The “No Contact Rule” And Urgency – What To Do?

questionmarkGreat Question:

Hi Rori,

I am working on practicing the “feeling” statements whenever I can – on the phone, with the checkout guy in the grocery, etc. I have been reading the ebook, and continuing through the classes. I’ve been working on “catching” myself, and consciously relaxing my shoulders, pelvis, etc. And writing things as I can. But I am having trouble with “urgency.”

And I am hoping that the more I practice Circular Dating, the more this will go away…but right now, after that initial contact, I’ve had two days of nothing. So, I’m trying to honor my feeling of disappointment, respect it, and continue to learn…but I am having trouble letting go of the worry that I’ve blown my chance.

I know that I’m not allowed to beat myself up, so I keep trying to catch that worry, respect it, and tell it that I am now in control…I guess I’m looking for some reassurance here, since everyone else I know would think I’m absolutely crazy to even consider anything else with Ron. I know he has difficulty processing emotion – almost like Asperger’s – though I’m not sure about that.

I am trying to be in the present, but I keep having this vision of the small wedding I thought maybe we’d be having this summer…I know, I can’t control it. The more I try to force or control it, the more it will slip through my grasp.

Am I missing something, or do I just keep going on this same path for now? Because I desperately want to call him and share stuff with him…find out about what he’s doing, how his day was, etc. And I know that I have to lean back…for someone who has always taken the bull by the horns, this is really hard.


My Answer:

Barb – This is the point where I don’t want to be telling you what to do.

This is where I want you to start experiencing DOING these Tools, practicing like mad, and learning to trust yourself.

In my view, Ron is irrelevant to the work you’re doing – he’s only there to reflect how your inner work is going.

His being gone could simply mean you don’t need him anymore as a lesson, and his showing up could mean there’s more here to be explored.

I do know this – and it’s the same as every relationship coach in the world, and everything you read will tell you: The “No Contact Rule.”

This basically states that it takes a man about 8 weeks (Dr. Pat Allen started this all many years ago) to MISS you.

And that by reaching out and contacting him, you basically ADD another 8 weeks to the process. Every time you reach out, you start from zero again.

I personally don’t like rules (except my own “Four Rules…”!).

I want you to discover for yourself what works for you. An Asperger’s man (this is at the low end of the Autism spectrum – and is more common than you’d think, especially in men – though it’s not to be confused with a man who’s simply highly sensitive, or prone to shut down emotionally, or has difficulty processing a lot of input at once…so please don’t try to clinically “label” any man you know or meet…) will have even more difficulty than a “regular” man in handling stimulation and input.

He will just shut down. That’s what you’ve noticed. And yet, the other day, as you used the Tools – he talked and talked. And now he’s withdrawn again.

It may be that if you’re not in front of him – he simply “forgets.”

He may simply not be able to have a relationship without a woman pushing it and leading it and making it happen – and then – he can’t stand her pushing and shoving.

You have to decide for yourself what you want to do. There is nothing that says you can’t be the MAN in a relationship, and allow the man to follow you.

The thing is – this one is very tricky, and you need superb skills to know when to lead and when to follow.

It’s going to take time and practice for you to learn these skills out there in the world Circular Dating, flirting, going out with other men, discovering how you operate and what works.

The sense of urgency is the obstacle here – it’s working against you.

Breathing, Circular Dating, expanding your world and the men you engage with, practicing the Tools with everyone will help you practice reducing urgency, because those new experiences will trigger that sense of urgency!

It’s very difficult to learn about ourselves and make shifts and changes in patterns we can’t experience – patterns we’re keeping hidden away.

The work here is to love every discovery, love every step of the way, every part of yourself you open up.

My vote is for you to pick a timeline – 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 2 weeks – whatever you want, where you will do your best to focus AWAY from him and not contact him.

And then, at the end of that time you’ve set for yourself, you get to revisit, and reconsider what you want to do.

You cannot “wreck” something that is not meant to “be” just by contacting a man.

You can cause yourself way more grief by putting out effort and not getting the result you want.

Best thing is ALWAYS to Circular Date and focus on LEARNING!!

Love, Rori

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798 Comments to “The “No Contact Rule” And Urgency – What To Do?”

  1. 1: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    First one! and i had sex with Dman! and it was awesome!

    i got my pussy ate too!

    and i talked about it all day and almost didnt do it till he got on my page!

    i feel so good!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:23am

  2. 2: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    ufff i coulda been the man and had Securityman follow me. like the other girl. i feel jealous.

    she subtly lead. i leaned back. he seemed more into me in person…

    but when i was gone would ‘forget’

    i knew i could easily lead like her

    with easy subtle things

    i feel shaky

    that didnt actually bother me or even drain me… to do so…

    its easy for me and i feel experienced and even good doing it

    did i sabotage it by not doing so?


    i feel triggered with shakyness sadness and maybe fear

    how would things be different if i led?

    if i led…

    i woulda stood up to her leading

    instead of allow her to lead him when im around

    i woulda contacted him

    i woulda took him to my area to familiarize him with it

    i woulda helped him with his interviews

    i wouldve agreed to participate in his business goals when he asked me to

    i mighta even told him to leave her

    i feel shaky

    its been a month….

    another month will make it 8 weeks and i bet he’ll miss me

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:34am

  3. 3: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    and… Dman is really not in a relationship anymore… it feels better with him

    i felt good when i said to him i like you a lot and he said i like you a lot too

    and he kissed me goodbye


    i feel like im getting closer to him

    i think this is cuz i insisted on having my nani ate and communicated through the awkwardness and it in my head translated to high status for me


    and since he was doing something for me he fell into feelings for me too

    woo hooo :)

    i feel so happy and it felt so good and i feel so proud and happy hehe

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  4. 4: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i had sex! i had sex! i had sex!!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  5. 5: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    im having an active sex life! and i felt GOOD emotionaly both times (last month and this month)

    ive been wanting my sex life to be active and good for years and now its happening wooo hooo!!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:48am

  6. 6: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    im ready for more sex! :) :) :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 12:45pm

  7. 7: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “It may be that if you’re not in front of him – he simply “forgets.”

    Yup, that’s the one. And for a siren who wants to be treasured and adored and, like Elsie, wants her man to wake each day feeling like he’s won the lottery… well, it just doesn’t feel good.

    Who wants to be forgotten? Although given a choice between that and an in-your-face possesive man… I would choose indifference..

    I mean – if it’s true – that he forgets me when I’m not in front of him (and sometimes when I am!) am I to just accept him as he is?
    I’d rather keep feeling my choices, and stay open to options of greater joy.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 2:45pm

  8. 8: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – I feel honored that you wrote about me. :) That YOU remembered me and didnt forget. :) haha!

    Well, after the date Friday, it was texting ALL day Sat. and then he texted me ALL day on Sunday – so sweet. And cute. He even called me “darling” … GS HATES pet nicknames and I love them, and CollegeCD already has a few unique ones for me – I love it.

    He wants to Io see me again and he is trying to figure out his schedule and mine. (kids, you know and shuffling!) But he is rowing this boat, and I’m getting my tan on. :)

    GS is out of town for work. He called me today for a work related question. And so I answered. Remember he didnt contact me at ALL over the weekend. It was interesting. The conversation felt……platonic. Thats the best way I could describe it. I”m not mad at GS – he just I dont think has the capacity to be what I need. Now, I also dont think he ever will because of his ISTP and his avoidant personality in relaitonships will not lend itself to getting the help he needs to develop. I do love him, but I love what he was for me, and what he helped me with and that he pulled me out from the depths of despair. I do love him for that and he will always have a place in my heart. I do not know if we end up together, and I”m ok either way now. REALLY REALLY ok….really. And that feels rediculously awesome.

    So, after that, our line got disonnected because of spotty service, and then he texted and said “Oh, I had hoped to ask you about your weekend, did you have a good weekend?” I just answered “haha….yes, I did…thank you.” And that was it.

    The difference between CollegeCD and GS is amazing. AMAZING.

    Now, I just have to make sure not to focus just on CollegeCD – or else I’ll be in the same boat as before. :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 2:58pm

  9. 9: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Well I was taken by surprise when “M” e-mailed me today to say:
    “Seems I am the Avoidant. That explains why we have the conflict we do. Which will never go away. ”

    I sent him a book review on the ATTACHED book and it was from a phd in psychology who says that he disagrees with the books premice that avoidants and anxious can’t work it out…

    but I didn’t notice that there was a link to a quiz.. apparently “M” took the quiz…

    so I was crying when I read his e-mail… b/c I wasn’t sure what that meant… yet he is right the conflict started with him creating arguments, over silly stuff..which I knew had nothing to do with the silly stuff.. like crickets..

    but now that the crying has stopped! I realize he maybe right… it could just be the thing that breaks us up… most especially if, he isn’t willing to work on it… and his e-mail would clearly suggest he isn’t though when I did the test in the book he didn’t score an avoidant..

    I’m sad… and yet, I’m ok! if he wants to end it then nothing I can do about…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:17pm

  10. 10: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    The word avoidant makes me feel shuddery and cold. I’m considering stopping reading all books that analyse us humans.

    To me, to think he flew all the way to god-knows-where to help his sister, it does not suggest avoiding contact with his close ones.

    I believe men pull away when they perceive any form of disrespect. And, when a woman insists on being right, or defending herself, or doing ANY masculine stuff, men pick it up, and recoil.

    ‘Avoidant’ could be translated to ‘very sensitive to unfeminine signals put out by women’.
    I’m relating this to my own experience. I love a good rumbunctious debate. Can’t do it with WM. He can’t handle it. It appears to repulse him when I get a bit feisty. He needs to feel my vulnerable feminine side in order to come/stay close to me.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:34pm

  11. 11: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I choose to believe we are all different, and that I have the option to ‘adapt’ to a man, as Rori says.

    Talking to WM today it became clear that he is aware that I have the ideas first, and that energy flows from me to him in the relationship.
    He was aware of the difficulties of my situation – in which I am the one asking that he initiate (and therefore I am initiating with my request), and I am the one suggesting that HE be the one to make the suggestions!!

    I don’t know that I want to adapt to this dynamic in the long term. I’m feeling more and more adrift and drained and defeated. Losing vibrancy in myself.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:40pm

  12. 12: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    CaptainCD and I met again this weekend; he invited me to his place and I stayed until yesterday night…

    I see things clearly and I am still cding; Captain was so sweet and my suspicions of him hiding something went away when he invited me over… he is just a man who doesn’t know yet where things are going and me pressuring him to know will not help. So I am going to keep what I am doing…

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:47pm

  13. 13: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ April Rose THANKS!

    I’m just no good at this… it’s too hard.. I try and I’m just tired…overwhelmed and depressed! I don’t know if I’m coming or going…

    “M” texted me… I have meditation now… oh he just e-mails me.. and then I’m like what do I tell my child about our trip in 2days.. I just said are we still going on Thursday I need to tell E…

    he said I have meditation now…

    part of me just wants to do no contact… for a few days… not to control but b/c I don’t know what else to do… or not do…

    I don’t know about adapting to a man…that almost sounds like changing myself to suit him… I love a good banter and so does he… but if it is to create distance that is altogether a different story…

    I think Dominique is right… this one is just too hard… I need easy.. but as soon as I say that then part of me says wait, most of the time it is easy…..

    I want to hide in a cave until I’m too old to worry about a relationship… and just cry and cry and cry.. until there is nothing left to cry…

    I feel screwed


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:48pm

  14. 14: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I’m reposting here something that Femininwoman wrote on the last thread.

    I’m reading it as a feeling message to myself, to remind me of what makes my heart feel peaceful.
    And I agree with you. I want my relationship to feel easy.

    ““…A girl needs cuddles and kisses and constant communication and closeness because you need to feel his energy coming towards you. A girl needs touching and laughter to feel connected and the distance and long silences feel like disconnection to you.”

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:57pm

  15. 15: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I’m learning to feel clearer and clearer on what it is I want.
    And staying open to receiving that.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 3:58pm

  16. 16: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Each lightbulb moment, each jigsaw piece of clarity – from Rori, from you women – is a jewel that feels oh so precious. I’m collecting these gems in a bowl in my heart… and they are showing me who I am.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:02pm

  17. 17: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @AprilRose is that a suggestion to say to him?

    Here is the thing… I see him 3-4 times a week… and talk on the phone maybe one night we don’t see each other… it depends..

    I get cuddles and touches and laughter and hand holding and kisses and wonderful love making and he has sacrificed so much for this relationship… ie lack of sleep, lost income, meditation and etc…

    So, if I say that to him, he might feel that he isn’t doing enough…

    I think the issue is that I feel his need to escape… and he acts out when he doesn’t get it… so that is what the issue is, not that I don’t get all those things from him, when I’m around him…

    I wish I had a script for that…

    Thanks! April


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:03pm

  18. 18: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    1078: Femininewoman says:

    What do I most deeply desire to experience with my beloved?

    What do I most deeply desire to contribute to the world through this partnership?

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:09pm

  19. 19: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I am sinking deeper into this sadness and this doing nothing …

    I got back in bed and am tapping videos. So many things I was so worked up about that now just feel like words …

    Seeing how futile it was to try to fit myself into conventional relationship molds … they just don’t fit …

    Most of the people I know are still doing now what they were doing three years ago … while nothing I was doing then seems to fit me anymore … there’s no going back and I don’t know where the road goes from here …

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:10pm

  20. 20: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I just have to add to this conversation that solid secures feel put off by the “pulling” and “pushing” behavior of those who are very anxious and unable to take responsibility for their feelings.

    Very anxious attachers will cause secures to appear and even feel avoidant.

    This is especially true for secures who have a lot of responsibility and/or a lot of emotional things they are going through or stress etc. Secures who don’t have much else on their plate are more able to provide the comfort and extra attention than an anxious attacher needs.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:13pm

  21. 21: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    No I didn’t mean it as something to say to him. Not at all. I was trying to discover if you felt the same way I do.
    I see now that you have what you want – when you are together.

    I feel surprised and delighted and somewhat envious that you and he share those things together.

    Yet, there is something troubling you….
    Do you love him more than he loves you? Or are you just needy? Lol

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:13pm

  22. 22: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    #14 – I don’t know that I can agree with the constant communication and closeness part; this feels like pressure, demands, yet consistent communication and closeness, yes.


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:16pm

  23. 23: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Yes Dominique,

    That feels better, replacing ‘constant’ with consistent.
    Constant communication and closeness could feel stifling.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:22pm

  24. 24: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so weird, and like screaming. I am thinking of starting a weekly ‘screaming, venting or simply sulking’ session for women in the town where I live.

    Half an hour of letting out the misery, followed by tea and biscuits and laughter.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:25pm

  25. 25: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    This post triggered me. I feel angry about my own situation. I initiated no contact in order to stop overfunctioning. However, now, after nearly two years of following Rori’s programs/rules/etc., I feel differently than I ever have about this process. I feel that when I don’t hear from a man that I am not his priority, that there are other more important things/people in his life. And that is fine, his little red wagon – push it or pull. BUT I deserve to be a priority . . . so if I’m not hearing from him (regardless to the time frame), that makes room for me to give time to someone who wants to make me his PRIORITY. . . several someones. The timeline is up to me. That was the most important part of Rori’s response in this post – that Barb must decide the time period. The no contact rule works against men in my opinion. It is a risk not to contact a woman he is interested in – he loses his place in her rotation of men.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:27pm

  26. 26: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    And I deal with urgency every day, the thought of him, the memories, and I push them away, I scream in my head out out out (I would fit in fine with your group April Rose 😀 ), and as the moment passes, I feel better and urgency dies down. I feel a little bit stronger every time.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:30pm

  27. 27: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Are you getting out and having fun and smiling at men and letting them heal you?

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:36pm

  28. 28: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose, I would come to that group if I lived near you. :) <3

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:37pm

  29. 29: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Melanie

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:38pm

  30. 30: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    Has my picker been off? Has my boy been picking the men? Have I ignored the red flags too often? Perhaps the answer to each question is yes, but the more important factor is that My Needs have not been met by any of the men who I’ve involved myself with in my later adult life – the most omnipotent needs is man who is evolved ALREADY. Not someone who wants to be, or recognizes or pretends to be evolved, but someone who is already there and can teach me a few things. Odd, perhaps, but this is a breakthrough for me!! It changes my boundaries, foundation, lifestyle, everything. I FELT this, and then the thought came to mind. . . WOW!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:38pm

  31. 31: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t feel like analyzing anything or anyone … all these concepts feel dizzying and separating … I feel like “rules” and concepts just get in the way of connection … nobody else has to feel the same way I do … I’m just expressing …

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:38pm

  32. 32: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – yes, everyday, and it makes me feel good, but I want more, I need more, and I’m going to do more, because I feel like I’m just scratching the surface cding, I want deeper more rooted experiences, experimenting, exploring, expressing . . . lol, you get the idea 😀

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:40pm

  33. 33: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Boundaries feel different to me … like, I don’t want to private message with men who aren’t supporting me financially … that’s not a “rule” and it can evolve over time … it’s just a boundary that works for me right now …

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:40pm

  34. 34: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I don’t understand can you explain?

    I’m a secure… and yes under stress some anxious comes out… a secure…



    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:41pm

  35. 35: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Half an hour of letting out the misery, followed by tea and biscuits and laughter.

    hahahaha, April Rose, wish I lived there!!!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:43pm

  36. 36: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    Oops missed new thread and didn’t have time to read all in old one…

    Off to the forest

    1615: Senior Lady Vibe says:

    @1393: Tereana

    @1394: Femininewoman
    Oh, I just make up my own rituals. I’m doing one involving key lime pie and a walk in the forest. Yum!


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:42pm

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:44pm

  37. 37: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Could be true I might love him more than he loves me…

    am I if anything I’m more independent… as a superwoman mom… but I’m working on it…

    and he is going through lots of stuff… grief he hasn’t dealt with, and now I find out his Dad has skin cancer all over his face and chest… so given what he is going through… he is scared..

    I don’t want to get into his head, but that would be my guess…

    I can ask him if he thinks I’m needy…

    and just b/c I feel the need to say this… I feel I do take responsibility for me feelings, and actions as I’ve shown on this blog, by my looking at myself and healing and also taking responsibility for my actions…even today… realizing that I might have been not leaning back in the correct way…

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:46pm

  38. 38: Miss BellsNo Gravatar says:

    I wonder if the eight weeks to be missed applies if I am in a relationship. Shouldn’t he miss me when I travel or go to my house for a few days?
    He always calls pretty fast. I am confused about the eight weeks.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:51pm

  39. 39: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I really would like to know if there is something you see in me that I’m not taking responsibility for… b/c as of now.. I’m ripe looking to look at things and really ready to heal them.. plus I’m getting ready to lose “M”…

    He just e-mailed me and said let’s cancel the trip…

    So,please, let me know if there is something you see…



    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:54pm

  40. 40: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    What up sirens? I’m feeling gooooood today!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 4:58pm

  41. 41: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I also feel hungry

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:00pm

  42. 42: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    Did he say why he wants to cancel the trip?

    I could be wrong but it does seem to me that you are too focused on analyzing him and trying to label him.

    What if you focused more on Rori’s tools . . . sinking into your feelings, speaking from there…. ? How do you FEEL?


    ~ Melanie

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:09pm

  43. 43: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Well I wasn’t analyzing him when we were talking about the book… I was speaking in vague terms as if, I’m just interested in the book…. and he ask me what I thought he was, and I said I don’t know.. I took the test for me not to analyze you..I didn’t take the test until late last night just b/c he ask…

    I did send him the link b/c I didn’t want him to think it was the God’s word… and the article was positive.. but! your right I might be trying to analyze me and him and everything so I can feel safe….that i’ll admit…

    he just said we have some serious talking to do… before we all go on a trip…

    thanks for your bluntness…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:23pm

  44. 44: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I like this … “I have absolutely no idea what’s going on for him”

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:29pm

  45. 45: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    true! I have not idea what is going on for him…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:30pm

  46. 46: ElsieNo Gravatar says:


    OK – You just said that you wanted people to be honest with you…..if there is something we see. Lisa, I see a man who is avoidant by the Attached book. I know people on here dont like labels. But sometimes someone is that label and thats a fact. And he admitted it. And the thing with avoidant attached is that they dont WANT to change – which is also what he said.

    I think this is who he is. Just like GS for me. This IS who he is. His family crisis, his meditation, his rest, his moods…..they are all more important than you. Now if that is something that you can live with then, I say be with him. The problem is that it doesnt seem like you like HIM very much. You like the way you wish he was a LOT. But that isnt how he is. Its not how he ever was. And it will probably never be him.

    I dont see anything that shows me that he is going to be anyhting different. He has a life that he is living. He isnt making room for you except when he wants to make room. I only know this because, well, its what Ijust went through with GS.

    My suggestion to you is that you circular date right now, and let him know you are doing so. It will get your mind off of all of this, and he will either step up, or you wont care anymore.

    Thats my opinion, I hope it doesnt trigger you – I really do care about you – and I see a lot of my situation in yours..

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:31pm

  47. 47: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I agree b/c he said we needed to have a seirous talk but only after his friend leaves..

    I send him a message and say that “I’m feeling weird b/c I don’t feel I have a say in when we talk, it is better for me to talk now. I have a phone appt at 9:30. Can you please call now?”

    I haven’t heard back… part of me wants to call him b/c my daughter’s feelings are involved here.. but I guess that is leaning forward…

    So, I guess I have to wait…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:35pm

  48. 48: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Question for all of you from me regarding leaning forward. CollegeCD asked me if I would ever ask him on a date which I mentioned on here before, that I wouldnt.

    I have never texted him first ever except one time when I really needed help with a computer problem.

    He had to stay up really late for a work project (really late!) and then I know he had mindless trainings today, and has a sunburn.

    I have thought about him all day, and wondered if I could text him that I was thinking of him.

    I”m new to all of this so I’m thinking that ANY time you text first its leaning forward. So, I”m REALLY hesitant to EVER do it.

    We spent 7 hours on Friday, and then he texted me all day Sat and all day Sunday (I never initiated.)

    So, I can take it or leave it – texting him. I would love for him to know that I was thinking about him but then again, I want to lean back so he can fill the space.

    I dont want to seem TOO eager, but want to let him know I was thinking of him.

    Thoughts? (By the way, I”m totally not concerned about this – it feels interesting and easy, just feel more curious about all of your answers more than anything.) :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:39pm

  49. 49: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – I do understand. I have children that were involved too with GS. I get it. He has said he isnt going on the trip. I think for your sake and your daughters sake, instead of waiting for HIM to call YOU……YOU JUST MAKE THE DECISION FOR YOURSELF.

    Just move on and make the decision this minute to circular date and then it wont matter what he says to you on the phone. Or if he even calls. Or even emails back that he will call. Or wont call. Or has to meditate. Or has to go see his family. Or has to go to the bathroom. :) Whatever :) You will have made the decision for yourself. I think part of the problem is that you feel helpless and that you have given this man so much power over you and your daughter and your happiness. Please know I”m talking from total experience here. Please come over to my side……I have a glass of wine waiting here for you – its a good side to be on. :) I promise. :) LOL

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:41pm

  50. 50: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    I just realized he said he will have a talk with you when his friend leaves. That sounds like a parent talking to a child.

    “I will talk with you when I’m done over here….”

    It sounds like he almost relishes the fact that he has this power over you. Maybe even unconsciously. I know that GS really likes that he has a power over me. He doesnt like it when I take that back.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:43pm

  51. 51: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’m not mad or frustrated with you, no and triggers only lead me to look at myself…

    I’m looking at what you said… I can find some truth in it…

    and I’ll continue to look at it…

    the difference is with me… is that I don’t have chemistry with “M”.. I don’t have the oxycodon thing… and 4 days a week spending time with me… isn’t bad… but there is an element of me not being a priority and it could be that he is feeling that I’m wanting more from him than he can give right now… like GS I guess..

    {{{ Hugs }}}


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:48pm

  52. 52: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – the general rule i get re texting (and this isn’t just from rori raye’s stuff, but from male relationship coaches too) is not to send a nothing text, or a reaching out text, in the “courtship” stage. It’s ok and advisable to do this when you’re actually in a relationship, but during the first few dates it’s generally just let him do all the work. But of course you can do what you want :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:57pm

  53. 53: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Ugh. I shouldnt have. I just shouldnt have.

    I just checked and he is online on right now.

    I just shouldnt have checked. Ugh.

    He isnt doing anything wrong. I just wish he weren’t on there.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 5:59pm

  54. 54: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Ugh, I’m just going to say in feeling messages that I feel very uncomfortable and frustrated about the labeling of attachment styles…. Just my own feelings… :(

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:00pm

  55. 55: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    … which is really ironic since I am currently working on writing some attachment style assessments. :) *laughing at myself a little*

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:01pm

  56. 56: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @MMM – Have you read the book attached?

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:02pm

  57. 57: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    May I just say, I don’t like labels… I didn’t like being called ugly growing up, didn’t like being called a battered wife, and I didn’t like being labeled with PTSD…. which I don’t have now…

    and I was just reading the book so I could understand… it wasn’t meant to label anyone…

    and I’m laughing with you…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:07pm

  58. 58: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie, yes, I read it when it first came out, along with other books and attachment studies through the years.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:10pm

  59. 59: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – Ok thats good to know. He and I knew each other 20 years ago in college, so he isnt a stranger to me, but this is definitely a “courtship” period of time between us now since we were only ever friends in college. :)

    I am feeling I think…….I think I feel rejected. Isnt that silly? So silly. I guess I feel like our magical Friday and the whole magical texting over the weekend is somehow ruined because he would rather be on instead of texting me now. Huh. Why do I feel that way? He himself said that all of his matches on were duds… why is he back there after not having been on for 4 days?

    I feel like ….. OH! I feel like maybe I wasnt enough, and he is still searching. Thats how I feel. How silly is it that my negative voices have already started to kick in. Interesting.

    Go ahead CollegeCD. Look on You wont find anyone on there like me for you. :)

    There is part of me that wants to text him now. Maybe to distract him from But I also do want to see how his day went. I know he must hve been up very late and had training all day. But I guess he isnt TOO tired, if he is on right? LOL.

    Thoughts? I want to use all my tools and be very healthy in this one realtionship, so please tell me your thoughts. :)

    Ironically, I”m not a mess at all. I”m more curious about my feelings more than anything else.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:12pm

  60. 60: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – you need to get out and get more men in your funnel, and circular date properly (at least 3 remember!) you’re going down the laser focus path which is the opposite of what CD’ing is about.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:28pm

  61. 61: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – why he is on there is not your concern, and not your business (sorry if that is harsh). If you’re not able to go on there without checking if he’s been online, maybe you should stay off there and use a different online dating service..

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:30pm

  62. 62: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – one question though, does have an app that you can install on your phone? Beacuse I know with other sites they do, and it will notify you if you get a message from someone etc. So maybe he has an app, received a message or some sort of notification, and that’s why he’s on there. Some of them even show people as constantly online when the apps just installed.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:32pm

  63. 63: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Go me.

    I just cancelled my subscription to I was only on there to lurk and look around anyway, I am not ready for that yet. But in doing so, I found CollegeCD was on there – months and months ago.

    The point is that now, in the last week, I have used it to “check up” on him.

    I already dont like how I feel about that. He can do whatever he wants.

    So I just cancelled my account. I cant get on anymore. I dont want to have those bad feelings.

    If he wants to be with me he can be with me if he doesnt he doesnt. I am not going to guess what he is thinking and make myself feel bad in the process by continuing to look to see if he is on or not.

    Done. :) I feel better already about MYSELF.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:37pm

  64. 64: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – I’m not sure if has that or not – and dont care. :)

    I took your advice before you even gave it. I gave that same advice to myself as I was taking a bubble bath.

    I know what happened between us on Friday, and the fact that he texted me non stop all weekend.

    Go ahead. Let him look on He wont find anyone else on there like me. LOL!!!!

    At the same time, I do feel a twinge of rejection…, why is he on there, when he could be calling me, or texting me, etc.

    I just decided I didnt want to be the girl that would check up on a guy on – so I’m not. :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:39pm

  65. 65: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “I have absolutely no idea what is going on for him.”

    Unless he tells me, and even then I’m hearing it through my own filters.

    I can only receive miracles if I leave open the possibility that I’m wrong about all my judgments and my fears and my pessimism and my labels.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:50pm

  66. 66: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – we’re in sync!! well done :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:52pm

  67. 67: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I love that, Erika.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:52pm

  68. 68: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “Here’s what is going through the uninterested man’s mind when a woman calls him first.

    “Hi, Jacob, this is Angie. I just called to say hi.”
    Oh, what’s this all about? She must like me a lot more than I did her. Maybe there’s something about her that turns men off, or she would not need to be calling me up. She obviously doesn’t have guys after her.

    When You Don’t Call, You Raise His Perception Of Your Desirability

    Here’s the truth, and one that men instinctively know: a busy, sought after, desirable and desired woman will not have the time or the need to call a man with some flimsy and desired woman will not have the time or the need to call a man with some flimsy. The desirable woman knows that she is a rare jewel. ”

    From Mimi Tanner’s Calling Men guide

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:53pm

  69. 69: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Can you please call now?”

    This feels yuck.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:57pm

  70. 70: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel irritated by the contact with houseEx, still. I feel irritated and resentful that he’s trying to control me, tell me what to do, i feels like he’s trying to manipulate me to get his way. I feel resentful because it reminds me of how much I put up with when I was with him. He is the same person, I am not. I am not the same person I was when I was with him. So it’s ok to feel this way. I love my irritation. Our relationship was a purposeful one, and it served its purpose. I feel grateful for the lessons our relationship showed me. I forgive myself. I feel confident the universe will unbind us at the perfect moment.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:58pm

  71. 71: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – great minds think alike. I already feel better.

    I have decided to go to bed early. If he texts me, I am not answering. Not to be mean, or snarky, but I just need some sleep. :)

    @Feminine Woman – LOVE it. Perfect. Exactly.

    Thanks!!! And I’m so glad I didnt text to ask about his day. I really wanted to know – and it probably would have been ok, but it would have gone against my “I’m not rowing the boat” speech.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 6:59pm

  72. 72: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – I usually have a time in the evening that I use as a cut off (usually around 9/9:30). I’ll put my phone on silent and plug it in to charge and any texts I get after that point I don’t answer till the morning.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:04pm

  73. 73: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – when my soon to be ex husband is acting like a jack*** I think to myself “Thanks!!!! Thank you for the gift – the gift of reminding me once again why I am not with you!” :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:04pm

  74. 74: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I just don’t like applying these concepts. It feels exhausting. If my intuition says to call, and I don’t, it’s kinda like if I want to eat a piece of chocolate, and I don’t … all it does is increase the craving …

    I don’t know if the recent guy I was with was applying some kind of “tactics and strategies” but it sure felt like he was. I noticed some months in to our conversations that he would repeat back almost everything I said and not add anything to it. I asked him if he knew he was doing this, and he said yes. I don’t know what was going on for him, but as time went on, things felt so inauthentic that it would not surprise me at all if he was actually using psychological “tactics” to win me over …

    I’m not going to make assumptions yet in our last conversation right before I removed him from my life, he actually said that what he did while I was traveling that felt so awful to me was an “experiment” …

    It wasn’t what he said or did that felt awful, it was the energy behind it. And my sense is that any kind of manipulating what we do and say instead of doing what feels authentic can turn into really weird-feeling energy on the receiving end. I also get that we are changing dysfunctional patterns here so we may want to get still and present before reaching out, we may want to try out new ways of being … yet I feel very skeptical of “rules” designed to make us appear “more attractive.” It just feels so inauthentic and separating to me. Nobody has to agree with me, this is just how I feel.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:06pm

  75. 75: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: I listened to a GREAT call this morning with Lisa Nichols and this was what really resonated with me:

    “She also shared the three types of relationships experienced in life: Lifetime, where the relationship stays with us; Life-Giving, which is often short-term and can be from one day to two years; and Purposeful, which have a divine purpose or several purposes, and when the purpose is complete, the relationship ends.

    “Life-giving can be a chance encounter, but we have the most challenge with purposeful. We could have met that person in order to start a business, or for children to be born, or to find our voice,” Nichols said. “The quality of your life-long partnership depends on how much completion work you did on the past relationships because otherwise you are bringing all that in.””

    When I view my past relationships as purposeful, which they were, it makes it a lot easier to be ok with it all. And that’s what i have to keep in mind when dealing with my ex… I think. Just trust that if there is still something I need to learn with all this, I’ll learn it, and then he’ll be gone for good!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:07pm

  76. 76: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – well, I have never had a cut off but he usually texts around 8:30 to 9:30 but I never talk past 10:15pm or so – we seem to both go to bed around then.

    But I am fussy tonight because he could have texted me and didnt.

    I am feeling the magic of the weekend wearing off even though he has done nothing wrong.

    Why do I feel like that? Huh. I wonder.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:07pm

  77. 77: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I agree with you, Erika. :) In fact, I just texted a guy. I think when there is obsessive energy behind the “not calling,” it’s actually worse. I think they can feel it.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:09pm

  78. 78: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Zia I have been listening into that Summit also. I posted some of what Lisa said in the last thread.

    Really empowering

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:11pm

  79. 79: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Actually, I take that back … it was ALSO what he said and what he did that felt awful – like the forced candlelight dinner and the super presumptuous email.

    What I’m saying is that even when he was not contacting me or “playing it cool,” it still felt really weird because (as it turned out) he was not being authentic at all …

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:12pm

  80. 80: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Erika ” yet I feel very skeptical of “rules” designed to make us appear “more attractive.” It just feels so inauthentic and separating to me.”

    I hear you on this one. I started with Rori’s stuff (and everything for that matter) as a way to be more attractive, and to win my ex back. That was my purpose in beginning it. However, the more I progressed and the further I went on this path, the more it turned into what *I* want. And so I have been picking and choosing things that I want to use to make me a better person for me… to be happier in my skin, to be less anxious, more solid and grounded. I don’t like game playing or manipulating when it comes to relationships – and people who do this will find themselves reverting back to their old ways eventually, because they’re doing it for reasons other than what they want for themselves. That’s how I feel on the matter :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:12pm

  81. 81: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    76 Elsie – this is just my opinion, but it feels like that’s simply because your focus is shifting to him too much. Again, CD, go out, meet men, get more in the funnel, focus on yourself. Then you’ll be surprised and delighted to hear from him because your life is so full of great things, you’re not spending time wondering what he’s thinking.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:14pm

  82. 82: ViNo Gravatar says:

    I feel squeezed in the left side of my chest when I think of having my needs met.. Hiding behind fights and convincing feels so much more easier… Feeling like a victim and resentment feel so much easier… than guilt. I love me, I love my guilt

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:14pm

  83. 83: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Guilt feels like softness and my tummy relaxed

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:17pm

  84. 84: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – I agree. However, I think I sort of do a “fake it until you make it” kind of thing. :)

    Last week, he texted me during the weekend for a bit, and then I didnt hear from him until Wednesday. But the point is that I didnt really worry about it at all.

    I feel more attached because of what happened last weekend. But you are 100% right.

    So because I feel this way, I’m going to fake it until I make it- meaning I am going to act like the girl I really really want to be.

    Just like how I got off of because thats the girl I want to be. :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:19pm

  85. 85: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    Ugh. I just had a difficult night with my family. But “difficult” in a different way than I’m used to. It feels cathartic and healing in a way. Like I’m getting closer to them, not further apart. Though for a minute there, I wanted to be very far away. But I stayed with myself. And I’m still here.

    And I’m so happy there’s a new thread! Already, I’ve gotten several “nuggets” from this one…

    The 8 weeks. Wow! That’s like 2 whole months!! But I think she’s right. And that gives me a lot of peace of mind. That, combined with the idea that “not calling” raises your ‘desirability’ factor for a man…well, I might just hold off on contacting the CCB for a little bit longer. ; ) I can always apply the ‘CTFD’ method…(from last thread)

    And the idea that your man could wake up, feeling like he’s won the lottery. Yeah, that’s the best. I’m going to take that one home : ) because I AM the lottery! I am the JACKPOT! If a man has “won” me, he couldn’t get any luckier!! :-)


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:19pm

  86. 86: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And if I am “laser focused” yet I’m using it to heal all my “stuff,” how do I know that’s bad? At least then I’m going to be authentically laser focused. I’m gonna own it. There are different ways to get ourselves healed and whole, and sometimes different phases of our healing call for different ways of being.

    When I kept looking for “Mr. Right” in the next guy and the next guy and the next guy, I was healing a lot of stuff and yet I was also avoiding a lot of stuff … so later something else was needed.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:26pm

  87. 87: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yes Zia, that resonates with me. It’s about finding an authentic way of being that feels honest and is sustainable and also gets us what we want.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:28pm

  88. 88: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Ok – Why do I feel like him being on invalidates our whole weekend? Thats weird right?

    I think its because I wanted him to feel like it was SO magical and special – as magical and special as he made it seem to me that night and all weekend long with his texts – that he wouldnt go on

    Huh. I wonder what to do with these feelings.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:31pm

  89. 89: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – it’s control again. You want him to feel a certain way… you don’t know why he was on there, and you don’t know if he felt that way.. maybe he did. But he’s a man, men a different. He’s not you :)

    Go back to holding your hand into a fist, then opening it up and letting go. It’s all about the need to control x

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:33pm

  90. 90: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    WHAT!!! OMG !!!!!

    Thank you OMG – that is so perfect and so right. I totally feel that need to control the situaion.

    And I LOVED it when I didnt control and he texted me. And he asked me out – and he wanted to pick me up – and he opened my doors, and pulled out my chairs, etc etc etc…..

    I love it when I dont control.


    I wish you were here I would give you a beer. :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:39pm

  91. 91: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – I would love to have a beer with you!! During my own journey, I realised there were so many ways I was trying to show control, but all in my own head! It was wishing he’d do this, or wondering why he didn’t do that.. it all got very tiring. So I do understand what you’re going through. It’s also why taking the focus off him works so well, because you’re so busy doing things you love that you forget about all that. Hope you sleep well tonight :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:50pm

  92. 92: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – I will totally sleep well.

    I guess I just wanted him to think that what we had over the weekend was so magical and special and our connection was so great and our chemistry was so awesome that he would not go on anymore.

    Maybe he still does. I dont know.

    Time will tell right? :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:53pm

  93. 93: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    T was off at an event for the week and called me as soon as he got in, he couldn’t wait to talk to me.
    Which felt good and sweet, and he was more exuberant in expressing his affection than usual :)
    We talked about his new romantic interest, he was so sweet, talking about how he wanted to be gentle with my heart, and wanted me to know that our connection will never go away and anyone who comes into his life will need to know how special I am to him.
    I felt clear and open, hearing him talk about her.
    He’s totally living the dream…

    I talked to him about how it was clear to me that we really do want different things, romantically. His new interest is all about leaving things open and being flowy about time, she’s driving an hour to meet him and spend time with him, he isn’t lifting a finger.
    I like plans in advance, and consistency about time, it feels better for me, and driving long distances to meet a man I just met and not having clear agreements about sex and all that…just not working for me. I’m happy for him (Mostly, only a little twinge).
    We laughed about how much more relaxed we feel now that we dropped trying to convince each other we were going to be the person with the relationship the other wanted.
    It felt …calm.

    He also said that he believes C is possibly afraid I might have been preparing to accuse him of sexual harassment when I asked him to stop using a particular word.

    I believe that’s possible, and yet, if he that were true, I don’t think he would have put himself alone in a room with me.

    I keep repeating…I care, and I let it go. I care about this, and I set it free. I care, I really really care, and I let it go. It’s ok It’s ok It’s ok It’s gonna be ok.

    I don’t know what else to do. It doesn’t feel right to approach him or D, I don’t know why. I kind of feel like I don’t have a right or something, maybe I won’t like what I will hear, or …I don’t know, I just hate to bring this stuff up at work and I don’t talk to them outside of work.
    I would LOVE some advice on this.

    I feel like a huge part of the drama is the guilt and judgment I feel for feeling so attracted to C.

    Again…idk so I’m just going to throw my hands up for the night, give it to the powers that be, and get my mind clear before I sleep tonight.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 7:57pm

  94. 94: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – isnt this always the way? I just let go – opened myhands and blew…..

    And guess who just texted me. LOL.

    I’m in bed for the night so I’ll text him tomorrow. I’m too tired to start a conversation now. :)

    Thanks for all the help Zia – not sure where you live, but I would totally buy you a beer for your help tonight! :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:03pm

  95. 95: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Good evening ladies. I realize and I just felt that if I could give of myself enough it would make up for all the the other things I lack to carry my weight in a relationship. I am not talking but nearly touching on the fact of past disappointments and injustices in my life have made me withdrawn and unsure about how I am to be happy and feel I have something worthy to offer. So the thing that I focus on is my heart. I know what love is and I am good at being devoted. I may not be able to process if it is ultimately being reciprocated properly at times. The rest I feel I will just pay attention and cross that bridge when it comes.

    I have plans for a future but at present I am in a civil matter over an estate that is being settled so for the past few months I have been taking time to simply be… What I am experiencing is the desire to be more productive now. Because I know that when I have a anterior focus..”I.e” work ,, then I have an avenue to focus on something that is rewarding mentally… That is good for me. But I feel like I want to be that way for my my angelface to. So they will feel like I am productive. I am not a lazy individual by nature but I have let myself sit and wait for things to get settled for me financially and I know if I have that outlet it will make a difference. And I want to feel like I’m something they can be proud of, not just because I want it but just as much because I feel they need to feel that for me too. just feel like I would really like to have a smile kiss and a long hug. Mmm that would be so nice. I also have an appointment Thursday to check on some long awaited finalization to a very important matter for me so I feel excited about that…
    You all are awesome<3

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:04pm

  96. 96: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – YAY! I’m in Australia… if I’m ever in your area of the world I’ll look you up 😉

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:07pm

  97. 97: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Zia – Hey!!!! I have tons of Aussie and Kiwi friends!

    Have you ever been to London? I’ve been to the Church there. If you have ever been to London you KNOW what I’m talking about. (How cool am I now?) LOL!!!!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:08pm

  98. 98: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I am really excited that I can still love so much a person and know that not only do I do the things I am being to do, I do for me but also for us.. Yes that feels freaking awesome.. I deserve a cigarettes :-D:-D

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:11pm

  99. 99: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Relationship is over!

    I’m ok! I’m glad it’s over… I feel relieved…

    He realized that when he took the test that he is avoiding the relationship and has been resisting spending more time with me and spending the night with me… and he says he knows I deserve better… and more than what he wants to give me…

    I’m sad, but I’m feeling relieved… and I know my friends will too, b/c they knew I needed to let him go…

    I think I knew that today too when I read the part in the book where it says that I need to hang on to my story about men not being emotionally available that is why I attract it to me…

    I told him I love him no matter what… and that I felt loved more by him than any man…

    So, I’m back online again tomorrow! Going to get myself back out there… whether or not I want to or not…

    love to you all!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:11pm

  100. 100: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I had a memory. I had been married for about 10 years and bought a book. It was ‘The idiot’s Guide to Verbal Self-Defense’………………….. I got it because I couldn’t come up with anything to say when my ex said such yucky things to me. I read a bit of it and then I really put my mind to coming up with witty one liners designed to cut. It took awhile…………. years really. In the end, I got better at it but never to the point it made any difference. I have been listening to my words and have been letting go more and more of that kind of conversation. It feels mean. It feels dark and I don’t want to do that anymore. I will speak from only my heart, which is the truth and very very freeing. I feel good with this. Thank you

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:13pm

  101. 101: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – I’m so glad to hear you are doing well. This man did love you – he does love you. He gave you a gift just like GS gave me. He knows he cant be what you need – maybe ever – maybe just right now.

    I’m so glad that you are going to start fresh tomorrow!!!!! Yay!!!! go you.

    I’m sorry you went through this but I’m really proud of your journey and feel honored that you chose to share it. (hugs!)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:14pm

  102. 102: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Lisa – this feels exciting :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:17pm

  103. 103: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Oh Lisa!!! Good for you sweet siren! Lisa juice is the best! Happy CDing to you:)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:18pm

  104. 104: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks @Elsie I feel calm and empowered… and since he was breaking up with me…

    I told him also how I wasn’t a priority enough and that if I commit to a man I have requirements to be a priority…

    He doesn’t think he loves me, he says he cares about me… I think he loves me…

    but really I’m relieved b/c I just was settling and I knew that and actually posted it a few times… I was settling..

    I told him that a man I’m with has to have a natural desire to know me, know what my day was like, and have a natural interest in what I’m interested in… he never did! He forced himself to…

    I told my friend Doc a few months ago I had doubts… and my therapist has known I’ve had doubts for the entire time I was with him… I was ready to break up for a long while… b/c of his self absorption.

    and he said “Your a Secure and it makes sense you are looking for what your looking for and that you should have it”…

    I told him, I’m not looking to be friends… and I’m not… that would be too hard for me..

    Elsie I wish we were closer too! and I don’t drink wine ( I’m allergic) but I would love to sit and have a drink with you… chat… get a hug, right now I need one!

    I never felt good enough for him… and I tolerated it… he would say things to me about people with low income.. etc… I told him that tonight…that I never felt I was in the right social class for him… and I noticed he never said anything about it…

    I’m done! I think I’ve been done and was trying to work it out and I thought if I used the tools it would.. but he just isn’t the right one for me… and I’m so open and ready for the right one! Dear God! I’m so ready!!!! I’ve worked on myself for so long to be ready for the right one!

    Bring him on!

    Love to you Elsie! <3

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:26pm

  105. 105: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, what a relief – yay! :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:31pm

  106. 106: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “M” and GS and “Felt Unsafe” Guy have all been let go … lol … who’s next? I’m just teasing, it feels like a huge relief to see all these guys go …

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:32pm

  107. 107: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Erika it is a relief but also sucks! I’m just not sure I’m wanting to date 54 men again!

    UGG… the expense the time.. etc…

    but if you want it you have to go through what it takes to get it…


    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:37pm

  108. 108: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Well I called today twice and text them also, but I never heard anything back. I, so I decided to go see them tomorrow because I just don’t understand his words to me sometimes. And he knows we need communication and so if I have to be the masculine one I’m going to go claim them

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:42pm

  109. 109: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    well … we’ll see. I didn’t date in law school at least not the first two years. I went straight into relationship with my ex. I’m asking God and the angels to help me skip dating again lol :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:42pm

  110. 110: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Mejor sola que mal acompañada

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:43pm

  111. 111: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – yes I’ve been to london… and I have family who live in Kent. Have been wanting to do a round the world trip sometime in the next couple of years… visit them and then head over to Canada to visit some other friends there :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:48pm

  112. 112: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Seahorse are u having an issue?

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:49pm

  113. 113: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – lots of love to you!

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:50pm

  114. 114: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa maybe you should talk to this man and tell him these things , I mean maybe he is reaching out bout understand some of these rules here because it’s new. Or maybe he tried to call or maybe he will call right now.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:56pm

  115. 115: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa maybe you should talk to this man and tell him these things , I mean maybe he is reaching out bout understand some of these rules here because it’s new. Or maybe he tried to call or maybe he will call right now.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 8:56pm

  116. 116: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Subscribing to new thread. Had a very busy, and good, wknd with H. Haven’t been able to keep up with the blog. Need to catch up.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:12pm

  117. 117: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I do love you more than I cam express, I wanted to come over but didn’t know if you want me to because u didn’t answer, I didn’t understand how to read things correctly. I will come with hugs now. What can I do. I feel so willing wanting your love to give you mine. Why is it so hard to just answer a phone or tell me in plain English. I said this to them

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:18pm

  118. 118: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 24,

    I have taken to getting my feelings from the day out when I am driving home from work in my car. It’s about a 40 minute drive and I’m alone in the car so no one to censor myself to, no reason to hold back. I’m not sure if it’s the traffic that triggers it, but I find myself crying, shouting, saying things, making noises and gestures that I never normally would, just to get my feelings and frustrations out. It feels awesome in a way…

    I shudder to think if some of the other drivers were to look over for too long, but I really don’t care :)

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:20pm

  119. 119: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie 48

    I posted my thoughts on texting first on the previous thread, near the bottom, if you are interested.

    I think it can work fine and won’t alter his feelings for you in any way, in fact it might serve to bring you a little closer together, as long as you are sensitive to the energy dynamic, and are doing it from a pure place.

    When I text first, I keep it really simple and don’t usually ask questions, so something like “I hope you are having a great day and are feeling better!”

    In my experience, guys love this. It makes them feel thought about and cared for, but there’s no pressure in it at all.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:30pm

  120. 120: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m coming to see you tomorrow… I don’t mind this but right now it is better to be able to talk without anything to confuse me. Goodnight! <3

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:33pm

  121. 121: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m coming to see you tomorrow… I don’t mind this but right now it is better to be able to talk without anything to confuse me. . Goodnight! <3 I love you

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 9:49pm

  122. 122: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Thank u indigo . I sent a couple post here but they haven’t posted yet it seems. I can’t text tonight o have no phone. Only email and he didn’t tell me that and his Facebook is closed. Tell her I love her he said

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 10:29pm

  123. 123: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    trigger! trigger! trigger! blam blam blam! sinking into these feelings and letting them go. over and over. thank you houseEx for being a lesson.

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:23pm

  124. 124: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    From the previous thread:
    April Rose – 1549 – Hello, what a sweet message : )

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:33pm

  125. 125: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Melanie- this dynamic feels familiar to me. I think my push pull, coupled with CW having an enormous amount of stress on his plate, plus the distance and all the driving back and forth, has made him more avoidant than he would normally be. Plus, I’m withholding, which is not helping.


    ((((((Lisa))))))) sad to read this, but your words sound strong. That feels good to read. <3

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:39pm

  126. 126: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Keep forgetting to subscribe

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:40pm

  127. 127: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel resentful, because I interpret his actions as a means to control and manipulate. What if I let that interpretation go? I don’t know what his intentions are. Focus on me. How I feel. It’s all about ME and not him. Huh. How bout that. I feel it letting go, letting go……

    Monday, 22 July 2013 @ 11:52pm

  128. 128: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    It’s 3am I felt good and calm and thought I was going to sleep… but the replay of the convo kept going… past the deep sleepy feelings and now to sleepliness…

    I feel anger now at him… like the time Mercedes threw something at him… I feel like smashing something… HOW dare him treat me like a second class person …. how dare I allow someone to treat me this way.. and i’m F;;;,king mad that he cancelled this trip with E my child and she is going to be upset and hurt.. she really liked “M” and always told me Mommy he is your miracle… you two were meant to be together… just out of the blue she would say that…

    I have to say though in all honesty.. I was so tired of crying over this relationship and the lost time with her and me and my garden and workouts….. all b/c of mind stuff trying to figure him out… and having to post so much.. not that I don’t love you guys… just that… I have a very busy life…

    I never felt he was telling me the truth about some things.. that didn’t feel good… the fact that he told me all kinds of things in the beginning and then come to find out they weren’t true… he was just so taken with me, that he had to win me… and from now on I’ll know that when a man has nothing else to talk about except how he won the lottery when he won you, then that is a HUGE sign that it’s all about my looks…and my body…. he kept on and on about my body… and being impressed with this and that none of which had anything to do with who I am….

    I listened to others when I should have listened to myself… I think women are too tolerant of men and I’m sorry but If I have to adapt myself that much to a man , then changing who I am , I don’t want it… sorry… if that is against the tools…

    I mean I could adapt to his need to have guns around for safety ( if he kept them in a safe when E wasn’t around) and I could adapt to his need to have complete darkness when sleeping and having to have dark curtains up.. and sleep with ear plugs…

    but he said he was into hiking, biking and other outdoor stuff and he lied… he isn’t anymore… he likes to stay inside all the time.. and that wouldn’t have worked for me… I know I’ve been there a thousand times with boyfriends…..

    it wouldn’t work for me to have a man that couldn’t accept that women sometimes have gas and sometimes have bugers in their nose.. we are all human come on! He didn’t like it if I had a little bit of mascara in the corner of my eyes… I let it go b/c I loved him and I chose love over his hangups about perfection…

    I let it go that he minimized my trauma in my life and made his sound so much more worse…and shut me up… and didn’t care how my day went or what I felt about thing… never asking me what I wanted..

    I can’t adapt to the point where i can’t be myself.. I love to banter and if my man doesn’t I’d have to stop being who I am …. “M” loved to banter… and that was good…

    he would create drama or arguments to create distance…this is why I said an avoidant wouldn’t work with an Secure… b/c anyone would get tired of someone creating drama and agruments for the sake of distancing…

    He knew I was a secure, he said that tonight, so apparently, he took the test for me also…

    I knew today when reading the book, and i read why anxious attract avoidants b/c it keeps their story in tact about men… I knew in that second that is what I needed to learn from “M”… and that it might very well be time to move on…

    I hear myself in bed tonight ( or this morning its 3a) saying HOW dare he think that what little he was giving me is enough…

    This is why I have a desire to run when things get dysfunctional… this very reason.. b/c I know it’s not healthy… not b/c I’m running from fear of triggers… b/c I cant’ deal with all this dysfunction…

    He is stuck in the past… and doesn’t realize now … what he had with me… he is still projecting it onto me…

    I love him but I’m an outdoors person who loves nature… he likes to stay inside all the time and I’d be like the people in the book always having to do things by myself in an effort to keep the relationship going… and that doesn’t feel good to me.. I’ve been though that with all my past partners..

    He had a high level of secrecy… and he feared women would take advantage of him and financially too… so he wouldn’t and didn’t give freely… he wanted something in return all the time… that didn’t feel good to me…

    I think looking back he is the one that is needy.. he needed me to tell him to go meditate, he needed me to feel sorry for him and what he went through, he needed me to bend backwards to make sure HE was comfortable…. so @FW was right he wanted a mommy.. THANK GOD I’m not it…

    and yet I’m still angry…not sure why… I think maybe b/c I stayed too long, I put up with way too much… and I didn’t listen to myself and I hurt my child in the process…

    I’m fuming mad about him doing that to my child…

    Not to trigger but he needed routine way, way too much! and since I attract AS men… lots of them b/c my Dad is AS… I wondered about that… and his lack of experience with relationships and women… so all in all, it’s a good thing… I just need to sleep and let the anger and hurt go… and get on with my life… have fun! enjoy the rest of my 50th year!

    and I hope God sends me a man that isn’t frustrated b/c I have Celiac… and I don’t drink or do Drugs…

    sorry for the long rant…. just need to get it out…and hopefully sleep!

    love to all

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 12:43am

  129. 129: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie 59

    I agree with Zia. The key with circular dating is that you must continue dating other men, the entire crux of it is not to focus on one man and what he is or isn’t doing. Trust me, if he is on match and it were me, I would be right along there with him on match chatting to other guys. I would so barely even THINK about a guy who is still active on his online dating profile. Date him, let him give to you, enjoy his texts, but from where I’m standing I would not be emotionally involved to the point that his being active on match would hurt me.

    The irony is, when you adopt this attitude, they suddenly seem to want you all to themselves. They suddenly get to commitment so much faster. This has happened several times with me.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:09am

  130. 130: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Erika 74

    “I just don’t like applying these concepts. It feels exhausting. If my intuition says to call, and I don’t, it’s kinda like if I want to eat a piece of chocolate, and I don’t … all it does is increase the craving …”

    I very much agree. And also, I don’t believe in force. I prefer the healthiness of energy flowing back and forth.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:13am

  131. 131: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Yet another potential for a fight with D that got beautifully resolved.

    I feel so lovely? in awe? of this.

    I felt terrible yesterday, standing up to my boss took it out of me. D messaged me early in the morning that he was very unwell and was in bed, and was going to try and get some sleep. The fever he said he thought he might have was very worrying to me, as I’ve had it before. And I couldn’t get through to him the rest of the day. At first, I felt hurt and a bit annoyed at being shut out, and then that turned to concern and finally worry.

    All day passed and I hadn’t heard a word about how he was. By 11 pm when I finally attempted to drift off into a fitful sleep, I had convinced myself that he must be lying in hospital without any access to his phone.

    Sigh. I know how it sounds, but it truly felt awful from my end :( Anyway, he sent me an e-mail around midnight to say he had just been sleeping, like he said he would.

    This morning, he said to me, what on earth were all those e-mails and texts about? I apologized unreservedly and said I was just concerned. The whole thing blew over, and after having his say, he was ok with me. Sigh :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:20am

  132. 132: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie 89,

    Men are not women.

    Please don’t make the mistake I’ve made SO many times of trying to make his thoughts fit into mine, as in, if I think that, he must think it too! If I can dream it up, it must be the thought foremost in his mind!

    God I’ve been there so many times. Finally I let go of wondering what they’re thinking altogether, and take what they say at face value. It feels great, I promise :)


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:31am

  133. 133: ruthNo Gravatar says:


    Lisa, I feel so relieved reading that your struggles are over with M

    Really relieved

    it seemed like far too much hard work for a great lady who has so much to give and deserves only the best

    Thank you also Ladies for the discussions on leaning back on the last thread

    It clarified a lot

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:38am

  134. 134: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Hugs to you Lisa… I dont know about avoidants and secures and the such but as I have read your posts (especially your last one)…. that ther were lots of things that were “off” with you and him. I wish you a flowing…consistent… happy… emotionally healthy relationship. Not settling for this one is making room for just that!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:04am

  135. 135: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo….i love the way you see things…you should be a coach!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:21am

  136. 136: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – please throw that attached book away. It sounds stupid. I took the quiz and my attachment style changes depending on what partner/date I’m thinking about. These things are just Theory. What the writers call “Avoidant”…John Ray calls being from Mars.

    Also I’m finding it hard to understand what was wrong with this man? He saw you 4 times a week and was taking you on a trip….and you seemed attracted and into him?
    Bad Advice and clingy obsessiveness as ruined yet another relationship on this blog.
    It hurts reading these stories…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:32am

  137. 137: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Ive just read back a bit more

    wow, you put up with a lot there!

    I hope you can move on quickly and cherish your inner child and then a good nature loving tolerant , supportive man who has his own stuff together can come into your life
    No drink, no drugs sounds a great way to be, though i dont envy you the coeliac

    Hope you are soundly asleep xx

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:53am

  138. 138: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I want to throw the damn book away!!!

    I was just explaining how excited I was about it.. and he took and ran with it… as a reason to break up… that’s ok… he obviously was considering it anyways the whole week he was gone and the book was making it easier for him…

    He said he was resisting for along while in the relationship… that’s true… and that I deserve someone that can give me more than that.. that’s true!

    but yeah the other things were hard with the guns everywhere, being afraid of thieves in his home all the time… have to have a strict routine, blaming me for his decisions ( ie staying up at my house late) not liking to do anything outdoors.. not being interested in me and my interests… and always having to have things his way…

    Celiac is fine… I don’t mind it at ALL I love that I eat very healthy… but I guess to some men that food is more important than a relationship!

    So book aside… there were other issues…

    Yes, he saw me 4 times a week… ??

    What was wrong with this man — you mean to me? I was into him… yes, and he said he wasn’t that into me… ??

    He said he was too wounded from his last relationship and he can’t get over losing the relationship he had with her daughter that he considered himself to be her dad…

    Where was the clingy obsessiveness? from me? Please tell me what you see?


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:18am

  139. 139: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Ruth! <3

    I tend to do that in relationships put up with too much! I've been told that I'm too patient and too tolerant…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:19am

  140. 140: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    and not being able to pass gas

    deal breaker for me

    Seriously, that sounds like you had to compromise SO much of yourself

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:27am

  141. 141: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – I checked the last thread and he seemed pretty into you…he looked into ur eyes for 5 mins…remember. You sounded kinda happy…strange how quickly your emotions changed. He just came back from visiting his Dad-who-has-cancer….was it really, really the time to start up on Attached? Seriously I just wanna find this guy and give him a big hug.
    I would encourage you for your own good to look at the ways maybe you were intolerant and impatient…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:35am

  142. 142: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Heart: I do find it a little frustrating when people read those sorts of things and pigeon hole themselves into a category and that’s that. What pleased me about the book is that where I started off as SUPER anxious (years ago) I now recognize that I’m becoming more and more secure thanks to all the inner work I’m doing.

    But it is not this blog’s fault that people on here make the decisions they do. Its on each and every individual. I read the exact same things on here that everyone else does and then I go about my day and make decisions based on many different factors.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:42am

  143. 143: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Heart I will look into this yes!

    this has been going on for months… not just now after his visit… and yes, I regret that I didn’t mention it to him about having the emotional impact of his dad on him… but really he has a degree in psy… he knows himself enough to know that for 4mos of the 6mos he didn’t want to spend the night with me… and as @Wildgeranium said that is a deal breaker for her and for me too… if after 4mos you don’t want to spend the night with someone…. I need to move on…

    he did look into my eyes for 5mins.. yes and last night when I couldn’t sleep, I recalled the feeling that he wasn’t that into me and I was just smiling and wishing he was… and to be honest… when it was happening.. ( looking into my eyes) I wasn’t feeling it either… I just pretended for it to… I knew something had changed between us…

    The eye contact wasn’t the way It had been in the past…

    I certainly can look at how i was not patient, but to be honest, I was overly patient with him in a lot of ways… he was very impatient with me… scolding me and getting really hot with me sometimes for not answering him… he didn’t allow me to have any wiggle room and when I apologized for something he would just keep using it against me… like hitting me over the head with it…

    it was a very double standard kind of relationship… and yes, he was into me… but the pretty, and good body part of me.. not the real me!

    I LOVE him and I told him that… but, love isn’t enough like Dominique said.. and I’ve always said… there has to be more glue than that… and we didn’t have common interests … he stays home most all the time, he hates exercise, and has to have routine… I’m an outgoing, fun, adventurous person that love exercise…

    Like Rori says… he just there for me to get the lessons I needed …. and he clearly has healing to do….


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:51am

  144. 144: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – Coming on the blog and constantly asking for input and advice IS obsessive. I’m curious to know what Rori has to say about this sort of behavor from her followers. It seems to go Entirely against her whole concept of taking your focus off a man. How can you take your focus off a man when blogging about him every hour and taking bad advice.

    Taking about Attached the book to your Man is just plain Weird. I haven’t read the book but I’ve the reviews and these So-called Avoidant types get a beating. Sounds kind of Mean and Clingy to bring it up….it’s like right off the bat you want to Talk about the relationship/talk about what he’s doing wrong.

    New Tool: Pretend Your The Bad One (while loving yourself)
    see where it takes you …

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:54am

  145. 145: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Zia

    I agree! I think people can read a book and put too much into it….

    I started to do that, and then caught myself, it’s just one person’s view..

    and yes, I’m finding it helpful b/c I too realized how I’m secure now and was a very anxious person years ago and how far I’ve come…

    on a side note:
    I certainly wasn’t perfect in the relationship, but I was putting up with far too much! Even aside from his father having cancer.. he was a very controlling man…and that bothered me a lot! I was always on the verge of breaking up b/c of it… I didn’t want to get into another relationship with a controlling man…my therapist told me “why haven’t you broken up”.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:57am

  146. 146: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – I’ve been following your story and I do feel glad that it’s ended. Maybe it was a purposeful relationship and that purpose has been served and it’s now complete :)

    Heart – the point of this blog is to allow us to get our feelings OUT. Even Rori admits it’s not for advice giving. The way I see it, is to get the feelings and confusion out here, so that hopefully we can go back to our men a from a more secure place. It’s all a journey. Everyone here is learning and no one is wrong with what they do or how they feel. Not me, not you.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:00am

  147. 147: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Heart: And how Lisa feels is not wrong, and so there’s no need to challenge it. Question it so you can make sense of it yourself sure but not challenge it and demand explanations or reasons?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:03am

  148. 148: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Heart

    Ok point taken… no I don’t think I’m going to be the bad one… sorry that isn’t going to help… and I think I’ve thought that most of my life and worked hard to over come it… I really don’t need that anymore…

    and I can certainly stop posting… no problem… if Rori or you thinks it’s too much…

    I would have to say, that, i’m not the only one that posts often, and I also would say I haven’t always.. I was processing stuff… but ok!

    I think my heart is hurting and I don’t want to have more…. like this…

    by the way he ask me about the book, I didn’t bring it up… and when I did, it wasn’t about US.. it was about the jest of the book… and he ask me about us… I didn’t initiate it…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:03am

  149. 149: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel quite defensive of Lisa at the moment! Sending lots of love to you Lisa xo

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:04am

  150. 150: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    How do I get off the feed so I can not get the posts…. ??? Can someone get me off please?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:05am

  151. 151: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Thats a very helpful way to look at it Zia

    A purposeful relationship


    I like that very much

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:06am

  152. 152: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Zia…

    I’m feeling shaky right now…

    but I do need to get off the feed b/c I have a broken heart now…and I need to love on it…

    much love Zia


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:06am

  153. 153: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Zia – I’m not demanding explanations or reasons. At what point did I say Lisa was wrong to feel the way she feels?
    I would encourage you to look at the ways You are making Me wrong…and essentially asking me to explain myself. Don’y you find that funny. #mirrors.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:09am

  154. 154: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, I am unsubscribed but I cant recall how i did it, sorry


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:09am

  155. 155: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    and lisa, if it helps you to vent dont stop posting

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:13am

  156. 156: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Heart I feel resonant with what you are saying to Lisa about the relationship.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:16am

  157. 157: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Heart: 141 had a pretty strong judgemental vibe about it. But that’s just my perspective.
    Ruth: Not sure if it was this post or the previous one, but I listened to a great call by a woman who said essentially there are three types of relationships: lifelong, life giving, and purposeful. With the last one, once the purpose has been served, the relationship ends (lesson learned). I really love this concept as it’s helped me feel a little stronger about my relationships that HAVE ended.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:16am

  158. 158: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa look at the bottom to see if the Notify me of followup comments via email is checked. If it is, uncheck it.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:17am

  159. 159: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    So does saying that talking to her man about the book is “weird”. So does saying its mean and clingy.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:18am

  160. 160: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – I’m sorry. That comment about the posting was merely a reflection on the blog itself. I didn’t write it to mean that you shouldn’t post…I learn a lot from you and the people that post …I wrote it because you asked me to explaim. Truthfully, I feel freaked out and a little grossed out ny your upsetness….it seems so childish to interpret and overact to what I wrote in that way….If you were really as secure as you claim you would be agreeing with me instead of sulking and making threats.

    If you want to keep demonizing the men in your life and play victim go ahead…Since my comments have upset everyone ad some kinda crazed drama is starting to unfold, I’ll consider retreating for the night.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:19am

  161. 161: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Zia, it is a great way to look at past stuff, in my view
    Stops you beating yoursdelf up and stops you thinking you have wasted so much tiem on the “wrong” relationship

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:19am

  162. 162: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Ruth – it was Lisa Nichols on the Attract Soulmate summit

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:20am

  163. 163: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    “It seems so childish to interpret and overact…. if you were really as secure as you claim you would….” <– judgement.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:20am

  164. 164: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Zia and FW

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:21am

  165. 165: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    It feels good to pick up on these things and recognize that they’re things that I used to say in relationships when I was attacking a man for hurting me.

    I had such a breakthrough when I realised I was doing this yet again with my ex… he was saying what he was saying and I was interpreting it my way through my filters and getting angry about it. When I stopped and thought about my feelings and where they led to I realised that it was simply from my interpretation of what he said. When I removed it, the anger was gone and I was able to let it go. That recognition felt so liberating.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:22am

  166. 166: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    162 Thank you FW!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:23am

  167. 167: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Arielle is on Modern Siren, isnt she

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:24am

  168. 168: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – the way I see it you need a “new normal”. Where energy goes energy flows. It seems the book was unconsciously used to look for the flaws rather than focussing on the good things he does. It seems this last episode is a bit of a “self-fulfilling prophecy”. The book convinced you that he is avoidant, you believed it and now you are right.

    The one thing I can tell you is that this is not over. I have learned that it has been proven that the parts of our brain that lights up when we are in love remains lit up long after a break up. From what you have written here, if this man is angry now, when he moves through his anger he is likely to contact you again.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:29am

  169. 169: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Zia/Heart/Lisa – if we use every relationship interaction as a learning moment where our intention is one of curiosity and learning about the other human being many of our interactions would be so different.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:32am

  170. 170: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Funny enough, I read the book and the way I took it is that these styles are developed based on our childhood socialization. I also understood that these styles can change. Especially as secures or any other style learn to respond to the needs of their partner.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:34am

  171. 171: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Erika I read these words and thought of you:-


    Many of us grew up believing that achieving success requires relentless hard work, grim determination and intense ambition.

    As a result, we’ve struggled for years and even reached some of our goals but often ended up feeling exhausted, our lives out of balance.

    The spiritual truth is, there’s an enlightened approach to success. A route that’s not rife with chaos and disorder.

    When you discover this spiritual laws of success, you’ll realize such desperate striving isn’t necessary or even desirable.

    The 10 spiritual laws are powerful principles you can use to fulfil your deepest desires with effortless joy.

    Expect Abundance,
    Aiden Powers”

    They remind me of the grace and ease that Lisa Nichols spoke about.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:37am

  172. 172: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Bob Grant

    “After years of practice, I found the secrets to getting a man to open up even when he doesn’t want to. They worked back then and they still work today. One key factor is being able to make adjustments in your interaction style.

    Each of us has a certain style of relating. Some styles are more outgoing while others are more naturally reserved. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply just ways of relating. Your ability to adjust your style of relating to the specific people with whom you are speaking determines your success rate in getting them to open up. This is especially true for getting a man to feel close to you. For example, if I’m talking with someone shy, I need to be careful not to overwhelm him or her. On the other hand, people who are more outgoing will want me to engage them more as we speak.

    When you monitor a man’s style and attempt to follow his lead, he will naturally relax around you. This is a change that you can make that will cause a man to feel as though you understand him. When a man feels you understand him, this becomes a major emotional trigger which makes him want to spend more time with you.

    Many women have told me this, “But that’s not who I am. I want to be myself. Why should I pretend to be something I’m not? That sounds like I playing games.” While there is some truth in what they’re saying, the point they are missing is as follows.

    If you want to be able to disarm a man and increase the likelihood that he’ll bond with you emotionally, then you have to make him feel safe. I don’t know if that’s fair, I just know it works. If you’re interested in fair, then you’re right. Just be yourself. Don’t adjust and wait for him to adjust to you – and wait….and wait.”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:41am

  173. 173: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Linguistics; verbal self-defense; English Verbal Attack Patterns

    VAPs aren’t just hostile utterances, smart cracks, insults, et cetera. They’re very specific, rigorously defined, productive patterns — “templates” into which American English speakers drop items from an infinite set of possibilities. All examples of VAPs are hostile utterances, but only a small number of hostile utterances are examples of VAPs.

    One basic VAP:
    “If you REALLY [X], YOU would/wouldn’t [Y]!”

    “If you REALLY loved me, YOU wouldn’t waste MONEY the way you do!”
    [Or — a variation, as mentioned — “If you really LOVED me, YOU wouldn’t waste MONEY the way you do!”]

    The bait in this example is “You waste money.” The sheltered attack is “You don’t really love me.” [That is, “if you really loved me” presupposes “you don’t really love me.”]

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:43am

  174. 174: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    “All English VAPs have two parts — at least one insult sheltered in a presupposition, and at least one open insult that constitutes the bait.

    (Sometimes the two parts are clearly separated as in the example, but not always.) In all English VAPs, hostility is signalled by extra emphasis on words and parts of words. For all English VAPs, the speaker isn’t interested in the utterance that would be the typical response, but is trying to start a fight.”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:44am

  175. 175: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    I apply this kind of thinking to interactions with patients

    if you dont communicate with them in their preferred style you end up being a whole lot less effective


    Applied to relationships


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:45am

  176. 176: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling extremely resistant to that concept in relationship-hm, I wonder why

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:51am

  177. 177: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wow. Beloved. It is very innocuous. No wonder Rori talks about choose your words. Susie & Otto Collins – magic relationship words. Other coaches – set your intentions.

    With these we change choose to change our patterns of communication.

    We can also choose to think it is game playing.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:53am

  178. 178: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Ruth the one thing that jumped to mind when I read it was *RESPECT*. I don’t know why, maybe because it was because in the past I just only cared about getting out what I wanted to say. I didn’t care how it affected the other person. Now that I am respecting myself more and removing myself from some interactions I feel showing respect in whatever way I can is so crucial for me.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:57am

  179. 179: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Also for me it is practically impossible for me to respect someone who I don’t respected by.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:01am

  180. 180: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Oh my.
    I feel so much better now that I have less bs tolerance.
    I never ever ever thought I’d agree with Dr. Phil on anything…but I stopped giving people the benefit of the doubt and it is working for me.
    I feel more and more trust for my instincts.
    The less I BS myself, the less tolerance for BS I have in others, and I’m okay with that.
    I’m learning a lot about mindeffery here…
    don’t pi$$ on my leg and tell me it’s raining!

    The shop mgr just came in and tried to convince me that he had spoken with me about something last week (never happened) and some info I was missing and needed had actually been in the system the whole time (uh, no, here’s my documentation, printouts, dates, times..)
    Honest to goodness, I’m positive he JUST put the information in last night or this morning, and was trying to convince me it had been there the whole time.

    Not this chica, I’m on to this game!
    I’m not an easy target for the manipulators anymore.
    I feel so strong!

    OLD person texts at booty call hours asking to trade pics, then tries to convince me what he was really doing was trying to find a good time to call… “When is a good time to call?” is trying to find a good time to call.
    “Can I get more pics? Pics? More pics? When you gonna send me some pics?” is NOT trying to find a good time to call. I can tell the difference.
    Disengage, abort mission :)

    I feel better and better and better about not leaning forward with C. It’s helped me see other things so clearly. He and D have a guilty conscience about *something* and I feel content to let them simmer in their own feelings.

    I feel good good good this morning. And I haven’t even taken any Happy Camper pills :)
    I feel more and more sure of myself, more and more certain, more and more confident in my ability to be resilient and bounce back after feeling triggered.

    Surprisingly, the first few OLD responders were actually interesting and worth responding to, hooray!
    I’m feeling more and more clear.
    Yum yum yum yay yum!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:04am

  181. 181: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    It kind of feels like I’m being talked around…

    What is it you feel resonate with..? Can you address me directly?

    on a side note:

    I know Dominique has already said prior to that he has wounds to work on and did I want to wait…and then be a maybe..

    Here is the one knows but me and my family and friends around me the whole story. He is a good man.. but he also always was trying to control me.. and dominate me… even in bed…

    I could post all of my concerns.. but the bottom line is Elsie was right! He couldn’t even put his snack down to have a talk with me.. this isn’t me he is like this with everyone… he just doesn’t want to be inconvenienced. He has told me time and time again with friends and clients… “It’s going to be on my terms”. That is how he treated me…

    I deserve better! Like he said I deserve someone that really feels deeply for me… and wants to spend the night with me.. he is right!!!

    So, hindsight I should have left long time ago when I noticed the control issues…

    Sat night before he left when we had sex he put his hand around my throat… YEP! I said what are you doing… he took it off..

    later I ask what was that about, he said I just got carried away.. OK carried away by what.. being in control…

    You see you don’t know the whole story.. I think that judging me by what little I’ve said on the posts is unfair…

    I’ve spoken to the best of my knowledge with respect and love and positiveness…on this blog.

    I really love your blunt honesty, but I also don’t agree with it…and it feels unfair…

    I’m not the only one that posts often.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:05am

  182. 182: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    FW – 177 – “Beloved. It is very innocuous”
    Isn’t it though?!
    It’s one of the reasons we feel bamboozled without really knowing why.
    I love love studying language and patterns of language, I feel so fascinated by it.
    T used to call me out on this all of the time…and boy was I really good at mindeffing right back..”Oh, you just read that in some book and now you believe it and are making it mean something about me without giving me the benefit of the doubt.”
    I was totally attacking. I couldn’t STAND to be the abuser, I would feel so incensed if someone else took the victim position. That was MY position, how dare he!!

    It feels so good to be out of that mess.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:10am

  183. 183: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Oh lord and it feels sooooo good to be able to laugh about it…
    now I’m crying…
    F*cking YES for me.
    :) :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:13am

  184. 184: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    It especially feels good to be able to laugh about it with T.
    We get some big fat belly laughs and guffaws at some of the crap we used to go at each other about and what we were believing at the time.
    I feel so open and expanded and so so so good right now,
    I feel so grateful
    Thank G0d, thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d,thank G0d that’s over keeps going through my mind and it feels soooo good to feel that right now.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:16am

  185. 185: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I haven’t been a victim I’ve admitted when I was wrong and I said I would look at what you said… and if I didn’t, I had it typed and maybe it got erased…

    However, I can be a victim for a short time and then look at it and release it.. i don’t have to be strong all the time secure or not.. even secure people have down times…

    I do look at my part in all of this… constantly!

    and if you feel that I’m being petty, that is certainly your right to feel that way… I think when someone’s heart is hurting that sometimes they are less secure!!!! and feeling vulnerable.. and I wouldn’t say things like that to someone that is hurting…

    but that is me… and I’m not the only one that took your post that way.. it seemed harsh and
    and here is the thing….

    typed out communication is lacking body language which we all know body language is 85% of communication.. no one can be sure how or what someone’s tone or intent is by typing a message… so I think maybe your not considering that! when you say I took it the wrong way… that plus I was hurting….

    So, loving me and giving me a break! here… I can say that there was NO way I could know by what you typed that it meant it the way you intended to conveyed it…

    and OK so I’m the bad guy! that’s fine, I can hang with that.. I’m still glad it is over! I don’t want another controlling man in my life that doesn’t consider my feelings and has to dominate me….

    and I was there for him! big time! and I wasn’t perfect! SO what!.. if I have to mold myself into perfect to be with a man than I don’t want to be in a relationship… he made big mistakes too!

    I apologized for my share! nothing else I could have done… I learned what I needed to learn and now I’m moving on…

    I’m sorry that my emotional state came out in my post… and for my share in this…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:21am

  186. 186: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Femininewoman

    You know i love your posts and clarity… I really do!

    thanks for directing that to me!

    and still as you see it I was looking for something to be wrong.. OMG I can find that… and what I can say is that it was already wrong! from the second month on… he was being avoidant then, I didn’t fulfill this was already there.. he told me last night… everything we’ve been struggling with for 4mos now is explained in this book…he was right!

    Pardon my spelling ….

    I know that it might appear that way,,, b/c I sugar coated some of what he did and I focused on the good more than maybe I should have…now that I’m looking at it… he loved me like Elsie said.. but he didn’t love me enough to not feel inconvenienced by things like spending the night with me.. he told me last night he has to force himself to spend the night with me…

    the man was controlling! big time! and for me that is a red flag! that in itself is a toxic thing for me… maybe someone else it might not be.. but the first time we had sex he tossed me around… trying to be in control!

    He stopped after that… but when he put his hand around my throat last week… I felt awful! He was trying to control me… and it was scary! He realized what he had done…

    he might come back.. I don’t’s my time to circle date and purge all of this good info I get feed back from and do the work on it… I’m obcessive.. and find it… I’m needy and find it and turn it around.. see behind the scenes of this blog… I do look at all this… I do! so when someone says I’m a victim… I don’t feel that is true for me… even my therapist tells me I’m not a victim personality… so that is projection from whomever is saying it…

    Much love!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:34am

  187. 187: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – I feel ultimate respect that you have shared your process so vulnerably with us and that the more we all share the more we receive our own revelations – constant expansion and growth

    Also, what we see on the blog is the present time and so its not often until after that we are able to admit to ourselves and hence the blog things we have been squashing or avoiding or not choosing to give energy to

    I feel you have been brave and open and authentic and whether this relationship with him is done or not you are constantly growing and learning more about yourself and your place in relationships

    Love hard on yourself x you are great :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:38am

  188. 188: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa this “I took the quiz and my attachment style changes depending on what partner/date I’m thinking about. These things are just Theory. What the writers call “Avoidant”…John Ray calls being from Mars.

    Also I’m finding it hard to understand what was wrong with this man? He saw you 4 times a week and was taking you on a trip….and you seemed attracted and into him?”

    is what I feel resonant with. I consider myself anxious based on the book. However depending on the other person in the relationship it seemed my style switched. Sometimes it felt I was straddling the fence between two. So I kinda felt my style was not “black and white”. If we should keep throwing the baby out with the bath water just because he has an avoidant style….then what.

    No pun intended, but I know of a couple with a little 2 year old boy. If you stand aside and watch him you would label him as avoidant.

    I am not saying to change your mind about the man it is just that my thinking is your application of the book to the relationship kinda felt like throwing the book at him.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:48am

  189. 189: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    He put his hand around your throat???!!!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:51am

  190. 190: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, they can…I agree! but he didn’t want to hear it… and just to be clear when I took the test he didn’t test as an avoidant… but I told him that he knows himself and what he feels and if he says he is avoidant,,, so that is what he is! I wasn’t going to try and convience him that I was right and he was wrong. That’s disrespectful!

    and I told him it just takes making adjustments..

    He said he didn’t want to respond to my needs… he said that last night! He said, I can’t let you in b/c of the pain I still have in me from losing a child… I know that pain… I told him I understood that pain… and he is right when you lose a child …it is hard hard to let anyone in… he knows what he needs and it isn’t me!

    I agree! and I get off track at times.. ( I’m human and not perfect) and lose the curiosity and then judge,,,,but then I get to do the work on it… and un-do it… it’s a process and it’s for a reason…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:53am

  191. 191: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – what you are now writing about this man leaves me feeling like he has split personality. I know everyone has issues. We have to decide what issues we can handle.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:56am

  192. 192: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I needed that….


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:58am

  193. 193: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @FW it might have on this blog but that doesn’t mean I did it to him… I looked at what you said… and I centered myself and dropped it before I saw him on Sunday…

    that is what I mean about not knowing the whole story…and the control issues.. etc… there is more to it then one might see on this blog…

    plus, even my friends Knew I needed to let him go… my daughter ( older one) did also, she saw it in him months ago…

    but if someone wants to deem me the bad guy and the one throwing the book at him…nothing I can do to change it…

    I was into him… that doesn’t mean that it was right for me… I learned the lesson yesterday, I needed to learn… I wasn’t shocked when it ended… that’s what happens when you learn what you need to learn…

    and again! I wasn’t perfect! (who is- its a process) and it feels like its ok for him to do things to me and not ok for me to make a mistake with him… that concerns me…

    @Beloved…. I’m wanting that for me now.. not putting up with BS!!!! I loved that!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:05am

  194. 194: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, I hope you’re not feeling too upset today. I haven’t read all the comments, but the ones I have felt hard to read.

    I’ve followed your story since when I first found the blog. Hopefully it’s OK if I share some thoughts with you?

    Regarding ‘attached’. It’s really an oversimplification of adult attachment theory. There is value in understanding these concepts. Looking for the explanation of a particular relationships success/failure through this book is not helpful.

    I mentioned before, but I think it got lost in the huge thread, I honestly don’t see you as secure. I think you are anxious with secure attributes that you’ve developed because you’ve worked on your stuff.

    I observed you at your best when you were working through your stuff and your issues.

    There was way to much focus on “M”. Now, I realize that the perspective here on the blog is skewed because we don’t get the whole picture. It just felt controlling. It felt suffocating- all that brain power focused on every little thing with him.

    I used to have a major problem with therapizing men in my relationships. I grew up learning that love is telling someone what’s wrongvwith them and how to fix it. Forwarding articles, or books, etc, to a man is covert therapizing. Even if he asks for it. I wouldn’t bring it up so that he knew to ask for it, unless we were very stably committed. I read all the relationship material that I do for myself. Not for a particular relationship. It’s for my personal growth. Now, if CW asks me why I seem different, I will be honest– he asked specifically and I told him about Alison Armstrong and he even read ‘Keys to the Kingdom’. But there are many relationship books that I would not share with him- they are my personal business– and he would take it the wrong way if he knew what they were and read them. It’s not about him. It’s about me and my stuff.

    It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback ( or Tuesday morning) but I think things could have gone differently with “M” if you could just relax and ” just be”. That is the ultimate state and vibe that I am trying for every day. Just being. Men love that. And they love a woman who appreciates what they do. They love a woman they can make happy.

    It sounded like M loves you. But maybe he just has too many things to deal with right now and didnt see how he could manage it all and work hard to make you happy? Maybe he just needs some space without any pressure, to sort things out?


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:07am

  195. 195: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    That is my point… I’m being judged without the whole story..

    I have no idea why he put his hands on my throat… he is into control…that is what I’ve been saying all along… he didn’t ever ask me what I wanted… he just dictated to me…

    he has control issues b/c he has felt so out of control at times in his life…

    but I don’t and didn’t psy analyze him…

    putting his hands on my throat during sex was not OK! and most especially since he shrugged it off… and gave me no explaination…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:08am

  196. 196: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Grabbing my throat would definitely be a deal breaker for me.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:16am

  197. 197: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Ok I can find that… and like i said when things are stressful or too much yes, the anxious come out…

    and I don’t thearpize him… but if things are dysfunctional… yes, I start looking for answers.. b/c I don’t want to be in another controlling relationship…that’s my pattern and I’m working on breaking it…

    and also when someone is working on deep issues, of course they will come off as insecure b/c they are digging deep into crappy stuff!

    and it’s ok if I’m a anxious… I’m ok with that… and I think the book gave me what I needed and now I can put it down.. I know what I needed to know from it… and it wasn’t to make “M” a bad person or use it against him.. it was for me to have some clarity about something that was already bothering me for months and I needed some backup…

    and yes, I think that b/c of the truama he is dealing with it could be bringing out the avoidant in him….

    I told him I think he is secure…he didn’t think so….

    Ok…. love your honesty! thanks for your bluntness… really I do … appreciate it…

    I’m feeling very calm and centered and back to me again…

    I’m sorry my venting caused such a big issue… but I’ve learned so much from this…

    I’m a vicitim and I’m obcessive and I’m anxious all are good ones for me to do the work…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:17am

  198. 198: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    There is no issue. I also don’t see you as a victim.

    You are processing and helping all of us who are reading your process. Like everything else there is always the possibility of misreading or misunderstanding.

    Give yourself some space. Right now you are likely to be sensitive to everything. And rightly so.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:22am

  199. 199: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “he has control issues b/c he has felt so out of control at times in his life…

    but I don’t and didn’t psy analyze him…”

    Can you see this? This is psych analysis & then saying you don’t do that.

    For me, looking for evidence of something wrong with a man, defining his issues, explaining why he does things or doesnt do things, finding all the things wrong with a relationship are all ways that I can ease the anxiety of dealing with my own stuff. Right?

    When I develop a list a ways a man is screwed up and can’t give me what I want, and will never be able to, it becomes a self-fulfilling situation. And it means I don’t have to go deeper on my own stuff- how I’m creating my own reality and not accepting what “is”.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:34am

  200. 200: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “I’m feeling very calm and centered and back to me again…”

    I’m wondering if you feel calm again because you have de-activated (or “M” has) from the anxiety causing cycle?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:41am

  201. 201: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel confused as to why Lisa is defensive about what she posted. I feel confused. We post and process. We are open and feeling. We comment with love on each others journey. We shine a light where there is darkness so we may have another place to view our inner landscapes. With love and no judging. With love………………………. always with love. Thank you

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:44am

  202. 202: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    :-) Seahorse
    This is true. Even when it’s blunt or tough love it’s still with love because we are all here for the same reason. Even if our particular circumstances are different, we all desire the same thing ultimately.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:52am

  203. 203: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I was thinking back to myself trying to be a smart alec………………… a meany pants:( The one thing I did perfect and use still is the STARE. It is the no words, eyebrow slightly raised and no emotion showing stare. Quiet stare. In front of everybody, just be quiet and stare at the person who said a painful thing…………………….

    Only now, I also use the feeling/speaking tool with it:) When triggered, I stop and breathe first! Most important I have found to breathe first and it has to be down low…….. Then I feel the yucky and know that it is okay and then speak the truth. Sometimes the person has no idea that it hurts to hear what they just said………… in some cases I don’t need to speak because the intent wasn’t to hurt me, it is their way of being and speaking. There are boundaries for me though, and that’s when I speak………………No ‘you’s’ only ‘I’s’……………………………… I feel better inside loving me and others. I feel really peaceful letting go and being me again after this long while. it feels like I found my best friend after being separated for a long time. I am thinking it feels like vulnerability………… I like it:)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:56am

  204. 204: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium! :) Oh my goodness……… When I read your name, I can remember the smell of my favorite geranium! Love is always the answer…….. that feels really good to write.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:04am

  205. 205: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – it’s really late her

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:04am

  206. 206: Shar Lean Way BackNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, Based on all the things he said to you whilst breaking up. I feel good about you learning from him and moving on.
    This really said it for me
    “I never felt good enough for him… and I tolerated it… he would say things to me about people with low income.. etc… I told him that tonight…that I never felt I was in the right social class for him… and I noticed he never said anything about it…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:04am

  207. 207: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I am reminded of the comedy Roast that they do. How it’s acceptable to come up with the most horrendous thing to say about somebody. In a way it feels sad……………………. Irony? I don’t know. It feels funny at times but mostly I feel sad when watching them. I change the channel…………………… change the channel in real life??? hahahahahahaha!!!! That feels better

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:11am

  208. 208: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for your kind words, Heart :)

    I can assure you, most of what I know has been acquired by tremendous amounts of pain, and then healing. And I am in such a lovely, contented place in my life now, so happy with myself, so I think any value in what I share comes from that.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:13am

  209. 209: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Love and hugs to you and your hurting heart.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:13am

  210. 210: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa -it’s really late here and I’m sleepy so I might not make sense. I read your happy-melting-M-is -amazing posts in the last thread and then I read about the break up and I felt concerned. I wondered how could things go wrong in a day? – and my heart went out to you. Also I, myself, have read some material recently and it has changed my perspective somewhat. I remembered when I made mistakes while trying to understand men and Was way off point and I felt like M was feeling unloved or unappreciate or just not good enough for you and I thought if I could point you in that direction you and he could reunite and you could be happy Lisa again. Maybe I’m projecting….maybe I’m trying to get old-Heart to correct her old “mistakes”…I don’t know. I felt frustrated, ganged up against and misunderstood by the end of the interaction and I believe I could have handled by last post to you better.
    Good Luck with your healing.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  211. 211: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    ((((( Heart)))))))))) Sweet Heart big hugs!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  212. 212: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    When you are not hurting so much, I would love it if you looked again at what Heart, and Feminine Woman, and Dominique from the previous thread, and even Erika and Melanie are saying.

    I also felt that way, but didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want to hurt you.

    I am not sure if my perspective is helpful to you, but I have found people can heal and change tremendously right before your very eyes as you focus on the positive in them and what they are doing to show you they love you. Often it is VAST and when you really do this exercise, your eyes get opened to it. I literally wept when I saw how D (whom someone, if they had a mind to, would classify as very avoidant) was expressing his love for me in myriad and profound ways that I was missing utterly because I was focusing on his faults and shortcomings.

    I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.

    But for me this is the thing. I love him. I don’t want to be without him. If you do not feel that way about M, I think you might have ultimately made the right choice in ending it. I think we might have just been concerned for you that you might have been pushing him away, perhaps unconsciously.

    Love and hugs to you! you are lovely

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  213. 213: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    A funny thing happened last night. I got an email from someone I reconnected with while I was on vacation in Seattle last year with my ex. He owns a restaurant there and we dropped in while we were in town for the weekend and had dinner. It was a bit awkward because there was some competition between them and my friend (whom I knew over 20 years ago) was very forthright about wanting to see me and get together in CA (where I live) or in Seattle! And this was right in front of my ex. So bold. Anyway, I kinda downplayed it at the time since the whole thing was uncomfortable, but since then my ex and I broke up, and this is the first time I’ve felt excited about someone else! So nice to feel like this again. It feels so good!!! :) :) :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:42am

  214. 214: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Oh my. I feel my heart melting

    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:45am

  215. 215: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    FWIW, I appreciate both Lisa’s posts and Heart’s posts. I can understand how what Heart is saying could trigger some defensiveness, and I still think it’s helpful what she’s saying. Not as the “absolute truth” – just as something to sit with … I also hear Lisa working through her feelings and that maybe SHE was “just not into” this man even though she tried to make it work … and I honor that too … maybe some of the stuff that was going on was a reflection that deep down she knew he’s not the right guy. I don’t know, I’m not here to tell anyone what the “truth” is for them … I do though really value having both of the perspectives and not feeling like we need to shut either one out … because I feel like letting all the voices speak freely is what’s going to get us to our absolute “truth” …

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:51am

  216. 216: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    With a little distance and clarity,
    I do believe that my friends who think C was afraid I might accuse him of sexual harassment were right.
    I’m remembering a story about the other woman who works here and a guy she had an affair with, he made one off comment about her toe nail polish and he got fired.

    I feel relieved, and a little mischievous.
    I don’t feel the need to set things right or reconnect, I actually feel al little amused on the surface and as I type this I am feeling deeper into my heart and filling up with compassion.

    I’m liking the distance, I feel much more relaxed.
    I’m okay with it. What I said had unintended consquences that I feel really really okay with actually. The atmosphere was a little too sexually charged at work for my comfort, in an inappropriate place and with a man who isn’t available.
    The universe really is conspiring FOR me!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:52am

  217. 217: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

    yep….I love CW just as he is–spots and all–or I don’t truly love him.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:54am

  218. 218: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I also want to honor the deep part of me that is very laser focused on one man. She feels like that perspective is not allowed, and I told her that it is allowed. We are going to embrace all of me, and we are not going to pretend anymore. She has pretty much shut down several areas of my life because she says we are not going on from here without him. She says she will not date one other man because it’s a waste of time. And she’s not going to do it. She feels very sad that she has been so “shut down” by so much relationship “advice” and “shoulds” and “conventional wisdom.” and not allowed to speak her truth. She’s not going to be shut down anymore. I honor her truth today. I honor all of me. If she can be this powerful at shutting down my life, she must have something important to say.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 9:57am

  219. 219: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgerainum… my post got lost I think..hope this isn’t a repeat…

    I can see what you are saying.. I wouldn’t have Of course! attracted him otherwise…right?

    However for me, I’m looking at myself, and my issues..but his were more serious.. for ME! that is my opinion and the one that matters.. putting his hand over my throat… was huge sign for me… too much control issues..

    Now one could argue with it, that’s ok.. it’s my opinion and the one I’m sticking with.. my psy analyzing a situation once it gets to the point where I start acting anxious and obsessive tells me, I need to really STOP and look at it… its not like I was doing it for 6mos…

    I wasn’t trying to analyze him, but the entire situation to see if it was healthy for me or not! That has worked good for me…

    on side note:
    So, here is the thing… SO WHAT if I made mistakes… he did too! and Big ones! I need to be able to not have to be perfect to be in a loving and healthy relationship! thousands of people are in relationships, and they aren’t perfect and they have issues and make mistakes.. I need to be able to do that…have an opportunity to see it and apologize for it and be loved anyways… just like I did him! when he made some big ones…

    I’m tired of having to make me more better for a man! When I’m really good now! and I have lots to offer anyone… lots! I’m a damn good partner…. and no I’m not perfect, and yes, I have flaws…

    Thanks for reminding me of that… I’m glad you said it……. it makes me step up…

    @FW about the hand around my throat….I’m concerned that it wasn’t an immediate deal breaker and why I didn’t leave and move more sooner… I did use my feeling messages, but I didn’t act…that concerns me… that I was going to let it slide… it wasn’t until this morning I remembered it happening… not a good sign…

    I’m off the posts now…. I need to focus on getting my life and my child’s life back on track.. heal and move forward…

    My ex even told me today, Lisa you weren’t happy with him, I could see that…

    @Elsie thanks a ton for your post last night.. it really helped me see clearly!!! <3

    Love and hugs

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:06am

  220. 220: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    “I literally now do not care whether he is avoidant, introverted, or a green alien covered in pink spots. Because I love him, and I love how he makes me feel. And I know with every fibre of my being that he loves me. And I know that whatever he cannot provide for me, I can provide for myself.”

    and that doesn’t mean I stay with him… I can still love him and do what is healthy for me!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:08am

  221. 221: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, it does feel like all the “reasoning” gets in the way of being directly in touch with your truth … not sure if that will resonate …

    What I’d be asking is “how did it feel to me?”

    I get very instant gut feelings about guys when I meet them that almost invariably turn out to be correct, and the mistakes I’ve made were in overriding those feelings.

    Like a couple of long-term relationships where I knew from day one I was not into the guy. It didn’t feel right, and that did NOT change over time.

    Putting all avoidant/secure etc. analysis aside, what was your gut feeling about this man? I’m hearing that you just weren’t feeling it and that you were trying to make something work when it was not meant to work … I dunno, that’s what I’m hearing. I don’t think it needs to be any more complicated than that. Our intuition is very powerful.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:10am

  222. 222: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    The very second that I met “Felt Unsafe” Guy in person, my intuition went “No F-ing way.” And then as things played out, it was obvious why my intuition was saying that loud and clear. It was an instantaneous understanding “no this guy is not my match, not even close.”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:13am

  223. 223: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:


    chiming in here because of something similar in my previous relationship. The hands over the throat thing, of course that is a deal breaker, and it indicates there is something seriously wrong with this man. Chances are there were signs like this (maybe not so blatant) earlier in the relationship that you ignored. I’m just saying this because this is what I did. my ex never did anything as violent as the throat thing, but he did other things to intimidate me and subtly threaten me. I chose to sweep these under the rug because there were other things I liked about him so much. But it was a huge lesson for me in the future to not ignore these red flags. They show up early on because they aren’t flukes, these are indicators of a man’s character.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:17am

  224. 224: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    3 Ways to Know If Our Perceptions of Each Other Are Accurate

    By Marissa Walter

    “If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people.” ~Virginia Woolf

    If you’ve ever listened to someone’s description or opinion of you and it sounded completely alien, you probably found yourself wondering where on earth they were coming from.

    We are told that on a universal, spiritual level, the way you perceive someone is more than just an opinion; it’s actually a reflection of you being projected onto that person.

    So if someone tells you that you’re beautiful, kind, or have a good heart, they can only do so because those qualities are present within them. Conversely, if you see someone as dishonest, unkind, or manipulative, that’s because you, yourself, are projecting those parts of you onto the other person.

    When I was going through the depths of healing from adultery and my marriage break-up, I recalled a lot of things my ex-husband told me about myself—some of which I accepted; a lot of which I did not.

    It was very important to me to use forgiveness, self-love, and a sense of perspective as my tools to move on. I worked hard on my own issues, and accepted responsibility for the things within me that had brought me that harsh experience.

    But I have always struggled with this concept that “you can only see in others what you have within you.”

    It’s not because I only want to believe the good things people say about me, or because I think I have no bad traits.

    It’s because when dealing with unacceptable or in some cases abusive behavior in life, it is very difficult to hear and accept that the negative conduct you have received from someone else is simply your own darkness being brought into the open, and nothing to do with the other person.

    This was how I had always interpreted such teachings, and doing so made me feel worse about myself instead of better.

    I now understand that it is possible to witness or observe a behavior objectively, for what it is, without necessarily being that yourself.

    This is true of both positive and negative interactions. For example, I can acknowledge and deeply admire those who can speak publicly with great confidence, but I don’t possess this ability.

    This is not a defeatist attitude or low self-esteem talking; it’s simply an observation. Likewise, I can see someone’s behavior toward me as negative or destructive, but know I’m not like that. I no longer feel the guilt of believing that in order to have observed it, I must be like that too.

    What I believe is that we all have is the potential for the behaviors we are being shown.

    I know that I have the potential for great public speaking; and I know I have the potential for manipulative or intolerant behaviour. But though can I recognize these traits in others, it’s not who I choose to be right now.

    This is not intended as way to avoid responsibility for your own behavior, or an opportunity to judge others while saying “but I’m not like that.” But it is important to know, especially when we are feeling emotionally vulnerable, that sometimes it isn’t about us; it’s about them.

    Here are three ways of working out whether what a person says about you is really a reflection of themselves. It’s also useful and healthy to use this exercise from the opposite perspective to see if you are ever projecting your own issues onto another:

    1. Is their opinion about me something I’ve felt about myself?

    We have a deep knowledge of our own psyche—our fears, our dreams, our abilities, and our strengths and faults.

    Does what the other person is saying ring true on any level? If they are saying great things but the words sound hollow to you, it won’t really be about you. But if your heart lifts when someone calls you generous, it’s because you know you are, and they have struck a lovely chord.

    2. Is their opinion about me something I’ve been shown by other people?

    Although trusting your own inner knowing is vital, we are interactive creatures with varied experiences of each other.

    Unless you have a real Jekyll and Hyde personality, other people’s perceptions of you will be largely similar. So, if one person is telling you that you are arrogant and stubborn, while everyone else sees you as kind, patient, and tolerant, then it’s most likely that this one person is bringing their own issues into what they are saying about you.

    3. Do they have another agenda?

    Does the person telling you about yourself want something from you emotionally or physically? Are they speaking to you, or about you, from a place of love, or fear?

    If they have an agenda, then what you are being told about yourself, whether good or bad, is likely to be manipulation on their part and no reflection on you.

    So why are we being told and shown things by others’ behavior if it’s not actually about us?

    I believe that the actual message, whether it’s, “you are selfish” or “you should be a professional dancer,” is not the end purpose of the exchange.

    It’s what we learn about ourselves from our response that really matters. Is the comment something we need to pursue or let go of? Does it require a reply or acknowledgement? What does it say about us if we accept what they say, or don’t?

    The things being presented to us through other people’s actions or words simply show us what we are capable of, not necessarily what we are.

    For me, encounters and interactions with others are ripe learning opportunities for growth. We learn to use discernment, tolerance, compassion, and gratitude. We are shown the potential to be strong inspiring and happy; we are also shown the potential to be fearful, negative and unloving.

    What we choose to be is up to us.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:18am

  225. 225: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, another thought, I’m not trying to say that you did anything wrong, and I know you feel sad about the relationship ending (I know I did about mine ending, and I still do at times). I think, though, there is always something to learn from a relationship and it sounds like maybe you and I had similar things to learn from ours. Take care of yourself and give yourself time to heal! Time really does heal all wounds.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:33am

  226. 226: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    You are wonderful just the way you are!

    The reason you are being held up to such a high standard is because you are on this path. I know it can feel frustrating at times because you think, I’m so wonderful, and I have so much to give! And you are, and you do! But once you start on the journey of self-awareness, there is no going back.

    Lucky, lucky you! Just think what’s in store for you!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:52am

  227. 227: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I just learned a man doesn’t commit just because he is in love.

    He needs to know that he can afford this woman on every level. Including knowing he is capable of meeting a woman’s needs on all levels.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:53am

  228. 228: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman & Wildgeranium,

    It’s really truly how I feel. I was never able to talk myself out of it, and neither was anyone else, though many tried. It was always there. I love this man, just as he is. And I love who I am with him.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:55am

  229. 229: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    224 Wildgeranium- Whoa! that was a shining ray of light for me:) I love that. Thank you

    I am reminded of the saying………… Will you use your power for good or evil? I walk on the sunny side up. Walk the walk and talk the talk……….. yeah, that feels good.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 11:43am

  230. 230: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I had a comment go into mod………… oops:)

    I thanked Wildgeranium for 224. Thank you!!!!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 11:45am

  231. 231: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I have no texting power..

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  232. 232: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I have no texting power..

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  233. 233: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    dooc afternoon,,, i hope you are feeling well today. wpndering how your day is going and if your smiling… u have a beautiful smile.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:12pm

  234. 234: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    Avoid the Word YOU – Even When You’re Speaking Your Truth
    Written by Rori Raye
    11 April 2011

    Here – the blogging is the practice.

    Basically – I’m asking you to observe the same rules on the blog as I ask you to observe with a man – so you can practice.

    And I know how hard it is.

    How easy it is to feel triggered and angry, and not know what to do with it – and want to practice expressing it.

    I WANT you to be BOLD!

    I want you to speak the truth.

    And yet – I want you to do it in a certain way that’s all about you – and zero about him or anyone else.

    Just because a man triggers you doesn’t mean it’s about him.

    If a man breaks into your house, hurts you and robs you – that’s harder.

    You don’t need to ask yourself why was I home at that time? You don’t need to analyze your behavior. A man came into your space, and even with the best defense you could muster (however that looked) – he did something that impacted you.

    In love – it can be like this. A man can cheat on you and give you a horrible disease.

    A man can gamble away all your money and leave you destitute.

    A man can have another wife and marry you anyway, and leave you officially unmarried and without insurance or legal protection.

    In this circumstance – he did this, and you are the accidental bystander.

    In this circumstance, rage and lots of YOU words seems totally justified, and it IS! Of course it’s righteous to be angry when someone hurts you – on purpose or not.

    And still – for purposes of getting you to where you want to go in love – I don’t want to focus on this righteous anger – I want to focus on the language and mindset around ANYTHING – no matter HOW horrible it was or is that will work best to HEAL the depths of pain, shame, guilt, fear, grief that the righteous anger is surrounding for you (and in a very positive way, too).

    I want to encourage you to connect with, channel and USE your anger – and yet, SPEAK in words of only yourself.

    Instead of using your anger to strike out at the perpetrator because of what he did – I want you to simply express that anger out because that propulsion of emotion is what you FEEL!

    In other words – you need no excuse to feel and express rage.

    It belongs to you, it’s part of YOUR healing emotions.

    Because nothing you do, say or think can change what has already happened…I want you to do what is best for you – NOW!!

    And what is best for you is to focus on you.

    The process is pretty methodical. You follow your own inner workings and process and share it as much as you can.

    And this is totally different from “complaining” – and totally different from wishing other people bad, using the word “you” and getting them involved in your process.

    With a criminal – it gets you nowhere. Better to focus on what WOULD get you somewhere.

    And with a regular man who’s simply done something wrong – something that made you feel bad or angry – talking about HIM will only get his defenses operating full tilt.

    His ego and his boundaries won’t allow you to run him down – even if you’re right.

    He’ll shut you out and walk away from you – which is what I’d advise you to do with a man who tries to do that with YOU – a man saying things to you that feel bad to you – that feel like he’s extending his world to impact yours in some negative way…that he wishes you ill or hates you.

    When you are alone or with a therapist – you can explore other things – but ALWAYS – talking about OTHERS is not the way to go.

    You are always just talking about yourself and REACTING to others.

    So as you write – privately in your journals, and here, on this monumental journal of all of us – see if you can share your deepest feelings without involving other people at all…(except to set context by saying lightly what happened to trigger you…).

    Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:19pm

  235. 235: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    If We Think About Something – Do We Attract It?
    Rori Raye
    Saturday, 20 November 2010

    What happens when we “label” a man? Meaning – labeling a man “toxic” or a “sociopath” or a “narcissist,” as we do sometimes here, and as I do in my Toxic Men program.

    The “Law of Attraction” concern is that if we start thinking about men in those confining ways – we’ll create more of that in the world, and sort of fulfill our own expectations around attracting men we label with those “qualities.”

    Well…though I want us to pay attention to what we’re “putting out into the world” in terms of our thoughts – I’m totally NOT concerned with what we put into the world with our feelings.

    Paying attention to our feelings and following the trail our emotions provide to lead us to how we “create” our thoughts and our experiences is the biggest asset we have!

    What I want us to watch for is what happens when we RESIST our feelings.

    It is always, to me – crucial to FEEL what we’re feeling, and then, if we choose to go in a different direction, one that feels better, that feels like more of a contribution to the world than another spear chucked into it, we shift OTHER things.

    We shift ACTIONS. We simply DO something different. Or we IMAGINE something different.

    This is very different than resisting – it’s sort of leaning into a curve, or – you know how they say to get out of a skid in your car? You don’t slam on the brake, and you don’t give up the wheel – you DRIVE through it.

    And as we shift something we CAN shift – something we may have written down, or know in advance that it feels good to us – our thoughts shift with it, and then our feelings shift (because, really, it’s not a big wrench-like thing to shift feelings – it’s all in the Soup – and we’re just touching a different feeling in that Soup.

    Yes – each feeling may have it’s own vibration – some vibrate faster or slower or higher or lower – but they’re all in there.

    And as for labeling – in my Toxic Men program, I really try to explain these labels, because it just helps sometimes to get clear on some things.

    Sometimes we have great difficulty feeling what feels good and what feels bad, and we need some kind of objective help.

    The only way we can bring something like that into our love life is to help us break patterns – in other words – the last 5 men in my life were like “that.”

    They had “those” qualities, and they scored “that” on my Toxic Men quiz, and so I know that “that’s” what I’m attracted to and what I attract.

    So I can notice “that” more quickly now.

    This is helpful.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with FEAR.

    I don’t believe in worrying that I’ll attract something I’m afraid of.

    That will make me more afraid, and make me want to resist feeling my fear.

    I’d rather look at it this way…

    I feel this feeling.

    Now what?

    Or, I’ve been through this experience, now what?

    What can I learn?

    How can I take this experience and this fear apart and shift it to something that feels good, and takes me in a direction that feels good, and releases my hold on that old thing I was focusing on?

    And most important – Do I want to keep feeling this feeling over and over and over again? If I DON’T – then, what thought or activity or choice or judgment is leading me to a place where I feel that feeling?

    Here’s how you work it – you use the feeling you have to retrace the thought that helped the feeling come about. If every time you eat yogurt, or a candy bar, or a diet soda you feel awful after – then that’s easy – the yogurt, candy, soda is not sitting well with you.

    Same with a thought. The thought “He’s going to hurt me” makes you feel bad, makes you remember hurt, and makes you see a new man through the lens of that feeling.

    Thinking – “Oh…I feel so attracted to him…he’s my one and only…” creates a feeling where you become AFRAID of LOSING him.

    The FEELINGS are your CLUES.

    And – just trying to turn those thoughts around doesn’t work, because you really won’t “buy” that immediate reverse.

    The only way to change your thoughts and beliefs is to follow your feelings, and then SWITCH your thoughts, actions, attention onto something ELSE – something that creates a better feeling.

    So…“He’s my one and only” can become “I’m so damned sexy!” or “Oh…that little dog is SO sweet!” or “I can’t wait to clean out that drawer” or “Wow, that guy in the corner is looking at me.” And you pet yourself, or you pet the dog, or you smile at the new man with a completely open heart…and then you can smile at the man you feel so attached to with an open heart, too…and just allow the new feelings to flow.

    It’s not magic. but, if you practice these techniques and tools all day long, and before you go to bed, and when you wake up in the morning – it’s pretty magical how quickly you feel better and stronger and more powerful around EVERYTHING in your life.

    Then, the thought and label “he’s toxic” can refer to your feeling BAD when you’re with him…and then you can pay more attention to everything you’re feeling and speak about it to him – even in those “label” terms.

    Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:22pm

  236. 236: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    some people like hand around the throat sex… hmmm i feel curious to try this

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:36pm

  237. 237: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i def want to try hand around the back of the neck facedown sex

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:37pm

  238. 238: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Just had a session with one of my clients. She’s in a group of women who are all very frustrated with the dominant “masculine” model of business and coaching. They have all spent a lot of time and money on these big name coaching programs without seeing results. I’m pretty convinced one of the reasons is that it just feels BAD for most women to be required to make sales calls, and even worse to make “high pressure” sales calls where you’re instructed to keep pressuring the prospect until they say “yes” on the spot. I’m feeling some inspiration to create a program to teach people how to run a more “feminine energy” business though it’s not clear enough yet for me to take action. I do sense there is a great need for this, and that even many men are not comfortable with the “high pressure” sales call approach that’s predominantly being taught.

    I remember interviewing one potential business coach and I didn’t hire her in part because she gave me no written information in advance and wanted me to decide on the spot without from my perspective adequate understanding of what I was getting myself into … that felt BAD. And as a coach I would not feel good about prospects making decisions that way. For the coaching to be successful, the choice needs to arise out of their truth not out of a high pressure sales call.

    I feel frustrated that this is the dominant model, because it feels bad and really pushes down our feminine qualities … and I can tell looking at many people who practice it that while they may be making a lot of money, they are not healthy or balanced … it shows up in their physical body … and I also sense there is an opportunity here.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:39pm

  239. 239: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    A lot of women like hand on the throat sex, and hair pulling, and other forms of dominance. I’m not here to judge what feels good or bad to any particular woman.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:42pm

  240. 240: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I am reminded of men who use analogies of precious jewels to teach their daughters how to behave with men. One told my daughter what he told his, that garbage can be easily found by side of the street where anyone can have access to it. On the contrary for the most part precious jewels and valuables are locked away where they for the most part can only be viewed. Then he told her when it comes to men you have to choose what you want to be. His mentality is that men should work to be able to get access to you and your body. You should not be so available for them to experiment with.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:48pm

  241. 241: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i like hair pulling!

    but you know what i don’t like the emotional agression stuff

    i like this hair pulling stuff on a physical level… helps my body relax into the tension

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:48pm

  242. 242: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel angry at teh garbage analogy



    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:50pm

  243. 243: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    FW, I can relate to that analogy though I have mixed feelings about “locked away” … actually your post made me think again about something I am sitting with … I don’t have the words right now … off to acupuncture :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:51pm

  244. 244: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Rachel Jayne Groover teaches Feminine model business stuff

    its a growing field now, i know several coaches saying they are using this new model

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:51pm

  245. 245: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I too have mixed feelings about several things in the analogy. Yet I understand where they are coming from. It was their way of teaching their girls that they are the prize. I was there when one was talking to my daughter and it was clear she got what he was saying.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:53pm

  246. 246: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel guilty

    im a hater beating myself u p lol

    i love my noticing

    im not dressed for my date that is coming now

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:53pm

  247. 247: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i am SO the prize

    holding myself as the Queen with Dman the other day led to us having wonderful connected sex when we did

    and i got my pussy ate tho he liek Getright didnt really feel comfortable with it but he did it cuz i was so good at really being congruent with my boundaries

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 1:55pm

  248. 248: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Hmm…. Lisa, I’m sorry that you are hurting… and I know it’s hard to read some of these posts… I do feel in agreement for the most part with FW, Heart, Indigo, and Wildgeranium …. and I also resonate with what Erika is saying about you maybe just not being into him (which easily could have caused an unconscious sabotage of the whole thing)… I remember being surprised seeing a couple places that you didn’t feel chemistry with him etc….. and it seems possible that that right there is the bottom line in this whole thing: you really weren’t feeling “it” for him – and that’s not anyone’s fault and doesn’t make either of you bad or wrong in any way.

    About the hands on the neck – Unless he was actually trying to fully choke you and prevent you from breathing, that’s actually a very common erotic move that many healthy men and women enjoy. It’s not really about control. I do understand that it could feel a little frightening if it was new to you…. and also not everyone likes the same things (there are very likely things you enjoy that other people would dislike)…. so your feelings are valid…. but I wouldn’t make assumptions and judgments about him on this.

    Hugs. I hope you feel better soon. <3

    ~ Melanie

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:01pm

  249. 249: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    oh and also, if i felt icky or unloved with a man putting his hand on my neck i would FREAk. or at least stop the interaction then and there. probably feel way turned off and shock shaky

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:06pm

  250. 250: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “About the hands on the neck – Unless he was actually trying to fully choke you and prevent you from breathing, that’s actually a very common erotic move that many healthy men and women enjoy.”

    That being the case, don’t you think that if this being introduced for the first time, a man who has respect for your preferences and also some consideration for you would say something before or at least while doing that? So you can be aware of what’s happening?

    Now that I have typed that it just clarified in my consciousness that maybe the lesson here is about speaking up in the moment. Being on your own side about what you want and what feels comfortable for you.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:09pm

  251. 251: TereanaNo Gravatar says:


    So… I guess I’m distracting myself by contacting another CD. This was a cool story – I started thinking about V before I left town for the summer. I wouldn’t have done anything, except that I saw someone from his company had been looking at my linked in page. Hm…so I took a chance and just texted, hi, how are you? He wrote back. Turned out, he broke up with his GF a couple weeks earlier and was single, and he wanted to see me. *teehee!*

    So we had out first-ever “dinner date,” except that we met as friends, so we split the check. But I was honestly so happy to see him, and he seemed amenable to “continuing” the date, and so we walked back to my place. He stayed over, and we didn’t have sex because neither of us had a condom. But it was so sweet. There is something nice & comforting about being with someone who’s body you know. I felt really comfortable and happy.

    At the same time, emotionally, it still feels like “friends.” I felt hurt when he dated another woman, after telling me he “wasn’t ready” for a relationship. Yet with her, he got ready. With me, he wants to be friends. And he’s attracted to me. But I don’t feel him wanting to take it further.

    It could be that I tend to lean forward with him. I do. Maybe I haven’t been practicing “leaning back.” Enough. I am afraid that I “come on too strong” with EVERYONE, and it turns people off, regardless of the context. That idea hurts me. I’ve always tried to be a strong person. Now I’m too strong? What gives? Why can’t people just like me for who I am? Why do people need to take me down when I’m assertive – is it just that they’re So used to me being a wallflower, and bending to everyone else’s will? Or am I really abrasive in my approach? Maybe some of both. I still am working on how to be assertive. It makes me anxious at times. So maybe that comes out.

    I got totally sidetracked…

    Anyway, V. We had a wonderful night, and then I went off for the summer. A week later, I met up with CCB. For the first time. It’s been a week since then.

    I really shouldn’t use V as a proxy contact. Though, he did chat to me on gchat last week, which was nice.

    Leaning forward is addictive.

    Must give up my addictions…

    But I did some “real” CD-ing today, too, with guys I saw on the street, and at work. (Have a job in Boston already!) That felt nice, and brought my mood up, considerably : )

    It’s good to feel attractive. And I have little or no desire to contact CCB. Well, some. Maybe a small bit. I wrote oit messages I didn’t send. But I can only think of negative consequences for me. And even though I’m excited to tell him something, that is just “urgency” on my part. In reality, it can wait…I still need time to let all the feelings flow through me anyway. And I’m not even sure if we’d make a good couple. Even if I never hear from him, I can feel complete…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:13pm

  252. 252: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    FW, I’m not sure he would know or even suspect that it could be a problem for her, especially not in the moment. If I remember correctly, it sounds like he did apologize when she said it upset her.

    Yes, I agree, it’s definitely about speaking up for yourself when you feel uncomfortable.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:14pm

  253. 253: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    After the first traumatic experience I can see why I if I were in Lisa’s shoes would need a man who is sensitive about my needs. I also believe that I need a healthy talking back and forth about sexual stuff. While I am open to experiencing surprises I know I have to be in a space where I feel tenderness to really melt into some experiences. Tossing me around wouldn’t sit well with me, neither hands on the throat. Maybe it would take years for me to settle into that.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:16pm

  254. 254: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    It’s interesting reading these thoughts, because on another forum the women are complaining about the men not being aggressive *enough* in these ways for their liking. :)

    Years ago I read a book that had a very long checklist for couples to share their likes/dislikes in the bedroom with each other…. the variety on the list was astounding… I think a checklist like that could be very helpful for preventing misunderstandings and lack of fulfillment.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:20pm

  255. 255: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    MMM maybe it is what I am used to but as far as I am concerned he does not need to know or suspect. I for some reason require?? (don’t know if this is the right word) men to be talking throughout. Or is it just my experience?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:20pm

  256. 256: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wonder what Dominique would say about this one?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:21pm

  257. 257: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Nothing takes the place of hearing a voice and feeling a touch. I try to understand but to know that everything is going on all around makes it hard to grasp . Like dropping q little puppy of in the middle of a buddy downtown expressway. I do love and am willing and are trying… I need help.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:21pm

  258. 258: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    whoa FeminineWoman you require men to be talking throughout? that feels intriguing tell more please

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:31pm

  259. 259: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    that might feel connecting for me… i wonder if i require that or could benefit from

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:32pm

  260. 260: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    FW, a lot of women prefer more spontaneity from a man rather than telling or asking the whole way through. There is such a variety of likes/dislikes… it’s impossible for a man to “get it right” every time.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:39pm

  261. 261: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    A previous jewel is an understating comparison to a treasure that is. I am in a place where i have on one hand a love in my heart and a hope for what this had made me feel. And the other hand where have they went and why don’t they care. And now all i can say is i can’t stop wanting and loving. I will continue to improve myself. I see what this means for me. I don’t understand everything that’s Going on but i understand what i found in you. And i know what it breathed in my soul, i can’t ignore what this means. I can never forget it. And its also something that i can’t let go. Can’t i be seen as a necessity. Even if not , maybe desired. All i want is my treasure. My knees will bleed as i crawl to it.i love inlove i love

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:48pm

  262. 262: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    wow, I’m shocked that so many here would take something like a man choking a woman lightly and like its ok since its sex play? that’s frightening to me to brush something off like that, that’s violent and abusive, on a blog like this and makes me wonder that women here will take violent sexual aggression as the norm and that it is OK and just because I didn’t say anything then thats the problem??? what???. just because it wasn’t controlling (though Lisa has mentioned that behavior frequently), its OK? Dangerous and slippery slope. I already think that women take so much ill-treatment from men here and we are yet encouraging of it??? WOW!!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:54pm

  263. 263: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding!
    got it…
    The memory of my interaction with C just wouldn’t turn me loose…I turned it over and over and over in my mind, trying to identify what was bugging me.

    It was a passive aggressive move. Totally.
    I feel so much shame around passsive aggression.
    I hate it. I don’t like it. I think it’s weak and cowardly and a sign of a weak person and weak in a way that is bad and shameful.

    I never want to be that way
    but I know I’ve done it tons and tons
    I don’t even want to love my passive-aggressiveness, I just want to get rid of it. Put it in a box, make it disappear.
    Ick ick ick.
    I love myself for being honest.
    I don’t even want to forgive myself for it…I want to FIX it, CHANGE it, DO something about it, ATONE for it with C, make myself wrong about it.

    I want to at least be more aware of it, so it doesn’t bug me so much.

    hate hate hate hate it.
    (No worries, y’all, I’ll get over it, just riffing…)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:54pm

  264. 264: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i just got struck by how decidedly obvious it is that im saying

    “i think you’ll be happier with her than you will with me”

    to bookieman

    i mean like i really believe this and even could say this and was imagining saying this which is the truth that i really am resonating


    i voted against myself this whole time, even though i tried to ‘figth’ it

    i really really believe this

    how could i not?

    i dont see how this could be different as this is so obvious reality to me

    i really mean that


    or maybe my truth is

    i dont think ill be happy with you given the experience of this situation

    but its also the other one


    energetic push away

    i wanna heal this

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 2:59pm

  265. 265: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Your my world , the shelter from the rain
    Your my pills that take away the pain
    Your the light that helps me find my way
    Your the words when I have nothing to say.
    Still tangled up in you.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:00pm

  266. 266: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i think ANy man will be happier with (any) Her than with me

    becuase being with me is not happy

    being with me is struggle and being with a demanding desperate crazy woman who takes on too much who takes on the world and stands on cliffs and blasts herself with lightning bolts

    and then gets iill and you basically gota follow her and care for her and that sounds terribly boring

    unless your broken and kinda scared of your sexuality yourself

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:00pm

  267. 267: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i cant offer shit but radical intensity and exoticness

    and thats not homy or assuring

    you cant land on intensity and exoticness

    only look from a distance and feel terrified by the great winds

    i feel sad!

    i love my sadness

    i want to heal this!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:01pm

  268. 268: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    at least you get to feel great honor in the presence of glory

    how can i make this feel homy safe and good too?

    i feel sad

    i really think youll be happier with her boo!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:02pm

  269. 269: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    no wonder domestic violence and abusive behavior is not taken seriously in our culture when we as women tolerate it and make excuses for it. It’s just sad. We need to take a stand and at the first sign of abusive behavior, put our foot down and walk away. Yuck.

    I know where I’m coming from because I’ve experienced it. And I’ve experienced so many people laughing (yes, laughing) at it and not taking it seriously and it SUCKED. Please take this kinda stuff seriously because it will just escalate if you don’t.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:03pm

  270. 270: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i want too much and im too demanding

    im exacting, and even cruel

    and im so …. into me and you get no love boo

    you shouldnt stay with me im too cold and too intense and too metallic and too lightnign fire

    you should go with her you should go with her you should go with her

    that feels like a relief

    i feel fascinated

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:03pm

  271. 271: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light –

    i think you’re trippin… i never have had that and i want to try it in sex and if that bothers anyone they can suck it

    dont try to label my sex life abusive behavior just cuz your sexuality is different

    i find that just as ABUSIVE to my spirit and psychology

    i feel HElla mad (i think. i just feel numb)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:06pm

  272. 272: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel sad

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:07pm

  273. 273: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel scared

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:08pm

  274. 274: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel guilty

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:08pm

  275. 275: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel pleased and content. i feel sigh of relief.


    attacking/defending ===> feeling release of tension

    but then cycle continues

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:09pm

  276. 276: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    sorry for the attack Liquid Light

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:09pm

  277. 277: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Daria defending her sexuality = mirror of what I do with men


    sigh wow cool

    comes off as ‘demanding’ or to me controlling, etc


    this feels cool to look at

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:10pm

  278. 278: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light,

    Where did anyone post that they were condoning sexual violence?

    I must be missing something.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:12pm

  279. 279: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    wow miranda faith i have “my knees will bleed as i crawl to it” fantasies too when im in love

    thats what i particularly remember most as a fantasy of mine with my first love years ago

    over cliffs and rocks

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:13pm

  280. 280: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    i feel surprised and intrigued to see it come up for someone else

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:13pm

  281. 281: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Ugh….We’re doing it all wrong!!!! :-)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:21pm

  282. 282: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    just because he’s not punching you in the face and leaving bruises, doesn’t mean that its not abusive. we don’t need proof, we just need to feel that its not right and trust ourselves. that’s the most important thing. no man is worth losing our sense of ourselves and letting ourselves getting abused…in *any* way.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:24pm

  283. 283: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I apologize if any of my comments on the subject triggered you. I do not, and will never, condone violence in a relationship–physical, emotional, sexual or any other type of violence.

    From the information that I had-reading Lisa’s posts–it was not clear to me that violence had occurred. I was reading Lisa’s own confusion there and would not want to jump to a conclusion one way or the other as to whether violence had occurred.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:27pm

  284. 284: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light, I’m sorry my comments upset and worried you. None of us here are condoning violence of any kind. <3

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:29pm

  285. 285: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    from what Lisa has said previously, her unease and her lack of trust with this guy because he wasn’t being respectful towards her and didn’t treat her that well at times, from her saying those things, so obviously there wasn’t a feeling of trust and acceptance and respect there, for the throat thing to happen in that context would be a huge red flag that this person is NOT SAFE. that kind of thing has to happen in an atmosphere of safety and trust after knowing someone for a long time IMHO. I’m not judging, just trying to be smart and wanting a man to treat me with respect in the bed and outside of the bed. Those are my boundaries…or will be.

    Also I’m guessing the throat thing was just a more blatant example…I bet that there were other signs previously in the relationship of his disrespecting, being abusive, threatening her even (My ex did this in very subtle ways but he was communicating to me in his own way about the terms of the relationship. we need to be attuned to these things as women otherwise we’ll get blindsided as I did.)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:37pm

  286. 286: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t know what to say except I am going to work on these things coming up here in the next couple weeks and get them taken care of. I am going to keep feeling this love and if I am still not wanted then so be it. I love u. Goodnight

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:44pm

  287. 287: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t know what to say except I am going to work on these things coming up here in the next couple weeks and get them taken care of. I am going to keep feeling this love and if I am still not wanted then so be it. I love u. Goodnight. As I just got a message from my sister from you. I’m sorry your child is having these problems and I want to help. I suppose I can help by being all I can be for me, then I can be there for someone else and I hope its u.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:50pm

  288. 288: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light, I would advise not having sex in the first place with a man you don’t feel safe and respected with.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:54pm

  289. 289: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve experienced controlling and disrespectful behavior from men. And, I’ve been controlling and disrespectful towards men.

    When I was experiencing it, it wasn’t abusive. In fact, often, it was not even conscious. I wasn’t tolerating anything due to my not being aware. And, when I was being controlling or disrespectful I wasn’t abusing my partners. I was just behaving in a habitual fashion. It was toxic, but not abusive.

    The point is: there is such a WIDE range of intensity in any behavior. To say disrespect=abuse is painting with too broad a brush.

    The only person who knows whether she was abused is Lisa. (and, btw, I’ve read the posts several times and I’m still totally confused as to when the throat incident happened, and what exactly was going on there.)

    I never read that she felt abused by him. Only that she felt he had behaviors that triggered her. And, she had behaviors that triggered him.

    My gut sense is that they both put an amazing amount of effort and caring into making it work. I suspect its not the end of the story. But the picture I was getting from Lisa’s posts was of mutual love, caring, effort, and working together with each others issues.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 3:59pm

  290. 290: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Today it feels secure to be soft

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:04pm

  291. 291: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    abuse is much more common than most people know. our tendency as women is to sweep it under the rug and write it off and make excuses for it. I’ve experienced it and don’t want others to do the same. We write it off because we don’t respect ourselves enough to expect better behavior from someone else. We all deserve to be respected but it’s not going to just happen, we have to demand it from the people we are involved with. That’s what I believe anyway.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:08pm

  292. 292: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light, I think we all agree that accepting/tolerating abuse is not good.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:12pm

  293. 293: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “we have to demand it from the people”

    Demanding things feels icky to me. It feels disrespectful.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:20pm

  294. 294: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Femininewoman – 255 -Though this isn’t something I would want to introduce into my own lovemaking, as Melanie said, this is not an uncommon practice among healthy couples. It’s not necessarily a control thing though it can be. It can also be a dom, submissive thing which again isn’t necessarily about control but more about role playing.

    Depending on the couple and on how skilled the person doing the choking is, I hear that it can heighten orgasmic sensation.

    Speaking up in the moment would be recommended if this is not something wanted. – This doesn’t feel good. I don’t want to do this. It would feel so much better……….

    He did apologize.

    Does this answer your question about what I might say?


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:40pm

  295. 295: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light – 261 – It doesn’t seem to me that anyone is encouraging or condoning choking during sex. I think the women here are questioning what it’s about and if this is something acceptable in any way, shape, or form for them.

    Sure it can be a dangerous thing, but it doesn’t have to be. It all depends on context and intent.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:44pm

  296. 296: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    When a man is really in tune with me, he does not need to talk to me throughout sex. For me, one of the ways I know that a guy is right for me is that we are so much on the same wavelength that he just “gets” it. He may not get every detail, and then I speak up – but if he keeps asking my permission, it says he has no real confidence or masculine power … There are plenty of relationships where dominance and submission are played with that are not abusive relationships, and it’s quite mainstream for women to like the mild dominance. They might not even admit it to their girlfriends …

    Now, if a woman really does not feel safe with a man who takes control of sex … okay, then she can speak up and choose other men. It doesn’t make it “wrong” for the women who enjoy this dynamic. It doesn’t make it “abuse.”

    One of the key ways I know if a man is right for me is if he can “flow” with me. Excessive talking about every details breaks that flow for me … This was a major problem with “Felt Unsafe” Guy. He didn’t “get” me at all. He was up in his head, most likely strategizing how he was going to get a relationship with me, and so he was not connected to me at all. It felt very, very tedious to me to express my negative feelings about almost everything he did. So that means … he’s not the right guy.

    With my exes that I was really “into,” they “got” me … sure there were still issues to talk through and mostly things just flowed … I can’t even imagine wanting to be in a relationship where there isn’t that chemistry and flow and “getting each other” …

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:45pm

  297. 297: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Catching up on the blog….

    @LIsa – I’m sorry that you felt attacked earlier. I would have probably gotten way more defensive LOL – I think you handled it wonderfully.

    I do think everyone here (hopefully) is just trying to help no matter how it comes across. :)

    GS called me today but I didnt answer, and he didnt leave a message. I’m glad I didnt answer. I do NOT like the idea now that I only get phone calls during business hours regarding our life. When he gets himself to a place that is ready for me, outside business hours, then maybe I’ll take his call. By then, I may have moved on. Thats the truth, right there.

    I did not answer CollegeCd last night – his text was at 10pm. while I have never established that boundary it is time to do so. He isnt doing anything wrong because we have texted that late before, but frankly after finding out that he was on I didnt feel like speaking with him. I needed some time to think for myself. I am VERY proud that I completely got off of – and pulled it so I cant get on at all – I feel much better now.

    I did text him back this morning. He had asked last night if I bring my lunch or buy it at work. I am sure he is asking because if we start eating lunch once in a while, it would be expensive for him to take me out each time. The places near our work are quite pricey, and I have no problem with bringing my lunch and hanging out with him. So I texted back “I usually bring my lunch……”

    I havent heard back, so we’ll see. If he texts late again tonight, I’ll just text him in the morning and say, sorry, I’ve decided to go to bed earlier at night so I”m not as tired the next day.

    Anyway – I’m still a bit fussy about the thing. I guess it makes me feel like if I was the prize that he wouldnt even want to go on there anymore. Thats how the fairy tale story works…..right?!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:48pm

  298. 298: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    I am so upset right now! Literally spent the entire wknd with H and he never mentioned to me once that he was going out of town for his sons baseball. NOT ONCE! We have had a talk about this in the past cuz he would always wait until he was literally already out of town before he would tell me about it. I expressed to him that it made me feel much better to know ahead of time what plans were. Especially related to him going out of town cuz it happens a lot. He said that he understood and the next time it came up he did tell me ahead of time. Well now he’s back to not doing it again. He just sent me a text and after beating around the bush he told me that he is currently in Michigan (4 hrs away) for his sons baseball. UGH!!!!!! This drives me absolutely insane and I feel is disrespectful. I don’t know what else to do. I’ve already tried to talk to him about it in a “non-blaming” way. I’ve put my phone down at this point. I don’t even want to talk to him right now. Too pissed. I mean, am I wrong? He said he understood how I felt. Apparently it doesn’t matter to him.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:55pm

  299. 299: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I believe if people would just be forthcoming and direct in person it would clear the air. When u care for someone u will go the extra mile and if someone doesn’t know something but only senses that there is a problem then that leave room for error. Such as having to search and try different things to determine what is wrong and to the one that is not forthcoming it can seem that the others actions are something they are not. I just want to love and understand. I’m not a choker or someone that wants to be choked. But I do try to be soft and passionate.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 4:56pm

  300. 300: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    prplprsn: Ok – heres the deal. You guys are exclusive right? Or not? I cant seem to remember, I’m sorry.

    If you are exclusive its different than not.

    My question is – why do you need to know if he is going out of town? Now, I told GS that if he was going to come over, I needed to know by 8 or 9 because that was my schedule that was affected. He complied (when he used to come over…….)

    Anyway – my question is – why do you need to know when he is out of town – does it affect your schedule? I’m just confused….

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:00pm

  301. 301: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel icky and angry reading “we women do this, we women do that…”

    Liquid Light I feel triggered. I don’t want to be lumped in with a generalised ‘we’. It feels so very unsafe to me.

    I would much prefer to read “I feel….”

    I want to feel each woman as she writes. I don’t want to know her opinions. I feel turned off by opinions, particularly those which include me in sweeping statements.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:03pm

  302. 302: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Elsie – Yes we are in an exclusive committed relationship. Going on 2 yrs now. I guess due to the length of time that we have been together I see no reason to not be open with each other about what we’re doing/going. And the fact that tuesday eves are usually our evening together during the week. Something he started a few months ago so that we could have more time together. He says that he meant to tell me before I left his house sunday eve. Well…he texted me last night and he was already in Michigan and said nothing about it then either. I guess I just feel that out of respect to me he could have let me know. After 2 yrs together I feel kinda left out of his life sometimes.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:07pm

  303. 303: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    And he just told me that he was texting me during the drive up there last night. It was helping to keep him awake. I guess I just don’t understand why he wouldn’t mention it. I’m always open with him about things going on in my life. I can understand not being so open in the beginning. But after 2 yrs. Isn’t that how relationships are supposed to be? Open?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:25pm

  304. 304: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so much more at ease in my skin when I am actively looking for the good-feeling things to focus on.

    I only looked at Byron Katie’s webpage once, and yet I think I got the picture.

    Rori talks in her e-book about tracking beliefs that make us feel bad.
    The beliefs are causing the bad feelings.

    Examples might be “I am not lovable”, or “he doesn’t care enough about me”.

    Byron Katie might ask “is it true? Can you know 100% that belief is true? How would you feel if it was not true?”

    People in her interviews said they felt peaceful if they allowed that it was not true.

    I feel excited to root out my subconscious beliefs and ask “Is this really true?”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:29pm

  305. 305: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie…. the fairytale is in your head 😉 what you have is NOW. you are not in an exclusive, committed relationship. you and he MAY get there some time in the future…. but what is now is now.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:29pm

  306. 306: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I really identified my own vision of a fairytale, happily ever after, as one of my limiting beliefs…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:30pm

  307. 307: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I really feel so much better identifying some of my relationships as purposeful. My ideal of happily ever after meant I felt like a failure when each relationship ended. But it really does feel so much better to view them as lessons, and works with what Rori teaches about being curious going forward – why is this man here? What does he have to show/teach me? He may be my life partner, he may not, and that’s ok!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:34pm

  308. 308: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Anyway – I’m still a bit fussy about the thing. I guess it makes me feel like if I was the prize that he wouldnt even want to go on there anymore. Thats how the fairy tale story works…..right?!”

    You are a prize Elsie. For the man who gives you the relationship that you want.

    I feel triggered by the words “fairy tale”. lol…. I was just thinking about this earlier. I don’t believe in a fairy tale anymore. I feel so much more stable believing in something that feels real, and imperfect, and still loving and fun.

    CollegeCD is circular dating.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:35pm

  309. 309: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel more peaceful since I talked with WM about our ‘energy flow’. (it’s reversed – flowing from the woman to the man)

    I’d felt afraid to bring it up for ages. I judged it as ‘explainy’. And then I found a way to include feeling messages; how I felt so often disconnected because I couldn’t feel the energy flowing from him to me.

    He listened and discussed it with me in a way that felt surprising to me. I felt a sense of understanding and nurturing coming from him that was completely unexpected.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:36pm

  310. 310: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I think I am just afraid someone will steal them away from me

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:39pm

  311. 311: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Prplpsn: Oh I remember now. Well, My personal opinion/thought is that there is some reason that he is not telling you this. I think I would maybe visit with him about it in a nonconfrontational way. It would feel like he is intentionally hiding something from me that he knows is important.. Odd for sure – thats my take on it.

    @Zia – Yup. You are right. We are not exclusive.

    @WildGeranium – Yes, I know fairy tales are silly.

    But in my head (dark and scary place, I know LOL) I feel like he would just remember me after 20 years and we would be … I dont know. I’m so silly. LOL.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:47pm

  312. 312: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    I am proud of me and CollegeCD.

    I didnt answer his text last night bc I thought it was too late – boundary. I didnt even have to say anything. He has ALREADY texted me tonight and we are chatting a bit. :)

    Also, I am very proud that I got off of so I am not triggered by seeing him on there. Yay. Go me.

    He is asking about me working out – and I told him that I work out on my lunch hours, and I ran 3 miles today. That felt great – that I am living my life out here doing my own thing, and not just sitting around waiting for a text/phone call etc. Lunch date, etc. from him. :) Love it.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:49pm

  313. 313: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    well I don’t think its that helpful to be an enabler when someone isn’t in a healthy relationship. I enjoy coming here to read the blog esp when someone writes something positive and is having success applying the tools or whatever in their relationship. I try to be positive and reinforce that and give positive feedback. But I rarely get that back here even when I post something positive as I did earlier…its just a big blank nothing and then the endless stories of frustration and struggle get so much play here. Its depressing to be honest. I don’t get it. Let’s reinforce the positive more, not the negative. That seems to happen here a lot and then we wonder why our lives are so sucky. Sigh.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:50pm

  314. 314: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    You’ve been with him for 2 years…. So, is this behavior something completely new? I’m gathering that it is?
    In the past he has been more open about his schedule? And, just recently, he is not mentioning that he is going out of town (or, with the previous trip, being very wishy-washy on when he’ll be back)?

    In that situation I’d just mention it to him (after he is back) and just ask if there is anything you should know. This would be a perfect case for feeling messages and keeping it simple. Not making a big deal, just “I feel x….can you help with that?” Actually, my first instinct would be to tease him about it (what, is he on the run??)–but that is just me.

    I can think of so many reasons why he is not telling you.

    When I was with a man who had children from a prior marriage, he tended to compartmentalize the two parts of his life so they didn’t overlap. This was before we lived together. I think he thought that after several years of dating that I might be starting to expect that I’d be included in family things. So, he was evasive about stuff. Or would “forget” to tell me about a commitment until the day before. I think some of it was unconscious.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:55pm

  315. 315: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Liquid Light -I’m sorry you didnt feel heard that you posted something postive!!!!

    I know that when I went through everything I have gone through the bad times…the good times…..I get a lot of help through my frustration and struggle….

    BUT!!! then there are times that are great – like last Friday or many times with GS, and I get a lot of positive wonderful uplifting heartfelt feedback too.

    I”m sorry that you didnt feel it.

    And for the record – I dont think my life is sucky. :) LOL. !!!!! :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:55pm

  316. 316: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    I think I will send him a text back now and say “Nothing was mentioned last night either. I’m feeling disconnected.” Thoughts?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:57pm

  317. 317: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m glad the exercise is going good for you. Keep up the good work. Proud of you.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 5:59pm

  318. 318: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – you’re not silly for feeling the way you feel! but I just want to point out what we spoke about previously about getting so involved in “the story”… use this to really identify what is going on, if that’s what you want. these men are here for a reason. it’s all about YOU! and it’s wonderful to learn through them! x

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:01pm

  319. 319: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “Hmm … I’m feeling frustrated that I didn’t know we wouldn’t be having our Tuesday get-together … I feel left out when someone I’m close to doesn’t tell me their out-of-town plans …”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:03pm

  320. 320: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium – This actually isn’t new. But after I had a discussion with him about it a few months ago he seemed to understand. And the next couple of out-of-town events he had let me know about ahead of time. Now he seems to be slipping back to not telling me. And, yes, I do feel like he is compartmentalizing the two parts of his life. I think I just feel like after 2 yrs that I should be included a little more then I am. Does that make sense? I do spend time around his family and his kids. Not quite as much as I would like, but I do.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:04pm

  321. 321: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I can’t seem to get away from the house tonight. And I want to go to lunch tomorrow but I can’t get out for my car is broken. Wonder if TT can stop after work tomorrow by the lawyers office. Would love to make a plate forget and child

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:05pm

  322. 322: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie, Thanks for your comment. I am glad that you are enjoying yourself so much and having so much fun cd’ing. It is so inspiring to see the change in you and how quickly its been happening. Happy for you! :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:06pm

  323. 323: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, Elsie, major kudos for recognizing and stopping the thing. Truly :-)

    I used to be quite the little cyber-stalker with my boyfriends. A little mobile phone detective. (don’t judge sirens….)

    At some point I realized how unhappy it was making me. And, I was finding stuff that bothered me, but I couldn’t do anything about it because I was snooping… So, I just stopped.

    Definitely the best way to go!

    I do feel curious…GS called you? You think it was a personal call, but during work hours? Why can’t that man just figure it out and call you at night or on the weekend….jeeze….


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:07pm

  324. 324: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Am I just being crazy? Overthinking? If I were going out of town it would be something that came up in general conversation with him. I’m very open with him. I want to share things with him. I would hope that he would want to do the same with me. I guess thats why I feel “left out” sometimes.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:09pm

  325. 325: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    LL, I hear you feeling frustrated about what you see as negative talk here …

    I feel disconnected when anyone uses labels like “enabler” or tells me what is or is not a “healthy relationship.” What is a healthy relationship for me might not feel good to someone else. It doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

    I’m not here for positive thinking. I had plenty of positive thinking in my life that didn’t help me at all. I am here to embrace my wholeness which includes the light and the dark. I celebrate the joy and I sink into the grief, and all of that is me. I feel tired of being told that parts of myself are not okay. I am here to embrace all of it. I breathe a big sigh of relief when all parts of me – even the dark ugly “depressing” parts – can be seen and heard and loved. To me, that does feel uplifting.

    I hear that you are having a different experience with it.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:10pm

  326. 326: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Nothing was mentioned last night” hmmm. that makes him “wrong”.
    maybe just try feeling messages.
    I feel disconnected
    maybe go deeper underneath the disconnection…
    I feel unimportant?

    ..I need a thesaurus…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:12pm

  327. 327: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I can see how there could be situations that a woman lets dominance turn into abuse, it’s just not every woman. And how are we going to know the difference except by being in touch with our feelings?

    Personally I have noticed that I no longer feel attracted to that kind of “rough” touch by men, which may be because I’m more in touch with my feelings. I don’t know. I feel more open to your perspective if I’m not being labeled as an “enabler” and so forth, which feels very disconnecting to me.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:14pm

  328. 328: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @prplprsn: My thought is to do this in person. If this is your boundary, then its your boundary. No one can say if that is wrong or right. A text can be ignored, and then you will feel worse. Or it can be taken the wrong way. I would wait – plus that will give you time to marinate in how you really feel.

    @Wildgeranium – Thank you – I feel really good about it – I still wonder if he is on there, but dont have a way to find out now. :)

    And yes, GS called yesterday during work hours – he is out of town on business, but only now calls during work hours apparently LOL. I talked to him yesterday because it was a work related question, but then we got cut off. He asked how my weekend was. I just said it was great (because it was!!!!) and then said nothing else. Today I know it was personal because if it was work related he would have texted me the work question. He just cant figure it out – thats the problem I dont think that he is capable of what I need – at least not now – its similar to Mercedes story except I would be bewildered and baffled if mine ended up like hers – I just dont see him changing.

    @Zia – haha – yes, I get caught up in the story. I think im a romantic silly girl at heart that has stupid dreams and ideas of how things go – which is why it took so long for me to end my marriage. Thank you for pointing this out because I really do want to change that – it feels so much better like when I let go of the story with GS……

    @LIquid LIght – I’m so glad you took my comment in a good way. Yes, for right now I’m doing good. That could change at any moment!!! LOL I’m a roller coaster!!!

    By the way, after he texted me many questions and I answered about my running/gym time etc. I was suprised he didnt ask anything else about lunch. CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.

    This is how I know I’m growing and not rowing the boat. Before, I would have texted that I can skip another workout if he wants to go have lunch etc. Now, I am not rowing the boat. He knows I’ve skipped workouts obviously now to be with him at lunch – if he wants to eat lunch with me, all he has to do is ask.

    Clearly he is still connecting with me. But wow I really notice how I want to control –

    When is he going to text?
    Why is he on
    When is he oging to tell me his schedule?
    When is he going to ask me to lunch?
    Is he going to ask me to lunch?
    Is he going to ask me out again?
    Is he going to ask me out this weekend?
    Do I need to start thinking about plans for child care this weekend if he asks me out?

    Wow – exhausting.

    I see that part of me wayyyyyyy far in the distance. But that part of me is tired and arms hurt from rowing a boat. I’m so glad I’m kicked back with this beer getting my tan on. THAT girl sounds exhausted. :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:17pm

  329. 329: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “I’m not here for positive thinking. I had plenty of positive thinking in my life that didn’t help me at all. I am here to embrace my wholeness which includes the light and the dark. I celebrate the joy and I sink into the grief, and all of that is me. I feel tired of being told that parts of myself are not okay. I am here to embrace all of it. I breathe a big sigh of relief when all parts of me – even the dark ugly “depressing” parts – can be seen and heard and loved. To me, that does feel uplifting.”

    Erika, this feels so strong and healthy. I love it…


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:17pm

  330. 330: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    322: I’m a cyber stalker too. I had to actually make a counter on my whiteboard as to how many days without looking at my ex’s fb I’ve gone. My aim is 40 days. I also had to install an app on my phone to block his texts, and set time limits as to how often I check to see if he’s texted me. I’m in a good place now but I still need these tools… old habits!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:18pm

  331. 331: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Wildgeranium.

    I also want to share that I shared myself today very authentically with someone some very “forbidden” parts of myself … I’m not going to write it here, and I’m sure all conventional wisdom would say not to do it … before I shared it, I felt anxiety …

    Since I shared it, all of me, without censoring, without trying to “protect” the other person from it …

    I feel a deep feeling of peace … a deep deep deep feeling of peace … that unexpressed part of me was really, really tired of being unexpressed and shoved down … she feels much more quiet and heard now.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:25pm

  332. 332: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Erika, you are right, I try not to give a lot of voice and energy to the negative. I believe that what you think about and speak about will just come back to you so I really try not to put out a lot of negativity. But to be honest, I tend to think in a negative, fatalistic way (its kinda the natural default for me) so I’m trying to retrain myself, and sometimes I’m even successful. For instance, not to toot my own horn, but my life is actually pretty awesome right now. I’m out of what I would label an abusive (or at least not healthy) relationship and am moving on. I’ve got a great job that pays me well, I am doing my art and actively showing it and proud of that, and my relationships with most of my family and friends (the ones that I want to invest in anyway) are improving and deepening in amazing ways. Now why should I feel ashamed of writing that here and not expect to get positive reinforcement? WEll, I don’t based on what I’ve experienced here but there you have it. Yes that’s my opinion but that’s what it feels like here, and honestly out in the world a lot. Many women can’t be positive about another woman’s success because she doesn’t feel good about herself. Tired of that. I’d rather be around women that can give positive feedback and reinforcement like I can give to them! Now that’s likely coming from a woman who feels good about herself and there ain’t nothing wrong w ith that!!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:25pm

  333. 333: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “By the way, after he texted me many questions and I answered about my running/gym time etc. I was suprised he didnt ask anything else about lunch. CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.”

    I think this is a Mars/Venus thing. On Venus we gather info then act right away. We’re always gathering info, prioritizing, accomplishing at the same time.
    Martians gather info and then take it back to central command with the other info and then they make decisions and strategize. And then, eventually, they will reveal their plan to you (or, ask you on another date).

    This is excellent. He said he would row the boat. And, he is gathering all the information that he needs in order to do that. Perfect.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:28pm

  334. 334: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Feeling uplifted and encouraged when I have thoughts of being together with JP (aka TT) all the time wanting to show what they bring to my life to make me happy. And then I feel overwhelmed and gloomy when I think of not having them. So wonderful JP is and fragile and caring. I want to show them im better and not bad. I love them so completely and yet I can’t see them or hear their voice except on the 4th ring of a voicemail. Makes me feel so empty inside. Will it ever be line it was before , can I ever hold them again. I miss it I miss it so much..

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:32pm

  335. 335: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    LL, that sounds wonderful, everything in your life that has turned around. I celebrate that with you :)

    I also can relate to what you’re saying about the “attraction” many people seem to have to negative. I feel this frustration sometimes as a blogger. If I’m writing about something I’m upset about, sometimes I get lots and lots of comments and attention. If I’m quietly being happy, sometimes that seems to attract no attention at all … and it can feel quite frustrating. Seeing people “click” on links that go to media drama, for example, instead of learning tools like what Rori teaches, and like what I teach, that actually make their lives better … I get it …

    And … I feel comfortable here sinking into negative feelings without “sympathizing” or participating in drama. I also feel that working with my negative feelings and having some very honest “negative” conversations with people has dramatically improved my relationships also, and my health, and everything else …

    So … I feel comfortable having your voice here and I also embrace the other voices here, and I like practicing with how I can “be” with the negative feelings without getting pulled into the patterns or falling into “sympathy.” For me, that’s great practice for all areas of life. Does that resonate with you?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:33pm

  336. 336: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Zia :-) LOL like one of those “xx days without a workplace injury” signs…I love it.

    I’m so lucky with my ex (7 year guy)–the very first thing he did (literally, before we even had a blow up) when I discovered he was having an affair was to block me on Facebook. What a guy right? 2+ years later I’m still blocked. And, I’m SO glad. Best thing he did for me!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:36pm

  337. 337: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranium – LOL. He is now a martian. Thats about right – because all acts of men are alien to me. LOL – Ok – I’m cracking myself up way too much at that. :)

    Yes. You are absolutely right. Last week, he said – he wanted to go out with me again. He would let me know his schedule. Then 3 days later (after no texts) he said – how about Friday? He was gathering the information and then going back to central command. LOL

    He better row this boat. If he doesnt then it ain’t going anywhere. I promise you that. He can just step right on out to make room for another.

    Come in my room.
    Leave my room.
    One request. Dont stand in the door. :)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:37pm

  338. 338: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light,

    I did read your post earlier and felt excited for you. Sorry it got lost in the fray….

    I’m in CA too, and CW is in the PNW.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:44pm

  339. 339: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    LOL – I can totally picture that sign….

    It has been xxxx days since I have checked or facebook.


    Its almost like an AA meeting.

    Hello my name is Elsie, and I’m a facebookholic. Its been 10 days since I last checked my ex’s FB page. LOL

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:44pm

  340. 340: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    335: haha my ex blocked me too!!! then he unblocked me and i was back to stalking… and he had so much stuff open and public. i just couldn’t help myself. i’d feel BAD every time i went to his page but i just couldn’t help myself!! i feel crazy just admitting it haha I LOVE MY CRAZY

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:45pm

  341. 341: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    It’s been an hour and a half since his last text. I have not responded. I’m sure my non-response has him thinking that I’m upset. Cuz he knows how I feel about this. I don’t want to communicate right now while I’m feeling frustrated. I’m trying really hard to TRUST (as Dominique so often talks about) but I’m having a really hard time with it. Bleh!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:50pm

  342. 342: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    338: Hahah I know!! I just love those parts of me and accept them and admit that if that’s what I have to do to move forward then by golly I’ll do it. And having it up on my board means I can see it. Last time I got to 5 days and I felt bad when I had to reset the timer to 0. So now each day I up the number I feel good, and I remember how bad I felt when I had to reset it to 0 and that in itself allows me to bring myself back to the present moment and focus on what’s going on in my life right now. I feel embarrassed to admit it but I even have had to set myself the task of “do not check the blocked texts archive until Friday” to stop myself from checking every day to see if he’s texted. It is SUCH a habit thing… the other parts of me are happy and feeling content!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:51pm

  343. 343: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @prplprsn: Maybe he doesnt think anything about you not texting him back – you dont know.

    But……he probably knows that its a deal for you. Plus it sounds like Tuesdays are your night to get together with him.

    If you dont feel like texting then dont. Do what you feel is right…

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 6:56pm

  344. 344: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    You guys want me to CD? FINE.

    I got a new bite. :) Lets call him SquirrelCD. He is way too young for me – but wow – a hottie.

    Hes got his text on with me tonight. :)

    Are you sirens happy now?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:02pm

  345. 345: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – YES hahahahah go you!!!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:03pm

  346. 346: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m living vicariously through all you saucy cd’ing sirens….. I honestly haven’t had any bites!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:05pm

  347. 347: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    What is this setting the timer thing back. I don’t think I know about that. Can someone elaborate. Thanks :-)

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:05pm

  348. 348: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    CLEARLY I am able to skip a workout to be with him – I’ve done it twice now.

    Why would you though?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:10pm

  349. 349: ElsieNo Gravatar says:


    I am texting BOTH CollegeCD and SquirrelCD at the same time. LOL.

    By the way – YOU WERE RIGHT –

    CollegeCD just texted me that he has his kids Thurs. Fri and Sat. – he was gathering information at the alien home base. LOL

    Ok – now, can I suggest Sunday? I know he wont suggest it because he thinks its not an option for me – so can I suggest it?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:13pm

  350. 350: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    He actually texted

    I have the kids Thurs Fri and Sat. :(

    With a SAD FACE!!!!

    Can I write “Why the sad face?”

    ….even though I am assuming its because we cant get together????

    Help! Quick!!!!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:14pm

  351. 351: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    The Love Seeker

    The love seeker and the love giver
    live in different worlds.

    The love seeker doesn’t know how to love.
    She is so concerned with how much she is getting,
    she doesn’t realize she isn’t giving love at all.

    Forever counting and measuring,
    she goes into her head and closes down her heart.

    Yet until she offers love, she will be miserable.
    Until she gives without expectation of return,
    the love that comes back to her will never seem to be enough.

    –paul ferrini

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:26pm

  352. 352: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    The alien home base….lol

    Tell him to have fun with his kids! You’ll be getting your tan on….(probably don’t say that)


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:27pm

  353. 353: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    What about the timer question,

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:28pm

  354. 354: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    OK – I KNOW he is saying this because its obvious he wants to go out with me…..

    I dont want to look like an idiot like I missed that, etc.

    Can I just type “Wait….why the sad face?”

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:29pm

  355. 355: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie I thought you had decided not to text because it was late?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:31pm

  356. 356: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Yes. In circular dating you are not supposed to switch around your schedule to accomodate the man or men.

    I guess changing your priorities or accomodating his schedule is the equivalent of rowing?

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:31pm

  357. 357: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    miranda sorry for some reason I am not connecting with .your train of thought

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:33pm

  358. 358: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    think I’m getting confused again. I’m dipsy at times. There was a comment about setting the timer back to 0 when he tried to contact. I didn’t know about this concept and I am really trying to understand things. I would love for my relationship to work so I’m just wondering if there is something I need to be aware of that I’m not so I can do things right

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:44pm

  359. 359: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I dunno Wildgeranium … the first year I had my blog, I gave a lot with no expectation of return … and I sure was pissed when I wanted to quit my job and nobody was giving back to me financially … for me, it’s about knowing I deserve the best and expressingly myself clearly instead of “giving to get” … having no expectations to me has always felt kinda impractical and I’ve definitely seen men use this kind of thinking to try to get from me for free …

    Then supposedly “Felt Unsafe” Guy was all about service … and really that was a bunch of baloney … he was giving to get … and it felt really yucky …

    I’d really rather live in a world where people are honestly in touch with their needs and expressingly what they are giving and what they’d like in return openly and honestly …

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:45pm

  360. 360: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    ok so
    the gleeful feeling im having with regards to my situation with my ex… when i sink into that i realise it’s because i still harbour some unresolved resentment over the breakup. time to really explore this and let the last of the resentment go. i feel that once it’s all gone, lesson learned, we’ll be untethered. it feels good to be aware and willing to explore.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:46pm

  361. 361: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Oh Miranda, I understand your question now…

    We were making a joke about how we cyber-stalk men (looking at ex-s facebook pages, etc.) so in an effort to break the habit we have a unofficial timer. Let’s say we reach 5 days without looking at his facebook, and then we look. Then we have to “reset the timer”.

    This is not an official Rori Raye tool. At least, not yet!


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:48pm

  362. 362: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    do you have Rori’s e-book Have The Relationship You Want? That is the best place to start. Many tools are explained there.
    I refer to it again and again.


    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:52pm

  363. 363: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Oh miranda sorry that was me – explaining how i deal with moving forward from my ex.

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:53pm

  364. 364: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Iok thank you. I was thinking it was about him not calling or texting and when he does the silent no contact timer starts over or gets more time added

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 7:58pm

  365. 365: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    I’m smiling reading your posts tonight… I feel proud of you too! You know, the guy *might* have been checking match to see if *you* had been on there. (You HAD!) Who knows? If you’re going to tell yourselves stories about it, you might as well make them feel-good ones. :) (Although *no* stories is great too!)

    ~ Melanie

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:19pm

  366. 366: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    The interesting thing about dominance and submission, is that sex by its very nature involves at least a small measure of that. The extent of it will vary from person to person and couple to couple. That’s why trust is so important (to trust *ourselves*, at the very least).

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 8:23pm

  367. 367: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so calm, and more collected and centered dealing with these issues. I feel my worry and irritation just drifting away. Aaaaaaah, release!

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:20pm

  368. 368: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Zia, I was noticing the blog got really quiet, and I also am feeling so calm and peaceful … was wondering if everyone is feeling it :)

    These days of doing nothing just kind of melt into each other now … it kinda feels timeless …

    Tuesday, 23 July 2013 @ 10:25pm

  369. 369: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I went ice-skating for the first time yesterday and it was such a magical experience for me. It was perfect. I learned to trust myself so much and was kind of awed at how much I could trust myself. There was so much me in the experience and that felt so amazing! Started off very wobbly and by the end I could skate by the barrier for long stretches without clinging for dear life. It was such an inward experience and the people there were so pleasant, so benevolent. I knew that there would be a high probability of falling but when I eventually fell I felt like yes! I am now no longer afraid of falling. But when I fell suddenly there was this man to help me, like instantly, he checked that my skates were properly fitted and gave me some tips on how to skate better – and in such a caring way – wow I loved that, it was magical and I felt such appreciation for this man who was doing his manly thing – — yay! And I had no expectation, there was no need.

    Also, I’m slowly able to think back on BM’s expressions of love. The pain of possibly being duped or of unwittingly attracting a man who is bad for me has diminished enough for me to explore. Also getting stuck in hoping that we could be together again diminishes and instead I can feel love again in me. I love how he came to me straight away to comfort me when I broke down into tears in his presence – I could tell him my fears and he was there. I love and receive how we felt free to try many different things sexually and his attention of me during sex. I love and receive how he cherished my touching of him – that felt wonderful.

    And now there’s this flood of good feeling. and relief.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:17am

  370. 370: ruthNo Gravatar says:


    Interesting about the respect

    yes maybe
    At work I am very much in boy mode, have to get things done , info put across etc to help my patients be as well as the y can be

    I kind of have it in my head that it should be different in relationship-that I can be*myself*
    I cant always do that at work, and neither should I
    But in relationship?

    Stuff to think about

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:26am

  371. 371: ruthNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa you sound better today

    Hugs to you

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:27am

  372. 372: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda faith,

    I am very concerned about you with this guy. Your words to him are gentle and beautiful, yet have an extremely obsessive quality to them. I am sorry if this triggers you, but as lovely as these ideas are, they would turn me off if expressed to me, and I’m a woman. There are very few men who can take this level of intensity in words, it would push most away.


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:44am

  373. 373: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I have read back over your postings and I can see you felt good about something yet it wasn’t clear to me exactly what that was.
    Have you got a new date?
    I would love to hear you write more poetry about this good feeling.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:53am

  374. 374: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    I have been thinking and feeling my way thru the boundries I have in my life.

    Some have fuzzy soft edges some have hard corners. Life is affording me plenty of opportunity to test my ability and resolve to stand by them right now. Of course, hind sight is my best teacher.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:08am

  375. 375: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I hope you are okay.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:35am

  376. 376: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    WildG and Erika

    Thanks for your words of support, I appreciate it!


    It was an email from someone that I knew long ago, an old friend who is a cute, nice and interesting man! I feel excited about hearing from him (I thought he dropped it a while ago) and for the first time in 6 months, I feel the thrill and excitement of a potential new romantic interest. I really didn’t know if I was capable of feeling that again so it was a nice surprise! :)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:41am

  377. 377: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I was feeling a bit sad the other day and set myself a goal to FEEL it and then release it………………. easy peasy now btw…………….. radio on and dancing around the room and then…………………. a love song came on………. felt the little bit of ” I want a man to sing this to me” feeling…………….. Know what I did? hahahaahaha! I stood in the mirror and sang it to myself! Really got into and sang my heart out at the top of my lungs! I cried and it was so beautiful to watch myself go through all the feelings and not look away and kept on singing and loving ME! It felt very sweet and cherishing to do that for myself. I got ipod out and played songs that I used to cry at, feel the lack…………… Now I sing the love songs to myself. Stevie Wonder’s ‘Isn’t She Lovely?’…………….. Amazing when you sing it to yourself and look in the mirror and MEAN IT to yourself…………. although I do love singing that to my Little Siren.

    I feel excited to be on Earth this day!!!!! :)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:00am

  378. 378: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Been away for a couple of days and I’m not even close to catching up but…

    Elsie…I’m confused (although there is a very good chance I missed something because I’ve been scanning trying to take in most of what has happened so please bear with me here). You are upset that you saw CollegeCD on match because, in your eyes, if he loved the date on Friday, he would not be there. You say you loved the date on Friday. But then you went on That doesn’t make any sense to me. You can love the date on Friday and go on and it’s nothing but he can’t do the same? Sorry…I’m very confused by that.

    I really think you need to be circular dating. And I don’t mean just texting, I mean dating. Lots of men. Really. :-)

    You know I love you girl and if I’m missing something here, please accept my apology in advance. I’m just not seeing anything other than a double standard with what you expect from a man vs what you are able to do yourself…

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:21am

  379. 379: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.

    — Wayne Dyer

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  380. 380: AmbermaeNo Gravatar says:

    I need your help, I’ve been dating this guy for a month now and I like him a lot and he tells me he feels the same about me but he never calls even when he promises to and he only wants to see me on the weekends I’ve tried talking to him about it but that didnt seem to work. I’m at the point now where I stopped worrying about it so much and think he will call when he wants to talk to me but it still gets to me because I like him a lot and want to try to have a better relationship with him I’m just not sure what to do or how to do that.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:41am

  381. 381: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    FW a couple of times you have posted the question,’ What do you want in a relationship?’………… sometimes differently worded but the same……………. This question has been floating in my mind. What do I want? How? What does it look like???……………………. It feels really huge. I sometimes know what it looks like, it changes though. Sometimes I feel so good to be single…………… I haven’t been single as an adult before. I got married at 24 and that age sounds mature enough, but looking back……………………….. I wasn’t quite rounded out enough, mature enough. I am enjoying this time right now. I enjoy being with my daughter and seeing, making friends. I feel not alone. I feel healing myself and being comfortable in my skin again. I feel kind of selfish of myself………………….. only that’s a negative word and it’s not that word …………it’s a feeling of Lookie me, aren’t I lovely??? OMG! I forgot and look what I found! I missed you! I don’t want to share me yet……………….. a little longer in the cocoon? More to learn?…………..

    Final answer…….. I don’t know what I want in a relationship or if I even want one right now. That can change on dime though………………..

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:42am

  382. 382: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Living my yoga today:

    We all need the same things: safety, love, respect, and laughter. How can you contribute to your own safety, love, respect, and laughter today? How can you help meet those needs in others?

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:44am

  383. 383: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    380 Mercedes………………………….. Nice to see you lady!

    Answer: I shall smile with my soul to all and lend a helping hand where ever it is needed…….. be it picking up a stray bit of trash on my path to helping a fellow traveler in need. And more smiling…… Smiling is my favorite:)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:56am

  384. 384: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Ambermae, Welcome – and the solution to this (and to EVERYTHING “dating”) is Circular Dating. Read everything you can here, get the ebook Have The Relationship You Want over in the sidebar, and we’ll help you…Love, Rori

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 10:22am

  385. 385: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    There is sooooo much uncertainty in my life at the moment … and my guidance is consistently saying rest, meditate, take care of yourself, do nothing … and I still feel happy. How about that? :)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 10:22am

  386. 386: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Liquid Light!

    I’m so glad about your excitement that you felt a spark with someone new, or different!

    I love to celebrate the positive so I am with you on that one!


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:01am

  387. 387: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Seahorse: Nice to see you too! :-) Your plan for today sounds perfect! And to add to the cool factor…..I saw a police officer stop his own motorcycle on my lunch break today. He picked up a random piece of trash (soda bottle) and pulled into the gas station I was at. Threw it in a trash can. LOVE that!!

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:09am

  388. 388: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Last night D gave me the most wonderful hug.

    It was the best hug he has possibly ever given me.

    This was after the day of being worried and anxious when he was sick and I didn’t hear from him the whole day.

    And I we were together last night and I went to him and said “I’ve waited a long time to do this” (well, it felt like a long time!) and he wrapped me in his arms, but all the way around, and held me to him, and there was a melting, in him, that I don’t think I’ve ever felt before, as if there were no barriers, no frontiers. As if he understood completely what I needed in that moment.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:11am

  389. 389: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Indigo! I’m happy for you too – great hugs are the best!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:15am

  390. 390: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo: I love that! There’s no better feeling in the world than a melting hug when you need it the most! YAY you!!!

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:20am

  391. 391: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    a facebook friend posted this today on my wall and boy does it hit home…

    Abusive relationships are characterized by control games, violence, jealousy and withholding sex and emotional contact. An Emotionally abusive man is harder to pin-point and a skilled, abusive man can easily make you think you aren’t GOOD enough or that everything is YOUR fault. It is just as difficult to recover from emotional abuse as it is from physical abuse. Emotional abuse causes low self-esteem and depression. An abusive man may tell you he loves you or that he will change, so you won’t leave.

    Control—He is overly demanding and must be the center of your attention. He controls finances, the car, and the ACTIVITIES you partake in. Becomes angry if woman begins showing signs of independence or strength.

    3. Superiority—He is always right, has to win or be in charge. He always justifies his actions so he can be “right” by blaming you or others. A verbally abusive man will talk down to you or call you names in order to make himself feel better. The goal of an abusive man is to make you feel weak so they can feel powerful. Abusers are frequently insecure and this power makes them feel better about themselves.

    I’m just getting better at sensing it… and feeling so good about the fact that I listened to ME for once… and realized it felt off and bad… His other actions that were so kind and generous clouded my ability to see clearly.

    I’m feeling so much better now, and happy about me.. Circling dating and have 5 new prospects… flirting in the healthfood store today was easy with the dance stance… and open heart…

    I’ve learned and loved so much about me the past few days… it’s amazing… I feel like a new person! I love me…. and even the me that protects me b/c looking out to make sure I’m not in another toxic relationship…

    Love never ends… but staying when I feel control games going on… isn’t about loving..

    As @Dominique said, Love isn’t enough…

    I deserve a man that makes me feel good, and cherished not controlled and as if my feelings and needs don’t matter…

    Next time, if it happens again, I’ll be more on top of it and quicker, if the hand goes on my throat, get up and leave! No assuming it was harmless… and no tolerating it… or allowing it to be down played.

    I’m so happy I listened to me…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:25am

  392. 392: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Just saying it. I’m nervous. Very, very nervous. Since we don’t know when or how long it will take for the yoga studio to really take off and be able to afford the rate I want for my life, I decided not to put my corporate career on hold just yet. I applied for a promotion today. I feel very unsettled in my tummy. Very. I will leave it up to G0D to determine what is best. I will. It’s not easy. Easier said than done at any rate. But I will. I will meditate and release this. This is out of my hands…no need for me to hold on to it. What is right will be.

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:26am

  393. 393: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    I wonder if I am nervous because I want it or because I don’t…

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:27am

  394. 394: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been praying and meditating and praying and meditating on this hoping to discover what it is I needed to do. I don’t really know if the answer came or not. All I know is I had until tomorrow morning at 8:00 to put my name in and I did it this afternoon…

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:30am

  395. 395: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’m off the feed, to take a break from the posts…

    I’m doing much better! Loving my broken heart…

    Thanks so much for asking.. I feel loved!


    I can’t thank you enough for your kindness the other day! My heart filled up… <3


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:32am

  396. 396: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:36am

  397. 397: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes, wow am I hearing similar from a lot of people right now. A lot of us are in these kind of “limbo” places of transition … feeling a little “white knuckley” lol … I hope the answer comes and brings you peace … and I hope your yoga studio (which sounds really exciting) gets going quickly … warmest wishes for happy outcomes in all areas :)

    A friend/collaborator and I just ordered up two miracles, and then we agreed that our guidance is to “do nothing” and she went to take a nap. Maybe it really needs to be “miracles all around, please …”

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:45am

  398. 398: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:


    Please take good care of yourself, and pamper yourself, and get lots of rest. You are going to need to heal and that make take time, I know that it did for me. Give yourself as much time as you need, don’t try to rush it. (I did that and didn’t help.) It was very challenging for me to make sense of it all and be at peace with everything…and I’m still processing but doing much better overall.

    Anyway, I wish you the best going through the breakup and beyond…it sounds like you are doing great!

    Big hugs!!!!


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:48am

  399. 399: Cool mamaNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, what girlfriend wisdom! I’d so live some of this. I found myself exactly where the book talks about. He has all the power and I’m waiting to see him the measly twice a week he has decided. After an obsessive four months which he says was all too much even though it was like Thr entirely
    At his instigation (to which I responded every time, I know). Feel like my heart is breaking but know I have lessons ti learn. Hope I
    Can join this conversation. I have to aPy the 8 week break idea and stop contacting him! Pls send me strength, I can’t stop crying and I’m seeing Him Friday night!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:18pm

  400. 400: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:


    One other thing that may be helpful, it has been for me but I just started doing this. I wish I had done this earlier but maybe I just wasn’t ready.

    Remind yourself of the above list that you posted over and over again. Because when you start to remember the good times, your mind will play tricks on you and you can easily fall back into missing him and wanting him back. Its at those times, that you must bring your mind back to the list and the specific things that happened that are examples of the above. It’s been a tough lesson for me and it took me a while to realize I was doing this so maybe this will save you some time and pain.

    Maybe this won’t happen to you, I hope it doesn’t, but in case that it does, I thought I’d mention it.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:25pm

  401. 401: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes- I love how you processed that. What will be will be. Just so. Peace be with you and keep on breathing. Much great good luck;)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:54pm

  402. 402: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light- I hear ya sister! Keep on keeping on…………………… and SMILE!!! :)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:55pm

  403. 403: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Peace be with you Lisa. Breathing helps deep and down low…………………. Happy cding! ((((((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))))

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 12:58pm

  404. 404: elsieNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes…..I didnt have an actual
    Profile on….lol
    I admit i just used it to stalk. Lol

    He texted me back and we decided to meet up on sunday at my place for movie and dinner….. he is so.stinking sweet….and so attentive.

    I love that it was tues and he was giving me his schedule for the week. Lol

    Mercrdes…im not quite officially divorced yet. Its hard yo circular date…im trying!!!

    Oh….and GS totally notices me.pull.away. i dont story with him.ends like yours mercedes.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 1:01pm

  405. 405: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Seahorse, I’ve been smiling a bit more recently…I’m moving away from this very small, isolated town (for many reasons like career and to be closer to family, its just an added bonus that I’m also moving away from him). I think I’ll be smiling even more after my move on Friday! I’m getting really excited. Before it felt daunting and scary (and it still does a little) but mostly it feels exciting!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 1:08pm

  406. 406: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    And another reason I’m moving is to improve my love life!!! oh yeah, more options will be good!!! :)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 1:12pm

  407. 407: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: Oh…just stalking him??? Ok…that makes it all better for you to be on match and not him. Got it. :-) Just kidding…you have to be able to see how that sounds to me, right? haha!

    I understand that circular dating is hard and I won’t push it any further (or I’ll try not to) but please try to take a look at existing patterns in your love life and see if it gives you the results you want for you. Being on a couple of dates with a guy and stressing because he didn’t call/text one day (I think this was last week or something…maybe Monday???) and stalking him on match probably won’t get you a vibe and a feeling of security and confidence and happiness. I’m not trying to be mean here at all…just giving you something to look at or be aware of should negative feelings or neediness start to show up very early with a man. Does that make sense?

    And I don’t think your story ends like mine either. I think we both have our own stories. I don’t even know how mine ends. 😉 I just know I’m enjoying the ride I’m on right now…and that’s what I want for everyone else too!

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 1:24pm

  408. 408: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    So many things that Lisa posted about abusive men remind me of my ex. It just makes me sick, and makes me feel like crying all over again. This kind of behavior is insidious because just as it says:

    An Emotionally abusive man is harder to pin-point and a skilled, abusive man can easily make you think you aren’t GOOD enough or that everything is YOUR fault.

    This really hits the nail on the head. Ughh, so f***** sad that I didn’t see it earlier but like the article says, these kinds of men are very skilled at abusive behavior, the kind that can’t be proven.

    But I’ve just got to pick myself up, dust myself off and move on. And know that I will never let myself get involved with someone like that again. I learned the hard way, and it has been very, very hard, but I won’t let it happen again… Ugh

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 1:54pm

  409. 409: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes you have the eye of a hawk :)

    Really great assessment there.

    I had wanted to say a few things but thought it best not to.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 2:08pm

  410. 410: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    FW: :-) Just saying what I’m seeing/feeling/expecting to see….hoping I’m off base.

    Much Love,

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 2:40pm

  411. 411: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I just popped in to see a few posts.. I’ve been purposefully not …

    Yes, that is what I’ve been through also! and why I have a part of me that won’t allow me to get heavily involved with a man like that again.

    my recently ended relationship felt good sometimes but left me feeling down and crying lots too and I couldn’t pin point exactly why … but it was so subtle that it was digging at me inside like crazy.. hence my recent need to analyze why… I’m glad I did… now that I let go and are grieving… I remember the signs…

    and your right! my mind is already trying to remind me of the good times to make me miss him… I’m glad you reminded me…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:27pm

  412. 412: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Some people might like hand around the throat in sex and in my opinion that should be discussed and not just done… but that is me…

    and I have the intuition to know that when things have happened repeatedly.. that is sign for me to perk up and pay attention…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:28pm

  413. 413: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Watching the Toxic Men program, where Rori is talking about the hidden payoffs for being with a man who you consider to be mean/indifferent/or whatever his undesirable traits are:

    You get to be opposite to him, and BETTER than him.

    “Part of the reason that we choose a man who doesn’t live up to our standards is that we get to be better.
    This comes from a subconscious life-theme of I am inferior or second class or not good enough. So I am gonna hook up with a man that I’m gonna feel better than (on a really deep level).”

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:29pm

  414. 414: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Good quote from Toxic Men, April Rose. Thanks for posting it.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 3:35pm

  415. 415: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – no, you were SPOT ON. I saw it before you said it which is why right when I noticed it I got straight off. I dont have anything on there anymore. Not a username not a password thank you very much. :)))))

    He and I are meeting on Sunday at my house for movies and probably dinner. So that should be very relaxing and totally fun. I’m excited. He said that he was very much looking forward to it. Its a nice change of pace that on Tues. evening he is giving me his schedle for the whole week – I never even asked for that LOL.

    GS texted me today to see what was up. Uhhh…..ok. Whatever. He can feel me pulling away. I’m sure he can. He’ll have to deal with it and either step up or not. My guess is he wont because he is incapable, but I cant be in fix it mode with any other man, no matter how much he says he loves me.

    I will try ciruclar dating. Let me get through the final paperwork Mercedes!!!!

    Oh – and Mercedes – what will be will be. I”m sure that G0d Has something wonderful in place for you!!!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:00pm

  416. 416: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – 411
    “You get to be opposite to him, and BETTER than him.

    “Part of the reason that we choose a man who doesn’t live up to our standards is that we get to be better.
    This comes from a subconscious life-theme of I am inferior or second class or not good enough. So I am gonna hook up with a man that I’m gonna feel better than (on a really deep level).”

    I totally noticed this with C.

    I especially notice this when I get online messages from men who seem “good”. I feel shakey and scared and not good enough, don’t feel like I have anything to offer, don’t feel like I measure up…I feel shivers of self-loathing for being a lowly admin assistant at my age, who can barely dress herself and I’m like…what am I doing thinking I can have a man? All the good ones are out of my league and I don’t want the yuck ones anymore.

    I feel a wave of prickly hot shame riding up the back of my neck and my face just typing this.
    A good man makes me want to go into the wrongness of me.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:13pm

  417. 417: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    oh … I feel moved to tears right now … actually I’m gonna start bawling … time to record a video so this powerful moment doesn’t slip away …

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:18pm

  418. 418: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I should say, the “thought” of a good man.


    Although, T is a good man, just not the one for me.
    Actually, my connection with him brought me right out of a spin today. I walked out and the guys were setting up to play dominoes and I felt so excluded, and sad that I didn’t feel welcome to play and I sat in my car and cried for a minute before something yanked me out of it and said, “T would never leave me guessing like this. I don’t want this. I have had at least a measure of love, with a man who will talk through anything and everything with me, and he would never leave me feeling shaky and unsure of where I stand. He’d never just stop talking to me or not want to work things out.”

    Knowing that I’ve had at least that, that at minimum is possible, that I know one man who lets me know where I stand with him and won’t leave me guessing and it’s always always always ok to call him, even if he has a girlfriend, because nothing shady is going on and anyone who knows him knows his feelings for me, for them, and knows where *they* stand with him, too.

    Thank goodness.

    compatible values.
    yes thank you.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:27pm

  419. 419: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    I love this article. Beautiful Sirens, I have been away. Dealing with a lot of issues. Update:

    Amir came back to me on his own accord, even though at the time I was practicing the tools and doing “text your ex back”. We had a good several weeks of romance and lovely times. But, because I feel uncertain about things, and about my position in the relationship and I am kind of tired of all the feelings (probably due to some of my life situations and stress) it became too much for me, and I didn’t feel right about staying in the relationship, so today I told him that. And I broke our connection off. It took a lot of “balls” to do this, but the feeling and intuition that I had to leave this relationship was very strong. I need to work on myself and find the person who I will become, and who I need now.

    Ladies, I’m sharing because I feel like I need backup and strength to take me through what I fear may be at times “lapses” of judgment and second guessing what I carefully considered in regards to Amir and my relationship.

    Help and guide me through this time sweet ladies :/

    Thank you, I look forward to catching up :-)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:49pm

  420. 420: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I still feel shame coming up…
    I chose juicy, sexy black women in sparkly, tight dresses, high heels, and attitudes as my ideal of beauty and ‘rightness’
    and I feel like a frumpy, dumpy, lumpy, pasty white woman who can never ever ever compare to that.
    I’m not all strong, good with my anger, commanding…able to command men’s respect like my imaginary ideal
    and wow do I beat the crap out of myself for that every day.
    It’s like..I don’t even want to dare to accept me and love me and embrace me the way I am because somewhere deep down I feel
    I am
    Feels like…
    sideways sidling away
    backing up

    I feel scared I’ll be one of those way obese people with bad hygiene in the “Lowered Expectations” SNL skit..
    I don’t want to be that ewwwwwwww
    I want someone better than me
    and I don’t feel like I can earn that or have that or am worthy of that
    I don’t know.
    wow this is making my head and neck burn like crazy

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:50pm

  421. 421: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Hana – I’m proud of how strong you are being – if you know your decision is right for now then it is right for now. Who knows what the future will bring in your life – maybe him back – maybe someone else……I know its hard right now though for you….stay strong!!!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:56pm

  422. 422: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    yes, Lisa, it so subtle and so insidious that you question yourself constantly and no one believes you, and that makes you feel even more shaky. That’s why I wanted to say something because I’ve been through it and unless you’ve been involved with someone like this who is basically one big mind-f***, you just can never know how f’d up and crazy-making it is!

    Hang in there, girl! If you need a shoulder, you’ve got mine (virtually anyway) 😉

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 4:58pm

  423. 423: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Feeling stronger about not being able to connect with the things I want. Doesn’t mean I still don’t cherrish them more everyday just I have to express that I feel how I do, and that I’m always wanting to learn more and all I can and that I’m always here. Feels bad to keep reaching out with calls and text that aren’t replied to, so I don’t want to seem obsessing, I never was I just felt confused and hurt and wanted answers why. That was my fault. I’m able to love without being understood, care without being acknowledged,and respect without being told. What ever can make someone happy is what make s them happy. How I feel doesn’t matter because, I’m still here being the understanding one and offering a way to feel better about this, but really it sux. I make mistakes sure… I also make potatoe soup. And i really from the bottom of my heart do want so much more out of this and to learn and adjust and consider and respect and protect and to cherrish and care. To give my all in every single breath to pour my soul out to satisfy the one that says ” you can love me as much as you want” i felt safe to do that and when i did i felt a change like i was strange or i was too much. What ever happened to ” your the best thing to ever happen to me” i know what happen to it. Nothing .. Because i know inside me that i loved with a pure heart and with true spirit. <3 thank you for the space on here ladies.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 5:11pm

  424. 424: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda –
    You wrote: To give my all in every single breath to pour my soul out to satisfy the one that says ” you can love me as much as you want” i felt safe to do that and when i did i felt a change like i was strange or i was too much. What ever happened to ” your the best thing to ever happen to me” i know what happen to it. Nothing .. Because i know inside me that i loved with a pure heart and with true spirit. <3 thank you for the space on here ladies.

    Wow. Very poetic. That moved me very much.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 5:16pm

  425. 425: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    So I feel a little triggered by the “eight weeks no contact” thing … mostly because of all the Course in Miracles work that I do that is all about understanding that everything is now … and how we use time to separate rather than join …

    I decided to weave it into a video. Sometimes I open to “random” pages of ACIM and add whatever text opens to the video, and I did that today. When I tapped on this, this is the passage that opened:

    “I have conceived of time in such a way that I defeat my aim. If I elect to reach past time to timelessness, I must change my perception of what time is for. Time’s purpose cannot be to keep the past and future one. The only interval in which I can be saved from time is now.”

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 5:27pm

  426. 426: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Elsie. Its just me trying to speak through my cloud. It isn’t me trying to make a difference its just what has been growing in my heart for the past several weeks continuing to seep out. Someone inspired me so much and I’m just sitting now reflecting, and pondering how to not fix my relationship, rather be thankful that i still know how to love and feel. I would love to hold and feel and kiss .. I loved the encouragement in their eyes and the willingness to accept me. But i can’t sit and be sickly inside. How would that help them… And so i say WA WA WA what would the animals be made out of? :'(:-):-D:'(:-):-D<3<3

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:01pm

  427. 427: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Indigo ( I hope that is who posted it.. I lost the spot)
    “You are wonderful just the way you are!

    “The reason you are being held up to such a high standard is because you are on this path. I know it can feel frustrating at times because you think, I’m so wonderful, and I have so much to give! And you are, and you do! But once you start on the journey of self-awareness, there is no going back.

    Lucky, lucky you

    THANKS so much!!! for that.. and I agree

    YES! I do know that… I’ve been doing it for 20 years… it is insane at times… Hell at times, and even unbearable at times.. YES! and yet you are correct nothing I can do… once it is in motion…

    and I’m seeing triggers coming from all different directions…not just “M” and then dealing with my life, and lack of sleep and stresses that come up… it’s a lot on one’s plate… so being secure or not… when a person is over the top with stress, events, and triggers and all the emotions that go with the triggers, plus trying to work the tools and FEEL and process… I can’t do it all at times… because I’m one person… and it does get the best of me…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:06pm

  428. 428: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, now looking back I saw signs…

    but I wasn’t sugar coating them, I was waiting to see if they would go away or work themselves out…

    and yes, now I wished I had just walked away.. when that big gut feeling came around and yet I don’t b/c I had an amazing time with him and healed a lot… opened my heart up again and felt love… even if in the end.. it wasn’t healthy for me..

    I did have those gut feelings.. yes! for example:

    One night on a date which was the night after another date, he was tired and told me, I’m not going to be myself tonight b/c I’m tired.. but the issues came up like taking my food abruptly from my plate and correcting everything I said, and challenging everything I said… that was the first sign of having to be right all the time.. and that was on the 4th date….

    and then tossing me around during sex roughly – apologizing and then letting it go for awhile and then 2 mos later I’m told.. ” I like having you were I want you”… I again thought oh assume that it’s ok (safe)… but now I see it wasn’t.

    I was being patient and working the tools to see what would happen, but now am seeing that sometimes walking away is the best tool to use…

    Someone can be a good man or person and be giving and kind and yet still have un dealt with trauma that causes issues… and that makes it tougher… you never can tell if they will be able to work it out or not…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:19pm

  429. 429: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    @ Lisa…

    You said he likes having you where he wants you.
    like to know more on what that means? Thanks xoxox

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:41pm

  430. 430: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I do understand that everything is mirror, I’ve been doing The Work for over a decade… that’s my job to judge someone and then do the work on it and turn it around to myself… I know most of you don’t know that about me…I get it!

    I work on myself and about myself and turn it around to myself 100’s of times in a day…

    Yet, the other day, too much was coming to me from all different directions and too many triggers and it piled up on me and I couldn’t get one done before here comes another…. all the while trying to do work and take care of a child…

    It got the best of me… and when someone is going deeply down inside the crap that triggers us, we don’t deal with things the same way..our emotions are raw and we are coming from that place of wounds.. and it takes time and space..

    I realize though that when a post is directed at something I posted and it isn’t directed at me.. it feels sad to me.

    Can you please call me…… was what I posted

    and I read a post that said that feels controlling etc…

    I guess I feel that as a jab b/c I know it was me that posted it and yet, it wasn’t directed at me, and it wasn’t explained…

    I can’t be it all and do it all as well as you that have been doing it for years… that’s just the truth.. and I’m going to make mistakes.. and yes that might have sounded needy or whatever, not sure how it was controlling but that I guess it an opinion..

    I make mistakes! I do! I will make another one before the day is ended… and if a man can’t handle a “Can you please call me?”… after he sends me an e-mail that was a curt as what he sent me, then I’m questioning if I want to be with him… you see I love the tools, and I get them and I believe they work but at times it’s like I have to be super cautious and walk on egg shells around a man b/c of how fragile they seem to be. And yet the other day I felt like everything I was doing was being analyze also.

    It was a simple request not a demanding request like what he sent me…
    and yet now I see that I was cowering b/c of his harsh tone and demands..

    Elsie is right he did command me a lot – like a parent would a child… and that was his idea of leading..

    So, this work with Rori’s tools gets to be too much for me sometimes ( like the other day) when I feel like I’m walking on egg shells b/c men are so fragile that I have to watch every word I say.. I notice they don’t watch their words so much they expect us to accept them as they are and yet I feel as if I can’t, I have to watch everything I do around them… and also if I can’t just simply ask for a phone call in a polite way without having to analyze it… to death.. of whether it was controlling, needy or whatever…

    It feels like a double standard to me… It also feels like I can’t be myself..

    so, I guess my dilemma is how do I use the tools to not walk on eggshells and not have to analyze everything I say to a man to the point where I feel they are so fragile they can’t handle a simple polite request… b/c all that does is add stress to my life…


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 6:45pm

  431. 431: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    “Can you please call me?” feels fine to me. I would say that to a man (IF I liked talking on the phone, which I don’t. :) )

    I don’t know what the issue was in the situation… The only thing I would be wary of would be if we were both wanting our own way (one wants to talk on the phone and one doesn’t) and we made the other one “wrong” or expected that the other person should/must give into what we wanted (a “power struggle”).

    It goes back to what Rori says about taking no for an answer. And then, if there are too many “no’s” in the relationship and we are feeling bad most of the time, we choose to leave the relationship because it’s not what we want.

    Does that help at all?

    ~ Melanie

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:03pm

  432. 432: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – This doesn’t exactly apply to what’s going on with you, yet it might help you feel better.


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:08pm

  433. 433: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    I am not an expert so I will defer to their excellent advice.

    I will say this. Rori, Dominique, CCarter, Queens Code, its all GOOD STUFF. But at the end of the day, you have to figure out who YOU are, and then make that the best possible version of you. I sometimes see on here, women who work so hard at these tools that they forget that they are just TOOLS and not THE END in and of itself.

    Mercedes and I both dont like to use the word feel every other word. I use it but not in every sentence. There are other women on here that use it all the time. I think its what is comfortable for you.

    These tools are here to help us understand OURSELVES and become the best WE can be.

    For example, I intensely dislike Byron Katies The Work. Yes, I have read it and learned all about it for a very long time. I INTENSELY do not like it. But there are people on here who love it and it helps them – so GREAT!!!!

    But at the end of the day, I truly believe what Dominique has said a million times, a realtionship should mostly be EASY. Its the work on ourselves that is sometimes hard. But if you have to constantly feel like you are putting a square peg in a round hole then……sigh. Its just hard work with no results.

    Thats just my opinion.

    And I am practicing what I preach.

    That little tiny stint of me being on for a couple of weeks and then stalking him last week felt horrible to me. I have NEVER done anything liek that before, and it felt icky. I”ll never do it again. :)

    I have no idea why he hasnt texted me tonight and seriously dont care. I have been on the internet, playing with kids, and CLEANING! :) Woo hoo! Laundry folding here I come!!!!

    The point is I am living my life. Anyone that wants to join the ride can come join it (Its a pretty good ride with me – I”m fun to hang out with…. LOL) IN the meantime do whatever you want. You find someone else’s boat you want to row on – then row away. :) I’m in a good place right now.

    I just think I”m in a good place because I”m not trying to be something I’m not anymore and not trying to work so hard with these tools to make myself someone that I”m not. They have helped me instead realize who I really am. :) (I’m awesome by the way. LOL.)

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:17pm

  434. 434: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    @lisa.. That resonates with me . I felt similar in my relationship. Always trying to be passive and apologetic because I felt that they took everything to heart. Even the silly joking things. Thanks for that post… XOxO

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:23pm

  435. 435: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Which was just how I was looking at it…and not really how they were

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:34pm

  436. 436: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Great points, Elsie – it really is so important to stay true to ourselves even while we change through growing and learning.

    Along those same lines, just now I was taken by surprise by a comment left on one of my articles. A woman wrote that she scored very high on the anxious attachment quiz at the end of the article – and then added that she’s thankful her husband loves that about her! So often we hear that anxious behavior will push a man away – yet here’s one woman who evidently is true to herself in that respect, and it *doesn’t* push him away… it *works* for them in their relationship.

    And that brings to mind what Dominique often says: “You can’t say the wrong thing with the right man.”

    ~ Melanie

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 7:34pm

  437. 437: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I was the one who reacted to “can you please call me”. I apologize if my comments offended you. I What it did for me, reading it, was to paint all kinds of different pictures in a split second. One of child begging. So that felt yucky. Next it conjured up for me the picture of a powerless woman using a whiny voice to get a man to pity her. That felt controlling. The voice was whiny but the choice of words was kinda telling a man what to do and demanding. Maybe my mind just glossed over the please but I visualized the man hearing it and lashing out in resentment.

    Maybe I am too visual but that was what I saw. I also “heard” a tone of voice. And visualized body language. Maybe it triggered something I don’t like about myself. Maybe a memory? One thing I know is that it had me making an unconscious vow never to use that phrase again. I found myself trying to find other words to use because it felt for me like the person with the lower status in the relationship asking the person on the pedestal to please call.

    Maybe I am too dramatic.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:27pm

  438. 438: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique did you mean to post a link?

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:28pm

  439. 439: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Polite request – sometimes I saw forget polite because to me that is focused on the other person. I agree with Dominique who says bring it back to you.

    “I feel so shaken or like I have been slapped and would like to clarify some things so I don’t make assumptions”. When is a good time

    Please call me suggests to me you want to talk he doesn’t. So in unconsciously prioritizing his need above yours or maybe playing out the parent/child dynamic in the relationship the words spilled out. Thoughts/feelings/words/actions are driven by each other. Maybe asking “what am I feeling” before using those words might identify what is going on with me and eliminate the need to use those words. In this context.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:42pm

  440. 440: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Also for me the focus is not about pointing out mistakes. It is about shining a light on something that might be flying below the radar of consciousness.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 8:56pm

  441. 441: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    When’s a good time to call sounds good. Xoxo

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:06pm

  442. 442: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Haven’t heard from H at all today. Because we’ve talked about it in the past I know that he knows how I feel about it and I’m sure he realizes that my non response last night means that I’m disappointed. So now he is retreating, pulling away. That’s how he seems to handle conflict. Ugh. I will not initiate the contact. This is one of my boundaries. Keeping my days busy with my kids.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:08pm

  443. 443: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    It’s just frustrating for me cuz we had such an awesome wknd. I spent the entire wknd at his place and even spent a little bit of time with his kids as well. We really connected and were really close. Things seem to be going really well in our relationship but for some reason this and the fb thing trigger me. I’m not sure why.

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:11pm

  444. 444: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Its overwhelming to always ask myself why, so I do that less by telling myself that magic exist and true love is real that people need time to see what is real. And I am confident that love will prevails. Counting days seems strange to me but knowing the hearts intent…. That’s impowering and revealing. Its late and I need rest so goodnight all you wonderful people. God bless. :-) XOXOX

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 9:48pm

  445. 445: IndigoNo Gravatar says:



    Sending you both virtual love from across the ocean.


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 10:01pm

  446. 446: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa 429

    I SO get it.

    On Monday I was in that place.

    I felt as if our conversation where he told me that he was really sick ended abruptly (he probably didn’t think so, and that is something *I* have got to factor in and take on board). But in the end I was left feeling absolutely sick with worry and yes, a little frantic that I could not get through to him.

    There was a time a situation like that would have driven me to be absolutely beside myself. I mean as in, totally over-the-top anxious, crying, foetal position, desperate, in huge amounts of pain. And it would have caused me to talk to him in a way which would have expressed all of this – emailing, phoning, texting many, many times. I’m not proud of this. And yet this is the place just a few months ago.

    I could feel the difference in my energy on Monday, I really truly could, even though my emotions were running high. It came out in the way I expressed my messages to him. I noticed they were soft and loving, rather than demanding and desperate. And I STILL feel a phone call or a message to let me know how he was would have been good.

    And I was able to ask for it.

    And we were able to talk it out, and it was all good. Rather than dealbreaking or relationship-ending, it brought us closer together. Wow.

    And I was amazed.

    I’m not comparing my situation to yours because clearly they are very different. I guess I’m just saying I relate so much to working out those feelings that are in me – especially when you’re trying to untangle your stuff from what you need from a man.


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 10:19pm

  447. 447: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    CW told me early on to text him and see if he is available to talk on the phone–the phrase he suggested is “are you available to talk right now”? I can also just call and he’ll pick-up if he can. He dislikes text intensely, and feels that I hide behind e-mail too much (he won’t “discuss” anything serious on e-mail. I feel like I express myself much better in writing but I respect his needs and I am working on my telephone communication skills).

    Anyway, I’ve called him the last three days and he has been involved with something every time. On Monday he was walking and we talked and he was going to call me back later in the day to confirm something–he didn’t. Tuesday I called him again and he said he was still figuring it out and I had caught him in the middle of something so he said he’d call back later–he didn’t. So this morning I texted him and asked if he was available to talk. He texted back “not really, right now. What’s up?” So I texted back: “I was just wondering if you’d had a chance to find out about X(thing he was checking on)? The story I’m telling myself is that you are either very busy or you are avoiding me. Is there something I should know? ”

    It turned out he’d received a small writing job and was on a very tight deadline and he just needed to be absolutely focused. I realized (again) that avoiding or not responding is just not who he is. However, single focus and getting lost in work (and overworking)is him. I can’t take that personally. Its not about me.

    Anyway, my worries got resolved with no drama. He didn’t get irritated. I didn’t make it all about me. He was sweet and thanked me for checking in with him.

    I felt good about myself because I recognized that my worry was just a story. And the story was not true of course. I’m getting better and better at dropping the story.


    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 10:25pm

  448. 448: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa 394: you’re welcome :) xoxo

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:29pm

  449. 449: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Anytime is good to hear from someone you love.. I’m really glad that your doing well. That fetal position remark sounds sad. I get upset myself very bad and I feel that expressing it doesn’t help so it is more challenging for me to express a relaxed state of self expression . But I sure do love my sunshine. <3 xoxo

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:35pm

  450. 450: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Having so much fun on my self love journey….. best thing I’ve ever done. And I’m looking forward to saturday night, heading out on a girls night with one girl I’ve only met a few times and the rest of the girls I’ve never met before. Can’t wait to make some new friends and get my flirt on with men!

    Wednesday, 24 July 2013 @ 11:36pm

  451. 451: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman,

    About bringing things back to me when I want a man to call, yes yes YES!

    That is what helped me get over the anxious state I described above. Sinking into the feeling, going deeper, sitting with the discomfort, bringing it back to me, NOT making it about him at all.

    And finally yes. I was able to identify a way of talking that worked for me and expressed what I was TRULY feeling and that felt good to him, and was in a way he could hear.

    I will add, what’s so great about things between me and D now is that we don’t talk about this stuff much. The brief misunderstandings that have come up – I think there have been three of them in the last two weeks, have been talked out in 10 minutes or less with no drama or fighting at all. I love this. I love that I don’t use therapy speak with him any more. I love that we don’t have long, draining conversations where we misunderstand each other. I love that we are giving each other the loving benefit of the doubt. I love it. I am so happy in this moment.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:24am

  452. 452: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Breath play is definitely to do with control. It is to do with power play and control. Breath play.

    Extremely dangerous if anyone wants to consent, then that is up to them. I certainly would not want to encourage it though.

    Just know the risks before consenting. In 4 mins without air you are at risk of cardiac arrest, if you can’t be brought back they will be charged with muder or manslaughter regardless of if you consented. Even if you just pass out or are brought back brain damage can occur. If people still want to plat and risk it, up to them. Lisa did not consent to this power play. She was abused, she was a victim here and he was the perpetrator.

    Anyone doing this where consent hasn’t been given or asked for has abused someone plain and simple.

    What feels deeply upsetting to me is how this abuse to Lisa is being mimimised and brushed over WTF! I feel sick about that.

    Lisa, what are you even thinking having any contact with that man.

    Huge red flag.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:25am

  453. 453: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Regarding your beautiful thoughts in 194, Wildgeranium,

    Yes, that is the state I am striving for to. “Just being”. And it feels wonderful being able to do that more and more, accepting who I am, being who I am, existing in calm and relaxation as much as possible.

    Last night I cooked dinner for D and myself. Sometimes he cooks, but mostly I do. I find it hugely therapeutic and relaxing. After dinner we settled in to watch something on the couch and without thinking too much, I offered him tea. He said yes please, and then backtracked and said sweetly and gently “no, you’ve done enough, you sit down and enjoy your chocolate” and he brought me tea. I almost fell off my chair. He has never said anything like that to me before. It was so gentle and masculine, and it was lovely for me to see this.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:32am

  454. 454: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium 446

    It seems you and I are both learning that :)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:35am

  455. 455: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel very sad to hear you were assaulted like this Lisa.

    And sad about other peoples lack of acknowledgement about that abuse.

    This hurts my heart.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:49am

  456. 456: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    For those of you interested in dance as a sort of therapy, I went to a “5 Rhythms” dance celebration on Tuesday. Each event focuses on a different theme. Tuesdays theme was “chaos”…we moved/danced/sweated, & wove in and out of spaces filled with at least 100 other, chaotic dancers. It was lead by a facilitator, & had purpose and intention. They’re held all over the country. It felt pretty amazing.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:56am

  457. 457: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    How was Lisa assaulted, is she ok?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 4:24am

  458. 458: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda . Lisa said that a man who she was invloved with tossed had previosly tossed her around during sex and was contolling in other ways. Then last week during sex put his hands around her throat without prior consent and she felt scared.

    That is classed as sexual assault and abuse. She could have him charged if she wanted to.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 4:58am

  459. 459: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    I did Femininewoman, thank you.

    Lisa this is for you.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:24am

  460. 460: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, I hope she is ok. Thats terrible!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:34am

  461. 461: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling that I hope it is a wonderful day, and full of smiles and happiness. I miss so much about the laughing and smiles and considerations. I’m glad to know an amazingly wonderful individual that is helping me smile about be. Blessings to you all…

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:08am

  462. 462: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena u seem so inflamed about this issue, may I ask if are so informed and knowing of this who is ” he” that u refer?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:13am

  463. 463: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I feel I have been silenced on this thread o have no feed coming through and it seems there are several comments missing…

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:17am

  464. 464: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I feel I have been silenced on this thread o have no feed coming through and it seems there are several comments missing…

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:17am

  465. 465: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda I believe it is related to technical glitches. Every so often I notice it happens to me too and I have also seen other people comment about losing posts too.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:31am

  466. 466: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I know about comment being hung up in mod, but I’ve never seen where I see messages to people having a conversation and not see the other party anywhere on the post

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:53am

  467. 467: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I’m reading this article over and over and nodding my head…yes, yes, yes, I’ve been doing this, this is the pattern in my family, this is exactly what I was taught, what I’ve been doing….
    I’ve felt the feelings of hostility that come up with feelings of dependence (and vomity shame, too!)…

    It’s making more and more sense.
    The procrastination, the so-called laziness, the helplessness, the confusion…so much of it I knew at an intellectual level, that I was raging against myself and mostly hurting myself, but I didn’t know what to do about it.
    Now I’m ‘grokking’ it and it feels like the simple awareness of it, partnered with the strength I’m cultivating by facing and feeling very difficult and challenging feelings and saying “no” to what I don’t want…is creating feelings of lightness,
    as if resistance is falling away
    errors in thinking correcting themselves effortlessly.

    “Whatever passive-aggressive traits we may have are strikingly akin to what is known in psychology as hostile dependency–and both terms are similarly oxymoronic. Since we could never trust that our parents would respond positively to our needs, now grown up we’re still not comfortable being in situations of dependency. But if, nonetheless, we’re saddled with unmet dependency needs from the past, we inevitably bring these needs–as well as our ambivalence about these needs–to all our close relationships. So if we give mixed messages to those we’re involved with (ultimately leaving them hurt, confused, or even outraged by our hostile-dependent reactions to them), it’s because we’ve never resolved our internal conflict about being dependent in the first place.

    It’s important to realize that passive-aggression is not necessarily less aggressive simply because it’s passive. Essentially, passive-aggression is an indirect form of aggression–not necessarily a milder form of aggression. Consequently, even as our unmet dependency needs from childhood may compel us toward relationships that offer us the hope of being comfortably dependent on another, our un-discharged anger toward our parents (who frustrated these needs initially) may prompt us to dump these still unresolved feelings on anyone who might actually be disposed to care for us. But whether or not we’re empathic enough to be aware of it, being late for a date (or breaking it at the last minute) with some lame excuse can still be extremely hurtful to another–as can a sarcastic remark thinly masked as an attempt at humor. In both instances, we might claim innocent intent, but we’ve nonetheless managed to draw blood. And finally our innocence must be seen as questionable.”

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 7:12am

  468. 468: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, and the manipulation…Wow…just…wow.
    So. Much. Manipulation.
    Ick. Ick!!
    throws hands up in air

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 7:14am

  469. 469: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    This especially:

    “In both instances, we might claim innocent intent, but we’ve nonetheless managed to draw blood. ”

    I feel good that I practice not claiming innocent intent, because often I do know I’ve been out for blood.

    It’s a desperate feeling…a feeling of clawing at prison cell walls. I feel like a wild animal sometimes…I want help, love, help!! so desperately. I’ve been craving that feeling of relief that comes with those “a-ha” moments…yet it’s as if something primal feels activated the way an injured animal will often bite if you try to help it or a drowning person will take you down with them in their panic.

    And in not leaning forward with C, I lived through a lot of those feelings this past couple of weeks.

    Now I feel a lot more clarity in what I want in a relationship and have an idea of what I’m going to change in my online profile.

    This is what I want, this is what I want this this this…!!

    The Possible Relationship

    I can feel it in my bones.
    It’s possible.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 7:29am

  470. 470: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    “What was askew in our old notion about love was that we had thought of it as though it were a vector, which in math is something that has direction and magnitude (and in biology is a disease carrier!). Since a vector is like an arrow, we dubbed this the “Cupid” model of love. Trying to love using this model looks something like this: Boy finds “someone to love.” Out comes an arrow and “ping!” he shoots it over to her – and then waits. Will she shoot one of her arrows back? If not, he’s lost part of his love (good thing he played it safe and didn’t shoot all his love arrows over to her!). But if she shoots two back, wowee, she loves him more than he loves her! What if another guy comes along and shoots her an arrow? Whose love will she return? After all, there’s a limited supply of love arrows . . . and on and on the game goes. Fortunately, we made the discovery that love, rather than being a vector, was a space – a limitless space – that any of us could enter by letting go of our protective games. Each one of us had our own door to the room of love, one uniquely shaped in the image and likeness of our naked selves. We had to leave our masks and armor and baggage outside the room of love and could only retrieve them by leaving love. Judgment, taking offense, blame and guilt are a few of the components of that baggage – they exist only outside the room of love.”

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 7:30am

  471. 471: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m not sure about all of the comments here. But I do know that I am feeling like there are a good many irrational views on relationships at times. For instance in my relationship i found a place that was sweeter than any i have evr had, focused on each other, giving to each other and with all sincerity that i could ever expect. And it opened my eyes to great possibilities of a lasting relationship that i was hoping could lead to marriage. And then after a disagreement about a comment a simple misunderstanding we argued and then i haven’t seen them since i talked to them a few times and texted some but i feel they are wanting space. I was at fault because i forgot that i shouldn’t joke about saying what i said for there were issues they had from before i started dating them. I know that i have worked hard to understand and all i have cone to know is that they are a delicate fragile person on the inside. I didn’t fully understand how much until i couldn’t be with them. Then i looked inside me and said what can i do to make me a better partner and more understanding, when really that’s what i always wanted was someone i could nurture and love and let in my self and know all of them. I am hopeful this might resonate and that i am worth believing in because this is all i ever have wanted is to have that special love with someone. And if it can’t be with them then i still love. Is that wrong?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:08am

  472. 472: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I’m not sure about all of the comments here. But I do know that I am feeling like there are a good many irrational views on relationships at times.”

    If this is your belief why then would you want to ask “Is that wrong?”. Aren’t you concerned that you might receive irrational advice?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:14am

  473. 473: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda Faith,

    To be honest, I feel confused when I read your posts. I am never sure if they are just stream of consciousness, or words for someone else, or questions, or feelings about a particular man. I just don’t follow I guess. I really want to understand you, but I feel a disconnect between your words and you as a person. Does that make sense?


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:26am

  474. 474: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Reading some scripts

    Paying on a date

    Him: So you never want to pay for anything?

    Her: I feel open to negotiating, especially after I’ve known you for awhile…but basically, It doesn’t feel good topay for things on a date…it doesn’t feel….romantic to me. What do you think we should do that would feel good for both of us?

    Texting but not call:-

    When he DOES call, say “Oh it feels so good to hear your voice. I love the texting, too, and you’re so great about that, and I really like hearing your voice on the phone”.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:30am

  475. 475: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda Faith: Can you give us an example of some of the irrational advice you’ve received or read here?

    Also, when you discuss your relationship, are you referring to one man or multiple people? I’m confused about the words “them” and “they” when you are also talking about “him” and “he”. Sorry if you explained this already and I missed it.

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:47am

  476. 476: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I had a wonderful experience in meditation yesterday morning.

    I was practicing mahamudra meditation where one does not try to create a state of tranquility/samahdi but allows the mind to enter into tranquility naturally. Its like allowing every thing else to fall away, but you have attention towards the non-attention….hard to describe…

    Anyway, I’d been reading a book about healing wounds the night before. And, I was realizing I was at a sort of road block where my false self was not allowing me to feel some deeper stuff. I was not able to access feelings.

    So, I’m meditating and really quickly feel a wonderful tranquility, and then all of a sudden I could see and feel this wonderful golden light–like a warm sun–that I knew was my core essence. And, I realized that my wounded inner child was so terrified of this light shining where she was hiding–it is very black there–and afraid that if that light was allowed to shine that she might die. It was a fear of dying. And, I started crying and crying. Reassuring her that I wouldn’t allow the light to hurt her, and that I would protect her always and that I loved her and not to be afraid, it was going to be ok. All the while I still had access to this image of my core essence of light and I realized it was pure love. And as I cried I could feel a physical pain in my heart, finally, I could literally feel it breaking open and it hurt, but I was happy because I knew that breaking open was part of allowing love in from myself and from others. And, then I became aware that there was someone else’s golden light and true self essence there in the space with me. And I knew it was CW’s. And I recognized that this was how we connected in the beginning–before our ego’s started protecting us from each other–and I felt it was possible to be connected that way, that we always were and that I just had to allow it, just “be”.

    All of that was 15-20 minutes maybe. And I felt SO good afterwards….it was a huge layer that I had uncovered.

    I feel tingly and happy re-living it again.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 9:12am

  477. 477: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    How To Get Him To Ask You Out

    Using the power of feminine tough to draw a man in and encourage him to ask you out can take on any of the following forms:

    1. Softly touching your collarbone while you speak with a friend or sit at the bar.

    2. Subtly running your fingers through your hair or gathering your hair in your hands and moving it to one side of your shoulder.

    3. If you’re sitting down, running your fingers along your arm, or anywhere else that feels natural.
    It may take some time for you to master feminine touching without feeling silly, but I urge you to keep trying.

    Once you master this vital skill, you’ll be amazed at the incredible men who start to take notice.

    For even more little moves you can start doing to make him ask you out, watch today’s Dating Den here.

    Here’s to you, loving your love life.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 9:15am

  478. 478: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Nice one mani

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 9:33am

  479. 479: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    loops I mean marni. I think my replies are in mod. Sorry

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 9:36am

  480. 480: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda faith,

    You will get a message when your replies are in moderation. I’m seeing your replies.

    I believe the problem you are having is due to your internet browser cache. You need to re-load this page or shift-reload to see updated comments.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 9:52am

  481. 481: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Yes Syreena 457, I agree, extremely alarming and troubling! This kind of thing is not be taken lightly and the fact that many others here weren’t also alarmed is really troubling to me as well. If this is what he is doing now (after 5-6 months) who knows what he would do down the road…this kind of behavior will only escalate because her going along sends a signal to him that it’s OK and then he can move on to even more sadistic, controlling behavior. Scary s***!!!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:00am

  482. 482: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I found myself in a really amazing space last night by practicing something really simple, and I want to share. It’s related to what I’ve heard discussed here about the Work by Byron Katie.

    The Work was one of the very first self-development tools recommended to me way back when … and I liked it … it just didn’t work for me. I did all the inquiry on the situation I was in at the time, and while I could see “intellectually” how the beliefs might not be true, they still “felt” true and didn’t solve any of my problems at that time.

    It was not until I found more powerful tools like tapping and ACIM that things started to change for me.

    That is not me dismissing the Work – I now find it helpful to do turnarounds when combined with other tools. It’s just that for many people, and I was like this, the beliefs are so “cemented” into the subconscious mind with emotions that just doing inquiry is not enough to experience any real transformation …

    What I have found to be very, very powerful for me is tapping combined with A Course in Miracles lessons. The early lessons in the workbook are all designed for “re-training” the mind to let go of negative beliefs and open the door to more empowering beliefs.

    So what I did last night with some thoughts that were creating angst in me was apply ACIM early lessons to them, such as –

    “this thought does not mean anything”
    “I have invented the world I see”
    “I have given everything I see all the meaning that it has for me”
    “nothing I see means anything”
    “I can escape from the world I see by giving up attack thoughts”
    “in this situation [that’s making me miserable], I am entitled to miracles”
    “let miracles replace all grievances”

    and so forth, especially repeating over and over again … “these thoughts do not mean anything … I have given everything I see all the meaning that it has for me” …

    Just like when my cat was in the hospital, “these test results do not mean anything … this diagnosis does not mean anything … this medical literature gloom and doom does not mean anything …”

    I think this often when I see on here references to all these “theories” about “how men are” or about “victims” and “perpetrators” and so forth … these thoughts do not feel good … “I have invented the world I see, nothing I see means anything … truth will correct all errors in my mind … above all else, I am determined to see things differently …”

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:11am

  483. 483: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    and after I did that, I felt good … I felt glowing … I felt free

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:13am

  484. 484: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    LL and Syreena- I feel troubled reading your comments. It feels very dark. Open wound seeping pus everywhere. I feel sad. There is much we don’t know about the situation as Lisa had stated. She did state she is with a therapist and that feels comforting to know she has guidance in real life. Being a Siren who has experienced abuse, physical and emotional, and have had help through a group of the most fantastic group of women ever assembled by G0D and the universe or whoever you want to credit it to……………………… Lisa’s journey is her own as is yours. She is calling the shots, and is the boss of her life. If she wants or you want to FEEL anger at the abusers, write about it, let it out here in a riff, a stream of consicousness, whatever. I don’t like the finger pointing and judgement. No one condones that kind of treatment. The feeling that comes over me when reading your responses is this isn’t a safe place with such judgements being flung around. i feel angery and under that, sadness that your healing is lashing out. What do you want?

    take it back to you sseahorse. I want safety and no judgements. Freedom for my thoughts and…… i don’t know what else right now. I feel all triggered and sad

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:19am

  485. 485: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel no sisterhood and it feels sad and I’m crying. I love on it I’ll and offer the same into the big wide open.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:21am

  486. 486: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    I was in the middle of typing a big long thing…but I feel the same as Seahorse.
    I feel triggered and attacked–repeatedly–and it feels like attacking something that is already dead.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:25am

  487. 487: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    well I felt attacked here too but I’m not going to be silenced. I’m trying to help another woman, validate her experience, because I’ve been there. The worst thing to do in a situation like this (whether or not this man was “abusive” or just “controlling”) is to invalidate her experience. It is CRAZY making so please stop making excuses for this kind of behavior. She didn’t feel good about it, that’s the point.

    Just skip over my posts if they bother you so much but if I feel like I have something valuable to contribute, or just express myself, then I will.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:36am

  488. 488: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    my ex did a very good job of that btw (controlling what I said and didn’t say..I don’t need the same **** here thank you very much!)

    GRRR feeling angry!!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:38am

  489. 489: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I hear fear about boundaries … like why I was calling that guy “creepy guy” … I wanted to push him away with judgments because I was not feeling strong enough in my own boundaries … after I gave him the speech, I started to feel safer and not needing to judge him as this or that … I started to see that it’s very simple … I am not going to have men in my life who take my time and energy and do not give to me financially or in substantial tangible ways … I don’t need to judge him to have good boundaries about that …

    I can say “I don’t like hands on throat – that doesn’t work for me, that doesn’t feel good” and I can make a strong decision in myself that this is not going to be in my life, without making him wrong …

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:42am

  490. 490: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    You just did it again

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:47am

  491. 491: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    and that isn’t attacking. Pointing it out. I feel juvenile. I don’t know how to put it into words why I feel this is so feeling wrong, but i don’t like it. I don’t have anything.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:49am

  492. 492: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    The experience I’m having with you is that of feeling manipulated and controlled. I’m not allowed to have my own feelings and thoughts and questions because they make you fell unsafe and angry.

    I’m feeling how angry you are and feeling how much you want to control the discussion of physical and mental abuse. It feels scary, threatening.

    I’m wondering if it feels safer to be angry at us than to be angry with your ex?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:50am

  493. 493: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Why does it have to be directed at somebody? why does it have to be somebody’s fault? Own it and love it and let the poison out. i have no idea……. Why am i triggered. Maybe for the same reason LL is but different?????? I don’t know……………

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:52am

  494. 494: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    … or angry with yourself cuz maybe you didn’t feel powerful enough to set good boundaries with him … usually all my anger comes back to anger with myself … I’m still letting go anger with myself that I let that guy into my life as much as I did when he was not contributing financially and was “all talk” …

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:55am

  495. 495: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Control………………………… only me and what is inside me. Love on it love on it love on it and I am hoping the water settles to seeeeee…………

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:57am

  496. 496: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    And BREATHING low and deep and waiting for the water to settle. LL many big love and hugs. Peace sister and let’s breathe together. Here’s my hand and let’s breathe……………….

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:59am

  497. 497: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I felt weak and vulnerable and exposed when my cat got sick, and I let two relationships get way too “personal” because these people were “helping” me … which led to boundary issues that really did not feel good … I regret both of them, and definitely still need to release anger with myself for letting this happen in a moment of “weakness” …

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:59am

  498. 498: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I’m triggered because I cannot stand feeling controlled.
    I’m probably also triggered because I had an extremely emotionally abusive relationship when I was 22 and it damaged me. It took me years to get over. And, I’m realizing I got over it, but I’ve never healed from it (this is almost 25 years ago).

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:03am

  499. 499: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Yes I am angry and that’s ok with me. its just the way I feel. Since I started living in this small town, I had a stalker and I had a very controlling boyfriend. And neither of those experiences were validated (the stalker thing was mostly trivialized and even laughed at and the guy had a criminal record of physically abusive behavior as long as his arm. I looked it up. Its easier than you think, call the county court and they will give you the info based on name/city). It was incredible to me the reaction that I got from other people especially women. I do feel really strongly about this and don’t want any other woman to go through something like that because it SUCKED. I never, ever want to go through that again…its like you are abused twice, once by the actual abuser and then again by others who don’t take it seriously…its awful!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:04am

  500. 500: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    labels feel bad. labels feel powerless. labels put me in the position of “playing victim” to the world I see.

    I am not the victim of the world I see. I have invented the world I see. nothing I see is really there at all.

    above all else, I am determined to see things differently.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:14am

  501. 501: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Yes, I’m getting the F outta here, tomorrow in fact!!! :)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:18am

  502. 502: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    You are heard and understood. I myself was married for twenty years in a horrible situation and had help from many different lovely beautiful women once I asked for it. learned a lot and am finding peace and letting go. I know the sirens here do not condone any of that. I know they are helping by the questions they ask and Lisa has to find her answers because as much as we can say how bad it is, it will only get better when she finds the answers herself……………. that’s only my take on it though…………. It’s the feeling I get. i am reminded of my therapist telling me that she can’t give me answers. She can help me find answers so I own it. And then never have it happen again. We are lovely, each and every one of us. Finding our way and learning what works and what feels better. This feels better:) Thank you

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:22am

  503. 503: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    my comment is in mod………….:) It’s lovely and can’t wait to see it:) Big hugs LL! Let’s jump up on our horses and go for a ride, shall we???? Tally ho!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:32am

  504. 504: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    LL- Happy moving day and please remember to lift with your knees;)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:37am

  505. 505: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    I haven’t had time to catch up or do much of anything at all but I did want to say Seahorse, I love this comment: my comment is in mod………….:) It’s lovely and can’t wait to see it:)

    I’ve felt that exact same way before too! (unfortunately…twice it has never left moderation…lol)

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:43am

  506. 506: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    hahaha!!! Thanks, seahorse!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  507. 507: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    hehehhehhehe…………… I do hope it comes out though! I choose to believe even if it doesn’t come out, that the intention is still sent out to LL and the lovely sirens here and where ever we all are. What the intention you ask??????

    LOVE LOVE LOVE…………… always love and then some love on top of that:) For you for me for us all everywhere. And that feels best of all:)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  508. 508: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I feel very much in agreement with you, Seahorse 483.

    To me, this feels like a profoundly safe place, and I did not detect anything which felt like glossing over or minimizing anything abusive whatsoever. I think sirens here were trying to learn about the situation and see it from different angles, and other possibilities, which is a very far cry from condoning abuse. I experience the sirens here as very wise and loving and so it also saddens me, as it did you.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:50am

  509. 509: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    my response to LL went into mod too … and I don’t see any words that would have triggered the “mod” thing … haha … :)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:14pm

  510. 510: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    me too. apparently we are in a “time out”.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:30pm

  511. 511: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    It felt like mininizing, glossing over, dismissing, ignorng Lisa’s reality and real like assault and abuse to me.

    That is my reality.

    I can accept others do not see it that way.
    I do not want to be scilenced or my voice shut down for expressing how it felt.

    I hear you don’t feel safe with judgements on a virtual blog.

    Just as I heard how Lisa felt scared when she had hands put around her throat in a real life situation where she was abused and assaulted in a real life situation.

    What I didn’t hear was Lisas experience and abuuse being validated and heard by most sirens and that felt very bad to me

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:32pm

  512. 512: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    The sisterhood I want is where women hear and support women who have been assaulted and abused. Like LL did and FW did.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:36pm

  513. 513: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    I’m timing myself out of this topic. I’ve made my point and that’s all I really wanted to do. I’m moving on with my life and towards healthier relationships…literally. If my comments helped anyone here take a stand against abuse of any kind, then I’m happy about that. I wish someone here (or anywhere) had given me a similar heads-up prior to meeting Mr. Stalker and Mr. Controller.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:36pm

  514. 514: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for your support Elsie!!! I appreciate that :)

    ((((((HUG)))))) right back to you Indigo!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:37pm

  515. 515: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi sirens! I am Hoping life slows down a bit nod I can be her more. Deck and pool are still going up, yard still torn up… But the end is in site. I feel pretty frazzled, which us good to see about myself, and my impatience is definitely an issue I need to work on. No romantic news to share, Mr. Conversation came over the other night to help with something. He has a lot of stuff going on, not as pleasant to be around him as it used to be. I just don’t have the patience right now to listen to complaining and negativity. He still looks awesome though, and was very sweet of him to come help.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  516. 516: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    It felt good to read you post 458 Domonique

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  517. 517: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:42pm

  518. 518: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I hear you LL and feel pleased you are moving to a better place.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:42pm

  519. 519: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Syreena!!!! :)

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 12:46pm

  520. 520: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Liquid Light

    OMG thanks to much for that! My heart is full, you have no idea how much that felt to me to read your post…

    I haven’t read the other posts b/c well for obvious reasons… and b/c really I thought support was the main reason here not to diminish anyone’s experience b/c everyone will experience anything differently and I thought that, that was the idea to honor where someone was and their feelings/experience. Everything is projection and perception…

    I’m sorry you had experienced the stalker guy and the abuser… I too have had those experiences… I’m also sorry that you experienced the judgements also… {{{Hugs}}}

    but now.. I’m really clear! and though my heart still hurts.. I feel so much relief.. as the clarity keeps coming… and coming each day… I get more understanding of it all…

    I think I’ll take your que and completely bow out as well… I welcome your off blog connection, if you feel so inclined…

    again! I can’t show my gratitude enough that you said those things… <3

    Thanks Turquoise {{hugs}} back! <3

    Much love!


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 1:54pm

  521. 521: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    OMG! Thanks to you too! that felt so wonderful to read your post… I feel very loved… and validated… my heart is full! How amazing!

    Again, my gratitude to you!

    I’ve learned that minimizing anyone’s experience only reflects back a the person minimizing it and that for whatever reason they have inside of them they need to to keep their story in tact.

    and @LL yes you are correct society has been brainwashed to minimize abuse that is why the abuser gets away with it… they(the abuser) know that the mass majority are that way…and people that do minimize it also have whatever triggers going on for them in regards to it..
    I’m sorry that happened to you!

    Much love! {{hugs}}}

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 2:00pm

  522. 522: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’ve had that same anger come up… recently in fact for letting things happen in weakness thanks for sharing…


    @Indigo… that is always a possibility and since there is no body language… it’s all in perception…

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 2:04pm

  523. 523: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for the hugs and your words, Lisa, I really appreciate it! Yes, feeling validated and heard is so important!!! Thank you!!!!!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 2:27pm

  524. 524: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m confused now , maybe I’m wrong but I feel as though people are upset with me and I insist that what I said www taken wrong to LL. I basically always trying to say that it felt loke the vibe from them was a continuos angry vibe … And Lisa is the one that is upset . I in no way advocate any violence toward women or any person for that matter and i just want to say that it got escalated others for a minute. I’m new here and I am attempting to improve myself and things that keep me on a righteous path. I am a person that is very compassionate and loving so I deeply apologize if I was taken out of context. Side note. Lisa I have respect for you and if you had went through what they are saying last week with someone in sorry u are troubled. I’m here if you need someone

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 2:30pm

  525. 525: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa… Hi, was hoping you would elaborate on what u meant when yoi said “I haven’t read the other post for obvious reasons” thank you

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 2:57pm

  526. 526: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Also I could not respond before now all of my comments are in mod..

    On a lighter note… I’m proud I didn’t get upset then when I felt I was being ambushed. I’m learning that it all about being able to not take things to heart and stay in tune with my feelings as well. Is anyone still here?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:02pm

  527. 527: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    yea a few times in my life I also ended up in relationships that I never would be in again because the man showed up when I wasn’t feeling very good about myself … and I “settled” for much less than I really wanted … not doing that again

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:22pm

  528. 528: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I wouldn’t say that I don’t feel “safe” with the judgments or labels … it just doesn’t feel like they are helping much … it seems like a way of not getting into the deeper feelings and taking full responsibility for our lives and what we are creating … I know that labels have not helped me much and that ultimately I’ve got to stop saying “creepy guy” and get deeper with myself so I don’t repeat the experience and have better boundaries next time …

    That said, if a Siren wants to use labels and judgments … well, she can do that, and I can express my feelings about hearing it … I don’t have a need to “silence” the voices … though when someone directed his judgments AT me on email the other day, I did move away from it, take a time out, and then set some boundaries with him …

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:54pm

  529. 529: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t feel seen or heard when people are directing their labels or judgments at me and it’s not something I want in my life. In his case, it was definitely a way to not take responsibility for the situation, and it’s not something I’m going to continue to have in my life.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 3:56pm

  530. 530: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, from what Lisa originally wrote, he did not choke her. She said he put his hand on her neck. That in itself is NOT abuse.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 4:09pm

  531. 531: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    Today was a Total siren day for me. I feel myself feeling and playing in my “meadow.” But it hasn’t been all pollie positive lately. I feel the darker side of me, and it’s okay now. I’m not going to deny it or push it aside or feel ashamed. I’m going to embrace her . . . heck, I’m going to give her a nick name . . . BADKITTY! Here is an entertaining example of the mixture of feelings (soup) that I’m experiencing:

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 4:31pm

  532. 532: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Melanie I disagree and so do the police and the law if a man puts his hands around any womans throat unless it is consensual it is a crime.

    This was not consensual and she felt scared. Therefore a crime was committed.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 4:50pm

  533. 533: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Mealnie it feels totally irrelevant if you or other women are ok with this and find it erotic.
    Lisa was not ok with it, did not consent and felt scared.

    It is lisas experience not yours, mine or any other womans and what matters in this case.

    It was up to him to get consent for something like that, before the event.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:07pm

  534. 534: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:10pm

  535. 535: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:11pm

  536. 536: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    I’m in moderation… twice. 😥


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:13pm

  537. 537: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, I hear that you are troubled by this. I too am troubled by the responses that are villainizing this man. I disagree with your comments about the police and the law and will add that false accusations and libel are against the law. You are unhappy about my comments, I am unhappy about yours. It is what it is.

    As I said before, I empathize with the fact that Lisa felt frightened. Honoring our feelings and setting our boundaries is the way to go.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:16pm

  538. 538: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Melanie if Lisa wanted to she could have this man charged. I am not concerned in the slightest about libel. No name has been mentioned.

    And Lisa would not be charged with libel. Neither would I What nonesense.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:19pm

  539. 539: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Correction. Arrested not charged.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:20pm

  540. 540: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I guess I did call my ex’s actions “fraud” which is similar. He got me to invest in him by presenting himself and the situation a certain way, and then the facts did not turn out to be true. Well, yes, that’s “fraud.”

    And still, if I don’t want to experience something like that ever again – and I don’t – I still need to take responsibility for my role in that situation. What he did was not okay, and yet at the same time I am not powerless with men. I can be more in touch with my feelings, more self-loving, and set boundaries so that it never happens again.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:23pm

  541. 541: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Are you accusing me or Lisa of false accusations here?

    Lisa has stated that a man put his hand around her throat without consent.

    I am stating that is assault.

    Which one of those statements do you class as libel and a false accusation?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:23pm

  542. 542: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    What still keeps bothering me is that I read Lisa’s posts for months– at least 6-7 months- and never read anything about her feeling afraid of or abused by “M”. And she posted a lot. I wish I understood, because I responded to a lot of her posts. And if I would have had any idea that he was abusive I would have contributed much differently. I certainly would not have encouraged her to continue working on their relationship!


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:26pm

  543. 543: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, I am not accusing anyone of anything.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:28pm

  544. 544: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I can make choices and take my power back. I can speak up immediately if a man does something in bed that feels uncomfortable.

    I can say “no” to sex or even any emotional or other investment until men invest a LOT of time, money, and everything else so that the chances of something like that ever happening again are very, very low.

    I feel happy to know that I don’t have to be a victim. I feel safer in the world knowing that I am a powerful and conscious co-creator who does not have to put up with stuff that feels bad.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:28pm

  545. 545: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    I just remembered– Rori said she has a spam filter on the blog and its filtering out legitimate posts …. So that is what is going on. And she also mentioned that she hasn’t been available to moderate the posts recently.


    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:30pm

  546. 546: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    I love that!

    “You’re overpaid! Now get out of here!”

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:35pm

  547. 547: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    God bless you all, you are in my prayers.
    .. I want to thank you for loving me in a way I never experienced. You made me feel like the most important person in the world and I love you for that. I felt deeper for you than I have ever for anyone. I am sad and hurt that it ended I am still going to improve me and my outlook on life. Thank you also for teaching me reserve and patience and humility. Please try to listen to that soft voice that ask you to trust and love.. U are so beautiful when you love. I will always cherrish this warmth and love u gave me and will never forget my sweet baby. Love always.. …. X mowf

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 5:43pm

  548. 548: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I also felt frustrated when other people would not acknowledge that what he did was not okay – so I can relate to that piece of it. It doesn’t mean that staying in judgment is helpful for me. It means that we can acknowledge that we don’t want to live in a world where a man can get sex from a woman under false pretenses … I don’t want to live in that world.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:03pm

  549. 549: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t want to live in a world where a man can set expectations that he doesn’t keep, and is not careful about the impact he is going to have on another person due to these false representations. And they were factually false.

    So yes I do feel resonance with saying, I would like to live in a world where men are careful to have “rough” sexual contact only with truly consenting partners.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 6:05pm

  550. 550: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    whi is supposed to admit what? im lost

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 7:47pm

  551. 551: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I would like to live in a world where men and women are careful to have *any* kind of sexual contact only with truly consenting partners.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 8:41pm

  552. 552: stormy greenNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori,
    Just wanted your advice on my situation to understand why I feel the way I do….I met a guy 14 yrs ago we at that time went our own ways got married g ad kids then got divorced and found each other we bagan dating only to turn out rushing things within 2 mo he put a promise ring on my finger things were going great were able to talk bout anyrhing, able to work thru our problems, then he wants me and my kids to move in with him n his son. Which at first was great then his son began tellng lies about me to his mom which then started a fight. He gets upset if I talk to one of ny kuds’ dad, or if I take longer to do something than he does. We’ve been together 5 mo and in that time he has broke up with me. At leadt 3 times first times was do to me not calling to let him knowas taking longer than expected, second was me slamming a bottle on coubter, 3rd time was when he and my 17 yo old son had a physical confrontation and I removed kuds but when his son lied bout me i was expected to get over it. Then this last time was over me taking to long to take care of my dog wgen shoukda been spending time with him.he blocked me from contact but is the one to come back in 3 days with he loves me and misses me and I’m confused

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:18pm

  553. 553: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    I feel very resonant with your post, 543.

    If there is one thing I have learned which has added immeasurably to my life, it’s that I am powerful. I have power over many, many things about my life and happiness, and coming into that power feels amazing.

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:49pm

  554. 554: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    I always seem to feel very resonant with your posts, and I love the way you see things.

    I have had a knife pulled on me and not felt abused – and I know this statement might feel triggering to some people. Yet actually, it was an empowering experience for me. To be in the presence of apparent danger, and I actually felt safe.

    Anyway, I think I’m going to go back to posting about my relationship!

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 10:55pm

  555. 555: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena- i feel scared of you. i feel like my ex husband is yelling at me again for being wrong. i feel sad. I didn’t do anything wrong. I am doing what feels right for me. I feel ………………………………… Why would you think what I went through is ……………… i don’t know…………… less? … no. that is not it……. I feel …..angry

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:10pm

  556. 556: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    What is what I want to say?………………………….. I want to say i feel scared because I want to hide when you sound like him. Syreena, you sound like him, ANGRY .I feel Scared!!! scared……… scared…………..

    I came out of hiding because of the softness. The voices I followed were kind and offered respite…………….. a rest of what I was feeling. The pain of being told I was ugly, the pain i was told i was wrong, of my face getting hit,……… I was a a bad decorator….. I didn’t know how to do this or that…. the list goes on an on………. I was stupid……… that is what i hear when you say what you are saying. I am stupid and bad and wrong. The abuse continues…………………………the woman I am came out of hiding because of soft kind words. It is a gentleness that brought me out. A compassion to my diginity that was preserved………………… Thank you Rori for Modern Siren. ………………… It was gentle words and a voice that said it was okay to be me, come and I will show how to love yourself, you are beautiful just the way you are and this is what to say to respect yourself and the ‘right’ man………….. it feels better this way.Today hurt, that voice again telling me you are wrong you are bad seahorse. It was harsh ………………. and it felt like embarrassing LOUD voices that I went back into being quiet and not making problems. I don’t know where this takes you Syreena but I’ll tell you this………… your voice is appreciated and please remember that not all of us go with your theory. Some of us want quiet dignity and we find respect that way. We want to be open and with open arms again. We want to love and we will know that love doesn’t hurt…………… we know that it takes OURSELVES to make it work. WE KNOW…………….. Please be gentle with us. We know pain and angry already. We need love and acceptance, not angry anymore……………………. please. I ask you please ……….. no more angry, please?

    How do we find that place where it is all okay again?

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:43pm

  557. 557: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    F it…….. just f it

    Thursday, 25 July 2013 @ 11:48pm

  558. 558: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Noting i write will make a difference. I feel better for it anyway. breathing………………………. low…………….big yawn and peace to all. Thank you

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:00am

  559. 559: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    I realized something…………. I didn’t want a big mess beacause it would of dragged the children into it and it would of made the ‘news’………………. I wanted it quiet……………. for me too……………. No noise. I wanted to be out, No News……………….. just quiet…….shhhhhhh shhhhh shhhh. and I am free with no fuss

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:13am

  560. 560: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    That discussion feels very heated and high-energy – I am side-stepping…

    I felt really triggered last night and it ended in a kind of argument. I felt very disconnected from CD1 as he seemed not to want any physical connection and I was feeling the need for physical connection. I wonder if if I receive regular physical connection it helps me to deny the lack of ‘relationship’ between us that I truly desire with a man. I felt rebuffed and i felt withdrawn. Then I felt rage.

    And I don’t understand my feelings so I wasn’t able to talk about them they just were.

    And he turned my feelings into being about something they weren’t so my head felt scrambled and I was blinking not knowing anymore what I was upset about or even if I had a ‘right to be upset. This feels familiar. I often feel like the carpet has been pulled out from under my feet and I no longer know how to explain myself.

    I felt very very angry. I also felt very tearful. I feel tired with the hard work. I feel tired with the ‘trying so hard to get’. I felt stung.

    I couldn’t sleep. And I don’t know what to feel today. I feel numb. Have things to do. Going to do them. Hopefully all will become clear.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:47am

  561. 561: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I agree Erika. And hear what you are saying

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:55am

  562. 562: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Seahorse I have obviously triggered you.

    I feel clueless to what theory you are talking about.

    I wish you well with your tigger and process.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:02am

  563. 563: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel confused why you are hearing words I have not said to you Seahorse.

    Those are your words not mine.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:12am

  564. 564: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena I encourage you once in a while to step back, try putting yourself in the other persons shoe and maybe try to experience how they hear you. How they experience you. You might be right yes. Righteous indignation however is not something that build relationships. Sometimes giving up the right to be right is what creates happiness. Maybe trying to see things from Seahorse’s point of view might diffuse the confusion. Might help you to appreciate the differences.

    My experience of your interactions has been that you tend to keep barreling forward regardless of impact on the people around you. I remember some time ago you were talking about being attacked??? by people on another forum. I admit that your interactions have been softer and more accommodating recently. This one that Seahorse refers to felt angry to me. Felt like I am going say what I want to say regardless of whether you want to hear it or not. It is like a “I don’t care angry” vibe that it carries. People want to hear your anger without feeling attacked. When they feel attacked they can’t hear you. I will be bold and suggest that this seems to be a blindspot that keeps showing up when you believe that you are right.

    At least that is what I have noticed. Sometimes stating your right point once and allowing the other person to sit with it is helpful for them to be open to accepting your point. As CCarter says force vs power. Use the energy that is coming towards you to your advantage, even when you are not in agreement.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:55am

  565. 565: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena maybe try putting on the other person’s shoe and seeing where they are coming from might help to diffuse the confusion. People want to hear your anger without feeling attacked. Righteous indignation does not build relationships. As CCarter says – force vs power. Use what is coming at you to your advantage, though you might not agree. I will be bold to say that one thing I have noticed in your interactions is the energy of righteous indignation when you believe you are right and have taken a stance. It comes across as a blindspot where you dig your heels in and refuse to move. Sometimes saying something once and leaving people to ponder on it helps them to change their viewpoint. Everyone has different worldviews based on life experiences. Appreciate the differences and making space for that is what helps people to feel safe. Showing flexibility and allowing oneself to be influenced by another shows people that you are not stuck in your ways. Shows you trust yourself to bend and not break. As Randy Bennett puts it “have core plasticity. Bend bit not break. Show teamspirit. By changing HOW you say things you’ll instantly remove any defensive feelings. View problems as outside *them* and rally around each other. Unite against the common enemy”. Maybe people here are agreeing with you just that they see it in a different light. Can you try to see their point of view? As CCarter says “take time to develop understanding”.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:10am

  566. 566: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I wish you well with your tigger and process”

    The energy around this I experience as a thinly veiled insult and dismissive.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:13am

  567. 567: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    I feel like I do not need a timeframe anymore. Finally. It feels so good to let things go. It feels good to not need him anymore. No him, no outcome, nothing really. Nothing feels more exciting than ever, not so scary anymore. I feel the urgency is fading away. I feel like smiling to handsome men that pass by on the street finally. I do not feel guilty or stupid about it anymore. I feel awesome after 70days of workout and stopping and leaning back and new haircut and new clothes :) And I haven’t cried for 70 days haha

    I feel like i crossed one of my boundaries too many in my past toxic life, and when you reach the bottom, there is only one way, and it is a way up :) I just wonder why things have to go extreme before I discover myself anew and learn. Is it just the way I am, or am I so stubborn for not changing. Or is it just my perception of things that makes them extreme, while they really are not. That part still feels a bit confusing.

    @Erika Awakening @Indigo thank you for reminding me that :) I do have power too and it is all right to be powerful <3 My Ice queen Stranger is that, she is very, very powerful :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:24am

  568. 568: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    To speak up immediatly is sometimes going to only be when the violation is occuring. So sadly it is too late sometimes as the abuse and violation have already happened.

    What makes me feel sad is when I hear some members of society blaming real life victims.
    When I hear of drunk girls getting raped or sexually assaulted and others saying she should have fought him off or said no etc etc.
    Or if a woman wears short skirts, She shouldn’t dress like that.
    If a woman gets hit, what did you do to make him hit you.
    The list could go on and on.
    Not believing the victim.. That is what makes me feel upset. Denying their violation and experience. Victim blaming mentality. That is what rapists and abusers do.
    Yes victims can get help and become survivors.
    But to deny they have been a victim or blame them makes me feel sick to the core.

    Just because many couples may be happy with a hand around their throats and find it erotic it doesn’t mean that Lisa should and that she hasn’t been violated. She wasn’t even considered and asked.
    Just as in the same way that many couples enjoy anal sex and find it erotic.
    It doesn’t mean that a woman who doesn’t want this and doesn’t find it erotic hasn’t been violated. Or had handcuffs put on her etc etc.

    And in Lisas case she was violated. How do I know this because she said she wasn’t asked, didn’t like it, want it and was sacred.
    So I don’t feel the need for you to agree with me
    Melanie that Lisa was assaulted. I hear that you disagree and accept that
    The only person who knows how it felt is Lisa. And I wanted Lisa to know I heard her and believed her like LL did and FW who also said about

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:27am

  569. 569: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Randy Bennett talks about having core plasticity. When you trust yourself because you are strong on the inside you can bend but not break. This shows people also that you are not stuck in your ways and can be influence. People’s experiences are different so their worldviews will be different. Appreciating the differences minimizes the constant state of disagreeing.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:29am

  570. 570: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel open to looking at what you have written FW. ponder.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:31am

  571. 571: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Our strengths can be our greatest weakness

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:35am

  572. 572: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    563 FW I really do wish seahorse well as it is her who has to process the trigger not me. No disguise on my part. That is my truth I wish her well and hope after processing she gets to a better place
    I am not her. So i am not able to process for her.
    If that comes across as dismissive to you then that is how it comes across.
    Not a lot I am able to do about that.
    I suppose in a way I am being dismissive in the way that I am giving her stuff back to her. I am the trigger. Although what feels odd to me is some of the words I used didn’t n trigger. My words were substituted and then those words were the real trigger.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:39am

  573. 573: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Maybe the intention was not set so the vibe did not come across in the words. Setting an intention during a pause can do wonders for emotional redirection and help us with our vibe and our words.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:43am

  574. 574: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman,

    I love what you have written about uniting people in a team and making room for other viewpoints, about allowing yourself to be influenced by others and making space for other viewpoints, about melting defensiveness.


    I employ this in my management style and it has a beautiful effect on my staff and creates a very authentic, safe-feeling team. It causes people to want to be there for each other and have each other’s back. I love it.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:44am

  575. 575: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:51am

  576. 576: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Everyone may well have different views. I feel able to accept and agree to disagree with some of these different views.
    Some of these different views are not always valid though as in some cases they are based on a fallacy. And although I feel able to agree to disagree I don’t want to take them seriously as they are based on fallacy.
    If that means some people don’t want relationships with me or don’t like me, so be it.
    Feels best to just be me. And then I will have real relationships and be true to myself.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:55am

  577. 577: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    No man is an island. The more people we have relationships with the bigger our circle of influence and impact on the world is. It is okay to state what we have to say once and let people hear us rather than going on and on debating and trying to convince. It diminishes our power. Everybody wants to be in relationships and to feel connected. It is hardwired in us.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:02am

  578. 578: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    We’ve just got to pay attention to what works in relationships and build our relationship skills

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:04am

  579. 579: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Regardless of truth or fallacy they are valid to the people who have these views.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:23am

  580. 580: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I hope good morning everybody. Hope you have a good day.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:31am

  581. 581: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    True FW I understand they are valid to them and can accept that.
    What I don’t want to do is be quiet though and not point out the fallacy if I feel strongly about it.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:36am

  582. 582: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Ty Miranda, you too.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:38am

  583. 583: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, just like you said to seahorse, I feel confused that you are hearing words I have not said. I don’t want to be misrepresented that way. That feels bad. I am not going to argue with you and I hope you stop misrepresenting my viewpoint.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 5:41am

  584. 584: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Good morning, Miranda. I hope you have a good day too!

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 5:48am

  585. 585: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    OMG! Based on all the talk here the last couple of days, I find it an absolute miracle that this is my lesson for living my yoga today. I don’t even know if *I* would believe me on this one so anyone can look up the book on Amazon and search inside maybe?? The book is called “A Year of Living Your Yoga Daily Practices to Shape Your Life” Judith Hanson Lasater, Ph.D., P.T.

    The lesson for July 26:

    Juding me, positively or negatively, puts me in a box.

    Living Your Yoga: Labeling me as bad or beautiful is a judgment that makes it harder for me to change in your eyes. Today, practice your yoga by telling others what they did or said that enriched your life instead of how you have defined them.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:33am

  586. 586: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena I do hear you. I also want to ask if you can look at how you could possibly come across as better than or superior to someone if you set in your mind that what they are saying is fallacy? It is innocuous but it suggests that the person is a fool and don’t know what they are talking about if we take the role of clearing up their fallacy. Saying the word fallacy to someone kinda diminishes their worth and doesn’t leave someone feeling good about themselves.

    I am writing to you but I am talking to myself also. How can I speak up about something that I feel strongly about and at the same time create a safe space for the other person to continue interacting with me? What words can I use and how can I say what I want to so they can hear me? They have to be able to hear me otherwise my speaking will be pointless. They can to still feel respected even when there is difference of opinion.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:51am

  587. 587: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Interesting….so, if *I* do something that triggers you, without your consent, that is all you and has nothing to do with me.
    But if you do something that triggers ME, I have been perpetrated against.

    I used to go round and round with T about this.
    Any expression of anger, dissatisfaction, calling him out on his stuff, was labeled “abuse” and I was “abusive”

    Yet when I felt abused, in his experience, he was just “being miserable” (in his words), and he had no idea what I was talking about.

    To this day, he cannot and will not see his behavior as abusive. To see any part of himself as “perpetrator” is so loathesome, so far outside of his image of himself, that he will not own it.

    On the other hand, I could look at it like this…
    Nothing I did was ever abusive. I was just being miserable. “Abuse” was just his story, his perception, his judgment and has nothing to do with me. Maybe “perpetrator” and “victim” are stories that I don’t need anymore.
    The thought of it shakes me to my very core and stirs fear in my belly.
    I feel so much fear – If I let this go, how will I know not to end up in an abusive situation again?.
    How will I make sure I never put myself in a position to feel that pain again?

    Hmm…interesting to notice this.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:51am

  588. 588: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “practice your yoga by telling others what they did or said that enriched your life”

    Wise words to live by.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:53am

  589. 589: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes – 582
    Perfect, thank you!
    I was tapping in front of a mirror last night, asking, “why do I believe that I’m ugly? where did tha come from? ugly by whose standards? what standard am I using? who am I comparing myself to? where do I get my ideas of beauty? what is that? what does it mean?”

    Unraveling… :)

    Big hugs to you!

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:55am

  590. 590: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    and that really is the sticky wicket of forgiveness…
    If I let myself off the hook, really really let myself off the hook, then the whole worlds gets off the hook, too.

    and that feels scary.
    I feel nauseous and vomity thinking about this.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:00am

  591. 591: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Reading over the thread and, interestingly enough weather someone thinks that through reversal of feelings or just being honest about someone’s worth or unworth or their integrity or lack thereof, what I realize, and feel good to say is that the only thing that matters in the broad spectrum is that I am true to myself in believing,and feeling confident knowing is that I AM wonderful and that I AM worthy. Many times in trying to be reserved and uncommunicative of someone elses “quirks” or “personality flaws” and the presence of ,what seems may be red flags of there own” Such as relating forthrightly before the 1st date that they are very in touch with their sexual self and all the juicy dirty talk to accompany it. Also having a box full of 58 condoms , or sex toys of several varieties, or lesbian porn, or unable to be forth coming and honest about feelings for someone , and feeling content to lead a person on with “over the top” remarks and actions of total love for their partner, and reversing blame when they feel embarrassed when found out about having other dates and relationships, and falsehoods told to other people , and divulging personal (lots untruthful) information and of private details of their relationship on a daily basis of someone that is “exclusively” theirs in a public sector, also snide jokes that are blatantly obvious and cruel.. These are not what strike me as characteristics of someone that tried to make a relationship work. No one is perfect by no means but in my relationship until it came down to grasping and trying to hold on to the wind of something that was not there, i never even said a negative thing because it’s mean, dishonest and not resembling of the character of what someone that claims notoriety and truth be told I think I would have been so in love at this point…. From personal experience I am certain. That it is very stressful and sometimes damaging to have a relayltionship where one is there ready to learn and adjust and pretty much anything for them and the other just makes a show of being that way…..Not speaking of anyone directly or indirectly btw :-/
    People can only take so much i feel. And maybe that’s why drama lives on. I just don’t understand why when people break up that there can’t be ( in some cases ) anyway, a sit down truthful parting where you say.. I liked you and felt love for you and im just diffrent about how I feel or i met someone else ” maybe touch on positive memories & negative feelings. Have a laugh maybe a cry, but point being giving closure on a way that’s representory of a good character for the live you had or one believed one did. I think that when it’s just “poof” a fee calls and few text about the issues of the discourse prevalently residing in the diminished relationship, leaving the other sitting alone thinking, confused and potentially devastated for lack of a better word because they asteemed you higher, was conveyed more than a “well im done with you ” could anything at that moment feel much worse. People may have arguments or get angry however I feel we owe the other person more than that, we owe ourselves more than that. Sometimes people get Ted up with things, and at the same time I will try to consider the next person, I owe myself that. So this will be my last post and it is with a warm heart and a slight smile that I tip my hat and say ” I am forever me,loving me you”~.~
    ……………. GBDO…..

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:06am

  592. 592: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I feel there really is something to see in this for me…
    T has moved on, he’s not beating himself or anyone else up over anything from the past, he’s not busy trying to save the world or crusading…
    he’s really really living the dream.
    I mean, really, living the dream.
    Heck, he’s practically living MY dream.
    And he’s one of the most peaceful men, now, that I know. It’s not like he went on to continue to abuse,
    he is a powerful force for planetary peace, in both his private and public life.

    I feel a Very Sacred Belief (or cluster of beliefs) somewhere being questioned…something so much a part of my identity and the way I see the world…not exactly sure of the specifics…
    I feel wavery, unstable…reality is shifting a bit…

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:07am

  593. 593: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I was chatting to my mom about my situation with my boss last night, and saying what bothers me is that I want to know why.

    I want to know what the lesson is.

    “Forgive her”, my mom said. “I can guarantee you that is the lesson, and this won’t go away until you do.”

    Forgive her. Release her. It feels hard to do. So I feel pretty sure that this is my lesson.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:09am

  594. 594: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Melanie said that you don’t think a man putting his hand on a womans neck or throat without her consent when she doesn’t want it is assault.
    You quite clearly disagreed that is was assault.

    Lisa said she felt scared and did not give consent later said she felt it was abuse.

    So really do not Know where I have misrepented you.

    I don’t want to argue with you either and have agreed to disagree with you if putting your hands around anothers neck is assault without their consent. I disagree and believe your point being that beacuse a lot of men do this in the bedroom that it isn’t a crime when a man does this without the womans consent it is a crime and that is what happened here.

    So again agree to disagree, no arguement. You are entitled to think and believe what you like. I just do not agree.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:14am

  595. 595: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    In other news, things feel so easy with D. I’m not sure, but I am able to find the words, the words that feel right to me and that seem to feel right to him and communication has been easy and drama-free and pretty much no talking about the relationship, just spending time together.

    And it feels easy and gentle.

    The only thing that doesn’t feel as easy is trust, but I really feel as though this is my issue, not his. I sense that he would like me to reassure him in certain little ways, though he’d never ask for it, it is just something that I sense, and it feels good to my heart to do this.

    From my side, I feel a little tug. A little doubt. A little gremlin wanting to whisper something negative to me. And I know it’s a lie, but that little gremlin voice says to me, can you be so sure? This is just what happens when you spend a certain amount of time apart and you get back together.

    I want to choose trust. I want to TRUST him. I don’t want to mention any of this to him.

    Dominique, I think I’m going to go back and re-read your article on Choosing Trust.

    I am seeing him tonight, and I can’t wait after the week I’ve had. Sorry to get soppy here, but he is my haven, my safe place, my contentment and my smile.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:20am

  596. 596: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t want to control, I want to let go.

    Reminds me of a song that I love:

    “Don’t forget when you’re missing me so, love should never hold tight, but let go.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:22am

  597. 597: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    FW I hear you too.
    I don’t know how to do that.
    I do not feel able.
    In the future this may be different and I may have worked out a way how to do that.

    Well there is one way I feel might work to do that but it is very very long winded and makes me feel exhausted.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:23am

  598. 598: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “Interesting….so, if *I* do something that triggers you, without your consent, that is all you and has nothing to do with me.
    But if you do something that triggers ME, I have been perpetrated against.”

    I believe there would be gold here if I could put it in a learning context. I am struggling to wrap my mind around this because I believe I can learn something from it. BeLoved would you mind helping me by elaborating a little more? The example you gave is not quite clear to me.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:23am

  599. 599: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I sometimes wonder whether things are easy and good between D and me because of where he is on the “relationship timeline” now.

    The other day he talked longingly of both his brothers being married, and one of them just finding out that they are going to have a baby, and of wanting to spend his life with someone.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:29am

  600. 600: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Maybe working through it might ease the exhaustion for the next time the lesson comes up.

    Being committed to showing someone their fallacy is kinda committing to trying to fix the person.

    It kinda feels to me know that I am trying to do that to you.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:30am

  601. 601: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo as CCarter says stories are powerful to use to give subliminal messages.

    “The man in the story is you and the woman in the story is you.”

    D is showing you that he is in a good place. He resonates with the values of his family and dreaming of creating the type situation with you. The key is what you do/say/how you be that tips him over the edge. Show him that you are the girl for him and wife material.

    Give him the respect he needs.
    Show him that you will not hinder him on his journey through life but support him. How you will help him achieve what he is here on the planet to achieve.

    What is his favorite superhero? Maybe that is how he sees himself and is looking for his tonto (kemosabe).

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:38am

  602. 602: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo did you ask him where he sees both of you in a year or two years?

    Or what does he see for you two?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:41am

  603. 603: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Beloved I also am not getting the trigger of words without consent thing.

    The consent and abuse I have been talking about is to do with body autonomy in Lisas case. Two seperate issues.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:42am

  604. 604: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    FW 597.

    I feel amused.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:46am

  605. 605: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena – it is similar, though, when someone says “ouch ouch I’m hurting, I don’t like this” whether it’s words or physical touch, and the reaction is to say, “that has nothing to do with me”.

    FW – I don’t know if I can even let myself see it all the way through right now…
    very deep-seated twin needs to be “right” or “wrong”, someone has to be right, someone else has to be wrong…if I’m not right about it I must be wrong, or someone else needs to be wrong or bad so I can be good…stuff along those lines that is stimulating a lot of sensation in my throat
    eyes flittering and rolling back in my head.

    Information processing…feels like little tiny ghost feet scattering all through my body..
    hiding from the light
    the light burns!
    okay I want to put this on the back burner for now because I’m at work..
    something feels like it’s deconstructing in my soul.
    omg it feels lighter in my body

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:54am

  606. 606: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I think what BeLoved is talking about is the dynamic that is playing out on the blog- it is, ironically, polarizing into abusers and victims. All participants are just triggered, and the best thing for me when I’m triggered is to go into myself and find out why- instead of continuing to attempt to control what is happening externally. Trying to stop the pain by being right never works.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:55am

  607. 607: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Fw How can I respect another persons opinion if it is valid and based on a fallacy?

    I can and do respect their right to have whatever opinion they want and express it but I do not fee able to actually respect the actual opionion.

    If someone expresses feelings without opinion I feel ok with expressing feelings without opinion back.

    When someone expresses opinion I want to be allowed to give mine back.
    I want the right to reply. I don’t want to be shut down and only them be allowed to express their opinion but I am suppossed to only answer in feelings.
    That makes me feel awful, it makes me feel like they are allowed an opinion and I’m not.

    It doesn’t feel good to me to do just talk in feelings it makes me feel offbalance. I prefer to feel more alaigned and balanced in the centre. That is who I am. There is a theory that there are S brains E brains and B brains and I come out as a B brain. It is who I am

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:01am

  608. 608: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    * invalid not valid.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:03am

  609. 609: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:


    I disagree that we are all just triggered.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:05am

  610. 610: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I didn’t finish the thought I started, and don’t want to right now.

    Just acknowledging.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:06am

  611. 611: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    (((((Indigo)))))this sounds wonderful.

    I’m reminded of two comments that CW made this week that I noticed for what they were– in the past I would have managed to make them into something negative about me–but instead I saw they were really about his feelings of insecurity and worrying that I would leave and what he is hoping for in the future. It helped me recognize my power and influence in how our relationship moves forward.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:09am

  612. 612: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    From “Meditations from the Mat Daily Reflections on the Path of Yoga” by Rolf Gates and Katrina Kenison

    “At the core of intemperance in any form is the mistaken belief that we are not OK as we are. Convinced that we are imperfect, we carry real pain. The cause of our suffering, however, is not our imperfection but our mistaken belief in our imperfection. Acting under the erroneous assumption that we are imperfect, we reach outside ourselves to create balance, to end our suffering. Naturally this is unsuccessful, so we redouble our efforts and demand even more. All our effort, all our striving, merely worsens our situation and deepens our conviction that we are somehow flawed. Caught up in this cycle of chronic suffering and misguided attempts to relieve our pain, we spend our days out of balance and in conflict with ourselves.

    The solution is twofold. To begin with, we have to stop whatever it is we are doing that creates imbalance. The second step is to examine the beliefs that drive us to intemperance in the first place.

    When we summon the courage to step away from the downward spiral, we discover that there is power in nondoing. We realize that our fear, which grew out of a specific behavior had contaminated every aspect of our lives. As we walk away, we leave our fear behind as well. Suddenly we can begin to meet people’s eyes again. We are no longer making up excuses for our reality. The colors of our lives become brighter and bolder. We find that when we do right, we fear no man.”

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:09am

  613. 613: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Wanting to be Right
    “We feel that we have to be right so that we can feel good. We don’t want to be wrong because then we’ll feel bad. But we could be more compassionate toward all these parts of ourselves. The whole right and wrong business closes us down and makes our world smaller. Wanting situations and relationships to be solid, permanent, and graspable obscures the pith of the matter, which is that things are fundamentally groundless.”
    (When Things Fall Apart –Pema Chodron)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:15am

  614. 614: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Correction “The man in the story is him and the woman in the story is you.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:24am

  615. 615: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    There is a theory that there are S brains E brains and B brains and I come out as a B brain.

    Who says this theory is true?
    Who says I have to choose to believe this theory?
    Who says I have to believe that there is no sound in the forest just because I can’t hear it?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:28am

  616. 616: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I can and do respect their right to have whatever opinion they want and express it but I do not fee able to actually respect the actual opionion” – which will make for a very small world and small influence. Society have a way of shuffling and shutting out. Continue not respecting others opinion and see how many of them allow you within the vicinity of their boundaries. Fallacy or truth.

    I imagine that you will say you don’t want to have those people in your circle or want to interact with those people. Just to let you know I see this as a refusal to face oneself.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:36am

  617. 617: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    polarizing into abusers and victims – As CCarter says it is a natural process that happens with humans. We just unconsciously take on roles as we interact with each other.

    I kinda got what BeLoved was saying but wanted to make sure I was getting it right.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:42am

  618. 618: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    FW 597.

    I feel amused

    Again dismissive and coming across as superior. It might be culture thing. What is the lesson here?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:47am

  619. 619: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    FW how is CCs e-book? I’m tempted to buy it. I liked the content in Rori’s newsletter today (which was all Christian Carter) about a man’s relationship timeline.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:47am

  620. 620: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    See it how you like FW. Those are your judgements and your imagintion.

    Neither are my reality.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:51am

  621. 621: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I disagree that we are all just triggered.”

    Again dismissive. Though the statement might be true, how will this build bridges as opposed to tearing them down?

    How about sandwiching the statement so that the person feels that you are not dismissing them as a person but just don’t feel resonant with what they are saying?

    As the Hendricks and Rori talk about – is this listening with the intent to learn or is it listening with the intent to respond/react. Crafting a internal response rather than listening.

    Curiosity and an intent to learn can turn interactions around. We might disagree but I ask myself what am I creating by telling you I disagree? Wonder what will happen if I just say “mmmmmm”? Wonder if my brain might find some value in what the other person is saying and just allow the other person to feel heard? Do I really have to agree or disagree?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:53am

  622. 622: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “See it how you like FW. Those are your judgements and your imagintion.”

    mmmmmmm reminds me of CCarter’s reference to the velvet hammer. Reminds me of a boss who used to tell me “tell them to go to he!ll in a way that they look forward to going”. I can see clearly now what he meant. I can see clearly how dismissiveness is like tearing down your life with your own hands.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:56am

  623. 623: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t feel the same re we are all just triggered.

    To me it depends on the emotion I am feeling. If I feel a core emotion I do not feel triggered and in my wounded self. This is how I feel able to check in on myself see if I am on the right track for me.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 8:58am

  624. 624: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium – he is very wordy and detailed and go into a lot of psycho babble that had me wondering at first how does that relate to a relationship between a man and a woman. As time went on and I got context to relate the material to I found it very complementary to Rori’s work coming from the other side. He incorporates a lot of things about human psychology and how it plays out in the real world.

    Like “how are in any relationship is the way you are in the relationship.” It helps me to see relationships from the “receiving” end of my interactions. I found a lot of value in it though he was so detailed and verbose. Not necessarily an easy read and he makes a lot of reference about other books such as Power vs Force (the most difficult book I have read).

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:01am

  625. 625: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I feel relieved that we are now polarizing over something other than the issue which shall no longer be mentioned.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:01am

  626. 626: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:03am

  627. 627: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Your outlook on life is a direct reflection on how much you like yourself.” ~Lululemon


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:09am

  628. 628: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I got introduced to a lot of books and coaches through CCarter’s work. Even the extremely controversial Guy Blews. CCarter is one man I have experienced who makes space for all kinds of differences.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:17am

  629. 629: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I wanted to ask you FW what do you think you are creating by suggesting ot telling me or others what to do a lot of the time?

    If I am not asking for advice about what to do I don’t really want it.

    I was felt open earlier to hearing some of your suggestions but now I just feel overwhelmed by the constant suggestions so don’t really want to listen anymore. My head is starting to hurt. Nearly up to my limit and tolerance.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  630. 630: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Reading this reminds me of the kinda thing I like about CCarter.

    “A man making the decision to commit to you is DEFINITELY not the result of any one “talk” you have with him where you’re asking him where it’s going based on your OWN AGENDA.

    You see, that’s the key.

    Once you stop thinking of what it is you want and why you’re right and he’s wrong, and start to be curious about what HE wants and what he is feeling, you can completely shift the vibe you’re putting off… and change the way he feels completely.

    I’ll talk to you again soon and best of luck in life and love,


    Indigo I think this email relates to your situation “So stop feeling anxious and worried about whether or not a man will actually want to commit to you, or whether you’re wasting precious time and energy on a man who may NEVER commit.” “Bottom line: unless you’re triggering that “forever” feeling in him ANOTHER WAY, a man isn’t going to feel compelled to bring up the issue of “commitment” with you. And if you bring it up first when he’s not “feeling” it… then he’ll feel put off and pressured.”

    Your comment above suggests D is feeling the forever feeling so he is indirectly bringing it up through the stories about his family. I believe engaging him in a feminine way, when he brings it up could help him to continue feeling comfortable with commitment and can help to open him up.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:31am

  631. 631: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I wanted to ask you FW what do you think you are creating by suggesting ot telling me or others what to do a lot of the time?

    Now that your head is starting to hurt are you sure you want to ask this question?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:33am

  632. 632: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Sunflower, you should have seen the last one– 1600 posts, made my head hurt :-) I think Rori is doing a training right now and doesn’t have time to update the blog?

    FW- that Power vs. Force looks very very interesting! I’ll admit that I have a very silly bias against Christian Carter- he is too “pretty”…. Laughing at myself….

    That quote of his from today is so on the money. I’m usually so in my head ( it’s all about me me me!) and my story tht I’m missing all the signs of where a man is in his timeline and I’ve screwed up the points where something “good” could have happened because I was not paying attention to reality.
    But I am happy I am exactly where I am now- everything happened the way it was meant to, the way it is continuing to just be right.

    Feeling blessed today. And grateful for my family.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:49am

  633. 633: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “This is just what happens when you spend a certain amount of time apart and you get back together.”

    And Indigo I think this is okay. I am not sure this is a gremlin voice. I am reading it as your intuition. Your intuition telling you that this relationship needs time and space. Space where it can breathe and grow into something bigger than it ever can if smothered. The ebb and flow of the energy might be telling you that it can grow big and expand in the space too. It doesn’t only need one state to be connected. I am wondering if you shouldn’t be listening to the energy here.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:53am

  634. 634: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    It was in the Power vs Force book that I first learned about muscle testing.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 9:55am

  635. 635: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Praying that Lisa and Liquid Light both have peaceful hearts today….

    Sometimes I wish I had the email address of each and every one of you so I could send you private messages of love and support when I feel a pull to do so.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:02am

  636. 636: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    I read the posts in my email sometimes and don’t notice that they are responses to older threads- a was Sunflowers comment- so I respond on the current thread by mistake.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:04am

  637. 637: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    This book is an absolute must for anyone searching for a better understanding of “how reality works”.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:05am

  638. 638: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, thank you for your kind words to me. I feel uplifted by them.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:06am

  639. 639: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    I agree Mercedes. Lisa has been in my caring thoughts every day.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:06am

  640. 640: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    so what if the masseuse puts his hands around my neck that is not a crime

    there is consent that thsi is a possible part of massage just like it could be a possible part of sex

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:09am

  641. 641: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Dang, it’s expensive & no Kindle version :-( Didnt notice that before. Maybe I know someone I can borrow it from !


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:09am

  642. 642: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    I feel completely lost with the main conversation here, it goes to fast for me haha but…

    I just discovered something that intrigues me a lot, and I am wondering if some of you have some thoughts about it.

    I use 3 different languages each day, and today for the first time I used feeling messages in my mother tongue, and I felt so embarrassed and weird doing so. I have no problems with using feeling messages in other two, but my mother tongue, it just feels so wrong to do so. Can it be it is so culturally coded that in my mother tongue we “should not” express feelings, or is it that in other two it is easier to create the new “me”, cause I have less history, or combination of both, I do not know yet. Do any of you experienced such thing? how do you deal with this polarity? How does one adapt feeling messages to a language without loosing the point of it?

    I kind of feel split in two right now, on one hand I can just use the tools freely, but as soon as i speak my mother tongue I just have no clue how to express myself.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:10am

  643. 643: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    ok so im facebook checking hoping bookie contacted me

    i feel not loved enough!

    mostly cuz i wanna wake up in my own spot

    my priorities and going about stuff is a bit crossed up

    EFT in bed helps

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:14am

  644. 644: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis: I have absolutely no experience with this but I do want to say that I am fascinated by your question and particularly your thoughts around: “Can it be it is so culturally coded that in my mother tongue we “should not” express feelings, or is it that in other two it is easier to create the new “me”, cause I have less history, or combination of both”

    Wow…I feel like I could study that concept for literally YEARS and have fun doing it. May I ask what your mother tongue is?

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:15am

  645. 645: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I bet you’ve experienced the frustration of repeatedly being treated as nothing more than a friend by a man you are deeply attracted to. If this has happened to you frequently, you may be experiencing competing drives that actually create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Allow me just a moment to make sure we’re on the same page about what a “self-fulfilling prophecy” actually is. It’s a situation where you believe something is likely to happen and end up causing the thing to happen because of your belief

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:15am

  646. 646: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    FW, the question was just for you to answer yourself If you want to. I don’t need an answer. I don’t feel attached to the outcome of if you do chose to answer or not. I feel easy either way really. Just popped in my head and I wanted to ask it so I did.

    I already asked it.

    So no don’t want to ask it again. Feels best to just laeve it with you.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:19am

  647. 647: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis it struck me as a fight or flight freeze response. I wonder what you experience is with guys in your culture as it is opposed to men of other cultures?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:21am

  648. 648: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Feeling a little tired but calm and peacful, so time for ten mins shut eye.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:22am

  649. 649: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis – i experience this… even people correcting me in my native language. however, people initially ‘corrected’ me in English too

    it’s worth it… my family has now intuitively picked up on my feeling messages in my native language and it has bettered the way we relate and express ourselves.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:23am

  650. 650: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t feel triggered reading through this … I do see my own blind spot that I’ve been working on playing out here … how taking any “rigid” position can make understanding tough, and how sometimes it feels safer being rigid anyway …

    I think of another thing that happened with this guy I felt unsafe with … While here, he took a photograph in my bedroom without my permission. Then also without my permission he posted it on FB. Nothing like that has happened to me before and in the moment I guess I felt so shocked I tried to laugh it off. Deep down though, I felt really yucky about it. Why didn’t he ask first, both before taking a photo and certainly before posting it? Later I noticed I was still really angry about it. It happened without my knowledge so I had no opportunity to speak up before it happened … and I felt so shocked that I didn’t speak up powerfully even after he posted it.

    Was I “violated”? Well, it felt really icky to me and undermined any trust I felt in the situation. It definitely had me feeling even less attraction to him …

    Well, sometimes this happens in life. Something happens that we don’t know how to respond to in the moment … And we can learn from it and speak up more powerfully next time. I feel like I can see and understand all the viewpoints being expressed on the thread, and none of them are “wrong.”

    Meanwhile, I recorded a “leaks” video yesterday because I felt all the leaks showing up in my appliances were a “message.” I realized I have been “leaking” my energy into thinking about several situations in my life that felt shocking and unresolved to me. And I don’t want to leak that energy anymore. It feels draining, literally. Felt an improvement today and will probably record another video on that …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:28am

  651. 651: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @ Mercedes

    I feel completely fascinated by all this.

    I am Polish but always dreamed to live in Norway, and now I feel really lucky to live that dream :)

    I moved to Norway also because of culture, people here are more relaxed and calm and I feel I have more personal freedom. Though I never gave it a though if it is about men, but…

    Polish men are more masculine in energy than Norwegians and that is the fact (very general though, so there are exceptions as with everything). With Norwegians you really have to outgirl them alot haha ..and then you never talk about feelings in Poland, though you can do it in Norway really easily even without using the “feel” word. So this feels kind of confusing, as it is totally opposite on the energy – expressing with words scale :)

    When I decided to get out of my toxic situation I started to imagine how I want my relationship to be. And I always used a Polish guy I met twice 10 years ago as a visualization. It just felt good to use his image. And I just dropped him a FB msg that I feel intrigued by him haha I just felt like saying hello, for all the good feeling his image brought me :) This feels kind of funny but good too. Though finding the right words felt really hard. And thus came all culture/language questions :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:31am

  652. 652: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @Daria wow corrected? Like people telling that you should not express feelings or?

    I was never corrected, but it just feels way easier in the other languages than my mother tongue.

    can i ask what is your mother tongue? :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:33am

  653. 653: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 592 – This doesn’t feel soppy to me. It feels lovely, beautiful, soft. I love it.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:36am

  654. 654: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Ty for sharing that Erika. I had the photo thing happen with me to not in Bedroom at public place.

    I spoke the the person about it said I didn’t feel happy about photos not of my choosing being available for public and world to see. And wanted it taken down.
    They told me how I was being rediculous and wanted to know what the problen was. Said how ot would inconvience them to remove it yada yada yada.

    They were not happy with me. Left it with them, they did remove it.
    I would have taken it futher if they had not removed it. as it felt important to me.

    They later repeated this tried in on again. And same thing happened again.

    said I felt happy for pics to be shared with the private group but not public, they wanted to share with public. If other people were happy with this that was up to them but I wasn’t.

    He hasn’t done it again. Although he does sulk about it and doesn’t like it.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:42am

  655. 655: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    It does seem to me that guys who don’t have good social intuition and intelligence do need to ask permission …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:54am

  656. 656: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    For the record:

    I do not believe (and never believed) that it is okay for a person to put his/her hand on another person’s throat if the person does not want it.

    I believe it is not okay to put one’s hand on ANY part of another person’s body if the person does not want it.

    I believe that it does not matter one bit how many OTHER people are okay with a partner’s hand on any given part of their body – that still does NOT make it okay for everyone and anyone. Each individual has the right to decide for her/himself what type of touch is acceptable.

    I hope that clears things up so we can move on.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:56am

  657. 657: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    MMM – I thought so.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:01am

  658. 658: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    I didn’t realize CCarter referenced Power v Force in his book. I feel intrigued. I use the Map of Consciousness (from Power v Force) quite regularly.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:07am

  659. 659: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Another example of how people use experiences in their own life to paint it categorically as something that must happen in everyone else’s life

    ““Like it or not, conflict in marriage is simply inevitable.”
    -Excerpt From: Alex Kendrick & Stephen Kendrick. “The Love Dare.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:09am

  660. 660: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Daria with a massage they have to again get your consent and ask

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:10am

  661. 661: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel pleased to hear that Melanie.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:12am

  662. 662: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “When a man senses that the woman he’s with is also carefully deciding whether or not she should CHOOSE HIM or not, suddenly a man will jump into the “space” that brings a more committed relationship together”

    CCarter wisdom

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:17am

  663. 663: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    Re: “MMM – I thought so.”

    Thanks, FW. I feel understood. :) I feel relieved.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:19am

  664. 664: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    So I’m not sure anyone here is really disagreeing with each other. When in doubt about whether the touch is welcome, a man needs to have a conversation with a woman before putting hands on her throat. It seems to me that most if not all of us would feel unsafe if a man did this without it being clearly understood between us that it’s okay and welcome …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:25am

  665. 665: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “Daria with a massage they have to again get your consent and ask”. This triggered “silence means consent” in my consciousness. This is what some people have learned and applied in social situations. By choosing to get a massage it seems to stand to reason that you have agreed to your body being touched all over.

    Is it that when it comes to relationships there is an accepted norm that the partner have rights to touch a person anywhere on their body? How would this show up in our belief system and play out in real life? I wonder if trust plays any part?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:28am

  666. 666: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    You know, I can relate to what Syreena is saying here … I felt the same way about what happened with my ex. To me, it was so clear that what he did was not okay. It’s not okay to woo a celibate woman for six months with representations of a long-term partnership and then abruptly disconnect and disappear. Nobody would be okay with that if they were in my shoes. It felt unsafe and deeply unfair and dishonest. And it felt very frustrating to me that so many women would not acknowledge what to me was obvious – nobody wants to be treated that way, and it’s not okay what happened.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:30am

  667. 667: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I totally relate to what Syreena is saying. For the most part I totally agree.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:37am

  668. 668: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Exactly Erika it is the man responsibilty to get consent and ask.
    He didn’t. He violated her.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:40am

  669. 669: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And maybe I was so traumatized by the situation and so upset that the way I expressed it was hard for some people to hear … That doesn’t change that it’s an important message that needs to be heard and acknowledged. What he did was not okay. It was not okay.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:40am

  670. 670: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “a man needs to have a conversation with a woman before putting hands on her throat” – still I ask if in a relationship with someone I consider a friend and lover do I trust? My body, soul and spirit is so intertwined how do I *test* a man to know he will protect them like his own? How soon do I let down my guard and invite him in? Do I spend less time doing this than I do in making up my mind about a pair of jeans or a house that I want to buy?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:41am

  671. 671: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Hugs Erika. That hurts my heart reading that happpened to you.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:41am

  672. 672: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And whether or not I could have “handled it better” after it happened … sure, I could have been more “perfect” … it STILL was not okay what he did.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:42am

  673. 673: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I ask these questions because I do know that in many marriages women get violated?

    Is it because we do not claim our power and speak up for ourselves early on?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  674. 674: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Syreena. It felt awful. I had deeply, deeply trusted this man after months and months of very intimate connection.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  675. 675: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I agree FW, sadly we live in a culture where sex is seen by a lot of people as sport.

    And some men will pretend and say anything to get you into bed and wooing you making out it isn’t sport and then low and behold off they go and you were just treated as sport.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:46am

  676. 676: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I feel sad even now thinking about it, how it was NEVER acknowledged that what happened was not okay. I don’t want to live in a world where men can be that dishonest and get away with it.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  677. 677: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    For me, it would depend greatly on the nature and strength of the touch. If a man were actually choking me, yes, I would feel unsafe. If it were a more gentle movement, and not hurting me in any way, I might feel surprised, but if he were a man I trusted, I would feel safe.

    The trouble is, some women feel frightened and uncomfortable with *many* aspects of sex, and men won’t necessarily know which things are potentially problematic. I was just reading last night about how in the 1950’s a manual for men advised men that on their wedding night their wives would likely feel scared and repulsed by their husband’s naked bodies, and might even vomit.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:48am

  678. 678: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman 598

    ” He resonates with the values of his family and dreaming of creating the type situation with you. The key is what you do/say/how you be that tips him over the edge. Show him that you are the girl for him and wife material.

    Give him the respect he needs.
    Show him that you will not hinder him on his journey through life but support him. How you will help him achieve what he is here on the planet to achieve.”

    Thank you, this really resounded in my soul. I very much feel he was telling me though not directly that this is what he wants for his life now, and that he hopes it is me. Just knowing him as I do, he would not have shared it with me otherwise. In fact, I was the first person outside of immediate family to find out that his sister-in-law is pregnant.

    Making his life easy, supporting him, not hindering him… yeah, this is something I have really incorporated (can’t think of a better word!) this time around, something I have learned from since the first time we were together. I think feeling so much more secure in myself and having done the work on myself, this comes so much more easily. I’ve not asked him what he sees for us, but he’s mentioned the words “for life” and “always”, and I know that when he dreams of his life, he dreams of calm and contentment. It is interesting you ask who is his favourite superhero because he is really into games and heroic fantasy! I wonder what that means. For me, he is a really masculine man who loves it when I am happy. In some funny way, I feel like the way I can respect him most is by being happy, by allowing the things that he does to *make* me happy.

    The other thing that I’ve done to respect him which feels very important, is I don’t fight with him. I don’t mean I’m a pushover, I just give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and I don’t try and niggle and push like I did before, I allow things to be as they are and I believe that all is well.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:48am

  679. 679: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I hear you and my heart goes out to you Erika.

    Does that make it difficult to trust now?
    Or are you in a better more trusting place?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:49am

  680. 680: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 672 – Spot on Syreena. Which is the reason why I feel so resonant with women taking their power back rather than behaving like we are subject to our hormones and have no choice in the matter.

    I feel comforted in Mimi Tanner’s words “First – healthy women don’t stay with the bad apples.

    And they don’t spend hours of their time months and years later going over “what he did to me”!”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:51am

  681. 681: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t want to take you back to that sad place Erika unless it feels good for you to talk.
    Big hugs. X

    I really do believe it would be good to start at school in sex ed and teach our young girls and boys that it is more than just a physical act and has emotional and spiritual consequences.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:53am

  682. 682: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium 608

    Yes! I’m not sure if it was insecurity on my part, in fact I’m sure it was, but I didn’t realize before that this man also fears getting hurt, and there will be times when I might feel called to soothe him and that this would be a good thing to do. Not everything is a negative reflection on me, lol :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:54am

  683. 683: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, what it led me to do is be even more careful about sex and intimacy. Now I view it the way I view the “coaching commitment process” with my clients. I don’t schedule sessions until people have pre-paid. I have “no refund” policy. I don’t invest until people are putting some real skin in the game. And I now require the same with men. This approach meant that I realized this recent guy was not a good match for me BEFORE I had sex with him, and I did not have sex with him. My boundaries are much stronger, and my standards have gone way up … If I did the situation with my ex over again, I would not have had sex with him until he had invested a large amount of money and time in backing up his words. So far these standards have weeded out ALL contenders … I’ve had enough relationships to know what I want and am not going to invest my time and energy in anything other than the real thing.

    And seeing that I have become so much more powerful, still I feel sad that it was never acknowledged that what he did was not okay. Nobody wants to live in a world where men can do what he did and get away with it. It undermines the very foundation of trust, at least for me.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:55am

  684. 684: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Wow I feel sad living in a world like this …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:57am

  685. 685: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman 627

    Yes, I think one thing that is not there this time with me is the urgency to have a “commitment” talk. I know he’s got to be feeling it, and as you say, bringing up the stories about his family was a powerful sign and I saw it as such. I felt really soft when he was telling me this and I just imagined opening my heart to him, even as I was sending loving thoughts to his sister-in-law. Thank you, this felt good to read.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:58am

  686. 686: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 674 – MMM I might be one of those women spoken about in that book. Just the other day I was doing an energetic scan in my body and I bumped into *scorn* when I got into my vagina. I was shocked, floored. It was never a feeling I have ever been conscious of around there for me. I can remember around my kids especially my son who tends to walk around in his underwear with it sticking out now. I also remember my mother making comments to me with scorn tinged in when she saw me walking around half naked in my own house. But it never occured to me that I had a belief fed by scorn towards myself inside myself.

    The problem I have with your comment though is like it is focussed on your knowledge so it seems you missed the part that Lisa shared that he tossed her around during sex. I can’t see myself being in the mood after the tossing around. I can totally imagine though that with the past trauma someone could have frozen in the moment.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:00pm

  687. 687: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    My heart feels really deeply for Lisa. It feels like such a truly deeply painful and traumatic past. It really makes me feel like mine pales in comparison.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:02pm

  688. 688: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, Feminine Woman 630 … very wise.

    I spent a certain amount of time resenting the time we were apart, but when I look at it from the context of what you said, it was a very good thing. It gave us a chance to expand into the rather beautiful thing I see now. I felt the beauty and I’m awed by it. I feel the space was a very good thing for him, for me and for us together. There’s no logic to it, it just is.

    I think it was just that time apart creates uncertainty and a feeling of… can I trust him? But does it have to create that, I wonder? Maybe time apart made us more solid than ever. Thank you FW xx

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:04pm

  689. 689: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo now to build moments.

    Sweet feeling moments, one by one.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:04pm

  690. 690: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Melanie Murphy Meyer 635 :)

    You’re welcome :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:05pm

  691. 691: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Even Rori in the video programs said that I “messed it up.” That felt horrible. I feel unseen and unheard. I had every reason to believe this person was for real. It’s not okay what he did. I feel really weary of men being defended in these situations. What he did was not okay. It’s not okay to get people to invest, whether it’s sex or money or anything else, based on false pretenses. It’s not okay. And then for him to disconnect abruptly without being willing to stay in connection to work it out … that felt even worse. Wow I feel sad.

    “The world I see holds nothing that I want. Beyond this world there is a world I want.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:06pm

  692. 692: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I think it was just that time apart creates uncertainty and a feeling of… can I trust him?

    It depends on your perspective. The story you tell yourself. Look at the reality of what has been created. Maybe that was what the relationship needed to heal “in this moment”. Doesn’t mean things won’t change in the next and he finds himself wanting to keep you close for dear life. Go with the ebb and flow of the energy. Let you intuition guide you as you pay attention to what is being created before your eyes.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:08pm

  693. 693: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And yea if we had trauma in the past, it is very easy to “freeze” or “overreact” in the moment … that doesn’t make it okay for the person to be rough without consent or “chicken out” after spending months getting a woman into bed by assuring her in every possible way that it’s going to be a real relationship.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:08pm

  694. 694: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I didn’t want casual sex. He knew that. It’s not okay.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:09pm

  695. 695: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Dominique 650

    I’m glad :) the feelings were beautiful and soft, and I’m glad that came across.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:09pm

  696. 696: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I feel really sad. I’m gonna go take a shower and let the tears come.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:12pm

  697. 697: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes 632

    I love this loving thought of yours, Mercedes.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:12pm

  698. 698: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    this man also fears getting hurt – like many men do but put up a macho armour to appear tough and like they can conquer the world. Maybe it is a reason why some coaches say that men look for women who understands their minds better than they do. When a woman can identify and soothe such feelings of her beloved, sometimes without obviously bringing it up, I imagine than can be priceless to them. Two people living in a world of just knowing. Living in their own world. Their own cocoon.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:13pm

  699. 699: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – It is not okay. It is not okay. It is not okay.

    I feel your heart.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:14pm

  700. 700: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I saw the part about being tossed around. My understanding was that those were two separate occasions – one at the beginning of the relationship and one at the end. Again, “tossed around” could mean any number of things, and is not necessarily abusive.

    I agree with the statements in this thread about speaking up in the moment, and after the moment, and even before getting involved sexually with a new man for those who have had uncomfortable or frightening experiences. And also using our power to say No and walk away from a relationship if we feel we are being abused – or even if we personally feel uncomfortable regardless of whether or not it is abuse.

    I acknowledge that for women who are entrenched in an abusive situation, OR have been in the past, this is not easy.

    On the other hand, I do feel frustrated when men are unjustly blamed. I also feel concerned that when women do that, they are giving up their power, both in their current situation and as they move on.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:19pm

  701. 701: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Whether you’re good looking or not, it’s never a good idea to be leading with your Sex Card around men. Men secretly want a virtuous woman. They don’t want a woman who wears her sex overtly for any man to ogle at. That’s the one night stand woman. The virtuous woman is the one he can picture introducing to his parents.

    This quote by the famous director, Alfred Hitchcock, is an accurate reflection of how the majority of men feel:

    “I’ve never been very keen on women who hang their sex round their neck like baubles. I think it should be discovered. It’s more interesting to discover the sex in a woman than it is to have it thrown at you.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:23pm

  702. 702: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    MMM – what that brought to mind was “ahhh MMM finding the balance in life (relationships) is never easy”.

    Maybe a limiting belief that is blocking me.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:25pm

  703. 703: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.

    A live coward is better than a dead fool.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  704. 704: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:


    Your feelings about the situation with your ex remind me of how I felt about the events that ended my marriage. I felt so wronged and so powerless. It felt like surely he shouldn’t be able to get away with it. It took me 10 years to get to a much better place about it.

    ~ Melanie

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:29pm

  705. 705: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Feminine Woman 689. Beautiful

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:33pm

  706. 706: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman 698

    Just to elaborate on this, yes I so believe this.

    I didn’t see this before, the vulnerability he was hiding, but I do now, or rather my heart sees it and just prompts me quietly. It is in these moments that I use gentle words of endearment and love which might sound awkward in a different moment, but in that moment hit the spot. There is so much quiet understanding that passes between us. We talk, but we don’t talk a lot, which I love.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  707. 707: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I will post one last time in response to Lisa…things get to be to much for me to understand and when I get overloaded with anxieties I try harder until all I hear is silence for days and days and days. Feelings of well all that stuff no one wants to hear over and over, but love pain. ECT.ect. From having something end abruptly and for seemingly small reasons. (refer to previous post of my relationship) that when my mind gets so tired of being melted trying to think and remember so much and still get nothing hurts. So I can relate to you in your soul disenigrating. tiny ghost feet will do that to people. I know it feels like it would make me feel like I would be sick and cry. Sorry for your light funny. 😐 maybe I would name my next baby jennifer breanna if it was a girl, or Jonathan Tyler if it were a boy. Yeah :-) have to remember those….. Im sure they would v be beautiful . I hope everyone enjoyed their day at work and be sure to remember that somebody somewhere will always love you… Simma sImma my wet face.
    Side note glad my phones working again. For some reason i can’t make calls out only receive. Hope i can get that fixed if at all possible. …. God bless everyone, gone non bloggin. ……


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:42pm

  708. 708: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks FW and Syreena, I appreciate that, it helps me feel heard.

    I feel despair about living in a world where I or other women must have conversations and basically have a guy mortgage his whole life about things so basic as –

    oh by the way, it won’t be okay with me if you lie to me.

    and physical violence won’t be okay either.

    and if you lead me on for six months and then abruptly disconnect making a bunch of excuses and pretending you never said what you said (even though most of it’s in writing), I’m probably going to feel pretty upset.

    oh, and I really am going to feel pretty upset if you take photographs of my sensitive spaces and post them on FB without my permission …

    how many of these conversations do I really need to have?

    That any of this needs to be discussed triggers despair for me and I don’t even want to be in relationships with men …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:50pm

  709. 709: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I feel despair about living in a world where if those things do happen, because I just can NEVER be careful enough … then other women will blame me for it and say I “messed up” … I feel livid about that, and very very sad

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:52pm

  710. 710: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I feel good about not blaming *anyone* – not myself, not others. (I didn’t always feel that way. I spent plenty of time blaming myself and/or blaming others.)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:57pm

  711. 711: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I feel really, really disappointed about these experiences with men, and I feel horrified and concerned that my ex teaches other men about women … without ever having coming clean in this situation … and that nothing and nobody holds him accountable.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 12:59pm

  712. 712: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    I still have a bit of a blame trigger – I feel upset when people blame me for things I didn’t do, or when they say I did something wrong and I believe I didn’t. That happened last night on facebook. :(

    I felt so surprised last night on facebook when women were saying it’s okay to lie to men and it’s to be expected that men will lie to us (unless they are in a committed relationship).

    When I expressed a different standard for myself and my relationships around lying, the reaction startled and saddened me.

    Being blamed has been a lifelong role for me, since even before I was born. “Scapegoat” has been my family/group role …. In the past few years I have made great strides in getting out of that role . . . better and better at not accepting and internalizing blame and shame. I feel good about that, and grateful, but also discouraged sometimes when I see it is not completely healed.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:06pm

  713. 713: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “I felt so surprised last night on facebook when women were saying it’s okay to lie to men and it’s to be expected that men will lie to us (unless they are in a committed relationship).”

    I feel despair about this too … if this kind of thing actually has to be discussed, I just don’t think I can have relationships in this society.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:14pm

  714. 714: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I meant tummy not funny..

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:19pm

  715. 715: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel like absolute Crap. I had to let him go, it wasn’t good for me. But I am in so much pain ……

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:21pm

  716. 716: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo I am wondering how you could be his anchor for pleasurable feelings.

    I recently heard from Allison Armstrong say that men have a surge of testosterone when a woman talks about what she is passionate about

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:23pm

  717. 717: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    I believe we create our own relationships. I don’t think we have to have the relationships that society tells us we have to have. I hear about it all the time when I talk about how my relationship is free from compromise and from conflict. I get to hear things like “Mercedes, relationships without conflict do not exist” and “Mercedes says if you have to compromise, dump him”…things like that. In my mind and heart though, they do exist (ummm….actually…more than just in my mind and in my heart…I have one existing in my own home right now) and if I had ever said or meant “dump him”, J and I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to heal and grow and reach this place.

    The point is, the relationships that are acceptable or known or viewed by society does not have to be the reality in our own homes. I believe we can have whatever we want when it comes to life partners. I believe we can have whatever that looks like for us.

    As Dominique says “Those who don’t believe will never have the opportunity to experience it”.

    Personally, to me, it doesn’t matter what kind of world we live in…what matters is what I’m growing in my own life and in my own home. The rest of the world can have what *they* choose to manifest. For me, I choose this.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  718. 718: MercedesNo Gravatar says:


    Much Love to you,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:26pm

  719. 719: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    It feels good to be in touch with my disappointment, and my despair, and my anger, and my sadness. What happened was not okay. I’m being with the “not-okayness” of it too.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:35pm

  720. 720: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I’m sorry Erika who are you referring to please? Maybe because it was after my post that said something about lying to someone and ending abruptly, seem lime it was directed t poo wards me? If I’m mistaken , sorry Cox

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:36pm

  721. 721: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Xox sorry

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:36pm

  722. 722: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “God’s Will for me is perfect happiness.”

    “I can elect to change all thoughts that hurt.”

    “Truth will correct all errors in my mind.”

    “And God Himself shall wipe away all tears.”

    “A happy outcome to all things is certain.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:38pm

  723. 723: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – I hear you with your disappointments – I have had all but one of my relationships bruise me if not scar me – I feel grateful for the one who allowed me to see that relationships can be loving and not just harrowing – and i don’t use that word lightly my relationships have been harrowing; i’ve been cheated on and verbally abused; and threatened with suicide and in violent situations and all of the rest. Mostly I put down to a time of my life that was different from now but I cannot safely say that – one of the most harrowing relationships I had happened last year and that was after I’d done years of work and found Rori I thought I’d cracked it and it turned out worse than ever.

    I felt demoralised – is there noway you can tell? As you say, is there no way you can be careful enough?

    Now, I find myself relegated to friends status again and I feel sick and tired. This man, loving and kind for the best part, but I feel like i’m treading water during any conflict situation. When i try to discuss my feelings he goes into the defensive immediately and twists it so I don’t even know what my feelings are anymore.

    Also when I state my feelings about how the situation doesn’t work for me he bombards me with how good he’s been to me etc and…i end up giving in

    the only way out, i can see, is no contact and i know i’ll face some resistance to that

    the argument last night was triggered by my stuffed feelings; all my rage at not having my needs met surfaced – he thought i was unhappy about something simple; i wasn’t i feel unhappy about all the not simple. I feel rage at the friend position both towards him and towards myself. He interpreted something completely different and I couldn’t get him to hear me. its hard to get him to hear me; his own voice is too loud.

    I took myself away today. i have been at the beach. it felt lovely to walk beside the sea and have the wind soothe me. there is such a big world out there.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:39pm

  724. 724: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    FW – I love that comment that men have a surge of testosterone when we are passionate about things – just the same as rori encouraging us to speak with our feelings

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:41pm

  725. 725: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry for the misspelling I have auto.correct. ” *with my post saying about not being truthful and ending abruptly ” thought maybe u were directing towards me. If not sorry.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:42pm

  726. 726: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    713 – I completely agree Mercedes and I will never stop agreeing – i choose a loving environment that is in no way a reflection of the conflict-ridden one I grew up in – I will not do that to myself or my future children – i want a family who communicate with love, have fun and enjoy each other. I want peace.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:44pm

  727. 727: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie: And I believe you will have it. You will have whatever you want. This part does not surprise me at all though: “I thought I’d cracked it and it turned out worse than ever.” – It seems that happens so often…just when we think we’ve cleared out the junk, all of a sudden the junk is dirtier and thicker and messier than ever. But…from my experience…that’s just a test to make sure you have resolved all of it. Stuff comes up that you still needed to work on/get through/learn from. I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, but each and every one of those experiences can teach you something about your own healing and allow you to move even further along with it. The more healing and the more focused you are on your journey, the more quickly everything you desire becomes a reality.

    I wish you all the best and I do believe with you in the life you want. I believe it is yours.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 1:49pm

  728. 728: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Sophie and Mercedes. I agree we can create our own way of being even if others are doing something else.

    I feel so intrigued that last night I forgot wine altogether. It’s not just that I didn’t have any, I didn’t even think about it until I was going to bed when I realized wow … I forgot … There’s an open bottle in the fridge and I think it’s already been open for a week … it’s very interesting …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:03pm

  729. 729: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Erika your post came out right after mine saying something about not telling the truth and ending abruptly, which sounded like some of the things I said. If I may ask was it post all or in .part toward me? Sorry just wondered that seemed really similar.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:04pm

  730. 730: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Mercedes x I believe it too and it feels warm to have it validated x

    It feels comforting to hear also that my experience is not an anomaly and that in some way lets hope it had great purpose – the purpose does not feel obvious to me yet maybe one day it will

    Maybe if I can think I’ve cracked it and everything is great and it turns out to be awful I can also think I have a dud and it has to go and it turns out to be wonderful

    It will turn out to be wonderful in whatever form that takes x i feel sure of that x and resilient for the most part x in the soup and frustrated for the rest x

    Hana ((((HUGS))))

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:04pm

  731. 731: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    erika :) I feel curious about your wine – is your disinterest a reflection of your internal growth?

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:09pm

  732. 732: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Lying is not okay, not even lying by omission, yet it happens. Intentionally or not, it happens. YOU get to choose whether to let this lie to let go or to address.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:09pm

  733. 733: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Sophie, thanks for being interested. Also thanks for sharing your relationship experiences too. I know many of us here have experienced disappointment and we are not alone.

    With wine, I’m not sure … if I had to guess, I used to like to drink it more often to get some relief from so many bad feelings. Over the past couple of years, I recorded literally hundreds of tapping videos releasing HUGE amounts of shame, grief, anger, guilt, resentment, and so on … now I notice wanting to stay connected to myself instead of having wine. I still enjoy having just a little bit … I like the taste and it’s a bit of a “comfort ritual” for me like my morning cappuccino … Yet it’s getting to be only about half a glass nowadays and as soon as I feel any disconnection from myself I put it away … and last night I just forgot … :)

    In one of Rori’s videos, one of the women says during role playing that she “feels like having some tequila.” And Rori went deeper with her about it, and of course she really wanted to get away from uncomfortable feelings … Consider how much of all social life in this world revolves around alcohol … and why …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:18pm

  734. 734: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Can’t get messages out in mod. ..if Erika, my message was to lisa. I thought by t she was the one that posted about little ghost feet and a lighter belly. I just was relating to her that I am sorry her bel ok y is light because the poster said their soul felt like it wad disenigrating. I was trying to comfort and offer my feelings had It be a situation of mine I would feel the same. Think if You posted that I got mixed up but pretty sure it was lisa.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:19pm

  735. 735: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for sharing that with me x I feel interested by others perspectives x I stopped drinking 8 years ago because I had to for that reason really I used it manage (or actually not manage!) all of my emotions x My ‘not drinking’ became very dramatic as I had not done any pre-healing so it felt like entering the world with no skin x I never think about dinking now but I do feel fascinated by the relationship people in our societies have towards drink x not drinking for me has made me have to live a completely authentic existence; be completely me at all times; its quite unusual x And I always get the same reactions from people (unless theyve just never been much inclined to drink). They always find it a bit amazing and can’t imagine doing it x It is so embedded in our culture x people always ask me dont i miss it and how do i enjoy life without it and i can honestly say I don’t because life has become deeper and richer and more real and i always think its funny that i have to make an argument for that rather than the reverse!x hope you dont mind me sharing i havent talked about it in a long time and i have no judgements on whether people choose to drink or not or for what reasons just that it feels interesting to me what relationships we have to it culturally x

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:31pm

  736. 736: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    And so I felt interested in your waning desire to drink and whether you felt it was reflective of exactly what you said internal healing x

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:33pm

  737. 737: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie it is an absolutely intriguing and spellbinding succesful story

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:35pm

  738. 738: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    well not sure erika, think im either shut up in mod, or something but refering to your message post i think the baby ghost feet thing is very very sad and it would hurt so much if it were me. think to find out about it in front of a crowded doctors office in front of patients in a careless way would make me souless. as for the other part of your post about abuse, what does that mean?? im confused . can you please elaborate.. thanks..

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:37pm

  739. 739: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “revolves around alcohol” and other haibts (addictions) that keeps us from truly feeling our true selves.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:38pm

  740. 740: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hana do you feel comfortable sharing your story with us?

    Maybe it could serve as therapy to help you let go of it.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:39pm

  741. 741: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:40pm

  742. 742: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    i dont see my previous respons message i sent before this last on 729. it ask iwhio you had directed your post to regaurding lying and ending abruptly, i seen it showed after mine and i felt tha tcurious waswondering if u would wlaborate please .. thank s

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:41pm

  743. 743: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    FW Hana’s post is at #418

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:44pm

  744. 744: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Miranda, I feel confused … I actually feel touched by your post … I just am not sure if you are talking about something I wrote or another siren …? “baby ghost feet” – that really touched me somehow …

    Sophie, thanks for sharing. I feel intrigued by your experience too of going cold turkey without doing all the healing first – I would imagine that would feel very vulnerable. What I love about my process is that, without really even intending to, it seems I have become a living model of a process I’ve been teaching my clients for years about how to get themselves out of addiction. I had a guy recently kick his porn addiction the same way.

    Instead of going cold turkey, we observe and feel the “addiction” (I put in quotes because even the word feels “judge-y” to me and that can be unhelpful) … notice what we are feeling before we reach for wine or porn or whatever “habit” it is … We become present TO the pattern instead of trying to push it away … So I’ve just accepted myself drinking wine, and now I accept myself drinking less wine or no wine at all … and I feel really good that this process I teach also works for me … and it’s very gentle … the habit is not abruptly taken away, it simply melts away :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:44pm

  745. 745: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    The first few days are always so hard. Allow yourself to feel all the sadness. Eat some comforting foods. Be kind to yourself.


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:46pm

  746. 746: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks WG I thought the new comment about feeling like crap was related to a new development.


    Your intuition will never lead you wrong.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:51pm

  747. 747: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    Wow FW the drinking? x those are beautiful words! I feel very humble x i seldom recognise the gravity of my successes and that is probably one of the most affirming things anyone has ever said to me x it has taken great resilience and great courage (and I still struggle sometimes with addictions) but I feel so grateful for the depth of life (emotionally and interpersonally) I have given myself through sobriety x my life, relationship to myself and others has transformed beyond recognition x

    ((((Egyptians Indeed))))

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:52pm

  748. 748: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I am exploring the anchoring technique of NLP.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:53pm

  749. 749: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    PS FW I forgot the thank you :) it means a lot

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:53pm

  750. 750: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    u wrote abou@ Erika…… \

    I feel despair about living in a world where I or other women must have conversations and basically have a guy mortgage his whole life about things so basic as –

    oh by the way, it won’t be okay with me if you lie to me.

    and physical violence won’t be okay either.

    and if you lead me on for six months and then abruptly disconnect making a bunch of excuses and pretending you never said what you said (even though most of it’s in writing), I’m probably going to feel pretty upset.

    oh, and I really am going to feel pretty upset if you take photographs of my sensitive spaces and post them on FB without my permission …

    how many of these conversations do I really need to have?

    ((((this was my post))))
    will post one last time in response to Lisa…things get to be to much for me to understand and when I get overloaded with anxieties I try harder until all I hear is silence for days and days and days. Feelings of well all that stuff no one wants to hear over and over, but love pain. ECT.ect. From having something end abruptly and for seemingly small reasons. (refer to previous post of my relationship) that when my mind gets so tired of being melted trying to think and remember so much and still get nothing hurts. So I can relate to you in your soul disenigrating. tiny ghost feet will do that to people. I know it feels like it would make me feel like I would be sick and cry. Sorry for your light funny. 😐 maybe I would name my next baby jennifer breanna if it was a girl, or Jonathan Tyler if it were a boy. Yeah :-) have to remember those….. Im sure they would v be beautiful . I hope everyone enjoyed their day at work and be sure to remember that somebody somewhere will always love you… Simma sImma my wet face.

    Maranda says… so they seemed similar plus urgings of a more loving delivery given . idk seems weird.i

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:54pm

  751. 751: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    You are welcome Sophie.

    I am totally sold on celebrating success with people.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:55pm

  752. 752: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “I feel so grateful for the depth of life (emotionally and interpersonally) I have given myself through sobriety”


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 2:55pm

  753. 753: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – yes I hear it as bringing awareness to your addiction or habit or whatever – the gentle and the soothing is key I think – I started smoking again after two and a half years and haven’t kicked it yet – I hate it (and I don’t often use that word) but it also must be serving me on some level – when I fight it that just feeds the feelings of panic and anxiety and insecurity and not love that keeps me doing it – when I am able to be peaceful and loving I manage to stop for a day or two (significant i chain smoke!) – I am not consistently feeling safe enough at the moment I don’t think and so this is what i’m looking at (in fact I started again after a long run of feeling very unsafe)- maybe actually that’s why I was probing you about the alcohol as I just kind of want my cigarette addiction to become naturally undesirable to me x to just fade away x

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:01pm

  754. 754: miranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    im going to have dinner everyone . look ot was great to meat all of you . i just guess im not a dreat blogger and im really starting to feel broken thinking about little ghost feet. its too much for me. noyt like this in that tone.. omg……..
    breathe……… ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. all i can say is god bless, love you all. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:03pm

  755. 755: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    and now if ever my desire to drink wine goes UP again … instead of judging it and thinking it means things have gone backwards and beating myself up … I’ll just get present to the increased desire and ask that what its message is … then I’ll release what shows up with the tapping … and it may be an ebb and flow …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:07pm

  756. 756: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    and btw this is also how I feel about “no contact” and why I don’t practice it … I’d rather get present to my desire to contact instead of going cold turkey …

    ah, I see about the cigarettes … well maybe you can have the gift now of doing it both ways, one way with alcohol that you already did and now a new way with cigarettes …

    I also want to add that there are plenty of ways for people to disconnect without using any drugs at all. The recent guy doesn’t use them and he was not connected. People can even just use “going up in their head” or “spiritual baloney” or just about anything else to disconnect.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:10pm

  757. 757: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    746 – Erika – That’s very similar to what I had to do (emphasis on had – I’m not saying you have to) If I was wanting a drink I had to look at why and then meet my needs in another way – that is great really!

    I feel uncomfortable in this environment – leave! I feel tired – sleep! I feel angry – deal with it within myself. I feel overwhelmed – get support/minimise my life. I feel self-conscious – get confident on and on and on a lot of getting to know myself, a lot of healing support from others, a lot of listening and honouring myself. I guess though my boundaries can be weak with men sometimes I have a lot of boundaries in my life that I’ve not been acknowledging – yay me!

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:15pm

  758. 758: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    yes I like to get present with my desire to contact x i think I feel no contact may be my only way forward in my current situation as I just don’t seem to be able to keep a boundary any other way….

    mmmm pause for thought

    yes disconnect is possible every which way x there are lots of sober people who are not very sober at all x I’ve always felt driven to live deeply and with connection

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:20pm

  759. 759: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    time for my bed x hope you all have a lovely evening x thank you for the reflective space x

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:31pm

  760. 760: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Erika re 706 and 708. I hear you .
    It ‘is not ok and I don’t like it one little bit when people try not to be accountable for their actions.

    This does seem to have an impact when a forfeit happens.. I have noticed this. It appears that up until that point it is Oh I will deal with caught out as and when.

    When we finally accept that we really do have no control over what others chose to do and if they have and their actions and if they have treated us wekk or not it can feel heartbreaking.
    I hope your shower helped. Water always helps me.
    Putting our hands over our hearts when this pain comes up and crying are supposed to be healing tears rather than victim tears and help us heal and the pain lift a little rather than not facing that pain and turning to alchohol or other addictions. And it will come up now and again.
    We need time to greive and heal. And also to have as many good moments as we can.

    I feel pleased that you are moving foreward on to better things. :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:32pm

  761. 761: ElsieNo Gravatar says:


    Dziendobry!!! I too am Polish! (American, but with dual citizenship with Poland!) Where do you live now? :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:37pm

  762. 762: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    College CD and I decided to meet up on Sunday. He then texted me yesterday (Thurs) that his exwife called him and said her flight doesnt get in until late Sunday so he will still have the kiddos. He asked if I was mad, and said he was totally bummed.

    I like this guy. First off, he gave me way big notice. Love that. I think its cute that he thougth I would be mad. I said – No, of COURSE I’m not mad. I like the fact that you and I are in similar situaitons so that you will understand if it happens to me. He seemed so relieved. And then asked if we could go out the next week. Very cute.

    On another note, I officially file for divorce August 1, next thursday. My attorney said it should all be over sometime in October.

    I dont feel happy or sad. Just RELIEVED.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:40pm

  763. 763: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, thank you for this:
    “Putting our hands over our hearts when this pain comes up and crying are supposed to be healing tears”

    You suggested it to me a few months ago, and it has stayed with me, I do this often. It feels so nurturing to myself and I always remember the vibe I felt when I read your post to me about it which adds to feeling softer and more cared for <3

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:46pm

  764. 764: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – I’m not sure what the connection is, but it feels…interesting, remarkable…to notice that your work is with longevity, and to see how many times you’ve used the phrase “I don’t want to live” on just this thread.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 3:54pm

  765. 765: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yea BeLoved, it’s something I’m tapping through using the ACIM lessons … “I don’t want to live in this world” doesn’t mean “I don’t want to live” … It means I’m ready for the healed world that takes its place.

    The lessons are back to back –

    “The world I see holds nothing that I want.”
    “Beyond this world there is a world I want.”

    And the teaching is that we must be willing to “give up” “this world” – which is a form of death, ego death – in order to have the prophecy fulfilled …

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:08pm

  766. 766: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “Each thing you value here is but a chain that binds you to the world, and it will serve no other end but this. For everything must serve the purpose you have given it, until you see a different purpose there. The only purpose worthy of your mind this world contains is that you pass it by, without delaying to perceive some hope where there is none. Be you deceived no more. The world you see holds nothing that you want.”

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 4:11pm

  767. 767: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    Wow… that is cool

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 5:08pm

  768. 768: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    wooo girls night out tonight! i got myself a sexy bright green dress (it’s winter here so colour stands out) and have some nice red shoes…. gonna pretty myself out and go out and have FUN :)

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 5:21pm

  769. 769: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you WG, thank you Mercedes, and FW thank you so much for the hug and support. I would like to share something so maybe I can find a way to deal with all this. What you mentioned FW made me think I should expand on the situation, I’m very vulnerable sharing this but perhaps it will help you and me in understand where I should be going from here. So here it is:

    I have something called dysthymia, and I’m dealing with a few of the symptoms from it that’s caused me some trouble over the years. One of my biggest issues is that carrying on a healthy mature relationship is incredibly difficult because I do not have the maturity to do so, if you learn about this mental disease (hard for me to say that, disease) you will understand why. But, the good news is, that I am learning day by day step by step how to deal with more things. And, I finally after many years decided that it was time for me to seek a little help from medication. I did not want to go that direction because of fear of side effects and I’m such a natural baby that I don’t like anything foriegn like that in my body. But it was either this or I ruin my life and don’t have a healthy relationship and of course there are other repurcussions. Anyway… My intuition is telling me that I need a break from Amir because I am now going through some huge growing and I need to pick up the pieces and get to my best self, and I’m so tired of ruining relationships because of my problem. Yes, it takes two, and I understand that, but I’m taking responsibility for my actions. So…I do believe that if we are meant to be together then hopefully time will allow that, or maybe I will meet someone more suitable for me. I didn’t tell him that though. And my question for you, dear sweet Sirens is:

    Should I have told him the truth about all the above? Because this is what I actually told him, and not face to face either (I’m embarressed but… it’s done now)
    This is what I wrote to him by email *cringe

    The last little while was fun and exciting most of the time, but I can’t do this anymore Amir. I’ve thought about it, and it isn’t working for me.

    I wish you the best, and I want you to know that I care very much and respect your space and everything we’ve shared past and recent present. It’s just become too hard for me and I feel like I’m not my best self when we’re together, and it’s just not good enough for me.


    He replied simply:

    I’m sorry that you felt like this, but I don’t want to push myself and I respect your space. I feel that we would always be good friends. Amir

    Soooo, ladies, should I have just told him more honestly what’s going on? Or should I leave it at that and let time do some healing and whatever else!?

    SIGH, seriousely, I have very limited people in my life that understand or are there to listen. I live with my parents and my two kids and they are Jewish and very religious, I am not observant at ALL, and Amir is Persian, they don’t know about our relationship and would be so against it that I cannot tell them. It’s a very dramatic situation, and it causes me so much extra guilt too. OYE!

    XOXO thanks for listening, and thank you for giving me the space to talk and feel free to open up…

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 5:21pm

  770. 770: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    (((((Hana))))) wow, I admire your courage for sharing that. I have had several major depressive episodes, but I can’t imagine living with it to the extent that you do.

    I used to fret so much about when/if to disclose that I am a recovering alcoholic when I was dating. i learned to allow it to come up as soon as possible naturally. It’s who I am and not everyone can handle it.

    In your situation with Amir, do you feel ashamed of your condition? Is that why you haven’t told him?

    It sounds like there are other complications, but I would encourage you to be honest with Amir about the dysthymia. I think he deserves that. And you might always wonder if you don’t.

    Do you think you cut things off with him because you thought he might be upset, possibly mad, if he found out?

    I think it’s important to learn how to “own”our chronic diseases, not be ashamed, and be open so that we learn a variety of ways people can react to it and realize that, even if others can’t handle it , we learn we are OK anyway. It makes us stronger. The more open I got about my alcoholism and depression, the more people surprised me with their support and love. And people will respect your openness and courage too.

    XO <3

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:15pm

  771. 771: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    It was I don’t want to push myself on you? Many e he said that to make it easier for u also. Just a thought. And it doesn’t matter what u should have done, o r not done. What matters is that if that’s all he said to you how did that make u feel. Personally I hope you are feeling well and t h at you use your experience to be better to yourself.I do find that you can never say the wrong thing to the right man can be seen not from your perspective but his. A good man will love y poo u regardless. He may feel shattered and utterly broken but he will tell you that he loves you. Sound like there were no regrets then so have no n e now. Keep leaning back and back and back. It really doesn’t matter how anyone else feels or the impact it could render in their l their l Iives. From what I understand from this here place is.. get what u need frrom someone and move on, do everything you do just for You…. but somehow this decent resonate with me. I feel …different than that…..

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:24pm

  772. 772: miiranda faithNo Gravatar says:

    I misunderstood most of th our poo post Hanna, please disregard. Everything but “i just feel different” yes I think u should have and personally. .

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 6:32pm

  773. 773: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – got it, yes, thanks for the perspective.

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 7:27pm

  774. 774: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis it’s Romanian

    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 10:57pm

  775. 775: DariaNo Gravatar says:


    Friday, 26 July 2013 @ 11:00pm

  776. 776: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @ Elsie

    girls, do you tweak the feeling msg in some way in other languages? do you find it difficult to find balance between different amount of feminine energy one puts in different languages?

    I feel like in Polish I have to work much harder to express my feelings than in Norwegian. Norwegian is more straight forward in a way.

    I feel like i get more response to what I am saying in Norwegian than in Polish. I feel that my words in Polish do not express what I really feel, like I cannot seem to get it our right.

    I had this problem with Norwegian too at first, but then I found out I need to really outgirl those Vikings here, and now it feels right. I wonder what lesson I have to learn from the problems with my mother tongue.

    Have a beautiful day :)

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 12:37am

  777. 777: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman 714

    Yes, I have noticed the glow that he gets when he asks me about my day, or asks me what I have planned, and I tell him about things I love to do. I can *feel* that talking about what I’m passionate about feels good to him.

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 4:29am

  778. 778: IndigoNo Gravatar says:



    If it were me, I would pour my heart out in an e-mail, tell him what was going on with me, how I felt about it, and my hopes for the future, as well as how I felt about him. But I’m not saying this is for everyone.

    I think only you would know what would be right for you, what would honour you and what you are dealing with best. x

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 4:39am

  779. 779: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Daria, Hug back!

    Thank you WG, you’re so kind to reciprocate your own experiences, what happens when you tell someone of the oppossite sex that you care about your Alcoholism and depression? Have you ever met someone strong enough or loving enough to understand?

    My issue is that Amir once was head over heals in love with me, but I always kept it friendly even though we were lovers too…I started seeing someone else, and he finally gave up because it was too hard for him to stick around. I realized too late that I actually was in love with him too. Anyway. I feel like he isn’t able to be vulnerable enough and he actually said to me “I can’t be the Amir I was back then”, but his actions are sometimes the same… he’s either not feeling the same or he’s scared to let go. Probably not feeling the same because there has been so many things between us since that original time we were together. The issue isn’t so much Amir, it is me, and I feel scared to let him know any more because I don’t want to be hurt anymore than I have. I don’t want to be felt “sorry for”, I want to take care of myself and I don’t feel ready to be in a relationship probably because I don’t think he would understand maybe. I feel so confused, because I know I deserve to be loved and to be in a relationship, but I can’t keep one going. I have gotten a lot better since half a year ago and continue to grow.
    Men in my life have been kind enough…sure, but I find that unless you are married or in a very committed relationship there is no reason to stay with me..

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 4:49am

  780. 780: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    New thread.


    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 4:58am

  781. 781: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Everyone I’ve told has been incredibly supportive. I dated a guy once who said he wasn’t sure if he could be supportive in the way I’d need long-term (he’d had a sister who died from alcoholism) but he was so kind and we stopped dating for unrelated reasons- there was a 14 year age difference that just didn’t mesh well.

    I am, by far, the hardest on and most judgmental towards myself- not surprisingly.

    Hana, I would stop worrying about what is going on in Amir’s head, and stop worrying about possible outcomes. Maybe telling Amir would just be good practice for being vulnerable?

    I hear you on the not wanting people to feel sorry for you. I don’t want to insult or hurt you, but honestly, the less sorry we feel for ourselves, the less we sense it from others. AND it is totally OK to feel sorry for oneself. sO understandable- but just realize where the source of that is. Realizing that is a source of power and healing.

    My disease does not define me as a person. So if I’m not married or in a committed relationship I don’t see it as being because of one aspect of myself- no way!

    In my adopted family and my birth family there are long lines of depression-some of it very serious. In my adopted mom’s brother’s family ( my uncle) he has 12 kids and they have all had crippling depressions throughout adult life – and they are all married (btw- several of them ended up marrying people who also have serious depression).

    I guess what I’m trying to say is just be in the moment with Amir and throw all the what ifs away.


    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 7:12am

  782. 782: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for the link, Zara :-)

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 7:18am

  783. 783: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, thank you hon. I took your advice and wrote this email:

    Dear Amir,

    I’m writing this with a heavy heart, but I feel like I would regret not doing it.  I want to explain the truth about some of the things that have been going on.  When you wrote me back that you feel like we would always be good friends I felt safe to open up about myself.   Which is something I had difficulty for a long time. 

    Half a year ago I started going to Camh, because of some of my complusive behaviour that was affecting a lot of my life obviously.  They diagnosed me with “dysthymia” you could google it to get a better understanding.  I haven’t been able to deal with many things that some other adults find easier to.  One of those areas is mature “relationships”.  Those are probably the hardest for me.  I care about you, and I know you care about me, and that is why I decided to explain to you, but I feel like I’m taking the chance of being not understood or judged because there is a stigma against mental diseases.  Anyway.  I’ve been seeking the best treatment that I could find, and because as you know I am not fond of medication I didn’t want to take any.  But, I’m realizing the more I’m finding it difficult to deal with things in my life, the less power I have to do it all by myself without the help of some medication.  So, last week I told my therapist at Camh that I was ready to do it, and I’ve been on it for a week. My hope is that it gives me a little boost to make me able to grow in the way I want so that I can deal better and make the positive changes and differences in my life. 

    I felt like we were playing cat and mouse, and there were so many things between us that was causing both of us to not let ourselves be truly vulnerable to one another.  And I can understand why, there have been a lot of issues over these two years.   I guess I’m not really asking anything of you other than your understanding.  I also understand that you have your own life and your own choices to make.  I don’t want to be felt “sorry for”, I just want to be understood, accepted and loved for who I am, because I feel that way for myself. 

    I wanted to end things last week because I felt really overwhelmed and scared, terrified that I was going to be hurt again, and I felt like I could not handle any more rejection, and also because I wasn’t feeling safe to come to you and to tell you exactly what is wrong in my life.  

    Anyway, it is all out now in the open.  lol, this is very scary for me to do, but…I figure, I have nothing to lose only to gain, and if I do lose something that is ok, because it may not be meant to be anyway.

    Love,  Hana

    I feel so vulnerable it isn’t funny! But I sent this like at 9am and now it’s almost 5pm. I don’t know if we’ll ever stay connected, but I guess I have to just come to terms with whatever happens, it is hard pill to swallow but alas.

    WG, thank you for opening up and sharing so much, I really appreciate it. Have you found any help in taking medication?


    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 1:51pm

  784. 784: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Miranda Faith 748

    I’m confused about your response to me?

    Saturday, 27 July 2013 @ 8:30pm

  785. 785: sensuouswomanNo Gravatar says:

    I can not express the comfort and affirming affect that circular dating has had on me. As a result of Cding.. I feel more confidant as a woman and at my ability to connect with and attract good men. As a side story to this.. my current bf and I are exclusive. What facilitated this request to be exclusive was the fact that on our online dating profiles we answered differently to a compatibility question. The question was something like “do you date more than one person at a time” and of course my answer was “yes”. Because I circular date and I like to keep my options open (believe me before Rori I never would have felt that way) well my bf answered this question with a “no” and I saw my “yes”. So he asked me about my “yes” and why I would answer yes. So I got to tell him how I like to keep my options open early on in a relationship till I find out how my parter is feeling about the relationship. I told him that a rolling stone gathers no moss (hahaha) and that I wasn’t comfortable allowing the possibility that I might miss meeting the right guy because I was only dating the wrong guy. He immediately asked me to be exclusive… yes circular dating has been very good to me. I am still subscribed to the dating site and will end my subscription at the end of this month… and I still go and look.. he knows this.. and he also won’t be off the site till January when his subscription runs out. The good news is that he knows now that I am not going to waste my time with someone who isn’t interested in me… he is now very attentive to me.

    So ladies circular date… circular date.. it helps so much on your anxiety.. and keeps you from obsessing

    Monday, 5 August 2013 @ 10:49am

  786. 786: LuluNo Gravatar says:

    Rori, my seperated husband who hurt me deeply and left me, but he is very spiritual and whenever I express my feeling about our relationship and he would just say just hand it to God, and he is sure that I will have a good future. But he just continue to messages me checking me out everyday but only ask me out on the weekends sometimes, and sometimes even not message me at all over the weekend. then he would suddenly message me on Monday to say how are you. I’m very frustrated by his behaviour and although I’m focus on myself with different activities and what he does is very confusing, especially he keeps treating me good by buying me little gifts all the time. When we talk about our relationship he would say our energy is different now and not sure about the future but I’m the most important person in his life. He said his love to me is devine but is like a family member.
    I don’t know how to handle this, I dont like that he suddenly ask me out for dinner tomorrow but he was disappeared for 2 days. I said I don’t know and he asked me why. I haven’t replied but if I dont reply seems I’m rude, but if I’m ok to meet him it seems I can meet him whenever he wants. If I don’t meet him it might seems I’m not giving him a chance and he might lose his confident to ask me out again (He knows he hurt me deeply before and afraid to hurt me again, that’s why he is being decisive whether to get back with me or not). This has been repeating for so long. Should I meet him or not and when I should meet him.
    I cannot say we are having a relationship even not holding hands when we go out. I really don’t know the best way to handle this since we are still in the marriage.
    I have used cut contact before for 1 month already and since then our communications have been improved but our situation like this has been for 6 months.
    He seems attached to me emotionally but physically he is not, he is very analytical and tries to make the right decision and I’m trying not to wait for him but doesnt mean I can immediately date with other men.

    Please help

    Sunday, 18 August 2013 @ 7:43am

  787. 787: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Lulu – You may not like this – but the ONLY solution I see for you is to Circular Date. There are many ways to do this – but you have to get a life and go out with other men. At this moment – it makes him feel good to be your FRIEND – and that’s not what you want, is it? Love, Rori

    Sunday, 18 August 2013 @ 4:03pm

  788. 788: LuluNo Gravatar says:

    Rori, thanks and I understand. but should I meet him if he asks me out? He is a person who would try different ways to get my responses and wants to know why I’m not happy etc. and if I don’t reply then I look rude.
    Also he always says he will be happy of whatever decision I make as long as I’m happy.

    Sunday, 18 August 2013 @ 6:06pm

  789. 789: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Lulu – I’m not sure what you want here. Not being available for someone is NOT being “rude”! You have to figure out what makes you happy, and what you want through trial-and-error and using the tools that will help you the most. Meeting him or not meeting him is irrelevant. It will not make him want you or love you more. What will turn every tide is loving YOURSELF more. Love, Rori

    Monday, 19 August 2013 @ 10:19am

  790. 790: JinteyNo Gravatar says:

    When is it the right moment to use the “No Contact rule” or the “feminine energy” to communicate an issue. I like a guy with a bad reputation but who treats me so well. I feel confident, more open and accepted by him but I also feel nervous around him as well due to lack of experience with men and also fear his “bad reputation”. I feel he’s worth taking a chance on so I asked him to be my bf and that saw a good man worth taking a chance, He said that the reputation was true and that maybe their was a small part of his heart was good. He also said that maybe he just wasn’t meant to feel love. I don’t believe this. If he could treat me with such respect, attentiveness and consideration then I have no doubt he can and will find love. I stopped seeing him and have now tried dating, but have found guys that come on too strong too fast and text pests that leave me having to change sim cards. After 7 months he got back in touch saying he was sorry for allienating me and that he missed me. We met up and this time he made me dinner from scratch, was nervous that it wasn’t turning out right, remembered our last conversation and gave me everything that I had asked for with 110% effort. The only problem was I felt so nervous that my body failed to perform as well as last time we met, and this had a reaction to his pleasure. I feel we both try too hard to please each other instead of enjoying the moment. I appologised if i offended him and said I would love to love to meet up and make it up to him. We told each other that we were busy for the next week and he said he would have more time the week after. I’m now doing the “No contact rule” but a part of me what to tell how much I feel moved by his sincerity, his nervousness, remembering small details of what i like and dont like, his giving 110% effort to try and please me etc. Want I want is to choose him to be my lover, to stop feeling nervous around him and just be happy in the moment with him which I always do feel. When is it a good time to say these feelings, or have I blown it and left him with the icky or as Christian Carter calls it the “ewwww feeling” that makes guys run?

    Tuesday, 20 August 2013 @ 12:41pm

  791. 791: JeanNo Gravatar says:

    I just purchased your series last week and have been listening daily. I am keeping a feeling journal. I am starting to circular date and to concentrate on being open, relaxed, and putting down my paddle (sorry, I am a kayaker so I adjusted your boat a little….). My boyfriend of almost 3 years and I had a huge blow up last week. I am trying so hard to have no contact or to let him initiate all contact, but then I feel cold. I have been the one in the relationship to initiate much of it…and it is one of our major problems. He feels like I am running his life. And I just answered my own question. Leave him alone. Don’t try to run the relationship. If it is meant to be he will come back and if he doesn’t, I can’t beat myself up over what could have been. Instead, I have to put all of these tools into practice and the next man to come along I will be able to appreciate him more and maybe things will work out differently. So once again, I am dropping the paddle and will wait for him to pick it up. Or I will float along with the waves and enjoy the scenery. Thank you so much for your videos. So many of the things that have ruined relationships for me are covered in them. I must be an awful lot like you were because most of the time I feel like you were following me around with a hidden camera….


    Wednesday, 21 August 2013 @ 12:38pm

  792. 792: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Jean, Welcome – and Brava to you! You sound wonderful, and I can only say that if I could have the blessed, happy life I have now with the great man I have in my life – I KNOW YOU can! Love, Rori

    Wednesday, 21 August 2013 @ 1:01pm

  793. 793: JinteyNo Gravatar says:

    I feel unheard.
    I read your ebook on the first day of purchase cover to cover, but I still feel I need more information on when is the right time to lean back and when to express feelings. I’ve now cancelled your ebook which is still within the free trail period, as I feel your not the one to help me with my query.

    Wednesday, 21 August 2013 @ 2:20pm

  794. 794: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Jintney I felt ewww reading your comments. Rori’s way is about allowing the man to lead but you seemed to have switched the roles. Also you don’t seem to value yourself very much if after so long with no contact he apologizes, makes dinner for you and you jump into the sack immediately. There is no challenge for him and no reason for him to work to win you. You are handing yourself to him on a silver platter so it will be hard for him to value you. Men value what they have to work for.

    Wednesday, 21 August 2013 @ 3:38pm

  795. 795: JeanNo Gravatar says:

    I have to tell you, I posted about not contacting my boyfriend. I took a deep breath, I unzippered my heart, I put down my paddle and I got back to work. In less then 15 minutes he sent me a goofy text. He texted me later that night to let me know he forgot his charger and wouldn’t be available by phone and would see me the next night. I went to Wal Mart with my daughter and she and I were talking and laughing and young man walked past, said hi, how are you. I replied, I feel good, he smiled and said that is good to hear. At that time I hadn’t consciously opened up, but I was not closed as I normally am. I do have to admit though, that at least for right now, this soul searching, staying open and vulnerable, and feeling is exhausting!

    Thursday, 22 August 2013 @ 8:33am

  796. 796: Nicole317No Gravatar says:

    I’m feeling confused
    As I’ve been learning so much reading these tools
    It feels liberating yet scary and makes me at times peaceful then anxious

    I recently broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years and after a week of no contact after a few months of is trying to “work it out” and him feeling he needed space
    so i let him be . I was at first an emotional disaster but quickly began utilizing the tools rory suggests

    and recently he came up with a reason (a loving one having to do with our moms)
    He expressed his love

    I had not did the “commitment conversastion”
    And after a few very simple exchanges

    I did set my boundaries
    Telling him I am not looking for a boyfirend but rather am ready for a lifetime partner

    He wrote me a note expressing his love for my children
    And several other things
    (All wonderful)
    But not addressing the “lifetime partner”

    So I’ve been open and have the mind set of not being exclusive

    But he continues to email me very sweet messages

    Now how do I respond ? As I’m feeling like I really don’t want to
    Not cause I’m angry or playing hard to get
    I just am not feeling it
    Almost surprised that I’m not feeling elated fr his “crumbs”
    Though I feel like I should absolutely reinforce these small simple kind exchanges with love and appreciation
    But I’m not feeling it

    Why do you think Im feeling this way

    Currently I’m viewing him as a prospect
    And he’s boring me almost

    I feel awful saying it
    After four years of him being the center of my universe

    Maybe I’m just going through the transformation

    What do you suggest I focus on and perhaps help me Interpret what the heck is happening to me

    Just a week ago I would die for a small exchange

    And ask to further the conversastion
    But not feeling it


    Monday, 2 September 2013 @ 4:42pm

  797. 797: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Nicole – BRAVA to YOU! Feeling BORED is EXACTLY what I would hope you’d feel in this situation! It’s exactly the way this works. No pain, no drama – just…boredom, and you fade out from him and Circular Date – and Magic – new man appears who can DO relationship! Love, Rori

    Monday, 2 September 2013 @ 8:25pm

  798. 798: Nicole317No Gravatar says:

    He recently emailed me again
    And it felt good
    And I let him know it
    I believe my issue regarding using the tools as guidance is
    Do I go with my in the moment honest feelings
    As I’m keeping him a prospect as a lifetime partner?
    Realize he did recently profess his love for me telling me I was his soul mate
    But then he retreated
    Knowing what I know now
    I realize my energy made him retreat
    And withdraw

    What resonated Alot to me was when tori says
    ” your fear of intimacy and keeps his fear of commitment alive”

    This was so me

    So if I feel he is worthy of being my lifetime partner
    During this period of seperTion

    Do I apply the 100 percent rule of being open and receiving his love and using feeling messages
    Or do I address the commitment conversastion again
    My gut is telling me when he recently professed his love with an put pour of emotion that was his ” falling”
    I just wasn’t open to Receive

    But I am now and am this far using these tools to communicate

    Issue is. It’s all email
    We don’t live together
    And I’m applying the let him take the oats
    And if he wishes to communicate via writing I am just taking his lead while staying one and on my bridge
    And without trying to get in his head
    Though it feels difficult to sence our energy without hearing his voice
    Or being in Vivo
    Though I sence no urgency to have to be in person


    Tuesday, 3 September 2013 @ 6:46am

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