What Does DRAMA Have To Do With Emotions? And What ARE Emotions, Anyway?

angerHere’s a question about the difference between drama and emotions from Diana, who’s hoping to get into the RRRCT program and become a professional relationship coach:

“Hi Rori!!

I hope things are going wonderfully with you. :o) I want to start off by telling you that I ordered your super special buy-all-your-programs deal and I sooooooo love it!! I am happy to take my Rori-time every morning on my drive to work.

I completed Toxic Men last week. I realized that my favorite guy is indeed “toxic”. It’s funny because I love dealing with him because I’m so great at handling it. …my gain. I get to say: “I’m super at dealing with difficult guys.” lol

Now I am listening to Commitment Blueprint again. I heard something on there that prompted me to write you. I remembered, some time ago, explaining to my girlfriends who I have been “coaching,” how drama was different from expressing negative feelings. (One thing is for certain… no one wants to be considered “drama”.) Tell me what you think of the explanation I gave.

Feelings are ones response to an event. They live “inside” ourselves. Emotions are our response to feelings and the demonstration of our feelings. They are visual evidence of feelings. Emotions are “outside”… others can see, for example….emoticons. Drama is created when we involve others into our display of emotions.

I felt I needed to establish a clear difference between the three, as we are all so hung-up on not being “full of drama”. Not wanting to be “full of drama” should not exist at the expense of not expressing ourselves authentically. I have to remind my girlfriends how it is “ok” and well within their rights to have negative feelings and express them “safely.”

I let them know that it is actually attractive to a man when he has an opportunity to help you feel better and recover from feeling poorly. Men really do want to be able to do that for us and they want to feel that they can take care of us.

Rori, what do you think? Am I guiding my friends down the right track?

I would love to hear from you….Diana”

My Answer:

Diana, Thank you for this – For me, and for our purposes in the Rori Raye methodology – it’s much simpler:

Feelings and emotions are the same thing.

They are feelings and emotions – sensations, energy waves, experiences we feel on our insides and in our body, and they co-exist with and are ENGENDERED by thoughts in our head – but NONE of that is important or helpful.

Understanding this MENTALLY is NOT helpful.

What’s important AND helpful is to simply love that, as a woman, you are an emotional creature.

You are alive with feelings. Period.

It doesn’t matter WHAT you’re feeling – because you’re actually feeling a LOT of things ALL at the same time!

This is “The Soup.” Everything’s happening at once – and the only reason we pick ONE feeling out of the pack is that we FOCUS on one feeling – usually, in my experience – out of HABIT.

And, as we choose the same feelings to FOCUS on, over and over again, we create neural pathways and MORE habits that make us choose those feelings again and again.

In other words, we choose misery instead of joy – when, if we really allow it – we can see that it’s ALL in there.

I might feel miserable about something a man said, and I ALSO feel ecstatic about being able to walk and move my arm and BE ALIVE! I just don’t focus on that, I focus on the pain.

This is all habit, and early life survival skills, and psychological stuff that’s not important to go into.

Undoing it is what we’re about – undoing the habits of where we focus, where we’re “coming from” when we express ourselves.

So – knowing that we’re feeling a lot of different feelings at the same time, and that we all seem to choose certain feelings, and then make up stories about those feelings in our heads, where they combine with our beliefs about ourselves and the world…it turns to DRAMA – IF we are NOT IN TOUCH with the emotions/feelings.

In other words – drama is what happens when you can’t feel your feelings/emotions – when you can’t OWN your feelings/emotions.

When you can’t LOVE and accept and acknowledge and HEAR your feelings/emotions.

It’s something we do to RID ourselves of them. To VENT them, to make them GONE. And we do it in a way that we BELIEVE has worked for us in the past, in our childhoods.

If I can’t feel pain, and joy, too, and love – then I’m going to “act out” like the 2-year-old me who lives inside me with all my other “parts.”

I’m going to focus on the only feeling I can feel (and often that feeling, let’s say of “anger” or “hurt” isn’t a feeling at all – but a mental idea of some experience you’re having that is bringing up an old experience and “layering” that “sense” of a feeling on you.

Most often, you’ll “tantrum” inside and do drama when you feel powerless, like the 2-yr old-inside you, and are trying to “right the ship” in the only way you habitually know.

Drama is EXACTLY what it means in show-biz – it’s an ACT!!!

It has nothing to do with expressing actual feelings or emotions.

It’s a dramatic ENACTMENT of what our thoughts, habits, and sensations are TELLING us is a feeling, but it isn’t.

I can go into this more by actually demonstrating.

For instance – what I’m actually feeling might stream tears down my face, curl my lip in an angry snarl, and course through my body like lightning. NOW – if I just say THAT – I’m expressing the feeling, the emotion, the sensations.

As soon as my brain decides – WHAT THAT’S ABOUT – “he hurt me,” “that happened” I’m no good,” – “he doesn’t love me…” any number of things…then we start choosing these thoughts as real, create MORE emotions and lighting – and if we don’t express that as “wow, I’m really feeling triggered, I want to stomp all over you…”

We’ll start to go to (mentally, physically, tension-wise, every which-way) as “YOU hurt me, YOU don’t love me, WHY is this happening…”

In other words – a 2 year old in a candy store, whose mother just told him he couldn’t have ANYTHING – may FEEL upset, abandoned, hungry – and those feelings may make him want to yell, cry, pound the floor in frustration.

This he does because that’s the only way he can RELEASE those feelings.

For a grown up – this is DRAMA. Because we have words. We have means of expression that a 2 year old doesn’t have.

We can say – wow, I really want that candy, I feel so frustrated I want to scream. I want to jump up and down on this floor, and smash that glass, and pound you into the ground for making me feel this way, for triggering me.

So – you see – the DRAMA has NOTHING to DO with the FEELINGS and Emotions!!!

It has to do with the way you EXPRESS them!

One way is mature and heart-felt and grown-up and direct and expressive and girl-like.

DRAMA comes from feeling powerless, helpless, and railing against the world like a helpless child.

Make sense?

Simply. Once you learn how to express your feelings – it doesn’t matter WHAT you’re feeling!

It’s ALL good. All wonderful. It gives you a chance to discover MORE feelings you didn’t even know you had, but were covering up all because you jumped into the old habit of DRAMA before you even got the chance to breathe and find out what was REALLY going on inside you.

Love, Rori

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226 Comments to “What Does DRAMA Have To Do With Emotions? And What ARE Emotions, Anyway?”

  1. 1: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I am allergic to drama

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:11am

  2. 2: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Wow… this post really is a light bulb for me. I mean It not only helps me but will help tremendously when dealing with other people and what they display.

    For the most part I suppose I know what I am feeling. The way I choose to express them almost NEVER is an outburst. THat feels out of control and tantramish. Sometimes I stuff, ignore, choose my battles..think thru. I avoid showing anger though. THis is something that I just discovered about myself just a few weeks ago. I feel anger but really realy avoid displaying it.

    The last relationship I was in… he had a default setting.. anger. It wore me out. I can see the truth in what Rori has written here better thru what I have experienced and can identify it in him better than me.

    I need to really dig in here and learn more about me.

    It feels daunting…

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:18am

  3. 3: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    FW… I agree !!. THat was one of the biggest reasons I just threw in the towel with FavoriteCD. too much DRAMA.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:19am

  4. 4: CrisNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks! just learnt in the meditation group sessions. There are people that control their behaviour by emotions (“if I don’t do that, then I will feel ..
    “). There are people that control emotions from their source. I am willing to belong to the second group!!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:23am

  5. 5: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m not in any of one group…. I’m in them all. In my experience and my life … everyone has drama at some point…( even the most evolved of us here on this planet- I’ve watched it myself) and some of it is just a little less visible than others… some do it by breathing deeply and acting too evolved that they never would do it (are above those who do) and the ego is still there.. ( I DO realize that this will have some backlash come up from my opinion on this post) and the need to be evolved and then others just let it fly out without monitoring it…

    I’ve watched these over and over and over… and just recently when I had a moment of totally panic when I thought my child had lost her iPad ( which my story is – I can’t afford another one for her homeschooling). I stepped outside of my thoughts, emotions and watched the event and others… and there was everything from rolling of eyes, to total avoidance of me, to someone wanting to come in and make sure that I knew they “were correct ” in seeing she had it in her hands ( which I knew was not correct) it was all drama… and yes, I started it… I’m human and I’m real… it happens… our minds get the best of us sometimes!

    Drama has many guises…….. drama is just the Ego trying to be in charge however that might be… from acting too evolved to do it, to being the best drama queen… Eckhart Tolle talks about it in his book…

    I’m reading the book Emotional Brain and it talks about where emotions come from…. interesting subject and one that I love to discuss…

    someone that is truly not connected to that drama in the moment that it is happening wouldn’t need to stop it or correct it, ignore it or leave it, or be too evolved for it…. they would just be present with that fact that at this moment someone is caught up in their thinking… without judging it…

    Just my experience…

    OXOXO

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:59am

  6. 6: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel curious around drama. I used to say I hate drama and refused to tolerate it. Now I embrace it as the best learning ground to practice and as a mirror for something that I’m resisting inside. I love to sink into me and feel how the drama is triggering my old default reactions to “shut down and walk away” or “lash out and put them in their place” or “placate and diffuse” or “play the victim” depending on how the person is acting or who it is.

    I feel better trying to stay open to hearing the person and looking for the message they are giving me. It seems to melt away the drama. Its amazing how it shifts everything, stances drop and then certain repeat situations seem to fade away. It feels so good noticing patterns changing.

    I feel amused at my own drama, I like to think I’m not dramatic, people tell me I’m not dramatic but when I really sink into me I feel my drama queen wanting to bust out and rampage. My drama mostly looks like wanting to control other people’s drama or avoid it at all costs.

    We’re not all aware or trained or practiced in expressing ourselves in the best ways and the more out of control we feel in a situation the bigger the drama looks. It feels good to me not to judge or correct the way others express themselves and keep my focus on me and thank them for showing up with their message or opportunity to practice.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:23am

  7. 7: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Kyla wonderfully said! I agree!
    I use it as a learning experience as to what was going on with me…. <3 Even other people's drama can be helpful for me to notice my inner feelings around it… excellent post… thanks!

    OXOXO

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:28am

  8. 8: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Sometimes drama is better than it all being neat and tidy and buttoned down. I struggle with this. Drama is bad, that’s what we all have been taught to believe, we want to avoid it all cost. The cost to ourselves, is being robotic and expressionless and emotionless. That seems to be worse than being dramatic so I’ve been coaching myself to express things even if they come out in a dramatic way, rather than suppress them. Does that make sense? Ideally, I’d like to express things as Rori mentions above but its challenging to know the diff between expressing dramatically and expressing non-dramatically. I dunno…seems like really tricky territory to me???

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:44am

  9. 9: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I feel got and that feels so good, thank you.

    I really liked your post, I felt light bulby and immediately came to mind was – what we resist, persists and what we judge in others is pointing at what we can’t accept in ourselves. I haven’t read that book, I feel inspired to check it out.

    It feels so good when I can be aware of that and I feel like jumping for joy and hugging the person for the gift to heal another layer of something buried so deep I refuse to acknowledge its very existence! That feels so much better than judging and default reactions that only serve to keep me safely stuck. Yay for triggers!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:50am

  10. 10: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Linda so happy you are in that place. Drama is not something I want in my life. I have a coworker who does it all the time and I feel like someone pick me up like a rag doll and shaking me or banging me against a wall. I just can’t do that anymore and I am quite comfortable speaking up about it and moving away from it.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:53am

  11. 11: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    This is an interesting discussion – there is some drama that I feel really ugh about like when someone feels the need to escalate something and/or everything all the time – the superlative people i had the most terrible day – that always happens to me type of thing and…

    I can definitely be guilty of two year old drama and I am going to continue to practise the control of this by always bringing more awareness to my feelings – I like this post a lot – I do tend to go to the same feelings of panic – anxiety – rage etc and I can often act out – I am better but I don’t have good regulation and never have

    then….there is PASSION!!! What is the difference between drama and passion cos passion and intensity I have heaps of and I’ve always felt a bit dismayed that I didn’t live in a Latin country for example where emotional expression and passion is much more acceptable – emotions seem to get a raw deal they really do even as a child I was dismissed as ‘tired and emotional’ as if emotions were an irrelevancy

    I have to admit sometimes when I watch some actresses in films let rip (for example penelope cruz plays some really firey ladies) I love them for it …

    I’d be interested in thoughts on this? the line between passion and drama?

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 11:29am

  12. 12: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    then again thinking about it, the female characters mentioned above I can’t think of one whose relationship worked out…not one

    okay Rori’s way is definitely the best way… :)

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 11:37am

  13. 13: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    In other words, we choose misery instead of joy – when, if we really allow it – we can see that it’s ALL in there.

    I really like this and notice that my default, my habit, is to choose misery often. I interpret things in a negative way. Its an unfortunate pattern for me. On the other hand, I don’t think that faking it and pretending I don’t feel that way really works that well for me. What I’ve decided to do instead is to be much more organic about it and gravitate towards the people, places, and things that make me feel good and away from the people, places and things that don’t make me feel good. Probably seems obvious, huh?, but I make myself wrong about feeling the bad feelings and then I try to change them or try to convince myself I shouldn’t feel that way. And as someone mentioned here, what you resist persists. Thought ladies?

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 12:03pm

  14. 14: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    LL – I used to interpret things in a really negative way but I have trained myself a lot away from that – i do daily lists of things that i’m grateful for and have done for about a year that has made a profound difference i think because it’s became a default in lots of situations to flip to the positive – also I continue to do a lot of strengthening faith in the fact that everything is always working out for me – even when it doesn’t feel like it is – I can look back now over the years and see that it did always work out even after the horrible things I was always okay and so if i’ve always been okay it’s always going to be okay …apart from some moments of panic (over xmas for example) I can definitely feel some kind of tangible sense of faith…I don’t deny how I feel if its negative but I try not to dwell on it and try to look for the solutions rather than the doom

    I have also found that the more i’ve done this the more people I used to be miserable with how dropped out of my life

    And I have made adjustments in my life according to who I am…I’ve made myself wrong my whole life because I can be very passionate and I get very affected by environments particularly chaotic ones and I can get a bit hyper (not my word :)) – in all ways I can be very jubilant and uplifting hyper (children’s tv presenter) and very angry venting hyper (political critique) I am all things and I’m finally coming to realise there’s only so much I can do about it – some of it is just who and how I am…I am also quite a strong personality and tend to speak my mind – I can be perceived as emotionally disruptive :) I never wanted to be any of this! I so want to be a calm composed serene person (Yoga teacher maybe – and I have my moments but it’s not the crux of me) and soooo now it’s more about realising I am who I am and loving myself for that – not being disapproving of myself just because other people can be – finding environments and people that are a good fit for me and then I don’t feel the shame so much around ‘not being who people want me to be’

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 12:26pm

  15. 15: IrisNo Gravatar says:

    Great post as always. I always feel thrilled when I wake up in the morning to read another insightful Rori blog entry.

    “I’m going to focus on the only feeling I can feel (and often that feeling, let’s say of “anger” or “hurt” isn’t a feeling at all – but a mental idea of some experience you’re having that is bringing up an old experience and “layering” that “sense” of a feeling on you.”

    -I feel relieved to have read this. When I notice the emotions and sensations running through my body, I had noticed how often I felt anxious. But now I realize that it’s not that I felt anxious more than any other emotion, it is just a feeling I always focuse on. I think I constantly focus on it, because it’s an emotion I have always run away from since High School.

    For me, drama means pointing the finger; an attack on the person I am expressing my feelings to. It’s a cry for help, and stating that it’s everyone else’s fault except for my own. Drama means there’s an agenda.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 12:33pm

  16. 16: angelaNo Gravatar says:

    I LOVE this! I want to feel what i feel and keep feeling. Stories are just drama. I’ve been so dramatic and thats ok too.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 12:59pm

  17. 17: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Sirens,

    It’s been awhile since I was here…. nice to see some new names and also some old friends. :) I have some news/growth to share…. nothing earth shattering, but it feels real and deep… and some of it relates to the topic of drama here.

    When I first found Rori, I was really resistant to the idea of CDing…. it really felt like cheating to me, and if I didn’t want a guy to do that to me, how could I do that to him? It took a lot of time, and me finally just sort of giving into the idea and choosing to focus on what I wanted only. To not worry about what a man might want, because truthfully…. even if you are doing everything “right” or the way you’d want him to treat you… doesn’t mean they’ll respond the same way.

    So, back in October, Sweetheart reappeared in my life. For those of you who don’t know my story with him, we dated for about 6 months last winter/spring and regardless of the facts that he had a lot of personal issues going on, including health, financial, and still being just separated, I wanted the relationship to work, and we were exclusive. As time went on, it just proved too much for me to handle.. very stressful, not feeling my time was respected, not feeling special. Then my mom died and I just needed to focus on me and I ended it. He tried to get in contact a few times, I was polite, but not encouraging. Well, since October, this have taken a drastic turn. His financial situation has changed, he has a car, is moving into an apartment next week (he’s been staying with his parents for almost 2 years) he not only pays for most dates, but also does most of the driving. When I have driven to meet him, he’s offered to come get me, but it didn’t make sense and sometimes I like to have my own car. He took me away for a weekend, paid for everything including a concert, we exchanged Christmas gifts, he’s in daily contact and would love for me to be his girlfriend and for us to be exclusive. He’s told his family that I’m important to him, I’ve spent a little time with his son, and he is open to a big future together. In fact, we are planning a week at the beach this summer.

    This is where I see my growth…. even though we have a great time together and I feel he has really stepped up in a lot of ways, and his life is way more on track,….. I haven’t slept with him. For as much as I love sex, I know I get more attached and emotional, and it’s easier to make excuses, etc. I’ve told him several times that I don’t want to be a married guy’s girlfriend, and that I don’t want any of this to feel like pressure or an ultimatum, but that I’m open to dating other people. I will not wait, I don’t want to limit myself from what I want, as I have no idea how long it may take for his situation to change and I don’t want to feel resentful. He says he agrees and understands, although would love to have me all to himself. I have also distanced myself from his drama, and I see him really doing well, more than stepping up. I definitely feel good around him, I feel comfortable together…. yet aware he has a ways to go, and I don’t want to get caught up in something that isn’t what I want. I’d say a lesson here, is that sometimes it just bad timing for a relationship. It doesn’t mean he’s toxic or a bad guy if he can’t give you what you want.. it’s just not the right time for it. Maybe we will get there, maybe not, but this feels much better to me now, and I’m maintaining boundaries. Sometimes I feel a little guarded, but I’m still finding myself too.

    The other man I spend time with is Mr. Conversation, who for those of you who remember…. I really thought was my dream board man. Wow was I smitten with all his drama and did a ton of leaning forward. We have fun together, it’s definitely casual, no future planning of any kind beyond being in each others lives long term…. but when it’s good, it’s awesome. I recently took him to a birthday party with me, for an old friend from high school and we had a great time. He still has a lot of drama, and I know that no matter how much I may be attracted to him, how exciting it feels, we’d probably drive each other crazy if we lived together. I don’t even want that with him now. I like what we have, it’s fun and flirty and he means a lot to me.

    C, my ex was home for the holidays, sick, in an awful mood, we had a huge argument, but I learned something from it. The one thing he said was that I don’t take good enough care of myself, and he’s right. I’ve been so worried about money lately, I haven’t been spending hardly any on myself. Somehow it translated into me not feeling worth it…. because I need to lose weight. Well, I turned 40 in Dec. too, and have made a promise to never forget myself again! A friend treated me to a manicure for Christmas and I can’t get over how much more together I feel! I love it! I ordered the Wen cleansing conditioner because my poor hair, one of my best qualities, is not holding up well with this winter weather. It’s only been 2 days and it feels so much healthier and so soft. Getting a cut tomorrow. Nothing I’m doing costs a lot, I’ve used gift cards for new perfume and ransacked my closet to put together cute outfits, but I feel a million times better. He meant to be insulting with what he said, but I turned it into advice. I also got all my dr. appointments taken care of, I’m completely healthy! Oh, and in typical C fashion….. he bought me an expensive camera (update of what I had) I’ve wanted for years, and now I’m revamping that hobby and hopefully going to turn it into potential additional income! :)

    I went on one other date and chat with a few other guys, with the holidays and work, I haven’t had a lot of time, and since I barely lean forward…. my focus isn’t on finding new men. Just being open to what comes my way! I’m getting to spend time with family and friends and my wonderful girls, so life feels really full.

    But even with all that good stuff…. I feel somewhat blah about relationships. I recently read an article that said that sometimes the problem is us. It can’t always be the guy. That our dream of mr. wonderful keeps us from plenty of great relationships because we want perfect. If we really wanted a relationship, we could be in one…. A lot of the men I dated are now married. Am I too picky? Is my ex too involved in my life for me to really make space for someone else? Do I REALLY want a serious relationship? Am I happier alone, not taking a big chance, so I don’t get hurt? ALWAYS more questions I have to answer.

    I had a new years eve party and invited Sweetheart and Mr. Conversation, plus another couple, my sister, and Mr. Conversation brought his ex…. she had nothing to do, has no friends, but they have a 2 year old together and eveyone brought their kids. I honestly didn’t mind. We’ve met before. My friend pulled me aside and said the tension between me and Mr. C is so obvious, we looked more like a couple than who we were with, and it’s true, we laugh and joke, have an attraction…. I wish I could mesh him and Sweetheart together. I feel like I don’t have that passion and energy with sweetheart, but there is a lot of care and kindness there…. and there is all this energy with Mr. C, but not enough of the other stuff….

    So, I guess what I’ve learned about CDing, is that you get to take the best parts of each man and enjoy that. I feel like I have time. I’m not on a schedule, I stay present, I feel grounded. I feel focused on myself.

    I’m open to dating others…. will see if anything materializes. Anyone else having this kind of experience with CDing?

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 1:17pm

  18. 18: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for your response Sophie. I loved reading what you wrote. It feels good to know that there are others dealing with some of the same issues. Yes, I am passionate too so I can def relate to that. I’m going to try to let my heart guide me to what I want, and away from what doesn’t feel good. I trip myself up sometimes in dating or friendship when I try to make myself like someone when in my heart I know that there’s just no spark there for me. It just doesn’t work for me and I’m not doing it anymore.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 1:27pm

  19. 19: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Has anyone heard of The Three Day Rule dating site/service? I’m very curious about it.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 1:28pm

  20. 20: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Turquoise

    You sound great :-)

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 2:53pm

  21. 21: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    HI Turquoise
    welcome back…I do remember your posts from a while ago and I’m glad to hear how far you’ve come. You are an inspiration to me too.
    I am trying to get past the “dating more than one guy at a time” thing too….I understand that CDing idea and can say that I’m probably doing that now……receiving texts from an old LD (which lasted almost two years), since him I dated exclusively (it was sexual but ended because he was so overwhelmed with work so only occasional holiday texts now), online emails with another (which I didn’t pursue but responded to), dated another guy after emails and calls (he got all weird and sexual on our first date so I set a boundary…haven’t hear back yay!) and last week met someone on match and we went for coffee/a drive and some texts but now quiet the past few days….trying really hard to not email him hello) and then coffee with another guy off an on for the past year..he feels more like a friend…hugs, texts….

    your comments: “take the best parts of each man and enjoy that. I feel like I have time. I’m not on a schedule, I stay present, I feel grounded. I feel focused on myself”……

    …….I”m trying to do that….find it hard sometimes. In CDing…do we stay passive….????only let him initiate…if he says email me anytime, that he wanted us to text and it’s been since Monday and I’m wondering how he is……do we email “hi”…….do I text “hi”……….do I totally lean back? or is he directing/leading when he invites that?

    I’m always wondering if we should just park in “lean back mode” all the time.

    The way your describe your experience Turquoise….what have you been doing?

    Other sirens….what’s your take?
    xo
    Aurora

    (ps so good to be back!)

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:21pm

  22. 22: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light

    here’s what I found about the three day rule:
    from the Ask Men website ”

    “The idea behind this dating rule of thumb is to make sure that your new squeeze doesn’t think you’re desperate to see her. And it’s become a golden rule because it often works. Many women know the dating game, and want to see if their new man can play it. Prove that you can by keeping it cool, and resisting the urge to follow up on a meeting too promptly. Just make sure not to wait longer than a few days to call back, or she may cool off entirely. ”

    hmmmmmm :)

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:24pm

  23. 23: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    oh I so like this one, from the Huffington post, that challenges the 3 day rule:
    They say:
    “So, we have some better dating advice to offer. Here are dating rules you should actually follow:

    1. Contact your date when you feel like talking to them. There’s nothing wrong with contacting someone you’ve gone out with when the mood strikes. (Though if you feel the need to be calling someone every hour, on the hour, there might be an issue.)

    2. Don’t play the “wait for the other person to make the first move” game. It will probably just make you miserable and neither of you will ever make a move. If you are a reasonably perceptive person, you should be able to tell when someone is interested in you and act accordingly. ”

    There are 5 other rules but these were kinda related to our topic…

    lol more hmmmm I kinda like these ones….they make sense to me!

    xo

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:28pm

  24. 24: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    and from Evan Mark Kratz, who does suggest mirroring and following his lead and not initiating…..

    “Because when you don’t follow his lead – when you start initiating contact and asking him out for dates – you never actually find out how he feels about you.”

    yep……I get it.

    I needed to process this…

    xo
    Aurora

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:34pm

  25. 25: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Aurora! I was actually talking about a dating site called The Three Day Rule. Its new and they claim to only have “quality” men and women on their site and that they are screened.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:36pm

  26. 26: OliviaNo Gravatar says:

    Good post. I need these reminders.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:50pm

  27. 27: MovingMagicNo Gravatar says:

    I love my inner drama queen. She comes out from time to time. ..like an actress appearing from behind a curtain. Mostly she’d a serene yogi/dancing goddess. When my queen steps on stage I know it’s because she has something to say.
    She doesn’t run the show but when she makes her presence known I throw glitter on her and hand her exotic flowers.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 3:50pm

  28. 28: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Moving Magic – wow that feels magically inspiring how you throw glitter and give her exotic flowers…

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 4:51pm

  29. 29: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Drama feels better than just sucking it up and being “good” all the time.

    I’ve long followed the whole “don’t cause a scene, don’t be such a girl,” and other such advice.

    I’m embracing my drama, but I won’t live there. It feels so much better to just be IN the tears, and IN the anger… than trying to pretend it isn’t there and feeling it eat at me as I try to paste the Comedy theatre mask over the inner Tragedy feelings.

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 5:27pm

  30. 30: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    “Once you learn how to express your feelings – it doesn’t matter WHAT you’re feeling!” I am learning this more and more listening to Rori’s programs. Loving the Complete Collection – the emails are awesomely helpful!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 6:52pm

  31. 31: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Aurora, thanks for sharing your experiences too. :) it sounds like you are opento a lot of possibilities… And I think that’s the best way to start CDing. I very rarely lean forward and start the conversation for the day…. Especially in the beginning of a relationship. The reason isn’t about playing games or anything like that… It’s that it feels so much better when they lean forward and I don’t have to wonder if they really are interested or just responding. It definitely seems to go better. These guys have been in my life a long time now, so sometimes I do say good morning or if there is something big happening, I check in, because I care. But with no expectation of what I’m going to get. I agree men like to Persue and it makes them happy to do it… It makes me happy to receive, so I let them.
    The other guys I talk/text with, I don’t lean forward at all. 2 are in the middle of divorces, one lives 2 hours away, and one lives right here… It’s been months of texting and I hear from him sporadically. He says he wants to meet, yet doesn’t make plans. I don’t worry or wonder why. Sometimes I don’t reply if I don’t feel like it. A few weeks ago he asked if he’d done something wrong or was bothering me… I said no, but I was looking for more than a pen pal. He insisted he really wants to meet, yet that still hasn’t happened. I haven’t let it get to me at all… If they aren’t right in front of you, they don’t really exist.

    Sometimes if I’m feeling a little worried I haven’t heard from a guy, instead of leaning forward, I’ll reach out to a long distance guy or reply to emails or meet me’s on my dating sites for the distraction. Male attention can take the sting out and when I feel more rock star again, I don’t care… And then suddenly I seem to hear from who I’m missing.

    I really think the difference is that I feel more confident about what I want, and I’m completely comfortable being single. Was hard to swallow that I may stay single, but if that’s the way it’s going to be… Dating is fun, I enjoy the companionship… It works!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:10pm

  32. 32: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:

    Hi April Rose!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:12pm

  33. 33: TurquoiseNo Gravatar says:

    Aurora, I wrote a long reply on my phone… Not showing up! Ugh! If not here in the morning, I’ll retype on a computer! Good night ! Hugs sirens!!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 8:14pm

  34. 34: AmberNo Gravatar says:

    Sophie- 11&12
    made me giggle, thanks!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:11pm

  35. 35: AmberNo Gravatar says:

    This is great because I am struggling to feel what I REALLY feel.
    Example:
    Tuesday night (T) and I had a conversation about me dating someone else. He got mad and said, I think I’ll go. I broke down sobbing, but there were NO TEARS. I KNEW I wasn’t feeling sadness, but I couldn’t identify what I WAS feeling. I just got it, 5 minutes ago. *slaps forehead* It’s friday for goodness sakes! How could it take me almost three days to realize what I felt was PANIC?!
    Pure and unrelenting PANIC that if he left at that moment I would NEVER see or hear from him again. At least now I know what panic feels like. It feels like tightness, grasping, sobbing, retching… it feels terrible. YAY!

    As a side note, (T) immediately stopped what he was doing, sat beside me, held my hand asked what was wrong and when I SOBBED “I don’t want you to leave, I never want you to leave.” (Which sounds terrible as i type it but was completely MY TRUTH in the moment) he said, “You are the love of my life. I will never be gone from you, unless you make me go. Somehow it doesn’t matter who you see or what you do with them, I will always love you.”

    MELT

    He stayed with me, wrapped me in his arms and held me all night.

    Chhers, Sirens… Expressing out feelings WORKS!

    Thursday, 9 January 2014 @ 10:33pm

  36. 36: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Turquoise 17—
    Great post! It is so inspiring to read about transformations and I am honestly amazed you are upholding a no sex boundary. It takes an amazing amount of strength to say much less admit that “I will get more attached after sex.” I will too. Especially if I’m into the person. If I’m not into him, I don’t really care….but with a man you LIKE..AH! its hard!!!! Much love and support to you. I also love how you took your man’s criticism as advice and turned it around to benefit you instead of tear you down. That is something I can work on! Thank you :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 12:24am

  37. 37: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Amber 32–
    Panic. Panic is interesting. I have felt this many a time, but have not been able to clearly label it as you have. I actually have a hard time identifying my emotions because as the article says…it’s a soup! I feel a bunch of things at once! ARGH.
    I will say that, I have opened up as you did, I have been vulnerable, I have let a man know how much he is worth to me, which feels crazy scary…..and he held me all night, told me he loved me, told me he never meant to hurt me, but also said, he “would rather walk away than hurt me again.” That says it all…..
    And I hate to admit it, but I feel myself doubting men. I doubt what they say. I was spending time with this one guy who seemed to be really into me or at least great at pretending. (cynic is showing in me) and I wanted to believe what he said was true, but his actions didn’t line up. So my advice to you is…as cliche as it is…Actions do speak louder than words. Always. So be alert to that.

    My ex actually texted me the other night….a long text remembering a night we had together. He was insulting me in the text, but I know him well enough to know, that’s his way of flirting….and saying “I’m thinking about you, but I don’t want you to know I’m thinking about you, so I’m going to insult you.” It’s twisted, I know….But after five years, I know his M.O.
    I replied, not necessarily friendly since he’d insulted me…and I didnt feel like being nice or “going along.” He replied back…”nevermind, I really don’t care. Bye.”
    WOW!!! just wow…….After that I blocked his #.
    I DO NOT EVER want to read texts like that. I don’t deserve it! Thanks for going out of your way to be mean to me….a**hole. I don’t care what you are going through or what emotions you are feeling that you obviously can’t deal with. Blocked. And yes, I miss him, but it’s a shadow on my life now. It’s in the past, the sun has set on better days. That door can’t be open anymore, he’s hurt me too much. I miss him, yes, because our relationship was special, but if he wanted me, he’d do something about it, other than insult me. Thanks bud. Thank you for giving me more reasons to walk away.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 12:35am

  38. 38: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t think of myself as a dramatic person. I am able to express myself, I’m obviously working on that, but I don’t cause drama. To me…drama can be not necessarily related to emotions at all. Drama can be about “he said” “she said” rumors and little passive aggressive actions that people do to trigger others, to manipulate them, to do something with not the best intentions. This is drama to me…and I know people that act like this. It has nothing to do with how they feel, most of the time it isn’t even their business, but passive aggressiveness goes a long way, and gossip even further…

    I’m realizing tonight, that, I’m angry. I feel anger. This is curious. I think this anger is resulting from life not going my way in the realm of men. I didn’t get what I want. I’m hurt by how people have treated me. I feel angry that I can’t have a relationship with my ex, but at the same time angry at myself for even having a shred of desire to WANT a relationship with him! I shouldn’t !!!! I’m angry at me…..and I’m angry at the men around me…..and I’m angry that I seek close, intimate, geniune relationships, and are denied that.
    Anyway, my friend said this today, and i feel it is true more now than ever: Focus on you.
    I need to. The problem with me is that I’m a natural multi-tasker. I can juggle everything, and I’m high functioning. So, yeah, those miserable feelings I have surface and give them attention, as in this post, we choose what to focus on, and I focus on my failure with realtionships. I cry. I hurt, I feel anger. I indulge it. I need to stop doing that. Not that it is not a valid feeling, but it’s taking up too much of me, and at the end of the day, that feeling of failure is too prominent. It’s hindering my confidence. It’s exposing too much marrow too soon.
    I think, I’m going to stop “thinking” about relationships and just focus on life without a man right now. All that energy is better served towards my career, even if that means no sex :/
    It will change when i do right?

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 12:46am

  39. 39: KathNo Gravatar says:

    Since I had my bit of a meltdown I have sunk back into me. I have tried not to feel very sad and tearful whenever he can’t show me affection, can’t touch me, can’t hold me, can’t kiss me. But it does feel bad and I can actually visualise my little girl hugging her knees in tears. So I wear the baggiest jumper I have in my closet so that I feel at least my clothes are hugging me. I have to focus on me and look after me and hopefully he will see that I am not asking anything of him that he isn’t able to give me. I now know that he isn’t able to give me the emotional support I had hoped for- I know I am essentially a lot stronger than him and when I feel weak, it terrifies him, confuses him, disappoints him because it shows him that I really am likke every other woman he’s ever known. Its my drama he can’t handle-and my drama happens when I can’t face how I feel ir identify what I feel and my mind starts mashing everything up- that’s what I need to change-Working on it!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:03am

  40. 40: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Since this journey began for me, I’ve been realizing more and more how much of the “self help” industry is really made for men. Even though it’s all “zen” and stuff, it’s really about controlling, fixing, altering… even the standard “accepting what is” is offered in a proactive way.

    This morning, I was doing my affirmations (I know that Rori says they don’t work, but they help me), and I suddenly started saying one of my main affirmations (that hasn’t worked, but that oddly I still cling to) in a different way. It was completely spontaneous and I’d been doing it for a few seconds before it dawned on me.

    I normally say, “I am rich and happy/healthy, as I was created to be.” I say it once with happy, then with healthy the next time.

    This morning, completely without realizing it, I had switched it to, “I feel rich and healthy, as I was created to be.”

    And it opened up the understanding for me. I don’t necessarily need to BE rich, I just want to FEEL what I believe “rich” feels like. Like security and confidence.

    The alteration of my affirmation to “feel” completely changed how I felt about it! The whole jumping off point for anyone who practices the laws of magnetism is FEELING! And I’d been trying to use my affirmations to create the end result of “being rich” when what I really need to create is the beginning, which is “FEELING rich”!

    Sorry, I know a lot of people poo-poo on the law of magnetism /attraction, and I don’t want to debate about that. I just wanted to talk about how huge this felt to me.

    I want to feel healthy. I want to feel rich. I want to feel happy. I want to feel loved. I want to feel wanted. I want to be attracted to the man in my life.

    To be it, I must feel it… and that has long been the missing piece for me. The wording change feels strong and dynamic for me.

    Sorry for the total aside here. Carry on. :D

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:31am

  41. 41: samiNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Sirens and Hi Rori & Hi Dominique

    I have a question. I understand that when our thoughts and opinions and perceptions mix with our feelings , we do drama !
    Simple expression of pure feelings = no drama.

    However, this is only level 1 communication. My question is that my man responds to this with – O no honey ! What triggered this? Did I do something wrong?

    OR

    O no ! Why do you feel that way??

    You need a second level of communicating where blame often enters cause you have to relate to a particular experience that made you feel that way…and if it involves the man..he almost instantly feels blamed…

    And it in this second level of sharing that things feel a bit hard to articulate for me sometimes. It often seems like no matter what words you choose, men subconsciously feel blamed somehow… perhaps its because they sense your unhappiness and they love you to bits and want to be your hero??
    Example of a spiralling down conversation:

    Me: O no. I feel sad and lonely…

    A man: oh. and why is that ? ( he is curious till this point)

    Me: I miss you. It want more romance… it feels good to feel closer to you and I miss it

    the man: aaah.. so now u want more romance? im not giving enough already. im the bad guy around.. it makes me feel not enough–like nothing i do is enough…and there is something always missing

    Me: o ! that feels horrible to hear. I did not want to blame… I just wanted to share that it feels good to feel close to you..and i´d like to feel that way again

    the man: hmm. its just hard to hear these words of “lack” on a regular basis..there is a lack because what is there is not enough right? i do so much for you everyday…and one thing i do wrong and i get to hear how down you feel about it…

    I derive my strength from your happiness..and each time you articulate a negative feeling or a feeling of lack..it makes me feel im not doing my job well of loving you.. that its not enough how i love you and its very hard to listen to that kind of thing.

    I would really appreciate expert comments on this ! My husband is totally and deeply devoted to me… and I am coming to realize that i should not share my feelings all the time and should let it go and forgive often cause he feels down too if i dont feel happy….especially if its in regard to something that “he does” or does not do…

    Would be thankful to you sirens and dominique and rori for any advice.

    Also sirens, while im a total fan of Rori, she literally “changed my life”, i also cannot forget to thank Dominique for how consistently and patiently she has supported me through my engagement phase, issues of daily living together 24/7, and now in my new marriage.. I love her much too, hold her as a dear friend and confidante and bought her goddessy program which also rori recommends… Its excellent ! :)

    Love to you all and have a nice day everyone :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:33am

  42. 42: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Sami, I might try the “carrot” approach for a while, see how that feels.

    When he does good, fawn on him a little.

    “Oh, honey, that felt so good! I feel really turned on when you do that.”

    Your man will fall all over himself to do things that make you feel turned on. That’s a FACT. Hell, strange men will fall all over themselves if they have an inkling that something they did turned you on. :p

    Accept that your man is a sexual creature. Turn yourself on his presence, and then make it about him. Use the “opening your pelvis” to bring yourself to a state of arousal so that it’s REAL, and then tell him that you are feeling so turned on… when he makes you breakfast, it just turns you on! When he takes your hand in public to show his affection, it just turns you on!

    Not to throw men under the bus, but the phrases, “Wow, I feel turned off” when they do something inappropriate, and “I feel turned on” when they do something great… extreme power over a man’s mind.

    Powerful enough that, since I’m not sure I want to get back with my ex, I won’t use them on him. :p

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:44am

  43. 43: KathNo Gravatar says:

    Sami, #38- I soo agree with you!- My man instantly feels as though I am accusing him of failing when I say how I feel and if it involves me saying anything like “I miss your arms around me” or “I miss being close to you” he just says “It works both ways” and still nothing happens!- I end up feeling really frustrated and at a loss as to what to say next!- Sometimes it really feels as though he wants me to do all the changing and making things right again and then he’ll be ok- I really am starting to feel as though I can’t tell him how I feel and that is an issue for me.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:44am

  44. 44: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    37 Shannon…..
    I was happy you posted your revelation……I didn’t see it as an aside…..I appreciate you letting us in to how you moved from “I am ” to “I feel”……I love the LOA stuff….it has helped me through a lot!

    I find it challenging to get out of my head “I am” and into my heart and soul with “I feel”…but I love how it feels when I”m there…it feels more authentic and I like sinking into the feeling to experience it and it always helps me just be, or move forward, whatever is next

    xo
    Aurora

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:55am

  45. 45: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    BTW sirens
    My leaning back is getting easier! I haven’t texted or emailed my date from a week ago who I haven’t heard from since Monday….yay me! EMK’s words “you’ll never now how he feels if you initiate” really sank in. I appreciate how Rori’s encouragement to lean back really leads us to what we are looking for in our heart…

    I’m tired of over functioning anyway !lol

    I feel open….I feel curious….. :)

    xo
    Aurora

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 4:00am

  46. 46: CrisNo Gravatar says:

    Sami, very well described! it also happens with my husband cause he has a very high degree of responsibility and try to fix everything and blame on himself directly. So 1st time I said “I feel lonely in my side of the bed sometimes”… his perception was very negative and asked for an explanation. He was scared and looked uncomfortable
    So, for now, only appreciation msgs until he gets more confident :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:21am

  47. 47: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Sami – 38 – Thank you for your lovely and supportive words. :)

    As for your question/dilemma, I think we’ve talked about this. When you find the same kind of thing arising repeatedly, eg. here you feel lonely and miss feeling close to him, you might want to look inside first to see where you aren’t giving to you, where you aren’t showing enough love and care to you. This could be more about you.

    Another part to this and since he seems to be a sensitive man, instead of coming from a place of lack and missing, how about going to him and saying – I would love a hug right now. – when you crave connection. It is okay to ask for this, especially since you’ve been together for so long and are married.

    xxoo

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:38am

  48. 48: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Cris – 43 – YES!!!

    xxoo

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:40am

  49. 49: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    For Sami, Kath, and Cris and anyone else – Here is an article which talks some more about this, and there are links within which elaborate further. I hope this helps you.

    http://sexandheart.com/blaming-and-criticizing-your-man/

    xxoo

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:44am

  50. 50: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Posts 6 & 9 trigger me. I have a very difficult time accepting that someone elses behaviors and drama is actually my stuff being mirrored back. When I replay some of the incidents that I encountered with the last man in my life… I cant find his issues eminating from me. I honestly looked, tested that idea. If it was true.. I wanted to locate it in me and deal with it because it was awful !! It felt bad all the time.

    The only thing I can get in touch with is that his behavior and communication style ilumintated how incompatible we were.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:46am

  51. 51: annmarieNo Gravatar says:

    I need someone honest loving outgoing love to cook.love church

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:49am

  52. 52: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Linda, I don’t think it’s always a mirror (personal view). I think it’s a mirror when it comes up repeatedly with various people.

    Like, let’s say that I keep running into angry drivers. I THINK that I’m not an angry driver–it’s these jerks on the road that are the problem…

    That’s them mirroring to me that I am the angry driver.

    But sometimes when you run into AN angry driver, the message is something else. Perhaps I’m afraid of angry people, and this is an invitation to step into my power and say, “I feel afraid” to someone.

    It’s not always a mirror, sometimes it’s an invitation. I think the big difference is often in how many different people keep bringing it to you.

    Perhaps the issue with your ex was about your boundaries and he was continuing to offer you opportunities to overcome your fear and speak honestly. Just an example of how it can be an opportunity/ invitation, rather than a mirror.

    But frequently, we run into people who mirror to ourselves what we’re doing to ourselves.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 5:50am

  53. 53: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Men reacting negatively to those kinds of feeling messages can feel that you have an agenda, you want something from them, you’re not just sharing your feelings to be open because you expect results.

    I find appreciating the positive when I’m getting it and finding ways to fill that need myself brings dramatically faster and better results when I want more of anything. Also flipping the feeling messages to focus on the positive and that include a compliment like when I was feeling blue last week and you wrapped me up in your big, warm arms, oooh I loved that I felt soothed and soaked in love and it felts so damn good there, thank you

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 6:09am

  54. 54: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel misunderstood and I feel ok with that. It feels good to focus on my own experience and celebrate my healing and growth. I love and honour my stranger.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 6:34am

  55. 55: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Liquid Light #8 YES!!! totally!

    @Kyla #9 Awww <3 and yes I agree! Once I find that splinter in myself and release it, take responsibility for it, I feel so free and happy, I do want to jump and hug them! It is a gift.

    And totally Passive Aggressive is drama inward… very much so In my opinion… it's like a festering sore… it is all happening inside..

    I can cause drama just by doing something that has nothing to do with anything other than my own self and my own thinking… how could I ever be responsible for someone else's drama… I can't… they do it to themselves… all I did was react to my own thoughts… IMO

    "D" is on his way we talked last night while he was driving… I was to call him and keep him company if I woke up in the middle of the night, which thankfully I didn't… but then I did call this morning… he said he would turn his phone off, if he was sleeping… but part of me wants to lean forward and text him, to see if he is ok… but I'm not going to…. my voices are saying he might have turned around, changed his mind.. and then I say, that would be ok… I can call up a friend and go out and have fun anyway tonight…

    and then sadness comes… I think I'd be sad if he didn't come… and all of this b/c his phone is turned off… and no other reason for me to believe he isn't on his way, still… funny…

    first time I've wanted to lean forward in a long while… hummm what's up with that?

    OXOXOX

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 6:49am

  56. 56: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    RE 47 Linda I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you. I have one of Rori’s old CDs – Interview with a Relationship Expert. In it he clearly advises women not to engage with a man’s drama and the man will have no option but to drop it. Emotions are contagious and I believe with awareness one can deflect or not engage with what is coming at you. Just because someone else says that it is what is being reflected back at you doesn’t make it true. You the person in the situation is only one that can truly tell. I don’t think anyone can argue with your experience.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:00am

  57. 57: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    (((((((((((((((((Kath))))))))))) I know Dominique responded to you but I wanted to share what crossed my mind when reading your comments.

    I know how you say baggy clothes help you to feel but have you thought of changing that pattern? How about putting on some really sexy clothes, skirt and high heels and make up? It might make him take a second look and wonder. You see I am pretty sure he knows what you do when you feel depressed and constantly dressing the same way might be reinforcing what he believes you might be thinking of him. You seem to need to find a way to put on a happy vibe or take yourself to your happy meadow when things don’t go the way you want.

    The other thought was have you considered pleasuring yourself while around him? When he can’t give you what you want. Radical and scary but have you thought about it?

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:20am

  58. 58: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Shannon I loved reading about your revelation.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:47am

  59. 59: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m feeling like goldilocks, men are showing up to me in 3′s and helping me figure out what I truly want. Like T, DrWho and Bear. They all spoil me and are very alpha and their frequency of contact is so different.

    - T came on too strong, demanding constant attention, aggressively trying to tie me down to an instant exclusive relationship after 2 dates. I thought I wanted to be chased down by an alpha male. Felt like being dragged by the hair back to his cave. It felt too hot.
    - DrWho contacts only once a week or so, at first I liked I liked that but now I feel bored. Feels like I’m in his drawer for later. It feels too cold.
    - Bear built up to contacting daily and doesn’t blow up when its several hours before I have time to return a text, dates are slowly becoming more frequent, he’s taking continuous steps forward. He’s definitely leading the dance and I feel like he’s paying attention to my tempo. That feels just right.

    Feels good to be getting clearer on what I want. I want more CDs in my rotation besides DrWho and Bear. I seem to have a bunch of fun first meets, work through a pattern fast, practice something new, not feel romantic with any of them and bam everyone’s poofed and a new pattern emerges with the next bunch of first meets. Its cyclical. Right now I’m at the lull in-between when I’m sifting through emails feeling various degrees of ewww with the odd yawn. I should probably give the yawns a chance but feels like too much effort.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:49am

  60. 60: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    I didn’t say the someones drama is a literal mirror that we are the same. I feel unheard and misinterpreted.

    I shared that I personally feel good discovering and learning to drop my own stances to triggers, recognizing that my stances are drama and outside drama triggers my default stances and my own experience of how that looks for me. I shared that it gives me the opportunity to notice and choose to respond differently and that as drama is high stakes stuff, the stronger my trigger the more powerful the shift when I choose differently.

    I feel teary and angry. I feel my positive personal all about my own growth experiences have been trampled on.

    I feel sad that it feels triggering to others for me to share my success in using Roris tools. I personally feel inspired and encouraged when I hear from others.
    - facilitating anger
    - recognizing our stranger
    - learning to drop our stances
    - staying in the dance position
    - embracing my inner drama queen

    I feel pissed.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 8:56am

  61. 61: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla, I loved your posts. I’m sorry you’re feeling so bad. My heart felt sad and I shared your heartache as I read your post.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 9:14am

  62. 62: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @kyla Sorry your pissed and I totally know how that feels to be mis-read…

    I’m feeling rejected and not by anything other than…. I haven’t heard from him… and my head is thinking…. he has turned around and went back… maybe he is married, maybe he just wanted sex… so he changed his mind…

    and then I hear OK! well if any of those are true, then you don’t want to see him, date him… and that is true I don’t…

    part of me wants to text him to say, “I’m feeling concerned and hope you are safe”

    and I’m having lots of realizations today about how I cope with this kind of ansy and restless
    feeling of needing to lick my wounds…

    feel better to come home and keep busy until I know if he will show up or not…

    and yet, I’m perfectly fine to go dancing tonight with friends or myself… and be my sexy, feminine self…

    so what gives… why am I feeling so restless and fidgity… when I know I’ll be fine if he doesn’t show up….??? I’m curious…

    b/c if he doesn’t show up, that means he had other intentions that weren’t in alignment with what he said to me…

    I feel better now… breathing in… deeper…

    I know I’ll be fine… I just need to let that soak into my bones…

    OXOXO

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:12am

  63. 63: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    (((Shannon))) thanks sweetie I feel supported and that feels like a big warm hug around my heart.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:13am

  64. 64: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    (((Lisa)))
    Did you have a time arranged to meet him later?

    When I feel anxious that my excitement will lead to disappointment I like to imagine putting him in a balloon and letting it go and watching it float up into the sky until it disappears or I wash my hands and imagine the suds are my expectations and watch them swirl down the drain.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:22am

  65. 65: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Linda 47,

    I don’t believe other people are always a direct reflection of us – in other words, I don’t believe it’s as simplistic as, the person in front of me is angry, therefore I must be angry.

    But I do believe our experiences with other people carry valuable lessons for us which very often mirror a theme in our lives, normally to do with, I believe, something in ourselves we are here to learn or develop.

    For example, for a long while I kept attracting bullies into my life. Now, anyone who knows knows I am about as far from a bully as you can get. But these “bullies” were definitely there to teach me assertiveness – and not just any old assertiveness, but gently effective assertiveness which greatly enhanced who I am, even though it felt absolutely hellish at the time. It had to be painful to get my attention, to move me out of my old patterns.

    :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 11:46am

  66. 66: AlkahaleNo Gravatar says:

    Please help :(

    I feel like I’m sinking. I feel angry and stupid.

    I married a man that I found email and text messages to the mother of his child telling her he still loved her. He swore to me that the only reason he said it was because she have him a hard time with his daughter unless she thought he was still hung up on her.

    I married him and now I feel panic because I don’t trust him. When he goes to pick up his daughter now I feel insecure and extreme jealousy. I have a child that I moved to his school district and everything. I read all this stuff and I try to tell myself let him make his choices and all that but I feel like the only reason he is married to me and not her is because she didn’t want him anymore.
    I tried to break it off with him several times but he was relentless in telling me how much he loved me and couldn’t live without me.

    Oh my gosh I want to run now but I’ve married him and moved my daughter. I feel so afraid and overwhelmed.

    What do I do

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 11:57am

  67. 67: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa,

    Yay, those anxious, wondering feelings are great to sink into, send some calm, loving energy to yourself and just observe your own pattern. I’ve noticed it’s in doing that… sitting with my uncomfortable feelings and soothing myself, that I get to see the man more clearly.

    Remember men’s timelines are a bit different to ours, and even different men have different perceptions of time… give him a bit longer to get in touch with you :)

    x

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 11:58am

  68. 68: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    So… I had my date with the guy who took me to an expensive restaurant on Wednesday night, the one who said he’s wanted to ask me out for a long time and finally did (this is the same guy who said it was music to his ears that I like being spoilt).

    It was sublime. Mostly because he was such a gentleman throughout. He borrowed a beautiful car to come and pick me up, had booked the restaurant, specially chose delicious wine to compliment the food, took me for drinks before and after dinner, quietly and decisively paid the bill (which must have been pretty high), then brought me home and kissed me… but not in a full-on, groping way, in a sweet, gentlemanly way.

    I felt really comfortable with him too. Conversation was sincere, and also light hearted and bubbling. He complimented me sincerely in a way that really felt good and authentic – he told me I was the calmest, most chilled woman he’d met in years, which was such a healing thing for me to hear.

    Today he contacted me to ask me if I wanted to do something with him tomorrow night, to which I warmly replied yes, and he is going to phone me tomorrow with plans. This feels good.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 12:38pm

  69. 69: CrisNo Gravatar says:

    @Dominique thanks!

    @Indigo wow :-)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:01pm

  70. 70: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    Ah Indigo :) Based on the summarisation of one date I LOVE him! I Love him that he created such a ‘sublime’ experience – that sounds great and you so deserve it (we all do :)) – i’m feeling all girly and impish at the moment and i want to run on the spot with excitement that you had that experience x the telling of the story felt romantic and tender and it feels so very good to know that there are men that do dates like that x

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:10pm

  71. 71: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    oops second ‘him’ typo I love that he …

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:11pm

  72. 72: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo that feels amazing to read. I feel so happy hearing about your sublime date. Mmm and I like that word!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:22pm

  73. 73: Helena HartNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla – 61 – Ooh I LOVE these images, that’s amazing!!!

    Love, Helena

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 1:49pm

  74. 74: cupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa,

    What happened??? Oh, the suspense.

    I hope the reason you haven’t posted is that D showed up and you are having a wonderful time.

    Let us know!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:10pm

  75. 75: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – So awesome. :)

    xxoo

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:18pm

  76. 76: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    I feel strange.

    On the one hand, I can get the attention of young men. I can see the “stars in their eyes” when I flirt with them and talk with them.

    But when it comes to a quality guy my own age (or within my range), they don’t seem to even look twice at me. The men that aren’t attractive (physically run down in some way), seem to flock to me. And men older than me by 10 or more years seem to flock to me. I don’t want a man 10 years older than me (so far they have all looked their age, if not more).

    So on the one hand, I feel “worthy of better” and or “high quality”, yet on the other hand, it’s like I feel not good enough for quality that IS within my range (in fact, I feel invisible to them!).

    It feels nice to see the stars in these young guys’ eyes, but that doesn’t really get me anywhere. It’s just “well, that’s cute and feels nice”. There’s no substance to it and they don’t follow through in any way.

    Yes, okay, I don’t want a man that’s sedentary or who wears most of his weight in his waist. But I feel guilty about that, like I’m shallow and unworthy. T. is quite a nice man and is totally smitten with me. But I don’t even want to pick up the phone, because while he’s nice, he’s also slightly annoying and not attractive.

    Yet it wouldn’t feel nice to just tell him, “listen, I’m not into you. we could be friends. but don’t hold my hand or anything, please.”

    Both of these guys that I dated, I just felt SO uncomfortable when they touched me. I can’t even pin down why with T, except that he’s physically VERY unattractive. I don’t want to date him again because he’ll want to hold my hand and do normal, reasonable things like that. And it feels so uncomfortable to me.

    I feel immensely confused and I don’t know what to do here. I’d really enjoy having him as a friend, except that I think I’d always feel that subliminal “I want more” pressure from him.

    *sigh*

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:32pm

  77. 77: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Indigo Thanks!! I did.. and I finally was able to really be calm… I called him.. b/c I realized that with his phone off he didn’t know I called his phone wouldn’t alert him…

    He said how did you know I was just going to e-mail you, I just arrived at the hotel. He said “I didn’t want to interrupt your home schooling with E so I didn’t call.

    @Cupcake here is the update He is here.. I meet him at 8p…

    he drove 999 miles since last night at 9:15 straight through with a 45 min nap… to 3:15p today to have this date with me tonight!!! OMG!!!
    I’m almost in love with him already ( not really but feel like I could be)….. I cannot imagine a man wanting to keep a date with me that BAD… and not hurt my feelings by cancelling to drive 16 hrs almost non-stop to be with me… after his friends wake…

    and here 5mos ago I couldn’t fathom a man doing what Mercedes man did to keep her… and here now this guy did this!!!

    Now I have no idea what will happen when I see him tonight…and he is worried I won’t find him attractive ( he said he is prepared for me to reject him and that is ok) but I’m not that kind of woman.. I give men a shot whether or not I find them attractive in the beginning or not…

    I’m excited! and I’m glad I leaned in today and I’m glad that I allowed my anxiousness to go and my warm and peaceful feeling to come in before I called him… Well b/c for me leaning in is a big deal!!… I haven’t really ever been that much of a “leaning in kind of woman” … and so it feels really foreign when I do…

    Thanks for the support Cupcake and Indigo!!! <3

    I'm getting ready to find a killer outfit to wear for this man.

    OXOXOX

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:34pm

  78. 78: CrisNo Gravatar says:

    @Lisa wonderful!!! and so exciting

    all the best and enjoy!!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:39pm

  79. 79: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Sorry to vomit all over the replies here. :p

    I have a history of giving in. Of “giving it a chance” and having things turn out VERY badly. One ended up turning into a brutally violent man 2 weeks after we got married. There had been two incidents, but they hadn’t been huge and I’d dismissed them…

    I’ve had really great relationships, too. But even with my ex here, not long before my daughter was born, I had major misgivings and almost left. I changed my mind and I gave in and stayed… and look at me now.

    I feel like I am supposed to date him, anyway… say ‘yes’ to everything.

    But I feel sad. T seems like a really great guy. There weren’t “abuse” type red flags. And I’m pretty sure that he would do nearly anything to make me happy… and I suppose that this, in itself, makes him “quality”. And I would SO love to see him be happy!

    I just don’t want to be the person who does so. It all feels too rushed and pushy for me. I now associate driving all day on nasty roads with him… and feeling unheard about how much it was bothering me.

    I want to feel good about all of this, but it’s not just that there isn’t chemistry. It’s that I feel NEGATIVELY about both of these men, even while I am able to recognize that at least T is definitely a “make the woman happy” kind of man.

    I feel so lost and confused.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 2:43pm

  80. 80: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    (((( (((Shannon))) ))))

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:25pm

  81. 81: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Awesome Lisa enjoy your night :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 3:29pm

  82. 82: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Alkahale! Don’t JUMP!!!! Stay calm, stay cool, and do NOT let yourself get into an urgent crazy state over this. It is totally okay for him to “love” his ex. It doesn’t mean anything more than you need it to – and right now – you need it to mean NOTHING – so stay with THAT!!!! If you can get calm, and get into your feelings…and you may need some coaching help to do that – so call on one of my new Certified Coaches over in the sidebar…you can buy yourself some time to work this through. Words are SO cheap. They mean nothing, as so many women find out. This means words he says to his ex as well.

    The important thing is how he is with YOU. If, after a time, you still cannot love him, trust him, or you cannot feel okay with this one thing (and I think you surely can go in that direction instead of the direction you’re now spiraling down into) – THEN you’ll have the calm sense of what to do and how to do it. Please do not rush into any kind of judgment. Love, Rori

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:03pm

  83. 83: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I feel curious about the three day rule….

    I’m feeling so thankful that rori shared this post.
    I needed some clarity around this concept of drama.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 7:20pm

  84. 84: prplpsn28No Gravatar says:

    Just signing in. I can’t seem to keep up with the blog.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 8:04pm

  85. 85: CupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Hi, Sirens-

    I went on a CD tonight with a nice, funny guy who has a good job. I asked him how long he’s been internet dating and he said 15 years, on and off. I might have misunderstood, but it didn’t sound like there were ANY real relationships in that period of time.

    I’ll see him again, because he was good company and will make a nice companion in the rotation. I felt zero sexual interest in him, and in face the gay-dar spiked a few times. (He lives with his mother….)

    I did accomplish my goal of actually staying on the date with him, not going off in my head to somewhere else.

    Last night, I went to hear music with a girl I met here in the new city. I talked to Lord Voldemort on the phone before I went out, and it sort of threw me for a loop. I don’t know. He was lovely, and so familiar, and so like a stranger at the same time. Just some guy. He asked me why I was all dressed up, and when I told him I was going out to hear a band later, he asked a lot more questions about that, leaning forward, looking for clues through the camera. “Is that a new necklace?”

    I had to cut the call short to go meet my friend, and that got his attention, too. But it all felt weird, and I kind of wished I hadn’t talked to him, even though I enjoyed the call while it was happening.

    I kept having to re-focus myself while I was listening to the music. Saying to myself, I am here in New City, with my new friend J- listening to a band. Be here now. But while I was there I took out my phone and deleted everything Lord Voldemort related, just to be absolutely sure that I lean back. I may tell him I have to go back to no contact. I don’t know.

    As I said, last night, something shifted in me. I realized I really AM here, that this is where I am staying. That he’s not going to come and “rescue” me and take me back to his country, to the idyllic life we’d planned together. (Because his life is pretty darn idyllic, and I SOOOOOO wanted to be in it.)

    And the Universe gave me a gift, last night, because I after going to hear the band, my friend J- that I went with got a ride home with her bf, and I ended up giving a ride to a woman from out of town who I didn’t know- it was kind of random. Her hotel was on my way, so I said I’d drop her off.

    I’d never met her before, and will probably never meet her again, and I’m not entirely sure I got her name right when I was with her. But it was a gift from the Universe to talk to her in the car, because she said exactly the right thing.

    She asked how I’d ended up in New City, and I told her I’ve just been here a month and that I have only the vaguest of plans. I told her how I’d thought I was going to go be with Lord Voldemort, so being here all feels weird and unexpected.

    And when we pulled up in front of the hotel where she’s staying, she turned to me and said, “When I lived here, many years ago, I also sort of landed here unexpectedly. And I also didn’t know what I was doing here, and had somewhere else I would rather have been. But I found- and you will find- that something magical happens here. Like no other city, this place will heal you. It will lift you into its arms and carry you. It’s the most welcoming, non-judgmental city in the world, and when I left here- not because I wanted to but because other things happened that showed me it was just time to move on- I have never forgotten what a miracle it was to live here. I come back as often as I can, and I think about it every day. So don’t feel sad. It feels to me like you have come to the right place. Get a bicycle. Ride along the river. You will see what I mean. This city will lift you up and hold you in its arms. Like no other city could ever do.”

    It was exactly what I needed to here. spoken from a random woman I was giving a ride to as a favor.

    So I came home and cried. And am crying now.

    I miss you guys. I wish we were all in a big sorority house and could meet in the dining room at 10pm in our jim-jams for cookies and cocoa.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 8:13pm

  86. 86: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    ((((((((((((Cupcake)))))))))))))))

    You sound so feminine.

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 9:53pm

  87. 87: StarbrightNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, Cupcake what great synchronicity! Can you give an idea of what that New City is? Sounds ideal!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 9:59pm

  88. 88: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I practiced feeling messages tonight over text with a cd and remained warm and open….
    His reply made me feel soft and open ….

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:19pm

  89. 89: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I have been in the past angry and pining for cutecityCD but now I’ve moved on and leaning back totally…I leaned forward a few times and felt that his replies were polite pity texts just to reply…..
    I looked at him as practice anyway so it really is no loss to me…
    I’m more focused on me and my health journey….I am eating well and exercising more…
    Taking care of my hair and skin and tan :))
    And nas too… It changes how I carry myself…I’m more flowy and girly…

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:31pm

  90. 90: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Nails not nas …lol

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:34pm

  91. 91: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    kyla and sophie,

    Thank you my fellow sirens! :) (I want to say sisters, because I feel like I’ve shared my journey with all of you for so long!)

    It was truly lovely, and I also love the word and feeling “sublime”. But it was just such an eye-opening experience to me that, yes there are still men like that, and we have the power to inspire and require that kind of treatment, that romance :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:41pm

  92. 92: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Dominique xx

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:41pm

  93. 93: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    cupcake,

    I know sirens here have occasionally met up with each other when they’ve been in the same city…

    Personally, I would LOVE to have cookies and cocoa and meet you lovely women. I hope some of you will let me know if you’re ever in my sunny little corner in the South of Africa :)

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 10:55pm

  94. 94: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Regarding drama, yes it does come from a two year old helpless place of fear for me….
    I am reading and re reading this article to remember the concepts…drama is a habit that is not necessary and does not serve me…

    In fact roris tools have helped me stay on good terms with exoticCD who is now my friend and helped me land a job…
    He has been very very kind!

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 11:20pm

  95. 95: cupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo-

    What happened to / with Blue? Is he still in the rotation?

    Friday, 10 January 2014 @ 11:35pm

  96. 96: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Hi cupcake

    Thanks for asking! Blue is just about the loveliest guy I’ve met in a long time… and he wanted to pin me down into a relationship/exclusive couple fairly straight away. For him, this was completely natural, and we were spending so much close time together.

    Yet, I spent three years hopelessly hung up on a guy where I was put through the ringer of drama and confusion – it was very intense. I feel like, for quite a while, I want my life to be light and easy breezy and fun. I went out on Sunday night with a bunch of friends and was asked out – by the guy I mentioned above. And… I wanted to say yes. I knew, just knew, that if Blue found out about that, I would lose him not only in a romantic sense, but as a friend as well.

    I couldn’t bear to hurt him, or tie myself down that way, so I had a bit of a speech with him… making it all about me. That I didn’t feel like I could be a girlfriend and basically that I felt like he wanted that. And maybe in a couple of months, we could see where we were at. He was disappointed, but our friendship is still intact.

    :)

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 12:01am

  97. 97: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Sirens

    It seems like so long since I’ve been here and have missed so much. I don’t know if I’ll be able to catch up. It feels good to be here : )

    Christmas and up to New Years Eve was a mixture of getting sick and feeling really down about how things with BM are at a complete end. But on New Years day my friend posted a beautiful picture on my wall with a heartfelt message – it reminded me of how precious our friendship is. I replied with my feeling messages and it felt so easy and beautiful. I realised that I can do this with her because we have such a good relationship – an emotional depth is so possible and I can feel how much more there is to me when I communicate with her.

    I went to a bookstore (I love going there) and on my way there I could actually feel how healing it was to be in the presence of masculine men. I could feel that healing energy. Yessss!

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 12:30am

  98. 98: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Alkahale,

    Please remember that there are all kinds of love. I will probably always “love” my daughter’s father.

    But unless something dramatic changes, I doubt I’ll ever be IN LOVE with him again.

    I love my cat. I wouldn’t sleep with her, lol.
    I love my friend K. I wouldn’t sleep with her, either. :p

    Look at it as him trying to put his child first. I don’t know if you have any children, but our children are the people who are the ONLY THING that can keep us in contact with an ex much of the time.

    I’d never speak to mine again if it weren’t for our daughter. But now I feel FORCED to at least try to be friends with him.

    It’s hard when our minds are going nuts, but keep in mind Rori’s statements over and over again…

    It’s not his WORDS that show love, IT IS HIS ACTIONS.

    And who does he live with?

    Whose happiness is his priority?

    Who does he come home to?

    Who does he hug and kiss and hold and rock back and forth?

    Who does he argue with and then make love to?

    Focus on his actions. Words, as Rori mentioned above, are cheap. Does he treat you with love, or doesn’t he??

    Just out-girlie this other woman, as Rori states it. Be full-on girl. Because the last thing you want to have happen is for you to begin to lean forward due to your fears around four words that mean little if he’s single, and even less if he’s married to someone else (you).

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 5:07am

  99. 99: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Alkahale,

    I somewhat agree with Shannon.

    I have had my ex-husband tell me he still loves me. It means little or nothing to me though, as I know what he means… we were together a long time and shared a great deal, we will probably always have a certain place in each other’s hearts. But he is married, expecting a baby and we never see each other. He is very content with his current life. I would never in a million years think that him saying that would be a threat to his current wife.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 6:54am

  100. 100: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    Good Morning Sirens!

    I feel motivated! Downloading Rori’s programs this morning so I play them on my ipod, in my car, laptop and desktop! Feels exhilerating to have it all at my fingertips! I’m going back to Rori school!
    Woooooooooooooo

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 6:59am

  101. 101: LoveAlwaysNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve thought about it and drama for me is control . . . my need to control people, situations, thoughts, perceptions, outcomes. Being drama free for these past few months, in hindsight, has helped me to see that the drama was ME. Even in circular dating. I am a type A woman – my boy energy can really kick in and take over when necessary! Since finding Rori’s programs I’ve practiced letting my boy energy do what needs to be done so that my girl energy can flow. I have not perfected this, but the drama I’ve had has the common link of my trying to control something or someone one. I need to meditate on this more and re-read Rori’s article above. I feel good about this.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 7:11am

  102. 102: cupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Starbright #84

    I am in New Orleans.

    Cupcake

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 8:19am

  103. 103: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m feeling giddy about a dream I had of Bear last night where he was in the bath and I was talking to him, there was a large blue towel completely covering him and then he pulled me in for a hug and kiss which felt wonderful but I didn’t get wet from the bath water and then I got up and said goodbye. Curious. Anyone good at dream interpretation?

    Going to pamper myself in the shower now and do my hair and get ready for our date. We are going to a market, then an exhibit and then for dinner. I’m feeling stoked. I will have so many things around me to get interested in and share feelings about. His eyes widen when I share feeling messages and he steps that little bit closer to me with this goofy grin on his face, ahhh that feels blissful. Last night he also set up our next date to take me to see a movie I mentioned because he knows my schedule gets booked up fast and I need to organise sitters.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 9:27am

  104. 104: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    My date with “D” started out with him watching walk up the sidewalk and walked down me meet me…and big hug… he hugged me for so long… he was worried he was hurting me…everything was nice… most of the evening.

    He is very affectionate and just wanted to stare into my eyes… he touched me and I felt good about hand holding and such since we’d spoken on the phone almost daily for 20 days… practically, and I knew more than I usually would on a first date.

    He showed me his drivers license and it all felt so good… went dancing and that was fun… he is fun and energetic… makes me laugh….

    we slow danced even when there wasn’t music and so he doesn’t seem to have any inhibitions as most of the men I’ve dated… as far as caring what other people think..

    but when he was talking about a song Frank Zappa sings and the words coc..K S..ck was in it.. I was floored when he said those words and then I wondered why he brought that up.??.. later on his hand went almost to my butt and I quickly took it off, then I didn’t look at him for a long while he apologized and all….. keep saying he isn’t interested in sex right now…he was worried that, he had caused me hurt and all —- kept reassuring … and I was up front with him and said it took me back and put me off…

    had breakfast today with him, he made a comment about me eating two meals so I didn’t have to stop for lunch… said he was kidding…

    Then in the car when I was leaving he said the most versatile word in the English language is F,,ck…. we went from talking about me calling my children baby to he saying I might call him an a…hole one day… ( he keeps talking as if, I’m his girl friend already) and I said oh I don’t do that… than I said ok I have a few times used that term… then he said the F word was used in many formats… but I’m curious why even bring that up??? WHY?? Why go there…

    Ok so he has been told it makes me uncomfortable, he has been told that sex isn’t until later… and the comments today were just over the top… I’m not feeling good about going out with him tonight or tomorrow..

    I feel bad that he drove so far to see me, but I also know that he is doing this himself by not keeping his mouth in check and making comments… innuendos…

    I just don’t know how to get out of these dates with him… and let him go… and ME not feeling bad about it…

    strange that as soon as his mouth got bad and his hand on my butt, I stopped being attracted to him… but when he kisses me.. I have a reaction…and I’m not sure that is a good thing..

    Maybe I can just say, I feel very turned off by the sexual words and innuendos and I’m not feeling good about us going out anymore. How does that sound??

    OXOXO

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 10:50am

  105. 105: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    (((Lisa))) I feel disappointed for you – I was right there with you as you were telling in my own dating memory and the dipping feeling when a move is made or comments are made and its like wooo aahhhh i dont like that …

    I don’t know maybe something like ‘i’m feeling a bit awquard and uncomfortable. I know that you have driven all this way but i felt discouraged by… i didn’t feel good and I feel worried about tonight….what do you think?

    i’m not too great at speeches – do you want to give him a chance or just cut it off – if you want to give him a chance maybe ask what he thinks?

    xxx

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 11:13am

  106. 106: SophieNo Gravatar says:

    what was it that turned you off/made you feel uncomfortable about the sexual innuendos etc – maybe if you can be clear about that – to me it felt ick as I sensed (rightly or wrongly) an agenda but to someone else it may be they don’t like expletives etc or it doesn’t feel romantic … xxx

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 11:16am

  107. 107: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa, it sounds like a perfect time for feeling statements!

    “D, I am feeling very turned off. My standards for what I want in a relationship is to be treated like a Lady.”

    ” I don’t feel ready for sexual advances right now, and I don’t want men to swear in front of me. I feel awkward, and I don’t like vulgarity.”

    “I don’t feel good about going out tonight, in fact, I feel a little fearful. I really want to be treated like a lady. What do you think?”

    That’s the speech I would give, personally. I’d try to make my feelings known, and you know what? He’ll step up or he’ll step off.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 11:21am

  108. 108: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Shannon that sounds very powerful ! Thanks! <3

    XOXOX

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 11:26am

  109. 109: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    You’re most welcome. Fingers crossed for “stepping up”!

    Here’s something funny for you that relates directly.

    With T, he kissed me at a stop light. I told him, “I feel uncomfortable. I don’t feel ready for that yet.”

    I talked with him on the phone today. He said, “I’m still not sorry for kissing you at the stoplight. But I gotta tell you, your response was so perfect!”

    I think that men WANT to be held to standards. You know why? It tells them that YOU have standards! It says that you’re a high quality woman who isn’t desperate to be with him!

    Ya know?!

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 11:41am

  110. 110: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Shannon Yes, I get that and maybe that is why this is all happening …. I have the standards, but I don’t always remember to use the feeling messages…

    I’m not sure I want him to step up…. I think with the verbiage he was using was nothing short of locker room talk … and I have no tolerance for that stuff… it just turns me off in huge way.

    Plus a long distance relationship… you know!

    I’m not so attached that I can’t move on…

    Thanks so much for your support! <3

    OXOXO

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 12:48pm

  111. 111: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I have to admit I am not surprised. I am have learned to be radar high sensitive to men who seem to suggest that they are so into me before we meet. Nobody is perfect and when they come across as so perfect I am like “hhhmmm…I wonder what is wrong with you”. Maybe not the best way to be but I want them to prove themselves over time.

    I saw Shannon talk to LL on another thread saying telling a man that you feel turned on by something they do makes you irresistible. Saying something is a turn off might cause them to pull back. Maybe using those words and telling him who cringy you feel and tightened up on the inside might communicate your message. It seems to me you did not feel safe with this guy. Though I am not surprised that after driving all that distance and that long period that he is expecting some payoff. Men go through life to win.

    Then again the slow dance could have had him feeling turned on. I would tell him that I want to create a safe space where the man I am dating and I can have a back and forth conversation about sex as necessary. Also that sex is important to me in a relationship and I only want to go there with a man when I am in a committed relationship and we have built some history together. You don’t wont to do sex as a sport with a stranger you have only met once.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:00pm

  112. 112: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Not sure I’d say “I don’t like vulgarity” because he might take it as you criticizing him as in “you are vulgar” in a motherly or school marm type of persona.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:04pm

  113. 113: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    As a matter of fact I have gotten into the habit of saying “oops” in the moment with popping wide eyes/hand over ears and finding a way to duck out when those types of words fall off a new guy’s lip.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:06pm

  114. 114: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Shannon I think T felt challenged. Guys like the challenge. Also they do like women with standards. Especially when they are looking for girlfriend/marriage material. I believe they put a lot of thought into what they want in a woman who they want in their lives for the long haul. Especially when they are thinking about a mother for their kids. Quality guys I believe will want quality.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:16pm

  115. 115: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    As a matter of fact I have gotten into the habit of saying “oops” in the moment with popping wide eyes/hand over ears and finding a way to duck out when those types of words fall off a new guy’s lip.

    OMG, FW, I love this!!! :)

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:37pm

  116. 116: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Why do I feel like I don’t deserve to be, and am not good enough to be, with a man who’s both physically attractive to me, and ALSO wonderfully attentive and wants to please me?

    I can find all kinds of reasons. But are any of them really valid?

    Is it okay to want to be physically attracted, or is it just too much to ask for both attractiveness and loving/pleasing?

    I’m struggling with my view of T still. If I were at all attracted to him physically (or, at least not strongly turned off), I might feel like I’d met “the one”.

    We’ve had 1 date and talked on the phone. He’s already talking about getting an apartment and that he’s considering one in my town because he knows I wanted to keep my daughter in the town…

    He’s “all on board”, but I just feel very hung up on my lack of physical response to him. It’s a COMPLETE lack of physical response except for, “ugh”.

    This feels bad. (and I’m vomiting all over the thread again :p ).

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 1:44pm

  117. 117: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    103 Kyla

    *****a dream I had of Bear last night where he was in the bath and I was talking to him, there was a large blue towel completely covering him *****
    Your mind might have been reprocessing the expression “true blue man” recently read on this blog
    Either your mind was telling you “look, this is a clean true blue man”
    Or
    It is telling you “watch out, it seems relax and comfortable (hence in the bath) and blue, but it is only a cover” (the towel is blue, not him)

    *****then he pulled me in for a hug and kiss which felt wonderful but I didn’t get wet from the bath water *****
    Mr. Bear does not turn you on (you don’t get wet)

    *****then I got up and said goodbye*****
    You did not fall into the bath (sexual desire), you melted into the kiss, yet you got yourself back onto dry grounds.
    Your mind might have been reprocessing the memory that you wrote about in posts 273 and 280, on the “true blue man” thread.

    And it might have mixed it with the processing of the lack of intimate connection with Mr. Bear. He keeps his “blue cover”, he does his best to “get you” into his bath of desire, as softly as he can, but your state keeps unchanged (unwet). You appreciate his wanting you, it feels wonderful, but it does not move you to want him.

    Now, another reading would say that both characters are you.
    In this case, the part of you who does not want “to get wet” with no connection, does not let herself be pulled into the bath of desire by the part of you who bathes in it. Again, your mind might have been reprocessing what you wrote lately on this blog, about fighting your own desire during a date.

    xxx

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 2:19pm

  118. 118: janie babyNo Gravatar says:

    Hi sirens!!
    Hope you all are having a wonderful day :)
    I want to know opinions based on female energy/male energy//leaning forward and vice versa based on female friendships. This is my first time being single for 4.5 years since I was 18/19, and all my best girl friends I’ve had since I was younger (when our moms set up play dates). I want to be single for a while (at least several years) and will NOT be a girlfriend again until I feel the relationship is worth it.

    Anyway, so I have become friends with a girl, and I was wondering when is TOO much leaning forward. In friendships with other women, should we assume masculine energy as well? It feels weird for me to lean forward and ask her to do activities with me because I feel like the past week I’ve been the one setting the definite plans more so and being more enthusiastic about our new friendship. I realize that I’ve always had a boyfriend since end of high school so I’ve always leaned back more in all my relationships and let people come to me so I feel more comfortable leaning back and not putting pressure on anyone. However, I feel a real friendship connection to this girl but don’t want to scare her off. So would just like some other sirens’ feedback on this :)
    xx

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 2:26pm

  119. 119: ZaraNo Gravatar says:

    103 Kyla

    *****a dream I had of Bear last night where he was in the bath and I was talking to him, there was a large blue towel completely covering him *****
    Your mind might have been reprocessing the expression “true blue man” recently read on this blog
    Either your mind was telling you “look, this is a clean true blue man”
    Or
    It is telling you “watch out, it seems relax and comfortable (hence in the bath) and blue, but it is only a cover” (the towel is blue, not him)

    *****then he pulled me in for a hug and kiss which felt wonderful but I didn’t get wet from the bath water *****
    Mr. Bear does not turn you on (you don’t get wet)

    *****then I got up and said goodbye*****
    You did not fall into the bath (sexual desire), you melted into the kiss, yet you got yourself back onto dry grounds.
    Your mind might have been reprocessing the memory that you wrote about in posts 273 and 280, on the “true blue man” thread.

    And it might have mixed it with the processing of the lack of intimate connection with Mr. Bear. He keeps his blue cover, he does his best to “get you” into his bath of desire, as softly as he can, but your state keeps unchanged (unwet). You appreciate his wanting you, it feels wonderful, but it does not move you to want him.

    Now, another reading would say that both characters are you.
    In this case, the part of you who does not want “to get wet” with no connection, does not let herself be pulled into the bath of desire by the part of you who bathes in it. Again, your mind might have been reprocessing what you wrote lately on this blog, about fighting your own desire during a date.

    xxx

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 2:26pm

  120. 120: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    wow, Zara, amazing reading of Kyla’s dream! fascinating!!!

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 2:41pm

  121. 121: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been pondering, sifting, and am still unclear on this, can you ladies help me?

    I’m trying to establish the difference between having “no expectations” and having standards. Could “I want a relationship.” Be an expectation? My friend and I were talking last night and she said I need to stop caring about dating and what a man is after and focus on me. I said, but projecting an I don’t care attitude doesn’t mean I don’t care how I’m treated. How do you hold a more carefree attitude, with no investment in anyone but yourself and at the same have standards about how you are treated? And aren’t those standards the same as expectations? How is “I prefer talking on the phone” not the same as ” I want him to call me.” or “I expect men to call me.” I feel confused about this. :/

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 3:59pm

  122. 122: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    So, Millie, this is my take on the question.

    Let’s say that you are standing in a parking lot. On one side of the parking lot is Mac-r-cheeze restaurant, and on the other side is Up-r-crusteez restaurant.

    Your date says, “Say, are you hungry?”

    You reply, “Yes, I do feel hungry.”

    “Let’s go to Mac-r-cheeze!”

    “I don’t want to eat at a fast food restaurant. I want to take good care of my body.”

    Now. You’re open to eating with him. You’re open to any restaurant he wants to go to that’s not fast food. It doesn’t have to be Up-r-crusteez. He gets to say, “How about Less-crusteez, downtown?” if he can’t afford Up-r-crusteez.

    You aren’t saying, “I will dump you if you don’t take me to that fancy restaurant right over there.” You’re letting him decide what he can afford, but you are taking care of your body by choosing not to put trash in it.

    He MIGHT say Up-r-crusteez, but maybe he’ll take you somewhere middle-of-the-road. You’re just setting your boundaries (standards).

    “I don’t want to be sworn at.” That’s a boundary. It’s saying, “See that whole playground over there? All fine. But the dangerous sword fighting gauntlet over here? Nooo!”

    If you don’t like being texted (I hate it), then you’re not saying, “Don’t contact me.” You’re saying, “Not THIS way”.

    I’ll date you, yes… but don’t ask me to have sex with you on the first date, because FOR ME, that’s a big no-no.

    Date yes. Sex, maybe someday. Sex today? Not happening. So that’s what it’s all about. Trusting your boundaries and NOT allowing men to trample them. If he likes you and truly wants to please you, he’ll change the way he contacts you.

    If he doesn’t change the way he contacts you, he isn’t into pleasing you. And that means that at some point things are going to turn into hell in a handbasket.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 4:18pm

  123. 123: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Oh, and saying, “I don’t want a relationship where the man asks me out through text or email” is FINE!! There isn’t a dang thing wrong with that.

    Just remember to make it about the RELATIONSHIP. You’re telling him that, if he wants to be a relationship with you at some point… this IS the expectation. It’s your boundary.

    #1 of the Rori mantra is what??

    I trust my boundaries!

    You absolutely should expressly and explicitly state your boundaries. No doubt about it. If your friend is telling you to just go along with absolutely anything, then she is definitely NOT coming from Rori’s teachings.

    Rori’s teaching in the exact opposite. Have LOADS of fun, but within your boundaries. Always within your boundaries.

    The question of “don’t lead” isn’t about boundaries. It’s about deciding what restaurant you go to. It’s about not asking him to call you at this or that time. It’s about not taking care of him like he’s a child.

    You just tell him your boundary. “I don’t want to drive to our date.” Now he has to figure out how to get you to the date. If he sets a taxi up for you, and maybe you’re not big on taxis… you take the taxi as long as it’s not a “taxis aren’t safe” boundary. That’s you accepting that HE fixed the problem of getting you to the date.

    You were open to the date, that wasn’t the question. How you got there didn’t even matter, as long as it didn’t cross your “I do not drive myself there” boundary.

    You don’t try to steer the relationship towards a ring and a commitment. That’s his job. He steers the relationship. You just take care of your boundaries and be open to the rest.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 4:28pm

  124. 124: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    janie baby – 117 – You can lean forward all you want with women. If it starts to feel bad, i.e one sided, then find someone else to have fun with.

    xxoo

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 4:57pm

  125. 125: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Mille – 120 – have a look at this, and if you still feel confused, let me know.

    http://sexandheart.com/even-more-on-expectations/

    xxoo

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 5:00pm

  126. 126: CarrieNo Gravatar says:

    Love this post!!!

    Millie (120), I just read this about having high standards for yourself and how you want to be treated but still being soft on the outside.

    http://helenahartcoaching.com/inspire-his-masculine-need-to-win-you/

    ~Carrie

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 5:08pm

  127. 127: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Shannon 116. I know exactly what you mean.

    Stinky CD for me is THE GUY when it comes to taking care of me, treating me with tenderness and respect, always giving advance notice of his plans, always staying in contact, asking me out for dates and planning fun things for me and my girls, owns his own house, professional, my age.. etc… EVERYTHING that I want in a man except…

    the physical aspect. There is no physical attraction what ever from me. As a matter of fact there is physical repulsion.

    I finally told him the truth. His smell, his nose hairs, the way he eats, the way he comes off as physically weak, the sound of his voice.. high and whiny… ALL physical turn offs for me.

    I don’t know what will happen next. He hasn’t contacted me since I told him. I believe that he can turn himself around by taking care of himself physically. But that’s his job.

    And I finally realized that everything that he was doing for me, well, as wonderful as it felt, I can do it for myself. I’m in way way lean back mode.

    I’m also using this time to ask myself, where am I not taking care of myself physically?? Where am I not too impressed with my physical attractiveness? And I’m taking steps to remedy my own feelings about my own physical form and the way I feel about how attractive I am.

    Then, I’m just waiting to see what happens.

    Lean Back & Have Faith. : ) Either he will step or something better will come along.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 6:01pm

  128. 128: CarrieNo Gravatar says:

    Anrdrea (126), how did you tell him that? I’m in a similar situation, I’ve been dating a guy for a few months, he treats me SO wonderfully but he’s gained a considerable amount of weight in the last couple months. He’s such a great guy but I’m feeling VERY turned off since health and fitness are important to me. I’m not sure if I should say something or not, I don’t want to have to say anything about it but I’m not sure if I’ll ever feel turned on to him if he doesn’t lose the weight. Any ideas, anyone???

    ~Carrie

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 6:25pm

  129. 129: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea, I think its so interesting about your take on the Chef. When I heard your story and dynamic with your latest guy, my first reaction was why is she investing herself with someone like that?? What he did in your bathroom, and the fact that his personal hygiene is so poor, would have me running as fast as possible in the opposite direction. I wouldn’t give someone like that a second thought. To be honest, he sounds totally unappealing and my personal take is that you deserve so much more than that! So it just goes to show you that we are all different and whom we are drawn to and why is all so very interesting. And those men that show up are absolutely perfect for the lessons and progress that we are making in our own personal journeys.

    For me, I’m trying on new patterns. I’m contemplating a possible purely physical fling with someone and for me, there’s nothing wrong with that. Based on my year of chastity and zero sexual energy, it feels like I am coming alive again. I’m open to some pure fun and adventure with no expectations. My ultimate goal is to meet a quality man but they are rare so in the meantime, I’m open to having some fun including something purely lustful and sexual and no strings attached.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 7:03pm

  130. 130: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    Aurora – I liked those “rules” you shared in #23. Those make a lot of sense to me, too! Guys can play “games” as well as women, and it seems to me the same goes for both: be authentic and be aware of the other person as well. And with that, you can do pretty well…

    LL – I’m just glad the site isn’t called the “Three Date Rule”!! I did look it up, just to see it. I have no idea if what they offer is better than anything else. Looks like kind of a cross between matchmaking and internet dating. And if you want to try it, why not? : )

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 8:09pm

  131. 131: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Shannon–

    thank you for such a clear explanation. I do feel like I’m FINALLY getting what boundaries are to me and for me. It feels great to understand what they are and how I can apply them to the next guy..and the next guy…and the next guy….My friend was is no way suggesting I go along with everything, she just meant that I need to stop analyzing things and get out of my head and “not care” so much about defining things. I see what she means…but I felt confused about embedding your desires with your boundaries with expectations and goals. Anyway, I feel very clear on the subject of boundaries, thank you.

    Dominique–Yes this does clear up a lot! thank you, I can relate to those moments of feeling fear, anxiety, and apprehension. The most recent example of this feeling was when Mechanic asked me dinner and said he’d meet me there. There was a pang in my gut and I immediately did not want to go. I felt like there was no way I would be able to relax knowing that I wanted this to be a date and it wasn’t. I went anyway and while with him he suggested inviting another friend, a female. I felt another pang in my gut, and instead of VOICING that I was happy spending time just him and I, I said ok, because I didn’t want to reveal how interested in him I was, I didn’t want to reveal that I wanted this to be a date and it clearly wasn’t. I felt fear, anxiety, and apprehension. I was unable to truly enjoy the evening due to the fact that I wanted it to be a date and it clearly wasn’t. I wanted to just go home and escape. So…would that be considered “having expectations?” It could easily be an example of not voicing my boundaries and desires. I clammed up big time.

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 8:19pm

  132. 132: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    So I have to say, one of my favorite things about this blog is being able to “report” back after a date.

    And let me tell you – random thought – I feel like a dating ninja right now!!!

    I *did* have a date with the hot young guy tonight. [aka the same guy who had the "theme song" of "Toxic" come into my head every time I thought of him. Lol] So he showed up, right on time, drove an hour to see me. He was perfectly sweet and enthusiastic. But it was weird. He was at once seeming very forward and wanting to get intimate with me pretty fast (i.e. asking personal questions, I mean, not asking for sex), and also saying that he was shy. I even texted him yesterday that I didn’t feel comfortable having sex on a first date, and wanted not to set that expectation. He replied that he felt the same way and was “too shy” to have sex on a first date. And yet, he was very forward.

    When I first met him, and he came to pick me up, we hugged, which is fine. But he kind of stuck his chest out, as in, forcing my boobs to push up against him. I felt it and I didn’t really appreciate it. But I didn’t make a big deal, either, I just kind of noticed. Also, we first went to get drinks at a bar that I remember from a long time ago. And as we were sitting there talking, he put his hand on my thigh. I had to look at him and specifically request that he not do that, since I just met him. He said of course. But the thing is, he did that already. Like he totally thought that was okay. It makes me feel queasy to think about.

    Afterward, we went and saw a movie. He held the door for me, he paid for everything. A perfectly good date. Not complaints there. In fact, during the movie (which was very long), I was hungry and wanted to get some popcorn. I was totally going to pay for it myself, but he handed me his credit card to go and get it. So really, I can’t complain about any of that. But there was something about the touch.

    And he held my hand during the movie, and touched my neck, when I asked him to give me a massage. And afterward, in his car, he kissed me, and there was nothing technically wrong with it, I just felt kind of yuck about it. Like it was gross and I didn’t want him touching me and kissing me and all of that. I was having fun talking with him. And he was cute. Really, really cute! Oh, did I mention that he is five years younger than me? Yeah, there’s that. But really, that’s not a big issue for me right now. I would totally go out with a 28-year-old. In fact, I totally just did. But it just didn’t feel right.

    And so, when he drove me back to my place, it wasn’t even that late. I had some wine in the fridge, and I briefly considered offering to hang out with him some more. But I just really didn’t want to go down that road. I already knew everything I needed to know. So I told him, straight out, that I thought he was really, really cute, but that it just wasn’t going to work for me. He still wanted to kiss me after that, but I didn’t let him. I figured I would be better off just chilling on my own than making out with someone that I didn’t feel totally and 100% into making out with.

    So that’s what I did! And that is why I feel like a dating ninja. Because I let him do all the stuff, and I thanked him, and I totally appreciate that he was going out of his way for me. But in the end, my body was just telling me, “No, this doesn’t feel right.” And I went with that. And I put a smile on my face, and there was really no drama. None at all. At least, not for me. He might have felt disappointed, I’m sure. But it was a decision, not a reaction. And I feel good about it. And it makes me feel “high value.” Because I don’t *have* to make out with someone just because they are young and cute and happen to be right there, wanting to kiss me. If I don’t like it, then I don’t have to do it.

    Anyway, this is getting long. There is an addendum, but I’ll have to put it in a part two installment… ; )

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 8:25pm

  133. 133: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    Well, okay, here is the first part of the addendum to the Saturday date: HYG (hot young guy) has a new “theme song.” Well, it’s not really his, I guess. But since he dropped me off, and I’ve been alone in the house, I’ve had “safe and sound” going through my head. It actually was on the radio earlier, or we both heard it or something, and we each said how we like that song. So it wasn’t totally random. But it feels appropriate. I feel “safe and sound.” As in, I didn’t force or allow myself to do anything that I didn’t want to do. Which feels good.

    And…oh my goodness. I am just going to admit this here, because I almost can’t believe it myself, but I am *still* thinking of Lakeman. The better part of my brain knows it’s not going to work with him – he can’t commit and he doesn’t want kids. But there is also this: I am a physical person. We all are. But I am very “touch-oriented.” I.e. that is my main “love language,” and touch feels very strong with me. Even a light touch can communicate huge amounts of information to me, whether I like it or not. So it really matters to me, the quality of relationship that I have, on the physical level. I am just finding this out, as I go along…

    And on a side note, I was thinking about dating in a general sense today. And it’s such a weird thing. Because it is almost the only process you will go through where you get to determine what you want as you go along. I mean, you have to start out with some idea the end result. But really the details are a mystery. And filling that in is the hardest part. But anyway, I digress…

    Lakeman. He is still on my mind, even though he really shouldn’t be. Speaking of “drama,” that’s kind of his specialty. But it’s odd. With him, I can clearly see from the outside that the drama is all within him. The big deal that he made about not calling me when really he was the one who said he would call. I never asked him to call. Then he of course pointed the finger back and me and said it was “my fault” that he wasn’t calling, because of something that I wrote. Well, dude, if you didn’t like it, you never had to say that you were going to call me in the first place. Argh.

    I just know this: if I were sitting there, right next to him, this minute, I would be irresistible to him. Regardless of what I said or wrote, he would kissing me and pulling my clothes off in a matter of minutes. And you know what? I would be thoroughly enjoying it.

    Which is why all of this is making my head spin. Why am I chasing after “children.” I’m not really into it that way. I’m not going to go and get pregnant, just because. I’m not really looking for a baby-daddy. I am really looking for someone who loves me, first, and makes me feel really good, physically. I want to be with someone I can be comfortable with on a daily basis, whether I feel gross or happy or angry or sad or whatever, and it will all just come back to me being who I am, and totally still loved by this other person.

    I don’t know why, but Lakeman has a very special touch for me, and that feels good. I could be touched by him for the rest of my life, and that would be totally fine. I would love that. And my body would be so happy. And part of me is willing to say, hey, if I am happy, then isn’t that enough? Why do I need to add this other layer of “children”? Isn’t that just an excuse to not really get close to people, or to push them away? Because to me, really, the only way that I want children is for them to arise naturally, organically, out of an already fulfilling relationship. I want it to be a decision that I make with my partner. Which is not to say that my opinion doesn’t count. It’s just that, with the right partner, your voice is heard, and that person is involved, too. It takes both parties to be willing and to allow it and actively seek toward that. And that’s what I really want. I hate the image of a woman who is just trying to use a man to get her pregnant. I don’t want to be that woman. I want to have the full support and love of my partner. And you know what? If I can find love on this planet, I might still be happy if I never have children.

    I just want to put that out there. Because I am 33. The clock has by no means run out for me. But if, for some reason, I can’t have children, I don’t want to spend the rest of my life miserable because of that. I have to put my own happiness first. And I’m okay with that. All of it. I am just following my path….

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 8:51pm

  134. 134: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Ok reporting back….

    “D” contacted me this evening gently by e-mail… he KNEW he had put me off and he said, I feel like I’m making you uncomfortable…. and today you say my hyper compulsive side which I’d told you about… he ask that I call him when and if I felt like talking and he didn’t want to call me b/c I might be resting ( I went home today from out date with a horrible headache and neck pain) and he was right I was sleeping…

    So I sat with what Shannon said… and I waited for an answer…. the answer was to hear him out…

    and I called him, he said it again on the phone…and he wanted to spend time with me tonight and I ask if we could talk about it in person.

    So, tonight he was great! We talked about all kinds of things and he was more aware of boundaries… didn’t touch me or kiss me for a long while… we had a great conversation and I noticed my attraction for him started to come back.. amazing isn’t it…when a man treats me right, I get turned on and when he doesn’t I get turned off…

    so after comfortable conversation about other things… he brings it up… and I told him I get put off with that behavior and it triggers me… I said what you noticed about my behavior today is when I get put off ( when you act like that) and I withdraw and won’t want to be close… he said he noticed and I said and when you are like this ( treating me like this) this is how I feel and respond. He got it… He said it is ok if you react to me withdrawing and all… I said, yes I know…and thanks for acknowledging it…

    I explained that I don’t like it when men say things that are sexually explicit and that it has and can cause me to leave….

    then after we talked he felt more close to me, and held my hand.. then put his arm around me and we had a long moment of just ummmm check to check and my head on his chest… and then the connection grew and I was more tingly and warm… and the kisses were so gentle and soft and yummy…

    I think maybe he just also is confused about me allowing him to touch me, and how he might interpret that as me wanting more… which I explained isn’t the case… just b/c I allow him to gently rub my back up and down … and caress my face… and hair… doesn’t mean I’m ready for more…. he gets it now …. we haven’t even been to second base yet… no french kissing..

    I have to say that he listens to me, and responds…. which is amazing for me since even with “S” he just paused and was aloof and then went back to telling me about “him”…

    at least I’m closer to what I want…

    and “D” is more interested in my passions, my interests and my dreams than any man so far…

    I think what part is hard is we spent dozens of hours talking on the phone before actually going on a date and it has really confused things.. on one hand I already felt like I knew him and on the other hand, I wasn’t used to the physically there part yet… so part of me is already feeling safe and ready and part of me isn’t…

    I’m not sure I can or want to deal with his hyper compulsive side blurting out things… but only time will tell……I suppose…

    I set a boundary tonight… that good healthy non sexual touch feels good to me, and sexual remarks and discussion isn’t ok with me…

    I’m feeling good now…and last night I felt rushed and pushed…

    I’m learning so much about me…it’s nice..

    OXOXOX

    Saturday, 11 January 2014 @ 10:05pm

  135. 135: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Janie baby,

    Leaning forward is perfectly acceptable in female friendships, even for long periods of time.

    I find that in the best friendships, though, there is a flow – a back and forth of initiating contact and plans. You don’t have to worry about being in masculine energy with female friends, but if it starts to feel bad, that’s a good time to experiment with leaning back a bit.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 12:14am

  136. 136: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light,

    I fully hear you about coming alive again sexually and having fun… I did that very thing last night.

    Expensive restaurant guy, I will call him B, took me out for a fun night last night with a bunch of our friends and he was just so gentlemanly and attentive and affectionate and striking just the right note and I felt myself opening up and warming to him… and it’s been so long that I’ve felt desirous of having sex with anyone who wasn’t D, that I allowed it to happen. And it was warm and sweet and wonderful and I have no regrets.

    Be careful though of thinking quality guys are rare… I am finding they are coming out of the woodwork left, right and centre.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 12:25am

  137. 137: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    This is just a vent, but I went out tonight….Had a great time. Feeling a bit exhausted about all the sifting and thinking and processing I’ve been doing about boundaries and who I am and what I’m doing. I just felt this overwhelming exhale through my body of..forget everything…I just want to have fun….fun.

    I’m not saying I’m giving up or changing anything, I’m just giving a deep exhale.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 2:51am

  138. 138: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Shannon 116,

    What I’ve found is that the more I heal those parts of myself that question whether I “deserve” someone who is both good to me and physically attractive to me, whether I have a “right” to my heart’s desire, the more I heal the voice which wants to second guess how I *really* feel around a guy, the more I love myself and just come into a full belief of my own worth…

    The more men who treat me wonderfully and are also physically attractive to me, show up.

    I have to wonder, reading your post, whether you might think you’re “selfish” for wanting physical attraction? Is there some part of you that feels ungrateful because he’s good to you? You do have every right to be highly physically attracted to your man. Our romantic relationships are unique in that way. It’s what differentiates it from other kinds of love, I feel.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 3:33am

  139. 139: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    127 Tereana
    yeah the “adjusted” “rules” (I like to call them guidelines) feel way better to me too. So I experimented with them this week. :)

    I had written earlier this week that since Monday I hadn’t heard from my latest CD (I’ll call him LG for “local guy” and “life is good” because he is an optimist! yay!) and I was tempted to email or text him by Wednesday. I knew I was acting out of anxiousness. So I got on this blog and wrote about it and that helped me wait it out. By Friday afternoon I thought that I’d send him a “how has your week been” text for fun (keeping it light, short, sweet). lol he texted me back right away with a photo of his hand reaching into the engine of his truck, which he had been working on since Tuesday, trying to get some adjustments made. I mentioned a thank you again for last week and said I’d love to catch up again when he had time, and if not that was ok too. I felt good about my response, tried for it to be a lean in but mostly relax and lean back too and it felt good. He texted me again yesterday saying he was still working on his truck and invited me to drop by if I wanted to because I had said I thought what he was doing was cool. ( I use to hang around my dad when I was little when he did odd jobs and auto work) I told him I had some things to take care of but could drop by in a couple hours (didn’t rush there). We joked a bit in the texting and it felt good to drop in. I brought coffee for us and he was happy and appreciative and gave me a lovely kiss.

    I was happy that my “rules” about contact felt like they could soften and let me use my own radar about how I felt and the give and take could be part of it. I am trying to mirror back to him what he does that I like and let him lead. I also had a big revelation that LG will feel different for me because he is local and my last three relationships were long distance. That was a big reveal to me.

    I told myself I wouldn’t stay long and after an hour of chatting, helping a little (you know, “could you grab me that wrench”….) and joking around a little, when a lull evolved I thanked him and said I needed to head out. lol after all I had entered the “man cave” and well……guys are guys in the man cave (greasy hands, country music playing on the radio, the odd swear lol……and I like the visual of him dressed up when we went for coffee last week :) fun to see both sides ) He gave me another lovely kiss and thanked me again for he coffee. It was simple and fun and felt good.

    xo
    Aurora

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 4:08am

  140. 140: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    133 Indigo
    yay you! for your opening and letting yourself experience warmth and sweetness from a good man.

    I agree with you..I feel so much lighter and happier when I connect with “there are plenty of good men out there” my heart knows …..its dynamic and always changing….there is no such thing as a static set number of elusive good men to meet….they are all works in progress and coming in and out of the woodwork…..lol and so are we! :)

    xo
    Aurora

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 4:32am

  141. 141: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Aurora,

    Thanks! And yay! :)

    I like it when I have an abundance mentality

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 5:23am

  142. 142: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    125- Andrea

    Thank you. You just gave me the courage to tell T the truth about why I feel so against setting another date. I truly don’t want to drive on a date. I seriously, strongly don’t. And I do feel like he’s rushing things. And it turns me off that he doesn’t take care of his body. It conjures up pictures in my mind of going home from the gym in 20 years and changing a bedpan. Ugh.

    128 – Millie

    You’re welcome. And in answer to what you asked Dominique, I would say this to you… and please bear with me here…

    First, you didn’t establish your boundaries. You do NOT want him for a friend. I suggest that you practice this one simple statement, and next time he asks you out, say it, and ONLY IT (because it will take courage for you to do so). “I don’t want to be just friends with you.”

    Yes, you have expectations. You wanted a date, and you didn’t get it. But you see, in this case, you’re also not setting boundaries. Your boundary with this guy is actually that you don’t want to be JUST FRIENDS. You don’t.

    So you set your boundary. “I don’t want to be just friends with you.” Period. End of your work. You just did your job. “Well, what do you want me to do about it?” “I DON’T KNOW.” What he wants to do about it is HIS JOB.

    Your job is to screw up your courage and speak your truth. What he does with it is HIS JOB and that’s where the expectation comes in… you let him do his job of either saying, “Good, so come out with me Saturday night.” And that’s him steering the relationship. If he still says, “let’s go out,” then he’s doing it with full awareness. PERIOD.

    The way that your current treatment of this situation is an expectation, though, is that you EXPECT him to just read your mind and dum dum dum, KNOW… what your boundaries are. He can’t. It’s impossible.

    So that’s your ONLY job here for this phase of things. Speak your boundary. “I don’t want to be just friends with you.” So he either says he doesn’t feel the same, or he says, “yeah, so, let’s go out”.

    You are never going to know, as long as you are taking his crumbs. Accepting friendship when you want a passionate love, is taking crumbs. It’s ignoring your boundaries and THAT is why you don’t feel safe, and why you feel bad. It’s what YOU are doing–ignoring your own boundaries.

    The expectation is that he’ll figure it out. There will be an issue here and bad feelings as long as you ignore your boundary. Because it’s something that’s happening inside of YOU.

    Your fear of rejection is causing you to accept crumbs, and of course, that feels horrible because simply put, it isn’t enough. It never will be… and you can’t mourn and move on as long as you don’t KNOW… you CERTAINLY can’t have the passionate love with him that you want as long as you allow “ignorance is bliss” to be his mantra towards you.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 7:34am

  143. 143: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    135 – Indigo

    Thank you. I feel so grateful that you posted that to me.

    I am going to sit in a bath with this and just let myself feel whatever comes up for me through it.

    I don’t know if I feel selfish or not. I will search myself and see. I do know I feel unworthy because I have always struggled with finances in the past, and because even now I am resisting getting an official job because I want to focus on my writing and succeed at that.

    I feel like I’m supposed to stop resisting getting a job, but the whole idea of getting one again just fills me with unspeakable dread. I feel like if I get a job, I’ll lose everything I want. It feels literally completely like giving up my dream of being a successful author.

    Yet at the same time, not having an official job feels like I’m not worthy… if I were worthy, I’d be making money at this thing already, etc. etc.

    I’ll sit down with all of this and see how it all feels and if I can cope with just letting my “nasty voice” be without resistance or acceptance of the message.

    This feels hard!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:54am

  144. 144: kylaNo Gravatar says:

    Zara thank you so so much for your advice on my dream. Wow I love that! I was nodding at each line, wow.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 9:30am

  145. 145: CupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Sirens-

    I have a coffee date at 2 this afternoon. I feel utterly unenthusiastic about it.

    It’s an OKCupid guy who, from his profile, comes off as a beta-male. But he said he’d like to get together, and I said okay, and then he wrote. “Tell me when and where, and I’ll be there!”

    (Groan.)

    I said, “Let’s say Sunday afternoon, and in neighborhood XYZ. I’d feel more comfortable if you choose where. I’m not familiar with the area.”

    So he sent me the links to two places and told me to choose. And to tell him what time on Sunday afternoon.

    Beta-men….I am never sexually attracted to Beta-men. They give me the heebie-jeebies.

    I should abide by my boundary of never going out with someone who answers “Ask me later…it’s private” (or similar) to the OKCupid profile question “What is the most private thing that you are willing to admit?”

    If they can’t note the part about “that you are willing to admit” and/or they can’t come up with a joke, we are not going to get along.

    But I hear Rori in my head saying, “Keep your heart open to everyone,” so I said yes. And maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I just feel annoyed with myself because I forgot the gym closes early today, and because of this coffee date, I won’t get there today.

    I envy you Sirens who are going out with men and getting held. It would feel really nice to have a man’s arms around me.

    One of my exboyfriends from 25 years ago lives in this city. He’s my Facebook friend. We’ve kept loosely in touch through the years(birthdays, lunch once when I was passing through where he lived then). I told him I was coming here and it would feel nice to see him, and he didn’t follow up, so I’m leaving it alone.

    I have a daydream, though, of running into him in the grocery store or on the street. I don’t think I’d want to date him again– he’s very quirky- but it would be so nice to see someone I know that well. (I went out with him for 5 years, from 23 to 28.)

    It would be nice to see someone I know that well IN GENERAL, but especially nice to see someone who might actually give me a long, lingering hug.

    Maybe the Beta-man will cancel. That would be great!

    Except he probably doesn’t have the nerve to. :(

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 9:52am

  146. 146: kylaNo Gravatar says:

    So date yesterday with bear was amazing. I felt completely spoilt and he was such a gentleman, pulling out my chair, taking my coat, carrying my things for me. The exhibit was amazing and I was totally absorbed by all the beauty around me and I felt sooo good being with him. He paid for everything all day and evening and then insisted on getting me a taxi and took it with me so he could make sure I got home safe. He kissed me a few times, held my hand and never once made me feel like he was expecting more than that. I felt curious about him, if I was searching for flaws he talks really loud and his hand gestures are really big, no red flags at all or triggers or bad feelings around him. I really feel good spending time with him and I’m feeling very “maybe” which is good. There wasn’t a moment about our date that felt weird and I felt floaty and happy and warm and a bit gooey too.

    He is all future talk already and it fees good to have his attention and know he’s serious. I will definitely keep him in my rotation, I like him very much.

    So DrWho text yesterday before I left for my date, haven’t heard from him since NYE and he was all apologetic about being caught up in work was going to see a movie (another one I want to see) last night would love my company for the evening and to have dinner too and apologetic about the late notice, it was a really sweet text. I replied I feel happy to hear from you, that would feel fun and I feel disappointed as I have plans tonight. It would feel good to see you another night. What do you think? And he suddenly called and stepped up big time, suggested 3 different days, gave me all the options for times at the local theatres, confirmed everything, arranged a time to pick me up, was asking lots of questions about how I’ve been etc, I cut the call short as I was going out.

    One thing I felt amused and happy when he said “so I feel X theatre makes the most sense, what do you think?” lol he was using my phrasing back on me, really felt like he was trying hard to get my attention and keying into what I was saying. I feel curious to see whether this guy as the ability to move forward or not.

    Ok so thats my update on my 2 CDs, really need to add another CD soon but there are no other potential suitors at the moment. Going to read back and catch up on the posts.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:06am

  147. 147: AngelNo Gravatar says:

    “as a woman, you are an emotional creature”

    At this I got the shivers. And at the bottom of it is, I believe, that I don’t feel like an emotional creature. When I’m alone, I have them, I feel them, I react. But when I’m with others I feel totally disconnected from my feelings. I still have fun and I love being with friends, but afterwards I’m often exhausted as if I’ve done hard work.
    This also shows when guys are around, apparently last time I was at a party a guy I know (been on a few dates) was really putting the moves on me, hand on my shoulder, behind my chair etc. I didn’t notice it! Seriously, ladies, I did not notice a thing! (Everybody else did though, so apparently he wasn’t discreet..) I had a great time, we all talked a lot and it was fun, but somehow I seem to live so inside my head, that I’m not really present. I like what’s in my head, especially as we were talking about movies and books that I love, but I’d also love to notice and feel in the present moment. Getting out of my head and inside my body seem to be the hardest thing for me.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:19am

  148. 148: kylaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa I feel so happy reading about the turn around in your date. Yay!

    Cupcake I hope your coffee date today is good.

    Love and hugs to all the sirens here. I feel inspired and happy hearing about your experiences. This is such a lovely place to be.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:20am

  149. 149: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    139 Shannon–

    I hear you! I agree completely that I did not establish any boundaries up front with this man. And I agree that accepting friendship could be perceived as accepting crumbs, however, in this case..I’m choosing not to venture down the passionate love road with him due to his age and the fact he already told me he’s not on the path of dating, gf, marriage. He already told me! I feel like if I’m making a conscious choice that “we are just friends” then that is me setting boundaries.

    However, I also see your point that he’s not a mind reader and how does he know what I want if I don’t state it? I already told him I don’t want friends with benefits and we had a conversation about dating where he DID NOT say that he wanted to date me. I felt like if he wanted that, he would have expressed it. Yes, I’m afraid of rejection, I feel I’ve already been rejected by him. I’m not sure I have the confidence and the openness to risk everything at this point…but I will think about it.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:26am

  150. 150: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla, Thanks for the update about your date. I was so curious. I’m glad that it went so well! That is so inspiring! :)

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:28am

  151. 151: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    On another note, this CD I haven’t heard from in a month texted me and said “hope to hang soon” and “miss ya”

    Huh? I feel confused. I’m not sure what to respond. I want to tell him to man up and ask me out, but if it doesn’t come from him, I don’t want to see him. After a month of no contact, I’m over it. And the lack of “I” statements in his text make me feel like he’s being super casual. And the word…hang. I hate it. Sorry to be taking apart this guys words, but when I read that, I felt annoyed and not sure how to respond. Any suggestions? I like the guy, I would have continued to see him had he not dropped the ball. But ball has been dropped.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:31am

  152. 152: kylaNo Gravatar says:

    Looks like he’s making some sort of effort to pick the ball up Millie. Maybe a simple Hi I feel happy to hear from you and it would feel good to go out with you – and then just see what he does next? Lots of guys use hang even when they’re arranging a proper date as they don’t want to sound too formal, I agree its annoying but I never use the word at all and they usually drop it.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:50am

  153. 153: kylaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Liquid Light!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:51am

  154. 154: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    I asked him if hang out meant as friends to him. He said he wanted to hang out like before…

    I replied saying that I had a lot of fun with him, but am at this point where I want to date the old-fashioned way and when a man says “lets hang out,” to me that sounds like he is looking for friendship.

    He said he understood and that it was bad timing before since he was leaving on a trip, but that he’d like to see me again.

    so we will see what happens…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 11:32am

  155. 155: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I want to take a break from the one dating site (OkC) that I’m using, try another while CDing myself out there in the world. OkC is just feeling a little dry for me and I’m feeling a bit tired of it. I’m feeling frustrated too with dealing with men who can’t set up a date – I know later that I’ll find it hilarious, but right now it’s as though not much came of the experience, not real CDing experience.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 11:42am

  156. 156: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Veronica, have you tried POF or match?

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 11:59am

  157. 157: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Millie – 128 – From what you’re saying here, it seems to me you wanted a date with him, but he was clear upfront it wasn’t. And you continued to concede to him without speaking up. I don’t even know that this would be boundaries, could be depending on how you look at this. I see it more as you not speaking up for yourself, telling him – I don’t feel comfortable with… I don ‘t want…. It would feel better to go home now…..

    Expectations would look like in it’s most simple form, you having your heart set on the red on, but he bought you the purple one, so you feel let down, bad.

    The more open and going with the flow you can be as well as being clear on what does and does not feel good to you as you go, the better off you will feel, and likely the safer he will feel with you.

    xxoo

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 12:22pm

  158. 158: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo – 133 – This feels so lovely to read. :)
    xxoo

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 12:37pm

  159. 159: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Millie, I hear you SAYING that you’ve accepted no romance with him…

    But I hear you not feeling okay about that at all. If you didn’t want something more, another person chaperoning wouldn’t have mattered.

    Your words are not matching your feeling state, from my viewpoint as an observer.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 12:42pm

  160. 160: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    LL – So I was just reading back on the last thread, with the whole saga of the chef man. What happened with that? It sounded to me like not a good bet. In fact, this guys sounds like a total narcissist. He may have given you an “out” with the “we could just be friends” line, but the fact that he wants you to come to him on the first time meeting him, plus the fact that he thinks he is G-d’s Gift to Humanity because he can cook (like he’s the only one) just shows his distorted self view. He’s just looking for you to play into his worldview where he is the dominant master who “pleases people” and you get the “honor” of being pleased by him. But this doesn’t really help you. It helps HIM (to feel even better about himself). Yeah, that line about how he’s a “real chef who makes people happy” and you’d have a hard time doing better? Ew! Head for the hills, I say. Making excuses to yourself about how it would be “just a fling” and “just for fun” (and, girl, I have so been there) is just actually playing into his little game and it’s exactly the kind of response he’s looking for. And in the end, you will LOSE, because you probably WILL end up liking him, and then he will drop you like a used rag without even thinking twice about it.

    I know chefs, because I used to be a waitress. They are not all the same, but having a giant ego and a little narcissism is kind of part of the job. They need to be the one in charge, running the kitchen. He’s taking this attitude outside of work and into his personal life. He just doesn’t sound like what you want, based on what you describe. I hope you didn’t go to meet him. : / And I don’t want to be overly mother-y, either, but take care of yourself. Trust your intuitions. Don’t talk YOURSELF into doing anything just because it “seems fun.” Especially if you already know it’s not what you want. Because you’d have a better time not seeing him, and then focusing on having fun with someone who actually IS fun for you :)

    Anyway, I hope it all worked out…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 1:22pm

  161. 161: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Carrie! This is Rose Cole’s exact story – go to her site and see if you can ask her there – if not – it’s simple – she said to him straight-out exactly what you say to us here (change the words so you’re speaking to HIM): He (you can say “you” here…) treats me SO wonderfully but he’s gained a considerable amount of weight in the last couple months. He’s such a great guy but I’m feeling VERY turned off since health and fitness are important to me. I’m not sure if I should say something or not, I don’t want to have to say anything about it but I’m not sure if I’ll ever feel turned on to him if he doesn’t lose the weight. Any ideas…?

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 1:24pm

  162. 162: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Carrie, I’m so glad you found Helena Hart – she’s awesome. I’ll get her over here to comment and weigh in. Love, Rori

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 1:28pm

  163. 163: AuroraNo Gravatar says:

    142 Cupcake

    yes….keep your heart open……

    here’s another take on Beta Males….(source urban dictionary)

    “betas are wingmen, collaborative and conciliatory. In human terms, betas make the best mates. They do more in the house, and probably in the bedroom, because they know how to hasten the greater good. The beta has poetry in him, and a touch of youthful idealism. He’s sure of who he is, and not constantly trying to prove his value in materialistic terms. (Alpha: Your expensive car doesn’t make you interesting.) The beta can earn a lot of money, or a little, but the money’s not the thing; he profits because he works well with others. There’s something rebellious about the beta male; he challenges the social order rather than succumbing to it. The beta male doesn’t buy in to the basest stereotypes about male behavior, and that’s hugely sexy. You see him and wonder: “That guy is so unassuming, affable and genuine. I wonder if he’s a Beta Male.”

    pretty cool take on it isn’t it?

    xo Aurora

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 1:33pm

  164. 164: CarrieNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, thanks Rori for weighing in on this!!!!! I will check out Rose Cole. The thought of being so direct with him feels a little scary because I’m the type of person who doesn’t like to rock the boat or possibly hurt anyone’s feelings. This will be good practice for me.

    Yes, I’m glad I found Helena Hart too! I had a free consultation with her and she was amazing, she helped me SO much in such a short period of time! Thanks again Rori!!!

    ~Carrie

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 2:20pm

  165. 165: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Well, I just got propositioned for “some fun” by a very attractive 35 year old guy. Well, maybe–if he looks anything like his photos. :p

    For a few minutes, I felt extremely flattered, but it quickly became clear he only wanted one thing… and I still feel flattered, but also turned off, lol.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 5:10pm

  166. 166: CupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Hi, Sirens-

    I went for coffee with the Beta-man.

    There was something about him– I guess the guilelessness of a golden retriever, and the eagerness to please, that felt very endearing.

    That said, his OKC profile photo is a good 15 years old, and he was wearing a toupee that retained its original color while the hair on his head turned gray.

    I kept thinking, “Bless his heart.”

    It wasn’t a match. He said really all he is looking for is someone to watch TV with. He wants someone to bring into his comfortable couch potato life- and you know what? When he finds that person, I’ll bet they have a lovely time together. It wasn’t a good fit for me, though. I kept thinking he needs more of a motherly “church lady” type, and that’s not me. Not that it’s for me to say who he needs. That’s just how it felt to me.

    I succeeded in my goal of staying in the room with him, not mentally checking out. And at the end I said, “Although I’ve enjoyed meeting you, this doesn’t feel like a match.” I explained, as gently as I could.

    I was fine until I was driving away, and then I missed Lord Voldemort sooo much. That whole relationship was about looking at the world together, exploring things. We talked about EVERYTHING, we wanted to see everything. I felt really sad, wondering if most guys just want someone to watch TV with like Beta-man. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!) And I know that’s not the case, but I am just saying I felt sad as I was heading home.

    So I went for a drive through a big park, and watched people out walking around, flying a kite, somebody in a canoe. I felt really lonely. I actually texted the guy who showed up drunk on the date because I was in his ‘hood. (He keeps sending me hysterically funny messages on OKCupid, but I really don’t want him for the CD rotation because of the drinking.)

    And then I went to the grocery store and before I got out I sat in the parking lot and felt really blue. I looked on OKC on my phone and there was a really sweet message from a guy in Lord Voldemort’s country who said, “I’ve read hundreds of profiles on this site, and of them all, yours is the one I would choose to marry.”

    He didn’t seem to want to engage in a dialogue or anything. He wished me well and said I’m beautiful and he hopes I find what I am looking for.

    And I sat there in the grocery store parking lot and cried. It felt really nice to read that SOMEONE in Lord Voldemort’s country would want to marry me– or more precisely, marry my OKCupid profile. Although technically speaking, I guess it was the profile Lord Voldemort was infatuated with, too. Not me, the real, imperfect girl with thighs that jiggle.

    Darn it. How did he get mentioned again? The whole reason I call him Lord Voldemort is because he’s “He who must not be named.”

    I read in Pat Allen’s “Getting To ‘I Do’” that we should make the commitment to the relationship we want, not to the man we want. I remind myself of that.

    I think for me the really hard part is, here I am in a new city where I know so few people. No job, no real plans. It’s all so utterly up in the air. And if you asked me, not just now but at any time in my life, what my perfect life would be like, it would be so exactly what Lord Voldemort’s life is like. He lives in the house I would choose; he does the activities I would choose. He eats the way I eat– nothing processed. He drives a car I would drive. He thinks about things the way I think about them.

    So it’s not just walking away from a man, it’s walking away from this vision that was exactly what I always wanted. He even looks exactly like my ideal man would look.

    If you factor in that– all of that which IS NOT my life, which was a beautiful daydream and IS NOT my life, IS NOT what’s going on around me– then you’ll see what remarkable progress it is for me to be able to sit through a coffee date with a man wearing a red toupee on a salt-and-pepper head, and STAY IN THE ROOM, and BE OPEN AND PRESENT.

    So I’m going to pat myself on the back for that progress. That’s two dates in a row where I haven’t gone mentally telescoping to find Lord V. in the energetic ether. Two dates in a row where I stayed in the room.

    I’ll let that be the takeaway from today. Not the fact that I sat in the parking lot of a supermarket and cried because he doesn’t love me.

    Tomorrow is a dinner date with an Alpha male lawyer who sounds sexy on the phone and IS GOING TO PICK ME UP for the date. First guy that has offered to do that!

    Thanks for listening. Onwards and upwards, eh?

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 5:19pm

  167. 167: LuzydelNo Gravatar says:

    I was cleaning my closet today…I had so much stuff I no longer use. Some things do not go with who I am now, but I kept them. I guess I didn’t want to go over them until now. I want to get me new nice clothing, more mature, simple and sophisticated. I am getting rid of the clutter in my place. I want to receive my 40th birthday in march with the space for new things… I am also getting rid of my inner clutter, that one is a littler harder to clear up…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 5:23pm

  168. 168: CupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    #162 Aurora

    Re: the Beta male…

    I see your point, and one of my girlfriends is with a man who was Beta in their early relationship and yet has, as he’s become confident of her love, stepped up and is a very protective, masculine partner– which I never expected to see.

    It’s just that I like having someone around who’s in charge. It makes me feel safe. My father was a strong, generous Alpha who was an unending source of unconditional love. And I’m such a Beta, who kind of resents having to put on my Boy Energy to go forth in the world to seek my fortune. And I’m just not good at it. I like being directed. That’s why I am an Executive Assistant, not an Executive. (When I’m working, that is….)

    I used to have this fabulous gay guy as a boss. He was not only a CEO, he was a Leo– and that’s about as Alpha as they come! He would take me to these amazing restaurants for lunch, and I’d say, “Just order for me, please.”

    He’d puff up a little and make a show of picking out things he knew I’d like. And I LOVED that. I felt so taken care of, And he seemed to like it too. That was a symbiosis that worked. (I emailed him the other day and asked if he has a job for me these days. He lives on a sunny island now, a place full of villas and sea views. I would so go.)

    Anyway. I’m just saying that I agree with you that the Beta has something to offer. Not so much to mega-Betas like me, though.

    There’s a Far Side cartoon of a cocktail party, where the guests are a flock of sheep standing up on two legs. In the background, you see the front door is open and a black and white dog is standing there, also on two legs.

    A sheep in the foreground (wearing a string of pearls for the party) says, “Oh thank Heavens! The border collie has finally arrived! At last we’ll all know where to stand!”

    That’s me. (Funnily enough, my dog actually IS a border collie. I never connected that before!)

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 5:54pm

  169. 169: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo, re. quality men, when I say “quality men” I mean an alpha male who is successful. And by successful I mean he’s got $$. I know that probably sounds shallow but I had that in my last relationship and I like it and I want it again. So if you have any suggestions about where to find men like that, please let me know, ladies!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 6:16pm

  170. 170: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Regarding chef and the concern about me ending up falling for him or something, there’s no chance, he’s absolutely NOT what I”m looking for. He would be Mr. Right for right now. How come this is so challenging to communicate???? Anyway, I’m probably not going to meet him. He’s creeping me out a bit. Thanks for everyone’s input. Interesting was strong reactions it brought up! Wow! :O

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 6:19pm

  171. 171: cupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    168 Liquid Light

    Flying lessons. Sailing lessons.
    Polo. And try to get on the guest list for exclusive wine tastings at expensive restaurants. Befriend the bartender at such establishments and ask.

    All of the above suggestions based on the activities of my previous employers, Alpha CEOs. :)

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 6:37pm

  172. 172: Helena HartNo Gravatar says:

    Carrie – 125 – thank you!! Yes, you want to trust your boundaries and be strong on the INSIDE – this is what allows you to be completely soft and surrendered on the outside. If all of your boundaries are on the outside – like a wall you’ve built up around yourself – a man won’t be able to get close to you and won’t feel as compelled to move towards you.

    Love, Helena

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 7:00pm

  173. 173: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light to add to Cupcakes suggestions I meet them at golf clubs, I’m taking lessons, and also on POF. Since watching Targeting Mr Right I’ve worked on really tweaking my profile to attract my target audience and I am attracting lots of high quality men there now too.
    My Mr. Right has to be very ambitious, financially secure and uber generous because I’m like that and from experience I need him to be as much if not, preferably, more so.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 7:21pm

  174. 174: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Cupcake for me beta males are super great practice for out-girling and sometimes they really knock me off my feet by how quickly and happily they step into the masculine role. Society doesn’t teach men how to be men any better than it teaches women to be women.

    As for what you were saying about he who must not be named having your ideal life, all the things you want for yourself, do you think its possible you can just as easily attract those qualities of life again but in the city you’re in right now? And now that you have a really clear picture of how it actually looks you could maybe see yourself open to getting it all and more with a different man?

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 7:34pm

  175. 175: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    I really, really love reading these comments. It feels so amazing to have a place of like-minded (like-hearted??) women to talk with. I feel supported and I feel like someone “gets” me! It’s AWESOME!

    You beautiful siren ladies are just fabulous! Even the posts I have no clue what to say to, I read avidly. I just want you all to know that!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 7:44pm

  176. 176: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I had somewhat of a phone screening tonight lol with a cd from online…I guess you could say it was a mutual screening.
    He was nice and intelligent but wanted me to travel to his side of town to meet. I used feeling messages to communicate I don’t want that and proud of myself for that. He suggested something closer to my house but then suggested I come to his house,
    I said no.
    I know rori suggests not being on the phone too long but I talked to to him for about an hour which was good because we have some differences around values and futures that are problematic.
    But regardless, he still wants to meet me….
    I said I would think about it…
    Hmm.
    I am Feeling akward and discouraged a lil, but, I am also choosing not to focus on that feeling but focus on other ones that are positive….
    I am going to have a bikini body by March…
    You heard me ladies!
    Tan bikini body…that is what I’m focusing on…me…hehe

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:03pm

  177. 177: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I would only meet him out of curiosity and for friend jail and practice feeling messages…but last time I said that I fell hard for cutecityCD lol…
    I need to be cautious…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:06pm

  178. 178: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    *Friendship!!! Not friend jail….omg lolol

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:07pm

  179. 179: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    Thinking a lot about getting really clear about my personal rules for CDing, sex, exclusivity and marriage and figuring out what would feel best to me.

    - I feel good kissing anytime
    - I don’t feel good going halfway (and defined what that means for me) until 2 months and I’m feeling loved
    - I don’t feel good having full sex until 4 months
    - I don’t want sexual exclusivity unless marriage is on the table
    - I don’t want exclusivity at all or to live with a man unless I’m engaged and have a date set (I’m dating or married)
    - I don’t want a boytoy or FWB because that feels easy and safe to me as a way for me to avoid real intimacy whilst getting my kicks so to speak.
    - I don’t want a common law union, I want marriage.
    - I want the real deal committed relationship with a man who can continue to grow and go emotionally deep with me and until he shows up and proposes my options are staying wide open to receive all the arrows coming my way.

    I feel peaceful and confident knowing I’m committed 100% to me.

    Sweet dreams sirens xx

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:09pm

  180. 180: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Dominique :)

    I was just enjoying the fact that, yes indeed, I do feel attraction for someone who wasn’t D, and I felt totally safe too.

    And B texted me yesterday to say he had a marvelous time, thinks I’m extraordinary and will call me (today) to plan the next time to see each other. When we were together, he said I make him feel calm.

    *Melt*

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:49pm

  181. 181: Helena HartNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – 126 – I LOVE this: “Lean Back & Have Faith. : ) Either he will step or something better will come along.”

    Carrie – this will be helpful to keep in mind for your situation, the right man for you will take your feelings and what’s important to you into account.

    Love, Helena

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:52pm

  182. 182: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Blue came round on Saturday morning and dropped off carrots for my horse, and as he was leaving, gave me a box of my favourite chocolates.

    I felt quite melty towards him too, I miss him.

    Yesterday afternoon (Sunday), he invited me to the pub down the road for a drink which he paid for – I didn’t stay long, and when I got home I found a text from him saying he missed me.

    Sigh. I do have to say, this all feels so good after what I went through with D.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:53pm

  183. 183: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Liquid Light,

    The guys I’ve dated all have good jobs… I don’t know about lots and lots of $$ though! :)

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 8:54pm

  184. 184: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Wow, thanks for the suggestions, ladies! Golf! WOW, I never contemplated taking lessons though my ex and all his friends played golf. He took me golfing once. I always thought it was the silliest game, but when I tried it I realized how hard it was and now have a whole new respect for it. But taking lessons, wow that’s brilliant, thanks Kyla.

    I also love the idea of exclusive wine tastings! I love wine so that would be a natural but didn’t really know about private wine tastings and befriending bartenders to give invited. Love that! And sailing lessons, there’s water all around here, so that ones a natural! So much fun, love the ideas, Cupcake and Kyla, thanks so much!

    If anyone else has other ideas, I’d love to hear them…I’m getting so excited!!!!

    Kyla, any tips re. targeting your profile for Mr. Right? That sounds intriguing!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 9:10pm

  185. 185: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla 178, I love your rules!!! OMG, so inspiring girl!!! You rock!!!!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 9:11pm

  186. 186: MillieNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique 156 and Shannon 158

    Thank you ladies for working through this with me. I feel SO much more clear on what is going on on my end of things from what you both have shared. I realize now the missed opportunity I had to really share how I felt in the moment with this man. I also realize I can’t expect him to “just know” anything. I need to communicate it, however obvious I may think it is.

    Shannon–You’re right. I haven’t let the romantic-ness of him go. I haven’t. I put it in a box, but it’s still there. He hasn’t reached out to me lately, but I feel more clear now on what I need to start doing for myself. Communicating. You’re right also, that I’ll never REALLY know unless I state what I feel/want. If I don’t, I’m just assuming. Just like I’m assuming now that he knows I like him more than a friend.

    Dominique–The red one vs. purple one is a super clear analogy. I understand it now…. thank you!

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 9:12pm

  187. 187: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    178 Kyla I like your clarity and I’ve been doing the same thing….
    Defining my specific boundaries and deal breakers….
    Now I need to stick with them..

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:04pm

  188. 188: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    Perhaps wine classes?

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:08pm

  189. 189: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    174 Shannon I feel the same way.

    Indigo I like successful men as well$$$. Not as a gold digger but just as a desire for a provider that can be generous and take care of things. I don’t want to do the heavy lifting, financially. I’ve done it for myself all my adult life, even while in relationships and I want feel cherished and cared for.
    I’m thinking golf lessons are sounding pretty interesting right now…I’ve always felt curious…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:19pm

  190. 190: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I’m going to call the cd I spoke with tonite on the phone BridgeCD.
    I feel open to meet him and I think I will tell him yes….he really wants to meet me and I feel unsure how it will go but it will be good practice and my vibe needs a shot of male energy…

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:22pm

  191. 191: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I feel squeezy and squinty faced…I feel prickly and afraid of real intimacy …. I feel scared to be vulnerable and to feel fragile…
    I wonder if I will always feel fragile ….

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 10:59pm

  192. 192: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Carrie (127)

    I saw that you asked, “How did I tell him..?”
    It was hard with Stinky CD because of how well he treated me consistently, again and again, showing me how much he wanted for me to be happy with him.

    He tried so hard to show me that I was a Goddess to him. He would tell me, “You deserve this..”
    Never made me lift a proverbial finger, but allowed me to if I wanted.

    I had not been used to being treated that way by a man. He made me FEEL Great about who I am. And that was so wonderful.

    But after a year of “dating”… I also started to realize that another feeling was coming up with in me. I felt unbalanced, uneven, wrong even.. because I couldn’t reciprocate. I couldn’t make him feel great about who he was, only about how he treated me.

    It came to a head when one of our friends took a picture of the two of us together and plastered on facebook, saying, “Aren’t these two cute?”

    Then I really looked at us. He was all smiles and trying to put his arm around me. I was cringing because I didn’t want to be physically that close to him. I realized it had gotten that bad.

    He called me the first week of January and wanted to buy tickets to an event here in town for my daughters and I. So I finally, during that phone call, dug deep inside of me and knew I had to come up with the truth.

    I told him that I feel indebted to him. That I feel an inequality when I’m with him. And I told him, I don’t like feeling this way. Then I explained how I feel when I have a natural attraction to someone, like I naturally want to be closer to them, to touch them, to have hugs and kisses, and there is a sexual chemistry with them that feels organic and natural. But I told him that with him it all feels forced, that I am trying to be a certain way because I feel like I owe it to him because of the way he treats me.

    He tried to negotiate a friendship. He said, “I just want you in my life no matter what capacity and I’ll accept a friendship.”

    But I said, that feels dishonest to me and that I would just like some distance.
    Then he’s the one who asked if there was anything he could do to make it better. I told him, “I know I’m not a perfect physical specimen, but there are some physical things about you that really turn me off.”
    Then I described some of the things and he just agreed. He didn’t say whether or not he felt he needed to work on those things for himself, or to have a relationship. But I told myself that I wasn’t going to worry about that or get into his business or help him “fix” anything.
    I just felt strongly that I wanted to be honest about what turns me off.

    It was really hard. And I miss the way he treated me. And since we had that discussion, he hasn’t contacted me.

    The thing is, I see his value as a human being. I have a love for him in my heart, just because he is who he is. But HE is the one who wanted me to see him as a romantic partner. HE is the one who wanted me to see him as boyfriend material. I wasn’t making a judgment call about who he is as a person. I was telling him why I didn’t see him as my boyfriend or as a potential sexual partner. Fully knowing that that opened the door for him to do the same to me. But it came to the point where that was okay.

    I asked him, “Don’t you want to be with someone who is drawn to you? Someone who wants to be enfolded in your arms and kissed by you? Don’t you think you deserve that?”

    He said that he’d hoped that someone was me. And all I could say was, “It’s not. I’m sorry. I had hoped that it could have been me as well. But I just don’t feel it.”

    And that was that.

    Sunday, 12 January 2014 @ 11:54pm

  193. 193: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been having strange dreams every night !! Scary dreams

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 12:58am

  194. 194: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea – 191- That took tremendous courage speaking your truth. I applaud you.

    xxoo

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:07am

  195. 195: AndreaNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Dominique, there is a sadness there. Like… that phase of my life is over. It feels like a relationship break up, even though we never really consummated.

    But I also do feel a sense of goodness, like I finally did the right thing. The results of honesty really are deeper than just outer appearances. I feel more grounded in myself and like I don’t have to pretend anymore.

    It was also good practice for other men in my life. Being true to me in every form.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:14am

  196. 196: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo. It feels really wonderful to read about your experiences with these new men that are buzzing around you. Good for and to you!

    xo

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:32am

  197. 197: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Andrea. That must have taken some great gut wrenching courage to get to that place where you could share that. I suspect he must respect you more now that you have said that. Also the fact that you did not tell him to his face I believe he must really appreciate. I believe it would have been an greater sting with shame if you had told him face to face.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 6:07am

  198. 198: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa… I found your posts about your outward and inner experience with your long distance date very enlightening.

    My youngest daughter (24) has a male friend that told her that women have all the power in the relationship. To which she said “REALLY”? That is not what she had run into… and then she elaborated on what her experience with men had been. He said… “then you have been with the wrong ones”.

    If we do not know what our boundries are mostly because we are disconnected from our feelings it makes it so hard to navigate thru with men and life really. Maybe… we dont enforce them or they we need to tweek them or re-evaluate them. Of all the tools I have learned here.. this is primary for me. Always and ever be tuned in to what I am feeling, the good ones and the bad ones.

    Because you have mad a commitment to yourself… to be the best version of yourself you can.. to take good emotional care of yourself etc… you were able to steer thru your inner waters and communicate to your long distance man what was really at the core of things. How interesting it was to read how you your experience with him and the outcomes. Whatever happens with the relationship… you are commited to be a safe place for yourself.

    Hooray!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 6:17am

  199. 199: LindaNo Gravatar says:

    Andrea… again your sharing encourages and strengthens my inner resolve to be at peace with myself inside. THank you for sharing.

    All men in our lives are messengers just as we can be a messenger in theirs as well.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 6:25am

  200. 200: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    Millie – 155 – Hi, I’ve been on match before and I wasn’t enthusiastic about it. I haven’t tried POF. I want to try a religious dating site because I have such an aversion to meeting men from my religion. There’s something in that aversion that I need to heal, I believe. I cringe just thinking about it. I also feel aversion to meeting men from my background. There’s this need to escape that I don’t fully understand yet.

    Emerson -177 – Ha ha I like those words quite a lot – friend jail

    Indigo – It’s wonderful to hear that your desire is emerging and that you’re having such good experiences with good men : )

    Andrea -191 – Wow and beautiful. If someone did to me what you did, I would feel offended for a little while but I would also have great respect and admiration for you in that you considered me worthy of honesty and real love.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 7:07am

  201. 201: VeronicaNo Gravatar says:

    I feel so relieved for my parents. I had been worrying about them for a long time. I thought they were just plodding along and that my dad had just given up. But I’ve lately heard these very dear words from my dad about my mom. (My dad has never made negative or sexual comments about my mom’s body to us – only if she is unwell, does my mom’s body become aware to us as he regards her body – i.e. your mom looks unwell, she doesn’t feel strong.) It has been a mystery to me and my siblings as to how they really regard each other. But lately we’ve heard sweet words from my father about my mother. For example, I had taken my mom’s skirt she used to wear when she was much younger and I would wear it because I love the pattern and colour. My dad saw me one day and said ‘your mom used to wear that skirt, she doesn’t wear skirts anymore, she doesn’t want to show her beautiful legs’. My sister felt such warmth when I told her what my dad said. Also, my dad never made comments about our bodies either, the closest word would be ‘beauties’. The other day, my sister asked him what he thought of my dress and didn’t I look pretty, to which he replied, she is beautiful, it doesn’t change from one day to the next. Those words were exactly what I needed. I feel so happy that I can hear those words and see that loving side of my father that is so secret. For a long time I thought it didn’t exist.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 7:23am

  202. 202: redbutterflyNo Gravatar says:

    I loved catching up on the blog this morning and reading all your stories, especially the ones about physical attractiveness and how you guys all coped with that. And it made me realize that I am so lucky to have found the widower and to finally be in a good relationship that is leading toward marriage. He spent an hour retracing our steps on a ski trail this weekend when I lost my phone skiing and wasn’t angry about it at all! After I found my phone (in the backseat of the car, no less) he just said, “well, that was an awesome workout! I’m so glad you found your phone!” I am so happy I found this man!

    My question to you all is when you want to show your appreciation to your man and the relationship is where it should be, what are some of the things that you do to show your appreciation? At this point in our relationship, a little leaning forward would feel good to me. We don’t live together yet but I would like to do something for him that shows him how much I love him. Any ideas?

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 7:58am

  203. 203: redbutterflyNo Gravatar says:

    awww, veronica, that was a really sweet story!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 8:01am

  204. 204: cupcakeNo Gravatar says:

    Sirens, I’d appreciate your thoughts here.

    I have a dinner date tonight with LawyerCD who I have not met yet. We spoke on the phone yesterday for about 20 minutes, and it felt like he is interesting and entertaining, and he has a self-confidence that feels appealing.

    What I want your advice on is that he is taking me to dinner, and then he hinted that he wants to go hear music afterwards. That feels like a very long first date to me.

    Any suggestions or thoughts about this? I do have the honest excuse of a morning phone call at 7 am with a guy I’m doing a project for. But I also don’t want to be a party pooper. I don’t know.

    What would you do?

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 9:01am

  205. 205: ShannonNo Gravatar says:

    Cupcake, even if you find yourself super into him, cut it short.

    It raises your value and makes him chase you.

    I wouldn’t make an excuse, as Rori says, you simply say, “I really want to get home and get some rest. Big day tomorrow.” Let it go at that. Don’t tell him what kind of big day, just go back into “I feel” messages… “What’s the big day?” “I really love spending time with you, I feel so good. But I really want to get home. I feel a little tired.”

    That isn’t dodging the question, it’s moving on back into what you want and how you feel.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 9:05am

  206. 206: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    You can also say “I feel excited about a project I’m working on early tomorrow morning. It feels amazing to be able to express myself in writing. I feel joyful and happy in my heart when I find just the right words to describe a feeling”

    I’m still trying to master the art of answering “So, what do you do?” or “tell me what your work is like?” with feeling messages.
    I’m practising looking for the poetry in even the most straightforward things.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:01am

  207. 207: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    The key seems to be to find those places inside me where I light up. And speak from there. What man could resist….!!!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:02am

  208. 208: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    @Linda #197 Thanks!!! <3 that felt good to read your post…

    OXOX

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:04am

  209. 209: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Redbutterfly,

    Showing appreciation to a man, in its most feminine form, is simply to beam and melt with happiness when he does something for you. And any variation on the theme. Sometimes I can’t resist giggling and jumping up to kiss WM. But that’s probably a bit too much. As long as you feel real appreciation in your heart, he will pick that up. And it will feel like gold to him.

    Really, I’m finding it to be true. A man loves to make a woman happy. It’s far more valuable to him than you trying to make him happy. Try it and see!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:07am

  210. 210: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Luzydel,

    Great job with the clutter clearing.
    Karen Kingston (international Space-Clearer/Clutter Clearing/Feng Shui expert) says there is little point doing inner work if your outer environment is full of clutter. But that once you begin the outer task, the inner work follows on with ease and flow.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:12am

  211. 211: April RoseNo Gravatar says:

    Indigo,

    Woof!
    Feeling delighted that you got your mojo back and feeling relieved that you didn’t give it away to that D bloke after all!!!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:15am

  212. 212: Liquid LightNo Gravatar says:

    I’m going to sign up for a wine tasting class this weekend…excited!

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:30am

  213. 213: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you so much Linda and Veronica :)

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:40am

  214. 214: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    Haha April Rose, love ya!

    I feel goddessy, it’s true :)

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:42am

  215. 215: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    red butterfly,

    For me, if a man’s energy has been powerfully coming towards me, I find it perfectly ok to show my appreciation of him. For me, this may take the form of physical affection, or an inexpensive little something (like a snack that he likes) or… a surprise short and sweet supportive message during the day.

    This would be after he’s done a lot for me, so “giving back” some of the energy, and would be with the intent of bringing us closer, which I believe makes a good man happy.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:46am

  216. 216: IndigoNo Gravatar says:

    B phoned me tonight and set up a movie date for tomorrow night – he is booking the tickets and picking me up :)

    Yay :) I felt like purring, and tried to communicate that in my voice over the phone.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:48am

  217. 217: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    redbuuterfly – The best way you can show him your appreciation is by being open to him, heart soft and receptive as well as smiling and melting big time when he treats you the way you love, eg. touching, kissing, making love, buying you a trinket or something bigger, taking you somewhere you feel really good whether it’s a walk in the park or a fancy evening out. And you can also tell him how wonderful whatever it is he has said or done feels or maybe how safe you feel with him.

    If you really want to DO something. make him a lovely meal.

    xxoo

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:49am

  218. 218: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Cupcake I like April Rose’s response to you better. It borders on telling a passion story and your truth. The following is what I get you might want to communicate. Maybe you could get some ideas from it without going into too much explaining.

    “I feel flattered that you want to spend time with me. Big day tomorrow. Feeling all excited and lit up thinking about the possibility of working on a project that takes me right into my passion for writing. I feel concerned if I stay out too late I might feel tired and not show my best side tomorrow. I want to feel all rested and calm in the morning.”

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 10:53am

  219. 219: CarrieNo Gravatar says:

    Helena (180), thank you so much!!! : )

    Andrea (191), I can totally relate to your story, especially the picture thing! You were so brave to be so honest like that, I feel inspired, thanks for sharing!!!

    ~Carrie

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 11:53am

  220. 220: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Sirens I feel thankful today for the people who have helped me and showed me kindness ….
    I am going to work on my vision board tonight maybe….

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 12:50pm

  221. 221: EmersonNo Gravatar says:

    Hmm…an old cd just popped up out of the blue…
    I feel a hit surprised I thought he was dropped off long ago lol….I even forgot what I named him …if he stays in the pic I will give him a new name. I sometimes wonder why they show up again?? Maybe I will never know. He is nice I feel open to talk to him.

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:06pm

  222. 222: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    I’ve been thinking about how it really does take a long time to get to know someone. Like, ok, take Orchidman, for example. We are texting still, and we even chatted on the phone on Friday. It felt nice. And we are only just reaching a stage in which we kind of have a “groove” and we sort of understand each other, even with our little obnoxious quirks. And we are not IN a relationship, so it doesn’t matter. It just felt good to hear from him that he still considers me a friend. Even though I’ve called him a jack@ss and various other things. Lol. I’m just having fun.

    And weird, but tonight, I just decided that I’m already done with internet dating. Two weeks. Not even. Well, tomorrow is the 14th, so yeah, exactly two weeks.

    Weird, because I don’t even feel desperate. I don’t feel like I “need” to find a guy before valentine’s day or something. I don’t feel like I “need” a guy at all. All I know is, all these men are interested in me and checking me out and it’s great and everything. But I just keep turning them away. Every single one of them. Sooner or later. They just don’t feel right, for one reason or another. And every time I make a connection, it does take something out of me. Not in a bad way, it’s just that it’s a connection. And so it means something, even if it doesn’t go very far.

    I’m content to just keep doing what I’m doing: focusing on making my life better for ME. And then I’ll be ready, whenever ‘he’ comes along, in whatever fashion. I haven’t shut my Okc profile down yet, but I probably will tomorrow…

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:48pm

  223. 223: TereanaNo Gravatar says:

    Emerson – it’s fun that an old cd popped up again! I listened to something from Marni Battista recently, where she said “they always come back.” Lol. I guess it’s true!

    And I just kept thinking to myself, “not for me.” But of course, with that attitude, they probably wouldn’t! I wonder if I could just be open to a man returning into my life, unexpectedly. It has actually happened to me a lot. Sometimes it’s welcome and other times not. But I guess, if they show up, then it’s an opportunity to revisit the experience with new eyes.

    Could be fun! : )

    Monday, 13 January 2014 @ 5:51pm

  224. 224: redbutterflyNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for the thoughts, April Rose, Dominique and Indigo!

    Tuesday, 14 January 2014 @ 11:47am

  225. 225: R.N.AmazingMeNo Gravatar says:

    Relationships are very hard in life,it takes honesty and hard work/devotion. Watch for red flags as if something bothers u now it will bother u later. Trust yourself and instincts because they are your compass. I know for me i feel tired of having to learn and understand how to keep a man.when a man is trying his best to keep me…that’s when I will listen… seems rude or unfair I understand that but when u come from a long…long history of being a pleaser,it is exhausting and I now know it’s all about me. As it should be. If things don’t work out….they don’t work out. This is no stress to me anymore…life is too short.live life..love yourself to love another.

    Sunday, 19 January 2014 @ 12:22am

  226. 226: R.N.AmazingMeNo Gravatar says:

    Relationships are very hard in life,it takes honesty and hard work/devotion. Watch for red flags as if something bothers u now it will bother u later. Trust yourself and instincts because they are your compass. I know for me i feel tired of having to learn and understand how to keep a man.when a man is trying his best to keep me…that’s when I will listen… seems rude or unfair I understand that but when u come from a long…long history of being an over functioning girlfriend/fiancée,it is exhausting and I now know it’s all about me. As it should be. If things don’t work out….they don’t work out. This is no stress to me anymore…life is too short.live life..love yourself to love another.

    Sunday, 19 January 2014 @ 12:24am

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