2 Years In A Relationship Without Sex Or Commitment

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relationshipHere’s a letter from “Elena,” who’s enduring a relationship situation that’s actually quite common, though it seems extreme.

It’s about “waiting” for a man, holding “rules” about sex and relationship that aren’t working (in my thinking, at least) – and making a decision about a man who’s “on the fence” in so many ways…

“Rori, I have been in a relationship for 2 years that was heading towards marriage. I really didn’t love my guy first and he was the one chasing me. it took him a lot of work to get me. He treated me like a queen. I said that I don’t wanna sleep with him until we get married and he agreed. But lately, he started doubting his feelings for me and telling me that he doesn’t know if he loves me or he is just attracted to me physically.

He, later admitted that he slept with somebody and that he couldn’t help it. He begged me to forgive him and asked me to be his wife. After just 2 months, he started making comments about the way I dress and that he feels jealous when other guys stare at me as I wear tight clothes or shorts! We disputed about this issue and again he started showing reluctance towards marriage, saying that he is worried that we won’t get along!!! And he stopped calling me for 12 days now!!! I’m really fed up! I love him, though and I don’t know what to do. Any advice will be very helpful, thanks…Elena”

Here’s My Answer:

2 years is a very long time.

You must get with the Circular Dating program (since you’re not having sex, you won’t have any difficulties with it).

And – for me, it is not useful to be in a relationship 2 years without sex.

It causes all kinds of weirdness. It makes the sex way too important.

For him to wait this long without sex is weird for him.

He sounds immature, and the fact that there is no sex is just taking up too much room in his head.  Your physical attractiveness is becoming too big a thing.

There is no easy solution here.

If you sleep with him, chances are he’ll pull away and you’ll feel bad.

If you keep going like this – it won’t just simply get better.

Sex is part of relationship – and, in my experience – if you’re a grown woman “waiting until marriage” to have sex is a useless position to take.

I realize there are cultural and religious issues here – and though I want to be respectful of them, in my experience, most of the time, grownups who VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE to hold these kinds of rigid positions around sex actually have mental, psychological, and often sexual orientation issues around sex, too.

And men who have issues around sex end up being very challenging in other ways as well.

For a man – being good in bed and sexually mature is essentially about understanding women a bit, loving women, loving women’s bodies, and wanting touch and physical connection.

For a man who’s in love, sex is essentially a way of expressing that love.

If he’s not in love, it’s still a way of communicating and connecting – just not in the way you want.

Most men are not so callous and addicted as to view sex or even experience it as a physical release only – like other physical functions.

Most men would certainly NOT be interested in having sex with a woman a second time unless there was more in it for him than the physical. She would have to make him feel good in some way (okay – her being amazing in bed might be enough to make him keep coming back…but even that would wear off for him).

It would be WAY easier for a man to pay for sex and have no emotional connection than to take you out to dinner, woo you into bed, and have sex with you, and then abuse you by leaving or giving you the “friends” speech.

No matter what – he’s looking for SOME kind of human connection and human touch.

Or he’s too toxic for you to even consider seeing again.

A grown man who’ll stay close to you and (mostly) exclusive for 2 years without sex is a man with issues – especially if he knows marrying you would give him the sex.

I would love for you to consider all this, and see what your position about sex is getting you.  Is it helping you find the kind of man you want?  Is waiting 2 years a good plan?

Please read about Circular Dating here on the blog – opening your world and your heart up to other men can’t do anything but help you.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 7:42 am

    ooooh…am I first? 🙂

  2.  #2Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Hi Jilly

  3.  #3Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Two years wow

  4.  #4Dominique on March 15, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Hey Jilly!!!


  5.  #5Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 7:49 am

    hmmm…I like this article…2 years is definitely a long time to be in a relationship with no sex

    “Sex is part of relationship – and, in my experience – if you’re a grown woman “waiting until marriage” to have sex is a useless position to take.”

    I really like that

  6.  #6Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Dominique …good morning!!! 🙂

  7.  #7Dominique on March 15, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Feminiewoman – you are here too. hello.


  8.  #8Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 7:59 am

    If a relationship doesn’t seem to be moving forward or growing more expansive then that is my clue that something is “off”…this hasn’t happened to me but if I was in a relationship past the 1 year mark and all of a sudden he was having doubts….well…that would tell me a lot…

    I think it’s in commitment blueprint where Rori says a man can know within 2 weeks…I will go re-watch it to see exactly what she says but the impression I got was, we’ve always been told it takes a man awhile to really know if we are the one but that’s not true.

  9.  #9Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 8:09 am

    When do I get to be first? LOL!

  10.  #10Emoticon on March 15, 2012 at 8:23 am

    I was just reading Rori’s email from this morning, and thinking about my situation with that CD who saw us as ‘friends” and the email was on how to get his undying love. I want undying love, but will I ever get that from HIM? Maybe, maybe not. i’m not waiting to find out! If he’s ever ready to give me that he can give me a call….. if I’m not completely taken by then

  11.  #11Emoticon on March 15, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Interesting story though…. you know even while growing up catholic, i always believed in “try before u buy” (lol) so I wanted to experience what my married life (including sex) would feel liek with somebody before i married them.

  12.  #12Starla on March 15, 2012 at 8:31 am

    lk, from the other thread, thank you for offering to skype with me! I didn’t see it until this morning.
    I took a shower but didn’t feel better. i felt sad and like if i called him, i would turn him off with my bizarre, sudden sadness, and if i didn’t call him i’d look like a b*tch who doesn’t call people back. I felt trapped. I called him back because I said I would and he asked me too. And then I just broke down crying and was so paralyzed…i felt humiliated. i felt like everything was crashing down on me and i would never find anyone to ever “tolerate” my sadness, and i mean i just felt really really really bad.

    CF stayed on the phone with me for 2 hours just being there for me while I was so overwhelmingly sad and feeling very alone. Which almost made me feel worse, because I feel so afraid he will decide that now that he is seeing these parts of me, he is turned off and not interested, after i make an effort to let him in and trust him when i’m feeling low. yikes!

    but he was very kind to me, and I told him the next day was going to feel rough for me, that i feel so embarrassed already and i can only imagine how tomorrow will feel. and he said that he was just going to have to call me in the morning to tell me how amazing he thinks i am, and remind me throughout the day…

    really sweet of him. hard for me to really FEEL it and feel safe about it. i’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. and also really really conditioned to believe i am not worthy of support when i am sad (especially sad for no direct reason that makes sense to another person).

    and i just want to beat myself up as a reflex. but i keep catching myself doing it and instead sending love to myself and smiling at myself and saying “it’s okay, Starla, you’re instaforgiven anyway,” which is what CF says to me whenever stuff happens, that I’m “instaforgiven,”

    and i hope his love is real and because he wants and adores me, and not some generic humanitarian thing.

  13.  #13Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 8:32 am

    BW, from last thread – I’m happy to hear the test was negative! But yeah, still probably a good idea to try again. Or even wait a week or something. Sometimes there isn’t enough HCg in the system to show up on the home tests. A blood test from a doctor would definitely confirm. And yeah (to Brenda, or whomever), bleeding does not necessarily indicate non-pregnancy, especially early on. Interesting stuff. I can’t believe I know so much about this, even though I’ve never been pregnant. But I’ve had a few “scares.” I took a test once, and thought it was positive, but it wasn’t. (whew!) And one time, I also believe that I may have had a pregnancy that simply ended and went with my period at the time. I was glad, too, because I really didn’t want a baby with that partner….


  14.  #14Starla on March 15, 2012 at 8:36 am

    I felt scared he wanted to get off the phone with me or didn’t want to deal with me, but he just kept saying, “ohh i’m prepared to stay on this phone all night with you if it’s what you need.” and it made me feel so much better. i’ve never felt so reassured and taken care of by another human being in my whole life, except for my best friend of 18 years.

  15.  #15lk on March 15, 2012 at 8:37 am


    please pray for me. i have to do work & i’m feeling so burnt out.

    i will pray for you. ” insta-forgiveness ” is what i will try to practice from now on : )

    ahhh magic, welcome down : )

  16.  #16Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 8:38 am

    ‘Sex is part of relationship – and, in my experience – if you’re a grown woman “waiting until marriage” to have sex is a useless position to take.’

    I really like this quote as well. Well, maybe “like” isn’t the word for it. I feel some resistance, actually. But it’s helpful to hear this from what I consider to be a trusted source on relationship issues. It makes sense, according to human nature. And I know that I *do* have issues around sex, which is why I’ve tried to take this “rigid stance” in the past. And it has NEVER worked for me. Because I always FAIL to live up to this impossible standard of perfection and purity, or whatever….wow.

    I don’t know if Rori made this post because of anything I wrote recently, but I so needed to hear this. And I want to keep thinking about this and see how it feels.

    Can I LET myself be sexually intimate with a man BEFORE a marriage commitment, and be okay with it? maybe it doesn’t make me a bad person. Can it be just part of a relationship and not a scary hurdle to get over, or a way to manipulate people? Wow. So many things to think about…

  17.  #17Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 8:41 am

    “Insta-forgiven” I like that 🙂

    Starla – I missed what made you feel sad. But wow, it sounds like CF was so supportive of you. I feel a little bit jealous, but only because I think I rejected OM’s efforts to do the same 🙁 …I hope you feel better.

  18.  #18lk on March 15, 2012 at 8:44 am

    wow, starla…. sounds so different from even just a month ago when you were feeling afraid he would react to your Triggered-ness with Triggered-ness in kind….. & now you feel him brave & steady…. i feel moved thinking of it

  19.  #19Emoticon on March 15, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Awww Starla that sounds so sweet n comforting. Everybody wants someone who wants to stay on the phone with them! LOL 😀

  20.  #20Starla on March 15, 2012 at 8:46 am

    lk 14 for your work, here is the lord ganesha mantra, obstacle breaker – om gam ganapataye namaha. Maybe putting it in your ears will motivate you the way it motivates me:)


  21.  #21Starla on March 15, 2012 at 8:49 am

    and lk, here is a different version of the same mantra, but an hour’s worth and much more song-like to listen to:) it’s nice.


  22.  #22Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 8:56 am

    This is maybe a little nit-picky. But I think I know why OM “bounced” away from me. I may feel all indignant about what happened, and this and that. I may have started to “reject” him in my mind, on Friday night (and i did). But ultimately, those things didn’t do it.

    What I did was, in my panic, and overwhelm, and feeling too many feelings – instead of just feeling them and being who I was, I “did” stuff. I may have felt like “I need a break.” But I could have taken it without telling him. And then when I felt like “I am not going to leave or abandon this relationship,” I could have done it – without telling him.

    The fact that I was “thinking,” “acting” and “making decisions” by writing to him and communicating my thoughts (rather than my feelings) made me manly, in those few days after the incident. And maybe I felt so vulnerable that I needed to do this “manly” thing in order to cover up that hurt and pain. But really, I was just not letting him in and pushing him away. 🙁

    I feel sad to think about that. It seems pretty irretrievable. But maybe it’s not….

    I probably don’t want to admit that I really liked him. But if I didn’t, none of this would matter to me. And as I was talking to my boss yesterday, she said it seemed like we really liked each other. And she used the present tense, too, which was interesting. Because right now, I feel as if he DOESN’T like me. I feel “hated.” And yet, maybe that’s not true…Maybe he likes me a lot, as my feminine self.

    But he is rejecting my masculine behavior. And I can agree with him. I am not a man. I don’t need to make the decisions here. I only need to make decisions for myself. He is the man. So maybe saying that “it won’t work” was his way of staking out his masculine territory. Of making a “decision” and claiming his freedom – as a man.

    Every man wants freedom – in and out of a relationship. If he didn’t feel like I was giving him freedom, then it would make sense that he would take it for himself. And maybe that feels bad to me. But it doesn’t have to mean that he is “abandoning” me. He (as a man) just needs and wants to know that he can come and go as he pleases, and that it’s okay for him to be who he is. So if he’s free to go…then he is free and safe to return as well…. 🙂

    And that is where I still get to be feminine and soft and feeling and receptive. I am loving me. So that he can come back, and love me, too, if he chooses.

    Or not…and I also plan to upload a few new photos to my dating site. I am making plans with friends, and plan to have a good time and enjoy life. I am not giving up on me, and I am not giving up on relationship. I know I can do this…Go me!

  23.  #23Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 9:06 am

    This is worth reviewing:-

    Every mistake you and I make with men are mistakes we’ve been TAUGHT are the right things to do!
    And they’re the mistakes that men ENCOURAGE us to make – even DARE us to make.
    Men are USED to women making these mistakes, and they’re only too happy to let us make them over and over because they make things easy for them.
    These are the mistakes that make it easier for a man to avoid intimacy and responsibility, and they make him feel good in the moment.
    But the truth is – these mistakes men encourage us to make don’t make a man feel better in the LONG TERM.
    And they make us feel bad almost from the moment we make them.
    So, what are these mistakes?
    And how can we turn them around – actually reverse the whole process that’s making a man withdraw so that he’ll come running after you – even stronger than he did at the beginning?
    Until you get the program, for now, let’s look at these mistakes in a general way that will help you right now.
    Most of the mistakes we make with men look like this:
    We believe we have to:
    – find a man
    – approach him
    – get him talking
    – interest him
    – get him to call
    – make him feel good
    – show him we’re independent
    – meet him halfway about everything
    – tell him where we want to go on dates
    – make plans
    – schedule everything
    – drive ourselves
    – be understanding
    – make time for him
    – tell him what we want and pretty much keep things going by DOING something.
    (No wonder we’re tired and disheartened!)
    At some point in the “relationship,” – usually when we start getting closer physically – we begin to focus in on him in the way we’ve been taught.
    And no matter how self-sufficient and smart and strong we think we are – we turn into “girlfriends” and HOPE that the “relationship” will go where we want it to go.
    And does this work with a man?
    In fact – it pushes him away!
    And this place we find ourselves in – of believing we have to DO something to find, get, and keep the man of our dreams – this is just what we see all around us, and what we’ve likely done all our lives.
    So – how to stop DOING?
    This shift from DOING to just BEING is the difference between Masculine Energy – which is all about doing and thinking and acting, and Feminine Energy – which is all about being and feeling and experiencing.
    Just imagine – if what you want is a man who treats you well, cares for you, and ACTS LIKE A MASCULINE MAN – then what will you get if you initiate, chat up, chase, call and DO FOR him?
    What you’ll get is: Nothing

    Love, Rori

  24.  #24Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 9:10 am

    Dominique – I feel like I want to ask you something. Not quite sure how to word it…but you seem to be the expert on “healing through sex,” and relaxing and enjoying physical pleasure, even when there is some fear and maybe hurt or pain involved (emotional pain, I mean)….

    I just wish that I could do that. Or rather, I feel it in me. I know it is there. But to relax and NOT have the crazy, knee-jerk reactions that I’ve had in the past, when a situation puts me “over the edge”….I was so close to doing that this time (relaxing). But I didn’t do it. I felt it there, underneath all the anger, resentment and lashing out, and running away, even.

    In some part of me, yes, I COULD accept what happened on Friday night, and be okay with it. It’s my ego that got in the way, and felt hurt, and felt like I “needed” to reject this person for “hurting” me.

    When, in fact, the truth is, he didn’t hurt me AT ALL. That was simply a perception that I had, based on the uncomfortable feelings that I had after the fact. And I don’t know how to be comfortable with uncomfortable feelings and not make the other person feel uncomfortable as well…yet. But I’d like to.

    I’m sure there is no trick to it. I am sure it is just something that you either do it or you don’t. I feel sad and a little self-critical that I didn’t. I have this sense that that was the “me” he wanted to see – and in fact that maybe that nonchalant reaction is a little closer to “me” than the one I had. Now I feel that I’ve put a wall up between us – the wall of these layers of secondary emotions that are meant to “protect” me. When the real me is behind that wall, and I am perfectly fine. I am writing this, and wondering if I can take the wall down, and if that would help allow him to come to me? Maybe I just gave myself the answer I was looking for.

    I don’t even know what my question is. But I really value what you said before about this – about what happaned maybe just being a new step in our relationship. And that sounded good to me. I feel like I somehow managed to “screw it up” anyway. But I wonder if you have any perspective on it from the way things are now – with me having already pushed him away? (like I feared that I would….)

    And I want to work on this, because I know that if I don’t start to practice something different, then it will always come up for me. And I’m scared. But I want to know what it’s like on the other side of that “wall.”

    Thanks, Dominique!! xoxo

  25.  #25Starla on March 15, 2012 at 9:16 am


  26.  #26Dominique on March 15, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Tiffany – I find that healing through the body is one of the most effective and long lasting ways to go, and this can and will feel really good if you can include your sexuality within this paradigm.

    You didn’t screw anything up no matter how you felt then, feel now, and no matter what happens on his end of it.

    However you respond is what you need in that moment to either protect yourself or to alert yourself that there’s healing needed in this area.

    Healing through your body with or without the sexuality is a process. We have all built up years of protection and guarding in the form of tension/holding in the muscles which can and often does distort the structure.

    Unwinding these holding patterns first of takes awareness and then a gentle coaxing, encouraging those places to release.

    I did a series of youtube videos showing you how to do this. If you go to my site and register for the free e-book on the top right side of every page (you will receive the download right away), the series will be sent to you over the course of a few days.

    As for relaxing and opening via your sexuality, this too is a process. I usually suggest starting this with yourself by yourself. Exploring yourself, finding places outside and inside which not only feel good but also feel not so good, painful even.

    My book has a whole section devoted to this. It’s inexpensive and contains a wealth of all kinds of information, including healing of yourself, your relationships, supports for this, eg. herbal and essential oils, and much more.

    I don’t know if I’ve answered your question , so feel free to keep asking if I haven’t. \


  27.  #27Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 9:40 am

    I had a significant breakthrough in understanding Ryan last night, and in finding healing in my heart of hearts.

    I don’t want to give all the details, because it is some really deep stuff. I had contacted him a couple days ago, letting him know I was really struggling with depression. Here were some of his words, which I extracted from our text conversation:

    I hate to see you suffer. Especially without need. I guess the best advice is to just stay away from me until I heal. I think you should avoid me. You’re putting your hand in the fire. It’s not safe. You should avoid me for your safety. You need to stay away from me until I’m healed. It’s very important.

    It was very healing for me to have HIM protect me… And for him to finally confirm what is what after all my confusion and pain. I feel so happy that I got this from him. It’s hard to describe what it means to me, and how healing it is.

  28.  #28Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 9:45 am

    oh this post feels soooooo triggering.

    It makes me feel sad and confused and a little angry.

    I have to politely disagree with your viewpoint. I’m a virgin, waiting till marriage. It is really difficult sometimes, especially since I have been deeply in love before.

    But I am so thankful that I did not sleep with that man, even though I felt a deeper love for him than I have ever felt, because that is something I can give to the man who will TRULY love me.

    I know this might trigger a ton of people. I realize that there are probably few virgins on this blog and I know that so many precious women here have experienced pain that I may never know.

    In my personal experiences, it is usually not the man who doesn’t want to commit, but me, due to a ton of fears and insecurities.

    If a man loves you, he will give you the commitment that you want.

    If you both agree to wait, then the sex can be the final seal on an already beautiful relationship.

    You are already committed to each other, so there is no risk of awkwardness or miscommunication or of one party still “having the power” to leave the relationship.

    If you save sex for each other, you have no “good sex” to compare the other “bad sex” with, because the only sex you have is with someone to whom you are committed in marriage.

    I keep reading on this blog over and over and over again that when a woman sleeps with a man, it bonds her to him, and not the other way around.

    I keep reading that a man can have sex and simply enjoy the physical act of it, without having any kind of emotional feelings involved.

    For a woman, her sexuality involves ALL of her; her heart, mind, body, and emotions.

    While some women may be able to sleep with a man without feeling “emotionally and hormonally” bonded to him, it is my impression that most cannot.

    Sex is bonding for men too. Since it is so important to them (both sexes really,) why are we giving it up without the commitment we want?

    Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free, as the old saying goes.

    To me, when a woman sleeps with a man without the commitment she wants, she is giving up so much of her power to that man.

    I have virgin and non-virgin single friends.

    The non-virgin break-ups are ALWAYS worse. My friends have given their hearts, bodies, and souls to men and women only to have them leave them.

    Usually the man can leave the relationship much easily than her, simply because of his differences.

    Again, I know this is a sensitive topic.

    I’m not meaning to judge anybody. I’m just asking you to consider the sexual power we have as women.

    Not as a tool to manipulate our men, of course not. But as a huge motivation to commit to us, maybe yes.

  29.  #29Emoticon on March 15, 2012 at 9:48 am

    I am in the process of writing a farewell note (card) to my friend who is evicting me and also not speaking to me. I don’t hate her and i’m not even angry, but I have been scared to approach her because I know her anger can be explosive (and was), which is why I stayed locked up in my room until 2day. It feels difficult to write, but i will allow myself to be vulnerable at least on paper for now. Sigh, all the best Emoticon, just do what you need to do.

    I really am not going to explain myself, just apologize for my part in whatever happened, so that I can feel better, even if we never become friends again.

  30.  #30Starla on March 15, 2012 at 9:49 am

    lamabutterfly, your choice to wait till marriage is largely informed by your religious beliefs, is it not? Rori says this is something different, and not an indication that something is “wrong.”

    how old are you? I was almost 22 when I lost my virginity.

  31.  #31Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “Most men would certainly NOT be interested in having sex with a woman a second time unless there was more in it for him than the physical.”

    Really, Rori? How many countless letters have we read on here about broken-hearted women who have been in sex-only or friends-with-benefits situations, where the woman is in love with a man who uses her for sex?

    I don’t want to be disrespectful, but the quoted statement seems inconsistent with everything else you’ve written…

  32.  #32Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 9:54 am

    @Starla 30 – Yes, it is due to my religious beliefs. But it is also consistent with my logic, because for me, the two have to be in harmony, or else it wouldn’t be my religion, lol.

    I’m 27.

    I feel really embarassed to be a 27-year-old virgin sometimes.

    but I feel really thankful too…

  33.  #33Starla on March 15, 2012 at 9:59 am

    I’m 27 too. I understand you feel embarrassed but I think your choice is lovely if it is in line with your beliefs. I was embarrassed at 21, even though i really believed in my virginity.

    And while a part of your choice ISN’T exactly religious, your entire belief system is touched by your religion one way or another, and again, I see Rori explicitly saying in this article that this is something different, and not something she is advising against. I like your defensiveness of your choice:D I like the fire in you to do what YOU believe and not let anyone else tell you you’re wrong. But Rori’s not saying you’re wrong here;)

  34.  #34Starla on March 15, 2012 at 10:02 am

    31 lamabutterfly, sorry if it seems like I’m the Rori Defender or something, lol, but she did say “MOST men would certainly NOT be interested in having sex with a woman a second time unless there was more in it for him than the physical.” Not “all men.” And we’re a dating advice community, so I can imagine that a higher proportion of women exists here with this issue and it’s not a true reflection of the general population.

  35.  #35Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:07 am

    @33 & 34 – Starla – thank you for being so respectful, as I felt really scared to write about this!
    It feels so good to be respected!

    I think I get what you’re saying; the men who WOULD use a woman for sex without caring about her are jerks.

    but there sure to seem to be a lot of jerks out there…

  36.  #36Dominique on March 15, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Iamabutterfly – Everyone is unique, and each of us has a unique path which feels right and good to us. And our paths can change over time, meaning what we once believed doesn’t hold true over the long haul, and then again some of our beliefs stay with us always.

    There’s no need to feel anything negative about what you want even if not a single person on the planet agrees with you. Not that I think you do.

    I don’t think Rori is being contradictory though she did make a bit of a blanket statement here that I think even she will agree is not quite in line with what she thinks.

    A good man will not string you along for the sex only, and I think maybe this is what she meant.

    Also to mutually agree to enter into a FWB arrangement only to become attached over time does not make the man the bad guy.

    It has been my experience that very few FWB situations work out okay, but I suppose it has happened.

    I don’t think it’s the sex that’s the important thing here but the connection you establish and continue to create.

    It is true that most men will not want to wait for sex which is indeed a wonderful part of an intimate relationship, a beautiful sharing that only deepens an already good relationship.

    For men it’s how they best connect to us or rather feel connected to us.

    Yet there are some men out there who will wait, not many, but they are there. You will find what you want.


  37.  #37Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:10 am


    Thank you very much for what you said. I will be candid: I struggle with this issue. I was a virgin until I was 34.

    I was saving myself for the right man. At age 34, I found out for the first time that such a thing exists as an orgasm. That is one example of how utterly sheltered I was. I was growing increasingly crazed, frustrated, and emotional over not having sex.

    I had always believed it was a blessing, and it started to feel like a curse. I struggled within myself for a very long time, and it was that year that I started pleasuring myself in a serious way.

    Finally, I didn’t care anymore. I met a man at a picnic, and I offered myself to him that night. He had invited me to his house. Eventually, I took the initiative to lay down in his bed while he was in the living room. He said, “This could get kind of compromising, you know.” I had told him I was a virgin.

    He had 4 hours of foreplay with me – he made my first time special. He was amazed at my lovemaking skills, asking me, “Where did you learn THAT?!”

    I said, “In my fantasies.” And it was the truth. I wasn’t just giving him a line.

    In the years following that, I went off and on repeatedly having sex and then not having sex with men. I would explode, go for it, then retreat, feeling tremendous guilt and shame.

    Finally, I went on all-out sex binge, attending sex clubs off and on for a few years. I had sex publicly, nude, in a hot tub with about 30 men watching. I had a 4-some. I was lied to and taken advantage of at least twice by men who WANTED to get me pregnant. Then once again, I felt overwhelmed with shame and guilt. I felt the grace of God knowing that I narrowly escaped getting pregnant or diseased. I felt empty.

    I got my life right with God, and I stopped. I am not perfect, and I am not a virgin. But where I am at today is back to waiting til marriage. I believe two spirits join when two people have sex. I believe “soul ties” are a very real thing, and they can be very damaging in many senses.

    It is hard to be without sex, but I believe strongly that it has made me stronger, far stronger. I have developed a backbone of steel. I often recall the words of my precious, fatherly pastor when I was 25. He was delicately discussing sex and romance with me when I had my first boyfriend. He had said, “With the right person, you should be able to talk about sex like mashed potatoes and gravy.”

    After I felt his purity toward me in a fatherly way, I ventured to say to him, “I have always heard that everybody has a God-shaped hole that only God can fill. I am saying that I have a man-shaped hole, that only a man can fill!”

    He laughed heartily! Then he said with such kindness, “You’ll just have to control yourself, dear! A relationship needs to come together first on a spiritual level, then on an intellectual level, then on an emotional level, and last on a physical level. If any one of these levels are skipped, the relationship will ultimately short circuit.”

    His words held deep wisdom. I have tested and tried them over the years, and my conclusion is this: He is right, and I wish I had just stayed with that. I would have saved myself much pain.

    Part of my personal quest right now is to find a way to do this and truly be strong, and to truly be at peace with saving lovemaking for the marriage bed. It is hard. So many slip because they learn these ideals but can’t actually live them (obviously, myself included).

    Yet after 48 years of life, and far less sex than the average person, I find it IS possible, and the character and strength I have developed in holding out is valuable. Pride goes before a fall, so let me be quick to say I am forgiven, not perfect, and that I have had sex within the last year. I am growing and becoming.

  38.  #38Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 10:11 am

    RE 31 Iamabutterfly I post some comments yesterday to maybe BW, can’t remember now, after reading Lilibee’s comments. I don’t know where you live but I was listening to Elvis Duran on Z100, a radio talk show where they were discussing sex. A man called in saying he met a girl who was perfect in every way. Her looks, body, every way was what he said. What killed it for him, he said, was the fact that she had sex with him the first time out. They were basically discussing if they can do sex for just sex regardless of how terrible a man might be, just because the sex is good. I have the man’s point of view before but experiencing someone who actually lived it was shocking to me. Apparently he wanted more with the girl but the fact that she did not want to hold out on sex ended up with him feeling turned off by the following day. I am not saying this is the rule because I am sure any number of people could argue about it. All I am saying is that it exists, at least for this one man. I get the impression that maybe he somehow felt that was what she was in it for.

  39.  #39Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:11 am

    I’m thinking of this friend I have who really liked me. I loved having him as friend, and I was VERY sexually attracted to him. But I didn’t feel a spiritual or emotional connection with him, so I didn’t feel right agreeing to relationship with him…

  40.  #40Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Two more comments that are related: As I have said, Ryan has evil spirits. We never had out-and-out sex, but we played sexually. He did not have sex with me because he knew the evil spirits would transfer. It became clear that even with the light sexual play we had, I was attacked directly. It is something too deep to say any more here.

    The other comment is the retired cop I dated the other day said in his career as a cop in a major city, he arrested almost 100 priests for sexual crimes during his 6 year tenure.

  41.  #41Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:13 am

    @38 Feminine Woman – Thank you SO MUCH for your comment. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I’m talking about…

  42.  #42Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Emoticon I so feel your pain but I believe you are on a good path.

  43.  #43Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:18 am

    @36 Dominique – Thank you so much for your comments. You are always so gentle and truthful and respectful and I can’t thank you enough for that.

    I just had one question: what does FWB stand for?

  44.  #44Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Ok Mr. Chemical is into texting photos, and he sent me a photo of him with sunglasses in his car that he just took today.

    I don’t find him all that handsome, just average, not ugly. So I said “Nice!”

    He said, “Nice, but do you find me attractive?”

    I said yes, but I feel yucky when a man fishes for a compliment. It feels forced. I don’t know. Is this just me or would you feel turned off, too, if a man asked that?

  45.  #45Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Now he wrote, “Want me? LOL”

  46.  #46Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:21 am

    I wrote, “The jury is still out on that. I haven’t met you yet. I feel pressured.”

  47.  #47Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:22 am

    I didn’t say all this, BTW:

    but I feel yucky when a man fishes for a compliment. It feels forced. I don’t know. Is this just me or would you feel turned off, too, if a man asked that?

    At that juncture, I just said “yes” (I was attracted).

  48.  #48Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Mr. Chemical: I was just saying Brenda…please don’t feel pressured.

    I just said “Ok”, but what it reminds me of is when a little kid who doesn’t know any better says, “Mommy, look! Watch me swing! Didn’t I do a good job?”

  49.  #49Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:25 am


  50.  #50Dominique on March 15, 2012 at 10:26 am

    FWB = friends with benefits


    PS – you’re welcome Iamabutterfly.

  51.  #51lk on March 15, 2012 at 10:32 am


    wow, he sounds fun to txt with… : ) good practice !! : )

  52.  #52Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:32 am

    @37 Brenda – ((((Hugs)))) I understand the struggle completely, believe me. I have pleasured myself, upon discovery of it when I was really little. Of course I had no idea what I was doing, but I still felt guilty for some reason.

    I have found that “the self act,” if you will, accomplishes nothing. It feels good, of course, but it doesn’t bond you to anyone, unless of course you are fantasizing about a specific someone you know while doing it…

    What does accomplish is producing a desire for the act of sex itself.

    That may be why it was so much harder not to give into that guy when you were 34…

    That’s why I try to avoid “the self act…”

    The bible talks about fleeing lust. It’s not considered lust within the marriage union!

    If I get all turned on by a man, I get myself out of the position.

    The desire does pass if you can distract yourself, and if the man respects you, though he may feel jilted, he will let you get out of the compromising position.

    and still want to be with and get to know you on deeper levels!

    I’ve had and seen it happen!!

    The fact that I didn’t have sex with the guy who broke my heart didn’t lessen the pain for me. It still took me three years to get over, and it still hurts sometimes.

    But will it hurt when I give the last thing I have, my body, to the man I marry?

    I doubt it.

    The fact that I didn’t have sex with the guy who broke my heart didn’t lessen the pain for me.

    Except that maybe it did…

  53.  #53Starla on March 15, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Brenda, 48, he seems sincere in responding to your feelings appropriately. Remember to cut guys slack. As socially awkward women, we do and say stuff all the time that probably makes us look like losers, lol, remember that when guys are trying to win you over.

  54.  #54Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:41 am

    For anyone who’s interested in an example of a man fleeing a sexual situation…


  55.  #55Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:41 am


    RE: #53 – Thanks for the reminder. He is in the process of turning me off.

    I playfully sent him a picture of my German Shepherds yawning in the passenger seat of my car, saying “This is what I look like today.”

    He said “Nice pet!”

    B: No, that’s me! 🙂

    C: Scary!

    B: What big teeth I have!

    C: LOL!

    B: 🙂

    C: Have to be extra careful if we get intimate…lol

    B: LOL

    C: I don’t want to get bruised on sensitive body parts…lol

    I did my last “LOL” to be gracious, as you are saying. Then he had to go there and give me a graphic thought of his penis. I feel turned off.

    So far, I haven’t responded. Being gracious by not writing “I feel turned off”, I guess. I mean heck, I have already told him I wanted it to develop organically. I feel pressured at every turn. I have already told him I don’t want to go straight to sex. I feel like he is on the verge of disrespecting my boundaries, and we haven’t even met yet.

  56.  #56Jessie1000 on March 15, 2012 at 10:45 am

    I like guys who know how to have fun without trying to get me in the back seat or pushing on the first dates to go to their house and “cuddle” which generally means, kissing on the couch, kissing in the bedroom, soon kissing all the parts and next thing you know then you dont know him but your vulnerable because you;ve opened yourself up to someone and have no idea if they are 1. datable. 2. broken. 3. married or committed to someone else. 4. seeing lots of other girls. 5. or the worst one….absolutely amazing in bed but a child in all other aspects of the relationship…you know him girls…the runner….books as soon as you start to like him or worse yet, gets you to like him but cant seem to have feelings for a fencepost never mind a woman!!! lol
    I hate the vulnerable part of the way too quick into bed so I like to try them out for a long time before I get my self into situations where I dont know what to expect. Lol
    I was a virgin till I married my first husband and he never cheated on me and would still fly back with me if he could….he said you have mastered the art of having fun….sometimes…I see in my girl friends that they dont know what to do to have fun….they are insecure and are afraid to wait and ask for a real date (I tell them right off…i dont make out but I will go on a Date with you….and usually the guys surprise me!) but one of my friends….M. she finds a man, takes him straight to bed, usually falls for the best lover, eventually falls for them and they dump her soooo hard. They dump her like a hot potatoe because they had no interest in Dating…they just wanted sex and showed that from the very first because they wanted a girl who was wild in bed not a girl that was fun to take snowboarding…..Get to know the guys first…their friends, their past, their interests and HOLD OUT! If they dont feel like going out they may not even want to be seen in public with you…PLAYERS are notorious for that….they can date 10 girls in a small town because they never go in public with them lol and they call you baby so they dont mix up the names of the girls (lol and they are usually the sexiest and the most fun too but have hearts of stone).

    I feel like all of you women on this blog are so wonderful and have had such hard times, I see loneliness abounds in many of the girls that struggle with men who drop out of sight and abandonment stuff and ive experienced them too but I have been using Roris words and they work like a charm.
    “That doesnt make me happy” and sometimes I even say “I need you” and my man (the one I like the most) always says OMG do You? YOu always seem like you dont need anything! Lol and if he cancels or wants to do something with me that is boring …I say…the gym is fun and I like to do chest with you (lol he makes me do weights) but I want to do something that will make ME happy tonight and he says –ok and I say think about it….so last week when I said that i didnt want to just go to the gym, he surprised me and took me to a romantic restaurant lol with candles and beautiful art on the walls….

  57.  #57Starla on March 15, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Brenda, I think he’s just an eager beaver. Try to put yourself in his shoes.

    It must feel uncomfortable to have a decent and available man come on to you. Sink into your feelings. Even if it’s judgment. Go slow. You don’t have to respond quickly to his texts. He is the first man in your brand new sireny dating life. You can do things differently with this one:)

  58.  #58Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:52 am


    RE: #52 – “I understand the struggle completely, believe me. I have pleasured myself, upon discovery of it when I was really little. Of course I had no idea what I was doing, but I still felt guilty for some reason.

    I have found that “the self act,” if you will, accomplishes nothing. It feels good, of course, but it doesn’t bond you to anyone, unless of course you are fantasizing about a specific someone you know while doing it…

    What does accomplish is producing a desire for the act of sex itself.

    That may be why it was so much harder not to give into that guy when you were 34…

    That’s why I try to avoid “the self act…”

    The bible talks about fleeing lust. It’s not considered lust within the marriage union!

    If I get all turned on by a man, I get myself out of the position.

    The desire does pass if you can distract yourself, and if the man respects you, though he may feel jilted, he will let you get out of the compromising position.

    and still want to be with and get to know you on deeper levels!

    I’ve had and seen it happen!!

    The fact that I didn’t have sex with the guy who broke my heart didn’t lessen the pain for me. It still took me three years to get over, and it still hurts sometimes.

    But will it hurt when I give the last thing I have, my body, to the man I marry?

    I doubt it.

    The fact that I didn’t have sex with the guy who broke my heart didn’t lessen the pain for me.

    Except that maybe it did…”

    I like to shock Christian circles by saying that if I didn’t pleasure myself, I would have been pregnant and diseased many times over! I could NOT continue if I didn’t do that. So I suppose that is a matter of opinion and preference.

    Even James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” okays self-pleasuring for adolescents and teens. It keeps me from having sex with men. If I didn’t do that, whew, no telling where I’d be every night!

    I think fleeing lust is avoiding having excessive sexual thoughts over a man. I feel no guilt whatsoever in pleasuring myself. It keeps me alive and keeps me tapped into who I am as a feminine woman.

  59.  #59Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Oops, I didn’t mean to completely repost your post.

  60.  #60Julie on March 15, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Hello everyone..boy can I relate to this sex discussion. I grew up poor, and my father deserted us when I was 2 years old. I remember someone came into my bedroom when I was sick with the mumps and molested me. I only have vague impressions of who it was but I guess in my mind he represented “a man with power who talked softly to me and asked if it felt good” But when my mother took me across the street to a diner run by friends
    I screamed bloody murder, cried and tried to wrap myself around one of the stools. She thought it was funny and embarrassing and laughed. She never tried to figure out why I reacted like that (I was 7). By the way I had a brother for years older) who was kind and a genius, but when we had vagina/penis intercourse (He didn’t penetrate when I told him it hurt). I agreed because I loved him very much and I masturbated a lot! Talk about those fantastic fantasies!! I”ll resume in the next post…

  61.  #61lk on March 15, 2012 at 10:55 am


    Back in 1958, John Steinbeck, author of East of Eden, The Grapes of Wrath, and Of Mice and Men, got a letter from his teenage son Thom, in which Thom confessed that he had fallen desperately in love with a girl named Susan at his boarding school.

    Steinbeck wrote this wise and wonderful letter back to him the same day…

    New York
    November 10, 1958
    Dear Thom:

    We had your letter this morning. I will answer it from my point of view and of course Elaine will from hers.

    First — if you are in love — that’s a good thing — that’s about the best thing that can happen to anyone. Don’t let anyone make it small or light to you.

    Second — There are several kinds of love. One is a selfish, mean, grasping, egotistical thing which uses love for self-importance. This is the ugly and crippling kind. The other is an outpouring of everything good in you — of kindness and consideration and respect — not only the social respect of manners but the greater respect which is recognition of another person as unique and valuable. The first kind can make you sick and small and weak but the second can release in you strength, and courage and goodness and even wisdom you didn’t know you had.

    You say this is not puppy love. If you feel so deeply — of course it isn’t puppy love.

    But I don’t think you were asking me what you feel. You know better than anyone. What you wanted me to help you with is what to do about it — and that I can tell you.

    Glory in it for one thing and be very glad and grateful for it.

    The object of love is the best and most beautiful. Try to live up to it.

    If you love someone — there is no possible harm in saying so — only you must remember that some people are very shy and sometimes the saying must take that shyness into consideration.

    Girls have a way of knowing or feeling what you feel, but they usually like to hear it also.

    It sometimes happens that what you feel is not returned for one reason or another — but that does not make your feeling less valuable and good.

    Lastly, I know your feeling because I have it and I’m glad you have it.

    We will be glad to meet Susan. She will be very welcome. But Elaine will make all such arrangements because that is her province and she will be very glad to. She knows about love too and maybe she can give you more help than I can.

    And don’t worry about losing. If it is right, it happens — The main thing is not to hurry. Nothing good gets away.



  62.  #62Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:56 am


    RE: #57 – Thanks! I’m trying to take it easy on him. Right now I feel like chewing him up and spitting him out, LOL!

    It seemed to work to just not respond to his sexual implication. I think most men think “woman” and their next thought is “sex”. It seems synonymous to them.

    Well, it’s not. I have a spirit, mind, and heart, too. The path to my body is thru my spirit, mind, and heart.

  63.  #63Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 10:56 am


    RE: #54 – Go!

  64.  #64Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Oh Brenda, I just read comment #37 in full.(((((Brenda))))) – You are such an amazing woman! I’m not perfect either, TRUST ME.
    I am so proud of you!

    and I love this:

    “A relationship needs to come together first on a spiritual level, then on an intellectual level, then on an emotional level, and last on a physical level. If any one of these levels are skipped, the relationship will ultimately short circuit.”

    I agree with that almost 100%, with the only exception being that it doesn’t necessarily happen in that order…

  65.  #65Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:00 am


    Thanks for sharing! I appreciate all you had to say!

  66.  #66Julie on March 15, 2012 at 11:02 am

    It’s interesting to note that his niece was a real nymphomaniac who talked about sex and in fact we both striped for an older man who sat lonely in his kitchen at night (I don’t think he got much). Boy was that fun – my breasts were just little buds and I was skinny and aged 13 then. She was also a sadist who tormented me and got me into situations where I got hurt. Oh, and she and I masturbated together and she said when we got boyfriends we would masturbate together !!? She became very promiscious (SP) and had an out of wedlock baby boy.

  67.  #67Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:04 am


    RE: #63 – Thank you! Yes, I have tested that statement over and over about how a relationship develops. And every time, it short circuits when we don’t start out with spiritual and intellectual commonality.

    Anyone can have a physical connection: cats, dogs, mice, rabbits, bugs. Lots of creatures can have emotional connections, such as dogs.

    But it is far more challenging to find both an intellectual and spiritual connection.

  68.  #68Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Brenda I don’t see the question “do you find me attractive” as fishing for complements. I have gotten it myself from some guys and I believe that men know within minutes if they want to be with you. I believe this kind of question is kind of an assumption that women work the same way as men. They are visual so maybe they are wondering if we feel turned on in our body in any way when we look at them? The way they feel when they look at us? I believe they ask that question because of their own fear of rejection. Not wanting to move forward only to be rebuffed. I might be wrong but this is what I suspect is happening with them. I believe even the most handsome man has insecurities because they get rejected so often.

  69.  #69Francesca on March 15, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Oh, Brenda, I so know what you mean.

    Awkward feeling, right?

  70.  #70Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 11:08 am

    I love the song, by Sarah Mclaughlan, Sweet Surrender.

    Everyone thinks it is talking about sex, and maybe it is, but to me, the song is about the sweet surrender and intimacy of prayer.

    “you take me in
    no questions asked
    you strip away the ugliness
    that surrounds me

    are you an angel?
    am I already that gone?

    I only hope
    that I won’t disappoint you
    when I’m down here
    on my knees.

    (I know what some people think that last stanza is about, but in my interpretion it’s about surrendering in prayer. I feel like I’ve surrended in prayer right here on this blog…)

  71.  #71Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Jessie1000 I feel bad reading your initial comments and am happy to note that you have had good experiences as well.

  72.  #72Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:11 am


    Yeah, it seems to happen simultaneously and interchangeably. But again, I keep coming back to the advice of my drop-dead-gorgeous cousin, who I will refer to as Alaska (he lived most of his life there).

    He was messed up with drugs and alcohol from age 11 to 41. Finally he got his life right with God, and everything else followed. He is now married and has a good job and my Mom has become like a spiritual mother to him. He calls her about every week and sometimes every day.

    So it was very meaningful to me when he gave me this advice about Ryan 3 years ago, when I was first getting to know him: “I strongly advise you to establish a spiritual friendship with him. I used to have a woman in my bed every night before I gave my life to God. But as I’ve looked back over my life, the relationships that have lasted, outside my wife, are just three: my pastor, your Mom, and another friend. What those three have in common is that I have a spiritual friendship with them.”

    He said romance comes and goes, but if I establish a spiritual friendship with him, it will protect my heart while possibly making a lifelong friend, even if he doesn’t turn out to be my husband.

    I wish I had fully adhered to his advice. I started out doing it, and we prayed and read the Bible together almost every evening. But quickly my feelings multiplied, and I couldn’t hold them back.

    This is the path I want to take from now on. What I am doing right now on craigslist is more like “man snacks”, like Rori suggested in another thread about when you are waiting for THE relationship.

  73.  #73Julie on March 15, 2012 at 11:14 am

    I became promiscous myself (aged 18) not because I was so horny but that was the only way I thought I could make a man pay attention me. I did meet a real nice man (a long blond haired biker!). He and I had sex on the first date (he was dating others) then talked a week later and he casually asked my plans about possible marriage and I was very vague in my answer, so decided At that time I had moved back into their house he got real mad and was both angry and worried. I lost my virginity at 18 to my best friends brother (3 years older) my friend was angry that I messed the sheets!) All this

  74.  #74Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 11:17 am

    @60 lk – Absolutely beautiful! Thanks for posting.

  75.  #75Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:26 am


    RE: #66 – What you said sounds right on. I don’t feel attracted to him. Do you think I should bow out now? Or should I CD for the experience?

  76.  #76Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 11:30 am

    @70 Brenda – “but if I establish a spiritual friendship with him, it will protect my heart while possibly making a lifelong friend, even if he doesn’t turn out to be my husband.”

    This feels good to read.

  77.  #77Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:32 am


    I can’t believe I never heard that song before! Beautiful! Very Sireny, too, saying all she has to give is sweet surrender:


  78.  #78Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:37 am


    This song is fascinating, truly open for many avenues of interpretation. Check out the comments below the lyrics in this link:


  79.  #79Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Dominique – Thank you! (#26) What a fast and lovely response! I believe I already have your free ebook, but I am curious to check out the videos as well. Thank you so much!!


  80.  #80Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Its not about sex. It’s not the last thing you have to offer. It’s not the only thing you have to offer.

    Making it that will twist relationship and ones own view of their worth and identity.

    It’s always about heart. There’s infinite opening to offer a man for life.

    Men who leave women for having sex first off are the unhealthy psychological around sex kind. It’s easy to brush off but I’ve noticed it.

    Men who aren’t into sex can be more clingy and feminine and… The problems surface later… Dum duum

  81.  #81Tiffany on March 15, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    lk – thanks for posting that letter from John Steinbeck in #60! Wow! such a thoughtful letter….

    I loved this:
    “Girls have a way of knowing or feeling what you feel, but they usually like to hear it also.”

    Tehee. That’s so true! 🙂 (about me, anyway : )

    “And don’t worry about losing. If it is right, it happens — The main thing is not to hurry. Nothing good gets away.”

    Awwww…that makes me feel better already. Like a warm hug….

  82.  #82Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    ‘But will it hurt when I give the last thing I have, my body, to the man I marry?’

    This is the part that I feel icky reading. Feels so sad that this woman thi ks her body is the last thing she has – its all so dramatic and sex focused

    When with that energy she could be thinking of opening her heart of creating a fun life etc

    So now basically her self worth is lower cuz of the focus on sex as something to offer

    Instead of something to receive and enjoy… No wonder it comes up… There’s no mention of receiving enjoying

    Just offering like a sacrifice. Like ‘giving it up’

    Ugh this image and thoughts trigger me.
    My tummy feels lurchy. I feel sad and mad. I want to heal this.

    I want my lil girl to have a strong foundation in new beliefs that feel good.

  83.  #83Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    I feel so angry about this! Rargh. I feel scared to feel angry and express it on blog. I feel angry about the times I’ve felt mocked for expressing here. I feel so mad!

    I feel so exhausted now. I feel tight in my thighs umm

    I love the tightness in my thighs. I love my turned tummy .


    That woman is going to feel bad and misunderstood and horrified and angry at my comments. And I feel unconfortable thinking that.

    I feel guilty.

    Am I judging? I’m judging my lil girl who gets all dramatic and low self esteem about sex. For acting like its huge. And thinking its the most sacred thing she has.

    I love me. I’m all sacred my sex is my heart is all beautiful me I’m sacred And touchable

  84.  #84Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Daria #77 BRILLIANT!!! I love it!!
    This feels so true for me and resonates with my experience

  85.  #85Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    @79 Daria – Why does it feel dramatic and sex focused?

    “That woman is going to feel bad and misunderstood and horrified and angry at my comments. And I feel unconfortable thinking that.”

    It’s okay. 🙂 I don’t feel any of those things.

  86.  #86Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “Its not about sex. It’s not the last thing you have to offer. It’s not the only thing you have to offer.

    Making it that will twist relationship and ones own view of their worth and identity.

    It’s always about heart. There’s infinite opening to offer a man for life.”

    I agree with all of this…

  87.  #87Jilly on March 15, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Dominique @36…that felt good to read… it is about the connection 🙂

  88.  #88Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Iamabutterfly – thats how my mind patterns sometimes. i think of imaginary stuff that the other person will feel (since i cant ever really know anyway just guess).

    i still feel surprised you dont feel that way. i wonder what you did feel. surely at least defensive

    i feel like i was judging you. sorry about that.

  89.  #89Starla on March 15, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    CF texted me to remind me he thinks I’m amazing, awww, thank you CF. I texted back a little heart (<3) and he texted back more hearts and sweet stuff. I said "thank you for being there for me last night." He replied:

    "You are most welcome:) and i'm still there for ya, and i'll be there tomorrow, and the next, and the next…i care tons about you, lovely Miss Starla <3"

    omg wtf this feels CRAZY. I really don't think anyone has ever been supportive to me quite like this (except my very best friend, but i'm getting tired of adding this disclaimer every time haha)

  90.  #90Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    “Men who leave women for having sex first off are the unhealthy psychological around sex kind. It’s easy to brush off but I’ve noticed it.”

    While that may be true for some men, I’ve heard from multiple sources that “giving it up too soon” totally makes a lot of men lose respect for the woman.

    “Men who aren’t into sex can be more clingy and feminine and… The problems surface later… Dum duum”

    I don’t know any men or women, for that matter, who aren’t into sex, unless something is physiological or emotionally dysfunctional.

    Do you know any healthy, normal men or women who aren’t into sex?

    I don’t…

  91.  #91Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    i feel guilty for possibly judging you or saying something that might make you or someone feel upset

    i guess i feel scared of the response

    eeeeh 😛 i still feel tummy turning

    i want to really focus on honoring my lil girl and letting her express herself right now

  92.  #92Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    @85 Daria – aw, it’s okay. I feel like I triggered you. It’s a sensitive topic…

  93.  #93Goodheart on March 15, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Oooh Jilly, can’t wait to read the article!

    So nice that Rugby Man just keeps getting better & better 🙂

    Yesterday morning I woke to a wonderful smell & when I followed it I found my bf carrying a plate of scrambled eggs to me. He said he got up early & decided to make breakfast. Then he said he also folded all the laundry & put it away!

    I almost proposed 🙂

  94.  #94Jessie1000 on March 15, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Femininewoman–you are so knowledgeable and I do feel bad sometimes because my childhood left me broken and battered. I had no foundation my parents chucked me away and it took years…literally years to find good people to care for me the way i deserved because I refused to let anyone in or get close to me….but one thing my “cult” that I grew up in taught me was how to have alot of fun and create community without sex…lol we had alot of get togethers, food sharing, visiting, interest in the older generation, singing, playing music, playing cards, games and when I do these things now with my people and my friends and my kids friends, they love it…a lost art in this world of video games, concrete and shopping malls….community is the hardest to lose and the most diff. to build and it is community that gives you a buffer between break ups and when no boys are in sight because then you can sit with people that are just like family and do rituals, build bonds of love and share children and food….its the best….but I do get sad because my first 20 years was complete madness…lol but not anymore

  95.  #95Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    iamabutterfly – ok to me, i would say youre not into sex, for example

    also the guy who didn’t have sex with anyone but his ex gf and doesnt want to have sex with women and hasnt in 3 years but he wants a gf and to get married

    ok those things might seem ok or normal to you and him and some people

    but to me theyre red flags – this guy is NOT into sex enough i think

    i feel uncomfortable with the idea that he doesnt want to have sex with women in general

    i actually judge Myself for thinking that

    and i wonder if im actually messed up and this isa Good guy (it seems that way now that im writing)

    but the truth is eharing that i was like. aha red flag red flag. dont forget and ignore. this WILL come up again around sex. he thinks his body is a temple and doesnt want to share it with anyone

    well hey buddy it can be a temple AND be shared

    it felt kinda scary to me. i felt judgemental. i feel concerned i would feel judged personally.

    i wonder what it was about that. i know that i remember hearing taht man who can go long like that without having sex is low libido in marriage too

    i just dont feel comfortable eiht a man i judge as ‘prissy”

    you’re too prissy to satisfy women who want you? i feel judgemental and turned off

    and now i feel judgemetnal of myself and scared

    i want to heal this

  96.  #96Starla on March 15, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    What a double standard to concern myself with if a man will lose respect for me if i sleep with him too quickly. Umm he slept with me too! It’s not like U forced him to sleep with me. This is like blaming the woman for arousing men and expecting them to cover and stay in the home, like men can’t control themselves.

    What a crock.

    And it wasn’t her sleeping with him that turned him off. I’m sure it was her clinginess and neediness that she exhibited with him one way or another following the fact, but he wasn’t self aware enough to know the difference.

  97.  #97Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    oh i feel tight at the base of my spine

    and i feel vibraty and angry

    on guard



    im ready to block any attack


    im READY

    i love myself

    im open to healing

    i feel guilty and afraid

    i dont want to communicate in the pattern of blaze detached judgement

    bec i feel SCARED

    i feel scared under it

    i feel scared that “im” being judged

    maybe ‘these people’ are right and im wrong

    maybe im wrong and not good at relationship building by being open sexually!

    i love me

    i want to heal

    i give myself permission to be open sexually and receive and know im worth an infinity of wonderfulness

  98.  #98Daria on March 15, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    i can tell this is actually deep and a big deal for me.

    cuz i havent had sex very much lately and this may be what is under that

  99.  #99Starla on March 15, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    *not like *i* forced him to sleep with me. sorry for typos:)

  100.  #100Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    @92 Daria – GIRL, I CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE SEX. But I am waiting, because that is my boundary.

    I am pretty sure I will be even more into sex when I can have as much as I want with my husband who loves me! 🙂

  101.  #101Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    @92 Daria – did you feel rejected by the man because he didn’t want to have sex with you? maybe “not into sex enough” really could mean “not into me enough?”

    He may have found you sexually attractive, but that was just his boundary…he wasn’t rejecting YOU he was rejecting doing something sexual with you…

    make sense?

  102.  #102lk on March 15, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    i think 1 reason i get mad when a girl flirts with my man is that i think she thinks she is prettier than i am or more valuable & i guess i feel afraid she is right. sometimes, i feel like dirt. that’s life, i suppose… hm… next time i feel a little green demon’s tongue in my ear, i’ll try reminding myself that starla thinks i’m a pretty girl : ) … ummm…. &…… that i write really nice sentences sometimes….. & that…… my grandma really thinks i’m good & smart……. & ………….. none of these things are going to work for me. i need another way. i need a way that comes from inside, not outside.

  103.  #103Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    @99 lk – I feel the same way a lot of times…

    Our looks are going to fade.

    Our worth does and HAS to come from inside…

  104.  #104Starla on March 15, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    lk, when i get jealous, i just turn it into a game called “out-girl that ho”

    so instead of focusing on how jealous i’m feeling about her, or how intimidated/threatened/anxious i’m feeling, i focus on how to be completely in feminine energy, to “out-girl” her.

    even if she’s in my mind only, and i’ve only heard stories of her and never seen/met her, i can play this game with myself.

  105.  #105Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    my looks dont fade i just get more beautiful

  106.  #106Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    LK – how do you feel about being skype friends? i requested u

  107.  #107lk on March 15, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    lol… @ iamabutterfly… i meant i need a reason that comes from Internal sources (my own self-perception) rather than External sources (feedback from other “authorities”)…. i feel sure that you are right about finding self-worth beyond our appearances. i feel like a banana-colored alien baby with bug eyes normally, so reassuring myself that i am “pretty” would feel odd & untrue (although i do not think i’m not pretty…just… that the specific orientation & proportion of my features does not feel meaningful to me in any way)……………… internal worth. i am infinite strands of light & the whole universe rests on the fabric i weave with my laughter : ) yum

  108.  #108Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Iamabutterfly – no, thats never happened and i would not feel comfortable with “his boundary”

    that would be a red flag for me and i would no longer date a man who wouldn’t have sex with me

  109.  #109Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    interesting… the specific orientation and proporation of my feautures feels DEEPLY meaningful and glorious to me

    i can see my ancestors and read and feel my memories in my body and structure…

  110.  #110lk on March 15, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    niiiiice i like “out-girl that ho” lol

    & daria yes i would love to skype : ))) & also, yes, i do not Fade – i become more Luminous, actually !

  111.  #111Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    im feelin really pist off and i think im geting in a pattern of being the nagging disagreer


    and im judging myself for it

    and i love me

    and i want to feel comfortable and i dont!

    ew gross! that is just his boundary? no thank u

    no men with sexual boundaries for me

    i like men who are free and healthy and generous with their sexuality


    i feel outraged to have that suggested to me

  112.  #112Iamabutterfly on March 15, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    @101 Starla – Love that!
    @102 Daria – and that!


  113.  #113lk on March 15, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    @daria 106…

    hm i’m noticing i don’t want to believe in any hierarchies & this makes me feel very uncomfortable with all ideas of Pretty or Not Pretty or Prettier or Less Pretty….. i don’t want to believe in Measuring like that.

    BUT i can feel pleased in my own body & read it like a Family History & that feels good to think : )

    & now i’m imagining when i “don’t like” someone… maybe i can try Reading their History in their face : ) that makes me feel amused & loving : )))

  114.  #114Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    seriously i feel outraged and babbling and outta control losing control

    i feel SOOO Icky and unworthy when a man doesnt want to please me in some way physically

    i feel like running away AND punishing him



    i feel sooooo uncomfortable

    i feel so unworthy and insecure in such situations

    omg i dont want to expose my lil girl to such ‘issues’

    i feel tense and scared

    and i still feel angry

  115.  #115Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    lk — right on with you about measuring. i practice babystep healing my own habitual judgements of appearances

    whatsup with skype i req. u are you free to get on?

  116.  #116Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Iamabutterfly – i feel concerned hearing about your sexual boundaries and your suggestions to me about men

    its rather subtle and common but i think in my experience like Rori’s it means that you do have some hangups around sex for voluntarily choosing those boundaries

    i can see more now about whats going on as far as the guys you’re flirting with and how that wasn’t going anywhere and just stayin kinda superficial

    And i feel worried im just judging you to avoid looking at my own self

    maybei judge mysefl for being superficial for being open sexually

    aha yes i do

    being open sexually = superficial

    i want to shif this!


  117.  #117lk on March 15, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    @daria… oh i’m at work for another 2 hours : ) but i’ll get turn my comp on when i get home ! will you be available then ?

    i feel so excited : ) you can see CD maybe ? & his best friend ? maybe… i might hide from them because i’m not best friends with his best friend yet so i feel a little baby-ish : ) lol

  118.  #118Starla on March 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Daria, I feel a little concerned seeing this exchange with lamabutterly…it feels like an orange lecturing an apple for not being an orange.

  119.  #119Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    wow i feel really good!

    my sexual openess is sacred and healthy and BEAUTIFUL

    wow im feelin myself

    so glad i tapped

    still feeling kinda scared and judgmental for iamabuttefly. i feel sad when i think of her and her situation now

    i feel guilty for expressing that

    i want to heal this!

  120.  #120Starla on March 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    i actually feel a twinge of judgment for women who sleep with many men and who do it early in the courtship and who do it in places like the car instead of expecting to be taken to a clean, safe place to be romanced… i don’t believe it is sexual “openness and freedom,” but a desperate attempt to feel in control and enhance self esteem.

    especially when sometimes they feel bad afterwards, but keep doing it anyway, hoping one day they’ll feel “right”.

    and i think it is really scary and dangerous and feels just eeeeeeeeeek trying to say women should be one way or another about sex.

    and it feels so degrading to suggest that someone not engaging in sex makes them weird or something. it’s like as a society we’ve taken to demonizing the prude the way we spend centuries demonizing the sl*t.

    and i feel bad and pouty and i want to play on the beach but i live in a land-locked state:'(

  121.  #121Daria on March 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Starla – i feel really defensive to read that

    anyway i feel kinda judged

    i guess i feel scared it will look like an apple lecturing an orange for not being an apple

    and i dont want that

    i feel judged for being open sexually

    and when people talk aobut their not being open sexually i feel really insecure –

    i imagine theyre judging me, since they seem to be judging themselves

    and i feel shaky about myself, i often judge myself and im feeling triggered

    i feel angry that im not feeling SEEN

    i feel scared that my communication and expression is being judged and i will be attacked

    i feel guilty that my communication is – to my judgment – judgementy


    i feel angry

    i feel frustrated

    i feel shaky and vibraty

    i feel jumpy!

    i feel scared

    i feel tingly

    that feels like bieng tinly and numb cheeks

    i love my numb cheeks

    i love my tingles

  122.  #122Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    oh and also, it’s not to say my judgments are at all true…it’s just what i feel. kind of like if someone feels judgment for someone not engaging in sex, it doesn’t make their judgments or worries actually true!

  123.  #123Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    i think someone not engaging in sex makes them weird or something

    it makes them have hangups with sex

  124.  #124Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    this is a redflag for me with men

    it might not be a red flag all the time, depending on the way they express about it, but it is def a red flag

  125.  #125Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    I see daria. It’s like a majormegaprojection, of your fear that because they aren’t like you, it somehow will result in you being judged. awwwww that sounds awful to go through and feel:(. I’m sorry you feel that way daria…

    It reminds me of how ppl feel with me, because I don’t drink alcohol really, and then people think i’m judging them for getting tipsy/wasted, and i’m really not, and a lot of the times the drinkers cope with this by judging ME *first* as lame or whatever.

  126.  #126Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    i think thats what Rori is saying in the article too

    shes saying its a red flag for both men and women

  127.  #127Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    i think when we quit judging people so much, we’ll feel less judged all the time. it’s like the cheater who always thinks their partner is cheating, haha.

  128.  #128Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Brenda I would cdate for the experience. He might weed himself out anyway.

  129.  #129Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    i think some cultural inherited beliefs actually create hangups around sex this way

    i know i def have them. in my culture women dont expect to have orgasms often

    and boy did that reduce me and my friends experience of orgasms

  130.  #130Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    meaning that damn near a whole culture can share particular hangups about sex

    and the damn near everyone will have unhealthy relationships around sex

  131.  #131Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Daria, you’re right, she totally says that, and then she made the exception of in a spiritual context.

    I feel like no one actually read the article through today…

  132.  #132Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Am I the only one who clearly remembers Rori suggesting in Reconnect that while cdate we can choose to not have sex with any of these men to hedge our bets? I also clearly remember her saying she chose to live with a man but that is not the best option for a woman to choose for herself. Does anyone else remember that?

    I know they are recommendations but I just want to see if I am the only one who understood these things.

  133.  #133Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    FW, I remember that, and I am doing it:)

  134.  #134Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Starla, I read the article. And it registered that she said most of the times, and in her experience. That did not suggest to me that other people might have other experiences. I have written about a couple here who dated from age 17 and got married at 22/23 and they are happily gloriously still married now. They did not engage in sex before marriage and they are not the only couple I know that have had this experience. Like Iamabutterfly they have religious beliefs that helped them make and stick to those beliefs and practices.

  135.  #135Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    hmm feeling sad

    so glad i did that EFT and felt for a moment the sacredness of my OPEN sexuality, not just the sacredness of keeping it secret closed and hidden

    feelin shaky and kinda scared

  136.  #136lk on March 15, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    @starla… i feel curious… will you tell me more about how you imagine Out-Girling ? i don’t want to feel Competitive toward another human…. but i like the idea of focusing on myself…. what kinds of practices or tools do you use ? thank you : )

  137.  #137Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Daria, I have a hard time wrapping my head around what it is that you want when you come here saying to posters that you feel judgmental about them and then going through great lengths to say you don’t want to be judged and you feel like you’re being judged. To me it seems like banging your head on the wall for sport or thriving on drama. What am I not understanding here?

  138.  #138Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    most of the time, and in my experience too

  139.  #139Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    but wiht men enough experience to know that thats not something i feel good with in a man

  140.  #140Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    well, CF’s ex is on his facebook and she’s a professional model…and she was posting on his wall, “hey stranger…” and stuff like that, inviting him to things… so *i* leaned back and stopped liking stuff and commenting on his facebook wall. The more she leaned forward to him, the more *i* leaned back. and guess what? He decided her game was obvious and feels unsafe to even be her friend, lol.

  141.  #141Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Starla – whoa that feels bad

    what i hear is like its implied that im a less thorough attentive or something reader than you

    anyway i dont see where she says anything about exception to spiritual

    she says, she wants to be respectful but STILL THINKS THAT TAKING THOSE KINDA POSITIONS is usually an indication fo hangups around sex

  142.  #142Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    if i had leaned forward and tried to keep his attention or something, responding to my jealous trigger, then he would have been too distracted by us both to notice how yucky and turned off this girl made him feel. but i gave him space to notice (and to practice trusting him myself) and her enough rope and she hung herself.

  143.  #143Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Daria, it feels really hard and uninteresting to carry on a conversation too many turns when each turn starts out with “that feels bad,” “i feel judged,” “i feel defensive.” it feels incredibly one-sided.

    and i quit:)

    for now:)

  144.  #144Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Starla – wow that feels bad being asked that

    i feel really defensive

    i use this place to express myself about how i REALLY feel about what i experience and read

    what i want is to grow and heal by being more honest than i usually dare to be

  145.  #145Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Starla – wow that feels terrible. im feeling really upset and i dont like being talked to this way

    i dont want to be beat up and dismissed for expressing that this feels bad

    actually im feeling very angry

    our interactions this morning have felt terrible and im not interested in any more of that either

  146.  #146Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    wow i feel so MAD!



    why am i engaging with people who wnat to put me down ????

    i dont want to do that

    sorry Daria

  147.  #147Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    I also understood from Reconnect that part of growing was noticing your feelings and choosing to hang on to yourself by choosing a better feeling thought to change the vibe.

  148.  #148Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Starla I feel curious. Did he describe it as a game?

  149.  #149Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Im feeling so angry

    all thes NVS are coming up

    i cant trust women . they are so fake.

    i feel scared ill be attacked for HAVING these beliefs.

    i lvoe these beliefs. i feel safe with thes beliefs.

    i dont WANT to have these beliefs. they are really limiting me and not creating good stuff for me

    i feel so mad

    i feel like im being betrayed , made fun of, humilitaed, dismissed

    told that im unworhty

    that my feelings dont matter

    that i dont matter that

    i should be quiet

    that my expression is bad, that im bad that

    i dont deserve to be open

    i feel so mad

    so mad


    i feel like fighting

    i love my fighting feeling

    i want to disassociate

    i efel so angry in my lower chakra

    i feel furious

    i feel tight in my tummy

    i feel tight in my shoulder

    i feel tight in my face and my cheek

    oh no… how come since im transforming eveyrone praises me so much but no one seems to be good enough to get close to?

    i constantly feel betrayed

    and unsafe

    i feel so mad about this and lonely and mad at the world

    its not safe to trust people

    to respect and be there for me

    i feel sad

    i dont want to believe this anymore

    i feel so tight in my jaw and head

    i eel so tight in my buttocks

    i feel furious

    i love my furious ness

    wow i feeel so mad i feel shaky

    wow i want to beat that person !

    i feel so mad

    i feel so mad

    i feel so mad


    i love me

  150.  #150lk on March 15, 2012 at 2:35 pm


    i feel a little bad or iffy about one person & cd doesn’t seem to notice. it’s possible it’s My Thing… but i definitely have a boundary that i will share if it comes up, which is that i don’t want to spend Couple Time together with a couple who have an Unhealthy or Unhappy relationship. that ish is contagious ! & i don’t want someone trying to get their Man all riled up by flirting with mine o_0

    again, i can’t tell if that is really what is happening. so far, nothing has come close to crossing any lines with me – just really good practice for communicating & establishing our boundaries together.

    but…. i guess the really big one for me is when we are all in a group, she never makes eye contact with me. it feels so weird. she only looks at my Man or at her Man when she talks ? & we don’t really “click” but i don’t know if there is anything to be done about that.

    i feel like me Out-Girling could end up just looking anti-social ??

    eek i feel bad thinking that. it brings up the belief i have from childhood that i am Alien & Weird & Not Cool : ( (((((((((lk)))))))))

  151.  #151Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    i accept that i have a pull towards this battle, and im cretaing other rituals around myself now … mmmmmmm

    i love this tool i feel smmooothed

  152.  #152lk on March 15, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    also… this just gave me a “signal” – it’s not Bad or anything… lol – she invited me & cd over when her husband was out & she answered the door in a hooters tank top & kind of revealing tight orange sweats (like the girls wear) & it felt very Contrived to me… but she is my age (read: young) & so i believe she is just a little exhausted by new married life & that she feels thirsty for some extra attention & social energy. maybe i could give that to her in some way ? maybe i could invite her to meet some other women with me. that sounds like a pretty good idea. at least cd is magical & (though i feel pretty sure he didn’t notice her outfit or anything) he did mention that next time if her husband was out, he would just drop me off & pick me up, not stay. hmmmm…. i don’t know. i don’t feel too bad about it… but it feels interesting to “take care of” it Now rather than Later : )

  153.  #153Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    145, fw, he didn’t describe it verbatim as a game. he described it as a predictable ritual of hers (“innocently” popping over a period of time in to see how he’s doing) with the same result, “soooo are you seeing anyone?”

    Last time, the answer was YES:)

  154.  #154Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    lk, really really check in with yourself about the pull to take care of her needs. that is super masculine energy. this is my tendency with the women that make me feel jealous. I’ll try to ‘take care’ of them. I don’t know why i feel so compelled to do it, but it doesn’t help my insecure jealous feelings.

  155.  #155Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Thanks for sharing that Starla. I remember hearing that when a woman leans forward like that the man tend to in his mind put her in the “friend” category unconsciously even if he is not dating anyone else. It is one of the things that has helped me be comfortable with leaning back because I have done this kind of lean forward in the past. My only problem is when I am hung up on a man who is stubborn. Some have even told me that they are stubborn and will lean back and wait me out till I contact them.

  156.  #156Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 2:44 pm


    RE: #125 – Sounds like a good idea, thanks!

  157.  #157Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Brenda I am rooting for you. Though I had a sneaky feeling that you were in touch with Ryan because it has been a long time since your last downward spiral.

  158.  #158Starla on March 15, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    my recent roommate/good friend did (maybe unconsciously) solicit attention and validation from CF, and I just felt compelled to take care of her as a friend, but then I felt like her mommy and daddy with cf. i remember coming here posting about it and sirens encouraging me to knock this off, and i’m so glad i did. and cf was happy and friendly with her, and talked about interesting things with her that i didn’t know enough about to talk about with them, and it made me feel sooo jealous, but now that i look back on it i can see that he was just trying to impress ME by getting along with my friend so well.

    so when i outgirled her, she became even more masculine energy/in your face, and i could tell he stopped having much interest in her even as a conversational partner.

  159.  #159Senior Lady Vibe on March 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Hello, hello. No time to catch up and I lost a couple pages of yesterday’s posts… so.

    @Francesca.. glad your PC is all sorted out and updating

    @SMB… AKA Barb… I had something for you… gone now…

    @Brenda.. hey

    @Jilly and others. Yep, Courtney is a siren and hated by all the “also rans” who where not “immediately chosen” and announced to all the world they were “there for the Bachelor” while they hated that Courtney said she was there to look for love, have a good time and if Ben wasn’t “the one” there are other fish in the sea. A girl after my own heart….

    Lindzi wasn’t all that bad, she’s probably better suited for Ben. I don’t think he’s good enough for Courtney but maybe he’ll step up a little harder. His mother and sister seem to think Courtney is the one..



  160.  #160lk on March 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    friends with a couple – woman does not make eye contact when she talks to me

    siren solution:

    she is probably scared shxtless of me lol. i’m a smart, pretty fairy princess ! & also she probably feels jealous of how devoted CD is to me & how excited we are to be together : ) awww poor girl ! now i have accessed my compassion for her. the dear girl. ((((humans)))) ((((girl)))) & i HOPE that she does not feel afraid that she made a mistake by marrying her husband. i hope she is just getting her kicks & not truly frustrated & looking to change things by obliquely manipulating others. wow, lk. you sound mean. please check yourself before you wreck yourself ?

  161.  #161Daria on March 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    it feels really uncomfortable feeling angry… also im babystep better at stayin in my body through it

    opening my heart feels like melting and sadness

  162.  #162Starla on March 15, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    i’m surprised to read you saying you feel uncomfortable feeling angry, seems like you’re angry, or some cousin of it, like every day here. that seems to me like someone who is extremely comfortable feeling angry, lol.

    maybe you’re actually really really really comfortable with it and prefer it, and you’re uncomfortable with admitting to it to yourself

  163.  #163Starla on March 15, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    i wish i could find the link to tony robbins’ video on the “crazy 8,” you might find it insightful.

  164.  #164Starla on March 15, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    ah, found it, thanks google! http://robbinsmadanescoachtraining.com/?p=629

    she goes from depression to anger and it’s not an exact fit in terms of context, but the overall message might feel relevant and helpful.

  165.  #165lk on March 15, 2012 at 3:06 pm


    actually i can totally place all the things you are saying. thank you. i feel much more opened-up about it : )

    & @Femininewoman thank you too : ))) & hi !

  166.  #166Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Woah… ouch.

    I am feeling little icky again tonight!

    In the soup once again.

    Am Ok really though.

    Feeling a bit hopeless about MWC and confused about whether I am respecting my boundaries or not…

    I have not been back to his house or stayed the night since Sunday morning when I left after the drinking issue… when normally I would have spent some evenings with him and stayed the night.

    I said no to that last night, Because it did not feel right.

    But I did go on a coffee date with him for a couple of hours in the afternoon. Which felt ok to me to do… but then I am asking myself is that being weak and having holes in my boundaries?

    Is it defeating the whole point because he is still getting to see me, although not as much?

    I didn’t do it cus I was worried about not seeing him… I did it cus I wanted to and it felt ok at the time…

    But now I am questioning myself.

    And we have been in phone and e-mail contact.

    He helped me fix and issue with my website today.

    I decided to send him a sexy pic of me.

    I have never sent this kind of picture to a man before. I wanted to do it… it felt right.

    But now I am feeling vulnerable.

    It was not really dirty or anything… just suggestive.

    I’ve had a bunch of the pics for years and love them and have never really been brave enough to share them with a man.

    The thought kept popping into my head to send it… and it felt good… plus I thought it would be good practice, so I sent it.

    And his reaction was good, like all gushy and complimentary…

    Mostly I have been leaned way back… and he has been leaning right forward.

    And yet since I sent the pic I feel funny and have not heard from him (since his initial reply).

    Maybe just my issue.

  167.  #167LobbyStar on March 15, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Checking in. How are y’all?

    I first came to this site last year to attempt getting over a guy, who I’ll call Wolfie. I CD’d for about six months, up until my mom died, and my interest in dating dried up.

    Literally the day before my mom collapsed, I texted Wolfie and invited him back into my life as a friend. And when my mom passed, he was there for me. I have to tell you, I have such strong masculine energy that it was very, VERY difficult for me to allow others to help me through that time.

    But I let Wolfie do things for me. He changed the locks on my house. He ran cable to rooms that previously didn’t have it. He washed my dishes (!). He took out the trash. He fixed my bike. He said he loved being my hero. And I don’t know if it means anything, but whenever we go out to eat together, even though we are “just friends,” he always pays. And he calls or texts to check on me when he knows I’m feeling down.

    This is way better than when we dated. And I think it’s because of the masculine energy I was exuding back then. I was a buddy, a dude with boobs. Now I seem more vulnerable and soft. Maybe there’s a chance for us, down the road.

  168.  #168Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    And CD-ing wise.


    Nothing really gwaning…

    But then I don’t really do anything except work atm… and POF seems to have dried up.

    I got asked out at work the other day, and the guy was CUTE, however all the staff were around and I felt too exposed and MWC would have heard and it just didn’t feel right to I did not accept.


    There is still one guy texting me… and I just feel like yawn about getting back to him cus of his lack of stepping up and asking me to come to him… just made me feel bored and turned off.

    So I have taken ages to reply.

    but I will, jusy for the sake of CD-ing.

  169.  #169Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    And just feel hopeless that MWC could sort himself out… cus he doesn’t even take care of himself by eating properly, I don’t see how he can overcome addiction issues (if that is what he has).

    But hey. this is so NOT my business.

    And he has run out of money this month… and we are only half way through the month, and that feels bad, cus how can he take care of me??

    Wha wha wha… baby selfish me.

    But you know what is bad… is that I feel a lil offy cus he spend most of his money on me!!! Buying me stuff.

    And now he doesn’t seem to have enough money for food


    I have let him know I feel just as happy with free dates.

    And the urge to step in and ‘fix’ this and over function is strong!

    I hate the thought of him suffering and not eating properly.

    But heck who am I… not his Mum GD it!

    And lean back. LEAN BACK ELLA!

    And I worry that all this will mean he won’t heal.

    But again not my business.

    Wow, I feel all tied in to this.

    Wondering how to untie myself and feelings from this/him.

    Know I can… know I can bring the focus back to me.. I’ve done it millions of times before.

    But Humph.

  170.  #170LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Hi Sirens:

    Wow, this really looks like a great post by Rori! I will have to read it when I get home. Just wanted to spam the blog with my random thoughts before they leave my mind:

    Had such a Diva day today. I honestly felt like Erica Kane from “All My Children.” Yes, I was just that dramatic. I recognize I need some healing to do, but the first step was realizing that it was me doing all that drama and I have to love me and feel what I’m feeling, even if it’s is not positive. I feel relieved now.

  171.  #171Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    In other news.

    I am ok.

    Probably better than I sound on blog…

    And feeling a little selfish recently as I have just been coming on here and venting and not really getting involved or giving any input to other Sirens recently.

    I still love you all… just been going through a needy, self focused patch.

    Thanks for bearing with me.


  172.  #172Starla on March 15, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Ella, I know it feels crazy uncomfortable scary, but i think you should have accepted that guy’s date offer. it sucks that in a way you have to exercise exclusivity with MWC, for appearances to your mutual acquaintances or whatever. How do you feel about it?

  173.  #173LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    News Blast:

    I’m not in a rush to get married any more. I like having 3-4 to date. I feel judgmental about this, but I accept it. I feel guilty about it, but I accept that feeling too. I accept my feelings and all my NVs and I’m going to get into my soup of emotions and feel them all, and I’m going to keep CDing all these guys until I feel to do something different – love to me, Love me Always first

  174.  #174LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Each day this week, before I leave my office, I put myself in a siren state of mind – it keeps me in touch with my feelings. I haven’t called CD oil back in a few days, but I was not attracted to him though he was nice enough. My lesson from him was that I still enjoy attention from men I’m not involved with. I enjoy attention that does not have to be dinner, but could be over coffee. But the lesson was also that men will be smitten with me, and I need to learn how to handle that authentically.

  175.  #175Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Now I feel silly for sending that pic.

    Oh well… if a man can’t deal with a sexy pic of me… he can go feck himself.

    Oh, interesting, anger!


    Wonder what that is about?

    Wonder what is underneath?

    Doesn’t feel like there is anything underneath.

    Just feel tight hearted.

  176.  #176Ella on March 15, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Starla re 169

    Yes I have been thinking the same too.

    And when it came to it I just couldn’t do it.

    I feel weird/conflicted about it.

    On the one hand believing I should/could accept dates anyway, and on the otherhand I would feel to mean/uncomfortable doing right there under MWCs nose.

    I have since thought to myself I should have accepted.

    As it was I did not say no exactly. Just kinda giggled, flicked my hair and walked away.

    I still smiled at him loads but he did not ask again.

    Apparently this guy is shy…. and his friend was encouraging him to ask me out.

    I dunno, maybe if he comes back again…

    But he wasn’t especially step up.

    And that is the difference, and the reason I am dating him and not a host of other men…

    Oh, I also feel hella scared of being judged and outcast by other members of staff if I did accept a date from another man at work…

  177.  #177Starla on March 15, 2012 at 3:41 pm


  178.  #178Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Am feeling grouchy.

    Have not heard from MWC… which is very unusual.


    F8ck it.

    Maybe have a shower…


    Starla??? What do I do?

  179.  #179Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Ok… message on POF.

    Here I go. CD-ing again.


  180.  #180Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Still not getting Rori’s e-mail…

    I miss them.


  181.  #181Luzydel on March 15, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    I like the idea of holding sex right now; not until marriage though. But I am liking the attention I am getting without giving so much emphasis as to with whom and or when I should have sex. I have no issues about it, I just don’t think it should be that important, it happens when it happens. I am just having fun going out on my own sometimes and drawing, and or with a guy who ask me out.

    Lately I am getting a lot of attention even from women; I feel acknowledged. I am thinking this is because of dating myself and giving me what I need. I guess I should not expect from others what I cannot give to myself first. Have another meeting tomorrow, guys seem a bit intense (but I can handle it).

  182.  #182Butterfly wings on March 15, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    13 Tiffany – that’s my thinking too. The test was negative again this morning but will wait at least a few days to test again just to be sure. Especially because I’m still bloated.

  183.  #183Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Oh for goodness sake.

    I am exactly like a Crack addict craving for my fix.

    I am judging myself as pathetic.

    Trying to get myself to CD on POF and feeling MASSIVE resistance.

    And I have thought about another CD with Super Nice Guy from before.

    But… Noooo, I don’t wanna (little girl whiny voice).

    Do I have to??

    Awwww, but I don’t like him!

    :-/ Pouty face.

    Come on Ella, this man is nice.. he is good practice. healthy, no addictions. etc etc.

    Yeah but I don’t wanna.

    And the thought of letting him kiss me is like ewwww! Keep your stupid, nasty, boring mouth away from me freak!


    Where does this all come from??

    Feeling so judgemental of him and his boringness…

    And that must mean I am judging me and my boringness?

    I do feel bored right now.

    Have been working so hard and my little girl wants to have fun.

    But I don’t know how to take care of that for her??

    I have no money and have been working to improve my situation.

    And now that I am not drinking.

    I feel lost!

    I don’t know how to have fun and go for a night out without drinking!!!

    Oh Dear Ella.

    Its not true…

    I do have fun… just unsure how to do this.

    And take care of me.

    I am craving some fun and lightness and change of scene.

  184.  #184Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:50 pm


    Feeling pist.

    Feeling grouchy.

    Being like an addict.

    Wondering why MWC has not been in touch tonight… and then feeling very vulnerable, especially after sending that pic.

    Ho hum.

    This must be how he feels when he texts me that he loves me and I don’t reply till the next day or something.

    But who cares about him.

    Its about ME, ME, ME.

    Lol Ella.

    Love You.

    Lets have some 85% cocoa chocolate.


  185.  #185Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Hi Lobbystar, welcome back. Sorry about your loss.

  186.  #186Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Ok, feeling scared and alone.

  187.  #187Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Hi lk

  188.  #188Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Lobbystar re 164

    That is cool about Wolfie.

    And I too am sorry about losing your Mum.

  189.  #189Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Ella for some reason I feel triggered by the “who cares about him”. I felt my warrior woman raise her head when I read that comment like I want to defend him.

  190.  #190FlowerChild77 on March 15, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    Sometimes the nice guys feel ‘boring’ to us because we are so used to the roller coaster pattern of our past relationships :-/

  191.  #191Ella on March 15, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    I don’t think I am going to go to his tomorrow night… earlier I said I would.

    But I don’t think I will now because I feel disconnected and uncomfortable about the whole situation now.

    I feel like I am over functioning and I don’t want that.

    I feel like I am not quite on my horse, but she is nearby.

    I want to find her again.

  192.  #192Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    FW I do care about him really.

    Just trying to get the focus off him and back on to me…. and be selfish, to pull back from my urges to over function.

    I feel defensive of him too, even as I was writing it… and I still wanted to write it anyway, to remind myself that I am my no 1 priority.

  193.  #193FlowerChild77 on March 15, 2012 at 5:05 pm


  194.  #194Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Flowerchild yes I know…. this is a re-occuring issue for me…

    And I have not yet learned how to get past them feeling boring.

    I get to a point and I literally can’t take anymore.

    I want to get far away from them or punch them in the face.

    Wow, I feel broken sometimes.

  195.  #195Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 5:08 pm


    RE 191 I suspect it is the comfort in the feeling of familiarity. We want to get away to get back to what we are used to , to what we know, the excitement, the chemistry.

  196.  #196Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    “I trust my boundaries – I trust myself: I know I will not knowingly toss my pearls before swine, throw myself into the path of destruction, hide from the truth, go along with or tolerate something that is damaging to me. Now I can move to my feelings.”

    Hmmm. I am not too sure I am trusting my boundaries enough.

    Think I might be hiding from the truth a bit and also maybe tolerating something that could be damaging to me.

    That is no good.

    Think I might need a lot more time/space.

    Feeling icky.

    Maybe need to slow down.


  197.  #197Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    I am talking to a guy on POF but goodness me I feel so flat and passionless.

  198.  #198Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Owww, now getting to practice discussing why I am not drinking, within the firs few sentences…

    How interesting that he brought up alcohol straight away!

  199.  #199Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    FW yes I expect so!

    How are you?

    I feel very bored of talking about me! Lol.

    What’s happening in your world?

  200.  #200Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    “I don’t want to go there; do that, see that, feel this, feel that, listen to this, be there, be here, stand here, tolerate this, have this, worry about this, think about this, take charge of this, plan this — what do you think?”

    Yes… I can use these.

  201.  #201LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    I’m talking to CDdj and he is reminding me how hot we were as a couple, that we were in love, that we loved each other and we have always kept together although apart . . . heart beat heart beat heart beat

  202.  #202Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    How do *I* feel?

    A bit lost.

    A bit tired.

    Achy knees.

    A bit lonely. frustrated and hopeless.

    A bit positive and hopeful.

    Lovng of myself.

    A bit pissy.

    A bit GRRRR at life.

    A bit like a sulk child (or is that a judgement??) wanting to demand why life is not giving me exactly what I want!

    Feeling demanding and indignant.

    Feeling indignant and rightous!

    Feeling angry… and underneath that.

    Feeling scared and alone.

    And ugly.


    Not sure why in the soup tonight.

    Love me though.

    Love to me.

    Big loving arms all around my soupy me!

    I will be ok with all my soupy feelings.

  203.  #203LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    I’m so glad I’m CDing him . . . it keeps me balanced cuz he is sooooooo real

  204.  #204lk on March 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm


  205.  #205LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm


  206.  #206LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    going through my emotions

  207.  #207Ella on March 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Oh, I am so just gonna stick with how *I* feel.

    Like ‘MWC I just don’t feel good to go with you right now’.

    I really don’t want to atm.

    I can’t believe I was thinking it was ok to go to his house and hang out again so soon.

    I feel annoyed with myself!

    Like where he hell was my boundary then??

    Sometimes I feel so confused and I suppose that is all part of this stuff.

  208.  #208LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:44 pm


  209.  #209Daria on March 15, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Ugh I feel so mad! I’m gripping and throbbing in my thigh. I want to write about my anger about one guy… Well I think he doesn’t respect my time. Or I feel angry about today

    Then I remember how I felt angry on the blog first and now I feel super mad

    And my people’s are fighting all in the house today and I feel angry sad tense

    I woke up from my nap that I took cuz I woke up this morning both times from them fighting

    Ugh I feel mad

    And I feel mad this guy hasn’t told me what time he’s coming to bring my phone – I feel all off balance and panicky and I feel like my time is not respected

  210.  #210Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    I had a pretty bad day.

    I was thinking a lot about ATW. And everything made me think of him…

    As I was in a good mood in the morning, and because he said I can call him sometimes, I just sent a cute “Good morning”… and I ended up asking if he wanted to go for lunch… and he said he had a meeting at lunch time so he couldn’t. So I got into an @rgy of leaning forward. It was terrible. We talked about next time we could meet and he didn’t know. I told him I felt sad and disappointed. He said please don’t. He called me after his meeting. I said it looks he can make plans with me because he is waiting to see if he can have better plan. I know it’s very blamey. Just was out of my mind. Couldn’t think… He said again his annoying “soon”.

    He texted me two minutes after explaining that if he couldn’t confirm a day because he is actually taken on Friday but he’s gonna see if he can cancel his plans. I said I felt silly for insisting but it feels very nice of him. He said he would let me know as soon as possible…

    …but he haven’t text me yet…

    I know I’m in a very bad situation now. I have to lean super way back. And I can’t really make plans for tomorrow because if he cancels his plans and I’m not available for him, I’m gonna look like playing game…

    Wow Lizka you really messed up…

    I guess I have to love my messing up…

  211.  #211Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    And ModelCD asked me to come watch movies at his place with him tonight. So I was happy to have a date tonight to help me leaning back with ATW.

    Later I told him I just came back from jogging he said “you must be hungry, I’ll feed you 🙂 ”

    He called me at 7.40 saying he would pick me 30 minutes later.

    It’s now 9 and he still isn’t here! Heuuuuuuu????

    Wow that feels terribly bad. I don’t want to go out at 9 o’clock on weeks day.

    Really not my day.

  212.  #212LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    Now CDdj is reminding me of all of my old boyfriends, pointing out how well he are I were meant for each other

  213.  #213Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    And now I feel terribly hungry so I’m going to feed myself. I feel kind of mad at ModelCD for making me wait. I’m not gonna go with him tonight definitely. Will eat and go to bed. Have to take care of me…

  214.  #214LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 6:01 pm


  215.  #215LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    This man is certainly worthy of a movie date!!!

  216.  #216LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    You can hit the note, but can you hold it?

  217.  #217Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 6:08 pm


    “This man is certainly worthy of a movie date!!!”

    Was that for me? o_O

  218.  #218lk on March 15, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    this is SO weird. i just got the notification from live strong dot com telling me i’d just committed to lose weight ? so i went to look…. & the email was from over a year ago. i totally forgot i ever signed up !

    my “dares” (you can do “dares” on live strong & get support on blogs & track your daily progress…) were:

    lose weight
    quit smoking
    drink less alcohol
    sleep more
    stretch daily

    well…… when i made those goals, i know they felt a little impossible… & i kind of “blew myself off” & felt bad about myself for how far i was from those goals… & now !!!!!!

    NOW !!! well, now i am in my goal weight range, i don’t smoke, i drink at my goal pace, i sleep more regularly…& i spend more time in bed : ) lol, & i stretch much more frequently : )))))

    & summer is coming, so i plan to easily slide the last couple lbs off & focus on settling my sleep cycle & morning routine in a peaceful flow that includes stretching : ))))))) happy lk, good girl, keep trying : )

  219.  #219LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    He is reminding me how close we are

  220.  #220Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    Hi Sirens!!!! C called and paid my credit card off for me, just over 5 grand, ahhhhh….. I still can’t believe it! I could cry, and have a few times today. No more interest, no more worry, no dread or sick feelings about all that money going down the drain. My credit will improve, and I’ll be able to get a car loan when the time comes. FW, I used your line today and when I said thank you, I told him he was my own personal hero. 🙂 He liked it! He was really glad to fix it for me, and I’m so glad I didn’t turn him down because of my pride.

    I really can’t believe all the wonderful things that are happening in my life, and pretty much all because of him. I want him back so badly…. but if that doesn’t happen, I’ll still love all he’s done for me, and be eternally grateful. He’s changing my life.

    I dropped a whole van load of stuff at Goodwill last night and put a ton of trash at the curb… can’t wait to finish the garage, I feel more free already. I’m running out of excuses to hold myself back…. and it’s scary and exciting and I feel afraid to make mistakes, but tingly and giggly and kinda sparkly thinking about what is ahead of me!!!

    Some of Turquoise’s Dreams……

    To write children’s books and have them published!

    To get my candy business off the ground and help people celebrate the special moments and occassions in their lives.

    To have the time, energy and funds available to travel, with my girls, with friends… and with a lover.

    To have my home feel open, warm, welcoming to friends, family, neighbors…. and for me to have gotten rid of all the clutter taking up precious space in my home. My house is huge, lots of space, but the stuff in the garage, shoved in closets and under beds drains my energy.

    To feel fabulous about my shape and body and to feel healthy, energized, and be a positive example of how to treat my body like a temple. To reach my goal weight and go shopping for a siren’s wardrobe!!!!

  221.  #221Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    Hmmm ModelCD just called. 30 minutes become a.5 hour… I said I’m not going out it’s too late. He said let’s go for a quick drink close to your place. I don’t really feel like it but he’s usually very nice and I need to do something not to think of ATW so I’ll go… but REALLY not late! I want to take care of me and sleep early.


  222.  #222Daria on March 15, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Wow really? I feel anger and express it everyday on here and that means I’m really comfortable with it?

    Even if I said I feel uncomfortable?

    I feel like punching u in your face and calling u names and screaming. It feels terribly unconfortable feeling that way

    Even if I feel it everyday or more like several times a day.
    It seems you’re really out to snark me today so I feel like saying fuchk off but Instead I am practicing what one voice sarcastically calls ‘being nice’

    I am holding this awful feeling in my chest while you keep on making fun of me.

    It feels terrible and I feel tight in my tummy

    What the fuchk is everyone’s problem with me expressing anger everyday? Isn’t that what the blog is for?

    Quit picking on me. Okthey pick on me again and I’ll beat their ass or be mean to them. This always works in the moment.

    However I’m practicing not doing that.

    I feel humiliated to be put in this position.

    I judge myself as weak for not using my weapons.

    They still come out a bit and that’s enough to spark more attacks. The wise thing would be to attack them and make them go away off my territory.

    I am so strong. No one can do that like me.

    Well those who can and are doing it my life wow that feels terrible.

    I just want peace.

    I don’t want to be harassed on the blog and made fun of

    I feel so mad.

    Squeeze in my buttock.

    Sigh. Cycle again. Everytime I think about it I feel mad.

    I feel a squeeze or a tightening or something.

    I feel so helpless!

    I feel totally uncomfortable feeling that way.

    Like the picked on kid in the parking lot.

    I’d rather destroy than feel humiliated sometimes.

    Maybe the key is to be ok with feeling humiliated.

    I feel humiliated

    I feel humiliated

    I feel humiated

    I feel sick and icky face just thinking that word

    I don’t want to tell people I feel humiliated

    They’ll say – its your fault for letting them make you feel that way

    Or it’s your fault for letting them take advantage of you

    Or no one can make you feel inferior without your consent



    Hmm so I can choose to feel good about myself while feeling humiliated.

    I feel twisty tummy.

    I’m not getting anywhere with this.


    Still not processing anger well maybe.

    It’s supposed to instantly morph

    But instead I get hooked on the mind loops that stab me again and again e triggering thought.

    I love my mind loops.

    They want to ensure I treat myself well.

    Well I can totally ignore the person triggering me.

    However that’s felt bad too like old best friend I don’t talk to no more.

    I feel overwhelmed. I feel so mad. I feel so mad.

    I feel so powerless.

    I don’t want to be treated this way.

    It’s ok for me to feel powerfully mad.

    This is great!

    I’m healthy!

    I feel very very mad when I’m not treated well.

    Yay me 🙂

    Ok feelin better, off to read about Ella.

    Ouch squeeze in heart, thought about someone else and felt angry again

    Actually I feel sad and heartbroken and lonely about it under the anger,

    And that feels too vulnerable.

    I made a vow not to be vulnerable.

    Not to show my ‘hurt’ to those who betray or pit me down and laugh at me .

    I feel squeezed around the inside of my thigh and in my tummy.

    I want to heal this vow.

    How can I honor that I feel terribly sad to feel like im being judged and attacked.

    I feel so dissapointed in god for bringing me friends I dont feel safe with. And parents I don’t feel safe with and men I don’t feel safe with.

    And I feel guilty for writing that and not instead writing how grateful I am for the non abusive stuff.

    But in my life it seems like I wind up abused. My parents hit me My friends have hit me or betrayed me or put me down .

    I think it will literally be impossible to have a non abusive relationship w a human being.

    And that feels bad.

    I want to shift that belief.

    I feel so sad.

    I feel so uncomfortable saying that.

    I know no one cares. And I’m tightened up around it.
    No one Ever cared that I was sad while they were in the middle of beating or humiliating me.

    Feeling the loss of that.

    Feeling rage.

    I feel this rage now.

    I feel broken hearted. And I feel rage for feeling broken hearted.

  223.  #223Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Oh no LoveAlways, forgot my last post to you. Just realise it’s not. 🙂

  224.  #224Daria on March 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Lizka – I’d say do t go . Please. U just said ur def not going. Honoring that will really boost your feelings about yourself.

    That’s what I would tell myself.

  225.  #225Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Wow Turquoise I feel excited reading your comments. You are unstoppable.

  226.  #226Daria on March 15, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I feel mad at the world and I don’t want any of you around cuz ur probably going to abuse me anyway. My god my kids probably won’t stand me and leave me lonely like 90. % of the world. Fuchk this life and world. I feel so mad at it.

    I want to heal my pull towards this battle.

    This stuff is not true Daria I really love you. Fuchk anyone who you feel mad at and I can give you a hug and love you anytime. Actually don’t even say fuchkrd cuz ur beautiful loving self wants connection. So just remember none of the bad feeling stuff is true. I love you and it’s all good.

  227.  #227Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I know Daria. But I also have a feeling that if I stay home alone I’ll just be depressing about ATW…

    He’s on his way here, maybe we’ll just smoke a cig and I’ll kick him out…

  228.  #228sensual on March 15, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Still haven’t heard from any of my CDs… that’s pretty amazing, i had about 5 a week ago, i’m so quick to rave about it and feel all good about it and then pooof they all vanish. 🙁 . Same problem, i still can’t get passed the 3/4 week stage with anyone 🙁

  229.  #229Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Thanks FW!!!!! I feel really motivated right now, so pushing myself to ride that wave. I know myself, I am SUCH a procrastinator…. BUT, I am healing that and that feels amazing!!!!

    Yeah me, I’m a rockstar…. I love me and this is my time to shine!!! Hugs to me! I don’t know if any of you have had “issues” hanging over you for years, but I have had clutter, weight issues and financial issues for YEARS!

    Now, I have a new house and only a little clutter, I am paying no interest (still have debt, but now it’s a personal loan with no interest and a plan to have it paid off with low monthly payments that I can afford, so no stress there) and I am ready to get this weight off for good. I can’t believe it, I don’t think I believed I’d ever get to this place. By summer, all my “issues” will be completely under control. I feel like holding my breath, nervous energy that has me bounding all around the house getting stuff done, and motivated to change these things for me, just for me…. to let my inner siren glow! 😉

  230.  #230sensual on March 15, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    i had nothing to do last night so i went to some awful fashion show downtown with a friend and guess what, i saw one of my CD’s there. the one who was texting me soooo much while I was away only to not ask me out on my return (just sends irrelevant texts all week) and then i saw him at a little party last Friday and he sent me apology texts the next day for not having caught up with me, said he’d been sick all week and stupidly got dragged out late Friday night. but that he really wanted to catch up with me. Well then i don’t hear from him for days and then he’s at some goddam awful fashion thing ( he works for Sony so nothing to do with his work why he’d be there). I felt so angry I couldn’t bring myself to say hello and he either didn’t see me or pretended not to see me. so we didn’t even say hello! like you’re 40 years old and you were really into me 1 week ago! where are your priorities!! i guess that one’s hit the dust then. 🙁

  231.  #231Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 6:44 pm


    Go have a good time! 😉 Sometimes it’s great to have a change of scenery and it is enough to make you feel all better!

    I don’t like that he was late, but that probably isn’t a deal breaker, just a boundry you’ll have to strongly share with him! 🙂

    HUGS!!!! Have something fun and fruity for me 🙂 I’m partial to blue drinks, lol.

  232.  #232LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    he said I’m beautiful on the inside extraordinarily beautiful on the inside!!!

  233.  #233LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    I’m a sucker for words, lovely beautiful words

  234.  #234LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Hi Lizka

    # 214

    Lol!! No, I’m spamming the blog while I’m talking to CDdj, and our last date was out to a movie 🙂

  235.  #235Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Wow, what a moving story about being vulnerable with CF and thank-you so very much for sharing the youtube link on Ganesh….i loved it and meditateid to it for an hour.

  236.  #236Jessie1000 on March 15, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    wow daria…i wish I could get mad like that….i feel so passive all the time like my emotions are shut off in my head sometimes….i have extreme energy for doing things but little for just sitting and resting and feeling….my kids father called me every name in the book cause he was having a temper tantrum because when i sent my son to his house….he lives a happy 18 hours drive…he didnt get the clothes he liked for zee…like its my job to provide them? He literally sent 155 texts calling me a whore and every bad name in the book…f. off and suck my…. and wow, he literally threw every insult in the book at me…over two outfits of clothes….it kind of made me laugh cause i was so happy to be away from him but i couldnt get mad….i wanted to say something back but I just said i feel uncomfortable with your abusive words and im shutting my phone off…go text urself. and after about 30 more ur a loser and i should have stuck my ….in a cow….the psycho left me alone….but inside i didnt feel rage or nothing. Im bewildered that he speaks or talks to anyone like that never mind me who has his son every single day…he doesnt pay child support …i told him not to so I could move away from him and take zee so its not like he has to pay alot of money out or something…he is such a wierdo and i was scared for my little son who is only 5 cause who was watching him when he was writing all this stuff….my son says he yells really loud too but is still nice to my son and takes him nice places when he has him….it is so wierd, first his rage and my lack of feeling…
    any help girls? Am I abnormal or normal?
    Am I repressing feelings and secretly deep down I would like to scream and yell but im not in touch? Am I over him so it doesnt matter?
    I wish I could be mad like Daria today because feeling nothing is how I always feel….not good, not bad, just nothing….usually try to look very smiley and attentive but no really large range of emotions other than I feel peace at night when i am in bed and my kids are safe in bed and asleep….

  237.  #237Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 7:13 pm


    RE: #154 – “Brenda I am rooting for you. Though I had a sneaky feeling that you were in touch with Ryan because it has been a long time since your last downward spiral.”

    No, it has not been a long time since my last downward spiral. I have been falling apart since the middle of February, working toward healing. This is no small heartache. My contact with Ryan was for the purpose of healing, not trying to reconnect.

  238.  #238LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    CDdj wants to talk about my other CDs and what’s going on, kind of like a “big brother” but there’s more under the surface.

  239.  #239LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Congrats Turquoise!! That really feels great to hear someone receiving something blessed happening to a siren!!!

  240.  #240LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    (((((((Lizka))))))) I just read about your day

  241.  #241Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    hi sirens
    i just caught up on today’s blog. i hope youfeel better daria that you got some of your anger out….

    turquoise you sound great….you go girl!

    i went on a date with another CD this am. i was not feeling all that great, my son got a fever in the middle of the night and it was a 9 am coffee date and I woke up at 8:30. I didn’t feel all that great and then i had the fever this afternoon. He looked way older than his pics on match, but at least he had all his hair. lol
    he was nice to talk to…accountantCD was jealous, since he knew i was going on a date, he saw us and he texted me after….
    i feel really angry at accountantCD, he told me yesterday how special i was to him and he just wasn’t ready to leave his gf, even though it was not good.
    so i am doing the letting it go ritual again…..that will feel better than feeling frustrated and horny…..
    it feels better to honor myself….so i went online and checked prices on bizrate.com and found myself some new sheets and a comforter that is new…..to replace the comforter i had when i was married, to get some new energy into the bedroom……and i got my son new sheets and drapes, all for 70 dollars and free shipping….NEW energy on my bed, energy of being in the vortex and receiving love….hooray…
    tomorrow i am not teaching, since i had a 103 fever at 2, but it’s totally gone, so i think i am going to drive to my favorite cove on the lake and pretend i know how to do watercolors and try to paint the cottonwood trunks, all knarled and thick bark and all and listen to the water lap the shores…..a day of hooky….the teacher gets to play…..

  242.  #242LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    This man’s heart is so sweet

  243.  #243Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 7:35 pm


    RE: #217 – “Some of Turquoise’s Dreams……

    To write children’s books and have them published!

    To have the time, energy and funds available to travel, with my girls, with friends… and with a lover.

    To have my home feel open, warm, welcoming to friends, family, neighbors…. and for me to have gotten rid of all the clutter taking up precious space in my home. My house is huge, lots of space, but the stuff in the garage, shoved in closets and under beds drains my energy.

    To feel fabulous about my shape and body and to feel healthy, energized, and be a positive example of how to treat my body like a temple. To reach my goal weight and go shopping for a siren’s wardrobe!!!!”

    My same dreams!

    So happy for you having your credit card paid off!!

  244.  #244LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    I’m loving this body of mine, with all it’s flaws and imperfections

    100% woman

  245.  #245Daria on March 15, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Lizka – dang… yeah it always SEEMS awful to just sit at home and pine and refuse a guy… but it feels SO GOOD actually afterward and the better treatment comes practically immediately after holding boundaries

    its way worth it

    and ive seen u bend your boundaries repeatedly with these guys so as soon as you hold em yu will see how you start feeling stronger and better treatment shows up

  246.  #246Daria on March 15, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Turqoise – i think its a really bad idea to get with this guy who used to hit you. 5000 dollar credit card seems big but its really not That big.

    i feel sad that you are so into this guy but he HIT you.

    like more than once

    and i feel like all weirded out that everyone on this blog seems to be unconcerned about that and talking about what a great guy he is

    this guy does Not sound so great at all. He sounds like an ABUSER!

  247.  #247Daria on March 15, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    I feel kinda dumbfounded on this issue actually.

    like are they really supporting and encouraging this woman to go back with an abusive man? and saying how great this is?

    where and what women’s circle does this happen…


  248.  #248LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    CDdj just called my CDing “escapades” LOL!!

  249.  #249Daria on March 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Thanks Healing Waterfall

  250.  #250Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Thank you for the concern Daria, but people do change (we all believe that or why are we here? Or can only addicts change in your opinion?), and that was over 4 years ago, and before that it had been over 3 years during the end of our marriage. Things were bad then, really bad…. but we aren’t like that anymore. I’m not excusing what happened, but I do believe it won’t happen again. You obviously aren’t closely reading my posts, because we aren’t together. We aren’t dating, we aren’t a couple, he’s helping me for who knows what reason, and I’m learning to receive.

  251.  #251LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    Leaning back listening to him, letting him give, and I’m receiving and this is lovely

  252.  #252Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    And not to downplay getting hit, because that really did suck the couple times it happened…. but it wasn’t like in the movies or on TV where dinner wasn’t on the table, or he didn’t like what I served. We had some big arguments where we both crossed a line. I haven’t forgotten it, but I really do believe it wouldn’t happen again or I wouldn’t even consider going back to that relationship.

    And this is more than a 5000 credit card. He’s done a lot for me in the last 9 months, more than any man I know of has done for his ex wife.

  253.  #253Daria on March 15, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    yay taking care of me

    so this guy INSISTED he take me to breakfast

    then hes like oh hell be there at 230 and me call him at 2 (cuz i left my phone in his car last nite by accident)

    then i called him and at like 3 hes like oh im at my kis school

    and then heslike well have to make it dinner on text

    and im like umk what time

    no answer

    i caleld at 5 and no answer

    i called at 7 no answer and i left a vm

    ok so NOW i actually napped all day so its all good… but i DONT WANNA WAIT

    s u know what

    i broguth out my other phone and switched my service


    I FELT SO MAD THAT HE DIDNT SEEM TO RESPECT MY TIME IN THIS WAY (he coulda let me know BEFORE 2 he wasnt coming, and gave me a plan for later if he wanted to do that)

    so now im like YES for taking care of me and /NOT waiting, not a lil bit

    yeah me

    oh wow this way feels so much better and stronger

    i do want my oldschool phone back, but if i never see it again… welll

    i am back on!

  254.  #254Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Turquoise I believe that every coach I have heard have said that people change. Plus we see that in real life when people want to change themselves they do. I remember CCarter saying “don’t be afraid to lose a man. Be afraid that he won’t change”. A quote I have been meaning to share with Lilibee. If I can change to the point where sometimes my son tells me I am fake because he is experiencing me as so new then anyone can change.

  255.  #255Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Daria and Turq,

    RE: #242 – I never knew he abused her. This is news to me.

  256.  #256Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    I didn’t know he hit you either. But i do also believe that sometimes when things are really bad, bad things happen that won’t happen again.

    and fw, i really like that quote about ccarter. being afraid that a guy won’t change instead of being afraid of losing a guy….
    i feel that is where i am now with accountantCd…i am not afraid of losing him now, since this is not where i want to be, BUT i am afraid that he won’t change and i will have this huge void, since he has been stepping up in lots of little ways in the last few days, but not being in open relationship…
    thanks 🙂
    and my new CD, naropaCD emailed me and wants to take me geocaching….

  257.  #257LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    He loves my sense of freedom – wow, never knew he noticed

  258.  #258Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Thank you FW, I appreciate that. I think I’m a pretty good judge of character, and I see huge changes in him. I think 3 deployments to war zones where he experienced massive violence and saw autrocities against humanity, saw the complete diregard for human life,…. I believe it changed him deeply, to his core. He wrote me a sincere apology letter a few years ago, it means a lot to me…. and he’s never laid a finger on me in anger since that day. He hasn’t even gotten mad about stuff I thought he’d be really upset about. He’s different, I see it, I feel it… and most of all, I am different too.

  259.  #259LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Sharing some deep stuff with me. Connection connection connection

  260.  #260Daria on March 15, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    4 years is NOT a long time. ppl do change… but that is NOT solid when a guy hits u

    i know u know that i know ur not with him

    youre selling yourself a dream with this guy

    hes taking care of you cuz youre the mother of his children…

    it might be more than the ppl around u have, but its not too much at all; – like Zara said, he directly benefits

    this man used to HIT YOU. that means he handles conflict by hitting u

    he regularly verbaly abuses you when you talk on the phone about your daughters

    this is NOT a cool choice

    feel free to take your anger and defensiveness out on me

    but im being REAL

  261.  #261Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    And Daria…. if you were concerned about me, why wait until now to say something, and like that? Your sound VERY judgemental to me, and never mentioned anything about it to me before. Ever. I’m wondering why this triggered you now?

  262.  #262Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    You are being a bit3h is what you are being.

  263.  #263Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Your words certainly aren’t encouraging or supportive. You suck as a coach Daria and I really don’t like you.

  264.  #264LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    CDdj is dynamic indeed. I feel so alive speaking to him!

  265.  #265LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    these are the positive vibes I’ve been needing all day! Whooooo

  266.  #266Butterfly wings on March 15, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Daria. Men can and do change. If they want to.

    My ex didn’t and is still the exact same horrible man he was 12 years ago when I left him.

    T’s said that both he and she have changed a lot.

    She is living this and only she can judge if he truly has changed. So why can’t we all be happy for her and support her as she continues to grow and heal?

    She may end up with C or she may not. But she will be a much better person than she was when she was with C regardless.

    Sorry about talking about you in the third person Turquoise.


  267.  #267Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    But I am not going to let you ruin my good mood. I am happy, my life is coming together, I am inspired to make positive changes in my life and I feel really great.

    No matter what might happen with him, he’s being really great to me, and I appreciate that.

    The men you date sound like thugs, gangsters, drug users…. I wouldn’t fish in your bowl, so you don’t have to like mine either.

  268.  #268Butterfly wings on March 15, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Oh and also I grew significantly after leaving my ex. He stayed the same which is why I’m not attracted to him – AT ALL.

    Fron what T says, she’s grown too. If C hadn’t then I’m quite positive T would have zero attraction to him now.


  269.  #269LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:28 pm


    Focus on the blessing darling! It’s a good thing that happened. The past is the past, and abuse is a hot topic that triggers a lot of us. But we are very happy for your joy, please hold on that joy and continue to be in a happy, positive mood!!!

    Love to everyone!

  270.  #270Femininewoman on March 15, 2012 at 8:29 pm


  271.  #271Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Thanks Butterfly wings, and the talking about me in the third person doesn’t bother me. I appreciate the support. Getting slammed on the blog for being happy and excited, feels pretty pathetic, even if someone disagrees with my choices.

  272.  #272Butterfly wings on March 15, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    Turquoise, I’m a coach myself and I know all about abuse first-hand. And although my ex hasn’t changed at all, I know of plenty of men who have.

    C’s situation is kind of different too, because while nothing justifies treating someone badly, he has been through so much more than most of us could even try to imagine. That’s got to affect you in some way!

    So I do feel compassion for him and I can see that he’s definitely doing what he can to help you create a better life.

    Could it be guilt? Maybe. But what really matters is how you and your daughters feel. If you’re anything like me with my girls, all you want is the best for them. And C is helping you with that. He’s also a big part of their lives too, which also impresses me. My ex only wanted regular contact after he realized that he’d have to pay me lots more in child support. Nice.


  273.  #273Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    Thank you Love Always!

    Ok… shifting to happy thoughts again….

    We have had AMAZING weather here this week, I can’t believe it’s mid march and we are having 70 degree, sunny weather. My girls are thrilled… riding bikes, doing tricks on the trampoline, neighbors are out and socializing…. oh it feels so good! One of the best things about this house, is the neighborhood. There are always kids to play with, dogs out to pet…. and it feels so friendly and happy here. I really love it.

    Now along with the heat and sun, has come the thunder. I don’t believe it’s started raining yet… but it’s going to storm tonight. The thunder has been rumbling all evening…. and I feel so safe and cozy inside. Thursday is my favorite TV night, and even though I’m quite squeemish about medical stuff in real life, I LOVE my medical TV shows… although, there is just as much sex and drama on Grey’s and Private Practice as medicine.

    My POF mailbox keeps filling up… and the refreshing part is that most of them aren’t men I’ve heard from before, or even remember seeing on there, so it’s a nice reminder that new single people can arrive in my life at any time. There are a few that sound ok,… we’ll see what happens. I am practicing being open, leaning back and using my feeling messages. So far, getting lots of compliments on my eyes and smile, and one guy said I was stunning, so that was nice to hear. 🙂

    I keep getting what I want, even when I don’t expect to get it or how I expect, especially so soon. It feels kinda making wishes and they are coming true. No negative thoughts, just making a wish, having no expectations and then it happens. It’s unreal. I need to read more about law of attraction… because I don’t know why this is working out like this for me, or how I’m doing it…. but it feels amazing!

  274.  #274Lizka on March 15, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    It was a good night with ModelCD. We ate and smoke and cuddle a bit on the couch… Cute.

    Helped me not think about ATW whi still haven’t tell me if I’m seeing him tomorrow…

    Anyway, I have a back up plan with myself if he can’t see me tomorrow. I’ll go shopping with all that money I got today! Yay!

    Off to bed now sirens. xoxo

  275.  #275LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Good night sweet Lizka! Glad you had a good time tonight!!

  276.  #276Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Thank you Butterfly Wings. It could be guilt, but I believe he only has good intentions, to help me have a better life, to have less stress… and I feel really lucky that even with all we’ve been through, he wants to take care of us, especially the girls. Now that the girls are older, it’s a lot easier for him to have them, and he’s really really stepped up in the last year to see them as much as possible. He wants to be a part of their lives, teach them new things, expose them to new activities, sports. etc. Since remembering to use some of the tools I’ve learned here, and my feeling messages, our conversations are getting a lot better. No more over reactions or arguments. It feels so interesting to apply the tools and see immediate results. Leaning back is helping me to wait, to think, and then respond.

    And the best thing is, I know I’ll be ok, no matter what happens. Before, I’d have insisted for a result, given ultimatums, put pressure on,…. oh the old me, yikes!

    Now, I’m heading to my bridge and I can see the other side, and nothing, nobody, is goingto knock me off my horse, he’s not even on the back… he’s walking beside me and I see the fork in the road ahead. We’ll see what happens when we reach it.

  277.  #277LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    What a wonderful heartfelt connecting conversation with this man, OMG. Thank God my day is ending in such and fabulous way, I am so grateful and feeling full of good inside. Feels fabulous!!!

  278.  #278Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    That is wonderful Love Always…. I feel so happy for you, I love days like that!

  279.  #279LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:09 pm


    Gotcha FW 🙂


    I feel so alive!
    I feel beautiful inside and out
    I feel loving
    I feel compassionate
    I feel warm
    I feel light
    I feel soft
    I feel flowy
    I feel relaxed
    I feel flexible

    I don’t have much faith in D changing…But I do know that I am such a different person from when I met him!
    I feel so happy and grateful that I’ve spent these last excrutiating 2 and a half years with him!
    I never thought that I would ever feel that way in a million years!

    I’ve made the dissociation between his stuff and mine.
    I listened to Toxic Men over and over, maybe 4x.
    Throughout this experience w D, I’ve been hearing Rori’s voice from Toxic Men repeating “which of the stuff is his, and which of it is yours?”
    By answering that question over and over through everything, I’ve managed to dissociate what’s his and what’s mine.
    That’s what helped me return the focus on myself to learn and evolve.
    That’s where my strength and serenity is coming from.

    Are you are all expecting me to hit him on the head with what I found out from the other woman?
    I will tell him what I know, but I will be doing from a place of serenity, love and compassion.
    I will thank him forever for the new me I am now!
    Correction: The ‘REAL’ me I am now.

    I spent the week sinking into my feelings.
    I shared with 1 close friend who told me that me and the other woman are acting childish.
    Coz I told her about the hard time and sweating he was going through last Thursday night when we both wanted to go see him at the same time.
    Her and I weren’t yet talking then, it just happened by fluke.
    He was in a panic and fumbled.
    He called me from his ‘home’ landline phone saying he was at the restaurant with a male friend.
    I was laughing my head off, that’s why my friend was calling me childish.
    I said “Yeah, I’m a big kid having fun! lol 🙂 ”
    I am who I am at every moment and I love and accept who I am.
    I’m not denying my feelings…on the contrary, it’s by soaking in and sinking into all my nasty angry sad feelings that I got to being happy and funloving no matter what the man does.
    I wasn’t attached to any outcome whatsoever when I was seeing him since I walked in to them. I was just leaning back and letting him be who he was.

    Tonight after zumba class, I confided in a close friend. She is such a soft loving siren.
    She completely gets me.
    She validated me for having stayed around him so long, which is why in her opinion that I am not all ‘destroyed’…The truth is it’s bc I had my sister sirens and Rori holding my hand throughout.
    She was the perfect friend at the perfect moment tonight to seal my evolution.
    After our talk, that’s when all the feelings listed above came out.

    He’s gonna think I’m totally nuts! lol
    Of course I feel like protecting myself from him, but not in the same way as before.
    Before I was shutoff and closed off, I had my wall protecting me.
    Now I don’t need that wall to protect me, I have my FMs and my boundaries to protect me! They feel warm and connected! They feel so much better than the cold wall!

    OMG have I changed since he met me!
    I’ve connected to myself like never before!
    My feelings don’t stay stuffed down anymore!
    They come up and I feel them!
    I know them so well now, I can express them!
    I FEEL ALIVE ! 😀
    I used to feel frozen in fear, now I feel like I’m thawing out with spring season!
    What a hot summer this is going to be! Woohoooo!

  280.  #280CurvySiren10 on March 15, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    Turquoise, just wanted to lend some words of support and tell you how happy I am for you. I think your head and your attitude is in the RIGHT place….I know you’re invested in wanting things to work out with C, but being able to just RECEIVE all of the goodness right now is a huge shift. I am very happy for you and also believe that people most definitely CAN and DO change. I trust your judgment and just wanted to tell you so.

  281.  #281sensual on March 15, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    i feel like hyperventilating and crying right now…i feel so hopeless, i went from having all these CDs to having them all disappear on me at once. i feel jerked around and pushed and pulled. the only men in touch are 2 with girlfriends and a check-in text from FWB who will not give me anything real – they just keep me around and don’t step up and the available ones just vanish when 3/4 weeks pass and it comes time to develop things. i feel hopeless right now. sorry for feeling sorry for myself on here and for spamming a bit :(. i feel bad to corrupt the blog with my negativity right now

  282.  #282LoveAlways on March 15, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    Thank you Turquoise – It started off a rough day and now it’s bliss!!!

  283.  #283LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Sorry for the long post, and Thank You all for indulging me…I can’t help it.
    This is the most wonderful I’ve ever felt in my life!
    This wonderful feeling was popping out every time after I’ve sunk into my bad feelings.
    Every time, it feels stronger and stronger, and I’m feeling it more and more often.
    I even feel it at the core, and the bad feelings only feel at the surface. It’s like my feelings did a flip…I let the deeprooted bad feelings rise to the top and the good sank down to the core.

    I’m must look like such a nutcase.
    This is total opposite than I am used to feeling under such circumstances.
    You’ve seen the expression “thinking outside the box”? Well I’m “feeling” outside the box.

    I’m used to feeling lonely and isolated after a breakup with only ‘superficial’ acquaintances and only 2 true close friends.
    Now I have 4 true close friends, and I am constantly going out and have so many wonderful outtings to look forward to!…even vacation…I never thought it was possible for me to go on vacation without a man taking me!

    I’m so in love with myself and my life right now! 😀

    I used to think that happiness was just for other people, not for me!

    Even my friends tell me that I have an alive look on my face compared to before.

  284.  #284Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    Hi sensual,
    i am sorry you are feeling like all your cd’s are vanishing….i wonder why? The next time you magnetize cd’s to you they will stick around i bet….are you invalidating yourself that you are not worthy and so you are attracting this? I like the FW visualiztion you could use to shift your feeling….imagine all the CD;s you could possibly handle bringing you flowers and taking you out and being kind to you and you just receiving….i am going to go do that myself, it is not aneasy one to keep up, it brings up uncomfortable feelings for me, but it feels good initially….
    then the other thing that shifts me into receiving mode and loving my body is breathing into my vagina and letting the muscles relax and as i breathe out, letting all that bliss from letting the vaginal muscles relax bubble out into my aura….that feels really good and honoring of my being a woman….hope this helps and that you feel inspired or at least you know that you have a choice to feel the way you do, wherever you are at, remember you are a sensual, beautiful siren.

  285.  #285Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    Hi lillibee
    great visual to read about you feeling your strength and joy at your core….
    how beautiful and inspiring
    love joy bliss peace to you

  286.  #286LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    I am no longer afraid to let people know I’m interested in them and how I’m feeling happy to see them!

    I’ve been told so often in my life that I look disinterested and bored.
    D told me that I didn’t look interested, so he found it felt good to be open to women who did.

    Guess what! He’s not right for me, he’s too insecure.
    There’s my pattern!
    The last 4 men that cheated on me were all extremely insecure.
    I felt safe with them, bc I was sure that an insecure man would feel so honoured to have me that they wouldn’t stray, they are too insecure to venture showing interest in another woman.
    I believed that insecure men fear rejection too much to make moves on another woman.
    Well, I was wrong, they get their courage when their drunk…and any woman showing them interest is too flattering and selfesteem boosting to turn down.

    The real safety is being connected.
    How could they be connected to me when I put up my wall and shut down!

  287.  #287Healing Waterfall on March 15, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    good night i am going to bed and i hope that tomorrow i will heal even more and i will fall more in love with myself and magnetize more love into my life and i will bring more money too while i am at it.
    good night sirens
    it really felt nice to be back on the blog and read about your lives and be able to comment on mine

  288.  #288Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    Hi Lillibee!! You sound wonderful.

    Sensual… I’m sorry you feel so awful. Remember that real happiness comes when we are happy with ourselves, regardless of having a man. Sending big hugs!

    Thank you curvysiren…. I can’t remember the last time I really received anything substantial. It feels so good… I feel like I don’t have to worry so much, that things will work out… that good things are coming to me, and I won’t have to work so hard to get them. I feel…. relieved, like I can close my eyes, get some sleep… and let what’s going to happen, happen.

    And I am hopeful about C. But, I really have no expectations. Things aren’t working out the way I’d have expected them to anyways so it’s easy to not even really wonder about it. I never thought he’d buy me a house, ever, like in my wildest dreams ever. He will be travelling a lot and won’t be back until Easter, so I have a few weeks to sink into my feelings, and continue focusing on myself.

    And really, even if we tried to make it work, he doesn’t live here, it would be a slow process…. no rushing into anything.

  289.  #289LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:35 pm


    Hi Sensual,

    Sink into those bad feelings so the good ones can rise back on top.

    Those CDs have vanished to shift your vibe so you can attract a brand new fresh batch of CDs better than the 1st.

  290.  #290LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:36 pm


    You’re so wise Turquoise 🙂

  291.  #291Turquoise on March 15, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Ok sirens, I have to get to bed… I am up much later than I planned to be. Sweet dreams/good morning (depending on where you are in the world! )

  292.  #292LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:38 pm


    Thank You HW! It feels good to feel validated by your comment. 🙂

  293.  #293LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Feeeeelllings, oh wo wow wo feeeelings, like I never had beefooore…
    You know the song, come on sing it with me sirens!

    Spammming my good vibes on the blog…I hope you all catch them 🙂

    Off to dreamland. Goodnight sister sirens! xox

  294.  #294LiliBee on March 15, 2012 at 9:48 pm


    Responding to my own post:

    He didn’t make me feel ‘safe’.
    I didn’t make him feel ‘safe’ either.
    All by being disconnected!
    Now I feel connected with myself and I am creating my own safety.
    Feeling ‘safe’ with myself, that makes me ‘trust’ myself.

  295.  #295sensual on March 15, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    thank you lilie bee and healing waterfall. im just going to feel sad tonight coz i need to get it out. i feel drained of energy to even think about putting myself out there to find new CDs and to feel positive about them when the same thing happens over. i’m thinking maybe i need to move city

  296.  #296Starla on March 15, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    175 Ella, sorry I missed that, I had to run to a hair appointment.

  297.  #297Daria on March 15, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    i feel tight in my tummy and angry and sad

    Rori – it would feel great if u can come on the blog and talk about what it means if i say i feel angry often and maybe everyday and how I am encouraged and safe to do that here

    and also what you think about dating, relating with men who have repeatedly HIT us in the past in conflict

    thanks –

  298.  #298Starla on March 15, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Going to bed, feeling so blessed:):) sweet dreams everyone

  299.  #299Brenda on March 15, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    A girl becomes a woman when she learns to love herself more than she loves a man.
    Enlighten. Empower. Esteem. Esteem Yourself E-magazine http://www.EsteemYourself.com
    By: Esteem Yourself

  300.  #300Starla on March 15, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    Daria, I am re-reading over stuff from earlier in the day and i can see that at the time you originally posted I was reading much more of a “charge” (and attack) in your initial words than I can honestly see now. And then I was reading over my own initial words, which i didn’t intend any charge for either, and imagining that at the time you might have felt the same way i did about your words, like there was a charge/attack in MY words, And then things felt intense and bad all the way around earlier.

    oh but then you said you wanted to punch me but called ME an abuser, and i got confused, like what on earth do i say to someone who just told me they want to hurt me with violence? “well actually i don’t want to be punched in the face”? That felt silly to even say and definitely like needless nitpicking anyway because i really trust you’re not going to punch me:). and i also felt like AH HA you really just make no sense, woman, and this just proves it all! but that was just one post so maybe i don’t even want to look at that in terms of the bigger picture. and then every path i consider just feels petty, and the final destination of every path is some form of “proving a point” and that doesn’t feel right at all for me, at least when i am lucky enough to remember i actually have a Choice about the paths I walk down. When I feel triggered I forget about Choice and it feels like paths walk down me and not the other way around.

    in conclusion, i hope your day tomorrow is more peaceful at home and out in the world and in the internetworld.

  301.  #301Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 12:01 am

    Ladies, I have lost 3 pounds since last Friday. And I thought I was eating lots of bad and carb-y foods. But I’ve also been drinking a ton of water. And I’ve actually been letting way more liquid out than I’ve been putting in. So basically, I feel like my body is spontaneously flushing toxins. At the same time that I having a ton of emotional release…it goes together.

    I went for a chiropractic adjustment today. That was pretty spectacular as well. I could feel myself being more relaxed on the table, and ready to “let go” of the subluxations in my joints. So when my chiropractor went to do the structural adjustments, they were really satisfying. I had this great rippling crack up the middle of my back, and she just stepped back and said, “That was awesome.” I agreed. And I laughed. That one always makes me laugh…

    There was this older woman there that I knew. And she didn’t know I was there – until I picked my head up and waved to her, before she walked out (it’s a room with several adjusting tables so multiple people come it at once.) She was surprised to see me, and her first words to me were, “Cute butt.” Tehee! That just about made my day! 🙂

  302.  #302mali on March 16, 2012 at 12:43 am

    I feel so blessed to have clothes which make me look hot.
    I feel so blessed to be me, to be a Siren, to be spiritually aware.
    I feel s blessed to have a truly amazing bunch of people in my life who love and support me.
    I feel blessed to have and be able to love ME.
    And I feel blessed to have the Universe. I love you!! And thankyou for loving me just as you created me <3<3<3

  303.  #303Daria on March 16, 2012 at 3:22 am

    whoa!!! i feel teary…

    this imaginary sexy man, who may have been my dead homeboy, caem into my imagination right now and was feelin attracted by me and touched my heart with his finger and i felt strengthened from teh ball at my tail to my heart and even it felt comfortable to look out my EYES

    not like i was shaking out my body

    and i want to remember feeling like this so that i can use it as a tool again and again

    this mothafuchka just touched me and i felt POWERFUL inside me like i could stand up straight and look people in the eye and was SAFE

  304.  #304mary on March 16, 2012 at 3:23 am


    just reappearing for a moment…

    i read this post and it really interested me.

    Lamabutterfly: your actions are consistent with your beliefs and I admire that.

    Rori and Daria: your actions are consistent with your beliefs, and I admire that, too. And what you say is so true! Some people who don’t have sex before marriage hide behind a virtuous veneer for other reasons: they have addictions, aversions or other hang-ups, and it’s good to steer clear of those people. Abstinence does make sex hugely important, and the need to get married also very important, and that is totally against the thinking these days…

    And Lamabutterfly: it says in the Bible that people who don’t believe think that the practices of believers are foolish. So that is consistent with things that were said on the post and in the comments.

    anyway, all this is very interesting!

    hey again to everyone!

  305.  #305Daria on March 16, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Starla – uhoh i felt like i got punched in the chest just flying through over your comment. i feel baaaaad.. i dont wanna fight no more. i wana be sisters and friends again. im sorry.

    im just gonna skip it in case theres some punches in there and i wanna know anything u wana tell me from there that i might wanna know that might feel good.

    what do you think? id feel better to not fight and i dont wana feel mad at you and now i dont, i feel kinda vulnerable and also kinda relaxed and i know i care about you.

  306.  #306Daria on March 16, 2012 at 3:36 am


    somehow i feel really uncomfortable and deeply angry reading this

    “And Lamabutterfly: it says in the Bible that people who don’t believe think that the practices of believers are foolish. So that is consistent with things that were said on the post and in the comments.”

    i feel deeply offended. in like taht deep deep deep place that like someone is judging my religion kidna way

    and im sure it didnt mean to call me a nonbeliever . or soemthing like that. it coulda been meant that any way although its totally obvious to me it was meant the way im interpreting it, and im being judged in this deep offensive way that feels /MOuntain shakingly disrespectful on a spiritual level

    i love my huge anger

    my ocean

    waving side to side

    moving in my hips

    moving and clenching on the top of my hand


    side to side

    my ocean



    i felt deeply triggered

    waht i thought is not true

    thoughts are not true

    i honor me

  307.  #307Daria on March 16, 2012 at 3:38 am

    omg starla – i guess i just got punched from remembering earlier today, cuz i read your post and it did not feel bad . actually it felt really good.


    sigh of relief.

    <3 Starla


    it feels cool how we both have our own styles of speaking at this time when we are feeling ourselves

  308.  #308Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 4:27 am

    Woohoo! TH bought a new iPad and gave me his old one! Happy happy me!

  309.  #309Turquoise on March 16, 2012 at 4:41 am

    Good morning! I’d like to know what happened to my sweet girl, that now I am mostly getting stress and talking back in the mornings about simple things like eating breakfast and brushing her teeth. She lost her cell phone privledges for the day, and then when I enforced it made some really smart comments about her sister being treated differently on the way out the door, so I called her back in, repeated that I wasn’t putting up with it nor did I deserve to be talked to that, so she’s lost it until Sunday. I usually cave in and give it back sooner, but I am really frustrated with her right now, so not feeling like I can ease up.

    Grrr… not how I wanted to start my day. This needs work.

  310.  #310Turquoise on March 16, 2012 at 4:43 am

    That’s great BW~ 🙂 I don’t have one, but they sound fabulous! I’m enjoying my iphone a lot more than I expected to!

  311.  #311Ella on March 16, 2012 at 4:57 am


  312.  #312Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 5:09 am

    ATW still haven’t call me to tell me if he cancel his plans or not for tonight.

    I am leaning back as hard as I can. I feel frustrated that there is nothing else than leaning back that I can do.

    If he doesn’t call I’ll go shopping after walk and it’s gonna make me happy as I haven’t buy new clothes in a while and I have a big shopping budget this month.

    But ModelCD was suppose to go see a DJ he likes at an afterhour club but he said he’s not sure and if he’s not going we might do something… I feel so confused with keepin my time open for ATW tonight or not…

  313.  #313Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:13 am

    Lizka – don’t keep it open. You are so hot. You are going to have all the guys you deserve soon. You know what I’m talking about.

    Yeah baby!

  314.  #314Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:15 am

    I feel like I have all the guys i deserve….

    BUT… they all propose exclusivity the first day…

    and then they feel “hurt” and dont want to see me again as much. thats the story im telling myself

    im so glad im writing it down!

    it soudns like nonsense


    i was falling for this?

    oh my

    i wanna shorten my dates


  315.  #315Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 5:15 am

    And about the night with ModelCD. We didn’t go out for a drink because I said it was late for me. We ate and we cuddled on the couch watching TV. It was the first time we had a real contact. 3rd date.

    I feel happy that we are going slowly and that he haven’t try to kiss me yet. I like that a lot. I don’t want to be thinking of ATW and feel bad when ModelCD kiss me for the first time. It’s gonna make the kiss taste bitter and I don’t want that. I’m trying to be as open as I can though…

    I’m thinking that I might be acting too “friendly”, making jokes all the time and maybe talking too much. Hmmm gonna try to work on this next time…

  316.  #316Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:16 am

    the guy with my phone never did show up.

    i had another phone at my house and got it turned on!

    i feel so triumphant at not waiting


    woo hoo

  317.  #317Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 5:20 am

    Daria I know I’m not suppose to keep it open. But the thing is I did a mistake yesterday and pressured ATW to tell me when he can see me (I said it felt bad not to have plans in advace and went blamey saying “when you plan all your things with your friends in advance$. I know it’s horrible but it’s in the past now.

    So he said he has plans for tonight and will try to cancel them to be with me… it sounded sincere…

    So if he calls me and says he cancels his plans for me and I just say “too late” I think I’m gonna sound like the worst b*tch ever, no?

    Anyway I’m not gonna be home and waiting by the phone if he can’t see me or just doesn’t call back, I’m gonna be doing one of my favourite things: shopping!

  318.  #318Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 5:26 am

    Now I’m feeling super sad that ATW haven’t call me. I don’t want to be forgotten. I want to be taken care of. He knows I’m feeling sad about the possibility of not seeing him this weekend. I M actually feeling vulnerable. He knows it. I want to be taken care of. Why can’t he take care of me than? I feek teary and my heart feels tight in my breast…

  319.  #319Ella on March 16, 2012 at 5:31 am

    To say I am feelin unbalanced of off centre would be an understatement right now.

    Still not heard from MWC since yesterday afternoon. This is unheard of at the moment.

    Having said that I still feel annoyed at myself for getting this unbalanced over a man.

    I know there is defnitely something up… and I feel so nervous.

    Like a sense of dread.

    Don’t know why I assume the worst.

    Have no idea.

    Maybe he is just in his cave…

    But I am making up all sorts of bad feeling stories.

    Some moments I am actually perfectly fine, and I would even go so far as to say calm and strong… and I can see the bigger picture, and the next moment I am in the soup again. Swimming.

    I know this is my stuff being triggered now.

    I know I intend to be much stronger than this.

    This can feel a bit icky, but I am just wondering if I can choose some different thoughts around this situation to encourage me to feel better?

    I would love to do something tonight however unfortunately I am working till late and can’t think of anything I could do with no money this last minute.

    One thing I am pretty sure on is that I will not be going to MWCs later even if/when he does get in touch.

    He has left it far to late to firm up plans.

    Oh well its probably for the best.

    How am I feeling.

    Nervous ball of ICK in my tummy.

    Think I will keep a low profile on FB for a while too.

    Loving me.

    Wonder how I can take good care of myself tonight?

    Working tomorrow morning too.

  320.  #320Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 5:39 am

    I was thinking that I don’t want ATW just half. I don’t want him to have one fokt in my life and the other one out. Was rhinking of a way to say it in Fm next time I see him. I came with “I feel bad and empty and not taken care of. I don’t want a man who has a foot in my life and the other one out.” but than I thought it’s so not true. I let me other CDs having only one foot in my life (do we say one foot or one step btw?), so why not him? I even let E having a girlfriend for now as i know he’s gonna come back to me after! After all ATW IS JUST ANOTHER D@MM CD!!!! Thabks for remember it Lizka. I feel released now. Ahhhhhhhh!

  321.  #321Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:41 am

    I also talked to a past CD who is also my cousin’s ex and now i feel a holding about taht in my inghinal region

    and now all through my body

    i feel so guilty!

    and embarassed

    and im so glad im writing that

    i feel exposed

    i truly feel embarassed

    and i like this man

    and i feel embarassed

    and ive liked him ever since we were kids

    and he liked her

    and i feel like im begging someone for permission

    to be ok to feel what i feel

    what if it was ok

    ouch stabs

    yu acn turn into an evil backstabber

    and i kissed him when i was 16 and they were dating

    i was drunk at the club and i hit on him

    and he went with it


    and it was fun

    and it was just cuz of the drama it felt thrilling

    and now

    i feel embarassed

    i love drama

    drama feels exciting

    like that melodrama

    telenovela kind


    i get feelings for ‘forbidden” men

    yes its teh ‘forbidden”

    not just unavialable but “forbidden”

    :: :::

    guy who got off on that too

    and so do i

    and im twisted

    i beat mysefl up for liking the “forbidden”

    and i feel so thrilled

    i even feel turned on and thrilled right now writing about it

    i can just aceept this about me?

    i feel scared

    i feel uncomfortable with this about me

    i judge myself about thsi

    and im right about this

    they said

    its bad to be attracted to the “forbidden”


    and noting

    im creating “popularitY” and feeling cool for myself!

    by having a hgue audience of men online

    like my own private facebook
    with men

    who just contstantly compliment me

    it feels awesome

    theres always like 20 writing me

    and wanting to meet me sometimes last minute

    its crankin!


    and iwant it to be even MORE legit

    more awesome even BETter quality men

    wooo hooo

    i wonder what that would feel like

    im gonna ask the ones that mess up for chocolates.

    for me to allow them to see me again and feel comforrable that im not playin myself

    i dont feel good feelin like im playin myself

    or havin less than i feel i deserve

    umfa umfa


    i feel good


    mmmmm im feeling good!

    wow EFT


    i want to give myself permission to feel worthy!!!

    ive been putting myself down much less
    making less jokes at my expense in converastion with others

    and i feel safer with me!!


    i feellike im communicating a higher worth

    i was born with a good COMMAND of my sexuality

    and my legs and hips are very stiff

    from holding it

    holding it

    it happened before i was born it came in my genes


    my dance teacher too her hips arent flexible

  322.  #322Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:45 am

    Feeling like something is off today… not liking this. Spoke to M last night and he was totally engulfed in his custody issues with his ex wife and with his divorce coming up. I understand he has so much to deal with right now and he needs to focus on that. Also, money issues I am sure are bothering him. His ex is wiping him out financially.

    I am upset bc I felt so connected to him the last 2 weeks and now it seems like there is a little ‘rift’ from the couple of last days. Am I being selfish? All this makes me want to lean forward… but I know it’s against the rules. Feeling bad.

  323.  #323Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:46 am

    Lizka – because, you dint have to justify it that you dont hold it up with these other guys

    you just take a babystep with One of them, in this case ATW

    after that, youll more easily tell ?ALL of them you dont want one foot in one foot out

    cuz you DONt!

    but i recommend you get a lil more specific with how you feel and get in a sensation of your body in the message.

    im writing this too you cuz i often feel worrie dill be “called on it” (but you called THAT guy, why not me) but its not about that. its about me and my boundary, so just cuz i had poor boundaries in the past with everybody doesnt mean im not gonna have good boundaries with This man, right now. and then ill see how i feel. and then ill see how i feel some more.

  324.  #324Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:48 am

    I want to sleep in his arms every night.
    Wow, it feels good to admit that.

  325.  #325Daria on March 16, 2012 at 5:49 am

    Siren Angel – no you are not being selfish…

    anytime you notice youreslef thnking that word about yourself really notice it and soothe youreslf and love yourself. KNOW … just DECIDE. now that its not true. and remind yourself when you notice it. that you decided its not true. that no matter how loud, or how logical, the voice is, YOU are in charge. and you Know its not true.

    and then love the part of you that learned to think taht of herself . awww . that lil girl.

    And also, instead of leaning forward… lean backward. you’re feeling lonely and disconnected. thats not good treatment from a guy. dont jump in him… he’s not filling u up. forget about him. do something fun. man energy will come running after somethign moving away

  326.  #326Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:51 am

    Is it possible a man is holding off moving forward when his divorce/custody issue is not resolved yet? I keep feeling that when all the custody/divorce issues are being him then he will step up even more and we can move forward. Am I imagining this, lying to myself?

    He said something that made me smile last Sunday on our last vacation day: He said, just when we were packing up to leave the cottage that he was happy and that it was a good decision to go back to that cottage we had issues in last xmas, that we replaced the bad moments with really good moments and that ‘We are back on our horse’!!! lol 🙂

  327.  #327Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:53 am

    Daria @319,

    You are right, these are bad thoughts, giving them a cookie now and sending them off.

  328.  #328Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:57 am

    So M has decided during the vacation that ‘we should both remove completely our match profiles’ (he had reposted during our breakup a profile). I am so nervous. My profile has been hidden for weeks now, but I didnt remove yet. It feels like giving away further possibilities until I am sure he is stepping up to what I want. Then again, we had decided weeks ago to be completely exclusive to each other.

    I am not even checking if his profile is still up, not logging in. It feels beneath myself to do anything like that or give that any kind of energy in the first place.

    I am the prize.

    I am a Goddess.

    I am a Siren.

    I am THE ONE.

  329.  #329Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 5:58 am

    When he tells me his profile is removed, then I will remove mine.

  330.  #330Daria on March 16, 2012 at 6:00 am

    Lizka – ive been reading your posts i knwo about the maybe hell cancel. Dont keep it open.

    maybe he’ll cancel is NOT a date.

    A real woman worth having wont wait for anybody

    you dont need a maybe

    you onlyl make yourself FOR SURE when its for A FOR SURE

    meanwhile, you dont have any plans right now. that is reality.

    and if he changes them, you say :

    wow i feel kinda surprised… i didnt hear from you yeseterday that felt kinda bad… i feel kinda upset actually…

    then depending on what he says you can also say something like : i made plans now it wouldve felt great to do that if i knew ahead of time.

    and then forgive him like : thank you for apologizing. when i dont hear about plans ahead of time, i feel kinda forgotten and all casual and that feels bad. i dont want to feel bad it makes me feel turned off.

    and then stuff like:

    well yeah, i’d feel open to see you again though… i feel good that you made an effort for me … acutally i feel really flattered 🙂

  331.  #331Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 6:00 am

    Getting ready to leave the house and have my hair done… deepening my new brunette color and getting a hair-cut (just a trim on the ends). I want my hair to be a flowing waterfall of lovely brunette silky strands that end in little curls, like rippling waves of silk. Awww… I feel so good when I take care of me. 🙂

  332.  #332Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 6:02 am

    And M just loves my hair, and the new color. 🙂

  333.  #333Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 6:03 am

    Daria 317 –

    Not sure to understand what you are trying to tell me. What do you exactly recommend. Sorry for bein confused…

  334.  #334Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 6:03 am

    And he really loves my yoga tush… ;-O

  335.  #335Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 6:04 am

    And he tells me all the time ‘you are so beautiful’… I feel so melty inside and proud of myself.

  336.  #336Ella on March 16, 2012 at 6:14 am

    ((((Siren Angel))))

    re 316

    Me too honni.

    Hugs to you.

  337.  #337Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 6:17 am

    Turquoise that’s is how it goes when they are turning into teenagers, I have it too. On the flip side she is also opening up a door where you can practice feeling messages and not reacting to her comments. I would not focus on what she is saying either I try to do that with my kids. She is a girl like you and just learning about her emotions. Maybe next time ask her if she would want her daughter or someone else to talk to her like that. Or tell her when she is calmer if she would want to repeat what she said because you know she does not want to hurt mummy’s feelings. My daughter tends to respond to things like these. Unfortunately, they don’t like to be lectured and tend to shut down when we do. My daughter has asked me if I really believe it is going to make any difference or if I think she is going to do what I say. I allow her to speak her mind but remind her that I am the mom and I make decisions so if she wants them to be in her favor then she knows what to do. I also practice using my soft voice in these circumstances also.

  338.  #338Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 6:21 am

    RE 316 Don’t think about it as rules Siren Angel. It is about taking care of yourself. He needs the space and understanding right now to allow him to focus on what he has to take care of. He is feeling the pressure of a failed relationship and might even be thinking that “he” failed. At this juncture you certainly don’t want to be seen or experienced as a woman from his past. You want to be like a breath of fresh air to him. Let him take care of his situation by leaning back. I believe you will be on his mind the whole time because he will definitely miss your energy.

  339.  #339Ella on March 16, 2012 at 6:25 am

    OK MWC has just contacted me with a text with just a load of kisses.

    And I still feel totally off key.

    I feel so insecure right now.

    I think part of it is cus I no longer feel trusting of him.

    So when he disappaers for a bit I don’t think ‘Ah he is just in his cave, all is well, he’ll be back soon’ and go about my day feeling good.

    Instead what happens is my NVs start screaming at me and I assume he is on a drinking binge or something.


    Well I am not going to fix this.

    And it does make me wonder whether I would ever feel safe with this man? And so whether this would be something I would want in a partner?

    Oh well. I suppose time will tell.

    I am being as good as I can and doing my CD-ing duties.

    I contacted Super Nice CD via text this morning and was totally honest with him about situation, including that I am seeing MWC etc… So it is with him now whether he still wants to get back to me or not.

  340.  #340Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 6:26 am

    RE 303 BW I am sorry if I rain on your parade but I have to say I felt so triggered reading “TH bought a new iPad and gave me his old one”. It felt like my whole torso jerked forward. I know it is my stuff having to wear hand me downs and second hand stuff during my lifetime. Also having my mother deliberately favor my dad when serving dinner with special pieces of meat, bigger pieces etc. to the point of taking back stuff and looking it over to make sure I was not taking the best. Thanks for bringing this up to heal for me and helping me to accept that I am worthy of more than the what’s used so I can open myself up to receive it. This feels like a weight on my chest and a ball in my throat. I really have to tap on this.

  341.  #341Starla on March 16, 2012 at 6:36 am


  342.  #342Starla on March 16, 2012 at 6:39 am

    FW 334 I just want to hug you… that feels so twisted, but i can’t put my fingers on the words to exactly describe what’s wrong with that picture you described about your mother serving your dad food.. but i am imagining being a little girl and having my mother inspect my food to make sure it wasn’t too good for me, and feeling like (as a child in mind right now) life on planet earth s*cks.

  343.  #343Starla on March 16, 2012 at 6:53 am

    I feel so triggered reading comments about parenting daughters. I feel scared i’ll read something awful. My mom was lame.

    Last night my best friend and I were talking about our respective cats we grew up with, and how they died, and I have told a few people that when my cat died, i was about 13-14, and my mom left me with my dying, screaming cat for the weekend so she could go out of town with some guy, and when she came back, i went to bed because i was exhausted being with my dying cat for two days and i had school the next day, and my mom wouldn’t let me put him down because of money. My cat died that night, and when it happened, my mom woke me up and started screaming at me in bed that my cat was dead and i didn’t even give a f*ck. I tried to argue with her that i did care about my cat (omg i still cry to this day thinking about my kitty, i loved my cat) but she just got nastier and nastier.

    Last night I actually got really upset for the first time talking about it. I feel a huge sense of relief feeling truly upset about it. All these years I couldn’t even wrap my head around it and just felt confused and unworthy and f*cked up over it since it happened, but i could never bring myself to get really upset, like “what a f*cking wh0re she was for doing that.”

  344.  #344Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 6:55 am

    Starla I experienced it again just last week and you can’t begin to imagine how it feels. I don’t even like taking anything from her or asking for anything. I know she does not realize what she is doing but it still sucks. Really highlights to me the work I have to do in believing that I am worthy and to be open to receiving. I feel a knot in my stomach just typing that.

  345.  #345Starla on March 16, 2012 at 7:00 am

    a mother would have waited until the next day to tell me the cat passed and given me a hug, or woken me up to give me a hug and tell me the sad news and be there for me and cry with me (my mom WAS upset about the cat, she really loved him too). But she wasn’t in mother mode. She was in f*cking wh0re mode i guess.

    ohhh i will never have another cat. i thought i wanted one now but Sampson is my one and only cat, i miss him terribly and i hate how he died suffering and how we didn’t put him down when he got sick and he just suffered and screamed all weekend.

    sorry to be such a downer, ladies.

  346.  #346Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 7:04 am

    Ah sh*t. I feel the urge to call ATW to see if we are seeing each other tonight!

  347.  #347Starla on March 16, 2012 at 7:06 am

    Lizka, this might be awful advice, but maybe you could text him and say ‘good morning, so what do you think about tonight?’ and see what he says.

    remember to take no for an answer.

    it just stinks, you leaned forward and he said he might cancel to see, and now you are on the hook for that. next time if you don’t lean forward, you won’t have to worry about this:):):)

  348.  #348Ella on March 16, 2012 at 7:07 am


    I would give you the BEST piece of meat if you came to dinner.


  349.  #349Ella on March 16, 2012 at 7:10 am

    Lizka / Daria.

    It feels helpful to me to see your exchange.

    I am decided for me that I will NOT be seeing MWC tonight as our plans were not firm and he has no confirmed.

    I am not keeping it open.

    In fact I have just replied to another CD however even if this didn’t happen I will make plans with myself.

    I plan to have a night to myself tonight, away from FB and everything and just snuggle in bed and watch a film… or maybe I will meet this other CD for a bit first.

    Lizka if I was you I would decide for yourself that you are NOT free, make other plans.

    I know it feels scary and sometimes this scary step can be the only way to break the pattern.

    What do you think?

  350.  #350Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 7:18 am

    FW no problem. I actually wanted his old iPad but hadn’t asked when he mentioned he was buying a new one. He’s also left the sim in it too so I have Internet wherever I go! 🙂

  351.  #351Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 7:20 am

    I feel sick. We just got home from the gym and I’m in bed now. I’m going to do another test on Sunday and will go to the doctor on Monday regardless of the result.

    I’m not liking this bloated belly one bit!!! :-/

  352.  #352Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 7:23 am

    Starla 341. Yeah I know. It was a good lesson.

    I like your idea. But I’m so afraid that he says no… I think I’ll wait to noon to send the text, so he have a chance to surprise me. It’s now 10.30 here…

  353.  #353Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 7:23 am

    BW it could be something else going on. Seems you are assuming it could only possibly be pregnancy.

  354.  #354Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 7:24 am


  355.  #355Lizka on March 16, 2012 at 7:26 am

    Thank you for the advice Ella. I’m not sure what I’m gonna do yet. I like Starla’s idea. But I won’t do it right now though. So I might change my mind in the mean time and accept a plan with ModelCD if he calls. But ModelCD usually calls only after work anyway. So I might be safe.

  356.  #356Silver Moonbeam on March 16, 2012 at 7:27 am

    #255 Turquoise (previous thread)

    I feel bad like people must think I am some kind of zombie with no feelings, it’s not like that at all, just that for the most part my life is very peaceful and calm, no kids, no family dramas, etc.

    Sure I get pi$$ed off sometimes at people I work with or have GREAT days when the sun is shining and spring is in the air. And since I left my last terrible job and damp apartment I feel sincere and utmost GRATITUDE and practise saying in to The Universe (when I remember to 🙂 )

    But I’m not on an emotional roller coaster any longer………hope that makes sense.

  357.  #357Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 7:31 am

    FW – I’ve been pregnant three times and this is exactly the same as the last few times except this time I’m on birth control. It could also be a phantom pregnancy or even early menopause??? I have no idea. A test on Sunday should rule out pregnancy though because by then the hcg levels should be high enough if theres a mini me in there! 😉

  358.  #358Silver Moonbeam on March 16, 2012 at 7:32 am

    #334 FW

    Same with the hand me down clothes and second hand stuff.

    When I was a kid my dad used to get the lamb chop or steak or whatever while we kids used to get sausages, because he was the breadwinner and the man of the house, wow I have never even thought of this until now.

    Maybe that’s why I spend too much!!!! 🙁

  359.  #359lk on March 16, 2012 at 8:02 am

    i keep fantasizing about my wedding lol : ) i think i can plan it nearly for free : ))) LOL

  360.  #360lk on March 16, 2012 at 8:10 am

    i already own a wedding dress : ) (& i only have to lose 5 lbs for it to fit… normal, right ? lol)

    i don’t want “real” flowers (because florists are so weird & gross & synthetic) & my buddy is an artist who paints fields of flowers, so i could just put up a bunch of his art : )))

    my family is very musically talented & i feel certain my cousins would oblige me by singing & playing : )

    i’ll just buy a huge cake for the reception at the church (because my mama wants “everyone” to be invited LOL – me too ! ) & then have a party downtown that is more relaxed & fun & loud with cupcakes for the “groom’s cake” : ) yum

    wowww lol i’m a creep. but that does sound like a fun time : )

  361.  #361lk on March 16, 2012 at 8:13 am

    eek i feel embarrassed & silly o_0 i did not know i had a wedding fantasy like that… hm

  362.  #362Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:16 am

    Oh gosh I am feeling so shaky inside right now.

    So I have arranged a CD tonight with Super Nice CD and I am going straight from my Zumba class, all sweaty and dressed in exercise clothes!!

    We are just having a quick meal.

    I feel really nervous.

    Not cus of meeting him just cus it kinda feels a little bit scary making this plan when initially MWC and I had mentioned maybe seeing each other tonight.

    And I am having those NVs telling me I am a selfish, heartless biatch.

    I feel mean, and a bit scared.

    Imagining all kinds of judgemental, telly offy voices…

  363.  #363Clueless Response on March 16, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Hi Rori,
    My husband and I have been together for 14 years, and have been married for 6 years. We have 2 kids- the second one is his biological child. I have felt disconnected from my husband for years- no romance, neglect, and withdrawal…. He connects with the kids better than with our relationship-he relates to my girls better than he relates to me. (He would rather play with the kids than talk to me) He does alot of small talking with me- regarding the weather, television/media news, problems he’s having at work….. and he often talks to me while watching TV, on his laptop computer, shaving, or walking around the house. I have tried your tools recently: taking the dance position, delivering feeling messages, and the 4 rules. I feel better with the idea of taking the feminine energy and allowing him to take the masculine energy, and I want him to pursue me, and take an interest in me-time, attention, romance, etc… However, after delivering a feeling message about something, he always responds with “well what do you think about it” or “well what do you think we should do? He’s always responding to my questions with a question. What should I do? How do I get him to respond differently to my feelings?

  364.  #364lk on March 16, 2012 at 8:20 am

    why do i want to do everything “for free” always ? i can & it feels easy ? it would be “neat” to do wedding on the beach or somewhere beautiful or whatever… i saw a wedding once at the grand canyon right on the lip : ) … ummm….. yes, but i’d prefer to have it go so easy & flow so well that i have the most fun day ever, no stress. no expectations… i can’t get myself to want a big tent full of caterers & soggy women teetering on heels… i’m like, “people fight with their boyfriends at events like that” lol that’s ptsd from sorority formals o_0

  365.  #365Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Lillibee 282 – Wow, that really resonated with me! I know I’ve dated a lot of, or even primarily, insecure men in the past. I guess the feeling was similar for me. I never thought anyone would “stray.” It was more the addictive feeling that they were so attracted to me that they felt “lucky” to be with me, but that they knew they themselves were not the greatest catch. So they worked hard to keep me. And I felt “safe.” Not only because of their devotion. But I guess because they were so “addicted” to me, too….hm….

    I am not sure if I am dating “needy” guys right now. I didn’t see OM as needy. Although I could be blocking that. He seems to have a healthy self-esteem. (Maybe that made me feel threatened??) But one thing came clear to me last night – and I knew this already, but I seemed to see it differently – which is that *I* have an unhealthy and low self-esteem. When I say I saw it differently, I mean I saw it objectively. It is just a fact. It is a product of certain events in my life. Even if I wasn’t traumatically or sexually abused when I was a child, I know for a fact that my mother is a verbal abuser, and just about every day, a little more of my self esteem was shaved away, until – I have barely anything left. I have to scramble and scrap together what I can from the pieces around me. But it’s never enough. My father was better at building up my self esteem. But he would yell at me and belittle me, too. He would encourage “perfectionism,” and (in the name of excellence) I learned from him not to tolerate even the smallest mistakes…

    Therefore I don’t tolerate mistakes when I make them. And I sure as heck don’t tolerate them when other people do. Because other people are supposed to be even more perfect than I am….

    I feel better when I get love and attention from a man, because I can forget, momentarily, that I don’t really have much self-esteem to speak of from myself.

    And it doesn’t help (but it probably doesn’t hurt) that I am a really good actress. I can put on a great show of being a confident, self-assured woman. This is how people see me when they are first getting to know me. But once they scratch the surface, they find out that there is nothing really holding up the building. It’s all just a pretty-looking shell. And all I’ve really got are a few beams supporting the walls and roof. And some of the wood is rotting…

    I don’t feel I have enough resources to get more wood. I don’t know how to build the structure.

    The people who were supposed to teach me failed in that regard, and only let me know so much. they probably didn’t know themselves, since they’re own structures were weak. But they kept me weak so that they could feel strong. They were the neediest of all.

    And now I have no clue as to what the inner workings of a strong house should look like. Or if I do, then I am afraid I will “lose myself” if I change my “house” in any way. But I am also not happy, only knowing how to make the outside of me look pretty (as if that would automatically reflect an inner beauty as well)


    Ah, well. But at least I can see it, and I can see it differently now. I don’t have to blame myself for the circumstances that put me in this disadvantaged position (and that is how I feel, basically all the time, because of this – that I am at a constant disadvantage to everyone around me, especially if they have high healthy self-esteem). I do have basically the same resources and building material as anyone else, however. Just less experience in building. But I *can* learn, and I *can* build. If I can figure out how….

    p.s. lillibee (that was a big tangent 🙂 ) – I also agree that an insecure man will be flattered by another woman who likes him and gives him that “drug.” Better to find a man with healthy self esteem! (Not too much confidence, though. That is a sign of the same self-image problem.) I like Humility. I find that to be one of the sexiest, most attractive qualities…when a man knows he is not perfect, and yet he is not “down” on himself either. It’s lovely…

  366.  #366Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:24 am

    I feel bad.

    MWC was talking about how work was suggesting he take Friday night off… but he didn’t know what to do and would feel lonely/bored on his own.

    I felt urges to ‘fix’ it cus I feel anxious that these would be triggers for him to drink.

    And I know that is dangerous, co-dependant behaviour.

    Anyway not quite sure how it conspired but we started planning an evening together.

    And he said ‘I will think of something for us to do’ (that is free as he has no money now).

    Then he said ‘Oh except I might work cus I am still waiting to hear and I could do with the money’.

    No more was said about it, and I have made a new plan.

    But I would feel badly if he now ends up sitting at home alone, even though I know its not my job to mollycuddle him.

    Sirens can you help me get some perspective on this please?

    I would love to feel reassured that I am doing the right thing here cus it feels hella uncomfortable.

  367.  #367Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:26 am

    So if I am CD-ing a man, as a friend, should he still pay??

  368.  #368Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Gosh I feel like such a pathetic baby.

    I don’t seem to be able to maintain good feelings for even a day at the moment if things are not going well in my crack fix relationship.

    I know its just a blip/muddy pond moment.

    I just feel fed up of my own drama.

    Oh well. Gonna love it anyway.

    Feeling invisible on blog today.

  369.  #369Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Ella I believe it is good you are getting fed up of your own drama. Hopefully as you get to that place it becomes easier to move into healing.

  370.  #370Starla on March 16, 2012 at 8:37 am

    lk, i think your wedding sounds awesome, and i hope you invite me and maybe (maybe maybe) if it feels right, I’ll bring CF as my date, but either way i’ll take him with me shopping antique and thrift stores to find you and CD a wedding gift that feels perfect and i am SO EXCITED for your romantic future with CD lol i’m gushing, what the heck?? spring is in me. i’m wearing a dress and big beautiful earrings today:):).

  371.  #371Starla on March 16, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Ella, Tony Robbins says if things aren’t feeling good romantically in your life, everything else feels less than too. Don’t beat yourself up.

    What can you do besides think about crack (lol) today?

  372.  #372Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:44 am

    FW yes.

    I hope so… I just seem to come back here again and again…

    Although I suppose in all fairness the gaps between are getting longer… and maybe it is losing some of its severity.

    Is this healing or am I just going in circles??

  373.  #373Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:47 am



    I am doing loads of stuff… like I am working on my business, and planning my CD for tonight.

    I am teaching in an hour or so…

    Unfortunately due to my annoying multi tasking abilities I seem to be able to do all this and STILL think about the man crack!!

    And I just feel icky still.

    Could try a drop to the floor maybe?

  374.  #374Ella on March 16, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Oh Heck.

    MWC calling now and I feel so nervous I don’t even want to pick up.

    What do I do??

    This feels bad.

    I don’t want to talk to him right now and feel worried about stuff.


  375.  #375Starla on March 16, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Ella, a drop to your knees sounds awesome. Just remember, YOU have the power!


  376.  #376Ella on March 16, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Owww, its interesting how some men on POF DO NOT like it when you don’t ask them how they are… I’ve noticed this a few times.

    Man IM-ed me…


    Then ‘How are you?

    Me: ‘Hello, I am feeling fine thank you’

    Him ‘I’m fine thanks’

    And he left the chat!

  377.  #377Iamabutterfly on March 16, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Today, I feel thankful for gorgeous weather. Feels so warm and bright and good. I feel thankful for the final fling with my girls last night before my friend gets married! So fun. 🙂 I feel grateful for my amazing lunch today; vegetable sushi rolls, a juicy apple, and a handful of spicy almonds. Yuuummm. 🙂 I feel thankful for an extremely packed weekend. Get together at a friend’s house tonight, wedding tomorrow morning, and then a fun day trip to see one of my best childhood friends on Saturday! Love love love. So blessed. 🙂

  378.  #378Iamabutterfly on March 16, 2012 at 9:45 am

    also, MetincollegeCD got back in touch with me, after like MONTHS, lol. he is SUCH a great guy. Has a lot of great stuff going on for him right now, just like I do! He’s really smart, driven, and cute. Feels really nice to be back in touch. 🙂

  379.  #379Starla on March 16, 2012 at 9:46 am

    ack! one of my duties at work is to randomly select winners for the sweepstakes our survey respondents enter into as a thank you for taking the online survey. And I usually email the winners to get a mailing address for the check and then call the next day if they haven’t replied.

    So I called a woman today who has won 100 dollars. Awesome right? No. She sad “I called the company you said is your client and they said you don’t work for them.” And just continued to treat me like trash. Well, she didn’t treat me like trash but it felt trashy! I’m trying to give her 100 dollars for a sweepstakes she took the time to enter into at the end of a survey she took, and she’s treating me like I’m a criminal or something.

    I know people are guarded and I don’t fault her, but it made me feel badbadbad. One of my favorite things ever is to give people free money at my job:). And I’m fighting the funk she put me in.

  380.  #380Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 9:47 am

    369 seems like an assumption to me. Any number of things could have happened. I leave chat rooms abruptly sometimes too, especially when they are taking a while to respond.

  381.  #381Starla on March 16, 2012 at 9:50 am

    The reason the company said I don’t work for them is because she called their 800 tech support number and they have no idea over in India who their research vendors are. They just answer phones and tell you how to fix your broken sh*t.

  382.  #382lk on March 16, 2012 at 10:04 am

    @Starla lol that’s funny… she should practice receiving ! : )))

  383.  #383Starla on March 16, 2012 at 10:04 am

    And then on facebook there is a discussion going on amongst some local activists that i know and really respect, and they’re talking about this awful racist anti-obama bumper sticker. And one of them said “ugh that is just disgusting. they should just kill themselves.”

    and saying someone should kill themselves is pretty disgusting too! and i just feel stuck and bombarded by this hypocritical and paranoid and negative energy eeeeeeeeeeeeep

    so i’m looking at pictures of kittens to cheer myself up but my stomach just hurts now.

  384.  #384lk on March 16, 2012 at 10:34 am

    (((starla))) politics can over-heat things very quickly.

    once, i ripped down my hall-mate’s poster in the dorms in college. she had a mccain-palin poster up & obama had just won & i was drunk & excited & i ripped it down & said to my friends in the hallway, “i’ll save her the time… & embarrassment” & i tore the poster into small pieces & threw them in the trash. the girl opened the door & said, “I’m not embarrassed.” & the next day she had taped the pieces of the poster back together & it was up on her door the rest of the academic term. very depressing. i felt so so so embarrassed. i wrote her an apology letter the next morning, but i still feel mortified when i think of it.

    ….however, i still kind of believe that anything that suggests sarah palin is a qualified leader for our country *should* be summarily destroyed. o_0 maybe i haven’t quite learned my lesson ?

  385.  #385Silver Moonbeam on March 16, 2012 at 10:40 am

    #152 FW

    Do the stubborn ones ever get out girled or do they just fade away?

  386.  #386Starla on March 16, 2012 at 10:47 am

    I just looked up about Palin and Obama and I see that they had about equal political experience going into the 2008 race. Actually it looks like Palin had a lot more executive branch experience. Not that I have any desire for that woman to be in charge of anything that affects me :D, but it’s interesting.

    And I think you are soooooo sweet for writing an apology letter.

  387.  #387Starla on March 16, 2012 at 10:54 am

    i cancelled my lunch date with Kenya. I don’t feel like going. And that’s okay. But I feel like a b*tch or something. I think, though, as a siren, I can cancel dates if i don’t feel up to it.

  388.  #388lk on March 16, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @starla, i didn’t feel upset so much in terms of political experience; i felt upset because it seemed that mccain didn’t research her position or qualifications before inviting her onto his ticket. it felt like palin was a “republican clinton” – like both generic Woman-types….. ummm… & also palin seems to take no interest in ” politics ” – at least as i’d define it.

    anyway, still feeling that fire in my belly actually. not that there is anything wrong with sarah palin herself. & if people want to vote for her, i can’t stop them : )

  389.  #389Silver Moonbeam on March 16, 2012 at 10:55 am

    #372 Starla

    I do online surveys all the time!! I am still waiting for somebody to phone me to say I have won money!! Pick meeeeeeeee 😀

  390.  #390lk on March 16, 2012 at 10:56 am

    it felt like a sexist marketing ploy to see sarah palin run. i’m sorry for triggers, ladies….

  391.  #391lk on March 16, 2012 at 10:59 am

    but i know sarah palin wanted political celebrity & authority… i know she pursued it… hm.

    anyway, i will have to come back to these feelings to keep picking at them… : )

  392.  #392lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:02 am

    @starla definitely you can cancel : ) but you will have to see him still on the train lol : )))

  393.  #393Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:03 am

    i won’t see him on the train cuz cf is coming to pick me up from the office today and then take me home to cook me dinner:)

  394.  #394lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:11 am

    awwww i love being picked up from work !!! it feels so special & cozy & pampered : ) have fun !

  395.  #395Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:16 am

    kenya was very kind and understanding. i like that. sometimes guys get all butthurt.

  396.  #396lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:22 am


    Most people have automatic, long-standing ways of thinking about their lives and themselves. These long-held thoughts and beliefs can feel normal and factual, but many are actually just opinions or perceptions.

    Also pay attention to thought patterns that tend to erode self-esteem:

    All-or-nothing thinking. You see things as either all good or all bad. For example, “If I don’t succeed in this task, I’m a total failure.”

    Mental filtering. You see only negatives and dwell on them, distorting your view of a person or situation. For example, “I made a mistake on that report and now everyone will realize I’m not up to this job.”

    Converting positives into negatives. You reject your achievements and other positive experiences by insisting that they don’t count. For example, “I only did well on that test because it was so easy.”

    Jumping to negative conclusions. You reach a negative conclusion when little or no evidence supports it. For example, “My friend hasn’t replied to my email, so I must have done something to make her angry.”

    Mistaking feelings for facts. You confuse feelings or beliefs with facts. For example, “I feel like a failure, so I must be a failure.”

    Self put-downs. You undervalue yourself, put yourself down or use self-deprecating humor. This can result from overreacting to a situation, such as making a mistake. For example, “I don’t deserve anything better.”

  397.  #397lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:24 am


    Now replace negative or inaccurate thoughts with accurate, constructive thoughts. Try these strategies:

    Use hopeful statements. Treat yourself with kindness and encouragement. Pessimism can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, if you think your presentation isn’t going to go well, you might indeed stumble through it. Try telling yourself things such as, “Even though it’s tough, I can handle this situation.”

    Forgive yourself. Everyone makes mistakes — and mistakes aren’t permanent reflections on you as a person. They’re isolated moments in time. Tell yourself, “I made a mistake, but that doesn’t make me a bad person.”

    Avoid ‘should’ and ‘must’ statements. If you find that your thoughts are full of these words, you might be putting unreasonable demands on yourself — or on others. Removing these words from your thoughts can lead to more realistic expectations.

    Focus on the positive. Think about the good parts of your life. Remind yourself of things that have gone well recently. Consider the skills you’ve used to cope with challenging situations.

    Relabel upsetting thoughts. You don’t need to react negatively to negative thoughts. Instead, think of negative thoughts as signals to try new, healthy patterns. Ask yourself, “What can I think and do to make this less stressful?”

    Encourage yourself. Give yourself credit for making positive changes. For example, “My presentation might not have been perfect, but my colleagues asked questions and remained engaged — which means that I accomplished my goal.”

    These steps might seem awkward at first, but they’ll get easier with practice. As you begin to recognize the thoughts and beliefs that are contributing to your low self-esteem, you can actively counter them — which will help you accept your value as a person. As your self-esteem increases, your confidence and sense of well-being are likely to soar.

  398.  #398Hopeful on March 16, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Wow LK. that is great. I wondered which coach sent that out. Then I saw the Mayo clinic text.


  399.  #399Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:29 am

    rahhh and my coworker IMd me and said he was going to take me to the sex shop to buy me a sex toy to cheer me up, wtf!! and i was like “did you really just say that? take it back” and i let it go kinda lightly.

    and then he just told me my banter with my assistant is non stop and it really bothers him. and it’s not non stop. but whateverrrrr

    what a f*cking d*ck. maybe he should go to the sex shop and buy himself a butt plug to cheer himself up!

  400.  #400Hopeful on March 16, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Starla – Regarding that sweepstakes thing: I used to work for a company that ran contests too, and we had a really hard time getting people to people they really won a prize because there are so many scammers out there. The people didn’t even remember they entered contests. And we would have to leave tons of voicemails and emails and no one would return them.

    My coworkers who had to give away the prizes got so frustrated that they were trying to do a kind thing and people thought they were scamming them.

    It is sad that people are so conditioned for scammers that they cannot even believe it when they win something for real. Sigh.

  401.  #401Hopeful on March 16, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Starla – Yeah guys hate chick chat at work. I have heard this complaint too from guys.

    Perhaps your coworker just needs some voice cancelling headphones instead of going to the s3x toy shop.

  402.  #402lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:34 am

    one automatic thought i have is that “everyone is cooler & more attractive than i am” which is really old & i feel bad for my little girl that she heard that so much & can’t stop believing it for very long at a time & i’m noticing that my OCD came in right as my Irrational Fear started to diminish… so i’m thinking i invented my rituals to fix my fear. at the heart of the fear is that i’m totally worthless & i am completely abandoned. (((lk)))

  403.  #403lilybelle on March 16, 2012 at 11:35 am


    Turq~ I feel so d@mn excited for you, girl!

    Joyous, actually.

  404.  #404Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:36 am

    he doesn’t have a problem with “endless banter” when he’s engaging in it.

    this guy sometimes throws me so off. once he kicked me “accidentally,” and other times he has said really rude things about the clothes and shoes i’m wearing. and then when he’s not doing that, he’s being very friendly. it’s just all dysfunctional.

  405.  #405lk on March 16, 2012 at 11:39 am

    honestly, for some reason i’m having a really really difficult time not believing that i am Ugly & horribly Broken or a Sinner. i feel guilty for being Socially Awkward sometimes & i feel sad for wanting to see flaws in other people sometimes. i want to see the best in humans & love them for it & also see the worst & still love them for it. & i can start with me… this feels so cyclical. i know it is. i know i go high-low, crest-trough… here we go… i’d like to get all my blog entries in a single document & see if they feel helpful to re-read & understand myself : )

  406.  #406Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I am feeling teary right now… Trying to keep busy, but I just want to break down and have a good cry.

  407.  #407Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:43 am

    we are the only two women in the whole place…they can s*ck it. talking abou stupid football all day. who cares.

  408.  #408Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 11:45 am

    At Walmart… And I just want to cry. I just came back from hairdresser and my hair is WAY too dark. I hate it 🙁

  409.  #409Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 11:45 am

    At Walmart… And I just want to cry. I just came back from hairdresser and my hair is WAY too dark. I hate it 🙁

  410.  #410Starla on March 16, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Has anyone heard from Laughing Goddess?

  411.  #411Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Starla he might be just immature

  412.  #412Rori Raye on March 16, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Clueless – he’s “outgirling” you. Don’t let that happen. You likely have been habitually the “solver” in this relationship – and you have to stop it entirely. “I don’t know” is going to be your best answer for awhile, with a smile, and a “I trust you completely to figure this out” as a follow up…Love, Rori

  413.  #413Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I was wondering about her too

  414.  #414Hopeful on March 16, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Ella – I agree with Feminine Woman on this one.

    It is good that you are getting fed up with the drama. I feel like that is what was happening with me last week, and it helped me move forward.

    I have been so such in that CRAZY world of trying to figure out how to control his drinking. That pattern just made me nuts.

    I recently bought Dominique’s book, where she has a page that talks about how if we focus on his addition and check up on him, he feels the vibe and it makes it worse. I have been trying to figure out how that fits in with my husband’s drinking thought I KNOW they are completely different.

    Anyway, worrying about what he is doing and trying to figure out how to control it will only make you feel out of control. Doing that for too long made me feel like I lost touch with myself.

    Oddly, this week hubby has had a cold and has not had a drop of liquor since last saturday. Interesting.

  415.  #415Starla on March 16, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    fw, he is indeed immature, even though he’s 40 years old. I’ve dealt with his BS for 5+ years…
    just venting.:)

  416.  #416Rori Raye on March 16, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Daria – I’m totally in the camp that if a man has ever hit you – never go there again. Rihanna is in a different situation – Chris Brown is in the spotlight, and if he ever touched her again – he’d be toast. If I were him, I’d be afraid to be in a relationship with Rihanna because she could say anything at any time – he has to constantly watch himself. I can think of no other man in that situation. If a man ever touched me in a way that felt out of anger – I’d be gone in a flash forever.

    About your anger – you are free to say how angry you are a zillion times – however – I’d really like you to look at what’s making you so angry and think about what shifts can you make on the outside as well as the inside to shift your anger into some other feelings you also have that are true? There’s sadness, there’s fear…there’s all kinds of feelings – even glorious bliss – that are hanging around next to the anger…it would be great if you could explore the blissful ones more and simply take the focus off the anger for a bit – and see how that feels to you.

    Like everything else, where we hang out, what we give energy to – grows. Love, Rori

  417.  #417Silver Moonbeam on March 16, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    #403 Siren Angel

    I can help!!!!

    I was just reading up the other day about getting rid of toner on google, maybe it’s the same for you???

    I had dark lowlights and light highlights, but she put a toner on the highlights and I now think my hair is too dark all over, this was 2 weeks ago and it’s not fading out as fast as I would like.

    So “they” recommend Herbal Essence clarifying shampoo which I just cannot find in my local shops or 3 parts lemon to 1 part conditioner, leave on hair for say 10 minutes and you can see the unwanted colour run out.

    I don’t know what kind of colour you have had and if it will work for you, but I am trying the lemon/conditioner mix tomorrow when I have some time……..

  418.  #418Rori Raye on March 16, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Jessie, as I say often – Daria is Queen of Riffing – and if anyone needs help in how to access and express the tough and rough stuff – she’s your girl…Love, Rori

  419.  #419Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    SM, thank you! Back home and I will try to lemony thing… it’s a dark brunette now. 2 weeks ago I went from very blond to dark auburn, brunette and now darker bc I really liked the brunette, but it came out so dark!!!

  420.  #420Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Clueless, M is the same with me and Rori told me he was outgirling me too! Sometimes I think he is vene frustrated when I ask him what he thinks. However, I have stuck by the rules and FMs and he now tells me I make him feel like a man. 🙂

  421.  #421Starla on March 16, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    SA, it will fade, don’t worry! I went almost black on the under-half of my hair, and it faded to deep auburn pretty quickly.

    also, don’t be scared to call you hairstylist and tell her you are so sorry for not saying anything sooner but you don’t like your hair and want to know if you can come back.

  422.  #422Starla on March 16, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    I texted CF to say i feel deflated from the bad stuff i’ve been through today. and he didn’t text back and now i feel self conscious, like i’m just a whiner and negative and a downer, and he is freaked that i will just be sad Starla tonight for our date.

    i want to lean forward and say “okay i feel better now!”

    but nooooooooooooooooooo i won’t lean forward yet again. actually i am going to send myself a lot of love. it’s okay. if he DOES actually feel weird, it’s because he thinks i expect him to fix it or something, and that’s not true, and he’ll see that in good time.

    i’ve been experimenting with venting to him, because i feel so self conscious and unworthy.

  423.  #423Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Starla, I did tell her and she said it will fade bc it’s a ‘rinse’. Also, she is a really good colorist, have been going to her for years. I just feel bad bc my hair was so gorgeous 2 weeks ago in a pretty auburn and now I feel like a goth.

  424.  #424Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    I will go up to the bathroom now and assess if I wash right away… I did get it blowdried too… but it’s too straight and strict. Maybe I’ll just curl the ends for now.

  425.  #425Dominique on March 16, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Actually Hopeful, it’s not so different. You cannot control him, and it’s not in YOUR best interest to check up on him around this in any way.

    If he comes home drunk or behaves in ways that feel bad to you, you deal with that in the moment.


    PS – My computer is dead so won’t be back on until sometime (hopefully) tomorrow. I’m borrowing my landlady’s right now, but I will have to go home in a bit. So please know if I don’t respond, I’m not ignoring you or anyone else.


  426.  #426Senior Lady Vibe on March 16, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @208: LoveAlways

    … and sometimes you just wanna go… 😛

    You might as well add that in…

  427.  #427Mel on March 16, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    About s*x…

    The other day, Mr. A was telling me that he actually found it “comforting” when I told him outright I don’t sleep with just anyone and I want a partner that feels the same way. He said he respected me a lot for waiting until I knew I was sure and I felt safe with him. He said our first time was special for him. *swoon*

  428.  #428Senior Lady Vibe on March 16, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Just to note:
    My words and actions are consistent. And my words and actions are consistent with my beliefs. And I admire myself for that.


  429.  #429Turquoise on March 16, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Rori Says:Daria – I’m totally in the camp that if a man has ever hit you – never go there again. Rihanna is in a different situation – Chris Brown is in the spotlight, and if he ever touched her again – he’d be toast. If I were him, I’d be afraid to be in a relationship with Rihanna because she could say anything at any time – he has to constantly watch himself. I can think of no other man in that situation. If a man ever touched me in a way that felt out of anger – I’d be gone in a flash forever.

    Rori, it would have been nice to be also addressed in this post, since she was talking about me and my life. This may not be the right place for me afterall, because I thought you believed that people can change, and heal and grow, and that is why we are here. And I may not be Rihanna…. but my ex could have lost his job and what happened definately hurt his career.

    I personally couldn’t forgive a man who cheated on me. I don’t believe someone puts their penis into another woman, and hasn’t considered the consequences. Yet there is encouragement here to forgive that. I don’t get it.

  430.  #430Starla on March 16, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Turquoise, I think that Rori just doesn’t read all the posts, not even close, and so her not mentioning you was laziness/time crunch, not her dismissing your place in the story.

    I know this because whenever I go into moderation (cussing), Rori addresses me all concerned that I just spew all garbage and need help:P. And from my posting here, we all know that’s not true. So obviously she’s not reading much of anything unless it goes into moderation. Daria must have gone into moderation with a very angry post or something.

    Also, I apologize for being up in everyone’s business.

  431.  #431Starla on March 16, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Plus, Turquoise – and this is totally selfish – I don’t want you to stop posting here!!

  432.  #432Jessie1000 on March 16, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    My boys are away with their dads (18 hours drive) and sometimes I wonder guiltily if Im a bad mother because I SOOOO enjoy a week to myself…lol. It feels so good not to cook…yesterday I had a chocolate bar for supper. I slept in with my friend this morning and when we woke up I felt so great that I didnt have to rush off to day care or fly to the mirror as I ran out the door, putting on snow pants, or barking at anyone to get ready cause we are late!
    I had time to read and no interruptions because Im studying for my first comp. exam for my phd. Usually it is start and stop all day.
    I didnt do dishes.
    I didnt have to put anyone to bed who really really wants to watch family guy….
    I didnt have to check the time cause I had no where to go.
    I didnt have to shop for groceries, hand out money for lunch, or sweep the floor.
    I didnt have to change my underwear because for some reason, mothers must put on a clean and mom tidy image but I just stayed in the house, slept in my gym clothes and decided to wear the same damn thing again today lol with a different cardigan!! lol
    My teenage son would have died if he saw that….lol
    I enjoyed thinking about my kids fathers having to tow to the demands of their boys, and having to make them suppers and put on their boots, and sit and watch boring kids shows with them lol
    I didnt even have to worry that my kids might see me smoking half a cigarette after supper or putting their muddy boots in my clean car.
    Lol I feel so rested. I feel unfrazzelled.
    I feel sexy as just me and not someones momma.
    I feel like drinking alot of coffee and doing two work outs in the gym cause I dont have to rush off anywhere.
    I feel like the eliptical and I like it when I put it on level 15 and my head starts to sweat
    I feel like having a long long bath and not answering the door to anyone cause no kids are here to get into an argument over who gets to have the puppy on their knee….lol
    I feel like Im 16 again and I just got my first sexy bra and I really wanted someone to check me out cause IM single and want some attention…lol
    I feel like driving around in my car and listening to the music way too loud.
    I feel like Im young and I could always go out of the house and go fishing cause I had no responsibilities and all the time in the world to kill.
    I feel like Im a genius since who has a life where all they have to do is read novels for a living?
    I feel like Im a genius because when I was 32 I was a high school drop out who couldnt get a job at mcdonalds *they told me to get my GED and now im studying for my doctorate.
    I feel like Im a genius because I never repeated my mothers patterns and when My husband told me he wasnt sure that he wanted to be with me anymore then I just left and never went back….I never want to be like my mother cause she was a dog for my daddy.
    I feel like im a genius because whenever I help people to find their way, they always end up happier and better off cause they knew me.
    I feel like Im a genius because my sons are big and beautiful and I did it all on my own without a soul to help me….including all those nights when they were sick or had bad dreams or peed the bed.
    I feel like I want to show my parents how fucking good I turned out and they didnt have a hand in anything that ive done….I did it all on my own. I feel like I want to scream in my mothers face and say why did you throw me out when I was only 15 just cause you thought your religion and your husband was more important than me?
    I want to take my life with all its blessings and throw it in her face and tell her see this? You helped me with none of it….you didnt call me .,…you werent there when my kids were born, you werent there when I got accepted to undergrad, or my masters or my phd….you didnt see me teach my first university class or see your grandsons lose their first teeth, you didnt lift a finger for me and all the good things i have …..seee this? ITS ALL MINE
    I have people that love me
    I have people that would die for me to protect me
    I have people who respect me and tell me Im the kindest person to children especially teenagers.
    My house not your house, my house is the place where people come to sit and leave their problems with me
    My house not your house, my house is the place where everyone will be fed and listened to and respected.
    I have people who would leave their wallets, their children, their prized posessions with me and they know that I would never harm anyone….can you say that mom????
    I have men that begged me to marry them mom….begged me but because of the shit you did to me…I was afraid to be in love
    I was afraid to let anyone close to me
    I thought if my mother didnt love me then who could love me????
    Im done with you and your rolling ur eyes at my degrees and telling me that the DEVIL Can you imagine that the DEVIL gave me good grades
    TRUST ME WOMAN!!! Im a genius and I didnt need to invoke any spirits to make me that way….I STUDIED my ass off with my kids on my knee
    I worked from morning to night
    I am a goddess of hard work cause I had no one since i was a teenager and I learned from the school of hard knocks and from your hatred that I have to work or im going to die
    I AM NOT YOUR CHILD anymore mom cause when I offered for you to visit your grandsons you told me no….
    I changed my heart then mom.
    Because you can hate me, and blame me and tell me i disappointed you for not keeping your FAITH if you call it that….but I will never count you as anyone when you turn on my children.
    DO you hear that mom? Cause IM ALL OVER YOU NOW
    ur a mom with out capitals
    ur a person that I left
    u didnt leave me …I left you
    I dont hurt no more mom cause you lost out more than I did
    all your abandonment did was make me better
    im better now mom
    i just take you as an old memory and I fade you away
    and when people ask you where am I and you close your mouth cause your ashamed of what you did now mom …now that your older and now your other children left you alone cause you hurt them too in different ways….
    tell them this
    tell them i died
    tell them i jumped off a cliff
    tell them you threw me out
    tell them you turned on your own flesh and blood
    tell them your weak
    cause i would never do that to my children mom
    so im better already than you

  433.  #433Hopeful on March 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Clueless – I would like to hear about a detailed example of a situation, and what you said (and how you said it) and what he said. Can you share one?

  434.  #434Starla on March 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    I am struggling to send myself love. I feel needy and exposed and stupid. And I believe I should be sending love to and accepting those parts of me. Because I’m not really needy or stupid, so if someone thinks that, it’s their own trigger, and if they are wise/smart they will realize they were mistaken.

    gosh i am feeling all tightened and balled up

  435.  #435Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Yay! I have a date! I’m going on a second date with Mr. Cop. I feel excited!

  436.  #436Iamabutterfly on March 16, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    So, I just found out that I’m an alpha female. LOL. I read this article and it made me feel so good and powerful! hehehe. 🙂


  437.  #437Starla on March 16, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Turquoise, I did some investigating through this thread, and I see that Daria asked Rori directly about her anger and also what she thinks (generically) about men hitting women. She didn’t mention your name at all. So that is probably what happened and why you weren’t addressed. Maybe you could write her about your specific situation, or ask her on the blog by posting with a different email address or talking about J*sus without censoring and you’ll go into moderation and she’ll definitely see it. I hope this helps you feel better=/

  438.  #438Femininewoman on March 16, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Turquoise I totally get how you must feel. It almost comes across as preferential treatment with you being sidelined. I can see both sides of the coin and hope that you continue posting.

  439.  #439Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Aww…Mel, that is so sweet. 🙂 (#427)

    You must feel the best to hear something like that. I remember you thought maybe it was too soon when you guys did that finally. Or it was sooner than you’d “planned,” but you felt like it, so you went for it. I am so glad it worked out for you…

    That is kind of what I had been hoping for with OM. There was a lot of build-up to that, in fact. He kept telling me how he actually would rather wait, and that he would even tell his friends to “wait” with their girlfriends. He wanted our “first time” to be special.

    And then…Friday happened. Ugh.

    But I am trying not to fault myself. In some ways, I DID just jump in and go for something. I was “ready” for it, over all – and we did not go “all the way.” It wasn’t sex. But in that moment, I was tired. It’s possible that I just wasn’t true to myself, and I am wracking my brain to figure out how I could have done that better, because even though I know I had other options, it seemed to me at the time that I *was* being true to myself. It wasn’t until afterward, and after things got too heavy, that I realized I was in over my head….

    Ugh. Poor me, I guess, not him. I keep trying to blame him. But really, in the end, I think I am the one who jumped the gun, and rushed things, for myself. And I really didn’t mean to. I am sure if I never said anything, it would not have been a big deal. It even *was* kind of special. He said so. And I felt that. But I am the one who got all worked up and made a big deal out of it. And now dating with him “won’t work.”

    Or am I the one who makes it “not work”?

    I’ve felt so angry, and wanted to call him such nasty things. But really, I am just as bad, and just as much at fault for what happened – or at least just as responsible for my actions. I could have prevented myself from getting to the point where I had no control. I could have made different decisions. But it’s over now.

    I just wish my guy had been as kind and understanding as Mr. A seems to be…but I guess he’s just not the kind of guy that I thought he was 🙁

    Oh well. Live and learn….

  440.  #440Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Dating OM has been worth THOUSANDS in therapy. Thousands, I’m telling you….

  441.  #441Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    i have all these beautiful text messages saved and voicemails from CF, like literally a hundred of them since about new years, full of sincere compliments and love. Maybe I should read them when I feel insecure.

    Also, this is about me, and not feeling permission to give myself the love and acceptance i need. Instead my urge is to seek external comfort from other humans. Which is okay, too!! But if I seek it and I don’t actually find it like I hoped, then I can’t just give up and abandon myself. Then I can just show MYSELF love and acceptance.

    I wish I had figured this out when I was a teenager. The last 10 years would have felt easier;)

  442.  #442Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    btw, I’ve been sad. I’ve missed gchatting with OM almost every day for close to a month, and that was about the first thing I missed – not looking at my phone and seeing his name and his cute messages there all the time…

    But today, I have outdone him – and even myself. At one point I had FOUR open chat windows – and they were all active at the same time. Ha!

    I guess if my ego needed to feel popular or loved, then I got that, for sure 😉

    Two of them were CDs that I actually chatted up. But even though it is “leaning forward.” It’s leaning away from OM, and distracting me from him – preventing me from getting too caught up in him and feeling like I should be communicating something to him.

    And inside I am using the tools. I am telling myself, “No matter what he says – I’m great.” And I am BELIEVING it. If he said any nasty things about me, THEY ARE LIES. And even if they are true for him, that doesn’t make them “true” about me. That is his perception. And perceptions can change. But “who I am” is the fabulous, wonderful person that I’ve always been. I am the amazing woman that he was starting to fall for. That he would do anything for. That he would drop everything and run for. THAT is who I am. And if he wants to tell himself anything different, then I can just know that he is telling himself lies. And maybe it makes me feel angry that he would tell himself lies like that about me. But just because he says it, DOESN’T mean that I need to believe it. 😉 haha

    Look at me. Inner pep talk. Hooray!

  443.  #443Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    367: Ella says:

    “So if I am CD-ing a man, as a friend, should he still pay??”

    I say, yes – mostly. Actually, I would say, if you are out meeting a man for a drink or for coffee, he CAN pay – even if it is not an official date. It is my experience that most men want to do this. The only exception here may be Australia, where I think it is more common for women to pay for themselves and allowing a guy to pay for you is essentially consent to sleep with him…. But I kind of like our grey areas better. I like it that the man doesn’t know *for sure* if he is going to sleep with you, just because he pays. But again, yes. Even if it a friend date, he can totally step in and cover the bill, and you don’t need to feel guilty. However, he should not be *expected* to pay. I’d say it needs to be his choice…so you could offer to pay for yourself and give him the chance to say no 😉

    What do you think?

  444.  #444Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    i also have absolutely nothing to do at work, so i am booooooored and have too much time on my hands.

    hmm what are things that cheer me up when i’m trapped at work?

    -putting money in my savings (online banking), lol, for some reason putting 10 bucks in there from my spending cash makes me feel f*cking good

    -window shopping online for jewelry

    -posting here with you beautiful, amazing, incredible, lovely ladies <3

    -hitting 'random' on wikitravel and daydreaming about traveling

    Things that make me feel worse (that i actually do sometimes when i have a lot of time on my hands):

    -looking at people's facebook profiles, especially exes!

    -arguing on this blog or with anyone

  445.  #445Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Ugh. I was thinking yesterday, after I realized I had such dangerously low self-esteem, that I should really take a break from guys and build up my self-esteem so that when I ‘get back out there’ dating, I won’t have to worry about it so much. I’ll be stronger, and I won’t let things get to me. I won’t run into the same problems, because I won’t be coming from a weak, unfulfilled place, if I feel that my basic needs aren’t being met (by me). Which is kind of how I feel right now.

    And yet…argh! The next thing I do is make conversation with several guys! What is wrong with me?? lol

  446.  #446Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Tiffany, I think going on low-pressure coffee/ice cream dates with men is great for the self esteem and a perfect opportunity to work with the tools in the context of actually feeling triggered. Really good work out to build self esteem muscles.

  447.  #447Turquoise on March 16, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Thanks Starla and FW, but I’m feeling pretty shut down. As if I’m wasting my time or energy on this unforgivable person, and that there must be something wrong with me to want to give the relationship another chance…. because obviously then, people really can’t change, so neither can I.

    In my experience, abuse is abuse is abuse. If it’s mental, emotional, verbal, physical, sexual; it all hurts and leaves a scar. I’ve given some of it myself. I’ve definitely shared some verbal, emotional, and even a little physical way back in the day, but if once an abuser always an abuser, then I have to consider that to be true of myself also. So what’s the point then?

  448.  #448Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    If Mr. Cop tries to kiss me with his tobacco-chewing mouth, I want to say no. Can you suggest a good feeling message for this please?

  449.  #449Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    I am too triggered to condone or discourage your wanting a relationship with C, because I have been physically abused by a long term partner.

    I feel powerless seeing you get down about what some internet stranger that you already don’t get along with very well on this blog said about your relationship desires.

    But I just wanted to send you some love and support:)

  450.  #450lk on March 16, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    STARLAAA do my work for me : ((( i’ve allowed myself to fall behind because i’ve been feeling depressed about my job & my coworkers’ dynamic… it’s making me feel really down to feel like we don’t have a “team” anymore… i feel like crying, actually!

  451.  #451Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    And when I say “some internet stranger that you don’t even get along with” i don’t mean that as a diss to Daria, but really really really generically, as it could have been anyone on this here anonymous internet.

  452.  #452Starla on March 16, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    aww, lk, i haven’t got jack sh*t to do and am about to go clean our office fridge, lol! What are you working on? straight up, i’d be happy to help if i can.

    if you have privacy in the bathroom go have a cry. feels niiice.

  453.  #453Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    I just practiced my dance sequence, and was thinking to myself about how I am fine. Just fine…all of this is okay. it’s going to be okay.

    And then K chatted me. Tehee! 🙂 (5 gchats 😉 )

    gah. I love boys!

    I might has well just admit it. I was too afraid to be “boy crazy” when I was younger. I thought that was just the obvious thing to do. But hey. I should just admit it. I don’t hate them! I like them! yay! 🙂

  454.  #454Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    This feels bad. Mr. Cop asked me out on Friday two days ago, but as of 5:50 pm, he still hasn’t set a time and place. He emailed me a couple times a little while ago. He said he would be done work at 5:30 or 6:00 pm, so I am going to give him 15 more minutes.

    I am NOT going to get into this pattern again with another man. I cut Ryan some slack, because of his illness. But no more. I am more than ready and more than deserving to be treated like a Siren.

    If I don’t hear from him in 15 min, I’m taking myself out on a date.

  455.  #455lk on March 16, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    gah can’t even tell you what i’m trying to do as it feels entirely too stupid. i’m feeling really angry because i feel it’s being done inefficiently & without involving the “right” people & without a real eye on the Big Picture. i feel pxssed. whatever. it’s my life & i choose to come here every day. 0_o sweet lk… i’ll try to find something else for you to do

  456.  #456sensual on March 16, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    feeling a bit better today. still a bit sad but not like yesterday. i believe these CDs will show up again but i don’t like the rubber band men they make me feel angry and i can’t welcome them if i feel angry….but i also feel like it’s weak on my boundaries to let a man come and go as he pleases especially after you’ve been kissing them or more.

    i got asked for lunch one day next week by someone new. not sure he’s my type but at least it’s something to look forward to

  457.  #457sensual on March 16, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    hmm how would a siren respond to a rubber band man….i don’t think she’d be angry, maybe she’d just play and feel happy in herself and with other men and he’d be falling all over himself trying to get her attention again because now he has lost her attention…because when you snooze you loose!

  458.  #458Jessie1000 on March 16, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Turquoise–I feel sorry when I hear you say that you cant change because I really think that women have a large capacity for adaptation and for gathering support from other women…like this blog. (Statistically men are often in a higher danger zone of permanent self-injury just because it can be more difficult when men get themselves into bad places emotionally and then do not have the social skills to seek out help and get it quickly thus causing self-destructive spirals)….however I think women are amazing and adaptive creatures, if they are so inclined. Remember that you are a woman and you have a genetic history passed down from your mother and her mother and all our ancestors that may give you a leg up higher than you know! If you are listening to rori and on this blog, you are already doing something about creating a new cocoon for yourself that is safe and filled with loving people who will continue to build your self esteem, help you heal, and sometimes even teach you to appreciate yourself in new and wonderful ways….any woman who can bring herself to stand tall in this difficult sometimes womanizing society where we are taught to be jewellery, or man-pleasers, or worse yet, invisibile, will at some point feel discouraged but also may be able to change their patterns in relationships (even if it arouses some discomfort)….when my lovely husband used to be nice to me…i mean really kind to me, it used to make me shake all over…it used to make me feel scared and overwhelmed and i wanted to run away from him because it changed my entire view of myself….my old beliefs that I was no good, and no fun, and not beautiful….these old beliefs had to go….and they were so FAMILIAR lol
    but now…I remember that person who used to think I was so awful and I cant even remember why I thought that because good people have consistently loved me and been reciprocal with me and praised and supported me and now I feel like how they treat me!!1
    Hope it helps cause you seem so good and sweet

  459.  #459Turquoise on March 16, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Thanks Jessie,

    I normally have a pretty decent opinion of myself, and have actually been feeling rather spectacular lately. My comment was based on a recent discussion here.

    I’m going to take a step back, have a great weekend everyone!!!

  460.  #460Tiffany on March 16, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I am in SUCH a good vibe right now. I know he can feel my good vibe. And he’s thinking about me…My silence is killing him. He doesn’t know what’s going on with me anymore. Since I am no longer predictable. He is thinking about what I said. and he is starting to take me seriously…wondering what’s going on. He’ll be afraid he might lose me if he doesn’t step up and be the man I need him to be…haha. tehee. That is because, no matter what, I am the Girl, and I am the Prize. 🙂

  461.  #461Starla on March 16, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Bye Turquoise, have a nice weekend:)

  462.  #462River Girl on March 16, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    441: Tiffany says:
    “Actually, I would say, if you are out meeting a man for a drink or for coffee, he CAN pay – even if it is not an official date. It is my experience that most men want to do this. The only exception here may be Australia, where I think it is more common for women to pay for themselves and allowing a guy to pay for you is essentially consent to sleep with him…. But I kind of like our grey areas better. I like it that the man doesn’t know *for sure* if he is going to sleep with you, just because he pays. But again, yes. Even if it a friend date, he can totally step in and cover the bill, and you don’t need to feel guilty. However, he should not be *expected* to pay. I’d say it needs to be his choice…so you could offer to pay for yourself and give him the chance to say no”

    Tiffany, I’m an Australian and I feel awful to read judgements about Australian men and women. What you wrote has not been my experience.

  463.  #463Starla on March 16, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhkaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy i have had nothing to do all day, and CF is coming to pick me up at 5:30, regular time i get off, and all of a sudden they want me to stay late!

    he drives an hour to get here! I told you people, if you want me to stay late, please give me an hour’s notice. don’t assume that on a friday night at 5:30 (when we close for business) that i won’t have somewhere to be.


  464.  #464Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Oooo Tiffany I’m with River Girl! Aussie men are not all like that at all.

    In saying that if an Aussie girl makes it clear she’s paying, then often he’ll let her. But they’re not sirens are they?

    My experience is that you often get what you expect – no matter where you’re from.


  465.  #465Butterfly Wings on March 16, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Oooo Tiffany I’m with River Girl! Aussie men are not all like that at all.

    In saying that if an Aussie girl makes it clear she’s paying, then often he’ll let her. But they’re not sirens are they?

    My experience is that you often get what you expect – no matter where you’re from.


  466.  #466Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 4:07 pm


    I would set a boundary with work too, and just say no. Not fair to ur man.

  467.  #467Starla on March 16, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Brenda, i actually told them that 1. the irony of it all kills me, because it only happens when my friend is driving an hour to come pick up and take me somewhere and 2. i really love being part of the team and i’m happy to help out as long as i can have enough notice (an hour or more). So it is likely that in 15 minutes, I will be able to leave:)

    I feel guilty though. I don’t want other people to stay late and suffer by themselves. But maybe next time they’ll give me some notice.

    and i am going to laugh if CF isn’t even here at 5:30 cuz of traffic or whatever:P

  468.  #468Starla on March 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    hah! i got the pass to go and cf is here too!

    ohhh thank you universe

    opening my heart reaaaaal big and going to melt in CF’s arms, have a nice night everyone!

  469.  #469Starla on March 16, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    oh yeah and he did end up texting me back when i vented to him earlier. he was sweet, and he said to remember there are nice people in the world, like me, hehehe how sweet. okay bye!!

  470.  #470Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    I took myself out to eat when I didn’t hear from Mr Cop. Then at 6:30 he emailed that he is still at work and should be done soon. I emailed where I was, leaving it open to offer to join me here.

    I feel anxious and dissed. Thinking of going to a movie theater so if he contacts me again, he totally sees that I’m not sitting home sad.

    I don’t want this treatment. Not smooth in dealing with it, but this is practice and I don’t want this to happen again.

    Also how do you handle it if a man wants to go to your house. Both times he asked to meet at my house.

  471.  #471Sirenity on March 16, 2012 at 4:24 pm


    I am sorry that you feel so unhappy about this. I noticed two posts where your own anger flare showed just a little.

    I wonder how you might feel owning that anger and riffing perhaps for a little ? Then moving back to good feelings?

    Some of the conflicted feelings may be because pushing away old patterns just doesnt work, you have to work through them in order to change. And two people who have an irritable style so easily ignite each other!

    I think its about what feels good . It may be that you and ex can live VERY happily as you are, ie from a distance not in the same house, he looking after you all but no need for daily eggshell walking, plenty of space between you then coming together now and then. This has seemed to make you happy without too much fear. Can this be enough?

    I feel concerned when I read fear tinged comments about him yelling or his irritable way of dealing with some stuff, because I can FEEL your little girl cringing when he does that. I also feel concerned when I read sweet T writing sarcastic comments .It makes me wonder how angry you really are! It would feel better to hear you writing a little like Daria who knows how to own her anger and feel it. The trick is to vent then know when to stop and find another feeling.

    In a similar vein Starla, you seem bright and very good at FMs . I do feel concerned when I read so many negative FMs though. I hope you are just leaving out lots of fun ones. Because i do remember coaches encouraging authenticity but not to drown a man in your negative feelings, not to hang them out all over him.

    AS for me I am an imperfect siren who is really sick today ..UUUGH .

    I feel exhausted and my head feels like a football.
    I feel sad that I cant go on my date tonight.
    I feel relieved I dont have to look pretty for anyone today (my head LOOKING like a football too 🙂 )

    I feel anxiety over Turquoise ‘s situation because as I have mentioned previously I believe it is very difficult to overcome abuse cycling in relationships . The patterns are deep and unconscious . It may be possible but I dont feel good about it.

  472.  #472Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm


    Good for you. I have found I get more respect with employers in the long term when I hold my boundaries.

  473.  #473Ella on March 16, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    So I picked up the phone to MWC at 5pm this afternoon, he first called about 4pm.

    And he was all like ‘oh so what are you up to later?’

    And I was like ‘oh, when I didn’t hear from you I made other plans’

    Him ‘oh’ sounding disappointed. ‘I’m not working’

    Me ‘Oh I feel really disappointed, when I did not hear from you I assumed you were working and made other plans’

    Him (still sounding kinda put out ‘oh ok then’ Then he said don’t worry and he would see me soon.

    He was ok..

    He asked if he can call me later and I said yes although I was unsure where I would be.

    A bit after he text that he was sorry he did not call me in time and he misses me.

    Ok fine.

    But now it is 11.30pm and he never did call.

    WTF?? !!

    I feel exhasperated.

    Why say you are going to do something and then not do it.

    And ok I was out on my CD so was not phone watching… but still WTF dude ??


    Grrr, I feel so angry and annoyed right now.

    Not least because I did/do want to see him.

    But I can’t / won’t accept flaky behaviour and I still feel weird about the drinking stuff.

    Date was ok.

    I still feel NOTHING.

    I just feel blank… and a bit bored.

    And not attracted.

    So that was that.

    He bought me a nice meal though.

    I feel so ungrateful… and I suppose I just want my man crack?

    But I am not going to berate myself for wanting to feel excited.

    I honestly don’t believe I could ever be with the kind of man who I just feel so luke warm about (not even really warm at all).

    There MUST be some middle ground.

    Ie: exciting but not an addict… or other toxic man.

    Going for a bath now.

  474.  #474Siren Angel on March 16, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Happy M has got a cozy indian food and movie and snuggle and sex evening planned out for us 🙂

  475.  #475Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    I feel fed up with bad treatment from men. I guess I was officially stood up by an ex officer.

    He is separated and that’s probably why he wanted to meet at my house. Is that excusable when first getting to know a man?

  476.  #476Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    I have devised a new definition for Circular Dating: The process of dating many men for the purpose of learning how to communicate gently with a$$holes so you aren’t routinely treated like shit.

    Just wanna remind you I hate dating.

  477.  #477Brenda on March 16, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    I feel like crying, but my heart feels paved with concrete.

  478.  #478Sirenity on March 16, 2012 at 5:25 pm