What Do I Have To Do To Make You Love Me?

0608262920-sidewglassessmallWatching a Tony Robbins video – http://getrmt.com/mieke.html I asked myself “What is the biggest “story” I tell myself in my life?”

I picked a few situations I thought were possible, and then drilled down to: I don’t want to hear what you have to say…I feel resistance…ooooo…you’re asking something of me…no…I instinctively get in gear to have to DO something, now! I have to DO something to…be better, stronger, smarter, happier…to please YOU…

I blame someone else, I blame myself – and

THAT’S a smokescreen!

I simply am trying to “figure” out what it is I need to do – why I didn’t do it, what you or my parents, or anyone else forgot to tell me so I’d know what to do, or made it hard for me to know what to do, or hard for me to do it.

And so I’m angry.

Angry that I have to do anything at all.

Angry that I can’t figure out what it is I need to do.

Angry at the effort and energy I put out figuring out what to do, doing so much, throwing everything at the wall hoping it will stick, making my life a vision board!

And so my entire relationship to anyone around me can be a constant power struggle.

Because I need to be loved and approved of, my mind will:

Try to categorize and prioritize who’s most important, who I need to please first, who I don’t have to please, whose anger or disappointment I’ll have to stem first, what hole I’ll have to plug first.

I run around stopping leaks, collecting the love I can, shutting myself down when it doesn’t appear that love is coming towards me.

I want to place – not just blame – but responsibility somewhere, anywhere else but on me – because I see and experience my responsibility as my responsibility to do what I have to do to please YOU! To do what I SHOULD be doing. To do what’s important to…I’m not sure who.

So, here I am, figuring out who’s important, what’s important, thinking of myself as an instrument, as a SERVANT.

And my pay isn’t money (though that serves as a feeling of accomplishment, and I’ll take that as proof you like me…) – it’s a smile, a nice word, a touch, a sense that you think I’m important. It’s appreciation. It’s attention.

So – are we all like this? All babies doing anything and everything for attention?

Like my dog, doing anything and everything for food? She’s now figured out how to play – how to LOOK like she’s playing, engage me in play – do what she HAS to do to get me to FEED her! To give her an extra snack.

Am I like my dog, just on a more “sophisticated” level (though I think it’s pretty sophisticated that my dog has figured out SO MUCH in order to get me to feed her (she’ll offer to go outside to pee a million times a day, when she doesn’t have to pee at all – to earn my goodwill and get an immediate reward of food).

Have I learned, just like my dog, what chords to play, what to say, what to do to get your love?

Have I even asked…“For what reason do I believe I don’t ALREADY have all the love I could ever need, require, want, desire?”

*Could it be my belief that it isn’t there already that’s blocking me from even SEEING the love that’s all around me, ready to come to me?

I see this with my clients. They believe they’ve tried everything for love. They’ve done Online Dating (and then I look at their profiles and see horrid, unflattering, fuzzy pictures with other men in them, I see profiles written like resumes, I see fields not even filled out.

I see bad haircuts, and no makeup, and clothes that hide figures.

I see tense bodies.

It gets me to notice my own tense body – a good practice, because, after all, there really is no one out there but me.

Who do I think I’m living this life for?

And that’s the question I ask myself today.

Do I believe that if I live my life in a way that focuses on my good feelings, health and happiness, without taking anyone else into account, and yet LOVING and Radically Accepting everyone and everything else around me – I’m somehow “doing it wrong”?

This is going to be a long series of essays, with Tools for healing, about how to turn this on its head.

Just the simple awareness – at every moment – of “Where am I coming from?” “For what reason am I thinking this or saying this or doing this?” is enough to dissolve the “doing” that blocks my experience of love.

Instead of believing I need to find it and get it – all I need do is allow it in.

What makes this so challenging for us all is EVIDENCE. The only evidence we have that anything works is our past experience, what we’ve been taught, our habits, what we believe to be true. It’s BECOME the truth so much, that letting go of this feels like death.

We have NO evidence to go forward into what is, to us, the complete UNKNOWN.

And, we can’t rely on our knowledge to help us make the unknown less scary, because that knowledge comes from the same place that got us stuck and kept us stuck for so long.

So, not only do we have to step into some Unknown, we have to do it with No Brain. No Information. No Knowledge. No Cheat Sheet. No Clue.

Wow. Talk about facing fear.

So – here’s what I want you to tell yourself: “I need do nothing.”

It doesn’t mean nothing will happen. Doesn’t mean love won’t show up big time. It just means – “I don’t have to know what to do, or flail around trying to figure out what to do – in order to MAKE it happen.”

It doesn’t MATTER “whose responsibility” something is. It doesn’t matter who made what happen, or who did what to who, or what happened to us. It doesn’t matter how hurt or tired, or afraid or angry we feel.

In so many ways, the world is an illusion – made up of our particular, single-sided view of the world. It is a made-up universe of our mental habits. It’s seen the way it’s seen, interpreted the way it’s interpreted, for so many reasons. Our past, our experiences, our internal system of cells, mitochondria, images, memories, brain synapses, neural pathways, and the collective unconscious we all feel.

If this is so – then what could I possibly figure out that would make you love me? OR – perhaps I could spend some time figuring out how to make YOU love me, and then not be able to figure out how to make HIM love me.

I’ve spent my life, then, trying to be loved – when, I could so much more easily believe I’m already loved, and that I don’t have to DO anything to “make that happen.”

Since we have no idea what the “truth” is – I choose to believe in what I’ve just made up here.

It feels good. I calm down. I relax. My body relaxes. I feel “home,” I feel “with me,” I feel connected to me and to the world. I don’t have to figure you out. I just have to let you love me – however it is you choose to do that.

Sometimes your love will match up with what feels good to me, and sometimes it won’t. And sometimes we can talk and work it out – because it’s a good match. And sometimes – it just isn’t. There’s too much work.

I believe in the work needed to create an environment of love. Of home. I do not believe in worrying about whether or not this has anything to do with your loving me.

I believe an environment of love and acceptance and attention can dissolve your blocks to love, and so you might find your love for me.

But those things are exactly what I’d do for myself – so I still don’t have to DO anything to make you love me.

Love, Rori

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1,653 Comments to “What Do I Have To Do To Make You Love Me?”

  1. 1: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    I need do nothing.

    Such a small sentence, but so difficult for me.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:51am

  2. 2: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Everyone expresses love differently. Sometimes we just don’t respond or feel good about how someone else expresses love. It’s not right or wrong, it’s just a bad fit. Personally, gifts mean nothing to me. So if I was with someone and that was their main way of showing love, it just wouldn’t work. CW expresses love with his time and with doing services like building things or giving advice on things he’s knowledgable about. Once I realized that, I was able to relax a lot and see that he was giving a huge amount of love to me. For me touch is the most important thing. I had to communicate that to him. And it meant a lot when I noticed him reaching out to give that to me. And, I still have to initiate it a lot with hugs throughout the day when were together. But, he gets it and it works for us.

    I think giving is love. But love is also accepting. It’s both things together. If one side is missing in a relationship, then it won’t work.

    Reposting to follow new thread…..

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 12:23pm

  3. 3: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranium – I have zero care for gifts too. Zero. Although I LOVE flowers. I have a big deal with acts of service and quality time. Those are my love languages, and touch too. :)

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 12:51pm

  4. 4: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “Sometimes your love will match up with what feels good to me, and sometimes it won’t. And sometimes we can talk and work it out – because it’s a good match. And sometimes – it just isn’t. There’s too much work”


    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 12:51pm

  5. 5: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “I believe an environment of love and acceptance and attention can dissolve your blocks to love, and so you might find your love for me.

    But those things are exactly what I’d do for myself – so I still don’t have to DO anything to make you love me.”

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 12:53pm

  6. 6: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    So I had a talk with D tonight.

    And I welcome your feedback about it.

    I saw him and we spoke. He was not unaffectionate, but he was reserved. He did put his arms around me and hold me, but when he was talking to me I sensed a lot of reservation in him.

    First he asked me what I wanted to talk about, but I told him that I wanted to listen to what he had to say. I was more interested in *hearing* him than speaking.

    And he spoke to me about his main concerns, which I will detail in a little bit, and afterwards he said “that’s it” in a resigned way. And I made as if to go, and he said, “so maybe you should take tonight to think about what I’ve said and we’ll talk tomorrow”, and then he kissed me, slow and deep and passionate and affectionate, and touching me gently.

    And I went home, promising to talk to him on Skype tomorrow when I’ve had a chance to think about what he’s said.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:01pm

  7. 7: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rori…
    this is such a beautifully perfect post.. “i need to do nothing.” That really says it all. I realize how I create my environment with old habits and comfort zones interacting with people on a level I’m used to. I’m finding it hard to find my personality within feeling messages.

    I went on a date Sunday. I didn’t really WANT to go…but I WANT to welcome energy coming towards me, so I went, but it felt forced. He is a nice man, but not for me. At one point he took me into a Barnes and Noble and proceeded to pick a book and read about my sun sign,moon, sign, whatever the f*ck sign about me while I was standing right there. Instead of getting to know ME, he spent time reading about me. I could not believe it. He could tell I was annoyed and continued to read anyway. I told him I would not feel right going on a second date.

    Musician called yesterday, we talked for a bit. I’m asking myself where my attraction for him is coming from? I feel like he prefers to hear himself talk than me, and also is very preoccupied about money…which doesn’t feel fun to me. He seems very practical, which I understand, but also doesn’t feel fun. We have plans to get together next week, since this week we are both too busy. We will see what reality brings….if it happens it happens, if it doesn’t it doesn’t. I feel ok with that.

    Awhile ago i posted about my ex, who surprised me with saying He’d always want me….and saying some really sweet, truthful comments. After the conversation I really felt like leaning back, leaning back hard. I’m doing well with it, haven’t heard from him, but I intend on not leaning forward one bit. Sometimes I feel like our connection is so strong, that the relationship can be turned around, other times i doubt it. This comes back to Rori’s post about the stories we tell ourselves and believing that people love us. I do believe he loves me….I love him too. I can bathe in it, but I don’t need to do anything.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  8. 8: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    He said he would like things to work out but he has a lot of reservations and concerns.

    He said his two main issues were, that when he felt we had agreed to something, getting together and doing something, that I always wanted more and he would feel that we’d reached the boundary of what we were going to do, and I’d linger on, and he didn’t want to be the one to hurt me by asking for time alone, or saying that there was something else he’d planned to do afterwards, for example. He said he needed us to stick to things we’d agreed to.

    And then he said that he has a huge problem in that he likes things on an even keel, and he doesn’t have a great deal of emotional output, so when something feels the slightest bit off or not going well, his first response is to withdraw so he can get back to his happy place. To just get away from the situation as quickly as he can so he can spend some time alone and get back to equilibrium again. And he said I will want to fix things and that makes him want to retreat even more and pushes him away. Where I actually just need to LET him go. He said this is absolutely essential for him to be happy within himself, and more intensity and engagement at this point makes him absolutely miserable.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:10pm

  9. 9: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Be the lily………….. already loved……… be the lily.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:10pm

  10. 10: SassyNo Gravatar says:

    Sometimes men, love, relationships, dating, marriage, etc
    just FEELS exhausting!

    I am gonna go on a men, love, relationship, dating, s&x,

    And just do nothing

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  11. 11: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I felt sad, deep sadness in my heart reading this article. Hopeless. Helpless. Despair.

    All these emotions, sadness that I have been trying to figure out how to get someone to love me.

    I feel my heart contracting, tightening just thinking about what to do to make someone love me.

    Now I feel the cells in my right breast tightening. My right eye fluttering and my right shoulder tensing up.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:30pm

  12. 12: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I send love to myself, to my heart from me.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:31pm

  13. 13: CristinNo Gravatar says:

    This is just so beautiful. I feel so peaceful reading this, so hopeful. Thank you.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:41pm

  14. 14: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    (((Feminine Woman)))

    Definitely noticing that feeling come up for me too.

    And yet I noticed I got a glimpse of what Dominique talks about, spiraling up into wonderfulness earlier today.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:43pm

  15. 15: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    To answer your question: yes, I did have the Right Man report by Carol Allen and , yes, energy flows from me to him in the relationship. Which means that I will always have ideas and wants *first*, so in that sense I’ll always be the one initiating (mentally).

    Masculine and feminine energy in reverse (back to front) flow.

    Aaagh. So very frustrating, as Carol points out.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 1:43pm

  16. 16: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, He’s still there and wants to talk about things with you so I think that’s GREAT news! :)

    Does what he said make sense to you? Can you see how you could make any changes that might help? (If you want to that is.)

    How was your trip btw?

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 2:00pm

  17. 17: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – thank you

    afterwards he said “that’s it” in a resigned way – doesn’t feel good to me. Suggest a mentality of settling.

    “and then he kissed me, slow and deep and passionate and affectionate, and touching me gently” – suggests to me that there is just a little something he needs to “tip him over the edge” without which he might not be able to move forward.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 2:27pm

  18. 18: Shar Lean Way BackNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, although I can see what he is saying, it doesn’t feel good to (me). You might be ok with it. But the one thing I can see you doing is not trying to “fix” . Right..we all do it..I’m getting better. But I think cding is the way to go here. Oh my, there are so many men out there. yum
    So, as Rori would say, he is just doing what he does and you can choose. You can keep dating/seeing him and circular date. Then when he takes his alone time it’s no biggie cause your out with somone else :)

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 2:36pm

  19. 19: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah, agreed, def CD and keep dating him.

    It’s interesting cuz he’s telling you exactly what he wants. Do you see any truth in what he’s saying?…I bet you do. Its great that he can communicate so clearly. Be the cool girl here – do what he wants, be cool, and I bet you’ve got him in the palm of your hand 😉

    I remember last year, when I was panicked about my relationship, but I took RR’s advice and was an invitation (even though all I wanted to do was run away because I was so upset) and the whole thing turned on a dime. It was amazing…I’m not saying to be an invitation…I’m just saying change your behavior and you never know what might happen!

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 2:51pm

  20. 20: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    “That’s it” is what men say when they are completely done talking. They’ve said it all. They say “that’s it” or “that’s all” or words to that effect. If you hear that it’s a good sign that you have not interrupted and they have expressed everything they need to. Got that out if the queens code and its definitely true. As far as the “resigned way”– I think that is projection by the listener (Indigo).

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 3:00pm

  21. 21: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Indigo- what he said sounds honest and reasonable to me. The first thing is very understandable.

    The second thing- it sounds like he is picking up on your moods or vibe. And that you can totally change. It sounds like that’s what he needs to feel safe. He may be the type who takes a long time to feel safe and comfortable. He even said that it makes it worse when you try to fix it– fixing is masculine energy.

    It sounds like he is asking you to lean back. And with a tender touch and kiss making it clear that he cares and wants to keep seeing you.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 3:10pm

  22. 22: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    I won’t do anything, ’cause there is no man out there capable of loving me. An every time I open the door to have someone prove me wrong I get hurt and I am tired of trying, so I will not do anything and find deep within myself that love that I am missing.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 3:34pm

  23. 23: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “I’ve spent my life, then, trying to be loved – when, I could so much more easily believe I’m already loved, and that I don’t have to DO anything to “make that happen.”

    I need do nothing.

    Phew. Long, relaxing outbreath……

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:12pm

  24. 24: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “…And sometimes we can talk and work it out – because it’s a good match. And sometimes – it just isn’t. There’s too much work.”

    Hmm. Feeling my way through this one.
    Constant misunderstandings with WM feels like too much work.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:14pm

  25. 25: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Are you someone who ‘hangs on’ rather than ‘moves on’?

    I’m definitely a hanger-onner!

    Persistently waiting/hoping/trying for improvement or simply putting up with a relationship that doesn’t feel right.
    Long past the time I could have moved on.

    This was confirmed recently as a feature in my Vedic astrology chart.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:18pm

  26. 26: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    “Thats it”.

    I LOVE that. If anyone has read the queens code, this is PERFECT AND EXACTLY what men do. They say everything they have to say and then say literally “Thats it.” I’ve had men do that too. The problem is that usually women interrupt them before they get to that point – I think its AWESOME. It means that that is all there is you dont need to think that there is anything more – you have ALL the information you need ot make a decision.

    I love that you decided to take time to think about it Indigo!! Great move.

    Frankly, GS said very similar things to me. I think this is who he is. I think he wants to be with you but he also needs to have his own independent alone time. You have to decide if thats ok with you – if it is, then stay with him. If not…..then find someone more matched to you! :)

    I think its awesome that he has a ton of ability to communicate what he wants. I just dont see that this is a bad thing at all – you totally know what he wants now and hte fact that he kissed you means he still wants to be in this with you – typically men never do anything they dont want to. :)

    This would have been a perfect time for him to bail – you were gone, it was a perfect break up time. He did not choose to take the exit ramp……its a perfect opportunity to grow together by allowing each other the space to do with what you need.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:51pm

  27. 27: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena, have you done any of Dr. Margaret Paul’s programs by any chance?

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:54pm

  28. 28: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    This post is deep, almost esoteric. I look forward to the “tools” Rori mentions to understand it better.

    And per update, I’m at 6.5 months in practicing the Rori tools. Things just keep getting juicier and better with my BF of one year.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 4:58pm

  29. 29: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – well…what exactly does he want..a committed relationship?
    I think it’s awesome how he opened up…good for all of us to read.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 5:06pm

  30. 30: Miss BellsNo Gravatar says:

    HS is back from Europe and it is very comfortable. He says he thought about me a lot–wished I had come with. This is a big breakthrough.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 5:27pm

  31. 31: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Aw, Rori, I love what you wrote here! Thank you. <3

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 6:04pm

  32. 32: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Just venting how I feel. Today GS and I spoke a lot – about work, etc. He helped me with some other things. It was nice. But then I was reminded that we had decided that we were not going to text in the evenings and weekends. That was jarring to hear again. I think I had started after yesterday to start to slip back into loving him, wanting him, forgetting that we had made this arrangement or whatever to wait. It sure didnt feel like waiting to me, it felt comfortable, familiar, and the probalme is that I know that it isnt, so I need to dial this back I think.

    I dont know what that means. Maybe no contact? Or limited work contact? I dont know.

    I am just trying to go through this the best way for me.

    Please remember I have a lunch date later this week, so I am circular dating now. Its just hard because I sort of got to the point where I depended on him to help me around the house and depended on him emotionally.

    I miss being able to text him with things etc. I miss just knowing he was always there to text etc. I feel a definite void.

    Again, if he cant be there for me, then he cant, and I dont want to make him.

    I’m just sort of FEELING these FEELINGS.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 6:05pm

  33. 33: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I’m gonna try to post again, maybe comments were not working earlier…

    I really like this post too. It feels authentic and real.

    I feel big shift now not focusing on men or dating. I think listening to Rori’s two Love Scripts video programs was very helpful. Then I vented in feeling messages a bunch of things I needed to say. Then a little time passed and something shifted. I feel happier having my energy back on me.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 7:07pm

  34. 34: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Just subscribing to this new thread.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 7:58pm

  35. 35: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Prplpsn – how are you?

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 8:10pm

  36. 36: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Hi Elsie :) I’m doing ok. Been reading all of the posts and taking it all in.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 8:15pm

  37. 37: ViNo Gravatar says:

    smokescreen! – this is how I’ve been feeling about my anger lately….

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 8:22pm

  38. 38: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Hi ladies

    Thank you for all of your marvelous feedback.

    When I think about it, it was his suggestion that I take tonight to think about what he said, and how great a suggestion that was. I agree with what some of you have said that there was no reason for him to kiss me like that, or even see me, unless he was still in this with me a little bit. That said, I could sense a hesitancy, he actually said to me “I’m afraid of getting hurt again.”

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:39pm

  39. 39: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light,

    It is great I guess and it does make sense, and I can feel within myself that there is some truth to it. I could certainly make changes that would allow him to feel more comfortable. And I think you’re right, changing my behavior could change everything.

    Now that you girls have mentioned it, I do feel grateful that he can communicate so clearly.

    Thank you for your thoughtful post :)

    My trip was just so wonderful, I fell in love with Ireland and I can’t wait to go back. Yet, I’m glad to be home, it was good to hug my family :)


    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:45pm

  40. 40: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Feminine Woman

    “suggests to me that there is just a little something he needs to “tip him over the edge” without which he might not be able to move forward.”

    Yes, I feel that too. It is what I spent half the night thinking about. What is the change I could make right now that would have the biggest effect?

    Thank you

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:47pm

  41. 41: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Shar Lean Way Back,

    You are right of course, in that it needs not to be a biggie when he takes his alone time. I circular dated extensively the times before when the lines were a little blurred with him, and so I think I need to experiment this time with doing it a different way, in a way that feels really good to me.

    Thank you x

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:50pm

  42. 42: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wild Geranium & Elsie,

    Yes, I got that “that’s it” meant he had nothing more to say. I deliberately said very little, to give him the maximum chance to say everything that was on his heart, and I feel glad I did that. I realize “that’s it” can sound a little blunt to us women, but I truly agree with both of you, I feel it was just his way of indicating that he had stopped talking.

    He did actually specifically say he felt a bit resigned, and afraid of getting hurt. I could sense the hesitancy in him. Yet I just noticed this, I wasn’t necessarily triggered by it.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:54pm

  43. 43: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wild Geranium #21

    Your post was very insightful, thank you very much :)

    “He may be the type who takes a long time to feel safe and comfortable. He even said that it makes it worse when you try to fix it– fixing is masculine energy.” Yes, yes. He even said as much.

    This would all be about me allowing him to feel safe.

    The kiss took me a little by surprise, which was why it was so lovely.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 9:57pm

  44. 44: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 8- What he said sounds really positive and do-able. I can understand the pressure he might feel about having planned to do something and then also asking you to leave. For me personally, I know if the person I’m with gets that I have to do those other things that I planned and lets me do those things, then I feel more open and relaxed when I’m spending time with them.

    I would feel that this is so do-able if this was said to me. I would see a man who wants to be doing all the masculine things and knows how HE does that best. I would see a man who also has a lot of care for this relationship. It’s quite beautiful, I love it when men are expressive with their caring like that. And the gentleness that I feel called from me by his vulnerability. (just my opinion – I feel like clapping for you Indigo because this seems so positive)

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:11pm

  45. 45: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I had a dream about BM last night. It was beautiful – we were in this huge public garden type area and were enjoying exploring the more private quiet spaces. It was very sensual – my dreams can be quite vivid where I feel like my senses are involved – and I could feel the cold water and the texture of the pond bed as we walked barefoot in a shallow pond. It was such a good experience and it felt so good to be with him again. I miss him. And that’s okay. I wanted so much to dream about him and have his presence near me – thank you body for making that happen. I just really needed that yesterday.

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:20pm

  46. 46: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Thank you very much for the support, and I also couldn’t help seeing the similarity between our two men.

    I feel good that I gave him the full opportunity to talk and that I took time to think about what he’d said. I agree that we can grow together, the “how” of this is unfolding slowly, little by little I get another little piece of the puzzle.

    Thank you for your supportive words, I agree he would not have kissed me had he not wanted to, nor would he have asked to see me and talk to me, because by the time I got back from my trip I was truly ok with not seeing him. I was ready to let him go at that point.

    I realize how great it is in a way that he’s able to articulate and communicate these things, how lucky that is for me.


    Also Elsie, regarding GS, I think it’s totally normal to feel like things are not what they are, like you aren’t *really* on pause, because he still cares for you.

    But you are going about this in exactly the right way; the journey to your innermost being and happiness is where you need to be right now, whatever this looks like in terms of CDing or taking care of yourself.


    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:42pm

  47. 47: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Heart 29

    Thank you so much :) I knew that I wanted to share this with all of you, and I hope someone can get something out of it.

    Yes, an exclusive, committed relationship is what he was talking about – I had to clarify that with him, because it wasn’t immediately clear.

    But he is afraid… afraid of being hurt, afraid of things not working out. This would need to be approached carefully and thoughtfully, if things do go ahead.


    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:45pm

  48. 48: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Veronica

    Thanks for your gentle and thoughtful response.

    I too felt an overwhelming sense of positivity from his words, even as I saw the fear in him. Taking the time and care to articulate all of that, you are right, was not lost on me. A part of me was blown away, and I felt in his own way, how he actually honours our connection, even though it is not always expressed as I need. His quiet and sure masculine energy is definitely what attracts me most. Thank you for affirming this for me.

    I agree these things are doable, especially now that I feel so filled up from my trip. I want what he has asked for so much for myself, and I want to do it in a quiet, no-fuss kind of way. Will you guys help? I couldn’t wait to share this with all of you, since I know some of you will have great suggestions on how to give a guy his boundaries like this in a lovely, no-drama kind of way.

    Thank you Veronica xxx

    Wednesday, 10 July 2013 @ 11:52pm

  49. 49: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Sigh….I feel like I’m never going to “get” relationships. Am I ever going to “get it?”….

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:41am

  50. 50: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Wow this is an amazing post – I love what Rori says about creating an environment that lets love grow (with everyone) and letting people love in there own way – the whole article feels really relaxing – one big sigh of relief – i love how she talks about going round plugging up the leaks as well and catching whatever love you can – i can relate to that how exhausting like some computer games and the levels just keep getting harder and harder with more and more leaks and you can never actually do it

    i’ve noticed myself become all advicy recently – yuk – i don’t like it – i’m going to start bringing some awareness to that and zipping my mouth and leaning in to intimacy that isn’t necessarily there and that feels yuk too – here’s a long yawn and stretch and arch of the back and lean right back

    Indigo – I love the space that you have created for you both – it feels very peaceful to have heard him and to have then been able to leave it at that whilst you think and process

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:27am

  51. 51: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    mmmm my picture is there as it connects to other sites – is there anyway to just change your picture on this site? I may feel worried about anyone I knew reading the things I say…

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:29am

  52. 52: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Thank you. That was how I felt. I hope I can live up to your compliment.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:59am

  53. 53: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for this post, Rori :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 3:01am

  54. 54: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 38 – “I’m afraid of getting hurt again.”

    This might be something to look at within yourself.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 4:59am

  55. 55: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 48 – And here is where loving and appreciating not only him and what he’s offering you but also each and every moment which feels good with him comes in. In this you can learn to feel that whatever is there feels amazing and feels enough.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 5:04am

  56. 56: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Where is the Stop Chasing him article?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 5:51am

  57. 57: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    1. 348: Rori Raye says:
    mayflower -Welcome – and the only thing for you to work on is yourself. You say here that you basically have no self-discipline, no impulse-control, do not have control over yourself in any way. You are behaving as a addicted “junkie” would behave by lunging for this man. Also, you have been habituated by your past to want what you can’t have and disregard what loves you. This is what CDing is for – to give you real-life experiences with real men to work through your “stuff” – to learn to appreciate and open up to ONLY men who want you, and to hang back and lean back at ALL times, and NEVER try to “make something happen” that isn’t already happening. We’ll help you. Please start with the ebook and work through ALL the basic Tools 24/7 – then move on to the other programs. Love, Rori


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:23am

  58. 58: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    From your above post:

    “..to learn to appreciate and open up to ONLY men who want you,…”

    not to all men? I feel puzzled

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:32am

  59. 59: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 48 – I find it quite beautiful – you have your need, and he fulfils that need in HIS best way, he doesn’t disregard your need. But I wonder if it didn’t happen that way with men who love us, if we may stop looking or noticing him, how our attention to him revealing and giving might be diminished. Maybe that insistence on HIM changes later on, I don’t know.

    It was very touching to hear a man’s perspective otherwise all this inner work starts to feel ‘abstract’. Thank you so much for sharing.

    I don’t have a lot of experience. I feel nervous about helping or suggesting. I hope the every experienced sirens here will help you.

    I am reminded by what you’re saying of when BM asked to have his own time. I was struggling with that because initially it felt like less time together. I had to trust. What happened though was that after quite a while I noticed he came back with more of himself, as though he was a free agent who could now choose to be with me more often. I wish I had a better attitude about it then. Maybe I can now think of it as rejuvenation or regeneration time, for both partners.

    This moment you have/had feels so precious.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:57am

  60. 60: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose it is in the context of chasing a man. The way I understood it is “focus” on opening to these men and take the focus off chasing the unavailable man.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:22am

  61. 61: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    This post has been so very helpful in ways I feel from the moment I read it…………… to my dreams last night……………….. to who knows where it will go in the future. Thank you Rori.

    I dreamt of my Grammy laast night and woke up with a very light heart. And a smile. I love you grammy, thank you for visiting.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:10am

  62. 62: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    I can hardly believe what I read in the post!!! This post could not have come at a more perfect time for me !!

    I have been feeling so…. small and ill-equipped.
    I have been feeling so… off balance
    I have been feeling so… anxiety filled
    I have been feeling so… homesick

    My perception of the current relationship I am in feels like it driven by expectation and is full of “doing”…
    I am constantanly falling short and now I dont even want to try. It feels Really BAD.

    I started out “being” and it got sidelined by working and doing, which has mostly been fueld by energy from FavoriteCD. No wonder I am feeling so off.

    My grandson is such a refreshing joy and gift in my life. I love that little guy with all my heart…and he has not had to “do” one single thing for him to have such a place in my heart. He does not behave in any certain way he just “is”. He is a love sponge.

    I get it!….

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:23am

  63. 63: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    This newsletter came at the right time. I recently found out I was in a Friends with Benefits relationship with the man I was seeing for six years. I did not listen to what he was trying to tell me cause when we first met he asked if I wanted to be “close friends.” Few months ago I asked where we were headed and he said we were FWB and he loved me as a best friend. He said he was not ready. He did not want to do the relationship thing dates and all.

    Another thing he is married but tells me he has not divorced cause it cost money he does not have. I know he has not lived with his wife since I met him. But he did have a lady friend when I met him which he tells me that nothing is going on with her. Now I don’t believe him cause I seen him with her twice and he tells me he is still not doing anything with her. I ask why he is with her then and he tells me its just for a liquor run. He has his own car.

    I gave him money, bought stuff he needed, drove to him, asked him to concerts which he went to one, etc. All wrong things to do after finding rori. I stopped doing that since. I dont text him or call him but my mistake is when he text and wants to see me I am there. Another mistake.

    I told him a few days ago that I do not want to see him anymore cause we were not going anywhere and I clearly see his choice of who he wants to spend time with. I have not heard from him since.

    He texts and tells me he loves me but I know he doesn’t love me as someone he would want to be with in the future. I don’t think he will step up cause we were just FWB and he does still see and hang out with the other lady. I just wonder why he didn’t love me but I know from RORI’s newsletter that I did everything wrong and he will always see me as a friend cause I put myself there. Feeling lonely now and feel that anything was better than this. At least I had someone even though it was nothing!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:29am

  64. 64: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Indigo – it sounds like you are in an awesome place with yourself and him.

    I feel tethered today.

    I feel tethered to him, and do not want to be. I went over to give him something to say thank you for ALL the hard work he did for me a few days ago. And ended up staying and talking for an hour and a half. Ugh. My energy shifted and I feel not free. I feel that he will never be able to crave me or miss me if I am always there. But I am afraid that if I let go of this connection that he will just drift off……and then never come back. I am afraid that what I want will not show up for me. Not afraid….concerned. I feel that I still give to him everything he needs, but the piercing words come back to haunt me that he gets everything he needs from me at work, and does not crave me at night. Every time I think of those words. Ouch.

    I feel tethered.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:32am

  65. 65: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Hi ladies,

    I’ve been off this site for quite a while since I have moved on from a toxic booty call man to an amazing guy I have been dating for 3 months now. :)

    He is great and I have gotten more from him in the 3 months we have been together than with the other guy whom i was with for 2 years.

    He is affectionate, takes care of me, even cooks for me every weekend. We spend all weekend together most of the time and as well we will go on a date one day during the week or so.

    However, I would like some advice …
    Last weekend we spent 4 days together and now he has withdrawn! I haven’t heard from him in 3 going on 4 days today. He has been contacting me daily before this. Although after our weekends he can sometimes seem to avoid contacting me for a couple days or so and we have gone through boughts of I call and he doesn’t answer and then he calls repeatedly and I dont answer which is very very frustrating. This is the only issue that I have at this point in time. I have panicked before and made it known that I was panicking and he made it up to me with an amazing night together and calling everyday and answering my text message (even though he hates texting). but I am so insecure that I need that constant contact to know he is around for me. Even though, I know he is I feel afraid that I will lose him.This stems from my past relationship for sure.

    I am guessing that he is feeling this energy. I know that I should give him his time and space alone but at the same time I want to be with him and receive his affection.

    Anyways, I did message him this morning that I would call him later tonight (since he did not reply to my message last night). I think I need to tell him that his not replying makes me feel ignored and worried and insecure.
    See I mostly afraid that if I let him get away with “bad” behaviour he will try to get away with more and more like the other guy but at the same time I dont want to reprimand him like a child!

    I have no idea what to do to be able to make myself feel better.

    Please share your advice with me,
    Much love Arabian

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:11am

  66. 66: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been super busy and have a lot of catching up to do but I read the post and the comments on this thread.

    Elsie: If you act like just a friend you will always be just a friend. I know you don’t know if “no contact” is best for you or not but I can pretty much assure you, all contact is considered “friend zone contact” in his eyes right now and as long as you fulfill that friend stuff, you will remain a friend.

    And please…no more friendly gifts to say thank you. Lots of people do lots of things for me consistently and a simple “thank you” is generally enough. Most people don’t expect “things” for helping out. The gift feels like an excuse to talk to him (unless you give gifts to everyone who helps you). Even if that isn’t what you meant by it, it’s probably what he believes you meant by it.

    And if he does “drift off” if you stop rowing then I would ask you to ponder the question “Do I really want a man who will drift off just because I won’t play the ‘we’re just friends’ game with him? Or do I want a man who will chase me down because he misses me so much he can’t take being apart?”

    Please rethink no contact and consider applying it. You are being the sweetest friend ever to him and I think you are pushing your way toward cementing yourself in that role forever…

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:12am

  67. 67: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    “Or do I want a man who will chase me down because he misses me so much he can’t take being apart?”
    Yes please, I’ll take two, thank you very much :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  68. 68: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes. I think you are 100% right. Now that I read your post, I think you are sooooo right.

    I do not want a man who will drift off and not crave me and love me and want to be with me because I’m not there for him. Frankly, I’m fussy, because he is taking this time AGAIN for himself, and once again, MY NEEDS are not being met. I’m really exhausted of meeting everyone elses needs and not my own.

    The problem is I’m not sure what my needs 100% are. I do know this – I dont want to be just his friend. At least not now. If things dont work out between us in the very very end (year/years from now) I could see myself being friends with him again maybe but not now…..although being friends with him seems so comfortable.

    I have to have contact because of work related issues. (And its SOOO HARD because he HELPS me with things and without a man, I do need help with things, I’m sorry but I do – around the house etc.) I am going to have to figure those things out.

    Anyway – the point is that I am going to pull away a bit and see how that feels. Both today, tomorrow and next week – (I guess we arent talking on weekends anymore….sigh.) So I will pull away and see how that feels. I dont think because of work I can do absolutely no contact, but I can come close.

    Thanks Mercedes. Thank you……


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  69. 69: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Arabian – Please read “Attached”. You seem to have anxious attachment style (I have it too…..) Let this man be. Its only been 4 days…….many books talk about how men pull back after very intimate times together. They need a change to regroup after being so close…..its in TONS of books.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:21am

  70. 70: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – you will be happy to know (I feel like you are my dating guru lol…..) that CollegeCD texted me a few days ago and ended it on a note where he was just talking about my computer, and I didnt feel a need to add anything, so I didnt answer. I thought the convo was over. So then a day went by and he texted me “Did you get my last text?” LOL. Iwas like, yes, thank you again for all your help. Then he asked me out for lunch on Thursday, but I said Friday would work better for me. So, he actually is trying to MOVE his whole schedule around (He was originally going to take Friday off work) to spend lunch with me tomorrow. We’ll see if it happens. :) But I think it will.

    Anyway – the point is I’m leaning way back. I like the feeling of being chased. Frankly, now that I think of it – GS could never chase me if I keep standing in front of him. LOL.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  71. 71: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: Every time you think about how hard it will be to not be his friend or not have him for a friend to you, think about the word “just”. Add it to the word “friend”:

    I’m just a friend.
    We’re just friends.

    That’s not what you want and because it’s not what you want, you are accepting crumbs (or less) from him and you’re still giving him all that friendship.

    You might “need” a man around the house (but I’m guessing not as much as you think. I lived alone for years and managed) but you don’t necessarily need GS around the house. You will figure it out. GS is an excuse. Needs around the house are an excuse. These excuses are not bringing him closer to you…not at all.

    Ok…I have to go. Elsie…don’t be just friends with him. Not even for a while. You want more than that. Go out there and get it. But the only way you’ll do that is if you stop being just friends with the man you are currently in love with.

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:26am

  72. 72: DeniseNo Gravatar says:

    How do I post to ask for advice? Please.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:30am

  73. 73: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Malene – Welcome – and please see this as a tremendous learning experience! Now – this will NEVER happen to you again! You know your worth, and what you want…Love, Rori

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:30am

  74. 74: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – You are right. 100% right. I thought yesterday about everything, and I thought about how much it pained me that at the end of the day he said he does not crave seeing me at night or on the weekend. Seriously – ouch.

    Yes, I am JUST a friend right now, even though he loves me and even though he is attracted to me, he is JUST my friend, and I am JUST his friend.

    GS is an excuse (and also frankly, it was always so convenient to call him to help because he always helped me…..) But you are right – they are not bringing him closer to me. At all. IN FACT, he gets to feel like a hero, and like he is taking care of me, which just fulfills HIM, not me.

    JUST. Its such a little word. But it changes everything.

    Thank you Mercedes. Seriously – thank you.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:30am

  75. 75: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Denise – Ask on the most recent comment – just the way you did here. Welcome! Love, Rori

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:31am

  76. 76: DeniseNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Rori! Ok guys. I have been married for almost 5 years. My husband and I have 4 kids, 2 which are his. He recently moved out in March. I am still in the house hoping we can reconcile. He moved because of me. I was horrble to him. I was holding on to anger from when we first met. He says he loves me and the kids but he doesn’t believe I will change. We have not yet filed for divorce. I want him to come home so we can be a family. I started reading all your books and blogs and feel I’m figuring alot of things out I didn’t understand. But I am at a point where I am ready to tell him either come home or file for divorce. Please help!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:37am

  77. 77: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “You are being the sweetest friend ever to him and I think you are pushing your way toward cementing yourself in that role forever.”

    Elsie, I know you always listen to Mercedes, so please….listen to Mercedes here! lol

    I don’t think its realistic to do complete no contact with GS since you work together. But I do think that you can *not initiate* any contact and when you do come into contact with him keep it all business (friendly but business).

    As long as you keep doing what you’re doing there will be absolutely no motivation for him to move forward romantically. He can’t miss you.

    Go back and review what Rori lists as the ways that we lean forward– its in actions and its in our own thinking.

    You want to make GS wonder what is going on with you. What you are doing right now is letting him know you are O.K. with the way things are. He will never wonder or want to move forward if he can’t miss you and can’t wonder what is going on with you. And, you don’t want to settle for anything less from him than him stepping up to give you what you want–which is dates and contact and a romantic relationship *outside of work*.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:38am

  78. 78: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    What I wouldn’t give for a time machine to go back in time and give myself the advice Elsie is getting from Mercedes 2 years ago…
    I doubt seriously that C and I would be together, and, I probably wouldn’t be picking the bloody shards of my heart out of the C shredder 2 years later.

    Live and learn :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:44am

  79. 79: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    I saw a friend last night whom I hadn’t seen in over a year. She had been in a really bad, unhealthy relationship with a toxic man. That finally ended last year, thank goodness! Last night, she told me she and her new boyfriend just bought a house together and are planning to get married. This all happened within 8 months! It is so inspiring!!! When its right and feels good, it can happen so quickly!!!! Woohooo!!! There is still hope for me! YES!!!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:44am

  80. 80: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I have to be grateful for the experience, though, it has definitely made me a stronger woman, and brought me out of myself when I was totally depleted and broken down.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:45am

  81. 81: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    “But he is afraid… afraid of being hurt, afraid of things not working out. This would need to be approached carefully and thoughtfully, if things do go ahead.”

    Indigo, think about this…why is he afraid of being hurt? why is he afraid of things not working out? Have you ever felt like that? and, why did you feel like that?

    I ask myself those questions and the answer often is because I am becoming attached to someone, I’m falling in love, I’m really starting to care deeply….Its not *bad* its just scary….intimacy is scary…. but sometimes we need the fear to make us realize that we are going somewhere good. The trick is to breathe and relax into the fear and discomfort and not do what we always do which is to either grasp for *more* or run away…. That is being in the moment and being open to just this moment. I love the waterwheel tool for the feeling of scary/fear. Breathe and imagine all the love pouring toward you.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:51am

  82. 82: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – I feel very hopeful for you…I feel a littl jealous too. I’m glad things are working out.
    Maybe you could give D that MenAreFromMars book….let him know your happy to give him his space but that some reassurance that he’s coming back is all you really need.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:03am

  83. 83: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I do nothing. I tend a place in myself for love to grow. Who am I living for? Thank you Rori!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:07am

  84. 84: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Veronica & Elsie,

    I’m not so sure. Things are very tentative and we are still on very shaky ground. I do notice a difference in how I feel though, which is about one THOUSAND times better than in the past. All the yuck stuff seems to be gone.

    Veronica, I loved what you said in #59. Men are so much more complex than we perhaps think, or at least, there is so much more to them. I feel very glad for you that you had this realization, and I hope you tuck it away in your heart and feel good about it. We don’t know these things until we know them.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:15am

  85. 85: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    @11 FW those are strong words. (hugs)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:17am

  86. 86: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Beautiful post, Wild Geranium.

    I think he is afraid of being hurt because… he is afraid. He is afraid of things falling apart and things ending, when he has opened up to me again. Or at least, this is just what I am surmising.

    He is also afraid of the pain he feels when he is angry, tense or uncomfortable. This he told me. He does not want to feel that way, and needs me to let him withdraw to deal with any unpleasant feelings and get rid of them in his own way. He fears feeling bad, and he fears fights, which I am absolutely determined to avoid.

    I love what you had to say about intimacy. I can feel I am ready for this journey. I can only hope my being ready means he comes along, little by little.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:19am

  87. 87: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Thanks for having faith in me 😉

    Don’t feel jealous! I have no idea what I am doing!

    I am feeling my way through this, and it feels good, and I cannot explain that at all, because I am not thinking at all, because all my thoughts turn to dust.

    I feel incredibly good all throughout my body, and my heart seems to be filled with this blooming sensation that soars. The love in fact came pouring out in tears today, but they were good tears. And my heart seems to have faith in him, and I have no idea why.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:22am

  88. 88: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Also, Heart yes

    “let him know your happy to give him his space but that some reassurance that he’s coming back is all you really need.”

    I am experimenting with this.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:24am

  89. 89: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Denise 76

    I know Rori has some great posts dealing with exactly this situation. There have been several sirens over the years it seems who have dealt with this.

    May I ask, why do you want him to come back? Do you love him? What do you love about him?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:25am

  90. 90: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – All of his fears seem pretty normal. It’s good that he’s afraid….it means he’s risking something..

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:25am

  91. 91: DeniseNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo 89

    Thank you for reading my post. Yes I do love him very much. He’s a good guy, he’s a good dad, and out of all my relations he is the only man I ever really loved. He’s smart and he works hard.

    I was trying to find a post to relate to my situation but I guess I wasn’t looking in the right place. Thanks again.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:30am

  92. 92: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Denise

    If you go to Post Directory for Rori’s Blog on the right hand side, nearer the top of the page, if you look under category “Break-up and Divorce” you will find many articles relevant to your situation, I think.

    From where I stand there are many ways you could turn this around, perhaps by starting to appreciate the things that you love about him? Also, I think it’s a given that you would need to look deep within to find out where the angry behavior he is talking about is coming from. This will need to change to something much softer and less blaming, but we sirens here talk about our own healing all the time, so we’ll help you! :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:41am

  93. 93: DeniseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Indigo,

    I will research that as soon as I get home. As far as my anger, I have no clue where it’s stems from. But since he moved I try to appreciate the reasons why I love him and show him that as well. But as soon as we argue he throws things back at me and that hurts. Then I get denfensive and then my nasy voice takes over. I feel he’s not trying to give me a chance to change. Since reading Rori’s books, I’ve changed the way I speak and act towards him. The next step is to tell him I am drawing the line with this separation. Although, I do tend to forget the blaming or attacking him step but I am working on it. 😉

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:53am

  94. 94: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Malene – 63 – I responded to you on the other thread you originally posted on. Here it is –

    Malene – I’m sorry you are feeling so bad. Yet he’s been upfront with you all along. He has said he loves you as a FWB, and this is all you are right now and maybe for always. You are not exclusive, so your choices are – is this enough? if so then what you have between you will likely be status quo, and you will need to accept this, no expectations of anything else.

    If it isn’t enough which from what you say here it isn’t, then you need to move on. If nothing else, start circular dating. You can keep him in your rotations if you wish, yet if it’s too painful, then cut all ties with him altogether.

    Sending love.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:00am

  95. 95: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @WildGeranium: THANK YOU. I am taking your advice too. I will NOT initiate ANY contact, and when I do, it will be all business.

    I think he ordered me a gift for my working out (something I really want) because I got a clue from something he said. If it comes in next week or whenever, I will accept it and say thank you but WILL NOT GUSH etc.

    You said “As long as you keep doing what you’re doing there will be absolutely no motivation for him to move forward romantically. He can’t miss you.” BINGO. yes. yes yes.

    You also said, “You want to make GS wonder what is going on with you. What you are doing right now is letting him know you are O.K. with the way things are. He will never wonder or want to move forward if he can’t miss you and can’t wonder what is going on with you. And, you don’t want to settle for anything less from him than him stepping up to give you what you want–which is dates and contact and a romantic relationship *outside of work*.” YES YES YES. 100% YES.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:03am

  96. 96: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique 54

    Thank you for your response to me. I am definitely afraid of getting hurt again.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:04am

  97. 97: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @BeLoved. Dont we all wish we had a time machine? I would go back 10 years and do things differently. At least the last 5 for sure. (hugs)

    @Denise – I’m not sure how long the problems have been going on – but allow him this space. Our tendency as women is to want a “quick fix” – dont fall prey to that. This is a marriage and if you think it can be fixed, and he is going to work towards it, then give him time and then give him more while you work on yourself. We are all here for you :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:05am

  98. 98: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    @ 65 ArabianLove…

    I have this EXACT experience…

    Actually Dominique has written some articles on her website that helped me with my internal attitudes, thoughts, expectations etc. anxiety…. the things you posted about. SPecifically the article on “your non-communicative man”…. Light Bulb MOMENT for me! Also dropping expectations brought lots of good surprises my way. Receiving what a man decides and chooses to bring me feels soo much better than telling him what I expect or want . One attitude breeds freedom the other way reinforces our insecurities and blocks healing.

    CLick on her name from a post on here and it will beam you to her site!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:06am

  99. 99: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique 55

    I have really, really started to integrate this concept into my life, and I have you to thank for it.

    It feels amazing.

    What is wonderful feels even more wonderful, and the not-so-great stuff fades more and more. Gradually, but it does fade.

    Truly do love your work. xx

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:06am

  100. 100: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rori for your comment. But what if he contacts me again? He always says he loves me and misses me. When I ask about the other lady I seen him with, he says its nothing. He doesn’t do anything with her. I want to believe him cause he tells me that is his cousin or niece can’t recall. At one time his daughter told me they were together and she was crazy calling him all the time. When I started seeing him his phone would ring and he wouldn’t answer. I would ask is that her and he would not answer my question. He avoids all questions regarding her. Should that tell me something? He says he doesn’t answer the questions cause he is not with her.

    I also recently found out that he was texting another lady, not sure if its the same one. He sent me a message and attached the song “Be your everything” He was sending good morning/night messages to ten other numbers which I found out about and asked him. He says they are just his women friends. He then sent me and someone else a message and attached the song Be your everything to it. I questioned him and he told me it was just a friend and not a big deal. It was just a song. It is so frustrating and I feel so angry but he just blows things off as nothing but to me its something.

    I guess I consented to the FWB relationship when I went back to see him. Now I feel angry and upset. I told him I was not happy and was not excited to hear from him anymore cause it is always a want to have sex text. Not want to spend time with you kind of text. Yet I miss him and I feel lonely after I told him I did not want to be in the FWB anymore.

    I read your newsletter and know what to do but it is so hard to do. I know that if a guy is seeing other women than walk away cause he is not suppose too. it means you are not his choice. If you want to be more than friends say NO to friends with benefits and do this, no contact, no being nice, ect. So do I just ignore his text and not text him back cause that just feels rude to me. Please help me. Know what my relationship is but too difficult to accept and walk away even though I did. I want to go back to what we had Nothing but it feels like it was something now that he is not texting me.

    I cry but then tell myself “why are you crying, you didn’t have anything with him. No movie nights, date nights, dinner nights, weekends, family nights, etc. Nothing!” But it still hurts. I cant tell him he hurt me cause that would make it about him and I don’t want him to have the power! I WANT TO GET MY POWER BACK and set my boundaries that I am no longer a booty call for him! If he wants me then he has to step up but I feel like he wont! I think that is what hurts me and makes me cry! Sorry I am feel like venting but need some feedback on this situation. If anyone has gone through this type of relationship, please advise. I need it! thanks.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:10am

  101. 101: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    This way of talking doesn’t come overnight.

    You may well find though that when you are able to touch your anger and bring it up for healing, and working on and loving yourself, that stopping the blaming/attacking talk comes almost naturally.

    Love to you. Like Elsie said, we are all here for you.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:10am

  102. 102: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique….thank you. I know he has been upfront but I guess I was like Rori in the beginning thinking that I can change his feelings about me. But its been so many years that I feel now I have to move on.

    Keep him in my rotation? Is that saying date him along with other men? I don’t think that will work cause this is his words “You want a relationship? Relationship like dates, going out? don’t want that right now. Friends with benefits is what we is with no attachments, if you understand what I mean!”

    After seeing him with her just made me realize I will not be the one he wants to spend time with. I told him he can be her since he is always with her and he has made his choice and perference known. But I don’t know if like he says, nothing going on. He says I am always assuming and he continues explaining but I don’t believe him. Confusing!

    I get that he loves me as a best friend and nothing more but wish for more. I know rori says once you are put in the friend category you will always be there!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:27am

  103. 103: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique….another thing, if i should decide to continue being FWBs and accepting it, what would i get out of it. Just sex and that is not enough for me. I want someone to love me, accept my family, do things with me, be there for me, everything about me not just sexually want me.

    I feel like he is the last man on earth and I can’t get anyone else. I know that is not the way to think but that is how I feel. Would that be enough to just go along with being FWBs? I don’t know.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:33am

  104. 104: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Malene – it is very clear from your messages you do NOT want FWB. Brace yourself for what I’m going to say to you. That is what you are right now. Just like I have to deal with the fact that I have been placed in the friend zone with GS, you have been placed in the FWB zone. You can NOT do anything to get out of this zone by being nice, friendly, accomodating, etc.

    My opinion is that you should completely go no contact with this guy. He is not there for you, accepting your family, doing things with you, being there for you. He is sending you the same sappy love song as a bunch of other girls. He isnt even original. :)

    He is NOT the last man on Earth. And if he was, who cares? Would you want this? It sounds like no.

    Please listen to what all these girls on here are saying and start reading Rori Raye and Christian Carter – PLEASE. Please. PLEASE. And do no contact immediately. You can give him the “girlfriend speech” that Rori has – do you know it?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  105. 105: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Doesn’t my post #79 give you all hope and encouragement? If my friend can do it (go from Mr. Toxic to Mr. Wonderful in under a year) then we can too! We all need some encouragement in our journey…I know I could really use some right now, please!!!! :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:49am

  106. 106: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Arabian – this is the 3 month mark. He is evaluating you, the relationship and wondering if he wants to continue is what I would assume. The days together can fill up guys love tank for a while. I also imagine he might be wondering how you will react when difficult times come up in the future. Consider that he would want to know that you can stand on your own two feet should something happen to him. This is one test I consider men use at times to see if our emotions spiral out of control.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:01pm

  107. 107: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Ohhhh I am so questioning myself right now.
    I chose to sit with someone at lunch who is friendly to me, I had *no* idea what C was doing, he’s left all week, and I didn’t want to sit there feeling lonely, I wanted to hang with someone who actually talks to me.
    But C stayed for lunch, when he sat down (gawd this feel soooo high school…arrested development much? lol) I couldn’t even look at him. I felt so much fear grip me. I didn’t think it felt very good to him either, someone asked him if he was ok.
    It felt really GOOD to talk to D, have a conversation about something interesting to me,
    I felt frozen, like, I couldn’t just be casual with C so I just sank into what I was feeling and did the best I could.
    Went into the bathroom after for another meltdown and a few rounds of EFT on “I CARE…I CARE…I CARE…! I REALLY REALLY CARE! AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO”.

    I have to wonder if this is really necessary? IDK WTF we are doing…and is there a way out of this that isn’t going to keep ripping my heart to pieces?
    I don’t think I could even talk to him without going infantile and crying and blubbering like a baby and I don’t want to do that, it feels humiliating and Not Helpful, it’s like going to the person who keeps triggering me for comfort…

    I keep coming back to my mantra – God is the love in which I forgive –
    and I have to wonder – am I doing the right thing?
    I definitely don’t want to be this guy’s friend.
    If I get real honest about it, I don’t truthfully want anything more, I don’t trust him and he even treats his friends kind of bad – I’ve heard K, who is super close with him, “with friends like you, who needs enemies?”
    It’s just triggered this feeling of waaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnntttttttttttttinnnnnnnnnggggggg
    sink back into the body
    ok ok yes it’s ok i think.

    your thoughts?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:15pm

  108. 108: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    haha oh man and then moments of clarity of “it’s perfect, it’s perfect, it’s all ok.”
    I just want to get to a place where I can feel strong before talking to him again.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:20pm

  109. 109: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved – you said….it’s like going to the person who keeps triggering me for comfort…and you said……I definitely don’t want to be this guy’s friend.

    I *so* get that. GS is like my best friend. But I cant go to him because what I’m upset about is….him. LOL

    If he triggers you and you dont want to be JUST friends…..then just stay away and do no contact. It will hurt at first, like an addiction, but then once you break it – it will get better. Does that help? (hugs)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:21pm

  110. 110: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: I think you should take the advice in #104 to heart and apply it completely. Especially these parts:

    “You can NOT do anything to get out of this zone by being nice, friendly, accomodating, etc.”

    “My opinion is that you should completely go no contact with this guy. He is not there for you”

    “He is NOT the last man on Earth. And if he was, who cares? Would you want this? It sounds like no.”

    “Please listen to what all these girls on here are saying”

    “PLEASE. Please. PLEASE. And do no contact immediately. You can give him the “girlfriend speech” that Rori has – do you know it?”

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:21pm

  111. 111: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Malene – I know from RORI’s newsletter that I did everything wrong and he will always see me as a friend cause I put myself there.

    As far as I am concerned you doing things wrong is not relevant here. He remained where he was so he was getting his need met. Many men will say “I love you” because they don’t want to lose the good deal they have.

    He will see you as a friend if he categorizes you as friend and you accept that and stay right there with him. If he contacts you again I would tell him I don’t have time for men friends right. I am looking for romance and a romantic partner. So if things have not changed with him I’d encourage him not to contact me because he might not get a response.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:22pm

  112. 112: DeniseNo Gravatar says:

    @ Elise

    Thank you and you are right.

    I understand what you are saying and I will take heed to it. Thank you all for your help.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:25pm

  113. 113: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Beloved: You’re going to be okay. You have to start giving to yourself…I mean really, really giving to yourself. Give yourself the gift of your smile. Your humor. Your joy. YOU deserve to see yourself that way. You can be positive regardless of what any man is doing/saying/getting/not getting from you. You’ve got this girl! Take care of you. And by take care of you, I mean stop letting men into your heart/mind/day who don’t deserve to be there. Shine out and attract others who shine. :-) It can be done. Someone who’s doing parts of a relationship that make you feel like your heart is being ripped out has no business in your life. Remove the energy from him. He’s sooooo not worth it. But YOU are. Give that positive energy to you. I think you’ll enjoy it.

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  114. 114: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Does anyone else here have experience with crying the good kind of tears?

    Tears that feel good?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:28pm

  115. 115: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    (((Liquid Light)))) ((((encouragement)))))

    I haven’t read the post yet about your friend, so I’ll read it now.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:31pm

  116. 116: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “When its right and feels good, it can happen so quickly!!!!”


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:33pm

  117. 117: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – I know!!! I was 100% thinking of MYSELF when I wrote it!!! :) I love that you picked up on that.

    I cant go no contact because we work near each other. But I am totally going to take the advice and NEVER EVER initiate contact, and then and only then try to keep it about work.

    I will have to think of a script if it comes up that he sees me pulling away as his “friend”. He HATES the idea of it. (of course…)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:34pm

  118. 118: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo: I’ve done it many, many, many times. :-) I think God gave me the gift of happy tears. lol

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:34pm

  119. 119: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Indigo – yes, but lately mine have been the “sad” kind. :(

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:35pm

  120. 120: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes and Elsie please please please don’t stop please keep it coming I need this so much I really do
    I need sosososo much to somehow not make him out to be bad or wrong or something and no blame or hate or makewronging
    and this is what I want so so so so much it’s what I’ve been meditating on and praying for
    to be free of addictions and toxic habits and behaviors
    and I feel scared
    and good at the same time
    like this pain is what I avoided before but I honestly wasn’t strong enough to handle it and maybe I can now
    feet on the ground
    omg omg I’m doing it…
    I have been junkie my whole life
    since before I was born and even in the womb
    okay that’s a story, lol
    I can almost laugh now
    back to my mantra
    it’s my divine connection I’m so hungry for
    keep coming back to that
    I didn’t know if I could ever do this
    I love me I love me and I don’t want to have to hate to move on
    back to the mantra
    back to work
    thank you yes yes more please yes

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:38pm

  121. 121: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie…thank you. I know what I am for some time now and will always be but hard to accept. I know that I have to do the no contact too but so hard. He texts like he cares using Babe, I love you, I miss you, want to c you, which means he wants sex but putting it into words actually is better than thinking it. He told me also that he did not want to raise anymore kids cause he just got done raising two of his. Guess that should tell me he doesn’t plan on being with me ever cause I have a 11 year old and was taking care of my grandson who is 9 years old.

    Too many comments from him that i think about now makes me feel stupid that i stayed with him hoping for more. Just didn’t listen like that Bachorlette girl rori was talking about. He does not come to my house and he always has an excuse. I know its cause he doesn’t want to be seen at my house and people will talk cause its a small community. He lives out where his home is the only one so no one knows when I am out there. He is usually alone when that happens. kids will be out somewhere. I tell him that I don’t like the secret meetings and he always says its not.

    So our FWB relationship has been going on for six years and no one knows that we are even that. Not family, kids, siblings, no one. that is why I am putting it on here cause I can’t talk to anybody about my situation and ask for advice. But thank you all for reading and giving me your opinion.

    One other thing, the girlfriend speech? what would that be and would that speech work for FWB relationships?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:38pm

  122. 122: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @BeLoved – Yes. Its like an addiction. Keep Breathing, and you will live. :)

    I know this because I didnt talk to GS for 4 days and I almost felt … relief, if that is possible. And then I was RIGHT BACK IN. Its like a drug. It is.

    Just break the habit. Commit to not talking to him for one week. 100% not talking to him. Then see how you feel. Dont think past that. Just think one week. You can do that for one week. The first few days will be the hardest.

    You got this……you GOT this.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  123. 123: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Malene it is the “no girlfriend” speech.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:41pm

  124. 124: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I love, love, love your answer to Beloved in 113

    And I will take some of it for myself, starting with
    “…Shine out and attract others who shine. …”

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:42pm

  125. 125: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 99 – This feels SO good to read. It warms my heart to see this working well in your life. And the fear of intimacy, it truly does fade over time. The more you can BE in trust – and this means mostly trust in yourself, that you will simply feel when something feels off, not right, as well as trust in your man – that if he’s up to no good, it will come out on its own if you haven’t already felt it, the more safe you will feeling relaxing into the feelings of going deeper into intimacy. It’s a process like all of this.

    As wonderful a relationship I have with K, it took me a very long time to not be afraid of intimacy, of being hurt, abandoned. So you’re so not alone.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:47pm

  126. 126: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    The TRUTH is – EVERY man knows that if he isn’t marrying you, he has NO VALID claim on you. He KNOWS he can’t expect LOYALTY (as in “exclusivity”) if he hasn’t committed to you. It’s plain, basic “man-speak” — whether he owns up to it or not.
    And the more we buy into this, the less respect, on a deep, subconscious level, he has for you. I would be willing to guess that he didn’t divorce his ex just because she cheated on him. There was more and uglier stuff he can’t even get to inside his brain and heart. If someone cheats on us — every single one of us blames ourselves for it. We’re enraged at them, but we think it’s because we weren’t “enough” (plenty around this for another discussion).


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:49pm

  127. 127: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    And most important – dating other men will take your focus OFF of this man and put it where it belongs – on yourself!

    The only way to see if this man can switch from friendship to romance is to emotionally walk away. Tell him he’s right about the “friends” thing. Agree with him. Step away completely. That means no talking, no lunch, no dinner because you have to DATE OTHER MEN and you don’t have so much time in your life for a male friend.

    This is absolutely true. My guess is you’ll hear from him quickly, He’ll be chasing you down. He’ll be upset that you’re cutting him off. Just be calm and say that you re looking for romance and a real relationship, and being friends with him is making it hard for you to move on, and you’ll contact him and be able to be friends later, when you’re with a man who wants the kind of relationship you do. Do it with a smile, very casually, no crying, no begging and see what happens.

    After you’ve practiced with other men, using my Feeling Messages and the Leanback and Focusing on Yourself and Loving Yourself Tools, you’ll be ready to talk with him and see him. I wish you luck!

    Love, Rori Raye

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:51pm

  128. 128: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I know I can – I went 3 months without talking to him before.
    Now I feel strangely numb and mixed up and not sure of what I want, lol.
    Like, really maybe I can let go of not ever wanting anything more from him
    I dunno
    I’m mixing myself all up
    gonna just keep breathing and focusing and back to the mantra and
    get grounded and back in my body again
    I think I got high on all the stress chemicals and the fear.
    IDK if I’m being brilliant or screwing everything up
    back to the mantra.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:58pm

  129. 129: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Feminewoman…I like the way you put into words on what to say if he should contact me again. How I don’t have time for men friends and if he still looking for FWB then not to contact me cause there may not be a response. That is better than not responding if he should. At least I give him the heads up if he should not receive a response.

    Elsie…we ARE in the same situation cause we want more with the men we were seeing but realized we were just placed in the friend zone. So hard on the heart when that happens! BOOOHOOOO! But cannot change them so we (women) have to accept and go after what we want for us! so sorry that you have to see him everyday at work. I can work my way around where I don’t have to see this guy for years.

    I have to go back and find the “No girlfriend” speech before he contacts me again. He usually waits three days before contacting me saying stuff like still mad. why you ignoring me I didn’t do anything to you, love you, miss you. Same messages nothing different. think the 3 day contact is in a guy manual somewhere. LOL

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 12:59pm

  130. 130: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @BeLoved – Dont freak out. You dont have to make a decision about anything right this very second. Give yourself some time. Seriously – just start with a week. Give yourself one week. Until next Friday, see if you can not talk to him and sort through your own feelings. Make it the “Week of BeLoved.” :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:00pm

  131. 131: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Malene – 103 – Then you’ve already answered your own questions. If FWB is not something you can handle, then you need to walk away. This is for YOU and no one else. You have no obligation to respond to his texts though if it makes you feel better, and I would suggest you do this – tell him that FWB which is what your relationship is just doesn’t feel good to you. No more contact would feel better to you. We can tweak this if you wish.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:01pm

  132. 132: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    The hardest thing for me to accept is that I cant DO anything, SAY anything, ACT in any way to make this different or better. I can only pull back and see what happens from there.

    As my friends and I always say….


    Truer words were never spoken.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:02pm

  133. 133: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose: Thank you! You see, in my experience, when we shine out, dark people have to turn away because they are blinded. Dark/negative people only like negative people. If we just have a little bitty light, they’ll hang around and hang around and hang around trying their best to put out our little shining light.

    BUT…if we shine brightly, it’s very uncomfortable (blinding) for them so they tend to fall away. They go off in search of either other dark/negative people or other people with just a little shining light so they can try to put it out. They like vulnerable people who are trying so hard to shine out. They absolutely can’t stand positive/shining people.

    Brightly shining/positive people on the other hand…they LOVE other brightly shining/positive people. :-)

    (Beloved…I addressed that to April Rose but it’s for you too…be selective about the people you allow into your life. Are they attracted to you because they want to shine with you or are they attracted to you because they want to extinguish your shine?)

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:02pm

  134. 134: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks April Rose! I really appreciate the hugs and encouragement!!! Same back at ya!

    ((((((((April Rose))))))))

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:03pm

  135. 135: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    And I totally get that and truly appreciate your being so honest and straightforward with me.
    And what I’m looking for is a real partnership, and so, though I feel great being with you, and may enjoy continuing to date you, I can’t be exclusively involved with any man who doesn’t want what I want.
    I’m not looking for a boyfriend, I’m looking to be married or in a lifelong partnership.
    I don’t feel ready to stop seeing you at this moment, I’m feeling very upset and shakey and don’t want this to end, and yet I see I need to keep my options open.
    What do you think?”
    He’ll either get angry and defensive – in which case just stand there and HEAR him without getting defensive yourself.
    You can say –
    “I don’t know what I’m going to do or how this is going to look, I only know I don’t want to be just a girlfriend. I feel such strong and loving feelings for you…I get and respect your need to stay free and non-committed, and yet that isn’t what I want right now. I feel confused, and all I want right now is to be able to talk with you, and for us to be honest with each other and see what happens.”


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:03pm

  136. 136: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I won’t see him again until Monday – our weekend starts in 2 hours.

    Elsie – can you see now how the stuff I said last weekend was projection and totally my view on my own situation?
    In a way I’m sorry it came out the way it did – It feels horrible knowing all that poison is/was in me – and in another way, I needed to see that about myself.
    Thanks so much for your support

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  137. 137: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    I would change the word DUMPED if I were you. I can’t see how “dumped” could help your self esteem. I dump garbage. I am not garbage so I don’t think of any man as having the power to dump me.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:07pm

  138. 138: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes he IS shiny. Super shiny, even, and I think he is attracted to my shiny..AND…
    he has a girlfriend. that he didn’t tell me about initially. that he is apparently committed to.
    and he triggers the effin crap out of me.

    He seems to have very little clue about the impact of his behavior on me. Having the grandbaby go back to her mom (he had her for a while) broke his heart and is possibly the first time he has EVER felt heartbreak.

    maybe I’m overreacting to all the pain I felt when he told me what was going on with his gf’s grandbaby that he wants custody of.
    and Elsie is right, I don’t have to decide anything right now.
    Just get through the day, keep the focus on me.
    Back to my mantra.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:10pm

  139. 139: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique…131…I have told him that FWB does not feel good to me. I feel like I should be collecting $$ when I walk out the door and that I feel angry after. he just says don’t feel like that cause your not one.

    I would definitely appreciate some help in writing the No FWB for me and to leave me alone text. Has to be text cause he will not call and talk to me. He communicates with me by text only. I have told him that before but he will text me and text me till I give in and respond. This time I feel it is really over for me cause I feel really bad. Drive home and cry and ask why God why he doesn’t want to be with me. Walk around my family and act like everything is okay is so hard when I feel like going to my room and crying. Remember they don’t know about us.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:14pm

  140. 140: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “Dark/negative people only like negative people.”

    Which is the reason I am open around the concept of energy. Negative and positive vibrate at different frequencies. Dark and light cannot exist the same environment. So when someone decides to move on or say “we are not a match” I believe I do myself a favor in believing “those rejections are God’s protection”.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:18pm

  141. 141: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Feminine Woman – LOL – Its just a saying. It cracks me up – its not meant to be taken literally, in fact it lightens my heart just thinking of my friend and I saying it. :) LOL

    @BeLoved – no need to apologize. If this guy already has a girlfriend, then I think it makes this even easier for you. Easier in the sense that the decision is clearer that this is toxic poison addiction for you sweetie.

    @Malene – If you feel EVER like a prostitute with someone you are with – I would leave instantaneously. Wow. Honey, please look at what you wrote. That must FEEL horrible to you – it feels horrible to me to read it. AND he ONLY talks to you through text? And he isnt there for you or your family? AND he sends you messages he sends to other girls, AND he doesnt ever take you out on a date? AND you arent allowed to even tell your family about him. Look. I dont know you but ANYONE deserves better than this sweetie. Please please please no contact. There are some sirens on here that will help you with the wording of the last text…..they are better than me (I’d let him have it!) LOL

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:18pm

  142. 142: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Malene do you realize you can request that the number be blocked?

    You don’t have to respond. Give yourself the option of at least “thinking” that you don’t have to. You are not his puppet with your strings in his hand. You don’t have to participate in his drama.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:20pm

  143. 143: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Beloved: I guess I was thinking he knew how you feel about him. If he doesn’t, then that’s different. If he doesn’t know how you feel or how he makes you feel when you are around him (triggered) then there’s really nothing he can do, as a man, to “fix” it. So my bad for missing that piece of it.

    Ultimately then it is just YOU who needs to shine brightly (continue to) and to spread joy to yourself and beyond so that more more more shiny men will show up for you to choose from. :-)

    Much Love,

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:22pm

  144. 144: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie I know that.

    Your brain doesn’t. It is an unconscious thing and counterintuitive to drop the “dumped” label that you have given to yourself.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:22pm

  145. 145: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Malene there is no need to respond. He is not even a friend. Friends don’t treat each other that way.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:24pm

  146. 146: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    my text would be:
    I do not want to be in the FWB relationship we have anymore cause I want more. Being FWB does not feel good to me. I want a relationship and since you are not ready, then please do not contact me from here on so I can move on with my life.

    Do I mention that I am beginning to care for him and seeing him with another or other ladies hurts me or do I leave that out cause he may keep texting me knowing that.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  147. 147: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Can I ask how old you are, and which family members you live with?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  148. 148: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Malene – How about blocking him then, so you don’t have to see the texts from him?

    “What we have here just doesn’t feel good to me. I don’t want to do this anymore, for the feelings I have around you feel too painful. And I don’t want to continue contact, for this also feels too painful. Thank you for honoring me in this request.”

    And then ignore his texts or block him if you can. He will give up sooner or later.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:28pm

  149. 149: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I’d love to know his age too. Sounds very immature.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:30pm

  150. 150: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Dominique – I love your response.

    @Malene – I would NOT write – please dont contact me so I can move on with my life. You dont need his permission or any action from him to do anything. You can move on whether or not he tries to contact you so dont give him that power in a sentence. :)

    I would leave out that seeing him with other women hurts you. I’m sure he already knows. And doesnt seem to care. Also, the rest of what Dominique wrote implies that you want to be exlusive with him and without that you are leaving.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:35pm

  151. 151: Lady SunNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori and ladies,
    I’ve lived with a man for five years and the word I would use to describe how I feel about us is ‘almost’. I’ve always wanted more – more affection, more care, more of him initiating, more connection and intimacy – and I’ve expressed that in feeling messages in every way I can. I still come back to feeling undernourished in the relationship.
    I’m happier in myself and more at ease when I’m not with him. Is this a sign I should end it?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:38pm

  152. 152: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    After reading your responses, I agree that he does not even require a response. I already told him that I was leaving the FWB relationship we had and to be with the other woman he has been cruising around town with. He has not responded after that message. So you are all right he does not require a response.

    Elsie….you are right! I should have left a long time ago when I started feeling like a prostitute. That was Christmas last year and I even voiced how I felt at the time I was walking out! He knew I was upset but he didn’t do or say anything. Thank you for putting all that is “not right” into words for me to read. I never even thought of how I was treated till now.

    Feminewoman…..It is true that friends don’t treat friends that way! I get that he was out for himself and does not care about my feelings or me at all! I know he uses the words I love you cause those words probably gets him what he wants with me and the other ladies. I really feel like this FWB relationship has reached its end. Its the after text that I would not know how to handle and I have never blocked a number before.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:40pm

  153. 153: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Malene – GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! I’m glad you realized he doesnt need a response. That is great progress and awesome on your part!

    I’m glad I could help you. These girls on here are awesome. I dont know what I would have done without them in the past year so I’m glad I could help you.

    Just block his number. You will be scared to do it and nervous and think “what if” but after you do it you will feel SO POWERFUL!!!!!!

    Sometime in the future you KNOW he will text you. And he will never ever get an answer. Now THAT has to bring a smile to your face. You go girl.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:42pm

  154. 154: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I have been badly behaved under the symptoms of PMS aggravated by eating wheat and sugar.

    The dark goddess in me loves this. She feels powerful having a tantrum. She feels a release of restriction.
    I was running through a field of trees earlier and she was shouting “f*ck off” to the people (who came into my mind) who don’t get me. It felt pleasurable and relieving.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:44pm

  155. 155: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose….I am 50 years old and he is 45 years old. I have one son, two daughters and a grandson. son is 18 yrs old, daughter is 29 and other daughter is 11 years old. grandson is 9 years old. I don’t live with my 29 year old daughter but she comes home every weekend.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:44pm

  156. 156: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “Just block his number. You will be scared to do it and nervous and think “what if” but after you do it you will feel SO POWERFUL!!!!!!”

    Elsie, this feels exciting and fresh to read.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:46pm

  157. 157: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes – he knows. I *have* shown him my babytriggerface, he knows. I just think it was crap to sit at the table with me the other day, pick up a magazine, and leave me sitting there in front of a stack of dominoes without saying anything as if we hadn’t played together nearly every day for the past two years. He didn’t even say to me “I don’t feel like playing today”. I asked him, “Is this because I asked you to stop saying you were going to give me a spanking?” and he hung his head.

    Then it just sort of disintegrated from there.
    The next couple of days, he made arrangements with the OTHER guy we usually play with, to go play at a different part of the plant. I only know this because I overheard a conversation, he didn’t tell me and didn’t tell me he wasn’t going to be here – which he has been inconsistent in saying anything.
    I’ve gotten more thick-skinned about it, but it just hit me the wrong way the other day. I felt like…enough of this. Enough.
    He’s just ‘that’ way. He doesn’t want to answer to anyone. It’s not just me.
    I could be overreacting…idk and I will stay off the blog and on my horse after today and over the weekend.
    It all feels so silly now.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:47pm

  158. 158: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    You deserve a good man who shares in all that is beautiful in your life, including your family.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:48pm

  159. 159: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – 153 made me laugh :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 1:58pm

  160. 160: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    You don’t even have to block his number if he only texts and never calls.
    Simply delete it from your phone.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:00pm

  161. 161: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    to all the beautiful ladies thank you for your comments. It made me realize what I thought we had was something when I was the one getting effed all this time, not only sexual but as a person also! what I still don’t get is why did he not choose to be with me. i know rori says “her? why her?” That is how I feel right now. I am just happy after hearing all your responses that I am doing the right thing! I also realized a lot of what was going on with us that was not right. Not in any relationship should anyone be treated like I was. Now to stay strong and block his number and not respond.

    Elsie….from your comments, I believe you know what to do with your friend also.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:00pm

  162. 162: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Glad to raise a chuckle for you, Beloved.

    I love my dark goddess. I wonder if there is a man in this world who can love her too. She will test the b*llocks off him until he proves his love!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:03pm

  163. 163: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    Now that I have talked with you ladies and not keeping my FWB problem to myself I feel good. Like a weight that was weighing me down was lifted off my chest. Now I don’t have to carry this secret FWB relationship problems by myself! You have all enlighten me on my situation and appreciate you all for it. At first I was hesitate on posting my problem but knew I had too cause I was crying a lot and keeping it all in cause I could not talk to anyone about it. Thank you for helping me. I will definitely block his number and not respond to him even though I know i will get a text from him later on. I will keep you all up to date on my progress of becoming a “siren” like you all and not to accept any more crumbs from this man!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:13pm

  164. 164: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    You won’t get a text if you delete his number from your phone.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:17pm

  165. 165: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I think I got that mixed up. You would still get a text, but it would be a number that showed up, not his name.
    I remember now, Rori saying that deleting his number is to stop you from contacting him.

    Silly premenstrual April Rose!!! I love that silly gal :-)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:24pm

  166. 166: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose…I do not have his number in my phone so I can’t delete. I know his number by heart and I do not contact him at all. that is why he says he did not do anything wrong to me yet he is being ignored. I don’t know why he said that cause I never text him or contact him first!

    Maybe he is already feeling me being gone!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:29pm

  167. 167: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Help me sort this out….
    things felt fine, comfortable at work, smooth.
    Up until this week, I had hardly even thought of him outside of work. Practically never.
    I was feeling comfortable asking other people where he was, if he took the day off, without feeling needy – making peace with the fact that I do care for him and that was okay

    Then – unexpectedly he revealed to me that the mother of ‘his’ grandbaby took her back (she’s 2).
    He told me, “this is killing me…” and how attached he felt to her. When he said that, I felt like my heart exploded.
    He went home,
    I felt sick for a few days.
    He came in ..Monday? and mentioned he felt embarrassed for showing his feelings, when he did I told him yeah, I felt it, too, it made me really sick…
    at lunch I asked him to stop saying the spanking thing,
    next day the not-talking at break,
    then going somewhere else for lunch for 2 days, then today I ate with someone else…

    Like…I don’t want to be his ‘friend’ friend, outside of work, but I did actually feel comfortable and okay with the way things were at work, I had made my peace with it. I like him just fine, I just feel crap about the way we are handling whatever is coming up.
    It just felt like everything cascaded into a big fat mess since Monday.

    I don’t want to let this weirdness go on too long, I don’t like it, I don’t want it, and idk what is going on.
    I hate that I have infantile reactions and freak out.

    I don’t know.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:36pm

  168. 168: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I trust the Universe so much, that I know what’s coming for me will surely find me, with no effort or searching or chasing on my part.

    I need do nothing.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:38pm

  169. 169: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    “He told me, “this is killing me…” and how attached he felt to her. When he said that, I felt like my heart exploded.”

    Is it that you want someone to care that much and that obviously, for you?

    Not necessarily him. Just that it was him who displayed such strength of emotion. Rare to experience such rawness in a man. Wow, in fact!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:42pm

  170. 170: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Have you sunk down into the ‘sick’ feelings it triggered in you? There might be some treasure for you to discover underneath what feels like ‘sick’.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:46pm

  171. 171: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – I would love for a man to feel that way about me – but not HIM! I’m really really okay with it and I’ve been sinking into the feelings like crazy and I think that what I’m learning is…really..that it’s okay to love and care for him and he can be in love with someone else and be crazy about them and it’s okay, that I’m okay and it’s all good, there’s enough love to go around.

    He’s a guy I like a lot who brings out strong feelings in me and I just…like him.

    And I’m officially logging of for the weekend here…
    thank you all so so so so much, I feel loved and thank youuuu….

    big hugs to everyone!!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 2:56pm

  172. 172: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m feeling weird today…. the more I think about what we discussed last night… the more I’m just feeling like when am I ever going to get the tools…

    I keep forgetting to use my feeling messages and how do you feel? statements…

    and I’m just sabotaging the relationship and pushing things without meaning to….

    and I’m doing the best I can…

    I feel more confident now though… so not needy and fearful…

    “M” was suppose to get back with me a week ago on spending the night together… and since Wed. is our night to talk… I ask him… ( I know without my feeling messages) You were going to get back with me on something last week… just wondering about that…

    So, I had told him that spending the night together every now and then didn’t work for me… too hard to get used to it… when my sleep is so delicate etc… from an emotional point of view and though it works well for him when he does it when he wants to, it doesn’t work for me. I told him that I had expressed my needs months ago and I felt that they weren’t considered. ( this was last week during out talk)

    I said in order for me to be able to do it, I need it to be on a schedule, so I can get used to it… and feel comfortable with it being safe etc… so that 2 nights were better than one b/c the first night is always restless…. so that if that doesn’t work for him, then we would need to not spend the night together anymore…

    So, last night he told me he wasn’t ready for 2 night… again!!! not ready… but we spent 8 nights at his house when the rapist was hanging out in my neighborhood… doesn’t make sense to me…

    So, then I said ok, well I’ll let you know how I want to proceed then… since we won’t be spending the night together anymore..

    So, then the convo went to comittment…and how at 6mos I had a deadline… and wasn’t sure about my feelings about how things were progressing or not… and that it was time to know if indeed the relationship was working towards marriage…

    anyways… he feels I’m wanting marriage now, not what I said or meant, he is twisting it… then I just said it has to be working towards that… like we agreed in the beginning…

    so, then he said, it feels like I’m proposing marriage if I say that it is working towards it… I said I’m not wanting it now… but that I do need to know that it is going there IF things work out…

    Then I said… in a No boyfriend way… it might be better since your now sure, for me to put my profile back on , and see other people until … he didn’t like that idea but I didn’t have enough energy or guts to just say, that I’m ready for a commitment and since your not, … and take your time … I keep f’ing up the no boyfriend speech… I could have had the window was cracked… all I had to do is remember the script…

    I told him I was in no hurry as to rush him, but that it has been 6 mos… and that if it isn’t going towards marriage, I need to know b/c that is my goal and I’m looking for that…

    He was very tired and so was I…. so when he left he said thanks for hanging in there with me tonight and helping me go deeper into things and realize what I want… ( I still didn’t know what he wants unless I missed something)

    He said I love you! and I could see that he does, by his words and action…

    But I can already tell he is withdrawing… and I’m feeling like I want to too…. just b/c I’m so tired of hearing I’m not ready, when I’m not wanting to push things I just want to know where he IS… and I do get to decide all the way, if I want to stay or go…

    I do feel that 6mos is long enough to know if you want to move forward or not..

    So, I was circle dating big time today… smiling and being open to men where ever I was shopping ….. getting looks and accepting them… loving it…

    would be nice to have circle dating lunch or hikes etc….

    I’m tired… and really just feel like going inward now… and not worrying about him… or us… and focus on ME and my child… going to dig in the dirt now…


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 3:00pm

  173. 173: MaleneNo Gravatar says:

    have a good evening everyone. Thank you for all your help! signing off now.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 3:02pm

  174. 174: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Asking a man to stop doing something is a habit I have.
    It’s neither truthful nor respectful.
    All I can do is to say how I feel about the thing he is doing.
    I can’t control whether he does something or not. What I can do is reveal how it makes me feel. And say I don’t want to feel that way.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 3:08pm

  175. 175: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    It feels so good not focusing on any man, or men, or dating … I am imagining the waterwheel as my relationship with the Divine, and I feel filled up …

    I like to receive love in the form of money, and mostly when people support my business financially. I learned this with my blog, because for the first year I received no money and lots of attention. At the end of the day, the attention didn’t give me much of anything that I wanted. I still had to work a full-time job and I got to feeling very resentful until I created financial boundaries. When people give me money, it feels like their “kind words” actually mean something. They care enough about my well-being to want to see me living in abundance and freedom. This is not the same as a man “trading” romantic gifts for sex, which doesn’t feel good to me at all. People supporting my life purpose feels like they actually see ME, not some bizarre fantasy image of me …

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 3:29pm

  176. 176: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    WOW I’ve been focusing more on Me and getting things more oraganized working on ideas for my business and I’ve missed over 100 posts… YIKES…

    I feel bad… that I just struggle to keep up… yet it feels so good to focus on me… and not him or it ( the relationship) I got lots done this evening in happy focused way… played and enjoyed my child… and he is far far away in my mind… funny how focusing on him and it can really stall my life… my energy… my time… my focus…
    that ticks me Off!

    I’m determined to focus on ME and my life and my passions… and my child and life, nature…what brings my life meaning…

    I might have screwed things up last night who knows one thing for sure… I’m not the only one that is in this and it takes two to tango… AND I’m not going to take all the credit… I’m doing the best I can with an open heart loving and accepting him, being there for him, and melting, being vulnerable… and honest… SO what I have to say IS if that isn’t enough for man… then I need to move on… I’m a great catch, I’m very deeply loving and wonderful girlfriend… so! Queens don’t worry about it… they know there is more where that came from… b/c they know they have value…

    I love him but I’m not addicted to him, and I can love him without attachment…

    WOW that felt good to get off my chest….

    @ AprilRose sending love {{ hugs}}}
    @ Indigo sending love and {{[ hugs}}
    @ Elsie love and {{ hugs }}


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 5:36pm

  177. 177: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I wonder if he experiences the negotiating for 2 nights as you strategizing, because you do want more?

    “… but we spent 8 nights at his house when the rapist was hanging out in my neighborhood” – any good man would do this to help out a friend. It is not necessarily an invite to build a romantic experience together.

    “I told him I was in no hurry as to rush him, but that it has been 6 mos… and that if it isn’t going towards marriage, I need to know b/c that is my goal and I’m looking for that…” – this reads like putting in the time. Like a prison sentence. If it is a goal, after you get married then what? Many men are afraid of marriage because of this very thing. It is as if the girls are not interested in the man as a human being. They have a goal and getting the man is the target. It is the dream of many a girl so they hold on to a man desperately, regardless of the cost.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:12pm

  178. 178: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – you know I love you – but wow, I think 6 months is not enough to know whether or not you want to marry someone and I’m a girl. :) It does sound like you are super mega pressuring him. PLEASE read the book Addicted because you are so anxious attached, its 100% you. Please. Please.

    This man sounds like a GREAT man who can verbalize his feelings. You are pushing and pushing.

    For two weeks (or a month) do NOTHING. Literally NOTHING. Do not ask to talk. Do not initiate anything. Just be. Let it be. Just relax. I am very nervous reading your posts and I’m not even in the relationship with you. This man may truly marry you, but you NEED to relax and just let go. Please.

    I agree with everything Feminine Woman said. 8 nights to protect you from a rapist is different than a romantic getaway. You are then telling him one night isnt enough, he needs to do two. Then you wil be telling him three, etc. move in, etc.

    You said you were in no hurry to rush him, but then immediately rushed him by talking about the fact that it was only 6 months.

    PLEASE please PLEASE take it from me. Just do nothing for 4 weeks. Please. Even one week. Start there, literally do nothing.

    It does sound like you are more interested in marriage than in being with THIS PERSON the rest of your life.

    Your panic is evident and I am sure that he reads it.

    I am sooooooo not trying to be mean, because I really want good things for you and I want you two to end up together. please listen to me and feminine woman. :)

    Its only a bit of time. You will feel better after it…..ok?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:25pm

  179. 179: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise – glad to see your posts today. I also find that I’m awesome and feeling in control and resolute for the first 3 or so days then I have a major crash around day 3/4 after contact and feel like i NEED to re-establish some kind of connection, ANY kind. It’s serious withdrawl!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:35pm

  180. 180: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Zia – exactly. Its like an addiction. Its soooo hard to break.

    I’m setting small goals for myself.

    I am going on a lunch date (I think) tomorrow ….


    My next small goal is to try not to think about him at all over the weekend.

    My next goal is to not initiate ANY contact with him at all next week.

    If he ends up giving me that present I think he is going to get me, I will be gracious and say thank you, (its for an injury of mine) but not gush.

    Those are my goals.

    Baby steps. But no contact except when necessary.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:40pm

  181. 181: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – You sit there, and say nothing.


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:43pm

  182. 182: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Dominique – ugh…..I dont know if I can do that!!!!!! LOL

    The waiter came last time and said, “Should I split the bill?”

    And he and I both looked at each other and just were nervously smiling and we both raised our eyebrows like “I dont know”….and then I couldnt take the silence anymore and I said – yes, go ahead and split it.

    But what do I do this time if I cant take the silence…….Oh Dominique I dont think I can take the silence, I’m being honest. I know myself in that moment, I dont think I can do it……

    Where do I look? How do I look? Ugh….

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:46pm

  183. 183: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, I’m thinking the same thing. I would just drop the oars with him. Put up you profile, date other people. Am I understanding/reading correctly that you are currently not spending the night at each others houses?

    If he is not making room in his life for a real committed relationship with you, then talking marriage is premature. It doesn’t really matter what he says about his feelings… He is not showing up.

    He sounds very very focused on himself.

    What you want is a relationship that is moving toward marriage. He is not giving you that.

    The other thing I’m not clear on is: are you meeting weekly to talk about the relationship? That doesn’t sound fun. You should be dating each other and having a good time. I may have misunderstood….CW can barely take 10 minutes of relationship talk. Let alone a weekly talk.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:48pm

  184. 184: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie– lol

    You crack me up!

    You are on a roll today.

    It’s really true that one of the best ways to grow is to help other people.

    In AA that is why they have sponsorship…. Even if you have only been sober for a day, there is someone you can help who has been sober for less time than you.

    I wouldn’t pay. Don’t offer. That is one of the biggest things I’ve learned recently is to be quiet. Do not fill the awkward spaces. Men don’t expect us to. The awkward space leads to greater attraction– it’s weird, but I keep testing it and it works every time. Stay open, smile, let there be silence…and guys do some pretty remarkable things!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 6:55pm

  185. 185: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for the hugs Lisa xxx

    I’ve come to an important realization recently; the ability to feel good has always been there, regardless of what a man, or anyone else for that matter, is doing.

    I can’t help but feel awed by how some beautiful, wise part of me has taken care of me, leading me to amazing experiences and realisations, and eventually back to the realization of my love for myself, holding my heart gently and safely all the while, looking after me.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:02pm

  186. 186: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranium – I TRIED to do that last time, but the silence was deafening and I just couldnt take it anymore. What if he doesnt really want to pay for me, and thinks I’m just money grubbing or something for not splitting, but frankly, I dont want to be with a guy who wont pay at least at first thats a big deal to me.

    Bleah. Ugh. And other gross noises. LOL.

    Am I supposed to smile and look down? Smile and look at him? What if he says nothing?

    Can I say – well, I decided last time, this time its up to you? Can I at LEAST say that?! PLEASE?!?!?!?!! lol.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:07pm

  187. 187: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Did he ask you on the date?

    He should pay.

    This sets the tone for whatever happens going forward….

    Unless you want a relationship where everything is going Dutch…..I’d say for quite a few dates, he should pay.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:15pm

  188. 188: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Actually, if you have to say something- use a feeling message??

    This feels awkward…
    This feels funny….
    This feels icky….

    If he is a masculine man, the *last* thing he wants to do is ask you how to handle it, so just keep quiet….

    I guess you could head for the ladies room when the check comes!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:19pm

  189. 189: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranium –

    Yes, he asked me out the first time, but it was to catch up as old friends from college…..not a date, so I was sort of ok paying…..sort of.

    But this time the “feel” of it is different and it definitely feels like a lunch date.

    OK I like “This feels awkward……”

    I only want masculine guys…..so if I end up paying dutch, I probably wont go out with him again.

    And I cant really head for the ladies room because of where this place is- its hard to explain its in the middle of an old theatre and the restroom is miles away LOL. Its hard to explain. Its in a building that is 150 years old. LOL.

    He hasnt texted yet tonight so I have no idea if we are on for tomorrow or not. He didnt text yesterday either which is totally fine with me, I seriously dont care. But he asked me on Wed. and we had TENTATIVE plans for Friday.

    If he doesnt text me tonight, and then tomorrow morning asks if lunch is still on, should I say yes? Or is that too late? Etc?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:25pm

  190. 190: FlowerNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rori for this insightful article. It describes what I’m feeling, thinking and going through

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:25pm

  191. 191: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Continuing focus on me … lol … I went for massage today, really holding tension in my hips and tush right now so that felt great to get some release. Barely thinking about men at all and reminding myself to go back to the holy instant. A little more anger with creepy guy surfaced … anger that he was so “into” my “hot” photographs after I lost weight, where I’m wearing nice dresses and stilettos … and he showed up totally fashion-less, wearing white sneakers to a first date(!!) … which just symbolized everything else about the situation … there’s still this “how the hell did he think he was going to attract a woman like this?” and lurking in there is my anger that I believe the Universe and dating coaches and part of myself are all asking me to “settle” for far less than what I really want. I reminded myself that I really do not want to put any more energy into this man who is not even in my life anymore. Back to the holy instant.

    Got my scuba equipment back so it’s ready for Bali, and some healthy yummy groceries, then back home. Spent a lot of money and it felt good when I checked my voice-mail and the insurance company is sending me a good-sized check. Feels like a relief.

    I mostly don’t feel like doing much. “I need do nothing” is great and there are still “shoulds” in my mind telling me I need to do more, like for my business.

    Right now I’m curling up with the Bali book and beginning to decide where to stay. 6 nights at the Four Seasons in Sayan feels delicious. They have specialty massages for every chakra …

    Who would I be without the belief that I “need” a romantic relationship in my life? I’m finding out … :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:53pm

  192. 192: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I thought of that today… he took it the wrong way…

    Ok this isn’t any different than when we first started dating being clear that marriage is the goal.. I did make it clear that, I wasn’t wanting to know if he wants to marry me… but that marriage was still on the plate… I’ve read it in Rori’s stuff also…

    I guess, I’m just not really making myself clear or something… or to him… I don’t want to be in a relationship IF marriage isn’t the goal … not wanting to know IF he is ready for it… I’ve made it clear this way all along… and before he would say yes, it is my goal to be married… and it was light and easy…

    Ok I’m confused… I thought all along that I needed to have the goal of marriage in mind and to keep it on the plate and clear that was my goal…

    Yes, he is a good man… and NO I don’t want to push him… this has really gotten all tangled up… and confusing and messy…

    6mos was my time limit to know if, things could be committed and working towards marriage if things do work out… wasn’t my deadline to know that I’m the one or have a ring… though I’ve heard that happens to women using Rori’s method…

    Yes, your right a good man would do that to anyone as a friend… and though we weren’t friends.. and we slept in the same bed together for 8 night and he wanted me there ( and ask me to stay) the rest of the month…He also just ask me and my child to come stay with him another week…. It doesn’t compute… I guess my point is, that he can’t sleep with me 2 nights b/c he isn’t ready?

    What about me? It’s hard on me to constantly have to do things on his time frame and his desire. I feel like a yo-yo… I know he needs to lead the relationship, but I feel he isn’t taking my needs into consideration too…

    Oh dear! I’m so confused now… I thought I was doing it right…. but now reading your take on it… I’m controlling and leading… bluggg

    so what do I do now…?


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:59pm

  193. 193: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Lurking in there also was anger about a belief that most men are just F-ing clueless. The indignant part of me keeps going over it in my mind, “wow, how did that guy get ‘hot public figure woman with successful business is going to date guy who has no real purpose in his life and wears white sneakers to first dates.’?”

    Lot of judgment there that I need to release. I feel soooo judgmental of that guy. Sometimes I find myself judging that way when I read posts here, too, and I want to scream, “Ladies, you’re expecting way too much from these guys … they are all F-ing clueless. They are not ever going to step up because they don’t know how. They need coaching, they need radical transformation themselves.” And then I catch myself lol and breathe …

    Back to the holy instant. Feeling the righteous indignation …. ooh grief underneath that. Disappointment. Breathe. Feel.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 7:59pm

  194. 194: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I can only imagine how many YEARS of feeling messages it would take for that guy to “get it” … I can’t imagine anything more tedious and awful than attempting to “coach” him with feeling messages instead of extremely blunt direct statements … I think I would literally go mad with anger trying to do that …

    Back to Bali and me :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:02pm

  195. 195: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Ok…. I get it… i’m still confused.. and I wasn’t anxious, I was just clear… but I’m going to let it go… b/c I don’t want to lose him..

    and I can’t do one night here and there… sorry.. it’s too hard on me… and I need to take care of me… so I’ll just have to go to no spending the night together… I have to also look at my own emotional needs which I haven’t been doing b/c the focus has been 100% on his needs and when he is ready and what works for him, and how to make it so he is comfortable…

    I got beaten to death by a man that crashed into my bedroom window while I was peacefully asleep, and thought I’ve healed sooo much from that.. and I have no PTSD from it now… I still have a very healthy need to have some type of sleep consistency… and I’ve forgone that for him, and now that I have forgone it for him so that now he is comfortable with sleeping with me… I need to do what works for me too…

    I only hope that he will listen to my needs and realize that I need to do what works for me too… it was very very very hard for me to get used to sleeping with him for 8 nights + and feel safe and consistent and then have to undo all that when he freaked out… and now I’m back to square one… and that hurts… b/c he wants me to do the yo-yo thing with sleep and that feels awful to me…

    Should I apologize to him and tell him that I’m sorry that the conversation was me feeling fearful… and that I wasn’t and don’t want to push him…

    I do not want him to be in a prison…that wasn’t’ my intent and no Marriage isn’t the main thing…

    man… I’m so hurt and confused now..

    I have a way of really f’ing things up… I guess right before our anniversary night…

    No Elsie, I’m not upset with you and yes I know you love me… I can take the truth and other people’s opinions…

    right now, I’m feeling horrible… and totally confused as hell…


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:12pm

  196. 196: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, we talk weekly about things that might be bothering us…. and we talk as long as we need to…

    He is focused on himself yes, he makes room for me 3-4 nights a week, but after 6mos we spend the night together maybe twice a month…

    He does take care of me, nurturers me… does things for me… and his meditation time and practice is what he says is bothering him to where he doesn’t feel he can do more…

    Well “M” has a degree in psychology so maybe that is why he can do more than 10 mins.. but yeah he doesn’t really like it… but since he gets to also tell me what is bothering him about me… he had discovered that he likes it ok now..

    I do want a relationship that is working towards marriage… that’s all… not asking him to know if he is ready for it with me, or not asking for a ring now… just want to make sure that he is indeed working towards it… somehow it has turned into me wanting marriage now…

    No I don’t want to talk marriage… I made that clear… I just want it to be on the plate..

    Like Rori has said, to be clear that marriage is what I’m looking for… a commitment.. eventually not now…

    I just don’t want to be strung along if he knows it isn’t what he wants and if he knows it isn’t me then I need to know, so I can move on…

    I guess, I’m not explaining it well in my posts…

    Thanks for you post…. <3 {[Hugs}}

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:21pm

  197. 197: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    I feel like I need to take time off from the blog…
    I feel pressure on myself to act a certain way…I just need to step away for a bit. Maybe I’m not ready….maybe I’m still battling myself inside…maybe this all feels so serious and I’m not ready for serious REALLY…it’s easy to say you want that….but I’m not sure I do. Anyway, I’m gonna step back and just be for awhile….

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:41pm

  198. 198: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Millie – I understand, sometimes it can get overwhelming when new informaiton and others opinions are coming at you. We really are all trying to help, I hope you know that. Just go be. We’ll be here when you get back. :)

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:46pm

  199. 199: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    “I just don’t want to be strung along if he knows it isn’t what he wants and if he knows it isn’t me then I need to know, so I can move on…” This is exactly where I get sort of hung up too at times…. The way I’ve heard it described is that men know that we want to get married (the good men who can be in a relationship). They assume all women want to get married. He is still there and trying so that to me says marriage is still on the table. You’ve only been dating 6 months…I don’t think that is long enough to be strung along. Maybe a year.

    Only staying over 2 nights a month would be a deal breaker for me. (unless there were truly extenuating circumstances). He works from home and he can’t get in his meditation early enough to stay over? He gets up early for the financial markets? How will this ever change? Does he have a plan?


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:46pm

  200. 200: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Ok – no text tonight. Hmmmm… I GUESS that I’m still having lunch tomorrow? His last texts to me on Wed. night were that he was going to try to take a 1/2 day on Friday so that he could go to lunch with me…..and then we flirted a bit and thats it.

    So if he says in the morning – are we still on for lunch, do I say yes?

    Ugh. THIS is why I hate circular dating. You actually have to …. circular date. Ugh.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:47pm

  201. 201: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    From my posts back in the year 2011.

    Why Good Women Stay With Bad Men


    “She is such a smart, attractive woman. Why is she putting up with HIM?”

    How often have we heard this at home or at the office?

    I am going to answer the question with my professional counseling opinion based on 35 years experience dealing with women and men in relationships

    This article is divided into four areas, following Jungian archetypal divisions:

    => Playgirl
    => Amazon
    => Mother
    => Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    => The Playgirl aspect in every woman’s psyche — in every culture — seeks physical pleasure through all her five senses.
    Nature supports her mating well, especially through the sense of smell, her pheromones.
    Dr. Theresa L. Crenshaw, a pioneer in sexual medicine, in her 1996 book, The Alchemy of Love and Lust, writes about the “bonding” influence of the peptide oxytocin.

    Oxytocin is secreted from the pituitary gland’s posterior lobe from which it goes to receptor sites in the brain and throughout the reproductive tract, especially where estrogen resides.
    Dr. Crenshaw’s work is based on a Niles Newton 1978 article, “The Role of the Oxytocin Reflexes in Three Interpersonal Reproductive Acts: Coitus, Birth and Breast Feeding.”
    Oxytocin increases sensitivity to touch, especially sexual touching, particularly at the time of orgasm. Alcohol lowers oxytocin.

    How does this oxytocin effect impact a woman’s relationship to men?
    When she first meets a potential mate, she is either:

    >Open to investigate
    >Highly attracted

    If she is >”disinterested”, it may be because of an intellectual decision that the man is not eligible due to unacceptable looks, social skills, or poor financial prospects.
    These factors can all be overridden by continued dating exposure if the pheromones (chemistry) are basically positive.
    Her brain may disqualify him, while her body says “yes.”
    I advise women to date each decent man at least three times before discarding him as a suitor. If he passes this “brain barrier” and she determines he is eligible to >”investigate” — and the chemistry is reciprocal — then normal dating occurs.

    The >“highly attracted” category is the most addictive-prone area and the one that I wish to address.
    When a woman is in the presence of an oxytocin-stimulating man, she may override her intellectual judgment about their “compatibility,” especially when she attempts to diminish oxytocin’s impact with alcohol.

    Where formerly she might be sexually conservative, requiring a serious commitment, she now finds herself deeply involved sexually before negotiating boundaries, such as his (or her) current marital status, criminal background, and financial accountability.

    The problem with oxytocin-based addictive bonding to an inappropriate man is that the intellect is relegated to a secondary status in choice and judgment.
    The good counsel of parents, friends, religious leaders and psychotherapists is of no benefit. Addiction to oxytocin as a pleasure takes over.

    2008 Dr. Pat Allen P.H.D

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:55pm

  202. 202: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    So, in reality:
    1) you really aren’t invested in this relationship (you’ve had 1 lunch).
    2) you’re circular dating so you can experiment & learn
    3) *if* he contacts you at the last minute tomorrow you could say you already have lunch plans, because you didn’t hear from him , yada yada yada…
    ….and then see what he does….

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:56pm

  203. 203: ZaraNo Gravatar says:


    => The Amazon

    The Women’s Liberation Movement has freed the Amazon to such a degree that many women put its aspects of money, power, and prestige before the other three archetypes.
    Many young pre-menopausal women are embarrassed to admit that they want to marry and have children ahead of career-building.

    The decision about being a Woman with a Career and not a Career Woman is the dilemma of our era.
    Putting career performance ahead of processing marriage and babies, while a woman is young, produces distress in the body and raises cortisol levels in the system.
    To be fertile, a woman’s brain must absorb the neurotransmitter serotonin, which is a natural tranquilizer.

    Long-term, career-driven distress causes an inhibition of serotonin release.
    This inhibition directly impacts the hormonal balance necessary for impregnation.
    The current usage of SSRIs is a medical approach to alleviate the serotonin deprivation due to distress.
    Essentially, young women are not designed to live like testosterone or progesterone-based men and postmenopausal women.

    Further repercussions of young career women with serotonin deprivation are carbohydrate craving and drinking to soothe the anxious nervous system by raising the brain’s glucose levels.
    Toleration and craving indicate that there is an addictive process going on in a woman’s body — whether genetically based or stress-related.

    Once a woman has committed to a Career Woman/Amazon lifestyle of performance and competition for money, power and prestige, she often must pay sexually and martially.
    This woman is highly susceptible to a “bad man.”
    Men who feed off distressed career women, financially and/or sexually, are aided and abetted when women are anxious.
    This anxiety can be due to being over-worked, over-stressed, overly medicated with drugs or disinhibited with alcohol, or having low self-esteem from the shame and guilt of eating disorders.

    A man with a good “line” and the right chemistry can easily “bond” such an Amazon woman.
    T.G.I.F can occur at the end of everyday, calling for kick-back pleasure, especially sex.
    He often becomes the Amazon’s dependent “toy-boy” or her dominating abuser — neither a good husband or father for the children she wants “some day soon.”

    Everyday I see women, whose clocks are pounding, who beg for help to abstain from “him” — the “bad man.”.
    They want a “good man,” but view him to be “boring” or a “sell out.”
    Quiet goodness and stability don’t “feel” like passion, which becomes the mainstay of women with exciting, painful, passionate bad men.

    Affection, comfort, and being pleasured by a loving, generous, protective, cherishing man does not seem “right” to a woman who has sexually bonded to a man who uses or abuses her.
    Struggling and pain are part and parcel of her career, as well as her sex life.

    Adulation of the Amazon archetype has cost many young women motherhood and marriage in exchange for careers that would be better served after menopause and chemistry changes.
    Getting an education in preparation for a delayed career and getting married and having children sooner rather than later, seems more balanced and less susceptible to “bad men” desperate choices.
    Our life span has extended into the 80s.

    I advise women to carefully decide their sequence of life events.
    Are you a “Career Woman” or a “Woman with a Career on the side or later in life”?
    Each has value and each costs with motherhood and marriage.
    Career Women will make money whether married or not, but may not enjoy motherhood.
    Women with careers delayed or on the side may not make as much money, power or prestige as their Amazon sisters, but they may enjoy their marriages and motherhood more.
    My offices are full of unhappy Amazons, not happy moms.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 8:58pm

  204. 204: ZaraNo Gravatar says:


    => The Mother

    The Mother Archetype and its relationship to self-destructive relationships are my next topic.
    In Freudian psychology, daughters are impacted more by their fathers than their mothers. It is in the reflection of her father’s approval that a daughter perceives her value as a woman.
    Mother is a role model or the lack of one.
    When dad is gone, drunk, incestuous, a workaholic, dead, or disinterested, a daughter must look elsewhere for reflection of her self-value.

    Often mother is doing her ”Amazon” expression — she is post-menopausal, single, or in a dual-career marriage.
    The young woman soon learns that performance, or “doing good,” at home, school, job/career is the goal that Dad approves of, rather than the less goal-oriented processing of “feeling good,” body pleasuring, cherishable femininity.
    To be a cherishing Daddy requires giving attention.
    This cherishable act is not as efficient, effective or time economical as requiring a daughter to perform respectably.
    The latter requires less attention like “atta-girl” strokes.
    Where does she get her cherishable pleasure? You guessed it: sex or food or both.

    Daddy-deprived daughters become Daddy-deprived women who often empathize with Mommy-deprived men.
    Becoming his archetypal “Mother” naturally leads to sexual bonding, thus perpetuating her starvation for cherishing from a man.
    She desensitizes her pain by letting him move into her home, allowing him to borrow money, accepting verbal or physical abuse, or rationalizing that he “needs” a good woman to help heal his childhood traumas.
    She may let years go by, as she experiences abortions, lost money, body damage, etc., before she hits a bottom where the pain overrides her oxytocin pleasure.

    If she chooses to have a child with this man, the oxytocin stimulated by gestation and lactation can cause her to bond to the baby as a source of pleasure over the man.
    This phenomenon results in a competition that can lead to splitting up and then engaging in a healing process for her.
    It can also entail a healing process for him, whereby he begins to cherish his child and its mother.
    However, if he becomes angry and jealous of his child, it can result in a “shaken baby” injury if he is asked to baby-sit for a crying child.
    Or he may simply replace her with another woman who is a more attentive mother to him.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:01pm

  205. 205: ZaraNo Gravatar says:


    => The Black Madonna

    To this point, I have dealt with the three “practical” archetypes — the Playgirl, Amazon and the Mother — and their impact on women who self-destruct with narcissistic men.
    I now want to talk about the one unique to women.
    It is the spiritual, “abstract” archetype named the Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    Men have their three “practical” archetypal images in their psyches which match women’s — the Playboy, the Hero (Amazon) and the Father, but women alone have the Black Madonna or Madonna Inspiritus.

    The lack of actualization of The Black Madonna IS the foundation for why smart, attractive women put up and stay with inappropriate men. When a woman has the psychic ability to say “NO” to inappropriate men, even when chemically attracted, she is expressing her Black Madonna voice.

    Girls and women today may attend a religious center and not develop their Black Madonna.
    They may be sexually conservative and not develop their Black Madonna skills.
    Psychotherapy for past wounds will not do it.
    To develop the Black Madonna (Inspiritus), she must know how and when to say”yes” to men, sex, marriage, and motherhood.

    In Jungian, psychodynamic terms each woman has a balance of energy between her body (yin) and her animus (yang) soul.
    This balance manifests in three ways:

    -A balanced anchor which she uses to be a “feel-good” to “do-good” woman
    -A shovel whereby she gives pleasure to “him” and hopes he will reciprocate
    -A claw” — she is a Puella Aeternus (little girl forever) who expects him to shovel pleasure into her without regard for his needs.

    Every man has his persona body (yang) and his anima (yin) soul.
    He demonstrates balance in two ways:
    giving, protecting and cherishing (yang) women, children, animals and the planet
    living in his Puer Aeternus (little boy forever) whereby he uses and/or abuses women, kids, animals and the planet.

    I shall deal with the imbalanced “shovel” woman and her broken sister, the “claw,” before I describe a healthy, balanced, self-loving “anchored” woman.

    When the Playgirl Archetype manifests itself as a “shovel,” a girl/woman gives, protects and cherishes a man too much, especially sexually and financially.
    She is animus (yang energy) driven rather than receiving pleasure (yin) before giving back.
    Her ego strength is misaligned with her yang soul (animus) rather than her body.
    She is ego-dystonic rather than ego-syntonic; she is inside-out, unbalanced and susceptible to use and abuse by ego-dystonic men who are also inside-out.
    This man’s ego needs to receive pleasure (yin anima), and he must only be sexually available to women who are generous, protective and cherishing of his needs before their own (mommy).
    His sexual passive-aggressiveness is triggered when she complains about her needs.

    The Puella Aeternus “Claw” (yang) animus woman takes from helpless yin anima men (daddy).
    She is so narcissistic, as is a Puer Aeternus yin man, that she lacks compassion or appreciation for a good, balanced man.
    She preys on older men who are susceptible to their estrogen-enhanced oxytocin bonding.
    She likes to sexually seduce men as mistress, prostitute, or dominatrix for money.
    She is not vulnerable until she is post-menopausal when her self-esteem declines sexually. At that time, a con-man (yin), often younger, will turn the tables on her for financial gain.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:06pm

  206. 206: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Phew, that’s too much analysis for me. I feel dizzy and caged in reading that kind of analysis.

    I feel excited imagining six days in Ubud, with yoga, massage, and exploring … I feel excited about trying this free diving and going so deep on one breath.

    Today I saw the guy who runs this free diving just broke a world record – he went 96 meters into the sea on one breath … we have been taught our whole lives that such things are “impossible” … I find thinking about dating to be so small next to defying all bodily limitations … or even immersing myself fully in a massage …

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:06pm

  207. 207: ZaraNo Gravatar says:


    The remainder of this article deals with the healthy, balanced, ego-syntonic >“anchored” in her as a woman, a Black Madonna, a Madonna Inspiritus, a Goddess.
    When a woman is anchored by her animus (yang) soul, she will only say “yes” to what “feels good” to her body, thereby enhancing its health, prosperity and fertility.

    When a man is anchored by his loving anima (yin) soul, he “wants” to give, protect and cherish. He “wants” to “do good” to feel good about himself.
    He will have the courage to want and court a healthy woman with pleasure.
    He will give to get back and she will give back to get more.
    “Faint heart ne’r won fair maiden.”

    To be castrated or intimidated of his anima yin soul condemns him to either:
    Use women
    Be used by women who themselves are castrated of their animus yang soul ability to say “NO”, the Black Madonna power.

    A man “sees” what he wants.
    A woman “hears” what she wants.
    When this is reversed, the energy balance within each is unbalanced and needs spiritual healing (therapy by an aware counselor). How is this done? I recommend Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:12pm

  208. 208: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I see your point… he is still working on it, still with me, still saying I’m perfect for him…

    He does work from home, he does get up early for the financial market and he could meditate before our dates… yes… he pretty much has a very laid back and low stress life… he doesn’t work many hours a day..his days are pretty much his own, but he says he does need to be rested in order to work the financial market, which I understand it is a hard thing the market..and it is cut throat… so that I get…

    I have talked to him in depth about how WE could work it out… him meditate at my house when I’m putting my child to sleep, him meditating before he comes over for our dates, him maybe meditating more hours on the off days… and even sometimes going to his house after dinner for him to meditate and then us go dancing afterwards… I’ve been very flexible… and understanding …

    but constantly using his spirituality and meditation as a distancing block doesn’t feel right… b/c your right how is this ever going to change…

    I don’t know if he has a plan… I’d have to say No he doesn’t…which might be why I’m feeling the need to know if marriage is on the table still… that makes sense…

    Yes, for me, staying over 1 night at a time twice a month seems really non committal… and he justifies it by saying he isn’t ready… so after 6mos… when will he be ready? It just feels like he is dragging it out for some reason.. I just don’t know what the reason is…

    I told him last night that he is saying he isn’t ready so much that he is convincing me he really isn’t ready… and that it seemed like a mantra..

    Thanks so much! This is really helping me…


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:13pm

  209. 209: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Elsie I’m so glad your cir’ dating… I’m so proud of you… and I know it can be hard…

    I don’t think I might be the one to give advice here but I don’t keep a date unless it is a for sure plan the man has made and it’s clear… otherwise I assume it isn’t a date.. if he said he’d try to get a 1/2 day off to have lunch but didn’t confirm it…

    but don’t listen to me, too many other women on here with more experience…


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:19pm

  210. 210: ZaraNo Gravatar says:


    I shall use a composite case study and call her Sylvia.

    Sylvia is between 35-40, well-dressed, well-groomed, successful in her career or profession (often a therapist).
    She may have any ethnic or religious background with or without past marriages, legitimate or illegitimate children.
    She is either in a relationship with a yin-oriented, yang-deficient man or she wants out of a relationship with him.

    She may be physically abused, but she is always emotionally abused by inadequate, intimidating, women-hating men.
    These men at first seduce her with a cunning con sexually.

    Once she is “bonded,” the abuse begins.
    She “knows” he is bad for her and her child, but she cannot leave based on fear or guilt.
    In truth, she must be taught through her mind rather than her feelings because her feelings serve him rather than her.
    Being ego-dystonic causes a loss of her feeling experience and a loss of his logic (due to his exacerbated feelings).
    They fit together pathologically in a dance of symbiosis or learned helplessness.

    A thorough intake will reveal how the balance was lost as a child usually between 3 to 10 years.
    Special notice must be taken of unresolved issues with Dad. Was he gone? Drunk? Dead? Workaholic? Ill? Violent? Incesting? Was he castrated with his own issues?
    What about mom? What kind of role model was she?
    Was there an older “star” sister or a “baby” sister to compete with?
    Is there a “Momma’s boy” brother whom Dad rejected as a “sissy,” thereby putting pressure on Sylvia to perform more and process feelings less?
    Perhaps performance is the goal for everyone in the family and she naturally follows suit.

    Sylvia comes to the office when the pain becomes intolerable.
    She wants it all: home, children, career, love, and a good man who loves her and who show its.
    And, she wants it all NOW.

    The first behavioral agreement I get from Sylvia is NO SEX, intercourse with anyone, including “him”.
    If violence is involved, I ask her to move to a safe environment away from him in order to “detox” her off of the oxytocin.
    If necessary, she must have him arrested and put in jail or she must go to the police and file a stalking report.

    If she is unwilling to detox, she is trying to get emotional support from me, which she often is already receiving from girlfriends and other emotive therapists who do not realize that she is addicted to the oxytocin produced in her gonads and restimulated EVERY time she smells him with or without intercourse.
    Sylvia may need to “go out” there longer to hear what I am saying.

    If she is willing to “transfer” to me therapeutically, I ask her to begin reading materials which will educate her about the research backing my treatment.
    I also ask her to begin “duty dating” to desensitize her intellectual choice of men from “bad” to “good.”
    This entails flirting five minutes per day in a public place with men of all types. Bars are excluded because men under the influence of mind-altering drugs are yin-oriented and more of the “same old, same old..”

    Once per week, she must “present” herself passively (yin) to receive men’s attention. She can go to coffee bars, churches, dances, sports events, cultural events, educational events, and singles events. She flirts by looking into the eyes and smiling (yin), but NOT talking (yang) first. She speaks when spoken to; responds instead of acting first.

    Duty dating is uncomfortable for Sylvia because she must receive pleasurable attention without the “passion” of fast sex, drugs or booze to alleviate the anxiety of passivity (yin).
    Sylvia is more comfortable giving, protecting and cherishing him first when he flirts with her.
    Giving BACK(yin) is alien to her.
    She Gives to Get (yang), not Gets to Give BACK (yin) and therefore pleasure is not the motivator; addiction to oxytocin is.

    He only gives in the first dates or weeks.
    Then, he begins to use and abuse her helpless vulnerability due to her oxytocin addiction stimulated by him.
    This is manifested sexually, mentally, financially, socially and spiritually.
    It may take a long period of duty dating at least three men at the same time, until Sylvia is finally with a good man instead of a bad one.

    A good man finds and deflowers her with his loving ways.
    She may resist his advances at first, but eventually she will learn to feel the pleasure physically.
    Incremental desensitization is the therapeutic goal.
    I often advise Sylvia to not consummate the sexual relationship until engaged as a pragmatic behavior (which tells him, as warns her, that they are embarking on a sexual/social, monogamous, long-term marriage-bound, continuous relationship whose goal is mutual sexual and social pleasure, intellectual companionship, and an emotionally supporting family life with or without a career on the side.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:23pm

  211. 211: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “but constantly using his spirituality and meditation as a distancing block doesn’t feel right… b/c your right how is this ever going to change…

    I don’t know if he has a plan… I’d have to say No he doesn’t…which might be why I’m feeling the need to know if marriage is on the table still… that makes sense…”

    Exactly…how will it ever change? And that is what *he* needs to figure out. Anything you do to try and walk him through it is going to feel, to him, like controlling or trying to take away his freedom or getting in the way of his spiritual practice….

    He needs a reason to need to figure it out. Which is…that you need to not be waiting around for him to figure it out any longer. You’re gonna circular date until he can figure it out.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:24pm

  212. 212: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    You sound like me. When I have a short speech prepared I am at my best. Keep it simple. But, when it turns into a “discussion” and I go off script I start using language that isn’t productive and then we get off track and I beat myself up over it later…

    You need a short and sweet speech about how you feel about the positive things in the relationship, but you need more–you need nights together consecutively more than twice a month, sleepovers–and then say at this point you want to keep your option open. Make it 100% about you. He may walk away without resolution in the moment. That is when you have to be strong. But, like all the books and coaches say, if he loves you, he will figure it out.

    <3 hugs!

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:32pm

  213. 213: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    OMGosh… your right every time we sit and talk about ways to work it out for HIM… then it is about HIM…and not ME… and I need to focus on ME… and he is keeping the focus on him…. OMG…

    and your right… he might also see it as controlling… though for the most part he has been upset with me for not working it out with him and making a plan for it to work out for him…

    Yes, your right, I need to somehow get to circle dating until he figures it out… if he does…

    I can see now how I’m making it about him…. and so this is why I’m feeling the need to say, this is what works for me sleep wise… and he can either work it out within him to get ready or make it happen or we can just not sleep over anymore.. b/c your right I’ve been catering to his sleep needs…

    OMG… wow! I’m falling back into the same trap of allowing men to make it all about them… and bending over backwards… OMG…

    I’m so grateful! I see my pattern happening again… now I can stop it…

    He needs to work this out, not me…



    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:37pm

  214. 214: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    that so sounds like me…. I get off the script and then I’m cooked… I get off on emotions.. then I feel bad…

    Ok, I do need a speech.. a power speech… and I do need to make it about me…

    Oh dear, I’m not good at scripting yet… but @Elsie gave me a start… let’s see what I can come up with…

    and yes, I need to know if he loves me enough to work through this on his own… he might walk away… BUT I need to have my needs matter and I need to know if he is capable of working through this… and I need to stop bending over backwards for him….



    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:44pm

  215. 215: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    The 2002 movie “Duty Dating” inspired by the book “Getting to I do” written by Dr Pat Allen and Sandra Harmon, of which the first hard cover was published in 1994.
    (The Love Doctor in the movie is Dr Pat Allen’s character).


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:47pm

  216. 216: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “OMGosh… your right every time we sit and talk about ways to work it out for HIM… then it is about HIM…and not ME… and I need to focus on ME… and he is keeping the focus on him…. OMG…

    and your right… he might also see it as controlling… though for the most part he has been upset with me for not working it out with him and making a plan for it to work out for him…”

    Yep….its the classic “mommy issues”. He wants you to figure it out but if you did then he would feel smothered….UGH!

    If you do start setting some boundaries for yourself, I bet he will get cranky. You watch….

    :-) Happy that you are figuring all this out for you!


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:50pm

  217. 217: sophieNo Gravatar says:

    I was recently dumped by the guy I was dating for the most part because we came from different economic backgrounds and present status. He constantly commented that he was not enough for me. I never knew what to say. In a way it was a battle for us as I paid for many of our activities but on an emotional level I so enjoyed his company more than anyone with five times his money. I tried to reassure him but I never could. He always felt inferior. Any suggestions to try to win him back or help with the next one? I’m attracted to simple kind men so to speak so I see this being a problem in the future. Do I have to hide my money and pretend to be poor? What can I say or do?

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 9:58pm

  218. 218: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yep, I can see that now… since he has been talking to him mommy lots lately… a little too much really… which i was concerned about…

    Ok so he gets cranky when I set boundaries… then what? Besides keeping my boundaries.. and not bending over for him… what do I do… wait to see what he does with it?

    I think the answer is c’dating.. b/c I’m seeing so many red flags now… that I’m concerned.. and now I don’t even want marriage on the plate.. goodness.. mommy issues, self absorption issues, commitment issues….wow… might want to run from this one…


    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:06pm

  219. 219: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise – YOU decide what you want your cut off to be with regards to confirming a date :)

    For me, if it’s just a “oh we’ll catch up” vague plan or “lets go for lunch” but with no specific place or time, I won’t do anything – but if we’ve made plans for “lunch on friday” at a specific place I’ll send a quick text to confirm and ask that he let me know by a certain time so that I can go about my day.

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 10:57pm

  220. 220: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise – and with the vague plans, I won’t send anything but will have my own cut off – so if he were to text me in the morning on the day there was some vague plan for lunch then I’d just respond that I have made other plans & you snooze you lose (but in a playful, fun way).

    Thursday, 11 July 2013 @ 11:00pm

  221. 221: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Yep I agree, you snooze you lose.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:15am

  222. 222: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    This may be a totally off-the-wall way of dealing with this situation, but if it were me, I would ignore the money topic completely, probably until I couldn’t take the moans any more, and then I’d say in a rather sweet, tongue-in-cheek, affectionate way “either you can let me pay for this, or we can sit at home and do nothing ;)”.

    But what would concern me more is, are you really ok with paying for everything, or most things? I ask out of concern, because few girls would be. But if you truly are fully ok and at peace with it, then I wouldn’t let anyone make me feel bad about it, not even him. Over time, if you are comfortable with it and do not focus on it, he may also. If he is the right man for you, I believe he may be inspired to want to do more financially as he feels safe and the relationship progresses. That is, if that was the only reason you are not together any more?

    Just my two cents.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:48am

  223. 223: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I have decided to start a period (I don’t know how long it’s going to last) of focusing *only* on the positive in my life – what feels good, my blessings, the lovely things the people in my do, my good feelings towards them, away from any kind of blame or chastising myself or anyone else, and towards what feels better, in actions, thoughts and feelings. APPRECIATING the good things in my life and the lovely things that the people in it do, and letting the love in my heart expand.

    Not that the bad stuff doesn’t exist, but I’m choosing not to focus on it at all, for as long as this time lasts.

    Anyone who wants to join me, feel free :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:54am

  224. 224: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    D and I are seeing each other on Sunday. I can’t wait!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:55am

  225. 225: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    re: my post in 223, I am experimenting to see how this feels after a certain period of time, and what happens.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:57am

  226. 226: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 40 days is always a good timeframe to work with, as it’s known to be the amount of time it takes to change a pattern/habit/mindset :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:43am

  227. 227: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Have done some inner bonding boding work yes.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:19am

  228. 228: tryingtodogoodNo Gravatar says:

    Wow! This is consistent with what I’ve been reading lately and I’m thinking it is true for me too. I’ve been married to a toxic man for over 30 years and in the last few months have been concentrating on healing and growth and self acceptance. It has been a terribly painful process but I’m getting to the point of realizing that it’s so worth it. After all these years of having everything I said twisted, of being “punished” for raising grievances and so on, I’ve forgotten who I was and what I wanted from life. It’s been difficult to revisit those dreams and aspirations but now I am designing a life for myself that I want and I’m excited and hopeful again. I need do nothing to earn his love or deserve his love. I have just begun to show my real self and am delighted to say that people are responding in a wonderful way! My husband, not-so-much, but am no longer willing to “hide” myself or walk on eggshells. What will be, will be, but I will be me :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:25am

  229. 229: tryingtodogoodNo Gravatar says:

    P.S. This was a great entry Rori!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:26am

  230. 230: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – 182 – So you then get up, excuse yourself, and go to the restroom. With a big smile and all the confidence you cam muster in that moment. You CAN do this. :)


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:32am

  231. 231: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you ladies for chiming in !
    I do believe I have anxious attachment style. However, my childhood was perfect. Anyways…

    Ugh this can’t be normal especially when a guy is supposed to be interested in you and even takes the time during the night when he thinks you’re not awake to cover you up with the sheets :)! He’s such a gentlemen … of course we have passed the always trying to impress each other stage. But he still does so much for me.

    Nevertheless, it has now been 4-5 days since we last saw each other and talked. I feel like lashing out and attacking him and telling him I will not accept this kind of behaviour because I did in my last relationship and he took advantage of it ! I am not ok with this at all!!!! I am not ok with not hearing from him and not having him acknowledge me and my feelings. Instead I’m supposed to act like everything is ok and its not bothering me because this way he will still feel good about himself and will still stick around. I feel he should know this is not ok with me so that it can stop !

    This has happened before as I mentioned and I went cuckoo… when he called me back twice the day later and he text I didnt answer him and so it took him another full day b4 he begged me to call him so he could explain. His explanation was not good enough for me quite frankly but when I met up with him on a date he finally told me the truth. It had nothing to do with me … which is why I am trying to remain calm with him … but it does not feel authentic at all. Because I feel panicked and very angry ! He does plenty of nice things for me yet all I see is how his not calling me is a big show of disrespect towards me as though everything else but me is important to him.
    He does have a lot going on but I refuse to make excuses for him. I dont know how to deal with this sort of situation.

    5 days ! 5 days !!!! You have got to be kidding me ! and he thinks he can just waltz back in ! Pfff

    Angry, Arabian 😛

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:35am

  232. 232: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 223 – YAY YOU!!!

    Here’s more on this.



    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:43am

  233. 233: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    And another –



    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:44am

  234. 234: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    tryingtodogood – You are awesome. :)


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:45am

  235. 235: HanaNo Gravatar says:

    :( I am so confused, I feel like I’m in a situation that I can’t understand, I need an objective opinion?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 6:07am

  236. 236: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Zara- Thank you once again. From the top to the bottom THANK YOU:)

    …………………………… The Rise of the Black Madonna! I love that, sounds good to out loud and FEELS even better!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 6:44am

  237. 237: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Zara!!! I just checked out Dr. Pat Allen’s web site………… I live close and am going to her evening class!!!! I feel deep in my soul a very………very big something……..it’s big and really feels………………. right. I feel excited and anticipation for this. Thank you again! Rise of the Black Madonna indeed!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!! I am full of vim and vigor and a very big helping of Zippity Do Dah Day!!!!! Love ya, Seahorse

    p.s. ………..and the beach is right there too!!!! Double win!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 6:56am

  238. 238: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hana good to see you back.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:00am

  239. 239: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:


    But to delve a bit further into the realm of the Universal Laws, we rapidly see that the process of setting goals undermines the very intent of their acquisition.

    To set a goal, in and of itself, is to illuminate the “lack thereof.”

    So to say your “goal” is to drive a fancy sports car is in effect focusing on the lack of that tangible object in your life. And to further set your sights on daily activities that will bring about the acquisition of that fancy car is to continue to focus incessantly on that which you do not currently possess.

    In contrast, to “dream” of that fancy sports car in effect puts you in the driver’s seat (pun definitely intended)…

    As you feel the wind in your hair riding the highway of life – embracing the feelings and emotions you associate with being the owner of that prized possession.

    Feels totally different, doesn’t it?

    And in your “dreams,” as you feel the cool leather seats envelop your body, wrap your hands around the powerful steering wheel and shift into high gear, your reverie does not include pulling off to the side of the road to check off your ‘to do’ list for the day, does it?

    To the contrary, you are in the zone, at one with your dream – reveling in the moment.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:01am

  240. 240: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    Lovely picture of Rori!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:06am

  241. 241: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa you said…He does work from home, he does get up early for the financial market and he could meditate before our dates… yes… he pretty much has a very laid back and low stress life… he doesn’t work many hours a day..his days are pretty much his own, but he says he does need to be rested in order to work the financial market, I have talked to him in depth about how WE could work it out… him meditate at my house when I’m putting my child to sleep, him meditating before he comes over for our dates, him maybe meditating more hours on the off days… and even sometimes going to his house after dinner for him to meditate and then us go dancing afterwards… I’ve been very flexible… and understanding …

    Ok. Sweetie. Seriously. This man doesnt work much. He has a HUGELY flexibile schedule. This is the schedule and lifestyle that everyone dreams of. If he cant get it together now…….to make time for you in that VAST SEA OF TIME that he has now…….at the beginning of a relationship……

    OK – I dont want to be mean or upset you. I’m just asking you – if he cant seem to find a way to make time for you now when its totally easy, what about if he had to get a full time job, or someone got sick, or you really needed help with your kids, etc.

    My ex could NOT manage time. Or responsibilities. I wish someone had shaken me sooner. Hes not a bad person. He is just horrible at realtionships.

    You trying to manage this sounds just like I was. It NEVER works. Its like an alcoholic – you cant MAKE them get better, they have to get better themselves. So no matter how many “plans”or “ideas” you come up with it wont matter. He WONT do them. I promise you that 100%.

    I know you like this guy a lot. But, after reading all of this, please take the time to think if you want to invest another year or two and find out what you already know right now. (hugs)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:08am

  242. 242: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie/Dominique – the bathroom trick is a strategy known by men. I would never encourage that when its time to pay. I would just be up front and say oops I feel shaky and silly bringing this up, I thought I was being treated because I was invited out, are we on the same page or did I miss something. I would use it as an opportunity to tell myself relax, relax rather than choosing to run away. Then speak. Being the anxious type the bathroom option could heighten the anxiety that he is likely to pick up on.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:09am

  243. 243: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    CollegeCD did not text last night. But he texted this morning very very early and said “LUNCH TODAY!!!!!!!!! Where do you want to meet for eats?” I texted back “Good morning. You choose. :)”

    And so it begins…..lol.

    In the meantime, I took a lot of time last night and this morning making myself feel really pretty – and thought even if I dont go on this lunch date, I look awesome. :) LOL

    So – we’ll see what happens, but whatever does happen, boy I look CUTE today. :) LOL>

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:10am

  244. 244: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Feminine Woman – Yes, it seems “tricky” to me to do that…….LOL.

    Well, it would be hard to say all of that when the waiter is just STANDING there asking if we want separate checks. LOL.

    I think I’ll just look and say…..”This is awkward.” If he STILL doesnt say anything, then ugh. I dont know what I”ll do. I’m a mess in situations like that. I dont like the awkwardness and I do whatever I can to fill it up. LOL

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:21am

  245. 245: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Feel like I’ve come to a fork in the road with H. Don’t know what to do. Ugh! And I’ve been leaning WAY back because of it. I’m sure he feels it. Blah!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:18am

  246. 246: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Zara, phew! And whao…

    That Pat Allen stuff twizzled my brain. And totally intrigued my intuition.

    I was a ‘shovel’ early on in my relationship. Giving, massaging, showing how great I was.
    He responded, lapping it up.

    Since finding Rori, it has changed. I no longer give first. Often there is this huge void, which leaves me feeling starving for cherishment.

    If I give first, he lights up.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:24am

  247. 247: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I just wrote you a longish post and it disappeared in cyberspace, so I feel grizzly about that.

    Do you remember a few threads back – a siren was posting about your very dilemma, of being nervous about who is paying.

    If I remember rightly, she asked up front, using feeling messages – something like “I was wondering if we are going out on a date, or just buddies. Dating with you would feel fun. It would feel so good to be treated lke a lady”.

    Other sirens were posting feeling messages such as “It doesn’t feel feminine to pay”

    It would feel authentic to me, to say “I don’t feel feminine if I have to handle money on a date.” or “It feels unromantic, like a business lunch, if I am handling money”.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:32am

  248. 248: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for the hugs and love. I feel all sparkly inside receiving them.
    ((((((Lisa)))))) Hugs and love to you too.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:36am

  249. 249: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    In Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, there is a great chapter on why men stay away and what to say to them when they come back.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:37am

  250. 250: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    5 days is nothing. Men can show up weeks later and tell you they are in love.

    They need space away to sort out their emotions and feelings.

    Men need us to not need them. To be OK on our own.

    We don’t have to like it. But we do need to respect it.

    Men are not women. They don’t do or think like us.

    The worst thing you can do right now , well the 2 worst things, is to contact him or be angry when he finally contact you.

    You said yourself that this has already happened between you and him. So he is giving you another chance.

    Take all the emotions you are feeling, and making it about him and use those to learn about yourself. “It’s never about him”…..


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:50am

  251. 251: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: I also wrote you a comment that got lost. It went something like this:

    I like the words “This feels awkward” with a smile. If it were me, after that lunch (or right after the waiter walks away), I would bring it up again. Something like “I really hate the awkward silence when the check comes. For me personally, I’m very used to men paying when they ask me out and it feels really good to be treated. What are your thoughts on it?” And see what he says.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:50am

  252. 252: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Zia :) 40 days sounds good, and it’s symbolic.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:52am

  253. 253: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie 119

    I just wanted to say, make sure your tears are the sad kind. I’ve realized sometimes we label our tears as sad because, well, we must be sad if we’re crying, right? I think sometimes our inner soul cries in relief, and absolute love for us, when we make a decision that moves us forward, and we call it sad, but maybe it is something else.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:55am

  254. 254: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Well, week one of my “not even touching the oars” experiment was a colossal failure… LOL

    Ok, it wasn’t that bad…. I’m not rowing.

    Anyway, Rori’s newsletter today reminded me exactly why and how I need to do this. I know it works with CW when I use her reconnect tools.

    CW is driving down today and will be here for 4-5 days so I can practice not picking up the oars in person…

    Rori Raye Dance Position!!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:56am

  255. 255: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wild Geranium 250

    I need to read your post over and over again until it sinks in. D was loving on Wednesday night and has said we can see each other on Sunday night, and I feel a gentle vibe from him, but he has been very scarce with contact yesterday and today, especially after the “painful” comment. I need to remember that he needs time to sort out his feelings.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:59am

  256. 256: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I’m happy in myself, and I’m unhappy in my relationship.

    What is that saying to me????

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:02am

  257. 257: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    This is so true. There are happy tears and sad tears. But sometimes what we think are sad tears are actually more like tears of relief or release…

    I just realized… It’s like “the soup” of emotions forces its way out of us if we are not expressing it naturally with feeling messages as the feelings arise. It comes out in tears.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:03am

  258. 258: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I’m addicted to Daddy’s indifference?

    Please, can anyone give tips on how to heal this?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:05am

  259. 259: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – I totally hate it when I write a huge long thing and the internet eats it up….lol

    All of things sound good – but I cant just cant see myself saying it – It sounds weird and artificial to me.

    I wish I could think of something that infused a bit of humor into it – “This feels awkward” might be ok.

    Since this is still a lunch, during work hours, I feel like its borderline. He did ask me out, but its a lunch during work hours, so its just weird. Now if he took me out at night and didnt pay, it would be OVER. I dont like that at ALL. Zero. Its just here we were just friends 20 years ago…..so its this vague weird area….LOL.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:05am

  260. 260: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 247

    I love your feeling message :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:07am

  261. 261: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    What about Mercedes suggestions?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:07am

  262. 262: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique, thank you.

    I re-visit your articles often.

    I swore to myself that if D and I get into a relationship, I will get coaching from you.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:08am

  263. 263: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Indigo

    I would like to join you for a period of *appreciating the positive*


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:11am

  264. 264: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Sometimes when I’ve felt unsure how I would feel about the whole paying thing beforehand, I’ve known afterwards.

    So it would be no big deal if you did what felt ok to you at the time, and then saw how *that* felt afterwards. Then you would know for certain how you felt about it, and could script something based on your feelings.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:11am

  265. 265: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Positive things about being with a man who waits for me to initiate:

    I get to feel how weird and awkward and uncomfortable it is, and I get triggered to pain and anger and I get to love myself anyway.

    I have a kind of freedom ?? That feels weird to write.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:13am

  266. 266: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Indigo :-)

    After reading Alison Armstrong I really GOT how unfair it is of us women to get angry or anxious when men are just being men. It really isn’t fair.

    We sabotage the situation so often. When we really just don’t need to DO anything for their love and adoration. Except let them feel it and express it on their own time schedule. If we don’t like the schedule, then we are free to move on.

    When we get anxious and needy men feel like we are more interested in what they represent, not in them as people. And that makes them not want to commit and not want to be vulnerable.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:13am

  267. 267: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo 264,

    Yeah, totally. Like a feeling message about what just happened. Like “I feel strange and gnarly and awkward about what just happened. I’m not even sure why. I just got a swirly butterfly feeling in my belly”.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:15am

  268. 268: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie- It was Andrea who wrote that about her date and the check coming. She had said she didn’t do anything and actually said it got to the point where they were down to the last swallow in their water glasses before the subject was broached. It was the last thread, I believe. It is was a great post by her.

    Thanks Andrea!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:17am

  269. 269: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, I’m excited for you re. your date on Sunday! :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:20am

  270. 270: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    April rose-

    Yes- you need to talk to the little girl inside you who experienced Daddy’s indifference. She needs to know she is loved and you will never leave her. As long as she is in charge she’ll keep picking men with the indifferent quality, hoping that this time it will be different. She needs to stop looking for men to be the “perfect” parent. Instead you, April Rose, get to be her perfect parent. You are the only one who can be. Give her your love and attention but let her know that you are now in charge.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:21am

  271. 271: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    265 April Rose- That felt good to read. Feels open and ……….. very loving to you. Small and yet so very big:)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:21am

  272. 272: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    This morning I noticed anger about something silly, had nothing to do with men or dating. I got present with it and noticed it’s just a feeling … it feels the same as anger about anything else. It’s always coming from a thought that probably isn’t even true. This morning I didn’t need to go down the whole staircase of anger, just noticed it and said hello anger and then let it morph into something that felt better.

    I signed up a client that I met on my Costa Rica trip. This gets me even more excited about Bali. Such a fabulous way to meet people and let the Universe bring the right clients to me.

    I noticed feeling more empowered for the first time in another situation involving a man. Which happened paradoxically by not focusing on men or dating at all. I’m gonna keep going with this …

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:37am

  273. 273: elsieNo Gravatar says:

    He is 10 min late….have i ever mentioned i hate that? Ugh

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:39am

  274. 274: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Wildgeranium- I feel so great reading you. I want to say thank you for your voice here……………. THANK YOU:) I had a geranium that was a scented one and it was a ‘Apple’ scented geranium. It was a favorite of mine, not just for it’s scent,which was so light and sweet yet clean smelling, it was the neatest plant…………………. You could break off a trailing bit and pop it right into the soil and in a couple of days new growth and before long a whole new happy plant. And thank you for the happy memory;)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:40am

  275. 275: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Elsie first thanks for you last post to me… I hear you! I’m totally looking at that also…

    I mean it is my choice to have the busy life I have with being a mom and having a home to care for. And he has worked hard to have a leisure life… and I also feel that if a relationship is to develop that, there needs to be a rubber effect… meaning he would have to bounce over to me some with time and not be so rigid about his schedule. When mine isn’t so leisurely…

    On the subject of checks and paying… I look for their hand movements and eye movements ( I learned that from a dating coach). I sit there like I’m a queen and that there is no other option but for him to pay… the awkward silence doesn’t bother me b/c I’m not paying… and mostly this has worked for me. I learned to calm myself and ask myself what is the worst that could happen… and then I just allow the fear to pass through me…

    If a guy moves his hand towards the tab or check he wants to pay… OH how funny I had one man actually put the check towards the edge of the table so I could see it… I didn’t look of course and started looking at people and the street etc… then I finished our conversation and he paid…

    Really that is about the only time and there are times when I knew he would pay and I got my wallet out and then he would say OH please allow me to treat you, and I’d say yes, thank you! so I kind of would use my intuition about it…

    If a man expects to go dutch, then he needs to tell me… I even said that to “M” the other night when he said what food do you have for dinner if I bring the meat. I said I don’t have any, then I looked and I did have lettuce… I said though if I’m going to need to contribute to dinner at home, I need to know in advance so I can shop. Then I said, I don’t really have anything I’ll have to go shop…. He called me back and ask me to go to dinner out… that was nice…

    Sorry for the long post…oops…


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:47am

  276. 276: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    Thanking you through sobs that feel wrenched from deep within my body.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 9:50am

  277. 277: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    263 April Rose, Indigo: Ditto! Here’s to focusing on the positive! Thanks for the reminder, ladies! Let’s do it! :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 10:11am

  278. 278: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    #274 thank you Seahorse. This is a wonderful place :-)

    #276 April Rose –big love to you…..The big sobs are good for us. They are truly cleansing.

    All of this is a process of letting go of what we are clinging to in the moment….

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 10:31am

  279. 279: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – 244 – I don;t agree about going to the restroom, yet I do think you will have to say something eventually, just not here as the first one to speak. You may have to summon all you have to quell the anxiety and hugely uncomfortable feelings. And I want you to continue to sit there, smiling sweetly, openly.

    When and if he says anything to you, you state simply that you feel enormously uncomfortable/embarrassed/weird/maybe even a little angry, yet you don’t want to pay for dates.

    You could add that you are a little old-fashioned around this.

    No – what do you thinks or what can we do here. No more than this is more than plenty to say. If he can;t handle this, then oh well. It’s not your job to look after his feelings.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 11:08am

  280. 280: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Wooo hoo!!!!!

    Went on my date, he was a bit late, but it ended up ok. He and I ended up having lunch for an hour and a half and it was fantastic. So fun. REALLY fun. We got into a lot about our lives, etc. Its like no time has passed for us.

    He did ask if I had dated other people and I said yes. He started to say something about online dating, and I didnt know if he was telling me I should do that or not – it was a bit awkward.

    So – the check comes and this time the waitress just puts it on the table. Fantastic. because I’M NOT EVER REACHING FOR IT. LOL!!!

    He of course reached for it and paid. I got to say thank you at the end and it was very nice. He said that we should meet again soon, etc. So we’ll see.

    Last time he texted me and said thank you.

    I feel like because he paid this time, and I want to tell him that I apprecaite that and encourage that….I want to text him later today and say thank you again. :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 11:45am

  281. 281: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you again for your advice ladies and a special thanks goes out to you Wildgeraniums :) !

    I will let him take the lead.

    and see what he does and what happens :) . Ive been pushing i believe … Anyways i was very happy to read what you wrote and it touched me immensely.

    Thank you for empowering me!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 11:50am

  282. 282: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Wow! Thank you :-) good luck Arabian!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 11:56am

  283. 283: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you ladies. I feel like I am more of a siren today than I have been in a long time. Its all due to Mercedes, Dominique, and ALL of you – thank you.

    By the way – Operation No Contact (hereinafter known as “ONC”) is working wonderfully for me. I have not said one word to him today. Go me.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:00pm

  284. 284: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    That feels more fun, Elsie :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:03pm

  285. 285: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “He started to say something about online dating, and I didnt know if he was telling me I should do that or not – it was a bit awkward.” … Maybe trying to assess his competition? :-)

    Don’t text him!!!!!!! That is what women do to each other after a nice lunch. He’ll just wonder why you are saying it again. It’ll feel like chasing to him. Stop leaning forward. Don’t utter another single solitary peep via any communication device to him.

    You need do nothing.

    Wait and see what he does. The suspense *will not* kill you.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:03pm

  286. 286: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    By the way – Operation No Contact (hereinafter known as “ONC”) is working wonderfully for me. I have not said one word to him today. Go me.

    ” one day at a time ” LOL right?

    I need to do my operation let go of the oars ODAAT too- the whole 40/90 day thing is just tripping me up…..duh

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:07pm

  287. 287: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    When I was in Costa Rica, all my cash got stolen out of the spa locker. I stood up for myself and it worked out fine but in the meantime I was at the pool bar. A man next to me asked how my day was going so I was still in shock and told him about the situation. He only stayed a few minutes and left the area.

    When I went to pay my bill, the bartender told me that man had already paid my bill. That kind of giving from a man feels great. He didn’t pay it to get sex from me, as he wasn’t ever going to see me again. He paid it because he wanted to brighten up my day. That felt wonderful :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:08pm

  288. 288: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    congrats WildGeranium :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:09pm

  289. 289: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 263 & Liquid Light 277

    Yay! I feel thrilled. We can encourage each other :)

    Because for sure we are going to get tested on this.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:15pm

  290. 290: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Red Alert LOL…..GS contacted me and wanted to “just chit chat and talk because he wasnt busy.” I just said thank you but I have a lot of work to get done and got off the phone.

    Score. Go me. Operation No Contact is so far a success. I feel great.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:16pm

  291. 291: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 265

    Yes, these were the sorts of thoughts I was experimenting with too… what is the lesson in this? how can I feel better? how can I show my own love to myself through this?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:20pm

  292. 292: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yay, congrats Elsie :) Everyone sounds so strong today :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:20pm

  293. 293: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Wild Geranium 266

    You are very right.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:22pm

  294. 294: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @ Erika – Thanks. Although I’m just glad I didnt have to deal with the check issue LOL!!!!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:22pm

  295. 295: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 267

    Yes! That is what I meant. I like to keep experimenting a little bit when I’m unsure, until I *know* what I feel.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  296. 296: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light 269

    ah thank you :) I hope Sunday comes soon.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:28pm

  297. 297: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    He just likes having me around.

    That is how it seems.

    He is in his room now, door closed, eating his dinner and watching telly. It’s Friday evening.

    I got a hug earlier. So I suppose I should be thankful. (That was a sarcastic remark).

    I feel choked and sick in my heart.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  298. 298: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I want to formulate a plan, with my masculine energy, to liberate my girl energy from this desperate half-dead situation.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:42pm

  299. 299: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose. I was also in a place where I was doing what a man liked (having me around).

    What do YOU want to do tonight? I dont know where you live – but can you go do something? Do you HAVE to stay there?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:46pm

  300. 300: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Any help, tips, feelings experience will be much appreciated.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:46pm

  301. 301: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Elsie,

    It’s quite late now, nearly 9pm, otherwise I would have gone to the pictures or for a walk in the park. I haven’t been out today :-(

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:48pm

  302. 302: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose

    “desperate half-dead situation”

    is there some part of you, however small, that feels this way about yourself? How can you get back to the parts of yourself that make you feel joyful and alive?


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:48pm

  303. 303: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie, it kinda feels like you changed your own energy around the situation and so you created something new. A waitress responded to the energy and nobody expected you to pay. Feels more fun :)

    I took a luxurious hot shower a little while ago and washed my hair. I don’t wash it every day because it’s so long. Now I can feel the cleanness of my scalp, and it’s still a little wet. The window is cracked open for fresh air, and I can feel the freshness of the breeze on the back of my neck and all the way up my scalp to my ponytail. This feels very good and very alive :) My apartment also feels clean and fresh, and I’m wondering what I can do today that will feel good …

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:54pm

  304. 304: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, Indigo,
    I felt those joyful parts when he was away. I so wanted to share them when he returned. I did my best. I went first, he responded.
    Then I messed up. I had PMS and started to get fussy about the way he was doing things, half in jest. It pushed him away. That was days ago.

    Yes, I do feel that way about myself (half-dead) in his company.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 12:57pm

  305. 305: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose

    Remember what we said about focusing on the positive? No chastising of self allowed. You cannot mess up <3

    Those joyful, alive feelings are still in you, regardless of him, even if you may not think so.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  306. 306: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April – 9pm on a Friday night is EARLY! :) Where do you live?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:05pm

  307. 307: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – seriously GO somewhere. A coffee shop, a bar and get one beer, movies are on at 10pm, get out get out get out of that stale stagnant house!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:06pm

  308. 308: SassyNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose,

    I feel curious, were you ever happy with him when you were in the masculine and he in the feminine? Do you feel that wasn’t working for you and your relationship?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:09pm

  309. 309: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah Indigo,

    My plan to make a plan had me feeling positive.

    What makes me feel joyful? Cuddling myself. Listening to Rori’s programs. Being in nature.
    What makes me feel alive? Dancing, zumba, singing, cycling, laughing (my favourite)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:09pm

  310. 310: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie, I love you!

    “@April Rose – seriously GO somewhere. A coffee shop, a bar and get one beer, movies are on at 10pm, get out get out get out of that stale stagnant house!!!”

    Can I come and live next door to you where you live? Sounds great there.

    I’m in a farming county in a forgotten corner of the UK. Only things still open around here are the potato fields, oh and a Chinese restaurant.
    You are spot on about stale stagnant house – you have no idea. The building I live in is a converted prison. 150 years ago people used to be routinely sentenced to hang or get deported to Australia from here.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:14pm

  311. 311: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – 280 – You don’t really need to say thank you again, yet if you feel compelled, do so, and say it felt good spending time with him. Please no mention of the tab/money.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:16pm

  312. 312: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I did okay for a year or so playing the masculine role (my grandma was my main role model! She took charge of everything).

    I listened to Dr Pat Allen today and she said it makes women ill when its that way round, and I choose to believe her.

    She says a man’s role is to “give, protect, cherish”.

    Just now WM’s role seems to be “begrudge, withdraw, wait”.

    Another thing that showed up in our Carol Allen report is that in our particular combination, the woman is more bonded to the man. It can make it hard to walk away, because it makes her feel like he is ‘the one’.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:23pm

  313. 313: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Dominique – OHHH!!! i LOVE THAT. I was trying to think what to say. I love that it felt good spending time with him. You are a word genius. :) Put that on your resume.

    @April Rose – the country of the UK is beautiful. I love the Cotswolds, I love up north too. I’m a fan. :) Sounds lovely and quiet. Well, until you got to the part about the prison and people dying. LOL – not so lovely then. :) Ok – then go to the stinkin’ Chinese restaurant and get some crab rangoon and fortune cookies. Come on – there isnt one bar open in a farming community? :)

    And yes, come live next door – actually the people next door to us are selling their house – come on. :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:23pm

  314. 314: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Wow. I had a lot of happy faces in the last post. haha. One more for good measure. :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:24pm

  315. 315: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Dr Pat Allen, in her video 6 1/2 Secrets of Love (on youtube) says

    “Giving too much, protecting too much, and cherishing too much are very dangerous invitations to distress, to cortisol, and they’re invitations to illness. Happy women are women who pay attention to appreciating what they get, and saying no to what they don’t want. They don’t get into rebuilding people or making other people’s lives work at their expense”

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:28pm

  316. 316: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose,

    When I lived on a farm, I would go outside (yes, in the middle of the night) and sing to the horses. Or I would walk through the trees or sit in the moonlight, or stare out into the expanse of nature until I felt myself again. Those things you mentioned sound wonderful. I know you will find your joy again, and when you do, you will be clearer on WM.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:29pm

  317. 317: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I love how bouncy your energy feels.
    Makes me want to do happy faces too :-) :-) :-)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:31pm

  318. 318: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – I’m TOTALLY bouncy today.

    I have my boundaries in place with GS. He doesnt know that he is part of Operation No contact, but I”m sure he already feels it – today is the first day, and after this, and the whole weekend, and probably about Tuesday he will start to feel feel it…..its ok – its not my deal. Its HIS deal we are where we are.

    Plus, I had a great lunch date with cutest. guy. ever. Dang, he is cute. And SOOOO funny. Its so easy with him, just funny and fun and easy. Loved it. He asked at the end – so do you want to go? (meaning lets walk outside) and I just smiled and looked down and said no……I’d rather stay here and talk. :) he was beaming, and then we had to go because we both had spent way too long on our lunch hour, but it was so fun. And the hug at the end….yummy.

    I may actually have ANOTHER date tonight – just meeting at a bar for a couple of drinks.

    Hey – this is all Mercedes’ fault. She told me to circular date. LOL.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:37pm

  319. 319: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – I am now reading all your posts in a British accent by the way. :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:38pm

  320. 320: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “@April Rose – I am now reading all your posts in a British accent by the way.”


    That would be my advice, April Rose, to get really dolled up and go out,even if its just to the grocery store (HE doesn’t need to know where you are going)…. I’m so sorry you can’t do that :-(

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:51pm

  321. 321: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – I hope you are NOT reading this. I hope you are at that ridiculous Chinese restaurant OR shopping in high heels as Wildgeranium just stated. :) GOOOOO!!!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 1:54pm

  322. 322: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m still finding myself thinking about BM but it’s shifting a bit. I notice now that I can actually feel the difference when I’m thinking about him and when I’m not. When I do think about him I’m hardly present, I’m feeble and when I don’t there’s this smidgen of vitality. I don’t know where that’s going but I’m okay with not knowing for now.

    And it feels like too much work to even be with him, even if I had decided to be with him, it feels like an application process. no. I notice that feeling but I don’t really want to go there, knowing is enough.

    And then as I was walking this really good looking guy was walking out the store and looking at me. I’m not 100% sure it happened, I was a bit taken aback, but I felt NOTICED and it felt really good. I still don’t have the guts to smile but its okay, that lingering energy of him noticing me was enough. It felt as though he would have hung around for a while, but this is all feeling that I’m doing and so I’m not sure if it’s actually happening. I’m just really struck by the feeling.

    Just walking around with this attentiveness is intriguing – I feel as though I’m more aware of other people’s energy (not in any psychic way, just like I’ve turned myself towards that interest) but now also my own. And then I spent an hour or two looking at books and it felt good to lose myself in that for a while.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:02pm

  323. 323: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – had PMS and started to get fussy about the way he was doing things, half in jest. It pushed him away.

    April Rose I have felt really put off by your humor, more than once.

    If that is the point where you believe things got stuck between you and him maybe bringing it up and talking about it might release the energy between you two. Who knows, maybe there is something about your sense of humor that he doesn’t like but is not saying?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:10pm

  324. 324: Shar Lean Way BackNo Gravatar says:

    Malene, Yes definantely block his number. I did that with my now husband. It was very powerful for me and had nothing to do with him at all. Then I wasn’t constantly checking my phone and email to see if he was calling etc. He did try and when I didn’t respond he emailed my sister to see if I was “o.k.” :) But to get that result was not what I was after and I would not do it expecting he will change. I was ready to move on !

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:23pm

  325. 325: Shar Lean Way BackNo Gravatar says:

    Malene, you can have his number BLOCKED..I haven’t read all the comments so not sure if you have done that or not. But you call your service provider and ask them to block the number. They will either tell you how or do it themselves. I can’t remember exactly..

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:28pm

  326. 326: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – I’m with you after 9pm and I’m like go out? now?! And I live in the city! Maybe it’s an English thing :) I lived in Argentina once and they were all going out when I was going to bed :) Though going out and looking at the stars sounds lovely – I love the silence and the stillness of the countryside.

    I am trying to do the positive thing Indigo – today has been a day of noticing that I’m not very good at negotiations and very good at arguing for my limitations eg are you sure you want to pay that for my dress on ebay it has the minutest of stains? i’m sure you may be able to get a better employee than me I understand if you do? i’m sure you don’t want to be my boyfriend…

    I feel happy to recognise that I’m doing it – I went onto photo editor and designed lots of photos of me with positive affirmations over my head – it felt good

    Any one else got any good tips for the old self confidence thing?

    Also, anyone know how I can change my photo on here? it is somewhat lacking in anonymity :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:33pm

  327. 327: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Taking my own advice.

    My CD for tonight (not CollegeCD) just cancelled on me.

    No biggie – water on a ducks back, baby!!!

    I’m off to the bar (thats “pub” for you April Rose) with a friend in one hour.

    Sweet. I’ll circular date my damn self. :) LOL.

    How many drinks do you think I can get boys at the bar to buy me? LOL

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:37pm

  328. 328: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    I”m not wasting this cute outfit for nothing. :) LOL

    Man, I feel more like myself today than I have in a long time. Operation No Contact is a raging success (on day one…..LOL.)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:38pm

  329. 329: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie – You can only do so by deleting your photo altogether from showing up anywhere. If you change your gravatar to something which isn’t a photo of you, this will show up everywhere instead of your photo, including here.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:41pm

  330. 330: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie/Dominique: It could also work if you create a different email address to use on this site (like just a basic free hotmail address or yahoo, etc) and don’t create a gravatar profile associated with that email address. Then, you can post here using the new email (with no gravatar) and you will just have the basic flower instead of your photo.

    Or…you can take that new email and associate it with a gravatar account but use a picture you like that isn’t of you.

    Much Love,

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:48pm

  331. 331: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Dominique – I thought that might be the case – ok I shall go back to being an anonymous rose :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:48pm

  332. 332: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Okay ladies, I did it. I went out for a walk. I passed the pubs where the drunk men were. At the other end of this very small town there is a kebab shop. I went in and ordered chips (that’s “fries” to you Elsie), and my lovely Turkish friend was working in there. We had a lovely chat and it felt so sweet to see her. I asked her if she had a man, and her face lit up “no, I’m free!” she said.

    When I got back I sat and ate my chips and had a glass of coke. Some were leftover so I knocked on WM’s door and offered them to him. He didn’t want them!

    FW, my sense of humour to me feels devilish and delightful and I love it so much. Other people that can see me in it and ‘get’ me are what I’d call a good match. Maybe you and I just ain’t compatible, honey.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:55pm

  333. 333: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Ah Mercedes yes! That’s an idea! – ok I shall make that a project – thank you (both) xx

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:56pm

  334. 334: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “I notice now that I can actually feel the difference when I’m thinking about him and when I’m not. When I do think about him I’m hardly present, I’m feeble and when I don’t there’s this smidgen of vitality.”

    Veronica, yes! Resonates with me :) Feeble … what a yucky feeling!

    So I actually think the “bad” giving is the same in men and women, and I’ve seen plenty of men do it including creepy guy.

    “Bad” giving is when we have no agreement with the other person and we are “giving to get.” It could be giving energy, which for me ends up feeling “feeble” like Veronica says. Or it could be “giving” anything else. It’s not real giving. Because it’s trying to get something. And men do it too. When they do it, it feels yucky just like when we do it.

    Real giving is giving for yourself. This is when I’m on FB and I don’t really have to go out of my way and help someone expecting nothing in return. It feels good in the moment, I don’t resent it later, and in fact I probably forget about it a few minutes later. Real giving is what the guy did for me in Costa Rica. I’m sure it felt good to him to brighten someone’s day with no expectation of anything back, and it felt good to both of us.

    I just think most of the time when we are “bad” giving, we are not necessarily being honest with ourselves about our motivations. Or at least I’ll speak for myself. My original blog was real giving at the beginning because I was having fun with it and doing it for me. It was only later in the year when it started to feel like “work” without enough return, then I had to be honest with myself and realign everything so I could receive what I wanted with explicit agreements and expectations instead of “giving to get.”

    Not sure if that makes sense, the clarity feels good to me though :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:56pm

  335. 335: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Okay ladies, I did it. I went out for a walk. I passed the pubs where the drunk men were. At the other end of this very small town there is a kebab shop. I went in and ordered chips (that’s “fries” to you Elsie), and my lovely Turkish friend was working in there. We had a lovely chat and it felt so sweet to see her. I asked her if she had a man, and her face lit up “no, I’m free!” she said.

    When I got back I sat and ate my chips and had a glass of coke. Some were leftover so I knocked on WM’s door and offered them to him. He didn’t want them!

    FW, my sense of humour to me feels mischievous and delightful and I love it so much. Other people that can see me in it and ‘get’ me are what I’d call a good match. Maybe you and I just ain’t compatible.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 2:56pm

  336. 336: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    I love a good sense of humor. It’s kind of a must in my book. 😉

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:01pm

  337. 337: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    mmmm just realised my ‘overcompensating’ in all areas – work; negotiating money etc is major leaning forward – major efforting – i seriously need to practice the leaning back in those areas of my life too – just sitting with it and breathing when it feels so uncomfortable I might burst – i can more or less manage the leaning back with men now and that took a lot of breathing so if i apply some conscious effort i can shift it in these areas too

    I am the prize
    I am the prize
    I am the prize

    I havent been acting like the prize I have been acting like I’ll take crumbs all over the place – Like I’m a scared little girl who just wants people to like me; like I’m not talented and you don’t have to pay me much; like (as I’ve said) before everyone’s needs and wants and opinions are more important than mine

    Wow! I feel exhilaration for the day when I finally feel my worth in my bones and I act from that place

    Today’s Louise Hay affirmation was “I am my favourite person” i’m going to put that on a picture too :) and i’m going to make an i am the prize picture

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:08pm

  338. 338: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    He called !

    I didnt answer though … Im still feeling angry !
    I guess ill wait until he calls again…

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:13pm

  339. 339: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Yay!!!!! And, good for you. I’ve done that too. Not answered when I knew my reaction would not be ideal. His imagination is probably spinning now….

    Just a thought…. He may call you and just test the water…he may not ask to see you right away. Of course, I have no idea what he will say or do. But, that scenario has happened to me before.

    The important thing is that you keep your vibe warm and friendly and don’t lean forward in terms of asking for or suggesting anything. Just receive what he gives even if its just a short conversation to see how you are.

    Good for you in not answering when you were still mad :-)


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:35pm

  340. 340: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    I’m looking cute today – I am having a good hair day and I feel like I look sexy.

    I could actually imagine myself flirting with someone and I haven’t felt like that in months!

    OK, those were a few positives, ladies..what do you think? How am I doing? Hahaha!! :)

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 3:41pm

  341. 341: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    :) thank you wildgeranium!

    Would leaning forward consist also of calling him back ?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:26pm

  342. 342: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    If he left a message and said the words to “call him”, then call him.

    If he just left a message but did *not* say ” call me ” don’t call.

    If he didnt leave a message don’t call him.


    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:31pm

  343. 343: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Elsie 306 – 8:30/9:00 is usually about the time I’m headed out on Friday and Saturday nights. That seems to be when all the action starts. More people to cd with.

    Something that’s come up lately…open to any thoughts. Lately H has been asking me things like “Where’d ya go?” “What happened to ya?” and when I say I’ve been busy he then says “So what’s kept you so busy?”. BUT…when we women pose these questions to them, then it’s considered being clingy and needy. Why?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:43pm

  344. 344: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise 290: YAY you!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:54pm

  345. 345: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Hana: what’s up?

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 4:58pm

  346. 346: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Hello! Been keeping up with the blog but in the past only have posted during a crisis but i felt like checking in and saying hi instead of lurking haha.

    things are a little better. Even though my guy and I are taking space things feel better because I’m practicing releasing expectations and that’s when he comes forward.

    I’ve also been circular dating.. Not actually DATING but just having fun with friends, and then ok this is an interesting situation. I guess I’m kind of naive with men I dont’ have much experience because I’ve only been with a few boys always around my age.

    A few weeks ago my girls and I went out to a bar and I got along with this man who is 18 years older than me (41) from Ireland. He was buying us drinks and told us he owned the restaurant/bar next door so he invited us to eat dinner for free which was super sweet. And had been texting me to hang out ever since. I finally met up with him for lunch yesterday because I really got along well with him but I wasn’t thinking of it as a romantic thing. I just want to meet new friends in the city and I love challenging myself and meeting new people when I’m nervous. I felt awkward as soon as I got there though because ti was a nice place and I even offered to pay because I wanted to keep the “friend” vibe. Then at the end of lunch when started asking me if we could date I had to explain to him that I’m in a complicated situation with someone but it’s not resolved so I don’t want to have anything romantic with anyone else. I said I’d love to be friends and I’m serious. I lived in Europe last year for a year and I LOOVE European people and making new friends. And he said he understands and that’s ok but then he’s texting me “xxxx when can I see you again?” and I feel weird about leading someone on even though I was very upfront…I don’t know if that’s guilt that I’m conditioned to feel or if it’s okay. What do you guys think?

    Also my boy came over last night and I was gonna tell him about my day and that I had lunch with a new friend but I didn’t because I was tired and I had a feeling he would be jealous…IF we were committed and serious again I would say something but I didn’t know if there was a point if I wasn’t cheating, just friends with a new man.

    Is this part of circular dating? I dont know exactly. it was very fun yesterday and i don’t feel like i did anything wrong as i was upfront with this guy and even offered to pay cause i didn’t want the wrong vibe sent out.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 5:10pm

  347. 347: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Wow something really wild is happening for me … a “sleeper” effect I think from all these hundreds of videos I recorded that haven’t been released …

    I’m finding myself in these pretty passionate discussions and I’m expressing myself passionately, yet I’m no longer feeling any need to “shut out” the other person’s perspective. I’m not even thinking they are “wrong.” I’m feeling very both/and at a deep and authentic level. This feels quite fascinating …

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 6:10pm

  348. 348: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Totally went to the pub and got drunk. LOL. Love it. :)

    Ok – April Rose – first off, I know what kebAAAAABs are Yes that is how you say it…..and I know what chips are as well. Although there was a bit of a difference when my kiwi/aussie friends had to deal with jandals versus thongs. LOL. (We think thongs are the things you wear on your feet…..LOL)


    I am texting College CD back because he has been texting me tonight.

    Of course, as you all know, I wish I were texting GS…..I almost did drunk text him. I”m glad I decided against it. Ugh.

    Ok I’m a little tipsey, so I have to go back and read what everyone has written. ,

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:56pm

  349. 349: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Liquid LIght – Awesome that you are having a good hair day. :) and that you think you look awesome…..that is awesome. :) I love those days!!!!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 7:58pm

  350. 350: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – I THINK IT TOTALLY ROCKS THAT YOU WENT OUT LAST NIGHT. I’m sitting here thinking about it and I’m so proud of you!! Seriously – that is AWESOME. No matter how icky British kebabs are. :) LOL. :) Just kidding. :) I will take your chips though – they rock. Espeically with deep batter fried fish. :) Yumbo.

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 8:06pm

  351. 351: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    No effort whatsoever on his part this week. Feeling so completely done. Maybe I’m much better off being single. A lot less work and no worries or cares. Ugh! Feeling really frustrated!

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 10:50pm

  352. 352: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise – NOOOOO don’t drunk text hahah. I actually now have an app on my phone so that IF I go out drinking, it bans me from texting my ex

    Friday, 12 July 2013 @ 10:53pm

  353. 353: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Zia what app is this?

    for some reason my post earlier got put in moderation so i’ll put it again

    “Hello! Been keeping up with the blog but in the past only have posted during a crisis but i felt like checking in and saying hi instead of lurking haha.

    things are a little better. Even though my guy and I are taking space things feel better because I’m practicing releasing expectations and that’s when he comes forward.

    I’ve also been circular dating.. Not actually DATING but just having fun with friends, and then ok this is an interesting situation. I guess I’m kind of naive with men I dont’ have much experience because I’ve only been with a few boys always around my age.

    A few weeks ago my girls and I went out to a bar and I got along with this man who is 18 years older than me (41) from Ireland. He was buying us drinks and told us he owned the restaurant/bar next door so he invited us to eat dinner for free which was super sweet. And had been texting me to hang out ever since. I finally met up with him for lunch yesterday because I really got along well with him but I wasn’t thinking of it as a romantic thing. I just want to meet new friends in the city and I love challenging myself and meeting new people when I’m nervous. I felt awkward as soon as I got there though because ti was a nice place and I even offered to pay because I wanted to keep the “friend” vibe. Then at the end of lunch when started asking me if we could date I had to explain to him that I’m in a complicated situation with someone but it’s not resolved so I don’t want to have anything romantic with anyone else. I said I’d love to be friends and I’m serious. I lived in Europe last year for a year and I LOOVE European people and making new friends. And he said he understands and that’s ok but then he’s texting me “when can I see you again?” and I feel weird about leading someone on even though I was very upfront…I don’t know if that’s guilt that I’m conditioned to feel or if it’s okay. What do you guys think?

    Also my boy came over last night and I was gonna tell him about my day and that I had lunch with a new friend but I didn’t because I was tired and I had a feeling he would be jealous…IF we were committed and serious again I would say something but I didn’t know if there was a point if I wasn’t cheating, just friends with a new man.

    Is this part of circular dating? I dont know exactly. it was very fun yesterday and i don’t feel like i did anything wrong as i was upfront with this guy and even offered to pay cause i didn’t want the wrong vibe sent out.”

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:02am

  354. 354: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    ha ha Zia that sounds amazing!!!! What I wouldn’t have done to have that app back in the day!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:09am

  355. 355: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Janie

    Yes! the point of Cding is to get out and about and have good times and enjoy yourself, and do things that make you feel good about you and let men be men and treat you good and see how that feels and explore and experiment with all of this.

    I always get caught up in the guilty feelings but really there’s nothing to be guilty about. You are looking out for You. You are doing just what feels good for You and Your life rather than sitting round and watching life pass you by.

    I’m not the best person to advise on CD’ing cos as I said i feel all confused by my feelings of feeling guilty or dishonest but I know that I don’t need to. I’m not responsible for anyone else but me and its up to me to shape my life so that its good for me. Its so much easier to cheer on from the sidelines when I’m not the one who is emotionally involved but from the sidelines I was thinking Go Janie! woop woop! Let this man treat you and lavish you with attention and enjoy how that feels :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:25am

  356. 356: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Sophie! I told one of my good friends today and she seemed disapproving like “well some men would have gotten angry” and I just said well then I wouldn’t want to see them again. So that made me feel a little guilty but I don’t know. Even though I’m only 22 I don’t see the point in not flirting or being friends with other guys unless I’m in a completely committed relationship. We are exclusive and I’d say his my boyfriend so I’m not “dating” anyone else but it was fun to hang out with another male and I told this Irishman I just want to be friends…

    how are you Sophie?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:35am

  357. 357: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose felt great to read you took yourself out.

    Felt suprised to hear about you then initiating, leaning forward knocking on his door offering him food that was left over.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:49am

  358. 358: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    janie baby: if you search “drunk text” or “text blocker” in your apps on your phone you should be able to find one, there’s a few! :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:56am

  359. 359: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    janie baby: if you search “drunk text” or “text blocker” in your apps on your phone you should be able to find one, there’s a few! :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:56am

  360. 360: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    I feel good thank you Janie – it’s hot hot hot here today so I’ve just been out to get supplies for a long day of lying in the garden mmmmm one of my favourite things :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:03am

  361. 361: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Liquid Light 339!

    Yes that is exactly the point! Don’t you love days like that? Revel in it, and then when the chance comes to flirt, you’ll be oh-so-prepared! :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:05am

  362. 362: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie 326

    I love what you did with putting positive self-affirmations above your head, doesn’t it feel so much nicer replacing the negative ones with those?

    And those things you discovered about yourself are not necessarily negative… I’d say if anything, it shows you have a thoughtful and considerate personality. But you could also turn that thoughtfulness and consideration to yourself and use that to not feel bad about asking for a better deal for yourself.

    Smiling at yourself, even if you don’t feel like it, is a great self-confidence boosting tool. Smile at yourself when you do something silly, smile at yourself when someone says something to you you don’t like, smile at yourself when you first wake up in the morning and your hair’s a mess. Get used to that loving, positive energy from yourself. xx

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:12am

  363. 363: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Zia! That will come in handy some nights :) xoxo My worst leaning forward moments are always after one too many drinks.

    Sophie. sounds nice! it’s 2 am here. I’m about to go to bed. Gonna wake up early for yoga class ! mmmm I love yoga

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:12am

  364. 364: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    PS. Sophie, that is one of my favourite things too. It sounds lovely, enjoy!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:13am

  365. 365: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Yay April Rose, I hope you felt better! :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:14am

  366. 366: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I had two guy friends flirt with me, within a short space of time of each other, last night, so maybe day 1 of this positivity challenge is sending a change in my vibe out there?

    The first was a guy I used to date many moons ago who has since become a good friend, who Skyped me and had a long conversation about how I was doing and then at the end said he always wondered whether he and I shouldn’t try dating again.

    The second was a guy friend who messaged me and ended off our brief conversation, when I said I was going to go to sleep, with asking whether he could interest me in a back massage, dinner and a Jacuzzi (that’s hot tub to my American friends :) )? I politely declined, but it felt flattering nonetheless.

    D is working today and has promised to Skype me later.

    Day 2 of positivity challenge commences. I have to say, already there were some tests and challenges yesterday.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:19am

  367. 367: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Indigo :)

    I saved it as my screen saver so now whenever I want I see my smiley face and it says I have confidence in me and I am my favourite person all in sexy pink graphics – yay!

    Yes – turn the thoughtfulness and consideration to myself – I have already told myself I’ve done things wrong this morning :) I did some work negotiations without taking time to think – it was impulsive and works less in my favour – i’m not giving myself a hard time though just noticing and recognising that I am learning new things.

    yes – I love the smiling at yourself that feels like not taking everything so seriously – its not all such a big deal – I am getting better at this too – I made another picture that said shhhhhhh listen all is well :) I am loving my pictures I feel girly I was always creating when I was small and then I lost that creative side for a while it’s nice to have it back

    Hope you have a good sleep janie and some lovely Yoga – great way to start the day!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:21am

  368. 368: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    yay Indigo! that’s great there are men just ready and waiting :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:26am

  369. 369: AngelNo Gravatar says:

    I had a chat talk with the guy whom I had the most awkward date ever with a few weeks ago. I really did now want to chat with him (especially since he asked how I were..) because I was tired and feeling horrible at the time. But then I used my boy energy to suck it up instead of avoiding it and I used my girl energy to tell him how I felt at the time, even though it felt soo vulnerable and stupid to say I was in a bad place. He then asked me out this weekend and I said that I feel really stupid to decline but I really need to rest during the weekend. And he was really sweet about it, consoling me even and then switched subject and talked about something else. If feels so freaking AMAZING to get immediate positive results, so motivating to keep me on track and trying to find a place of connecting instead of being a cactus.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 3:07am

  370. 370: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Angel!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 4:02am

  371. 371: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Janie baby I think it is great you got to go out and experience another man. Let him text, ask you out, whatever. Just be aware of what your boundaries are. Just because he bought you food doesn’t mean you owe him anything or have to agree to anything. He chose to do it because it makes him feel good. He is pushing to be around you because he feels good when in your presence. It might make him feel younger.

    Being around him will help you see how men work and the things they do for women. Just observe yourself and what you are prone to thinking and doing when around men. The best kind of guy to date is the kind you have no investment in. Make sure the dates are in a public place so you avoid compromising situations. You have your whole life ahead of you. No rush needed.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 4:25am

  372. 372: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Where do you ladies find these men who are interested in you?! Seriously, I’ve had nooooo onnnnnnnne. So many dates, and not a one I have an interest in.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 5:02am

  373. 373: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Zia, if you have dates, that is enough :)

    I think it doesn’t happen often for most of us when there is a guy we REALLY like.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 6:12am

  374. 374: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I leaned back last night and felt very confident and calm…. I held my heart in my hands and I was warm when he came towards me…

    It was so wonderful when I went up to dance at the outdoor music concert by myself ( staying in love with me) and he sent my daughter up to bring me back to him and he took me and slow danced with me right there… I felt “OH my god this feels like where I’m to be”… with him… It was so romantic…

    We came home, I put my child to bed.. the laid his head in my lap and we started to banter some in a serious way about what he needs in a woman laughing… and of course they were all opposite of me… but then it turned to sleeping and he was still joking…. and I said something about you know what I need to sleep better with you… and then he said are you going to sleep over with me tomorrow night… I said I don’t know…

    then I don’t remember the words exactly its all surreal and it was weird how we just opened up to each other in a way we hadn’t before… and I told him how he talks about his ex girlfriend and then is in a funk…. and I didn’t feel he was over it, and how it made me feel….

    He was so warm and listening to me in way he hadn’t ever listened to me before… he was different last night…

    but then he said more about things and then I just listened and then he said, I think I just talked myself into a friendship with you… my heart stopped… he said I’m very clear now how I haven’t finished dealing with the muck of having someone you care about almost dying of acute leukemia, we talked about the 6 steps of grief etc… he said I need to talk to someone about these un dealt with feelings… he said NOW I’m clear as to why you been saying what you been saying now for months, how I’ve been hurting you, and why I’m “not ready” for sleepovers… he said I feel like I’ve let you down…and I’m not the man I told you I was in the beginning when I told you I was ready and had cleared all my old stuff and was ready for a long term relationship…

    Now I don’t feel good enough for you, and you deserve someone that has done his work on himself and is ready for you.

    I was sobbing….and he held me….

    I didn’t expect him to want to end things… and yet he looked me in the eyes and said ” I didn’t say this is over” but then he looked down and said “I don’t think we are a good match now.”. we are in different places…

    I don’t know which to believe the one where he looked deeply into my eyes and said “I didn’t say we are over” or the other where he wants to end it…

    I know he said I made it clear what I want the other night… well I did and I regret it now… but really it wasn’t anything different than what I said from the get go! which he agreed on…

    Then he started talking about his ex that had cancer and then he started to cry and get it out… I listened and held him…was there for him… he said this is just the tip of the iceberg

    I don’t know what to do…. my heart is breaking, I’m having chest pains… I’m scared…

    He said he doesn’t know if he has the drive…. that I do to want to really dig in there and get it all out…

    He knows I love him more than he loves me… he thinks that is b/c he hasn’t finished the grieving…. missing his ex’s child that he cared for during the cancer… he thought he was going to be her daddy… but he also knew that the ex-girlfriend didn’t love him or want him. his ex survived the cancer and moved away. he said he has no desire at all to get back with her. She treated him like a thing…used him.

    I don’t know if I should just cut the cord… and move on… or do the no boyfriend thing, continue to date him and put my profile back up and circle date…?

    I can’t sleep, I’m having chest pains… and I’m heart broken….

    I can’t believe a relationship with this much potential might end…

    I realize now that the issues I was having with him were due to his resistance to the deepening of the relationship and not issues with his personality… he was a different man last night… I can see now that isn’t who he is…I can see now that he is a deeply loving man, who really does care about me and my feelings. He was just protecting his heart.. now it is open… and not sure where I fit in to this…

    Part of me doesn’t regret the past 2 days b/c he was able to see clearly his un dealt with pain and was able to cry with me holding him, loving him…..which had to feel good after all he went through…

    I love him…. and when I met him… I looked into his eyes the first contact we had and I had this knowing and I heard “Oh it’s you!” When I met him, it felt like that was it for me….

    Maybe I was wrong… maybe I just don’t know anymore… and I’m hurting b/c my child really adores him… she is going to hurt too….

    I’m so scared… I’m hurting so bad….

    We had plans for the summer he and I …. it felt good.. now those stupid petty little thoughts and frustrations… I had feel so unimportant now…

    @Femininewoman was right…. I was focused on the outcome and not the man… I’m sick to my stomach now…… and yet if this hadn’t happened how would he of found out and started to cry, open up…

    I don’t have a script for this….. and right now I just want to give up… I’ve tried so hard to use the tools and they work when I do… and now I feel like I’ve really screwed myself from not using them more…

    I don’t know how to tell him, I love him and I don’t want it to be over… but that I understand he needs time to heal and he can take his time……that I’ll leave my options open and still date him….

    Part of me wants to just let him go… and if he comes back … to me… I’ll know he really wants me…and yet that doesn’t feel right either…..

    I want to run to him now and tell him I’m sorry for the pressure I put on him the other night and he felt pushed about marriage… and at least take responsibility for my share…. I don’t know if that is the right thing to do….

    I can’t believe here I am… I’m shocked…..

    I think I’m going to have to go to the dr.. the chest pains are worsening…


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 6:22am

  375. 375: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – you and I are in VERY similar places. First off HUGE hugs. I am going to say something to you that someone said to me. This man has given you a GIFT. Yes, a gift. He knows himself well enough to know that he has a lot of baggage right now, and that he needs to get through that to be good to anyone else, or even himself. Exactly my same story. I do believe he loves you. But I also believe he is not capable of giving you a relationship and what you need right now. Exactly my same story. And I KNOW you want to help, fix, resolve all of this FOR him. But you cant. He has to want to do this himself, and then actually do this himself. Exactly my same story. Please believe that this man loves you. He does. That is why this is a gift. If he didnt care about you – he would just limp along, maybe using you for sex, getting what he needs from you and not having this conversation at all. Exactly my same story. You HAVE to let him go. For his sake. For your sake. You have to. This really has nothing to do with your talk with marriage with him. With or without that talk he would be in this place. His issues are his issues. You did nothing wrong. You seriously did nothing wrong. And his reaction is actually fantastic in the sense that now you know what he is capable of and not capable of. And its a gift because HE knows and he TOLD you. That was fair, and honest, and done out of love. Exactly my same story. Please just let him go. That is so hard to do. And I know because I just did it and I”m doing it and its very very fresh. Exactly my same story.

    I will tell you this. If you try to fix him, that is masculine energy. It will not work first of all. Second even if it does, he will resent you for it. PLease dont. Let him do this. And if he does get himself in a better place, then you can see if you are in a place where you can try again with him. Exactly my same story.

    I know he is saying he isnt ending it (that is what mine said too – he said he wanted to push pause) but at the end of the day……it is ending. Maybe there is a sequel to this novel, but this novel is over now.

    I hope that there is another sequel to your novel. Just like I hope there is in mine. But your life is worth living for YOU, not for someone else. Its great to help someone, but in this case, there is nothing you can do.

    In fact if you stay he will never probably work on getting better, and then this will never get better. The risk is that he will never get better even if he leaves. BUT…..the only way that he will get better is if he does this on his own.

    I am SO sorry for you Lisa. I know EXACTLY how you feel. The pain is so great it feels like there is a physical pain near your heart that just wont stop. The sobbing and the pain is almost unbearable. I know. But it has been a week and a half since my sobbing and I do feel better. Really, I do.

    Exactly my same story. So I feel like I can really be there with you. I’m so sorry that you are going through this, but just remember that whatever you had together meant something. That doesnt go away because its ending right now. It mattered. You two together mattered. Maybe you being with him is EXACTLY what he needed to realize he needs to get better to be in a good realtionship.

    Huge hugs to you. I’m so sorry.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:09am

  376. 376: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Syreena 356,

    It was naughty and a bit gruesome of me and disrespectful to offer him my leftover chips, and also a bit kind cos they were well tasty (as Elsie can testify)!

    I knew it was leaning forward, and it felt weird, and I didn’t care about the outcome, and I walked away from his door thinking “Wow, buster, you had a chance to connect with me there, and you threw it away. Yet another one. Your loss mate”.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:27am

  377. 377: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose!!!!! Glad to hear you on here today. :) I’m soooo glad you went out last night. Too bad we couldnt go out together.

    And for the record you can always offer me your uneaten chips. They rock. Please pass the battered fish as well. Yummy.

    April Rose – I dont think I”ve asked you before – how old are you?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:31am

  378. 378: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    Rori says you are not allowed to beat yourself up.
    I know the power of regrets – if only I had done…. or said… or not said…..

    The only thing that could have happened is what happened. The future is unknown.

    To receive love, you need do nothing.

    Sweet siren, I feel for you in your pain.
    Maybe your chest hurts because you held your heart in your hands, and it needs to go back in your chest where you can listen to it beating – alive and vulnerably strong.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:42am

  379. 379: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I just read your tipsy comments from last night and they made me chuckle a lot.
    When you said we could go for a few pints and hang out I felt a yearning for the wonderful sisterly connection (and laughter, and CHIPS) we could share together.

    I’m 43. How old are you?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:45am

  380. 380: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 84 – I hope my heart remember s and reminds me often : )

    Wow the positivity vibe is magical.

    Erika Awakening – 333 and 345 – I’m enjoying the resonance : )

    Lisa – 372 – I felt that tinge of sickliness in my stomach reading about all that closeness ending in goodbye. I feel so sad and disappointed with what happened.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:50am

  381. 381: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Clarity, clarity, clarity. Is what I ask for. In the world of emotions, I’m so often in the soup.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:51am

  382. 382: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:52am

  383. 383: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Something in what Zara posted, gave me this clarity, which I’m trying on for size:

    First come my good feelings, and then I can give back.

    So, he initiates, yes? If I like the way it feels I open up and become responsive.

    If he insists I support him without ensuring my good feelings are there first, then I become resentful, reluctant, obstructive. I judge him as unworthy of my giving, as he has not been giving.

    I finally asked him if he has anything to let out or express since our bad day on Tuesday (PMS aggravated) and at first he says why should he express his anger just because I want him to. He says he has a right to four days of processing (looks passive aggressive to me). Eventually he reacts to my endless futile attempts to get him to understand me (I know, I have to STOP this), and calls me a b*tch, about six times, right up in my face.

    I said that’s abusive. He said my being obstroperous (!!!) is abusive. I said I feel weird and awful and don’t want to be endlessly labelled.

    It’s like he takes his judgements of me into a quiet corner and would fester with them for months (and has done) until I ‘force’ him (after unsuccessful feeling communications) to explode and release some pressure.

    Does this sound like a reversal of male-female polarity to you?

    My frustration often spills out, causing damage.

    Maybe I should have had a look three years ago at EXACTLY what he was doing. And, not liking it, moved on.

    The more I stay in the situation, the more helpless I feel, and the more angry, which leads to more feelings of helplessness.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:07am

  384. 384: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    (((((Lisa))))) So sorry for what you are going through… Your chest pains sound like an anxiety or panic attack.

    Although I am certain the conversation you had was extremely painful, my first thought was that he is a lot healthier than it first appeared….he *really* opened up to you.

    I know it hurts but, to me, it sounds like it might not be over. Sometimes we just have to get it all out and we say things that we might have been struggling with, but after we say them out loud and sort out the subsequent feelings we find we’re actually ready to move forward. I think its too early to say.

    Don’t make any decisions about the relationship while you are in pain or sad.

    Its so so difficult, but the best thing you can do right now is just not decide what to do. Take care of making yourself O.K. and comfortable–even though it might feel impossible.

    Let him further sort things out.

    Unless you are sure you’re completely done, I wouldn’t force it to a conclusion either way right now.

    Keep leaning back and taking care of yourself. The relationship does not need to be over for you to circular date.

    Sending big love and peace to you <3

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:08am

  385. 385: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    OK so all the expert sirens agree that this is not the time for the no girlfriend thing and circle dating, this is the time to just cut the cord and have NO contact…?

    What do you experienced sirens say in this situation?

    @Elsie Thank YOu!!! <3
    @AprilRose <3 Thanks! Your right.. it's all perfect

    I guess I haven't learned yet, that I need do nothing to receive love… I know my children love me no matter what…. they are the loves of my life….

    "M" loves me though… and enough to let me go…

    I can't believe this is happening… I felt so sure we would work it out… he told me I was the one, the perfect for him, and he wouldn't let me go… yada yada

    I can't believe that I was slow dancing with this man just hours before and we were excited to celebrate our 6mos anniversary.. and then WAM!

    I know I'll be ok… I've been through far worse in life… but damn when will it ever change for me… I'm not a victim here but REALLY I've been through so MUCH in my 50 years… I deserve to be LOVED and cherished! I deserve to be worth fighting for, healing for, not giving up on me… I do deserve that…

    Life sucks sometimes… and for me… too much of the time… I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm being honest… I really deserve a break…

    Yes, @Elsie you are right, he does love me.. and a lot! Else he wouldn't have kept talking to me, or wanting to let me go ( he could use me for sex yes) I know that… but damn it makes it harder… This man has just ( aside from the occasional holding back) been amazing to me… I've never been / felt so loved!!

    I do want to get over it soon, b/c I don't like it eating up my time with my child and her seeing me all depressed and crying… it hasn't been easy on her with me dating and going through all these emotions… I hate that part… I want to be able to be present with her no matter what other crap is going on in my life… she is ( they both are ) the loves of my life…


    {{{ hugs }}}

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:08am

  386. 386: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I am reluctant and obstroperous, and I love those parts in me, they keep me from following unworthy leaders.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:10am

  387. 387: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Maybe after realizing that he was hurt so badly by his ex, and by being really vulnerable with you, he may process his feelings more and realize that he may be able to let go of that baggage. And, that his mourning over that relationship is not worth losing you (and a real relationship) over.

    I have no way to know this, and time will tell but, I know its easy to look at everything very polarized.

    Relationships are rarely linear. Even the best ones meander through difficulties, especially when they are so young.

    hugs <3

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:17am

  388. 388: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Please may I follow the lovely things you said to Lisa?

    “Don’t make any decisions about the relationship while you are in pain or sad.

    Its so so difficult, but the best thing you can do right now is just not decide what to do. Take care of making yourself O.K. and comfortable–even though it might feel impossible.

    Let him further sort things out.

    Unless you are sure you’re completely done, I wouldn’t force it to a conclusion either way right now.

    Keep leaning back and taking care of yourself. The relationship does not need to be over for you to circular date.”

    Lisa, I felt a huge glow when I read ” I’ve never been / felt so loved!!” Wow. I’ve yet to experience this. What a gift indeed. Can you keep that feeling going? To and from yourself?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:17am

  389. 389: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Oh yes, that is what I realized last night… OMG he is healthier than I thought… and it was such a huge deepening for me… I wanted him so much in that moment… he opened up to me, apologized and poured his heart out… I love that in a man…at that moment… in time… I was sure… that all my doubts were just gone…

    I think your right, I’ll cry, love me, nurture me, and not make any decisions now… he will be gone for a week and I can just BE… and not have to DO anything not even make a decision…that feels good… that feels really good… I can look at me… like Dominique said, I’m the one that needs to change… and look deeper into me… see what is underneath these tears… put my hands in the earth, garden, soak up nature and hug my child often.. that feels good…

    Yay! that feels good! I take care of me… and not do anything else….

    Oh I’m so grateful! for you! The past 2 days you have really been an amazing amazing help to me… I’d give you a huge hug if I was there… {{{Hugs}}}

    I love this group of women and I can’t express how deeply I feel about this group and Rori’s work… I love you all!

    I love me…

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:20am

  390. 390: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    He may be in shock over how deeply he opened up to you, and he may feel somehow embarassed, I don’t know.
    There will also be a part of him that will forever appreciate the safety of your harbour, and the healing it allowed him to experience.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:20am

  391. 391: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    The hardest thing for me is to treat an imperfect man as if he is worthy of my respect.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:25am

  392. 392: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    There is a part of me full of rage and hate and wanting to tear weak men apart.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:26am

  393. 393: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I think you are right he might feel inadequate right now… and I’m not sure I handle it right… I could have said NO your good enough for me, I love you! What I did say was that I love you sooo much, and I think it is such a turn on for you to open up to me right now, being vulnerable and honest… I love that…

    Thanks for that I will try to keep that going to and from me… your right…

    Love {{hugs}}

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:26am

  394. 394: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    What do I do?
    He won’t lead, and he won’t let me lead?


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:36am

  395. 395: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, Liquid Light,

    I don’t want to let down the appreciation team, so I will look for the positives in my situation.

    *I don’t have the pressure of coming up with feeling messages, because he will only deal with me purely in terms of the practical task we are carrying out this weekend. So, I can drop it all. I need do/say nothing.

    *I will feel the beauty in the present moment – the sun, the breeze, the sounds around me.

    *Even if I have recurring thoughts that say I messed up/I can’t do relationship/ I’m a man-hater, I will ignore them and hug my inner little girl.

    *I can say with honesty that my lack of respect for the masculine is the place where I need to begin healing. And I can feel delighted I’ve made this discovery. And I can begin the healing path now.

    *I feel very grateful for this blog, you women, and Rori.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:44am

  396. 396: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    @myself 393

    He may think we don’t need to go anywhere just now. Hence, no leading.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:46am

  397. 397: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Ask “why are you stuck”, in a positive context.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:48am

  398. 398: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    I have learned to admire these openings up from a man so much. I don’t think it’s easy to do, to put their feelings into words like that, and to know that they are hurting you. And I really believe this act of authenticity shows you that he cares about you. A great deal.

    I love what Wild Geranium says about *not doing* anything while you are in this state. You don’t have to come to any decisions. You don’t have to understand. Really it’s ok.

    *hugs* x

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:52am

  399. 399: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    What are his biggest fears?

    What’s in it for him?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:54am

  400. 400: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose 393

    This is so amazing! Yay you!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:55am

  401. 401: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    How do I begin to create an inner ‘Dad’ who gives to me, protects, and cherishes me?

    Where to start?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:03am

  402. 402: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I feel appreciation for the gorgeous lazy day I got to enjoy, my walk in the sunshine felt extra special today and I felt so grateful for the air filling my lungs. I am so grateful for my sweet family, for their concern for me, for the wonderful dinner my mom made the other night, she is such a great cook, how lucky am I.

    I feel grateful for D’s consideration in Skyping me when he had finished his work, and sending me a video that made me LAUGH so hard. What gifts. My life is filled with wonder and gifts.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:04am

  403. 403: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Why am I stuck?

    Looking inside, I feel a sense of indignance. Being told off for something that wasn’t my fault. Feeling unsafe and powerless at grown-ups’ stupidity. Knowing without doubt that I was smarter than them.

    Why am I stuck?

    Something must feel safe when stuck. There’s a safety in it. Hmmm. A familiarity?

    Why am I stuck?

    It feels so different to ask this positively. Exciting. Like the question itself, asked in this way, can unlock the stuckness.

    Why am I stuck?

    Because I forget to look from the opposite standpoint!
    I’m stuck in one view (negative!)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:08am

  404. 404: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I agree! He does!

    and I’m now in a space of loving my tears and pain… it took me a few hours to do it, but I’m sinking into the pain and loving it… and I’m content with my messy hair and my smudged face and petting my dogs, doing things around the house while I cry…. it’s so warming and fuzzy feeling…

    My best friend ask me this morning what the pain was telling you… I told him, I wasn’t sure but I thought it was ” I’m tired of loving men so deeply and not have it returned ” he said.. turn that around… ” I’m tired of not loving me so deeply and not having it returned” then my chest pains stopped! I realized it was telling me to love myself… and return back to ME….

    Love! {{hugs}}} Indigo… so grateful!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:11am

  405. 405: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    Do you want to feel cherished or to be respected?
    Do you want to drive or to sit in the passenger’s seat?
    There’s a male and/or female match to either choice. I get to choose which role I want in the relationship, and I stay grounded in it.
    A healthy relationship is a balance between a feminine energy individual, may it be a man or a woman, and a masculine energy individual, may it be a man or a woman.

    When a child, I heard the expression “She is the one who wears the pants” , referring to a woman married to a man, both looking happy. I also heard the expression “He is the one who plays the wife”, referring to a man within a homosexual couple.
    I thought “Wow! That is really how simple it is.”
    In the first case the husband is a feminine energy man who happens to be heterosexual.
    In the second case the husband is a masculine energy man who happens to be homosexual.
    The energy may be feminine or masculine, regardless of the reproduction organs who may be male or female. Each to their own energy, regardless of their genitals shape. But there is got to be the “old same old” masculine/feminine energy complementarity for a relationship to blossom. Whatever gender I am and whatever energy, I can’t co-create a relationship without the masculine/feminine energy dance.
    Equity blocks romance. Complementarity nests romance. There is no shape and colours predefined to tell me what Complementarity looks like. Each couple their own. It is not about a static look, it is about energy.

    So the question was not what am I supposed to want as a woman, and what is a man supposed to do to qualify as my partner, what are others saying a woman is supposed to want, what are others saying a man is supposed to do.

    The question is what energy in myself serves my body best, what does my own experience tells me about my own energy, what do I feel and thus what type of energy from a partner complements my own energy best: feminine or masculine?

    Whichever serves me best, as long as:
    __I don’t manipulate myself into believing a partner who demands from me equity or even who gives to get back is going to be energetically complimentary some day.


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:39am

  406. 406: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Zara, wow, I really love this.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 9:46am

  407. 407: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok now I don’t know what to do…

    “M” texted me: “Honey, I was up at 9am for twenty minutes then went back to bed. I woke up a few minutes ago at 1p”

    No ending… I have NO idea what to do with that.. I know we were up until 2am talking and that bothers him to be up that late…

    I suspect he might cancel this evenings dinner plans b/c of being tired and having to pack for his trip tomorrow…

    So, Do I respond to the text or just lean back and don’t… wait on him to call me or not… ???

    I’m inclined to not respond…


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 10:35am

  408. 408: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa it is my belief that the part of you that you claim wants to give up, is actually wanting to surrender. Surrender to love, to commitment to yourself, to healing your pain and to moving deeper.

    It seems last night he showed you that you have the keys to his heart. You have opened it up. So he shared his pain, his doubts and his fears. He seemed to have showed you the hot buttons also that you can choose to stay away from so as not to trigger him negatively.

    Regarding his doubts, it is great that he shared them. What I learned in CCarter’s From Casual to Committed is that the man has doubts and as he goes deeper in commitment and surrender these doubts will bubble up. It is great if he shares them and deal with them now rather than wait until later.

    I believe this guy needs to know that you won’t hurt him like his. He needs to know that he has a safe place to go where he can share his weaknesses and his vulnerability. Where he can take off his armor and know he will not be hurt. Even after doing that it is still his job to move the relationship forward. If he doesn’t at least you know you have it in you to get to the relationship you want, even if it means it is with another man.

    I don’t get the impression that this is over for him. If you do feel he has walked away emotionally, in case he comes forward again I would let him know that I am there for him if he ever needs someone to talk to. I would let him know that he needs not fear that he will be judged as weak by me. He might have thought he talked himself into a friendship because he assumed you now saw him as weak. That was a great moment to let him know that only a great and strong man would dare to open up himself so wide to share unconditionally with the woman he feels addicted (or whatever strong word you want to use to plant a seed in his head) to.

    I believe only when a man reaches to another level of surrender in relationship that he can open up and share deeply. It is a choice point for him and if he doesn’t walk away here he is showing he has the capacity and willingness to go deeper.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 10:54am

  409. 409: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa that text is just to show he is thinking of you and incorporating you in his life.

    He did start it with HONEY.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 10:56am

  410. 410: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    He was the one talking and choosing to stay up late.

    Let him decide if the experience was more healing to him than going to sleep. To me the text suggests “I was up late, yet I did get my sleep. Yayy!!”.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 10:59am

  411. 411: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I was expecting him to withdraw a little, especially after than intense and deeply intimate talk about himnself. To recover from the intimacy and get his testosterone level back up high.

    But no. Here he is still staying connected as soon as he is awake.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:02am

  412. 412: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    What’s in it for him?

    He gets to feel good. Unburdened having spoken about some of the stuff with the ex that might have been wearing him down. Walking around holding all of that in. He must feel must rested and energized now that that energy has moved around a bit.

    Don’t regret expressing what you want. He knows now what he has to do. Keep your standards high, you will be more attractive to him. If he was put off by that he would, like many immature men do, just plain disappear. Instead he is here with you talking. He is going through his emotional process. Don’t make it into something negative about you.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:09am

  413. 413: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Wow have wonderful Thanks!


    and now he has texted me and maybe that is a toe in the water to see if I’m still open to see him or talk to him?

    What should I text back?

    I’m up too honey? I’m happy to hear from you?


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:20am

  414. 414: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Yess, I do want to surrender rather than give up! I’m crying… I do I do want to open myself up to deeper love and commitment to myself… and to him if he shows up…. YES! that’s it! I want to surrender and it has been 20 years… it’s time… to trust to surrender!

    Thank so much! I’m so grateful! LOVE!! {{hugs}}

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:23am

  415. 415: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Don’t know that I’d text back yet Lisa. He is not asking you anything. He is just showing that the attraction is still strong and he is still connected in some way. Not responding will ramp up the attraction because then the space is still there for him to step into.

    I wouldn’t text back. I would see this as him giving energy to me.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:24am

  416. 416: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Feminiewoman Yes!~that makes me happy!!! should I text him back? What should I say!?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:25am

  417. 417: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Ok I haven’t but the phone rang and it only rang twice.. before I could get to it… and not enough time for the caller id to show up… I suspect it was him… he tends to be a little timid at times if I don’t respond he gets his feelings hurt… feels rejected…

    We have plans tonight and though I don’t want to pick up the Oars… I don’t want him to think I’m rejecting him/ don’t want to see him… he has tended to consistently say that… it makes him feel bad when I don’t respond… most especially since he was vulnerable last night and that might make him more sensitive now to rejection…

    Though it’s 2:30 now and date is around 5:30 should I text him back in another hour or so… ?

    With maybe a smile or something…?

    What do you think?


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:38am

  418. 418: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa what I think is that right now you are overwhelmed with fear and anxiety and wanting to cling on to him for dear life. He did not leave a message and he did not ask you a question.

    How about believing that he know you love him and is not rejecting him. How about believing that he is overwhelmed with intoxicating desire for you?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:43am

  419. 419: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I can believe that…

    yes, I can….

    maybe i’m overwhelmed with anxiety… I’m sure tired from all the crying and journaling today… purging old stuff…

    but mostly just b/c I know him and how he has responded in the past to me following the rules of him not asking me for anything and me not responding unless he does… and he was hurt when I didn’t respond to his e-mails and text and he finally expressed it to me after months of me not responding unless he ask a question…

    I wasn’t wanting to lean in per se just remembering how he told me he felt…

    and yes, I’m going to believe that he has intoxicating desire for me…that feels warm and fuzzy….and vulnerable


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 11:51am

  420. 420: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – I agree with most of what FW says and also April Rose says to you. But if you feel you want to text him back knowing that he feels rejected easily, then I would do that – you know him and you best. I would keep it light and not mention dinner. You have a good guy here whether or not you guys end up together in the end…Exactly my same story. LOL

    @April Rose – we are basically the same age – I’m a bit younger. Listen. Sweetie – I actually care about you so please dont be mad. Anyone who got up in my face like that after giving him space for 4 days for something that wasnt even my fault and calling me those names. Honey, this is not a good man, he is toxic. I dont know what is oging on with him but you have got to get out of this environment. Does he live there? He has got some major issues, which you ant do anything about. This is just my opinion, but wow, sweetie, you totally DO NOT deserve this. And if his only communication is to yell names at you after 4 days…..wow. Uncool. Totally UNCOOL.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:01pm

  421. 421: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa if I felt he was committed and had a desire for me then I would believe my contact would be welcome. I wouldn’t be worried about his hurt. Men’s anger is a preprogrammed default reaction.

    If I were you I would reread and revisit the experience and see if I really do believe that he was ending it. If you believe he was ending things then it would seem to me that you took his text as a critical and blame attack. As in “it is your fault that I did not get enough sleep”.

    If I truly believe that he desires me I would have no problem picking up the phone calling him and teasing him about it. BUT that is me.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:05pm

  422. 422: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa it depends on where you are coming from.

    He doesn’t need a mummy to coddle or pamper his feelings. If he does, are you comfortable acting like his mummy.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:09pm

  423. 423: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    No not at all he wasn’t ending it for sure.. he wasn’t sure what he wanted he said, he was tired and couldn’t think straight… I was too… it was a very emotional night for us both… lots of crying…

    I do believe he desires me… yes! He bought me a frame with a picture of us kissing…

    He says he loves me…

    I can call him and tease him yes, not sure how to do that… I’m good at teasing men… I can be light and easy…

    what do I tease him about… Honey, happy 6mos anniversary! YaY we made it…that is what he was teasing me with last night… laughing… at us ….

    Hugs! <3

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:11pm

  424. 424: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    That’s true! I do need to be clear on where I’m coming from…

    No I don’t want to be his mommy…


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:13pm

  425. 425: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    FW – I admire what you’re doing here with Lisa. Your mention of immature men disappearing really helps me now. Thank you.

    Zara – thank you for the thoughts on complementarity – I’m inwardly not a girly girl but am quite sensual and have the body of a girly girl – so it can be quite confusing. And which clothing style to wear can be a nightmare sometimes.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:14pm

  426. 426: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I would imagine him having no resistance and would tease him about being overwhelmed with intoxicating desire for me because I drive him wild and even in his sleep he has an overwhelming and powerful craving that drives him to text me the moment he wakes up and become conscious because his emotions are roaring in his ears.

    I believe he is emotionally naked and could be tantalized by your words now. If you do believe he wants you, I would call.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:18pm

  427. 427: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you soo much. I feel your care swooshing into my heart from across the atlantic :-)

    What happened just now is that we spent two hours talking and he opened up and at the end said he felt ashamed for being weak, and ashamed for not being able to man up.

    We almost didn’t talk. When I walked into the living room he asked me to go out and leave him alone. He looked awful. So I hung around, sat down in a chair, stayed quiet. Then he started talking.

    He believes that what happened on Tuesday was my fault. It was pretty awful, and I did overstep the line and cause some damage. It’s another chipping away at his confidence, which he believes I am doing, and maybe subconsciously I am.
    He is prone to depression and has a lot of responsibilities, which I’m supposed to be helping him with. Its a weird situation. We look after an old place and we don’t get paid for it.

    I’m not sure where he is now, but I don’t think he is in a fit state to go out tonight. We are invited to a party.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:22pm

  428. 428: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    So I hung around, sat down in a chair, stayed quiet. Then he started talking.


    A woman following her intuition is to a man like candy to a child.

    A man’s anger is not always directed at a woman. He can be angry at himself.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  429. 429: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Veronica, some disappear, upgrade themselves and then reappear.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  430. 430: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Waiting is hard and i know im not suppose to be waiting … Ive taken it upon myself to learn something new! But since he called yesterday and i missed it i figured he would call back today.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:33pm

  431. 431: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    YES Feminine Woman 426.

    I believe that is why we women have been given intuition, in order to know these things. I believe a man can draw tremendous safety and confidence from a woman’s intuitive knowing.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:33pm

  432. 432: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Arabian I understood you chose to not take the call because you were still angry. Was that the case?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:36pm

  433. 433: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Yes femininewoman… It didnt feel right at the moment and i had plans to get lost in a painting session that night … I wasnt in the mood to talk 😐

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:47pm

  434. 434: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Arabian did he leave a message?

    Why are you waiting?

    Have you taken responsibility for creating the experience that you are now in?

    Or are you in regret? Why are you figuring he would call back?

    I know. A lot of questions.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 12:59pm

  435. 435: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Doesn’t look like we are going out tonight. He is back in his room and I don’t want to approach him again.

    Looks like I’m spending Saturday night listening to Rori’s Toxic Men program.


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:09pm

  436. 436: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Do I want this much responsibility? That my behaviour on a Tuesday can send him into a tailspin by Saturday?

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:11pm

  437. 437: ArabianLoveNo Gravatar says:

    Hihihihi thats ok 😉 !

    No he didnt leave a message … But i called him back when i was done doing my stuff which was late at night many many hours after he called me. obviously he didnt answer. Lol

    Im waiting because i want to spend time with him this weekend.

    I guess i am responsible for the situation i am in now since had i responded when he called or called back shortly after i may have been out with him at this very moment. I dont regret anything .. I figure if a man really wants me he will call back … Usually he calls several times but anyways … I guess he made other plans bc i always miss his calls …

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:14pm

  438. 438: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Okay, so he wasn’t in his room, I peeked. He is in another room, already half drunk. This calls for drastic measures. I am going to go to the party on my own, and I am going to stay over.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:17pm

  439. 439: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose,

    That was going to be my next suggestion.

    Can you not get away for a while? If a man is in a funk and nothing I try seems to be dissolving the situation, I know that’s what I would do.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:21pm

  440. 440: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I favour weekends/holidays away.

    They trigger me, but in a good way. My personal belief is that a woman taking herself away for her own pleasure shifts something in a relationship, and can create more attraction.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:23pm

  441. 441: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, I feel awful. I don’t know the way to the party.
    I just want to be away from him.

    I don’t want to be his rock.
    He is sitting drinking beer (fast)

    Not caring what sort of Saturday night I’m having.

    I feel sick.

    I think he is unwell. I feel scared.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:24pm

  442. 442: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I want to go to my hometown where my friends are, but that’s a four hour drive :-(

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  443. 443: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so sad and scared and can’t stop sobbing.
    I don’t know what to do

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:27pm

  444. 444: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I just listened and talked with him for two hours.

    Then he disappeared to get drunk

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:28pm

  445. 445: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I’m scared to leave the building in case he does something to himself

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:29pm

  446. 446: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    And I so want to get away from him

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:32pm

  447. 447: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I wish I knew the way to the party. I’d throw him in the passenger seat and drive off like the wind.

    That would feel like a scene from some crazy film about codependent people

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:34pm

  448. 448: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I have a sense he is opting out of the relationship and won’t say it. Will behave badly so that I’m the one who leaves.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:39pm

  449. 449: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Two hours ago he was saying we’ve had a bad week.

    And now he is getting drunk, alone.

    Is that normal, girls?

    Should I not panic?
    Neither of us hardly ever drinks alcohol, (except him when he’s with his mates).

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:43pm

  450. 450: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I just finished playing this attention getting game.

    What I realized about myself is that I feel more drawn in to the big smile. Sometimes I could hardly see the soft smiling inviting smile. I also noticed my heart racing as I tried to zone in on the smiling face.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:47pm

  451. 451: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    I feel frustrated with the idea that I have to be, behave differently than I am to be with someone…

    I practically put my foot in my mouth with captainCD, just because I keep following self imposed rules of leaning back, forward, Fm’s instead of saying what I need to say in the moment!

    I feel many things right now, I feel exhausted! I want to be a better me, not something I read from a book, or a dating advice place. I want to say things in the moment and so what? I will be careful with people’s feelings, but at the end it is not my responsability to how they feel.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:47pm

  452. 452: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve got such a mixture of feelings

    I feel indignant and I’m thinking “I’ll show you” and I want to drive off without saying anything and stay away for a week.

    I feel sad and hollow in my tummy. Like a cold desparing wind of loss is scratching the inside of my chest with boney fingers.

    I feel weirdly vindicated, like “I thought he was not a match for me. I knew it wasn’t right” but that leaves me with “What the hell do I do now?”

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:47pm

  453. 453: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I second that.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 1:56pm

  454. 454: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    Going on a date with a new person, I told captain CD that I was feeling anxious and pushy and that I was open to meet and talk, but That I needed to step back and do things that feel good. I chased him, pretended I was cool with having sex, and I did not talk about how I was feeling when he was there in my face, I did not confront him and myself and ask why are you here, what do you want? Do you still feel the same about spending time with me? But I didn’t I Acted cool, I did not state my needs, because “I was not supposed to” I missed an opportunity!

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:05pm

  455. 455: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    ***** 423: Veronica says:

    Zara – thank you for the thoughts on complementarity – I’m inwardly not a girly girl but am quite sensual and have the body of a girly girl – so it can be quite confusing. And which clothing style to wear can be a nightmare sometimes. *****

    Hmmmm this to me would be the same as saying I have got a masculine soul in a feminine body. Feels healthy to me. I would let the masculine soul guide me to what looks sexy on my feminine body and I would wear just that. 😉


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:14pm

  456. 456: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    ***** 404: Indigo says:

    Zara, wow, I really love this. *****



    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:15pm

  457. 457: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    Following from 403

    __ If I want to feel cherished: I am a passenger, I am a feminine energy. I want to trust and respect my driver.

    __ I don’t want to manipulate myself into believing I can make a feminine energy partner become complementary to me, although I am a passenger myself.
    The car is not going to even start off, nobody being in the driver seat. I can fool myself and say “well I am going to get in the driver seat just to start the car off, he will take from there.” I might spend years driving him around, waiting for him to take the steering wheel off my hands. Years exhausting myself and making myself sick. And making him feel inadequate. When I finally listen to my body and I stop driving, the car stops definitively. Still no driver on board. Two wounded passengers. The car has become a war casualty.
    The best is to get out of the car and find one with a driver.


    __ If I want to be respected: I am a driver, I am a masculine energy. I want to cherish my passenger’s feelings.

    __ I don’t want to manipulate myself into believing I can make a masculine energy partner become complementary to me, although I am a driver myself.
    The car will start off but the other driver will get frustrated and get off the car. I will keep driving while shouting through the car window “come on, pop back in my car, I beg you to see how good a driver I am” And the masculine energy back in his own car driver seat with his passenger’s seat available, says “yeah, yeah, you are good, but I am not getting back in your passenger’s seat. I am a driver, you know? I feel eager to cherish a passenger’s feelings, I will keep driving until I meet a passenger. I hope you’ll find yours”.
    If I am wise enough to stop pursuing this driver, I become aware of the passengers on the side road who are looking for a driver.
    Or I become aware that may be I’d feel so much more at peace as a passenger myself. May be I am not a driver after all…

    I have to find what serves my body best: be the driver or the passenger. And be honest about it.


    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:23pm

  458. 458: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    I am dolled up for a party and feeling fine.

    Just need to decide whether to slip out unseen, or let him glimpse my gorgeousness. Don’t want to risk falling into discussions with him. i’d prefer to slip out.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:25pm

  459. 459: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Oh shit. The bottle of wine I wanted to take is in the kitchen, where he is now.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:26pm

  460. 460: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Anyway, I’m off now until tomorrow.

    Thank you lovely women for being here.

    You need do nothing, and I love you.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 2:27pm

  461. 461: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose, Hope you have some fun and manage to put him out of your head for a while.

    Words that feel like an alarm bell to me are shame and depression and him turning to drink to numb it out rather than feel the pain and heal his depression and shame.

    You did the right thing tor thing to get out of there for a while.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 5:56pm

  462. 462: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Oooh, it’s a guilt day … guilt feels so yucky in the body. I’m going back to re-tap my Guilt 30-day challenge to release myself from this. Guilt has this clenched chest sinking feeling to it … ugh

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 6:42pm

  463. 463: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    janie, you did fine with this Circular Date …and – just curious – what does “taking space” mean – and why do you still have an “exclusivity agreement” with the guy? Love, Rori

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 6:58pm

  464. 464: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose, can you visit your friend next weekend? Drive the 4 hours just for you? Go to the party tonight, & enjoy yourself as much as possible? Touch fabric on couches & chairs, enjoy tasty food & beverages, listen and sway to the rhythm that surrounds us all? Perhaps do something fun, new & funky for yourself this coming week. Make it ALL about you. :)

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:02pm

  465. 465: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    I’m not feeling well this weekend. I decided to use that feeling & take care of myself. SLOW down a bit. I painted my finger nails in two different gold polishes. 3 of my nails are painted in a clear, with gold glitter. 2 are a really pretty frosty, solid gold. It looks so nice with my golden hair. :) I also started major cleaning on my living space. I’m ready for some new colors. I already have turquoise & green (very underwater feeling). I’m thinking of adding burnt orange to bring some fire into the space…possibly lavender. I love color. 😉

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:11pm

  466. 466: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    My bf and I have been together for almost 3 years since we were 19 and it got to a point where for the past 8 months he withdrew, didn’t want to hang out as much, but I still hung on. His parents came for a weekend and they mentioned marriage alot. And since then he freaked out and said he doesn’t want to get married until he’s atleast 30 which I understand and I DONT want to get married now, but it made me sad how he made a point to say what HE was going to do in the future and stopped mentioning us, so I suggested we take space for a week and since then it’s been more mellow. This week he slept over 3 times, but I just don’t feel that super commitment from him anymore. We are technically “together” and sexually exclusive; it’s just not exactly how I want it to be as it was before and I’ve voiced this. So since he is still stalling I think it’s time to form friendships with other men, but I don’t want to date anyone else. I feel confused by all this. I don’t want marriage RIGHT NOW but if i’m IN a relationship I want to feel completely secure and like my man wants to please me. I feel my bf stepping up now that I’m leaning back and talking to others but we’ll see. Should I mention to my bf — “oh i had lunch with this nice Irish guy. just a friend?” or is that pointless? Part of me feels guilty.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:20pm

  467. 467: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    Date lasted 2 hours, no dinner just talking at the bookstore he suggested dinner, but I wanted to leave, not because I was uncomfortable, but I felt 2 hrs was enough and I have to stop giving so much time to men.

    He kept looking at my chest, I don’t know why I am small chested and was not wearing cleavage at all. Then I got this aha moment about my sex appeal and I realized it is very strong! I get men h8rny lol I wish I can transform that into making men get closer.

    He walked me to my car and when it was time to say goodbye he kissed me on the lips, ugh I wasn’t expecting that! I felt exposed and awkward!

    Got I text now saying he had a god time, I responded “Thanks, likewise :)” I am still thinking about captain though…

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 7:56pm

  468. 468: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:


    I really did not realize how “feeble” (to use your word) focusing on men and dating was making me feel … until I stopped focusing on them altogether. The “intrusive” thoughts are coming in less and less, and I am feeling much more centered.

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:11pm

  469. 469: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Femininewoman Thanks for your insight… I took time to sit with myself before calling him to let go of any “he might be hurt” thoughts and energy.. b/c I realized you were right! I need to worry about my own feelings first… he is a big boy… so I dropped it and was very clear on what I wanted to accomplish when I called… so my intent when I called was to be clear on what his text meant and to tell him it was so sweet of him to think of my first thing when he woke up…

    Later I discovered that he sent it to let me know why he hadn’t called but then I also noticed a tinge of I’m angry b/c I was up so late.. and yes, he does tend to not take responsibility for his decisions… however, I don’t take it on… I mostly remind him it was his decision and he was welcome to leave any time…

    So, he was upset when I called once we started talking, he invited me over to his house to visit….. but then something happened…I’m not sure at this point, since he said he had lots of things to do before he leave for a week…

    I could tell there was unfinished issues he had unresolved from last night… and could be since there was such a change in his attitude from last night to this afternoon… he was as you say building his testosterone back up…and felt the need to be distant… which he was… I mentioned him being distant and on guard.. he agreed he wasn’t in touch with his heart and was being defensive…

    any ways….. he went from being humble and being very sorry for letting me down and hurting me to angry at me…

    he wanted to talk and we talked 2.5 hrs… I was so tired of talking I could have screamed… but I had no leg to stand on… he was rightfully angry at me for putting my goal of marriage before his feelings… and I was triggering him… he felt like a “thing”… I realized it a few days ago when chatting with you and the group. But stuff was in the way of me apologizing…

    I apologized… whether or not we decided to continue or not… I said I’m apologizing for it… not b/c of any other reason than that I have hurt you…

    It was an intense very blunt and honest conversation on both our parts about things that had not been dealt with. He as upset that, his needs had (he felt ) not been heard… ( of course mine had not either, which I mentioned when it was my turn) I acknowledged it and he said he felt bullied by me b/c I had not really taken the time to really care how much he as exhausted and how much of his life that was being put on hold b/c of our relationship…and that my attitude was ” just suck it up, your a man”.. oops I did that.. I took full responsibility for that…

    I told him I had felt the same way…. so too much to type out…but the short of it.. I told him I didn’t feel heard and that my needs weren’t being considered… and that I had to have that, if we continued…

    He said, I’m going to counseling for my past relationship issues… and I also need some type of schedule that I can live with so I can function with my work and keep my life so that I’m not constantly on empty… I told him I understood…

    I said, I need to have my life more in a routine also.. but that I felt that he had not been trying the ideas we had both come up with… he agreed it was b/c of his emotional stuff etc…

    So, I leaned back in the convo, stayed strong, yet soft and humble… and I didn’t back down…

    Though I kept noticing he kept finding reasons to break up… and I called him on it and said, if you feel that you are done, please just say so now. Lets not do this, if your sure you don’t want to continue. I’m ok with that…just be honest. He then stopped saying it and wanted! actually wanted to keep talking it through…

    He eventually said, it doesn’t feel like either one of us want to end this…and last night it would have been easier for me to do it, but now, I’m feeling different. But we can’t continue the way things are… I need to have some sanity in my life… He ask me for some ideas of solutions… I gave them… he listened and wrote them down..then I started to feel weird.. I needed to sit with it.. for myself…

    I said, I have to go, I’m feeling weird now, and disconnected to you, I don’t know what to do about it… I need to go say hi to my child.. I don’t want to talk anymore… Then he said, can you come over here and we can reconnect.. WOW.. the defenses went down…

    I showed up but I wasn’t feeling so good about things…. I still felt he as NOT listening to my needs and being defensive about his share of the blame… ( but then I realized it must be the masculine thing) so, I went and on the drive over I got ready being soft on the outside, strong on the inside and leaning back… walked in his house and stood strong and leaned back… he came up to me kissed me and held me and said IT FEELS SO GOOD TO HOLD YOU… I continued to lean back.. and waited to see what would happen… he made me tea… and wanted to hold me … more.. I had to really work on melting into him some and breathing in… I was still frazzled from the conversation… him wanting to blame me and kept hashing it..

    then he said Now what do we need to talk about, I said, I’m done talking, I have no more to say now… I’m tired and need to not talk about it… ( I realized he was leaving for a week but I honored my feelings ) he said are you in listening mode, I said yes, I can listen, but I’m not going back into the heavy mode… he got out a monthly calendar he bought and said let’s plan our week out so that we can get things on track… I waited leaned back, breathed in and listened… I was ready to leave or stay…

    he was so sweet he started on the planning, and he wrote down all of the sudden, 2 nights with me a week and one night at my house!! I perked up and said honey! really! you’d do that for me! Then I got all giddy and happy and gave him big kisses, made a big deal out of it.. he said, that makes you happy? I said yes! it does… then to boot he wrote in hiking on sunday’s OMG! he was hearing me… he just needed me to drop my damn agenda about a time line of the relationship and marriage…

    I felt good after that.. he grabbed my face firm but gentle and gave me very passionate kisses and said, we need to reconnect. I want to make love to you….

    WOW! he was very masculine… and I love it…

    I didn’t need to be right, I just needed to be strong on the inside… and not needy or desperate…

    Sorry for the long post… I had lots more to type.. but you were right on @wildgeranium… it isn’t over…. my man stepped up to the plate… and made me happy! He said happy anniversary honey! He covered me up and let me sleep ( nap) but then I decided to come home… and be with myself… I still have sadness to address within myself and look at what he was saying about me… and looking at how it is true…

    Love to all of you!

    Thanks soooo much for your support and compassion and love!

    I’m going to get some sleep tonight… <3

    Saturday, 13 July 2013 @ 8:53pm

  470. 470: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    I’m really happy for you sweet siren :) I was completely mouth-open amazed at how it ended between you two.

    Just a question for you and Elsie, because she has also mentioned it, do you not get exhausted having relationship talks that last for hours? I noticed you saying you needed to stop talking and I was thinking how exhausting it must have been.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:37am

  471. 471: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling really good today, like a sweeping wave of contentment has washed over me. I’m feeling happy with the last 24 hours. I was posting all my photos from my holiday, and reminiscing and feeling so happy with the memories, and thinking, I really feel in the right place for a relationship right now.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:42am

  472. 472: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose

    I am really glad you went to the party. I hope you do lovely things for yourself this week to boost how you feel, and allow him to take care of his depressed feelings.

    I second what Moving Magic says, could you not take a drive up to those friends of yours next weekend? Perhaps you are missing the other people in your life?

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:45am

  473. 473: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Moving Magic, I loved your description of colour :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:47am

  474. 474: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I have so much anger – I don’t quite know what to do with it. I feel used – as soon as he got to a place that had ‘cool’ people I could see and feel that he was dropping me. But that was always there in subtle ways – I didn’t fully understand then. I feel so powerless. I don’t know how to turn this around. How do I not feel ‘not enough’? It’s sucks up so much of my energy. Sometimes I have confidence and then other times I feel so awful – I’m feeling despondent because I return to this so often. I’m trying to understand what I should be learning here. Why can’t I discard him as easily as he discarded me? As time passes I see how he’s not good for me, how most of it was easy talk and not much action. But why am I stuck like this – I don’t understand? I don’t regret unfriending him at all. I don’t want anything to do with him. I’ve got salsa club, meeting friends, going to the theatre and exploring town all planned. When I find myself thinking about him, I bring my thoughts back to me and then they just spring right back to him. I tell myself ‘release,release,release him’. I even imagine if it’s him hanging onto me and then say please release me. But I can’t stop looking at his fb page even though I’ve unfriended him – I don’t know what’s driving that. I can not look for a couple of days and then I’ll look. I try to guage my feelings – and I don’t want him back in my life. What is this then? Maybe I’m not returning to myself deeply enough? I wish I could drop all this and peel him off my skin and just carry on. I’m under no illusion that he’ll return. And now that I’ve written all this I kind of feel okay.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:35am

  475. 475: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – I am SO happy for you. And if I’m being honest, just a bit jealous. I wanted that to be the way that my story ended after our long talks. It wasnt at all. I am seriously sooooo happy for you – but thinking about your situation just stings because our situations are so similar and yours ended up so differently than mine. It makes me feel like I”m not good enough, and I’m not worthy, which is why GS didnt do that for me.

    On another note, CollegeCD texted me last night and then made a reference to this movie. I said, oh, I have never seen that movie, but always wanted to. He immediately said – We should watch it on Netflix. So I said that sounds like fun, good idea. Then he immediately texted back “When :) ??” So I said throw out some dates and times and we’ll see. :)

    I didnt want to lead, and they he wrote, “When I know I’ll let you know.” He takes care of his two kids. Our schedules are both like that.

    Anyway – I got to thinking about it – I like him, and definitely want to see him outside of lunch dates. I think it would be fun to watch a movie with him, but I really would maybe rather go out first? I dont know – maybe not? Am I being silly? This is a guy I knew a long time ago, so its not like I dont know him. But I dont think I want to go to HIS house….and the only fantastic TV in my house is in my bedroom LOL. My TV downstairs is still icky.

    Anyway – just really wanting to go OUT first, but not sure how to bring that up because this movie came up so organically in the conversation. Anyway – thoughts? Its not a deal breaker and I would see a movie with him, but I”m not sure I want to go to HIS house (not that he has invited yet, etc.)

    Anyway – thoughts?

    And….man, even writing all of that, all I can think of is Lisa and her guy and how GS didnt do that for me. I miss him. I am still so addicted to his smell, his touch, his smile, the way I feel around him (before the last couple of weeks obviously), I just MISS him…..my heart, my soul, my bones just miss him. And what hurts even more is the idea that he doesnt miss me like this at all……ouch.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:39am

  476. 476: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Veronica – Its how I feel. Its an addiction. You got addicted to his chemical makeup. I believe this to my toes. Your hormones and your heart get addicted to his smell, his smile, his touch, his voice, and then because you are so attached to it – when it is gone (even if you know its not right for you) your body is still addicted. Just like addicts who know that drugs are bad for them, their bodies are still addicted.

    So your brain has to be stronger than your heart and your animal functions here :) Just like I have to do right now. I have to keep telling myself that this is a million year old “trick” that keeps women bonded to men, and then thank the stupid cavemen ancestors of ours….. LOL.

    I hope that made you smile – its the best way I can deal with things is to poke humor at it. (Thats “humour” for you April Rose…..)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:42am

  477. 477: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Yayyy Lisa!!!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:09am

  478. 478: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Bloggies – CudG has showed up on my FB liking stuff again. I feel surprised…why is he behaving like this? I’m starting to miss him again…is this a lean forward?
    Anyway…against my better judgement I checked his FB and realized he in his Home country. My god…did he move there or is he just visiting? I feel like really Sad thinking he left for good and I feel Confused.

    And the guy who contacted me a week ago wrote me today and was very complimentary & loving in the text…I might give him a try.

    Also, I went to a party this weekend and was talking to a guy and practicing listening….and I felt so bored ….So So bored….just listening….and he kept talking.

    I feel hopeless…and trying to change my mood.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:29am

  479. 479: CurvySiren10No Gravatar says:

    Elsie, just wanted to point out to you that Lisa and her guy are both very available (ie. not living with others, getting out of marriages etc) and that creates a totally different dynamic in a relationship. I speak from experience here. I’ve told you before that I was in your situation and it turned out great in the end, but it was a long rocky road for me, especially during the time I was still in that transition phase. I know you are emotionally divorced already, if not legally…but I think GS’s situation is different and he just can’t do both. He’s not willing to right now. Period. I know how much this has hurt you, but it’s really NOT about you being unworthy. Logistically and emotionally he is just NOT in the place you want him to be in. It’s apparent from everything you’ve told us here.
    Sending lots of hugs to you!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:51am

  480. 480: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Sirens!

    Looking for some advice here…Sorry it’s so long. It’s hard to explain for me and this may not even be enough.

    My bf of 1 year does something that bothers me. I feel like I am *searching* for eye contact from him often enough that it feels weird. It makes me feel: icky like I’m chasing him, and ignored and afraid of rejection. If he doesn’t reciprocate after a second or two, then I pull away vibe-wise and I know he *feels* it and that that feels bad to him.

    I have tentatively tried to bring this up using FMs and it hasn’t been successful as with other more clear-cut issues. It feels slippery and hard to pin down and maybe too ingrained with who he *is* to try and *change*. My intuition also tells me this is a trigger issue for him too but he is unaware he is doing it and since he is a big “fixer” it makes him feel frustrated and like I’m attacking his way of being.

    In the beginning I confess it was a 2-way street: I was afraid to make eye contact with him and told him so in a FM vulnerable way, hoping he’d make the connection that he was doing this also. But now I feel so good with him I’m not afraid of eye contact with him and don’t avoid it at all anymore.

    For context:
    1. This is a man who loves doing things for me like cooking and planning things I like, very affectionate, tells me how I am the most beautiful girl, shows me off to friends and family. We see each other 4-5x a week. I am 30 he is 32. He keeps moving the ball forward towards us having a family. I CD in the world without going on “dates”.

    2. I notice this eye contact thing is something he also does in the world generally. It seems to arise when he is tense or thinking hard about something or like he is trying to preserve his “self”. But then it happens in relaxed times, when we are just hanging out. He’ll hug or cuddle me instead, but it feels like he won’t look at me!

    3.My father and brother were emotionally abusive and very weird about eye contact and avoided it constantly. I am concerned I am comfortable in this situation because of that the-devil-you-know thing and I want to break the paradigm.

    Finally – I miss my ex-bf of 7 years, where he was always initiating soulful, lingering eye contact with me – To the point where it made me uncomfortable sometimes! And I’ve been with other men where this was never a trigger *issue* that arose…so I know I’m not imagining things….


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:03am

  481. 481: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @CurvySiren – thank you for reminding me of that. Its true that lIsa and I’s siutatons are different in that respect for sure. He is just not at a place now where he can do that.

    BUT…..he was in the same situation for the last 8 months, and all of a sudden he doesnt crave bieng with me after work anymore? Why? Everything else is the same – nothing has changed. Nothing. Only him saying that he doesnt basically want to be with me after work hours. I mean,I can sugar coat it as much as I want, but at the end of the day NOTHING has change.d NOTHING. only him not wanting to be with me.

    My walls are starting to come up strong with him again. I’m beginning to start to get angry with him. I know I shouldnt – I know its a defense mechanism. But I feel like I did everything, and he has everything he has ever wanted in me (his words) and now he is just wiling to throw that all away.

    I’m upset, and since I’m all out of tears, the anger is starting to well inside me. I know it shouldnt but it is.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:13am

  482. 482: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie- Sweets you are such a ray of sunshine. Keep moving in your own space being Elsie. It gets easier and easier and then it doesn’t hurt one day and then soon it becomes a thankfulness for what you learned. You are learning so much so fast it’s astounding to see your transformation. Just beautiful Elsie. Feel your feelings and love them and keep moving. I think your lovely and your sharing of your journey is something I’m very thankful for. Go Elsie!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:15am

  483. 483: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    ELSIE!!!!! The anger is awesome!!! Love it and FEEL it sweets. Go let it out somewhere, or sink in it and let whatever is underneath come up……………… let it flow and and know it’s all good. Be not afraid or it, it’s just you and you are lovely………….. all of you, is absolutley gorgeous. Let in come and be released, Love ya and big hugs, Seahorse

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:20am

  484. 484: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    I agree that feeling this anger and going into it is really important. Knowing you via your comments…there is no danger you are going to be sucked into anger forever…you will be released from it and see the positive side ultimately but for now FEEL IT!!!!!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:23am

  485. 485: sensuouswomanNo Gravatar says:

    I have not posted in a while…but wanted to tell you guys about a tool that worked for me over the weekend… and the amazing thing about the tools is if we use them they will contribute greatly to our personal growth… so they are at least two dimensional maybe even three.

    I have a new man in my life… and for now there is no need for circular dating because he is sticking close to me…texting me a couple of times a day and talking to me every night.

    This weekend I was at his place… and we had a disagreement about something.. I got mad at him for something that I felt he did. Basically what he did was provoke me and then turn the tables on me.. because he says he likes to get me riled up.. This reaction by him made me very sad and I seriously considered coming back to my place for the night.

    I journal-ed trying to write him a note.. but ended up figuring out what my core emotion was… and it was not anger but deep hurt.

    I decided to kiss him goodbye while he was taking a nap.. and told him that I was leaving for the night that I did not want to be around him because I was sad. He sat up in the bed and looked at me and asked me to explain.

    So I explained using as few words as I could… and of course using as many feeling descriptions I could muster..

    He said “ok, you are mad”..
    .. I said “no, I am hurt and sad”…. So he apologized and that was that….

    . but the interesting thing was that the mad was not the original emotion.. it was a great sadness that was my original emotion.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:28am

  486. 486: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you seahorse and Olivia – I”m angry, but not FURIOUS. I”m upset and frustrated because I’m confused. Everything is perfect, for a year and a half. I open myself up to him because he asks me to. Everything is perfect emotionally and physically between us. And then for some reason, just no reason at all, he says he doesnt crave seeing me. And I know that he says its partly because he is exhausted and that after this is all over he wants to date me normally and tell everyone etc. but who knows when that will be – and he is just FINE with letting me go until then? And he is just FINE knowing that I may not be there when he gets around to me? Am I worth so little to him? He said that I shoudl know that his feelings never chang e- but apparently they DID change, because I dont see him at my house anymore and there are no more texts on my phone…..so obviously SOMETHING changed.

    Gross, slimy, oily, icky feelings. I just want to feel fresh and clean and happy. I feel oily. I dont know how to describe it – but I feel so tethered to him emotionally and not clean and fresh and light.

    I want to feel that way again. But I’m so upset and confused. He still never made it clear exactly what it is – probably because he doesnt know. But you dont go from giving someone a TV and a DVD player and probably one of the most romantic nights ever, to deciding a couple of weeks later that you dont want to be with them physically etc.

    This is a guy who would come over in the middle of the night just to sit next to me. Where is he now?

    Althought it shouldnt make me feel worthless it does because I should be WORTH him coming over and since nothing changed, I dont understand why he isnt.

    I’m just venting. I”m not really even that upset and I’m certainly not crying. I’m just in the muck.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:30am

  487. 487: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Elsie

    Thanks :-)

    don’t be jealous! Ok! because I still don’t know it will work… he could ( and has before) changed his mind. Not that I’m putting that out there, but it’s a pattern, we’ll see… He also said it’s a trail period… I’m happy but also not having any expectations right now… also keep in mind that “M” an I are 50 and we have both learned a lot over the years and have had so much life experiences that we grew up a lot… Men tend to get better with age… at least some do… I don’t know much about GS… but I know the feelings you are having, I’ve had in the past with men….and I know that craving feeling..

    The new man sounds good and available and leading… that could end up being something solid… and believe me it’s so much more of a turn on when the man if available, and chasing you… you will have a whole new experience with desire…

    love you! thinking about you and hoping this new man, rocks your world! You deserve it! You are so very worthy of so much love and joy!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:32am

  488. 488: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @AprilRose {[hugs}}

    I hope your ok!


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:35am

  489. 489: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie- You are worth it. You are worth it all. We are all worth it all. Make yourself the priority and never ever change that. I say this next thing with care and love………………… Why was it perfect? If it was, why did it end? ……………. where did it go? Was it really perfect? Or were we fooling ourselves?

    p.s. I caught that ‘we’ in there…………….;)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:38am

  490. 490: seahorseNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa- Reading your story gave me the feeling of such awe. The coming together of all your working with the tools………. Thank you Lisa:)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:40am

  491. 491: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Thanks! :-)

    Yes, I did yesterday! Usually I don’t get exhausted ( that is the psychology in me) because I want things to be open honest and loving… but yesterday I wanted to scream and he is the one that wanted to continue talking… and it was hard b/c he was venting at me for the things he was upset with me about… and even though I apologized he still was so hurt he kept bringing it up… I tend to let things go…he tends to hang on to them and talk about them over and over… uggg…

    “M” realized that our NOT talking about things in a timely manner he calls it… was causing so much issues, that he said, I don’t want things to build up… let’s deal with them as they show up… that way we don’t have to have these long exhausting talks…that’s why I love Rori’s concept it is about dealing with things as they show up…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:46am

  492. 492: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “I mean,I can sugar coat it as much as I want, but at the end of the day NOTHING has change.d NOTHING. only him not wanting to be with me. ”

    Saying “nothing” has changed _is_ sugar coating it Elsie :-)

    It has changed– for one thing, you are 8 months further down the road. A good man knows that getting more serious in your circumstances is not possible. He can’t give you what you need, that is not good for either of your esteem.

    You were less and less happy with the situation. Even if you weren’t expressing it to him, it shows up in your vibe. Everything you shared here indicated increasing levels of need, dissatisfaction, dis-trust, and desperation.

    It’s interesting to me that you are now presented with a quandary with collegeCD. Going to his house to watch a movie is kind of a ” friends” thing to do– or something you do after you’ve been dating a while. I’m wondering if there is something in your vibe that attracts men on a “friends” level, but not in the “craving”, romantic, passionate way that you say you want ?


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:48am

  493. 493: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel confused right now and maybe kind of guilty. Is it wrong to date other men and accept their affection, adoration, and gifts to me… while all along, my energy and my emotions are wrapped in another?

    Two of the men I have been circular dating have been making it very apparent that they are falling in love with me. The intensity of their pursuit, their gifts, and them even talking about it make me know that this is true.

    How do I let them know that while I do enjoy the attention, I am not experiencing the same emotional or physical attraction that they are?

    I am being asked out on dates by other men as well, but almost start to feel guilty because I know that it would crush either of these other two men to know that I am still dating.

    I have not yet found the type of energy connection with a man that makes me forget my ex. I guess that is what I’m looking for. A man who will loom so large in my heart that I no longer think about Greg.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:55am

  494. 494: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – 484 – I see you expecting him to think, behave, and feel like you do. Just because you would behave one way doesn’t mean another person will be the same as you.

    He’s dealing with whatever he’s dealing with in HIS way. And how he’s dealing with things has NOTHING to do with how he feels about you.

    It’s seems that he’s just not ready to have a relationship, and it’s also possible he may never be ready. He may be familiar with poor treatment and hasn’t reached that place inside where he actively wants to change this pattern in himsefl. And you are not fitting this pattern.

    This may or may not change, yet are you willing to wait for this maybe?

    Whatever bad feeling feelings you are carrying right now WILL change. Feelings DO change as long as you allow them all which gives them room to move on through you and/or transform into something else.


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:59am

  495. 495: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    Hmm wondering why my comment went to moderation…was it too long? Maybe there’s a backlog…

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:00am

  496. 496: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    So so true Curvy.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:02am

  497. 497: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Are all these questions serving you?

    You will never fully know his thoughts and feelings, and even if you did, would you necessarily feel any better?

    His reasons don’t matter, and you will exhaust yourself and make yourself feel dreadful trying to figure them out. Please for your own sake, don’t let your mind make up logical arguments about all of this, such as “I must not be good enough”, “he must not love me any more”, “he would never do this if he was a good man” etc. etc. etc.

    Just don’t Elsie. Hold your memories close, and think of them fondly whenever you simply have to think of him. But please don’t let your mind go down this road.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:02am

  498. 498: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    @Andrea -I hope there are some comments on your question. At what point are you enjoying and receiving the attention and then were does the line cross into being sort of a jerk for accepting “too much” when you know the guy is hurting?

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:03am

  499. 499: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea I would really sink into myself to be clear. Needy guys tend to try too hard at times. Especially with gifts.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:07am

  500. 500: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    @andrea “I have not yet found the type of energy connection with a man that makes me forget my ex. I guess that is what I’m looking for. A man who will loom so large in my heart that I no longer think about Greg.”

    To share my experience…I adore and love my ex-bf BUT i am also happy in a new relationship. No one will ever take his place but it doesn’t mean I can’t be happy growing and loving in something new. :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:10am

  501. 501: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Two separate issues.

    It’s *not* wrong to date when you are not over someone yet.

    If you are seeing someone and they tell you they are falling in love and you don’t feel the same– you must be honest with them. it doesn’t matter why you are not feeling the same way. What matters is you express that you don’t feel the same so the guy can make his own decision about whether to continue or not. Unrequited love is soul crushing….


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:12am

  502. 502: CurvySiren10No Gravatar says:

    Elsie, I have to run but just want to say that he may just be tired of the juggling routine. The double life. I know how that feels. it’s exhausting and something has to give eventually…and he chose your relationship- for now. I’ll write more later but I feel sure I’m on the right track with this.
    ps. I think the anger is good. Necessary. Embrace it and let it help you heal.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:15am

  503. 503: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Just pondering what you said about movie at his house…

    not sure if this is helpful

    but I used to tell men that I don’t do that until later on in the dating relationship… “I’m not ready for that” is what I would say. Then I’d say, I’d love to go to a theater and see a movie that sounds great to me…

    I was very frank and yet soft… what my requirements would be …

    much love

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:30am

  504. 504: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – 491 – This is a great lesson for you in learning how to receive. A wonderful lesson.

    And it’s not your job to protect their feelings. You can’t control this anyway no matter what you do or don’t do.

    I feel curious though – Are you truly not feeling it? Are you hung up on an idea of what a love connection needs to look like and feel like? Are you remaining fully open and curious about them. Are you maybe blocking a deeper feeling to grow for whatever reason, maybe G?

    Can you give this more time before writing them off as potential love connections?


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:31am

  505. 505: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Such interesting things are happening now that my focus is entirely off men and dating. Feelings about other stuff are coming to the surface. I’ve been having very intense and wild dreams. I’ve had sexual dreams about people I’ve never consciously felt attracted to during the day! This morning I woke up thinking about a whole series of little events that have felt joy-stealing to me over the past few years. It seems like this was all being avoided by focus on men and dating. I feel intrigued and will keep going with this.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:43am

  506. 506: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Also, I don’t know if it will be permanent and it was already starting to happen in the couple weeks before this new experiment … I have been feeling increasingly uninterested in alcohol.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:46am

  507. 507: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    anyone had experience with how the tools help with finances? I’m not a believer of the law of attraction concept…affirmations etc., but I do believe our core beliefs do cause our life to unfold a certain way. Which I love the tools b/c they help with core beliefs.

    I’m just curious about if anyone has had the work they do with Rori’s tools also spilling over into other areas of their life, like finances.

    I’m trying to find out what beliefs I have that is blocking money… I know through my work with Rori’s tools… I’ve found beliefs like “I need to be punished”, ” I don’t deserve to be happy” and just wondering if any of you siren’s have found underlying beliefs while working the tools that might be connected to money..

    I love Rori’s newsletters b/c I’ve gotten so many really good core beliefs that I have from her letters to other women…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:16am

  508. 508: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I wanted to watch your videos you posted for me the other day, then I had all the emotional stuff come up… and now there has been so many posts…I don’t know how to find them… Is there a way to search for the posts on this blog? Or do I just have to scroll and find posts… just curious b/c I wanted to bookmark them to watch…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:31am

  509. 509: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’ve had that too… strange dreams… the more my focus has been on me… and my work the more intense and very interesting my dreams have been…

    sounds wondeful that your noticing this…

    I’ve had this strong desire to not focus on men at all ( even though I’m in a relationship) b/c I’m noticing the more I don’t focus on him, the more I’m having anger surface regarding all the wasted time I’ve spent over decades of worrying about men, thinking about men, desiring men, and addicted to men and how that has robbed me of my precious time and other people and my passions in live…

    I guess I’m realizing that I’ve not focused on ME enough so far, and it bites… I mean I never ever accomplished anything by over focusing on men….. actually I’m finding the opposite to be true… I accomplish more and feel more fulfilled when I don’t allow my mind to focus on men…

    Thanks for sharing that brought things up for me…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:37am

  510. 510: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Lisa. Yea exactly, feel more focused and happier. So happy that I’m losing my interest in “analyzing” other people’s stuff, including men and really everyone else too.

    Also happy that I’m feeling less defensive. A guy lashed out at me on a FB thread today and I noticed that unlike in the past I didn’t take it personally. Then he sent me a friend request, and I recognized a pattern I’ve seen many times before. Men trying to get love and attention from me by criticizing me … and then I see wow this isn’t about me at all. This is his misdirected way of trying to get love and attention. I’m just caught in the middle of someone’s patterns. And it was easy to say no to the friend request. No thanks, that doesn’t feel good and I’ve already got a long wait-list of friend requests.

    For money, what’s worked for me consistently is tapping. That’s what I do for a living though is teach people how to tap for what they want in life, so my posts here are not going to be about that.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:56am

  511. 511: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    Elsi, what if all of this is happening becase you are worthy of SOOO much more?!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 11:18am

  512. 512: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, please overlook my typos. 😉

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 11:40am

  513. 513: smileNo Gravatar says:

    Hi sirens,

    So today brings the start of my 2 week committment to myself to spend some time each day learning how to meditate.

    Ive thought about it sooo much over the last year but never actually done it. Thought id write it on hear to make it more official and motivate myself.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 11:42am

  514. 514: smileNo Gravatar says:

    Erika, teaching tapping for a living.. . Im in awe :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 11:45am

  515. 515: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks smile :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 11:57am

  516. 516: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa you might also want to check out Natalie Ledwell for helping you to uncover negative beliefs.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:00pm

  517. 517: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Also Andrea remember this is very new. I believe less than 6 months? So these guys are trying to impress you and are likely on their best behavior. I would just enjoy it all. Don’t cross a bridge before you get there. Until they say they have fallen in love with you and want you all to themselves I would not worry about leading them on.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:06pm

  518. 518: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I’m wondering if there is something in your vibe that attracts men on a “friends” level, but not in the “craving”, romantic, passionate way that you say you want ?”

    I believe it is all the giving of so much time, all the talking and the intensity. One hour and a half for lunch while at work. All the time on the first date. I believe to have a man crave a woman the woman has to leave him wanting more. Cut the amount of time spent with them just to at least see what happens, I believe Luzydel shared something similar earlier on. If a man gets all the time he needs with you all the time and you coming up kinda in his face must leave him feeling satisfied. There’s got to be some pulling away for him to feel the need to chase and to crave.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:12pm

  519. 519: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Smile :-)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:13pm

  520. 520: smileNo Gravatar says:

    Hi april rose! Lovely to ‘see’ you :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:29pm

  521. 521: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I went to the party, driving along dark and misty country lanes for about eight miles to get there. I felt shivery, though the night was warm, and I felt excited and naughty and all lit up with mystery and strangeness of being on the road in my camper van in the eerie night.
    The party was in the grounds of a big country house, and it looked like a scene from a fairy tale, with twinkling lights and braziers burning (not brassieres!!)
    Steam rose from a turquoise swimming pool, where people laughed and sipped cocktails while bathing.

    I found my friend, and after a quick glance at all the guests I decided she and i were the youngest and prettiest women there, and that felt great!

    Honestly, I had a ball. I had my best dress on and everyone complimented me on it. I circular dated every guest at that party (35 men and women) and I felt so feminine and free and happy. I feel that way when I’m single and open to meeting a man.

    I even had some alcohol, which I rarely touch. The host went off to prepare a special cocktail for me of my choice (from his list of ingredients). He returned with a large glass of fruit juice which he said had cointreau and gin in it. He looked nervous as he passed it to me. I tasted it, it felt like rich fruity syrupy nectar with a kick. I gushed “delicious” and his face transformed into a picture of delight.

    I thought “So this is how it feels to experience a man doing something for a woman to make her feel good. And it appears to make him feel good too. Wow!”

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:29pm

  522. 522: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Circular Dating is a “therapeutic” process where you practice all of my Tools on men in the field – not only “work on them” in a therapist’s office.

    The men who show up are your free therapists.

    As you work with them, and treat them with respect and listen for the messages they bring you – the men who show up will be better and better quality, and your personal Degree of Difficulty will go up and up – and THAT’S when Mr. Right shows up.

    Sometimes – and this is a very interesting thing – he shows up when you feel like you’re at rock bottom – at your absolute worst.

    So, you might think, how can that be? If I’m at my “worst” – not together financially, spiritually, psychologically, emotionally – how can a GOOD man want me?

    And this is why:

    When we’re at rock bottom – when we’re that “stripped” and “low” – we’re also often at our most vulnerable and authentic. And that’s what this is all about.

    When we’re at rock bottom – we’ve stopped trying. We’ve stopped searching, stopped reaching out, stopped overfunctioning. We give up.

    And a man can find you when you’re at rock bottom, if you’ve given in to it.


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:31pm

  523. 523: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, I’ve realized also that I get caught up easily in people stuff ( projection) and even with “M” I found it so easily the projection of his stuff on to me… ( which in reality is what we all do) but I’m learning to discern that and say NO thank you, I’m not going to get projected onto b/c of your shit… ( pardon my french) and I did that yesterday… I was able to stand my ground, and say this is unfair, It feels painful and NO! I found that it is great for me to say what I’m feeling and so great that you did not friend someone that is clearly looking for someone to share in his toxic need for dysfunctional love…

    Tapping I’ve done… but it helps me when I tap to have the belief in mind… and I’m searching for that hidden belief ( that is alluding me) that I can tap …..



    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:38pm

  524. 524: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose it sounds like something out of a fairy tale. I don’t know why Cinderella comes to mind.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:40pm

  525. 525: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    I had such a happy time. I barely gave WM a thought.

    My friend and me had so much fun exploring the grounds and dancing, and then playing on a child’s tricycle which we discovered in the garden. We could both sit on it, hoisting our skirts up, and another guest gave us a push so that we were travelling quite fast along the gravel path, making quite a bit of noise and attracting attention. I laughed so much and felt so silly and happy and free and delighted to have a friend who’s just as playful as I feel.

    Most of the guests were in couples, yet I found the one single man (the host introduced him to me) and he and I chatted more and more playfully throughout the night. Something in me could not believe the extent of the understanding we discovered in our sense of humour (that’s “humor” to you Elsie!!!)
    It got to the ppoint where I found our interaction so funny and original that I wished we were being filmed for television.

    I’m ready for more parties, and my ‘single’ feeling which lifts my spirits.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:44pm

  526. 526: smileNo Gravatar says:

    April rose , @519 beautiful words :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:44pm

  527. 527: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Here are the Top 5 Limiting Money Beliefs that afflict 99% of the population – one of which you may have buried in your subconscious mind that’s been working against you for years, maybe even decades…

    #1: There is not enough money to go around.

    #2: It takes money to make money.

    #3: It’s greedy for me to want more.

    #4: If I become wealthy people will hate me.

    #5: I’m not worthy.

    Is one of these limiting beliefs sabotaging your income in ways that you may not even consciously realize?


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:46pm

  528. 528: smileNo Gravatar says:

    Ooooo I feel all inspired and aware of being a poet rather than a reporter.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:48pm

  529. 529: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 525 – I got that in an email

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:48pm

  530. 530: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Natalie Ledwell on Limiting Beliefs


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:51pm

  531. 531: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Re. your posting of Rori’s writing on CDing in 520, it brings to mind an English journalist, who at age 50 decided to go on dates with 100 men in six weeks.

    She wrote in a magazine about her experiences of almost interviewing each man, and how six of them remained her good friends. But she did not want to continue with any of them romantically.

    After the six weeks were up, and she’d dated 100 men, she felt a little downhearted. Anyway, she had another look on the dating website she’d been using, and to cut a long story short accepted one more date. And he turned out to be the one! When she’d given up!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:51pm

  532. 532: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    She married him and they’re very happy.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:52pm

  533. 533: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you, Smile,

    I love to really express words to paint a picture for you.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:55pm

  534. 534: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

    — Marilyn Monroe

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 12:59pm

  535. 535: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose, your night sounds so enchanted! Did you feel like you had wings? I would have, & would have envisioned what they looked like too. 😉

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:02pm

  536. 536: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Alexandra Fox

    Cheater Sign #1
    He’s Extremely Jealous

    Ever heard of the saying, “Thieves fear getting robbed?”

    It’s one of those proverbs that also apply to cheaters.
    Cheaters fear getting cheated on.

    I once had a reader named “Christine” who dated a guy named “Dan.” Dan was a real player. On his movie dates with Christine, he’d have the nerve to bring along ANOTHER girl or two – and when Christine complained about it, he’d tell her the other girls were just “like little sisters” to him.


    But once Christine started working with “Matt,” a fellow web designer, Dan became incredibly jealous. He started discouraging Christine from meeting, calling, or even e-mailing Matt. And whenever he heard Matt’s name, he’d try to make Christine feel guilty.

    Later on, Christine realized Dan was really cheating on her, and broke up with him… but not before wasting 3 years of her life dating him.

    If your man is extremely jealous of the other guys in your life… but he doesn’t seem to care how YOU feel when he hangs out with other women… that’s a HUGE sign of a potential cheater.

    Is he extremely jealous?

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:04pm

  537. 537: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I just realized April Rose – your night sound like a passion story that just draws me in.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:06pm

  538. 538: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – They are all right at the end of the last thread – 542-545. :)


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:07pm

  539. 539: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    So, next day (the morning after)

    I’m at the party and it’s the next day and I’m feeling woozy with lack of sleep, but not hungover at all. I get dressed feeling nervous about going home.
    About 15 of the guests have stayed over, having camped in a field taken straight from a picture postcard (the kind used to advertise butter!)

    We’re gathered round someone’s campstove which is cooking up pans of eggs and beans and a big silver pot of tea. It’s time I’m supposed to be leaving and I feel sad because I’m happy here and don’t want to go back to you-know-who.

    Anyway, I decide to confirm our work appointment. So I phone – it’s 9.30am. He answers and HE IS NOT EVEN AWARE I HAVE GONE OUT!!!

    Okay, we have seperate bedrooms, but really!!!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:09pm

  540. 540: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Cinderella. Absolutely. She is how I feel.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:14pm

  541. 541: DanielleNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Rori PLEASEEEEE please please personally answer my question I need your advice :)

    Okay, this, I feel, is somewhat unconventional type of a question but I have a feeling you will have some very valuable advice for me anyway….

    I have been afraid to dance in public, in front of people, for quite some time (actually, since I can remember).

    At first, I felt that it was that I couldn’t dance because, lets be real, I had no rhythm.

    And because I wanted to dance, I took dance lessons. And now, I feel, I’m not half bad! In fact, I feel like I’m pretty good! And I have actually videoed myself dancing in my home and am pretty impressed with myself.

    The problem is, the fear of dancing in front of people has not gone away. My heart starts beating. I get nervous. I feel like people are all looking at me…Judging me…I get rigid….And just stand there feeling super uncomfortable.

    My boyfriend (yes I know you don’t like that word :) has been trying to get me to dance when we’re out but for some reason I freeze….

    Does the wise Rori Raye have any advice for this? I know you love to dance :) Maybe some psychological reason that I do this and some reasoning to help me talk to myself and to get over it? Like accepting myself and dancing for myself ?(etc :)

    THANK YOU!!! Feel free to use my e.mail in your mass e.mails. You are an inspiration to me and I feel so much better in relationships now thanks to you and your siren program:).

    Thanks Again,


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:15pm

  542. 542: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, I love the way you spell “colour”. :) Isn’t it so important? Color (colour) is like an embrace for the senses. There’s so much potential & magic in it.

    With my word usage, I’m realizing more & more that I’m a bit of a mystic. Yes!!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:22pm

  543. 543: smileNo Gravatar says:

    Looking up into the vast night sky. Such a beautiful mystery.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  544. 544: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    Wow April Rose, he might be a bit clueless. 😉 Hold the experiences you had at the party close to your heart. It sounds incredible.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:25pm

  545. 545: smileNo Gravatar says:

    The unknown seems less daunting somehow tonight. An exciting future awaits. But for now im enjoying the present.
    Living each day at a time.
    Today im thank ful for my nephew.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:32pm

  546. 546: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!!

    Clueless or not, the message I get is that a woman is so commited to creating a happily ever after. Yet the man doesn’t even seem to be in the boat. Must less want to row.

    I do believe the tools can work on any man. I believe they work magic with the man who wants to be in the relationship.

    I have heard that the worst thing is to be in a relationship and feel lonely.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:35pm

  547. 547: smileNo Gravatar says:

    For a while now ive been creating in my mind, visualising being an amazing parent, creating a famiky life. Its refreshing to have this outlook and enjoy the present rather than be unhappy longing for that future.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:45pm

  548. 548: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you, yes I will hold the experiences close to my heart, and call upon the feelings I felt at the fairytale party.
    Funny you should mention wings – there were a couple of brightly dressed ladies there wearing wings!
    MovingMagic is a mystic, yay!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:47pm

  549. 549: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @FW yes, the worst thing is to be in a relationship and be lonely… I agree…

    I am an expert at how that feels… being with as person with autism who is so self involved and only wants to be alone… it was He…double L

    I think just from my own experience with the tools…that they even work on my ex “M” who is Asperger’s syndrome… though not as well. but still they work… that says a LOT..

    On a side note: for me I’m just venting now… any man that needs lots of alone time ( and I’m still figuring this out with “M” boyfriend) I question that b/c a man that wants a relationship with intimacy doesn’t.. I didn’t pay attention to that with my ex “M”.. and boy did I learn a hard hard lesson…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 1:57pm

  550. 550: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Everything you said in 545… well …. your words, your clarity. To say thank you would feel nowhere near the immensity of gratitude I have in my heart for you, and what it feels like you have dealt me; shock therapy.

    I have relentlessly poured Rori’s tools into my being, and poured my being into my longing for a beautiful relationship.

    I make a flowing inroad into his heart, for a day, or maybe a week at a time. Then I make a mistake, criticise, or judge him. And he opts out of the picture. Jumps out of the boat. Just leaves a mask behind, or a photo of himself. And yes, I feel alone.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:00pm

  551. 551: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    That is so true about everyman shows up is your therapist… I believe that and also every person in your life that shows up…. for me anyways… yes, paying attention if the key to therapy…

    I love that saying about giving up… and you pointed out to me that I can surrender and not give up…

    I really love that… thanks!!!!

    I think that happened to me last night… I just didn’t want to try anymore… humm great info!!


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:03pm

  552. 552: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Zara, can I tweak what you wrote in 457 to fit a boat instead of a car?

    Just trying it out to feel how it feels:

    The boat is not going to even start off if nobody picks up the oars. I can fool myself and say “Well, I am going to take the oars just to start the boat moving, and he will take it from there.” I might spend years rowing us around, waiting for him to take the oars from my hands. Years exhausting myself and making myself sick. And making him feel inadequate. When I finally listen to my body and I stop rowing, the boat is adrift. Two bewildered passengers. The boat is lost, no-one taking charge of it.
    The best thing is to get out of the boat (if you can take courage to row yourself to shore) and from there on, only accept a boat trip with a willing and able captain.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:29pm

  553. 553: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “It may take time to get into a positive routine, but all habits take time to develop. You might find it weird to get used to seeing yourself as an irresistible woman who’s fine just the way she is
    (in spite of her perfectly human imperfections), but you’ll eventually learn to affirm yourself.

    Remember: Low self-esteem ends when you stop pushing yourself towards perfection.

    Having goals and making the most of your life is one thing, but the need to be flawless 100% of the time is another. Nothing is more attractive than being at peace with who you are – a relaxed vibe puts guys at ease and naturally attracts them!”

    All the best,

    Jeremy Sullivan & Dean Cortez

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:33pm

  554. 554: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Wow reading that excerpt above from Rori about just giving up … what a synchronicity …

    I was on a FB thread in a new group and talking about controversial triggering ideas like eternal youth and financial abundance for everyone … and people were coming at me …

    and this was before I came over here to read the comments. My habitual response is to argue with them or attack back … and I just didn’t. I could see that others were triggered and projecting but I didn’t need to point that out or even be “right” about it in my own mind.

    I stopped, and I sat in the very triggered energy of the thread, trauma energy, and I got to some sadness, and I posted from there about how money and love are just energies, nothing bad in and of themselves. We just get them all associated with bad stuff, and then whenever anyone talks about money or love we feel pain instead of joy. And the whole energy of the thread changed. They stopped attacking me.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:34pm

  555. 555: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    The boat will start off but the other captain will get frustrated and jump overboard. I will keep rowing while shouting into the lake “come on, get back in my boat, I beg you to see how good at rowing I am.” And the masculine energy in his own boat, with his passenger’s seat available, says “yeah, yeah, you are good, but I am not getting back in your boat. I am a captain, you know? I feel eager to cherish a passenger’s feelings, I will keep rowing until I meet a passenger. I hope you’ll find yours”.
    If I am wise enough to stop pursuing this captain, I become aware of the passengers on the shore who are looking to be rowed.
    Or I become aware that maybe I’d feel so much more at peace as a passenger myself. May be I am not a captain after all…

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:37pm

  556. 556: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Wow now I’m just full on crying. One of the women who was being hardest on me just sent me a PM and said this:

    “It’s rare I post in this group. I was drawn to your thread. I just want you to know how brave you are for being in such a turmoil of egos and the bombarding of opinions.”

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:38pm

  557. 557: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    From my astrological compatibility report with WM:
    (Note: this section is about direction of energy flow, and shows up despite the woman having a feminine moon sign, and the man having a masculine one)

    “Your relationship is set up so that the energy will flow from the woman to the man, which is not the ideal situation. Several difficulties can arise because of this.

    The flow of your relationship throws the woman into the doer role more often than not. This could have the result of the woman feeling like the man does not care about the relationship as much as she does, since she is ending up being responsible for everything.
    Since the energy is not flowing from the man to the woman, the man will not get the opportunity to do as much, which will not give the woman the opportunity to appreciate the many things he might do for her. Just when the man is starting to think of what needs to be done in the relationship, the woman is already doing it. Again, the man does not get the opportunity to do anything for the woman and the woman does not get the opportunity to feel like the man is really willing to do right by her.”

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:46pm

  558. 558: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose and Zara –

    “The boat will start off but the other captain will get frustrated and jump overboard. I will keep rowing while shouting into the lake “come on, get back in my boat, I beg you to see how good at rowing I am.” And the masculine energy in his own boat, with his passenger’s seat available, says “yeah, yeah, you are good, but I am not getting back in your boat. I am a captain, you know? I feel eager to cherish a passenger’s feelings, I will keep rowing until I meet a passenger. I hope you’ll find yours”.
    If I am wise enough to stop pursuing this captain, I become aware of the passengers on the shore who are looking to be rowed.
    Or I become aware that maybe I’d feel so much more at peace as a passenger myself. May be I am not a captain after all…”


    I was totally wanting to cherish the T’s and C’s feelings, I wanted B to open up to me so I could cherish his, I cherished TC’s feelings so long ago.
    I feel so much more centered in myself now, that just sounds like..wounded self trying to ‘get’ something, get get get get.

    I feel open to receiving now, and feeling cherished.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:47pm

  559. 559: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:48pm

  560. 560: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    and this…

    “When the woman is being thrown into the active and doer role in a relationship, the healthy development of her feminine side may be neglected and she may become drained and even ill.”

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:48pm

  561. 561: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I’m just giving in to giving up, in everything. This has been coming for some weeks now …

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:52pm

  562. 562: April RoseNo Gravatar says:


    “I feel open to receiving now, and feeling cherished.”

    Me too. Yes, I too have arrived at this place.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:52pm

  563. 563: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks BeLoved

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 2:57pm

  564. 564: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “I’m just giving in to giving up, in everything.”

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:09pm

  565. 565: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    The famous writer C.S Lewis once said “You do not have a soul, you ARE a soul. What you have…is a body”

    Beautiful isn’t it? I think that quote resonates with a lot of us. Now here’s another thought…

    If we are indeed souls having a body. How much of our outer reality is governed by the state of our spiritual self?

    Soul, vibrations, energy body, auras….it doesn’t matter what you call it.

    The point is many masters say “as is within, is without” – meaning, the stuff that goes on ‘within’ us, determines what we experience in the physical world.

    We know how to train our bodies. But can we train our spirit? I discovered that the answer is yes.

    And its more than simplistic statements like “your thoughts shape your reality”.

    The truth is, you can think positive thoughts all you want – but your reality is not determined by your thoughts as much as it is by your Energetic Frequency.

    If you haven’t heard of this model, I invite you to tune in.

    >>>This Thursday I’ll be hosting a webinar on a Energetic Frequency http://mvlc.in/hqJUC

    All of us vibrate on a scale of 1 to 1000. Raise your vibration, and amazing things start to appear. Not just shifts in your physical life, but newfound abilities.

    This will be the subject of our conversation this Thursday.

    >>> Grab your free seat for the workshop.

    Peace and Love,

    Christie Marie Sheldon

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:11pm

  566. 566: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “b/c a man that wants a relationship with intimacy doesn’t”

    Lisa, am I reading that correctly? “A man that wants a relationship with intimacy, doesn’t want a lot of alone time”?

    I couldn’t disagree more….

    I guess it depends on what you mean by “intimacy”….lol

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:12pm

  567. 567: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    236: seahorse says:

    ***** Zara- Thank you once again. From the top to the bottom THANK YOU:)

    …………………………… The Rise of the Black Madonna! I love that, sounds good to out loud and FEELS even better!*****

    The Black Madonna rising to heal the world…



    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:26pm

  568. 568: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    ***** 237: seahorse says:

    Zara!!! I just checked out Dr. Pat Allen’s web site………… I live close and am going to her evening class!!!! I feel deep in my soul a very………very big something……..it’s big and really feels………………. right. I feel excited and anticipation for this. Thank you again! Rise of the Black Madonna indeed!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!! I am full of vim and vigor and a very big helping of Zippity Do Dah Day!!!!! Love ya, Seahorse

    p.s. ………..and the beach is right there too!!!! Double win!!*****

    I feel so excited for you!
    I feel impatient and thrilled to hear about your experience.



    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:28pm

  569. 569: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Well yes, it is all relative to anyone’s needs desires etc…

    and in my case, he ( my ex) ended up with asperger’s syndrome which is a very self absorbed non typical desire for mostly alone time.. so depends on what anyone would say is alot, plus they are not really capable of much intimacy at all… (neurologically) … they are very distant.

    Some people need more than others… true

    but for me, if a man needs hours at a time constantly… like only wants short spells of time with me… that isn’t cultivating intimacy… in my opinion.

    although intimacy is a relative term… I think that some people are only capable of less intimacy than others… and with Rori’s tools I’m seeing how deepening intimacy really possible…

    I think it is important to talk about those needs early on so that one doesn’t expect when things get closer to co-habitation that the other person’s desires for together time isn’t way off…

    I’m figuring that out myself in my relationship… he says he needs about 2-3 maybe 4 hrs a day of alone time… and I’m wondering how and if that might work with me… if a person only has 3-4 hrs at night to be up and awake and available to spend with someone… then that means 1 hr a day spent together or less… that might be great for some people… not sure for me.

    Though things seem to be headed in the right direction with “M” I still have to keep in mind if it will work for me… since things are very young in the relationship…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:30pm

  570. 570: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    I am giving up on Captain, that means no more contacts unless he does it first, but I get the feeling that he wont. I have been doing and suggesting and became anxious. That usually happens when I can sense something is off, but I cannot get quite what it is. I have to practice to state my needs, to ask questions, to stop pretending and acting like I am ok when I am not. To not be ing afraid of screwing it up. The truth is that I have nothing to loose if a man is back pedaling. I cannot loose what I don’t really have to begin with, so why being afraid of saying the wrong thing?

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:31pm

  571. 571: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    551 554 AprilRose

    I feel happy that you find a use for 405 and 457 because they were written answering this question you asked “Does this sound like a reversal of male-female polarity to you?”


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:33pm

  572. 572: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “I need do nothing.”

    I wonder what will happen if I really do nothing. I’m not really feeling like blogging or writing newsletters or selling or dating or anything, really. I give up. I feel done.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:33pm

  573. 573: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – 521 – YAY YOU!!! I feel so proud of you for stepping way out of your comfort zone and getting a taste of something new, maybe something better.


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:42pm

  574. 574: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “From the moment I made my commitment to refuse to try to “manage” my husband and my destiny, my life has been a treasure of peace, fun, love, success and surprises.”


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 3:43pm

  575. 575: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    I love this….

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:28pm

  576. 576: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    I love that women had on wings April Rose. It doesn’t get much more feminine than that. It’s funny, all of the men in my life have made reference to my faerie-like qualities & “wings”. I had stepped away from that sort of magic in my life, & feel a deep pull toward it again. I collected faerie wings, jewelry, & statues at one time. To this day my mother still decorates a faerie tree for me, for Christmas. Awww!! I feel light & airy.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:35pm

  577. 577: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks wildgeranium … wow 555 too that’s a number of “shaking things up” …

    K so I’m in a lot of grief now tapping these quantum videos. I feel like the rat on the bottom of the cage who got shocked no matter what it did so now it no longer responds to the shocks at all. In science they call it learned helplessness.

    Yet it also sounds like the “letting go and letting God.” The surrender.

    And I’m realizing that there is still a bit of this fear that if I do nothing, life won’t take care of me. That I *have* to work to live. And yet I don’t want to do anything. I don’t. I’m tired. I don’t see where the money is going to come from to pay my bills if I stop and do absolutely nothing. And yet everything in me is saying … Stop. Do. Nothing.

    I’m in the kind of sadness that feels like surrender.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:36pm

  578. 578: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    Yes, not speaking to the Aspurger’s Syndrome (which I’m not sure I would describe as self-absorbed because its an ASD and I don’t think people with the disorder can really do anything about their narrow focus and lack of empathy)–

    But I’ve found more and more how little intimacy has to do with the amount of time you spend with someone. Its so much more than that. Oceans more to it than that.

    I think everyone has different needs for the amount of time they spend with their significant other. A couple needs to be compatible like that, yes.

    But, intimacy is created in the nature of a connection and I believe it transcends the time you are together face to face. It should exist, and hopefully deepen, whether a couple is physically in each others presence or not.

    As far as loneliness, I lived *and* worked with a partner for 5 years and I have never been more lonely.


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 4:51pm

  579. 579: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “As far as loneliness, I lived *and* worked with a partner for 5 years and I have never been more lonely.”

    Thanks for being so honest. I was thinking today that I’d rather be alone than with the wrong guy. I don’t actually feel lonely when I’m alone. I feel drained being around the wrong guy so … alone is better by far.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 5:01pm

  580. 580: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    #569 Luzydel —Yay for giving up! :-)

    “only accept a boat trip with a willing and able captain”

    Huh……..I’ve been reading the boat analogy for 7 months and its just now occurred to me that CW is, in fact, a professional captain. LOL….
    Even more reason I need do nothing. The power struggle just keeps him from doing what he is best at.


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 5:05pm

  581. 581: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    #578….loneliness is complicated.
    I told CW I was lonely once and he said “I’m sorry you feel lonely but I can’t do anything about that”. At first I was pissed off. But, then I realized it was true. He is fine with us missing each other, but loneliness is different.

    To me loneliness is caused by ourselves–we are not giving enough to ourselves and filling up our own lives enough. When you’ve filled your life and satisfied your own loneliness, and you still miss him, its a good sign.

    “If you notice you are waiting for him to come back to your life to fill it back up again, fill your time again, then your life is too empty to have a successful relationship. That is a signal that you need to stay busy doing other things that make you happy so he is not the only source of your happiness.” —John Gray


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 5:17pm

  582. 582: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    WG #580

    Yea, I realize now that loneliness was a sign of not being connected to source. I don’t get it anymore because I don’t ever feel alone. I feel connected to Source all the time.

    And I don’t need to fill up my life with activities, either. For me, that would just be covering up my loneliness. Lately it’s been all about emptying my life out and simplifying. Yet I don’t feel empty or lonely.

    Other feelings, yes, like frustration with ideas about romance that don’t seem to fit me at all and I don’t want to try to pretzel myself into anymore … Lonely, no.

    That was why with creepy guy he seemed to think he was adding value to my life by filling up space. But that to me doesn’t add any value. He was right next to me and I felt almost zero connection. Physical intimacy doesn’t do much for me without real connection, and for me so important, shared purpose. So him taking up space was actually in opposition to what I’ve been doing with my life, which is simplifying and removing things/activities that feel draining to me. HE felt draining. Nightmarishly draining. While he was “trying” to “give” to me. It was like he was interfering with the intimacy I already have with myself … if I had succumbed to this as a relationship, I’m sure I would have felt lonelier with him than alone. Why would I do that to myself?

    Also your realization that he’s a professional captain made me smile … I love when the Universe gives us those synchronicity and coincidence … playful feeling :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 5:32pm

  583. 583: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Oh great thanks @ Dominique!


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 5:53pm

  584. 584: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I notice that I have very mixed feelings about being vulnerable on that thread. On the one hand, they stopped attacking me. On the other hand, the ideas that I had raised that led them to attack me – I was very careful not to attack anyone, it was the ideas themselves that were “threatening” … are important ideas for the salvation of the world.

    After stopping attacking me, the thread got diverted to a bunch of ideas about money and “conspiracy” that are pure ego and not going to help anybody.

    This goes back to a conversation I had with Rori about values. From my perspective, persuasion about values actually is important for the healing of the planet. And I’m really not sure vulnerability gets the job done. Maybe everyone feels more “comfortable” and stops attacking me, yet didn’t learn what needed to be learned. I feel very ambivalent about this.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:11pm

  585. 585: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’m reading the book attachment… and I have to say that I haven’t finished it yet, but that I would fall into the Secure category now.. and sometimes anxious at times, but not others.. b/c I do break up and can do it fairly easily. I also only get anxious when the other person I’m in a relationship with starts acting in a way that seems unhealthy… another words.. I mostly don’t obsess about it, and all unless it is in a place where things are going sour… but I do need to finish the book… But my upbringing was totally mixed with my mom being one way and my father the other … so not sure how that works…

    I’d say though that “M” is avoidant… however, in the beginning when I was totally Secure ( which I tend to toggle back and forth between Secure and Anxious ) I noticed things were different..

    Funny how he in the past had attracted women that were avoidant….. hummm

    anyways loving the book so far… I can’t wait to read more…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:15pm

  586. 586: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes – I just reviewed several posts you made to me back in December and I want to say THANK you, again!
    I feel so much gratitude for your clarity and sharing your experience.

    It feels SO difficult when I feel triggered and rattled, to really not just axe a connection, and not blame and judge myself for not knowing better, or believing I had it coming or some kind of story that makes me wrong or him wrong or somebody or the world wrong :)

    It felt soft, clear, and meaningful to hear you talk about friendship with J, without expectations, when you were just talking to him and not seeing him.
    I believe I can find that place in myself.
    I feel grateful I was triggered, I feel stronger and more connected than ever, all of that pain was actually for something, hooray!
    I can see it as a wave or turbulence and it doesn’t have to be “the end”.

    I feel SO grateful I didn’t approach him to smooth things over. I really needed to sink into all of the feelings that came up from NOT doing. From trusting.
    He is a man and will let me know if and when he is ready to talk and in the meantime,
    I will be my natural self at work.
    I see myself, going about my day with usual grace, ease, laughter and smiles. I can imagine myself holding my good feelings, regardless of how he acts.
    And…that’s all the thought I’ll put into it for now because it’s bedtime and it’s possible he won’t even be at work tomorrow – or anytime soon. Who knows with him, he’s like the wind.

    Thank you AGAIN and again, Mercedes!!

    Big hugs to you

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:17pm

  587. 587: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Oh – I do want to say…how grateful I feel for all of the massive feelings that came up the past couple of weeks.
    It was intense….intense…intense…
    now I can see some of what was so deeply painful.
    When I was a child, I was literally trained to shut down my heart and shift to hate and not caring.
    As in, my father would have sessions with me, and taunt and criticize, verbally and emotionally abuse me until I stopped crying and he could see the hate glittering in my eyes.
    He believed he was teaching me to be safe in the world.
    I had been doing that for decades…
    and WOW the burning searing pain from keeping my heart open..
    oh geez :)
    Yet WOW, how light and free and easy I felt with my whole family yesterday! Even my BIL found stuff we could agree on and joke about.
    The misogyny, the racist comments, the insensitive remarks only privileged people who have never really had to do without could make…all of it just made me feel so OPEN and grateful and appreciative and connected and in love with my whole big messy family.
    My heart felt very strong, and yet still I felt sensitive enough to earn my baby grandniece’s trust to hold and play with her (she is a Mama’s Girl), I approached her slowly and surely, I was all BabyWhisperer, lol.

    off to bed now
    g’night sirens
    much love

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:27pm

  588. 588: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved, I feel touched by your last two posts, thank you :)

    The fear in my last post being that when I’m vulnerable, it’s all good and nice and people don’t feel threatened by my presence and they are “nice” to me … and everyone stays in their same ideas and comfort zone that don’t work, in a spiritual community that’s not working out financially for so many healers, where God forbid you raise straight talk about money … and my vulnerability is yet just another reason not to question any of the beliefs that are creating the problems …

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 6:39pm

  589. 589: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – the lesson that comes up for me reading 587 is “My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability”


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:02pm

  590. 590: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    g’night y’all, fo REAL now :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:02pm

  591. 591: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks BeLoved. I need to work through some inner conflicts on this cuz it’s not unlike the situation with the guy. The sense it would take years of “feeling messages” to accomplish what direct transformation of beliefs can accomplish much faster. Sure, part of me likes to be liked and accepted and not attacked, but not at the price of my teaching integrity … or my honesty … or my effectiveness in my life purpose … so I need to work through some inner conflicts as these are seeming like either/ors to me right now. Good night and thank you.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:11pm

  592. 592: ElsieNo Gravatar says:


    College CD just texted me a while ago. He said “Hi there!!!” A half hour later I text ed back “hi :)” He then says “I have a question for you.” So I said “ok……” and then he says “LOL, I can totally hear you now saying OK (his name here” I said “haha….” and then 4 minutes pass and he says “Its nothing. Never mind.”

    WHAT!?! What do I say to THAT?! Weird, right? But I’m dying to know what he wanted to ask me …. I feel weird.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:27pm

  593. 593: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I don’t know take my advice with a grain of salt.. but for me… I would not text back and make him wonder… it seems as though he was wanting to get you to be “dying to know”… I might just not be dying to know… and lean back.. some…

    Sometimes when we text guys right back… it feels too leaning forward… I’d make him wait if it were me… by that is just me…

    Hey thanks again for recc.. that book to me, I’m totally into it…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:35pm

  594. 594: AnitaNo Gravatar says:

    I have been reading several of the sections on your web page and SEE SO many mistakes :-( I have made in the “relationship” (I use the term loosely) that I am in. He is pulling away fast and has been told by his therapist that he we need to work on a “healthy relationship” just go out on dates now and then and take out the sexual intimacy part. So I am “stepping back” not contacting him…not trying to set up plans to get together…but it is hurting so badly to loose my friend and companion…someone to talk with/share things with!!! My question for you is it possible, through your teachings that we can grow closer and save this relationship?…..or is it broken beyond repair? (BTW…he has HUGE commitment issues and we both are on the same page that “marriage” is off the table (he was married for 30 years and I for 13, he has been single for 5 and I for 16} I am not with out issues either and TRUST is my biggy” along with the “nasty voices” telling me I’m not “good enough”!) HELP PLEASE…and thank you so very much any guidance will be greatly appreciated!

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:39pm

  595. 595: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – Totally love that you like that book. I really really liked it.

    Well, I havent texted back because of that exact reason. I’m like thinking to myself ok – well if you want to be weird, then be weird. I”m not being baited into this – whatever it is (but secretly I am dying to know) LOL.

    He probably feels bad because what he was going to ask me something inappropriate or whatever. Thats on him not me.

    By the way I LOVE THE ANAOLGY OF ALL THE RWOING AND THE BOAT. My friends and I always talk about that – I think that is awesome!!! Love it!!!

    I’m not rowing any more boats. :)

    April Rose – I love your party – I wish I could have gone – it sounded lovely and the fact that you woke up in a field to breakfast – totally awesome. I love it – I”m sorry he dindt know you were gone – but who cares – that party sounded awesome! :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:40pm

  596. 596: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Elsie Yes, I do… still reading and learning… Thanks! I’m excited to learn more about it at the end…how to balance it ..

    I haven’t gotten far in Queen’s code.. I wish I could skip to the juicy stuff.. I don’t like story books…

    I feel weird tonight.. out of sorts.. exhausted… had weird dream last night about having another baby girl… premature one… that was barely hanging on for life…but she did.. it was very strange

    I haven’t done dream analysis on it yet…

    I am choosing trust… and assuming trust… though part of me still feels strange about “M” trip for a week….

    I’m not sure why… but I’m choosing trust… and leaning back… getting caught up on things… and hopefully sleep… rest..

    I need a clone… seriously… or win the lottery…

    What would happen if I didn’t do anything.. I’d be rested and restored… and in a big pile of mess that everyone left for me to clean.. not sure how I’d be financially but couldn’t be much worse financially… so @Erikaawakening… I’m considering that myself…

    It might just be the best thing I ever did!

    <3 {{hugs}}

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 7:57pm

  597. 597: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I just read this and for me it is so true…

    “When the egoic mind doesn’t have anything of real importance to focus on, it makes insignificant things important. The egoic mind makes life more serious and difficult than life needs to be. It makes some things that aren’t a matter of life and death seem like they are. This is one of the ways that we (our egos) make ourselves important: If what we’re doing is important, that means we are important.” Gina Lake

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:02pm

  598. 598: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie I’d say something like “I feel curious now.” :)

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:08pm

  599. 599: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    LOL – Ok. It was a flirt gone totally wrong on his part.

    I didnt text him back. (go me!!!!)

    He texted back and said “uh-hem. That was menat as a flirt – op” Meaning flirt opportunity.

    OK – I have no idea how. LOL. This is why texting sucks. LOL.

    So I texted back “LOL. I missed that…..I thought you were ogint to ask me a question and then just changed your mind….LOL.”

    He texted back and laughed and said….ok….so was that a date on Friday at lunch?

    I was like “Did you want it to be a date?”

    And he said “The rules specifically state that a question can not be answered with another quesiton.”

    I said “I never subscribed to those aforementioned rules.”

    It went on – and it was hysterical. Clearly, we BOTH thought it was a date, and this banter was hysterical.

    In the end, I just wrote “yes.”

    And he jumped on it and said “yes…yes….yes to what?”

    I said “yes to your question.”

    And he said” I’m glad you thought it was a date too”.

    How sweet right?

    Ok -I know that I”m going on and on – but its nice for a change, and if I cant share it with you girls who can I share it with?

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:23pm

  600. 600: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    That is so sweet… you leaned back and he leaned forward…

    I know I don’t like texting either… for that reason, no body language or voice ques…

    but sweet…


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 8:30pm

  601. 601: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m the only one up… I need sleep… ugg so much to do….

    Ok I was feeling weird about “M” trip… no I know why…. he said he still reads his ex’s blog from time to time… he grew a beard to travel to hot hot climate… and we had a huge blow up on Sat… soo… it’s my NV… trying to protect me… by thinking something might be wrong… when I have no evidence there is… just my mind.. messing with me…

    I’m so thankful for my NV… that try to protect me… and I’m glad that I assumed trust… and that feels good!


    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 9:50pm

  602. 602: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Anita, I’ve deleted your last name for your privacy – and please get the ebook NOW – it will help you SO much! And then go for the Complete Collection, immerse yourself – and YES – you CAN turn this around. I hope everyone knows here that I hardly ever try to push the book or a program on anyone – but, to me for you, Anita – just the $20 book could change everything. It ALL starts within YOU. Love, Rori

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:11pm

  603. 603: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Danielle – Welcome – and this is perhaps a quick job for a hypnotherapist. Virginia Clark hardly does this kind of work anymore, but she might help you as a favor – http://www.itsnevertoolatetomarry.com. Matthew Walters can help, too – http://www.creatingloveonpurpose.com. Fear is a weird thing. For now – look at it this way – you’re focusing on YOU in this situation. Instead – take yourself out dancing and focus on everyone ELSE! Love, Rori

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:13pm

  604. 604: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    So I had my evening with D last night.

    I’m not going to say it was very romantic

    When I arrived after giving me a hug and kiss, the first thing he did was make me hot chocolate. Now, when we were dating, him making me hot chocolate was code for “I love you”. When he’d done something silly, or was feeling particularly close to me, he’d make me hot chocolate. He had to do it 10 or 11 times before I realized this was what was going on. And it’s really delicious – he puts a lot of effort into it, makes it with whipped cream etc.

    We talked a little about the relationship, but since neither of us have much stamina for relationship talk, I let the conversation be when it seemed we had come to the most positive note of it. He was reserved and had some walls up, but I was determined not to react to that, but to let him deal in his way. He expressed concern about whether I’d eaten, and this felt sweet. He took me out late at night to get food, and bought me coffee. When we got home, he seemed a little withdrawn again, so when I felt like it, I took myself off to bed.

    It wasn’t long after and he came through, wrapped me in his arms, kissed me, and I drifted off into a safe and contented sleep.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:22pm

  605. 605: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    FW – 429 – Thank you.

    Zara – 455 – “ I would let the masculine soul guide me to what looks sexy on my feminine body and I would wear just that.” This has been bouncing around in my head yesterday – am quite keen to try it. Thank you!!!!!

    Erika Awakening -468 – This is very interesting – not to be focused on men and dating while making a place within myself for love to grow – that’s going to require a new kind of balance for me. Before I met BM I was single for 10years for many reasons. I eventually got to the point where I was beginning to accept that maybe I’m just not one of those people who do relationships. And then I met BM. I don’t think the two are connected and I don’t want to encourage false hope in anyone. Now I just don’t want to be embroiled anymore and I don’t even know if that’s possible right now.

    Elsie – 476 – Oh gosh I’m not good with addictions – never done drugs or anything like that but staying away from what’s not good for me –ugh long and hard battle. Okay so I’ll just call it caveman impulse whenever it pitches up, just to lighten it a bit : ) Mind over body then – thanks Elsie.

    Sunday, 14 July 2013 @ 10:25pm

  606. 606: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    ElSie that text looks like something I have seen in a program called Text Your Ex back

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:03am

  607. 607: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I dunno Elsie. I get “playing mind games” vibe from the last two interactions. Seems to me he is into playing little boy games.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:10am

  608. 608: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – my first thought in response to that text was, “IT’S A TRAP! Don’t fall for it!”
    Even if he isn’t doing it consciously, it does seem very much along the lines of what FW says – Text Your Ex Back is all about exploiting our psychological triggers to generate interest.
    If I had gotten a text like that, I imagine I would have believed him when he said it was nothing and left it at that and gone about my business. Dealt with any other thoughts and feelings that came up at a “focus on me” level.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:20am

  609. 609: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    My alarm is going to go off in 10 minutes and I have been up practically all night. I slept for a short while, and woke up to
    yucky feelings.
    I noticed my mind spinning, I practiced sinking back into the feelings again and again
    sinking into what felt like “guilt” and surrendering to feelings of anxiety, showered myself and my feelings with love.
    About an hour ago, I noticed my mind kept going to C so I started a list of everyone I could think of and started a “Thank you” prayer for every single person and every single object I could think of :)
    I feel wired still…and more clear.
    I can see more possibilities.
    I feel grateful for more clarity around what I need.
    I feel a need to contribute to something bigger than me, even if it is just my household. Even though my dad forgave my loan, I want to pay rent as a transaction separate from any gifts my parents want to give me.

    I feel a need to talk with both of my parents about my plans – I don’t feel like running away to OR right away anymore. Staying here until March feels right.
    I feel conflicted – I want to move to OR, and I would also LOVE to find a husband and settle down on some land here in TX with some goats and horses and cats :)

    I feel a neeeed for a man, a pure, unashamed, unabashed need for a husband. Not the neeeeedy kind of need, I’m laughing as I type this but it feels like a practical need, it doesn’t feel like it’s coming from a wounded place but a solid place.

    I feel a need for my ‘own’ space. So, I feel scared to talk to my mom about this and I feel a little resistant to the work I know it will take, *and*, I want to talk to my mom about making this room “mine” as much as possible – putting her stuff in storage for a while, painting the walls, maybe getting a real bed.

    I feel hesitant, a little contracted, concerned about taking up “too much space”. I feel sensitive to my mom’s needs. She is a hoarder and it feels…a little forceful to even want, much less suggest she move things around or get rid of anything because it causes her so much anguish…and…I would feel better having a haven of peace, free of clutter.

    I have actually considered doing some EFT proxy tapping on the fears and errors in thinking driving her hoarding. It would feel best to me if it were her suggestion, to make the room “mine”. I’m kind of giggling thinking of Rori talking about making a space for a man in our lives – I’m thinking…hmm…how about I start making space for ME? That’s a good place to start…!

    I also had the idea to ask about having lunch with some of the other women who work in another office. It would feel like a relief to have more female company, to get out of the garage environment, and probably also be good networking. It can’t be good for anyone if I’m totally dependent on dominoes with C for my worktime downtime (thank you C for taking care of yourself and teaching me to care for me!!).

    I neeed to dance. Need need need to dance and socialize. So, I need to contemplate what it would take for me to be able to get out and have a late night weekend night that would feel good and positive and beneficial. How can I take care of myself so I end up feeling more alive rather than depleted?


    What do y’all think?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:44am

  610. 610: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I am feeling so utterly good and peaceful today. Even though I didn’t get a lot of sleep, enjoying the contact with D last night, I have never felt more content.

    It’s as if the doubts and little voices are still there, but their voices are so soft I can’t hear them. D was saying a whole lot of things last night, and all I could think was being a strong, soft feminine presence, just listening and holding the space. I didn’t *react* to the way he was, I just let him be and deal with it and process it; in fact I did not even try to make logical sense of his words, except the ones that were specifically directed at me.

    This felt good. It felt feminine. It felt like “not doing”, which I suppose is the theme of this blog.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:36am

  611. 611: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose

    Your party sounds AMAZING.

    I am so glad you went :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:37am

  612. 612: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elise – I feel my heart open to you. I am watching the rollercoaster you’re on and feeling every part of the journey like I’m sitting right next to you. I’ve been there, and I know how it goes. I wish I could say something that would help you understand, or feel better, but there is nothing. Just know that over time the highs and the lows even out. I’m still on my own rollercoaster, but the dips are few and far between. Feels like it will never end, though.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 4:18am

  613. 613: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – I just realised I’ve been spelling your name wrong this entire time!!! so sorry!!!!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 4:21am

  614. 614: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Rori for the newsletter you sent yesterday/today/who knows with these time zone differences.

    This is me where I am these days:
    “…and the more power we give to our image of a man, the less power we give ourselves to feel, organically, what feels right for us…” – that’s what I’ve been doing

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:08am

  615. 615: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    FW 536: When trying to make sense of the things my ex said, the first thing pretty much every single guy (my guy friends and boyfriends of my friends) said in response was “he’s cheated/met someone else/thinking about cheating”. Every single time.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:45am

  616. 616: zulema2No Gravatar says:

    So i have been with my hubby for 4 yrs i do this all the time. He has a mood problem, he is in a bad mood and we all feel it, he doesn’t talk but his air around him is just heavy. So of course i start asking how do you feel, did i do something wrong? Plz babe tells me how I can change, then before I know it I am always apologizing for stuff he does. Example, he says something rude that hurts my feelings i confront him about what he said at that moment and before i know it he is reminding me of all the terrible things i have done to him the last 4 yrs how I’m terrible and how in comparison to my 4 yrs of hurting him this one comment is nothing and i should be able to brush things off. Before i know it I’m apologizing, I’m saying sorry your right I’m wrong. He hugs me then his mood is perfect and i always walk away feeling sad, empty and depressed and this is our relationship circle and i want to break it. I’m tired and i want to be right for once, i want him to apologize for once i want him to admit he is wrong for once. Plz i need serious help, I’m willing to do whatever i need to make him realize he hurts me and his ignoring me and blaming me is hurtful. Thank You.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:06am

  617. 617: DanielleNo Gravatar says:

    THANK YOU Rori ! :) You are amazing. I will look into it. I would love for this to be a “Quick fix” for a hypnotherapist. Thanks Again!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:06am

  618. 618: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “(but secretly I am dying to know)

    Elsie I’d say something like “I feel curious now.”

    Men who have dated around know this about women. PUA know this about women also. It is a psychological trigger that can be used to get a woman to chase a man. A woman who is not aware of herself, her patterns, the games played in the dating games and a woman who mostly operates unconsciously.

    It might also be unconscious test on his part. Testing the level of interest or maybe an ego stroke. Who knows? The question to ask is who am I being in this interaction?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:33am

  619. 619: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    AHHHHHH!!!!! IM SO PROUD OF ME!!!!!!

    So, I get to work. To recap, the last time I really spoke with GS was Thursday afternoon of last week. On Friday, I stayed away from him. No contact on Sat. or Sunday – AND I didnt check my gmail once to see if he was on. First time ever not doing that. So proud of me.

    So I get to work and I have a LOT to do. Within 10 minutes of me getting there…..I dont get a phone call….oh no. I get him standing in my cubicle…..smiling asking how my weekend was. Huh. Thats interesting. So, I said, oh, I have so much stuff to do with work today, and trying to get this stuff in to the supervisor, etc. Then he asked how my weekend was again. I said with a coy smile, it was fine. No more for him. He asked abut my daughter, and then I got lured in a bit…..so I backslid, but only for maybe 7 or 8 minutes, and hten I said – ok, well, I really have to get this stuff going so I better go get some caffiene to get going….and basically stood up and so he would have to leave my cubicle.

    First. Time. Ever. I did that. First time ever.

    I wasnt rude. I wasnt snarcky. So sweet, and smiling, but realizing that I do NOT want to row ANY boat for ANY man.

    It felt GREAT that he came over to me, but of course, that was FOR HIM, remember? NOT for me. Its because HE misses what HE needs. He isnt interested in what *I* need. If he was, then he would have contacted me over the weekend, or at some point texted to see how I was.

    This felt good girls. REALLY REALLY good.

    I feel strong. Empowered.

    For now. (Who knows how I’ll feel an hour from now, but for now I’ll take it.)

    I do miss him, and want him, but I was listening to that old Police song “Magic” …. “Everything she does is magic….” Yah, I want that. I want someone who thinks that. I want someone who absolutely doesnt want to live without me, not someone who is using me to feel like they are just connected to someone …. anyone….. I”m worth more than that.

    Man, he is SO HOT. SOOOOOO HOT. But I want more than that – I want someone who is there for me. Someone who craves me. Someone who wants to be there for me, because *I* need it, not because he is only getting something out of it. I already self sacrificed in my marriage for a decade. I am ready as my friend said – for someone to help me pick up my pieces, instead of me always helping someone else pick up theirs.

    Good morning today…..its a good morning. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:00am

  620. 620: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    Ok to FW and BeLoved – I dont know about text your ex back. But when he wrote that “never mind” bit….I DIDNT respond at all. I wasnt baited in. I”m not sure if that was clear or not. I could tell he wanted me to be interested and act like “oh no tell me…..” and I didnt fall for it AT ALL……I honestly think he was just trying to be cute, but I could be wrong, so I’m definitely listening to you guys. I will tell you this….CollegeCD is NOT a player. LOL. Whatever the opposite of that is – thats him. The man has no game. LOL – one of the reasons I like him. LOL.

    @FW – tell me more about this – I”m interested PUA (pick up artist, right?)

    Ok – at the end of the day, PLEASE KNOW, I did NOT fall for it. When he texted, “I have a question for you….and then never mind forget it” I NEVER responded to that. I didnt like it – or I felt like he just decided not to ask his question. Whatever. I”m not interested in dragging somethign out of someone.

    But….that said, I am VERY interested in what you two have to say about text your ex back and pick up artist. Please tell me how you think he was doing that here….seriousy I’m totally interested.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:06am

  621. 621: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Someone was hurt before you, wronged before you, hungry before you, frightened before you, beaten before you, humiliated before you, raped before y… yet, someone survived… You can do anything you choose to do.

    — Maya Angelou

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:20am

  622. 622: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie I do believe you handled it well. My point is to raise your awareness so you don’t go further down the relationship road ahead of him.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:25am

  623. 623: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Re Text Your Ex Back, it is Michael Fiore’s work. He is all over the Internet and I’d suggest you look it up.

    In the meantime I will see if I can find something that I had saved that looks similar.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:35am

  624. 624: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    FW – thank you – very sweet of you! Oh, I wont be going ahead of anyone this time. I am gently strolling behind men. If they want to be with me, they are going to have to walk slow, hold my hand and guide me. I am doing NO leading. I will not be baited into anything. I’m not rowing ANY boat. My arms are very tired, and I need rest. Someone needs to help pick up my pieces, or at least leave me alone so I can pick up my own. I am now out of the business of helping others to pick up their pieces. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:51am

  625. 625: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    CollegeCD just sounds kind of immature, frankly.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:56am

  626. 626: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    LOL– had the exact same thought….it’s a trap!!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:03am

  627. 627: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranim. I love you. I think your voice is great on here. I’m not sure what is going on with you, but the last several posts to me and others have been very negative.

    I can answer your posts. First off, I am a huge flirt. I have never ever had a problem with a man thinking that I am sexy or that issue. I dont EVER give off a friend vibe. LOL.

    Next, CollegeCD does not have any “game” but he is anything but immature. He is probably one of the most stable mature men I know. He stayed with his children when his wife flaked off and literally abandoned them. He has had the same fantastic job for 20 years. He worked on his marriage for a decade. If you looked up mature and stable in the dictionary – you would find a picture of him.

    LOL. Anyway – just letting you know that I”m not sure if you are projecting, etc. and I do love your voice on here, but I have noticed it not just with me, but with others. Just something to think about for you – I’m not sure if that will resonate with you or not, or if im off base, but it seems like you always take a negative position lately to whatever anyone says……

    Again, I love your voice, and you have helped me immensely so I dont mean to trigger you or make you defensive. I could be totally off base. LOL

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:19am

  628. 628: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Zara – thank you for the Dr. Pat Allen stuff!
    Some bells just went off, ding ding ding!
    Now I get what the power struggle is – he wants his feelings cherished, *I* want *MY* feelings cherished, neither one of us is getting anywhere.
    Actually, “he” wants to be BOTH cherished AND respected and….
    I give up.
    Sweeet sigh of relief.
    Seriously, no good man is going to act like he is acting toward me knowing I’m standing right there feeling anxious and wanting to connect. I understand that I might have been disrespectful and hurt his feelings – AND – if this is how he acts after one comment…
    Oh LAWD please let this be the day I learn..
    let it GO!!
    Do *I* like this? Is this working for *me*?
    How do *I* feel?

    Better now. Relieved.
    Please please please let this be the day I learn to never ever ever never ever EVER ever go down that road again.
    Never ever.
    ever ever.
    not ever.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:19am

  629. 629: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Jus’ sayin’.
    In case I forget.
    Let this be the day I walk down a different road.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:21am

  630. 630: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie I actually read WildG’s immature comment as being a bit protective of CollegeCD and not wanting to focus your mind on any negative towards him. It suggested to me that he is just trying to find his way around unfamiliar territory.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:31am

  631. 631: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved – just dont beat yourself up if you go down that road again. Remember sometimes its two steps forward and one back.

    I wonder where prplprsn is?

    @FW – Oh – maybe that is what it was. Wow, if thats the case, I guess I jumped on it? LOL. You know – he hasnt navigated the dating waters in a while – I know he is on match.com but only in the past few months. His divorce was final about a year and a half ago – and he is a wonderful father, so that takes up a lot of his time. Maybe you are right – he is immature – in the sense that he has no “game” LOL.

    Wow – if thats the case, then I guess I totally jumped the gun and need to think about why I got so defensive.

    Ugh. I guess I”m just defensive lately. Maybe? Sorry about that. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:36am

  632. 632: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Ugh. Now I feel confused. I wonder if it’s a mistake not to apologize.
    I feel sad, distressed, confused, angry, pissed off, helpless, fed up…
    It hurts not to feel friendly and open
    I also don’t want to reward this f*cking behavior over one stupid thing I might have said – a week of silent treatment?

    I just don’t know what to do besides go in the bathroom and have another good cry.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:44am

  633. 633: ElsieNo Gravatar says:


    Seriously, no good man is going to act like he is acting toward me knowing I’m standing right there feeling anxious and wanting to connect. I understand that I might have been disrespectful and hurt his feelings – AND – if this is how he acts after one comment…

    You have answered your own question sweetie.

    Go to the bathroom and have a cry. But remember, there are men out there that will be like that Police song and thing “everything you do is magic.” You want a guy like that – to be there for YOU, not just the reverse of that.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:47am

  634. 634: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved: You made my heart swell with your words to me this weekend. I am so, so, sooooo happy my words and story were able to bring something into your life. Thank you so much for your kind words!

    Elsie: You sound amazing…absolutely amazing! My first thought when I saw the text exchange was “He’s flirting. I would say something ‘Whew! Glad I could help! I was worried for a second that I might have to make up an answer! :-) ” or something like that.

    But…his style of flirt is the same way J and I flirt with each other.

    “Guess what?”


    “Oh…never mind…it’s nothing…”

    “LOL Seriously?!? What?”

    “I love you”

    Or something like that. Yes, it’s “baiting” but if both parties know it’s baiting and both parties enjoy baiting each other…it can be fun! :-)

    Hope everyone had a fantastic weekend! I sure did. J and I took my kids to San Antonio and we had a blast! LOVE it there!

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:48am

  635. 635: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – Get this. He called me by the initial of my first name. NO ONE has ever done that. I just gasped when I read that on the text. It totally reminded me of you and J LOL….how funny is that?

    He also calls me by a nickname that he knows that my mother used to call me when I was little. Like I said, its nice that I know him from way back when and we have some history together. And yes, I think it was him flirting….

    His exact line was (when I didnt take the bait and text back…)….”uh-hem. That was meant as a flirt – op” Meaning flirt opportunity. And then I laughed and said – I missed that, I thought you were going to ask a question and then just changed your mind. He texted back “OMG we do way better in person!!! LOL” Which actually made actually Laugh out loud. LOL

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:58am

  636. 636: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved: Take a deep breath. You know what you deserve. All that you deserve is coming for you. When it does, don’t be blocking it with how someone else is treating you….

    Never, ever, ever, ever ever going down that road again. Never. EVER. Today is the day that you BELIEVE in yourself and in what you will have in your life. Today is the day you allow what feels good and happy into your life and today is the day you block out people who aren’t serving you.

    Have you by any chance seen Kahanu Yoga & Meditation Spa on facebook? I posted a little lesson on there a few days ago about breathing in and out and about taking on too much emotion in a relationship. I think you might like it. :-) It was from one of my yoga/meditation lessons.

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:59am

  637. 637: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – by the way – did you see that I shut down GS when he came over? Interesting that he didnt CALL like he did before. See? Now he misses me and craves seeing me.

    I bet you that you are 100% right. If I pull back, and focus my life elsewhere, and let him wonder what I’m doing on nights and weekends, I bet all of a sudden he will want back in.

    But this time, he wont get back in that easily – if at all. I will NOT stop circular dating until I get from him what I need. At this point, he doesnt get to just come over in the middle of the night for movies anymore. Nope, I want way more than that.

    And by the time he is ready to give it to me, I may have just found someone else.

    From Grasshopper to the Master….thank you Mercedes. Seriously. Thank you.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:01am

  638. 638: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes you wrote: You know what you deserve. All that you deserve is coming for you. When it does, don’t be blocking it with how someone else is treating you….

    Truer words were never spoken. Well, except for when you wrote… taking on too much emotion in a relationship – Wow, I could be the President of that club. LOL. I’m off to read that now.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:02am

  639. 639: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: :-) You are amazing! Yes…I saw that and I like it. Not in a game playing kind of way, in a “this is not enough for me kind of way”.

    I remember feeling like J was getting everything he wanted from me and I wasn’t getting anything from him. It was a bad time in our lives. I swear he absotlutely LOVED knowing he “had me” right where he wanted me and loved knowing I wasn’t going anywhere and loved knowing he didn’t have to do anything to keep me in that spot. I remember how much it hurt. I also remember the day he found out that all his “knowing” what he had and what I would do was false. I will never forget the look on his face when I stood up for ME for the first time. I never want to have to see that look again and I never want to have to feel the way I felt during that awful time.

    What I have wanted more than anything for you is a man who cherishes what he has. A man who knows how incredible you are and who doesn’t just take for granted that no matter what he does, as long as he says some sweet words about the future, you will always be there. J knows that every woman on the planet deserves more than he was giving me during the rough times. One day GS will know it too. And at that point, the moment they feel absolute respect for a woman who says “you are crazy if you think what you’re offering is enough for me”…in that very moment…I believe they begin a journey of positive change that lasts a lifetime.

    Of course all of that is projection from me and my own story, but it is what I believe. :-)

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:08am

  640. 640: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Some of you already know but I want to post it here as well…

    Anyone who goes to Kahanu on FB…there’s a chance (I have no idea how big that chance is because I can’t remember how I set it all up) that you will know who I am in real life. I’m okay with that but I would appreciate the respect of keeping this part of my life (my postings on this blog) confidential. Most of the people I care about could come out here and I wouldn’t think anything of it. My kids though…they love J….and his kids love me…and I don’t think any of them need to find out about the times when things weren’t so good. I don’t think his daughters need to know about how much their dad hurt me and I don’t want my sons knowing that J could do something like that (or that it could take me so long to get up the courage to do something about it). From a parent perspective, there are certain things we don’t want to share…that time is at the top of the list.

    Thank you in advance for not publicly connecting the two.

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:15am

  641. 641: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – I love your “story”. :) I really do. But I need to remind myself (loudly) that your story may not be my story. I may have a different story (which is that I end up with a guy that I had a crush on in College….LOL.) Who knows.

    The point is that I think that GS felt it today. Just a little. I dont know – maybe he doesnt really NEED a realtionship. But he has also never had one like the one he has had with me. I think he felt a lot like J – in the sense that he knew he didnt have to do anything to keep me, that I would just sort of always be there, and that he “had me” and that was that.

    I think he feels a little different today.

    We’ll see what happens after I do this for a month. You know, frankly, I may just get so used to doing it that I dont want him back.

    its really hard when I start thinking of the lovely romantic heart-bursting loving times we have had together. Thatmakes it really really hard I really love him to my soul. But maybe he was just supposed to be in my life for this time just to offer his hand to help me out of the pit. Maybe that was his only role.

    I will never disparage him. I believe that if he had more to give he would give it to me. So, we’ll see if he has that or not.

    In the meantime, I do not want to be unfair to CollegeCD – I am going to truly try to give him a fair shot. To do that, I can not spend 2 hours chatting with GS at work. I just cant. For my own sanity too.

    Honestly, the thing I’m most proud of is that I did not check to see if he was on gmail ONE time this whole weekend – and wow, that was hard. I do that just because I feel a connection when I see he is on. Its insane and rediculous and I decided that had to stop. :)

    Mercedes. SEriously – you are the best thing ever for me. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:17am

  642. 642: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “@Wildgeranim. I love you. I think your voice is great on here. I’m not sure what is going on with you, but the last several posts to me and others have been very negative.”

    Oh, I feel curious. Which posts? I *have* been posting in a rushed state,I’ve been too busy the last 2 days to really follow on here as much as I’d like.

    Re: the friend vibe thing- was not referring to your looks or even not being sexy. Something more subtle than that. More along the lines of being too friendly or too available. If you want to be “craved” you might look at ways to raise your degree of difficulty or maintain some mystery/ keep men off balance and wondering where they stand with you.

    Yes, I guess maturity is very subjective. I am reminded of the stages of development for men (from Keys to the Kingdom- Alison Armstrong). I’ve developed a snobbery around texting since I met CW. He is the first ” king” I’ve ever dated and its been an eye opener. He detests texting, even though- early on- he indulged me with lots of it (and this was mostly because we live 600 miles apart) but now he refuses to use it for anything other than extremely basic stuff. I’m talking more about emotional maturity, as opposed to situational maturity.


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:18am

  643. 643: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    So, the morning after the party (while I was still there with the folks who’d stayed over) I phoned WM and asked him if he knew I’d gone out, and he said no!!
    Then he realised where I’d gone – to the party we were both invited to, and he hung the phone up on me.

    I thought, “oh no, he’s going to be even worse and I’ll get more silent treatment”.

    I got the opposite. I have had considerate attention (he cooked us a meal last night) and affection (putting his arms around me) and complements about a top I was wearing!!!!
    And it has continued into today. I haven’t got any money so he took us food shopping. And just now I found him cleaning out the bin (that’s “garbage can” to you Elsie).

    I feel baffled. simply staying warm and open …..

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  644. 644: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    thank you so much ladies (all lowercase because I’m feeling small and fragile and bedraggled right now, lol).

    I did several rounds of EFT in the bathroom and it was all about, “I don’t understand why he’s doing this…I don’t understand why…I don’t understand why…” and “please love me again, please love me again” which reminded me of being curled up on the bed, 7mos pregnant in the fetal position, bawling my eyes out after finding out my son’s father was cheating on me…
    which reminded me of further back…no specific memories, just a general muck of childhood stuff.
    Walking on eggshells, alcoholic father, never knowing what I was in trouble for or what would set him off.
    I don’t know if he’s a good guy/bad guy/wtf
    I know he’s in pain
    I see how my mind keeps trying to reach a conclusion, an understanding, a something that makes it all make sense
    My mind wants to land on “bad guy/good guy”

    and it does, for a minute, then it feels like it all falls apart.

    This felt way better than being 16 and pregnant and being cheated on..I have an adult’s awareness, had my hand on my heart, holding my little one inside…it was all, “I don’t understand why he’s being so mean and I’m ok. I’m ok. I don’t understand and I’m ok anyway.”

    It felt kind of nice, that an imaginary D (guy I work with) popped up and started lecturing an imaginary C while I was tapping. He was saying, “Wow, that’s a WOMAN right there, crying and hurting so much. A WOMAN, do you get that? A woman who loves you and is feeling vulnerable and sensitive and scared. She has FEELINGS…You must feel like some kind of big man.”
    *tiny giggle*
    It feels good to know that at least there is a man in my imagination looking out :)
    I also gave my little girl an imaginary C who DID apologize and hug and hold her.
    Maybe not the best idea in hindsight…it’s what came up though so I went with it.


    Mercedes if you wouldn’t mind sending me an email reminder, I’ll check out the spa’s FB page tonight.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  645. 645: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – you are very brave to truly be that vulnerable to post your facebook information etc. on here. I whole heartedly agree that no one should ever manipulate that or try to invade your privacy. Thank you for all the love and effort you spend here. I hope that your life and your work is respected by everyone. I know respect you immensely.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:19am

  646. 646: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    “@Wildgeranim. I think I was projecting. I just felt defensive. Please think nothing of it – I”m sorry. I might be too friendly or available. Its been my probelm in the past – giving and giving. I absolutely need to raise my degree of difficulty. So, thank you.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:21am

  647. 647: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @April Rose – Right. Because he can sense that you did something totally different and if he doesnt shape up then there will be more parites and more men that you are seeing. He sees that in that one night you raised your degree of difficulty, so go you!!! You did fantastic and he was probably gobsmacked by the whole thing. (You like that use of the word gobsmacked???? no one in the states uses it and I love it.)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:22am

  648. 648: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    BeLoved – you deserve a man who is not just in your imagination. You have been through a lot emotionally in your life. Be gentle with yourself. Forgive yourself for being fragile.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:24am

  649. 649: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie- it would appear that if you keep this up with GS, he is going to be hanging around for the crumbs you are giving him! Hah!
    Good good good :-)


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:26am

  650. 650: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:


    You are clearly doing just that! The trick is to keep doing it, albeit more subtly, when you get the relationship you want. That is the challenge –not trick–challenge!

    XO <3

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:28am

  651. 651: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wildgeranium. LOL. I dont know about all that. but maybe. I just think that if he said to me right now – Look, forget about last week, lets just be together. I would say “no.” Honestly, I would. I cant believe I’m writing that but its true. TRUE.

    I need him to be in a place where we can go out on dates, call me, text me, be there for me.

    Honestly? I hope he gets to that place soon, but there is another HUGE part of me that is like…..dont get there too fast because I think I may like this whole circular dating and especially finding out about CollegeCD.

    My problem with my ex husband is that I didnt want to give up on that STORY. The STORY of us getting together, being married, etc. When I finally gave up on that – I realized how horrible I had been treated and that it was so unhealthy.

    I think (maybe) that I am doing the same thing with GS.

    I love the “story.” (And I love his touch, his smell, his face….LOL)

    But I have to physically distance myself from that to get clarity on what I want otherwise its just my hormones and chemicals doing the thinking and not my true heart and wise head. :)

    Stupid oxytocin. It should be banned. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:30am

  652. 652: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Wild Geranium – yes, it isnt a trick. Its a challenge – exactly. To be the best person you can be for YOURSELF and then look around and see who can keep up with that and deserve it.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:31am

  653. 653: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Awwww…thank you Elsie! As I said, for most of the world I really don’t care so much. It’s the kids. Plus J is a very private person and is in a high position at his work so he probably has other people he wouldn’t want to see all this. (I’ve been very open about what he was like back then and he’s supported that openness every step of the way but I’m sure he wouldn’t want the people he works with to know about it….lol). Anyway, I don’t have a lot of worries about it and trust that everyone knows not to connect the two (after all…we’re all pretty much in the same boat there…lol) but I thought I would say it anyway. Just in case. I do want everyone to feel free to check it out though. I’ll be posting pictures as we move along…it might be interesting to some of you.

    BeLoved: I will send you an email today. For now, just trust me. You are getting what you deserve very, very soon. We just need to get the wrong people to turn their energy away from you so that you have room to accept the energy of the right people. :-) We need to get you to a place where you are sending out energy that attracts the right energy to you. We can do that. Easy enough.

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:31am

  654. 654: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    ((Elsie)) thank you :)
    My imagination has been my worst enemy for a long time, and it’s the companion that NEVER leaves me, so I’m feeling appreciation that I have a new imaginary ally, lol.
    Come to think of it, maybe I should sic D on old memories of my father. He never had a man around to call him out on mistreating a woman, he lived out what he grew up with.

    yummy yummy yum sigh
    feeling better.

    Oh, and thank you…yes, you’re right, I totally do. TOTALLy deserve a Real Live Man.
    My niece totally turned around her life – she divorced her abusive husband who kidnapped their daughter and married a super awesome guy whose whole family provides for them and took the baby in as their own.
    He proposed to her by taking my niece and the little one to see Santa, got down on his knees while the little one was on Santa’s lap, asked her if he could marry her mom, and gave them both rings.

    I’m also thinking of bloom-ing’s guy – just when she thought maybe he wasn’t going to be around long term, she finds out he’s been working on a 5-year plan for them together and including her dreams in it….

    I can have that for me.
    My body wants to contract even typing “I deserve that” so that would be something good to tap on.

    Strands of light and love within
    loving it all
    haha I survived!

    yes yes I’m alive I’m alive!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:34am

  655. 655: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Stupid oxytocin. It should be banned.”

    Seriously!!!! Most addictive drug in the world

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:38am

  656. 656: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    What to do about a captain who keeps getting in and out of the boat?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:41am

  657. 657: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Or is it that we are two passengers, who take turns having a dip while the boat drifts!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:42am

  658. 658: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose – I was going to compare my experience, but come to think of it, T was never a captain, I don’t even think he was in the boat, he is a master illusionist and I’m pretty sure it was a holographic projection in the boat that would flicker on and off.

    I did what Rori said…just outgirled him until now I get maybe a phone call about every 7-14 days.

    I feel SO happy, so much lighter, so GLAD to shed my skin and be rid of connecting with people where I give and give and give and give so much I don’t even notice it’s not being returned.

    It DID feel SO familiar.

    Now I’m going to walk out there, hold my head high, and do my very best Rock Star impression.
    **deep breathing**
    I am a queen.
    I am the treasure.
    I am the prize.
    I AM all the love I need.

    love and love and love to meeee :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:55am

  659. 659: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose: “Or is it that we are two passengers, who take turns having a dip while the boat drifts!” – I think at one time, J and I were both in the water at the same time and we didn’t have a boat with us. No boat, no oars, no land in sight. :-)

    “What to do about a captain who keeps getting in and out of the boat?” – For me, it ended up being circular dating. I know people say it wouldn’t work for everyone but look what it did for me, and what it’s doing for Elsie’s peace of mind, and what it has done for you in the last 24-48 hours. :-) It may not be for everyone but I personally believe that some form of cding (even just getting all dressed up and going out to a party without him) is good for everyone on the planet. I think many, many relationships fail because one or both parties are being taken for granted and there is no respect in the relationship. I also think cding puts a stop to anything like that. lol

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:58am

  660. 660: nanceenNo Gravatar says:

    anyone around today?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:14am

  661. 661: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes 658

    YES. That is exactly how I feel about circular dating.

    And it can take any form, but I think for me the end result is such a feeling of increased self-worth that no one can make me feel bad. (Almost no one 😉 LOL) That’s what I want for everyone. And CDing boosts you by giving you permission to go out into the world and find what makes you feel good.

    And it’s all about how you feel anyway. I love it as a concept.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:16am

  662. 662: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so good today b/c I got 2 nights of sleep..

    I’m noticing the direct correlation to lack of sleep and being needy or anxious… when I’m rested then I feel focused on what I need to do instead of, the relationship, him… NV’s… etc…

    Interesting to notice that when I sleep that is taking care of ME.. and that my mind is more focused on other things…

    Just saying outloud…


    @Elsie I know that had to feel GOOD and Yay for you! You GO! Girl!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:40am

  663. 663: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose frankly I don’t think it is just about going to the party without him. You obviously enjoyed yourself so it must have raised your vibration. You opened yourself to other men and that must have raised your vibration also.

    As far as I am concerned the calling could have easily have been experienced as game playing but it seems he felt more. I am wondering if you could possibly find a way, even in your imagination, to open yourself to other men more and also to have more fun? I am wondering if due to the fact that you live and work in the same place with him, you might somehow be shutting down yourself and only have it open for him. So he feels it as pressure.

    I dunno but that is what came to mind.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:41am

  664. 664: MelNo Gravatar says:

    April Rose,

    I felt glittery hearing about your party adventure! It felt like a vivid colorful scene from Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo and Juliette. :)

    Yay you!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:57am

  665. 665: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mel – that is EXACTLY what I pictured when April Rose was describing the party!!A midsummer night party for sure!!! :)

    @Mercedes – yes. I’m sorry I was so stubborn. Circular dating rocks. Its done me good even in the short time I’ve done it. People listen to Mercedes.

    I dont even think I”m in ANY boat now. I’m on the damn shore getting a tan. With my eyes closed. If a man wants me he is going to have to come over to me….pick me up (I love that guyscan do that now that I’ve lost all my weight) and take me to his boat and row.

    You know what he will get?

    He will get to brag that he got me in his boat.

    Thats the biggest prize of all. Lucky him (whoever he is.)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:02am

  666. 666: MelNo Gravatar says:


    Yay for you! I feel so thrilled to hear you are CD-ing!

    You posted a question earlier about how can he still care for you and claim to love you, but be willing to take the chance that you won’t be available for him down the road?

    I would take this as a kindness from him. That he DOES love you very much. But that perhaps he KNOWS he is just not able to give you all that such a dear siren as you DESERVES. That he’s willing to step aside because he feels it is better for YOU. Trust him. It’s probably coming from a place of concern and caring. He knows what he is willing and able to give. He probably also knows that that would not be enough for you.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:04am

  667. 667: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    nanceen: I’m here… :-) Off and on anyway. heehee! How are you?

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:05am

  668. 668: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Got in touch with a woman in another building and have a standing invitation to do lunch there – HOORAY! She’s great and why I never thought of this before I don’t know.
    Now…how to set myself up to be well-rested this weekend so I can go to the blues club to dance?
    I have contact lenses again, I’ve been off sugar and gluten…meditating every day, I’m rebounding from triggers more and more easily…
    I have a grandson on the wayyy!!!
    He’s becoming real to me!

    I’ve got Patti LaBelle going through my mind

    somehow the wires uncrossed
    the tables were turned
    never knew I had such a lesson to learn!

    I’m feeling good from my head to my shoes,
    Know where I’m going and I know what to do
    I’ve tidied up my point of view,
    I got a new attitude :)

    I’m in control, my worries are few
    Cuz I’ve got love like Iiiiiiiiii never knew
    ooh ooh ooh ooh oooh…
    I got a new attitude!!!!

    (haha I may crash and burn in an hour but for NOW I’m ok)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:17am

  669. 669: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    So so true Mel.

    Oh to always choose to make our story positive.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:19am

  670. 670: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mel – your version is what I know he has told me a million times. I choose to believe him. I know that he loves me in his way. Time will tell if that is enough for me. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:22am

  671. 671: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Just sitting in all this energy I’ve stirred up is feeling really interesting …

    Had another intense dream last night. I was in a car with my son(!!) – I don’t have children except my cats so this was interesting in and of itself. And a man was in another car and I felt really scared. I told my son to get in and lock the door. And then I realized the man in the other car had actually been watching over us, and he was about to leave considering his job done. Then my engine died and I woke up!! wow, what a shift from the man being a threat to being an angel …

    Anyway, I stayed in these FB threads in spite of feeling annoyed … and I felt myself melt into a space of being able to hold all perspectives at once without saying “no” to anyone. Seeing past versions of myself in some of the voices, even if I know they are pure ego consciousness, still being able to say “yes” I can understand that perspective.

    And I discovered what we in tapping would call a pretty big “reversal” going on … I’ve known about it for a while and it feels more clear now. I definitely don’t trust my own vulnerability for getting my basic needs met. The story I tell myself is that I was very vulnerable the first year I had my blog, and that the results were not making any money and trusting my ex who didn’t warrant the trust. And that since I became less vulnerable my business succeeded and although I’ve had some negative experiences with men I haven’t been devastated again. And there is a very deep part of me that says “F you” to vulnerability now. Simply refuses to be vulnerable, period. I don’t think trying to force past that part of myself is going to be very helpful. It’s there for a reason. I listened to other people’s advice for example when I had sex with my ex, and it was a mistake. I feel like vulnerability makes me too likely to do something I’ll regret later. And it doesn’t make sales. What makes sales most of the time is pretty hard core tough love. So phew there is a lot to tap on here …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:24am

  672. 672: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    yea that part of myself, although feeling sad, says “yeah sure Erika be vulnerable and get burned. You know what happens. People freak out when they hear feelings. Admit your vulnerability and they all see you as not being able to handle your life and won’t buy from you. They see it as weakness not strength, nobody wants to feel their own feelings, so acknowledging yours just triggers pain in them. And wow did you get burned with that man. Just goes to show you can’t be vulnerable with men, either.” That part of me is pretty angry and sad, and it’s not going to be overridden again …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:28am

  673. 673: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    and on that thread, I was vulnerable again … and one man got all condescending and framed it as I was having an “awakening” … and that’s the fear. Instead of seeing you as a seasoned coach, Erika, who gets amazing results for her clients because of her ability to tune into her own feelings … it’ll just become another excuse why they see themselves as “superior” and don’t have to question their own beliefs.

    This is a big reversal. It’s a big “hell no” inside me.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:30am

  674. 674: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, and add to that two relationships this past year that I allowed to get personal, with creepy guy and a woman I did some informal tapping with … both of them got the “wrong idea” about what was on offer, and I regret in both cases letting the relationship get personal. Also when I stayed in the space of vulnerability setting boundaries with creepy guy, all it did was encourage him. And the woman ended up cutting off our relationship when I wouldn’t meet her demands of what I give to her.

    So wow this is a huge reversal. There is a big part of me that now says, “all business, all the time, Erika, tough love and boundaries and no personal relationships, that’s the way your needs get met.”

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:33am

  675. 675: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Feels fun to catch up. I’ve been away on holiday and I feel excited to feel the strength radiating from you sirens in this post!

    Ooooh… I think I’ve made a discovery. I feel all explorer-like in a safari outfit, observing the “man-species.”

    I feeling curious about “saying sorry.” I don’t think that most men like to say it. Oh my, it feels almost as though they avoid it at great lengths.

    Even if they did something so obnoxious as to spill a glass of wine all over you at a wedding (this actually happened, though definitely accidentally). I felt all soaked and embarrassed and surprised and angry. But no sorry! Just silence. I say: “I feel wet.” And then the hot-tempered girl walks away.

    Here he comes, moments later, with a plate of food. My favorite things… here you are sweetie… I thought you might like these….

    So funny. Manly good men do not like to be made wrong. They like to make it up instead. Be the hero again. Expecting the sorry is making him wrong!

    Interesting how “sorry” means so much more to us women… but it’s action-less. Sometimes even meaningless. But why do we want to hear it so much?


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:34am

  676. 676: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, and a prior friendship of a woman who also doesn’t talk to me anymore, when I did not want to do tapping for free and I started asking for contribution to the lodging I had been subsidizing … It’s this belief that personal relationships just don’t stay balanced, give an inch and they take a mile and no matter how many times boundaries are expressed, they are not respected … holy moly, do I have a bunch of tapping to do here.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:36am

  677. 677: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – 672 – more opportunity to respond with vulnerability..”Reading/hearing this I feel my belly drop and feel like it’s full of crawling caterpillars. I don’t want to be seen as inferior. I feel best and most open when I’m seen as an equal. I feel scared and feel like shutting down. I don’t know what to do here, what do you think.?”

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:38am

  678. 678: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    I know I’ve talked about it already, but it really felt good to sink into D’s arms last night after all this time apart. I know I saw him on Wednesday night and we kissed, but last night I really got to sink in and be safe for the first time in so long, at last. For the first time in so long I got to fall asleep to the feeling of feeling safe and secure. I didn’t sleep much, but it was the best night’s sleep I’ve had in months.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:38am

  679. 679: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, Elsie, April Rose, Indigo – I feel smily reading about how well things are going for you. It’s like there’s magic in the world again. Thank you so much for sharing.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:38am

  680. 680: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And another “friendship” where I no longer wanted to trade tapping because I was no longer getting value from it, and all the passive aggressive stuff that happened after I set boundaries there. And then recently just when I thought the friendship might be resurrected as a pure friendship, she started seeking “free” business advice from me again yet refuses to buy the products where the advice is given. I expressed myself in feeling messages and then she disappeared. No wonder this “all business all the time” voice in my head is so loud.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:39am

  681. 681: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    ” I feel so good today b/c I got 2 nights of sleep..

    I’m noticing the direct correlation to lack of sleep and being needy or anxious… when I’m rested then I feel focused on what I need to do instead of, the relationship, him… NV’s… etc…

    Interesting to notice that when I sleep that is taking care of ME.. and that my mind is more focused on other things…

    Just saying outloud…”

    So true

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:40am

  682. 682: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo: 677. :-) I love that comment. I can feel J’s arms around me just reading that. Such a beautiful, peaceful feeling…

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:40am

  683. 683: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – 672 – more opportunity to respond with vulnerability..”Reading/hearing this I feel my belly drop and feel like it’s full of crawling caterpillars. I don’t want to be seen as inferior. I feel best and most open when I’m seen as an equal. I feel scared and feel like shutting down. I don’t know what to do here, what do you think.?”

    Thanks BeLoved. And then the very predictable response:

    “Oh, Erika, it’s not that we’re not seeing you as an equal. It’s just obvious from everything you wrote that you are in so much pain and have so much growing to do … and really it’s not anything you said, it’s just your ‘energy’ on the thread. We don’t want to remove you from the group but you need to do a better job of fitting in (read: don’t question any beliefs that we hold sacred even though they are ruining our lives),” etc. (meanwhile, spouting conspiracy theories and taking no responsibility for their financial situations)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:42am

  684. 684: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – I just tossed that out there carelessly and thoughtlessly, please disregard if you haven’t already :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  685. 685: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie – I love how you’ve gone from anxious to amazing.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:44am

  686. 686: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    And the unspoken subtext: “and for God’s sakes, Erika, don’t share any success stories about how your clients made more money by investing money with you – we’d rather keep believing that only ‘bad’ people make money or market themselves in FB groups, and that we are all victims of a financial system of bad guys.”

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:45am

  687. 687: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:



    <3 this


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:46am

  688. 688: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Actually, I liked it BeLoved, and I appreciated your input. It’s the part of me that says “all business all the time” that is saying, “yeah right, Erika, this is what they are going to say in response …” I was just kind of role playing with you like Rori does in the Love Scripts programs …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  689. 689: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – Pleasure and good feelings are something I value highly. I am discovering it feels best to cultivate intimacy where I am celebrated. Insisting on having a say where nobody really wants to hear what I have to say anyway feels like too much hard work, feels like validation-seeking to me. I always feel slimed and ick when I slip up and get caught in it.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:47am

  690. 690: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Rori does a great job of role playing clueless men in the programs … you may have already seen them … I enjoyed the role playing a lot

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:48am

  691. 691: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Mel: 674. I like your take on the apology. On the things a man will DO vs what he will say as an apology.

    I remember saying one time (about J when someone asked me if I could forgive him) that it was impossible to forgive someone who didn’t want to be forgiven….someone who never asked for that…someone who never once said “I’m sorry”.

    I repeated that story to him months/years later. He immediately said “I’m sorry. Will you forgive me?” And he meant it. And he had said it before. And I had already accepted his apology. And I had already forgiven him (which he knew). But he knew based on that story, at least at the time, an apology was important to me.

    I wonder why it was. I do know that regardless of timing (which came first, the apology or the actions), I forgave him and he was sorry.

    Hmmmm…I do like your take on this. It’s kind of fun to think about.

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:50am

  692. 692: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yea I hear you BeLoved … and I totally respect that’s right for you …

    For me, this is my whole life. My whole life purpose, questioning the beliefs that are creating the bad outcomes in people’s lives, including questioning my own beliefs that may be creating these situations …

    Right now the place that feels safest to me is “all business all the time” … I’d like to expand that a bit … which may mean getting out of my comfort zone in situations like this … and certainly needs to involve more tapping to change my beliefs about these situations …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:51am

  693. 693: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – hearing them say ‘you need to do a better job of fitting in’ gets alarm bells ringing in my ears – there’s an individual here and people are afraid

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:55am

  694. 694: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    @Veronica, yep it set off alarm bells for me too, and I stood up for myself about it on the thread. That if I was going to have to “fit in to the program” then I would prefer they remove me from the group because it would be out of integrity with my teaching. Mind you, I had not attacked anyone in the group. What set them off was me sharing about the client success stories with money.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:58am

  695. 695: BeLovedNo Gravatar says:

    I hear you Erika – if it’s your purpose it’s your purpose. If it’s working for you (and it sounds like it is in a lot of ways) no need to fix what isn’t broken.


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:59am

  696. 696: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Here he comes, moments later, with a plate of food. My favorite things… here you are sweetie… I thought you might like these….

    So funny. Manly good men do not like to be made wrong. They like to make it up instead. Be the hero again. Expecting the sorry is making him wrong!

    Interesting how “sorry” means so much more to us women… but it’s action-less. Sometimes even meaningless. But why do we want to hear it so much?


    Oh, this is a revelation….they like to make it up to us. Of course. I’m always looking for the “sorry” and probably not even seeing the making up. Duh.

    Yes–safari outfit & pith helmet on….

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:01pm

  697. 697: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Living my yoga today: Whatever I spend my time doing is what I am committed to in my life. Notice what you spend your time doing. That is what you are truly committed to. Are you happy with this commitment? Ask yourself, What needs changed and what merits celebration about how I spend my time each day?

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:08pm

  698. 698: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Veronica – Oh no….I’m not amazing yet. See…..just hearing about melting into someones arms from Indigo and Mercedes makes my heart jump and be nervous because I MISS that and CRAVE that …..

    I’m ok now, but just reading that triggers me….

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:16pm

  699. 699: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Bloggies – I feel better today…wow..had a lot of intense emotions yesterday…Now I’ve forgotten about it. Clarity is back.

    I feel Restless….I feel like planning an adventure soon.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:19pm

  700. 700: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Elsie: :-) You focus on the fact that you want that with the RIGHT man…the man who also craves that…from YOU…and you’ll be just fine.

    That heart jumping thing? Yeah…that’s good stuff. That is your heart guiding you to your true desires.

    What your heart doesn’t want is for your brain to decide who that person is. Your heart, I’m sure, would rather connect with another heart, all by itself, and then it will tell your brain later what it has done. Don’t let your brain (memories) get in the way of your heart (future)…

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:20pm

  701. 701: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes, WG,

    Funny, I only noticed it because it happened twice in a short amount of time. Two different circumstances, but the last time I was like hmmmmm…..

    “I didn’t mean to…” Silence.

    Of course you didn’t MEAN to…. but where’s my sorry? LOL… (making him wrong, even just in my thoughts!)

    Then later, he’s grilling me up a marshmallow on the fire. “Look Mel… I made it perfect just for you! Do you want some CHOCOLATE too? Oooh, I’ll melt it all together for you, won’t that be delicious!”

    Ha ha! I noticed that time! Sweet boy.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:21pm

  702. 702: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    Btw – I tried texting Out-of-the-blue Cd but the message can’t send…should I call him and let him know or just leave it alone.

    He handsome and affectionate…I could use some of that right now.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:22pm

  703. 703: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Mel: :-) That makes me smile! Yup…I think he was making up for it.

    Do you think that’s why some men send flowers to say “I’m sorry”? Sometimes they’ll even write it on the little card with the flowers? And why sometimes when a woman gets flowers at work a coworker will say “What’s the special occasion?” and if the woman says “Nothing”, the coworker will say “What did he do?”

    :-) Maybe it’s more well known that we thought for a man to say “I’m sorry” by giving and doing rather than talking….

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:24pm

  704. 704: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Mel 674

    I love what you’ve written here, it *is* so interesting and such an interesting opportunity for us to think of a different perspective. I remember Dominique writing this exact thing in one of her articles, that men won’t always say “I’m sorry” but we should be on the lookout for the apology in other ways.

    In our whole relationship, D has probably only made a point of apologizing with words a few times, but that’s what the hot chocolate became about. When I could feel he was ready to make it up to me, along he would come with the hot chocolate in all its steamy deliciousness and a gentle voice from him.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:26pm

  705. 705: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    zulema – First, please try the ebook to get down some relationship and communication basics that might help right away. Then – this seems to me a job for coaching. I have many great coaches to recommend, and everyone here will help you. Love, Rori

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  706. 706: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Veronica 678, this makes me feel smiley too :)

    I also feel as if there is happiness in the air.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  707. 707: WildgeraniumNo Gravatar says:

    “Look Mel… I made it perfect just for you!”

    Oh gawd…. That is so cute :-)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:27pm

  708. 708: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Mercedes 682

    It is so lovely. It feels like laying down a heavy burden and being enveloped in safety and finally being able to get some rest.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:29pm

  709. 709: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – I know I know….but when people talk about sinking into the arms of the man they love. You know….well…..ouch. I miss those arms (He worked out and wow…..those arms……) And then his smell and his hand on my face….and….

    Ok – I have to stop now.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:33pm

  710. 710: HeartNo Gravatar says:

    awwwr Indigo…..how Sweet!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:38pm

  711. 711: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Speaking about sorry – just saw this on another thread:-

    Ally says:

    I met this wonderful guy. He says all the right things and really loves me. I feel complete at last. However, there is one thing that is missing. He doesnt know how to comfort me when it’s his fault for making me upset. Yesterday, we were suppose to have a lil picnic in a park and he cancelled it at the last minute. He said he had a graduation party to go to at 5. I felt very sad that he never told me about the party. He never mentioned it at all when he made the picnic plan. We were texting when he told me that we cant go. Heres how the convo went:

    Me: Im sorry I feel very very sad
    Him: Y
    Me: I was just hoping we could go to the park today and spend the whole day together. I really wanted to be with you. Also, I wish i knew about the party before we made the picnic plan. I wish i could’ve spent most of the day with you.
    Him: Yeah im sorry
    Me: it kinda wouldve been nice if i got more than just a sorry, I want comfort

    And he never responded to that. He didn’t text me at all after that. what am i suppose to do now? I cried so much but then i went and hung out with my friends at a pool party she invited me to. But he didnt text me at all, so what do i do now?

    Rori Raye says:
    Ally, Welcome, and I don’t get this. How can a man “love” you and cancel on you at the last minute and not make an effort to make that “okay”? He can’t. He’s dating you. You’re Feeling Messages are great – now step back a little and watch what he does and don’t jump so fast to “love” and “exclusivity.” Love, Rori

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 12:54pm

  712. 712: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    : Michelle says:
    I was dating a co-worker for about 5 months who is about 10 years older than me, divorced with a child.

    Things started very casually as he said before things started with us he wasnt in the right frame for a relationship and has been single for a little bit. As time went on we were basically dating. He introduced me to his kid, we would see eachother a 2-3 times a week and stay over atleast once either a weeknight and/or weekend.

    One night while out he told me I should leave stuff like my toothbrush and underwear at his place and that I may have to help him pick out a new pair of glasses. The following weekend I went away for a bachlorette party and when I came back he ended things with me saying he cant be in a relationship right now and gave me a laundry list of reasons also saying that some of my friends are getting married and when I replied you know I dont want to get married right now he said ok so we date for a year or two then what….

    Work has become pretty awkward he avoids me when he can, I dont talk to him any other time than involving work. What do I do if I still want to date him or how do I get any type of real explanation?

    Rori Raye says:
    Michelle, Welcome – and you need to Circular Date NOW!!! There IS no explanation. Love, Rori

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:06pm

  713. 713: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    “There IS no explanation. ”

    Oh…I believe that. At least “there is no explanation good enough.”

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:11pm

  714. 714: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    ((((Elsie)))) It will get better. I know that for sure. Now close your eyes and enjoy your new tan. :-)

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:20pm

  715. 715: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes – So true. Sometimes the explanation is just…..”I cant.” It doesnt seem fair or reasonable. But you cant talk your way out of dumped my friends and I always say…..and its because you cant TALK someone into loving you. Ever. So true.

    It already has gotten a bit better for me.

    CollegeCd is a nice distraction while I’m getting a tan. :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:27pm

  716. 716: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo 708, this feels wonderful, thanks for sharing:

    “It is so lovely. It feels like laying down a heavy burden and being enveloped in safety and finally being able to get some rest.”

    I received such a gift just now, working with a client who wanted to resolve her karmic loops about men. So we just now tapped on a lot of fears of vulnerability, fear of regretting later being vulnerable, and getting stuck in karmic loops of conflict with men because of those deeper fears … thank you Universe for that gift of synchronicity.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:32pm

  717. 717: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    I need do nothing. That feels good. It feels good to lean back, it feels sexy too. Just sometimes it also feels so scary and then it makes me yet again to start thinking, over thinking really. And it makes me feel angry at myself, that I waste time for over thinking HIM. I don’t want to do that. It just feels difficult to find the balance between taking him as a lesson and still not being able to over function sometimes. It makes me feel like I’m going crazy, it feels unsettled. Where is the balance?

    I read your comments here brave girls and I feel like I miss something important, like I still do not get this tools on some level. Just cannot find the balance on some gloomy days.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:44pm

  718. 718: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Ignis. How was your birthday?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:52pm

  719. 719: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis: “Just sometimes it also feels so scary” – I know this feeling. I’m learning a balance of the tools where masculine and feminine energy come into play in my relationship. I have to have both. We are starting a business together and tonight we have an actual business meeting with work to do.

    I am practicing my balance during those times when I feel a pull to go full on masculine. I decided to try to save those times for when I’m working with outside vendors and contractors and using the balance with J. It’s kind of fun to practice it. I think tonight if I feel myself swaying to the masculine side too much I’ll just lean over and in complete and total masculine energy will initiate a very sexy feminine kiss. :-)

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 1:58pm

  720. 720: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    “The only way to get over somebody is to get under somebody.”

    My friend gave me this advice a few days ago, and I kinda laughed it off but now I’m wondering…maybe she’s right?

    What do you think? Is it good advice? (Btw, I’m serious!)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:05pm

  721. 721: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @Femininewoman it went well, thank you for asking, it was really happy evening, and since there were a lot of friends of both me and him, I felt really proud I managed to stop all the talks about him right at the beginning ( none of the friends know he pulled away and we do not talk to each other anymore, so it felt difficult to stop them without explaining but I managed) I didn’t write to him either :-) I saw him yesterday, he drove by when I was out jogging, and it felt good seeing him, but no after thoughts, today though feels difficult to stop thinking what I will say to him next time we run into each other. Do not know when I start over functioning and if I am just making excuses for myself to think about him and when I just use him for healing.

    @Mercedes – frelst good to hear it is not only me that feels that, guess I’m not going crazy after all hihi I cannot imagine how it must feel to find a balance between that energies it two so completely different situations, to have such a control over yourself to actually manage to differ them.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:11pm

  722. 722: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    @Ignis, in a way, this is the same balance I’m trying to find even in business. What I was describing above about all the inner conflicts about boundaries and being taken seriously without having to put up some kind of armor to do it … and I’ve been very successful running a fairly “feminine energy” business, meaning that I decided the “masculine energy sales calls hard driving” business models didn’t feel right to me at all … I think all of us are refining the balance in our lives all the time … even the people teaching … I feel impatient with how I’m progressing sometimes, and that’s part of the process too …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:21pm

  723. 723: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @ Erika Awakening
    Oh I feel the same with being in feminine energy in business. I recently tried this approach with my male landlord and suddenly we do not have any problems anymore. He found a solution :-) but with my ex mister, the situation was and still is so extreme that my feelings are also quite extreme and that is why it feels so difficult. Everything is triggered at once and I usually manage to lean back and just feel it, but I do slip, like today and have to slap myself in my face not to run to him and start to fix this mess we have gotten ourselves into, it all feels so absurd, it feels like everyone is just a puppet in someone else’s show

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:33pm

  724. 724: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis: I’m not there yet. :-) It’s a process…but I am enjoying the process. YAY for THAT at least!!! haha!

    Much Love,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:36pm

  725. 725: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes oh your comment made me happy, that you enjoy it :-) It indeed is fun, the process, at least most of the time :-) big hug to you brave girl :-)

    I kind of feel for sharing my story from the start to now, think that would make for an interesting case study, but maybe that is just an excuse to over think things one more time haha I feel like laughing at myself for being so undecided what to do :-)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:45pm

  726. 726: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m feeling sick to my stomach
    I’m feeling like running away from “M”
    I’m having urges to break it off…

    All of this is due to the book Attachment…
    I confess I skipped to page 190… and read the part about how it doesn’t work to fulfilling relationship with anxious / avoidant..

    I’m sick b/c I have always attraced avoidants….. it makes sense that since I do have some secure attributes, why I’ve always tried to have a secure/ healthy relationship with people that just couldn’t do it… ( even my therapist said so)… I do have some anxious though and I do need lots of intimacy… but I do enjoy alone time…

    So, I’m confused right now… about “M” about me and why I always attract avoidants even with friends…

    I want to change that…

    “M” fits the pages on 190 and 191 picking arguments, not being able to sleep in the same bed, making excuses for distance, going on a weekend trip and then wanting to quickly get rid of me…

    When I lean back he comes forward… and is very affectionate…

    but the saddest part was where I read that it would always be that he wouldn’t want to do things I wanted to do and ( he is very clear about that…though he said different in the beginning) if I stay with an avoidant… I might as well get used to doing things on my own… or with friends… that sounds to me like settling for less than what I want/need and less than fulfilling…

    since I skipped over lots in the book, I don’t know if a person can overcome being avoidant… I don’t know whether to get the hell out now… while I can easily or wait and see if he can overcome the avoidant stuff…

    It is so strange to me… that he has consistantly been in relationships with avoidant women… I’m the first woman ever that has been emotionally available and healthy …. no wonder he was so wounded by those women… they were more avoidant than he was ( well according to him)

    geez this roller coaster ride is driving me nuts!

    Though there is a lot of truth to the fact that when a person is getting their needs met, in the correct intimacy setting that they would thrive…

    why do I continue to attract avoidants…

    I’m warm and loving and available… you’d think that would make an avoidant run… ugg!

    This is what I was talking about when I said I am secure until I notice things might be unhealthy and then I was to run/breakup…go away from them… I’m not sure if that is anxious or secure.. but I do know that I have to really work on not ending things when things feel unsecure, unhealthy….

    I’d really LOVE to have a man that is emotionally available for true intimacy… a fulfilling relationship with the man wanting to get closer instead of keep distance…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:54pm

  727. 727: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    That’s how my friend got over her ex. It worked really well for her because she’s now with someone who seems like a great guy, and they are planning on getting married! (The guy she “got under” right after the breakup is not the one she is currently involved with but I think it helped her to move on.)

    So do you think its good advice? I”m wondering because maybe it helps get you out of your head and the endless replaying of old memories (which I have been doing). Maybe It kinda short-circuits all of that??? I’m not saying necessarily that I want to jump in the sack with someone right now but maybe having a physical fling (physical but no actual sex) with someone might do me good right now. Without there being expectations or heaviness….But I’m not sure if it might make me feel worse ultimately.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 2:58pm

  728. 728: MercedesNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis: Big hug back! I gotta say, the process isn’t always fun but I do enjoy it most of the time. :-)

    ((((Lisa)))) follow your heart honey. Most of us can make just about any book fit a situation. Only you know what is in your heart. If you are actually learning from the book then you will also learn how to make changes. If you’re molding the book to fit your life, then you are more inclined to straight up panic. I want you to be loved. Do you feel loved? All the time? Do you believe you deserve more? Do you want more (even if it is with someone else)? Are you willing to go through the withdraws if you do move on? Where is your heart? Where is your gut? Do you have the courage to leave? Do you have the courage to stay and get this to a better place?

    Only you know what you can or want to do. We’re here to support no matter what. We all want the best for you…whoever that ends up being.

    Much, much, much love and peace sent to your heart,

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:01pm

  729. 729: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    does get under someone mean sex? I’m not sure…what under means but I do know the quickest way for me to get over someone is to say NEXT and move on…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:11pm

  730. 730: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    yes, that’s what it means. I blew it off initially as a funny saying but then I thought that there might be some merit to it as it may help to get me out of my head and into my body/senses…I’ve been dating but that hasn’t helped. Maybe that sexual chemistry woul d help though?, the touch, smells, sounds of it all…

    It’s the laast thing I’ve been wanting but maybe that’s the very reason I should consider it! 😉

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:19pm

  731. 731: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – Ok. Yes. Its true. Avoidants really dont change, because they dont really want to. They are avoiding it and they wont be the ones picking up that book to read it. That is true. That said – you can have a healthy relationship with an avoidant, you just have to realize that you will not always get what you need. You have to decide if that is ok.

    You attract avoidants because you have a need to nurture and to fix, and to help. Maybe there is a little piece of you that believes that you are not good enough for everything.

    Like I said – this was an amazing book for me to read – and I’m so glad that I did. Read the whole thing, and then take TIME to process it along with everything else you have learned.

    I seem to see that you jump very quickly into “end game” mode. Dont do that sweetie. :) Just give yourself time to live into the answers……

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:20pm

  732. 732: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Mercedes… <3 AWWW thanks! That feels good!

    I don't think I'm molding myself to fit the book…( but maybe I am) I think what happened is when I read that part, I got this zing in my gut.. OMG.. that's it… Not that I hadn't already come to that conclusion on my own that he had intimacy issues and was creating distance…But I tend to second guess myself and when I brought it to his attention he quickly said that wasn't so… it was meditation and spirituality conflicts… but I also am mature enough and intuitive enough to know excuses when I hear them… most especially when resolutions have been found and not followed through with and more excuses come in…

    I do have the courage to leave…(not going to lie and say it won't be hard) and really came close on Sat… I watched my mind though and my thoughts around it… I do have the courage to go through withdrawls… or grief, yes, I've done it over a dozen times before, had to leave for the exact same reason… I attract the same situation into my life every time… UGG wish I knew why!

    I'm not sure if I have the courage to stay… I'm feeling like running right now… since this is a broken record… for me… do I want to put my hand on a hot stove again and get burned or walk away…

    I've followed my heart before and it never worked out… that is confusing to me..

    I don't know that I feel loved all the time… I just realized on Sat. when talking to him, how much he loves me… that he has been putting himself through exhaustion and loss of income b/c of me… ( though I'd done that for him as well- he just doesn't recognize it)

    What I do know is that, I don't want to settle for what I've always settled for in the past… a distant partner that isn't interested in things I like to do, and is looking to create distance… I know that for sure!

    I realize he may love me very much and still isn't capable of more intimacy… more interaction together… as a avoidant is…

    So, I'd have to say from my experience, Love isn't enough in a relationship… it takes more…

    I want someone that I don't have to tell them … "you don't ever ask how I'm doing", "you are so quick to tell me you lost sleep and then have agitation towards me about it, as if its my fault…"
    He did ask me today via e-mail how did I sleep… but it feels forced now that I said that.

    I'd love to have someone in my life that genuinely wants to know how I am… genuinely wants to do things I like too! ( I do things they like) I don't want a one sided relationship..

    It's confusing, he noticed and said "that I have a beautiful singing voice" the other night.. that was nice…so he did have interest in that …

    It's all confusing…

    Thanks!!! Mercedes!

    For the love and help! and understanding…and for helping me by questioning me so that I could bring it all up to the surface…

    Much love <3


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 3:35pm

  733. 733: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – 726 – Is there something you are avoiding within yourself?


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 4:14pm

  734. 734: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Ignis – 727 – I don’t agree with that quote. I say go deeper inside instead.


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 4:15pm

  735. 735: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Not to butt in on a convo but your story sounds so much like my own with many of my men… and even somewhat with “M” now…

    I’d love to hear more… if you don’t mind sharing.. either on here or elsewhere…

    How did you come to terms with that, what did you say exactly to him… b/c my gut feeling is that there is something really juicy in it that I’m doing to contribute to the situation I’m in.. and have continued to be in… for decades…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:00pm

  736. 736: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Great question! I wish I had a quick correct answer…I’ll have to go deeper with that question.

    I’d say in my logical mind… what comes up is the pain I felt having a narcissistic father… that never ask how I am, didn’t care if I was sick, would go ahead and do what he wanted no matter how sick I was, he didn’t want to be inconvenienced by me, didn’t care to listen to me all he cared about was what he had to say, and a father that when my ex husband tried to kill me… and saw me with ( pardon the graphics here, turn you head if your squeamish) my hair filled with blood said to me and I quote : “What did you do to deserve this?” “What did you do to make him angry?”… I’m used to being invisible and I’m used to my needs/wants being ignored.. it doesn’t make me feel good to have it happen, but I’m used to it… I actually have felt much more secure and loved (more than ever) when “M” and I first stared dating for short while, b/c he paid attention to my needs/wants…but that quickly faded… he still is there for me… but I can see just from this post.. the Daddy issues abound here… BUT I don’t know how to resolve them?

    I did some work about 3-4 weeks ago on this topic with a friend that said to me… what do you get out of being with selfish/ self absorbed men… and I burst into sobs saying “I’m used to it, so I guess I get comfort, familiarity” then sobbing for an hour…

    That’s the best I can come up with now… unless anyone has insights I can’t see…

    Thanks so much for asking @Dominique..

    Love and appreciation…:-)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:13pm

  737. 737: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Today I just feel like slapping my ex (not my most recent one, the one I STILL own a house with). I just wish he’d hurry up and sort out the paperwork to take it over, it’s been FOUR YEARS! I can’t even force a sale of the place but I’m feeling super antsy about getting him out of my life finally. Ugh.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:15pm

  738. 738: ElsieNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa – Oh sweetie. You already know all the answers to your questions. Your last post was heart wrenching to read. I cant imagine what you have lived through. Please just go get some real help from a therapist. Honestly, for yourself. You are attracted to this because it IS familiar. Please please please 1000 times please go get some help – real professional help. Please. You already know so much you just have to go a bit further to figure out how to get yourself to a really really good place………I’m so sorry for your past (hugs)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:17pm

  739. 739: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Ahh … I went for massage and let myself mostly surrender completely to it … fell into deep meditation, and when I came out my face looked different … like angelic innocence …

    A couple days ago I got a new package of massages as bodywork is a regular practice for me, yet with many bills to pay right now even I was feeling a little “guilty” about it. Did some tapping on guilt, got the package anyway, don’t want to be living in fear … and not long before the massage today someone sent me $700 which helps cover the massages so that felt great. I feel very supported by the Universe when what I need always shows up when I need it. I feel a lot of faith in that.

    Then I came back here and I felt such open heart reading through the last series of comments here, like my heart wanting to dance and sing as I was reading … feeling a lot of love in the air …

    And Lisa, thank you, you gave me another video idea for today. Of course you’ll go the direction right for you. For me, my response to hearing avoidants “can’t change” triggers my “oh yeah? I’m not going to be pinned into a box!” response lol. I resonate with the pattern a little bit, I just don’t think it’s true that it can’t change. My experience has been that when we change, everyone changes with us. They can’t stay where they are when we change because their position is relative to our position. So thank you for another brilliant video topic … maybe now that I feel so good after the massage, I’ll take a nice hot shower and get rolling with the video camera :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:19pm

  740. 740: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    “and saw me with ( pardon the graphics here, turn you head if your squeamish) my hair filled with blood said to me and I quote : “What did you do to deserve this?” “What did you do to make him angry?”… I’m used to being invisible and I’m used to my needs/wants being ignored.. it doesn’t make me feel good to have it happen, but I’m used to it…”

    Ouch :(

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 5:24pm

  741. 741: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I encourage you to love, bless and release the past.

    I encourage you to forgive them both and forgive yourself. Say their names out loud and forgive them. Release it out into the Universe.

    Every experience that you’ve ever had needed to occur to you to make you strong. They needed to occur to you to prepare you for this moment. It is what has made youde into this precious loving human being called Lisa.

    I encourage you to evict shame, blame and guilt out of your body. I encourage you to see and embrace your worthiness.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:39pm

  742. 742: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I know you care so much about me, and for that I’m so grateful! I love you too!

    I’ve been through all of this 20 years ago and I’ve healed it to the point where I am now… which is so far from where I was… I have been in therapy for years and I don’t need it, but I continue b/c I like to have someone to go to to look at myself deeper and to vent ( since my life is stressful)… I’ve healed my PTSD… I’ve had many therapist tell me, they are totally in Awe of how healthy I am and they have no doubts that I can handle anything… I appreciate your concerns though.. and yes, it is familiar and what I was doing was saying that logically that is the only thing I could come up with that I might be avoiding… AND there might be something else deeper that Dominique ask about.. even deeper than I might know..I’ll wait and see what surfaces…

    Personal growth doesn’t stop to my knowledge, healed or healthy people still go through spells of looking at themselves deeper.. I think even Rori mentioned that…

    I appreciate that you have compassion and empathy for what I have endured… that makes me feel so loved! Thank You!!! Really you have no idea how much that means to me that you actually acknowledged what I’ve gone through HELL… Most people just act like it was NO big Deal! or just ignore it!! and maybe b/c I acted like it was no big deal… but no more… It was a big deal and I survived it… Thanks for acknowledging it…!!!

    I don’t want to settle for dealing with an Avoidants constant need for distance and creating drama for it.. NO! I want closeness and I don’t want to settle for someone that can’t be interested and involved in my passions in life, at least to some degree… the question is, is “M” really a true avoidant, or can he be like me and heal from it, as he has healed from other things? He is into personal growth.. the question I don’t know is do I hang around to see, or leave now?

    I usually don’t skip to the end of books… I read like crazy… but the ones that bore me in the beginning with stories, I tend to.. like Queens code.. Gina Lakes book Loving in the moment, I devoured it front to back no skipping… and I took time to process it…

    Your right though, I do need to continue on with the book, and digest it before making decisions.. then again with Rori’s tools, I’m wondering if, and “M” has shown that he can grow with me… things might change… ??? I don’t know… I wish I had her wisdom of men and her natural psychic ability on this one.

    Love you! So grateful for you! {{hugs}}

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:44pm

  743. 743: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I am convinced Lisa that you are here for a very special purpose. That experience could have aborted that purpose but the Divine intervened and blocked it. Embrace the survivor/the general that came out on the other side, not the victim.

    I really believe you are a great candidate for being a life coach.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:46pm

  744. 744: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Lol … well wouldn’t you know you FB’d me today out of the blue and called me “love”? Vegas Guy.

    I do not feel inclined to respond at all. He has initiated contact with me and then not followed through a bunch of times. It’s not like it gets me upset – I know he’s not my match because of the life purpose thing – I just get tired of it. It doesn’t add anything to my life.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:54pm

  745. 745: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @feminewoman Aww THANK YOU!

    I have released the guilt and blame…and the victim, ( to the best of my knowledge), but I haven’t yet been able to release the familiarity part… “M” might be a little bit like my Dad, but oh my how much he isn’t like him… so I can see I’ve come a long way baby! I still have a ways to go though until I totally shed it…

    I do believe you are correct! I think that all the books I’m passionate about the 100’s I read, the intense amount of personal growth work I’ve done, the tools of Rori’s that I’m using and my ability to have deep compassion… might just be leading me to the moment when I do just that… I’ve considered doing Rori’s program when the universe provides me with the funds… I’m working on it… I felt chills when I read her letter and I had chills when I just read your post…

    I’m confused by : “That experience could have aborted that purpose but the Divine intervened and blocked it.”

    I can say that I’ve always had a special connection to the devine… it is what drove me to survive…

    Love you! <3 I appreciate you! from the bottom of my heart… you really have been amazing to me…

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 6:57pm

  746. 746: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Did I not say just a few days ago that I am done with men and dating? LOLOL … hahahaha …

    Time to record some videos.

    I like what FeminineWoman said, Lisa. Every word she said resonated with me a lot. I’m feeling glad you feel heard with compassion, that feels like a lot of love. My heart feels open hearing that and knowing you are strong and you will find a way to have relationships that don’t feel avoidant. I believe in you and your strength to create what you want for yourself.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:00pm

  747. 747: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    @Dominque, Mercedes…
    Hi Ladies…was wondering if you had any thoughts on my comment, #480?
    Lots of Love….

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:00pm

  748. 748: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    The Divine blocked the abortion, the killing of your purpose your raison d’etre. Whatever purpose you are here to fulfil is gonna blossom and thrive.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:03pm

  749. 749: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa -I total struggle wtih this all the time…am I going towards something abusive/familiar? Is it unconnected to that and fresh? No easy answers. Here’s to enjoying the journey.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:05pm

  750. 750: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    The Divine can bring the money for Rori’s program too. Sometimes we just need to ask. I pray and ask for assistance from Archangels Michael and Raphael all the time.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:07pm

  751. 751: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Your welcome! I’m here to be a catalyst.. LOL! and an inspiror of great ideas… :-)

    You and I must be very much alike… I’m the same way!!! I’ve cured diseases b/c someone told me it couldn’t be done… I’m that way…say I can’t do it and watch me!!!… LOL!

    I also believe you are correct… and this was my quandry… using Rori’s tools, couldn’t a avoidant be “inspired” to want to change… I’d say yes, and it would be interesting to hear her or other advanced siren’s opinion of that…

    Since “M” has already shown by talking on the phone with me for 2.5 hrs to work out the relationship, that he is committed to me and working it out… I’d say I have a good chance in things possibly changing… and of course as Dominique points out I’m the one that has to change… and I can inspire him… or not…

    I’d love to hear about your new video ….


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:12pm

  752. 752: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Oh Ok Gotcha.. yes, it wasn’t aborted… it hung on by a thread at times… but was never severed…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:26pm

  753. 753: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    So true! Love that you put it that way…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:27pm

  754. 754: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light…

    Getting over someone by getting under them… hmmm

    The emotions that stirs up in me feels like I would be disconnecting from myself and disrespecting another person and their feelings in the process.

    It feels like a bandaid at best and temporary distraction.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 7:49pm

  755. 755: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Ladies … OMG … really feeling my energy shift today and …

    I just got another invitation out of the blue to appear on Huffington Post Live. Not sure if I’ll be able to do it and still what a wonderful sign. I feel like my whole life is going to launch into the stratosphere now that I forgot about men and dating … lol :) Feeling celebratory

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:01pm

  756. 756: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    AWESOME! <3

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:11pm

  757. 757: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Lisa. I feel happy. Noticing that I felt happy before I got the email and it matches the emotional vibration I was already in …

    Btw I added anxious/avoidant to a video that I recorded about limiting beliefs about what is possible in relationships. So that one released along with a lot of other “realistic” and “pessimistic” beliefs … we’ll see what happens :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:20pm

  758. 758: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    getting over someone by getting under someone can sometimes work if you like the new person but sometimes it just starts a whole new other addictive cycle. as Linda pointed out, it’s a bandaid. I’ve done this before but then the addictive process starts all over again, I’ve just transferred my feelings onto a new person.

    maybe it works for others. didn’t work for me in the long-term.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:24pm

  759. 759: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    I should have been in bed at least an hour ago. I just got caught up in the posts out here. wow!!

    Lisa… hugs to you and your journey.

    Indigo… Reading about your peaceful night sleep felt wonderful to read.


    I wanted to post an udate since I unloaded so much last week… This past week end was a really good one with FavoriteCD. He behaved like the man I liked so to be with when we first met. Taking a step back and rejuvinating myself was a really good thing to do. My best move and self therapy has been getting in touch with what I was feeling and sinking into them last week. I pulled back from my relationship and focused on me. I feel so much better. I went into the weekend with FavoriteCD and his daughter feeling in touch with myself again and balanced. A couple of small things came up that would have really bugged me if I had not take the “me” time I did.

    I do think that FavoriteCD did sense me distancing myself because he asked if I felt like I have not been home enough to which I responded “yes” and he said… I will come you way to your house this week if you would like. I appreciate his asking and offering that. He also asked me something I found interesting and thought provoking…”do you still love me”? …. what would prompt a man to ask that? Do they know they have behaved poorly? Do they feel insecure? or Do they just want to know?.. interesting very curious to me. I asked why he asked that and he did give me a answer. hmmmm

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:26pm

  760. 760: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    It’s a fascinating segment too about women and dating! Jumping off from a NYT article about how women in college are opting for casual sex “hooking up” rather than relationships and why … really, really interesting …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:34pm

  761. 761: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    That’s awesome! I’m excited to hear..


    I was thinking about what you said about attracting avoidants… being a nurturer and fixer…

    I haven’t really been nurturing “M” he has been the one nurturing me.. mostly… I have on ocassion taken some care of him when he was sick, but only getting him tea and bringing him stomach meds.. etc.. all I really did was lay beside him and watch a movie…. nothing like what I would have done a decade ago…

    I allowed him to take care of himself, and I just supported him… I do rub his head a little when he lays in my lap… and kiss his head but really as far as nurturing him… I can’t see it now…

    I do fix myself… and things.. I haven’t tried to fix him… though I have offered on a rare occasion a couple of suggestions when he ask… I’m really trying to find this in this relationship how I attracted an avoidant…

    Could be that I still have that energy about me… but not really trying to fix people anymore… hummmm

    He is always trying to fix things for me, find solutions and offer help and resolution for me… he takes care of me when I’m sick or hurt, and makes me tea and puts my bio cream on me at night and covers me up to make sure I’m warm…. he is a very good nurturer, I think…

    Trying to figure this out….

    Thanks for the input, I’ll ponder it…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:43pm

  762. 762: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    Oh yes me too! ooops…. it’s becoming an addiction keeping up with all the posts and everyone… I just love this group… but wow yes, I’m getting behind…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:46pm

  763. 763: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    I noticed in the article, the women don’t talk a lot about how it feels to do what they are doing … I wonder if they are in touch with their feelings at all …

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 8:57pm

  764. 764: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Im starting to get the feel that now is just not the right time for me to be dating men… so I’m going to date myself but remain open to men I meet along the way. Need to take care of my needs right now!

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:11pm

  765. 765: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Erika – haha I’ve just made the same decision re men and dating… looking forward to focusing on other areas of my life for now :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:18pm

  766. 766: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Yay Zia! I am feeling very good about this and I hope you are too. I’ve only been doing it a few days and it’s already very easy not to think about special relationships or men. It’s really funny that Vegas Guy contacted me today. At this point though I don’t think any man could get my attention unless he offered something REALLY enticing …

    So I’m not convinced these college women are in touch with their feelings. Overachievers by day and giving men fellatio by night? That doesn’t sound very satisfying to me. I understand them not wanting to get into serious relationships and keeping options open … this just sounds exhausting though. And not fulfilling.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:34pm

  767. 767: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I’m so loving this book… and yes reading it through…

    I took the test now that I have a printed copy… easier for me I don’t do well reading on a screen…

    I have more secure than anxious… actually I have the first 2 question are both secure and anxious together… but all the other questions was Secure… so I guess that is why I’m doing better with “M” than an anxious would..

    I’m a little confused about the fact that it is so black and white b/c I also have the sixth sense when something is wrong in the relationship, and I’m unsettled until it is resloved.. I’m only as troubled as the relationship I’m in.. so true for me… when my relationships are good, then I’m more at ease.. but I still fit more into the Secure category… strange..

    @Femninewoman you’ve read the book… too right?

    so fascinating…


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 9:58pm

  768. 768: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    I would like to echo what Feminine Woman has said in 741.

    Having come from an abusive past myself, the only way I regained true freedom from it was in finding a way to wholly forgive the people involved. This does not mean you make their behavior ok, and it doesn’t come overnight. You are able to release them from your past and your story. If you are able to do this, along with the incredible knowledge that *you* have always been there for you, and you will ALWAYS be there for you, a freedom and strength can come from it that you may only have dreamed of.

    I agree with Feminine Woman. This needed to happen to make you the beautiful human being you are. And no one defines that, not your father, not “M”.


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:49pm

  769. 769: IndigoNo Gravatar says:


    Just a thought I had when I was reading your discussion about anxious and avoidant types… Have you tried releasing M of the need to be as *there for you* as you want, of the need to fulfill your emotional needs as much as you want?

    And see how that feels to you? Do you still want him, even if he didn’t change at all? To me, this is at the heart of your question. Could this man be enough for you even if everything you said about anxious/avoidant is true, or if none of it is. Can I love him and go on this journey with him even if he never changed at all.

    Love to you xx

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 10:55pm

  770. 770: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    Well how about that, i just got asked out on a girls night with a bunch of women I don’t know. Really looking forward to it because I want to get out and socialise with some new people :)

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:04pm

  771. 771: LisaNo Gravatar says:


    I agree! and forgiveness is done on my father and he hasn’t defined who I am.. except that what he did, did push me to grow….

    “M” wouldn’t even try to….he loves and accepts me as I am… I need to work on that with him…

    I’ve found through decades of healing and release that everything happens for a reason, and everything I’ve been through did.. it was all good.. even though it was difficult and hell at times…

    what my father did hurt at one time, I allowed it to, but healing and clarity has brought me to a place of knowing … that nothing that has been done to me, could take away…that sense of peace and security…. that I find inside myself..

    however, that being said, the brain still connects to the familiar until a new pathway is created… .. and “M” is certainly falling into that category of familiar… I’m looking to change that pathway…

    Thanks so much! for your support and love


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:06pm

  772. 772: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @ Indigo

    I don’t know… yet… it’s been six months… up until recently I’d say yes…. but now, I’m not sure…

    If he is avoidant… and will continue to be distant and needing lots of space.. NO..

    thanks for that question!


    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:08pm

  773. 773: Melanie Murphy MyerNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, usually a secure won’t get into a relationship with an avoidant, so I suspect that either he’s not avoidant or you’re not secure. From what I’ve read of your story, he doesn’t sound terribly avoidant to me. Also, sometimes secures can feel avoidant to anxious attachers.

    Anyone (whether anxious or avoidant) can become more secure. The more secure you are, the more secure the other will feel and behave – or, if they don’t shift that way, your growing security will prompt you to leave the relationship, but not from a running-scared place (fear is indicative of insecurity). Hope this helps!

    ~ Melanie

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:31pm

  774. 774: ViNo Gravatar says:

    CDing and especially a flirting part of it feel way more difficult when I feel no anger. Anger makes me feel ‘entitled’ , ‘justified’…. when there is no anger , there is guilt for wanting more and going for it and sadness for not having this ‘more’ within the relationship I am in now.. sigh.. I am still doing it through my sadness though. This is the direction I feel like going to.. sadness and guilt are not a reason to get off my horse..

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:43pm

  775. 775: ViNo Gravatar says:

    My horse is very graceful and lean and wiry.. she’s got shiny silver hooves. She is smart and spirited. I can trust her.

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:50pm

  776. 776: Erika AwakeningNo Gravatar says:

    Vi, that is such an interesting perspective … I’d love to hear more about that.

    Part of why I stopped dating is there was nothing motivating me anymore. I think that could be in part from having released a lot of emotional stuff that before that gave me the “fuel” to do it … now going out on dates feels like “hard work” even if they pick me up and pay for everything. I’d rather rest and relax at home.

    Will you share more about this? Did you release your anger or it’s just not triggered right now?

    Monday, 15 July 2013 @ 11:51pm

  777. 777: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Erika I’ve felt that way about dating too. I have fun on some dates but sometimes I just want to run. I look at it as an excuse to get dressed in a cute outfit and do my hair and makeup. Lol

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 12:22am

  778. 778: ZiaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m going to cancel the first date I have lined up for Friday night. I was only feeling half hearted about it, and I am going to go do something fun for ME instead. I think I’d have more fun going to a venue where I’m loving the music and just smile at/chat to new people there :)

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 12:26am

  779. 779: SyreenaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, Mercedes.

    I feel interested in your post re forgiviness.

    I feel the same as you Mercedes that the person needs to ask. Not just say sorry, which is at times just an automatic response with a bit and reasoning after trying to blame the victim when abuse has taken place.

    I know the difference between someone who does this and is just saying sorry and not really and someone who is truly remorseful.

    I feel unable to forgive unless I hear, feel and see remorse.

    How can I forgive someone who who is not reallly sorry?

    What are your thoughts?

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:30am

  780. 780: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Erika, I feel sorry I don’t think I can answer your question properly. It may be this and it may be that and it may be both… I just don’t know… I really don’t. And this is something I feel really afraid of, and trying to make peace with myself about this unknown….

    I notice that if I try to figure it out, I start to feel irritated because it gets me back to my head and there are so many great ideas that I simply don’t know which one to choose and consequently I start feeling lost and judging myself as clueless and getting angry towards my own self as a result.. and I don’t want to go there : )

    So this time I just choose to stick to the fact that anger is just not in my Soup right now…

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:32am

  781. 781: ViNo Gravatar says:

    This time I thought – what if I choose to trust my sadness and see where it takes me.. and I feel afraid and worried because sadness is an unusual feeling for me.. usually it’s either joy or anger…

    but you know if I feel a tiny spark of interest towards someone these days – it feels more organic and sincere and my interest feels deeper than usual, unlike when I flirt and go out inspired by my anger… and this puts something that feels like a smile on my face.. :-)

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:35am

  782. 782: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Hmmm.. I remember feeling uncertain about my anger one week before and then Rori came up with this post and the word ‘smokescreen’ in it – in regards to blaming, – but that was how I felt about my anger for the last few days.. like there was something under it.. and then.. I felt sadness… hehe :-) Erika I think this is going to be my answer to your Q about what happened to my anger.. hehe :-)

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:41am

  783. 783: ViNo Gravatar says:

    Erika, now I feel curious how your feelings and your dating life will unfold…

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:44am

  784. 784: IgnisNo Gravatar says:

    I still feel so anxious but, this is really what keeps me going, all the time, specially as a photographer, and it always makes me happy to hunt for the light. Despite of a bit tacky title I though maybe it will make a day for some of you as well: http://www.upworthy.com/this-is-why-your-lover-thinks-you-re-gorgeous-in-a-holey-t-shirt-and-sweatpants-2?c=upw1

    Hugs :)

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 1:48am

  785. 785: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    I love this Ignis thank you x

    Vi – I love when I break through the anger to the sadness sometimes it takes me a long time my anger is so good at protecting me and I have to feel really safe to let go and then when I do ahhhhh beautiful :)

    Zia – yay! that feels good

    Erica – yes I have the ‘hardwork’ feeling too about dates I’m just enjoying doing nice things for myself and Emerson I love your way of looking at it I like getting dressed for a date but I’m going to wear the cute outfits just because I want too and date myself :)

    That said I do have my one CD friend Cd friend he is being truly lovely at the moment one of my biggest supports and just loving and easy to be around

    And I have some great writing work on self love which is so great because I was asking how to do it the other day and then bingo I get a writing contract with all the answers! i love the universe I love myself for opening up these avenues for myself

    And the weather’s beautiful and I’m feeling good

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 2:56am

  786. 786: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Linda & Erika Awakening,

    I can’t tell you what that peacefulness meant to me.

    Tuesday, 16 July 2013 @ 3:26am

  787. 787: Indigo