Okay! Today I am feeling this throw-caution-to-the-wind feeling that is telling me this: why not just totally give in to TN man being a FRIEND. Drop the feeling messages, just treat him like a friend, therefore giving up on the idea of him being more than a friend and then I won’t be disappointed. Accept him as a friend. Tell him anything and everything I want to, just like a real friend. Give up hoping for more. Because right now I can’t totally be FRIENDS with him because I am holding back that part of my heart that wants it to be more. What do you think??? Thanks!
I support you wholeheartedly with this Lucy…
Being open, expecting nothing leaves you available for all kinds of surprises from all kinds of unlikely sources.
xxoo
Here’s my question: You have said that men come and go. I’ve seen this in my own life numerous times. They come and go, and then come back.
My question is, how do I respond when one comes back? Is it as easy as using feeling messages when he returns?
If I am feeling upset that he left, it doesn’t feel appropriate to share those feelings with him, especially if he’s been gone for a while (2 weeks or more). But to behave like everything is hunky-dorey between us also feels inauthentic.
And although circular dating does lessen the feelings of upset, it doesn’t always make them go away altogether.
Where’s the balance? Does there need to be a balance?
I have been receiving your emails for a short time now and most defintely agree with your advice and new approach to a frustrating situation.
My situation however is allot harder to remedy; he lives in Colorado & I live in Florida.
I just returned last night from a weekend with him in Colorado.
It just happened that the timing worked out for me to travel this particular weekend but by far it was not a Valentine weekend that was planned. Of course this morning I receive an email from him saying “It was a nice weekend and that he has lots of work ahead of him that he needs to focus on and let’s just simply be in the moment with the trip.” Basically he (David) just reverted back to his “keeping this casual, no commitment, no expectations” mindset after even discussing potential trips yesterday (face-to-face). In all honesty, I “felt” him allow himself to get close over the weekend, I also saw something different in his eyes, they seemed softer and less gaurded.
I guess I have just seen this same old scene between him and I over and over again, that I simply do not even know how to feel or react anymore. Could your program help a long distance situation? Do I stay non-reactive to his email this morning?
Well, my question is did i bail too quickly? My guy and I were friends for two years and just decided to date in Jan. Now we are broken up. We were doing great and then I went back to my old ways. Being anxious, demanding, moody, and pressuring. It pushed him away and he started withdrawing. And as my usual thing I decided that if he wasnt going to be around then i would end it before he did. Now i feel like i made a huge mistake. Like i jumped too soon and messed everything up. Is there a chance that I could get things back or should I just deal and go on using this experience as a lesson?
Daria, thank you for your response. I wish I could feel excitement and upset at the same time, but I can’t.
I feel like if I happen to be in a happy mood when he calls, I will be letting him off the hook for bad behavior, in essence communicating to him that it’s OK with me for him to leave (which it’s not).
But if am upset with him when he calls, I fear that he won’t want to approach me again. I know I wouldn’t want to be close to someone whose first communication with me in a long time was one with upset feelings.
My authentic self feels upset. But I feel that communicating that feeling outside of an intimate relationship is inappropriate… and if he’s been gone for 2 weeks or more, I feel the intimacy is greatly reduced – if not gone – and needs to be built back up.
Alisa, were you exclusive with him? I feel much more moody, anxious, and demanding when I am not circular dating because I have blindly handed over my future to being chosen BY a man who could potentially string me along forever until he shows me otherwise. An exclusive dating relationship in this context should make any woman moody, anxious, and demanding!
If this is the case, you could tell him you feel sad about having acting that way, and you realize that you will feel moody, anxious, and demanding as long as you are in an exclusive situation in which you feel unsure of whether it will offer you the happily ever after you want. Let him know you feel bad about not realizing this earlier, and that you are going to be accepting offers for dates from other men until someone comes along and REALLY takes you off the market.
Please start circular dating immediately if you haven’t already.
I’m not the best at the no girlfriend speech so maybe the other ladies here or Rori can help me tweak this right…
i luv u and your moody needy demanding feelings, girl!
oh yeah, i forgot to mention you can tell him you still feel open to dating him, but you don’t want to feel moody and anxious or demanding anymore. Then ask him “what do you think?”
Daria – what you said in that last comment is where I get hung up. Like, if I tell TN man what I’m really feeling: “I feel sad that we haven’t met yet” -or- what I’m REALLY feeling: “I feel sad that you’re not rushing up here because you can’t stand another minute of not being with me” — then isn’t that Leaning Forward even though it’s a Feeling Message? Isn’t it pressuring him, pursuing him, even though it is a Feeling Message?? Isn’t it the same kind of thing as saying “I love you” first???
I said this to a man before: “I feel so much love for you right now!” and it was true and felt good to say.
The thing with TN man is, he’s not stepping up right now.
No it’s not leaning forward to tell him what you’re REALLY feeling.
And yes he may feel pressured, which he already does probably, because he can FEEL on a gut level what you desire and he hasn’t stepped up to give it to you.
I would say this, mostly to avoid the pressure of the YOU’s :
“I feel sad. I want a man that I feel close to like I do with you to rush up here because he can’t stand another minute of not being with me. And that hasn’t happened and I’m feeling bad. What do you think?”
hey lucy i know your comment isn’t directed toward me but it looks to me like your REALLY feeling message of sad that he is not rushing up there because he can’t stand another minute not being with you is actually a feeling message AND a don’t want statement.
So: I FEEL sad we haven’t met yet, and I DON’T WANT to hang around waiting for a man who doesn’t want to see me as soon as possible.”
That feels yucky, desperate, whatever. And U don’t want to feel that way. You need to feel desired, important, special, whatever.
Thanks Daria and Dorothea. This part: “And yes he may feel pressured, which he already does probably, because he can FEEL on a gut level what you desire and he hasn’t stepped up to give it to you.” What about situations where a girl and guy eventually find out that they have each been pining for the other but didn’t say anything b/c they didn’t think the feeling was mutual? I have seen that happen a lot (and, in fact, TN man said that’s what happened with his last relationship). So, isn’t it therefore possible that he does NOT realize how I feel?
Sure it’s possible. But what he does or does not do or know is not the point here. How you feel and what you don’t want are what’s important.
Please always ask yourself how YOU feel first, before wondering if he is just thinking this or that, or going through this or that, or not even realizing this or that.
For example, saying “i’m feeling sad that YOU haven’t rushed up here to see me” is about what HE’S doing. Expressing that you DON’T WANT that, on the other hand, is about YOU. it’s clear, it lets him know where you’re at, and it gives him the opportunity to say something about it when you ask him what he thinks.
This is a little trickier: the idea is not to be attached to the outcome either. Because you are telling him how you feel so as to honor your feelings (your truth!) and not so much to control what he does.
I feel terrible right now, though, because I feel like my explanations aren’t very good and I might be confusing. Love to you!
How about: “I feel sad that we haven’t met yet. I don’t want to keep feeling curious about what it would be like to be with you. What do you think?”
I know I can’t be attached to the outcome, and it doesn’t matter how I think he will respond, but he would probably say something like: “Sit with that sad feeling, let yourself feel it fully without judging it, labeling it, or telling yourself stories about it; accept and embrace your sadness.” Lol. *sigh*
Really??!! You would feel furious?! It is really what I would expect from him because he is all about present moment awareness and all that — sort of hindu type stuff where the only real happiness comes from letting go of desiring what we don’t have and completely accepting what IS.
No, I don’t want to keep feeling curious. I feel curious so much of the time about so many things that, for me, it can become a really uncomfortable feeling when my curiosity is not satisfied!! I like feeling curious, but I don’t like feeling curious for SIX MONTHS about being with a guy!
My question is this: What exactly are you getting out of this relationship that works for you and causes you to want to stay in it? Would you feel the same way IF HE NEVER STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE AND YOU MET HIM? I mean are you willing to continue this just as it is without ever meeting him and that be ok with you? Or is this really something you want to have move forward?
I am not you, but if this were me I would be just getting really frustrated as hell at him being so passive and seeming like he really cares, but then doesn’t want to follow through or take it anywhere.
For me, either we meet or it’s forget it. Relationships are about movement. They either go froward or backward. The ones that stand still to me are in reality moving backward because without forward motion I feel like you got nothin. Just my two cents. Maybe not your deal at all.
Lucy: That would really be his response? If a man said that to me in response to what you just wrote, I’d probably laugh and say “Thank you Dr. Phil. I feel amused. I also feel a little bored ‘sitting with my feelings’ right now. I think I’ll get a pedicure instead.”
This guy isn’t leaning forward. It might feel good to say this one time but if he doesn’t start rowing, I wouldn’t feel good “waiting” anymore.
Lucy: The only way for anyone to know how you feel is for you to EXPRESS how you feel. Sounds simple, and yet we all know that it can be very, very difficult.
I love how Daria so beautifully wrote above how expressing the feeling is about YOU. :~D
To be authentic is to speak what is true for you in that moment. It is possible to go back and say “Yesterday, I felt…” and often times it is easier to start there.
Oooh, here is the answer to your question, TG. What Orna just wrote on another thread: “It was then that I realized I had “grown up” too much. I had abandoned the little girl inside of me. Cultivating that relationship has been the most rewarding of all because it allowed me to step into all of who I can be.”
What I get out of my relationship with him is that we play like little kids. Early on he told me that I am so much like a little girl, and that it is interesting because he is so much like a little boy. The relationship is very playful and fun and loving and interesting. He is extremely smart and fun at the same time, which I adore. We learn a lot from each other too.
I recently met someone that I like, on a social sports trip away and I have a major crush!
I feel literally like an awkward boy who likes a girl and have done evrything silly like make jokes and hang around the guy ( although I feel really proud I haven’t called him up etc.)
I feel like I have gone back wards in what I have been learning!! I have been feeling more confident learning all the tools, etc, have even left a toxic relationship….how did i come to this? how do you know if a guy likes you? i feel so embarassed asking this!!
I mean, if they like you they will try to get close to you, no?
what if i have been giving out all these ‘pushing away’ signals by mistake and it’s too late?!
Siena follow your heart, as Bob Grant says a man can’t fight with your heart, the feelings you carry in your heart is your truth. If you say nothing then you will begin to resent him and possibly explode that resentment all over him at some point.
You have to be brave, yes there is a huge possibility that he may stop coming around but honestly if he’s narely barely their anyways your not really missing out on much.
If I had to address how I felt, I would say something along the lines of…
I feel excited to hear from you but after several weeks of no communication I feel sad, friendship and connecting on a regular is important to me and when I don’t hear from people after a certain amount of time I lose interest in rebuilding the connection, I don’t take men seriously that come in and out of my life.
The ball is in his court, he may decide he can only be around every 2 weeks or longer and decide to go away for good, that’s the risk you take, so you either address it or do things on his terms, I myself decided to stop doing things on his term and the relationship dissolved, I wasn’t sad about it at all, I think it’s a give and take type thing be it friendship or a full on relationship, compromise is important to me and we all deserve to get what we want.
It’s just a thought…me thinking out loud, tell me how that makes you feel.
I have a question about how much we tell our current partners about our ex partners?
I used to be in a very abusive relationship. To put it briefly, this man assaulted me, choked me unconcious, broke my arm, threatened to kill me (and was certainly capable of it), stalked me and was eventually found guilty and put on an intensive supervision order (woefully inadequate sentence but most of the assaults were not proveable in court due to me and him being the only witnesses).
I was still going through the court process when I met my current partner. (It had taken 18 months). The ex partner is not in my life in any way and as I have moved, changed numbers, changed vehicles, cannot ever find me (and I believe he has moved on and lost interest, thank God). My BF has never prev wanted to hear about the details of that rel and I certainly did not want to re-live that trauma by discussing it with him.
But lately (we live together and have been together 2 1/2 years now) he has been throwing in offhand remarks and alluding to doubting my version of events. Doubting that it could have been as bad as I made out. Questioning why I remained in an abusive rel (no easy answer – anyone who has been in my shoes knows that)
Hearing those comments feel like I am being stabbed in the stomach (and I have told him that). But how can I expect him to understand if I have never told him the full story.
So – my question is – do I tell him everything? Do I lay myself bare and risk him feeling differently about me (i feel so afraid that he will judge me – as I have judged myself). Am I keeping a wall around me by not disclosing all this or am I right to keep it from him?
Chrissy
“I feel excited to hear from you but after several weeks of no communication I feel sad, friendship and connecting on a regular is important to me and when I don’t hear from people after a certain amount of time I lose interest in rebuilding the connection, I don’t take men seriously that come in and out of my life.”
I LOVE THIS! This is exactly what I was looking for to explain to one man who seems to think it’s normal to expect exclusivity with contact only every couple of weeks. Thank you!
Marla, Welcome, and you’re not going to like this – don’t read if you’re not sure you want to. Nothing is happening here. He told you what he feels is the truth – believe him. He’s casual, no commitment, no expectations. Get out of there, please, and start dating men who are actually interested in serious, committed, and forever. Love, Rori
You know Chrissy your boyfriend is showing signs he’s lost respect somewhere along the way and it’s turning really toxic for the both of you. I would encourage you to stop discussing your past, it’s done, it’s over and I sense your new beau is very uncomfortable with your past life situation. If you need to vent maybe consider getting some kind of counseling to help you through the healing process, you can’t really expect a man that isn’t abusive to understand what you went through.
I don’t feel disclosing something so volatile will help you connect with him as thus it’s actually pulling you 2 apart. Maybe you need to get clear about boundaries first, get clear about why you chose that relationship in the first place so you can fully explain yourself to him if you have to.
I’m not sure why it’s something you would want to re-live in your current situation and if you have to re-live it wouldn’t it be easier to get some help with how to do that before actually exposing yourself in such a vulnerable way.
Your welcome Lori, you have no idea how long I had to play around with my thoughts regarding this type of situation, I still juggle around with it and tweak it as to fit the situation, it’s hard to call a man on his behavior when he’s just a friend, or if he was once interested and lost interest etc etc etc, it can feel really complicated but I didn’t let it stop me from going there d:
Kay
Thank you for responding but wow, your post made me feel really triggered! Why do you think our rel has gotten toxic or that he has lost respect? You saying that made me feel both surprised and a little angry. But I am reminding myself that you are trying to help and can only go on your interpretation of what is written.
Let me clarify though – The past has not been getting discussed. Two and a half years have gone by without mention of it. Recently we ran into someone who knew me then, that was the gateway into him bringing up the topic (perhaps I should have mentioned that in the post) My BF was given brief details when i first met him as I was still going through the criminal court case hearings. I dont feel the need to vent. And rest assured, I got the appropriate counselling at the time and was still getting counselling when I met my BF.
I am also taking on board your comment regarding why I chose that relationship. Rori mentions in one of her CDs about “hiring someone to beat yourself up” and I now know that is exactly what I did (not excusing him in anyway but I chose to be there).
My main reason for considering giving him all the facts is to clear up any misconceptions he may have. When you only have brief outlines, your imagination tends to fill in the blanks and lead you off on a completely wrong tangent and I believe my original efforts to both protect him and me from the full truth has backfired. If I am to be brutally honest with myself, I also want to make sure he is not judging me. Definitely an element of self-interest here I guess.
Rori, I would be extremely grateful if you are able to suggest anything here?
Thanks Chrissy
Sasha J, you’ll know he is interested when he calls you and asks for a date with you did he ask for you number? if he likes you , he will ask , men move mountains in the mean time just continue circular dating , whatever that means to you.
Chrissy, start with your feelings. you could even start with yourself. i feel angry that someone doesn’t believe me and that feels like a lump in my throat and burning behind my eyes and clenched teeth. or i feel hateful toward myself for letting a man hurt me so bad in the past. just whatever your feelings are, FEEL THEM in you, all through your body. love them. tell your feelings you love them. tell yourself you love you.
and feeling messages with him: it feels like the bad stuff from my last relationship is still hovering over me and you and that feels terrible. I feel so appreciative that you have let me push it aside all this time and i don’t want to have this be a vague thing that we dance around forever, and i definitely don’t want there to be suspicion or doubt between us. it would feel like great relief to just get it all out in the open one time. what do you think?
Lucy, I feel bored, I want to feel courted and dating. I dont want an online imaginary relationship. What do you think? He says; uuh, Lucy says: yeah I love myself enough to know that I want to date/be courted in person (add emoticon here) , I dont want an AN IMAGINARY RELATIONSHIP what do you think? TN MAN says : huh? Lucy adds snoring emoticon then “appears offline” then do some online research or something that interests you.
Chrissy I would say if it was me – looks around – I feel judged, I know I am judging myself harshly, I do take responsibility for allowing him to treat me that way, I’m “not there” anymore. I’m hiring him (new man) to love me as I love myself
I feel so relieved to know that you are no longer in that terrible situation. You did the right thing!
Chrissy, if you want to go all rockstar just look him square in the eyes when or if he ever brings it up again and tell him exactly that, this might trigger more feelings in you (in the case that he responds in a way your not liking or feeling comfortable with , you may start to feel vulnerable maybe even cry) maybe more than you’d like,in that case go take a nice bath or something, give yourself a hug works for me. Sometimes I have to lay down on the sofa when I talk and relax my body then look at him and speak my truth.
Dorothea – what can i say in reply to you but Wow! Your suggestion is so spot on and has so perfectly captured my feelings. Thank you.
Tina – thank you too, for both your reply and your relief. I love that you say I have hired my new man to love me as I love myself
I actually feel grateful to have gone through that experience, as awful as it was. (mind you, I wish I could have learnt in an easier way!)
That man was the biggest messenger in my life and I feel glad for those messages and the personal growth it resulted in. It allowed me to feel compassion for other women in that situation where I had not been able to before (I am ashamed to admit I judged them) and it allowed me to finally appreciate my own worth and beauty.
Thank you again!
xx
I feel sad about your story with the abusive ex man.
In my experience-proved by me and by other women- the new men want to know about your ex men. And if you tell them that they treated you badly, yes, at that point they will be sorry for you, but at some subconscious level, they will “store”it in their mind and they will treat you badly. Yes, it is true.
I read about it some years ago and I realized it was true.
And in new relationships I started to lye that the ex treated me like a queen. And what happened? Every new man treated me like a queen, and continue to.
So now I can tell new men that I was treated like a queen.
I knowt that if you share with new men how you were treated, you give him the permission to do the same.
Right now, the best answer about the previous story for me is: I am lucky to have had the true love feel uncomfortable to discuss the people who were important to me with anyone else. Sorry. It is my past and my privacy. But the story is completely over, so I do not want to come back to it.
I was admired about this answer. The guys -with this answer-find me very attractive,because I do not speak negatively about the people from my past.
And they find me intriguing because they do not know . And they treat me well. If they come back asking me I reply: it was a nice story, but it is completely over. And I change the topic. I ask about him.
I agree with Turtle Girl. As for me and my personal stories telling the man that you miss him is a way of leaning forward and will push him away. if you have your great life, you won’t sit and feeling sad that he does not show up. He will show up by himself. If he does not rush up to see you, he does not want to.
What I would do, as Rori recommended, I would circular date and when he contacts you , I would share with him the feelings like that “I feel excited, so many people outside”. ” I feel delighted, so much snow”. Or something what is not about the relationship. Share your very short messages with him about your great, busy life.
If you share with the man that you want to see him, it is the way of pushing him away. He will want to come with you but not when you ask him. He will do it by himself if he is interested enough.
He will be intrigued when you do not really care. You do not have to pretend anything, you have your great life, busy with exciting things. And share this one.
If you share with him the feelings about that you miss him, he will probably treat you like a doormat.
And you know the needy, clingy people are not attractive.
Dear Chrissy, sorry, mistake at the end of the post: I ask about him, but not about his ex-women. I ask about other things: “Did you see a nice movie recently?” Something like that. Something unimportant, nothing intense.
Hi Rori…I’m feeling confused and a bit self-protective of myself because I’m feeling triggered. I feel I really need your expert opinion, based on your experience. Overall, are men in their 40′s who have NEVER been married usually unable to commit? Thanks
Chrissy per your post I was under the assumption you had been dealing with this issue off and on through out your relationship with your new boyfriend, now that you have given more details I can clearly see this was something that was brought up due to certain circumstances and not something you have been repeatedly dealing with through out your entire relationship, thanks for clarifying by adding details and I apologize for triggering any negative emotions that may have arisen by my responses to your original post.
Kate I have experienced so many men in there 40′s say they have no desire to marry, don’t see a reason for it, staunch against it.
IMO be it 25 or 45 if marriage is something a woman wants and she meet a man that doesn’t want marriage maybe that would be considered a deal breaker, definitely get out there and circular date to keep your options open so you won’t feel like your waiting because he’s stalling.
Chrissy,
I feel so much love from your reply to me. My abusive ex was my biggest messenger, too. I feel so glad I can offer you my insight. It makes me feel powerful instead of victimized. Love u!
I have a dilema I have no idea how to figure out. My husband have been together 4 years and married for 2, its been a rollercoaster from the day we got married. I have caught him secretly talking to other women from his past, posting on dating sites and the like. When I confronted him he denied it and then when i proved that I knew what was going on he made it my fault for “snooping”. For the last 6 months he has been distancing himself further and further from me. Everytime we try to talk it ends up worse. He informed me about a month ago that he hates being married to me and has since he said I do and that he never wanted to get married. That being married makes him miserable and he doesnt like being “shackled” but he will never divorse me because he doesnt want the title of being divorsed. There is no physical contact between us anymore and I never hear I love you unless I say it first. He says that hes past his prime (hes only 31) and just doesnt want sex anymore and that my stretch marks turn him off (really you can barely see them). Any time I try to talk to him about anything even the weather all I get is “I dont care”.
We used to be sooooo close and in love and I dont know what happened. The wedding was exactly how he asked me to plan it, I dont keep him from doing anything, Im not jelous or controling and Im not lazy. I love him and I just want to make it work and be back where we were before. We tried counceling but that made it ten times worse. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kay, thanks for your response. I read it yesterday and felt panic rise up into my throat at the thought of saying something so direct. So I sat with it a while and it revealed to me some fears that I have that I need to take care of… thank you for responding!
I love the Bob Grant quote, “a man can’t fight with your heart, the feelings you carry in your heart is your truth.” I love Bob Grant, but even his writings didn’t make 100% sense to me until I found Rori.
Wow, Stacy – Welcome, and I would so like to help you. I don’t know what’s gone wrong here, and it would take more details to find out and fix it (if it IS fixable). He is very clear that he’s unhappy, but we don’t know if this is all coming from him (perhaps there’s another woman…) or if there’s anything you can actually do that will shift things. I’m certain there’s a lot of anger being stuffed down, by both of you. I’m curious what about the counselor made things worse? Can you write more? I’m going to put together a small group (6-8 women) phone coaching session – perhaps a series if it goes well – so if private phone coaching with me or one of the coaches here is not possible for you – perhaps that would work. When sex and physical affection disappear – you’re in crisis….I hope you have at least my ebook, Have The Relationship You Want – let me know how you’re using the basic Tools, how you’re using Feeling Messages, how you’re speaking to him, how you’re Circular Dating (essential here). There’s a lot you can do to get the underlying problem out in the open to be healed – or at least so you can get clear on what’s happening. Love, Rori
Thank you for comments about telling men about your past. I had never thought of it this way. But upon reflection I think you may be spot on. Every time I tell a man something about how I was treated by other men, they use that against me sooner or later. If I told them that a past lover was cold and unresponsive, then bingo they go cold on me. If I tell them I was abused verbally, they soon become verbally abusive. If I tell them I was betrayed and cheated don-they betray me and cheat.
I have come to believe that discussing my past lovers with any man could be a mistake. I don’t want to tell them anything any more.
This ends up being a big dilemma for me though. My souls desire is to have a lover/friend that I know completely and want them to know me. And you can’t do that if they don’t know your past. I want to be able to fell totally safe with a man that I can tell anything too. But obviously if I tell them about ex lover who was abusive and then current lover becomes that way, then he is not a safe man to be with. This kind of stuff makes me crazy and I just want to scream……………
So many questions running through my head. . guess I’ll start with the most recent situation. The question is how do i draw the line and stop allowing myself to be treated less than the best thing in his life? We met on a popular hook-up site in October that i joined for the heck of it- with no intentions of getting involued with anybody. I was lonely and in pain from going through divorce. . a whole story 29 years long that I’ll save for another time. . . So i found a guy 30 miles from me- we talked- he wanted to meet- i didnt- at first. We exchanged phone numbers and the plans to meet up were in motion for 2 weeks before we did. It was not love at first sight for me and I was so nervous and SCARED! I wanted to run for the hills! I had not done this kind of ‘date’ before- nevermind dating at all since i cant remember when! I really didnt think i wanted to see him again but the short story is i was falling hard. Let me get to the problem: i am not a jealous person but i feel it with him! And i dont know why and i Hate it! He met other girls on that website before me- couple hundred! he isnt even a great looking guy but has his best picture on there and all the girls act stupid with their comments, messages. send pictures- dirty class-less behavior.! and my man thinks its cute and flattering. he has backed off some but not enough for me. i have told him i dont like it and tried other ways of handling it but i still feel hurt. yes he has told me he wants only me. . .and has brought up futurd plans, etc. here is the latest kick in the teeth: Valentines day i had to ask him if he sent me an ecard on that website. then he did later and i knew hed have a ton in his email from the pirrhanas. Yesterday i stumbled on (i do not snoop) to a comment from an ex of his thanking him for the Valentines card and some other manipulative b.s. he had not seen it and i read it to him and blew up telling him, among other things, “DO NOT PLAY ME!” more than once. After a ‘storm’ and him having the nerve to blow up we resolved it enough to get a bit of peace. but it is not resolved within me. we are together today and off and on i’ve been crying. i told him how i felt, what i want and dmt want. but how do i move past this and get back the joy we had?
It took me YEARS to talk about my abusive relationship with anyone new in my life. Now I share that experience with the world so I can empower other women.
I completely understand why you had not shared early on in your current relationship, however (you may not like this), your hesitation to share now, and your worry that he may judge you tips me off to believe that you still continue to judge yourself for having been in that situation.
So the relationship with this man is really secondary. In my humble opinion, it seems there is still work to do around these past events in your relationship with yourself.
I was dating a guy 6 month ago and I feel I fell in love with him. But recently he came to me and told me that he wasn’t that into me and he just want to be friend. I stopped to call him or text him. But there is still one project that we worked together that has to done soon. I have to contact with him to follow up the process. Then it looks like we become close again. But I know it is not. I can feel he is still not there. But he keeps calling me and texting me. He requested to spend Valentain’s Day with me and took me to a very expensive restarant. What he is doing? What should I do? I want to move on my life but it’s so hard because I am still interested in him…
I’ve been reading your materials as well as soaking in the Modern Siren program Rory, and they have been so valuable.
Last year I had several very significant men enter my life, all who claimed to have strong feelings for me but then did a 180. I moved to another state to be with a man who professed his love and commitment, only to totally change his behavior once we moved in together (all his idea). He blamed me for everything, one of my flaws including not being “thin enough” for him-he said he “can’t help what he’s attracted to,” and I was “already on the heavier side of what he goes for.” At that time I was an active 140, 5’6″.
Nevertheless, I stuck it through a rough transition,
him dumping me only after a month of being out in this new city, where I didn’t know anyone, and during the xmas holidays. I decided within myself that I moved here for a purpose besides him,
and even though I was jobless and penniless I’d trust the Universe has something great in store.
And I have, made some new friends, traveled a few times, gotten my bearings. Most of all my sense of purpose has gotten stronger, as well as my boundaries of what I will and won’t put up with.
The pain of that first break up is what made me pursue learning more about what men think, and how to communicate- because I noticed that these men who thought of themselves as so “spiritual” and transcendental, they didn’t seem less afraid or act differently than the conditioned responses most if not all men have.
Since then, I had two more significant men come into my life.
In the past few months things have really started to turn towards the positive financially, and on all levels really. I’ve been gearing myself up for circular dating,
but my stumbling block is that I don’t have a car.
I work from home and don’t get out that much. I’m not completely isolated and still manage, but for my own standards I feel isolation. I can get a few errands and things done through buses and help from friends, but it’s terribly inconvenient, it takes 2 hours to get somewhere that is a fifteen minute drive. I can’t imagine being out with some guy on a first date and having him drive me home when I just met him- it would feel unsafe and uncomfortable. And I also don’t imagine myself taking a bus at 11 at night in the cold.
I am still saving money, and I feel trapped and not as free to go where I choose, when I want to.
So, there is this idea I have, that I can’t be in a relationship until I have this taken care of.
And here’s the thing- a guy I was involved with last year is possibly coming back around. And I’m like, “wait, I don’t have a car yet!” I know, it sounds silly even as I write this. But I guess it represents freedom and independence for me.
So, this guy coming around, the car issue, circular dating, they all seem connected.
I’m not sure what I want with him, that seems to fluctuate. But I do know that the last time we talked, it felt REALLY good, I felt so relaxed with him, more than ever before. This is a man who said he was in love with me, and then also said he was confused a few weeks later and needed time and space. That was months ago and I won’t tell the whole long story here. But I told myself if he ever came back, I’d possibly be willing to give him another chance, but only if I was circular dating. But I can’t quite do that yet, at least not in a way that feels really good to me! I’m afraid that if I start hanging out with him, in my situation, I don’t have a ‘high degree of difficulty.’
He asked me to spend time this weekend, and I did say yes, but now I’m feeling torn.
I’ve also gained ten pounds and feel icky about that.
Now, I’ve still done my best in my situation, went to a party last week and flirted with several men, and many of them were telling me how beautiful I looked.
And I don’t mean to sound complaining, I appreciate all that my life brings and how things are.
I do still have feelings for this man and I’m afraid
that he’s coming in before I’m able to show up as my best self.
Any advice?
Confidence booster before the weekend, or should I postpone?
I love this forum because it gives us the opportunity to seek so many perspectives! And the support that radiates from the screen feels so tangible. Almost like the person on the other end of the post is reaching out to hug me xx
Soignee – you raise some very valid points and I like your take on my situation, thank you.
Kay – you responded as per the words on the page and your response was honest and heartfelt. I forgot that people dont know me and extra details are pretty important to properly convey my message. I hold absolutely no hard feelings but I feel so appreciative of your apology, thank you xx
Dorothea – you are so very welcome! Much love back at you! xx
Orna – wow. You are spot on. Even thinking about telling my man about this has re-opened a door I believed to be closed (but if it was truly that closed, surely I could not have opened it that easily hmmm?). I typed out the entirety of my experience, got it out of my body and onto paper and the disgust and judgement that I felt towards myself while I was doing it felt awful. On a rational level I can understand and forgive myself (and certainly my heart is full of compassion and understanding for anyone else in those circumstances) but on a molecular, soul deep level there still remains some shame and I definitely will work on that.
And yes I want to be able to be straightforward about it, to attach no blame. To say, yep, this was me, this happened but I do not feel embarassed, just grateful if my message helps anyone else.
Thank you all so much. I feel so embraced and so supported xx
Hi ladies,
I had an interesting moment the other day, and i felt compelled to post about it…at the comedy club, my favorite comic is in town, and I was all open and exuberant around him and it felt good and natural cause I like him. I often feel crummy cause I feel decidedly turned off by most men. But I really like him and felt all glowy, and it was very easy for me to be all nice. It turns out that he’s married, but there was good appreciative (and appropriate) communication between us – makes me think that with the right guy, I will naturally be open and warm and inviting. Is this an incorrect belief?
@ Soignée : sorry to interupt this, but I feel the words “Did you see a nice movie recently?” sounds like what in sherry agrov’s book. I read that books before, well its not working on me. You cant hide the feelings inside U when its start kicking in, and you blocked it and changed topic. sooner it will come back again and even stronger. I love all Rori’s tool, its like so into “me” and so easy cos its all already inside me, and I don’t have to pretend to be bitch or someone else like they asked me to do.
Rori you are powerful. Love ya!!!
has anyone ever encountered this feeling?
You don’t care about the guy, enjoying your own life. and following your feelings. Sometimes forgot him, sometimes feel weird why i slept with him, or miss him etc or just plain nothing but without thinking or imagining suddenly you can feel his energy when you are listening to a song or doing something or can feel his presence, and can feel how he feels too XD and it feels so good without the feelings want to do something with that. just feel so good. is it mean I am in love or is there something else? i am sure its not Obssessed
I just wanted to share a little experience: a couple of days ago i was feeling very angry and helpless in respect to all the things i cannot change in my life, then suddenly i tried to change this intense feeling of anger and so i thought: “Wow, there’s so much anger in me, so much force, i am a goddess of FIRE!” And all the sudden i felt a whole lot better about myself and empowered. I just wanted to ask if this is the “riffing” Rori is talking about. I am not a native English speaker so i’m not quite sure if i got the idea right Thanks!
I feel confused, worried, and a bit sad. About 6 months ago I bought Rori’s e-book, the “Reconnect” CD’s and “Modern Siren” DVD’s. I listen to them and watch them every free moment I have trying to absorb the skills and tools. I try to practice them everyday.
I’ve “run off” three men in these last 6 months. I mean, things always feel like they start off great, then poof! One of the guys I had been seeing on and off for a year. He told me a couple of months ago how much he loved me, hated not being around me, and wanted this to work. (Even though he didn’t admit to it, I know he felt a change in me.) Well, he poofed and is now dating someone else. I feel rejected and defeated.
I keep wondering if I’m doing something wrong, or if maybe I’ve just been attracting toxic men in the past, but with the tools I’ve learned I’m weeding them out? Has anyone else experienced this?
I feel scared, because I just put my online profile back up. That whole process feels overwhelming at times.
I feel needy and embarrassed asking these questions.
Poor dear (sincerely)– Did you ask you’re “loving”
husband every time he expresses that he doesn’t want to be married and never wanted to: “Then why did you?’ “Why did you marrry me?” Let him take his time to answer, and require one. I agree with
Rori about you dating or at least spending time around /flirting with other men…like he does with other women. What an ass, just had to say it.
Terry, I love your questions and feel sad that you feel needy coming here. What does that make all of us with our questions and comments then, woman? hehehe.
I feel curious what specifically you feel ran these men off as you say..?
I feel you girl! I struggle with the same thoughts and feelings. In my life, when I start to feel like it sounds like you do now, it usually comes down to the fact that I’m not taking good enough care of myself. Not loving myself enough.
I hear you blaming yourself for “running the men off”. I do the same thing. But you know what? The man who sticks won’t be run off that easily. It sounds like you’re a beautiful person, and these men were a little “easy come, easy go”. This is NOT you – this is life!
When I start to have those sad and desperate thoughts (like, “will I ever get this right!?”), I do one or more of these things. Perhaps one will resonate with you:
1) I take myself on a date. I love the beach and sunshine, so that’s where I go. I observe nature, have fun with my dog, etc.
2) I write down a “gratitude list” and write everything that HAS gone right in my life.
3) I go to a quiet place and pray/meditate. Doing this usually brings me back to center better than anything else.
Doing one or all of those things for me fills me with love, and keeps the loneliness and desperation at bay.
I guess the bottom line is, no man can fill those voids. You have to do that yourself. A man can enrich your life and help you to find more love than you ever thought possible, but the ‘voids’ are for you to take care of… not him.
In my own experience it takes PRACTICE with these new tools and shifting your behavior. As you shift who you attract will shift as well as who you are attracted to.
Sometimes there is a “purging” so to speak. Pay attention to any patterns that you can identify from your past relationships. If these new men show up and “run off” it may be because they are from your old pattern. The clue for you that you are moving forward is that the time for you to move through the old pattern is getting shorter and shorter. Soon it won’t exist at all and you’ve moved on to another level, another way of behaving that serves your higher self.
Pay attention to what you are saying to yourself about yourself. Shift all negative thoughts to positive ones. Celebrate You!
To me, Terry’s question is linked to my question…I have a feeling that with the right guy, it would happen with or without the tools. The tools help make any relationship better. But sometimes we’re improving a relationship that has no staying power. I guess that’s why we shouldn’t be attached to results?
Ema Lee – shifting perceptions and feelings like that is defnitely riffing. If you’d like to see how Rori taught us Riffing, go here:
on the side bar, the power and self esteem posts
start with the Oldest one (by date) and look for the posts that say to start making Lists. Then that post and the other ones afterwards ending with Follow Your Feelings will show you how we learned Riffing.
To update you dorothea ( and thanks for the love )
I did tell him that afterwards, asked that we be able to enjoy time together with no pressure and no expectations but that i wasnt available for the relationship that he was offering and that he wasnt ready for the one that i wanted. And until he figured out what he wanted from me that we would stay friends. I left the still date part out….maybe that was a bad thing. I asked what he thought and he said ok. Thats all: ok. We havent spoken since. . So now im trying to get on with life. I cant seem to get the hang of circular dating but i have been dating myself. I havent apologized for my actions and im thinking maybe he doesnt believe that he can interact with me as friends and it be without pressure and expectations. Which i can understand. I hate when guys are like that with me. Im trying to give him time to contact me first. Or should i just go ahead and say something?
hi rori
my question is about the leaning back
as time passes by i unfold more and more leaning forward behaviors of mine that were bad habits of our relationship. my question is: everything you say about leaning back both in reconnect and siren is for unmarried couples. what about the 20 years married couple. i do send him film we might like to see, phone no for doctors, things like that and more that u mention on your list of what not to do. is it all wrong? or some of it could be considered as support the team?
Terry I used to feel the same way that you feel right now, deep down I knew I had low self esteem, I knew I was being easy with men by being so available and compliant, sometimes we women have some really toxic patterns and habits of our own and it makes a man feel like love is going to be hard with that particular woman so the men end up moving forward without us, it sucks but I kept using Rori’s tools and learning from Christian Carter how to change my attitude and understanding about men and I slowly but surely a better quality of men came into my life.
It’s heavy stuff especially if a woman comes from a hard life background, I’m the queen of low self esteem but if I can raise my self esteem anyone can including you. Keep fighting for yourself, keep being your own cheerleader no matter what happens, no matter who come and who go and sometimes the men leaving have absolutely nothing to do with you, they leave because that’s what they always do no matter who the woman is or how great she is.
Accepting responsibility doesn’t mean taking the whole blame, it’s okay to admit you chose the type of man you chose but you don’t have to make it your fault he left, I’m sure if you look at his life there is a pattern of him leaving his commitments with his family, friends, ex-girlfriends. I sure know my X’s had a horrible pattern of push-pull, in and out and ditching women after a certain amount of time.
1) When you’ve spent several lovely days with a man and then he leaves to go back to his home (long distance), is it leaning forward to say that you will miss him? Or that you wish he didn’t have to leave?
I feel these things and it feels odd to not express them. I understand that I must have a full and beautiful life outside of him (and I do more and more!), but he is important to me and I do miss him when we’re apart. Is there never a time or place to express that? Or does it always feel needy to a man?
2) How can I “show not tell” a man that I would appreciate little notes, extra calls, etc. When I’m busy and can’t stay in touch, he just disappears too. I was sick yesterday and sent him an email telling him that I was going to bed early because I felt lousy. I thought for sure that he’d at least send a little note to say he hoped I felt better, but he didn’t! These little things mean a lot to me and I have tried to express this desire through feeling messages in the past … with no improvement. Is there anything else I can do to inspire him? Or is he just not a “little sweet details” kind of guy? I do think he loves me… but this is one area where he doesn’t row the boat!
Rachel – Instead of looking to express how much you will miss him when he’s gone, express how good it feels when he’s there. Melt with every embrace etc. Say that it feels so good.
Instead of looking to get something he’s not giving, look at and deeply appreciate what he does give.
Just a different way of looking at things.
And YOU will feel better too.
xxoo
I have so many questions, one does not know which to ask first.
I feel flat all the time, I am never happy, I growl at everything. No-one makes me happy, truly happy, not even my kids. I smile and acknowledge but do not feel. Everything upsets me, my divorced parents, my own messed up relationship, my sister who talks to me like I am dumb, my brother who I never see. My sport if we lose, my weight, I am 58kg and feel huge. I feel ugly, no man ever pays me any attention. No one calls and asks me out ever, I have to always make the plans, thats what my friends say. If you want to go out, then arrange it and call us. So if i don’t arrange it, i am always at home lonely.
I don’t like the internet anymore.
I have been told by family and my ex, that its unlucky but i am just cursed with the permanently grumpy face, even when I may be really happy, people always think i am shitty or pissed off. I wear my heart on my sleeve, so when ever my feelings change – i don’t need a mood ring, its written all over my face in every single situation, i do try hard to have a poker face, never works.
I do not want drugs or doctors to fix me. I am probably not fixable.
I do want a life though, we only get one chance,
I want to be happy, have friends, have a man who actually thinks i am pretty cool to hang out with, not just in the bedroom.
I want to learn to smile at every single situation and not give away how i really feel.
Is it too much to ask to be spoilt occassionally from a man, get a hug, a wink, flowers or even a corny gift, even from a lollie machine.. just to show they are thinking of you.. and you mean allot to them.
I want to be happpy and be happpy with everything and everyone in my life.. Even if we are being totally smashed in a sports game, its ok, and not feel like a bad sport all the time.
Can one’s life turn around, and can there be the kind of happiness and love I am yearning for. I feel I must have done something really wrong in my past life to deserve to always feel downtrodden and i am being punished for it now.
I would love people to answer my calls and be happy to hear from me, rather than just ask what i want, even a reply to a text message would be great.
I have gone on way too much, just needed to express how I felt.
You may all judge me, or not reply , but you do not know me, so its a little easier.
I am very use to my feelings being hurt, but it doesn’t make it easier or you more resilient to it.. ,
Thank you for listening, just posting this, gives me hope, that I will be heard and someone will know how to reach out and help.
Rori,
I know this is very long but please bear with me-
A couple of months ago I got out of an almost 2 yr on-again off-again “relationship” with a guy that I work with (which is extremely hard as Robyn said and no, I don’t want to quit my job). He is very young (20, I am 23) and “scared of commitment”. He was almost always the one to break up with me yet we always found our way back to eachother. He’s admitted “he liked me but was scared to commit but didn’t wanna let me go” and when I asked him how he could do that he said “he wasn’t thinking of me, he guesses he saw it as what he wanted at the time”. He also beats himself up for “”f*ing up our relationship and hating himself for it” and that “he cares about me a lot” and “wants me to have a good, happy life”.
Whenever I was over it, he would win me back in hopes that this time he really would be ready or things would be different. When he would call it off again it triggered my co-toxicity and desperate need to be approved of and worthy. Thus, I tried to change him a lot and would find myself talking him into us being together, without any label, in hopes that he wouldn’t see it as a “relationship” and freak out again.
This last time, after he broke it off, I did well for about 2 mos. But quickly realized how he would still flirt and essentially try to keep me still interested. This REALLY pissed me off and I began to completely ignore him which turned into a game of “let’s see who can out-ignore the other and pretend they care the least”. I HATE these games.
One night I texted him asking him to return the necklace still left on his dresser to work so I could have it. He played dumb, asking what the necklace looked like and said he’d look when he got home (as if he has a lot of necklaces laying around). Finally I told him how I felt- used and strung along and that I didn’t know how I felt about him anymore, even as a person. He said he was sorry I felt that way and that he had the necklace (he had returned home at this point). I called him up and called him out on his flirting since we’d been broken up and how he wouldn’t let me go. He denied everything and as I persisted he became really angry and began yelling. He hung up on me and didn’t respond to any of my texts for the rest of the evening.
Normally when I return to work after we’ve had arguments he’s all loud and pompous and completely ignores me as if to prove how “okay” he is while I try to not act upset when inside I’m FURIOUS. I feel like it strokes his ego to know he has a hold over me and in fact he seems to get off on it. Can you say TOXIC??
After this argument, however, I smartened up and was as normal to him as I could. No mad, no sad, and I was sure to make a point to laugh and cut up in front of him. It worked LIKE A CHARM. When he returned to work with my jewelry his demeanor was completely different. He walked around all slumpy with his tail between his legs and was polite when he handed me my things.
From that point on he literally hid from me. I am a server and he is a cook and if I walked up to the window he would literally turn his back to me, but not in an angry way but as if he was trying his HARDEST to keep me out-of-sight, out-of-mind since he had gotten the point that I was finally serious. Shortly after, he got another seasonal job for the winter (thank GOD) and I didn’t have to see him much longer.
BUT- and here is my question- he is coming back in a month or so. I am not interested in getting back with him but I want to act in a way opposite of the previous desperate behavior he’s seen from me and the always “being around” and taking him back. Because he gives me the food I serve there is a lot of face-to-face time.
How do I act? Do I act polite and nonchalant? Can I laugh if he makes a joke out loud or do I have to stifle it? This may seem immature but there are A LOT of emotions tied into this and I feel that this is my time to redeem myself and gain back my self-esteem. I feel that if I ignore him it’ll be obvious that he still has a hold over me. Acting “normal” or “like myself” is out of the question here since I cannot help but be aware of his presence/my beahvior. Sorry this is so long but please, please help, I’d really like to know what you’d suggest in this situation.
Love,
Megan
I’ve felt this way. You are depressed! You CAN live a wonderful life. I am so much more along than I was 2 years ago when I started here. I am so much more happier, and fuller of selffaith and joy and openess and accepting myself and even having what I want.
Reading your post no bliss took me way back when I was what I felt chronically depressed, for me I didn’t use drugs, I won’t go into how the depression lifted because it sounds super spiritual and I wouldn’t want to offend anyone plus I don’t even know how to explain it without coming off as looney but I’m no longer in that space were I’m unhappy with life, there was a time I laid on my moms couch for several years, little to no energy, using men as a form of relief, gosh I could go on and on.
I don’t know if your spiritual but it helps to have a higher source to go to when you fill other options aren’t working. Above all keep venting, keep seeking, keep praying (if you pray) keep asking the hard questions, keep being you and inevitably you will find the answers that you seek and change will come.
I wish for some of the same things you wish for, I used to crave it but now it’s not a need, it’s a want but not a necessity and I will be okay with or without it and you will be too.
Make a list of 5 things to be thankful for every day and hold onto that, find a space were you can put your love and energy into such as a hobby or volunteering at an animal shelter, or maybe you need you more now than ever so focus on that.
so,my ex is back in town.we broke up because he moved away and did not know if he was coming back to my city for a job (his contract with his company ended and he went back to europe to see his family) when he left i SPECIFICALLY told him i was interested in still being together if he ever came back and that we should wait and see if he does.
Well he’s back and ofcourse during that time he was away since it was all up in the air i circular dated.We had breakfast the morning he came back and he clearly told me he did not want a relationship ,he had in fact started dating a girl while he had gone home.I was in my element and was totally at peace becasue judging from our communication when he was away it was apparent it was over.He was really arrogant during our meeting and i walked away knowing that that was not what i wanted.He has since sent me text messages saying it would be nice to meet up.i’ve ignored him.it does not feel good to meet up with him and be his friend.he called me last night and said he will be in my area from tomorrow till sunday and if we meet it will be because i called him,he is not going to call me.very arrogantly said…..uh……okay.and…..?so friggin over it.guilt trip at first but thats how he operates.i feel so good now knowing that i’m not the idiot here.how do i say in a firm nice way……that i dont friggin care?
I am back from my vacation. I went back to look at my last post on Feb 8 and read it.
What I suspected was true with S. As the week went things erroded more and more. I am not going to go into everything that he said, did or did not do. It is a waste of time typing and brain cells.
What he offers me is nothing. He could but doesnt. And…. on top of that he is deceitful, untrustworth, disloyal, and talks out of both sides of his mouth. When i confronted everything… he began to run his old tapes and deliver his old speech to me. AND… that he could not give me what I need, sighted lots of reasons that I was not worth his effort ! Blah blah blah.
After it is all said and done. I am glad I went. The good, the bad, and the ugly… all of it I am glad. This has run its course. I am free, I am glad to be home and at work and to sleep in my own bed alone with my dog. Today I feel peaceful and calm and glad for my life.
It is wonderful to come thru this experience being cured. It is a good thing to endure,live thru and witness behavior that cures you from and desire for contact, wishing, hoping or anything imaginary from a man. My heart is released from feeling any pull, toward him. After some of the things he said… I am totally cured. Hooray!
What a great post! I could feel it in your words that you are breaking free from the hold this man has over you. You sound better already! I wish I could get to that point with my ex. I feel afraid that if i ever actually saw him again, all of the work I’ve done will just fall apart and I’ll be right back to where I started…..
No Bliss,
I agree that you are suffering from depression. I have been there 3 times in my life: after my divorce, after one of my grandmothers died whom I was really close to, and after my break up with my last serious boyfriend. There IS hope! If you’re not willing to go to a doctor and get medical treatment, I’d be happy to recommend some natural vitamins and supplements. Let me know if you want me to. Beyond that, start doing things for yourself in small baby steps as Daria says so you don’t feel overwhelmed. Treat yourself to a massage, pick up a hobby, get a journal. Do little things that make YOU happy. And coming here was a great idea-I can’t tell you how much support I’ve gotten on here.
I’m curious as to why you feel huge at 58 kilo. That’s about 128 pounds, which is what I weigh and I LOVE my body. I’m a size 4 at that weight at 5’5″ or 5’6″ in height. 128 pounds is not anywhere near huge- I’m considered on the small side. Have you suffered from a body image disorder before?
To all who graciously answered my questions – THANK YOU for your input. I feel humbled. I will write more later. Been working long, crazy hours this week, and I’m about to go into another meeting. Ugh. Check back later.
Gina, AMEN! The Bachelor is confusing me, too! I was much more expressive in past relationships and they lasted much longer. I may be confused about this whole leaning back. Maybe I’m leaning back too much and I’m coming across to men as not being interested??
When I maintain the commitment to paying attention to me, what I feel, what I need then reality is easier to keep in perspective.
I spoke my heart, was accused of being irrational and emotional. When I took a protective stand for me..I was accused of being a cold hearted bitch… LOL I told him that his opinion of me did not matter, and he knew that it was not true. His words bounced off me like teflon YEAH! and it exposed his inmature childish way of dealing with conflict. He resorted to name calling! LOL…. He is one conflicted man. I told him that I would bet a million dollars that every woman he has ever been with, he has told them the same thing…. ended it with “it is just not all there with you”…. He did not dispute me. I told him it is not us.. it is HIM. It is not all there with HIM…. Seesh the very thing that he wants is the very thing he blocks and wont participate in. Every woman wants the same thing… to be loved, cherished, appreciated, and make important/ a priority/ when I told him he did not do any of that for me… NILCH….. Then sighted that he just could not give me what I needed…. He did not feel motivated or passionate toward me… LOL I sited that he did not feel passionate about ANYTHING and he agreed. I told him that I did not think that making a relationship decision based on feeling passionate about me would not be wise…. He agreed. I said of pressing in thru your fear, staying on track with me and honoring your word, you rationalize that you dont feel “everything” and you pursue yet another woman. Deciet on all levels…. me and yourself. How very sad that is to me.
Even though he was agreeing…. I said well this is all moot anyway. I am stopping this cycle. I want you in my life, I feel torn because I love you but this does not work for me. You are not a man I respect and share my life, extend my heart or my hand toward any more.
This is a win for me. Freedom come in lots of ways. Going thru this tuff spot and the pain of it all released me from his hold.
You are the one to decide how much to disclose about your past relationship. If you feel angry because you are hearing your man telling you he doesn’t believe you, let him know how you feel. Tell him you want to be able to believe he trusts you, and ask him what he thinks. Perhaps he’ll explain why he made those statements, and you can clear the air.
Terry,
I believe the tools are more or less a complete 180 for most of us. Most of us have much lower self-esteem than we believe we do. We are ashamed of our own lack of self-worth! We even lie to ourselves about it.
Also, I look around and see that many women have damaging beliefs about men. I once did, too. Things like, “All men want sex with more women”, or “All men leave”. These things are false, and are really part of our low self-worth. There are *many* messages like this in the modern media, and television programs. I have made a decision to limit my exposure to those messages, and it has really helped me. I am able to “program” myself in a positive way, instead of letting the media tell me what to believe.
My man is loving, giving, attentive, and committed. He put a ring on my finger over Christmas, and we had a blissful and low-key Valentine’s Day. Sometimes it is hard for me to accept all he has to give. I really have to be responsible for *me* now! When I feel icky today, it is pretty much *never* my man. Its nearly always my low self-esteem telling me I’m not worthy.
No Bliss,
My failure to take care of myself is usually what makes *me* feel frustrated and angry. My “tank” gets low. So, I have to refuel. I have to not only accept his love – I have to accept my own! For me that means taking time out to enjoy looking at the beautiful sky. Going to the gym for a yoga or pilates class. Taking time to make myself a really delicious, healthy meal. Taking time to put on makeup or give myself a pedicure, no matter how much my daughter pulls on me, or how many things I have to get done. Time out for me from me is the key to my feelings of well-being!
For those who asked about leaning back, I think any feeling message is OK. I tell my man I will miss him. He likes that! He tells me the same thing back.
Rebecca, I’ve been through this before –he’s just not wanting to let you go – but he has no interest in taking this further. You are – at the moment – convenient. A name in his “little black book” It’s not mean or taking advantage. It’s just that since he told you the truth, if you go out with him, he has the right to assume you’re on-board with the “just friends” – even with benefits. Don’t get snowed. Turn him down for dates and say it clearly “I don’t want a friendship with benefits – I’m looking for a man who’s into me and wants to be with me and marry me.” then Circular Date – but not with HIM – he’s already blown his chance. Love, Rori
I was really surprised, one of my ex found me on skype after S. Valentine day, he wanted just to greet me. He made me suffer a lot because at that period, i was an innocent girl and he was always a “wolf”, wiht a lot of experiece, a lot of women and success. I know him for 7 years. And it is so strange that he looked for me after S. Valentine day. But he greeted me only with a simple: Hello, I just wanted to say you hello.
What should I do if he wants to show up? He made me a lot of pain. But I am not sure if I have to tell him my truth about how I felt.
If he had a good relationship, he would not have contacted me after S.Valentine. But he did, maybe he has no valid relationship. But why he contacted me? Why he did not do it before? What does lack in his life that he wants to hear about me?
Is it a question of sex? Please tell me.
I’m feeling so inspired! I love Mama Gena’s writing!
I feel confused about what seems to be her divorce… perhaps Mama Gena would benefit from Rori’s work? that would be awesome. she’s certainly good at making women feel like Goddesses. Here’s something from her e-letter that someone wrote to her…
“That job I had? It seemed pretty awesome except for my boss, who rendered me furious and anxious and edgy and defensive in mere moments if he felt like it. It was during Mastery that tried a new approach. Not my usual solid, smart, capable approach. No. I tried doing what pleased me. I flirted and teased and deflected and laughed when he came gunning. You know what happened, of course. He actually said, mystified (and I must note, reiterates this point every few months, usually to a younger member of our staff), “Liz changed, like flipping a light switch. I have never seen anyone change as dramatically as she did.” He would ask, “How did you do it? You’re completely different.”"
I LOVE IT! I can try this with my ex, with my dad and my mom, when I feel attacked. DO WHAT PLEASES ME!
LAUGH AND DEFLECT AND FLIRT!
lol
I can tell my ex… hey I dont like being talked to this way SUCKER! Call me back when you know how to be a Gentleman! click!
hehehe
also i like what Rori said to Rebecca:
I don’t want a friendship with sex. I want a man who’s into me, and I want to be taken out on dates (for my other ex who doesn’t know how to date and for Dman)
YEAHH BUDDY!
I dont want a friendship with sex. I want a man who’s into me and wants to be with me and marry me!
wooo hoo
haha its fun because Mama Gena’s writings open my eyes that I dont’ have to be so serious!
I CAN send a man demands like this woman did, what things to bring, what books to read, what treats to bring me! ha!
and just enjoy it!
lol
I love that too!!!
so fun!
FUN FUN FUN
HI rain il ove you… you’re grey and wet and lush!!! mmmmmm
I love thinking that I can be done with someone… with S… I like the line in Rori’s comment to Rebecca.
He has blown his chance. In my case… chancessssses. He has text me today. I did not respond… I dont wanna, really dont want to for the first time ever.
I am glad to read Rori telling Rebecca that the guy blew it. Speaking of blowing it…I still think about Johnny. I just can’t believe I got duped. The whole thing was a lesson in playing small. like the fact that I made exceptions for him, and drove to him a couple of times. And the fact that I paid for him on our last date. And the fact that I slept with him, even though I didn’t feel completely comfortable. I’m glad I handled things the way that I did when I saw him last…although, I still don’t like the part when I told him “no hard feelings.” that was BS on my part. I’m also having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that we dated for a couple of months, yet he didn’t care enough about me to let me know that he wasn’t interested in continuing to see me, even though we had agreed to sexual exclusivity when i saw him last. Or I guess, he sorta dodged the issue now that I think back on it. It’s a tough pill to swallow that a person would do that. UUUUUUrgh!! All the times that I gave him the benefit of the doubt…I now retract that doubt and I hate him. I absolutely hate him. I think he’s a piece of crap. And that night when I looked at him and he was all shape shifty, and then I regretted that I looked at him like he was the devil and he was all wounded and I tried to make it up to him…I was RIGHT. I want to play the blame game and BLAME HIM!!! It’s been weeks and weeks. why am I so angry about it?? Guys have come and gone. One asked for my number this morning, and I’m going out with a different one tonight…but I’m still stuck on this A-HOLE. I realize that I’m totally attacking and blaming and thinking. But to say how I feel just isn’t satisfying cause I feel a raging desire to put bullets through him with attacking words.
Forgiveness comes to my head. And I realize that I don’t give a flying flip about forgiving that SOB (even if he has a personality disorder, hole in his soul, or any other “reason” for SUCKING), I think I need to forgive myself for enduring crap I didn’t like since I met him (even though I haven’t seen him in a couple of months, I still am enduring his lingering unworthy presence in my head). That makes me feel teary, so that must be at least kinda true. Sigh…I love my rage. I love my fury. I love that I’m stronger and more sure of my boundaries. I love that life goes on and that there will be other lessons to learn. I love that I know I deserve a good man who really wants me and appreciates me.
Linda: I feel proud of you! I feel bad hearing he didn’t step as you wanted him to but I feel proud of your strength and not getting off your horse!
Gina: If it’s any consolation, I still think about A (the guy who cheated on me). I even check his FB page occasionally! He texted me not too long ago asking how I was. I told him I got saved recently and haven’t heard back from him since! GRRR!!! It’s kind of funny now that I think about it. I do like Rori says and just put him on my horse. He’s riding back there telling me not to put up with other men’s shit. I pretend with “him” that I’m the best thing that ever happened to him and he’s pining away for me. Why do we do this to ourselves? Why would WE pine for someone like that? I seriously don’t get it.
Humble thanks to all of you who responded to me. By reading your responses, I feel clearer on what I feel has been happening.
Overall, I really do feel good about myself. I’ve been divorced for 10 years. I went into counseling for 3 years after my divorce. I didn’t even date during that time. I began dating when I felt ready.
Up until 6 mos. ago, I was always the one who walked away from any relationship that didn’t feel good. I now realize I didn’t walk away soon enough. I gave men way too many chances to “man up.”
Before I came across Rori’s materials, I had read umpteen relationship books. I only started using Rori’s tools this past fall. Since then, three men have poofed. I didn’t feel angry or upset with them – just a little sad about the guy who professed his love then vanished. I felt connected to him.
Anyway, I think I have figured it out. All the advice in those relationship books is opposite of what Rori says! You know: men can’t handle our emotions, their psyche is fragile, never bring up anything so as to upset them. Wait patiently and then wait patiently some more.
Most experts promoted exclusivity in dating. That was my problem in the past. Most of my guys had wanted exclusivity too early. Then they got lazy.
I have had to use the “girlfriend speech” twice in the last six months. That’s when things would unravel. I felt these guys wanted things too easy and on their terms only. Pfff…
Thanks SS. It does feel good to know that I’m not the only one pining away irrationally. And it’s helpful to think of him back there informing of what to avoid…but it also ticks me off and I feel like throwing him off the horse. Cause he said that sort of stuff to me about the government, and former bosses – cutting through the BS to articulate the truth, and then he amounts to a pile of BS himself. I wanna yell back at him on my horse “HYPOCRITE!!” Get off my horse!” But I do like to think of him not contacting me cause he respects me so much and he feels unworthy of me, and he dreams of me. And when he’s chasing other girls he’s wishing they were me. He’s working really hard to lessen the gap between who he actually is and who he pretends to be, and his plan is that once he’s fully realized himself as prince charming, he will come to me, but I will already be taken by someone with a heart of gold who would never dream of hurting me. And johnny will know that he blew the best chance he ever had. BWAHAHA!
I left feel silly for leaving such a rant, #63.
I have an old flame that asked me out for this weekend,
and I’m ten-fifteen lbs heavier than I was last year.
I feel embarrassed, ashamed, like hiding, how can I feel confident when seeing him again?
I even feel bad about feeling bad! But trying to hug myself and it’s SOooo understandable with the stresses I’ve gone thru the past year that I’d gain weight.
Any tips for appreciating one’s body more?
I’m exercising, but more like some meditation or something?
Thank you all! And I enjoy reading and learning from all your posts.
So many wonderful comments! Im just signing in, so I cant wait to read them all!
I know this is late, but Lucy, I totally related to what you were saying about going along with the ‘just friends’ thing.
This is what I felt like-EXACTLY what I felt like-with my ex a year ago. I practiced on him and refused to be his friend and I was still interested and I wanted to turn it around with him, but all the feeling messages, everything, they just weren’t working, and I thought it would just be easier to be his friend and forget the whole thing.
I realize now that I was practicing on him to GET him to fall in love with me, I was trying to get an outcome from him, and I really think that just messed with my vibe, and he could feel that I was attached to the outcome and still HOPING he would come around.
After I started cd, I really and truly DID give up practicing on him, and I really truly DID drop my feeling messages with him.
And then I started practicing on him AGAIN, but not b/c I wanted him to step up, but b/c he was suddenly easy to practice with. The guys Im interested in now I practice on too, but I LOVE to practice on my ex, b/c, now hes just like the guy at starbucks that I practice on, I just dont care all that much about what he thinks, Im practicing for myself.
I really feel like that makes ALL the difference.
I would give on him, and really surrender to the outcome with men who are more able to Step up.
Tracy – the one word that came to me as I read your comment was this: CHAOS. You are all over the place with this man – and I don’t hear ANYTHING about YOU and YOUR LIFE!! What do you do for work? What do you do for fun? It feels like this man is your whole world. Whatever your marital horror story is – it feels like it’s playing out again here. This is therapy time – and the best therapy is free – Circular Dating. You have to learn how to hold onto yourself in a relationship with a man. It’s as though you don’t quite even exist outside of him…That’s where your work is. I know you can do this…A man who has not moved to commitment – or is at least moving in that direction after 4 months or so is worthless to you, except as practice, and as a man to date, if he’s good and fun and you enjoy him and are not hung up on him. And he is not any of those good things – at least you don’t say you feel calm and peaceful and loved with him…Love, Rori
Natural Goddess, what a great situation for us to work with and help you with! First – you are NEVER NOT going to be a work-in-progress, and I know many women who landed fantastic men when they were at rock-bottom – so “waiting” until you’re “together” is a useless point-of-view. Focusing on yourself and getting a car – if that’s what you’d feel good about right now – for nighttime, there’s always taxis…is a great place for you to be. Stopping feeling like you have to BE something for a man is the place where we can help you here. You are the prize (you got evidence of that at the party —what a great thing…Love, Rori
Megan, Welcome , and I don’t want to dismiss your situation or your feelings – but that fact that you care so much about something that is totallly gone and over tells me that yur work is in your self-esteem. You say you hate games, yet that’s what you’re suggesting. Everything you said to him before was spot-on, and he got it – though I really want you to look at all the calling and texting you did (do you still do that? Please…no…). Just be you – feel how you feel say how you feel, and don’t TRY to feel any differently than you feel. Simple. Love, Rori
Natural Goddess – take a look at my Heart Connection Toolkit – it’s almost all “meditations” – in the sense that just listening to it will help you – and my “Body Dialogues” are in there. They will help you tremendously. There may be posts here on that, too. Love, Rori
Letspa– I did ask him about marrying me and his answer was that I forced it on him and he couldnt get out of it. He went on to tell me that he doesnt like being “shackled” and that he feels he doesnt “have it” anymore. I get so angry that I pretty much dont even talk to him anymore…its not worth the argument. Ive been trying to follow Rori’s advice and use feeling statements but usually he just tells me he doesnt care and to go whine to one of my friends. As far as dating or flirting goes….marriage to me is a commitment and I dont agree with dating someone else while im married and really I dont go out or anything so flirting is all but impossible.
Rori–I think we just got a really bad counselor. He let my husband think everything was my fault and didnt make him take responsibility for anything he did in our couple sessions and then turned around and told me I needed to get out in the private ones. So my husband left feeling he was right and I was the one that was crazy.
Im confussed, hurt and not sure what to do next. Im sorry this is really rambling and Im sounding like a flaky teenager or something……so I will go for now. ~~hugsto all~~
Stacey its very important that you START going out ASAP. Join some classes that are fun for you.
Also make sure to flirt and do the tools with men while grocery shopping etc.
It would feel awful to be told not to whine, I would tell him it feels awful and I feel furious and want some time to myself now and leave the room or even the house and go out.
Thank you for your support. I do feel strong. There are fleeting moments when I feel sad because I will genuinely miss some of him. That would be only about 10% missing him and 90% glad that I am not wasting any more time on someone who makes promises that he does not intend to keep.
It is great to feel in my heart of hearts that I know I gave this my best. I was open, giving, soft and strong.
He gave me every indication, (even in actions for a while) that he was sincere, had stepped up and claimed me…. but in the end he would not follow thru. I love my strength in calling him on his BS and watching him back down, watching him sink down in his own stew. I love that I was able to speak my truth and not let any of his words sink in and errode me.
I love most of all this time that am no longer hoping that he will change and that I am going to have to be patient a little longer. I have no more interest. Character is so important. Integrity, honesty, loyalty is essential for me. ….. if it is not there then there is no point. I will not waste any more of my time.
SS and Gina… I love what you ladies wrote. So candid.
Daria… I loved your comment…. I dont want friendship with sex… I want a man who wants me is into me and wants to marry me is ready to share his life and heart with me without reserve.
S was like this when he came back into my life at Christmas…. but when it comes down to it… he did not mean any of it. Remember the little story about the Boy who Cried WOLF…. That is what S is to me now. His words mean nothing and fall on deaf ears now….. His actions did all the talking.
I feel furious. I feel rejected. I feel triggered by past memories. I feel exhausted from last night.
One of my best friends called me last night. She was asking me about the guy who I’d been seeing on and off this past year, (the guy I mentioned above), the guy who showed up at my door two months ago right before Christmas, professing his love and how much he missed me, the guy who wanted to work on this no matter what it takes… the guy who I never heard from again after that night. He didn’t contact me Christmas or New Years. Of course, I figured he was gone. And I felt turned off.
My friend said she needed to come over to tell me something. I felt intrigued and a little bad. Her voice sounded frenzied. Turns out that guy is engaged. It happened over the holidays. What a flake. Well, that explains his on again and off again behavior.
He and I talked about six months ago. He complained I wasn’t doing enough for him. He explained what he needed. I used lots of feeling messages and told him what I wanted and didn’t want. His requests were almost a bit girly, but I felt we made lots of progress. I read a post on here where someone used the phase “he tried to out-girl me” or something like that. What exactly does that mean?
Feelings of rejection are bubbling up. The same ones I felt when my husband disappeared ten years ago. I haven’t experienced these feelings for quite awhile. This feels so bad.
My friend talked to this guy a couple of days ago. His number one complaint about me? I wasn’t doing enough for him. He felt I wasn’t into him enough. What?! I feel confused. I feel angry.
Rori, could you or someone on here help explain the difference between leaning back and coming across as not being interested? Some examples maybe? I feel jumbled.
I am dumb founded… after everything.. EVERYTHING! He texts me… says he hopes I got some rest and wants to know how my day is going? OMGosh does he not get it?
Why do men do this? Why do we fall for men like this?… Why? I feel worried for myself. I feel concerned that I will slip and want to talk to him. Fix things….I am such a fighter for the way of restoration in so many way on lots of levels.
After everything, all the loss, the anger, the words, the broken promises, there is a thread of pull toward the desire for restsoration… reconsiliation. Today that makes me feel worried and weak and unresolved.
I was just listening to Tiger Woods speach…. He said he needed to learn to stop following impulses and to excercise restraint, relying on his core values and holding most important the things that matter most… Self deception is an ugly and powerful thing and reaks havoc in lots of ways, in lots of people from all walks of life I feel contemplative about all of that.
Rori, I have just recently listened to your Modern Siren cds & have also read your ebook. The event that spurred me to do this was being put in the “friend” category after a 3 month relationship with a man that I thought had the potential for being “the one” for me. It stung very badly, but I wasn’t going to let it bring me down & prevent me from finding the “true one.” After listening to the cds & reading your blog, I started practicing the feeling statements. Prior to this, I was up in my head almost exclusively. It felt very weird to be saying “I feel” so much. I felt a little unauthentic, which is the opposite of what I want to be. I recently met two men & had 2 very nice coffee dates. I could tell they were both physically attracted to me & enjoyed my company, but I’m getting the distinct feeling that I’m being “friendized” again. The first man has called me twice since our first meeting 5 days ago. After the coffee date he asked if we could go somewhere else for a drink or something. I declined & suggested we save that for another time. We kicked around the idea of Wednesday (we met on Sunday). He said he would contact me. In the meantime, a good friend of mine emailed & asked me to dinner for Wednesday & I accepted. The man from coffee called Tuesday night & asked what I was doing Wednesday. I was honest & told him I had plans. He texted me the next night & we exchanged a few casual texts in which I used feeling messages, “I feel relaxed” “I feel good about how my day went,” etc. He called the next night (last night & we chatted, laughed, had a nice talk). Again, I used feeling statements, even if they felt a little awkward. He did not ask me out. Texted me a couple times before I went to bed. My question is, if he was romantically interested, wouldn’t he have tried to make plans with me? I am also feeling something similar from the man I had coffee with last night. He was definitely physically attracted to me as he stated so & I could tell from his face & body language. I leaned back a lot, used feeling messages, let him do most of the talking (so NOT like me!). He even commented that he felt like he was talking a lot. As he walked me to my car he said he really enjoyed meeting me & would like to see me again, asked if I preferred if he called or emailed. I said I felt good with either one. I did lean in & give him a hug as he was standing there rather awkwardly & said he was really nervous. I didn’t feel akward hugging him as I’m a “hugger.” It doesn’t mean anything to me. He emailed me this morning & said he really enjoyed meeting me & can usually tell from the first meeting if he’s compatible with someone, but with me he couldn’t tell. His quote, “I find you pretty, smart & you have a good heart. Things I value. I think it would be worth it for me to go out with you again & see. I have your number & will call you. When is the best time?”
I felt rather deflated reading this as I really had a good feeling from last night that he was “smitten” with me. My honest feeling while I was with him was that he would be someone to date, but I didn’t get a feeling of “forever” with him. I mostly just found him physically attractive. So I won’t be devastated if we are not compatible, but isn’t part of being a siren about mesmerizing every man in my path? I am feeling that these men are finding me, like the man who I recently broke up with did, just a gal pal & nothing more. I know it is hard to tell from just an email what I might be doing wrong, but I am getting so tired of not being thought of in a romantic way. I’m always told I have “such a good heart” & that I”m “so pretty” but I’m not evoking that forever feeling in my dates. They either want to hang out with me or sleep with me (which I don’t do unless there’s strong potential for commitment – so it’s been AWHILE!) Any comments, suggestions would be so much appreciated. I have not replied to the second man’s email yet. Thanks so much.
Terry – the missing piece is what happens when you lean back and the man moves forward to you. This is Modern Siren all the way – about being an invitation and opening up to a man when he shows up. There’s a sensuality to it, a sexuality to it, a melti-ness to it, and it just feels open to him, without feeling like a trap. It feels like he has to WORK for you, but then when he gets there, he’s rewarded. It’s something you have to practice and experience – which is what Circular Dating is for. That said – this man wasn’t for real – he was checking you out one last time to make sure he was ready to marry the other woman. There’s nothing you could have done in that scenario – because you had no connection with him, and she did. Next time the man will be yours. Love, Rori
Stacey – I’m with Daria on this…You need to back way up…I’d love to know what the counselor said to you about you..and did you take any private sessions with him? Feeling Messages are NOT “complaints” – so go back and take a look at how you’re talking to him, and see if you’re making him wrong…or if you’re expecting him to fulfill needs you should be fulfilling for YOURSELF. That would be a great place to start. Love, Rori
Rori, I feel triggered. I feel mad. I feel incensed. Reward him with what? Our last night together was the closest we’d ever been, especially emotionally. I felt open and melty. Everything was romantic and very open-hearted. I feel used. I feel misled. I feel angry for believing him.
I have become almost OCD about reading the ebook and listening to the materials. I do my best to practice everything. I do Circular date. I’ve said no to being a girlfriend. To be honest, I don’t “get” some of Modern Siren yet. Parts of it make no sense to me. I feel stupid. I try and I try. I practice ad nauseum.
This guy told my girlfriend that I didn’t do enough for him and this other woman does EVERYTHING for him. And she emphasized everything. I don’t know what “everything” is. Frankly, sounds exhausting to me. Maybe he just made up that excuse. Obviously, he wasn’t the man for me.
I just canceled out on girl’s night out. I don’t feel going out. I don’t feel like circular dating tonight. I’m taking off work early. I feel like going home and crying…like a baby. I feel tears welling. I feel tightness and a lump in my throat. I feel worried and embarrassed that co-workers will see my sadness. I’ve got to get out here.
I feel regressed. I feel embarrassed for writing all this.
“This guy told my girlfriend that I didn’t do enough for him and this other woman does EVERYTHING for him.”
Terry, I feel your frustration! When I read your post, it made me think of an old boyfriend who wanted me to do everything for him in the relationship while he also wanted to manage the relationship. In essence, he wanted to be both the masculine and feminine energy.
Didn’t work.
You either give/do (masculine) or receive/are (feminine). You can’t be both – that’s narcissism.
There have been so many missing pieces for me that Rori has helped with, perhaps this is one of those for you.
The guy you’re talking about – sounds like he wants to be the feminine, receiving energy. His partner sounds like a masculine, doing energy.
If someone told me this back then when I was dealing with my ex, I would have said, “but sometimes he was VERY masculine, like for instance when…”. But I also knew that he wanted his feelings cherished. My ex was a little boy – a narcissist.
Perhaps this is why you feel so triggered? You leaned back and were feminine, but he did too/was too. It sounds like it didn’t work for you here for the same reason it didn’t work for me back then…
P.S. – as I wrote this, I realize that I might sound preachy, and I don’t want to come off that way at all. I am learning sooo much on these forums because of Rori and the other women who have shared their experiences. I am just sharing mine also…
I went to the office washroom to try and fix my blubbery face. No luck. Cried too hard. Nose is swollen. Came back to shut down my computer to leave when I saw your responses.
You’re so sweet to respond. No, you didn’t sound preachy at all. I feel a little calmer actually.
I felt my eyes widen when you said, “it made me think of an old boyfriend who wanted me to do everything for him in the relationship while he also wanted to manage the relationship.” “You either give/do (masculine) or receive/are (feminine). You can’t be both – that’s narcissism.”
Wow, that was my ex-husband. That was also this guy. I see it now. I wasn’t willing to go along having everything on his terms. Maybe the other women is masculine energy.
I was masculine energy for many years. I have a very masculine energy job. I am trying to be more feminine energy in my relationships with men. It feels better to me. Maybe I was always attracting feminine energy guys in the past.
I feel too tired to discern it now. I feel drained.
Terry, Im so sorry. I wish I could give you a hug. I can really feel your sadness, and I want to lift you up and I pray that you find the encouragment to realize that this man just DOESN’T DESERVE YOU!!!!!
Sometimes our emotions are so powerful that we just naturally sink into them. They’re just too powerful to stuff down, and I really feel like thats a good thing-its easier access to the soup. Feel those emotions and revel in them since they are going to bring you to something bigger and better!
Things like that just don’t happen without a reason, and I trust that God and the universe are looking out for whats best for you.
As Imm writing this, I have to listen to my own words. My ex is moving into a new house with his gf, and the wedding is suppossed to happen sometime after that. And yet, he’s been coming forward to me. My mom told me to proceed with caution and about how she was seeing a man who asked her to marry him, go to the city hall that very day, but she said she didnt want to marry like that, and that night a girl showed up at her door while they were playing board games with his children. Turned out that man was engaged to her and the next day he married her.
So I have to remember that myself. Maybe he’s just checking me out before marrying his gf, I don’t know. This is a pattern of some kind.
Oh Terry, Wow! Your post brought back a memory I have not thought of in a long time. I had a bf who was in my social circle, long story short, I thought he was coming back to me. A psychic even told me he was going to propose to me. Well, he did propose – to the gf who he was with before me! I found out about two hours before seeing both of them at a party.
I was crushed. I was angry. I didn’t understand.
I’m happy to hear you say that he is not the right one. Its true he is not. So what you can do now is really focus on you. What gift was he here to deliver to you? Why did you chose that experience? Was this relationship part of a pattern and you can see it more clearly now and break it?
Leaning back is all about giving a man the space to blossom into a relationship. When you practice, then you find out if a particular man CAN blossom.
Its not a game, its really about being respectful. When you truly love someone there is a boundary of respect between you.
1+1 = 2
Work on being complete. Love yourself – ALL of YOU – the good, the bad and the ugly and then that will be mirrored back at you in a delightful, yummy, relationship that delivers everything you ever dreamed of and more.
Siena great post! It made me think about all the men that I attracted that new how to out girl me, they just wanted there feelings cherished all the time and wanted to manage the masculine aspect of the relationship when it imposed upon him in some way, he didn’t want to be masculine much too hard for him but he didn’t appreciate me being in my masculine energy either so he would attempt to manage me, manage that part of me through lying, through avoiding, through some for of verbal and emotional abuse, through growling scowling anger, through flirting and cheating gosh your post took me back, way back.
Typical narcissistic man-boy have my cake and eat it too mentality.
I have a to ell, my story story a while ago you may have read. Being with a guy for 17years , 3 kids, etc.. Well i am ashamed to say the reason i am like i am today. I caved in.
He promised me the world again, to get help, more us and family time. Wanted to fix what he broke. It was all talk.
We are back on the same ol’ merry-go-round. He ‘s picking up ladies on the net, having coffee hanging out, going to their birthday parties etc.
Yelling at me all the time, for being unhappy, he calls it grumpy old cow, whose getting thick around the middle, but that what happens at my age. can’t have a young body forever, so all i can do to help myself is try and tone up.
To get off this circle of destruction, is so hard. Cause the nice man shows is face every now and then.
What to do, he’s back to secrecy, going away for work coming back and just hitting the town, no time for us.
I sound pathetic, I know. One shouldn’t need a man. Not one like this.
He won’t leave unless, i kick him out..
Thats not fair..
sorry for going on… no one understands, he’s not here tonight, out supposedly at a mates house.
Body image issues – yes maybe all my life, but worse of late, hitting a mile stone bday and a man that is happy to compare you to young ladies and be friend them is a slap in the face..
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. My question to you is if he is going out, why aren’t YOU? You could also go out and do things you like to do with girlfriends, male friends, yourself etc! You should be circular dating or at the very least date yourself! Sitting around waiting for him and wondering what he is doing will just make you crazy. Maybe even just take your laptop and go to a bookstore or cafe that has WIFI and log on here and post and read other posts. And smile at every man who makes eye contact with you! Whatever gets you out and takes your mind off of him and what he is and isn’t doing. Free therapy!
As far as the comparing you to younger women and insulting you goes, why take it? If it were me, I’d deliver a feeling message something like “It makes me feel bad when you call me names and compare me to other women. I don’t want to feel like that anymore.” And then just walk away from him. Go to another room and do something that makes you feel good-take a bath or read a book or just hug yourself. Or go out and see a movie or go to a book store etc. Whatever removes you from the situation that makes you feel bad and makes you feel good instead. Men like that feel in control when they know you will stand there and be an audience for their bad behavior. You take control away from him when you take away his audience. He can’t exactly sit there and call the wall or empty room a fat cow! If he learns over time that insulting you will take away the control he feels, he will stop as it is not getting him that feeling of control he wants anymore.
As far as the “thick in the middle” and body image issues, I have to say it’s all about confidence. My best friend is 4 inches shorter and at least 50 pounds heavier than I am and definitely a thicker woman. I’m a size 4 and a former swimsuit model and I can assure you that when she and I go out, she gets more attention than I do. We can walk into a place and she has people lined up to talk to her within minutes. It’s like she mesmerizes people when she walks into a room, and there is nothing physically outstanding about her and she doesn’t have a great job or anything particularly interesting about her life. She just has a quiet confidence that draws people to her.
She also has a fabulous man who absolutely adores her and treats her like a queen while I have a ragtag assortment of circular dating guys that are nothing to write home about at the moment! The difference is, she OWNS her weight. She LOVES her body the way it is and has a pretty high degree of difficulty when it comes to how she expects to be treated. And the men FLOCK to her. She’s engaged and has other men begging her not to get married and give them a chance. She’s actually one of my real life inspirations when it comes to how I perceive a goddess to be. Although I might be considered more physically attractIVE than she is by society’s standards, people are more attracTED to her. She is living proof that attraction is not determined by attractiveness if that makes sense. I’m here to learn how to be more like her!
I have a new neighbor. The week before Valentines Day, he came over and we bonded. He told me how much he loved me and wanted to marry me. We cuddeled and canoodeled for three days. I felt like I was on a honeymoon! Valentine’s Day weekend, I never got a phone call, flowers or a hello! What a total jerk! He is Mr. Trash with no class!
You don’t have to kick him out physically from the house, just kick him out of your mind, your heart, your thoughts and give yourself permission to circular date as Lori pointed out so perfectly.
I’m not skinny by any means but men seem to just give me there energy, I was at the store yesterday and this guy just stared at me until I looked up and another man spoke to me with a smile on his face and I’m not doing anything but minding me, minding my life and I’m happy about my weight, I could stand to get in shape but I’m certainly not beating myself up over it and I won’t allow anyone else to beat me up either.
There just has to come a time when you put you first, you can’t control him but you certainly can control your own happiness. I have so much more I want to say but I’m feeling sad from your post, I will chime in later.
Stay strong inside, your important, you deserve love and everything about you, from head to toe is beautiful, stretch marks, that middle age spread it’s all wonderful and sexy and beautiful, own it.
You are all so right, I feel sad that I am letting this happen to me. I would love to know that a man looks at me and we make even eye contact. But this never happens, I work in a male dominated job, for 15 years and have never even been chatted up or looked at this way..
Wow that must make you feel amazing.
I want to do all that you are talking about, but it feels like I would be, being unfaithful. I think that is my main problem, ok for him but if i do it , its cheating.
I have been heartbroken due to my boyfriend vanishing on me before the Holidays this year. On Valentine’s Day I felt awful cos I hadn’t heard from him still, and had to assume he was with a new (or former) gf. I got an invitation to go out with an artist and went, it was very nice – no romance between us but he did really squire me about, kept taking pictures and drawing me the whole time, and it was a total “ego bath” which was a blessing. Went to MOMA to see exhibits, to dinner and two jazz clubs!
without too many details, i left my fiance because he was lying. repeatedly. just found out before christmas, promised he would change – already has lied again. and despite visual evidence, vehemently swears that he has not been lying. made me feel like i am going crazy. so on valentines day i left. just could not anymore. told him i never wanted to talk to him again. so here is my question, because that is not true. i DO want him, but not the lies. i wrote him a letter explaining this (did not send) but i want to. i just dont want him to cling to the one phrase and then even if he wants to contact me he will not because of it. can i send the letter?
That is an interesting question, rebeka. though i feel that liars don’t change when they say they will. they change long after youre gone, if ever. sometimes they come back to let u know.
i have been through this a few times with guys. the “i want you but just not the lies,” but it didn’t get better at a satisfactory rate and left me feelings crazed. even after they said they wanted me and were sorry and would show me they would be honest, these men still would rather have me believing i was insane than admit they were lying. that felt horrible. oh. man.
rebeka, we can’t want the men themselves more than we want the relationship and treatment we deserve and want. we can HOPE he’ll change, but we can’t convince them to with our words. telling him you didn’t mean for him to stay away and just to stop lying are words you’ve used to convince him before to act right that have failed. this time you’ve set a real boundary and now you want to practically take it back.
love yourself enough to be realistic about how his behavior makes you feel, and how he said he would stop but didn’t. don’t invite what feels bad back into your life. if he wants you, he will be back. at least take a couple of weeks seeing how it feels without him around, and use that time to start circular dating. even if you were to take a month to see how it feels without him, if you wanted to start talking to him again there’s no reason you couldn’t. and if there’s something he does or on his end that makes it so you can’t talk to him again at that point, then he obviously was good riddance!
you do not deserve to be lied to! it is not your fault! it is not your fault! it is not your responsibility to give him an open door! you are not responsible for him!
MA Moore, Welcome – and you can call a man Trash all you want – but the question always is “Why am I here?” and for you the question is – why in heaven’s name would I “bond” with a neighbor I barely know, cuddling and canoodling for 3 days – without (it seems from your comment), leaving my apartment? In the movies this works – but not in real life. (Actually – I DO know of one time this has worked, but the couple knew each other before, had dated before and broken up once, and this time she just moved in and that was that – but very, very unusual man.) Please demand regular dating. He picks me up, he takes me out, I kiss him goodnight at my door, we do this a bit, and then we move on…Love, Rori
Goodheart – Welcome and Thank you so much for the detail…Listen, there’s just something missing here in either the “Invitation” part of this or in your Boundaries, Degree of Difficulty, Self-Love part. We’re putting together “Strong Surrender” here – and most of the time, it’s in the “Surrender” part – the Modern Siren part that needs the work. So – please just keep practicing. You’re drawing in good men to practice with – so you’re doing great – now it’s just the “tweaking.” If you FEEL “Inauthentic” there’s something not working right – and I don’t want you to ever feel like this. You might feel silly, out of control, goofy, bimbo-ish – but inauthentic, that we don’t want. It’s a clue your feeling messages aren’t coming from your heart – they’re still coming from your head somehow – so use the more physical tools – touching things, the Sensual Meditation…and work those while you’re with a man. Feeling Messages should feel like the Truth. If you don’t feel relaxed – saying you feel relaxed is not authentic – hope this was helpful…(I’d love to talk with you so I can get at this quickly…makes me want to hurry up and get my teleclass together so I can hear your voices.) Love, Rori
On feeling messages…. is it always important to actually use the word “feel”? For example, it feels more natural for me to say “I’m really excited!” than to say “I feel really excited!” Or “I’m sorry I missed you” instead of “I feel sorry that I missed you.”
Does it matter as long as the feeling is being conveyed? Or is the word “feel” a key part of the actual expression? Just trying to learn here!
Rori, thank you so much. I feel that you are right about the degree of difficulty. I have been much too accomodating with men – driving to their side of town, meeting when it’s convenient for them. I believe I’m trying too hard to be nice (stems from things from my childhood) & need to stop this. I did email the 2nd man & said, “I feel from your email that maybe you are being cautious because you are unsure about how I felt our meeting went. I can understand that. I enjoyed meeting you, beyond that I can’t say. It was a first meeting. I felt a good first meeting.” His reply was, “You read my mind. I was feeling unsure about what you thought.” We talked last night on the phone & have a date set up for Thursday. It hit me last night that I need to up my degree of difficulty because this man said to me, “Pick a place by your work so you don’t have to drive so far after working all day.” That floored me, as the men I had been going out with were all about meeting half-way. And I was doing it! Yes, bring on your tele-class. I would so much enjoy it. I do feel I am getting closer & very much appreciate all of your resources. I will work on expressing myself authentically from my heart. There’s a lot going on up in my head so this will be a challenge for me
Rachel – It depends. When you’re new to this, it’s a good idea to use the word “feel” as much as possible. You’ll eventually get a sense of what feels right FOR YOU. Some here like Daria as an example use “feel” ALL the time, and this works very well for her. Others use “feel” only when something serious needs to be conveyed.
I mix it up. Sometimes I use it more than others. If it’s a situations where I need to express my hurt or anger or something that’s a bad feeling feeling, I will use “feel” consistently.
I also make a point of expressing how I feel when I feel really good too, as in after sex, and it just all feel SO good, and I feel SO safe laying in my man’s arms.
I feel it’s as if not more important to express a afeel good feeling.
You will accustom to using the word “feel”. Like anything that’s new, it can feel strange.
xxoo
Thank you, Tinque. I am using “feel” almost all the time, but sometimes it feels awkward. I feel like the guy is going to think I’m psycho-babbling or something! But so far, the feeling messages are working.. even though they feel strange at times.
Ooooh where to begin. Well basically I’ll start with a quick intro. I’m a 31 year old single mum from the UK, stumbled across this site a couple of months ago and have read the posts and felt connections with many of the stories posted. I myself have a history of dating toxic men. Don’t know whether to go into it all it may take forever….lol Anyway, the long and short of it is that I am now living on my own with my six year old son, 2 dogs and a cat. I feel very mixed up when it comes to relationships. I left home at 17 and was very independent…..own flat….good job…met my first serious boyfriend at 19 (had been a regular social diva prior to this…..but just wasn’t interested in men….too many friends…..too much fun…..relationships looked like hassle…..men lining up to date me and I couldn’t have cared less……this was when I was a true diva……I didn’t need men…..I loved myself and was happy. I had very clear boundaries….I didn’t sleep with anyone until I got with serious boyfriend number one. Still have many of the same attitudes….have never had a one night stand and can still count my sexual partners on one hand. Anyway, now several toxic relationships later I don’t relate to who I was/have been. I know I have terrible self esteem, come off needy and desperate. The past few years have been particularly hard as my best friend in the whole world died three years ago and I haven’t had that girlie outlet and honesty that I shared with her and it has all been compounded with times of depression and I also suffer from OCD at times of stress. I feel ugly and hate my body and my looks. I don’t make the effort I used to anymore to make myself look good, I don’t see the point. I feel so sad that I seem to have lost the control over my life that I once had. I gave up a good career last year to study (good salary wise…not that I was fulfilled or happy in my job) and I don’t regret that but I know I did it out of pressure from my family to be a homely mum and not because I wanted to at the time. I give into everyone. I know people see me as a door mat and when I do say no people are so shocked they berate me for it and then I say yes because I have a massive guilt complex and feel compelled to make everyone happy at the expense of my own happiness. I have been single a year and a half now and have been on several dates but I end up feeling low and drained afterwards…..(yes I realise now I am probably attracting many of the same toxic men I always do and that’s probably why). I simply have no faith left in men. I have never been a serial dater or even had to really date so I think I find it just overwhelming to think I need to date…..I just have never really done that before. I know I need to change my perspective. I find the stories here so fasinating but it’s scary to think I can do these things. I keep thinking it won’t apply to me. I feel like the men in the UK won’t relate to this because they are not in tune with their feelings and what’s more the guy I am currently thinking I would like to date is Eastern European so I think this won’t work. I never had the confidence to post on here but then yesterday I put a comment on a friends facebook post about how I am to blame for all my rubbish relationships, how I realise the blame falls on my shoulders (I am a sucker for some nice words and want to believe every man I meet is honest and decent and trustworthy) and oh my goodness the response was overwhelming. A man I don’t know told me he admired my honesty, girls telling me they relate to it……the thing is I didn’t think I was being honest, just sharing a thought and feeling (had no idea I was even doing it when I wrote it but obviously this website had some effect on me) so finally after all my procrastinating I’m thinking JUST DO IT, just get on board with new ideas and go back and find the old me. The new improved old me…..I feel so happy thinking about who that woman is…..I never stop to say how I feel….this is amazing. I know there are many bits missing from this and I am jumping around a little but I have never exposed my feeling or thoughts like this and I feel enriched and nervous and scared and excited for doing this and not sure where to go next with it all. As mentioned I am currently communicating with a guy who is from East Europe (I met him through another guy I met with the intention of dating but who turned out to be toxic….lol)….anyway originally I only planned to be friends with this new guy….we have arranged to go out next Saturday to a theme park…..another friend of his who I know will also be there so it won’t be an intimate date. I never intended for it to be it’s just that over the past few weeks our communication has got more open and flirty and I feel as though I am getting attracted to this guy…..and there lies the problem….I can feel myself getting clingy. I am the ultimate leaning forward machine and I know I have done it a few times in our communication by IM and I want to stop it NOW!! I just don’t know how to approach this date which isn’t a date…or is it?? My initial feeling is to be fun and friendly but is this wrong?? Please help and thanks for reading. xx
Feeling very goddess- like today. Mr. Fabulous from 2 weeks ago finally asked me for a second date but we were struggling to get our schedules together because he was out of town this weekend for a golf tournament and I was busy on the days he was free. Finally he just said he really wanted to see me again and if I was still free Saturday he wanted to take me out. He drove 2 hours from the golf tournament, took me out and treated me like a queen again, and then drove 2 hours back to the town where the tournament was being held at because he had to get up and compete early this morning!
I know I’ve said it before, but there is nothing that compares to dating like this. I leaned back and he rowed and made me feel safe, secure, beautiful, soft, appreciated etc. For the first time I see how attractive it is for a man to be “the man” and me to just be “the woman”. I feel so much more relaxed and happy dating like this than doing all of the rowing myself like I did in the past. I can’t even find the words to describe it, but it just feels so natural to be this way. And guess what else? He described me in his own words as “soft yet strong, very feminine and very real”!!!!!!!!!!
Even a goodnight kiss seems more romantic and special when it comes after the man has been doing the rowing. And I’m not having to go through the motions anymore-it’s real now. I melted into him and STOPPED THINKING (I’m a very analytical person by nature, so this was hard to get used to) and just concentrated on how it felt to be held and kissed by this man. How it felt, how he smelled and tasted, how strong his arms felt around me, how soft and beautiful I felt etc. I fell asleep with a smile on my face and woke up this morning and could still smell his cologne on me and just felt totally dreamy!
The funny thing is, one of my circular dating guys is a model and drop dead gorgeous, but I’m more attracted to Mr. Fabulous because of his manliness and how he makes ME feel!
Another thing I’ve noticed is that after a date like this, men who are “baby men” seem to stand out so much more obviously. I don’t know what will happen with Mr. Fabulous and at this point it really doesn’t matter. I’m not even doing my usual over thinking and worrying about whether or not he’s into me and when I’ll see him again and if it will work out or not. I’m simply enjoying the dreamy aftermath of a fabulous date. I can’t stop sighing and smiling! I can’t remember the last time I enjoyed myself so much (when sex wasn’t involved anyway haha). And although I’d love to have sex with him, I’m in no hurry. I’m just enjoying it for whatever it is right now. No matter if it goes further or not, I’ve stepped through a new door with him and don’t ever intend to go back to dating the old way and the old types of men again!
Oh you know I just re-read my post and one line really stood out at me……..”it won’t be an intimate date. I NEVER INTENDED FOR IT TO BE” Yes I arranged the fun day out/date…..see I told you I lean forward….but I want to explain….at the time I had been telling him about fun places to visit in the UK (he lives about an hours drive from me) so anyway I mentioned this theme park and he was like “so when can we go” so I said “oh ok” and it was arranged with 2 other friends so 4 of us in total but one dropped out so it was just three of us going as friends. Now even worse than this….and prepare to roll your eyes…..I not only arranged this day out but I paid for it in advance because I wasn’t sure if they knew how to do it (tickets had to be ordered online)….the idea being they will pay me back on the day….he has since joked that he is in my debt blah blah blah….ok, I know I did this thinking it was just friendship and at the time I wasn’t seeing anything more in it but have I messed this up already??…….The thing is he told me he was happy to order their tickets himself but I am such a lean forwarder…..I was like it’s ok I’ll do it….Why oh why do I do this….I am even worse when it comes to paying for dates….always the first to put my hand in my pocket……I used to think it was equality…..now I feel like an idiot…..hmmm to think I couldn’t find the strength to post on here I seem to be making up for lost time…. xx
Is it ok for your man to female friends that he hangs with, you are not to allowed to meet them or really know about them?
My guy – thinks that I am being unfair that he can not hang with new people he meets, he wants us to have separate friends..
Is this weird..
or am I being possessive and jealous, and I should just not get upset when he goes out all the time, with other people and doesn’t spend anytime with me other than the bedroom or at a kids basketball game.. Isn’t a relationship just a little bit more than that..
Please all, tell me – do I have blinkers on, am I the one killing my own relationship !
I said No for the first time to a guy, I mean a straight up and down No with no explanation, that was one of the most scariest feeling I have ever felt in my life.
He asked for more pictures, not that I don’t have about 20 already up on my profile, I said no and although I feel uncomfortable, scared even, I’m so proud of myself. I would have normally caved in and did it because that’s what I’m used to doing, used to seeking validation and approval in some kind of way with men.
No bliss, I feel tremendous love for you right now, you really need it, your self esteem is taking a hit by being with a man that doesn’t want to be fair, he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Deep down you know through your own feelings that the terms his asking you to accept is selfish.
This guy doesn’t seem to want the same kind of commitment you want, his idea of what a relationship is totally different than your own ideas.
There really isn’t much you can say to convince him that he’s crossing YOUR boundary and he’s being unfair, the fact that he’s behaving this way would make me question if I’m in a “REAL” relationship or an imaginary relationship were everything is about him and his terms.
Maybe it’s time you start to focus less on what he’s doing and go out and begin to circular date, it’s clear you have the green light to do so since he’s making it clear he’s going to be doing a bit of circular dating of his own. Time to shift your life away from him, still allow him around if you want him there but it’s time to read the fine print of the terms and conditions of the relationship you thought you had as he’s already redefined those terms and conditions to suit him and his agenda.
Also I wanted to mention it’s time to use some feeling messages, let him know how his decisions make you feel without making him wrong, it’s not really about holding him hostage to your feelings, it’s just your way of saying how something effects you then he has to decide to either change the situation or allow you to hurt, one way or the other he will show you how important you are by his actions.
sometimes I feel inauthentic when I’m leaning back and not feeling in the pauses. This is because I’m thinking of stuff to say or making judgements etc, but I’m not saying them. And instead Im sinking back and saying nothing.
I feel also kinda powerful and deep doing this. But it takes effort – which is not quite what we want is it. At the same time, it might take effort to retrain myself… a little confused on this.
For example sometimes when I “let myself go” with a man, and don’t focus on leaning back, I find myself chattering and play bantering until I feel drained-
I just have to say this, I need to vent it out….I haven’t passed my pictures via cellphone in years, I don’t enjoy spending all my energy posing for a d*mn picture only to have to take a dozen more….My point is I just realized after saying no that I was “GIVING” to men, it’s funny how a man can sniff out weakness and ask a woman to give, I can’t say why men do this or if it’s instinctual but I am so done with “Giving” and depleting my emotional bank for the high of getting a bit of validation from a man.
I’m so done with “Takers” with men that have no problem asking and taking from a woman without giving anything first…Wow I would have never realized how awful him asking me for a picture made me feel inside if I had answered his request with a yes….okay I’m rambling today
Thank you Rori for helping me see the things I once denied.
Go KAY – I feel like that when I say NO also. Now I feel good, like chuckling inside, and also insecure, afraid I am a mean manipulative Goddess who is holding back, who is judging them as less than herself.
I love the darknesss.. obsidian blackness thank you for your womb
wonderwoman, Welcome, you sound wonderful and working to become aware of all your old overfunctioning patterns – and no – you haven’t messed anything up – and most important – this is PRACTICE!! If you can just keep the attitude that this is only practice, and the man in front of you is your practice partner and nothing else, you’ll be able to let go of that feeble “friends” thing that you go to in order to keep from feeling “clingy.” You can undo this and make up something new that works for you. Love, Rori
I keep running into this problem: I see the guy as my practice partner and nothing else, and then he falls in love with me and it becomes a very uncomfortable situation for me.
Kay, I feel proud of you for bravely saying “no” and breaking your old pattern!!! Yay!
I feel curious about your not enjoying spending your energy posing for pictures, because I absolutely LOVE spending energy doing that. It makes me feel good and beautiful and relaxed and goddessy. I never knew I could look good in pictures until I started taking them by myself with my cellphone — and I look AMAZING!!!! I have been told my photos are artistic, so maybe I enjoy taking them because it is like making art.
BUT, I’ve gotten so good at taking good pictures of myself that now I worry the guys will be disappointed in my looks when they meet me in person….
Wonder Woman,
Nice! You are really focusing on yourself and feeling happier. I used to create a friends trap for myself by doing everything. For some reason this seemed to me to be an impressive thing I could do. But taking care of the details is only something that impresses bosses and friends when you plan their baby showers.
When you have this “un-date,” imagine you are a goddess that all men want, ESPECIALLY him because he is the latest to wander through your radar. Imagine he wants you and YOU are choosing whether or not to give him more of your time. Imagining that YOU are CHOOSING (which is really what we ought to be doing) will switch around some of that lean-forward energy you have and are worried about. This lean forward energy is about hoping HE will choose you or approve of you in some way.
Girl, lean back. You are loveable and considerate and organized. Know this in your heart and it will show, without you having to lean forward to prove it. We do not solicit men with our best qualities, but rather men solicit us for our time and affection because we radiate that we already have knowledge of our best qualities.
It’s not too late at all even if you’ve leaned forward like this already. We can even call it your experiment on planning things where dates are also going to be involved. But it’s never too late to just show up and be the girl. And you’re going to the amusement park! What better plan than an amusement park to be with yourself in so many exciting feelings… I feel in awe of this great ferris wheel view! I feel terrified of the upside down part of the rollercoaster! I am feelin major cravings for a sno-cone!
No Bliss — Oh, I feel sad about that name, “No Bliss”! I would feel better giving myself a different name.
You noticed my confidence, but did you also see the LACK of confidence in the last sentence of that post?? That’s my growth edge….. And I’m not quite sure how to grow from there…..
Do you have a camera on your cell phone? I was so shocked when I first started getting good pictures of me! Lots of them came out bad, but I looked at each one after I took it to see what I could make better (and I just deleted the ones I didn’t like.) I relaxed and found a happy, peaceful, innocent, sultry, sensual place inside myself and just went into that zone. I experimented A LOT. And I got better and better at it (over several months) — and now (I feel embarrassed to say this) when I look at some of these pictures I think to myself “wow, these are beautiful — I should share these with the whole world and put them on walls and busses and posters and billboards!” I have never admitted that before, and it feels kind of weird! The thing is, I’m not very good-looking! I just got good at creating that illusion!! And that’s what scares me — I feel afraid that one man in particular — the one who has seen a lot of these pictures but not met me — I feel afraid that he will be disappointed in what I really look like. However, he is the one who saw my original ordinary pictures and told me he thought I could get better ones!
So, why not try it yourself? It made me feel so good to be able to look so appealing. Just PLAY with your camera. That was the attitude I took. The “zone” I went into with it was also sort of like getting in touch with my inner child — that little girl who wants to be beautiful and loved for who she is inside — and that made my inner beauty come out to the outside maybe??? I focused on being my soft, vulnerable self.
Lucy, Rori gave me that name a while ago, and i have just stuck with it.
I thought the day things change for the better i will change it to just ‘Bliss’ .
thinking about it and looking at others names, mine is depressing. maybe a new name will boost me up.
I did read your post, but I was just commenting on the good / positive.
I will try your idea, with the camera, i just lack any kind of confidence.
THANK YOU for the awesome tip on the cell phone pictures. I am dfeinteinly um (definitely) lol going to take some, then look at what i can make better, and retake retake.
I got really good at this with the webcam, but not the cell phone.
PS – I had/have that same worry, that I look better in my pictures,
But you know what, in real life, that IS Me. So i know that even if i have that thought, I will look good to the man, and so far it’s been working for me. They porobably see more good angles of me then even i can!Q
U know when you like someone,.. they just look good to you? or when someone is very confident, they just look good?
well i just imagine thats whats happening with me… theyre catching all the “good” glimpses of me and that’s what they’re noticing !
Hi, firstly let me say that I’ve been reading the blogs this weekend and I think you ladies are fabulous. I love Rori’s advice and am beginning to feel empowered, albeit shadowy and elusive at times.
By way of introduction, I am 45, soon to be divorced after 3 years of seperation, mother of 2 teenage sons. Depressed and not gainfully employed at this point of time. I have, however, been involved with a toxic man for the last 2 years. He is gorgeous, intelligent, charming, and knows just what to say. That is, when he wants to.
He is the father of my son’s close friend (not as close now) and pretty much swept me off my feet with his attention after a marriage where I was not acknowledged to the point where we were physically intimate once in 8 years. I am not unattractive, toxic guy told me over and over (and still does) how attracted to me he was and it was so flattering. I resisted, I wasn’t actually interested in a relationship at that point, but after a few months of persistance, I took the advice of some of my friends and just enjoyed his attention. Then I fell, hook line and sinker.
To cut a long story short, he started lying and cheating after a year, but wouldn’t let me go. I have to admit, that I didn’t want him to, because I was so addicted to his charm and we got along so well, we still do. He went from declaring his undying love and wanting commitment, marriage and a child together, to distant, going away, lying and cheating. I think that he could make these declarations while there was no possibility that he could actually follow through with them and they couldn’t be tested.
My problem is, that he keeps trying to convince me that he is genuine and wants to do what it will take to make it work. This, after I discovered that he went to see someone else on Saturday night while telling me that he was going for a drive on his own. I knew he was lying. I had the proof and confronted him, now he says he doesn’t want to lose me. This is a man who has been on dating sites, seen other women, weekly and drives to my town every night to do his washing or eat dinner or just have a cup of tea. He just wont let up.
He has done some really horrible, hurting things. And I keep getting pulled back in. He is really trying to convince me, saying what can he do to make it up to my boys as well. They loved him for the first year, he is a very strong male, considered him more of a father than their own dad. Then he broke my heart and they hate him now.
I have not slept with him for 2 weeks, though he keeps trying. I have been establishing boundaries and want to stick to them, though it is temping sometimes to let them go. But I can’t because along with feelings of love and desire for him, I also feel fear and anguish. The last few times we made love, he told me that we were over afterwards. Not once, but 2 or 3 times.
Now that I have set boundaries and will not sleep with him, he is stepping up his campaign. He called today and said, I get the feeling that you don’t want to try again. I said, I love being with you, but i dont’ love the lies and the cheating and I think it is a bigger problem that won’t go away. He said, I will go away then. I said ok and he hung up. I felt pulled by him, but would not give in to it and decided that i would sit with it and not do anything. He texted 10 minutes later to say “I know you are in pain, I am too. I miss you.” I fear that it is just a ruse to draw me back in, just so that he can hurt me again.
Is it possible that he is serious, or is it just a game? I dont want to lose the hard ground work that I have done. I don’t want to betray myself. But I do love him. Should I just let it be and let him deal with the consequences? I have not replied and simply don’t know how to anyway.
I have been trying to keep up on all of the posts, but am having a difficult time with it.
I have a circular dating question. I went on a date with a guy, and we have been hanging out for about a week. He is a guy who goes to my church (I have written about him before). We get along great. He kissed me tonight, and I felt weird. I think partly because I am not ready to be kissed yet, and partly because I have some feelings of unsettlement. Is this normal? Should you feel fireworks when you are first kissed? It has been so long since a first kiss…I am really feeling confused by this.
Wow….Rori, Dorothea, Lucy……thank you so much!! I feel so grateful that you see and understand and have such wonderful advice. I feel as though I want to cry with relief……as though I just found a group of people who get me. The girlie support I feel I haven’t had for such a long time. Not that I don’t have other girl friends in my life I do….but here the culture tends to be to laugh off problems and feelings of unease….we joke about them and don’t really discuss them. When I try to talk about self development with my friends and family they roll their eyes…..here it’s not cool to need therapy. I went to a relationship counsellor with my ex once, I really wanted to try it….what can I say…..it was a disaster…..but we laughed about it all the way home even though it meant we would have to call time on our relationship. That was a weird day!!…..anyway….like I said this is just an amazing experience for me.
Dorothea I love the idea that he is the latest to wander through my radar…..lol I love that…..that is exactly what the old me would have done….watched him as he tried to impress me so as to stand out from the rest of the contenders….lol I choose my chocolate with more thought and consideration….I want my chocolate to be my men……to get up and think…..Hmmmm I not really feeling like that one today….I think I’ll try this one…..lol
I also love approaching it from the “this is practice” angle. I feel like someone just lifted a massive weight off my shoulders with this approach. I think my big problem is that I get attached to men very easily and I can confuse my feelings with love…..I say I fall in and out of love very fast….but I don’t ever really fall out of love for them….and I know it isn’t really love I do feel it’s just that I am so used to feeling crummy and sick in relationships that when I get attached and they start to back off I get those feelings and relate them to my relationship feelings so I think I must be in love with them and convince myself I feel that way.
It’s 10.07am here now and usually I would have logged on to my email and IM waiting for him to pop up to say Hi but today I don’t feel like doing that. I want to leave it switched off for a day and go and get my eyebrows sorted out and book to have my hair coloured. I want to cuddle my son and walk my dogs. I feel like I just got the kick up the backside I have needed and wanted for so long. I hope this feeling stays. I want to make the extra effort for me and my son and for you ladies who have helped me….but ironically not for any man….!!
Rori I am going to download your ebook today I want to get started straight away.
Hi Lucy, thanks for the sweet comment, to clarify I love taking pictures now, I once was camera shy but I found through trial and error and exploring different poses and outfits and hair styles I got it going on d:
My issue was more based around a certain type of man that want constant photos in this case provocative photos. I don’t mind posting pictures of myself on my blog because I enjoy it but when men ask for personal photos, especially a man that I barely know I feel a bit sleezy and I feel he’s being creepy in some way, it takes me back to my Myspace days when I used to have an account and men would beg for pictures.
Part of me felt flattered but another part of me just didn’t want to deal with it, the part of me that didn’t want to deal with it would have attempted to “Give” him something to satisfy the situation, I usually yield to masculine energy without really thinking about my own feelings, this time my whole body said “No” and instead of ignoring my feelings as I normally would have done and thinking about how me saying no would make him feel uncomfortable I chose to sink into my feelings and say it with little hesitation.
Just got a reply from him about my No…he says
I see your answer to pic’s was “NO”, man I tell you, 20 years later and you still have me begging:-)
I read your posts and I felt touched. It is just beautiful that you asked to be listened to. I do not know how to explain, but it opened my heart.
I have a very warm nice sensation, a warm feeling towards your story.
As you were very successful earlier, I am sure you have the best qualities to be successful with men.
It is like in dancing, example, as I was a young girl, I went to a dance group and I danced very well, but afterwards, I forgot about movements etc. I thought that I forgot, but my body did not forget!! So I discovered that I can move very well in my fitness center, it was a discovery.
So you think you are not success, but if you plan and organize how you want to be and do every baby step, you will have success!!!Maybe you think you can not do it, but you will see that you can, only start doing it.
I recommend you to change something in you, maybe start with the best hair cut of hair style you can afford . Take the very best hair stylist and do something just to see you in the better, stylish way,
Please re-consider your wardrobe, your cloths. Drop off the old staff and buy the new cloths, maybe not too many of them, but also for home, take more colours, more style, I am sure you will FEEL a different woman. The same with make up. If you do not use it, try, please show to the world more beauty of you. With these small steps you will FEEL different.
It always worked for me after some sad periods.I changed hair colour I felt so beautiful after it, i bought myself a nice red lipstick with a lot of shimmering gloss, I bought some colourful, but sophisticated cloths and I felt a different woman. The colours I add to my image and style make me feel a different woman.
If you are not used to it, please try, you will lke it, it is like a play.
If you always think you make a lot of mistakes with men, please give yourself, let’s say, 1 year to try your new approach. So you won’t feel a pressure to be settled . You will try during the whole year the circular dating and to notice in your beautiful colourful notebook the ideas, your mistakes and the new approach and the success you will have,you will control yourself and you will practice, so at the end of this period you will see a different woman, with feeling messages, an absolute leaning back woman.
You will be like Audrey Hepburn in “My fair lady”, the girl changed in the film, so also you can do it.
I also was a forward woman, I took much care of others, so it was a natural approach for me. But
someone told me, if I want to change some my mistakes, I had to do the following steps.
For example,
I do not like my behaviour, that I am the first who approach the men.I want to change this mistake.
So I have to put this mistake in the past:
“I used to be the first who contact the men, but now when I see the men, I only answer BACK!!!”
Please try to modify your mistakes putting them in the past form and in the 2 part of sentence, put what you want in the present. Sorry, English is not my language so I hope I explained so that you understood.So, you put
!) in the past what you want to change
2)in the second part of the phrase, what you want to be, in present:
Please let me know if it is clear.
Dear Wonder Woman, I am sure you will be your best self you can be. Maybe you can read the book “Elegance”where the girl changed, you will see there a lot of her doubts, and her changes.
I feel that someone told you that you are not capable of being a great woman, so you have this false belief with you. But you are a great woman, you had a real confirmations of your success in the past, and you can do it right now.
You will have the self-faith, your self-confidence, your best version of yourself.
I send you a great hug. I am with you, you Goddess!!!!!!!!!
I feel like this may be more about the man trying to cross your boundary than you feeling uncomfortable with pictures. usually when your whole body is screaming “no”, it means you feel someone is encroaching on your boundaries. Stand your ground. NO means NO and he’s showing disrespect for you saying no to him. It feels icky and manipulative to me, and I have a circular dating guy I finally cut loose because of the boundary pushing issue. I believe it was Daria who described it as the kind of guy who says “just let me put the head in and THEN I’ll stop” when you tell them to stop in a sexual situation. (I LMAO every time I think of that post!)
Maybe a feeling message is in order here, Kay. “I don’t feel comfortable sending you more pics. I have plenty posted, so it’s obvious what I look like. It makes me feel disrespected when I say no and get asked again to do something I don’t feel comfortable with.”
Although I personally don’t feel this man even deserves and explanation. NO means NO. PERIOD.
Lori I knew this guy 19 years ago and I said no back then and I say no to him now so I giggled when he replied he still has to beg but really he never had to beg, he just had to take some time to know me which he failed to do back then and he has failed to do now. I replied back to his email, told him no begging, chill out and the answer is still no.
I concur that he has shown a lack of respect due to his own selfish desires but I’m not as bothered by it as I would have been say like a year ago, it’s because of men like him I have learned the importance of having boundaries in the first place, these kind of men have carried messages into my life and this particular guy was a reminder that I can take care of myself, I can stand up for myself and I can say NO.
I never second guessed my decision to say no to him, I feel empowered, confident and strong inside. I just love how I can take care of myself whereas before I would have felt weak inside, I would have said no but carried the burden of guilt and desperation over possibly hurting a man’s ego.
No feeling messages with this guy, no explanations, just “NO”, I stand firm with my “No” I used to explain how I feel, I used to say there are enough pictures on my blog to men that would ask for more but I am done explaining myself, I don’t desire his approval and validation and I just don’t feel good explaining something that’s so obvious
Thanks Lori for responding to my past and good for you for cutting loose a man that wouldn’t respect your boundaries, good for you for taking care of you first instead of him.
Hi everyone…thanks for the responses!! Im sorry its taken so long for me to get back on here its been a crazy week.
Rori… the counselor we went to saw us together like twice and then me individually for like almost 9 months. When we where in the couple sessions he just agreed with my husband that I was needy, possessive, blowing things out of proportion (I didnt know that my having a problem with his being on dating sites, having other womens numbers in his phone and shutting himself in another room or outside to talk to them and then lieing to me about who he was talking to was blowing things out of proportion)…etc. He never once told my husband that this was WRONG!!! In my individual sessions I asked about this and he told me that it wouldnt matter because my husband wouldnt believe him anyway and I needed to “find myself” and plan my life without him. So much for helping us work out our differences! That is why I am no longer in counseling, I have already been divorced once and would like to fix this marriage not just abandon it.
Daria…I have tried the feeling messages like on Saturday he was totally ignoring me and just being an ass. So I told him that I was “feeling hurt and angry” and when he responded that “you need to go whine to your friends and leave me alone” I left for the day. He didnt even notice!!!!!! When I came home at 7pm all he wanted to know was when dinner was. And later that night he informed me that I shouldnt expect sex because he had already watched porn (sorry to be so blunt but I dont know how else to say it).
Im so frustrated!!!! Literaly I have went from being the “women he waited his whole life for and finally found” to the one that he cant stand, whines to much and is crazy. Im not sure if hes like this because he reconnected with a bunch of the people he used to know and now he thinks he settled or if Im doing something wrong or what. I just want the guy I married back!!!!!!
I know that I should get out and do things but 1. to me dating or hitting on other guys is wrong…im married, 2. I lost my job 9 months ago and we are barely staying afloat..there is no extra money for classes or going out, 3. I live in a really small town and its a 45 minute drive to get anywhere!!!
Wonder Woman – What a great name. You already said this, so you know. Just do it. Just keep doing it. You are aware now of your overfunctioning, your leaning forward tendencies.
You won’t be “perfect” right our of the gate whatever perfect is. You will stumble. You may even fall flat on your face sometimes. It’s all okay. You pick yourself back up, brush yourself off, and keep going.
A good man won’t reject you for “making mistakes”. Again whatever that is.
And another thing, there are clueless men all over the world, and there are also great men all over the world.
xxoo
No Bliss – I would feel very uncomfortable if my man had female friends outside of our relationships, especially if he insisted on not allowing you to meet them.
I think you reaction is justified. For me this would be a red flag, probably a deal breaker.
If he’s being this secretive about this, and it’s a biggie, what else is he keeping from you?
xxoo
Lucy – Please, can you do something for me, for you? This is the second time I’ve seen you write that you are not very good looking. STOP this please.
Every woman on this planet is a unique sensual goddess beauty. It doesn’t matter your age, your shape, your size, the lay out of your features. It’s ALL about your juiciness which oozes from your heart, your entire being.
YOU are beautiful. Keep telling yourself you are BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you.
xxoo
Soignee thank you so so much. I feel so honoured that you would take the time to write to me like that. I am not used to people offering me help without wanting in return….I feel like my heart will burst with happiness any minute. )
My previous relationships have never been abusive as such. As I said I was a very tough cookie once but a part of that was that I had seen most of the women in my life in very traditional roles and many of them in bad relationships and I was out to avoid that at all costs (although my mum and dad have a pretty good marriage which makes me feel worse about my situation) so I didn’t let anybody get near unless it was on my terms. For the most part I have not been with bad men but they have been committment phobics and liars.
I don’t really find it difficult to attract men….people always think I am in my early to mid twenties when I go out. I don’t feel pretty or attractive anymore but I get told I am. I find compliments very hard to take. One of the main problems for me is that I find I am attracting men who pursue me with such force (I know this is a red flag now but it took a while to get that)…..my son’s dad asked me out every day for two and a half years…..I finally said yes…..I did fall pregnant very quickly but I didn’t expect what I got….he just left me and told me he didn’t want to be a dad so I was left to go through the pregnancy and raise my son on my own. My ex boyfriend (who was my first proper relationship) came back into my life when my son was three and we lived together for another three years but he wouldn’t plan for us to go further or have more children I felt frustrated and stifled (especially as his sister lived right next door and I wanted to move but he wouldn’t)!!!! I have to give him his credit though because even though my son isn’t his biologically he has remained in his life and picks him up every Friday to spend time with him. He is the only man I have ever trusted around my son and even though I had lived with him for three years prior to our first split it was still six months before I introduced him to my son and that was only because we were moving in together and I trusted he would never hurt my son in anyway. My biggest barrier to dating is that I don’t want my son to get hurt by anyone and I am finding I am struggling to get the energy to give men an opportunity to get near me……In the past year and a half I have found that men will pursue me for months at a time and I think well surely they can’t just be out for a bit of fun because this wouldn’t be worth their time only to find that’s exactly what they want. I am very strict about sleeping with men and getting tested and I make this clear but I have found men tell me that’s it ok but try to get around it when they meet me and it’s knocking my confidence. I know I am not helping myself because I get nervous about meeting guys and drag it out and I think I come off as a challenge, I think they think this girl is so hard to get to that they get fixated on trying to get me….when they realise I won’t give I find they back away really quickly and that’s when I get to chasing etc although I have been a lot better at just letting it go lately. I don’t feel used as I haven’t had any sexual contact with these men but I feel annoyed that I am coming off as a challenge. I don’t know how to change my stance without putting myself at risk of getting hurt. I see now that what makes it worse is that I am spending too much time communicating with these men and getting so wrapped up in the individual and that circular dating would have put a stop to that before it even started…..oh my goodness….it’s amazing what you see when you write it down.
Ironically my friends (male and female) describe me as fun loving and happy. I don’t know if I put a mask on. I do feel happy at times and I know I am blessed to have what I do have but deep inside I feel bad.
I love all your comments and words of advice. I have booked to have my hair done on Friday and I’m going to get a makeover tomorrow because I always use the same colours and I feel like a change.
I think giving myself a year sounds like a good amount of time and like you said it doesn’t feel pressurised. I am going to do all the writing exercises you suggested…..I feel excited about that.
I love that you mention Audrey Hepburn…..I love all her films and when I am on my own and have time I watch her films back to back……my favourite film in the world is Breakfast at Tiffanys. That is such a wonderful and great picture to have in my mind…..how she tranforms herself in My Fair Lady….ooh Sabrina just popped in my head as well….I always feel happy watching those movies….I will make a point to do that one night this week.
I love your quote “A good man won’t reject you for making mistakes”, that is exactly the sort of thing I say to my friends all the time…..I am patronising because I don’t practice what I preach….but hearing it from you makes it seem more applicable to me.
I chose Wonder Woman because that’s who I want to be….not just on the outside but on the inside….and I want to look hot in knee length boots and hot pants….lol
I note your comment to Lucy about saying she is not good looking and I am upset she feels that way about herself and I agree with what you said but I just wrote that about myself and now I feel annoyed that I feel so little for myself so I’m not going to say that again because it doesn’t sound good and the old me wouldn’t have stood for it. I am beautiful….i am beautiful…..
Ahh, but Wonder Woman, you are already she. And you know most if not all women have difficulty believing in their beauty, even the ones you perceive as being stunning. It’s hard for us to recognize our innate gorgeousness. Largely because we’ve been taught to be “modest”. And even more largely because we’ve been bombarded from day one with false images of how we are supposed to look to be thought of as beautiful.
True beauty is our goddess essence no matter what the outer covering is like.
xxoo
Stacey I feel so deeply for you, I can feel the urgency to fix things with your husband but the only way to fix things is to stop focusing all your energy on it, you don’t have to go out and literally date men but you still go out. Date yourself, go to the movies, go to the next town over if you can and go dancing, just let men make you feel desirable and awesome so you can handle living in a home with a man that is resistant to loving you.
I feel the counselor was inappropriate, not sure if anyone else feels that way but I think maybe the counselor was really just saying hey this man wants to be single and there isn’t anything you can do about it but get on with your life. The more you push for a resolution the worse things get so it’s best to protect yourself and find an out.
Money is short but I’m sure if you focus on moving on more than fixing the relationship you will most likely see another side of the man you love, he may even get his priorities straight but be that as it may whether he stay or go at least you know your moving forward with or without him.
You can’t make him love you and the more you sit in a toxic abusive relationship attempting to get into his heart the more he loses respect for you and the more the emotional verbal abuse escalates.
The best thing you can do is take good care of yourself no matter what’s going on and start to put the fantasy feelings of fixing it and getting the love you once had aside and start dealing with real feelings which are the fears that keep you holding on, maybe one of those fears is feeling like a failure for letting go, maybe it’s time you come to terms with any feelings that your silently holding onto.
Don’t give up on counselors, instead interview several counselors and inevitably you will find one that fits into your life and can help you maneuver through this tough time in your life.
I hope my words can give you the encouragement you need.
I just want to say I am so much enjoying all the comments & questions from all the ladies on here. Just reading what everyone else is going through is helpful & shows I’m not alone.
I’m 45 & single. I don’t think I’ve ever willingly said that before! I “celebrated” my 45th birthday just before Valentines Day. I don’t recall ever having a romantic Valentines Day – ever. I was married in my early twenties & it was a nightmare of emotional & verbal abuse. I stayed very far away from relationships for nearly 6 years after my divorce. I looked at every man suspiciously & built a huge wall. My confidence left me. After keeping men at arms length for so long I don’t know if I really know how to get close again & when I finally feel something for someone, my insecurities pop up & I emit the neediness scent – the please-don’t-leave-me-or-hurt-me vibe. I was once a confident woman & I want her back so badly it almost makes me cry. I have so much inside me (love, tenderness, humor) that is just aching to be shared &, sadly, I feel I’m getting too old to be marketable anymore! lol, but it’s true. The man who dumped me last month commented that I was “too old to have children.” Talk about driving the knife in. Having children was always a dream, but never happened for me. Yet, that comment alone, gave me the inner strength to move away from that man & see him as not right for me.
I appreciate this forum & all the tips that you all are sharing. In my daydreams I see this beautiful, confident, laughing woman with a kind & giving man beside her, smiling in adoration and deep, true love. She is secure & happy. She is worthy.
omgoodness i feel mad jealous. i made the mistake of looking around one of my guys’ facebook cuz i saw an old interest of his respond to his recent status update.
Kay, I laughed and thought it was cute when you said he begged. Lol. I have a couple guys like that, where I don’t get the creepy vibe — it just feels amusing. And kind of fun. Fun to say NO. There is a 25 year old guy who I keep refusing to date and I keep refusing to allow him to send ME pictures (he wants to prove he’s got what I want, lol!) I just keep saying
No
Nope
Never
lol
It is fun.
Tinque you are so right. Some of the most sexy, appealing ladies I know are not what you would consider model like on paper but in the real world their skin glows and their eyes sparkle and they love themselves and are magnetic. It’s finding the strength to believe we are no different from those wonderful ladies.
Aw, Tinque, thanks for your concern. I did acknowledge my inner beauty in my comment there — I embrace and accept my inner beauty and I know that because of it I truly am beautiful. It just is simply true that I am not physically good-looking. I accept that reality, and I find that many men see me as beautiful because the inner beauty shines through. I just get nervous sometimes if I really like a particular guy — especially if he is super good-looking — because the truth is, men are programmed in our culture to look for physical beauty, and even the “good guys” can be caught in that trap. Sure, they can overcome it, but sometimes they just don’t. But I feel grateful for your concern.
Stacey, sometimes counselors do what he did with your husband because they are trying to develop rapport and trust with the person who they know is wrong and hardened so that down the road that person (in this case, your husband) will listen to and respect the “tough love” that the counselor will offer. Sort of trying to get “in” with your husband so that he can say the hard things later on. Frustrating and maddening to the spouse, I agree!!! And the counselors really can’t tell the spouse that’s what they are doing, because of the risk that the spouse will, in anger and frustration, blow it by telling the other spouse that that’s what’s going on. A catch 22, for sure.
Whatever the counselors, reasoning it backfired because after 2 sessions my husband quit going and refuses to go back because as he put it “There is nothing wrong with me and you are the problem…the counselor said so”
Kay I understand what your saying, but there is a part of me that just cant give up. I know that probably doesnt make sense and any other normal person probably would have left by now…but I cant.
When I married him it was forever, I was absolutley positive I wanted to be with him and as far as I knew he did too. Im very confused right now…trying to keep with the feeling messages and giving him space…I dont know what else to do.
Misconstrue, Welcome…and you know the answer here – you’re simply not listening to yourself. You said it all. Get outta there…there are so many men who would do anything to have you and treat you like a queen. Love, Rori
Stacey, I understand your response to Kay’s suggestions. I felt exactly the same way you did about my marriage, and I kept trying to fix it. The more I focused on fixing it, the more he backed away. Kay’s suggestions are REALLY REALLY good, and if I had known that then, it might have saved my marriage. The idea is NOT that you are GIVING UP, but that you are shifting your focus. You can’t change him, but you can take better care of yourself and then, like Kay said, he MIGHT start taking better care of you too. If you focus on loving yourself, he is likely to be attracted to that and start loving you too. But you can’t do it with that expectation, because then you are still making it about HIM.
Last year I got ovarian cancer and was expected to die. A fantastic surgeon saved my life. It woke me up — I had been separated from my husband for eight years, still waiting for him to get his act together and love me again, and I was doing all the things you are doing, trying to make it work, fix it, etc. After the cancer (where I lost both ovaries and my uterus) I realized that I did not want to live the rest of my life like that. I was also scared that without the estrogen from my ovaries I would age quickly, and lose my libido, etc. — so I decided I was going to take really good care of ME for once in my life. I researched and picked my doctor’s brain about the best ways to keep up my health, vitality, sexuality. I can’t take estrogen because it would drive the cancer back, so I am on tons of vitamins and specific foods and use lotions, etc. and am SO happy to say that everything is top notch sexually and men are shocked to learn that I am 47 — they think I am in my thirties! My kids tell me I look younger than I did before. No wonder — I was so stressed before about my marriage! And I started doing all the things Kay is telling you to do. Well, a couple months ago, my ex started telling me that I seem magnetized, asked, “did you put a spell on me?” Now he says he is in love with me and wants to be my soul mate. He also saw a really cute pic of me on facebook that he really liked. I told him I’m not sure how I feel about that, not sure if I can trust him. And, in my case, it has been SO many years since he moved out, that it was really like the marriage was completely gone and in the past. (I had just gotten a job with insurance so that I could start divorce proceedings right before I got the cancer — the cancer made me lose my job, so we stay married legally just so his insurance would cover me.) Anyway, it seems it may be too late for him, and he is devastated. Part of me feels a little guilty, but the truth is, I gave him WAY more chances than he deserved. And, if he wants me bad enough now, he can pursue me like any other guy has to. Bottom line, though, is I can’t trust him to be faithful.
All that is to say, I think Kay’s advice is good and could possibly save your marriage.
Stacey I can’t imagine the emotional pain your in but how effective is it for you to hold onto your idea of forever with a man that doesn’t carry that same forever sentiment?
You can’t have him if your holding onto him, letting go is not giving up, it’s actually a better way of you taking control of your life, letting go is allowing yourself to focus on the things you can control which is yourself.
He’s broken the terms and conditions of forever so I’m not sure why you feel more obligated to forever when it’s clear he no longer feels obligated to you or to the marriage.
I know this all seems really hard, but at some point your going to have to come to terms with the reality that he is gone and begin to let the part of you that is screaming for you to take care of yourself and protect yourself and your family “IN” and let it guide you to better options.
I wish you all the luck. Right now you haven’t reached your breaking point but I hope as you continue to seek out your own answers and get the help you need that you break this toxic cycle and begin to smile, be happy and live again.
Lucy – “It just is simply true that I am not physically good-looking.”
Yes you did acknowledge your inner beauty, but I don’t feel it from you as much as would serve you more, and just by writing the above, you are reinforcing this belief you have about yourself.
Beauty, physical beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
Consider for example what a Pacific Islander man would consider beautiful, a large, fleshily generous woman with full features.
In the US or Europe this would not be considered so.
Mostly what is considered beautiful in this country or any other Western culture country is fed to us by the media.
You did say it that you do know women who are not considered by the media to fit their ideal, yet men flock to them. Someone earlier, I apologize I can’t remember who it was, said her friend is much heavier than she, not the media’s idea of a beauty, yet men are all over her, and the writer of the comment, a former swimsuit model, does not receive the same attention.
Have you ever seen a photo of Mama Gena? She is not what would be considered a classic beauty though she puts herself together beautifully. But the radiance in her smile is gorgeous. She exudes gorgeous goddess.
My point is is that saying these things about yourself here, in your head, anywhere, keeps you from moving forward if only a little.
So I would love for you to discard these words from your vocabulary. Look in the mirror and see beauty, voice beauty, and then lean forward and really give yourself a BIG smooch on the lips. MWUH.
xxoo
LOL yep Lucy he begged and he asked me again and mentioned how he’s still begging via IM, I didn’t respond to that because I didn’t feel like it, wasn’t attracted to him asking me again for a 3rd time after I said no twice already.
Goodheart I just saw a documentary were a woman had a baby at the age of 55 and she wasn’t trying, didn’t know she was pregnant until it was time to conceive and she had a beautiful healthy baby boy so I wouldn’t constitute 45 years of age as too old to conceive. You can find the confident you, keep asking her to help you as you go about your day, investigate how you lost her, dissect it all and you will soon have some A-HA moments, she wants to be found just as bad as you want to find her.
Lucy – Wow, I just read your story. You are an enormously brave woman. I read much of myself in you, huge physical/medical challenges and more.
Coming back from the brink is tough and can be life changing.
This is maybe why I don’t want you to tell yourself lies no matter what you think the mirror says. Mirrors lie to by the way.
You probably already know this, DHEA is great but may be too stimulating, MACA is awesome. But you seem to have this handled.
xxoo
Tinque, I feel surprised and amused — we are saying the same thing, about beauty being defined culturally and by the media, etc. and also about inner beauty being where it’s at. I am saying the same thing you are.
I feel curious about it bothering you that someone would acknowledge their lack of outward, physical beauty (in the way it is defined by their culture). We women have no trouble saying that a particular man is good-looking or not good-looking — it’s all over this forum! And we also acknowledge that sometimes the not-good-looking men are gorgeous to us because of their character and love for us (“inner beauty”), but we still admit the truth about their outside appearance. That’s all this is — telling the truth, accepting what is. For most of my life I did NOT accept it, and it really got me down and made me feel bad about myself — even though, all the time, I was getting the guys all the other girls wanted. I don’t really know what it is guys see in me, and it always baffles other girls and also my parents and siblings, because it is obvious to all of them that I am not getting them with my physical appearance. I have had girls say to me “How did YOU get him???” I have also had guys say, when I am breaking up with them, “My sister says you’re not that good-looking anyway.” But I am finally at the point where I am feeling, “It’s OKAY that I am not good-looking! I have other qualities that make me beautiful.”
Kay, thank you for your comment. I do feel the confident woman in me & try to listen to her. She actually is out most of the time. I sing while I’m cooking, dance while I’m cleaning, smile when I hug my big, lazy 95 pound dog Every once in awhile though, I think that I’ve missed the boat on my dreams. I try to push that feeling away & replace it with positive thoughts, but many mornings I wake up feeling hopeless & lonely and I know this puts off a negative vibe. We are what we feel, right? I am trying the circular dating, but LOL, I can’t seem to get more than one man at a time (not very circular) – the response online is mediocre, which takes me back to thinking about my age & how every man online is looking for the young chickies. Even the men who are older than I am put down the age bracket for their dates as younger than me! It’s challenging, even though I look & feel younger than I am, online it’s all about the numbers. Wish I could meet men somewhere else, but I don’t go to bars. All my friends are married. Yikes, reading this I sound like a downer, which I’m normally not! I must feel safe here.
Lucy – Yes the emphasis on someone’s appearance really bothers me. It feels so empty to me, so superficial. I don’t like it when applied to men either.
To hear that someone would be surprised that you got the guy because you didn’t fit an image makes me feel sick inside.
I hear that you feel beautiful regardless, and this is awesome. I’m delighted you have done this for you.
I suppose I’m trying to change the world in this regard in my own little way.
As well as awaken and expand women in their sexuality. But that’s a whole other story which many here know all about.
So I don’t want to sound like I was picking on you. It stood out for me, and I wanted to be sure you were not feeling less than in any way.
It doesn’t seem that you do.
xxoo
Tinque, that’s the whole point — When we make a big deal about physical beauty — including trying to convince someone that they are good-looking when they are not — we are putting all the emphasis in the wrong place. Instead, I would feel good about “Who Cares if I am not good-looking” BECAUSE of the fact that emphasizing physical beauty is empty and superficial. THAT is the change I would like to see in the world. I love Martina McBride’s song, “This One’s for the Girls” — it totally celebrates the beauty that is there no matter what you look like on the outside.
I feel bad that people’s surprise makes you feel sick inside. It makes ME feel bewondered and magical and special when that happens — because I realize that apparenty I have some mysterious quality that outranks physical beauty. That always makes me feel so good and amazed and amused.
I did not feel like you were picking on me.
My growth edge, however, is that concern that I mentioned before — that fear that one of these days, a good-looking guy that I really like (okay, I’ll fess up, I am talking about my imaginary guy — TN man– teehee, don’t throw tomatoes at me!!) that he wil be disappointed that I don’t look as good in person as my pictures look. That he will be one of those guys that is conditioned strongly by our culture to turn away from women who are not good-looking. I’m not sure why I feel that fear, since that has never happened with anybody before. Maybe it’s because he is extremely cute and smart and charming and the acquaintance of mine who knows him says that gorgeous girls flock to him and he could have any girl he wants. Maybe it is because I have never before been in a long-distance situation — I have always met the guys pretty quickly and found out that they fell in love with me despite my lack of outward beauty. Maybe it’s just the unknown. What do you think?
Daria, I love my crooked, off-center scar that starts at my belly-button and goes down about eight inches, where my beautiful goddess cancer doctor cut me open to save my life. My ex told me my scar is sexy.
Wow, there are so many posts since I was on here Friday. I have lots of catching up to do! Robin and Orna, thanks for your sweet and comforting words. I got a pizza Friday, went home, watched movies, and cuddled with my cat. It actually felt comfy. I woke up Saturday with swollen eyes and nose, though. Ha! Crying helped me purge some feelings.
My friends insisted on changing our girl’s night out to Saturday, because they really wanted me to go. There were 4 of us and we went to a movie and out to eat. They all know “W” (the guy I wrote about on Friday.) A couple of my friends were talking about him. They couldn’t understand what had happened. They told me “W” had loved me from afar for a long time. I felt surprised to hear that. I didn’t know that.
One friend, Kate, who rarely gives her opinion, casually said, “Terry, you both wanted to be the jewel. There can only be one. He was waiting for you to chase him.” It suddenly made sense to me. “W” is a handsome, successful entrepreneur, who has always been spoiled by many women. He has never had to work for any woman. They come to him, they spoil him, they take care of him. He isn’t accustomed to stepping up to the plate and pursuing.
Kate said apparently this other woman gave him an ultimatum…or at least that’s what she heard. My other two friends said that we were perfect for each other and that I need to contact him get him back. I told them no. I would feel turned off and would eventually feel resentful.
I spent Sunday tweaking my online profile. I gave just enough info, but not too much. I used feeling messages in it, and stated what I wanted and didn’t want. I feel a bit scared starting this online process again, but today I had several emails and tons of winks.
A couple years ago I paid attention to winks. Not anymore. That feels lazy to me. I’m only checking out the men who take the time to email me. Having that boundary for myself feels much lighter.
My next appointment is here, so I’ll check back later.
Lucy – “I feel bad that people’s surprise makes you feel sick inside. It makes ME feel bewondered and magical and special when that happens — because I realize that apparently I have some mysterious quality that outranks physical beauty.”
This is amazing and beautiful. And I have to just LOVE the word bewondered. Oh that makes me so happy. (I make up words all the time.)
Thank you for the reminder of what I tell the women I coach all the time, try looking at things another way.
Instead of thinking that people were bemused that you got the guy because you did not fit an image, celebrate that you have a magical mysterious something that men cannot resist.
My hat’s off to you…
xxoo
it has been a long time since I have been able to post. Anyway, I met this guy about 4 months and it was like a dream. We wanted all the same things, we discussed marriage, We were not seeing other people, he was calling multiple times daily and was with me all the time. Anyway, he grew distant. He had a death in the family and then some other stuff that he did not want to tell me happened and he drifted away. I tried to contact him to see if he was okay and he did not respond to my text nor my calls so I stopped calling. Well I started seeing someone else as a Circular date, I like hanging out with this other guy but do not want to date him seriously though. He takes my mind off things. Anyway, the guy that I was seeing called me on Valentine’s day after I had not heard from him in a month and a half and had not seen him in two months and he was talking to me as though nothing happened and everything was fine. I was really caught off guard and shocked that he even called because at this point I was trying to put him out of my mind. I really like this guy and feel that he is worth my time but how do I know what he is thinking without asking. When we were on the phone we were acting as though there was an elephant in the room that no one wanted to acknowledge. I want to see him so we can talk but when he was talking to me he was baby this and baby that and mentally I was like huh… How could he talk to me like everything was cool? Maybe he was trying to get a feel for how I would react or maybe he wanted me to address the situation but I did not feel as though it was my issue to bring up. What do I do? He says that he is not seeing anyone else and i would like to see if we can mend things.
Missed u from here….how about something like “I don’t want things to feel weird between us….When u stopped communicating with me it felt (insert deepest feeling) and now I feel confused …. and see what he says…
I do not want to text him any more today. I asked him earlier was he seeing someone else and he said no but what is really going on… We did not officially break up but if someone does not talk to nor see you for two months then you can assume that you are not together anymore and I started dating another guy but that phone call out of the blue on a special day like that threw me off and he said what are you doing home like he wanted me to ask him how he knew I was home. He called me on my cell. I am not sure what to do and I just do not feel as though it is my responsibility to mend this. I did not leave.
I am just now able to get through all of the posts here, and I want to tell you how sorry I am for your pain. More importantly though, I want to tell you how GREAT you are.
I feel bad that the counselor you went to see responded the way he did. I work in the same field, and although I am not (yet) a counselor, I can tell you that his response was not only non-professional, but also unethical. Counselors are like shoes (as is dating). You have to try on a few to see what feels good to you. I hope that if you feel the need/desire to see a counselor still, that this particular one did not stear you away with his poor practices……
I have a question. This may seem like a really silly question but I was wondering how other women react when men pay for things. The reason I am asking is that even in my diva days I always paid my way. I have always held the opinion that paying my way showed I was independent and equal and I suppose for many years I got away with it because I was more confident but to be honest I would really like to be treated like a princess and I can see how what I am doing is effecting my relationships and coming across very masculine.
My problem is I honestly don’t know how to react if the guy pays. I went on a date a few months ago for a meal and the guy offered to pay and I was like “are you sure” and he didn’t seem offended….more bewildered but I feel as though him paying puts me in his debt or something and it makes me feel uncomfortable. When my ex boyfriend bought me an expensive jumper once I felt terrible and ran out and bought him one to equalise the situation. Other than Christmas when presents are expected and I give back anyway I can’t describe how strange receiving like this feels to me.
Obviously I am meeting with a man on Saturday but lets say he buys me something to eat or drink I am not thinking to offer to pay but how do I respond?? I am worried I am either going to be overly grateful….like “thanks a lot” or pushing to make sure I cannot repay the favour like “thanks, I’ll get the next one”!!!!…..that feels so natural to me….accepting does not and I feel like I am going to overdo the reaction one way or the other. How do I be authentic in my response if it feels totally false to me?? How do others deal with this?? xx
Wonder Woman – we all practice receiving more and more. As you practice you will start to feel more natural with it.
Say Thank you and smile at him. Feel yoru feelings — uncomfortable, wonderful, scared, wanting to lean forward – do NOT lean forward.
Thats it!
Just Be – Nike the Goddess of Justice
You are receiving worship! Receive it! Thank your worshipper. He deserves the blessing of being allowed to worship you… (rather than being pushed away – like his offering doesn;t measure up, is not received,etc).
It will feel easier as you babystep… FEEL your feelings (that’s your part).
wow I feel so judgemental of my answers to others.
I am putting the hammer down!
I feel shaky afraid, defensive, icky, shame sinking in my stomach, energy rising stinging my eyes… thoughts of being called bossy when i moved here in 3rd grade… I LOVE MY FEELINGS! THANK YOU!!
Feel yoru feelings — uncomfortable, wonderful, scared, wanting to lean forward – do NOT lean forward.
Wow, I am totally relating to this….
I love how you conjure up the image of him being the worshipper and having the honour to worship, the fact he would feel pushed away like the offering is not good enough…….when I can visualise something it makes it much easier for me to deal with.
I am going to visualise myself just smiling and saying thank you…..and him feeling good that I like the offering.
You can show your independence in other ways. Like your busy, exciting life and not chasing him. Remember, strong on the inside, soft on the outside. I not only let the men pay for everything now, I also let them choose everything about the date. I used to feel the need to make the plans because I was afraid they would choose something I didn’t like. Even to the point of making the restaurant reservations or buying the concert or movie tickets. (over functioning) Now I’m basically completely dropping the oars and letting them be the men and show me what they would do, where they would take me etc. I like to see the choices they make on their own and how much they want to impress me. It also shows if we have things in common and how well they have read me. The funny thing is, the men I’ve been out with recently have chosen much nicer restaurants, things to do etc than I would have suggested in the past for fear of things being too expensive.
A few weeks ago, I was on a date and we ran into some friends of mine and they mentioned how much they liked champagne, which I do as well. My date excused himself to go to the bathroom and when he came back the waitress brought over a $200 bottle of champagne! (and this was after he had already taken me to one of the nicest restaurants in town!) In the past it would have made me feel uncomfortable and indebted to him, but when I saw his face I could tell that he was truly pleased at making all of us happy! And this is a wildly attractive, smart, successful man and I’m NOT having sex with him! (though I want to LOL)
It’s hard at first and there were times I even felt like a fake. But it gets more natural over time and I can’t even tell you how much more happy and relaxed I feel dating like this than the old way!
thank you very much for your answer, I am very excited about your news.
Dear Goddess, as for your men.
You know that the men when they find you attractive, they want sex. But as I understood, the main problem is that your men they accept the “play” of getting you as you are hard-to-get. But they are not involved emotionally. You want them to be in love and to take a complete care of you. Please sorry if my perception of the problem is not the same as yours. I can only imagine, but maybe my insight can clear something.
The main thing: the good man who will love you, will love your child. So I wish you to have a GOOD man who has the TRUE LOVE for you!!! It is possible!
I will send you the translation of the text I sent already and Rori liked it, I re-send it, but this time for you.
I like many women but I can not be only with one.
Her answer was her smile.
He said: “I am a solitary man, I am free and I don’t have to give anything to anyone.”
She felt upset.
He said: “I like women who understand me and appreciate my freedom”.
She started to smile and smoke.
He said: “Let’s have fun, I like you.”
She left the cigarette and looked into his eyes.
He realized she accepted.
He asked her”Did you have probably many men?”
She hugged him and touched him strongly.
He asked:”Are you fine with me?”
She closed her eyes and kissed him.
Going away on the next morning, he said: “Everything was wonderful, let’s keep it secret.”
She stretched her hand and removed some invisible staff from his shoulder.
He said: “I will call you some day.”
She agreed and closed the door.
He called in the evening of the same day.
She was not at home.
He reached her only very late at night on her mobile phone.
She permitted him to come only after the whole week.
He asked her: “Did you have fun without me?”
She smiled and offered him some coffee.
He called her nearly every day.
She did not answer sometimes.
He came to her only when she allowed him.
She did not explain why her invitations were so rare.
He understood he wanted to be only with her.
He got nervous when she did not answer his calls.
He flipped out when he knew she was seen with some other man.
He wanted that everybody knew about their relationship.
She was against it.
He wanted her to be only his woman.
He came to visit her with many many red roses.
She accepted the flowers but asked him not to come to her without her invitation.
He wanted to ask her to be his wife.
She said: “I am a single.”
He started to smoke, his hands trembled.
She said: “I am free.”
He got cold.
She said: “I do not owe anything to anyone.”
He had the sensation like his heart stopped.
She said: “I do not want to change anything.”
I was writing you the previous post and one of my insights why the men do not get involved is I wanted to ask you about the payment, who pays in your relationships.
I supposed, truely, that it could be a problem.
This is one of the main problems with men. If you want to understand them: they love the woman they can provide for!! Please do not listen to someone else. It was the discovery for me.
How we can explain that the men when they have hobbies, they spend so much money: on cars, on sports? But for their lady?
The more they pay for you, the more expensive but not in the way “object”, they will invest into you, but in their language” they want to provide. If they do not provide for the woman, they do not feel the woman like “their women”, like “my woman”.
I do never pay for out-going. If the man is with me, he has to pay. I am not less than his cars, his hobbies etc. He has to provide for me. He has to care for me. But if he has no money, he does not go out with me, he does not invite me. Maybe I will receive a lot of complaints about this conceipt. But I was married to a guy who was not the unique provider and he told me he felt less man!! After our divorce I discovered that he was able to provide for his new lady.
The paying for out going is to them!!
It is completely ok when they pay, because they will consider you more §”my” lady, not just a friend.
It works in this way, but the total true I discovered.
You can be a totally indipendent woman, but the man wants to feel a man and to provide; providing is a totally leaning forward attitute and very masculine.
I believe that when your men start to pay,you will really see the difference in the attitude!!(Book of Steven Harvey”Act like a lady think like a man” is a help of explain, please have the look in it, he as a man will explain the issue in his -man- eyes, it will definitely help).
And another thing: the feeling messages. For example Daria is really good at them, she is just wonderful to explain in feeling messages. So these feeling messages they will definitely raise your feminine energy.
Ohh to have a man want to take you out, I have been reading and trying to keep up to date with all the posts. But what i am doing is evaluating my life, and realising that my messed up relationship of 17years has been bad/toxic from the very beginning.
I have never been taken to a restaurant for a date or even romantic bday celebration.
I have never been on a holiday with him.
I have never received a really personal gift from him. ( household items are good but you do like to get something intimate every now and then.
If i want to go out with him, i have to plan it and see if he’s free, and wants to do that.
I do not know what its like to sit around at a friends place having dinner with my partner beside me drinking wine and laughing, he sits on the other side of the table and does not talk to me. This happens at any party we have ever been to as well.. When i ask why , he says he’s not there to spend time with me but to socialise with others.
I am sitting here writing this and thinking, is this a normal relationship and I am expecting way too much from him. I really do not know anymore. What is right and wrong – i am sure its all personal.
He does tell me to go find a new guy, and i will come crawling back to him cause he is the best.
I found a receipt once, he had purchased a necklace for a lady as a ( supposed ) thankyou gift. That was heart breaking, he has never even given me a $2.00 necklace.
I am going on here, but I am just going around in cirlces. Its the story of my life.
I was told last night, that i am a very horrible person to come home to,
I never smile , I have one of those faces that looks shitty all the time.. so people won’t want to be my friend or even approach me. I give off this presence off , ‘back off, I bite’ .
That made me feel sad and I said that , i was told to suck in up, and get the shit off my liver and maybe people would like to be around me.
There’s nothing else to say about this situation except GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!
This is is Toxic with a capital ‘T’ Pleas, Please get out and start circular dating.
Take absolutely exquisite care of yourself and write him off-he has no business talking to a goddess that way. He’s a joke. A sorry excuse for a man. And one that is merely here to give you a message about what you’re willing to tolerate.
Please, please cut him loose. No woman should have to listen to these kinds of comments from a guy. He’s disqualified.
Lori how do you use the “put the hammer down” tool?
I feel confused if we;re using teh same way.
what i meant is, I was using this hammer to beat beat myself up, and intead I’m putting it down and to the side, nicely – and feeling my feelings…
is that what you meant?
or did you mean you hammer the men disrespecting your boundaries? If so, good for you for caring about your boundaries, and at the same time, I think Rori suggests not attacking or hammering them but expressing feelings … boy i “tweak” this when I feel angry
I don’t actually attack them. I just imagine myself as one of those video game goddess warriors attacking them for their bad behavior. I let the visual get all of my anger out and make me feel strong and then I soften up again and use feeling messages to tell them how I feel and stick with my boundaries!
A tool I’ve been using with men is imagining they are the Divine Masculine (especially when it doesnt seem like it – hehe) and that the Divine Masculine will ALWAYS be compassionate and accepting of my feelings. That helps me open up sometimes when I feel scared to share my feelings.
Ie – theyre not, Judgemental James, but the Divine Masculine. And he will “feel me” when I say I feel angry
I intend to also use your Kiah Video Game Warrioress tool now, to release some of my I wana bash him!
Does your dvds have subtitles? Or do you have scripts to anything? I recall seeing somewhere you have a e-book. Where shall I find the information. I am deaf and would love to try your program to help me out. I just cant seem to find something that I can use. I cant use the dvds or cds if I cant hear it.
thank you
I lean forward way too much for anyone.
I need to stop doing that, cause it causes me too much grief watching men run all the time.
It is so hard to lean back .
I loved your text. When I finished reading it I had such a smile on my face. I am going to print it out and put it on my wall and read it everyday for inspiration.
Your words about the men paying make so much sense. When you said they spend money on their hobbies that hit such a cord with me….I realise now that what I am doing is giving them a reason to invest in other things that then take away from the relationship and become the most important valuable thing to them….after all it’s something they have to invest in and I am not making myself valuable enough.
I feel inspired to change that. Thanks also for your recommendations for the books to read. I will be sure to take a look. xx
for every single baby step you will make and which will be a success, I will be the first person to be happy for you!!! I am sure you will be the best version of yourself, the goddess you naturally are!!!
Only you forgot about it, someone made you forget it. But you have always been the goddess and you are and you will always be her!!!
I got the reconfirmation from Steve Harvey about the dynamics of paying about the men, I was really impressed. Earlier I knew about it from my life and from the women around me, but I did not try to do it.
The more the men invest in you, the better result and attention you will have!!! The 2 books made a lot of new insights for me. So I want to be always a requiring goddess, I won’t accept the treatment like towards a “doormat” like I was treated in my previous-pre-goddess life. Never again. I do learn to ask I ask and I ask. If the man values me less than his hobbies, it is up to him, but i won’t be cheaper than a lot of women who are provided by men.
Expressing the feelings helps always to be understood. I learn a lot of it. In my posts for you I use not many feeling messages, but you will see how they work for you.
I myself have a beautiful book I am writing my insights, my changes and goddess ideas. It helps so much.
Dear Wonder Woman, I send you a great hug. I am sure very soon I will be impressed by your new results.
It is my heart wish that you are the best version of youself!!!!!!! And you are loved !!! By yourself and by others and that you have the very best relationship you can imagine!!!
Better that you can imagine!!!
I send you a huge hug!!! Dear Goddess you will do it!!!
Hi all! Thanks for all the wonderful advice, I really do appreciate it. I’m really having a problem with the whole “leaning back” idea. I just cant seem to do it, any suggestions???
I remember when I first started. I felt like I had swallowed a basketball size ball of tin wool that was electrically charged in my tummy… while I anxiously worried about what hes thinking, will he reject me now, and etc. For HOURS!!!
now that that very inspiring im sure feeling is out the way (jk) I feel so glad I did it! I now feel delight.
My suggestion is to lean back in One way. (even small) Then, come BRAG and tell us about how you leaned back. You will feel proud of yourself somewhere deep inside that you did something you intended to do. What he does after is not important, what’s important is that you leaned back.
PS – you might intend to do it, but miss the moment… don’t beat urself up… notice it was an opportunity, then next opportunity get ready to do it agian… ohhh you missed it… ok next opportunity… then you will at some point do it.
Just one! Tell us.
This is a babystep. This is how it’s done.
Example: i wanted to call, but I didn’t,
instead I went and did a jigga bugga handstand, slapped some pillows, watched the Bachelor, went out running, cried in the bathroom (yes crying is ALWAYS GOOD. try to cry out and release release when it comes up).
I felt : horrible, anxious, a lil proud, amazed, terrified, etc…
Or. The dishes needed to be washed but I didn’t do them becasue I didnt want to, he came and yelled at me, I said I don’t feel like doing the dishes, he insulted me, I felt crushed and awful, I cried. (this is ok too. You stood your ground).
It IS hard at first-probably the hardest work I’ve ever done on myself. But it does get easier with time and practice. Just remember, BABYSTEPS!
I started with defining a boundary for myself. My first one was no confirming plans via text-phone calls only. It was a small one and the first time I went ahead and made other plans when the guy didn’t confirm by phone I felt sooooo nervous. And when he got totally furious with me for doing that I felt even more nervous cuz I hate confrontation. But when I instantly saw a turnaround in his behavior and an increase in his respect level for me I felt so much more empowered it was worth the momentary discomfort. Once I got comfortable that I could be firm with that boundary, I set the next one and so on. I now have several I feel comfortable with: I don’t call guys, I don’t drive to guys, I don’t make the plans, I don’t pay for dates, first dates are coffee or happy hour short one or 2 hour dates, no sex, no exclusivity, I don’t break plans for a guy, I don’t accept dates with less than 2 days notice, first dates I will only meet them-after that they pick me up, I accept any and all gifts or favors from men, etc. I did each one of these one by one.
For me the hardest was accepting gifts because I felt indebted and undeserving in the past and was used to being the giver and not the receiver. In the last 4 months I have received 2 gift certificates for spa treatments, one gift card for an expensive restaurant (to go with one of my friends and NOT the man!) a cell phone, a GPS, a bluetooth, a t-shirt, a sleeping bag, money to treat myself to whatever I wanted, a scarf and numerous cards from different men. And that’s not including Christmas or birthday gifts! That’s probably more than I’ve received my entire life prior to working Rori’s programs. And I haven’t had sex with ANY of the men or asked for anything! All were thoughtful gifts that the men thought I needed or could use or would make me feel good or special. It was sooooo hard to graciously accept things when my insides were screaming that I didn’t deserve them cuz I wasn’t sleeping with him or that he would expect me to sleep with him if I accepted. But the surprising thing is, the men look so pleased and proud when they give you something and you accept it graciously and appreciatively. It’s really quite amazing.
Another thing I had trouble with was not randomly texting or calling a man first when I saw or heard something that reminded me of him or that I thought he’d like. I had to stop myself from doing that many many times. One thing that helps me is I have a male friend who is engaged and there is not nor ever has been anything between us. I’m also friends with his fiancee, and she has no issues with our friendship. If I feel like randomly texting a man, I text him instead. That way I get all of my leaning forward impulses out with him and the urge usually passes to text the other guys after texting him a few times. I also do it with my girlfriends, but I find it seems to help more to text a male friend when I get the urge to text a man than a female friend. I only respond to texts or calls, never initiate.
thats so helpful. its going to be hard. I appreciate your help.
Tell me, how you get around the disappointment, if my partner is always telling me he’s going out, before i get to say anything the disappointment is on my face, before i get to say Have fun or enjoy.. what would be better to say , even i am thinking you never go out with me, how do i stop the arguments over him always going out me showing my annoyance.
whoa I feel triggered. You are SUPPOSED to show all emotions as much as possible. IT’s GREAT that your dissapointment shows. Now another step would be to say I feel disappointed.
I am not stupid, but what i am about to say may sound like – i just have no idea.
When I am disappionted that he makes plans that never include me, its causes a fight, he says i spoil his night , his golf etc .
He says i should be happy that he’s going out having a good time.
he would be happy for me if i was .
so i am really confused.
i show emotion and i get my head bitten off, he stays home and sulks cause i made him feel bad about going or he goes and doens’t come back for
the whole night to make the most of us fighting.
No Bliss, Stacey
you got a lot of advice about expressing your feelings – but what I remember from Rori – you need to wait until man comes to you and wonders what’s up.
Rori was saying her husband would come come and go to see the cat before her – she didn’t come to him and say: I feel sad that cat gets more attention than me. No, she went out, made herself happy, didn’t initiate any conversation, leaned way back (to the point of almost not being at home). Then, and only then when he came, she said something about feeling cranky.
If they don’t come (it happened to me:(), then you know they are not the right person..
No Bliss,
In my experience it feels futile trying to do anything – even giving a small gift to a person who is mostly unhappy. i used to have a friend like that, whatever I did, she was happy for a moment and then went back to her negativity. It was very exhausting for me and eventually I stopped trying and caring.
how would you feel about positive thinking training?
Im trying very hard at staying positive and leaning back. When the hubby came home tonight from work I just said hi and let him eat and go to bed without trying to get him to talk about his day like I usually do. Im not sure if he even noticed….but I did it!! I also applied for two jobs today, I havent worked in two years so it was a challenge for me. Cant wait to see if either of them calls me back.
Christina – Welcome – and start with the ebook Have The Relationship You Want (just go to ‘Rori’s Programs” in the sidebar here and look for the book – you can download it instantly.) Then, I’m working on a new book – Strong Surrender – and if you get my newsletters (sign up also at the top of the sidebar, or you should get them automatically when you get the book) – you’ll know when it’s available. Just keep reading here, and you’ll get the help you need (Also – with all my DVD programs, there are workbooks, and if you can read lips, I’m often in closeup so you can follow along between watching me and reading and working in the workbook.) Love, Rori
He came home last night really cranky would talk to me at all, kids he was fine with. So I just go dressed and still went to my girls night in at a friends. I dress cute cutely and looked pretty good/sexy for a girls night. He didn’t say a word, came in lateish, a bit tipsy , he was still up he didn’t speak to me, i just said hi and goodnight.. he didn’t sleep in my bed last night and this am when he gets up i am not going to get into why he is ” grumpy ” just going to go about my day..
thanks all… trying really hard here, he’s hard work
I love this: “A couple years ago I paid attention to winks. Not anymore. That feels lazy to me. I’m only checking out the men who take the time to email me. Having that boundary for myself feels much lighter.”
Yay! I want acknowledge your win. Drawing boundaries that feel good, and sticking to them is really great because it shows how you value yourself. Brava!
no bliss,
it’s been a day since you started trying to not chase after him. Already you are thinking it will not work! Make sure you are fine when he is out – wish him his time out. And when you have negative thoughts, stop them with Rori’s tool: say some nonsense word over and over.
It takes practise to become a happy person – Rori was giving an example of waiting too long for a meal in a restaurant – there is soup if emotions, some of them negative – oh, i am hungry, don’t want to wait (these are loud!) – and then there are positive – what a nice restaurant, it is good to be out etc. So shifting your focus from bad thoughts to good ones takes practise – fake it till you make it – acknowledge the bad thoughts, and then cherish and focus on good ones.
It is no fun going out with someone who criticises everything and can’t be consoled – that used to be my case!
So consciously focus on what is good in your life, after a while negative things will automatically not appear so strongly anymore.
When you have that aura of positivity, then people will want to be around you – and then hopefully your man will come round.
But don’t try to go out inspite of him – go out just for yourself and be positive just for yourself!
What helped me to combat negativity, was exercise – do you have some dancing classes around?
When you say you were polite – it gives me a feeling you were bit closed off and neutral…Imagine you are dancing in the kitchen happily to some music you like – giving off great vibe – politeness doesn’t cover it – you are just happy in your space – then it is not neutral behaviour, but magnetic one.
There is that dance inside of you, find it!
Then the rain will not matter.
I have a question ? Just getting out of a serious relationship in October. I am ready to move on and meet a man for a serious relationship. I get asked out alot but find myself canceling the dates before they happen. I am scared of the disappointment I went through with the last relationship. I was pushy and needy, and he was withdrawn and into his life. I have recently met a man whom I really like. Great connection. I thought we were starting a great relationship, but much to my amuse, he has thrown in the friendship word, and went on a few dates with other women he has referred to as friends as well. Although we have been a little intimate, he has assured these other women he has not been intimate with. I just found out that he went on these dates the day of the last one. He said they are dates he already had scheduled. So I accepted a date and went out as well, and am going again tonight on a date. Although I want to cancel, because I only like to date one man at a time, so I can give my full self to that man. I guess what I’m asking is due I put this friendship on the back burner and treat it as a friendship, even though I can see he truely likes me more than a friend. He text me everyday letting me know what he is doing, all day and night etc. I feel bad and keep talking myself out of this evenings date, but I have to go. I have to open up. I dont’t want to get hurt again. I don’t think I can go through that pain again. I have been reading the blogs and info sent to me. I really have taken alot in. Thats why I accepted the date. Is there some specific info I need to get to learn to open up and grow, and draw in the right person for all of the right reasons ??? Please help, I am so frustrated.
I have a question ? Just getting out of a serious relationship in October. I am ready to move on and meet a man for a serious relationship. I get asked out alot but find myself canceling the dates before they happen. I am scared of the disappointment I went through with the last relationship. I was pushy and needy, and he was withdrawn and into his life. I have recently met a man whom I really like. Great connection. I thought we were starting a great relationship, but much to my amuse, he has thrown in the friendship word, and went on a few dates with other women he has referred to as friends as well. Although we have been a little intimate, he has assured me these other women he has not been intimate with. I just found out that he went on these dates the day of the last one. He said they are dates he already had scheduled. So I accepted a date and went out as well, and am going again tonight on a date. Although I want to cancel, because I only like to date one man at a time, so I can give my full self to that man. I guess what I’m asking is do I put this friendship on the back burner and treat it as a friendship, even though I can see he truely likes me more than a friend. He text me everyday letting me know what he is doing, all day and night etc. I feel bad and keep talking myself out of this evenings date, but I have to go. I have to open up. I dont’t want to get hurt again. I don’t think I can go through that pain again. I have been reading the blogs and info sent to me. I really have taken alot in. Thats why I accepted the date. Is there some specific info I need to get to learn to open up and grow, and draw in the right person for all of the right reasons ??? Please help, I am so frustrated.
It’s been a month since the truck pulled up in front of the home of my true love. After the truck was loaded my family and friends stood around while we (Victor and me) stood holding hands and staring into one another’s eyes.
I left after having only moved in with him less than a month. We had that talk about the relationship and he expressed to me “I don’t think I need to be that committed” after I had moved in with him. I immediately turned around and left; packed up a few cloths to last me a couple of weeks and came back and moved my furniture, cookware, dishes and other personal effects out.
Well, it’s been a month and Victor came to my new home for a visit. We had a very pleasant conversation over our favorite meal; salad and salmon. After dinner, we went into my bedroom to watch TV while I went down stairs to work on a project (my way of leaning back). A few moments later, he came down stairs and announced he was leaving to go home.
I walked him outside and we hugged one another. In a playful way, I pinched him butt. We discovered the passion all over again. But I kept my boundries by not allowing myself to be intimate with him. He asked me if I wanted him to go upstairs with me and just hug. I said “I would like to know you again.”
He left and texted me in a teasing manner about being intimate and how much he wanted to make love to me. I told him, it would be wonderful to make love to him again but I would like to know you again. His response was “I’m the same guy.” And he kept prodding me to come to him home. I explained to him I felt confused and I wanted to know him once again. Suddenly, he texted back and said “sleep well.”
1. Update your plain chap stick to lip gloss or chap stick that’s tinted, glossy, shimmery, plumping (if it has peppermint oil it’s actually naturally plumping, as peppermint oil invigorates blood flow), and/or has a nice smell.
2. Stop swearing.
3. Cook or bake something delicious for someone/others (not just for yourself) And not just anything, like macaroni & cheese, but something a little challenging!
4. Try a long, wavy hairdo.
5. Wear more feminine colors, like pink or lavender; feminine colors are any colors guys usually avoid.
6. Try a cosmetic product you usually don’t use – if you never wear lipstick, try it! If you usually don’t wear blush, put some on! Curl your lashes, define your brows, try liquid liner, whatever is new or unusual. Sometimes the simplest things make the biggest difference, and you may fall in love with a new discovery.
7. Wear a skirt, dress, or heels.
8. If you’re tired, take a nap for goodness’ sake!
9. Stop wearing unfitted, unisex t-shirts or any unisex clothing. Especially baggy sweatpants.
10. If you wear your hair up all the time, try wearing it down.
11. If you wear glasses all the time, try switching to contacts. Paired with made-up eyes, you can feel really pretty.
12. Hang out with girly girl friends instead of guy friends who treat you like “one of the guys.” Do girly things like shop at the mall or have long talks. If you don’t have many girl friends – MAKE SOME! This isn’t to say hanging out with guys takes away your femininity; it depends on what KIND of guys, whether they’re the kind who treat women like ladies, or women like they’re sex objects, the “lesser” sex, or other horrendous things.
13. Spray on cinnamon/vanilla scents. These are supposedly the most attractive scents to guys; they associate these smells with “love.”
14. Wear girly/sexy bras and underwear. Even if no one else sees them, you can feel more girly (and mysterious, as if you have a delicious secret:)).
15. Wear jewelry and accessories. Replace fake pearl jewelry with real ones!
16. Replace sneakers with cute boots or flats. These can be just as comfortable and much more feminine.
17. Generously and sincerely compliment people. Learn what “kinds” of compliments really make men feel good, and what kinds make women feel good – become a professional at making people feel really, really good!
18. Be polite. Say things like, “Thank you,” “Excuse me,” “Have a nice day.”
19. Stop picking your skin – cuticles, pimples, dry lips, etc.
20. Display positive, friendly body language. Keep your hands open instead of balling them into fists, keep arms apart instead of crossing them, smile, make eye contact, breathe slowly and deeply whenever you start to stress, laugh, stop tapping/fidgeting/twitching/scratching, etc.
21. Don’t share vulgar or dirty humor.
22. Wear clothes that have frills, lace, bows/ribbon, gathers, or ruffles.
23. Walk around with a book on your head to improve posture:)
24. Use shampoo and conditioner with a really strong, feminine smell so that your hair smells irresistible, especially when damp (I’ve heard guys like when a woman’s hair smells good over a girl who just smells good because of perfume).
25. Sit somewhere comfy with a blanket and some hot tea, and read a good romance novel:)
26. Play some really girly songs and sing and dance to them! Have fun and let loose!
27. Be “housewife-ish.” Clean your room. Do the dishes, the laundry. Tidy up the living room. Put some flowers on a table. You will feel a little more respect for yourself, and anyone you live with will appreciate you.
28. Learn HOW to put on makeup so you look and feel good. Especially perfect the “natural” look, as this is the one you should most use, and which men generally like best. Youtube videos are a great place to start, and from there, just experiment. It’s an art, you won’t perfect it in a day.
29. Redecorate your room so it looks feminine.
30. Buy some real, pretty plants or flowers to place around the home and take care of them. Studies have even shown that plants in a living environment can raise your happiness level.
31. In the shower, use your hands instead of a loofah to wash your body. Maybe it sounds weird, but this helps me get in touch with my body. It’s a gentle reminder that my body is alive, beautiful, and working hard to take care of me.:)
32. If you are looking for a new job, get one where you will be encouraged to dress well and stylishly, and where you will be surrounded by lots of other women. Also, the more feminine the industry the better – clothing, cosmetics, crafts, etc. Avoid fast food restaurants, any place that requires significant physical work, and any place where you’re basically allowed to wear whatever you want (and where you notice the employees take advantage of this – by practically wearing pajamas!). This basically applies to young women who just need to work while they’re studying for their degree, etc. Office jobs can be good too, because you’re usually encouraged to look professional. Just be careful not to look too stiff or serious, and instead, wear clothing that’s feminine AND professional. If you normally wear pant suits to work, try skirt suits.
33. Watch how you talk. If you talk fast, slow down. If you mumble, speak clearly. If you use a low voice, practice using your head voice. If you talk too much, listen more! If people can barely hear you, speak up.
34. Watch a good chick flick. Cry when there’s a sad scene! Express your happiness when something cute and romantic happens!
35. Next time you pass by a pet store, go inside! Look at the cute puppies and animals and let yourself go ga-ga over them.
36. STOP gossiping, criticizing, and complaining. Whenever you feel the urge to, just KEEP SILENT. It might be hard, but it’s worth it. Start seeing the good in people and in your life instead; there’s no need to have give and take with ugliness. It will not make you a better person. And, if people associate you with negativity, they won’t want to be around you; they might even be scared to get to know you, and you, them.
37. Get some girly pajamas. Try to avoid pants and a top, unless the pattern, material, design, etc. is very feminine. I highly recommend night gowns. If you’re married, the sexier the better!
38. Drop cynicism – cynical sarcasm, jokes, comments.
39. Hum.
40. Replace gum with something like Ice Breakers or Altoids; chewing gum looks unattractive. If you’re extremely attached to gum, switching to a cinnamon gum is a bit of a step up for two reasons: men love the smell of cinnamon (they associate it with love) AND it actually makes your breath fresher by killing the bacteria in your mouth instead of just covering it up.
41. Shave your legs, even in the winter when you don’t “have” to.
42. Don’t depend on showing lots of skin, cleavage, etc. to get attention as a woman. Focus on your aura, attitude, the way you hold yourself, and the style of your clothes instead.
43. Take a long, hot bath by candlelight and soothing music. There are many things you can put in your bath to feel feminine, such as essential oils, sweet-smelling bubble bath solution (bubble bath solution made for children have very strong scents and big bubbles – choose strawberry or some other very girly smell), rose petals, epsom salt (relaxes muscles, can be bought cheap at Walmart), and there are lots of products made especially for baths (I especially recommend Burt’s Bees and Bath & Body Works)
44. Wear earrings every day, even if they’re just studs.
45. Take smaller bites. Chew more slowly.
46. Spend time with really cute little kids. Especially happy little girls who LOVE BEING girly, and have no shame immersing themselves in girly things and activities – Barbies, Disney princesses, dress-up, pink, singing, baby animals, glitter, twirling around in frilly skirts, etc.
47. Keep a diary. Diaries help you get in touch with your emotions and clear your mind. My brother just shared with me that he thinks it’s cute when girls write in diaries.
48. Donate to a charity or cause that helps those for whom your heart is sincerely concerned. Or even better, volunteer your time. Charity is an essential trait in a truly feminine woman.
49. If you smoke, try to avoid smoking in front of men. Of course, quitting is the best choice but isn’t exactly “simple.” For my brother, smoking is THE most unattractive thing women do.
50. If you’re normal, you probably almost daily see and interact with people outside your home. So, wear makeup daily! Even if it’s just enough for you to be able to look in the mirror and not think, “I look so ______ (ugly, plain, scary, old, tired, you fill in the blank).”
51. Wear nail polish 24-7, even if it’s just clear or cream-colored. Rich, red nail polish is especially sexy & feminine for fancy occassions.
52. Don’t listen to rap, heavy metal, screamo, or anything of the like. Even rock is unfeminine; it’s fine to like, but shouldn’t be the only thing you listen to.
53. Read Fascinating Womanhood by Helen Andelin and learn the core principles of true femininity.
I watched this movie when I was 15 and thought it the most boring thing in the world. I rewatched it the other day and fell in love.
You know, this movie is SUCH a great example of the Angelic and Human sides F.W. talks about!
Scarlett embodies the human side like no one else: she’s charming, girly, cute, flirty, and whenever she’s mad or upset (or just faking it) her poutiness is so adorable that Rhett Butler could never resist it, even when HE was very mad at her.
However, she almost completely lacks the Angelic side, making her selfish, mean, arrogant, stubborn, manipulative, ungrateful, bossy, immature, and a host of other things.
Melanie, on the other hand, perfectly embodies the Angelic side. She is sweet and unconditionally loving to everyone, and in turn is loved by the whole town. People respect her, value her opinions, want to be around her. She never, ever judges or desires ill will toward Scarlett, even after she catches Scarlett being held by her husband Ashley.
It becomes apparent how important the Human side is, though, when Ashley (Melanie’s husband) struggles to resist Scarlett’s temptations. If Melanie had a charming and childlike side like Scarlett, Ashely would never have been so tempted. Luckily, Melanie’s Angelic side is strong enough, and Ashley a good enough man, to not fall for Scarlett. Instead he holds on to the beautiful, mature love he shares with Melanie.
I think in general, the Human side is required to really attract and catch a man, but the Angelic side is necessary to create strong, lasting bonds based on trust and unselfishness. Of course, a man who’s woman doesn’t have much of a charming side will be a little miserable and bored, which is dangerous and could mean he’ll start looking at other women. And can you blame a man for being disappointed if, when he first met a woman, she was charming, adorable, girly, etc. but as soon as they got married, had kids and so on, she started only acting “mature” and “good”? I mean, that woman wouldn’t even be the same one he married. Lots of women change in this way, but it’s very important to retain girlishness even as we age.
I highly recommend watching this movie, as there’s a lot to learn from both female characters.
It is not my texts but I just wanted to leave it for you just for your pleasure. And another text about how to be more mysterious.
Strategies to create mystery when you feel it is lacking
- Make changes to things without explaining why. A feminine woman knows that by making changes, and keeping the variety, she can be a lot more interesting and enigmatic to her man. You can make changes to something around the house, make a significant change to your appearance, etc and say nothing about it. When he asks why, you can be really cheeky (I love cheeky, and so do men, believe me!) and say: ‘Wouldn’t you like to know!” or “I just did” or “I felt like it”.
You have to get out of your comfort zone. If there’s a way of life you’ve gotten used to, and he has too, make a decision to make changes sporadically and without explanation, no matter how content and comfortable you are doing things a certain way. Remember, just by being content, you’re missing out on all the JUICE in life! There are levels much higher than content
- Break the routine. There are MANY ways to do this, and not enough space here to list all the ways, but basically, you want to change things that you know you and him have gotten used to, or even expected. If you know your man expects you to do a certain thing at a certain time, don’t do it! If he comes home at 5.30-6pm and you’re usually at home, GO OUT! You can even just walk the dog. Organize a catch up with a friend, take the kids out, be on the phone when he comes home, and don’t let him hear what you’re saying
- Don’t have a response to everything. If you’ve got a predictable personality, change the way you respond to and do things. If you have strong opinions on a certain matter, and he thinks he knows what you think of it, and says something knowing what your response will be; don’t say anything! To put it simply, don’t be predictable!
- Smirk or give a cheeky grin in the place of words. If you feel that the mystery is lacking, RESIST talking to him where you need to/can. I know this can be hard, cause us girlies love to chat, but it will be well worth it!
- If you normally talk about your day to him when he comes home, or when you come home, don’t talk about your day!Let him wonder about your day.
- Don’t answer his calls. Answer his calls. Take hours to reply, or maybe don’t reply at all. I know this may seem a little harsh, and you may feel bad for your man, but as long as you keep giving him small reasons to think that you love him, he should be fine with it.
- Make plans to go out and be unavailable sometimes. If you don’t have many friends to go out with, make some! Go to a dance class or a women’s meet up group. Take lessons in feminine things such as sewing, painting, flower arranging, makeup application, fashion courses, etc. You can take up sports as well. Yes it’s possible to play sports and be feminine
- Do lots of feminine things/have feminine passions that you can engage in even at home. Have a room in the house where you typically go to that is exclusively yours. Close the door, and don’t often let him know what you’re doing in there. (Do whatever you want to do, you just don’t need to tell him about it all the time).
- If you feel sad, and you normally talk to him about it, talk to a girlfriend instead and don’t let him know why. He doesn’t have to know all of your emotions, thoughts and feelings. (Of course you can talk to him when you’re sad, and you need to to get close to him, but you don’t have to all the time).
- If you tell him you’re going out somewhere, (this works particularly well on the protective and territorial man, and most masculine men have these two traits) don’t tell him where you’re going all the time. If you know where you’re going, you can just say you don’t know yet
- change your perfume, shampoo, the way you do your makeup, your favorite pair of jeans, etc. Most men don’t notice subtle changes but they might notice it subconsciously. Even if he doesn’t mention it, you’re at least creating the ASSOCIATION that you = mysterious in his mind.
- Organize weekends away with your girlfriends, kids or family. You may not choose to bring him, which is fine, as he’ll wonder what you’re doing over the weekend without him.
- Listen more than you speak., There’s nothing that’s more beneficial in being mysterious than this. Talking gives people clear clues about how you think and feel and doesn’t leave much to the imagination.
- Be careful with sexual desire. You want to keep him wondering whether you desire him sexually or not and change the energy. If you are sexually active with your man, don’t make your sex with him regular and consistent. Be intimate with him a few times one week, then have a week or 2 off. Whatever suits you. Men need uncertainty in sexual intimacy! You must keep him on the tip of his toes and not let him have you all ‘worked out’!
- Keep accentuating and honoring the differences between the two of you. This is why learning the art of femininity is so important. If a woman has a lot in common with men, she’s not so mysterious anymore, because men understand men and women understand women. Do all you can to learn about femininity and EMBODY a feminine woman. The things you understand well are most likely the things he doesn’t have a clue about. Doing these will keep him fascinated! It’s all about being more of a woman!
Remember that learning strategies on how to do things in a relationship does not mean you’re being MANIPULATIVE. It just means you’re bringing out more sides to you! You’re not just one kind of person my lovely. You’re many different people on the inside, and you can choose which person to bring out at the right time. This is a skill that requires awareness, learning and practice. It’s when you’re completely readable, understandable and predictable that you become boring to your man. If you are always the same kind of person, it makes it harder for you to be exciting and fascinating to your man. You have to keep him stimulated and provide your relationship with lots of variety! You will both have a lot more fun and passion. He will also respect you more, and be much less likely to find another woman to meet his needs.
Why would a woman want to be mysterious? The ‘concept’ behind being mysterious is about keeping things fresh and exciting, so that the relationship doesn’t become to plagued by rituals. Rituals have their use (and positive uses at that) – but bad relationship rituals can turn spouses off. Often, mystery can be created by distance (being apart from your spouse) however, this isn’t always true because some couples who are often apart still don’t have much mystery. It’s all about who you show up as.
Most people have trouble creating mystery and intrigue in their intimate relationship. Couples get too comfortable, too “familiar” and feel their spouse no longer excites them. Most people have low standards for themselves and so let everything go because they believe that since they’ve been with their spouse for so long, they feel ‘accepted’ and loved for who they are.
In the first part of How to Be Mysterious, I talked about how a feminine woman understands mystery perfectly. Even if it’s just subconsciously. This is because women relate better to women, and men relate better to men. I want to emphasize this point.
A masculine man will find a feminine woman mysterious (and fascinating) just because she is her true feminine self, and he doesn’t and cannot ever live in that reality (with a few exceptions) and see the world exactly the way she does, and she is mysterious even if she doesn’t make a conscious effort to be mysterious. We’re meant to be mysterious and fascinating to the opposite sex. Masculine – Feminine are opposites and they attract, produce fire and create intense sexual energy because they’re opposites and these energies are meant to feed one another.
My last post detailed lots of strategies you can use to be mysterious to your man. These strategies are definitely actionable, but I want to let you know that they are there for you to employ when you feel that the mystery is lacking. I mean, if we had to consciously do it all the time, it would be tiresome – and life will be life so things will come up that direct our focus elsewhere.
Authenticity in who you are
You can be mysterious simply by embodying your true self. This encompasses embracing the feminine (if you’re more feminine at your core). If you are authentic, you are mysterious anyway. Anyone who is authentic,confident, real, rare, has self-respect and tends to be unique is mysterious naturally.
Strategies can be used in combination with this natural tendency, and there will be a huge spark! However, the women who are not mysterious are the ones who need approval from other people. They are not comfortable or strong enough to live life on their terms and to be an example/a leader. People follow leaders because they want more of what they’ve got. There’s ’something about’ leaders!
Mysterious Men
Have you ever met a man or a young guy who was not your normal archetype – perhaps rather physically plain from your point of view – yet you couldn’t help but find yourself drawn to him? Wanting to know more? I know when I was at College/University, there was a guy in our lecture who was really quite physically unappealing – yet one day us girls all decided at the same time that there was “something about him”.That something was a quiet, self-assured, unshakable self-confidence and masculine pride.
The coveted feeling of self-confidence
This happens to everyone! Why? Well, I’m no scientist but it’s likely because it is natural for us human beings to have moments where we feel like we are not enough. So, if someone seems to have that rare leadership skill, that so coveted ’secret’ to being confident, then we want to know more! Plus, once we find out the ’secret’ – we still want more – because a person who is reassured and confident is amazing to be around! It gives other human beings the ‘ok’ to be themselves regardless of any so-called ‘imperfections’. In fact – it’s the way that person makes us feel, as well.
A person who is self-confident has more radiance, they are more likely to get what they want – more likely to be happy and to have more gumption (get up and go attitude). From a woman’s point of view – she can be fascinating and mysterious as well as exciting and stimulating by starting to live in her feminine because men simply don’t relate to this way of life and being. Also, if a man lives in his masculine confidently – we’re more likely to be drawn to him.
The strategies
If you practice being mysterious with strategies often, yet you are not confident within yourself, you’ll eventually find it tiring. A lack of confidence leads to conforming. You will be running around, letting the current take you wherever it wants to take you. You’ll also likely be a victim to other people’s ‘talk’ and negative beliefs. Most women have been around a group of women who like to bitch, back-stab, complain – and basically have nothing good to say. If you’re like them internally, you’ll unknowingly reflect it on the outside, too.
I once heard a TV presenter discuss hair color on women with another presenter, and one of them said ‘I think there’s a certain mystery to brunettes’. I found this interesting, and started thinking about it. If you’re fine being yourself, and being a leader rather than a follower, you’ll attract people to you, and these people will want more. Also, they will want to know more about you.
I just want to tell you this: We all have something extraordinary inside of us. The feeling of self-confidence is not easy to come by. We want to be around people like this and want to know more about them because we all know there is that extraordinary thing inside of us – and we want more of it, and seeing somebody else with it tends to make us want it more and bring out more of it within ourselves.
We’ve all seen groups of women together who look the same. They don’t look the same because they’ve got the same natural facial features, they look the same because they feel the same on the inside, and therefore they exude the same energy which we humans pick up on.
Women who are not mysterious
There are plenty of women running around, flaunting their sexuality for example. There is no mystery to these people. Everything is there for all to see. Yes, men will chase them, but they will chase them for easy sex, not because they want to love them and protect them forever.
If a woman readily flaunts her sexuality, and wears revealing clothing and talks loud etc, everyone knows subconsciously why she’s doing it. Every human being knows what it’s like to want attention, this is easy to understand. Every human being knows what it’s like to feel like they are not enough, and this feeling gives us pain. We don’t want pain – we want someone who can make us happy and someone whom we can experience pleasure with.
The people who flaunt themselves for attention are unaware that people know why they’re doing it. People just don’t buy that stuff long-term! Maybe for a night of sex. We all become who we spend our time with. Our peers say a lot about us. Women hang around in packs generally, and there are plenty of groups of women who hang around together and their mission is to look hot and get as much attention as possible and ‘capture’ the guys.
Insecurity is easy to come by. Do you follow me? I’m saying that there’s no mystery in people who exude a low of sense of self-worth. We’ve all been there, we’ve all felt what its like to think we’re not enough. It’s part of life. Life is here to challenge us. It’s the rare individual who can stand out from the rest and be a leader/be confident that makes people want to know more about them and be around them (there’s more to it than that, but for the moment we’re talking about mystery).
On couples….
Have you ever noticed that couples who have been together for a long time start to look alike? This is cute, yes, but I think there’s a bad side to this. Ideally, in a relationship where you are still madly in love and hot for each other, you’ll see some differences clearly. You’ll see polarity.
The women who relate completely to Men….
I also often see women take up their man’s passion in order to connect with him and to feel more loved by him. I know women taking up golf competitively for example, in order to connect with their man and be more accepted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing a sport that he likes for fun, but if you go along with him all the time, and start to do what he does, the way he does it – he now gets you. He understands you; there’s no mystery. This is why being ‘one of the boys’ is not beneficial. If you relate completely to men on their level, and they can relate to you 100% – you’ve lost the mystery.
Ideally, when he plays golf/soccer/football/darts/goes fishing – you will be shopping, having a picnic, having your girlfriends over, and basically just doing the things that girls do. You can still play sports with him – but it’s the women who relate to their men who lose the mystery. It’s the women who make these male-dominated sports in to a competition (like all masculine men do – they want to be challenged and want to compete) then men can relate.
Understanding Men is markedly different from RELATING to them
You still need to understand men. Feminine women understand men, but relating to them is a different thing. Understanding means that you can appreciate, accept, distinguish and comprehend. To relate means that you are joined with him – that you unite with him (in the less preferable way!) There is a good way to unite with him!!
Positives and Negatives
I am not much of a science student, but I’m going to talk about magnetism for a short second. Positive attracts negative. A positive end of a magnet will never attract a positive end of another magnet and vice versa. If you are not authentic in any way, are always available, and relate to your man completely, then you will have trouble being mysterious. You must have your own feminine interests that he doesn’t relate to if you want to be mysterious to men.
The point of this post is to encourage you to develop your feminine core, and use the strategies I mentioned in the first part of ‘How to Be Mysterious‘ when you feel you need to. Admittedly, there will be times when things get a bit too comfortable and predictable. That’s when you need to use the strategies I have given you. Otherwise, work your womanly attributes, and you’ll certainly have an advantage over your not as feminine sisters naturally when it comes to being mysterious. Remember to start from the inside-out.
Even if we put aside the feminine/masculine business for a moment, and think about mystery in general. If for example you’re in a social group, and find that everyone acts the same (who you spend time with is who you become!!) if there is a person who is strong enough to be themselves, and is different to the rest – this captures people’s attention. Humans notice contrast. The reason an authentic person who is a leader IS mysterious is because of many things, but one reason is because they have something which everybody wants – confidence. And if you’re a leader, everyone suddenly wants to know whatchya got
Authenticity is power. Everyone is born unique – but we don’t all end up unique. Most people will tend to blend in and try to fit in in order to gain acceptance, to conform, and to be safe. That’s it! I hope that all made sense.
Soignee – i feel really angry and limited reading some of your list, and really inspired by some of it – especially the part about washing my body with my hands
I hold my head high, and my body open and relaxed – I liked this part of your list too.
I wear sneakers when I travel and all around the world men check out me and my beautiful sneakers.
I was a happy lil girl with one barbie and who liked to play with trucks and fight other boys AND girls outside.
The thing about the outside stuff is that it may be different for each one of us what WE consider beautiful is what matters for US.
to me femininity is an INSIDE JOB OF LOVING all parts of me. Outside things are not so relevant, but they can make good experiments and stuff to do if I feel inspired to them.
I can not shave my legs and men love it. I cuss and men love it.
Femininity to me is not about “toning down” the strong and unique parts of me, but reather LOVING LOVING LOVING all of me and showing it. This way I look Adorable in pijamas. So that people stare at me all around at the glow I give off.
A lot of people talk about respect, and how men should respect women. Unfortunately, with men, (whether they consciously know it or not) respect is not always automatic, and neither is it mandatory. There are women who command respect at the highest level, and there are women who command no respect at all.
We must remember that respect is earned. So what IS respect? Respect from a man (or from any person for that matter!) happens when you believe another person has value to bring to the table! Or when you have something of value to bring to the other person. This could be in many different forms. As feminine women, we want respect from the best kind of men. From men who respect themselves, and are, basically, good men! There are men out there who simply won’t give respect or anything at all! These men are the egocentric type. I will talk more about that at a later date.
So where does femininity come in to all of this? The highest level of respect from a man – a gentleman who is masculine, comes when you are not afraid to be a woman. It comes when you become a fantastic caring mother, wife/girlfriend, daughter, sister, friend, etc. This respect comes because you are embodying who you are at your core, and most of all, it comes because it allows men to be men! It gives them the freedom to feel like men. I know you’ve probably heard it before, but true femininity is all too rare!
At a very basic level, (taking out the idea of femininity) – respect is earned when you hold yourself to a very high standard. And do what you do with passion, with consideration for others, and with integrity. If you do more than anyone else can possibly expect of you – you will earn respect.
More importantly, you must be comfortable in yourself, and be authentic, not fake. It’s important that you are not afraid to be unique and do not need the approval of other people for who you are and what your beliefs are. A woman should still be able to hold her own with a man and stimulate him.
I have said, above, that respect comes when you can bring value to the other person. So, a man can respect any woman who brings value to the table, but if you want to be respected as a feminine woman, and be respected more than he respects anyone else, it is the feminine value that you can bring to him on top of other things that really brings it to the next level. So, men can respect women as human beings, but men can also respect women as feminine souls at the same time as respecting women for all the other tings they can bring to the table.
There are a lot of women out there who believe that by being ‘one of the boys’ they will get more love and respect from men. This is not true (especially when it comes to being loved and cherished). In fact, men might get confused! How do you deal with a woman who looks like a woman, yet relates completely to men?! Do they muck about with you like their guy friends? Or do they take extra care of you like they would a feminine woman who exhibits that ever so valuable trait – vulnerability?
So, how else can we command respect from a man? Well, as well as all the above, take care of him! And do it better than any other woman could. Let men be men. Do not try and control him or his whereabouts or check up on him regularly – or CONSTANTLY! If he wants to do a man’s thing instead of going for a picnic with you, or taking you shopping, let him do that regularly and be fair! Give him freedom and understand that you have to let him be, do, and feel like a man should feel.
You can command respect from a man by showing up as who you really are at your core – a truly feminine woman. If this sounds silly, or too simplistic – I am saying it because most women do not realise that just by being a woman – does not mean you are feminine! Just by dressing in pretty dresses, loving children and animals, or enjoying shopping – does not make you truly feminine! Femininity is true when it shows in your character! We also need to appreciate and understand masculinity. If we can understand men, and appreciate what they bring to the table, then this helps to build mutual respect as he respects you for your you bring to the table.
I felt angry at the don’ts. I do DO all of the do’s. And simply don’t think I have to limit myself with Don’ts if I feel good doing them and I feel magnetic doing them.
if you read attentively, I wrote that these are not my text, but I found them and offered them to ladies, just for a challenge and information. Maybe someone will find some interesting insight in them. I did, maybe someone else can find some ideas.
I love new ideas, I love new habits and new thoughts, I love new insights I can interchange with other people.
“I also often see women take up their man’s passion in order to connect with him and to feel more loved by him. I know women taking up golf competitively for example, in order to connect with their man and be more accepted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing a sport that he likes for fun, but if you go along with him all the time, and start to do what he does, the way he does it – he now gets you. He understands you; there’s no mystery. This is why being ‘one of the boys’ is not beneficial. If you relate completely to men on their level, and they can relate to you 100% – you’ve lost the mystery.”
OMGOSH. I was totally relating to my guy friends at that time. I did not know the feminine part of me. I’m SOOO GLAD I got dumped and discovered it, FOR REAL.
hehehehee…
yes i feel a lil sad for the girl that I was , but I feel SO GLAD for the woman I am now
and yes I can still choose to relate WHEN I WANT TO,
but I also know my feminine self. ha. its just a “magic shift” away
Daria and Orna Thank you for the encouragement! Yes, I am circuit dating and will continue to do so. You are so right Daria, Victor had nothing to offer me but great sex. I did express that I did not want to get my feeling wrapped up so soon after our break up and that I wanted to get to know him again and that I felt confused. I stated “I would love to make you to you! That would be so wonderful! I’m feeling confused. And would like to know you again.” He stated “I’m still the same guy.” I left the conversation alone from that point. He then stated he was going to bed and have a good sleep.
I had already planned out my weekend and will continue to circuit date, as I realize Victor is not emotionally ready for me at this point. He just lost his job as a university professor and is also loosing his home. I cannot allow myself to be a door mat while he goes through his difficulties however, I will be the kind loving person that I truly am to everyone. I will treat him equitably, but will not allow myself to get wrapped up him. Currently, I have four guys in my circuit rotation.
Soignee – THANK YOU for posting these. They are full of insights indeed.
PS – I feel defensive reading your last post to me – that they are not yours – I feel like theres defending going on.
I feel like my expressing that I feel angry is being heard as an attack. Which I don’t want – though I often feel this is the case in General – aha a trigger.
NEW TOOL TO SAY OUTLOUD CALLED: ASK AND RECEIVE
A part of my being already knows, that even though I feel afraid that expressing my anger will be heard by others as an attack, this trigger is being healed now.
I allow that part of my being to inform the rest of me now.
That part of my being is informing the rest of me now.
Information transfer is now complete.
****
Soignee I still feel a lil on eggshells around you because thinking back I feel afraid and angry from feeling criticized in the past.
I think the KEY is that you don’t Lose Yourself. Many women simply morph into a version of their man – liking what he likes, doing what he likes to do.
My husband calls it “Twisting into a pretzel to get love.” Men do it too.
It is vital to be clear on WHO You are and what you REQUIRE in relationship.
Attraction is actually created from the DIFFERENCES between two people – not their similarities. This is the dance of relationship.
I feel attracted by the differences between our bodies and by the similarities between the other aspects of us. My ex and I are too different; I feel unattracted by that.
Yes there certainly has to be some similarities. I look it like two circles that overlap a bit.
In a healthy relationship the similarities come from our human-ness, our One-ness, and the differences are most apparent in what we require in relationship.
When we have everything in common with someone, there is no spark, no attraction – that’s a friend.
Julie, Welcome, and Circular Dating will heal you. Just start. You’ll find help here, and in my Targeting Mr. Right Program. Please stop investing yourself in any one man unless he’s about to marry you. Love, Rori
I feel such a pitty you feel afraid of me in the past.
You are such a beautiful goddess and your feeling expressions are so beautiful, too. You have such a nice vibe in the recent posts, I feeli admiration about your nice energy.
You are really good at feeling expressing. I loved your description of dancing. I love your natural feminine attitude. So I do like you. You do not have to feel afraid, maybe you can understand me what I meant in the past.
But I enjoy your beautiful nice energy. You are a great goddess. These are my feelings for you.(I do not bite people, and especially nice ones, :)))
Orna – “When we have everything in common with someone, there is no spark, no attraction – that’s a friend.”
Wow, Orna, this is really food for thought for me. Maybe that is why TN man is in no hurry to drive ten hours to meet me — he has already met me in himself!
We have so much in common, and I feel wildly attracted to him because of what we have in common (the same kind of weirdness). Is that unusual, to be attracted to someone because you are so similar?
And is it possible that he doesn’t feel quite as attracted to me because we are so similar? (He expresses major attraction, but he has not made the trip.)
Hmm. I didn’t “twist myself into a pretzel” — I already was like him. Is it possible to twist myself into a pretzel to be UNLIKE him?
Because you have not met him you do not have the answer. This relationship is NOT REAL. It is completely imaginary. It only exiss in your mind.
You won’t know about similarities or differences or attraction or any of that until you meet face to face.
You believe that the two of you are similar because you have projected yourself onto him (and your idea of what you desire onto him).
Please Circular Date and treat yourself like the most precious object on the planet.
You may not like me saying it, but the sooner you move on, (and see if he steps up) the better off you’ll be when you see you’ve literally WASTED TIME.
I know you’ll say how much you’ve “received” from him – but the hard cold facts are that what you think you “received” from HIM you’ve given to yourself using him as the vessel.
Get out of this fantasy and join us in the real world. There are GREAT opportunities for you here!
Orna — “This relationship is NOT REAL” sounds like something I do not believe, as Daria says. We have been round and round this issue on here, and I feel frustrated when I feel as though my beliefs are not being respected. The relationship does NOT exist only in my mind. It is okay for you to not feel comfortable with this type of relationship for yourself, but it feels bad when people insist that I share their opinions on that. It is similar to when people have a relationship with God — they do not have to see God to have a relationship with God. We are spiritual beings, not confined to physical bodies. We are all connected to one another. We can know each other’s hearts without being in physical proximity. It is not imaginary — I did not produce this relationship in my imagination.
I DO circular date and treat myself like the most precious object on the planet. (although I wouldn’t use the word “object.”) There is no need to “move on” because I have never stopped moving in the first place. I am not wasting any time because I am not standing still — I am doing all the things I want to be doing, meeting men, living my life. I have the ability to love a man yet still be open to other men, therefore I am not wasting my time. Maybe I have a bit of that polyamory ability that Erika has mentioned. I feel curious about that.
I feel sad that you think I am wasting my time by having fun with an amazing guy. He gives me joy, intellectual stimulation, nurturing, laughs, and so much more. He does not take anything away from me and my life.
“what you think you “received” from HIM you’ve given to yourself using him as the vessel.” — YES! You’ve got it!! We are all ONE — we are all always only giving to ourselves because we are all that there is, there is only one of us — and there are different vessels! Love comes to me through him as a vessel. Thats it exactly. We are all only vessels of the same love.
I feel amused and shocked by this: “Get out of this fantasy and join us in the real world. There are GREAT opportunities for you here!” I am in the real world, just as much as anyone else on here is. Wow. That feels shocking to hear that. I feel curious about why you seem so triggered by me. You seem almost angry.
There’s no anger on my part. I think that is the one limitation of text only communication because TONE is the choice of the reader.
I am not angry, nor triggered. What you hear is frustration as I hear you wanting MORE from this relationship and then vacillate to defend it in its current form when you receive Expert advice.
As I’m here to help, that is my intention. To assist You, to empower You.
If what you desire is a true intimate relationship, a spiritual partnership, I know how to create that. I am the most unlikely candidate to have the amazing relationship I have today with my husband. I empower my clients to create that, and my goal is to empower you to have that too.
I agree with everything you say about spirit and love – We are all One. However in my view what is spirit and what is of solid form here in 3D are not interchangeable.
If you never mentioned wanting to meet this man… If you were truly fulfilled with a “phone friendship”…
If you were satisfied with things as they stand in every layer of your being…
THEN I would not have made my statement about “the real world.”
I certainly apologize if you feel you are being disrespected.
It is your unfulfilled desires in this “relationship” (which you have expressed here) that make me question how you truly treat yourself, how you truly value yourself.
Hi Orna, I don’t have time right now to respond to everything you wrote, but for now I will say that I disagree that “TONE is the choice of the reader.”
TONE is a component of writing, chosen by the author. Here is a definition for you:
“Tone in writing refers to the writer’s attitude toward the reader and the subject of the message. The overall tone of a written message affects the reader just as one’s tone of voice affects the listener in everyday exchanges” (Ober 88).
Orna, I, too, know how to create a true intimate spiritual relationship. That is the point I have been trying to make with you. You say that you are the most unlikely candidate to have this kind of relationship — but, truthfully, I am actually a very LIKELY candidate to have this kind of relationship. People who know me, know that about me. And, honestly, the relationship I have with him IS that kind of relationship. In fairness to you, I will say that it is the kind of thing one probably can’t understand unless one has experienced it. It may also be something that many people are unable to experience — it requires a certain type of person, with specific spiritual traits that are very uncommon. Maybe it is beyond the scope of this forum. I had hoped that, even though I am different, I would be able to share here and find support for the journey.
The only thing missing with him is a physical relationship — that is what you hear me expressing on here as lacking. I do have physical relationships with other men, but I would enjoy a physical relationship with this man whom I have connected with already on an intimate spiritual and emotional level. Using your terms, in other words, we have what is “spirit” but not what is “solid form.”
Thank you for accepting my apology. I truly mean no harm, certainly no disrespect, and I want more than anything for you to feel heard by me.
I hear you. I do.
Only you know what is in your heart.
I am a deeply spiritual person. It is part of my life purpose to remind people of their connection to the Divine.
I am also, whether for good or bad, a very passionate person. If you listened to the interview my husband and I did with Rori it is quite evident that I am passionate about empowering others.
I truly desire for you to feel fulfilled, satisfied, loved and cherished on all levels.
Thank you, Orna — I hear your loving intentions strongly here — this seems to be written from a higher energy level, closer to unconditional love (which is a higher energy than empowerment)
Sometimes when we are “passionate about empowering others” we make the mistake of thinking (often unconsciously) that other people’s experiences are supposed to look like ours. I feel happy for you that you have found your amazing relationship. I feel glad, too, that you desire to help others. I believe that we are all teachers of ourselves and each other, by virtue of living and interacting on this planet, and that every experience that enters our lives has shown up in order to teach us something.
Sia, you are right. I was my predictable self. Annoyed that he was going out.
The usual way i always am, I feel disappointed that
he always makes plans and i am never ever included.
Unless it involves the kids and we have to go.
I am not in a real relationship, its more like a business deal.
He does his thing and i can do what i like, and we come together for sex.
The only thing i get from him is him home occassionaly at night, help with the kids sports etc and sex.
No conversation, No fun, No outings..
I am trying ladies, I have a long way to go.
I blew it last night or at 3am this am. When he snuck in, and showered downstairs.. IT was like he was was away some guilt..
I was up, one of the kids was ill. was tending to them and i heard a noise downstairs and went to investigate, was shocked to see him there, and he went off at me thinking i was checking up on him..
So it escalated from there..
So last night was the 3rd night not sleeping in same bed, refusing eye contact and making sure we don’t touch each other..
I am trying and i do read all the post.
They are very informative, but i do get information overload and i an not sure where to start and how to act.
I am an open book, there is no mystery with me, its written all over my face.
I am trying thank you for being supportive and not judging me.
He slept on the coach last night, won’t talk to me, thats nearly a week now.
It feels like Deja Vu, he’s left before and its always footy season, so he can feel better about going out thurs, frid ,sat & sun nights and watching the games. thats every week, and when the season is over, he needs us again..
How do i deal with this, its horrible.
My kids are at an age that they really understand more and more and see whats going on..
For helping me find this link; it’s what I needed to do
Anyway. the guy who is in my singles Sunday School group, who has been flirting with me, then was rude and went after that other gal full-throttle, was in Sunday School, this morning, and she came in right after he did, went right over and sat down beside him. (They both came in late, as usual).
When he went by the table where I was sitting (I’m the membership officer, so sit at a table in the back of the room, to greet people as they come in), he absent-mindedly waved, like he is used to doing that. I didn’t wave back; I was paying attention to the speaker, who was already talking at that time.
I just didn’t pay him any attention at all, although I wanted to. I was busy, after the class was over, and he and she were both near the table, but neither spoke to me.
I thought she and I were becoming friends, and then I sent her an Email, letting her know that I know she smokes, and I can’t be around smoke, because both my parents died of COPD, from smoking; she acknowledged that Email, said ok about the smoking. I haven’t heard from her since; she doesn’t answer my texts, and 2 weeks ago, when I went to speak to her after class, she was talking to someone else.
Anyway, I just am not waiting around for him; they’ll do what they like. In the meantime, I’m living my life.
I am done with him, and have moved on. I was proud of myself! What do ya’ll think of this?
I have a little problem that I need you all to help me with. I met this guy and we instantly clicked and then it all went down hill. I did not hear from him in a month and then on VDay he called and the moment was awkward. Well anyway, last week he came over and we talked a little bit and then we had sex. I wanted to have sex.. I was not forced or pushed or anything like that so that is not my issue. My issue is that I love this man but feels like he puts everything in life before me. Work, his kids, EVERYTHING… In the beginning it was all abut seeing and talking to TW and now it is different. I would love for him to move in with me and start out loves together with our children. He has expressed to me that I am the one and has even mentioned having another baby with me. I would love to conceive again but I am not sure if he were telling me what I wanted to hear or was he actually telling the truth. I am not on birth control and we are exclusive sexually so we are no longer using condoms so he knows that there is a risk every time of me having a baby… What do you guys think?
I feel you are putting yourself in a dangerous position having unprotected sex with a man you did not hear from for a month. And I also feel that you should not be exclusive with a man who puts everything else in his life before you. Sexual exclusivity is fine, WITH PROTECTION. TOTAL exclusivity is NOT fine until he is putting you first. How would you feel if you did end up getting pregnant and this man never steps up? Are you OK with the possibility of raising another baby alone if he doesn’t?
I know we live in 21st century, but some communities are still racist and stereotypical in thought.
I’m in an interracial relationship. I knew what I was getting myself into. I knew that I would risk people making horrible untrue judgements of me. My parents are really concerned about that, and are probably racist themselves too. They say they care about me that’s why they warn me to not be with him, even just as friends.
So he finally tells me he wants a break because he wants my family and me to be happy. But how can I be happy if I go against my wishes, sucking up to strangers who don’t care about me, just to be safe but unhappy?
What am I supposed to do? He’s the few guys who actually understand where I’m coming from, because he’s gone through so much also. Should I give that up for people’s “respect” and so my reputation isn’t tarnished? Which would be better in the long run?
As for me, I just got back from a fabulous weekend out of town. I flew up to check out the town where my new job will be located and one of my circular dating guys who is military and stationed about an hour south of that town drove up and picked me up from the airport. We spent the weekend experiencing the town and the surrounding area. We had great food, wine, conversation and affection. I leaned back the entire time and he took care of everything and seemed to just want to show me a fabulous time. He kept saying I seemed more feminine, relaxed and different and how unbelievably attractive he found that, and I had to laugh to myself because the last time I saw him was before I started Rori’s programs. I used to be really nervous around this man. He is a young marine officer that is so handsome he could be on posters for them. Because I felt mentally and physically attracted to him, I used to constantly stress about whether or not he liked me, how things could work given the age difference, distance and his career etc.
This weekend was totally different. I went in with no expectations, no doubts, no insecurities. I saw it as going up to check it out to see if it was a good place and job to fit into MY life and just saw him as some company along the way. I could even visualize me moving forward on my bridge and him joining me and walking side by side with me for a little while. And what a difference! I felt so relaxed and happy the whole time. We even slept in the same bed without having sex and he held and kissed me all night and the feeling was just so amazing as I have not had that in quite awhile.
But the funny thing is, when I left I just felt so confident that whatever will happen will happen. If I see him again, great. If not, that’s fine as well. I’m alfready looking forward to another date with Mr. Fabulous from my own town, and the weekend with Hot Marine took away my anxieties about whether or not Mr. Fabulous is as into me as I am into him as well!
I really wish I could find the right words to express the difference in dating this way. It is SO worth weeding through the bad circular dates to get this feeling. It’s almost like a feeling of PEACE. After rowing and over functioning and stressing and worrying and feeling insecure my entire dating life, I feel like I’m on vacation on some tropical island. And friends and family keep telling me I look and seem so rested and relaxed. It’s fabulous!
Oh, and by the way, Hot Marine isnisted on paying for the hotel, food, drinks, EVERYTHING! Even though he knew it was a business trip and I had an expense account to cover everything! He WANTED to provide me with a fantastic weekend!
I am new to this site, I would like to ask a question and get some help.
My Ex husband and I are talking about getting back together, depression caused our break up. My problem is that he wants to remain separated in the public eye, but our little secret is that we are back together. That picture just is not right, and I have not agree’d to it.
He says we will still be exclusive, not date, but it will help us financially if we stay separated.
Money is his issue and always has been. if we get back together, he will feel obligated to put more money toward the house and kids, we will pay more child care.
I really want my marriage back, I am not sure how to talk to him about this ?
Hi everyone! Its been a couple days but I think its begining to work!! Friday I spent the day with my best friend and didnt get home till way after he did and last night I went out dancing and just hanging out having fun. Today he actually wanted to get a movie to watch, he rented Couples Retreat and we watched it. We were in seperate chairs but in the same room…..after the movie he got up and made the comment that it was a good movie because it showed what happens when someone gets married and then forgets what they have. Not sure if Im seeing more than is really there, but I took it as a step in the right direction. He also told me that he initially went out with me cause I wasnt like every other woman out there, but that he would like it if I could be a little more girly (I admit I am not). So I think im gonna work on that a little.
Just wanted to share my good news with all of you. And as always you all are wonderful!!!!
I am far from an expert, it sounds good to me, that too would make my day.
I am really happy for you.. Yehh !!
mine’s a total disaster, he emailed me today, says he’d prefer not to come home it would just be easier, he feels closed in, financially and socially. It would be easier for him to off himself or move out.
Great choice, I did not email or call him, he should not have email that too me, but he always does. He runs when he gets depressed.
I feel after reading lots today he is serverly depressed and it will get worse if he does not seek help especially seeing its been going on for years, with such a distinct pattern..
Oh my sorry
this is you moment,, so happy for you Stace, thats awesome, looking forward to more happy comments coming from you and keep you eye out I know I will post one and also change my name..
when i started all this [my husband was on his way out ..]
things got better really fast
and started to make sense and fall into place
but…
i dont get the ‘i love you’, ‘i miss you ‘ stuff anymore.
as if im being watched to see if i succeed in building my life out of him in the relationship.. like a test.
[sex and affection has come back though]
what is going on? is he turning me into a buddy?
do i bring it up? am i too greedy? do i give time?
1: Lucy
says:
Okay! Today I am feeling this throw-caution-to-the-wind feeling that is telling me this: why not just totally give in to TN man being a FRIEND. Drop the feeling messages, just treat him like a friend, therefore giving up on the idea of him being more than a friend and then I won’t be disappointed. Accept him as a friend. Tell him anything and everything I want to, just like a real friend. Give up hoping for more. Because right now I can’t totally be FRIENDS with him because I am holding back that part of my heart that wants it to be more. What do you think??? Thanks!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:46am
2: Lucy
says:
That way maybe my heart would be more open to someone ELSE coming along to be my happily ever after.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:47am
3: Lucy
says:
I have a date with a new guy in an hour. Not looking forward to it.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:48am
4: tinque
says:
I support you wholeheartedly with this Lucy…
Being open, expecting nothing leaves you available for all kinds of surprises from all kinds of unlikely sources.
xxoo
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 11:05am
5: Daria
says:
Lucy -
I personally was not able to “give up hoping for more” nor have I heard of a woman who was, without a long period of no contact.
Even now without contact for a long time with my friend/lover I would still be hoping for more.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 11:10am
6: Daria
says:
I do support being open! Including telling him I feel sad and I’m hoping for more.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 11:11am
7: Siena
says:
Hi Rori,
Here’s my question: You have said that men come and go. I’ve seen this in my own life numerous times. They come and go, and then come back.
My question is, how do I respond when one comes back? Is it as easy as using feeling messages when he returns?
If I am feeling upset that he left, it doesn’t feel appropriate to share those feelings with him, especially if he’s been gone for a while (2 weeks or more). But to behave like everything is hunky-dorey between us also feels inauthentic.
And although circular dating does lessen the feelings of upset, it doesn’t always make them go away altogether.
Where’s the balance? Does there need to be a balance?
Thank you!
Siena
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 11:14am
8: Marla Warrington
says:
Hi Rori,
I have been receiving your emails for a short time now and most defintely agree with your advice and new approach to a frustrating situation.
My situation however is allot harder to remedy; he lives in Colorado & I live in Florida.
I just returned last night from a weekend with him in Colorado.
It just happened that the timing worked out for me to travel this particular weekend but by far it was not a Valentine weekend that was planned. Of course this morning I receive an email from him saying “It was a nice weekend and that he has lots of work ahead of him that he needs to focus on and let’s just simply be in the moment with the trip.” Basically he (David) just reverted back to his “keeping this casual, no commitment, no expectations” mindset after even discussing potential trips yesterday (face-to-face). In all honesty, I “felt” him allow himself to get close over the weekend, I also saw something different in his eyes, they seemed softer and less gaurded.
I guess I have just seen this same old scene between him and I over and over again, that I simply do not even know how to feel or react anymore. Could your program help a long distance situation? Do I stay non-reactive to his email this morning?
I am truly at a loss right now.
Sincerely,
Marla Warrignton
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 11:23am
9: Daria
says:
Siena- share how you feel when he does contact you. If you feel excited say that. If you’re feeling upset that you havent heard from him say that.
I usually say both. It works in that they usually address my upset.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 12:07pm
10: Alisa
says:
Well, my question is did i bail too quickly? My guy and I were friends for two years and just decided to date in Jan. Now we are broken up. We were doing great and then I went back to my old ways. Being anxious, demanding, moody, and pressuring. It pushed him away and he started withdrawing. And as my usual thing I decided that if he wasnt going to be around then i would end it before he did. Now i feel like i made a huge mistake. Like i jumped too soon and messed everything up. Is there a chance that I could get things back or should I just deal and go on using this experience as a lesson?
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 12:41pm
11: Simply Shannon
says:
Subscribing!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 2:20pm
12: Starlight_29
says:
Hi lovelies im just here to gain some strength and say hiya! xoxoxoxoxox
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 2:32pm
13: Siena
says:
Daria, thank you for your response. I wish I could feel excitement and upset at the same time, but I can’t.
I feel like if I happen to be in a happy mood when he calls, I will be letting him off the hook for bad behavior, in essence communicating to him that it’s OK with me for him to leave (which it’s not).
But if am upset with him when he calls, I fear that he won’t want to approach me again. I know I wouldn’t want to be close to someone whose first communication with me in a long time was one with upset feelings.
My authentic self feels upset. But I feel that communicating that feeling outside of an intimate relationship is inappropriate… and if he’s been gone for 2 weeks or more, I feel the intimacy is greatly reduced – if not gone – and needs to be built back up.
What am I not understanding here?
Siena
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 3:10pm
14: dorothea
says:
Alisa, were you exclusive with him? I feel much more moody, anxious, and demanding when I am not circular dating because I have blindly handed over my future to being chosen BY a man who could potentially string me along forever until he shows me otherwise. An exclusive dating relationship in this context should make any woman moody, anxious, and demanding!
If this is the case, you could tell him you feel sad about having acting that way, and you realize that you will feel moody, anxious, and demanding as long as you are in an exclusive situation in which you feel unsure of whether it will offer you the happily ever after you want. Let him know you feel bad about not realizing this earlier, and that you are going to be accepting offers for dates from other men until someone comes along and REALLY takes you off the market.
Please start circular dating immediately if you haven’t already.
I’m not the best at the no girlfriend speech so maybe the other ladies here or Rori can help me tweak this right…
i luv u and your moody needy demanding feelings, girl!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 3:34pm
15: Daria
says:
Siena -
it seems what you’re missing is that communicating feelings is appropriate in all situations.
The missing piece is this: communicating Feelings is about YOU. It makes YOU feel good inside. A part of us lights up when we express our feelings.
It’s good to use them everywhere… as Rori says with the butcher, the baker, the candle stick maker. with women and children.
So the communicating feelings is important for YOU. not for what “result” you might have with him.
Although the “results” do happen.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 3:34pm
16: dorothea
says:
oh yeah, i forgot to mention you can tell him you still feel open to dating him, but you don’t want to feel moody and anxious or demanding anymore. Then ask him “what do you think?”
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 3:37pm
17: Lucy
says:
Daria – what you said in that last comment is where I get hung up. Like, if I tell TN man what I’m really feeling: “I feel sad that we haven’t met yet” -or- what I’m REALLY feeling: “I feel sad that you’re not rushing up here because you can’t stand another minute of not being with me” — then isn’t that Leaning Forward even though it’s a Feeling Message? Isn’t it pressuring him, pursuing him, even though it is a Feeling Message?? Isn’t it the same kind of thing as saying “I love you” first???
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:01pm
18: Daria
says:
Lucy –
I said this to a man before: “I feel so much love for you right now!” and it was true and felt good to say.
The thing with TN man is, he’s not stepping up right now.
No it’s not leaning forward to tell him what you’re REALLY feeling.
And yes he may feel pressured, which he already does probably, because he can FEEL on a gut level what you desire and he hasn’t stepped up to give it to you.
I would say this, mostly to avoid the pressure of the YOU’s :
“I feel sad. I want a man that I feel close to like I do with you to rush up here because he can’t stand another minute of not being with me. And that hasn’t happened and I’m feeling bad. What do you think?”
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:09pm
19: dorothea
says:
hey lucy i know your comment isn’t directed toward me but it looks to me like your REALLY feeling message of sad that he is not rushing up there because he can’t stand another minute not being with you is actually a feeling message AND a don’t want statement.
So: I FEEL sad we haven’t met yet, and I DON’T WANT to hang around waiting for a man who doesn’t want to see me as soon as possible.”
That feels yucky, desperate, whatever. And U don’t want to feel that way. You need to feel desired, important, special, whatever.
And then “what do you think?”
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:09pm
20: Daria
says:
Yeah Dorothea!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:13pm
21: Lucy
says:
Thanks Daria and Dorothea. This part: “And yes he may feel pressured, which he already does probably, because he can FEEL on a gut level what you desire and he hasn’t stepped up to give it to you.” What about situations where a girl and guy eventually find out that they have each been pining for the other but didn’t say anything b/c they didn’t think the feeling was mutual? I have seen that happen a lot (and, in fact, TN man said that’s what happened with his last relationship). So, isn’t it therefore possible that he does NOT realize how I feel?
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:22pm
22: dorothea
says:
Sure it’s possible. But what he does or does not do or know is not the point here. How you feel and what you don’t want are what’s important.
Please always ask yourself how YOU feel first, before wondering if he is just thinking this or that, or going through this or that, or not even realizing this or that.
For example, saying “i’m feeling sad that YOU haven’t rushed up here to see me” is about what HE’S doing. Expressing that you DON’T WANT that, on the other hand, is about YOU. it’s clear, it lets him know where you’re at, and it gives him the opportunity to say something about it when you ask him what he thinks.
This is a little trickier: the idea is not to be attached to the outcome either. Because you are telling him how you feel so as to honor your feelings (your truth!) and not so much to control what he does.
I feel terrible right now, though, because I feel like my explanations aren’t very good and I might be confusing. Love to you!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:32pm
23: Lucy
says:
I feel surprised that you feel terrible Dorothea! I feel very grateful and NOT confused by your help! <3
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:35pm
24: dorothea
says:
Thanks lucy i’m feelin supported by your comment:)
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:37pm
25: Lucy
says:
How about: “I feel sad that we haven’t met yet. I don’t want to keep feeling curious about what it would be like to be with you. What do you think?”
I know I can’t be attached to the outcome, and it doesn’t matter how I think he will respond, but he would probably say something like: “Sit with that sad feeling, let yourself feel it fully without judging it, labeling it, or telling yourself stories about it; accept and embrace your sadness.” Lol. *sigh*
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:48pm
26: Daria
says:
Lucy – wow! I would feel furious to get that response! (I know its imaginary)
also it seems that you’re tiptoeing around your “stronger” feelings…
in this case, where he to respond that, I would write
I feel furious!!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:54pm
27: Daria
says:
I mean, curious is a cool feeling…
you don’t want to keep feeling curious?
or you don’t want to keep feeling…. sad, longing,
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:55pm
28: Lucy
says:
Really??!! You would feel furious?! It is really what I would expect from him because he is all about present moment awareness and all that — sort of hindu type stuff where the only real happiness comes from letting go of desiring what we don’t have and completely accepting what IS.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 4:58pm
29: Lucy
says:
No, I don’t want to keep feeling curious. I feel curious so much of the time about so many things that, for me, it can become a really uncomfortable feeling when my curiosity is not satisfied!! I like feeling curious, but I don’t like feeling curious for SIX MONTHS about being with a guy!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:00pm
30: Turtle Girl
says:
Lucy-
My question is this: What exactly are you getting out of this relationship that works for you and causes you to want to stay in it? Would you feel the same way IF HE NEVER STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE AND YOU MET HIM? I mean are you willing to continue this just as it is without ever meeting him and that be ok with you? Or is this really something you want to have move forward?
I am not you, but if this were me I would be just getting really frustrated as hell at him being so passive and seeming like he really cares, but then doesn’t want to follow through or take it anywhere.
For me, either we meet or it’s forget it. Relationships are about movement. They either go froward or backward. The ones that stand still to me are in reality moving backward because without forward motion I feel like you got nothin. Just my two cents. Maybe not your deal at all.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:03pm
31: Simply Shannon
says:
Lucy: That would really be his response? If a man said that to me in response to what you just wrote, I’d probably laugh and say “Thank you Dr. Phil.
I feel amused. I also feel a little bored ‘sitting with my feelings’ right now. I think I’ll get a pedicure instead.”
This guy isn’t leaning forward. It might feel good to say this one time but if he doesn’t start rowing, I wouldn’t feel good “waiting” anymore.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:03pm
32: Lucy
says:
Shannon, you made me laugh! One time he said something and I did say, “Okay, boss.
” which is similar to your dr. phil reaction.
It is funny hearing all your reactions to his imaginry response — I am starting to feel curious about what he would actually say! Like an experiment…
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:08pm
33: Lucy
says:
I might just have to follow my curiosity! But right now I want to go see if House is on tv.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:10pm
34: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy: The only way for anyone to know how you feel is for you to EXPRESS how you feel. Sounds simple, and yet we all know that it can be very, very difficult.
I love how Daria so beautifully wrote above how expressing the feeling is about YOU. :~D
To be authentic is to speak what is true for you in that moment. It is possible to go back and say “Yesterday, I felt…” and often times it is easier to start there.
Its all about PRACTICE!!!
xx
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:11pm
35: Lucy
says:
Oooh, here is the answer to your question, TG. What Orna just wrote on another thread: “It was then that I realized I had “grown up” too much. I had abandoned the little girl inside of me. Cultivating that relationship has been the most rewarding of all because it allowed me to step into all of who I can be.”
What I get out of my relationship with him is that we play like little kids. Early on he told me that I am so much like a little girl, and that it is interesting because he is so much like a little boy. The relationship is very playful and fun and loving and interesting. He is extremely smart and fun at the same time, which I adore. We learn a lot from each other too.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:27pm
36: Sasha J
says:
Dear Rori and everyone,
I feel like a little girl in kindergarten;
I recently met someone that I like, on a social sports trip away and I have a major crush!
I feel literally like an awkward boy who likes a girl and have done evrything silly like make jokes and hang around the guy ( although I feel really proud I haven’t called him up etc.)
I feel like I have gone back wards in what I have been learning!! I have been feeling more confident learning all the tools, etc, have even left a toxic relationship….how did i come to this? how do you know if a guy likes you? i feel so embarassed asking this!!
I mean, if they like you they will try to get close to you, no?
what if i have been giving out all these ‘pushing away’ signals by mistake and it’s too late?!
wow! how did i get here?!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 5:58pm
37: Kay
says:
Siena follow your heart, as Bob Grant says a man can’t fight with your heart, the feelings you carry in your heart is your truth. If you say nothing then you will begin to resent him and possibly explode that resentment all over him at some point.
You have to be brave, yes there is a huge possibility that he may stop coming around but honestly if he’s narely barely their anyways your not really missing out on much.
If I had to address how I felt, I would say something along the lines of…
I feel excited to hear from you but after several weeks of no communication I feel sad, friendship and connecting on a regular is important to me and when I don’t hear from people after a certain amount of time I lose interest in rebuilding the connection, I don’t take men seriously that come in and out of my life.
The ball is in his court, he may decide he can only be around every 2 weeks or longer and decide to go away for good, that’s the risk you take, so you either address it or do things on his terms, I myself decided to stop doing things on his term and the relationship dissolved, I wasn’t sad about it at all, I think it’s a give and take type thing be it friendship or a full on relationship, compromise is important to me and we all deserve to get what we want.
It’s just a thought…me thinking out loud, tell me how that makes you feel.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 6:11pm
38: Chrissy
says:
I have a question about how much we tell our current partners about our ex partners?
I used to be in a very abusive relationship. To put it briefly, this man assaulted me, choked me unconcious, broke my arm, threatened to kill me (and was certainly capable of it), stalked me and was eventually found guilty and put on an intensive supervision order (woefully inadequate sentence but most of the assaults were not proveable in court due to me and him being the only witnesses).
I was still going through the court process when I met my current partner. (It had taken 18 months). The ex partner is not in my life in any way and as I have moved, changed numbers, changed vehicles, cannot ever find me (and I believe he has moved on and lost interest, thank God). My BF has never prev wanted to hear about the details of that rel and I certainly did not want to re-live that trauma by discussing it with him.
But lately (we live together and have been together 2 1/2 years now) he has been throwing in offhand remarks and alluding to doubting my version of events. Doubting that it could have been as bad as I made out. Questioning why I remained in an abusive rel (no easy answer – anyone who has been in my shoes knows that)
Hearing those comments feel like I am being stabbed in the stomach (and I have told him that). But how can I expect him to understand if I have never told him the full story.
So – my question is – do I tell him everything? Do I lay myself bare and risk him feeling differently about me (i feel so afraid that he will judge me – as I have judged myself). Am I keeping a wall around me by not disclosing all this or am I right to keep it from him?
Chrissy
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 6:39pm
39: Lori
says:
Kay,
“I feel excited to hear from you but after several weeks of no communication I feel sad, friendship and connecting on a regular is important to me and when I don’t hear from people after a certain amount of time I lose interest in rebuilding the connection, I don’t take men seriously that come in and out of my life.”
I LOVE THIS! This is exactly what I was looking for to explain to one man who seems to think it’s normal to expect exclusivity with contact only every couple of weeks. Thank you!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 6:56pm
40: Rori Raye
says:
Marla, Welcome, and you’re not going to like this – don’t read if you’re not sure you want to. Nothing is happening here. He told you what he feels is the truth – believe him. He’s casual, no commitment, no expectations. Get out of there, please, and start dating men who are actually interested in serious, committed, and forever. Love, Rori
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 7:13pm
41: Kay
says:
You know Chrissy your boyfriend is showing signs he’s lost respect somewhere along the way and it’s turning really toxic for the both of you. I would encourage you to stop discussing your past, it’s done, it’s over and I sense your new beau is very uncomfortable with your past life situation. If you need to vent maybe consider getting some kind of counseling to help you through the healing process, you can’t really expect a man that isn’t abusive to understand what you went through.
I don’t feel disclosing something so volatile will help you connect with him as thus it’s actually pulling you 2 apart. Maybe you need to get clear about boundaries first, get clear about why you chose that relationship in the first place so you can fully explain yourself to him if you have to.
I’m not sure why it’s something you would want to re-live in your current situation and if you have to re-live it wouldn’t it be easier to get some help with how to do that before actually exposing yourself in such a vulnerable way.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 7:50pm
42: Kay
says:
Your welcome Lori, you have no idea how long I had to play around with my thoughts regarding this type of situation, I still juggle around with it and tweak it as to fit the situation, it’s hard to call a man on his behavior when he’s just a friend, or if he was once interested and lost interest etc etc etc, it can feel really complicated but I didn’t let it stop me from going there d:
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 8:00pm
43: Chrissy
says:
Kay
Thank you for responding but wow, your post made me feel really triggered! Why do you think our rel has gotten toxic or that he has lost respect? You saying that made me feel both surprised and a little angry. But I am reminding myself that you are trying to help and can only go on your interpretation of what is written.
Let me clarify though – The past has not been getting discussed. Two and a half years have gone by without mention of it. Recently we ran into someone who knew me then, that was the gateway into him bringing up the topic (perhaps I should have mentioned that in the post) My BF was given brief details when i first met him as I was still going through the criminal court case hearings. I dont feel the need to vent. And rest assured, I got the appropriate counselling at the time and was still getting counselling when I met my BF.
I am also taking on board your comment regarding why I chose that relationship. Rori mentions in one of her CDs about “hiring someone to beat yourself up” and I now know that is exactly what I did (not excusing him in anyway but I chose to be there).
My main reason for considering giving him all the facts is to clear up any misconceptions he may have. When you only have brief outlines, your imagination tends to fill in the blanks and lead you off on a completely wrong tangent and I believe my original efforts to both protect him and me from the full truth has backfired. If I am to be brutally honest with myself, I also want to make sure he is not judging me. Definitely an element of self-interest here I guess.
Rori, I would be extremely grateful if you are able to suggest anything here?
Thanks Chrissy
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 9:34pm
44: Tina
says:
Sasha J, you’ll know he is interested when he calls you and asks for a date with you
did he ask for you number? if he likes you , he will ask , men move mountains 
in the mean time just continue circular dating , whatever that means to you.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:03pm
45: dorothea
says:
Chrissy, start with your feelings. you could even start with yourself. i feel angry that someone doesn’t believe me and that feels like a lump in my throat and burning behind my eyes and clenched teeth. or i feel hateful toward myself for letting a man hurt me so bad in the past. just whatever your feelings are, FEEL THEM in you, all through your body. love them. tell your feelings you love them. tell yourself you love you.
and feeling messages with him: it feels like the bad stuff from my last relationship is still hovering over me and you and that feels terrible. I feel so appreciative that you have let me push it aside all this time and i don’t want to have this be a vague thing that we dance around forever, and i definitely don’t want there to be suspicion or doubt between us. it would feel like great relief to just get it all out in the open one time. what do you think?
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:19pm
46: Tina
says:
Lucy, I feel bored, I want to feel courted and dating. I dont want an online imaginary relationship. What do you think? He says; uuh, Lucy says: yeah I love myself enough to know that I want to date/be courted in person (add emoticon here) , I dont want an AN IMAGINARY RELATIONSHIP what do you think? TN MAN says : huh? Lucy adds snoring emoticon then “appears offline”
then do some online research or something that interests you.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:26pm
47: Tina
says:
Chrissy I would say if it was me – looks around – I feel judged, I know I am judging myself harshly, I do take responsibility for allowing him to treat me that way, I’m “not there” anymore. I’m hiring him (new man) to love me as I love myself
I feel so relieved to know that you are no longer in that terrible situation. You did the right thing!
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:39pm
48: Tina
says:
Chrissy, if you want to go all rockstar just look him square in the eyes when or if he ever brings it up again and tell him exactly that, this might trigger more feelings in you (in the case that he responds in a way your not liking or feeling comfortable with , you may start to feel vulnerable maybe even cry) maybe more than you’d like,in that case go take a nice bath or something, give yourself a hug
works for me. Sometimes I have to lay down on the sofa when I talk and relax my body then look at him and speak my truth.
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:50pm
49: Chrissy
says:
Dorothea – what can i say in reply to you but Wow! Your suggestion is so spot on and has so perfectly captured my feelings. Thank you.
Tina – thank you too, for both your reply and your relief. I love that you say I have hired my new man to love me as I love myself
I actually feel grateful to have gone through that experience, as awful as it was. (mind you, I wish I could have learnt in an easier way!)
That man was the biggest messenger in my life and I feel glad for those messages and the personal growth it resulted in. It allowed me to feel compassion for other women in that situation where I had not been able to before (I am ashamed to admit I judged them) and it allowed me to finally appreciate my own worth and beauty.
Thank you again!
xx
Monday, 15 February 2010 @ 10:56pm
50: Soignée
says:
Dear Chrissy,
I feel sad about your story with the abusive ex man.
In my experience-proved by me and by other women- the new men want to know about your ex men. And if you tell them that they treated you badly, yes, at that point they will be sorry for you, but at some subconscious level, they will “store”it in their mind and they will treat you badly. Yes, it is true.
I read about it some years ago and I realized it was true.
And in new relationships I started to lye that the ex treated me like a queen. And what happened? Every new man treated me like a queen, and continue to.
So now I can tell new men that I was treated like a queen.
I knowt that if you share with new men how you were treated, you give him the permission to do the same.
Right now, the best answer about the previous story for me is: I am lucky to have had the true love feel uncomfortable to discuss the people who were important to me with anyone else. Sorry. It is my past and my privacy. But the story is completely over, so I do not want to come back to it.
I was admired about this answer. The guys -with this answer-find me very attractive,because I do not speak negatively about the people from my past.
And they find me intriguing because they do not know . And they treat me well. If they come back asking me I reply: it was a nice story, but it is completely over. And I change the topic. I ask about him.
i
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 12:27am
51: Soignée
says:
Dear Lucy,
I agree with Turtle Girl. As for me and my personal stories telling the man that you miss him is a way of leaning forward and will push him away. if you have your great life, you won’t sit and feeling sad that he does not show up. He will show up by himself. If he does not rush up to see you, he does not want to.
What I would do, as Rori recommended, I would circular date and when he contacts you , I would share with him the feelings like that “I feel excited, so many people outside”. ” I feel delighted, so much snow”. Or something what is not about the relationship. Share your very short messages with him about your great, busy life.
If you share with the man that you want to see him, it is the way of pushing him away. He will want to come with you but not when you ask him. He will do it by himself if he is interested enough.
He will be intrigued when you do not really care. You do not have to pretend anything, you have your great life, busy with exciting things. And share this one.
If you share with him the feelings about that you miss him, he will probably treat you like a doormat.
And you know the needy, clingy people are not attractive.
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 12:46am
52: Soignée
says:
Dear Chrissy, sorry, mistake at the end of the post: I ask about him, but not about his ex-women. I ask about other things: “Did you see a nice movie recently?” Something like that. Something unimportant, nothing intense.
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 12:52am
53: Kate
says:
Hi Rori…I’m feeling confused and a bit self-protective of myself because I’m feeling triggered. I feel I really need your expert opinion, based on your experience. Overall, are men in their 40′s who have NEVER been married usually unable to commit? Thanks
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 6:25am
54: Kay
says:
Chrissy per your post I was under the assumption you had been dealing with this issue off and on through out your relationship with your new boyfriend, now that you have given more details I can clearly see this was something that was brought up due to certain circumstances and not something you have been repeatedly dealing with through out your entire relationship, thanks for clarifying by adding details and I apologize for triggering any negative emotions that may have arisen by my responses to your original post.
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 6:27am
55: Kay
says:
Kate I have experienced so many men in there 40′s say they have no desire to marry, don’t see a reason for it, staunch against it.
IMO be it 25 or 45 if marriage is something a woman wants and she meet a man that doesn’t want marriage maybe that would be considered a deal breaker, definitely get out there and circular date to keep your options open so you won’t feel like your waiting because he’s stalling.
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 6:31am
56: dorothea
says:
Chrissy,
I feel so much love from your reply to me. My abusive ex was my biggest messenger, too. I feel so glad I can offer you my insight. It makes me feel powerful instead of victimized. Love u!
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 7:07am
57: Stacey
says:
I have a dilema I have no idea how to figure out. My husband have been together 4 years and married for 2, its been a rollercoaster from the day we got married. I have caught him secretly talking to other women from his past, posting on dating sites and the like. When I confronted him he denied it and then when i proved that I knew what was going on he made it my fault for “snooping”. For the last 6 months he has been distancing himself further and further from me. Everytime we try to talk it ends up worse. He informed me about a month ago that he hates being married to me and has since he said I do and that he never wanted to get married. That being married makes him miserable and he doesnt like being “shackled” but he will never divorse me because he doesnt want the title of being divorsed. There is no physical contact between us anymore and I never hear I love you unless I say it first. He says that hes past his prime (hes only 31) and just doesnt want sex anymore and that my stretch marks turn him off (really you can barely see them). Any time I try to talk to him about anything even the weather all I get is “I dont care”.
We used to be sooooo close and in love and I dont know what happened. The wedding was exactly how he asked me to plan it, I dont keep him from doing anything, Im not jelous or controling and Im not lazy. I love him and I just want to make it work and be back where we were before. We tried counceling but that made it ten times worse. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 8:11am
58: Siena
says:
Kay, thanks for your response. I read it yesterday and felt panic rise up into my throat at the thought of saying something so direct. So I sat with it a while and it revealed to me some fears that I have that I need to take care of… thank you for responding!
I love the Bob Grant quote, “a man can’t fight with your heart, the feelings you carry in your heart is your truth.” I love Bob Grant, but even his writings didn’t make 100% sense to me until I found Rori.
I feel so grateful – thank you!
Siena
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 9:32am
59: Rori Raye
says:
Wow, Stacy – Welcome, and I would so like to help you. I don’t know what’s gone wrong here, and it would take more details to find out and fix it (if it IS fixable). He is very clear that he’s unhappy, but we don’t know if this is all coming from him (perhaps there’s another woman…) or if there’s anything you can actually do that will shift things. I’m certain there’s a lot of anger being stuffed down, by both of you. I’m curious what about the counselor made things worse? Can you write more? I’m going to put together a small group (6-8 women) phone coaching session – perhaps a series if it goes well – so if private phone coaching with me or one of the coaches here is not possible for you – perhaps that would work. When sex and physical affection disappear – you’re in crisis….I hope you have at least my ebook, Have The Relationship You Want – let me know how you’re using the basic Tools, how you’re using Feeling Messages, how you’re speaking to him, how you’re Circular Dating (essential here). There’s a lot you can do to get the underlying problem out in the open to be healed – or at least so you can get clear on what’s happening. Love, Rori
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 10:03am
60: Turtle Girl
says:
Soignee-
Thank you for comments about telling men about your past. I had never thought of it this way. But upon reflection I think you may be spot on. Every time I tell a man something about how I was treated by other men, they use that against me sooner or later. If I told them that a past lover was cold and unresponsive, then bingo they go cold on me. If I tell them I was abused verbally, they soon become verbally abusive. If I tell them I was betrayed and cheated don-they betray me and cheat.
I have come to believe that discussing my past lovers with any man could be a mistake. I don’t want to tell them anything any more.
This ends up being a big dilemma for me though. My souls desire is to have a lover/friend that I know completely and want them to know me. And you can’t do that if they don’t know your past. I want to be able to fell totally safe with a man that I can tell anything too. But obviously if I tell them about ex lover who was abusive and then current lover becomes that way, then he is not a safe man to be with. This kind of stuff makes me crazy and I just want to scream……………
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 10:32am
61: Tracy
says:
So many questions running through my head. . guess I’ll start with the most recent situation. The question is how do i draw the line and stop allowing myself to be treated less than the best thing in his life? We met on a popular hook-up site in October that i joined for the heck of it- with no intentions of getting involued with anybody. I was lonely and in pain from going through divorce. . a whole story 29 years long that I’ll save for another time. . . So i found a guy 30 miles from me- we talked- he wanted to meet- i didnt- at first. We exchanged phone numbers and the plans to meet up were in motion for 2 weeks before we did. It was not love at first sight for me and I was so nervous and SCARED! I wanted to run for the hills! I had not done this kind of ‘date’ before- nevermind dating at all since i cant remember when! I really didnt think i wanted to see him again but the short story is i was falling hard. Let me get to the problem: i am not a jealous person but i feel it with him! And i dont know why and i Hate it! He met other girls on that website before me- couple hundred! he isnt even a great looking guy but has his best picture on there and all the girls act stupid with their comments, messages. send pictures- dirty class-less behavior.! and my man thinks its cute and flattering. he has backed off some but not enough for me. i have told him i dont like it and tried other ways of handling it but i still feel hurt. yes he has told me he wants only me. . .and has brought up futurd plans, etc. here is the latest kick in the teeth: Valentines day i had to ask him if he sent me an ecard on that website. then he did later and i knew hed have a ton in his email from the pirrhanas. Yesterday i stumbled on (i do not snoop) to a comment from an ex of his thanking him for the Valentines card and some other manipulative b.s. he had not seen it and i read it to him and blew up telling him, among other things, “DO NOT PLAY ME!” more than once. After a ‘storm’ and him having the nerve to blow up we resolved it enough to get a bit of peace. but it is not resolved within me. we are together today and off and on i’ve been crying. i told him how i felt, what i want and dmt want. but how do i move past this and get back the joy we had?
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 10:58am
62: Orna Walters
says:
Chrissy,
It took me YEARS to talk about my abusive relationship with anyone new in my life. Now I share that experience with the world so I can empower other women.
I completely understand why you had not shared early on in your current relationship, however (you may not like this), your hesitation to share now, and your worry that he may judge you tips me off to believe that you still continue to judge yourself for having been in that situation.
So the relationship with this man is really secondary. In my humble opinion, it seems there is still work to do around these past events in your relationship with yourself.
Sending you much LOVE,
Orna
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 12:02pm
63: Rebecca
says:
Hi Rori,
I was dating a guy 6 month ago and I feel I fell in love with him. But recently he came to me and told me that he wasn’t that into me and he just want to be friend. I stopped to call him or text him. But there is still one project that we worked together that has to done soon. I have to contact with him to follow up the process. Then it looks like we become close again. But I know it is not. I can feel he is still not there. But he keeps calling me and texting me. He requested to spend Valentain’s Day with me and took me to a very expensive restarant. What he is doing? What should I do? I want to move on my life but it’s so hard because I am still interested in him…
Please help. Rori
Thanks.
Rebbeca
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 1:40pm
64: Natural Goddess
says:
Hello there,
I’ve been reading your materials as well as soaking in the Modern Siren program Rory, and they have been so valuable.
Last year I had several very significant men enter my life, all who claimed to have strong feelings for me but then did a 180. I moved to another state to be with a man who professed his love and commitment, only to totally change his behavior once we moved in together (all his idea). He blamed me for everything, one of my flaws including not being “thin enough” for him-he said he “can’t help what he’s attracted to,” and I was “already on the heavier side of what he goes for.” At that time I was an active 140, 5’6″.
Nevertheless, I stuck it through a rough transition,
him dumping me only after a month of being out in this new city, where I didn’t know anyone, and during the xmas holidays. I decided within myself that I moved here for a purpose besides him,
and even though I was jobless and penniless I’d trust the Universe has something great in store.
And I have, made some new friends, traveled a few times, gotten my bearings. Most of all my sense of purpose has gotten stronger, as well as my boundaries of what I will and won’t put up with.
The pain of that first break up is what made me pursue learning more about what men think, and how to communicate- because I noticed that these men who thought of themselves as so “spiritual” and transcendental, they didn’t seem less afraid or act differently than the conditioned responses most if not all men have.
Since then, I had two more significant men come into my life.
In the past few months things have really started to turn towards the positive financially, and on all levels really. I’ve been gearing myself up for circular dating,
but my stumbling block is that I don’t have a car.
I work from home and don’t get out that much. I’m not completely isolated and still manage, but for my own standards I feel isolation. I can get a few errands and things done through buses and help from friends, but it’s terribly inconvenient, it takes 2 hours to get somewhere that is a fifteen minute drive. I can’t imagine being out with some guy on a first date and having him drive me home when I just met him- it would feel unsafe and uncomfortable. And I also don’t imagine myself taking a bus at 11 at night in the cold.
I am still saving money, and I feel trapped and not as free to go where I choose, when I want to.
So, there is this idea I have, that I can’t be in a relationship until I have this taken care of.
And here’s the thing- a guy I was involved with last year is possibly coming back around. And I’m like, “wait, I don’t have a car yet!” I know, it sounds silly even as I write this. But I guess it represents freedom and independence for me.
So, this guy coming around, the car issue, circular dating, they all seem connected.
I’m not sure what I want with him, that seems to fluctuate. But I do know that the last time we talked, it felt REALLY good, I felt so relaxed with him, more than ever before. This is a man who said he was in love with me, and then also said he was confused a few weeks later and needed time and space. That was months ago and I won’t tell the whole long story here. But I told myself if he ever came back, I’d possibly be willing to give him another chance, but only if I was circular dating. But I can’t quite do that yet, at least not in a way that feels really good to me! I’m afraid that if I start hanging out with him, in my situation, I don’t have a ‘high degree of difficulty.’
He asked me to spend time this weekend, and I did say yes, but now I’m feeling torn.
I’ve also gained ten pounds and feel icky about that.
Now, I’ve still done my best in my situation, went to a party last week and flirted with several men, and many of them were telling me how beautiful I looked.
And I don’t mean to sound complaining, I appreciate all that my life brings and how things are.
I do still have feelings for this man and I’m afraid
that he’s coming in before I’m able to show up as my best self.
Any advice?
Confidence booster before the weekend, or should I postpone?
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 4:17pm
65: Chrissy
says:
I love this forum because it gives us the opportunity to seek so many perspectives! And the support that radiates from the screen feels so tangible. Almost like the person on the other end of the post is reaching out to hug me xx
Soignee – you raise some very valid points and I like your take on my situation, thank you.
Kay – you responded as per the words on the page and your response was honest and heartfelt. I forgot that people dont know me and extra details are pretty important to properly convey my message. I hold absolutely no hard feelings but I feel so appreciative of your apology, thank you xx
Dorothea – you are so very welcome! Much love back at you! xx
Orna – wow. You are spot on. Even thinking about telling my man about this has re-opened a door I believed to be closed (but if it was truly that closed, surely I could not have opened it that easily hmmm?). I typed out the entirety of my experience, got it out of my body and onto paper and the disgust and judgement that I felt towards myself while I was doing it felt awful. On a rational level I can understand and forgive myself (and certainly my heart is full of compassion and understanding for anyone else in those circumstances) but on a molecular, soul deep level there still remains some shame and I definitely will work on that.
And yes I want to be able to be straightforward about it, to attach no blame. To say, yep, this was me, this happened but I do not feel embarassed, just grateful if my message helps anyone else.
Thank you all so much. I feel so embraced and so supported xx
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 6:21pm
66: gina
says:
Hi ladies,
I had an interesting moment the other day, and i felt compelled to post about it…at the comedy club, my favorite comic is in town, and I was all open and exuberant around him and it felt good and natural cause I like him. I often feel crummy cause I feel decidedly turned off by most men. But I really like him and felt all glowy, and it was very easy for me to be all nice. It turns out that he’s married, but there was good appreciative (and appropriate) communication between us – makes me think that with the right guy, I will naturally be open and warm and inviting. Is this an incorrect belief?
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 8:44pm
67: Cinderalla
says:
@ Soignée : sorry to interupt this, but I feel the words “Did you see a nice movie recently?” sounds like what in sherry agrov’s book. I read that books before, well its not working on me. You cant hide the feelings inside U when its start kicking in, and you blocked it and changed topic. sooner it will come back again and even stronger. I love all Rori’s tool, its like so into “me” and so easy cos its all already inside me, and I don’t have to pretend to be bitch or someone else like they asked me to do.
Rori you are powerful. Love ya!!!
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 10:00pm
68: Cinderalla
says:
has anyone ever encountered this feeling?
i am sure its not Obssessed
You don’t care about the guy, enjoying your own life. and following your feelings. Sometimes forgot him, sometimes feel weird why i slept with him, or miss him etc or just plain nothing but without thinking or imagining suddenly you can feel his energy when you are listening to a song or doing something or can feel his presence, and can feel how he feels too XD and it feels so good without the feelings want to do something with that. just feel so good. is it mean I am in love or is there something else?
Thanks !!
Tuesday, 16 February 2010 @ 10:19pm
69: Ema Lee
says:
Hello to everyone!
I just wanted to share a little experience: a couple of days ago i was feeling very angry and helpless in respect to all the things i cannot change in my life, then suddenly i tried to change this intense feeling of anger and so i thought: “Wow, there’s so much anger in me, so much force, i am a goddess of FIRE!” And all the sudden i felt a whole lot better about myself and empowered. I just wanted to ask if this is the “riffing” Rori is talking about. I am not a native English speaker so i’m not quite sure if i got the idea right
Thanks!
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 1:45am
70: Terry
says:
I feel confused, worried, and a bit sad. About 6 months ago I bought Rori’s e-book, the “Reconnect” CD’s and “Modern Siren” DVD’s. I listen to them and watch them every free moment I have trying to absorb the skills and tools. I try to practice them everyday.
I’ve “run off” three men in these last 6 months. I mean, things always feel like they start off great, then poof! One of the guys I had been seeing on and off for a year. He told me a couple of months ago how much he loved me, hated not being around me, and wanted this to work. (Even though he didn’t admit to it, I know he felt a change in me.) Well, he poofed and is now dating someone else. I feel rejected and defeated.
I keep wondering if I’m doing something wrong, or if maybe I’ve just been attracting toxic men in the past, but with the tools I’ve learned I’m weeding them out? Has anyone else experienced this?
I feel scared, because I just put my online profile back up. That whole process feels overwhelming at times.
I feel needy and embarrassed asking these questions.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 8:38am
71: letspa
says:
Dear Stacey!
Poor dear (sincerely)– Did you ask you’re “loving”
husband every time he expresses that he doesn’t want to be married and never wanted to: “Then why did you?’ “Why did you marrry me?” Let him take his time to answer, and require one. I agree with
Rori about you dating or at least spending time around /flirting with other men…like he does with other women. What an ass, just had to say it.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:04am
72: dorothea
says:
Terry, I love your questions and feel sad that you feel needy coming here. What does that make all of us with our questions and comments then, woman? hehehe.
I feel curious what specifically you feel ran these men off as you say..?
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:12am
73: Siena
says:
Hi Terry,
I feel you girl! I struggle with the same thoughts and feelings. In my life, when I start to feel like it sounds like you do now, it usually comes down to the fact that I’m not taking good enough care of myself. Not loving myself enough.
I hear you blaming yourself for “running the men off”. I do the same thing. But you know what? The man who sticks won’t be run off that easily. It sounds like you’re a beautiful person, and these men were a little “easy come, easy go”. This is NOT you – this is life!
When I start to have those sad and desperate thoughts (like, “will I ever get this right!?”), I do one or more of these things. Perhaps one will resonate with you:
1) I take myself on a date. I love the beach and sunshine, so that’s where I go. I observe nature, have fun with my dog, etc.
2) I write down a “gratitude list” and write everything that HAS gone right in my life.
3) I go to a quiet place and pray/meditate. Doing this usually brings me back to center better than anything else.
Doing one or all of those things for me fills me with love, and keeps the loneliness and desperation at bay.
I guess the bottom line is, no man can fill those voids. You have to do that yourself. A man can enrich your life and help you to find more love than you ever thought possible, but the ‘voids’ are for you to take care of… not him.
Love to you!
Mary
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:27am
74: Orna Walters
says:
Chrissy: Thank you for sharing your process. I think writing everything out was a GREAT idea.
Being KIND with yourself is essential. Even if you have to go into a bathroom to hug yourself – then say nice things to yourself in the mirror.
Sending love,
Orna
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:49am
75: Orna Walters
says:
Terry,
In my own experience it takes PRACTICE with these new tools and shifting your behavior. As you shift who you attract will shift as well as who you are attracted to.
Sometimes there is a “purging” so to speak. Pay attention to any patterns that you can identify from your past relationships. If these new men show up and “run off” it may be because they are from your old pattern. The clue for you that you are moving forward is that the time for you to move through the old pattern is getting shorter and shorter. Soon it won’t exist at all and you’ve moved on to another level, another way of behaving that serves your higher self.
Pay attention to what you are saying to yourself about yourself. Shift all negative thoughts to positive ones. Celebrate You!
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:56am
76: gina
says:
To me, Terry’s question is linked to my question…I have a feeling that with the right guy, it would happen with or without the tools. The tools help make any relationship better. But sometimes we’re improving a relationship that has no staying power. I guess that’s why we shouldn’t be attached to results?
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 10:56am
77: Daria
says:
Ema Lee – shifting perceptions and feelings like that is defnitely riffing. If you’d like to see how Rori taught us Riffing, go here:
on the side bar, the power and self esteem posts
start with the Oldest one (by date) and look for the posts that say to start making Lists. Then that post and the other ones afterwards ending with Follow Your Feelings will show you how we learned Riffing.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 11:12am
78: Alisa
says:
To update you dorothea ( and thanks for the love
)
. So now im trying to get on with life. I cant seem to get the hang of circular dating but i have been dating myself. I havent apologized for my actions and im thinking maybe he doesnt believe that he can interact with me as friends and it be without pressure and expectations. Which i can understand. I hate when guys are like that with me. Im trying to give him time to contact me first. Or should i just go ahead and say something?
I did tell him that afterwards, asked that we be able to enjoy time together with no pressure and no expectations but that i wasnt available for the relationship that he was offering and that he wasnt ready for the one that i wanted. And until he figured out what he wanted from me that we would stay friends. I left the still date part out….maybe that was a bad thing. I asked what he thought and he said ok. Thats all: ok. We havent spoken since.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 11:29am
79: la la land
says:
hi rori
my question is about the leaning back
as time passes by i unfold more and more leaning forward behaviors of mine that were bad habits of our relationship. my question is: everything you say about leaning back both in reconnect and siren is for unmarried couples. what about the 20 years married couple. i do send him film we might like to see, phone no for doctors, things like that and more that u mention on your list of what not to do. is it all wrong? or some of it could be considered as support the team?
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 2:31pm
80: kay
says:
Terry I used to feel the same way that you feel right now, deep down I knew I had low self esteem, I knew I was being easy with men by being so available and compliant, sometimes we women have some really toxic patterns and habits of our own and it makes a man feel like love is going to be hard with that particular woman so the men end up moving forward without us, it sucks but I kept using Rori’s tools and learning from Christian Carter how to change my attitude and understanding about men and I slowly but surely a better quality of men came into my life.
It’s heavy stuff especially if a woman comes from a hard life background, I’m the queen of low self esteem but if I can raise my self esteem anyone can including you. Keep fighting for yourself, keep being your own cheerleader no matter what happens, no matter who come and who go and sometimes the men leaving have absolutely nothing to do with you, they leave because that’s what they always do no matter who the woman is or how great she is.
Accepting responsibility doesn’t mean taking the whole blame, it’s okay to admit you chose the type of man you chose but you don’t have to make it your fault he left, I’m sure if you look at his life there is a pattern of him leaving his commitments with his family, friends, ex-girlfriends. I sure know my X’s had a horrible pattern of push-pull, in and out and ditching women after a certain amount of time.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 2:46pm
81: Rachel
says:
Hello Rori and all you lovely Sirens,
I have two questions:
1) When you’ve spent several lovely days with a man and then he leaves to go back to his home (long distance), is it leaning forward to say that you will miss him? Or that you wish he didn’t have to leave?
I feel these things and it feels odd to not express them. I understand that I must have a full and beautiful life outside of him (and I do more and more!), but he is important to me and I do miss him when we’re apart. Is there never a time or place to express that? Or does it always feel needy to a man?
2) How can I “show not tell” a man that I would appreciate little notes, extra calls, etc. When I’m busy and can’t stay in touch, he just disappears too. I was sick yesterday and sent him an email telling him that I was going to bed early because I felt lousy. I thought for sure that he’d at least send a little note to say he hoped I felt better, but he didn’t! These little things mean a lot to me and I have tried to express this desire through feeling messages in the past … with no improvement. Is there anything else I can do to inspire him? Or is he just not a “little sweet details” kind of guy? I do think he loves me… but this is one area where he doesn’t row the boat!
Thanks… I await your wisdom!
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 3:01pm
82: tinque
says:
Rachel – Instead of looking to express how much you will miss him when he’s gone, express how good it feels when he’s there. Melt with every embrace etc. Say that it feels so good.
Instead of looking to get something he’s not giving, look at and deeply appreciate what he does give.
Just a different way of looking at things.
And YOU will feel better too.
xxoo
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 3:33pm
83: gina
says:
Watching the Bachelor is confusing!!! The women who express the most love, win!
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 3:38pm
84: Daria
says:
Gina – im in the middle of watching episode 7 part 1 on hulu.
DUDE! I just saw him say to Ali get on the plane right now.
I think he likes Ali’s in charge masculine energy!
RORI!!! MORE MORE !! ON THE BACHELOR
AND YES I THINK expressing love is very feminine. Goes under appreciating the masculine!
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 4:31pm
85: No Bliss
says:
Hi,
I haven’t been here for a while.
I have so many questions, one does not know which to ask first.
I feel flat all the time, I am never happy, I growl at everything. No-one makes me happy, truly happy, not even my kids. I smile and acknowledge but do not feel. Everything upsets me, my divorced parents, my own messed up relationship, my sister who talks to me like I am dumb, my brother who I never see. My sport if we lose, my weight, I am 58kg and feel huge. I feel ugly, no man ever pays me any attention. No one calls and asks me out ever, I have to always make the plans, thats what my friends say. If you want to go out, then arrange it and call us. So if i don’t arrange it, i am always at home lonely.
I don’t like the internet anymore.
I have been told by family and my ex, that its unlucky but i am just cursed with the permanently grumpy face, even when I may be really happy, people always think i am shitty or pissed off. I wear my heart on my sleeve, so when ever my feelings change – i don’t need a mood ring, its written all over my face in every single situation, i do try hard to have a poker face, never works.
I do not want drugs or doctors to fix me. I am probably not fixable.
I do want a life though, we only get one chance,
I want to be happy, have friends, have a man who actually thinks i am pretty cool to hang out with, not just in the bedroom.
I want to learn to smile at every single situation and not give away how i really feel.
Is it too much to ask to be spoilt occassionally from a man, get a hug, a wink, flowers or even a corny gift, even from a lollie machine.. just to show they are thinking of you.. and you mean allot to them.
I want to be happpy and be happpy with everything and everyone in my life.. Even if we are being totally smashed in a sports game, its ok, and not feel like a bad sport all the time.
Can one’s life turn around, and can there be the kind of happiness and love I am yearning for. I feel I must have done something really wrong in my past life to deserve to always feel downtrodden and i am being punished for it now.
I would love people to answer my calls and be happy to hear from me, rather than just ask what i want, even a reply to a text message would be great.
I have gone on way too much, just needed to express how I felt.
You may all judge me, or not reply , but you do not know me, so its a little easier.
I am very use to my feelings being hurt, but it doesn’t make it easier or you more resilient to it.. ,
Thank you for listening, just posting this, gives me hope, that I will be heard and someone will know how to reach out and help.
: – )
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 8:48pm
86: Megan
says:
Rori,
I know this is very long but please bear with me-
A couple of months ago I got out of an almost 2 yr on-again off-again “relationship” with a guy that I work with (which is extremely hard as Robyn said and no, I don’t want to quit my job). He is very young (20, I am 23) and “scared of commitment”. He was almost always the one to break up with me yet we always found our way back to eachother. He’s admitted “he liked me but was scared to commit but didn’t wanna let me go” and when I asked him how he could do that he said “he wasn’t thinking of me, he guesses he saw it as what he wanted at the time”. He also beats himself up for “”f*ing up our relationship and hating himself for it” and that “he cares about me a lot” and “wants me to have a good, happy life”.
Whenever I was over it, he would win me back in hopes that this time he really would be ready or things would be different. When he would call it off again it triggered my co-toxicity and desperate need to be approved of and worthy. Thus, I tried to change him a lot and would find myself talking him into us being together, without any label, in hopes that he wouldn’t see it as a “relationship” and freak out again.
This last time, after he broke it off, I did well for about 2 mos. But quickly realized how he would still flirt and essentially try to keep me still interested. This REALLY pissed me off and I began to completely ignore him which turned into a game of “let’s see who can out-ignore the other and pretend they care the least”. I HATE these games.
One night I texted him asking him to return the necklace still left on his dresser to work so I could have it. He played dumb, asking what the necklace looked like and said he’d look when he got home (as if he has a lot of necklaces laying around). Finally I told him how I felt- used and strung along and that I didn’t know how I felt about him anymore, even as a person. He said he was sorry I felt that way and that he had the necklace (he had returned home at this point). I called him up and called him out on his flirting since we’d been broken up and how he wouldn’t let me go. He denied everything and as I persisted he became really angry and began yelling. He hung up on me and didn’t respond to any of my texts for the rest of the evening.
Normally when I return to work after we’ve had arguments he’s all loud and pompous and completely ignores me as if to prove how “okay” he is while I try to not act upset when inside I’m FURIOUS. I feel like it strokes his ego to know he has a hold over me and in fact he seems to get off on it. Can you say TOXIC??
After this argument, however, I smartened up and was as normal to him as I could. No mad, no sad, and I was sure to make a point to laugh and cut up in front of him. It worked LIKE A CHARM. When he returned to work with my jewelry his demeanor was completely different. He walked around all slumpy with his tail between his legs and was polite when he handed me my things.
From that point on he literally hid from me. I am a server and he is a cook and if I walked up to the window he would literally turn his back to me, but not in an angry way but as if he was trying his HARDEST to keep me out-of-sight, out-of-mind since he had gotten the point that I was finally serious. Shortly after, he got another seasonal job for the winter (thank GOD) and I didn’t have to see him much longer.
BUT- and here is my question- he is coming back in a month or so. I am not interested in getting back with him but I want to act in a way opposite of the previous desperate behavior he’s seen from me and the always “being around” and taking him back. Because he gives me the food I serve there is a lot of face-to-face time.
How do I act? Do I act polite and nonchalant? Can I laugh if he makes a joke out loud or do I have to stifle it? This may seem immature but there are A LOT of emotions tied into this and I feel that this is my time to redeem myself and gain back my self-esteem. I feel that if I ignore him it’ll be obvious that he still has a hold over me. Acting “normal” or “like myself” is out of the question here since I cannot help but be aware of his presence/my beahvior. Sorry this is so long but please, please help, I’d really like to know what you’d suggest in this situation.
Love,
Megan
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 9:04pm
87: Daria
says:
Hugs No Bliss!
I’ve felt this way. You are depressed! You CAN live a wonderful life. I am so much more along than I was 2 years ago when I started here. I am so much more happier, and fuller of selffaith and joy and openess and accepting myself and even having what I want.
I am still babystepping.
Babystep with me!
Love,
D
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 10:22pm
88: kay
says:
Reading your post no bliss took me way back when I was what I felt chronically depressed, for me I didn’t use drugs, I won’t go into how the depression lifted because it sounds super spiritual and I wouldn’t want to offend anyone plus I don’t even know how to explain it without coming off as looney but I’m no longer in that space were I’m unhappy with life, there was a time I laid on my moms couch for several years, little to no energy, using men as a form of relief, gosh I could go on and on.
I don’t know if your spiritual but it helps to have a higher source to go to when you fill other options aren’t working. Above all keep venting, keep seeking, keep praying (if you pray) keep asking the hard questions, keep being you and inevitably you will find the answers that you seek and change will come.
I wish for some of the same things you wish for, I used to crave it but now it’s not a need, it’s a want but not a necessity and I will be okay with or without it and you will be too.
Make a list of 5 things to be thankful for every day and hold onto that, find a space were you can put your love and energy into such as a hobby or volunteering at an animal shelter, or maybe you need you more now than ever so focus on that.
Bless and Love
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 11:51pm
89: kay
says:
let me clarify, I didn’t use pharmaceutical drugs, I wasn’t aware I was suffering from depression at that time.
Wednesday, 17 February 2010 @ 11:52pm
90: femenrgylove
says:
so,my ex is back in town.we broke up because he moved away and did not know if he was coming back to my city for a job (his contract with his company ended and he went back to europe to see his family) when he left i SPECIFICALLY told him i was interested in still being together if he ever came back and that we should wait and see if he does.
Well he’s back and ofcourse during that time he was away since it was all up in the air i circular dated.We had breakfast the morning he came back and he clearly told me he did not want a relationship ,he had in fact started dating a girl while he had gone home.I was in my element and was totally at peace becasue judging from our communication when he was away it was apparent it was over.He was really arrogant during our meeting and i walked away knowing that that was not what i wanted.He has since sent me text messages saying it would be nice to meet up.i’ve ignored him.it does not feel good to meet up with him and be his friend.he called me last night and said he will be in my area from tomorrow till sunday and if we meet it will be because i called him,he is not going to call me.very arrogantly said…..uh……okay.and…..?so friggin over it.guilt trip at first but thats how he operates.i feel so good now knowing that i’m not the idiot here.how do i say in a firm nice way……that i dont friggin care?
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:46am
91: Linda
says:
Hi
I am back from my vacation. I went back to look at my last post on Feb 8 and read it.
What I suspected was true with S. As the week went things erroded more and more. I am not going to go into everything that he said, did or did not do. It is a waste of time typing and brain cells.
What he offers me is nothing. He could but doesnt. And…. on top of that he is deceitful, untrustworth, disloyal, and talks out of both sides of his mouth. When i confronted everything… he began to run his old tapes and deliver his old speech to me. AND… that he could not give me what I need, sighted lots of reasons that I was not worth his effort ! Blah blah blah.
After it is all said and done. I am glad I went. The good, the bad, and the ugly… all of it I am glad. This has run its course. I am free, I am glad to be home and at work and to sleep in my own bed alone with my dog. Today I feel peaceful and calm and glad for my life.
Linda
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 4:42am
92: Linda
says:
It is wonderful to come thru this experience being cured. It is a good thing to endure,live thru and witness behavior that cures you from and desire for contact, wishing, hoping or anything imaginary from a man. My heart is released from feeling any pull, toward him. After some of the things he said… I am totally cured. Hooray!
Linda
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 5:07am
93: Lori
says:
Linda,
What a great post! I could feel it in your words that you are breaking free from the hold this man has over you. You sound better already! I wish I could get to that point with my ex. I feel afraid that if i ever actually saw him again, all of the work I’ve done will just fall apart and I’ll be right back to where I started…..
No Bliss,
I agree that you are suffering from depression. I have been there 3 times in my life: after my divorce, after one of my grandmothers died whom I was really close to, and after my break up with my last serious boyfriend. There IS hope! If you’re not willing to go to a doctor and get medical treatment, I’d be happy to recommend some natural vitamins and supplements. Let me know if you want me to. Beyond that, start doing things for yourself in small baby steps as Daria says so you don’t feel overwhelmed. Treat yourself to a massage, pick up a hobby, get a journal. Do little things that make YOU happy. And coming here was a great idea-I can’t tell you how much support I’ve gotten on here.
I’m curious as to why you feel huge at 58 kilo. That’s about 128 pounds, which is what I weigh and I LOVE my body. I’m a size 4 at that weight at 5’5″ or 5’6″ in height. 128 pounds is not anywhere near huge- I’m considered on the small side. Have you suffered from a body image disorder before?
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 5:33am
94: Terry
says:
To all who graciously answered my questions – THANK YOU for your input. I feel humbled. I will write more later. Been working long, crazy hours this week, and I’m about to go into another meeting. Ugh. Check back later.
Gina, AMEN! The Bachelor is confusing me, too! I was much more expressive in past relationships and they lasted much longer. I may be confused about this whole leaning back. Maybe I’m leaning back too much and I’m coming across to men as not being interested??
Later!
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 6:53am
95: Linda
says:
When I maintain the commitment to paying attention to me, what I feel, what I need then reality is easier to keep in perspective.
I spoke my heart, was accused of being irrational and emotional. When I took a protective stand for me..I was accused of being a cold hearted bitch… LOL I told him that his opinion of me did not matter, and he knew that it was not true. His words bounced off me like teflon YEAH! and it exposed his inmature childish way of dealing with conflict. He resorted to name calling! LOL…. He is one conflicted man. I told him that I would bet a million dollars that every woman he has ever been with, he has told them the same thing…. ended it with “it is just not all there with you”…. He did not dispute me. I told him it is not us.. it is HIM. It is not all there with HIM…. Seesh the very thing that he wants is the very thing he blocks and wont participate in. Every woman wants the same thing… to be loved, cherished, appreciated, and make important/ a priority/ when I told him he did not do any of that for me… NILCH….. Then sighted that he just could not give me what I needed…. He did not feel motivated or passionate toward me… LOL I sited that he did not feel passionate about ANYTHING and he agreed. I told him that I did not think that making a relationship decision based on feeling passionate about me would not be wise…. He agreed. I said of pressing in thru your fear, staying on track with me and honoring your word, you rationalize that you dont feel “everything” and you pursue yet another woman. Deciet on all levels…. me and yourself. How very sad that is to me.
Even though he was agreeing…. I said well this is all moot anyway. I am stopping this cycle. I want you in my life, I feel torn because I love you but this does not work for me. You are not a man I respect and share my life, extend my heart or my hand toward any more.
This is a win for me. Freedom come in lots of ways. Going thru this tuff spot and the pain of it all released me from his hold.
Linda
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 7:35am
96: Adriana
says:
Chrissy,
You are the one to decide how much to disclose about your past relationship. If you feel angry because you are hearing your man telling you he doesn’t believe you, let him know how you feel. Tell him you want to be able to believe he trusts you, and ask him what he thinks. Perhaps he’ll explain why he made those statements, and you can clear the air.
Terry,
I believe the tools are more or less a complete 180 for most of us. Most of us have much lower self-esteem than we believe we do. We are ashamed of our own lack of self-worth! We even lie to ourselves about it.
Also, I look around and see that many women have damaging beliefs about men. I once did, too. Things like, “All men want sex with more women”, or “All men leave”. These things are false, and are really part of our low self-worth. There are *many* messages like this in the modern media, and television programs. I have made a decision to limit my exposure to those messages, and it has really helped me. I am able to “program” myself in a positive way, instead of letting the media tell me what to believe.
My man is loving, giving, attentive, and committed. He put a ring on my finger over Christmas, and we had a blissful and low-key Valentine’s Day. Sometimes it is hard for me to accept all he has to give. I really have to be responsible for *me* now! When I feel icky today, it is pretty much *never* my man. Its nearly always my low self-esteem telling me I’m not worthy.
No Bliss,
My failure to take care of myself is usually what makes *me* feel frustrated and angry. My “tank” gets low. So, I have to refuel. I have to not only accept his love – I have to accept my own! For me that means taking time out to enjoy looking at the beautiful sky. Going to the gym for a yoga or pilates class. Taking time to make myself a really delicious, healthy meal. Taking time to put on makeup or give myself a pedicure, no matter how much my daughter pulls on me, or how many things I have to get done. Time out for me from me is the key to my feelings of well-being!
For those who asked about leaning back, I think any feeling message is OK. I tell my man I will miss him. He likes that! He tells me the same thing back.
Hugs,
Adriana
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 9:27am
97: Rori Raye
says:
Rebecca, I’ve been through this before –he’s just not wanting to let you go – but he has no interest in taking this further. You are – at the moment – convenient. A name in his “little black book” It’s not mean or taking advantage. It’s just that since he told you the truth, if you go out with him, he has the right to assume you’re on-board with the “just friends” – even with benefits. Don’t get snowed. Turn him down for dates and say it clearly “I don’t want a friendship with benefits – I’m looking for a man who’s into me and wants to be with me and marry me.” then Circular Date – but not with HIM – he’s already blown his chance. Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 10:56am
98: Soignée
says:
Dear Rori,
I was really surprised, one of my ex found me on skype after S. Valentine day, he wanted just to greet me. He made me suffer a lot because at that period, i was an innocent girl and he was always a “wolf”, wiht a lot of experiece, a lot of women and success. I know him for 7 years. And it is so strange that he looked for me after S. Valentine day. But he greeted me only with a simple: Hello, I just wanted to say you hello.
What should I do if he wants to show up? He made me a lot of pain. But I am not sure if I have to tell him my truth about how I felt.
If he had a good relationship, he would not have contacted me after S.Valentine. But he did, maybe he has no valid relationship. But why he contacted me? Why he did not do it before? What does lack in his life that he wants to hear about me?
Is it a question of sex? Please tell me.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 11:07am
99: Daria
says:
I’m feeling so inspired! I love Mama Gena’s writing!
I feel confused about what seems to be her divorce… perhaps Mama Gena would benefit from Rori’s work? that would be awesome. she’s certainly good at making women feel like Goddesses. Here’s something from her e-letter that someone wrote to her…
“That job I had? It seemed pretty awesome except for my boss, who rendered me furious and anxious and edgy and defensive in mere moments if he felt like it. It was during Mastery that tried a new approach. Not my usual solid, smart, capable approach. No. I tried doing what pleased me. I flirted and teased and deflected and laughed when he came gunning. You know what happened, of course. He actually said, mystified (and I must note, reiterates this point every few months, usually to a younger member of our staff), “Liz changed, like flipping a light switch. I have never seen anyone change as dramatically as she did.” He would ask, “How did you do it? You’re completely different.”"
I LOVE IT! I can try this with my ex, with my dad and my mom, when I feel attacked. DO WHAT PLEASES ME!
LAUGH AND DEFLECT AND FLIRT!
lol
I can tell my ex… hey I dont like being talked to this way SUCKER! Call me back when you know how to be a Gentleman! click!
hehehe
also i like what Rori said to Rebecca:
I don’t want a friendship with sex. I want a man who’s into me, and I want to be taken out on dates (for my other ex who doesn’t know how to date and for Dman)
YEAHH BUDDY!
I dont want a friendship with sex. I want a man who’s into me and wants to be with me and marry me!
wooo hoo
haha its fun because Mama Gena’s writings open my eyes that I dont’ have to be so serious!
I CAN send a man demands like this woman did, what things to bring, what books to read, what treats to bring me! ha!
and just enjoy it!
lol
I love that too!!!
so fun!
FUN FUN FUN
HI rain il ove you… you’re grey and wet and lush!!! mmmmmm
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 11:25am
100: Linda
says:
I love thinking that I can be done with someone… with S… I like the line in Rori’s comment to Rebecca.
He has blown his chance. In my case… chancessssses. He has text me today. I did not respond… I dont wanna, really dont want to for the first time ever.
I feel happy. I still like me.
Linda
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 11:32am
101: gina
says:
I am glad to read Rori telling Rebecca that the guy blew it. Speaking of blowing it…I still think about Johnny. I just can’t believe I got duped. The whole thing was a lesson in playing small. like the fact that I made exceptions for him, and drove to him a couple of times. And the fact that I paid for him on our last date. And the fact that I slept with him, even though I didn’t feel completely comfortable. I’m glad I handled things the way that I did when I saw him last…although, I still don’t like the part when I told him “no hard feelings.” that was BS on my part. I’m also having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that we dated for a couple of months, yet he didn’t care enough about me to let me know that he wasn’t interested in continuing to see me, even though we had agreed to sexual exclusivity when i saw him last. Or I guess, he sorta dodged the issue now that I think back on it. It’s a tough pill to swallow that a person would do that. UUUUUUrgh!! All the times that I gave him the benefit of the doubt…I now retract that doubt and I hate him. I absolutely hate him. I think he’s a piece of crap. And that night when I looked at him and he was all shape shifty, and then I regretted that I looked at him like he was the devil and he was all wounded and I tried to make it up to him…I was RIGHT. I want to play the blame game and BLAME HIM!!! It’s been weeks and weeks. why am I so angry about it?? Guys have come and gone. One asked for my number this morning, and I’m going out with a different one tonight…but I’m still stuck on this A-HOLE. I realize that I’m totally attacking and blaming and thinking. But to say how I feel just isn’t satisfying cause I feel a raging desire to put bullets through him with attacking words.
Forgiveness comes to my head. And I realize that I don’t give a flying flip about forgiving that SOB (even if he has a personality disorder, hole in his soul, or any other “reason” for SUCKING), I think I need to forgive myself for enduring crap I didn’t like since I met him (even though I haven’t seen him in a couple of months, I still am enduring his lingering unworthy presence in my head). That makes me feel teary, so that must be at least kinda true. Sigh…I love my rage. I love my fury. I love that I’m stronger and more sure of my boundaries. I love that life goes on and that there will be other lessons to learn. I love that I know I deserve a good man who really wants me and appreciates me.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 12:11pm
102: Simply Shannon
says:
Linda: I feel proud of you! I feel bad hearing he didn’t step as you wanted him to but I feel proud of your strength and not getting off your horse!
Gina: If it’s any consolation, I still think about A (the guy who cheated on me). I even check his FB page occasionally! He texted me not too long ago asking how I was. I told him I got saved recently and haven’t heard back from him since! GRRR!!! It’s kind of funny now that I think about it. I do like Rori says and just put him on my horse. He’s riding back there telling me not to put up with other men’s shit. I pretend with “him” that I’m the best thing that ever happened to him and he’s pining away for me. Why do we do this to ourselves? Why would WE pine for someone like that? I seriously don’t get it.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 12:22pm
103: Terry
says:
Humble thanks to all of you who responded to me. By reading your responses, I feel clearer on what I feel has been happening.
Overall, I really do feel good about myself. I’ve been divorced for 10 years. I went into counseling for 3 years after my divorce. I didn’t even date during that time. I began dating when I felt ready.
Up until 6 mos. ago, I was always the one who walked away from any relationship that didn’t feel good. I now realize I didn’t walk away soon enough. I gave men way too many chances to “man up.”
Before I came across Rori’s materials, I had read umpteen relationship books. I only started using Rori’s tools this past fall. Since then, three men have poofed. I didn’t feel angry or upset with them – just a little sad about the guy who professed his love then vanished. I felt connected to him.
Anyway, I think I have figured it out. All the advice in those relationship books is opposite of what Rori says! You know: men can’t handle our emotions, their psyche is fragile, never bring up anything so as to upset them. Wait patiently and then wait patiently some more.
Most experts promoted exclusivity in dating. That was my problem in the past. Most of my guys had wanted exclusivity too early. Then they got lazy.
I have had to use the “girlfriend speech” twice in the last six months. That’s when things would unravel. I felt these guys wanted things too easy and on their terms only. Pfff…
I feel empowered.
They wanted me to be a girlfriend. I said no.
I didn’t run them off. They ran away. Too soft.
Good.
Don’t waste another minute of my time.
I feel better.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 12:32pm
104: gina
says:
Thanks SS. It does feel good to know that I’m not the only one pining away irrationally. And it’s helpful to think of him back there informing of what to avoid…but it also ticks me off and I feel like throwing him off the horse. Cause he said that sort of stuff to me about the government, and former bosses – cutting through the BS to articulate the truth, and then he amounts to a pile of BS himself. I wanna yell back at him on my horse “HYPOCRITE!!” Get off my horse!” But I do like to think of him not contacting me cause he respects me so much and he feels unworthy of me, and he dreams of me. And when he’s chasing other girls he’s wishing they were me. He’s working really hard to lessen the gap between who he actually is and who he pretends to be, and his plan is that once he’s fully realized himself as prince charming, he will come to me, but I will already be taken by someone with a heart of gold who would never dream of hurting me. And johnny will know that he blew the best chance he ever had. BWAHAHA!
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 12:36pm
105: Natural Goddess
says:
Hey Everyone,
I left feel silly for leaving such a rant, #63.
I have an old flame that asked me out for this weekend,
and I’m ten-fifteen lbs heavier than I was last year.
I feel embarrassed, ashamed, like hiding, how can I feel confident when seeing him again?
I even feel bad about feeling bad! But trying to hug myself and it’s SOooo understandable with the stresses I’ve gone thru the past year that I’d gain weight.
Any tips for appreciating one’s body more?
I’m exercising, but more like some meditation or something?
Thank you all! And I enjoy reading and learning from all your posts.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 1:02pm
106: Natural Goddess
says:
My belly is sticking out more,
and I have more cellulite! Ugghhhhhh!
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 1:03pm
107: Robin
says:
So many wonderful comments! Im just signing in, so I cant wait to read them all!
I know this is late, but Lucy, I totally related to what you were saying about going along with the ‘just friends’ thing.
This is what I felt like-EXACTLY what I felt like-with my ex a year ago. I practiced on him and refused to be his friend and I was still interested and I wanted to turn it around with him, but all the feeling messages, everything, they just weren’t working, and I thought it would just be easier to be his friend and forget the whole thing.
I realize now that I was practicing on him to GET him to fall in love with me, I was trying to get an outcome from him, and I really think that just messed with my vibe, and he could feel that I was attached to the outcome and still HOPING he would come around.
After I started cd, I really and truly DID give up practicing on him, and I really truly DID drop my feeling messages with him.
And then I started practicing on him AGAIN, but not b/c I wanted him to step up, but b/c he was suddenly easy to practice with. The guys Im interested in now I practice on too, but I LOVE to practice on my ex, b/c, now hes just like the guy at starbucks that I practice on, I just dont care all that much about what he thinks, Im practicing for myself.
I really feel like that makes ALL the difference.
I would give on him, and really surrender to the outcome with men who are more able to Step up.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 1:29pm
108: Rori Raye
says:
Tracy – the one word that came to me as I read your comment was this: CHAOS. You are all over the place with this man – and I don’t hear ANYTHING about YOU and YOUR LIFE!! What do you do for work? What do you do for fun? It feels like this man is your whole world. Whatever your marital horror story is – it feels like it’s playing out again here. This is therapy time – and the best therapy is free – Circular Dating. You have to learn how to hold onto yourself in a relationship with a man. It’s as though you don’t quite even exist outside of him…That’s where your work is. I know you can do this…A man who has not moved to commitment – or is at least moving in that direction after 4 months or so is worthless to you, except as practice, and as a man to date, if he’s good and fun and you enjoy him and are not hung up on him. And he is not any of those good things – at least you don’t say you feel calm and peaceful and loved with him…Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:26pm
109: Katie
says:
Linda,
Hi again. What you said feels strong and positive, and seems like you’re in your own power!
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:30pm
110: Rori Raye
says:
Natural Goddess, what a great situation for us to work with and help you with! First – you are NEVER NOT going to be a work-in-progress, and I know many women who landed fantastic men when they were at rock-bottom – so “waiting” until you’re “together” is a useless point-of-view. Focusing on yourself and getting a car – if that’s what you’d feel good about right now – for nighttime, there’s always taxis…is a great place for you to be. Stopping feeling like you have to BE something for a man is the place where we can help you here. You are the prize (you got evidence of that at the party —what a great thing…Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:40pm
111: Rori Raye
says:
Cinderella, Thank you for the comment, and Welcome! Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:41pm
112: Rori Raye
says:
Megan, Welcome , and I don’t want to dismiss your situation or your feelings – but that fact that you care so much about something that is totallly gone and over tells me that yur work is in your self-esteem. You say you hate games, yet that’s what you’re suggesting. Everything you said to him before was spot-on, and he got it – though I really want you to look at all the calling and texting you did (do you still do that? Please…no…). Just be you – feel how you feel say how you feel, and don’t TRY to feel any differently than you feel. Simple. Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 2:56pm
113: Rori Raye
says:
Natural Goddess – take a look at my Heart Connection Toolkit – it’s almost all “meditations” – in the sense that just listening to it will help you – and my “Body Dialogues” are in there. They will help you tremendously. There may be posts here on that, too. Love, Rori
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 3:01pm
114: Stacey
says:
Letspa– I did ask him about marrying me and his answer was that I forced it on him and he couldnt get out of it. He went on to tell me that he doesnt like being “shackled” and that he feels he doesnt “have it” anymore. I get so angry that I pretty much dont even talk to him anymore…its not worth the argument. Ive been trying to follow Rori’s advice and use feeling statements but usually he just tells me he doesnt care and to go whine to one of my friends. As far as dating or flirting goes….marriage to me is a commitment and I dont agree with dating someone else while im married and really I dont go out or anything so flirting is all but impossible.
Rori–I think we just got a really bad counselor. He let my husband think everything was my fault and didnt make him take responsibility for anything he did in our couple sessions and then turned around and told me I needed to get out in the private ones. So my husband left feeling he was right and I was the one that was crazy.
Im confussed, hurt and not sure what to do next. Im sorry this is really rambling and Im sounding like a flaky teenager or something……so I will go for now. ~~hugsto all~~
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 8:38pm
115: Daria
says:
Stacey its very important that you START going out ASAP. Join some classes that are fun for you.
Also make sure to flirt and do the tools with men while grocery shopping etc.
It would feel awful to be told not to whine, I would tell him it feels awful and I feel furious and want some time to myself now and leave the room or even the house and go out.
Thursday, 18 February 2010 @ 9:51pm
116: T.R.
says:
Linda,
I feel happy for you, that you are in this place. You have made great steps forward! You are strong and beautiful!!
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 12:29am
117: Linda
says:
Thank you for your support. I do feel strong. There are fleeting moments when I feel sad because I will genuinely miss some of him. That would be only about 10% missing him and 90% glad that I am not wasting any more time on someone who makes promises that he does not intend to keep.
It is great to feel in my heart of hearts that I know I gave this my best. I was open, giving, soft and strong.
He gave me every indication, (even in actions for a while) that he was sincere, had stepped up and claimed me…. but in the end he would not follow thru. I love my strength in calling him on his BS and watching him back down, watching him sink down in his own stew. I love that I was able to speak my truth and not let any of his words sink in and errode me.
I love most of all this time that am no longer hoping that he will change and that I am going to have to be patient a little longer. I have no more interest. Character is so important. Integrity, honesty, loyalty is essential for me. ….. if it is not there then there is no point. I will not waste any more of my time.
SS and Gina… I love what you ladies wrote. So candid.
Daria… I loved your comment…. I dont want friendship with sex… I want a man who wants me is into me and wants to marry me is ready to share his life and heart with me without reserve.
S was like this when he came back into my life at Christmas…. but when it comes down to it… he did not mean any of it. Remember the little story about the Boy who Cried WOLF…. That is what S is to me now. His words mean nothing and fall on deaf ears now….. His actions did all the talking.
Linda
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 4:33am
118: Terry
says:
I feel furious. I feel rejected. I feel triggered by past memories. I feel exhausted from last night.
One of my best friends called me last night. She was asking me about the guy who I’d been seeing on and off this past year, (the guy I mentioned above), the guy who showed up at my door two months ago right before Christmas, professing his love and how much he missed me, the guy who wanted to work on this no matter what it takes… the guy who I never heard from again after that night. He didn’t contact me Christmas or New Years. Of course, I figured he was gone. And I felt turned off.
My friend said she needed to come over to tell me something. I felt intrigued and a little bad. Her voice sounded frenzied. Turns out that guy is engaged. It happened over the holidays. What a flake. Well, that explains his on again and off again behavior.
He and I talked about six months ago. He complained I wasn’t doing enough for him. He explained what he needed. I used lots of feeling messages and told him what I wanted and didn’t want. His requests were almost a bit girly, but I felt we made lots of progress. I read a post on here where someone used the phase “he tried to out-girl me” or something like that. What exactly does that mean?
Feelings of rejection are bubbling up. The same ones I felt when my husband disappeared ten years ago. I haven’t experienced these feelings for quite awhile. This feels so bad.
My friend talked to this guy a couple of days ago. His number one complaint about me? I wasn’t doing enough for him. He felt I wasn’t into him enough. What?! I feel confused. I feel angry.
Rori, could you or someone on here help explain the difference between leaning back and coming across as not being interested? Some examples maybe? I feel jumbled.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 8:19am
119: Linda
says:
I am dumb founded… after everything.. EVERYTHING! He texts me… says he hopes I got some rest and wants to know how my day is going? OMGosh does he not get it?
Why do men do this? Why do we fall for men like this?… Why? I feel worried for myself. I feel concerned that I will slip and want to talk to him. Fix things….I am such a fighter for the way of restoration in so many way on lots of levels.
After everything, all the loss, the anger, the words, the broken promises, there is a thread of pull toward the desire for restsoration… reconsiliation. Today that makes me feel worried and weak and unresolved.
I was just listening to Tiger Woods speach…. He said he needed to learn to stop following impulses and to excercise restraint, relying on his core values and holding most important the things that matter most… Self deception is an ugly and powerful thing and reaks havoc in lots of ways, in lots of people from all walks of life I feel contemplative about all of that.
Linda
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 8:28am
120: Goodheart
says:
Rori, I have just recently listened to your Modern Siren cds & have also read your ebook. The event that spurred me to do this was being put in the “friend” category after a 3 month relationship with a man that I thought had the potential for being “the one” for me. It stung very badly, but I wasn’t going to let it bring me down & prevent me from finding the “true one.” After listening to the cds & reading your blog, I started practicing the feeling statements. Prior to this, I was up in my head almost exclusively. It felt very weird to be saying “I feel” so much. I felt a little unauthentic, which is the opposite of what I want to be. I recently met two men & had 2 very nice coffee dates. I could tell they were both physically attracted to me & enjoyed my company, but I’m getting the distinct feeling that I’m being “friendized” again. The first man has called me twice since our first meeting 5 days ago. After the coffee date he asked if we could go somewhere else for a drink or something. I declined & suggested we save that for another time. We kicked around the idea of Wednesday (we met on Sunday). He said he would contact me. In the meantime, a good friend of mine emailed & asked me to dinner for Wednesday & I accepted. The man from coffee called Tuesday night & asked what I was doing Wednesday. I was honest & told him I had plans. He texted me the next night & we exchanged a few casual texts in which I used feeling messages, “I feel relaxed” “I feel good about how my day went,” etc. He called the next night (last night & we chatted, laughed, had a nice talk). Again, I used feeling statements, even if they felt a little awkward. He did not ask me out. Texted me a couple times before I went to bed. My question is, if he was romantically interested, wouldn’t he have tried to make plans with me? I am also feeling something similar from the man I had coffee with last night. He was definitely physically attracted to me as he stated so & I could tell from his face & body language. I leaned back a lot, used feeling messages, let him do most of the talking (so NOT like me!). He even commented that he felt like he was talking a lot. As he walked me to my car he said he really enjoyed meeting me & would like to see me again, asked if I preferred if he called or emailed. I said I felt good with either one. I did lean in & give him a hug as he was standing there rather awkwardly & said he was really nervous. I didn’t feel akward hugging him as I’m a “hugger.” It doesn’t mean anything to me. He emailed me this morning & said he really enjoyed meeting me & can usually tell from the first meeting if he’s compatible with someone, but with me he couldn’t tell. His quote, “I find you pretty, smart & you have a good heart. Things I value. I think it would be worth it for me to go out with you again & see. I have your number & will call you. When is the best time?”
I felt rather deflated reading this as I really had a good feeling from last night that he was “smitten” with me. My honest feeling while I was with him was that he would be someone to date, but I didn’t get a feeling of “forever” with him. I mostly just found him physically attractive. So I won’t be devastated if we are not compatible, but isn’t part of being a siren about mesmerizing every man in my path? I am feeling that these men are finding me, like the man who I recently broke up with did, just a gal pal & nothing more. I know it is hard to tell from just an email what I might be doing wrong, but I am getting so tired of not being thought of in a romantic way. I’m always told I have “such a good heart” & that I”m “so pretty” but I’m not evoking that forever feeling in my dates. They either want to hang out with me or sleep with me (which I don’t do unless there’s strong potential for commitment – so it’s been AWHILE!) Any comments, suggestions would be so much appreciated. I have not replied to the second man’s email yet. Thanks so much.
Good Heart
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 10:47am
121: Rori Raye
says:
Terry – the missing piece is what happens when you lean back and the man moves forward to you. This is Modern Siren all the way – about being an invitation and opening up to a man when he shows up. There’s a sensuality to it, a sexuality to it, a melti-ness to it, and it just feels open to him, without feeling like a trap. It feels like he has to WORK for you, but then when he gets there, he’s rewarded. It’s something you have to practice and experience – which is what Circular Dating is for. That said – this man wasn’t for real – he was checking you out one last time to make sure he was ready to marry the other woman. There’s nothing you could have done in that scenario – because you had no connection with him, and she did. Next time the man will be yours. Love, Rori
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 10:48am
122: Rori Raye
says:
Stacey – I’m with Daria on this…You need to back way up…I’d love to know what the counselor said to you about you..and did you take any private sessions with him? Feeling Messages are NOT “complaints” – so go back and take a look at how you’re talking to him, and see if you’re making him wrong…or if you’re expecting him to fulfill needs you should be fulfilling for YOURSELF. That would be a great place to start. Love, Rori
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 10:51am
123: Aldonza
says:
Subscribing to new post.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 11:49am
124: Terry
says:
Rori, I feel triggered. I feel mad. I feel incensed. Reward him with what? Our last night together was the closest we’d ever been, especially emotionally. I felt open and melty. Everything was romantic and very open-hearted. I feel used. I feel misled. I feel angry for believing him.
I have become almost OCD about reading the ebook and listening to the materials. I do my best to practice everything. I do Circular date. I’ve said no to being a girlfriend. To be honest, I don’t “get” some of Modern Siren yet. Parts of it make no sense to me. I feel stupid. I try and I try. I practice ad nauseum.
This guy told my girlfriend that I didn’t do enough for him and this other woman does EVERYTHING for him. And she emphasized everything. I don’t know what “everything” is. Frankly, sounds exhausting to me. Maybe he just made up that excuse. Obviously, he wasn’t the man for me.
I just canceled out on girl’s night out. I don’t feel going out. I don’t feel like circular dating tonight. I’m taking off work early. I feel like going home and crying…like a baby. I feel tears welling. I feel tightness and a lump in my throat. I feel worried and embarrassed that co-workers will see my sadness. I’ve got to get out here.
I feel regressed. I feel embarrassed for writing all this.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 1:19pm
125: Siena
says:
“This guy told my girlfriend that I didn’t do enough for him and this other woman does EVERYTHING for him.”
Terry, I feel your frustration! When I read your post, it made me think of an old boyfriend who wanted me to do everything for him in the relationship while he also wanted to manage the relationship. In essence, he wanted to be both the masculine and feminine energy.
Didn’t work.
You either give/do (masculine) or receive/are (feminine). You can’t be both – that’s narcissism.
There have been so many missing pieces for me that Rori has helped with, perhaps this is one of those for you.
The guy you’re talking about – sounds like he wants to be the feminine, receiving energy. His partner sounds like a masculine, doing energy.
If someone told me this back then when I was dealing with my ex, I would have said, “but sometimes he was VERY masculine, like for instance when…”. But I also knew that he wanted his feelings cherished. My ex was a little boy – a narcissist.
Perhaps this is why you feel so triggered? You leaned back and were feminine, but he did too/was too. It sounds like it didn’t work for you here for the same reason it didn’t work for me back then…
Just some thoughts – love to you,
Siena
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 1:55pm
126: Siena
says:
P.S. – as I wrote this, I realize that I might sound preachy, and I don’t want to come off that way at all. I am learning sooo much on these forums because of Rori and the other women who have shared their experiences. I am just sharing mine also…
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 2:04pm
127: Terry
says:
Thanks, Siena,
I went to the office washroom to try and fix my blubbery face. No luck. Cried too hard. Nose is swollen. Came back to shut down my computer to leave when I saw your responses.
You’re so sweet to respond. No, you didn’t sound preachy at all. I feel a little calmer actually.
I felt my eyes widen when you said, “it made me think of an old boyfriend who wanted me to do everything for him in the relationship while he also wanted to manage the relationship.” “You either give/do (masculine) or receive/are (feminine). You can’t be both – that’s narcissism.”
Wow, that was my ex-husband. That was also this guy. I see it now. I wasn’t willing to go along having everything on his terms. Maybe the other women is masculine energy.
I was masculine energy for many years. I have a very masculine energy job. I am trying to be more feminine energy in my relationships with men. It feels better to me. Maybe I was always attracting feminine energy guys in the past.
I feel too tired to discern it now. I feel drained.
Thanks again, Siena. Love to you, too.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 2:44pm
128: Terry
says:
Oops, I meant “other woman” not women.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 2:46pm
129: Lori
says:
subscribing to new post….
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 2:47pm
130: Robin
says:
Terry, Im so sorry. I wish I could give you a hug. I can really feel your sadness, and I want to lift you up and I pray that you find the encouragment to realize that this man just DOESN’T DESERVE YOU!!!!!
Sometimes our emotions are so powerful that we just naturally sink into them. They’re just too powerful to stuff down, and I really feel like thats a good thing-its easier access to the soup. Feel those emotions and revel in them since they are going to bring you to something bigger and better!
Things like that just don’t happen without a reason, and I trust that God and the universe are looking out for whats best for you.
As Imm writing this, I have to listen to my own words. My ex is moving into a new house with his gf, and the wedding is suppossed to happen sometime after that. And yet, he’s been coming forward to me. My mom told me to proceed with caution and about how she was seeing a man who asked her to marry him, go to the city hall that very day, but she said she didnt want to marry like that, and that night a girl showed up at her door while they were playing board games with his children. Turned out that man was engaged to her and the next day he married her.
So I have to remember that myself. Maybe he’s just checking me out before marrying his gf, I don’t know. This is a pattern of some kind.
Ok, so now what am I missing here?
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 4:06pm
131: Orna Walters
says:
Oh Terry, Wow! Your post brought back a memory I have not thought of in a long time. I had a bf who was in my social circle, long story short, I thought he was coming back to me. A psychic even told me he was going to propose to me. Well, he did propose – to the gf who he was with before me! I found out about two hours before seeing both of them at a party.
I was crushed. I was angry. I didn’t understand.
I’m happy to hear you say that he is not the right one. Its true he is not. So what you can do now is really focus on you. What gift was he here to deliver to you? Why did you chose that experience? Was this relationship part of a pattern and you can see it more clearly now and break it?
Leaning back is all about giving a man the space to blossom into a relationship. When you practice, then you find out if a particular man CAN blossom.
Its not a game, its really about being respectful. When you truly love someone there is a boundary of respect between you.
1+1 = 2
Work on being complete. Love yourself – ALL of YOU – the good, the bad and the ugly and then that will be mirrored back at you in a delightful, yummy, relationship that delivers everything you ever dreamed of and more.
Keep practicing.
xx
Orna
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 5:09pm
132: kay
says:
Siena great post! It made me think about all the men that I attracted that new how to out girl me, they just wanted there feelings cherished all the time and wanted to manage the masculine aspect of the relationship when it imposed upon him in some way, he didn’t want to be masculine much too hard for him but he didn’t appreciate me being in my masculine energy either so he would attempt to manage me, manage that part of me through lying, through avoiding, through some for of verbal and emotional abuse, through growling scowling anger, through flirting and cheating gosh your post took me back, way back.
Typical narcissistic man-boy have my cake and eat it too mentality.
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 5:33pm
133: No Bliss
says:
Thank you all for your support.
I have a to ell, my story story a while ago you may have read. Being with a guy for 17years , 3 kids, etc.. Well i am ashamed to say the reason i am like i am today. I caved in.
He promised me the world again, to get help, more us and family time. Wanted to fix what he broke. It was all talk.
We are back on the same ol’ merry-go-round. He ‘s picking up ladies on the net, having coffee hanging out, going to their birthday parties etc.
Yelling at me all the time, for being unhappy, he calls it grumpy old cow, whose getting thick around the middle, but that what happens at my age. can’t have a young body forever, so all i can do to help myself is try and tone up.
To get off this circle of destruction, is so hard. Cause the nice man shows is face every now and then.
What to do, he’s back to secrecy, going away for work coming back and just hitting the town, no time for us.
I sound pathetic, I know. One shouldn’t need a man. Not one like this.
He won’t leave unless, i kick him out..
Thats not fair..
sorry for going on… no one understands, he’s not here tonight, out supposedly at a mates house.
Body image issues – yes maybe all my life, but worse of late, hitting a mile stone bday and a man that is happy to compare you to young ladies and be friend them is a slap in the face..
thanks again for listening.
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:49am
134: Lori
says:
No Bliss,
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. My question to you is if he is going out, why aren’t YOU? You could also go out and do things you like to do with girlfriends, male friends, yourself etc! You should be circular dating or at the very least date yourself! Sitting around waiting for him and wondering what he is doing will just make you crazy. Maybe even just take your laptop and go to a bookstore or cafe that has WIFI and log on here and post and read other posts. And smile at every man who makes eye contact with you! Whatever gets you out and takes your mind off of him and what he is and isn’t doing. Free therapy!
As far as the comparing you to younger women and insulting you goes, why take it? If it were me, I’d deliver a feeling message something like “It makes me feel bad when you call me names and compare me to other women. I don’t want to feel like that anymore.” And then just walk away from him. Go to another room and do something that makes you feel good-take a bath or read a book or just hug yourself. Or go out and see a movie or go to a book store etc. Whatever removes you from the situation that makes you feel bad and makes you feel good instead. Men like that feel in control when they know you will stand there and be an audience for their bad behavior. You take control away from him when you take away his audience. He can’t exactly sit there and call the wall or empty room a fat cow! If he learns over time that insulting you will take away the control he feels, he will stop as it is not getting him that feeling of control he wants anymore.
As far as the “thick in the middle” and body image issues, I have to say it’s all about confidence. My best friend is 4 inches shorter and at least 50 pounds heavier than I am and definitely a thicker woman. I’m a size 4 and a former swimsuit model and I can assure you that when she and I go out, she gets more attention than I do. We can walk into a place and she has people lined up to talk to her within minutes. It’s like she mesmerizes people when she walks into a room, and there is nothing physically outstanding about her and she doesn’t have a great job or anything particularly interesting about her life. She just has a quiet confidence that draws people to her.
She also has a fabulous man who absolutely adores her and treats her like a queen while I have a ragtag assortment of circular dating guys that are nothing to write home about at the moment! The difference is, she OWNS her weight. She LOVES her body the way it is and has a pretty high degree of difficulty when it comes to how she expects to be treated. And the men FLOCK to her. She’s engaged and has other men begging her not to get married and give them a chance. She’s actually one of my real life inspirations when it comes to how I perceive a goddess to be. Although I might be considered more physically attractIVE than she is by society’s standards, people are more attracTED to her. She is living proof that attraction is not determined by attractiveness if that makes sense. I’m here to learn how to be more like her!
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 6:19am
135: MA Moore
says:
I have a new neighbor. The week before Valentines Day, he came over and we bonded. He told me how much he loved me and wanted to marry me. We cuddeled and canoodeled for three days. I felt like I was on a honeymoon! Valentine’s Day weekend, I never got a phone call, flowers or a hello! What a total jerk! He is Mr. Trash with no class!
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 12:19pm
136: kay
says:
You don’t have to kick him out physically from the house, just kick him out of your mind, your heart, your thoughts and give yourself permission to circular date as Lori pointed out so perfectly.
I’m not skinny by any means but men seem to just give me there energy, I was at the store yesterday and this guy just stared at me until I looked up and another man spoke to me with a smile on his face and I’m not doing anything but minding me, minding my life and I’m happy about my weight, I could stand to get in shape but I’m certainly not beating myself up over it and I won’t allow anyone else to beat me up either.
There just has to come a time when you put you first, you can’t control him but you certainly can control your own happiness. I have so much more I want to say but I’m feeling sad from your post, I will chime in later.
Stay strong inside, your important, you deserve love and everything about you, from head to toe is beautiful, stretch marks, that middle age spread it’s all wonderful and sexy and beautiful, own it.
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 3:02pm
137: No Bliss
says:
You are all so right, I feel sad that I am letting this happen to me. I would love to know that a man looks at me and we make even eye contact. But this never happens, I work in a male dominated job, for 15 years and have never even been chatted up or looked at this way..
Wow that must make you feel amazing.
I want to do all that you are talking about, but it feels like I would be, being unfaithful. I think that is my main problem, ok for him but if i do it , its cheating.
I so need friends like you ladies in my life
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:53pm
138: amanda
says:
I have been heartbroken due to my boyfriend vanishing on me before the Holidays this year. On Valentine’s Day I felt awful cos I hadn’t heard from him still, and had to assume he was with a new (or former) gf. I got an invitation to go out with an artist and went, it was very nice – no romance between us but he did really squire me about, kept taking pictures and drawing me the whole time, and it was a total “ego bath” which was a blessing. Went to MOMA to see exhibits, to dinner and two jazz clubs!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 8:00am
139: rebeka
says:
without too many details, i left my fiance because he was lying. repeatedly. just found out before christmas, promised he would change – already has lied again. and despite visual evidence, vehemently swears that he has not been lying. made me feel like i am going crazy. so on valentines day i left. just could not anymore. told him i never wanted to talk to him again. so here is my question, because that is not true. i DO want him, but not the lies. i wrote him a letter explaining this (did not send) but i want to. i just dont want him to cling to the one phrase and then even if he wants to contact me he will not because of it. can i send the letter?
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:30am
140: dorothea
says:
That is an interesting question, rebeka. though i feel that liars don’t change when they say they will. they change long after youre gone, if ever. sometimes they come back to let u know.
i have been through this a few times with guys. the “i want you but just not the lies,” but it didn’t get better at a satisfactory rate and left me feelings crazed. even after they said they wanted me and were sorry and would show me they would be honest, these men still would rather have me believing i was insane than admit they were lying. that felt horrible. oh. man.
rebeka, we can’t want the men themselves more than we want the relationship and treatment we deserve and want. we can HOPE he’ll change, but we can’t convince them to with our words. telling him you didn’t mean for him to stay away and just to stop lying are words you’ve used to convince him before to act right that have failed. this time you’ve set a real boundary and now you want to practically take it back.
love yourself enough to be realistic about how his behavior makes you feel, and how he said he would stop but didn’t. don’t invite what feels bad back into your life. if he wants you, he will be back. at least take a couple of weeks seeing how it feels without him around, and use that time to start circular dating. even if you were to take a month to see how it feels without him, if you wanted to start talking to him again there’s no reason you couldn’t. and if there’s something he does or on his end that makes it so you can’t talk to him again at that point, then he obviously was good riddance!
you do not deserve to be lied to! it is not your fault! it is not your fault! it is not your responsibility to give him an open door! you are not responsible for him!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:56am
141: Rori Raye
says:
Welcome, Amanda, and Brava to you for Circular Dating! Love, Rori
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 10:06am
142: Rori Raye
says:
MA Moore, Welcome – and you can call a man Trash all you want – but the question always is “Why am I here?” and for you the question is – why in heaven’s name would I “bond” with a neighbor I barely know, cuddling and canoodling for 3 days – without (it seems from your comment), leaving my apartment? In the movies this works – but not in real life. (Actually – I DO know of one time this has worked, but the couple knew each other before, had dated before and broken up once, and this time she just moved in and that was that – but very, very unusual man.) Please demand regular dating. He picks me up, he takes me out, I kiss him goodnight at my door, we do this a bit, and then we move on…Love, Rori
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 10:11am
143: Rori Raye
says:
Goodheart – Welcome and Thank you so much for the detail…Listen, there’s just something missing here in either the “Invitation” part of this or in your Boundaries, Degree of Difficulty, Self-Love part. We’re putting together “Strong Surrender” here – and most of the time, it’s in the “Surrender” part – the Modern Siren part that needs the work. So – please just keep practicing. You’re drawing in good men to practice with – so you’re doing great – now it’s just the “tweaking.” If you FEEL “Inauthentic” there’s something not working right – and I don’t want you to ever feel like this. You might feel silly, out of control, goofy, bimbo-ish – but inauthentic, that we don’t want. It’s a clue your feeling messages aren’t coming from your heart – they’re still coming from your head somehow – so use the more physical tools – touching things, the Sensual Meditation…and work those while you’re with a man. Feeling Messages should feel like the Truth. If you don’t feel relaxed – saying you feel relaxed is not authentic – hope this was helpful…(I’d love to talk with you so I can get at this quickly…makes me want to hurry up and get my teleclass together so I can hear your voices.) Love, Rori
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 10:21am
144: Rachel
says:
On feeling messages…. is it always important to actually use the word “feel”? For example, it feels more natural for me to say “I’m really excited!” than to say “I feel really excited!” Or “I’m sorry I missed you” instead of “I feel sorry that I missed you.”
Does it matter as long as the feeling is being conveyed? Or is the word “feel” a key part of the actual expression? Just trying to learn here!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 1:11pm
145: Goodheart
says:
Rori, thank you so much. I feel that you are right about the degree of difficulty. I have been much too accomodating with men – driving to their side of town, meeting when it’s convenient for them. I believe I’m trying too hard to be nice (stems from things from my childhood) & need to stop this. I did email the 2nd man & said, “I feel from your email that maybe you are being cautious because you are unsure about how I felt our meeting went. I can understand that. I enjoyed meeting you, beyond that I can’t say. It was a first meeting. I felt a good first meeting.” His reply was, “You read my mind. I was feeling unsure about what you thought.” We talked last night on the phone & have a date set up for Thursday. It hit me last night that I need to up my degree of difficulty because this man said to me, “Pick a place by your work so you don’t have to drive so far after working all day.” That floored me, as the men I had been going out with were all about meeting half-way. And I was doing it! Yes, bring on your tele-class. I would so much enjoy it. I do feel I am getting closer & very much appreciate all of your resources. I will work on expressing myself authentically from my heart. There’s a lot going on up in my head so this will be a challenge for me
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 1:18pm
146: tinque
says:
Rachel – It depends. When you’re new to this, it’s a good idea to use the word “feel” as much as possible. You’ll eventually get a sense of what feels right FOR YOU. Some here like Daria as an example use “feel” ALL the time, and this works very well for her. Others use “feel” only when something serious needs to be conveyed.
I mix it up. Sometimes I use it more than others. If it’s a situations where I need to express my hurt or anger or something that’s a bad feeling feeling, I will use “feel” consistently.
I also make a point of expressing how I feel when I feel really good too, as in after sex, and it just all feel SO good, and I feel SO safe laying in my man’s arms.
I feel it’s as if not more important to express a afeel good feeling.
You will accustom to using the word “feel”. Like anything that’s new, it can feel strange.
xxoo
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 1:23pm
147: Rachel
says:
Thank you, Tinque. I am using “feel” almost all the time, but sometimes it feels awkward. I feel like the guy is going to think I’m psycho-babbling or something! But so far, the feeling messages are working.. even though they feel strange at times.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 2:18pm
148: Wonder Woman
says:
Hi everyone,
Ooooh where to begin. Well basically I’ll start with a quick intro. I’m a 31 year old single mum from the UK, stumbled across this site a couple of months ago and have read the posts and felt connections with many of the stories posted. I myself have a history of dating toxic men. Don’t know whether to go into it all it may take forever….lol Anyway, the long and short of it is that I am now living on my own with my six year old son, 2 dogs and a cat. I feel very mixed up when it comes to relationships. I left home at 17 and was very independent…..own flat….good job…met my first serious boyfriend at 19 (had been a regular social diva prior to this…..but just wasn’t interested in men….too many friends…..too much fun…..relationships looked like hassle…..men lining up to date me and I couldn’t have cared less……this was when I was a true diva……I didn’t need men…..I loved myself and was happy. I had very clear boundaries….I didn’t sleep with anyone until I got with serious boyfriend number one. Still have many of the same attitudes….have never had a one night stand and can still count my sexual partners on one hand. Anyway, now several toxic relationships later I don’t relate to who I was/have been. I know I have terrible self esteem, come off needy and desperate. The past few years have been particularly hard as my best friend in the whole world died three years ago and I haven’t had that girlie outlet and honesty that I shared with her and it has all been compounded with times of depression and I also suffer from OCD at times of stress. I feel ugly and hate my body and my looks. I don’t make the effort I used to anymore to make myself look good, I don’t see the point. I feel so sad that I seem to have lost the control over my life that I once had. I gave up a good career last year to study (good salary wise…not that I was fulfilled or happy in my job) and I don’t regret that but I know I did it out of pressure from my family to be a homely mum and not because I wanted to at the time. I give into everyone. I know people see me as a door mat and when I do say no people are so shocked they berate me for it and then I say yes because I have a massive guilt complex and feel compelled to make everyone happy at the expense of my own happiness. I have been single a year and a half now and have been on several dates but I end up feeling low and drained afterwards…..(yes I realise now I am probably attracting many of the same toxic men I always do and that’s probably why). I simply have no faith left in men. I have never been a serial dater or even had to really date so I think I find it just overwhelming to think I need to date…..I just have never really done that before. I know I need to change my perspective. I find the stories here so fasinating but it’s scary to think I can do these things. I keep thinking it won’t apply to me. I feel like the men in the UK won’t relate to this because they are not in tune with their feelings and what’s more the guy I am currently thinking I would like to date is Eastern European so I think this won’t work. I never had the confidence to post on here but then yesterday I put a comment on a friends facebook post about how I am to blame for all my rubbish relationships, how I realise the blame falls on my shoulders (I am a sucker for some nice words and want to believe every man I meet is honest and decent and trustworthy) and oh my goodness the response was overwhelming. A man I don’t know told me he admired my honesty, girls telling me they relate to it……the thing is I didn’t think I was being honest, just sharing a thought and feeling (had no idea I was even doing it when I wrote it but obviously this website had some effect on me) so finally after all my procrastinating I’m thinking JUST DO IT, just get on board with new ideas and go back and find the old me. The new improved old me…..I feel so happy thinking about who that woman is…..I never stop to say how I feel….this is amazing. I know there are many bits missing from this and I am jumping around a little but I have never exposed my feeling or thoughts like this and I feel enriched and nervous and scared and excited for doing this and not sure where to go next with it all. As mentioned I am currently communicating with a guy who is from East Europe (I met him through another guy I met with the intention of dating but who turned out to be toxic….lol)….anyway originally I only planned to be friends with this new guy….we have arranged to go out next Saturday to a theme park…..another friend of his who I know will also be there so it won’t be an intimate date. I never intended for it to be it’s just that over the past few weeks our communication has got more open and flirty and I feel as though I am getting attracted to this guy…..and there lies the problem….I can feel myself getting clingy. I am the ultimate leaning forward machine and I know I have done it a few times in our communication by IM and I want to stop it NOW!! I just don’t know how to approach this date which isn’t a date…or is it?? My initial feeling is to be fun and friendly but is this wrong?? Please help and thanks for reading. xx
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 3:35pm
149: Lori
says:
Feeling very goddess- like today. Mr. Fabulous from 2 weeks ago finally asked me for a second date but we were struggling to get our schedules together because he was out of town this weekend for a golf tournament and I was busy on the days he was free. Finally he just said he really wanted to see me again and if I was still free Saturday he wanted to take me out. He drove 2 hours from the golf tournament, took me out and treated me like a queen again, and then drove 2 hours back to the town where the tournament was being held at because he had to get up and compete early this morning!
I know I’ve said it before, but there is nothing that compares to dating like this. I leaned back and he rowed and made me feel safe, secure, beautiful, soft, appreciated etc. For the first time I see how attractive it is for a man to be “the man” and me to just be “the woman”. I feel so much more relaxed and happy dating like this than doing all of the rowing myself like I did in the past. I can’t even find the words to describe it, but it just feels so natural to be this way. And guess what else? He described me in his own words as “soft yet strong, very feminine and very real”!!!!!!!!!!
Even a goodnight kiss seems more romantic and special when it comes after the man has been doing the rowing. And I’m not having to go through the motions anymore-it’s real now. I melted into him and STOPPED THINKING (I’m a very analytical person by nature, so this was hard to get used to) and just concentrated on how it felt to be held and kissed by this man. How it felt, how he smelled and tasted, how strong his arms felt around me, how soft and beautiful I felt etc. I fell asleep with a smile on my face and woke up this morning and could still smell his cologne on me and just felt totally dreamy!
The funny thing is, one of my circular dating guys is a model and drop dead gorgeous, but I’m more attracted to Mr. Fabulous because of his manliness and how he makes ME feel!
Another thing I’ve noticed is that after a date like this, men who are “baby men” seem to stand out so much more obviously. I don’t know what will happen with Mr. Fabulous and at this point it really doesn’t matter. I’m not even doing my usual over thinking and worrying about whether or not he’s into me and when I’ll see him again and if it will work out or not. I’m simply enjoying the dreamy aftermath of a fabulous date. I can’t stop sighing and smiling! I can’t remember the last time I enjoyed myself so much (when sex wasn’t involved anyway haha). And although I’d love to have sex with him, I’m in no hurry. I’m just enjoying it for whatever it is right now. No matter if it goes further or not, I’ve stepped through a new door with him and don’t ever intend to go back to dating the old way and the old types of men again!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 3:56pm
150: Wonder Woman
says:
Oh you know I just re-read my post and one line really stood out at me……..”it won’t be an intimate date. I NEVER INTENDED FOR IT TO BE” Yes I arranged the fun day out/date…..see I told you I lean forward….but I want to explain….at the time I had been telling him about fun places to visit in the UK (he lives about an hours drive from me) so anyway I mentioned this theme park and he was like “so when can we go” so I said “oh ok” and it was arranged with 2 other friends so 4 of us in total but one dropped out so it was just three of us going as friends. Now even worse than this….and prepare to roll your eyes…..I not only arranged this day out but I paid for it in advance because I wasn’t sure if they knew how to do it (tickets had to be ordered online)….the idea being they will pay me back on the day….he has since joked that he is in my debt blah blah blah….ok, I know I did this thinking it was just friendship and at the time I wasn’t seeing anything more in it but have I messed this up already??…….The thing is he told me he was happy to order their tickets himself but I am such a lean forwarder…..I was like it’s ok I’ll do it….Why oh why do I do this….I am even worse when it comes to paying for dates….always the first to put my hand in my pocket……I used to think it was equality…..now I feel like an idiot…..hmmm to think I couldn’t find the strength to post on here I seem to be making up for lost time…. xx
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 4:30pm
151: No Bliss
says:
A question for you all,
Is it ok for your man to female friends that he hangs with, you are not to allowed to meet them or really know about them?
My guy – thinks that I am being unfair that he can not hang with new people he meets, he wants us to have separate friends..
Is this weird..
or am I being possessive and jealous, and I should just not get upset when he goes out all the time, with other people and doesn’t spend anytime with me other than the bedroom or at a kids basketball game.. Isn’t a relationship just a little bit more than that..
Please all, tell me – do I have blinkers on, am I the one killing my own relationship !
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 4:52pm
152: kay
says:
I said No for the first time to a guy, I mean a straight up and down No with no explanation, that was one of the most scariest feeling I have ever felt in my life.
He asked for more pictures, not that I don’t have about 20 already up on my profile, I said no and although I feel uncomfortable, scared even, I’m so proud of myself. I would have normally caved in and did it because that’s what I’m used to doing, used to seeking validation and approval in some kind of way with men.
I’m feeling really scared and happy all at once…
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:04pm
153: kay
says:
No bliss, I feel tremendous love for you right now, you really need it, your self esteem is taking a hit by being with a man that doesn’t want to be fair, he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Deep down you know through your own feelings that the terms his asking you to accept is selfish.
This guy doesn’t seem to want the same kind of commitment you want, his idea of what a relationship is totally different than your own ideas.
There really isn’t much you can say to convince him that he’s crossing YOUR boundary and he’s being unfair, the fact that he’s behaving this way would make me question if I’m in a “REAL” relationship or an imaginary relationship were everything is about him and his terms.
Maybe it’s time you start to focus less on what he’s doing and go out and begin to circular date, it’s clear you have the green light to do so since he’s making it clear he’s going to be doing a bit of circular dating of his own. Time to shift your life away from him, still allow him around if you want him there but it’s time to read the fine print of the terms and conditions of the relationship you thought you had as he’s already redefined those terms and conditions to suit him and his agenda.
Love & Blessings
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:11pm
154: kay
says:
Also I wanted to mention it’s time to use some feeling messages, let him know how his decisions make you feel without making him wrong, it’s not really about holding him hostage to your feelings, it’s just your way of saying how something effects you then he has to decide to either change the situation or allow you to hurt, one way or the other he will show you how important you are by his actions.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:15pm
155: Daria
says:
TELECLASS- !!! woohooo
sometimes I feel inauthentic when I’m leaning back and not feeling in the pauses. This is because I’m thinking of stuff to say or making judgements etc, but I’m not saying them. And instead Im sinking back and saying nothing.
I feel also kinda powerful and deep doing this. But it takes effort – which is not quite what we want is it. At the same time, it might take effort to retrain myself… a little confused on this.
For example sometimes when I “let myself go” with a man, and don’t focus on leaning back, I find myself chattering and play bantering until I feel drained-
how do I tweak this Rori?
what am I missing?
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:20pm
156: kay
says:
I just have to say this, I need to vent it out….I haven’t passed my pictures via cellphone in years, I don’t enjoy spending all my energy posing for a d*mn picture only to have to take a dozen more….My point is I just realized after saying no that I was “GIVING” to men, it’s funny how a man can sniff out weakness and ask a woman to give, I can’t say why men do this or if it’s instinctual but I am so done with “Giving” and depleting my emotional bank for the high of getting a bit of validation from a man.
I’m so done with “Takers” with men that have no problem asking and taking from a woman without giving anything first…Wow I would have never realized how awful him asking me for a picture made me feel inside if I had answered his request with a yes….okay I’m rambling today
Thank you Rori for helping me see the things I once denied.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:24pm
157: Daria
says:
Lori — thats exactly how i felt when i started to “get” circular dating!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:33pm
158: Daria
says:
Go KAY – I feel like that when I say NO also. Now I feel good, like chuckling inside, and also insecure, afraid I am a mean manipulative Goddess who is holding back, who is judging them as less than herself.
I love the darknesss.. obsidian blackness thank you for your womb
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:40pm
159: No Bliss
says:
Kay – thanks
I need to just let go, 17years is a long time, I feel maybe i am more afraid, he’s been out there the whole time, and i have been raising our kids.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 5:45pm
160: Rori Raye
says:
wonderwoman, Welcome, you sound wonderful and working to become aware of all your old overfunctioning patterns – and no – you haven’t messed anything up – and most important – this is PRACTICE!! If you can just keep the attitude that this is only practice, and the man in front of you is your practice partner and nothing else, you’ll be able to let go of that feeble “friends” thing that you go to in order to keep from feeling “clingy.” You can undo this and make up something new that works for you. Love, Rori
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 7:15pm
161: Lucy
says:
I keep running into this problem: I see the guy as my practice partner and nothing else, and then he falls in love with me and it becomes a very uncomfortable situation for me.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 8:22pm
162: Lucy
says:
Kay, I feel proud of you for bravely saying “no” and breaking your old pattern!!! Yay!
I feel curious about your not enjoying spending your energy posing for pictures, because I absolutely LOVE spending energy doing that.
It makes me feel good and beautiful and relaxed and goddessy. I never knew I could look good in pictures until I started taking them by myself with my cellphone — and I look AMAZING!!!! I have been told my photos are artistic, so maybe I enjoy taking them because it is like making art.
BUT, I’ve gotten so good at taking good pictures of myself that now I worry the guys will be disappointed in my looks when they meet me in person….
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 8:32pm
163: No Bliss
says:
Oh to have your confidence Lucy…
With the camera or even with a guy
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 8:35pm
164: dorothea
says:
Wonder Woman,
Nice! You are really focusing on yourself and feeling happier. I used to create a friends trap for myself by doing everything. For some reason this seemed to me to be an impressive thing I could do. But taking care of the details is only something that impresses bosses and friends when you plan their baby showers.
When you have this “un-date,” imagine you are a goddess that all men want, ESPECIALLY him because he is the latest to wander through your radar. Imagine he wants you and YOU are choosing whether or not to give him more of your time. Imagining that YOU are CHOOSING (which is really what we ought to be doing) will switch around some of that lean-forward energy you have and are worried about. This lean forward energy is about hoping HE will choose you or approve of you in some way.
Girl, lean back. You are loveable and considerate and organized. Know this in your heart and it will show, without you having to lean forward to prove it. We do not solicit men with our best qualities, but rather men solicit us for our time and affection because we radiate that we already have knowledge of our best qualities.
It’s not too late at all even if you’ve leaned forward like this already. We can even call it your experiment on planning things where dates are also going to be involved. But it’s never too late to just show up and be the girl. And you’re going to the amusement park! What better plan than an amusement park to be with yourself in so many exciting feelings… I feel in awe of this great ferris wheel view! I feel terrified of the upside down part of the rollercoaster! I am feelin major cravings for a sno-cone!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 8:54pm
165: Lucy
says:
No Bliss — Oh, I feel sad about that name, “No Bliss”! I would feel better giving myself a different name.
You noticed my confidence, but did you also see the LACK of confidence in the last sentence of that post??
That’s my growth edge….. And I’m not quite sure how to grow from there…..
Do you have a camera on your cell phone? I was so shocked when I first started getting good pictures of me! Lots of them came out bad, but I looked at each one after I took it to see what I could make better (and I just deleted the ones I didn’t like.) I relaxed and found a happy, peaceful, innocent, sultry, sensual place inside myself and just went into that zone. I experimented A LOT. And I got better and better at it (over several months) — and now (I feel embarrassed to say this) when I look at some of these pictures I think to myself “wow, these are beautiful — I should share these with the whole world and put them on walls and busses and posters and billboards!” I have never admitted that before, and it feels kind of weird! The thing is, I’m not very good-looking! I just got good at creating that illusion!! And that’s what scares me — I feel afraid that one man in particular — the one who has seen a lot of these pictures but not met me — I feel afraid that he will be disappointed in what I really look like. However, he is the one who saw my original ordinary pictures and told me he thought I could get better ones!
So, why not try it yourself? It made me feel so good to be able to look so appealing. Just PLAY with your camera. That was the attitude I took. The “zone” I went into with it was also sort of like getting in touch with my inner child — that little girl who wants to be beautiful and loved for who she is inside — and that made my inner beauty come out to the outside maybe??? I focused on being my soft, vulnerable self.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:18pm
166: Lucy
says:
Dorothea, I like what you wrote to Wonder Woman, especially the second paragraph — very helpful to ME!
Thanks!
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:24pm
167: No Bliss
says:
Lucy, Rori gave me that name a while ago, and i have just stuck with it.
I thought the day things change for the better i will change it to just ‘Bliss’ .
thinking about it and looking at others names, mine is depressing. maybe a new name will boost me up.
I did read your post, but I was just commenting on the good / positive.
I will try your idea, with the camera, i just lack any kind of confidence.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:32pm
168: Daria
says:
Man dorothea just rockx
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:47pm
169: Daria
says:
Lucy –
THANK YOU for the awesome tip on the cell phone pictures. I am dfeinteinly um (definitely) lol going to take some, then look at what i can make better, and retake retake.
I got really good at this with the webcam, but not the cell phone.
PS – I had/have that same worry, that I look better in my pictures,
But you know what, in real life, that IS Me. So i know that even if i have that thought, I will look good to the man, and so far it’s been working for me. They porobably see more good angles of me then even i can!Q
U know when you like someone,.. they just look good to you? or when someone is very confident, they just look good?
well i just imagine thats whats happening with me… theyre catching all the “good” glimpses of me and that’s what they’re noticing !
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:52pm
170: No Bliss
says:
Daria, Lucy,
ladies you are making my day.
Thank you
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:54pm
171: Daria
says:
Bliss -
You are beautiful! a woman and a Goddess! Happiness is your birthright, and being here is your claim to it.
I promise you WILL have what you want! Yes yes yes. Go for it.
It works for me, and nowadays faster and faster…. life has really really taken off from my old days of “no bliss”
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 9:54pm
172: Misconstrue
says:
Hi, firstly let me say that I’ve been reading the blogs this weekend and I think you ladies are fabulous. I love Rori’s advice and am beginning to feel empowered, albeit shadowy and elusive at times.
By way of introduction, I am 45, soon to be divorced after 3 years of seperation, mother of 2 teenage sons. Depressed and not gainfully employed at this point of time. I have, however, been involved with a toxic man for the last 2 years. He is gorgeous, intelligent, charming, and knows just what to say. That is, when he wants to.
He is the father of my son’s close friend (not as close now) and pretty much swept me off my feet with his attention after a marriage where I was not acknowledged to the point where we were physically intimate once in 8 years. I am not unattractive, toxic guy told me over and over (and still does) how attracted to me he was and it was so flattering. I resisted, I wasn’t actually interested in a relationship at that point, but after a few months of persistance, I took the advice of some of my friends and just enjoyed his attention. Then I fell, hook line and sinker.
To cut a long story short, he started lying and cheating after a year, but wouldn’t let me go. I have to admit, that I didn’t want him to, because I was so addicted to his charm and we got along so well, we still do. He went from declaring his undying love and wanting commitment, marriage and a child together, to distant, going away, lying and cheating. I think that he could make these declarations while there was no possibility that he could actually follow through with them and they couldn’t be tested.
My problem is, that he keeps trying to convince me that he is genuine and wants to do what it will take to make it work. This, after I discovered that he went to see someone else on Saturday night while telling me that he was going for a drive on his own. I knew he was lying. I had the proof and confronted him, now he says he doesn’t want to lose me. This is a man who has been on dating sites, seen other women, weekly and drives to my town every night to do his washing or eat dinner or just have a cup of tea. He just wont let up.
He has done some really horrible, hurting things. And I keep getting pulled back in. He is really trying to convince me, saying what can he do to make it up to my boys as well. They loved him for the first year, he is a very strong male, considered him more of a father than their own dad. Then he broke my heart and they hate him now.
I have not slept with him for 2 weeks, though he keeps trying. I have been establishing boundaries and want to stick to them, though it is temping sometimes to let them go. But I can’t because along with feelings of love and desire for him, I also feel fear and anguish. The last few times we made love, he told me that we were over afterwards. Not once, but 2 or 3 times.
Now that I have set boundaries and will not sleep with him, he is stepping up his campaign. He called today and said, I get the feeling that you don’t want to try again. I said, I love being with you, but i dont’ love the lies and the cheating and I think it is a bigger problem that won’t go away. He said, I will go away then. I said ok and he hung up. I felt pulled by him, but would not give in to it and decided that i would sit with it and not do anything. He texted 10 minutes later to say “I know you are in pain, I am too. I miss you.” I fear that it is just a ruse to draw me back in, just so that he can hurt me again.
Is it possible that he is serious, or is it just a game? I dont want to lose the hard ground work that I have done. I don’t want to betray myself. But I do love him. Should I just let it be and let him deal with the consequences? I have not replied and simply don’t know how to anyway.
Thanks for listening to me,
Liz
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 10:46pm
173: T.R.
says:
Hi ladies,
I have been trying to keep up on all of the posts, but am having a difficult time with it.
I have a circular dating question. I went on a date with a guy, and we have been hanging out for about a week. He is a guy who goes to my church (I have written about him before). We get along great. He kissed me tonight, and I felt weird. I think partly because I am not ready to be kissed yet, and partly because I have some feelings of unsettlement. Is this normal? Should you feel fireworks when you are first kissed? It has been so long since a first kiss…I am really feeling confused by this.
Sunday, 21 February 2010 @ 11:55pm
174: dorothea
says:
How did it feel to kiss him? Use at least 10 words total in your description. hehe
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 12:13am
175: Wonder Woman
says:
Wow….Rori, Dorothea, Lucy……thank you so much!! I feel so grateful that you see and understand and have such wonderful advice. I feel as though I want to cry with relief……as though I just found a group of people who get me. The girlie support I feel I haven’t had for such a long time. Not that I don’t have other girl friends in my life I do….but here the culture tends to be to laugh off problems and feelings of unease….we joke about them and don’t really discuss them. When I try to talk about self development with my friends and family they roll their eyes…..here it’s not cool to need therapy. I went to a relationship counsellor with my ex once, I really wanted to try it….what can I say…..it was a disaster…..but we laughed about it all the way home even though it meant we would have to call time on our relationship. That was a weird day!!…..anyway….like I said this is just an amazing experience for me.
Dorothea I love the idea that he is the latest to wander through my radar…..lol I love that…..that is exactly what the old me would have done….watched him as he tried to impress me so as to stand out from the rest of the contenders….lol I choose my chocolate with more thought and consideration….I want my chocolate to be my men……to get up and think…..Hmmmm I not really feeling like that one today….I think I’ll try this one…..lol
I also love approaching it from the “this is practice” angle. I feel like someone just lifted a massive weight off my shoulders with this approach. I think my big problem is that I get attached to men very easily and I can confuse my feelings with love…..I say I fall in and out of love very fast….but I don’t ever really fall out of love for them….and I know it isn’t really love I do feel it’s just that I am so used to feeling crummy and sick in relationships that when I get attached and they start to back off I get those feelings and relate them to my relationship feelings so I think I must be in love with them and convince myself I feel that way.
It’s 10.07am here now and usually I would have logged on to my email and IM waiting for him to pop up to say Hi but today I don’t feel like doing that. I want to leave it switched off for a day and go and get my eyebrows sorted out and book to have my hair coloured. I want to cuddle my son and walk my dogs. I feel like I just got the kick up the backside I have needed and wanted for so long. I hope this feeling stays. I want to make the extra effort for me and my son and for you ladies who have helped me….but ironically not for any man….!!
Rori I am going to download your ebook today I want to get started straight away.
Thank you all xx
I
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 2:31am
176: Mercedes
says:
Subscribing…
Much Love,
Mercedes
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 3:52am
177: kay
says:
Hi Lucy, thanks for the sweet comment, to clarify I love taking pictures now, I once was camera shy but I found through trial and error and exploring different poses and outfits and hair styles I got it going on d:
My issue was more based around a certain type of man that want constant photos in this case provocative photos. I don’t mind posting pictures of myself on my blog because I enjoy it but when men ask for personal photos, especially a man that I barely know I feel a bit sleezy and I feel he’s being creepy in some way, it takes me back to my Myspace days when I used to have an account and men would beg for pictures.
Part of me felt flattered but another part of me just didn’t want to deal with it, the part of me that didn’t want to deal with it would have attempted to “Give” him something to satisfy the situation, I usually yield to masculine energy without really thinking about my own feelings, this time my whole body said “No” and instead of ignoring my feelings as I normally would have done and thinking about how me saying no would make him feel uncomfortable I chose to sink into my feelings and say it with little hesitation.
Just got a reply from him about my No…he says
I see your answer to pic’s was “NO”, man I tell you, 20 years later and you still have me begging:-)
So, Please?!
Now he’s begging…yeeesh
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 5:05am
178: Soignée
says:
Dear Wonder Woman,
I read your posts and I felt touched. It is just beautiful that you asked to be listened to. I do not know how to explain, but it opened my heart.
I have a very warm nice sensation, a warm feeling towards your story.
As you were very successful earlier, I am sure you have the best qualities to be successful with men.
It is like in dancing, example, as I was a young girl, I went to a dance group and I danced very well, but afterwards, I forgot about movements etc. I thought that I forgot, but my body did not forget!! So I discovered that I can move very well in my fitness center, it was a discovery.
So you think you are not success, but if you plan and organize how you want to be and do every baby step, you will have success!!!Maybe you think you can not do it, but you will see that you can, only start doing it.
I recommend you to change something in you, maybe start with the best hair cut of hair style you can afford . Take the very best hair stylist and do something just to see you in the better, stylish way,
Please re-consider your wardrobe, your cloths. Drop off the old staff and buy the new cloths, maybe not too many of them, but also for home, take more colours, more style, I am sure you will FEEL a different woman. The same with make up. If you do not use it, try, please show to the world more beauty of you. With these small steps you will FEEL different.
It always worked for me after some sad periods.I changed hair colour I felt so beautiful after it, i bought myself a nice red lipstick with a lot of shimmering gloss, I bought some colourful, but sophisticated cloths and I felt a different woman. The colours I add to my image and style make me feel a different woman.
If you are not used to it, please try, you will lke it, it is like a play.
If you always think you make a lot of mistakes with men, please give yourself, let’s say, 1 year to try your new approach. So you won’t feel a pressure to be settled . You will try during the whole year the circular dating and to notice in your beautiful colourful notebook the ideas, your mistakes and the new approach and the success you will have,you will control yourself and you will practice, so at the end of this period you will see a different woman, with feeling messages, an absolute leaning back woman.
You will be like Audrey Hepburn in “My fair lady”, the girl changed in the film, so also you can do it.
I also was a forward woman, I took much care of others, so it was a natural approach for me. But
someone told me, if I want to change some my mistakes, I had to do the following steps.
For example,
I do not like my behaviour, that I am the first who approach the men.I want to change this mistake.
So I have to put this mistake in the past:
“I used to be the first who contact the men, but now when I see the men, I only answer BACK!!!”
Please try to modify your mistakes putting them in the past form and in the 2 part of sentence, put what you want in the present. Sorry, English is not my language so I hope I explained so that you understood.So, you put
!) in the past what you want to change
2)in the second part of the phrase, what you want to be, in present:
Please let me know if it is clear.
Dear Wonder Woman, I am sure you will be your best self you can be. Maybe you can read the book “Elegance”where the girl changed, you will see there a lot of her doubts, and her changes.
I feel that someone told you that you are not capable of being a great woman, so you have this false belief with you. But you are a great woman, you had a real confirmations of your success in the past, and you can do it right now.
You will have the self-faith, your self-confidence, your best version of yourself.
I send you a great hug. I am with you, you Goddess!!!!!!!!!
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 5:32am
179: Lori
says:
Kay,
I feel like this may be more about the man trying to cross your boundary than you feeling uncomfortable with pictures. usually when your whole body is screaming “no”, it means you feel someone is encroaching on your boundaries. Stand your ground. NO means NO and he’s showing disrespect for you saying no to him. It feels icky and manipulative to me, and I have a circular dating guy I finally cut loose because of the boundary pushing issue. I believe it was Daria who described it as the kind of guy who says “just let me put the head in and THEN I’ll stop” when you tell them to stop in a sexual situation. (I LMAO every time I think of that post!)
Maybe a feeling message is in order here, Kay. “I don’t feel comfortable sending you more pics. I have plenty posted, so it’s obvious what I look like. It makes me feel disrespected when I say no and get asked again to do something I don’t feel comfortable with.”
Although I personally don’t feel this man even deserves and explanation. NO means NO. PERIOD.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 5:47am
180: kay
says:
Lori I knew this guy 19 years ago and I said no back then and I say no to him now so I giggled when he replied he still has to beg but really he never had to beg, he just had to take some time to know me which he failed to do back then and he has failed to do now. I replied back to his email, told him no begging, chill out and the answer is still no.
I concur that he has shown a lack of respect due to his own selfish desires but I’m not as bothered by it as I would have been say like a year ago, it’s because of men like him I have learned the importance of having boundaries in the first place, these kind of men have carried messages into my life and this particular guy was a reminder that I can take care of myself, I can stand up for myself and I can say NO.
I never second guessed my decision to say no to him, I feel empowered, confident and strong inside. I just love how I can take care of myself whereas before I would have felt weak inside, I would have said no but carried the burden of guilt and desperation over possibly hurting a man’s ego.
No feeling messages with this guy, no explanations, just “NO”, I stand firm with my “No” I used to explain how I feel, I used to say there are enough pictures on my blog to men that would ask for more but I am done explaining myself, I don’t desire his approval and validation and I just don’t feel good explaining something that’s so obvious
Thanks Lori for responding to my past and good for you for cutting loose a man that wouldn’t respect your boundaries, good for you for taking care of you first instead of him.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 6:28am
181: Lori
says:
I LOVE your strength and confidence Kay!
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 6:32am
182: Stacey
says:
Hi everyone…thanks for the responses!! Im sorry its taken so long for me to get back on here its been a crazy week.
Rori… the counselor we went to saw us together like twice and then me individually for like almost 9 months. When we where in the couple sessions he just agreed with my husband that I was needy, possessive, blowing things out of proportion (I didnt know that my having a problem with his being on dating sites, having other womens numbers in his phone and shutting himself in another room or outside to talk to them and then lieing to me about who he was talking to was blowing things out of proportion)…etc. He never once told my husband that this was WRONG!!! In my individual sessions I asked about this and he told me that it wouldnt matter because my husband wouldnt believe him anyway and I needed to “find myself” and plan my life without him. So much for helping us work out our differences! That is why I am no longer in counseling, I have already been divorced once and would like to fix this marriage not just abandon it.
Daria…I have tried the feeling messages like on Saturday he was totally ignoring me and just being an ass. So I told him that I was “feeling hurt and angry” and when he responded that “you need to go whine to your friends and leave me alone” I left for the day. He didnt even notice!!!!!! When I came home at 7pm all he wanted to know was when dinner was. And later that night he informed me that I shouldnt expect sex because he had already watched porn (sorry to be so blunt but I dont know how else to say it).
Im so frustrated!!!! Literaly I have went from being the “women he waited his whole life for and finally found” to the one that he cant stand, whines to much and is crazy. Im not sure if hes like this because he reconnected with a bunch of the people he used to know and now he thinks he settled or if Im doing something wrong or what. I just want the guy I married back!!!!!!
I know that I should get out and do things but 1. to me dating or hitting on other guys is wrong…im married, 2. I lost my job 9 months ago and we are barely staying afloat..there is no extra money for classes or going out, 3. I live in a really small town and its a 45 minute drive to get anywhere!!!
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 7:30am
183: tinque
says:
Wonder Woman – What a great name. You already said this, so you know. Just do it. Just keep doing it. You are aware now of your overfunctioning, your leaning forward tendencies.
You won’t be “perfect” right our of the gate whatever perfect is. You will stumble. You may even fall flat on your face sometimes. It’s all okay. You pick yourself back up, brush yourself off, and keep going.
A good man won’t reject you for “making mistakes”. Again whatever that is.
And another thing, there are clueless men all over the world, and there are also great men all over the world.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 7:50am
184: tinque
says:
No Bliss – I would feel very uncomfortable if my man had female friends outside of our relationships, especially if he insisted on not allowing you to meet them.
I think you reaction is justified. For me this would be a red flag, probably a deal breaker.
If he’s being this secretive about this, and it’s a biggie, what else is he keeping from you?
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 7:53am
185: tinque
says:
Lucy – Please, can you do something for me, for you? This is the second time I’ve seen you write that you are not very good looking. STOP this please.
Every woman on this planet is a unique sensual goddess beauty. It doesn’t matter your age, your shape, your size, the lay out of your features. It’s ALL about your juiciness which oozes from your heart, your entire being.
YOU are beautiful. Keep telling yourself you are BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 7:59am
186: Wonder Woman
says:
Soignee thank you so so much. I feel so honoured that you would take the time to write to me like that. I am not used to people offering me help without wanting in return….I feel like my heart will burst with happiness any minute.
)
My previous relationships have never been abusive as such. As I said I was a very tough cookie once but a part of that was that I had seen most of the women in my life in very traditional roles and many of them in bad relationships and I was out to avoid that at all costs (although my mum and dad have a pretty good marriage which makes me feel worse about my situation) so I didn’t let anybody get near unless it was on my terms. For the most part I have not been with bad men but they have been committment phobics and liars.
I don’t really find it difficult to attract men….people always think I am in my early to mid twenties when I go out. I don’t feel pretty or attractive anymore but I get told I am. I find compliments very hard to take. One of the main problems for me is that I find I am attracting men who pursue me with such force (I know this is a red flag now but it took a while to get that)…..my son’s dad asked me out every day for two and a half years…..I finally said yes…..I did fall pregnant very quickly but I didn’t expect what I got….he just left me and told me he didn’t want to be a dad so I was left to go through the pregnancy and raise my son on my own. My ex boyfriend (who was my first proper relationship) came back into my life when my son was three and we lived together for another three years but he wouldn’t plan for us to go further or have more children I felt frustrated and stifled (especially as his sister lived right next door and I wanted to move but he wouldn’t)!!!! I have to give him his credit though because even though my son isn’t his biologically he has remained in his life and picks him up every Friday to spend time with him. He is the only man I have ever trusted around my son and even though I had lived with him for three years prior to our first split it was still six months before I introduced him to my son and that was only because we were moving in together and I trusted he would never hurt my son in anyway. My biggest barrier to dating is that I don’t want my son to get hurt by anyone and I am finding I am struggling to get the energy to give men an opportunity to get near me……In the past year and a half I have found that men will pursue me for months at a time and I think well surely they can’t just be out for a bit of fun because this wouldn’t be worth their time only to find that’s exactly what they want. I am very strict about sleeping with men and getting tested and I make this clear but I have found men tell me that’s it ok but try to get around it when they meet me and it’s knocking my confidence. I know I am not helping myself because I get nervous about meeting guys and drag it out and I think I come off as a challenge, I think they think this girl is so hard to get to that they get fixated on trying to get me….when they realise I won’t give I find they back away really quickly and that’s when I get to chasing etc although I have been a lot better at just letting it go lately. I don’t feel used as I haven’t had any sexual contact with these men but I feel annoyed that I am coming off as a challenge. I don’t know how to change my stance without putting myself at risk of getting hurt. I see now that what makes it worse is that I am spending too much time communicating with these men and getting so wrapped up in the individual and that circular dating would have put a stop to that before it even started…..oh my goodness….it’s amazing what you see when you write it down.
Ironically my friends (male and female) describe me as fun loving and happy. I don’t know if I put a mask on. I do feel happy at times and I know I am blessed to have what I do have but deep inside I feel bad.
I love all your comments and words of advice. I have booked to have my hair done on Friday and I’m going to get a makeover tomorrow because I always use the same colours and I feel like a change.
I think giving myself a year sounds like a good amount of time and like you said it doesn’t feel pressurised. I am going to do all the writing exercises you suggested…..I feel excited about that.
I love that you mention Audrey Hepburn…..I love all her films and when I am on my own and have time I watch her films back to back……my favourite film in the world is Breakfast at Tiffanys. That is such a wonderful and great picture to have in my mind…..how she tranforms herself in My Fair Lady….ooh Sabrina just popped in my head as well….I always feel happy watching those movies….I will make a point to do that one night this week.
My heart felt thanks to you xx
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 8:02am
187: Wonder Woman
says:
Tinque thank you.
I love your quote “A good man won’t reject you for making mistakes”, that is exactly the sort of thing I say to my friends all the time…..I am patronising because I don’t practice what I preach….but hearing it from you makes it seem more applicable to me.
I chose Wonder Woman because that’s who I want to be….not just on the outside but on the inside….and I want to look hot in knee length boots and hot pants….lol
I note your comment to Lucy about saying she is not good looking and I am upset she feels that way about herself and I agree with what you said but I just wrote that about myself and now I feel annoyed that I feel so little for myself so I’m not going to say that again because it doesn’t sound good and the old me wouldn’t have stood for it. I am beautiful….i am beautiful…..
xx
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 8:19am
188: tinque
says:
Ahh, but Wonder Woman, you are already she. And you know most if not all women have difficulty believing in their beauty, even the ones you perceive as being stunning. It’s hard for us to recognize our innate gorgeousness. Largely because we’ve been taught to be “modest”. And even more largely because we’ve been bombarded from day one with false images of how we are supposed to look to be thought of as beautiful.
True beauty is our goddess essence no matter what the outer covering is like.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 8:28am
189: kay
says:
Stacey I feel so deeply for you, I can feel the urgency to fix things with your husband but the only way to fix things is to stop focusing all your energy on it, you don’t have to go out and literally date men but you still go out. Date yourself, go to the movies, go to the next town over if you can and go dancing, just let men make you feel desirable and awesome so you can handle living in a home with a man that is resistant to loving you.
I feel the counselor was inappropriate, not sure if anyone else feels that way but I think maybe the counselor was really just saying hey this man wants to be single and there isn’t anything you can do about it but get on with your life. The more you push for a resolution the worse things get so it’s best to protect yourself and find an out.
Money is short but I’m sure if you focus on moving on more than fixing the relationship you will most likely see another side of the man you love, he may even get his priorities straight but be that as it may whether he stay or go at least you know your moving forward with or without him.
You can’t make him love you and the more you sit in a toxic abusive relationship attempting to get into his heart the more he loses respect for you and the more the emotional verbal abuse escalates.
The best thing you can do is take good care of yourself no matter what’s going on and start to put the fantasy feelings of fixing it and getting the love you once had aside and start dealing with real feelings which are the fears that keep you holding on, maybe one of those fears is feeling like a failure for letting go, maybe it’s time you come to terms with any feelings that your silently holding onto.
Don’t give up on counselors, instead interview several counselors and inevitably you will find one that fits into your life and can help you maneuver through this tough time in your life.
I hope my words can give you the encouragement you need.
Love & Many blessings
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 8:29am
190: Goodheart
says:
I just want to say I am so much enjoying all the comments & questions from all the ladies on here. Just reading what everyone else is going through is helpful & shows I’m not alone.
I’m 45 & single. I don’t think I’ve ever willingly said that before! I “celebrated” my 45th birthday just before Valentines Day. I don’t recall ever having a romantic Valentines Day – ever. I was married in my early twenties & it was a nightmare of emotional & verbal abuse. I stayed very far away from relationships for nearly 6 years after my divorce. I looked at every man suspiciously & built a huge wall. My confidence left me. After keeping men at arms length for so long I don’t know if I really know how to get close again & when I finally feel something for someone, my insecurities pop up & I emit the neediness scent – the please-don’t-leave-me-or-hurt-me vibe. I was once a confident woman & I want her back so badly it almost makes me cry. I have so much inside me (love, tenderness, humor) that is just aching to be shared &, sadly, I feel I’m getting too old to be marketable anymore! lol, but it’s true. The man who dumped me last month commented that I was “too old to have children.” Talk about driving the knife in. Having children was always a dream, but never happened for me. Yet, that comment alone, gave me the inner strength to move away from that man & see him as not right for me.
I appreciate this forum & all the tips that you all are sharing. In my daydreams I see this beautiful, confident, laughing woman with a kind & giving man beside her, smiling in adoration and deep, true love. She is secure & happy. She is worthy.
She is me.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 8:39am
191: dorothea
says:
omgoodness i feel mad jealous. i made the mistake of looking around one of my guys’ facebook cuz i saw an old interest of his respond to his recent status update.
errRrRrRrrRRRrRRRrrRRR
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:00am
192: Lucy
says:
Kay, I laughed and thought it was cute when you said he begged. Lol. I have a couple guys like that, where I don’t get the creepy vibe — it just feels amusing. And kind of fun. Fun to say NO. There is a 25 year old guy who I keep refusing to date and I keep refusing to allow him to send ME pictures (he wants to prove he’s got what I want, lol!) I just keep saying
No
Nope
Never
lol
It is fun.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:25am
193: Wonder Woman
says:
Tinque you are so right. Some of the most sexy, appealing ladies I know are not what you would consider model like on paper but in the real world their skin glows and their eyes sparkle and they love themselves and are magnetic. It’s finding the strength to believe we are no different from those wonderful ladies.
xx
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:29am
194: Lucy
says:
Aw, Tinque, thanks for your concern. I did acknowledge my inner beauty in my comment there — I embrace and accept my inner beauty and I know that because of it I truly am beautiful. It just is simply true that I am not physically good-looking. I accept that reality, and I find that many men see me as beautiful because the inner beauty shines through. I just get nervous sometimes if I really like a particular guy — especially if he is super good-looking — because the truth is, men are programmed in our culture to look for physical beauty, and even the “good guys” can be caught in that trap. Sure, they can overcome it, but sometimes they just don’t. But I feel grateful for your concern.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:38am
195: Lucy
says:
Stacey, sometimes counselors do what he did with your husband because they are trying to develop rapport and trust with the person who they know is wrong and hardened so that down the road that person (in this case, your husband) will listen to and respect the “tough love” that the counselor will offer. Sort of trying to get “in” with your husband so that he can say the hard things later on. Frustrating and maddening to the spouse, I agree!!! And the counselors really can’t tell the spouse that’s what they are doing, because of the risk that the spouse will, in anger and frustration, blow it by telling the other spouse that that’s what’s going on. A catch 22, for sure.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:51am
196: Lucy
says:
Stacey, I also think Kay made many many good points in her comments.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 9:53am
197: Stacey
says:
Whatever the counselors, reasoning it backfired because after 2 sessions my husband quit going and refuses to go back because as he put it “There is nothing wrong with me and you are the problem…the counselor said so”
Kay I understand what your saying, but there is a part of me that just cant give up. I know that probably doesnt make sense and any other normal person probably would have left by now…but I cant.
When I married him it was forever, I was absolutley positive I wanted to be with him and as far as I knew he did too. Im very confused right now…trying to keep with the feeling messages and giving him space…I dont know what else to do.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:10am
198: Rori Raye
says:
Misconstrue, Welcome…and you know the answer here – you’re simply not listening to yourself. You said it all. Get outta there…there are so many men who would do anything to have you and treat you like a queen. Love, Rori
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:19am
199: Lucy
says:
Stacey, I understand your response to Kay’s suggestions. I felt exactly the same way you did about my marriage, and I kept trying to fix it. The more I focused on fixing it, the more he backed away. Kay’s suggestions are REALLY REALLY good, and if I had known that then, it might have saved my marriage. The idea is NOT that you are GIVING UP, but that you are shifting your focus. You can’t change him, but you can take better care of yourself and then, like Kay said, he MIGHT start taking better care of you too. If you focus on loving yourself, he is likely to be attracted to that and start loving you too. But you can’t do it with that expectation, because then you are still making it about HIM.
Last year I got ovarian cancer and was expected to die. A fantastic surgeon saved my life. It woke me up — I had been separated from my husband for eight years, still waiting for him to get his act together and love me again, and I was doing all the things you are doing, trying to make it work, fix it, etc. After the cancer (where I lost both ovaries and my uterus) I realized that I did not want to live the rest of my life like that. I was also scared that without the estrogen from my ovaries I would age quickly, and lose my libido, etc. — so I decided I was going to take really good care of ME for once in my life. I researched and picked my doctor’s brain about the best ways to keep up my health, vitality, sexuality. I can’t take estrogen because it would drive the cancer back, so I am on tons of vitamins and specific foods and use lotions, etc. and am SO happy to say that everything is top notch sexually and men are shocked to learn that I am 47 — they think I am in my thirties! My kids tell me I look younger than I did before. No wonder — I was so stressed before about my marriage! And I started doing all the things Kay is telling you to do. Well, a couple months ago, my ex started telling me that I seem magnetized, asked, “did you put a spell on me?” Now he says he is in love with me and wants to be my soul mate. He also saw a really cute pic of me on facebook that he really liked. I told him I’m not sure how I feel about that, not sure if I can trust him. And, in my case, it has been SO many years since he moved out, that it was really like the marriage was completely gone and in the past. (I had just gotten a job with insurance so that I could start divorce proceedings right before I got the cancer — the cancer made me lose my job, so we stay married legally just so his insurance would cover me.) Anyway, it seems it may be too late for him, and he is devastated. Part of me feels a little guilty, but the truth is, I gave him WAY more chances than he deserved. And, if he wants me bad enough now, he can pursue me like any other guy has to.
Bottom line, though, is I can’t trust him to be faithful.
All that is to say, I think Kay’s advice is good and could possibly save your marriage.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:33am
200: kay
says:
Stacey I can’t imagine the emotional pain your in but how effective is it for you to hold onto your idea of forever with a man that doesn’t carry that same forever sentiment?
You can’t have him if your holding onto him, letting go is not giving up, it’s actually a better way of you taking control of your life, letting go is allowing yourself to focus on the things you can control which is yourself.
He’s broken the terms and conditions of forever so I’m not sure why you feel more obligated to forever when it’s clear he no longer feels obligated to you or to the marriage.
I know this all seems really hard, but at some point your going to have to come to terms with the reality that he is gone and begin to let the part of you that is screaming for you to take care of yourself and protect yourself and your family “IN” and let it guide you to better options.
I wish you all the luck. Right now you haven’t reached your breaking point but I hope as you continue to seek out your own answers and get the help you need that you break this toxic cycle and begin to smile, be happy and live again.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:40am
201: tinque
says:
Lucy – “It just is simply true that I am not physically good-looking.”
Yes you did acknowledge your inner beauty, but I don’t feel it from you as much as would serve you more, and just by writing the above, you are reinforcing this belief you have about yourself.
Beauty, physical beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
Consider for example what a Pacific Islander man would consider beautiful, a large, fleshily generous woman with full features.
In the US or Europe this would not be considered so.
Mostly what is considered beautiful in this country or any other Western culture country is fed to us by the media.
You did say it that you do know women who are not considered by the media to fit their ideal, yet men flock to them. Someone earlier, I apologize I can’t remember who it was, said her friend is much heavier than she, not the media’s idea of a beauty, yet men are all over her, and the writer of the comment, a former swimsuit model, does not receive the same attention.
Have you ever seen a photo of Mama Gena? She is not what would be considered a classic beauty though she puts herself together beautifully. But the radiance in her smile is gorgeous. She exudes gorgeous goddess.
My point is is that saying these things about yourself here, in your head, anywhere, keeps you from moving forward if only a little.
So I would love for you to discard these words from your vocabulary. Look in the mirror and see beauty, voice beauty, and then lean forward and really give yourself a BIG smooch on the lips. MWUH.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:46am
202: kay
says:
LOL yep Lucy he begged and he asked me again and mentioned how he’s still begging via IM, I didn’t respond to that because I didn’t feel like it, wasn’t attracted to him asking me again for a 3rd time after I said no twice already.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:46am
203: kay
says:
Goodheart I just saw a documentary were a woman had a baby at the age of 55 and she wasn’t trying, didn’t know she was pregnant until it was time to conceive and she had a beautiful healthy baby boy so I wouldn’t constitute 45 years of age as too old to conceive. You can find the confident you, keep asking her to help you as you go about your day, investigate how you lost her, dissect it all and you will soon have some A-HA moments, she wants to be found just as bad as you want to find her.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:54am
204: tinque
says:
Lucy – Wow, I just read your story. You are an enormously brave woman. I read much of myself in you, huge physical/medical challenges and more.
Coming back from the brink is tough and can be life changing.
This is maybe why I don’t want you to tell yourself lies no matter what you think the mirror says. Mirrors lie to by the way.
You probably already know this, DHEA is great but may be too stimulating, MACA is awesome. But you seem to have this handled.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:57am
205: Lucy
says:
Tinque, I feel surprised and amused — we are saying the same thing, about beauty being defined culturally and by the media, etc. and also about inner beauty being where it’s at. I am saying the same thing you are.
I feel curious about it bothering you that someone would acknowledge their lack of outward, physical beauty (in the way it is defined by their culture). We women have no trouble saying that a particular man is good-looking or not good-looking — it’s all over this forum!
And we also acknowledge that sometimes the not-good-looking men are gorgeous to us because of their character and love for us (“inner beauty”), but we still admit the truth about their outside appearance. That’s all this is — telling the truth, accepting what is. For most of my life I did NOT accept it, and it really got me down and made me feel bad about myself — even though, all the time, I was getting the guys all the other girls wanted. I don’t really know what it is guys see in me, and it always baffles other girls and also my parents and siblings, because it is obvious to all of them that I am not getting them with my physical appearance. 
I have had girls say to me “How did YOU get him???” I have also had guys say, when I am breaking up with them, “My sister says you’re not that good-looking anyway.” But I am finally at the point where I am feeling, “It’s OKAY that I am not good-looking! I have other qualities that make me beautiful.”
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:07am
206: Lucy
says:
Tinque, thanks for your comments about my “story.”
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:08am
207: Goodheart
says:
Kay, thank you for your comment. I do feel the confident woman in me & try to listen to her. She actually is out most of the time. I sing while I’m cooking, dance while I’m cleaning, smile when I hug my big, lazy 95 pound dog
Every once in awhile though, I think that I’ve missed the boat on my dreams. I try to push that feeling away & replace it with positive thoughts, but many mornings I wake up feeling hopeless & lonely and I know this puts off a negative vibe. We are what we feel, right? I am trying the circular dating, but LOL, I can’t seem to get more than one man at a time (not very circular) – the response online is mediocre, which takes me back to thinking about my age & how every man online is looking for the young chickies. Even the men who are older than I am put down the age bracket for their dates as younger than me! It’s challenging, even though I look & feel younger than I am, online it’s all about the numbers. Wish I could meet men somewhere else, but I don’t go to bars. All my friends are married. Yikes, reading this I sound like a downer, which I’m normally not! I must feel safe here.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:20am
208: tinque
says:
Lucy – Yes the emphasis on someone’s appearance really bothers me. It feels so empty to me, so superficial. I don’t like it when applied to men either.
To hear that someone would be surprised that you got the guy because you didn’t fit an image makes me feel sick inside.
I hear that you feel beautiful regardless, and this is awesome. I’m delighted you have done this for you.
I suppose I’m trying to change the world in this regard in my own little way.
As well as awaken and expand women in their sexuality. But that’s a whole other story which many here know all about.
So I don’t want to sound like I was picking on you. It stood out for me, and I wanted to be sure you were not feeling less than in any way.
It doesn’t seem that you do.
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:32am
209: Daria
says:
It wasn’t me who wrote about “just let me put the head in, ” it was Simply Shannon, BUT i must say i’ve heard that more than once! lol
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:32am
210: Daria
says:
I love my beautiful caterpillar arm scar, and the long thin knife scar on the other side
THEY ARE sooo gorgeous to me and I am thankful for this gift on my body.
I would NOT do anything to change it! I Feel Blessed by them
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 11:41am
211: Lucy
says:
Tinque, that’s the whole point — When we make a big deal about physical beauty — including trying to convince someone that they are good-looking when they are not — we are putting all the emphasis in the wrong place. Instead, I would feel good about “Who Cares if I am not good-looking” BECAUSE of the fact that emphasizing physical beauty is empty and superficial. THAT is the change I would like to see in the world.
I love Martina McBride’s song, “This One’s for the Girls” — it totally celebrates the beauty that is there no matter what you look like on the outside.
I feel bad that people’s surprise makes you feel sick inside. It makes ME feel bewondered and magical and special when that happens — because I realize that apparenty I have some mysterious quality that outranks physical beauty. That always makes me feel so good and amazed and amused.
I did not feel like you were picking on me.
My growth edge, however, is that concern that I mentioned before — that fear that one of these days, a good-looking guy that I really like (okay, I’ll fess up, I am talking about my imaginary guy — TN man– teehee, don’t throw tomatoes at me!!) that he wil be disappointed that I don’t look as good in person as my pictures look. That he will be one of those guys that is conditioned strongly by our culture to turn away from women who are not good-looking. I’m not sure why I feel that fear, since that has never happened with anybody before. Maybe it’s because he is extremely cute and smart and charming and the acquaintance of mine who knows him says that gorgeous girls flock to him and he could have any girl he wants. Maybe it is because I have never before been in a long-distance situation — I have always met the guys pretty quickly and found out that they fell in love with me despite my lack of outward beauty. Maybe it’s just the unknown. What do you think?
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 12:11pm
212: Lucy
says:
Daria, I love my crooked, off-center scar that starts at my belly-button and goes down about eight inches, where my beautiful goddess cancer doctor cut me open to save my life. My ex told me my scar is sexy.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 12:19pm
213: Daria
says:
Lucy it is sexy!
I feel sad hearing that physical beauty is not important.
it feels incongruent with loving my scar. my scar is phyisical. it is beautiful. i love it. it is important.
all one.
flesh flesh flesh. i lvoe my flesh.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 12:38pm
214: Daria
says:
Goodheart -
We are NOT what we feel. We are Goddesses, and our feelings are like weather.
And the fear feelings you have are not REAL. They are triggers calling for healing.
I can say that I am 27 and I also have the feelings of “I missed the boat in my life, I’m so far behind, etc” and I want to heal them.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 12:53pm
215: Terry
says:
Wow, there are so many posts since I was on here Friday. I have lots of catching up to do! Robin and Orna, thanks for your sweet and comforting words. I got a pizza Friday, went home, watched movies, and cuddled with my cat. It actually felt comfy. I woke up Saturday with swollen eyes and nose, though. Ha! Crying helped me purge some feelings.
My friends insisted on changing our girl’s night out to Saturday, because they really wanted me to go. There were 4 of us and we went to a movie and out to eat. They all know “W” (the guy I wrote about on Friday.) A couple of my friends were talking about him. They couldn’t understand what had happened. They told me “W” had loved me from afar for a long time. I felt surprised to hear that. I didn’t know that.
One friend, Kate, who rarely gives her opinion, casually said, “Terry, you both wanted to be the jewel. There can only be one. He was waiting for you to chase him.” It suddenly made sense to me. “W” is a handsome, successful entrepreneur, who has always been spoiled by many women. He has never had to work for any woman. They come to him, they spoil him, they take care of him. He isn’t accustomed to stepping up to the plate and pursuing.
Kate said apparently this other woman gave him an ultimatum…or at least that’s what she heard. My other two friends said that we were perfect for each other and that I need to contact him get him back. I told them no. I would feel turned off and would eventually feel resentful.
I spent Sunday tweaking my online profile. I gave just enough info, but not too much. I used feeling messages in it, and stated what I wanted and didn’t want. I feel a bit scared starting this online process again, but today I had several emails and tons of winks.
A couple years ago I paid attention to winks. Not anymore. That feels lazy to me. I’m only checking out the men who take the time to email me. Having that boundary for myself feels much lighter.
My next appointment is here, so I’ll check back later.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 1:37pm
216: tinque
says:
Lucy – “I feel bad that people’s surprise makes you feel sick inside. It makes ME feel bewondered and magical and special when that happens — because I realize that apparently I have some mysterious quality that outranks physical beauty.”
This is amazing and beautiful. And I have to just LOVE the word bewondered. Oh that makes me so happy. (I make up words all the time.)
Thank you for the reminder of what I tell the women I coach all the time, try looking at things another way.
Instead of thinking that people were bemused that you got the guy because you did not fit an image, celebrate that you have a magical mysterious something that men cannot resist.
My hat’s off to you…
xxoo
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 2:26pm
217: TW
says:
Hello ladies-
it has been a long time since I have been able to post. Anyway, I met this guy about 4 months and it was like a dream. We wanted all the same things, we discussed marriage, We were not seeing other people, he was calling multiple times daily and was with me all the time. Anyway, he grew distant. He had a death in the family and then some other stuff that he did not want to tell me happened and he drifted away. I tried to contact him to see if he was okay and he did not respond to my text nor my calls so I stopped calling. Well I started seeing someone else as a Circular date, I like hanging out with this other guy but do not want to date him seriously though. He takes my mind off things. Anyway, the guy that I was seeing called me on Valentine’s day after I had not heard from him in a month and a half and had not seen him in two months and he was talking to me as though nothing happened and everything was fine. I was really caught off guard and shocked that he even called because at this point I was trying to put him out of my mind. I really like this guy and feel that he is worth my time but how do I know what he is thinking without asking. When we were on the phone we were acting as though there was an elephant in the room that no one wanted to acknowledge. I want to see him so we can talk but when he was talking to me he was baby this and baby that and mentally I was like huh… How could he talk to me like everything was cool? Maybe he was trying to get a feel for how I would react or maybe he wanted me to address the situation but I did not feel as though it was my issue to bring up. What do I do? He says that he is not seeing anyone else and i would like to see if we can mend things.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 2:49pm
218: Margaret
says:
Hey TW,
Missed u from here….how about something like “I don’t want things to feel weird between us….When u stopped communicating with me it felt (insert deepest feeling) and now I feel confused …. and see what he says…
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 4:05pm
219: TW
says:
Margaret…
I do not want to text him any more today. I asked him earlier was he seeing someone else and he said no but what is really going on… We did not officially break up but if someone does not talk to nor see you for two months then you can assume that you are not together anymore and I started dating another guy but that phone call out of the blue on a special day like that threw me off and he said what are you doing home like he wanted me to ask him how he knew I was home. He called me on my cell. I am not sure what to do and I just do not feel as though it is my responsibility to mend this. I did not leave.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 4:32pm
220: Lucy
says:
Thanks, Tinque! I feel happy that we had that little conversation.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 5:12pm
221: No Bliss
says:
So much happens on here, very hard to keep up and I apologise if I do not comment often. I never have the right words.
Monday, 22 February 2010 @ 10:23pm
222: T.R.
says:
Stacey,
I am just now able to get through all of the posts here, and I want to tell you how sorry I am for your pain. More importantly though, I want to tell you how GREAT you are.
I feel bad that the counselor you went to see responded the way he did. I work in the same field, and although I am not (yet) a counselor, I can tell you that his response was not only non-professional, but also unethical. Counselors are like shoes (as is dating). You have to try on a few to see what feels good to you. I hope that if you feel the need/desire to see a counselor still, that this particular one did not stear you away with his poor practices……
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 12:59am
223: Wonder Woman
says:
Hi everyone
I have a question. This may seem like a really silly question but I was wondering how other women react when men pay for things. The reason I am asking is that even in my diva days I always paid my way. I have always held the opinion that paying my way showed I was independent and equal and I suppose for many years I got away with it because I was more confident but to be honest I would really like to be treated like a princess and I can see how what I am doing is effecting my relationships and coming across very masculine.
My problem is I honestly don’t know how to react if the guy pays. I went on a date a few months ago for a meal and the guy offered to pay and I was like “are you sure” and he didn’t seem offended….more bewildered but I feel as though him paying puts me in his debt or something and it makes me feel uncomfortable. When my ex boyfriend bought me an expensive jumper once I felt terrible and ran out and bought him one to equalise the situation. Other than Christmas when presents are expected and I give back anyway I can’t describe how strange receiving like this feels to me.
Obviously I am meeting with a man on Saturday but lets say he buys me something to eat or drink I am not thinking to offer to pay but how do I respond?? I am worried I am either going to be overly grateful….like “thanks a lot” or pushing to make sure I cannot repay the favour like “thanks, I’ll get the next one”!!!!…..that feels so natural to me….accepting does not and I feel like I am going to overdo the reaction one way or the other. How do I be authentic in my response if it feels totally false to me?? How do others deal with this?? xx
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 1:59am
224: Daria
says:
Wonder Woman – we all practice receiving more and more. As you practice you will start to feel more natural with it.
Say Thank you and smile at him. Feel yoru feelings — uncomfortable, wonderful, scared, wanting to lean forward – do NOT lean forward.
Thats it!
Just Be – Nike the Goddess of Justice
You are receiving worship! Receive it! Thank your worshipper. He deserves the blessing of being allowed to worship you… (rather than being pushed away – like his offering doesn;t measure up, is not received,etc).
It will feel easier as you babystep… FEEL your feelings (that’s your part).
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 2:07am
225: Daria
says:
wow I feel so judgemental of my answers to others.
I am putting the hammer down!
I feel shaky afraid, defensive, icky, shame sinking in my stomach, energy rising stinging my eyes… thoughts of being called bossy when i moved here in 3rd grade… I LOVE MY FEELINGS! THANK YOU!!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 2:09am
226: Wonder Woman
says:
Daria thank you
Feel yoru feelings — uncomfortable, wonderful, scared, wanting to lean forward – do NOT lean forward.
Wow, I am totally relating to this….
I love how you conjure up the image of him being the worshipper and having the honour to worship, the fact he would feel pushed away like the offering is not good enough…….when I can visualise something it makes it much easier for me to deal with.
I am going to visualise myself just smiling and saying thank you…..and him feeling good that I like the offering.
xx
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 2:26am
227: Lori
says:
Wonder Woman,
You can show your independence in other ways. Like your busy, exciting life and not chasing him. Remember, strong on the inside, soft on the outside. I not only let the men pay for everything now, I also let them choose everything about the date. I used to feel the need to make the plans because I was afraid they would choose something I didn’t like. Even to the point of making the restaurant reservations or buying the concert or movie tickets. (over functioning) Now I’m basically completely dropping the oars and letting them be the men and show me what they would do, where they would take me etc. I like to see the choices they make on their own and how much they want to impress me. It also shows if we have things in common and how well they have read me. The funny thing is, the men I’ve been out with recently have chosen much nicer restaurants, things to do etc than I would have suggested in the past for fear of things being too expensive.
A few weeks ago, I was on a date and we ran into some friends of mine and they mentioned how much they liked champagne, which I do as well. My date excused himself to go to the bathroom and when he came back the waitress brought over a $200 bottle of champagne! (and this was after he had already taken me to one of the nicest restaurants in town!) In the past it would have made me feel uncomfortable and indebted to him, but when I saw his face I could tell that he was truly pleased at making all of us happy! And this is a wildly attractive, smart, successful man and I’m NOT having sex with him! (though I want to LOL)
It’s hard at first and there were times I even felt like a fake. But it gets more natural over time and I can’t even tell you how much more happy and relaxed I feel dating like this than the old way!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 5:17am
228: Lori
says:
And the men seem more relaxed and happy this way too!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 5:19am
229: Lori
says:
Daria,
You are such a Goddess!
I use the “put the hammer down” image too when I address a man who is disrespecting my boundaries lol
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 5:20am
230: Soignée
says:
Dear Wonder Woman,
thank you very much for your answer, I am very excited about your news.
Dear Goddess, as for your men.
You know that the men when they find you attractive, they want sex. But as I understood, the main problem is that your men they accept the “play” of getting you as you are hard-to-get. But they are not involved emotionally. You want them to be in love and to take a complete care of you. Please sorry if my perception of the problem is not the same as yours. I can only imagine, but maybe my insight can clear something.
The main thing: the good man who will love you, will love your child. So I wish you to have a GOOD man who has the TRUE LOVE for you!!! It is possible!
I will send you the translation of the text I sent already and Rori liked it, I re-send it, but this time for you.
I like many women but I can not be only with one.
Her answer was her smile.
He said: “I am a solitary man, I am free and I don’t have to give anything to anyone.”
She felt upset.
He said: “I like women who understand me and appreciate my freedom”.
She started to smile and smoke.
He said: “Let’s have fun, I like you.”
She left the cigarette and looked into his eyes.
He realized she accepted.
He asked her”Did you have probably many men?”
She hugged him and touched him strongly.
He asked:”Are you fine with me?”
She closed her eyes and kissed him.
Going away on the next morning, he said: “Everything was wonderful, let’s keep it secret.”
She stretched her hand and removed some invisible staff from his shoulder.
He said: “I will call you some day.”
She agreed and closed the door.
He called in the evening of the same day.
She was not at home.
He reached her only very late at night on her mobile phone.
She permitted him to come only after the whole week.
He asked her: “Did you have fun without me?”
She smiled and offered him some coffee.
He called her nearly every day.
She did not answer sometimes.
He came to her only when she allowed him.
She did not explain why her invitations were so rare.
He understood he wanted to be only with her.
He got nervous when she did not answer his calls.
He flipped out when he knew she was seen with some other man.
He wanted that everybody knew about their relationship.
She was against it.
He wanted her to be only his woman.
He came to visit her with many many red roses.
She accepted the flowers but asked him not to come to her without her invitation.
He wanted to ask her to be his wife.
She said: “I am a single.”
He started to smoke, his hands trembled.
She said: “I am free.”
He got cold.
She said: “I do not owe anything to anyone.”
He had the sensation like his heart stopped.
She said: “I do not want to change anything.”
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 8:53am
231: Soignée
says:
Dear Wonder Woman,
I was writing you the previous post and one of my insights why the men do not get involved is I wanted to ask you about the payment, who pays in your relationships.
I supposed, truely, that it could be a problem.
This is one of the main problems with men. If you want to understand them: they love the woman they can provide for!! Please do not listen to someone else. It was the discovery for me.
How we can explain that the men when they have hobbies, they spend so much money: on cars, on sports? But for their lady?
The more they pay for you, the more expensive but not in the way “object”, they will invest into you, but in their language” they want to provide. If they do not provide for the woman, they do not feel the woman like “their women”, like “my woman”.
I do never pay for out-going. If the man is with me, he has to pay. I am not less than his cars, his hobbies etc. He has to provide for me. He has to care for me. But if he has no money, he does not go out with me, he does not invite me. Maybe I will receive a lot of complaints about this conceipt. But I was married to a guy who was not the unique provider and he told me he felt less man!! After our divorce I discovered that he was able to provide for his new lady.
The paying for out going is to them!!
It is completely ok when they pay, because they will consider you more §”my” lady, not just a friend.
It works in this way, but the total true I discovered.
You can be a totally indipendent woman, but the man wants to feel a man and to provide; providing is a totally leaning forward attitute and very masculine.
I believe that when your men start to pay,you will really see the difference in the attitude!!(Book of Steven Harvey”Act like a lady think like a man” is a help of explain, please have the look in it, he as a man will explain the issue in his -man- eyes, it will definitely help).
And another thing: the feeling messages. For example Daria is really good at them, she is just wonderful to explain in feeling messages. So these feeling messages they will definitely raise your feminine energy.
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 9:18am
232: No Bliss
says:
Ohh to have a man want to take you out, I have been reading and trying to keep up to date with all the posts. But what i am doing is evaluating my life, and realising that my messed up relationship of 17years has been bad/toxic from the very beginning.
I have never been taken to a restaurant for a date or even romantic bday celebration.
I have never been on a holiday with him.
I have never received a really personal gift from him. ( household items are good but you do like to get something intimate every now and then.
If i want to go out with him, i have to plan it and see if he’s free, and wants to do that.
I do not know what its like to sit around at a friends place having dinner with my partner beside me drinking wine and laughing, he sits on the other side of the table and does not talk to me. This happens at any party we have ever been to as well.. When i ask why , he says he’s not there to spend time with me but to socialise with others.
I am sitting here writing this and thinking, is this a normal relationship and I am expecting way too much from him. I really do not know anymore. What is right and wrong – i am sure its all personal.
He does tell me to go find a new guy, and i will come crawling back to him cause he is the best.
I found a receipt once, he had purchased a necklace for a lady as a ( supposed ) thankyou gift. That was heart breaking, he has never even given me a $2.00 necklace.
I am going on here, but I am just going around in cirlces. Its the story of my life.
I was told last night, that i am a very horrible person to come home to,
I never smile , I have one of those faces that looks shitty all the time.. so people won’t want to be my friend or even approach me. I give off this presence off , ‘back off, I bite’ .
That made me feel sad and I said that , i was told to suck in up, and get the shit off my liver and maybe people would like to be around me.
I have raved on , needed to vent..
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 2:15pm
233: Robin
says:
No Bliss,
There’s nothing else to say about this situation except GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!
This is is Toxic with a capital ‘T’ Pleas, Please get out and start circular dating.
Take absolutely exquisite care of yourself and write him off-he has no business talking to a goddess that way. He’s a joke. A sorry excuse for a man. And one that is merely here to give you a message about what you’re willing to tolerate.
Please, please cut him loose. No woman should have to listen to these kinds of comments from a guy. He’s disqualified.
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 2:52pm
234: Daria
says:
Lori how do you use the “put the hammer down” tool?
I feel confused if we;re using teh same way.
what i meant is, I was using this hammer to beat beat myself up, and intead I’m putting it down and to the side, nicely – and feeling my feelings…
is that what you meant?
or did you mean you hammer the men disrespecting your boundaries? If so, good for you for caring about your boundaries, and at the same time, I think Rori suggests not attacking or hammering them but expressing feelings … boy i “tweak” this when I feel angry
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 3:03pm
235: Lori
says:
Daria,
I don’t actually attack them. I just imagine myself as one of those video game goddess warriors attacking them for their bad behavior. I let the visual get all of my anger out and make me feel strong and then I soften up again and use feeling messages to tell them how I feel and stick with my boundaries!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 3:49pm
236: Daria
says:
Lori – wow I remember you mentioning this! What a cool way to use anger!
HAAAAA!
KIAH!!!
I like this visual!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 4:06pm
237: Daria
says:
A tool I’ve been using with men is imagining they are the Divine Masculine (especially when it doesnt seem like it – hehe) and that the Divine Masculine will ALWAYS be compassionate and accepting of my feelings. That helps me open up sometimes when I feel scared to share my feelings.
Ie – theyre not, Judgemental James, but the Divine Masculine. And he will “feel me” when I say I feel angry
I intend to also use your Kiah Video Game Warrioress tool now, to release some of my I wana bash him!
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 4:09pm
238: Christina
says:
Hi
Does your dvds have subtitles? Or do you have scripts to anything? I recall seeing somewhere you have a e-book. Where shall I find the information. I am deaf and would love to try your program to help me out. I just cant seem to find something that I can use. I cant use the dvds or cds if I cant hear it.
thank you
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 4:52pm
239: No Bliss
says:
Rori,
Are the tools you teach us to use with men. Can we start to use these on young men, eg: our kids, so mybe they will nice to me..
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 9:37pm
240: No Bliss
says:
I lean forward way too much for anyone.
I need to stop doing that, cause it causes me too much grief watching men run all the time.
It is so hard to lean back .
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 @ 10:08pm
241: Wonder Woman
says:
Lori thank you.
Your date sounded wonderful and the way you handle it seems so elegent and lovely and deserved.
I am so thankful to be able to read about the experiences of other people on this site and their positive results…..it’s just so inspiring. xx
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 1:24am
242: Wonder Woman
says:
Soignee thank you once again
I loved your text. When I finished reading it I had such a smile on my face. I am going to print it out and put it on my wall and read it everyday for inspiration.
Your words about the men paying make so much sense. When you said they spend money on their hobbies that hit such a cord with me….I realise now that what I am doing is giving them a reason to invest in other things that then take away from the relationship and become the most important valuable thing to them….after all it’s something they have to invest in and I am not making myself valuable enough.
I feel inspired to change that. Thanks also for your recommendations for the books to read. I will be sure to take a look. xx
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 1:43am
243: Soignée
says:
Dear Wonder Woman,
for every single baby step you will make and which will be a success, I will be the first person to be happy for you!!! I am sure you will be the best version of yourself, the goddess you naturally are!!!
Only you forgot about it, someone made you forget it. But you have always been the goddess and you are and you will always be her!!!
I got the reconfirmation from Steve Harvey about the dynamics of paying about the men, I was really impressed. Earlier I knew about it from my life and from the women around me, but I did not try to do it.
The more the men invest in you, the better result and attention you will have!!! The 2 books made a lot of new insights for me. So I want to be always a requiring goddess, I won’t accept the treatment like towards a “doormat” like I was treated in my previous-pre-goddess life. Never again. I do learn to ask I ask and I ask. If the man values me less than his hobbies, it is up to him, but i won’t be cheaper than a lot of women who are provided by men.
Expressing the feelings helps always to be understood. I learn a lot of it. In my posts for you I use not many feeling messages, but you will see how they work for you.
I myself have a beautiful book I am writing my insights, my changes and goddess ideas. It helps so much.
Dear Wonder Woman, I send you a great hug. I am sure very soon I will be impressed by your new results.
It is my heart wish that you are the best version of youself!!!!!!! And you are loved !!! By yourself and by others and that you have the very best relationship you can imagine!!!
Better that you can imagine!!!
I send you a huge hug!!! Dear Goddess you will do it!!!
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 8:22am
244: Stacey
says:
Hi all! Thanks for all the wonderful advice, I really do appreciate it. I’m really having a problem with the whole “leaning back” idea. I just cant seem to do it, any suggestions???
Thanks!!! Hugs to all!!
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 11:08am
245: No Bliss
says:
Stacey, I am with you on leaning back, its very hard. I just can not seem to get the hang of it at all.
I too appreciate everyone’s help and would love lots of suggestions.
thanks for all reading and listening. : – ) !
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 1:42pm
246: Daria
says:
Stacey and No Bliss! Boy it is hard.
I remember when I first started. I felt like I had swallowed a basketball size ball of tin wool that was electrically charged in my tummy… while I anxiously worried about what hes thinking, will he reject me now, and etc. For HOURS!!!
now that that very inspiring im sure feeling is out the way (jk) I feel so glad I did it! I now feel delight.
My suggestion is to lean back in One way. (even small) Then, come BRAG and tell us about how you leaned back. You will feel proud of yourself somewhere deep inside that you did something you intended to do. What he does after is not important, what’s important is that you leaned back.
PS – you might intend to do it, but miss the moment… don’t beat urself up… notice it was an opportunity, then next opportunity get ready to do it agian… ohhh you missed it… ok next opportunity… then you will at some point do it.
Just one! Tell us.
This is a babystep. This is how it’s done.
Example: i wanted to call, but I didn’t,
instead I went and did a jigga bugga handstand, slapped some pillows, watched the Bachelor, went out running, cried in the bathroom (yes crying is ALWAYS GOOD. try to cry out and release release when it comes up).
I felt : horrible, anxious, a lil proud, amazed, terrified, etc…
Or. The dishes needed to be washed but I didn’t do them becasue I didnt want to, he came and yelled at me, I said I don’t feel like doing the dishes, he insulted me, I felt crushed and awful, I cried. (this is ok too. You stood your ground).
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 2:13pm
247: Daria
says:
OR ! This is how I started.
He called me a bitch on the phone and I just Hung up.
I felt afraid, anxious, obsessive about him, intensely disturbed, terrified, happy, revengeful, gleeful
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 2:15pm
248: Lori
says:
Stacey and No Bliss,
It IS hard at first-probably the hardest work I’ve ever done on myself. But it does get easier with time and practice. Just remember, BABYSTEPS!
I started with defining a boundary for myself. My first one was no confirming plans via text-phone calls only. It was a small one and the first time I went ahead and made other plans when the guy didn’t confirm by phone I felt sooooo nervous. And when he got totally furious with me for doing that I felt even more nervous cuz I hate confrontation. But when I instantly saw a turnaround in his behavior and an increase in his respect level for me I felt so much more empowered it was worth the momentary discomfort. Once I got comfortable that I could be firm with that boundary, I set the next one and so on. I now have several I feel comfortable with: I don’t call guys, I don’t drive to guys, I don’t make the plans, I don’t pay for dates, first dates are coffee or happy hour short one or 2 hour dates, no sex, no exclusivity, I don’t break plans for a guy, I don’t accept dates with less than 2 days notice, first dates I will only meet them-after that they pick me up, I accept any and all gifts or favors from men, etc. I did each one of these one by one.
For me the hardest was accepting gifts because I felt indebted and undeserving in the past and was used to being the giver and not the receiver. In the last 4 months I have received 2 gift certificates for spa treatments, one gift card for an expensive restaurant (to go with one of my friends and NOT the man!) a cell phone, a GPS, a bluetooth, a t-shirt, a sleeping bag, money to treat myself to whatever I wanted, a scarf and numerous cards from different men. And that’s not including Christmas or birthday gifts! That’s probably more than I’ve received my entire life prior to working Rori’s programs. And I haven’t had sex with ANY of the men or asked for anything! All were thoughtful gifts that the men thought I needed or could use or would make me feel good or special. It was sooooo hard to graciously accept things when my insides were screaming that I didn’t deserve them cuz I wasn’t sleeping with him or that he would expect me to sleep with him if I accepted. But the surprising thing is, the men look so pleased and proud when they give you something and you accept it graciously and appreciatively. It’s really quite amazing.
Another thing I had trouble with was not randomly texting or calling a man first when I saw or heard something that reminded me of him or that I thought he’d like. I had to stop myself from doing that many many times. One thing that helps me is I have a male friend who is engaged and there is not nor ever has been anything between us. I’m also friends with his fiancee, and she has no issues with our friendship. If I feel like randomly texting a man, I text him instead. That way I get all of my leaning forward impulses out with him and the urge usually passes to text the other guys after texting him a few times. I also do it with my girlfriends, but I find it seems to help more to text a male friend when I get the urge to text a man than a female friend. I only respond to texts or calls, never initiate.
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 5:44pm
249: No Bliss
says:
Daria, Lori, wow thanks.
thats so helpful. its going to be hard. I appreciate your help.
Tell me, how you get around the disappointment, if my partner is always telling me he’s going out, before i get to say anything the disappointment is on my face, before i get to say Have fun or enjoy.. what would be better to say , even i am thinking you never go out with me, how do i stop the arguments over him always going out me showing my annoyance.
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 6:55pm
250: Daria
says:
No Bliss –
whoa I feel triggered. You are SUPPOSED to show all emotions as much as possible. IT’s GREAT that your dissapointment shows. Now another step would be to say I feel disappointed.
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 7:35pm
251: Daria
says:
Lori – wow!
I am going to be receiving super amazing gifts like Lori!!!
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 7:36pm
252: No Bliss
says:
I am not stupid, but what i am about to say may sound like – i just have no idea.
When I am disappionted that he makes plans that never include me, its causes a fight, he says i spoil his night , his golf etc .
He says i should be happy that he’s going out having a good time.
he would be happy for me if i was .
so i am really confused.
i show emotion and i get my head bitten off, he stays home and sulks cause i made him feel bad about going or he goes and doens’t come back for
the whole night to make the most of us fighting.
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 8:13pm
253: Daria
says:
No Bliss – remember its not about what he says or his immediate reaction. it’s about YOU and expressing your emotions and and your boundaries.
The better results will come, in the above scenarios I did mention some examples of being attacked after expressing feelings wehn men arent used to it
Wednesday, 24 February 2010 @ 10:02pm
254: sia
says:
No Bliss, Stacey
you got a lot of advice about expressing your feelings – but what I remember from Rori – you need to wait until man comes to you and wonders what’s up.
Rori was saying her husband would come come and go to see the cat before her – she didn’t come to him and say: I feel sad that cat gets more attention than me. No, she went out, made herself happy, didn’t initiate any conversation, leaned way back (to the point of almost not being at home). Then, and only then when he came, she said something about feeling cranky.
If they don’t come (it happened to me:(), then you know they are not the right person..
No Bliss,
In my experience it feels futile trying to do anything – even giving a small gift to a person who is mostly unhappy. i used to have a friend like that, whatever I did, she was happy for a moment and then went back to her negativity. It was very exhausting for me and eventually I stopped trying and caring.
how would you feel about positive thinking training?
Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 10:56am
255: Stacey
says:
You ladies are awsome!!!!
Im trying very hard at staying positive and leaning back. When the hubby came home tonight from work I just said hi and let him eat and go to bed without trying to get him to talk about his day like I usually do. Im not sure if he even noticed….but I did it!! I also applied for two jobs today, I havent worked in two years so it was a challenge for me. Cant wait to see if either of them calls me back.
Well Im going to call it a night. Sleep well all!
Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 9:10pm
256: Rori Raye
says:
Christina – Welcome – and start with the ebook Have The Relationship You Want (just go to ‘Rori’s Programs” in the sidebar here and look for the book – you can download it instantly.) Then, I’m working on a new book – Strong Surrender – and if you get my newsletters (sign up also at the top of the sidebar, or you should get them automatically when you get the book) – you’ll know when it’s available. Just keep reading here, and you’ll get the help you need (Also – with all my DVD programs, there are workbooks, and if you can read lips, I’m often in closeup so you can follow along between watching me and reading and working in the workbook.) Love, Rori
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 10:45am
257: No BLiss
says:
They are great aren’t they Stacey,
i do need positive thinking, i am negative..
He came home last night really cranky would talk to me at all, kids he was fine with. So I just go dressed and still went to my girls night in at a friends. I dress cute cutely and looked pretty good/sexy for a girls night. He didn’t say a word, came in lateish, a bit tipsy , he was still up he didn’t speak to me, i just said hi and goodnight.. he didn’t sleep in my bed last night and this am when he gets up i am not going to get into why he is ” grumpy ” just going to go about my day..
thanks all… trying really hard here, he’s hard work
thank you
: – )
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 3:11pm
258: Daria
says:
Yay Stacey!!!
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 5:23pm
259: Daria
says:
No Bliss – yay for going out!
He may be hard work, but you dont have to work on him.
It’s YOU and YOU ONLY that you’re working on.
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 5:27pm
260: Orna Walters
says:
Terry,
I love this: “A couple years ago I paid attention to winks. Not anymore. That feels lazy to me. I’m only checking out the men who take the time to email me. Having that boundary for myself feels much lighter.”
Yay! I want acknowledge your win. Drawing boundaries that feel good, and sticking to them is really great because it shows how you value yourself. Brava!
Orna
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 8:17pm
261: Orna Walters
says:
Daria,
I love how you are the cheerleader of the group here! Reading all your “Yays!” to the Goddesses makes me smile so I’m sending You a BIG “Yay!”
If you desire gifts then Gifts you will receive!
Sending you a BIG HUG,
Orna
Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 8:33pm
262: No Bliss
says:
he hasn’t spoken much today, kept his distance.
Been polite and done my own thing. went shopping with my daughter took hours.
came home cooked dinner for my sister – he announced he was heading to the city to go out and left.
what does one say..
he won’t be back to probably tomorrow..
he won’t welcome in my bed that is for sure.
i am trying ..
he is the sort of man , that probably won’t care that i go out. he will embrace it and go out himself allot more ..
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 2:04am
263: sia
says:
no bliss,
it’s been a day since you started trying to not chase after him. Already you are thinking it will not work! Make sure you are fine when he is out – wish him his time out. And when you have negative thoughts, stop them with Rori’s tool: say some nonsense word over and over.
It takes practise to become a happy person – Rori was giving an example of waiting too long for a meal in a restaurant – there is soup if emotions, some of them negative – oh, i am hungry, don’t want to wait (these are loud!) – and then there are positive – what a nice restaurant, it is good to be out etc. So shifting your focus from bad thoughts to good ones takes practise – fake it till you make it – acknowledge the bad thoughts, and then cherish and focus on good ones.
It is no fun going out with someone who criticises everything and can’t be consoled – that used to be my case!
So consciously focus on what is good in your life, after a while negative things will automatically not appear so strongly anymore.
When you have that aura of positivity, then people will want to be around you – and then hopefully your man will come round.
But don’t try to go out inspite of him – go out just for yourself and be positive just for yourself!
What helped me to combat negativity, was exercise – do you have some dancing classes around?
When you say you were polite – it gives me a feeling you were bit closed off and neutral…Imagine you are dancing in the kitchen happily to some music you like – giving off great vibe – politeness doesn’t cover it – you are just happy in your space – then it is not neutral behaviour, but magnetic one.
There is that dance inside of you, find it!
Then the rain will not matter.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 4:56am
264: Julie
says:
I have a question ? Just getting out of a serious relationship in October. I am ready to move on and meet a man for a serious relationship. I get asked out alot but find myself canceling the dates before they happen. I am scared of the disappointment I went through with the last relationship. I was pushy and needy, and he was withdrawn and into his life. I have recently met a man whom I really like. Great connection. I thought we were starting a great relationship, but much to my amuse, he has thrown in the friendship word, and went on a few dates with other women he has referred to as friends as well. Although we have been a little intimate, he has assured these other women he has not been intimate with. I just found out that he went on these dates the day of the last one. He said they are dates he already had scheduled. So I accepted a date and went out as well, and am going again tonight on a date. Although I want to cancel, because I only like to date one man at a time, so I can give my full self to that man. I guess what I’m asking is due I put this friendship on the back burner and treat it as a friendship, even though I can see he truely likes me more than a friend. He text me everyday letting me know what he is doing, all day and night etc. I feel bad and keep talking myself out of this evenings date, but I have to go. I have to open up. I dont’t want to get hurt again. I don’t think I can go through that pain again. I have been reading the blogs and info sent to me. I really have taken alot in. Thats why I accepted the date. Is there some specific info I need to get to learn to open up and grow, and draw in the right person for all of the right reasons ??? Please help, I am so frustrated.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 7:50am
265: Julie
says:
I have a question ? Just getting out of a serious relationship in October. I am ready to move on and meet a man for a serious relationship. I get asked out alot but find myself canceling the dates before they happen. I am scared of the disappointment I went through with the last relationship. I was pushy and needy, and he was withdrawn and into his life. I have recently met a man whom I really like. Great connection. I thought we were starting a great relationship, but much to my amuse, he has thrown in the friendship word, and went on a few dates with other women he has referred to as friends as well. Although we have been a little intimate, he has assured me these other women he has not been intimate with. I just found out that he went on these dates the day of the last one. He said they are dates he already had scheduled. So I accepted a date and went out as well, and am going again tonight on a date. Although I want to cancel, because I only like to date one man at a time, so I can give my full self to that man. I guess what I’m asking is do I put this friendship on the back burner and treat it as a friendship, even though I can see he truely likes me more than a friend. He text me everyday letting me know what he is doing, all day and night etc. I feel bad and keep talking myself out of this evenings date, but I have to go. I have to open up. I dont’t want to get hurt again. I don’t think I can go through that pain again. I have been reading the blogs and info sent to me. I really have taken alot in. Thats why I accepted the date. Is there some specific info I need to get to learn to open up and grow, and draw in the right person for all of the right reasons ??? Please help, I am so frustrated.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 7:53am
266: Apriluv
says:
It’s been a month since the truck pulled up in front of the home of my true love. After the truck was loaded my family and friends stood around while we (Victor and me) stood holding hands and staring into one another’s eyes.
I left after having only moved in with him less than a month. We had that talk about the relationship and he expressed to me “I don’t think I need to be that committed” after I had moved in with him. I immediately turned around and left; packed up a few cloths to last me a couple of weeks and came back and moved my furniture, cookware, dishes and other personal effects out.
Well, it’s been a month and Victor came to my new home for a visit. We had a very pleasant conversation over our favorite meal; salad and salmon. After dinner, we went into my bedroom to watch TV while I went down stairs to work on a project (my way of leaning back). A few moments later, he came down stairs and announced he was leaving to go home.
I walked him outside and we hugged one another. In a playful way, I pinched him butt. We discovered the passion all over again. But I kept my boundries by not allowing myself to be intimate with him. He asked me if I wanted him to go upstairs with me and just hug. I said “I would like to know you again.”
He left and texted me in a teasing manner about being intimate and how much he wanted to make love to me. I told him, it would be wonderful to make love to him again but I would like to know you again. His response was “I’m the same guy.” And he kept prodding me to come to him home. I explained to him I felt confused and I wanted to know him once again. Suddenly, he texted back and said “sleep well.”
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 8:01am
267: Daria
says:
Apriluv. -
He’s trying to have sex with you. He’s not offerning anything, hence his dodging of your kinda unclear to me “I want to know you again.”
Please move on and Circular Date including date other men.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 9:30am
268: Soignée
says:
1. Update your plain chap stick to lip gloss or chap stick that’s tinted, glossy, shimmery, plumping (if it has peppermint oil it’s actually naturally plumping, as peppermint oil invigorates blood flow), and/or has a nice smell.
2. Stop swearing.
3. Cook or bake something delicious for someone/others (not just for yourself)
And not just anything, like macaroni & cheese, but something a little challenging!
4. Try a long, wavy hairdo.
5. Wear more feminine colors, like pink or lavender; feminine colors are any colors guys usually avoid.
6. Try a cosmetic product you usually don’t use – if you never wear lipstick, try it! If you usually don’t wear blush, put some on! Curl your lashes, define your brows, try liquid liner, whatever is new or unusual. Sometimes the simplest things make the biggest difference, and you may fall in love with a new discovery.
7. Wear a skirt, dress, or heels.
8. If you’re tired, take a nap for goodness’ sake!
9. Stop wearing unfitted, unisex t-shirts or any unisex clothing. Especially baggy sweatpants.
10. If you wear your hair up all the time, try wearing it down.
11. If you wear glasses all the time, try switching to contacts. Paired with made-up eyes, you can feel really pretty.
12. Hang out with girly girl friends instead of guy friends who treat you like “one of the guys.” Do girly things like shop at the mall or have long talks. If you don’t have many girl friends – MAKE SOME! This isn’t to say hanging out with guys takes away your femininity; it depends on what KIND of guys, whether they’re the kind who treat women like ladies, or women like they’re sex objects, the “lesser” sex, or other horrendous things.
13. Spray on cinnamon/vanilla scents. These are supposedly the most attractive scents to guys; they associate these smells with “love.”
14. Wear girly/sexy bras and underwear. Even if no one else sees them, you can feel more girly (and mysterious, as if you have a delicious secret:)).
15. Wear jewelry and accessories. Replace fake pearl jewelry with real ones!
16. Replace sneakers with cute boots or flats. These can be just as comfortable and much more feminine.
17. Generously and sincerely compliment people. Learn what “kinds” of compliments really make men feel good, and what kinds make women feel good – become a professional at making people feel really, really good!
18. Be polite. Say things like, “Thank you,” “Excuse me,” “Have a nice day.”
19. Stop picking your skin – cuticles, pimples, dry lips, etc.
20. Display positive, friendly body language. Keep your hands open instead of balling them into fists, keep arms apart instead of crossing them, smile, make eye contact, breathe slowly and deeply whenever you start to stress, laugh, stop tapping/fidgeting/twitching/scratching, etc.
21. Don’t share vulgar or dirty humor.
22. Wear clothes that have frills, lace, bows/ribbon, gathers, or ruffles.
23. Walk around with a book on your head to improve posture:)
24. Use shampoo and conditioner with a really strong, feminine smell so that your hair smells irresistible, especially when damp (I’ve heard guys like when a woman’s hair smells good over a girl who just smells good because of perfume).
25. Sit somewhere comfy with a blanket and some hot tea, and read a good romance novel:)
26. Play some really girly songs and sing and dance to them! Have fun and let loose!
27. Be “housewife-ish.” Clean your room. Do the dishes, the laundry. Tidy up the living room. Put some flowers on a table. You will feel a little more respect for yourself, and anyone you live with will appreciate you.
28. Learn HOW to put on makeup so you look and feel good. Especially perfect the “natural” look, as this is the one you should most use, and which men generally like best. Youtube videos are a great place to start, and from there, just experiment. It’s an art, you won’t perfect it in a day.
29. Redecorate your room so it looks feminine.
30. Buy some real, pretty plants or flowers to place around the home and take care of them. Studies have even shown that plants in a living environment can raise your happiness level.
31. In the shower, use your hands instead of a loofah to wash your body. Maybe it sounds weird, but this helps me get in touch with my body. It’s a gentle reminder that my body is alive, beautiful, and working hard to take care of me.:)
32. If you are looking for a new job, get one where you will be encouraged to dress well and stylishly, and where you will be surrounded by lots of other women. Also, the more feminine the industry the better – clothing, cosmetics, crafts, etc. Avoid fast food restaurants, any place that requires significant physical work, and any place where you’re basically allowed to wear whatever you want (and where you notice the employees take advantage of this – by practically wearing pajamas!). This basically applies to young women who just need to work while they’re studying for their degree, etc. Office jobs can be good too, because you’re usually encouraged to look professional. Just be careful not to look too stiff or serious, and instead, wear clothing that’s feminine AND professional. If you normally wear pant suits to work, try skirt suits.
33. Watch how you talk. If you talk fast, slow down. If you mumble, speak clearly. If you use a low voice, practice using your head voice. If you talk too much, listen more! If people can barely hear you, speak up.
34. Watch a good chick flick. Cry when there’s a sad scene! Express your happiness when something cute and romantic happens!
35. Next time you pass by a pet store, go inside! Look at the cute puppies and animals and let yourself go ga-ga over them.
36. STOP gossiping, criticizing, and complaining. Whenever you feel the urge to, just KEEP SILENT. It might be hard, but it’s worth it. Start seeing the good in people and in your life instead; there’s no need to have give and take with ugliness. It will not make you a better person. And, if people associate you with negativity, they won’t want to be around you; they might even be scared to get to know you, and you, them.
37. Get some girly pajamas. Try to avoid pants and a top, unless the pattern, material, design, etc. is very feminine. I highly recommend night gowns. If you’re married, the sexier the better!
38. Drop cynicism – cynical sarcasm, jokes, comments.
39. Hum.
40. Replace gum with something like Ice Breakers or Altoids; chewing gum looks unattractive. If you’re extremely attached to gum, switching to a cinnamon gum is a bit of a step up for two reasons: men love the smell of cinnamon (they associate it with love) AND it actually makes your breath fresher by killing the bacteria in your mouth instead of just covering it up.
41. Shave your legs, even in the winter when you don’t “have” to.
42. Don’t depend on showing lots of skin, cleavage, etc. to get attention as a woman. Focus on your aura, attitude, the way you hold yourself, and the style of your clothes instead.
43. Take a long, hot bath by candlelight and soothing music. There are many things you can put in your bath to feel feminine, such as essential oils, sweet-smelling bubble bath solution (bubble bath solution made for children have very strong scents and big bubbles – choose strawberry or some other very girly smell), rose petals, epsom salt (relaxes muscles, can be bought cheap at Walmart), and there are lots of products made especially for baths (I especially recommend Burt’s Bees and Bath & Body Works)
44. Wear earrings every day, even if they’re just studs.
45. Take smaller bites. Chew more slowly.
46. Spend time with really cute little kids. Especially happy little girls who LOVE BEING girly, and have no shame immersing themselves in girly things and activities – Barbies, Disney princesses, dress-up, pink, singing, baby animals, glitter, twirling around in frilly skirts, etc.
47. Keep a diary. Diaries help you get in touch with your emotions and clear your mind. My brother just shared with me that he thinks it’s cute when girls write in diaries.
48. Donate to a charity or cause that helps those for whom your heart is sincerely concerned. Or even better, volunteer your time. Charity is an essential trait in a truly feminine woman.
49. If you smoke, try to avoid smoking in front of men. Of course, quitting is the best choice but isn’t exactly “simple.” For my brother, smoking is THE most unattractive thing women do.
50. If you’re normal, you probably almost daily see and interact with people outside your home. So, wear makeup daily! Even if it’s just enough for you to be able to look in the mirror and not think, “I look so ______ (ugly, plain, scary, old, tired, you fill in the blank).”
51. Wear nail polish 24-7, even if it’s just clear or cream-colored. Rich, red nail polish is especially sexy & feminine for fancy occassions.
52. Don’t listen to rap, heavy metal, screamo, or anything of the like. Even rock is unfeminine; it’s fine to like, but shouldn’t be the only thing you listen to.
53. Read Fascinating Womanhood by Helen Andelin and learn the core principles of true femininity.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 9:47am
269: Soignée
says:
Another text about the movie Gone with the Wind:
I watched this movie when I was 15 and thought it the most boring thing in the world. I rewatched it the other day and fell in love.
You know, this movie is SUCH a great example of the Angelic and Human sides F.W. talks about!
Scarlett embodies the human side like no one else: she’s charming, girly, cute, flirty, and whenever she’s mad or upset (or just faking it) her poutiness is so adorable that Rhett Butler could never resist it, even when HE was very mad at her.
However, she almost completely lacks the Angelic side, making her selfish, mean, arrogant, stubborn, manipulative, ungrateful, bossy, immature, and a host of other things.
Melanie, on the other hand, perfectly embodies the Angelic side. She is sweet and unconditionally loving to everyone, and in turn is loved by the whole town. People respect her, value her opinions, want to be around her. She never, ever judges or desires ill will toward Scarlett, even after she catches Scarlett being held by her husband Ashley.
It becomes apparent how important the Human side is, though, when Ashley (Melanie’s husband) struggles to resist Scarlett’s temptations. If Melanie had a charming and childlike side like Scarlett, Ashely would never have been so tempted. Luckily, Melanie’s Angelic side is strong enough, and Ashley a good enough man, to not fall for Scarlett. Instead he holds on to the beautiful, mature love he shares with Melanie.
I think in general, the Human side is required to really attract and catch a man, but the Angelic side is necessary to create strong, lasting bonds based on trust and unselfishness. Of course, a man who’s woman doesn’t have much of a charming side will be a little miserable and bored, which is dangerous and could mean he’ll start looking at other women. And can you blame a man for being disappointed if, when he first met a woman, she was charming, adorable, girly, etc. but as soon as they got married, had kids and so on, she started only acting “mature” and “good”? I mean, that woman wouldn’t even be the same one he married. Lots of women change in this way, but it’s very important to retain girlishness even as we age.
I highly recommend watching this movie, as there’s a lot to learn from both female characters.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 9:51am
270: Soignée
says:
It is not my texts but I just wanted to leave it for you just for your pleasure. And another text about how to be more mysterious.
Strategies to create mystery when you feel it is lacking
- Make changes to things without explaining why. A feminine woman knows that by making changes, and keeping the variety, she can be a lot more interesting and enigmatic to her man. You can make changes to something around the house, make a significant change to your appearance, etc and say nothing about it. When he asks why, you can be really cheeky (I love cheeky, and so do men, believe me!) and say: ‘Wouldn’t you like to know!” or “I just did” or “I felt like it”.
You have to get out of your comfort zone. If there’s a way of life you’ve gotten used to, and he has too, make a decision to make changes sporadically and without explanation, no matter how content and comfortable you are doing things a certain way. Remember, just by being content, you’re missing out on all the JUICE in life! There are levels much higher than content
- Break the routine. There are MANY ways to do this, and not enough space here to list all the ways, but basically, you want to change things that you know you and him have gotten used to, or even expected. If you know your man expects you to do a certain thing at a certain time, don’t do it! If he comes home at 5.30-6pm and you’re usually at home, GO OUT! You can even just walk the dog. Organize a catch up with a friend, take the kids out, be on the phone when he comes home, and don’t let him hear what you’re saying
- Don’t have a response to everything. If you’ve got a predictable personality, change the way you respond to and do things. If you have strong opinions on a certain matter, and he thinks he knows what you think of it, and says something knowing what your response will be; don’t say anything! To put it simply, don’t be predictable!
- Smirk or give a cheeky grin in the place of words. If you feel that the mystery is lacking, RESIST talking to him where you need to/can. I know this can be hard, cause us girlies love to chat, but it will be well worth it!
- If you normally talk about your day to him when he comes home, or when you come home, don’t talk about your day!Let him wonder about your day.
- Don’t answer his calls. Answer his calls. Take hours to reply, or maybe don’t reply at all. I know this may seem a little harsh, and you may feel bad for your man, but as long as you keep giving him small reasons to think that you love him, he should be fine with it.
- Make plans to go out and be unavailable sometimes. If you don’t have many friends to go out with, make some! Go to a dance class or a women’s meet up group. Take lessons in feminine things such as sewing, painting, flower arranging, makeup application, fashion courses, etc. You can take up sports as well. Yes it’s possible to play sports and be feminine
- Do lots of feminine things/have feminine passions that you can engage in even at home. Have a room in the house where you typically go to that is exclusively yours. Close the door, and don’t often let him know what you’re doing in there. (Do whatever you want to do, you just don’t need to tell him about it all the time).
- If you feel sad, and you normally talk to him about it, talk to a girlfriend instead and don’t let him know why. He doesn’t have to know all of your emotions, thoughts and feelings. (Of course you can talk to him when you’re sad, and you need to to get close to him, but you don’t have to all the time).
- If you tell him you’re going out somewhere, (this works particularly well on the protective and territorial man, and most masculine men have these two traits) don’t tell him where you’re going all the time. If you know where you’re going, you can just say you don’t know yet
- change your perfume, shampoo, the way you do your makeup, your favorite pair of jeans, etc. Most men don’t notice subtle changes but they might notice it subconsciously. Even if he doesn’t mention it, you’re at least creating the ASSOCIATION that you = mysterious in his mind.
- Organize weekends away with your girlfriends, kids or family. You may not choose to bring him, which is fine, as he’ll wonder what you’re doing over the weekend without him.
- Listen more than you speak., There’s nothing that’s more beneficial in being mysterious than this. Talking gives people clear clues about how you think and feel and doesn’t leave much to the imagination.
- Be careful with sexual desire. You want to keep him wondering whether you desire him sexually or not and change the energy. If you are sexually active with your man, don’t make your sex with him regular and consistent. Be intimate with him a few times one week, then have a week or 2 off. Whatever suits you. Men need uncertainty in sexual intimacy! You must keep him on the tip of his toes and not let him have you all ‘worked out’!
- Keep accentuating and honoring the differences between the two of you. This is why learning the art of femininity is so important. If a woman has a lot in common with men, she’s not so mysterious anymore, because men understand men and women understand women. Do all you can to learn about femininity and EMBODY a feminine woman. The things you understand well are most likely the things he doesn’t have a clue about. Doing these will keep him fascinated! It’s all about being more of a woman!
Remember that learning strategies on how to do things in a relationship does not mean you’re being MANIPULATIVE. It just means you’re bringing out more sides to you! You’re not just one kind of person my lovely. You’re many different people on the inside, and you can choose which person to bring out at the right time. This is a skill that requires awareness, learning and practice. It’s when you’re completely readable, understandable and predictable that you become boring to your man. If you are always the same kind of person, it makes it harder for you to be exciting and fascinating to your man. You have to keep him stimulated and provide your relationship with lots of variety! You will both have a lot more fun and passion. He will also respect you more, and be much less likely to find another woman to meet his needs.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:00am
271: Soignée
says:
How To Be Mysterious
Why would a woman want to be mysterious? The ‘concept’ behind being mysterious is about keeping things fresh and exciting, so that the relationship doesn’t become to plagued by rituals. Rituals have their use (and positive uses at that) – but bad relationship rituals can turn spouses off. Often, mystery can be created by distance (being apart from your spouse) however, this isn’t always true because some couples who are often apart still don’t have much mystery. It’s all about who you show up as.
Most people have trouble creating mystery and intrigue in their intimate relationship. Couples get too comfortable, too “familiar” and feel their spouse no longer excites them. Most people have low standards for themselves and so let everything go because they believe that since they’ve been with their spouse for so long, they feel ‘accepted’ and loved for who they are.
In the first part of How to Be Mysterious, I talked about how a feminine woman understands mystery perfectly. Even if it’s just subconsciously. This is because women relate better to women, and men relate better to men. I want to emphasize this point.
A masculine man will find a feminine woman mysterious (and fascinating) just because she is her true feminine self, and he doesn’t and cannot ever live in that reality (with a few exceptions) and see the world exactly the way she does, and she is mysterious even if she doesn’t make a conscious effort to be mysterious. We’re meant to be mysterious and fascinating to the opposite sex. Masculine – Feminine are opposites and they attract, produce fire and create intense sexual energy because they’re opposites and these energies are meant to feed one another.
My last post detailed lots of strategies you can use to be mysterious to your man. These strategies are definitely actionable, but I want to let you know that they are there for you to employ when you feel that the mystery is lacking. I mean, if we had to consciously do it all the time, it would be tiresome – and life will be life so things will come up that direct our focus elsewhere.
Authenticity in who you are
You can be mysterious simply by embodying your true self. This encompasses embracing the feminine (if you’re more feminine at your core). If you are authentic, you are mysterious anyway. Anyone who is authentic,confident, real, rare, has self-respect and tends to be unique is mysterious naturally.
Strategies can be used in combination with this natural tendency, and there will be a huge spark! However, the women who are not mysterious are the ones who need approval from other people. They are not comfortable or strong enough to live life on their terms and to be an example/a leader. People follow leaders because they want more of what they’ve got. There’s ’something about’ leaders!
Mysterious Men
Have you ever met a man or a young guy who was not your normal archetype – perhaps rather physically plain from your point of view – yet you couldn’t help but find yourself drawn to him? Wanting to know more? I know when I was at College/University, there was a guy in our lecture who was really quite physically unappealing – yet one day us girls all decided at the same time that there was “something about him”.That something was a quiet, self-assured, unshakable self-confidence and masculine pride.
The coveted feeling of self-confidence
This happens to everyone! Why? Well, I’m no scientist but it’s likely because it is natural for us human beings to have moments where we feel like we are not enough. So, if someone seems to have that rare leadership skill, that so coveted ’secret’ to being confident, then we want to know more! Plus, once we find out the ’secret’ – we still want more – because a person who is reassured and confident is amazing to be around! It gives other human beings the ‘ok’ to be themselves regardless of any so-called ‘imperfections’. In fact – it’s the way that person makes us feel, as well.
A person who is self-confident has more radiance, they are more likely to get what they want – more likely to be happy and to have more gumption (get up and go attitude). From a woman’s point of view – she can be fascinating and mysterious as well as exciting and stimulating by starting to live in her feminine because men simply don’t relate to this way of life and being. Also, if a man lives in his masculine confidently – we’re more likely to be drawn to him.
The strategies
If you practice being mysterious with strategies often, yet you are not confident within yourself, you’ll eventually find it tiring. A lack of confidence leads to conforming. You will be running around, letting the current take you wherever it wants to take you. You’ll also likely be a victim to other people’s ‘talk’ and negative beliefs. Most women have been around a group of women who like to bitch, back-stab, complain – and basically have nothing good to say. If you’re like them internally, you’ll unknowingly reflect it on the outside, too.
I once heard a TV presenter discuss hair color on women with another presenter, and one of them said ‘I think there’s a certain mystery to brunettes’. I found this interesting, and started thinking about it. If you’re fine being yourself, and being a leader rather than a follower, you’ll attract people to you, and these people will want more. Also, they will want to know more about you.
I just want to tell you this: We all have something extraordinary inside of us. The feeling of self-confidence is not easy to come by. We want to be around people like this and want to know more about them because we all know there is that extraordinary thing inside of us – and we want more of it, and seeing somebody else with it tends to make us want it more and bring out more of it within ourselves.
We’ve all seen groups of women together who look the same. They don’t look the same because they’ve got the same natural facial features, they look the same because they feel the same on the inside, and therefore they exude the same energy which we humans pick up on.
Women who are not mysterious
There are plenty of women running around, flaunting their sexuality for example. There is no mystery to these people. Everything is there for all to see. Yes, men will chase them, but they will chase them for easy sex, not because they want to love them and protect them forever.
If a woman readily flaunts her sexuality, and wears revealing clothing and talks loud etc, everyone knows subconsciously why she’s doing it. Every human being knows what it’s like to want attention, this is easy to understand. Every human being knows what it’s like to feel like they are not enough, and this feeling gives us pain. We don’t want pain – we want someone who can make us happy and someone whom we can experience pleasure with.
The people who flaunt themselves for attention are unaware that people know why they’re doing it. People just don’t buy that stuff long-term! Maybe for a night of sex. We all become who we spend our time with. Our peers say a lot about us. Women hang around in packs generally, and there are plenty of groups of women who hang around together and their mission is to look hot and get as much attention as possible and ‘capture’ the guys.
Insecurity is easy to come by. Do you follow me? I’m saying that there’s no mystery in people who exude a low of sense of self-worth. We’ve all been there, we’ve all felt what its like to think we’re not enough. It’s part of life. Life is here to challenge us. It’s the rare individual who can stand out from the rest and be a leader/be confident that makes people want to know more about them and be around them (there’s more to it than that, but for the moment we’re talking about mystery).
On couples….
Have you ever noticed that couples who have been together for a long time start to look alike? This is cute, yes, but I think there’s a bad side to this. Ideally, in a relationship where you are still madly in love and hot for each other, you’ll see some differences clearly. You’ll see polarity.
The women who relate completely to Men….
I also often see women take up their man’s passion in order to connect with him and to feel more loved by him. I know women taking up golf competitively for example, in order to connect with their man and be more accepted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing a sport that he likes for fun, but if you go along with him all the time, and start to do what he does, the way he does it – he now gets you. He understands you; there’s no mystery. This is why being ‘one of the boys’ is not beneficial. If you relate completely to men on their level, and they can relate to you 100% – you’ve lost the mystery.
Ideally, when he plays golf/soccer/football/darts/goes fishing – you will be shopping, having a picnic, having your girlfriends over, and basically just doing the things that girls do. You can still play sports with him – but it’s the women who relate to their men who lose the mystery. It’s the women who make these male-dominated sports in to a competition (like all masculine men do – they want to be challenged and want to compete) then men can relate.
Understanding Men is markedly different from RELATING to them
You still need to understand men. Feminine women understand men, but relating to them is a different thing. Understanding means that you can appreciate, accept, distinguish and comprehend. To relate means that you are joined with him – that you unite with him (in the less preferable way!) There is a good way to unite with him!!
Positives and Negatives
I am not much of a science student, but I’m going to talk about magnetism for a short second. Positive attracts negative. A positive end of a magnet will never attract a positive end of another magnet and vice versa. If you are not authentic in any way, are always available, and relate to your man completely, then you will have trouble being mysterious. You must have your own feminine interests that he doesn’t relate to if you want to be mysterious to men.
The point of this post is to encourage you to develop your feminine core, and use the strategies I mentioned in the first part of ‘How to Be Mysterious‘ when you feel you need to. Admittedly, there will be times when things get a bit too comfortable and predictable. That’s when you need to use the strategies I have given you. Otherwise, work your womanly attributes, and you’ll certainly have an advantage over your not as feminine sisters naturally when it comes to being mysterious. Remember to start from the inside-out.
Even if we put aside the feminine/masculine business for a moment, and think about mystery in general. If for example you’re in a social group, and find that everyone acts the same (who you spend time with is who you become!!) if there is a person who is strong enough to be themselves, and is different to the rest – this captures people’s attention. Humans notice contrast. The reason an authentic person who is a leader IS mysterious is because of many things, but one reason is because they have something which everybody wants – confidence. And if you’re a leader, everyone suddenly wants to know whatchya got
Authenticity is power. Everyone is born unique – but we don’t all end up unique. Most people will tend to blend in and try to fit in in order to gain acceptance, to conform, and to be safe. That’s it! I hope that all made sense.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:04am
272: Daria
says:
Soignee – i feel really angry and limited reading some of your list, and really inspired by some of it – especially the part about washing my body with my hands
I hold my head high, and my body open and relaxed – I liked this part of your list too.
I wear sneakers when I travel and all around the world men check out me and my beautiful sneakers.
I was a happy lil girl with one barbie and who liked to play with trucks and fight other boys AND girls outside.
The thing about the outside stuff is that it may be different for each one of us what WE consider beautiful is what matters for US.
to me femininity is an INSIDE JOB OF LOVING all parts of me. Outside things are not so relevant, but they can make good experiments and stuff to do if I feel inspired to them.
I can not shave my legs and men love it. I cuss and men love it.
Femininity to me is not about “toning down” the strong and unique parts of me, but reather LOVING LOVING LOVING all of me and showing it. This way I look Adorable in pijamas. So that people stare at me all around at the glow I give off.
So i stand for Brand Daria.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:07am
273: Orna Walters
says:
Apriluv,
GREAT! Really fantastic! I am grinning ear to ear. This is a really great example of how leaning back WORKS!
He came to you and you stood by your boundary.
Love is only REAL when it includes respect. I had to learn how to love respectfully before I could expect someone to love me respectfully.
Respect has a boundary. Continue holding on to the boundary you have drawn and see if he is able to step up and be the man you deserve.
Big Hug,
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:08am
274: Soignée
says:
Respect: How to Earn it and What it is.
“Respect is earned, Love is given” – Tony Robbins
A lot of people talk about respect, and how men should respect women. Unfortunately, with men, (whether they consciously know it or not) respect is not always automatic, and neither is it mandatory. There are women who command respect at the highest level, and there are women who command no respect at all.
We must remember that respect is earned. So what IS respect? Respect from a man (or from any person for that matter!) happens when you believe another person has value to bring to the table! Or when you have something of value to bring to the other person. This could be in many different forms. As feminine women, we want respect from the best kind of men. From men who respect themselves, and are, basically, good men! There are men out there who simply won’t give respect or anything at all! These men are the egocentric type. I will talk more about that at a later date.
So where does femininity come in to all of this? The highest level of respect from a man – a gentleman who is masculine, comes when you are not afraid to be a woman. It comes when you become a fantastic caring mother, wife/girlfriend, daughter, sister, friend, etc. This respect comes because you are embodying who you are at your core, and most of all, it comes because it allows men to be men! It gives them the freedom to feel like men. I know you’ve probably heard it before, but true femininity is all too rare!
At a very basic level, (taking out the idea of femininity) – respect is earned when you hold yourself to a very high standard. And do what you do with passion, with consideration for others, and with integrity. If you do more than anyone else can possibly expect of you – you will earn respect.
More importantly, you must be comfortable in yourself, and be authentic, not fake. It’s important that you are not afraid to be unique and do not need the approval of other people for who you are and what your beliefs are. A woman should still be able to hold her own with a man and stimulate him.
I have said, above, that respect comes when you can bring value to the other person. So, a man can respect any woman who brings value to the table, but if you want to be respected as a feminine woman, and be respected more than he respects anyone else, it is the feminine value that you can bring to him on top of other things that really brings it to the next level. So, men can respect women as human beings, but men can also respect women as feminine souls at the same time as respecting women for all the other tings they can bring to the table.
There are a lot of women out there who believe that by being ‘one of the boys’ they will get more love and respect from men. This is not true (especially when it comes to being loved and cherished). In fact, men might get confused! How do you deal with a woman who looks like a woman, yet relates completely to men?! Do they muck about with you like their guy friends? Or do they take extra care of you like they would a feminine woman who exhibits that ever so valuable trait – vulnerability?
So, how else can we command respect from a man? Well, as well as all the above, take care of him! And do it better than any other woman could. Let men be men. Do not try and control him or his whereabouts or check up on him regularly – or CONSTANTLY! If he wants to do a man’s thing instead of going for a picnic with you, or taking you shopping, let him do that regularly and be fair! Give him freedom and understand that you have to let him be, do, and feel like a man should feel.
You can command respect from a man by showing up as who you really are at your core – a truly feminine woman. If this sounds silly, or too simplistic – I am saying it because most women do not realise that just by being a woman – does not mean you are feminine! Just by dressing in pretty dresses, loving children and animals, or enjoying shopping – does not make you truly feminine! Femininity is true when it shows in your character! We also need to appreciate and understand masculinity. If we can understand men, and appreciate what they bring to the table, then this helps to build mutual respect as he respects you for your you bring to the table.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:09am
275: Orna Walters
says:
Apriluv,
One more thing – PLEASE Circular Date. This is a must! I agree with Daria completely.
This is the only way to smoke out what is real and what is not.
Big Hug,
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:11am
276: Daria
says:
I felt angry at the don’ts. I do DO all of the do’s. And simply don’t think I have to limit myself with Don’ts if I feel good doing them and I feel magnetic doing them.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:14am
277: Soignée
says:
Dear Daria,
if you read attentively, I wrote that these are not my text, but I found them and offered them to ladies, just for a challenge and information. Maybe someone will find some interesting insight in them. I did, maybe someone else can find some ideas.
I love new ideas, I love new habits and new thoughts, I love new insights I can interchange with other people.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:14am
278: Daria
says:
I LIKE this part:
This is what happened with me with guywhohadababy
“I also often see women take up their man’s passion in order to connect with him and to feel more loved by him. I know women taking up golf competitively for example, in order to connect with their man and be more accepted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing a sport that he likes for fun, but if you go along with him all the time, and start to do what he does, the way he does it – he now gets you. He understands you; there’s no mystery. This is why being ‘one of the boys’ is not beneficial. If you relate completely to men on their level, and they can relate to you 100% – you’ve lost the mystery.”
OMGOSH. I was totally relating to my guy friends at that time. I did not know the feminine part of me. I’m SOOO GLAD I got dumped and discovered it, FOR REAL.
hehehehee…
yes i feel a lil sad for the girl that I was , but I feel SO GLAD for the woman I am now
and yes I can still choose to relate WHEN I WANT TO,
but I also know my feminine self. ha. its just a “magic shift” away
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:22am
279: Daria
says:
Soignee-
ok.. I didn’t know the list part was not yours. After the list part I did read that the next posts were quoted.
Either way… I still stand by my feelings.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:24am
280: Apriluv
says:
Daria and Orna Thank you for the encouragement! Yes, I am circuit dating and will continue to do so. You are so right Daria, Victor had nothing to offer me but great sex. I did express that I did not want to get my feeling wrapped up so soon after our break up and that I wanted to get to know him again and that I felt confused. I stated “I would love to make you to you! That would be so wonderful! I’m feeling confused. And would like to know you again.” He stated “I’m still the same guy.” I left the conversation alone from that point. He then stated he was going to bed and have a good sleep.
I had already planned out my weekend and will continue to circuit date, as I realize Victor is not emotionally ready for me at this point. He just lost his job as a university professor and is also loosing his home. I cannot allow myself to be a door mat while he goes through his difficulties however, I will be the kind loving person that I truly am to everyone. I will treat him equitably, but will not allow myself to get wrapped up him. Currently, I have four guys in my circuit rotation.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:28am
281: Daria
says:
Soignee – THANK YOU for posting these. They are full of insights indeed.
PS – I feel defensive reading your last post to me – that they are not yours – I feel like theres defending going on.
I feel like my expressing that I feel angry is being heard as an attack. Which I don’t want – though I often feel this is the case in General – aha a trigger.
NEW TOOL TO SAY OUTLOUD CALLED: ASK AND RECEIVE
A part of my being already knows, that even though I feel afraid that expressing my anger will be heard by others as an attack, this trigger is being healed now.
I allow that part of my being to inform the rest of me now.
That part of my being is informing the rest of me now.
Information transfer is now complete.
****
Soignee I still feel a lil on eggshells around you because thinking back I feel afraid and angry from feeling criticized in the past.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:31am
282: Orna Walters
says:
Daria,
I think the KEY is that you don’t Lose Yourself. Many women simply morph into a version of their man – liking what he likes, doing what he likes to do.
My husband calls it “Twisting into a pretzel to get love.” Men do it too.
It is vital to be clear on WHO You are and what you REQUIRE in relationship.
Attraction is actually created from the DIFFERENCES between two people – not their similarities. This is the dance of relationship.
Big Hug,
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:32am
283: Lucy
says:
I feel attracted by the differences between our bodies and by the similarities between the other aspects of us.
My ex and I are too different; I feel unattracted by that.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 10:38am
284: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy,
Yes there certainly has to be some similarities. I look it like two circles that overlap a bit.
In a healthy relationship the similarities come from our human-ness, our One-ness, and the differences are most apparent in what we require in relationship.
When we have everything in common with someone, there is no spark, no attraction – that’s a friend.
Hope this helps clarify!
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 11:13am
285: Rori Raye
says:
Julie, Welcome, and Circular Dating will heal you. Just start. You’ll find help here, and in my Targeting Mr. Right Program. Please stop investing yourself in any one man unless he’s about to marry you. Love, Rori
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 12:29pm
286: Soignée
says:
Dear Daria,
I feel such a pitty you feel afraid of me in the past.
You are such a beautiful goddess and your feeling expressions are so beautiful, too. You have such a nice vibe in the recent posts, I feeli admiration about your nice energy.
You are really good at feeling expressing. I loved your description of dancing. I love your natural feminine attitude. So I do like you. You do not have to feel afraid, maybe you can understand me what I meant in the past.
But I enjoy your beautiful nice energy. You are a great goddess. These are my feelings for you.(I do not bite people, and especially nice ones,
:)))
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 12:33pm
287: Lucy
says:
Orna – “When we have everything in common with someone, there is no spark, no attraction – that’s a friend.”
Wow, Orna, this is really food for thought for me. Maybe that is why TN man is in no hurry to drive ten hours to meet me — he has already met me in himself!
We have so much in common, and I feel wildly attracted to him because of what we have in common (the same kind of weirdness). Is that unusual, to be attracted to someone because you are so similar?
And is it possible that he doesn’t feel quite as attracted to me because we are so similar? (He expresses major attraction, but he has not made the trip.)
Hmm. I didn’t “twist myself into a pretzel” — I already was like him. Is it possible to twist myself into a pretzel to be UNLIKE him?
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 12:57pm
288: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy,
Because you have not met him you do not have the answer. This relationship is NOT REAL. It is completely imaginary. It only exiss in your mind.
You won’t know about similarities or differences or attraction or any of that until you meet face to face.
You believe that the two of you are similar because you have projected yourself onto him (and your idea of what you desire onto him).
Please Circular Date and treat yourself like the most precious object on the planet.
You may not like me saying it, but the sooner you move on, (and see if he steps up) the better off you’ll be when you see you’ve literally WASTED TIME.
I know you’ll say how much you’ve “received” from him – but the hard cold facts are that what you think you “received” from HIM you’ve given to yourself using him as the vessel.
Get out of this fantasy and join us in the real world. There are GREAT opportunities for you here!
Big Hug,
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 1:08pm
289: Lucy
says:
Orna — “This relationship is NOT REAL” sounds like something I do not believe, as Daria says. We have been round and round this issue on here, and I feel frustrated when I feel as though my beliefs are not being respected. The relationship does NOT exist only in my mind. It is okay for you to not feel comfortable with this type of relationship for yourself, but it feels bad when people insist that I share their opinions on that. It is similar to when people have a relationship with God — they do not have to see God to have a relationship with God. We are spiritual beings, not confined to physical bodies. We are all connected to one another. We can know each other’s hearts without being in physical proximity. It is not imaginary — I did not produce this relationship in my imagination.
I DO circular date and treat myself like the most precious object on the planet.
(although I wouldn’t use the word “object.”) There is no need to “move on” because I have never stopped moving in the first place. I am not wasting any time because I am not standing still — I am doing all the things I want to be doing, meeting men, living my life. I have the ability to love a man yet still be open to other men, therefore I am not wasting my time. Maybe I have a bit of that polyamory ability that Erika has mentioned. I feel curious about that.
I feel sad that you think I am wasting my time by having fun with an amazing guy. He gives me joy, intellectual stimulation, nurturing, laughs, and so much more. He does not take anything away from me and my life.
“what you think you “received” from HIM you’ve given to yourself using him as the vessel.” — YES! You’ve got it!! We are all ONE — we are all always only giving to ourselves because we are all that there is, there is only one of us — and there are different vessels! Love comes to me through him as a vessel. Thats it exactly.
We are all only vessels of the same love.
I feel amused and shocked by this: “Get out of this fantasy and join us in the real world. There are GREAT opportunities for you here!” I am in the real world, just as much as anyone else on here is. Wow. That feels shocking to hear that. I feel curious about why you seem so triggered by me. You seem almost angry.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 1:36pm
290: Lucy
says:
Orna, I really felt unheard by you. I don’t know why you insist on judging me instead of just addressing the points I am expressing.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 1:38pm
291: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy,
There’s no anger on my part. I think that is the one limitation of text only communication because TONE is the choice of the reader.
I am not angry, nor triggered. What you hear is frustration as I hear you wanting MORE from this relationship and then vacillate to defend it in its current form when you receive Expert advice.
As I’m here to help, that is my intention. To assist You, to empower You.
If what you desire is a true intimate relationship, a spiritual partnership, I know how to create that. I am the most unlikely candidate to have the amazing relationship I have today with my husband. I empower my clients to create that, and my goal is to empower you to have that too.
I agree with everything you say about spirit and love – We are all One. However in my view what is spirit and what is of solid form here in 3D are not interchangeable.
If you never mentioned wanting to meet this man… If you were truly fulfilled with a “phone friendship”…
If you were satisfied with things as they stand in every layer of your being…
THEN I would not have made my statement about “the real world.”
I certainly apologize if you feel you are being disrespected.
It is your unfulfilled desires in this “relationship” (which you have expressed here) that make me question how you truly treat yourself, how you truly value yourself.
I only desire the BEST for You! <3
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 2:09pm
292: Lucy
says:
Hi Orna, I don’t have time right now to respond to everything you wrote, but for now I will say that I disagree that “TONE is the choice of the reader.”
TONE is a component of writing, chosen by the author. Here is a definition for you:
“Tone in writing refers to the writer’s attitude toward the reader and the subject of the message. The overall tone of a written message affects the reader just as one’s tone of voice affects the listener in everyday exchanges” (Ober 88).
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 2:41pm
293: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy,
With that definition in mind then my messages are embodied LOVE and Passion.
Sending you love and light (more then words could every convey),
Orna
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 2:49pm
294: Lucy
says:
Orna, I, too, know how to create a true intimate spiritual relationship. That is the point I have been trying to make with you.
You say that you are the most unlikely candidate to have this kind of relationship — but, truthfully, I am actually a very LIKELY candidate to have this kind of relationship. People who know me, know that about me. And, honestly, the relationship I have with him IS that kind of relationship. In fairness to you, I will say that it is the kind of thing one probably can’t understand unless one has experienced it. It may also be something that many people are unable to experience — it requires a certain type of person, with specific spiritual traits that are very uncommon. Maybe it is beyond the scope of this forum. I had hoped that, even though I am different, I would be able to share here and find support for the journey.
The only thing missing with him is a physical relationship — that is what you hear me expressing on here as lacking. I do have physical relationships with other men, but I would enjoy a physical relationship with this man whom I have connected with already on an intimate spiritual and emotional level. Using your terms, in other words, we have what is “spirit” but not what is “solid form.”
I accept your apology.
Lucy <3
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 3:05pm
295: Orna Walters
says:
Lucy,
Thank you for accepting my apology. I truly mean no harm, certainly no disrespect, and I want more than anything for you to feel heard by me.
I hear you. I do.
Only you know what is in your heart.
I am a deeply spiritual person. It is part of my life purpose to remind people of their connection to the Divine.
I am also, whether for good or bad, a very passionate person.
If you listened to the interview my husband and I did with Rori it is quite evident that I am passionate about empowering others.
I truly desire for you to feel fulfilled, satisfied, loved and cherished on all levels.
Big Hug,
Orna <3
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 3:17pm
296: Lucy
says:
Thank you, Orna — I hear your loving intentions strongly here — this seems to be written from a higher energy level, closer to unconditional love (which is a higher energy than empowerment)
Sometimes when we are “passionate about empowering others” we make the mistake of thinking (often unconsciously) that other people’s experiences are supposed to look like ours. I feel happy for you that you have found your amazing relationship. I feel glad, too, that you desire to help others. I believe that we are all teachers of ourselves and each other, by virtue of living and interacting on this planet, and that every experience that enters our lives has shown up in order to teach us something.
May we all continue to learn and love.
Hugs back to you.
Lucy <3
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 3:59pm
297: No Bliss
says:
Sia, you are right. I was my predictable self. Annoyed that he was going out.
The usual way i always am, I feel disappointed that
he always makes plans and i am never ever included.
Unless it involves the kids and we have to go.
I am not in a real relationship, its more like a business deal.
He does his thing and i can do what i like, and we come together for sex.
The only thing i get from him is him home occassionaly at night, help with the kids sports etc and sex.
No conversation, No fun, No outings..
I am trying ladies, I have a long way to go.
I blew it last night or at 3am this am. When he snuck in, and showered downstairs.. IT was like he was was away some guilt..
I was up, one of the kids was ill. was tending to them and i heard a noise downstairs and went to investigate, was shocked to see him there, and he went off at me thinking i was checking up on him..
So it escalated from there..
So last night was the 3rd night not sleeping in same bed, refusing eye contact and making sure we don’t touch each other..
I am trying and i do read all the post.
They are very informative, but i do get information overload and i an not sure where to start and how to act.
I am an open book, there is no mystery with me, its written all over my face.
I am trying thank you for being supportive and not judging me.
Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 7:42pm
298: Uschi
says:
Wow, brandnew site and already almost 300 postings – it shows how popular you are Rori
Good for you girl
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 12:18pm
299: No Bliss
says:
Ladies I need to vent or I will vent at him.
He slept on the coach last night, won’t talk to me, thats nearly a week now.
It feels like Deja Vu, he’s left before and its always footy season, so he can feel better about going out thurs, frid ,sat & sun nights and watching the games. thats every week, and when the season is over, he needs us again..
How do i deal with this, its horrible.
My kids are at an age that they really understand more and more and see whats going on..
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 1:26pm
300: Julia
says:
Thanks, Tinque,
For helping me find this link; it’s what I needed to do
What do ya’ll think of this?
Anyway. the guy who is in my singles Sunday School group, who has been flirting with me, then was rude and went after that other gal full-throttle, was in Sunday School, this morning, and she came in right after he did, went right over and sat down beside him. (They both came in late, as usual).
When he went by the table where I was sitting (I’m the membership officer, so sit at a table in the back of the room, to greet people as they come in), he absent-mindedly waved, like he is used to doing that. I didn’t wave back; I was paying attention to the speaker, who was already talking at that time.
I just didn’t pay him any attention at all, although I wanted to. I was busy, after the class was over, and he and she were both near the table, but neither spoke to me.
I thought she and I were becoming friends, and then I sent her an Email, letting her know that I know she smokes, and I can’t be around smoke, because both my parents died of COPD, from smoking; she acknowledged that Email, said ok about the smoking. I haven’t heard from her since; she doesn’t answer my texts, and 2 weeks ago, when I went to speak to her after class, she was talking to someone else.
Anyway, I just am not waiting around for him; they’ll do what they like. In the meantime, I’m living my life.
I am done with him, and have moved on. I was proud of myself!
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 1:39pm
301: TW
says:
Hello ladies..
I have a little problem that I need you all to help me with. I met this guy and we instantly clicked and then it all went down hill. I did not hear from him in a month and then on VDay he called and the moment was awkward. Well anyway, last week he came over and we talked a little bit and then we had sex. I wanted to have sex.. I was not forced or pushed or anything like that so that is not my issue. My issue is that I love this man but feels like he puts everything in life before me. Work, his kids, EVERYTHING… In the beginning it was all abut seeing and talking to TW and now it is different. I would love for him to move in with me and start out loves together with our children. He has expressed to me that I am the one and has even mentioned having another baby with me. I would love to conceive again but I am not sure if he were telling me what I wanted to hear or was he actually telling the truth. I am not on birth control and we are exclusive sexually so we are no longer using condoms so he knows that there is a risk every time of me having a baby… What do you guys think?
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 3:24pm
302: Lori
says:
TW,
I feel you are putting yourself in a dangerous position having unprotected sex with a man you did not hear from for a month. And I also feel that you should not be exclusive with a man who puts everything else in his life before you. Sexual exclusivity is fine, WITH PROTECTION. TOTAL exclusivity is NOT fine until he is putting you first. How would you feel if you did end up getting pregnant and this man never steps up? Are you OK with the possibility of raising another baby alone if he doesn’t?
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 4:03pm
303: kismet
says:
I know we live in 21st century, but some communities are still racist and stereotypical in thought.
I’m in an interracial relationship. I knew what I was getting myself into. I knew that I would risk people making horrible untrue judgements of me. My parents are really concerned about that, and are probably racist themselves too. They say they care about me that’s why they warn me to not be with him, even just as friends.
So he finally tells me he wants a break because he wants my family and me to be happy. But how can I be happy if I go against my wishes, sucking up to strangers who don’t care about me, just to be safe but unhappy?
What am I supposed to do? He’s the few guys who actually understand where I’m coming from, because he’s gone through so much also. Should I give that up for people’s “respect” and so my reputation isn’t tarnished? Which would be better in the long run?
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 4:04pm
304: Lori
says:
As for me, I just got back from a fabulous weekend out of town. I flew up to check out the town where my new job will be located and one of my circular dating guys who is military and stationed about an hour south of that town drove up and picked me up from the airport. We spent the weekend experiencing the town and the surrounding area. We had great food, wine, conversation and affection. I leaned back the entire time and he took care of everything and seemed to just want to show me a fabulous time. He kept saying I seemed more feminine, relaxed and different and how unbelievably attractive he found that, and I had to laugh to myself because the last time I saw him was before I started Rori’s programs. I used to be really nervous around this man. He is a young marine officer that is so handsome he could be on posters for them. Because I felt mentally and physically attracted to him, I used to constantly stress about whether or not he liked me, how things could work given the age difference, distance and his career etc.
This weekend was totally different. I went in with no expectations, no doubts, no insecurities. I saw it as going up to check it out to see if it was a good place and job to fit into MY life and just saw him as some company along the way. I could even visualize me moving forward on my bridge and him joining me and walking side by side with me for a little while. And what a difference! I felt so relaxed and happy the whole time. We even slept in the same bed without having sex and he held and kissed me all night and the feeling was just so amazing as I have not had that in quite awhile.
But the funny thing is, when I left I just felt so confident that whatever will happen will happen. If I see him again, great. If not, that’s fine as well. I’m alfready looking forward to another date with Mr. Fabulous from my own town, and the weekend with Hot Marine took away my anxieties about whether or not Mr. Fabulous is as into me as I am into him as well!
I really wish I could find the right words to express the difference in dating this way. It is SO worth weeding through the bad circular dates to get this feeling. It’s almost like a feeling of PEACE. After rowing and over functioning and stressing and worrying and feeling insecure my entire dating life, I feel like I’m on vacation on some tropical island. And friends and family keep telling me I look and seem so rested and relaxed. It’s fabulous!
Oh, and by the way, Hot Marine isnisted on paying for the hotel, food, drinks, EVERYTHING! Even though he knew it was a business trip and I had an expense account to cover everything! He WANTED to provide me with a fantastic weekend!
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 4:06pm
305: Helen
says:
Hi,
I am new to this site, I would like to ask a question and get some help.
My Ex husband and I are talking about getting back together, depression caused our break up. My problem is that he wants to remain separated in the public eye, but our little secret is that we are back together. That picture just is not right, and I have not agree’d to it.
He says we will still be exclusive, not date, but it will help us financially if we stay separated.
Money is his issue and always has been. if we get back together, he will feel obligated to put more money toward the house and kids, we will pay more child care.
I really want my marriage back, I am not sure how to talk to him about this ?
thanks
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 5:10pm
306: Stacey
says:
Hi everyone! Its been a couple days but I think its begining to work!! Friday I spent the day with my best friend and didnt get home till way after he did and last night I went out dancing and just hanging out having fun. Today he actually wanted to get a movie to watch, he rented Couples Retreat and we watched it. We were in seperate chairs but in the same room…..after the movie he got up and made the comment that it was a good movie because it showed what happens when someone gets married and then forgets what they have. Not sure if Im seeing more than is really there, but I took it as a step in the right direction. He also told me that he initially went out with me cause I wasnt like every other woman out there, but that he would like it if I could be a little more girly (I admit I am not). So I think im gonna work on that a little.
Just wanted to share my good news with all of you. And as always you all are wonderful!!!!
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 9:08pm
307: No Bliss
says:
Hi Stacey,
I am far from an expert, it sounds good to me, that too would make my day.
I am really happy for you.. Yehh !!
mine’s a total disaster, he emailed me today, says he’d prefer not to come home it would just be easier, he feels closed in, financially and socially. It would be easier for him to off himself or move out.
Great choice, I did not email or call him, he should not have email that too me, but he always does. He runs when he gets depressed.
I feel after reading lots today he is serverly depressed and it will get worse if he does not seek help especially seeing its been going on for years, with such a distinct pattern..
Oh my sorry
this is you moment,, so happy for you Stace, thats awesome, looking forward to more happy comments coming from you and keep you eye out I know I will post one and also change my name..
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 10:14pm
308: Daria
says:
OMGOSH Thats AWESOME STACEY!
Sunday, 28 February 2010 @ 10:59pm
309: la la land
says:
here is my question:
when i started all this [my husband was on his way out ..]
things got better really fast
and started to make sense and fall into place
but…
i dont get the ‘i love you’, ‘i miss you ‘ stuff anymore.
as if im being watched to see if i succeed in building my life out of him in the relationship.. like a test.
[sex and affection has come back though]
what is going on? is he turning me into a buddy?
do i bring it up? am i too greedy? do i give time?
thanks in advance..
Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 12:10am
310: Soignée