8 Steps To Turn Your Feminine Energy Into ACTION!

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IMG_0577croppedblurHi, This is Rori, and right now – you’re going to be Channeling energy, power, and FUN:

1. Write down all the things in the world that matter to you – that have NOTHING to do with a man.

It can be World Peace, it can be growing your business, it can be moving, it can be finishing a project – and relate any “smaller” ideas you get to a BIGGER end goal – a bigger DREAM that makes you feel happy.

2. Now make a list of anything you could do to help CHANNEL your energy, the power of your thoughts and feelings, into accomplishing any one of those things.

Yes – I’m talking here about Masculine Energy. This is total “BOY.”

3. Now look out a window (or imagine you’re looking out one) and write down things that are FUN.

Things that FEEL like fun.

I don’t want to hear a “have-to” in the bunch.


We’re simply funneling and channeling the energy you’re using now to figure things out, to Problem-Solve into the happy, fun, ACTION, goal-oriented things on your list.

4. Now, purposefully schedule ways to keep that energy moving “out the window.”

Make an actual list.

5. Now – as you practice doing this, you’ll notice a lot of resistance from inside you. You’ll notice the desire to turn from this action work into thinking about a problem, a concern, or about your man – in your head.

You’ll notice yourself wanting to create action around the “thing” that’s bothering you – or around HIM.

Really catch that. Now…

6. Sink into the feelings – all of them.

Whatever they are…let them “roil” through you without judgment or comment…

…and the moment you feel ANY feeling that feels more about power than about defeat or concern or worry…

7. Then immediately go to your action list and TAKE AN ACTION.

DO SOMETHING from your list.

I really want you to associate your first feeling of power with action.

I want you to DO something from the list you have – whether it’s moving furniture, straightening your desk, walking outside, writing a letter to someone, redoing your resume, writing a business plan, starting the outline for your next book…whatever.

*It can’t be random with this step. It has to be something you thought up and wrote down.

If you read over your long list enough, you’ll remember a lot of steps, and so you can spontaneously do something from the list – but at some point I want you to:

8. Cross The Thing You Do OFF THE LIST.

I want you to associate the good, powerful feeling with a goal, with an action step, and with accomplishing it.

And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with HIM or “The Problem”!

To Get More Help Accessing Both Your Feminine “Be” Energy AND Your Masculine “Do” Energy –

…And get them BOTH expanding so far from where they are right now that you can FEEL the power they create – get private, amazing, affordable coaching with a brilliant Rori Raye Coach in the Siren Circle Private Coaching program here->

…and please let me know how this Channeling Tool works for you…

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 13, 2015 at 6:46 am

    Nice 🙂

  2.  #2April Rose on April 13, 2015 at 8:18 am

    Thank you for this, Rori.

    It has come just at the right time.

    I was beginning to obsess and worry about all the things coming up, triggered by dating.

    I was hardly giving time or thought to anything else, especially my own joy.

    Pulling the strands of my energy back to centre now. And I will do the exercise you outline here.

  3.  #3Mistea1 on April 13, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    Hi Rori,
    Thanks for this. I’ve pulled away from all but myself.

    MusicTd is gone unless he reincarnates as a completely different person in this life time and still plays like a god. I’m slightly debating whether to go to the recital next week. I don’t like his manipulation of the music when he knows I am listening and I don’t like what I feel is stalking behavior when he knows I am around. I’ve participated in some beautiful events and know what is out there.

    Lawguy is gone too. I got bored. I have other things that interest me more.

    However, I am still being affected by something about this. I will do the lists and what you suggest above to see if it will move me off my “shipwrecked on a sandbar feeling. ”

    I am working on the Cding around my neighborhood and starting to catch on to that. That is fun.

    I’m imaging lots of just right men for everyone!

  4.  #4Olivia on April 13, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    Rori – you look super cute in the photo!

  5.  #5Tereana on April 13, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    I love this idea of creating a list of things I can take action on that really will bolster my Happy. I am all about making my own happiness a priority right now.

    Because I realized, this morning, that I really didn’t feel like my man, V, was making my happiness a priority. I didn’t feel like a priority in his life. And I communicated this to him. He went on about his work, and how it is the way it is. But it really wasn’t the work I was having a problem with. It was the fact that his actions and choices were making me feel as if I was less important to him in his life. And if that’s how I feel now, how is that going to improve in the future with more commitment? I will just end up committed to someone who prioritizes his work and gives me and [our] family whatever is leftover.

    That is definitely *not* what I want.

    And yet…you cannot control another person. And if that other person doesn’t seem to be prioritizing you happiness, then maybe they are not the problem (even though they might seem to be). Because other people reflect who we are being at the moment. So if that’s the case, they could be reflecting the fact that you are not prioritzing your own happiness. At least, that’s what I surmised about how I was feeling.

    Although I did recently take one baby step toward actualizing my own happiness. I think I mentioned a while back that I’d been accepted to a fashion design program at a school in a different city. Well, I deferred but my acceptance is still valid. I wasn’t sure if it was the right choice for me. But then, after a lot of thought, I decided it was. Making that decision, in my mind, gives me SO much peace and happiness.

    And yet, I still feel uncertain. How will I afford it? What will I do after school? How will I pay for my life while I’m there?

    I don’t worry about V. He’s supposed to get a visa for the city that I live in now. But I can’t bank on anything. He may stay in India, where he’s from. That’s where he is now. That’s partly why I was so upset earlier today. It’s been nearly 2 months since he left, since we could hold each other and kiss and cuddle. We both want and miss that so much. I know he does as much as me. It’s important to me to be with him, and to make that relationship special in my life. But it’s not more important than my happiness, I decided.

    And I told him about it. And he supports me. Even though he denied that it was about my happiness, he still said that he would have encouraged me to go, and he’s happy for me. He’s not bummed at all.

    But I haven’t heard from the school in days. That’s why I am nervous. I am wondering – can I still even go? I left a message today. And still no answer.

    So I am playing a good mind game with myself. I am choosing to believe that this is because good things are in the works. Perhaps they are looking for some grant money or something to help get me to school. Then I will have to do some serious fund-raising. Maybe I can start now. I’ll make a little kickstarter campaign or some other platform. I’ll crowdfund my education. That’s how it’s done now in the 21st century. Lol.

    I am an artist. I am choosing to be an artist. And I want to make clothing my medium.

    It feels sooooo good to make a choice. It feels like the only choice I could possibly make. And still, it is mine. It is all and completely 100% mine.

    No matter what.

    I bet I can take some action steps on that.

  6.  #6Mandy on April 13, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    I just went though something huge today. I listened to lovescripts for a twelve-millionth time and something actually happened. When Rori got to the part of opening your body and breathing, it makes you go from defensive to soft and embarrassed.

    I just sobbed like a baby listening to it.

  7.  #7Mandy on April 13, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    Going through a lot. I feel unsafe, I’ve had so many personal items lost, stolen or crumble apart on me in the past few months, I don’t feel safe anymore. I had an argument with a friend, and it seems like the more she’s around, the crazier I go. And then My mom and J have been really triggering the hell out of me, telling me what I’m doing wrong, it seems. I lashed out at them for it.

    I hate it when anyone in my immediate family tells me what to do, it makes me just loathe whatever it is they are telling me to do. Everyone has been getting on my case to do this or that and I’m so sick of it it makes me want to scream and pull my head off.

    I always feel like other people are trying to run and control my life. All I ever wanted was the freedom to make my own mistakes. I’d love to have one original thought or action once in my life. I HATE it when people suggest stuff to me. It makes me just hate life…it makes me so angry I want to blow a hole in the side of the wall or put my head through it.
    I am so tired of everyone always protecting me and telling me what to do, not getting to make any choices in my life or how it goes.

    I feel very out of control and I feel like people are bringing it out of me when I am trying to mind my own business.

    I am so tired. Of drama and people and stress!

  8.  #8Tereana on April 14, 2015 at 3:06 am

    Oh, Mandy! I know all of those feelings. So well. Hugs to you. You do whatever the heck you want…

  9.  #9Tereana on April 14, 2015 at 3:09 am

    I am having a “crazy thought,” which insure is hormonally based, or at least hormonaly magnified. So I just want to get it out:

    I feel like I am missing my life. That somehow, in the pieces of trying to live my life, I am actually missing the real life that is Me that supposed to be living.

    And I feel so off-track I don’t even know how to get back ON track. And when I do, I meet a lot of resistance. Maybe this is normal. There is a “life” I’m supposed to be living. But I hardly know myself anymore or how to get there…

  10.  #10Tereana on April 14, 2015 at 3:10 am

    *I’m sure (not insure), and * process of trying to live my life…


  11.  #11Tereana on April 14, 2015 at 3:11 am

    Everyone had such high hopes for me, including me. I feel like I am constantly letting everyone down – including myself

  12.  #12Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Mandy when I get to that place I just drop everything and walk. Walk away from people, walk away from thinking….Just walk away from everything and go do something that shuts them out, even if I am in the same house. I just shut all out and don’t even respond if anyone reaches out to me. Yeah I practice cavemanning at times.

  13.  #13Millie on April 14, 2015 at 10:41 am

    This is a good post 🙂

    I’m turning a new leaf as of this moment. I put all of the things that he gave me, cards, his shirt, his toothbrush…into a box and put it away out of my sight and mind. I think removing those things physically will help. His phone has been off two nights in a row, I’m taking that as he wants to shut out, not just me, but everyone. It’s not personal.

    I did a crazy thing this morning, I drove to work and kept circling until I saw him. I parked and walked over, but he was gone. I got back in the car, I kept circling…I called in sick to work for the morning. I felt determined to confront him. But when I parked a second time…and a third time…I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t do it because I felt scared of his reaction, of him being angry at me, but I also felt scared for myself. What am I doing? Why am I not truly listening to his actions and choices. He’s gone out of his way to shut me out. Why go out of my way to destroy that? And what would I expect to happen afterwards? What if I found myself feeling even worse than I already did. Maybe he doesn’t know as I think Indigo…I’m not sure, already said. He doesn’t know how to articulate what he feels, he just knows he feels different. He can’t break up because he feels unsure, but he can’t stay in either.

    I sat in the car and bawled and called my Mom. Luckily she is a voice of reason and told me this is the time to love myself. To go home. To let him go. Accept things as they are, don’t try to change them. Answers don’t always come when you want them to. I understand all of that and I feel I really need to force myself to ACCEPT what’s happened and know that regardless of he’s thinking, feeling, doing, that how he has chosen to handle things feels AWFUL to me. I feel bad in this place and truthfully, I’ve felt insecure and bad with him for a few weeks. I just wasn’t willing to face it. If you love someone, which he very much expressed, you don’t treat them this way. And as Labbit I think said in the other post– that he will reach out in fear of losing the relationship. But he isn’t. Maybe he isn’t afraid of losing the relationship like I am. He started checking out before this happened and I knew it, but I didn’t accept it. I thought we could survive. He led me to think we could.

    I feel really junky right now. But I don’t want to dwell on him anymore. I’m going to reactivate my online profile. I’m going to make plans with my friends this weekend, and I’m going to stop driving around his work…and I’m going to let him go. I’m going to let him go visually, mentally, and physically, until no energy around the relationship, around missing him, aching for him, hating him…is left. If I’m no longer a part of his landscape. He can’t be a part of mine either.

  14.  #14Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 11:04 am

    {{{{Millie}}}}} –
    I’m sending you warm, comforting vibrations and prayers to you…
    this IS a difficult time…
    your mother is so wise…
    “most of the time answers don’t come when we want them to”

    It sounds like you have made some good choices for you… by NOT confronting him at his work…
    and trying to plan fun things with friends and family.
    soothing Love to you…

  15.  #15Dominique on April 14, 2015 at 11:30 am

    I’m off on my dream trip to Paris on Friday!!! I will be checking email as daily as I can manage, so if you need me, want me, that will be the best way. If you’re friends with me on FB, I will be posting pictures. 🙂 If you want to friend me – Dominique Christine –

    Love to you all.


  16.  #16Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Dominique!!! Ohhhh…. enjoy this dream vacation!!
    BonVoyage, mon cherie!!!

  17.  #17Indigo on April 14, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Dominique! Have a wonderful time! I know this is a dream come true for you.

    hugs & “Bon Voyage”! 🙂


  18.  #18Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    I’ve been very good about not texting my man unless he texts first. But yesterday he asked why I never text him. And asked me to take initiative it text him more. What should I do or say to him? I feel like this leaning back thing has really gotten me positive results and I don’t want to go back to being the “chaser” and the “doer”. Thank you in advance for any advice.

  19.  #19Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    How long have you been together with your man?

  20.  #20Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    We were dating 8 months and he pulled away so we split up. We started things back up a month ago after I started using Rori’s tools. And I have never been happier in a relationship. I have leaned WAY back. But I still find some challenges.

  21.  #21Dominique on April 14, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Lavender – Leaning back is not necessarily about never initiating. It’s far more about your energy, where you’re coming from. This may help.



  22.  #22Dominique on April 14, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Here’s another one…




  23.  #23Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    Thank you Dominique!

  24.  #24Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    13 Millie your plans all sound amazing to me. I am glad you didn’t end up confronting him, though I totally understand why you drove other there…really I do. Your mother sounds very wise and I’m thrilled to hear you’re reactivating your online dating profile!!! You are right — it’s not personal. And you don’t need to wait around for him either, it’s nothing personal from YOUR end.

  25.  #25Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    15 Dominique — AHHHHH! Major girl squeals over here!!! I am so excited and thrilled for you. Paris is one of my favorite cities…we have family that lived within the city limits when I was a kid and now just outside in a northern suburb…I go to visit every two years. If you’d like any recommendations of things to do or places to eat please let me know, and if you want to plan it all yourselves or just wander around and be surprised I totally understand!! What wonderful surprises await…

  26.  #26Labbit on April 14, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    18 Lavender — I really feel you on this, I have had much the same experience with my man. We’ve been together over a year now and it still feels weird to me when I initiate texts with him, I immediately feel like I’m chasing him and it doesn’t feel good. I’m more than willing to initiate in other ways with him, but texting is something I prefer him to lead on.

    I love the posts that Dominique recommended and I can also share that the Rori way of going about things would be to come up with a script, something along the lines of “You know, I’m an old-fashioned girl, and it doesn’t feel good to me to initiate texts with a man…”

    I ended up coming up with a highly modified script for myself. It felt weird and rocky for me to say “I’m old-fashioned” and the message didn’t hit with men I tried it on, probably because the words didn’t feel true to me.

    So here is the script I came up with. It’s kind of long, so feel free to edit in a way that sounds true to you:
    “I feel so taken care of when you text me first, and I feel really good inside — all warm and tingly. I like how that feels. I don’t want to feel like I’m interrupting you or pulling you away from something by texting you. It doesn’t feel good to me to text you first…I feel bossy and forceful and I don’t like how that feels. Besides, there are other things I like to take the lead on. 😉 If there’s something important I need to talk to you about, I feel more comfortable calling you. What do you think? How can we solve this together?”

    If I’m giving this speech in person, I will usually touch him affectionately and look at him suggestively when I say: ” Besides, there are other things I like to take the lead on.”

    This has worked very well for me. He now gets pleasure out of texting me first and leading the way there, and if for some reason I do need to urgently reach him, I call him. It’s an agreed-upon signal that my contact is important and he needs to handle it quickly. More masculine pleasure for him!

  27.  #27Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    That article was just what I needed.
    I must say now that I’ve given him the space to be the man I am so pleasantly surprised! He ALWAYS opens doors for me, pays for me takes good care of me. I feel like a princess, and I always thought he was just clueless about these things.
    I’ve always thought of myself as a modern independent woman who can pay and do for myself but I never felt cherished. Even in my 7 year marriage I have never felt as good as I do now. What Rori and other coaches like you are bringing to women like me is a blessing. Thank you.

  28.  #28Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Thank you so much! I love the speech and will use it (edited to my truth). I am so grateful that you shared this with me.

  29.  #29Dominique on April 14, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Labbit – Though we love to wander about and experience with a kinda sorta plan in mind and though there are MUST SEE places we plan on going, any recommendations are very, very welcome. Thank you so much.


  30.  #30Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    Dominique’s links are wonderful…

    also a few posts back Rori mentioned…
    If your man asks you to do something do it!!
    this is him leading…

    and there is a feeling message she has for just this situation I can’t find the exact words but something like…
    “when I text you I feel like I am chasing.
    I don’t like to feel like that…”

  31.  #31Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    Perfect. Thank you Azure Blu!

  32.  #32Azure Blu on April 14, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Labbit #26
    Ahhh… love this!!
    ““I feel so taken care of when you text me first, and I feel really good inside — all warm and tingly. I like how that feels. I don’t want to feel like I’m interrupting you or pulling you away from something by texting you. It doesn’t feel good to me to text you first…I feel bossy and forceful and I don’t like how that feels. Besides, there are other things I like to take the lead on. 😉 If there’s something important I need to talk to you about, I feel more comfortable calling you. What do you think? How can we solve this together?”

  33.  #33Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    Yeah, finding that balance on when to lean back and when to do things is difficult as I am new to all this.
    But I know I had to lean all the way back and do nothing when we started things back up again. I needed to be sure that he really wanted me and wanted this relationship as he had broken my heart when we split up after 8 months and talking about marriage.
    By not doing anything but responding warmly and positively when he would act I discovered not only that he chooses me every day but the dynamic of our relationship makes me feel better than I ever thought was possible with a man.
    But now I think we are at a point where I can do some things. He has expressed feeling hurt that I don’t make an effort to see him. And he asked me to get a place with hi which I declined, and I think that was a mistake. And I recently got a new jib but was waiting for the right time to tell him and he expressed his sadness that I didn’t tell him immediately. So I think I am going to have to work on this so I don’t hurt him or seem uninterested.

  34.  #34April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 1:37 pm


    Have you ever done the tool of Rori’s where you clench your hands and then release them? While simultaneously imaging holding onto a man’s shirt, and then letting go of it.

    I don’t know where to look for her posting on it.

    I remember her saying that the subtle differene between ‘letting him go’ and ‘letting go of him’ is an important one.

    When we talk of ‘letting a man go’ our language implies that we are giving him permission to go. Two things go against this version
    1. It is masculine energy and implies we are in charge.
    2. He has already gone.

    When instead, we think about ‘letting go of him’, we can visualise ourselves opening our hands and releasing the grip we have on his clothing or his arm or his heart. It is much more about US, and about giving ourselves a release from the tension of holding on.


  35.  #35Silver-Tongued Siren on April 14, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    Previous Post – 53 – Beloved –
    What other options do you really have at this point?
    What if he offers ideas that you CAN take? How would that feel?

    I love that way of looking at it! That would feel great!
    I just am not quite sure how to turn down an idea I *don’t* like. Example living with family out of town or something. I can’t do that. I have a business to run.
    Or if it’s okay to turn down without trying it – Because if you’re going to ask a man for advice and not take it, I feel like it communicates that you don’t trust him.

  36.  #36April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Oh sirens,

    I want to date more men than one, but I need your help in figuring out how to do that.

    I have very little free time, and there is one man who has worked out my schedule so that he can be with me whenever I have time off.

    I feel claustrophobic and delighted by this at the same time!! It’s an oscillating response.

    When I feel claustrophobic I figure it must be a trigger.

    I want to experience what my vibe and level of ease feel like in the company of different men.

  37.  #37Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    I do have to share one thing though. The leaning back thing, the way I was using it, almost backfired on my. Week one of is being back together was wonderful because we missed each other so much. But then (because I wasn’t initiating ANYTHING) we didn’t see each other or talk much for a week except a few texts each day. He asked me to visit him at work and I couldn’t because I had plans, and then I didn’t get any more invites to see him. After the weekend when he didn’t follow through on something he said he would do I took initiative and asked him if we could meet for a few min.
    When I saw him I told him “I felt lonely all week. I really love spending time with the people I love and feel very happy to see you right now” “I feel like my needs of emotional and physical intimacy in a relationship are not being met right now. And this makes me feel hurt. I don’t like feeling lonely” He had excuses and stuff but I just left it at that. Was warm and loving to him. I then told him II was thinking of opening up my options and date other guys in addition to him in order to get my needs met. I didn’t say it as a threat, I was just being open and honest about my considering Circular Dating.
    I will tell you what, everything changed from that moment on. I’ve been so happy and tell him every day. He spends most of his free time with me and always expresses how happy he is and thanks me for my time. 🙂

  38.  #38April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 1:45 pm

    It’s taking a while for the penny to drop about triggers.

    We’re not trying to find the perfect man who never triggers us, right?
    I only just got that!

    Hypothesis: The measure of how fluidly I can deal with triggers is an indicator of the strength of the relationship?

  39.  #39Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    April Rose
    I think Triggers are excellent! They force us to work on ourselves. So in a way it’s a blessing.

  40.  #40April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    I think I just made a man wrong.

    And I did it in feeling messages.

    In a text.

    I wrote that I felt heavy and weird being asked about my activities today. I said I know you are just being curious, but I feel peeved.

    He answered that he wouldn’t ask any more.

    Then I said you are entitled to ask whatever you want, but there are some things which press a tender spot.

    I don’t feel good having this conversation by text. And yet it was me who made it into a big deal. He was just asking about my activities.

  41.  #41April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Thanks Lavender,
    I agree. Working through triggers makes us grow.

    And yet… wouldn’t it feel nice to have periods of ease and harmony?

    So many things trigger me. I am like a hive of reactive bees. Ready to sting, if I’m not careful!
    I guess those are my self-protecting mechanisms, right?

  42.  #42Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    April Rose,
    I am new to all this but I can share something I did the other day. I was triggered by something my man said via text. And instead of responding I recognized that it made me feel anxious and icky. And I sat down with a eon and pear and started writing what I was feeling and why I think that this made me feel this way. I wrote what could be my deeper fear that is causing this feeling and realized it wasn’t about him or what he said.

  43.  #43Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    Pen and paper. Lol. Not eon and pear.

  44.  #44Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    Basically we all want to be treated well and have to express our boundaries. But sometimes it’s not really about our boundaries being crossed, it’s about how we are treating ourselves and our own issues. I don’t think it’s fair to bring a man into this, I think we need to recognize what’s going on and work on ourselves.

  45.  #45Silver-Tongued Siren on April 14, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    prev post:
    150 Victoria: Thanks for sharing this! I have been working on this also. Any tips??

    >>. She was so mellow, her voice was like butter, and she was so kind to him, like talking to a favorite child. I have heard her after that on several occasions, she just turned into a completely different person talking to him. We were not friends, and I kind of disliked her, and to me this was one more confirmation that she was a mean, hypocritical bit*h. Now, 10 years or so later, I look at her in a totally different light, and I see she was a master siren… And, somehow, along my journey, I have picked up this skill of talking very very sweetly to the man… this never fails.>>>

    LABBIT: 166: Thank you for posting suggestions about what you do to make your man feel he is wanted. I’m wanting to do better in this area also, as I’m not sure I am. I am very used to doing things for myself…

    I try to refer our child to him at times – “ask daddy, see what he says” “ask daddy to help you”… “will you help me with ___ for our child”… “can you watch him tuesday while I work”..(he usually can’t tho as he works the hours I work).

    I also try to make a point to LET him do things that take effort if he offers instead of jumping to do it..
    I don’t have many specific examples though of what I do.. I really think I need to do better here…

  46.  #46April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    ” I don’t think it’s fair to bring a man into this, I think we need to recognize what’s going on and work on ourselves.”

    I felt the truth of this so much that I phoned him up and apologised for being grumpy via text. He said he hated texting, and I agreed. I asked him what we could do. He said “stop texting”! I said “that suits me!!”
    I thanked him for being a force of grounding and stability, while I work through my buttons being pushed. He seemed really pleased by that remark.

  47.  #47Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Yay! April Rose.
    So happy I can help. And it’s wonderful to hear you got a positive result.

  48.  #48Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Choice of words April Rose. For him maybe peeved carries a push back push away energy. It also reminded me of how I learned that my mom was constantly telling my dad not to do things he was doing to make her happy. He eventually stopped doing everything. I wonder if you can try looking into his eyes and speaking softly when making requests. Focus on what makes you happy “It would make me feel happy or it makes me feel happy when you……..”

    It really seems the last few times you have written that you are more focused on changing him. Are you sure you don’t need some space?

  49.  #49Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    I felt a real “good for you Millie” deep in my gut. You don’t want to be stalking anyone. Maintain your dignity.

  50.  #50Femininewoman on April 14, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    Millie – below from Leigha’s email

    If you can actually start to believe, “He knows what he needs to do and he’ll figure it out.” This will instantly shift your vibe and he’ll get at a “gut” level that you’re a woman who requires a man to step up. It’s VERY attractive to a man and he’ll feel safe to come close!

    That’s IT! There’s no need to say another word about it – and IF he’s the man for you – he WILL figure it out and quickly!!

    Step 3. Get all of your precious energy back onto yourself.

    (Easier said than done – I know!) Think about what lights you up…what makes you feel excited about life (other than this one man)?

    Melt His Heart And Inspire Him To Pursue You Right Now

    Imagine your man’s in front of you. Notice what feelings come up for you.

    If you instinctively want to get closer – STOP yourself. Be patient. This isn’t about playing games, but about undoing old patterns that are sabotaging your love life.

    Melt His Heart By Melting Yours!

    Now – take a tiny step back, drop your shoulders and imagine your body softening from head to toe – melting like soft, gooey, golden, goddessy honey. He’ll move towards you – he won’t be able to help himself!

    This does two things! It creates space for him to pursue you (the space he craves and needs) AND it will quickly shift your vibe from tense to irresistible. It will draw him in (like bees to honey!) and make him want to get as close as he can. All of a sudden you’re an invitation he can’t resist!

    I would love to hear how this goes for you!

    As always – please keep me posted! I love receiving your updates!!

    Love, Leigha

  51.  #51April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    I feel curious about your comment that I’m seeking to change him. Hmmm…
    It’s more that I’m feeling my way through whether he feels like the right man for me as he is now.

    And, my big revelation, which I’m feeling my way through in baby steps, is this –
    “Do you love yourself more in his presence?”

    I never understood that question before.
    I see it now as finding out how deeply I can go into, and express, my authenticity when I am with a man.

  52.  #52Silver-Tongued Siren on April 14, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    Avocado, after coming very close to me again in the last few months, knowing fully that I wanted to be together and live together, having sex together for the past several weeks, and then when I suddenly had to move, still was very close to me, was appearing to look at places together, even entertain the idea of discussing buying a house together, having opened up to me about how depressed he was at not accomplishing anything by now in his life (it’s his birthday) – The last few weeks however, since moving became a real thing (unexpectedly), he has withdrawn, and after previously offering and repeatedly telling me his apartment was available for us to stay if we didn’t find anything – Suddenly needed to “think about it”.

    He had gone out of town to work at his family’s business for the weekend (and didn’t even acknowledge my prior invitation to celebrate Easter and his birthday (and visit his family), maybe have dinner for his bday and go camping the next weekend. (valentine’s day he didn’t spend with me but told our son and I that we would all three go camping together very soon).

    He spent his birthday (two days after Easter) with another woman he’s been seeing (he isn’t aware I can see his instagram).

    He didn’t even let me know when he got back! Knowing I would need a place to stay. (but apparently having great faith in me to figure it out.)

    I had coordinated a place to stay for a couple of nights anyway since he was going to be out of town for the wknd (just in case) and he knew it was just a couple of days. But last Thursday when I asked if I could come to the apartment the next day, he was like “………………………………………………………… Are they kicking you out?”……
    (….He knew it was only for a couple of days).
    He said “let me think about it tonight.”

    SUNDAY night, THREE DAYS LATER, at 9pm, he texted me.
    “Hey what are you guys up to?”
    “(Just finished dinner)”
    “Did your friend let you stay with her?”
    (“We are still there, yes”)
    An hour goes by.

    I took Beloved’s suggestion to enlist him in creating the solution rather than being the solution.

    I texted him this:
    “Staying with (my friend) was only a few day thing.”

    “I’ve felt very happy envisioning our family together, (for many years now), and feeling positive and optimistic about it. Suddenly moving felt like a perfect opportunity.

    “As for finding a place for just our child and I, not yet finding any options, with one income + our child, I’ve felt a little scared and at a loss about our living situation.”

    “I definitely don’t want to put any pressure on you or our relationship. I’m feeling a bit scared and uncertain. I don’t know what to do here.. What do you think?”

    No response yet..

  53.  #53April Rose on April 14, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    “Do you feel inspired by him?”

    Is he in his power? Making things happen in his life. Being happy and proactive in his life?

    Is he motivated by fear or by expanding love? Does he talk about the things he doesn’t like or the things he loves?
    Is he self-protective (separation)? Or does he define his life as connected (to people and things and projects)?

  54.  #54Millie on April 14, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Feminine woman– I know. I feel really bad about going there. I know it was wrong and unsireny. I was totally out of my mind!!! But seeing him there against the sky, overlooking his job, he seemed proud and authortiave. So attractive… And sad to be within feet of someone who is in the moment feels like the creator of my anguish. I know he’s not and I shouldn’t look at it that way. I like Leighas email. I will try shifting my vibe using that: ” he will figure it out.” It feels so trusting and respectful and calm. I wish I had been able to do that from the start of this. If he was going to come around, I feel I’ve lessened the chance by doing all the things thst don’t work. But he will do what he will do… And there’s no way of knowing why right now.

  55.  #55Millie on April 14, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    April Rose I will try that tool!!

  56.  #56Silver-Tongued Siren on April 14, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    What I WANT to say to him is this:

    I want you to know that I feel so happy seeing you.. Our life and family has been *all I can think about* for the longest time. You and this have all been on my mind constantly. I’m doing my best to open up my heart and share with you what I’m feeling and needing. I’ve felt so much closer to you. I love talking and spending time with each other, knowing what you’re thinking, making love, feeling close and connected.

    I’ve felt so lonely for you the last few weeks. And of course it’s fine to not know what you want or to take time to respond to me about something, tho I’ve felt unacknowledged when I’ve shared with you or asked questions and that makes me feel alone and disconnected. I have been missing you deeply and been so happy with becoming close again, feeling loved and wanted. I feel like my need for emotional and physical intimacy aren’t being met right now between us and it makes me feel hurt. I like to feel connected. Do you have any ideas for things that can make this feel better? I am so open to them…

    Not sure whether to share this or not, since he hasn’t responded to the other message yet. And I’d rather text but know it would be more powerful in person if I could remember what I want to say. I’ll see him Thursday afternoon when he picks up our child.

    I did express last week that I was sad and confused to be unacknowledged the previous wknd, (but that I was sure he was doing what makes him happy), but that I was sad to miss his bday and easter.

    Still, I feel it’s important that he know this distance the last few weeks has been painful. It would feel good to get some solutions, …. some time together. It’s okay if he doesn’t respond, at least I have expressed what I feel rather than leaving him to assume.

    After reading what FeminineWoman posted about trusting that he will figure it out, I wondered if I shouldn’t say this, but I feel that I need to be communicative, and if I can do it with the leaned back attitude and know that he will figure out what he needs to do, it will work out well.

    I feel uncertain about it but think really if I always have that attitude behind whatever I do or say I can do/say anything. Tho admittedly I do feel tense right now, because of his withdrawnness and not acknowledging me, perhaps I can express this at a time when I feel relaxed and maintain that relaxed feeling even while talking to him in person.

  57.  #57Lavender on April 14, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Silver tongued Siren,

    When I did that I made sure to do it In person. I think he should be able to really feel what you’re saying an it’s hard over text. I would wait for him to step forward and if he doesn’t, suggest meeting in person in a non pressure way.

  58.  #58Zia on April 14, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Oh Silver. Big hugs for you. My heart feels so achey when I read all that you write. From where I am standing, this man is telling you loud and clear how he feels about the situation. Please, don’t send that text. It will most likely make him feel even more backed into the corner. You are giving him no space to come forward at all, and I can tell its because you are anxious and panicking about the situation. He is spending his time and energy with another woman right now, and all this leaning forward energy and explaining and telling him you miss him will not inspire him to come to you – it may push him away even further.

  59.  #59Zia on April 14, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Silver – I REALLY think you should contact one of the Rori coaches for some one on one help with this.

  60.  #60Dominique on April 14, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    April Rose – 38 – AWESOME revelation!!! Actually triggers are opportunities for tremendous growth and healing. Have you seen this one?


    Love to you.


  61.  #61Millie on April 14, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    Silver tongued—

    I don’t know much about your relationship, but I can say that I wish I was more supportive of my man when he was withdrawing and not being as affectionate. I took it a bit personally and shared often that I wanted to see him and that I missed him. I wish that I had been more supportive of him taking space and instead of trying to bring the relationship back to me….allowing it to be right now. My situation is probably very different from yours, I’m just sharing that in hindsight, I wonder if my expressing my needs added to his stress instead of easing it. I wish I had supported his choices more instead of feeling it as a slight against me.

  62.  #62RileyTheOwl on April 14, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    I feel calm
    I feel at peace with myself 🙂
    Maybe it’s the chamomile tea I’m drinking…
    I love my new dog so much, she is so sweet, and I feel all smiley every time she comes over to nuzzle me 🙂
    Today, while I faced yet again so many anxiety triggers being at school and being around all these people… with C “lurking in the shadows”, possibly just around any corner of the hall or campus throughout my day.. I felt always nervous of running into him.
    Yet, today, I felt and really embraced all my fear and nervousness around the thought of seeing him, and I just held my head up and felt really beautiful, and I glided all over campus despite my fears. I just felt the sun on my face and walked on, not looking around me to much. I felt really good doing that.

    I feel excited to see Hula next Monday, I’m trying to not set up expectations for myself about how it’ll go. We’re hula hooping on the beach, and every time I imagine Monday (because I’m using it to distract myself whenever I find myself feeling too down and distracted by C) I don’t imagine Hula (the guy I’m seeing that day), but I imagine my toes in the soft sand, tilting my head up to feel warmth on my face, and just enjoying the experience.

    I feel especially beautiful today, maybe that helped me with my confidence during the day, but I just feel so lush and soft and strong. It’s a wonderful feeling. I feel this deep grief in me at times, I’m not feeling it as I type this, but earlier I felt it… and I just held it with me along with my confidence and beauty feelings, not ignoring it, just letting it be part of my softness and part of who I am. I felt beautiful and soft and grief. All together. I held my head up and felt my grief and felt flowy. It’s an empowering feeling when I can really embrace the grief while not blaming myself or having gremlins shouting.

  63.  #63Millie on April 14, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    In a way, I love the learning process. I love seeing what I could have communicated better, done different, had a change of approach. but on the other hand it is painful to know what you could have done different. To see where you went wrong and to know in your bones that your behavior contributed to a man withdrawing from me. I don’t think my man would have withdrew so much if I had been more supportive and confident in our relationship. But I questioned him and I questioned myself because I’d rather ask than not know. But perhaps that bit me in the butt because now he clearly doesn’t feel I am safe to be around when he’s feeling down. It is most likely a lot more things than just me…..but I feel I could’ve been more of a safe place for him. On the other hand I did a lot of things right. I really did. And I’m proud of myself. I communicated how I felt at every step. I let him initiate until he started withdrawing and things changed. I see that I started chasing a bit after that and perhaps that contributed to things. He loved me because I did nothing in the beginning. I didn’t have to do anything and he loved me. I’ll have to remember that going forward. Perhaps my vibe changed so much that he didn’t recognize me. I was no longer the woman he fell in love with…who did her own things, didn’t pine for him… waited until she felt ready to speak. I did lose some of that. I started planning my weekend around him because we got in the pattern of spending the weekend together. I started expecting it. And was disappointed when he chose to do something else. I wanted things not to change, and when they did, I tried to get them back…and that trying, that energy spent trying….perhaps pushed him away. It’s more than what’s going on with him I think, even if he can’t articulate it. I think it was me too. He changed. And I changed…and then it didn’t work anymore.

  64.  #64Kath on April 15, 2015 at 12:41 am


    I’ve just shed so many tears reading “Relationships deepest triggers”-and a memory pushed itself it the forefront which made me feel really sad. You mentioned feeling safe in our relationship with a man and I know that is the crux of all that went wrong for me-I didn’t feel safe. He always seemed to run to his X wife, his x girlfriend, his x squeeze any time they wanted his help and it made me feel very vulnerable and unnoticed. One time, we were holding a family party at the house we were living in (which happened to be his former marital home-but that is so another story) and his x-wife was in the kitchen and wanted to make everyone a hot drink but we didn’t have enough mugs. So R left the house, left the party and went to the nearest store to buy a set of mugs so that his x-wife could make everyone drinks!- And what made me feel invisible was that I didn’t even know he’d gone-he didn’t even come to look for me and tell me that’s what he was doing. Now, light years away from that event, but suddenly back in that awful feeling, I am trying hard to stay strong and be me again-and although he can’t seem to let me go and has invited me to go to see a film with him and I’ve said yes-I still have his text in my head where he said he was loyal to his female friend because she has never let him down and always been there for him and I so wanted him to say that about me-but he hasn’t and he’s not-and I feel vulnerable again!!!!!-

  65.  #65Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 1:30 am

    The story about R. running to the store to buy mugs is just one more confirmation that it is very important for men to be giving and doing things for others… And, it is so wonderful to be on the receiving end, and so annoying when you see the man giving to someone else.
    I understand you very well. At the same time, we can’t really ask men to do things for us because when we do there is like a 50% chance that they will interpret it as a command and will resist it. We have to somehow let them know, like non verbally, or not directly, that we need their help. I guess this is why feeling messages work.
    I found great resistance to the idea of feeling messages at first, it all sounded so hypocritical and sugar coated to me at first… but they work so much better than any other approach.
    I was thinking also about what Labbit asked in the previous thread – how to make a man feel needed.
    You know, save for moving heavy objects and opening an occasional bottle of wine, I find it hard to be making my man needed, except for needing him physically. I am a very cuddly person and I need physical affection, and I “go and get it” from him and I think he loves this part in our relationship. He would rarely initiate physical touch – I think he was brought up in a household where people simply do not touch each other, ever. He just melts and shines when I reach over and touch him – I think he does not initiate to a large extend because he just delights in seeming that I am physically attracted to him. I suspect that being found to be se*xually attractive is the biggest compliment you can give to a man… and beats asking him to bring down objects from high shelves most of the time, especially if you are 5.10 like me 🙂

  66.  #66Kath on April 15, 2015 at 2:32 am


    Thank you- Yes, I have found it hard to use feeling messages because I have always been so independent-but this man has touched me more deeply and triggered me more deeply than any other man I have ever met- and that is what has been such an overwhelming thing for me. Even though we are not together now and he still wants me to prove to him that things could be different I know is huge-but I also need to know from him that things will be different from him too- I suppose that is what I need to put in a feeling message isn’t it?- It does break my heart to think that we may never be a couple again-even after all the anger and pain that I have felt-but I have done a lot of learning too-I really really want another chance to show him who the real me is-and I know that I have to be the siren to do that-and it is coming-but I do have these feelings of relapsing that send me into floods of tears and bring up images of my poor little girl needing so much love and support-oh boy its so hard sometimes xx

  67.  #67Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 3:00 am

    So interesting for me to read about your man and how is not affectionate unless you initiate…
    I have a wonderful x cd … G… we got along so well, enjoyed all the same things… talked easily, he stayed in contact daily… energetic etc, etc…
    BUT his kisses felt like kissing my brother…
    he NEVER touched me at all… holding hands but that was it…
    I broke it off because I could never see how that could change… he told me recently he was raised in a family where affection was considered unmanly…
    I feel curious…how have you been able to work through this?

  68.  #68Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 5:45 am

    You know there was a time when I was thinking that it would be better if he would initiate more, but because he is so wonderfully cuddly when I do it, I decided not to sweat the small stuff. Also, he is absolutely amazing in bed, and he responds so well to touch and kisses when I initiate. I think I have gotten him addicted to me touching him and now he is constantly asking me to do it. It just will not occur to him that he simply has to touch me in order to get me to touch him, but hey, nobody’s perfect. I also suspect that, besided the coldness in his family, he has been rejected by a woman before me, and has been forced to believe that he is sex*ally agressive bordering on pervert and he is better off by not showing this side of him. This is both very sad and wonderful for me – one woman’s trash is another womans treasure, lol.
    He is not very alpha as a whole. He is big and good looking and a doctor, but he is also shy, passive, and heavily in debt. A very complex personality. I just had a row with him by the way.
    Remember I said he made plans for the next date? Well, he cancelled them today… He had a night shift and was deadly tired and came to see me just for lunch and just said he has to cancel our other plans and for tomorrow again he will be busy with work and we will not be able to do what we planned and then fullstop. How about Friday, Saturday, Sunday? His planning capacity works only for 2 days ahead. Then, we will see. You know, I try to be understanding and everything, and I am much much more tollerant than before I met him but he is really putting me to the test. So, we had a fight, and then of course we made up etc., and all is well, except that … he will never change. Oh well, what was I thinking.

  69.  #69CurvySiren10 on April 15, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Millie, I had a very very similar experience with what you’re going through right now. It was 4 years ago with a man I am now in a committed relationship with. It was super rocky for a while back then and exactly for the reasons you described with your relationship. I will tell you this….it was only when I really carried on with my life, stopped chasing and focused on ME (for real, not forcing) that he came back and pursued me heavily. Your insight is fabulous. I wish I had it back then, but it took a long while for me to get there. You are growing a lot from this experience and I can feel your strong Siren persona shining through, even during such a painful and difficult moment. Lots of love to you!

  70.  #70Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 5:56 am

    I fully commiserate with you (I hope this makes sense in English) … My little girl is also very defensive and cries very easily. And, it is very difficult for her to speak slowly and softly, and to be open. For her, it is either easier to be defensive (and she bites!) or to run away and just cry alone. It is very very difficult to connect to another human being, a man, and accept him and just love him.
    When we were talking today he said, I see I am making you unhappy, I see I upset you, and that makes me feel so bad, and I can see you are searching to get something from me, and I am so afraid that I simply do not have the thing that you are looking for. It was really heartbreaking for me.
    I tried to speak with feeling messages. It went well for awhile, like I said 9 senstnces which were feeling messages, and then, the 10th one, I was hoping it will also be ok, but it wasn’t, it came out as an accusation, but the thing is, this is how I meant it, and the first 9 were just covering up my true feelings… OK, I will try not to beat myself, but I still have a lot to learn.

  71.  #71Kim on April 15, 2015 at 6:24 am

    Oops…I posted this on the other thread…seems I am not up to date lol:
    Hm. I have noticed that my guy has recently become a little less communicative and less giving…not sure if I am just nitpicking. We used to do much more, at his pad. He would cook for me and we would spend weekends there, go boating etc. Now I am cooking more, paying for groceries…I paid for the boat launch…and I am angry with myself because really, I can’t afford to do this anyway. Why do I feel like I have to start giving like this?
    Recently, he has been so involved with moving, it has already taken him almost three months…three months! I have never known anyone who takes three months to move.
    Everything is complicated. I feel mentally exhausted…every little thing is a ‘complication’ in his mind. Things that just need an email to management for a bike key, for example, get blown into a problem.
    I feel scared. It is kind of worrying me that our personalities are so different. I worry that I am selling myself short and I am beginni g to wonder….has he even the capability to ever buy a house, or propose, when he takes small simple every day happenings and turn them into a production. A problem.
    I feel like my life is going to turn into a problem.
    We discussed trash cans already for a week. Trash cans. He wants to have three. For recycling. I have a TINY kitchen. I take my trash out once a day for that reason. I have jardly space for one, but he needs three and has said we could always put them into the closets. Trash in my closets?
    I am a very light hearted, risk taking, fun loving girl and I am beginning to feel suffocated already.
    He is moving in next week…supposedly.
    I am afraid, that he will move and everything is going to stagnate and we will be cramped in a studio…forever. He has not been looking for houses at all, which was the ‘deal’.
    In fact, I am wondering if I am really wrong in letting all this happen without the ring, the house, the future planning…I feel I am going to get stuck here. When I think about this, I feel like crying, like ‘why do I still believe I deserve LESS’.

    It has taken him three months to move from a one bedroom condo…and not finished yet. I find myself thinking that this is as far as we can go. I have been so patient.
    Yesterday, we had our one weekly date (our dates have reduced because he was busy with moving and I have been understanding). We met with friends. It was a free appetizer evening and one free drink…it was an event I was invited to.
    …..we had to pay for the second round of drinks (bearing in mind everything else was free), and I remarked that the drinks in the place were not cheap. He paid and then said that yea, he was surprised that my drink (a mixed one), cost the same as his beer, which he found ridiculous…wow…I felt bad, like I was out of order….this is the third time now, the other day I ordered a club soda (!) and he remarked that he finds it ridiculous places charge for water. I was so thirsty and felt like a change from regukar water. He went on and on, and the same scenario happened a few weeks back, and I said ‘ you know, next time I won’t get one’. It was a couple of bucks.
    I felt my sensibilities kind of violated. I felt like I was not worth a club soda. This is all new btw.
    I don’t know.
    I love him, he is great in so many ways….but…I feel things are changing and not for the better and I feel off balance, like I am giving all my power and CDing away for arguments over trash cans and simple things, when I would rather talk about house hunting, getting married or other big ticket items.
    Last night, I got pretty upset…we had hardly time to talk all evening on our once weekly date right now, and as we got home, late, and went to bed, he turned away from me and started texting…now, he often texts with his work friends after work…sometimes all night, which I kinda find weird anyway but that’s his thing. Yesterday it bothered me..I remarked ‘is it something important?’. He said nothing, normally he will make a remark what they are chatting about…nothing.
    I got up and checked my work emails, as I felt bad just lying there alone….and, in fact, I think he was texting his ex and didn’t want to tell me.
    Not that it’s any of my business of course, whatever, but I don’t wanr this whole sneaky behaviour late at night…when we were supposed to go to bed and chat or whatever.
    Even if it was his work colleagues, which I doubt, I felt kinda put aside…I do not hear from him when he is at work, at all….often…so I am feeling discarded when he has to text with his colleagues he sees all day, all week, on a 4 hour date with me. Or his ex!
    And then be secretive about it.
    I am probably just getting cold feet, but…I feel concerned that I am selling myself short..and my future..and now, I feel it is too late to change it. Ugh.

    Wednesday, 15 April 2015 @ 4:47am

    173: KimNo Gravatar says:

    This thing about setting oneself a timeline is a great tool, I believe. I hve done that a while back, so until then I will see how it goes a d feels. The point is that I have also promised myself that after we have talked about it a few times, and usually me bringing it up….I am not going to mention the future anymore…because at the end of the day, I do want a man who moves things forward and I am done bringing stuff up, other than things in the here and now.
    It would feel bad to push a man into anything, and have that on my mind potentially for the rest of my life…no no.
    If this is not meant to go any further, then it is not meant to and I will be happy regardless. That much I know.
    I have been very patient and often gone against my personality here, in waiting and watching and sitting back.
    I am not going to be doing that forever though…no,

  72.  #72Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 6:30 am

    From everything I have learnt here, if you see he is leaning back, you need to lean back.
    As hard as it is, there is nothing else for you to do.
    I guess I need to be telling this to myself. My man is cancelling plans, I need to get scarce. Need to get scarce. Stop complaing and pining Victoria, and get a life. Urhhhh.

  73.  #73Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 6:34 am

    Lovely Siren,
    Thank you for your answer about affectionate… or not…
    very interesting…
    YAYAYAYAY!!! for the 9 feeling messages…
    We are… by the way… only human!!! :-))

  74.  #74Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Victoria & Kim #72
    Me too…
    I have decided… I have said all there is to say
    leaned forward WAY too much for My comfort
    (and his too.. i imagine)
    I will now… get a life…
    and get on my horse
    and do what i do best… LIVE!!!
    So great to have You lovely Sirens for chearleading and understanding!!

  75.  #75Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 6:43 am

    Thank you, thank you… You know a part of me is just laughing at me… I mean, another part is very said, I cried and everything, but it was an extremely comical situation…
    I said “I feel loved when you make plans for us”
    ” I feel so special when you make plans and come up with all these wonderful ideas for things to do together”
    ” I feel turned on when you do the masculine things in our relationship””
    And then, as everything was going great, he was being flattered and all, I said something like
    “I feel you are a total prick when you keep repeating how much you want to spend time with me and then cancel our plans”.

    That much about “I feel” 🙂

  76.  #76Kim on April 15, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Victoria, fortunately it is not hard for me to lean back….at all…however, somehow it doesn’t resolve the issue really.
    I have a super full life, but he sulks if I go out with others, and asked me to stop CDing.
    In some ways I feel like a fool for agreeing to it when I see the resuls are that he is relaxing, feels like he has me, and decides on our once a week date now, to turn around and text work colleagues he sees 40 hours a week, at night, or worse, his ex…lol.
    I do feel a little like a fool.
    Although I know he is not doing this to upset me, he is the nicest man…I do feel there is something passive aggressive going on here, same with the drinks….and I do not understand. I do not like it.
    It feels ominous to be chastised for ordering a club soda…I feel undertones of something I don’t like. Much like he knkws my financial situation, sees me buy groceries for our meal and offers half heartedly to pay when I already swiped the card….it’s like he is changing, and I don’t like the change.
    I am definitely leaning back, but more so, I do not want him to think i am punishing him, but seriously, I don’t WANT to soeak to him right now, I am really a little upset about last night and that he had to text whomever late at night when we had this rare couple time.
    I am thinking, if this is how it is now, how will it be when he moves in, will I be just convenient?
    I do not want that 🙁

  77.  #77Kim on April 15, 2015 at 6:51 am

    Azure, you knkw, I was also thinking about your situation..it seems Spirit is happy when he has you….and knkws you are exclusive, and feels relaxed and lean backy…lol…just a little like my guy.
    They are comfortable, maybe he can not offer more with his daughter etc. Maybe this is how he lives relationship…what do you think?
    You know, MrP was like that. While we were seriously dating,for some time, it was seemingky enough for him to meet every other week and talk maybe everry three days…he thought it was a relationship…but in reality, I always wanted more…
    Yes, ladies, time to get back on our horses and look at our lives and how we can improve them and love ourselves, which is in the end the solution for everything! Yes!

  78.  #78Kim on April 15, 2015 at 6:52 am

    75 Victoria LOL you remind me of me 😉

  79.  #79Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 6:59 am

    I can feel how panicky that would be when my wonderful, good guy starts acting different as soon as I stop Cding and agree to moving in!!!
    (by the way… this is much of what i am experiencing with Spirit… but not the moving in)

    One thing alll the dating experts talk about is that
    YES… your relationship WILL CHANGE as you move forward… get to know each other more and
    move in together, marriage etc.
    This is GOOD and the challenges will be different and NEW and Different feelings to LEARN to navigate…

    Your intimacy muscles are being S-T-R-E-T-C-H-E-D!!!

    How long has it been since you lived with someone?

    I can only imagine the amount of ANXIETY your little girl is going thru…
    Maybe you could sit with her… talk to her…
    give her a BIG hug
    and ask her to telll you ALLL that is bothering her… that you will Take Good care of her and
    I think I need to take my own advice here!!! ;0))

  80.  #80Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Victoria #75
    Ahhhh…. :-)))
    I am laughing… yes… i needed some levity here!!!
    I’m sure Spirit is thinking I’m putting MUCH emphasis on US… which I’m sure seems VERY different than when I was CDING

  81.  #81Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 7:03 am

    I think this is very common that they want to have us with zero effort, and when we withdraw, they get pissed off.
    As we were leaving from our lunch today we met a guy I used to work with, a very good looking 6-7 years younger than me (we actually made out at a colleague’s wedding once upon a time). This guy had the brightest smile when he saw me, and he greated me like he saw his best friend.
    F. had been so tired and everything, and the moment he saw this other guy smiling and greeting me, his chest grew big and I could almost hear him grumble.
    He then interrogated me for 10 minutes who is this guy, how come I never mentioned him etc.
    They are either clueless or hypoctitical or I don’t know what to call it. Did you read Lovergirl’s story?
    They resist giving you what is so obvious for a woman to want, and then they moan and cry when you get it somewhere esle, and try to diminish you for being interested in meeting other men. Well hello.

  82.  #82Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Kim can you see though how you make thing about the club soda about you? It has nothing to do about your worth. It is related to his boundaries with money. He thinks the club soda is not worth what they charged because it doesn’t have all the “spice” that beer has. This is in his mind. He is comparing the worth of beer against the soda.

  83.  #83Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 7:05 am

    He does sound A LOT like your Mr. P
    Yes, this is part of my experiment…
    What does Spirit consider a committed relationship..?

    This seems to be his pattern… which is fine for him…
    But this isn’t what I have in mind…
    We are just different…
    I will keep that in mind…
    and lean back for the remainder of my timeline..
    All is well…
    and am feeling anxious etc.
    But have it in a better perspective…
    THNX Darlings!!!

  84.  #84Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 7:12 am

    FeminineW… #72
    Ahhh… BRAVA…
    yes, this is exactly what is going on…
    i love what you are pointing out
    as it is something I do on a regular basis…
    making something, that has nothing to do with me…
    about ME????? !!!!

    Ahhh… I have been working on looking at my interactions with EVERYONE with curiousity
    NOT hyper vigilance and hyper sensitivity!!!

    This is something i inherited from my mother
    and would love to take it out of my inheritance!!!

  85.  #85Kim on April 15, 2015 at 7:17 am

    82 FW yes!
    I am just thinking, how odd it feels that this is surfacing now, after 2 years, when we were about to move in together…you know? The price of a club soda or a lemonade or a beer never bothered him before…much like he never expected me to pay for boatlaunch or our groceries before…it’s like he is resisting something, or dropped all effort…and I severely dislike it. I am not saying it’s about me, but indirectly I can’t help wondering: has my value dropped here?
    It feels like it.

  86.  #86Kim on April 15, 2015 at 7:18 am

    81 Victoria, I concur.
    It’s annoying me. It is also making me think about having to play a game of making myself scarce to keep them on their toes.
    How is this supposed to work long tem?!

  87.  #87Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 7:19 am

    FW and Azure,
    I both agree and disagree. Taken in itself, it is just a comment about beer and soda, and it is not about the girl who has ordered it.
    At the same time, a man who is courting a woman, whould NEVER make a comment about the price of her drink. My two cents.
    I think it is the accumulation of minor things piling up… Death by duck bites, as they call it.

  88.  #88Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 7:24 am

    Your value has not dropped, but he is having cold feet, just like you are. He is a mirror, remember?
    Living togethe is a BIG DEAL it will be a dramatic change in your lives, I think it is only fair that you are both worried.
    At the same time, I think this is essential to live together if you have marriage on your mind, because unless you live together first, you will never see the trailor to that movie. It is all very good that you are finding out, in due course, what life with him will be really like, and it is so much better to figure it out before you get married.

  89.  #89Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 7:25 am

    “whould NEVER make a comment about the price of her drink.”

    Really!! That is a huge assumption to make. This guy has definitely courted Kim. He might be dropping his efforts now that commitment is there but he has definitely courted. It is also normal for any human being to drop the intensity a little bit. As Dominique says relationships ebbs and flows.

  90.  #90Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 7:30 am

    of course $$$ is a HUGE Trigger for
    alll of us… men and women…

    That would be a VERY scary conversation for me…
    I feel shame… because i am 63 and have NOTHING much in savings, no house… small amount in Social Security… i feel like a liability!!

    Spirit actually broached the subject…
    he is a VERY brave man…
    how brave is that!!!
    he asked me what is my retirement.. he told me his…
    because he wants to retire to Costa Rica

    It would have been a very good time to have
    ask a few questions… because I’m interested in learning some of his views on money…
    What I would like to learn to do…
    with open mind AND curiousity (wish I could spell)

    I will start practicing with everyone…

  91.  #91Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 7:40 am

    From your comments here, I am under the impression that you perceive the world very differently than I do. I am very pleased to know that alternative views exist, and I know they come from differing life experiences.
    Let me rephase then. In my own modest dating history I have never heard an interested man make a comment regarding the cost of food or drinks he was treating me to. I would personally feel extremely uncomfortable if the man I was dating brought up the price of the soda I ordered.

  92.  #92Kim on April 15, 2015 at 7:41 am

    87/88 I totally agree Victoria.
    While he was courting me, he would never have made such a comment…so he stopped courting me basically, because he now feels he ‘has’ me. Lol.
    And, yes, it is good to live together, and I see he is nervous too, hence the little rebellion lol…but, I do feel worried. We did have loose plans for the future but nothing is being mentioned anymore as he is now lost in the little details of trash cans, bike keys and such, all of which is just meaningless and resolved in less time than he has been waxing lyrical about it already.
    What if there is ever a ‘real’ problem.
    What if he never even intends on moving anything forward and thinks living in a 600ft studio is wonderful forever.
    And the same with all the other plans we talked about, like getting married, travelling, getting a little boat…I don’t see any of this happening in the next 5-10 years, at the rate we are going now, and this is not what I want.
    Life is too short to spend it waiting all the time.
    Hence I set myself a timeline…I am turning 40 late this year, and if nothing is moving by the time our 2nd year dating anniversary is coming up in summer, I intend to move back to europe, also to move on with MY life, my professional life/career etc.
    I owe it to me.
    This is final.

  93.  #93Kim on April 15, 2015 at 7:43 am

    91. I agree with you Victoria, and this is already the third time in three weeks, he never did it before. Sadly, I do perceive it as a little dig now, first time not so much…..
    It makes me feel like I am a little kid and was out of order ordering a sparkling water when the non-fizzy one would have been free.

  94.  #94Kim on April 15, 2015 at 7:46 am

    89 FW I do agree with you too, he has courted me! Plenty.
    I am just a little baffled as to why it stopped and am trying to analyse whether this is me and my actions..hm. Where have I stopped courting and respecting me, lately?

  95.  #95Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 7:49 am

    I loved your last question.
    So for me, it is “when have I started failing my plans for me”. Bingo.

  96.  #96Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Kim and Victoria…
    great questions…

    Question for Azure B
    Where have I stopped responding to ME, and started ignoring me? Not putting ME as a priority…

  97.  #97Lovergirl on April 15, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Silver Tongued Siren (56)-

    I read this message and feel that if someone sent it to me, it would feel accusatory. I know you are using feeling messages and it doesn’t seem that way to YOU, but carefully read back through it. A man reading this would feel blamed and also its a lot of words.

    I am not trying to be critical at all, because I almost sent S a similar feeling message the other day when I was on the plane. Thankfully I was in the air and couldn’t send it for awhile so I had a little bit of time to look it over.

    I had vented out my feelings in a text and not had the chance to hit send. Then, on a whim, I deleted it all and simply told him the much more vulnerable version. The truth- what was underneath all that, was that I was missing him terribly the whole time I was away in Chicago, that everything I did I was wishing he was there to share it with. I felt much better after sending him that, even though it was a little scary to admit.

  98.  #98Kim on April 15, 2015 at 8:14 am

    So as it happens, I only have a couple more hours of work. Instead of sitting home wondering, trying to find new ways to make money etc., I am going to go out for a walk this afternoon and will court me! Maybe treat myself to – yes – a club soda or ice coffee….something I never do…..and just take some of my work to a sunny cafe…yes, why not.
    More fun for me! That is my prescription! 🙂

  99.  #99Beloved on April 15, 2015 at 8:15 am

    85 Kim – “has my value dropped here?”

    I feel like you dropped your value when you agreed to move in together without there being definite plans for marriage. I do often wonder, if being married to MoM is what you really, truly want.

  100.  #100Lovergirl on April 15, 2015 at 8:20 am

    Kim (98)-

    I love this! You are feeling he is not cherishing you enough so cherish yourself and that may very well bring him in!

  101.  #101Millie on April 15, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Curvy Siren– how long did it take for him to come around?

  102.  #102Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Kim #98
    Loving this Action for YOU!!

  103.  #103Kim on April 15, 2015 at 8:47 am

    99 Beloved….good point…and I agree with the first sentence. The second, well, you know, I love him, but his hesitancy in life in general and the relationship/moving things along, has been what has been detrimental to the relationship, and often left me feeling flat and less loving and accepting, and in this instance, I can tell you, if he was 100% committing and wanting to make me his and genuinely wanted to marry me, I would say yes..but I am not getting that vibe, and that has indeed go me feeling ‘do I want this?’, because presumably, that is who he is….and hesitancy I think is incompatible with real true love. Some here might agree with me, but fear is for me the complete antidote of love….well, someone who takes three months to move out of a one bedroom apartment, or who needs almost two years to ask me for exclusivity, is definitely not someone who makes decisions, takes risks or has a fire in his arse, which is basically the one thing I am unsure how this works with me.
    And, just like so many things, I am not worried, and believe it will have a habit of resolving itself, especially with the deadline I set for myself. I am not going to wait forever for any man to make up his mind about what he wants, no matter how wonderful he is and no matter how much I love him, I have decided I owe it to me and my happiness to keep myself moving on if things are no happening….and things not happening or happening at the speed of molasses in permafrost, is the biggest problem I have with my man…and he knows this, yet, he sees no urgency.
    I kinda felt for the longest time, how *amazing* it is he even moves in with me, because he drags his feet about pretty much everything, even if it is just what to have for breakfast, everything is a big decision. Yet, after two years, what’s really so amazing about moving in together? If he wasn’t ready to go this step, there’d be no point to continue dating…with no progression…so I am trying to stay objective here, as I am not dealing with a child learning to read or something. I am dealing with a man who holds down a responsible job, moves towards 50, and has his head screwed on. And, if he wanted to do certain things, he would and he can….so….
    So in the end, these things have a habit of resolving themselves, I do not hinge my happiness on one particular man, I have learnt not to and I am much happier that way….unless he is able and willing to commit, and for me at this point in my life, it does mean marriage…so your point is moot, as it is not on offer, I do not need to ‘decide’ if he is my forever man, you know?!
    I could wrack my brains about this day in and day out and then, one day I get swept off my feet by another guy….lol…I mean, it is possible!
    The other thing, really, I know this ‘move-in’ as often been described by him as a ‘and then we will see’….as if, he needs to live together before deciding what’s next. In many ways I agree with it and in some ways I just want to puke, because again…it feels like test driving a car, and if something is not right with the car, well thank G*d he didn’t commit to buying it.
    Something about that makes me feel sad, like, I have lived with quite a few guys and from then on, nothing happened anymore in the relationship.
    I am not sure why I agreed to it once again, if I am perfectly honest.
    I am not a car for test driving, and while of course it suits me too, we do know each other and each other’s habits, I am not scared of moving along, but he is…and that has me feeling turned off and scared. lol
    While I respect he needs more time, that is exactly what makes me reconsider this relationship.
    It’s actually a catch 22

  104.  #104Kim on April 15, 2015 at 8:53 am

    And now, yes, I have agreed to move in with no definite future plans and no marriage on the table…and no security of any kind…and now I feel like I cheated myself.
    And, I believe this is why he moans about me having an expensive $2 soda…I know it sounds crazy, but, subconsciously he feels I have compromised myself and now I am not the prize anymore…this is how it looks to me.
    I know he loves me…this is not the point. The point is that he is now reacting to me letting myself down.
    So now, how do I turn this around when he is on the verge of moving in and I am just about to change my mind on it all and I can’t even chalk it all up to getting cold feet….uh oh!!!

  105.  #105victoria on April 15, 2015 at 9:23 am

    How about talk to him? Ask him what he thinks? If you can handle the truth, that is. The part which I find difficult to speak up is the one which says, and if you can’t give me what I want I will get it somewhere else. That is I keep telling him he is special and then it’s kind of uncomfortable to break the news that he is less so…

  106.  #106Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Kim I too agree with Beloved. I have asked some questions around it in the past which you did answer but still left me feeling it was a decision around convenience.

  107.  #107Kim on April 15, 2015 at 9:38 am

    yes Victoria…it is SO difficult to convey the fact that, hey, if I don’t get my needs met here, I am going to keep my options open…but the thing is, we HAVE to do that.
    Although Rori says that men are not dumb. they know that they only ‘have us’, when they put a ring on our finger. I believe her. I do not want to continually (and I have seen it on this blog to), suggest that men don’t get this.
    Men know this.
    The fact they don’t propose is because they are not ready, and we have to accept/respect that, which I do.
    Then the reverse is also true, we are not actually obliged to wait them out.
    We have already talked about all this.
    His views are somewhat not quite the same….he believes that a woman should be as committed in a relationship as she is in a marriage – I agree and disagree.
    It is different. To me it feels different to know a man wants to spend the rest of his life with me, or he commits to spending the here and now with me (which to me is not a commitment, deep down, it is a convenience and a commitment until we are fed up and not forever).
    We have talked about this. I do not want to bring it all up again, I am tired of that.
    I believe I made a mistake to agree to us moving in together, much of which was based on a logic progression of a relationship plus financial considerations….none of which right now justifies this for me.

  108.  #108Kim on April 15, 2015 at 9:40 am

    106..FW..this is exactly what I don’t want. Convenience.
    This is where this is headed..and it is probably really my own fault, yes.

  109.  #109Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Kim do you remember Rori’s story? She agreed to move in and when she thought he was going to propose he told her he was not ready. That was when she started cdating. Even while living with him. Maybe you should read what she wrote about this again.

  110.  #110Kim on April 15, 2015 at 9:47 am

    we have a lot of fun together, love each other’s company, all is great…BUT….if the truth be known, he is not sweeping me off my feet because he can’t get over himself, or doesn’t feel it, or maybe is still attached to the ex, whatever it is..I simply don’t know, but there has been a block from the beginning and although it sometimes feels as though it is no longer there, and we are in love, I don’t really want to move in with a man who isn’t sure that he even wants me…and needs to test drive this…it is just going to drive a wedge between us…especially if he is now acting up, about little things, being secretive etc.
    Maybe I should cancel the move-in, he hasn’t handed in his notice anyway (he preferred to pay his way out, and for me that was another indication that he couldn’t even commit to moving in..he still hasn’t 100%)….now I am thinking maybe it was a blessing in disguise.
    IDK. I need to sit with this for a while.
    I love him, but I don’t really feel like us moving together anymore….ugh.

  111.  #111CurvySiren10 on April 15, 2015 at 9:47 am

    Millie…initially, after zero contact for a while…a few weeks. But “really” coming back took many months and it was a very tentative situation for a while. It was not an easy time , but I stayed focused on ME and the other important things in my life, while staying open to rebuilding with him. Now things are amazing with us and have been for a few years. 🙂 I wish I could talk with you more about this off the blog, but not sure how to make that happen.

  112.  #112Kim on April 15, 2015 at 9:49 am

    109 FW, yes, this is another thing, I do remember this story….and bearing in mind that Rori’s husband already said he wanted to marry her, and then made a U-turn, scared me even more….if I am being honest.
    I should never have agreed to this…oh well.

  113.  #113Beloved on April 15, 2015 at 10:00 am

    Kim – I do wonder if his indecisiveness and dragging his feet is a reflection of where you might be indecisive and dragging your feet?

    I also trust that it will work itself out one way or another and I do believe you will make the right choices for yourself.

  114.  #114Kim on April 15, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Beloved, not really, because he is well known even amongst his friends for hesitancy and slowness, so I can’t really bring it back to me…I have thought about it, but I am the total opposite.
    Happy to jump into the deep end and dealing with the consequences later….mostly this is why my life has been pretty amazing and taken me all over the world, if I was like him, I’d have missed so many opportunities, I would kick myself.
    However, in one respect you are right…his hesitancy has inspired the same in me…I am naturally enthusiastic and used to really looooove being in love and shouting it out into the wide world and showing off my man/lover …
    With him, all that has been stifled by his hesitancy…I didn’t know for a year whether we even had a relationship..he said he ‘assumed’ we had. but he was never inspired to claim me, talk about it etc. in fact, he was still doing stuff for his ex and dropping me for it, for a while when we first began dating…..he can’t make decisions/let go/move forward.
    And now, yes, I am just the same….I have become unenthusiastic, dulled, shoulder shruggy and engaging in conversations about trash cans for way too long…I think it is time to stop being patient now.
    I am bored.

  115.  #115Kim on April 15, 2015 at 10:19 am

    So, no, I can’t bring it back to me, I have become a mirror of him actually….I feel stifled now…this is a man who has so many lovely qualities, but this is also a man who has taken a year to decide which new phone to purchase….by the time a new model came out he had to start all over again.
    You know, it is not easy loving someone who is on the fence about everything and anything….wanted to buy a house for years but never even started looking…
    it’s hard. I do love him, but it sometimes feels hard to have the patience of a saint….especially when you are a naturally impatient person like me.

  116.  #116Kim on April 15, 2015 at 10:21 am

    we are always late for everything, we have missed lots of things because of that…if we say we leave the house at 9am, it turns into midday….this is a turning point because I am about to decide whether I can live with so much waiting and delay in my life.
    I don’t believe that this man would ever propose to me. Maybe when we are in our 80’s?
    So in some respects I don’t need to worry LOL

  117.  #117Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 10:23 am

    Kim I just want to ask this question. Have you considered working on yourself to develop patience? If you do have kids you will have to exercise a lot of that. Maybe it is one of the things he is helping you learn about yourself? What if you consider this a learning relationship?

  118.  #118Kim on April 15, 2015 at 10:30 am

    Obviously in other ways he is the most wonderful boyfriend….else I wouldn’t be with him and love him.
    Somebody said to me the other day that every relationship has a reason and some are not meant to go the distance, so who knows….I am at peace with whatever happens really.
    C’est la vie!

  119.  #119Kim on April 15, 2015 at 10:32 am

    117 FW, this is exactly what I have tried to do.
    Trust me, 10 years ago, he certainly wouldn’t have made it past the third date with me. I don’t know if this is a good or a bad thing, but I have become a lot more patient.
    Still, I can not negate me and my personality, and you know, I get things done…and never miss/pass up on an opportunity, and I do not want to lose that aspect of me, in order to shape up to ‘lameness’.

  120.  #120Indigo on April 15, 2015 at 10:32 am

    If a man made a comment about how much my club soda cost I would ignore it totally. I would just lean back in my chair, drink my club soda and assume that the price of the club soda is his thing to work out. To be honest I’ve heard men say things like this when it’s not even what they really mean, and giving attention to it is the last thing you should do. I might even say something like “Aw, thank you so much for paying for it”. In fact, I do this on a regular basis. Because whatever their little comments about it, for me the important thing is that they are being a man and paying for it and I appreciate it.

    Kim, I too find it worrying that he is taking months to move out of his apartment and sweating the small stuff, and I agree with FW and Beloved, I have sometimes wondered if being with MoM for life is what you really want.

  121.  #121Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 10:38 am

    Kim I do believe sometimes we attract our opposites to help balance ourselves out. You attracted him into your life for a reason. Question is what is the lesson here?

  122.  #122Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 10:44 am

    Indigo/Kim your comments remind me about Carol Allen who teaches we come kinda from the shop with our personalities loaded. Some people and if I remember correctly, those whose sign is the wind are the ones who hem and haw about decisions. It is just their process. Their way of being in the world that has helped them and that is familiar with them. I have a brother who is like that. I had a boss who is like that so I do know it can be maddening. I can tell you though that that boss is a sweetheart. He totally takes care of his wife. There are times when she has to take charge and he will totally tell anyone that he is in his feminine side a lot but I can tell you he is one of the greatest sweethearts I have met on the planet. When his wife used to travel, whenever she was around he would lose sleep and wear himself down just to connect with her though he used to tell me at times that he couldn’t wait for her to leave. Now that she is here permanently things settled and I don’t hear him talking like that but I can tell you they get along phenomenally though she seems to be the lead in decision making and he definitely leans on her.

  123.  #123Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 10:49 am

    My brothers wife is always late for everything. She was 2 hours late for the wedding. After 20 years it still one of the things they tussle about. The have worked things out through using 2 cars and in other ways.

    Sometimes it is about finding out who each person is and finding a way between you to see how things can work for both. Especially if this is someone you love and really want to be with. This little bumps in road and tried as just that. Bumps in the road.

  124.  #124Femininewoman on April 15, 2015 at 11:14 am

    I know what you mean Indigo. I have done it to one who suggested that I fill his tank. I took it as him totally joking without getting righteously indignant. I just ignored it.

  125.  #125Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 11:22 am

    Indigo & FeminineW
    Spirit has made a comment about the price of my wine… I smiled sweetly and said… this is wonderfully excellent wine… thank you.. and I too ignored any comment about the price…
    Rori taught me well… :-))

  126.  #126victoria on April 15, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Azure, Indigo
    I date a man who makes times less than what I do and I keep trying to pay but he would never let me. I try to order very modestly and he keeps trying to order more things for me. I have never heard any of the men I dated ever note the cost but if anyone had I would have probably paid the whole bill behind his back … This is the only thing that comes to my mind. I never want to inconvenience anyone… I am truly amazed by how you handle this.

  127.  #127victoria on April 15, 2015 at 11:43 am

    By the way, on lateness.. my notoriously late F. is also the sweetest man on earth. Really sweet and soft spoken. And terribly bad planner and slightly on the feminine side.

  128.  #128Millie on April 15, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Curvy Siren- we can talk off the blog. How does emailing sound to you?

  129.  #129CurvySiren10 on April 15, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    That’d be great Millie, I just don’t want to post my email on here because my actual name is in it 🙂 Any ideas? 🙂

  130.  #130Millie on April 15, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Curvy siren— I just made a new email address for privacy. It is sirenmillie@gmail.com
    Feel free to email me there

  131.  #131Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    victoria #126
    Ohhh… BR -(before Rori)
    I used to pay for dinners… even though I was a single parent and made far less than they did.. or offer to pay half or leave the tip…
    But Rori showed me how men really do like to take care of these things… It was a learning curve…
    BUT I’ve got this one down! :-))

  132.  #132Kim on April 15, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    127 Victoria, I’d say we were dating the same guy but mine is not a doctor….and luckily so, I am just imagining if he was a surgeon his operations would go on for days…lol.

  133.  #133Kim on April 15, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    Yes, FW…hmmmm….yes to opposites being a lesson…and a possibility for change and to adapt.
    In this case I suspect he draws a lot of things out….due to commitment phobia. I have that too so I can hardly complain.
    You know, for some things he is imoeccably on time, for example with his friends or sports…he would never inconvenience them. I have on occasion been sitting home and he comes over an hour late as if it is nothing, dinner frazzled…lol…it’s ok the first couple of times…but not ok when it happens all the time, which it kinda does.

  134.  #134Kim on April 15, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    You know Indigo, about the club sode, if I am at any point being made to feel uncomfortable about this kinda thing, and he knows how frugal I am, then I would pay for it myself and have the greatest pleasure in doing so. Cause I think I am worth it.

    As to the other thing, well who’s to say who is right for whom…I am just taking it as it comes and I can tell you not being stuck on a man feels a whole lot better than being stuck on a man and having to have him for any price…no, I don’t have to have him, or any man, for any price at all…..I see who comes towards me, with whom I have a connection, and how it goes and whether they step up – or not.
    I am stuck on my happiness and not a man and I am open to being happy with him or anyone whom I happen to fall in love with and who wants to make me his.
    I learnt that lesson well enough, amd I wouldn’t go backwards and try to fit a square peg into a round hole in the name of love ever again…..so, whatever happens I am good with it 🙂

  135.  #135Kim on April 15, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Meaning if it’s not him, it’s someone else….I am open to everyhing and anything…it feels healthy to me.

  136.  #136victoria on April 15, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    lol for us dating the same man.
    You know the doctor is fantastic with his patients. He gets lots of love and admiration at work, and patience / patients 🙂 so he has been spoilt. He is so not used to someone being demanding with him. But he is also a Libra and so difficult with decision s I just wonder how he manages to prescribe any treatment

  137.  #137Kim on April 15, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Let me just clarify one thing also….I come here to vent so I let off steam before I am tempted to let off steam at him.
    He is my best friend, caring, sweet, an amazing bf 99% of the time, and when I read the stories here I can tell you that most women would lick their ten fingers for a man like that….and I can tell you that I do not put up with much anymore. So he has to be an amazing guy.
    Frankly, my issue is that I have had plenty of long term live-in relationships that turned into nothing.
    I wanted to try something else…and this has made me fussy and picky..for example, my guy is not your typical alpha step up man….he is in masculine energy most of the time NOW…but not all of the time, and he quite often insists on his feelings having to be cherished….fine….but I want to be the woman.
    It triggers me that he seems to only ever take action when facing the threat of losing me whether to another man or other circumstances, and no I don’t play with that or give him ultimatums, I would never.
    However, I am fussy now. I want my feelings to be cherished, I want an open amd honest relationship with no ex in the picture and most of all I want a man who is enthusiastic about me and the relationship…and has some kind of manly dynamic going on to take care of me, my body and my soul.
    Meanwhile, my guy is too busy with himself a lot….to illustrate this, he is frequently having check ups and his health is very important to him, I like that a lot.
    He knows that I have no health insurance and that I haven’t been to a doctor in years…but somehow, that totally bypasses him….or he will say he has to think about that sometimes.
    He really doesn’t have that whole future planning/ wanting to take care of my woman etc thing going on…but he himself, when he cuts his thumb…it’s like he might die. So basically, a lot of this is about him being about him and his needs…and having his cake and eating it too, and not realising that it puts me into an impossible situation. I want to be with him, I really do, but if he doesn’t step up I have no hesitation in leaving…because I want my feelings cherished and I want to have a future plan and a man who can make decisions for us, and in the end this is so important for me, it is almost more important than ‘love’ because for me, love grows from feeling safe, wanted and secure and taken care of with a man and I don’t mean it financially, I mean spiritually and body and soul.
    If that isn’t there, then no love in the world and no wonderful quality is going to keep me there.

  138.  #138Labbit on April 15, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    65 Victoria — I was thinking more about my list of things I do to show TenderCD that he is wanted and needed last night, too.

    I thought of a couple of more things, a little less tangible than my first list.

    – If he calls before leaving work and asks if I need anything from the store because he’s stopping there on his way home, I nearly always ask him to get me something, because I know it makes him feel good. I’ll ask him to get me something simple, like maybe some ice cream or a ripe avocado or brussels sprouts from the grocery, or shampoo from the drugstore, and then I’ll make a big deal about using it that evening, loving it, and fussing over how awesome he did at getting the item for me. He LOVES this. I haven’t done this in awhile and need to start back up with it…

    – Or if he OFFERS to do something, like make dinner that night, or help me carry something, or take me out somewhere, or let me wear his coat over my shoulders on a chilly evening, I try to say yes almost 100% of the time, even if at first I’m not sure I want it, because I do ALWAYS want him to feel like I appreciate him giving to me. I find that usually once we start the activity or whatever I’m very happy we did it, or that he did it for me. And I find that often these little gestures are confidence builders for him working up to asking me a bigger question. Like the first time he asked me if I wanted to wear his coat over my shoulders, later that evening was when he asked if I would live with him if he bought a new apartment.

    By the way, on stopping at the store for me, he didn’t use to ask me if I needed anything. I started casually slipping it in when we were dating. He’d call from work and say he was on his way to our date, and I’d say “Oh! If you’re passing by x store would you stop in and grab me [something]?” And he’d do it. Formed the habit. Now he asks on his own, probably more than half the time. It’s great!

  139.  #139Labbit on April 15, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Zia I know I am several days late on this but I’m still catching up on previous threads…CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT!!! I feel thrilled for you Siren and I can’t wait to hear more about how your journey unfolds…

  140.  #140Dominique on April 15, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Kath – 64 – I’m sorry this article stirred up so much in you, yet it’s also a good thing – reminders, lessons.

    Going forward though, something to keep close is this – safety can take time to grow, especially if you have any kind of abandonment issues which many of us do. BUT there will be at least a modicum of it with a good man, the one for you, from the beginning. And the rest you will sense if not know is your stuff. With time and patience as well as lots of love on you, the fears ease, and feelings of safety will grow.

    Love to you.


  141.  #141Labbit on April 15, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Kim I do wonder if it might be time to have a chat with MoM about whatever the biggest issues of concern are. It seems like maybe one or two major issues that are like the elephant in the room are now leaking out and tarnishing many interactions with him. You’re in a committed relationship with him and at a crucial point that’s a true test of communication skills. I have struggled with this myself, and found very little written about it by the relationship experts I trust.

    Part of it is about choosing which battles are worth bringing up and which are worth compromising on or letting go. In many cases I’ve found that TenderCD had no idea that things that were bothering me were issues at all.

    For instance, TenderCD and I don’t officially live together yet, and I’ve made it clear that I won’t before we’re engaged, but somehow we’re staying at each other’s places 5 or 6 nights a week. Now he’s getting ready to list his condo for sale since our new apartment is coming along, so he’s planning to stay at my place more often. One of the chores I’ve picked up is grocery shopping for both of us. It’s my pleasure to do it, and if I’m super busy we live in a city where I can order them online and get them delivered.

    Anyway, now that I’m buying for two the grocery bill is much bigger. Especially since he’s an athlete who consumes about 4,500 calories a day. The groceries cost triple what they used to cost me on my own. When Tender and I were dating I would buy groceries to cook one meal and that wasn’t a big deal to me because he was taking me out 80% of the time and paying for those dates. But now, we’re eating in a lot more and all of a sudden I’m shelling out the majority of the food money. TenderCD has picked up other things, like my rent. Still, he makes three times what I do and I can’t always afford to pay this much for groceries.

    I had to talk to him about it, and I was very nervous about doing so. It took me almost two weeks to find the right words…at first I could only come up with angry things to say (I feel so poor! Why aren’t you paying for YOUR food like you did before we went exclusive?!?) or upset things. Then I moved into not being able to say it without ordering him around (I want you to pay for the groceries…it would feel good if you paid for the groceries.)

    FINALLY I landed on what I really wanted to say. I realized what I was truly feeling inside. I asked him if it was a good time to talk one evening and he said yes. I said something like, I feel embarrassed even bringing this up, but I need your help figuring out what to do about the groceries. I’m happy to do our grocery shopping — I enjoy it and I feel great doing it! However, the total amount we spend together is more than what my budget allows for. I don’t feel good worrying about whether I have enough money in my spending account to buy our food. What do you think we should do about this?

    And he immediately snapped into action — OMG, I didn’t even realize this was an issue, yes of course let’s solve this right now. We ended up agreeing to create a shared spending account. Every two weeks I deposit a certain amount and TenderCD deposits triple that. We can use that account for anything household related — food, cleaning stuff, dog food, etc. We still keep our own separate bank accounts beyond this.

    Once I hit on my own embarrassment at the situation and not being able to handle it myself, it was so easy to talk to Tender. I wonder if perhaps it would help you to sit with your feelings a bit, hit on what you’re really feeling, and then ask him to help you come up with a solution?

  142.  #142Labbit on April 15, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    I know these conversations are not easy to have and it hardly ever feels like the right time inside of us, but I have learned that men often assume that the status quo is fine so it’s up to us to be brave and express ourselves, keeping that communication line open so they can make us happy.

  143.  #143Dominique on April 15, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Labbit – PERFECT script. You’re awesome!!! And look how amazingly it all turned out.


  144.  #144Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Labbitt #141
    Ahhhh… this is soooo warm and compassionate
    feels like a warm, soft, pink
    cashmere blanket allll wrapped around me..
    Thank you for sharing this

  145.  #145Kim on April 15, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Labbit that’s lovely!
    I love that.
    In my case, I guess I don’t post here much…my man avoids a lot of the talking…we have kinda gone over those things already, you know? Some of them numerous times….and he will say that he’s got it…BUT..
    Nothing changes.
    Now, he is very generous generally, but also, yes he makes very good money while I make a pittance lol…and he knows this also…moving in with me will save him at least 1k a month, and I have already said that if he pays the bills which is very little, we can split the other costs as and when I am able to contribute…to me it is important to be my own woman and contribute a little as and when I can….but now, well,
    IDK….I do feel a little silly, because even if he paid for all the groceries, he would still be a LOT better off living with me than he was before….
    Anyway, the other stuff we talked about ad nauseum – the commitment part…it boils down to him stepping up or not now….and I m not invested in any outcome, seriously, I just feel bored with the situation as is.
    I should perhaps have set the engagement boundary too, but I always like to be a bit fluid around those things, and I guess it backfired on me.
    Eh, whatever…I feel better just having been able to vent.
    All will be good.
    All is well.

  146.  #146Kim on April 15, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    138 Labbit I love that too….and I have to get better at this because usually I try and do everything myself….but I feel good when I get help, and he feels good when he can help, so yeah!! Love, love, love

  147.  #147Zia on April 15, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    Girls I tell you what. It feels VERY weird to be planning a wedding where *I* am the bride. I have been a bridesmaid 5 times, so I have been involved in the planning of many weddings…… always with that feeling of “one day maybe” and I’d think about weddings in a hypothetical or “what if” sense. This time it is *real*. How does it get any better than that? 🙂

  148.  #148Zia on April 15, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    I am finding myself shutting down constantly at the thought of a wedding and being engaged. It is really interesting to note. I am practising being open, unzippering my heart. So many years of “will it ever be my turn” has lead to me being closed down to the idea, even though its what I have always wanted. I am finding with this new chapter I am going back to the tools, working on breathing through my feelings, being OPEN to everything and everyone, allowing myself to feel scared and joyful and unsure and happy. It is interesting how even when we get what we want, we are still on a journey. There is no “end game”.

  149.  #149Beloved on April 15, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Kim – I can’t speak for anyone else, and, nothing you’ve said about MoM comes across to me as him being a bad guy. I feel so interested in your process and what you are sharing and am looking forward to hearing more about it as it progresses 🙂

  150.  #150Kim on April 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    ((Zia)) congratulations and, I hear you…I think this is normal…I am 40 this year and never even been engaged..I have been to so many weddings, and although I would be totally excited about getting married, at this point it would terrify me too…ha!
    All will be well, more than that, all will be amazingly fantastic…<3

  151.  #151Kim on April 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    Beloved, thank you….all will be revealed in the nick of time 🙂

  152.  #152Senior Lady Vibe on April 15, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    @90: Azure says:
    “…I feel shame… because i am 63 and have NOTHING much in savings, no house… small amount in Social Security… i feel like a liability!!…”

    You have gorgeous YOU, and TIME (if you’ve ‘retired’ or soon to be) and even if you’re working on a JOB your children are probably all grown up so you still have TIME and that is a big, HUGE asset!

    Get creative.

    Find a sweetie who wants to throw in his lot with you.

    Go for it! Costa Rica or any place you choose.


  153.  #153Senior Lady Vibe on April 15, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    I thought I’d mention it’s “Anything Can Happen Day”… for those of us who still have ‘ears.’


  154.  #154Lovergirl on April 15, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    Well, Mr. Chicago has proven himself to be untrustworthy. That’s okay though. I will probably still just enjoy the dates and trips for a little bit, why not?

    I was at his house a little bit ago and spied a BRA lying on the floor. When he walked out of the room I picked it up and tossed it on a pile of laundry. I didn’t say a word about it.

    A little bit later, we were lying there and he starts talking about how he “trusts” me that I would tell him if I were going to sleep with any other men. Oh yeah, sure, like you told me…. He said he would do the same (but didn’t tell me about whose bra that was).

    Well, I guess he COULD be a crossdresser, but…

    I don’t feel near so guilty about not being sure I want a relationship with him now though.

  155.  #155Azure Blu on April 15, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    Senior Lady V
    thank you for your encouragment!!!
    Most of the time i feel pretty special…
    but then all of a sudden confused voices hit me and
    I take my little girl and sit her on my lap
    and hold her and ask her what is upsetting her today…

  156.  #156Indigo on April 15, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Victoria 126,

    I never order extravagantly, and like Azure Blu said, at some point I realised that men love to take care of these things, whatever they say about it. Even my dad, who is about the stingiest person with money you could ever hope to meet, always insists on picking up the bill if we meet for a coffee or lunch.

    I remember offering to pay the first couple of times D and I went out, and he eventually told me that while he appreciated the thought, it annoyed him. So I have really got it into my bones that men enjoy taking care of this. So I would not let any little complaints from them sink in.

  157.  #157RileyTheOwl on April 15, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    It feels good to have logged off, leaned back, given myself the space that I need to breath.
    Whew! It feels very exhausting for me, to talk with him on social media. I find myself going into a frenzy on what to say. I need space to breathe. I have NO IDEA what to say, I have trouble calming down when I hear from him, so it’s hard to get in touch with myself. K, well, I just logged off FB (where he was messaging me.. asking me about my puppy… he told me he wants to meet her).

    I’m not sure about seeing him in person yet.
    I feel scared about how it will go.
    I feel nervous I’ll say something wrong.
    Riley! Oh, there is no such thing as messing it up. I don’t want to watch my words, I can say whatever I feel and be true to myself. I TRUST myself to LISTEN to my heart. My heart will guide me to what is best for me.

  158.  #158Indigo on April 15, 2015 at 9:12 pm


    I love this discussion you’re having around how to make your man feel needed. I realise all men need this.

    Just to add my thoughts, I think men love to feel needed in the way that they love to give. So I try to go “with” the way they like giving, if that makes sense. In D’s case, he likes paying for everything. Whether it’s the groceries or my takeaway dinner, he likes to give me his wallet or to pay for it and I try to graciously accept, because this is his way. He’s excellent with computers too, I’ve never known anyone better, so I am sure to bring anything technology related to him. No matter how small it is, he likes to be able to find a solution and enjoys giving in this way so I always come to him for things like this. In fact, he ASKS if there’s anything he can do. He loves to fix me tea and drinks and dinner as well – half the time I say no, but thank you for the reminder that I should just accept as it makes him feel good.

    He’s not the greatest conversationalist when it comes to problems (like many men), which frustrates me because I sometimes just want someone to TALK to about what’s going on, but he does like to be part of the solution. Today for instance, I had a really bad day. I went to the dentist yesterday to have a wisdom tooth removed, and he did not get all of it so I have been in worlds of pain. Distracted by this, I nicked my car on one of the poles in the parking lot as I was reversing out of work and took off my indicator light and part of my bumper. I’ve just started a new job so I felt additionally stressed out by the time I’d need to take out to sort out these problems. And cash is tight too.

    Honestly I just felt overwhelmed, tired and ANGRY that I was having to deal with these things alone. I reached out to D which I normally wouldn’t have done and told him what had happened and expressed my feelings of overwhelm. He was so sweet (in his own way), asking me to come over, fixing me a drink and reassuring me about all these things and that he’d help with taking me places wherever needed. I think I’ll take him up on this. And then he was so sweet, cuddling me and fetching me painkillers and some liquer to wash it down to increase the effect. He told me that he was not the best shoulder to cry on but that he wanted to help me solve the problems. He also gave me a pep talk about needing to make some close girlfriends so I have someone to talk to and confide in.

    It was all done in his very D-like way and I appreciated it when I could see this.

  159.  #159RileyTheOwl on April 15, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    Woah, I wasn’t expecting this…
    he said he had butterflies in his stomach before sending me a message, but overcoming them is worth getting to talk to me.

    Woah, I feel really touched. I feel like this little compliment has me all filled up and powerful again. There’s the sign to me that he DOES care about me. I am grateful for this, and I am going to carry it with me in my healing.

  160.  #160Lovergirl on April 15, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    Indigo (158)-

    That all sounds very sweet of D and I think similar to how a lot of men enjoy caring for a woman. S has always liked to take me out and pay and sometimes will take me to the store with him and ask me if I need anything. He will buy whatever I ask for, usually just little things like some allergy medicine or razor blades or shampoo or something but it seems to make him feel good to offer.

    I’ve always loved when he did little things like make the bed up for me when I spent the night or made sure I was warm and covered up with blankets. I never asked for any of that but was always appreciative. He would give me his coat or a sweatshirt to keep me warm if I looked cold too. I think men usually love seeing us in their clothes like that. S gave me a sweatshirt of his to keep after my first miscarriage when I was crying and upset. I love that thing and wear it when I am sad sometimes and missing him. It feels like a big comforting hug.

    He also would sometimes make me a little plate of food, like some sliced apples or bananas and grapes and cheese and crackers. He’s not one to cook much, but occasionally he would do stuff like that. The other thing he liked to do occasionally was feed me, like get some ice cream and feed it to me, lol. It always seemed kind of silly but other men have tried to do it too, like Mr. Chicago wanted to feed me strawberries. It reminds me of feeding a baby and maybe somehow that pulls out their nurturing instinct.

    I so miss him already. 🙁 It’s only been one day. I just can’t imagine my life without him.

  161.  #161Victoria on April 15, 2015 at 11:28 pm

    Indigo 156,
    I am not sure men enjoy paying for dates. The ones who have been courting me have always seemed enthusiastic to do it, but I make no assumtion (thanks FW :-)) that it is just because to give is even better than to receive :-). I was reading EMK for a while, and practially ALL male posters there say men hate paying for dates but they do it because it is effective in the process of soliciting the lady’s graces.
    I think I am in an odd position, on top of everything else, because most men I have dated in my adult life make less money than me. It is nice to be treated and all, but I am both flattered and feeling it is kind of unfair for them to pay all the time… but I know better than to try to bring justice in, I do not want to emasculate them, it is probably painful enough just knowing me, lol.
    By the way, I am so sorry to hear about your wisdom toouth. I had one extracted in January (4 hour operation) and was in agony in over two weeks after that). Probably the worst period in my life. Painkillers were mostly ineffective, the only thing that made me feel better was heavy cardio/the gym/running. Hope you don’t mind me prescibing this again, but really our brain has the capacity to produce its own painkillers, in strenuous training, and of course in s*x, you might want to mention this amazing “homeopatic” method to D 🙂

  162.  #162Indigo on April 16, 2015 at 12:29 am


    I appreciate the sympathy, thank you very much 🙂 As I sit here I am in agony, the painkiller and liquer which worked last night has had no effect this morning. The dentist has said he can see me at 10, and I am counting down the minutes. D has asked me to tell him what he can do to help and maybe I will suggest your suggestion to him since it seems like I’m going to be able to get myself to the dentist and my car to the shop.

    As far as men paying for dates, yes I completely see what you are saying. Maybe “enjoy” is a strong word, but they certainly do seem to enjoy the respect and the appreciation and the pleasure that we show as a result. I always make sure to show appreciation in the most feminine, sweet way I know how. In D’s case however he’s not really trying to win my approval but I think he just enjoys making things easier for me and providing in that way. It’s also a fairness thing since I put myself through a lot of schlep driving over to his house/packing my things etc. He also earns easily 8 or 9 times what I do, so I think this is part of his generosity maybe, which I do love. I love that we don’t argue about money and that there’s no tension in this area at all. He has the means to pay for the little things and he trusts me not to take advantage.

  163.  #163Mandy on April 16, 2015 at 12:58 am


    Sorry I left you hanging back there! I’ve been so “BLAH” recently I’ve only just crawled back out of my cave from licking my wounds!

    I have an important question for any Sirens who have some insight and wants to share…

    I feel VERY confused about a prospective job…speaking of having it all!!!

    I gotta be honest, I was offered a job as a “web performer” …Just to “talk”. Apparently there’s a market for just chatting with men. Some women sit there fully dressed throughout the entire conversation. I am fine being a photography model, no problem, I even do artistic, tasteful nudes. But I wouldn’t do anything besides sit and look pretty for anyone. That’s what my female friend and her employer said can be done, and I almost took it as Circular Dating for pay.

    I am very much not sure how to feel about it. I just got an interview and thought it couldn’t hurt, I told everyone who asked I wouldn’t perform sexually.

    Rori once said in Love Scripts something along the lines of…who knows what you’d want to do in your spare time, when you realize you have that space and time to fill with whatever you want…maybe you want to become a stripper…. I was okay hearing that, my grandma had once told me that even dancers are okay people. My dad once told me the opposite…that he didn’t want to see the light in my eyes “go out”, like how it does with some women who are traumatized by dancing or something like it, somehow. I also read an article of where an actual sex performer on webcam had the “juicines” connection COMPLETELY severed inside her, she stopped feeling good when men told her she was attractive, etc. Don’t want that to happen. I know someone it has happened to on account of being a sex addict before. *Ahem!* Yes…indeed. It can JACK you up if you realize one day you were acting under an influence, be it sexual arousal or heck, even feeling powerless or self-pity, and then you feel like just this body that has been everywhere, seen by everyone, touched by everyone, like everyone in the whole world is taking something from you. I model because it makes me feel great, I love doing it, I am good at it and I find the whole process fascinating and exciting, not only that but the people I’ve worked with have been very professional…they do not make gestures that would make me feel weird.

    With this, I could master the art of conversation and let go of the fear of Circular Dating. I could take it as an opportunity to use the Siren tools to assert boundaries, to keep them interested in the conversation and also sort of express a part of myself i haven’t been able to in a long time and I see nothing wrong with that.

    But if someone pressures me into something i don’t want to do, then I’m freaking out of there so fast it will make their heads spin. Bye bye. My self-respect and my will and boundaries are worth more than $600 a week, believe it or not.

    Is that wrong or is that a nasty voice in my head saying it’s the way I was raised to feel guilty about having any interest in something like that…?

    I feel like I’m asking my mom for permission or something, but it’s not in a bad way feeling that way, it’s in trust. What does everyone think of that? I must pause here and ask…this is very important to me.

  164.  #164Victoria on April 16, 2015 at 1:13 am

    By the time you read this you will probably back from the dentist, and will hopefully be much better.
    I remember now that my dentist put something on the wound (the latin name is clavus oil – unfortunately I do not know the English word) which gives instant relief, unfortunately they can not give it to you the first day but only after the wound is a bit healed/closed. It works like magic and is good for at least 6-7 hours.
    The key is also not to eat anything that can get into the wound. For me, when I had the most terrible pain, he took small pieces of parsley from the wound and turns up theyr were killing me. Unfortunately, he never warned me before that! So, my advice is, stay away from salads, parsley and pretty much any non-liquid food, to allow the wound to heal. Hugs to you!

  165.  #165Indigo on April 16, 2015 at 3:55 am


    Thank you so much! I am home from the dentist, the anaesthetic has worn off (seems a small shard of bone detached and was sticking into my gum from where they took the tooth out hence the agony but has all been removed and sorted now) and I am curled up waiting for the painkiller to kick in. The drive home was horrid, I wish now I’d asked D to come & fetch me but oh well the thing is done. I bought a croissant as a treat rather hopefully but I can see now there is no way I’m going to be able to eat it.

    Thank you for the hugs! It’s yoghurt & milkshake for me! X

  166.  #166Kim on April 16, 2015 at 5:13 am

    Oh no Indigo and Victoria….I have a dentist phobia..only thinking about having a wisdom tooth out makes me want to hide in a closet!! Lol.
    Hope the pain subsided!

  167.  #167Victoria on April 16, 2015 at 5:19 am

    Luckily, the brain has no memory of the pain :-). I mean, once it passes, you remember that it hurt, but you don’t experience it again, thank God. It is not like when you had a fight with your boyfriend and and every time you remember the stupid things he said, you want to kill him again 🙂

    How have you been?

  168.  #168Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Ohhh… my goodness… the wisdom tooth extraction PLUS a bone shard…
    I’m glad to hear they found it and you made it home safely…
    feel better soon darling Siren…

  169.  #169Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 6:06 am

    I am loving reading about the different ways men feel needed!!!

    I struggle with this as I have been single for soooooo long…
    Spirit will always say… do you NEED me for that? and get all soft and cuddly when I say yes…

    HE loves having the bartender set a glass of my favorite wine waiting on the bar when we meet for drinks and dinner…It is sooo romantic…
    Lately I have not been telling him how good i feel when he does this…
    how romantic it feels…
    how cared for I feel…
    little things that I am sure he would love to hear…

  170.  #170Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 6:08 am

    RileyTO #159
    soooo glad you heard from C…and he was able to express his hurting heart…
    nice….. oxoxox

  171.  #171Indigo on April 16, 2015 at 6:58 am

    Kim – thank you 🙂 Luckily I had a compassionate dentist.

    Azure Blu – thank you so much 🙂 whilst still under the effect of the anaesthetic I even managed to get my car partly sorted out but so glad I didn’t go into work. I am sitting at home in a comfy T-shirt wrapped in a sleeping bag and waiting for D to get home and I feel glad I didn’t put myself through any more today.

    It is very sweet of Spirit to have your favourite wine waiting for you when you go out… I imagine you could show your appreciation with a big smile and melting and wouldn’t necessarily need to say much. Did he say whether his daughter will ever be able to move out?

  172.  #172Kim on April 16, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Victoria thanks for making me laugh again…lol…I am ok thank you. I really decided to take some space here…he doesn’t really understand why, onviously, but I need some space to think….

  173.  #173Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Indigo… #171
    Ahhh… you sound very comfy in your sleeping bag…

    Spirit’s daughter has a new job… she’s a nurse..
    at the VA hospital here in town…

    I have no idea of course…
    but I’m wondering if some of what he is experiencing with his daughter is simply
    2 people living in tight quarters…
    one of which is a young woman with a mental issue…
    I know my son and I have had our run ins over the years when we live together

    especially when both of them weren’t working…
    Now that they can both be out of the house more…
    him working, golfing and her working…
    I have expressed this with him… he reassures me it is MUCH more than that…
    also he is constantly pushing his religious fervour on her…
    If she finds this overpowering – which most people do – I’m sure that would cause MUCH tension…

    I know he is hoping she will be able to move out… when she had a job in the fall he had started looking for a car for her…
    She lost that job… erratic behavior – had gotten off her meds

    I have mentioned several times this is a lifelong illness…
    I have to look closely at that also…

    I am feeling disappointed at the response (2 days) from Spirit about keeping in closer contact…
    fortunately because of MY timeline restrictions (4 more weeks) I will sit tight and let him take action OR NOT…. be surprised….
    I need to look at alllll of the good things going on with him…
    meeting my family
    calling me his girlfriend
    reassuring me he is Serious about us
    talking about OUR retirement

    He has a deep fear of being controlled (I guess we all do)…
    because of Rori my deep fear of being abandoned
    it is getting better…!!! Yay!!!
    I too have issues of being controlled
    I guess i’m just rambling…
    Me wanting to feel closer to Spirit by being in contact text, phone and seeing each other…
    trying to keep an open heart
    but wanting to prepare if this doesn’t fit into what I want for me… protect MY heart…

  174.  #174Beloved on April 16, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Here’s a perfect example of acting in a way that confirms negative beliefs:
    RoomieJ doesn’t feel like it’s okay to be anything but nice.
    RoomieJ feels angry with me about something. Hangs out with me in the kitchen and pretends she’s ok. I feel the strain, I know something isn’t ok, and I don’t want to ask because it’s midnight and I don’t feel up for an emotional conversation, I already feel drained.
    RoomieJ is home all day, in the next room, feeling angry…and waits until after I leave the house at 1 and sitting at my desk at school about to take a test, to text me that she’s really PO’d at me.
    I tell her I feel PO’d, too, now, that she didn’t bring it up while I was home, we can talk about it later, I don’t want any more texts about it. I TELL her, I am sitting in class just about to take a test (I use my phone during class for recording and calculations, turning it off wasn’t an option).
    Then I get a flurry of more texts about it. On and on and ON about how nice she is and I’m overreacting and she better stop texting now before she says something she can’t take back because she is so NICE.
    Meanwhile, I feel FURIOUS, I tell her, no more texts, this is a hard boundary, I will block her if she continues. I decide to just turn my phone over and do without and focus on class.
    Later, MORE texts about how nice she is and now *I* should REALLY be sorry about I don’t know what.
    So, I blocked her texts. I am not available to her by text anymore as I felt disrespected and violated when she continued to text after I told her to stop and also told her I would make time to talk to her later in person and I am IN CLASS ABOUT TO TAKE A FREAKING TEST.

    Now I feel totally drained and beat up by feeling so triggered and how soon do you think it will be before we talk again, ever?? I was totally feeling open and soft and willing and now…I feel like I just need to go within and take care of myself and detach.

  175.  #175Beloved on April 16, 2015 at 11:49 am

    Ha, I just realized how I possibly invited this dynamic internally…interesting….interesting…Hmm..okay I feel a better sense of what to address at least in my own mind. It’s a shadowy part of my feminine energy that feels very excited and turned on by having my “stop this” ignored…I felt a huge adrenalin rush after she kept texting, that felt so intense I went outside to jump up and down.
    It doesn’t feel right to get to analytical about it, though.
    I will sit with this for a bit, though, and feel what surfaces.

  176.  #176Labbit on April 16, 2015 at 11:53 am


    Ugh, I had a roommate in my sorority house who was just like this in college. Super passive aggressive, would hardly ever confront you to your face, acted very meek and girly. All of this was designed (not purposely, I’m sure that’s what she learned growing up) to make anyone but her look like the crazy, emotional one in any conflict. Thus, she gets her way about 90% of the time even though everyone else involved feels pretty horrible about it.

    I’ve learned to deal with people like this:
    1 – NEVER lose your cool. If necessary, turn around and walk away from them but never, ever, show them any emotions. These people often aren’t able to be in touch with their emotions at all so they thrive off of other people’s emotional reactions.
    2- Kill them with niceness. Seriously. Turn any of their anger right back on them, and the best way to do this is by…
    3 – Turning everything they say into a question. If she texts you that she’s POed — why are you PO’ed? She says why, you say — why would you be PO’ed about that? She says you’re overreacting — why am I overreacting? And so on.

    Works like a charm in my experience. It usually turns them right around from picking fights with me (as I’m a very direct person who doesn’t deal with passive aggressive people well) to trying to get me on their side. As it should be.

  177.  #177Beloved on April 16, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Labbit – I appreciate the advice and nooooo way in H3LL was I going to get into it by text, and especially not as I’m sitting at my desk reviewing in the last few minutes before a test!

    I feel like expressing and enforcing my boundaries is the way to go. I told her – “If you continue to text me about this, I will no longer be available to you by text.”
    She kept texting, so I blocked. I did this to my own nieces and sisters a few days ago after they included me on a group text that dropped a few racist references and ignorant comments. I first said what I thought and how I felt about it, then asked them to take me off the group reply, then said if I keep getting texts I will block your texts. I got comments about being a liberal, being oversensitive, being flat out mistaken about their intentions…blah blah blah and so I blocked them. Enough.

    And it feels good to know my boundaries. Today I’m studying, and a friend texts me to tell me how depressed she feels and that she feels suicidal. I tell her how much I love and care for her, and if she really feels suicidal please call the crisis hotline and gave her my number as I feel she deserves better attention and care than I can give her at the moment.
    She called her therapist instead and made an appointment for in the morning. She just *feels* suicidal, and told me, she’s too much of a coward to ever do that.
    I thanked her for taking care of herself, I wept a little bit and my heart went all soft, actually. I do love her SO so much and it feels great knowing I don’t have to rescue, I can focus on my priorities, she knows I care about her, and we are both taking care of ourselves.

    Time for another test…!!!
    I feel prepared!!

  178.  #178Senior Lady Vibe on April 16, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    @155: Azure Blu:

    You’re welcome. Have fun and lots of “anything can happen days.”


  179.  #179Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    Senior Lady V

  180.  #180Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    So glad you are taking such GRAND care of you
    by staying FOCUSED on your classes and tests!!
    What a perfect opportunity for self sabotage
    but you held onto YOUR priority!!

    BRAVA!!! excellent!

  181.  #181Azure Blu on April 16, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    soooo…. the last time spirit and i saw each other he ask for us to go together to an event that is going on in Downtown D… my sister is one of the coordinators…
    to let him know what day and time it will be happening

    I am watching myself getting angry and wanting to say… F**k you… why don’t you call ME and ask when and where…
    put some effort in it!!!
    I DON’T want to go with YOU!!!
    I’m tired of this back and forth!!!
    I totally want to control *this*!!!!

    I’m feeling VERY Weak – like my underbelly is bare and Soooo vulnerable
    because I asked for things I wanted and he has not responded immediately, (maybe going on Sat. is probably one of his ways of staying connected…mmmm)
    or exactly like I want him to !!!
    I’m having an inner temper tantrum!!

    Rori said///”When they ask you to do something… do it!!”

    Soooo interesting watching me make this weird…

  182.  #182Kim on April 16, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    Azure…I feel for you. This is tough….for what it’s worth, I would feel angry too…but it may really just be how he does relationship, and I guess there isn’t much we can do other than say yes or no to it/him.
    I know that when a man asks for my exclusivity, there are certain things I would need from him, such as regular contact and closeness and an upholding of a connection…and not days going by with nada.
    This is tough and you are a master siren….and it would make anyone feel off balance.
    I just want to send you a hug, and, I am beginning to wonder since he has been doing this dance with you before…is he able to do intimacy and relationship? Is this whole drama with his daughter just something he uses for creating distance, ie legitimizing the distance ‘my daughter needs me’….the question is, will it ever change…
    I think a timeline was a very wise thing to do.
    I have one also.
    My man has indicated that he now feels shut out and pushed away…the truth is, we have talked. Again and again about the same things…a lot of it now feels like I have been appeased rather than it being a concrete plan with a timeline etc.
    I just don’t feel like talking about the same thing over and over and yet, I guess I have to? It makes me want to move on immediately, because I find it tough to try and talk a man into giving me what I want and need and it feels like I need to push and I don’t want to.
    So I apologized to him and said that I needed time to think about my situation, my future and where my life is going.
    He is not happy, but, in the end the truth is this:
    We have to put ourselves first, and if they don’t come to the party, we will have the party without them.
    This is my view.
    Oh and: everything will work out how it is supposed to be 🙂

  183.  #183Zia on April 16, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    Labbit #139 – THANK YOU! 🙂

  184.  #184Liquid Light on April 16, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    Congratulations, Zia! So happy for you!!!

  185.  #185Femininewoman on April 16, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    Azure for all you know he has forgotten

  186.  #186Beloved on April 16, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Azure Blue – how do you feel about letting him know for now, since it sounds like that is what you agreed to do, and having a response planned for the future – “It would feel best if you called me” and some positive yumness about how good it feels when he calls?

  187.  #187Beloved on April 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    With my friend today, I meant to say that I gave her the number to the crisis center, not *my* number. I got a 95 on my test, and tonight she and I are quietly chatting about knitting.

    RoomieJ…again…didn’t say a word to me about anything, and then…when we were both leaving, at 2:30 in the afternoon…I was talking to TG in the kitchen and she crossed past me and started talking about how tired she is and why. I was in the middle of a conversation with TG so she didn’t really have either of our full attention, and she said sort of low and while she was looking away from me and at the refrigerator, something about when I want to talk just let her know, then left.

    TG asked me, “Did she just say something about staying up until 3am and..something else?”
    I just threw up my hands.
    She has told me repeatedly that she never learns her lesson so…I’m giggling. There it is. That’s her.
    As strained as it all felt, I also practiced keeping my heart unzippered and put a bunch of little tiny smiles in my heart, which made my face smile and made me giggle.

    At the moment I don’t feel any desire to talk to her. I’m feeling happy with the distance for now.

  188.  #188Millie on April 16, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    I’m feeling much better today. A lot more relaxed and closer to my “normal” high functioning self. I got a promotion at work so I’m stepping up into a new role, which I feel super excited about!! In fact, my boss was so impressed with me today and how I performed during our fitting, that she on the spot decided to send me to our factory overseas joining the Senior Designer who was previously scheduled to go alone. I felt so important and valued…It was a really great moment! I’m very excited to go as I’ve ALWAYS wanted to visit our factories. It’s a dream come true!! It will also take me out of my environment and help me to put physical and emotional space between what happened with me and my guy. I am accepting the fact that he may have been a great “Mr. Right Now” instead of a “Mr. Right.” And the timing may have been bad. Of course, I miss him. I find my mind triggered by memories left and right. I didn’t want this to happen….to break up…to take a break, whichever one of those is the reality–only he knows. It’s just clear that he doesn’t want me in his life right now. That hurts a lot. But I know that I’m worth it…and if he doesn’t feel/see that then he’s not for me. I think I’m doing a great job at picking myself up and going forward on my course. I decided not to activate my dating profile just yet. It feels too soon and I have so much going on with work, I don’t even have time to date in the next two weeks. It’s sad feeling like you lost someone. But I guess knowing that he probably doesn’t feel that way going by his actions is a burn and a consolation at the same time. It frees me from pining.

  189.  #189Millie on April 16, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    Scratch that…. Now I’m bawling and drunk….. Feeling horrible… Feeling like I’ll never make a relationship last past three months. I feel like this is all my fault for him losing attraction to me. I pushed him away. I just feel like a baby…. Crying and sniveling… Like a child. I want the pain to go away. I wish I’d never met him.

  190.  #190Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Congratulations on your promotion…
    being a Rock Star at work!!!

    Of course you would be heart broken!!!
    of course you would cry and be Very sad…
    Please don’t blame yourself..
    Rori says (or someone) “we can NEVER say the Wrong thing to the Right guy!!”

    Love on Your feelings of unworthy,
    I am NOT enough…
    whatever trigger comes up for you
    and LOVE< LOVE< LOVE them!!!

    Sometimes for me, as Indigo has said,
    if I just sit there and let my feelings BE
    Don't move them anywhere…
    "I LOVE *ME*… these are MY feelings and
    I'm just going to sit here with them and let them *BE*"

    I am sooo sorry you are sad…

  191.  #191Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 5:55 am

    Kim #182
    Thank you darling Siren for your words of encouragement

    The reason for this 2 month exclusivity is to see if
    his withdrawal and non-communication
    I was only exclusive with him for 2 months after dating for 4 months… and he didn’t act this extreme even then…

    He worked sooo hard to convince me that HE is MY man for the past 4 months while I was CDing!
    Changing many of his ways… compromising to work on solutions for US
    I began to love him more…
    and I was having a difficult time letting him go and letting another man in my life…
    and also… this is Sooo good for me to practice MORE intimacy
    with someone I Love and Like…
    Stretching Alll my intimacy muscles…
    I’ve been learning SOOO much MORE
    about ME…
    even though it doesn’t always feel Great..
    the result is ME loving ME more…
    so if HE isn’t doing what I want in a relationship
    I will be able to let him go
    knowing… What Spirit wants for a relationship
    are Different from mine…
    and walk away Knowing *I* have created an inviting warm place for him to lean forward into…
    If he steps into it YAYAYAYA!!!
    if not… For MY happiness… I will let it go…

  192.  #192Beloved on April 17, 2015 at 6:01 am

    Oh, Azure, it feels so sweet to read your posts. I love the way you are so lightly dancing through your experience!

  193.  #193Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 6:03 am

    I’m glad you have given yourself a timeline…
    We are very much alike in that we can easily move in and out of CDing…
    I believe for you…This timeline will give *YOU* the luxury of time to see more clearly Your triggers with intimacy
    and also MoM’s part and his patterns and
    Practicing Sharing Your feelings – I know you have –
    about day to day issues that are arising…
    I feel it was wise to take time for yourself…
    to learn your pattern of when you WILL NEED time away from MoM
    as you begin your life together
    and be able to catch it and NOT ignore it
    Paying loving attention to *YOU*
    so then you can pay loving attention to MoM.

  194.  #194Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Beloved #187
    Congratulations on 95 on your test!!!
    Despite alll the drama… YOU are amazing!!!

    YES… this is YOUR time to feel Soo Happy, Proud and Excited for your life focus and how well you are doing…

    So hard to let go (as you are doing Great at) of the drama RoomieJ keeps trying to create…
    Making the entire house be ALL ABOUT HER!!!
    a willful and spoiled Child!!!

    I LOVE what you wrote:
    “As strained as it all felt, I also practiced keeping my heart unzippered and put a bunch of little tiny smiles in my heart, which made my face smile and made me giggle. “

  195.  #195Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 6:35 am


  196.  #196Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 6:49 am

    Beloved & FeminineW
    Thank you for you thoughts on contacting Spirit about our date on Sat.
    Since I had agreed to let him know…
    I called him yesterday…
    I LOVE that I was able to be warm, soft and open…
    not always the case when *I* call him…

    He was in another state…His new job asked him to go there for the next 3 days…
    He couldn’t make it to the date…
    we had a warm conversation…
    He said he’d call when he got back…
    He doesn’t EVER say that HE”LL CALL me…
    BUT given the fact he didn’t tell me he was
    going out of town… he might have felt he should Do a little something…

    Ok I did what he asked me to do and called him about our date on Sat. night
    NOW Sirens… That is it… I won’t be contacting Spirit anymore unless he contacts me first…
    The leaning back MUST start now…

    Total concentration on MY wonderful life
    I have shared with him that I want to maintain closer contact…
    That having this much distance is NOT feeling comfortable to me.
    He knows what I am needing

    I think it is Leigha Lake that says:

    “Trust he knows what he needs to do to figure things out.  
    If you can actually start to believe, “He knows what he needs to do and he’ll figure it out.” This will instantly shift your vibe and he’ll get at a “gut” level that you’re a woman who requires a man to step up.  It’s VERY attractive to a man and he’ll feel safe to come close!
    That’s IT!  There’s no need to say another word about it – and IF he’s the man for you – he WILL figure it out and quickly!!
    Step 3.  Get all of your precious energy back onto yourself.
    (Easier said than done – I know!)  Think about what lights you up…what makes you feel excited about life (other than this one man)?”

    with all the wonderful support on this Siren Island
    I know I can do this…
    although lately, I often worry about the pain that i will have to feel
    if this doesn’t work out…
    But I know this is EXACTLY where i’m supposed to be right NOW.

  197.  #197Beloved on April 17, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Millie – Oh, ouch. I don’t wish you to be in pain, and, I feel all mistyripehearted seeing how much you’ve grown and are growing. Your beautiful inner self is really shining through. Big hugs to you.

  198.  #198Victoria on April 17, 2015 at 7:09 am

    Of course it will work out. It will absolutely, surely work out.
    You know if it did not occur to him that he needs to tell you that he is travelling out of town, given the fact that you are his girlfriend, it is highly unlikely that he is good at relationships. This is really a no-brainer, and I am positive it is because of him, not because of you, and that he is highly, highly unlikely to meet and keep ANY other woman who has your class and siren mastery. He is extremely lucky to have met you, and he will stick to you like glue. Live your life, and smile, he will not only figure things out and quickly, but also he is not a fool to let you go. 100%.

  199.  #199Beloved on April 17, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Azure Blue – what the wha? My eyebrows raised up and I felt really…surprised…he went out of town for 3 days and didn’t mention it? Oh. My.

    Yes, I would definitely feel the need to turn away and focus so HARD on me and fill up my schedule with ME.

  200.  #200Beloved on April 17, 2015 at 7:11 am

    Victoria – I love the way you think…I appreciate your perspective so so very much!

  201.  #201Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Ahhh… the strong siren melody you have sung to ME…
    I am feeling misty eyed.. heart wide open…
    happy to feel the confidence you are sharing with me…

    I will paste and copy all of this and hold it dear to my heart as I lean back
    Into MY life
    and let Spirit find his way to me…

  202.  #202Mistea1 on April 17, 2015 at 7:18 am

    Azure Blu 196,

    Oh, I feel for your position now. I have been feeling the same but I have had no contact with MusicTd. It’s been over 3 months and the addictive feeling is almost gone. I still have some cravings left for the music and listened to a little of his playing on the tube the other day. Sunday is the recital and I’m going and hopefully can look at him without much reaction.

    Sami Wunder was very helpful to me and she had me get in touch with the feelings and to sit and love myself with the feelings which helped. I could feel them moving on out from my core.

    I did have some fun cding with some real young guys at another of the recitals I went to downtown. Afterward I complemented them and was all smiley and stuff. They were so cute, blushing and all. I felt like I was Mae West, you know the older worldly woman. It was very much fun and I’m beginning to get the hang of this cding stuff.

    You too can go out and do likewise!

  203.  #203Victoria on April 17, 2015 at 7:25 am

    On the topic of him saying that he will call you, let me share my experience with you.
    Most guys I have dated, at the end of the date plan the next date. This is what I considered standard and did not give it any thought until I met F.
    With him, he never said he will call me again, and he very rarely makes plans for the next date. He is very often on call in the hospital (tries to work overtime in order to solve his money situation) and, in general he is very often late (for everything) and is not good with plans.
    But, from the very beginning, he calls me practically every day. Sometimes we talk several hours a day on the phone. It used to bother me a lot that he never says he will call, the few times when he has said he will call at a certain hour, he never makes the time. And, I know he is like that with everything in his life, not just me.
    I have been thinking heavily whether to let him know that he could greatly benefit from some time management skills. Really, not for me, but just to get his life better organized. But I never dared to actually say it… even before Rori, I new in my guts that a man who is the sweetest person in the world and good looking and sexy and a doctor would not be available at this age without some serious flaws, and if it wasnt’t for them, he would have been off the market ages ago. So, I have decided to love his flaws and be grateful for them. I still get very pissed occasionally, so I come to vent here and suck it up. And, things are not too bad either.

  204.  #204Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 7:27 am

    sooo happy to hear your heart is warming up
    in this MOST glorious of spring times!!!
    cding with young men… how fun!!

    “Why don’t you come by and seeee me sometime”??

  205.  #205Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Victoria,,, #203
    Very interesting point about a
    A man who is Very sexy, smart, SWEET and a DR…
    why would he be available…
    Same with Spirit…
    Smart, Sweet, sooo positive, generous And sooo dreamy & sexy
    why would he be available…
    seriously Difficult, is what Rori’s Toxic man chart says, about Spirit…
    Also interesting that you brought up about F and being “on call”…
    Spirit sells replacement joint parts to Dr’s and is very often in surgery with the Dr.
    so often is “on call”…
    But Spirit is VERY prompt and has been quite
    relaxed about My tardiness… thank goodness
    Love to hear your stories about you and F
    it is helpful and also because I am interested in YOUR life…

  206.  #206Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 7:53 am

    wow sirens! It feels like ages since I’ve posted and it’s just taken me three days to read through every post and comment to catch up with what is going on in your world’s.

    My projection after reading it all as a whole was to feel quite overwhelmed and think ‘men are so confusing!’. I say that’s my projection because maybe that’s how I feel so confused by them and their behaviours but I also take heed of all the messages so eloquently worked through here of them being our mirrors, and of triggers being welcomed ‘cos they help us work through our stuff and help bring us closer to Mr Right or bring us closer to our already Mr Right.

    I feel so sorry for all you who are hurting. I’ve been there, in all of those scenarios, and I send lots of love to that pain and confusion and questioning and really it’s confusion, confused and painful feelings.

    I’m still away and I have had so many opportunities for CDing men and the world and for trying to bring myself back to Rori’s tools time and time again. Sometimes I feel tired because I feel critical of myself and can go into overanalysing ‘whether I did it right’. See, I say I am feeling confused by men, but actually I am probably feeling very confused. I don’t even know what I want really. I do need to do way more work on getting the structures of my life in a place where I feel happy and focused regardless with regards to work/finances and health. I feel hopeful about this.

    I feel a shift in me I think. I had a do-over with a young CD – I don’t know if I named him – I’ll name him moped CD. I felt lonely and with him I felt included and then we shared time together and kisses and then he was in love with someone else and then I felt the whole painful weight of the not being number one trigger, the investing in an unavialble man, the employing him to beat myself up thing (as is, over and over). He then let me down and put me in a position where I had to get home by myself (just before he left for good). And I did change my behaviours. I am learning from you ladies. I took his money that he was drunkenly offering me (three times the amount), left without a word then deleted and blocked. I felt bad about it but I also felt I finally needed to be on MY TEAM. And my team said that there was nothing he could say to me that would make up for that behaviour and, even if I did allow him that remaining in contact would just be painful for me – so why do it???? To save his feelings? I would have done in the past and I feel happy I didn’t this time. But it felt raw and there were memories everywhere and I had a really intense dream about an ex wanting to talk to me so it penetrated some deep stuff.

    I moved from there and felt better and can look back at all these men whom I met over the last 5 months none of whom have stepped up in anyway..ha..as in no-one is filling my inbox with message…but all of whom have taken me somewhere new within myself.

    Right now I have two who are kind of in my immediate sphere but I absolutely refuse to focus on either (or any) of them. As soon as I catch myself questioning anything, doubting myself, feeling uncomfortable or worrying about an exchange or lack of I metaphorically do the ‘looking out of the window’. I will not allow myself to go there. I feel determined to remain focused on me (at least for now).

    Yes, I am very keenly trying to be with my feelings and love my feelings all of them (you are such a good influence to me Azure Blu), and remain open and feeling-oriented (my feelings – not inside their heads), and invested only in me, and open – but at the same time I am beginning to reach a zero tolerance to rubbish behaviour I think – I am getting better at allowing them to weed themselves out whilst I hold the door open for them to go.

    I feel protective of my precious energy, and of my precious heart…self love self love self love

    congratulations Zia! Happy Birthday FW and Dominique! (((((((hugs Riley and Milly and Indigo with your tooth pain and Azure Blu with your tests and Kim and anyone else who may need them))))

    And everyone thank you for sharing your strength and your wisdom. Beloved I love reading your updates – I’ve been on the working through my stuff and boundaries and things and I feel inspired by you, Labbit also so very insightful I loved the anecdote about the man looking for the woman – I felt cheered by this – it resonated and felt comforting. Apologies to anyone I haven’t mentioned I am reading and identifying and feeling a lot of learning from all your contributions

  207.  #207Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 8:07 am

    Ahhhh… welcome back!!! lovely Siren!!!
    Soooo good to hear all your Worldly updates…
    You are So inspiring ME!!!

    I LOVE this NEW Strong Song you are singing…
    About YOUR boundaries, Your lovely heart
    and YOU loving ALLL of YOU!!

  208.  #208Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 8:32 am

    S just called me. He asked what I am doing today and I said I am going out to lunch with someone but didn’t have other plans. He sounded upset and said “nevermind then, I shouldn’t have called you”. He said something about how he needed to go buy some stuff and was going to ask me to come with him, but nevermind. He texted me after and said “Sorry, I shouldn’t have called you. Just confuses things for me. Take it easy.”

    I responded “I am confused too. It would feel wonderful to spend time with you. I don’t want to be the “friend” or side person while you are dating another woman though. I feel hurt and angry that someone else was chosen over me. I’m trying to get myself out there and not wallow in pain but I miss you terribly.”

    He texted me back “It’s all good. I agree that you should get out there. Again it wasn’t cool for me to call you up randomly like that. Have a good day.”

    I am soooo confused! :/

  209.  #209Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 8:33 am

    Thank you Azure Blu 🙂 I’m not there yet and felt so disappointed that I put myself in the position I did with Moped CD but now I have distanced myself from the situation I feel grateful for the lesson ‘cos it really was another one in the ‘settling for less’ ‘ not putting myself first/valuing myself enough’ category and a stepping stone, I hope, to keep taking the focus away from them and back onto me…and practice in just walking away, putting my feelings first (I feel a bit mean that he was the one that got practiced on ‘cos there have been way worse ha but I’m sure he’ll get over it and actually i’m sure there was a very good lesson in it for him too :)). I don’t know I seem to be a very slow siren but maybe not, maybe I can feel some changes happening in me. I hope so anyway. I am doing my best at practicing speaking my truth too and being in my feelings during interactions rather than in my head but that is baby steps baby steps. I am also much more aware of where I shut down and where I might be confusing to men. I have a habit, actually vocalised by one, of closing my eyes if it begins to feel too intimate. He asked me why I did it and I told him the truth and now i’m noticing I do it a lot – the more intense the interaction with an actual (rather than unavailable) (and hence uncomfortable to me) the male CD may be the more I shut down in little and big ways…

  210.  #210Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 8:34 am

    That then, is me being confusing. Open closed open closed…

  211.  #211Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 8:53 am

    standing strong on YOUR boundaries with S!!!
    of course HE is wanting you to cave in
    You are doing sooo wonderful
    AND the biggest benefit
    is that YOUR heart and soul
    BY YOU~!!!
    NO ONE can take away the trusting you
    YOU are building

  212.  #212Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 8:59 am

    what can be better for our intimacy muscles to stretch!!!
    to see the way in which we protect ourselves and keep people/men at a VERY safe distance…
    hoooray for the Mirrors!

    Brave of you to see how you do this…
    and NOW you can take baby steps!!!

    Never forget the x you left…
    How you changed soooo much and
    removed him from your house
    And made YOUR DREAM of LIVING
    where you are now
    A REALITY!!!
    GIVE yourself the parade, loud music,
    hip hip hoorays for that amazing change!!!
    (that was you, right?)

  213.  #213Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 9:07 am

    Azure Blu 210-

    Yes, I managed to stand strong, but it’s hard because I really DO want to be with him! I hope I’m not pushing him away forever. I SO want him to come back to ME!! 🙁

    What I said was true though. I DON’T want to be second to any woman. I’m not going to tolerate it. I am firm on that.

    I haven’t even heard from the guy that I am supposed to do lunch with today, since yesterday. He is someone I have slept with before but we weren’t going to do that today because I am on my period. He claimed he just wanted to have lunch but I’m betting there is a fair chance he will flake out. :p I don’t really care much one way or the other.

  214.  #214Indigo on April 17, 2015 at 9:23 am


    I too love your attitude, and I love the way you describe the way you are with F – so strong in yourself, yet so accepting of him.

    Can I ask – how do you cope with the fact that after 3 years you still don’t see him every day? I feel very curious and hoping your answer can provide me with some helpful insight.

  215.  #215Silver-Tongued Siren on April 17, 2015 at 10:28 am

    Lavender, Millie, Zia, Lovergirl!:

    Thank You for responding… Yes I feel like that message was a lot of words. I’m not sure if I think it sounds blamey or not, but I am aware that often what I say can sound that way, ….

    I haven’t sent it.

    Sirens, I am feeling really inauthentic right now. Help me!

    It is true that I just REALLY MISS HIM. He has been very distant the last four weeks. He seems to not want to disturb the relationship with the other woman he is apparently seeing still…. even though weeks ago he said I could stay with him, now it’s an issue? and he never even got back to me about it.
    He’s only texted me this month when it’s been about our child.

    He helped me move furniture when I asked… He paid for my ice cream when we went out one night to talk, (about kid stuff and ended up doing other things) and prolonged the evening enthusiastically. We spent the evening down by the water and discussed the idea of hypothetically buying a house together before his next birthday.

    He seemed to feel better with me when we went out a second time to talk (about our child) when I told him how I felt he’d been hurt by our circumstances (and he feels, my choices), in the last few years more than I realized and I empathized, and told him I want our family together. He didn’t say anything, aside from that it was all water under the bridge and doesn’t matter. But he did turn fully towards me before he left, not covering his body, and he hugged me also, before he left.

    I’ve felt so disconnected lately.

    He never responded to my text from the other day, (fm that I don’t want to pressure him or our rlsp but feeling a little scared and uncertain, I don’t know what to do here, what do you think?)

    Yesterday he texted to say when he was going to pick up our child. Showed up to my friends house where we are staying and seemed so awkward. (standing near door, not really making conversation w my friends, but would respond to it) …. Seemed really awkward when leaving as though he felt like I was going to say something. All I did though was give him a hug and tell him I was really happy to see him. I did stand by his car door and pause, at one point.. as if I might say something, and he looked uncertain as if he expected the same, but when he looked at me I just smiled. I wanted to say how I don’t feel good when he ignores my text. So I may have seemed inauthentic. Maybe next time I’ll just say how I’m feeling. Tho I think he can tell. Confused, sad, …wanting him. ? … So maybe just shouldn’t say anything at all?

    I texted later to see if he had to work this morning (meaning he would drop our child off while at work), and he responded immediately “No” and I said Ok. Later at night (after he was almost certainly asleep) I said “Love you both.”

    I miss him so much. I love being together and how close I’ve been feeling recently! I feel sad now because he’s been distant lately and we haven’t had sex really in a few weeks now. 🙁
    I’m doing a great job though, being involved and happy with what I’m doing – Working, having fun with my friend, looking for a place to live, painting my nails, talking to men who wanna talk to me, blahblahblah. Happy and fun.

    But I’m kinda panicking a little ..because it’s so important to me to have my family together, and I feel like he’s not putting me first. or at all at the moment! I know this is just this moment, and he can come closer again.

    But I just want to be normal.

    It doesn’t feel ok when he’s told me “I’ll think about it” or already promised me I could stay there then suddenly he’s not sure. But I sometimes feel, “oh well, whatever. he “answered” me with his actions and that’s fine. I can speak that language. Other times I feel I should share that I feel ___ because he told me he’d get back to me and didn’t?

    Also I don’t like withholding how much I miss him, appreciate him, want to invite him, etc. I do realize that if I ask him to do something and he doesn’t, he could feel he’s disappointed me and then it would feel bad to him. Most of the time even if I feel slightly disappointed I’m happy and upbeat and busy. He must feel it, whether I’m asking him or not – just that I feel sad to not spend much time together lately.

    I WANT to ask him to hang out when I want to though. Or that I miss him when I feel it. I don’t feel like I’m being authentic when I’m stifling things I want to say to him just because he isn’t contacting me at all this month, (except to do with our child), and I hear thoughts that I need to mirror him and not show that I care about him more than he is showing he cares about me. But that feels so inauthentic.

    Feeling conflicted about how to behave in this moment. How can I be authentic here?

  216.  #216victoria on April 17, 2015 at 10:29 am

    We try to see each other on most days but he lives almost an hour away ( but works close to where I work). I am not even sure I want to see him everyday. By the way, I am seeing ( and occasionally) sleeping with other men but I don’t like anyone half as much. Unlike most women here (except for Lovergirl ?) I have no problem with that. I guess that qualifies me as a cold hearted female dog :-). The thing is, I want him to want to see me every day… I want him to be so enthusiastic about me that he would move heaven and hell or at least will travel 2 more hours every day to be with me. We are getting there, in due course 🙂

  217.  #217Silver-Tongued Siren on April 17, 2015 at 10:29 am

    I was feeling SO AUTHENTIC a couple of months ago – didn’t matter what I said or did, it all flowed out easily and didn’t matter what the result was. Loving it.

    I want to feel like that right now.

  218.  #218Kim on April 17, 2015 at 10:54 am

    215 Victoria, add me to the list of cold hearted women lol…there were several phases when I was not exclusive with my guy…more by omission than by design because I think he ‘assumed’ we were exclusive.
    As far as I was concerned, he knew I was occasionally going out with other men and we hadn’t brought it up, and I was certainly not going to bring it up…so yeah, I was dating other men…in the off times (we had a couple of longer hiatuses in the two years, I had little relationships and I had one that lasted a good 6 weeks or so, even went away with the guy….my guy doesn’t know this, and I am not going to rub it into his face, but yeah….now we are exclusive of course I wouldn’t ever do that or sleep wit another man, but when there is no exclusivity and the man has not stepped up or whatever, we are FREE to do what we want.
    So I did. And I had a ball lol.
    now, exclusivity is great once we have what we want!
    Now, I share stuff…a guy invited me to go fishing – purely platonic and no romance, he just knows I am into it…I told my guy, of course he is not super happy, but he trusts me I would never cheat on him…and I might not even go if it is a one-on-one, as it happens there would be more people there and my guy can’t go that particular day.
    Unfortunately I just found out that I am tied up too..damn..but anyway, now I wouldn’t see other guys behind his back or anything like that…but, you know, I do reserve the right to go back to it if we are moving in opposite directions, or he is unable to create with me the relationship/marriage or whatever…then, I have no problem going back to CDing and letting him know about it….

  219.  #219Kim on April 17, 2015 at 11:08 am

    203 Victoria, wow, this is exactly how I feel with my man….and also, I am very very picky.
    I don’t want to date a man who had a previous family/kids, and at 40 years old (and I usually date guys a little older), well, there aren’t many who haven’t been married…I have OFTEN asked myself why my guy is single, and has been for 7 years…before that he was in a 12 year relationship and they never got married, of course not because he could not make that last commitment..lol…I know, I know…too funny.
    He is:
    – very attractive (maybe a little overweight, but not much)
    – Has no baggage
    – Has a good job
    – Is financially solid
    – Is intelligent and all around a sweet guy
    Well, so if he was PERFECT and a family/commitment/ambitious/achiever/with fire in his arse….
    he’d have been off the market a looooooooooong time ago. Yep. He is slow and always late and takes forever to make a decision…takes zero risks..never changed jobs….has a commitment phobia..in the beginning couldn’t commit to dates either….let alone anything else.
    A lot of it has gotten better, but yes….about the whole ‘we can have it all’ thing, well I say we can not have it all, always..the man I think I would like, just doesn’t exist…with no previous life and a go-getter…hahaha. lol….so, what I do have is actually pretty good, most of the time! I just have to remind myself sometimes that if he were different, he’d be twice divorced already with a pack of kids…and that is something I really don’t want…at all. So..

  220.  #220Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 11:16 am

    I feel scared of losing S forever. 🙁 I wonder what he meant when he said it is “confusing” to him. I guess this is where I just have to trust him, that he will figure it all out, but it is really difficult.

    I don’t really understand how he can be confused at all. Can’t he see how right we are together and that we have feelings for each other? He feels like my other half, how can he walk away from that?

    I know men really dont operate emotionally the way women do. Its hard for me to comprehend his decisions right now though. I hope I am doing things right and not pushing him away for good.

    I hope he doesnt just decide that he needs to be with some other woman. He doesnt even sound very into her. I dont get it.

  221.  #221Kim on April 17, 2015 at 11:16 am

    205 Azure, if he comes up as a ‘difficult man’…then I wonder what the life cost/benefit calculation would be here…one of my friends introduced me to that concept lol.
    You know, MrP was a very difficult and probably toxic man..but there was a lot in it for me. He was exciting, gung ho, active, impressive, fun, a doer and fixer, and he introduced me to soooo many things that I LOVED.
    however, he didn’t make me feel loved, cherished etc., because he was unable really to do relationship and we went long periods without talking or doing stuff together…in the end the negative far outweighed the positive, and I always used to say that it didn’t bother me that he had issues and was difficult (he is also a hoarder etc..so lots of stuff going on)..the thing that did break the camels back was NOT how difficult he was, it was how little relationship capability he had. I could have put up with a lot of nonsense, had he expressed and acted on a wish for a committed ‘all-in’ relationship…I might have even been able to accept his erratic contact behavior – once I understood why…
    But I believe when we don’t feel cherished and loved and he is not in front of us MORE than he is not, the cost/benefit calculation is really heavy on costs…hm.

  222.  #222Kim on April 17, 2015 at 11:18 am

    219, lovergirl, you can’t lose something you don’t have. A man is not something you own, or who will belong to you suddenly just because you acted a certain way.
    It is something he feels or not.
    There is nothing for you to do other than be yourself. You can’t control what he does….you can control how you react to it.

  223.  #223Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 11:30 am


    I know I don’t own him and can’t control his choices. But he’s my best friend and I love him and I don’t want to imagine the rest of my life without him. I feel so sad even writing that. 🙁

  224.  #224Kim on April 17, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Hmm…this whole going out of town thing… I agree with Victoria, he seems clueless…the question is, is clueless and man-training something you would want, and is she showin willingness to change…you have expressed you need more contact. It is true that men will figure it out if they want to….

    My man is also often clueless….about a lot of relationship stuff. I often said that I want an unavailable man just as much as a clueless man, which is not at all lol. Although, the point is that he is always eager to learn, and he will be the first to admit that he is clueless…and he WILL change. For example, at one time I remembered saying about daily contact and how good it feels etc. And he did start to call me every day….and lots of little things like that, because he wants to make me happy.
    It all depends…some men are so wrapped up in their own little world and life, they do not have the capacity to learn and work on a relationship….
    I am sure you will soon know which type of man Spirit is….
    and if what he offers works for you…right now, it looks like hard work.
    In fact he reminds me of Boston, who still contacts me and even sent me a credit card…he seems to think we are a couple – but he never even calls me, or comes down to florida to see me, so frankly, some men just have no concept of what a relationship really is. It’s so strange,

  225.  #225victoria on April 17, 2015 at 11:42 am

    He is not your best friend, he has been a lover and an employer and these are replaceable. Best friends do not get you pregnant and claim you are trapping them and do not critize your choice to be with someone else when they are not available. In my language there is the expression that he is like a dog tied up to an Apple tree – does not eat Apple’s but would not let anyone come by.

  226.  #226Labbit on April 17, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Azure Blu, I don’t know if this helps, but in the period where I was unsure whether TenderCD was going to commit to me or not, I spent a LOT of time practicing releasing the tension inside of me. Oftentimes I was SUPER tense and was not aware of it.

    I actually set a reminder in my phone that went off four times a day, and at those times I gave myself 5 minutes to stop listening to what was going on inside of my head and BREATHE. I dropped everything down into my body, rolled my shoulders back, opened up my heart (sometimes I’d even put my hand over my heart as Dominique recommends) and just practice melting. Melting into myself, and also into the world around me.

    Opening up, welcoming energy in from the world, refreshing that light inside of me that kept going dim. I wouldn’t think about TenderCD at all when I did this…often I’d think about the beach, surfing, snowboarding, or my pup. Something that makes me happy and helps me to feel relaxed. Or thinking about each part of my body, and thinking and feeling it soften. Softness. Lightness. Opening up everything in my body so the tension could escape out and be replaced by melting, ooeey gooey goodness.

    It made an immediate difference in how I felt and oftentimes something good would happen, whether a coworker asked if I wanted a coffee, or my boss came by to tell me I was doing a good job, perhaps even a text or call from TenderCD. It helped me a lot to give myself a set time to release all that tension that kept building up in me. 🙂

  227.  #227Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 12:24 pm


    There have been many dogs tied to this apple tree, lol! So I get the expression, but not sure it really describes S.

    I have long forgiven him for the comment about being trapped. It was said in fear and during a very emotional time. He has been truly apologetic and I believe him. I don’t feel he ever really meant that.

    As far as him getting upset about others, it seems like a good thing to me. He has admitted he doesn’t have a right to be upset, but it obviously still bothers him. I kind of want it to bother him, because it could be what eventually pushes him to step up.

    He has been way more than a lover and an employer. We have had such good times together. I sincerely feel we are great together and still hope he comes around. I don’t want to dwell on it but I really hope he changes his mind.

  228.  #228Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Kim I have heard so many coaches say that 99% of the men out there aren’t relationship ready. It kind of feels depressing to hear that. Also that they are wired to resist commitment.

  229.  #229Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Lovergirl I am over here shaking my head thinking it is pointless for me to say anything.

  230.  #230Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Domini you travel to Paris today right?

    Bon voyage sweet lady 🙂

  231.  #231Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    Ahhh… sweeet siren…
    I know you will have a fantastic trip!!!

  232.  #232Labbit on April 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    227 Femininewoman — I don’t see how that can be true when over 50% of the USA alone is married. Humans have a primal drive to hunt, kill and eat animals too but you don’t see many of us doing that the first two parts of that these days. 😉

    Men want marriage because they want the RESULT of it. The devotion of a woman, the affection and regular sex with one partner that it brings. The ability to raise a family. And so much more. Sure they may also have a deeply ingrained instinct to desire variety in sexual partners, but most men choose to feed that instinct in healthy ways for the sake of commitment. By and large both men and women are happier in marriage.

  233.  #233Azure Blu on April 17, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    Labbit #225
    YES… very helpful…
    Dominique says if you see
    any change.. pay attention
    cherish… appreciate…
    How do I feel when I’m with him
    or when I am NOT with him…
    I’m not feeling very loved
    OR cherished right now…
    2.5 more weeks Sirens.
    I am CDing the world right now.
    Today in my city it is 75 degrees (long hard winter)
    the sun is shining
    I got a beautiful hair cut, I have a beautiful car
    and I sat outside and had a Great conversation with 2 Very handsome men 10 years younger~
    one ask for my biz card!! I gave it to him
    I am seeing the possibilities!!
    Ahhh what sunshine, pampering and a beer can do for ME!!!

  234.  #234Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 1:05 pm


    That feels kind of condescending. Anyway, regardless of how things appear to anyone else, I feel loved by S. He might not even realize it himself yet, but I feel it. So while I am sad, I am also feeling at peace that he will make the best decision for what should happen between us. Im going to trust him and I have a feeling I will hear from him again.

  235.  #235Labbit on April 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    233 Lovergirl — The issue I see with this is that it sounds like you are leaving your happiness up to S. He’ll come around…he’ll decide to come back…believe me I know these feelings and mindset all too well, with men who I had AMAZING chemistry with. I was sure each one of them was my husband-in-waiting.

    Imagine for a second that your Chicago guy was saying this to himself. ‘She’ll come around. She doesn’t realize how perfect we are for each other. She’ll make the best decision for us’, etc. Doesn’t that FEEL weird? Wouldn’t that feel like pressure to you?

    I’m not saying that S won’t come back around. When I read a lot of your comments, I’m always impressed and inspired by how you’re able to be in the moment and share what you feel with S. From a larger view however I am…I don’t know what the right word is…concerned?…worried?…feeling uneasy?…that you’re focusing on the CHEMISTRY you and S have, which is clear and undeniably hot, and not looking at all at the compatibility you share.

    And from a compatibility standpoint, S had made it clear he doesn’t think you two are a match at this time, based on what you’ve said here. He doesn’t want a serious relationship with a woman who already has children. He’s has serious hesitations about being in a relationship with a white woman. So on. He might change his mind…but nothing you do will help him to change his mind, and in fact you might hurt your chances if he feels pressure from you. Waiting around like the good little girl, going on dates just for the sake of going on dates…I have been there too and unfortunately it just does not work.

    He won’t decide to be with you based on how much merit you have, how good for each other you are, or even how close you are and how great the sex is. He’ll choose you because he feels GOOD around you. And part of that comes from you…and a LOT of it comes from inside him.

    Is this connecting for you at all? I’m not trying to knock you down, I realize how hard this time must be for you and how confusing and frustrating it feels. I have felt the pain of false hope and I’ve seen it unfold here many times…and I don’t want that for you.

  236.  #236Labbit on April 17, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Men don’t choose women based on chemistry. Or if they do, those are the relationships/marriages that tend to flame out quickly. Successful long-term relationships are based on compatibility — similar values, long-term life goals and visions, being able to work as a team and communicate well.

    It’s why the biker dude can marry the librarian; the super nerdy guy can marry the wild party girl, etc. On the surface they have very different passions and interests or even morals and belief systems, but underneath they share a similar outlook on life and are able to work together as a team.

  237.  #237Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Labbit 234/235-

    You are right that I should not leave my happiness up to him. I have to work on being happy regardless of what happens with S.

    It would feel yucky coming from the Chicago guy, lol, and like a ton of pressure. I don’t want to put pressure on S.

    I actually feel we are very compatible and he has said the same of me. I should clarify that he isn’t opposed to dating white women. He’s only EVER dated white women, he’s never been with a black woman. He’s never even SLEPT with a black woman except once, with a biracial girl and it was only once or twice. He’s also not opposed to dating a woman with children- the issue is that my family is a lot bigger than what he envisioned having and also that my kids are white and couldn’t pass for his. He would feel awkward in public with all of us, like people were judging him for taking on a bunch of white kids and also I think it would bother his father.

    He used to say he would never date a woman with children. Then he dated that girl who grew up in my hometown/went to school with me. SHE had two children, but they were biracial. He got attached to them and when they broke up it was hard on him.

    As far as values and goals… we have similar values, not so sure about goals, as at this point my goals are mostly to stay afloat. We work great as a team, that’s why we were able to work so well together.

  238.  #238Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    RE 231 Labbit – True or false, I won’t be the one to argue with them. They know why they make the statements so I just read to arm myself with information.

  239.  #239Femininewoman on April 17, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    “Men don’t choose women based on chemistry.”

    How do you know this statement is true? I am almost certain I saw an article where Rori says men will choose the one he has the most chemistry with. Or the one who gives him a “hard on”. I can’t remember now how it was phrased.

  240.  #240Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Also, I don’t want to wait around and just go on dates pining for him. I will try to keep my life going, regardless of what happens and see if anyone else comes along. I still have hope for S though.

  241.  #241Waterfall on April 17, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I LOVE this post! 🙂

    How is everyone? I so love reading all the comments posted by everybody. Really interest, and hopefully inspiring!

    Well, it has been a while…

    To recap I have split from my regular and most connected CD – I’m gonna call him TT from now on…

    It has been a tough and emotional couple of weeks and sometimes I feel it isn’t getting any easier.

    Even though I know he isn’t *right* for me I miss him soooo much… And also, I have to confess I haven’t been able to maintain the *no contact* rule.

    I have reached out and text him a couple of times. I miss him so much and it’s hard not to have that connection. Also, I guess I am seeing how it feels to “lean forward” which is interesting…

    I know I need to get myself back out there again. I just feel so numb and uninterested in the whole *dating* experience.. To be honest I am going to have to work really hard to muster up any enthusiasm..

    What is worse it that all my friends seem to be dating now and are in “happy” relationships. I am happy for them, but the truth is I do feel a tad jealous. Not jealous of their relationships – but jealous that they seem to just fall into them… When I speak to them about it they say there was no doubt in their minds that they would meet “somebody”. I have NEVER felt like that..

  242.  #242Waterfall on April 17, 2015 at 3:09 pm


    You are so strong, and I feel so inspired by your ability to keep your barriers even though you are missing S so much.

    I find that bit so difficult, especially if he calls me and asks to see me, usually I just cave in…

    I do agree with what some other Sirens on here are saying though. I think only from the point of view that it is you that is the most important person in all of this, not S.

    Also, I do agree that the power of chemistry can be overwhelmingly strong. The connection, the emotional telepathy, etc… I think you are right to stand your ground and feel your way through your feelings.

    I admire you so honestly and openly acknowledging your feelings of pining and yearning for him. I hope you can sink down deep into them, I have tried this many times.

    Last night I had a really good cry and I also tried to actively “not avoid” my unpleasant feelings of missing TT. I’m not sure if it’s helped or not?!

    I also keep thinking about Labbit’s advice about not trying to “pressure” a man even just by having the belief that “he will come round” and “he is the man for me…”

  243.  #243Lovergirl on April 17, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    Waterfall (241)-

    Thanks. I find it difficult too. I’m sad that I said no to him but proud of myself too. Not sure I could have done it if I didn’t have a date set up already. Of course, that guy called and cancelled anyway. :p Oh well.

    I don’t want to pressure him and I have to work on not feeling so sure of myself that he will come around, I guess. Maybe he never will :(.

    I feel encouraged that it only took him 3 days from when I gave back his house key for him to contact me wanting to hang out. I know they say men fall in love when they miss you, rather than during your time together.

    I can’t help but WANT him to want to be with me anyway. :/ I HOPE its a sign that he will eventually come back and stronger than ever before. Don’t I have the right to want that?

    I have to wonder what he meant when he said that calling me “just confuses things” for HIM. Then he said it “wasn’t cool” for him to “just call me up randomly like that”. So will he never do it again? I guess only time will tell.

  244.  #244Linda on April 17, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    I have to admit that there have been so many things that have been said in this thread that are dancing around in my brain.

    I love the comments about receiving what a man offers and how that makes they happy. I can remember thanking P lots of times for something nice he had done and my expressing my thanks or appreciation for it. His response would be “thats my job”. I had a hard time “hearing” anything positive in those words because for me the word “job” instantly connects to words like “duty” which feels negative and “have to ish” to me. I think it was his way of expressing in total male energy way that he was working with every intention to make me happy. I guess the comments triggered an “ah ha” moment here for me. If anyone ever says that to me again it wont feel so negative.

    I realize that there are lots of opportunities that I have not used to decorate a moment and put my mark of authenticity on it . This is something I want to flow in. My default setting is chosen silence. It has felt too risky and scary to expose myself good or bad. I find myself playing a self assigned role instead of being 100% authentic. This is something I am taking baby steps in changing.

    I like the feeling that the phrase “decorating a moment” with myself creates in my heart. This is how I want to think of authenticity now. It feels positive and exciting that way.

    There are so many of you I wish I could meet. Sit down with face to face and talk to, hug, and connect with differently than what this medium affords. We are all so very different and all over the globe . Our cultures and environments create such differences too… but deep inside we are the same.

    After all my time here I have learned and grown so much. I can say that I honestly feel clueless on how to successfully navigate a relationship with a man. I feel unsure that I will ever have the kind of relationship I desire with one. BUT I can say with 100% certainty that I will have the most important healthy loving fulfilling kind of relationship one could ever have with MYSELF. This is my ultimate goal anyway now. A relationship with a man would just be icing on the cake… and the cake is so good already it doesn’t have need of icing at all.

  245.  #245Linda on April 17, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    Lovergirl. I have been reading thru your comments. THere is a vibe I come away with that can be described with one word . It is “fractured”. I do not begin to know what would bring wholeness for you but I wish it for you with all my heart. What adjustments could you make to create an atmosphere for that to happen for you?

  246.  #246Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    211 – Azure Blu – yes that was me (and there were a string of even worse ones before him :)) One thing with being somewhere where everyone is coming and going is it’s good practice for staying on the horse and just letting them all go – if they come back they come back, if they don’t well I keep riding. I some ways it’s easier to keep riding ‘cos I have places to keep riding too (!) literally…I want to recreate this sensation when I return – keep my life so full and remember that there are always more men just around the corner. I need the more men because I’m still need lots of practice at ‘how does this feel for me’ rather than getting fixated on whether they like me or not and feeling like I get to choose rather than ‘will they choose me’. I have a lot of work around that.

    Lovergirl – It would feel good to be able to wade in but I don’t feel qualified and I know how hard and frustrating it feels (and confusing and scary) I like what Labbit says to Azure Blu about releasing the tension within ourselves. There’s not much else we can do, even when the behaviour is confusing we can’t get inside their heads only keep focusing on ourselves, lean back, let go, let go, let go, give them the space to work through and come back if they do, and if they don’t remain open (somehow) to the idea that there may be someone better…Indigo has definitely posted some lovely comments about focusing on herself and holding the space for the right man to come in…I do know from my experiences when we’re so hung up on one we miss other options around us, but I also know that I had to go through situations that felt intractable whilst I kept working on all the things I needed to work on – everything happens in its own time.

  247.  #247Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    SLV – I wish I knew how to help but I don’t know either – have you tried the free coaches? I feel confused sometimes too about the line between being authentic and also staying open. But, there are a lot of feelings in your post. Is it possible to go deeper with them? I don’t know much about your situation and I don’t have children and can’t imagine how confusing that must feel navigating with the father of your children but…he came closer and then withdrew… and has now just kind of left you hanging (and in a scary position) is that what’s happened? Is it possible to get into how that feels – rather than thinking about what you want/hoped for? That may be where some of the not feeling authentic feelings are coming from? I would not feel happy at all. I would probably feel quite angry – I’m just wondering if this might help you to feel a bit more empowered…in this post it feels like he has all the power to call the shots. Do I remember too that you need his help with some of the financial things or where you’re living? Other sirens may not agree with me and as I said it would be great to get a coaches opinion but that issue is really quite important…a matter of safety and survival…would it be possible to try to attempt to schedule a time to talk with him? Just ideas, please ignore them if they don’t resonate with you 🙂

  248.  #248Sophie on April 17, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    Linda 🙂 hello! We always seem to pop back up at similar times.
    “I can say that I honestly feel clueless on how to successfully navigate a relationship with a man. I feel unsure that I will ever have the kind of relationship I desire with one. BUT I can say with 100% certainty that I will have the most important healthy loving fulfilling kind of relationship one could ever have with MYSELF. This is my ultimate goal anyway now.”

    I love this – me too! I have also noticed recently how I maybe use men (my comfortable unavailable ones) to distract me from my intentions of loving myself more fully…or maybe I use them to help me get there more I don’t know, or maybe I just get lonely (but still I run from those feelings and create situations that hurt me instead). Whatever, and why, I’m trying to love myself for the very humanness of that.

    I agree about the women on this blog. I felt curious the other day about us all being in a room together and how much feminine strength and power and talent and wisdom and beauty there would be – we could move mountains 🙂

    Love to you xxx

  249.  #249victoria on April 17, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    FW 238
    “Men want a woman who gives them a boner”.
    I was so impressed by how simple and short she said it.
    But this does not mean they marry for that. Men get boners quite easily and from many women. They have 10 times more testosterone. Given how high my libido is with just the regular hormones of a woman, I am scared to think how sex crazed men feel, just by biology.

  250.  #250Tereana on April 17, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    Mandy –

    It’s been so long. I left you hanging, too..

    But about your “job opportunity.” It does rather sound like CD-ing for pay. Lol. And how it goes depends partly on you. But of you do this, remember it is you doing it. Because it sounds like you’ve heard lots of stories that are based on fear. But I also know of and have Meg personally some women who have been very happy with doing sex work. And I mean actual sex work. Not all women have the “light go out” in their eyes. Not all are “cut off” from their juiciness. That, I believe comes from the people in the situation who abuse them, not from the dancing or even the sex work itself. Some women (and men) are even turned on by it, and MORE connected with their juiciness. The difference is, where does the power lie? Is it your CHOICE, or is someone else choosing it for you?

    If it is YOUR choice & you want to do it and it feels good, turn try it out! See how it feels. Don’t back down bc of fear. Maybe you’ll like it : )

  251.  #251Indigo on April 17, 2015 at 11:55 pm


    Thanks for the hugs.


    Thanks for responding. I don’t think it makes you a heartless female dog at all, I’m honestly always impressed by how clear and open you are about what you want and what you think will work for you. I’m glad you’re getting there, I feel I am too.

  252.  #252Indigo on April 17, 2015 at 11:57 pm

    Silver Tongued Siren,

    So much leaning forward. Do you think you could, I don’t know, just stop with all of that?

  253.  #253Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 2:03 am

    @ Azure Blu 181

    “I am watching myself getting angry and wanting to say… F**k you… why don’t you call ME and ask when and where…
    put some effort in it!!!
    I DON’T want to go with YOU!!!
    I’m tired of this back and forth!!!
    I totally want to control *this*!!!!”

    I’m loving your processes here Azure blu.

    This is enlightening for me!!

    I always feel so *guilty* around me anger and my deep inner needs not being met. I often feel like shouting, yelling…

    I love how you have expressed this here. So open, so pure, so vulnerable…

    like you can watch it from a distance and you are at ease with this..

  254.  #254Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 2:23 am

    @ Azure blue 196

    “Thank you for you thoughts on contacting Spirit about our date on Sat.
    Since I had agreed to let him know…
    I called him yesterday…
    I LOVE that I was able to be warm, soft and open…
    not always the case when *I* call him…

    He was in another state…His new job asked him to go there for the next 3 days…
    He couldn’t make it to the date…”

    Gosh, this sooo minds me of my CD…

    This feeling of being left hanging after promises had been made, dates had been tentatively planned, words had been said, times had been arranged…

    Then he would act like “Hey, sorry, I’ve just been really busy… something came up… I had to go take care of this mega important issue… I needed to help a friend… etc…etc…”

    What upset me was that he never felt the need to *speak to me first* about these things. He felt so sure of himself and that I would be *alright* with everything..

    But then when I wasn’t *alright* with everything he would pout and stamp his foot like a little boy. He would bully me into forgiving him.

    And after I had forgiven him he would do the same all over again. It was heartbreaking and exhausting for me.

    After one time when I said I had had enough and I needed to move on, he called me up at work saying he was desperate to *speak* to me and that he was saying he was “so happy” that I had taken his call…

    I was like “Meh…whatever”. Anyway, after a long conversation he kept asking me what I wanted. I told him “romance, stability, friendship, commitment… much the same as most people really”

    He said: Can I take you away for the weekend, like we used to? We could go the weekend after next…”

    He said: I will arrange a really lovely getaway for the both of us, somewhere really nice”

    My heart melted. I said yes…

    Then a couple of days later we started to meet up again. He dropped into conversation how he was going abroad with a friend to do some work for him. This friend ran his own business and my CD said he could get quite a few hundred pounds for a couple of days work.

    I couldn’t understand it. My boyfriend was so wealthy he did not need to work, but only did to give himself a purpose in life. Plus he could barely spend money if he tried as he was soooo frugal…

    Anyway, I was a bit upset that he was going away and so soon after we seemed to be getting back together. Also, I suddenly realised it would mean he would be away for the weekend he had promised we would go away together.

    The more I thought about it, the more the anger grew. It grew so strong that one day I almost spurted it out. How could he do this to me? How could he just trample all over the promises he had made me?

    I really was getting angry now. I wouldn’t let it go, and we argued and argued about it for days. I even brought up the “What if we had a child” argument, and would he just up and leave and break his plans then?”

    But everything was to no avail. I could argue and argue but he still wouldn’t change his mind. He told me because he had said “Yes” to his friend he now did not want to let him down.

    He apologised to me, but in my mind it was too late. The damage was done. He kept promising to make it up to me but I just felt (rightly or wrongly) soooo “let down”.. I felt I couldn’t get over it…

    But, I eventually did accept his apology. I did realise it was “just him”. We did do something else to make up for it and I was truly happy.. and in love.

    However, deep down, I just knew that this way of doing things wasn’t going to work for me. I just didn’t like being messed around like this.

    Part of me wondered if he didn’t want to be the “bad guy”? I don’t know…

    Either way, I still do love him, but I do see him for what he is.

    In some ways he has given me a lot. A lot of friendship and a lot of affection. But he has not given me stability, commitment or romance…

    Ah, well. You win some, loose some…

    I hope this doesn’t trigger anyone too much! I just really related and feel like writing….

  255.  #255Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 2:35 am

    Thinking about it my CD would *always* break his promises. Even little ones…

    He would constantly say “I’ll do some research into this and this for you and I will send it to you..” And then promptly never bring it up in conversation again.

    Or he would make a big thing of how he was going to buy me *this* or * that*…

    He would say to me “Oh please Waterfall, please can I meet you. I have that *present* for you…” I really want to give it to you.”

    And I would meet him. But no *present* would materialise. And believe me, it wasn’t that I was particularly bothered about the *present* but, well, I found the whole thing weird, and strange… It just unsettled me really. Like why lie?!

    I felt he wanted me to *ask* for the present so then he could paint a picture of me as some money grabbing woman. It just made me feel angry inside…

  256.  #256Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 3:01 am

    There was another thing with this relationship that shocked me… it was his connection with other women…

    It came as a complete SURPRISE to me!!!! And I realise my own naivety. It was like Whoah! I was looking at a different person..

    The first time I experienced it was when we were sat with a group of friends. Unbeknownst to me he had already struck up a close friendship with one of the girls in the group. Until we all met up together I was completely unaware of it.

    But what I felt uncomfortable with was the fact that he distanced himself from me when we were with this group and seemed to align himself with her instead.

    When we were on our own he would tell me not to worry, and that he wasn’t “sexually” interested in her. He told me how years ago they had shared a hotel room together and had insisted on separate beds. He told me this in a slightly mocking way – as if he had hoped his luck might have been in. But obviously it was to no avail…

    I felt the spark between them. He was also like this with other girls. When he was speaking to them their eyes would light up and I would feel like a third wheel, or gooseberry or something!! It was horrible…

    Still he kept reassuring me that he absolutely one hundred percent did not FEEL anything for these women. In fact he always insisted that he found them unattractive…

    Yet often the whole conversation seemed to revolve around how all these other men fancied them, and that they had these men wrapped around their finger.

    He always loved winding them up about this.

    He had an obsession with women being dominatrixes and treating these men really badly…

    It made me feel insecure around him, like why was he so obsessed with these women? I also felt like it was turning me against these women because they would play along with it whenever he was around. Hmm…

    It’s stuff I need to work out I guess…

  257.  #257IamHis on April 18, 2015 at 4:41 am

    I feel anxious and a little scared of being judged.

    I feel a little worried that I leaned forward too much.

    For some reason, seeing TT made me feel soooo incredibly nervous that I seriously couldn’t breathe. I had to step away and tell myself to breathe & then follow through with deep breathing. That felt really embarrassing!

    He was wearing glasses and hadn’t shaved. I like it when he doesn’t shave because it makes him look older…

    He is always looking for ways to help me and it is seriously so cute. Because of my recent discovery of our age difference, I suddenly feel very anxious around the word “cute.”

    High school guy is the same age as me & textbook masculine, yet I still find myself cooing with him and telling him how cute he is.

    It’s just the word that comes out when I’m feeling all gooey towards a guy.

    Anyway, TT was doing little things to help me out through out the day like he always does, & I thanked him every time. He seems to really enjoy helping me & hearing me say thank you. It’s seriously so cute.

    & he still does that thing where he stands really close to me so that we’re touching and he’s all tall and hovering over me and I experience breathing problems…

    He has acted nervous towards me many times before, but this past time he seemed especially nervous. He came over to where I was to use the computer by me to ring in an order which was technically out of his way but none the less appreciated by me. & he’s been at the job longer than me, & he kept messing up & he acknowledged his messing up, so I took a peek to possibly learn and bonus! to be close to him. I couldn’t figure out what he did funky & neither could he, but I could tell he was embarrassed about it, and he just kept saying “oh man, I did something funky.”

    I just started stroking his arm (I LOVE his arms) & I just kept stroking them & looking over his shoulder as he attempted to fix the problem. I knew he would fix it and he did, but he was like, “I can’t believe I did that.” & I was like, “aww, it’s ok, you fixed it!”

    I guess I just feel scared of going into mothering mode or something because of the age difference. I respect him & everyone at work respects him. He’s a hard worker and a natural leader.

    I got to meet his little brother which made me feel so gushy because he looks just like him and I was practically squealing over how cute his little brother is. A mini version of TT! I guess that’s just my girly personality coming out.

    I just feel worried about embarrassing or emasculating him or coming across as a big sister or something?

  258.  #258Femininewoman on April 18, 2015 at 5:13 am

    Bob Grant

    “Featured Topic: I am Sorry, But Your Intuition About Men Is…Wrong?

    When most people think about counseling, they often assume that the counselor is going to help them get in touch with their feelings. The common belief is that the more in touch you are with your feelings, the better your life will be. In many instances, this concept is correct. Nevertheless, there are exceptions.

    When it comes to feelings, it is true that what you personally feel is neither right nor wrong. It is simply how you feel. I often use the analogy of someone who is hungry.

    It would be senseless to tell someone who states he is hungry that he should not feel hungry. If you’re hungry – you’re hungry! However, when referring to relationships, feelings and the role they play in a relationship get a bit more complex.

    When a man becomes significant in a woman’s life, she does not just feel – she FEELS. Emotions and feelings are exaggerated. She wants to be with him constantly, she thinks about him often, and she is keenly aware of when he is being sweet, and when he is acting rude (or indifferent).

    What many women do not recognize is that what they feel is only half of the equation. The other half is how they interpret those feelings.

    More importantly is how their interpretation affects them and the relationship.
    This aforementioned principle is a common cause as to when problems start to arise in a relationship.

    When your feelings for a man are extremely intense, that is usually when you are the least intuitive. The truth is that intuition is based on knowledge more so than on feelings. The more facts you have about a man (his character, behavior patterns, etc.), the more accurately you will be able to understand the motivation behind his various behavior(s) or actions.

    Have you ever known a woman who recognized that a particular man was dishonest or unfaithful and yet still chose to date him? The reason for this decision was probably that she believed/felt that they had a “connection.”

    Her feelings told her that despite the negative information she knew about this man, he would be good to her. Their relationship would be different.

    She had an instinctual feeling about it. If anyone disagreed with her, it was because other individuals could not understand their specific “connection” which to her was markedly different from his past relationships with other women, or his past behavior.

    It is not that her feelings were necessarily wrong. In fact, I am quite certain that there were many wonderful qualities about such a man in this scenario.

    However, it is important to realize that women, like the one described above, who make assumptions simply based on the strength of their feelings are exaggerating the importance of what they feel.

    In turn, they are minimizing the significance regarding their lack of knowledge about a man’s character. The result is often a relationship that ends abruptly, and a desperate plea for help in getting him back”

  259.  #259Indigo on April 18, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Silver Tongued Siren 214,

    I know you want to be “authentic” by expressing all these feelings to him, but I honestly think all this is going to do is push him further away. We think that using feeling messages will draw a man in and that it’s being authentic, but lots of words have the opposite effect with a man. First of all, our feeling messages are not supposed to be about him or about how we feel about him – telling him over and over how much we “miss” him and feel sad and don’t feel like priority with him is like shoving him out of the door. Also, he has to be coming towards us before we can say a feeling message. He’s in a relationship with another woman!

    If you want a man to make plans, literally your only choice is to lean back.

  260.  #260Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Sorry, she had insisted on separate beds – not him!

    Also, to be clear I felt he was obsessed with winding these female friends up about all the men that they had wrapped around their little fingers. He would go on and on about it… in a way that made him sound obsessed…

    He would say ‘Oh, you got so and so to do this for you ha ha ha’. And he would laugh in a really hearty manner. He played up that these girls were deliberately getting these men to run about for them and then offering them nothing in return.


  261.  #261Lovergirl on April 18, 2015 at 6:42 am

    Linda 244-

    I feel more broken than fractured at the moment. :/ I’m not really sure what I could do to feel whole. I feel torn apart.

    It seems everywhere I go there are painful reminders of S. I can’t even go to the store with my kids without remembering being there with him. It’s eating me up.

    I even dream about him at night, like every night, lately. Last night it was a dream that I was talking with his best friend’s wife and another woman and they were telling me they did not like the new girlfriend and that he didn’t seem to like her that much either.

    Anyway, I know I have to find a way to feel whole without him. Honestly right now I don’t feel at all like going out on dates. I feel like being a bit of a recluse and just wallowing in pain. I broke down and cried last night. I feel abandoned by him and that, to me, is about the worst feeling in the world.

  262.  #262Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 6:56 am

    I know this is such a difficult time for you…
    Yes… just wallow away– into YOUR feelings…
    sometimes for ME I can’t even call them by name…
    Hug YOU…
    Read Labbits #225 – “releasing the tension inside of me–”

    Here are some excerpts from Sirens on this post…

    Can’t attribute all of them..
    “everything happens in its own time.”
    Sophie says:
    “I need to continue to date more men because I still need lots of practice at ‘how does this feel for ME’ rather than getting fixated on whether they like me or not and feeling like I get to choose rather than ‘will THEY choose me’. I have a lot of work around that.”

    “I know they say men fall in love when they miss you, rather than during your time together.”

  263.  #263Indigo on April 18, 2015 at 7:08 am


    Don’t feel like you have to go on dates if you’re not feeling it right now. I believe your inner self knows what you need, and lately your posts about the dates you’ve been going on have the feeling of pulling teeth. Don’t feel like you need to do anything just because you “should”. I know I was once given the advice when I was heartbroken not to feel like I had to do anything beyond the basics of what *had* to be done. So, get yourself to work, get yourself clean and fed and take care of your kids. That’s all you *need* to do. Beyond that, use your precious energy to be kind to yourself. I believe you will feel when it’s the right time to do more. Personally, I feel life is too short for “shoulds” and “have to’s”.

  264.  #264Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 7:09 am

    Linda #243
    Sooo lovely to see you here on Siren Island… !!!

    I do so love how you have put this…
    “I realize that there are lots of opportunities that I have not used to “decorate a moment” and put my mark of authenticity on it . This is something I want to flow in. My default setting is chosen silence. It has felt too risky and scary to expose myself good or bad.”

    When reading this, *MY* silence on “decorating a moment” IS because it feels Scary, Risky, and vulnerable and triggers feelings of weakness in ME…
    For ME the feeling of Weakness is something to be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS…
    and so I want to continue practicing with Spirit & all people around me… “decorating a moment”
    soon it will NOT feel like weakness… simply me being open hearted to the world!!

    Maybe one reason it feels soooo vulnerable to Me to “decorating a moment” is because
    It is not a simple sharing of MY FEELINGS… there are Strings attached…
    I want something in return…
    Mmmmm… I need to examine that!

  265.  #265Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Linda #243
    Ohhh Siren, I Love this
    “BUT I can say with 100% certainty that I will have the most important healthy loving fulfilling kind of relationship one could ever have with MYSELF. This is my ultimate goal anyway now. A relationship with a man would just be icing on the cake… and the cake is so good already it doesn’t have need of icing at all.”

  266.  #266Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Silver TS

    I do agree with Indigo’ wise words #258
    “We think that using feeling messages will draw a man in and that it’s being authentic, but lots of words have the opposite effect with a man. First of all, our feeling messages are not supposed to be about him or about how we feel about him – telling him over and over how much we “miss” him and feel sad and don’t feel like priority with him is like shoving him out of the door. Also, he has to be coming towards us before we can say a feeling message. He’s in a relationship with another woman!”

  267.  #267Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 7:27 am

    I feel confused… much of your posts are in the past tense are you still dating this man?

    and if so… for how long?

  268.  #268Femininewoman on April 18, 2015 at 7:39 am

    Alexandra Fox

    “Remember: Up to 80% of all single men out there aren’t ready, willing, or able to handle a serious relationship even if they tried. And you need to protect yourself from these men.”

  269.  #269Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 7:59 am

    Sometimes life just keeps dishing out the lessons…

    I have a group of friends I’ve known for 3 or more years… I have sooo much fun with them… they are great folks!!!
    they started out being some single and some married… now all are married but me…
    the women meeting for girls night
    and the couples, and me, meeting on Fridays (a group of them meet at other times but I’m not invited- which is fine)
    during the past year it has been feeling awkward
    and I have stayed away unless I have a date to bring on Friday nights…
    Welll.. one of the women – who’s husband Blatantly flirts with me- has been making it very difficult for me to be with them on Fridays…
    and now it has spilled into girlz night!!

    I just saw posted on Fb – they were at a local bar last night and no one let me know…

    Thinking about all of this, last night and this morning, realizing I will need to get a new group of friends..
    this makes me VERY sad and panicky as it has been sooo nice to have them as my friends…

    They have been warm and welcoming when I have gone through some VERY difficult times in my life…
    but now is a good time to just stay away…

    It isn’t fair that this man – TW – flirts with me sooo blatantly!!! I have tried to avoid him over the years – asked him to quit
    BUT lately, his wife has been so disgusting to me, I have just let him flirt…
    He has told me often if he had met me before M- his wife – he would have married me!!
    so what!!
    when we’re out with the group he constantly tells me he loves me in a friendly – not – way…
    there are no emails or texting or anything like that…
    each weekend I hope he’ll quit but it has gotten worse..

    I feel heartbroken… VERY disapointed that they all have turned against me..
    Maybe next girlz night that i am invited to…
    i’ll share my feeling about all of this…

    in the mean time I really do need a new group of single women to hang out with…
    Ahhhh… the ebb and flow of it all…

  270.  #270Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 8:21 am

    @ 266: Azure

    I feel confused… much of your posts are in the past tense are you still dating this man?

    and if so… for how long?

    Hi Azure! How are you?

    I was dating him for about 2 years but have recently split up for good about 2 weeks ago.

    I have text him a couple of times, and he has text / emailed me too.

    He is a really difficult man to describe – I have never met anyone like him.

    I don’t feel anger towards him, just disappointment that it hasn’t worked out and very sad.

    He is just a bit of a loner and wanderer really. When I first got together with him I thought it would only last a few dates as he seemed so eccentric, extravert, quirky and well… different really.

    I had never met anyone like him. At first I wondered where the whole thing was going and even our first few dates were a bit odd and I wasn’t quite sure where it was all going.

    He always told me that he was rubbish at romance, but we did do some nice things together and he always came up with interesting dates such as a good play, an exhibition, a talk, etc…

    But what I found was that he never wanted to get a drink after, or a bite to eat. It seemed he didn’t enjoy relaxing in that way and he always wanted to be outside – so we would often go on long romantic walks and picnics – that sort of thing.

    After a while I just got worn down by it all. I felt like if he really loved me then we would be on the same wavelength with these things.

    He did try and please me a lot and he made a huge effort to try and do that. I just think that we were both so different in how we liked to spend our time.

    Anyway, yes he was a bit of a flirt with other women but I don’t think he ever came on to them.

    He also used to say to me that he never expected to truly fall in love with me and how it was all an absolute shock to him. He said he hadn’t really ever had a relationship like the one he had had with me.

    I dunno… I actually could not work him out. I hope beyond hope that I never find out anything that shakes me view of him.

    But in all honesty he did try really hard to make it work. I think we both did. Sometimes you don’t really know why you got into the situation you got into..

  271.  #271Zara on April 18, 2015 at 9:00 am

    The Work of Byron Katie
    14 février 2014, 14:33 ·

    “I was wondering what wedding vows look like to Katie?” —Steve

    The only true love affair is the one with yourself. I am married to me, and that’s what I project onto everyone. I love you with all my heart; you don’t even have to participate, so there’s no motive in “I love you.” Isn’t that fine? I can love you completely, and you have nothing to do with it. There’s nothing you can do to keep me from the intimacy that I experience with you.

    The voice within is what I’m married to. All marriage is a metaphor for that marriage. When I make a commitment, it’s to my own truth, and there’s no higher or lower. “Will you have this man to be your husband?” “I will. And I may change my mind.” That’s as good as it gets. I’m married only to G*d—reality. That’s where my commitment is. It can’t be to a particular person. And my husband wouldn’t want it any other way.

    I also notice that I possess nothing. Stephen slips the wedding ring onto my finger and whispers, “Try to keep it for one month.” It’s his little joke. He’s had the experience of giving me a gift, an expensive one, that was gone the next day, because someone admired it and I knew it was theirs. He realizes that what the ring symbolizes is mine forever and that the ring itself can never belong to me, that I simply wear it until it’s gone. Two years ago, I gave it to a dear, unmarried man whom we both love, but he gave it right back. So here it is, still on my left ring finger, five years later: an unexpected miracle, in Stephen’s view. How can I possess anything? Things come to me only when I need them and only for as long as I need them, and the way I know I need them is that I have them.

    There’s a lot to be said for monogamy. It’s the ultimate symbol for One, because it keeps your mind focused on one primary person. You just have to undo everything around him, every story about him that rises up in your mind. Monogamy is a sacred thing, because the mind can be very still in that position. One person will give you the experience that a million people could give you. There’s only one mind. Your partner will bring up every concept ever known to humanity, in every combination, so that you can come to know yourself. If you can just learn to love the one you’re with, you have met self-love.

  272.  #272Millie on April 18, 2015 at 9:07 am

    So one thing had now become clear. My guy broke up with me last sat in a text message. In a vague text message. I didn’t understand it. But it’s clear now, he wasn’t asking for space. He wanted to be done. And it’s over. He’s not coming back. Did he lose attraction for me? I think that is the only answer. Not all his other stuff, but that simple basic thing he didn’t feel anymore for some reason. I feel heartbroken. But there’s nothing more to so or say. I have to work up the courage to delete him from my phone, but I’m not ready to yet.

  273.  #273Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 10:00 am

    {{{Waterfall #269}}}
    Ohhh… I know this must be a tough time for you…

    from what you have posted i feel like you have learned more about YOU… what YOU need and want…
    He sounds like you had great practice with your feeling messages…
    He also sounds like a VERY confusing person…
    Unavailable for a relationship… and not much emotional intimacy… can you see how that is a mirror for YOU?
    and a great time to start Cding… if it feels good to you

  274.  #274Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 10:11 am

    @Azure Blu 272

    Hi Azure, yes I feel I have learned a lot. I am just trying to pick up the pieces and slowly move on.

    I feel very flat at the moment and I worry that I’ll come over as desperate or needy with other men.

    I have some nice men friends, which is nice.

    I am just enjoying taking care of myself at the moment…


  275.  #275Waterfall on April 18, 2015 at 10:15 am

    … Also.. if I pick up the vibe that someone see’s me as negative I immediately want to distance myself from them.

    I have had this from a few people over the years and I always feel sad that they project this negative view onto me, which I feel is more to do with them..

    I want to run away from them as far as possible.

    I like to be around people who see and love and like ALL of my positive qualities and enjoy being around me.

    If I so much as sense that someone see’s me as negative I want to turn and run.

    Occasionally D would say things to me that made me think he saw me as negative and felt like he always had to boost my confidence.

    I found it patronising and condescending…

    If people see me as negative it is there problem. I would much prefer not to waste my time on them.

    I am just me, doing my best! 🙂

  276.  #276Azure Blu on April 18, 2015 at 10:17 am

    {{{{{Millie #287}}}}
    Ohhh… sweet, beautiful Siren… I am soooo sorry to hear about your sadness… I know how hard this is…
    I have gone through this many times… it S*cks!!!
    His decision is NOT about YOU…
    Don’t do anything (like deleting his number) that will upset YOU!!!

    Like FeminineW posted:
    ““Remember: Up to 80% of all single men out there aren’t ready, willing, or able to handle a serious relationship even if they tried.”

    Also Sophie made a really good point here:
    “I need to continue to date more men because I still need lots of practice at ‘how does this feel for me’ rather than getting fixated on whether they like me or not and feeling like *I* GET to CHOOSE rather than ‘will they choose me’. I have a lot of work around that.”
    Hang in there Millie…
    much love and support to you

  277.  #277Millie on April 18, 2015 at 10:27 am

    Azure– you are so right about feeling like I need to be the one choosing them not wondering why he didn’t choose me. It’s just so hard when you had exactly what you wanted and then it slips though your fingers. It clearly wasn’t meant to be… And I do need much more dating experience so I can tell the difference between true love and infatuation as I am now beleiveing that this was… An infatuation on his part. When I met him I wasn’t seeing anyone else and didn’t while we dated. Because I hadn’t met anyone else I liked. But I think this time I’m going to circular dating right and REALLY just casually date a bunch if people and practice not getting invested and practice not getting attached to attention.

  278.  #278Lovergirl on April 18, 2015 at 11:51 am

    Azure Blu 261/Indigo 262-

    Thank you. I am kind of wallowing. I watched a movie this morning because I saw it recommended elsewhere on this blog- 50 First Dates. The comment was about her degree of difficulty and how he put in all that work.

    Anyway, it is hard to watch a romantic movie when I’m feeling like this. :/ It just makes me ache for him more. I don’t really want him to be gone from my life. 🙁

    The Chicago guy wanted me to come by his place today and I made an excuse not to. Every time he texts me I just feel annoyed, not happy and excited like I do with S. Like, here he is texting me again, ugh. There was a guy on POF that hinted at asking me out tonight too. I don’t know if I’m up to it though. I just want to hole up and be depressed.

  279.  #279Mandy on April 18, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Ugh. Gotta vent…oops…I mean riff…lol…

    I feel terrified that J and I are going to go out tonight for his birthday, he’ll have too many drinks, and start being nasty, just like in my dream this morning, and I’ll have to cry and feel awful and leave to spend the night at my parent’s house. I am making double-triple-sure I will stay in line and not have too much to drink, but I can’t control him.

    But trust me, I do feel like saying, “If you drink too much tonight and get nasty with me, I will leave and spend the night at my parent’s house.”

    How can I turn that into a Love Script? First I have to open my body….Dance pose…relax, feet…legs….hands…..arms…..head….core….and stick my tongue out and breath through my vagina……

    Where’s my vulnerability…where’s my memory of his humanness…

    Okay. J loves me and means well. If I were to say, I can’t wait to go out tonight and have fun. I love going out with you. I feel we should watch each other’s backs with the drinking tonight so as to avoid any problems. What do you think? Can we give it a try?

    Or maybe I can take a journal with me to jot down my feelings, and then reason what my plan of action is to avoid anger and hostile feelings. Sometimes when there are other women around and J talks to them, sometimes I feel that twinge of being left out. Or thinking she’s more interesting than me for reasons I have no control over, because I’m familiar to him and she isn’t. I don’t want to choose to feel left out tonight. If I do feel left out…I might choose to be quiet the whole time, but I’ll end up wishing I could leave…I would be so okay with handing him money for the cab (which is supposed to be part of his birthday treat) and then just going home early on the bus or have my mom come get me, which she would.

    I love being able to walk away. But I can’t do it with J. He won’t ever, ever leave me be, when I want to stop talking and he is emotionally charged.

    I want to choose to maybe talk, dance, flirt (?) laugh and have a good time. It’s more for him than me, but I never resist going to this club.

    My limit is five drinks. That’s a lot. maybe tonight, before going, I’ll have two, and then maybe two at the club, and see what happens.`

    Breathe…I can handle this….

    I will:

    – Take note of my own drinking and slow down if I feel too messed up
    – Let it be known if I feel weird, or left out
    – Choose to be somewhere else in the room if he doesn’t help me out of feeling weird and keeps allowing me to feel weird
    – Call my mom the minute I notice he’s too far gone with drinks, and is starting to be nasty, so I can get my stuff and go to her house if I need to sleep there.

    I think I will pack a little overnight bag just in case. Just want to be prepared so I don’t CHICKEN OUT and keep fighting with him and cause a domestic disturbance with loud yelling.

  280.  #280Beloved on April 18, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    Mandy – being prepared and having the overnight bag sounds like a great plan! It made me giggle and smile to read that.
    Way to keep the focus on you and take care of you! Sounds like your boy energy has your back 🙂

  281.  #281Mandy on April 18, 2015 at 3:40 pm


    AWWW. That means so much to me 🙂 I do have a GREAT boy side, I’d totally go out with him if he was another person, lol! Strong, persevering, always goes the distance, is smart, and is so strong I would never not trust “him” to let me down. 🙂 He picks me up and dusts me off and says, “Try again.” 🙂

    Yes, I was raised to be able to do this, to straighten up when need be, stiffen my upper lip…not to say ignore emotions…but be strong to be able to take action when necessary, to get you out of trouble or to get yourself out of an uncomfy situation or to get to safety or comfort….for YOU, no one else! 🙂

  282.  #282Silver-Tongued Siren on April 18, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    I have not yet done anything that is leaning forward, other than a text or two. I come here to ask questions and examine my thoughts and feelings.

  283.  #283Femininewoman on April 18, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    Millie he text. Didn’t think it was worth his energy to call to tell you. Well my dear you are worthy of more than that. I hope you have maintained your dignity because if he does come back you will definitely be in the position of power. In my humble opinion if he broke up via text it is an indication that he is not yet at the stage in his life where he can successfully navigate a relationship. Maybe he realizes that and is coming to terms with it by taking time to go upgrade himself. When all is said and done what you really want is to be in a relationship with a mature relationship ready man.

  284.  #284Millie on April 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Femininewoman– AH I LOVE your post! I feel your strength and sassiness reading it!!! YES I have maintained by dignity. I have not “gone off” on him or continued to “stalk.” I have only asked for clarity, which he has not given with words only actions and lack of words. Perhaps I am not as ready for a relationship either because I initiated talking about our relationship in a text. I believe he would not have said anything if I hadn’t. His past relationship tells me that he rides things along..well I don’t. Next time, I also need to call or speak face to face when I have something important to discuss. Texting is never the answer when it comes to what is real. YES I require a man who is ready and willing!

    I ended up signing back on POF and it has been blowing up like never before. I had like 30 messages and can’t even read them all! Aaaanddd…this cute guy helping out at our work today found out I do alterations, so he started telling me about the many things he needs fixed. (I feel like guys use this as a come on with me because it’s like oh-you hem pants! I have pants) He asked for my number…but it could very well be about pants and not anything else so we’ll see. But if FELT GOOD anyway! It’s like take that **** (my guys name) I can’t help attracting people.

    So yeah and I’m going out tonight and I’m going to look amazing and have a great time. One day at a time to fulfilling and becoming the greatest version of myself.

  285.  #285Mistea1 on April 18, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    Well Sirens,
    I know that MusicTd is not capable of the relationship thing but I’m going to satisfy my curiousity of what will happen next. I am using this situation to get over that feelings of chaosness he engenders in me as well.

    Today I served coffee at a little reception they had at the church. Soon he entered the room, I not did not turn toward him and infact positioned my self facing away from him. He has tried to approach me 3 times in the last several weeks and each time I have turned away. Sooooo this time he finally positioned himself directly in front of my face. He then spoke first, exactly what I wanted!!

    The conversation was short and ala post 257 I am not going to attempt to interpret what was said. He inquired without a smile, “Are you still alive?” I replied with a friendly smile, “Yes, I’m still alive. Are you still alive?” I had to ask this twice I think. I think he tended toward the negative before I became sucked in to his chaos. Thankfully someone wanted coffee then. He is forced to lead the conversation and I only reply directly to a direct question.

    Later I helped clean up and as I left I heard him playing, I had forgotten he might be playing and I got to listen to 10 minutes of the most exquisite beauty. I was so moved and then he stopped. Sigh.

    One thing I have learned from all this is to not talk so much. I learn a lot by listening and I am not so much subjected to misinterpretaion. Very helpful.

    Tomorrow is the main recital late in the afternoon. I am going to push the envelope and leave him a note in the morning with a suggestion of how he might improve his endings. That ought to be interesting. I’m curious. I have nothing to lose. Therefore I can risk.

    Geez, I hope I haven’t gone off the deep end. But then I have nothing to lose. 🙂

  286.  #286Linda on April 18, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    I spend the entire day on a lovely date with myself. THe air was so warm and the day sunny. I ate brunch with my daughters in a quaint spot and delighted in their company and our conversation. This past christmas I bought us all eternity rings to symbolize that we three will always be tied together. I smiled to myself today when I admired them on their fingers.

    After that I shopped. I needed a new purse and found some lovely new floaty feminine tops. I was attracted to bright colors and tried them on. A pair of turquoise ankle slacks came home with me too. I shopped out of my usual scope because I was feeling adventurous.

    I thought of taking myself to the movies this evening but will save that for tomorrow I think. Instead I took myself to a local ice cream shop and shared it with my little pup. She loves to go on adventures with me.

    It was a lovely day !

  287.  #287Millie on April 18, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    Azure 268 that’s so interesting.. That he does that! I’m sorry it has forced you to find friends elsewhere. But it is definitely an uncomfortable situation!

  288.  #288Linda on April 18, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    lovergirl… you may feel broken but you are not.


  289.  #289Linda on April 18, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    Azure.. you already decorate moments without strings of outcome. Look how your presences has decorated this blog!


  290.  #290Linda on April 18, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    Thank you Sophie… when you consistently take awesome care of you that things you presently do that create unhappiness for you will stop. You wont have any energy for it and it will inspire a man to step up and trump your efforts!

    back at ya… xoxo

  291.  #291Indigo on April 19, 2015 at 1:52 am

    Silver Tongued Siren 281,

    Remember that leaning forward is not only about our actions. It is also about our thoughts, focus and energy. Sorry, but you asked for Sirens’ input and your posts come across as very leaning forward to me. Texting him when he is not responding, talking about the relationship, going over to hug him… I don’t say this to be judgmental, I say it because I’ve DONE it and experienced first hand how it pushes a man away and feels like pressure to them. Even thinking about a man, longing for him, when he is not coming towards you and has pulled away for weeks is very leaning forward. Again, I’ve done it and experienced how bad it was. Things just are and can be SO different when a man is coming towards you instead of backing away with all his might.

  292.  #292Sassy on April 19, 2015 at 7:48 am


    I am so sorry and stunned that your girlfriends have chosen to abandon your friendship because of someone’s husband blatantly flirting with you!

    Clearly they were not good friends.

    Stay strong and find a better class of women to hang out with.

  293.  #293Sassy on April 19, 2015 at 7:50 am


    I love that you bought your daughters eternity rings!

    That is awesome. I have 2 grown daughters that always take me out for Mothers Day so I may just steal your idea!

    I also am so impressed with how you are moving forward in your journey with yourself.

  294.  #294Linda on April 19, 2015 at 8:02 am

    I know that I posted that I felt clueless on how to navigate thru a relationship with a man. I will however say that because I have invested so diligently in creating a balanced peaceful place within myself I feel pretty confident that I could use that as my plumb line in navigating one. I used to be looking/hoping to find someone to complete me, but now not at all. This shift feels glorious. I am not perfect by any means but I am ok with me. I mean really ok.

    I have had some dates with P over the last few months. When His energy comes toward me and I let it in. He is less edgy, calmer less needy. He used to suck all the energy out of me very quickly and that is not happening now. He seems to be quite mindful of how his spewing has wrecked his life an relationships and I can see him exercising self discipline.

    I can feel though that he is emotionally guarded and in ways he is testing and measuring things. I can say it did stir me up in a bad way at first and it triggered some things in me like… insecurity, confusion and anger. I did not like that I had let him mess with my inner balance and then I realized it was me that made that decision. So I am learning more about me in the process. I know if he does not let his guard down nothing new grow and right now he is holding pretty tightly onto some things that transpired between us in the past that offended him as the reason to be this way.

    I can feel this because my heart is in quite a different place toward him than it used to be. Really I should restate that and say that really I can feel this because my heart is in a different place toward life than it used to be. I don’t know where this is going to lead me but it feels promising and I am going to stay on my bridge and keep going.

  295.  #295Linda on April 19, 2015 at 8:11 am

    Hey Sassy…. steal away!

    I found beautiful sterling silver rings with small clear stones channel set in one of the strands of the eternity knot. I searched online and found just what I was looking for. They are sturdy but dainty/feminine ( we all have very small ring sizes). They were under $15 each.


  296.  #296Margaret on April 19, 2015 at 8:11 am

    I’m a little confused is our action plan only fun stuff, or everything related to our goals?

  297.  #297Linda on April 19, 2015 at 8:15 am

    I feel frustrated when my posts go into moderation and then some don’t. It feels kinda like going thru the security line at the airport. Ya never know if you are going to be the random one that gets pulled aside or pass thru no questions asked. lol

  298.  #298Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Sassy, #291
    Thank you for this vote of confidence…
    Yeah, so very disappointed… boyfriend disappearing…another girlfriend, who was my friend before she got married, has also slowly drifted away…
    It all feels VERY lonely/../
    confused voices wanting to have their say
    my little girl needing lots of TLC
    Feeling like everyone around me seems to have figured life out (of course NOT perfectly)
    sometimes I just need to sit with all of it.

  299.  #299Tereana on April 19, 2015 at 9:32 am


    Anyone can answer. But I’m thinking of Leigha and Dominique here. Maybe Rori. The difference between TRUSTING and Giving My Power Away. What is it?

    Because I know instinctively that there is a big difference. And yet, in practice, when I attempt to “trust,” what it ends up feeling like is giving up MY Power and letting someone else make decisions.

    I loved Leigha’s email, which FW quoted partly in #50. The idea that you can get into a mindset of “he knows what to do. He’ll figure it out.” This is actually kind of intoxicating to me as well as maybe to a man.

    But I fear giving my power away. I’m afraid of not being the one to make my own decisions. And there are definitely times when “leaning back” and “trusting” that a man knows what to do completely backfire. In that, maybe the man simply has no clue, and he interprets my silence as non-interest. Or maybe he makes some decision I’m not happy with, or, instead of contacting me as much as I’d like. He writes to me very infrequently, and so I feel not-cared-for – and powerless because instead of speaking up about what I need and want, I am “leaning back.”

    I want to be in my power. I want to be able to speak up for what I want and need AND let the man know and feel that he is in control of all of his stuff and that he can come to and is safe.

    Can anyone talk about how this works and how I can create it in my own life? I think having trouble separating the two – because in the past, “trusting” DID mean that I absolutely 100% gave my power up to the people in charge (aka my parents). I never really learned how to do it differently.

    Ok thanks!

  300.  #300Beloved on April 19, 2015 at 10:05 am

    Linda – there are two words that I know of that will send a post to moderation: e v i l and p l u m
    which is why if will use ! in place of an i or l if I use those words. Some religious references will flag, but I’m not sure which, and multiple links will also throw up a flag, if that helps.

  301.  #301Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Margaret #294
    For me this question is a little confusing…
    can you explain more?

  302.  #302Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Linda #288
    Mmmm…. thank you !!! :0)

  303.  #303Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 11:09 am

    237 Femininewoman — Mmhm, I hear you. I guess I just so viscerally disagree with the statement quoted…and though I have a few dating experts that I really trust, I still don’t agree with 100% of what they say. To me a statement like that is perpetuating the myth that either all the quality men are taken (not true in my world) or that there are no quality men out there (also not true in my world).

    & 238 — I think Victoria answered pretty much as I would have in 248, but I can see how I was vague in my statement. Ideally I want to have super hot chemistry with my man, but I’ll take a little less chemistry if our compatibility is super-high. It isn’t binary — it’s not like we can be only compatible or only have chemistry. It’s finding the right mix. 🙂

  304.  #304Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 11:10 am

    Also FW I was smiling, laughing to myself and blushing while reading your Bob Grant vignette, because I have so been there!!

  305.  #305Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 11:29 am

    260 Lovergirl (and also 262 Indigo) — This is a very rare instance where I’m going to disagree with Indigo. But of course before I share my counterpoint I will very much agree that you need to do what feels right to you…so if what I say sounds too hard or painful…well then of course don’t do it.

    Having gone through a period where I casually dated many men at once (no sex, just getting to know them), I can now look back on those few months as being SO important to my relationship skills development. I don’t think TenderCD and I would be where we are now in our relationship if I hadn’t gone through that short phase, which I’ll call RapidCDing. Before my RapidCDing, I was the woman who would pine over a man, try to ‘fix’ relationships that were in fact over but I couldn’t accept it, and behave desperately to try to get a man back who in truth wasn’t interested in me.

    I thought something was wrong with ME. But through RapidCDing I learned that in fact I just didn’t know how to recognize some common male behaviors…I didn’t know how to properly screen a man to determine if he was ready to be in a relationship or not. Before RapidCDing I kept choosing men that were never going to be relationship ready, or when they were, were not going to want a relationship with me. During RapidCDing I learned most all of the signs men show when they’re really interested in you. It became SO EASY to see which men were truly interested in dating me to get to know me better, which men were just courting me til they got their sex, and which men were only about the sex. Did I make mistakes? Sure I did. Did I invest in men too soon? Yes I did. But because there were so many new men coming at me all the time, it never hurt the way old heartbreaks used to. I simply didn’t have time to obsess, pine over, torture myself over a man who disappeared or dumped me. Some new guy was already chomping at the bit to replace him.

    …And this is my biggest point. I used to think that dating only one man at a time (pre-commitment) was the way to go, and now I see how naive that belief was. It was ONLY through dating so many guys at once that I got more confident in my communication, in my relationship assessment skills, in myself. This is why I love Rori’s stuff so much. She is SO RIGHT that you learn everything you need to know about yourself and men so quickly by putting yourself out there.

    When you’re a woman who is smart, successful and talented (and whether you think this describes you or not Lovergirl, IT DOES), the truth is that most men WON’T be for you. So you need to take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way to meet men in that top 20%, to let your forever man find you. I’e been reading a lot of Evan Marc Katz’s stuff recently, and one thing he said that’s really stuck with me is that if you date one man a month each month of the year looking for love, well that’s only 12 chances a YEAR to fall in love.

    But if you go on one or two dates A WEEK, well now you’re talking 52 or 104 chances a year to find love. Who’s more likely to find it — that 12 times a year woman, or the 104 times a year person? The one who has more dates of course. Not only that, but the 12 times a year woman also is at the disadvantage of likely emotionally investing in each of those guys, which makes it SO MUCH HARDER to break free of a dating situation or relationship that isn’t right for you. Versus someone who’s dating one or two guys a week, where there isn’t enough room in your heart to invest in all of them. You’re able to keep a more balanced outlook on everything, put yourself first, love yourself.

    Our minds make it sound terribly hard to go out on dates with more than one or two guys at once. But once you start rolling with it, it becomes easier and easier. Then when Mr. Right comes along it’s WAY easier to recognize him. So if S is Mr. RIGHT, he’ll only become more obvious the more you let yourself date!!!

    I really, REALLY love EMK’s Believe in Love book and workbook. I mentioned this a little while ago but one of my sisters has been using it while dating (his other e-book Finding the One Online too, which is also FAB), and she’s having amazing results. She goes out on multiple dates every week, speaks to guys by phone (they rarely text her because they know she expects more), and right now two guys are making a serious run at her. And EMK is a funny writer who’s helped me realize a lot of ways I wasn’t seeing things from a reality-based perspective.

  306.  #306Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 11:32 am

    While RapidCDing another benefit I noticed was that as my dates got better, I was a happier person. My life was being filled with men planning fun stuff for me to do 2 or more times a week! Which kind of grew on itself…because being happier, I brought that happiness into each date with a new guy, which then made him relax which led to a better date which led to more happiness, and so on. That happiness leaked into every part of my life…work got better, my health got better, etc. It’s that constant expansion Rori talks about.

  307.  #307Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 11:35 am

    283 Millie — HOORAY!! GO YOU. Seriously Siren, I’m not at all surprised that your POF is blowing up and in my humble opinion, you should be out there having fun and meeting new men to your heart’s content. You are super attractive! You can go into these dates with no expectations…low pressure…just have fun! Put on your lipstick and high heels and have an amazing time wherever you are.

    I feel so happy you’re giving this gift to yourself. 🙂

  308.  #308Mistea1 on April 19, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Azure Blu 296,
    I feel your lonliness and confusion. Maybe a shift in perspective would help. How about “making room for:”. I know when I had to shift church homes a few months ago I started to feel deprived. But I realized there are good people wherever I go. I can find them.

    When I made the switch sure there were some things I missed but there was lots of new things I hadn’t even considered that were lots of fun. The people I met were just as nice and some even more friendlier.

    It helped for me to consider that I am good enough, I am a worthy person and I easily attract the same to me. Now I have to live up to the goodness I am finding and that is helpful too.

    The only thing I haven’t replaced is the actual quality of music itself. Sometimes, I just want to fall down and bang my head against the floor to stop the pain of mediocrity. However, I have had to get myself out to other venues and have some new favorites in the violin, singing and small goups area. Nice people too. And as you have noted they are fun to cd with.

    By the way, are you familiar with Penny Kelly and Lily Hill Farm and Learning center? She does intuition and gardening etc. in your area. Can you tell me anything about her if you know her?

  309.  #309Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    297 Tereana — Are you in a committed relationship with this man who is writing you infrequently? By committed relationship I mean HE has said that you are the one for him, you’re on the bridge with marriage on the table? Because my answer would be very different for someone in a committed relationship vs not.

    At a high level, as the feminine energy partner, you should never be concerning yourself with what he’s thinking (i.e. worrying he thinks you’re not interested if you’re silent), how he might interpret something or strategizing to get him to come towards you.

    Your power as the feminine energy partner lies in being the OBSERVER. Any effort on your part to keep the connection going is too much. You simply watch what he does. If he can make you happy, then you continue on with him in your dating/relationship. If he can’t make you happy, your power means you can leave or lean further back. As soon as you lean forward, even just a little bit, that’s when you lose your power.

    You use feeling messages to share what’s in your heart in each moment and how you feel in that moment — BUT if you try to use feeling messages to push an agenda, get a need met, or make him do something, that’s actually masculine energy disguised.

    With a masculine energy man, when you lean back, he’ll be compelled to come forward and fill up that space. Usually it happens very quickly with a man who is bonded to you, interested in you.

    If you’re leaning back and ‘trusting’ that a man is going to write you more, or communicate more, or take care of you more and being invested in getting those outcomes, that’s not actually trusting. It’s trying to manipulate the situation. It’s an agenda…masculine energy. 😉 Leaning back means you take your energy off him entirely (I think of it as forgetting about him altogether), put all of your energy into yourself and your own life. Then you watch to see what he does. If he doesn’t come forward to fill up the space you’ve created, it doesn’t mean your trust didn’t work or leaning back didn’t work…it means he doesn’t want to fill the space.

  310.  #310Mistea1 on April 19, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Labbit, 304,

    I agree now with your perspective. The more I get myself out there the better I feel. Heck, I even bought myself a pair of heels the other day. Woo Hoo!!

    The other thing this is helping with is my feelings of overattachment to MusicTd They are almost gone and i actually forget about him for longer periods of time.

  311.  #311Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    MisTea #306
    Ahhhh… thank you gentle siren…
    When yu made that big switch to another church…
    I thought you VERY brave indeed.. and you stuck to your NO contact now, for 3 months… so loving to YOU!!
    I love this
    “But I realized there are good people wherever I go. I can find them.”
    “It helped for me to consider that I am good enough, I am a worthy person and I easily attract the same to me. Now I have to live up to the goodness I am finding and that is helpful too. ”
    YEs YES YES!!

  312.  #312Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    no i’m not familiar with
    familiar with Penny Kelly and Lily Hill Farm and Learning center… I’ll try and google her.

  313.  #313Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    I have been following Evan marc K for a year or so now…
    I LOVE his perspective!!
    Nice to hear relationship from a man’s perspective
    AND he is such a cheerleader for
    WHY we need to keep dating!!!

  314.  #314Leigha Lake on April 19, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Hi Tereana and Sirens!

    Tereana, I would love to address your question as I believe it’s part of the foundation of having an amazing relationship.

    I absolutely believe in communicating and letting a man know what makes us feel happy or sad and letting him know what we don’t want.

    If he’s the right man he’ll do everything he can to make us happy and there will be no need to keep bringing up “relationship talk” and things like that.

    If we can come from a place of trusting ourselves and trusting a man wants to do everything he can to make us happy… we’re able to see more clearly who he is rather than who we want him to be.

    Step 1. Trusting Ourselves

    The first part of trusting is trusting ourselves – trusting we will not stay in a situation if it feels bad (what does this look like to you?).

    Our Power truly lies in Leaning Back – which absolutely includes expressing how we feel – as long we’re not blaming him or making him wrong, or trying to get something from him.

    I think it’s almost impossible to push the right man away by leaning back and being soft and warm when he comes close. I also believe we are in our highest vibration when we’re leaning back.

    Leaning back for me is also about setting new boundaries. Experimenting with new behaviors. Getting better at detachment, not reacting, and managing urgency. Learning how to have fun and learning different ways of nurturing and loving ourselves.

    Step 2. Trusting Him

    After we’ve expressed how we feel to our man, in a way he can hear – comes the trusting part.

    IF he is the man for you – he’ll figure out what he needs to do – without any more help from you.

    We run into trouble when we believe we need to help him figure it out. When we believe he doesn’t know how – or he somehow needs more from us before he can make up his mind. If we go into his past or story of…”He had this bad experience so that’s why he does this, or he grew up this way so this is his pattern.”

    To be able see him as whole and a complete person (just as you are), is a gift to him and to yourself.

    We give up our power when:

    We stay too long hoping he’ll change.
    When we think if we said the exact right thing or did the exact right thing – he’d realize how amazing we are.
    When we don’t express how we feel in fear of pushing him away – or we keep expressing how we feel hoping he’ll change.
    When we trust him before trusting ourselves.

    From Tereana – “I want to be in my power. I want to be able to speak up for what I want and need AND let the man know and feel that he is in control of all of his stuff and that he can come to and is safe.”

    The next time you’re questioning whether or not you’re in your Power with your man (or anyone else) – ask yourself these 5 questions.

    1. Have I expressed how I feel in a way he can hear?
    2. Am I focused on creating a life I love and doing things I love – that have nothing to do with him (or anyone else)?
    3. Have I said or done anything that was unloving?
    4. Have I said or done anything that felt like “pushing my agenda?”
    5. If after a certain amount of time (your timeline) things don’t feel better, do I trust myself enough to walk away from a relationship that doesn’t make me feel safe, secure, cherished, and loved?

    If you can answer – yes, yes, no, no, yes – you’re in your power. 🙂

    I hope this helps!!

    Love, Leigha

  315.  #315Leigha Lake on April 19, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Labbit – 307 – You said it brilliantly!!!!! 🙂

    Thank you Feminine Woman and Azure for sharing my email. I feel honored!!! 🙂

  316.  #316Beloved on April 19, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    I feel totally at a loss as to how to create/generate/get asked on multiple dates a week consistently.

    Everything pretty much dried up with online dating, even though I’ve updated my profiles. The last interaction I had, some guy just lashed out at me, venting his frustration that women (*gasp*) are different from each other with different preferences and he keeps trying to please everyone and nobody is happy and it must be because I am stupid and crazy.

    Which reminds me of recent thoughts on RoomieJ, where I feel that she dumped some of her anger towards TG that she can’t express to him, on me.

    I don’t understand what is going on, and, along with my practice of gratitude and appreciation, my mantra has been, “I am willing to release the pattern in my consciousness that has created these experiences”.
    Over, and over, and over.

  317.  #317Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    308 Mistea1 — That is so great!!! I’m feeling your positive vibes from here lady and it’s wonderful.

    311 Azure Blu — Totally agree. He is a great cheerleader for women, and while I don’t agree with everything he says, I see that he is right nearly all the time. 🙂

  318.  #318Sassy on April 19, 2015 at 12:34 pm


    Believe me I feel that loneliness! I am only a few years younger than you, but I am extremely introverted and an ultra sensitive person. I work at home and have very little social interaction. So I know how it feels to lose those that you thought were friends.

    I have been in an off and on “relationship” with a man for over 5 years. We are both emotionally unavailable (yes I totally recognize that) and have been on a roller coaster ride that is exhilarating and frustrating. However, I will say that he has changed (for the better) in the past year. We do have the opposite energy exchange for the most part, he is a feminine energy male and I am the male energy, although I’m working hard to reverse that where and when I can.
    I do love him dearly but at this point in time, I accept that tomorrow with him is never guaranteed so I make the most of any time I do spend with him.
    I love reading everyone’s journey. It has taken me almost my entire life to allow myself to FEEL my feelings and recognize what feelings are what and to express them is difficult but I’m getting there, slowly but surely.
    So hang with us Azure, we won’t abandon you or reject you.

  319.  #319Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    312 Beloved — Yeah, I totally hear you on this. This was the hardest part for me and my sister for the longest time. For me it was because I was getting attached to one guy too quickly, to where I couldn’t keep my heart open to more than one man at a time. For my sis, it was because her online dating photos weren’t great (and she’s BEAUTIFUL so it was all the more tragic) and her profile was not written well.

    The thing is you don’t need to beautiful to succeed at online dating. You need a realistic mindset and you need a profile that will intrigue men, with decent photos. Once you have these things and you see the response you get, it almost feels like “OF COURSE — WHY DIDN’T I DO THIS ALL SOONER?!?”

    At the risk of sounding like a total shill, LOL, EMK’s Finding the One Online program was what turned things around for my sis. He starts with how to get into the right onset for online dating, and has step-by-step explanations of how to write a killer profile, what kind of photos work/don’t work, and even exercises on how to write or reply to first messages. The program was written several years ago so some of the dating sites mentioned are outdated, but the info itself is still a gold mine.

    The response my sis gets now is AMAZING. I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned this but I used to write online dating profiles as a side job. 🙂 So I have a pretty good idea of what works/doesn’t work, and my sis’s profile — which she wrote herself using the EMK guidelines — is one of the best I’ve ever seen. Believe it or not even today men DO spend time reading profiles, and the easier you make it for them to write to you, the more messages and interest you’ll get.

    There are services where you can hire someone to write a killer online profile for you. It’s hard to summarize what a good profile has in a nutshell, but I can tell you that the biggest mistake people make (both men and women) is talking about themselves, their interests and their hobbies like it’s some kind of resume. But a dating profile is not a resume. In fact the LESS you talk about yourself and your accomplishments, the better. (Especially as a woman who wants to be the feminine-energy partner.) Pretend like you’re at a party and you’re in a circle talking to a few strangers. What kind of stuff would you talk about with them? Tell interesting stories about things you’ve done and what your passions are. And so on.

    Beloved, I have gotten notes like the ones you’re describing on dating sites. Don’t even worry about them. They are not indicative of your attractiveness, nor did you do anything to attract that kind of mail. Just forget about it. I am so sure that you could have the kind of profile that would help you get to multiple dates a week if that’s what you want, if you are open to learning how and investing in the process. 🙂

  320.  #320Labbit on April 19, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Oops, the right *mindset* for online dating, not onset. LOL.

  321.  #321Millie on April 19, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    I feel very low energy and just listless today. Had a great night but still felt my man’s memory tagging along. I miss him. I want things to be how they were, but I know they can’t be. Do you ladies remember Mechanic? I know Femininewoman does. Well last week he told me he was super attracted to me but I’m a nervous person. I told him I was nervous around him because when we first met I liked him and wanted a relationship but it was clear he didn’t and I wasn’t strong enough in myself to say that and be it. So last night he was at the event and we talked for awhile. He told me that I am so beautiful and ridiculously attractive. ThAt the other girls in our scene are less attractive but they beleive that they are the hottest thing in the planet. And I don’t. He also said that he never knew I had liked him. I thought it was so obvious. He said no. It wasn’t. I said we slept together obviously I liked you… He said not necessarily. So it’s nice to have clear communication with him now. I don’t feel the same way about him at all. But he shares a lot with me and I do feel, as I always did, that we are able to have conversation and there is something good about us. But now I think it’s a friendship. We could have a great friendship. He came home with me and spent the night but we just sat on the couch and talked and went to bed. He held me and told me how relaxed I felt to him. That my body just melted. I don’t feel nervous anymore. We didn’t do anything which I’m glad about. Just held me and slept. I felt myself missing **** , wishing he was next to me. That maybe id wake up and he would be there again. Mechanic kept reaching out and draping my arm across him, touching my toes with his. He didn’t try anything and neither did I. I don’t know what to say about that really…. I just feel like I’m existing today, floating. I know it will get better and I will feel better. It’s just so up and down.

  322.  #322Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    Things will surely be up and down for awhile…
    Your are doing really well…
    going out… trying to have fun…
    Cding with Mechanic!!!
    We are here to support YOU@@\\!!!

  323.  #323Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Sassy #314
    Thank you for sharing YOUR story…
    so lovely to read your journey… especially given we are close in age…
    Thank you for your support also..

  324.  #324Mistea1 on April 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    It was so beautiful. I went to the recital this afternoon. Perfection, sublime. etc.etc.

    I had made a request last Sept. for a certain Bach piece and today it was on the program!!

    I love certain Irish love songs, and today they were on the program!!!

    I wrote a note asking if he would end the pieces in a certain way and he did!!!

    However, I did not approach him afterward. I will write a two word note when I come in on Tuesday. Much as I would like to make a big fuss, be enthusiastic I can not.

    So that’s my results for 3 months of no contact. He approached me yesterday and today was the program. I accept this and It is enough. I leaned forward plenty with the request note and he complied. I can die now as I am already in heaven!

    Golly, I sound like my goofy teenaged self don’t I.

  325.  #325Linda on April 19, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    Labbit @ 308 I really appreciated what you shared. It is a great explanation in of a the basic tools on deeper advance level. Dialing things down even further to develop the art of leaning back is what I what I feel I need to practice and become fluent in.

  326.  #326Linda on April 19, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    Wow Millie. How interesting that Mechanic is suddenly in your picture. I can remember that is was no that long ago that you so focused on him and now his attention does not really matter. What is the universe up to?

  327.  #327Lavender on April 19, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    I read a bit of what you’re going through and had to respond because I went through something similar last year. My Boyfriend who I fell HARD for left me for an ex. I guess here was still emotional stuff there. Then he came back to me, which lasted about a month (she had moved out of the country) and he told me he was thinking about moving to try to work on things with her. I was so hurt, I was sure he was my dream man, the one I’ve been waiting for. We had a deep connection I had never felt before. Like we could just BE when we were around each other. Anyway he kept trying to contact me and see me and had stupid little excuses like he needed to give me back something of mine he had found in his apt. He told me he loved me and was just super confused and didn’t know what to do. I told him to follow his heart, I told him that I don’t want a man who doesn’t want me above anyone else. A man who isn’t sure about me ( this is all before learning Rori’s tools so I probably would word it different today) I kept hoping he would choose me. But he kept in his confused “I want you, but I’m still choosing her” state. Next time he texted me he asked me out for drinks, I so wanted to say yes, but told him I can’t be friends with him as long as there are romantic feelings there and that we shouldn’t be in contact. I then blocked him in social media, deleted his contact info (not to hurt him but to disconnect myself and not be tempted) and worked on me. I wrote about the things I liked about him and what I hoped to find in my future relationship. I reminded myself that if he chose her then he and I just aren’t meant to be an dip that I would find my perfect man when the time is right. I met that man only 1 month later, but did not relize it because I was so caught up in missing this guy. My eyes weren’t open to the fact that everything I wanted in a man was in this guy I was just dating till someone better came along. When I finally relished what I had I was greatful I lost the ex. This person I found was everything and more. I could have probably convinced the ex to stay, play the right games, keep him wanting me. But it would have ended in heartache anyway and I would have missed this great man.
    I know it’s not the same situation, but you never know what can happen when yoi truly let go and see what new things life has to offer.

  328.  #328Lavender on April 19, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    And, who knows. He may come back, but true,y be open to whatever comes will come. You have to truly let go on a deeper inside level. I would love him from a distance and wish him the best wherever his path will lead him. And truly believe in the fact that if we are open love finds it’s way into our lives again

  329.  #329Sophie on April 19, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    Lavendar – it feels so nice to read that story

    Azure Blu – that feels hurtful and you sound like you’re being very brave so ‘go you’. I read somewhere recently that the higher our vibration starts to go the more those who aren’t up to speed with us just drop away. I wish for more loving and positive and fun friends for you….soon! (((hugs))))

    Millie – ugh yes riding those up and down waves but you sound like you are doing great and just keep going – things are going to turn out better than can be imagined for all of us I’m sure (as per Lavendar) – I love Linda’s comment to you too – what is the universe up to!

    Mistea – I also ‘think’ you are doing so wonderfully – I want to clap and cheer us all for the growing we are doing and how everyone is such an inspiration and teacher to me.

    We deserve the absolute best – yay! And we WILL get to the point of attracting it, recognising it and being ready for it (as per Labbit’s very helpful post)

  330.  #330Kim on April 19, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    303 Labbit totally agree with that.
    What you describe and what you did, I did the same and experienced the same thing. Dating so much not onky made me feel that there are plenty of men out there, and plenty of men who would love to date me, marry me etc., it also prepared me for relationship in the way that there is simply no way I could come on too strong or get totally stuck on a man who is not relationship able or willing, or not 100% into me.
    I found the same…not only does CDing smoke out the ambiguous guys – they have to work harder and you see quickly that many are just in it for the ride, literally lol, it also gives us the opportunity to meet many men….not all are a fit, not all are good men, not all even if they are a fit and good men will work out, but it removes the urgency and scarcity thinking/feeling and the pining, once we understand that the pining over a man is just us beating ourselves up. And using some poor ambiguous or even uninterested man to do it for us – the beating ourselves up.
    CDing is a great tool…and I think it has prepared me for relationship. Not everythign feels smooth in my life, no, but I do have a guy who is 100% into me, in my face, wants to make this work….and if I hadn’t CD’d I’d still be stuck on some exciting unavailable Buffoon whom I would pine for at night and craft feeling messages out for …lol..no thanks.
    So happy to have understood that there is nothing to do but be ourselves and the right guy will come to us and offer us – we accept or we carry on with the search. It really is *that* easy.

  331.  #331Femininewoman on April 19, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    Millie keep going and believing things will get better. I am over here rooting for you.

  332.  #332prplpsn28 on April 19, 2015 at 8:33 pm


  333.  #333Indigo on April 19, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    Labbit 303,

    I thought someone might disagree with me and that’s totally fine! As much as I understand and support the concept of CDing many men at a time for most women, things get more complicated for those of us who are highly sensitive. I’m not going to disagree with you because I totally support everything you are saying, but for me it got very overwhelming at times. And I’m not talking about just fitting the men in. Anyway, as I said I support it and I have chosen a slightly different path for myself!

  334.  #334Beloved on April 19, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    omg I just had a confusing and charged interaction with RoomieJ.
    I feel shakey and trembling.
    omg omg this is what dealing with my younger self must have been like.
    It felt challenging to not get defensive even though I felt totally riled up.
    She was telling me all about myself, telling me I wouldn’t hear her side of the story even though I asked her for it and stayed quiet. I repeated back to her every complaint she had about me to be sure I had it right, said thank you, anything else?
    At the point she began putting words in my mouth and accusing me of stuff I have no experience of myself doing and that I have seen HER do, I finally told her, I hear that you want to resolve and fix the problem, I appreciate that and I don’t want to talk to you anymore.
    She stormed out saying, “a 25 year old, and a 50 year old, who is the more mature one? ME” and slammed my door behind her. Which makes me lol now.
    Then she TEXTED me AGAIN, after a whole conversation about NOT WANTING ANY MORE TEXTS FROM HER.
    THEN she came creeping back and knocking on my door saying she hoped I had a good night.

    What I feel bewildered by, is how THREATENED I felt and how charged my reaction was.
    I wonder if it was because I told her I didn’t want to talk and then kept talking to her anyway to hear her out.
    No, it started before that. I came upstairs and it was pitch black and she was standing in the dark in the hallway between me and the door to my room, my heart rate immediately went up.

    I’m really shaking and feeling cold now.

    omg I hate hate HATE to say and think this about people, especially females, and what’s going through my mind is crazy crazy cray cray omg!!!!! The woman is CRAY ZEEEE.
    I want her to stay so far away from meeeee!!
    Like, how is she going to slam my door on the way out, insulting me, and then come creeping back telling me in a small voice she really hopes I have a nice night?

    I feel like I could probably use some better conflict resolution skills…and…is there really an effective way to deal with someone like this?

    Hmmm….maybe …it’s for me to see that I need to forgive others for not being able to deal with ME better when I was younger and seeing it wasn’t so easy…?

    I don’t know.
    I feel so befuddled right now. I’m like…what just happened????

  335.  #335Beloved on April 19, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    It’s kind of wild how perfectly metaphorical it was, meeting her in the dark like that.
    I am remembering a dream from a long time ago of a crazed black woman.

    I feel a lot calmer now.
    I do feel a sweetness and I don’t want to feel at odds with her and I don’t feel that I handled it very well.
    I feel like telling her, that we can talk later and that I didn’t like feeling confronted in the dark and didn’t like feeling pressured after I already said I didn’t want to talk, that I’m not going to like whatever response I get back.

  336.  #336Emerson on April 19, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    Hi sirens !!
    I’ve missed you…I do need to catch up on this blog and what is new with all the sirens ….
    I have been focusing on work and sort of “given up” on finding “the one”…..im considering just having a causal sexual relationship with CutecityCD ….
    Something I never would have considered before…

  337.  #337Emerson on April 19, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    I also have a date with a newguy from the dating site and I have absolutely zero expectations. I find myself feeling a little numb and maybe indifferent….
    I’m feeling shocked at the thoughts that are going through my mind like instead of feeling dreamy and like this might be lovey dovey feeling… I find myself thinking more along the lines of “what’s in it for me?” And by that I mean how much money does he have.
    Not sure I recognize myself right now.
    Thanks for letting me be raw and honest. Comments welcome.

  338.  #338Azure Blu on April 19, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Kim #329
    This is sooo cool to read!!
    Thank you for sharing your inspiring Siren melody!!

  339.  #339Kim on April 20, 2015 at 3:46 am

    332 Indigo, I understand this, after many years of womdering what is wrong with me (light noise, crowds etc), I am comin to the conclusion that I may be one of thise sensitives also, and honestly, I think a lot of women are…many I know….and I have had trouble with the CDing also, but I believe it can actually help develop oneself, no matter how sensitive or non-sensitive, I am not sure it is mutually exclusive…women who CD are not rough and insensitive and coldhearted dogs like Victoria jokingly said up there. I think this is an old stereotype in our brains that has been installed there by men….lol….you know the whole thing about them being a stud and us being sl*ts, doing the same things.
    I think especially us sensitives get stuck on men too easily because of how womderfully sensitive and feeling and intuitive we are, hence CDing is even better for us.
    Not easy, but most things in life don’t come easily.
    Like Labbit says in the end it is about numbers….and about stretching oneself..not forcing but gently.
    It’s possible. Removing the mental block to it is important, and I had it at many points….in the end it’s all in the mind.xoxo

  340.  #340Kim on April 20, 2015 at 4:06 am

    It’s not always fun…life is not always fun…a degree is also not always fun but it helps us get to places in life.
    Like CDing.
    Honestly, I had the most reservations against it when I was still stuck on MrP..because nobody ever matched up…until I realised that most of them did more than match up, and I had engaged him to beat me up.
    Others treated me better but I didn’t ‘love’ them..I was bored, underhwelmed, irritated a lot of the time when CDing..and some men just really weren’t good for me, sure…but
    I now knkw whatever happens, I would always go back to it…and believe me ladies, most of the time I am happy curled up with a book and a glass of wine and going to bed at 10pm. The point is, I never wanted to be alone for the rest of my life, or worse be with someone who is ambiguous….so now I do see it like everythign else, to a certain extent one has to put some work into finding a mate…or even into solidifying what we have in a mate…to find out if our relationship can go the distance..
    The interesting thing is that when I am CDing and not focused on my relationship so much, my relationship improves..the less I sit thinking about it or thinking about what to say, or how to get to this and that point, the more it just happens naturally….so CDing has actually helped my relationship.
    I think it is great when a man realises a woman has plenty of options and chooses him, I believe it turns him on. Rather than having someone who is so focused on him and the relationship that everything becomes a big deal…so in that respect I have to say CDing with other men (not necessarily romantically but just CDing everyone and everything) is something, that might not even stop when in a relationship…
    My guy has this fantasy of being at a beach with me topless lol and he says he would feel turned on my all the men lookig at me (haha..my chicken breasts?!) and him knowing that he has me. Lol.
    Just goes to show….Made me laugh.
    Most men don’t want a wallflower who is sitting at their feet 24/7, they like a bit of spunk in a woman, I believe, and are turned on by one who chooses only the best among a lot of suitors….him. I believe CDing ramps up the attraction.
    I never believed it but it has happened in my life…I think my guy was very much ambivalent in the beginning, he will even admit this…but he kinda hung in there and was impossible to shake off. That’s the kinda man who will show up with CDing while a lot of others drop off…
    I understand not everybody likes the idea, but this is why we all came here in the first place, to heal from an unavailable man, or a bad relationship, let’s face it.
    If you have a sickness you take the medication, otherwise it becomes chronic…and Rori has been the medication for me, and many women I know….and I have to say, I have directed many of my girlfriends here and the ones who resisted the whole concept are either still alone or in an unhappy situation chasing a man….

  341.  #341Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 4:10 am

    I love the discussion.
    See, for a natural extrovert (me) who has natural tendencies to have more than one boyfriend at a time, the concept of CDing was like a higher blessing so something I want to do anyway.
    I have noticed that to introverts, this idea is like pulling teeth.
    I have tried to tell a number of real life friends that they simply need to meet more men, get online etc. I get the replies like 1) I will never love another like the last one who treated me like sh*t 2) all the good ones are taken 2) there are more important things in life.
    This blog was a statistical distribution of such opinions that basically mirrors my real life experience.
    Also, my friends who know how relaxed I am about dating than more man at a time have an attitude to me that is, shall I say, forgiving, or non-judgemental to this, but only because it is me, othewise in principle most women I know in real life really think good girls date only one man at a time, best of all, one man for their whole life time. Urrrrrgh.

  342.  #342Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 5:17 am

    Also, not everyone wants to get a degree. Some people are totally unmotivated about education. I find it difficult to understand, but I know it is objectively true, and the few times I have tried to talk to peope who, in my humble opinion would see a dramatic improvement in their quality of life by going to school, they come up with all sorts or reasons, some valid, some ludicrous.
    I just googled educational levels… See for your self: Germany: only around 27% have university degee. How strange is that.

  343.  #343Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Also, not everyone wants to get a degree. Some people are totally unmotivated about education. I find it difficult to understand, but I know it is objectively true, and the few times I have tried to talk to peope who, in my humble opinion would see a dramatic improvement in their quality of life by going to school, they come up with all sorts or reasons, some valid, some ludicrous.
    I just googled educational levels… See for your self: Germany: only around 27% have university degee. How strange is that.
    I tried to post the link but it sent my comment into moderation.

  344.  #344Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 6:16 am

    Victoria I tend to believe that women who equate dating with having sex or at least assume that they have to have sex with a guy they are dating are women who tend to think that way. Most times when sex is not in the picture we don’t get hung, so we don’t feel like we are cheating. The guilt that comes with cheating can stall us in our tracks and get us back to being the good girl. Whatever that looks like to the individual.

  345.  #345Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 6:22 am

    I did not undestand the first sentence. Actually, I did not understand the second one either. Can you try to say it differently?
    I kind of suspect you do not agree with me, but I am not sure why 🙂

  346.  #346IamHis on April 20, 2015 at 6:29 am

    It really is okay to feel emotions and make mistakes. I feel good, silly, playful, open.

    Did you ladies know that 98.6% of statistics are made up on the spot?

  347.  #347Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 6:39 am

    Victoria I was basically saying I agree with you. Women who don’t feel obligated to have sex with a guy seem to me to be more open to cdate. Good girls stereotypically don’t sleep around.

  348.  #348Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Good girls in their 40s tend to have a more relaxed view on goodness, I hope 🙂

  349.  #349Labbit on April 20, 2015 at 7:16 am

    339 Kim — I love what you’ve said here, very intriguing thoughts about men being turned on when they know that we have options and have chosen them, as opposed to waiting around for them to choose us. I can quickly scan my own history and see how right you are about this, and it’s changing my views even more…

    345 Femininewoman — What was so interesting for me is that I was a woman who felt obligated to have sex with a man after a certain number of dates…really, I had the mistaken belief that sex was what hooked a man to you. That incorrect belief led me to more than one heartbreaks. So weirdly one of the ways the RapidCDing really helped me was to see how to stand in my own confidence without using sex to weird my power.

    One week for example I went on three dates, and all three of the men offered me sex! So it became purely a logistical issue…I didn’t want to have sex with all three, so I had to tell at least two of them no. (I ended up telling all three of them no because there was yet another guy I was more interested in getting to that level with.) But I had to learn very quickly how to say no without each man feeling rejected, something which I DID NOT know how to do previous to that week. It was trial by fire, and I did well with two of them and likely blew it with one. With the two where I did well I can see how it raised my value in their eyes, because I told them that yes I really, really wanted them but I wasn’t ready to take that step yet, I still had to decide whether I saw them as lovers and potential boyfriends or not. Afterwards I remember feeling like, WOW, I can decide when these steps happen. I don’ t have to just follow along with a guy’s whims. The lessons I learned have stayed with me to this day.

  350.  #350Azure Blu on April 20, 2015 at 7:29 am

    Mmmmm… the “good girl” part is throwing me off…
    mainly because I believe it is a male label and hopefully is in the trash where it belongs…
    that term was used when I was in High school
    I see what you mean about having s*x/not having s*x
    when cding… and whether it would make it more difficult to cd more than 1

  351.  #351Azure Blu on April 20, 2015 at 7:33 am

    LOL!!! made me laugh!!!
    Good point!!!

  352.  #352Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 7:38 am

    Labbit yep. We get to feel our power.

    Azure just like guys label themselves “good guy”, girls label themselves too. So many times the “good girl” label is a mindset/belief women developed because of their socialization.

  353.  #353Azure Blu on April 20, 2015 at 7:43 am

    in high school, where I was, “good girl”
    this term meant you slept around… you were easy…

  354.  #354Victoria on April 20, 2015 at 7:51 am

    In my experience, men do not get insulted if you do not want to sleep with them.
    I mean, it has actually been quite a while since I had a discussion of this type, but where I live, after a certain number of dates they will kind of expect it, and if you say no, some will weed themselves out, some will keep trying, and some will become platonic friends.
    I am trying to think of someone pressurizing me for s*x but it has not happened since my 1990s. The men I have slept with in the last 10 years or so, I was equally, or even more enthusiastic to jump their bones. See what age has done to me, lol.

  355.  #355Indigo on April 20, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Kim 338,

    Thank you for this, and the gentleness with which you said it, and the very last thing that I think is that women who CD many men are insensitive, rough and cold hearted dogs. I know I’ve recommended dating several men to many women on this blog, to friends, and have taken this advice myself at times. So I’m not going to attempt to explain again or reiterate that I agree that it’s a good strategy, because I think I’ve said this. As I said, I’ve done it myself – for 2 or 3 years I dated multiple men without ever really getting attached and I learnt a lot – and for the time in my life it was just what I needed.

    I just think it’s more finely nuanced than what you and Labbit make it out to be… and that’s ok. My experience doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone. I’m not going to attempt to explain why my particular way that I’ve chosen to live my life and to CD makes me happy and why the model that you and Labbit propose doesn’t altogether work for me… but suffice it to say that I’ve found a way of being feminine that deeply respects my needs and sensitive nature and still allows me to expand to the world and do what’s best for me. I DO Circular Date the world, and I have several male friends that I hang out with regularly… just Saturday night I was out with a guy friend and we had such great conversation and he insisted on paying for me. And yesterday another dear male friend visited me and we had a great visit – this kind of circular dating is a regular part of my life, as well as just being open to the world and all it’s beauty and increasing my vulnerability.

    I can assure you I have considered this from every angle, including the ones you have mentioned, and I am happy with the way I am doing it. I don’t in the least feel like I am losing out. On the contrary, I feel VERY blessed by my life and the relationships I have. D showed himself to be an absolutely wonderful man and a pillar of strength this last week when I was having all my difficulties, and he took such great care of me. I barely had to lift a finger.

  356.  #356Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Victoria I can saw that for at least one he felt rejected. However I know his history so I know it was only triggering past memories. It didn’t push him away though. I believe he had expectations and when he guided me in that direction and I didn’t follow he basically ended the date saying he didn’t wan to be selfish and keep me out any later.

  357.  #357Liquid Light on April 20, 2015 at 8:22 am

    I had a fantastic date with M. He’s the one that I’ve seen off and on for the last 9 months, mostly off. We finally got together again yesterday for a hike and a bite to eat. It was a beautiful day and it was so easy to be around him. He’s really such a doll, a very sweet man, and also very successful. But not full of himself at all. We had a delicious dinner after the hike (unexpected) and it was so good. Then he drove me back home and we made out in his car in the parking lot for a little while afterwards. Hahaha!!! It was so fun. I haven’t kissed anyone like that in ages!

  358.  #358Indigo on April 20, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Leigha 313,

    Thank you SO much for this! I found it incredibly helpful!!

  359.  #359Indigo on April 20, 2015 at 9:29 am

    (((Beloved))) 333,

    Wow, this brings back memories for me of similar interactions – someone creating conflict, projecting their stuff onto you because they feel out of control. It’s so scary, because it invariably blindsides you, there’s no logic to it, nothing you can predict or feel like you could have “handled” in order to prevent it.

    I’ve had many episodes with my mom like this, and more recently, a female friend who also enjoyed using text messaging to work herself up and I would be left holding my phone thinking “What the wha..?”

    I eventually found that gentle but very firm boundaries was the way to go. Clear, calm, telling them that if they think they are going to use you for their personal punching bag they are very much mistaken. Sorry you are going through this – I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.

  360.  #360Beloved on April 20, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Indigo – oh, that’s it, the feeling out of control, thank you for helping me see that! And, I understand why.

    And – this was super fun – I peer counseled with a friend this morning about it and sank deeper and deeper into my feelings about what I heard. Eventually, through breathing and relaxing and coming back to my feelings, I hit this spot where this thought came up of “Well, if (what she accused me of) is the worst thing someone can say about me, that’s pretty good, actually. That’s amazing, actually, because I used to be batsh!t NUTS.”

    I dissolved into tears, laughing and crying back and forth, and eventually laughing and laughing about it, which felt good and warm and yummy. 😀

    It all just goes to remind me useless it is, in relationship, to tell a person all about themselves, to try to get the other person to change.

    It feels best to get off the subject and get back on my horse. My life needs meeeeee!!!

  361.  #361Millie on April 20, 2015 at 10:33 am

    I was talking to my cousin last night, telling him about my “break up” and all the things my guy is going through. My cousin said wow, well that would explain some of his emotional dysfunction. Parents going through a divorce. Very sick mother. His job politics. My cousin suggested if I feel strongly about the relationship to give him a call and leave a message about how I feel… That if we can work things out that would be a conversation I would want to have.

    I really do want to talk to him and in my gut I don’t think this is over. But I don’t know, my whole head and body just hurts.

  362.  #362Labbit on April 20, 2015 at 10:43 am

    Don’t do it Millie. I am sure your cousin means well but this man has moved away from you. Pushing yourself further and further into his space in the energy bubble is only going to push him away even more. You have to have the confidence in YOURSELF to allow a man not only to come closer, but also move away as he chooses.

    He’s taken space and the reason why doesn’t matter. Nothing you can say to him will change things. You need to pretend like it’s as much your idea as it is his that he’s backing away right now. He’s doing what he wants to do. He’s not contacting you right now because he doesn’t want to.

    You’ve taken so many steps to build up your personal confidence level, don’t let the panic of old behaviors win out. You’re in the unknown now and your brain is just trying to fill in that new space being created with what it knows, and until now what it knew is desperation and leaning forward.

    Give yourself the opportunity to create new, healthier behaviors. You can do this!!

    Here’s an article from Leigha I love that may help:

  363.  #363Kim on April 20, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Victoria, yes….well I couldn’t think of a better example than degree although I agree, not everyone wants/needs a degree and can or will be perfectly happy.
    I am kinda talking of those that whinge or are unhappy but don’t wanf to take the steps necessary to improving their lives, for example (don’t shoot the messenger), how many ladies on this blog are currently stuck on a man who is not suiting them and wallowing in that. That’s fine. However, we are all here to turn that off, learn and be happy with a good man who wants to give us the world.
    How do we get there?
    I don’t believe we get there by tossing our pearls before swine and then trying to change the swine into princes with the ‘perfect’ feeling messages, being the perfect siren and just continually working on ourselves…of course we have to do the inner work, but we also have to stop getting stuck on men who wouldn’t save us if we drowned.
    I believe once that switch flicked, there is no going back.
    The easiest way to get the man stuckness and bad picker switch to flick is to date and date…because eventually one will come across someone who is suited, it really is a numbers game, and by then we have had enough free therapy from the other men to know what works and what doesn’t.
    It’s a little bit like all the excuses we have for not going to the gym, not eating well, not looking after our financial health…if we don’t put the work or attitude that gets us places, into our life, there will always be an excuse for anything.
    At the end of the day, it is up to us.
    If we don’t want to challenge ourselves and don’t want to grow, fine, then we stay where we are…and can moan about it for years to come.

  364.  #364Millie on April 20, 2015 at 11:18 am

    Labbit thank you for that article, it’s a really good reminder of what works and what doesn’t. Yeah it’s probably better I don’t reach out. It could easily be perceived as convincing.

  365.  #365Kim on April 20, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Indigo, I agree to a certain extent, and I am so happy that your man is there for your in your hour of need and that you have everything you want. This is what matters most in the end.
    I know, I am at a different stage of life perhaps also, which explains why I have such strong feelings for CDing and also for me, regarding the relationship/marriage I would want, and I totally get that not everybody shares this view.
    Seriously, men are great, they love to look out for us when we have problems, they love to fix stuff, they love to help us…this may mean they are interested in the same type of relationship as we would like, it may mean they are not.
    Look at my guy, he was still helping his ex with all sorts and dating me. I am sometimes wondering about that actually…lol…I am wondering how she saw their ‘relationship’ and whether she even knew he was dating me. I don’t think so.
    I also know that MrP, if I had any kind of emergency, would be here at 3am if I needed him to, and he has been on occasions. I love men that can be counted on. For relationship, he would be utter disaster.
    I am feeling very lucky to have someone who is committed and can be counted on, I am just saying that if I hadn’t CD’d I am not sure we would even have gotten here…who knows. He might still be ambiguous because I might have put my focus on him? Hard to tell. I do think we tend to put pressure on a man once we have made our mind up, regardless if he has come to the same conclusion or not, which is why it feels good to me to keep my mind open…
    At the end what matters, I say it once again, is that we have the relationship we want, whether it is uncommitted and a convenient lover type situation or committed/marriage whatever…whatever makes us happy. I guess this is why we all came here.

  366.  #366Labbit on April 20, 2015 at 11:28 am

    Yeah Millie, you’ve got this!!! Big (((hugs))) to you. I hope you can see all the steps forward you’ve taken, I see so much growth and new loveliness in you. Regardless of what has happened/will happen with this one man, I hope that you will give yourself some bigtime kudos for all the ways you’ve grown in this short period of time.

    I have been in your shoes more times than I want to count. Try to remember that your brain is in survival mode right now — it has made this man seem necessary to your survival (when really he’s not), so your brain is doing everything it can to find evidence that you should reach out, should contact him, should run towards him. But you don’t need to do ANYTHING. That’s why your head hurts and your body aches — you’re building new pathways in your brain, and your brain is fighting back. This time feels so tough, I know, but it won’t last long. And you will feel so MUCH BETTER once these new paths are built in your mind.

    Let go of needing to do anything anytime you feel the urge. Love on those urgent feelings instead. Tell yourself that it’s OK, that you’re taking excellent care of yourself and you won’t let yourself down. Allow yourself to be open and be surprised. Embrace these temporary headaches as growth spurts…and know that they will pass.

  367.  #367Indigo on April 20, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Thanks, Kim. The truth is, I trust myself, and I trust myself to know what’s right for me. Maybe it will be this relationship in a year’s time, maybe it won’t. I think so, I hope so, and I’m open to where my life takes me.

  368.  #368Millie on April 20, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Thanks Labbit,
    I feel good knowing I can come here for solutions that work and for encouragement. Leighas article said that if a man needs space and breaks things off, most likely it something I did that made him feel that he needs to do that.

    I have 80 messages on pof but I feel in no mood to go out with anyone. I’m leaving the country on sat for a week for work. I’m sure that will do me a world of good.

    An interesting thing happened yesterday, Mechanic called me and said he wanted to apologize for spending the night, that it was the wrong of him and he didn’t want to hurt my feelings or lead me on. I was floored and had to laugh a little. I feel so happy that he had the courage and integrity to do that. He just went through a break up also but he decided to give it another shot. I told him that I didn’t want to hurt his feelings either but that my feelings for him have changed over time and I see him as a good friend that I’m happy to spend time with. I’m glad nothing happened that night because I don’t think either of us would have felt good about it. That I appreciated him calling and am happy we can have this level of honesty with each other now. It was so surprising and gives me hope that there are men that can step up and be honest. How very timely.

  369.  #369Liquid Light on April 20, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    I had an awesome date yesterday with M. He’s the one I’ve seem on and off for the last few months, mostly off. We finally got together again after not seeing each for 3 weeks (we’ve both been sick) and had a great time together. We went on a hike and then he invited me for a bite to eat afterwards. He really is such a sweetheart and successful too (but has no ego about it.) I let my guard down and so did he and it all just flowed so naturally.

    Then when I got back, I somehow had lost my phone. I had no idea what happened and guessed that it had fallen out of my backpack somewhere. He went back to the restaurant and trailhead to check but no sign of it. Then miraculously someone called him from Goodwill today as it had been turned in there! I’m not sure how they got his number but must be a little angel and M looking out for me! I picked it up from Goodwill a few hours ago…And I was about to buy a new one after work today…He’s my hero! 🙂

  370.  #370Azure Blu on April 20, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    Liquid L
    this all sounds sooo wonderful.
    It just melts men’s hearts when we tell them
    they are our Hero!!!

  371.  #371Liquid Light on April 20, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Thanks Azure! Yeah, I’m excited! We’ll see what happens but it sure feels nice so far!

    Big hugs to you! 🙂

  372.  #372Azure Blu on April 20, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Labbit #363
    Mmmm… so deep and important!!!

    “But you don’t need to do ANYTHING. That’s why your head hurts and your body aches — you’re building new pathways in your brain, and your brain is fighting back. This time feels so tough, I know, but it won’t last long. And you will feel so MUCH BETTER once these new paths are built in your mind.”

    Short amount of pain for a lifetime of Self LOVE!!!

  373.  #373April Rose on April 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm


    Yesterday I read your wonderful comment about dating and have been pondering it ever since.

    I am looking for some clarity about it in my own life.

    I am seeing a man who may or may not be the right man for me. I agree with Dominique’s articles which say it takes time to get to know a man and see his true colours.

    Thing is, I am not dating anyone else. And I want to give myself the best chance of finding the best man for me. It could be the man I have now! And yet I want the chance to find out for sure, and to open myself to the possibility that there may be someone even more wonderful and suitable for me.

    Thing is, I’m not sure how to go about it. I get the profile-writing and the good photos thing, and yes I must do that.
    But what kind of script can I write to convey to the man I’m seeing that I’m a woman who must explore her options and give herself the best chance of being with the best partner I can find?

    This man seems ready to give me almost anything. Thing is, I don’t know if he is wanting me to fill his void. I want to experience lots of men so that I can tell the difference between the needy ones and the secure, fulfilled ones.

  374.  #374April Rose on April 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm


    I am seeing a man who doesn’t seem to have a great deal of confidence or self-esteem. He describes himself as ‘a mass of insecurities’.
    I have been triggered in his presence a couple of times (by my own fears) and both times, after a period of intense awkwardness and tension, we were able to break through it and talk until my heart opened again.

    His actions so far have been impeccable with me.

    Still, I worry because I think he may be looking for someone to fill a void. (Tho I guess we all are in a way.)

    I am beginning to ‘fill myself up to overflowing’ and spill out the excess love on the people in my life.

    My question is – do you think such a man as I’m describing could ‘heal along’ with me? Through my healing heart?
    My feeling is yes, it is possible.

    Although when I think about it I worry that I’m seeing through rose-tinted spectacles.

  375.  #375April Rose on April 20, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    I m breathing into the moment, remembering to be present.

    I know my mind is trying to get involved, make me worry, and create stories to spoil my current experiences.

    I am enjoying a man’s company. He has told me he is very much falling for me.

    I wake up in the mornings feeling terrified in my stomach.

    My mind tells me that it would feel so awful to move on from this man if he has bonded with me so much.
    Another part of me feels angry at myself for being ‘in his business’ like that, and that nobody knows yet whether this relationship is for life or else for a particular lesson for us both.

    I need to make peace with the thought that it may only be temporary.
    When I start to feel attachment to him (and there are moments) I get a sense of how awful and messy and painful it is to detach.
    And it makes me wish we all learned about relationships in life, and how not to invest ourselves to the point where the pain is so awful when things don’t work out.

    I need to trust that both he and I would be okay if it didn’t work out.

    Now I’m wondering where this feeling of pressure comes from and why I get such heaviness around this issue. I want to feel light and carefree getting to know someone. Not pre-empt breaking their heart.

    I just realised something. I attract ultra-sensitive men.

  376.  #376Lavender on April 20, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    I have a question; when using feeling messages, you ares supposed to say why you feel that right? That’s thinking masculine? But wouldn’t it create confusion as to what happened that triggered those emotions? Like if I’m feeling angry and frustrated he might think it’s because of something completely different than what caused those feelings…

  377.  #377Beloved on April 20, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Bottling up your anger or expressing it the wrong way can instantly result in a loss of intimacy in your relationship. Next time you’re inclined to either “tell him off” or “hold it in,” follow these steps and watch how they powerfully bring your man closer.

    Just letting out your feelings all over a man by “telling him off” will only push him away. And “stuffing down” your feelings by pretending (to him, or to yourself) that you feel something else will also create distance between you and a man. Here’s why…and what to do instead so you not only say what you really want, but you draw a man closer to you because of it.


    Our self-esteem depends on how honest we are with ourselves, and the moment we say or do something that is not being true to what’s really going on with us, our self-esteem goes down. And as our self-esteem goes down, we become less attractive. A man is naturally drawn to a woman who is in tune with her feelings and who has both the confidence and the self-love to NOT put up with what doesn’t feel good.

    Usually, we bottle up our anger so much that we wind up unleashing it on a man in a way he can’t hear – or we express anger about something completely different than what we’re actually angry about.

    If you’ve ever blown up at a man because he didn’t pick up after himself when you were actually craving more romance and attention from him, you know what I mean. You were really feeling angry about feeling unloved, not about his dirty socks.


    So, if we’re feeling hurt, disappointed and angry, how do we “let it out” truthfully in a way that increases his attraction to us and changes whatever is going on that made us angry in the first place?

    1. STOP. Interrupt whatever you’re about to do or say – it hasn’t worked before.

    2. Sit down. Don’t go somewhere else so he won’t see you.

    3. Take a deep breath. Let it out, and then breathe in and out two more times. Imagine the air flowing all the way down your body and relaxing each body part as it touches it.

    4. Find the feeling. Let’s say he made plans to do something else when you were hoping for a romantic evening. Know what the feeling is NOT: It’s NOT “I’m so glad you made other plans, because I really wanted to spend the evening alone washing my hair.” You know you feel BAD. You know you feel disappointed and angry.

    5.Tell the truth. Without saying the word “you” (which only serves to blame him and make him defensive), say: “I feel bad,” or “I feel disappointed,” or “I feel angry.”

    6. Don’t back down. You might feel vulnerable and afraid that you’ve gone too far. You haven’t. If he apologizes, thank him. And then say, “”I don’t like feeling bad (or disappointed or angry). It makes me feel turned off.”

    7. That’s it; you’re done. Listen to what he has to say, but don’t get into a discussion about it. Your goal here was simply to honor your feelings (and therefore yourself) by communicating your feelings to him.

    8. Immediately do something that makes you happy. It could be something as small as making yourself a cup of tea or going for a walk. The point is that you are taking care of yourself rather than expecting him to do so, which makes you even more attractive in his eyes.
    Lavender – does this clarify?


    Express Your Anger Without Pushing Him Away

    The next time you feel yourself welling up with anger and unsure about how to handle it, try the steps above. It takes practice to reverse long-standing patterns, but you can do it. Once you do, I know you’ll feel so much better about yourself – and so much more adored by the man in your life. The stronger you feel, the more the anger will dissolve, and you will discover a whole new level of intimacy in your relationship.

  378.  #378Labbit on April 20, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    370 April Rose — I love Kim’s response to you on the new thread. And I agree with her, if you are not exclusive with this man, I wouldn’t talk to him about dating other men AT ALL. It’d simply be something I’d do…with any man, for the first 3 or 4 months I assume he’s out there checking out other options, unless we’ve had a chat where he states otherwise or asks me for exclusivity. I’m not waiting around for him while he’s doing this…I’m out meeting men too. 🙂

    If you are exclusive with him, Rori’s programs have some great scripts for this. What you want to convey is that you’re not pressuring him, and you’re not asking him for commitment at this time. What you want is simply to keep yourself open to other men while you two are getting to know each other.

    Early on the only exclusivity I negotiate for is sexual exclusivity.

  379.  #379Lavender on April 20, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Thank you Beloved, that really does help. My issue is more about being triggered by something that reminds me how he hurt me in the past. It’s hard for me to clarify that I am angry or hurt without him thinking it’s something he did in that moment. I sometimes think i shouldn’t bring it up at all because it comes from my own issue if not being g fully healed about the past.
    The other day we were in the car and I has let my mind run away with itself and we asked me what was wrong. I said “nothing” nut realized that wasn’t true. So I said “sometimes things will trigger my sadness or insecurity about things that happened in the past” ” I have to work through that but you are being wonderful to me”. Now, I know this is not dealing messages, I was put on the spot and wanted to be honest instead of saying “nothing”. He feels my feelings, he told me this. How else could I have communicated what was going on?

  380.  #380Dominique on April 21, 2015 at 12:52 am

    April Rose – 371 – From what you say here, something really beautiful is seemingly growing and developing here. Life is can also feel messy and scary and confusing as can love. You can’t really know know now if this man will be able to heal through you. Yet by turning to him as you did and sharing so openly with such a lovely result, you have an excellent chance. Keep doing what you’re doing. From my experience of you over the time I’ve known you, you’ve healed and blossomed so very much. And this man will continue to come with you for the ride, or he won’t. And it seems deep down you already know you be more than okay no matter how this relationship unfolds.
    Love to you from Paris. That has to be good, right?

  381.  #381Dominique on April 21, 2015 at 12:59 am

    Lavender – In answer to your question, it would depend on circumstances and how you’re feeling whether you explain the reasons for why you think you’re feeling the way you are. In the case you cite, it seems to me sharing with him that you’re feeling the way you are because something old within you was triggered would be the best way to go. We can work on scripts when I get back if you wish.
    By the way I’m so sorry for typoing on your name in my reply back to you the other day.
    Love to you from Paris too.

  382.  #382April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 11:23 am


    I only remembered this morning that you are in Paris and so I didn’t expect a reply from you at all.

    Bless your sweet heart for taking time to respond to me here, whilst on your delicious romantic vacation.

    I certainly agree with you – a message from Paris has to be good! Indeed beautiful.
    Thank you, dear lady.

  383.  #383Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Lavender 326-

    Love your story and thanks for sharing it. I wanted to respond to this before but got busy. 🙂

  384.  #384Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    Labbit 304-

    I’m personally not against CDing at all. I think it can be a great idea. Sometimes I’m a little nervous it could upset a guy to the point where he doesn’t want to be with you though. So I guess I’d say it depends on the situation.

    I was feeling down in the dumps over S and even right now I am confused. It’s hard to even give another guy any kind of real chance. Like this weekend, all I wanted to do was cry anyhow.

    I worry that going out on dates with other guys will make him feel so jealous and upset that he won’t even give things with me a chance. That I will make any fears that I wouldn’t be faithful in the long run, worse. He’s so jealous of the Chicago guy already and seems to feel that it means I don’t really care about him as much as I say…but I really do. :/

  385.  #385Labbit on April 22, 2015 at 6:41 am

    381 Lovergirl — That’s just him projecting, when he seems to feel that it means you don’t care about him as much as he do. That’s his own fears coming outwards and hitting you…just like your fears of making him so upset he won’t give things a chance.

    TenderCD got really angry at me when I was CD’ing because he wasn’t stepping up. But it’s also what motivated him to claim me. Committing is a huge deal, and some men waver on it significantly. Any anger they feel over us putting ourselves first isn’t directed at us, even if it seems that way. It’s just old wounds they have inside coming to the surface.

  386.  #386Beloved on April 22, 2015 at 7:29 am

    3 Ways to Make Him Fall In Love With You


    3 Ways to Make Him Fall For You
    By Rori Raye

    Have you ever found yourself falling for a man you were dating and wondered if he was feeling the same way? Did you find yourself trying to prove what a great catch you are by being sweeter, funnier and smarter in hopes that he would fall in love with you? Focusing on what a man wants and ingratiating yourself in this way may feel like the natural thing to do, but it’s the worst way to try to make a man feel romantic love for you.

    Love isn’t a reasonable emotion – and being “nice” and “understanding” and “a good sport” won’t get you where you want to go. Here are some ways that will:

    Tip#1: Don’t give a man more than he gives you

    Love, and inspiring a man to fall in love with you forever, is all about you being able to receive love.

    Most of us only know how to give. We give for lots of reasons – because we’re taught that’s the way to get to a man’s heart (it isn’t) because we see other women do it, and because deep down, it feels uncomfortable and scary to be vulnerable enough to really get love.

    “A man is actually turned off when he gets more from you than he gives.”
    A man is actually turned off when he gets more from you than he gives. When you shower him with affection, attention, dinners, gifts, and always go out of your way to drive to his place, it makes him think of you as a mother or a friend instead of inspiring his emotional desire for you.

    Tip #2: Don’t give away exclusivity if he hasn’t yet committed

    We become totally, emotionally invested in a man when we’re exclusive with him because he has all our time and attention. There’s no way we can stop wondering about where the relationship is going. But the more we think about it and talk about it, the more we push a man away.

    When you can think of it in these terms, it’s easier to keep your options open and keep your personal power in the relationship. Rather than talking about the relationship or threatening him with ultimatums, you can continue to keep your options open by dating other men. This way, you keep your class, your power, your boundaries, and he has to work to get you!

    Tip#3: Don’t give him gifts, make him dinner or pay for dates

    Yes, this sounds unfair, and yet, who pays is often the difference in his mind between friends hanging out together and a “date.”

    If a man complains about paying for everything, let him know you don’t care what you do, you feel great being with him, and you don’t want to pay. Walking, hanging out in bookstores, having a picnic in a park can all be fun, romantic ways to get close to a man.

    (And forget about cooking dinner, or trying to make dating “reciprocal.” A bowl of popcorn and something to drink is fine.)

    When you give a man gifts, give him all your attention and energy, and give MORE than you receive, you’re OVERFUNCTIONING.

    Overfunctioning is doing more than your fair share and stepping up to rescue a man because you know you can do a better job. It’s arriving from your masculine energy. It feels aggressive and forward to a man. And it’s totally unattractive to him.

  387.  #387Labbit on April 22, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Perfect reminders, Beloved. Love this!!

  388.  #388Indigo on April 22, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Yeah Beloved, so true. I loved these reminders and experienced firsthand how true this is. It never even occurs to most women how overfunctioning pushes men away, it certainly never occurred to me, but it’s so true.

  389.  #389Indigo on April 22, 2015 at 11:03 am

    Labbit 382,

    I LOVED this: “Any anger they feel over us putting ourselves first isn’t directed at us, even if it seems that way. It’s just old wounds they have inside coming to the surface.”

    SO true.

  390.  #390Margaret on April 22, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Azure Blu, #300

    We made lists in steps 2,3 and 4. I’m just confused about which list we should do something from in step 7.

  391.  #391Lavender on April 22, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    Thank you for your response 🙂
    I use my ipad for these things and the Autocorrect always messes up my words, so I didn’t think twice about the misspelling of my name.
    I will send you an email…
    Have fun in Paris!

  392.  #392Tereana on April 23, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Beloved, 299 – what in the world is wrong with the word “p l u m”?? I can’t think of any reason that would send a post to moderation. I must have missed something…

  393.  #393Tereana on April 23, 2015 at 5:48 am

    Labbitt – 308

    Thank you so much!! That was really spot on and helpful. It’s so good to see how “hoping” for a certain outcome by doing certain things is really more of a manipulation and masculine energy behavior. He does respond when I tell him my preferences and say what I like, however.

    And the other day, I woke up feeling kind of “iffy” about him. Next thing I knew, i had a nice “good morning” message from him…it was unintentional leaving back. Just being in my feelings.

    As far as “commitment,” we are not committed as such, only because he knows he can’t commit right now. We met in the states, but he doesn’t know for sure if he’ll be able to move here. He doesn’t want to string be along or give me “dreams.” But I’ve told him I love him regardless, and when we do talk about our relationship, it is definitely the case that we both have marriage in our minds. We are both of that mindset. So I don’t want to push for a commitment. But it’s nice to know that he wants that.

    So I’m not counting on it. But he’s made it clear that that’s the kind of man he is. Also, I’ve just checked and his dating account is no longer active…

  394.  #394Femininewoman on April 23, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Terena poster who used that in her name got a firestorm of criticisms about her comment at one point and I believe someone suggested not feeling comfortable so all the comments under that name were automatically being sent into moderation, if I remember correctly. She now posts here and there under a different name.

  395.  #395Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 8:18 am

    Margaret #387
    for step #7…
    My understanding is pick anything from any of your lists and DO IT… and check it off…
    Rori Says:
    “associate YOUR First feeling of POWER by taking ACTION…”
    I have found this does feel powerful for ME
    and makes me smile
    AND gets my heart, body and MIND off of
    Obsessing over whatever I may be over thinking!!!
    What do other Sirens think?

  396.  #396Tereana on April 23, 2015 at 10:55 am

    Leigha Lake 313 – thank you!!

  397.  #397Margaret on April 23, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    Azure Blu,

    #392 Thank you for the clarification. I will try and let you know how it goes. Smile, I like that! 🙂

  398.  #398Tereana on April 23, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    Ok, FW, I missed that. Wow!

  399.  #399Tereana on April 23, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Well, there must be something wrong with my computer. I know there are newer threads, but it is only showing me this one. So I am just going to post here…

    Anyway, I didn’t get to say much of anything to Leigha, but really, thank you. Your response was so meaningful and helpful.

    I love thinking about being in my power. It’s really a tricky spot for me, because it DOES feel vulnerable. And I’ll just admit it – I hate feeling vulnerable. I do a lot of things to avoid that state. So I probably go to “control” a lot, because controlling feels more “powerful,” in that I don’t feel vulnerable. And vulnerability, to me, often feels way too much like losing my power. But on the other hand, vulnerability feels good, ultimately, while actually losing power does not. There’s the difference, I guess.

    But I’m still on the fence about whether it’s better to stay or go… That is, in the context of my own life, with regard to V. Because in my life, I have certainly been willing to walk away from a relationship that wasn’t “doing it” for me. But when I’ve done it, I haven’t ended up feeling powerful at all. And then I look to other women (and men) who stay in relationships, even well past the point where they are struggling and having problems. And it seems to me, at least from my perspective, that there is a certain amount of Power in just the fact that you have stayed with someone. (Not, obviously, if one person is being hurt in the relationship.) But that there is power in staying, if the two people are able to work past that hurt and still remain together.

    My tactic, overall, has been to play my “trump card” way too soon, and make ultimatums. Because I guess, to me, the ability to leave is the one thing that does create power – like you said. It was question #5, I believe. But being WILLING to walk away, and actually walking away are two different things.

    And I know that I’ve done this in the past: walked away, and had some idea that the guy would come chasing after me. Did he do that? Pretty much no. I walked, and he was like, “OK.” And I was bummed. Because it seemed like all that we had suddenly amounted to nothing. I wanted more depth, and instead I got a whole bunch of nothing. And that’s still what I want – depth. It’s what I’m struggling with right now, I think. I do want more connection, more intimacy, and a deeper feeling of being loved and cherished. And of course I am “willing” to walk away.

    But do I want to do that right now? Would that, in fact, really make me feel more “powerful”? I’m not sure it would. Because if I were to walk away, I’d have to do it in such a way that I did not care if he came after me or not. But I don’t think that’s how I would want it to be. I would be doing it more in a mode of expectation or wanting a result, which, as someone said, is really a masculine energy move, and it’s an attempt to manipulate the situation, not a true “lean-back.” It’s a fear response. It’s a move that, for me, right now, says that I fear I can’t get what I want if I do stay, and I need to “play the trump card” to try and force it. Which I KNOW will not work.

    So…for right now, I guess I’ve decided that staying is more “powerful” to me than leaving. Even if it’s not the full commitment I want in the end, it’s still a certain level of commitment. And I guess I can appreciate that. I don’t want to make him feel wrong, or like he’s not doing enough, when perhaps what he’s doing is actually a lot for him. I don’t know.

    I like your “Observer” designation. Right now, I get to be the Observer, and see what he does. I don’t have to make any big moves or decisions. I just get to watch him and see what moves he makes and feel whatever comes up. And to trust myself – that I do know what’s best for me.

    Thanks again, ladies!!!