A Dream Job With Dream Men

Untitled design (14)

wild animals togetherThis is exactly what we’re working on in my Have It All Teleclass Membership – How Being A Girl can work for you in business. This great story is from Sarah:

Dear Rori,

I’m using all your tools for my personal relationships challenges. Currently slowly removing attachment from my ex-fiance and fighting neediness surrounding being childless and single. I’m circular dating in my personal life. This feels wobbly still….

And also in my work life… It feels a bit weird though….

I am an Engineer and I work in a factory surround by about hmmmm 200-ish men. So circular dating at work is having an interesting effect on my productivity.

Work is not hard work anymore. It feels easy and fluid and fun. In fact it’s pretty amazing. I get to be a female and an engineer at the same time 🙂 Also I am causing quite a stir.

I am often feeling pretty nervous that they’ll all ‘know’ and think I’m up to no good, then the rest of the time I am feeling so relieved. I don’t feel the need to hold my stomach in all day, I don’t feel like leaning off the edge of my seat in meetings, or having all the answers.

I speak feeling messages all day and my colleagues help me, hold the door open, offer to be part of my team, offer to take tasks on as favours.

One day I was listening to one of your programs on my ipod. I looked up and my desk was surrounded by guys and I ended up pinned to the wall too. I felt pretty amused by the ‘coincidence’ of this 🙂

I have not felt this happy at work in years, it always felt like a struggle.

Now it feels joyous, I laugh all day and still get things done!

Thank you. Sending you my love, Sarah xxSarah


Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on March 30, 2015 at 7:35 am

    hhhmmm yummy!!!

  2.  #2Emerson on March 30, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Aw this is great! I love this

  3.  #3lovetodance on March 30, 2015 at 9:27 am

    wow sarah!

    to be able to accept all that attention and energy!

    that sounds so fabulous!

    and all that attention coming towards me is something i have wanted and dreaded in my life

    i am now feeling that out in me….what gets triggered…how do i allow that to come in and move around and go thru…as gifts…as love, as nourishment…

    i know i can do it and want to…conciously knowing it is healthy it is good to get all that…!

  4.  #4Sirana on March 30, 2015 at 10:59 am

    I feel like my brain is high jacked. I think I obsess so much about the status of our relationship and now even my own mental emotional stability that I have serious trouble focusing on anything else.
    He tells me he does love me but because of the ways we have hurt each other, he doesn’t believe I deserve to be hugged. He will not tell me he loves me. He admits he does but will not say it first. He wants sex but will not hug me. He says it is too intimate and it makes him angry. He says he is happy living life like friends with benefits. (We are married with 2 kids). We do have sex 2-3 times a week. We are good friends. I just can’t seem to let go of the idea that I don’t “deserve to be hugged” as he says. How do I keep doing this?How do I gain control? I always feel so weak. He says he has lost respect because he is so mean but I keep coming back. However he doesn’t want a divorce. He actually went to counseling with me but then say there saying he wasn’t going to change his feelings, I just need to accept this life.

  5.  #5Femininewoman on March 30, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Sirana that feels so difficult to read

  6.  #6Sirana on March 30, 2015 at 11:38 am

    I feel like I have all the power but yet I still feel so weak. It is up to me. He is happy like this. I either leave or agree to living with only a portion of his heart. I don’t want to leave. We have young kids and that would be hard. How do I gain strength?

  7.  #7Millie on March 30, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Is there a post on “have it all” not in tell lads form? If so is like to read it and pick up some new tools.

  8.  #8Millie on March 30, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Sirana, wow that feels so painful to read…. I cannot imagine opening my legs up to someone who can’t put their arms around me. I hope that you find the solution that feels right for you.

  9.  #9laura on March 30, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    love and punishment are incompatible….

    this is what it feels like to me sirana…
    it feels punishing….

    please take care of your precious self…words are powerful….
    actions even more

    much support to you as you figure this out….

  10.  #10Mandy on March 30, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Nice to know work doesn’t have to suck!

    My parents are paying for a training program for me, and so I am waiting for that; but being on SSI…disability pay for Tourette’s Syndrome…BOY does it make you feel helpless!

    I want to be in the work force like everyone else. My mom says she thinks if I work, my mind will get off the subjects I don’t like.

    I am a person…who is above average intelligence and who craves stimulation by way of say, internet, daydreaming, food, sex, running. So if I am bored at work, or if I cannot stand the job because I am not allowed to be the way I am, then it won’t work.

    I read that women who crave stimulation should be doing thins like group activities and interests and classes if they are single, because it keeps boredom eating away, keep away thought s of stress at work, and of course, as Rori says, makes you more centered and into yourself.

    I just remember the anxiety I felt when I did this internship at a tiny animation studio, as I heard the boss’ footsteps down the hall, toward the office I was working in, to check our work…he would tell me I half assed my work.

    That was here in Tucson, Arizona, the worst job market in the world…lol…legislature is not helping…so my mom is saying we should move out of AZ to a better job market.

    SO…I am scared of mean male bosses!!!

  11.  #11Kath on March 30, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    OMG!! Sirens I have to share this with you!- I feel so many wonderful feelings right now- I am smiling-no I’m grinning inside!!!!
    He sent me one of his long texts just now after two days or text arguing and I want to tell you every word:
    “I am sorry for this whole sad state I have caused. My problem is that I want my cake and eat it. I want the best of what we had, I want my hobby and friends and I want my independence as well. With everything my mind has had to deal with I am emotionally spent. The last 6mths have allowed me to recover and I have really enjoyed being on my own and not having to answer to anyone or consider anyone else. I have never had that in my whole life. I really do not believe that I can give you want you want or need. Best I can offer you is boyfriend and we see each other a couple of times a week and enjoy our company. Outside of that what you do and what I do with who has nothing to do with the other. That way we are still independent, have our own interests and enjoy each other’s company when we do see each other. I’m sorry, I know you want more but at the moment that is all I can do. I feel like I have had an emotional relapse these last few days and I am trying to halt it. My work has been axed and I am going up north tomorrow, due back 12th April x”
    I feel so so proud of him for saying that!!!!- I replied that I didn’t want to be a girlfriend but I would be his friend. He thanked me and I told him I was proud of him. This feels right.

  12.  #12Mandy on March 30, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    I have been heavily flirting with a man who I used to see three years ago before J. He is the only man I trust outside of J, because I know him, and we had wonderful times together (mostly in bed!!!)

    The flirting is seriously hot. I mean we’re practically having cyber sex. He’s in Texas so there’s no danger of me going and just deciding to have sex with him, but he says he’s coming to my city soon, and that will be something to think about. J does not want to be cheated on, but he feels almost guilty as hell for keeping me all to himself and not giving me what I need.

    So I know I will feel very torn soon.

    I have to say though this flirting is making me feel so juicy I do not want to stop. I’ve always been a very heavy flirt…if a man flirts with me and gets me to flirt back, it is almost always that we end up at least kissing each other.

    Anyone have the problem of being so passionate so fast that you end up in a situation that is confusing before you get to think? Even with “rowing the boat”…Do you ever get so turned on so fast that you forget and you lean in? Or have sex when you weren’t planning on it or were kind of trying not to?

    Circular dating presents issues for me because if I even talk to another guy…my body just LIGHTS UP…and says…make babies…lol…I mean it happens so fast between us it’s like it takes a nano-second to give myself over, I just get so into it and melty and swooning…I am SO into the experience that it takes me for a ride!

    Actually I am pretty sure once J and I first opened up to each other he couldn’t have enough of me. Now he’s trying to protect me from all that because I have become dear to him. When I was not yet dear to him, we would so quickly fall into passionate lovemaking it was all we did. He was really as into it as me and I could easily feed his passion…and see him glow stronger and burn hotter. It was amazing and when I see it start with another man…it makes me want to see it again. I love to fan the flames…it is my very favorite thing to do with a man, and J feels he needs to snuff it out. That’s why he’s looking for a good therapist…he knows it’s not normal and that I need it.

    POINT BEING…lol….sorry I’m so ADD I say so many words…

    Point being…this guy, who I’ll call Yo
    …lol…(he’s from Tel Aviv and dammit I can’t get enough of his sexy accent)…this man is sucking me into the tempting passion I want and need and I feel scared, but I feel like I might give in and then I’d be on a trip for biscuits.

    What should I do? Should I commit to not letting him seduce me? Or should I just let whatever happen happen?

    My mom says I’m not married so I can talk to other men but that I owe J some respect because I’m in a relationship with him. I imagine I may hear both sides…but I need some advice before I go any further…he’s dangerously hot…

  13.  #13Kim on March 30, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    So Kath, sorry but I haven’t been able to read all the posts on the last threads, I have been insanely busy – do you really want to be his friend and nothing else?
    I say he shows quite a lot of insight and self awareness here, of his own state and motives, and a lot of men never even think this far. I like how honest he is with you.

  14.  #14Kim on March 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Incidentally, I have had a stellar weekend and all my dilemmas for now have been totally averted.
    Had a great dinner and full day adventure next day with my man….now, we had a bit of a silly argument about something, and for some reason it led to something else and we were able to talk very openly about some things which felt good, about some of our issues that might try to sabotage the relationship if we don’t recognize them….he is really open to learning and I love that..
    Incidentally, it also helped me with my musician predicament..he was all ready to come down for the day to see me today, but as it happened I was so busy working, and only managed to scrape time in the afternoon…I also told him that I was dating someone (he is married! But he made some naughty type references), and the day woukd be strictly hanging out and fun, maybe beach and cocktails or whatever he felt like on his off day….so he cancelled..giving some reasons like it isn’t enough time etc….lol..I kinda had a
    feeling he might….so funny.
    I am happy with that though, it didn’t put me into a predicament in case he made a move on me, and in any case I was short of time.
    Things have a habit of sorting themselves out..

  15.  #15Kath on March 30, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Hi Kim,
    I’ve known him for 4yrs-I know him really really well-know what he’s put himself through, know he is essentially a good man- but he does need this time on his own. I want more than he is able to offer but his children still call me Stepmom, his grandkids call me Nana-we are linked-that is enough for me. If in time he asks for more than that will be the time to re-evaluate. Right now, we are both growing and we need to do that apart.

  16.  #16Zia on March 30, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Sirens 🙂

    I am feeling so happy with life right now. I am studying something I love, with plans to study more and an idea of where I want to go with it work-wise. My relationship is going brilliantly, my boyfriend gets along really well with my boy’s dad, and my boy adores him and he adores my boy. He took me into a jeweler to check what my ring size was too. This is the first relationship where I’ve been 110% content with the man to lead, row the boat, set the pace for the relationship. I’ve not once been worried or stressed or concerned with where it is going or the timing of things, and he just keeps on stepping up. I still pinch myself because I cannot believe the difference between who I am and how I feel now compared to two years ago and the 12 years prior!! You CAN change it super fast if you want to!!


  17.  #17Kim on March 30, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Zia, that sounds just perfect! Congratulations! How long have you been dating him?
    I believe it too, that we can turn around things pretty quickly!
    Lovely news!!!

  18.  #18Zia on March 30, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Kim – Just over a year 🙂
    Previously to this, I had one 9 year relationship which went on for about 8 years longer than it should 😉 he would talk about marriage and babies but nothing would happen, we’d always get into fights, there was lots of tears, I had to instigate everything, plan dates, move it forward…. and after we broke up he married someone around a year later. Then there was a 6 or so month relationship with the father of my child, where we broke up and got back together twice, but he ended up leaving again to go back to his ex whom he then married… again i pushed and instigated and kept trying to convince him that i was worth being with etc etc…. that took me about 2 years to get over (we’re all friends now so all good there!), and then there was an 8 month relationship that was full of drama, where he moved in after 6 months then left 2 months later… I was anxious and needy, worried my ‘window’ for getting married and having more kids would pass… instigated everything with him, and invited him to move in, and kept trying to convince him it was a good idea when he had doubts, pushing the idea of marriage and kids etc etc…. and it was after that last one when I thought “I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!” and realised i was perpetuating the same patterns over and over and that was something that had to change… I found Rori about a month before that relationship ended and got all her programs, listened to them, watched them, practiced all the tools, enrolled in dating and relationship summits, joined up with another (male) dating coach for about 6 months), completely flipped my world around and got together with my current boyfriend (who I knew from work for about 3 years but was married previous to us getting together) about 10 months later.

    This time around I let him set the pace, I was even a bit hesitant at the start, let him ask us to be official, didn’t push about moving things forward, and any time he expressed his desire to take things slowly i listened and just let him be, instead of getting anxious and worried about it, and he always ended up coming to that place way sooner than he expected. He asked me to become official, he told me he wanted to move in together, he brought up thoughts about marriage and future, and all at his pace. Initially he said it was very unlikely we’d even consider moving in together till at least 2 years, so it’s a good example of not freaking out if a guy says something that might be outside of your “timeline”… because if you leave them be and they feel safe and secure and comfortably, they may well progress things at a much faster pace than they thought they would.

  19.  #19Kim on March 30, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Zia, I think we have all been there (pushers, movers, instigators) which is probably why we end up here…lol..great story to see you turn it all around. As for the last sentence – I couldn’t agree more, this is what is happening to me right now. As soon as I totally gave up trying to control, he surprises me by moving things forward….I nearly spit out my coffee when he started to bring up marriage and saying it’s what he wants…lol…when we first started dating he said he didn’t see much point in marriage…and would be happy just having a monogamous relationship.
    I was like ‘uhm..ok….’ And have always dated others because that is what I want especially….and now he is doing a 360 degree turn…says he can’t wait to move in….and I am thinking ‘I am actually liking having my place to myself’.
    It’s just funny what happens when the dynamics shift…I wish I had known this 10 years ago lol.when I was chasing a guy or making dates just because I didn’t have the confidence to let them come to me…when I think back, in my early 20’s I was a total siren and somehow I lost my way for a few years…cured now! 😉

  20.  #20Dixie on March 30, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    Zia, this is wonderful news!

    I’ve been off the boards for a while but I love catching up with everyone’s journey…

    Oh, Lovergirl – I agree with all the gentle suggestions here. Yes, it feels so awful right now, but maybe put boys on the side for now? The self-care is hugely important because it makes you feel good! I love the suggestions above! And crying is totally allowed, whenever it happens! There is, for me, such a luxurious abandonment in being able to just let ALL the tears out sometimes. Just embrace all the feelings that surface.

    As for Kath, I felt a strong pull of admiration for what this man was able to share with you openly. Does your heart really want to be platonic friends though? Reallyreallyreally? I don’t mean to second guess your decisions at all…. it’s just that sometimes, my head is VERY sneaky in trying to dupe my heart into believing that “being friends” is satisfying enough.

    At this end, I did end up going out on that date with SteadyCD…. and I’m happy I did. I like him so much as a person. He is looking for something much more, much sooner, and is heavily focused on being romantic :). I did feel a little exposed after all his questions, (so many!) but I stayed grounded and calm and very open. He is a wonderful man, but afterwards, I felt so relieved to drive home, enjoy the quiet night and crisp air, and cherish the life I’ve cultivated for myself these past few years. The moments before the date, I was at my parents house, feeling so happy talking to my dad, and I realized that right now, I feel so content and selfishly so. And life right now is suggesting that I will have to consider making my parents long term care part of my responsibilty. SteadyCD hinted at if there was anything (running, cycling, coaching, etc) I would scale back from, and I said, not during the dating stage right now, and especially since certain things bring me so much joy and fufillment. He wasn’t pleased about me bringing so much work home, and suggested that I didn’t have a good work/life balance. (I do, I just happen to channel my creative impulse into work).

    Indigo, you mentioned that people show up in our lives for different reasons – yes! Last night, I was talking to D and he was excited to show me his article that’s been published and I felt this surge of excitement, because I love, love, love, the feeling when D and I feed off eachothers passion for work. I had helped with minor editing on this article, and… now I know, for certain, that my Forever Man is someone who will encourage my passions, and encourage me to push past my boundaries.

    D. will stay up with me late at night when I’m working, check up on me, and acts like my one-man personal cheerleader and marching band. I’m not certain if D is my Forever Man, but right now, he is my Inspiration Man. And that by itself is enough for me to appreciate!

    Love to you all from a very cold climate (WHERE is spring??)

  21.  #21Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Sirana – That is difficult. I would say just go get your needs for hugging met somewhere else. spend less time with him, prioritizing people who hug you. refer his job out. 😉 You may end up liking one of the other guys more. or, he might notice and step up.

  22.  #22Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    Kath, I agree with everyone- what an open response!
    I also felt the same tho- why would you say you just want to be friends? That kind of puts you in a box for being treated less than what you would like, doesn’t it?
    Are you wanting to ‘break up’ with him?
    Are you trying to inspire him to rethink his decision?

  23.  #23Lovergirl on March 30, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    Tonight S texted me- it was 4 days of no contact and he just said that he didn’t need me to work for him tomorrow but would on Thurs. I was kind of angry and hurt so I let it sit for about 30 min before texting back “ok”. Meanwhile I was busy talking to some people and my kids.

    Then he texts me and says “are you ok?” When I didn’t respond right away (still talking to people) he says “kinda weird not talking or texting you in so many days- oh well, I’m glad you’re moving on nicely now”. Followed by, “good night”.

    That kind of melted my heart and felt like a huge relief, to know that it was hard on him too. I texted him back a few min later and said “Hey I’m good. I miss you too S. Goodnight”. That’s all I said, not sure if it was the “right” thing or not, but it was the truth. I COULD have told him I am not moving on very well, but I didn’t. :p

  24.  #24Indigo on March 31, 2015 at 12:02 am


    “now I know, for certain, that my Forever Man is someone who will encourage my passions, and encourage me to push past my boundaries.”

    YES. My ex-husband was a wonderful man, but I always felt stifled by him. It seemed to me that he was always suggesting my dreams and passions were “silly”, that my goals were impractical and that I always needed to live a bit more in the “real world” and be a bit more “balanced”. This felt so draining and unsupportive to me, and was a major reason I left that marriage. After that, I KNEW that the man I would be with forever would be someone who supported me in being myself, right down to his bones.

    It’s one of the main things I love about D. He respects individualism and independence so much that he has always utterly supported me in being myself. He has never so much as implied that I have made the wrong decisions, and has always done his best to stand behind me whatever I chose to do. This really means a lot to me because it feels like trust and respect to me. I have dated many men who seemed to “know better” what was right for me and I always knew I could never be with them.

  25.  #25Indigo on March 31, 2015 at 12:07 am


    I find it hard to imagine being in the same room as a man who would refuse to hug me. How upsetting for you.

    Have you tried setting certain boundaries around what you need? Such as that you can’t have sex if you are not also going to be held? It seems to me that this is about you getting clear on what you want and what you won’t tolerate. After all, even friends hug each other. This does seem to me that this may be about anger and punishment on his part.

  26.  #26IamHis on March 31, 2015 at 3:27 am

    Fantastic post that I can SO relate to! It still feels scary and challenging to allow myself to feel at work. The emotions that have come up there have felt pretty scary and messy and just plain inconvenient since I frequently work with the public. I have to remember the good, no, amazing results that I have experienced with allowing myself to feel at work.

    ((((Sirana)))) – I hope Rori chimes in to help. It feels like there is so much going on under neath the surface here.
    Let me just say that you absolutely DO deserve to be hugged! !!!!! Sending you prayers. <3

  27.  #27Cara on March 31, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Hi Rori.
    I love what you do and your new area of having it all. I am a professional woman, my job involves leading a lot of other people. Recently I have been feeling very ‘small’, lacking confidence, feeling undermined by other people, not being to come off well in meetings. There are certain people who have been recently making me feel that way. When I make comments, they look unsatisfied, would often comment after me with something, would answer questions straight after I have answered them. This is causing me a lot of anger. I don’t know what to do. Sometimes these are so subtle that I can’t even come back with a comment, or I don’t realise till after the meeting. There is nothing big for me to specifically pick up on. I just feel smaller and smaller and want to hide away. What can I do to address this situation?x

  28.  #28Sirana on March 31, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Thank you everyone for your comments. It does feel like punishing. At the same time, I know how hurt he is. He says he wants to hug me but feels too angry to do it. He does so many other things for me but they are not in my love language. I need affection. Since he is so angry, he can not provide it. Instead, he will make my coffee in the morning, he will make me a drink at night, he will send me funny jokes to make me laugh or try to solve my work problems. He is actually very attentive and plugged in. He just refuses to show me the love I crave (hugs, kisses, saying I love you (unless I say first). Sometimes I think I am just wanting too much. Other times I think I can’t live like this. He just wants me to make a decision. Live with him like this because he is not willing to change, or leave. It is all up to me yet I can’t seem to move. I don’t want to leave. I just want him to show his love like he once did. But he will not and so the tug of war continues.

  29.  #29Sirana on March 31, 2015 at 11:09 am

    Indigo – I am worried that holding back sex will feel like a game. I do want to have sex when I do.

  30.  #30Sirana on March 31, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Zia – Congratulations! I feel your happiness and lightness.

  31.  #31RileyTheOwl on March 31, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    I feel so sad right now, so full of grief. I broke up with C last night, something I have given a lot of time and thought, yet while afterwards I at first felt happy, I am now all of a sudden hit with sadness and grief. I miss his touch so much, his laugh, his embrace. Ending a two year relationship is so hard, and I’m wondering if my sadness is just because all endings are sad, or if I’m making a mistake. Please help me

  32.  #32nyx on March 31, 2015 at 1:14 pm


    Only time ever I heard something like this going on is when a male friend told me his former ex had cheated on him. That made him, and I quote, “feel so repulsed by her that I never wanted to touch her unless I needed sex, and of course the relationship ended”.
    With all the other affections he shows you, I think your situation is not this dire (and of course I don’t think the reason is the same).
    Still… need for change to preserve the relationship seems urgent to me… also that he feels extremely hurt.

  33.  #33Lovergirl on March 31, 2015 at 1:31 pm


    That would feel so awful, being denied hugs. I think I would repeatedly express how I felt about it, in feeling messages, and let him see just how much pain it is causing. If he didn’t respond to that, may be time to rethink some things. I’m no expert but that is what I think I would do. I don’t think it is playing a game to say no to sex if you flat out tell him, it just feels awful having sex with this kind of emotional distance between us.

  34.  #34Lovergirl on March 31, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    I heard from S again today. It was kind of random, lol. He texted to just say “Hi Lovergirl” then a few minutes later mentioned some idea he had for work stuff. I just said “ok cool” and haven’t heard back (that was a couple hours ago). Anyway, I feel like he is just making excuses to text/talk. He does that. I feel happy hearing from him, even little stuff like that.

  35.  #35Femininewoman on March 31, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Lovergirl that just struck me as “stringing her along”. Sorry.

  36.  #36Lovergirl on March 31, 2015 at 2:58 pm


    I don’t know. If he is stringing me along I dont feel its intentional. He sells insurance and is on the phone for hours at a time during the day, so he may have had more on his mind and got interrupted. Who knows?

    In any case, when he texted I was actually at another man’s house. This guy is someone I have had sex with here and there over the last few years. We arent in any kind of relationship and never will be, but hes fun in bed and at least I got laid. 😉

  37.  #37Zia on March 31, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    FW – 34 – I agree.

  38.  #38Zia on March 31, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    34 – FW – Further to this, so many of the male dating coaches describe it just like that. Where they send out “feeler” texts to women just to see if they’ll respond, without having to actually put any effort or work into doing any more than that. A safety net kind of thing.

  39.  #39Beloved on March 31, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    I feel triggered.
    I need to riff.
    Earlier this evening, TG was telling me about his Big Plans for enclosing the whole common area downstairs so he can turn it into his music studio. Right now, we can see and talk over the balcony and it’s all open. As he wants it, he wants to close it off from access from the kitchen/breakfast nook, and close it off in a way that will create a wall closing off the balcony.

    I felt a sinking feeling in my belly when he was telling me this. I told him what I felt, and that I just really liked everything the way it was when I moved in and so many things have changed and seem to keep changing. Which, was mostly just practice for me and no attempt to change or stop him from doing it, that would not feel right to me.

    So anyway…I’m sinking into the feeling.
    First thing my mind imagines is, I need to find another place. I’m going to have to leave.
    Sinking deeper, I’m feeling…sadness. I loved how welcome and “part of the household” I felt when I first moved in and now I feel “not welcome”. I feel “pushed out”. I feel “not belonging”.
    Different. Bad somehow.

    Meanwhile, RoomieJ who strives hardest to be “one of the guys” and has told me repeatedly she just cuts off her feelings…is all about it. She wants this because, of course, she’s a musician and excited to get to play with TG more (he’s very good and a good teacher).

    I feel…I don’t know, kind of like…I didn’t make the high school clique or something.

    I feel scared seeing my bank account shrink and not yet being employed and feeling like my options are SO limited.

    I realized, though, that there are only 5 weeks left of school, and I definitely have $ for rent through then, and I don’t *have* to go to school over the summer, I can work full time and save up some money, if that’s what it comes down to.

    I suppose, deep down, I feel so, so scared of feeling pushed out. Something about that reminds me of birth – and also, I think…”ostracized”.

    I also feel like our program director kind of took a crap on us this semester. He’s been very busy and involved in stuff and except for 2 students he’s taken under his wing, the rest of us feel like we are kind of flopping around with nothing to do. He isn’t really present or involved and our 5 hour Friday class is usually less than 2 hours, maybe three before he sends us home.

    Big sigh.
    I feel fear and dread all the way to my toes and I keep wiggling my toes and touching them to the ground to stay in my body through all of these feelings.

    I feel panicky that I don’t have a backup plan. I feel annoyed with myself that I didn’t just take a different full-time job instead of going to school.

    I feel that the best thing I could do for now, is finish studying for the evening. I still feel fear and dread…and…just gotta keep handling what needs to be handled for the moment.

  40.  #40Indigo on March 31, 2015 at 9:30 pm


    Here is what my instincts are telling me – and I’ve been in a similar situation before that did come right. One where the man did not feel emotionally plugged in and thus battled to give affection because the relationship had been damaged and thus become distant.

    I would honestly do what Leigha Lake suggests and simply focus on building “good moments”. For quite a while maybe. Often the more we can bang on about what we’re not getting from a man and he feels unable to give it, the more he can dig his heels in. Could you maybe gush and appreciate the things he is doing for you right now? Focus on building peace and good feelings and emotional intimacy for a while. Men can say that nothing will ever change because that’s how they feel in the moment, but the honest truth is that they can change when their feelings change. Whenever there is any touch, melt and warm to it and try to expand the sensation. See if after a while of really building emotional closeness if the physical affection doesn’t start to come back, tiny bit by tiny bit. That is what I would do if you feel unable to leave.

  41.  #41Rori Raye on March 31, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    Cara – oooo..I SO identify with that! AND, I have a lot to say about it. Do you know about my new Have It All Teleclass series? It’s so new, anyone who comes on April 15th is sure to have some one-on-one time with me…http://www.coachrori.com/have-it-all-teleclass-membership/ Love, Rori

  42.  #42Lovergirl on March 31, 2015 at 11:10 pm


    I’m pretty sure it was not just a “feeler” text from S. He’s just not like that. He called me tonight and we talked on the phone for over an hour and a half, then quite a bit of texting, and then he called to talk some more, lol, like another half hour.

    It was an interesting conversation. He said he wanted me to know that he considers me among the women he has had a “relationship” with and that there were “millions” of times he thought about being with me for real. He said that stuff on his own, no prompting on my part at all.

    He said that he thought long and hard about it and that he felt bad that his only real reason for not being with me is because I have so many children. I guess he met a woman recently who also had 5 children and immediately told her it wouldn’t work. He said he told her about me and he said he was honestly questioning himself if that was really a good reason for not being with me because he really likes everything about me.

    He asked me what I have been up to and really grilled me about the new guy. He wanted to know where this guy has taken me and said he “approves” of the restaurants because they are places he would take me himself. He asked if we have had sex and got kind of jealous about it.

    He immediately started saying stuff like that I had found someone to “replace” him and I said no that isn’t the case. He was obviously stressing about it but admitted that he has slept with people too. He has a coffee date with some woman tomorrow eve.

    He said I am beautiful and he knows that other men will want me. He claimed to “feel better” knowing that I am dating around now because he said it was bothering him and making him feel like he shouldn’t be.

    I had actually gotten a big bag of stuff from the new guy that I was going to give to S to sell with his business, (the guy was getting rid of it). He said he doesn’t want anything that touched a man that had sex with me, that it is “contaminated”. Kind of a shame because it could actually make him quite a bit of money, but maybe I will sell it myself.

    I told him about planning to go to Chicago and could tell he was a little jealous but he also expressed concern for me and that I would be safe with this new guy. He said just be careful that he doesn’t get you in a position like that and start acting crazy or try to push you into something you aren’t comfortable with.

    He said a lot of other things, like that he had always felt like I had self respect because of my expressing that I didn’t like him going out with his ex, even though we weren’t in a technical “relationship”. He said that let him know I wasn’t just someone that would be walked over. He brought up on his own that he felt really bad about the comment he made during the miscarriage about me trying to “trap” him because he knows its not true.

    We got kind of intense in conversation and he said that he hopes in 10 years he doesn’t regret not taking a chance on a relationship with me. I said “let’s just say you wouldn’t be the first. Guys always decide I was great after the fact. Not sure if its having a chance to compare or think it over or what” and he said he remembers me telling him that before (I have).

    Anyway, the conversation got super sugary sweet and I finally said “I think this is getting too mushy for me right now, so goodnight”. He laughed and said him too, then talked a bit more about work stuff and then called me on the phone to talk some more about ideas he has for the future.

    He said some kind of sad things in there too, like that he knew if either he or I got in a serious relationship we would have to stop working together. He said that he’s told that to his ex girlfriend too. Any time he gets serious there will be no exes allowed in the picture and he would expect the same from me.

    Anyway, I feel good about the conversation. He did mention somewhere in there that he had thought about sex with me again, just wanted to make sure and use a condom so we don’t keep getting pregnant. I think that all went out the window though when I admitted to sleeping with another guy. He didn’t bring it up again.

  43.  #43Beloved on April 1, 2015 at 12:28 am

    Oh, I also feel like sharing this…
    Sunday, I had a yummy massage and a sweet emotional release once I got home.
    I felt triggered seeing a young man on the freeway feeder intersection, holding a sign up, selling candy to raise money for his mother who is diabetic and needs surgery. I felt a surge of admiration for the young man, and suddenly a realization that my son would never, ever do anything like that. If I were on my deathbed, he would not “lower” or ‘humiliate’ himself like that.
    The thought was, I don’t feel my son would spit on me if I were on fire.
    I feel like I’ve just had it with him.
    He’s been an arsehole, to me, to his wife, he’s being a jerk to the baby even, thank goodness he’s out on the road most of the time.
    I felt like…what the H3LL do I think I did so wrong that I deserve for him to be mad at me and treat me like sh!t forever and ever?
    I reviewed all of the stuff I had done for him and all of the ways he just trashed every thing I’ve given him. Wrecked cars, burned out engines, a $400 suit I bought him for his homecoming I found wadded up in a garbage bag. I respected his decision to quit school, understood why, and after he got his GED I hooked him up with a TERRIFIC IT job paying $40k a year (at age 19…seriously). He stole money from me, he stole money from my ex, from our business, he stole stuff from the great job he had.
    I was SO sick I couldn’t work, I was 3 months behind on the rent, and my adult child making $40k/year wouldn’t help with rent and I had to move across country to stay on a friends couch for a year because I was so beat down.

    I could go on..and I won’t. Suffice to say, I cried, deep from my heart, a deep cleansing cry. Screw that noise. My parents physically, psychologically, and emotionally abused me and made me the family scapegoat, and I don’t treat my parents the way my son treats me. He can kiss my butt, really. I feel done with feeling guilty. It breaks my heart that the baby who used to come running to me and fall asleep in my arms has grown to be so hostile toward me…and…I’m not going to feel like I deserve his hostility anymore.

    I feel such a huge relief letting all of that stuff go.

  44.  #44Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 1:14 am

    {{{{RileytheOwl}}}} #31
    Ohhh… lovely Siren…
    I am so sorry you are feeling grief and sorrow…
    Why did you decide to break up with C?

    Yes, I have found breakups after a 2 year relationship ARE painful… even if it was our idea…
    So many happy memories… etc…
    comfort your feelings of grief and sadness…
    have them sit beside you
    ask them WHY they are sad…
    listen to what they say…
    Comfort and love them…

  45.  #45Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 1:28 am

    So many changes going on in your house…
    the house that is sooo warm and inviting…
    maybe if you choose to look at the good things
    that are still going on…
    It sounds like you have seen the triggers
    this is bringing up…

    I know you know this… just a gentle reminder…

    Sit with those triggers… go deep into those triggers…
    This is a gift for you to peel a few more layers…
    to heal…

    I feel sad hearing about your relationship with your son…

    I know My son and I have been mending
    our relationship for years now…
    Since Rori’s tools (2yrs) I have been able
    to change MY part in our dynamic
    I began to see where I wasn’t respecting HIM
    honoring HIS space and time
    Not really listening to HIM
    Slowly I have started giving him the respect he deserves,
    receiving and being appreciative of the love he does give to me…listening carefully when he talks (not that often – :-)) – not having to have the last word…
    He is NOW treating ME with much more
    respect and genuine caring
    which he NEVER did before…
    I feel soooo happy about this NEW
    relationship we are experiencing…

    I wish the same for you darling Beloved…

  46.  #46Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 1:31 am

    Indigo #40
    Love what you say here…
    your Siren song is warm and soft…

  47.  #47Lovetodance on April 1, 2015 at 4:46 am

    Riley the owl…
    I feel for you sweet siren
    So hard to break up
    Reaching for who what has given comfort and now the pain of that person not being there.
    Because of our own decision
    Yet those decisions have validity . They do not come out of thin air
    I love what azure said about sitting with the sadness ….wrapping yourself in your own warm and comforting self love . Letting your grief wash thro you and cleanse you …knowing that you will be alright. That he will be alright. …sending you blessings….!

  48.  #48Lovetodance on April 1, 2015 at 5:06 am

    Oh my goodness….
    Having come out of a long relationship hibernation. Recovering from a difficult break up …. With someone whom I felt a mandate to be the ‘healer’.
    And seeing how that so is a dis/service to both parties involved. Swearing to not have to learn that one again
    And here I am with another beautiful wounded man …..who seemingly has more skills tools for relationship in some ways. But more challenged, more traumatic background, more and similar physical issues. And right in front of my eyes a herniated disk.
    And I ‘the healer’ being called forth ….
    I don’t want to sacrifice myself again
    I don’t want to sign up for this
    I don’t want to put his heart and needs in front of mine
    I have after so many years opened to love and relationship again and I am like a dry sponge having been immersed in warm luscious liquid. And now it has transformed so quickly….he not able to be physical…in pain .
    Oh how quickly things can change

    I do not want to desert him and yet I know that voice that says stay…. You can’t leave when he is in need….or look how beautiful he is on these other levels….
    Yet more and more trauma of his background is being revealed to me and I just don’t know if I can bear it

    I at this point would rather be his friend. And be a healing friend. Not the dynamic of a lover. Where my needs won’t be met in this situation ….
    Really sometimes things just ain’t fair….
    And I am grateful. None the less. Big sigh

  49.  #49April Rose on April 1, 2015 at 5:31 am


    the first thing coming to me reading your posting above is – what would it feel like to you to be *taken care of* in a relationship?

    Also, what does a healthy relationship look like to you?

  50.  #50April Rose on April 1, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Orna and Matthew Walters say we have a ‘love imprint’ that keeps us attracting the same kind of partner (or partners with similar issues).

    They have some wonderful programs for healing this love imprint, so we can go on to attract the healthy partner who is right for us.

  51.  #51April Rose on April 1, 2015 at 5:42 am


    Sweetheart, what happened?

    I haven’t seen you here for a long time.
    What has been happening in your heart?

    Do you want to riff? To talk to us here? I would love to help you find clarity if you need it.

    And as Azure Blu and lovetodance have said in other words – keep honoring your sadness and smothering yourself in love.

  52.  #52Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 5:42 am

    I am sooo sorry that you have found
    something you are familiar with, in this CD…
    Ahhhh… the triggers they are a Singin’
    BUT, as Dominique pointed out so sweetly to me…
    It ISNT the SAME trigger… another layer to peel back
    and look at more deeply
    and heal…
    Friendship sounds very healthy!!
    Yes, you deserve a man who can give you
    love in alll the ways!!!

  53.  #53Starla on April 1, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Lovergirl, I feel so connected to your story with S. I read your story and just know that if you want this man, you have a very high realistic chance. It seems like your leaning forward, not your children, is what’s short circuiting S’s clearly intense emotional attraction to you. Men don’t have much self awareness of their own emotional attractions to women so they tend to point to more tangible reasons for their discomfort with a woman.

    The type of leaning forward I mean is staying on the phone with him for a long time explaining yourself and your love life. I bet the moment you soften up to yourself and stop trying to prove to him you are open and loyal to him even in whatever small way, this man would come right to you. For example, instead of listening to him about his complicated feelings and his whining about your dating life, and you answering to him and explaining yourself, you use feeling messages to express how it makes you FEEL. Lovergirl, THAT is where a man finds trust in a woman And will risk it all to be with her, even if it means taking on five of her children. Feeling message responses like “it would feel incredible taking on the world with you. I don’t want to answer for my love life to a man who doesn’t want that too.” and then get quiet. See what he says. If he doesnt just change the subject and keeps harping, say you dont want to answer for your love life to a man who isnt courting you, it feels so weird and bad, so you’re gonna go. Then get off the phone. Get off the phone within twenty minutes regardless. Lovergirl, RR coaches do free 30 min sessions… You could get a ton of great direction on this process of magnetizing a man to you. I personally like Leigha Lake’s book Bring Him Back. It’s affordable, especially compared to coaching. Anyway, i just really think S could be your guy with such basic tweaks.

  54.  #54Lovergirl on April 1, 2015 at 7:26 am

    @ 53- Starla-

    Thank you so much for your comment. I feel clueless, like I don’t even realize I am “leaning forward”. I should be cutting phone conversations short? I guess I need to work on that. When he calls or wants to be in my presence, its very, very hard for me to turn that down. I just like him SO much! I feel panicked about losing him and want to hang on at all costs. I know on some level that that attitude is counterproductive, its just very difficult to let go.

    Even last night on the phone and over text, we were literally finishing each others sentences and texting each other the same thoughts at the same time, to the point where he was like “jinx!” lol. I so feel like he is the man for me, but like he’s just out of reach and I don’t really have a clue how to get him closer. I saw the Bring Him Close book before and thought of buying it.

    I’ve got two kids birthdays and Easter this month so spare cash is hard to come by at the moment. I am going to try to get it asap. As far as coaching, I have felt reluctant to take a free session since I know I probably couldn’t afford the sessions after, but maybe I will give it a try.

  55.  #55Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Starla #53…
    This is Awesome…
    thank you for your reminders of
    cutting the phone conversations/texting short…
    including feeling messages
    and what else is ALLL leaning forward…
    No wonder I feel antsy when the texting/phone conversations get lengthy and going nowhere…

  56.  #56Indigo on April 1, 2015 at 9:41 am


    I love what Starla has said and I feel the same way about your situation. I’ve been there. Men don’t really understand at all how this all works, so you cannot rely completely on their “reasons”. The very fact that he is still contacting you all the time and talking about his connection to you and getting jealous means that he is very drawn to you. Honestly I think you come across as a very light, breezy, feminine woman and I can understand why he is feeling regret about letting you go.

    Thing is, you have to get clear on what’s best for YOU, on what you want, and, as Starla, stop worrying about explaining yourself to him, or to any man for that matter, at the moment. Make yourself number one. Drill down to what feels good and honour your boundaries enough to ONLY stay in situations that feel good. Including with S. That will take care of a lot of the leaning forward. Allow him to keep approaching you but don’t cut off your other options, and continue to CD the world and yourself. We have to let men lead the relationship, yes, but we have to lead emotionally. We have to create the space for the emotional connection.

    I can’t promise you that you will get S, but I can promise you that you will feel a whole lot better.

    I second Starla’s endorsement of Leigha Lake’s book, it’s great. But if you can’t afford it, at least read all the blog articles on her site. I think it will help you.

  57.  #57Kim on April 1, 2015 at 10:26 am

    I kinda agree with Starla too, in general terms, but I also believe that men, too, can have dealbreakers even if they are very attracted to a woman on many levels…and it would do us well to know and respect what those dealbreakers are and when they say ‘no’ actually accept it and move on….which may be the case in this situation, it may not. I don’t know.

    Dealbreakers might not mean that a man won’t have a pseudo-relationship with a woman in a situation that he considers a dealbreaker, but it perhaps means he might not be able to move forward, plan a future, plan moving in and getting married and if this were important to me, I would pay close attention to what he is saying and not just concentrate on making good moments and throwing caution to the wind while getting more and more attached to him.

    This is just the same as dating a man with caution, who says ‘I will never get married’ if this is something that is important to us. He may change his mind but he may not, and he has given us a disclaimer, and I do believe it is important to listen to, and respect, what a man is saying.

    There are many men who LOVE children…and would be happy to be getting involved..and there are men who see it as a hindrance to the (carefree/traveling etc) life they envisage – bottom line.
    It also depends on whether they are young and ‘helpless’ or already adults or teenagers being able to do a lot of things alone.

    I am one of those women who, after having tried it a few times, would never date a man with younger kids again. This means I might go out with him, take him as a lover, go away for weekends and enjoy the good times, but I would also still look for my Mr Right. I do really object to the view of men as somehow being dumb and going just for attraction and throwing all else to the wind…this is not always the case and a huge generalisation.

    Sorry, I just felt compelled to add that because I know a lot of men who are quite clear and have remained quite clear on their decisions, and I have heard the ‘oh yeah I would date/sleep with/have a good time with her, but it would never go further’ once too many times….they have dealbreakers and look after themselves just like we do, albeit maybe when they really fall for a woman, the dealbreakers may not matter – I certainly wouldn’t count on it and just see him as another CD, actually demote him asap.

    Some guys are also just frankly scared of the financial implications, especially if they have a previous family of their own they are still supporting…it is what it is.

  58.  #58Kim on April 1, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Also, the whole thing about the jealousy….I have had guys being jealous of other men in my life and yet been totally unable to offer me anything, not even a relationship..that’s a man marking his territory a little…I wouldn’t place too much emphasis on that…I would look at actions such as:
    – does he want a relationship
    – does he make dates consistently
    – does he initiate contact/conversation etc consistently
    basically: is he in front of me…does this feel good and like there is progress, does he plan into the future a little – I think this tells us more..

  59.  #59Kim on April 1, 2015 at 10:33 am

    And to end my rant…I believe telling a man we like, that we are having sex with other men is not just unnecessary, but will also turn them off seeing us as a relationship/marriage prospect.
    I would keep that verrrrryyyyy quiet.

  60.  #60RileyTheOwl on April 1, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Azure Blu, Lovetodance, and April Rose
    Thank you so so much. Thank you for your kind words full of wisdom.
    Azure Blu, it is so hard after two years, and I feel grateful to read you say it so I know it’s not just me. I keep thinking about all our good times together, and then all of a sudden feeling grief crash down because we are not a pair anymore. I’m hugging my sorrow and sadness, trying to love her… I had a candle lit bath last night, where I experienced sobbing and also smiling and a whole array of feelings, mostly sorrow, and I tried to just touch my body everywhere lightly with my fingertips and pretend everywhere I touch was being loved. It was calming and helped a little. But I miss him so much.

    You’re right, my decision did not come out of thin air. I thought about it for a long time, and eventually I just had this feeling in my stomach that it was the right path to take. Yet, I’ve never been the heart breaker before, and now I’m in a weird position because he wants me back, and I have thebpiwer to either walk away or go back to him. Where is my confidence that this is the right path now? The day after we broke up I woke up sad, sigh…. I suppose the clarityvi had before has been fogged up a bit by my sorrow for this ending. Do you think that’s why I’m so sad? He was a big part of my life before, and now I’m on a fresh new path and single…

    Oh April Rose,
    Thank you for noticing that I haven’t been around lately. My life has been absolutely crazy lately, with my parents divorcing and me trying to graduate from school. I will make another post about what has happened with C and my feelings in the relationship, as well as a post about what’s been going on in my life lately. I do need to riff. Thank you for your kind words, all of you.

  61.  #61Lovergirl on April 1, 2015 at 11:23 am

    @56 Indigo-

    Thank you for the very helpful reminders. I need to keep focusing on ME and not so much on him. I will definitely be looking more into the Leigha Lake site. I believe that S really does care for me and I still have some hope for things to work out, but I can’t allow it to make me feel desperate.

  62.  #62Kath on April 1, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Hi Sirens,
    I am learning so much but it has been really strange over the past couple of days because I’ve not been able to sleep for feeling things that have come up from years ago and other relationships!- I found myself wishing that I’d learned about Rori tools a long long time ago!
    Yes, it does feel fine to SAY to him that I am happy to be his friend. He can’t handle “losing” people- every woman he has every had an intimate relationship with is still around him in some form or other!- Its wierd!- I am very aware of who and what he is-but slightly confused now by the very insightful text he sent me. I am focussing on me though and guess what!- the day after I decided to end it and move on from him I got chatting to the guy I have fancied at work for a long time!- We stood in the kitchen for ages chatting and sharing information about each other and I’ve caught him looking at me a few times since then- I just wish he’d ask me out!

  63.  #63Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Wow… I really like what you are saying here…
    It is SOOO important to listen to what a man says…
    What he says he is looking for…
    The sooner we find out that what He wants for his life, future, day to day…
    is NOT compatible with mine…
    It is sooo important for ME NOT to stay
    and get more attached!!

    I have walked away after several months of dating…from several CDs because of this very thing… looking back… thank goodness I didn’t prolong the dating/attachment by thinking (ohhhh… he’ll change his mind) that is NOT respectful
    and the relationship turns into the badgering and nit picking I want to avoid!!!

    tHank you KiM for your wise comments!

  64.  #64Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Kim #58
    Ahhhh… YES!!!
    They ALLLL get jealous thinking you might be dating others!!!
    I totally agree… for me, it is fairly meaningless, unless they have asked for a committed or next step relationship…

  65.  #65Lovergirl on April 1, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Hey Kim-

    I don’t know that it is really a “dealbreaker” with S, but it is a serious consideration. He wants children very much, so it isn’t a matter of not liking kids, but he wants to have his own and he feels more than 5 children is a huge family. He says he asks every woman whether she wants to have kids because if she doesn’t THAT is a serious dealbreaker for him.

    We have the added complication that he feels it is his duty as a “good black man” to contribute to society by raising black children, and mine are white. He worries about what people (and especially his father) will think of him raising a bunch of white children. While that may seem superficial at the outset, I do kind of understand where he is coming from. He doesn’t personally have anything against white kids, but he is concerned about how it would affect his image (and at least he is honest about this with me, I feel that is a plus).

    There are financial considerations as well. S makes a great deal more money than I or my ex husband ever have and is used to a different lifestyle. He thinks having so many children would be a huge financial undertaking and that he would need to really buckle down and make more money.

    He says even with those thoughts, he has STILL tried to figure out in his mind if there is some way he could “make it work” because he really likes me. He feels that if we were in a “relationship” that the goal would HAVE to be marriage. When I asked could he have a relationship without that goal he said no there would be no point in that. He wants to get married someday.

    We were trying to have a FWB style arrangement in the beginning but he said he was getting much too attached to me to be able to look at it that way. Then, he “accidentally” got me pregnant TWICE and both times I miscarried. I really don’t believe they were total “accidents”. I think on some level he wanted an excuse to “have” to be with me, because he feels very strongly if he ever had a child he would be very involved.

    He even said, after the fact, that the “best thing” about me being pregnant was the idea that he would “get” to be around me for the rest of his life. However, he had a lot of conflicting emotions about it all and would vacillate back and forth.

    As far as jealousy, what is funny is that S and I started out in the swinger community. He has never seen me with another man, but I have been there when he slept with a few other women. There was even a party at a man’s house that I have slept with before, where the guy was like we can’t have sex because I see the way S looks at you, he can’t handle it. Turns out he was correct and while S at first thought he could deal with it he now admits there is NO WAY.

    On that end though, when S demands to know what I am doing with other men, I don’t feel I can lie or cover it up. If he wants to know he will get it out of me and he wasn’t taking “I don’t think we should discuss this” as an answer. He knows I am a sexual woman and will not sit around and wait forever. He admits it is only fair and that he has been sleeping with people too. If my sex life were going to turn him off from me as a prospect, it would be totally “done” with and no chance already. He says himself that he knows I would be loyal, so that part is not a concern to him.

    As far as making dates and initiating contact, yes, he does those. He says he doesn’t want a relationship, but then he says he has thought long and hard about it and wonders if he is making the right choice.

  66.  #66prplpsn28 on April 1, 2015 at 5:51 pm


  67.  #67lovetodance on April 1, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    thank you azure and april rose for your response to my post about the man….i feel heard and supported…

    today i had an epiphany….just see him in my minds eye as whole and healthy and really really see this as love being given to me…in fact all day long i have reminded myself of

    ‘Swimming in an ocean of love’

    oh my goodness what a lovely image and feeling it has brought me….i have had at least 3 people tell me in different ways that i was beautiful today..oh my goodness..how powerfull our thoughts and images are…

    the man and i…i feel free now …at the present ….to enjoy what he has to share with me NOW…..i don’t have to burden myself with the this and that and heavy feelings of what if i reject him and on and on….

    i can really practice being in the moment with my heart unzipped….and he does turn me on….
    it may not be my picture of what i want and need….at all…but he is a lover and a friend…not a jailor….i am changing
    i am learning
    this is not easy but i see a window now with some sunshine coming in

    who would have guessed at this late stage of my life that these ‘aha’s’ woudl be unfolding…i thank the divine and this place or siren-nin–nity….this place of first hand experience, struggle, reflection, hard won wisdom, tears, support and joy….

  68.  #68lovetodance on April 1, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    Riley the Owl…

    I wonder how you are today….?

    Yes change is so challenging

    and to be in the role of decider….of heartbreaker…is so hard….i have always felt it easier to be rejected than to reject….its such responsibility and yet i am learning that i and others are stronger than i have imagined…and that its almost an imperative to have both experiences…possibly alot of times to grow the muscles of resilence and wisdom that comes from loving and losing…being left and leaving…

    and yes the sadness that comes with loss…the ripping apart of the velcro of our attachments…inevitable and mandatory for our growth….

    and who knows…as i am finding out….love and friendship is compatible …..becoming not lovers, not a couple…. does not necessarily mean becoming not friends…
    that may seem of course to many sirens…but it is a new vivid concept for this old spicey gal…and i am excited by it….

    i don’t know if i answered your question about sadness…i know that is part and parcel of any big change…and i refer back to mary oliver’s poem…i thinks its called the journey….
    the last line…’the only life you can save is your own’
    so much hugs to you Riley!

  69.  #69RileyTheOwl on April 1, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    You are so sweet and wise and kind, thank you for just talking to me. For letting me know I’m not alone, and offering your thoughts. I don’t have many people to talk to in person, and I’m actually so grateful to talk to you and the other sirens here 🙂

    There. I am grateful for the sirens on siren island.

    (Every hour or so I try to say one or two things I’m grateful for, to show me hope)

    Tonight, I feel strong.
    I feel like I have this tree trunk down my back,
    All my sadness sorrow and grief physically aching in my chest that I allowed to just feel aching in the middle of my body yesterday, all of that feeling, of just letting myself BE how I am FEELING, it has created some sort of strength in me today. It’s like after surrendering completely to my sobs and my love for my sobs and sadness in the dark warm bath yesterday and all the other times I cried, it’s like after experiencing that then sleeping on it, muscles grew overnight and I have broader shoulders and space to feel grateful and happiness alongside my pain.

    I’m glad for this.
    i am surprised and grateful for my strength that I didn’t know was there before,
    maybe because it wasn’t?
    Is this the gaining of wisdom that loss brings us, is that the strength I’m feeling right now?

    Today earlier in the morning I still felt sad, I walked home in the weird and oddly lovable sun/rain/wind/hail/sunny again weather and I felt overwhelmed with sadness. So I cried as I slowly walked, and the sun soothed my face while little raindrop washed my tears away, and then I felt better. I thought, I don’t want to think about C anymore. And now every time I have a thought about him, I catch myself, and I replace it with a pretty pleasant picture.

    He’s contacted me twice now… it’s a little strange hearing from him, it feels too soon and sort of scary, but also oddly good. Which may not be a good thing, because I need to move on. But I also felt scared of telling him this, because I didn’t want him to go away… feeling that I didn’t want him to go away made me feel weak, for once. I felt a bit pathetic too, not wanting him to go away. Oh me, I love that I felt a bit pathetic, but I’m NOT pathetic. I’m just human, I have wants, but how about that beautiful scene with the warm sun warming my face while I wade in the warm waters somewhere tropical? Mmmm the water is so calm and full and welcoming, like my beautiful emotions until the storm whips up.

    Anyways, last night (the night after we broke up) he was all pleasant, saying “Hi Riley :)” and just askign how my day was. Tonight he sent me something a bit more serious. He said “Hey Riley, I know how hard things are for you right now :/ (he was referring to my parents splitting up) I just want you too know that if you need someone to talk to or really if you need anything at all you can always talk to me 🙂 I’ll always consider you one of my best friends”

    …oh goodness. I felt tears come when I read that, he is tender and sweet and still loving. What ?

    Please sirens, what should I do when he sends me these sweet supporting messages? I let it fill me with the good feelings of feeling supported… but, what should I say to him? I have no idea how I should be responding, should I respond to this at all or just let it soak in and build me up? I find it throws me off a bit, honestly.

  70.  #70RileyTheOwl on April 1, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    I feel like swearing now. I feel like jumping into the dark rough ocean in this dark night and plunging past the rough waves into the calm dark depths where I can’t feel anything except my emotions and just feeling serenity floating there in the dark depths like a siren

  71.  #71RileyTheOwl on April 1, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    I don’t want to get rid of all the things he’s given me, because they’re all just so damn adorable. I have a box of notes that he wrote to me when we were 16 in grade 10, and he even made me a teddy bear that always sits on my bed.

    I don’t want to put my teddy in a box!

    Every time I pick it up it looks at me with sad eyes.

    It even has a little note sewn on the back that says made with love and kisses.

    He made it with his grandma for me :p


    I feel like laughing at how adorable that is

    I feel like scolding myself for thinking about all our good times.

    No, it’s okay… it’s okay to remember, but not obsess.
    Yes, he was very sweet. That was his role in my life, of our relationship
    s purpose in my life,

    was to show me how it feels to be loved adored and cared about, given to, to be teddy bear-ed.

    Now I’m all ready to be loved and adored and cared about by the right person.

    Breath innnn

    All the positive energy, gratitude, hope, happiness, the warm smell of my lavender house

    Breath oouuuttttt

    old bad memories, obsessive feeligns, sorrow

    Breath innnn
    the smell of lavender

  72.  #72Millie on April 1, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    Hi Ladies, my relationship was pretty close to perfect and now it feels like, to me, that the dynamic has changed. His job is making him work long hours which in turn he is very tired and we are seeing each other less. He contacts me every day and is still sweet, but it’s not the same as it was. I’m having a hard time dealing with it. I know there is an ebb and flow to relationships and sometimes work does get it the way. I’m just beginning to feel insecure and doubting how he feels about me…. I’ve tried to not allow my insecurity to affect the relationship, but of course it does. I know I should lean back and see what happens, but part of me just doesn’t want to be in a relationship where I feel this way. I’ve talked to him about it, not in those words… And he assures me things will get better when his hours to back to normal. I just miss the man he was to me before this shift happened and I wonder if it will restore itself or maybe this is just not the relationship for me. However, I wonder too if I’m being unreasonable and this is a lesson for me to learn patience and trust. He hasn’t given me any reason to doubt him. I wonder if any man can be at level 10 all the time in a relationship where the waterfall is just flooding me like it was. If anyone has advice id love to hear it. I don’t feel ready to end this and I’m not sure if my reasoning to do so even makes sense. What we have has been really good and I don’t want to throw away a great man for me just because the going got rough and I was being childish. But at the same time, I want my flooding waterfall back.

  73.  #73Femininewoman on April 2, 2015 at 3:09 am

    Millie people are human and sometimes life gets in the way. I don’t think anyone can always be a 10. We all mess up once in a while. How we navigate the rough times is indicative of how skilled we are to navigate relationships. You want to see how he handles things during tough times. You want to see how you handle things during tough times.

  74.  #74Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 4:40 am

    such lovely, siren melodies you are sharing with us…
    sooo soft and rythmic…
    I’m enjoying reading and re-reading…

    I am so sorry for the pain you are experiencing with your parents divorce…
    BIG huggssss darling!!!

    and then on top of that you are growing and spreading your Wings
    there’s this wonderful quote I have on my facebook
    “What if I fall?
    Ohhhhh… but darling,
    What if you FLY?”

    Such lovely poetry your writing is…
    I love the strength of this…
    “I thought, I don’t want to think about C anymore. And now every time I have a thought about him, I catch myself, and I replace it with a pretty pleasant picture. ”

    As for what to say when he contacts you…
    Maybe a smiley face…
    Keep it very short… wait a day…
    love and huggggggsssss!!!

  75.  #75Kath on April 2, 2015 at 4:46 am


    Ooh I hear you sweet Siren- it is soo hard when you know you want and need to move on and find yourself holding onto things. It is really fine- all the feelings that are being thrown up for you right now-Lord knows I know how confusing, upsetting, happy and sad they can be-and all at the same time-Argh!- dealing with them is hard. It is important to remember why it is the way it is and what you want and need from a man. If he can be a friend and you are happy with that thought, then I don’t see a problem with that. It was important for me to tell my now x-man that I loved him very much but wanted more from a relationship. He told me himself that he was “emotionally spent” from all the stuff he’s put himself through over the years and I know that will never change or get any better. He’s also 9yrs older than me and as I’m 48 this year- I kind of want someone a little closer to my own age who can BE with me!- My X and I share certain things and have a bond through his children and grand children-which the children want to maintain and I am happy with that. I am continuing to grow into the woman I want to be-and hopefully all the good things I need in my life are gravitating towards me because of my new found vibe!- To live the life you want you have to be authentic in everything you do-Huge hugs to you xxx

  76.  #76Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 4:49 am

    Sweet darling!!!
    Wow… a “close to PERFECT relationship” is NOT one to be tossed just ’cause the “going got tough”…

    I’d look for the triggers for YOU in all of this…
    I have found, when things like this start happening…
    these are MY triggers… a GIFT…
    to examine closely and experience…
    sit with
    take the focus OFF of HIM..
    and on to YOUR LOVING SELF!!!

    You are navigating this all so welll…
    I can only imagine the anxiety this is causing
    as the relationship shifts…
    You shared your feelings about not seeing him
    and HE has assured you… Ahhhh… the reassurance…
    How masculine and caring… He heard your concern and comforted you!!!
    Look at ALLLL the goodness he brings…
    open your lovely, soft heart and
    receive alll of that from him and
    your friends,
    family, neighbors…
    There is LOVE everywhere for YOU
    lovely Millie

  77.  #77Kim on April 2, 2015 at 5:27 am

    Hmmm, well lovergirl that doesn’t sound like an ‘all is lost’ situation, but I would definitely do what the others are suggesting and what you seem to be doing..just CD and keep the focus on you and stay open I guess.
    I have met a lot of half-hearted men, who want me and then when push comes to shove they don’t, a bit like this…they still even contact me now, but in the meantime someone came along you wanted me 100%, and I think it’s good to stay open to that….you just never know 😉

  78.  #78Kim on April 2, 2015 at 5:29 am

    63 Azure thank you! I guess man can change and change their minds but I found it usually happens when I have given up wanting it to change….I guess the pressure is off?
    Then a surprise!
    How are things with you and Spirit?

  79.  #79Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 6:43 am

    thank you for asking…
    He is doing the BIG withdrawal…
    AFTER HIS big time push for exclusivity and working on the issues we both realize we’d like to make work… spending 2 weeks in constant contact etc.
    we havnt seen each other in 2 weeks… sporadic texting… NO Calls…

    I did say last Sunday…
    “I am feeling worried, I’m wondering is there something wrong? Is there something you can share to help me understand…”
    Spirit… “No… having brunch with daughter and practicing golf after…”

    No contact again… for 3 days…

    I won’t contact anymore… I have leaned forward last Friday… asked the question on Sunday…

    I’m looking at my triggers, loving on me…
    taking care of alllll the MANY things that
    need to be done on MY to do list!

    But it is VERY scary to see him withdraw

    for the past 4 months he had been coming towards me…

  80.  #80Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Don’t want to downplay the support Spirit gave me
    last Friday night when I shared with him it was
    11 yrs. ago my fiance died in an accident…
    He listened and offered comfort to the tragic story.
    Even though it was late at night he tried to console me…
    and stayed in contact on Sat…
    Last fall he had shared with me his grief
    during the 18 yr anniversary since his son’s death…
    I felt honored he would share that precious time
    with me… his thoughts, his feelings…
    I felt closer to him after that…
    I struggle with sharing my not so happy moments with Spirit…
    I felt it was a good opportunity to stretch my intimacy
    muscles more…

    still it is feeling like ME chasing HIM…
    I will STOP now…
    and love ME…
    Cherish ME…
    I feel alllll the love and support from
    this AMAZING Siren Island…
    and EVERYONE in my life…

  81.  #81Victoria on April 2, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Oh Azure!
    Will you be able to wait him out?
    I am so worried reading your post.
    I am looking to see whether I am projecting myself…
    I did have a man once upon a time who blew hot and cold. He did chase me with VERY BIG words and then as soon as he had me he would just disappear…and reappear in a month or so as if nothing happened. I was on and off with him for years, but after the first few months of pining, I realized I should just keep him in the rotation (to use Rori speak 🙂 and not expect too much. When I managed to manage my expectations regarding him we did have some very good times together… I must say that he was super rich and super charming… He is no longer a part of my life, but I definetely do not regret having met and having had him as a lover. I do not want to be with him again but he was great company the times we were together.

  82.  #82Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 7:15 am

    I like the story you have shared about your CD…

    I think Spirit just might be that guy!!!

    It is soooo confusing to see him chase ME hard for 4 months… Make changes in his life to show he really LOVES ME…want me to stop CDing…
    and then POOF…
    But my plan is to give it 4 more weeks… and I’ll get a good look at whether HE is ACTUALLY interested in a
    REAL relationship?
    OR it’s just alll talk… the excitement of chasing me…

    Thank you Victoria for your insight…
    I can put in my rotation… If that is all he wants…
    and continue on my horse to finding MY Mr. Right..
    who can do day to day… into the future!!!
    I know i’m getting closer to that MAN!!!

  83.  #83Victoria on April 2, 2015 at 7:23 am

    I might be totally wrong (as I am at the other end of the world and have never met you) but I do have a gut feeling that Spirit is very pissed about the POF profile… he just would not tell you.
    There is nothing for you to do, either way, but I think he is pouting…
    F. does this to me occasionally. He is quite touchy, but also likes to keep a stiff upper lip, and pretend he does not care, and when he is hurt he does get passive aggressive, becomes even more absend minded and careless. I have learned to recognize it, I smile to myself, knowing there is no cure, I just need to lean back, but they are grown-up little boys you know.

  84.  #84Kim on April 2, 2015 at 7:27 am

    Oh Azure I am sorry :/
    It feels odd to read, I can only imagine how it must feel to you…but yes, you gave him the chance to explain and you stayed open, wow!!
    I understand nobody wants a man that blows hot and cold…one can’t help but wonder what goes on here when a man asks for exclusivity and then is not in your face anymore…I am really sorry.

  85.  #85Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Interesting… Because he hasn’t responded since I tried to clarify the POF incident -3 days-
    I thought maybe it wasn’t a big deal
    BUT it might be a MUCH bigger deal than (any man) Spirit wants to admit…
    I also think (never good to guess what they are thinking) He is angry at himself after chasing me sooo hard… Maybe He’s feeling foolish
    just like Rori says when WE chase, causing us to get angry in the end…
    Sooo… armed with all these great thoughts, darling Victoria…
    I will stay leaning back…
    and be an invitation when he does come forward…
    as I know he will…
    because the Rori Tools are Magical

  86.  #86Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 7:44 am

    then I get to Choose…
    Is his version of LOVE and relationship
    what I want for ME!!!

  87.  #87lovetodance on April 2, 2015 at 8:52 am


    you are doing so well…you are inspiring

    i feel this is difficult….and i feel your determination in the midst of it to not give up your hard won happiness and self love….even tho there are sometimes mighty pits in the road…

    and you are right! we are here sending you love and support and mirroring back your incredible-ness darling….
    a lucky man who will step up…who will win YOU!..with all the lovely human-ness woman-ness that you are!
    fabulous shining vital siren!

  88.  #88Lovergirl on April 2, 2015 at 9:15 am

    @77 Kim-

    I agree, and I am trying to stay open to other men, even though I find it challenging.

    S called me again last night and I tried to cut it short, lol, but it was 55 min instead of 20. He loves to talk and I could tell was a little disappointed that I got off the phone, even then.

    I asked him about his coffee date, couldn’t resist. He said the woman was “nice” but didn’t sound super enthusiastic about her or anything. I asked if he could see marrying her in the future and he said he was going to have to say no to that but that I’m not supposed to ask him questions like that, lol. He said he didn’t think it was a good idea for us to discuss that and that I would remember everyone he talked about and always be asking him what ever happened to so and so? In any case, now I can remind him that he said that when he asks about men I am seeing. 😉

    He also told me that his ex girlfriend (the one he was always going to the movies with, platonically, but it still felt a little threatening) has found someone and he thinks it is getting serious because she hasn’t wanted to hang out with him in like 3 weeks. I guess these female friends do sometimes have a way of weeding themselves out.

    Now I have to wonder if I am going to end up like one of these “friends” or something else. Obviously, I don’t want to be the “friend”. He was asking last night to read my blog (which I have never let him read because it is so personal and also talks about sexual stuff). I said I didn’t think that was a good idea with the way things are with us right now and he was like why because you think it would make me want to have sex with you and we aren’t going to anymore? I could hear the disappointment in his voice.

    He finally agreed to take the stuff I got from the other guy to sell, but I can tell he is still a bit bothered by it. A big part of me wants to reassure him, because I can feel his insecurities about the other guy. I want to say don’t worry, this guy isn’t as handsome as you, he’s not as good in bed, he means nothing to me but I am trying NOT to say that stuff, as hard as it is. I feel bad though, because S says stuff like that to me- like about the woman he met who also had 5 children, he said “she’s not even as pretty as you so why would I downgrade?”

    Anyway, I feel him coming towards me more again and that is making me happy. He texted me this morning, excitedly, about something he sold and he hasn’t done that in awhile. Then he asked me if I could do him a “big favor” and stop by the store and get him some toilet paper when I work at his house later. He said he would pay me back but that he keeps forgetting to get it when he goes to the store and is almost out. (He will be at his day job while I am at his place). That kind of cracked me up. I’m like did he seriously just ask me to buy him toilet paper? Lolol I guess he feels comfortable with me….

  89.  #89Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 9:17 am

    LoveTD #67
    Ahhhh… I do love what you are saying here…
    Enjoying the NOW!!!

    This is lovely.
    “i feel free now …at the present ….to enjoy what he has to share with me NOW…..i don’t have to burden myself with the this and that and heavy feelings of what if i reject him and on and on….”

    You are showing us what Rori is saying here:

    “Circular Dating is the answer.
    And why is it the answer?
    Because of Circular Dating’s brilliant effect on the one thing we all succumb to
    at one moment or another,
    that does us all IN every time we succumb to it
    – A Sense Of Urgency.
    Circular Dating gets you PRACTICING a great number of Tools,
    all at once,
    that can quickly turn nearly ANYTHING around
    for you.”

  90.  #90Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 9:21 am

    LoveTD #87
    I think ONE of my big breakthroughs
    came when I sat…
    simply sat with
    My feelings of self loathing,
    being invisible,
    I didn’t make them move one way or another…
    I simply accepted them warmly and lovingly
    and sometimes Hatefully…
    but Let ME BE ME!!
    for 2 days…
    Ahhh… it seems to have melted MY heart…

  91.  #91Labbit on April 2, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Azure Blu, I am so glad Kim asked as I have been wondering as well! Been thinking of you lately in some of the calmer moments here where I’m not so busy.

    Two weeks might feel like a long time to you. Or it might not, I’m not clear on that from what you say here. But either way I think this is still pretty normal. Not that it matters what’s ‘normal’ or not. All that matters is how YOU FEEL.

    I want to wrap you up in a big hug and take you out for dinner and girl chat because I know all too well all these feelings and triggers that are rushing up for you!! I love your 4 week plan.

    I want to urge you…even as you are hanging back and waiting for him to contact you, when he does text you or call you or whatever, those are the perfect moments to be in YOUR power, to tell him how you feel. It starts with allowing yourself to be open and vulnerable when he does contact you — I know that my pattern was to get hurt or closed off and it’s taken me a good long while to unwind that pattern.

    In those months when TenderCD was bouncing back and forth between here, not here, into me, not into me and waffling on moving the relationship forward, I would start every conversation with him by saying how wonderful it was to hear from him, how good it felt to talk to him, and share one little thing that had happened in my life since we’d last spoken. I’d also ask him how things were with him, because before we went exclusive he’d back off when things like work got too heavy and he couldn’t manage both being focused on work and me at the same time. Seek to understand these things.

    And then I’d tell him a statement of feeling truth about relationship, something like “I know I need to be in a relationship where we’re talking often, where there are not long periods of silence.” That way it’s not about him at all and it lets him know that I’m evaluation him, and that I’m the one who’s selecting whether this relationship continues or not. And then I’d lean back to see how he reacts.

    I’m curious to see what unfolds for you over these next few weeks.

  92.  #92Indigo on April 2, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I am looking forward to sitting down with a glass of wine and catching up on all your stories, but in the meantime I just wanted to ask, are any of you also really sensitive to noise?

    I am, I have been all my life. I can never be in noisy shopping centres or anywhere with lots of noise for long, and any kind of noise in my home environment, especially when I am coming home with the purpose to recharge, drives me absolutely INSANE. I crave peace and tranquility sooo much. I’ve always just kind of accepted this about myself, but now I worry that it’s turning me into a b*tch. I’ve noticed myself snapping at people or moaning at them about noise. I don’t mean to be horrible but it just feels so disturbing to me. I feel my whole body tensing up and feeling myself get so resentful. I don’t feel good about myself afterwards and I DON’T want to control people. Anyone have any suggestions or can relate? I don’t want to feel like a bad person.

  93.  #93Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Ahhh… I feel so happy to hear your Siren song

    And thank you for sharing your wise Siren thoughts
    on how to react when Spirit does contact me…

    Yes… 2 weeks does feel AWFUL… I miss him..
    but the Urgency seems to have gone out of it…
    maybe because I DONT feel ichy from leaning forward… I WILL stop now…

    Because of all the support from you lovely Sirens
    My Friends… my family…
    How loved I feel… My heart is joyous!!!
    Thank you!

    and I have discovered Soooo many Amazing NEW
    things about *ME*
    through this time of being
    triggered by his withdrawal!!

    These are very important things I want to start doing when he does contact me…
    I always say how warm and happy I feel hearing his sexy voice/seeing his text message on my phone

    but I want to bring these other elements into my conversation also…
    To share one thing in MY life
    Ask him a particular question about his life…
    and then share a statement or feeling truth about relationship!!!

  94.  #94RileyTheOwl on April 2, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I am so sensitive to noise. My dad always lives listening to music really loud, and I feel aggravation when I come home (like you) wanting sweet relaxing silence and space where I can expand and soften after a day at school. Or when I wake up in the morning, or in the evenings. He plays music during all those times.
    I dislike it a lootttt

  95.  #95Kim on April 2, 2015 at 9:58 am

    Indigo, me.
    Not just noise, also very bright lights, crowds etc. Occasionally I have confused dates, lol, because when it all gets too much I might say ‘I am sorry, I need to get out of here’ and I walk….whether it is a crowd at an outdoor event, a loud/crowded bar…
    I have always been like this, even as a small child, particularly sensitive to noise and easily startled.
    I do have above average hearing, they tested it not long ago for a medical I needed to take, but I am not sure that explains it. I often feel overwhelmed.
    On occasion, I have flicked the bird to honking cars, just bevause they practically make me fall over, and I find it SO rude how much people honk here.
    I hate noise pollution of any kind and to me, they should receive a ticket for improper use of the horn.
    I could go on and on and on…lol…so yes, totally resonates.
    I even have to walk away from people who talk loudly….seriously, it hurts me physically.

  96.  #96Kim on April 2, 2015 at 10:00 am

    I have no suggestions, in fact, I would welcome them too lol.
    I continually ask MoM to turn down the volume in the car, on the TV..I even get irritated when the engine revs up when he is overtaking….it’s *that* bad.
    He is a very quiet person….just as well, because if he was also speaking loudly, I’d wear EARPLUGS ALL DAY! Lol

  97.  #97Indigo on April 2, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Riley & Kim,

    Thank you SO much, I feel so understood. I can feel that you both know what I’m talking about.


    Yes, all I want after a day at work when I have given my all is to come home and soften and expand. I love how you have put this. All I want is not to feel tense about anything. My family also play the music and the TV a bit too loud and it’s always bothered me, one of the reasons I moved out of home.


    THANK YOU. I feel really understood. I’ve also at times had to ask D to turn the volume down on the music or TV – luckily he is really understanding and I’ve only had to do it like once or twice and now he pre-empts me which is nice. I also battle with people who talk loudly. I often take a step back or make an excuse to leave the conversation. Only last weekend I was going to go out to dinner with a friend and we walked into the place and I told him there was no way I could eat there because of the chaos and noise.

    Kim, yes. It HURTS me physically – hooting, shouting, any kind of noise pollution hurts me. I’m sensitive to light too. I do think it’s part of being sensitive. All my senses are pretty attuned. Apparently highly sensitive people even have thinner skin, literally.

    There must be some ways to cope, to move through the world a little more peacefully? I’ve found using some form of white noise does help a bit, whether soft music or a fan… of course I just try to avoid the sources of noise too. I’m thinking of investing in some comfy ear plugs?

  98.  #98Kim on April 2, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Indigo, last week they were drilling in my apartment building, practically all week. I had to wear ear plugs just to be able to work….in the end I was feeling aggressive, like I could have punched someone, anyone….it’s amazing how much noise pollution can affect us. I think studies are that it affects everybody, albeit mostly subconsciously, but being more sensitive to it like we are, it can be literally painful.
    I have a lot of traffic noise at certain parts of the day, and although I love it here, it has made me crave wanting to move into the countryside…eventually,

  99.  #99Labbit on April 2, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Azure I’m so glad to hear that you are doing well, because you should be!!! I know how tough these weird in-between moments feel, and how at times you just want to either shake him or maybe throw it all away. It may feel awful but those are just old habits talking to you. I’ve learned so much about my nasty voices and how a lot of times it’s my PAST coming back to call on me and make me miserable…and all I need to do is give those feelings room to move around in me so they can eventually find their way out…then I feel much calmer overall. In truth if you let it the time will fly and you’ll hear from SpiritCD in no time. 🙂

    Sending lots of love, hugs and (((((((goodstuff))))))) your way!!

  100.  #100Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 10:38 am

    Indigo and others…
    Me too… Me too… :0))

    I spent MANY happy years on my grandparents farm
    in the middle of nowhere in rural Tennessee…
    ahhhhh… the silence was deafening!! the night was pitch black!!!
    and I LOVED it..

    Now I simply melt when I am out in nature and it is SOOOO still and silent… except for the sound of the breeze, the birds…

    I have lived in my town house for 20 years…
    in the beginning it was very quite here on the outskirts of town…
    Now the city has come out this way and the noise & light pollution is bad!!!

    I love to sleep with my windows open in the summer time… I hate air conditioning…
    I have learned to ignore the sound of the cars etc… because i don’t want to close my windows…

    I have a favorite park down the road from me and the silence is sooooo lovely… I try and go there regularly
    to fill some of my craving for the quite…

    I think having children helped me get over some of my sensitivity to noise… I didn’t want to squelch their exuberance and loud play too much…
    Mind you, I did ask them to calm down many times!!
    i DO love to listen to my radio quite loud though… :0))

    Not sure what other solutions might be…
    I know when places seem too loud and I dont’ want to be b*tchy… I will try and focus on ALLL that is good and try and tell myself it is just for a little while and then I will be ok…

  101.  #101Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 10:41 am


  102.  #102Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 10:46 am

    I think it was Indigo that said
    I am a NEW ME…
    I don’t have to go back to MY old HABITs
    I can do everything all New and different
    and BETTER NOW!! for ME…

    YEs, these days I do feel sooo different!

  103.  #103Indigo on April 2, 2015 at 10:53 am


    (((Azure Blu)))

    Victoria, I have to agree with you about men pouting about things like that. To this day, I cannot watch the TV show “Arrow” because the lead actor is very good looking and D will always make a comment and the air will go chilly and he’ll leave the room. Grown up boys indeed. D invited me over for movies on Saturday night and we spent a wonderful day together on Sunday, having breakfast, going shopping etc. And then on Sunday night I decided to go home, all in all because I considered it more practical, and he said to me kinda sadly “Oh, I thought you were going to say.” It was a small pout. And I didn’t hear from him for 3 days after that. When I did speak to him, I was able to say “I feel like I need to share something with you – I feel disconnected when we go a few days without talking. It makes me feel so happy when I get a message from you”. Azure Blu, have you thought of saying something like that? I wouldn’t have said anything out of preference, but for me there comes a point where things feel too important to be left unsaid. Very much like what Labbit was saying.

  104.  #104Kim on April 2, 2015 at 11:29 am

    Hm. I dunno. To me, that feels like pulling teeth, or at least drilling….I may be totally wrong here but I have come to experience that a man who considers himself all in, and in a committed exclusive intimate relationship wouldn’t go three days or a week without making contact…unless maybe he is upset about something (brooding, even I do that occasionally lol), or emotionally unavailable…
    It all comes down – again – in my eyes, as considering the man as a little dumb not knowing what a relationship looks like (might be the case I guess but at the ages we deal with unlikely), or even not respecting that he is just not as much into it as we are (yet or at all?).
    I don’t see anything wrong with expressing that we would love to hear from them more often, but somehow doing that has always felt a little weird to me, I mean, doesn’t he want to talk to me? And it reminds me a little of the old getting blood out of stone thing, and I must say experience has taught me that the serious, in-love and step up men DO make lots of contact, and DO make lots of dates…BUT:

    I do believe there is a logical progression of things, just like with dating, relationship, live-in, marriage.
    If a man doesn’t contact me, I would always assume it is because he doesn’t want to talk/text/contact me.
    Depending on how long this goes on, yes it feels bad….I would just do my own sweet thing and change the tables.
    This is why, I think, Rori says circular dating smokes those guys out without us having to do anything at all…or explain…
    In the beginning, MoM would go a couple of days or a whole day without contact. He thought nothing of it. I found it annoying and just figured he wasn’t all in (truth even though he considered us having a monogamous relationship even back then, me no)filled my time with things, men and thoughts nothing to do with him. I tried at least.
    Then, when he tried to get ahold of me, and I would not answer my phone or emails for a few hours, he would get pretty insistent, call again, saying ‘was anything wrong?’….and I would just call him back in my own time and yes, be pleasant and also he came to understand that this can work two ways and I am a busy woman not sitting at home twiddling my thumbs waiting for a text/call from him.
    I have to say, this has changed so much as soon as I could feel he was all in, and really, it happened not all that long ago, and was one of the reasons why, when he asked me to give up dating others, I agreed.
    He calls me every day, texts and emails….that was not always the case. But it didn’t happen because I explained I would love more, it happened because he wanted more…and partly I think some of my unavailability and still meeting others…and him doing a little ‘check’ every night lol has made this move forward…now it is a ritual, he calls every night and I love it. Sometimes it is almost too much now, and if I think back on the beginning, I hardly heard from him all day! So this can also change all by itself when a man starts to feel more and wants to step up more…

    I do believe that when they are really into us and love us with all their heart, and want to move the relationship forward and not lose us…when that stage is reached, they will not just fall off a cliff for three days, a week or even two. Why? Because they want to hear from us…they want to have that connection every day…they also (!) want to make sure we are not out with other guys or having fun without them…I think this is almost instinctual.

    I think this whole ‘not enough contact’ thing has a habit of resolving itself, like so many, when we don’t focus on it like it is the highlight of our day when we get a measly txt message.

    However, I would absolutely CD if I wasn’t at that stage with a man yet…I have to say it reminds me of an unavailable boy-man (and very much of MrP), if he expresses the wish we do not date other men, gets jealous etc etc and then we don’t hear from them for days on end. A bit like ‘now I have her’ but not relationship-able…
    That’s not really a relationship I would want, hence CDing might cure that….to me, if I don’t have consistent contact, the man is not keeping up his 50% of what makes a relationship, two people who want to be intimate with each other and share their live/thoughts/feelings/daily chat.

    I think we deserve more. It’s ok to bring that across in a feeling message about contact but if it doesn’t change, I would assume he is not in this for whatever reason. I think I have become pretty mercenary about this because I see how it panned out in my own relationship and how I could never accept less than a man coming at me 100% ever again…so many men out there who are happy to do just that!

  105.  #105Femininewoman on April 2, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    There are guys who use stonewalling when angry. These guys can go weeks without making contact. Up to 8 weeks or more.

  106.  #106Indigo on April 2, 2015 at 12:10 pm


    I am happy for you, and happy this has worked for you. It has not worked the same for me. For a start, I have dated MANY men who made daily contact and plans and wanted to “move the relationship forward” as defined here, and I was not remotely happy with them. I also would not find it endearing if a man asked me if something was wrong if he did not hear from me for a few hours, I would want to throw him off a cliff.

    My point is, these men who “behave beautifully” I have had in bucketloads. I am fully aware they are out there. They don’t make me happy. They don’t understand me. We are not a good fit. For me, expressing that I would love to hear from him more often is perfectly fine for a relationship because, as I’ve said before, it’s not a dealbreaker for me to go a couple of days without contact.

    These men you speak of do not make me happy. THIS man does. Very happy. And I don’t push him or try to get blood out of a stone. I am genuinely happy with what he gives.

  107.  #107Dominique on April 2, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    Indigo – 92 – Yes indeed. Not surprisingly, right? Remove yourself from the situation as soon as possible is the only suggestion I have. Bubbles and tuning it out can help but only very temporarily.

    Love to you.


  108.  #108Waterfall on April 2, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Hi Sirens… Today I am mostly trying to focus on me… But it is hard because my thoughts keep drifting onto him… And then I start to feel all dreamy about him… Abscence makes the heart grow fonder is so true…

    But what is this about? Why is there this deep down incompleteness in me… I feel soooo needy…. So desperate…. I feel like it is coming out of every pore in my body…

    I keep looking at other people thinking how do they walk around seemingly so happy, engaged with their lives, fulfilled… Etc… Etc…

    I know so many single people and I never get vibes of desperation from them, vibes of loneliness… Why do I feel sooo needy? So desperate?!

    Other friends seem so happy, just absorbed in their lives… Just absorbed in the day to day… They serm so happily absorbed and present in the moment… Why not me??!

    I miss D soooo much… I feel absorbed by thoughts of missing him.. Lol, I miss the cuddling, the emotional support…

    But the romance was never as I wanted it to be… I felt a distance that annoyed me and I couldn’t fix… Lol…

  109.  #109Labbit on April 2, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    I suppose what it comes down to for me is that men cannot read our minds, just like we cannot read theirs. And a good man WANTS to please us — that’s a big part of his attraction to us. Sometimes they are just being themselves, living their lives, and don’t even realize that the way they are behaving is bothering us.

    There’s a big difference to me between, say, a man who gets swallowed up by work and lets a week slip by without communicating to a woman who he is very much attracted to, but not yet committed to, and a guy who lets a week go by even after several months of dating because he’s out with other women and wants his freedom.

    In my mind TenderCD and I are very much in love, and yet there are times where he still falls off the cliff of communication. And we are in a committed, exclusive relationship. We’re practically living together at this point but sometimes life becomes ultra busy. Some weeks we talk several times a day like we can’t get enough of each other. Other weeks he’s so wrapped up at work or I am or he’s swamped with something about our apartment that I might not hear from him for a day or two. Or I am and am way too tired after work and apartment stuff to manage anything more than an air kiss when I collapse into bed next to him. Most times he’ll remember to at least check in if I haven’t seen him that day — something simple like, “Love you, completely wiped out right now, need sleep but wanted to say I miss you and can’t wait to see you.” It would be so easy for me to get upset about this because I DO want to hear from him every day. But it’s pointless and would only serve to show him that I don’t trust him.

    There’s a lot of compromise to do in relationship, as I am learning each day. I like to assume that my man loves me and doesn’t want to hurt me. If something feels really bad and is still bothering me days later I tell him. Otherwise, I tend to let his quirks slide much as he accepts my flaws unconditionally. But I never assume he can read my mind. If I want something, I’ve had to learn how to tell him. He might never know otherwise.

  110.  #110Labbit on April 2, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Missed a sentence there — sometimes he checks in with me, but sometimes he does not. If he’s totally exhausted it might be a day or two before I hear from again. And it would be very easy to get upset about that yet I choose not to…

  111.  #111Labbit on April 2, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Kim, I very much agree with your points about effort. When a man wants us forever, he makes it clear. His effort matches that desire strongly. But before he knows that he wants us forever? It might bounce back and forth between periods of intense connection and then cold disconnection. It’s not wrong per se, it’s just him backing up to take stock of things and see whether he has the drive and desire to move forward.

    I suppose where it gets all twisted up in my mind is that there are ebbs and flows. And of course we always have a choice, the choice to stay or go.

  112.  #112Millie on April 2, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    Thanks Femininewoman and Azure. I’m gonna try to lean back and stay positive and see what happens.

  113.  #113Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Indigo, Labbit and Kim,
    This is Such great feedback…
    I am a MASTER at NOT talking about what I need and want… I have been working hard at changing that…
    Stuffing my feelings down has NOT Worked at all for me…
    Rori’s tools have helped me to speak my feelings softly so others can hear and NOT feel accused..

    Spirit does listen when I use feeling messages..
    he has changed quite a few things when he realized it was upsetting me…
    He even came up with solutions so it is a win win…

    I do want to say this to him…
    “I feel like I need to share something with you – I feel disconnected when we go a days without talking. It makes me feel so happy when I get a message from you.”
    Thank you all sooo much for sharing your thoughts and opinions on this..
    SOOO helpful!!

  114.  #114Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Rori says, actually, Feeling messages
    are NOT to make ANYONE change…
    They are to Share with others
    what we are feeling…
    THis IS the juiciness that causes closeness and intimacy…
    it is up to the other person to decide IF/How they will react.

  115.  #115RileyTheOwl on April 2, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Oh my gosh. I just saw C, I was all alone in the hallway and he came up to me smiling, and I noticed how good he looked, which made me feel a hurting and longing somewhere in me. Oh sirens, he wanted his bike lock. I want him back, and he wants his bike lock, and I felt this pain, and I tried to be all cool and calm and I told him it’s at my dad’s. He left, and said no feelings or did anything, and I’m crying so hard right now as I type this in the bathroom of my school and I miss him. I can’t get over him.

    Sirens please just give me adixe, any advice, to keep me from spiraling downward here.

    Either I need to get over him and move on, so how can I up my confidence when we collide like this?

    Also, there is the possibility that in a few weeks or a month or so he’ll want to give it another shot. How do I up my vibe and my energy so I can inspire him to want me back? Yes, I did break up with him, because I needed to find myself and have some space. but now it feels so painful.

  116.  #116Azure Blu on April 2, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Ohhhh.. I am so sorry you are feeling so much
    sadness and confusion right now…

    Was this your first love?
    Your heart is so tender and scared right now…
    What helps me… Is to picture a gentle, warm,
    flow of LOVE like water…falling from my head to my toes… Lots, and lots of warm love flowing
    all down me…
    Or sometimes I picture a container of LOVE..
    pick a scent that you really love…
    mine is gardenia…
    it is smooth and soft like body lotion…
    and I slowly take a scoop of it with my hand
    and slather myself allllll over with
    this sweet, scented lotion of LOVE…
    hugging yourself,
    loving your feelings of sadness,
    grief… loss…
    Hang in there RTO…
    don’t despair… I know how awful this can feel.
    but it does get better…

  117.  #117RileyTheOwl on April 2, 2015 at 11:26 pm

    Azure, yes my heart feels so tender right now, the smallest things are changing my feelings completely. but I’m feeling a whole array of things, from the most icky things to the most grateful happy feelings, so that’s good right? 🙂

    When I wrote that post that you’re responding to earlier today it was just moments after I talked with him, and I was feeling positively miserable having a crying breakdown in a bathroom.

    Now it’s late at night, I’m going to bed soon, but I am responding to this first because I’m so grateful you’re just talking me through my grief. It helps so much.

    Yes, in a way this is my first love… although I did have a boyfriend in grade 9 which I know sounds like it doesn’t even count, but he was abusive and I developed so many intimacy issues from that short lived relationship which I’m STILL working through. So it was significant in that sad way to me. But C is my first love, first real love who treated me well and who I had a real relationship with.

    Yes Azure, confusion is so prominent right now,
    because I broke up with HIM,
    but I feel like he broke up with me???
    That is so confusing.
    This is all hard.

    Tonight I got home and had the house to myself till really late, I listened to music in the dark and danced, whenever I feel my sadness come up or some other feeling like confusion or misery I sit right down and check in with myself and try to nurse my feelings.

    Then I played more energetic music and did a room cleanse. I took all the things that I have from C, his love notes, love letters, pictures of us, the scarf he made me, the bracelet he bought me, his sweaters and everything I have of his, the teddy bear he made me (sooo bittersweet looking at that teddy and the love notes.. I honestly felt so.. I don’t know what it was… like oh my goodness these are all the sweetest tokens of love ever, what on earth happened??? To his love for me?? sighh)
    I cleansed all those.
    In a box in my basement now,
    I just put them there before coming to talk to you, and I sat there and had one last look at everything, I felt a smile, I said to myself
    you are such a magnet. You are so lush and beautiful and attractive to men.
    These are all tokens of love that have been given to me, from my now past boyfriend, I am ready to leave him and move on. I am ready to take all the sweetness he’s given me, showed me, whoa just look at these beautiful love-filled tokens, they are for ME .They are STILL for me, but I’m putting them here in this box so I can focus on my own energy and not be saddened by their presence. When I feel more stable and grounded some day in the future, I can look at these safely and have them boost me up. but right now these things make me feel sad so they are out of my life for now.

  118.  #118RileyTheOwl on April 2, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    Azure, I love the flow of love you’re describing…
    Thick, sweet, liquid love pouring down
    I’m a fountain,
    and it’s sparkling, shimmering down my front, my back, my hair is streaming down me, eyelashes dripping, corners of mouth smiling under the water droplets resting on my cheeks and lips
    all love, seeping into me, kissing my skin,
    I feel like raising my arms and letting it pour out of my fingers.. cascading down my body,
    Riley, this is all love 🙂 <3 I'm loved, oh sweet body, you are loved. sweet soul, I love you, and most of all I love my beautiful emotions flowing like a waterfall through my insides and twirling and swirling like colourful ribbons in my body:)

    Thanks Azure, today when I got home after my breakdown in the washroom I read a lot of Rori's stuff from her website, just refreshing, and it felt really to use her tool of imagining myself as a magnet. I felt like the old sireny me again. Infact, this grief and saddness has me checking in with myself even more than I ever have before, because I'm just finding my self so concerned and caring about how I'm doing!! more than ever before!!! isn't that amazing?
    Thank you <3

  119.  #119Indigo on April 3, 2015 at 12:08 am


    I agree with what you’ve written in posts 108 – 110.

    Also, when I am really busy, such as for example I’ve just started a new job. It’s a brand new career and there is SO much for me to learn, the first couple of days I had no time or energy to communicate with anyone during the day. When I got home all I wanted to do was collapse into the bath and then bed. During these times it’s easy for me to forget to communicate, even with people I care for a lot, to forget to reply to a message or even to forget that we haven’t spoken. I’ve had people in my life get insistent with me about communication during busy times and it just doesn’t work for me. If I feel like that, it’s easy for me to see how D might feel like that sometimes, and I’ve chosen a man who is very like me in that way.

    When it starts to feel bad or disconnected however, I do think it’s up to us to say something. We cannot expect men to know all the moves of relationship or to get it right all the time.

    And these days when I express my feelings, I make sure to do it in a way that doesn’t make him wrong or have expectations, it is really more about me getting it off my chest. Like Azure Blu said, it’s more about me feeling like I need to express myself than expecting him to change. And I only deliver a feeling message about something like this once or twice, and after that I act accordingly.

  120.  #120Kim on April 3, 2015 at 3:23 am

    Labbit and Indigo, yeah well I do agre with you, but I do see a relationship a little different…and there is always time for a call if he wants to. My guy often just calls me on the drive home, especially if it is late.
    Imagine, I mean, I cannot imagine not hearing from my man for two days. That is not a relationship I would want, but everybody is different, and again it is not something I asked him to do. It is somethin he wants to do, and it has been growing over time…
    Which is what makes it even better……

  121.  #121Kim on April 3, 2015 at 3:35 am

    106 Indigo, with all due respect I do not think you have met all billions of men on the planet to say they cannot make you happy lol.
    It is just not possible. I also have a fairly uncommunicative man, and not a gung ho dash forward, it has been more organic….and up and down….but I never really had to ask for more, it kinda came organically…but my point was that had I been exclusive and clinging to him and not CDing, I would never have gotten this probably and would still be asking him after three days of not hearing, like you, ‘it feels sad/bad/lonely’ whatever. As it happens, luckily, I do not need to, because I know if this doesn’ work out there are plenty of men out there, and somewhere surely one who can make me happy again….this is progress. When I was so stuck on my unavailable man I thought there is nobody like him out there bla bla….and was just standing in the way of my own happiness, as we do…..and of course I do not know your situation but a lot of your posts read to me like getting blood out of stone…you know, having to explain to a man it feels bad not being invited to a party or whatever….or being ok with less…and again I am probably wrong, just how they come across. I believe for me love feels different, easier, more energy and initiation from the man…but again, we are all different…
    What matters is whether you are happy most of the time with a man, and you seem to be?! So it’s all good!

  122.  #122Azure Blu on April 3, 2015 at 4:35 am

    I know this sounds unbelievable…
    And i have read many testimonials on here
    about just this kind of thing….
    Here is Mine…
    Last night… just before I started my workout….
    I went upstairs to put my hair up in a pony tail…
    I was giving my boy all kinds of love and praise
    for giving me the energy and self discipline to
    keep up with my workout schedule… :-))

    I also started thinking about Spirit…
    Let go… and realized I probably wouldn’t
    hear from him until May… to keep that date
    in my mind so I can gently, just move on…

    Literally, minutes later the phone rings…
    It’s Spirit…
    I couldn’t believe it!!!

    I had looked at my text yesterday and realized
    I had only just textd him my explanation
    on the POF incident on Tues. so really only
    one day had gone by since I had heard from him…

    I wanted to get my workout in…
    then my son came home and wanted
    to talk… i NEVER pass up that opportunity!!!
    He left a message about meeting him at a local
    restaurant…He was VERY aplogetic…
    it was an hour and half before I could
    call him back…
    which was fine…
    I had to work last night and I didn’t want to
    just run right over there
    after not seeing him or hearing much from
    him for 2 weeks…

    once again… he gave his daughter was the reason
    he had not much contact…
    I was warm…
    listened to the one-sided conversation
    and “ohh…” and “that sounds sooo stressful…”
    “I feel honored you are sharing this with me…”
    “I feel close when you tell me about what is
    going on in your life…”
    he has started golf again… it’s getting warm here..
    it was half hour conversation…
    No attempt at making a date… :-/
    He’s broke – starting a new job…

    I don’t have time to tell any more…
    How do I feel?
    I feel angry!!! confused!!!
    abandoned… invisible!!!
    … his daughter… work….Golf
    Just like the first time when i
    told him I understood that work and his daughter
    came first… but I would need to date others
    to give him space to take care of all of that…

    I am in the middle of my 2 month experiment…
    I want to run away… abandon ship…
    BUT i would be missing out on alllll
    the important stuff I want to learn!!!
    to see if Spirit CAN step up when we are exclusive
    (he has been pushing for this for 4 months!!!)
    I feel kinda numb this morning…
    nice to hear from him, but not much hint
    of boyfriend, girlfriend… closeness…
    gotta go…
    big meeting this morning…

  123.  #123Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 6:34 am

    121 Azure Blu — Just my $0.02, while I think it’s totally fine to give Spirit a chance to step up and give him his space, I can’t imagine waiting on any man like this. When you two decided to do a committed relationship did you talk about what that meant for each of you?

    Your comments lack your usual vibrancy and have a brave face on them. I can’t say I would feel any differently in your shoes…I’d probably be feeling pretty hurt by now. When TenderCD was waffling I was NOT waiting around for him. You’ve mentioned filling up your life with activities and that all sounds fabulous. How about some dates? I was going on 2-3 dates a week while TenderCD figured things out. Never pressuring him, never throwing it in his face. So that it became HIS decision to be committed to me exclusively and he was all in, ready to drive. Before I stopped dating other men we had a short but thorough conversation about expectations for each other, and we’ve both put in a lot of effort to live up to that for each other.

    It doesn’t sound to me like Spirit is ready to drive, ready to row that boat right now. Between work and daughter and whatever else, those are all reasonable but reasonable doesn’t work if you don’t feel good.

    I’m not trying to pressure you into any decisions, your heart will guide you in the end. I can only echo back what I’m getting from your comments. This one man does not hold the key to your happiness. YOU DO. And it’s up to him to step up.

  124.  #124Dominique on April 3, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Riley – 114 – This may not be what you want to hear, sweetheart, yet the only way to up your vibe is to take all of your focus off of him, and put it firmly back on you, filling your life up with activities which make you feel good, people who make you smile. He may or may not come back, yet this cannot be your goal, for then you will be holding onto expectations; you will be carrying an agenda, and these set you up for likely disappointment, rarely something good feeling.

    Sending you much love.


  125.  #125Indigo on April 3, 2015 at 8:09 am

    Labbit 122,

    As usual I love what you’ve said here.

    You have given me a bit of a wake up call (maybe helped by Kim lol). Whilst I love D, he is not giving me the commitment I want. Maybe I should be dating. Your experiences as described here have been very enlightening for me, and I welcome your feedback, if you have any.


  126.  #126Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 8:37 am

    124 Indigo — (((((hugs)))))) Our situations seem so alike and yet so different…yes here are my thoughts, keep what feels true to you and let the rest go. 🙂

    From what you have shared here it seems like you and D are making excellent progress. You two have a longer history than TenderCD and I do and perhaps that has made some coils more tightly twisted, so they might take more time to uncoil.

    Here is my question for you, and I do not mean to trigger you so I hope this comes off as gently as I intend: Could you date other men without feeling guilty about it? It’s very easy for me to sit here across the world and tell you that you shouldn’t feel guilty about seeing other men, but is that your experience? There is a root deep within you that spreads out into several branches. Trace them backwards.

    In my mind and heart unless you are in a committed relationship that you have defined together and agreed to together, you should be dating. Out there with D, and men besides D. It’s not about forcing D’s hand or driving towards any end goal. For me this aspect of circular dating was critical in 1 – building my confidence up so I could hold my boundaries with Tender and say the hard things (the latter has already become one of your newfound strengths!); 2 – reminding me of what courting feels like, what it looks like and feels like when a man is SO excited about me and stepping up in every way to win me; 3 – allowing me through that newfound confidence to then inspire those courting and claiming behaviors in Tender — but not because I made it happen, rather because I learned how to draw out what he already felt inside in a safe way for both of us. Does this make sense? I learned to feel safe with myself so he could feel safe with me.

    There was also a point back in October, and man I wish I could find this part of me again, where I flipped the ‘concern for TenderCD’ switch off entirely. I was very clear in my head and my heart that I needed to get out there, date like mad, and TenderCD was either going to get in front of me on the bridge or I was going to attract an even better man who would, quickly. At times this felt awful, I cried out of guilt after conversations where TenderCD asked me out but I already had plans, or he’d figured out I’d had a date and was clearly crestfallen and yet in my heart of hearts I DID NOT CARE because he wasn’t stepping up, or when he got angry at me for not making him my top priority and really how silly is that? Even now writing it I feel pangs of guilt, and yet without those moves I’m not sure he ever would have been inspired to claim me out of his own regard. How silly is it that at times I’d care more about hurting his feelings when he’d made no commitment to me than taking care of my own? Dating is supposed to be fun and I take it all so seriously.

    To me the critical thing is that TenderCD drove the commitment discussions and all the moves around it. I didn’t ask for it at all, he brought it up out of the blue while we were making Christmas plans. I lived my life and took care of me, even when it felt hard and wrong. I don’t see any reason why you can’t do this as well and still have D. You can date and still move things forward with him in a way that feels good to both of you. If you are not there yet (or if you never get there) it’s OK. Whatever feels right in your heart is OK Indigo. You can’t do it wrong.

  127.  #127Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Also Indigo, if you do decide to CD others, I wouldn’t bring it up to D and I wouldn’t start a commitment discussion either. I would quietly take care of myself and let him drive the talks about it in every way, telling myself that it’s OK to take care of myself and that I love him and this is going to work out exactly the way it’s supposed to, and that he would never hurt me intentionally.

  128.  #128Indigo on April 3, 2015 at 11:01 am


    It’s not that I feel guilty about CDing, I’m clear that I have the right to until there is a proper commitment on the table. D has repeatedly said he does not know when he will be ready for that, so I don’t feel guilt about it really. I also don’t bring up commitment or relationship discussions with him as I don’t see the point, if we ever talk about it it is him whose brought it up, usually when something is weighing on his mind. I have to admit I don’t usually know what to say in these discussions because, um, what do you say when a guy starts talking about the relationship but there is no commitment? There is nothing to say really is there? It’s become easier to tell myself that it will all be ok and work out as it’s meant to, although at times it still is a MAJOR challenge.

    Sometimes I manage to turn off my concern for D and sometimes I don’t. I care and I don’t care about him getting jealous or worrying about losing me. Does that make sense? I have both feelings. I battle with being so emotionally close to someone and yet not depending on them for all the relationship stuff. My ex-husband and I were married for 5 years and together 4 years before that and we were absolutely as thick as thieves. We remain good friends to this day.

    I battle a bit with the casualness of CDing. I am fine with CDing but just do it on a lower scale than some of the sirens on here. That is because it can get a bit overwhelming and also it is rare for me to meet a man I actually want to see more than a handful of times. That is where CDing falls flat for me a bit. But I am willing to try it again. I think it may be essential for all the reasons you and Kim have mentioned.

    When I read your story the image that comes to me is of an eagle spreading her wings and flying. I don’t think I have that boldness when it comes to my romantic life. I am bold when it comes to work – I have just started a brand new career and I dare say it took a GREAT deal of boldness, but I’m so much slower and more cautious when it comes to love.

    Even so, I think I am willing to open my options and widen my horizons a bit. There is a gorgeous new man at my new work who has been extremely helpful and whilst I am not thinking of him as a prospect, it certainly did feel good to open a little and just receive his help and kindness and be open to a man who was not D for a bit.

  129.  #129Azure Blu on April 3, 2015 at 11:22 am

    Ahhh… Indigo and Labbit…
    Yes… GREAT discussion…

    Yes, I am hurting, confused… :-((
    But this is what you all mentioned would happen with Spirit
    trying to decide IF he wants to step up…

    about commitment and Spirit…
    After 2 months of exclusivity with Spirit, for 4 months, I have been cding/dating MANY other men while dating Spirit
    I told him, 6 months ago… “daughter, work …
    is alll very reasonable, but I don’t want to put any more pressure on you, I would feel more comfortable to go back to dating others.”
    He pouted BIG time… and then proceeded to step up in lots of ways…
    and spent 4 months convincing me he is MY guy…

    One night, out with friends and Spirit, we were having a great time…
    I had a little too much to drink, got VERY anxious about many things and blew up at him and kicked him out…

    Fast forward to 4 weeks ago… He got VERY excited about us just dating each other…
    How much he likes, loves and has adored me since the beginning… Etc, Etc,
    BUT I did not clarify what a committed relationship would look like..
    I thought it was important
    to concentrate on good times…
    share My feelings…
    stop my nit picking, be kind and respectful which I need to practice…
    (something he had mentioned when we broke up)
    and experience Spirit all on his own..
    without other CD’s to buffer any uncomfortableness I might feel
    and want to ignore!!!

    I am a Queen of CDing…
    I have done this WAY before Rori…
    I’ve been dating for 20 years…

    The part I want practice with is this part right now that I am navigating with Spirit…
    for ME to
    manage my ANXIETY when it is one on one!!
    WITH someone I love/like a lot!!

    -NOT close down… push away… stuff my feelings-

    I HAVE opened my heart to Spirit (He has Many of the characteristics I am looking for)
    to see what *I* can handle…
    I want to Grow my intimacy muscles…

    I can usually, (I’ve done this with another CD)
    get a REALLY good idea
    after these 2 months –
    whether or not Spirit IS the man
    I want
    and can let him go more easily
    after 2 months
    of ME being an invitation,
    Warm on the outside… strong on the inside…
    already (in these past 2 weeks)
    I have learned sooooo much about ME
    I am NOT falling apart (as badly) because of what HE
    is or is NOT doing…
    There is NO URGENCY…
    My life is full of LOVE and SOOO much more
    I am changing Sooo much everyday…
    It’s Breathtaking…

    And YOU, MY wonderful Goddesses on Siren Island,
    Are a blessing I would have never dreamed of!!
    Love to you all… Your hearts ARE golden

  130.  #130Azure Blu on April 3, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Sorry… it looks like i have repeated myself quite a bit…

    The most important thing is
    MY MEETING Went Great this morning!!!
    My clients are happy…
    and my daffodils are about to bloom…
    Ahhh Spring IS a time to Renew…

  131.  #131Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    128 Indigo —

    You wrote, “I have to admit I don’t usually know what to say in these discussions because, um, what do you say when a guy starts talking about the relationship but there is no commitment?”

    I would probably share something along the lines of, “Thank you for sharing where your head is at right now. It feels really good when you open up to me like this, and I feel so comfortable knowing what’s going on inside of you. I’m having lots of fun with you and don’t want to pressure you. I want to share what I’m feeling right now too. I know I need to be in a relationship where…”

    Yes, I can very much understand the feelings of simultaneously caring and not caring, it does make perfect sense to me. Sometimes reconciling those two can be so hard…how can I love someone so much and want to be with them forever and yet also feel so frustrated by them and their seeming lack of progress or evolution, even as I grow by leaps and bounds?!? Maybe everything is just where it’s supposed to be right now and that alone is difficult to understand or feel good about.

    I didn’t let any CDs get very far either. I think the man who came the closest was KeyCD who I may have mentioned once or twice here. I dated him for nearly three months but had to let him go when he asked me to be his girlfriend. He knew from the beginning that I was dating someone else and unsure where it was going, but guessing that things with TenderCD were going to deepen. KeyCD didn’t mind and made a grand pursuit for me…something which still touches me deeply. He paid forward an investment in me that I’m sure he’ll receive back from a wonderful woman. KeyCD was the catalyst for TenderCD asking for commitment though. Tender felt like he was starting to lose me. Perhaps he was. I hear you clearly though about not being interested beyond a few dates with any man who is not your chosen guy…I felt the same and things have worked out just fine for me. I cannot pinpoint why though.

    It is my guess, dear Indigo, that perhaps the only brick left in those old walls is that D knows you’re waiting on him. Perhaps he will never be ready to do relationship. Or maybe he just wants to wait until it will be a surprise. 🙂 Certainly I cannot say what is going on in his mind, but I can say that it will not hurt to spread your wings a bit. TenderCD has told me that he knew he’d commit to me eventually, but that fearing losing me — like, really really losing me — was what made him want to do it NOW.

  132.  #132Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    129 Azure Blu — Yes, you are doing wonderfully! If that doesn’t come across on my comments I want to say it loud and clear, because you are inspiring me dear Siren!!

    Yes, this is absolutely the ping-pong that I’d expect to happen while an unsure man makes up his mind. I suppose where my mind is right now is that Spirit made a strong pursuit and has now fallen off a bit of a cliff…not the end of the world by any means, but not a reason to stop your life and your opportunities either.

    I feel so glad your day has been wonderful! Our first flowers are blooming in the park near my apartment too..what a gorgeous holiday weekend it will be. 🙂

  133.  #133Azure Blu on April 3, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    Thank you again for your ever present
    warm, melodic, wise, full hearted
    Siren song… ;0)

  134.  #134Indigo on April 3, 2015 at 12:53 pm


    Thank you for going over all of this with me.

    Today I really did entertain the thought of D losing me forever. He sensed it and suddenly came towards me and softened. It actually really annoyed me though because I actually do want a proper commitment. There is something about “I don’t know” that I find hard to respect – even though it is perfectly honest and truthful and represents where he is.

    If I can mentally get to the place of properly spreading my wings romantically I think it will help. I must say yesterday at work when the gorgeous guy, who also happens to be really interesting, intelligent and kind, was sitting with me helping me, I did get this expansive feeling like there are other men out there, that yes maybe D could lose me one day. I don’t want to sit around waiting for him, definitely not. I don’t know if he can step up properly one day but I know my waiting would not help that at all. My suspicion is, and always has been, that he can and he will, but only some time into the future, like a couple of years. In the meantime, I really do need to treat him like a date and somehow find a way widen my view.

  135.  #135Azure Blu on April 3, 2015 at 1:04 pm


    “What if I fall,
    Oh but my darling,
    What if you FLY!”

  136.  #136Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Mmhm yes Indigo, isn’t it funny how our men will step forward when they feel that rush away from them? It really is the bubble Rori talks about. It’s so ANNOYINGLY counter-intuitive to me. I feel like the very things I need to do at times feel so wrong, and how am I ever supposed to trust my gut if the right thing to do FEELS wrong? I get twisted up into knots over this sometimes.

    Unfortunately I am not one of those magical “natural” women for whom men are easy. I wish I had that ease but my talents lie in other areas. I’ve come to accept and embrace that for me, the road with men is always going to be a little more difficult and won’t make any sense to me at times.

    Anyway, you have my support every step of the way Indigo. I have a feeling that the moment you can really truly forget about commitment and even forget about D at all to some degree, that is when the space will open up for things to happen. But I do not want to trivialize this; I know it is so much harder said than done. You are doing so well!!!

  137.  #137Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    Also that man at your work sounds HOT. Just had to throw that in there, haha. And I am sure he thinks you are drop dead gorgeous.

  138.  #138Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Oh my god where is my brain today?? That second-to-last sentence should be “I know it is so much EASIER said than done.” not harder, duh. Good lord, LOL.

  139.  #139Labbit on April 3, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    Indigo I moved our convo over to the new thread. 🙂

  140.  #140Indigo on April 4, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you for the hugs and the encouragement 🙂

  141.  #141Indigo on April 4, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Dominique 107,

    No, not surprising at all 🙂 I was wondering if you were also very sensitive to noise.

    I tend to agree. Nothing really helps until the noise stops. I plan my outings with expert precision to minimise my exposure to city noise. At home I have taken to switching on the fan which has a soft whirring noise which blocks out most of the outside noises, and this is helpful. But I’m only truly comfortable when there’s peace and quiet.

    As an aside, my new job affords me LOTS of peace and quiet and this is heavenly.


  142.  #142Victoria on April 7, 2015 at 12:22 am

    Lovergirl, Azure, Indigo,

    Sooo, I had two very good guesses in the last couple of days.

    I wonder whether this is a sign that I see the speck in my sister’s eye, not seeing the log in mine, to paraphrase the famous saying :-).

    I am quite a jealous person… I have come to accept this part of me, I think in fact jealosy, which is a form of competition, can drive you to grow and develop.
    And I think, as a matter of principle, that it is good to try not to provoke jealosy in your partner. Treat others the way you like to be treated.


    You have the choice now to end the relationship altogether, or try to be friends with him (very difficult given the chemistry between you) or be business partners (even more difficult) or continue being a little bit of everything to each other for the time being, just making a formal truce and agreeing with each other not to bring up other men and women in your conversations AT ALL. I think you definitely would benefit from speaking to a real coach who can help you clarify your thoughts and feelings for you.
    As to how you can compete with another woman who is richer/taller/shorter/prettier/single etc., there are at least two different answers to this question that come to my mind.
    1) The Rori answer: you need to out-girl her. Be more feminine (I think you already have this advantage). A part of being feminine is being very nice to the man and making him feel good about himself, instead of making him feel like an agressor. Difficult in your situation but not impossible if you think about it from this perspective
    2) The EMK answer. Emotions apart, having 5 children who are dependent on you does not make you an ideal partner for a single man who wants to be a dad to, and here comes the twist, black children.
    You might be however ideal for someone who already has his own children and/or does not want to have any more kids, meaning, a divorced man, possibly older. Your energy will be much better spent redirecting your attention to other men than trying to change what S. wants at this point in his life.
    So, there are different ways to deal with the situation, and I trust you will be best advised by a professional coach.
    Otherwise, I am sending you love and hugs… You so remind me of my friend I was telling you about Brilliant woman, very intelligent, nice, kind, wonderful friend, just not lucky in love. My heart goes for you.

  143.  #143Stacy on April 8, 2015 at 7:08 am

    I’m just as unlucky. Single mom. What to do? The men come and go. More going than coming. Before that I had more than I knew what to do with. Nothing to do I suppose

  144.  #144Rori Raye on April 8, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    Stacy – Try my Siren Mom program – and contact Certified Coaches Tatia Dee http://www.powertolove.com and Catie Jacobs at http://www.BeFirstInHisHeart.com both have the single mom thing where it’s “raining GOOD men” DOWN – and can help you fast…Love, Rori

  145.  #145Stacy on April 9, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Thanks Rori. I have your Complete Collection and it’s been very helpful. It’s just hard when there are roadblocks that distract and frustrate both the guy and the girl,