3 Options If You’re With A Man Who Doesn’t Love Love You

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angerThe Question:

“Rori, I have been dating Don for seven months. He makes me feel like the focus of his life. In fact he says he thinks of little else but me all day long. He takes me out often, pays for dates, and we have a lot of passionate cuddles.

We haven’t had sex, although there is a strong attraction between us. I told him it felt right to get to know each other first and he has respected that. I love the feeling of being with him and engaging my deep feminine side with his masculine.

I am glad we haven’t had sex just yet because I want to be sure we can have a healthy relationship first. There is something that spoils the picture for me just now.

I feel good about myself in his presence. My worries arise when he expresses his jealous nature. The other day we were talking about a musician who was coming to visit. Don looked at me sternly and commanded “Don’t you flirt with him“.

This felt like a good time to assert my boundaries.

I replied firmly “I don’t want to be told what to do and what not to do.” then I added lightly “I like to flirt with everybody.” He said “You’d better not.” I asked “Why, what will happen?” He said “You’ll find out.” I asked, “Don’t you want me to be myself?” He went quiet.

I guess time will tell if I can assert this boundary to good effect. I don’t want to feel controlled. I don’t want to feel like I can’t be myself. I don’t want to feel scrutinized or stifled.

Rori, do you feel that this would become a toxic relationship? Or can I turn his insecurities around by honoring healthy boundaries for myself?

I feel that he worships me, but grudgingly! Have you encountered that attitude in a man before? It’s like he makes sweeping statements about women (“They’re all conniving,” for example).

Love, April

My Answer:

April – logistics are the key here…AND TALKING!!!!

Can you talk with the man you live with?

Really sit down and sayI love you beyond words…and I don’t feel loved at least as much…what should we do? I can’t continue to live with you and yet free my heart to be in a relationship with a man who loves me, what shall we do?

In other words – one of you has to start talking. Please think about it.

Yes, this is all very painful – there’s no way around that.

Letting go of of some of our dreams in order to allow other dreams to come true is painful – and yet – we each have to ask ourselves what we really want.

If we’re invested in what we certainly DON’T want – even as we hope and hope that will change – we let the days slip by with the dreams of what we DO want.

There Really Are Only 3 Ways:

1. Stay where you are and keep getting what you have (and I always recommend trying this with my TOOLS first…)

2. Dropping what you have cold, no contact, moving on with a plan

3. Both. Stay where you are logistically, and date other men seriously as well.

You’re trying to do this – but it’s challenging because your HEART and habits and mind are still in place #1.

The secret to #3 is your mental attitude.

If you can change that, you can make effective change, where #3 doesn’t seem quite so awful, or #1 changes.

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Hot tottie on April 9, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    I feel so sad. My boyfriend of 11 months broke up with me on the eve of our anniversary. I’d say he was the best bf I’ve had thus far. I’ve been using all the tools and was pleasantly surprised, I received more from this relationship than I ever had with any other. However I feel frustrated because his reasons for the breakup was that I wasn’t supportive, I didn’t call him enough and I always say feel. He suggested I see a speech therapist for this. I feel like in one way my tools backfired. He said I never give him advice and that I needed to be a bit more motherly to him. I feel so confused. I tried not criticizing, not initiating calls and not leaning forward but I feel crushed he took it as I didn’t care for him however I cherished him deeply. After months he called me apologizing and asked me on a date. I agreed. Worse date Eva! Basically told me every thing I did wrong and tried to push me to say negative stuff about him. After I stuck with the feelings messages and didn’t attack he said he wanted a women who was a bit&$. And told me about this girl who recently rejected him but he liked it. I feel so annoyed even writing this but I keep beating myself up for not using the tools right. Btw after 6 months of dating he told me he was heavely addicted to rx painkillers. The week we broke up he was trying to detox. Also he gave me a std. Any advice?

  2.  #2Indigo on April 10, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I feel a bit confused by this advice. To me, it does not seem as if Don does not “love” April enough, it seems as if he is triggered to jealousy by insecurity or some issue. This is not April’s business to sort out, only to take care of herself, but I don’t get the feeling that the problem is a lack of love?

  3.  #3Femininewoman on April 10, 2015 at 10:37 am

    I don’t know how I would handle option 3.

  4.  #4victoria on April 10, 2015 at 10:39 am

    I think the question and the answer do not match, probably a technical mistake.

  5.  #5RileyTheOwl on April 10, 2015 at 11:02 am

    He just texted me saying “don’t forget about my lock :p”
    I feel angry,
    I don’t want to be responsible for his stuff!
    I feel protective of myself,
    I feel my barriers coming up,
    a simple text triggers such a reaction in me.

    He sent that this morning,
    I feel mischievous because I haven’t answered yet, hehe:)

    being honest with myself, I was hoping that the next time I heard from him it would be something better feeling. like asking how I am. I don’t WANT to be wanting contact from him.

    I don’t want to be waiting for a text from him!

    I want to be floating away happily towards a better sunny place 🙂

    Should I even answer him?

    It feels weird to read that text, so strange and distant feeling.

    His bike lock is at my dad’s house and I feel uncomfortable both with going back to my Dada and with going to get it for C, because I really don’t want to do things for C right now. Is it unreasonable to as. X to get it himself? He lives 2 minutes away from my dad.

  6.  #6RileyTheOwl on April 10, 2015 at 11:03 am

    *Dad’s not dada, lol auto correct makes me sound like a two year old 🙂

  7.  #7April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:17 am

    Indigo and Veronica,

    You are very clever detective sirens!!!!

    Indeed the answer does not match the question. The original answer was about respecting a man and not insisting on flirting with others. Rori even asked me “How would you feel if he was asserting his right to flirt with women?”

    Hmm, I think I should let Rori know.

  8.  #8Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 11:20 am

    I feel scared that a man with that attitude is abusive. It sounds extreme, especially when they haven’t had sex yet…

  9.  #9April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:27 am


    I have learnt sooo much since asking Rori the above question.

    I was stuck in a mindset of asserting my right to do what I liked.

    Nowadays, if a man said to me “don’t you flirt with him” I would be delighted!

    I guess that is me making baby steps in ‘choosing relationship’.
    Yay! I feel happy that I’ve made progress. I feel all cuddly of myself and wanting to reward myself with a cake!!!

  10.  #10April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:30 am

    Now that I know more of what I want, I feel turned on by men who can be confidently in charge.

    To me “don’t you flirt with him” is a bit like when a man says “you’re mine”. It gets me feeling all passionate inside. I love to feel desired and pursued and like a man wants to claim me.

  11.  #11April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Wow, my juices are really flowing here.

    This question is three years old.

    My new date has said to me “I don’t do jealousy”. In a way, I feel relieved. In another way, I’m thinking “Oh, so how are you going to try to claim me then?”.
    I wonder if he considers himself possessive? And what the difference is between that and jealousy.

    He has jokingly said “you’re mine” in a semi-passionate moment.

  12.  #12April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:35 am

    I meant my mental juices! 😉

  13.  #13Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 11:47 am

    I like a man to be a little jealous, but threatening me if I flirt with someone seems over the top.

  14.  #14April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:48 am


    You may remember I tried option 3. I really went for it in seeing another man. My mistake was that it should have been other MEN.I ended up oscillating between the two. Rori recommends at least three.

    In the end I took option 2.

  15.  #15April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 11:51 am


    Yes, I remember the threat. It was kind of playful yet said in a serious way. He like to play that ‘John Wayne’ kind of role. I found it cute at the time.

  16.  #16nyx on April 10, 2015 at 11:57 am

    We do not have all the details here, only one person’s view. We do not know how this woman “flirts”, as for some flirting means smiling and have a lot of eye contact, for others it means kissing and making out…
    If I was interested in a guy who was flirting very aggressively with other women, I would constantly feel uncomfortable about it. Asking him to refrain from that would not mean I am inclined to abuse anyone…

    I like to think that some jealousy is fine, as in “I do not want you to tell me i cannot hug male friends, but neither do I want you to shrug indifferently if another man pinches my ass”. 😉

  17.  #17nyx on April 10, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    HAHA sorry, was that YOU, April Rose asking? Then we can ask you how you flirt 😉

    Sorry, the comments showed up here late for me. I agree- I think a little jealousy should be there… and that people ALWAYS show with some time what they are. How did he turn out to be?

  18.  #18Iris on April 10, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    @Indigo, #1 I totally agree.

    @April Rose, #8 Kudos to you on recognizing your growth! And I feel the same way about feeling a bit delighted that the man be a little jealous.

    The funny thing is many men I met say, “I’m not a jealous person,” and they tend to really be. It’s like if they make the extra effort to say they’re not a jealous type as a way of convincing myself.

    I, myself, am and the jealous type, and I often tell the men I have dated straight up. That is where my work is–not being run by own jealous, but also accepting and loving that part of me. Baby steps, yes!

  19.  #19Iris on April 10, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    *convincing himself

  20.  #20April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 1:31 pm


    Interesting question. My flirting style is in smiling and paying someone some focussed attention. And, in a way, I do this with almost everyone – man, woman and child.

    I have been somewhat confused about what flirting is. When flirting with men it’s as if I am showing very subtly with my body language that I am attracted to them. There is an unspoken thought that I might desire a more intimate connection. In my case it stays as a private thought. So, the man would wonder if I was just being friendly or if I wanted more.

    What’s your style?

  21.  #21April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    I need to rant and riff.

    I feel so angry. So tired. So bored. So utterly like screaming out loud.

    This is leaking out onto a man who behaves impeccably with me.

    Aaargh. I hate it that he is so mild and loving and boring.

    Where is the drama???
    No, I’m not missing the drama.

    I am missing some umf.

    I am missing some PASSION.

    I want Passion. Thank goodness I can see that and say that I want it.

    I am not ready to be like an eighty year old lady. Gosh, even they can know and enjoy passion.

    I feel deep down cross with myself, with my hopes that this time it was going to be juicy and right.

    Ooooohh. Aaaarrrghhhhhhh.

    There is a lot of intensity in my body, in my muscles, in my desire to be matched in physical and emotional and spiritual passion.

  22.  #22April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    He texted to ask if it was a good time to call. I said ok, and be warned I am feeling tired and grumpy.

    He called. I felt angry towards him. I was impatient in my tone of voice.

    I have lost the joy of openness and of expressing myself in feeling messages.

    I just feel so exhausted.

    He is driving home from a week away, tomorrow, and is looking forward to seeing me. He asked if he could call round. I asked him what he thought we might be doing, so I would know what to wear.
    He isn’t planning anything. He said “I just want to see you”.

    WELL WHAT ABOUT WHAT I F*CKING WANT? I want to be taken out. I want to be treated to a bit more specialness. I am tired of the low level passion and just ‘hanging out’.

    How do I ask for more?
    Or is it that if I am wanting more, then it is not the relationship for me?

  23.  #23Femininewoman on April 10, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    April Rose how about looking at your communication and changing that with him.

    “I’d love to experience the sun kissing your face/my face on the green lawn of……….”

    “I feel most alive when I am …………………….”

    Weave something in there that includes him out in the open outdoors. Remember this is experimenting so I’d suggest changing the words you use.

  24.  #24Indigo on April 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    April Rose,

    What does passion mean to you? To you personally?

    For me, I’ve found that my passion with a man lasts when he is able to consistently inspire that feeling inside of me, rather than create it for me.

  25.  #25April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    It all seems like so much work and effort.

    On the phone just now I got into my poetry and I described a scene where I met a horse, and I was saying how the horse felt.

    He jumps straight in with tales of horses he has seen, without so much as a breath in between.
    Meanwhile, I am gently lingering in the scene I have just described, feeling the wind and smelling the grass. It feels too fast and too abrupt to have that pulled away from my mind’s eye by “oh, yes and my similar story, blah blah back to me blah blah”.

    I feel sidelined, and f*cking angry when that happens.

    I am starting to build up a resentment.

    I can’t bring up all the things that bug me, can I? I would sound like a relentless complainer.

    For f*cks sake, I know this is me being sensitive, very sensitive. I am the first to agree that I have very particular ways.
    Can any man fit in with those? I’m not hopeful at this moment in time.

  26.  #26Liquid Light on April 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    Lovergirl 12, I agree. Reminds me of my ex. Ughh. Creepy. And scary.

  27.  #27April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    If someone is going to jump in on my poetry then they have no idea of who I am. And so why waste my time with them. I am angry now with myself for not moving on and saying “next”.

    Although the next one will just as likely trigger me in one of my sensitivities.

  28.  #28Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    So S texted me today, after almost 3 days not speaking. He wanted to know what I am up to and I told him I was at a rental car place because my van is in the shop. He made a joke about it being time for a joyride and I said “I know right? ;)” Then he wanted to know how long I have the rental for. I said just today, that is all AAA covers (which is true, though the other guy is getting me another rental when I come back from Chicago on Sunday).

    So he starts texting about how he needs to go shopping and get some new stuff (for his business). I know that he is working up to asking me to come with him. I haven’t responded.

    I don’t know what to say. I love shopping with S and he always takes me out somewhere to eat when we do. However…
    1. I will be in Chicago tomorrow… and
    2. I told him I didn’t want to be doing stuff for him while he is seeing another woman.

    He could easily interpret that as its still okay to take me along shopping. That’s more “fun” and something he doesn’t generally pay me for. We are just hanging out together.

    I think if I wasn’t going to Chicago it would be very tempting, though it would still be in the being “friends” realm. I really don’t want to have to explain to him that I will be in Chicago this weekend either. Not trying to rub it in any more.

    So, I just haven’t answered at all when he said he needs to go shopping. I feel rude….

  29.  #29April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 3:11 pm


    I’m wondering if you can maybe be quite matter-of-fact about this. And say something like “I’m going to be out of town this weekend.” and, if he presses you for information, don’t take the bait.

    Maybe say something along the lines of “It feels weird and awkward to give details of my personal life to a man who I have feelings for, but who is not my partner. I’d like to request you not to ask me about my personal life. Can you respect that?”

  30.  #30April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 3:18 pm


    Here is one of my favourite compatibility-indicating tests. It is based on communication and sexual styles. All you need is your birthdate and the birthdate of the other person. It’s free to use at the moment.


  31.  #31April Rose on April 10, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    I just took the Inner Mean Girl Archetype test. Results as follows:

    “April, your highest scoring Archetype is: Perfectionist with a score of 28.

    Here’s more about your most lethal Inner Mean Girl:

    The Perfectionist is the highly critical and often harsh, picky, or sharp critical inner authority figure whose job is to point out everything you’re doing wrong or that doesn’t measure up to her perfectionist standards. She makes you procrastinate, give more energy and time to a project than is necessary, and obsess over the smallest details that don’t matter.”

    This seems to extend to others, in particular the unfortunate man who has feelings for me. 🙁

  32.  #32Beloved on April 10, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    April Rose – I believe he is reflecting a negative belief what you say isn’t that important, or you don’t deserve to be heard, or maybe what you say isn’t very interesting.
    I used to experience a lot of similar interactions with an ex until one day, I interrupted a wonderful friend of mine and she said “let me finish!” with this big, beautiful smile on her face and a vibe that felt wonderful. So I started doing that myself whenever I was interrupted and it hasn’t been an issue since.
    I mean, I would have massive, major fights with my ex over feeling constantly interrupted and talked over until I started doing this…and it was just over after that. He still interrupted me – and – I stopped feeling upset about it and told him to let me finish and he always would. He actually would smile, lean back, and listen when I did that, he was thrilled that I found a way to de-fuse the trigger.

  33.  #33Beloved on April 10, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    The key, I believe, was that my friend didn’t make me wrong for interrupting her and I could *feel* that.

  34.  #34Beloved on April 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    On further reflections, this actually doesn’t feel right – “I believe he is reflecting a negative belief what you say isn’t that important, or you don’t deserve to be heard, or maybe what you say isn’t very interesting.”

    I’m feeling maybe you just didn’t know how to or didn’t know it was okay to interrupt back. A feeling message might be – I feel like I want/need to finish what I’m saying 🙂

    It might not seem like a sireny thing to do, and, I have had nothing but positive responses to it. I’ve been using this for over 10 years and never never not once ever had anyone react with anything but a positive response. Even in the heat of anger.

  35.  #35Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 7:53 pm

    I haven’t caught up on comments tonight.. just about to go to bed..

    I really would like to be normal and flirty with Avocado right now – as if there is no pressure, it’s fine to not know what he wants.

    But I am mad! I feel LET DOWN! He offered for me to stay at the apartment, and has confirmed that I could, multiple times, but NOW he has to “think about it” last night?

    This morning when he dropped off our child he was late to work, and I haven’t heard a word from him since.

    And back to the ignoring me if I text.

    What do I do with this hot and cold behavior!?

    And what do I do when I’ve been COUNTING on him to come through if I couldn’t find anything? The reason I can’t find anything is because no one wants to live with children!

    So I’d LOVE to go back to being light, easy, and flirty, but I’m feeling let down here….

  36.  #36Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    FW 341 Previous post:
    From Bob Grant:
    “What you want is for him to “FEEL” what you’re saying.
    When you want to emphasis a point – speak slowly, softly and look directly into his eyes. I promise, whatever you say, he’ll feel it.”

    Good advice that I need to follow a LOT more often. It’s been a great accomplishment for me to slow down because I feel so anxious so much of the time. Now I feel I’ve been much more relaxed… and I feel I can be so much more effective when I am feeling at peace with everything. Prayer/faith and seeing how I’ve been provided for in the past really helps with this. In any case, slowing down movements, speech, everything, helps. I’ve been also working on being bolder and shutting down the anxiety and looking into eyes when I’m speaking. unapologetic, open hearted, and very authentic … Thanks for always posting such good links/advice/thoughts FW.

  37.  #37Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    342 Labbit:

    >>I remember you mentioning a couple of weeks ago that Avocado had talked about buying a place for you all to live together. So even though he’s backed off from that at this moment, it sounds like he cares about you very much.>> Yes, I hope so.

    >> I agree with Femininewoman that he might be feeling pressure or afraid to lose his freedom, especially as your conversation with A drifted into more serious topics like marriage, etc.>>

    Yes, I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it, I probably should have asked him what he was getting at asking “so you just want to buy a house..is that all?”…before I answered. Anything can be fixed by leaning back though, right?

    >>A man commits when he feels like you ADD to his life.>> Agreed. I am not feeling sure of what I add to his life, other than sex, affection, emotional connection, devotion – I don’t feel it’s anything he couldn’t get somewhere else.

    >>>when the thought of losing you stirs up fear in him;>>
    I don’t know what would make him feel this way. We’ve never had a verbal agreement to an exclusive relationship, which he complains about (yet he would never agree when I brought it up years ago).
    But, we’ve gone thirteen years with him out of the state/country most of that, where we had our own lives, (but still had sex with each other when he was around, if it was appropriate to my circumstances). (while we had our separate lives, he NEVER said one word about any other woman, except when he broke up with one he was serious about. He even hid it when he brought a girl home for thanksgiving once, and STILL came to see me and have sex.) Much of the time we were close and at times would talk every day…. But, I’ve been in a several years long relationship now (while still seeing A at times)- and since MILW and I have been separated, I’ve been dating plenty of men, but Avocado doesn’t know anything about that. He doesn’t seem worried about occupying my time. … After this many years he probably also assumes I’ll just “be there” if he happens to be more interested later. I don’t feel like he’s afraid of losing me.
    What will stir that in his heart?

    >>Your job is to create positive moments and experiences when you and Avocado are together. And you need to do this WITHOUT leaning forward, without trying to manipulate things. When he comes towards you — and he will — you make sure you’re at your open, most vulnerable, most feminine best.>>
    >>I had this so WRONG for many years…when I felt hurt I would close down my emotions, and then when my man would try and come towards me I’d snap at him or get angry.>>>
    That’s how I feel, – I want to shut down and be angry. But when he comes toward me am I wanting to be open and vulnerable and PLEASED, or share my honest feelings of being let down here? Is it ok for him to just … drop the ball when he promised me help? And I should just let it go because he owes me nothing? Share a FM with him, or let it go?

    >>But a big part of our feminine mystique, the power that we have as women, is in learning how to be open and vulnerable even when we feel hurt. In those moments of hurt, allowing a man to still reach in and touch our hearts is unspeakably powerful and bonds him to us in a way no other woman could ever touch…IF he wants us. If he doesn’t want us, no amount of openness or vulnerability could ever forge a spark on a burnt-out match.>>>
    I do feel that my feeling messages often touch him in a powerful way lately. I feel that is a big reason why we’ve become much closer this year.

    >>>I cringe a bit at the idea of you living him with him right now…he’s pulling away, trying to create space between you in that energy bubble you share. Living with him complicates your ability to lean back…and wouldn’t it feel awful if you were ‘home’ at night and he wasn’t? That would drive me absolutely NUTS…I’d be worried about where he was and who he was with, hardly able to be my best feminine self. And not taking care of him, or cooking him dinner, or doing things you might want to if you’re in a relationship, that only dulls the spark further.>>>>

    Yes, I just don’t seem to have any other option at this point. Or any option at all, if he isn’t even brave enough to get back to me about it.

    >>If you continue to live separately you can work on creating sparks when you’re together, so that he sees you as that safe haven, the place he always wants to come home to. I feel scared you’d make that much harder by entering into a shared living situation he’s not totally on board with (and I don’t feel you are either).>> Yes… That feels good and I suppose you’re right, I mean I kind of feel this way also. I have wondered though, if it might help just because we’ve wanted to a few times in the past and it hasn’t happened, and I wonder if we would end up feeling like it was just the right thing. But I guess not until he’s coming toward me again.

    Thanks Labbit, I am very much valuing your input and advice… I feel like I can’t think sensibly with him sometimes lately. All Sirens guidance throughout this is very appreciated!!!!

  38.  #38Rori Raye on April 10, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Hot – everything you say sounds to me like you dodged a bullet! What about this man that you wrote could possibly be appealing to you? Love, Rori

  39.  #39Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    343 Indigo:
    I am feeling concerned that you are hoping that living together will fix everything, that it will “knock the other woman out”, in your words. In my humble opinion, this is leaning forward.>>>

    I am not doing it to make anything happen, yet I do think it’s a very strong possibility this is what would happen.

    >>> I have to ask how it feels for you to be having sex with him when he is seeing someone else?>>>

    I’ve gone through a lot in the past including a lot of this in situations where I didn’t really have a choice to leave or stay, and also where boundaries are blurred in a very open community to begin with, with lots of open relationships. However mine was not – but it’s ebbed and flowed with all sorts of ideas.
    I don’t like that he’s spending time with someone else, but I also feel that sex is not what changes a man’s mind on it’s own. I can feel from him and see in his eyes that he truly has feelings for me. That he’s conflicted. We’ve gone through 13 years of him always returning to see me, trying to start a relationship with me, apparently, trying to get me to live with him a few times. He became close with me last year at this time, and now again this year. Spending more and more time together, sex, etc. He clearly sees something in me that attracts him very much, and which he is still desiring and open to having. But yes it bothers me that he is spending time with someone else because I like being his FIRST choice.

    I will try this, unless he gets back to me about staying together.. and I will only know how to respond to that once he speaks to me about it.

    Until then I will keep quiet for a bit and if he contacts me maybe even say I need to just have a few days to think. And work on creating good moments.
    I am angry that I feel let down when he offered help and I need it now, but I guess he has the right to change his mind, and I have the whole universe, not just him, so really why worry about it? And maybe that attitude will allow him to feel safe, that I’m not demanding anything from him.

    But I’m not even sure I want to do ANYthing with a man when I feel like he’s not even being brave enough to TELL me what he feels, and he doesn’t know what he wants, and he promises me help and wants to look like the good guy all the time, but then he falls through when I really need him this time.

    >>>You asked how we Sirens would handle living and sleeping with a man knowing he was giving a lot of attention to another woman. I would not handle it. I would make a boundary out of it. I feel it’s really the only way to look out for yourself.>>>
    Thank you! Yes, I would not handle it either, however I was considering how I might handle being there in the case that I end up with no other options.

    Thank you so much for your reply Indigo!!!

  40.  #40Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    346 LoverGirl:

    >>I would be REALLY leery of living with him. It may very well make him feel resentful of you and that is the LAST thing you want.>> I feel that way also, which is why I was considering what would happen if I have no other options and am forced to stay there at a time when he was not fully desiring it, and how I could lean back heavily while there.

    I’ve been looking for quite a while and have found nothing that I can afford on my own, or roommates that will live with kids. But I am still working on finding another place to be for now, if at all possible.

  41.  #41Silver-Tongued Siren on April 10, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    348 Beloved:
    >>>Silver Tongued Siren – if you can use your feeling messages to enlist him in assisting you with the solution to your living situation, rather than seeing him as the solution, you might be able to engage and connect with him.
    “I feel scared and at a loss about our living situation. I feel I have nowhere to go and nowhere to turn. I don’t want to put any pressure on you or our relationship, and, I feel really scared and uncertain. I don’t know what to do here, what do you think?”>>>>

    THANK YOU Beloved! I think that is a GREAT idea!!! Thank you for giving me a little script, also. That is exactly what I’m feeling… <3 I do feel that I've exhausted my options as far as places to look for housing, and not sure what he'll have to offer. I would hate to turn down any of his ideas or should he not have any – I don't want it to be a blow to his ego not being able to help. … what do you think about that? What if he offers an idea that I can't take? (ie, living out of town with his family or something).

  42.  #42Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 11:07 pm

    April Rose (29)-

    I just left him hanging. :p It had been so long that it seemed better just not to text at all. If he texts or calls tomorrow I may have to say something like that…though if I say I am out of town he will know exactly where, since I mentioned it previously.

    I figure I spared him the embarrassment/rejection of asking me to hang out and me saying no. I’d rather just be a little mysterious if at all possible.

    I feel guilty going to Chicago without S. I know I shouldn’t, but I do. I feel sad that its not with him. I’d so much rather it be with him. :/

    Part of me wants to tell him that, if he tries to get me to see him tomorrow. I am not sure if that is more overfunctioning (trying to make him feel better about it) or a feeling message. :p I’m really hoping he WON’T try to hang out though, because I don’t want to have to explain myself or where I am at and think about it hurting him in any way.

  43.  #43Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    April Rose (31)-

    Interesting test. My “inner mean girl” is the “invincible superwoman”

    your highest scoring Archetype is: Invincible Superwoman with a score of 24.

    Here’s more about your most lethal Inner Mean Girl:

    The Invincible Superwoman puts the weight of the world on your shoulders and doesn’t let you set it down, no matter how heavy it gets—because she thinks you should be able to handle it. Her job is to keep you feeling and looking strong, never showing any weakness. She makes you do everything on your own and take on way more responsibility than humanly possible.

    Yes, very much. I feel the pressure to be superwoman but I don’t feel like her at all. I hate when people say “I don’t know how you do it!” (this gets said a lot when you have 5 kids…) It just makes me more overwhelmed thinking of all the things I should be doing but am not.

  44.  #44Lovergirl on April 10, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    I’m feeling slightly amused. I was looking at S’s business website, that I have the password to, because I was just curious how he was doing and I normally check it daily to see what is selling. One of the products he sells is geared towards women and is mostly bought by young women/teenage girls.

    Sometimes when they email him they get really frustrated with him and call him “rude”. I have told him before this is because his demeanor is kind of abrasive and he seems like he just likes to tell people “no”. I’m like 10 times more tactful, so sometimes its better when I deal with them.

    Anyway, it is just a reminder to me that he would drive a lot of women crazy. Somehow that makes me feel relieved. 😉

  45.  #45Indigo on April 11, 2015 at 12:11 am

    Beloved 32,

    I do this when people interrupt me – say in a firm, calm voice which lets them know that I’m not cross but I do want to be taken seriously, “Let me finish.” I have done this with men on the phone too, and you usually only have to say it once.

    They usually smile and get this bewildered but pleased look on their face. I believe that everyone is more comfortable with proper boundaries.

  46.  #46nyx on April 11, 2015 at 3:12 am

    Hi, April Rose

    I think my flirting style is similar to yours, maybe more withdrawn, which I would like to change- I often notice that people find it extremely easy to start talking with me, since I seem open and friendly but I somehow cannot convey to guys I like that I am interested. I feel too shy and nervous and close down a lot…

    Your way of flirting is nothing any man in any way should be upset about…

    Have a lovely day 🙂

  47.  #47Femininewoman on April 11, 2015 at 4:19 am

    Hot as far as I am concerned anyone addicted to anything is likely not able to commit. I know it is a sweeping generalization but this guy reminded me of that. He seems he needs you to do drama to get addicted to something else around you.

  48.  #48April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Thank you Beloved,

    I like your “let me finish” tool.

    Thing is, I am pretty quiet in our dynamic. He does most of the talking, and says himself he probably talks too much. So, I get pretty disgruntled when he steps over the poetic images I am creating.

    I suppose not everything I say is as wondrous to other people as I think it is!!
    Although I have noticed that when I share something authentic from deep within myself, there is more listening from others.

  49.  #49HeartBeat on April 11, 2015 at 7:26 am

    Dear Siren Island,
    I feel so relieved to be near you.
    I feel hot and frazzled and curious.
    Tonight I spoke to a man- that’s all, talking.
    But he moved closer and closer. He engaged me over and over. And as simple as this sounds, I find myself sitting here writing to you and I can feel my heart racing.
    I’ve had millions of conversations with men, yet tonight I really experienced for the first time (EVER IN MY LIFE) a man moving towards me, with romantic intention, and I didn’t move forward, dance away or distract.
    I stayed steady and grounded and soft.
    And yet my insides are still shaking.
    I found myself editing myself slightly, cooling down my language because somewhere inside I sensed that had I spoken my real feeling messages, “I feel soft, I feel excited, I feel thrilled.” he may have sprung across the table at me.
    And as wonderful as this sounds (and enjoyable) I feel so nervous. This is new territory for me.
    I feel – guilty?
    Like I should play down my potency because whilst I felt pleased and pleasured by some things he said and presented to me, I don’t in fact feel good with him, I don’t want him- 90% of the time I feel shrunken and barren in his presence.
    “I should tone it down, it’s not right for me to be big and beautiful, I’d be leading him on and that’s not right..”
    Treat them all equally – does this mean I am advised to accept dates from anyone and everyone? Including men I don’t really feel interested in? (I would REALLY like to hear an answer to this question.)

    I imagine myself with a man I feel attracted to, I let my pleasurable giggles bubble out of me, I feel warm and soft and I glow all over. I feel good about getting bigger and more vibrant and colourful and luscious.
    When I envision myself in the presence of a man I don’t feel comfortable with or attracted to, I feel a strong urge to clamp it down, and suddenly I feel cold and very sad.
    I suspect that this may be a snag – an old habit showing up amidst the sparkling new.
    I asked myself – “ If I trusted myself to respond – to truly acknowledge, act on and vocalise how I feel, in response to each gradual moment by moment development – would I feel an urge to clamp down?”
    My answer, a loud, shouting “absolutely not!”
    Stay open, be big and glorious, in his presence, in everybody’s presence, sink deeper and deeper into myself, and if he moves forward and I’m not feeling it- express, “I don’t feel comfortable with this.” – I don’t need to pretend to feel good about things that I don’t. Keep responding, keep communicating.
    I would like some help.
    I would like to feel clearer.

    I feel curious and gentle towards the posts on this forum. I feel grateful that I am able to participate.
    Thank you Rori for making this available.
    Lots of Love,

  50.  #50April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Dominique and sirens,

    The man I have been seeing is due back from a week away.
    He can’t wait to see me.
    I am dreading it.
    And there is NO REASON for it.
    He is doing many of the right things.

    And I just want to be getting on with my life.
    I don’t think I want a man in it.
    I have a belief that life ends once a man claims me. What joy is there then in flirting etc?

    I can feel the part of me that will keep her freedom at all costs.
    You can’t explain the deep joy of committed intimacy to her. She just feels ‘yuk’ about that stuff.

    I don’t even want him to step inside my house and see that I have painted a bit of the wall this week. I don’t want to have to explain that the colour is wrong and I’m going to try something different.

    I HATE explaining myself.
    If having a man around means constantly explaining myself then I will stay a spinster thank you very much.

  51.  #51April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 8:22 am

    “Oh I love that sky blue colour. It feels like riding on a cloud, feeling free.

    It feels clashing with the other colours, though. I feel a little sad that they don’t sit well together. And I feel excited to find a new colour.”

  52.  #52April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Poetry feels so much softer and more soothing than explaining.

  53.  #53April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Choosing a new thought:

    Seeing him tonight means a chance to be with ME more deeply.

    By searching into my deepest feelings, I can discover more about myself in his presence than I can alone.

    Really, there is very little to discover about HIM. Making it about him is what has been my past pattern.
    Maybe the new sensation of fear and dread is because I realise that relationship needs to be about ME.
    And if I don’t start accessing and sharing my feelings out loud, he is just going to go on and on in his reporter style. And I am going to get annoyed and bored and judge him as unworthy.

    He is coming towards me, and so I’m guessing that he would want to hear the deeper aspects of me. That is, after all, what interests ME most!

  54.  #54Beloved on April 11, 2015 at 10:11 am

    STS – “what do you think about that? What if he offers an idea that I can’t take? (ie, living out of town with his family or something).”

    What other options do you really have at this point?

    What if he offers ideas that you CAN take? How would that feel?

  55.  #55Dominique on April 11, 2015 at 10:40 am

    April Rose – 49 – Why do you feel you have to explain yourself? This would/could be something interesting to explore.

    A good man who loves you doesn’t judge you or look to make you wrong. He rarely asks for an explanation on anything. This seems to be coming from you. Are you looking to yourself to explain yourself to you?

    This might be a good jumping off point for exploration around this.


  56.  #56prplpsn28 on April 11, 2015 at 11:21 am

    I personally think it would feel good for the guy to be a little jealous. It means he really cares for you.

    Date #2 with new guy tonight. Looking forward to it but a bit nervous as well.

  57.  #57Indigo on April 11, 2015 at 11:48 am

    April Rose,

    I know the feeling of feeling like you have to explain yourself, and talk and talk with a man who is himself a big talker. For me, it feels too exhausting.

    I would explore this trigger a bit more, but at the same time it is teaching you about what you don’t want in a relationship. Do you think you might be happier/more suited with a quieter man?

  58.  #58nyx on April 11, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    @ Beloved and April,

    blushing, I have to admit I am one of these people who interrupt others. In our family, we just do talk at the same time, and it is definitely a way of creating connection, weird as it may sound. That said, I am absolutely aware all people will not work the same way, and that I might come off as rude, which I’d hate to be… it is just that I get so enthusiastic at times, and kind of… chime in. like “Yes! I want you to know I know this feeling you describe too, I am really with you here!”…
    (If you are interested, Deborah Tannen has written about “very respectful speakers versus very enthusiastic speakers”)
    So I’d like to you to consider your guy might do this out of a feeling of connection… that he actually felt all taken in by your poetry, like he was there. That said, when I get carried away, I have a colleague who says “Let me finish” and it works like a charm on me. Very effective and respectful and very much earning respect.

    I am on the receiving end of that comment, and I recommend it of all my heart 😉

  59.  #59RileyTheOwl on April 11, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    Sirens I feel so angry and shocked and confused 🙁

    I saw a picture of C with this girl, it’s from 2am last night, looks like a party setting, and she herself looks really… I feel triggered by her looks. Asian with long straight blond hair, short shorts and a really revealing shirt, making a kissy face at the camera, they are sitting close together.

    I feel shocked, and angry, just a few hours before this he was texting me.

    Okay, I feel … Sad, angry, surprised, disappointed, confused. I feel like yelling at him! I feel like asking him if he’s moved on from me so fast.

    I feel like asking him if he even cared that we broke up.

    This feels awful.

    I don’t want to be feeling this.

    Sirens please help me put a better perspective on this, I need to hear someone else’s perspective, because I’m crying so hard and my hands are shaking as I type this I’m so angry.

    I wonder if he posted that picture just to make me jealous.

    It’s working… :p

    I really don’t want to be concerned about what he’s thinking here though… So… Well, I feel really bad about this picture. It’s probably time I block him on all forms of social media then?

    Riley, first of all it’s probably nothing. she’s really not the kind of girl he’s attracted to, if anything they are just friends… And no matter what, it’s none of my business, I don’t WANT to be involved in this. They are just friends, maybe he’s even a bit annoyed at her for taking the picture. The point is, who knows? Take a deep breath…I love my anger… My confusion… I love that I don’t know, and I love that it’s bothering me. I love that I’m unjust trying to protect myself, it means I care about me. Riley, I care about you<3 and sitting on my bed crying about this is not going to help… I love my tears, but I have so many exciting things today that I want to get back to! So why mope about C? He's Mayne missing me, maybe even trying to make me jealous. Well, I'm missing me too. I'm missing getting in touch with myself while lying in the sunlight in my backyard, so I'm going to go experience that now.

  60.  #60lovetodance on April 11, 2015 at 3:28 pm


    i am so sorry you are feeling/and experiencing all this…i feel sad and hurt just reading all that is tumbling around in you….

    i have certainly had those feelings/experiences

    and social media is just salting a wound….

    its true you have no idea what this picture is about…
    all you have is the stories that now you can torment yourself with….

    or not…

    my biggest piece of advice if you want advice is to do all you can from checking in on him in the social media world…its like stopping smoking or sugar or any addicitive substance…
    these substances…including toxic emotional feedback loops ie…jealousy, crisis, stress, strife….feeling unloved and scared of never being loved…
    etc etc etc…they all create loops and belief systems and social media is a breeding ground for emotional upset…

    whew! yes i have been there …i disconnected and at times i still feel the pull…but oh my goodness i am free …thank goodness i am free…!

    i hope you have been layin in the sun on the earth…loving your beautiful siren self…this is part of the equation…of building our muscles that say ‘no, not gonna go there’….
    remember you broke it off with him….he his taking care of his ego and heart as you now are taking care of yours….who knows how he is….just like you so wisely said, its his business…

    you are exploring…there will be joy and hurt and despair and euphoria….and learning to love yourself more and more…..here and everywhere you go/are….well this is what we are hopefully doing…
    i am listening to my own words!
    wishing you peace beautiful siren….

  61.  #61April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    Do you want him back?

  62.  #62April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 4:15 pm


    Yes, I think there is something to explore around this.

    I get so angry sometimes when I imagine someone getting all in my business. That’s how I perceive it. He may be genuinely curious as to why the wall has changed colour, yet I perceive it as an intrusion.

    When I am in that ‘mood’ I want to protect my privacy. I suspect this is a wall around my heart.

    Also, I have a deep-seated fear of ‘interrogations’ and often used to get irritable with my family when they started asking questions about my life. It is now a family joke to ‘not ask April any direct questions’.

    I thought I had moved on from that and become more open, but this latest episode shows me there is more to be healed.

    p.s. He came over tonight, and didn’t even notice the painted wall!

  63.  #63April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Tonight’s date began as a disaster. I was quiet, and judging him in my head and wishing I wasn’t out with him. He asked me what was wrong, and when I couldn’t articulate my feelings he began to get bristly. I felt paralysed and couldn’t bring myself to speak, even when he asked. At one point he stopped the car and told me he felt miserable and that he was going to take me home where we could talk if I wanted to.

    I had to bite the bullet and awkwardly begin to unload some of my myriad emotions. I said I hadn’t been giving him the ‘silent treatment’ (his words) but had been paralysed to speak on account of the sheer volume of stuff I was feeling.

    We ended up having quite a deep chat, after I described my soup of emotions as being like a bottle with a cork in it and many colours and textures swirling around inside. Each with a different voice – some shouting “Help! Let me out of here”, others screaming “Get lost! Leave me alone”, some trying to ram the cork in tighter, and others trying to loosen it.

    He asked me if he could help me uncork the bottle. I felt delighted by his question.

    He has expressed a wish for us to talk about everything. He says that honest communication is key, and he’d rather know what’s going on with me and that he would rather I was brutal than withhold my thoughts and feelings.
    That feel really good and safe to hear.

  64.  #64April Rose on April 11, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    I ended up blurting out my frustration with Saturday nights not feeling special, and how we usually end up hanging out at his or my house and how when I started dating I looked forward to Saturday nights being out and about in the city seeing and doing interesting things.

    The outcome was him suggesting that we look up the listings together and find things to go to that we both would enjoy. And that this would be in addition to him looking for things himself, that would be a surprise for me.

    I honestly feel ‘Wow’. This man is a problem solver, and wants to make me happy.

    He also opened up and admitted that he is ‘investing’ his heart in me and that it is taking him out of his comfort zone.
    He said that may be why I am feeling that he is encroaching on me.

  65.  #65Dixie on April 11, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    April rose,

    I’m just catching up on the thread here and I am blown away by your ability to gently take down your boundaries…

    As I read, I can identify with some of your triggers and I love the way you were able to express them in a way that brought this man closer to you!

    For me as well, I sometimes feel triggered by a man’s curiosity/genuine interest, taking that almost as a sign of intrusion, and then feeling a need to protect my autonomy, as well as my inner girl.

    Feeling very inspired by you!

  66.  #66lovetodance on April 11, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    Dixie and April Rose

    Dixie I respond to your sentiments about april rose’s post…

    yes i can feel intruded on…and get all bottled up….and its such a toss up between holding it all in…which i inevitably cannot do…nor want to…

    and april rose i feel you did express yourself so beautifully …and the fact that this man listened…didn’t float off or judge you…in fact like you say….is a problem solver…
    well that would turn me on…

    i love love love when a man can hear my real self…can hear my feelings…

    of course the art of expressing those feelings is what i am learning ever so slowly here…

    i know how open and lovey i feel when a man has heard me…when i express the good bad ugly in a way that doesn’t alienate him….how open i get…how close i feel then to him….

    you go siren april rose…!

  67.  #67Dixie on April 11, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    Little update here:

    Thank you for the responses about my parents housing dilemma! Sirens, I am really appreciative of this space.

    After talking to a colleague (who is more like a sister), my mom,as well as listening to the insight given here, I realized that what I want to do -swoop in and “rescue” my parents by investing in their house- is not really what my heart wants. I’ve played the rescuer in my life so many times for different reasons, and me moving back would be stepping back into that “martyr” role. I know that a better way to help them WILL come along. In some way, I wonder if I agreed to the idea in my head as a way to “justify” the reason for not living with my Forever man.

    D has been so tender and affectionate that it’s been nice to just lean back and appreciate him. I don’t have to do anything. This is such a change from before and I’m learning to be vulnerable.

    Anyhow, in all this, it’s felt good processing these feelings on my own, and with trusted female insight.

  68.  #68Millie on April 11, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    Ladies, I feel unhappy in my current relationship. Everything was great until my boyfriend encountered some challenges at work and inhis family. He has withdrawn a lot and I keep using feeling messages to express myself but he told me he can’t give 100% right now and that he needs space. I said I understood and want to be there for him and fine him what he needs but I don’t want us to grow apart and lose the amazing connection we have over this. His reply was simply thank you. I don’t know what to do… I’m wondering if I should take space as well and let him know I need to step back and open myself up to other men because I can’t be 100% if he’s not. I really don’t know how to proceed. Any help?! Would be amazing.

  69.  #69Beloved on April 11, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    RoomieJ just left my room in tears. She feels very triggered, and angry, and rightfully so, by some of the changes happening in the house.
    Personally, for the amount of rent I pay, I don’t care much about den being off-limits. RoomieJ pays more than I do, and she’s pist.
    Besides that, though…she KNOWS, knows knows, that TG is holding something against her that he won’t talk to her about.
    *I* know, and I had actually forgotten about it – and – I don’t feel it’s my place to say anything.
    It’s from the day he knocked on her door just 10 minutes after he had talked to her and told her he needed to come in to get to the attic, and she didn’t answer. He banged and yelled, and she didn’t answer, and emerged maybe 30 minutes later, seemingly oblivious. He believes he smelled acetone or something, and wouldn’t ask her about it.
    I feel pretty certain this is what he’s not addressing, she’s upset. I don’t feel bad about it, I feel pretty neutral, really.

    I do feel like maybe I need to say to him that I need him to work it out with her.
    “I would feel a lot better if you the stuff with RoomieJ that day got cleared up. It feels like a black cloud hanging over the household. I don’t feel right knowing about it when it hasn’t been discussed with her.”

    What do you think, sirens?

  70.  #70Indigo on April 11, 2015 at 11:14 pm


    Wow, this feels like high school to me. Where one is holding a grudge against the other over something small and won’t come out and talk about it, but resorts to passive aggression, and the other person can *feel* something is wrong but they don’t know what. I would find this hard to be around because I am very sensitive to people’s energies.

    It seems to me that the only way to get this resolved is to have an open and frank discussion, get it all out in the open and clear the air. Could you suggest this? I cannot see that it can be being solved by both of them offloading on you instead of talking to each other. Just my take.

  71.  #71Indigo on April 11, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    Millie 67,

    I’m sorry you are going through this. I’ve been there before and I know how sad and confusing and difficult it feels. You want to be supportive and yet you also want what’s best for YOU, which you should.

    I think this: “I’m wondering if I should take space as well and let him know I need to step back and open myself up to other men because I can’t be 100% if he’s not” is a really good place to start. Although on the other hand if he’s going through a crisis it would be really hard for him to know that as a result he is also losing you to other men.

    Maybe you could just, for now, just start casually opening yourself up to other men, just coffee dates or something low key. And at the same time open yourself up more to your family and friends and to other activities that feel good. Maybe give yourself a certain time period that you decide on, maybe a month, for your boyfriend to come around and when he contacts you, express how good it feels to hear from him and that you miss him and that you are keeping yourself open to other things and people. And if after that time things don’t come right you could consider moving on or CDing more seriously.

  72.  #72Beloved on April 11, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    Indigo – lol, yes, it feels like high school.
    It’s challenging to not try to get into TG’s head – I did wonder if he had some unresolved stuff from way back with a woman RoomieJ’s age and it needed to be worked out.

    As for my interactions with RoomieJ – it feels like it’s necessary for her to be able to talk to me and cry and feel everything she feels without me feeling bad about it or needing to fix it. She has repeatedly told me to tell her when she’s doing something wrong so she can fix it – yet the only thing I’ve told her I feel annoyed with is her saying that over and over again and she can’t seem to stop it, which we giggled about.

    I feel at a loss how to respond because it doesn’t matter to me that I feel annoyed by it. To me it’s just part of life and it would drive me nuts to go around correcting her for every little thing I feel irritated about, I’m kind of an irritable cranky person sometimes. 😀

    At any rate, I could feel the juice flowing in being present and neutral with her while she was crying.

    I feel like leaning back, loving, and laughing at the whole situation. OMG. I’m doing it now, I’m totally LOLing over this, and how TG is practically literally building a fortress for himself over it. He told me earlier it’s his way of looking for a peaceful solution, and…hahahaha…RoomieJ even made a comment about how I’m clearly “the favorite”, hahaha. I said, I don’t think anyone has ever said that to me ever before in my life, ever, and laughed.

    We’re all probably stuck somewhere developmentally and are just working it out. I do feel like I need to say something to him tomorrow about not wanting the stuff to be outstanding.

  73.  #73Kath on April 12, 2015 at 12:49 am

    This post has really made me realize that I do have a choice in my relationships!- I don’t have to put up with behaviour that doesn’t make me feel good and isn’t what I want but I also don’t have to try and make things better by over-functioning or constantly telling him where HE is going wrong. That has definitely been my relationship mistake in the past. Even in my most recent relationship with R, a man I really thought I was in love with and wanted to share the rest of my life with, I realize and acknowledge now that there were a lot of signals that I saw that triggered me, but which I tried to point out to him were wrong and he should do better. The bottom line is, YES he should have worked on his issues more and listened to what the good people around him were saying, but he chose not to and instead chose to spend time with people who “needed” him to “do” things for them.

    He in turn tried to make out that the problems in our relationship were all my doing and if I could only accept, deal with or just not say anything, we would have been fine. But we wouldn’t have been fine because I felt miserable, unloved, unheard, frustrated, and that he wasn’t telling me the truth. He has even now admitted to me that he did increase the contact he had with his X’s (2 of them) to make me believe something was going on. I was so sad when he told me that but at the same time thankful that he had finally been honest. Having said that, if you really loved someone why would you let them believe that you were deceiving them?- why wouldn’t you put your arms around them and reassure them that you loved them and understood how your behaviour was making them feel. That’s what I would have done anyway.
    I’ve had a lot of thinking time and seeing the kids yesterday (his grandkids who call me Nana) brought it home. I do love him and I understand him so much more now- but I wouldn’t reach my full potential with a man like him; I would be stifled and I don’t want to feel that again.

  74.  #74Zara on April 12, 2015 at 1:09 am


    “Your need for space from me feels painful and I have investigated my heart about the pain. My heart tells me to stay at the distance you wish. It feels respectful of your need and it allows my life to keep expending while you sort out your life. I will miss you but I want you to take all the time you need while I keep open to what and to who comes to me. Keeping open to what comes to me feels healthier than waiting still and disconnected from the natural swirling of Universe. I owe it to my heart to keep expanding.”


  75.  #75Sami Wunder on April 12, 2015 at 1:38 am

    # 58. Riley the Owl

    I am so sorry ! I know the many bad feelings “other women” can trigger in us women. Even if it means nothing, it can still feel awful and so real in the moment to our inner system.

    But here´s the thing – if you can look at your pain as an opportunity to turn things around, I´d say this is the best time to “get your own diva on” instead of confronting him or feeding your bad feelings ( which are right now at their peak and naturally so!)

    It will feel hard yes because your mind will constantly want to pull you back into the pain. If you like, you are welcome to talk to me in a free session. I´d love to help you out. Love, Sami

  76.  #76Indigo on April 12, 2015 at 1:56 am


    I’m not sure if you would find this helpful, but I did find it incredibly helpful – Sami Wunder recently had a newsletter where she says that overfunctioning actually causes a man to be angry, like a child. In her words:

    “A man likes to be “in the driving seat.” He enjoys being in the driving seat. It is in his masculine nature to enjoy it.

    And when we overfunction, we literally “deprive” him of his pleasure to be a man in the relationship. He gets “angry” with us …like a little child”

    I found this so interesting. I’m not saying it’s a justification for behaviour like what your man did with contact with his exes. But it did give me a lot of pause and cause me to examine my role in my own relationship. I started to ask myself the question, what if when he gets angry it’s because I have been usurping the masculine role? I see now that it’s actually our, the feminine partner’s, role to be passive. Or at least, this is what always feels the best in my own relationship. It feels a bit wrong or unnatural somehow, because I’m so in my masculine energy at work, but when I can get there it feels SO much better in my personal life.

  77.  #77Indigo on April 12, 2015 at 2:02 am

    Happy birthday to dearest Dominique!

    Thank you for all your help here on Siren Island


  78.  #78Femininewoman on April 12, 2015 at 3:19 am

    Happy Birthday Dominique 🙂

  79.  #79Zia on April 12, 2015 at 4:07 am

    OMG SIRENS!!!!! I am ENGAGED!!!!! I still can’t quite believe it!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  80.  #80nyx on April 12, 2015 at 5:06 am

    GRATZ Zia! :D:D:D

  81.  #81Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 7:31 am

    Wishing you the Happiest of Birthday
    Lovely siren!!!

  82.  #82Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 7:32 am

    Such a great testimonial to the Rori Tools!!

  83.  #83Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Kim #287 from last thread…
    I wanted to respond to your warm, thoughtful post
    about an old CD of yours…

    You wanted to keep those of us who are still available hopeful
    Yes!!!! there ARE wonderful men available…
    Thank you for Giving us HOPE to continue on our horse
    opening our hearts so that when
    Mr. Right does appear
    We will be able to let him in!!!

  84.  #84Beloved on April 12, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Zia, how wonderful!!! I wish you all the best!! Big warm hugs to you!

  85.  #85Beloved on April 12, 2015 at 9:01 am

    Throwing love on the whole situation here at home seems to be working.
    I felt like the conversation with RoomieJ last night was productive for both of us. It feels even funnier to me this morning, as I’m noticing the reflections bouncing around and the other two’s reactions to their own reflections.
    RoomieJ asked me not to talk about her behind her back, and I told her…I honestly don’t know how we can live together and NOT do that. You and I are sitting here right now talking about TG and RoomieN behind their backs…soo?? And I felt lighter, like a little light went on in between us 🙂
    She also accused RoomieN of “throwing her under the bus” and I pointed out to her where she has been throwing RoomieN under the bus, and RoomieN hasn’t ever come to me with stuff about RoomieJ. Oh. Another little light. It wasn’t from a space of “you’re wrong” or needing to be right, it felt like that soft and sparkling spacious place inside of me.

    This morning I met up with TG in the kitchen, and he was grousing about the coffee cups being missing, so I said, let’s count them. We determined 2 of them were actually missing (not TEN – there aren’t even TEN of them…lol). He groused a little bit about coffee stains on the stairs and then not liking the idea of the coffee cups being hoarded in the bedrooms.
    I told him I had some cold brew coffee ready – and a light went on for HIM – oh…HE had one of the coffee cups hidden in the fridge. Oops.
    I laughed at him, he pointed to his own self and said, “guilty..guilty!”. We laughed and…ha.
    RoomieJ seemed cold and curt with me this morning and I feel giggly and happy about that. I appreciate that she isn’t pretending like she’s ok when she isn’t. I love it, actually. And…I feel totally ok. I don’t need to fix it, or ask about it, or interfere with it.

    TG had a woman spend the night last night so that probably helped put him in a good mood so I BLESS and am so grateful for the brave beautiful woman who kept his bed warm last night, lol.

    I feel so happy right now.

  86.  #86Millie on April 12, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Indigo– thanks I do think if I leave, I will be one more horrible thing that’s happening to him, however I can’t sacrifice my life for his feelings when that is not being reciprocated. I spoke to my cousin at length last night and she said that relationships are about getting through the tough times too and I have to decide if I love him enough to trust he will come back and give him the time to do it or if I don’t feel patient enough and can’t give him this time. This is a different way of looking at things… It’s a lot more black and white. I think your suggestion of slowly opening up is good. My mom also suggested giving him a time frame and asking how long he needs and deciding if I’m willing to endure that time or not. I think you can’t put a deadline on things like this… But I don’t know.

    Zara— well spoken as usual 🙂 thank you

  87.  #87Indigo on April 12, 2015 at 10:53 am


    I find a “timeline” or “deadline” is more for you, so you can feel comfortable or have a plan, you don’t even need to tell him or ask him about it. It’s not a contract that you’re bound to, you can change the timeline at will according to your feelings. I know I do that, just to give me something to measure a situation against in my mind, I’m more fluid about it, and I change it if it feels right. For me, it’s more a tool if you’re deciding whether or not to be patient about something. x

  88.  #88Indigo on April 12, 2015 at 10:55 am


    BIG congratulations to you!! How marvellous. I’m sure we would love to hear the romantic story of how he proposed if you feel open to sharing 🙂

  89.  #89Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 10:56 am

    I love how you flipped your feelings…
    Yes, social media has Many wonderful aspects
    But as far as dating is concerned
    I have found it NO HELP at all!!
    I try and keep my BF info off facebook etc.
    until we are forever… :-))

  90.  #90Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 10:58 am

    thnx sooo much for your siren song!!!
    It feels sooo warm and powerful reading how you are navigating the shallows and deep pools of the roommate river…

  91.  #91Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Indigo #86…
    so interesting you use the “timeline for self” tool also…
    It keeps ME much more patient
    otherwise i’ll get VERY IMpatient
    when I expose MY heart i notice I feel VERY
    angry and scared and WEAK
    and my answer to those feelings is to

    It’s only for me… and yes, i can extend it if I feel so inclined or shorten…
    Ahhhh… it’s all in my power… ;-0
    Giving *ME* permission and time
    to find my deeper feelings…

  92.  #92Azure Blu on April 12, 2015 at 11:07 am

    April Rose,
    Ahhhh… so brave you are
    to expose your heart… use feeling messages
    and ask for what you want!!!

    I see how much closer you both were able to get because of your vulnerability!!!
    how masculine that he came up with some GREAT solutions!!!
    Thank you for sharing!!!
    I learned a lot from this.

  93.  #93Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    April Rose – 61 – I hear you. I hate feeling interrogated as well. An old trigger of mine too.

    What I have found so helpful with K is to be upfront and honest.

    I used to have another trigger around people saying – I worked SO hard. – An old mother thing. And K used to say this a lot. I know where it comes from, and why it bothers me, and I can usually soothe myself and get to a better feeling place quickly. But one day I decided to just tell him. The meaning around this for him of course is much different than it is for me. Just getting it out into the open made all the difference in the world. Now it’s our private joke, no longer bothers me, and if we say it, it has to be in they way and accent my mother says it. Total pressure/stress release.

    Try telling him – I want to share something with you. I know this is me and my stuff, an old trigger, yet it still feels bad. – And then share with what it is. –

    If he’s a good guy, he will totally get it and want to help you in this.


  94.  #94Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:48 pm

    April Rose – 63 & 64 – This is fabulous. SO great.


  95.  #95Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Thank you Indigo. <3

    Love to you.


  96.  #96Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Thank you Femininewoman <3

    Love to you. 🙂


  97.  #97Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Zia – 78 – YAY!!! This feels SO incredibly amazing to read. You’re AWESOME!!!


  98.  #98Dominique on April 12, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Thank you so much Azure Blu <3


  99.  #99Femininewoman on April 12, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Zia congratulations girl. I feel blessed to have shared in your journey so far 🙂 “)

  100.  #100April Rose on April 12, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Thank you Dominique.

    And a happy happy gorgeous birthday to you.
    Wishing you the sweetest deepest joy.

  101.  #101April Rose on April 12, 2015 at 1:52 pm


    Thank you for these phrases

    “I’d love to experience the sun kissing your face/my face on the green lawn of……….”

    “I feel most alive when I am …………………….”

    Let me see if I can use them authentically…
    I’d love to experience the sensation of engaging my whole body in an activity such as rowing or wrestling!!”
    “I feel most alive when I am engaging all my senses.”

  102.  #102April Rose on April 12, 2015 at 1:59 pm


    Thank you for this beautiful question
    “What does passion mean to you?”

    I have been taking my time to ponder this.
    It means the feeling of being scooped up confidently and pulled into an embrace. It means sensation on a deep level. It means feeling desired by someone I myself desire. It means a sense of unexplored treasure and pleasure.

    Hmm. I guess it really does relate to the physical connection between myself and a man. It is the opposite of ‘lukewarm’ or ‘good enough’. It’s special and wonderful.

  103.  #103April Rose on April 12, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Dixie, lovetodance, Azure Blu and Dominique,

    Thank you for your encouraging words and it feels wonderful to offer some inspiration to you from my situation.

    Honestly, I feel like I am being ‘stretched’ beyond my comfort limits daily.

    Today came the next big trigger.
    I can’t report that I was vulnerable enough to articulate my feelings on it today, though. The clarity is only arriving now, after he has gone home.

    I only knew that I felt uncomfortable, bored, restless, agitated and overwhelmed in his presence. And I couldn’t find a way to express it. So I went to default mode which was to panic in myself and try and find a way to end the discomfort. I was wishing he would leave. I said “I feel restless and need to get on with things”. He said “okay, I’ll go home then”. He then gave me a lovely hug, stayed a few more minutes and left amicably.

    I let out a big sigh once he’d gone, feeling very relieved to have my own space. And also feeling anxious about the next time we get together.

    He is always using the term ‘we’, and talks as if we are already an established couple. I am not feeling that at all. He is way ahead of me in the timeline. And I’m experiencing it as pressure. And that is reducing my enjoyment of getting to know one another.

    On the other hand, things moving so fast mean that I am working through triggers at a swift rate! And, I am sensing the changes in our dynamic and feeling my way through them pretty quickly too.

    It feels kind of urgent to decide what I want with this.

    Rori says we get to do WHAT WE WANT!!

    I wanted to date several men, but none showed up around the time I met him and I think it might be too late or too awkward to add them in now.

  104.  #104RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Oh sirens 🙂

    Today this guy I met with my cousins last summer crossed my mind… I met him while I was in a committed relationship with C, but he hung out with me and my cousins, and he didn’t know about C. He pursued me really hard last summer… But I wasn’t interested. He’s really good at hula hooping, (I know, pretty odd, but he does it really gracefully for a guy) and today I was visioning hula hooping with my toes in sand and the sun on my face… And I was wishing I new how to hula hoop… Then I remembered him. I’ll call him Hula 😉 and so I sent him a text, saying today I am imagining hula hooping on a beach… And even though I leaned forward by doing that, he just jumped right in and started rowing the boat.
    “where can I meet you” “when are you available” “want to grab lunch and go to the beach?” it feels like a “hanging out” vibe, but that a okay with me, I want to just have a friendship to have someone to hang out with and get my mind off C. I feel really light inside, I feel a little nervous to talk with this guy who I haven’t spoken with for almost a year… I feel hopeful for myself, happy, joyful 🙂 it’a just been so long since I’ve been on a date… (Well, not that he called this a date. It’s just hanging out, but to me it feels like circular dating.) I’m so happy for myself.

  105.  #105RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    lovetodance, 59,
    thank you… When I see the picture in my mind, when I think about it, it feels really, really bad… I feel this deep hurting ache in my chest and neck and I feel like curling up and being confused. It’s so not like the C I knew to go to parties and hang out with girls like that, I find it so so so hard to believe, sometimes I wonder if the picture came out of my imagination because it’s exactly like a bad dream picture that wouldn’t happen in real life. Ugh. I DO want to know what he’s thinking, and I want to yell at him that I think he’s no different than the regular asshole, and that he’s just some women using jerk with a big, ugly ego. Blah. Isn’t that awful? I’ve never never felt so mad at him before.I wish I hadn’t seen that picture. I’ve never wanted to say such awful things to a human being before either, I feel surprised at myself, but I know this is coming from the part of me that wants to protect me, so I respect that and love that I’m so angry.

    How I decided to act was to remove him from all my social media. on Facebook I didn’t block him, I just removed him from my news feed, so he can still see what I’m up to 😉 I took him off my snapchat and instagram too. He only had instagram to see my pictures, and he still can, but even though he never posts anything I unfollowed him just to be safe… Sighh.

    I feel such a deep hurting in me.

    You are wise lovetodance, and like you, I’m just going to say to myself, out loud right now, ‘nope, I’m not going to go there”.

    I’m not going to go there.

    I appreciate what you said about him needing to take care of his ego, that does make sense to me, but in a way it also makes me feel angry, because I find men with large egos very unatractive. C has never had that about him, that’s why I feel.. well… Scared, by this picture. Like who even is he anymore? I feel sad by that thought.

    This is really hard 🙁 but lovetodance, you say this is part of the equation, of building our siren muscles and moving on to something better feeling. I’ve grieved over this picture for a day… I really want to be done. I just feel so deeply disturbed all by a picture… I don’t want to be, but I am, 🙁

  106.  #106RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    April Rose, 60,

    I’m really glad you’re asking me this, because I need to tell someone in order to be clear with myself, or at least to write it down somewhere.

    The answer is, no. I do not want him back.
    There are times when I miss him. I miss the old him and our old times, when he said he was head over heels for me and everything felt sweet and lovely. He was a great support through high school, and that was his role in my life. we’re going different paths now, and I want to part, so that I can graduate and go on my travel year and FIND MYSELF. I do not want him back, because then I’d feel like I am moving backwards, and disrespecting my need to be free and travel and find myself and my spirituality. I’m done of this relationship, I’m ready for the great wide open world ahead of me.

    What I do want though, is for his attention… When I broke up with him, it was like he was sad but alright, and that feels bad to me because it was really hard for me to break things off. But he seems fine. I want his attention :/ It’s hard to say and admit that, but deep down that a what I’m wanting. does that make sense?

  107.  #107Zia on April 12, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    Thank you everyone! I am so excited! I cannot believe that it was this time two years ago when I first found Rori, and how much my life has changed since then.

    Indigo 78 – He asked my parents permission about two weeks ago apparently, and he asked my son’s permission too (which was sweet, even though he’s only 4). My sister and one of my best friend were in cahoots and helped planned the whole thing.

    My family background is Russian and we celebrate orthodox easter every year (it’s our big family thing). After lunch yesterday, he got down on one knee next to me at the table (in front of everyone!) and asked me to marry him. It was so sweet and unexpected. I never dreamed he would do it so soon as we are planning to move in together in September. He has spent a lot of time at my house though, as we are trying to ease my son into the idea. Everyone is so excited. I honestly still can’t really believe it, it feels so surreal. I have a lot of study to do over the next year so the wedding probably won’t happen till at least late next year but that’s ok.

  108.  #108RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    Sami, 74,
    my mind is definitely pulling me back into pain by constantly flashing that picture at me… I really don’t want to think about it. I’m definitely not confronting him, I feel no desire to (well I did have a desire to yell at him before, but that’s not going to actually happen). I AM feeding my bad feelings and I know that if I saw him in person I’d completely clam up and go cold, so turned off by this disturbing picture. I don’t want that though. I want to feed my HAPPY feelings. When I see him, I want to be this vibrant confident radiant energy person who shines past his cocky smile. I don’t know how to summon that strength though.

  109.  #109RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    I just want to say THANK YOU!!! Thank you, to everyone here helping me, for all your wise words and help during the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. Thank you sirens.

  110.  #110lovetodance on April 12, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    Dear Riley Siren…

    ohhhh i know how difficult this can feel/be

    wanting to move on…yet still wanting and needing that which made us feel secure and happy in the past…
    and the dynamic of ‘he or she is mine’ even when it is changing…
    its tricky….because none of us are really each other’s…we are only our-selves…

    this sounds and feels to me like such a big transistion..for you and for C…
    trying out new ways, possibly people, parts of yourself…
    its not comfortable..and sometimes it is vey exciting at the same time…disturbing and growthful…

    i loved that you reached out to Hula….no matter the outcome…you stretched….
    it feels to

    me when i read your posts…’stretching’ is a theme here…

    someone mentioned getting ‘your diva on’…and i know in situations where i felt not the confidence i needed…i actually prayed for the energy that i needed to be there….i really have hypnotized myself at certain points into walking in the world like the beautiful goddess i am…especially when i knew a certain someone who i could lose all power with would be in the vicinity…
    and it has always worked…

    stay in touch with your excited and wise self….we are all changing and growing…
    growing pains…building strong muscles….you are doing beautifully lovely siren..
    hope some of this is helpful…
    much love to you!

  111.  #111RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    lovetodance, 109,

    It has all the different sides to it. Firstly the disturbing side… All my anger and icky feelings.. but at the moment, sitting here in my yummy smelling bedroom space I am feeling the excitement 🙂 I feel excited to see hula, more so to see how I feel in his presence. I feel excited to see how it feels to be with a man, just being together, and to see how I feel. I’m seeing the doors opening, this big path stretching out in front of me (there’s the “stretching” again!) And the fresh air of newness and freedom, I’m going to expand in this freedom. I’m feeling very positive right now 🙂 and I’m about to go do a late evening workout too, to get my groove on, I’m feeling so good.

    Even though I leaned forward with hula, and we’re just hanging out, I did this for me, because now I’m feeling really happy. Like yes of course I can attract people, and I just feel like such a siren. Having plans, no matter how casual, makes me feel like I’m moving forward in my life. I have this thing I’m looking forward too, and now whenever C and the picture of the girl and him pops into my mind I just remember my plans with hula and I get all excited feeling about me and my life. Yesss go me!! 🙂

    I feel curious, what do you mean by the theme of stretching? Like stretching my muscles, getting rid of old aches and pains, getting ready for something new? What do you think?

    Get my diva on… Okay, you’re inspiring me. The situation you mentioned about being around the person who takes all that vibe and shine away from you… That’s me with C. Whenever I see him, he looks so confident and smiley and Happy, and I just cower and close up and get cold!!! Please, how do you hypnotize yourself into staying in your goddess energy? I’ll try to keep my chin up and strut and be my goddess self, but he always catches me by surprise. But, I believe I can do this.

  112.  #112RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    I’m going to try praying for the energy of my goddess self when I see him next… I’ll let you know how it goes 🙂

  113.  #113Indigo on April 12, 2015 at 9:13 pm


    As far as this picture on social media of C with some unlikely looking girl. I’ve been there. Not exactly there but similar enough.

    I’m sorry for your pain over this, yet remember it is almost certain that this woman means nothing at all. We don’t know whether he dated her, or hooked up with her, or is just friends with her, and it isn’t our business, but whatever it is it is almost certainly to console himself over the pain of losing you. This is what men do. They can’t express their grief and hurt in the same open, raw way that we can. This is the way they deal. It feels yucky and horrible I know, but for me it does help to feel some compassion for the hurt I can guarantee you he is also going through, and to know that it is meaningless, and this girl more than likely won’t even be around next week.

    Having said that I think it’s good you removed him from social media – you don’t need triggers like that making things even more difficult for you.

  114.  #114RileyTheOwl on April 12, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    “but whatever it is it is almost certainly to console himself over the pain of losing you”.
    Over the pain of losing me.
    I didn’t’ copy and paste that, I typed it, because I really, really want to remember and believe it. I know it’s true, it’s just so easy to get carried away with stories about how this doesn’t even hurt him, and you know how it goes.
    Thank you Indigo. I’m sorry to hear you’ve been here, because yeah, it sucks!

    I am glad, and I know it’s bad to wish pain on another human being.. but I need to remind myself that he is missing me and hurting over me.. cause it really didn’t feel like it. But of course he would never tell me that. I just wish he didn’t let me go so easily…

  115.  #115Millie on April 12, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    I think this is the end of my relationship. He was supposed to see me today and completely blew me off and said not a word. I called him and he had ignored my call and then turned his phone off. Clearly he doesn’t want to speak to me and clearly he wants space, but we’ve made a commitment to each other and shutting someone out, choosing not to speak to them, choosing not to communicate…is not right. I think when you agree to be with someone a level of communication is also part of it. I haven’t done anything wrong, I just want to know what is going on with him to the point where he feels he needs to turn his phone off. I just don’t think this is the right relationship for me anymore and I feel so bad, I don’t want to be in it anymore. I can’t believe how our perfect relationship transformed into this….how did we get here? I realize it takes two people to be in a relationship and I own up to whatever I did to contribute to this….but I really don’t think it was me. Something is going on with him and he’s not being up front about it. I don’t know what to do.

  116.  #116April Rose on April 13, 2015 at 3:58 am


    Something is going on with him. And I believe he has been up front about it.

    Men lose all their self-esteem if they lose their job or endure a rejection in their working life.
    It infuses all aspects of their life.

    He is probably feeling really crappy. And is running a story in his head that he is no good, not for a job, not for you, or for anything else.

    Rori’s advice has always been to show faith in his abilities.
    Send him a message saying “I know things feel tough and shitty in your life just now, but I believe in you and know that you’ll be able to turn things around.”

    And then, turn your energy AWAY from him. Go do gorgeous things for you and your life. You won’t stop having feelings for him, but that’s okay. Your focus will be more strongly on the FUN in YOUR life, than on the problems and pain of your relationship.

  117.  #117April Rose on April 13, 2015 at 4:02 am

    He is feeling so sensitive right now that any energy coming toward him from you will feel like unbearable pressure.
    He will feel a subconscious pressure to ‘be the man’ and ‘make you happy’.

    He needs time to reframe himself as a man.

    If you are miles away (energetically) and inspiring yourself in a happy way, then once he is feeling himself again he will come bounding back to you.
    He will be so grateful to the woman who gets him and gets his predicament.

  118.  #118Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 5:11 am

    Morning Sirens…feeling a bit like a nutter this morning. TenderCD left last Friday on a business trip, he’ll be gone for almost two weeks. Things have been going so smoothly for us. Although we’re both crazy busy between work and renovations on our new apartment, we’ve been spending lots of time together and handling all the decisions for the apartment very well. It’s been such a relief…even things we disagree on, we can come to a decision quickly and we’re both willing to compromise. Tender’s been taking great care of me too, planning excellent dates and fussing over me in all the ways I want him to.

    Which is why I feel particularly upset with myself this morning. Before he left he told me he’d call, and would send some photos from where he is to. I got the expectation in my head that we’d talk everyday while he’s gone, yet I haven’t heard from him since he left. It’s only been two days I know…and really I’m setting myself up to be upset with these expectations…and yet I find myself facing these old abandonment triggers ONCE AGAIN. Ugh. It’s all inside of me I know. I keep soothing myself and getting on with life but an hour or so later they’ll come right back up again. I find myself wanting to wait around for his call, even though I know it’s the opposite of what I should be doing.

    I know that as soon as I can forget about all this, I’ll hear from him. Why do I hold onto these old fears so desperately?

  119.  #119Azure Blu on April 13, 2015 at 5:23 am

    Ahhh… lovely Siren,
    I feel sad that you are experiencing the missing of Tender…
    of course you would miss him more if you havn’t heard from him…
    Can’t you call or text him a sweet little picture or something funny to lighten up the vibe?

  120.  #120Azure Blu on April 13, 2015 at 5:33 am

    i’m sorry you are going through this with your man…
    I do understand…
    Spirit is experiencing the same thing…
    changing jobs – 6 months now…
    having to build up a new group of clients
    AND he signed a non compete agreement…
    He’s broke
    AND his daughter is struggling with a mental illness…

    He has withdrawn BIG time just after we decided to be exclusive…

    I too am taking all of Spirits withdrawal on me…
    I keep going over the last times we were together…
    did I say this wrong… did I do this wrong?
    I keep looking at my triggers…
    Trying to let go… of focusing on US!!
    missing Spirit!!!!
    BUT the truth is EXACTLY what April Rose said.

  121.  #121Azure Blu on April 13, 2015 at 5:42 am

    April Rose,,, #115-6
    Ahhhh…. such wise words!!

    your words resonate with me also
    You are so right… Spirit has made it VERY clear
    he is struggling with work issues and his dauhter…
    I continue to want to make it about ME!!!

    I love what you said about Men loosing their self worth when they have lost their job and are broke!!!
    Heck… After I lost my job I was Devastated for a year until I could get my bearings and began to get new clients and make some money!!!

    Thank you for this:
    “Send him a message saying
    “I know things feel tough and shitty in your life
    just now, but I believe in you
    and know that you’ll be able to
    turn things around.”
    And then, turn your energy AWAY from him
    and go about living YOUR happily ever after life.”

  122.  #122Femininewoman on April 13, 2015 at 5:43 am

    Labbit I think it is fine that you are missing him. Turning the light on yourself is showing you in my opinion the type of energy that only your sweetie can inspire in you. It reminds of a story Dominique shared about her own journey.

  123.  #123IamHis on April 13, 2015 at 6:06 am

    I recently read somewhere from a male author that a man can feel connected to a woman without talking to her for months at a time or something like that.

    Well, I believe it now.

    Brown Eyes and I go way back. There was a time about ten years ago when we obviously liked each other, but I never said anything & he never did either. When I moved out of state to work & finish my education, he did ask me to stay, but I knew I had to go & do these things for myself. I felt incredibly sad. He kept in touch at first, but it faded & I ended up falling deeply in love with the guy that brought me here.

    I moved back to where he lived for reasons that had nothing to do with him. We’re friendly, we hug a lot, but he doesn’t invite me to things like he did back then, & while we’re still friendly, we’re not all over each other like we were back then, we don’t constantly tell each other we love each other like we did back then.

    I have watched him pursue at least 4 or 5 other girls. I feel a little jealous sometimes, but not the maddening kind of jealousy. It feels mild. I feel like that ship has sailed, etc.

    I was wearing a dress that I love over the weekend. The colors do amazing things for me, it’s comfortable, and it’s got this cute little trendy zipper down the front that goes down below the navel. There’s a solid color shirt underneath it that covers everything. If you could call it sexy at all, it’s a very classy/subtle sexy. No plunging necklines and it’s knee lenth. It’s one of my favorites, and I feel amazing in it.

    I was rushing to go to the bathroom, and I ran into Brown Eyes. I smiled and gave him a quick hug. He told me he liked my dress and its zipper.

    Then he said in a low voice; “yeah, you keep it zippered before you’re married. Then you’ll unzip it all the way after you’reading married.”

    And he was looking at me like he was enjoying imagining it.

    I felt my guard fly up. I felt shocked. All I could say was “Well, this is awkward…”

    Then, he said: “Come on. It’s us…”

    Reflecting on it later I honestly feel annoyed/angry. I want to be like “um…I didn’t know there was an ‘us!'”

    and then I thought about Tim Tebow and how much more connected I feel to him. I feel like the prettiest girl to him, the only girl to him, special, & it feels so good to feel his energy trying to impress me & win me over.

    I don’t know what I would have done if TT had said something similar to me, but I’m almost sure it would have felt better. I feel more connected to him, since we see each other more often, he is constantly touching me, flirting with me, making me giggle, even if it is at work and with Brown Eyes it’s recreational situations.

    I just felt so surprised by Brown Eyes. I hear that old cliche in my head about women expecting men to be as intuitive as women and “He can’t read your mind! ”

    It felt so out of the blue. I want to be like, “I can’t read your mind, Brown Eyes. “

  124.  #124Millie on April 13, 2015 at 6:56 am

    April Rose, yes what you said makes sense but I’m afraid I’ve already ruined things… I wasn’t able to give him space so he took it. Now I feel hurt and angry with myself. I have been supportive of him, up to now. It’s just hard to trust when everything feels like it’s changing.

  125.  #125April Rose on April 13, 2015 at 7:08 am


    I have to insist on gently disagreeing with you.

    You haven’t ruined anything.

    It’s all in the baby steps, and starting again with giving yourself a big hug.

    And, it’s not about being supportive of him in the traditional sense.
    He is taking space. That is his masculine right.

    I hear you about the feelings of hurt and anger. Yet Rori says she won’t allow you to beat yourself up!!
    You are doing so well. Can you bring focus gently back to your happiness? As a thing that exists in its own right, without relying on outside things or other people.

    This is the challenge I am working on, and I would love to work on it hand in hand with you, my sister siren.
    I have convinced myself I have gone flat and that there is not enough juice and excitement ‘in’ my life.
    I am forgetting that juice and love and excitement need to come forth from the fountain inside me. I create them.

    The paradox being, that when we are in our juicy happy selves, men find us irresistible.

  126.  #126April Rose on April 13, 2015 at 7:19 am

    Azure Blu,

    I feel so happy that my comment was of value to you.

    Have you thought of phrasing a feeling message regarding your need to maintain a feeling of connection throughout his difficult period.

    Perhaps something like “I know times are tough for you right now and I admire the way you are handling your challenges. Thing is, I miss our connection. Is there any way you can suggest us staying more connected to one another through this period?”

  127.  #127Azure Blu on April 13, 2015 at 7:20 am

    April Rose…
    LOVE THIS!!!
    Yes, I’m going to use this one!!
    Thank you.

  128.  #128Dominique on April 13, 2015 at 8:12 am

    Labbitt -117 – Fears like these are so deeply ingrained if not imprinted into your cells, they may never go away entirely. And I understand how this feels SO well. I can still struggle with this sometimes, more so if K goes away which thankfully is rare. Over time he has come to really, really get how primal these fears are in me, and he may not understand, but he does, if this makes sense.

    This took a long time to get here though between us. And how I dealt with the fears is much like you are. Redirecting your focus, your thoughts, your actions, your energy. And yes the fear rises up again, so you keep doing this over and over again, gently yet firmly, taking extra special exquisite care of you while he’s away.

    Love to you.


  129.  #129Indigo on April 13, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Millie 123,

    What if you didn’t mess anything up? What if you are exactly where you need to be, learning exactly what you need to learn? Look how far you’ve come. Look how different this relationship was from every other one you’ve had.

    So he’s taken space. So you reached out for him and it wasn’t well received. So what. I find the hardest part of these types of situations is how hard I am on myself. Go on and forgive yourself, smile at yourself, love yourself. These types of situations ARE hard. Every one of us on this blog who have been through them have found them hard. Give yourself a break. And when you’re ready, gently re-focus on you, learn from it, and move forward.

  130.  #130Millie on April 13, 2015 at 9:59 am

    April Rose–124

    Thank you for your gentle words and reassurance. I have lost my inner happiness and peace through all of this. The relationship has been shifting for weeks and I suppose it just came to a head, but I’ve been in distress and in tears for weeks, trying to put his needs before my own. Your right, I need to find my own happiness and light again, however right now I just want to curl up in bed although I can’t sleep.

    Indigo— you are so right to look at this relationship compared to my past ones. It was so different and amazing in so many ways. I am proud of myself. I have made huge strides. I feel anxiety wondering what will happen next… Is it over? Is he not the one? Will he call and talk? How long… Will it be months down the road before I hear from him again? Will I never hear from him again…. So many questions I know it’s unhealthy to think about and allow to take over. I feel at peace hearing you say that everyone has been through this and so what I reached out and it wasn’t well received. It’s so painful to feel his actions. His coldness.

  131.  #131Femininewoman on April 13, 2015 at 10:36 am

    Millie there is no way that you really can “have lost my inner happiness and peace”. What you really need is a way to reconnect with it. Your energy is just focused somewhere else right now so you are not feeling it. Inner peace is always there when we start looking for it and focusing on it. So is happiness.

  132.  #132Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 10:38 am

    118 Azure Blu — Thank you for the good vibes Azure, they feel warm and melty over me. 🙂 Yes, I absolutely could reach out to Tender, and perhaps it’s stubborn of me, but I really don’t WANT to. Not because I want to punish him or be righteously angry when he does reach out…more because in truth I know everything is just fine, and if he’s not calling me it’s probably because he’s super busy. There are plenty of days where he’s worked 16 hours, come home, and dropped immediately into bed and slept through the night after an exhausting day at work. Could very well be the case on his trip as well, with the added pressure of wining and dining clients.

    It might be a conversation worth having when he gets home…and if I don’t hear him from him at all by the end of the week I will reach out to him…but for now this is more about settling the feelings inside of me, the ones I know are silly but can’t seem to shake.

    So I guess I was just whining or venting more than anything, LOL. It feels so good to have this place to come and let those feelings out.

    121 FeminineWoman — So true. 🙂 I was also faintly remembering that Dominique has a post on this, I’ll have to hunt it down. Thank you.

    127 Dominique — Bleh, I hate the idea that I might have these fears forever, and yet I know that you are so right and in truth it really isn’t a big deal at all. 😉 Thank you for the reassurance that I’m taking the right steps. I’m at work right now but pulled a mood-lifting book out of my library so I can read it tonight. Hope that will help some too.

  133.  #133Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 11:00 am


    I am so sorry to hear about this man pulling away from you, I can imagine how difficult it is to understand and cope with.

    Over the past several weeks I’ve been learning how to flip tough situations like this on their head, for my own sanity and to get a better grip on reality…I can be dramatic at times. 😉

    I fully relate to your desire to just talk to him, find out what he’s thinking, try to understand what’s going on in his mind and how to fix it together, or even just to get closure on what went wrong and what to learn from this.

    But as Indigo says, what if there’s nothing to learn from this? What if you did everything right and the relationship had simply run his course? By its very definition, any disappearing man is not your future husband.

    And what if you could talk to him? What if his tact filter in his brain was turned off and he said something like, “We were getting really close and I realized I might have to commit to one woman forever, when what I really want is to sleep around and have a bunch of different options, so this isn’t gonna work for me after all….” or “I’m secretly looking for someone just like my mom, who didn’t pay enough attention to me as a kid, so at first when you weren’t sure about me you seemed perfect because I got those same resistant feelings and vibes that my mom gave off, but once your feelings started coming around to me suddenly things didn’t feel so great anymore…”

    I’m joking of course, but this is more realistic than most men would admit to. And most of the time when a man pulls away or disappears he doesn’t even really know why, much as when we find ourselves losing attraction for a man we don’t really know why either, we just feel it. And talking about a feeling doesn’t fix anything…you feel the way you do and no amount of conversation or heart to hearts will ever change that. It may feel like coldness to you, but I’ll bet he’s just a good guy who doesn’t want to hurt you, but for whatever reason isn’t feeling the relationship right now. So what? You’re an awesome girl and truth is you aren’t really feeling it either. Why wait around? There’s always another, better, man out there looking for you. Don’t let yourself get hung up on the guy who isn’t courting you and miss out on the men who DESPERATELY want to court you but haven’t found you yet. 🙂

    For women like us — emotionally intelligent, intuitive, educated, and so on — we have to date a lot more men before we find our right match. Emotionally prepare yourself for the fact that over 90% of your relationships aren’t going to work out. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. Doesn’t mean you’re bad at relationships. It simply means that you’re going to have to try out more men until you find the one that ‘clicks’. It’s the same way for an intelligent, successful, masculine man. He tries out LOTS of women before he finds the one…but society doesn’t give him crap for it the way it does women. So embrace all of your opportunities, successes, failures (which really aren’t failures at all, simply educational moments), learning experiences. Every man is bringing you closer to Mr. Right.

    I get feeling sad or lost or even a bit of despair as this is unfolding, but as FeminineWoman wisely said your inner peace and happiness is right inside just waiting for you to rediscover it. If I were you, I’d get back to dating as soon as possible. Put your online profile(s) back up, start looking through men who like you and messaging a few too. Maybe set up a phone date or two?

    This man you’re wondering about may very well come back in the future, perhaps the very near future, or he may fade away forever. If he does come back, you’ll feel much clearer and better if you’re out there taking care of yourself than if you’d waited around for him. He might not even be so attractive anymore…I know this is what’s happened for me with nearly every man who came back…

  134.  #134Indigo on April 13, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Labbit 117,

    Like Dominique says, I don’t think they ever go away entirely. I’ve searched my abandonment fears deep within and discovered that they are here to stay as they’ve become a part of me in some way. I think we heal them little by little over time, and I think we get better at dealing with them.

    Having a gentle heart to heart with him next time you talk about how much it means to you to hear from him when he goes away might help. I did this with my ex-husband who used to go away for work for a few days every second month or so and often used to forget to keep in touch, and it did help.

    Are there any visualisations that help you? I ask because they help me a lot in situations like this. I imagine myself as a medieval princess standing atop the turrets of the castle gazing off into the distance, keeping watch, waiting for the men to return from battle. I imagine how strong and fearless those women were. Sometimes it would be years before they would see their men again. For me anyway, these romantic stories that I weave in my head help a lot.

  135.  #135Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    Indigo — Thank you. It’s good to hear I am not alone in this. When I was younger I never used to face these kind of fears in relationship, kind of annoyed with myself for whenever I grew them. 😉

    I like the idea of visualizing something, I’ll see what I can come up with later tonight…I like this…

  136.  #136Millie on April 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Labbit– your words feel very warm and inspiring.
    Before we became exclusive we talked about where we wanted things to go. He told me I was even more than what he wanted. We talked about the future, he said a lot of things…. And he did a lot of great things too. I just find it hard to beleive that the idea of commitment or being with one woman scared him away. He was initiating all of that.

    It’s sad for me to think that he isn’t the one… And that once again I am back to square one with looking for mr. Right. I feel so listless and sad… I knoe I should change my mentality but I can’t right now.

    Thanks you for being so inspiring I will keep re reading your words.

  137.  #137Azure Blu on April 13, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    Dominique teaches a visualization tool that I have found very effective…

    “Visualize one of the Best Times – Tool
    So this exercise is a great one to put into play at these times.
    Draw on memories and summon a time when you felt so good around him,
    so full of love, your own and his,
    so connected. You can embellish on this if you wish.
    See, hear, smell, and taste these images.
    Sink into them, for THIS IS YOUR REALITY,
    not the other stuff.
    This will not only help you to feel better and dissipate if not dispel the anxiety and the fear,
    it also clears your energy,
    so he will feel safer to come to you sooner,
    and he will heal himself around whatever it is more quickly.”

  138.  #138Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 6:20 pm


    I am sure that in the moment he said those things, he meant them. I am sure those things felt just as real to him as they did to you at the time. For whatever reason, he came to a point where he can not drive the relationship any further forward at this time. You are now free to draw in the next, even more amazing man.

    Men tend to choose women when they feel good around those women, when the woman adds something to his life that he can’t get from friends. So if you did your best to create those good moments, and you feel like the two of you grew into a deeper bond each time you saw each other…then really you need to release yourself from the idea that you did anything wrong or could have changed anything. And even if a moment or two, or something you said sticks out in your mind as perhaps ‘the moment things went wrong’…let it go. With the right man, those moments mean very little.

    You are not back to square one. Not at all. I have seen tremendous growth in you since the time I’ve been here. Look at the quality of men you are now attracting! I know this might be tough to hear and take in at this moment, but you will look back on this relationship as a stepping stone rather than the top of the mountain. Why not celebrate it instead? Celebrate the deep attraction you created in this man, celebrate how he wooed you and made you feel good. That the relationship might be ending barely means anything in the grand scheme of things. He’s simply being pushed aside by the Universe to make room for AN EVEN BETTER GUY. Where is the downside to that?!?

    You have every right to feel down right now, and if you need a bit of time to lick your wounds and detox from the experience that’s perfectly normal. But don’t let yourself go too long before you get back into the dating game.

    Imagine a man…a handsome man, a high-quality man, a man who’s relationship ready, a man who’s recently gotten out of a relationship. He starts going out to singles events. He makes an online dating profile. He flirts with women. At the singles events he gets one or two numbers. One number goes to a pizza place. The other number works, but he leaves a few messages and never gets a call back. Online he gets lots of winks and likes, and spends an hour each night for a month writing witty messages to women. Out of all those women, maybe 10 write him back. Of those 10, 4 flake out and disappear on him, 2 eventually tell him they’ve met someone else, and 3 lead to dates. Of those dates, only 1 is intriguing enough for a second date. She says no thanks. He goes on a blind date or two set up by friends but doesn’t feel a connection to the women. He flirts with women while out and about but after a month of effort, he doesn’t find anyone where there’s a mutual attraction. FINALLY, he messages someone on the dating site who replies back. They have witty banter and he can’t wait to meet her. They have a date and it goes very well. He asks her out again immediately. They click and for the next few months see each other all the time. Until after three months she says, sorry, I like you a lot but this just isn’t working for me. Good luck to you! He’s heartbroken.

    Now, pretend this man is a close friend of yours. He’s down in the dumps and feeling like he’ll never find a good woman, that something is obviously wrong with him. Do you let him give on up love? HECK NO. You give him a pep talk, you help him patch up his ego, and you set him on his way to get right back out there. You know that everything is going to turn out just fine for him — he’s handsome, he’s got a lot to give, and he’s going to make some lucky woman very happy. You know this for a fact.

    Why on Earth would you treat yourself any differently than this man who is your friend? You’re beautiful, you have a lot to give, and you’re going to make some lucky man very happy. I would ask you this — and I don’t mean to sound patronizing — why would you want to waste time feeling sad about something that wasn’t meant to work out? It’s like going to the pastry shop and being sad they’re out of croissants. Is your day ruined? No…you just get a sticky bun instead. 🙂 And guess what? You like that sticky bun WAY BETTER.

  139.  #139Labbit on April 13, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    136 Azure Blu — Ohhhhh, I LOVE this! Thank you, I think it’s just what I needed.

    On a related note, I decided to treat myself to dinner after work, and during that time I relaxed and let go of my yearning energy reaching out towards Tender. I kind of forgot about him for awhile.

    And of course, he’s called. 🙂 Apologizing for being MIA the last couple of days, knowing I was probably panicking a bit and feeling terrible about it. I love this man!!

  140.  #140Indigo on April 13, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    I don’t know Labbit, if I went to the pastry shop and they were out of croissants my day might be ruined 😉

  141.  #141Femininewoman on April 13, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    I kinda internally disagreed with Labbit a bit but there is no way my day would be ruined over a croissant. I disagreed because the comment suggest that this man is definitely not for Millie. I wonder how can we draw such a conclusion when the man is in a place where he is feeling like a loser because of his job, lack of finances and feeling his inability to be a real man providing for his woman. One of his deep masculine instincts to provide is being shortcircuited becomes of economics. He needs to feel like a man and maybe he is not feeling that way right now. I am sure he doesn’t want to be called a loser by his woman if he feels he has no purpose. Nor does he want to be called that by society who socialized him to “man up”.

    Just my two cents……

  142.  #142Millie on April 13, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    Femininewoman— to be clear he’s not in an economic rut. He’s actually making a lot of money due to overtime. I thinks the emotional and ohysical strain he feels at work and the politics that wears him down. His family issues are also serious. I agree that how can I know he’s not for me when he’s feeling like a loser, but I almost wonder if those are the moments that define a man as much as his successes. How he copes with that stress and how he is in the relationship while it’s happening. I am questioning if he’s right for me based in his actions and communication. The fact that he’s not choosing me right now is the biggest indicator.

  143.  #143Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:44 am

    Okay Millie I understand now maybe I misunderstood before. Yet the truth is nobody is perfect and as humans we are entitled to change our minds. If he has clearly told you that he is not choosing you right now then maybe at that time you could have told him thank you for being honest and let him know he can take all the time he needs however you will open yourself up to others to keep your options open to take care of your heart. He is taking care of his. You have to put your heart before him. Mechanic was it?? snoozed and he lost. It was the best thing you could have done for yourself, you proved it to yourself. He might have upgraded himself and will snap to in this space or this guy when he realizes he might lose you when you really start taking care of yourself he might snap to also. These make it or break it moments are times we can use to build up our emotional muscles and really prove to ourselves what we are really made of. Men want to know also that we can stand up for ourselves that no matter what you will be okay and not fall apart when they are not there to pick up the pieces of us. What if you got married tomorrow, got pregnant in a month only to find out that he has some terminal disease? Would your life fall apart? He would want to know that you can stand on your own two feet, take care of your kid, and not fall apart because he won’t be around. You never know. this situation could very well just be a test that he himself might not realize he is putting you through. At the end of the day the question is what is Millie going to do for herself, how will she honor herself, how will she take care of her heart, how is she putting herself first?

  144.  #144Indigo on April 14, 2015 at 2:51 am


    My comment was a joke because I really like croissants 😉


    This is how it goes. Men say all kinds of things in the beginning and then life happens and you get to see how serious they are. You are not back to the beginning. You have the strength to move forward from this and not let your self esteem be tied up in it. You have the strength to hold the space for him to come back if he will and to hold good boundaries.

  145.  #145Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 4:40 am

    LOL Indigo, I really love croissants too! In fact I specifically used them because I love them so much, but they aren’t always the best thing for me…nor are they in fact what I need in that moment.

    142 Femininewoman this is an excellent point. You are right that this man asked for space and is now taking it, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that things are over over. He may just need a couple of weeks to get his head on straight, feel whatever he needs to feel, make up his mind before he dives in headfirst. I just want Millie to feel that she is in a position of strength rather than one of scarcity or powerlessness. This is a time to take her space and do things that feel good to her, and given that the relationship is still young, to me that would include opening up to other men.

    I suppose from my perspective if a man stood me up for a date, and turned off his phone when I tried to call him, I would lean wayyyy back to see what he does. I definitely would not reach out to him and I’d set a deadline for when I need to hear from him by. I am willing to forgive depending on what the explanation is. But that would most likely be a deal-breaker for me. I can recall I was once dating a man, we’d gone on two or three dates. At the fourth date he didn’t show up at the promised time to pick me up. I waited an hour and then texted him, in a clear but not mean way to say I wasn’t sure what happened but since I hadn’t heard from him I was making other plans, and I hoped he was OK. He called back within 5 minutes to say he’d been in an accident, was at the hospital emergency room, and was so sorry to miss the date! That he hadn’t realized what time it was and forgot to call. Of COURSE I forgave him. He even rescheduled while in the emergency room. My point being, a man who is interested in you is not going to drop off the face of the Earth no matter what the circumstances. Because he’ll fear losing you. Even if he does need to go away for a bit or is somehow tied up, he’ll reach out as soon as he can to reassure you and smooth things over.

  146.  #146Millie on April 14, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Femininewoman— how funny that you brought up Mechanic! I had dinner with him tonight. And I finally told him after all this time the truth. A little late of course, but still felt nice to say and not care about.

    So, his phone was off again tonight. And no he didn’t directly tell me he wasn’t choosing me, he said he couldn’t give 100% and the last I heard from him was thank you. It’s very strange that his phone is off in the first place… He never did that. But two nights in a row? Something is up beyond me I beleive and I wonder if he’s ok… I’m questioning since this behavior is unusual for him, what if what’s happening isn’t what it seems… I’ll have to find out.

  147.  #147Kath on April 14, 2015 at 5:30 am

    Hey Sirens,

    Its wonderful to read these latest posts- Millie- it is a confusing and unsettling time but it is also a time to focus on you and what feels good for you, don’t focus or worry about him, or try not to anyway.

    My X of 8mths and I had no contact at all for 6mths but then arranged to gio out for the day together and just talked and remembered how well we got on together. Most of the anger had gone except for one bit of anger from me (I have to admit!) which I did let escape and I wish I hadn’t-it scared him off again, but only for a week. We had no contact again and I went about my business doing things that feel good to me and not worrying about him at all. Then yesterday he text me to tell me he’d been away but was back and asked me if I wanted to see a film with him. I’ve accepted because I want to- there is no hidden agenda for me. He said he wanted us to go “as good friends” but I think he is confused and uncertain about what that really means. I know he has never known anyone like me before and I also know that he needs to see me as the real me-the strong, self-confident, intelligent, gorgeous woman that I am and wish fast disappeared through insecurity and lack of self worth when he didn’t treat me the way I wanted to be treated. Now it is up to me to show him who I really am whilst being open to other possibilities and other contacts with men-and there are other possibilities!

  148.  #148Kath on April 14, 2015 at 5:33 am

    My spelling isn’t that great, sorry!- I meant “which fast disappeared” not “wish” lol!

  149.  #149Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 5:55 am

    Indigo, Millie, FeminineW & Labbit….
    Mmmmm… I am soaking up ALLLL this wonderful Siren Wisdom… the harmonious sound of the Siren Melody is soothing to my ears….

    All this support is sooo calming to me as I read through everyones thoughtful posts…
    Thank you!!!

  150.  #150Victoria on April 14, 2015 at 6:05 am

    Dearest ladies,
    It has been a while since I posted, but that is mostly because I have been travelling, and there is not much for me to report anyhow. F. has been great in keeping in contact while I was away… you know I have this feeling that things are moving in the right direction, the right direction being me being extremely accepting of his, hm, idiosincracies, and him trying really hard to please me.
    I so wish I had found Rori earlier… This is an amazing and transformational place, and I am so grateful to all of you. I am smiling to myself as I write this.
    He has in fact started making plans for the next date at the current date. And, I never told him he has to, he has come to this choice out of his free will. Strangely, I am very happy with myself for this. I am one very sly woman, you know, like a fox.

  151.  #151Victoria on April 14, 2015 at 6:15 am

    Once upon a time, I worked with a woman called N. She was a good looking woman, highly professional, and a mean bi*ch at work. She was very tough and very demanding.
    I was tremendously surpised one day when I heard her talking to her husband on the phone (who was, by the away, stunningly goodlooking). She was so mellow, her voice was like butter, and she was so kind to him, like talking to a favorite child. I have heard her after that on several occasions, she just turned into a completely different person talking to him. We were not friends, and I kind of disliked her, and to me this was one more confirmation that she was a mean, hypocritical bit*h. Now, 10 years or so later, I look at her in a totally different light, and I see she was a master siren… And, somehow, along my journey, I have picked up this skill of talking very very sweetly to the man… this never fails.

  152.  #152Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 6:33 am

    yesterday I textd Spirit this feeling Message that April Rose had given me….
    “I know times are tough for you right now and I admire and love the way you are handling all of this. Thing is, I miss you and our connection. You are so good at finding solutions…Is there something you can suggest that would feel good for both of us?”
    He text right back… and ask me to come and meet him at our hangout…
    He was acting like his old self… happy, smiling, hugging… being closer…
    He’s playing golf with his buddies again (it’s finally warm here!!!) AND he has 3-4 new clients!!!
    Soooo… he’s feeling much better…
    I shared with him how I was feeling confused…
    Since we had decided to be exclusive he seemed to have disappeared…
    Him:” Why are you always bringing this up?”
    Things are going good… can’t we just enjoy this?”

    WHAT!!!! I haven’t brought THIS up ever…
    the last time we talked about this HE brought it up…
    Soooo interesting that is how he sees this!!

    I did break my rule… I was NOT going to bring up relationship for 2 months… ONLY build on being kind, respectful and heart unzipped!!!

    We had a GREAT time…
    I shared how it would feel good if HE would initiate more things for us to do… I said I was feeling like i was chasing him…
    We planned to go to the city with my sister for an event…
    he did call me his girlfriend!!! :-))
    He talked about us retiring to Costa Rica – I mean he ask me specifically how much I get when I retire… which is embarrassingly small!!! But he seemed fine – He shared how much he will get… and how wonderful it would be to retire there!!

    of course we talked… danced. laughed and had great fun!!
    He talked about how much attention he gets
    when he is out with me…
    (we were getting lots of attention AGAIN that night).. like it frightens him…

    I feel confused about this making him uncomfortable?

    that all the men in my friends group have a thing for me (i’ve heard this before from other men)
    I said: “They are alll married… i need him there with me… (when I’m with my Friday group)
    He pulled me close and said “Do you need me to protect you?” I looked up at him and said YES!!!
    I need you to protect me”
    MMMMMM… he liked that

    I told him he gets lots of attention when he is out downtown dancing…
    When we got to my car I felt the need to say
    “Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying when we became exclusive…”
    Him: “Azure, I am being serious… please relax”
    Me: “I feel calmer hearing you say that..”
    then he did what he used to do when we go home…
    textd me all kinds of wonderful good nite things…

  153.  #153Victoria on April 14, 2015 at 6:48 am

    You are so sweet and charming!
    He must be crazy about you!
    May be you could start learning to play golf? Not asking him to teach you, but just start taking lessons on your own, to see whether this is something that you enjoy to the point of sharing this with him as a favorite hobby? Wouldn’t that be nice?
    Otherwise, I see you are looking for him to entertain you. As always, we need to give to ourselves what the man is not giving us…
    The other thing is, and he may not realize it, but unless he steps up and occupies all your time, you will have too much time on your hands and would need to go back to CDing. I am not sure whether there is a nice way to tell him this… but he will have to hear it eventually, one way or another…I feel sympathy for him.

  154.  #154Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 7:11 am

    I do love the story about your boss from years before…
    such a great inspiration… this is what I have been practicing – talking and being soft and sweet around my man… i know my tendency to focus on what isn’t working… I am changing that!! baby-step
    Thank you Azure!

    Also a great inspiration about F stepping up to plan dates ahead of time!!! without you even asking…

    Thank you for your insight into learning golf…
    I had thought about it…
    because of the time and money I don’t feel like now is a good time for me…
    Spirit spent allll last season spending time/money and teaching his daughter…
    He is feeling good about just playing golf this year..
    He is also a ballroom dancer..

    What I have realized in the past few months is how to entertain ME!!
    Sooo… I am learning Argentine Tango on my own…so he and I can do that together…
    And learning Italian
    and Volunteering more at my local food bank!!!
    All this is sooo GREAT and learning Tango is outside my comfort zone!!!
    I am no longer Bored with ME and loving *MY* life much more!!!

    and yes, I do have a cut off time with Spirit…
    He knows if he doesn’t step up I will cd again…
    BUT I wanted to show him and me
    how it feels to be exclusive
    now that we know each other more…
    and he has experienced MY boundaries…

    He knew exactly where I was going when I said to him last night
    “Maybe I missundertood what you meant when we decided to be exclusive”

  155.  #155Victoria on April 14, 2015 at 7:25 am

    I suppose yes, he did know exactly what you have in mind. I also think that, when men act like they are clueless, they need to be told… give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply clueless. I also think that they never want to intentionally hurt us but many are just not used to seeing further than their own nose.
    Back on golf (hope you do not mind me bringing back this topic), you know, if this is something that he enjoys so much, and you have long term plans, like retiring together (just between you and me, ok ;-)) you need to either 1) learn to play and join him, or 2) find something satisfactory to do while he is playing. In my country there is a type of women we call “the golf widows” – and most of them have a lover on the side because really the husbands are gone for days… Just my two cents.

  156.  #156Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Ahhh… lovely Siren,,,
    such a very helpful reparte…

    The last time I started cding again
    (I cd for 4 months until he convinced me this time we should be exclusive – he compromised on Many issues)
    after Spirit and I had been exclusive for 2 months.

    He said “I am heartbroken why have you decided to date others? ”
    Me: “ohhh… darling Spirit… I don’t want to date anyone but you… but you said you didn’t have time for a girlfriend”
    He hadn’t actually said that BUT his ACTIONS said that load and clear…
    Soooo he has experienced me cding because he didn’t spend much time or stay connected
    by being withdrawn for too much time for my liking…

    AND yes… i love what you have shared here about golfing… I will reconsider…
    Maybe I can start by collecting golf clubs etc.
    slowly by asking gf if they know of any cheep ones…

    My gf is an avid golfer and so is her bf – they do golf together… and bowl together
    BUT there are weekends and a week or so every year where he goes off with the boys for their golfing extravaganza…

  157.  #157Indigo on April 14, 2015 at 8:10 am


    Lol on the golf widows. This reminds me of my ex-husband and his family. Azure Blu, if you don’t necessarily feel like you want to play golf with him, why not take a stroll around the course with him while he plays, or have lunch or cocktails in the clubhouse, if that might feel like fun to you? Some country clubs have other sports or even day spas that you could go to at the same time, and meet up with him afterwards. I mention this because this is what I did, my ex husband loved to play golf and I had no interest in it, but I also didn’t want to be left behind.

    Azure Blu,

    Having said that, I am concerned that you are having to reach out with Spirit to connect. For me, it would feel concerning or confusing for a man to pursue me to be exclusive and then disappear for days at a time. Hm. I feel glad you have a timeline for this. It seems like you’ve got this. But I do wish that Spirit was making more of an effort… trying to shush your fears with “Just relax”, I don’t know, it wouldn’t feel great for me. But you are such a smart Siren, I know you will take good care of yourself!


  158.  #158Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Yes, you have a good point… I have tried learning golf…
    It certainly would get me out of my comfort zone even more…

    And yes, I agree… those words of “just relax” were what switched me into cding before…
    BUT I feel confident (easier said than done) with my timeline…
    And being exclusive is soooo good for me…
    I can see *ME* more clearly
    when I have more at stake
    and I can’t just ignore what is bothering ME!!

    i LOVE to push things under the rug and NOT say anything… which is one of the things that has destroyed all of my relationships thus far..

    I got to practice asking with feeling messages how we can solve this that works for both of us…
    I”VE NEVER said that to anyone!!!
    AHHHH i feel so PROUD of me…
    being vulnerable like that feels like
    Alll my skin has been pulled back…
    and HE got to feel how close *I* can get
    while it is just him and me working this out!!!
    this feels like a BIG step…
    i want to feel how good and wonderful that is
    for ME and for our Relationship!!!

  159.  #159Lovergirl on April 14, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Well, I had a nice trip to Chicago. The guy took me out to a comedy show and we stayed in his hi-rise condo on Lake Michigan with huge windows and a beautiful view. He took me to a very nice, expensive steak house for dinner that ran him over $200 and out again in the morning to a lovely diner. Plus, he paid for my rental vehicle back home to pick up my kids.

    I had a nice time but the whole time, I couldn’t stop thinking about S. I missed him terribly. It’s like doing fun things makes it worse.

    Plus, sexually, its like being with another man kind of makes my skin crawl. I found this guy to be kind of needy about things and it was annoying me too. I felt guilty for feeling that way because he had been so nice, but I just get irritated when someone is constantly wanting to know what I want and trying to “please” me. I much prefer a “take charge” kind of man in the bedroom. He wanted to be with me every second and would act hurt if I closed the bathroom door while applying makeup and that was making me feel a bit suffocated.

    Anyhow, right as I got on the plane to leave, S called. People were still boarding and I answered and told him I was on a plane. He said he wanted his house key back and I told him I’m not driving to give it to him but I will leave it in my mailbox and he can come get it.

    I felt very angry with him all of a sudden and when we hung up I kind of snapped. I told him off via text before embarking on my flight. While I was in the air though, I had time to think (and cry) a little.

    I texted when I landed and told him the truth. I told him I missed him something awful and that the whole trip all I could think about was how I would rather be sharing it with him. He said he could tell it was a sincere message and very sweet.

    We’ve talked and texted quite a bit since then and he’s been bombarded with lots of “feeling messages” (probably thanks to PMS). He said in there that he wishes that we had met under different circumstances. He said “no one else talks to me the way you do- I feel very much wanted by you and that is VERY sexy because guys don’t get that feeling a whole lot”.

    I’m not sure how to interpret that. Is that how I want him to feel or is that bad, if he uses that language to describe how he feels with me- “wanted”?

    Anyhow I also admitted to feeling jealous that he is dating someone else and he said that he doesn’t think he is going to pursue anything with her. I said it hurt that he would date other people and not me and he said he can’t date someone with the expectation of things “not working”. Then he got kind of angry about my trip to Chicago, saying it was super hypocritical of me to to say all this when I just spent the weekend f-ing some other guy and being wined and dined and entertained. He said I am “obviously willing to seek out and take advantage of new opportunities as they present themselves.”

    I told him if at any point he had indicated he wanted to be with me I would have cancelled that trip in a heartbeat. I admitted that I would pick him over anyone and that it was hard to be with someone else. He didn’t comment so I said I guessed he could come pick up his key the next day.

    I also asked if he would mind taking me to pick up my vehicle from the shop (a 45 minute drive) and he immediately answered that yes he would. So this evening he is driving me and I guess we will have more of a chance to talk. I’m not sure if it will be the last time or not or if he really wants his key back. :/

  160.  #160Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 8:45 am

    I think April Rose said this so well:
    “Seeing him tonight means a chance to be with ME more deeply.
    By searching into my deepest feelings,
    I can discover MORE about MYSELF in
    his presence
    than I can alone.
    Really, there is very little to discover about HIM. Making it about him is what has been my past pattern.

    Maybe the new sensation of fear and dread is because I realise that relationship needs to be about ME.

    And if I don’t start accessing and sharing my feelings out loud, He will NEVER get to see the authentic ME…
    And I am going to get annoyed and bored and judge him as unworthy.”
    As Rori teaches us….What causes true intimacy, Safety and THRILLS for your man is ME sharing the deeper aspects of ME.

  161.  #161Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Oh my gosh Lovergirl. This “but I just get irritated when someone is constantly wanting to know what I want and trying to “please” me” just jumped at me off the screen.

    Can’t you see how it is how men try to make us happy because it is hardwired in them to make us happy. yet we push away the very thing that we want so much. If we could just learn to recognize these things about ourselves we could change our patterns and create paradise. Here is a man wanting to make you happy for whatever reason and there you are longing for another man who is chasing after another woman. This makes me really wonder at times about if there is something wrong with us. Or maybe is it because you really don’t want to have sex with him but is doing it out of a kind of duty/obligation as opposed to for pleasure.

    “its like being with another man kind of makes my skin crawl” this is a reason why I have found it so hard to wrap my head around the concept of taking a lover or easily moving from one man to the next. As a woman I have been unconsciously judgmental of women who do it because it just seems so contrary to my female nature. I more tolerable now than I was in the past but boy is it hard for me to really navigate.

    Seems you said he responded that he doesn’t mind taking you to get your car? These little things is what help him to feel wanted. Not necessarily about the sex or relationship only. I would not encourage you to bring up the topic about the relationship though. However, he would have no doubt about the sadness I feel about where things are at through my body language and facial expressions. He would get to feel my sadness.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 10:56 am

    “he said he can’t date someone with the expectation of things “not working”.

    It seems he has established in his head that things will not work. It is a choice he has made for whatever reason. It might again be your kids. For all I know he has someone in his life who knows about you who teases him to embarrassment about being a daddy to another man’s 5 kids. Men can really be harsh on each other so it could be a friend that he holds in high regard. What that tells me is that he is using his logical brain. He talks about feeling wanted by you which shows you have gone under his radar to his emotional brain, which is where you want to be. So my advice would be to continue to connect there. We as women want to be around our men all the time but I do believe that when we build moments that have deep positive emotional connections the men’s brains go back there to recreate the loving feelings. Then when they aren’t around you this is what they miss deeply and want to reconnect.

  163.  #163Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 11:09 am

    Millie I am not sure you have to know. Unless I guess you were sleeping with him and your intuition is telling you that now he is sleeping with another woman. Then maybe yes to asking him “if there is something you need to know or he needs to tell you”. Pushing however on him to share before he is ready is only likely to push his internal resistance button, bringing up another woman might push his defense button. However, leaving him alone is likely to push his curiosity button or chase button. Maybe even his loss and regret button which will have him questioning himself about whether he made a mistake. You pulling him out of his cave could just qualify you in his mind as desperate. How long have you been dating? Has he put marriage on the table at any time?

  164.  #164Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Azure while I do love the advice about golf learning I also feel resistant about it. Reason being that so many women lose themselves in the relationship as they are trying to turn themselves into what the man want. Having said that I would say if the sport interests you that much then learn enough to be able to play with him at times. Otherwise in choosing trust I do believe it is best if it is discussed with him about you playing with him to see if it is something he would enjoy too.

  165.  #165Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Ahhh lovely, wise Siren…
    Yes… you know he has NEVER offered to teach me or for me to join him…
    on the other hand we have danced often and he is very much encouraging me with my lessons!!!

    I agree with you.. right now the dance lessons are enough for me… My plate if VERY full with work and all my new extra curricular fun things I am doing…

    When we retire to Costa Rica… I can see if I want to learn then… LOL ;-))

  166.  #166Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    158 Lovergirl — when he says that you make him feel wanted, yes in my mind that’s a VERY good thing. As Femininewoman has said, it shows that you’ve gotten past his thinking-doing-planning mind and into his emotional brain which is where true connection lies. Perhaps he was contrasting you with the woman he is currently dating, who you’ve reported as very independent and him saying she won’t let him do much of anything for her.

  167.  #167Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    That gets me thinking, what kind of things do you ladies do to show your man that he’s needed and wanted?

    I’m feeling curious about this, as I tend to be a woman who’s used to doing things for myself, and this is an area I’d love to open up in more.

    Some things I’ll ask Tender to do for me/with me:
    – go to the hardware store with me to pick out the right light bulb for my apartment’s built-ins, or the right screw/bolt/whatever
    – turn off the correct circuit breaker and help me change said light bulbs
    – ask him to open jars or corked wine bottles when we’re cooking together
    – give me a ride somewhere outside the city (i.e. a doctor, friend’s house, intramural game, etc.)
    – change the sheets on the bed
    – get something down from a high-up shelf
    – put together things (furniture, shelves, etc.)
    – prep parts of dinner while I’m cooking

    What else?

  168.  #168Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Labbit on a recent date I was with a guy I was not sure would be comfortable with me leaning forward. However I was limping from pain in my hip and I really didn’t care what he thought or held any expectation of him really wanting to, but I put my arm through his when leaving the restaurant while saying I am going to take you arm. For goodness sake I was limping and this is a guy who I had felt his energy cringe away from me. In any event he had is arm up against his body and started talking to one of the waiters. I stood there with my arm in his at first wondering if I had overstepped but then I dropped that thought. We walked towards the door arm in arm. He leaned forwarded leaving me feeling protected as he opened the door. I was significant for me because he has resisted chivalry in the past. I believe it is to avoid giving me any kind of impression or hope. In any event he walked me to the car, opened the door and ensured that I was securely in and asked if I was okay before he locked the door and went around. This is the first time since I have known him that he responded to me like he felt that I needed him. I have only pretty much asked him for advice around the kids so I have gotten the impression that he thought I was looking for a dad for the kids not someone for romance

  169.  #169Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Millie Leigha Lake just sent out an email that seems to me to speak to your situation. Have you reached out to her, she is one of Rori’s new coaches offering a first free session.

  170.  #170Lovergirl on April 14, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    Femininewoman 160/161-

    Part of it is that it feels kind of obligatory, but I also just get really turned off when a guy is bending over backwards to please me (in bed anyway). I guess it seems feminine and submissive and it bothers me. I also feel so pressured when a guy is like “what can I do, what do you want me to do, how can I make you orgasm?” I want him to man up and figure it out on his own. :p Life would probably be easier if I could make myself attracted by this, but I find it very difficult.

    I can have casual sex when I’m completely unattached to anyone, but once I am it becomes more difficult. This is why, even though we started out swinging, for months I couldn’t have sex with anyone but S. I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.

    He was very sweet about taking me to get my car. We didn’t talk almost at all though on the drive. He said I looked and smelled nice and asked about my perfume (he’s said before that he really likes this one). I was surprised he noticed since we weren’t sitting that close and never touched each other.

    He commented that I was quiet and I said I wasn’t feeling very good. He said you mean physically and I said no and he changed the subject. When I got out of the car I gave him his key and said it made me sad to be giving it back to him. He pretty much ignored my comment like I hadn’t said anything.

    I texted him after and thanked him for the ride and again said it made me feel sick to give him his key back and that I felt sad. He again, completely ignored my comment and just responded “you are very welcome”.

    I kind of feel like he is deliberately thwarting any attempts at making this seem like its “the end” of us talking to each other. I know he doesn’t like just cutting off relationships with people. So even though I’m feeling sad and kind of scared we will never talk again, I have a feeling we will.

    On the drive they were having callers in on the radio, asking if it was “petty” for a woman to dump a man just because the sex was bad, if he was great in every other way, handsome, financially stable, treated her well, etc. S asked me what I thought and I said no, it wasn’t “petty” because I think the sex is important.

    The female callers disagreed, lol. One said the man paying her bills was like an orgasm and of course S didn’t like that, ha! He was like the sex can’t be THAT bad, its not that hard to be good in bed. I said uh, there are a lot of guys out there that aren’t.

    He said well there are a lot of women that aren’t that good in bed either. According to him many just “lay there”. I don’t think he was talking about me, though I don’t really do anything special in bed- I know he likes the sex with me and that I am at least responsive. I kind of hope he is talking about the new woman, lol. It would be great for me if she not only makes him feel emasculated but is a dead fish in bed!

    Anyway, I said if the sex is bad it usually means there is some other underlying issue with the relationship, and he agreed. The commentators were saying that sometimes women stick around way too long just because the sex is good and S said sometimes that is true of men too. I HOPE he wasn’t talking about me there. He once before claimed that he felt it was the sex that was making him “too attached” to me and thought that if we stopped he wouldn’t feel that way. Well it didn’t work that time and its been over two months now since we have slept together, so I would say its much deeper than that.

    As far as his comment about it “not working” he has said over and over again that it is because of the kids. The funny thing is, of all the men I have ever met, S has the sweetest, best attitude TOWARDS my kids of anyone. He has not met them personally (he won’t because he is afraid he will get attached) but any time I talk about them he is very positive about them.

    Where most men seem to take a very angry, authoritarian, attitude about my oldest son and his difficult behavior, S is much more understanding. He’s the only person I’ve ever felt might actually be able to handle him if we were together. It’s like he puts himself in his shoes.

    Today when he came to pick me up my oldest rode by on his bike and I waved at him. S asked if that is my son and was like “awwww, your son!” as though he thought it was sweet.

    I suspect his biggest deal with me having 5 kids, is what his dad would think. I know he feels like he has disappointed his father in other ways, like getting kicked out of the prestigious college he attended for awhile and having to pay back thousands of dollars. His dad thinks he should have been married “5 years ago” too so there is pressure there as well. His older sister was pretty much disowned by their dad (though she is not his biological child) when she got pregnant out of wedlock as a teenager so I think that was a huge fear for S too, when I was pregnant. Not only 5 kids, but 5 white kids, which I’m sure would irritate dear old dad some more!

  171.  #171Lovergirl on April 14, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    Femininewoman- your quote here-
    “What that tells me is that he is using his logical brain. He talks about feeling wanted by you which shows you have gone under his radar to his emotional brain, which is where you want to be. So my advice would be to continue to connect there. We as women want to be around our men all the time but I do believe that when we build moments that have deep positive emotional connections the men’s brains go back there to recreate the loving feelings. Then when they aren’t around you this is what they miss deeply and want to reconnect.”

    I so hope you are right. I so hope he FEELS this with me. I feel like we have a very good emotional connection, so some time away, may be what he needs to really realize it. Keeping my fingers crossed while somewhat reluctantly dating others. :/

  172.  #172Lovergirl on April 14, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    Labbit 165/166-

    I hope so!! I wonder if his comment about “feeling wanted” is really about feeling appreciated/loved/getting his ego stroked. I do tend to let him know I think he’s pretty great. It’s genuine because I really feel that way.

    I can’t really think of much I have asked him to do for me. Usually he’s the one telling me to go get this or that for him, especially since he’s been my boss. If something is heavy and I need him to carry it he will (all while making jokes about being my “beast of burden”) and he will reach things that are up high or put them up for me (while pretending to be put out). He’s always got to make a joke out of it or feign exasperation when I do ask him something, but I think he secretly enjoys it.

    He loves to “instruct” me on how to do things that I am clueless about. I suppose teaching me things that he knows how to do makes him feel good. I guess its fortunate that I am clueless about some things then- huh? 😉

  173.  #173Kim on April 15, 2015 at 4:47 am

    Hm. I have noticed that my guy has recently become a little less communicative and less giving…not sure if I am just nitpicking. We used to do much more, at his pad. He would cook for me and we would spend weekends there, go boating etc. Now I am cooking more, paying for groceries…I paid for the boat launch…and I am angry with myself because really, I can’t afford to do this anyway. Why do I feel like I have to start giving like this?
    Recently, he has been so involved with moving, it has already taken him almost three months…three months! I have never known anyone who takes three months to move.
    Everything is complicated. I feel mentally exhausted…every little thing is a ‘complication’ in his mind. Things that just need an email to management for a bike key, for example, get blown into a problem.
    I feel scared. It is kind of worrying me that our personalities are so different. I worry that I am selling myself short and I am beginni g to wonder….has he even the capability to ever buy a house, or propose, when he takes small simple every day happenings and turn them into a production. A problem.
    I feel like my life is going to turn into a problem.
    We discussed trash cans already for a week. Trash cans. He wants to have three. For recycling. I have a TINY kitchen. I take my trash out once a day for that reason. I have jardly space for one, but he needs three and has said we could always put them into the closets. Trash in my closets?
    I am a very light hearted, risk taking, fun loving girl and I am beginning to feel suffocated already.
    He is moving in next week…supposedly.
    I am afraid, that he will move and everything is going to stagnate and we will be cramped in a studio…forever. He has not been looking for houses at all, which was the ‘deal’.
    In fact, I am wondering if I am really wrong in letting all this happen without the ring, the house, the future planning…I feel I am going to get stuck here. When I think about this, I feel like crying, like ‘why do I still believe I deserve LESS’.

    It has taken him three months to move from a one bedroom condo…and not finished yet. I find myself thinking that this is as far as we can go. I have been so patient.
    Yesterday, we had our one weekly date (our dates have reduced because he was busy with moving and I have been understanding). We met with friends. It was a free appetizer evening and one free drink…it was an event I was invited to.
    …..we had to pay for the second round of drinks (bearing in mind everything else was free), and I remarked that the drinks in the place were not cheap. He paid and then said that yea, he was surprised that my drink (a mixed one), cost the same as his beer, which he found ridiculous…wow…I felt bad, like I was out of order….this is the third time now, the other day I ordered a club soda (!) and he remarked that he finds it ridiculous places charge for water. I was so thirsty and felt like a change from regukar water. He went on and on, and the same scenario happened a few weeks back, and I said ‘ you know, next time I won’t get one’. It was a couple of bucks.
    I felt my sensibilities kind of violated. I felt like I was not worth a club soda. This is all new btw.
    I don’t know.
    I love him, he is great in so many ways….but…I feel things are changing and not for the better and I feel off balance, like I am giving all my power and CDing away for arguments over trash cans and simple things, when I would rather talk about house hunting, getting married or other big ticket items.
    Last night, I got pretty upset…we had hardly time to talk all evening on our once weekly date right now, and as we got home, late, and went to bed, he turned away from me and started texting…now, he often texts with his work friends after work…sometimes all night, which I kinda find weird anyway but that’s his thing. Yesterday it bothered me..I remarked ‘is it something important?’. He said nothing, normally he will make a remark what they are chatting about…nothing.
    I got up and checked my work emails, as I felt bad just lying there alone….and, in fact, I think he was texting his ex and didn’t want to tell me.
    Not that it’s any of my business of course, whatever, but I don’t wanr this whole sneaky behaviour late at night…when we were supposed to go to bed and chat or whatever.
    Even if it was his work colleagues, which I doubt, I felt kinda put aside…I do not hear from him when he is at work, at all….often…so I am feeling discarded when he has to text with his colleagues he sees all day, all week, on a 4 hour date with me. Or his ex!
    And then be secretive about it.
    I am probably just getting cold feet, but…I feel concerned that I am selling myself short..and my future..and now, I feel it is too late to change it. Ugh.

  174.  #174Kim on April 15, 2015 at 5:40 am

    This thing about setting oneself a timeline is a great tool, I believe. I hve done that a while back, so until then I will see how it goes a d feels. The point is that I have also promised myself that after we have talked about it a few times, and usually me bringing it up….I am not going to mention the future anymore…because at the end of the day, I do want a man who moves things forward and I am done bringing stuff up, other than things in the here and now.
    It would feel bad to push a man into anything, and have that on my mind potentially for the rest of my life…no no.
    If this is not meant to go any further, then it is not meant to and I will be happy regardless. That much I know.
    I have been very patient and often gone against my personality here, in waiting and watching and sitting back.
    I am not going to be doing that forever though…no,

  175.  #175Darelle on April 29, 2015 at 10:40 am

    I’m Single. sexy ass.

  176.  #176Heather on June 8, 2015 at 10:06 am

    I have been dating a gentleman on and off for four years. We have broken up over these years and even dated other people. At one point he wanted me to look at wedding rings however, I did not feel ready and I wanted to date other people. I keep going back to him, maybe because he feels “safe” to me. The other night we were hugging in bed (we do not live together however, we spend the night together a few times a month when My daughter is gone) and I commented that I felt disconnected and we never talked about the future. He responded that he did not know now whether he ever wanted to marry but that he loved me. I said, “wow” I feel sad and I want to go to sleep. He said that he wanted to take me home. I said, “wow” I feel really bad. He took me home and he said, “Heather you want someone that can talk and share and I am not that person”. Since then he has text me, “So Sorry I just want to be honest about where I am right now” I text him back (he doesn’t pick up the phone usually if there is a conflict) “I think we are on the same timeline, thank you” but I do not know if I can stay in a relationship where there is not a deeper connection. Please tell me what you think.
    I feel sad and I also think perhaps it might be for the best. But I still feel sad.