Friends With Benefits Stinks

Here’s a comment from Regina – it’s so powerful, I felt so passionate about my answer because it’s so at the core of all women’s problems in love that I’m reprinting it whole and then letting fly:

“Rori, Please HELP. I am so lost and feel so alone. I have been dating Robert for 4 years and you could say we have lived together all this time. We both have our own place, but from the beginning he always wanted me with him. SO I came to his place every day after work and stayed there on weekends. I had a key to his place and he has one to mine. I would get off before him and he wanted me to come on over and make myself at home and wait for him.

He always made sure he was home right after work and we would eat dinner and then he would help with the dishes and then we would sit together and watch tv or a movie. Then we would get up and shower together washing each others backs and making love afterward and then falling asleep in each others arms.

It was the best 4 years of my life and on weekends when he had his kids we spent all the time together like a family. Then a month-and-a-half ago out of the blue he started telling me he was going to go out with some guys from work and then he would come home to me very drunk.

I would try to guilt him into not going. Which just made him mad at me. I know that was wrong. I finally just stopped since it didn’t help and then the parties stopped 4 weeks ago and then I woke up one morning a month ago for work and then he kissed me good bye like always and told me he loved me and would see me tonight for dinner.

Then like clock work he called me around lunch time and while we were talking he just told me he wanted to break up and that he needed space. But he loved me and wanted to keep me in his life as his friend, because he sees me as his best friend.

I was crushed and tried to make him change his mind. It didn’t work. Then a few days later he came by to fix some things he knew needed fixing and we talk and he asks if I was willing to be friends and to be exclusive sexually.

I was desperate not to lose him, so I agreed. And I would see him every other night and he would come by, spend some time watching TV with me, holding me on the couch and kissing me and we would make love and he would stay for an hour or more and then kiss me good bye and go home.

I know he went home because I would drive by and check a little later and also in the morning to make sure there wasn’t anyone else there.

I haven’t found another car there and he is always home. Then the other night I saw him at a going-away party for a friend of ours and we ended up coming back to my place and making love and him sleeping over. I became curious and wondered if there was another woman and looked at his cell phone text messages and calls. ( only friends) He woke up and caught me and was so mad and left.

I haven’t seen him for 3 days. And then I see him at the gym (we work out together once a week) and he showed up because he knew I needed help with the free weights. He played around with me some and gave me a few hugs, but he didn’t try to kiss me like he use to.

Please Rori help me win him back. I know I shouldn’t have invaded his privacy but I was so desperate to know he wasn’t with another woman. I am so scared I lost him for good. Which is hard because I see him at the fire department we both volunteer at twice a week.

I know he loves me because of what we have been through, but my insecurities keep messing things up, because I have been cheated on by an ex-husband and ex-fiance in my past. I desperately want to find a way for him to return and spend a life with him and his children.

Regina”

Regina – you aren’t going to like this.  It’s tough love, so don’t read if you don’t want to hear it.

You’re in a friends with benefits situation, and you’ve been there a long, long time.

The “losing” of him (if you ever actually “had” him, and I don’t believe you did) happened a long time ago.

He’s long gone.

Some men don’t need more than what he has with you right now.  There may not be another woman. There may be many other women.  There may not be another woman for years.  Makes no difference.  He may never be into ANY woman. He may frequent prostitutes for all you know. Every time you sleep with him you are physically endangering yourself (I hope you’re using condoms).

Here’s the Truth: He’s not into you. This is what the movie “He’s Just Not That Into You” is about – and I suggest you see it (perhaps rent it and watch it over and over and over again until you get it the way the characters finally do).

Here’s what I want you to do, and if you decided to read this – I know all the women on this site will help you to stay strong:

1. Drop him out of your life. Completely.  NO CONTACT.

This means – no gym unless you’re sure he’s not there – best thing to do is take a month’s free trial at another gym, perhaps some interesting dance classes, something new, but if you can’t, then make sure you go when he’s NOT going to be there.

Same with the fire department.  Take a month off, or make SURE he’s not going to be there.

Yes – he will complain.

He will show up on your doorstep.  He will call you.  He will try to belittle you, he will call you crazy, he will get angry, he will try to make your life a hell until you start sleeping with him again and being his friend.

You’re going to have to be very, very strong and tell him this:

“I feel so bad, so vulnerable, so lost and sad.  I feel like I haven’t taken care of myself.  I can’t handle seeing you.  It feels too bad.  I can’t be your friend, and I don’t want to be your friend until I no longer feel attached to you.  So please don’t call me again, or come over.”

And if he DOES call, or shows up at your home – I suggest strongly that you hang up the phone, slam the door before he says ANYTHING.  If you need protection, call the police.

Yes – I’m totally serious here.

You are – (and I’m going to start a series about this, because I use this harsh terminology with my clients all the time – it’s very helpful to see it from this perspective) – you are a JUNKIE.

He is like the needle you can’t wait to stick in your arm.

You’re giving him your body, your heart, your friendship.  And for what?  For the thrill he gives you when he’s with you.

Same with heroin.

It makes you high, and then it destroys your life.  But you can’t let go of wanting the “fix.”  He is your “fix.”

Regina – I want you to take a square look at what is really happening here – a “nice and friendly” version of the classic “booty call,” and then, I want you to….

…DATE!

Every single man who even looks at you kindly, I want you to smile back at him.  I want you to take every invitation you get to anywhere.  I want you out of the house and in the company of some man.

I want you to experience what it feels like to be with a man who is not like heroin.  Yeah, maybe a boring man, maybe a quiet man, maybe a not-so-sexy man, maybe a man you can’t or won’t fall in love with.

This man is not toxic in himself.  He may be a very nice man.  But he’s heroin for you.  There is no “easing out of this.”  Cold turkey is your only option here.

Please get started Circular Dating this minute, get a support system in place (blog here night and day if it helps you – we’re here 24/7, and living all over the world on this site), get at least my ebook so you get the basics of what you need to do here.

Now – if he ever should show up and want more than friends with benefits – you can still be easily fooled.  So you have to get yourself in a place where you are dating so many men, you can handle him being one of them, should you so choose.  In my experience – when you get to that point you will no longer be interested in him.

So – this is your plan, should you choose to accept it.

If not – and this is your choice, and a choice I don’t recommend -  you can use as many of my Tools as you can get and practice with this man.  But the first Tool is always around “Boundaries” – and right now, your body and heart must be “off limits” to him.

Regina – if you decide to get on your own side, instead of working against yourself and your life – I KNOW you can do it.  I KNOW you can have what you want.

Your task is to rebuild your self-esteem in the company of men who WANT to be with you, who want to make you happy, who want to give you what YOU want. It’s very difficult to lift yourself up in the company of a man who always makes you feel bad.

What’s going on for you here is something we’ve ALL been through.  And now it’s ENOUGH.  Enough is enough. Save yourself.

We’re all here to support you.

Love, Rori

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121 Comments to “Friends With Benefits Stinks”

  1. 1: MariaNo Gravatar says:

    First post…but l think this post is too serious here. l have a someone l know in my network who got HIV from similar kind of situation.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:17pm

  2. 2: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    first post. i feel confused. ?

    i feel confused. same thing could have happened in a marriage. how is being married going to prevent someone being there for four years and then umph one daye changes his mind. ?

    i feel confused.

    how was she a booty call? she was a girlfriend and then she was a booty call.

    i feel confused.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:23pm

  3. 3: JaneNo Gravatar says:

    Regina, I’ve been there. And thank god it was only 2 years. The darkest two years of my life…I was absolutely shattered. The longer I stayed with him, the worse my self-esteem became. 2 years of my life, WASTED.
    Be strong. Listen to Rory.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:23pm

  4. 4: JaneNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry to spell your name wrong, Rori.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:24pm

  5. 5: MariaNo Gravatar says:

    Just for the correction – the person l know carries the virus, l hope l made myself correct, however, as in the world we live in, we must be very careful, not only caring about out soul and spirit, but there are more deeper things to consider. lm not saying that there might be danger in this particular post, however as Rori pointed that out, it is important consideration.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:25pm

  6. 6: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    ok i actually feel i am living in a different reality here. what am i missing? i thought i must have missed something so i reread the post but the guy is not sleeping with other women. YET. but i feel confused by maria’s response about hiv. and rori’s condom response and basically the whole thing. what in the heck. it just sounds like a change of heart on the man’s part. happens Everyday.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:30pm

  7. 7: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    and yes i would do what rori suggests.definitely. force yourself to move forward. but i still feel confused about the intense reaction to the situation. girlfriend trap (which was filling her needs for four years) and then change of heart by man.

    and also how does being married prevent this.? being a self loving goddess prevents this. but

    i don’t know.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:35pm

  8. 8: MariaNo Gravatar says:

    AG, as Rori mentioned this: He may frequent prostitutes for all you know. Every time you sleep with him you are physically endangering yourself (I hope you’re using condoms)….reminded me the situation l know. lm not saying it is everyday case, and AG,please dont let yourself discouraged by your journey so far.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:40pm

  9. 9: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    alot of men could be frequenting prostitues for all anybody knows. i just feel really confused by reading the post. things ended it’s time to move on. if she stays now she is asking for some serious serious pain. maybe that’s what rori is saying and i just am not reading it in the intention it was written. or maybe my brain is weird today. or maybe it’s triggering me in some unconscious unknown way.?

    thanks for the support maria. u stay strong on your journey too. :)

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 10:59pm

  10. 10: MariaNo Gravatar says:

    good, AG, now make yourself a nice cup of tea and put some sugar in it and relax:). Where l am there is a morning and lm making myself ready for work. Youre doing great AG!:)

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 11:09pm

  11. 11: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    here’s what i understand. regina INVESTED in this man and fell into the GIRLFRIEND TRAP. it sounds like neither of them really had much outside interests but maybe they did. it sounds like regina made this man the center or her world. it sounds like there was never really much of a commitment from the man. just a matter of convenience. regina on the other hand probably thought they were moving towards marriage even though such a conversation may never have taken place.

    then out of the blue the man opts out. maybe he had an affair? maybe he had a gay affair? maybe he was just on a four binge of booze and sex? maybe it was just booze?

    it seems there are alot of missing pieces here that only the man really knows.

    i would walk away. the man isn’t even in love with regina.

    ok. so now i feel less confused and far more understanding of the drastic reaction rori had to regina’s letter. i had to break it down for myself.

    yes. regina. absolutely start working rori’s tools and circular date. ASAP!!!! That situation feels very Not Good.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 11:10pm

  12. 12: CarenzaNo Gravatar says:

    Regina my heart goes out to you -

    I feel sad when I think about how much we have all been willing to put up with.

    Rori thank you for your passion – and your honest truthful words.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 11:41pm

  13. 13: AnnNo Gravatar says:

    Maybe I need to reread several times too because I’m missing something. I can see Regina is obsessed with him. I can see she’s needs to focus on herself and needs to cut him out of her life while builds her self esteem and becomes a goddess. But I missed where she caught him doing anything wrong ie.. meaning cheating.

    I’m confused by Rori’s strong reaction here.

    Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 11:58pm

  14. 14: TracyNo Gravatar says:

    wow,now this is a post i can totally relate to…
    I feel sad for Regina and i feel caught up in the same trap…Rori is so right,about the addictive part especially.
    I loved what she said about the the guy being there showing you all this affection then puff…he’s gone…it’s a like getting a dose of a drug bit by bit then as she said it destroys you..
    I feel that its harder when you are in the situation to actually realise it..i remember repeating the same words regina said about wanting the man back,the fact that i loved him so much…but it was plain to see the guy just wanted friendship…
    well i tried putting him in the circle as i circular date but then again i feel it makes it worse,i feel that its better to go cold turkey once again as rori said…
    This blog really helps especially the days when you wake up and all the sad feelings and nasty voices are up on you,because it helps put you back in perspective..
    I love the latest posts because they are speaking to me more deeply about my current situation and i am learning so much..

    Hugs,

    Tracy

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 12:55am

  15. 15: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    He can’t be cheating if he was never committed.

    I feel triggered. It’s reminding me of my own imaginary relationship.

    I like the words Rori used for what to say to the guy. I freaking had a 4 year imaginary relationship with a guy I thought was my best friend in like a stellar cosmic way… and he even had girlfriends throughout this time. Althought to be fair (to me) I had boyfriends too. I tried to move on. Now I’m still wishing he would come back around. Maybe he will.

    OHHH. I have a cool story:

    This morning I went to hang out with my neighbor, who I used to like since 8 years ago before he was my neighbor. Now I feel annoyed by him because I feel uncomfortable like I am being taken advantage of around him. So it came up again and I said I feel treated unfairly. He even yelled and said “youre not worth me arguing with” and (I think he was being triggered from arguing with his gf or baby’s mom) and said that “this is why he doesn’t argue with females.” I said silence…. then later said “I feel upset” he’s like well you know what guess how I feel… but I felt so mad A tear started rolling down my cheek… and then he said you know what well even though you’re selfish I’m still going to share with you (we were arguing about sharing something). I felt SO SURPRISED. I thought the interaction was going badly but he totally caved. I even stayed in the car still upset and he called me to come out. And I wound up hanging out at his garage/music studio for longer. Probably too long because at one point after some more men had come over he asked me if “without any rudeness would I be able to excuse myself” I said ok because I really felt amused and just shocked at even how things had turned in my favor earlier. Guess being asked to leave can happen if leaning forward and hanging out at his house. It was really interesting practice. I feel kind of triumphant. And he even tried to guilt trip me saying Ok but I see what kind of person you are. So I thought good, see that I am the kind of person who doesn’t allow herself to be taken advantage of (instead of oh no he thinks I’m selfish).

    Also I hung out with another guy friend of mine who is kind of a little brother type friend. And he was adivsing me to not let myself avoid a relationship. Because I am attracted to the wrong thing. And I said I’m looking to get married and mostly for a guy that’s going to pay for dinner every time. And he said that’s not going to work someone will get mad. And I said no because it’s not how it sounds, that is the least of what I expect. He said I’m going to be alone thinking like that. And I said ok well I’m trying to be self sufficient. And he said I don’t want you to miss on relationship. Relationship is compromise. You can’t always expect a guy to pay. What do you give in return… I said I’m beautiful and lovely. He said doesn’t count. And I said well that’s because you’re not married or ready to be married. I want a guy who is ready. He said it’s not going to work like that (I don’t believe him, I CAN have what I want even though it sounds petty like paying for my dinner on a date).

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:08am

  16. 16: TracyNo Gravatar says:

    Let me add that,from my experience,when i felt so lost and confused about my X,and the fact that he only wanted friendship,circular dating helped me shift the focus off him and focus on myself,so the next time i saw him around or bumped into him i was ina better place and i didn’t feel the need to lean forward or run after him.
    I feel that this is why its important to cut communication because almost all the time the guy does come back,and i feel that when he does i need to love myself enough to actually see if i really want him back or not.
    it feels that the more you take care of yourself the easier it will be to actually see the reality of the situation and make a good desicion..it takes time though and it’s difficult and for my part,its opened up past fears and sadness all sorts of feelings that i had stuffed inside from my past but i am glad i am growing more and more into a goddess and loving this new me…

    Hugs,

    Tracy

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:11am

  17. 17: ssgrenNo Gravatar says:

    I seem to be stuck in a similar situation as Regina. I can totally related to the addiction analogy. After many many years together, he suddenly needed “space”. Since then, he initiates contact on his terms, and I always give in. I feel hurt and confused after every meeting, yet it feels so right to be with him. I feel a connection.
    He is going through a depressive period in his life — but it seems that he is only showing that side to me. With others, he appears to be normal. What can I do? Help me, I feel awful.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 3:10am

  18. 18: DeenaNo Gravatar says:

    I am not understanding the intensity of the advice either?

    It doesn’t sound like he was cheating or anything but more like he was lukewarm and was fine with a permanent WW thing.

    I don’t understand why he broke up and then started the fwb thing which sounds identical to how it was the previous 4 years except for the title?

    I think plenty of us have continued to see someone thinking it was leading to marriage but he was content with things the way they are. The girlfriend trap.

    I used to think exclusivity was a good thing to have from a guy but not anymore. It means nothing. I also think guys like it because they don’t have to do anything. They have a steady sex partner locked down. They don’t have to compete.

    I think all it means now a days is that you are sexually exclusive and that’s it. It has nothing to do with where the relationship is headed.

    I know my 82 year old mother said the only time girls got exclusive or went steady with a boy was when it was seriously getting to marriage and there was no hanky panky either.

    Now it seems like guys have figured out saying let’s be exclusive to get into a girl’s pants and she thinks he is interested in getting to know her leading to marriage. They guy is content to stay in these “relationships” for so many years and then either move on to another long term relationship or marry the next girl.

    Exclusivity never stopped anyone from finding someone else. You see it all the time. The guy meets someone else but doesn’t bother to tell the girlfriend he is with and waits to see which thing will pan out and then dump or disappear.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 5:09am

  19. 19: MariaNo Gravatar says:

    yeah, but why do men do this. Do they know i from the sart that fir instance this woman is just for casual and the other one is marrying kind

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:07am

  20. 20: PriscillaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok, I’m with you guys on this one. I’m a little lost on the strong reaction from Rori. I totallly understand the “booty call” thing. But what exactly did the guy do exept withdraw and maybe become insensitive to her feelings? It sounds to me like he got scared and gave the typical response most men give when they aren’t ready for a serious relationship. He may be toxic and can’t DO a relationship. I know none of his reactions were great and I am certainly not defending him! No way! Why couldn’t she just lean back and circular date? Practice the tools. Maybe Regina was overfunctioning because she didn’t mention her own hobbies and interest. They pretty much did everything together. She also said they each have their own place. She could have went back to her place, stop being so available and set some basic boundaries for herself and him. Does anyone get what I’m saying here? Maybe some pieces are missing for me, too.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:30am

  21. 21: ErikaNo Gravatar says:

    Amen, Rori.

    Regina, I would encourage you to savor the crisp clean feeling of saying “no thanks” and walking away. It feels liberating. It feels empowering. It feels like you’re taking your life back into your own hands.

    We here on Rori’s site never settle for less than what we deserve, which is everything.

    Love,
    Erika

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:55am

  22. 22: ansNo Gravatar says:

    At first i admit that because of the title i was expecting a lot judgemental rambelings about open relationships and how they are “manipulative” and win/lose and all the nonsense.
    But from what i got from your post was that the type of relationship and expectations should be clear from the start, and i agree no one should remain silent for what they want and demand the best for themselves, evrything should be win/win; or else its just a toxic relationship. What i hope is that no one should fall in condamning other people’s choices calling them “dirty” or “stinky” just because you don’t adopt them, its just immature.
    best wishes.
    cheers.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 9:15am

  23. 23: MarkNo Gravatar says:

    Male lurker here. Typically agree with Rori and find her advice intriguing, but in this instance, I don’t really get it either. The guy spent every day with her FOR FOUR YEARS. And for now, it appears he’s not seeing anyone else. That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a “booty call” to me (and trust me, I’ve had many).

    Why not ask him why he’s pulling away? Maybe he has a lot of stuff going on in his life. Maybe he’s going through some emotional issues. Or maybe he’s just not happy with the relationship but is too nervous to bring it up (we men tend to bottle up our feelings you know).

    If he doesn’t want to be exclusive and Regina’s uncomfortable with that, that’s fine, but at least give him the benefit of the doubt. You’re operating on very limited information here.

    I see this “My partner doesn’t give me what I want, so forget ‘em” attitude a lot in men and women, and I don’t really get it. Running away without actually communicating seems very weak and selfish to me.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 9:45am

  24. 24: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    I completely see what Rori is saying. The clue here is, that Regina agreed to see him casually, at his convenience just so she wouldn’t lose him, even though it was clear he was not committed to her, even told her he wanted to break up. It’s a win win for him, a lose lose for her. He gets to have her at his ebck and call, still mad for him, and he can come and go as he pleases, no expectations, which I’m afraid, results in no respect for her, no relationship. We can only expect aman, any man to treat us with high regard if we value ourselves.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 11:10am

  25. 25: TracyNo Gravatar says:

    I feel sad for regina and i was almost in the same exact same position as regina,i guess reading this blogs has really helped me slowly refocus on me…..it felt awful,it stil does
    today i made the mistake of leaning forward with the guy and i actually felt it….i don’t feel resentment for myself,i love my failures and mistakes and what i learnt and felt today as i leaned forward is that i deserve better…i felt that i feel bad when i see him walk away when he doesn’t call me so i am looking the other way and i am going to keep away from this person whose making me feel bad…i asked my self why am i here talking to him feeling bad about it..?
    i feel that my level of difficulty is slowly building…
    i am stil far behind but i feel encouraged that i am starting to focus on myself and actually feeling that i can have this great relationship and meet this great guy who can love me and cherish me and treat me like the queen that i am…..
    I feel that the kind of relationship i have come to learn i can have,this guy cannot offer it to me…sad to say he’s not available to do it…I just need to find it elsewhere…
    I feel that feeling loved and taking care of myself enough to attract real love and passion requires working on the inside and being vulnerable,expressing my feelings,circular dating,opening myself up to men around me,being strong on the inside and soft on the outside….it feels great to be practising…i feel hopeful i feel like a goddess…baby steps..

    Hugs
    Tracy

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 12:29pm

  26. 26: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Mark – Welcome – and Thank You for stepping in here – I love hearing from a man – please keep commenting here, it’s so helpful – and I especially love being contradicted. I’m going to turn your comment and my answer into a post…

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:19pm

  27. 27: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    i feel intrigued we have male lurkers on siren island. hee hee.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:23pm

  28. 28: LizNo Gravatar says:

    Occassional lurker showing up for a comment update…because I have a classic as-Rori-calls-it situation unfolding with my Ex:

    After 1.5 years we broke up in January – I really wanted it to work, but he was in a place where he couldn’t “do” a relationship at the level I wanted and deserve…we’ve had no contact since split (major willpower on my part). I only in the last few weeks have successfully been able to circular date (of the “in person” type…not folks at stores, etc) via Match. So, as Rori would call it, as my energy and focus moves elsewhere and off the heartache of our split, there it is — last week he shows up in my email inbox with an “innocous” email, then found him in my “who’s viewed me” Match page, and then this morning the email:
    “are we ever going to talk again? i know where you stand…to quote you exactly to inquiry about being friends… “$#@ that, I have enough friends!!!” i miss and think about you all of the time. That is not say that i want to continue to waste your time and/or make your life miserable. you deserve better!”

    despite reading this blog, I was still surprised to see it sitting in my inbox at 8.30am today….and, then 3 hours later when I hadn’t replied he calls me at work because he felt I was ignoring the email! Men are seriously weird, if not amusing. I will admit just a bit ago I did send a reply to it…which I feel somewhat disappointed about, but I did write it in the “I feel / truth message” wording as best I could…including that I feel unclear about what the email was intended to convey.

    While perhaps not perfect executing the Rori advice, I know that I reacted differently to this development than I would have before becoming acquainted with this blog…and that I feel proud about. And, in a few hours I’m off to a second date within a few days with a different guy tonight. Feels good!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:41pm

  29. 29: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    The point here is, that Regina is not in the relationship she wants.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:42pm

  30. 30: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    awesome liz! yes, good point linda g! xoxoxo!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:45pm

  31. 31: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    I seem to be missing something too – in fact I felt really angry when I read Rori’s response. I recognise that the ‘friends wb’ thing is not a good place to be – and Regina has realised this – but I feel utterly puzzled as to Rori’s strongly-worded assertive advice. I feel particularly upset at the idea that she lost him ‘long ago’ – if I was in Regina’s situation and read that, I would feel devastated.

    I feel disappointed and confused on this occasion.

    Where is Rori’s ‘Third Way’??

    btw I feel pretty amazing these days thanks to all the work I’ve done on myself using Rori’s tools. But this post….????

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 1:59pm

  32. 32: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    I feel pleased and interested in Mark’s view and any other male lurkers around. And amused by the expression ‘lurker’ :)

    Lurker Siren of Lazy Leopardsville

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:03pm

  33. 33: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Relationships should not be wholy based on what he wants, when he wants. We are not here to be thankful for taking crumbs, random attention is not better than no attention. It’s demeaning and self punishing.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:07pm

  34. 34: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    I feel irritated… should????? I don’t want to read ‘should’ or ‘should not’.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:11pm

  35. 35: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Ans, Welcome, and thank you for the insightful comment. You’re absolutely right. I should have titled it “Friends With Benefits FEELS Stinky” instead of labeling it.

    What I’m all about is feeling what you feel – supporting your feelings, your going into them and expressing them – and friends with benefits does indeed feel “stinky” and a whole lot worse to the person who feels more than friendship. Love, Rori

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:16pm

  36. 36: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    I feel badly I irritated you by using the word should. I feel embarrassed. I was trying to express my feeling that relationships involve two parties that want to be heard and that want to be satisfied in getting their needs met. Otherwise, it feels all one sided.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:31pm

  37. 37: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    I feel warm toward you, Linda G, I get my trigger on BIG style over the word ‘should’ – and I don’t want to make you feel bad or embarrassed!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:37pm

  38. 38: GigiNo Gravatar says:

    What I’m getting from Rori’s original post, is that Regina is willing to accept whatever Robert is willing to give. She is now feeling quite miserable. She wants it all however, Robert has made a decision about what he wants and seems to want whatever they have on his terms only. Regina will continue to be unhappy and all of those bad feelings will only push Robert further away and make her more desperate for him. It is a lose/lose situation at this point for Regina.

    Perhaps the reason circular dating would not work well for her at this point is because of the length of the relationship and the fact that Robert has made changes without interest in what Regina wants. There is a history of him calling the shots and (for what she posted) Regina agreeing to it. I am curious as to what Rori will continue to post about this.

    And to Regina…I have much empathy for you!!! I hope that you will find the strength to take care of you!

    Gigi

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:40pm

  39. 39: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    and I too feel a relationship is about both feeling satisfied – in fact ‘communication’ is my theme at the moment.

    I’m feeling a difference between ‘holding back’ and ‘leaning back’. I’ve been holding back sometimes when I thought I was leaning back. I made a decision to worry less about exact words – cuz then I end up in my head – and trust the words to flow from my centre. It feels good and playful a lot of the time, and at other times scary. And sometimes I get it wrong too, and don’t feel the big panic I used to get.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:42pm

  40. 40: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Heartbeat. I feel good we connected on this issue, and it feels good to hear you say such a nice thing to me.
    My word is “can’t”. Can’t have, can’t do,can’t be, any word that presents limitations.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:42pm

  41. 41: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Gigi, Welcome and thank you for weighing in here – I agree with what you say, and yes – I’ll keep posting about this, and thank you all for so much energy around the topic…Love, Rori

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:43pm

  42. 42: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    I am also hoping that leaning back will become second, no first nature. Sometimes I feel like doing all these tools actually keeps me in my head.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:46pm

  43. 43: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    Me too, Linda G – I feel amazed at us! A bit of fire feels wonderfully invigorating :) xx

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:46pm

  44. 44: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    Ah yes and me too on the tools comment, Linda G – yeah it’s like learning to drive… thank goddess I don’t think about driving when I drive or I’d crash – but I had to practice a lot – hey just realised we have to drive on the big road even when we are learning. Hmmmm I feel v satisfied with that analogy lol!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:49pm

  45. 45: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah, Heartbeat, especially ’cause it’s when I’m driving that I listen to all of Rori’s programs!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:51pm

  46. 46: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    Lol!! Yeah to driving! Driving makes me feel v happy – it’s my therapy. I listen to my Rori programmes on my headphones as I drift off to sleep. Subliminal learning….

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:56pm

  47. 47: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Speaking of driving, I just had a conversation with a guy who wants me to drive to NYC, an hour away for a first meting. He lives 10 minutes from NY. I told him I would feel more comfortable if he came out here. He said but, so you don’t want to come here/ You should be able to find parking. I said I don’t want to drive to Ny I feel better when men come to see me. PS it’s a stand-off. This is the 3rd time this guy has tried to get me to drive to him. at what point do i tell him to step off, or do I just stick to my biundaries and see if he ever comes around.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:12pm

  48. 48: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    yes linda! I try to keep using feeling messages as much as I can. the best time is when i am TRIGGERED!!!!!!! yes! it’s really hard for me to stay open but i think that is key!

    be open
    feeling messages with truth statements
    i don’t wants
    stay open
    don’t expect to be disappointed

    BE SURPRISED~~!!!!!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:17pm

  49. 49: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    i want someone to practice with. I seem to have pushed all my men away. :(

    come trigger alias girl!!! i want more chances to stay open!!!!!!!!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:19pm

  50. 50: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Alias Girl
    wouldn’t it be fun if we could trade frogs?
    you know what they say, one goddess’ frog is another goddess’ prince.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:52pm

  51. 51: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    Just got another email from my fantasy email lover. somebody throw cold water on my face!

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 7:53pm

  52. 52: ErikaNo Gravatar says:

    There are some things a woman simply cannot compromise about … and keep her self-respect.

    Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 8:34pm

  53. 53: LinmayuNo Gravatar says:

    I have to say I agree completely with Rori’s tough love. Augh. This man’s basically saying “How about you give me everything and I give you nothing?” Agreeing to that is like placing an order for heartbreak.

    Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 7:01am

  54. 54: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    exactly!
    and boy have I done that! talk about an imaginary relationship…it feels awful

    Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 7:05am

  55. 55: ChanelNo Gravatar says:

    Wow… well I’m glad I’ve read all these posts as I have just had my first “friends with benefits” night with an ex boyfriend.

    The night together was out of this world, and he was super caring. Afterwards, he held me tightly in his arms as I slept.

    But when I asked him if he had missed me while we had been apart, he said “no”, lol! So that kind of says it all… I won’t be doing it again.

    Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 12:00pm

  56. 56: ginaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel confused. How can we simultaneously be on the lookout for signs of abusive behavior, and personal addiction while also allowing ourselves to surrender? I definitely resist vulnerability – but it just seems like good sense.

    Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 9:46pm

  57. 57: heatherNo Gravatar says:

    WOW! powerful wake up call! in my 5+ years long relationship with my beau, i see some similar elements of Regina’s experience. Yes, it stinks, it feels bad; and yet – we don’t want to let go.

    And I’ve had the benefit of working with Rori for a couple of years, working with the tools, experimenting from time to time with the circular dating – though never really putting my whole heart into that because of emotional connection with beau.. I have seen the beau waver from coming very close and withdrawing and back again. I find myself DREAMING of what it would be like to be with a man who truly, steadfastly wants to be with me… like its his main priority :-) I hear there are men like that out there… and circular dating is how you find them.

    Don’t know if i’m ready to go cold turkey on the beau just yet, but it has felt tempting at times. There were 2 times in my past when I did go “cold turkey” and never looked back… and it felt SO FREEING and relieving to me. The trouble is that now I still find myself for 5 years with a lovely commitment-phobic man – sigh!

    I wish Regina the very best! That she learns the lesson of her FWB guy this time around and attracts and keeps a real guy and has a ball while doing so…

    Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 4:31am

  58. 58: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    i feel alone. i feel contemptuousness for my job and the people around me. i feel like jesus being persecuted and people truly don’t realize what they are doing but it hurts me. so i feel very unjesus in that my ego is still affected. that my ego and mind are ruling my state of peace.

    i feel highly triggered by my job and people around me today. i feel very alone and no one to understand me or to support me or to say yes. you are not crazy. your feelings are valid. this is really going on.

    i felt like this in my childhood. i feel unsure how to remedy this.

    i feel grateful to share this here. i feel very grateful for the few people i have met in my life who have felt Safe for me in an emotional sense. in the sense that they never pruposefully f*cked with me.

    i feel a very heavy sadness as i sit in my cubicle and a great desire to weep and be forever unburdened by these feelings of not feeling safe or cared for. and sometimes persecuted. i feel sick. i feel a very tihght jaw. i feel alone.

    Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 3:27pm

  59. 59: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    i feel very happy to take a vacation from this blog. i do not want to give so much of myself. i do not want to Invest so much of myself and my time and my heart and my intimate feelings anymore. i do not know if i will return. i feel appreciative of all i have learned about myself and all i have gained by being here.

    i feel i am losing more than i am gaining at this point.

    i wish good things for all the sirens.

    Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 5:05pm

  60. 60: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    AG; I feel like I should respond to your pain and expression of frustration, but I don’t want to overstep. I want for you to be able to feel what you feel, without being watched or judged. Even if it’s crummy.
    Your voice is gorgeous, as are you.

    Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 5:22pm

  61. 61: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Oh noo… if Ag goes away that would feel very very very bad. I feel like I must forciblly keep AG posting (trigger).

    This sux. I feel bad. I feel angry.

    Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 9:06pm

  62. 62: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    Oh AG I feel so sad – I love reading your posts.

    Sometimes I take a blog holiday too, because I tend to get in my head about stuff in my relationship instead of practising the tools and just being.

    Sometimes reading gives me more to think about and then I feel confused.

    Sometimes I even rush in and use the advice even when it’s not needed.

    Sometimes I’m so confused between my triggers and what is real.

    Sometimes I feel I always knew how to communicate, and over the years lost my way – that if I just pack everything away and trust all I’ve learned to run in the background, that I will feel and act authentically.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 3:54am

  63. 63: LinmayuNo Gravatar says:

    I feel sad. I am going to miss Alias Girl. But I hope she finds what she is looking for while she is away.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 7:20am

  64. 64: Linda GNo Gravatar says:

    I wonder if this is just the natural order of things. Some of us on this blog are experiencing dramatic stebacks alternating with revelations. It’s exhausting emotionally to get to a place of peace. We are changing ourselves, the way we relate to the world, to men, in a fundamental way. I feel like an aimal that goes into hibernation or a caterpillar that crawls into a cocoon, after days/weeks/months of nourishing ourselves, storing energy, we need to rest so we can emerge renewed and refreshed.
    Alias Girl is so cool, so self aware, she knows she needs time to reflect and renew.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 7:36am

  65. 65: heartbeatNo Gravatar says:

    That’s beautiful, Linda G

    I just went out to buy Twilight and came back instead with Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle, and Everyday Grace by Marianne Williamson.

    I feel the need to hibernate and restore some soul energy.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 8:06am

  66. 66: DocKNo Gravatar says:

    AG – I feel I want to be selfish and say ‘NO DON’T GO’ but I know you need to do what is best for you and I support it. I love the way you “speak” here and make me smile or laugh with you or feel crazy and irritated with you.

    I feel so bad for Regina. It is so easy to see when you are outside looking in – but not so easy to see from inside looking out – maybe why Rori felt need to say strong words.

    When I have been in situations with men that felt “stinky” or “icky” I finally learned to say to myself, “OK, you know you should leave but you’re not ready to. Stop beating up on yourself and recognize that if this is where you need to be right now, be there and forgive yourself.” For some reason, for me it seemed like I tricked myself. Like when I would stop beating up on myself saying, ‘why are you so stupid? why are you here with this guy? walk away!’ and just gave myself permission to stay – I actually became ready to leave – but I also knew that I made myself take the baby steps I needed to get away as well – going out with other friends, reading spiritual stuff, listening to helpful programs and so on.

    Regina is in trouble because she’s so into this guy it’s going to be hard to walk away. I know I’ve been there and many of us have been – we know what we need to do – it’s the doing that is hard.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 11:18am

  67. 67: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    I have started talking and dating 2 other guys and I told Robert that and he seems to be trying to contact me more. Is there no way with your techniques to change things with us?? We did many things together, but I do have my own things. My school and trying out for police department and I also talk and hang out with some of the other fire department people. I’ve noticed since I’ve just said hi and went on with whatever at the fire department and I have started believeing I deserve better and to be chased that he seems to come over to me more. Rori Robert was there for me and took care of me when I had major sinus and deviated septum surgery. He has supported me and helped me and challenged me to suceed in the training process. He cooks for me and did stay with me occasionally. We just always stayed at his place, because it was closer to the fire department and he had cable tv and I don’t as well as we were able to go target shoot on our days off. We had date night and just recently before the break up my son caused a serious problem for Robert that effected his job and everything. My son is bi-polar and he was grounded and Robert came and spent the night at my place to be at my place for the water department to repair lines in my yard and make sure it was done correctly while I was at work. Well my son was grounded and at home and tried to sneak out. Robert caught him and made him go back in and call me. I told him no he couldn’t go to friends and then Robert recieved a fire call and had to leave. SO my son left with friend and got into a physical fight. So instead of admitting that he called the police from my home and told them Robert beat him up.SO Robert was arrested for Domestic Violence and was off work for 6 months pending the outcome ( he works at Prison) My son and the boy confessed to fighting. But the DA’s assistant wouldn’t drop charges and Robert couldn’t afford to go to court so he had to take a plea to lesser charge . But since he took a plea he just weeks before he broke up with me and started partying with the guys, his work put him on 5 years probation and no raises or promotions during that time. He told me everytime he sees me many times it brings up the anger towards my son and he didn’t want to take it out on me. That is part of our relationship you don’t know. RORI does this help you understand Robert a little better. I truly believe he is a good man and I just want the ring on my hand. We had talked about a future togther before this happen. I will continue to circular date and With this information maybe you can tell me if we do have a chance of being married. I truly thank you for your help I do feel better about myself from your Modern Siren and Targeting Mr Right. I am waiting for Connecting HEarts to arrive.

    Regina

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 12:46pm

  68. 68: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Regina – I don’t know what to say here. All I heard in your letter was that he beat up your son enough to get on probation for 5 years (and if you’ve watched Rescue Me – well…). I can imagine that this is what threw him for a loop and is causing all this pain – but that just speaks to the weirdness of all this. I know that if anyone laid a finger on my child, no matter what happened (and to me – your son and his difficulties should be your number one priority) – I’d be outta there.

    I so wish you could become attracted to a man who would not hit or hurt your son – no matter what…Love, Rori

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 1:29pm

  69. 69: DeenaNo Gravatar says:

    Regina, there is something missing from the story still. Has your son and this man ever had any physical altercations between them?

    It just seems odd to me that the man would still be charged with this after your son confessed that isn’t what happened.

    For someone to accept lesser charges for something they didn’t do even if having those charges would ruin their career, doesn’t seem right either.

    Still, there is friction between your son and this man.

    I think a good option would be to get things sorted out with your son before getting involved with anyone.

    Another question when did you first become interested in a career in law enforcement?

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:05pm

  70. 70: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Hmm… I feel angry. Sounds like the legal system at work in an icky way.

    Sometimes the DA does not drop domestic violence cases even when the accuser recants, and sometimes people have to plead guilty to stuff they didn’t do.

    When you say he was “off work for 6 months” do you mean he was in jail?

    Sometimes people in jail would much rather plead guilty to a lesser charge and get out of there than to remain incarcerated (if they cannot afford bail) and go to trial (which may take a long time).

    I remember one time my Godbrother had to plead guilty to “terrorist threats” that he was charged with because of yelling at the apartment manager that was in turn yelling at his girlfriend.

    I can see why this man would feel angry at your son for accusing him of something not true and potentially ruining his livelihood (not just career).

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:28pm

  71. 71: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel kinda mad and protective that Rori seems to have misunderstood your letter. In the letter I understand that Regina is saying that her man DID NOT hit her son.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:32pm

  72. 72: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Wow! How did I miss this one? Regina…I was soooo where you are (not the hitting my son thing…that’s something I couldn’t deal with)…but I looked at the text messages and drove by the house and..and..and..blah..blah..blah. It was horrible. I had no self esteem and wasn’t happy at all…but I desperately WANTED to be happy and I thought he was the only way.

    Then I learned to set boundaries and love myself and stand up for myself and demand the best in my life…and most of all (or at least a close second to the boundaries), I took responsibility for my own happiness. I no longer feel like I can’t be happy without someone in my life. Losing my boyfriend would cause sadness, yes…very much so. But then…it would be up to me to find a way to be happy again.

    Anyway, until the thing about hitting the kid, I also didn’t see the need for such a strong reaction to what they guy did…but Regina…what you are doing to yourself by being so obsessed with him…it’ll kill you. I know…I was there…and I hated myself for it.

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 4:49pm

  73. 73: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Oh man! Daria cleared it up…I read it wrong too. The son accused him of beating him up but it didn’t really happy. I’m so sorry about not seeing that right!

    But everything else I wrote and what Rori wrote about him being like a drug…yeah…I stand by that!

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 4:52pm

  74. 74: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Alias Girl, love to you…Rori

    Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 5:14pm

  75. 75: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Regina – Did I get this wrong? Did your man NOT touch your son, but your son accused him? If this is the truth, I so apologize for misreading your comment, and thank you Daria, for catching me.

    Okay – then your situation is completely different, and you’re still not going to like this answer. This man seems like a great friend. He seems, unlike most men, to be absolutely worthy as a friend.

    The thing is – you can’t sleep with him, because that changes the dynamic, and that keeps your hormones going.

    What if you were to take him at his word, and turn him into a friend in your own mind, as best you can, and date other men (no sex) for awhile?

    I know – this is going into dangerous territory if you can’t handle it emotionally – this is like the film “Four Weddings and a Funeral” – where a wonderful woman is in love with Hugh Grant and has remained good friends with him – still hoping he will feel the same way about her…and then he meets Andee MacDowell and the woman has to watch the courtship and the wedding happen. Very, very painful to watch. I would not want to be that woman.

    Anything could happen here. But you’ll have to go the warm friends route without sex if you don’t want to cut off contact, and please no hanging out except at mutual activities and the friendship he offers…If it were me, I’d still limit contact so I could heal while I start dating other men.

    I hope his legal situation improves. Please keep us posted, and I’ll reply to you as I understand your situation more. Love, Rori

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 9:34am

  76. 76: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    No Rori Robert has never laid one finger on my son that is 19. My son said it so I wouldn’t know he left the house when he was grounded. Robert even passed a polygraph exam and they said they didn’t believe he did touch my son. So in away RObert has been punished for doing nothing but trying to help me out.

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 11:55am

  77. 77: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    PS I was sick last night and had to go to the emergency room and found I had a bacterial infection in my kidneys and bladder. they gave me a pain shot and told me I could go. But they wouldn’t let me drive. I called a couple of friends but no one answered, so I called Robert and he came immediately to get me from the hospital and he called today to check on me. DOesn’t that show he does love me more than just a friend to leave a get together with his buddies and come to my aid and then to check on me. I also noticed he drove by my house after he dropped me off a couple of times and he called to check on me. If he didn’t still care why would he drive by? I just think he truly needs to get passed the problems caused from the legal stand point. But I will cut the sex off and time spent with him and will try to circular date. I have a dinner date tonight which I feel so guilty about. But I will go and enjoy and see where it goes. Thank you Rori. I just think I have tried to control him so much before he broke up with me that i need to stop trying to control as you say and just be in the moment. I stop and look back and I did try to make him be with me by guilt trips the few times he went out with the guys when we were together. As well as my checking his text and emails, because I wanted to know everything thing he did and said. Instead of just enjoy the fact he was with me. I have seen a counselor and discovered I was extremely insecure because of past relationships. My first husband slept with my stepsister, my fiance after that slept with my best friend and the husband after that was abusive. So when I met Robert and he just seem to be to good I threw him in the cage as you say on your videos and tried to control him. So I now believe after alot of talking and soul searching I pushed Robert away as well as my son.

    I know now that by me guilting him everytime which were very few when we were together of going out with his buddies without me. I was scared he would be out and find someone better than me. I am slowly feeling better about myself and am starting to believe I am good enough to be loved and a man would be lucky to have me. But I so much want that to be Robert. He showed me what it was like to be treated with respect and love and he took care of me when I was sick and held me when I was sad and I didn’t want to lose it and I actually pushed it away. If there is a chance for us to get back together and me to have the ring I truly want that chance to be proud of who I am and feel I only deserve the best. Your Modern siren has helped me see that. I am going to continue to use them and would love to know if there is a way to have Robert see I am worth being with and marrying. I’ve talked to his mom who is a friend and she even told me that I need to back off and give him some space, because she has talked to him and he truly loves me and said he had even spoke to her about asking me before I became so possesive near the end of our relationship. I know I was to blame for alot of why he left.

    Regina

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 12:26pm

  78. 78: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    My insecurities and trying to control Robert is the main problem. Robert talked to me and told me if I wouldn’t have been so insecure and try to control him we would still be together. I will continue the MOdern Siren and I pray you will tell me if by learning to love myself will help Robert and I end up together? I am ashamed of how I controled him and know I am the one to blame and your videos have helped me to admit this and see how I pushed him away. I need your help to get him back.

    Regina

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 4:11pm

  79. 79: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Regina it feels scary and sad for me to see you beat yourself up and blame yourself.

    the first step is not to blame yourself for mistakes.

    from there you want to go to loving yourself.

    you said this:

    ” would love to know if there is a way to have Robert see I am worth being with and marrying”

    The only way for him to see this is for you to see it in yourself and believe it.

    it sounds simple but it is a journey/process we’re all on.

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 6:29pm

  80. 80: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Regina – men turn around on a dime. Just work on you and your self-love and self-confidence and things will change – but you have to do it for YOU, and not for him. Love, Rori

    Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 6:53pm

  81. 81: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    Rori I will continue to improve how I see myself. Will Connecting Hearts help with my relationship any as well as me useing modern siren and continueing my therapy? I have seen through therapy that past relationships truly made me believe I didn’t deserve to be loved and wasn’t good enough. But I am seeing that I am worth being loved now and I am good enough. I just have to keep knocking those ugly voices out of my head. Thank you for all your help and guidance.

    Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 6:42am

  82. 82: searchingwithinNo Gravatar says:

    I could very well be wrong here, however, I believe the fact that they were in a 1/2 living arrangement for 4 years without anything progressing, that there was never really a relationship that was going anywhere, and therefore a FWB situation, and no commitment.

    Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 2:47pm

  83. 83: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    You are wrong serchingwithin. Robert and I had a wonderful life together in the beginning and we talked about the commitment and then my insecurities from past relationships popped up and slowly destroyed our relationship. I was always trying to control him this last year and I know that is the 2 things I did wrong. I didn’t have faith in us or myself. I have made progress with my therapist and see that I was a major part in the destruction of our relationship. I am just working on improving my self esteem and also learn to not control a man as I was. I also need to find a way while doing this to pull down the wall Robert has put around him and let him see the improvements I’ve made and hopeful let him see what a wonderful catch I am and that he would be crazy to walk a way. See I am thinking positive about my worth and knocking the bad voices in my head back down like Rori said. I just thankful I finally seen how destructive my insecurities were. Unfortunately I didn’t listen the several times Robert told me this last year to put my insecurities in the past, because he loves me and wants to be with me. The bad voices in my head just kept winning making me do stupid things. Checking his cell phone, emails, mail and always finding nothing bad. Except his disappointment that I didn’t trust in us. He truly put up with serveral episodes like this and never left. As well as the guilt trip the last few months when he went camping/hunting with the guys and I guilted him before and during his trip and the time he went out to a bachelor party and I did the same again. He took more than a man that wasn’t in a relationship. I unfortunately found out to late and now I just want the chance to love myself and the chance to love him and be loved in return by Robert. Is that wrong? I don’t feel it is.

    Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 11:57am

  84. 84: ssgrenNo Gravatar says:

    Regina, I really feel for you. I have recently been through a similar experience. My fiance recently broke off our long-term (more than 8yrs) relationship, saying he “needed space”. I have always been insecure about one thing or another, and feel that I have been
    “over-functioning” and “over-compensating” for a long time — probably a huge turn-off.
    However, he too had huge insecurities about certain things.. and I am not sure that he tried to face these..

    Yet, like you, I feel that the greater loss is mine. Like you, I wish that we could move forward into a loving, respectful, and happy relationship together. I am finding it difficult to hear people telling me to “move on” and that there’s someone better out there for me.

    Monday, 13 April 2009 @ 2:45am

  85. 85: HeatherNo Gravatar says:

    I am in a very similar situation. However, with my man, he has always been distant, happy to see me maybe once a week (weekends only), he has told me many times he “doesn’t know what he wants” or “wants space” or some other version of breaking up; then I grieve and hurt and he comes back into my life and acts like everything is fine between us. The distance got worse, he rarely wanted to be affectionate. I think he wanted a friends with benefits situation, BUT wanted me to be exclusive to him at the same time. Everything on his terms, he would only see me when HE wanted to, the only thing that mattered was what he wanted and felt.

    And yet, we have had times where we have bonded so much felt so close, he has been sweet and tender and loving, but it never lasts, then he goes back to being distant or telling me he doesn’t want me.

    I feel for Regina, and I think I am a ‘junkie’ too and he is my fix. I yearn for him. I love him because I know that deep down we can be good together.

    Now we have officially broken up (he had to move away). I have kind of been doing unofficial circular dating, talking to new men, I even kissed two men. But all I could think was that it wasn’t him, the man I love. I told him and he is repulsed by me I think. Now I have ruined any chance of him wanting to be with me.

    But he is visiting the town soon to see his friends and he hinted that maybe after he has finished drinking with his friends we can (possibly) get a hotel room.

    I miss him so much, I think about him all the time, I have cried so much over the 4 years (same as Regina) that we have been together (in an ‘imaginary relationship’ as I realise now).

    What do I do?

    Tuesday, 21 April 2009 @ 5:57am

  86. 86: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    I backed off like you said and he invited me to go swimming with him and his boys last Friday. We swam and played cutting up for 2 hours with the boys and then he asked me to meet them at his parents. Because his mom wanted to see me too. So I did and it was a great visit like old times. Then when we left I thanked him and drove off. He called and asked me to meet them at a resteraunt to eat so I did and then after he asked me over for a movie with the boys. I went and gave the boys gifts i had gotten them for Easter. During the movie he moved over to the couch from the recliner and held me. It was so wonderful and then we watched a second movie. After that the boys gave me hugs and kisses and went to bed. i thanked him and started to leave and he grabbed me and kissed me so passionately I melted and we ended up in the bedroom together. We were totally undressed and kissing when I just broke down crying and I have no idea why and had to tell him I was sorry I couldn’t make love to him because it hurt too much knowing we were not together and this is just a one time thing. He told me he understood and looked hurt. He has been very distant from me now. RORI did I push him away for good because of it? I also yesterday text him several times apologizing for my breakdown and for my past insecurities and that i Loved Him. But he never called or text me back. DID I FINALLY KILL ANY CHANCE???? I have promised myself to not call or text him for at least a month and when I see him at the fire department to just say hi and find someone else to talk to. I just wanted to know DID I KILL the LAST CHANCE I HAD ??? PLEASE RORI HELP!!!!!!!!!!!

    Tuesday, 21 April 2009 @ 6:24am

  87. 87: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Regina – have you been reading these comments about being a “junkie”? This man worked pretty hard to get you into bed, and he succeeded – except – your better instincts prevailed and you let your feelings out and got out of there. BRAVA to YOU!!!

    He’s distant because now he knows he can’t get you into bed this way.

    We’re all glad here that you stopped calling – but Regina – you say you called and texted to apologize. And this is your junkie stuff. You have NOTHING to apologize for – you were GRAND – and what I want is for you to get that clearly in in brain, body and heart – Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 21 April 2009 @ 10:59am

  88. 88: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    ok I will but will this still work and make him chase me. I seen him at Fire Department Training last night and was polite and said hi and told him bye when I left and he hurried over to me and gave me a hug and said Good Night and he loved me and I told him the same and left and went home. I haven’t contacted him today and I’ve had to stop myself I hope this gets easier. I went on the dates with the other guys. One showed up with his 5 year old son and I was polite and we watched a movie. But he actually tried to make out and go more with his kid there. I told him no thank I don’t do that and it is unacceptable and left. The other guy I was polite but I couldn’t put my finger on it but something about him rubbed me the wrong way. I gave him a hug and thanked him for a good time and haven’t heard from him again. I haven’t been on any more dates, because I just feel so guilty and worng when my heart is still in Love with Robert. But I haven’t been at home for him to know I am pineing for him I have been at a friends house hanging with her and her husband (they are expecting there first a little boy and they have enjoyed the company. I feel I need to work more on feel good about myself and lay off on the dating. But I will continue to hang with friends and flirt with other guys that may peak my interested. But no more online 2 strikes on asses that only want one thing. Which I refuse to lower myself to. I didn’t with my exs and I won’t now. I was raised to know someone first because I have to be emotionally attached to have sex. I hope I am doing the right thing and he becomes lonely and miserable missing me. I want him back but I want him to want to be with me or I will just have to live without him. Keep your fingers crossed I have an application in for student loans and college entrance to the Law Enforcement Academy that starts in September. God Willing I will get my loans and be excepted and finally get to live my dream of being a police officer and make my community a safer place for everyone in it. And along the way maybe I can make Robert remove his head from his butt and come back to me where we can have the relationship with a ring that I’ve dreamed of having my whole life. Thanks Rori and all of your for your support and advice.
    GOD BLESS>
    Love,Regina

    Tuesday, 21 April 2009 @ 4:53pm

  89. 89: StellNo Gravatar says:

    I am currently in a similar situation and have found all these posts awesome. I am TOTALLY a junkie for affection and love. I get my high when I am with my guy and then when he goes back to his life, I am not included. Getting him to care about how I am feeling is a chore. So I emailed him to break up. I have tried this a few times before. He “costanza”s me constantly. Avoiding the calls when he knows something is wrong. And by the time we talk he sounds cheerful and like nothings wrong and I have burned off my anger and it’s forgive and forget. But not this time. I spent some time with family recently and after being around people that love me so much, it was clear that I am not loved by this man. He blew me off last night and it has been a struggle, but I broke it off. I don’t think he gets it yet.
    What I have to do next, even though I so desperately want to talk about it in person and hold him and see his face, is avoid all contact. I have given him many chances and we have had many talks about what we both need. But getting his full attention is like herding puppies. He just wants to hurry up and have a good time, and not spend so much time talking about the negative stuff…which is unfortunately the bed we made.

    Friday, 24 April 2009 @ 12:11pm

  90. 90: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Go Stell! Keep doing what you’re doing. No Contact is the way to go, Love, Rori

    Friday, 24 April 2009 @ 1:35pm

  91. 91: VickyNo Gravatar says:

    Hi everyone,

    I really need an advice from Rori and also from Mark. My situation is similar to those above. I broke up with him 6 months ago 4 days before christmas (the reason was he felt that I am too jealous and I would like to be around him all the time). Then he called me on Dec 24th asked me to comeover. And I went there. I spent 3 days 3 nights with him at his house. He treated me just like what he did for me for 2 years. I felt like we were back together but after I asked him, the answer was no. He told me that he didn’t want a girlfriend. He is busy with his school and his career path. He said he still loves me but he needs to do this for himself. He doesn’t want to be distracted. He just needs me as a friend for now even he still misses me as a girlfriend. Everything repeats like that until now. He keeps calling me everynight before he is going to bed and I’m not strong enough to ignore his call. He won’t call me only if it is the day that I argue with him about our relationship. Everything seemed to be good as it could be until yesterday (even we just planed to travel together in 2 weeks). We were supposed to meet yesterday but we did miscommunicate so we didn’t. I called him to ask if I can go see him but he said that I shouldn’t comeover his house again since we are not together anymore. He said that he didn’t know if he needed me or not and he said he just didn’t feel the same way I feel for him. I also asked if we’re still going to the trip that we planed and he said yes. I’m so confused now. One day he makes me feel that he still loves me a lot, another day he makes me feel like I’m just an idoit. I’m so so lost now. I need help. I love him a lot and I believe that we really had a great time together for last two years. Thank you so much. I wish you all good luck with your love life and everything. Vick.

    Tuesday, 26 May 2009 @ 4:39pm

  92. 92: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Vicky, Welcome – and here’s my take (I’m not sure you’re going to like this – it’s “tough love.” You are helaciously addicted to this man, your self-esteem is below basement level (I was there – I know what it feels like) – and you are basically humiliating yourself continually. This only erodes your confidence more and makes you less attractive – not only to him, but to any man. PLEASE get out of this. Stop all contact with him. He’s USING you for booty calls – yes that’s what you’re doing – you’re servicing him for sex and companionship and getting NOTHING in return. I know the women here will help you and give you the strength to get away from this man and start Circular Dating to heal yourself. Love, Rori

    Wednesday, 27 May 2009 @ 1:14pm

  93. 93: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Jennifer, Welcome – and hard as it is to hear – YES, CUT HIM OFF COMPLETELY. Now. This Minute. Don’t look back. He told you the truth. There’s nothing to be angry about (though I want you to feel how terrifically angry you are and USE that to propel you forward) – just get out of there. Love, Rori

    Wednesday, 27 May 2009 @ 1:23pm

  94. 94: JenniferNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for your response, Rori! I know that if I try to cut him off completely that he will eventually call, email or text. How do I become strong enough to not talk to him?? I’m not ready to cut him out of my life completely. There is such an emptiness without him. I feel like if I cut him off completely that I owe him sort of explanation. I guess that would be another example of me worrying about his feelings instead of mine!
    Jen

    Sunday, 7 June 2009 @ 6:17pm

  95. 95: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Jennifer – and ALL – you become strong by DOING STRONG. That’s what all my Tools are about – the ones that work from the Outside In…You DO and Behave in the way that LOOKS strong – to YOU – and then you Feel strong. It’s an old actor’s trick. So – as you DON’T do things that feel “weak” to you – (calling him, etc…) – and DO do things that feel strong – (cutting off contact) you will feel stronger. And if he calls, and you call back or pick up – you’ll have a Feeling Message speech ready for that, and consider it an experiment! Whatever happens is okay, because YOU didn’t INITIATE it! Love, Rori

    Monday, 8 June 2009 @ 3:20pm

  96. 96: reginaNo Gravatar says:

    Rori,

    I’ve done what you said to not contact Robert and I’ve noticed he seems worried I’ve found someone else. He text asking if I’m ok he hasn’t heard from me and if I’ve found someone else. I don’t answer and then he corners me at the fire department after meetin trying to get me to let him come over. I want him so bad still it has been 3 months and it still hurts so much to be without him. I have been saying not tonight and not answering texts, do you think he is thinking he’s losing his control over me. He has been going out with the guys all the time and he was calling me and I was answering. Now he seems to be texting me more trying to remind me he loves and misses me. Which makes me feel good and sad at the same time. Rori do you think I may have a chance of getting him to want me back? I still love and want him so much and pray this works. God Bless

    Monday, 8 June 2009 @ 4:44pm

  97. 97: JenNo Gravatar says:

    Well, I didn’t exactly take Rori’s advice and found out yesterday that he is “interested” in someone else. Supposedly, some old girlfriend he reconnected with…when he came over to talk last night, he actually acted like he wanted to have sex!! Does he still want to have both!!! What a jerk!!

    Jen

    Thursday, 18 June 2009 @ 12:16pm

  98. 98: StellNo Gravatar says:

    I sheepishly am contributing again, because as recently as last night, I spent time with that guy I mentioned before. We are officially broken up. But we both get so much out of being together, that in a way, our relationship/friendship is better than ever. But there is a weird pattern that doesn’t feel so great. I am going about with my life, and if I can’t meet with him when he wants to see me, or he misses me, he freaks out and must at all costs see me. He calls repeatedly. He tries to find out where i am. He asks, almost begs, to see me. He has admitted that in some ways I am a drug for him. And I know he is one for me. So during these withdrawal spells I feel extremely desired, needed, and powerful. But still I can hold my ground and not care. But somehow, I allow him to come within a safe distance, and then that distance gets smaller and smaller. He was freaking out Friday night because he just wanted to hug me. I kind of treat him badly the rest of the night, dismissive and unfeeling. (I have been trying to see other people and get my mind off him.) Eventually he tires of the treatment and the next day we have plans to hang with his friend for his birthday. This was last night.
    I go, I get there without him. I bugged him during the day because I was warming up to spending time with him and he had already moved on with his day. I felt like such a loser. He had abused my trust in the past and now gets mad at me for asking him simple questions because he thinks i am doubting him again and interrogating. But whether he is hanging out with a girl or not, I don’t care, all I care is that he says what’s true.

    Anyway. We had a very passionate night and today he left. I felt a little pang of sadness when he closed the door behind him. Now he is out of my reach and it feels as if the control is in his hands again. :(

    Sunday, 21 June 2009 @ 8:12am

  99. 99: StellNo Gravatar says:

    I just realized how scatterbrained the posting I just wrote was. Sorry everyone! The ultimate message is: if he needs me so much, and seems to feel like he can’t let me go, why doesn’t he just make it a relationship?

    Sunday, 21 June 2009 @ 8:43am

  100. 100: JenNo Gravatar says:

    I regret not finding these articles and this blog earlier in my relationship. The things that I’ve read on this site would’ve been very helpful to maybe save the relationship I had, instead of pushing him away.
    I’m so hurt and can’t seem to stop thinking about what I did wrong! When in reality, he is the one that has the problem with committing. So now he will move to the next woman to waste 3,4, or 5 years of her time! Even though I know it’s the best thing that could happen to me, why does it hurt so bad!!!!

    Monday, 22 June 2009 @ 7:05pm

  101. 101: susanNo Gravatar says:

    I have the same problem Stell; great when we’re together.. don’t understand what he is scared of..

    Tuesday, 30 June 2009 @ 1:25pm

  102. 102: StellNo Gravatar says:

    Ah, ladies (and some gents), i am in such a good place. After a week of breaking all contact, as an experiment, i agreed to spend some time with Vlad today. for the most part the hardest part was seeing him in person. Hearing his voice on the phone a few days ago was difficult because i could “demonize” him less. i could hear his humanity. The risk is that i would sympathize with his needs too much and not listen to my own.

    Well i was mindful throughout our talk and kept the negative associations in close range should I need to remind myself of the reasons I should NOT let my guard down and NOT become affectionate, even verbally, with him again.

    It worked and I was able to hear his voice and remove any nostalgia from it.

    Next step, respecting new boundaries while in his presence.

    He is loving, affectionate and, most maddening of all, guileless. He acts on whims of emotion, not realizing how a gentle touch, or kiss on the cheek, could make someone start having serious romantic feelings, not just the momentary thrill of sensation and emotion. Well, i set out to correct that today.

    We drove out to Long Island. While at first he was very cool and detached he seemed to come closer throughout the day. I didn’t initiate coming closer to him. We had fun in the car, I held the map and gave directions. We joked, poked and tickled and did things that were still in my comfort zone. A couple times he got a bit affectionate. Looked at me lovingly or said loving things. We spoke of our relationship a few times and clarified some questions that I had. It was good to have this open forum where I didn’t care if halfway into the trip I mentioned something that he wouldn’t like. I wouldn’t mind if he turned around and brought me home, if it meant I could speak freely and fairly, unafraid to call a spade a spade.

    As we were walking down the street he reached for my hand. I wouldn’t let him hold it. My weakness is the hands. Once I hold them I think there is love there, and I can’t put myself through the roller coaster of feeling mutual love and yet getting no commitment. So i wouldn’t let him hold it. When he asked me why, i didn’t blame or accuse or get angry or snide. I simply said, “because you are not my boyfriend. Were you my boyfriend, I would hold your hand, because that is what boyfriends and girlfriends do”.

    He listened and later was compelled to do it again, and was also compelled to kiss me on the lips, but I gently avoided and reestablished my boundaries. I played the broken record without anger or impatience. Its quite possible that I needed to hear myself say the words more than I needed him to hear them. “I can do that with a boyfriend, but not with you”.

    He couldnt get mad at that. He couldn’t dispute that. And it made very clear what I was interested in welcoming into my life. Soon enough he will start putting his energies elsewhere.

    The big test came in the evening when he dropped me off at home. It was very late. He still had a 20 mile ride home. He wanted to sleep over, naturally. Instead of leaving it up to whether or not he could find a space to park,( i live in a crowded neighborhood), I said it would probably not be a good idea. ANd I was honest. I told him, “It would not be good for me to see you in my apartment because I am reclaiming my space, without you. Waking up with you in the morning will put me in “relationship” space, where you wake up with your boyfriend after he sleeps over.

    I don’t want to put myself in a position to feel abandoned. Having coffee and breakfast together but feeling abandoned when you walk out the door to go to work. Because you won’t be coming back to me that night. And for all I know you will be hooking up with a new girl that very evening. I don’t want a reminder of the thing that you wont give me.”

    He asked to go to the bathroom, I handed him the keys and told him I would wait downstairs because I simply didnt want to associate my personal private space with his presence anymore. At least I am not ready to yet. He thought it was a bit silly, but I was so much more comfortable this way. I didn’t care how stupid it sounded and logically I could make my point so it wasn’t “crazy talk”.

    For all my bravado I did cave slightly (it was very late after all) and said, “ok if you can find a parking space you can sleep on the mat in the living room floor (which he actually doesnt mind). But one thing I ask of you. You must look very very sad to leave me in the morning”. We say cute and funny things to each other, and I said this in a sincere way so he knew I was serious but kind of confessing a deep dark need. He was taken aback for a moment. Truly that is what hurts the most when someone leaves me in my apartment alone, that they are not as blue about leaving me as I am about seeing them go. It never bothered me much when we were together, but the more I felt him straining against the strings of the commitment, the more painful it became because I didnt trust he missed me.

    Either that was the ultimate turn off or he had compassion for my feelings, and he said, “ok if I find a space, i will, but most likely I will just go home.”

    And he did. We talked briefly when I called to find out if he was still circling the block for a space (he never confirmed which he chose…the suspense!) and he told me had just pulled into his driveway. We talked briefly,lovingly, and I presented him with a question. All his emotions for me point to us being together. He and I want to share and experience 99% of the same things with each other. How strange it is that he resists calling it a relationship or having the responsibility of being exclusive.

    He loves me, he likes me and my company/mind/conversations, he is attracted to me, he likes being affectionate with me, he is sexually aroused by me, we laugh together, enjoy time together, etc. Yet despite all this he won’t commit? Why not? He also claims he is not interested in playing the field as much as he used to. So what’s the stumbling block here?

    I put this in his court tonight before saying goodnight. We still say “i love you” and i feel more and more secure with myself.

    Today I sent him a very clear message:

    He cannot sample this dish. He wants to have the pleasures of me, he would have to choose and commit. There is no sample of me available, only the whole dish.

    At this very moment, I am game to be his friend. The beauty of life is that I might change my mind later, and that’s permissible too.

    Ladies: NO SAMPLING ALLOWED. DEMAND THAT HE BUY THE WHOLE DISH!

    Wednesday, 1 July 2009 @ 1:11am

  103. 103: StellNo Gravatar says:

    P.S. I wrote above”I put this in his court tonight before saying goodnight. We still say “i love you” and i feel more and more secure with myself.”

    I wanted to clarify that when I said I feel more secure with myself, I mean that I feel more secure by myself. I feel secure in telling him “i love you” without making it mean anything more than that.

    I am not saying it to try to get him back. I tell him because I do love him. I think this balance is important. After taking the space we need, during which we are entitled to demonize him as much as necessary, we can be balanced again and feel love for someone without making their absence in our life mean anything. It is the healthier choice for me and I feel it’s harder to do but in the end a better payoff.

    Wednesday, 1 July 2009 @ 1:18am

  104. 104: StellNo Gravatar says:

    P.P.S. The payoffs are- I feel less afraid. He has less and less power over me the more I see him (and create new memories and associates of him) as a friend.

    Thanks for reading all the way to this PPS everyone. I appreciate you allowing me to share.

    -Stell

    Wednesday, 1 July 2009 @ 1:21am

  105. 105: StellNo Gravatar says:

    TYPO: associates = associations

    Wednesday, 1 July 2009 @ 1:22am

  106. 106: JenniferNo Gravatar says:

    I am anxiously awaiting a post from Rori about being a “junkie”. I can honestly say I’m addicted to my ex. I know that he is seeing someone else, he’s actually very open about it. Even though I know he has someone else, of course he is still willing to come see me and have sex.

    I know that this situation is not helping my self-esteem at all! I just can’t seem to stay away from him. He is more than willing to keep this affair going. I’ve basically become the other woman. I hate myself for being in this situation, but I can not seem to stop this destructive behavior.

    Has anyone else been in this situation? How can you act strong, when the person that makes you so weak is right down the hall from you every day at work???

    Any suggestions?

    Monday, 27 July 2009 @ 6:00pm

  107. 107: ChristineNo Gravatar says:

    Rori,

    Thanks for your advice in the jealousy article but I think that my fiance and I might break up. He told me last night that all he feels for me now is friendship and that in his gut this co-worker wants a relationship with him, even though that’s not what he wants. He has yet to ask her how she feels for him because he says its too soon. But he is pretty sure about her feelings because she acts the way that I did when he and I first were starting out, wanting to be with him all the time and always thinking about him and so on. He says that we might still have a chance that only time and Leah’s feelings for him will tell.

    Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 8:18am

  108. 108: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Christine, so sorry it’s going down this way…you must back away from this man NOW…get really busy and start dating!!! Do whatever you can to get out with other men…This is not about making him jealous…or even you feeling better. You have to very quickly start to feel that you have OPTIONS.

    Please note this…this woman is getting a hold on him because she’s being VULNERABLE with him. She’s being a “girl” – at least for now. This is what you need to be practicing 24/7 – because you need to OUTGIRL this other woman! Learn to be vulnerable everywhere you are. Let the tears run down your checks. Meditate. Get calm, cool, and vulnerable…Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 12:05pm

  109. 109: JenniferNo Gravatar says:

    I’m a little confused at how Christine should Circular Date if she’s engaged? Have they broken up?

    I’m not sure how I understand how this co-worker is being vulnerable???

    Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 5:05pm

  110. 110: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Jennifer, Circular Dating is not just about dating. It’s a mindset. It’s therapeutic. It uses every interaction with a man to help you draw in Mr. Right – even if he’s already in your life. The co-worker was exposing her emotions, her difficulties, and leaning on him. How do you see being vulnerable? I’d love to hear all your thoughts and ideas on what “vulnerability” means to YOU. Rori

    Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 9:12pm

  111. 111: NinaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori, could you please advice about my situation

    I met a guy in Feb last year (he is in US and I am in Asian country). He was here to visit his family. His brother is a close friend of my friend.

    First time he was me, he asked my friend about me and invited me to have a dinner with his family, I was so nervouse and didn’t talk a lot….I also invited him to go to my home, and had dinner with my family, just to know more about me (as that was the last week he was here).

    Since then we used to chat to each other, almost every day. First few months, he seemed interested in me, he sent me pictures, the links where he works, pictures of his offices, his newphews…etc….he tried to chat with me even he was out with his friends or on holidays…….

    Our first argrument was about my friend, I arranged her to meet one guy, a friend of my friend, she didn’t say no at first but later on she refused…..he blamed me to see him for myself…..I said no, if I did that, why I got my friend involved in this, I better did it on my own.

    Many times, when I sent offline messages, he didn’t replied….I was upset at first and then just let it be.

    He told me that he also chat with another girl in VN (he met her before me)…..when I heard about this I wanted to stop….I told him I didn’t want to have trouble later….but he convinced me, he asked by now, will I marry him? I knew him just about 4 months, so I could not answer….that’s fair, he can chat with that girl.

    Few months later, he said he didn’t interest in that girl anymore, and he asked me to think where we will live, in his country or my country? and he also sent me a picture….and hope that he could see me with our kid in the future.

    Over a year, he had a lot arguments, one time, he told me that his family introduced him a girl, that girl would like to stay there and would pay him money for it….I was shocked and wanted to stop. He said if he didn’t chat with me any more, he wished me a happy birthday…..I said it is okie, just do the best for you.

    I didn’t know what happens, but he didn’t say anything about that girl anymore.

    I remember one day, he told me he didn’t know what he wants, he asked me to convince him (I really like him, so I agreed), and whenever we have arguments, he said I am just a friend, how I can have a nerve to tell him like that, and one time I confronted asking him, who you think I am? am I just a friend of you? he told me I was not in position to ask any question, and he didn’t answer me.

    One time, he told me that we would organise a cooking contest, the winner will become his wife, I didn’t happy abouta it but didn’t complain about this much.

    In December, my friend wanted me to see another guy, I didn’t but I told him about this….he was very angry at first….few days later,he told me I should see other guys so I will value him more….I said no, I told him I think about him a lot, and not interested in other guy…..and he was so stressed, he didn’t know what he wants

    In Feb this year, I returned here, we met each other. About a week, I planned to go out with him for a dinner, but have to stay late in the office, I told him I called him when I finished….and when I called him, he said he was with his family and asked me to go there, I was shy and didn’t go (the reason is I knew that her sister wanted him to marry with a friend of her and got some money).

    Few days later, he asked me if I liked him and how much….I said it it not our culture to ask a girl like that, especially when you called me in a formal way….he told me if I didn’t answer he will call another girl and ask about it.

    I told him that I was sorry that I didn’t have lunch with his family, and I want to visit his family and I wanted him to go over my home during tet, but he refused.

    I didn’t call him any more, but then he called me every day, talking about this and that….after 2 days I asked him to go out and asked which is my position in his heart? he said I am not his girlfriend, he didn’t commit anything, and if I want to see other guy, he would be sad for 5 minutes, and he is not ready for a relationship.

    I told him it is okie, I could be his friend but I want him to be mindful when he chat/talk to me….he visited one of my friend and told her that he didn’t have any feeling for me (though he always confirmed with me that he likes me just after his family and his feeling is not change). When I told him about what I heard from my friend, he told me it was the truth, and he couldn’t lie me.

    During his holidays, he asked me to go out a lot, looked at me (to see if he could spend the rest of his life with me). Then he backed to his home country, I till chat with him (not much, just normal as a friend) he told me he missed me and our chat and told me if I could help him with the 3 options:
    1. Stay single as now
    2.Pick me
    3.Pick some one else

    I told him that before i thought he is the one I am looking for, but after so many things happen, one part, I want to know him more, the other I afraid I would get hurt again, and I told him that, he is the only person knows what he wants and who he loves……then I said he just want to have a good wife and happy family……I am so tired with this way and wish him to find a right person, and I will find another for myself.

    I know he is so sceptial, he didn’t believe any one except his family, and he is afraid of commitment (because he saw so many divorce).

    Please advise what I should do? did I do it right? I don’t want to loose him but I don’t think it will work out for us and if it is, I don’t think if I have a happy life later.

    Sunday, 28 March 2010 @ 12:21am

  112. 112: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Nina, Welcome and thank you for your story. I think you handle yourself with great, wonderful dignity – and am very sorry you feel the need to still interact with this man who is offering you NOTHING. I hope you are allowing other men in your own country who may have serious intentions for you to take you out and spend time with you, and that you’re giving them a chance. Putting so much energy and feeling into a man who you consider a “friend” does not serve you well. If things should change for him and he decides to pursue you – you will know it – and judging from your composure here, you will know what to do if that happens. Meanwhile, I hope your culture is not preventing you from having a fun young womanhood and allowing good suitors to chase after you…I have heard many stories like this, and you must do all your can to take charge of your own life. Love, Rori

    Sunday, 28 March 2010 @ 9:32am

  113. 113: NinaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you so much for your reply.

    The problem I have with him is he didn’t believe for who I am, even I didn’t lie to him, and we live half of the earth way.

    Is there any way I can gain his trust? do you have any post relating to this?

    Thursday, 1 April 2010 @ 8:23pm

  114. 114: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Rori – I just received the Sirens package. I am in the same situation as a love junkie and KNOW I have to break it off. I know now I never had his love but was a friend with (not very good) benefits.

    I am so glad I found your website. I am an intelligent, beautiful woman who is going to have it all. I send my love and support to all women out there who are in the same place.

    Thursday, 16 December 2010 @ 7:59pm

  115. 115: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – Welcome! Love, Rori

    Friday, 17 December 2010 @ 9:33am

  116. 116: HeidiNo Gravatar says:

    Rori~ Thank you for this great forum! I’ve just purchased your book yesterday and I’m new to the tools….I have a question….

    I’ve been seeing this guy for over a year. I met him online (his profile is still active on that site btw). Everything was beautiful until the year mark. He grew rather distant and his daily calls turned into weekly calls and even less than that. Our visits went from weekly to monthly.

    I was madly in love with him, but I knew from the beginning that he was possibly emotionally unavailable. However, he said that he loved me.

    His reasoning for cooling things down and “taking a break” in November was that I was too emotional and that he couldn’t keep up with me. I don’t consider myself needy at all. I’m a confident woman normally and usually am the one capable of giving advice, and not having to ask for it. I was just very comfortable with him and showed it. I’m very demonstrative. I give gifts and massages (he did not reciprocate) and lots of sex. I felt I was the perfect girlfriend. During the last few months, he has avoided answering questions, such as where I stand. After 3+ months, I felt he could at least answer that. He didn’t keep in touch very often, either.

    He DOES have a lot on his plate and is busy at work.

    When I would ask questions, he would actually punish me by saying that he wouldn’t answer because I’ve always ask. However, when we last talked, he was nice to me, but informed me he wanted to break up and not be “on a break” and be friends and told me he’s said that several times. (He hasn’t told me that prior and that was part of the info I was trying to get from him via my questions.) Why did he keep that important piece of info from me?

    He also said that he doesn’t want a relationship until next year, if that. But if the friendship works out, he’ll consider more after the first of the year. However, if I want to date other men, I should go ahead, since he feels we aren’t a good match emotionally. And if he finds another woman in the interim, I’m to embrace that or I’m not a supportive friend.

    We had sex a few weeks ago in an attempt for me to try the friends with benefits thing, which I don’t like at all, but I wanted to try it for him. He’s always said I was the best he’s ever had, but last night he said he’s not sure he ever wants to have sex with me again….he might just want friends only…sex would cloud things…..which threw me completely….and it hurt……I left the conversation with more than I thought I would and I was shocked. He maintains that he’s doing all this for my benefit.

    My question is….Am I a junkie??? …and I hate to ask it cause I know I should leave the situation, but should I just go with it and be friends and grin and bear it…maybe I’m expecting too much from him…..he’s dangled the tiny prospect of us having a second chance….I want to say…he IS a good guy…but he has never admitted fault since I’ve known him, and when I compliment him daily, Ive asked him in the past to give me a compliment once in awhile, he refuses. He’s a Leo and acts very much the king….I’m a Taurus. In the past week or so, he’s given me the cold shoulder, but then denies it. I’ve never had anyone do this to me before. ….Thank you for reading…………xoxox

    Sunday, 13 March 2011 @ 9:04pm

  117. 117: TracyNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori,

    I really took this blog to heart and it made me feel very sad and frustrated. From reading the blog and the comments i do see the “junkie” aspect to it. heres my story its very long being that its been going on for 7 years, so i appreciate you taking the time to read it.
    Long story short. I started dating my ex when i was 19, it was one of those things were i wasnt ready to date him (i was still getting over someone else at the time) but he kept chasing me and never gave up on me, until he finally won me over.we dated for a year were practically obsessed with eachother, we spent every moment together, then all of sudden he pulled a 180 and broke up with me, i was devistated and didnt know what to do, his best friend reached out to me and we started all hanging out. it was hell, during that time he was chasing after some girl at work that had no interest in him other then flirting and wanting his attention just because she was the type that craved attention from a guy. I was so hurt, confused and mainly felt betrayed. but, i still loved him..His best friend (whom was a girl) ended up reaching out to me and we would start going out,basically just us girls going to bars and clubs, it was a complete change of senery for me, the year that me and my ex dated we never went out. I was enjoying exploring my single new found freedom and making new friends (basically getting my own life) but deep down i still loved him, adventually our paths end up crossing when our mutual friend had a birthday outting, he pulled me to the side to talk to me(it was the first time we talked in a month since the break up) i could tell he was emotional about it but didnt want it to show( he cuped my face at one point, but then let go) and we went along with the evening…we decided we would become friends at that point, being that we were in the same circle of friends… i even ended up befriending the girl he was chasing (which looking back was the worst thing i could do to myself, he ended up confiding in me and i literally watched him chase her) two months later we got back together…things were going okay, i was having a hard time with the fact that he chased a girl right infront of me (well, to be honest i was having a hard time that he had once had feeling for another girl period.) the girl was still around and was asking him to do stuff with her and he would go, one day i got upset and told him i didnt feel okay with him being friends with a girl he once had feelings for..he understood and stopped talking to her at work. however i just couldnt let go of the hurt and he could tell i didnt trust him and that hurt him. a year later we broke up AGAIN, we tried the friends thing, again i watched him chase just about any girl that gave him attention but at the same time, he would still give me attention and mixed signals all the time, he would flirt and try to touch and get close to me, but he said he didnt want a girlfriend and he needed to concentrate on school…i was so confused one moment he was telling me that it wasnt that he still cared for me but that he needed to be single, but at the same time chased after every girl. I found out years later, that his father (whom is an alocholic) didnt like me and would pick fights with him about it. He always struggled with trying to feel like he belonged in his family and having acceptance from them, he was pretty depressed often due to that. Finally after almost a year of pain and confusion.. i cut him off cold turkey and told him i couldnt do it anymore. we didnt talk for a year ( i found out he had a girlfriend, shortly after i cut him loose). a month after they broke up he texted me out of no where. by that time i had moved on and no longer had feelings for him. we started talking as friends, slow at first but then it became more.. at the time he was yet again chasing a girl and i was interested in another man ( we kind bounded over that). after both our crushes rejected us we started talking more and more, then something terrible happened to my family and he came running over to be with me (it was the first time in a year i saw him) we started hanging out more and more, he even seemed to be going on “dates” but he was being secretive about it to his family. before i knew it we hooked up sexually(it just happened) when i finally question about our relationship, he went back into the i cant date right now..but yet just a month before that he was trying to chase the other girl. so once again i felt hurt, rejected and basically called him out on his bs. but by this time my feelings were invested again. so i continued to hangout with him as well as my crush. one night my crush called and said he wanted me to come over( i just happened to be talking to my ex at the time and told him about it, he seemed cool with it and didnt say anything). the next day my ex told me he was jealous that i went to my crushes house and then started joking around to ease the tension(as he always does). from there we were practically dating without the lable. we did everything a couple does. but, he said he still couldnt date me ( i found out at some point that his father didnt like me and thought i was taking him away from his school work) i understood for awhile about his fear from his father, i met the man and he was pretty intiminating, but after while i felt like it was just an excuse not to be with me. until, one day i over heard his father and him talking. my ex came to pick me up and his father called, his father asked where he was, my ex didnt want to lie to him infront of me so he told his father that he was with me, his father flipped out and demanded that he come home (with no real reason, mind you my ex was now, 21 years old) they got in huge fight and his dad ended up grounding him and taking away his vehicle (just because he saw me)!! it was then that i realized how much of a control his father had over him and the abuse he had to deal at home, i can only imagine the arguements they had when we were dating. so we went on behind his father back and still saw eachother, he lied to his family to be with me!! after a year of that, he started to pull away and said he didnt want to hurt me and that i deserve so much better then he can offer me, and then bascially just walked away, about a month later he called me crying and saying he missed me and that he knows hes depressed and has issues he needs to work on, he told me i was the only girl that ever meant anything to him, and nothing makes him happier then when he sees me smile or hears my voice (things like that, that just made me melt and forgive him). i let him back in and the cycle continued all over again, he would get super close and then back away again…there was so many times where i said enough is enough, and we would end it, but then i would end up being at the same stop sign as him or just happen to see him somewhere and i felt drawn to him. So here Iam today, still in the same situation but much worse now, now we’ve basically admited that our friendship has turned into “friends with benefits” and theres times im okay with and then times it tears me apart and i just start balling. I know i could do the cold turkey again, my fear is we been throught that over and over again, that now when we say “this is over”, lets stop doing this to ourselfs, its become a joke. i know hes lost his respect for me and my boundries..pretty much everything i said i would never do, i have done. he’s now 24, and hes graduated from college and his dad has backed off now, hes no longer controlling his life and what he can and can not do, he still has his drunk days were he mentally abused him, and my ex just stays home to avoid a fight, but he has more freedom now, he still hides that fact that we talk(even to his friends b/c once his best friend almost slipped to his dad that we were hanging out). So other then the nights he stops over for “booty call” or us texting throughout the day, we have no real connection..i dont know his friends out his outside life anymore. I still love him, and i feel deep down he loves me to but hes to screwed up to admit it or want to feel it… but, i just feel like to much has happened with us, his respect for me is gone and now he knows he can go in and out of my life and i’ll welcome him back. So, i have your products but at this point what do i do? i know i could do the cold turkey way, but is there another way? should i just use the “reconnect to your relationship tools” and use feeling words and help him connect to my heart again, and just set up new boundries?? or am i far beyong fixing at his point. I really need guidence, im trying to feel my feeling and that is helping, but its not telling me which way to go. I just want him to just step up and BE with me, and not worry about his father or anything other then him wanting to be with me. I’ve always believed that if a man loves you no matter what, he will find a way to be with you..and his did do that for awhile..but for the past two years we’ve just been so disconnected.

    Please help me Rori, help me figure out what to do, im going to try and start going on dates (im just scared because everytime i try to date someone knew i just end up pushing them away and hurting them…i guess im afraid if i ever really moved on and fell in love with someone else, then me and my ex would really be over, and that all we’ve been through would be for nothing. I also feel guilt, because if i move on then he’ll be left alone, and i know i shouldnt worry about him, he didnt seem to worry about me when he was trying to chase all those girls, but i just feel like he needs me somehow, i’ve notice in the past that its when im out of his life that things go worse for him and he gets more depressed, and i do love him, i would give anything for us to have our “happily ever after” especially after everything we’ve been through. i just dont know if thats even realistic anymore.

    sincerly confused,

    Tracy

    Monday, 2 May 2011 @ 8:08pm

  118. 118: CarrieNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, awesome advice Rori!!
    I can totally relate to the girl in this post… been there, done that. it’s horrific! And just about went down that road again with another guy just recently. You have to be SO strong with men, they will say and do all the things you want. Listen I was with a guy for more than 10 years and essentially it was a fwb situation although he had proposed marriage early on, refused to go through with it. It took EVERYTHING i had to walk away, and yes he pleaded and begged and showed up and claimed to love me and blah blah blah… meanwhile he was engaged to someone else!! I walked away from that and walked right back into a similar situation and really just about lost my mind. Don’t trust men! honestly! You have to put up so many boundaries to protect yourself. The answer is ALWAYS NO! to any guy who EVER proposes any sort of fwb or casual situation or who isn’t showing the HIGH level of respect I deserve…
    After too many years giving myself to men who were not serious, I absolutely have learned the word NO and have very high expectations for anyone who comes along… I get hit on sooo often and get asked out a lot, I can tell you I’ve pretty much heard every line… my feeling is that the proof is in the action and rarely do guys ever follow through with positive action showing that they actually want a serious relationship… I totally used to think that all people were good people and would never hurt someone that they cared about… I totally believed that, I thought everyone would be as honest as I am, my father never had that discussion with me about what guys are really like, I had to learn on my own. and I suppose he is such a gentleman he figured as well that most men would also be gentleman. These days many guys don’t know how to be masculine or gentleman and our culture totally promotes fwb situations… women are not taught to value ourselves or how to deal with these situations… it’s really difficult… I feel for the poster. It’s hard… kinda breaks your heart a bit everytime a guy treats you with so little respect… you have to know that you are worth more than that no matter how you look, your job, your social life, your background… you are always always always always ALWAYS worth more than being put in a situation like that.

    Thursday, 6 December 2012 @ 1:18am

  119. 119: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Carrie, welcome – and I’d love to flow over you a new perspective – that there ARE great men out there – you just haven’t been meeting them, or attracted to them. Love, rori

    Thursday, 6 December 2012 @ 8:37pm

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