    I did however, commit to that 10wk commitment and still hope and pray that something within him will turn him to a positive thought of us and want to try the relationship again (unless he’s moved on to someone else at that point). I will hold onto hope until then, though I still admit its still VERY hard and quite dismal. But if he’s not even speaking or communicating with me, should I even assume that learning new ways to communicate will ever be used with him?

    Sunday, 19 June 2011 @ 7:55pm

  626. 626: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Andrea-The tactics in the book are all about how to communicate when you do finally reconnect with E again. Or any man that may be in your life thereafter. These are important skills. For me, a lot of the information in Rori’s book opened my eyes about the things I was doing wrong that contributed to the issues that we had as a couple – and why he wasn’t moving forward and committing to me. Is anything you’re reading in there clicking with you? I know that Chapter 19 was a big eye opener for me.

    It may be time to consider circular dating. When I started just “looking” at and simply noticing other men, and becoming open to the possibility that maybe another man could make me happier – my whole vibe changed. My man felt it too… and we weren’t even speaking!

    You have faith. So you have to believe that if your relationship with E is the right thing for you and your son… it will work out. (And if it does you will have the tools you need to communicate with him)… But you also have to be open to the idea that if it isn’t God’s will, and another man is right for you… don’t be closed off to that. There is someone for EVERYONE!

    You should start counting your time away from E based on your last communication – not when you last saw him. If you don’t mind sharing… what were some of the things in his emails that could be clues to HIS feelings?

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 6:43am

  627. 627: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Anastasia,
    I think it’ll take me a re-read grasp the circles of what I know and what I don’t know. I very much appreciate the 5keys and feel as though I I’d already chosen to commit to the relationship, support the team and respect the masculine. I learned a little about choosing one side (masculine versus feminine energy), and I also appreciated some of the tactics to learning how to express my feminine.

    Here is where I am (and am emotionally up and down with it): At times no tears, strong prayer and faith; then I can very quickly move to just the opposite. I REALLY am trying but I waver.

    What I feel for E is a totally different expericence for me. I’ve been married “twice” and never have I felt this way about a man. When he finally opened and dropped everything on me he started with one thing and depending on the day it was something else:

    *I don’t really care about him because if I did I would keep up with his travel itineraries (I’ve kept up with about 98% but he seems to hold on to the few times where I did mix up his whereabouts)

    *I dominate conversations about my son (I didn’t recognize it until he brought it up, and shared that I wasn’t aware and could work to not dominate conversations. But when I would attempt to ask about his family & childhood, he would never elaborate or change the subject).

    *I’m only interested in acquiring a nice wedding ring and large house (What I’ve shared with him is that he planted the seeds in my head of what type of home and ring he would provide. I believed there wasn’t anything he couldn’t do, so I believed it, got excited about it I think as most women would).

    *I’m only “pretending” to read for pleasure just when he’s around. (I admit that I’ve not read for pleasure since my son was born and I’ve NEVER read at the rate he does. He’s an insatiable reader. I’ve shared with him that I liked that influence of his level of reading and its re-peeked interest in me to read, but as a mom, I would never have that kind of time. Again, but I have enjoyed reading again and my son has noticed it as well.

    *I don’t share his interests. He works very hard, loves to read, loves going to the movies, is a writer and volunteers with a couple of non-profits. He’s VERY serious about giving back to the community. He’s the son and grandson of medical physicians and that was instilled in all of his brothers very early. They are all professional men (retired judge and tenured professor at Columbia), so part of the civic activities combine with their professions. (I think for me, being a divorced mom of a small child, I don’t have the time to commit to service as much as I would like to, but would love to. I saw a show called “Secret Millionaire” a few months back that was filmed here in LA. I was so moved by the show and vowed I would help one of the non-profits somehow and shared that with E. Its a shelter for displaced women and children. On Saturday morning, I took them bags of clothes, shoes and purses and told the founder I would love to help, but as a single mom, time isn’t always my friend. She said some people volunteer an hour a month! So, I’ve been praying that the Lord opens that door to allow me to work with this organization and do some things with them and for them I’ve always wanted to do. E, in my life was a reminder of me wanting to help and pushed me to act. Since we started dating, he and I went to the movies regularly and I loved it! Before him, I would attend movies but they were the animated movies for my son. I’ve always wanted to write a children’s book and him in my life reminded me and made me believe I could. I didn’t get that support from my 2nd husband, my son’s father). We believe in the same God and in so many things, so I don’t know how we’ve no interest. He seems to think that because I’ve begun to act or react since having met him that I’m only doing to appease him. I would say that him in my life reminds of what I’ve wanted to do and makes me believe that i can.

    I have always noticed a good-looking guy, but my mind and heart are so focused on E, those thoughts came and went as quickly as they entered. I’m so not ready to even imagine that there may be somene else for me (and can’t even accept it yet). I still love him with all that I am.

    In one of his last emails he said to me “this isn’t a life, this is a war” so go on with your life. He said that after having just sharing with me the pressures of his job. He didn’t say he was at war with me, but in case that’s what he meant I responded by saying that “I’m so very sorry if I added pressure to your life as that was never my intention. All If I’ve wanted to do was be in the trenches with you to have your back always.” And I still do.

    I know I can’t control him (nor do I want to) I just want to love him the way he wants to be loved. Tomorrow is my birthday and I’m upset because I don’t think I’ll even get a “Happy Birthday” from him. I know that’s silly, but that’s how I feel.

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 9:59am

  628. 628: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Andrea-Thanks for responding. There are several key messages here that are jumping out. He seems to somehow feel that you are not being “authentic” and that seems to be turning him off. When he says that you don’t read for pleasure like him… that you’re only doing it because HE likes it… he’s sensing and responding to something in you that you don’t see in yourself.

    You’re clearly a pleaser (like almost all of us). Even the part about volunteering stands out. He doesn’t really EXPECT you to be totally into all of the things that he’s into (though it appears that you believe it will bring you closer). But what he seems to be saying (based on what I’ve learned from Rori) is that you’re not being YOURSELF. You are moulding yourself to please him instead of moulding yourself to be yourself. You are inventing YOU based on what you think he wants you to be (because you believe that’s what he wants)… and that’s the total opposite of what attracts a man and makes him want to commit. This makes you come across to him as a poser… a fake.

    If you don’t have the time to read for pleasure (because your son means more to you than giving away your precious time on something that doesn’t really interest you) then don’t try harder to fit the image of what you think his ideal woman is. Express your (very valid) feelings. You just say, “I like to read, but I feel that I need to spend my time on things that are more important to me.” This opens your heart, tells him who you really are… and for that he will love you deeper.

    I was the same way, so I know that becoming YOURSELF works. When I was trying to please a man I never did the things that came from inside of ME, I always did the things that he liked and convinced myself that I was passionate about them too.

    Just because you love that he’s very civic minded doesn’t mean that you should become civic minded too, especially when it isn’t naturally something that you’re into.

    One thing I can see that you are totally into is being a parent to your son. Maybe that’s an area that you weren’t “letting him in”? The one place that really IS you, and you closed it off so he could not enter?

    Regardless, in everything you’ve said there wasn’t anything about what you REALLY want in there… I mean, there was some “reasoning” about why you were able to be interested in reading and civic stuff… but where’s Andrea? What is she all about? What makes HER happy? (besides being with this man?)

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 2:47pm

  629. 629: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Anastasia,
    Its not that I didn’t enjoy reading, but becoming a mom, didn’t afford me the time I used to have before my son was born. Will I ever read at the speed E, does? Never, and I’ve expressed that to him. But I do enjoy a good book. I just feel as though I didn’t know how to balance it with a small child. That’s the same feeling I have about volunteering. I believe that he reminded me that I was once interested in giving back (I even had a business plan wrote up and had begun speaking with people to help me with it), but when my son was born, my focus was solely on being a great Mommy! But I felt I was both expanding myself and returning to an enjoyable pasttime. Not so much to please him, but as a result of seeing him do it.

    I love my son beyond words. Over the course of this relationship, my son had grown to love E and he loved my son. We spent wonderful quality time together and discussed everything as a family. On the school days when my son was with me (I share custody with my ex-husband), E would come over and help him with his homework and reading. We would eat dinner together, play games together, go to children appropriate movies, to the park, house hunting and church together. That’s probably why when we were on the phone, I would always share with what was going on with my son (good or bad). Last summer I signed my son up for a reading program at a local community college. When he was in town, he would come to the sessions and observed. He and my son would have wonderful talks, and laugh so hard together. My son asked me about a year ago, if the three of us were a family. I told him yes, and I told E, that in our mind (mine and my son’s) we were.

    I really am a pleaser and that makes me happy. I love to laugh. I SO into being a mom and was SO into being a girlfriend/fiancee’. I’m really quite simple. I don’t ask for much. I just want to love and have him love me. I love him unconditionally. Was that too much?

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 3:31pm

  630. 630: ACENo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been reading your posts and I think Anastasia has just given you the best advice you could possibly receive. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like you’re ready to hear it. From an outsider’s perspective, it truly sounds like some deep part of you is refusing to change. YOU are not comprised 100% of your relationships to others. If you really believe that, I think you’re missing out on the best relationship you can ever have – peace w/ yourself. Please try to see the mirror here, Anastasia is completely on point.
    Good luck!

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 4:20pm

  631. 631: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    ACE I didn’t say that I was rejecting Anastasia’s responses to me. In fact, the reason I continue to post is because I’m trying very hard to injest the suggestions and recommendations provided to me. I’m hear because I’m lost and whether I’m reading to hear it or not does not mean I’m not listening. I so desparately want an opportunity to be able to use what I’ve been reading, or learn to accept if it is over. What I don’t appreciate is you making me feel worse by telling me what I don’t want to hear. In this forum of support you sound so hard, and in a place where women choose to meet FOR support, that didn’t help me at all. And hurting as I am, it only made me hurt worse. Thanks for that!

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 6:19pm

  632. 632: ACENo Gravatar says:

    I’m so sorry that you felt my comments were so harsh. It’s certainly not my intension to add more stress to your difficult situation. I only felt that you’d been asking for help, getting such great advice and then perhaps not taking it fully to heart, but of course ultimately only you can be the judge of that. Probably what you’re noticing in my tone is the pact I have w my friends to never let each other off the hook or avoid making deep, scary, authentic changes in our lives. I apologize if that’s not been well received here. I’ll only say that I thrive on hearing things that I “don’t want to hear” because often it’s the only way to get unstuck. Only suggesting that you take a chance in thinking differently, it might serve to bring you peace more quickly than you think. That’s all! Heartfelt best wishes to you and your son.

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 7:54pm

  633. 633: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you ACE. Its not that I don’t appreciate honesty, because that’s how I try to live my life and raise my son. I know you’ve absolutely no way of knowing the depth of my pain (and the physical manifestations of my pain and stress), but trust me when I say I am REALLY trying to heed what the other women are sharing. I think I’ve been on the site about a week and before doing a Google search I’ve never heard of Rori Raye, so perhaps my ability to accept advice are very tiny Baby steps. I think purchasing the e-book and returning to share indicates I want to learn. It has occured to me that I’m ok and comfortable (and pretty darn good at being a mom), and with the support of this site, you ladies and other reading material, I don’t know what I want for me (except the obvious: home, financial & emotional security, etc), I don’t think I’ve ever thought about “me.” I must admit that I don’t think I know how! I will be 46 yrs old tomorow and I don’t think I know what I want for me! How do I begin to know that when I’ve been very good at always wanting to be a pleaser. Man that revelation has added another level of insecurity!r

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 8:38pm

  634. 634: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea-I admit that I spent the majority of my life being someones daughter, someones mother, and someones wife. That was my identity until I realized I didn’t even know myself. There’s nothing wrong with being a dedicated mom but just know that someday when your son is grown you will be faced with yourself.

    It’s time to find out who you are on your own outside of all of your relationships. The good news is your faced with the wonderful experience of discovering who YOU really are… And that is very exciting.

    For me I discovered that I enjoy playing the guitar, I like to make my own sushi, and I am in love with photography. My man isn’t into any of these things but he’s said that he loves the fact that I have my own thing to be involved with.

    The world is full of stuff to experience. It’s like shopping for things you enjoy.

    Tuesday, 21 June 2011 @ 11:23am

  635. 635: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I definitely plan to learn to golf! I aslo (really I do) want to work with the non-profit I visited last weekend, which is different than those that E works with. I would also love to teach English at a community college at least twice a week! Today being my birthday, I’m going to eat ice cream after I leave this meeting I’m in!
    E sent a simple Happy B’day email.

    Tuesday, 21 June 2011 @ 11:51am

  636. 636: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea-Hey!!! I forgot to say Happy Birthday!!!… and the fact that E remembered is fantastic. Just respond with a simple “thank you” and nothing more (unless you already have)… Only respond if he asks a question.

    Also… CONGRATULATIONS!!! You finally wrote something about yourself and your future that is all about YOU and only you… that’s a baby step girlfriend… And I’m here to say “way to go!” The more thought you put into you, the easier it will get… your whole vibe will change.

    I’m sure there’s more on your list… but golf, non-profit volunteering and teaching English at community college is a great place to start.

    Tuesday, 21 June 2011 @ 12:47pm

  637. 637: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    You make me smile and cry, but these are happy tears. Thank you for the words of encouragement, but I must confess that I was so excited that he chose to wish me a happy birthday, I did say thank you and “I miss you.” Of course no response from him, but no regrets.

    I must say that this morning started out very lousy and sad as I was feeling very lonely. Definitely not the birthday I’d like to have, but it is what it is. I’ll stop and do laundry a little bit later. I keep replaying my birthday last year when E took me to San Francisco. I REALLY do miss him, and know there’s nothing I can do about it.

    Golfing, non-profit and teaching have been dreams of mine for a long time. I put everything on the back burner after my son was born. When i went to the women’s and children’s shelter last weekend, I mentioned to her that I’ve always wanted to setup a non-profit to teach etiquette, financial skills to inner-city young ladies. She actually said that she would allow me to setup shop there and create a new project plan. I was very excited but I know that I must really pray about that level of commitment. I have to make sure I don’t exclude my son, and that my heart is right and not just a reaction to my breakup with E. I think I’ll start with investigating golf lessons. Much simpler task:-)

    Tuesday, 21 June 2011 @ 2:21pm

  638. 638: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I didn’t do laundry today (though I REALLY need to). After going on a customer appointment I decided I would treat myselt to ice cream for my birthday, but couldn’t bring myself to do it (goal weight is still 8-9lbs away). I did however buy 3 cookies from Subway (and kinda feel bad about them), so that was my sweet treat for my birthday.

    I had a nice conversation wth the neighbor across the street (turns out his birthday is tomorrow), and I got TONS of Happy BIRTHDAY well-wishes on Facebook, and phone calls from family members and friends, but I still my being with my E. Although he would have been in London anyway today, when he filled parts of my heart, I felt his presence, when he was someplace abroad.

    Tuesday, 21 June 2011 @ 7:42pm

  639. 639: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Andrea-I’m so happy that you thought about yourself on your birthday. Even if you decided NOT to eat the sweet treats, you refrained for YOURSELF – and no one else. It shows that you are on your way.

    I am encouraged that E remembered your birthday. I know that you miss him, but maybe now would be a good time to try out a few “feeling messages” here in the forum… things you would say to him, without blaming him for your broken heart… etc.

    I’ve been struggling with coming up with a feeling message to deliver at the right moment to my man about how when he constantly plays games on his cell phone (even when we were together on a date at a concert over the weekend) I feel ignored. The problem with me is that I’m not that in touch with how I feel, so it’s taken me a few days to understand what has been upsetting me. Now I’ve figured it out, and creating a FM to convey that without ripping his head off (and throwing his iPhone into the toilet) is a bit of a challenge.

    Feeling messages definitely take practice. Have you come up with any that you would use to tell E your feelings yet?

    Wednesday, 22 June 2011 @ 6:25am

  640. 640: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Anastasia,
    I’m sorry that you are having feelings of being ignored. From my conversations with you, you don’t deserve to be made to feel that way.

    I think you really understand what I’m experiencing because I was going to post this morning that I didn’t know how to express my feelings to E, and was going to ask you just how to say it. Honestly, I’m so scared and don’t know if he will respond. Or should I even be expecting a response when he’s not even communicating with me? It seems that since he’s in London there’s been no communication at all (except the happy birthday).

    If I’m going against protocol, please advise me, but am I allowed to share my personal email address with you on this forum?

    Wednesday, 22 June 2011 @ 6:38am

  641. 641: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Andrea-The LAST thing you want to do is actually contact E… but you DO want to have your feeling messages ready to go when/if he does. I believe he will eventually contact you – but it may take some time. (and you have some work to do in the meantime.) The world traveling can delay things. I know when my man travels (almost every week) he only goes to Mexico and Canada and I don’t hear from him at ALL. He’s just so focused, he doesn’t take the time to just call to say “hi” unless he’s not busy… which is rare.

    Let’s do this… here is an obscure email address that is “offline” to share personal email addresses with… that way we aren’t blasting out email address to the world… friendofafriend691@hotmail.com

    Send me your email to this address and then I’ll email you from my “real” address. How does that sound?

    Wednesday, 22 June 2011 @ 6:49am

  642. 642: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Just sent message from my email address!

    I used to hear from E no matter where he was in the world (Bombay, Sri Lanka, Israel, Thailand, Hong Kong, Athens, parts of Africa, Bolivia, Rio, New York, DC, and every other country he’s visited since I’ve known him). I do agree that I’m not ready, but the thought of him not hearing me when I am (or even continuing to give me the opportunity to speak with him) upsets my stomach and scares me to death!

    I believe I marked the some time in late September as the end of my commitment date to try to restore/resurrect my relationship with E. I continue to pray daily (and fast on Tuesday’s) that we can find our way back to one another, and that when we do, I’ll be a different woman that he can appreciate.

    Wednesday, 22 June 2011 @ 7:05am

  643. 643: BeckaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rory, Im in need of some help and not sure what to do or what programs to purchase ect. I got myself in a sticky situation and thanks to your newsletters i was able to get my bf of 3 years to fall in love with me and promise to be with me and never leave minus the ring. He wanted to commit 100% after I broke up with him and decided id move on because the realationship wasnt moving foreward. The problem is during our break up I was ” permiscuous” and did what I wanted and with who I wanted. When he cried for me to get back with him I knew he’d ask and hear about people I dated when we were apart. I am currently with him and he did everything he said he’d do when we got back together but I feel very terrible. I was honest with him and told him 100% truth of the many men that i dated while we were apart including the partying I did because he asked. He doesn’t want us to break up anymore and take the next step and so do I bit its hard moving past our big bump in the road. Theres alot more to say but i’ll keep this short. He didn’t give me what i wanted 2 years ago,left me 2xs for other girls in full on realationships,and in the end when i called a final break up, and left. He didnt want anyone but me when he saw I was moving on and he tried to also but now we are back together and both promised never leave again and shared with all our friends over a dinner party. The issue is im giving it my all this last time and i feel bad for hurting him with all the men i dated to spite him. I want an outside opinion. I own up to what I did but this isnt a normal realtionship problem. I love him and non of us cheated ever but what do I do? I dont know any women who have been through what Im going through. I need strong advice and help. Thank you. Id appreciate it very much. I am frustrated and in love with someone who wont leave and he is a professional man so he can have any girl he wants and chooses to stay when i know i hurt him.~ BM

    Saturday, 25 June 2011 @ 5:21pm

  644. 644: AnastasiaNo Gravatar says:

    643: Becka… I don’t know if Rori would agree with this, but you need to concentrate more on the HERE AND NOW rather than the past. The past is the past. Who cares?

    When you’re not in a commited relationship you can do whatever you want. Your guy doesn’t need to hear all the gorey details, and you don’t need to feel guilty. Until there’s a solid commitment (for most that’s a ring on the finger) nobody owes anybody anything… What you did when you guys were broken up is none of his business and you need to get over feeling like you owe him any explanation… because you don’t.

    Good luck!

    Sunday, 26 June 2011 @ 11:43am

  645. 645: RebeccaNo Gravatar says:

    Anastasia, I thought my post would be on its own so I appoligize for jumping in on this particular one. IU am new to this website but the whole past is the past and he doesn’t need to know..that’s exactly what I told him but he wanted to know. We are still together but working on things. It’s a bit of a set back for me because he said if he knew before what I did while we were broken up he wouldn’t have asked me to get back with him and chased me down. I have done everything bad that goes against the morals of being in a realationship and he still keeps coming back. Example: hooking up with his friends,breaking up with him,partying almost every night, pushing him to be with other girls and not me,and introducing him to guys I was with and pushing them to also be friend him, and I even moved away out of state. Not sure why after all I have done that he wants me. I am not insecure or beating myself up. I am just amazed at how badly I treated him and he comes back. He says it’s the emotional connection he has with me that he has never found with anyone else and he just can’t leave when he tried. Just not sure what I need to do to help re-build the bond between us though. I realized after everything I did to him and him to me that I do love him. I worry that it may not work out so I am doing everything I can to make things better and he is also. I am 25 in two weeks and he is 41. There’s an age gap and he can find a woman older and wiser than me and I can have a guy my age but for whatever reason we want each other. We both have tried moving on but it never happens. Three years later here we are still standing together. I thank Roris newletters for helping to guide me to this point but I wish I had read all this before;however, I don’t regret anything because there’s a reason for it all. I just want to do more to improve the realationship and build the bond of trust. We live in a small town so majority of the time we run into my past flings and it makes it hard on him. I am doing all that I can to make him secure again but it’s not easy. Thank you for the advice Anastasia though. I want to repost this on my own forum to see if it leads to the answers I seek. Realationships are not easy but sometimes all the work is worth getting what us girls want. :)

    Tuesday, 28 June 2011 @ 1:18pm

  646. 646: LILI 41No Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori,

    I am having a hard time not accusing. I asked my boyfriend: Is there really not anything going on with that woman you just hugged while talking so closely? He called me on the jealousy and I admitted to it by saying: yes I am, because you used to have eyes only for me, you used to give me public affection and that has changed. I miss that from you and I wonder how to get it back. He said that he had been waiting so long for any sign of commitment from me that he gave up and wasn’t sure anymore about wanting to commit to me. I was holding back for about 1 whole year because I was so scared of choosing the wrong man. But he was the right man and I told him: You were the right man for me, but I did not trust my judgement after the past wrong choices I made. For the 3rd time I told him that I did want to commit to him but feel that it may be too late. He said it might not be too late. He gave me hints at wanting to commit, but I feel he is constantly testing me. He gets the slightest hint (perception) of noncommitment from me and he backs off and avoids me. I can’t stand the pressure of this testing and feel that he is eyeing other women (sort of like the man version of circular dating) to keep his options open. Allthough I told him how insecure I am with all this not knowing where he stands with me, I feel that I keep pushing him away by accusing him of flirting. But he was still open to listening. I explained how I wanted more open communication, I want to connect with him and I get jealous when I see him doing that with other women. He’s upset that I keep bringing it up. But he did listen to me very attentively. I certainly got the feeling part of communication, but I am struggling with the not accusing. Any words of encouragement or advice to help me finally get it in practice? This guy is warm, friendly, outgoing, generous…but very protective of himself toward me and I am having quite a challenge taking his guard down and having him trust my intentions. I told him that I feel that I could never do or say enough to reassure him and asked him if he things I should just give up and start fresh with someone else. He responded that he isn’t sure anymore (finally I got honesty from him). Now I want to call him after giving him a 1 day space to think, because of his questioning my commitment intentions. If I don’t call him, he will likely think that my commitaphobe me is back.

    Sunday, 14 August 2011 @ 5:07pm

  647. 647: LILI 41No Gravatar says:

    I said to him that I wanted open and honest communication and he gave it to me. Not what I wanted to hear: that he was sure at 1st but now unsure after having waited for so long for me to show up. We are now at the 2 year mark and I am at the end of my witts waiting for him to make up his mind about what he wants from me.

    Sunday, 14 August 2011 @ 5:19pm

  648. 648: LILI 41No Gravatar says:

    He waited a year for me, I have been waiting for him for the following year. Shouldn’t we be even now?

    Sunday, 14 August 2011 @ 5:22pm

  649. 649: nengNo Gravatar says:

    my boss always mad at me, even its just a minor mistakes, he easily get irritated even i havent done something wrong..some of my friends tells me that my boss likes me thats why he acted like that…he wants my attention..but i dont think he likes me.i cant feel it.

    Wednesday, 17 August 2011 @ 7:10am

  650. 650: cherylNo Gravatar says:

    I need to talk to someone. First of all I want to say that I have been a very bad friend to my guy. We met online in April 2010 and we communicated very well. the photo that I posted was very cute and about 10 years younger than I was. I thought that what I would do would be to capture his heart and then he would love me. I did not tell him that I also weighed about a hundred pounds heavier than the picture showed. Well we talked on the phone and chatted every day. From this I was inspired to lose about 75 pounds and we decided to finally meet. I still was over 200 pounds but we met anyway and when we did it was pkay but all he said to me was, “you don’t look like your picture”
    I kept chatting to him but not as much and he continued to call me by my pet name “Mama” and I would call him “Papa”. In January I got a job near him and we went out from time to time but I was very jealous and said some very mean and rotten things…I mean they were cursing, screaming…just awful. He took it though. He was so frustrating. He invited me this year for his birthday. When we went to the concert, he saw a woman that he had gone out with and he kept looking at her. I asked if it was Susan and he said yes. I asked him if he wanted to talk to her and he asked me if it was okay..I said yes but remember to come back…but inside I was very upset and his friend dave saw it and mentioned it to him. I admitted to him that it did make me angry and that I thought that for my self that he was very frustrating because he never gave me compliment and I said to him that I understand how he feels woth me how could anyone be attracted to such a fat woman as me and that idon’t blame him. i told him that i was not happy with me..and i told him that i did not want to see him again..i was so mean to him. i love him but I was going through so much. I was alone in a strange new place, my job was in danger and I was so unhappy with my weight. I have lost a lot of weight and now people say that I am very beautiful I just want to see him so that he will say that I am too but I can’t see to get him to see me. I write to him and tell him that I miss him, he has my new photos and still I cant seem to get him to come back…we were very close i bought your dvd “modern Siren” and now I am watching it. I just don’t know what to do…I was so mean to him, but it wasnt him it was because I could not live up to his expectations…

    Monday, 5 September 2011 @ 10:58pm

  651. 651: KattNo Gravatar says:

    How do i reconnect with him if he wont call? wont email or text? Hes very angry at me for finding out about his dating site profile and secretly watching him and trying to set him up. His response was very defensive like i said.. but no response after 2 1/2 yrs?????? This is how it ends? Guess i need more of the program… i miss him..though…
    I have been CD and have met 3 guys… all were definately hinting at sexual innuendo’s.I wasnt interested…and it kind of made me angry that they assumed they were getting sex.. unreal..I’ll be dating myself for a while i think..

    Sunday, 13 November 2011 @ 2:33pm

  652. 652: Raymond BorkNo Gravatar says:

    Rori is right, I know that usually when I have gotten angry with my wife, I am just reacting to something she has said that hit a nerve.
    Now, I apologize almost immediately. But in the early days of our relationship I was stubborn, and my negative reaction would often build into a fight or I’d stop talking for hours.

    I’m amazed how well she handled my immaturity.

    Friday, 20 January 2012 @ 6:12am

  653. 653: aamiraNo Gravatar says:

    Yesterday me and my male friend was communicating very will but he say he call me back. I said okay. Then we hang up phone. Okay around midnight I needed somebody talk to so I called him up no answer so I called again it went straight voicemail so I left voicemail saying is he mad at me. And did I do something wrong but outter no where I snap for no reason because a thought can and my mind that he had female around him.. and now I feel so wrong that I was going frustrated for min but he’s not responding to text message ..I haven’t called him but that point right there that he could be angry at me… I mean he’s grate Guy I just went little to far..I told him an text message that I was sorry twice . Don’t know what do help me somebody please???

    Tuesday, 1 May 2012 @ 4:43am

  654. 654: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    aamira – we can help you get control of yourself…if you’ll comment and interact here when you feel compelled to call. You are clearly chasing this man and clinging to him and contact with him, and overly concerned about what he thinks and feels….building your confidence and your life outside of romance is the key here. Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 1 May 2012 @ 9:06am

  655. 655: ElianeNo Gravatar says:

    Ok, so what if you felt uncomfortable with something about him and told him then he made you feel a little at ease but when you start talking again he answers in short messages? Also you talk to him and he doesn’t reply for a few minutes or he doesn’t reply at all and when he does the response doesn’t lead to another conversation and you have to say something else so that you can keep talking to him?

    Saturday, 5 May 2012 @ 8:10pm

  656. 656: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Elaine – talking with a man requires real skills. Otherwise, you’re likely just shutting him down and pushing him away. Please start with the ebook, really learn those basics and pratice consistently with your man – and then go straight to Love Scripts and Modern Siren – and see if that makes sense and helps you. Love, Rori

    Sunday, 6 May 2012 @ 9:36am

  657. 657: kokoNo Gravatar says:

    Well i have been trying to figure out what’s going on with my husband early he has not been affectionate or sexual and he has been very cranky and gets snappy with me over something that is so smile i find myself apologizing alot. He has been distant. O thought he was cheating but he has come home right after work and he barly goes out. Wants wrong i need help

    Wednesday, 30 May 2012 @ 4:22pm

  658. 658: RadloveNo Gravatar says:


    Welcome! Not sure specifically without more information, but FYI, most of us post on the newest blog thread, found here…


    Wednesday, 30 May 2012 @ 10:32pm

  659. 659: janeNo Gravatar says:

    well i m doing every thing in my power to not lose my 10 year relationship that my soulmate but his said i need to get out of living through feels and grow up but i have abandon issues we are on the rocks that i love is shited right not and he tell me if i dont stop he will have to move on

    Monday, 25 June 2012 @ 8:47am

  660. 660: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    jane – if you can find some kind of coaching or therapy – that’s what it sounds like you need. If you’re in the US – you might be able to find a CODA group in your city – it’s free, and might help you a great deal. Love, Rori

    Monday, 25 June 2012 @ 11:03am

  661. 661: KeniaNo Gravatar says:

    We had broke for a year and got back together this april. On May 25, he told me that he loved me so much but I never appreciate him and his love. Then he said he doesn’t love me anymore. I don’t know what to do because things were going great, he was telling me I love you, when we together he was very affectionate. Please help i’m confuse, hurt, sad, and mad.

    Tuesday, 26 June 2012 @ 7:27am

  662. 662: ChellNo Gravatar says:

    I unexpectantly saw a platonic male friend of mine last night at a concert. Prior on New Years he said he had stopped by my home twice and I wasn’t home. I hadnt seen him in four months. I said hi to him and gave hug then went back to hang with friends. He left about 45 min later and didnt say bye and I didn’t even know he left. So I was wondering why he claimef to have stopped by home so he could see me, then saw me and left without saying goodbye and we hardly talked.

    Sunday, 6 January 2013 @ 7:42pm

  663. 663: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Chell – Please stop asking the wrong questions – like “Why is he doing this?” And simply let it go. Let him do what he wants. AND – ask HIM any questions you have. Clarity is beautiful, and yet often all we have is a muddy pond – so we have to see THAT as beautiful, too. Love, Rori

    Monday, 7 January 2013 @ 1:22pm

  664. 664: ClareNo Gravatar says:


    Myself and my husband are separated at the moment and living apart. It has been this way for almost three months so far. His reasons for leaving me where that I showed him no respect, spoke to him like dirt and took him for granted. We argued a lot and just lost our friendship too. He wanted me to change, although for myself not him. I have taken this on board and am (in line with all of your advice too!) making positive changes to the person I am – for me mainly, but also to benefit those around me. I am learning to love myself and be happy with myself.

    My problem is, I have today started to try and communicate my feelings and thoughts to him better. I see myself, and would like to be, the feminine energy of the relationship and he seems best as the masculine energy.

    After a good week with lots of friendship rebuilding last week, he has become more distant again the last couple of days and so I told him that I felt sad today. He didn’t get it at first, but then asked why. I said I don’t want to lost the friendship that we had started to build the week before. However, he got angry with me and said I was being unfair; I’d only said what I had, so that he would ask why I was sad and I could say what I did about losing the friendship. I explained that there was no intent and no expectation, that I was just trying to improve communication and express myself better, but it didn’t seem to make any difference.

    How do I handle that??


    Monday, 14 January 2013 @ 6:23am

  665. 665: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Clare – your situation and question will be helpful for EVERYONE here – because it’s about ANGER. What has to happen here is for you to allow your husband to get angry with you. You have to hear him. If he can’t spew at you everything he’s held back all these years, you’ll never get past “civil.” Please get a bit of coaching, read everything you can here, and learn how to LISTEN to his anger, to OWN what’s happened in the past, to apologize, and to absolutely communicate in such new ways now that he feels safe with all of this. This is your best chance here. Love ,Rori

    Monday, 14 January 2013 @ 3:28pm

  666. 666: ClareNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rori – I think you are absolutely right, although I am still at a loss as to what to do.

    Whilst certainly not excusing my behaviour in our relationship, I know he has had many personal issues in his childhood / early adult life (he’s 42 now, which also seems to be an issue for him!) and his previous marriage and relationship after that (but before me) were, by the sounds of it, horrendous. There seems to be so much in his head and heart that he is struggling with and has as you say ‘held back for so many years’ but despite trying I can’t seem to get to it. I have tried (as others close to him have) to get him to open up, to ask if he’s okay, if there’s anything on his mind, if he would like to talk, etc. but he always just says he’s fine. I changed tack the other day and tried the feeling messages, but as described above that’s wasn’t too successful on this occasion…. how do I get him to open up?

    I wrote him a long handwritten letter before Christmas really apologising for everything I have done – I went into detail of what I understood his problems with my behaviours to be, why they were wrong, apologised and went on to say how I would work and improve things. I tried to relate to the problems from his past that I knew about. Again, there was no expectation of a response from him, no expectation of an outcome, so it has never been discussed, although he briefly at one point said I had written it to back him into a corner.

    I am willing to really listen to him, to apologise again, sincerely, to help him work through any problems, be it within himself or our relationship, but I just don’t know how to get him to talk about anything and be willing to actually discuss our relationship and work on it….?


    Tuesday, 15 January 2013 @ 3:44am

  667. 667: pisceschickNo Gravatar says:

    I am exactly having this dilemma. Me and my man were arguing yesterday regarding a possible pregnancy and what we will do. He started w what will you do question which hit a nerve inside me coz to me it shouldn’t be just my decision. That’s how the argument started. I told him I could not talk and suggested w talk later coz at the same time some other aspect of my life was not going well that day. He replies w just “k.” I knew he was already annoyed. Although, I thought that was the best way to handle and take a hold of my emotion. Then, I decided to answer his question so to avoid conflicts. But, it only lead to heated conversation. We disagreed in the decision making of what to do if I was pregnant. He suggested abortion and adoption, while I wanted us to have the child and raise the kid. In the end, I guess he grew frustrated of my emotion coz I got emotional in the conversation. I could be a parent soon and to me its our child. I can’t imagine a life without the kid and this got me emotional. He was really upset and ended up saying that if I was pregnant he will only have to do w the child and not me, and if I wasn’t, he said to leave him alone. W all the blaming he did and w the last statement, I decided not to reply. I don’t know if it was the best move, but I was hurting. And, when I’m hurting I prefer to be left alone. I did tell him how much it was hurting me, but it just made him more upset when I tried communicating my feelings. Until now, I have not replied and letting the storm pass until a few days. But at the same time, w the hurt it makes me not want to try to talk to him and annoy him even more. I honestly don’t know what to do or what to say.

    Friday, 22 February 2013 @ 10:11pm

  668. 668: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    pisces, so sorry for the intensity you’re experiencing, and please, please make this decision without him. No matter what happens, you may quickly become a single mom, and you need to know you can do that. Love, Rori

    Friday, 22 February 2013 @ 10:31pm

  669. 669: TaraNo Gravatar says:

    I have a situation that is taking over me, please help someone. I am 23 and the guy in this is 25
    Me and my ex last month met up after not seeing eachother for 4 years. he broke up with me bc he wants his family to choose his wife, or marry a cousin as it is in his culture. We are same religion not same country. Okay so when he broke it off, I was stupid and tried to work it out… I know I annoyed him, but he broke it off via text and without any goodbye or anything. So there would be days he would call me loser, tell me get a life, called me b*tch, mother f*cker, but I still cared for him :( okay so I stop talking to him when I asked back for the ring I gave him, I gave him back the one he gave me… he said he didn’t have it and I was a effing liar and to eff off, and said f*uck you to me. :( so that is when I stop talking to him…. after 9 months we got back in contact he told me he found the ring and was sorry, and than a month ago we met. HE DID NOT GIVE ME THE RING!!!
    I didn’t care because I still care for him and just was happy we were friends. So this is were the problem starts. I was about to take a huge exam for law school and all I was thinking of was him calling me names yelling at me, and stuff, so I panicked and texted him one to many and he said to chill, so I did but told him I was scared. He tried to reassure me once but always was ignoring me. So I stressed and the next day I text him a sorry and he didn’t reply so hours later I called and he picked up but it was my landline, and I told him I was sorrry and forgive me for the excessive texts was the reason of the call, he said “you already said sorry twice, I am busy I can’t talk bye” he hung up. so I text saying are you mad he replied a “can you stop” and than said he didn’t want any excuse or explainatio just for me to stop or he will block all incoming calls (all i assume bc he has the Iphone which does that?!) So i stopped, cried and haven’t slept right since than (Feb. 8) I tried texting him a week and a half ago he didn’t respond so I block myself from texting until 4 days ago but I have not text and he hasn’t either, I know he is very busy…. but I MISS HIM. will he ever talk to me again??????
    He said he saw a bright future in our friendship when we met & we would go out in March for my bday… do you think he will ever want to see me again??? I am so scared I can concentrate. I am in UK for a conferance and I ned to write a speech but I am scared he is mad at me, or hates me.
    He’s hurt me a lot so it was hard to trust him. that why I freaked… help me anyone please!
    Also, some background, we were together for 2 yrs, he was the first bf and first man I trusted after a rape when I was 16, so I love him even though he kind of was a jerk when I told him abt the rape. I can’t stop thinking of him. please help

    Tuesday, 26 February 2013 @ 2:03am

  670. 670: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Tara – Please, please, please get professional help at a school clinic, or somewhere for your obsession with this man. It will only get worse with the next man and then the next. Going strictly by your letter, you have no sense of yourself, no self-esteem, and no understanding of how relationships work. AND this may be because of the rape, for which you need professional intervention. Do NOT allow yourself to be in any kind of contact with this man. Please get a therapist who specializes in your issue, and then slowly start to Circular Date using my Tools. I send you love, and put my arms around you through space, and hope you will follow my advice and start focusing on yourself and developing your own inner strength instead of looking for a rescuer out there. Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 26 February 2013 @ 8:02am

  671. 671: TaraNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori,
    Thanks for you for your reply, I know I won’t be as bad with other guys because I tried dating but I couldn’t because I knew I wasn’t OK. I know I have bad self esteem and it is because of him how he treated me and because of the rape. I just don’t know how to let go of him. I wake up wanting to hear from him, I miss him so much. I love him. I have this problem where I care about what he thinks about me, and if he will talk to me or not. I will try not to contact him.
    But sometimes I feel like that is what love is, that is how I am suppose to be treated. Was this my fault??
    Did I ruin a chance at a friendship? I feel really hurt still.

    Thank you for your reply, it means a lot. I defiantly want to work on me right now, not find anyone.

    Tuesday, 26 February 2013 @ 3:34pm

« Back to Home