3 Types Of Men Who Aren’t Date Worthy Of You!

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Here’s a great guest post from my July Interviewee Lisa Copeland.  I love Lisa (and feel like I discovered her) – you’ll want to go to her site and pick up her free stuff and read everything she’s got at http://www.FindAQualityMan.com:

3 Types of Men Who Aren’t Date Worthy of You!

by Lisa Copeland

#1 The Busy Man.  He can’t commit to you more then a few days in advance.

He’ll make plans then changes them at the last minute leaving you all alone to fend for yourself.  Or he’s busy with work or his family so he can’t commit to making plans with you more then a few days in advance. He loves spontaneity and you’ll have “the best time” when he comes through for you this way.

You’ll hope he’s changing, wanting to be with you more often because you had so much fun together.

You’ll never be able to consistently rely on this man plus you’ll always be at the bottom of his totem pole -never being a true priority for him.  You want a man that puts you and your relationship in the #1 or #2 spot on his list.  If he can’t find consistent time for you now, how will he ever find the time to plan a future with you?

#2 The Depositor.  He only calls you late at night and never makes plans to get together with you in real life.

Men love connecting with women on an emotional level and that’s what this man’s doing with out having to commit to you in anyway.  He’ll call you nightly telling you how much you mean to him and how he can’t share his thoughts and feelings this way with anyone else in his life.

When he’s done giving you his daily details, he’ll apologize for monopolizing the conversation then ask you how your day went.  That’s when you’ll hear the soft snoring begin because he’s released his day to you and now he can rest peacefully.  Sounds like another activity doesn’t it?

If this man wanted a real relationship, he’d make time for you during the day and he’d make plans to see you in person. Let another woman have this job-you deserve a man who wants to have a real physical and emotional presence in your life.

#3 The Man Child.  He pouts or gets huffy when you don’t drop everything to hang out with him.

He doesn’t recognize you each have your own lives as well as the one you’ve created together. If he could, he’d figure out a way for the two of you to be joined at the hip 24/7.  He’d never leave your side except to go to work then he’d run right home wanting to do something only with you.

Being desired by a man this way is so rare that it feels great in the beginning but over time it becomes wearing to have someone in your life who has no life without you.  You’ll discover that he’s a man who’s clingy and needy.

Watch out for these kinds of men who are out there trying to date women everyday.  If you’re dating this type of man STOP NOW!  Don’t allow yourself to settle just because you want a man in your life today.

Men like this will only take from you giving very little back.  You deserve to have a grown up man who realizes the importance of giving you both the space and the room to enjoy the life you each brought with you into the relationship.

From Rori – Lisa’s personal story is so captivating, you’ll want to know how she did what she did (so you can do it too), and her philosophy and coaching are so no-nonsense and yet kind, gentle and really heartfelt. you can find her at http://www.FindAQualityMan.com

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 6:57 am

    Men like this will only take from you giving very little back. You deserve to have a grown up man who realizes the importance of giving you both the space and the room to enjoy the life you each brought with you into the relationship.

  2.  #2Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 7:14 am

    Lord – I’ve dated all of these men!!! NEXT! Lol

    Maybe Duke will be worthy – so far he does not seem to fit any of these types!

  3.  #3lk on July 5, 2012 at 7:32 am

    femininewoman, i feel curious… do you enjoy the work you do to earn dollars ?

  4.  #4Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 7:37 am

    lk I do but believe that I have hit a glass ceiling as far as earnings go. I am constantly looking for new avenues to enter. But yes I enjoy what I do and I feel appreciated by the people around me.

  5.  #5Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 7:38 am

    lk why do you ask?

  6.  #6Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 7:40 am

    SA – From Previous thread – I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned that when these things happen with his kids and with him not hearing or understanding how you feel about it, you want to go home to your own place, but your 7 year old gets upset.

    Can you tell us why you think he gets upset? Does he feel safe and good in the home you are sharing with your man and his kids? Or is there something about your own home that your son does not want to go back to?

    As a mother, and a step-mother, I understand how you are feeling. I had to work very hard to balance the needs of my step-children and the needs of my own kids when they came along and the way I felt about everyone. I can see why you would be upset if the man’s kids are really doing something that is going to emotionally or physically harm your own child, but have you actually stepped back and tried to view the situation from your child’s point of view? Why does he want to stay there? A child usually knows more than we sometimes give them credit for…

  7.  #7Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 7:42 am


    I so appreciate whenever anyone responds to me and I read on here ALL the time and sometimes just don’t post…..

    It’s okay if you don’t resonate with my cards, they did give me the ooomph I needed to go the next step with my advertising…..

    but I really listen to what you write and incorporate it into my life….

    i know i am an infrequent poster but even if i am not posting, i think of you all, i really do, but somedays i just work all day and into the night….


    my question is:

    was that chasing to ask a CD to call me through a text when I was emotionally really upset, having a post traumatic stress reaction to my son being sick for a long time, fearing he is relapsing? This CD really enjoys being there for me in this way, but is not ready to really date me, so I felt I was chasing him.

    Thanks for seeing me, that feels validating to me and healing…..

  8.  #8Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:02 am

    HW if you “feel” you were chasing him then you were. That is you answer. However, what is the feeling you have in your body that supports this thought?

    Do you get the latest enewsletter?

  9.  #9Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:05 am

    “Jane’s experience of “wanting to see” her man because an event she was going to was close to his house was actually a very aggressive thought. I know that’s hard to hear – but it’s an aggressive (not simply assertive) impulse to think that because you’re going to be in his “neighborhood” you should somehow let him know and hope he’ll invite you over.

    And you make it even worse by trying to accomplish this by dropping a “hint.” That’s a maneuver that ANY man would consider “Playing Games,” and it propelled Jane into a whole mental state of “strategizing.”

    THAT’S why it all feels so “unnatural” to her. Because it ISN’T natural. The natural thing to do would be to FORGET about him unless he’s either on the phone with her or right in front of her.

    When Jane says she “casually” mentioned the dinner – WE know she didn’t FEEL casual at all! Again, that’s why it felt unnatural.”

  10.  #10lk on July 5, 2012 at 8:07 am

    femininewoman, i enjoy reading your stories about how you interact with others at work & your attitude about work… & i’m noticing that my little girl is very “angry” about the “work” that i do daily to earn dollars. i feel that it is out of alignment with my goals, despite the fact that i technically “do” “work” that i “enjoy”…. i am practicing opening my ears to hear guidance on the next turn on my path….. i’m feeling a little “lost” : )) thank you for sharing with me about your experience : )

  11.  #11lk on July 5, 2012 at 8:12 am

    healing waterfall, i feel sad to read about your son. when i picture you, i always imagine a young writer, really brilliant, a woman like joan didion or my writing major advisor from school…. really sensitive…. really sweet & beautiful with a face like a fairy & movements like dancing : ) i feel sad & sensitive for you when i read about you txtng a man who “isn’t ready” to support your feminine energy in the ways for which you hunger. (((((healing waterfall))))) also, i miss you when you don’t post : )))

  12.  #12Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 am

    When I was angry at work it was mostly because I felt unappreciated by the people around me, supervisors etc. When that changed and new people rotated in, some came in that saw and affirmed my strengths. What my challenge now is in going to a new environment where this does not exist. Respect and appreciation is important to me, even in my work environment. I have that now and even though it is not always publicly acknowledged I feel assured that it is there and feel comfortable even in the silence.

  13.  #13siren song on July 5, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Hmmm guy who loves me was a bit like the third type…he was all over me all the time and would be very angry if i didn’t call or tell him what i was up to. I’d get texts at 2am on a saturday asking ‘where are you? Who are you with?’

    And (this made me feel leery) he wanted to eat dinner together and sleep together every day, but without plans for the future.

  14.  #14Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Siren Song – my ex husband was that 3rd type all the way – RUN . . . OMG, he smothered me to death! It took me years to get up the courage to leave him because I knew he would act like he could not have a life without me – it is an awful relationship to get into! He gave NOTHING back – just took and took and took from me.

  15.  #15Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 am

    FW #8

    Wow, thanks for that clarifying question. Yes, even though I was chasing him, it was and did feel normal. So I felt into it and saw that it did not feel safe for me to be in feminine receiving mode, again, but saw it much more clearly this time, that there is a belief in me that if I don’t reach out, the love won’t be there for me….

    so thank-you very much, I get it on a much deeper level now, just from you asking the question…..thank-you this is a deeper level of healing and trust I will attain.

  16.  #16lk on July 5, 2012 at 8:35 am

    thank you, femininewoman……..

  17.  #17siren song on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 am

    He also one broke up with me for not inviting him to xmas six months after christmas. And booking a business trip without him.

    He really thought of us as spouses, but without the actual marriage. Or the house together.

    I felt so stressed out at the end because he’d rage at me for not being in contact all the time and for dating other guys.

    I miss him but i don’t miss that relationship. It was all about him.

  18.  #18Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Maybe it felt normal because you were sharing your vulnerability? However, judging it as chasing by thinking that way will be in your vibe and he will feel it. Sometimes this doesn’t make sense to me so I try to pay attention to my body. As if I feel my hands reaching out to grab him or feel like my torso is leaning forward. At those times I choose not to. However, if I can focus on leaning back physically, in my thoughts and energy while doing the waterwheel and really believe that the Universe wants to support me then I will ask. Particularly if it is a man I am not invested in. I believe your work is in the thinking that you are chasing him. If there is no particular investment in seeing him then why would your mind be thinking of it as chasing?

  19.  #19Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 am

    lk #11

    wow, i feel really touched by your compassion. Yes, it feels challenging to trust that my son is healthy and/or to get more neutral with him living or dying….but he is healthy now, just saying, it is not the best to be anxious…..
    i loved what you said about me and how you imagine me and i feel so supported by what you wrote about feeling sad and sensitive about me texting a man who is not ready to support me……i am ready for that kind of support…..


    i hope that you receive guidance today and in the coming days about what ways your work could support you more….do you mean spiritually, creatively, intellectually…..what is it you crave that you are not getting at work?

  20.  #20Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:41 am

    siren song that is a great distinction to make because I believe it can help you in developing the vision of the relationship you want so you can articulate it clearly.

  21.  #21siren song on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Yes, i think he wanted a different relationship too, one where he was catered to a lot. He was catered to in his previous relationships and as a kid.

    I definitely was not!

    Funny now though that i’ve not contacted him for so long any conversations are about me and my mother’s health.

    I don’t think i could ever go back with him, as much as i miss his body and the great times we had.

  22.  #22Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:00 am

    CF was a bit like guy #1

  23.  #23Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:06 am

    siren song if that is all he knew as a child and in previous relationships please know that is all he is trained to know and was capable of. He needs to be trained otherwise to do otherwise. Sometimes men upgrade themselves based on our boundaries however only you can decide if you want to be in an expanding relationship with him where you help each other grow. His message might be that some men do need your help in learning how to be with you.

  24.  #24Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:07 am

    I am remembering more of my dream from last night. I remember we were running through some skyscraper downtown, but it wasn’t CF explicitly. It was like it was CF but with much shorter hair (CF has hair as long as mine), although it didn’t look at all like him… I just assumed it was. And we were “freeing our minds” from “the matrix” and I was showing him the way, and we were escaping our captors, and I could feel that CF had “come back to me.”

    But it wasn’t CF at all. It was the guy I keep visualizing! And as soon as I had doubts about his love for me, he morphed right back into CF, long hair and all. Then I spent the rest of the dream agonizing over how to get CF to love me again, lol. lame.

  25.  #25Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Starla – lame feels to me like you judging yourself. That feels sad. I believe our dreams come from our unconscious mind trying to guide us somehow.

  26.  #26Siren Angel on July 5, 2012 at 9:15 am

    Calypso @6,

    Yes, my son wants to stay there (and continue playing of course). However he is a shy intellectual type and his kids are more active and rowdy and he totally gets overpowered by them (ie can’t play video games with them but has to watch!). I feel afraid he is somehow dependent on the fact that if he stays he has other kids to play with but if we go home, he has no kids to play with and may actually therefore prefer to be occasionally mistreated…. I am literally torn in this situation as I care very much for his kids but of course cannot tolerate being direspected and especially seeing my child get hurt/manipulated (particularly by the 11 year ADHD boy old but also the 5 year old very temperamental princess) Sigh….

  27.  #27Siren Angel on July 5, 2012 at 9:18 am

    I wish Rori would write about dating and relatonships with kids and step kids involved.

  28.  #28Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 am

    I feel really triggered by what you just said, FW. I feel like you’re trying to control me by picking at my semantics. I want to control back and point out that “you judging yourself” is not a feeling in the slightest.

    My face feels all twisted.

  29.  #29Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:22 am

    I wasn’t trying to share a feeling there Starla. I was just trying to bring something to your awareness. It is your choice to accept or not.

  30.  #30Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Siren Angel I have seen eNewsletters where she writes about those things. You might even find articles about that if you look through the Love Life category.

  31.  #31Siren Angel on July 5, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Then, I hope it might help my child learn to fend for himself to be in this environment and of course if he wants to stay, then I can’t leave without making a scene and causing drama… But at the same time, if it becomes dangerous for my child, I will absolutely not put up with any of it.

    I remember a situation when we went hiking up a small mountain in the spring, and we were on the very top picnicking and my 7 year old was accross from the 11 year old when the 11 year old took a pocket knife out and started cutting a branch with violent mouvements and I became absolutely terrified when he started argumenting with his siblings as his movements (cutting, sharpening a branch) were getting more violent and herratic, and was ready to jump at the first sign of the knife (who was close to my 7 year old) going towards my child as it might have cut him or worse he might have moved back suddenly into the void below behind him (top of mountain). I really felt terrified that day and asked M to please tell his 11 year old to be careful and M basically looked at me like I was nuts.

  32.  #32Siren Angel on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Anyway, I ended up pulling my child on my lap that day and did not say anything more because M’s look said it all. No matter what, I would be wrong.

  33.  #33Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:32 am

    In my personal experience – what I’m fighting within myself, and not owning and LOVING and forgiving and making peace with and embracing inside myself – are the things that most trigger me.


  34.  #34Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 am

    ohhh, my bad, when you said “feels to me like…” i assumed it was, you know, a FEELING you were sharing. Oh and when you said “feels sad.”

  35.  #35Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Siren Angel that feels so sad to read. Thinking about Rori’s story around her own daughter I am wondering if he feels shut out of your relationship with your child?

  36.  #36Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:41 am

    I feel SO angry.

    Is it because I feel so unseen? That someone is extrapolating one tiny word I used and mischaracterizing my intentions with it?

    And then I feel super lonely, and instead of getting support, I feel picked on?

    I don’t know.

    But I’m in “fight mode” now and I definitely don’t want to fight with FW.

    But I feel very very uncomfortable because I have this idea in my head that she’s judging me and it isn’t freaking fair, because it’s based off an extrapolation of a single word!

    And when I was growing up and I used to go to my mom with my sadness or my problems, she would immediately look for something to correct me on. Instead of just listening or sympathizing.

    And I still have this to heal. And I guess it’s always gonna come up in my life because lots of people do this. Probably because it was done to them.

    And I feel angry because I should be working, but I’m getting all worked up here instead! And I’m p*ssed at myself and the world


  37.  #37Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 am

    SA have your child ever been physically injured by them?

  38.  #38Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 am

    AND I am dreading something I have to do later for the legalization campaign here. I wish I could get out of it and I wish I never agreed to it. And I get angry at other things in life when that sort of thing is a factor. It’s displacing the anger. It even ATTRACTS scenarios that will allow me a displaced outlet for the anger.

  39.  #39Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:47 am

    anger anger anger i can feel it in my sinuses

  40.  #40Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Starla this is my last comment. My words were coming from a place centered in love for you today based on the dream you shared on the other thread and the response you got about your use of GAWD. I appreciate that different people have different love languages. In my previous self I would be willling to engage your fighting energy however in my present life my purpose is spreading as much love as possible though my choice of words might not always perfect. My boxing gloves have been burned and thrown in the garbage as they were very connected to my masculine energy.

  41.  #41Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 am

    i can feel my breakfast churning in my tummy. my stomach is pretty upset. i haven’t felt this way in a while
    (fw i’m not really p*ssed at you. i’m just letting this trigger rip, cuz it’s been a while)

  42.  #42Starla on July 5, 2012 at 9:56 am

    40 fw, this comment DOES engage, but i get that sometimes we need to explain externally to validate ourselves. this is how i am feeling right now, too!

    maybe it’s cuz i’m weak in boundaries.

    maybe it’s cuz i’m in denial of my control freak tendencies

    maybe it’s cuz i need to make sure the world (and myself) sees me as enlightened, especially compared to everyone else, even though the second i try to prove it, i completely undermine any enlightenment I may have obtained.

    who knows

    my stomach hurts:(
    I want to puke and cry.

  43.  #43siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:00 am


    i agree. i think his message was also to learn to put myself first. i’ve come so so far in that respect.

    he was also a sports star in university and is riduculously drop-dead gorgeous, so he is used to random women throwing themselves at him. but he says he’s only ever loved me and his highschool girlfriend. and the he’d never felt such an emotional connection with anyone as with me.

    but i guess that’s over. sigh.

    aw now i’m feeling all nostalgic and tingly.

    (me) (guy who loves me)

  44.  #44Starla on July 5, 2012 at 10:05 am

    ((((((((siren song))))))))))

  45.  #45Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:06 am

    siren song I so resonate with your story

  46.  #46siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:09 am

    aw thanks. i feel better about it every day starla!!!

    i feel so much more centrered and powerful.

    and this article really helped me put my finger on what felt so weird with him…he was ALL OVER ME but didn’t want to commit and felt i was lazy in the relationship.

    but he did also have a terrible run of luck with work and almost lost a limb in the month before we split, so i don’t think he was feeling very masculine or had much to give by the end. paul dobransky’s stuff about work and men seemed to be pretty relevant here.

  47.  #47Starla on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 am

    i feel better each day, too:) it’s funny how my dreams are getting super vivid and sometimes involve him. i am feeling excited thinking that maybe my dreams will become vividly GOOD one day soon.

  48.  #48siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 am

    i’m also reading a message board about mars and venus (i haven’t read those books for a long time). there are a few women on there who heard similar complaints from their guys about not chasing…it feels nice to know that i am not alone in experiencing a negative reaction to leaning back.

    for the first year he was very step-up, so i know that’s somethign he’s capable of when he’s happy and healthy.

  49.  #49siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:16 am

    i haven’t dreamed about him once.

    i still wake up thinking about him, but that’s fading too.

  50.  #50Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Siren Angel – In my experience with kids (I have 3 sons of my own) and two step-children – a boy and a girl – they are all grown now, so I have spent half my life learning from them . . .)

    Anyway, In my experience with kids and parents, there is a huge difference between what one person thinks of as a dangerous situation and what another person views as just boys being boys (and this includes girls being girls…). Your post about how afraid you were for your son when the older boy was using the pocket knife struck me as being over-protective. Please don’t take offense – I’m not saying you are – I’m pointing out that everyone has a different perspective on these things. i would have been more worried about the older boy having the knife slip and cut his own little hand if he was using it while agitated, but that’s just me.

    My point is, your man looks at you like he thinks you are crazy . . . that’s because he is coming at the situation with a completely different perspective. he doesn’t understand how you feel any more than you understand how he feels.

    My sons all lived through all of their rough and tumble experiences and i believe they are stronger men for every scar they ever got while playing or fighting with each other. It is how they learn to be men, to defend themselves, to have compassion for people smaller, younger or weaker than themselves. These are life lessons that boys must learn somewhere. We can’t keep them on our laps all safe and sound forever.

    Again – Just my thoughts and some experience from someone who has raised 4 boys and a girl.

  51.  #51Tam on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 am

    ((((Siren Song))))
    Blimey, I wonder whether this is a lesson for me too: ‘put myself first’, when all I had ever been taught and told was to ‘put others first’ and look where it got me, particularly with men – nowhere far. However, I still struggle to understand why I attracted such high quality men in my early 20’s…and now it seems so hard. Why?

    Also, I may have found the reason why MrUnavailable came into my life. It wasn’t for a romantic relationship, it wasn’t to take me off my path..perhaps he came into my life as someone to push my latest dream forward, to live and work in the US. I admired him because all he said he wanted to do with his life he did, against all odds, the most amazing things…and he has always pushed my dreams, he has always said ‘you can do it’ (even when I did not believe it myself anymore) and not just that…he gave me concrete advice with business – and all of what he said came true and helped me onwards. And now, I am on the cusp of doing something risky, to have a last go at my big dream…and he holds the key to it (through the information and another person that can help me)….and here I am, too shy to ask him for the info. This info I need desperately, but I do not want to open the channels of conversation, I don’t want to get any romantic hopes, since I have arrived at an equilibrium, Ladies. Not happy, not sad, I just am!!! But I feel scared to ask him for help. I have to, else I will stagnate here – and it really is just contact info – but I feel so much better having no contact with him. Urgh.

    Anyhow, what I want to say is that perhaps finally, I found the reason why he came into my life: for me not to give up hope that my dreams can come true, and to help with practical stuff also. Not love. Not the romantic kind anyway. I feel relieved and at the same time a little sad. Yes, just a little sad. But, you know, perhaps it was all for the best, perhaps it was ‘the best’ for me. Perhaps I have been protected of having a major heartbreak down the line…who knows?!
    I feel calm.

  52.  #52Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Michael Fiore

    “LOOKING isn’t cheating.
    LUSTING isn’t even cheating.
    FANTASIZING isn’t cheating.


    Because if looking was cheating then every single one of us (who wasn’t struck blind is some horrible childhood accident) would be total piece of shit
    douchebag cheaters. And we’re not.
    We’re human beings.
    And as human beings there’s absolutely nothing weird or even “morally wrong” about looking at other people and imagining all sorts of lovely, dirty things.

    (We couldn’t stop ourselves if we wanted to.) Cheating is about ACTION. Not thought. Heck, smart guys are actually REALLY HAPPY when movies like “Magic Mike” come out. Why?

    Because our women go off with their girlfriends to see this kind of movie. They lust uncontrollably at the pieces of hairless man-flesh writhing on stage.
    They titter and giggle and feel a lovely warmth deep in their stomachs. And then they come home and bork our brains out. It’s really not so bad.
    Folks who think looking is cheating (and I’m including folks who think looking at porn IN MODERATION is a problem – anything in excess is a different story, including those damn romance novels you love so much. . .)

    Anyway, folks who are that uptight and insecure are just locking themselves in for a lifetime of misery and lies.

  53.  #53ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 10:30 am

    From last thread:

    Thank you, Esteemed. I haven’t been able to read all the blog comments. It sounds like things have improved with R and I feel really happy for you. I hope they continue.

    I thought I could catch up tonight, but Mr. Observant asked to see me again. 🙂 That is every day this week and we are taking a weekend trip.

    I feel bad because I like to read everyone’s comments and respond when I can. I am so behind on them!

  54.  #54Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Great point Calypso. It reminds me of a girlfriends account of how her husband reacted to her sons behavior and she had to drop her need to control what was going on and learn to trust her husband. She said she had to turn her attention internally and begin to pray to distract herself from intervening and possibly embarassing her husband in front of her son. She also admitted that she realized that she could not teach her son what he needed to know about masculinity.

  55.  #55siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:32 am

    yeah, tam, i grew up with two addicted parents, once of whom had a serious anger issue (ahem…like guy who loves me) and i learned to placate placate placate and to not expect much in the way of support or interest.

    unlearning this with CDing for sure.

  56.  #56siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:33 am

    almost three weeks of leaning back!! yay!

  57.  #57Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Tam you have tapped into your vibe. The desperate need. The shyness to ask. The feeling scared to ask. If you could work on changing these before you do he will feel your vibe and might even want to help by calling and putting in a good word for you.

  58.  #58Tam on July 5, 2012 at 10:37 am

    What should I do FW?

  59.  #59ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 am

    I have dated both the Busy Man (BoatGuy, MilitaryCD, WorkCD) and the Man Child (HypoCD, SheriffCD).

    The Busy Man I didn’t feel important with. The Man Child I felt controlled with. Neither situation is good.

    I guess MilitaryCD could also be considered the Depositor, as he texted me more than saw me.

  60.  #60Tam on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 am

    I feel so vulnerable telling him that I need him for something so trivial. I wish it was someone else. I wish I did not have to contact him.

  61.  #61Rebecca on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Calypso said:
    Lord – I’ve dated all of these men!!! NEXT! Lol

    Amen to that!!!

  62.  #62ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 am

    @4 FW

    What is it you do (if you don’t mind me asking)?

  63.  #63Tam on July 5, 2012 at 10:43 am

    55 siren song – yes, my dad has an anger issue and my mum is bipolar and I was sexually abused by my Dad’s best friend as a kid – just as my parents got divorced….so..yeah!
    Placating and quietly staying in the corner, not making anyone angry..that is me.
    And I always used to get criticised. I developed a hard shell. And huge tolerance. And forgiveness,
    But, you know, it didn’t get me anywhere. I am having to unlearn all this.
    I am the traditional Rori hard shell on the outside and super sensitive on the inside. And it just does not work.

  64.  #64Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Tam I would encourage you to keep writing about those wishes and feelings until you get to what to say to him and what to do.

    At this point it seems that if you choose to ask, that you want to admit to feeling vulnerable asking. Script here until you get to what you want to say. Then go in front of the mirror and keep saying it to get a feel on the reactions in your body.

  65.  #65lilybelly on July 5, 2012 at 10:47 am


    Took the words right out of my mouth. Well said.

  66.  #66Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 10:48 am


    53 – Yay! That sounds awesome how your relationship is coming together! And yes, I feel closer to R than I have felt in the past three years! I feel excited!

  67.  #67siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:49 am

    oh wow tam that is very familiar.

    i ended up being a hard-shelled, all-in-my-head over achiever. i used to be the best at everything…school, work, music, writing, the most friends, the biggest people pleaser, trying to control how people felt about me (impossible!).

    it’s resulted in a lot of material things and a great job and a life that far exceeds the one my parents raised me to live, but i have been really disconnected with my inner self and my feminine side since i was little.

  68.  #68ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 10:49 am

    @10 lk

    I, too, feel I need a change in my work. It is not satisfying for me and I feel annoyed & stressed more than anything. I wish I could find something to use my creativity. Good luck with finding your way. 🙂

  69.  #69siren song on July 5, 2012 at 10:49 am

    (me) (tam)

  70.  #70Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Tam I would ask. But though you might not have any other choice, the desperation has to be worked on before the asking. Desperation feels icky. Also the desperation could put you into convincing mindset and resentment if he chooses to not take your call or respond to your request. You want to shift to believing that the Universe put him in your life for this purpose and that he will be happy to help you when you ask. Though you might be feeling silly and vulnerable. You are a girl and are entitled to those feelings but they don’t have to drive your behavior.

  71.  #71ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 10:57 am

    @21 siren song

    SheriffCD was like this too. He would get mad if I couldn’t see him, but it was ok if he couldn’t see me. Everything was about him. He would throw temper tantrums like a 5 year old. He tried to squash my independence. He wanted me in tow under his foot. He would accuse me of things he had no right to accuse me of. It was a very exhausting relationship. I feel so happy to be out of that.

    I was thinking when you mentioned he was catered too in the past, and I believe this was part of SheriffCD’s problem. He always got what he wanted. People didn’t tell him no, so when I did, he spazzed.

  72.  #72Tam on July 5, 2012 at 10:59 am

    ((((((siren song))))))
    I had to emigrate to come out of my shell, aged 19…my way of showing my two fingers to everyone..and being hard. Ugh.

  73.  #73ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 11:02 am

    It seems Mr. Observant was always the giver. He supported his family, his wife didn’t work and she isn’t much of a homemaker, doesn’t know how to cook, so they basically had fast food/pizza/whatever all the time, she liked to fight with him. He’s a lover, not a fighter. They haven’t had a “relationship” for a long time. He was sleeping on the couch and no physical contact.

    I am the complete opposite of her and I think that is what really attracts him to me. I made pasta salad for work and had a bunch left over. When I saw him the other night, we had it for dinner. He told me he felt spoiled by it. He comments on things like how I keep my house clean and organized, how I cook & enjoy it & will make things I don’t even eat because other people like it, how nice I am, etc.

    We were talking about being irritated and I said, well, he saw me irritated at my parents the other day. He laughed and said, if that is your irritated, I can deal with that!

  74.  #74Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:03 am

    70 FW, thank you so much, it feels good to read your viewpoint, very soothing. You know, he kinda messed stuff up for me also, so in a way it is also a chance for him to ‘make good’ which, I suspect is why he keeps contacting me with viable solutions to my dilemma.

    In a way I am already over the desperation. You know, now it feels like I just need to act. Nothing much to do with him, I need to act and he can help me (but I am just a little scared to re-open the communication channels). I feel unsure as to how to open the communication channels and make it stay to the point – mind you, he is good at that so maybe I am worrying about nothing.

    Just that I am not sure what to say. Pffff 🙁

  75.  #75Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Here is a free Soul Mate Seminar with 45 speakers. I feel bad I don’t see Rori on the list:


  76.  #76Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Tam I believe you are worrying about nothing.

  77.  #77siren song on July 5, 2012 at 11:07 am


    yeah, that sounds familiar. i sometimes got the feeling i was supposed to take care of him. i went with him to his sister’s wedding and i ironed his shirt (it was kind of a fun little task and i felt really great about doing it) and his mother said something along the lines of: ‘it’s nice to finally see you do something like this for him.’


  78.  #78Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:08 am

    70 FW – he will always take my call. Always. Because I never call and he thinks it’s an emergency.
    If I send an email he most likely responds within 5-15 minutes if he sees it. He would never let me down when it comes to anything practical/help/advice. I feel safe about that. Just not regarding anything romance related.
    He is 150% reliable, I do trust this man with my life. We go boating, and I know that if we ever had any problems, he would rescue me even if it meant he’d have to die. I know it sounds dramatic, but it’s true. So I do not worry about that. Even at a time we ‘didn’t talk’, and I needed his help, he called me at 3am – so I know he will always help. At least this 🙂

  79.  #79Memulo on July 5, 2012 at 11:08 am


    What i will say to you now may be very different from other sirens. And please bear in mind that I don’t have an experience with step-children. Yet I feel from your personality that you have to trust your feeling that things are not the way they should be and you are being mistreated.

    I feel that going for a walk alone after a heated discussion with your guy may help you in a couple of ways. To calm down and get your thoughts together. And to create space and silence and stand by your boundaries.

  80.  #80Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:09 am

    76. FW. Yes. I believe so too. Thank you!! 🙂 I feel better.

  81.  #81siren song on July 5, 2012 at 11:11 am


    yes. temper tantrums. about a month ago i posted a lot about his angry explosions and tantrums. i felt totally frozen. i would speak in FMs and walk away and he just got angrier. in the end, i had to block his texts from my blackberry because they were abusive. he still has access to me by email and he’s been nothing but kind and sweet since i blocked him.

    what a lot of drama. i felt so confused and like a failure for things going south. but i refuse to suffer over this anymore. and i really am not. i’m just reminded by this article that things were not woring for a reason.

  82.  #82Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Wow Tam he sounds like a masculine giver. I wonder if the disconnect between you two was just a misunderstanding. A difference in opinions. I guess if I was wearing his shoe I would not want to marry a girl who only wanted to marry me to facilitate residency. He might just have been scared?

  83.  #83siren song on July 5, 2012 at 11:12 am

    not WORKING i mean 🙂

  84.  #84Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Men love connecting with women on an emotional level

    This just leapt at men out of the article above. I wonder how it fits into our thinking about men as emotionally unavailable?

  85.  #85Daria on July 5, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Lk – I’ve been reading and doing Morgana Rae ‘s money stuff which is about visualizing money as a male lover.

    Also I ask my ‘Money Honey’ everyday what would make him happy 🙂

    Right now he says tell me you love me

    I’ve been feeling way more connected and secure w money ever since

  86.  #86Daria on July 5, 2012 at 11:23 am

    I wana do a coach thing where I help people shift the beliefs

    ‘I have to ‘make a living’

    I have to ‘earn’ money

    I need money to survive

    I need money to consider myself successful

    I need money to be comfortable


    That will take some desperation out and then work on attracting money without the ‘need’

    And directing their ‘work’ energy into creative pursuits and activities that nourish and empower

    I just removed the last belief for myself yay 🙂

  87.  #87Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:27 am

    82..l.don’t egg me on FW….haha.
    I gave him lots of chances. He is a very angry man, he fits to category 1 of above.
    I know he loves me but he values his freedom, he is a very masculine man and he is confused, he does fit into our category of “emotionally unavailable”. When I was with someone else, he said he wanted a relationship with me. When it came down to it, he said he wanted to be fwb after all, and a little later ‘just platonic friends’. He is worried about the expectations of a relationship. I am the only woman he let into his house ever, in two years of having it. When I am there, he is always on my case and only meets with me and considers us as dating. As soon as I go, he is on a dating website and always looking for his ideal woman, he can’t be ‘tied down’. I gave up trying to work him out and moved on.
    Oh,I know he loves me. But he makes all his future planning without me, and he does’t offer a commitment.
    He offered to marry me (half-heartedly) and I said:
    ‘I would never do this to you, because I know that this is not your wish nd I respect you too much to ask this of you’.
    So no, I never put pressure on him in any way.

  88.  #88Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I still don’t know what to say though, argh.

  89.  #89Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Sounded like you did great Tam. He might be wanting you but on his terms. Boundaries are great in those situations is what I believe.

  90.  #90Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:32 am

    oh Lord.

    I thought it would be easy to keep up with this new thread but it’s full already!! LOL

  91.  #91Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Tam I encourage you to script.

  92.  #92Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Men are just hard to understand, no matter what category they fall into. When I look at all the posts from us girls I just think to myself “IF they knew all the time and energy we spend on them just to understand them”. But they don’t! Ugh

  93.  #93Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Jasmine I believe men are simple. As soon as I get out of my own head, they are human beings with issues like myself.

  94.  #94Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:39 am


    I don’t know about that… I guess I’m just looking at it from the perspective that men and women are just completely different in they way they behave. And in my case, whenever they’re stubborn they’re hard to understand.

  95.  #95Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:40 am

    89, he wants me and he doesn’t. he is ambivalent, but he hasn’t let anyone close except for me. I suspect that is what scares him. His mother was a cold beauty queen who left him behind…and that is exactly the type of woman he is attracted to…superficially…anyhow, I had stopped trying to get into his head.

    Yes, I need a script….

  96.  #96Daria on July 5, 2012 at 11:48 am

    wow i feel angry – maybe frightened skimming thru some comments

    i noticed doing the Lefkoe work a lot of what i thought was anger was related to fear

    i feel angry actually for having tapped into this energy

    i was feeling good! and inspired

    i want to play some Goddess Awakes morning music im going to search for some appropriate stuf

  97.  #97siren song on July 5, 2012 at 11:48 am

    tam, it sounds like he wants you, but might have a fear of engulfment.

    guy who loves me never let a woman into his house in his 36 years and had never lived with anyone, even though he dated his ex for 8 years, but he wanted me there every night and he asked me to move in. but when he had me he was controlling.

    margaret paul talks alot about fear of rejection/fear of engulfment and how they can wear on relationships.

    one thing is for certain: you can’t take it personally. it’s his own stuff.

  98.  #98Starla on July 5, 2012 at 11:50 am

    I also believe men are simple. Even the ones that seem complicated, are “simply” complicated. The question is how much are you willing to accept that that one man is all over the place and complicated, and let that be the simple truth. Sometimes the simple truth is you’ll need to really cater to them for it to ever work. Or the truth most of the time is you need to focus on yourself and not worry about their complicated ways. And when you do this, you might find yourself bored when you’re not trying to solve that riddle of a man. And leave for a simpler man:)

  99.  #99Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:50 am


    I’ve been trying to read through the last thread but there’s just too much on there that I can’t keep track of what I’m reading. Is it your ex who you’re talking about?

  100.  #100Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Rori Raye says:
    Welcome “I” – and I’m so sorry you are feeling so helpless and stuck. This is a process. There are many, many married women reading and commenting here, and I know you’ll get help. Number one – absolutely number one for your self-esteem…is to focus 100% on getting work that pays you. Or starting a business. Or baby-sitting. ANYTHING that brings in money and makes you feel good – something you can ENJOY (this is important) and feel good about doing. Next — yes you CAN Circular Date. It’s not about ‘dating.” Circular Dating is about getting out into the world and RELATING to men. Talking, flirting, practicing the Tools so that when you use them with your husband — it’s easier for you. Like learning a new language and practicing it out there with people who you have no expectations or hopes with…so that when you practice with your husband, you feel more natural and relaxed. I wish you so much luck! Love, Rori

  101.  #101Starla on July 5, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Jasmine, CF = my ex. Does this answer your question?

  102.  #102Elaine on July 5, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Please help me know what to think Havebeen living in a relationship two months now and started to get better and all of a sudden got cold .He says because a 14 year old grandaughter is upset i have to always be there with him She is here lots and he says he wants our relationship but I can no longer even do our grocery shopping with him which we share cost
    His grandaughter says she has to be with him alone always He agrees and also says she and all his family will always come first even in a marriage he says I would never be first as that would not make me a blood relative
    We are supposed to talk tonight .What is best to do I am thinking as much as it hurts that he is not marrige material He was married fifty years She died 11 months ago
    Can you help know know what to think or do Rori Many thanks

  103.  #103Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Teresa, Welcome, and I’ll anser all your comments here. I know you want only constructive comments, so you might not want to read this…it’s tough.
    1. You’re scaring him by not having a job. Period. That’s a big clue for you. Most men are like this now, unless they’re wealthy, and ESPECIALLY then do they want you to have a FULL life outside of them. The days of “housewife” are LONG OVER. It’s not attractive anymore. Men want a feisty, independent, active woman with a real life, not a “wifey.” It triggers them too much. If you focus on ANYTHING BUT getting a job…you’re going in the wrong direction. Focusing on him or the relationship is the WRONG direction. If you were a truly feisty, cool, independent woman who didn’t take garbage from a man, he might be so over-the-top attracted to you that the job thing would be down the list for him…but now…it just adds to your emotional need for him in your life. So — GETTING to that place in yourself is your NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. The Tools to do it are here, in my newsletters, ebook and programs…step-by-step. The women here will help you use them — but you have to know what they are and how they work within the entire system.
    2.You officially have an open relationship, if he’s seeing another woman. So why aren’t YOU DATING? Circular Dating is the best Tool you have for getting your self-esteem back and leaning back authentically.
    3. You cannot “talk” anything into being better. You can only ATTRACT him more. This is a combo of Strong Surrender – Strong on the inside, soft on the outside…Boundaries and Open-Heart. In order to do this…you work at it…slowly raising your self-esteem until you simply arrive at this new “normal” and things shift in the relationship. Even though it’s a PROCESS…it can happen very FAST…if you do the steps in order and consistently.
    Love, Rori

  104.  #104Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:55 am


    98 – I guess you’re right. They’re far less complicated than we women are. But yeah I think sometimes we overcomplicate things and even ourselves for wanting to read men like an open book. I did that a lot on my past relationship. It took me nowhere.

  105.  #105Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 11:58 am

    : Rori Raye says:
    Teresa, just caught this from one of your comments:
    but I really want to spend time with him and am worried if I don’t accept this he will not want to be with me.
    Perhaps this will help…this attitude is the single LEAST attractive attitude a woman can have. In other words, the more you think this, the less attractive you become. So if you’re worried about him leaving you because you’re not tolerating whatever…reverse that thought. Tolerating whatever is the single FASTEST way to end a relationship and send a man out the door. It makes you about as attractive as a dead fish, because you just aren’t a real, live, breathing human being when you think that thought.
    Tell me if I’m wrong, Teresa – but I think tough is the way to go here…it’s worked wonders for my now rock star client. The attitude of this thought is that of an addicted person. A junkie. You are a junkie for love. Let that settle for a bit. Love, Rori

  106.  #106Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 11:58 am


    Why did you break up? What’s the situation right now between you two? I am trying to familiarize myself with all of you and it’s easier if you tell me over here than trying to read the thousand posts there are lol. If you don’t mind.

  107.  #107Tam on July 5, 2012 at 11:58 am

    97 siren song…yes, similar. MrU is clingy when I am at his place. I personally love it but he hates it. When I get up to go to the bathroom, he will say ‘where are you going?’ ‘home?’ and when I go to the bathroom you can literally see him go ‘phew’.

    When I ask him to drive me home and I say ‘ok, let’s go” he will say ‘you should feel sad about going home’ and when I say ‘yes, of course I feel sad going home’, he’ll give me a little smile.

    I find it cute because he is such a hard guy and most people are scared of him and have a lot of respect. I see his soft side and I love it. He doesn’t show it to anybody. People have remarked on how they don’t believe how he is with me…like I can say anything and he will respect me and listen to me…as even most men straight away let him take the lead. It’s super cute.

  108.  #108Starla on July 5, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    103 jasmine
    my last guy wanted me to either focus completely on myself and let his complicatedness slide (to the point of feeling neglected), or focus more on it and try to fix him and figure it out. I couldn’t do either. They both felt awful. But these are not healthy expectations for any grown man to have. He’ll realize that one day (maybe).

    I feel excited about dating new guys that will be a bit more balanced, now that I am becoming more balanced:)

    To be honest, though, these guys seem BORING to me. I talk with my therapist about this quite a bit lately. But he reminds me that I am stable in life and responsible and not a boring person at all.

  109.  #109Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    So Tam why are you scared of asking him for that contact if you can have him feeling like you are the air he needs to breathe?

  110.  #110Emoticon on July 5, 2012 at 12:03 pm


  111.  #111Starla on July 5, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    105, jasmine – i’m not entirely sure to this day exactly why we broke up. obviously, he just didn’t want to do it. he mentioned a few reasons over the course of a few days, but they all kind of contradicted each other and were pretty vague and hard to interpret. he broke up with me in an email and never spoke to me again. it’s been hard to move on because I thought he was the one for me, but I do a great job of taking care of myself.

  112.  #112Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:08 pm


    I totally feel you on the “boring guys” issue. I started hanging out with this one guy who has pretty much EVERYTHING you can ask for a guy, but he’s just so boring!! Sometimes us women have a hard time trying to find a guy that can connect to us in that flirty way that excites us. But I couldn’t connect with him at all.

    I am a little confused about circular dating because I don’t want to push myself into someone I don’t like. I don’t hang out with that guy anymore because he was getting a little weird and I don’t want him to confuse things. I am just trying to have fun. So after that I’ve just been hanging out with friends, going to nice places, and meeting new people, just to focus on myself more.. but not actually relating to “men”.. is that bad?


  113.  #113siren song on July 5, 2012 at 12:09 pm


    “When I get up to go to the bathroom, he will say ‘where are you going?’”

    guy who loves me was exactly the same way.

  114.  #114Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:09 pm


    How long has it been since you broke up?

  115.  #115Starla on July 5, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Jasmine 111, you can practice the tools with any man, really. Rori refers to “the butcher” at the grocery store, as an example. You can practice using feeling messages and physically leaning back and all that good stuff.

  116.  #116Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    This is a really nice post I found online and I thought I would share it with you guys. It makes a LOT of sense and I loved it. Hope you like it!

    “If he’s not calling you.
    If he’s not texting you.
    If he’s looking for other girls to date.
    If he’s not taking you out on dates.
    If he’s not asking you to be is girlfriend.

    Then it’s because he doesn’t want to.

    Even if he’s kissing you.
    Even if he’s letting you sleep in his bed with him.
    Even if he’s cuddling you at night.
    Even if he gets jealous when you talk about other guys.

    If he wanted to be with you, then he would be. But he’s not.

    And he’s a fool.”

  117.  #117Starla on July 5, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Jasmine, it’s been 3 months today, actually. Wow!
    I tried contacting him a few times but never got a hold of him. That was the hardest part. We dated for several months and didn’t have any hostility or anything between us. He just…disappeared. About a month ago, I sent an email to him and decided to let it go. There were/are still days when I feel the urge to try to contact him again, to find out why on earth he wouldn’t just talk to me. But I resist the urge. It gets easier with time:) I love myself and I learned to love this experience because it turned into a huge growth opportunity for me. I am now becoming the person I always wanted to be, and I have all this time and space to just focus on myself for the first time in my life.

  118.  #118Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Oh wow Starla that was harsh!! Not even a face-to-face break up? Wow… Why would he do something like that? That was even irresponsible. But I’m glad you’re gradually feeling better. He didn’t deserve you.

    My ex boyfriend broke up with me last Christmas in a very harsh way. That day before the break he just told me “I don’t think this is working and I don’t want to have to worry bout this during the break.” Of course it was face to face but still it was so hard for me to process those words into my head! So during the break I got really needy and texted him a lot (I was in NYC) but he brushed me off all the time, he didn’t want to talk about it or about ANYTHING. He cut me out really badly so I stopped myself and started ignoring him instead, then he started talking to me again and asked me why we were trying to hurt each other?

    That’s where I just think guys are complicated. Sometimes they don’t want you, but once you leave them alone they come back to you? They’re dumb.

  119.  #119Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Wow, everybody, this is an amazing thread.
    Siren Angel, I hear you on feeling protective of your child and if that happened to me and my child on the mountaintop, I would have taken some serious time away….it sounds like the stepchildren and/or Dad are not exercising enough self-control to make the environment safe enough for your child and to make you feel comfortable. I am not trying to tell you what to do at all, I am just trying to rephrase what it sounds like to me, how did i do?

  120.  #120Tam on July 5, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    112siren song..wow!! 😉

  121.  #121Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    I read only love from FW in her post also.

    But feel it is so important that you shared how you felt, because then you can hear again how much you are loved.

    That happened with my twin sister the other day…..she was freaking out about a new job opportunity and I was short on time and I cut her short and led her on a short visualization to help her feel more empowered…..well, she came back at me and told me she felt invalidated and she told me what she wanted to experience by calling me, and I laughed gently, because I told her I was loving her and look, it worked, you are empowered now and you now know how you feel……but she was mad at me temporarilly…..but not really me, more my parents or other people in her past.

  122.  #122Tam on July 5, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    108 FW – oh, that made me feel like a million dollars. That’s amazing.

  123.  #123Rori Raye on July 5, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Elaine, I’m deleting your last name for your privacy. First of all – I think you know what to do, and what you want to do – it’s just hard to do it. When you’re with a man who has children – you will NEVER be first – his children come first. BUT you are first romantically. When you are with a widower or a divorced man, his former wife will ALWAYS be in his heart and brain in some way (Great play and movie from Neil Simon about this: “Chapter Two”). These things you can expect – and at this time in your life – you may find that works out just fine! OR – you can feel bad about it, as you do. If you can simply leave your man alone with his granddaughter, and let them shop together while you do other things that interest you (an art class, church, reading, walking, a lecture or class in anything, exercising…) that will get you SO much more out of this, so you can see clearly. Right now, this man feels like you’re right on top of him, that you’re clinging and needy and “have” to be there with him at all times. The ONLY way to remedy this quickly is to step back and get busy doing OTHER things – so he has to actually ASK for your time. Love, Rori

  124.  #124Smile on July 5, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Receiving girl yey! From previous thread! Loved that he said you were together! Keep leaning back and thinking positive.

    Did you manage to get hold of the book?

  125.  #125Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I’m watching the clock, wondering when Duke might contact me next. He texted me briefly this morning, but his job is manual and I know he can’t text while working. I’m really curious to know if he wants to see me again. I hope he does!

    I just looked up our horoscope compatibility – Lol. I am a Pisces and I have a limited number of matches that are supposed to be very good for me . . .I always seem to ens up attracted to a Virgo – GM was a (IS a – the man is not dead – lol) Virgo and the two of us clashed in every possible way – heaven & hell just like our horoscopes predicted!

    Duke is a Cancer and I just read about us and it was beautiful! We are completely compatible according to our signs. Of course I know it all depends on the actual person and the way their lives have shaped them, but i still know there is truth in our birth signs and how we resopnd to life – I believe it anyway.

    2 of my sons are Cancer men and reading about a Cancer man, i could see them so clearly! I’ve never dated a Cancer man before. He sounds like he would be a wonderful match for the Pisces girl in me . . .

    Now – i just have to lean back and be open and be willing to be surprised and see where this can lead. I need to not lean forward and exert my boy energy ont his man . . . hard to do, but i think perhaps worth it this time?

    here’s hoping . . .

  126.  #126Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    well, today has been interesting….

    i tapped for a great day, i tapped for $500K in my bank account and i tapped to be a love magnet…..

    then one of my CD’s texted me about the name of one of my favorite flowers……

    and the text conversation got really racy, because this flower, chicory, has got to be one of my most favorite flowers and when I look at it under a hand lens, the male stamens are incredibly beautiful…..so it got kind of out of hand, not really, but i had to go take a cold shower, i really really want to magnetize a partner, it feels so hard to be ovulating and looking and thinking about flowers and not getting pollinated myself….but flowers, they are a true lesson in feminine receiving energy, aren’t they?

    Looking pretty, smelling good, offering nectar, come on over and pollinate me….

    Gosh, when I lay an egg, I just have one thing on my mind….

  127.  #127Smile on July 5, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Esteemed- from previous thread.

    Hmm I have an issue with saying were friends which puts us back in the grey area. It’s obvious were not friends as we lived together previously.

    I’m interested to talk more bout dating other guys with you sometime. Ive gots loads of work to do at min so will post on this another time.

  128.  #128Starla on July 5, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Jasmine, I wish mine would come back. And say SOMETHING. But I’m just telling myself that will never ever happen. I’m just cuttin my losses and telling myself he’s not the one for me. Even though I feel it in my bones we are going to be together one day. It could be decades from now. Who knows. I’m trying to let it go.

  129.  #129Smile on July 5, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Daria/ esteemed/ feminine woman

    So I invited him… He’s checking he can have time off work but he was leaning forward with his response and I am hopeful we will go to the wedding together!

    Even if he can’t get time off as it’s during the week at least I know he wanted to and I would be happy going by myself.

    Either way I won as I didn’t push him away! Yey!

    Thanks sirens for your advice on this one. It is only a small situation but I felt i needed advice on how to handle it.

  130.  #130Tam on July 5, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    FW- do you have some scripting advice? I am at a loss as how to ask for something without getting into anything deeper

  131.  #131Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Starla, I understand how you felt. But things weren’t pleasing after that, as soon as I got back from the break we started seeing each other but he didn’t want anything serious anymore. But every time I decided to stop all sorts of contact with him, he would be friendly and apologize for what happened… but it ended up happening repetitively the first four months after the break up, we always ended up together (although not the way I wanted). At times he was about to consider getting back with me but I always mismanaged the situation and pulled him away.

    Now that it is summer time it’s been two months that we don’t see each other (except for two occasions, and in those occassions we didn’t have sex but did have some sort of connection.. there’s just too much chemistry). I’m sure he avoids seeing me because he doesn’t want those certain things to happen again as he is so determined to not try things again with me. It’s kinda complicated, but I’m feeling waaaaay leaned back and way better. I have a lot of ups and downs, but I feel positive.

  132.  #132Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I just wonder,

    Would a guy look deeply into your eyes and passionately have sex with you if he’s over you?

  133.  #133Daria on July 5, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    im feeling a bit naseous now and wondering if im not hungry

  134.  #134Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Tam just ask.

  135.  #135Healing Waterfall on July 5, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    I am not sure, but I think a guy can do that and still be over you….

    and a guy can be totally turned on by you and not love you…..

    i am starting to get this by reading this blog and rori’s stuff and this blog, that it is really about making yourself feel good, right and safe when interacting with a man and making sure that you have what you need before you let him in…..

  136.  #136Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    I am feeling vulnerable but I need your help.

  137.  #137Elaine on July 5, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Are you sure Rori or did i not put something right? just need to be double sure here before taking action

    please bear with me
    We are 72 years old I had not been with a man for 32 years
    You mean it is right to allow a 14 year old grandaughter who lives with her mother at home
    t demand that I dont spend time with her gramp
    Please confirm and Ill take from there
    Many thanks

  138.  #138Linda on July 5, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    #84… um I dont think all men are emotionally unavailable. Some are though. It has been my experience that they all (20 plus men) I have CD’d want to tell you all about them.. their hurts what the last female did to them… even share some the their other stuff.. (i.e. dreams etc) NONE have inquired about me and my world though.

    That is not emotionally connecting. It is a two way street and mine have been all one way.


  139.  #139Tam on July 5, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    134 and 136 FW, thank you. I feel happy that you have encouraged me to do what I also think is best: just ask honestly and be true to myself.
    All will be ok.
    I trust.
    Thanks again, I do like your ‘no-nonsense’ advice 🙂

  140.  #140Linda on July 5, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    132# Jasmine

    Absolutely! He would.


  141.  #141ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    @66 Esteemed – I feel excited too! 🙂

  142.  #142Starla on July 5, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I was wondering if you ladies have any siren idols that inspire you? Like celebrities or anyone?

  143.  #143Tam on July 5, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    137…interesting Linda, I have a slightly different experience. Even men that I judged as being emotionally unavailable (were they??) showed some interest in me, and my past etc. I like it very much when a man ask me things about me and reltionships and so on, and I have never got involved with anyone who didn’t show some interest in me as a person. I find even men who are not really available can still be curious….my guy, MrU, was always asking me a million questions.
    In the end he even asked me what women like in bed (because he had no clue…I blame porn). So I was educating him..and he was really grateful. And he learnt…and he practiced on me…hahaha…so, well, I think people are just people. And because of their past sometimes they are just screwed up – and so are we to a certain extent….it’s just finding someone who will take us for who we are, love us and appreciate us…and not leave us to second guess. Hm

  144.  #144Tam on July 5, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    141, although she is quite a bit older than me I just love Meryl Streep…the way she acts, she kind of lets it all out. She looks good but not platicky like Cher or Madonna…she looks natural (whether she is or not is another matter).

    Also Dame Judy Dench (even older).

    I love women that age gracefully and not like building sites (you can see I spent a lot of time on SoFla, where every other woman has been under the knife and they start to look grotesque – so sad)

  145.  #145ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    @77 siren song

    I agree…ew.

  146.  #146Tam on July 5, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    uh, typo: ‘plasticky”

  147.  #147ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    @81 siren song

    Yes, I had the abusive text messages too. One day he sent me 100 of them. That was the first time I ended things. He was a big bully. I’m positive it would have turned to physical abuse before too long. I needed to leave.

  148.  #148Linda on July 5, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Tam.. my experience has been that some gush out all about their world and past etc…Some dates are interviewers. (yuck)… I have some men ask about me, the ones I saw more than once anyway.

    Emotional connection is deeper to me. I once had a man (whom is still the love of my life so far) ask me this… (“what do you want, what do you need, what do you need to feel”)….. I had never had anyone ask me that. I felt like for the first time in my life someone took an interest in me. Just me. I cried everytime I thought about it. It opened up wonderful communication and me.

    Emotional connection is two people giving, and sharing to one another. You feel safe and warm and fuzzy.

    Emotional connection is not me listening at level two and knodding. LOL


  149.  #149Memulo on July 5, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Girls, we are going to a beach hotel for a day!! I feel so excited. Leaving in a couple of hours.

  150.  #150Starla on July 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Aw, Tam, I feel so warmed reading about who your siren idols are:)

  151.  #151ReceivingGirl on July 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    @113 siren song and tam

    SheriffCD used to pull me back and not let me go to the bathroom. I had to break free from him to do that. It was annoying.

  152.  #152siren song on July 5, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    RG, yeah and as recently as a couple of weeks ago he emailed me saying ‘i love you and i get angrier about this (CDing) every day’

    but he won’t commit the way he said he was intending to…

  153.  #153siren song on July 5, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    siren idols…

    good topic!!

    i always loved the change in bridget fonda’s character in ‘singles’…she was a super-lean forward man pleaser whose boyfriend was ‘still seeing other people’ and wanted her to get plastic surgery.

    then she has a moment and realises ‘hey, i don’t have to be here!’ and leaves him, invests 100% of her energy into herself…goes back to school, works on her house, goes out on her own. her BF comes back because she is so strong and open and ‘rocks his world’.

    not a person, but a character!

  154.  #154siren song on July 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    he is different too, of course, when he comes back.

  155.  #155Tam on July 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    147 Linda: agreed!!!!

    149 Starla..thanks…do you have any celebrity sirens???

  156.  #156siren song on July 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm

  157.  #157Linda on July 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    My daughter said a hurtful thing to me to day. I cried on the way home.

    It appears to her I am an idot for letting the last man that was in my life back in it. When I tried to explain to her why (months ago)… she would not listen. So to her I got what I deserved. “once someone messes up with her she shuts them out”… I guess that is why she is not with anyone and no one stays with her long at all.
    She offers no understanding to me and invalidates my hurt over any of my relationships because… “well they arent my Dad”.

    I feel shot with an arrow.

  158.  #158Tam on July 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    155 – hahaha!!!! That sums it all up I guess 🙂

  159.  #159Daria on July 5, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    yay i ate… more worshipping the goddess action now

  160.  #160Starla on July 5, 2012 at 2:14 pm


  161.  #161Starla on July 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    ooh siren song, thank you for sharing!

  162.  #162Daria on July 5, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    I liked that one with Barbara Streisand where her name is Rose, and he marries her cuz he wants to not have sex complicate stuff cuz theyre bookworms hehe – and then she transforms

  163.  #163Starla on July 5, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    154 Tam – I dunno if I have any, but lately I’ve been feeling inspired by Sheridyn Fisher, because she is unapologetic about her love of good nutrition and fitness. She looks amazing and is tiny and strong but gives off a very feminine vibe.

    I like the “warrior goddess” archetype. After I saw Katniss in Hunger Games, I was determined to dye my hair dark, lol. I have since talked myself out of that.

  164.  #164Starla on July 5, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    ooh, barbara streisand in general… she isn’t the prettiest thing, but turned down her husband’s proposals multiple times before finally agreeing. she is a true siren.

  165.  #165Calypso on July 5, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Diane Keaton – Love her!

  166.  #166Tam on July 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    oh yeah, Diane Keaton is another good one…Barbara Streisand too..

  167.  #167goldenflower on July 5, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Hey guys, how can tehr be so many new posts since I wa slast online this afternoon (UK Time). Wow, best get reading. I feel betetr tonight, this is always the thing to know and remember. I may feel awful in the morning but then i feel Ok in the evening. It is possible to feel better and whole. The sadness is lessening , in a couple of weeks it will be even less. I will really see those amazing sunsets outside my window, and enjoy them purely for what they are. Happy summer (((((((((((all sirens)))))))))))))

  168.  #168Daria on July 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    yay turmeric for my moms 🙂

  169.  #169lk on July 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    starla, i like jane eyre & lady ygraine : )

  170.  #170Starla on July 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Weird, I friended a local musician on fb the other day, and I looked at his profile and saw he was in a relationship. And I thought to myself “they’re going to break up.” I don’t know why… I just thought it. There were no signs that led me to this conclusion. And they broke up the next day.

  171.  #171lk on July 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    hi, daria! thanks for telling me about your money honey : ))))) i feel happy hearing that…. i feel nice to see you write my name too : ))))

  172.  #172siren song on July 5, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Oh yes! Katniss!!

  173.  #173goldenflower on July 5, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    128: Starla says:
    Jasmine, I wish mine would come back. And say SOMETHING. But I’m just telling myself that will never ever happen. I’m just cuttin my losses and telling myself he’s not the one for me. Even though I feel it in my bones we are going to be together one day. It could be decades from now. Who knows. I’m trying to let it go.

    Let it go. If he is able to step up at any point he will do it all by himself. Let him go, by any means necessary to your gloriousness. I am doing this too. NC and our NO is our warrior power, and it is a wnderful strong thing to do full of love for out self and our values. Honour your bridge always. Starla you are inspiring to me. Do not limit your options, there are many wonderful men you have yet to meet.

  174.  #174Starla on July 5, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    “If he is able to step up at any point he will do it all by himself.”

    🙂 Yes. This is the very definition of stepping up. Just as, as a woman, I must “step up” on my own to own my own triggers and emotional sh*t. We can help each other and inspire each other, but at the end of the day, we must step up on our own, or the relationship is flimsy.

    It feels so nice to read that I am inspiring you. I have so many people telling me this these days!! And I am seriously inspiring myself!

  175.  #175Casey on July 5, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Hello Rori and all of the wonderful ladies on this site,
    I’m not sure if this is the best place to write on this site right now, or if I should post this on another thread because it isn’t directly related to the original post, but I’ve posted in the “your stories” section and am under the impression that most people don’t read those frequently anymore.
    Anyways, first of all, I just want to say thank you to all of the ladies for sharing your stories on these posts and for being supportive of so many other women (and men), even if some of us (like myself) don’t post here often. I feels very comforting to know that when I need a place to turn, this blog is here.
    I’ll give a little background information, then launch into my current question/concern.
    I last posted on this site several years ago when I had broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years because I really just couldn’t feel good in the relationship. I had read a lot of the great advice on here and wanted to feel comfortable with me before trying to be comfortable in a relationship. I dated several men in the time that we were split up, but was still living in a shared house with my ex. Overall, things went well and eventually we decided to give it another try. By that time, I had regained some confidence I had lost (which usually came out as insecurity and jealousy), so didn’t feel insecure with him or jealous, or even like I had to be around him all the time. I knew what we were and that was enough for me.
    This is when something very interesting happened. I had gone back to school and started a full time job at around the same time, so was feeling very good about myself. Our relationship was going well, there was none of the anxiety I had previously felt about whether he really wanted to be with me or not. Then, he started having jealous reactions to some of the things that I was doing, so I tried to be more communicative with him so that he could feel comfortable with the kind of “new” me. Eventually, he asked me to marry him, and even then, I was very up front with him about the jealousy thing. I told him that I have always been a busy-body, and even if I don’t work all the time, I’m not going to stay home all the time. I just don’t work that way. I love to travel and learn and take classes, and I have been like that forever (I traveled alone a lot from when I graduated high school until I was 25). It’s just who I am. He agreed and said that he was ok with that, so we got married.
    Since we’ve been married, 1.5 years, the jealousy hasn’t stopped. When we first started dating 5 years ago, I don’t remember him being that jealous, but I may have been more insecure than him and more focused on my own insecurities. I know he used to tell me that I was “too friendly” and that some guys would get the wrong impression, so at the time, I thought it was me. I don’t feel that way any more though. Now, there are times when I feel like I can’t even go to events with him because he’s going to think that some guy or other is hitting on me, or I’m looking at someone, or something like that. He’s never been violent towards me, but twice he has thrown huge fits in public over it. It’s not every time we go out, but it’s often enough that I never know when it’s going to happen. It also tends to happen when he’s drinking, which I’m aware of and nervous about.
    I should also mention that he’s even made “jokes” about it regarding my work and things like that, which I’ve told him don’t feel good. Also, I am the major breadwinner in our marriage because he is not from this country and I was already established when we met. He works in the arts and has had his work cut way back over these 5 years. He has also had a girlfriend cheat on him in the past, so I know he is insecure in that way. I know that his insecurities are his to deal with and I can’t fix them for him. Things are just becoming a struggle and I’m not sure what to do. I’ve talked with him about trust and things like that, and he’ll tell me he trusts me, but then turn right around and tell me that he thinks I’m cheating on him.
    I feel so afraid I’m going to resent him at some point. I also really don’t like feeling restricted and stifled (which I’ve told him). Obviously, it’s come to a point where I’m at a loss. I want our marriage to work, but I cannot lose myself. Any ideas/advice/suggestions would be very very much appreciated.

  176.  #176Starla on July 5, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Sometimes I feel very misunderstood by women. Some women say I am TOO nice and not angry enough. And others say I am too angry and attacky.

    I love me, though:)

  177.  #177Starla on July 5, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    I am going to keep channeling this warrior spirit of mine into physical outlets.

    I had to scale back on the politics stuff because it was too much for me to handle, but tonight I’m going ‘to battle” for the cause and I think my adrenals are responding a bit prematurely (like how triggered I felt by FW and how triggered and misunderstood I feel by Rori and FW). Love my adrenals for doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.

  178.  #178Starla on July 5, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    hey! that musician i posted about in 169 just private messaged me. haha, i knew it! i had a weird feeling this was all going to happen.

    how strange.

    i’d like to attend some sort of workshop about channeling my intuition more constructively. it’s getting sharper and sharper.

  179.  #179Siren Angel on July 5, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Memulo, thank you for your comment. I did do just that yesterday, just stepped out on porcho for a while as it was raining hard

  180.  #180Rori Raye on July 5, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Starla – Hi – I want to keep up here so I can get as connected to you as possible, because, as you know, I value you tremendously. What you say here, is for me, where I feel my job is: “I WAS specifically attacking in this case. Sometimes, however, with men, I come off as attacking when I’m really not meaning to.”

    In my world, I can’t open up some of the time and not others. I can’t attack some of the time and not others. Then we get into judgment and analysis about when we should shut down and when we should attack, and when we shouldn’t. I say jettison all that and simply stay open and undefended 100% of the time – and not even BELIEVE in the concept of attack. (And this is from a woman who reads military science fiction and follows imaginary war battles in space….)

    The thing is the belief in attack as any kind of option. Or defense, for that matter. The literature and stories around Non-Violent Communication as set out originally is the successful disarming of rapists, murderers, all kinds of folks on the “attack” through the use of Non-Violent Communication. (I use some of it in my Feeling Messages…but NVC goes further in a more “boy” approach where you are actively engaging with the “attacking” person and doing what you do with everyone – deciphering what THEIR NEEDS are – through the statements you make to them and the questions you ask.

    Essentially it’s getting into a kind of “fellowship” or sisterhood, where you realize that everything you perceive as “coming at you” is simply another person trying to get their needs met. And while we’re triggered to fear, or anger, or whatever – the simple answer is to allow the other person to feel heard, and to at least acknowledge what their needs might be.

    Yeah, it’s a bother. Yeah, it means taking the focus off ourselves and considering what’s going on with the other person. And yeah, it won’t work if it’s done with an “agenda,” and it won’t work if it’s done without some compassion – both for yourself and for the other person – but primarily for yourself. And it really won’t work if you’re pretending to care about what the other person’s needs are.

    Actions and words are just the outward manifestation of what’s going on inside us. And when we use everything that happens around us to help us discover “where we’re coming from” – it’s amazing the kind of “wholeness” and peace you can start feeling.

    Yes, I know that it’s easy for a gorgeous, strong woman to get unwanted attention from men, and it’s easy for a caring woman to be besieged by people who want her to care for them. And yet – there are ways to deal with that that don’t involve shutting down or attacking.

    I’ll keep writing about this…Love, Rori

  181.  #181Rori Raye on July 5, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Starla – I’m missing the discussions between you and FW – I’ll look for it, both of you…Love, Rori

  182.  #182Starla on July 5, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    I should have just ignored Esteemed’s comment, I suppose. I mean, I could have. In my mind, I thought, “oh well she’ll just say how upset she is that I don’t respond to her, like any time I don’t acknowledge her addressing me.” but that is putting myself in a victim place. I assumed that no matter what I said, it wouldn’t be good enough, unless I gave her exactly what she wanted. I don’t deal with this in real life, but maybe one day I will, when I’m married.

    i did feel victimized as a non-chr*stian. And as someone who doesn’t particularly enjoy the quality of communication that goes on between me and this other person.

    I dunno. I really will think about what you’re saying.

  183.  #183Starla on July 5, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    wooo my adrenals are ON. Maybe I should leave work earlier and get to the political warrior work on my agenda tonight.

  184.  #184Rori Raye on July 5, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Elaine – I don’t want to tell you to do or not do anything. You’re a grown-up woman. You get to make your OWN rules. He’s decided (and he has every right to make this decision) to do whatever his granddaughter asks of him – even if it hurts your feelings. There IS no “right or wrong” here. It’s only what you can tolerate and be okay with, and what you can’t. If it were me, and I loved him, and he was great in other ways to me, and it felt good to be with him, and I was 72 and wanted to continue to date him – I’d make peace with the granddaughter thing, accept everything he’s got in “first position” and see how it plays out.

    Over time, the granddaughter may come to like, or even love you, and want you around. Right now – she’s freaked out about you – and that’s understandable from her vantage point – and she clearly not only THINKS she has power over grandpa – she truly DOES. At only 2 months dating – you have no choice. He’s made it clear it’s not negotiable. Either accept it all or reject him completely – there is no gray area – and complaining or trying to talk him into including you or making you “first” will only drive him away.

    If you don’t like the situation, then dump him. If you can live with it, try living with it. Just don’t complain. It’s either Yes or No. Love, Rori

  185.  #185Starla on July 5, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    why is it so taboo to just say some people are crazy-making? like, i’m open to everything you have to say, Rori. But sometimes some people are just toxic and I don’t want to play in the sandbox with them. I don’t want to be responsible for talking the psychos/rapists/murderers out of being psycho. Mostly I’d like to stay away. I wasn’t born yesterday; I know who I should stay away from, and who is kinda “off” in their heads. And maybe I come off this way to other people, too! But it’s their right to stay away, too.

  186.  #186Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Starla – I’m interested in your dream. I love dreams and I believe they have power. May I offer an interpretation?

    You may have already intuited your own meaning, so if I write something here that’s totally off, just disregard it. I feel a little nervous writing this, and I hope I’m not being presumptuous. I’m curious to know what you think/feel about the following…

    So you’ve been visualizing a new man in your life – the one who is really right for you? And he appeared in this dream? I think this means he is on his way to you. When he finds you he wil be ready to free himself from “the Matrix,” which I interpret as the web of useless beliefs we humans hang onto which keep ourselves from achieving our full potential. He is looking for freedom now. You will be the missing puzzle piece he was searching for. I believe Rori when she says that a man CAN NOT get to this mysterious place on his own, but only through connection with a Siren.

    You say you connected the new Visualization Man with CF in your mind during the dream. I suspect your dream is telling you that with Visualization Man, you will FEEL the same intense attraction and connection you felt toward CF. (Is it still hard for you to believe you could feel this intensely toward someone other than CF?) The sense of freedom and awakening you felt with Visualization Man in your dream is what you are on your way to feeling with him in real life – without the dampening effects that CF’s unwillingness to step up caused.

    The last part of the dream is about your struggle. When you lost the Visualization Man in exchange for CF, and spent the rest of the dream brooding over him, or calculating how to get him back: I think this is about how your CF fixation (and I use that phrase with total empathy) is getting in your way – draining your power and keeping Visualization Man at a distance, possibly preventing him from finding you. (I realize that you are very self aware and you’re currently working on that issue. I believe in you, and I feel confident that you WILL rise above it. And I extend that same confidence to myself, even with the things I’ve been struggling with. This feels good.)

    I think your dream is a prophecy telling you that once you have achieved the confidence and freedom you seek, Vizualization Man will manifest in your life. And nothing will be the same after that.

    I think you are very close to all the things you seek. And I feel excited for you, and a little nervous because I know I’ve written some things that are pretty personal and I hope I haven’t made too many assumptions. If I have blundered, please forgive my impulsive, uninvited interpretation… I often feel excited when I hear or experience meaningful dreams, because I find such deep meaning in them.

  187.  #187Starla on July 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Lily Medusa

    Wow, that brings tears to my eyes.
    Thank you. 100% resonated for me. Seriously. You should do this for a living.

  188.  #188Starla on July 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    I have to go, and I can’t wait to get home and read the dream interpretation again!

  189.  #189Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 4:21 pm



  190.  #190Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    I feel good after posting that interpretation just now, because it took my mind off feeling so yucky and triggered from something that happened this morning. I have been spending waaay more time than usual with J, what with one thing and another. Everything has gone smoothly for 2 weeks with A LOT of extra time together, and in these last few days I have been thinking about how good I will feel when I get a few days to myself.

    I had slept over at his house. I drew him a funny cartoon depicting a coworker he hates. It made him laugh his a$s off. As I was leaving he handed me a dollar and asked me if I would get him a Peace Tea before I went home. I brought the tea to his work (right next to his house, so my total errand took like 5 minutes) and when I showed up he had my cartoon hanging in a cabinet. He was feeling laughy and (clearly without thinking) said something like “ha ha ha, what if Emily comes over and looks in this cabinet, she will laugh, ha ha ha.”

    Now, Emily is the cute, young, blonde daughter of the owner of the shop where J works. She is best friends with J’s little sister and has known J forever. He thinks she is cute and cool and he often criticizes her husband. Also, she lives in a neighborhood very close to J’s. Emily comes to visit her dad and brother who work at the shop, and she often stops to chat with J.

    So when J said that, I felt overcome with a surge of jealousy! Insecurity! Suspicion! Like, WTF?! This girl feels comfortable enough to go walking around J’s private workspace opening cabinets and shit? If so, she’s more comfortable in his space than I am, for godsakes! And why is she the first person to pop into his head?

    I let myself feel all upset but didn’t say anything, just smiled and accepted his hug and left. I am certain he felt my vibe shift (he’s very sensitive to my vibe that way). I didn’t want to fight about it then, but for hours now I have been feeling like I DO want to fight about it. Wild accusations and horrid fantasies have been running through my head.

    Obviously I’m totally triggered. I’d really like to be on my own this afternoon/evening and get in a better feeling mode with myself. But I agreed to practice with him tonight, since our little backyard band is playing at his grandfather’s birthday party tomorrow. Arrrgh.

  191.  #191Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Awwww, Starla, thank you! (188) I feel so good reading that.

    Wow, I have recently been imagining how great it would feel to interpret dreams for a living. Thanks for your suggestion – that is very meaningful for me. I have had a vague-ish plan to do something specific to put that out there, and now I feel inspired to really do it!

  192.  #192Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Oh, and Starla, I am waaaaay curious about what you are doing for the legalization campaign. Represent! Legalize it! Yay! Best of luck to you, whatever it is.

  193.  #193Rebecca on July 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Starla ~ i get called ‘too nice’ all the time and I find it so frustrating and also confusing, I mean what is ‘too nice’??

    I also get called ‘opinionated’?? Geees I can’t win….

  194.  #194Rebecca on July 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    What I’ve noticed about myself is how little I notice other people. I am so wrapped up in my own thoughts, feelings and concerns I don’t notice or register others… Hmmmm???

    I was with a male friend tonight and I felt sad because for the first time ever I felt like I take him for granted… I don’t really read him, if you know what I mean. I am often accued of this?

    How do I change ? How do i tune into others better???

  195.  #195Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Healing Waterfall,

    135 – Ouch. That was harsh. But you do make sense. But sometimes when I was with my boyfriend it was only sex… some others it felt like more than that. Cause you can tell the difference can’t you? I don’t know.

    If I had known about this blog none of this would have happened. It would probably have been a totally different story. I won’t dwell on the past though, it died for a reason. I will for sure watch myself before I get involved with somebody else. Had a lot to learn.

    Thanks a lot!!
    I liked your perspective.



  196.  #196Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Heading over to J’s for practice now. I will LEAVE exactly at 10pm (that’s the agreement with his upstairs neighbor about how long we can jam). I’m feeling a big desire for some Medusa boundaries right now, and this is a clear one for me today. I want to get to bed on time and feel good going to work in the morning. I am NOT sleeping over at his house again tonight. If he asks me about my jealousy issue, I’ll be honest. So there.

    Mainly I’m announcing this now so I will feel accountable and not cave in to lazily sleeping over with him instead of driving home. It’s so much easier to keep a goal when I have it written down (especially publicly).


  197.  #197Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 5:53 pm


    140 – I guess it can happen. But I don’t want to think it happened to me, although things point out that way.

    Btw is that you on the picture?

  198.  #198Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Rori from my end I read Starla’s comment sharing her dream. The dream was shared in comment 24 and ended with the word “lame”. I read it as meaning she thinks she is lame because she was agonizing the rest of the night about her ex. So I shared that in comment 25 that it reads like someone judging themself as lame. One of the reason I pointed it out is because I have experienced that things can fly below the radar of our consciousness but when we write and speak, these things come out and others who are not closely tied to the situation can see it easier than the particular individual. Also I tend to focus on words because I notice that men have a tendency to kind of explain words differently than we do. I also believe that when we change our words we can change our lives including our internal world where we use certain words to describe ourselves and damage our self-esteem.

    It was only out of concern that I pointed it out but I totally appreciate that words on a screen can be taken in any direction.

  199.  #199Daria on July 5, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Rebecca – i notice yourself beating urself up in almost any post… i would flip all of my statements and rewrite it

    “What I’ve noticed about myself is how little I notice other people.

    “what ive noticed about myself is how caring and attentive i am! and that feels like smiling and opening up my chest…

    ‘I am so wrapped up in my own thoughts, feelings and concerns I don’t notice or register others… Hmmmm???’

    “i pay attention to myself and keep my focus on me and am also soft to others

    i feel like a huge diva ocean with soft waves…

    ive practiced this for myself and did notice big shifts overtime

  200.  #200Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    I posted recently about the daughter of one of the Sirens, Lucy. Her daughter’s name is Caety, and here is some news.

    Caety is now mostly off oxygen during the days, but still on it for sleeping, and is going for short walks with oxygen support.
    BIG NEWS: The travel insurance company was denying any coverage of a medical flight home, due to “pre-existing medical conditions” that I believe they were aware of when they sold it to Caety. Due to some pressure from outside sources they are now covering most of the flight – about 12,000 dollars is still needed. If you can contribute anything every little bit will help. This total is much more reachable.

    So far, only a total of $510 has been donated. $1 $5 $10 $20 $30… whatever you can do. I ask unashamedly for everyone to help them.

    The total takes a few days to update so your donation may not show up right away. It says $80 right now but this is wrong.
    Chip In won’t let me changes the $85K total. We really only need about $12,000
    ChipIn: Bring Caety Home! Young woman needs medical flight from Denmark to USA!

  201.  #201Starla on July 5, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Holy cow!! The man I went to see tonight at the legalization campaign was 90% the likeness of the guy I’ve been visualizing. Seriously! I could feel it in my bones when I was walking there tonight that he would remind me of the image i’ve had in my head, even though i’ve never met the guy before.

    We flirted and had a great time. I didn’t think of CF ONCE. And I helped the cause out:)

    I feel great. The universe is SERIOUSLY communicating with me.

    Then the guitarist of my favorite local band called me to ask me out. It felt sweet.

  202.  #202Starla on July 5, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    wow and that other musician i friended (see 170) messaged me on fb just now to ask me out for coffee!

    i feel like a hot commodity hehe

  203.  #203Starla on July 5, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    192 lily medusa, awww i feel so happy to hear how supportive you are! we are trying to legalize it in my state. I used to work for the campaign for a year and half as a director.

    i met my replacement there tonight… looks so much like the guy i’ve been visualizing. Somehow I knew he would, but not all the way. I just knew the universe wanted to tell me “it’s coming. you’re getting warmer…”


    i feel hopeful about what the universe has in store for me.

    I want to learn more about my intuition. It’s pretty amazing.

  204.  #204Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Here’s the Basic Drill for Practicing Circular Dating (the Hows of it, all the nuts and bolts, every baby step, is in my Targeting Mr. Right program):

    1. Love yourself hard (hug yourself often and never beat yourself up for mistakes)
    2. Set it up so you’re in the middle of opportunity – online and where you go and what you do
    2. Once you’re in the middle of opportunity – practice just being – instead of doing
    3. Smile at everyone you see if you’re feeling good – and if you’re not feeling good – work on THAT
    4. Talk with every man who talks to you first.
    5. Go out with every man who asks you unless he frightens you.
    6. Get curious – about the world and everyone in it and everyone you see and talk to
    7. Listen
    8. Feel
    9. Express instead of Impress (forget all about what anyone else thinks – you just love YOU)
    10. Speak the Truth
    11. Speak only about yourself. No gossip, no analyzing him or anyone else, no judging. Just YOU.
    12. Be Surprised

    Try these and see how it can change your love life practically overnight.


  205.  #205Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 8:16 pm


    204 – I like that. It actually made me think about earlier today, I went to the cafeteria and a friend of mine sees me and asks me “why do you look so happy?” LOL. It’s all about the attitude, people notice you whenever you have good vibe. Keeping it up!

  206.  #206Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    When do people stop shooting fireworks? These people are now driving me nuts, I can’t even sleep! Ugh

  207.  #207Starla on July 5, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    “9. Express instead of Impress (forget all about what anyone else thinks – you just love YOU)”

    this is a hard one for me. I did this a few times tonight, with all 3 guys.

    it’s just…i’m so impressive:D. and i want them all to know.

    Fortunately, I am also very very expressive and talk in feeling messages extensively, so it surely balances it out and mitigates most “damage” here. But I intend to soften up in this area.

  208.  #208Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    How old are you Starla?

  209.  #209Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 8:26 pm


    I am texting R right now, and he lightly brought up our conflict. I decided to go with what you said, and I lightly addressed it in feeling messages via text!!! It went well! We are back on beautiful topics now!

    Thanks a lot! I feel like we broke the ice and now it will feel comfortable to bring it up anytime, anywhere.

  210.  #210Jasmine on July 5, 2012 at 8:28 pm


    How long has it been since you don’t see R in person?

  211.  #211Starla on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    jasmine 208 – I’m 27. you?

  212.  #212Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 pm


    I read your posts in the last thread. I wonder if he wants to talk to you because maybe he really DOES want to work it out. Have you seen him yet? I would just go with it and do my best to speak calmly in feeling messages, “I feel sad; angry; upset; scared; or what-have-you”.

    Sometimes when it gets confusing and goes back and forth really fast, I find it helps to clear things up and calm me down by just backing away for a bit and giving it some time and space.

  213.  #213Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 pm


    210 – I saw R last week when he helped me take the kittens to the vet while I was at work. Before that, I hadn’t seen him in 4 months.

  214.  #214Esteemed on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 pm


    129 – I feel happy for you! I find in the fine details of a relationship, it is where it really happens. I break down my interactions a lot, so I can fine tune how I relate.

  215.  #215Femininewoman on July 5, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    “I was feeling uncomfortable and very masculine paying for things. It’s something I’ve been doing for so long with men, and it’s just always felt bad, and I wanted to start fresh and feel more like a girl. How would you like to handle money while we’re dating?”

  216.  #216Jilly on July 5, 2012 at 9:47 pm


    ok Rugby Man and I just got back from spending the WEEK 12 hrs north where I grew up and it felt amazing…

    we got back earlier today…then I had school tonight and I feel exhausted…it’s Rugby Man’s birthday today and he said he is grabbing a beer with his buddies (men and their girlfriends) who I’ve met them all…and he invited me…

    BUT I feel too tired so I declined and now I’m feeling guilty…like I should go out because it’s his birthday. He said it was ok that I didn’t go…

    I wanted him to go and do his thing and I feel more than happy to stay home and go to sleep earlier…so that’s what I’m doing!!! 🙂 I do feel happy I’m doing what feels best to me..

    any thoughts???

  217.  #217Daria on July 5, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    Esteemed – great! now DONT bring it up! just be prepared IF he does and FM it – Vigilantly

    but if he doesn’t ever bring it up again that’s fine too

  218.  #218Daria on July 5, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    ((((Jilly)))) that one’s tough. I would feel guilty too.

    then again tired gf = ew

    maybe when you’re feeling soo rested you’ll be inspired to give back in ‘other ways’

  219.  #219Daria on July 5, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    it feels left out and i feel anxiou being left out

    i feel all this resentment

    this blocked wall tension

    i love my blocked wall tension

    i feel so terrified

    i feel sad

  220.  #220Daria on July 5, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    I went and i took a hit of tincture of st joans wort


    i really do feel different in mood

    im liking this!

  221.  #221Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 11:09 pm


  222.  #222Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    I did come back. Not quite at ten, but at eleven. And that’s okay. I feel proud of me anyway. ((me))

    I kinda felt weird when I left. His goodbye was not quite as loving as I had… hoped? expected? fantasized? Or maybe it was me that was off.

    I already felt weird from the jealousy thing earlier, and from the tons of extra time with him these past few weeks, with so little time to myself. I’m missing my evening walks that I take on my nights when I’m with myself. I’m feeling like I’ve done a lot of the “us” thing this past two weeks, and now I’m yearning to do some “me” things and let him chase after me a bit more. And it’s been a while since I’ve seen any of my girl friends. I will certainly devote most of next week to Medusa. As for this weekend, I’ll see how I feel.

  223.  #223Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Starla, that is tooooo cool about the guy who took your place. I feel excited for you.

  224.  #224Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Femininewoman, thanks so much for posting that Circular Dating drill. That really helps me! I was so excited to see it that I wrote the steps in my current notebook so I can refer to it often. Thanks FW, and thanks Rori for writing it.

    What are the guidelines for if I’m at a social event with my guy and other men approach me? Do I talk and interact with them just as I would if J were not in the vicinity? I have a fear that I’d get carried away and hurt his feelings.

  225.  #225Rebecca on July 5, 2012 at 11:49 pm


    Thanks for the input. I’m not sure I understand completely though?

    Also, reading my post again a thought came to me that as usual I am beating myself up for not being there for other people, and completely ignoring the fact that they are not there for me either.

    I think I over think things a lot….

  226.  #226Lily Medusa on July 5, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    Jilly, I agree with Daria. Depending on how close you are with him and how you feel about it… well, if it was me and I was close with him, I’d possibly just make some nice gesture honoring his birthday. Nothing too giving-y, but maybe like a card? I don’t know how close you two are to each other, so I don’t know if that would feel normal in your situation or if it would feel like leaning forward to you (if not, I wouldn’t do it).

    If he is close with you (and it sounds like he was genuinely hoping to have you along), he sounds pretty cool and understanding. How nice that he wants you to relax and feel good and it’s not all about him and his birthday. It sounds to me like he cares about you. 🙂

  227.  #227Rebecca on July 6, 2012 at 12:03 am


    This post sounds like you are beating yourself up. Hope you don’t mind me saying that.

    it feels left out and i feel anxiou being left out

    i feel all this resentment

    this blocked wall tension

    i love my blocked wall tension

    i feel so terrified

    i feel sad

  228.  #228Tam on July 6, 2012 at 12:04 am

    I feel scared of contacting MrU for something trivial that I need. I have been contemplating this for days now and I just can’t get myself to do it. What’s up with that? Grr.

  229.  #229Lily Medusa on July 6, 2012 at 12:06 am

    Tam, I believe in you! I bet he wants to help you.

  230.  #230Lily Medusa on July 6, 2012 at 12:07 am

    Yawn… I am so tired… Going to bed now.

    Yay for music!

  231.  #231Tam on July 6, 2012 at 12:13 am

    229 thank you Lily Medusa, yes I know he does, still. I don’t know why I feel like this.

  232.  #232Rebecca on July 6, 2012 at 12:20 am

    I feel so glad Daria has pointed this out to me. I feel it is done in a really caring way. I don’t know where my tendancy to beat myself up comes from. It is a sore point for me?!

    Thank you Daria.

  233.  #233Boasgirl on July 6, 2012 at 12:20 am

    I feel unloved,

    i feel scared,

    i feel like everything is slowing down –

    i love my fear and my sadness –

    i feel something in my chest, warm, heavy, sad, like water, running up through my throat –

    i feel tired in the muscles, even my fingers, as i’m writing this –

  234.  #234Rebecca on July 6, 2012 at 12:28 am


    Thanks for posting the circular dating drill. My only issueis wirh this statement:

    11. Speak only about yourself. No gossip, no analyzing him or anyone else, no judging. Just YOU.

    I feel very self concious talking about myself. I have had such negative reactions in the past I feel it has made me very shy in expressing myself to men. I am much better at listening than talking and I like to ask lots of questions.

    I fear men rolling their eyes at me, or judging me. I have had it so many times and feel almost grateful if I don’t get that reaction, and I’m sick and tired if having to feel grateful. Does that make sense?

    I just want the conversation to be easy and flow…

  235.  #235Zara on July 6, 2012 at 12:38 am

    87: Tam

    *** Oh,I know he loves me. But he makes all his future planning without me, and he does’t offer a commitment.
    He offered to marry me (half-heartedly) and I said:
    ‘I would never do this to you, because I know that this is not your wish nd I respect you too much to ask this of you’.
    So no, I never put pressure on him in any way. ***

    He does not offer a commitment yet he offered to marry you?

    ***I would never do this to you, because I know that this is not your wish***
    He might have understood you were simply refusing to marry him. He might have been under the impression that your answer was a projection and you, Tam, would not do that to yourself because marrying him is not what you, Tam, wish to do,

    ***because I know that this is not your wish nd I respect you too much to ask this of you***
    Tweak to get back into my body:
    “I respect MYSELF too much to marry a man when I don’t feel 100% wanted by him. (or when I don’t want him 100%)”

    *** I know it is not your wish***
    This could be perceived by the man as you saying he is an idi*t, he does not know what he is doing when he proposes to a woman. Or he is a liar or something that won’t make him feel tall.

    ***I respect you too much to ask this of you***
    You don’t ASK for marriage, you allow men to step in the space around you to propose to you. Then you accept one among the ones who propose to you. But don’t put yourself in the position to be the one asking for marriage to one unique man.
    You make your requirements be known clearly but you do not ask anything to any one man, you let them feel inspired to meet the requirements or to move on.
    You sent him the message he was not proposing to you from his own heart because he wanted to. You made it sound he was only doing a chore, denying the possibility of any feelings. You cut his b*lls off.

    ***He offered to marry me (half-heartedly)***
    I don’t know that a man is half hearted when a man proposes to me.
    All I know is he proposes to me, which is something he rarely does in his life time.
    How many times in his life is a man inspired to propose? May it be to help you with your papers or may it be because he wants to live with you and have babies with you.
    He proposed to you, his energy was into giving to you his precious legal freedom, his social status as a single man, his family name!!!!! He took the risk you’d ask him for alimony when you divorce from him, and you’d inherit from his family and much more. It jeopardizes his own dating, you know, it is very difficult to convince another woman that he is engaged to her when his name and his finances are legally tied with you! Any other woman he would date would get that his energy is into you for the moment, even if it is said it is only for the papers.

    His heart was into being tied down to you legally!

    Could it be you expected the proposal to be done in a certain way, so you don’t recognize your wish is happening when it is happening because it does not wear the colours you imagined it would wear?

    He might whole heartedly have told you he wants to marry you to help with papers.
    I mean if you told him you need marriage for visa papers, he might not feel inspired to propose for love and babies. He staid within the closed small “paper” box created for your relationship.
    And if your heart wants him to propose to you for love and babies, your heart is telling your mind you can’t do that to yourself, you can’t accept a “paper only” marriage. And you project it on him and say “I would not do that to you”.

    His heart might have felt blocked from proposing to you in a romantic way because his heart is dealing with a woman who says she needs marriage for visa papers.
    Yet he did offer marriage. His energy was into making you happy. And into keeping you close to him.

    Or could it be you know deep down you don’t feel like settling with this man and have his children?
    He might have been whole heartedly wanting to marry you, for whatever reason of his, while you would have been the one not feeling what you want to feel with a husband. You might be the one who felt half hearted about marrying him.

    ***I would never do this to you,***
    sounds castrating. Male energy.
    You are controlling his ideas, his impulse to give to you. You don’t trust his ability to know what is good for him and what he can do or can not do for himself. He offers to marry you, that’s his business, you have no business in judging he does not know what he is doing. He is offering to give to you and you brushed him away.
    When he proposes to you, you are not “doing” anything to him by accepting. He is the one taking the decision to marry you. He is a big boy, he owns his proposal, but you took it from him. By saying what you said, you make it sound the proposal is your action, your decision, and would be done against his free will, like controlling him, making him a toy in your hands.

    Trust the man to know what he is doing with himself and trust him to be doing what he wants to do. When he says “I can marry you, if you want”, then it means he can marry you if you want.
    So “what you want” is your focus.
    You stay inside your body and you find what you want for yourself.

    And you can
    refuse the proposal because you don’t love the man who proposes.
    refuse the proposal because you don’t want to be married in such and such circumstances.
    refuse the proposal because you don’t feel cherished and safe.
    you can accept the proposal.

    Whatever works for you. As long as it comes from you and is about you and is for your best interest. As long as it feels good.

    I could say “wow I feel moved by the proposal. And at the same time I feel confused because we spoke so much of my “papers” issue. I want to marry for love, to feel cherished by my husband and plan our lives together.. . What do you think? “
    And I’d leave space for him to switch and speak of a loving committed marriage with me.

    If not, if he says clearly “oh! Sorry, I meant I can marry you for the papers. I want to help you out because I love you. I don’t feel like settling down and make babies and plan everything with you, it would only be a marriage on the paper.”

    then I can say:
    “aww I feel sad. I feel appreciative of your intention to help me, yet my heart is breaking to be offered an open marriage by a man I have romantic feelings for. I don’t think I can do that to MYSELF. I can not accept such proposal.”

    It makes it clear that you know your own worth, you don’t refuse for his sake but for YOURS.
    You are number one in your own life. You take care of yourself. Which makes you a safe woman to be married to.
    It also makes it clear you expect a husband committed to your marriage.
    The clearer you are, the more chances Universe will send what you want.

  236.  #236Boasgirl on July 6, 2012 at 12:55 am

    a review of the past months –

    i have worked more than before, which for the most part felt good, but i also realize that i need to practice saying no to things i don’t want, or that feel like they will be too much for me –

    i have been obsessing about mr. x, and it was brought to a point of culmination, and i feel like i have relased him now, more than before –

    i feel more open to meeting new men

    in april i went to nyc for the first time in my life – it felt amazing, and also just to follow a dream, do something for myself felt like a real breakthrough –

    i feel tired now, like i want to relax, recapture my energy, re-understand things –

    i feel empty, and full at the same time

  237.  #237Tam on July 6, 2012 at 1:43 am

    235 – Zara, wow, thanks so much for this…I love what you wrote…but there is more to the story.

    He ‘asked me’ to marry him while I was with another man who wanted to marry me. And it came up whilst I discussed it with him. He said:
    ‘I am worried that you marry this guy, I would do it for you, but it has to be a win-win situation. If I could go and live in … (he wants to live somewhere else), then that would be good deal’.
    So whatever he did or didn’t say, for me that isn’t a serious proposal, and I felt he was just trying to pull me away from my then bf so that we could have a ‘relationship’ that suits him, one without commitment. But I don’t know. He actually said (haha) ‘you can have my name if you want’. Too funny.

    If he asked me seriously to marry him I’d do it at a shot…believe me. But I felt he was offering ‘tit for tat’ and as soon as I had split up with my then bf (for other reasons but also because he came back), he retrackted on the marriage offer and from then on started saying ‘why don’t you marry soandso’ – which of course it out of the question.

    It was indeed big del tht he even offered, s he never even lived with anyone before, but I don’t know the motive. I think he just wanted to help me, he hs referred to himself s not being a one-woman man and that says it all to me.
    And no, I did not want to put pressure on him (you don’t know the history), as he used to have mental problems and gets stressed with his business etc – I saw the man crack two years ago.
    As a matter of fact when I said that I ‘did not expect him to help me in that way’ he was relieved. I know he was. And then he did start contacting me more and opening up about a lot of things.

    I don’t know what to believe anymore. The baby thing: he always hinted at having babies (with me) but it was always jokingly, but he said it so many times I was beginning to wonder…and now I saw on his internet profile he wants kids….I don’t get it, I believe he might be confused – as he also wants to move to Europe…I really don’t know.
    I think all this contributes to not wanting to be in contact, it is just too painful in some ways….

    and as I told him that I want a committed relationship (not with him, in general) he said: oh, we want different things, I’d rather have fwb and you are not that type, so let’s be platonic friends…
    so what am I to make of this other than staying away Zara?! It’s a bit of a mess.

  238.  #238Tam on July 6, 2012 at 1:54 am

    He might whole heartedly have told you he wants to marry you to help with papers.
    I mean if you told him you need marriage for visa papers, he might not feel inspired to propose for love and babies. He staid within the closed small “paper” box created for your relationship.
    And if your heart wants him to propose to you for love and babies, your heart is telling your mind you can’t do that to yourself, you can’t accept a “paper only” marriage. And you project it on him and say “I would not do that to you”.

    Zara, yes, that could well have been what happened…but who knows.

  239.  #239Tam on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 am

    I don’t feel I can ever bring it up again, and I suspect he feels the same. It’s true, I did refuse it, because I did not feel it was genuine for one or the other reason, actually.
    Yet knowing this man he never retracts when he gives a word….hm…he is the exact opposite of unreliable….and he is a man of few words.
    Well, what’s done is done.

  240.  #240Goldenflower on July 6, 2012 at 2:10 am

    “Holy cow!! The man I went to see tonight at the legalization campaign was 90% the likeness of the guy I’ve been visualizing. Seriously! I could feel it in my bones when I was walking there tonight that he would remind me of the image i’ve had in my head, even though i’ve never met the guy before.

    We flirted and had a great time. I didn’t think of CF ONCE. And I helped the cause out:)

    I feel great. The universe is SERIOUSLY communicating with me.

    Then the guitarist of my favorite local band called me to ask me out. It felt sweet.”

    Yay Starla. this is so exciting!! Sometimes crazy things do happen. Haha, this is a Friday gift!
    I’m feeling full of energy today, first time all week. I feel almost good!!! Re-activiated my match.com account last night, have had a couple of winks. Helps me to feel i have options again even if I take a while to be into dating. I feel I have given this ex enough energy now. This feeling may change again but today I feel I can see me and my plans, I am present in the now. Just wanted to share this. xx

  241.  #241Scarlet on July 6, 2012 at 2:56 am

    Number 1 and Number 2 signs of guys not worthy of dating, are rolled up into my man. I feel pathetic that I cannot end it. He’s let me down again tonight with no promised phone call and now not answering.
    I feel angry now though. Always a drama, always an excuse. God, I wish I was stronger.

  242.  #242Linda on July 6, 2012 at 3:33 am

    #197. Yes it is me

  243.  #243Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 3:54 am


    217 – Thank you! Yes, being prepared and everyone’s input really helped! I think there is more to discuss, but I feel like we reached some common ground on the big conflict.

    More was discussed, and I just chose my words carefully. I think it will come up again, but I will take it as it comes. Just to remind you, he is the one who keeps bringing it up.

  244.  #244Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 3:56 am

    R and I have been texting for a couple of hours this morning…he just told me he thinks I would be good in bed, LOL! Wow! This relationship is still a friendship, but it has most definitely turned a corner!

    He is no longer talking about a third person “woman”, but about ME.

  245.  #245Annie on July 6, 2012 at 4:46 am

    Turtle girl says

    “When a man tells you that he has nothing to offer you- believe him. He doesn’t!! When a man wants you to do all the emotional work while he sits back and takes- you will just end up feeling resentful and drained and angry and crappy. It will be all wrong and nothing will fix it. He is not going to change. A leopard does not change his spots! He is a leopard and was all along!

    When a man tells you “I am not gonna chase you” believe him. He is not going to!! That means he does not care enough to make the effort to win you. PERIOD.

    This guy was/is not a man. He was/is a little boy in a man suit. He is also 56 years old!!! Chances are he is NEVER going to be any different. No wonder he never can keep a woman for very long and no wonder I got so angry at him. Geeeeze-I woke up from the dream at around 5 months and realized. WTF am I doing here?

    Well, what I was doing there was learning my boundaries are way out of whack and somehow I lost my real self and it did not feel good at all. And I was his “girlfriend” and yes that is a BIG mistake. He had me-and then proceed to treat me however he thought he could get away with. Oh I protested-many times, but always relented. I was too nice. Too loving.

    Then the sex wained off big time. Then he got remote and distant. Then the affection went away. He took me for granted. He called at the last minute to make plans.
    He put me last, not first as a priority.”

    OMG, I feel in synch with turtle girl apart from I married the Man and had two children with him.

    After doing Roris tools and the work on myself I now realize I was attracted to him because he felt like home to me and I was repeating the same abuse I got of my parents believing this was love.
    This was not and is not love it is pain torture pure and simple. 🙁

    I had made up my mind to baby step and get him and my children out of our lives after stating I will no longer tolerate being emotionally abused and have my children go through the same cycle. I want to create something better more loving for us.

    I stated that if he wanted a chance to co parent with me that I wanted him to take ownership that by telling either myself or our children that their feelings were wrong or blaming them was emotional abuse and to get help to not harm our children like this.
    Otherwise I would parent alone.

    He has agreed ( words only at the moment) and admitted that he has done what I allowed and would still not be getting any help if I allowed him not to.

    He felt my vibe that I really do mean this.
    I feel unsure on if this is really standing up for myself Or me going back to my old controlling ways.
    It would feel good to have some feed back on others thoughts on this.
    Part of me wants to give him a chance to become a loving parent.
    Part of me wants to say ” No more chances”
    OMG I know the brain is not fixed and I have certainly changed, so this leopard has changed her spots or is almost fully transformed.

    So can he change his?
    What do you think?

  246.  #246Linda on July 6, 2012 at 5:45 am

    Girl leopards change.

    Boys leopards dont.

    I have lived (without the children) in this type of situation. I was too loving, too nice. I did not keep my boundries. Made allowances and decisions for the betterment of him and I got lost. I was totally Off my bridge. I was not happy, he was not giving me anything I needed or wanted. Was uninterested in my dreams or investing in an us. He treated my dog (closest thing to a child living with me) harshly. I did not let him abuse him… but I have a really great little dog. The man would not even come to bed stayed and slept in front of the TV…gave me so littleaffection and if there was any it was “friend” type affection. He did not communicate with me during the day. (even a little hi hows your day going)….

    I talked to him many times, gave him many chances, nothing changed. He is gone now. I dont miss him at all.

    THe bottom line is for me. I am now FREE of this and him. I was not getting anything I wanted or needed. Only a little companionship once in a while.

    Look hard and long at you and your needs and make them FIRST! Walk and hold yourself first. PLEASE



  247.  #247Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 5:46 am

    Today is day 5 and I miss him. I haven’t heard from him and I’m leaning waaaay back, won’t even think about it. But anyways, why are these feelings stronger in the morning, whenever I wake up? I can’t even sleep good lately.

  248.  #248Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 5:47 am

    Starla, I am 22.

  249.  #249Starla on July 6, 2012 at 5:49 am

    Morning ladies:)
    I had a twisted dream featuring a different ex (lol, my brain), but I woke up in a great mood anyway.

    Lovin life.

    Gonna go to the gym. I discovered I can do a lot of push ups last night! My trainer always has me do them at the end of our sessions when I’m totally exhausted. But I tried doing them last night (in a lacy nightie, haha) out of curiosity, and I can totally do them! I am getting really strong.


  250.  #250Linda on July 6, 2012 at 6:22 am

    Annie…. I missed the part that said you were married sorry, I am not a proponent of dissolving marriages lightly.

    Please make your boundries and keep them for your sake and the kids.

    My situation was like what Turtle Girl said. I was not married to him.

    I was married for 27 years. He is a good man. He was not abusive, mean. He was all into other things but me, mostly church! I told him over and over what I wanted and needed. I told him I was unhappy. I finally told him I was not in love with him. I realized that what I needed, he had never given me. I had hoped for years that he would change and he didnt. Sadly, I left.

    I have just not seen a boy lepards change

    IF you can live with it then its ok.


  251.  #251Calypso on July 6, 2012 at 6:48 am

    Happy Friday, Sirens!

    I’m hoping Duke will ask me out this weekend . . . I know I have to lean back and wait for him to step up and do it this time, but it’s soooo hard! I know if I hinted that I wanted to do something with him this weekend, he would jump at it, but that isn’t what I’m going to do . . . I’m going to be a good siren and wait him out . . . I have plenty to do on my own all weekend if he doesn’t ask me out, but I really want to see him again soon – I want to know if there really is a connection between us . . . he goes slow, I can tell. Slow is good . . . lol – I’m just not used to it.

    He texted me last night and again this morning. He is keeping contact, he just isn’t taking that leap to actually make plans with me. His POF profile says he is shy . . . I’m not shy . . . LOL

    LEAN BACK Calypso . . .

  252.  #252April Rose on July 6, 2012 at 7:08 am

    Will any of you ladies forgive April Rose for being away (from the blog) for so long.
    You fickle b*tches probably didn’t even notice!!!

    Love you all xxxoooxxxooo

  253.  #253Calypso on July 6, 2012 at 7:28 am

    I just got a call from my attorney’s office. I have to go down there at lunch and pick up some papers. I have filed a suit against my ex-husband for me to be able to stop paying him alimony. It’s complicated and I won’t go into it all here, but I pay him a lot of money every month and yet I’m the one that all 3 of our sons live with and I pay for all of their needs, not him!

    Anyway – He has of course filed a counter suit to have his alimony increased. I knew he would do that.

    My problem is . . . I can feel my inner boy puffing up and getting ready for battle. My first court hearing is July 16th. I’ve been doing really well just letting that issue sit in the background unattended, but now that I know for sure that he has hired an attorney and plans to figh tooth and nail . . . I know my inner boy warrior will make himself known . . .

    How do i balance that witht he tools I am trying to learn for nurturing my inner siren? How do I snarl and gnash my teeth in the face of a horrible man who wants to continue taking from me and my sons and then swith that off and be all soft and lean-back-girly with a man I’ve just met???

    Ugh . . . maybe it’s a good thing Duke does go slow – maybe I don’t need to be around him durint this? problem is, this court situation will drag out for months – we will fight to the blood end.

    I don’t want to fight, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to just keep giving either – not unless the judge makes me!

  254.  #254lk on July 6, 2012 at 7:31 am

    woosh i feel a big burning reading all that…. woosh !!!! wow….. ummmm………………………

    my boss just got mad at me for something really tiny while i think i’m doing a good job… i don’t believe in attack or defense… next time maybe i won’t make that error, but if I do, i forgive myself. i don’t really see it as an error. if it had been me who was the other party, i wouldn’t have perceived an error. i feel curious about how it’s a real error & that’s giving me a tummy ache because since i don’t understand the error, i substitute generic “Fatal Error” symptoms into my brainstomach…. heartmind, what do you think ? i want to leave & get away from these people. LOL good idea….. i really hxte making mistakes. it makes me feel worthless totally. like, what good is any of this if i’m not perfect ? LOL lk………. you’re an xdiot. that’s mean right there! see, i caught myself trying to attack myself… & thus send myself into defense… against myself…. it’s an auto-esteem disorder lol….. i caught myself in the car this morning saying over & over & over again, “i’m not an awkward human, i’m not an awkward human, i’m not an awkward human” … well…. i tell you what, that shxt made me feel real awkward LOL… : /

  255.  #255Daria on July 6, 2012 at 7:32 am

    Rebecca – hehe 🙂 Awww thanks …
    That’s not beating myself up… That’s me feeling different feelings (most of them in that post not good)

    Beating myself up is like: what’s wrong with me, why am I so stupid, I’ll never have … , etc

    Even those – NVs – I write out sometimes to process

    What I was doing in that post writing those feelings is called Riffing

    It’s a Rori technique of shifting energy by getting aware and loving the emotions and sensations in my body

  256.  #256Jilly on July 6, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Thanks Daria and Lily Medusa 🙂

    I ended up falling asleep right after posting lol…yes I felt so tired last night.

    I woke up still feeling happy and relieved that I did not go out last night.

    I did get him a little card and gift 🙂

    I feel good about it…more like giving back than “giving” since he pays for EVERYTHING.

  257.  #257lk on July 6, 2012 at 7:38 am

    my boss really really wanted me to Hear Him Out about this….. i wonder if he felt heard ? i didn’t Want to Hear Him lol…. sorry, bossman. my b. i didn’t mean to make you feel nervous about that small error. i DO understand that i could blow thousands of dollars on an error SIMILAR TO that one; HOWEVER, truly, that wasn’t really an Error………. sorry, dude. i feel annoyed to feel i’m surrounded by dummies too. sorry to give you that feeling…… but, btw, you get me like 1/2 price in my mind, so……. yeah, you’re lucky i show up. wow ! that’s such an attitude lk….. why are you so sassy-feeling? ok, yes, very angry. i hear you baby. really fxcking pxssed. wow…. that’s very… i hear your Man voice coming out….. let me cuddle you & fix your problems this weekend, ok ? who’s in charge? who’s doing this for me ? my man or my woman? i want them integrated. the woman can ride the lion. the woman can guide the force of the lion. ohh thank you : ) i like that visual… : )

  258.  #258Tereana on July 6, 2012 at 7:40 am

    Calypso – Ooh! That sounds aggravating to the max. But also kind of exciting. You get to go to court! And do battle! My inner lawyer is getting all exciting. It is super fun to kick *ss in court. I can only imagine that it is more fun when it is your ex-husband who is being a (excuse my French) douche.

    Here is my best advice (take if you want) – this is from lawyers when I had a court issue myself: know what the laws are, very specifically. Courts don’t care about emotions or “what’s right” in a social sense. They care about the law. If you can USE the law to support your emotions/situation, you are golden. And it looks like you have everything on your side. But don’t assume that means it’s a done deal. You need to know what the laws stipulate EXACTLY – quote them, in face. I don’t know if you have a lawyer. If you are representing yourself, that is awesome! It means you can kick *ass even more.

    Bonne chance! (good luck on the 16th : )

  259.  #259Tereana on July 6, 2012 at 7:41 am

    @ April Rose, I think you meant “b*tch” in a good way, right? (B.abe I.n T.otal C.ontrol of H.erself ; )

  260.  #260Hopeful on July 6, 2012 at 7:43 am

    I feel 10 feet tall today. Actually, I started feeling 10 feet tall last night. And it is staying with me. I love this feeling. It is truly strong on the inside and soft on the outside.

    I never said anything about going to AA meetings to my husband this week. I did find myself acting a little codependent on Tuesday and Wednesday. I just noticed it and didn’t beat myself up for it. Was trying to be supportive and helpful cause I know he misses drinking right now. Thanks God is work is slow this week so at least he does not have that stress.

    He did not want to go to the 4th of July party because 1) I made him look like an a$$hole and 2) because on a hot day he just wants to drink a piture of beer. So he decided not to go.

    But I went. And I had fun. I went down this road when he quit drinking for a year in 2009. I was worried about him and looking after him and gave up way too much of myself in the process.

    But not this time. I am looking out for me. He does not want my help anyway.

    When I was at the marriage counselor last night, I told him my whole story about the angry comment my husband made and how I told him I would not talk about it until we could have a conversation that was not angry or emotional. And the marriage counselor told me I did exactly the right things.

    By the way, this marriage counselor is awesome. I really went to the best guy in town. He has written books and trained tons of other marriage counselors. I am in good hands.

    I told him I did NOT want to be codependent this time that my husband quit drinking.

    He told me that step one was to STOP being his counselor.

    He told me NOT to even mention the meetings to him. Let him decide on his own and do his own research.

    He told me to not talk about the marriage counseling appt unless my husband asked about it.

    He told me to keep up firmly holding my ground about not being in any angry or blaming conversations. He said if you need to leave the restaurant or the room, do it. And I will.

    He said that I have to keep my husband just a little uncomfortable, and be willing to leave the marriage if I have to. That is the key.

    I also asked him about how sensitive I am and how my feelings get hurt easy. He said I needed to toughen up, and not let him get to me.

    WOW. Such great advice. I left his office feeling like I am on the right path. Even if things don’t work out at least I am on the path to becoming a much happier self-empowered person.

    PS – Does a lot of this sound like Rori’s Toxic Man program advice or what?

    Any way, I went home, and the hubby knew where I was. I could feel the anger and crabbiness below the surface, but he didn’t say anything really unkind.

    And he never asked a word about the marriage counseling appt. My hunch is that he fully expected me to go into convincer mode and explain to him why we should go.

    But I kept my mouth shut about the marriage counselor. I kept my heart open and smiled at him. I was also smiling because the counselor was so incredibly right. So thrilled to have him in my court.

    He said the only thing I should say about the meetings is at some point if he seems really unhappy/agitated, I could say, you seem really unhappy these days. Do you have any plan to do something about it? And then let him talk. If he doesn’t want to talk, let it go.

    I am so proud of myself. I feel like all these months of working on myself have really payed off. And I feel like I have so many people in my corner (including this blog and the sirens on this blog).

    So, off to vacation tomorrow. I am going to stay happy. And if I have to leave the hotel room or restaurant or pool because I don’t like the way I am being treated, I will just simply tell him I don’t want to be criticized or yelled at and leave.

    The counselor also said that now that he has quit drinking, now the real work can begin.

    So onto phase 2.

    Also, he explained to me statistics and info on why most marriage counselors stink. And he said even when he is training marriage counselors, many of them have jaw drop moments when he says what he says to the class.

    Just amazing.

    I am 10 feet tall. Strong on the inside. Soft on the outside. Oh, and I changed my hair again this week too. I like it.

  261.  #261lk on July 6, 2012 at 7:44 am

    dxmn. it super wasn’t an error…. i solved a problem we were having !! LOL….. perspective, perspective……… but…. he doesn’t see it that way & he doesn’t want to see it that way & it doesn’t matter to me whether he sees it that way or not. it’s better for our relationship that he feel he is in a position of authority over me, regardless of how i perceive “hierarchical” relationships.

  262.  #262Calypso on July 6, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Tereana – I have a lawyer – I borrowed $3000 from my uncle, which was something I have never done before (borrow money from falily or friends), but I felt it was 100% necessary.

    The case is by far not going to be open/shut. My Ex has been on Disability, which is why I had to pay Alimony to begin with – the government says he is not capable of earning a living . . . then, I got a notice that said his disability was being stopped because he failed to cooperate with Social security auditing him. This is because he is no longer disabled and has bnot been going to doctors or taking meds…

    BUT – now that I have filed this suit to stop paying Alimony – since he can go to work for himself . . . he has decided to fight to keep his Disability.

    There is a chance that I could lose and have to pay him more and for longer, but I am going to fight and fight and fight!

    I just don’t know if I can dot hat and start a loving relationship at the same time – now that I know about Rori and what she teaches – I don’t know if I can be two people at once and right now, I need my inner boy warrior to keep me from backing down!

  263.  #263lk on July 6, 2012 at 7:47 am

    HOPEFUL!! yayyyy : ))))) that sounds so love-ly : ))) awwww (((hopeful))) : ))))

  264.  #264April Rose on July 6, 2012 at 7:48 am


    You got it!!!

    I am still campaining for women to honour and enjoy and give status to their inner b*tches. Yeah!

  265.  #265April Rose on July 6, 2012 at 7:52 am

    Hopeful – WOW!

    I am feeling your inner strength and feeling inspired by you.

  266.  #266Tereana on July 6, 2012 at 7:52 am

    Apropos of not very much, I really liked this from a recent EMK email.

    At first, I thought it was going along all normal, like everything else I’ve ever heard and then this:

    But here’s one thing that you haven’t heard before:

    The one thing that you really SHOULD be looking for in a relationship – the thing that is the hallmark of any successful relationship is…

    A lack of anxiety.


    The man has some truth there. And he’s right. I HAVEN’T heard that before. But it just seems to ring some note in me that just feels so TRUE.

    We spend so much time here trying to “get” ourselves to feel less anxiety. And that’s great. And it totally doesn’t work to “blame” a guy for our feelings. BUT, on the other hand, if being with a guy is creating anxiety for you in any way – such as he’s not calling, he’s not doing things that make you feel special and loved, and therefore anxious – hey, that’s not his fault. And it’s not your fault for feeling anxious. It just means it’s not the right relationship!

    How freeing is that? I find it incredibly liberating! I feel happy!

    Just because I am anxious with a guy, it doesn’t mean that there is something “wrong” with me. It means that my warning bells are going off, and trying to give me signals.

    And this is putting my experience with Vman in a whole new light. Because once I read that, I realized that, even though he WAS doing a lot of great things for me/with me, I STILL felt anxious. And I can’t even say why I felt anxious exactly. But he just elicited that response. And in truth, I could never tell him to do anything differently, because I don’t know what that would be. All I know is that, I want a guy with whom I DON’T feel anxiety.

    And I thinks sometimes anxiety can be mistaken for “chemistry.” I definitely had a lot of chemistry with Vman. I think it went both ways. But I felt anxious. And I have no idea what he felt. But obviously, he felt something that wasn’t too great, either.

    And it’s not either of our faults. I had different expectations. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t already know what is/was true for me. It’s just not helpful to want something that isn’t the best for me.

    I would rather want something that IS the best for me. Because that’s what I want my partner to want for me, too.

    Okay, gotta go not be late for work. Have a good day, ladies!!!!

  267.  #267lk on July 6, 2012 at 7:53 am

    Jilly! i was thinking of you & your website this morning because i was marveling how i am barely “working out” & i’ve been drinking a whole milk latte with whipped cream every morning & yet somehow my body seems to look & feel more healthy, strong, slim every day! my gentle movements & gentle listening to my body & attending to my happiness is better for my body than “slaving away” or having a “punishment” mentality : )))

  268.  #268Hopeful on July 6, 2012 at 7:59 am

    lk and April Rose – Thanks for your comments.

    I feel inspired by me too. I cannot believe how great I feel. This feels awesome. And this all comes from the inside me, not from a man.

    That feels great. I am standing on my own feet and feel happy, because of me, and all the work I have done on myself and I am so proud of all the actions I have taken recently. I say unto myself: Hopeful, You Go Girl!

  269.  #269Rebecca on July 6, 2012 at 8:03 am


    I hear what you are saying but to be honest I don’t completely understand the riffing technique.

    Maybe I’m getting it wrong, to me riffing is just riffing out your feelings etc in an unedited format?

    Or is the Rori way a very specific process?

    I see some of your riffing and to me I can’t see what the actual process is, I thought it was more life a stream of consciousness. Tell me if I’ve got this wrong?

  270.  #270lk on July 6, 2012 at 8:16 am

    april rose, i missed you : ))

  271.  #271Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 8:32 am

    April Rose,

    Welcome back, Babe In Total Control of Herself! Of course you are forgiven, because there is nothing to forgive! But I missed ya!

  272.  #272Starla on July 6, 2012 at 9:02 am

    I went through a few weeks of “not wanting” to go to the gym frequently, and now I definitely, definitely want to go. as much as possible. Actually, I went this morning and I left my exercise top on so I could go back again as soon as the work day is over.

    For me, things that feel like punishment at first become habit and then become joys.

    Because my diet is tied to a chronic health condition I face, it’s been a couple of years since I felt like eating ‘healthy’ was punishment. But at first, it was very very hard to omit food from my diet.

    The beautiful thing about getting disciplined about what you eat is that your body will start to crave only the healthy stuff, and when you wanna be ‘bad,’ you don’t even have to think twice about it. You can just go for it.

  273.  #273Starla on July 6, 2012 at 9:09 am

    the discipline only works if you can stick to it, though. otherwise you experience burn out and it backfires. like saying “i’m going to start going to the gym! i’ll go an hour every day!” and then two days later, you’ve stopped going, cuz you took on too much. 5 minutes a day is better than nothing a day, which is what happens when you make unrealistic goals. Like, replace 1 soda a day with water. Realistic goal, vs. “give up my 5 sodas a day cold turkey”

    Hmmm I feel really passionate and energized talking about this stuff.

    And I think for some people, discipline feels really good, and can be a drug in itself. And some people even take it to the extreme and become anorexic, because of the control high they get (I think… I don’t know because I’ve never been anorexic)

  274.  #274Jilly on July 6, 2012 at 9:18 am

    lk…I LOVE hearing that!!! yes this is where the magic happens..

    my gentle movements & gentle listening to my body & attending to my happiness is better for my body than “slaving away” or having a “punishment” mentality : )))

    I feel excited…like one more woman is living FREE…wahoo!!!!

  275.  #275Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 9:24 am

    How Women Lead from the Feminine
    By: Lisa Lockwood
    Feminine energy is the strongest vibration on the planet. Its strength is birthed from Mother Earth, the most glorious gift from our Universal creator.
    I’m often asked, “How can I (as a woman) exert more influence and leadership from the sacred space of the feminine?”
    What they’re really asking is, “How can a woman exhibit a male energy characteristic through the feminine without the perception of stepping into my male energy?”
    I love this question because the feminine is all about dancing the dance from the magnificent sacred space of the feminine.
    Here are a few examples of how this is done:

    Let’s say a woman who embraces her femininity, a woman who is known as a loving, caring, altruistic, compassionate feeler decides that she needs to crack the whip in a situation where she believes her feminine powers have not been effective ie;
    Scenario 1
    * Asking for a raise or a promotion after having been looked over.
    Woman: Thank you for taking my meeting today. It’s come to my attention that I did not get the raise/promotion. As a person who sets high standards it’s important for me to understand your perspective on how I measure in this particular field.
    Employer: Thanks for seeing me today and inquiring. You have been doing a great job with us and we’ve also had some incredible members of the staff really step up in ways that shined a light on them. In saying that, that is why we felt we made the right choice going with ‘Robert’ for the position.
    Woman: I agree that Robert has been an asset to the division and here’s why (examples). Also I’m not sure you’ve had an opportunity to see that I’ve implemented and structured a business model that does x, y and z. My goal with this company is to give it all of my talent and contribute in ways that will catapult it to astronomical levels.
    Can you appreciate that?
    Employer: We definitely see your potential and as I said before we had quite a few stellar candidates this time around.
    Woman: To ensure you realize that I’m a team player and have the companies best interests at heart, I’d like you to consider a re-evaluation in 90 days. I want to give you an opportunity to see my light shine in ways that may have been overlooked this round.
    Employer: I admire your dedication and would be happy to entertain that.
    Scenario 2
    Getting Your Man to Stop an Unappealing behavior
    (Never forget-Never correct or direct male energy)
    Let’s use nail biting as the example
    Scenario 1 He is unconscious of the behavior
    Woman: Immediately after witnessing it, grab his hand, mockingly put his finger to your mouth and feign like your going to bite it and make a fun comment like;
    Woman: “Hey, you didn’t save any for me!” He’ll react either playfully or with a hint of shame. Most of the time behaviors such as these are unconscious. Depending on how he responds here’s how it can play out.
    Man: ” Oh I’m sorry I didn’t know you wanted some (laughs).”
    Woman: “Actually I was just being playful.” (Then share a story on how you had a disgusting habit and broke it. You can even make it up. This will allow him to see how that habit really appears in the public eye and from you when you draw a similar comparison.)

    Woman: “Did you know that so and so used to do the same thing?” (Do your research and find someone he admires in the public eye and tell a story about how that individual broke a similar habit because he realized how it had the potential of making him look weak in societal views).
    Scenario 2: He is aware of the behaviour:
    Man: “Oh I’m sorry was I biting my nails? I know it’s gross I’ve been trying to kick that habit for years.”
    Woman: Agree. “I know exactly what you mean. When it’s unconscious it extremely difficult to catch it.
    Man: “I tried the rubber band on the wrist thing for a while but that didn’t work.”
    Man: “Not much else. I’m sure there’s a pattern but just haven’t pinpointed it yet.”
    Woman: “I would love to support you with that but would never want to impose anything on you. Is there anything you’d like me to do to help you with that?”
    Man: “Sure…how about kissing me when you catch me?” (Men are all about being rewarded for achievement but you must be careful how you do this. It’s like training animals, if he knows he’ll get a kiss for biting his nails you haven’t solved anything.)
    Woman: “How about I kiss you when you’re not biting your nails and tell you that’s why I kissed you?”
    Man: “Count me in!”

    In life, like bees, the feminine can lead through using her honey. It’s all simply a matter of reframing scenarios coupled with the use of the most obscure indirect leadership tools to accomplish any and everything!
    Cheers to The Feminine!
    Woman: “What else have you tried?”

  276.  #276April Rose on July 6, 2012 at 9:33 am

    I missed you too, lk.
    And I missed all you lovely fab women here who, like me, want true romance with yourself and with a fabulous man.

  277.  #277April Rose on July 6, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Hi. Missed you too.
    You are still invited to come and play on the stage at my theatre….

  278.  #278siren song on July 6, 2012 at 9:43 am

    it’s guy who love me’s birthday. i feel tempted to send him a message. but…leaning back…

    day 22!

  279.  #279Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 9:43 am

    April Rose,

    Ok, where can I find your stage?

  280.  #280Brandylion on July 6, 2012 at 9:44 am

    On Wednesday, the thought struck me that PriestCD isn’t going to call me to tell me about his Europe trip (he got back Tuesday) or to find out how my research project is going. We may have been romantically involved and physically intimate for almost nine months, but WE AREN’T THAT CLOSE. I felt sad about that realization, but then I felt a weight lift from my body when the expectation that he’d contact me disappeared.

    Yesterday afternoon I saw he was on Facebook at the same time I was, and when he was still on after a while, I sent a message saying hi, and he didn’t reply before logging off a number of minutes later. It felt bad. I’m trying to make up the story that he just didn’t see it, but the gremlins are pointing out how obnoxious those messages are about being seen when you’re on the site. Lesson re-learned: no leaning forward. If he’s not contacting me, it’s because he doesn’t want to (a la what Jasmine posted yesterday). I did not manage to rockstar that one, but I did rockstar some contact with guys on dating sites yesterday evening!

    And then last night I dreamed about him. I don’t remember what happened in the dream (other than I lost my ASU student ID card, and I think he was trying to help me find it or getting in the way…), but I do know I woke up from it feeling really, really distressed and anxious. I slept so poorly last night I didn’t have the energy to get up to run this morning. :-/

  281.  #281Smile on July 6, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Sirens/Daria, I feel intrigued to learn more about rifting…

    Can you direct me to any where I can read more?

  282.  #282siren song on July 6, 2012 at 9:45 am

    my mum’s going in for surgery in a few hours. i feel really nervous. she’s been sick for a long long time.

  283.  #283Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Siren Song,

    278 – Rori said that on a man’s birthday is the one time it is ok to lean forward. Of course it depends on the stage of your relationship, too.

  284.  #284Starla on July 6, 2012 at 9:57 am

    (((((((((((siren song’s mom)))))))))

  285.  #285Starla on July 6, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Brandylion, I blocked a few guys from showing up on my chat list. makes life easier for me:)

  286.  #286siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:09 am

    aw thanks starla.

    yeah, esteemed, i don’t know…we don’t really have a relationship anymore (i don’t want to be friends and he does).

    i just really feel lean forwardy for some reason. i rarely if ever feel that way.

    plus he hates his birthday. it makes him feel depressed.

  287.  #287siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:12 am

    i feel worried for my mum.

    and also sad that she doesn’t take decent care of herself. she’s a really heavy drinker and has kind of destroyed her body.

    (mum’s liver)

  288.  #288Smile on July 6, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Siren song, it’s strumming mans birthday today too. In the past I have totally leant forward. He liked this as he said no one had ever put any thought into presents before for him.

    Since we are rebuilding our relationship though this year it hasn’t felt right to. I’ve got him a card an leaned forward today to send him a birthday text.

    We haven’t made plans as he is going away with the boys for a long weekend camping and I’m on a hen do.

  289.  #289Smile on July 6, 2012 at 10:14 am

    (((Sirens songs mum)))

  290.  #290siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:15 am

    also, i am happier every day that i am not someone’s girlfriend anymore.

    i went to a festival last night and talked to a bunch of girls who were all single. i got them thinking about the ‘no girlfriend’ concept. one of them blinked really hard and said back to me: ‘yeah, i don’t want to be a girlfriend either! that’s BS!’

    i feel more and more ok with how things have turned out.

  291.  #291siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:18 am

    thanks smile

  292.  #292Daria on July 6, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Riffing is in the Power and Self Esteem section of articles on the blog – u can see the link on the right

    Click back to the earliest articles by date – Rori shows rigging there in a few forms

  293.  #293Daria on July 6, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Yay siren song for your no gf sharing !

    That feels so thrilling to read

  294.  #294siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:23 am

  295.  #295siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:26 am

    it’s kind of a scam, the girlfriend thing.

  296.  #296siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:29 am

    also, my dad agrees with my about CDing. i asked him about a month ago if i was ‘crazy’ to not be exclusive with guy who loves me and he said ‘that’s the way it used to work. you shouldn’t hitch your wagon to someone who isn’t crazy about you.’

    i felt kind of shocked that he agreed.

  297.  #297Starla on July 6, 2012 at 10:38 am

    I do still feel kind of guilty about not being a “girlfriend,” but I also feel guilty about eating meat, and that doesn’t stop me, lol.

    I’m not always consistent with it, though. I’ll be the girlfriend when it suits me. And I’ll revoke it when it doesn’t.

  298.  #298Smile on July 6, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Thanks Daria, lots of interesting stuff to read there

  299.  #299Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 10:53 am

    #245 & #246 – Yes men can change, BUT they will do only if they think they need to, or if they want to.

    More commonly though, they will change, as you change, IF he’s the man for you. It will be mostly unconscious, but it will be.



  300.  #300Starla on July 6, 2012 at 10:57 am

    I believe people change, because I DEFINITELY change. But that’s interesting to divide it by gender. You might have a point. However, one of my exes did change. He didn’t do it cuz I asked him to, though. He did it on his own, while we weren’t even dating (we dated twice).

    Hmmm my brain feels stimulated:)

  301.  #301Smile on July 6, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Circular dating…

    I have some confusion I need help understanding please…

    I get the reasons why you see lots of guys you are nor exclusive with but my confusion comes in when you are exclusive but not engaged…

    How do other sirens feel about circular dating when you are exclusive with a guy but not engaged yet?

    What are sirens experiences with this?

    What does Rori say about this?

  302.  #302siren song on July 6, 2012 at 10:59 am

    starla, i totally get being the GF when it feels good. in my case recently, he wanted a full-on wife without the marriage. it felt bad. and confusing.

  303.  #303Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:04 am

    lk – #267 – Full fat dairy is better for you in all ways. It’s a whole food for one, unadulterated, and it’s assimilated more easily by the body.


  304.  #304siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:05 am


    i started cding about half-way through my last relationship. my main guy at the time got super-angry, then asked me to move in and to plan on getting married, then eventually left. but he’s still around in some ways and says he still loves me, that he wants to be the father of my kids.

    CDing helped me not have a breakdown after the breakup. And him leaving was in the end a good thing: i don’t want to be someone’s girlfriend on demand with no plan for the future. it likely saved me pain in the long run. and it showed he just doesn’t have what i need right now.

  305.  #305Smile on July 6, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Dominique, I loved reading this, I totally feel like we are growing and healing together and that makes me feel all warm and glowing inside. Thankyou. I will be reading more from you

  306.  #306Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Tereana – #266 = Something to keep in mind too, anxiety can be a default position to go to if this is how a person has come to adapt to the world or certain situations. In other words it could be a sign that there is something to be healed.


  307.  #307Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Starla – Anorexia is definitely not a high of any kind. It’s a coping mechanism which can be about taking control in this way when life everywhere else feels totally out of one’s control.


  308.  #308Smile on July 6, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Siren song,

    Were you in love with your main guy at the time you started circular dating? Sorry if this feels like a personal question?

    I can see how it can get guys to step up or not put all your eggs in one basket as they say.

  309.  #309Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:13 am

    307 dominique, the resulting sense of control does not provide a high?

  310.  #310Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Smile – If this helps at all, K and I were exclusive for ten years with no thought of marriage let alone engagement. The commitment, loyalty, love were all there, and of this there was no question. I let the idea of marriage go a long time ago and even came to be more afraid of it than not.l I did get the ring four years ago as a birthday gift. And then out of nowhere, K proposes, and we got married this past weekend. So there are exceptions to every rule/guideline.

    Normally Rori would not endorse this kind of arrangement, but she knows me, and she knows us as a couple, and in her mind as well a mine and most everyone, we were married, just not legally.

    I don’t know if this helps you at all. Hope so.


  311.  #311lk on July 6, 2012 at 11:18 am

    dominique, i do feel that a big cup of fat is just what my body craves at the beginning of my day : ) i feel supported & strong for hours afterwards : ))

    i also notice that my pets “exercise” more like i do…. just stretching & cuddling myself & frequent bursts of “romping” throughout the day : )

    jungle cat isometrics : ))))) yayyyyy

  312.  #312Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:20 am

    No Starla, it feels stressful, oppressive, horrible, unsatisfying. The whole disorder feels terrible. It’s a tenacious, insidious, cancer like thing.


  313.  #313siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:21 am


    yeah, he was the love of my life (at least so far). but if doesn’t want to follow through with marriage and kids (after hinting about it for years and calling me his ‘spouse’ to other people) and he can let me go, then he wasn’t the guy for me.

    he said he felt it was like an ultimatum, but it really didn’t feel that way to me. i think it shocked the heck out of him and hurt him. but he wanted me all to himself on his terms. that’s not my idea of a real relationship.

  314.  #314Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Big hugs siren song to you and your mum…


  315.  #315Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:28 am

    i feel a bit misunderstood, dominique. most sources of a high are those awful things. but there’s a payoff, nonetheless. as you say, with anorexia, it’s a sense of control. i’m talking about the high one gets from control, not the obvious drawbacks that come from being a slave to it (as is the case with many other addictions, which is probably why treatment for anorexia and other addictions are fairly parallel on a lot of measures).

    I’m NOT saying anorexia gives you an awesome, worthwhile high. lol. Have you struggled with this yourself? It could explain the misinterpretation/stretching of my words on the topic.

  316.  #316siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:32 am

    thanks dominique

  317.  #317Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:34 am

    i don’t actually want to talk about anorexia.. it was just a thought about discipline and control in the extreme to temper my own enthusiasm for discipline (healthy forms)

  318.  #318Daria on July 6, 2012 at 11:34 am

    I choose to believe that by just doing what I want – lapsing sometimes on the things I ‘think’ I should do – like brush my hair

    And consistently asking myself what I want

    I strengthen my desires my trust in myself my magic AND get all that I want including amazing habits and


    I choose to drop coercive measures even for ‘the meantime’

    I know if I coerce myself I will be disrespecting spirit Daria’s intrinsic knowing intuition, Choice

    I trust that she will want more and more of what makes me happy and healthy


    This feels so scary

    Coercion is a powerful tool I’ve learned to use

    Now I have other tools that work to not only have what I think I want , but also to strengthen my spirit and self trust

    I want to trust this

    I feel terrified

    I get messages to the contrary, read accounts of people who say how happy they feel having coerced themselves

    I feel angry!

    I feel sad and hopeless

    I will not coerce myself

    I will trust myself no matter what it ‘looks’ like

    I will appreciate myself for trusting myself

    Later those parts of me and others that were coercing themselves or learning how to use coercion

    Will also learn better tools and coercion does strengthen ones masculine (does it – this sounds like a false belief)

    Anyways they will get and see and feel in tune that coercion is not the way to go

    Even if it did stuff down feelings to make it look pretty – to make one look thinner, or get a child to stop screaming in public

    It was a time when coercion seemed great and essential for that

    And then miracles unfolded and getting thin was no longer important or getting a child to be quiet

    Loving and expressing feminine energy w my body changed that paradigm

    Connected and respectful parenting changed the other, so the worry of traumatizing my shield ten with violence is Gone

    I like my perseverance which is not forced just chosen to trust mysef

    If I stop in the moment, dialogue w my inner goddess of what she wants, and do that… It feels fun and not coercive

    And if she doesn’t want to brush my hair. I don’t.

    I haven’t brushed my hair for days, and I’m honoring myself that way.

    I see here I can trust myself more.

    It’s ok to feel fear.

    Feel doubt that I’m doing it ‘wrong’ cux I’m doing it new.

    And I’m giving myself permission to see how this has brought me so much happiness And abundance And what I wanted – or —- and here’s the magic benefit – a shift in what I want.

    Along w peace of mind and a respect for myself a trust in divinity and the coolness of shocking people all the time by telling them I just do what I want… Period.

    Which feels fun to have ppl amazed at me

    And what about saying yeah but you won’t get such and such benefit that you get with coercion.

    Price to me u do.

    I’ve started noting proofs.

    I wana notice them more – thank u.

    I may not be giving some the importance they deserve

    Well my life is transforming so fast… I’ve grabbed this idea of self trust and not doing anything I don’t want to and I’m letting it ring through me all through the world.

    Someone said that the world and God provides, magically.

    And that if we all do just what we want and share just what we want ,

    It would all work out lovely and everyone would enjoy Abundance

    I believed it and I’m making it come true by living it. It’s working. I want to see even more clearly the workings of this

    What if it’s false and I destroy all man has built and people starve and suffer?

    It’s not false. We are part of nature, nature provides. We no longer need coercion, we learned choice and effort and now there’s better ways to use those.


    Whew this is deep for me whew I feel like I’m wringing mu spirit hehe 🙂

  319.  #319Smile on July 6, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Dominique, thank you for sharing that with me. Congratulations!

    I was with my ex boyfriend for 10 Years too but it was different as we got together at the age of 14 so we were far to young and I was still focusing on my education. When I finally was old enough in my eyes and realised this is what I now wanted we were more friends and so parted even though we lived together.
    I’ve only ever had 3 boyfriends and have never been single. I think I have missed out on circular dating. The next guy I got with immediately after lasted for two years. I hoped and hoped we would talk of a future together. But it never happened. By this time I had already met strumming man. We had an instant relationship and moved in together after 3 months we had planned our future together. (I’ve known him since I was 13 and had decrypt got back in touch so he wasn’t a stranger) when he withdrew a year later I came here to this blog. Now were rebuilding the relationship slowly but Im not feeling secure.

    I’m wondering if I should circular date? But I would not be over strumming man as I feel it’s moving forward all the time now I’m working roris tools and concentrating on me.

    I don’t want to look for another relationship but I don’t want to rely on that he will step up?

    Sorry for long reply but I would value your opinion

  320.  #320Daria on July 6, 2012 at 11:39 am

    I’m getting what I wAnt ! Yay great!

    I’m getting what I want by abusing/denying/abandoning myself


    When I see stories like this, like ladies saying but I chased my man and I got him

    I feel paralyzed. I know that likely the problems will show up later and it will all fall apart desastroisly

    So no ‘compromise, no lie, every single step is healthy and ringing

    I feel a sign of relief

    I’ve always known that, as a small child, no NEED for horrible compromises, like who would u keep, ur mom or dad

    Those are all false constructs, that the world doesn’t care is a false construct

    And the truth is I will Never have to compromise or be unsupported by the goddess

    I want to heal more about this

    Thank u

  321.  #321Smile on July 6, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Siren song, I think strumming man would be upset if I started to date others. How did you feel about looking for a new relationship while you were still invested in your main guy? I think I would feel like I wasnt taking time to get to a place where I could move on? We haven’t broken up so would this be unfair in any potential new relationship?

  322.  #322Daria on July 6, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Dreams don’t have to be ‘practical’ they just need to be energized.

    Illness is heal able.

    Death is a choice.

    I really am huger than a star, than a black hole, than a galaxy.

    I believe those I Feel em 🙂

    I can get people out of prison – I want this. I intend to believe this

  323.  #323Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Everyone’s different. Some people feel peace in discipline. Others are so afraid of their own imperfections and potential for failure that they don’t do anything with their lives, when they’d really like to. And they rationalize it brilliantly.

    Some people are comfortable with just floating through life. I think they deserve to do this if that is what they truly want.

    Everyone’s different, and I intend to honor everyone for their differences of opinions on discipline and how they choose to live their lives.

  324.  #324Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I feel sorry for anyone who freaks out at others who are different than them. It indicates a lack of peace with themselves. But I won’t be shamed for being big, focused, successful, and learning to enjoy every second of it.

  325.  #325siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:47 am


    i wasn’t necessarily looking for a new man. i just couldn’t focus my whole life on him when he didn’t want to marry me. he literally said ‘i want to eat dinner every day with you and sleep with you every night and live in my house for the rest of my life. i want to spend every weekend together.’

    to me he wanted marriage. but he didn’t give me a ring or a date. it felt weird.

    i’ve had a friend get married in the past couple of months after cding for a year or so. i know it works when the man is the right man.

  326.  #326Daria on July 6, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Smile – do you have Roris book? She talks about why to circular date, how it affects a man, and the attitude to have about it…

    It has all the basics …Essential stuff for practicing her tools here

    If u do, then I can maybe remind u that a man gettin mad about circular dating is Great! It means he may step up

    And that your presence on a date with a man is a blessing, and way more than fair

    And that circular dating keeps you sane so u can learn to be a great partner and relate to men …

    It also keeps u from pressuring a new man or jumping into something unhealthy

  327.  #327siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:49 am


    rori’s program ‘targetting mr right’ explains all of this stuff. men should be upset if they care. but they will also have to step up or step away.

  328.  #328siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:52 am

    i felt totally awful about CDing at first. now i know it was the right thing to do.

  329.  #329Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:53 am

    (((((((((my goals))))))))))
    ((((((((my dreams)))))))))))
    (((((((((my roadmap to achieve them)))))))))))

    i point to something, and the universe says “okay.”
    the universe in turn points to something, and I say okay!”

    And so it goes. A feedback loop of purposeful action and openness to the universe. It keeps the loop moving.

  330.  #330lk on July 6, 2012 at 11:54 am

    dominique, thanks for the comment about anxiety : ) i don’t want to make my partner responsible for my anxiety. it has been my pattern for life, that i have committed to & dedicated many actions & thought patterns to & i’m really enjoying deconstructing it. it’s true that one person’s anxiety can tear apart a relationship, but i refuse to blame myself for this or to beat myself up for it & i will continue to enjoy healing my heart… : )

    i actively RELY on anxiety…

    Rori, i enjoyed reading your comment about how “deciding” when to attack or when to defend is “bad math” kind of : )) ……… like, if you don’t want to attack, then never attack because you don’t believe in attack. if you don’t believe in attack, what would you be defending against? “it’s all love….. : ) help yourself !”

  331.  #331Starla on July 6, 2012 at 11:59 am

    i don’t like this word ‘attack’ anymore.

    one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

    one person’s “attack” is another person’s straight forward talking. It depends on how sensitive the audience is. I could say the same thing to 10 different people, and not be taken as an attacker by some of them, and put others in tears.

    semantics sucks.

    interestingly, my semantics project in college was a public opinion survey on the definition of terrorism. The results were that everyone interprets things differently.

  332.  #332Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Starla – maybe this is semantics, and I feel badly you feel misunderstood. the thing with anorexia, the control one has with the food and supposedly one’s body is really the person being wildly out of control.

    there is a better than feeling associated with it though, so maybe this is the high you are referring to?

    yes I suffered with this disorder for a great many years, and even if one appearance seems normal, it doesn’t mean the disorder isn’t still hard at it.

    my weight was very low three times, each time less severe the older I was. I really only “got over” the head trippy stuff maybe five years ago? it was a slow, arduous process like any healing, and much of it can be hidden from others.

    I credit this particular healing largely to K even though he never has said a word about it.


  333.  #333Starla on July 6, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    i feel a little frustrated at closed mindedness right now. Everyone is different.

  334.  #334Smile on July 6, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Daria/ siren song thank you.

    Yes, I do have roris book. I know this is what I should be doing but I’ve held back and I’m trying to help myself understand why I’m not. I don’t feel comfortable with it yet. I will read the book again and take the time to process and get myself to a point where I feel ready and comfortable.

  335.  #335Starla on July 6, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “yes I suffered with this disorder for a great many years, and even if one appearance seems normal, it doesn’t mean the disorder isn’t still hard at it.”

    My best friend was a meth addict. Same deal, basically.

    I’m so glad you are healthy now:) And my best friend too.

  336.  #336Smile on July 6, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Daria re 320

    Isn’t this blog all about having the relationship we WANT!

    I think wanting something is okay if your not attached to an outcome? Getting what you are aiming for is surely a good thing? I know what I want to get out of a relationship and it would make me happy if I got what I wanted by focusing on myself…

  337.  #337Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Oops, saw your post Starla after having hit send. Ah well. It is a common yet closeted illness, so maybe this will help someone to realize that there is healing from this too, this which has a less than 5% cure rate. And I don’t mean just the weight.


  338.  #338Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Starla – 🙂


  339.  #339Smile on July 6, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    I totally get that circular dating would help to not put pressure on a man.

    I think I’ve been achieving this by thinking about myself and filling my life up. Maybe I’ll just continue to work on me and anything I get from him is a bonus. I don’t want to get anything from pressure, this wouldn’t feel honest and loving.

  340.  #340Daria on July 6, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Smile – re 320


    but i know from experience – and because one can “see” issues in the dynamics if the feminine/masculine balance is off

    that the relationship that someone wants, if its come to in a coercive, unbalanced way

    will turn toxic!

    and it feels scary and sad

    so if someone comes and says!

    **** omg Daria how great, guess what i called this guy and asked him out and we get along so well and we have amazing sex and

    then he pulled away and i was sooooo sad

    but then i invited him to a concert and we’re back on and together…

    im soooooo THRILLED!!! ****

    im like :/

    cuz i know and can see how its gonna fall apart and their happiness is short lived

    the underlying imalances are not addressed

    and same goes for other goals achieved through unbalanced/ coercive means

    like getting thin or getting a child to be quiet by being controlling

    the inbalance WILLL rebalance itself…

    the issues Will come up to be dealt with, often way stronger than if they were not stuffed / controlled in the first place

  341.  #341Rebecca on July 6, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Wow, so many strong opposing opinions today! Rock on!

    Who is right? Who knows? A long time ago people laughed and thought it was madness when one person said the world wasn’t flat. Who knew who was right and who was wrong?

    I’ll try and keep an open mind, but lol, I am human so that’s nigh nearly impossible for me not to make a judgement…

    Who knows the answer? Who knows…

  342.  #342Starla on July 6, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    No worries, dominque

  343.  #343lilybelly on July 6, 2012 at 12:14 pm


    Smile, this is good; the focusing on you. It is healthy and wonderful and healing as well. One thing I feel moved to say is that while you don’t feel comfortable CDing, as in dating other men just yet, remember that CDing can take on many different appearances and what is important, at least in my opinion, is that you CD every man you come in contact with. Whether is be the baker, the butcher or the candlestick maker.

    The thing about CDing; it isn’t a tool that is meant to “get a new boyfriend” although it certainly can lead you to whatever it is you desire, relationship wise (I am a fan of whatever it is that YOU want and do not necessarily think that marriage is the be all/end all…for ME, everyone’s definition is their own and personal), but is a tool to heal your inner hurts, have you practicing interacting with men by using FM’s, stating boundaries (wants/don’t wants) and practice saying YOUR truth..how you feel in the moment, at any given moment.

    Just my two cents.

  344.  #344lk on July 6, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    i guess i’m really not thinking about “distinguishing” an attack from anything else….. just imagining the feeling that it’s impossible to “attack” anything…….. & so nothing could possibly be an “attack” or even trigger my defenses : )

  345.  #345Starla on July 6, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    i like your brain

  346.  #346Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Siren Song,

    I don’t think I know your story, but why is it you don’t talk to your ex/boyfriend?

  347.  #347Daria on July 6, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    im feeling exhausted all of a sudden

    i feel weird like… actively avoiding reading certain posts
    even though i feel drawn into htem with this hot energy

    and i feel sleepy and queezy cuz i think i got something like food poisoning again today

    i feel really angry inside myself

    i feel like im being stepped on or pressed down and silenced

    i just want to get really clear with myself about my no ‘coercion’ no ‘controlling’ no ‘discipline’ stance

    cuz having a stance is masculine

    so im ‘disciplined’ about not using ‘discipline’


    but im using awareness


    and now im confused

    and also i feel scared and sad – i want EVERYONE to get on board with not coercing their children so that my children dont have to deal with any more traumatized mentally and emotionally unhealthy people that can be dangerous to them

    i feel pist!
    this feels so like hangy head sad

    theres billions of people otu there, and so many of us carry these abuse traumas and unconsciously pass them to our kids


    thats ok actually they will be ok

    but dammit

    i dont want to be argued with

    i want clarity so i can grow on this point

    my beautiful non coerciveness

    i feel angry that others are like attacking me to defend their coerciveness

    and a lot of times i dont know what to say

    i notice myself judging them as not knowing any better

    and feeling uncomfortable to say something and then im judging myself for that

    so what if they want to abuse themselves to get what they want

    and they would get what they wanted and more without the abuse

    i will sit by and feel sad for them and i will be ok

    i will NOT ‘help’ them without being asked, that would be like taking the judgemetn as true

    i will just keep on processing and doing me and talking me and everything will shift to whwat i want and more lovingly like it always does

    and boy i dfeel sad, nmad and dead right now

    and i love my sad, mad and dead feelings

    the dead is a numbing of fear

    i love my dead feeling and my fear

  348.  #348Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Why are we talking about anorexia? I’m not getting it. There’s a lot of posts!!

  349.  #349Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Lilybelly may I just add that when you speak up for yourself, speak your truth the feeling that creates is priceless. At least that is what I have found.

  350.  #350Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    I’m sooooo lost in this convo

  351.  #351Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    RE 325 siren song that sounds like commitment to me. It might not be dressed in the clothes you want it in but it sure sounds like commitment.

  352.  #352Tressa Armstead on July 6, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    There are definitely aspects of all three of these types of men in my main character’s relationship. Hopefully seeing it written in black and white helps other women relate to Susan and nudges them to get out of the relationship!

  353.  #353lilybelly on July 6, 2012 at 1:04 pm


    Absolutely, FW. I agree wholeheartedly with your thought on this.

    And, at first, it’s scary. Particularily when we haven’t spoken “our truth” in a viable way or ever at all before. I would also add the vulnerability piece of it all as super important. That has been my biggest work over the last year and a half. Speaking my truth and allowing the vulnerability to show.

    I believe I am getting better at it.

  354.  #354Smile on July 6, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Thank you lilybelly, this is insightful.

    Yes I have been practising boundaries as in I want/don’t want and feeling messages whilst totally leaning back and getting on with my life.

    I feel circular dating is my next step

    I appreciate your two cents

  355.  #355Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    siren song about the birthday my thinking is after he recently looked out for your mom if your mindset and vibe is about giving back, I certainly would not have a problem sending an electronic Happy Birthday to him. It depends on how you feel. If there is a sense of obligation, then no. But if there is gratitude then I would.

  356.  #356Linda on July 6, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    I feel I am on the edge. My toes are on the edge of a ledge. I cant see the bottom. I keep chasing my tail and in my mind and I keep ending back in the same place.

    If I were to ever find a man…my kids would never except him most likely. That makes me sick inside.

    I cant build my life around them.. they are grown ups and have their own lifes. I need my own.

    The last man was bad for me and I feel toxic now too sometimes.

    I feel I need a new start. My little house feels like a house of pain sometimes.

    I have tried so hard to change my life. Find passion, be open to a new partner and I am failing.

    Yes a goal of mine to find a great relationship. Yes I dont want to be alone.

    I feel sad that I an not desired or “special” to a man.

    I really am a great woman. I honestly feel that way about me.

    I feel stuck. I feel nothing changing. I feel stuck
    I feel angry at this situation. I am so mad. I want this to change. I dont know what to do to make this change. It cant stay this way. I will go mad! The thing I need the most is not even within my control. I cant make the thing I need the most in my life happen.

    I AM NOT OK WITH BEING ALONE THE REST OF MY LIFE. Something says… oh just relax it will be ok. It doesnt FEEL OK. It is not OK with me.

    I am so hungry. My stomach is growling.. if feels empty. I want to fill it, just like I want my life full of what I need.

    Obviously, I am not feeling strong. The week ends are sooo hard for me in the house with little furniture. It echos. sigh


  357.  #357Mel on July 6, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    I’ve missed you lovely sirens!

  358.  #358Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Siren Song,

    Say happy birthday to him. It will be a sign of maturity.

  359.  #359Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Hello Mel,

    I’m pretty much new here but nice meeting ya lol

  360.  #360Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Siren Song,

    286 – Yeah, in that case, then I wouldn’t wish him happy birthday.

  361.  #361Daria on July 6, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    ok so i listend to my godson’s mom message on my phone and i feel all tingly all the way up with fear

    tingly tingly tingly

    i feel frustrated and ashamed to feel this way

    i ant to feel happy calm and strong

    and feeling scared i judge it as not strong

    and i feel sad now

    i feel embarassed to feel so terrified of her

    and sad

    i still dont want to talk to her

    i dont want to feel this way

    when ‘im stronger’ i will

    thats a judgement of me as not being strong

    i dont want to do that

    mmm i am feeling upset

    i feel scared of her and i dont want to feel that way

    i feel ashamed of it and also angry

    and want to blame her

    and i want to take responsibilitiy for my shame and heal it

    im still feeling tingly and pouty

  362.  #362Daria on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    i feel so terrified of her!

    and anxious now

    i feel compelled /have an image to call her, with my masculine voice, make a joke, ask about her, act like its all cool – cuz it is

    and totally not address that im feeling terrified and tingly under that

    and i dont want to do that

    i dont know what to do

    i feel curious to learn! 🙂 yay im gonna learn it now!

  363.  #363Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 pm


    301 – “How do other sirens feel about circular dating when you are exclusive with a guy but not engaged yet?”

    I don’t mean to sound facetious, but I think as a whole, CDing is designed to keep us from getting in that situation.

    In my case, I was informally exclusive with R in 2009 as I first started to work thru Rori’s programs. The way I chose to handle it was to write him a note that I was going to date and date until I had a ring on my finger. That way, since it was a switch, I was being up front with him, and he could do what he wanted with it.

  364.  #364Smile on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Exclusive- doesn’t this mean your committing to not dating anyone else? I guess this is why Rori calls exclusivity without commitment a trap?

  365.  #365Mel on July 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Welcome Jasmine!

  366.  #366Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    You know Daria your comments are helping me get some clarity around discipline. This morning I felt some internal tightening just looking at the word. I flip flop constantly with my kids around it because my automatic response is what I experienced as a child. But everytime I go there with my kids I feel deep inside me that I am teaching them the wrong lesson. I have for years differed with people around me about the subject as people in my culture seem to get all energized around using only corporal punishment as a means of discipline. I have said for years that there must be another way to lovingly teach the kids the lessons they need to learn. But I do get worn down with the talking and wonder when they will ever learn.

    Last week my daughter told me no about something I wanted her to do. I was so angry I publicly yelled at her because I felt publicly embarassed. I took her phone and ipad and grounded her for days. I want her to learn to speak up for herself but at the same time its like she shouldn’t when it comes to me. I realized it was my wounded ego. I spoke to her about disrespecting people because I believed she disrespected the people she was involved with and had them waste time and energy when she could have initially spoken up. In speaking to her I realized I feel fear around her disrespecting people in the work environment and jeopardizing her career. I am also concerned about how she might treat men in the future and end in suffering heartbreaks because of disrespect.

    Days later I told her that I was a bit disappointed that she did not apologize for disrespecting me. She took another 3 days before she did and said she apolgize for disrespecting me and for challenging my authority. I was really surprised at the last part but felt comforted in the fact that if she keeps this awareness people making decisions about her life in school and work will find no reason to jeopardize her in any way. It is really a delicate thing to balance and get everyone’s needs met. Maybe it is the masculine energy around it why I have hated to discipline and I tend to break away from the norm myself.

    Looking back I realize that I was projecting my issues on her but my aim is to have her succeed in life.

  367.  #367Daria on July 6, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    i know my masculine voice, if triggered, is ready to yell at her too

    like if she gets rude masculine voice is ready to counter etc

    its been awhile since i felt comfortable to be in my feminine around her

    have i ever?

    i want to feel comfortable being in my femiine anywhere

    AND i want to have a wonderful frienship

    and relationship with my Godkids

    if my godchildren were’nt around i would aprobably beat her asss!!!!

    when she threatened me


    realizing this now


    or maybe nto

    i woulda just walked away but i wouldnt be talking to her

    or id be yelling at her

    i dono!

    i feel overhwhelmed

    still feeling sad

  368.  #368Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Smile exclusivity includes dating, sex etc. Things you can do with a man. There is no exclusivity unless the man specifically asks for it and you negotiate the terms of your exclusivity, then agree to it.

  369.  #369Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Smile – Another thing I wanted to add is that marriage was never my goal, and I do not see it as a be all end all in the least. It wasn’t even a natural extension of our relationship. If you’re interested, I wrote about it this week. It was posted by FW on the last thread, but you may have missed. Click on my name, and it will take you there.


  370.  #370Mel on July 6, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Hi Smile,

    Here’s my perspective on it (and it may be a little different than other sirens, but that’s okay)….

    I am exclusive with my bf. That is, I am not going out on actual dates with men. I no longer have a dating profile up, etc.


    I go for lunch/coffee with male friends, I sometimes flirt with the cute barista, I smile warmly when men complement me, I giggle when the butcher gives me a better cut of meat, or the baker gives me “free samples.”

    And I will continue to do such things, because they are good and healthy, even after I move in with my sweetie at the end of the month.

  371.  #371Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 1:41 pm


    355 – If I were a single Mom, I would not allow my children to dictate whether or not I had a relationship. If they don’t accept a man, that is their issue, not yours. Hopefully in time, with maturity, they will get it that Mom deserves some happiness too.

    When my Dad passed away, I immediately encouraged my step mother to meet another man. She was and is my friend. She never did remarry, but I still encourage her to at least get out so a good man can find her. That is because I was an adult, so I saw her as a person.

    I think sometime the kids will have a lifechanging moment where they discover they are in favor of you having a new partner.

  372.  #372Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    My prayers are with your mom siren song. What’s wrong? If I may ask.

  373.  #373Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Smile – #363 – Exclusivity can very easily equate with commitment, and this doesn’t necessarily mean engaged. It means whatever commitment means to you.


  374.  #374Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 1:46 pm


    Further, I have said virtually the same thing at times that it feels like it is something with which I am out of control to have a relationship. I think sometimes it just has to be a period of pain and loneliness, but if we are faithful to keep working Rori’s tools and writing on the blog, little by little, things happen and our man who was meant for us comes into focus.

  375.  #375Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Feminiewoman – Men may not specifically ask aloud in words for exclusivity. Sometimes it just is. It’s understood, and there is great clarity in this understanding. That’s how it was with us.


  376.  #376siren song on July 6, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    FW, but it was not what i wanted. I don’t want to be his girlfriend. I did that for 11 before him.

  377.  #377Daria on July 6, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Feminine Woman – wow that sounds like so much like my friend whose house i was at and her 13 year old daughter

    she’s frequently upset that in her perspective, her daughter is disrespecting her

    from my perspective it looks like she’s disrespecting the daughter’s feelings or neglecting her… and the daughter speaks up about it (sometimes also disrespectfully)

    i feel stuck and wordless and havent got the courage to say anything to her yet, but in a way my saying nothing or not agreeing with her when she complains about her daughter…

    and always treating her daughter with respect, kindness and encouragment

    i am pretty sure she ‘gets” some of my influence.

    I felt so baffled about hwo i would raise my children (traditionally corporal punishment for me too… )

    until i read the sandra Dodd unschooilng and respectful parenting website

    i had never heard of anythign like it and have been searching for something like this ever since i thought id be having kids 🙂

    it feels incredible that it works! and though before learning Rori’s non coercive, not invasive, respectful non violent communication stuff…

    i wouldve totally dismissed it : yeah right, those people are probably all ‘messed up’ is what i woulda thought. my parents beat and pushed me and thats why im smart and finished college. is what i wouldve thought

    I really really recommend sandra dodd’s presentation of the ideas of respectful parenting (its liek respectful relationships)

    they don’t yet have the rori concepts of feminine energy and masculine energy involved there… but that would be a huge benefit to this style of parenting…

    and i LOVE reading questions by frustrated parents (im part of an unschooling list) and the surprsing advice from the practiced unschoolers – it feels exciting that theres so many things i can learn that i didnt think of myself

    this is an article on parenting peacefully:


  378.  #378siren song on July 6, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    11 years, i mean.

    And it felt weird. It wasn’t right for me.

  379.  #379Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 1:53 pm


    350 – “I’m sooooo lost in this convo”

    LOL, welcome to our world! I used to feel frustrated, but now I feel delighted at the vast diversity in this blog, and how there can be multiple conversations going on with people all across the world, all at the same time!

    I just flow with it and enjoy what I can, and I have long since given up on following all of it. It would be a full time job, LOL! I’d take that, if only it paid! 😆

  380.  #380siren song on July 6, 2012 at 1:56 pm


    Thanks. She has a bad liver and is in rough shape. They are removing a hernia that burst today, which is tricky because of her underlying issues.

  381.  #381Daria on July 6, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    “Ren Allen wrote:

    Something that helped me many years ago, was from another Mom. She said that a child’s wails, or screaming was her “cue” to turn on her very best Mom skills. There are many ways to re-train your responses in that area, but that helped me.
    When my child starts screaming at me, it’s my cue. That’s the little “ok, I need my calmest, kindest, best responses now” start-up. It helps me detach emotionally and have the ability to respond calmly. I feel more like an observer almost, and the screams or words just flow over me rather than causing an emotional response of anger.

    “Let the beauty of what you love be what you do.” ~Rumi

    wow ! ive been practicing coaching men im not involved with and THIS is a great TOOL!!!!

    when your woman starts screaming at you, that is your clue that you need yoru best “man skills” “strength and centerdness”

  382.  #382Daria on July 6, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    How to Raise a Respected Child

    Sandra Dodd
    Holly says the ice cream we have in the freezer is too sweet. She had chocolate milk last night and said there was too much chocolate in it, so she divided it and made chocolate milk for someone else with half of it. She usually prefers plain milk.
    Plain milk tastes WAY better if it’s your choice than it does when it’s plain because someone else wouldn’t let you put chocolate in it.

    Without free choice, how can a person choose what is plain and good?

    Unschooling begins with a choice between going to school or not. How many millions of people are never given that choice?

    Next is the choice between “doing school-work” or not. Sometimes new unschooling parents are hoping that holding their breath and waiting might lead to children studying a curriculum, just as the mathematically-allegorical monkeys might type Hamlet.

    In the success-bearing phase, unschoolers stop looking for Hamlet or even for English history. But knowing that Ian Holm, who plays Bilbo, plays Polonius with Glenn Close in a Mel Gibson movie causes it to be worth a look for lots of people. And he was Fluellen in Kenneth Brannagh’s Henry V, too. If they watch Hamlet or Henry V because of Lord of the Rings, is that like chocolate milk, or like plain milk? If they don’t watch Hamlet yet, or ever, that’s fine too.

    The most peaceful unschooling families have loosed the ropes that held learning at the dock. They have developed faith in the idea that humans learn best in freedom.

    Perhaps it’s just a pretty truism, about unschooling families. Maybe it is as real as granite. Here are some other patterns for your consideration, though: Unschooling families with young children often fear for the neighbors to “test them” and find them wild or “behind.” Unschooling families with older children politely try to hide their smugness at the positive responses of others to their older unschoolers. How does that change come about?

    There are traditional dialogs adults have with stranger-children. They ask what school they go to. They ask whether the child likes his teacher, and what his favorite subject is. My children haven’t gotten past the first two questions, because if “I don’t go to school” doesn’t stump the interviewer, “I don’t have a teacher” usually does. And so an adult who succeeds in having a conversation with an unschooled child finds himself speaking with a person, and not “a student,” not “a child.”

    For some, this is their first real conversation with a person who isn’t grown to adulthood. My kids are used to being the first, in that way. They’re used to the look in people’s eyes when they realize that here is a child who has something to talk about and who will confidently and guilelessly speak.

    How does that confidence arise?

    I really believe unschooling works best when parents trust a child’s personhood, his intelligence, his instincts, his potential to be mature and calm. Take any of that away, and the child becomes smaller and powerless to some degree.

    Give them power and respect, and they become respected and powerful.

    Is it just that simple? That a parent can GIVE a child power and respect? Can a parent give a child freedom?

    With the freedom to choose what they eat, my children have bypassed sweets more times than I could have counted, and eaten hearty, real food. I saw those choices working before they were old enough to go to school, or not to go to school. They had all the food they wanted.

    With the freedom to choose to stay up or to go to bed, I saw toddlers ask to go to bed because they were tired, and then saw them go to sleep smiling, and wake up happy. They had all the waking they wanted, and all the sleep they wanted, instead of feeling deprived of either.

    Of my childhood, I remember tears over pancakes. EAT THEM NOW. I didn’t eat them again for fifteen years, after that forced-pancake day. Was that good for nutrition? Discipline? Love? Respect? No, it was destructive. I remember being forced at school and at home to drink milk. Was one glass enough? Then is half a glass enough? Will a child drink not one drop more than he HAS to? Is milk better than peace?

    For many children, information is treated like cold pancakes. Skills are forced like too-warm milk.

    What if hot pancakes, served with a smile, would taste really good with milk? What magic happens when it’s fully acceptable for a child to say “No thanks” to hot pancakes?

    Neediness expresses itself differently with different kids. Abundance expresses itself similarly in all.

    Neediness creates various interpersonal problems, health difficulties, psychological stress and sorrow. Chronic neediness becomes a vacuum that cannot be filled.

    Abundance in one person provides benefits for others. A child with all the trust he needs can trust others. A child with all the time he needs can share that time with others. One who has freedom won’t begrudge freedom in others.

    Most people have never known a kid who has experienced true abundance. Most have never met a child who had been given a full measure of respect, so that the child was respected (already) and full of respect (respectful). It is easy to respect someone who has that respect already, and who has so much that he can spread it around to others.

    An abundance of love, of confidence, of self and of freedom will create a flow of respect from and toward a person.”

    sandra dodd


  383.  #383Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Dominique- I guess it’s all about how you feel in a relationship. I would be happy with this , to feel secure, mutual love and happiness etc

    I would like to be married but a marriage without the above things would not equate a happily ever after.

    We were exclusive and committed in the fact that we lived together and spoke of a future before he withdrew after losing his job. Now using roris tools I am focusing on me so I can have my happy ever after what ever form it takes. After reading your last post I believe we are now growing together through this process and I’m attracting him by working on myself. Im making this about me and finally I’m not attached to the outcome of this relationship. I’m happy!

    Thank you again for helping me in my discovery

  384.  #384Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Thanks Daria. I looks like what I have been wanting to do.

    Thanks Dominique. I guess I am the type who have always wanted it to be clearly verbalized so that was the way I got it. I have always been uncomfortable reading the between the lines and just trusting. I wonder how it applies to siren song case, that if the guy was not acting out like an angry toddler.

    siren song I feel so sorry about that.

  385.  #385Daria on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    ohh i feel moved and trembly crying almost

    i feel so excited to have children and be their resource and when theyre into something find lots of stuff for them around that and help them do the stuff they like and want to do !!!

  386.  #386Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:16 pm


    I’m open to this stance on circular dating. Dating without going on dates. I too think this is healthy. Thank you

  387.  #387Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    I want to be a Mom so much!

  388.  #388Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Feminine woman,

    In my last relationship I didn’t realise this…!! Shock horror! I’d never been on a date before as I’d been with my ex from age 14-24 I was still in the mind of one guy at a time. I didn’t get the whole being exclusive. Needless to say I thought we were exclusive until I found out we weren’t!

    Now with strumming man it was different. We became exclusive without speaking about it at all because we made commitments together in terms of our living arrangements etc. All this was felt rather than spoken so I can see where dominique s point comes on this too.

  389.  #389Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Esteemed lol! Re 636

    Of course ha this makes sense now you have said this, possibly why I was confused with it all.

    The idea is you keep circular dating until you meet someone you want to be exclusive with…?

    Maybe this is why I haven’t circular dated in terms of actually meeting and going on dates because I met strumming man and we became exclusive almost instantly.

    When I said I met him… I have known him when we were younger and then got back in touch when we were older. We ‘fancied’ each other when I was 13 but we lived far away. Then we met as adults and the feelings were still there, it was instant so I left the boyfriend I was with.

  390.  #390Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Smile – #383 – “it’s all about how you feel in a relationship” this says it all. and yay!!! you for working on you and healing you, and if he’s your “the one”, he will come along for this ride.


  391.  #391FlowerChild77 on July 6, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Hello all…

    I haven’t been around much, so I’m not at all ‘up to date’ with the blog, but I just wanted to chime in and let everyone know I’m ok.

    I haven’t had internet service for the past few weeks. My financial situation is very sad (as I would have married and moved back home by now and been in a very different situation money-wise.) I feel I’m drowning in bills right now.

    It’s been a little over 2 months now, since he died. It feels like just yesterday….and yet it feels like SO long ago because we’d never gone this long without contact. Some days are better than others and since his ‘sisters’ are out of the picture it’s a great relief.

    I can’t help but kick myself over and over in my mind for waiting so long. He wanted to get married last winter…but no….I had to wait. I’d find much comfort in knowing I was his wife.

    I miss him terribly and I miss our home and our life. I can’t bring myself to drive near there or go look at the property. I feel a bit anxious that it’s not for sale. Having them keep the house and come around here would be pure torture for me. I just want them to sell the place and go away—-they live three hours from here. (Childish, I know…but they didn’t care about him when he was alive, so I can’t understand them hanging on.)

    I’m terribly lonely. Some days I feel good and like I’ll be ok and then out of the blue, for no reason, I’ll feel so sad and my mind is full of thoughts of him and us and I can’t seem to stop it. And, of course, I cry when that happens. I dream of him sometimes—and then when I wake up, it feels like I just saw him and just talked to him and I feel so empty and lost inside.

    I find myself falling in love with him all over again and it’s so very painful. I’m doing my best to move on a little at a time and live one day at a time. I am seeing a therapist, which is very helpful.

    It’s very comforting to know that you are all here and that I “have” what I’ve learned from Rori (and all of you) to carry on with and make the best of what is my life now.

    This dreadful heat makes me feel worse than usual. I have no a/c. It’s usually not this hot here on the lake shore—and this house is so old, I don’t think I could plug in something like an air conditioner without blowing something electrical. It doesn’t even cool off at night.

    Last night did cool down to about 70 with a slight eastern breeze—but I couldn’t open the windows because the *%%($)#)%^@ neighbors had to have their disgusting “firepit” burning. The last thing I wanted to smell was smoke—all I needed was some fresh air after days and days of this. (And yes, these same neighbors have central air conditioning…so rather selfish to ruin the fresh air for the rest of us.) The heat is making me feel grumpy 🙁

    A lady friend from church is kind of ‘hinting around’ about her son who just moved here. He is my age and is going through legal separation/divorce. I feel strange about it. I’m really not ready to date and yet I am SO DAMN lonely I feel like I’ll disappear soon. I was thinking it would be ‘safe’ to meet this man, as I am not ready for real dating and he is still, really, married. (He is newly out of the service and his wife is seeing some other man and was bringing him to their home!)

    I see my kids often and I have friends from church, but they are all quite a bit older than I am (like old enough to be my parents) and I really need some people my own age, I think.

    What do you Sirens think? Should I be open and agree to meet him? Or do you think it’s not a good idea? I’m confused….

  392.  #392Starbright on July 6, 2012 at 2:45 pm


    Wow, you sound like you are doing great! You are so inspiring!

    Just curious if you would be able to share the title of any of those books the marriage counselor wrote? He sounds like he really knows his stuff and I would love to read his ideas.


  393.  #393Daria on July 6, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    mm realizing with my parenst

    when i felt VEry upset at them,

    i would feel shut down and scared.. .like i do with my godson’s mom now

    i wouldn’t feel safe or melt until i heard a nice word from them or got a smile or an impression that all is shifted

    when that happened, it felt like my wall just disappeared!

    so now, well my godson’s mom’s voicemail didnt totally sound loving or anything

    so i didnt feel that way

    and im efeling my shutdown

    and wondering if theres another way to melt it other than waiting to hear something nice from her


    its like a heartwall

    id like it disollved AND i want to feel powerful and loved

    thank yu!

  394.  #394siren song on July 6, 2012 at 2:51 pm


  395.  #395Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:54 pm


    Smile – #383 – “it’s all about how you feel in a relationship” this says it all. and yay!!! you for working on you and healing you, and if he’s your “the one”, he will come along for this ride.

    I will carry this with me, thank you 

  396.  #396Smile on July 6, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    (((Esteemed))) #387 I would like to be a mum too!

  397.  #397lk on July 6, 2012 at 3:01 pm


  398.  #398siren song on July 6, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    In my case, he asked me to move in twice, asked me to go to counselling (to deal with fighting) and told me he wanted to marry me and never followed through on any of it. Things were feeling better then he almost lost his arm. He was never the same after that.

  399.  #399siren song on July 6, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    In my case, he asked me to move in twice, asked me to go to counselling (to deal with fighting) and told me he wanted to marry me and never followed through on any of it. Things were feeling better then he almost lost his arm. He was never the same after that.

  400.  #400ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    @124 Smile

    Thanks! Mr. Observant does all the leaning forward. I don’t even feel the urge.

    I still feel a little concerned about his bipolar. I wish he would get past this episode, but I think he’s being overstimulated a lot, which is being a bit counterproductive.

    He thanked me today for keeping him grounded and said he is so happy. 🙂 He also told me a dating company phoned him and he told them he wasn’t interested. LOL

    No, I have been so busy, I haven’t had a chance to look into the book yet. What about you?

  401.  #401ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    @148 Linda

    Yes, I agree. Mr. Observant has been the only man who asked, “what do you want?” He told me, “You are what is important.” He keeps saying, he is good as long as I am good. He wants to know about me, how I feel, what I want, etc. I’ve never experienced this before and it truly feels like that is the way it should be. We share.

  402.  #402goldenflower on July 6, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    391: FlowerChild77
    First of all (((((((((((((((((((((((FlowerChild)))))))))))))))))))))))))
    Hi, I am so sad for you and what you are dealing with at the moment. You will find a lot of support from this blog and all the awesome sirens here.

    I’m fairly new here as well, I was reading the blog for many months before started writing on it. We have similar names which is nice. I chose mine after a lovely herbal tea called “golden flower of healing”.
    I dont have personal experience of a partner bereavment but II have lost friends and family. I know that as with all mourning, the loss will heal in its own way over time.

    I do know all about feeling lonely however. I have been dealing with being alone again after a nine year relationship ended two years ago. I am focussing on myself and healing my own self esteem and lonlieness. I can tell you that it is definitely possible to feel confident and whole on your own again and feel happy again.

    For what you are asking about whether to meet this new man, I would consider waiting a little, or perhaps just meeting this person in a friendly context.
    It sounds to me that you would help your self more by seeking out new activities where you would meet new friends that you connect with and can share experiences with. This is purely my opinion here, but i would take your time before dating again. You will still be going through a deep mourning and the healing process at the moment, so I feel it is important you are gentle with yourself and dont rush into anything, certainly not through loneliness.
    I feel you would be well served if you reach out to trusted friends and also reach out to find new networks who understand and can help and witness your journey as you heal yourself. Its great you are getting counselling, this is such an important type of work to do. I am waiting to get some counselling again in October. Invest in loving yourself as much as you can, therapies like massage or any you are drawn to can really help lift your spirit and heal.
    With so many blessings Flowerchild. Hope to hear how your journey progresses.

  403.  #403goldenflower on July 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Flowerchild, have just realised I have read some of your posts before, a while ago, was this under different name maybe?. Anyhow, I re -read your post and realise you’re not new like me. Sorry, I dont mean to be ignorant of your situation at all and the lead up to it. I think I remember you posting about the lack of access to his house, or that his family were not good with you.
    Anyway, its good you are posting again, all these sirens will be so glad to hear you getting in touch. At night I hold a large rose quartz then do Reiki healing on myself, but then i am a closet hippy type. Whatever it is that helps comfort is good. I also take food supplements like Rodiola, which I found really helped when I was feeling low last year. Many blessings,

  404.  #404ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    @310 Dominique

    Congratulations!! 🙂

  405.  #405goldenflower on July 6, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Hmmm, I am musing over whether to stay and renew match.com in a week, or try out a new one, or some free ones? I have been so disheartened by the guysd who wink at me on match.com, I mean i really find do few of these guys attractive in any way physically. I look for nice eyes and such but maybe I’m too fussy. Its also because i feel like i am a pretty attractive woman, I do honestly look ten years younger than I am. Many people are always amazed to hear my real age, its just genetics and health. Which is why i kept getting too young guys approach me at clubs, not good! I knwo it sounds like this should not be a problem but I feel that all the guys around my age on the website (in my area) are so ugly to me. It wills eem negative to say but I have observed that an awful; lot of these men in their thrities have set the age they want as a lot younger than them, so i wonder if this is partly the problem too. Oh well, i will keep searching and hope to spot afew older than me who dont repulse me. I see loads of guys when i’m out
    that i find far more attractive than this selection. So i really dont think i am super picky. Any ideas welcome.
    I really want to CD but cant bear thought of going out with a guy i see as totally unnattractive.

  406.  #406Calypso on July 6, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Well . . . I was wrong about needing my boy energy for this court thing! My attorney wants me to dress like a librarian . . . lol. wow – nothing in my closet says, Librarian!!! I wanted to go in and do battle, but she says no – be the lady . . . well, alright then!

  407.  #407Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Thank you Receiving Girl.


  408.  #408Dominique on July 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Flowerchild – So good to see you back. I was just talking about you earlier this week.

    You sound good despite the tragedy you’ve been dealing with.

    How do you feel about meeting someone new? If you feel open to it, go for it, no expectations, just curiosity.

    If you don’t feel ready, then don’t.


  409.  #409ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    (((Siren Song’s Mom)))
    (((All Sirens)))

  410.  #410Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    I am so mad!! :@

  411.  #411ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    I feel tight in my chest thinking about how my parents won’t be accepting of me dating Mr. Observant because he has bipolar. They don’t even know him. My parents are so judgmental.

  412.  #412ReceivingGirl on July 6, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I feel like hiding from them.

    Mr. Observant and I were talking the other day about feeling free to be ourselves. He said, once you accept who you are completely and can be yourself without caring what other people think, you will bring yourself abundance and you can have anything you want.

    I said, so I guess me feeling the need to hide from my parents is holding me back. He told me yes. He said, you need to heal that and it doesn’t matter what it means to them or how they feel, it only matters how you feel. Once you heal that you will feel free, but it is hard to do.

    I told him I hide because I feel judged all the time and I don’t want to feel judged. He kept telling me I need to heal that.

  413.  #413Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    I need to release some of my anger.

    I’m trying to meet new people here because my friends are gone for the summer, so I met this girl which is very friendly and stuff. She’s very nice and talkative, so last week we planned to go running on Friday, so when the time comes I called her asking what time we were going and she said she couldn’t go because she had to go do something. For July 4th, she invited me to go to the town where she’s from and I said yes! But later that afternoon she texts me saying she’s not going there anymore, but that we could go to a bar instead. So I texted her back and she never answered, and then it’s almost night time and I’m still waiting and text her “hellooo?” Again, she said she couldn’t go either because she had to go to her bf’s house, that she’s sorry and blah blah. She did the same thing TWICE.

    I see her today, and she’s very excited about this party. She’s like I’ll make it up to you, today we ARE going. Si I say “ARE WE REALLY GOING?” And she says yes!! we’re actually going. Later this afternoon she told me she would pick me up around 8:30, so I’m about to get ready and now she texts me that she’s too tired and won’t go. Wtf?

    Why do people do that?

  414.  #414Jasmine on July 6, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    When this type of things happens I get so much anger that I start getting anxious and I’m trying to avoid that. Talk to me sirens, I’m getting sick.

  415.  #415FlowerChild77 on July 6, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    goldenflower…thank you for responding. Yes, that was me who posted about his estranged sisters locking me out of the house and ‘using me’ for information, threatening to have my house searched, etc. (and then acting as if I was no one in his life after 13 years.)

    Anyway….my thoughts of meeting this friend’s son are totally in the ‘friend’ zone. He doesn’t know anyone here in town and that’s what was in my mind when she was telling me about him. I still wear my engagement ring. I know that’s probably kind of lame of me, but it’s so beautiful. (It’s only a half-carat…but the cut is really gorgeous. I’m not sure what’s different about it—but everyone comments on how pretty it is.) It’s the most beautiful thing anyone ever gave me.

    I am active locally in groups that share my interests….the problem is that I am always the youngest person in the group. I go to two gardening clubs and a writer’s group and I’m very active in our church…but everyone is quite a bit older than I am…or they’re married with young kids. It’s not that I don’t try.

    You gave me a little chuckle with your comment about being a ‘closet hippie type.’ I can relate. I think of myself as an ‘old hippie’—that’s kind of where I came up with my user name 😉

    I’ve called around about grief support groups—but they’ve all ‘ended’ for the summer. That makes no sense to me. People don’t just die and leave behind grieving loved ones in the winter. I mean, really? But I’ll be going to one of them as soon as a new one starts up again.

    My friends and grown kids have been SO wonderful about it all. They’ve all listened, kindly and patiently, but I feel like a broken record and now I just keep it to myself. (No one has said anything about not wanting to hear about it anymore, but I know I need to talk to people who are going through the same thing.) My therapist assured me that I need to talk about it—that it’s normal and part of healing. That made me feel better. I thought maybe I was going crazy—feeling this intense need to talk about him and our life and our dreams.

    I have a notebook that I’ve been writing “to him” in since he died. When I get so overwhelmed that I don’t know what to do, that’s where I go with my feelings. It still feels somewhat hopeless because I know he isn’t hearing any of it, but it’s all I have for an outlet.

    I also do the Hawaiin verse over and over in my mind:
    I’m sorry
    Please forgive me
    I love you
    Thank you

    I am so very sorry that I waited so long and made him wait. And I’m sorry that I wasn’t there yet—-moved back in. Perhaps if I was there I could have done something sooner and saved him. I am consumed with guilt about it. Also that he may have had doubts and fears because I waited.

    Thank you for listening. It really helps to get it out.

  416.  #416FlowerChild77 on July 6, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Also thank you for the hugs, lk and SirenSong.

    Dominique…first of all, Congratulations on your marriage! I am very happy for you. You look so beautiful in the pictures. <3

    I just feel like I need to do "something." I am determined not to let this grief and depression get me down. I have to find a way to climb out of "the hole."

    This is a VERY small community and a teeny-tiny town. I pretty much know everyone here. And this seems like the perfect situation. He's still mourning his marriage, etc. (but still married) and I'm not ready for anyone who's going to want 'more.'

    I don't have that much opportunity to meet new people, so ….

  417.  #417Femininewoman on July 6, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    FlowerChild you sound tentative but curious about this new person. Going out with him might help distract you a little from the grieving.

  418.  #418Daria on July 6, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    mmmmm i feel pleased and content 🙂

    yay my unpressured girl not ONLY wound up brushing my hair….

    but brushed my whole body which i haven’t felt moved to do for over a YEAR!

    ive been imagining feeling really good having my skin and hair brushed morning and nite,

    and its happening … sigh 🙂

    im blessed

  419.  #419Daria on July 6, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    thanks Receiving Girl

  420.  #420Daria on July 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    ((((Flower Child))))

  421.  #421Daria on July 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    (((Siren Song)))

  422.  #422FlowerChild77 on July 6, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    FW…yes, that’s it exactly. I’m curious and trying hard to keep myself busy and distracted. I still have so much work to do, but I also know I need to take breaks and enjoy life a bit. It’s hard learning how to enjoy myself…

  423.  #423Starla on July 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Did two MMA sessions today, one in the morning, one after work. Rahhh! I feel powerful. My blows are getting so strong. I feel so energized and powerful doing this stuff. I bet if I had stayed with CF, I wouldn’t have the focus it takes to train to be an MMA fighter.

    I love this new hobby of mine. I feel obsessed with my health and fitness and I am totally in love with myself in the best way possible.

  424.  #424Starla on July 6, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    gosh, my life has changed so much. I gave up cigs in November, I gave up caffeine at the end of March, I haven’t even smoked pot in over a month, my blood sugar’s completely stabilized (and therefore, my moods), I wake up early every day now, I’ve lost over 10 pounds and 3-4 dress sizes, I can do push ups omgggg:), I started an awesome website that allows me to indulge my passions, I am studying yet another language in less than a week, and all my friendships are stable and healthy and the friends that weren’t healthy for me poofed.

  425.  #425luzydel on July 6, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    There are more than three types of men I shouldn’t date and they usually hang around POF lol.
    I feel do indifferent towards men I’ve been meeting, I feel bored with them; their agendas dont take me by surprise any more… hard to find what I want…

  426.  #426Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Yay Starla!!!!!!!

    I am thinking to start zumba, at least once a week, struggling so much to lose a couple of pounds. Always starving 😉

  427.  #427Starla on July 6, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Memulo, starving will work against you! Eat MORE often:) Just smaller portions. And then you’ll find you’re not starving all the time when you have to skip a snack or a meal anyway:)

  428.  #428Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    I had a great time at my little vacation and SmartCD was wonderful. Except that my boss was texting me non-stop and unhappy, and I felt so nervous and couldn’t really relax. 6 texts at midnight on my day off.. SmartCD was making funny jokes about it, but I felt terrible. SmartCD was really supportive. And I constantly felt being taken care of. Had to rush home early because I didn’t think to take my laptop with me 🙁

  429.  #429Brandylion on July 6, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    I bought Christian Carter’s e-book on Sunday and I read a bit of it this afternoon. He talked some about how men’s brains really do sort of short-circuit when they’re feeling physical attraction and they don’t start thinking more long-term until that intensity wears off after 2-4 months; this means that all a man needs to want to be with a woman casually is a physical attraction with no desire for a genuine intimacy.

    I was enjoying it until I got to the part where he wrote, “When was the last time you heard a guy who’s physically attracted to you say, ‘I really want to be with you, but I don’t know how I feel about this and I don’t know if I’m ready’?”

    Because that is almost verbatim what PriestCD said to his new girlfriend the week before they started dating. (It sure didn’t take him long to get ready, though.) And that is the essence of what he told me in December he was actually feeling when he and I began dating in June.

    It just felt awful to have that reminder when I’d actually been feeling pretty good all day and not letting thoughts of him intrude much into my work.

    I guess the positive side is that he’s just a typical guy who acts on his physical attractions, so it’s not like I was unique in being on the receiving end of it?

  430.  #430Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Starla, what is the language you’re about to start?

  431.  #431Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    Wow, congratulations Dominique!!!!!!!

  432.  #432Starla on July 6, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Memulo, Japanese. It’s going to be my 7th language:)

  433.  #433Starla on July 6, 2012 at 8:18 pm


  434.  #434Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    I had to remind myself to receive today big time;) He was running late and so was I, but when I offered that he doesn’t wait for the slower me and runs to the boat before it takes off, and I can wait for the next one, he said no. And then when we made it back he got a taxi for me first and I said you take it, I’ll wait, he simply put my bag inside and I had no choice but to take it 😉

  435.  #435Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Yes Starla very impressive!! I only learned languages when I needed to and always postponed the ‘pleasure learning’

  436.  #436Starla on July 6, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    It would be my 8th if Arabic wasn’t such a hardasshatefulb*tch of a language. Yeah…i’m not angry *gives arabic the stink eye*. I intend to revisit arabic soon; that was years ago.

    Memulo, I loved reading about SmartCD waiting for you and then getting you the first cab:). Mmm men are so yummy, aren’t they?

  437.  #437Brandylion on July 6, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Memulo (and anyone else interested):

    I just read this article on Yahoo! about foods you can eat to help you feel fuller longer:


    I feel surprised how many of them are already staples of my diet! 🙂

  438.  #438Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Starla, I feel so lucky to have found him;)

    Arabic must have a tough first barrier but once you pass it it’s probably not that hard. Just different at first. That’s how i felt about Hebrew. A nightmare before you get used to it, but really accumulating after a certain stage.

  439.  #439Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    Thank you Brandylion!! Funny I sort of discovered these foods on my own as well, so it feels very comforting to see that they’re recommended if you want to lose weight.

  440.  #440Starla on July 6, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Hebrew, cool! I learned the hebrew aleph-bet as a more manageable stepping stone to the arabic alif-baa. The hebrew characters are much easier for me!

  441.  #441Memulo on July 6, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Oh I see, so Arabic is even harder. Good luck with Japanese 😉

    Going to bed or I will fall asleep right at my desk 😉

  442.  #442Daria on July 6, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    feelin disappointed waaah

    my girl called me and i think she tried to talk me into contributing money for something which i agreed to really

    but then she like backed out and i had already told this guy who was tryna see me that something came up…

    and now i have no plans 🙁

    and i feel sad that this happened – my mind is making it out bad

    i feel “unloved”

    opening my heart i feel disappointed and scared

  443.  #443Starla on July 6, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    I saw happy couples in love in the warm beautiful weather today all over the place. I felt so happy to see it. I’ve come a long way:)

  444.  #444Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    wow major mood crash

    and upper lip twitching

  445.  #445Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    whine cried a bit… feelin sad

  446.  #446Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    and feeling better a bit

  447.  #447Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    suddeny i feel untouched, unsexed

    my liver feels a bit achy in the back and i wonder if its feeling congested and im gonna get my blood time…

  448.  #448Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    this other guy just said he wants to see me, but his phone is dying and i havent heard fromhim

  449.  #449Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    well i felt my feeling and got to doing something fun and that guy has written me and he’s comign 🙂

  450.  #450Daria on July 6, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    What to do to stop pain and conflict by practicing the cycle of understanding in your closest relationships (and in any situation where you deeply care about the outcome):

    Your partner, boss, child, friend, neighbor, etc., says or does something.
    You observe the behavior or hear the words.
    Assume you have no idea why your partner is doing or saying that. Question your certainty about his or her intentions or motivation.
    ~ Ask him or her the meaning of the words or actions.
    ~ Ask him or her why the words or actions were spoken or taken.
    ~ Ask him or her what the feelings are behind the words and actions.
    ~ Ask him or her what he or she was hoping your reaction would be.
    Listen. Work to understand.
    Discuss what needs to be done, changed, adjusted, so that you can both be comfortable, happy, safe, etc.


  451.  #451Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 10:48 pm


    389 – Yes, the idea is to date 3 to 5 men at the same time, not being exclusive with any, until one puts a ring on your finger (or whatever your idea is of commitment).

    Rori talks about the girlfriend trap…when you give all your personal power to one man, by being exclusive too early. There is alot more to it, but it really works.

  452.  #452Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 10:54 pm


    413 – That really sucks! I’m sorry to hear you were treated like that. I hate when that happens to me. I hope you cut her loose. You know the saying?

    “Fool me once, shame on you.

    Fool me twice, shame on me.”

  453.  #453Esteemed on July 6, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    Women are sensitive; they overthink every little thing and they care way more than they should, but thats what makes their love so strong.

  454.  #454LoveAlways on July 6, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    I’ve dated one of each type of guy!

  455.  #455LoveAlways on July 6, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    I feel that
    I like that word

  456.  #456LoveAlways on July 6, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    I don’t feel that I’ve been receiving from my cds lately. Time for some sweet sexy leaning back.

  457.  #457LoveAlways on July 6, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    I feel so busy busy busy, but I’m having fun fun fun. Just need some s3x s3x s3x. Soon. But I’m leaning back 🙂

  458.  #458Jenny on July 6, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Thanks for this post; I can so relate to the busy man type: this was a good reminder; this is not about me – its about a busy man; and well I will still keep them in my CD. and keep living my life.

    The Man child – gahhh, this man I have so many times been writting with, they often show there true color already by email or chatting; this one I very often dont even meet in irl, since their vibe scares me…alot.

    The depositer man…hmmm I might been very lucky, nothing I really can relate too – but my mother can.

    Anyway a great post that came a great time. I needed the reminder that there is the busy man and I just keep them in my routation.

  459.  #459siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    aw! my friend just had a baby. he’s sooo beautiful. i want to have kids too. i feel happy for her.

  460.  #460siren song on July 6, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    aw! my friend just had a baby. he’s sooo beautiful. i want to have kids too. i feel happy for her.

  461.  #461LoveAlways on July 7, 2012 at 12:11 am

    soon I will drift off to sleep
    I feel almost serene

  462.  #462Daria on July 7, 2012 at 12:18 am


    i took an unplanned baby step!

    i automatically shifted AWAY when a guy had to leave!

    i just automatically moved my attention out the window!

    wooo hooo

    im just realizing this


    thats VERY diffeerent from before, feeling hurt and unwanted without expressing it even to myself

  463.  #463Daria on July 7, 2012 at 12:24 am

    I TALK TOO MUCH! says nv

    i get so swept up in my passion and im talkign talking and i feel like he cant get a word in edgewise

    im talkign about my passion! and i discover new things while i talk about it and it feels so thrilling and he’s interested

    and im afriad!!! am i making friends or what!!!

    im TOO AMAZING???? <<<< …. 🙁 🙁 🙁

    i feel lost

    i feel humiliated

    i feel exposed ad a fraud

    the amazing daria feels lost

  464.  #464Daria on July 7, 2012 at 12:27 am

    i intend to have flowy, non tight non stiffened, legs and backstrings

    what would that be

    stretched lithe flowy powerful fresh flowy


    right now if i didnt compensate by holding my lowerbody stiff id be hunched over flat like a very very old woman 🙂

    which shows something about my nature


    i ve been blessed

    i feel soooo loved right now

    by my grandma


    i love granma spirt

  465.  #465Daria on July 7, 2012 at 12:52 am


    i know what it is!

    when i touch around my nani area, even if im scratching or touching myself, i feel like im in my masculine energy

    like my mind gets all strategizing and i feel like a guy

    and i kinda get turned off

    and also i wind up touching myself rough and disinterested


    and this feels really exposed to write

  466.  #466Femininewoman on July 7, 2012 at 3:45 am

    Carol Allen

    It means that when you DO strongly disagree with something he says or decides, you say, “Please help me understand why you feel that way. I see it differently.”

    And then really listen to him, giving his point of view a chance, without pressuring him to see yours.

    And “never make him wrong” means, that even after he’s explained himself, if you still disagree and must let him know, you can tell him that you do, but you also VALIDATE something about his thinking.

    You say something like, “I get why you’d see it that way. I’d see it that way, too, if I were you. But I’m me so I see it differently.”

    The old, “Let’s agree to disagree” approach.

    You see, no one is ever 100% right or 100% wrong.

    Even if he is just 10% right, if he feels you appreciate his 10%, he’ll be much more open to your 90%.

    But best of all – he’ll FEEL GOOD with you – even when there’s disagreement between you.

  467.  #467Esteemed on July 7, 2012 at 3:50 am


    You are an artist in the exploration of femininity.

    You remind me of the Performing Artist, Marina Abramovich. I wonder if you would feel interested in her work? Most unique…

  468.  #468Esteemed on July 7, 2012 at 3:53 am


    466 – That’s a good one!

  469.  #469Femininewoman on July 7, 2012 at 5:21 am

    Siren Song how’s your mom?

  470.  #470Esteemed on July 7, 2012 at 5:59 am

    The goal of human endeavors is not making money. The goal is transformation of society in virtue and goodness. It is a wretchedly perverted state, in which one lives for the sole purpose of earning money. He works, not conscious of what role he plays in society, for the sole reason that he is given money in exchange. Societies in which people vie and harm each other for money are almost always the most poor, and with the least quality of life – for the simple reason that people are internally poor, less than human, in such societies. It takes no genius to observe that where people are relatively good, kindhearted, believe in values, there is always greater prosperity, freedom, and joy.


  471.  #471ReceivingGirl on July 7, 2012 at 6:31 am

    @424 Starla

    That is awesome and so inspiring! You go girl!! 🙂

  472.  #472ReceivingGirl on July 7, 2012 at 6:33 am

    @434 Memulo

    Yes, receiving can be hard, but it feels so good! 🙂

  473.  #473ReceivingGirl on July 7, 2012 at 6:40 am

    @442 Daria

    I’m sorry you are feeling disappointed. I don’t like it when people back out of plans either. 🙁

  474.  #474Starla on July 7, 2012 at 6:40 am

    Thank you, Receiving Girl, I am finding great joy in it! I feel like an artist and I am the canvass, and I’m just painting whatever I want to see there. And it feels really encouraging that I seem to be a skilled painter, and whatever I envision does come to life on the canvass with the paint of my dreams and goals.

  475.  #475ReceivingGirl on July 7, 2012 at 6:52 am

    I had such a good night’s sleep last night. I slept 10 hours and didn’t wake up once. It’s been a long time since I’ve done that.

    Mr. Observant is coming to pick me up in a little over an hour and we are going away (a couple hours from here) and hiking for the weekend. I feel so excited to get away with him. He’s so excited too.

    I just emailed my parents and told them I decided to take Monday off and go away for the weekend and would call when I was home. I’m still hiding from them. I don’t feel I should have to share everything I do with them, but they get mad if I go somewhere and they don’t know because what if something were to happen. So, I’m being respectful of their feelings, but also giving as little info as possible.

    I asked Mr. Observant if his mom always wants to know everything and if it bothers him to tell her. He said, he tells her what he’s doing to be respectful and she’s his family so he doesn’t mind. It’s not a big deal to him.

    I need to get in the shower! 🙂

  476.  #476Starla on July 7, 2012 at 6:55 am

    Starting the day off with gratitude

    I’m grateful for my memories of traveling abroad
    I’m grateful for my facebook friends
    I’m grateful for my comfortable apartment
    I”m grateful for this cozy bed
    I’m grateful for my laptop computer
    I’m grateful for my long, healthy hair
    I’m grateful for the fresh, organic food in my kitchen
    I’m grateful for my strong, lean muscles
    I’m grateful for the drinking water in my home
    I’m grateful for the sunlight
    I’m grateful for the ability to do whatever I feel like doing this weekend.

  477.  #477Dominique on July 7, 2012 at 7:09 am

    Thank you Memulo.

    I encourage you all to read what I wrote on how this came to be for us. The marriage already was. So making it legal was mostly all this was, yet it was something intangibly more. Especially if you’re seeking another way.



  478.  #478Starla on July 7, 2012 at 7:13 am

    Dominique, I know it was already basically a marriage, but at least you got to dress up in a fancy dress and pearls. Always look for the opportunity to dress up in a fancy dress and pearls, I says:) hehe.

    You look beautiful in your pictures. I like your guy’s style too.

  479.  #479Esteemed on July 7, 2012 at 7:16 am


    475 – How exciting! Have a nice time!

    It used to bother me when my Mom wanted to know where I was going. Then I worried about her a time or two when she didn’t pick up the phone for a couple of days. Then I understood. So now I tell her where I’m going, just enough info so she could help me if I unexpectedly got in trouble.

    If it’s real private, I just tell her I have checked in with another friend, and so I am being watched out for.

    This all doesn’t happen as much, now that she is in the nursing home and I have my own house.

  480.  #480Linda on July 7, 2012 at 7:18 am

    It is hard to live with someone who doesnt want to “get along” or invest in you or a relationship. If there is no commitment to a common end like being together then it is my opinion that is a waste of time. It becomes boring and there is no interest any longer. Yet there is a desire for relationship.

    THey have a completely different agenda it seems or at least you are not their agenda. It makes you sad, Yet there is a desire for relationship.

    I finally get to the place where I just dont have any energy to invest in even defending myself when attacked, try to listen or understand their side., Yet there is still a desire for relationship.

    I feel betrayed and duped. I was promised something very different than what I received by this last man in my life. Yet there is still a desire for relationship.

    My tendancy is to blame myself for being stupid, but I must say that there is ever a child like place in me that believes a person and my hope lives there too.

    I dont have control of others, but I do of myself. Pain in life motivates change. Pain seems to be my constant companion these last 12 years of my life. I dont like feeling like this. I am tired. Yet there is a desire for relationship.

    I am attached to the outcome of my life! What I do has motive, I am searching to have my needs met. There are things that I can provide. There are needs I have that can not be provided by me but from a loving partner. I know it. I can only shelve those things, I can not nor will I deny them. That is why it will never be ok to not have them for myself. They are as vital to my health and wholeness and vitalilty as water is to sustaining life.

    There are things that I need that I dont have now that will always motivate my behavior.

    You ever seen a documentary on animals living in Africa? There is no rain for months…watering holes are drying up. They are driven by thirst and their need for water. They will walk and walk and walk for miles, endure harsh and difficult circumstances to satsify their need for water. This is how I feel right now. I cant find water.

  481.  #481Healing Waterfall on July 7, 2012 at 7:37 am

    Good morning Sirens,

    First, I want to say thanks for all your support the other day. I popped on yesterday to read the threads, but had a rather intense day and did not say hi. I purchased a wealth consciousness program for $149 to examine and make conscious money patterns and it is a doozy. I have felt some good shifts, like I am checking my account balances almost daily and really thinking before I spend something and adjusting how much I drive my car and being much more proactive about building my business….

    but yesterday I was in this zone at the age of 0-7 on the tape where we examined how our parents felt about money and life being easy or hard and I felt really like I was doing something wrong to build my business, like I was breaking a rule or something and I drove to my office and parked the car and it hit one of those cement things you can’t see when you park, the parking lot was angled up and it punctured my radiator….done….gone…..and before that happened, i was feeling like the world did not want me to share my gifts, this awful, sinking constricted feeling and was making intention statements to transmute these feelings into a wealth consciousness state of mind that included being successful……

    and THEN, i got a text from my favorite CD, telling me that my email I wrote on using organic pesticides was amazing and that I was so smart…..

    and a colleague came running out of the office to give me a hug and said she would post my flyers for my talk for me…..

    and my friend answered my phone call for help right away and told her hubby to come pick me up…..

    and a beautiful dog with blue eyes came over to sit with me and give me love while I was waiting for a ride at the mechanic…..

    and so what seemed horrible actually showed me that I am supported and loved and the world does want to receive my gifts…..

    wow, I felt so exhausted after yesterday….and I got another phone call from accountantCD, who has called me everyday this week, so I am feeling loved and supported…

    thanks for listening….

    the wealth consciousness program said that the early years we soak up our parent’s beliefs and thoughts and they are unconscious in us until we bring them to consciousness and yes, that gripping feeling in my third chakra yesterday felt almost preverbal….i am just feeling glad that it has shifted and it feels worth the price of a new radiator to feel safe distributing flyers about my new talk….

  482.  #482Dominique on July 7, 2012 at 7:55 am

    Starla – lol, yes and some really awesome shoes 🙂 of which I did not get pictures, BUT we’re leaving for Boston in a few to visit my dad, and our outfits were requested attire for dinner tonight, so I will be sure to get some pictures.

    🙂 xxoo

  483.  #483Dominique on July 7, 2012 at 8:00 am

    YAY Liz!!! xxoo

  484.  #484Jasmine on July 7, 2012 at 8:00 am


    379 – haha this is definitely a full time job, I try to read as much as I can but I can never get it all