Evan Marc Katz and I recorded a GREAT interview last week (it’ll be out in August in my Monthly Interview Series…) – he really, truly is a passionate champion for women, and I love his firmness and dedication to making relationships simple and do-able.
After the interview we wrote each other, and it turned into a discussion about our differing ideas about the whole “Boyfriend/Girlfriend” agreement that I don’t like, and Evan honors…So here’s the discussion:
Such fun seeing you and having our interesting conversation… I’m honored that you choose me to be part of your interview series and we’re preparing a special “Rori Raye” page on www.EvanMarcKatz.com for your listeners…
Evan – thank you so much for the interview – I was SO impressed…and you sort of gave me a little EMK to work with myself….I think of you this way:
Passionate champion of women.
You will not let us fail.
You take no bullshit, allow no bullshit – there are very, very few gray areas.
If you do things the right way, in the right order, you will not fail.
AND – most important – your power is in walking away. I have a “tool” I call the “Walkaway” – but it doesn’t have the force of your firm message, and because I’m mostly an “inner game” coach I tend not to be forceful – so having YOU be forceful is a very great thing – very inspiring – good to refer clients to you.
Very nice words and I’m appreciative that you see me that way. I don’t mean to be abrasive, nor do I even think of myself as black and white, but I do firmly believe in what I say and stand on it as a form of truth – not merely my opinion about how things SHOULD be, but an observation about how they ARE – about what WORKS.
I didn’t meant to put down Circular Dating; all I wanted to do was illustrate that if a woman pulled that on ME, I’d be out the door. Other men might stick around, but they’re likely to be men who are a) blinded by lust and willing to put up with an unreasonable compromise (“I commit; you date around until we’re married), or b) guys who are so WEAK that they are not likely to command respect from the women who insist on CDing in front of them.
While I understand the thinking behind it – creating abundance, diversifying your risk, building ego – it’s not something I could advocate to my own readers, if you see where I’m coming from.
Evan – I really, really like your work, attitude and everything about it. Circular Dating is not really about “dating” – it’s a therapeutic technique you use with everyone – man, woman, child – so it’s more the “keeping your options open” where the disagreement is…
I think we could likely come closer if we tried – but I like the difference here! I think your no-nonsense approach is gold!
I think a part of the problem is that I’m an “inner game” way of working…and you’re more the “outer game” – I’m the one who helps a woman stay sane and not go all insecure while boyfriend turns to husband – in other words – your wife would never need me.
She had it together…but most women I know and work with (and I’m one of those women) – can’t really handle a relationship that’s in “limbo” – especially if they want children and are already in their 30′s.
There are attentive men out there who are good boyfriends but still quite difficult, and are actually hiding that they’re non-commit-able or still in love with their ex or have a thing for another woman in town – because they don’t really know it themselves.
“Keeping my options open” can simply mean you NEVER shut down your options until you feel ready to do so – rather than by some kind of rules….
Sure there’s room for movement here – but I really do like your firmness…so I don’t care if we get closer in thought!
And I know it’s no consolation to someone who feels “insane” when a relationship is in limbo, but the BEST way to make the guy WANT to commit to you is to NOT freak out, NOT talk about where things are going, NO push for commitment, and just as importantly, NOT openly date other guys, which undermines all sense of trust and the feeling that he’s somehow special.
Men and women aren’t all that different, and if you found out your boyfriend was “keeping his options open” until marriage, you’d probably feel pretty upset. I’m not sure why it would work any differently for the man who’s on the receiving end of Circular Dating.
The good news is that by my “rules” (and I hate that word), you don’t have to wait long to find out where you stand. If he’s not your boyfriend in 2-3 months MAX, you’re OUT the door. Usually, if you look at successful relationships, that choice is made in the first 4-6 weeks, tops. So if you can play it cool until then and then walk if the relationship isn’t escalating (he doesn’t call every day, he doesn’t leave his weekends open for you, he doesn’t take down his profile, he doesn’t refer to you as his girlfriend, he doesn’t integrate you into his life, he doesn’t make you feel safe, etc.)
From Me – Of course I get the last word…for now…
I just love this discussion…and what it points up MOST for me is the difference between a man coach/therapist and a woman coach/therapist.
Evan can see things I can’t.
He can experience things I can’t, and come to conclusions from a different place I do.
And yet – it’s also true that he can’t see with a woman’s eyes and feel with a woman’s feelings. And this isn’t just because he’s a man – but because he’s Evan and sees and thinks and feels and perceives as Evan.
Same for me.
What’s so great about this is that you have us BOTH!
You get the firm, no-nonsense boundaries and help saying “No” from Evan, and you get the inner beefing up, the support, the tools to allow yourself to be vulnerable and available to Love.
Let me know how you feel about all this!
You can get Evan’s amazing (I wish I’d written every one of them) free newsletters and take a look at his ebook “Why He Disappeared” right here at www.EvanMarcKatz.com.