A Good, Sweet, Lovely, Handsome, Talented, Artistic, Sexy Man Goes Wanting….How Can That Happen?

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linda-landonMy family’s friend “John” asked me for help with his online dating profile.

I read it, was repulsed.

I thought: How can such a fabulous man turn out such a horrible profile that makes me want to slap him instead of kiss him?

Before I answer that, and tell you what a wonderful man he truly is – let me ask YOU:

Are YOU ignoring a great man like John online who wrote a bad profile? Are you letting a man with a slightly “bad” attitude, a bit defeatist and defensive get away because you don’t think you can fix him?

The classic “good woman” of literature, legend and myth actually exists.

She’s actually YOU.

You… doing nothing special, unusual, hard or effortful.

Just you, being you.

You are automatically a healing presence. You are automatically the “good woman” who turns rough men into diamonds.

The question is: “How do I do that?”

And the question to ask even BEFORE you ask that one is:

“Am I ignoring a whole plateful of men because I don’t want to bother “fixing” them?”

“Do I believe I can’t impact a man in even the smallest way?”

A “good woman” encompasses a lot of qualities: Radical Accepting, choosing Love over Fear as much as possible, and straight-truth-talking.

Most men who are awkward and have fallen into defensive and defeatist patterns aren’t immediately attractive (unless you like that sort of thing) – and so, when you find yourself in conversation with them, you’re likely reacting in a predictable way, too:

Defensive, argumentative, trying to change him (this can become a political argument, or a business argument, or a debate about spirituality…). Finally getting bored or scared or offended and walking away.

What if, instead, you just said:

“Wow, the way I heard that just turned me right off. You’re so handsome and smart, I’m sure you could find a way to turn me on, instead….”

…and see if anything magical would happen?

Right now, try this: Sift through your memories and your online dating files, and see if you can locate men floating around who write such horrible profiles and present themselves so horribly at parties.

And instead of passing them up – what if you talked to them straight-from your heart? Maybe there’s a diamond (like John is) underneath the rubbish and rubble?

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Femininewoman on November 11, 2013 at 7:10 am


  2.  #2Femininewoman on November 11, 2013 at 7:17 am

    How smart

    β€œWow, the way I heard that just turned me right off. You’re so handsome and smart, I’m sure you could find a way to turn me on, instead….”

  3.  #3BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 7:57 am

    Hey Ladies, I need help. Please forgive me for going off topic but I am in over my head.

    For three months I have been dating a guy who is the most physically affectionate, doting, attentive, physically available, and emotionally available man I have ever met. We have actually known each other for over a year, and he tells me he has been watching me ever since. We talk every day, at the very least via text, email and or phone. We see each other between 3-5 days a week. He initiates everything and has never missed contacting me daily since we began dating. I am circular dating, but he is by far the front-runner. He has told me repeatedly that he loves me. Great, right? Wrong. He has a girlfriend, who I know (yes, it sounds terrible). She and I are not friends, but we are in the same big social circle/network marketing business.

    Well, she found out about us this Saturday. Since that time, she has called me, texted me and approached me in person to talk. I declined. She got a hold of his phone, hacked into his FB account and unfriended me. Drama, drama, yes, I know, I brought it all on myself.

    The three of us were at a training event the same day. He sat with me, she sat elsewhere. He and I made small-talk but couldn’t discuss this because so many people were around.

    Since this big revelation, he has still maintained constant contact with me via text only. He keeps saying he will call me to “tell [me] everything asap” It’s been 2 days. Nothing. I leaned forward a tad and texted, “????????!” after the second time he texted me that he would call asap. I normally never text first, under any condition. Normally, I also would never be concerned if I didn’t hear from a guy after 2 days. I am a master at giving a guy space. However, under these circumstances, I am spiraling out of control a bit. He has never leaned back before, never requested or taken “space” before so I feel really, really out of sorts. I have NOT done anything. I have NOT called or anything else. I just feel terrible.

    My question is, how do I proceed when he contacts me? I feel flustered and uncertain. It is too early for us to talk about commitment after 3 months. But, I don’t see how we could continue to date if he is still with her. Everything has changed at the same time nothing has changed. He and I were great until this happened: no fights, all fun. I was very vulnerable and open and he was very nurturing and masculine.

    Any advice would be appreciated. My friends don’t know Rori’s method so they would never understand.

    My initial thought is since he leaned back, I would lean back even further and not respond to texts and calls for a few days, but then what? I really want to take the focus off of the gf/ex-gf during our talk and keep it on me. Suggestions? Thanks.

  4.  #4Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 8:01 am

    In what way is he fabulous? What do you think is fabulous about him?

  5.  #5BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 8:12 am

    He is fabulous in taking care of me. I am very, very strong-willed, but with him I let it all go. I use all of Rori’s tools and he draws nearer. Every good feeling message brings him closer. Every bad feeling message, he immediately tries to “fix” the situation to make me feel better. He is an excellent listener, protector, provider. He is consistent and persistent. He anticipates my needs and meets them.

  6.  #6BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Don’t be mistaken. As fabulous as he has been, I know that I am the prize. It took me years to realize this, but I have a firm grasp on the concept. He’s great because he can lead. Mostly, he’s fabulous because he recognizes how fabulous I am. πŸ˜‰

  7.  #7Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:21 am


    I can’t help thinking of Elsie’s situation when I read yours. She was a siren who posted here a few months ago, and your situation, to me, has a very similar flavor to hers. Basically, a man who is still in some ways involved with another woman, even if not fully emotionally, who is also involved with you and spending time with you, and wooing you and making you swoon and saying all the right things.

    My feeling is, BlueRedLove, you really need to pull your emotions out of there. Spend more time with other people, circular date, skip contact with this guy for a few days here and there. I can’t help feeling this situation has the potential to badly hurt you, the way it is at the moment. You do realize that, since he has a girlfriend, he is essentially cheating with you, right? I’m sorry, I don’t want to judge. But I would strongly urge you to disinvest a bit here.


  8.  #8Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:34 am

    I was reading a bunch of stuff about Narcissistic Personality Disorder today, and whilst I’m not a big fan of labels, it was very helpful.

    I have had a few narcissists come into my life (I think most people have), and most recently I was involved in a relationship with someone who certainly exhibited most of the tendencies. There was a fantastic writer I was reading called Nina Brown, and what was so fantastic about her is that she doesn’t demonise narcissists, or offer ways for them to change. She talks to you if you’re in a relationship with a narcissist, and assumes that you want to stay in said relationship, and the cornerstone of what she writes is getting you to accept the reality and not trying to change them, because it is highly unlikely that they will. Her work is all about getting you to let go of the idea that you can change them, and rather letting go of expectations and fortifying your own boundaries, letting go of criticizing yourself and expecting too much of yourself (because narcissists can make you feel devalued and blamed) and working on more positive self-affirmations. She also talks about ways not to engage with and avoid and not affirm bad behavior.

    It was fascinating. I’d love to buy her book “Loving the Self-Absorbed”.

  9.  #9BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Thank you, Indigo. I am not familiar with Elsie’s situation. The more I think about it, there really isn’t anything for me to do, but live my life. I don’t much feel like dating anyone right now. My other CD me off for our date last night and I was relieved. Lol. I don’t know what Rori says about this but I have had gotten great results with ignoring guys. They usually come back, with their shit together, begging to be with me. By then I never want them. I say all that to say, me thinks I agree wit cha! I am going to disengage, detach. I just can’t help but lean on what Rori wrote: 1. if the guy isn’t married, he’s fair game, 2. the gf only means something if she means something to him, 3. if a guy comes towards you to talk, talk. I’ll play it by ear but I will take a few days to myself. Thanks again.

  10.  #10BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 8:39 am

    My other CD ^blew me off…

  11.  #11Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:52 am


    As long as you have peace with it πŸ™‚

  12.  #12Femininewoman on November 11, 2013 at 8:55 am

    BlueRedRose –

    2. the gf only means something if she means something to him.

    Maybe I would tell him he can’t have me all to himself if I can’t have him all to myself. He might be attracted to the gf because of drama. I find that type of drama that his gf is doing a turn off. He has to get to a place where it is turn-off enough for him to move on.

    I would definitely not initiate any contact and see what he does. Just be sure to let him know that you are looking for a relationship where there is peace and harmony and dealing with a gf is not part of your equation.

  13.  #13Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Blueredlove. He’s been caught with his trousers down. having his cake and eating it.
    You knew she didn’t.

    Only thing that’s changed is she now knows. Was just a matter of time. He will do his best to keep both of you as long as he is given that option.

    So my questions are, What do you want?

    Your options are hear her out her side?
    Wait and see what he says, bearing in mind he keeps secrets. And then tell him what you want now.
    Lean forward and ask.

    If it were me I’d listen to her too and see what he had told her.
    And listen to him.
    Reckon I find out a lot more if I listened carefully to her aswell.

    That’s just me though.

    What do you think is the best option for you?

  14.  #14Emerson on November 11, 2013 at 9:09 am

    Sirens I told cutecityCD I don’t feel comfortable with having casual sex and he said “ok”….
    I guess that is what he was looking for.
    I feel numb and a little sad but not too much.

    PreppyCD is in the picture as far as being in contact and I like him too. We are the same religion so I like that. He is slow to make plans though so I feel impatient sometimes.

  15.  #15BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Thanks for the help, Ladies.

    Femininewoman, that is actually verbatim what I told him last week before any of this happened. He wanted to see me one night and I told him I had a date. He was flabbergasted. I told him, “Well, you can’t have me all to yourself if I can’t have you all to myself.” I posted here about it.

    My comment opened up the doors to an amazing heart-to-heart about his intentions for me, his intention to end his relationship, blah, blah, blah. I guess none of that matters now. I am definitely learning to be still.

    Syreena, what I wantED was an opportunity to explore this with him, to see if we were headed in the same direction, same page, etc. I wantED to continue to get to know each other, NOT take the girlfriend’s place. What I am struggling with is how I could possibly do that under these conditions (ie. assuming they are still an item)? If they have broken up, none of this is really at issue. The problem is I am completely in the dark. I am having a hard time with not knowing. It’s not a matter of asking him to choose, what he wants or doesn’t want. It’s a matter of how can I explore my feelings, my pleasure, stay grounded, if he has chosen to continue “to have his cake and eat it too.”

    He told me that he “told her everything.” I don’t know if men do that if they intend to stay. I honestly have no clue.

    What I want now is to know what the deal is. Is he in or is he out of that other situation. If not, I have to bail.

  16.  #16Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 9:32 am

    It if were me I’d want to hear her out to see if he had told her everything.

    And if he told her after she presented her with the evidence of what she found. Or told her and then she hacked into the account.

  17.  #17Amazing Me on November 11, 2013 at 9:37 am

    hmmm.. I like to experiment. I will try that when I have a chance like that

    Will let you know what happens xx

  18.  #18BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Honestly, I don’t want to give any more energy to this situation. I got the full gist of what the gf/ex-gf wants to say to me in the scathing text message she sent. She doesn’t want to talk, she wants to curse me out, get under my skin and blame me. That’s fine. That’s her choice but it’s also my choice not to engage. She’s a girlfriend, not a wife. They’ve been together 2 years, not 20. I am not giving any more weight to their situation. If he chooses to, then again there is nothing left to figure out.

    At this point, everything is pure speculation until he calls me. He will call me, maybe not today or tomorrow, but he will call because he knows we will cross paths sooner rather than later and at the very least, he won’t want bad blood. Until then, I can sit and guess and try to figure out what happened between them, what his response was, what their status is all day, but that takes all of the focus off of me. Guess I’ll just date myself for awhile.

  19.  #19Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Are you wanting to be the new for now girlfriend?

    What do you want now?

  20.  #20Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Brava BlueRedLove.

    “Until then, I can sit and guess and try to figure out what happened between them, what his response was, what their status is all day, but that takes all of the focus off of me. Guess I’ll just date myself for awhile.”

    You have the right perspective.

  21.  #21Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 9:52 am

    What I truly found fascinating whilst I was reading Nina Brown’s writing about narcissists, is the revelation I had that narcissists have come into my life for me to heal. And I have healed in beautiful and remarkable ways, even though it has been very, very painful many times. They have come into my life to show me things about myself and to catalyse change.

    D showed me things about myself in the most painful way, but it made me look at them nonetheless. I am awed when I think of the journey of love I have taken, not necessarily towards the perfect relationship, but towards discovering, changing, healing. I look at things about myself that I would not otherwise have known, ineffective ways of handling things, areas of growth, my likes, my desires, what I can tolerate, what I can’t. How all of it can change and how I can evolve. Wow.

  22.  #22BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Syreena, Ugh. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear before. No, I don’t want to be the new girlfriend or the for now girlfriend.

    I truly don’t believe in girlfriends. If I told you how much of a die-hard, Rori devotee I was, you would probably think I was crazy. I am 39 years old. I have had a zillion and 1 “boyfriends” and no husband. One does not lead to the other.

    All I know is that every time I am with him, I feel amazing, loved, completely accepted, understood and heard. Even on Saturday, in the midst of the mess, I felt happy and light and didn’t give a rat’s ass about the girlfriend.

    All I wanted was the space to explore it. For three months it’s been damn near perfect, but are we even on the same page. Does he want marriage, kids etc.? Do I want those things with him? I have no idea. This is only 3 months old.

    Damn, I just wanted the chance to find out.

  23.  #23BlueRedLove on November 11, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Thanks, Indigo and Syreena for chiming in. I would love to hear from Dominique or Rori. Ultimately, there’s nothing to figure out. I’ll just have to see what if anything he does. If he does nothing, then is is a punk and is not at all the man I thought he was.

    In the meantime, maybe I need to “go fish” on POF and match to stay sane. Lol. Have a great day, Ladies.

  24.  #24Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Ah wasn’t sure if you were meaning that you were still not wanting to be a girlfriend. Thanks understand now.

    Good luck with your continuing finding out.

  25.  #25April Rose on November 11, 2013 at 10:13 am


    I feel very curious. Can you say anything more specific about how these men have helped you to heal?
    Love, April

  26.  #26April Rose on November 11, 2013 at 10:17 am

    I feel super-curious,
    because I think WM might be one of those people. Self-absorbed.
    When I accept him as he is and give less importance to my need for him to come towards me, guess what? yep, he comes towards me!
    Is this a trait of self-absorbed people? It’s kind of frustrating.

  27.  #27Miss Bells on November 11, 2013 at 10:52 am

    HS often BAITS me to argue politics with him. I am very political and in a very public way. But, nowadays, I just say “I don’t want to talk about that right now” and change the subject.

    It is hardest when he gets on the national debt. He is a deficit hawk and doesn’t understand how the government’s economy works. But I will NOT argue with him or try to explain it. It just doesn’t work.

    3 years ago it would be ON every time we watched the news. Thanks Rori!

  28.  #28Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 11:16 am

    I don’t understand how it would be possible to be in life lonf partnership with someone who had different core beliefs om political values.

  29.  #29Cris on November 11, 2013 at 11:53 am

    I have no experience in on-line dating… but a “marvelous” man would never attract me…and by reading this blog I feel “normal” men have a lot to offer πŸ™‚

  30.  #30Amazed on November 11, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Would it be leaning forward to say:
    I feel disconnected, I want a relationship where communication is one of the top priorities, what do you think?
    I feel disconnected/undesired, I want a relationship that has physical intimacy, what do you think?
    Any better way to put those thoughts into words sirens? Thanks πŸ™‚

  31.  #31Miss Bells on November 11, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Syreena–He is a good guy, and our basic values mesh. It is just that he was raised by old school Republicans and carries some of that.

  32.  #32Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    how does it work when it comes to making joint decisions that will inevitablly occur and effect both your lives if two people decide to share their lives together if two peope have fundemental different core political or religous beliefs?

    How does not talking about it work? I can understand not argueing.But not understand not talking about it. If you don’t want to talk about it now, then when? After you are married and a decision is needed that will effect both your lives?

    Is not talking, evading and ignoring the issue?

  33.  #33Miss Bells on November 11, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    We are both in late middle age and may never marry. It is different when you are old.
    Lifestyle differences mess things up more than political differences.
    And there are lots of things I never need to talk about. My own personal stuff. It is kind of like keeping your beauty routine behind closed doors. I don’t need to share everything, except maybe on my cell company plan.
    The decisions that affect a couple after 55 are very different from young couples. Even where to live isn’t that big a deal. I can afford to live in two places, and am thinking of buying a piece of land 1200 miles away because I WANT to. He can come along if he wants to.

  34.  #34Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    In the O thread, I would feel ok saying that I felt turned off by what I heard. And would want to clarify what made me feel bad or turned off about it. And then go and take care of my own feelings about being turned off. Process and decide how much it mattered.
    And have said that to men.

    The other part I would not feel so good about ” You’re so handsome and smart I am sure you can find a way to turn me on instead.

    To me that would be like giving the message that I didn’t want to hear that. Where actually I would rather here it and them be honest. And they make take it that I mean to either not tell me their true thoughts in the future, or do something physical or something ‘nice’ to try and turn me on.

    Neither of which would really deal with the problem of repulsion over that issue.
    The only thing that would work with that would be if they had a change of heart and there’s and mine views were now more in synch.

    As deciding to not say something again because they now knew I felt repulsed or turned off but knowing that they were still saying and thinking those things to others would mean they were not being their real selves with me. Reminds me what men used to do not say certain things infront of women, but say it to their male buddies behind their backs.

    Sometimes this can be seen the other way around too where they pretend to their peers in the moment to fit in and don’t want to really be themselves.

    An example for me for instance would be what they thought about going to lap dancing clubs.
    If they said something like I love getting a lap dance of a hot looking girl with my mates.
    I would be repulsed.
    It wouldn’t work for me if they then just didn’t mention that again as to appease my feelings. A case of oh I’ve learned not to say things that turn her off and keep my thoughts to myself. But still went and got one now and again.
    I would actually need them to not want to and not love that any more. An actual change in their desire and perception to have occured. To have emotionally and consciously matured to a higher level.
    That is not going to happen just because I say I feel turned off.
    I would want us to be on the same page and for them to also be turned off.
    That is not going to happen by me just saying something. Telling people doesn’t make aha moments and new connections in the brain occur.
    That most likley would only ever occur if they stopped viewing women as objects after seeing, experiencing and hearing the reality in real life from the real girls behind the scenes first hand.
    If they went and saw them getting drunk or using before so they get in a zoned out state to do it. Or hearing women laughing about these men who were paying money to see them pretend they fancied them etc. Or saying how much they didn’t really like men.

  35.  #35Syreena on November 11, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Hear what you mean Miss Bells.

  36.  #36Elayne on November 11, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Rori, it’s good to know you can “fix him” if you want to. I’ve heard that message in other posts you’ve written.

    I don’t want to fix anyone. Perhaps he doesn’t really want anyone in his life. It’s been my experience that men place blame externally for the things they should address within themselves. So if something is wrong, it’s not his fault — it must be the woman he’s dating. Replace her, and the problem is fixed, right? So he finds someone else, pretends like he’s over his issues, and hurts another woman.

    In writing this, I know I sound angry. I just realized HOW angry (hurt) I am about this.

    Why can’t men take care of their own sh*t?

    So we should help them through their stuff? In case he’s a sweet, attractive man under all his anger and frustration?

    This makes no sense to me.

  37.  #37April Rose on November 11, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    I still stand by the ancient vedic system that lets you know a man’s capacity to fully partner in a relationship.(And therefore whether he is a damaged sweetie that can be healed in your feminine presence, or not).

    I am studying this in depth at the moment, with a view to offering it as a service.

  38.  #38Dominique on November 11, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    BlueRedLove – Let him go. If he’s doing this to another, chances are good that he will do this to you too. This just doesn’t feel good to me at all. I’m sorry.

    Right now though it’s not even an issue. It seems as though he’s poofed. I would encourage you to NOT make any contact at all.


  39.  #39Dominique on November 11, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    And RedBlueLove – If you are having difficulty with the residual emotions, try meditating on them or doing a sleeping meditation on them. I give this to some of the women I work with to help them gain clarity on their situation as well as work through emotions. Let me know if you want to know how to do this.


  40.  #40Dominique on November 11, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Amazed – 29 –

    “I feel disconnected, I want a relationship where communication is one of the top priorities, what do you think?
    I feel disconnected/undesired, I want a relationship that has physical intimacy, what do you think?”

    How about – I feel disconnected. (wait for a response or a query) I feel off/uncomfortable/disconnected/choose one or more or any other adjective which applies without open communication.

    He may ask what this means to you, so be prepared with an answer. You may want to explore this here first.

    I love physical intimacy. It makes me feel so desired and desirable, so good in so many ways. I miss this.


  41.  #41angela on November 11, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Awesome post !

  42.  #42Luzydel on November 11, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    I do not like this post; I am not responsible to “fix” any man. All I can do is accept him. Be mindful that accepting doesn’t always mean staying with him and take his crap; just accepting him for who he is and let him be and take care of me and let him know that his behavior doesn’t feel good.

    To me this is an advise for “desperate” women who would take anything just to be with a man and telling them deep inside there is a “good” man…. Yuck! Yuck!
    A man can be a “good” man, but that doesn’t mean he can have a good relationship with you. This is a mediocre way of dating; yeah he is “good” so stick around even if you’re miserable or not feeling 100% satisfied because; he can be “fixed”. Yeah I can give a man a chance and be mindful that he may be nervous on the first date, but that’s about it; the rest is on him to fix himself if he wants to. It is not my JOB!

  43.  #43Linda G on November 11, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    I’m not sure “fix” means change his character. In this context, the word “fix” really implies forgiving his awkwardness, adjusting the way he presents himself just by being forgiving towards his nervousness or cluelessness, not a man’s cruelty or aggressiveness

  44.  #44LoveAlways on November 11, 2013 at 8:15 pm


    My experience and my opinion is that if he wanted to be with just you, he would. What he wants is to be with you and his gf and his ex-gf. And his silence means that this is not your time – it is another woman’s time with him. Circular date and experience the attention of a man who wants to be with you and only you before you make any more decisions or contact with this guy. His silence speaks volumes.

  45.  #45LoveAlways on November 11, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Rori Says: β€œDo I believe I can’t impact a man in even the smallest way?”

    Yes, I can impact a man, but it can only happen if he reaches out to me. That is what is missing here. He can fix himself without me having to do anything but be me and be there responding honestly.

  46.  #46Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    April Rose 24,

    It is in seeing how I respond to them. That revealed so much to me about myself.

    When I was in a situation where I was deeply invested, so up-and-leaving wasn’t an option, and how did I handle a person and situation which was deeply triggering me to the point that I felt I couldn’t handle it. What did I do, and what other options did I explore to handle the situation differently next time? What did that show me about myself?

    For example, when D would get upset over a small thing and fly off into a stomping around, angry mood, my overwhelming urge was to fix things. That showed me an enormous amount about myself. That I couldn’t just disengage/walk away and allow another adult to take care of their feelings, I wanted to help/fix things/make it better/take responsibility. And in realizing this about myself, I realized I was laying myself open to tremendous disappointment, hurt, manipulation by others, what have you.

    I am not past this aspect of myself, or over it or healed by a long shot, but just realizing it recently was very valuable to me. As well as better ways of handling such a situation in future (as I say, I’m not quite there yet). And this is just one example of many things I learned. I also learned what I loved, what made me content and comfortable (why did I stay with D in the first place?).

    Love to you xx

  47.  #47Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    April Rose, this is an excellent series of articles about narcissists/self-absorbed people:


  48.  #48Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    And these are some even more excellent articles by Nina Brown on ways of handling/coping if you are in a relationship with such a person:


  49.  #49Indigo on November 11, 2013 at 8:45 pm


    I don’t usually like labels, but there is some extremely helpful information in these.

    And yes, as you say, acceptance of that person and not expecting them to change is the most important thing. xx

  50.  #50Emerson on November 11, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    This is such a great article and I agree lots of men write horrible profiles. Maybe I should not pass them up but it’s such a turn off I have a hard time turning it around ..if I meet them and it continues it’s even worse…
    Especially if they are lazy (wont drive to me or plan a date) or not generous (not payin g the dinner)

    I don’t want to fix anyone: feels tiring to think about

  51.  #51redbutterfly on November 12, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Indigo, I loved what you said about being a fixer. I am one also. My whole marriage disintigrated because my exhusband was an extremely angry man and would fly off the handle constantly and I would try to make things better, fix the problem, fix his mood and if I couldn’t do that I would go into full-on “fix”the house by cleaning mode! I also thought this made me a good person and a good wife. I thought that because I was so long suffering and patient and tried to take care of every little thing, that this made me a great partner. Eventually after 10 years I couldn’t stand the anger that was directed at me or my daughter anymore and I left.
    Now that I am in a stable, adult relationship I realize that 1. I never want to ever, ever, ever take on what I call a “project man” again (screw the healing!) and 2. that I should have let him come to terms with his own feelings himself without trying to fix everything and thinking that everything was my fault. There are a million ways I could have handle him differently and I wish I would have because I didn’t want to get divorced but I am in a much better place now.
    Sometimes I think that the way I do things is the only way because I know what I am doing and then you have a light bulb like the one I had after reading Indigo’s post and it is very humbling. But I guess that is what makes us grow and learn as humans.

  52.  #52redbutterfly on November 12, 2013 at 9:07 am

    I am not trying to say that you should completely write a guy off because of something stupid he said or because his profile is dumb like Rori’s example, it’s more of the big character flaws that bother me. You can fix those outside social things but you can’t usually fix insecurity, constant anger, depression, ocd. Or maybe you can with a lot of work and time but those major things are just too much for me at this time in my life (I’m 40) and I have no patience for them. Been there, done that and never want to do it again! Makes me feel like a caretaker or a mother and I want someone to take care of me instead.

  53.  #53Indigo on November 12, 2013 at 9:29 am


    I so know what you mean. And what you say about not realizing that there were a million different ways you could have handled it until much later… For me that is the painful part. You don’t realize that you’re going into “fix” mode.

    For me, I grew up with an extremely angry mother, who would fly into a full-on, terrifying rage over things like lost keys, and you grow up believing that you can somehow placate the person’s anger or prevent it from happening in future. So it was not at all surprising when D exhibited the signs of going into an angry mood that I would believe I could “help” or fix or make things better. This of course only makes it worse. As does falling into a “hurt” or “shame” mode.

    I am so glad you are in a proper mature relationship now. For me I think I have a way to go in my own healing… for example I am not at the place yet where I can disengage in the required way from someone who is behaving like that. I am further than I was though πŸ™‚

  54.  #54Indigo on November 12, 2013 at 9:33 am

    And yes, redbutterfly, I agree with you… there is a world of difference between a guy who simply has a bad profile, or is awkward or has a few defences, and someone who triggers or gets triggered in more deep-seated ways.

  55.  #55Daria on November 12, 2013 at 9:33 am

    sooo ….


    i went to see that guy who lives with that girl to have sex (bookieman)

    and whoa

    somehow midway

    smthn happened i think where i realized i iddn’t feel loved and safe like before

    and he couldnt get hard

    for like 2 hours

    i didnt care really

    but the after effects of it wher he said bye all casually felt off

    like so off to where i feel unattracted to him

    now i wanted to stop obdsessing

    but feeling unattracted i did not expeect

    i like, dont feel like moving an inch towards him

    i dont feel that all enompassing love and safety i used to feel when imagining him, and seeing his face smiling and leanign in towards me

    —im thinking this could have been prevented with me speaking up in the moment, that i felt disconnected

    however, now i feel this way

    i used to ‘know’ he loves me

    and that was attractive to me

    now i don’t feel like he does. and that feels like a big turn off,

    to where thinking about him doesn not hace an effect on me

    im just focused on getting out there until another man makes me feel loved and sure of his love

    this was such a strange shift. i guess this was in a way what i wanted, to not feel all into him, yet i didnt expect to feel this Not into him

  56.  #56redbutterfly on November 12, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Indigo, that is so weird how similiar our stories are. I grew up with a bipolar step father who was probably a manic depressive person and he used to beat all of us kids up constantly. I have done a lot of work to forgive him and don’t think I have issues anymore but every once in awhile (ok, a lot!) I would notice with my exhusband the “walking on eggshells” feelings that I used to have with my stepfather. I never really put those two together but I guess if I am being honest… that I grew up with it, was used to it and was still in fixing mode. Leaving my husband was the hardest, the easiest and the best thing I ever did for myself. I hope your healing continues and you eventually find the love of your life. Hugs!!!

  57.  #57Daria on November 12, 2013 at 9:47 am

    its like with Hawkman who i don’t give an eff about much, just kinda annoys ne that he couldnt step up

    just like wiht a guy where ur rolling your eyes thinking i cant wait to get out their presence, this person doesn’t get me and it feels annoying

    its like i see someone diff than what i saw before, which was a man who sincerely loved me

    and maybe its all the not holding my boundaries and treating myself well that got him to drop his attraction to where he comes off as not loving me anymore…

    it certainly looks like so much chasing its weird for such a pretty girl… IF… theres no sense of unconditional safety and love

    so now we’re here, where no more chasing is gonna happen. maybe this is my internal boundaries kicking in effortlessly

    im only attracted to men who are really Into me and i can feel it

    def wouldnt be chasing, bec i feel like looking the other way

    i wonder if he’ll ever ‘recover’ from this

    i have some exes, like hawkman, who i see so diff now that i don’t really ‘feel it’ for them

    doesnt trigger my intrinsic respect

    i still allow men like that to take me out if they do though, maybe it could grow

    is there more of a message?

    like it was good for me to feel that trusting and open /// maybe thats something i want to feel?

    yeah these exes, even if they gave me head, id feel like yeah whatever…

    thats great what else is there to think about ?

    i think Rori would be like give these guys a chance

    i guess i would, i just dont feel particularly excited…

    with them it might be easier to speak when i feel disconnected tho. and say no to any energy shift that is going from me-focused receiving to him-focused during sex

    which is what i felt uncomfortable speaking up here. stuffed the minor thing and voila!

    he couldnt get it up

    piking up on my energy

    and i couldnt get it up ,… enough interest to Care or see this anything diff than a guy looking to selfishly get great sex from a Goddess

    and my view of him shifted and it was afterwards that i really felt the difference from him

    well the difference in treatment

    so this is not a guy who wants to focus on me during sex either… right now

    and my interest for him has dropped

    as my interest is in learning and experienced fully me-focused sex

    not ‘exchanges’

    not even ‘thrills’

    just this special Goddess worship practice

    and maybe he innerly resents me

    and we’re having a ‘power struggle’

    thats what it feels like right now

    he’s resisting my me -focused requirements

    and now im fully turned away

    thank u inner boundaries

    now he will likely come chasing me or testing my boundaries more

    and im gonna be mroe distant…

    lol i wonder what will happen

    i know with Getright, right now, i have little motivation to hang out with him, bec it feels like ill just feel annoyed, and wont get what i want (me-focused sex/romance) to the degree i want anyway

    so i find myself keeping away and not really returning his calls

  58.  #58April Rose on November 12, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Thank you April for buying me a water filter jug.
    The water tastes delicious and feels good to swallow.

  59.  #59Daria on November 12, 2013 at 10:28 am

    so excited to meet new men

    i feel shaky trembly scared that they won’t have this quality of ‘kindness’

    if even that one guy who i thought had it doesn’t always have it


    i feel very suspicious of men

    i feel ‘on hold’ as far as being touched until i feel sure my nani is healed and i wont be getting a bladder infection

  60.  #60Daria on November 12, 2013 at 10:28 am

    i feel sad thinking of having a hard time meeting men who are down to worship me sexually

    i feel excited thinking about meeting men period

  61.  #61Veronica on November 12, 2013 at 10:34 am

    A man asked me to take him out. It was a casual suggestion but I flipped it around in a cheeky fun way and he suggested a place, asked when we could meet. It was such an effortless turnaround and so quickly too. This has been surprising. Having zero investment in a man is making it easier for me to stand by what’s good for me.

  62.  #62April Rose on November 12, 2013 at 11:03 am


    I’m seeing how I respond to the self-absorbed behaviour, too.
    He is so brief in his attentions, and hugs. For just a matter of seconds he will look me in the eye and talk with me or give me a hug before returning to his activities or, more usually, his thoughts.
    It makes me angry. It makes me feel weirdly bereft of his presence, although he is still in the room.

  63.  #63Andrea on November 12, 2013 at 11:09 am

    This is a good article. So timely. I met Dennis a while ago. We exchanged numbers. He called a few days later and asked me out. I couldn’t go that week but invited him to a wine tasting event that I do.
    He showed up. Nervous. Sweet. Bad haircut. And seemed very intimidated by wine.
    But he plucked through it and offered comments and ordered a few bottles and stayed to help me clean up.
    Very sweet.
    This week he called again. Three times before he could get through to me since I’ve been very busy. But he’s persisted. He asked me out and we are going to dinner and to sing karoake on Friday night.

    But then he made a huge mistake in my book. He asked me, “So, what do you think about us? I’m tired of spending time and energy on women who consider me as only a friend.”

    In the past, I believe I would have been turned off and just given up on him. I don’t know this guy yet. I can’t judge how I’ll feel him for down the road. I don’t have any initial attraction, but for me, attraction grows by how well I’m treated by a man. Anyway… all that stuff… I felt like going into frustrated explanation mode.

    But instead, this article made me realize that he’s prone to make mistakes. He’s nervous. His heart has been pounded on a few times, I’m sure. I said,
    “I feel curious about you. I felt sweet and supported when you came to my wine tasting event and even ordered bottles from me. I feel ready to explore more.”

    He seemed very happy with that and he relaxed. Moment by moment…..

  64.  #64Dominique on November 12, 2013 at 11:22 am

    redbutterfly – It really isn’t your job to fix anyone. you can really only work on yourself, and if through this someone else feels inspired to work on self as well or heals through you, fabulous.

    I think to truly make it work out well between two people, even if damaged which most of us are to some extent, there has to be something strong, something bonding, and I don’t mean chemistry.
    I mean something deeper than this.

    You need to like each other as individuals of course.

    And what the something is could be different for every couple. Examples are shared values, shared interests, a connection of some sort, emotional, spiritual, soulful, something else.

    And I think both need to want to continue to keep growing, learning, and wanting to be the best self they can. Couples like this can heal in each others presence.


  65.  #65Shar Lean Way Back on November 12, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Dominique , LIKE button 62 πŸ™‚

  66.  #66Indigo on November 12, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    April Rose,

    Your man sounds self-absorbed, although you would know better than I.

    As the articles say, there are better ways of handling such people, but you have to really want to. For me, where I am in my journey, it was just asking a little bit too much.

    I know what you mean about the briefest of hugs and kisses. D used to do that too. That’s how I could tell what stage of “openness” he was to me. On the occasional times when he was open was when he would hold me for longer, kiss me more lingeringly… but this came to be extremely occasional. Everything was always on his terms. And I believe with a self-absorbed person, this is what life is like, and you cannot expect any more from them.

    Like Dominique is always saying, you have to decide whether you want them even if nothing changes.


  67.  #67April Rose on November 12, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    My situation feels like a test.
    I mean, the pressure feels overwhelming. My every fibre cries out ” I want more. I need more than this!”
    And yet, I stay. In a kind of limbo state.
    I would say that I’m just past the point where I used to dream of things improving.
    I’m looking at it face-on now, for what it is.

    I am bonded in the relationship in some energetic way I can’t explain.

    And yet I am more and more insistent with myself that I stay in feminine energy and feel things through.

  68.  #68Dominique on November 12, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    April Rose – If you’re going to leave, you will when YOU are ready. That you are still there tells me there’s more for you to learn and heal from.

    The more you reside in your feminine core, the more clarity will you gain.

    Love to you.


  69.  #69April Rose on November 12, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    That’s beautiful, Dominique,

    And my experience resonates like a crystal bell, with what you say.
    “The more you reside in your feminine core, the more clarity will you gain.”

    Thank you. I feel deeply soothed by your words and your warmth.

  70.  #70MarΓ­a on November 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Hello! I have recently bought your book cause i fell in love with a boy like I never did before. I get divorced one year ago and very soon I met this man. He said he loved me and that I was special, that I wasn’t like other girls, etc.. I have been dating him for a few months but he still don’t know how to say when he introduce me to his friends, he just say my name. I have pressure him a bit telling him that I get that i am free cause he hasn’t claimed as her girlfriend. He got very upset when I told this to him and he said he was planning a future with me and he wanted to introduce me his parents the next time we meet. But the days are passing away and he isn’t arrangement another date with me to introduce me his parents etc…and I feel very sad cause I am trying to resist, expressing my feeling in a soft way, but I really want to see him again. How can I tell him how much I am missing him and how I wish to see him again? or maybe my problem is that i shouldn’t miss him so much. I am very lost.

  71.  #71Syreena on November 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Andrea, how about something along the lines it feels best to me
    to date men over several months giving us both time to get to know each slowly other and see what naturally develops or not before both deciding if we feel on the same page about future romance or freiendship?

    Or weeks or other words that feel more authentic to you

  72.  #72blue rose on November 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    #3 BlueRedLove

    thanks for posting. It is super helpful to read how you are dealing with a vanishing man. My circumstance is different, but my guy vanished. He replies when I write, but not on his own. So it sucks.

    hugs to you. I hope this works out for both of us.

  73.  #73laura on November 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    my question is everytime I Doa search on my boyfriends phone number this site pops upeach and everytime. I have been with him for 4 years in a long didtance relationship. there are comments in here that really make me wonder who wrote it and why?

  74.  #74Indigo on November 12, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    April Rose,

    “My every fibre cries out ” I want more. I need more than this!”
    And yet, I stay. In a kind of limbo state.
    I would say that I’m just past the point where I used to dream of things improving.
    I’m looking at it face-on now, for what it is.

    I am bonded in the relationship in some energetic way I can’t explain.”

    That is exactly how I felt for more than 2 years. And I would be the last person on earth to tell someone they need to leave because I don’t believe in that… I don’t believe it can come from external sources.

    For so long I stayed, aching, longing, so upset that I used to cry almost every day, yet completely bonded and plugged in to the relationship. He was more than my boyfriend or lover, he was my family, my home.

    As Dominique said, if you are still there, it means you have more to learn, more to grow, more to heal, and this can be a comforting prospect. Healing feels so good when it comes.

    I can really see how handling a person like this – self-absorbed, angry, strong-willed – has been a definite theme in my life. I am not at the end of this journey yet, it just feels very important for me to stay in this place and learn some more.

  75.  #75Indigo on November 12, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    redbutterfly 54,

    Yes, so similar. I also had that “walking on eggshells” feeling for much of my childhood, and I only realized yesterday while I was out walking how often I felt that way with D. That trying so hard to make that person happy and watch what you say so you don’t set them off… which of course never works, and makes you feel horrible.

    Thank you for the hugs and the good wishes xx

  76.  #76Emerson on November 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Soft on the outside…strong on the inside…

  77.  #77Karen on November 13, 2013 at 2:49 am

    I’m so sorry for posting this here but how do I ask a question about my own situation? I can’t find an article for the situation I’m in but there’s so much amazing advice on this site, I really want to get some.

  78.  #78Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 3:23 am

    Hi all,

    Its been a long time. Grab your popcorn and a blanket and snuggle in – its story time. πŸ™‚

    I am officially divorced.

    That was huge for me, and about 8 years in the making. So that felt overwhelming, sad, and good all at once. We held hands afterwards in the courtroom and laughed. Not many people can do that.

    On to other news.

    If you remember, GS and I had split, and he came back on my doorstep (literally) two months ago. I was already with CollegeCD, and so after discernment, I decided on CollegeCD. He was in front of me, treating me well. There were many hours and hours and hours of conversations with GS, and many tears on his behalf and mine, but I stuck by my decision to stay with CollegeCD, and give him a fair chance.

    So to recap, I have now officially dated CollegeCD 4 months, and GS was on my doorstep 2 months ago.

    CollegeCD and I took a trip to Texas exactly one month ago. I started to notice that he gets overwhelmed easily. He is VERY EMOTIONALLY available, well, at least I thought he was. We went on our trip to see my friends, and he IS FUN. So so so so so fun! But I started to see cracks. He is a bit condescending in terms of emotional issues – he thinks that he knows how to handle issues and children, and friends, and speaks to me in a way that is a bit paternalistic regarding these issues, but I thought – well, maybe its just how I’m reading it. Also, we had a bit of a disagreement in Texas, and we sat for two hours and hashed it out – and I thought – ok, good! We can do this!

    When we returned from Texas, the first 5 days he had his kids, and the next 5 he was deathly sick. But during those 10 days, I felt a slow fade from him We met for lunch and I told him how that made me feel, and we reconnected and I got excited that I had actually waited and was patient and things were ok! Things were good for about a week, and then I went to my first divorce hearing. He wasnt as emotionally availble for me and I was so nervous But I thought – ok, thats ok, I’m doing this myself, etc.

    Then, we had a very big fight about the future, which he brought up etc and basically said he was unwilling to compromise about where we would live, about God, about annulments in marriage, about letting my children still go to Catholic school (money and religion issue) and about perhaps having kids…..uhhh….wow. Ok – I’m not saying I need everything my way, but I am the PRIZE. LET ME REPEAT. I AM THE PRIZE. So, I’m not going to be with ANYONE who doesnt think my opinion is important. So, it ended up that we got through that too…..but it was rough.

    So then I had my divorce, last thursday. He was sort of supportive during the process, but not that much, and seemed excited afterwards. But then, because he nervous about some possible (again, only POSSIBLE) layoffs at work, he didnt see me last Thursday. Or Friday (even though he did not have his kids!!!!) Or Sat. Or Sun. Or Monday. Or Today. Today, apparently he was cleaning out his kids closets with his ex-wife. (they are very close and I’m cool with that…..but again, I got divorced last Thursday and still havent seen him, and he is cleaning out closets with his ex-wife?)

    And I told him on Sat that it would have felt good to see him last night (Friday) and that it would have felt nice to connect after my divorce, etc. He agreed, and said that the whole work thing is freaking him out (again, he gets OVERWHELMED easily.)

    So…..there is that.

    Chapter 2.

    GS has stepped it up. And I mean STEPPED. IT. UP. He has been amazing. He KNEW that I chose CollegeCD. But he is still right there. He has been emotionally available for me during the whole divorce. Basically every day for two months, I have told him for 1 to 3 hours each day why I am NOT EVER going to be with him. LOL. I’ve told him why he hurt me, what I didnt like, why I didnt like it, etc. The man has taken a beating by me, over and over. He just calmly takes it – and says I’m right. He says that something happened in those two months that we were apart and that something clicked with him that never clicked before. That he has never truly been in love with anyone. That he now craves relationships – not only with me, but friendships, with family. He and I have talked about very emotionally deep things, and I am floored and amazed.

    This is NOT a man who is just saying these things to get me back. He just isnt and I know him and I know that. He didnt think he was going to get me back and he is just SHOWING me how he has changed.

    For the record, he and his ex no longer live together. He and her have a joint custody arrangement with the children. Its over. And she has been out for about a month now.

    He wants to marry me, maybe try to have a baby with me if its what I want. Go to church with me. He wants to build a life and a family together. He used to be so guarded with everything – money, personal information – now its just all out there. He has told me things about his money, and his life that I never thought I would know.

    This man is ready to drop to a knee tomorrow and buy me a house etc.

    So things have again changed for me.

    I am at a crossroad again.

    But get this. I’m LOVING LIFE. I love me. I am so calm about all of this. I am the prize. I dont know what I choose, but in the end….I CHOOSE ME. πŸ™‚ I have never truly in my heart felt that way, but I do now.

    After CollegeCd texted me that he was cleaning the closets, I didnt text back. We didnt even say good night tonight by text. That is the first time ever in 4 months. I am not sure how to proceed.

    I’m interested in your thoughts. Should I continue to try to give CollegeCD a chance? Or should I go ahead and give GS another chance?

    I think I know my answer, but I’m interested to hear your opinions.

    I can not circular date both of them. I have already done that – CollegeCD actually came up with the idea, and said for me to date GS and figure out what I wanted. I did that right when GS came back and said – no, I want to be with you CollegeCD. So I cant really go back on that now.

    Officially, CollegeCD and I are boyfriend/girlfriend and completely exclusive. I will admit I should not have been having these kinds of emotional conversations with GS – that was probably unfair and not right to do. I will completely admit that. But it happened and here I am with this situation now.

    Finally, if CollegeCD could go back to being the way he was in the very beginning, then I might keep giving him a chance and stay with him. His kids and my kids would get along – I know it. We have not introduced them yet. We would have fun in life as a family. I’m just not sure that my opinion would matter as much if it was in disagreement with his.

    GS is a tougher road, because even though I now believe that this man loves me, his children are more emotionally distant, and of course there is his ex- WHO WE BOTH WORK WITH, and is a bit of a loon. She is seriously crazy and might make things hard on me, him, the kids? Who knows. Maybe not, but thats part of the equation so I’m throwing it out there.

    I remember thinking so many times with CollegeCD – “Please let this be my life” at the beginning of our realtionship. And now, it feels so different. I would love to have that back with him, but I’m also ok if it doesnt happen, because at least I found out now that he is unable to sustain that level of emotion.

    So – thoughts? opinions? Whew – sorry – that was a lot πŸ™‚

  79.  #79Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 3:35 am

    Ok – for the record, I feel nervous writing all of that, and already defensive. LOL. I feel like I will have to defend my decisions – huh, I have no idea why I feel that way. Weird. You girls have always been understanding and supportive, so I have no idea why I already feel defensive.

    Maybe because its been so long since I’ve written and I feel like there are so many things that have happened, and different stories, and feelings and I couldnt really get them all out, so I feel like I will have to clarify, etc.

    Anyway – I realized as I finished writing that, that I miss CollegeCD – the way he was in the beginning – the way he used to be. The way I felt around him at the beginning was amazing. He was so generous with words of affirmation and quality time. I miss all of that.

    And in the same breath, I feel so connected to GS now. Its a deeper feeling because GS has years and years in. Time in, he knows me.

    I miss the complete overwhelming love I felt at the first two months with CollegeCD.

    Anyway – I’m rambling now, but I just wanted to continue my thoughts since I have insomnia and cant sleep.

    Maybe I should have texted College CD back, but I felt so hurt that he would rather clean a closet than come visit me, that I didnt know what to say. Especially in the week that I got divorced and havent seen him, AND I’ve told him that it was important for me to see him.

    Ok – going to try to get an hour of sleep before work.

    Thanks everyone for enduring my long posts πŸ™‚

  80.  #80Epiphyllum on November 13, 2013 at 3:47 am

    Hi Elsie – 73

    Hope you’ll find this information helpful to you in making your choice! Look into which man is more compatible to you in real life!

    Dating Coach Evan Marc Katz on Chemistry Vs. Compatibility


  81.  #81Cris on November 13, 2013 at 4:21 am

    Dear @Elsie

    first of all, thanks for sharing your story… it is so thrilling and lovely and interesting that I feel all I can say is not enough and I am not the one who can advice.
    Anyway, here are some thoughts:
    2) 4 months with College CD are not many…
    3) …. maybe none of them

    PD: congratulations for living your life and loving it!
    all the best and xoxoxo

  82.  #82Dominique on November 13, 2013 at 5:36 am

    Elsie – You sound SO good, amazing really. I feel in awe and inspired at how you’ve grown, transformed really since I’ve known you. So YAY YOU!!!

    I think you have found yourself in a wonderful position. No one can choose for you which you know. And you don’t have to choose right now. Sleep on this; meditate on it; see who does what and what feels best to you. Your answers will come to you. Trust in YOU.


  83.  #83Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 7:06 am

    Epiphyllium – Thank you for the link. I think that there is chemistry with CollegeCd and there is a history since we knew each other in college 25 years ago. But there is connection with GS.

    Cris – Thank you!!! The perfect man does not exist that is for sure! πŸ™‚ And thank you – I am living my life AND loving it! πŸ™‚ haha!

    Dominique – I LOVE YOU! πŸ™‚ Thank you – and I have to say that I feel totally different than a year and a half ago when I started this journey. Some of my friends on are on Team CollegeCD and some are on Team GS. I’m on Team ME!! haha. Thank you for saying you are inspired by me – wow, I’m super humbled by that. YOU have been one of my biggest inspriations – seriously. I am in a good position – but its hard as well. Its frustrating. And its funny that you say taht I dont have to choose right now because I was just telling my friend that last week that I dont have to do anything right now at all!!! I am totally praying about it – I want to do what G0D wants me to do, and what is the best for me and my children – not just what I feel in this moment is the best. I dont ever want to go through a divorce again.

    I feel so strange being divorced now – It all feels so weird and good and new and strange and scary and awesome and sad. πŸ™‚ LOL! I’m all over the place! πŸ™‚

    Also – as another note…

    CollegeCd always texts me in the morning “Good morning baby or sunshine, etc.” I got nothing this morning. He is PUNISHING me for not texting him back last night. I”m sorry but I have been soooo accomodating the last two weeks while he is worried about work (and by the way there is nothing for him to worry about – his job is safe) and while I was getting divorced. And, I havent even SEEN him since I’ve been divorced, and I forgot to mention, that even though he didnt have his kids on Friday, and we had talked about him coming out to see me, that I called him twice, (the ONLY time I’ve EVER done that) and he didnt answer either time. He then texted me “I’m fine, watching a movie.” Uhhh….ok, what if IM NOT FINE? I JUST GOT DIVORCED YESTERDAY, but I was still kind and said to have a good night and that I’m here for him. Then on Sat……after he texted me I called him, (again this is only the third time in our whole relationship I’ve done that) and I told him that I would like to spend time with him. Etc. So, I”m sorry that now cleaning out your kids closets with your ex wife is more important than seeing me. Please. Weird, right?

  84.  #84Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 7:08 am

    Just saw this on the Daily Love.

    “When the well’s dry, we know the worth of water.”

    – Benjamin Franklin

    Amen. GS knows now. CollegeCd is about to find out the worth of THIS water. πŸ™‚

  85.  #85T-Girl on November 13, 2013 at 7:12 am

    Elsie, Johnathon Aslay says there are 5 stages of a relationship: forming, warming, storming, transforming and norm ing. Many call it quits during the storming stage. I guess it all depends on how you work through that together. I sure remember when J and I were in that stage and were able to work together that we have successfully made it to the norming stage.

  86.  #86Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 7:48 am

    T-Girl – Oh I love this and had never heard of it. I think the forming and warming happened way too fast with CollegeCD – and that was HIM and not ME. So I was concerned from the beginning. We will see if we weather this storm. πŸ™‚

    I can see those as well with GS. The storming and transforming sort of happened together. πŸ™‚

    Keep up the advice – I LOVE it! πŸ™‚ I’ve learned so much in the past year and a half! πŸ™‚

  87.  #87Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 8:44 am

    Just looked it up. He and I were together 12 times on dates in September, and countless lunch dates.

    From mid October to now we have only had 3 times at night dates, and 2 lunches.

    Wow. That is amazing.

    No wonder I feel alone and rejected by him.

  88.  #88blue rose on November 13, 2013 at 8:52 am

    80: T-Girl

    Never heard of that. so helpful to know this is common. I’m in the storming part. And don’t know if we will make it πŸ™

  89.  #89Indigo on November 13, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Hi Elsie πŸ™‚

    So nice to see you back here. I was just talking about you in one of my posts above.

    I hope you don’t stress yourself about this decision. With so many thoughts and emotions swirling, and so many what-ifs, it is rarely the moment to decide. You sound wonderful, but not ready to decide, and that is more than ok. There is no fire. There is no time limit.

    And… these two men are not the only two men in the world.

    Let this situation reveal and teach all that it has to you.


  90.  #90Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Indigo – Thank you.

    For practical reasons, I would like to know how to handle CollegeCD. He texted me last night that he was setting aside some clothes for my daughter (his daughter is older) and that he and his exwife were cleaning out closets. Now, I absolutely ADORE that he and his ex wife are so close – it makes for a fantastic realtionship and she seems to like me! She has her own life and her own boyfriend. They point is that is fine with me, but he hasnt seen me in over a week, I’ve told him I wanted to see him, and I just got divorced last Thursday.

    I did not text him back because I was hurt that it seemed he was choosing to clean out a closet with her instead of coming to see me. He had other opportunities since last Thursday and chose not to see me too – so this was sort of the last straw for me.

    I chose not to answer because I was afraid I would be super angry, and I chose instead to remain silent to discern how I really felt.

    I decided after a long night of no sleeping that I feel rejected and hurt.

    Today is the first day in our entire relationship that he has not said “Good morning sunshine, or baby etc.” ever.

    I know he is trying to punish me for not texting him back last night.

    I need help to figure out how to move forward and what to do. I feel like I need to either text him or figure out what to text him when he texts me…..I want to make a healthy choice – help me! πŸ™‚

  91.  #91Indigo on November 13, 2013 at 9:58 am


    My best self says leave it for a couple of days. Now, I understand how you are feeling, truly, truly I do, and why you would want to *do* something!

    But I would leave it until he contacts you, and then choose the next time you are together to have a gentle little heart-to-heart with him. No blaming, no acting put out or hurt, just calmly expressing your feelings, if you can, and making it about you.


  92.  #92Rori Raye on November 13, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Karen – ask in the most current post – and participate….the community will help you. Love, Rori

  93.  #93Syreena on November 13, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Elsie. College Cd not being there when you wanted him to be and choosing and wanting to clean out closet with ex wife feels like de ja vue to me.

    Didn’t a similar thing happen with GS when you wanted him to be emotionally there for you? Isn’t that how he used to be? Didn’t he choose to clean his childrens rooms? Or have I got that pattern wrong?

    Is there a pattern?
    Different man but same pattern repeating itself?

    One thing I feel unsure about is in what way do you want these men to be emotionally there for you?

    Are you wanting them just to listen to how you feel about any problems that are occuring at a level 2 level?

    Or something else?

    What is it you are wanting, I would like to understand that?

  94.  #94redbutterfly on November 13, 2013 at 11:44 am

    What do you guys think about initiating sex? Is it leaning forward? What if you do it all the time? The widower is almost 13 years older than me and although he enjoys it, sex is not at the top of his priority lists. Plus there is planning involved because we don’t live together, I have a 16 year old daughter (can’t be doing it with her in the house) and he needs to take a little pill to help things along. So definite planning. I tend to plan and he never complains but I guess I would like him to plan sometimes and be more interested in it. He said he and his late wife went for 3 years without sex once. She was very sick the whole 25 years they were married and eventually died from cancer and he didn’t have a huge sex drive so he would take care of himself every once in awhile and that worked just fine for him. I CANNOT live like that and told him sex is important to me (I’m not a nympho, once or twice a week is plenty for me) and he accepts that and if I say “come over so we can do it” he is agreeable and will show up hopefully with a pill already in his stomach! πŸ™‚
    I just seem to get these guys who don’t have much of a sex drive and I was hoping he wouldn’t be that way but he is. If I don’t plan, we would go weeks without sex. I just want him to initate a little more. How do I tell him that? Am I stupid for wanting that or should I just be happy that he treats me like a queen in everything else and when I do say I want to have sex, he is usually willing?

  95.  #96Dominique on November 13, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    redbutterfly – It would feel SO good to be ravished now and then.

    Or if he has initiated before, you can also try this – Remember when you…………..It felt SO amazing. I miss this. I would love to have this again.

    Or – I LOVE it when you surprise me with sex.


  96.  #97redbutterfly on November 13, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    I love the “i love when you surprise me…” comment! I might have to try that one out! πŸ™‚

  97.  #98Femininewoman on November 13, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Elsie – for the first time since this all started I feel firmly on GS side. As far as I am concerned nothing that CollegeCD is doing or not doing is affecting this for me. What I am reading is that you are treating GS like a friend, not a lover, so he has opened up. This to me, is your clue or how to successfully navigate a relationship with him. Have the Relationship you want – not the man. CollegeCD is as far as I am concerned being a man. He is overwhelmed and maybe even lost his purpose because of the situation with the job. I believe many men would react the way he is reacting now. Even GS. So I would not hold it against him. The thing is how much of it could you live with in the long run. With someone who you feel that deep affinity with and settlement inside that this is your “soulmate” I believe a woman would hang in there knowing she chose him and believing this will pass. It seems your history with GS and how is choosing to be now qualifies him. Some really need a crisis or a woman walking away from them to really appreciate what they have. My only “regret” is that you have been mostly serial monogammying rather than CDating. It would be great to see how you what feel about him if there were more men in the mix. At this point you don’t seem to be bored with him but you do seem to be bouncing back and forth between the two. Maybe even turning to one just because the other is not “earning his salt”. Either way if you choose one and he decides to behave “badly”, when you are married you will be “stuck”.

    You are in good place the way you say you feel about yourself and I am wondering if you would be willing to walk away from both of them to explore getting something better. I wonder if you told both of them that which one would step up. Also I wonder if you would be afraid to let them go?

  98.  #99Daria on November 13, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    wow so im practocing ‘reaching out’ to women to expand my social circle away ftom contacting men (even friends).

    and i ferl so unconfortable w my nvs of egat these girls ate thinking not pickibg up.

    i ferl sure my nvs are right lol


  99.  #100daria on November 13, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    ‘wow the way i felt just turned me right off… ypure so handsome n smart im sure you could fibd a way to turn me on, instead’

    wow men ‘fall’ for these because ot shows so much poise for soneobe to say this straight faced… lols… its like an actress , and theyre like wow shes magic bec ppl who can keep up a persona can keep their cool are powerful

  100.  #101daria on November 13, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    so my man wouldny get hard

    becayse my mind wasnt into it

    wow power

  101.  #102daria on November 13, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    im so excited to mert more men !!!

    i feel scared theyre sll gonna Suck !


    i wana love myself

    i wana velieve my attraction power grows ecponentuslly and bounces men out of theyre calypsos island

    and it just sucks to me Better men !

  102.  #103Femininewoman on November 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    “I know he is trying to punish me for not texting him back last night.”

    I believe this is a story you are telling yourself. How do you know that this thought is true?

    I read it and I wonder if you have been playing the roles of parent and child in your relationship up to this point. Or why do you come to this conclusion. It could be that he has a problem and have chosen to work it out on his own. Maybe his problem is how he truly feels about your relationship and he needs the space (with his ex, maybe) to truly figure out his feelings and really truly choose you. Men have their doubts too and have different ways of working through them.

  103.  #104April Rose on November 13, 2013 at 1:00 pm


    How would this feel…..
    “Time to sink deeper into your feminine core”

    Several things you have written in your postings struck me as you acting from masculine energy. I don’t want to point them out unless you ask me to.

  104.  #105Daria on November 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    i got fuc*ked by a man who i think gave me hpv last time lol im so brave dobt say that put loud . im takin so much vutamin c and humic acid i kniw my immune sustem is hella strobg medicine eoman

    im tearibg cuz my life is really that cool. saying it once out loud for the girls who live free at nite wat wat

    i feel happy !!! i feel restored to my power .

    i also see how i create my ‘loneliness’ by not working out /walking for awhile which actually makes me feel unlonely longer than jus talking to people .

    so lobely us like down on lifeforce thru huddling still toi long in house and car box

    amd i can build mg lifeforce thru that thing…. moving / damcibg
    mim goun to 3 hours dsnce class tonite

  105.  #106daria on November 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    i feel so blessed to be able to write here from my iphone…. the electricsl sensitivity was from ‘tendons’ in TCM and its so much less… omg i felt terrifued to die / be tortured against my will. and now i ferl like im gently beginning to feel relieved

  106.  #107daria on November 13, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    he was blaming me seemed angry or resemtful .

    i felt totally shut down snd into my ‘nice girl’


    i dont wang to feel scared of men like that

    do they sll blame ?

    does it natter? how do i handle it ?

    i feel terrified…. squeezed in my chest …


    this womqn hit my car w thr door

    in some worlds thsts a provocation to feel resentful n blaming

    i feel nelted and tight/laughy

    will i hate myself later for not geyting aggressive ?

    or am i integrated this time

  107.  #108Turquoise on November 13, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    hi Sirens,

    It looks like I might actually have an opportunity to start CDing. I’ve been seeing Sweetheart again, and a couple really interesting guys have been popping up on my dating sites and emailing. Cute, hard working, looking for relationships… and I was going to take down my profiles just last week! I was sick, feeling blah at not hearing from the kind of men I’m interested in, or it not leading to actually dates…. and voila, here they are! πŸ™‚

    I’m really happy because I so want to try new things and not get caught up in one person. Sweetheart has been great, but his divorce isn’t filed yet, he still has all those health issues, and while his life is certainly getting better, he has a long way to go to be able to give me what I want. I’m not patient. Waiting will feel wrong to me, so I’m not limiting myself to just him, even though I know he really wants to pick right back up. We are going out to dinner Friday for his birthday, and have plans to go out of town in early Dec. for a concert. I’m excited! BUT, I’m still seeing Mr. Conversation here and there, strictly as friends now, and C (my ex husband) will be flying in for Thanksgiving and we are going to visit him for Christmas. It’s not romantic. It’s about our girls, and us as friends… but I don’t want anyone telling me I can’t go, or making me feel bad. He will be deployed next year for the holidays, miss birthday’s etc. Making the most of the time available now, and building good memories for the kids. That feels right to me.

    I’ll be 40 in a month… eeek! But excited too, making it a great year. πŸ™‚

  108.  #109redbutterfly on November 13, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Syreena, I am not sure if that link you posted was in response to my question but if so, I have a right to expect sex in my relationship and that doesn’t mean I am addicted to it. It is important to me and helps me feel bonded to my partner. I will not stay in a relationship without sex because I may start looking for it elsewhere. I don’t agree with the articles point that the only reason a person has sex is only for love. I do love my boyfriend dearly but I know from my ex husband and other boyfriends that sometimes they just want a quickie and in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that, especially in a committed relationship.

  109.  #110daria on November 13, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    i Hate myself so much that im not feeling better! i just want ti feel Good!

    dancibg will mahe me feel good


    it ferls turing ti switch ny habits to healthy

    i want to !

    i feel anguished

    i ferl excited for damce class

    gona smoke furst which us energy building

    i love my impukse fo spend money abd eat food i nornally dont

    i love my impulse to calll men

    to eat knstead of walk
    mi feel drained by the monotony of the walk wen i think about it
    mi feel angry

  110.  #111Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    @FW – LOVE THIS AND LOVE YOU! I would totally walk away from both of them. I think honestly that GS would totally follow. I *think* CollegeCD would but because I dont know him as well, I wont say 100%, but I”m about 95% on him. πŸ™‚ I got a good thing going here, but have to make a decision because its unfair to all.

    @April Rose – you can always say anything you want to me!

    Update: CollegeCD texted me this morning and asked “Why did you stop texting last night.” I basically said I would love to talk about it with him. He said – ok I’ll call you tonight. He is still very stressed about work, and we flirted a bit, and I know he needs a hug and he asked for a virtual one. He will have his kids all week, so I might not even see him until the weekend…..

    I am thinking of a script – I would like to see if it can maybe work with CollegeCD. I am willing to give him a chance.

    I know GS will always now be there for me (Wow, did ANYONE ever think I would EVER write that?) He is solid. He told me today that no matter what 20 years from now he will still feel the same way about me, even if I dont end up with him. He is solid.

    But I deserve to see what *I* want – not just others. So I’m going to really drill down here with CollegeCD and figure out what to say – help? ideas for scripts? I would love it! πŸ™‚

  111.  #112Dominique on November 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    What is it you want to say Elsie?


  112.  #113Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Dominique – I have no idea. Thats the problem.

    I feel like I love GS for reasons that are so different than the reasons that I love CollegeCD. Please remember although I knew CollegeCD in college, we didnt know each other THAT well…..that realtionship is really only 4 months…..GS is many many years.

    I want to say to CollegeCD that I loved the way he was at the beginning four months ago. I loved the way I felt with him then, and it feels like I’m being back burnered and other things are more important than me. He says he loves me, but I wonder if my opinion is really as important as his when it comes to the big things. I am going to talk to him tonight on the phone – he said he would call me – so I’m not sure how much if any of this is really phone conversation material. Its more in person material…..so help me please with a script.

  113.  #114Elsie on November 13, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Oh and he wants to know why I never texted him back last night. Basically I was frozen. I wanted to lash out – but I knew that wasnt healthy…..so I did nothing instead, and then it got too late. So I did nothing which probably wasnt a healthy choice, so there is that, but again, this is a guy who didnt answer two of my phone calls last Friday so its not as if he isnt guilty, but he did text me to tell me he was ok – I didnt do that for him. But then again, he didnt text me worried or call me to see if I’m ok.

  114.  #115Tereana on November 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    Indigo – thank you for posting the reference to Nina Brown! I’m so curious to check her out now, because my mom has some narcissistic tendencies, due to her relationship with her parents, etc. It’s good to know how to navigate these relationships, because some people we can’t actually choose to have in our lives ; )

    Meanwhile, it’s been an exciting time since my move. My grandfather’s condition is changing every day, and he can be very hard to be around at times, and alternately supportive and grateful.

    I’ve also got three men contacting me, from California. Plus, I heard from CCB right before I moved.

    The good thing about moving is, I feel like I get to pull my energy away in a good way. I’m focusing on myself. The men are intrigued. But I am not invested in them or the relationships with them. But now, suddenly, I feel like I have good relationships with them.

    One has some things that I want, but I don’t feel terribly attracted. And to me he seems “too nice.” Another is an old CD I haven’t heard from or contacted in a while. The ending with him was traumatic, so it’s been healing to have some communication with him. And the other man is a very good match for me, physically, and he pursues me and does a lot for me. But he doesn’t want a real relationship or a family, at all. I completely accept him, even with this. But I still know that, when it comes right down to it, in the end I’d have to choose someone who wants family. I want babies too much! I want to have children, and I’m not going to expect him to change his mind. But I sure do love his sexy attention. Mm…. Mama is happy πŸ™‚

  115.  #116Indigo on November 13, 2013 at 8:47 pm


    I’m so glad you may find it helpful πŸ™‚

    I really found her writing fantastic, because she tells you how to be in relationships with narcissistic people, how to handle them, and also to understand them, and not just walk away from them.

    Lots of love to you xx

  116.  #117Luzydel on November 13, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    I have issues with the so called “nice guys”.. they lack honesty and their fear of sounding like jerks or being rejected push me away. Tell me the truth! Tell me you’re afraid of getting attached; tell me I talk too much or whatever it is that bothers you; I can deal with it.

    Ugh! Nice guy = unhealthy; insecure and dishonest child… I want a Good, mature man! I wonder if that is possible…

  117.  #118paula on November 13, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    Iv got a boyfriend who is blowing hot and cold I really like him and want us to last

  118.  #119Emerson on November 13, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    I have been going through some interesting experiences…things I’ve been “asking for” are coming true for me…good things…
    I have been praying for not just a job offer but a choice of more than one job offer and I got it.
    I also asked for the same thing with relationships I want to have a choice between more than one good man… And I feel that it may actually happen.
    I feel good about being raw and honest with cutecityCD so what if he poofed because of it…
    I have a feeling he will be back.
    The other thing is my home…I have been visualizing some things and its weird how some changes are coming about…nothing super solid but looks like something is in the works…

  119.  #120Sirenity on November 13, 2013 at 11:57 pm


    1. They normally withdraw around 3-4 months and reassess where things are headed. Its about him getting his head together around values issues and the long term. This is normal and if you are ok together he will return. As for GS..well, there is none so keen as those in unrequited love and were you suddenly accepting GS’s forever plans i can’t help but wonder what would happen next. Absence makes the heart grow fonder..etcetera.

    2. you may have been exclusive but you were not committed. College CD knows that and can feel YOUR withdrawal while you reignite with GS . CCD is mirroring you. You therefore cannot judge his “withdrawal’ as you were stepping back yourself.

    3. Staying open to both is most important and may I suggest this is not Either /Or . This is a learning experience and it may be that knowing these two men are defining for you the one guy you really would want forever. This may just be Act 1.

    4. The values thing becomes paramount when you are at this stage..and how you might live with this person/s ongoingly through life. Are they resilient? Are they flexible? are they willing to consider compromise?

    5.And most of all my two RULES in this situation are as follows…
    The leopard Does Not change his Spots

    Believe in the direction their feet are going , not the words they are saying.

    Good luck!!

  120.  #121Emerson on November 13, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    117 luzydel that’s a good point I never thought of it that way!

    Hi tereana!

  121.  #122Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 5:42 am

    Elsie got this from Mimi Tanner.

    “Tip of the Day: If he ever complains that you are not calling him or asking him out, consider it proof that you are doing things right. Lots of women fall apart at the slightest complaint from a man. They lose their grip just when things are going well. “

  122.  #123Linda G on November 14, 2013 at 6:46 am

    FW, couldn’t agree more
    I find some men are used to aggressive women and feel baffled and panicked when they have to “row the boat”

    It’s a test to their manhood, to me. Also, men who have been married for a while, older men, became used to their wives arranging and handling everything

  123.  #124Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 6:50 am


    How does someone compromise about where you live, money, God annulment, having children, and if your children still go to catholic school or not?

    Either the couple are on the same page or they are not. And not a match on serious issues that are dealbreakers.

    For instance if I am catholic and I want my children to go to catholic school, that is what I want.
    Or we can flip that. I don’t want my children to go to a muslim school, c of e school, voluntary run school etc.
    And that is what I don’t want. How does someone compromise on something that is so important to them.

    The very moment someone doesn’t hear the word NO I don’t want my children to go to a c of e school, muslim school, non relegious school etc. If what you want is for them to go to a catholic and tries to convince you otherwise is the moment to get out.

    The same the other way around. So if he says NO I don’t want to compromise, that is it. Either you are both on the same page. Or one isn’t that bothered and happy to go along with. SO IT’S NOT REALLY AN ISSUE AS ONE PERSON DOESN@T REALLY MIND EITHER WAY>
    Or your views are poles apart and a deal breaker.

    The moment someone says yes to something that they have previously said no to, is the moment they say no to themselves and hand their power and control over to another person.
    It is a huge red flag if someone doesn’t hear the word NO I don’t want to. And persists tries to convine change their mind etc. It teaches the person that NO doesn’t mean NO.

    NO is a complete sentence and the end of a converstaion not the beginning of a negotiation Or make in into a sentence if it’s easier.
    No I don’t want to live in X, Y or Z!

    Are you hearing he doesn’t want to compromise and accepting that? Or trying to convince him otherwise?

  124.  #125Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Wow Syreena. How rigid.

    Relationships involve negotiations.

    Men naturally resist. If you don’t want him to be the convincer do you want that role?

  125.  #126Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 7:20 am

    “The moment someone says yes to something that they have previously said no to, is the moment they say no to themselves and hand their power and control over to another person”. People change their minds all the time. Men also need to know that they can influence their women.

    “It is a huge red flag if someone doesn’t hear the word NO I don’t want to. And persists tries to convine change their mind etc. It teaches the person that NO doesn’t mean NO”. Why is it such a huge red flag. Everyone has their opinion. Each person has to do decide what their non-negotiables are. In a love partnership all these things have to be put on the table so both can evaluate if they can move forward together. Deciding the battle can only be won with a yes before it even starts has me wondering why would a man want to even try to lead in such a situation. Men are natural leaders and decision makers. If he is to be the head of the family how else can he do it. Give in to every whim of the woman?

  126.  #127Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 7:22 am

    I wonder what ever happened to balance?

  127.  #128Elsie on November 14, 2013 at 7:25 am

    First off – I love you girls πŸ™‚

    @Sirinity – I love this advice. I would say that I do disagree about a leopard changing spots. I know for a fact I’ve changed mine. I am wholeheartedly a different person than I was two years ago. No kidding. And I’ve seen others do the same. Our lives are all about changing. πŸ™‚

    @FW – Love that quote. Love it!

    @Syreena – Yes, I agree with you. There are some things that ARE dealbreakers. I think I have to sit with myself and seriously figure out what those are. Not just my wants, but my needs. Thank you for helping me see that.

    I ended up having a great talk with CollegeCD last night on the phone. He thought he was going to get yelled at – I’ve never yelled at him. LOL. At the end of the day, he knew that the way he has been treating me lately was not kind, and so he actually said that – and it was a wonderful talk. I told him that I felt horrible and icky, and that I missed our closeness. He loved the way I phrased things – thank you Rori and girls on here! πŸ™‚

    But I have to tell you – that even in the end that everything between us was wonderful, I feel like I love him, but I’m not in love with him. Maybe that will take some time.

    I think I’m going to take a step back from both.

    I am going to figure out what *I* want. And then see if either of them, or neither of them fits what it is that I want out of my life. I need to figure out what MY LIFE is going to look like before I can find the puzzle piece that fits well in it right?

    If someone were to tell me that I would be here with two WONDERFUL (and hot….have I mentioned hot, because wow, how did I get so lucky?) guys…..and that I am stepping away from both for a bit to figure out what I want….well, thats a leapord changing spots. πŸ™‚

  128.  #129Veronica on November 14, 2013 at 7:30 am

    FW -121- he he I feel so sassy knowing that. Thank you!

  129.  #130Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 7:33 am

    “If someone were to tell me that I would be here with two WONDERFUL (and hot….have I mentioned hot, because wow, how did I get so lucky?) guys…..and that I am stepping away from both for a bit to figure out what I want….well, thats a leapord changing spots.”

    I love it.

  130.  #131Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 7:35 am

    Venorica – πŸ™‚

  131.  #132Dominique on November 14, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Elsie – 113- “I’m feeling disconnected. I love the way I felt with you, and now I find myself missing this and missing you. I don’t know what to say, and I don’t know what to do. Can you help me with this?”

    If he asks about not returning his call, be honest.

    “I felt an urge to lash out, and I didn’t want to do that. I didn’t want to say something I didn’t really mean, so I did nothing.”


  132.  #133BeLoved on November 14, 2013 at 8:22 am

    I’ve been thinking and feeling a lot about this post and thinking of a couple of recent experiences with men.
    The first guy, who didn’t make it past the first couple of exchanges I’m especially wondering about.
    I felt SO rattled, SO pist after I said I felt uncomfortable hearing about his dating life and he responded by telling me even MORE about it.
    I know, on one level, it was a misunderstanding.
    He was believing I didn’t want to hear about it out of insecurity.
    I had other reasons, mainly wanting to keep the focus on ME. I don’t want to hear about other women’s schedules and when they are available, I want the focus on ME and I want him focused on when am *I* available πŸ™‚
    So…a lot of stuff came up, I felt really triggered.
    It reminded me of tons and tons of confusion with T, and how many awful, nowhere conversations we had where he just didn’t ‘get’ me and didn’t want to because he was so busy trying to control what I thought of him and how I saw him, he couldn’t see ME.

    Which reminded me of my mother…
    which brought up DAYS and DAYS of bubbling rage at feeling unseen, unheard, feeling violated and I felt angry.

    I’m seeing that I thought but didn’t say…
    that feels really bad and confusing that you would invite me and then not be available.

    I felt like, my reaction was SO angry, SO pist, that it wasn’t good or appropriate or nice or okay to say so. I just had one exchange with this guy, online, who I never met and who first, invited me for coffee then said he wasn’t available for weeks.

    So I just dismissed him. Not just him but got off of online dating altogether. Again.
    So many stupid conversations.
    Him: Hello.
    Me: Hello!
    Him: (the next day) Hello
    Me: Hello. ?
    Him: Hello

    AFTER setting up a date and never bothering to call when he said he would.

    I feel angry angry…I’m not your toy! I’m a real live person!

    I can feel…some deep healing maybe ready to happen here…
    old stuff from childhood. It has been very difficult to be in the same room as my mother this past few days. I feel violated, irritated, whenever she’s around.
    It feels like pulling, draining, sucking, taking my energy, taking something from me whenever she asks for simple things, like helping with her computer.

    I feel like she sees me as something to ‘get’ something from. She calls me to ask how to spell words ON HER SMARTPHONE when she’s sitting right in front of the computer.

    Oh, there, that’s it….SHE’S THE MOM and I’M THE CHILD and she’s not supposed to be dependent on MEEEEE!!!

    I feel very very aggressive when that wound gets touched.
    I can feeeeellll…this can change. This can heal. It feels a lot lighter, coming to the surface, than ever before.
    It feels scary.
    Like I might die without that protection of aggression.
    Worse than die…be exposed with no protection and laid bare
    like a baby
    even more vulnerable like a baby,
    like an oyster with no shell, or a slug
    all raw, fleshy vulnerability with no protection
    feels like worse than dying
    Living in humiliating, excruciating, degrading exposure
    nowhere to go, nowhere to hide
    feeling like lab animal
    soft and vulnerable and poked and prodded and experimented on by people with no empathy, no feeling for the pain they cause
    my heart weeps.

    Yes yes please let this heal thank you thank you thank you.

  133.  #134Indigo on November 14, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Feminine Woman,

    Why not go back through Syreena’s posts and count the number of times she has said “it is a huge red flag when…”

  134.  #135Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Absolutely if I say the word No I am rigid on it. It is rigid and I mean it. Strong boundaries.
    NO means NO, not oh ok yes thanks I am ok with that, or maybe or perhaps or I am easy either way.
    Or No I don’t want to do that I mean them.
    If I wanted something or was easy either way then it’s fine. I feel easy on a lot of things. And Rigid on others.

    I don’t want to negotiate dealbreakers, otherwise it isn’t a dealbreaker.
    Anyone who doesn’t hear the words No .
    Or No I don’t want to is trying to control you.
    And if the person who has said no buckles that person is teaching them that they more than likely will buckle again and again and No doesn’t mean no.

    Red flag because they want to and are trying to control you. And don’t hear your NO, or No I don’t want to do that.

  135.  #136Indigo on November 14, 2013 at 8:30 am


    SOOO fantastic. I cannot help thinking about how far you’ve come, in being able to take a step back from both of them to assess things and get clearer on what you want. That is amazing progress.


  136.  #137Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Wishing you well in your stepping back Elsie and discovering what you want and what your non negotiables and dealbreakers are.

  137.  #138Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 8:48 am

    A person who buckles on boundaries and dealbreakers has just had one of their boundaries removed.

    That is what manipulaters and abusers do.
    Slowley but surely remove boundaries/dealbreakers one by one, until they have total control over another person.

  138.  #139Millie on November 14, 2013 at 8:57 am

    I am feeling unsure. A girlfriend and I were talking last night and she told me that the way I carry myself doesn’t represent what I want inside. That I am too nonchalant and flighty… People used to tell me I took things too seriously so I lightened up… I stopped a lot of the mentalities that I thought weren’t working. Now I’m wondering if I’ve unraveled myself too much…..

    This guy…the mechanic, whom I am attracted to and enjoy his company, asked me to dinner the night before he was leaving on a 10 day trip. I wasnt sure if it was a date or not but I went, had fun, and stated some boundaries. The day he comes back from the trip he wants to see me, this feels good and we went to dinner. But…. As much as he is a shameless flirt with me, he asked me to meet him at the restaurant again and wanted to invite another one of our friends. So I got the feeling from him that this is not a date, so I didn’t treat it as such. But at the end he asked me what I was doing this weekend and started texting me right after we parted ways. My girlfriend is saying that I am being too nonchalant and that if I want to date him I need to act accordingly by being more assertive. The thing is I don’t want to row the boat, I have been letting him show me what he wants and the kind of man he is. I feel confused by him a little because he seems interested but at the same time is not making it clear that “this is a date.” My gf says I should find out where I stand, but I feel like that is going against what I’ve been working towards. I’m not sure what I should do differently to get a clearer idea of what’s happening here…with him. I would have said no to meeting him there if I felt like it was date, but I wasn’t sure if he had simply asked out of friendship. I know I shouldn’t be in his head, but I feel unsure of what I need to do or say to stear this in either the friendship direction or dating direction. I’ve already been clear I don’t want FWB so that is not an option I want to open up. That would not be taking care of myself. Any suggestions?

  139.  #140Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 8:58 am

    “Surrender to faith in yourself. Surrender to the impossibility of knowing what’s around every corner. Surrender, not to longing, but to the pleasurable possibilities of what’s around the corner. Surrender to this idea: Romance is wonderful, love is not painful, and shoes can look good and feel good too. Stilettos are overrated.

    Here is the Meditation and the Intention:

    I intend to turn toward love, affection, attention, cherishing, and away from the idea that any one person holds that for me. I intend to turn toward feeling good and away from feeling bad. I intend to turn toward my future and away from my past. Toward pleasure and away from pain.”


  140.  #141Dominique on November 14, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Millie – You’re doing just fine, great even. Let him steer this – or not.


  141.  #142redbutterfly on November 14, 2013 at 9:36 am

    I think a marriage is a compromise all the way through. I think of course there should be boundaries but maybe at first you may be rigid with not sending your kids to catholic school but then you may find that maybe it’s a really good school and even though you aren’t catholic, it’s your best option. I am not saying that is the case, just using it as an example. I think as you grow and mature your boundaries may change and a marriage is growing and learning together.

  142.  #143BeLoved on November 14, 2013 at 9:41 am

    I just remembered…yesterday, one of the men on another site called and asked me how to spell something. After we joked a bit, I asked, why would you call ME? My mom does that all of the time and I don’t get it…

    He said, “I was running down the list of people I could trust with my vulnerabilities. I called my wife first, then my sister, neither of them answered the phone, so next I called you.”

    I’m not sure if this is a good or bad thing (or neither) – it feels scary to try to connect it with my mother some how.

    I don’t mind if W calls, because I just like him and I don’t care if he refuses to use his spell check or the internet – so…I don’t know….maybe I can learn not to want to jump out of my skin and howl like a primal beast in protest when my mom asks??

    I like that he said that…”trust you with my vulnerabilities”. He said it a couple of times πŸ™‚
    It felt good to hear that.

  143.  #144Daria on November 14, 2013 at 9:57 am

    im feeling totallyl desperate

    i feel afraid i dont know how to use my feminine energy anymore

    im into all these masculine energy habits

    just a few days ago i had new clarity on my habits and everything seemed doable

    my loneliness was really – unexercsised heartness – and walking was a better answer than calling and going ot kick it with a guy , friend or not

    and now i just feel overwhelmed, hot and worried of enduring boredom/loneliness pain from Not doing those habits…

  144.  #145Daria on November 14, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I just want the tools to work Quickly!

    i want men to pop out of the woodwork

    tath would feel so fantastic and distracting from thinking about overwhelm and refreshing!

  145.  #146Daria on November 14, 2013 at 9:59 am

    i want to feel loved by a man

    i can’t believe still that i didnt’ feel loved by M man when i so felt that consistently every time we spent time together till the other nite

  146.  #147Femininewoman on November 14, 2013 at 10:00 am

    redbutterfly I like how you put that.

  147.  #148Daria on November 14, 2013 at 10:00 am

    i want to love myself without being strict harsh or depriving

    i want to Re-believe men Will show up, like they had the previous years since 08

    but this year not as much?

  148.  #149Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Redbuterfly. I hear what you say and agree. If a person comes to a that decision themselves later down the line and reaches that conculsion themselves without being cojolled, forced, pestered, persauded and then genuinly wants and is ok with something different that is a different senario.
    It has to be from a genuine desire within though of now wanting to do that because they genuinly feel ok with it and not one of doing it to appease another person, giving themselves up, by saying yes to another and no to themselves. They are then genuinly both on the same page. Not one dominatiing, exerting and trying to control and force another.

  149.  #150Liquid Light on November 14, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Wow, Beloved, I think that is huge! It is rare that a man would say that and expose himself like that. Very touching!

  150.  #151Veronica on November 14, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Ugh I drank coffee earlier to help me get some work done and I sooo regret it now. Ugh it’s hitting me harder than it usually does – I don’t drink coffee, only when I need to get going ASAP and nothing else is working.

    It feels like my brain is see-sawing bee-baa and my vision starts doing the same after a while. My blood vessels feel like they want to expand and my bones feel like they want to detach from my flesh and let my flesh flop and deal with it on its own. Sorry body : ( for making you go all zingy-pep, soon I’ll have good healthy food, more water and there’s lovely fresh air coming through the window.

    How can one teaspoon of coffee at 10am be this bad at 8pm? It’s the amplified coffee zing I don’t understand – usually there’s a little zing and a little trouble sleeping. I had some coffee two or three days ago to help me again – could that have impounded today’s coffee effect? Ugh no.more.coffee!

  151.  #152Daria on November 14, 2013 at 10:14 am

    i feel glad im healed from my EMF thing

    i feel glad i have my funds for my trip to Brazil

    i feel glad i look beautiful

    i feel glad im dancing again

    i feel … disappointed not a lot of people seem to be ‘out’ anymore

    i feel… down thinkign fo doing laundry all day wihtout going out to interact

    i feel sad im not being asked out

    i feel disappointed my life doesn’t feel ‘poppin’ socially

    i feel curious about not contacting male friends and supporting and encouraging myself to follow through calling female friends

  152.  #153Syreena on November 14, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Redbutterfly, the danger and the red flag is in the someone who doesn’t hear the No I don’t want that and in trying to control and convince you otherwise, rather than saying ok, I hear what you do and don’t want and accept that.

  153.  #154Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:14 am

    i feel frustrated and sad!

  154.  #155Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:15 am

    make men appear and ask me out!

    actually one pretty much is on the phone…

  155.  #156Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:16 am

    now my thought is that M Man resents me for not giving to him without holding back

    and realizing its really more about expressing and holding my boundareis that made it look taht way

    and i feel disappointed and sad thinking about the future

    and scared

  156.  #157Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:17 am

    i feel frustrated talking in feeling messages i keep feeling ‘stuck’ and unexpressed

    i feel muffled

  157.  #158Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:23 am

    i feel panicked that the future is moving too fast

    it feels unitegrated to this slow mucky close future

    i feel sad

    i feel excited at knowing things can change on a dime when i stop the addictive behaviors (reaching out to men)

    noticint in hte past they didnt stop but slowly wound up ampifying when i was using these addictive behavior some of the time

    such as ‘friends’ with GetRight and therefore calling and driving to him

    and then this seemed to be ‘working’ in some ways tho i remember still feeling frustrated

    what if i feel terriblyb bored and stuck like a rich girl at the summer palace with gardens and no available men

    i dont want to feel that way!

    i feel panicked thinking of feeling that way

    when i was being asked out a lot that way i felt important and attractive and high degree difficulty

    and also soooo very plain bored with my social life

    i want my social life to ‘pop’

    i want to have somewhere to go chilli n the mronings

    maybe thsi new push/ reaffirmation to go through with contacts to women friends will get me there…

  158.  #159Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:28 am

    i feel all the love and feeling safe i felt with M man bubblin inside me ready to spill on somoene else!

    yaya that feels GOOD!

    and exciting

    this lil bit of focusin on me (not calling men for companionship) is already starting to bubble me up!

    also i don’t want to go into a resentful-punishing ‘stance’

    with M man

    i noticed my habit of doing that

    i already made two FB comments about being ‘single’ (immeditaly after seeing him that nite) and about one of my ‘husbands’ (not him)

    so im wondering if that is my subconscious creating Drama with him to get his interest/punish him

    i notice that kinda gelousy creating drama does seem to create attraction, but nto maintain the connection for a relationship

  159.  #160Elsie on November 14, 2013 at 11:31 am

    OK one down – one to go.

    I told GS today that I needed some space to just think about what it is I really want. He was so wonderful. He cried because he thought we were getting closer, texting at night, etc and we were – thats the point of why I need some space to figure out what I want. He was so understanding. He was like, you tell me what you need, what you want – and you’ve got it. I’m here when you need to come back. I was sad, but happy that I did it. I feel like I can breathe and make some notes and meditations and pray a lot and figure out what it is that I want.

    Now on to CollegeCD. I think I will see him on Sat. I dont know how/what I will say to him. But I think I will say that I just got divorced and it affected me more than I thought it would (true) and that with him pulling away in the last month, I think I just need to take some space and really figure out what it is that I want. We’ll see how he reacts to it.

    If I’m putting bets in Vegas, I would say I end up with GS. But of course, I’m always wrong LOL.

    Thank you all for your support and encouragement. And I truly believe now that you can not say the wrong thing to the right man. πŸ™‚

  160.  #161Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:51 am

    i feel unsure of myself and insecure

    if M man suddenly felt unattracted to me on some level

    and maybe its not sudden

    maybe its the resentment that comes out in those texts, but never came out in person

    so do i still have my siren power of creating safety?

    maybe i wasnt for not speaking honestly and especially nto sharing my boundaries

    i was making hte energy feel uncomfortable and ocnfused

    on the other hand M man i feel impressed with how well he seems to be doing financially and life wise

    he was taking care of his daughter, had something he was driving and i know he has a job

    it would feel awesome to see this shift im embarking on in myself affect him and all others around me

  161.  #162Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:52 am

    im feeling sad!

    ok not focusing on the men anymore back to self focus

  162.  #163Liquid Light on November 14, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Go, Elsie, go! Awesome, girl!!! πŸ™‚

  163.  #164redbutterfly on November 14, 2013 at 11:58 am

    The comment of not being able to say the wrong thing to the right man has been made on here before and I love it! It’s so true!

  164.  #165Daria on November 14, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    when that one guy i thought was my friend borrowed money from me and didnt pay it back i felt bad but whoa i didnt see that one coming eiether like this

    ‘it was bound to break down sometime’ against eht impossibilities of the world

    thsi si just spam … i am changing all these beliefs

    its all just transforming and growing

    im feeling way more motivated honestly

    thank you Daria for putting in more laundry

    and i notice im not as internet addicted like i was


    dropping addictions overall in time rather than replacing them means creating a new normal and transforming Everything wow

  165.  #166Amazed on November 14, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    #94 – redbutterfly – I feel your pain and rejection. I have been with someone for the past 6 weeks now. At first we would fool around and it was exciting. Then I stayed over – well I expected from that glimpse from before that sex would naturally follow. Anyway…not to be. I thought he was kidding first but he is serious. He is 43, I’m 38 with a healthy sexual appetite. His take when I asked why he wasn’t interested was “if it happens it happens, if it doesn’t it doesn’t”. I told him it didn’t feel good to initiate and he says…well don’t! πŸ™ Ok I get that the emphasis of a relationship is not on the sexual part of things…but for me it is an important part – it is a fun, bonding thing to be able to do with your partner? I am not an addict or a nymph…a couple times a week would be great. However I am not wanting him to have sex with me just to placate me. I want him to want to. I have never had this issue with a man before. It doesn’t make me feel good and when I told him that it mad me feel like he didn’t want me he didn’t understand what I was talking about! Argh…some comments on here were..maybe I’m the girl he wants to take home to mama… and he has said that I frighten him because he hasn’t felt like this in a long time. But…overall the physical affection he’s showing has been lessening. I’m going to have a talk with him to find out what’s going on with FM of course. I’ve switched my mindset to looking for the relationship I want and not a man I want. I am not happy with the way things are now and can see CDing in my near future…just don’t know how to put it. I feel disconnected and undesired… I want a relationship with physical intimacy or I’m going elsewhere for it? Ugh

  166.  #167Amazed on November 14, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    I had been seeing someone who was an amazing lover, but had so much debt and we couldn’t communicate…another who wouldn’t communicate if any personal life issues would arise and was an eager lover as well…and now…a great communicator but not so great in the love dept?? Sigh…will I ever get it right?! Lol

  167.  #168redbutterfly on November 14, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    (((Amazed)))) I remember reading your story on here awhile ago and I remember thinking “guys are supposed to be more sexual than women, why can I never find that? Must be more common than I thought it was.” My exhusband was that way, sex was a complete chore for him and we would have fights over it. He told me when we started dating that he didn’t have a high sex drive. He said when we split up that he wished he wouldn’t have been so lazy and would have taken time to enjoy me more but men say a lot of stuff when you are walking out the door! πŸ™‚
    And it feels bad to be rejected when you are in a relationship with someone. I very rarely reject someone because I hate how it feels when I experience it.
    I would say that I agree with you, Amazed, in your case it could be a dealbreaker and I feel sad for you. Grrr!
    In my case my boyfriend is usually willing if I bring it up but usually I have to plan it. I am going to talk to him about it in a couple of days and tell him that it would feel good for him to initate sometimes.

  168.  #169Liquid Light on November 14, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    I feel like I am leaving a lot of men in my wake. And that feels rotten. I don’t want to make others feel bad or lead them on. I end up feeling guilty about leading someone on. The other night, I literally had one man on one side and another man on the other side of me and I was engaging with both men. I didn’t enjoy it. It made me feel really uncomfortable. Also, I’m getting anger back from some men and I don’t like that at all. I feel I need to be more careful about whom I encourage and whom I don’t.

  169.  #170Millie on November 14, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Dominque–thank you for your support πŸ™‚

  170.  #171Linda G on November 14, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    “And it feels bad to be rejected when you are in a relationship with someone.”

    I had a boyfriend years ago who would tease me sexually and then back off when I wanted to take it all the way.
    I felt mortified, shamed almost. I realized it was a kind of control thing, I think….

  171.  #172Linda G on November 14, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    This sounds more like guilt, feeling the need or pressure to be loyal, even to a stranger. It’s indoctrinated into some of us.
    Think “rock star”, enjoy the attention and adoration

  172.  #173April Rose on November 14, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Liquid Light,
    Rori says it feels uncomfortable opening up to the attentions of men at first. I’m finding this to be true, and so I’m moving through the awkwardness in baby steps.
    You are not leading anyone on. We have no responsibility to a man unless he is someone we have agreed to exclusivity with, with a wedding date in sight (or equivalent).
    Its not as if you are even ‘doing’ anything to encourage their attentions.
    Remember “I need do nothing”, lean back, and let them adore you! Terrifying!!!!

  173.  #174April Rose on November 14, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    I remember asking Rori a question on the LoveForever teleclass.
    I asked “what about these men I am hurting by letting them come close to me and then rejecting them?”
    She practically told me I was being arrogant to assume I was hurting them.

    The way I look at it now – I have to let ’em in close, so I can choose.

    The woman gets to choose. Simple.

  174.  #175Liquid Light on November 14, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Thanks Linda G and AR: good food for thought!

  175.  #176Tired on November 14, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Ladies. I’m at my wit’s end. I did the work. He moved toward me. He and I started dating before his divorce was final, it was final 2 months later. He was devastated. I work with him and we have mutual friends.

    I found out two weeks ago through circumstances I won’t go into here, that he was seeing another woman I knew from work, but she was laid off. He was practically living with her, had the keys to her house, her garage door opener. He went to her son’s graduation. She met his family, I never have She said he never promised her anything, not being her bf, not anything. She had a Christmas party – he blew her off.

    He’s pretty good looking and women just come on to him all the time. This has made him callous I’m afraid, but it’s also made him lonely.

    I let him be who he is. We started out as friends, then friends with benefits, then the benefits stopped all together because I didn’t get the commitment I wanted. No, that’s a lie. They stopped because she had genital warts back in the summer. He never told me but just said that we couldn’t have sex for a while and that he was doing this for me.

    So after all the drama of the Saturday night two weeks ago, he came over Sunday morning at my insistence that I needed to confront him. Let me also say he said I was not his gf and that he couldn’t be my bf. I’m okay with that as I’m not sure this is a man I want to meet my family and friends. But when we are alone together we “get” each other I guess. We snuggle. He is “safe” to share his emotions and feelings. He’s been honest with me about the whole thing. So back to Sunday morning at 5:30 AM – he comes over, it was daylight savings….I let him have it, physically and emotionally. For two hours we talked, cried (me, not him) and he got on his knees and asked forgiveness. Later that day I was totally incapacitated from all the crying and drinking so I asked him to pick me up some stuff I needed, one thing was for a co-worker’s bday. He came over that afternoon and stayed til 11 that night.

    There has not been a day we haven’t been in touch. I told him it would be good for him to apologize to the other woman, because he treated her like shit. He did. He also doesn’t talk to her or see her. But he wants to be friends with me but doesn’t want to hurt me again. We are in a strange place. And I just don’t know what to do. He tells me still that he can’t be my bf, and that’s mainly because he still wants to f*ck around. And I’m okay with that, as long as we’re not having sex….after reading the above I believe he is a bit of a narcissist and very selfish, he’s 40 years old and has never had kids. Doesn’t know if he wants them either. I can’t have them, I’m 52. Other woman was 54. He likes us older ones, we are quite nurturing and relatively drama free.

    I asked him why he did it, he didn’t really have an answer. He said it wasn’t fun, that he lived in fear every day of being found out.

    He’s answered all of my questions, he leaves the lines of communication open.

    So basically, he cheated on me, but not really because we weren’t exclusive, he treated me like he wanted me back but isn’t offering me anything new, and I really am okay with that.

    What I don’t know is why? Why me? And why him?? Why can’t I seem to let him go? Am I just being played? Am I being stupid? What questions do I need to ask myself?

    Thanks ladies. This is the short version for sure, this has been going on for two years. I date other men but have never found someone that makes me feel like he does. Am I doomed? Am I stupid??? Sometimes I feel like it.

  176.  #177daria on November 14, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    wow the way i heard that just turned me right off… youre so handsime and smart, im sure you could find a way to turn me on, instead…

    sigh πŸ™‚

    i feel the power of this more…

    i wana practice telling men theyre handsome and smart

    i feel scared and i eant to practice sauing the whole thing

  177.  #178daria on November 14, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    i Wana do what Rori is doing here in this article

    imprintung a man to me … and (then i eont have to ‘train’ him fir my lifestyle … but i will ‘) ufff :/

    i feel like ive rubberbamded straight obto mu bridge

    like a part of me did it automatically

    and now M cd and hella other CDs are gona be into me

    yay ! πŸ™‚

  178.  #179Rori Raye on November 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    Tired – welcome, and none of the questions you asked are relevant. You can’t really be Circular Dating, or you would have found another man and dropped this one long ago. The only question to ask is why you want to stay where it doesn’t feel good, and if you’d be willing to do something else. Love, Rori

  179.  #180Daria on November 14, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    so question ladies:

    what do you respond when a man says “so are you ever in “his city””

    and you’ve just started talking…

    cuz to me it feels heart fluttery fear and judgement of him and also i don’t want to take the lead/assume/get defensive

  180.  #181Liquid Light on November 14, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    When I was out on a date the other night and was kinda losing it (very upset, emotional, angry all over the map), and voiced my anger and upset about a situation with my landlord. The guy responded by complaining about his situation with his tenants. It made me feel angrier. I want a guy who can handle things, esp his own stuff and not complain to me about it. It was disappointing and unattractive because it made him see less manly. I’m finding it hard to find manly men, men who can handle their own **** and not complain about it.

  181.  #182Daria on November 14, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    hey i just realized i was looking at some advice from another site and realize it doesnt work for me

    like i felt way more at ease when i was looking to ‘best express my feelings’

    rather than now looking to not show him my anxiety… i think i got that mixed up with blaming him/complaining

    like if i ‘complain’ early on of course he will elave is the thought i got in my mind

    so instead im gonna go back to practicing what i was, which was Feeling messages expressing my real feelings in a situation, or about something…

    and construct those, focus on that,

    see it all as ‘practice’

    and not worry about showing him my anxiety

    i will also still not lean forward, and i will also not blame him. … that part i do feel glad i practiced with


    ok i feel ‘back on track’ i havent felt this way. 0ptimistic. /Rori sure. in a long time…

  182.  #183Daria on November 14, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    how interesting that i was influenced by the otehr site in this way…

    i must have insecurities about complaining, blaming men, or ‘not being fun’


    just this lil tweak and im BACK

  183.  #184Daria on November 14, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    it didnt push guys away before… and its not gonna push them away now…

    leaning back with Full FM describing my feelings, not my agenda for our future together…


    ‘how did i get sidetracked, blaming someone else, where is my ‘weakness’ am i too rigid/ harsh and i thought i should ‘tone it down’?

    were men even running away from me?


    so what was it….

    it was about woriking with :Eum’s

    i started thinking in tohse terms and thinking how to ‘not make it hard fo r them’

    and appreciate even the little he has to give… ONLY

    do not be the ‘downer’

    i felt totally unimportant in all taht

    yes it comes down to me…


    what if what i feel is mad

    but then what if im only Focusing on being mad… instead of sharing all teh toher emotions..


    i can just go back to

    that feels so safe and girly and ‘me’

    yey and Sharing my z”power speech’ and feelings feels so girly

    ands safe and private

    it feels nothing like the intense pressure i was feeling bafore

    wow im really leaning back now thats why

    im just “receiving’ communicaation and i feel unpressured!

  184.  #185Daria on November 14, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    i havent called guys once yet today~ and i dont even want to yay!

    i called my girl fromm outta state and i hit up the blog

  185.  #186Linda G on November 14, 2013 at 7:14 pm


    The dilemma of on line dating, being lured to guys who are far away.
    The good guys will say I am willing to travel to meet you, or it’s too bad we are so far apart and that is the end.

    When I have been asked that question,I say, no, Or you know, I really have never been there, something like that.
    Then they try to convince me to travel. When I respond with, I feel more comfortable closer to home, or I don’t like to travel, they either step up or disappear

    how can you date someone who is not willing to pick you up, come to you, make the effort?

    Rori points out that long distance makes it difficult for him to even be in the relationship bubble. But for me, if he is willing to come to me, I can add him to my rotation.

    I hate traveling to a man, it feels desperate to me and too much effort.

  186.  #187Andrea on November 14, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Tired… It feels like you won’t be able to ask any of those questions in the space that you’ve created for yourself.

    My first thought to your plea that you’ve dated other men but can’t find any other that makes you feel the way he does: I would say, take a thirty day leave of absence from the whole situation. Don’t contact him or accept his contact. And DON’T try to find other men who make you feel the way that he makes you feel.
    INstead, take thirty days and get back to feeling YOU. Feel all the hurt, confusion, anger, apathy, all the sadness. Let yourself feel you again. Without him. Just so you get re-introduced to your goodness, your beauty, your joy. Start from that place. And then when you start to date again, whether it’s him or anyone else.. try to find people who make you feel YOU at your very best… not scared, insecure, wondering if they even like you or if they are having sex with someone else, not those pin pricks of fear that carve out your stomach til it’s just an aching pit of desperation…
    Why not allow yourself to deserve to feel light, and sure, and positive, and confident. Then attract men into your life who allow you to explore those feelings.

    Anyway, bottom line, this guy sounds like a real creep. It feels like you deserve so much better than that, but perhaps you don’t believe that you’re worthy of it.

    Do the thirty day no contact… and just learn to love yourself. Don’t let this man stomp on your confidence for one more second. He just seems.. yuck!!

  187.  #188Veronica on November 14, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Feeling much better this morning, I’ll hiss at the coffee tin when I walk past it : P

    My urges to contact BM have become weaker – it now just feels plain unattractive of me to reach out to him when I know that it’s all leaning-forward for me. Sometimes I feel guilty wondering if it’s some power-play on my part. But deep down I just don’t feel like being in contact with him – I don’t want to have my messages responded to with so little focus on me. This is new – doing things on my time : )

  188.  #189Indigo on November 14, 2013 at 8:50 pm


    Wholeheartedly agree with what Andrea says above.

    Getting back in touch with yourself will be where your healing is, and which will slowly but surely take you away from this man and towards something better. Use this time to meditate on what your passions are, what you love to do, what feels good, and then go and do them. Take yourself out on dates, indulge yourself, pamper yourself, care for yourself. Sit with your feelings by yourself and learn to love your own company and tolerate your loneliness. Open up to others, find people who are kind and caring, talk, flirt… whatever feels good.

    Be very kind, patient and gentle on yourself.

    This guy, to me, does sound very narcissistic and yuck.

  189.  #190Emerson on November 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Hi sirens I spent the day with recycledCD and it was so much fun. I don’t expect anything from him but its nice to enjoy his company.

    I’m still feeling that empty “I don’t care” feeling about everything in general.. I feel a grieving for all that I thought would be part of my world by now….although thankful for what I have.. It’s not about possessions. I thought by now I would have family traditions established with a husband etc and have those cozy holiday feelings in the winter and the warm excitement in the summer …. I just feel numb there’s no magic anywhere.

  190.  #191Emerson on November 14, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    I feel deflated about cutecityCD and preppyCD falling off the radar…
    I held my boundaries ….

  191.  #192Emerson on November 14, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    I got some snuggle time with recycledCD and it felt really nice. I really miss sharing that with a man. I love physical affection.

  192.  #193Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    im starting to soften up some about M Cd…

    i dont feel blinded by his presence of safety and love like earlie

    i also find myself wondering and was reemphasized by my sis who said you might not hear from him again cuz he was probably so embarassed about teh not getting hard thing

    so now im like maybe i should contact him (he told me too in on of that moment where i felt non-prioritized)

    just to demonstrate im not judging him. nor that i dont want to hear from him again.

    this is not gonna help me

    the leaning back feminine energy stuff is helping me

    im gonna keep that up πŸ™‚

    i feel guilty for writing things on my FB that allude to other men and to being ‘single

    he’s one of the few CD’s on my FB and i efel worried im like im throwing it in his face as part of my pattern

    it may ‘work’ but it doesn’t feel good i noticed using that and i

    would feel better to not use that pattern anymore and breakthru to the stronger more beautiful feminine energy non strategizing or love blocking vibe

  193.  #194Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    Linda G – thanks! yes i don’t want to travel either.., i feel glad i finally got that one down – minus the experimental exceptions whcih im now ending

    im wonderign what to respond in words/scripts when a guy asks something like have i been to his city, do i have a car

    im taking that as ‘hints’ that hes gonna ask me to drive, but wondering if its my anxiety at that moment, and how to not have anxiety receving (and responding to) those words

    i notice i have so much anxiety i avoid responding,

    would it be ‘jumping ahead’ trying to control the outcome to say “yeah i do but i dont like to drive to a guy” …. i kinda thinks so

    just looking for a lil repeatable script/mindset – that kinda thing seems to helps me a lot

  194.  #195Daria on November 14, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    i feel concerned about getting stuffy sick dealing with this virus

    i guess some of the stuff i ate was so mixed it mighta gave it a leg up

    and now i feel slightly stuffy

    and i can heal this yay πŸ™‚

    and also yes men who have one particular regular other woman seem to def get me feeling sick

    and i know this

    and im receiving the message without needing to get sick

    thank u ancestors!

  195.  #196Daria on November 15, 2013 at 12:40 am

    i feel concerned about one of my CDs he sounds a bit weird on the phone, and then other times he doesnt, i feel confused if its 2 people … and also in the past this has not played out well when people sound ‘weird’ on the phone

    i dont want to feel frightened of anyone im meeting

    i feel curious about this and what the message is

  196.  #197Daria on November 15, 2013 at 1:01 am

    wow the way i heard that just turned me right off

    youre such a handsome and smart man

    youre so handsome and smart

  197.  #198Syreena on November 15, 2013 at 2:23 am


    In what way has it not turned out good in the past when they felt weird on the phone.

    Take care Daria, Sounds like your intuition warning you to me.

  198.  #199Tired on November 15, 2013 at 5:34 am

    Wow ladies, Thank you Rori, Andrea and Indigo. I can’t see the forest for the trees. I’ve had this feeling of wanting to take care of myself like you guys say and I’ve had glimpses of that peace and freedom. I just need to stay there.

    30 days will go by and I know I won’t want him anymore. Maybe that’s what I’m afraid of?

    Thank you, I needed that unbiased feedback. Have a lovely day ladies!!

  199.  #200Andrea on November 15, 2013 at 8:02 am

    Oh Tired… I can soooo feel your circumstance. I wanted to tell you that I had to put myself through that exact same thing.

    I was totally addicted to being involved with men who made me feel the way I was used to feeling… icky, insecure, needy, desperate, clinging to scraps and crumbs that fell from the table of any man who would give me attention..
    I had to take a 30 day no contact leave of absence from my last long term relationship that was hurting me. It took that time away from him for me to realize that it wasn’t him I was addicted to, it was those negative vibes, that horrible energy that was left over from an abusive past.

    Now this is a while since I’ve done that. That man and I are in a different place entirely… but I still feel the connection between us… it just doesn’t overpower my love for myself anymore. And amazingly, he goes through phases where he just doesn’t understand why he is compelled to be near me.

    I’m still single. He calls, texts, takes me on amazing dates… but in listening to my intuition, I just know that now is not the time to get back involved with him. (And that is driving him crazy)

    He is now telling me that he doesn’t understand why I am the only woman that he thinks about, even though he has plenty of opportunity with others. But it’s the change in me. I believe him now!!

    I just needed to get right with me. Something shifted during those thirty days that now has me in a completely different space.

    Two mornings ago, I had gone to bed early the night before and turned my phone off. I awoke in the morning, checked my phone and I had five different text messages, from five different men, including him. Some said, “How has your week been going?” Some said, “I miss you, do you have time to talk?” One said, “I”m looking forward to our date on Friday night.” One said, “I don’t know what it is … but something about you commands my complete attention. When will you let me take you out?”

    Now … this is not usual for me. So I was really amazed and I thought at first that someone was playing a trick on me somehow. But, it was real. I feel all sireny and yet, last night, I spent a quiet wonderful night with just myself and my daughters, and I was fully happy as well.

    I just wanted to say that Love is with in you. It really is. And maybe these icky experiences with the men in your life is really just Love’s way of saying, “Come find ME first!! I’m here. My arms are wide open for you. Give yourself to ME and I promise.. I Promise.. I will take the best care of you!”
    And maybe Love turns out to be not exactly what we thought.. but better. And it’s not the result of getting a man, but a result of relaxing into our own beautiful, joyful, safe and sanctified heart. It’s there for you. I know it is. Just relax into that space, and let it come.

  200.  #201Dominique on November 15, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Tired – There isn’t really anything more I can add which hasn’t already been said. Except that I want more for you than this. I want you to want more for your than this. You were born as a beautiful goddess vessel of love, and you still are one. You can find her again.

    Here is an article I posted this week which may help. There are links to other articles within which will help you even more with this.


  201.  #202Sirana on November 15, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Hello Sirens- I am feeling deflated and sad. I know I need to accept that H has lost a lot of feelings for me. He is still here everyday but the respect has greatly diminished. He talks to me very rudely. I know that even feeling messages will turn him to yelling. I am trying to focus on myself more but so hard to live with half of his heart.

  202.  #203Indigo on November 15, 2013 at 10:39 am


    I don’t know if this will help you, but one thing I wish I did with D was assert calm verbal boundaries and follow them up with action. I do believe it can make a man gain a tremendous amount of respect for a woman and look at her in a different way. At the very least, you’ll have your self-respect intact.

    So if he speaks to you rudely: “I don’t wish to be spoken to that way. I want to be spoken to kindly and respectfully. The next time you are rude to me, I will leave the room” and then do. His “loss of feelings” is not an excuse for him to speak to you rudely.


  203.  #204Sirana on November 15, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Indigo- I think you are correct. At a minimum I have to do that for me. Thanks!

  204.  #205Turquoise on November 15, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Hi Sirens,

    A friend of mine got divorced less than a year ago, and she already seems to be in an awesome new relationship, and they are taking about marriage and blending families. I’m really happy for her, but I can’t help but wonder again, why does it seem so easy for some women and so hard for others? Even just to meet the right person, let alone develop real feelings….

    I like this article because I often write men off because of their profiles. This has encouraged me to be more thorough…. to get to know them a little bit even if they sound like a jerk.

    The one guy I’m emailing, very cute… lives kind of far away, but we were emailing and he asked to text me, after texting off and on all day, he called me that night and we talked for over an hour. He sounds great, nice voice… educated, funny………. and here is where I’d normally IMMEDIATELY dismiss someone. He still lives in the same house with his soon to be ex. after an hour of conversation I found out that she’s leaving him for another woman, and the divorce is filed, they are waiting on finances to be resolved so he can buy a new house. My first thought was, oh he is not even close to being ready for a relationship like I want. How could he be, he hasn’t even been on his own yet. But then it occurred to me, that not every one needs years and years to feel ready to move on seriously, the way I did. Some people must recover quicker. The truth is, the distance and both of us wanting to stay in our own school districts is probably a much bigger issue than how long someone has been single. It seemed unromantic to me to let distance be a factor in finding my love. And maybe sometimes that doesn’t matter much. I just know after dating men who live near me, wow, what a difference. BUT, for CDing, learning and practice, I’m ok with keeping in touch with him…. he’s sweet, complimentary and thanked me for our really cool conversation.

    Another guy I’m emailing with sounds good, but his profile is demanding. He wants it all his way, of course…. and a lot in there about how he doesn’t want to date anyone who is involved with someone else. Normally, I’d say NEXT and move on. This time I thought about how most men probably don’t want that, they just don’t all write it. We’ve had some nice conversations, he’s looking for long term, hasn’t asked me out yet… but I’ll meet him if he does.

    I’m having a birthday dinner with Sweetheart tonight, with his parents and my sister. He came over yesterday and cut my grass, raked leaves…. looks nice and I really appreciate that he wants to do nice things for me. He’s stepping up. Took us out to dinner (my girls too) and is coming over this weekend to help me put out Christmas lights. I’m not feeling all the butterflies, but he’s nice company and it does feel good to be around him. His divorce isn’t even filed yet though, so definitely no rush on my part to be exclusive again.

  205.  #206Turquoise on November 15, 2013 at 12:04 pm


    Although I know Sweetheart would like to be. He’s mentioned our future, marriage…. perfect example I guess of someone who isn’t even out of their first marriage and ready for the next. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

  206.  #207Tired on November 15, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Dominique, Andrea – thank you. Your words and the words of others on this post have been so uplifting and encouraging…

    There’s been a new development. I do have HPV. Not the warts kind, the cancer kind. I told him. He asked if he could come see me tonight. I said yes. I guess I’m not done taking all the abuse I feel I deserve. Lay it on me!!

    But really, all of the encouragement lifts me up. We are all in process. I need to order Rori’s “Siren” ebook. I got another one of hers and it was good but maybe I wasn’t ready to hear it?

    I was a victim of sexual abuse by my brothers from 3-5 years old. It’s true, I don’t think I deserve a whole lot of good, but I’m learning. I like the peaceful feelings I have when the healing is really happening.

    What a beautiful bunch of goddesses you all are. It’s inspiring and…uplifting. That’s the word.

    I try to treat myself like I would treat my best friend, to give myself that kind of advice. I’m getting there. I just need to let go of this guy and be with me for a while. No CD’ing, no online dating, etc. Just me and my camera. We’re going to have some adventures.

    Love and blessings to you all, God bless you for your kindness to a stranger!

  207.  #208Veronica on November 15, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    I used my feeling messages with a guy who was being very vague about meeting up. No accusations or twisty passive anger/sadness/frustration – just what I didn’t like and how it feels and I just dropped meeting him. So happy with myself.

  208.  #209Dominique on November 15, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    I’m sorry Tired, I didn’t post the link to my article.

    Here it is. The links to the other articles within this article might be more applicable to your situation though.



  209.  #210Femininewoman on November 15, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Sirana breathe to calm yourself before you speak what Indigo suggested. That way you pay attention to your tone and vibe.

    A guy friend told me once when he had to talk to another male about respect, he told him I respect you and want to maintain that respect and it is difficult for me to do that when I am spoken to without respect. If I were you I would find ways to include the word respect in conversations with him, let him know verbally that you do respect and you respect yourself.

  210.  #211Veronica on November 15, 2013 at 2:57 pm


    You’ve got a camera – I don’t know the way you talk about it seems like it offers something I can’t quite describe. I have one and it’s like the more pictures I take the more of me comes out into the world. I don’t know if it’s like that for you.

  211.  #212Tired on November 15, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Dominique – thank you!! I forgot to remember to ask you for the link. πŸ™‚

    Veronica, yes, I love my camera, I love that I see the world in a way no one else does. So yeah, it’s like more of me comes out into the world. I never looked at it like that before but I love that!!

  212.  #213Millie on November 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    So I think I am going to ask mechanic if dinner the other night was a date…..I feel confused. And I think that when a man isn’t clear that “this is a date” then it probably isn’t, but I would feel better letting him know I feel confused. He may be a flirt in which there are no intentions, in which I don’t really want to continue being on that wavelength if he only sees friendship on the horizon. Sure it can grow, but I feel that I’m giving mixed signals as well as receiving them. Some clarity would help whichever direction this goes in.

  213.  #214Emerson on November 15, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    I basically feel dull about everything ….
    Not horrible…
    Just dull…
    Nothing has a “special” feeling anymore…
    I used to get a special feeling just wearing a cute outfit in the summer and getting in my car driving down the street….with some music and a slurpee…
    Or in the winter wearing cute sweaters
    Not I don’t have any feeling…

  214.  #215Tired on November 16, 2013 at 1:45 am

    He came over, we talked a little…it exhausted me, I went to bed right after he left at 9:30. I’m up now at 3 AM and the questions I’m now asking myself are how did I let myself lose so much of me for this man who gave me so little? And who wasn’t all that great and I knew I could do better but I didn’t? I knew he was the one who should have been thrilled he caught such a great catch as me and yet here I sit crying but why? Because I let myself down. I let my friends down, my family. There’s a lot of loss here, two years of my life and so much energy spent for so little. He’s got so many problems. Maybe I thought I could fix him. What was it all for?

    We said all there was to say. I had my issues too. And I got what we say we all want – closure. He spent a lot of time with me, working through the end of this, being here. I told him that what I hoped to see come of this for him was to not use and hurt people. He’s trying. I see it. But changes like that don’t happen in a day. And I have a lot of changes to make too.

    Now it’s time to rebuild. Take my 30 days and find myself. Because I am really lost this time.

    I was afraid. Am afraid. To lose. To be left. To not be appreciated for the good in me. To choose another man just like the one I divorced over 15 years ago. To settle for so little. I’m afraid I’m just stupid. And I don’t want men to be this important to me! I want to be important to me. I want the important things in life to be important to me. Like friends and family. People.

    I’m afraid I’m not as good a person as I want to think I am.

    I’m a writer. A photographer and an artist. A people person. I lost all of that, voluntarily let it go, let me go, pushed myself over this cliff. Now I’m hanging on a branch for dear life, not only wondering why this happened but knowing that I’ll be okay because I didn’t hit the rocks and I have this branch. There’s always something to be thankful for.

    And I’m sincerely thankful all for the love and acceptance I’ve felt here. I think the most important thing to take away from this is to never lose sight of what’s important to me, no matter what. To not compromise to the extent that I lose my whole self. Because that is what I did.

    I don’t even know right now. I need some sleep. And time. Because I believe that everything happens for a reason and that time, and faith, heals all wounds. Goodnight and God’s blessings to you all.

  215.  #216Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 2:37 am

    I feel like I am efforting a lot with cdb in order to keep the peace

    then I feel resentful that i’m efforting and it takes the slightest thing to upset me

    He is a withdrawer and although he says he does it for his own well-being I feel it as punishment

    I feel his energetic field so acutely I know when he is warm and open to me and when he is shut down

    He is shutting down a lot and i feel sad and angry when he does not remain open to me

    I effort (try to GET him to be open to me) get angry – explode with how much pressure it feels like – feel criticised like nothing I do feels good enough

    I also am trying to lean back but I need help with this! Sometimes I take myself away but I feel the division between us and its so LOUD in the silence…I don’t now how to lean back and remain open and still feel authentic – it either feels stepford wifey (no conflict in order to please him) or shut down…

    when there is not all this moodiness, coldness, anger, resentment, expectation etc etc I feel supported, enjoyed, relaxed, warm

    I need lots of affection (which gets withdrawn) I need to feel that he enjoys me (when mostly I am hearing criticism) I need fun and calm and togtherness

    UGH! He does not feel appreciated enough no matter how many times a day I tell him – we are both in a trap of major easy triggering

    I feel angry that he does not seem to be taking responsibility for his own emotional reactions…it all seems to get projected onto me…

    Any advice from anyone appreciated?

    April Rose – Indigo I’ve been reading some of your posts and identifying…egg shells πŸ™ the misery of a withdrawing/witholding man…

    I don’t think CDB is narcissistic or toxic but we both seem to have our individual issues right up in full throttle – It feels moody adolescent – it feels pointless to be in such conflict

  216.  #217Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 2:50 am

    He has been trying too – he’s been lovely with me back to work supporting me with cooking lovely meals and making the house lovely and other expressions of affection and i demonstrate my appreciation

    but i respond more strongly to energy rather than action and sometimes the actions feel conditional – based on whether i behave in a pleasing way rather than just as i am πŸ™

    I dont know often what is an old script of mine and what is intuitive knowing…

  217.  #218Cris on November 16, 2013 at 3:09 am


    (((Sophie))) only advice I can give is breathing and let the things be, seems that is not much but for me, at least, is difficult

  218.  #219Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 3:25 am

    thank you Cris – yes a lot more let things be will work well for me I think – as you say not easy! I feel like i’m left containing all these unspoken emotions … I need to find ways of managing that without always bringing that up to him or allowing them to fester and become explosive…when i do do that it does work…im working on it…

    it helps when i remember everything is transitory and stop clinging on to stories

    I just want to be allowed to be me and he just wants to be allowed to be him…

  219.  #220Syreena on November 16, 2013 at 3:56 am

    Millie did he ask you out and then pay?
    That’s a date. X

  220.  #221Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 3:56 am

    Sophie it sounds like your rhythms are different and maybe you need to take a lot at whether you can live with the differences for the long haul. Maybe you are not a match and you might need someone whose rhythm is closer to yours?

  221.  #222Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 4:06 am

    RE 213 Millie you sound like a woman. Wanting a label on things. Wanting things in a pretty box and tied with a bow.

    How about “Put your back to the moment that just passed……..Face where you want to be”. How about “Surrender to the impossibility of knowing what’s around every corner.”

    Whether he will say it was a date or not a date, then what?

  222.  #223Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 4:07 am

  223.  #224Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 4:16 am

    221 FW – Thank you yes I have been wondering that πŸ™

    I don’t know if we are dealing with unresolvable incompatibilities or just our own fears (we do have many compatible rhythms and also many that are not…) … I don’t know about the long haul – there certainly will be no long haul if things don’t settle down … I don’t know if its incompatibility and not going to work or if its turn-around-able…

  224.  #225Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 4:28 am

    Sophie it is good to see you accept not knowing.

    I have been revisiting this meditation

    “Here is the Meditation and the Intention:

    I intend to turn toward love, affection, attention, cherishing, and away from the idea that any one person holds that for me. I intend to turn toward feeling good and away from feeling bad. I intend to turn toward my future and away from my past. Toward pleasure and away from pain.

    Toward happy movies and away from tragedies. To whoever’s laughing and away from whoever’s moody. I intend to allow myself to be pulled forward. I intend to step forward. I intend to use my gifts, show my heart, and never give up. I intend to live as if I believe that the mountain, the beach, the lake, all my dreams are real”

  225.  #226Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 4:39 am

    225 πŸ™‚ yes! yes! Yes! that absolutely is my philosophy (though I’m a work in progress)

    I really do have many awarenesses these days and in this relationship that I never did before

    1) I intend to be happy
    2) I am responsible for my happiness
    3) focus on myself
    4) try to speak my feelings – try not to blame and attack
    5) focus on the positive and show gratitude and appreciation
    6) diffuse drama, try to turn away from it, try not to add momentum
    7) protect, love and nurture my sense of self
    8) maintain and take responsibility for my own life; socially and professionally
    9) believe in my right to happiness and to having my needs met in whatever form this may be
    10) not look to one man to meet all my needs – take responsibility also for meeting my own needs…
    11) nurture self-compassion

    I DO believe the lake, the mountains and all my dreams are Real! πŸ™‚

    Beautiful meditation – copied and pasted – thank you

  226.  #227Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 5:06 am


    A withdrawing or withholding man is not easy to deal with. In my own situation I could not do it, but then I think my situation was a lot more extreme than yours. Although, like you say, there were times when he was warm and open, times when he made an effort for me, certainly times when affection flowed. There is no question in my mind that the man I was with was deeply dysfunctional, so maybe your situation is different.

    One thing I would recommend is getting to a place where you can speak your boundaries calmly, dispassionately even, firmly and with feeling, possibly with your hand on your heart, so that he is in no doubt of how his moodiness/coldness/withdrawal affects you. I do believe that it’s important not to let the situation worsen as it affects the flow of the relationship.

    Let him know that you also reasonably consider his feelings, and the factors in his life influencing him, that you are also here for him, but please don’t let yourself get miserable, please don’t let it fester.

    *Hugs* to you xx

  227.  #228Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 5:11 am


  228.  #229Syreena on November 16, 2013 at 7:26 am

    What do you want millie, to go out with men as friends?

    Or to go on dates?

    They ask, then you choose if that’s what you want.
    So if a man asks you somewhere and you want clarity, that is the time to ask. Are you asking me out on a date or as a friend, then you get to accept the invitation or decline.

    If you feel more than friendship for this man and he wants to ask you out as a friend then it wont wor

  229.  #230Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 7:38 am

    Thank you Indigo

    wonderful words of wisdom x when i have been able to do that (especially lots of understanding about what he’s going through) i literally feel him opening up and softening and can feel that he hears me and i feel connected again…it seems to take him a long time to be ready for those types of conversations though that’s when the flare ups and festerings happen..

    i am trying every time not to let myself be miserable x sometimes i’m not sometimes i am πŸ™‚ x i won’t forget to keep trying…

    hugs to you too Indigo xx

  230.  #231Andrea on November 16, 2013 at 9:21 am

    My date last night with Dennis: He’s a factory worker and it shows. He looks hard and ragged and older than his age, but strong. He met me in the lobby of my apartment building so that he could open the door of his truck for me. That was so nice, but his truck was a dump, like a cigarette ash tray. It was smoky and dingy and smelled awful. And he had a handicap cutout on his dash.
    He was so nervous and told me how all day his belly was doing flip flops. That he hadn’t felt this way in such a long time. That he was coming alive again. All this… and we’d only just sat in his truck.
    He took me to dinner. He’d researched the restaraunt before hand. Of course, opening doors and paying all along the way. Complimenting me, treating me like a lady, and being very respectful.
    After dinner we both like Karoake so we found a place to sing. He’s good and he’s very complimentary toward me as well. We had drinks at a bar. While he was singing I used my card to start the tab and he came back to the bar and said, “No.. no… don’t put your card up there. I’ll pay for this.”

    Then he pulled me aside and showed me that he had purchased tickets to a concert, The Band Perry, is coming to town. He’d purchased not only two tickets for he and I, but also two more for each of my daughters.

    All of this… on the first date. He treated me exceptionally well. But he is unhealthy, wore dentures, smoked like crazy in his truck.

    When he went to kiss me at the end of the date, I just couldn’t do it.

    I feel sad on the one hand. I feel kind of offended a little bit too that he was so confident that he and I were a match. I feel bitchy and materialistic because I want to say… REally?? You think this is the kind of life I would settle for? Really? A run down truck, a run down body, a smoke stack?
    Then I change my feelings to guilt, “How dare I think that way about another human being who treated me so well.”

    But when we tried to dance, I just wanted to get away from him. He held my hand and I just felt like a dead fish was laying in my palm, for all the lack of chemistry. He went to kiss me and I felt like throwing up.

    Mainly, I’m feeling regret about my dishonesty on this whole date. I wish I would have had the balls to say, right away, as soon as I got into his truck… “No, this is not going to work.”
    Or I wish I would have been more of a bitch and stood up for my own comfort level by saying, “Excuse me, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t smoke in your truck, while I’m in here too.”
    Or when he showed me the concert tickets I wish I would have been able to say, “What?? That’s pretty presumptuous of you to think that my daughters and I will want to go with you to this concert.”

    It was hard. All of that was hard because he seemed so vulnerable with me. Here he is a virtual stranger and I was more worried about protecting him and his feelings, than I was about living authentically in MY moment. I feel deceptive. I feel ick!

    He’s already called me this morning to say what a wonderful time he had. I don’t ever want to see him again. My mouth tastes wierd from all the smoke I inhaled last night being near him. I can’t keep attracting these kinds of men… they are the men who would give me the shirt off their back, but they aren’t taking care of themselves. I feel like they want to use the excitement of getting to know me, and having me in their lives, to distract them from the hard work that they need to put into themselves in order to get well.

    I feel used. (strange huh?)

  231.  #232BlueRedLove on November 16, 2013 at 9:48 am

    I just did the math…I have 7 dudes after me: 2 from POF, 1 from from match, 2 found me on Facebook, 1 is a set-up by a family friend, and Navy, is the dude with the girlfriend. All of these dudes, except the one I met in the flesh from the start, nit in cyberspace, seem pretty socially awkward to me. All seem nice enough. Most are pretty lazy when it comes to pursuing me. Ick. They are all really feminine in that way, again except for Navy. But, for obvious reasons, I am leaning waaaaay back from him and his drama. I haven’t written anyone off yet but I feel inclined to just focus on me.

  232.  #233Millie on November 16, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Syreena—he paid both times. I know that men have different styles of approaching women, no two men are alike, so I don’t want to assume anything. I am open to going out with men as friends, but I like this guy and yes I should have asked him right in the moment it was happening. I was trying to let him show me but I also get the feeling he isn’t sure.

    Femininewoman–I hear you on the pretty bow and labeling. When I imagine myself as a siren, I imagine that a siren would not dwell or think twice on a man that isn’t pursuing her clearly. But at the same time I feel like I missed out that night on telling him some feeling messages that would have showed him how I felt. For example, my excitement went from a level 10 to a 1 when he asked me to meet him there. I wish I would have out that in a feeling message. He looked like he was going to stand up and hug me when I got there, but he must have second guessed himself and didn’t cuz I just a little body jerk. Inviting a friend to join us made me feel sad. I wanted to be on a date with him, but who invites another woman on a date? The goodbye felt mechanical, like both of us were holding back. I def was holding back at that point. I wanted to leave cuz I felt disappointed. He asks me what I’m going to do now, I said go home. I mean what else was I gonna do. Then afterwards he text me saying I’m so good for not staying out. I’m thinking, was that an option? Cuz I don’t remember being asked to…it’s not about labels, it’s about miscommunication.

  233.  #234Millie on November 16, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Andrea–I feel the same way of wishing I had been assertive enough with his I felt rather than being in the place of “what does he think this is?”

  234.  #235Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Millie okay. Still I feel a certain need for wanting some kind of closure in your writing. How about just dropping all thoughts around him and just saying no next time he invites you out. Or telling him “it felt like a friend vibe” last time you went out with him and right now you are only focused on romance and dating men who want that with you?

  235.  #236Millie on November 16, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Femininewoman–he is a mutual friend so I will see him again in social settings so I don’t want to alienate him or completely cross out friendship. But I agree with you that next time he asks me out or starts up a conversation I want to share my confusion. Hoe about this: “i feel confused about something. Coukd you help me clear it up? When we went to dinner the first time, it felt like a date. I was really excited to see you again, but the other night felt like just friends having dinner. Either way, I’d like to feel we are on the same page, what do you think?”

  236.  #237Femininewoman on November 16, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Millie I might be wrong but it just feels like too much pressure. That would not be alienating him. That would be moving your attention away from him and putting it on your life. Can you trust that if he wants more with you he will show it in his actions and say it with his words? When a man is clear he wants you usually there is no confusion. You wanting to know that you are on the same page tells that in your mind you want more. I believe if you have to ask a man that, especially a man who you are not living with, it is time to take a step back.

    It is almost like you are asking him to friend zone you. When you can flip the tables and friend zone. That as far as I am concerned is one way to amp up the attraction. Friendzone him and see what happens.

  237.  #238Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 12:47 pm


    How about next time he asks you out, laughing and saying flirtatiously “well, I’d only like to go if it’s a date”. That will give him an opening to clear things up, and if he says it’s not a date you can just wink or giggle and say “too bad!”

  238.  #239Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    he didn’t talk to me all day now he’s gone out all night x i feel distraught, panicky and bereft x it feels like my last horrendous boyfriend x i want him to leave and never come back πŸ™

  239.  #240Millie on November 16, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Femininewoman– I feel like I’ve been blunt with men like that before and you are right… If you have to ask, usually you already have the answer. It also doesn’t feel good to me to pressure a man or show that I want something from them. I agree about stepping back and maybe friend zoning him for now is the way to go…. If he wants more he will let me know in his own way…right? I already feel like I’ve been over thinking this too much and I don’t want that old habit entering this new “relationship”.

  240.  #241Sophie on November 16, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    he came back to talk to me for a bit x it calmed me down x i dont know if i can have relationships with anyone x it activates trauma responses in me πŸ™ especially feeling abandoned mid conflict and that they are unreachable i feel panicky attack panic and i get gasping for breath x ive always been like that since i was small my mum used to have to try and get me to breathe normally πŸ™ then it seems like im being dramatic but im just in extreme distress x i try all the things but sometimes my head really does go x maybe i just really need to be on my own…

  241.  #242Millie on November 16, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Indigo–I appreciate your suggestion, but that would not be truthful to how I feel. I’d still like to see him even if its friends only, I just want to know how he sees me. I realize that I feel like I would react differently to things if we were dating vs just being friends. That is something for me to think about…. Like if a friend sends me a flirty text I know how to take it, as friendly, but if a guy I’m dating sends me a flirty text, I will think he likes me…..

  242.  #243Liquid Light on November 16, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    If he paid then its definitely a date.

  243.  #244BlueRedLove on November 16, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    I was scrolling through old posts and I found something amazing that Daria wrote. Maybe it will help you too. It’s my new affirmation: I bring the light. I bring the good. I am a Goddess. I DO MAGIC. All of my acts are divine.” I have been saying this all day and I already got a marriage proposal from a stranger and an offer to make a baby from a really close guy friend. Lol. I wonder what I will attract tomorrow. Thanks,Daria!

  244.  #245Dominique on November 16, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Tired – 215 – All of these thoughts and feelings you’re having are thoughts and feelings most all of us have or have had before. So you are SO not alone in this.

    I think you know that it’s all lies, that you ARE beautiful, all of you. Naturally there’s always room to learn more, expand, blossom even bigger, yet you are also perfect just as you are.

    You need your art as much as the air you breathe. Please don’t put this aside for anyone. There is little more healing and passion filling as the arts, any kind of arts.

    Love to you.


  245.  #246Dominique on November 16, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Sophie – 216 – This article may help, as will the linked articles within. Not exact;y what you’re dealing with, yet closely related.


  246.  #247Dominique on November 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm

  247.  #248Millie on November 16, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I feel a bit now like I’m plucking the petals of a flower except instead of “he loves me, he loves me not” I’m saying “it’s a date, no it’s not, it’s a date, no it’s not.” I am getting lost in wondering what it was….which is not where my energy should be.

    Regardless…I need to focus on me and what’s in front of me. He hasn’t contacted me today, so I’m going to go about my business. Next time he initiates anything I will speak authentically and without fear.

  248.  #249Linda G on November 16, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Blueredlove, I also love Daria’s self proclamation

    I feel compelled to tell someone;
    The man I met online who is a published poet, wrote a poem for me which is being published next month

    Our exchanges are so romantic, I use only brief feeling messages to respond to everything he expresses to me.

    He just sent me another poem, based on a poetic feeling message I wrote in response to him

    I know we have never met, he lives far away, and in Rori’s terms, he is imaginary.
    But this is how love should feel, this is what my dates so far have been missing for me

    Thanks for letting me share this, I have no one else to tell who can appreciate this

  249.  #250Olivia on November 16, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    @dominique – not sure if you remember but I posted a note/query on your blog about my man. And his uncertainty with his job making me feel insecure about our future and like old bad stuff from the past….emotional abuse I suffered, etc. and I resolved (feeling good after reading one of your articles) to trust my instincts and wait for a bit to see what developed. And it was the right way to go! He got a new job and it was like a gush of moving towards me all at once. And things keep getting better! But what really makes me feel good is the trusting in myself part… πŸ™‚ @daria – I take an interest in what your write and you’ve mentioned at least twice your desire for girlfriends to connect with. I encourage you to be open to new friends! I had a phase with ill fitting female friends and now the past couple years that I’ve found my “sisters” I cannot emphasize how amazing this has been for my life! The wonderful intimacy of friendship I share with them is so great. Sending love to everyone else!!!!!

  250.  #251Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 5:34 pm


    Your post hit me because of the way I am feeling at the moment.

    I had hoped D and I could be friends, or at least friendly and normal when we see each other out, which we occasionally do as we have a few mutual friends. But it is not to be.

    It seems I have to avoid every gathering that he’s at, and if he shows up, leave. I know this now, but I didn’t before and have now been hurt a couple of times by what I can only describe as very cold, ignoring behavior. There was no “hi, how are you” pleasant chatting and a hug, I was pretty much blanked. It was very obvious. He must be very angry with me, or… I really don’t know. Like I said, he is dysfunctional. I really can’t understand that at all.

    I found it to be immature and it was very, very hurtful. Totally put me off balance and affected my ability to enjoy the evening in a huge way. So now I will have to avoid those occasions, which is not ideal, but I have realized it is far better than letting my precious self endure that.

    It made me really sad, because of the needless hurtfulness of it all. But, I suppose if D wasn’t needlessly hurtful, we would still be together.

  251.  #252CurvySiren10 on November 16, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    (((Indigo))))~ that feels sad to read but also makes me feel very good to hear you taking care of yourself so nicely. xo

  252.  #253Syreena on November 16, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Andrea, I believe we keep getting sent the same until we learn our lesson and move on.

    You have your answers.
    You don’t want to be in a romantice relationship with someone who has any addictions.
    Or you could say who smokes.
    Even if he stops smoking there will be other bigger problems underneath.
    I believe you know this you sais as much in a round about way in your post.
    You just know.
    Trust what you know.
    It is all in your post if you re read it You have all the answers in you.
    Rather than trying to be polite nice not offend talk yourself out of it.
    Trust what you know.

    You say you feel used.
    How are you allowing yourself to be used.
    By being there, if you are not there you can’t be used.

    Good luck on your continuing journey.

  253.  #254Millie on November 16, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    I just remembered a story that gives me some clarity….
    (Also to note…the man I’ve been speaking about is 41 and I am 27.) A few months ago I met a man swing dancing. I thought he was just being friendly and he asked me to take a dance class with him and be his partner. He also asked me to lunch beforehand and paid. I didn’t think it was a date at all because I wasn’t interested. After that we met for a couple other dances, he paid for my drink, but I didn’t think anything of it. Then all of a sudden he asks me to go to the park with him for a picnic. He packs this amazing picnic, brings backgammon and wine…. At that point I ask him how old he is and he is in his forties. The whole “date” was friendly but I never felt the need to ask what was happening. He emailed me after saying he really likes me and hopes his age didnt scare me away, but that he is interested in pursuing a relationship with me. Wow….. I told him thank you for making his intentions clear ( cuz really I wasn’t sure but I just went with it. I thought he was a good dancer and a nice guy) I ended up telling him I wasn’t interested and he still left it open for me if I changed my mind.

    I’m glad I thought of this story… Because it shows that when a man is ready to make his intentions, if there is any, he will when the time is right for him. All along I was just myself and didn’t question him at all. He never outright said “this is a date” and looking back if I had asked… It would have been weird but I didn’t really care if it was or not. I liked getting to know him and we still meet up for dances now.

    I know it’s different with every guy, but doing nothing in that situation felt good. And he came forward when he felt like it. So maybe this new guy is just getting to know me before he makes any clear intention….. If there is one. He obviously likes me…so ya just wanted to share that story.

  254.  #255Luzydel on November 16, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    So while doing some Facebook stalking πŸ˜‰ I saw “S” picture of his wedding. Well, he got married right away after (7 months) breaking up with me (got engaged in august and married in october last year)… He needed a green card and I wanted to take my time to make sure it was me he wanted more that the green card (but it wasn’t). I didn’t know he was illegal in the US until after 4 months of dating.

    I feel many things now; angry and sad and frustrated that I haven’t met a stable man to have a stable relationship with. I don’t know if what I feel is jealousy because I do not want him and I know I may upset some people, but she is not someone that makes me feel jealous. But what I can see in her is that she really wanted that… to be married; I didn’t that much. She is better for him that I am because she wont question his reasons for marrying her like I would have if it was me. Then I see she is obese and not attractive and I make negative comments about it and then I feel bad because I should not put her down to feel better about me; especially when I do not really want him.

    But these feelings are not about them! They are about me and my own confusions of what really want! Sometimes I hate the stupidity and hypocrisy of courtship and dating. I feel sad and lonely because it would be nice to have someone right now with me that want me more than just my body! I am angry because I know I am attractive and turn heads, but cannot get a man to get close to my heart and have feelings for me! I need to choose better men, but the one’s I end up liking are users, who want me to solve their problems and think I am some sex kitten and I hate them when they only think I am hot, but not smart and compassionate and caring.

    Why do I settle for men I do not REALLY want?

  255.  #256Dinah on November 16, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Ok beautiful Sirens, I could really do with your help.

    I’ve been with my beau almost two years and have been using all the Rori tools and rules since Day 1. Practicing her work was really what got us together in the first place and I’ve seen the awesome results in terms of him being the one to lead and want to take the relationship further. It’s all felt utterly awesome. Even when issues inevitably come up, I’ve used feeling messages and it’s all completely resolved with no conflict or bad feeling.

    One repeating issue that has come up, however, has been as a result of the leaning back tool. For example, every now and then he complains that I never call him. I’ve responded with “It doesn’t feel good to call” etc, and that’s that. Until he complains again a few weeks later. Then I get frustrated that we’re having the same conversation again… so I say “I feel really frustrated that we’re having this conversation. I just don’t like to initiate phone calls. It doesn’t feel good” And that’s that……

    So tonight, we have a really lovely date, everything feels good, it’s all warm and yummy. We’re traveling back and talking as though we’re going back to his place, which we usually do. Context, we live very close to each other – one street away – but tend to go to his more than mine. There’s no particularly deep reason behind this, only that a) I’m doing the whole leaning back thing so I’m not going to say “Ooh, come back to mine”, I’m just going with the flow and the flow naturally seems to go to his, and b) he hasn’t met my housemate yet, so it feels a bit weird. In fact, he was the one who said it felt weird to come back to mine, ‘cos he might bump into her in the middle of the night when he went to the bathroom or something, and that would be awkward. So the obvious solution to that would be to introduce them, but frankly I hardly ever see my housemate as we have totally different working schedules so we’re like ships passing in the night. There’s just never been an opportunity to introduce them in the 4 or 5 months I’ve been living here.

    So, on the train on the way back tonight, he says “How come we never go back to yours? Is there something I’m missing? Is there a problem?” I feel kinda stumped and taken off-guard and I don’t know what to say. Trying to work with the Rori Raye method, so I say something like, “I don’t know what to say. I guess it feels weird to bring you back when you haven’t met my housemate”. So he goes something like, “Well, why haven’t I met her? Are you ashamed of me? Don’t you think she’ll like me?” And now I’m starting to feel attacked and interrogated, but I don’t want to use those words as-per Rori, so I’m fumfing around, not knowing what to say, not knowing what I feel, and his questions are still coming. Then *awkward silence*

    The awkward silence builds, but I’m working with the tools, elevator down into my pelvis, touching things etc. And he moves towards me, touches me, and I’m an invitation, I melt into his touch. But I’m still not saying anything, ‘cos I don’t know what to say.

    On the walk home, he asks if I’m pissed off with him. I say, “I feel frustrated that this conversation about where we sleep keeps coming up” He says, “Well, I feel frustrated too”, and starts walking up ahead of me, obviously angry. I guess the Rori tool at this point might be the Turnaround, and therefore to walk away. But we both live in the same direction, so physically turning around means going away from where I live! Therefore I end up walking behind him (I have a twisted ankle at the moment so I’m a bit slow) and am unintentionally following him.

    Anyway, trying to wrap this long story up, we end up parting separate ways. I say “This doesn’t feel good, I feel like going home”, he’s angry with me and tells me not to take things so seriously. I walk away and go home, and now I’m in bed feeling angry and frustrated and also very sad because we’ve never had this kind of horrible edgy thing before.

    Ever since working with Rori’s stuff, I’ve noticed all the things that women do wrong and how we push men away, and I’ve thought, “I’m so grateful that I have a good man who can do the relationship dance, and I can let him” But tonight we’ve parted on a street corner, both angry at each other, and I’m kicking myself because I feel like I’ve missed something, I’ve failed somehow because I didn’t give the right answer or open up enough…… I don’t know where it went wrong. This has never happened with us before and I don’t know what I should do/not do.

    One thing I do know is that I feel very angry right now. I feel angry that he kept pushing at me about this thing, wanting to know why we don’t come back to my place more often, and I’m angry that he was angry with my response – which was basically “I don’t know what to say”

    I love what Rori said about the amount of anger you feel towards a man is in direct proportion to how much effort you’re putting in. Is that my problem? Did I put too much effort in somewhere? I’m not sure. It feels to me that this situation has come from his anger that *I* don’t lean forward enough. I don’t call him, I don’t invite him over……

    What do you do with that? When a man gets angry because you’re not leaning in, initiating, paying the bill etc (that’s come up too…)

    Help! How I feel right now is that if/when he calls me tomorrow (pretty likely he will call as he’s a Good Guy) I don’t want to pick up. I feel like closing off and doing the whole ‘ignoring’ thing, like he has to really work to get me back. But that’s not much of an Invitation. And he’s angry too, and maybe he’s right. Maybe I was wrong, and I should have just invited him back to my place. I don’t know. I’m very confused – any insights, dear Sirens?


  256.  #257Millie on November 16, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    Dinah, this guy and your relationship sound pretty amazing. In my opinion he’s leaning forward a lot, he wants to spend time with you at your place and meet your roomate. The reason for him having not thus far is because you’ve been leaning back…but he’s leaning so forward why not lean forward to meet him and instead of pulling back and retreating…. Say “ok I’d love for us to spend time at my place. My roomate has a crazy schedule, but lets plan a night to introduce you. ” what’s wrong with that? I understand you not wanting to invite him over, but the man wants to come over! He wants to be with you in your space, he’s initiating that…. Let him. Saying you don’t know clearly frustrated him because he doesn’t know what to do now. He may feel a bit shut out…..

  257.  #258Veronica on November 16, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Indigo – I’m sorry things went that way

  258.  #259Veronica on November 16, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Someone posted an article on fb and it was as though I had snapped out of focusing on the loss. There wasn’t anything particularly amazing about this article. But the effect was huge – I could feel all of my being return to myself and I had a direction. It all started with the idea in the article that girls have expectations, women have standards – again it’s not anything in the article but rather its effect on me. It was that the values I cared about were being validated and appreciated. That felt awesome because now I want to take even better care of myself.

    The man who I had told that smoking was an issue for me replied with much understanding. I could sense his frustration. I felt amazing though, I felt like a woman goddess.

  259.  #260Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    CurvySiren – nice to *see* you. It made me feel very sad. Thank you for the hugs.

    Love to you x

  260.  #261Indigo on November 16, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Thank you Veronica xxx

  261.  #262SHAHRZAD on November 16, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    how can i have your email dear Rori?
    meanwhile i have serious problem and i need your help urgently.
    thanks and regards

  262.  #263Sophie on November 17, 2013 at 2:13 am

    Dominique – thank you – recurring themes – I really need some time to process and absorb this article – I feel just like I’m back in my family of origin

    – feeling like that has pretty high stakes for me it led to complete heart shut down, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness

    – I don’t know if I stay and heal! or run as fast as I can!

    – I am getting much, much better at self compassion and self love and not beating myself up so much

    but there’s still much more to do…like today I have a lot to do for myself professionally and with my health but all these intense emotional states keep me from being able to focus and give the energy I need to things that will positively serve me – I tend to beat myself up about that but I’m going to try not to today and just do what I can do

    Indigo (((hugs))) ‘needlessly hurtful’ – yes I never understand that either πŸ™

  263.  #264Syreena on November 17, 2013 at 3:49 am

    Luzydel. You didn’t settle, you saved yourself and got out of there. Well done.

    The warning signs were more than likely there earlier that is all. And you most likely ignored them or talked yourself out of them.

  264.  #265Syreena on November 17, 2013 at 3:59 am

    You doged a bullet.

  265.  #266Femininewoman on November 17, 2013 at 4:05 am

    Dinah the way I read it is him trying to say he is human. He needs some encouragement. Men are about action and he is specifically asking you to take some action. If he is always initiating calls he has shown you that he is willing to do that. I believe he would be thrilled to bits if he receives one from you. He is invested and committed so as far as I am concerned I don’t see you initiating once in a while disrupting the relationship balance.

    Aside from what he says about him sleeping over, how do you feel about it? It seems what he said affected your decision and now you are stuck in your ways. Why not just invite him over? Let him experience that he can influence you and that you want him. Experiment. See what it creates. Do you believe that after 2 years changing the pattern of behavior or what you say would destroy the relationship?

  266.  #267Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 4:19 am


    So with you there on getting better at the self-love part. Sometimes I feel like I fall off the wagon 50 million times, but I keep re-dedicating myself to it and that is what is important.

  267.  #268Dinah on November 17, 2013 at 4:40 am

    Thank you Millie and Femininewoman for your comments – they are both very helpful.

    Femininewoman, yeah I guess I do feel nervous about disrupting the relationship balance and flow of energy between us. It’s all been going so well, marriage is on the table, and I feel that using Rori’s tools are what’s got us to such a secure and committed place. I don’t want to rock the boat by leaning forward in it, but you’re right that initiating every now and then as he wants me to probably wouldn’t damage the relationship.

    When it comes to him staying over, I do feel a bit uncomfortable about it. Partly because he hasn’t met my housemate, and also because it feels like it’s more her place than mine. She’s lived here ten years and is very settled – in a way I guess I’m more a lodger than equal housemate. But that shouldn’t preclude me from having him over – I do pay half the rent after all!

    I guess I’ll call him today and also talk to my housemate about finding a time when they can meet.

    Thanks again for your help! All insights are gratefully received.

    Love xxx

  268.  #269Femininewoman on November 17, 2013 at 4:54 am

    Dinah I would talk to the housemate about him coming over to see what her vibe would be around that.

    It also seems to me that your negative voices are talking you out of feeling comfortable in your place. She might be there longer term but obviously need a housemate or you would not be there. I would babystep into using the place equally and bring up conversations about using additional space. Seems like you are cringing in a crevice to be accepted and liked. I would practice intimacy with her by talking about things.

  269.  #270Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 6:20 am

    I had such a great talk with my mom this morning. Talking with my mom almost always makes me feel much better, she’s really able to make me feel strong and encouraged in such a solid way.

    She had a long talk with me about protecting myself from putting myself in situations that I know are going to hurt me. I was talking about the frustration I feel with being tender-hearted and so sensitive, where I feel like these hurtful situations knock me for a six and affect me so much. And she was saying that that is the way that I am, that is the way that I was made, and I am not the sassy, street smart type and never will be, I am me, and I was made with great gifts and to accomplish a great purpose in this life, and that I need to protect and nurture that. We were talking about the party that I went to last night, which I didn’t expect D to be at, but he was, and it hurt me so very much.

    My mom gave me some great advice for turning my thoughts away from him, and really leaving him alone, for my sake, not his, and protecting my heart. It was great.

  270.  #271Lisa on November 17, 2013 at 7:48 am

    @Indigo I find my interest in Narcissism fascinating also… and a relief b/c it does really play on the other partner’s emotions and well being… and to not take it personally… sounds like a great book… <3

    @Elsie Great to hear from you… <3 {{{hugs}}} interesting in how time does reveal things, I agree… and yet for me that sometimes feels the hardest…

    @Indigo your mom sounds like a very supportive and wonderful mom… very fortunate…

    @Daria good to see you back… I've been wondering how you are… <3


  271.  #272Sophie on November 17, 2013 at 8:05 am

    ((Indigo)) your mum sounds lovely – how wonderful that you have someone who understands that about you and supports you to be yourself

    I feel proud of myself today as I got up and did all the things I needed to do to move forward with my goals and I took care of all of the domestic things I needed to do

    I could have easily stayed in bed! I feel quite emotionally disassociated today…I feel like lots of trust has been lost between CDB and me – I can’t speak for him but on my side that’s how I feel

  272.  #273Millie on November 17, 2013 at 8:05 am

    I woke up feeling….. Thinking….. I don’t want to be single anymore. As I lay in bed drinking coffee, looking at magazines with holiday couples…. I feel like I have everything in life but a man. I have never been with someone during the holidays. I wonder how that would feel…..

  273.  #274Sophie on November 17, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Veronica I like reading your comment – it felt light and easy – I smiled πŸ™‚

  274.  #275Lisa on November 17, 2013 at 8:17 am

    @Millie {{{hugs}}}} I wish that for you too! <3 tears….. come down….

    I too feel that way…


  275.  #276Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 8:29 am

    The holidays can put so much pressure on us, it isn’t real

    I am feeling caged in. Every time I go on line on a dating site, I feel like I am being watched and monitored by the guys who always seem to be lying in wait.
    I can’t spend endless hours, even minutes emailing texting back and forth with no meetings lined up. Then I get huffiness….

    I need a new venue. Where do you girls meet our guys? I don’t work and the meet ups are limited or my age group, same people, blah blah blah

    Any dating sites I should know about?

  276.  #277Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Indigo, your Mom sounds lovely. Having unconditional love and support from the closest person you can possibly have, and they understand you. Glorious. This is your rock, she is

  277.  #278Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:43 am

    ive been sick and taking such great care of myself yay!

    and my powers of belief change are coming back…

    and im feeling happy

  278.  #279Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Linda G – i got the idea from Rori to be kinda ‘business’ about getting to the first meeting

    so pretty much as soon as i feel like id want to get a call instead of an email, i say so

    “i dont want to be online so long… ive got to go now… i’d feel open to talk on the phone… im at 555 5555”

    then i dont answer any more messages from that man


    this saves me so much time and frustration!

  279.  #280Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:47 am

    i got from Rori because nothing is really happening until the first meeting so we take a business approach with all these men and our goal is getting to that first meeting ASAP

  280.  #281Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:48 am

    i use POF and ive met hundreds of men this way πŸ™‚

  281.  #282Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Lisa thanks πŸ™‚

  282.  #283Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Thank you, Daria

    The site I am on is so random that 90% of the guys who contact me are unacceptable
    The rest are too far away

  283.  #284Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 9:06 am

    I have just finished reading about how every setback is life’s way of clearing the path for something good and new to develop

  284.  #285Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:27 am

    wow Olivia πŸ™‚ that sounds like it would feel so lovely!

  285.  #286Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Blue Red Love – wow i feel so happy! hehehe!!

    I feel surprised I wrote that, and yes it is ME πŸ™‚ it feels powerfully attractive

  286.  #287Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Linda G – what about openging up POF or Match

  287.  #288Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Syreena – turning out not so good when they were did not feel good on the phone:

    whew actually in REAlly not feel good ways, like this one drunk guy who Grabbed me… it felt so scary

    or else they turned out to be rude, or not mentally healthy in a way that i could handle

    one guy who i argued with online, i went to visit in Florida thinknig in person it wouldnt happen, it did and he found my dad’s number and texted hima lot, changed my trip, was verbally blaming abusive


    so basically in teh worst way

    thats why i dont meet up with men who sound weird on the phone anymore (not that i ever did meet up with them much, just a few experiments to check what was right for me)

  288.  #289Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:43 am

    right now im only focused on romance and open to men who want that with me

  289.  #290Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Hi Lisa πŸ™‚

    Yes, I do think it’s so important not to take the way these guys, or any guys, behave personally. That is not what we were put here on this earth for.


  290.  #291Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 10:13 am


    My mom is fabulous, I don’t know what I’d do without her! I hope you take care of those disassociated feelings and loss of trust, and are not too hard on yourself. x

  291.  #292Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Linda G,

    My mom is a gift πŸ™‚ Glorious and a rock and understands me is exactly it. She always knows just what I need to hear.

  292.  #293mary on November 17, 2013 at 10:32 am


    i can’t stop thinking about this great guy named John!

    please send him my profile, Rori! (i’ll send it to you in an email) – we’ll see what happens…




  293.  #294Faith aka Tired on November 17, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Dominique and all – I wrote the affirmations someone shared here, about moving forward, moving toward my future and away from my past etc. It was beautiful so from that I created my own and they are on the bathroom mirror. And I also wrote what you said about my art Dominique. I do need it and it is so healing.

    I felt so good yesterday, I’ve crossed a major hurdle in trying to get over him. There was no particular reason, it was just me doing some work and it finally worked. And it was from the support I received from all of you on this blog, and from what others shared of their own experiences, reading other blogs and claiming my truth.

    So I went out last night with a fun girlfriend, feeling all sassy, and we had a blast. We ran into other friends we hadn’t seen in a long time too. Of course I drank too much but I think that’s just what needed to happen. I had to finally just let go and did just that.

    It feels so great. Well minus the hangover! Now I have to keep it up, keep the momentum going so I can make some real positive changes. I have an appt with my counselor tomorrow night. That should help a lot.

    Thank you beautiful women! Because of you I have a new handle. πŸ™‚

  294.  #295Faith aka Tired on November 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    And oh yes, I’m going to dinner with a male friend that I like very much. Don’t know if there’s anything there for us but he is a wonderful person so I’m going to go and enjoy some good food and great company. We’d been talking about getting together again, we had dinner a few months ago, and he just texted today. Love the timing!

    It feels good. It just feels so good to be smiling again. Especially when it’s genuine and not forced. πŸ™‚

  295.  #296Dominique on November 17, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Olivia – 250 – This is feels SO good to read. YAY you!!!


  296.  #297Dominique on November 17, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Dinah – 256 – if you were in early dating stages, it would be best to lean back mostly all the while keeping your heart open and receptive. Yet even during this time, there isn’t a rigidity about it.

    You’ve been together two years though. This well beyond early dating. There can be much more of a flow between you. It’s perfectly okay to initiate calls, invite him over IF you want to, IF it feels good. And if you’re not sure how you feel about it. simply try.

    When you keep your mind and heart open and curious, you will feel when you are leaning forward too much, initiating too frequently. There will be a subtle or not so subtle pulling away on his part.

    And when this happens, you re-establish the balance by leaning back again.


  297.  #298Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    That guy friend of mine from a few weeks ago… the one who was spoiling me and asked me to date him… I will call him G… tonight we were to go out for sushi and cocktails. Anyway, I didn’t feel up to it, so I asked if we could raincheck.

    He said he’d bring the sushi over to my work tomorrow for a picnic, so sweet! I thought, I could handle someone trying to make me feel good, I need that right now. There is nothing that says I have to marry the guy, but I intend to turn toward love, attention and cherishing, and away from its opposite.

  298.  #299lovingmelovingme on November 17, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    I feel confused… about myself and what course of action that would be best. I just read through a bunch of articles and I’m not sure if I want to CD keeping the man that has brought me here in the mix or kick him to the curb. I read one of rori’s posts about friends with benefits and she was very clear with the young lady, as it seemed to be a case of love addiction. I some of the same issues, but have been getting stronger in my life. I have been involved in a sort of friends with benefits situation with a man that i dated two years ago. it has been on again off again with our “hooking up.” Lately he started inviting me to hang out with him and his friends… which was a little awkward for me given our status. We had a really excellent talk last weekend and I expressed my need to start dating again. He was supportive and understand. He said that he understands if I want to let go of the physical side of our relationship, that our friendship is more important. I feel good, but sad and a bit rejected afterward… but I really liked how to talk went. I told him that I am happy with the way we are, but that I don’t want to hold myself back and kinda left it at that. My question is, how do you know if you are too far gone to keep someone in the loop? I felt good about keeping him in my life until I read that article about “friends with benefits.” But cutting him out of my life hasn’t worked for me in the past. HELP!

  299.  #300Daria on November 17, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Indigo yay! and that Does sound like something wonderful to receive! woo hoo!

  300.  #301Daria on November 17, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    i just talked to 3 cd’s on the phone… one wound up being 3 hours!!


    it felt comfortable, i noticed i feel excited to give the information about me and my outlook that will be more new and surprising and make an impact… is that to impress or express… i notice i lean forward ready to do that and am not listening at level 2

    ok i can change that yay! πŸ™‚

    maybe sharing my values in words is not as important as listening and leaning back

    maybe it will happen organically if i dont ‘need’ to do it, especially when it seems it’s not along with what the guy has said

  301.  #302Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Okay Daria,
    I followed your suggestion and joined POF
    There is a gorgeous guy in the next town, perfect for me on stats. I flirted, couldn’t help it. He looked at my profile, no reply!
    I am finding, have found, that even if I initiate with a wink, it never happens.

    Have you found this?

    And no, I am not complaining, it’s a cool suggestion and I thank you! Just want to know any body else’s experience with his.

    And of course, the first mail I got was from someone who asked if I like. Man who likes to Dominate. Hilarious!

  302.  #303Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    3 hours?! I am impressed. Usually I find myself shopping on ebay after 5 -10 minutes of a conversation

  303.  #304Daria on November 17, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Linda G – hehe i take teh phone connection time very seriously and follow the Rori thing of seating myeslf in a lean back way, stroking a soft cover or my thigh, while i sink into receptive feminine energy… hanging on to his every word in Level 2 listening and opening my heart an smiling, checking my energy, dropping thoughts…

    it feels SO enjoyable and men almost always like talking to me this way

    this is contrasted to the more upbeat, ‘interesting conversationlist’ style i have when im not paying attention, i can also check my fb then too…

    i make a commitment to myself to put everything away and practice that feminine energy stuff when im with men on the phone though

  304.  #305Liquid Light on November 17, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Millie, You are young and still feeling your way around men. That’s fine. But if he pays, trust me, its a date in his eyes. Most men will not come out and say its a date. That would take all the mystery away. And if you force the issue and have a conversation with him and ask him straight out it will take some of the mystery away from you and your dynamic together and he won’t feel as attracted. Just trust that it is a date. I’m much older than you and have been out on a lot of dates so I do feel like I know what I’m talking about, at least about this. If he pays, its a date. Period. Just enjoy it, and enjoy the moment and try to go with the flowy mystery of it all. Just my 2 cents. Oh yeah, and have fun! It sounds like you get a lot of interest from men so enjoy it, girl!

  305.  #306Daria on November 17, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Linda G – yes I’ve noticed a few times when i initiated with a man online, i did not get a response

    i dono if its most of those times, but i think pretty much. they were few.

  306.  #307Daria on November 17, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    i also practice radical honesty and go directly into how im really feeling, and how i feel about important things such as marriage, family, the world, desires… beliefs… so the convos feel interesting to me and i get something out of them (i ask myself what is the message)

  307.  #308Daria on November 17, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Linda G – i feel excited about your POF entry!

    how are your pictures? are they THE BEST PICTURES YOUVE EVER TAKEN?

    mine are… it makes the hugest difference

  308.  #309Tereana on November 17, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Emerson – hi back! πŸ™‚

    I’ve been reading some of your posts – have you been feeling depressed? :-/

  309.  #310Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Daria, my pictures are great and Rori helped me with my profile awhile back. I have updated it

    What do you say you are looking for? POF requires a definitive answer. I said relationship because I am afraid saying I am seriously looking for marriage sounds desparate
    What do you think? (Oops, Rori lingo ha)

  310.  #311Rori Raye on November 17, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Shahrzad, Welcome, and since I’ve taken some time off from private coaching, all the help I have to offer is here on the blog – with these amazing women! If you’d like some private coaching quickly – try one of my Coach Trainees for Free–>> https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/free-coaching-with-my-rrrct-trainees/

  311.  #312Daria on November 17, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Linda G – i guess i must have said marriage bec my profile says Lilreddgirl wants to find someone to marry

    for me this is very not triggering thing tho, i feel like one of my ACE attraction cards as a woman is that im looking for marriage, and i talk about it right away and at lenght, and it feels very pleasurable and connecting for me…

    all my plans for family and how wonderful it will feel

    usually guys love to talk about taht with me and it really gets them attracted

  312.  #313Daria on November 17, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    thats really awesome that Rori worked with you on your profile, i’d feel way confident with that… i feel excited to see what there is to learn from the men who want to contact you!

  313.  #314Daria on November 17, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    I think saying ‘relationship’ would feel ok to me too…

  314.  #315Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I changed it to marriage. Let’s see what happens.
    I feel uncertain, a I am much older than you and maybe guys my age ….oh who cares, let me experiment !

  315.  #316Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Suddenly I am feeling very sad, all this dating like it’s my job.
    Anyone who knows me, knows the one thing I don’t want is a job!

    I miss feeling passion for someone, all this dating, working through the steps….

  316.  #317Tereana on November 17, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    I am having lots of revelations, learning, and growth these days. Being around my family and experiencing the change in my grandparents and the whole family dynamic has shifted me in ways I probably can’t begin to describe.

    Meanwhile, this discussion of saying no and respecting boundaries vs. being flexible and compromising for the sake of relationship is really interesting.

    It seems to me that both are true, and it really depends on the situation, the individual(s), and the issues at stake.

    Here’s one question: if it is a “red flag” if a woman first says “no” and later says yes, who is it a red flag for? Is it a red flag for the man, that he can’t trust the woman, or is it a red flag for the woman that he can’t trust the man? And finally, where does it start?

    We are taught here so many times to look into ourselves when we find ourselves in a situation that triggers us. If the result is “mistrust” (on either side), then is it possible that, in changing a no to a yes, we have mistrusted ourselves? If so – if we didn’t trust our “no” and changed it to a yes in order to please, then it means we didn’t trust out instincts, we will feel bad, and the man will find it harder to trust is, too, mainly because he is picking up on our vibe.

    But what if, on the other hand, we say “no” and mean it, in one moment. And then, several moments, or maybe days later, we consciously and knowingly change our no to a yes, for our own reasons, trusting our instincts in the process? This, to me, would not reduce trust. This would be authentic behavior. We would not have guilt, and our partners would pick up on our confident vibe and continue to trust us.

    At least that’s what I think about this. Just the fact of changing the mind can’t be said, by itself, to be either a good thing or a bad thing. It’s just a thing.

    What do other ladies think?

  317.  #318Linda G on November 17, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Tereana, very thought provoking
    “If so – if we didn’t trust our “no” and changed it to a yes in order to please, then it means we didn’t trust out instincts, we will feel bad, and the man will find it harder to trust is, too, mainly because he is picking up on our vibe. ”

    The man’s reaction would matter less than the one it stirs in ourselves. When we change our no to a yes just to please a man, unless it’s a negotiated compromise, can create an underlying resentment I think; for him and a lowering of our self esteem.

    At least that’s what this brings up for me

  318.  #319Daria on November 17, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Tereana – wow yes very right on with my experience. when i concscioulsy changed my No to a Yes (on sex with M man, and NOT for him but for ME to beign my sex life)…. it did NOT affect our energy

    but recently changing my NO to yes because of missing him and though wishing i could stay NO and still see him… but didnt think i would as fast, etc

    well it def created resentful and disturbed energy between us like we’ve never had before!

  319.  #320Indigo on November 17, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Thanks Daria πŸ™‚

  320.  #321Veronica on November 17, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Sophie -274 – Hi : ) aw thank you oxoxo

  321.  #322Veronica on November 17, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Daria – I love hearing about how you get ready for a phone conversation, it’s gorgeous.

  322.  #323Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Linda G – yes Rori says it’s like a job…


  323.  #324Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    However for me since im a Words of Affirmation love pesron highly… all the compliments from men on the conversations/messages really soothe and charge me up… yum πŸ™‚

  324.  #325Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Veronica – yay hehe πŸ™‚ i feel lovely hehe

    just got off teh phone with a guy from earlier. he said my voice is so soothing!!

    i thought it was a different guy earlier today oops lol…

    i told him i liked his name and then i didnt know his actual name eeek

    it glossed over though so i feel comfortable not bringing it up

  325.  #326Veronica on November 17, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    It’s easier for me to use feeling messages with someone I’m not invested in. I crash-bumbled my way through a feeling message with my mother – but while I was in all that feeling upset, I could feel a joy expanding in that I was saying how I was feeling.

    Yesterday it seemed like men, or their energy rather was buzzing around me. I could feel myself pleasure watching a man helping my mom at the store, and he noticed that I was looking. Another man offered to go around the counter to fetch cool drink I needed that was two steps away from me. That’s new. I think I’m doing the pleasure-gazing very unconsciously/easily, and they’re looking : )

    I hit another level of pain with BM – we weren’t in contact – it was rather this energy that felt sticky and didn’t want to let me go. I felt diminished in this energy – as though there was so little of me coming out these days.

  326.  #327LINDA on November 17, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Hi… It has been a while since I have even turned on the computer at home. I read thru this thread.

    I liked the … warming, storming, transforming… and norming. I got tickled thinking about a saying that is characteristic of new plantings of shrubs.. first year they sleep, second year the creep, third year they leap!

    I am currently in a personal season of self discovery. Looking for answers to questions inside my heart. I have felt such pressure… so heavy. Now the holidays are coming and I feel so ICK about them. It is kinda like I opened pandoras box!

    I feel like I have been juggling. Each ball has gotten such sharp edges, my hands are cut an bleeding… then last week I stood the shower, all these issues running thru my mind, strategies, this, that, he said, she said…. I just stood there in the water and screamed!!!! NOOOO MORE! I dropped all the balls and let them wash down the drain.

    I dont know what is gonna happen but I do know I am done with trying to please, appease everybody else in my life.

    Authentic is what I am going to be…..even if it is all messy and untidy right now.

  327.  #328Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Veronica – is pleasure gazing a Rori tool? I really feel inspired by it…

  328.  #329Daria on November 17, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    I’m going to start pleasure gazing at men i find visually pleasuarable, bec i feel scared to look at those men and unless they’re noticing me, but i think i actually shut down making it less easy for them to notice me

  329.  #330Daria on November 17, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    what if i feel mistrustful with a man cuz he seems overly ‘leery’ or ‘just this little thing i can tell by his voice that he’s probably sexually obsessed/creepy/has issues’

    i dont want to judge

    do i still want to meet him if i dont feel physically SCARED of him, just turned off kinda by this judgment thought i have of his voice and way of talking and pictures and something he brought up and i got the idea that he’s all about sex…


  330.  #331Daria on November 17, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    i said i dont feel comfortable talking about sex yet and he said ok we don’t have to yet

    theres something about his voice taht feels either feminine/insecure or else like he wants something, sexual from me, its a lil high pitched a tiny whine or smeothing that i’ve recognized ant i feel triggered and on guard with those sounds

    i don’t ever get close with men who sound likethat, maybe im judging them and they turn out that way bec of my jdugement

    eh that didn’t feel good

    im gonna trust my feelings that i feel a bit on guard

  331.  #332Veronica on November 17, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Daria – 328 – Not that I know of. I noticed that while I was looking at the man helping my mom that I was deriving pleasure from him giving, being so willing to help. It reminds me of an article I read where the husband realized the look of love in his wife’s eyes when he did something for her, gave to her. I could put up the link if you’d like that. Oh Daria, I feel so good knowing that you’re inspired, I like that energy of inspiration you have, it feels so positive : )

  332.  #333Dominique on November 18, 2013 at 4:42 am

    Faith aka Tired – Awesome. YAY!!! you.


  333.  #334Indigo on November 18, 2013 at 8:01 am


    I feel the very same way. Looking for answers inside my heart. Done with trying to please people.

  334.  #335Syreena on November 18, 2013 at 8:11 am

    TY for sharing Daria.

  335.  #336Joy on November 18, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Need to riff and script …

    I feel bad. I feel let down. I feel disappointed. I feel turned off. I feel icky. I feel sinking. I feel frustrated. I feel angry. I feel uncherished.

    That all feels awful to me, and I love my awful feelings. Feeling a little lighter now.

    I feel so good seeing you and being with you, and I feel a little angry, too.

    I feel icky being forgotten about after being told I would receive a phone call to make plans. I don’t want to feel unimportant. What do you think?

    I feel weird being asked to take the masculine role of initiating phone calls and texts. I don’t want to be the leader in a relationship. What do you think?

    I feel so uncertain when a man doesn’t make plans with me in advance. I don’t want to feel this way. What do you think?

  336.  #337Joy on November 18, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    I feel so good seeing you and being with you, and I feel a little angry, too.

    I feel icky being forgotten about after being told I’d receive a phone call to make plans. I don’t want to feel unimportant. What do you think?

    I feel so uncertain when a man doesn’t make plans with me in advance. I don’t want to feel up in the air. What do you think?

    I feel confused because I’m used to the man being the leader and initiator in a relationship. What role do you feel comfortable with?

  337.  #338Joy on November 18, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    I feel so good seeing you and being with you, and I also feel a little confused.

    I heard what you said today about wanting me to reach out and initiate more phone calls and texts, and I understand where you’re coming from. But I don’t feel comfortable doing that until I’m in a committed relationship. What do you think?

    I also feel a little bad about something else. I feel icky being forgotten about after being told I’d receive a phone call to make plans. I don’t want to feel unimportant. What do you think?

    I feel so uncertain when a man doesn’t make plans with me in advance. I don’t want to feel up in the air. What do you think?

  338.  #339Millie on November 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Sooo…thank you all for all your kind advice!! I have lots to share! Where I left off was I wasn’t sure if my dinners with mechanic were dates or not… I didn’t ask. I agree liquid light that that would ruin some of the mystery! Sat night me hw if had an art show. It was my brothers bday so I told him I would try to come after. I didn’t end up making it… But he noticed! Sunday he was very chatty with me and I had a mutual girlfriend over at my new apt. I told him I couldn’t talk cuz she was visiting, but he wanted to go to dinner with both of us. He ended up coming over and lighting my pilot light and we all went to dinner. My girlfriend is very very outgoing and very flirty. I am a social person but I felt myself receding in her energy. I became kind of quiet. Mechanic invited another guy and the four of us were going to a party. He made a comment about me being a quiet person and I felt like oh is that bad? Do people like me less because I’m not as loud as the others? At the party my gf was all over him, being very flirty. But I liked that even though it was crowded he seemed to be aware of me. Aware of who was buying me drinks, aware if where I left my drink, he can dance but is selective about it and extended his hand to dance with me! It was great! I felt special and let my face snuggle into his shirt. We talked alone for a bit and I shared that I had felt self conscious about not being as outgoing as everyone else. He was very sweet and said that he didn’t mean it negatively, just that we are all different…. And it’s ok. It doesn’t mean he likes me any less and he put his hand on mine. Earlier we had another time alone but it had felt very uncomfortable for some reason. I brought it up and he said no it wasnt that at all just he was concerned about his truck.(it had a problem that night) I felt relieved and also very girly because we women always seem to think a mans withdrawal is about us when it sometimes isn’t at all!! I’m going to post in parts since I’m writing on my phone. And it’s long

  339.  #340Millie on November 18, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Later in in the night my girlfriend, lets call her Lucy. Initially Lucy told me she likes him for me, but now she says he’s not the guy for me. I felt bothered because she seems to also be very critical of me but at the same time does exactly what she advised me not to. All night she was all flirty with mechanic even though they both say they are friends. I beleive him. Her I’m not so sure…. She said that its obvious to him that I’m interested. I asked why did he say something? And she said no… But he’s a man he can tell. Button up your shirt. Your body language and your low cut shirt is speaking so loudly. I was offended. First if all I’d been wearing that outfit all day and it had nothing to do with him. Second her body language is off the hook…. I wasnt trying or going out of my way to fling myself at him. I was just being me. It really bothers me how she is so critical. Later on, I was sitting next to him and he put his arm over the chair so his hand was resting in my shoulder. All of my friends spent the night at my house, the four of us. And as we sat he pulled me in and started cuddling. We ended up kissing and such… No sex. In the morning I wondered if now he is going to pull away, but he hasn’t. He started texting right away and being very nice asking how I am…. So I feel ok with what happened. I also feel ok with not knowing what’s going to happen next. Whether the previous nights were dates or not… It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s ahead and I feel at ease with the unknown. The fact that he didn’t pull away helps a lot….so we will see what happens with this chapter.

  340.  #341Millie on November 18, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    On another note, yesterday I also had a dog park/coffee date with another guy. He was very nice and I liked his demeanor and personality a lot. The only thing is he says “dude” a lot and calls me dude. Must speak up about that. I have less to say about this guy, but I got a good feeling from the date and it seems he wants to go out again. Side note… I cancelled on him twice before this date happened and he still wanted to go! I was surprised!

  341.  #342Lisa on November 18, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    @Linda I love your post “I dont know what is gonna happen but I do know I am done with trying to please, appease everybody else in my life.

    Authentic is what I am going to be…..even if it is all messy and untidy right now.”

    You GO GIRL!!! Yay for you!!!

    I’ve been that way lately… it feels so freeing… I just have been out with it… and even with my posting… and it feels good! I agree with you! Me too!

    @ Joy love those scripting venting posts.. I had something similar come up just yesterday… I’m saving them to use… thanks!


    Ok all the other CD’s have fallen away and now there is “S”. In 2 dates I feel more connected and know more about him at a deep level than I’ve known with most men in 6 mos. The attraction isn’t all there yet, but the physical is coming along nicely.. and I contribute it to him LISTENING to me and asking me about me! (what a turn on!) OMG! I feel so free with this man.. I can be my perky, sassy, silly, full of life me and he loves it! He hasn’t tried to dampen me at all! Matter of fact he says that he would never try to… I actually walked in the rain with him on our date and I was shocked… he loved it too… I love to walk in the rain… and I jumped in puddles… which I love to do and he loved watching me.. ( instead of past men who was put off by it)… I can be my “in awe” person that I am…OH look at the moutains, oh look the turtle.. oooooo look at the blue herring!!!

    He gets my feeling messages, and love them.. he says he loves that I give him pause to collect his thoughts… and he feels met… and he asks me if I feel met…

    so far I feel like I can say anything to this man, talk to him about anything…

    He makes me purrr… I love that… when I smell the rain, he smells it with me… he said, that I’m so ALIVE! that he just in awe of me….. I’m so seriously amazed that I’ve attracted a man that gets me! My sensitivity.. my aliveness.. my energetic tigger bounces when I’m happy…

    He said he doesn’t want to schedule sex and it would have never entered his mind… to do so…He said he likes lots of sex… ( I’m happy about that)

    We haven’t had sex yet… I’m waiting… but we had the STD talk..that was nice.. easy..

    it’s easy with him…he feels it’s easy with me… I’m loving easy…

    He gets my trauma… said he is amazed at how far I’ve come, and wouldn’t even consider that “I should be over it”… he gets it… how hard I’ve worked… and it touched my heart… he is the first man that hasn’t shrugged off what I went through as if It was no big deal- and that I sould be over it by now…… he actually had compassion and empathy for me and that he couldn’t fathom what I’ve gone through and how arrogant for anyone to suggest it be minute… I had tears… that felt soo good… to me…

    Ok enough of that… I could go on and on… I’m feeling blessed right now… really really blessed! I have no idea what will happen with him… I’m not the least bit concerned about if he calls me or asks me out again… or where this might lead…

    I didn’t think I was getting the tools now I realize that I was just using them on the wrong men…


  342.  #343Lisa on November 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    @Indigo… wow! Yay for you GO Girl! cherish and real love… yes!!!! <3 What a man that would do that… πŸ™‚

  343.  #344Linda G on November 18, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    I’m freaked out
    I joined POF yesterday, have already talked to 3 guys on the phone, emailed a dozen.
    Then I get an email from a woman, warning me about one of the guys, who seemed so great.
    She said her friend met him on another site last year and he beat her with a metal pole.

  344.  #345blue rose on November 18, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    344 Linda G

    okay that is pretty scary. my friends do POF – I’m too chicken to do it. But they always meet these guys in public areas and no one has gotten harmed. And tell at least one friend where you are going and have her/him check in on you by phone.

    And avoid this pole beating guy – that should go without saying.

  345.  #346Veronica on November 19, 2013 at 12:35 am

    Lisa – 342- You sound amazing! I love reading how you’re so free and being yourself so freely.

  346.  #347Linda G on November 19, 2013 at 3:30 am

    Blue rose and everyone:
    His username is teddybearslv2laugh on POF

    He lives on Long Island. He served time for this last year

    If you want his actual name, let me know

  347.  #348Lisa on November 19, 2013 at 8:34 am

    @Veronica Thanks! <3

  348.  #349blue rose on November 19, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    347: Linda G

    just looked him up. Looks can be deceiving! looks harmless but is clearly a mess. stay away from the creep.

  349.  #350Linda G on November 19, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    He served time for beating her, then a years probation, all n all, a minor offence. The record is online
    It feels creepy all around, the world of internet dating is becoming a place to victimize women, scam them for money, lure them to danger.
    As I write this, a tv ad for “anastasia” a Rusian love match service came on, the ultimate scam on American men, where women lure them into fantasy online romance, expecting money and citizenship in return

  350.  #351Faith aka Tired on November 20, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Ladies, I need your help. You know all about the “creep” I wrote about earlier. The problem is I never did want an exclusive relationship as he is a different person when we’re alone than when he’s around others. He’s loud and obnoxious and brash. I would hate for people we work with to know we’re together!

    Why do I miss him then? He treated me well when we were together. We were both honest in that we knew we dated others, although I wasn’t sleeping with anyone else. But that’s just me, I can’t sleep around. But I always knew he was seeing others, I guess what I didn’t know is he was practically living with one and telling her the same thing, he didn’t want a committed relationship.

    And I won’t sleep with him again and he knows that. But what’s wrong with cuddling on the couch while watching a movie?

    I only ask here because I know I’ll get straight answers! Thank you in advance.

  351.  #352Dominique on November 20, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Faith – There’s nothing at all wrong with this AS LONG AS you can handle this emotionally. Can you simply cuddle and not long for something more? If yes, then fabulous.


  352.  #353Faith aka Tired on November 20, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Thank you Dominique. I have some hard questions to ask myself. I think it’s just going to take some time. I’m a “junkie” I think…

    Thanks again, have a wonderful evening.

  353.  #354Nia on November 26, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Hi ladies,
    I guess my current situation falls into the “fix him” category. I was dating a great guy for five months, we’d both been married before to people we were not in love with. He is adamant that he will never be a coward in that sense again. Several times throughout us dating he mentioned it’s hard for him to get attached to other people, and often times he feels it is unfair for him to date at all because while he doesn’t get attached, the girls usually do. The relationship before me he said he had dated her for nine months and then broke it off. After he realized he missed her, but she wouldn’t come back. Fast forward to me, and we’re doing fine. He invites me on a road trip with him and his friends, then a week later he breaks things off! He said his “heart wasn’t in it” I actually sort of forced him to break things off because he really just wanted to talk about his feelings as he didn’t feel it was fair to continue dating me without telling me that, but I told him i wasn’t driving out to his place to have something like that unloaded on me. He’s very honest, which I like. But since then we’ve been friends, sort of, and have hung out at least once a week. And yes, we’ve been sleeping together still (that part is amazing). I’ll go a few days without texting him just to test it, and I always hear from him. He always makes contact, but yet claims while he cares a lot about me he’s not “attached”. The other night we were watching a mini series on WW2 and I caught a tear rolling down his cheek, so I wiped it away and we cuddled for awhile. I get frustrated, but he has told me point blank he’s not dating anyone else right now and he would tell me so were that the case. Yet, he hasn’t made any move toward trying to get me back. I feel like there is a lot more going on underneath the surface with him and I should wait to see how this plays out, and then the other part of me gets impatient and angry and wants to write him off. I should also mention that he isn’t very close with his family, either, so his issues extend beyond just myself. I’m not sure what to do!

  354.  #355Tammy Lopez on December 20, 2013 at 12:10 am

    Honestly, for men to think that they would be scoring a date with such repulsive profile is highly ambitious. What woman in her right senses would want to waste her time with someone who appears to want to make her feel uncomfortable instead of impressing her? If the guy is really serious in looking for a real relationship, something pleasant must surface in that profile. But then again, nobody’s perfect. What looks and sounds nice to him may not look or sound nice to you, and vice versa. If a guy, like John, is able to score a date with another chic, they may be in the same wavelength and that would be fortunate for them both.