Porn And Your Relationship

Okay – this is a tough, tough topic – and I asked Tinque to guest post about it – because she’s dealt with it in her own life, becoming an amazing woman, an absolute expert and a great coach. Her take is completely the opposite of everything you’ll hear out there, and I’ll be asking her to write for us often, as well as comment.

Tinque is completely about using EVERYTHING that shows up to expand herself inside – and she’s absolutely determined to expand herself, totally dedicated to herself, and to helping you turn this lemon into lemonade as she’s done. She  wrote this in reply to a post we both saw about how porn and fantasy take away from a relationship – you’ll see how she has a very on-the-edge-of-the-envelope perspective and some very on-the-edge-of-the-envelope and powerful ideas on this, and I know you’ll have lots of comments (here’s a picture of Tinque, too):

“Everyone is different, and not all individuals or couples respond to porn in the same way. Not all porn is used as a substitute or as fantasy whether it be images or words, and comparisons are not necessarily being made.

I discovered my partner liked to look at porn on the internet three years into the relationship. If I hadn’t happened upon it one day, I would still not know to this day that he likes porn, for he was always attentive, loving, and very sexual with me, very much into me and us. We had a really nice relationship even though I knew all along that I was keeping my deeper self from him.

I always have and knew no other way out of fear etc., yet still we were really good together. I’m sure he sensed some of this somewhere, but he’s patient and felt that someday I would open to him or not. Porn had nothing to do with any of this.

Finding it though plunged me into deep despair, but I knew from the beginning that it wasn’t entirely about the porn. It was much more about deeper issues that were being triggered by it. It took me three more years of intense inner work using various means along with desire, determination, and dedication that brought me through to the other side.

I came to find out that for him and surely other men as well that porn only stokes the fire of his passion for me, or sometimes it’s just an amusement, as a tease to be reignited at another time. Who doesn’t enjoy being aroused after all? He uses porn as a tool to arouse himself for me, not for use as an empty evacuation or ejaculation, rarely that is. The images are objects of arousal, not figures of desire.

Men like my man have a wonderful way of being able to be sexually attracted to nearly any image of a naked woman and not desire them. There is a clear difference in their minds and hearts between momentary eroticism in a picture or even a woman passing on the street or even a stripper in the flesh and the full bodied response, heart and soul included, they have for their beloved.

Porn for this kind of man creates a direct connection from eyeballs to penis. There is no stopping along the way. When he see me on the other hand there is, the brain and the heart. A distinct difference of which he’s well aware. This is something most women cannot fathom. We may or may not fantasize about images we see or words we read, but we can imagine, feel, sometimes all sensations, touch, smell, taste even as if we are there, and we can create fantastic scenarios; we can become caught up in it all and possibly become confused. For most men this is not true.

For me now that I have healed from my deeper stuff and mostly reconciled myself with porn, I now share it with my man or look at it alone, I find that I can feel all that I just described above if I find an image or clip that arouses me, but there is never a comparison, for I’m just feeling what I feel nebulously, as if I’m a sentient, ephemeral being among ghost like figures.

They are so not real, fun to fantasize about and maybe masturbate to sometimes but not very fulfilling. What could possibly be better than sex with my man? The real thing could never compare to a two dimensional unreal image, and I know he feels the same.

We’ve been together now for over six years, and though sex has never been boring, it keeps getting better and better. Much has to do with me letting my stuff go and opening up in all ways, body, mind, heart, and spirit. I have also found that men take our lead in this. The more we open to them, the more they will open to us. They find something through our hearts for which there really isn’t one word. It’s aspects of the following; love, a balance, an ease, peace, harmony, joy, and more.

It’s not that they can’t find these things without us, they can, yet in a loving union, it’s such a wonderful and maybe richer way to do so. But it works both ways. The more we open to them, the more they open to us they open to us, and the deeper we can go. What a lovely symbiosis.

Maybe we’re both lucky to have what we have with each other, for he is my brand of adoring white knight in shining armor, and I am his loving hussy slut ho.”

I’ll bet this is triggering you, because in all the time Tinque and I were working together, I felt triggered and inspired to work with myself, too – so I could stay WITH Tinque while she was moving so fast through all of this amazing personal growth.  All the Tools I developed for her, I used for myself, and I’ve been sharing them with you.  But Tinque is actually in the MIDDLE of this expanding relationship – so her point of view is absolutely unique and expert.

If you want to read more on her blog, or talk to Tinque by phone, visit www.tinque.blogspot.com – it’s very, very eye-opening and controversial.

I’m going to push the envelope on this topic, because it’s absolutely everywhere right now, and USE this often very UGLY and painful situation to open up many, many places in ourselves that can turn it into a beautiful thing for us personally – in the way we feel about ourselves and the way we relate to men and CHOOSE our men.

Love, Rori

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144 Comments to “Porn And Your Relationship”

  1. 1: Caj13No Gravatar says:

    Well, I’m gonna kick this off with MY body. No – no confessions about an early porn star career. Actually I’ve been in more than a funk lately and with some professional help, have been finally getting to the trauma, realizing what it consisted in and the extent to which it has shaped my life, finding ways to deal with it. Heavy stuff, so I’ve been resting (and with helpful reminders in Rori’s posts, not beating myself up too much about being lazy). Yet still, I can’t quite get to expressing the anger, it just fizzles out and stays stuck. So what to do? (One of these days, my plan is to take singing lessons , not especially to sing, but to learn how to make myself make and project sound, angry, RAGING sounds – like my fellow, expert deliciously furious goddesses on here.) In the meantime, I kept picking up on all Rori’s references to getting into the body, even though my body has been feeling as ghostly as my voice. And bingo, this week, the Universe has decided to serve my body! First in Monday’s “love café” (sounds corny, it’s not, sounds weird, it sometimes is) where a therapist couple had us all gradually looking at and touching each other in the most comforting, respectful and feel good ways. I’d been ready to bolt if it got yucky, and instead even my head and heart felt better. Then, this afternoon, some musician friends wanted to show me the massage techniques they have been learning. This is something that I hardly expected from that quarter and just isn’t in my repertoire (I hate giving massages, so I guess I feel I don’t deserve getting them), but what a delight having my feet and upper back modeled and caressed, in a peaceful setting with music and rock crystal lights. We forget how healing touch can be; how grounding, too. So after such fantastic preparation and despite a body that had been awol for some time and a bum foot, I went dancing tonight ! And got asked to dance more than I ever do, by all kinds of men young and o…let’s say more in my age bracket (not that I’m prejudiced against the younger set, they’re certainly a lot cuter).

    So what has this to do with porn? Nothing. It’s just about baby steps and doing your own body good, even just thinking good or feeling good about yourself, even just trying without great success, keeping the faith that this is worthwhile, as we are all helping each other do on here, that gets things moving in good directions.

    Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 5:39pm

  2. 2: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    yae caj 13! that sounds soooo wonderful. those sound like Big baby steps! yae! good for you. welcome back to your body. :)

    Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 6:05pm

  3. 3: ReshiNo Gravatar says:

    Caj13, do you have Modern Siren? There’s a whole long awesome section about using your voice on there–I know every time I go through and do it I feel like I’ve been through an awesome voice lesson. Also, this “love cafe” thing has me interested, I want to move to whatever city you live in!

    As for porn, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I love it. Not the degrading stuff, of course, but beautiful naked bodies getting it on? I’m a huge fan. In fact, I often find it turns me on.

    So I don’t think I’d have an issue with any man of mine looking at porn–just as long as it fires him up to get it on with me afterwards! ;)

    Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 6:55pm

  4. 4: Caj13No Gravatar says:

    Thanks, AG and Reshi. No, don’t have Modern Siren yet, but it’s on my wish list. Re the love cafe, well I live in Europe, so it might be a tad more challenging to move here than to another state. But there’ve been speakers who’ve lived, worked, wrote in California or done seminars there, so I think it would be possible for one to exist there, at least. (One guy went to a seminar to learn how to have an orgasm without ejaculating, then came back home here and somehow told his stepmother, a famous writer, about the experience and they wrote a book together ! – told ya – weird sometimes).

    Anyway, I used to be with you about porn (well no, actually, I prefer with a guy), but so much of it has just gotten SO raunchy and degrading, even downright criminal, that I guess I prefer the prissier language of erotica now. Whatever. You’re right about the turn-on, though, and it’s definitely the female body which is erotic for both sexes. Sure, we can more than appreciate male bodies, but it’s not (or very rarely) the instant, direct, reflexive peeper-to-pee’er that Tinque was talking about for men. But I keep hearing about young women going around exclaiming, loudly, ‘Omg did you see him? I’m so wet!’ and then their friends feeling sooo complexed cuz they just don’t get these hystero-hard ons! So, let’s just keep it real here, and true to ourselves. Prudery may be someone else’s agenda, but we can have our own tastes and not be silly copy-cats!

    Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 8:02pm

  5. 5: ReshiNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah, I can get turned on by a pornographic image–and yes, it’s definitely the female body that does it for me–but there’s no insta-boner, it definitely takes a detour through the brain (and some delicious imagery of a beautiful man doing all that stuff to me) first. And you’re right, a lot of what’s out there is degrading and icky-feeling–where it seems like the goal is for men to “score” at our expense. And if a man I was seeing liked that kind of porn, I don’t think I would continue seeing him. For lack of a better term, “win-win porn” is what the world needs more of. That I could see men and women enjoying together.

    I can’t even imagine getting wet just from seeing a pretty guy. There would have to be some attention and energy from him to me before I felt anything. Maybe that means I am a feminine energy person, maybe it just means I’m a dried up old hag…I prefer to beliieve the former.

    I can’t really get int erotica with all the references to “tumescent manhood” and “heaving mounds” but erotic poetry really does it for me…that’s yet one more level of abstraction I suppose…talk about flowers and gardens and moonlight and passion. Especially erotic poetry written by men…there’s something so amazing in that. I have a notebook where I copied down several such poems and pretend they were written for me; I read it whenever I feel I need a shot of bliss. ;)

    Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:36pm

  6. 6: CassandraNo Gravatar says:

    Caj…I loved your post about getting back into your body. Interestingly, given all that I have been physically dealing with lately I have gotten away from that as well and need to get back to that. I am SO excited to hear that you have always wanted to sing! Personally, I believe that when I AM singing…when i am on a stage or in the studio and just able to do my thing….I am TOTALLY immersed in ME and what I am FEELING. If I can’t FEEL what I am singing than how can I move anyone else to feel anything and music is such a powerful tool that truly go directly to you heart and spirit. I think that it is the one time that I feel absolutely free to be ME and I feel safe there and wonderful.
    There an excercise that I wanted to share with you that will help you not only in your singing but in getting in touch with your body…Rori….I hope this is ok that I share this here. :-)
    First, while you are standing up – shoulders relaxed and arms falling naturally at your sides….just breathe..in thru your nose and out thru your mouth. You can even count to five each way if that will help you. Notice if your chest is rising or expanding or if your tummy is extending and expanding…no right or wrong…just notice what your body is doing. Do this a few times so that you are totally in touch with how your breathing feels and where (chest or tummy) it is coming from. Now…lay down on the floor – on your back and do the very same thing. You will notice as you get into notcing how your body feels that as you were doing this standing up your chest was expending more but as you do this on the floor laying down you will see that your tummy will be expanding more and that you can take in alot more air. Think of a sleeping baby – they always breathe thru their tummies. When you breathe in thru your nose while laying on the floor expand your tummy as far as you can by taking in as much air as you can. One thing you can add to this excercise is…as you are laying down on the floor…as you breathe out gently let out an open sound such as an ‘AHHHHH’ or an OHHHH. If you also try this standing up you will notice the difference in the strength of your voice laying down as opposed to standing up…you will have alot more strenght laying down. The more often that you do this you will begin to FEEL this in your body and eventually be able to transfer that awareness to feel the same thing and breath ‘with your tummy’ even when you are standing up. This is one of the very first things that you would ever learn in a good voice lesson and it will help you alot. I hope this helps and i can’t wait to hear all about your singing!!
    With love and hugs…
    Cassandra

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 4:27am

  7. 7: Caj13No Gravatar says:

    Thank you so much Cassandra! I just tried it and it works! Fabulous (the Mozart on the radio was just too flippant to cry with rage, but I can try with something darker). And I’m sure this will help a lot of other Still-caught-in-their-throat Sirens, too. It’s lovely having you think about me, AND what about yourself? Get back ‘n Practice What You Preach, Angel-Voice ! XOXO

    PS Reshi – How about Starting a ‘love café’ as a business proposition !!?? I’m sure there’s a market, and Rori could be your first guest speaker!

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 5:52am

  8. 8: CassandraNo Gravatar says:

    Caj..YAY!!! I am so glad that you tried it! If you are looking for a darker piece of music to listen to as you really feel your rage then try Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata. You will love it! It is dark but has a kind of peaceful eeriness to it. Again..hope this helps.
    Reshi – I think that Caj’s idea of a Love Cafe’ is an awesome idea!!! Go for it Goddess!!
    With love and huge hugs….Cassandra

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 6:43am

  9. 9: ErikaNo Gravatar says:

    I’m with Reshi. Maybe we are in a minority among women, but porn has never bothered me at all. Why resist it? Watch it with him! Same goes for strip clubs (gasp).

    Lol :-)

    Getting more mischievous all the time …

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:37am

  10. 10: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    UGH… i called this guy who had not called me and I feel gross! He texted me back that he’s going to call me later but I feel scared I messed up my “vibe” which was doing really well…. YUCK… I feel Gross. And I love my gross feelings. Thank u feelings.

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 12:37pm

  11. 11: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    All of you ladies are so awesome. Here are some more melancholic pieces to listen to, anything by Sibelius, symphony #5 is a favorite as well as Valse Triste, Mahler #2 and #5, Gorecki #2. I have more if anyone is interested.
    Now I have a question to pose to everyone. I too find images of bodies doing sexual, loving things to each other a turn on as well as some more edgy stuff, but what I like is couples and scenarios. Men like the women by themselves, alone, not so much the couple stuff. Doesn’t that make you feel insecure? Don’t you wonder if he finds them, the images, more attractive than you? Younger? Prettier? Something else-er? Don’t you wonder if he imagines himself with the women he sees? Wouldn’t that make you feel bad? Less than? I would love to hear your thoughts and feelings.
    tinque

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 1:57pm

  12. 12: alias girlNo Gravatar says:

    tinque. thank you for your lovely presence and your evocative posts!

    i personally would not have a huge problem unless the guy is a sex addict and is using the porn to medicate and check out of his life or treat depression or something. but then certainly in that case the porn is just a symptom.

    as far as the women being hot. well it’s so fake in my eyes that i don’t feel that threatened. i feel threatened by women in real life that he may actually meet.

    i don’t have big trigger issues with porn. i personally am not that attracted to it and interestingly i tend to attract men thaat really don’t go to it that often.

    i am big on fantasies though. but that’s a whole other topic. :)

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 2:49pm

  13. 13: ReshiNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque brings up a good point. I think I would in fact feel threatened if my guy was looking at pictures of women alone, for all the reasons mentioned. I couldn’t blame him for getting turned on if he happened to see such images, but if he were to give them his focused attention in that way, to seek them out, I would actually consider that a deal-breaker–if I see it going on. Now if he’s discreet enough about it that I don’t know he’s doing it, then I don’t care. Everyone needs their private fantasies after all, and I have plenty of my own. But putting pictures of other women where I can see them–that feels like disregard and disrespect and at this point in my life I wouldn’t stand for it.

    Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 5:05pm

  14. 14: CassandraNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque…I would absolutely have a problem with my man viewing porn. I guess I am pretty old fashioned that way but I also find that what is out there is so degrading to women and it seems quite abusive to me…as though the women are treated as an object rather than a human being…I am totally not into that at all. I personally would definitely have issues with feeling what you wrote above……”Doesn’t that make you feel insecure? Don’t you wonder if he finds them, the images, more attractive than you? Younger? Prettier? Something else-er? Don’t you wonder if he imagines himself with the women he sees? Wouldn’t that make you feel bad? Less than?” I would feel all of these things most definitely. When I have found out throughout our relationship that he had been on a christian dating site and then a site for people who intend to have an affair that was crushing enough for me and porn would make me feel the same way. perhaps it is my own weaknesses and/ or insecurities but I would NOT be ok with this at all. I am still reeling at times from the sites that I have found that he has visited since we have been together and after I moved here for him and even now I am not sure that I can ever forget that he was on them……. even still those may be a deal breaker for me…time will tell.
    Love,
    Cassandra

    Saturday, 20 December 2008 @ 5:55pm

  15. 15: SamatNo Gravatar says:

    I think its not about more attractive or more anything, to me its like he finds them attractive anyway. Even if he didnt think they were more attractive I would still be bothered. I dont want to compare myself with another girl on that kind of thing because im way better and sexier lol. I just dont wana date a guy who would go into that sort of thing while he’s dating me, i mean why would he when hes dating me? lol but i guess thats just wishful thinking. I am looking for someone who can look past it and be only involved with me. I dont think ill ever find anyone like that but im still hoping. Ok i feel really bad now. I dont think its about insecurity and stuff, I think thats just a label to make it ok for guys to do it. I am not so insecure i guess but it still bothers me about the fact that my guy’s doing it.

    Sunday, 21 December 2008 @ 4:37am

  16. 16: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    It seems as though I’ve stirred up some strong feelings here. I appreciate everyone’s honesty.
    I want to say first that most men look at this stuff, somewhere in the upper 90th percentile. I don’t want to say that’s it’s instinct, but it’s something like that, but I also want to stress, and I can’t stress this enough, it’s not as you think it is. Men’s responses do not work at all like ours. Images can be very real to us, not so men. Men have a way to compartmentalize we just don’t. When we look at an image, it’s almost as if we’re there. We can either imagine ourselves as this person, or we can imagine what it would be like to be this person. We can empathize almost completely. When men look at images, it’s almost not a person. That’s how detached an act it is for them. Men love to be stimulated, and the easiest, quickest way for them is through images. Women love to be stimulated too, but we seem to be able to achieve this more easily through our imaginations.
    A good and well balanced man will look at images of naked women, but there is no, I repeat, NO connection. It is simply a tool to keep the juices flowing, for us, I repeat, for US. Especially as they get older, the added stimulation is not so much important as, well, enjoyed I suppose. Looking at images of naked females is a momentary boost of erotic energy which they keep with them to be endowed on US. A good, well balanced, loving man will rarely ejaculate to these images, and if the does, it’s really not such a big deal. Men do like to release stress in this way every now and then, by themselves, but again I say there is no connection to what they see. The images are just as quickly gone from their consciousnesses.
    I realize this is hard for us to imagine, hard for us to accept, but it’s true.
    Things to look for as being not so good habits: your man looks at porn more than you, neglects you or his life, his job, his hobbies; he’s secretive about it, hides it from you.
    Reshi mentioned that she would rather not know, and I respect that, but sooner or later it will come up; you will find it, so I feel it’s better to know, share it if you can. I agree that putting it right in your face, looking at it while you’re in the other room or while you’re right there when you would rather he not is disrespectful and inconsiderate, but hiding it is a form of lying which is a form of cheating. You need to find what works for you to make you feel comfortable with it, find peace around it. I assure you most men do it and if they say they’re not, they’re probably lying.
    This is a hard one for many women, as it’s been for me, but if you ever saw us, me and my guy, together, you would see how much he adores me and is so turned on by me, yet he still likes porn. Again I say that it’s used as tool of arousal to be bestowed on me. ME, later.

    Monday, 22 December 2008 @ 12:08pm

  17. 17: ReshiNo Gravatar says:

    I suppose I wouldn’t mind knowing he looks at porn. It’s turning AWAY from me and TOWARDS the porn that would be the deal-breaker.

    Tuesday, 23 December 2008 @ 7:12pm

  18. 18: JPNo Gravatar says:

    It all depends on my inner confidence.

    In the olden days there were ‘nice’ girls and ‘not-nice’ girls. We all tried to be nice girls but felt threatened by the not-nice ones. What if one of our boyfriends ran off with one? What would that make us? (Nice, but not desirable – how humiliating).

    And how sad that a false and limiting belief can cause so much insecurity, yet it’s such a prevalent cultural attitude in many parts of the world.

    I like looking at pictures of sexy, undressed men. I don’t go looking extensively, but if I come across something (pardon the pun) I enjoy it :)

    Men looking at porn is something I’ve always assumed is normal for them. I’m uncomfortable with anything heavy, though – I’m not into hardcore S&M, bondage or anything that isn’t to do with consenting adults.

    A friend of mine went to a Burlesque workshop and found it fabulous for bringing out her Sexual Feminine. I feel good in my Sexual Feminine since experimenting with outfits, fantasies and taking care of my body.

    Poetry lovers might like to read Grevel Lindop’s ‘Playing with Fire’. The sequence of poems around his visits to lapdancing bars created lots of controversy and I found myself a lone voice in admiring his vulnerability in exploring his sexual self in this way and sharing it with the public.

    Saturday, 27 December 2008 @ 1:36am

  19. 19: Radchik07No Gravatar says:

    I have so been enjoying the posts from Rori and have already learned so much that has changed my thinking process about relationships, men and sex and I realize that so much of what I have been taught has been damaging to my sexual self. I was so hung up on Porn that I got a divorce over it. But what my problem really was came out later, I had a horrible self image as a female, a total lack of confidence in myself as a sexual being and was incredibly shut down about all of that. Now I am using what I have learned about being comfortable with myself FIRST, in order to love and relate to others including men. I was hung up in my dad’s images of women. Now I have a great relationship with my exhusband that feels real and other men as well and it is working for me to date many people including myself first. Also I have been actively seeking out what makes me tick sexually and looking for each experience to be a learning one, ABOUT MYSELF. Life is so much more interesting now that I can go into each date, party or sexual experience with and open mind. I am 51 years old and having a blast, finally allowing myself to love and accept ME first, then others. I have found porn that I like and what I respond to both positive and negatively and seek out erotic stimuli that I like. It has made it so much better than shutting down around all of it like I did for so long.

    Sunday, 23 August 2009 @ 5:20pm

  20. 20: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Welcome, Radchik, and Yippee!! You sound wonderful….look forward to more of your comments about how you made this transformation happen for yourself…Love, Rori

    Sunday, 23 August 2009 @ 6:48pm

  21. 21: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Radchiko7 – Thank you for reading this and responding in such a beautiful and eloquent way. I so applaud you in your ability to get beyond the pain of porn and learn to celebrate yourself no matter what your age. Though this is an old post I wrote as a guest writer for Rori, it still resonates with me. I still have baby melt downs around this subject every now and then, last night being one of them, so your comment has helped me, the “expert” of this topic.
    Thank you for being here, and thank you for you.
    xxoo tinque

    Monday, 24 August 2009 @ 6:06am

  22. 22: Radchik07No Gravatar says:

    aww, shucks! You all are doing really great stuff and helping women!!! Thanks for you too! A sexually and emotionally fulfilled woman is a happy woman and we can all do it, no matter what our age, shape or status. We are all juicy goddesses and Sirens!

    Monday, 24 August 2009 @ 11:00am

  23. 23: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Amen to juiciness!!! Yum…

    Monday, 24 August 2009 @ 11:04am

  24. 24: Radchik07No Gravatar says:

    Here’s a website exploring what is visually erotic for women that may interest you all;
    http://community.livejournal.com/thefemalegaze. The women who run it have lauched a new magazine caleed Filament in Britain that challenges the idea that women don’t look at visual erotic images. Personally I think we have been taught its “bad” along with any female sexual expression. As Rumi says ” Out past the ideas of good and bad, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. “

    Monday, 24 August 2009 @ 11:20am

  25. 25: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Actually science has found that women become aroused via images more quickly than men. One of the big differences is that our arousal is not visible. Due to whatever circumstances, upbringing, religion, society, personal issues etc. we are often unaware of our arousal. Women also become aroused by a greater variety of images than do men meaning heterosexual men obviously become aroused by images of women who they find attractive whether it be a smile or a body part or the whole figure, clothed or unclothed. Homosexual men are aroused by other men for the same reasons. Women on the other hand become aroused by men and other women just as easily whether we be straight or otherwise meaning our sexuality is far more fluid. Studies have also shown that we also become aroused by viewing animals having sex. Men not so much if at all. It takes a deep awareness of ourselves to tap into this almost constant arousal. And thus our juiciness.
    (Thank you for the site referral.) xxoo

    Monday, 24 August 2009 @ 11:34am

  26. 26: just meNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Tinque, thanks for your insight about this issue. Its actually quite a problem for me as a previous boyfriend stopped having sex with me and turned to watching porn. We went about 9 months with no sex and then i could only get him to have sex with me if we were watching porn. Obviously not a healthy relationship and it has left me scarred (i didn’t really have a problem with watching porn before this). My current boyfriend told me in the beginning he didn’t need to watch porn because he had me. well now we are about a year into the relationship and he has started watching porn on a regular basis and our sex life isn’t what it used to be. I’m worried about a repeat of the previous relationship and wanted him to stop. So he promised me he wouldn’t watch it and stopped. Then I caught him watching it again and was upset because he promised me and then did it anyway. He just doesn’t understand and I wish I could just get over it, but it hasn’t been so easy.

    Friday, 9 October 2009 @ 3:55am

  27. 27: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Just me, Welcome, and Tinque is your girl. She coaches by phone, so email her (find her on her blog) — and we’ll talk more about it here. There is a HUGE difference between an issue that doesn’t affect your relationship negatively, and something that DOES. And as Tinque will tell you, sometimes you can change the category your situation falls in. It’s always worth a try…but then you must know when to say “enough.” Love, Rori

    Tuesday, 13 October 2009 @ 7:58pm

  28. 28: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Hi just me,
    I just wanted to let you know I saw your request for help around this what can be a VERY painful issue. I will write more later, but for now I suggest you explore my site. I’ve written A LOT about this and what I did to heal myself. Clicking on my name here will take you there. You can also contact me directly if that feels more comfortable to you.
    I’m so glad you’re here.
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 14 October 2009 @ 7:27am

  29. 29: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    just me – I want you to know I’ve been thinking about you but don’t know how best to help you in that I’m not sure what you are asking of me here.
    I understand you fear a repeat of before, and that’s a very real fear. Asking for promises, as in this case asking your man to stop, doesn’t work. When someone feels restricted in any way, even if it’s something they don’t particularly want to do, the restriction acts as a lure. We all have rules imposed on us, such as the government, work, as well as our childhood demons. A man wants nothing more than to feel safe with his woman and to experience her as a freeing force, not a restrictive one. He gets more than enough of that already.
    It seems as though he is increasingly turning to porn rather than be with you. Is it because he feels restricted by you? Is it stress? Something else? Have you asked to share it with him? Have you told him how you FEEL? For example, “I feel insecure when our sex life diminishes. I miss you. I miss feeling close to you. What do you think? Can you help me with this?”
    Please let me know how else I can help you, just me.
    xxoo

    Thursday, 15 October 2009 @ 9:02am

  30. 30: HypnoticNo Gravatar says:

    Hi Tinque and Rori,
    I find this to be a very,very important post.I realize that it is an older one,but I want to be able to bring life back to it….I feel curious as to the lack of comments,since as Tinque says 90% of men view porn….I feel shaky and anxious as I type,but will continue…I have followed for a while,but am now finding the courage to speak….
    My main man…is into porn…We spoke about it openly from the beginning…I felt weird at first,but since he is so open I am feeling more comfortable with it….I admire your courage Tinque…I feel awed.
    I am exploring my boundaries with this….There are things I know that I want to work through,and I tell MM about it..I want to be able to pose for him to take pictures….He said he would replace some of the pics he has with me….I want to very much but am feeling shy and weird about it.Yet he has seen every inch of me….go figure.
    The porn on his computer is very limited…..
    He has shown me!!!
    MM says…”I am a guy,this is what guys do”,but my heart is with you”……I feel encouraged
    I am curious about Fantasies…….
    MM sometimes talks fantasy talk in bed!!!!
    I am starting to enjoy it and have been engaging him….I feel quite turned on by it……..I feel surprised by that….We have made some of those fantasies come true….I feel all sultry porn star when that happens.I feel free and amazing in my sexuality.
    My problem is that sometimes he will veer in a certain direction and I am completely turned off,and then a glorious sexual experience comes to a grinding halt…….I then feel disconnected from him…I feel embarrassed,and shameful…….MM is always very loving when this happens and just holds me……..I feel worried that He will want to make these Fantasies that scare the life out of me come true ,and then I am insecure,and I feel I am not enough and he will not want to remain sexually exclusive with me…..I want to turn this around…..I want to trust that they are only Fantasies,and talk…like MM says they are.He says he uses this as a turn on.I feel blocked here..I want to work through the fear,and be able to just let him talk.I know that some of my boundaries are to important to me to be pushed….We do have a glorious delicious sex life,but he still tends to go talking where he knows I will not….What do you think?

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 8:51am

  31. 31: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Hypnotic – I first want to applaud you in your courage to speak up. I know how hard it is at first. You can feel so alone in this.
    Have you looked at my site? If you click on my name or picture, it will take you there. I have several more articles on this subject, more detailed which give more suggestions in dealing.
    I also have an e-book which is only $20 that discusses not only porn, for this is not usually the only factor. It also talks about ways to boost your self-esteem, ways to feel better in all ways, about yourself as well, tools for opening your mind and your heart, and more.
    I also give you my story or some of it.
    Know this too that the more I opened my heart to all of this, the less K has been into looking at porn though this diminished looking didn’t come about right away. It evolved over time.
    He used to feel he “needed” it to some extent, (though need is not the right word) because it had been such a habit for so long, but over time he has come to find that he really doesn’t. (He hasn’t told me this. It’s been an observation on my part.)
    Now all that said, it sounds to me from what you say here that your man is very much into YOU, has no interest in straying. His fantasies and his talk are sometimes scaring you. Is it maybe in part because there’s more to YOU than you knew, more “out there” stuff that turns you on? Is there fear in this?
    Or is really your man’s limits or at the moment seeming lack thereof that truly scare you?
    You’ve been amazingly courageous in exploring what you have with him. And you have discovered parts of you that you didn’t know were there. That’s awesome.
    Your man sounds sensitive to your boundaries. This is great. It’s a step by step thing for you. If he’s going beyond what you feel comfortable with at that moment, then you tell him so.
    “I’m feeling uncomfortable with this. Can we try something else? can we go back to what we were doing?” “It would feel good to close my eyes and just feel what’s happening in my body, no sound.” Or something along those lines.
    So now that I’ve tried to clarify some things for myself and for you, I’m not sure what you are asking me.
    I would love it if you could check out more of what I’ve written and then see how you feel, what you think.
    Please feel free to ask any more questions here, or you can e-mail me personally if that feels better. The address is on my site.
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 9:27am

  32. 32: HypnoticNo Gravatar says:

    tinque,
    I am feeling so grateful and happy inside right now!!!
    Thank you so much for the applause and the time you have taken with your response to me.
    Although you say that you are not sure what I was asking you……you have given me an answer…I feel soooo heard and excited to try something new.
    Instead of disconnecting and recoiling I am going to try to give the feeling message you suggested…..
    “It would feel good to just close my eyes and feel what is happening in my body right now,no sound”…….It’s brilliant…I have used I am feeling uncomfortable before and that I now see is what brings things to a halt….Light bulb!!!!!…..because then we both are uncomfortable….I know he wants me to be comfortable.

    You have also given me some profound questions to ask myself..I want to explore that….On the surface I feel the fear comes from his lack of limits in the moment…I have just signed on to your website as I am now more in “awe” of you than ever.
    Thankyou for the invitation to email you personally….I feel a connection to you and will probably do that……

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 11:16am

  33. 33: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Hypnotic – I’m so happy that I could help. It’s rare that I can’t get back to you very quickly if only to say when I will, so please, anytime…
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 11:39am

  34. 34: HypnoticNo Gravatar says:

    Just one more little blurb I want to share…….cause I am on a roll here!
    When I am in panic mode,and trying to get out feeling messages,MM always,always….in many different ways…some quite amusing actually…does his best to convey his love for me.
    Here are the words he uses alot:
    “Spit it out honey,remember you are talking to a man who loves and adores you”

    Those words are etched in my brain!!!!
    It makes me feel sad to think that maybe I,along with many others may have lost a great man’s love along the way because of a resistance to or misunderstanding of….. “PORN”…..It also makes me feel happy because it is also proof positive that feeling messages work……even if you have not mastered them yet.

    Thanks again Tinque for the tip!!
    Hugs back atchya….I will let you know how it works.

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 12:58pm

  35. 35: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    That’s so beautiful. He sounds like a wonderful guy, sensitive.
    “misunderstanding of….. “PORN”
    This is the crux of it all. Men just don’t think as we do. Porn is such a detached act on their part whereas for us it usually isn’t. We can’t help but connect with it, the people we see portrayed. They just don’t.
    Please let me know how things play out.
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 14 April 2010 @ 1:03pm

  36. 36: sensuousamNo Gravatar says:

    I’m afraid that no matter how hard I try to bend my mind I cannot get it to wrap around the idea of accepting pornography in a relationship. I feel that all I can do is never be in a relationship again.
    I am an aging women with birthing scars small saggy breasts due to breast feeding ,gray hairs and wrinkles,it hurts me profoundly that the man who I let into my body also needs the extra benefits and visual stimulation of naked women that in almost all cases are less than half my age with perfect bodies and always larger breasts than me.
    Pasts boyfriends enjoyed teen porn in our home and the last boyfriend of 4 years begged me to get a breast job at his expense because he enjoyed porn stars with large breasts.I am crushed that once again women have to accept and succumb to mens sexual needs because its just the way they are and they see it differently to us.I have spent 6 years altogether in relationships with men that told me that I had better get over my problem with porn because all men are into it,my heart breaking every day of those 6 years and when they weren’t looking at porn any women or girl for that matter that had cleavage or looked like porn stars would be noticed their energy directed at them even when holding my hand .I must be out of touch because I cannot deal with it and I would like to know if their are actually any men out there who aren’t into porn.
    Also how on earth is one to open up and move deeper into intimacy when their partner has been getting off on still and moving images of stunning naked women in the throws of pleasure.If my last two partners didn’t need porn I would have had no problem with being the open feeling feminine women moving into deeper levels of intimacy but I feel not one ounce of feminity or sacredness thanks to porn.

    Sunday, 13 June 2010 @ 6:18am

  37. 37: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    sensuousam – Welcome, and I totally hear you, and YES there are men out there who aren’t into porn – and yet you are not meeting them, which tells me your own issues and insecurities are what needs work here – what you are resisting is showing up in your life to be healed. So – focus on healing – rather than hating the porn – you really need to embrace it – no matter how difficult it feels. And this is not for a MAN!! It’s for YOU! Tinque is your ticket here…go to http://www.sexandheart.com and email her, take a session with her if you can, and see if she can reframe things for you so that you can shift things for yourself. Love, Rori

    Sunday, 13 June 2010 @ 11:39am

  38. 38: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    sensuousam – everything Rori says here is absolutely true. there are definitely men out there not into porn, but also, and this is important, men love looking at women whether it’s women out in the streets or online. It’s part of their DNA, BUT a good man looks in order to soak in feminine energy, and there is no desire on their part. It’s a boost of energy to bring to the woman they love whether she has a “perfect” body or she is aging and dropping everywhere.
    A good man will see the woman he loves and be turned on by her no matter what she looks like.
    And any man who asks you to get a boob job is NOT a good man.
    I would be happy to work with you on this.
    xxoo

    Monday, 14 June 2010 @ 8:36am

  39. 39: sensuousamNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you for kind responses however I feel I may not be able to soften to porn let alone embrace it as I have been deeply traumatized by its appearance in my life and relationships over the past 7 years, not a day goes by when I don’t think about it or compare myself to those images because to me it was more like I was just the mastabatory object of release and those women were the ones that really did it for them and they would really prefer. I do get a bit of relief knowing that there are men out there who can live without it but for now I would like to ask a few questions.If pornography is so integral to a man because of their visual nature why not let it be so that it is part of a women’s nature to be hurt by it and do men really take their time to understand why it hurts us and decide to genuinely stop or are some women just not worth giving up porn for.If I had an all round wonderful boyfriend with a little porn habit that tore me apart even when I do understand completely their desire for it and decided to accept it because he is a guy, would a man give up his porn habit for me because my dislike of it is just a female thing and it does’nt matter because I am a good catch and worth it?? One party has to suppress their nature to accommodate the other for the relationship to work and it seems to me it will have to be the women,we have to withhold our pain for their simple pleasure and they get to have sex with us too??
    I used to be proud of myself on all levels and never had hang ups about my body now I’m less than half the women and very angry and very safe as a single women, someday I will probably like a companion but I really ,really don’t want to bother with the issue of porn in another relationship again at my age and I wont so if I seem to be attracting these types of men what do I do to not attract them,I believe I could probably do something about my self esteem but is there something else I could be doing.
    Also I know the difference between a man admiring a beautiful women and feeling her energy and a man invading her for his quick sexual fix and they are usually men into pornography or predators or both. I’m sorry for going on,its just my pain talking.

    Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 5:47am

  40. 40: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    sensousam – The answer to all your questions is yes. You are more likely to find this kind of man though if you can learn to keep yourself as open and accepting as possible. If you can come back to place of deep self love.
    I fully understand how devastating this can be especially if you’ve never encountered it before.
    From my experience, the more I came to love me, the closer I came to accepting K porn and all, the less he looked at it. He hasn’t been doing this for a long time actually, but this isn’t to say he may never again, BUT, and this is important, he won’t look to simply get his rocks off or because I’m not enough for him in some way. He will look because men love looking at naked women. And that’s it. He will always be very turned on by me. He will never want porn to interfere with our sexual life. He never has and never will.
    Also as men get older, their libido drops, and this is simply extra stimulation they might want. They DO NOT bring these images to their lovemaking bed. They DO NOT desire these women secretly or otherwise. Good men that is.
    A good man will always be turned on by you and you alone with or without porn,
    And lastly thought there are certainly some men out there who enjoy porn and are predators or lascivious players, but they are way in the minority. Most men are good men, and all men enjoy looking at women. As long as it’s a quick, habitual glance born out of biology or an appreciative look, as long as he’s discrete, it’s a normal thing. If you go out with a man who openly drools, then it’s time to say, “next!”.
    xxoo

    Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 8:36am

  41. 41: jubileeNo Gravatar says:

    When a man is into porn, he’s using all of his sexual energy,or a huge part of it (masterbating). A good sign is, if you’re married and he doesn’t want to have intercourse for a week. There’s NO WAY a woman is more aroused than a man, usually. A woman is multiorgasmic, a man is NOT especially after the age of 21; there is just so much energy in his sexual apparatus. Even men in their 60’s wants it at least once a week, it’s a sign of love for them also.

    Friday, 18 June 2010 @ 11:03pm

  42. 42: jubileeNo Gravatar says:

    The key is MARRIAGE!!….and when youre married, Please don’t turn your husband down—it’s like affection is to us—would you like your husband not hugging you? *gasp* Read Proverbs 5:18-19—does that sound religious to you? Yes! that’s the BIBLE!

    Friday, 18 June 2010 @ 11:11pm

  43. 43: oceanNo Gravatar says:

    I was sort of on the fence about porn, or rather, just hadn’t given it much thought at all until this year when the man I was sleeping with revealed his porn addiction to me (I’m one of those people who just never knew it was so prevalent until recently). It was a call for help, and he chose to tell me partly because I’ve gone through a serious addiction myself and am now sober 4 years. He is literally desperate to quit, and says it’s ruined his life, health, and self-esteem. He is suicidal over it because no matter how he tries, he hasn’t been able to quit.

    Anyway, since then I’ve done some investigating into porn addiction, as well as the social issues it calls up. I’ve been helping him to understand the nature of addictions and he has kept me posted about his journey. It’s very very tough, no easier than an alcohol or heroin addiction. But other than the addiction issues I’ve also, in the process, come across a lot of information about porn, different view points, and found what I consider to be the truth about porn on a feminist blog by a hilarious and incredibly bright writer. This experience has let me come into my own truth about my feelings toward porn and porn use. This woman put my heart into words. I’m not going to summarize it here but if you’re interested check out her porn series – http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/04/12/why-porn-isnt-cool-part-1/

    To say the least it’s incredibly enlightening, and has brought me to a place of peace about it terms of defining my own views. I won’t tolerate porn in my relationship, or home. I stand against it because it hurts people – men, women, and children. The porn of today is not pretty, or sexy, or a turn on to me at all. It’s repulsive, and ironically has little to do with sex. I’m more interested in exploring sexuality differently, and without degradation or dehumanization of women. Every part of me finds that offensive: mind, body, heart and soul. Sex is the most beautiful, most amazing thing in the world to me, but I see none of that reflected in contemporary porn.

    I understand that some women may feel fine having it in their relationships, and I may have been too at one time, but after I educated myself about the realities, I was like, no way. This is a huge issue we all face these days, for ourselves and our children, I think it’s really important that we all be aware of the implications of porn before we allow it into our homes. I’m not one to tell anyone else what to do, I just feel it’s so vital that we be informed, before deciding whether or not we choose be a party to it.

    Wednesday, 1 September 2010 @ 5:33am

  44. 44: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Ocean – Though I understand perfectly what you are saying here, and in many cases this is all true, not all porn is degrading for either the men or the women. There is some that is sensuous and erotic. I agree that the vast bulk of it is for want of a better word, gross, but not all, and it can be a fun and nice thing to share.
    I also want to empathize with your man’s addiction. Like any addiction, it’s rough, a hard road.
    Watching porn is not synonymous with addiction though. You or anyone can look at it even as much as on a daily basis and still not have an addiction.
    I understand your choice not to have it around you at all, but you may be hard pressed to find a man who does not like to look from time to time.
    I hope you can find one.
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 1 September 2010 @ 7:27am

  45. 45: dorotheaNo Gravatar says:

    Since this thread popped up in recent comments, I thought I would chime in with my 2 cents about porn.

    Once I accidentally found pictures on my man’s harddrive of him with other women. 2 of them. at once. I guess I would have saved those photos too. haha. it made me feel f*cking awful because i recognized one of the women in the photos…she made my coffee every morning at the bakery. oh lordy

    He and I talked it through and I am now over it. For real. It wasn’t at all easy and it nearly ended our relationship. But now I am not feeling triggered talking about it. Mostly amused.

    A couple of weeks ago I saw some porn site pop up in the address bar of my man’s computer when we were typing something in. I felt curious and insecure so I did some investigating into the site. The girls were not like me at all. I felt awful again. Like, I am not what he wants…so he looks at these girls instead.

    Wrong.

    I never brought it up to him, and I talked to my girl about it and she was like “all this indicates is that he has good taste in porn.” She is right. The fact that he watches porn does not mean that I am not good enough.

    Now here’s the thing…I watch porn too. Maybe even more than he does. Maybe just as much. We haven’t really talked much about it. But I probably hide my porn fetish as much as he hides his. But the fact that I watch porn does not mean that he is not good enough.

    I’m not sure I would feel comfortable sharing this fetish with him as part of our sex life. I don’t think our sex life needs anything else to enhance it anyway. Maybe when we live together we will find some lovely way to enjoy it together. Possibilities are, of course, endless.

    I feel a twinge of insecurity when I see evidence of his porn or masturbation, but I think I probably watch porn and masturbate as much or more than he does. So this is one battle I will not pick.

    Afterall, I might not be a “young teen” petite and hairless, but he chooses me with zeal. He gets aroused just being around me, and loves me dearly. What more could I ask for to feel sexy? He chooses me.

    My ex, on the other hand, was into porn in a way that hurt our relationship. He was losing interest in me sexually, and talked frequently about getting me to start a porn site of my own. He wanted us to watch it together. I was not cool with this. I felt pressured and not good enough.

    Wednesday, 1 September 2010 @ 8:03am

  46. 46: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Yes dorothea, yes. As long as you as a woman are not being neglected, then this is a habit or maybe just a pastime. It is NOT a reflection on you at all.
    If ever you were taking second place to the porn, then yes this would be a problem, otherwise, it’s just something most men and many women do.
    xxoo

    Wednesday, 1 September 2010 @ 8:28am

  47. 47: JuliaNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Rori. Thank you for all your hard work! I have bought 2 of your programs ,, the relationship you want and modern siren.. I have used and shared your valuable site and e-letters with vigor! So, heres is my short story,, Ive been with lance for 2 years. Every so often my 6th sence would kick in and I would percieve something going on with him,, It felt like he ‘left’ our relationship for periods of time and I would go off the deep end inside ,. The last ‘event’ led to a 2week split and then the truth out.
    He has a foot fetish,, this is fine with me,, I can manage this. The thing I’m struggling with is he is attracted to transsexuals. I really don’t know how I feel about this,, I don’t want to place restrictions on him but I need to honor myself as well. Any suggestions?

    Thursday, 9 September 2010 @ 9:50am

  48. 48: StacyNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t know how to do this with my husband. I talk about my feelings, I do my own thing, I try to be open but nothing ever works for me. I seem to always say the wrong thing and when I listen to him, he says things that make me feel even worse. I don’t know how to talk or act or be sexual with him because I only feel like he is comparing me to someone else. There have been affairs in our past but I don’t think he’s a bad guy. I think he is really trying to make me understand and sometimes he’s brutally honest and I just take it. I’m 35 and I’m totally lost and someone else is getting the best of my man.

    Monday, 24 January 2011 @ 10:24am

  49. 49: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Stacy – so sorry for your situation. I would truly like you to let go of this man and focus on healing the part of yourself that feels so incompetent. You AREN’T incompetent. At the most, you need to learn some skills – but you are a fabulous woman!! That’s what needs to take over your heart and brain! Love, Rori

    Monday, 24 January 2011 @ 3:47pm

  50. 50: StacyNo Gravatar says:

    I want to learn these skills Rori. I don’t want to be this way and I don’t want to end up staying alone in fear that I’ll be the same way with someone else. What did I do wrong? I have been reading post after post and looked through all of your CD’s but I don’t even know where to start. I talked him tonight (we’re separated) and told him I missed him and and told him that it was important for me to know what he’s thinking but he has found someone that knows the ropes and he told me he chose to stay with her. What is wrong with me? I’m losing all I know as a family and I feel so messed up. I’ve invested 15 yrs with him and struggled through the pain of 4 deployments. I’m a very independent women, I’m not drama, and he tells me I’ve been the best wife but what does that mean if he doesn’t want to be married to me? That means I wasn’t a good wife. I don’t understand because he has been so confused about wanting to leave and wanting to come home but I’m still left missing him. I don’t feel fabulous.

    Thursday, 27 January 2011 @ 5:27pm

  51. 51: IanNo Gravatar says:

    I found some interesting statistics about the relationship between pornography and divorce.

    – The Internet was a significant factor in 2 out of 3 divorces (Am. Academy of
    Matrimonial Lawyers in 2003 – divorcewizards.com)
    – Pornography use was correlated with an increase in infidelity of more than 300%. (Other factors may have also contributed to the infidelity, but it was a factor.)
    – 56% of divorces involved one party having an obsessive interest in porn.
    I just learned about this new software – http://www.partnerguard.com
    For couples that are trying to work together, do you think this could be helpful?

    Monday, 7 March 2011 @ 8:07pm

  52. 52: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Ian – I think if you feel compelled to resort to checking up on your partner in any way, then there are some trust issues at hand whether they be something you just sense is not right or whether it be some wound you carry around from your past.

    In either case snooping is not the way to go, talking is. The truth surfaces regardless. Better to air suspicions than carry on behind someone’s back. If you’re right, you feel bad. If you’re wrong you feel bad and guilty.

    In your the statistics cited, this could be a factor, but I don’t know that’s it’s just porn. I think it’s the internet in general which can and is highly addictive, FB, games, and porn, etc.

    Porn has been around forever. Yes it’s more easily accessible with the internet, and yes it’s becoming a growing problem with younger people who are increasingly having difficulty having a real relationship with a real, live person, but the vast majority of men still have a good handle on what’s real and what’s fantasy or a two dimensional not real arousal maker.

    xxoo

    Tuesday, 8 March 2011 @ 6:42am

  53. 53: leeNo Gravatar says:

    porn; bk in the early 80″s fun-when your young dumb& full of.Im burnt, now its disgusting&degrading. my now ex&just a sick a__, roomate,dumped me cause i didnt wnt to be his porn flick! he eats breaths lives for porn! his rm has 2 tv”s& a comp.hes got all 3 going all the time,unless theres a good normal movie on. but the other 2 are still on! he has company their on, unless a married gal says hey. the young sluts that visit, wtch w/him just to rub in my face i know hes secretly taped a couple of these slts messing around, ive found a couple of pits of me when i was in bdrm&asleep! he takes pits of himself masterbating! so im sorry but to me porn is as sick as my ex!

    Saturday, 30 April 2011 @ 5:02pm

  54. 54: Isis feministNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Rori and all the brave women who’ve talked about their experiences with pornography here,

    I’m a newcomer to your programs (I just started using Love Skripts for dating about 20 days ago) and so far I am finding it very helpful, actually almost magical at times; I’m finding that, when I stick with feeling messages and can stay focused on what’s going on with me rather than trying to please him, men really are more likely to hear me, and some of them actually seem to *care* if something they’re doing causes me pain! That feels AWESOME!
    Unlike most of my young women peers these days, I do proudly identify myself as a feminist. For me, feminism isn’t about trying to “embrace masculinity” or be like a man at all, but about recognizing the ways patriarchy hurts women and children, as well as men who don’t live up to machismo standards. To me, it feels wonderful when men are gentle, soft, and not hard like patriarchy says they ought to be–it makes me feel strong & good about myself when men don’t turn sex into something that’s about them being dominant and active, and women being passive, “done to” objects (which, sorry, is how I feel like pornography portrays us).
    I think pornography gives men an unfair advantage in sex, because it makes it possible for men to just pick up a woman (or film footage or images of women–who are actually real people, human beings, not fantasy), *use* the woman in the picture for sexual release, and then put her away when they’re done; It doesn’t feel good to be used by somebody, and I’m not comfortable giving men that kind of power; to me as a woman, it feels degrading. I think porn teaches men not to relate to women as real human beings, and, whether or not they’re still able to maintain more humane relationships with the women in their lives they feel respect for (like Tinque’s partner), they’re still treating those women they use to masturbate to in pornography as subhuman. That feels painful to think about, and that’s why I think most women really try to find some way to reconcile themselves to men’s porn use as Tinque has been doing, but I just can’t. That would feel horrible to me! It makes me feel hopeless because I know something like 85% of men out there admit to having masturbated to porn at some point in the past 5 months. I feel overwhelmed and so sad sometimes, like I’ll probably never be able to find a partner who doesn’t use it, but, if I’m honest with myself, that’s the relationship I want for myself–and that’s something I can’t give up on. I want, and deserve, a love life that’s pornography free.
    It would be painful for me to give too many details about my own personal history here, but I’m a survivor of childhood abuse involving pornography as well. I was exposed to it at an early age, and it really impacted the way I viewed myself sexually as a woman. I learned from my Dad’s porn use that women are supposed to be passive in sex, and I felt humiliated when I saw the women pictured, because I could see my own body in theirs, and it felt like my body was just this hole to be penetrated or ejaculated over. That’s the mindset I think men are in when they use women in porn, and mostly the women in it are presented as young, airbrushed, or, as some women have mentioned here, they are really violently degraded. Mainstream pornography today is so overtly misogynist, with men gang raping women, doing stuff like ATMs, double penetration, as well as just fetishizing women’s “consenting” to be degraded & put in positions that make us look weak. I think that does affect a man’s heart, and his spirit; there are numerous studies that have shown even short term use of pornography, in and of itself, impacts a man’s view towards women as a class, even making him less likely to believe a woman rape victim. I don’t expect a man to be perfect Rori, and I know most men I date will have used porn at some point in their lives. But, what I have to go on believing is that, if I told a man from my heart, “Your pornography use hurts me, or, it makes me feel so sad inside, so bad about being a woman, like my heart is crushed & broken,” that he would then stop using it for me, or at least begin to try, for me as well as the rest of the women & girls in this world that porn hurts. I hope you aren’t saying it’s not okay to ask a man for that kind of love by posting Tinque’s words here? I’ve done activist work in the women’s movement alongside women survivors of the sex industry, and honestly, so many, many women who end up there are survivors of sexual abuse themselves; many women & men who work in porn end up with HIV or other STDs, and many more feel so broken after they’ve been deemed “used up” that they even commit suicide. The women aren’t fantasy. They’re real. And they feel pain, just like we do. I felt pain over my dad’s porn use growing up, and it made my mother feel like she wasn’t enough for him. I learned from it to feel like I could never, ever expect to have a man’s love all to myself, and it’s been so hard struggling to overcome that insecurity. Men who use porn generally have wives and daughters, or sons, and it impacts them too. I don’t know of any stats that say most men who use porn still have a good handle on how to relate to women, but I feel like maybe that’s something women tell ourselves, because we don’t want to deal with how angry and helpless it feels to know a man in our lives can hear about our pain, and still keep right on using it. It feels to me like Tinque (and I’m speaking to you rori, rather than her, because it just feels less scary) is asking women to accept a multibillion dollar a year industry that basically profits off of sexualizing women’s pain, fuels demand for sexually trafficked girls & women, and uses prostituted women in production as well. I think many women have no idea how widereaching the impact of the sex industry is. I honestly think women wouldn’t feel compelled to sell ourselves as sex as well, if that weren’t still the main value or only asset women have, according to our porn-influenced popculture. It just makes me feel so angry that women are expected to behave as though this isn’t torturously painful, and I actually think it insults those brave men out there, who DO want to treat ALL women as fully human. There are men out there like that, and if you want to hear a feminist male perspective on it, Robert Jensen is a great guy to check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t97Um-AaAM I’d also say to women here who have been personally hurt by porn, check out groups like Stop Porn Culture–there ARE men involved in that who care, and just seeing them in action can make you feel a little less hopeless, or at least that helps me. Thanks Rori for bringing up this topic, and for not ridiculing women who can’t get on board the porn bandwagon as “prudish” or any of the other insults we have to deal with. It feels really scary to speak out against pornography online with people I don’t know, as, particularly as a younger woman, I’ve gotten used to being made fun of as “old-fashioned” or “frigid” for it…but I want to come up with my own loving, feminist, egalitarian sexuality, rather than twisting myself into knots trying to accept the misogynist one porn puts forward. I just can’t do that anymore.

    Sunday, 3 July 2011 @ 10:47am

  55. 55: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Isis Feminist – I feel sad for all the pain that porn has and continues to cause you.

    I agree with you on mostly everything you say here. Porn can be a very destructive force, and it seems to me to be an increasing problem with the internet age and the ease of accessibility. Young men today are being introduced to sex in a distorted way.

    That said most men do know the difference. And a man’s brain does not work the same way as a woman’s when viewing images such as these.

    The images are turn ons, yes objects of turn on, yet the woman put themselves there, and in most cases, they are not coerced to do so.

    I think you it’s perfectly okay to ask a man not to look at this stuff if it hurts you. I did.

    But I found that most men will agree to keep you and then go underground with it. For a good man who is very clear on the difference between a two dimensional image and his beloved, looking at things which turn him is to him no big deal at all.

    A good man will rarely if ever “be with” the images in his head and on his computer screen. A good man will bring his arousal home to his beloved, not spill all over his own belly.

    For me personally, the more I was able to let this one go and not make a deal out if it at all even if it still hurt me and bothered e sometimes, the less he looked at this stuff.

    He no longer does at all unless we’re watching a sexy movie together, one which has a real story, one which is arousing for both of us.

    I know the sex trade poses some horribly painful and real problems, and I’m not suggesting to just give up fighting this, but this is something far ore serious then porn.

    Porn in whatever form has been around from the beginning (go have a look at ancient greek and roman art for example) and it’s unlikely that it will ever go away.

    It’s not all misogynistic or demeaning. It’s not all about objectifying.

    Please consider this.

    xxoo

    Monday, 4 July 2011 @ 8:13am

  56. 56: Isis feministNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Tinque,

    Thank you very much for your response. I can tell you put your thought & time into it. I had written a lengthy response out to you here, and then my connection fizzled for a second, and I lost it all. I’ll try again, though it may not be as good, but I want to say that I do tend to feel really overwhelmed sometimes by internet discussions with women who defend men’s porn use on some level at least, so I don’t know how long I’ll feel able to engage with you. My name is Stephanie Cleveland, I’m a poet & essayist, and I’ve done activist work around pornography as an issue of violence against women since I was in my early twenties. If you google me, stuff should come up.

    Without saying much more right now, I really would be curious to know your or your husband’s response to the Robert Jensen interview I included, here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t97Um-AaAM
    His definition of pornography is the one I’m speaking about as well, and he addresses your arguement about Greek and Roman paintings on sex–he says human beings have always explored sexuality and that’s appropriate, but what we are talking about now is a multibillion dollar a year industry that profits off the sale of women, the sexual degradation of women (as Noam Chomsky has put it–and I’m just including that because I feel like people listen to men more on this than women like me), and is marketted almost exclusively to guys. I have no problems with a man I’m involved with masturbating on his own; the image you give of a guy ejaculating on his belly actually feels kind of sweet to me, this is not about me needing him to bring me all his semen or anything like that. In my poetry, I’ve often explored themes of sex, and I wouldn’t care if a man masturbated to something I wrote, or something another woman wrote, as long as it wasn’t about humiliation. The problem for me comes in with buying and selling women as fuckable commodity. Did you know that most women who enter the porn industry via “feature films”–the stuff with a story line you mention–generally “depriciate in value” (makes me feel gross to even be talking about a woman, a human being, like this, but that’s how the industry really works) very quickly in the porn world. What that means is, men get tired of seeing the same woman’s face, they don’t have any heart connection with her afterall, so after a while they get bored, looking at her getting done gets old, so she can’t get hired to do feature porn films anymore more, the work to which she originally “consented.” So she has to take on more degrading roles, embark on body-punishing sex acts, in order to find work. I think many women feel more comfortable blaming the women in the industry for being there as a way of coping with what their men are choosing to look at; but the sad truth is, you and your husband have no way of knowing for sure what motivated a woman to go into porn. I could cite stats for you that something close to 80% of women who become porn performers were molested as children, and certainly we live in a culture that teaches women to think of our main value in terms of what we look like, how young we are, weather or not men want sex with us. This feels incredibly sad to me, and I think supporting porn only reinforces it.

    On a personal level, I remember having heated arguments with my father on this; like you, he claimed that the women in his magazines chose to be there, and so, they deserved what they got and the pornographers had a right to present them anyway they wanted. One day I worked up the nerve to challenge my Dad on this, asking him if he would want ME to go into pornography, to be photographed & portrayed the way the women in his magazines were. He literally fell silent. He had no answer for me. As his daughter, I was a real human being to him; he couldn’t imagine seeing me degraded like that, or having other men use me like I was nothing but a two dimensional fuck hole. He was able to look at other women that way, only by convincing himself that they weren’t real people at all, even though the truth is, they were. Women in porn are not two dimensional, that’s were men really confuse things. These women are not fantasy, but real women with real feelings. They too, are somebody’s daughter.

    It would feel awful to me to be with a man who could numb himself to that fact, who could treat other women as things to pick up, use as stimulus, and then put aside. Honestly, I would feel less sad if he had an affair with the woman down the street–at least then he would have to relate to her as a person to get sex from her, he wouldn’t be able to fool himself into thinking she was subhuman or that her feelings didn’t count. Let him make or buy drawings, or read about women if he likes that, but using pornography is more than that–these are women, and the fact that most women who feel they can get their needs met in other ways don’t go into porn or prostitution really says something. Many women end up destroyed by the sex industry. I don’t want men to be able to lose sight of that.

    I don’t think this is an issue of a “good” man or a “bad” man. I think all of us have the potential to engage the parts of ourselves that are kind, compassionate & loving–the best parts of each of us–or to fall into patterns of numbing, callousness towards the pain of others, and fear. I went through a period of trying to force myself to accept porn because I felt so afraid I would never find a partner willing to give it up if I asked him. And I will share with you that I don’t think there is some innate difference between the way men and women can respond to images of sexual degradation–I can, if I choose, look at pictures of men being degraded, objectified, humiliated, even raped or hurt, and I can orgasm to that. It feeds the part of me that feels anger towards men and wants revenge. I think porn engages a part of men that feels contempt, even hatred for women, but it does it in an underground way that’s destructive & widens the distance between women & men. Pornographers don’t want men to feel happy & satisfied with just their partners, because then those men wouldn’t spend money on porn, wouldn’t buy things. After I would masturbate to pornographic images of men (and I had to use gay porn–there was almost nothing that treated men as subordinated objects for women) I felt empty and lonely, and I think many men who get addicted to porn feel that way too–I don’t think they are “bad,” they just don’t know where to go with those feelings. Of course some men just don’t care, or are beyond reach, but I think we do many men a real disservice if we automatically assume they can’t be asked to give up porn completely. If men understand what porn says about women, how it destroys women’s self esteem & causes so many women & girls harm, then, in asking them to question their use of it, we’re giving them a chance to show their courage, to engage the best parts of themselves. That’s actually an incredibl honor to give a man, it’s like saying, “I believe in your goodness, your compassion, & your humanity–you can do this, I love you, & I have faith in you!” I feel like sex is something you can use to know yourself, and have a deep, human connection. If a man tunes in on what’s going on with his own body when he masturbates, he gets more in touch with his heart, rather than distracting himself with pictures of women “out there” too. Your words about resigning yourself to your husband’s porn use and adapting to his prefferences or trying to get onboard with it leave me feeling sad, hopeless, and I honestly feel anger towards you. If women don’t even try to get their men to stop using porn, it makes it easier for a guy to point to you and say to women like me who don’t like it, “Why can’t you be more like HER? Why are you so sensitive & uptight? She accepted it, you’re a failure!” And that’s why I think women try so hard to be okay with porn–we are all so scared to displease men, it’s really true.

    In the program of hers that I have, there’s a part where Rori says people tend to assume we are all separate, but that she doesn’t happen to believe that, that we’re actually all connected, and our choices impact one another. If I know there’s this massive industry that’s proffiting from women’s pain, if I know women (& men) are really being destroyed by it, then I can’t stand back and say, “this doesn’t affect me, I’m not responsible.” If I’m also not honest with men about why this is unacceptable, why it makes me profoundly sad as a woman, then I’m kind of part of the problem. That’s about all I can really say I think. Thanks for taking time to listen, & take care, S

    Monday, 4 July 2011 @ 12:37pm

  57. 57: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Stephanie – I feel your passion around this, yet I have to say I don’t feel heard. I completely agree with you about much of the porn industry. A lot of it is just as you say. And there are many men who are addicted, and there just as many men who wouldn’t dream of looking at the degrading, humiliating stuff and feel as horrified as you and me too for that matter at some the stuff that gets released.

    There is also plenty of porn which is not at all humiliating, degrading in any way at all, eg. a woman masturbating or a couple having what looks like passionate sex.

    Yes many women in the industry have been molested as you say though I’ve heard it’s around 60% and some of these same women have lots to heal. And there are a great many who enjoy what they do.

    Do most get burned out or end up in a not so great place. Yes indeed.

    Yet we are inundated with images which are sexual in nature, advertising is all about sex it seems, mainstream movies are rampant with it.

    And it is male instinct to enjoy looking at naked women. It just is. And many women too enjoy looking at naked bodies and people having sex.

    So where do you draw the line?

    If a man enjoys looking at naked images to turn himself FOR YOU, what’s the harm in this? Is he only allowed to look at you in the nude? What about those movies I mentioned, naked women and men too galore in them, regular films, not porn? What about erotic films which have an interesting story line and which portray real looking people having real looking sex? What’s okay, and what’s not?

    In my case it was very clear that my man DID NOT have a problem with porn. If I hadn’t happened upon it, to this day I would not know because it NEVER affected our relationship in any way.

    And when I let go of my energy around porn, it ended up going away, and I didn’t have to say anything. I did express how I felt around it and then let it go. Leaving him alone to do what he had to do, over time this habit of his went away.

    In other words the good in him and our relationship far outweighed this one thing which was MY trigger into far more primal things which needed addressing and healing. If he had had an addiction, the story would have played out very differently.

    Is there a double standard around this? Yes I think there is. Men are able to to compartmentalize this in ways most women cannot fathom.

    So Stephanie I respect and admire your fight, and you need to do what feels right to you. I just don’t know where you or I or anyone else can draw that line into what’s acceptable and what isn’t.

    Thursday, 7 July 2011 @ 2:14pm

  58. 58: Isis feministNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque,

    I’m sorry if my words are upsetting for you. I don’t feel heard by you in this discussion either, for whatever that’s worth; I feel saddened by your responses, maybe because, for the most part, they’re identical to ones I’ve heard many times before, from women who embrace porn on some level; these words don’t feel new or innovative to me; rather, they feel like arguments that I know some women may feel more comfortable addressing–but, in general, I don’t think they’re direct responses to the points I’d like to make about my problems with porn.

    As a woman, men’s pornography use makes me feel really, really shitty. Yes, pornography is a trigger for me, and yes, I am very sensitive to men’s use of it. I don’t want to watch footage of a man thrusting into a woman. It makes me feel bad about having a female body myself. It makes me feel weak and passive, and degraded. It makes me not want to have sex for fear a man will be thinking of me the way women are portrayed in porn. I will have these feelings weather or not the thrusting and penetrating and whatever else porn defines as “sex” is surrounded by a story line, hearts, flowers, or whatever. Sex is private. Pornography feels like a violation of the woman’s privacy in it, and of the dignity and privacy of MY body as a woman. I see myself in the women being fucked on screen. I feel proud of my ability to admit my feelings of saddness around this issue. I feel brave and strong when I am able to say to a man, “porn does not feel good to me,” and I love feeling that feeling of courage.

    Perhaps it would be helpful to define terms here. Wendy Maltz is a licensed marriage and family counselor, and a certified sex therapist; I’ve found her work really helpful in my own path to healing.
    She makes a distinction between porn and erotica that might feel useful to you, I don’t know; in speaking to abuse survivors about the important work of trying to heal sexual wounds and create a healthy sex life, she says:

    “Avoid exposure to things that reinforce the sexual abuse mind-set. Avoid television shows, movies, books, magazines, and other influences that portray sex as sexual abuse. Pornography is harmful to sexual healing. It conveys the idea of unlimited sexual access to women, children, and men. Pornography exploits people who act in it as well as the public who buys it. It uses sexual stimulation to make money, reinforcing the commodity view of sex. Pornography evokes strong emotions, such as fear and excitement, and encourages sexual arousal to abusive ideas and images. Pornography depicts sex from the perspective of someone who has compulsive and unhealthy sexual interests. Pornography gives us destructive and false impressions about sex. It makes sexual aggression appear pleasurable, increasing our tolerance of coercion in sexual relations. Pornography teaches that one can never have enough sex; one never reaches a state of satisfaction or satiety with sex.”

    She goes on to define positive eroticia, as opposed to pornography:

    “Though they can be hard to find, some movies, books and magazines use sexual stories and imagery without being abusive. I call these positive erotica. The sexual relationships they describe exist in a healthy sex context, with mutuality, respect, safety, relaxed fun, and so on. Unlike pornography, these erotic materials can increase awareness of our sensuality and pleasurable connectedness with a partner.”

    If what you are trying to speak about is the use of positive erotica with a spouse, it feels EXTREMELY dangerous to me to use the term “pornography,” as though that’s synonymous. I don’t want to go there. I also don’t share your views about male sexual instinct (or think they are verifiable). Certainly I think men can have a healthy, natural desire to enjoy physically experiencing a female lover. Women have that same capacity towards men, though we are encouraged not to give ourselves the freedom to look, or enjoy men’s naked bodies visually, and men are not encouraged to make themselves beautiful for us (though, if you look back in history, beyond classical Greece, to more matriarchal cultures, that has not always been the case). I do enjoy men visually myself, and I know other women who do. And one can do that in a healthy, non-porngraphic way that doesn’t take away the man’s humanity.

    In our culture, women’s bodies (or artificial versions of them) are presented everywhere for men. I think porn encourages a two dimensional view of sex, while sensuality is so much more than that–there is the way a partner tastes, smells, sounds, feels to the touch, none of which can be found in porn. And men CAN relish these things, every bit as much as women (and I think there are men who actually crave these things). Men have the capacity to relate to a woman as a full human being, but pornography discourages men from practicing that kind of full-body-heart-spirit form of eroticism. I think the example I gave of being less hurt by the idea of a man having an affair with a woman down the street than him using women via pornography makes it pretty clear that my issue is not about expecting men to forgo physical enjoyment of women or never to find another woman attractive. But using other women as masturbatory tools is something different, and I think it dehumanizes those women. I do think that a sensitive man will admit that women are treated unfairly in this world, encouraged to compete with other women based solely on appearance, and encouraged to feel insecure about aging or not being physically “perfect” by patriarchal beauty standards. A “good” man will want to be aware of how these things make the woman he’s with feel sad, and he will know what a loving, beautiful gift it is to keep his focus on her, to let her know his love and his sexuality happen, not just on a physical level, but in a way that makes her feel he is drawn to her as a whole. I’ve been with men who have gotten quiet and seemed sad if I talked about how sexy some other guy was in their presence. I found their vulnerability endearing. Not wanting to hurt them that way and caring about their feelings as my partner inspired me to focus my erotic feelings on them, not to use porn of other men.

    When you mention a man USING other women to fuels his desire for me, I can’t help but think of a house slave, whose master comes home and is kind and well behaved towards her, after spending a day in the fields whipping and beating and on other slaves in a less privileged position, treating them as subhuman. I guess, as a feminist, I can’t shut off the part of myself that cares for other women like that. If such a man has the mindset that he can use other women in dehumanizing ways, and I should feel good because he uses that to build passion for me, I’m sorry, but I would feel repulsed by him. I don’t want all the ejaculate he’s worked up looking at other women as fuck holes anywhere near my body, that would feel gross, like he was filling me with poison, not loving, and I would feel bad for the other women as well.

    The dynamic of being able to purchase sexual access to women via monetary power makes me feel sick to my stomach too. It feels grossly unequal to me, and things haven’t always been that way between men and women. I think it gives men an unfair advantage in sex and encourages women to see ourselves as “sex for sale;” What one gets in exchange for sex with somebody else ought to be a desired sexual experience with another human being. Anytime you bring money into it, or start introducing other forms of “trade offs” it feels wierd and not loving; I want sex to be loving. Porn feels like a form of coercion, and I want to be with a man because I really want to, not because I feel coerced.

    Do you think women would “enjoy” being used in porn if they could earn as much in other ways, or if they weren’t being paid? If they enjoy the sex, why must the money be there at all? I know a survivor of prostitution who says that if you want to know women’s real experience of what it’s like to work in the sex industry, ask them (those who live through it) 15 years after they have left. It is very, very difficult to admit you don’t like something WHILE it is being done to you; Really experiencing the trauma as it happens can be too much, human beings have an ability to cope by disociating in situations like that. Many women stay with abusive partners because they say they enjoy the relationship; I myself dealt with anorexia as a young girl, and I can tell you I fully chose not to eat, and, in many, many ways, I enjoyed the whole experience of controlling my body and what went into it (and perhaps that related to hating the way it looked to see a woman penetrated on camera by a man?); my point is that women, all people, can enjoy things that hurt or will even eventually destroy them. I think the line must be drawn when women’s human rights are being violated, and with pornography, particularly given that even women who don’t “choose” to be in it are subjected to it & the ways in which it changes men’s sexuality, I think the violation of women’s rights is clear.

    Weather or not your man felt problematic to you, he was still using other women in ways that took their humanity away. I think you can only make peace with this by distancing yourself from those women. It makes me feel sad if a man is unable to stop using pornography, even if a woman he’s with tells him she feels actual despair because of his porn use–to me, that feels like a problem. I think it’s easier though probably for you to feel frustrated with me or take issue with my responses to porn, than to think about his choices. Actually, I feel like I fathom very well how much pornography encourages men to compartmentalize sex and to view women in ways that don’t allow us to be fully human all the time, even during sex–THAT’s why porn scares me and makes me feel like smacking the men who use it upside the head. I understand what that shit says about me as a woman, and I don’t want men to view women that way. It makes me feel sad about being a female human being in this world; it makes me feel degraded.

    I don’t know Tinque that I would actually have a problem with you doing what feels right “to you” if giving way to your man’s porn use and trying to find some way to reconcile to it feels like your only option. I can understand that, it makes sense. I feel glad not to be invested in a man who uses porn anymore (I was invested in my father, because I had no choice in that, but now I DO have a choice and that feels powerful–it just feels really, really frustrating and stressful to think that the pool of potential partners is smaller for me, if I really hold on to my desire to have a man who won’t use pornography, and i feel like you are trying to intimidate me or make me make the same choice as you by saying, “he will just go underground with it if you say no.” That makes me feel shamed, almost bullied. You said you felt your husband would just go underground with it if you refused to find porn you could watch together, but I don’t think fear is a good reason for doing anything, not for compromising on your sexuality or trying to put his sexual needs first. Pamela Paul has written a book called “Pornified” in which she speaks about women doing just that–trying to find “couples’ porn” to watch with their men as a way to control what he views; when interviewed privatley though, oftentimes the men admitted to still using hardcore porn when their wife wasn’t there, so the compromise really didn’t do a lot, except convince the woman to subject herself to filmed footage of men fucking women. I really just don’t want to see that, it feels crummy. This argument about finding porn that isn’t “as bad” as a way of compromise has been around since the 80s too, but, rather than helping curb men’s porn use, I actually think what you see is that our giving in on this and worrying about men’s desire more than our own has lead to more misogynist pornography.

    You are certainly free to make the choice that feels right for you, but when you put that forward as a public statement, or begin advizing women who say porn makes them feel terrible, to try “softening” to it, then that becomes more than just you doing what’s right for you. It becomes an infringement on me. I feel like, if you feel you must give in to accepting your husband’s porn use on some level, that’s a private adaptation (one I understand, seriously, my mom did it) but not a positive public stance. I think advocating men’s porn use just ends up making a lot of women feel really bad, me included. And blaming the woman for admitting this triggers her, as though porn is her problem rather than his, and implying that healing meanis “letting it go” feels unfair and terrible. You said that he still uses porn, even though he uses it less. I don’t think trying to “let it go” helps the woman do much, except stuff down the feelings of shame, anger, and sadness she feels over the fact that she’s stuck with a man in her life who just isn’t ready to give up pornography.
    -Stephanie

    Friday, 8 July 2011 @ 10:30am

  59. 59: Isis feministNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t know if I want to continue this discussion. It just feels awful for me. I feel scared Rori’s support and praise for you Tinque, means she too thinks women need to feel okay about porn or accept it to heal, and that makes me feel so sad and totally alone. I don’t want porn to be a part of my love life, ever, and I believe, with all my heart, that it hurts women and children, and men in a different way. The tools I’m learning in Love Skripts have felt SO helpful already, and I’ve been feeling a lot better about myself, more confident in my ability to connect with men on a heart level. I feel encouraged when I hear Rori’s voice on my DVDs, and I don’t want to lose all that by thinking she agrees with you on everything here, because a lot of what I’m hearing just feels terrible. I feel like my main problem with discussions on porn with men in the past has actually been…I feel so sure nobody will believe me or care, that I overload men with statistics and rational arguments that, while fact-based and truthful, tend to make them feel overwhelmed I think. I can tell you though, I’ve already had two conversations with two different guys around this issue, where I was successful at sticking with feeling messages, keeping it simple and saying things like, “I feel so humiliated about being a woman when I’ve seen pornography, and I’m so scared that all men use it” and men have actually STUNNED me with their responses–because they seem to hear it so much more!–the deeply compasionate ones/one’s who could be right for me anyway. They seem touched and shaken hearing a woman’s pain, and I think me being vulnerable and comfortable with my true feelings on this makes them think about pornography differently than they had maybe. I’m feeling like maybe I would be better off just starting my own blog about this issue at this point, which I feel kind of inspired to do now, so thanks for that, and thank you for posting my comments for discussion, even where we disagree, Stephanie

    Friday, 8 July 2011 @ 11:29am

  60. 60: leeNo Gravatar says:

    annie here: Tingue- so whare are the porn-less men? iv”e yet to meet 1.[especially the 1″s over 40!] Iris-hey i grew up in the 60″s! iv”e had my fill of gas, grass, or ass! to last a lifetime.[iv”e watched my share bk, then-too keep whom-ever happy,]I had a fianc”e[bk- when] 7 1/2 yrs, his personal best[porn] was 7 hrs at F, st. book store! 9- hr”s! at hm. got so bad i quit buying veg”s to bring hm! i never knew if he was filming or not. we never got married, he liked the drugs more[thank God!] now yrs later here i am again! got bk togeather w/an ex[or so i thought] got an apt after yrs without,1. he took over the bdrm, he got porn on 24-7 that was my main beef w/him he talks & acts like hes ina movie, he wanted me to talk dirty, act like linda lovelace[she still alive?] i no can do a-hole! so now i hear him from the living room w/ his sluts watching porn &?. it tears me apart!

    Monday, 11 July 2011 @ 6:45am

  61. 61: annieNo Gravatar says:

    annie says; Ocean- right on sister!! i agree with you 100% iv”e seen the damage it does to people & iv”e felt the pain.

    Monday, 11 July 2011 @ 6:51am

  62. 62: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    annie – The vast majority of men look at porn; they just do. Men love to look at naked bodies; they just do. It’s hard wired into them.

    The problem come in when it becomes all consuming, when it interferes with relationships, work, hobbies, social life. This where an occasional looking or even a regular habit crosses over into addiction.

    This man you describe sounds like he has a serious problem with it. I would ask you if this is the kind of man you want.

    I have found that single men tend to look at it more, makes sense, whether they use it as a masturbatory tool or they look just to look, as habit.

    Men in relationship, especially if living with the woman will tend to over time put it aside more and more.

    So in answer to your question, it will be difficult if not impossible to find a completely porn free man, but there are a great many who have it all in perspective.

    And not all men who look at porn look at the kinds which paint woman as objects to be used, as of servitude.

    xxoo

    Monday, 11 July 2011 @ 7:00am

  63. 63: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    I really, really don’t want to keep going round and round with this discussion Stephanie.

    I have said repeatedly that I don’t disagree with you on almost all of what you say.

    There are points here which I am making that are not being interpreted the way I am doing my best to articulate, and this is what it is I suppose.

    You are not upsetting at all first of all.

    Did I make compromises in the beginning? Yes I did. I had to choose to address what were much deeper issues which had absolutely nothing to do with porn but which porn triggered and keep this man who is amazing in every other way, or I had to choose to dump him.

    I feel so glad and grateful I chose to
    tackle these primal fears, for I am now a transformed person, and we have a relationship like few others, deeply loving and affectionate and respectful, about as soulful as two humans in this life can have.

    Does porn still bother me? Yes it does. But because I chose to go the hard route, the one few take on, not only did I heal, so did my man. And this too had nothing to with porn though this changed too. I did not say he looks at porn less. I said his looking lessened to what is now a non-existent thing.

    I enjoy looking at sexy movies with him. Is this porn? I don’t know. I suppose this depends on your definition. I choose to call it as stated or erotic movies.

    Maybe my definition of porn is broader than yours. I consider internet photos, stills, of naked women pornography.

    I do not agree that porn viewing makes men desensitize so that they need/want increasingly graphic viewing. This can happen though as with anything that can be addictive.

    I do not agree that it makes a man view his woman differently. It can, but for most men, this is not an issue. This could very well be changing with the younger generation because of the internet and ease of access. I don’t have statistics about this, and statistics are skewed, so I choose not to give them much weight.

    For most men, there just is not the emotional attachment we women have when viewing images, and this includes any images, clothed, naked, etc., most of us anyway. We can and do feel these women as real. And this would hold true looking at a family portrait of compete strangers. We can easily put ourselves right there even if we’ve never been there. And yes it can and does mess with our heads.

    Most men are very, very clear on the difference between a two-dimensional image and his real, live, flesh and blood beloved.

    A man can see a woman passing in the street, admire her breasts and then turn to his beloved with love and joy in his heart and yes attraction too. There is no confusion around this, not in his mind or his heart.

    Woman energy fills men up. They love to be around women, feel their essence. This does not reflect on men negatively at all.

    Other women are good for us. Other women make our men more attracted to us and maybe even love us more.

    I don’t know what else to say here. I want to show you that I’m not in disagreement, but I do think there are some deeper issues at work here too.

    But what I think doesn’t matter. You need to do what feels best to you and works for you. I support you on your journey, really I do.

    xxoo

    Tuesday, 12 July 2011 @ 11:52am

  64. 64: KristaNo Gravatar says:

    I am so happy to find this website, and you and the other’s who have posted. For 3 years, I have been deeply saddened by my relationship. I cry almost every day, because I feel so friking helpless. My boyfriend has no desire for sex. He is not gay. He has perfect levels of testosterone. He is 45 and I am 49. We have the most adorable fun and committed relationship, and are best friends. But there is no sex. It has been 6 months. We have only had sex about 8 times in 3 years. When I talk to him about stuff, he always calls me “Dr. Phil” and is incapable of letting down his walls. However, I have never been with a man who calls me and texts me so often as he and I love that about him. He wants me to move in with him when he buys a house. I told him I cannot live with a boyfriend who will not touch me. He agreed to go to counseling, but has yet to be proactive. I believe he is depressed, and possibly addicted to porn. He told me that if the most beautiful woman in the world stood in front of him it would not even phase him. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME WITH THIS!!!! I do NOT want to break up with him. I believe somewhere inside he has the potential to be affectionate. I saw it in the first 3 months of dating, then it left. He said he is like this with all of the girls he has dated in the past. I am sick of trying to read hundreds of articles and figure him out. I need real advise from people who can tell me what my part is in the relationship and how I can get him to open up. I am sick of crying, and at times it ruins my self esteem. I know he has a problem, and I try to focus on it’s his and not mine. Thank you for reading and helping me if you care to do so! I need to make a decision about our relationship soon.

    Thursday, 21 July 2011 @ 2:21pm

  65. 65: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Krista – You cannot make a man do anything, open up (which most men don’t do by the way) or change behavior. All you can do is continue working on you.

    And you have to decide if nothing ever changed around this, the porn or the lack of sexual intimacy, would you still want him.

    If the answer is yes, then leave him be, take care of you in all ways, keep your heart open and loving, accepting him for who he is right now. If he’s going to change if you stay, this is the only way.

    You could also make an appointment with a couples counselor, FOR YOU, and invite him to join you. Keep inviting him each and every time you go.

    If his current behavior IS a deal breaker, then you have to tell him that you love him and want to be with him, but you cannot do so as things are between you. And then you leave, and mean it.

    This may very well inspire a change in him, BUT you cannot come from this place, for this would be manipulation, and inevitably this will backfire on you.

    As I said you have to really mean it when you leave, and then you go out there and heal yourself, doing whatever it takes.

    He will come back, or he won’t. If he does, you will be in a clearer place to decide if you want to try again.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 21 July 2011 @ 2:33pm

  66. 66: KristaNo Gravatar says:

    Dear Tinque,
    Thank you for your quick response. That means the world to me. I agree with you on your comments. The only problem is that I moved to another state so couples therapy is not an option. I may only be here for a few more months and then go back to where he is. His insurance will pay for our counseling. But for now, I am stuck. I can’t afford counseling any longer. I cannot seem to get motivated for anything but work. I decided to go on an antidepressant several months ago but it is not working. I am still weepy and feel like a need someone to light a fire under my lazy ass! I am going home to San Diego to see my boyfriend in a couple of weeks. We have not seen each other in 5 months. Any suggestions on what I can do to light the sexual spark onto his penis? :O Should I engage in conversation about my concern about where I fear our relationship will end up if he we don’t get some help? By the way, I am not a prude and like to watch porn myself. My God I have to now more than ever because I don’t have a sex partner! I had him over when we were fighting and instead of talking about the relationship I decided to dress up like a sexy cop and put a porno on and it worked! I played the dominatrix and told him what a bad boy he was that he needed to shape up meanwhile frisking him and spanking him with my club, lol!!! We have never watched porn together except that one time. When I am at his house, I feel it’s up to him to make a move and plug in a porn video. If I initiate sex at his house, he always calls me a pervert and will move my hand away from Mr. Not So Happy. Also, he would rather watch TV when we are in his room. He hates silence! What can I do to break that bad habit if any? Thanks doll.

    Thursday, 21 July 2011 @ 3:06pm

  67. 67: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Krista – It seems that a heart-to-heart may be needed when you see him.

    eg. Ask him if it’s a good time to talk first. If he says no, ask to make a time. If he says yes, proceed.

    “I’m feeling concerned/confused/scared/anxious/whatever it is you feel, and it could be a few emotions.”

    He will likely ask why. You then say you love having sex. You love having sex with him, yet sometimes you feel like you are competing with the porn. Or that sex seems not so important to him. (I’m not clear which it is with you.)

    You don’t want to ask him to change himself or his habits, but you are feeling increasingly anxious about this. You find yourself thinking sometimes that he prefers sex alone than with you, and you don’t want to feel this with him. Can he help you with this.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 21 July 2011 @ 3:19pm

  68. 68: KristaNo Gravatar says:

    OK Great! I did go over the competing with the porn stuff with him some time ago, and he just laughed at me and said that’s ridiculous, and made up excuses like he’s just not that into sex, and it’s not me. I also went over the feelings part with him before but I liked how you phrased the last two sentences and will try that. Thank you!!!

    Thursday, 21 July 2011 @ 3:56pm

  69. 69: annieNo Gravatar says:

    Annie says; when i sneek on HIS[now ex.] comp.& get the web browzer,my 1st click is most visited,& go from there,its 1 of the easyest ways to get what i need.& low&behold here comes, on top& across comes; free porn-xxx videos-dwn-load porn-bing-xxxrated movies -hotmail-singles,looking for you-on&on! i got 1 for seniors they were all females! i quit! but what does tht say? hes gt bing on there so he can look for more porn? when i open mine there is alot of games! helps me relax-like a calgon moment[w/out disrobeing] if i had just met the guy &saw that, there would be a red flag alert! if i had read the fine print bk when, i would”nt of taken the job! $-wise im stuck like chuck! when he gets his settlement[disability] im sure hell move up-town w/1 of his sluts. i”m just p-o”d hes turned my life up-side-down, at this late date cause i would”nt bed-him!

    Thursday, 28 July 2011 @ 3:07am

  70. 70: HoneyNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque,
    I have to say after reading this blog and your responses I felt the compassion to write.
    I USE to be one of those girls who absolutely WOULD NOT tolerate any man looking at porn-most hid it from me. However, I recfently met a man- who from the very beginning-told me about EVERYTHING-shared EVERYTHING with me and we hit it off so good. Though we both told each other we didn’t want a relationship,we just wanted to hang out and be friends. However-after spending 10 straight days with each other- doing things with our kids-he has 2 and I have 2-he sends me a message saying how much he misses his girlfriend. I could see why he would call me that-I am a girl-I am his friend-and I told him that- he said no- I think your misunderstanding-I MEANT THE REAL THING-I was floored. ALL of my life-I have been the one who “chases” men. And to be honest I have gained nothing but horrible relationships-I usually pick the wrong people-so I BROKE my circle myself. This was so amazing that it literally caught me off guard. He then tells me to check my FB and that I was suppose to accept the invitation to be his girlfriend he thought-I was so lost and just in absolute amazement!!! I accepted as my feelings for him were running very strong also-I just would not let him know it-turns out-he had the same feelings as I did. We just clicked on everything. He has been nothing but honest with me about everything-his friends-his friends that are girls-everything. As our relationship gets started-I learn he likes looking at porn. He talks to his friends(girls) on his phone-texting mostly-all the time-I thought this would really bother me-turns out-he shares all of this with me too-so I felt like he was including me in his fantasies. I speak honestly-It really turned me on. It made me feel so “special” that he included me-he has never hid anything from me since day one-and I am starting to actually find out some very deep inner things about myself that I didn’t even realize I had, loved,ennjoyed,or thought about. I have never been in love-and neither has he-but together-we both have feel in love for the first time in our lives. I honestly think its because I ACCEPT him for HIM and what he enjoys-and he makes me a part of HIS life and the things HE enjoys. Believe it or not-this makes me HAPPY. For the first time in my life-I AM HAPPY :)
    So, being upset that my man looks at porn-or talks to other women via text-or emails-truely does not bother me. I am allowed to read anything he writes-so there is no “secrets”. I believe-that if more women would get”involved” in what their man desires-looks at-watches-they would realize that the man is truely into all of this to please HIS woman..not the opposit…and I believe that is the misconception many women get.They think that because their man looks at porn-or talks to other women to flirt-or looks at naked women that their man is not interested in them. SO NOT THE CASE in most. I agree with you in everything you say-and to be honest-I LOVE the ME that my man has brought out in me :)

    In Love-
    Honey

    Friday, 23 September 2011 @ 7:04am

  71. 71: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Honey – This post of yours brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing this with me. I so love hearing/reading stories like these.

    I applaud you for all of it. I send you love and hugs for your courage and big, open and now wiser heart.

    It IS all about honesty, not hiding things for fear of whatever. Likely much of the interacting he now has with other women will fade away with time as well as the other stuff, but even if it doesn’t, you are loving him and accepting him for who he is, right here, right now. This is a huge gift.

    xxoo

    Saturday, 24 September 2011 @ 7:39am

  72. 72: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    What makes me feel sad is that young men/boys now get such a distorted view of sex. They think that the women in their lives should be up for anal/ pee threesomes group sex etc because of the images they are exposed too. And most do not look at it on a deeper level.
    Also that women should look like these models.
    Most young boys do not know what a real womans body looks like and then most young girls think they have to compete and look like this to get and keep a man. On a surface level it all feels harmless. Sadly feel sure on a deeper level we are not wanting to examine the real trauma and psychological harm that is going on. A bit like when we watch starving kids on Tv and war footage etc to the reality of it if we get to go and witness this for real. mmm is it really no bid deal? I feel unsure. Easier for most to not even go there and fool themselves perhaps what do you really think deep in your soul? Dare you go there?

    Wednesday, 16 November 2011 @ 2:44pm

  73. 73: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Annie – I know that what you’re saying about men feels right and true, statistically and every other way – but in my experience – it isn’t. Most men are just like us – hankering for true love, kindness, harmony, safety, feeling good. Most men are not sexually adventurous or even remotely confident. This view of yours says more about what you’re looking at on TV and in the paper and where you hang and who your friends are and the kind of men they attract then it does about real men in the real world in general. Everyone’s having more challenges because of the economy and jobs – otherwise, love is still love. Love, Rori

    Wednesday, 16 November 2011 @ 3:48pm

  74. 74: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    I feel judged without being known, I hardly ever watch TV and do not read any newspapers, So feel in disagreement of the analysis put forward .And have a few really close friends. My views on this come from my real life experience of the real young people in my life and the porn that is available and they are watching today and how they have openly expressed it is effecting them.
    And real adult women I have come into contact with who have been in the sex and porn industry who have openly expressed how it has psychologically damaged their lives
    On a surface level physical level like most of the population men and women I feel sexually aroused by porn/erotica. And used to feel neutral about the subject. I don’t feel so neutral on a deeper core level after experiencing and feeling empathy and sadness after witnessing with my own eyes the pain and damage this has caused in the lives of this young people and psychologically damaged traumatized women. :( I feel sure it is for each of us to sink deep into our own higher conciseness and trust in our knowing if we want to play a part in this. In the same way that if we choose if we want to be a part in child labor by buying gap nike clothes etc. Or buying food that is not fair trade by dissociating from the facts that real people are suffering for our pleasure.

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 5:12am

  75. 75: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque,
    “He uses porn as a tool to arouse himself for me, not for use as an empty evacuation or ejaculation, rarely that is.”

    It would feel wrong for me if my man had to use porn to become aroused for me.
    And all men masturbate if they are in relationship or not, so I would feel naive to believe if man was using this to become aroused for me that he would not be using this to become aroused to masturbate to.

    “The images are objects of arousal, not figures of desire.”

    The woman behind the picture or the film is not an object :( She is a real person with real feelings.

    It’s this dissociating and objectifying that leaves my inner being my soul hurt to the core.
    If a boy is exposed to this when he is growing up what does his belief about women become? That they are objects less human less equal to them? Something to be objectified.

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 6:31am

  76. 76: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Annie, this might not be my business but unfortunately the energy behind your words suggest righteous indignation. I believe Rori is talking about good men here, not immature or those that lack values. My personal experience tells me Rori is right.

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 6:56am

  77. 77: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Annie – I completely agree that porn CAN be damaging to some, and maybe this is becoming more prevalent with the easy access of porn via the internet. But the vast majority of men do NOT fall into the this category.

    This is like anything else which can be addicting, for example, drugs and alcohol.

    It’s natural for men to want to look at beautiful naked women. It’s been going on since the beginning of time. Have a look at any art. Have you seen any Indian art? Very graphic.

    This doesn’t mean that he wants to have sex with these women or masturbate while fantasizing about them.

    Men who enjoy looking at these women, don’t NEED porn. Most of the time they don’t even use it. It can be fun for additional stimulation.

    You have to remember too that most of these women put themselves on display willingly.

    As natural as it is for men to look, it’s just as natural for women to love to be looked at.

    Yes some in the industry have suffered. But for most, no one forced then to do this. We all have choice for the most part.

    And I’m not at all talking about the sex trade industry which is indeed an awful thing, but this is an entirely different subject.

    As for my man, just as with most any man, when they are single, enjoying porn is as natural to them as breathing.

    And the more I worked with myself to heal my triggers around porn knowing he loved me and was way turned on by me WITHOUT porn, the more porn fell by the wayside without me having to say anything.

    There is no answer here. It is an it is what it is kind of thing.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 7:09am

  78. 78: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque.

    “You have to remember too that most of these women put themselves on display willingly.”

    Indian art and erotic literature feel ok to me as no real person is suffering for my or my mans pleasure.
    I just no longer feel comfortable with she did it willingly line.
    And a real life person with real feelings is being used.

    Supply and demand. I feel unsure if I want to be any part of that anymore. Many are so young when they start and do not realize they will be psychologically traumatized. Do I want to go back to my surface level thinking or dare I examine what my higher level soul is saying to me? I feel compelled at this moment in time to go deeper although it is not pretty.

    If our young girls get involved willingly involved with hard drugs does that make it acceptable for drug dealers to provide and sell drugs. Or do I speak up and fight hard drugs and get them off our streets.

    I really do feel unsure about all this and only know that I feel awakened to question deeper on all these higher moral issues and to ask what world do I want for our future generation.

    I feel in agreement that the vast majority of older emotionally and spiritually mature men do not fall into this category. How many of those are left?
    And it is human nature to look out of curiosity at the distorted porn that is available.
    And what am I turning a blind eye to and making ok because it is what it is.

    If I want a better world for my children I feel sure I have to dig deep and ask what am I going along with and accepting that I no longer want in my world.

    Feel sure it is an individual journey and choice for all of us.

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 8:34am

  79. 79: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    I think I may agree with you more than you realize Annie. If I was given the choice, I would feel very happy if all porn disappeared. Yes many young women go into this willingly not knowing that it may traumatize them later, but this could be said of many other things. Doesn’t make it right necessarily, but who am I to say what is or isn’t right. I can only decide that for me.

    Most of have some very deep traumas to heal from. Just because it doesn’t involve displaying your naked body and parts doesn’t make it any less awful.

    So I don’t know. I don’t love porn, but I understand why it is. I choose not to participate. I feel relief in a way that my man also no longer participates, but if he ever dabbled now and then, I would understand because it is natural for men to want to look at naked bodies. It will never take way from him lusting after my body at all. It’s a completely different thing, something men can do, and most women cannot fathom, being able to compartmentalize in this way.

    So Annie, I appreciate your input. Thank you for being a part of this discussion.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 8:48am

  80. 80: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you too Tinque. xx

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 9:08am

  81. 81: oceanNo Gravatar says:

    I think we all know how we really feel about porn. It is not a good feeling and so we come up with all these ways to try and modify our feelings so we can tolerate it – even in our own relationships and homes. What Annie is saying is truth. Porn is damaging to many people on many different levels. if we examine honestly we know.

    Not all men masturbate. read some of the literature out there for men who are addicted to porn and trying to quit. You say it is a small percentage – we don’t really know that. all we know it that the percentage of men using porn is in the high 90s and now we are seeing that ENOUGH men are becoming addicted that people are writing books about how to deal with porn addiction. Some of these men are not masturbating anymore – at all. It is a life-threatening addiction which destroys a mans body and ability to relate to women in real life. And these men who are trying to quit will also stop masturbating because it has now become a part of an addiction that has taken over their lives.

    You can watch someone drink a glass of wine, but you don’t know if that person is simply enjoying a glass of wine, or feeding an addiction. Your very loved man in your home could be feeding an addiction, growing an addiction or simply enjoying porn with no threat of addiction. That is impossible for anyone to determine except the user.

    The social part is – to me – not even up for discussion anymore and I am tired of all the defenses ppl come up with to say porn use and the porn industry is OK – I call that lame. The industry is ugly and mercenary. It hurts people – even children. It supports misogyny and ensures it’s continued dominance in our culture. and much worse too. It is pure evil to me. I would rather spend the rest of my life single than have to deal with it in my home. If you saw your man hanging out or giving his money to some sleazy drug dealer you might want to say something. You don’t see the even sleazier porn dealer behind the scenes, so it’s OK??

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 9:20am

  82. 82: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Ocean – Please read more carefully what I have written.

    As for masturbation being harmful, this is SO not true. Are you going to tell me you never masturbate either?

    It is healthy and normal for men and women alike to masturbate, relieving tension, keeping your (and his) parts healthy with blood flow, and more PLUS it feels good.

    Yes when in a committed relationship you will tend to do this less, and the older the less still. MAYBE…

    Masturbating DOES NOT in any way take away form the relationship. Unless one or the other partner has some other emotional problem which makes one on one intimacy difficult. But this another topic altogether.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 9:34am

  83. 83: oceanNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque – please read what I have written more carefully and stop making stuff up. Masturbation becomes abnormal when it is part of a porn addiction – is the point i was making. But don’t take my word for it. Read around on the boards of porn addiction where men and boys are desperately trying to stop porn use because they are masturbating so much they are damaging their privates – and more.

    What does any of this have to do with me masturbating or not? I am not a porn user or addicted to porn or abusing my own body to the point of ill health and damage. You are simply repeating the words we have all heard all our lives about masturbation being good under any circumstances. There is a CONTEXT to be considered here Tinque, which changes the qualitative judgements about masturbation, if you are paying attention. Ignore that if you want, but don’t expect everyone to jump on the porn-is-fine bandwagon.

    Feels to me like you have taken on this topic only to propose that porn is OK no matter what. No matter what damage to the user and his loved ones. REALLY?? Because I see plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 9:51am

  84. 84: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Ocean – I’m feeling really unheard here. I have never, not once said porn is okay no matter what. I have clearly said that addiction does exist and like with any addiction, it can be harmful, affecting not only the addict but anyone else in his/her life.

    I don’t even like porn. And I don’t like a greater part of the industry. YET I completely understand why people WITHOUT a propensity to addiction can enjoy it as part of a healthy sex life.

    Propensity or predisposition to addiction is key here. If not porn, then it would be something else or many something elses.

    My role here is to not only help women with their issues and problems within themselves and within their relationships, it’s also to help expand their minds and their worlds, to offer other viewpoints which can be valid if not useful.

    I feel badly this affects you so deeply, triggers you so horribly. It has me too in the past. I hope you can find healing.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 17 November 2011 @ 10:02am

  85. 85: crystal carnationsNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you so much Rori for putting so much time and dedication to this blog. I’ve learned to much and I’d love to become a part of this supportive community. Tinique’s issues around this subject is something I still struggle with and is a major trigger for me. Tinique thank you for your bravery!

    Sunday, 11 December 2011 @ 7:42pm

  86. 86: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    crystal carnations – You are welcome, and I also want you to know that it can and does get better and easier. I found for me that the more I let my struggle around it go, the less he looked to the point that he no longer does. I suppose if given an opportunity, he might,, but the habit he had has all but disappeared.

    Please keep in mind that when you do work on feeling better around it, you don’t want to do so with the hope he will stop.

    This is for you, for YOU to feel better within yourself and around him.

    Sending you love a good wishes.

    xxoo Dominique aka Tinque

    Monday, 12 December 2011 @ 9:45am

  87. 87: crystal carnationsNo Gravatar says:

    Tinique, I’ve read your blog and I could totally relate to 99% of your feelings. I really don’t know how to get over this and just accept it and not be bothered by it. I’m so glad you shared your story with us because I don’t feel like such a freek. However, I feel even more terrible because I feel like a hypocrite too. I enjoy watching porn by myself from time to time. But the thought of him doing it makes me angry. Although I feel a little bit less threatened when you explained the difference between the way men and women experience porn are very different and he doesn’t feel it like the way I do when I watch it.
    My financee told me from the beginning of our relationship that he watches porn on his computer and uses it as a mastabatory aid. At the time I assumed that anyway considering most men. I’ve known all do. I appreciated his upfront honesty and it didn’t bother me ss much back then because we were just dating. I knew lots of guys thought I was hot him included and I was feeling all powerful andsexy.
    However as my feelings for him developed, we got engaged and I’ve fallen in love I find this bothering me more and more. Intellectually I know people have fantasies even including other people and that is their right. But emotionally I can’t resolve my jealous, threatened , not -good-enough feelings porn provokes in me.
    I should say this first- I know I am a very good looking woman and people have always told me I’m really hot even beautiful. My fiancee frequently tells me how sexy and hot I am and he always wants to have sex with me when we are together. So his porn use doesn’t affect our sex life in any way or his sexual attraction for me. It hasn’t taken away from our relationship at all. I don’t think he is addicted to it but he does have a high sex drive. He is very trustworthy and I feel confident that he wouldn’t cheat on me and loves me. I’m not afraid porn will lead to cheating or anything.
    We don’t really talk about the porn thing much but the issue sits there like an elephant in the room. Basically I told him I just don’t want to know about it or talk about it. Telling him this I know really perplexes him- I think because I agreed that it’s normal and I told him I check out porn sometimes too. He says he’d love to watch porn together. That is something I can’t even think about. I just don’t feel brave enough.
    Sometimes he would say things about porn (before I told him I didn’t want to talk about it) that felt soul crushing to me and he was oblivious to it. He told me once that lately he had been watching a lot of porn with this one particular porn star because she reminded him of me and that when. he thinks of me while watching porn and masterbating he climaxes really fast. I guess most women would find that flattering but all I could feel was that I couldn’t measure up yo that porn star and he needed her to feel turned on enough to fantasize about me. It makes me feel so unsexy and ugly when I compare myself to them.
    So I know this porn thing really is an unresolved issue that triggers all theses low self esteem feelings which I’ve struggled with my whole life and my nasty voice that is vicious towords me. I’m really scared this is going to drive me to sabatoge nh relationship.
    Lately I’ve been finding myself freeze and shut down emotionally and wanting to punish him by avoiding him, rejecting his affection and just wanting to run from him and this intimate relationship we built. Tinque I don’t want to do this with him! I love him so much and I don’t want to do with him what I did with my ex and shut him out but sometimes I just don’t think I can handle being brave, honest and intimate. Emotionally what this triggers in me is so overwhelming and scary I just want to disappear
    It is like in the beginning I can be accepting of it cuz I feel like he wants me way more and I’m new and exciting and I feel so sexy and desired but as the relationship develops I start to feel insecure, fear that he is losing interest or attraction and getting bored of me and I don’t feel sexy anymore and I start to give the porn thing way too much energy. Whenever I feel vulnerable I start feeling not good enough again.
    I really want to be brave and write a speech and be honest with how I feel but I’m afraid he will think I’m silly, or think I’m insecure or not self confident and Rori explained men don’t find that very attractive. I don’t want to appear un-siren like. How can I share my insecurity and how porn makes me feel threatened and not kill his attraction to me?

    Monday, 12 December 2011 @ 1:10pm

  88. 88: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Oh my crystal carnatations, your situation sounds SO much like mine was.

    The thing here is is that it’s not about the porn at all. And what makes me realize this with you is that you mentioned that you feared pushing him away just as you did with your ex.

    Your fear has nothing to do with his porn viewing. I think your fear revolved around intimacy, deep, soul exposing vulnerability. And how you feel around porn gives you a great reason to shut down or at least close off some.

    I never did discover from where my feelings which were so much like yours came from. I had never been exposed to it, had never had a partner who watched it that I knew of, or anything that traumatized me in any way.

    Porn showed up for me because for whatever reason, it shook me up enough to have to do the work on me I needed to do if I wanted this relationship which I did.

    This was a very long process crystal, a very long one. I didn’t get to where I am overnight. It took over a year of working with a coach, and at least a couple of years more on my own. And even now, if I am feeling shaky for whatever reason, I can have those same feelings arise along with the thoughts though they are greatly diminished and don’t last long, for I know what to0 do with them.

    It will likely take you some time and some really deep work on yourself. If you’ve come this far, I think you can go all the way.

    It’s okay to tell your man how you feel. I don’t want you to go on and one about it or keep revisiting it.

    You can tell him that the thought of him looking at others, especially naked others feels so awful. You feel so not good enough. You feel threatened. You don’t want him to do anything differently because of how you feel, yet you wish you could. You know you have some healing to do which has nothing to do with porn, and this is what you are going to do, heal. Thank him for listening, and that’s it.

    He may or may not say something, but try not to expect anything. You WILL feel closer to him for getting this off of your chest. He may very well surprise you with his response too.

    Wishing you the best.

    xxoo Dominique aka Tinque

    Monday, 12 December 2011 @ 4:15pm

  89. 89: crystal carnationsNo Gravatar says:

    Tinque, thank you for the encouraging words. I know this road won’t be easy but I feel like I have made a lot of progress in my life and this wonderful guy who has shown up reaffirms to me how much I have grown. Yet I can feel my old stuff rearing its ugly head again and I’m terrified of messing this up.
    I think part of this does stem from fear of intimacy and low self esteem and these have been my issues forever. I do feel like I am using the porn thing as a way to turn myself off to him and accumulate anger towords him so I feel justified to keep him at bay and emotionally distance myself from him. He loves me so deep and gives me so much of himself that maybe this intense intimacy in this relationship is causing me to obsess about the porn thing again :(
    Sometimes facing this stuff and sharing my feelings with someone feels almost paralyzing to me. It has happened a few times where in his presence I’ve gotten triggered and my chest tightens and I feel like I can’t breathe let alone even speak. He can pick up when something is wrong and asks me what is going on and I just can’t even bring myself to tell him how I feel in that moment.
    Writing all this out though has helped me tremendously and puts a lot in perspective for me. I suppose journaling and sharing some of this here where I feel like other women can understand are the first baby steps I can take. Thank you!

    Monday, 12 December 2011 @ 11:35pm

  90. 90: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Crystal carnations – I was thinking this morning that you may want to read more on my site around this topic. I have several more articles I wrote about this specifically, and if you have some time, you may want to explore further in the healing category for the deeper stuff. I also offer a complimentary report which you can access on the top right of any page on my site.

    http://sexandheart.com/category/porn

    Rori and I are friends, so she is more than okay with me directing you elsewhere.

    Please keep me posted.

    xxoo

    Tuesday, 13 December 2011 @ 10:03am

  91. 91: crystal carnationsNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Tinque. I plan on purchasing your ebook as soon as I can. I know you and Rori are on the same page the majority of the time and her programs have helped me tremendously. You specific issues resonate with me so deeply that I know your book will assist in this healing. Your compassion has already made me feel less lost.
    Just doing Rori’s work and tools felt uncomfortable and I feel scared to dig even deeper around these issues that porn has brought up for me but her stuff has already garnered incredible results for me but I feel your work will be even harder for me because I am facing even deeper darkness.
    Sometimes in the heat of these feelings I just want to give up and be single so I can avoid this situation and these feelings and wounds that come up. But then as you were talking about in one one your posts is he worth it? Yes he is. I know he will probably never stop enjoying porn but yet he doesn’t enjoy stripclubs, or even when women flirt with him. He is committed with his heart, thinks I’m a goddess and loves me. He doesn’t even want to hide his porn use from me. So like you said I want to resolve this for me. I don’t expect him to stop and truthfully I don’t really want him to I just want to feel so secure in myself that these feelings around porn don’t run me and become so powerful.
    I will for sure keep you posted. Thank you Tinque!

    Tuesday, 13 December 2011 @ 12:21pm

  92. 92: KathiNo Gravatar says:

    I look at this very differnetly. Imagine some sort of altered universe where for some reason your man was given some drug that caused him to have sex with another woman, but he didn’t initiate it, experience it, or remember it. In other words, it was all in his body and not in his mind. It wouldn’t bother you so much BECAUSE HE DIDN’T EXPERIENCE IT! SEX IS WHAT IS HAPPENING BETWEEN HIS EARS, NOT WHAT HIS BODY IS DOING! If he is looking at a naked woman, he is having sex with her. To me it is almost the same as if he were actually doing it. I recently discovered that the love of my life for 7 years was sneaking off to watch porn, and it destroyed our relationship. I am devastated and can’t handle that he feels he need to go elsewhere. I feel threatened and betrayed and would prefer to be alone than with a man who needs to do this.

    Monday, 19 December 2011 @ 12:02pm

  93. 93: HemaNo Gravatar says:

    This is such good advice… Thank you Rori…”)

    Sunday, 4 March 2012 @ 1:45pm

  94. 94: KeightyNo Gravatar says:

    I haven’t read all of the comments. There are a lot. I found this blog from Miss Representation’s facebook page, and had to see if it was true– that someone claiming to have expertise in coaching women was actually telling women that the hurt they feel from their significant other’s viewing of porn was not really that big of a deal.

    I did notice in the comments a couple of things that really struck me– the men don’t need to look at porn. Yet, in a previous comment, it was stated by the same individual claiming expertise that the request from the significant other of the one viewing porn to stop would simply result in the person viewing porn to go “underground” with it. If it truly wasn’t something they “need,” why isn’t the significant other’s request respected?

    I won’t go into the soapbox about the individuals in the pornography industry. There is plenty of literature and evidence on how damaged and destroyed they are, and rather than being offered resources to overcome their emotional demons, they are instead placed in front a camera and exploited for their complete lack of whatever. However, I will say there is plenty of literature that examines what viewing pornography does– it diminishes the satisfaction the viewer has with real individuals, including their significant other. It is like a drug where tolerance is built, and gradually, a bigger thrill, a more dangerous venue, must be explored in order to get the fix. Viewing pornography escalates into emotional and physical relationships with tangible, physical and emotional people (rather than the two dimensional physical and emotional figures on the screen), and many notorious serial murderers were also found to have experienced a pornography addiction.

    The nature of using a woman for physical arousal programs the brain to view women as objects. Objects are no longer physical beings with emotions, minds, thoughts, ideas, histories, families, etc. It is the objectification of women that results in increased instances of violence and rape. To encourage the objectification of women is very anti-woman, and therefore completely discredits an individual as an expert in coaching members of this sex.

    Friday, 14 September 2012 @ 7:40pm

  95. 95: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Keighty – I would suggest you reread this article, and try to look at it with fresh eyes.

    While indeed what you say CAN be true for SOME men, it’s not true for most. Most men are very clear on the difference between a two dimensional image which is arousing and the real thing, his woman, who turns him on like no one else. Because she is who she is, the woman he loves.

    While what you say about the porn industry is in my view mostly true, the much of not the majority of porn out there is preformed by non porn actors as clips to be found all over he internet. They could be anyone, the girl or boy next door. And yes this opens up a whole new dialogue about the problems with this, potentially. And I do believe this can speak of deeper issues with these “actors”.

    What all of this comes down to is that things and people show up in your life to help you heal something. In this case when there is not an addiction or problem of any kind associated with the porn viewing aside from the woman’s discomfort with it, then this is HER problem to look at and deal with, BUT the problem or issue she really has NOTHING to do with the porn at all. It’s something so much deeper.

    She can choose to look at it all in this way and work to heal whatever the deeper issue is, or she can choose to blame the porn viewing man for her pain. BUT this deeper issue will continue to show up for her in other forms and with other men.

    xxoo

    Saturday, 15 September 2012 @ 12:51pm

  96. 96: KeightyNo Gravatar says:

    What you are describing is what we, actual professionals and real therapists/advocates, call “victim blaming.” You may also try exploring emotional gas-lighting, and then re-evaluate your response. It is not the woman’s fault she is hurt because of her significant other’s virtual infidelity. It’s also disconcerting that you fail to see how the industry has successfully persuaded (ie brainwashed) you into believing otherwise.

    Saturday, 15 September 2012 @ 1:45pm

  97. 97: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    I couldn’t disagree more. How do you “know” what is true for most men and women?? Your experience does not speak for the majority.
    After 16 years of marriage I discovered my husband was secretly using porn heavily most of our marriage, despite the fact I never turned him down sexually or had emotional issues that kept me from being vulnerable and open. In these 16 years, he gradually drifted away with me, became critical of my body and was dissatisfied with our marriage, our kids, everything. His porn use did nothing but take him away from reality and into a world where nothing was good enough because it didn’t match the effortless sex and endless “perfect” fantasies online. It did not make him “want” me more, and his brain didn’t differentiate between real and fantasy. In fact, the brain craved cybersex and porn more because it was instant, effortless, and with endless variety. It often distorts men’s and women’s views on their bodies and sex itself, so much that men often experience ED as a side effect of porn use, because they simply cannot be turned on by a “real” woman anymore. Look up the studies, do the research and see for yourself. It is true, initial porn use doesn’t have anything to do with the spouse, but she sure feels the consequences of it with time! The hundreds of clients at the porn addiction treatment clinic we go verifies this fact: porn is not harmless and causes deep hurt in spouses.
    Cybersex has progressed into vulgar and demeaning acts and scenarios for both men and women,and this DOES affect the psyche of the viewer, whether they like it or not. It encourages the viewpoint that women are objects for arousal, not real people with hopes and dreams.
    My husband bought into the lie that “it’s just a photo, video etc” and used it to relax and forget uncomfortable feelings. It progressed into an addiction, as the brain craves the dopamine highs and craved more, craved edgier, craved more shocking… it is a progressive activity that is never satiated, and one doesn’t know they are vulnerable to addiction to porn until it is too late.
    I think it is dangerous to preach to women are hurt by their partner’s porn use, that they have a problem in themselves that needs to be fixed. Maybe, just maybe, that hurt comes from that vulnerable place deep in us that trusts our sexuality and intimacy with our partner, and the discovery that the partner replaced and redirected that sexual attention elsewhere IS hurtful and the hurt signals that this is NOT Ok in the relationship. Period. I think women need to honor that emotion and not teach themselves to ignore it and fix themselves. That is so invalidating, and it perpetuates the lie that man have to use porn, and we as women should just accept it and tell ourselves that we are the ones with the problem.

    Saturday, 15 September 2012 @ 9:54pm

  98. 98: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa – I see only black and white thought going on here. I have not denied that porn use can become a very serious problem, and I have also said I believe that this problem has been increasing over time due to the ease of availability.

    BUT just because a man or a woman (yes some women enjoy it too) likes to look at porn sometimes, doesn’t mean that they will become addicted.

    Like with anything which is addictive, some are more prone to its addictive draw than others.

    I could just as easily say that a great many women are very unhappy with their real like mates because they’re addicted to the fantasy relationships they find in romance novels and movies. And I have seen many.

    ANYTIME something arises which feels painful, it is ALWAYS a good idea to take a look inside first to see what’s going on in there. What is coming up asking to be healed.

    This DOES NOT mean blaming yourself for anything which is transpiring. It doesn’t even mean that whatever it is that is creating this pain is a good or healthy thing. ALL it means is that there is something coming up for healing.

    AND you always have choice every step of the way. You ALWAYS have the choice to take care of yourself and leave any situation which feels bad.

    xxoo

    Sunday, 16 September 2012 @ 7:56am

  99. 99: KeightyNo Gravatar says:

    Okay, Dominique. Let’s take “addiction” out of the equation. Read the literature cited here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.umn.edu%2Faurora%2Fpdf%2FResearchOnPornography.pdf&ei=ZSNWUKDkO5K68wTomoDgDQ&usg=AFQjCNHJWD-IYuvWq8CH2l2L8iPrMkkAzw&sig2=o8xyeqn7HD-PP-r7OKxPpA

    and then tell me that recreational pornography consumption is A-Okay.

    Your response to Lisa continues to be invalidating. “Take a look inside first to see what’s going on there.” On an emotional level, that’s like you’re telling someone who’s been stabbed to explore why it is they didn’t bother with growing thicker, stronger skin first rather than stopping whatever or whomever is stabbing them. Can discovering your partner’s infidelity bring about feelings of insecurity, emotional handicaps that have plagued you for your entire life? Absolutely. That does not remove the responsibility from the individual viewing the pornography for doing something hurtful and disregarding the agreements made when entering into a monogamous relationship.

    Sunday, 16 September 2012 @ 12:14pm

  100. 100: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Keighty – I don’t think that my words are being read in toto. It seems like selective reading. I feel misinterpreted and misunderstood. It would feel more comfortable engaging in a conversation when what I am saying hasn’t seemingly been changed into something else.

    xxoo

    Sunday, 16 September 2012 @ 12:23pm

  101. 101: KeightyNo Gravatar says:

    Changed into what? What I’m interpreting you to say is that pornography isn’t a big deal. That if your significant other looks, it’s okay! It doesn’t reflect on you, it’s normal, and “Who doesn’t enjoy being aroused after all?” Pornography is “so not real, fun to fantasize about and maybe masturbate to sometimes but not very fulfilling.”

    What I’m reading in your initial statement, and your response to others, is that rather than look at your own hurt and heal as you have preached so regularly, you’ve instead focused so much energy on stuffing. Stuffing your feelings and beating them into submission to convince yourself that the despair you initially felt, that you were entitled to feel, was an over reaction, and his behavior is totally and completely acceptable. My heart aches for the energy you spend on convincing yourself of a lie, and it frustrates and infuriates me that you are taking your personal experience of denial and exhaustion and projecting it on other women. Women who are hurt and seeking answers, and rather than guide them according to what peer reviewed research has stated regarding the negative impacts of pornography, you instead project your own lack of processing and emotional maturity in an effort to continue the farce that this behavior in a relationship is completely acceptable. For the women that don’t hurt when they find out their partner is viewing pornography? Okay. This may be the case for them. But for those who feel the hurt, experience the betrayal, and are looking for answers, they don’t need someone who touts themselves as an “expert” to misdirect their emotions and continue the chain of blame shifting.

    Again– read the literature. It is what any respectable, competent “expert” would do in order to provide ethical advice.

    Sunday, 16 September 2012 @ 12:55pm

  102. 102: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    hmmm.. i really liked this article for so many reasons but i can see how it is triggering, actually i kind of thought that was the whole point!
    -explore your own feelings around the subject
    -feel why it triggers you so much
    -maybe there is something you can learn, can heal, can grow from, can understand about yourself

    if porn is a deal breaker for you, that’s ok
    if its not, just something that makes you uncomfortable then isn’t it interesting to explore why its uncomfortable to you on a personal level?

    not everyone suffers from addiction or equates porn with cheating, objectification, encouraging rape, wow so many negative opinions carrying so much emotional pain

    i watch porn as often as my man does, infrequently
    we don’t hide it
    we talk about it
    it has brought us closer
    i can tell him what turns me on, what turns me off about it. so can he.
    i have moments where it triggers me greatly and moments when it feels fun, just like a love scene in a movie or a book, sometimes its hot and stimulates my imagination and sometimes it feels cheap

    its articles like this that help me look at subjects from outside my own narrow perspective, look from the outside and use the touchy subject to explore myself and my own feelings

    i don’t think dominique was encouraging anyone to put up with something they were uncomfortable with rather i felt she was sharing her own experience of exploring her discomfort and what she learned about herself by doing so

    i never had the feeling or impression this article’s purpose was to advocate women putting up with additions or emotional cheating or making the porn industry ok – wow not at all! just an opportunity to explore your own feelings surrounding the topic

    i feel appreciative for that as it has helped me explore a number of topics that i had decided were “bad” without truly exploring my feelings and beliefs for why they are bad – if they still feel bad that’s ok too but now i understand myself better for exploring it.

    i guess everyone takes a different perspective based on their own beliefs and experiences but i feel sad that they choose to use that perspective to trash someones thoughts and feelings rather than use it to explore their own.

    i feel grateful that any professional i have worked with has never made me feel judged for my beliefs, thoughts or feelings around any subject but has encouraged me to work through them and learn from them.

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 6:12am

  103. 103: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla – Thank you so much for this. I feel seen and understood. I also feel delighted that you have gained so much awareness and insight into yourself. You are a remarkable woman, open and curious. Brava to you.

    xxoo

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 6:21am

  104. 104: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Keighty. I have been reading your comments with interest but have refrained from responding. I realize every lives in their own world and have their experiences around issues. However, I never experienced Dominique as convincing herself about a lie and have to agree with Kyla’s comments. I am not into pornography nor would I encourage anyone in the past to indulge in it. What I can tell you though is that in reading Dominique’s writing I have been able to take a second look at my feelings about the subject and why I was so shut off from it. I now feel open to bringing up the subject, and even of masturbation with men. Individuals make personal choices. It is what it is. For me it is about being open minded so that other people can feel safe in my presence regardless of what their life choices are.

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 6:52am

  105. 105: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    oh you are welcome dominique xx
    i think it was reading this article that finally helped me fully understand the principle that only 10% of your feelings are actually from the situation and the other 90% is really nothing to do with it at all its from your own beliefs, ideas, experiences, fears, judgements
    its the 90% that is the most useful to explore and the most helpful to heal and i thank you and everyone else who has helped me fully understand that and get clear on what the “real” issues are/were for me :) it has healed a lot of pain, misunderstandings and arguments and relationships that were not at all about what i originally believed they were about.

    femininewowan i love this, thank you
    “For me it is about being open minded so that other people can feel safe in my presence regardless of what their life choices are.”

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 7:44am

  106. 106: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Wow Femininewoman, thank you so much for this. I feel honored and touched.

    Beautifully put.

    And as a curious aside, I don’t like porn either and would only suggest that someone possibly explore it in order to explore their possible hidden aspects. And to remain open and accepting of what is.

    Doing so changed much of how I look at things and feel about them. Doing so allowed the porn that was in my life to flow right on out of it.

    As you so love to say, what you focus on grows.

    xxoo

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 7:54am

  107. 107: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Kyla – Feels awesome to read this. Way to go.

    xxoo

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 7:56am

  108. 108: LisaNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for the response, although I’m wondering if you actually read my entire response?

    There is no black and white thinking with my perspective. I never said every person that looks at porn will be addicted. I said that you don’t know if you will be until it is too late, and that porn can be dangerous to relationships and on a personal level, even when the women are healthy and happy and secure. It is not harmless, and to insinuate that when women have an issue with porn, then it is because there is something they need to change within themselves, to convince themselves that their visceral reaction is foundationless. Women are hurt by their partner’s porn use because it IS hurtful to many women ( but obviously not all). If you are into it, great, but for those who are not and do not support the sex industry doesn’t mean there is something wrong with them. And any man that continues to use sexual entertainment that hurts their spouse is simply selfish.

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 1:18pm

  109. 109: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Lisa this to me is black and white thinking. “In fact, the brain craved cybersex and porn more because it was instant, effortless, and with endless variety. It often distorts men’s and women’s views on their bodies and sex itself, so much that men often experience ED as a side effect of porn use, because they simply cannot be turned on by a “real” woman anymore. Look up the studies, do the research and see for yourself.”

    I am tempted to ask what kind of scientific studies you did on his brain to know this? But that would be asking a question to try and trap you. You say look up the studies, without acknowledging that studies are skewed toward what the researching or statistician is trying to prove. There are good arguments and proofs on both sides of many if not all issues. Saying look up the studies tells me that you are convinced about one group of studies and have not looked at the arguments against these studies. Looking at things way suggests to me an effort to look away from the real issues. Whatever they are. This is focussing on someone else’s behavior of choice.

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 1:32pm

  110. 110: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    I actually think of pornography now as similar to the gay lifestyle. I was judgemental and closed off. I have met people who have chosen that lifestyle and became close friends with them before they spoke about their lives. Some men I get the impression scorn themselves because of it and feel helpless because they have no choice. One admitted he avoids his family because of stigma and that it is a lonely life for him. I felt very sympathetic towards him as a human being and respect him for choosing to be so open and sharing with me.

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 1:39pm

  111. 111: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Yes Lisa, I read your entire response. Have you read all of mine?

    xxoo

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 1:43pm

  112. 112: KylaNo Gravatar says:

    i read this so long ago so i’ve just read it again and all the comments too and not once did i see dominique say or insinuate that porn was ok or harmless, many times she agreed that it can be dangerous, harmful or can become addictive (to someone with the propensity for addiction). i also never read the insinuation that a problem with porn meant that woman needed healing.. just that looking at the reasons porn bothered the writer helped her greatly and meant she could still have her wonderful long term relationship that was perfect for her in every other way.

    i truly feel baffled by this “debate”.

    it feels sad that someone can’t share their own experience of something that helped them without being told they are wrong to feel that way for x,y and z reason. it feels draining. everyone’s feelings are real and valid and the reasons for the feelings are totally personal. i feel curious as to why someone would feel the need to be “right” here?

    if you are one of many women who will not tolerate porn in her life and has made a decision not to put up with it that is wonderful, good for you for making strong boundaries, knowing what you want and insisting in getting it :D

    its not my personal deal breaker and i have no intention of letting go of the most fulfilling relationship i could have ever dreamed of because my man will admit he masturbates every now and then when i’m away :D

    Monday, 17 September 2012 @ 2:34pm

  113. 113: Linda WNo Gravatar says:

    I was always very sexual, sensual, and open to (almost!) anything my man was interested in, including porn. I even initiated many scenarios for seduction and engaged in fantasy enactments based on what i and he found stimulating. What I found as our relationship continued, was that it encouraged a dopamine driven search for the next “high” and I was constantly trying to out do the last experience. When i found myself becoming somewhat co-dependant and needy and felt him becoming distant and found that he was watching porn without including me, making himself available to other women with no regard for our supposedly monogamous relationship….I began researching what porn does to a man. The newest research involves high speed internet and explains many of the reasons that men become unable to engage in a responsive and emotional connecting way in relationships with real women. The two year time period for relationship dissolvement can also be traced to the way we are all genetically programmed to pursue new and stronger genes for survival of our species. I would encourage anyone who is in a personal dilemma over how they feel their relationships are crumbling to look into http://www.Yourbrainonporn.com and read the book “Cupid’s Poison Arrow” by Marnia Robinson.
    I have begun engaging in bonding based actions with my man and have found it to be a profound way to satisfy our deep inner needs and an incredible way to strengthen our intimacy and comfort with each other sexually.

    Rori- If I have overstepped bounds in my post i would LOVE to know your response to my findings and would personally like to be able to contact you and engage in a dialog about this topic!

    Thursday, 17 January 2013 @ 9:39am

  114. 114: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Linda W – This is FANTASTIC – and SO helpful! I hope Dominique http://www.sexandheart.com sees this and incorporates it into her work – healing a man whose problem is porn, and doing it through the relationship is one of her significant specialties. Love, Rori

    Thursday, 17 January 2013 @ 10:43am

  115. 115: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Linda W – Yes I am aware of this, and I’m also aware that this is becoming an increasing problem due the ease of access and also high speed internet, as you stated.

    It’s not a given that this will happen to a man (or woman for that matter), yet it is something important to know about and watch for if your man has more than an occasional viewing habit.

    xxoo

    Thursday, 17 January 2013 @ 10:56am

  116. 116: Ernest DempseyNo Gravatar says:

    I was browsing through the posts and found this topic. I just had to click on it to see a woman’s perspective on this. Your take is absolutely dead on.
    Not only do you see and understand your man’s side of things but you are secure and mature enough to accept it.
    That takes a strong woman. Not all could get a handle on it.
    In addition, you touch on something that is essential in a man. He has to be mature enough to “not desire” the woman in the porn, as you put it. He doesn’t want to be with her. Like you said, it’s just an eyeball to penis thing. This point goes further with men who cheat. The ones who cheat have not reached a point of maturity where they can say they are attracted but do not desire.
    Terrific take on this tricky topic. Well done.

    Sunday, 10 February 2013 @ 5:45am

  117. 117: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you Ernest for posting this. It feels good coming from your perspective, the male point of view. I feel encouraged in my coaching around this. :)

    xxoo

    Sunday, 10 February 2013 @ 1:01pm

  118. 118: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    The reality of what is really going on in the porn industry.

    http://www.antipornography.org/ex_porn_stars_expose_truth.html.

    Feel so sad about this and how we all play a part in keeping this going.

    How many men who are watching really know the truth about what is happening to these women?
    Or care to want to?
    Or then come out with the line, they know what they are signing up for?
    Actually they really do not if you read the REAL FACTS. And how they find themselves in helpless situations re contracts etc.
    I have watched porn too with and without my man and yes been physically aroused believing it was a safe industry and the girls were really having fun etc.

    Supply and demand and the addiction it causes re dopamine etc.
    The viewer starts to need harder and harder stuff to get the same arousal.
    Starts off normal sex, or a little bit of kink.
    Then threesomes etc.
    Then gang bangs.
    Agree to no condoms or again, no work.
    A little bit more kink.
    And the girls are then left with the situation do the harder scene or no work.
    Then harder and harder scenes.
    Taking drugs and alcohol to get through it.
    Then spirals out of control to no way out.
    And most of these women are already damaged from past abuse.
    I feel so very sad after finding the real truth out.

    My question is do you want to play apart in this by pleasing and understanding your man whilst ignoring the very real suffering that is taking place so he can get his kicks and fix?

    Fantasy drawrings, books erotica etc where real people are not getting harmed are one thing. But the way the porn industry has gone and what is really happening behind the scenes is another.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 5:09am

  119. 119: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    It’s like with everything really, once we find out all the information, it becomes do I really want to play a part in this supply and demand? Like with kfc chicken. farmed eggs. rather than free range. Child labour. Or do I want to turn a blind eye. How does that sit with me and my conscience. Am I able to be in a relationship with a man who want to use the porn that is available today? It is these types of questions that come up.
    I get to find out what I want and what he wants and if we are a match.

    It so easily accessible and available and giving such distorted, harmful view on sex and women at such a young age to the nest generation too.
    What as a society are we all playing a part in creating?
    This is societies problem so it will take all of us to play our part if we want a better less harmful one.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 5:22am

  120. 120: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    “I could just as easily say that a great many women are very unhappy with their real like mates because they’re addicted to the fantasy relationships they find in romance novels and movies. And I have seen many. ”

    The difference is no real life person has been harmed in a fantasy novel.
    In porn that is out there to day. Real people are being harmed. Especially young women.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 5:40am

  121. 121: DominiqueNo Gravatar says:

    Not all porn actors, in fact most of them are not harmed. And most are there voluntarily. Whether they truly enjoy it or not, hmmm, some do, and some don’t. I would also say most of them likely have some deeper issues.

    Yet whatever any article may say is only part of the truth whether it advocates porn (or anything else for that matter) or whether it d*monizes it.

    Porn can be harmful to the viewer, especially with high speed internet, yet most people are not harmed by it and do not need more and more graphic images to become aroused. Like with anything, some do, and some don’t.

    It would be the same as saying a pot smoker will want to move on to cocaine or heroin.

    I don’t like porn, and in fact I mostly hate it, yet it’s there, has been there from the beginning, and from what I have researched and experienced for myself is that most men, and women for that matter, know the difference between real people and any erotica they might like to look at.

    It can be arousing without being harmful. It isn’t for most people an addiction though addictions can and do exist.

    What I find more harmful is painting anything with a wide swath and calling it bad.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 7:10am

  122. 122: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t share the belief that most of them are not harmed after discovering the reality of porn survivors out there. I now understand that reality how it works for most young girls is that new girl starts of by doing straight sex with condoms as she is new on scene then after a while they do not want her as her face is too well known for that and her choice then becomes, the next in line which is threesomes. And same thing happens, face too well known so gangbangs if you want the work, or pee fetish agree to anal. And falsely naively believing they are safe re stds when not all are screened for. Also not being told what is fully expected until they are minutes away from doing the scene then reality of owing the porn directors money if they back out of what they previously thought they were agreeing to.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 9:59am

  123. 123: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Dominique.

    How do you think a man or woman know which porn actress is being harmed?
    Some of what I looked at I wouldn’t have known by watching that the women in question was being harmed at the time.
    I only found out afterwards.
    The woman on the screen was after all acting doing her job with a fake smile on her face. And drugged to get her through it.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:04am

  124. 124: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    “And most are there voluntarily”

    Eeek. That doesn’t sit comfortable with me.
    That if someone is voluntarily putting themselves at huge risk of stds. degradation. injuries, that I then get my kicks or aid this and my man from getting his kicks and rocks off from this. And aid this supply and demand telling myself that.
    Society created this.
    And it will take society choosing not to play a part in this to create something better.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:09am

  125. 125: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    “Eeek. That doesn’t sit comfortable with me

    Society created this.
    And it will take society choosing not to play a part in this to create something better”

    So what should society do then to eliminate the supply and demand chain? Grab the girls who want to do this by the hair and throw them into cages? Or maybe castrate the men who participate as actors or viewers?

    It is what it is and has been since immemorial and will be until G!od comes. Human kind has been gifted with free will to make personal choices. No amount of “shoulding” will stop people from making their choices.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:25am

  126. 126: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    *has been since time immemorial”

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:30am

  127. 127: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    The performers report that agents are often forcing performers to do scenes or threatening them with cease and desist papers or blacklisting if the performers ask to use condoms.

    human papillomavirus is one of the most prevalent STDs in the industry, for which the industry does not test.

    Adult Industry Medicine (AIM) only feels it is necessary to test for HIV, chlamydia, and gonorrhea. There are many other STDs that a performer can catch and spread in the adult film industry, and the tests are only mandatory every 30 days. Once a performer does his or her next scene, the test that was just performed becomes null and void. During the 30-day waiting period, an unprotected adult film worker can catch and spread many STDs unknowingly.

    Very young girls of given false information, or only part of the information and are tole they will be safe.

    sets where there were blood- or semen-soaked towels or wipes laying on the floor rather than in a biohazard container, and no one did anything about it.

    https://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars
    I read this and wept.

    https://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars.

    Here is some of what is said.

    inda Lovelace

    Linda Lovelace has much to say about her pornographer: “When in response to his suggestions I let him know I would not become involved in prostitution in any way and told him I intended to leave, [Traynor] beat me up physically and the constant mental abuse began. I literally became a prisoner, I was not allowed out of his sight, not even to use the bathroom, where he watched me through a hole in… the door. He slept on top of me at night, he listened to my telephone calls with a .45 automatic eight shot pointed at me. I was beaten physically and suffered mental abuse each and every day thereafter. He undermined my ties with other people and forced me to marry him on advice from his lawyer.”

    “My initiation into prostitution was a gang rape by five men, arranged by Mr. Traynor. It was the turning point in my life. He threatened to shoot me with the pistol if I didn’t go through with it. I had never experienced anal sex before and it ripped me apart. They treated me like an inflatable plastic doll, picking me up and moving me here and there. They spread my legs this way and that, shoving their things at me and into me, they were playing musical chairs with parts of my body. I have never been so frightened and disgraced and humiliated in my life. I felt like garbage. I engaged in sex acts for pornography against my will to avoid being killed.The lives of my family were threatened.”
    Corina Taylor Portrait
    Corina Taylor

    “When I arrived to the set I expected to do a vaginal girl boy scene. But during the scene with a male porn star, he forced himself anally into me and would not stop. I yelled at him to stop and screamed ‘No’ over and over but he would not stop. The pain became too much and I was in shock and my body went limp.”
    Roxy’s Portrait
    Roxy

    “After only 30 movies I caught two sexually transmitted diseases. Herpes, a non-curable disease and HPV, which led to cervical cancer where I had to have half of my cervix removed. Porn destroyed my life.”
    Jenna Jameson
    Jenna Jameson

    “Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive asshole who thinks her name is Bitch. And these girls, some of whom have the potential to become major stars in the industry, go home afterward and pledge never to do it again because it was such a terrible experience.”
    Rayveness

    “Today’s ADULT movies are moving towards incest. Like mom’s sleeping with her son or dads sleeping with their teen daughters and this is NOT ok with me!  I can’t continue to say this job is FUN??????!!!! How can I do this job and think to promote this is ok? We also promotes "teen" movies…but we call this ADULT entertainment?”
    Anita Cannibal
    Anita Cannibal

    “I have been a performer now for 14 years in the adult film industry in many countries, states . . . all over the place. I have worked for most of these companies, and I was around for the once-a-month HIV-positive outbreak in ’98. Yes, I was, and I got to see those performers that nobody knows about—that nobody claims that got HIV, that are not a part of the statistics—walk out the door as non-performers, not to be counted.”

    “Yeah, there are a lot of cover-ups going on. There is a lot of tragedy. There are a lot of horrible things.”
    Stephanie Swift

    “I was sexually abused the first time by my step grandfather on my dad’s side and the second time by my actual stepdad so my sexuality was messed up from the beginning. I created another personality that was in complete control and didn’t have those things happen and didn’t have to deal with the pain. The industry is not a real accomplishment. It’s just a false sense of accomplishment. It covers everything up for what it is.”
    Porn Star Belladonna
    Belladonna

    “I like to hide — hide everything, you know?… And I’m not happy… I don’t like myself at all… My whole entire body feels it when I’m doing it and… I feel so — so gross.”
    Elizabeth Rollings

    “I sold my soul to the devil without even knowing it. Ironically, I later performed in a brutal gangbang for Devil’s Films.”
    Ex Porn Star Andi Anderson
    Andi Anderson

    “After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad.” – Andi Anderson
    P

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:45am

  128. 128: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    127: Femininewoman says:

    *has been since time immemorial”

    What has?

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 10:48am

  129. 129: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    internet porn and hard gangbang, extreme fetish etc have not been around since time immoral FW.

    Yes we have freewill if to watch it once we know the full facts and harm.
    And if we choose to be with men who watch it.
    That is a start to how we stop the supply and demand.
    And make the public aware of all the facts.
    Not pretending that is isn’t happening, turning a blind eye and brushing it under the carpet.
    Blaming the victim. Who are in most cases these young naive woman.

    If others choose to watch and go along with their men watching after knowing these facts, then that is up to them and their unconscious alone Their free choice.
    I have no control over if these woman get lured into this. Only if I aid abet and ignore it.

    Supply and demand.
    And also report any material out there like the max hardcore stuff. Or Khan Tusion. etc. And hopefully these type of direcors will get prosecuted.
    Just like the people who sell hard drugs etc.

    What about you FW.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:00am

  130. 130: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    conscience*

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:01am

  131. 131: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    FW.

    “So what should society do then to eliminate the supply and demand chain? Grab the girls who want to do this by the hair and throw them into cages? Or maybe castrate the men who participate as actors or viewers?”

    That feels a good question?

    I don’t believe that is the best or most viable option FW.

    That is for the individual themselves to decide what sits comfortable with them on a conscious level.

    To do nothing to me is to condone it.
    To carry on watching or aid and abet my partner again is to condone it.

    To not report something condone it.

    One thing is for sure if I always do what I did I will always get what I got.

    So for me it would be to either be extremely selective in what I watched or stop watching and to express my feelings and wants to my partner.
    And express this to anyone who asked when conversation arouse.
    They then get to choose what ever option they feel they want to take.
    Up to them.

    And to report anything that I knew was out there that crossed the line.

    What others chose to do is up to them

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:14am

  132. 132: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    I personally am no longer comfortable playing a part in the supply and demand by watching stuff where a real live human mainly women is being coerced, violated, and treated in inhumane ways and their human life being devalued and dehumanized. Now I hear the reality of the survivors what has and does go on.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:22am

  133. 133: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Books and drawings are entirely different.

    No real life person in a book or drawing is being harmed it is all imaginary and fantasy.

    Sadly although a lot of porn films are fantasy. Real people are being harmed.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:34am

  134. 134: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    https://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars
    I read this and wept.

    https://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars.

    This made me feel sad.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 11:48am

  135. 135: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/voters-in-los-anglese-back-measure-requiring-porn-actors-must-wear-condoms/story-fnddckzi-1226512864753.

    To me I would say that MOST are being harmed as film makers due to supply and demand will only make films with no condoms.
    That is just one harmful thing that has and is occurring.

    This is what the Adult porn industry had to say on Flordias new requirement for condoms to be mandatory for the sex workers and to protect their health.
    “The industry also says the requirement would damage it since porn viewers will not watch sex scenes with condoms, forcing adult film producers to relocate to where they can make saleable movies. -“See more at: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/voters-in-los-anglese-back-measure-requiring-porn-actors-must-wear-condoms/story-fnddckzi-1226512864753#sthash.LkilInpq.dpuf

    No condom movies are more saleable. So
    If girls opt for condom only movies reality is their career is over pretty damn quick.
    As there is not the demand for those type of movies.
    Sounds pretty harmful to me then for the Majority of porn stars out there. And that is just one harmful issue. Other physical harm that is occurring and deeply traumatic psychological harm also.
    Oh but that’s ok that I watch it, pay for it etc because she is choosing that harm.
    I’ll have a wannnnnk anyway.
    This is pure and simple objectionable.
    Dress ii up however we like.
    That is what is happening.

    So let me see I can safely sit here behind my screen ignoring this fact and that there is a real live person behind the screen who is being harmed and objectified masturbate telling myself oh that’s ok they are choosing to harm themselves so what I’ll play my part in the cycle and blot that fact out. Who cares? Or I can face that I am aiding and abetting and playing a part in creating that supply and demand if I choose to do that. And play my part in aiding and abetting if I choose to be with a man who wants to be part of that cycle of supply and demand.

    Another thing that feels concerning is
    All that will happening is that people are becoming desenistised as with immediate emotive and physical reactions to films doesn’t give us time to process all the the information objectively. We are just seeing what the director wants us to see and not the whole PICTURE and real life situation.

    These are real people who are being dehumanized, objectified and coerced into harmful situations.

    Or I can choose to acknowledged this and not tolerate it in my life.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 1:05pm

  136. 136: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    No condom movies are more saleable. So
    If girls opt for condom only movies reality is their career is over pretty damn quick.
    As there is not the demand for those type of movies.
    Sounds pretty harmful to me then for the Majority of porn stars out there. And that is just one harmful issue. Other physical harm that is occurring and deeply traumatic psychological harm also.
    Oh but that’s ok that I watch it, pay for it etc because she is choosing that harm.
    I’ll have a wannnnnk anyway.
    This is pure and simple objectionable.
    Dress ii up however we like.
    That is what is happening.

    So let me see I can safely sit here behind my screen ignoring this fact and that there is a real live person behind the screen who is being harmed and objectified masturbate telling myself oh that’s ok they are choosing to harm themselves so what I’ll play my part in the cycle and blot that fact out. Who cares? Or I can face that I am aiding and abetting and playing a part in creating that supply and demand if I choose to do that. And play my part in aiding and abetting if I choose to be with a man who wants to be part of that cycle of supply and demand.

    Another thing that feels concerning is
    All that will happening is that people are becoming desenistised as with immediate emotive and physical reactions to films doesn’t give us time to process all the the information objectively. We are just seeing what the director wants us to see and not the whole PICTURE and real life situations of real people.

    These are real people who are being dehumanized, objectified and coerced into harmful situations.

    Or I can choose to acknowledged this and not tolerate it in my life.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 1:10pm

  137. 137: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    * objectification.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 1:24pm

  138. 138: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    114: Linda

    Ty for sharing this.

    Saturday, 2 March 2013 @ 1:37pm

  139. 139: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Annie, Thank you for your letter, and because you feel so strongly about this – I can’t imagine that you would ever be with a man who watches any kind of porn. It’s important for all of us to make our own rules about things. Just like there are okay places to get dogs (if any dog breeding at all is acceptable), and puppy mills that are not okay – one hopes there are decent pornographers and not decent pornographers. One way pornographers are getting around this is to do girl-on-girl sex as much as possible. I’m sure you don’t want to bother researching and trying to find “decent” pornographers (if there are any), and if you do, let us know. There are channels on our TV that show some small but seemingly decent pornographers, with women who seem very happy being porn stars, that involve non-professional couples, too. Love, Rori

    Monday, 4 March 2013 @ 1:30am

  140. 140: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    I hear you and totally get and understand what you are saying Rori.
    I actually would still be looking/sharing erotica or very very selective stuff.
    be bored personally in about two minutes with girl/girl stuff

    Reality is for girl on girl, not so much money to be made and career over fairly quickly as she will get this work when new on the scene is then after a while they do not want her as her face is too well known for girl/girl public want to see a new/different face want variety and her choice then becomes, the next up the ladder of hardness which would be girl/boy with condom. And then the same thing happen, face to well known for that, so no condoms or threesomes. Being coerced made to believe it’s safe no big deal, getting swept along with it.
    Most are not very old when they start off.
    How many young girls do you really think are that wise, clued up, emotionally healthy enough to deal with these things in the moment?

    And how many are not going into this because of their unhealthy daddy issues or past abuse and prime targets to be manipulated?

    Another problem that doesn’t sit comfortable with me is the distorted view of reality on what women really want.
    And how it is effecting the next generation.

    Here is the golden question.
    Hey if it’s not that bad, how would you feel if your partner wanted to do this as a job?
    Or your child?
    Ask the men who are watching this, will you be happy is our daughter is doing this when she grows up?
    Or how about I go and do that to earn a bit more money?
    Some how makes it a bit more real when they are asked to think of it like that and bring them back to reality of guess what it isn’t just a picture/ play actress like in the make believe movies.
    This is really happening to a real person who in most cases as most porn is not girl/girl or using condoms is putting herself at harm for all sorts of things.

    Q/Why_don’t_porn_stars_wear_condoms_during_their_scenes_Won’t_the_women_risk_getting_pregnant_if_they_do_that_Or_do_they_have_some_kind_of_anti-pregnancy_pill_protocol_they_have_to_go_through

    Those who profit from the sex trades (not the actors, certainly) proliferate miseducation about STIs and STDs. And those who work in the trades are happy to believe.

    Also, the “trade” that happens in the sex trades isn’t transacted based on reality or human health. It’s about fantasy. Few people “fantasize” about condoms.
    Just as much of what we see in porn is not great in reality, much of what goes on in reality wouldn’t add to the appeal of porn to those it appeals to.

    Sadly, porn actors and other sex trades folk are at risk because people pay for fantasy. Sadder still is the cheapness of this supply and demand.

    Next time you are watching porn, if you stop to think for a second about the risks the folks who are acting in them are taking, notice if you enjoy the film. For most people, thinking about the children of these people, or the lives they must live to do what they do is a giant bummer. This is one of the many things that make fantasy better than porn. However, since we seem to be wired to enjoy watching each other have sex, those who fulfill this need are at great risk and sort of throw themselves on the pyre of the desires of the masses.

    If it were a specialized skill, perhaps sex trade workers would have some redress, or platform for setting work standard that preserved health, etc. But, it isn’t and they don’t, and won’t – likely ever. Perhaps the growing popularity of porn will create a niche for people who want to consume porn that is safe, relatively dignified, loving, healthy…what have you. Sort of like hybrid cars. Those folks could wear protection, say loving things, laugh with each other, hug, have sex and make plans to meet again. Perhaps…

    Q/Why_don’t_porn_stars_wear_condoms_during_their_scenes_Won’t_the_women_risk_getting_pregnant_if_they_do_that_Or_do_they_have_some_kind_of_anti-pregnancy_pill_protocol_they_have_to_go_through

    Until then, try and keep your kids in school until they have some sort of marketable skill and (porn) buyer beware. You may be jerking/rubbing off over another person’s greatest shame and personal tragedy.

    Monday, 4 March 2013 @ 2:28pm

  141. 141: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    * mean’t to write would be open to.

    Monday, 4 March 2013 @ 2:29pm

  142. 142: Linda WNo Gravatar says:

    Haven’t posted a response in some time. (114) What has happened since then is I explained ( for the 3rd time) to my SO how I felt about him viewing and engaging in Porn….he said he could not argue with my observations and feelings and that he would stop. What I felt…3 times…was a disconnect from him during a 2 week period. The first time he was away from me for 6 hours and (yes, I checked his devices) found porn. The second time he was away from me for a day and a half ( the afternoon between dropping his child back at his ex-wife’s and getting his gear together to come to my home) and engaged again. The 3rd time was before we were to have a romantic evening together and when he came over said he wasn’t really into it and that just because he said he was “gonna juice me up” didn’t mean he had to perform. That was enough for me. I told him I didn’t feel good about us anymore and that I was not going to be exclusive with him anymore. Within one month I have found a man who DOES NOT view porn, never has and he is everything I have ever wanted and more. Don’t settle for anything that makes you uncomfortable–especially porn— you DO NOT have to be “coached through” understanding why you should accept porn in your man’s life. If you don’t like it, don’t accept it. I participated, explored, allowed, communicated, loved, listened and finally left. There will be a man for you who will love you- don’t give up on who you believe yourself to be!

    Friday, 8 March 2013 @ 4:30pm

  143. 143: AnnieNo Gravatar says:

    Linda.

    “you DO NOT have to be “coached through” understanding why you should accept porn in your man’s life.”
    I can understand anothers perspective well enough and

    Ty for this Linda.
    This resonates with me not just about porn but about EVERYTHING.

    If we take the word porn out. And then replace that word with anything.

    you DO NOT have to be “coached through” understanding why you should accept ANYTHING in your man’s life.” that feels bad to you and you don’t want to tolerate in your life .And the word you meaning everyone as in of of the yous and us.

    If something makes us feel off and plain and simply does not sit well with our inner core and soul. LISTEN to that not what other people whoever they are tell you what you ‘should and ‘shouldn’t’ tolerate or be comfortable with.

    That is telling you your soul who you are and your feelings are wrong. And arguing with the reality of who YOU REALLY are the REAL YOU on the inside your very essence, your spirit.
    Which quire frankly is BS.
    Above all else to thine own SELF be true.

    Only our own inner HIGHER not PRIMITIVE voice knows what feels right and is right for us, not any other person.

    higher consciousness vs reptilian brain.

    Wednesday, 13 March 2013 @ 4:41am

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