A Great Tool From Rosa – The Stop Sign

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Rosa posted this as a comment, written to Brenda, who sent it to me. It’s a valuable, wonderful Tool – and I decided to make it a “guest post.” Thank you, Rosa:

To Brenda:

I understand this feeling. This was me.

I posted a long one for you last thread, here’s another.

I feel bad that you are crying out for help and so I am offering some techniques of thinking to use on yourself. These thoughts are straight up , they are sent with love, you may not like them, but if you want change, here it is…

This is an addiction .
This is a habit which is harming you .
You are addicted to feeling bad. You are a pining addict.

Your brain is running loops that are self destructive .
“He left me”
” I don’t want to live without him”
etc etc …

You will know what the thoughts are that trigger the emotion of loss, pain, hurt, fear etc and the tears.

The loop will be so habitual you will be able to state it clearly, in thoughts, then emotions, then actions. Here is a theoretical example:

I think – I am alone
I think – I am so lonely
I think – I am lonely because he left me
I think – I love him so much
I think – He doesn’t want me
I think – My chest is a gaping hole


I do – nothing (inertia)- stay in bed
I do – go to refrigerator
I do – grab phone and text
I do – call and corner him

Do This:

1. make a list of your common thought triggers IN WRITING.

2. Every time you hear one in your head or see a pic of him in your head or you recall feeling sad etc.,.do the following.

-lift your eyes up to the right.
-see a BIG RED STOP SIGN,. hold your eyes up right and count to 5.

3. Talk to yourself along these lines:

It’s ok if a thought of him comes, its only a thought, it is a little loop in my brain and I have let it run too often so it is a cracked record. BUT I can just let it run. Its only a thought. I don’t have to DO anything. I don’t have to FEEL anyway particularly.
I don’t have to cry and I don’t have to eat.

4. If you have an urge to cry or wail or eat or pine or LOOP AROUND, remind yourself you are blocking your future good and happiness and do something else…

I usually jump up and down or flap both hands wildly or yell EEEEEEEE. I DO SOMETHING ELSE.

When I do something else I break up the loop.

Note – this does NOT remove good memories or change love feelings. It stops the secondary negative looping and sadness which is now a habit.

5. You cant let go because you don’t want to.

I suspect you get satisfaction from the loop running in your brain like a smoker or a junkie gets satisfaction when the “I must light up now” loop is satisfied even if its killing them.

When you want to you will start to recognize a loop when it starts.

You will say  “Hi thought!!!~ I love my ‘I love him” thought but I am busy painting my nails just now and thinking of flowers or recipes or ANYTHING ELSE. I don’t wish to have a downhill feel bad spiral which will end in tears. I choose to smile and sing Yankee Doodle!”

Further Tricks

1. Identify all your metaphors – the giant gaping hole in your chest one is highly toxic and could well lead to physical illness. It causes a marvelous negative feel bad feeling though, doesn’t it?

GET RID OF IT. And any others that are dark or dangerous.

2. Put bright pictures and metaphors in your words and in sounds you hear in your head,and in pictures you give yourself, eg , see a lovely bright pink heart in your chest radiating out sparkling light all around , as it radiates out it gets brighter and brighter until you giggle… if a song in your head reminds you of him, say “nice song, ” and I choose now to sing “Jingle Bells.”And DO IT ! SING IT!

Ok This is all offering solutions which is not my role here but you wanted to know how other people have done it , so here it is with much love

More On The STOP SIGN:

Hi , The Stop Sign – its NOT to stop feelings as such.

A feeling that is already there is to be recognized and felt ..

Stop sign is a way of stopping habits of thought , patterns of thinking that invariably lead to a downward spiral of thinking and feeling and actions (as in the examples i gave).

Its to stop the addictive thought patterns which lead to the same old -same old negative outcomes.

If a feeling is there love it and accept it and say HI to it , give it a wave and set it in the corner , look at your thought triggers that caused it and put up the stop sign for same old -same old negative triggers.

If there is a very strong feeling or “craving” thought/feeling (this works for men, booze or cigarettes! Also for severe anxiety..) that is actually there right now, eg I feel BAD , I want to send a text right now…Stop , breathe , sink in as Rori teaches , say hi to the craving and then notice how its a wave coming and going, it peaks and then leaves …this is really helpful for strong feelings, they always peak and fall away…

Most of us , me anyway , are good at refueling the feelings with more and more thoughts in our own favorite pattern , setting up more and more big negative waves..Lets use the example of I NEED TO CONTACT HIM …a common thought/feeling craving

Thought pattern goes- “oh but I miss him -> I have nothing to lose -> I feel so empty -> I may as well text him..->now i feel BAD ….. (and I damaged my self esteem as well, and now I feel WORSE , I am a loser …UUUUGHHHH)”

You can do stop sign anywhere in the pattern that you catch yourself .. and it breaks down the pattern.

OR , just feel the feeling of missing him and wanting contact , know it will peak in a wave shape and will ebb away , and you don’t have to think or do anything about it .. movement helps it pass faster often and singing something ridiculous..

Hope this is a little clearer. These are principles of ACT therapy and some CBT stuff in a little nutshell.

I works great for me and I hope for someone else too. I wrote it for Brenda first.

From Rori – I love all “metaphors” that work for you, and each of us resonates with different images.  Let me know how Rosa’s ‘Stop Sign” works for you.

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 8:10 am

    Stop sign is a way of stopping habits of thought , patterns of thinking that invariably lead to a downward spiral of thinking and feeling and actions (as in the examples i gave).

    This hard for me but thanks for the suggestion.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 8:17 am

    I am resposting my previous question here because I tend to get it a lot, sometimes from guys I meet early even before dating. I have recently had one who kept talking about when he gets wifey how he will behave. I find it sends my brain into imagining my wedding and being with the person, waking up in the morning next to him and living with him. I guess the stop sign metaphor is great timing for me.

    Has anyone ever experiences a guy who talks about marriage while in an imaginary relationship and what his decisions would be around certain things as it relates to you? Also has anyone experienced a guy introducing you to others as his wife? I am curious to know what that means, what he is really communicating and if he has flamed out after that? Has Rori said anything about something similar?
    Your input would be greatly appreciated.

  3.  #3Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:19 am

    i would try look up to the left see stoo sign count to 5

    on “this is hard for me”
    then insert new rhought
    Then chevj how I feel

  4.  #4Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Femwoman I have. It feels good and I like it as part of woing me … It “means” nothing .

  5.  #5lm on January 20, 2011 at 8:37 am

    this is my favourite post in a while.

    when i was in the depths of a crappy situation obsessing over my relationship i learned some OCD-related strategies to stop repetitive thoughts from overtaking me. there’s a great book called ‘brainlock’ that teaches you to separate yourself from your bothersome thoughts (or compulsions…and calling or thinking about a man can be a compulsion, hey?!!) by seeing them as an obsession, something that is happening in your brain and not a reflection of you as a person..one great trick i used was to say ‘it’s not me, it’s my obsession’ then refocus my attention on a task or pleasant sensations in my body (sort of like rori’s channeling tool). then you revalue the thoughts as mental junk (i think of them as junk mail or spam from my brain!) and not a reflection of reality.

    my life coach taught me the stop sign technique a few weeks ago and i find it helps me stop ruminating over things that normally bother me (awkward conversations, conflicts). i broke the cycle after a couple of weeks and managed to deal with my blackberry addiction at the same time (i used to check it non-stop and now i have blackout periods where i turn it off and leave it at home. this actually pissed my man off at first because he couldn’t get a hold of me!).

    i think a lot of what we come to accept as ‘romantic love’ is obsession…i am free a lot of intrusive thoughts now and i feel amazing.

  6.  #6Lisi on January 20, 2011 at 8:42 am

    What was that about blackberry addiction?

    I just heard my Android go clickety click, which means I got a text.

    Gotta go RIGHT NOW!


    I’m making light — because it’s so true.

    And this is a great article. I’m going to use this technique.

  7.  #7Gift_of_Love on January 20, 2011 at 8:43 am

    these posts are all so helpful. The thoughts come to me like an anxiety attack…like an alien inside me taking over. THe other day in therapy we were talking about how hard I work at this relationship. And I said gosh…STOP! Enough already! And my therapist made me notice and listen to how I said that with truth, conviction and power. So now I say it all the time and it helps. STOP! Enough already.

  8.  #8Gift_of_Love on January 20, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Feminine Woman #2 – my boyfriend used to say all the time..where do you want to go on our honeymoon? And he would say things like You should let your husband do that…using those terms. Or joking around I’ll divorce you etc. But when push comes to shove he doesn’t want to get married or commit. I think some guys do but others, like him, just do it as a fantasy. A safe fantasy. I don’t pay any attention to him anymore when he talks like that. He once even said “Am I your favorite husband?” (I was married before.) i said I only had one husband. You’re not my husband. So no, you’re not.
    Idiot.<—- said under my breath right now to myself.

  9.  #9Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:07 am

    I find I get those comments regularly after a break.

  10.  #10Turtle Girl on January 20, 2011 at 9:17 am

    This kind of behavior just feels like another way to over function. We over function when with him and when he’s gone, we continue the habit. We are in our heads, and our head are just buzzing.

    Whew! Stop indeed. I have been listening to a bit of Eckhart Tolle lately about stillness and silence. This is a very interesting post. I really hate the squirrel cage in my head. Oops! I mean I love my squirrel cage!! I see all those thoughts as squirrels on a road wheel. The little guy just goes round and round and round till he is exhausted and then he crashes……talk about women who think too much!

    Out of balance this is. More body, more heart and less mind for me thanks….xxoo

  11.  #11Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Re 10 Thanks Turtle Girl I did listen to Eckhart Tolle some time ago I guess it is time to go back and remind myself.

  12.  #12Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 9:22 am

    This is a great post.

    When I was undergoing CBT for OCD my therapist told me that when I confront a fear and the feelings of anxiety took hold just to understand it was an obsessive thought and to drop what I was doing and turn away from the situation, keep breathing through it and understand that within thirty minutes even the most severe panic attack would be over. Just like the wave.

    There would be times when I was so tired obsessively worrying or carrying out a compulsion that I would literally be crying with exhaustion and frustration while I was doing it. Eventually I just learned to stop what I was doing. The feeling of anxiety would literally rise inside of me, sometimes it was so bad I would just collapse on the floor and close my eyes but after the wave had passed I would literally be left wondering why I had got myself so worked up and the knowledge I had been able to take control rather than being controlled by my thoughts was such a wonderful feeling. The more I practised this the easier it became.

    I think this technique works beautifully. I wish I had known to visualise the stop sign before. Such a powerful visionary tool.

  13.  #13Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Re 8 Gift-of-Love I wonder if it really means that or is it that they are constantly fantasing about it why it falls so easily off their tongues? I also wonder if they say it to test us to see how we will respond? I also wonder if they say it to get us comfortable with the idea of being married to them? I wonder if they say it to get themselves comfortable with popping the question and seeing if they will be rejected?

    One of my friends some time ago introduced me to a female friend, we were not dating at the time. She was later asked by another mutual friend if she was his wife. She responded “no” as if she was offended and he grumbled out loud about that in front of both of us. He seemed to have been flabbergasted that her reaction was so strong, think that was his demonstrated fear of rejection response. When he later introduced me to another friend as his wife, I just smiled, I usually never respond. Once I just extended my hand to introduce myself and the guy he was talking to looked shocked, then just brushed him aside saying he knew he was a single parent. They laughed about it and I just went back to what I was doing. Another time he introduced her as his girlfriend and myself as his wife. Of course I just looked up and continued with what I was doing.

    I find it intriguing though that guys always refer to me as their wife. Even one guy here in the office when he found out I was not married, after he did something for me said “you see it’s a good thing you have a husband looking out for you”. I feel they all dream of being a husband though they claim they are not ready or are afraid of commitment. I feel they are afraid of making a mistake and getting the wrong girl. While it might not necessarily mean anything significant, I am wondering if they elicit the response they are looking for from us, if that is what causes them to eventually cave into themselves as Rori puts it. I really wonder???

  14.  #14Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Wonder Woman Re 12 isn’t it amazing how our brains, minds and bodies work though? I find it fascinating just reading these stories and understanding that we are all in this together and that our experiences are all the same. I feel comforted knowing I am not alone.

  15.  #15Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Re 8 Gift-of-Love I don’t know if this is an aha moment for me but I wondering if that is how the guy feels in the moment why he says things like that. I have also felt that it is the guy sharing his heart at the time and maybe making a bid for emotional connnection. My heart is hopeful and singing that I can actually create and elicit that from another human being. I am feeling comforted that there is hope yet.

  16.  #16Senior Lady Vibe on January 20, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Hello world, I’m thankful for the day.

    I’m wondering if there will be a Rori post — maybe there is already — about “The Prodigal CD”, those disappearing CD who reappear.

    In the meantime, I’ll continue practicing. Ha! 😆


  17.  #17Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Femininewoman @ 14

    “I feel comforted knowing I am not alone.”

    I second that..!! I recently went to see a doctor about my OCD and he asked me if I was able to talk to anybody about what was going on with me and I told him about this site and he said it sounded a wonderful source of support…

    I couldn’t have said it better myself. 🙂

  18.  #18Ella on January 20, 2011 at 9:44 am

    This is a great post and much needed for me right now…

    I was just thinking how I am ‘pining’ today and having loads of the thoughts mentioned above.

    Good to know I can do something about the thoughts which may lead to less of the bad feelings.

    And the feelings I am getting better at dealing with!

    Today I am feeling quite empty. Feeling a little subdued and sometimes a little down/hopeless.

    This is peppered with the occasional feeling of positivity and strength.

    I get the very smallest glimmer of feeling positive about the future, and then it kinda ebs away.

    BUT I did get my tax return done this morning so I feel very pleased that I achieved that.

    Now I am just off out to deliver some brochures. Walking around delivering them always makes me feel good (as Rosa said above, movement helps get rid of negative feelings), and I am gonna watch my thoughts.

    If I see or hear a negative one I am going to try the STOP sign tool and instead CHOOSE what I want to think and do.

    Thanks Rosa.


  19.  #19Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Feminiewoman @ 15

    I am not sure why a man talks of marriage when he is not showing signs of following through but it is interesting to me now you have brought it up.

    I have a guy friend who I have known for like ten years….and we have flirted on and off made the odd drunken joke about kissing but nothing more.

    Anyway a couple of weeks ago I joked to him that if we are both still single when we are 40 we will get married to each other. We have had a few silly flirty jokes in between but suddenly his attention towards me has gone through the roof.

    I wonder if I have implanted the image in his head and he is responding to that or if he is just flirting more than usual.

  20.  #20Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Re 18 Ella I got Rori’s Interview Series this month where one of the ladies was talking about the same thing how an array of emotions were flowing in and out of her from moment to moment. Isn’t it amazing how powerful and majestic we are as human beings and women? And knowing that we can now feel it and express it, it makes me feel powerful. I am having so much fun on the blog today expressing myself and imagining situations, I feel like my creative juices are flowing for the first time in my life.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Re 19 Wonder Woman I am sure you have worked wonders in his mind and heart by elevating his masculinity and making him feel both you and himself. You might have verbalized his fantasy that he has been shy or hesitant to do himself. Words are really powerful. I wonder how my body language impacts a man’s mind when I just go along with introducing myself? Hmmmm

  22.  #22Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Now that I think of it I have seen Christian Carter suggests act “as if” rather than talking in some instances. There is also the fake it till you make it concept. He says when we ask questions like where is this going we are seeking “approval or validation” from the guy and that is unattractive. I wonder if we have hit on something? I wonder if any of the other sirens who might be in committed relationships or married have anything to say about this?

  23.  #23Turtle Girl on January 20, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Good stuff!

    Hello beautiful sirens! Hello wonderful rain! Hello world, I have another day of life and am grateful for it!

    Hello men!

    Hello men who give me messages that heal me! I am grateful for them!

    Hello men that I used to be attracted to that I am no longer attracted to, I can let you go lovingly and in peace! With grace and no resentments!

    Hello gorgeous, hunky, giving, sweet, wonderful men! I will cd you all.

    Hello man who wants me for me and I for him. Hello Mr. Right who is also Mr. Right Now. (a bit of fun zen interjected here) lol but true….

    The Prodigal CD? Oh lordy! CMOAU!!! (crack my old a** up!)

  24.  #24Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Femininewoman @ 21

    I don’t know. The problem with him is I have always been reluctant to get involved with him because he has a bit of a reputation as one of the lads plus I always felt we were friends and nothing more. He has had girlfriends on and off but mostly I think he has been out for fun. This has made it easy for me to leave him in the friend category.

    I have never got the impression he saw me as anything more than a good friend except for the odd drunken text here and there and once when he said he should have given me a kiss and that was years ago. He has spoke recently of feeling maternal etc so I am thinking I evoked some thoughts of what it would be like for him to have a family or something. I must admit when I said it a picture of us both at the alter flashed through my mind and for a moment it felt great but I don’t feel I could ever be more than friends with him. We shall see.

  25.  #25Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Re 24 I guess he feels your reluctance. I might be worthwhile working through your resistance as Rori suggests remaining open to all. We should not close off any part of us is what I am sure I have read somewhere. I guess if he brings it up again I would want to know what does he mean by “feeling maternal”. It sounds to me like you have an emotional attraction going on, as him sharing his heart. I explore that with every guy possible. Recently I inadvertently opened up a colleague into sharing with me about his ex wife and how he misses her. He also talked about a very weepy current girlfriend who he had an understanding with around “let’s see how it goes” while he is “with” her. They are sleeping together with no commitment. Another colleague totally opened up about financial challenges and the death of his mother. This one is married but I feel so connected to him we talk about anything. I really feels good t be so deeply connected to people I didn’t even consider friends in the past. This is all because of Rori’s work that has helped me to open up parts of me that were previously closed off.

  26.  #26Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Ok, this is a bit off topic but I watched a chat show the other day and there was this “dating expert” on the show. He was this young guy who set up a business advising people how to behave on dates Anyway I started to cringe when he began to talk about women making the first move and was expecting him to say that nowadays women can ask a guy out etc but then he said women can do this and still make the guy believe he made the first move. He spoke about how women in Victorian times would drop gloves or handkerchiefs in front of a guy she liked and if he liked her he would be keen to look like the kindly gentleman and pick it up and hand it back to her thus allowing him to introduce himself. Obviously the guys who were not so keen just left it there or handed it back and moved on but the man who liked her was convinced he made the first move.

    So I got to thinking if there are any modern ways of doing this. Finding a way to make a move for a man we like and make him think he made the first move when he didn’t.

    I am thinking I could go over to guy I like in a club and as I walk past him I could act like my shoe is irritating me and ask if I can use him to lean on so I don’t lose my balance while I adjust my shoes or something. (ok so I would have to ensure there were no walls close by) Then I could be all thankful that he was my hero and he would be feeling all masculine and be so hypnotised by my femininity that he would have to get my number…….hmmmmm maybe I am overthinking this…….can’t be helped I love romance stories. ha ha

    Anybody got any other ideas/views on this. 🙂

  27.  #27Jennifer on January 20, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Hello Sirens,

    I am new here. I’ve been reading Rori’s blogs for about a month now and I have to say that they work. What does she say about when they “rubber-band” though?

    I’ve been involved with a man for almost 7 months. He’s 27 and I’m 37. He lives about an hour from me and we see each other every weekend. But about 2 months ago, he stopped texting and calling and at the time I didn’t know what was going on because I completely forgot that some men pull away every so often after intimacy and closeness. Of course I chased him and then we broke up temporarily. Last month over the holidays he was completely romantic, loving, etc. Anyway, now he’s gone again. I divorced about 10 years ago and this is the first man I’ve brought home for my two older teen kids to meet. The other few men I dated were cheaters or loopy, so I have been really careful about bringing a man home. I don’t believe he’s a cheater, but those old thoughts still go through my head because of what I’ve been through and drive me crazy. I just believe he’s pulling away temporarily. I recently found his real mother for him (he’s adopted), who died several years ago from HIV, and then he just spoke to his real father for the first time in 16 years after he gave him up, and he’s about to go on a cruise with his adoptive family. I’m sure he’s a bit overwhelmed right now. But how long do they usually rubberband for and at what frequency? The other few relationships I’ve had in the last ten years didn’t last very long because I don’t put up with much but I feel this one is a winner so please beautiful Sirens, I need advice. I go through all kinds of emotions just “waiting” for him to get in touch, I feel pissed off, I feel hurt, I feel anxious…..you know what I’m going through. 🙂

  28.  #28Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Feminiewoman @ 25

    Yes you are absolutely right.

    I have been closed off to him for many years. He used to share a house with my son’s real dad who dropped me the second I told him I was pregnant. My friend visited me to ask how I was during this time although he lived with my ex and I guess although I was grateful to have someone to talk to about it my feelings were mixed because I knew he was still my ex’s friend. Also at one point my ex got with my friends girlfriend while they were still together and they fell out and I was unsure if he was being friendly so he could feel like he got with the girlfriend (albeit ex girlfriend) of the guy who took his girfriend if you like.

    I shall be open to him. I am visiting him in a few weeks and it will be good to approach him in a new way. I am already using feeling messages by text and he is responding well to them.

  29.  #29Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Re 26 This is now called backleading or indicating interest. In your example I guess I would just say to the guy “I have a problem would you mind helping?” What you described seemed like strategy to me or game playing which I understand guys don’t like and they see right through. I have also learnt like just saying “I like your tie, your suit/your shoe” works the same way. Some describe that as flirting.

  30.  #30Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Re 27 Is it possible to change something about yourself for the visit, your hairstyle, dress up, wear feminine colors such as lavender, baby blue, pink as Rori suggests? It would be great to see if he notices, get visually stimulated in some way. I would also try leaning back in chair when he is talking and lowering my voice to see if he opens up a bit more than he normally does.

  31.  #31Mercedes on January 20, 2011 at 11:36 am

    I love, love, loveeee this line:

    Note – this does NOT remove good memories or change love feelings. It stops the secondary negative looping and sadness which is now a habit.

    I’ve had that habit. Such a bad one and soooo hard to break!

    Much Love,

  32.  #32Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Re 30 Mercedes I am glad to know I am not alone.

  33.  #33Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 11:53 am


    Ha ha Yeah my example was extreme. I was kind of having fun with the idea. 🙂

    Now I think about it I guess I have had good responses from men when I have asked for directions or questions about what DIY tools to use for certain jobs that kind of thing but I wasn’t wanting to date them.

    I guess I am looking for inspiration as to what I could say really like the great examples you have given.

    I am not always able to think fast on my feet so having some simple things to say is what I am getting at I think.



  34.  #34Gina on January 20, 2011 at 11:54 am

    ladies, im sitting here at 6.30am after only 3 hours sleep. …
    Im devastated, the man that 3 months ago i meant the whole world for him has now rejected me outright. I tried CD last night, i was not in the mood, i tried to project my feminine energy, i was just NOT into him. As the place we picked for dinner was close to my man’s place, i decided to part ways with my date for the night and paid him a visit. I rang his door, the lights are on – nothing. Called him on his mobile – nothing. I tried at least 3 times in an interval of 10 mins and parked (yes, parked outside his apartment) and thought that he might not be home. I waited another 10 mins and called again while outside looking at this window. NO answer! Around midnight, he turned off his lights and i was left there absolutely destroyed, thinking “is he with someone?”, “why did he reject me outright?”. I came home and checked my profile on the dating site i also met him, his profile is still there, he’s put more pics of himself, he added that he’s had his heart broken but still believes in “finding the right woman” and checked that he had been online just a few minutes before…..i know that i have broken just about every single rule in the book and probably i need to give up the fight and move on. My heart is breaking in million pieces right now and im more depressed than ever. I have deleted all messages ever sent or received by him and deleted his number (which i never wanted to learn). Im going cold turkey here…..i need help ladies!!! Im at breaking point here, today is not going to be a good day for me. I just want to crawl in a dark hole and just be there….can anyone give me some light please???

  35.  #35Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Feminiewoman @ 29

    Wow it is so interesting you raise those ideas.

    I have been dating with mixed results for the past few years but the one thing I have not been is feminine in the way I dress etc.

    I honestly cannot remember the last time I wore a dress or skirt. I did back when I worked with my friend and to a large extent he has only otherwise ever seen me in Jeans and going out wear.

    I used to be very feminine but for years now I have been wearing big baggy clothes and rarely wearing make up or taking pride in my appearance but he hasn’t really seen me during this time. The thought of wearing a dress or skirt is really frightening.

    I feel both apprehension and excitement to try that.

  36.  #36Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Im — “i think a lot of what we come to accept as ‘romantic love’ is obsession” — I absolutely agree!!

    Eckhart Tolle also has some things to say about that. The illusion of “in love.”

  37.  #37Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    RE 33 Wonderwoman I think you have hit on something there. I am just reading and repeating what I myself have been practicing to see the results I get. I have read that guys find dresses sexy.

    ” I have been wearing big baggy clothes” are you a bit “fluffy” or should I ask what does your NV say about your weight? I find plus size ladies who wear dresses that fit their body well sexy. Not saying that you are plus size just curious if that is the reason for the baggy clothes. You know now that things can fly below the radar of our consciousness but the guys pick up on it in our body language. I say your friend is a great candidate for practice, no expectations.

  38.  #38Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Re 33 Wonderwoman says ” have been dating with mixed results for the past few years but the one thing I have not been is feminine in the way I dress etc.”

    Rember first impression counts, guys are visual and 90% of communication is non-verbal. I personally want to come across feminine before having to use any feeling messages. I try to do it with information from Patty Contenta that Rori recommended in some earlier posts as well as my dressing that can be seen from across a room. As a matter of fact I was wearing a dress at church on Sunday and one guy I have never spoken to before but I knew have been noticing me for a couple of weeks called me over this Sunday and commented on how real I come across and how much I seem to enjoy myself. I did a speech with some others.

  39.  #39LonePlum on January 20, 2011 at 12:24 pm

  40.  #40LonePlum on January 20, 2011 at 12:25 pm

  41.  #41Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 12:39 pm


    I am happy to talk to about this. This is one of those aha moments for me because I guess it is a area I don’t go to much. Thank you so much for working through this with me.

    I used to be very healthy, I went to the gym everyday and watched what I ate within reason.

    A few years ago when my OCD and depression was really bad I went up 5 dress sizes and the past year I have drifted between the 2 extremes. When I was at my biggest I remember I hadn’t seen anyone for ages and then my best friend died. While the funeral was being arranged I had to speak to the partner of my friend that had died and he was drunk and he told me he couldn’t believe how big I had got and laughed. It hurt but only in as much as the only reason I had put on weight was because I had been so depressed and ill.

    I think I could be ok with my size now but I skin picked for a long time to relieve anxiety and this has left me with scars particularly around the chest, shoulders and upper back which are healing but as a result I tend to cover up.

    Also, many of my friends are very girly….some have had surgery to enlarge their breasts and dress in clothes that eccenuate their curves. I have never had big breasts even at my bigger sizes they have been quite small so I don’t feel like I fill my clothes in the right places.

    I don’t want to be down on myself but at the moment I really do struggle to find an area of my body that I could show off.

  42.  #42Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Clothes — I cannot find any dresses I look good in. 🙁 I used to wear dressess all the time — in college, and when my kids were little.

  43.  #43Ella on January 20, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    The Stop sign is good.

    When I was out and about I kept catching my thoughts and was able to feel better through using the STOP sign tool.

    I am going to practice it more….

    However tonight my feelings have caught up with me.

    I am feeling really horrible. TIGHT in my tummy.

    I feel confused, tense and let down.

    I may need to use the fall to the floor tool again in a bit (parents here right now).

    Mr Barman has gone silent… for the first time ever since this whole thing started a few months back.

    I know that it hsa not been very long, however my feelings are still quite intense… to label it could be co-dependant??

    But also a lil sad as I was hopeful about Mr Barman and felt loved/positive during the time I spent with him.

    I want to post our last few texts from last night because I really need some Siren input.

    I feel confused and desperate right now.

    Please help me with this.

  44.  #44Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Hmmmmm….I just reread my post about my body.

    I sound like the women on a programme I watch sometimes called How to look good naked. These women don’t see the beauty of their natural bodies. Sometimes when I watch it I am amazed because they are beautiful and they don’t see it.

    I feel down about my body.
    I feel like I am not attractive and that I am not feminine enough to wear beautiful girly clothes.

    I don’t want to feel unattractive.
    I want to wear beautiful floaty feminine dresses that make me feel lovely.

    I have lovely hair that people compliment me about all the time.
    I have a pretty face and people always think I am about ten years younger than I am.
    I have nice arms and soft skin.

    I am a beautiful person inside and out.
    I am pretty and would and look and feel wonderful in a dress.
    My friend would be amazed to see me looking so pretty.

  45.  #45Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    I am going to spend Friday night pampering myself and then go shopping on Saturday.

    I am going to pick up the dresses that I like and take them into the changing room and see what they look like.

    I am going to find a dress that really suits me and buy some lovely underwear that work well with the dress.

    I am excited at the prospect of finding a dress that shows off how beautiful I am.

  46.  #46Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 1:09 pm


    Thank you so much for giving me the courage to process my feelings about this. I am feeling very encouraged to get back to wearing more feminine clothes.

    This is a wonderful step for me.

    I shall keep you updated on how I get on.


  47.  #47Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Re 42 Wonder Woman that is beautiful. Thank you for giving suggestions that I can use to appreciate myself.

  48.  #48Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Re 39 I have heard Rori suggest that we are usually afraid to show men the “pimple” on our souls that we find unattractive and many times that is what men find attractive. That is what I believe vulnerability is. There is a movie maybe “Why did I get Married” where some friends went on a retreat and they were spilling each others secrets. One guy in it (I think Reese Witherspoon was in that movie) left his wife because she was heavy. Another guy in the town they were vacationing in took her on as a friend, encouraged her to go to the gym and eventually married her. When her x saw her she was happy, while he was miserable with his new “sexy” wife. Rori had mentioned the movie some time ago when I had just started reading her work. Hopefully someone else will know the movie and recommend it. It was worth seeing again for me in the context of relationships.

  49.  #49Ella on January 20, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Last texts between me and Mr B last night.

    I said that I wanted to reflect back to him what I saw and how it made me feel scared. I mentioned that he had taken this substance every week since he met me and that made me feel scared and sad. I said I don’t want explanations just for him to understand how I feel.

    Him: I do understand how you feel. All I can say is that if u give u and me a chance I’m positive you won’t be disappointed! xx

    Me: If that is really what you want I am open to that. But it will take time before I can feel trusting. I would be on the sidelines only while u sorted things out. I would not commit myself completely until it felt right/safe! x

    Him: What do you mean by on the sidelines? x

    Me: Don’t know how else to say. Feel safer holding back till feel safe.

    Him: I guarentee you will see how good we can be together. x

    Me: Lol, is that like a money back guarentee?

    Him: Its better than that. x

    Me: I am not feeling too sure about Friday (when we were going to meet for dinner) Might need a bit more time. Frightened of spending time with you and forgetting the issues. But that would just be glossing over the top.

    Him: It would be really good to talk to you face to face.

    Me: Yes but I need some time!

    And that was it.

    He didn’t reply and hasn’t been in touch since.

    Before this text convo he has said he would phone me today… that was when we were still meeting on Friday.

    I am so ‘in’ this situation that I really have no clear idea of what is actually happening.

    I would have loved to hear back from him
    “Yes I understand, take all the time you need. And get in touch when you feel ready’.

    Obviously that is not what happened.

    I just felt like maybe he was more interested in taking care of his needs than mine, but I am so confused I don’t really know.

    I don’t know whether I did wrong by refusing to meet when he asked to talk face to face… I mean I wanted to stay open to him, especially if he wants to talk about actually facing up to things.

    But my fear is we will meet and then he won’t even bring it up… this kinda thing has happened before.

    And I am not sure I am ready to spend any time with him till I feel like he is taking steps to deal with this issue.

    I feel scared by this silence, even though I asked for space.

    And I feel scared that he will just flame out now… and even though I know it is better to find this out now I don’t want it to happen.

    I don’t want to deal with the feelings when a man flames out again.

    Its like I am doing this but I don’t really feel brave enough! 🙁

    Sirens can you help me with this pls?

  50.  #50Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Re 47 Ella remember Man are from Mars Women are from Venus? Men go in their caves to process their emotions, they do NOT necessarily share it like we do, they are men. It is okay to feel scared but this could be a pattern in his life that is definitely a roadmap to how the relationship will be if it progresses further. For now I would say notice it and learn from it. It is in the space guys fall in love, process their feelings and feel masculine again. We feel feminine in the talking, sharing emotionality.

  51.  #51Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Ella, I think you did great with this convo.

    “I don’t want to deal with the feelings when a man flames out again.”

    This time you will be ready to deal with those painful feelings… and you will know that it really wasn’t YOU that caused him to flame out — it was his addiction.

    You have a lot of tools and support now to work through the feelings. Avoiding the feelings is similar to avoiding feelings through an addiction. Better to face the feelings, move through them, and onto a better life.

    Hugs and love,

  52.  #52Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Re 47 He is showing he respect you by giving you the space you requested. I am sure he understands that if he requested it he would want you to respect him. Also if you live by your word his respect for you will go up even more because he will recognize you as a confident woman. You are not afraid to express your feelings and stand by your word. You are not afraid that he is going anywhere. Guys love confident women.

  53.  #53Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    I wouldn’t even call it “him flaming out.”

    I would call it, “Ella holding her boundaries so that he can’t get in there and make her life miserable.”

  54.  #54happilyfree on January 20, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    im wondering if you guys can help me. i am on a dating site and i had a online chat with this guy. he kept saying i was so cautious and innocent and a goody goody which made me feel bad and annoyed because he doesnt even know me. I tried to say this makes me feel bad but every time I say something makes me uncomfortable or feel bad he uses it as thats why im so cautious so on. he said he was still trying to decide if that was cute or not. Are you kidding me? I dont want to feel like im being sized up and judged- i want to feel special and girlie. I kept using feeling messages as a much as I can but i almost feel like this guy doesnt care how you feel. Are some guys non responsive to feeling messages? Also I was trying to be myself and being sarcastic, making little jokes but now i am wondering if that doesnt come off as masculine or aggressive. do guys have a thing with being the funny ones?

  55.  #55Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Putting myself in your shoes… I know I would want with all my heart for him to feel so strongly for me that it would inspire him to give up drugs forever and we would live happily ever after.

    Unfortunately, addiction doesn’t work that way. It’s usually too strong. The addict has to completely hit bottom.

  56.  #56Ella on January 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Thanks guys…

    I want to be that confident woman… I am just struggling against ingrained beliefs and past experiences.

    And having trouble ‘flippinng’ this one right now.

    I remember I did it really well where I turned it all around with the last guy I dated who ended up still being connected to his ex…

    And I did not contact him, worked on me and felt good again… like he so missed out.

    Right now I am not able to do this here yet!

    I do feel tense, sad, scared.

    Not like a confident woman at all right now.

  57.  #57Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Happilyfree — sounds like your personalities just weren’t a good match.

    I love being funny, fun, cute, witty with guys online, and most of them find it very attractive.

  58.  #58happilyfree on January 20, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Thanks for the perspective Lucy that is helpful. i guess it triggered me because some crazy health stuff i have dealt with for a few yrs has caused me to become more guarded and cautious and so it really bugs me when people say that. also i had a stalker so being online i want to be careful. but of course he knows none of this. Its such a weird thing i wasnt particularly impressed with him but now i feel this weird pull to prove that im not what he says i am. Also it was strange because we had so many coicidences and weird things in common in our convo. like 4 different times we were like NO way!

    I feel afraid my humor is too blunt
    I feel afraid i accidentally insult men without realizing
    i feel afraid no one will take the time to understand my complexity
    i love my fear
    i love the part of me that wants to be understood and accepted by everyone

  59.  #59Ella on January 20, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Re 53

    Lucy – yes… this is so it.

    This is so what I want.


    I feel hopeless.

    I guess I may as well give up on that hope!

    Oh, god that feels so awful.

  60.  #60Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Re 54 I remember someone here said talk to the little girl in you that might be scared. Let her know you are there with her, will never abandon her and love, approve and accept her.

    Hugs to you.

  61.  #61Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Ella Dr. Paul Dobransky in CC From Casual to Committed gave an example of someone who was with a man on drugs suggetsting that you have to say no and stick with it. Otherwise he will find holes in your boundaries to seep through and that will cause your self-esteem to lower.

  62.  #62Ella on January 20, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Oh and with the guy from before who I flipped it with… he turned up a few months later and was all like ‘oh, I missed my chance with you’ and tried to start it up again!

    Too late though.

    Te he!

  63.  #63Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Ella, how would you feel about finding an Al-Anon meeting for yourself to go to? Al-Anon is support for friends and families of addicts. It might be really good for you — would help you see and heal the issues inside yourself that are coming up in this situation. <3

  64.  #64Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 1:52 pm



    I feel so much compassion for you, Ella, and tears right behind my eyes. I KNOW this is all going to lead you to your happily ever after with the right man for you.

    You are doing so great. <3

  65.  #65Ella on January 20, 2011 at 1:54 pm


    Yes, it might be a good idea.

    I used to attend them when I lived in the city… I have had alcoholic / substance user boyfriends in the past.

    I know it is an issue for me.

    And I know I have the tendancy to be co-dependant.

    As I said I thought I was past that now.

    My last relationship was not like that.

    I think I can change this one myself but I am definitely ‘back there’ right at this moment.

    With the tense, overwhelming feelings and urges and high / low feelings.

    Yes, maybe looking for a meeting might be an idea.

    I will watch what I do over the next couple of days and consider it.


  66.  #66Wonder Woman on January 20, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Femininewoman @ 46

    Thanks for the film recommendation. I will have a search for it.

    Yeah to men finding my imperfections attractive. 🙂

  67.  #67Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    RE 52 Happilyfree while reading your message the thing that kept coming to me was who made him the judge of your worth? Forget him

    Are some guys non responsive to feeling messages? Yes some are, immature guys only care about themselves.

  68.  #68happilyfree on January 20, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    thank you femininewomen that makes me feel alot better. I wanted to get an outside view because my head was kind of whirling with annoyance etc.

  69.  #69Simply Shannon on January 20, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Ella, Hello… this is your inner siren speaking…

    Our fear feels pretty intense right now, huh? I don’t really know how much of this has to do with him or us. When we wrote in the other post about feeling drained about the idea of dating again, alarm bells went off. Are we sticking with this guy just because he’s the only boy in the pool? Maybe we need to circular date some more and see what happens with this fish. What do you think? I’m willing to bet that if this guy had been one of three men we were seeing that he would be out of the rotation in a skinny minute. He crossed our boundary of no drugs. Maybe we should write out that boundary here. Seems like we’re waffling on it a bit. I’d like to know your version of the boundary.

    Don’t think about how much we love him, think about the boundary.

    If he crossed it, I feel 100% confident that God will bring us another man who will NOT cross that boundary and who will be even BETTER than Mr. Barman.


    Ella’s Detached From The Situation Voice

  70.  #70Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Re 56 “i love the part of me that wants to be understood and accepted by everyone”

    Happilyfree I have learnt from this site to say “I love, approve of, and accept myself”. It has helped me to lift my self esteem. Guys can only treat you as good as you treat yourself so I am now willing to open my mouth and say this to anyone and I have learnt to say it with a playful attitude and confident tone.

  71.  #71Simply Shannon on January 20, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    So I’m really applying The Secret mentality and guess what… it’s WORKING! Couple of things that have happened lately (aka in the past week).

    1.) Money mantra “I have more than enough” – Got a check in the mail today. Woot!
    2.) Relationship mantra “I’m being contacted more than enough” – I literally got a text message in the next five minutes from my CD who doesn’t contact much. Flip – who contacts me more than enough!
    3.) My request (per the book) to manifest something small as affirmation that this stuff works: “I will be contacted by a past beau soon” – The night I set this intention I saw a movie on TV (which I rarely watch) that was filmed in his home town. The movie he always commented on. This movie is OLD, like decades old and on a channel I never watch! I hit the wrong button and wham – there’s this movie. Haha!
    4.) I’ve been repeating “I am perfectly prepared and a little early” – I’ve been early for at least two things that I’m normally late for, including a doc appt today where I thought for sure I would be late. Nope – early. LOL!

    I’m practicing visualization and can literally see the inside of my dream house, with me, my hubby, and my kids in it. Excited! I believe this is already happening right now!!

    And I’m going to write this intention… I have a check with my name on it in the amount of $1,008,227.58. It’s dated 03/04/2011.

    Did you know that I’m a millionaire? Holla. 🙂

  72.  #72Lucy on January 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Okay. I feel inspired.

    I will be contacted by a past beau by midnight tonight 1/20/2011.


  73.  #73Senior Lady Vibe on January 20, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    @46: Femininewoman says:
    “…There is a movie maybe “Why did I get Married” where some friends went on a retreat and they were spilling each others secrets. One guy in it (I think Reese Witherspoon was in that movie) left his wife because she was heavy…”

    Thanks, FW. I checked the movie data base and “Why Did I Get Married” is a Tyler Perry film. I’ve never seen a Tyler Perry film but I’ve seen Madea clips and I expect it to be very funny.

    Reese Witherspoon isn’t in it but Janet Jackson is. There is also a “Why Did I Get Married Too” and setting is another couples annual break but this time in the Bahamas! I ordered both DVDs from my local public library. These should be fun…break out the popcorn!


  74.  #74Ella on January 20, 2011 at 4:10 pm


    I love your posts.

    They make me smile!

    And kinda help disappate a lot of the stress I am feeling.

    I love that you are my other voice! lol.

    Yes I have been thinking about CD-ing again.

    Not sure I am quite ready as i still have a few issues to work through here, but the idea is present in my mind.

    I will let it circulate for a while and see what happens.


  75.  #75LonePlum on January 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Ella 47

    ***Him: I do understand how you feel. All I can say is that if u give u and me a chance I’m positive you won’t be disappointed! Xx***
    ***Him: I guarentee you will see how good we can be together. X***

    Reminds me of X with meemee, when she relapsed a last time. Promises for the future instead of just acting right now.
    He was bargaining. You were strong to stand up to that.
    Your point is that you don’t want drugs in your life.
    You are giving him space and time to sort himself out. You will be back when he is clean. Or you will never be back if he is never clean. You refuse to enable.

    If he was in the “quit the drug” mode, he would address the issue, he would name it clearly.
    He is using words and future to replace the decision he can’t take NOW.
    He speaks as if your problem is not the drugs but his ability to make you happy. He is asking you to stick around to prove to you he can make you feel good.
    It sounds like he disconnects your happiness from the fact that you really don’t want to deal with drugs.
    He sounds like you felt scared of how he reacts when he is drugged, and all it would take is to make you stick around long enough so you can see by yourself he is “nice” to you, in spite of the drugs.

    *****Me: Yes but I need some time!****
    ***I would have loved to hear back from him
    “Yes I understand, take all the time you need. And get in touch when you feel ready’.***

    HE is the one who needs time to get off drugs, you are only giving him space to work on himself. You refuse to enable.
    The time will be as long as HE makes it.
    When he is clean HE can call you.

    Seems that you are seeing the situation the way around.
    (funny, that seems to be a constant among us. At some stage we see things the way around.)

    This is the answer that would have been lovely to hear back from him:
    “I don’t want you to feel bad. I have not “smoked” since such day at such hour and I take the decision right now to never again. Stick by me and you will observe I can do it.


    I don’t want you to feel bad. I have not “smoked” since such day at such hour and I take the decision right now to never again. Tell me what is the probation time. I understand you can’t stick around while you are not sure I can get off drugs. I will call you when the probation time is over.


    I don’t want you to feel bad. I want to never again “smoke” but I can’t be sure. Starting today I will be committed to do my best to stay away from drugs. I hope I will be able to do that. Tell me what is the probation time. I will call you when you can feel safe.”

    Anyway, you canceled your date, he insisted, and you asked for time.
    He respected your wish by keeping silent. He thinks YOU need time. Not sure he relates it to the decision you want him to take.
    He did not flame out on you.
    You are the one who took a healthy decision for both of you.
    Keep strong, you will make it through
    And … try to force yourself to get new dates. Try to forget about Mr Right for a while, just go out and see what gives…


  76.  #76Soul Sista on January 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    ella ~ (((((HUG)))))) i did not want to CD AT ALL but i realized the LDR (another co-dependent relationship) was starting to make me crazy again…crying, mood swings, feel hopeless…

    that’s when the lightbulb went off and i finally CD’d wether i wanted to or not. and it just about cured me.

    i was really missing him today…i had to work REALLY hard at not pining. i went on a long ride and sifted through some more potential CD’s.

    healed through another issue, that i think young guys are immature…and one really worked through it with me (i said i think we have a “maturity” disparity) and i realized he had not done anything to make me think that and i think more highly of him now, the way he talked with me and stuck with me, like real mature.

    i realized that some men just handle things immaturely, like the guy i am sad over, like somewhat toxic men, and not all guys, no matter what there age, are like that.

    CD’ng is keeping me sane, helping me open my heart and healing me.

  77.  #77Soul Sista on January 20, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    oh, i’m going out with this guy tonight, he’s 30 and an officer in the Marines.

  78.  #78G-Ro on January 20, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Today is not a good day for me (my last post was not even posted).

    I had a CD date last night and within minutes i just felt i was not into him. I sent him on his way (with my feminine energy of course) and since the place he picked for dinner was close to my bf’s place, i decided to go finally (after days of not making contact) and visit him.
    I buzzed to be let in – nothing, i saw the lights of his apartment and they were on. I kept buzzing – nothing. I called him a few times on the phone – nothing. I parked (yes, parked outside his apartment building) to see if he was actually home. I called one last time and then i saw his light turn off and ignored me the whole time. I was devastated and humiliated. My mind is going 100 miles an hour – was he there with someone? he hasn’t called me? I feel totally destroyed today and all i want to do is crawl in a dark hole and never come out. Ladies, i need help! I know i broke just everysingle one of the rules but i was in dire straits. Ladies, any light?

  79.  #79Dorothea on January 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Hey Sirens, I haven’t been around much because I have been dating a wonderful man. I would love to update you on what’s happened since LI dumped me for the bazillionth time.

    1. LI never contacted me again. It’s been nearly 2 weeks. Gosh, it feels like yesterday. Sometimes I miss him really bad. I assume this is normal. We dated for a year, and he knew how to make me feel GOOD. Yum.

    2. Mr. Rebound is by no means perfect. BUT when I tell him something feels uncomfortable, he listens, he talks to me, and not to just shut me up and quell my fears, but really to communicate. It feels incredible. He doesn’t shut down when I am not feeling peachy keen. There have been times when something has bothered me, and he will talk with me about it and try to reach some sort of understanding. He still takes care of himself and maintains who he is and communicates what that is clearly.

    Me being a woman who doesn’t easily snap out of feeling bad, he has said “hey can we just drop this now? i wanted to drop it a while ago, but it seems important to you so I kept talking about it with you.” It is PERFECT for me. This is just what I need to move on from feeling bad since I am such an anxious dweller. I really appreciate him taking some control in a gentle way. It makes me feel sooo turned on and safe.

    Today he told me something about a work problem he had and it made me feel uncomfortable and turned off, so I told him, and at first he said “just forget i said anything.” I said I didn’t want to just forget about something that feels uncomfortable, and he took a moment to say “what I mean is will you please just forgive me for this.”

    I said “you got it.” He said “really?”

    Haha, yes, really. Thank you for communicating with me.

  80.  #80snow angel on January 20, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    First time on this blog! Thank you!
    I really need this information right now. And thank you for letting me share why:
    I feel okay when I do not feel emotionally attached or a connection to a guy I am dating. Then date guy #2 shows up and I go insane. I felt a connection with him, then I start to feel insecure, panic, and obsessed by negative thoughts like ‘this will never work out’, ‘he doesn’t feel the same even though he says he does’, checking my email a million times, it is like HE has the power over me…. I am a really confident person in the rest of my life, but around men, I get all stirred up.
    Then I feel like a loser and want to run and hide.
    I will try the stop sign and singing…. I also imagine leaning back and unzipping my heart, then I imagine love spurting out of the top of me like a water fall and washing my body with a sparkly feeling. It sometimes helps.
    Thanks Rori and you wonderful women for a plethora of tools here. I AM NOT ALONE… YIPPEEE

  81.  #81Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Wonder Woman you might wish to check the following category When he is Emotionally Attached to his ex is the article I think.


  82.  #82Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Renee hope all is well with you.

  83.  #83Simply Shannon on January 20, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Plum, Wow. How do you do that? It’s like cutting through all the bullshit and seeing reality. Wow.

    He didn’t commit to anything. Haha! I didn’t see that! Just fluffy nice words. I will make you feel good… I guarantee it. Ummm… well I don’t feel okay RIGHT NOW. So what are you going to do about that?

    I intend to see reality.

    Ella, I don’t want to make you feel bad. Truly. But LonePlum’s post… wow she sees a lot!

  84.  #84archerie on January 20, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Hi Sirens ,

    Imagine my surprise to see Rosa’s post above !!
    She must be one hot Siren!

    Tee hee chuckle chuckle ..

    Now i am delighted the tools are helping lots of us.

    Ella ,, The Wave tool ..feel the sad desperate feelings and notice they come and go in waves…it comes omn and peaks and disappears and you can just tune in to your body and FEEL what you are feeling , eg gnawing or palpitations or sick or whatever..

    Notice that you CAN stand it , in fact observing the waves closely makes them subside.!!!

    If it hasnt stopped yet , flap your arms , sqwark like a chicken and giggle (fake it till you make it) . This will break the pattern.

    Next ask yourself what THOUGHT triggered the waves, was it remembering the text messages, seeing his face , missing the sex or whatever it was , then NOTICE that is a pattern ..that you CAN in fact just think of something else ..like a STOP sign , eyes up (To the RIGHT Daria ), hold 5 seconds …repeat as needed .

    And as Rosa said , it does work and it breaks the pining down , WHEN YOU WANT TO STOP PINING.

    The Rosy Archer ..

  85.  #85Simply Shannon on January 20, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Dorothea, Yeah!! That feels good to read!!

  86.  #86PrairieGirl on January 20, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    52: happilyfree

    When a CD guy says/does/texts something I don’t like… I just say “I feel turned off when I hear that”… so it’s about something a guy should be trying to AVOID- turning me OFF!

  87.  #87Gift_of_Love on January 20, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    I have to share something that makes me laugh and I hope you fellow sirens find the irony in it too. Some guy on a dating site “winked” at me. His profile photo had him wearing really ridiculous looking Star Trek glasses. I said something like I can’t see what you look like and he suggested we IM…with the video. His profile was not only not interesting to me, but it was kinda mean in some ways. I liked nothing about him. BUT with the no stone unturned feeling I agreed and I didn’t want to video with him because I was wearing a sweatshirt, etc. and he said oh I don’t care about that stuff. Long story short…after back and forth for a few minutes all of a sudden he disappeared. Screen went blank. I thought his computer got weird. BUT NO… he shut it off because he was disinterested! He emailed me Wanted to say goodbye. See you can meet people this way but I don’t think this is going to work. But it taught me that I should have stayed with my instincts and said no. Instead, he chose to reject me when I had no interest in him in the first place. But to just turn off the camera like that! That is a new one for me.

  88.  #88archerie on January 20, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Lone Plum ,

    That is sheer brilliance.

    I love how clearly you define Ella’s choice to either be in her power , choosing and taking action to stay away from drugs and unreliable people,


    to hang around waiting to see if maybe he can or maybe he cant be clean , ie she can remain at the mercy of HIS choice and HIS actions.

    Ella you are a true Siren ..STAY IN YOUR POWER BOOTS .

    I would love to hear you confidently state your boundaries !!!

  89.  #89Ragnell on January 20, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Hey there!

    I know that Rori has written something somewhere about how her man was not toxic but rather clueless. I don’t really remember if it was on the blog, on the website, or on some article for yourtango. Can someone locate it for me?

  90.  #90archerie on January 20, 2011 at 7:17 pm


    HA HA

    The Prodigal CD?
    I would love to read that one , oh boy..

    I have just had an email conversation with lawyer man who was a CD a couple of times recently then disappeared without warning. It seems he didnt know whether I liked him or not , and now he wants to meet and date as many women as he can!!! I feeling messaged my way through not wanting to be gossiped about in small town on dates, not wanting to be the sexual aggressor and feeling generally confused.

    I am wondering whether he is planning a reappearance ? If so maybe SLV you have some ideas or advice??

    Apart from Bring On The Fatted Calf ..:) 🙂

  91.  #91Femininewoman on January 20, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Re 71 SLV It is the one with Janet Jackson.

  92.  #92Senior Lady Vibe on January 20, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    @86: Femininewoman says:
    “Re 71 SLV It is the one with Janet Jackson.”

    I ordered both of them, WDIGM and WDIGM2.

    Thanks. I will enjoy.


  93.  #93Senior Lady Vibe on January 20, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    @80: archerie says:
    “..feel the sad desperate feelings and notice they come and go in wave..”

    Uh-huh, those feelings can come and go like acid flashbacks…


  94.  #94Katnina on January 20, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Shannon re: 67, I really admire your ability to write that!!
    I felt great reading it!

  95.  #95Senior Lady Vibe on January 20, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    @85: archerie says:

    ..I am wondering whether he is planning a reappearance ? If so maybe SLV you have some ideas or advice??..
    …Apart from Bring On The Fatted Calf .. 🙂 ”

    No advice, but some sirens are pining that disappearing guy has fallen off face of planet and that is usually not the case.

    CD will keep our houses filled with fatted calf and other sumptious goodies…and sometimes The Prodigal CD shows up again. We might not want him by then… but it’s fun to luxuriate with our new-found sumptious goodies…


  96.  #96caren on January 20, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    my husband and i are separated and it’s been almost 4 months on his birthday,about 2 months ago,he called after we had not spoken it seem like a decade,he called and said”let’s be friends”and the situation is quite different than it seems,we had a nasty separation with him wanting our son away from me but he found himself calling me for friendship and i don’t know how to take it or comprehend it after all the bad things that had just occured within 2 weeks of this phone call,so on and off we talk but i’m not so friendly to his call in the beginning i still have angry feelings about him wanting to hurt me more with wanting to take our son from me,he has a girlfriend but he stills calls me please help me try to understand is he calling me b/c i’m familiar or is he calling b/c he still cares?

  97.  #97Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Left right I was ding it tight right I mean.

    Im slightly dislecic like that I get it from my daddy and I like it

  98.  #98Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Defense .

    Ack I feel svared being told I did simething wring I wad unaware if. Like today at community service. I feel sad ley it pass kike a esve. Im in pain. Wavw. Wabr. Let it oasd I csn survive it. It kinda feels pleadurabke too noe. Hmmm. Yum. Dman wants to vome bisit me. I wanr to see the nee ashton kutcher movie. I know a cute guy thay likes me in timania that liks like him .

    Spelling on yhr androud gerrberr.

  99.  #99Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Wow dorothra I am indpired. I dont wsnt t just forg ery aboit something thst feels uncomfortable.

  100.  #100Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Yeah I cam sy what I want with my I dony eant statrments im free. Yay I dezervr iy this frels sobgood.

  101.  #101Daria on January 20, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Pardon mu anfroid. Im writing gor pkrasure . I feel overehelmed touched.

    I am crahing. I believe I was feeling pleasure.. I alliw myself ti feel it cintibuously. It ia safe.

  102.  #102Brenda on January 20, 2011 at 8:53 pm


    RE: #80 – You said, “Imagine my surprise to see Rosa’s post above !!
    She must be one hot Siren!”

    She is! She is! Tell her I said hello and big giant thank you! Her post about the stop sign helped me TREMENDOUSLY, and I’ve been using it every day! Hot Rosa! 😆

  103.  #103Brenda on January 20, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Gift of Love,

    RE: #83 – “Instead, he chose to reject me when I had no interest in him in the first place. But to just turn off the camera like that!”

    I feel so bad when people are so inconsiderate and rude.

  104.  #104Brenda on January 20, 2011 at 8:58 pm


    You teem to have devewoped a lisp! 😆

  105.  #105archerie on January 20, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Brenda that is just sooooo cool, and many big hugs to you 🙂 I am sure Rosa would be thrilled to see the changes .

    When I started using Rosa’s stuff it was very confronting to realise how i was letting my Pining Software just run on automatic.

    Then I soon understood it was very easy to do soft ware updates on myself and to choose not to run out dated programs.

    I loved the idea of all those thoughts being spam , just need to move them to junk and one click delete a whole bunch of them !

    Some of my thoughts that spiralled into depression and grief included
    “I’m just not attractive enough”
    “I am so tired i cant…”
    ” Its all too hard”
    “I am so alone”
    “my life is wasted”

    and they just get uglier and uglier …
    Me loves the Stop Sign .

    Hows that gaping hole in your chest now Brenda???

  106.  #106archerie on January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Sorry Daria ,

    I didnt mean to imply you did it wrong but it works best for the majority eyes up right.

    The eyes up right comes from NLP visual accessing cues and is to do with creating a visual memory , ie IMAGINING a visual picture, eyes up left is about REMEMBERING something, ie visual recall.

    We want to stop actual visual picture memories when we want to stop looping , so we look into the creating new pictures area (up right for 98% , maybe you are in the 2% thats reverse wired )then give ourselves a new picture (stop sign). Its all about interrupting a corrupt software program and changing it.

  107.  #107Brenda on January 20, 2011 at 10:05 pm


    RE: #99 – I admit, I am still struggling with it. But what I got, as suggested, is a little cloth pouch with pull ties at the top with little charms attached: a little silver heart, a pearl, a faux mounted tooth, an anchor, and a little metal plate that says, “believe”. I got two smooth, polished stones that have “soulmate” printed on them. I put the stones in the little pouch, and I will keep them in my purse, ready to add any other special items that represent my hope for my future romance with a wonderful man.

    A couple of days ago, Ryan texted me, “Please leave me alone.” Tonight, he called me briefly to ask how I was doing. And this is typical of him, pushing me away, then pulling me back in, over and over.

    I question if I should continue to use feeling messages with him, because he seems to take my emotions and use them like strings on a marionette. I am wondering if I should be nonchalant across the board with him, like, “I’m doing fine, thanks!” I wonder this since he has repeatedly used my tender emotions as weapons to assault my heart.

  108.  #108Jacqueline on January 20, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Ack! Brenda Ryan just pi**es me OFF when he does that!!! I definitely think you should go silent on the feeling messages, and maybe even on replying. It’d be like if you’d gotten off of sugar and sugar showed up in your mouth or something.

    He said he didn’t want to talk? okay….don’t talk!!! I know it seems rude and I always say I don’t wanna be like they are – but oooooooh, that’s such a push pull – it really sounds maybe illness talking? any which way – it’s not GOOD for you!!

    You do sound a lot better, and I am so glad!!!!

    (((((hugs)))))) and happy fireworks and sparklers for you!


  109.  #109Jacqueline on January 20, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    what if we look up and to the right and see a glowing heart??? shooting colors of pink and green and gold? and showering us with joy???

    even more fun!!

  110.  #110Jacqueline on January 20, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    And, OMGosh in a complet digression…

    Jessie James says 2010 was the best year of his life – he was falling in love with his best friend, Kat Von D…wow, oh, wow…

    I thought he had his tail between his legs, and instead he’s just going after his own happiness?

    That is so guy like, huh? But in a way, it’s inspiring – and so! you can find LOVE with not the perfect sweetheartest….but with the crazy chick that “get’s” you????

    Love that!!


  111.  #111Jacqueline on January 20, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    oooh, and I feel afraid – I gave one of those mystery shopping position ads on CL my name and address – and now I’m reading it’s money scamming. Argh…

    Put a fraud alert on my credit report, don’t gues they can do much with my name address and telephone number?

    But I’m not trusting CL for parttime jobs at this point. Cannot believe I didn’t snap before I sent the info!!

    Gonna see the heart…and stop thinking of it…

    Nite all darlings

  112.  #112Tina on January 20, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    I just in to say hi Sirens 🙂 I havnt had much time to check in here 🙂

  113.  #113archerie on January 21, 2011 at 12:50 am


    I just love the heart! I am doing it now …sparkles of pink and gold are washing over me…

    And Brenda, I also LUUUUV the bag of tricks 🙂
    I once had a special box with charms and little crystals. I wanted it to be symbolic of love, and love did come, but NOT from where i thought it should come ..

    I agree with Jacqueline about Ryan to ing and fro ing . I found the ONLY way for me to stop this in my G situation was absolute no contact .I found the tools all help greatly . I did it successfully for 5 months until the famous cancer relapse when i let him back in and he did it all over again. I have now been a G- free woman for 41 days and PROUD of it. I truly liken it to giving up a smoking addiction.

    What also helped me , in addition to all Roris wonderful material , was the Baggage Reclaim site.

  114.  #114marina on January 21, 2011 at 1:06 am


    I learned during a NLP workshop that some people are the opposite (left handed vs. right handed)

    So if it doesn’t work to use the Stop sign, or a big loving heart 😉 when you look at the right top, then it might work if you do it at the left top.

    Anyway, gotta go to work. BF4 is snoring next to me, I so want to stay here next to him. But I promised some co-workers to check their work today.
    Have a lovely day y’all.

  115.  #115marina on January 21, 2011 at 1:13 am

    @#Lone Plum 73
    Wow,thankyou for making that clear.
    I felt it was like that when I read it, but I don’t think I could have stated it that clearly…

    Learning learning learning! 😀

  116.  #116Dorothea on January 21, 2011 at 1:57 am

    Brenda 101
    Nonchalant in this case is nonreal. If it were me I would use a really short statement like i don’t want to talk to you right now. I feel pushed and pulled around after reading that text to leave you alone. i am going to go now, bye.

    or something short like that that works for you

  117.  #117Senior Lady Vibe on January 21, 2011 at 5:09 am

    @101: Brenda says:

    “… I wonder this since he has repeatedly used my tender emotions as weapons to assault my heart…”

    Brenda, these are your thoughts; this is where the Rosa techniques will help you.

    The actual Ryan actions and behavior that you described are very typical. I do not believe that you are a special target of them.

    When my brother tells any of us that he “doesn’t want to be bothered”, or anything like that, or he isn’t coming to the holiday party, etc etc, we just say “OK, luv ya…” and step back into our lives. Occasionally when the party is over, I might take a plate of cookies over (or not) and talk for about three minutes.

    I realize this is much more difficult for you as you are in romantic love and attached to Ryan in a different way, but we do all love my brother very much and we know he loves us too in the way that he can.

    I hope this helps a little…


  118.  #118Senior Lady Vibe on January 21, 2011 at 5:19 am

    @102: Jacqueline says:

    “…but oooooooh, that’s such a push pull – it really sounds maybe illness talking?…”

    Yes, Jacqueline, that’s the impression I have. Those behaviours can be be annoying, disappointing and unpleasant. When things are going well it’s easy to forget we are dealing with a mentally ill personal.


  119.  #119Senior Lady Vibe on January 21, 2011 at 5:21 am

    Oops… 😳

    Little brain typo… I meant:
    When things are going well it’s easy to forget we are dealing with a mentally ill *person*.


  120.  #120Senior Lady Vibe on January 21, 2011 at 5:26 am

    @107: archerie says:
    “…What also helped me , in addition to all Roris wonderful material , was the Baggage Reclaim site…”

    I concur. If “no closure, back of horse” [and I love! this] isn’t helping, going ninja drastic using “No Contact Rule” might be the thing and it works beautifully in tandem with Rori’s teaching.

    There are many different situations and many ways to…”carry on…and make it work!” to keep our lives sane and happy.


  121.  #121Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 5:57 am

    Re 101 Brenda remember Robin in the previous attitude shift post:

    “She went “silent” – which is a lovely way to take a breath and step back – and she worked to maintain an attitude that WASN”T about HIM!”

    Remember Ryan knows you, he knows your normal responses so my guess would be that until you focus on becoming mysterious in a way that he is not used to he will push and pull. Sometimes they come back because they are either bored or wondering if you still have that loving feeling. How about keeping him guessing? It is not game playing it is applying “appropriate behavior for the particular situation. Create the pause, choose your words or no words and be surprised. What do you think?

  122.  #122Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 6:07 am

    Just read that s*x is one of the dating game’s pastimes because “men don’t feel the same
    connection women do after sex.

    In fact, they feel the opposite — they feel the need for privacy.

    That’s why, more often than you’d like, the men you have sex with end up sleeping facing away from you, snoring blissfully!

    WHAT TO DO: Don’t rush things into the bedroom, because it WON’T strengthen the relationship no matter how strongly you feel for him!

    WHAT WE THINK: Many of us think that men should love us “for who we are.” Since it’s his job to find us and carry the relationship for us, we shouldn’t really
    do much to make the relationship work. He should discover us for the rare gems that we really are… right?

    WHAT MEN THINK: When it comes to “high-aintenance” women – that is, women who expect to be pampered and treated like queens by the men in their lives — men tend to leave them well alone.

    They know these women are too much trouble to keep happy!”

    I am so happy that I am learning how to take care of myself and take my focus away from men.

  123.  #123Shelly on January 21, 2011 at 6:10 am

    My husband is 9 years older than I. He is distant and not interested in getting physical close in anyway. He is 52 and says he is just too tired. He has been working 7 days a week at one job and is a part time farmer. I have been patient and a little concern if it’s his health. I know nature can be a factor. Do you have any advice as to how I need to act and react?

  124.  #124Andi on January 21, 2011 at 6:16 am

    Wow, I need to try this stop sign technique.

  125.  #125Andi on January 21, 2011 at 6:22 am

    **Blind Date Advice Alert!**

    I have a blind date tonight with someone I met online.

    We pretty much know zero about each other…I have already confessed my fear of getting deer in the headlights on CD first dates…I got some helpful suggestions on a previous thread…but I am open to any more 1st date advice from all of you sirens! Pre-date jitters…Thank you…xoxox

  126.  #126Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Re 118 Why am I having the jitters? Do I have expectations for a particular outcome? Did he say something over the phone that has me uncomfortable? Do I believe I can carry a good conversation? Do I believe I know how to have fun? Am I looking for Mr. Right? Have I experienced and bad first date in the past?

    I say dress feminine so you feel in your feminine power, practice the stop sign to shut down your brain, focus on having fun and learning about how you feel while in front on the man. Let him lead the conversation so you can learn about the man, be comfortable with silences, listen to Rori CDs before the date and practice some tools while on the date such listening at level 2 and be surprised.

  127.  #127Senior Lady Vibe on January 21, 2011 at 8:06 am

    @116: Femininewoman says:
    “…Just read that…”



  128.  #128Lori on January 21, 2011 at 8:16 am


    re #118

    Where did you meet your blind date? What was it about him that intrigued you enough to make you want to meet him in person? Tell us a little ablout him here and it will remind you why you accepted the date!

    What I do is take away the pressure of an outcome. I just go about as if I’m meeting a potential FRIEND for the first time and not necessarily a love connection. That way, I don’t feel disappointed if there’s no chemistry. The bonus to that is, some of my dearest friends now are blind dates that “failed” in the romantic area!

  129.  #129Amy on January 21, 2011 at 8:37 am

    I feel scared right now! I told my bf the other day that he couldn’t have all of me, if I just had some of him; and that I wanted the option to see other people (I still want to date him too though). Well, after I said that…he has been stepping up this week. Calling me, wanting to see me more, telling me he is thinking of me, etc. Are time together is special just by being together? However, today I woke up feeling scared that he may step back again. I know that if he does, I just keep leaning back and go about my life because I am looking out for me now and being happy being me. I want someone who loves that about me and doesn’t want to let that go (I feel and believe that could be him, but I can’t put on my eggs in his basket right now). Anyways, I guess I just need a little pep-talk if possible. 🙂

    Thanks ladies! Happy Friday xoxo

  130.  #130cautiously opening up on January 21, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Hi all, this is my first time writing – already helped just by reading these posts and realizing I have a lot of company in learning about vulnerability and trusting myself.

    I have been trying to circular date, and I was communicating with a guy from an online site these past 2 weeks. In the first week of our communication, he said he thought we might be life partners. I wasn’t so sure, and told him, and felt displeased (and didn’t tell him) because I have had other guys tell me the exact same thing early on, and it’s never gone anywhere – I actually feel disrespected hearing that kind of thing so early on – is that weird of me? We kept communicating, but I became more and more dissatisfied with the level of effort he was making to connect with me. His words were very nice, but he wasn’t trying to contact me as much as I thought he should given the level of interest he was expressing, and I lost interest. Instead of just dropping it and not writing him back, I wanted to show him respect by telling him that I wasn’t interested any longer. We had an email exchange that eventually ended up with mutual well-wishes, but he expressed that I had been giving him inconsistent messages, and that it was a shock for him to hear that I wasn’t interested anymore.

    I’m confused about this. I have a pattern of backing away from relationships (I sometimes feel like *I’m* the guy!), and I honestly don’t know if I’m doing it for healthy reasons (I’m not getting what I need), or unhealthy reasons (I am scared of being intimate or vulnerable with another person?). The truth is that once I heard this guy’s voice on the phone I knew I wasn’t attracted to him, because he sounded effeminate to me, and he seemed so absolutely and good-naturedly clueless about how to be considerate of me, although I think he’s probably a trustworthy person with integrity. I don’t know how to be in integrity with myself and date guys I know I’m not interested in. An interesting thought just occurred to me – is circular dating supposed to be with guys I AM interested in? That seems a lot scarier.

    I think I sometimes doubt whether I know what I’m doing, or think I’m doing something wrong. I really do have the belief that a man should step up and make the effort to contact me, and when he contacts me his full attention should be on me – if not, that doesn’t feel like I’m being valued. I guess I just want a second opinion about this – am I being haughty in some way and need to be more humble? Or is are my expectations good and healthy??

    Thanks for listening!

  131.  #131Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Re 122

    Rori’s words ” The thing is, men often DO know when they’ve met their “one.” (Even though it’s often hard for us to tell by the way they act and talk, and
    sometimes it scares us off just to think it might
    be true.)

    And that’s just one more reason why “waiting”
    is such a bad idea.

    If we just hang around, waiting when a man is
    stalled – he just loses interest in us, bit by
    bit, day by day.

    It’s like putting a sign around our neck that
    says: “I’m waiting for YOU.”

    We close down our hearts to all other men.

    We spend our time thinking about HIM.

    We WAIT.

    The problem with waiting is not what it does to
    him – though it affects him about as negatively as
    anything we can possibly do.

    The problem is what it does to US.

    Waiting says to the world: My life is on hold
    for this man.

    It says to the world: I don’t think much of
    myself, I have nothing worthwhile to do, there are
    no men who are interested in me besides this one,
    so I’m waiting for HIM.

    And what that looks like to the world, and to
    HIM, is a lack of self-esteem.

    It looks like insecurity and neediness.

    So – how do you wait a reasonable length of
    time for a man to make up his mind about you
    without looking like you’re waiting?

    The simple answer is: You don’t wait.

    Not ever.

  132.  #132Wonder Woman on January 21, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Simply Shannon @ 69

    I too have been working with the secret.

    Like you I have been working on the mantra that there is enough money and twice in the past few weeks I have had unexpected money appear in the bank in perfect timing for Christmas and beyond. At this rate this forum could well become a forum for millionaires…..!! 🙂

    I have been looking at the houses I dream of buying and used Alicias advice such creating a vision board and sending myself emails congratulating myself on my success and emails I would love to receive from my perfect man. It’s such fun.

    I am supporting your mantras and sending good vibrations your way. I can’t wait for you to receive that cheque.

    🙂 x

  133.  #133Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Re 122 Amy I say if he steps back just understand that that is what men do. He might just need to miss you to understand that he cannot bear to be without you. He steps up because he knows he wants you and he knows you want him to step up. He also needs to want to step up for himself. Doing it just because you want it could backfire in the long run so I say don’t wait, just live until he steps up. We have to have faith that things will work in our favor.

  134.  #134Amy on January 21, 2011 at 10:02 am

    RE 125 Femininewoman: You are my saving grace today! This is exactly what I need to be reminded of…thank you for that. I feel so happy and excited now… because I feel as if I am really starting to get this whole RR of doing things and I am LOVING it!!!

    Thanks a thousand times over hun, you truly are the best!!

  135.  #135Wonder Woman on January 21, 2011 at 10:07 am

    I love the idea that my beliefs can vibrationally help to support another persons hopes and dreams. It is such a good feeling to think I am helping to make someones dreams a reality.

    I believe that all the Sirens here are on the path to their happy ever after and that all the positive things that they want and desire are on there way to them right now. 🙂 x

  136.  #136Lynn on January 21, 2011 at 10:21 am

    The Stop Sign is a GREAT tactic! I have used it in the past when I found myself obsessing over a toxic friendship I had (and finally ended last year). But even after it ended, I found my brain STILL looping around all the negative thoughts about this person and how I was treated, even criticizing myself for taking things “too personally,” and finally my therapist at the time gave me this Stop Sign suggestion.
    Going off of this tip, too:
    “make a list of your common thought triggers IN WRITING.”
    What I did in my previous Stop Sign experience was make a list of WHY this person was toxic. How did this person affect me negatively? Why didn’t this friendship have value anymore? It was kind of a support system for myself, from myself, that reminded me why it was no longer healthy to keep this person in my life. Then, I counted the number of items on the list. There were 12 reasons. So, every time I needed to stop and see that Stop Sign when my mind would start looping, I would flip the sign over and imagine a big, lit-up number 12 on the back of the sign, too. It was a screaming reminder that there were 12 reasons to STOP thinking about something so unhealthy and negative! Eventually, my mind stopped looping and I began to see and appreciate those healthy, wonderful people who ARE in my life, right in front of me, and should be. Now, my thoughts stay centered around those kinds of friends, and I never once shed a tear over losing that friend. I still think about that person sometimes, but the Stop Sign method really blocked myself from beating myself up any longer about what should or shouldn’t have happened in that friendship. I highly recommend this tool when it comes to negative thinking!

  137.  #137Ella on January 21, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Hey Loneplum,

    Thanks so much for 73…

    It is a brilliant and insightful post as usual!

    Actually when we were talking before he pretty much said:

    “I don’t want you to feel bad and I take the decision right now to never again (do the substance – btw it is not smoking). Stick by me and you will observe I can do it.”

    And that is when I first said “I need to see that over time so that I can feel trusting. I need to see the issue being worked on”

    I also said I found it hard to trust snap decisions like that when I felt that the scale of the problem had not really been acknowledged.

    I said this bc I think that it is easy for people to SAY anything.

    I need to see ACTION! to feel safe and trusting.

    What do you think?

    I am very doubtful of myself and the things I am saying right now… it feels like tendethooks although ultimately I do realise that nothing I say can influence the situation that much, if at all…

    Only he can.

    But it always still feels like I need to say the right thing.

    I am right to be keeping him at arms length right now until or unless he proves himself?

  138.  #138Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Re 129 Ella Would you mind my suggesting that you that out the “I need” from your statements. It might come across as needy and controlling to guys. I guess I would say “I want to be able to trust you but actions speak louder than words”. You also don’t need him to do it for you. His commitment to his own wellbeing demonstrates that he can take care of you, his actions in taking care of himself will build the trust but I am not sure I would ask for that.

  139.  #139Daria on January 21, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Ella I dont want to br in a relationsgip w a man hat does drugs either so I told my ladt cd I dont wanr to see it. At first I eas cool seeung itand him in public but when me and him were aline I felt visibly turnrd off and I ess goba walk out

    He told me u wiuls nevet see ut again.

    I dont wan to ductate his chives… I dint want that in my life to whete it creepa me. Ugh.

  140.  #140Ella on January 21, 2011 at 11:23 am


    I feel confused!

    He did immediately say he would give it up. He said he wouldn’t do it again… my thinking was if he could have done that, and wanted to, he would have already.

    He said he would stop right now to be with me… and I said No he had to stop for him otherwise it would never work!

    Am I being too difficult / negative?

    Its just that I kinda want more than words. Am I wrong to test this?

    Maybe he can just give it up like that, and I have no doubt his intentions are good. But my understanding of addiction is not usually that simple.

    Anyway I want to be sure before I go ‘ok honni, I trust you’.

    Also I feel fear that if he ‘promises’ me he is not going to do it that it will put me in an akward position bc if he is addicted then he will doubtless lie to me, and that feels confusing.

    I don’t want to be forced into that position of suspicious girlfriend. And I don’t want to have to worry about this either.

    I want to be reassured that I am doing ok here with this.

    I know soon I need to get to taking the focus off him…

    That is the next babystep!

  141.  #141Ella on January 21, 2011 at 11:26 am


    He doesn’t do it in front of me either…

    But he does it and it affects him and then I speak to him on the phone or see him the next day and he is a mess.

    And I feel totally turned off.

  142.  #142Ella on January 21, 2011 at 11:29 am


    I think I worded it wrongly here… I don’t think I did actually say ‘I need’ to him.

    I am quite good with using my feeling messages and wants and don’t wants when I speak to men…

    However I will watch my language for that, just in case I am doing it unconsciously!

    Thank you!


  143.  #143Ella on January 21, 2011 at 11:39 am

    He text me last night that he misses me and is crushed to think that we might not go any further.

    He just text me again tonight…

    I think he might ask to see me….

    Arghh, of course I want to see him but surely that defeats the object?

    I feel confused.

    Do I follow my feelings here… trust my boundaries?

    Not even sure exactly what my boundaries are around this… I can’t say no drugs at all bc I have done certain things in the past.

    Nothing heavy.

    And I could not say I would never do it again.

    But I do not want it to be a part of my everyday life and this is what I told Mr B.

    Is this a clear enough boundary?

  144.  #144Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Re 135 I say trust your boundaries. Remember Meemee they push and test us. When they feel the pull back they step forward. You are saying no to the drugs not to him? I am wondering if you should review the Rori Third Way in this situation. I don’t know much about drug addiction but they can come clean. I wonder if asking what if anything he has thought about doing would be invasive? What if he has done some research on rehab programs that he would want to share with you or ask you about? What if he wanted to find out if he checked himself into one if you would be willing to visit? Has any discussion happened around that? Curious..

  145.  #145Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Re 129 Ella my humble opinion is ““I need to see that over time so that I can feel trusting. I need to see the issue being worked on” communicates that you will still be ‘seeing’ him while he works on the issue so saying otherwise might cuase him to understand that you are not keeping your words. Does that make sense? Do you suggest taking a break? What would that break look like?

  146.  #146Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    I want to throw in my two cents on this really, really interesting to me phenomenon of men referring to us as wife and/or making comments that seem to reflect commitment in a relationship that is stalling or stalled. My last guy, Mr. Carrot, would sometimes do this. He would say things like, “In 30 years, we’ll look back on this and laugh”, or “Sweetie, you’ll fit into my family just fine,” or “I don’t think I’d want to circumcise my son, would you?” All these things made me feel hopeful. I would build them up in my mind. BUT, when push came to shove, he would remind me, “Sweetie, we are NOT married”, or once we were in the grocery store and the cashier would say, “Thanks, Mr and Mrs H… and have a great day.” He made a point of telling her that we were not married and what my real last name is. I would feel shattered in these moments. Shattered out of my belief in my PRETEND relationship. (I feel angry. I also feel clear. ) Could it be that these statements and pretending are a part of the way in which they help us string ourselves along? I know they don’t consciously trick us or take advantage of us in a deliberate, hurtful way, but could it be that they “help” us pretend that we have the relationship we want, in hopes that we’ll stick around longer? I’d venture to say that this is what was happening in my relationship.

  147.  #147Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    @Amy’s 122 and Feminine’s 123

    I loved reading RR’s email today. I’ve read it before, but it made me feel so good re-reading it. I feel like I “did it right” when I let Mr. Carrot know that I was going to start dating again, didn’t want to pressure him, want to be married to someone who feels crazy about me, etc. Amy, I feel happy for you and a little envious that your man is stepping up more. Mine stepped completely away and I haven’t heard or seen him for over 3 months. But I still feel I did the right thing by standing up for myself and I have gained so much strength and self esteem and love from doing it that I feel really happy I did. So, what I’m trying to say is that I am living what you fear most will happen and I feel good! I’m okay! I’m way better than okay! I know I’ve opened up myself and my life so that what I want can come in and find me.

  148.  #148Simply Shannon on January 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Ella, keep writing/fleshing out this boundary until it becomes clear to YOU. Nobody else matters, only you.

    I believe you’ll uncover the issue as you dig into what you want this boundary to be. Right now it feels wishy-washy, waffly. Not solid.

  149.  #149Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    @ Soul Sista’s 74

    Big hug to you! I admire your bravery and I guess that means I admire my own… I am learning first hand, too that CDing heals us. Over the last few days I have been so busy e-mailing, sifting through and making plans with men I’ve conjured out of nowhere on craigslist, that I, for the first time, forgot to miss Mr. Carrot and felt a lot of distance from him inside me. Yay!!!!! Hearing you talk about it helps me realize it’s real.

  150.  #150Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Re 138 Thanks Nancy for that persepctive you could be right. What I do is play along in the moment by just extending my hand but I never repeat it or act like I am. I was also asked “will you be doing such and thus when we get married” I said I don’t intend to get married to be fighting when I get there the decision will be made together but I totally lean back with guys who use such comments nows. I refuse to get sucked in. I go as far as saying I am committed to getting married I don’t know with whom but now it is just a matter of when. I also guard myself from anything kind of jealousy, I am not going there.

  151.  #151Ella on January 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm


    Yes I agree,

    I think it is bc I have mixed feelings about my own use / ideas about drugs…

    Ie: what feels ok and what is not healthy.

    And whether I want to stop completely forever.

    I have always felt conflicted about this. Kinda swing between quite relaxed and very negative about drug use.

    I used them a lot when I was younger (teenager) to cope with bereavement of parent…

    These days hardly ever do but I have never quite left them completely behind either, even if just alcohol.

  152.  #152Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:45 pm


    RE: #102 – Thank you so much for your kind words and your feedback. Yes, I have decided I need to protect my heart by no longer using feeling messages with him. Yes, it is his illness speaking. It is a cat and mouse game, and he continues to toy with and analyze my heart. It is not healthy.

    I think if he calls or texts, I will talk to him, but I will just say, “I’m doing well!” and be upbeat, no matter how I feel. And just talk to him about generic things.

    Here are some bright yellow and red tulips for you, in hopes of an early spring! 🙂

  153.  #153Femininewoman on January 21, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Re 143 Ella I am wondering if you shared this with him? It seems vulnerable to me and explain your fear/resistance around the issue that could bring more understanding, not that you owe him any explanation.

  154.  #154Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Jacqueline (and Archerie),

    RE: #103 – You said, “what if we look up and to the right and see a glowing heart??? shooting colors of pink and green and gold? and showering us with joy???

    even more fun!!”

    Sounds good to me! And to me, it will be the heart of Je*sus, filling me, being my heart beat, loving me.

  155.  #155Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm


    RE: #104 – You said, “Jessie James says 2010 was the best year of his life – he was falling in love with his best friend, Kat Von D…wow, oh, wow…

    I thought he had his tail between his legs, and instead he’s just going after his own happiness?”

    He DOES have a tail between his legs…some call it a penis. I call it a devil tail with an arrow end…and horns on his head. He was so cruel to Sandra Bullock, and she didn’t deserve that.

  156.  #156Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:56 pm


    RE: #105 – You said, “oooh, and I feel afraid – I gave one of those mystery shopping position ads on CL my name and address – and now I’m reading it’s money scamming. Argh…”

    I did the same recently. I feel vulnerable.

  157.  #157Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:57 pm


    RE: #106 – Hey, Tina! I feel happy to see you back here! I’ve missed you and your wild times!

  158.  #158Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm


    RE: #107 – Thanks for your feedback! I am still deciding that about no contact. In the meantime, I just joined a new dating site, Christian Mingles.

    What helps me most is to continue to pray for Ryan every day. And I told him I am doing that.

  159.  #159Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    @SS’s 69

    I’m going to read the rest of The Secret. I opened it up and read the money chapter(s) about a year ago and visualized checks coming in the mail and viola! I’ve had several unexpected checks this year, including one for $8000. Not bad!
    Now I’m going to read the rest and apply it to my married life – which I also believe is happening right now!
    Today, I’m going to make my wedding story board. I’ll get married in Hawaii.
    I just sent myself an e-mail from my husband to be. He can’t stand waiting for 8 more days and wants me to get on a plane with him tonight and marry him tomorrow morning as the sun rises… a symbol of our new beginning together.
    I Like this!

  160.  #160Jacqueline on January 21, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    oooh, I love it Brenda – the tulips! and an early spring – it has been really so MILD here, a gift of contrast from last winter – the pear trees are already fuzzy budding…and today’s a bright and sunny treasure that I needed.

    Thank you for taking my words as being on your side – you know I am!

    And that scamming thing? UGH….looked like a for real secret shopper thing too – but when I researched it I found they might send you bogus money orders and try to get you to put them in your bank account; but it’s not – usually – id theft they’re after, more like money laundering.

    Somehow that made me feel better – but yeah, I was so vulnerable – and realized how much I HATE that feeling…guess I should do some work around that.

    And the heart? It is the heart of Jss in a sense, and it’s also the color’s of the heart chakra’s as well -so right on.

    I don’t know about Jessie and Sandra – she kind of went after and got what she wanted too – 2 hit movies, adopting a child, moving to where? New Orleans….

    I think they were very mismatched and if anything it was her that was playing a “role” – the I’ll quit glamming it for the biker guy adventure.

    But it’s cool that they both seem happy and she never seemed broken hearted to me – I saw her joking saying please yall go back to picking on me.

    We project a lot onto public figures – her Julia….

    JJames said sometimes the media and the public get it wrong. That said, Kat V.D…..wow oh wow….so not my cup of tea, but must be a really strong individualist!!

    Happy tulips and crocuses and clovers with 4 leafs…to all!

  161.  #161Andi on January 21, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Thank you FeminineWoman and Lori…

    re: 121, 119

    I met him on an online dating site that I trust..kinda made him jump through hoops to meet me…very little phone/text contact….

    What I know is he is he is tall, engineer, seems to be pretty classy and has a nice accent 🙂 …we are going to have drinks…

    I like the idea of approaching it as I might meet a friend (at least to make me relax.) I just overthink and will say to myself…(how do I stop leaning forward and controlling the tempo of the conversation…!)

    I know I will be fine, butterflies are good…I really have no expectations except to be able to be myself and not too uptight the first time I meet him! lol…

    Got to go get ready! Have a great night everyone!

  162.  #162Daria on January 21, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Nancy and all – to me men talk about future as part of wooing . Its with good intentions. Me likey.

  163.  #163Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 1:27 pm


    RE: #110 – You said, i don’t want to talk to you right now. I feel pushed and pulled around after reading that text to leave you alone. i am going to go now, bye.”

    I like this. I appreciate your feedback. The way I see it, it’s not so much that I’m not being real, it’s that I’m pushing him out of the inner circle of my life. For example, when someone with whom I’m acquainted asks me, “How are you?”, I typically say, “Good!” You don’t let just anyone into your inner circle. I feel good being genuine, but I would not be genuine with someone who abuses me.

    His games have gone on long enough to prove that they are abuse. He is toying with me psychologically. So I need to decide if I am going to cut it off completely myself or just have a very limited friendship.

    What you suggested as a feeling message is a very good idea, and I will consider it as a possible approach.

  164.  #164Ella on January 21, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Me likey too 🙂

  165.  #165Ella on January 21, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Oh, I feel tipsy! ooops!

  166.  #166Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Fem Woman,

    RE: #115 – You said, “Remember Ryan knows you, he knows your normal responses so my guess would be that until you focus on becoming mysterious in a way that he is not used to he will push and pull. Sometimes they come back because they are either bored or wondering if you still have that loving feeling. How about keeping him guessing? It is not game playing it is applying “appropriate behavior for the particular situation. Create the pause, choose your words or no words and be surprised. What do you think?”

    Right on! That’s exactly the approach I am looking at.

  167.  #167Ella on January 21, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Right F8ck it!

    He is a f8cking d8ck.

    I HATE him….

    F8ck him seriously f8ck him!

    Whatever loser.

    I am DONE!



    Why am I doing this?

    What is the f-in point?

    No f-in point… none at all…

    its just all a load of lies and cr8p/

    I’ve had enough.

    I want more.

    I got a couple of options.

    Gonna look into those options.

  168.  #168Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 2:02 pm


    RE: #143 – I drink socially, and I would consider smoking ganja again (I don’t cuz I don’t want to spend the money and because my career requires drug tests when I start a new job). But I could take it or leave it.

    I have lived with and loved addicts. It’s a totally different situation. If they are out of control with it, it affects the relationship very negatively.

    Some things you just have to live to understand. But I say again,


    I myself have already run the gamut of addicts promising they will stop. It almost destroyed my life, more than once, to take their word for it.

  169.  #169LonePlum on January 21, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Ella 135

    ***He text me last night that he misses me and is crushed to think that we might not go any further.***

    Considering you told him you want him but you don’t want the addiction, what is he saying here?
    Not sure, but would he be unconsciously knowing that he can’t stop the addiction so you might not come back?

    I am also thinking he might have lied because he feels your ambivalence about your boundaries.
    You SAY you don’t want drugs in your life but you don’t really feel drug in itself is wrong, you are ready to accept certain things.
    So he tried his luck to check your boundaries.
    Would his text mean he thinks you are taking time to ask yourself if you can push your boundaries for him?
    Which is what you are doing, really, you are doubting yourself.
    So he might be just waiting to see if you decide to come back to him, accepting his habit, or if you decide to keep your life clean off drugs. And his text would be saying he is afraid you decide to keep clean off drugs.

    What are your boundaries around illegal substances, alcohol, cigarettes, etc…. etc…etc..?
    Write them down, it is very important if you want to know what type of relationship you want.
    May it be with him or a new man.
    You need to know your own boundaries if you want to find your husband.
    Once you feel clear inside yourself, you’ll know what to tell Mr Barman and you’ll accept better men in your Cdating pool


  170.  #170Ella on January 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm



    This is what I have thought too… from his texts… which a few have said he is kinda sad to have lost me…

    Its like, well you haven’t lost me if you can do without the addiction.

    So I am kinda taking his texts to mean he can’t. So kinda a goodbye…

    So sad.

    And to compound my thoughts on this…

    he text me tonight. I didn’t reply straight away. Some time went by. And after I did his next text was kinda odd… but asking if he can see me.

    I said ok.

    But now nothing back from him.

    My instinct is very very strongly that the only reason he would not text me back right now is cus he has taken something…

    And that is really what I believe.

    So there we have it.

    I have got to accept it.

    And it F8cking HURTS. I hate to see people lost to addiction.

    I feel so so sad.

    But that is it!

    No more.

    There is nothing else to say.

  171.  #171Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    I feel exhusted I feel houndrd. My oarents arr “aftrt me when I go out. Thry cdkl mr. I need a vacation. I ferl cornered I dont wamt to ferl like this I dont eany to ferl drained grt

  172.  #172Lucy on January 21, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    My midnight manifestation of an old beau did not materialize. 🙁

  173.  #173Ella on January 21, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    I am going to have a nice Indian take away dinner.

    Tomorrow I am gonna exercise and do some work.

    This is what I want to do.

    I am feeling strangely ok.

    I feel like ‘yeah whatever now’.

    I am taking care of me.

  174.  #174Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Ehen I move away frim the house they intensify pursue and it fels very touring and anxiety building for me. It ferls awful. I want to get up frim under this control. I fel helpless sad scared guilty overwhelm ungh

  175.  #175Jacqueline on January 21, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Yall – anyone – what is the address to write Rori’s assistant or Rori? Welcome Cherie! she’s wondering and I lost it –

    Off for now – happy Friday to everyone!


  176.  #176Ella on January 21, 2011 at 2:38 pm


  177.  #177Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Sexy vd called I f el god I said somethinh like
    WIhatsup fel eeird last time I was expecting yo kick it an I never heard frim u.

    I also seemed.aboit beinh close yp security msn an I wany to fel gods but I fel sad missing him and ffear thst il never fel do close e a man

  178.  #178Ella on January 21, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    I feel like such a fool…

    Just another tragic example of what happens when u stop CD-ing!

    But I so don’t feel like I have the energy to CD right now!


  179.  #179Ella on January 21, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Oh that wa meant to be 🙁

  180.  #180Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:41 pm


  181.  #181Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Cding brings me energy. Anf I tel tge men whats troubling me anf I grt great insight ta. And I’m getting fried bananas cyz I asked.

  182.  #182Lucy on January 21, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Him: What are you doing tonight?

    Me: Whatever I want.

  183.  #183Daria on January 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Some things aste ok w me auctions aren’t. I its god as long as it fels god.

    I fel triggered that one eould have to be lije /i to stuffs I dont browse they date evil. Addictipn to stuff sucks

  184.  #184Lucy on January 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Ella, I don’t see it that way. If you had been majorly CDing, you might not have seen this problem so soon. You followed your heart to be exclusive for a season — and your heart saw what it was meant to see by doing so. You trusted your heart, and it moved to reveal and protect you, as all good hearts should do. <3

  185.  #185Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm


    I have a hard time understanding you… 🙁

  186.  #186Ella on January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Me too

  187.  #187Ella on January 21, 2011 at 3:03 pm


    Yes, but I am so tired of going up the wrong path…

    Feels like opening my heart and getting kicked in the teeth time and time again.

  188.  #188Daria on January 21, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Aww guys it feels good just to write somerimes.

    Android typing is the issue.

  189.  #189Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Daria is an Android! Heehee! And Daria’s got greasy hair! **Giggles!!**

  190.  #190Ella on January 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Why has Daria got greasy hair?

  191.  #191Ella on January 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Why did I choose and addict?

    And how did I not notice?


  192.  #192Lucy on January 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    26 texted me asking if I want to come over for some “amazing nsa sex.”

    He must hold some kind of record in the persistence department.

  193.  #193Lucy on January 21, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Ella, I think that you Did notice. I saw signs in your words before you even brought it up specifically.

    I think you chose an addict so you could heal this once and for all. You’re ready and it’s time. <3

  194.  #194tinque on January 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Ella – You chose an addict because it’s familiar. You said yourself you have been here before. The familiar feels good, so this is why you were attracted. You wanted to believe this time will be different, but now you see it’s not. And some of this was operating unconsciously.

    And this is OKAY. You get it. You are really, really getting the message this time, and this is awesome.


  195.  #195Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    I had my first date last night with the guy I hope will enter the CD rotation as Bachelor #2. I could tell from our emails that he was feeling intrigued and turned on by me.

    He was really attractive to me (emotionally and physically), and we had a great conversation. I focused on leaning back and using feeling messages. Then, when we’d been about an hour and we were still totally enjoying the conversation, I said it was really great, but that I had to get home to my daughter. We hugged TWICE! and the second time, I said, “We’ll see you soon.” and he said, “Talk to ya later.”

    I am hoping this man contacts me again, because I liked him. Thank God for CD-ing, because I’m also thinking about my ex today, who is in constant contact via text, but not making plans to see me.

    He lives 3 hours away. Last night, he said, “You need to move here.” I said, “When you’re stable.” I actually own a business and have a nice, tidy life where I live. He moved away for work, then the contract ended, and now is looking for work, both there and here.

    This is a small town, and he looked for work here for months before he left. He feels dismal and hopeless about being able to make a living here.

    He said, “But we need more.” And I answered, “More?” and he said good night. I think he’s thinking about marriage. He’s talked about it before.

    Today, he’s being all sweet and supportive via text over a situation I have ongoing. He says he wishes he was there with me. I say, “You know you’re invited to come back when you’re ready.”

    He answers, “You are a dear.” I’ve heard those words until I want to throttle him.

    “You are a dear” means I’m not coming. It means no. It means thanks for holding your life open to me so that I can stay home and be by myself and not see you. This is always his pattern: deep withdrawal into himself.

    So, I didn’t answer him back, and didn’t answer him a couple hours later when he texted, “Hope your day is going well.”

    Because I’m angry. I feel lonely. He feels lonely. But he wants to stay home. WTF!!

    Any advice?

  196.  #196Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm


    My last guy is a withdrawer, too. It’s how he deals with any emotional discomfort. It can feel more maddening than anything else I know that can happen in a relationship. But, my guy withdraws totally and violently, with no contact for anywhere from several days to several weeks. I would feel so unhappy and so out of control. I have talked with someone who is very familiar with this and she says that these men can have LTRs and marriages, but that this is why women leave them, so they have to be willing to step up and take responsibility for their tendency… because it’s their issue and to develop something that works for their partner. He needs his time and always will (sometimes it’s a part of their inner creative process and is a reasonable need) but he has to be willing to work with his woman and come up with and stick with agreements that allow her to flourish in and not be damaged in the relationship.

  197.  #197Nancy on January 21, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Also Lisi,

    I wonder if when he said “we need more”, if you had used a FM, like “I feel confused. It would feel good to better understand what that means.” I dunno, maybe he’d explain it.

  198.  #198Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Okay — got an email from Bachelor #2:

    Hey you…
    > It was nice to meet you last night. Maybe we can do it again sometime.
    > K

    I answered:


    I would like that. I enjoyed you.

    I’m available at the full moon, the 3rd Thursday of every fifth month, and on Doomsday.


    Okay. If you book ahead, I have flexibility on the week ends, and on Thursday evenings.



    OOOOOHHHHH I’m all tingly now. I likeeeeee.

  199.  #199Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Nancy —

    Yeah. I agree. His withdrawal is the reason I’m CD-ing. That and the job situation.

    I am crazy about that man, but there are some big issues that need to be resolved before I can commit to him.

    We’ve talked about his space thing. He knows it’s what ended his marriage, and he was totally heart broken that marriage ended. He grieved a couple of years over it.

    He says he knows he needs to work on it.

    And, you’re right — I know this will always be him. I will always have to be very committed to my time and dedication to OTHER things.

    Part of me likes that. I cherish my independence, and my ability to keep my social life, volunteer work, home school my daughter, own my own business, teach part time, and be active in my church.

    Wow! Now, that’s a list. But I also need connection, and, when I’m with him, I feel lonely and starved for connection.

    Keeping open. Allowing things to unfold as they should….

  200.  #200Daria on January 21, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Love daria

  201.  #201Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    @ 164 Lucy —

    Remember that the Law of Attraction is not magic.

    I’ve seen people get really “into” the law of attraction and think they can sit on the couch and eat bonbons and God’s gonna walk up and hand them a check.

    I did a couple of sermons on the Law of Attraction at my church, so I have spent some time on this subject.

    Really — the concept of a magnet is important with L of A. BE what you want, and what you want is magnetized to you.

    Be in abundance, and you experience abundance. Be in scarcity and you experience scarcity.

    This, I think is why CD-ing is a powerful thing. We can be experiencing abundance in dates, energy and attention from men. We can be experiencing abundance in sexual relationships if we so choose.

    All that puts us in the place to be experiencing the abundance of a man who wants to make a long term commitment to us.

    So, don’t be sad you didn’t get an old beau to call you yesterday. Open up your time frame a little, and start filling yourself with the gratitude that what you desire has already come into your life.

    “I’m so grateful for my wonderful, supportive husband. I love him so much, and am filled with joy that he is beside me, to support me.”

    Something like that….

  202.  #202Daria on January 21, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    It doest feel good to suddenky have someone I feel close to dissapear. I feel abandined and I dont want to feel that way

  203.  #203Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm



    I don’t want you to feel that way, either.

    I couldn’t understand enough of your entries today to know the back story.

    I’m finding that, with CD-ing, they really can become the prodigal CD (loved that title, SLV, thanks!). They return, eventually.

    And, when they do, you don’t have to be angry or sulky, cuz you’ve been busy. You can celebrate and enjoy their return.

    I’ve gotten in the habit of neither opening or closing the door. They show up. They disappear. They reappear. I go on CD-ing, and enjoying myself.

    Hope you get to feeling better.

  204.  #204LonePlum on January 21, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    The life cycle of a relationship 🙂



  205.  #205isoooloveart on January 21, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    I just wanted to chime in and thank all of you amazing ladies for sharing your stories and words of support for one another. After devouring Rori’s book yesterday, I’m going to take some time to go back through the exercises in order to get a handle on the overwhelming feelings of regret that I have for doing everything wrong with my current relationship of 6 months.

    I am currently waiting for him to call…we haven’t talked since Saturday and used to talk every day…at my initiation. We used to go out every Friday night…at my initiation. No wonder he was feeling smothered!

    I am holding him loosely and thankful that the wrestling I had been doing with him in order to extract my value from his is done. I got a mani/pedi today, experimented with new makeup and tweeked my online profile. I’m taking care of myself, going out with friends tonight, and doing fine…but I still would like to hear from him.

    The temptation to text a ‘breezy’ message has been nagging all day, but I just breathe through it and read some more messages here on Rori’s blog. Thanks to all of you for giving me support even when you didn’t know you were doing it.

    Here I go…plugging along…trying to OutGirl him. Wish me luck! 🙂


  206.  #206LonePlum on January 21, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    “Don’t expect instant gratification in a relationship… Say what you have to say, let it do its work…”


  207.  #207Simply Shannon on January 21, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    I manifested $100 today!! Literally a crisp one hundred dollar bill just like the picture I have on my vision board. I feel surprised/stunned and so thankful! Woot woot! 🙂

    “Think thoughts of perfection. Illness cannot exist in a body that has harmonious thoughts. Know there is only perfection, and as you observe perfection you must summon that to you. Imperfect thoughts are the cause of all humanity’s ills, including disease, poverty, and unhappiness. When we think negative thoughts we are cutting ourselves off from our rightful heritage. Declare and intend, “I think perfect thoughts. I see only perfection. I am perfection.” The Secret

  208.  #208Simply Shannon on January 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Lisi, Since it sounds like you have experience with The Secret (fascinated by your comment about doing sermons on it!!)… how do you reconcile The Secret’s “don’t focus on the negative” and Rori’s mantra to state what we don’t want? I’ve been wondering about that the past few days. If I’m stating what I don’t want, am I attracting that?

  209.  #209archerie on January 21, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Sirens ,

    Any of you have experience with dating widowers?
    Guy is emailing me , 7 years since his wife died, and he hasnt dated in that time he says ( Archerie is seeing a couple of faint red lights blinking in the mist…)

    He says he would love to meet me as this could be his year to meet a good woman.
    TRUE , it could be .
    My street wise GF ‘s advice comes back about you dont want to be the first one he dates !! (L Plate dating – stand clear..!)

    Anyway i will of course go ahead and meet him , he’s Aussie/American born in Ireland so the accent should be fun.

    Would love to hear how to Siren my way through this scenario if anyone has anything to contribute?

  210.  #210archerie on January 21, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    SS about the Secret , great manifesting!I wonder what would have happened to provide $100 000 ???

    The day i started reading the book in an airport waiting to check in , I manifested the exact seat i wanted , second row right , aisle..wow , that was very impressive.

    Recently I thought again about cheques coming to me in the mail, more money than I could imagine working for , and yes , thats exactly what happened
    ( 2 more yesterday , one from my sons grandparent towards expenses for school , another insurance payment). I also manifested the three months work break I had focused on for some months.

    I didnt know how i would get money (a lot) and a break from work. It turned out to be cancer that did it. but note , it was a curable cancer and I have really gotten over it well.

    I am now going to focus on THE RELATIONSHIP i want and some financial stuff , including MORE money , more cheques , more title deeds in my hands etc etc , new career options and PERFECT HEALTH.

    I know effort is involved, I had to take out the policies, have the screening Xray that detected the problem , do huge surgery etc… but those things were actually not as stressful as they could have been and just flowed naturally. I was never fearful for my life. I just saw how it was all working together for my overall good.

    And in the end it just feels somehow “normal” , like I was doing what needed to be done at this phase of my life.

    When things manifest for me , I get a feeling that I am in the flow somehow, all the steps just get easy , the right people appear (eg my surgeons) there is no real struggle around it.

    I do think it is turned on by a belief in your worthiness to receive, hence practicing receiving and being open is SO important, not just with men..

    I totally agree about practicing abundance of CD’s ..the more the merrier.

    I would love to hear what else other people have manifested.

  211.  #211archerie on January 21, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    Ella just a couple of thoughts about addictions.
    Before people make a quit attempt they are in a loop or cycle of readiness.

    They are either contemplating stopping , making an attempt, just tried unsuccessfully and in denial and dont want to stop , or back in the starting to think about quitting stage. Its a cycle if you can imagine it in a loop !

    He is somewhere in that cycle if he seriously wants to stop . If he doesnt than its pointless discussing this further because if he doesnt want to/think about/feel the need to stop he will not stop.

    If he seriously does, its important to know that the motivation , and the initiation of the quit attempt must come from inside him . Not from someone else telling him he should. Reasoning with him and discussing rehab are external attempts to get him to quit and it wont work.

    Your withdrawal may help him enter the “cycle of readiness” if he misses you a lot! he might initiate the need to get clean and make an attempt to stop drugs . This may be successful , or else he just loops around (back into the using/denial phase).

    Either way , you cant fix or heal him much as you wish you could.

  212.  #212Brenda on January 21, 2011 at 9:49 pm


    RE: #192 – I love you!

  213.  #213Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    @199 Simply Shannon –

    I don’t see the value of stating what you don’t want. The mind can only visualize what IS, and creates that based on the pictures you give it.

    That’s why you state goals in positive present tense, “I am happily married. I am financially secure, etc….”

    I attend a Unitarian Universalist Fellowship. I speak occasionally. I was asked to speak on forgiveness this fall & spoke about forgiving the man who assaulted me when I was 21. It was heavy, but good. Had thank you cards for weeks after. 🙂


  214.  #214Lisi on January 21, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    @188 Nancy-

    Thank you again for that. I just re-read it. If I choose him, we’ll definitely have to make and stick with some agreements….


  215.  #215Wonder Woman on January 22, 2011 at 2:07 am

    Good Morning Ladies

    Today I am feeling so great. I woke up and looked out of my window today and noticed that if I look at the tree right outside of my bedroom window the branches make the shape of a great big heart. The universe is sending me signs that I am loved.

    This is so great because I love my blossom tree. When it is in bloom it is gorgeous and I always felt kind of sad when the cold weather came it was bare but now I love it all the more. 🙂

  216.  #216archerie on January 22, 2011 at 2:08 am

    I always agreed with you SS about not stating what you dont want . I still totally agree with this if i am affirming or visualizing or writing, it must be a positive image if I am creating or manifesting something.

    However , when it comes to stating this to another person, in person , as a boundary , I felt so relieved to state what I DONT want . I get the same good feeling writing what I dont want as if I was speaking it to a CD.

    Somehow I cant imagine a man responding quite the same to
    ” I want a non sexual relationship till we are exclusive” ..which is a direct CHALLENGE to some guys..and leaves room for convincing behaviours.

    compare to
    “I dont want sex now with you ” which seems very direct to me and no ambiguity .

    Could this difference be about positive statements for manifesting and dont wants in interpersonal communication???

    What do you think?

  217.  #217Wonder Woman on January 22, 2011 at 2:30 am

    Archerie @ 201

    “I would love to hear what else other people have manifested.”

    I have been finding that since I have been believing that money is no longer a problem unexpected money has appeared in the bank in perfect time for important occasions and yesterday I found out that from March my money will increase significantly on a weekly basis (a pay increase) even though I have done nothing more to earn it.

    Like you I feel it is just a very natural thing. I believe I am worthy of receiving and that things will work out just as I want. Then I just keep going and trust it is going to happen.

    I also allow ample time for each manisfestation because I heard/read that there is a time delay in receiving incase you change you mind or something (maybe someone could confirm that)!!

    Your description to me sounds perfect. It all just seems to appear very normally.


  218.  #218Wonder Woman on January 22, 2011 at 2:45 am

    Simply Shannon @ 199

    “how do you reconcile The Secret’s “don’t focus on the negative” and Rori’s mantra to state what we don’t want?”

    I understand that positive thoughts are more powerful than negative thoughts. So I don’t worry about negative thoughts/feelings. I just really have a deep belief in what I do want and believe that it is only the deeply held positive things that will manifest for me.

    For me stating what I don’t want makes it clear in my mind what I do want and therefore that is what will manifest.

  219.  #219Ella on January 22, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Archerie re 202,


    Yes he does seem to be in that cycle.

    He has told me a few times HE wants to stop.

    I never bargain with him or try to persuade it… I know it is fruitless unless he wants to stop.

    But anyway he dropped contact last night in the middle of a text convo.

    My mind immediately went to that he had taken something and that is why the commuincation stopped. And this is wht my heart believes.

    Either way it doesn’t feel good and I am out now.

    When he makes contact (I suppose he will) I will tell him I am out but if he ever wants to get proper help (ie: a recovery programme) I will help him with that.

    Today I feel very empty and kinda numb.

    And I feel foolish cus I know it is me who has put me here. I feel angry at myself.

  220.  #220Wonder Woman on January 22, 2011 at 3:22 am

    Archerie @ 207

    I feel I should have been clearer with my last post.

    Yes I only ever focus on what I do want when affirming. That is very important.

    “Could this difference be about positive statements for manifesting and dont wants in interpersonal communication???”

    Yes that’s it for me.

  221.  #221Daria on January 22, 2011 at 3:35 am

    Fo me dont want alloes the man spce to create something beter than I mite imaginr so I can be surprised and awed

  222.  #222archerie on January 22, 2011 at 4:18 am

    That is a wise comment Daria.
    I like to think he is able to run with it and create that better place.

    So I say , “I dont want a man who takes drugs to be my man” is what i say when i tell HIM ..and what should i visualise to myself when i am MAN ifesting ?

    If i just imagined an ordinary guy who was straight , ie not using , it requires me to imagine using guy first , then not using , so its not possible to imagine the lack of drug affected man without knowing what straight is like first….ummm if you get what I mean.

    In some situations I dont think its possible to visualise what we WANT as in the Secret without some index of what we dont want.

    But I still want to build a “glory picture” of positive statements in my mind when i am imagining.

  223.  #223Wonder Woman on January 22, 2011 at 4:44 am

    Today in my world it is OFFICIALLY GODDESS DAY..!!

    On goddess day men worship me and I am loved and adored by all.

    This means I get to spoil myself rotten.

    I am going to go shopping and buy the most delicious foods and treats.

    After I am going to go home and run a bath and pamper myself.

    Then I am going to get in bed and read romance novels and watch my favourite films for the rest of the day.

    On Goddess day I can do what I want, when I want, how I want.

    ……and the best bit there are 365 Goddess days in a year (366 in a leap year).

    Yeahhhhhhhhhh… 🙂

  224.  #224Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:43 am

    Wonder Woman

    Lol! Yay for National Goddess Day!


  225.  #225Ella on January 22, 2011 at 6:29 am


    This is interesting!

    Just had a long phone coversation with Mr B.

    It started with me being kinda angry and stand off-ish, and then him saying he didn’t think it was going to work out (that is what I had been about to say to him anyway).

    I just said how I felt – angry, upset, stand offish. He asked why..

    I said we were in middle of text convo last night and u just stopped communicating. That felt bad. And everything else that has been going on.

    He said he ran out of credit. Don’t know if this is true or not but I am not going to concern myself with trying to figure out if he is being honest right now.

    There was some discrepency about the scale of his problem with me seeing it as bad and him seeing it as something he can take or leave.

    Lots of stuff was said but the upshot is he said he still wants a future with me and wants a chance to make me happy.

    I said he has always made me happy and that has never been an issue. It is the drug use that is the issue.

    He said he is stopping / has stopped and won’t do it again. He said it has been something he has known would need to stop and be dealt with sooner or later anyway, regardless of me, but that I give him the inspiration to really do it.

    He said it would be worse to lose me than to stop that.

    I asked him whether he had ever considered / would be open to getting some support to stop. He said he had looked into it with the doctor before but she had never got back to him.

    He said he is open to it.

    He asked if it is a dealbreaker and I said that I will not go any further with him until I feel safe. And that would make me feel a lot safer.

    He said he is going to look into it.

    He said he was suprised that I could just turn off my feelings the way I had in the past few days and that it had crushed him to think of losing me.

    I said I hadn’t turned off my feelings however that I had told him what I was not willing to accept in my life.

    He asked where we are now? I asked him what does he think?

    He said he wants us to be together.

    I said I am not willing to be in a relationship with him right now.

    He asked if he can see me soon face to face?

    I said ok.

    He said can he take me for dinner?

    I said having dinner from time to time will feel ok.

    So it ended that he will call me soon to make dinner plans.

    Part of me felt a lil disappointed that he didn’t make plans with me then and there, but the other part feels like he is respecting my wishes for taking it slow and also he has some stuff of his own to get staightened out.

    Anway I feel more relaxed and positive now.

    Not necessarily that this will definitely work out but that I have spoken to him, there is a chance that he may go for some help and that I am still open to him while getting to take care of myself.

    Yesterday I was in a bad place panicking about the after affects of us not being together… what other people would say, what he would tell them about why we are not together… and whether I could still go to the pub and see our mutual friends.

    Today I feel a lot calmer… just because if nothing else things are ok between me and him… more resolved even if we do not end up together.

    Plus I see that this is a HUGE opportunity for me.

    Now he is just a guy who I am CD-ing.

    Yes I am CD-ing again!

    I need to make a CD-ing plan… as I have taken down my profile from match and don’t really feel like paying or putting the energy in to sort that out right now…

    BUT – I got asked out through one of my customers. Apparently her son had seen me when I went to see her and commented on how lovely I looked. When he found out I was single he asked his mum to get my number the next time she sees me so that he can ask me out for a drink.

    I said no at the time bc I was with Mr B, however now I am free to say yes.

    I have no idea what he looks like. All I know is he is 38 and his family are nice.

    But it seems like a good place to start with CD-ing again!

    Also there is a really hot guy at the gym (an instructor) who was being very flirty with me the other day… I am going to make a point of looking hot and chatting / flirting with him whenever I see him at the gym.

    Plus I am going to a party in London on Thursday, so there will be plenty of guys there for me to CD.

    I have lost control of my eating and exercise regimes over the last few weeks and I have gained a few pounds.

    However I have decided just simply to do what I want to do anyway and then deal with it at the same time, rather than wait till I feel slim to do what I want.

    This is something I want to deal with again now (losing the last few pounds I want to lose).

    Today I am going to be gentle with myself.

    Git a bit of work to do and some brochures to go and deliver, which always feels therapeutic anyway.

    Then I have a lil marking work to do… will do this over a cup of tea.

    Then tonight I will stay at home by the fire.

    I may cook myself a lovely meal and I am going to have some chocolate and wine.

    I will rent a nice movie.

    I will also make social plans for the coming weeks.

    Tomorrow I will do some housework with my mum and I will go to the gym. I will plan for the week ahead and I will cook a healthy dinner.

    So this is me time now.

    This is beginning to feel better and his F8ck ups will not feel as bad when I am CD-ing again.

  226.  #226T-Girl on January 22, 2011 at 6:57 am


    I am no way giving you advice here, just want to give you a perspective from someone who has been dealing with an alcoholic mother for the last 20 years.

    An addict is selfish – they will tell you anything you want to hear, as long as they can have their cake and eat it too. I have begged my mom to stop drinking. She knows it has ruined our relationship and she barely knows her granddaughter because of it. You think that would be enough to want to stop, but to an addict it isn’t. Her loyalty lies with her alcohol. It is so hard for me to deal with the fact that she chooses alcohol over her own family. Yes, she has been to rehab, 3 times now, and she gets better for awhile but then she goes back to drinking.

    Now I am not saying that addictions can’t be kicked. Maybe your guy can kick it, but he doesn’t sound like he is in that place right now. Right now when I read your posts I think to myself that he is telling you want you want to hear. Someone else asked you if you went to Al-Anon, I second the suggestion. The main thing I learned there is that:

    1) You didn’t Cause the addition
    2) You cannot Control it
    3) You cannot Cure it

    Look out for you right now, and have fun CD’ing!

  227.  #227Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Thank you everyone about the “don’t want” comments!! I thought about it some more last night while finishing the book for the first time (I intend to read it many, many times over!).

    My thoughts are that we first must notice how we feel in that moment. So hmmm… this feels bad. And we want to flip that to good feelings.

    We process that whatever is happening right now and determine what it is about this moment that we don’t want so we can decide what we do want… which is to feel good.

    We do this by tossing it out into the universe (including him and God). We state what we don’t want, flip it in our minds (“I want to feel good.”) and ask him “what do you think?”

    Why? Because it feels good to receive. It feels good to feel excited and hopeful about the “what if” of life.

    I intend to feel good and think perfect thoughts and speak perfect words.

    I also intend to be with someone who asks me upfront what I want and then gives that to me and MORE, such that I feel happy and joyful always. And surprised that what I receive is even BETTER than what I thought I wanted. This kind of surprise and awe feels even better than getting what I want!

    Yeah! My life is even better than I imagined!! 🙂

  228.  #228Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Oh and I manifested a possible CD last night. It felt so good to be thought of and contacted out of the blue. I feel surprised and happy that this guy is interested in me. (I thought he had eyes for my girlfriend, and the night I met him I was with another CD. Ha!) Imagine my surprise that he’s asked me to go flying with him, and last night was checking to see if I was out at this local social event.

    He likes me! He’s going to ask me out. I believe it.

    I like ME! Haha!

  229.  #229Jennifer on January 22, 2011 at 8:53 am

    I haven’t written to Rori in a long time, and i will soon, to share how all of her programs have worked for me….I practiced all of the tools and revamped my brain and heart, so to speak, and 8 months after finding a great man, got engaged, and in 11 months total, got MARRIED! I am convinced it is because I let go and got a true sense of the gift and GODDESS SIREN that I truly was, and AM…but reading this made me slightly sad…i remember just how badly I once pined for men who were highly toxic for me…I wish I could have had this STOP technique then….now I have a whole new series of situations to grapple with….I am now officially in a REAL, committed, MARRIAGE, and although this is the REAL thing….it is work. I feel like I am in the thick of the realness, the day to dayness of a REAL love that for so long, (I married in my mid 30s) eluded me….fights and heated “Discussions” are inevitable ( although I know know that that is not necessarily true, they are NOT inevitable, it is all in the way I think about it and handle myself and my emotions, with love, respect, and dignity)….but yes, I AM human, and I fall flat on my face sometimes and engage in a stupid petty argument…..although I am doing my best to maintain my “Feminine Grace” (as Kara Oh says), realizing that I am HUMAN, and that the first year of marriage is about adjusting, and loving, and exploring with as much love and grace and being a Siren….
    Rori, would you recommend the “STOP” technique as a way to stop an issue or possible argument from happening? I really am quite emotional at times, sharing tons of feeling messages, and wanting to get feelings out, but I get the feeling that sometimes it may be too much “feeling” for him, and I suspect because I may be bombarding him with just too much. I think this would be a special tool to remind myself that I can STOP, get a hold on myself, my feelings and emotions, give him a one to two sentence feeling message, then go…just remove myself if I can, and go rift, in the next room if possible, to compose myself….what do you think?

  230.  #230Lisi on January 22, 2011 at 9:03 am

    @219 Shannon

    Yay! Celebrating for you!

    He found it intriguing that you were out with another guy, and it increased his attraction….


  231.  #231Daria on January 22, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Feelin good wakin up today at CD house

  232.  #232Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Re 206 WonderWoman I felt the warm light of my heart flicker just reading your comment. That is taking care of yourself and enjoying your life. You go girl.

  233.  #233Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Re 216 Ella says “He said he is stopping / has stopped and won’t do it again. He said it has been something he has known would need to stop and be dealt with sooner or later anyway, regardless of me, but that I give him the inspiration to really do it.”

    Wow Ella you can be an inspiration and he is admiting it. Is boundary setting inspirational? I don’t know but I am willing to experiment to find out.

  234.  #234Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Re 217 Isn’t addiction a disease that needs healing? Reading her loyality lies with her alcohol felt limiting and judgemental. I am wondering if it is a disease as I have read, how easy is it for people to kick the habit if the substance changes the chemicals in the brain or the body? I really wonder. I do know of people who have tried to kick smoking several times and keep going back.

  235.  #235Senior Lady Vibe on January 22, 2011 at 9:57 am

    @214: Wonder Woman says:
    “Today in my world it is OFFICIALLY GODDESS DAY…!!
    On goddess day men worship me and I am loved and adored by all…On Goddess day I can do what I want, when I want, how I want…”

    Happy Goddess Day to you! That’s how I do it every day. 😀


  236.  #236Jeannette on January 22, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Hey goddess’s….I need some input here. It seems like I base a lot of my decisions out of loneliness. If I am alone for awhile, without a significant other, I feel like a failure, I feel needy, I feel anxious, I feel like a failure…..all this bad stuff comes into my head…..I was like that as a teen too many years ago and I still have this fear of being alone. I have been alone a lot the last few years but it doesn’t feel very good. I need help!! Maybe I need to take a trip by myself or something…I need time to think about some things.

  237.  #237Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Re 220 Jennifer says ” I really am quite emotional at times, sharing tons of feeling messages, and wanting to get feelings out, but I get the feeling that sometimes it may be too much “feeling” for him, and I suspect because I may be bombarding him with just too much.”

    Though I am not Rori I believe that context, tone of voice and body language also needs to play into the conversation. The timing has to be right when he is open to hearing you, so I would ask “if now is a good time”.

    I have also been asked by my boss “is it too much or too overwhelming, do you want to talk later” as we moved along a discussion and I chose to continue the discussion later. Your partner is human also and can get “flooded” as John Gottman puts it so being considerate to his emotions and what he wants adjusting your conversation would help him deal with your emotions. You might wish to check up on John Gottman’s “Five Horsemen of the Apocalypse” and other books, they are available at the library.

    You might also want to build in the pause and breathing techniques mentioned in this month’s interview with relationship experts to allow your husband to absorb and process what you are saying. Rori teaches that in stopping after each sentence are asking what do you think? Another thing I learnt from this month’s interview was to ask myself “what would best serve in this moment”? How do I need to be to best serve the moment. What has arguments every created anyway? How does it serve harmonious relationships? Has it ever resolved anything? I also believe in taking 100% responsibility for everything I create in my life so I assume that every side of the argument is right. I am not right and the other is wrong, everyone is right so I invite the other person to join me in finding a third alternative. For a relationship to survive I believe the needs of the relationship has to be respected also. I have needs, the other person has needs and the relationship has needs. I practice stepping back and looking at where I am coming from to see if I am communicating that my needs are the most important ones and push to resolve them over everything else.

    Jennifer these are some suggestions or food for thought that I am presenting until you get feedback from Rori and others. Hope it helps.

  238.  #238Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Re 227 Jeannette it is at those times that things bubble up and we really become intimate with ourselves, we become aware of ourselves and we know ourselves. It is at these times that I talk to myself, love myself and give myself the space to grow. In my mind it is only as initimate as I am with myself that I can share that intimacy with another. Otherwise I would be creating a co-dependent relationship with someone who I would then demand to know me and how can he know me when I don’t know myself? He can only know the parts of me that I share, is my humble opinion. Does that make sense?

  239.  #239Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Yeah Jennifer! That feels fantastic to hear!

    I believe you’ve answered your own question. We keep using the tools because they ground us and keep us sane! The added benefit is that they do attract men and other people. Our feelings are our own. Not every feeling in our soup has to be shared with a particular man/our significant other. We have girlfriends and family and other men and ourselves who we circular date once we’re married. It doesn’t stop once we get the ring.

    I get this. Thank you God for Jennifer writing her story here!! Hooray!

  240.  #240Jeannette on January 22, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Femininewoman, it does make sense. I just wonder why I was always so anxious to be in a relationship. I did anything and everything to be in a relationship, even if I knew the guy wasn’t good for me. I wonder if it’s because my father died when I was 3 and I had a controlling step-father or something. I just wanted to get out of the house as fast as I could. I don’t want to be needy anymore. I want to be whole and healthy.

  241.  #241Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Re 231 Jeannette I believe you can be and as you explore here explore yourself and focus on yourself and your family of origin you will create clarity for yourself. We all go into relationships for the wrong reasons until we get clarity. It might be because of those reasons but you can heal yourself. Your fear is normal, start talking to yourself “everybody loves me, I am never alone” talk to little girl inside you “I will never leave you, I will never abandon you”. As you start doing those things, building your self esteem, recognizing that you are here for a reason you will start to heal.

  242.  #242Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 10:35 am


    RE: #213 – You said, “MAN ifesting”

    LOL! Love it!

  243.  #243LonePlum on January 22, 2011 at 10:37 am

    216: Ella

    Drug costs a lot of money and I suppose that it is the drug that keeps his mind so down that he can’t get a job and start planning to buy a house.
    I am assuming a lot here, but I was wondering what would have he done if he did not have a brother to give him the job?
    He paid a rent this month for the first time or so and then he bought his substance as usual.
    He might have no money left already, half month! (which would be why he has asked you to call a couple of times, and he could not send an extra text)
    He does not manage his finances or his phone credit. He lives day by day.
    Apparently that’s his pattern because he drags old debts.
    May be he did not plan a date on the spot because of that money limit.
    The money for addiction is always there, no matter what, then they ask around for help, like wen he asked you to phone him.
    He might be looking for money to take you on a date now.

    He said the doc did not get back to him
    He is blaming the doc, he does not own his health, well nothing new since he takes substances.
    But I mean one phones the doc over and over until one gets an answer. One does not expect that others take over one’s health.

    He is totally desempowered from his own life.

    People inherit the gene for addiction and can pass it onto their children….
    It is a life time illness.

    I am glad you sound a little bit relieved. You told your truth and you can be in peace.

    Well, enjoy your busy week end. Think of us when you smile at the gym loooool


  244.  #244Jeannette on January 22, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Femininewoman, I DO need to tell myself that I love me and will never abandon me. I think because my father died a violent death when I was little, I think of myself as being abandoned. You know what’s weird though? I have taken time out of relationships and then when I find someone who really seems nice to date, I find out a lot later that they are just as emotionally injured as I am. But my problem is, I don’t bail out like I should. I just stay in it until I’ve wasted a whole lot more time. The older I get the more I do it. I also notice I try too hard to be nice, always accommodating and stuff. People will say stuff like, you’d better take care of yourself and I hear them yet I don’t make a move because of feeling the pain of a breakup. Too emotional or something.

  245.  #245Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 10:51 am


    RE: #220 – Congratulations!! I take it you are a different Jennifer than Judo Jennifer…

  246.  #246LonePlum on January 22, 2011 at 11:29 am

    SS 199


    I think Rori also left a comment under another blog about the “don’t wan’t” and the law of attraction, but I can’t remember where it was.
    If I remember, I’ll post it


  247.  #247Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    RE 234 Loneplum you make a good point about managing money and what I have learnt is that such things are an indication of lack of boundaries. Without boundaries he won’t be able to commit.

  248.  #248Jennifer on January 22, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Hey Brenda, Simply Shannon and especially Feminine woman, (Oh, and I’ll def check out those books you suggested.. and yes, Brenda, I’m a different Jennifer, different from Juno Jennifer) thanks so much for the inspiring comments and suggestions.
    I feel so strongly about the statement that Simply Shannon made……. “it doesnt stop with the ring” that is SOOOOO true. I think that we all get so caught up in the beginning stages of dating and relating, etc, before the engagement and wedding, (but of COURSE I have been there and know and understand how hard it can be, and I thank Rori and this wonderful community for being there for me during that time. It was difficult, enlightening, groundbreaking, heartbreaking, liberating, and loving ALL at the same time…but when you meet that ONE man who mans up and wants to love and cherish you no matter what, and you do the tools, and build love and trust, and get past your toxic patterns, beliefs, feelings of lack, fears, and self imposed obstacles to love..(which I had in abundance) and get resources like Rori and her products and her community, then you realize you already have everything inside of your own heart, mind and soul to SOAR. That is what her tools gave and continue to give to me. It was VERY smooth sailing for 8 months….and then I began to notice in little ways how it is so very EASY sometimes and almost instinctive to want to go back to old patterns of beliefs and relating. (Much like the situation Rori found herself in after a few years into her marriage)… but where I am so proud of myself and why I feel like I am so grateful to her and her experiences, is that I could catch myself in these patterns a few weeks in and how I can correct them quickly and easily with the tools. (well, not so much easily, ha ha, but I practice and practice and PRACTICE and just do the best I can…for example, refusing to beat myself up when I snap at him for something lame, or I reward myself with self acknowledgement when I do something that a Siren would do, and when I get that wonderful response or outcome that automatically comes from being a Siren, whether that outcome is from him or just me, or both.. etc. ;)..)
    It is liberating and wonderful. I know that my journey is not over once I get the Man, the ring, or the Marriage. It is just the beginning, and I am strapped in for the wonderful, life long ride.
    Thanks to Rori and everyone here. We are all gifts to be treasured. The man in our life who is with us now…whether for a passing moment, a few text messages, one date, one week or a lifetime, is there to treasure us, whether he is conscious of that truth, or he is not. We are a road map to a place of peace and love for everyone around us. Sometimes they pass by, and are too immature, selfish, or toxic to read the map. Sometimes they are great men, just not able to read our map’s “language” so to speak. We recognize this with the tools, and allow the man who wants to treasure us to treasure us. THEN we make our choice, to continue to allow him to do so or not, depending on how we feel. By allowing him to treasure us, we bring out the best in our relationship, him, and most importantly, ourselves.
    I am realizing that in marriage, that doesn’t stop and will NEVER stop. I want,need and deserve to be treasured, married or single. I know my husband loves and treasures me, and I feel like with the tools in my arsenal from the get go, I will never lose sight of that. I can never go back to the way I was shabbily treated in past relationships,,and more importantly, I don’t ever have to, ( and not just because I am married) because I am a gift, a loving, Siren, albeit imperfect, wonderful woman that now knows how great love can be. Everyone here, no matter what, just needs to believe, in abundance, and that they will experience that too. The power to our happiness lies in that belief.
    I feel so happy and light right now. Feels good to share.

  249.  #249Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Jennifer, I love it! Thank you for sharing!

    Ella, I wondered if you could figure out what it is about the drugs that causes you to feel alarmed. For me, it was the alcohol itself that I hated. It was him being gone or coming home smashed unable to help me with the kids, unable to make love to me, unable to spend time with me and have fun! I felt afraid of him drinking and driving and getting hurt or killed or hurting someone else. I felt angry about the money he spent on alcohol instead of planning a adventures for us. I felt afraid that he drank because he hated being at home with me sober. I felt afraid that he didn’t love me anymore. That drinking was more fun and more important to him than me.

    When I look at it this way, he could have been the worst boozer in the world and NOT made me feel these things. Does that make sense?

    I’m uncovering stuff right along with you. Thank you for sharing this!

    I want to be with a man who I feel safe, happy, passionate, loving, wanted ALL the time.

  250.  #250Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    RE 235 Jeannette look in the mirror and tell yourself “I love you”. It was in doing that I realize I resented and disliked myself. I have now made it a practice and I love myself and think I am beautiful. I literally flinched when I did it the first time when I saw the resentment on my face.

    People are not perfect we are all emotionally injured. Your comments remind me that we are all afraid of abandonment, rejection and loneliness. Circular dating relieves the intense focus on any one person and gives us the space to know ourselves and learnt about relating to other people. Why bail? It is fine to say like Carrie in Sex and the City “I need to take a break” then go off and take care of yourself as recommended then come back. Space is very valuable for such things in relationship. I reserve the option to take up to two months break. During circular dating there is no waiting and no wasting time, you are spending time living. When I date myself I read things that build my emotional muscles.

    Noticing and naming how you are is getting intimate with yourself. That knowledge you can share with a partner later on so that they don’t bump into it accidentally. Knowing that also gives you the space to slow down relationships that are moving too fast so that you can check in on yourself to ensure you are headed in the right direction. Our weaknesses can serve us as our greatest strengths. Focus on the strength and manage the weakness, no need to highlight weaknesses.

    Feeling the pain of a breakup is taking care of yourself. There are no quick fixes. That is processing your feelings rather than remaining in denial and begging or pleading with the other person. Heart break help us to be stronger the next time around. Breakups create room for better relationships as long as we are clear on what worked and what did not work.

  251.  #251Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Jennifer that was beautifl. It is very unselfish of you to come back to share and encourage the rest of us here. Blessings to you on your journey. I have been inspired by your input and will save those words.

  252.  #252LonePlum on January 22, 2011 at 2:11 pm

  253.  #253Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Re 240 SS I am here crying after reading your post, it so triggered feelings buried deep in me.

    As a young child I saw my father come home drunk, getting locked out of the house and at times urinating all over the place. He was most emotionally unavailable to us and like a shadow around the family. My mother was mostly masculine energy, unhappy and angry, constantly accusing him of having other women. I have no recollection of him showing me love aside from one incident when he was drunk and I sat next to him. He put my head in his lap and stroked my hair. At times when I remember that I get angry because it felt like he was doing it out of love but absentmindedly drunk.

    I heard my mother say she was not loved by the family she was in. If she had to live her life over again there would be no man and no children. Now I know where some of my unconscious beliefs are coming from and why I created some of the things in my life. I give myself love and forgiveness. Thank you Ella for sharing this with us in this space and allowing me to process my feelings.

    I now remember one of my father’s friend trying to rape me when I was young. He was in a drunken stupor. I was young so I did not know what to do but remember friends around me laughing and joking about it though I did not know what was happening. I can’t even recall fully what actually happened. All I know is that I want to protect my daughter from such things. I also remember getting passionately angry over the case of the 9 year old girl who was raped and buried alive in Florida some years by a drug addict.

    I remember my mother taking care of the family while he was in the hospital after being poisoned in the bar. It takes true commitment from family members to see a loved one going through addiction. He finally got off many years ago but the scars I see are still here as my mother still goes around with both masculine and very negative energy that has affected us.

    It was very healing to write about this experience but I recognize that I have to still fully process the feelings around it.

  254.  #254Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Re 244 To date I am still not close with my father. He lives with me, we are not emotionally close but we talk closer than we did before. I have forgiven him for the sad experiences but have not been strong enough to talk to him about it. It feels too weird even thinking about it. I have once been able to tell him I love him and that I appreciate what he did for us. I accept that he is human, not perfect and made mistakes maybe because he didn’t know better at the time. I still miss his love deeply.

  255.  #255LonePlum on January 22, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Jennifer 239

    Wow! I wish you many many years of happiness.
    Thank you for sharing hope with us.


  256.  #256T-Girl on January 22, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I was just wondering – I really want to get the Modern Siren program but it just isn’t in the budget for me right now (even in monthly installments). Does anyone ever resell their copies? I have been checking E-Bay and Craigslist. I never see them on Craigslist and E-Bay ends up being the same price.

  257.  #257archerie on January 22, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Jennifer, congratulations!

    We havent met , But I would like to give my take on your excellent question to Rori ..(I know Rosa pretty well, and she adapted the above sequence from a mix of psychology, NLP, and imagination and it works for ME and many Sirens here by the look of it).

    “Rori, would you recommend the “STOP” technique as a way to stop an issue or possible argument from happening? I really am quite emotional at times, sharing tons of feeling messages, and wanting to get feelings out, but I get the feeling that sometimes it may be too much “feeling” for him, and I suspect because I may be bombarding him with just too much. I think this would be a special tool to remind myself that I can STOP, get a hold on myself, my feelings and emotions, give him a one to two sentence feeling message, then go…just remove myself if I can, and go rift, in the next room if possible, to compose myself….what do you think?”

    You are right , yes, excessive feeling messages one after another can drown a guy in a torrent of emotions! Rori actually says “STOP TALKING and put your hand over your mouth..yes really ” (that is in Reconnect)

    When I start stating some feelings , particularly angry ones, I am likely to get caught in a thought-feeling spiral that spirals UP in intensity and can look pretty scary
    I have to STOP myself eyes up right ,and then i say to Myself silently, enough!
    You have expressed your anger, if you keep saying it you are fuelling your inner fire ”

    eg TRIGGER –
    He leaves the toilet seat up.I have to put it down /clean etc..

    “I say I feel annoyed when I see the seat up”
    I THINK he always leaves it up!

    “I feel REALLY irritated when I have to keep putting it down and cleaning”..(inside I start to churn more, I THINK he doesnt seem to give a damn! )

    ” I feel horrible and angry and ignored ..(I THINK ..what about all the bathroom floor ! Not to mention his dirty socks , I am so sick of his untidy ways! )

    MORE AND MORE negative feelings could easily flow out of your loving mouth as we escalate our feelings with negative THOUGHTS.

    By now the feeling message torrent is really taking off. The poor guy hasnt got a clue what we are all worked up about!!!!!!!!

    We have to STOP as soon as we catch ourselves escalating -or fuelling our inner fire.. HAND OVER MOUTH..let him speak ..

    Later at a calm time and place a Rori speech about sharing tidying and cleaning may be appropriate using simple feeling messages.

    I do this all the time with my kids too.

    So YES YES YES , you may prevent many ugly scenes by using this technique!

  258.  #258Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Closure – We want CLOSURE. Somehow, sticking around until we KNOW EVERYTHING FOR SURE is
    exactly what KEEPS US THERE. Weird, isn’t it?

    Actually, it’s really a perfectly normal human thought process called the Zeigarnik Effect.

    According to Wikipedia, the Zeigarnik Effect states that “people remember uncompleted or interrupted tasks better than completed ones”.

    In other words, if we’re “left hanging” in suspense about something, we’re very likely to have a very unsettling feeling until whatever it is can be resolved.

    When a TV show ends with “to be continued”, we’re peeved…but we’re also way, way more likely to tune in to the next episode!


    It’s human nature to spill our guts when
    there’s no longer any reason to keep quiet.

  259.  #259life_is_too_short_to... on January 22, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    You Sirens and the discussions and posts here are fr**kin lifesavers, that’s what I’m saying!!
    and…Got a date tonite with a new one! yay!

  260.  #260LonePlum on January 22, 2011 at 4:13 pm

  261.  #261Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Loneplum re 234,

    What you say may or may not be accurate/true.

    Some of it probably is.

    I am going to CD and keep my options open.

    But I am not going to write him off eintirely.

    If HE writes himself off over time that is fine.

    One thing I will say in his defence is that I see him making positive changes in his life at this time.

    I am not sure the scale or power of his addiction. He says he has not bought anything since Xmas (was given some from a friend on the 2 times he had some). He says it is a problem but it is not as bad as I think.

    He may be telling me what I want to hear…

    The reason he did not follow up with doc is cus he thought he could deal with it himself.

    There are definitely issues around him not ‘owning’ his own stuff.

    I am just watching this space to see whether this is something that he can get over and also whether he can really man up with his life in general.

    But I am not waiting on it.

    At the moment it is looking a lot like he is not the man for me. I want a step up man who has his life together and who I can trust bc I see he has boundaries and is making something of his life.

    What I really want is a man who is like that and still fun!

    But I have not found any men like that yet.

    I am fond of Mr B and like I said I am not closing the door. However I can feel myself gradually moving away from him emotionally.

    It will be interesting to see what happens here and whether me using RR tools and staying open can have a positive affect on this situation.

    But even if not at least they will protect me.

  262.  #262Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    SS re 249,

    For me it is the image of when I have seen him on it.

    I have felt disgusted and turned off… he looks like a druggie waster when I have seen him like that. And that fills me with fear.

    I think there may be some vague connection to watching my stepdad’s health deteriate when he was terminally ill and I basically watched him waste away.

    Hearing about the past health problems Mr B has had with this drug make me feel shocked. Shocked to think that he would let himself get in that state and fearful of the power this substance must have over him bc he did.

    And again the connection to fear of watching someone I care about become ill and die.

    Also angry bc I want my man to be the one who is together and in charge… I don’t want to be in a position where I have to sort stuff out cus he is out of it.

    Afraid that he will not have the money to do stuff, and especially that if I was with him seriously whether he could pay the bills, look after children etc…

    Afraid that how can he love me if it turns out he loves this thing more?

    CD-ing helps, takes the power and intensity out of whatever happens. Cus its like even if it doesn’t work it really doesn’t matter as much!

    Cus I am not committed to him… I am less invested.

    He lost his priveleges.

    He has been demoted to just another CD.

  263.  #263Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    All about CD-ing.

    Well would you look at the timing…

    An old CD got back in touch.

    I have agreed to meet him next time I am in London (next week).

    I went on 1 date with him b4 Mr B.

    He is ok, little goofy with a terrible sense of humour but kind of sweet. Not offensive or disgusting by any means. Kinda pleasant to be around.

    I was a little bored when with him but for the sake of CD-ing I am willing to go on a few more dates.

    Plus am going to accept the date from customers son – oww blind date!!! Never had one of those b4!!!

    But is it leaning forward if I go to the house to say yes (via his mum who would then give him my number)? The alternative is to wait 2 weeks until I am delivering there again.

    Which seems kinda long when I am trying to get CD-ing underway again.

    And party to go to next Thurs.

    Feels a lil weird, like am I doing something wrong? But I know I am not as the best thing for everyone is for me to take care of myself.

    One thing though… when I was exclusive with Mr B I agreed not to date other men.

    Now we are not in a relationship and I have told him this.

    Do I need to tell him I am going to be dating other guys or is it just assumed now we are not in a relationship?

    I do not feel very comfortable at all about the thought of discussing this (other men) with him.

    But I don’t want to be dishonest. I feel guilty if I think I am being dishonest and I do not want to deceive anyone.

    I kinda feel like it is my business though.

    And as long as it is not under his nose!

    I need help with this one though.

    Sirens what do you think/feel about this?


  264.  #264Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Ella, he knows already. I wouldn’t say anything else about it. Seems like expecting a reaction, ya know?

    Femininewoman, I’m sending super big hugs to you and the little girl inside of you. I’m really sorry that happened. (((HUGS)))

  265.  #265Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:56 pm


    Thank you.

    That was my feeling too. But I wanted to check what others thought as I get triggered around being dishonest.

  266.  #266Ella on January 22, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Hmmm… Being honest does not mean saying everything including my private business…

  267.  #267Femininewoman on January 22, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Thanks SS. I find it amazing digging up those long lost memories.

  268.  #268Senior Lady Vibe on January 22, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Free Rori Teleclass

    985: Rori Raye says:
    Oh my – so sorry – It’s only me here, and if I take off a day – you stay in moderation…wasn’t able to answer you all – just overwhelming…I’ll try to talk here and there in and among the comments as much as I can – and just keep the posts going. Also – I noticed I’m getting so much personal mail and questions now, and, again…so sorry…I want to and I can’t answer all, so I’m eventually not going to be able to answer any…so…what I’ll do is try to read them but not reply…and instead do more teleclasses where I can answer questions live. Love, Rori

    OH – I just realized you’re not all on my personal client list…so –free teleclass coming up Monday evening 5:30 PST/7:30 CMT/8:30EST/middle of the night if you’re in England or Europe, and 9:30 am Tuesday morning if you’re in Australia!

    Call…1-218-862-7200 at the time that’s right for your time zone, then put in the conference code: 417864.

    There’ll be so many on this call – I’ll likely just talk – and perhaps try to take a question or two at the end. The idea is to kick off my 6-Week Teleclass “You Get Love” the following Monday, the 31st at the same times. To find out about the 6-Week class go to http://www.coachrori.com/teleclass. Don’t know if this is the only one this year….and only taking 10 women – so sign up if you’ve always wanted private coaching…this is way more affordable. Love, Rori

    Saturday, 22 January 2011 @ 5:03pm


  269.  #269Simply Shannon on January 22, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Ella, Yes, it feels good to be honest! If he asks you, then respond with the truth. Whatever might that be for you. 🙂

  270.  #270Jacqueline on January 22, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Hi! wow I got creeped out today – I saw my ex on facebook and he had a picture of the girl after me he married – and she makes my skin crawl. And it’s specific to her; the guy I’m with now’s ex doesn’t do that. She just looks so trashy? trampy? I don’t know….dirty, vulgar. It freaks me out to have this reaction and I wanted to vent some.

    And to say – obviously – he went happily on with his life – married her, adopted her two kids, seems to still be raising the three grandkids(?)….

    And I KNOW I am so grateful and relieved and glad I am not stuck in that picture….

    but it still makes me feel betrayed. Ha! He uses a cane and he took the pix of the girl coming out of the grocery store – exactly what I used to do, I actually even wondered if that’s how he’d met her when I was in their buying his groceries once when he went to Jack in the box and didn’t show back up for 20 minutes???? so then I got all weirded out that the pix was meant to be seen by me.

    Wow, what’s wrong with me today, huh?

    Live in lowkeyed finally went off to work for a week in another city- maybe it’s just being “home alone?”

    So, someone….help?!!!


  271.  #271Senior Lady Vibe on January 22, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    @270: Jacqueline

    Hi Jacqueline:

    Thanks for giving all those references to “staying in circulation” while dating, the programs and the books. I sent you a long thank you and post and it disappeared. I’ll post again and include those titles for any sirens who missed it on the other thread.

    I’m at home just about to put in a DVD “Valentine’s Day”…I think it’s a rom-com, I saw the title mentioned by Rori in on of her posts…

    Have a good night and sweet Sunday tomorrow…


  272.  #272Jacqueline on January 22, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Thank you, too, SLV…enjoy!

  273.  #273Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    Married Jennifer,

    RE: #239 – Wow, what a beautiful speech!! How encouraging! Thank you for sharing! You are a testament to Rori’s work.

  274.  #274Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    I mean #229

  275.  #275Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 9:00 pm


    RE: #236 – You said, “If I am alone for awhile, without a significant other, I feel like a failure, I feel needy, I feel anxious, I feel like a failure…..all this bad stuff comes into my head…..”

    I totally relate. This blog helps me a lot, just having someone to talk to when I’m alone. The “Fall to the Floor Tool” helps, too. It’s hard to face those awful feelings, but I am finding that is the key to being free of them.

  276.  #276Nancy on January 22, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    @ Jacqueline’s 270

    Oh, I feel your pain. I think it’s just such an ego blow… but is that all it is? I can only say how I feel, because I don’t yet understand this. I totally dread the day that I find out somehow that my ex gets married, or even has another girlfriend. If we’ve loved a man with any gusto and for whatever reason(s), we don’t end up with him forever, it’s just painful to see him with someone else. I feel rejected, first of all. I feel I wasn’t good enough. I wasn’t enough. I wasn’t his choice, his preference. What mistakes did I make? Am I being punished for them? Could that be me in the picture with him? If I had done it better? God, I would so rather not know… never see him again and not know. Just never have it in my face. I don’t want to know. I have no desire to be “friends” with him. I’d rather have him drift off into the stratosphere and be totally lost to me than have to deal with seeing him with someone besides me. I just can’t think of anything more painful.

  277.  #277Nancy on January 22, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    On a brighter note, I had a very nice, yet kind of odd first date with a man tonight. He is the only man, out of about 100 who responded to my CL ad who wrote, asked for my phone number in his 1st email, called within 24 hours and set a date in our first phone conversation. I felt confused, because he kept making noises about the skiing conditions not being good where he lives and needing to get out of town and have a road trip. During our second conversation he did say that he was looking forward to coming to see me.
    He showed up tonight, having driven 1.5 hours to get here, took me to dinner, paid and then bought my drink at the little place we went to after dinner. I told him that it felt so good to sit and relax and talk to a man who was so intelligent. He complimented me and found reasons to touch my hand (looking at my ring). Again, I thought I sensed disinterest when he said he thought he’d head home at 8 pm. But, as we walked to our cars, he put his arm around me and then kissed me. A man passing by on the street said “That was sweet.” It was so cute! My date said that he thought that was a good sign. As we parted, he said he definitely wanted to see me again and that he wanted me to come to his town. He said something about giving him a call. I stopped and got still, then told him that I like to feel feminine and that while I might not choose to call him, I was receptive to him calling me and that if he invited me to his town, chances were that I would come. He said wow, thank you for telling me that… good communicating. This felt so good! Then he kissed me again.
    My gut is confused. When I first sat down at our table and looked at him, watching him talk, I had the spontaneous thought, “yeah, I could marry this man.” I felt warm and comfortable. My gut also thinks that he is very busy in his own life and that he may not want to spend as much time with me as I want with my husband. He’s a hugely avid skier. I’d be happy to learn, but there’s something else I feel that says that he will be preoccupied with his activities. One thing happened that seemed to support this gut feeling about him… when we got up from the table, he put on his coat, not helping me with mine, grabbed his doggy bag and walked out of the room without me. Check was already paid. I felt weird… very weird. I got my coat on and walked through the restaurant alone, to find him waiting in another section of it, by the exit. I don’t think I have ever seen that before. It felt strange. The first thing that entered my head was that he has some form of Autism or Asperger’s. It was just so weird. Has anybody seen this before? Is it a sign that he’ll be unattentive?

  278.  #278Jacqueline on January 22, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Hey, Nancy – thanks! just checked in to see about your date…and yeah, that is weird him not waiting for you, I don’t know, it feels off at the least socially inept, at the worst not wanting to walk with you???….but I am so glad you went out.

    I totally really don’t want to be in the picture with the ex – it just weirds me out that I find the girl so creepy. Like maybe he was creepy inside too and I brought out his good – golf, loafers, preppy side but he wanted creepy girl really? I dunno…

    but it’s fine that it’s over, I only feel relieved that I still have choices in life and that I didn’t get locked into that horrible situation – his daughter’s hated me – he left their mother for me, and they made his and my life a living H*ll….told him they’d rather he be dead than with me….so….

    I’m good with all that, just a weird reaction to her – but lol, I totally think I’m far more cultured, beautiful and “all that….” hahaa…which I guess is better than feeling all inferior.

    And really, when he had to take custody of 3 small children good for him for finding them a substitute mother (his daughter went to jail, cps issues, drugs….) – and for adopting hers, too. My friend says no 60 year old wants to raise children again and he did what he had to do…but I dunno, I kind of think he did what he wanted to do as well.

    And I was NEVER gonna be that person – I thought individual happiness trumped obligation – so we were in totally different places about it.

    Oh, and well, you know – my current lowkeyed is pretty darn cute and doesn’t need a cane to walk…etc!…so I’m a lucky girl in that sense – even in the finding someone I actually wanted to allow into my space – I’m really picky and committment phobic!

    Your response above was pitch perfect and yeah – I think he acted like a man with something else on his mind – it was just weird, huh? So, next….

    and congratulations on even having the fleeting he might be the one thought –

    it’s all baby steps. You did great!!

    And I’ll be fine….I’m better already – listening to my friend telling me I’d lock myself upstairs to get away from them all or be a screaming lunatic brought me to my senses; always good to have someone remind you that you were miserable more than you were happy. heee…..

    Everyone take care, and keep romance alive!


  279.  #279Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Hi Nancy,

    I’m happy for you that you had a nice date. I would have felt weird, too, if a man had walked out of the room without me. I would feel like I was being treated second class. For me, it would be a red warning flag. I want a man who is attentive and sensitive to me, and who cares about me to take things at my pace.

  280.  #280Jacqueline on January 22, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    Hey Brenda…have sweet dreams too….


  281.  #281Brenda on January 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Hi Jacqueline!

  282.  #282Aradea on January 22, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    #191 Lisi

    “But I also need connection, and, when I’m with him, I feel lonely and starved for connection.”

    I think this tells you a lot. Love isn’t lonely. Sounds like you say the having of NOT HAVing him makes you less happy than just having your amazing life without wodering what’s up with him.

    For me, I feel a parallel to you on this, because I have in the past, notoriously loved only emotionally unavailable men. (Ahem, attracting from my own unavailability there…) And felt LONELIER than I do not having any man, dates, etc. He is a constant reminder of how I am unworthy of love, backing up my NV’s comments about how I hadn’t yet won his love by being nicer, better, perfect…. Then I had the pattern of chasing, leaning in, overfunctioning to the max, and hiding my feelings more…. then I’m MORE unavailable—even to me.

    Does this resonate with you?
    You sound like such a vibrant and strong, happy and fulfilled woman, and this man maybe offering just what he’s NOT offering: his real emotional availability for you. I hoped sharing how I saw this pattern thru ALL my past relationships with men, might be a way to help you see what that feels like so you can avoid the crushing loneliness and abandonment feelings I know I experienced with this. (And I was seeking to recreate childhood patterns that were some of the worst experiences of my life- I was creating a life of unhappiness for myself doing this!)

    and it’s why I’ve found Rori and committed to seeking a change in myself, since I was the constant in those unfulfilling relationships.

  283.  #283Daria on January 23, 2011 at 12:37 am

    Im feeling great. Ive drunk berr yipee. Wild women!

  284.  #284Aradea on January 23, 2011 at 12:38 am

    I feel nurtured
    and treasured

  285.  #285archerie on January 23, 2011 at 1:25 am

    Nancy Hi!

    Yes I had a man like that. He would get up and walk and not look back , restaurants , shopping centres , anywhere. At first I was shocked , than I put it down to his intense alpha male -ness, then I thought it was crowd discomfort , and cant remember all the other excuses i made for him over the years.

    In the end I figured it was just plain old blind self directed attention , all about his needs , his space , his gratification, he was locked into himSELF so much of the time he just didnt register that I might be wanting to be walked with, protected , made feel special ..in short he was a total rude BOOR !!!!!!

    Maybe this guy of yours is entirely different , but he certainly wasnt considering your needs there or even standard polite mannners 🙂

  286.  #286Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 2:12 am

    Nancy @ 277

    Yes, a man walking out by himself, or walking blindly on in a shopping mall, or at the beach . . and just not noticing what the people around him were doing . . that was my soon-to-be-Ex husband. Or walking into church or a social event, and just heading off by himself, or walking ahead at the airport, so I was running to catch up . . . sitting at dinner with friends, he just stared at the table, acting more like a shy guest than the host . . .been there, done that, worn the t-shirt, starred in the sequel . . and now divorcing him. He himself admitted privately that he was somewhat Aspergers, though without a diagnosis.

    It feels weird! I feels as if your date was giving a lot of mixed messages – a combination of attention to you, and a disconnect, a sort of dissociation. And I can’t help feeling that on a first date, it’s not a great sign . . . don’t know if it’s a red flag, but it’s something to keep an eye on if he asks for another date. I wonder – if you see him again, could you feeling-message it . .

    “I feel weird just now . . disconnected . . .I feel I’ve slipped of the radar . . I feel invisible . . . what you do think?”

  287.  #287Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 2:14 am

    And yes, my husband’s disconnected social behaviour was an early warning sign that he was in his own head and not going to be very attentive to me.

  288.  #288Tina on January 23, 2011 at 2:22 am

    I havnt really been practicing tools or nuttin , just want comes to me naturally and without effort. I danced a lovely waltz with Gerald, with my winter boots on. I never did do the ” nasty” with big C afterall, I recieved nice sensual massage from S , I realized that even just recieving a massage I feel gypped i dunno… eggshell man is lurking around somewhere, he recently wanted me to re add him to my messenger but this was way back in dec and i just found the request looking through my emails. Ive been dating off and on, when i can , mooseman called me last night – two years since our last date- he called and planned a date for this weekend but then cancelled at the last minute, then called me back again tonight mumbling about needing a partner for skidooing , i said , im sure you can find one then said good bye and hung up the phone, was that to harsh? whatever right?

  289.  #289Tina on January 23, 2011 at 2:30 am

    Hi Brenda 🙂

  290.  #290snowqueen on January 23, 2011 at 2:38 am

    @nancy 277

    What is his relationship history – how long has he been dating? I was struck in EMK’s ebook by the section on ‘Mulligans’ – basically giving a guy a chance and overlooking some faults in the first few dates. Rori gives us tools with which to communicate about things we dislike so maybe don’t overthink this one – address it if it happens again and if it seems to be a pattern then decide what you want. But it seems a little harsh to me to decide a whole date on one small action.

    There are plenty of reasons he might have done this – cultural, historical, social to do with his family, his previous relationships, his friends etc. To assume that he might be Aspergers is a bit of a leap!!!

  291.  #291Ella on January 23, 2011 at 3:09 am

    Hey Nancy,

    Just relaxn and enjoy the experience. What was it a first date?

    You do not need to decide if you want to maryy him yet, lol!

    Most importantly just keep expressing everything about how you feel, including when you feel akward.

    I may have caught up with him coing out the restuarant and said ‘ow that felt weird / alward!’ He asks what and you get to discuss it.

    Likely you will find out why he did it, but even if not you have shared how you felt aboput it and in effect shown him how you like to be treated.

    He sounds like he could be s step up man that would like the chance to improve if he is making any mistakes.

    There could be so many reasons why he left quickly, and maybe not to do with you.

    Also I belive Rori suggests not driving to them… they come to us. So I feel kinda unsure to hear you talking about accepting an invitation to his town.

    I have not read the other Siren replies yet so this may already have come up!

    I feel happy to hear that you had a nice date.


  292.  #292Ella on January 23, 2011 at 3:10 am

    PS – I do feel like leaving at 8pm is kinda early.

    What time did the date start?

  293.  #293Wonder Woman on January 23, 2011 at 4:27 am

    Good Morning Ladies

    Having experienced my very first official Goddess day yesterday I can confirm it is a wonderful experience and I am feeling very excited that every day is now extra special.

    On that note, I plan to treat myself very well from now on but I am thinking that as the best tasty treats appear to be calorie laden I am going to use the secret manifest myself a faster metabolism…..I feel intrigued to see if this will work….ha ha 😉

  294.  #294Wonder Woman on January 23, 2011 at 4:29 am

    Whoops….. use the secret to manifest myself a faster metabolism

  295.  #295Wonder Woman on January 23, 2011 at 4:49 am

    I watched the most amazing documentary last night. It was called Jouney to edge of the Universe. It is the most sensational documentary and shows in real terms just how vast the universe is. The graphics are truly amazing. It gives a glimpse of the sheer amounts of energy that are at work….I cannot even begin to try and describe it. Very rarely does a documentary leave me astounded. I think I have been truly humbled by this film. If any ladies are working with the power of attraction and universal energy this might be of interest because it shows how even the most insignificant movement in one galaxy millions of light years away can travel overtime and be seen/felt on our planet. If you are interested in the universe/planets that kind of thing I cannot recommend this programme highly enough. I watched the version narrated by Sean Pertwee and would highly recommend it.


  296.  #296Jeannette on January 23, 2011 at 5:47 am

    Femininewoman, thanks for all your input. I have struggled with not having my father around and his lack of love. He died in a serious car accident when I was 3. I have had a difficult time trusting and getting close to men. I understand how you feel about wanting more from your dad.

  297.  #297Dorthie on January 23, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Not that I am anywhere close to accepting the recent (4 mos) loss of my ‘mumbler’ but I like to use the phase ‘ I will always cherish the original misconception I had about_____. It does help me get closer to letting it go when I think about him.

  298.  #298Wonder Woman on January 23, 2011 at 9:37 am


    I cannot thank you enough for your words of encouragement.

    Today I was looking at dresses. I cannot believe how out of touch I have been with my girlyness. I had such a great time and I have fell in love with the shapes and colours and I am inspired to really work on improving my skin so I can wear a lovely floaty pull up dress.

    I am giving my self sufficient time to tone up a little so that March/April I will be able to wear the dress with lots of confidence. I feel really inspired and motivated to look pretty and feminine.

    Thank you for all your kind words of inspiration.

    You are a truly wonderful person.

  299.  #299Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Morning, Ladies! Thanks for all your input on my date last night.
    I woke up this morning remembering EMK’s wife’s “mulligan” idea and that that one odd action doesn’t necessarily mean a whole lot about this guy. I’ll watch to see if it’s a pattern if we keep dating. All of his other actions – making the first move, calling me, coming to me, paying, being sweet and a good conversationalist, etc., were just fine.
    I do feel anxious about how to handle him wanting me to come to him so soon. I’ll come up with some FMs to give if he asks that that be the next thing to happen. Everything I read – Rori, EMK, The List – supports my feeling that I want him to want to come to me the first few times, anyway. It’s a sign of strong interest and I’d feel much better if he wasn’t asking me to come to him at this point. I’m not big on the idea of training him, either. I always think of Greg Berndt (“He’s Just Not That Into You”) and how he wanted to make sure he never did anything to make his wife-to-be doubt him. He went overboard in her direction, erring on the side of doing too much rather than risk losing her, because his alarm had gone off.
    So, thanks again for all of your input and snowqueen, just want you to know that the Aspergers thing was just a thought that went through me. I’m not diagnosing him. It was just odd in the moment.

  300.  #300Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 9:55 am

    This guy may turn out to be just a man to have in my CD rotation and not a real prospect. I feel okay with that.

  301.  #301Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 10:06 am

    @ Wonder Woman’s 298

    I loved reading this! Over the last 2 years I have gotten more and more into my femininity and taken what have been, for me, some really bold moves with my wardrobe. On my last trip to Hawaii, I took along a dress that I bought with a lot of fear… fear that it was too young for me, that it was too frilly, brightly colored and flouncy. I wanted to tone up a LOT before wearing it, but didn’t really, lol. Well, I put it on, did my makeup, chose my shoes and when I walked out of the bedroom, my guy (Mr. Carrot) and his dad were both wowed and said so. I got compliments everywhere we went. Mr. Carrot told me 3 times that night how beautiful I looked.

    So, now, even though my body is far from perfect, if I like it, I put it on and go out and have fun in it. Try it! You’ll love the way you feel.

  302.  #302Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Wow… just received this in a e-mail from a man who has written several times, asking what I’m looking for. I don’t want to encourage an endless e-mail exchange, so wrote yesterday and said what I felt: that I don’t feel interested in continuing to e-mail, that I like to leave Cyberland asap, that I feel confused about what is being asked of me, etc.
    This is his reply:

    “I have no problem with leaving Cyberland (Nice!!), since it is basically weird. My entire issue is the lack of response to my enquiries. So I will make a proposal to you.
    Tell me what you are looking for and need, and I will give you my phone number and contact information. I would even go so far as to suggest that we could/should meet; this we could determine after talking (phone) for as long as you need.

    The one thing I have seen with CL, is that there are far too many strange ‘games’ being played. I am not at all suggesting you are not as presented, but I cannot tell. I practice my life the same way I counsel clients, not creating the conditions for a problem is much better than having me fix it later. Nancy, I am the most direct (not to say not with care for the person) person you will ever encounter. The heart wants what it wants, so tell me what your heart wants so I can step up.”

    I feel intrigued!

  303.  #303marina on January 23, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Yay Nancy that sounds wonderful 🙂

  304.  #304Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Hi Sirens

    TeaMan (not yet moved out from marital home, not yet started divorce proceedings, and with an online status of ‘separated’ and the claim that his daughter is not living with him when she is – in the marital home!) has come back to me. I had clearly stated boundaries about not getting involved with someone who was not yet free . . but now he has emailed with this:

    “Would you like to go out on Thursday next week? I understand your reservations about me but that doesn’t stop us getting to know each other a little better, does it? Perhaps this time we can end the evening in a happier mood.

    Oh, go on… how bad could it be? 😉 TeaMan

    PS: One thing I need to know… do you have any other serious suitors or are you seriously pursuing someone else? Old-fashioned words, I know, but you get the point.”

    At first I felt tempted . . . there was great chemistry between us, all very sexy (and I am starving . . ). But I have slept on it, and today, the chemistry bit has fallen away, and I feel outraged. I wouldn’t want to be the little girl whose daddy says online that she is not living with him, when she is. And I don’t want to be used to help him end his marriage – either to give him strength to leave, or so that his wife decides she will sue for divorce. But I really feel outraged about his concerns about needing to know if I have anyone else in the wings . . and the strong hint that he would expect early or immediate exclusivity with me!!!!! And this from a man who is still functionally married, lying about his status online, and not able to do exclusivity with his wife.

    GRRRR. Now I feel judgemental, nasty, and superior to him. (not good). I want to take the moral high ground. At least I did the amputation of ending my marriage by myself, without getting anyone else involved. I feel he is a wimp. A slightly boyish, humorous, engaging, not bad looking, lovely, wimp.

    What I want to send back is this. I sound sanctimonious in it I know. I need to tone it down a bit before I send, but here is what I want to send:

    “Dear TeaMan

    I really enjoyed meeting you both times, but I don’t feel I can take this any further. I felt surprised at your offer of deactivating your profile, so soon, in your progress report. But I can’t help noticing that you haven’t deactivated it. I feel nervous about saying but not doing.

    I feel appreciative of your honesty, face-to-face, about your situation. But I’m feeling increasingly weird about the ‘separated’ online status, and the ‘no children living at home’ bits.

    I don’t want to be involved in secrecy while you separate and begin the divorce process – I’m not made that way. I don’t want to deliver the final blow to a marriage, or to a young girl’s world. Right now, I need and want to protect myself.

    I performed that amputation by myself, without anaesthetic, and I’m looking for someone who can match me for courage.


    Far too judgemental-sounding, isn’t it?

    I’ve already taken out a line about “I wouldn’t want to be the little girl whose daddy says online that she doesn’t live with him, when she does.”

    Any reactions about improving/Sirenising it?

    I do want to send a reply, rather than not.

  305.  #305SummerBaby on January 23, 2011 at 11:13 am


    I don’t have any good advice as I am such a noob here, but I wanted to acknowledge that his offer sounds like he may understand your reservations but he’s going to stomp all over them anyway.

    I recently got involved with someone similar. Not the same situation, but someone who didn’t honor my boundaries. Because he wanted me and I wasn’t crystal clear in reinforcing and honoring my boundaries myself, he sought to woo and seduce me to jump over them.

    I applaud you for standing up for yours and hope someone gives you great advice on verbalizing it.

    My present situation has me wondering about cd-ing and where I currently am. for those of you who have all rori’s programs, which one would you recommend for someone as the most important and the foundation that started the turning point for you?

    I am a classic victim (history of molest, abuse, and rape) and looking to let go of that nasty story for all time.


  306.  #306SummerBaby on January 23, 2011 at 11:28 am

    I wonder how long you keep a cd in your “roster” or lineup for lack of a better term. If you discover that your cd is not exactly healthy for you, do you remove them? As in the person makes you feel good most of the time, but sometimes their dark side shows up and they don’t honor your boundaries or shut down when you use feeling messages, or worse yet, seem to trample your feelings or minimize them for their own agenda. Is that when you walk away?

    What if your cd tries to leave you to do all the communicating initiating? do you just forget about them or use feeling messages to see if they’ll “man up”?

  307.  #307Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Hi Summerbaby, and thanks for the affirmation here.

    I would say for you: Modern Siren, Toxic Men and Targeting Mr Right. Toxic Men is particularly good for letting go of nasty stories . . .

  308.  #308Wonder Woman on January 23, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Nancy @ 301

    Awwww………..Thank you.

    I feel inspired to be so much more feminine in the way I dress.

    The dress looks great but it is very much a summer dress and the weather here is still freezing so I plan to wear it out with accompanying tan when it gets a little warmer. 🙂

  309.  #309SummerBaby on January 23, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    thank you lorelei! Appreciate the input.

  310.  #310Femininewoman on January 23, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Re 298 WW you are most welcome, glad to help.

  311.  #311Femininewoman on January 23, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Re 304 Your words are direct if that is what you are looking for. I tend to be direct so I actually love what you wrote.

    Regarding him coming back to you I actually applaud him. He seems to be a strong man to me. Having said that I hasten to say that obviously the work you have done on yourself is paying off. If I was him I would not want to let you go either. He recognizes the gem you are and might want to hold on to you at all costs. If he is feeling strongly I imagine that everything else might take second place to wanting to be with you. I would appreciate him for the offer but stand by my boundaries. You have valid concerns and I am sure he understands.

  312.  #312Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    @ Summerbaby’s 306

    If it’s feeling bad, in the ways you describe, I drop them. Life is too short to fill it with men who make me feel bad. An occasional clueless move is okay with me.

  313.  #313Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Lorelei – you are reminding me of me, and I got a very cool answer from a guy friend today about the post where I say my ex’s wife is creepy -” no it’s not her that’s creepy, it’s HIM and it always has been.”

    This was easy to ignore since we didn’t live together and it was hearts and flowers when we were together…..and I find it’s way too easy to romanticize the past, too….

    Anyway, I kind of hate Mr. Tea guy – what can it hurt? ummmm YOU…

    But I think your reply was long and had many spots in it to allow him to argue in favor of changing your mind??? –

    how about:

    It feels really uncomfortable to have you not listen to what I want and to see how you are full of mixed messages and half truths. I’m glad you thought of me, but I don’t want that in a man. It’s hurtful to me, and probably to the people around you now. When things change – or you change, stay in touch.

    If you want him to?? Guys that ignore what you say are (although flattering) kind of red flags to me….

    What do you think??


  314.  #314Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Hi, everyone! Nancy – thanks for your response, did you see how it seemed different than just the new girlfriend aspect for me? I see today that I really need to just let it go!!! and if having that reaction helps….well, okay.

    No more creepiness!!!



    ps – so what are your thoughts on date guy today? Did he get in touch? I think how quick – or not – he does that will tell you a lot….

  315.  #315Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Summerbaby – I think the Rori way is not to initiate – and just in general, initiating all the time feels bad, takes away our power and “plays” us, huh?

    So….I’d let it go – yes keep him in rotation but make him play by the rules YOU want – like he contacts you…

    What do you think?


  316.  #316SummerBaby on January 23, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline,

    that’s kind of what I thought. Two guys just stopped talking. They act all interested when I talk to them, but to me it just seems like too much work. I did ALL the initiating with my ex and I gave up all my power to him. I am hoping that’s out of my system for good!

    Nancy, thank you for weighing in. Meanwhile I thought I blew it again with Mr. Gold by leaning forward. So I just said oh well, and let it go and he’s back to calling and texting and always asking how I’m feeling. Proving what you’ve all said that you can’t say the wrong thing to the right one.

    The thing that bothers me is that there is a bit of distance between us and I’m a bit antsy with a once a week thing. There’s about 45 minutes distance, so not too bad, but enough and we are both so busy. I guess I need to work on the feeling messages for what I want and desire in terms of frequency and contact. Plus I’m still adjusting to empty nest. Working on my music and other hobbies to channel the flood of emotion.


    thanks for listening all.

  317.  #317Femininewoman on January 23, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    RE316 Summerbaby what do you think about just mirroring what he is offering. Give back when he gives instead of asking for what you want. He might not yet be in a place to give that to you or might not be willing yet. My understanding when there is distance is to check into myself to see where I am disconnected with myself. This helps to change our vibe so he feels us differently and wants to come closer. I actually prefer working on me to chage my vibe to magnetize him towards me. When he comes I give back, and the after him showing some level of frequency and consistency of what he has to offer then FM what I want in return. In my humble opinion timing is important and maybe at this time he might not even be sure yet what he wants. He will know when he feels it and I imagine he will find some way to show that to you.

  318.  #318SummerBaby on January 23, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Femininewoman that sounds like excellent advice. This is all so new to me. I have said before that I am a classic overfunctioner, so it’s been with great effort that I lean back and work on throwing myself into other areas to channel my energy to change my vibe. So far it seems to be working as he is more consistent and takes initiative more than any guy I’ve ever dated. Plus he treats me like gold. I am somewhat uncomfortable with the attention.

    I think because I am so unused to being treated well. There doesn’t seem to be a dark side to this guy. He’s caring, giving, compassionate and has a fabulous sense of humor. Yet here I am waiting for the rug to be yanked from under me, because that has been my pattern. I recognize it as an unresourceful habit of mine and am working to observe my behavior and not judge it.

    If I can just relax and enjoy the ride, it will probably end up where I hope.

    Deep breaths! lol… thanks for the words of wisdom.

  319.  #319Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    -” no it’s not her that’s creepy, it’s HIM and it always has been.”

    Jacqueline, that was always my hunch as well. Glad you’re in a better situation now. <3

  320.  #320Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    I love it that you’re channeling your energy, SB – that’s a lot to deal with! and good for you

    ….and femwoman it is very good advice. I couldn’t do that tho – and not sure I’d want to. Isn’t the point of CDng to get the relationship we want? So….I’d want to know if he’s looking to get “involved,” eg 3x a week drive (and I’m not doing the driving so it’d be a “thing” for me….) or if he’s just a casual wants company kind of guy. Not to say he can’t have or show what he wants – but EMK’s guy knew with 3 dates – so I think esp. at our ages, guys know what timeslot lol, like tv, they are wanting to fill and what they will do to get it.

    Possible feeling message?:

    I feel alone now and that has a lot of possibilities; it’s scary and exciting both! I’m not sure I want this much alone time, tho. Do you think the drive will cause us to limit our times together? I hope not, I enjoy and feel comforted by seeing someone in person a few times a week.

    What do you all think? it’s kind of stilted, but you get the idea….



  321.  #321Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    Hey, Lucy! Thanks and I am much better in a lot of ways. Mr. lowkeyed is actually starting to grow on me – ha! of course he’s out of town this minute, but you know….we live together very well for the most part and that makes me feel happy! When I wasn’t yelling I hate you at him lately cuz he’d been laid off and I was paying the house bills (btw – it’s my house, and he was buying groceries so not all bad, just a violation of my personal rules….)

    He did the find a company, contact someone in it, get a job thing! He’s inspecting cargo – which he loves, and so now were in you owe me back bills and we’ll see how he handles it.

    lol…he doesn’t really, the sunroom he built is wow fabulous….but I want to know that he will be that committed and trustworthy, you know?

    Anyway, yeah, he’s like light years away in trustworthiness – and it was just like SB said, I kept expecting him to mess up…sometimes still do!

    How are you – are you really splitting up or was that me just not getting the whole story??



  322.  #322Femininewoman on January 23, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Re 318 I would suggest look at your selfesteem if you have had the rug yanked from under you before. You deserve love but you can only attract as much as you give to yourself. Start treating yourself well, believe that love comes to you with no effort on your part. Tell your self you are beautiful and that you love yourself, practice doing that in the mirror. This will help teach guys how to treat you when they come around you, they will feel your vibe.

  323.  #323Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    you know something I want to like “warn” people about – the creepy guy and I went to a therapist for counseling….and the therapist was all like, oh, you want to make everyone happy don’t you to him, and to me like, you need to give him a chance.

    Which was totally bonkers looking back.

    Thing is, it threw me and added about 3 more years to the relationship.

    I hope that doesn’t happen to others – “experts” are only as good as your gut – no make that your gut is better at telling you (your feelings….anyway!) what is really real.

    I wanted out so badly, but let him talk me into the therapy thing….thinking it would get me out. lol…


  324.  #324Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Femininewoman @ 311

    Hi again – and thanks for your comments.

    RE: “I would appreciate him for the offer but stand by my boundaries. You have valid concerns . . ”

    This is it . . I want to appreciate his interest, but I feel I have to stand my boundaries. My real concern, which i didn’t put in in my first go at an email is this.
    And I don’t feel it is just a left-over from my ending marriage. Maybe it is? But surely more that that.

    It is that in my marriage, I had redflags from husband, even before we were married. I could see that he was often harsh and judgemental to people; the night before the wedding, my American MiL took me to one side and said, “You do realise, don’t you, that he is very intolerant and critical.” And I said something like, Yes, but he is different with me. And in my heart, I had to hope he would never be like that with me. But of course he was.

    With TeaMan, I am seeing redflags – going online while still married, stating that he is ‘separated,’ looking for who knows what in the online dating pool. Ok, he ‘fessed up, but I already know he will lie (he called it a ‘little white lie’, but to me, lying about marital status is quite a big thing) about the status of his current relationship. And knowing that he will look elsewhere while still in an existing relationship.

    I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (very attracted, lots of fun and chemistry etc) BUT, I don’t want to find myself just having to hope and trust that he will be different with me. And there is no way of knowing whether it is a first (as he claims) or is part of a pattern..

    I don’t mean to sound defensive. But I am just inking it over again for myself . . .

    I haven’t answered him yet – going to sleep on it, and may revise email a bit before sending. I’m so tempted to go, but I know that if I do, it may be harder not easier to hold my boundary.

  325.  #325Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Jacqueline @ 313

    “Guys that ignore what you say are (although flattering) kind of red flags to me….”

    Exactly! And I am always turned off when I find that what was said in the online profile is not what we find he is face to face – in things like age, or marital status . . . . . .

    Interesting idea about whether to end with the possibility of him getting in touch when he is properly separated and getting divorced . . .if he ever gets properly separated and divorces . . . I was toying with the idea of ending with “so this is goodbye.” The online lies are red flags to me, especially about actual marital status . . and it damages the trust . . . why should I ever believe him, really?

  326.  #326Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    “And knowing that he will look elsewhere while still in an existing relationship.”

    But is that what he is actually doing? I mean, it doesn’t sound like he is actually IN an “existing relationship.”

  327.  #327Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    “are you really splitting up” (Jacqueline)

    You mean am I divorcing? Yes.

  328.  #328Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Wow, Lucy….I think/feel/believe that that will clear the space for you to find Mr. Fab/Sensitive/Fun/Exciting/Charming and Sexy!! Musician guy…the one that’s just for you.

    I hope it continues to go well and smooth and easy, etc. and that miracles happen!

  329.  #329Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Summer Babe @ 306

    RE: What about when “they don’t honor your boundaries or shut down when you use feeling messages, or worse yet, seem to trample your feelings or minimize them for their own agenda. Is that when you walk away?”

    Toxic Men programme is exactly what you need for these situations. Here’s a bit of a re-post of me recalling one of the most memorable bits for me from Toxic Men, which I typed onto the EMK thread a few days ago. It’s an idea that helps me to gradually learn whether to go on dating men in the rotation (admittedly my rotation is a bit thin, and it’s going to get thinner when I tell TeaMan “no more.”

    “In the programme, RR defines lots of different types of toxic man . . and there’s a kind of quiz that assesses his degree of toxicity – and is he fixable or not. And also our own ‘fit’ with the kind of toxicity we find ourselves dealing with. It’s really good.

    One the things I most remember from it though, is Rori’s male guest speakers. One, David Wygant, I think, said something like this. And it was this that in the end made me realise that not all men are fixable. Or worth continuing to date. Well, of course, everyone can change. But not everyone will change. Not everyone will see the need to change or desire to change = no change.

    He said something like this. That men, good men, like to have a job, and to know they are doing it well, and pleasing their woman. Men are a bit like dogs, in this respect (haha). And, to be fair, most men do not grow up with good examples and good training in how to respect women’s feelings, just as women don’t grow up with good examples and training in how to share their feelings in a non-blaming way.

    David reckons that good men can learn, and many can learn quite fast, especially when motivated by a woman they really like. And what they need to learn to do is to “catch” a woman’s Rori-like expression of her feelings, like catching or fetching a ball (dog example again). And they bring it back to us, or throw the ball back (mixed metaphors now). They respond – with something that let’s us know we are heard or taken seriously. They don’t even have to agree exactly, but they respect what they’ve heard or ‘caught.’

    So – David got on to how long it takes to train a man/dog to catch in this way. He said it would be a miracle if a man got it first time. Most dogs don’t get it first time. You have to give them some chances to learn, by repeating the exercise. This can be different feeling or boundary messages on different occasions, not necessarily just repeating the same phrase over and over.

    Someone asked him, so how many chances do you give a man to learn to catch. And he said, oh, 6 times. He was being very funny, and he was being very serious. Not about the actual number – i.e. it could be 5 or 9. But the point was, if the man is capable of learning to catch, of learning to relate, in a genuine way, then it won’t take all that long.

    And if after a fair number of goes, he doesn’t get it (no doubt with suitable rewards and treats for good responses), then it’s better to face the fact that he will go on hurting us, lying, injuring us and the relationship, either deliberately or accidentally. And get out.

    And Rori said, at about this point, “And you think I’M tough!”

    David Wygant, again as I remember, also said that men give away a great deal about their genuineness by the level and quality of eye contact – what is eye contact is like when you’ve been having these conversations . . .

    If you google “Toxic Men” it will get you to David’s site (perhaps) and to others, which give a lot of advice about red flags and toxic patterns of behaviour.

  330.  #330Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Lorelei – that will depend, probably, on you – hmmm? If you can no longer trust him you can’t – but if he can prove to you he can be trusted….

    it’s still a dang big hurdle to have to clear along with all the regular relationship stuff.

    I wouldn’t meet back up with him for awhile tho – just to see if he stays consistent without seeing you….otherwise, it’s just easy words to me…

    but I want you to do whatever makes you feel good, always!!

    Night for now everyone…


  331.  #331Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Lucy @ 326

    RE: “And knowing that he will look elsewhere while still in an existing relationship.”
    But is that what he is actually doing? I mean, it doesn’t sound like he is actually IN an “existing relationship.”

    Um, well, he is married, and living with his wife and child. He says it is over, and that they lived separately for year (separate bedrooms etc). He says she knows it is over .. . whatever that means. And that he has been waiting for some financial things to come straight before going for a divorce. And his online profile says “separated” and no children living with him. So he is formally married and in joint accomodation, sharing childcare. I have no way of knowing what his wife thinks, knows or feels about the viability of their relationship . .

    But to me, this is still having an existing relationship with his wife . . he emailed to say he had contacted a solicitor and real estate agents the day after our date. He also said that he had deactivated his online profile. The only thing I can tell is that he has not deactivated the online profile . . it’s still live and he’s on it every day. Actually, that wouldn’t have been a problem if he hadn’t said that he HAD deactivated it . .

    I feel uneasy about whether I can really trust him or what he says.

  332.  #332Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Well, the profile thing is a definite issue… Unless it’s pof — pof gets really messed up and ppl’s profiles are accessible when they’re not supposed to be and sometimes you can’t even log out properly… lots of glitches.

    But he will Always have “a relationship” with his wife/ex-wife because they have children….

    That doesn’t mean it’s actually a “married” relationship.

    If it were me, I’d just tell him I feel uncomfortable not knowing for sure if the wife is cool with his interpretation of their relationship and that “It would feel good to hear it from her. What do you think?”

    Or just wait.

  333.  #333Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    I guess my point is, even if you feel uncomfortable with how things stand right now, it’s not necessarily a poor reflection on him.

  334.  #334Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Jacqueline @ 330

    Where I’m at, I have a doubt in my mind about whether he is trustworthy, whether he is telling the truth. I felt he WAS telling the truth about the state of his marriage, when he was actually telling me, but the lies in his status . . I would feel stupid if ignored these.

    I’m not sure what he could do to prove to me that he could be trusted. And I don’t really want to start a relationship / well cd-ing with the troubling doubt that he has already shown that he lies. I don’t want the hassled of watching him for that. The trust feels injured too soon . . .

  335.  #335Femininewoman on January 23, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    RE 334 A man who lies will definitely cheat. I think we all know that.

  336.  #336Jacqueline on January 23, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Yep, Lorilei – my point exactly. There’s so much other stuff and to start by being “on guard….”

    There’d have to be something compelling to do so!

    Talk to you all soon….

    Gonna netflix the Girl Who Played with Fire…

    ahhhhhh home alone!!

  337.  #337Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Lucy @ 332 & 333

    Thanks for considering this from all angles . . . it’s not POF – and yes, he will always have some sort of relationship with his wife . . . it ‘s that it is, to all intents and purposes “married” at the moment. The emotional connection may have gone for him, he may fully intend to end the marriage. But feel worried, very worried, that his attraction to me, if I let it develop, with be part of the end-the-marriage process. Either it will give him the push he needs, or his wife will call it an affair and decide to divorce him (he actually said he wishes she would divorce him!).

    Am I being too high-minded, in not wanting to be part of this?

    I’m not terribly proud of this, but I googled his wife (he told me her name) and on her blog and FB page she chats away about how he gave her an Amazon Kindle for Christmas . . so not on too bad terms.!

  338.  #338Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    “A man who lies will definitely cheat. I think we all know that.”

    Oooh, no, absolutely untrue! I stake my life on it!

  339.  #339Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    335 – FW – yes, and it would feel terrible to be starting to get to know someone with that threat hanging over the whole thing.

    I need to sort out my email to him, but I have to protect my heart. I’m still bleeding somewhat from the amputation of ending my marriage . . . despite all the Siren tools . . I’m vulnerable to the attentions of someone like him, and I want to protect myself while I heal. It would be like playing with fire. Running with scissors. I don’t want that for myself (yes I do, says a little voice, a desperate little voice in side me). But my higher self knows that it could be so bad for me.

  340.  #340Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Hmm. You don’t have to be on “bad terms” in order for the marriage to be over. In the ten years we have been separated, my ex gave me Christmas presents ranging from a leather coat to restaurant gift cards to massage chairs. And we haven’t lived together since 2001.

  341.  #341Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:26 pm


    “A man who lies will definitely cheat. I think we all know that.”

    Oooh, no, absolutely untrue! I stake my life on it!”

    How do you mean?!

  342.  #342Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    “I’m still bleeding somewhat from the amputation of ending my marriage” — I think that’s the main issue here, to be honest. You are still too vulnerable.

  343.  #343Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I mean there are different kinds of lies . . but a man who lies about his marital status and claims his daughter doesn’t live with him when she does, might be more likely to cheat than a man who lies about his weight, or his level of fitness, or his ability to speak Chinese?

  344.  #344Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I mean it is completely untrue: “A man who lies will definitely cheat.”

  345.  #345Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    I don’t think it’s black and white like that, Lorelei. You don’t know every detail of the situation. You don’t know why he said the things he did — and what he Means by the things he says.

  346.  #346Lorelei on January 23, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Thanks for all – it’s half-past midnight here, and I am falling asleep!

  347.  #347Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    The point is, it’s good to follow your feelings. But that doesn’t have to involve accusing him of things that may or may not be true.

    If you’re uncomfortable, you’re uncomfortable. It’s about how You feel. Not about him.

  348.  #348Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Goodnight, Lorelei. You’ll sort it out. <3

  349.  #349Senior Lady Vibe on January 23, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Some input from the “EMK” thread, sirens list their other favorite guides to “staying in circulation” while dating.
    Thanks, Jacqueline and Nancy!

    [One question, Nancy: not shaving what? anything?]
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Jacqueline says:
    “SLV – here’s one – but it’s not the book from way back…can’t find it but google dating advice date 3 men and you pull up tons of stuff…

    “The Program of Three”
    On this dating program…you date three men at the same time without having sex with any of them. By not seeing any one man too often, you find the men who are really into you and who will stay the course.

    Plus, you break out of your prison of deadly dating patterns and maneuver more skillfully in the dating world. By following this program, you build your self-esteem and find men that are much more

    “Although the idea of finding, much less juggling, three guys may sound challenging — if not downright impossible! — let me reassure you: it
    won’t be once you begin using all the tools you’ll learn in my new book, “Love in 90 Days.”


    Boomer’s Guide to Dating (Again), Laurie A. Helgoe

    This is one of the most realistic dating books on the market today.

    Helgoe discusses dating fears, finding dates, being positive, sex, and what can backfire. It’s an easy, entertaining read.

    Date like a Man: What Men Know about Dating and Are Afraid You’ll Find Out by Myreah Moore, Jodie Gould

    This book has the voice of a woman-to-woman chat. The authors talk about having “a pair and a spare” — always dating 3 men at once.

    Generally, I found the tone fun and the advice sound.

    Nancy says:

    “SLV, Another good book that talks about a dating rotation:
    “Stop Getting Dumped”.
    It’s quite Rori-esque and a funny, quick read. The two women authors recommend a 3 man dating rotation. One says she only dated men who
    brought her gifts. It’s also EMK’ish, in that they say never to utter the M word (EMK says this emasculates him). This has been my biggest mistake.
    They say don’t sleep with him for at least a month and recommend not shaving as a chastity belt, lol.
    It’s a fun little book.”


  350.  #350Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    SLV, I don’t shave my legs if I want to make sure I keep my pants/tights on. 😀

  351.  #351Lucy on January 23, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    But then I have gotten into this convo a couple times:

    me: my legs aren’t shaved
    him: i don’t care
    me: I do
    him: (further activity that results in me not caring either)


  352.  #352Senior Lady Vibe on January 23, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    @350: Lucy says:
    “SLV, I don’t shave my legs if I want to make sure I keep my pants/tights on…”

    I think I mentioned before I lost my body hair, legs now smooth as baby’s butt, arms too — used to have peach fuzz on arms, no more… teehee 😀

    Still have a few slightly shave worthy spots…


  353.  #353Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Hey, SLV! Thanks for putting that together for us. Yeah, Lucy’s got it: You don’t shave as a deterrent to you being willing to take your pants off. Lucy, sounds like you may need to not shave anything in order for it to work. LOL

  354.  #354Nancy on January 23, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    SLV that sounds very convenient. I hate shaving! 🙂

  355.  #355Senior Lady Vibe on January 23, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    @353: Nancy says:
    “Hey, SLV! Thanks for putting that together for us. Yeah, Lucy’s got it: You don’t shave as a deterrent to you being willing to take your pants off. Lucy, sounds like you may need to not shave anything in order for it to work. LOL”

    Well, now I’m already smoothhhhhh, so does that mean no deterrent? unless failure to “go Brazilian” is a deterrent… is it?


  356.  #356T-Girl on January 23, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Have you guys ever felt so lonely that you are willing to reach out to just any man – even a “toxic” one? That is what I just did right now and I feel so low…

    I just sent a text to a man who I had a “just sex” relationship with. Well, the “relationship” ended when he just stopped answering my texts…the last message I got from him was that he wished I was lying next to him…then he went silent. That was over 2 weeks ago. I know this man wasn’t for me, but I did enjoy being with him. Maybe a bit too much as I could feel myself developing feelings.

    Yes, it bothers me that I didn’t have the “closure” because I don’t know what happened. I can only assume that he has someone else and it is ok by me. But for some reason I feel real lonely right now, hence the reason for me reaching out with the text (which of course he didn’t answer).

    Aggghhhh….what is wrong with me! Why do I feel like I need a man to make me feel whole?

  357.  #357Senior Lady Vibe on January 23, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    @356: T-Girl says:
    “…Aggghhhh….what is wrong with me! Why do I feel like I need a man to make me feel whole?…”

    What’s wrong with you? Absolutely nothing! You’re a luscious, sexy woman…and don’t you forget it!

    Those “non-closure” things can be beasts, mystery beasts… Sometimes the guys show up weeks or months later. Or never,,,who can know?

    To put myself in a better place, I might go online and check out guys and maybe send a little message to a couple commenting on profiles I like. I think nothing much to lose doing that, and there are so many guys, my attitude usually changes if I get in my head that there are a whole lot of guys out there…

    Disclosure: This is just what I would do and not the opinion of the sponsor, your mileage may vary.


  358.  #358T-Girl on January 23, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Yes, this “closure” thing sucks! I am actually dealing with that issue with 2 different men! I hate it!!! Things are going so well, and then nothing…maybe I need to get that e-book “Why Did He Disappear”. Seems to be my life lately…

  359.  #359LonePlum on January 23, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Lorelei 304

    “I feel confused by the last question. I do not pursue gentlemen.
    As your typical old fashioned lady, I allow gentlemen to pursue me.
    My suitors are men available for a committed relationship leading to marriage.
    I do not accept married suitors and suitors who live with a woman.
    I feel unheard. You might remember I have already told you this old fashioned preference of mine.
    I feel pressured to meet within circumstances not lined up with my old fashioned values; I don’t like to feel pressured. It turns me off.
    Discrepancy between a man’s circumstances and his profile details also turns me off.

    If your circumstances should ever add up with your actual profile details, try to send me a note.
    I wish you the best luck.”


  360.  #360G-Ro on January 23, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Hi ladies,
    After 4 agonising months of wether i could salvage this, came the big finale “sorry G, im not talking about relationship here, it’s clear it didn’t work out between us…..”. Those words have pierced me like a dagger, the worse thing is that i have killed my last 2 relationships with overfunctioning! He ended it, i got the blame. I tried my hardest, he didn’t do anything, yeah, it’s crystal clear it work out as he never lifted a finger, im left here to pick up the pieces of my broken heart and start all over. I deleted him from everywhere, i didn’t answer his last message, i no longer have the energy to go on. I know in time, i will be ok, i will be stronger and never to be taken for a ride again…..
    Man, i wish i didn’t feel so stupid right now….

  361.  #361Brenda on January 23, 2011 at 9:40 pm


    RE: #320 – Nice feeling message! 🙂

  362.  #362Tina on January 24, 2011 at 12:02 am

    I yelled at my mom over the phone today, about how she didnt try hard enough , I went off on her TOTALLY I dont feel bad about it, she told Ef YOU and hung up the phone. I was making something sweet to eat and started laughing at all the things I blame her for. yeah mom I finally told you how angry I feel inside all this
    rage grrrrrrr anyway, family drama blah! I feel inside she wants to and enjoys seeing / watching me fall on my face, she is a sick woman! I feeel kinda liberated in a wierd way.

  363.  #363Lorelei on January 24, 2011 at 2:20 am

    Hi everyone,

    Well, I’ve emailed TeaMan saying this:

    “I really did enjoy your company and the chemistry on both occasions, and felt disappointed to learn of your circumstances. I appreciate the progress report, but I still feel that I don’t want to begin anything in circumstances that would feel, or appear to others involved, like an affair.

    I am still feeling vulnerable after the amputation of my own married status in the summer. I need to protect myself at the moment from getting into something where the other person is not yet free to move on. That would look like living separately and having submitted the divorce petition, with an end date in view.

    When you have done the main amputations and arrive at this stage, I would enjoy hearing from you again.”

    So, that’s done. Will he be able to hear and respect this? Time will tell. It will be very telling!

  364.  #364Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Re 360 G-Ro he say “I am sorry” you say I tried my hardest. I might be wrong but I am wondering if there is anything you are saying or doing that might come across as you trying to convince these guys to love you or that you deserve to be loved by them? My understanding is that is a big turn off. One thing I have kept in my mind is that “I am the prize” so I am now willing to say “any man who gets me will be lucky” and “I know we can build a great relationship/marriage”. I feel that deeply because of all that I am learning here so for me I am now more open about leaving a relationship because I can say that with confidence knowing the next man will be better. Hope that helps put another perspective on your situation.

  365.  #365Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Re 363 Lorelei I feel that was you speaking in that and that he will be able to hear and respect you. However, that does not mean he will not continue to try as this might feel to him also as a challenge to his masculinity. I had a guy tell me recently that guys are okay continuing to try until they “wear you down”. Haven’t you ever felt that guys have no shame because of the way some overlook outright turn downs, sometimes even rude ones? I know I have experienced that. Some guys handle it with humor to the point that I have to break down laughing. I have told others outright that there is no way in hell that I could be with them. Do they stop trying, NO HELL NO. I couldn’t understand why before but now I feel it is because of the challenge. They have to prove to themselves that they can do. Then when we give in they walk away.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 7:53 am

    PS LORELEI Remeber Meemee’s case, I feel this was somewhat of an example here of what I refer to in 365. I am open to being wrong though.

  367.  #367Brenda on January 24, 2011 at 10:04 am


    Re: #365 – LOL! Wow, you must be a total knockout, woman! I never had a man pursue me like that…

    …but then again, maybe it’s cuz I’m not enuff of a tease!

  368.  #368Lorelei on January 24, 2011 at 10:19 am

    365/366 – Hi Femininewoman

    I’ve been wondering if he might keep coming back at me . . . if he does, at least he doesn’t know where I live! If he does keep coming back at me, I’ll go with “I feel unheard here . . I don’t want to be in touch with someone who doesn’t get me . . . I don’t want to stay in touch.”

    And if that doesn’t work, I would stop responding to emails/texts and any phone contact. At least I haven’t been involved for 3 years, like Meemee was with X. It’s only been 2 dates and some emails. It won’t be so hard to ignore/block him.

    I can’t remember anyone ever persuing me like THAT – well, not for a long time . . or am I imagining it? I must have had it happen a bit, sometimes, because I have memories of how annoying and intrusive, and what a turn-off it becomes when man cannot hear or respect what the woman is saying (however flattering the attention).

  369.  #369Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 10:50 am

    RE Brenda I guess I should have included that one was actually married so he had nothing to lose anyway if I did not encourage him. You see if they flirt with me I will flirt with them because I know that is all it is particularly if he is married. I practice with everyone now but all my life I have had married guys pursue me too. I wonder if it is because of my feisty nature? I thought I was hot when I was younger so I would just let rip anything that came to my mouth and mind. Plus you know guys love a challenge and I guess it was a challenge to them to get a girl who reject them.

  370.  #370Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Re 368 Lorelei I am sure if you really look back you will find instances especially younger days. The culture I come from though the guys didn’t give a lick, to the point of being rude at times. My mother and aunts have better stories than I do.

  371.  #371Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Re 368 Lorelei if he found you really attractive he will come back. I guy I was supposed to marry over 20 years ago messed up and was the reason I packed up and migrated. He married someone else but it didn’t work out. He told me after that he told her she was wicked because she took “someone else’s man and did not want him”. He pursued me after again, around 6 years ago, it was long distance. We got engaged because I was wanted to get married and kept asking. His withdrawal patterns increased and because of the long distance I decided it was not worth it for me anymore. After at least 6-9 months of no communication he came back crying and begging, but I told him I had moved on with my life and he should too. He contacted me again last year checking to find out if I wanted to start over. I think they have a reset button in their heads and believe they can always rekindle a flame that we might have carried for them so unless they are totally in love with someone else they come back. I even had a situation in the past where my girlfriend did everything to get a guy who was interested in me. I believe it was my masculine patterns that eventually caused him to gravitate towards her. After 18 years of marriage and a renewal of vows he admitted to me in front of her a couple years ago that I was the one he was interested in. I just played it down but she busted out laughing out of embarrassment. I have caught him at times staring at me when she is not around, they live in another city. I get the feeling he is asking himself, what if. I might be wrong but that is what I feel.

  372.  #372Lorelei on January 24, 2011 at 11:33 am

    FW @ 371

    Re: “I think they have a reset button in their heads and believe they can always rekindle a flame that we might have carried for them so unless they are totally in love with someone else they come back.”

    Is the difference, though, that they believe they can re-kindle a flame that was there once? I don’t feel that connected to TeaMan that I’m carrying a flame, unless he imagines that I am. Despite the attraction, I don’t feel he has kindled a flame in me! I’m too aware of the redflags . . .

    If he does come back, the blog will be the first to know!

  373.  #373Femininewoman on January 24, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Re 372 You know Lorelei guys have imaginations like we do. My understanding of the instant relationship is that we women develop it within the first week or the first date. So who knows. Plus guys have egos and many have more experience than us with different women. So they believe they know the triggers and whatever it takes to get us to drop our guard. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has other women “soft” on him. They keep their options open because they believe they can “win”.

  374.  #374Brenda on January 24, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    oops – got the code numbers wrong…5:30PST/8:30EST

    Call 1-218-862-7200

    Conference Code 417864

    See you there! Love, Rori

  375.  #375Jewel on January 25, 2011 at 5:14 am

    How can I condense my crazy situation here?? I’ll try…

    1. Met 2 years ago; his wife sent him to me, to have ‘someone to talk to’ (he cheated on her often and finally confessed it to her, and that he wanted to separate).

    2. They separated 1 month later

    3. Two weeks after that, we began being physical. He was also sporadically physical with her

    4. He told me he loved me, tells me often

    5. We see each other every day, by his initiation

    6. He does not lie to me, ever

    7. 18 months later, he put up many online profiles and told me it was for ‘distraction’ from his problems

    8. He has often told me that he is not ready for commitment, but that he doesn’t want to lose me

    9. This weekend was the third time he slept with someone random

    10. He is disgusted with himself and aware of the pain it causes me

    I told him I needed some time away from him, that I feel hurt and humiliated.

    I can’t have random sex with men, it’s not my way.

    I love him, and I know he loves me deeply.

    Before meeting me, he was excessively promiscuous, and I mean IN EXCESS (yes, whilst married too).

    That’s the tip of the iceberg….

    How long do I pine (yes, pine) before contacting him? I could not bear to call/text him and not get a reply. I have asked for time and he will respect that.

    Ladies I need all your advice….my friends have given me advice poles apart and I’m so confused! 🙁

  376.  #376Rori Raye on January 25, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Jewel – the ONLY question to ask is WHY are you spending one moment of your time on this man? so what if you love him? so what if he loves you? He cannot give you what you say you want. Unless you change what you want to fit what he can do – you are going to waste your life just as you’re wasting it now. Drop him. No contact. Yes, feel compassionate, yes, feel love – but go get what you want!!!! Love, Rori

  377.  #377Jewel on January 25, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Rori thank you for your reply….

    I have your ebook and receive your excellent newsletters, and I find them very valuable.

    I do not want to find a partner. I am widowed with 4 children and I’ve already done the ‘creating family’ thing with my wonderful late husband.

    This man came along and provided me with companionship and fun times, deep friendship above all.

    Your advice ‘drop him’ and ‘no contact’ seems to go against what I’ve read in your other publications…is there really no reason to continue being in contact with him?

    He is single-handedly raising his 5 children. We help each other as good friends do, in our daily struggles with single parenting.

    I did not expect to fall in love, and neither did he. I wasn’t like ‘oh, my husband died, now I need a man’ and I’m still not ‘looking’.

    He never promised me fidelity, and I said all along that I understood that.

    What I want is to have a boyfriend/girlfriend situation…the companionship, fun times, WITHOUT sleeping with other people. That’s all.

    If….he says he can’t do that, do I honour the friendship with him? Or do I throw the friendship away too? My sense of loyalty to my word and to friendship is strong.

  378.  #378Brenda on January 25, 2011 at 10:10 pm


    You said, “He never promised me fidelity, and I said all along that I understood that.”

    Then you said, “Do I honour the friendship with him? Or do I throw the friendship away too? My sense of loyalty to my word and to friendship is strong.”

    What I hear is you are loyal and devoted and honorable. But he is not, and that is acceptable to you…yet it’s not.

    I feel sad because I hear you taking crumbs. Few people are comfortable with a polyamory lifestyle. Obviously, you are not.

    How can there be any question? You want to be cheated on regularly? Stay with him.

    If you want a real relationship with real love, devotion, and loyalty, get out!

    You don’t sound like you are being true to your feelings. Give compassion and love to yourself, ok? Because it doesn’t sounds like he is.

  379.  #379Lori on January 26, 2011 at 8:11 am

    I am no longer a slave to my no sex boundary. No, nothing happened on my date with intense chemistry guy. He was very respectful of my boundary. But a light bulb went off in my head when I was with him. This is MY rule and boundary and I have the power to change, adapt, tweak, evolve or whatever else I want to do with it anytime I want. Whatever makes ME feel good and comfortable! I rule the boundary, it doesn’t rule ME! It felt so liberating to realize that and although I stuck to it on my date, I did so because I didn’t feel ready yet, not because I felt oppressed by my own boundary!

    I now kind of look at it like being on a diet. I’m on the diet to get certain results, but if I want to reward myself with a cookie now and then, it’s ok. It doesn’t blow the whole diet. I guess the important thing is that I feel strong and sireny enough to handle the consequences if things go wrong with breaking my no sex boundary.

  380.  #380Lori on January 26, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Also, I so get the whole dance/energy exchange thing now. Intense Chemistry guy also has an intense job and he told me that being with me makes him feel both relaxed and replenished at the same time. He said it feels like working really hard out in the cold all day and coming home to a fireplace and a hot meal. But I’m not DOING anything for him, just leaning back, unzippering my heart, receiving, being myself, being playful, feminine, flirtatious and appreciative of his efforts and this is how it is making him FEEL. He said most women feel like more work, but I make him feel good. Again, I’m not DOING anything for him. I’m leaning back completely. In fact, he is doing everything for me! But because I make him feel good and replenish his masculine energy with my feminine energy, he WANTS to do things for me and doing things for me doesn’t feel like work to him. He sent me flowers after our date and thanked me for letting him spend time with me! And this was after he drove 2 hours to meet me, picked out a restaurant in a town he wasn’t familiar with, planned the whole evening, picked me up, paid for the evening and a hotel room for himself.

    Like Rori says, the way to a man’s heart is through his HEART. I used to think if I attracted a man physically through sex and mentally through my intellect that he would fall in love with me. So I made sure I was the sexiest and most intelligent woman they would come across. And they liked me. Some even thought they loved me for a short while. But it never lasted. Because men fall in love with the women who make them FEEL something. My power with a man lies not in my body or my mind-he can find that anywhere. My power lies within my feminine energy which makes him feel good and which he craves. We lean back, he leans forward. He gives his masculine “giving” energy, we give back our feminine energy by receiving and appreciating. And he wants to work more and give more to get some of this energy because it makes him feel good, not like he’s working for it! It’s the women who share this energy with a man and make him feel something that he falls in love with.

    I’m getting it. I’m getting it. I’m getting it…

  381.  #381Pamelala on January 26, 2011 at 8:26 am


    I love the way you described the energy exchange. It makes me feel hopeful to hear about the way Intense Chemistry man perceived your leaning back as replenishing.

    As I look back on my behavior of the last few months, I realize that all of my ‘giving’ and overfunctioning was perceived as taking and needing by my guy.

    I’m so happy to hear that you are getting it and that it’s working! Bless you!

  382.  #382Lori on January 26, 2011 at 8:42 am


    Thanks for the compliment. I was a very masculine energy, classic overfunctioner 2 years ago. I planned and controlled every part of every relationship I ever had. It has taken hard work, patience, changing my vibe, rewiring my brain, letting of of outcomes and control and completely changing my way of thinking. I have screwed up and relapsed along the way. But the work is sooo worth it. Even friends and family members notice the difference in me. I get compliments all of the time now that have nothing to do with my looks, but more about my energy. I recently had a man tell me I was “stunning” and then went on to explain that a woman can’t be stunning just by being pretty, but that it is kind of a total package way a woman comes across. Another much older man told me I carried myself like the Hollywood movie stars from the 30s and 40s and said that “women aren’tmade with that kind of femininity anymore”! And I’m still a work in progress and learning and getting it more every day.

    I agree with you, giving too much in a relationship does feel like taking to a man. It feels like we are controlling the relationship to him. The only thing we have to give is our feminine energy, our attention and our appreciation for their efforts and the rest just comes from them and feels like a flowy back and forth exchange of giving and receiving. It feels good and it feels NATURAL, like this is the way it should be. I cannot tell you how much more relaxed I am since I stopped making all of the effort.

  383.  #383Lori on January 26, 2011 at 8:52 am

    Oh, also I wanted to say that the beginning of the date didn’t go so well. He was talking alot about himself and I couldn’t get a word in edgewise. I felt turned off and tense and the old me would’ve written him off as a self centered jerk in the first 5 minutes. But I used the Rori “nodding” tool and just leaned back and nodded my head and really listened to him without interrupting or waiting to speak. I got in touch with what was going on and how I was feeling and what was really going on.

    And I realized that he wasn’t talking so much because he was a self centered jerk, but because he wanted to impress me and he was NERVOUS! I felt myself relax and nodded some more and smiled and laughed, and then HE relaxed and stopped talking so much and the energy exchange started flowing. The rest of the date was perfect after that!

  384.  #384Gift_of_Love on January 26, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Lori, I really feel optimistic reading about the progress you’ve made and results you have seen. Totally in support of what you’re doing. I need to be where you are and am just starting the work.

  385.  #385Lucy on January 26, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    T-girl, Are you still looking to buy a used copy of Modern Siren? I may be interested in selling mine.


  386.  #386Lucy on January 26, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    “I just noticed my pining was less, cuz I had that safe cuddling feeling w a man again.” (Daria)

    This feels good to read. I can relate to what you experienced there.

  387.  #387Tmizz on January 26, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    RE: FemWoman #50 “Men go in their caves to process their emotions, they do NOT necessarily share it like we do, they are men.”

    That is SUCH a good quote. I really need to keep that in mind! Because it’s true – I always want to share, and I want to know what’s going on, but that may just not be his M.O. Not because he’s trying to hurt me, but because he’s a guy.

    It happened to me recently that a CD I hadn’t heard from in two weeks, for no particular reason, suddenly called me out of the blue. (There’s the prodigal CD!)

    He wants to see me “regularly” and is respecting my request to keep most of our dates on weekends. However, I know that with him I *really* have to watch my “leaning forward.” Particularly because he seems to like it…

    But I’m keeping myself from obsessing and focusing on him by thinking about Restaurant Guy, and other guys, and reminding myself that he’s not the ONLY guy. Stop Sign will come in handy!

    When I told one of my friends about how he went away and came back, she said, “What was he thinking?” I said I’d like to know that myself, but, he’s a guy. And he’s probably never going to tell me.

    On another topic, I know this is an old discussion from this thread, but I wanted to throw in my two cents about a guy referring to a woman he’s not married to as his “wife.”

    Just the idea of that triggers a really bad feeling for me. In fact, it’s one of my pet peeves when anyone, whether man or woman, refers to someone they are with as their spouse when they are not, in fact, married. This happened to me the first time a couple of years ago when I met a woman who kept talking about her husband this, and her husband that. She just kept saying it, “husband, husband, husband.” Like she was trying to convince herself it was true. She kind of was. Finally, it came out later that they were not married, they were engaged. But they were, according to her, “as good as married.” Again, it sounded like she was trying to convince herself of that, more than me. It came across to me as terribly insecure. But regardless of their quality as a couple, I felt lied to. I don’t think there was anything special about them. But no matter how close a couple is, saying that you are married when you are not is, basically, in all technical respects, a lie.

    For you, I think it’s interesting that you elicit a “husband/wife” type of response from males you come into contact with, even casually. That may well reflect some quality you have that makes them feel solid and comfortable and “husband-like” around you. That is very cool! But in my personal opinion, the only reason one of those guys should be allowed to call you his wife, or to refer to himself as your husband is if he ACTUALLY marries you. Otherwise, it sounds like, even if he’s just being “playful,” and even if it feels like he might be “testing the waters” to see how he feels about it – he is essentially teasing you. He’s giving you what “you want,” without really giving it to you. He’s saying something he may perceive that you want to hear. Or maybe he just wants all the benefits of “wifey” without actually having to make a commitment, and that, to me, feels like “crumbs.” And a woman of your siren-y goddessness, who can evoke a “husband” feeling in a man, just by being there, deserves way – WAY – better.


  388.  #388Jewel on January 26, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    @ brenda 378
    thanks for commenting…it all makes sense in black and white, as you say, yes I am honorable devoted and loyal, and in the sphere of relationship he is not.

    I called him over to talk last night; I thought I was ready to tell him it’s over. I had rebuffed all contact for 3 days, that’s an eon for us because we spend every day together. We realize we are in a co-dependant, addictive relationship.

    I repeated Rori’s words to him re “so what if I love you, so what if you love me, I’m not getting what I want from you and I can’t change it to fit what you can give me”.

    He accepted that. BUT he got upset at my confusion over continuing the friendship, accusing me of promising that out relationship wouldn’t touch the friendship. IDIOT!

    So obvious to me now, he wants his cake and eat it too, the best of me without responsibility, and he admitted that too. I can’t be more angry with him than at myself, because our entire journey has been up-front about this; he hasn’t hidden any agendas or made false promises. I, on the other hand, reassured him regularly that I could handle this ‘style’ of non-commitment, and that regardless of relationship issues, I could be his best friend always.

    I feel like I have been lying too..by promising friendship I held out hope that he would ‘wake up’ and not need other women anymore.

    I know it must end now. I just feel so sad, all the ‘leaning back’, efforts on my part in getting busy…all of that isn’t diluting the withdrawal symptoms when i’ not with him. It’s a sick addictive situation….I’d love to sleep this time off and wake up one day feeling nothing for him, not even regret or sadness that it didn’t work out.

  389.  #389Brenda on January 26, 2011 at 5:37 pm


    I’m sorry you’re hurting right now. It’s not that you were lying. It’s that maybe you were confused? Or weren’t clear on your feelings and your boundaries?

    For me, a lot of my healing is to discover and define my boundaries. I used to give the unspoken message, “It’s ok, you can kick me around and stomp all over my heart with your army boots!”

    The more I learn how to love myself, and treat myself with respect, the more I require that the men (and all) in my life treat me with equal love and respect.

    I used to be a serious crumb taker. I didn’t know any better. I have been healing my wounded heart for a lot of years. Now I want to be treated 1st class.

    I hope you do special things for yourself, like get a pedicure, or at least give yourself a pedicure. Or just spend an afternoon alone curled up in bed reading a book…whatever feels healing and delicious to your soul. This is about YOU.

    Hugs, Brenda

  390.  #390Brenda on January 26, 2011 at 5:43 pm


    Congratulations to you! You have made some monumental progress!

  391.  #391Femininewoman on January 26, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    RE 387 Tmizz you make a lot of sense. Thanks for that. I try to ignore it but at times wonder if it is like a pickup line because guys know we are looking to get married.

  392.  #392Brenda on January 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm


    FYI, most of us are on the newest threads here:


  393.  #393Tmizz on January 26, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    RE: Femininewoman – yes, and trust your gut, too. If it doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t!

  394.  #394Cherie on January 26, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Is it ok to give a letter rather than a speech? I feeling sick today .. Am not sure if I am really sick in tummy or emotionally sick. I feel like I am crying on the inside

  395.  #395Brenda on January 26, 2011 at 10:36 pm


    I think it’s all right to give a letter instead. Sometimes it helps to take your time formulating your words.

  396.  #396Brenda on January 26, 2011 at 10:43 pm


    Ryan took a class in Wicca once, and he wants to become a Priest. I think he means a Wiccan Priest, but he won’t tell me. I think my not-so-gentle communication skills shut him down. 🙁 or 🙂
    He told me he wanted to be a Priest twice while we were dating, and then tonight when we were texting. But he wouldn’t go any further than that any of the times.

    I told him I feel uncomfortable and vulnerable that I share my heart and spirit and he rarely reciprocates. He said I don’t feel comfortable sharing any more than that.

    Any suggestions?

  397.  #397tinque on January 27, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Cherie – It’s normally more effective, more impactful to say what you have to say in person.

    He can see you. He can feel you.

    A letter is okay, but it’s too easy for him to not really read, to put it aside, to ignore it.

    When you’re right there, he has to say something.


  398.  #398princess on January 31, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    What if… You were in an awkward relationship (he didn’t want to commit; he wanted to know what he feels for her ex, ’cause they have a child together), you were supportive, left him (because it wasn’t a healthy relationship), he came back after 2 months, because he realized he loved me…I didn’t trust his return was true (he didn’t seem to be quite bond to us as a couple), I started to talk (probably he understood this as not appreciating his “return” and his big love… And now I left because I couldn’t stand to see him uncommitted…. He didn’t want to let go to this insane “keep in touch”-thing, but now I made him not want to call me (when he doesn’t have anything else better to do) through some ugly words 🙁 Now I’m the one who feels bad… I have only one question: If he didn’t want a real relationship (even though I told him I do not want something else…probably I was obsessed with that), why did he have the need to maintain this masquerade, that lasted so much? Why did he have this hunger to hurt me, even if I was sincere with him, I always reminded him to be true, no matter what?? 🙁 Now he is “hurt” because I have “chosen not to answer his calls/text messages/mails. But is a relationship based only on these things?

  399.  #399Suzan on March 2, 2011 at 11:54 am

    was just reading through this blog and avoiding pinging my ex turned into friend whom i crave for so much and lo he himself pinged me, something which he never does 🙂

  400.  #400Andrea on June 17, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    @Suzan, Oh how I crave this man and WISHED he would ping me, but reality is beginning to settle in for me and I now facing the fact that he may NEVER call, text, hold me or tell me he loves me again. I wanted to email him today and kept looking at my clock here in LA and realizing what time it is in London; thinking he should be home from work now. I prayed about it each time I wanted to email him and before I knew it, I hadn’t! Now I’m wrestling with wanting to call or email to wish him a happy father’s day on Sunday. I also wonder if he’ll call or email me on my birthday Tuesday, but I purposely scheduled an appointment with the customer in the field so that I wasn’t setting around waiting for him to call. But again, OH HOW I MISS THIS MAN (Yankee Doodle came to town……..)

  401.  #401Sarah on November 21, 2011 at 2:58 pm


  402.  #402mali on November 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Awww. I just received this from a CD:

    “I don’t want to come across as too forward or make you feel under pressure therefore when your ready, let me know when you are free and lets have a nice meal together”

    How sweet!! I feel so good reading that! =)

  403.  #403rosa on February 22, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    i have read the above posting about the stop sign, how do i go about making my self do this, i wanna try an get over him, he is toxic, i believe. but i continue to allow him to rent a space in my head, rent free….! recently i have not heard from him since this past week, i am thinking like tuesday morning , i had sent him a text wanting to ask him a question, he proceeded to come off to me with a automatic attitude, first thing in the morning, i never told him the question i wanted to ask him and he automaticaly assumed i was with my x husband,. this has got to be too much and wanna stop this every 2 week booty call, he is definetly my weakness , for sure . his daughter works where i do and she has told him every thing basicaly do at work, or who calls for me on my phone , even though i dont tell her , who it is. i am the one that stuck my neck out there for her to get the job, and now this is what i get in return is treated like crap, im thinking like dis respected to , cause reason why i say this, is due to he called me one night, asked me what i was doing, and i said resting,y cause i had to work that night . i asked him the same thing…. he had said, coming to see you .. i was ohhh. he came to my house, well my friends house, wherei am staying, i let him in and he proceeded to say after he gave me a peck( Kiss) on my lips and said now i am not gonna get anything on my lips am i ……???? i said why would you .? i was fully dressed in the clothes that i had worn that day he stripped down to his undershorts and i was still dresssed an got mad cause i was still dressed and i had said i am cold and just had fallen asleep. we normally sleep bare skinned when we are in bed together, , i proceeded to get undressed and cuddled up next to him and went back to sleep till ihad to get ready for work, he got up and got dressed and left. , my male bestie said that i should have just told him to leave when he made the comment he did .. i miss him like crazy and still think about him, he is like a bad habit i cant shake, even if i wanna go meet another guy, i feel guilty, so it backs me off to getting to know some one else .. he is always wondering where i am…what i am doing,.. who iam with.. so on and so forth.. but according to him all this .. is all my fault of the reason why we are not a couple.. it hard not to think of him and worry about him and be concerned and care for him. iam single and have been, cause i feel like i wanna wait for him and see what he does or if he even wants to try to date each other again. i know i want this more than anything. miss him alot … just need some help getting through this … i guess iam crying out for help again.. now that i feel like i can .. lost with out him for sure, not sure why ,? i have been in several abusive relationships and thinking verbal is just as bad as physical, ,, might as well beat the crap out of me, it feel like the same thing, .

  404.  #404rosa on February 22, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    re. t girl- i think we are in the same boat, i was basically in the same situaton,, whats wrong with us ? i feel same way but, in return if i found out that my fwb guy was with another woman it would kill me and to even think about he is or was hurts that much more.. i wish you the best of luck in getting over him and getting to know your self again, no one will take care of you .. except you . my inner voice keeps telling me iam crazy for putting up with the things i do … just gotta make her feel better as well as my self and be able to move on.. iam sure your little girl inside is screaming out, just like mine.