A New Tool To Instantly Feel Better & Draw Him In

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angerIf you’re urgently struggling with issues with a man, and it’s making it hard for you to get everything you want, know that you can solve this – step-by-baby-step.

When things get huge, and a man is acting – maybe even suddenly – in a way that’s painful and frustrating, it’s tough to see how to start chipping away at the problem so things will work out the way you want – but you can do it.

All you need is a place to get started, some new skills and support.

Have you ever felt at the absolute end of your “rope”?

Like things can’t get any worse and you don’t know what to do first to set your relationship – even your whole life – back on the right track?

I remember what feeling hopeless felt like.

I remember getting up every morning determined to change things, and by lunchtime feeling lost again.

I remember trying so many things to feel better, to get my man back in the relationship, or to just TREAT me differently, and feeling like I was banging my head against a wall.

I remember my natural cheerfulness and upbeat hopefulness giving way to despair.

And I also remember pulling myself out.

I remember when the sunlight started to break through the clouds, when things stopped being so gray.

I remember that it took me a long time, but I also remember what it was that actually changed things for me (it wasn’t just “time…”) – and it was something I’ve now learned to do FAST – before things go downhill.

So many of my Tools are about lifting yourself up so that you can feel more powerful in your relationship with a man and therefore be more ATTRACTIVE to him and to good things happening to you – and today I want to share and work with a letter from Jeanne, who’s just about hitting rock bottom.

You can hear the pain and hopelessness in her voice, and there’s so much in her letter for us to work with and create a new way for Jeanne to solve her problems and help you with yours, too.

I know this is not a letter with a “quick fix” answer. And yet, if we can help Jeanne, with the seriousness and intensity she’s experiencing, then imagine what you can do in your situation – and be sure to let me know what works for you here.

Dear Rori,

I am a 44 year old female with no future, a past that has disappeared and at present, I’ve lost the family I wanted so badly to keep together.

When my mother died, I went through 8 years of a severe health problem and suffering depression. One morning I woke up with swollen feet and ankles that I couldn’t even wear my regular shoes, which began my nightmare. One of the many I’ve lived through since the day I was born.

I was 16 and my husband was 19 when we got married – sooner than we planned when I became pregnant, but we were in love. I loved him for loving me the way he did. However, I gained 80 pounds with my first son, and never lost all of it.

So, after 18 years of not feeling the love he once had for me, I started losing weight and toning up, and my husband was finally feeling the way he did for me back when we met. I was beginning to feel alive by walking and getting in shape and seeing my husband change toward me again.

Then I became so very unhappy with him because of the same arguments about all the female friends he’s always surrounded himself with, stealing the friends I had before him along the way. Which is why I absolutely have “NO FRIENDS” and why I keep to myself all the time, and I ended up not wanting to continue with the walking because I felt he didn’t deserve to have me anymore.

Then my mom’s cancer came back, and as I said before, I began to swell up like a balloon. I gained 100 pounds in a month.

Needless to say, my husband found a 22 year old “friend” to talk to and help him with all his emotional suffering of being married to a FATSO with an invisible health problem. He felt I was just being lazy, and I was mourning my moms death for too long.

My life growing up, where there was never enough attention left over for me, has repeated itself. I fell in love with someone that worshipped me, or so I thought. Our fights consisted of his having other females as “friends” and how I wasn’t putting up with it, but I ended up living exactly the way he wanted things because it was much easier.

I gave up on me!

He’s now moved in with his female “friend” who we spent many hours and years arguing over. They’re both sick if you ask me, and I am alone with the 2 sons we had together, the big house he always hated, and never like the way I didn’t keep up with it, and the memories of my failure as a woman, and a wife, and even as a good mother… The 3 things I based my entire life on, and prayed so hard to change the mistakes I saw my mother make with my father, etc…

Where do I go from here? I feel I need to change from the first thought I ever had, the first word I ever said, and from the first lesson I was ever taught.

Is there hope for me in this marriage because I’m not sure I want to lose him? How do I find out how I really feel? Can you help? Jeanne”

***I hear Jeanne’s tremendous pain and know nothing I say will change her life instantly. But I’d like to pull all these problems apart and put them back together in a way we can chip away at one step at a time.

The first big question, no matter what’s going on for any of us, is Where do I start?

And the place to start – always – is with the basics, and prioritizing them.

If we feel crappy, we can’t have anything other than a crappy relationship.

So Jeanne’s first challenge is her physical health and emotional self-esteem.

As Jeanne sees, they go hand in hand.  When we feel ill and out-of-control, we feel helpless.

And then the next step is always anger.

Anger at ourselves, and anger at our man.

When Jeanne says “I ended up not wanting to continue with the walking because I felt he didn’t deserve to have me anymore,” and that because of his behavior “I absolutely have no friends,” we can see that the way she chose to PUNISH her man was by punishing HERSELF!

And we all do that all the time!

When was the last time you dove into a pint of ice cream at midnight because you were angry at a MAN for not calling?

When was the last time you stayed home, sticking to your “exclusive” relationship with a man who was NOT doing the “job” of “good boyfriend,” instead of going out with friends, or even DATING YOURSELF at a book store or coffee house or jazz club?

When was the last time you allowed yourself and your needs to be at the bottom of your list?

Jeanne’s situation is so extreme because this man she married at 16 is ALL she KNOWS.

She never had a chance to grow up as her own person before she became a wife and mother.

And Jeanne – what I want to tell you is that right now you have the opportunity of your lifetime.

For the first time, you have a chance to see your life as YOUR LIFE, and not as a part of someone else’s.

For the first time, you have a chance to be IN CHARGE of your life, instead of allowing your life to just be a REACTION to someone else.

In making our list of the basics, and putting the steps we have to make and the things we want in some kind of order, Jeanne’s man should go somewhere near the BOTTOM.

That’s right.

NO MAN should EVER get to take you down the tubes.

The only place a man gets to take us to is Happy Ever After.

If the ride of a man’s life is taking him somewhere that can only mean unhappiness for us, and we’re strapped to him, we’re going down the tubes strapped to him.

And I don’t want you EVER to have that horrible feeling of being strapped to a man who’s taking you down the tubes.

So, Jeanne – and if you’re feeling strapped to a man who’s not talking you where you want to go, this will help you, too – UNSTRAP YOURSELF.

So what does this look like?

It’s not “Letting Go,” because I don’t think Letting Go is a helpful image here.

“Letting Go” feels like a man is going somewhere great and we have to let him go there without us.

But that’s hardly EVER what’s really happening.

What’s usually happening is that a man is doing what he’s doing – he’s doing what he wants, following his gut, and we somehow feel strapped on to him.

It’s usually HIM trying to “Let Go” without REALLY Letting Go (that’s the part about all those female “friends” in Jeanne’s letter), and often a  man Lets Go by doing awful things.

Sometimes it’s just withdrawing, and we can bring him back in easily at that point , and sometimes it’s really terrible, unforgivable things like cheating and being abusive.

But no matter WHAT’S going on, the BASIC first step is ALWAYS to plant your own feet, find your own life, feel your own heart, and UNSTRAP yourself from him.

Relationship is a dance.

It’s not tandem sky-diving, where you’re falling together through space strapped to each other.

It’s a dance where each person is CHOOSING freely to be dancing.

And where the commitment of the dance is not a strap holding you together, but the rings, the vows, the public legal papers saying you are DANCE PARTNERS.

Even dance partners sit down.

One partner goes to the punch bowl and one person goes to the restroom.

But when the music starts, you dance together.

If a man stops dancing, the only way to get him back is to dance by yourself, beautifully, happily, inspiringly and with your whole heart.

And if he still doesn’t come and claim you, then someone else will.

But in the meantime, you have to know how to dance by yourself, and that’s where Jeanne needs to start.

So, let’s start.

Jeanne, unstrap yourself from this man.

Imagine you were dancing with him, strapped together, and he’s been pulling you along to a place where you can hardly even recognize yourself.

Now just imagine yourself unstrapping yourself.

Now step back.

Now surround yourself with an imaginary, gorgeous field of light and love that has strength and power, and that’s all YOURS.

Imagine you carry this field of strength and power and light with you all the time.

Imagine it FEEDING you strength and courage every moment of every day.

Imagine that ALL your feelings are feeding you, even the ones you don’t like, like anger and despair.

Now imagine good things coming in to you and your life because this gorgeous field of love and light and strength is always around you, and all kinds of great things – great health, great wisdom, great power, great MEN are ATTRACTED to you ALL THE TIME.

Imagine people can SEE this field of love and light around you and they’re just automatically drawn to you.

Now FORGET about your husband.

You don’t have to Let Go.

Just forget for a moment, that there’s anyone or anything outside your field of gorgeous love and light.

Imagine everything worth having in your life is COMING to you.

How does that feel?

Really take a moment for yourself and imagine what it would feel like to have EVERYTHING you want coming to YOU, instead of you having to go out and get it.

Does it feel strange?

Does it feel like a fantasy that can’t come true?

Well, sometimes things we think are pure fantasy are actually very real.

In reality, we’re all electrical beings.

We give off electricity, and we connect to electricity that’s all around us and in the air.

If you’ve ever experienced an electrical shock, you know how real that is.

Or touched someone and felt that sharp static electricity jolt.

So it’s not so fantastical to imagine that the electricity you give off – your “vibe” has a color and a frequency and a power to it that can either draw love and people in, or push them away.

So, Jeanne, your basic first step, for today, is to BUILD UP your “vibe” into a gorgeous field of love and light, any color you choose, giving off any sound frequency you choose, so that you can dance with yourself in a brave and beautiful way.

The next steps will all be about taking better care of yourself physically and emotionally, creating an environment for yourself in your home and family that feels good to you, and allowing the outside world of work and man to dance with YOU!

You can do this step-by-step – to get some specifics on health and taking care of yourself, hang around and read in your local bookstore or library – it’s a great place to meet people who are working on the same issues, and a great place to DATE YOURSELF and to flirt.

Be sure to let me know how the UNSTRAP YOURSELF and BUILDING YOUR FIELD Tools work for you.

Also let me know if you’d like me to address some of the specifics of Jeanne’s letter – like how to deal with this “girlfriends” problem.

There are many ways to build an amazing connection with a man that will take you to the happiness you want and deserve.

And most of us have never even HEARD of most of them.

Instead, we’ve been taught to do exactly what PUSHES a man away, and practically guarantees that the men we attract will not be the ones we truly want.

And then it backfires on us, and like Jeanne, we start working AGAINST ourselves.

I care about you, I want to be here for you, and
truly look forward to hearing your stories – both
your successes and challenges.

Love, Rori


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  1.  #1Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    I love this article Rori, very timely for me!

  2.  #2Millie on May 14, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    Lovergirl I was thinking the same thing!!!

  3.  #3Victoria on May 14, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    I was also thinking that this article is especially for you.
    I also wanted to tell you that what you feel right now, unloved, that you will never find a better man than the one who is now not responding to your love etc is so common. Every woman has felt like that at a time when her love was not reciprocated.
    I felt like that at the ripe age at 22 when I was dumped by my boyfriend of 5 years… I felt my world was shuttered, I was devastated, I could not eat or sleep, I had a severe pneumomia (I just wanted to die in an attempt to draw some sympathy from him).
    You are not unlovable, you are wonderful, and beautiful, and desirable, you have all the evidence for that in front of your eyes if you just care to see it.
    It seems to me that you just need to release your expectation that you can change a man’s wishes, and possibly allow him to leave your life completely, so you could have the space for new love to come in. Just my 2 cents.

  4.  #4Indigo on May 15, 2015 at 12:38 am

    This is a gorgeous article, and definitely timely for me.

    I recently read an article by Tatia Dee, which is similar, about being the butterfly in the garden. I LOVED it.

    It gave me such a clear idea of where I want to be, and more importantly, how I want to be in my life. Not reacting to, not affected by, the actions of the other people in my life, of the people around me. Not getting into their energy, their business, or what I think they’re thinking, feeling or intending. But rather existing for the person I want to be. For the light, love and joy that’s within me. Drawing people to me because of my warmth and confidence, and not worrying what they are doing, or whether they “like” me or not. But just dancing my own sweet dance, living my own sweet life, singing my own sweet song, and sharing it if someone wants to come close.

  5.  #5ruth on May 15, 2015 at 2:57 am

    thank you for this
    Timely for me too

  6.  #6Femininewoman on May 15, 2015 at 4:45 am

    What a lovely post. Reading through it feels like reading about my 18 year old daughter living her life. Just yesterday she was telling me about where she is at with a guy she was infatuated by. He told her some good things a few months back including that when he is ready to get married he can see himself married. She has shared everything with me throughout and I have been sharing Rori with her. She told me yesterday that now she can only see him as a friend and that she is not infatuated with him anymore. A nerdy guy invited her to a movie with him today. The same movie she turned down last week with the other guy because she is clear that it seems he always want to change her and like she can’t just be “right” with him. She said she doesn’t feel like she can be herself. Meanwhile with Mr. Nerd she can just relax and be. I felt so proud listening to her and noticing the choices she was making in choosing herself.

  7.  #7Femininewoman on May 15, 2015 at 4:51 am


    He can see himself married to her in 5 years time. He is very handsome in comparison to the other guy and have a lot of girls flocking him. He came towards my daughter even when she was hesitant and kept coming forward until she accepted a date with him.

  8.  #8Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 5:00 am

    Millie #393 from last post
    YOU ARe Sooo poetic!!!
    I love reading what you wrote!!!
    I have pasted and copied in my archives…
    I love the image of
    you as a mermaid with your long red hair sitting on a rock and letting the old rotten wood drift away and go out to sea…
    And the bright new day bringing new things,
    NEW hope bright promises!!!

  9.  #9Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 5:01 am

    so lovely to read how well you have taught your daughter!!
    She is choosing HERSELF!!!
    You must be sooo proud

  10.  #10Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 5:05 am

    This post is SOOO perfect!
    I love reading about this NEW tool…
    I will be practicing this…
    Just what I am in need of!!!

    “Now surround yourself with an imaginary,
    gorgeous field of light
    and love
    that has strength and power,
    and that’s all YOURS.

    Imagine you carry this field of strength
    and power
    and light with you all the time.

    Imagine it FEEDING you strength
    and courage
    every moment of every day.

    Imagine that ALL your feelings are feeding you,
    even the ones you don’t like,
    like anger and despair.

    Now imagine good things coming in to you
    and your life
    because this gorgeous field of love
    and light and strength is always around you,
    and all kinds of great things – great health,
    great wisdom,
    great power,
    great MEN
    are ATTRACTED to you ALL THE TIME.

    Imagine people can SEE this field of love
    and light around you
    and they’re just automatically drawn to you.”

  11.  #11Victoria on May 15, 2015 at 6:45 am

    Azure darling,
    How are things with Spirit?
    For me, as a consequence of the big fight earlier this week ( or inspite of it :-)). F has been seeing me more, and is also making plans for the next date. I wonder is I shall be bragging about this yet, as last time I said I saw improvement, it was short-lived and combined with renewed propensity to cancel, it’s like one step forward two steps back.
    On the positive side, it is a dance :-).
    We did have a good heart-felt conversation today about how much I love planning and how much he just does not care about it, and we confirmed to each other that we love each other very much inspite of these deficiencies (I never thought that being always on time and with good time management skills is a problem, but hey, one person’s ridiculous, is another person’s reality, lol).
    How have you been?

  12.  #12Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Ohhh lovely Siren…
    I am VERY jealous… ;->
    to hear how F is making more effort than ever…
    AND you all had such an intimate talk
    about how to work things out…
    Sharing Who each one is…
    Soooo lovely!!

    Did F stay in contact after you talked about what would feel good?

    I feel VERY confused…
    and then other times I feel VERY sure that
    I’ve just been getting crumbs…
    NOT been to his house yet…
    HE has made some BIG efforts

    As a result of my asking for a discussion on what might be going on with him… “Spirit please help me understand”
    He text me a Happy monthers day on Sun.
    And NOTHING since…
    we havn’t seen each other in 2 weeks…
    He did call last Sat. when I said it would feel good to talk on the phone…

    I go back and forth with… I should just call and make it light hearted and start communication…
    But ask him what a relationship looks like to him…

    OR give him his space and start contacting men on POF… NOT sure I’m ready for that yet…

    I have SOOO much to take care of in MY life…
    MY bedroom is a disaster… I want to paint my kitchen
    and I want to volunteer more at my local food bank…

    Any words of wisdom darling Siren?

  13.  #13Lovergirl on May 15, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Victoria 3-

    Thank you! I have been thinking I definitely need to release my expectations with S. I’m not sure I’m ready to give him up entirely but maybe need to let go of the idea that he will ever come around to wanting to get serious. Easier said than done.

    I’ve thought before that maybe the best route for me is the Rori Raye 3rd way, as she calls it in one of her articles. I could continue to keep him around as a friend/fwb and circular date. The only problem with that is my emotions sometimes get tangled up and in the way. Maybe though, if I really get realistic with myself it won’t be a problem.

  14.  #14Victoria on May 15, 2015 at 7:31 am

    I think it is very counterproductive to tell ourselves that someone is giving us crumbs.
    The men in our lives are giving us what they have, sometimes it is not too much, but it is all they have.
    Saying that someone gives you crumbs makes him a villian, and I do not think this is the case with Spirit.
    I think he is a wonderful man, who is a bit clueless, a bit egoistic, a bit-selfcentered (like we all are) but he would never hurt you on purpose.
    I have said it to you severeal times, I believe that unless you learn to play and, more importantly, love golf, you will have to live with long absenses from him. You, or any lucky woman who is dating him :-). I know some of the wonderful siren here think you can enjoy the after party, hang out at the spa, etc., I know from first hand experience that it totally does not work for me, have dated a golfer, never again, cross my heart, I do not want any athletes, thank you very much, someone lazy and kind of on the chubby side is better company than a golfer any day of the week.
    No words of wisdom from me, my darling!

  15.  #15Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Leaning Back helps ME get a clear
    look at what *I* really deserve AND want…

    Spirit had shared with me on Fri nite in a text last week… “I am lonely” and I ignored this…
    I feel bad I ignored this…
    I was missing him… I was angry he hadn’t gotten back to me when *I* text him on Thur. morning…
    *HE* did call when I asked him to…
    and then I sprung the
    “For me I want a relationship where we see each other on a regular basis, we talk on the phone on a regular basis, we spend the night at least once a week” “I hope that is what you have in mind”

    Spirit is broke right now (building up a new client list)
    and will have his daughter
    probably for the rest of his life…

    He has helped ME see
    How much day to day contact I DO want
    YES… day to day is what I want!!

    This is what I shared with him last Sat…
    He hadn’t heard that before…

    He knows if he isn’t wanting that
    I will start dating others…
    that is what happened 6 months ago…

    I feel angry and hurt that he has not responded to my plea for helping me understand for almost a week..

    We have been seeing each other for 10 months…
    Does Rori and Evan say for ME to make the effort to resolve things because we have more of a solid relationship (timewise)
    Not sure…
    I think Dominique says to lean forward if it feels good…
    I feel scared… Not sure…

  16.  #16Victoria on May 15, 2015 at 7:41 am

    Men tend to come around to the idea what they want to commit when we no longer care about that.
    It has happened to me more than once, I know the lesson quite well now. When I give up on him, and get busy busy busy and devoted to me (this usually goes together with a period of some serious big time creativity at work) he would come around.
    This is what Rori teaches as well. Focus on yourself, away from him.
    I am not sure if you can actually work outside of home with 5 kids, but if you could, that would be something useful and meaningful in itself, and would naturally focus you away from him.

    Much love to you!

  17.  #17Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 7:45 am

    AHhhhh… thank you for your patients lovely Siren

    I sooo agree with your wise words…
    YOU are right…Spirit is giving Me ALL that he can…
    HE isn’t giving this time and effort to anyone other women.
    and HE isn’t trying to hurt ME…
    He feels scared also… NO ONE wants to get hurt!!

    Ahhh… yes, he is the first athlete I’ve ever dated…

    However… I dated him last summer and we did see each other quite a bit despite the golfing…
    BUT the weekends would be ME on my own!

    AND yes… maybe I need to realize this will go on
    HE doesn’t want me hanging out with him after golf
    that often…

    I have dated quite a few men who were VERY willing to take ME golfing and to teach ME… THOSE are the ones I probably need to concentrate on

    There are SOOO many golfers in my age group out there… I can’t imagine cutting out that whole group!!!

  18.  #18Victoria on May 15, 2015 at 7:51 am

    I also think that you could have a friendship or FWB with him ONLY if you can tolerate the idea that he will be openly chasing other women in front of your eyes, and, more or less you will be witnessing that he is trying to find his One, and has disqualified you for this position.
    That would be sheer agony to me.

  19.  #19Victoria on May 15, 2015 at 7:52 am

    This is what I am saying, if you can’t beat them, join them, lol!

  20.  #20Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Just like Indigo was saying to lovegirl…

    concentrate on the things I can change…
    ME being with a man who WANTS to teach me golf!!!

  21.  #21Labbit on May 15, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Azure Blu,

    I agree with what Victoria says about not making him a villain, though I have not seen you do this anyway. For me the idea of not taking crumbs is really important, because it’s a reminder to me I have a habit of giving myself less than what I need to feel nourished, which only ends up harming me. And this is something I can control…I get to choose who nourishes me and how much.

    What I have found is that with the right man things flow in a mostly easy way. It’s never perfect; there are always compromises and disagreements may arise. But overall there is a deep sense of peace that comes with a good relationship, a sense of knowing that this man would step into the fire for you. I see examples of this among my friends…some of whom are older than me and have been married 25+ years happily. I can think of two friend-couples who still act like it’s their honeymoon and both have been together for 30+ years. In every case BOTH people in the couple are invested in making things work, in treating their partner with respect, in dropping their own agenda to see things through their partner’s eyes.

    From my experience, once I start making excuses for a man’s behavior (or my own!) that’s the path that leads to trouble. The simplest explanation for what a man’s doing is often the right one…Occam’s Razor. Men do what they want to do. And the question is, can you accept whatever behavior is causing the stress? When men cannot, they walk away. They expect we will do the same…yet we women find it so hard to back away from even painful, awful situations. I know I have found it hard in the past.

    I had a habit of thinking that when things go wrong with a guy there’s something wrong with ME. That I have to FIX ME to ‘make it better.’ And while there are always things I can learn…ways to grow and improve myself and become my fullest self…mostly the idea that I have to change to fit some ideal is BS. I saw my friends who seemed to so effortlessly fall into perfect relationships and wondered, why is this not happening for me?

    Now I see that some things in life (success at work, fitness, etc.) come pretty naturally to me, but other things like relationships are where my journey lies. Does this mean I’m a bad person? Not fit for a relationship? No. It just means I get to taste more flavors of ice cream before I find the one that’s perfect for me. 🙂

    Don’t set your heart on oreo ice cream when there are hundreds of other flavors to choose from. Maybe oreo comes back into stock tomorrow and all is well — and maybe you find out that cookie dough is really the flavor you wanted all along.

  22.  #22Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 8:07 am

    and I’m thinking I just need to do the “radically accepting tool”
    Darling Azure… YOU have not done ANYthing wrong…
    You are exactly where you need to be right NOW…
    I am giving YOU all MY love… Alll my time and All my compassion cause I know you are not feeling good right now…
    Just sit here… Sit here and feel
    Soooo many many many good things are happening..

  23.  #23Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 8:13 am

    Ahhhh… THANK YOU!!!
    SUch wonderful words…

    I know I need to let go…
    Much of this is NOT what I want…

    I am finding it MUCH more difficult
    than I thought I would…

    No Oreo cookie is NOT the flavor I like, anyway…
    I just thought I’d give it a try…

    Now courage lovely AZURE
    and go get what YOU REALLY WANT!!!

  24.  #24Dominique on May 15, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Azureblu – 15 – Leaning forward is perfectly okay, a good idea even sometimes.BUT you want to be very clear that no expectations are attached to it. In other words you’re doing because you want to, it feels good, and you are not looking for anything at all back. If has to be a clean lean forward. Otherwise you will be setting yourself up for disappointment, and this doesn’t feel good. Plus your man will feel this, and it will feel like pressure which never feels good to anyone.

  25.  #25Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Thank you for that gentle reminder!!
    It is so good to hear your wise, gentle Siren perspective.

  26.  #26Linda on May 15, 2015 at 11:17 am

    Oh now I like that…. “Clean Lean”. I am going to remember that.

    For the most part I like leaning back when it comes to men so much so that it has become very difficult for me to flip it. I like the feeling of his energy coming toward me and receiving it. It wasn’t until I developed this skill that could feel the difference inside.

    THere is for me though a deeper level of personal work that I have have to do in this area. It gets triggered in a the situation when communication or a mans energy coming toward me is not consistent or communication is not returned. Just like what Azure has been experiencing. Stuff like that just really really gets under my skin! There are times I get infuriated because it feels just plain rude, and especially so when there was a specific question asked and days go by and nothing. It does not feel right or okay on any level or acceptable in any kind of relationship. WHen stuff like this happens I feel like a pinball machine with a steel ball getting bounced and shot around inside me sometimes. The only way I can get a sense of balance in this type of situation once a “pattern of behavior” has been established I simply want to get it out of my life… let the ball just pass thru and end the play.

    Yep it triggers all kinds of things in me which is okay but I get bored and disinterested and honestly dismissive. I begin to believe that he’s not interested really and is not being genuine with me. Kinda like the little boy who cried wolf… pretty soon you just don’t believe them.

    I have no problem filling up my time with things that feel great and make me happy.

  27.  #27Labbit on May 15, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Rori, I am definitely interested to hear more about this ‘girlfriends’ issue and your advice on how to handle it. I am intrigued with all of your posts which talk about ways to out-feminine any other woman…though other women around my men are not an issue to me, I still find the tools I learn from these posts SO USEFUL! Especially as I continue to make the transition from living mostly in masculine energy to living mainly in feminine energy.

    I have one friend who pulled this off. She lost her husband to another woman…a woman who at first seemed very Sireny to me. About the same age as my friend, but more perky and bouncy and feminine. The husband left my friend because she was ‘too stressed out and worrying about the future all the time’. Well my friend knew that he had chosen her, and she was not going to give up without a fight. So she basically did everything Rori talks about. She forgot ALL ABOUT HIM and concentrated on making her life awesome. New haircut, new wardrobe, lots of time devoted to making herself feel good. She hired a part-time babysitter for her two kids so she could join a gym. She joined 2-3 new social groups — one of which is where I met her. She went out on TONS of dates and everytime she heard from her husband, she kept the conversation short and happy. How happy she was to hear from him, how sad she felt with him not there, how great her life was going. She never made any demands of him…never brought up the other woman…just listened to what he had to say.

    He was back with her within 6 months. At first, he ‘accidentally’ showed up for dinner one night. (Went to the wrong house, he said.) My friend could have been upset but she kept her cool, invited him in, and was warm and loving to him. She didn’t allow him to stay the night though she did thank him for coming over. Then it was 2 nights a week for dinner. Then the weekend dates started. And it grew from there. He clearly still loved her…he just didn’t understand the person she’d become. When she found her passion for her own life again, separate from him, no other woman could ever compete for his heart. He clearly wanted her and her only. This was 4 years ago…they are still very happily together! The other woman disappeared quickly.

    Personally, it’s never bothered me when my man has lots of women, even close women friends, around him. They have never felt like a threat to me even when it was clear that they had feelings for my guys, and my guy maybe even had low-level feelings for her. I have always assumed that if a guy is with me I’ve ‘won’ so to speak. Usually I end up being very nice to the gals and becoming friends with most of them…or they mysteriously fade away. 😉

    Perhaps this is because I have a lot of guy friends. Well…more accurately I have a lot of friends, period, with the split being about 60% gals and 40% guys. I’m a very social person. I like spending my free time around other people, and Tender is much the same. He has plenty of female friends and I think they are all wonderful! Luckily all his girl friends are very respectful and while a few have admitted totally having a crush on him at one time or another, I trust all of them. I trust him, and most of all I trust myself. I would know if something was fishy…or it would be revealed to me very quickly. I have no doubt of this.

    I can think of a few guy friends I’ve lost because their girlfriend or wife asked them to stop hanging around with any women friends they had (never me specifically), and I’ve always found this to be very sad. I understand it…but I don’t like it. And I can’t imagine the guy liked it much either.

  28.  #28Linda on May 15, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Azure I so identify with where you are at. I honestly feel protective of you as a sister siren. I feel triggered.

    IF nothing else you are really getting some time to develop your do and don’t list want list in a relationship. We all need to discover what our deal breakers and must have are. Your list you gave to Spirit was not iffy. I would say it was pretty clear “man speak” meaning he should have been able to hear it clearly. THen to hear nothing back for days and days?

    I can tell my boy energy wants to step up and take care of my girl. It is like I shift gears.. and my boy comes and puts his arm around my girl who is feeling hurt and unheard. After a regroup, I find myself being drawn toward what makes me happy and away from what doesn’t. Going days without any communication with someone does not promote closeness or a growth of it. It is something that I place a very high value upon and want. Without is my interest fizzles. I am have moved past trying to inspire or send feeling messages or anything. I guess I shut down.

    I still have work to do on this front in my life.

    You are doing great… I am processing my triggers.

  29.  #29Millie on May 15, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    Labbit 27— I really love the story about your friend!!! I feel inspired reading it to take control and own my happiness!

  30.  #30Tereana on May 15, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    Oops, here I am. I was posting on the old thread….

  31.  #31Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 4:18 am


    I’ve been a Rori follower (probably graduate) for about 5yrs now. I don’t post much but I read regularly and I have been following your story closely. It closely mirrors one of my past experiences and I decided today to share that experience specifically with you and perhaps it might help you in some way. Hopefully you will realize that your situation that looks bleak right now might just be the last clouds before a burst of Sunlight!

    So, I’ve been divorced for 15yrs. Since then, have dated all times of men (mostly online) inter-racial and otherwise, made numerous mistakes along the way, got my heart severely broken a few times. I was convinced I was broken and would never find someone who truly loved me. I had friends who appeared to be in successful relationships and could never understand why I couldn’t. For 10yrs, I did not have one relationship that lasted up to a year and in almost every case the guy broke it off. By most standards, I’m considered attractive, intelligent and successful.

    In 2008, when I was 40, I met a guy who was introduced to me by a dating service. I subscribed to 10 introductions, he was about my 4th or 5th and the only one that “worked out”. I sent the 1st text (my 1st mistake) and he called the next day. We clicked right away. He later shared that he got 2 introductions at the same time but he decided to only focus on me. Our first date was awkward. I liked him but thought he was too attractive, he was I guess lukewarm about me. We continued texting and talking after our 1st meeting but with less intensity than before we met. He felt if I lost a few pounds, we could make it. I went ahead and lost weight. I invited him places, bought concert tickets, invited him to parties and thanked him profusely whenever he accompanied me. I “pursued” him for about 6 months and we got closer. During this time, he shared with me that he had an ex who he was not in a relationship with but they have sex sometimes but have an agreement to stop if either one got into a relationship.

    On Christmas eve that year (after about 9-10months of meeting), he told me that he has decided to stop seeing the other lady and have a relationship with me. I was ecstatic……

  32.  #32Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 4:35 am

    We had intense chemistry and emotional connection. We had very similar personalities that we often wondered, jokingly of course, if either of our parents cheated with the other (perhaps we were related). We looked super cute together and turned heads but I never felt relaxed. I was always on edge, often anxious and he made statements like ” I like keeping you off-balance”. When I dress up sometimes, he would go check me out from behind to make sure I looked right. Before we became exclusive, he emailed me a list of what thinking back were conditions including that we did not need to talk everyday on phone, I would commit to staying physically active and remain the kind and caring person I am etc. I’m ashamed to say this but I agreed explaining how I was very busy anyway and did not need to talk everyday !!! This was all pre-Rori of course. I am convinced that if I met him post-Rori, we would still be together together. I did not know who I was or knew what I wanted so I required nothing of him and accepted whatever little he offered which at the time looked like plenty since my plate was empty…

  33.  #33Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 5:06 am

    Sangelina – Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe you are not done with it yet. But I have one question: are you sure that if you met him “post-Rori” that you would still be together? Or could it be the case that you would have realized sooner that he was giving you crumbs, decided to circular date instead of “pursuing him” and then met someone else who treated you like a queen? Hypothetically, maybe he would have stepped up at treated you like a queen. But it seems to me there is no guarantee he would have done that. Not if it’s something that’s just not in his capacity….

    My point is, it sounds like you are still claiming responsibility for how the relationship with this guy turned out. But the fact is, with or without Rori’s tools, it’s still his responsibility. And if he wasn’t doing it, he wasn’t doing it. And once you realize this, you have more power. That’s really what Rori’s tools give us – the power to observe and respond, rather than “do.”

    Does that make sense?

  34.  #34Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 5:14 am

    I had a dream last night about water. I am always told that water symbolizes emotion in dreams. In this dream, I was going with some people down to this body of water, like a river or lake (or some combination of the two). Someone had just died, and we were all sad, but we were also enjoying the beautiful day. It was me and some co-workers. And I had this idea like I really wanted to go skinny dipping. I knew it was risky, but I wanted to take off all my clothes, and just feel the water all over my skin.

    So when we got to the edge of the water, I started to walk in (still with my clothes on). It was cold. Very cold, crisp, and clear. I could see to the sand on the bottom. So I waded in deeper, and all of a sudden, a current came up and swept me out further, off my feet. I was still floating at the surface, but the current pulled me around the corner, and was swirling me all around. I was out of control, along with all these little bugs on the surface of the water. But I was kind of enjoying it. At the same time, I felt scared that I would not get back to shore. I laughingly yelled for someone to send a boat.

    I actually don’t know how I got to shore. But I do remember standing back in the shallower water, posing with my wet clothes for people to take pictures of me before we headed off to catch the train.

  35.  #35Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 5:20 am

    I kept inviting him places, doing things for the relationship that I pushed the guy out of the boat that he was never fully inside anyway. After 3 months he started pulling away and finally told me that he changed his mind. I tried to pursue harder but it didn’t work. I had no strings attached sex but made me feel worthless the next day. I completely lost respect for me and treated me very poorly. He went back to the other lady.

    We stayed in touch sporadically over the months via email or text. We tried reconnecting after a few years that’s when I discovered Rori.

    I was a different person and he experienced me differently. I saw him for who he was and we did not have sex (though he offered, actually slept over in my house in a separate room) and we never dated again. He did a ton of good things for me and my kids and we are awesome platonic friends today. He is now in a relationship with same lady but he has tremendous respect for me now.

    I’m sure you are wondering where all this is going, I needed to illustrate my growth process, you can see how long it took. I came to Rori to figure out how to hold onto D but realized he was not the best for me despite all we shared.

    I have had 3 relationships since I found this website. 3 outstanding men that I attracted, 1st 2 were practice like advised here just to teach myself what it felt like to be adored and treated well. I circular dated and agreed on each occasion to date one person exclusively and see how it felt. Guy A lasted 4months, I never paid for anything or planned any date. On HIS birthday, he planned an exclusive cruise on the Hudson for him and I. I have always looked to spoil a guy on his birthday, I learnt I did not need to. I ended it because he was avoiding physical intimacy without being willing to talk about it. Few weeks later I met Guy B, perfect gentleman but not my usual type but I wanted to practice the advise from here. We lasted a year and half. He treated me like gold, he is a musician and one day arranged a whole music performance just for me. It ended because we had very different lifestyles. Few months, I met Guy C who I’m 99% sure is the person I will spend the rest of my life with. We’ve been together 2.5 yrs, best relationship I’ve ever had. Not intense chemistry like with D, not as physically attractive as D but he completely accepts me as I am. I want to work out and look good not because I’m required to. No anxiety, No pressure, no demands, no heart aches, no emotional ups and downs, no jealousy, no second guessing, no off-balance no nothing. Just peaceful relaxed knowing that someone thinks I’m the best thing on the planet!
    This is what you need Lovergirl. This is what you deserve and this is what you will get if you follow all the advice everyone has been giving you on this site. I like your writing and your intelligence. You get this but it is so hard to practice when you are addicted to a guy. It’s like a drug but gradually de-tox is possible. S sounds like my D, not because of sexual prowess but because of the intense attraction you feel for him (but which he is unable to reciprocate though it is clear that he likes you very much). Reclaim your respect from him. Don’t make any man the center of your universe when you are not the center of theirs. I’m tearing up writing this as it brings up all the pain and tears I shed for D.
    You can do this my dear! You can do it! Believe in yourself. Your 5 kids are a blessing (I have 3) and there are many men who love kids and who will totally embrace them. Why even consider someone who is using them as an excuse for not being with you.
    I am not too familiar with the swinger lifestyle but are you open to a man who may cheat on you? You are getting jealous and worked up when you are not even in a relationship, can you imagine if you were actually in a relationship and he was still sleeping with other women?
    If I were you, I would try dropping S cold turkey. Extremely hard but probably your best chance for success. You can become friends after you de-fox. Rori 3rd way, won’t work because of your emotional intensity.
    I’m cheering you on and all the women here all wish the best for you. You are loved and it will all work out in the end!

  36.  #36Indigo on May 16, 2015 at 5:22 am

    Azure Blu,

    I really have to say I hope you don’t lean forward with Spirit again – it just feels to me that he should be getting in touch with you and communicating far more, and if he’s not then he either isn’t capable or doesn’t want to. I’m sorry this is difficult and painful for you. ((hugs))

  37.  #37Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Sorry I meant “You can become friends after you de-tox”

    You are right. I’m not sure why I said that because it’s not necessarily true. I meant that if I had started the relationship the way I started all the subsequent ones, I would have inspired him differently and if the relationship took off at all, it’s course would have been different. You are right, still not a guarantee that it would have worked out. It’s a very long story and sharing a brief version hardly tells the whole story. He is indeed a great guy but I was going along with many things he did, trying to act like the “cool girl”. In reality, I wasn’t cool with those actions but I never expressed myself. Several years later, when we became real close no pressure friends, I mentioned some of the things he used to do, he apologized for them and said he didn’t realize I was sensitive. He is so respectful of me now, he thinks I’m out of his league LOL.

    My guy C has a “rougher” personality, not naturally as respectful or well mannered as D but I would not have any of that if he was going to be in my life. I made it clear as soon as any unacceptable behavior surfaced. Example, in the winter, if we were going out, he’d put his coat on and be at the door. I took one look at him the first time incredulously like “how’s my coat going to get on me?” LOL.

    Now he holds up the coat, puts it on, puts on the scarf, opens doors, pulls out chairs etc. I suspect he secretly read books or something but he chose to work on himself. Every aspect of his life, he claims, has gotten better since he met me.

    I can confidently say that every aspect of my life has gotten better since I found this website, bought all the CDs and practiced all I learnt. I can’t thank you enough Rori Raye!

  38.  #38Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 6:12 am

    I’ve been thinking and observing myself. I just want to write this out, because I don’t know how to talk to V about it, or anyone else for that matter. In fact, talking about it doesn’t even seem to help. In any case, I’ve mentioned this issue before, sort of. But apparently it has not been “cleared” for me yet.

    So I’ve noticed that I feel particularly lonely on weekends. I enjoy the time off work. To a point, I enjoy and crave time alone. Too much “on” time or social time will exhaust me. But the problem with weekends is that they are unstructured. And I often don’t make a lot of weekend plans. So when I get to the weekend and I have no plans, I feel lost. Suddenly I feel like everyone has all these interesting things to do and friends to spend time with, and there I am, alone, cleaning my room, or watching TV. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I guess it’s a form of FOMO (fear of missing out ; ) It’s a thing where it seems to me that everyone else is doing exciting things that for some reason I feel are not available to me (like hiking, let’s say, or a barbecue).

    This brings me back to high school, where I often felt the same feeling. And yet, as I remember it, I had lots of friends, and I did often spend time with them on weekends. We would go out and do things, or go to parties at each others’ houses. And I had good friends, too. Nobody was getting into trouble or anything like that. The worst we did was go to the beach at night and smoke cigars. And I loved that.

    And yet, I still remember fearing the weekend, every time it approached. I heard everyone else talking about their plans, or making them, and I would panic that I would be left doing nothing, with no friends and no plans, and I wouldn’t be part of the social circle.

    The thing is, I am an introvert – or maybe an ambivert. I am very good at amusing myself. I love writing, which is pretty solitary. I love art projects where I can immerse myself and it’s as if no one else even exists when I do (though I haven’t done that in a while. Art is tough. I’m going to leave it at that). So I guess it’s kind of odd that I want company so badly when, in theory, I am perfectly happy being alone.

    I am not happy being alone. I don’t want to be left alone. I want to be bugged. I want someone to be bugging me all day and all night to get my attention. Then I could say “no” when I have to. But for the most part, I would feel happy and excited that they want my attention.

    However, I think there is something really even deeper going on here. It’s not just about people wanting my attention. It’s not just about lack of structure. It even isn’t just about spending time with friends. Yes, it is all of those things. But I think those are just the things I can point to in the immediate moment. Something more profound is being triggered, and this is what I am having trouble “clearing.”

    When I was a little kid, my dad would sometimes go on “business trips.” In truth, he probably didn’t go on all that many. I remember maybe two trips – and one in particular. But to me, to my little girl self, it seemed like it was All. The. Time. He went away for maybe a weekend. And it seemed like FOREVER. I was four, five, maybe 6 years old. I think one time he went to New York. Another time, he was on the west coast (I think). There was one I remember for sure where he went to New Orleans. I know because he brought back this cheesy sweatshirt with a cartoon duck on it for my mom. It was too big for her, but I found it so amusing. He also brought these ceramic Carnaval/Mardi Gras masks, one for me, and one for my sister. One of them eventually ended up in my grandparents’ bathroom. The other one broke, I think.

    Anyway, there was some kind of tension about that trip. Or something. I’m not really sure what. I remember my mom telling me, reassuring me that he was, in fact, going to come back. I must have missed him, although I don’t remember the “missing” feeling specifically. I must have been confused. Like when my mom told me that he “made money.” I really didn’t know what that meant. Part of me imagined that he literally spent his days making actual coins or something. To me, that very well could have been true. So when she said he was going on a “business trip,” that was really the only explanation that I got. He had to go. There was nothing I could do but wait for him to come back.

    And, as with the New Orleans trip at least, it seemed to me that he really enjoyed these other places. Going away seemed exciting. He seemed happy when he left and sad when he returned. I think I got the sense that he enjoyed being away from our family – from me, maybe, or from my mom – more than he enjoyed being home. Obviously he hugged me when he came home, and I was ecstatic. But initial joy always gave way to fighting. (With my mom, that is, because that was their relationship, always combative.) And I must have felt that it was at least partly because of me that he didn’t seem to enjoy being at home, even though I also knew that it was my mom he was fighting with. But it was all of a piece.

    So that, I think, is part of my damage. And, I suspect, that that is also why I keep meeting men, like V – and others, because there have been many – who travel for work. And I always find this out after I have made the connection with them.

    For example, there was an R not too long ago. In fact, before I met V this year, I did spend a night with R. But R is a guy who travels for work A LOT. When I originally met him, I thought R was a great guy, with a good job in my city. We texted and flirted a lot. He asked me out. We had some great dates. And then, as we were talking, it came out that he travels basically every week for work, and comes home maybe for a few days, then leaves again. His apartment is basically a pied a terre, where he can keep his stuff, but he doesn’t really live there. (What a waste of a good apartment).

    Then there was AJ, who was the one who hit on me hard core at work. I felt somehow very compelled to give him my number. And I was enjoying flirting with him, too. That is, until it came out that he, too, traveled for work. A lot. That was basically his job. So he asked me out for a drink, but said we had to wait for two weeks until he was back in town. So that gave me a lot of stress and I ended up being antagonistic with him. Outwardly I was saying it was cool. But inwardly it was very not cool. And I had no way to really express this, because what could I do? He had a work schedule, and that’s just how it went. [To be fair, I could have waited two weeks to meet with him, but he insisted on texting in the mean time, and the texts got more and more sexually explicit to the point where I was like, “OK, this isn’t happening.” He was assuming that we were obviously going to sleep together and asking me about doing it in the 8ss and stuff like that. So I was like, “No way, buddy.” But I really think the travel played a big part in my negative thoughts and feelings about him as well.]

    The thing that I’m trying to get to, which I can’t quite access, is my feelings of abandonment. Even when I do feel it, it doesn’t seem to “release.” And my point is that, when my father went away on his “business trips,” he was gone on weekends. So that, even now, is when I feel the most “abandoned.” I feel lost, left behind, like some person or people or some other place is way more exciting that me, where I am. And that’s partly because my father seemed so happy about being in those other places.

    Ironically enough, he once got very – very – angry with my mother for taking a trip with me.

    Let me backstep a second. I think maybe his trips gave me a bit of my own travel bug. Or maybe I just always had the urge to travel. I do remember being about the age when he would go on trips, and feeling fascinated with other countries and wanting to go to Germany. So when I was a teenager, I did have an opportunity to go to Germany, with a singing group that I was in. I worked hard to make that happen. And at the end of the trip, my mom and my Aunt few out to meet me, and we saw relatives in Germany, and we went to England. I had Indian food for the first time in London (ha!). And I was so happy that this trip was happening.

    But then it was also traumatic. I remember being in the apartment of my Aunt’s friends in London, and talking to my dad on the phone. He was so upset that my mom had “betrayed” him by going to Europe without him that he was threatening to kill himself. I threw the phone across the room and cried. Not only was he punishing my mom for doing something independent, he was punishing me by threatening his own life – to me.

    My father was so upset by this trip that he could not stop talking about it for months. He started having chest pains and ended up taking antidepressants for his moods. But he continued to feel betrayed and hurt. In the car, he would rant to me about how my mother had basically cheated on him by going to Germany and England with my Aunt and me. It was way off base. And it was the kind of thing that, even if he thought that, he should not have been sharing with his daughter. And whether directly or indirectly, he made me feel responsible, because of course, it was my trip. It wasn’t like my mom had come up with the idea on her own. It was something that I was doing for me, that I wanted to do. And I guess it made me feel like my choices and my decisions and my desires had had a big negative impact on my family. In fact, by him telling me that, he was basically implying that I personally had caused the problems between him and my mom. When the only real problem was that he was not able to let us travel without feeling hurt and abandoned himself.

    There is, I guess, a huge amount of irony here, being that he was the one who would travel and leave us for his “business trips” as kids. I have a lot to say about my mom and how she’s affected me. But I can say this as well: when he left, she Never made a big deal of it. Not that I can remember. If anything, I think she probably did feel abandoned by him, and like he left her to take care of us kids all alone while he went on business. But she didn’t really share that with us. I just seem to remember that that’s when they fought about when my dad got home. To us, she was reassuring – “Yes, he’ll be home.” She never claimed that my father was betraying her or cheating on her.

    But….I think I have said this before….I do kind of wonder. I’ve wondered in the past if my father did cheat on my mom while he was away. Possibly not.

    But maybe my feelings of abandonment are like what my dad felt when my mom went away. He made up this whole story about how, even though she had not physically cheated on him with another man, it was basically the same thing, just by her going away. When I was there the whole time. Really all it was was about a 10-day vacation. People do these things all the time, with and without their partners.

    I guess he was just too immature to say that he really wanted to go, too. I bet that he did. I bet he felt left out. But I’m not sure that he ever really expressed that. Hm….

    I am running on and on. And I am going to keep writing because I really want to root this out for myself.

    Fast forward to me, today.

    I’ve met V. When I met him, I assumed that he had just moved to Boston and that he was here to stay. He tells me that he’s making up his mind. Then he eventually tells me that he has to go back to India – for up to five months. Or even longer. Who knows. Because it’s India and the bureaucracy there is slow and inscrutable. There are many unknowns.

    All I Know is, I don’t want him to leave. But, as he keeps reminding me, there is nothing even he can do about it. He has to go. It’s illegal for him to stay without the visa. And once he is in India, it’s illegal for him to leave before they make it, because they will have his passport. And then, after he gets home, he finds out his mother has been sick, but his parents didn’t tell him. And also when he’s there he starts having to work longer and longer hours. On weekends, he goes to see his parents. At first, he’ll make calls to me after he gets home from their house. But a few weeks ago, right before my birthday, the calls stopped. He no longer even texts me when he gets home to his apartment. And when I tell him that I really need to speak with him on weekends because that is when I feel the most lonely and want to spend time with him, he reminds me that he’s ‘very busy’ with his parents, and also that the internet is not good and sometimes it goes out completely because they just lose electricity. So he keeps pointing to all these external factors that make it “impossible” for him to call me or get in touch with me. And they very well may be true.

    But I am afraid.

    I cannot name this fear. All I know is that it is deep and powerful. And as I sit here, thinking about his fear, thinking about him in India, I can feel it washing over me and through me. I feel my tears come up, and my throat get tight and hot. I feel fear. I’m afraid I’ll lose him. I’m afraid that India will claim him. I met him. I’ve liked him. I loved having him here. Of all the people I have ever met or dated, and including even my best friends and family, I’ve never met anyone that I could spend so much time with and not feel bad. I could spend days with him and not get tired of his company. And yet, in the face of that, he has to leave.

    I feel…bereft. I feel like I just found something, and then it gets taken away, and there is literally nothing I can do except wait. I know that I told him I would wait for him. I still want to. And I also want him home. If home is me, I want him here. That’s what I want.

    And I guess my fear is that, for him, home is somewhere else. I can’t change what’s going on with his family. I can’t make his office ask him to work less. And I can’t tell the stupid government electric company in India not to shut of the power grid to do work because, darnit, this guy needs to talk to me, and I need to hear from him.

    And somehow….somehow he was able to make a quick phone call to his parents every single day from America. He gets up early for conference calls from work. Yet here I am, on pins and needles, feeling lonely and left behind. I just want to be spoken to. I want to be reminded that he’s there and that he wants to come home. I want him to come home.

    And I’m crying.

    I know it’s stupid to pine away. But I’m not pining. What it feels like is feeing the full weight and the capacity of missing him. I think…what I’m feeling is the sense of the importance he has to me. As much as I would like to deny it – I don’t want any guy to be so important to me – but….he kind of is. I didn’t exactly decide this. He just came to be that. And it’s so hard to wait.

    Every weekend, I just feel his absence so much more. During the week, I can distract myself. But on the weekends, he is really “gone.” In fact, he is twice gone. Not only is he gone in India, where he is all the time, but he’s gone to where his parents live in a small village, where he cannot even contact me, according to him, except for the odd text here and there.

    Maybe I am punishing him for my own feelings. Maybe dating other people is a way for me to fill in the gaps. And maybe that’s perfectly legit. I can do that. I feel no guilt, because I do get to take care of me. But also…I just miss him like crazy.

    And I wish that telling him how much I miss him, and him telling me how much he misses me would lead to more phone calls and video chats. But so far, it hasn’t worked out that way.

    I’m not sure if there is something else that I need to express to him that I haven’t yet. For now, to you, to Siren island, I’ll just confess that, as much as I’m willing to circular date, to keep my “vibe up,” I miss him. I miss him like crazy and I just want him to come home. That’s all a I want.

    Over and out.

  39.  #39Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Sangelina – that is super cool! It’s great when the stuff really works! : )

  40.  #40Femininewoman on May 16, 2015 at 6:52 am

    Oh Sangelina thanks for sharing great success and lovely story of your life. It is always a pleasure to read such stories. Just a pity more Rori successes don’t hang around long enough to share.

  41.  #41Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 7:29 am

    You ladies don’t have to read my long thing. That was mostly for me.

    I feel like a half a success story. On the one hand, I’m doing a lot of good things. It’s possible that I’m doing better than I think I am. On the other hand, I still struggle with feeling like I’m either taking on the full weight of the relationship, or that I’m leaning back so far that I just pull myself out of it completely and break the connection. Instinctively, I know that where real relationship takes place is in the middle ground. It’s been really hard for me to get there with no real model that’s been close to me, as well as a lot of fears of experiencing the bad things about relationship that *were* close to me.

    And I also think about this: when something another person does is bothering us, then that’s a good cue to look inside ourselves and see if there is something about us in that same area that needs work.

    For example, I feel that it’s frustrating to me that V doesn’t “take responsibility” for his actions and choices, vis-a-vis how and how often he communicates to me. So the way I’d see that in terms of myself, without blaming me for his actions is, Is there some way in which I do not communicate fully? Do I hold back? Do I not think about the other person’s feelings? And do I not fully take responsibility for my actions in some way? Am I always looking for an external scapegoat?

    Right now, with M, my ex, I’m running into something that was a major deciding factor in why we broke up. Interestingly enough, we’ve been able to connect and have a certain amount of intimacy, through sharing deep parts of ourselves (or at least himself) through text recently. But then when he tried to make plans with me, it’s now falling apart. He admitted that he overcommits himself and then he feels bad for not showing up. So then – I now feel as if I fell into a trap. Although it’s not really a trap for me so much as it is for him. I need to be careful not to fall into it with him.

    I told M that if I was going to reciprocate, and share intimate things about myself, I would need to do that in person. He then suggested that we meet up, and it sounded like he was so gung-ho, he would do it right away (i.e. yesterday). I told him I was free on Sunday. He said sure. It later turned out that he had already made plans with friends on Sunday, and said that he “didn’t want to make promises,” but the plans might be cancelled. I said that was fine, and he said that he would confirm late last night or this morning.

    Well, he didn’t contact me at all last night, and so far he hasn’t this morning.

    I suspect that he is afraid that if he tells me he is doing something else, that I’ll feel disappointed. However, I don’t anticipate that I’ll feel that way. The thing that we were going to do together was really for him, to support him. I don’t need it. I’ll be just fine without it. And support him going out with his friends. I don’t even really need him to confirm, I guess. I can do my own thing without him. I just see him kind of struggling and flailing with this planning thing. He sucks at it. He knows he sucks at it. And yet, I suppose if he does do something, it will be the thing with his other friends.

    What really bothers me, as a general rule, is that a lot of times (not all the time, but it seems like a lot of times), my friends don’t seem to feel obligated to keep their dates and appointments with me. My friends often make commitments to spend time with me, and then cancel at the last minute, and sometimes without rescheduling. Or we will make a date, and then push it up and up and up, until I just don’t feel like rescheduling anymore. I try my best to be patient. I don’t want to yell and get angry at them, but in my heart I do feel angry. I feel that they are not treating me well as friends, and that they are just being not decent as people. But in reality by not “rocking the boat” and getting upset, I’m just letting them get away with it. And yet, in the rare occasion that I do get upset and let someone know that I feel disappointed in them for not keeping their appointment with me, I more often than not end up losing that relationship. The person then is angry with me for being angry. They say that I should not act that way, and then I feel like the jerk. When they were the person who didn’t show up for me in the first place.

    Gah!! Why are people so frustrating????

    And why do I feel like a complete failure as a human being who can’t communicate what is in my heart for sh*t, no matter how hard I “try” to do that. I’ve been working on this for years. I feel like I “should” have made some progress and be better at this now. And yet, all my relationships seem to fall apart at the drop of a hat.

    Well, ok, not all. I suppose it would be good to focus on what’s good, and the people who are still around, who do keep their commitments. And I guess the only thing I can do, rather than worry about them, is to focus on me being the kind of person who follows through and keeps my commitments. I guess that would really be the thing.

    Thanks for listening. Sorry I’m writing so much today! So much to process!!!

  42.  #42Azure Blu on May 16, 2015 at 7:43 am

    Indigo and Linda,
    Thank you for your warm and caring words…

    All the connection and moving toward me – I have felt from Spirit
    Is continually undone by his pattern of disconnect over the past 2 months-

    Just like others have mentioned – It keeps me from feeling calm, grounded, safe and adored…
    It keeps me continually off balance,,,

    off balance and unloved is the feeling from my childhood from my family-

    I have worked and worked over the years to change ALLL that chaos… and slowly I have been able to peel back the layers…
    It just seems UNBELIEVABLE That I have MORE layers on this topic of craving being “off balance”…

    I soooo want to let go of Spirit….
    I went out last night with my sister and her family…
    Such lovely people – She has such a great relationship with her husband of 23 years…
    of course they have their ups and downs…
    But very loving!!

    But cried all the way home because this didn’t work with Spirit!! :-((

    I don’t want to lean forward… I hope I don’t
    He’s made his stand… I can hear it loud and clear…

    He doesn’t want/know how to have
    the same kind of relationship I want…

    I will move on… thank him (in my heart) for the things I’ve learned…
    Thank you for all your loving support

  43.  #43Indigo on May 16, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Tereana 38,

    I just wanted to say that I’m impressed by your processing, and you write really well.

    I so identify with what you’ve expressed here. My parents divorced when I was little so my dad was physically gone most of the time – he liked to travel as well, both for work and holiday, and for a while (when I was still little) he lived overseas for a year and a half. He wrote letters but I remember feeling this ache, like something was missing. Then my brother, who was the closest person in the world to me, died when I was in my late teens. I think I carry this missing, longing feeling around with me always. It’s a difficult one to heal. I’ve touched on it so many times in my subsequent relationships, and each time I do, it’s sore. I touch on it frequently in my relationship with D, and although it doesn’t grip me the way it once did, the way it did when I was a little girl, it does fill me with a low level fear. I remember so vividly the feeling of relief I felt as a child when my mom or dad would come back after being away. They both felt like they were away a lot. To this day I can’t stand someone I love to be away, it makes me sad and long and pine. Actually I think it’s the uncertainty rather than the physical distance which is so difficult to bear.

    Like you said with V, you don’t know when he will call you or text you again. D had to work today, and even though he said he would get in touch with me tomorrow, it still awakens those feelings, like freefalling. Like when you were a little girl and you didn’t know when your parents were coming back, because a week felt like a year.

    I honestly don’t know. The weekends feel very lonely to me too. I too am grateful for the rest from work, and for being able to sleep in and all the rest, but there’s something about the work day which gives structure and routine to my day. On the weekend other people seem to be busy with activities that they don’t include me in, or maybe I wouldn’t want to be included. I tend to feel like an alien around a lot of other people. Sometimes I feel like I can only truly be fulfilled in closeness with someone else. And it has to be closeness – a superficial friendship won’t do.

    Anyway, I feel you sister siren, and it hurts.

  44.  #44Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Thanks Femininewoman, you’ve been loyal on this site and your posts have helped me a lot through the years. I wish you as much happiness of your own as you invest so much time in helping others achieve theirs!

  45.  #45Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 8:52 am


    Mine is a success story but it look a lot of tears and pain and hard work. I have asked myself similar questions along the way, always self reflecting and sometimes thinking the worst. It’s probably part of the growth process. I did spend a lot of time by myself also and did feel lonely sometimes but I’ve come to embrace it now and found ways to keep myself busy but in and out of the house. Clarity will come…and your breakthrough will come.

    I recall my earlier days on this site, I often heard people say the right relationship is easy. I had never experienced not being apprehensive sometimes and wondering sometimes and making things happen sometimes. Now, I’m a believer. When it requires too much energy or thought processes, it might not be the right relationship.

  46.  #46Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 8:53 am


  47.  #47Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 9:13 am


    Thank you for your heartfelt messages and telling your story. I’m so glad you have found a happy ending!

    I’m in such a state of confusion about S right now. I love him so much, I really do. One day I think I am going to end it and the next day I feel like there is no way I can do that.

    From some of the things I have said, it probably sounds like a sexual addiction, but really I don’t think so. I know some guys I would consider technically better in bed than he is (though he’s great, its more of an emotional thing) and some that are better looking, though none that I would be in a relationship with.

    It may sound like I lean forward all the time, but really I feel a lot of the time he is the one seeking me out. Its not that he doesn’t like kids either, you can tell he would be great with them, he’s just afraid of meeting mine and of getting attached because he thinks I have too many.

    Really, right now, S is my best friend. We talk about virtually everything. Getting rid of him seems like doing myself a complete disservice. Then I’m out there on my own, with nothing and no one that I really feel close to and the chances of ever finding that again seem slim. I don’t feel ready for that.

  48.  #48Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Lovely reading the blog and catching up on everybody’s stories.

    Azure – Yay, to leaning back! I am trying that at the mo, and I know it is sooo difficult. I try imagining myself sitting on my hands so I physically can’t contact D.

    I’ve been thinking about him a lot lately. Yesterday, I came to the sad realisation that he was possibly only with me out of a sense of duty and to stop himself from feeling like the “bad guy” or that he had just used me for something…

    A couple of times when we talked about breaking up I would breakdown and confess that I had a fear I was cursed and would never meet anybody. This is true, I do feel like this – but I should never have shared this truth with D. It probably made him scared to leave me, or to know how to do the right thing.

    Also, whenever he would call me he would sound so happy when I said I was happy and very busy doing stuff. It was almost like he sounded relieved – it would really freak me out!

    Well, it’s been a week (only a WEEK!) of no contact and it’s been very hard. Especially as this week I would have really loved a cuddle and a nice warm chest to cuddle up to. (Arggh, I feel nervous writing that…)

    Work has been especially hard this week. I had a MASSIVE to do with a female co-working. She is VERY highly strung, intense, and alpha. EVERYTHING is about her! She dominates everything. Anyway, I had to have a meeting with her and some other members of my group at the beginning of the week. I ended up walking out half-way through because I wasn’t getting a look-in or a word-in edgeways even though the main purpose of the meeting was to define the work I needed to do. Everyone in the meeting took offence to me walking off and I looked like the bad guy.

    Then the next day she was emailing me, and emailing me and copying everyone else in and basically beating me up over the emails. In the end I burst into tears and literally spent the whole day crying and trying to discuss with people. Everyone I spoke to including the BA and the Project manager said there was nothing they could do and that I should talk to her.

    In the end I just put my head down and got on with work. It felt like I was talking into thin air. I feeling like I am going mad inside – I don’t handle bullying well. I know I am sensitive and that doesn’t help, but I really would like to understand my feelings a bit more around this….

    I started to feel like everyone was ganging up on me, and that maybe I deserved it. I have tried to look at it from the point of view of “don’t take it personally” BUT I just can’t do that!!!! Argh!! I couldn’t sleep the other night because of it, and have been a wreck all week…

    I feel like she has put me in my place and made me feel like a small child and I feel so humiliated and down trodden by this.

  49.  #49Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:19 am

    To add, I think she is a very STRONG character who is always joking that she likes to bully people and get her own way like it’s something she is really proud of. I know she thinks I am weak and lack confidence so it’s the perfect opportunity for her to show-off around me and paint a bad picture of me to my co-workers.

    She doesn’t like working with me for some reason. I feel like she plays people off against me too. She says things like “Well if you won’t do it I’ll get so and so to do it”. And I know that everyone feels the same as me but to her face they are all really nice, they never back me up they always back down and do what she wants and I am seen as the bad guy. I just feel bullied and I feel that if I say black she will say white. It is horrible…

  50.  #50Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Tereana – 38 –

    Thank you so much for sharing your story! It is truly beautiful and moving for me to read.

    I wonder if this will be a breakthrough for you. It feels like a flower bud opening up in the springtime and letting the beautiful rays of the sun in…

  51.  #51Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Victoria 16 & 18-

    Thanks. I do need to focus more on me, though I find it hard to do. I’m aiming for that.

    You are right that seeing him look for “the One” would feel like torture. It is in the times where he has said he needed to do that, that I pulled away, because I couldn’t handle it.

    What seems to happen though, is that he just isn’t satisfied with anyone he meets. Not yet. He has commented before that having me around keeps him from being *motivated* to look for someone to spend his life with. He feels he *should* be doing that but just doesn’t have the interest because he is caught up in ME.

    That is both flattering and upsetting at the same time. It leaves me so CONFUSED. I WANT him to want to be with ME and on one hand he seems to really want to, but on the other he has logically convinced himself that he can’t be.

    I just…I don’t know. I don’t know if there is any possibility of it ever changing, despite what he says. Like in a recent text he sent to me, he said I was “dead wrong” about not being special to him. He said “you ARE special to me…you are probably the woman I truly should be with if I just let myself”.

    Some might say he is stringing me along, and maybe he is, but I don’t feel its intentional. It’s just agonizing to me.

    I’ve never met anyone in my life that I FEEL so right with on so many levels. I feel like I can really talk to him and that’s been my dream of what I have wanted in a man my entire life. I’ve never found that with anyone else. He gets my humor, he seems to really understand me in ways that other men just don’t. With them there seems to be this huge communication barrier.

    Tomorrow is his birthday. I haven’t a clue what I am going to do. Probably nothing. I will tell him Happy Birthday, unless he invites me over and then what? I have no plans to get him a present or make him anything, though I feel bad because for my birthday last summer he took me out to eat. I don’t have $$ to take him out right now anyway, but it would feel weird.

  52.  #52Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Lovergirl –

    Stay strong!! You may find in time that S just slips away from you. I hope this happens to me with D, or that he steps up and claims me, one way or another!

    I think we can all move into patterns of behaviour and not want to change them because they feel like comfortable slippers. But deep down we want more and there is a yearning there..

  53.  #53Labbit on May 16, 2015 at 9:35 am

    42 – Aww, Azure, this breaks my heart a little! You did everything you WANTED to do. You wanted to give yourself a chance to see how things would unfold with Spirit. You wanted to practice leaning back and observe the results it would bring. I know you see things right now as not working out…but I see so many wonderful things that have happened for you! If nothing else, I believe your next relationship is going to be all the more smooth and wonderful for everything you’ve learned.

    If you are giving yourself a hard time or feeling like you’ve done something wrong or are not enough to have a man’s love because of the way things have seemingly worked out with Spirit, forget all that. You are lovable just because you’re a woman!!! You are already what he wants…you don’t need to do anything to earn him or change him.

    I wish I could express this better, but the one thing I know for sure is that once you find a man who treats you well, who makes you the center of his world, who is emotionally mature and can handle relationship…you will wonder why you ever spent so much time pining after men who cannot give you these things. You’re hormonally attached to Spirit…and it’s perfectly normal and expected to feel upset and disappointed right now.

    But the love of your life is waiting for you out there, waiting for you appear so he can come find you. There’s no reason to mourn something that you may in fact be glad is over. I see such great things ahead of you, I hope that you are able to sort through any pain you feel quickly and shift into a fun mindset!!! That is what I wish for you.

  54.  #54Labbit on May 16, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Sangelina — To echo Femininewoman, I’m so glad you’ve shared your story here. I found it thrilling to read and it touched me as you recounted your struggles and eventual success!! Thank you so much Siren for being so open with us, for Lovergirl and really it feels great to me too.

    I am so with FW that I wish more success stories were shared here, that more past Sirens would come back and tell about how GREAT things are in their love and relationship lives. As much as I love digging into the deep questions and dealing with tough scenarios…it’s the other side of the tunnel that keeps me going.

  55.  #55Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Rori, this post is fantastic! I’m going to read it, re-read it, and read it again! Lol… hope it goes in!

  56.  #56Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Labbit 54 –

    I have to say reading about all our struggles really helps me. I find it so easy to give other sirens advice but do the total opposite in my own life.

    I think – my relationship is “different”, is “special”…

    But you ladies keep me grounded, thank goodness! :0

    Success stories may as well be made up fairytales to me… I can’t ever, ever imagine the scenario…

    I DO think something in me is very broken. I often think I may be a lesbian just because I feel so much more comfortable around women, and trust them. I don’t feel attracted but I don’t have the fear or butterflies in my stomach.

    With men I am never sure, they seem such hard work. I was watching a tv programme earlier with some couples in it. You could see the dynamics clear as day… The men seem like children, desperately wanting security from a woman. Men always seem to want sex so much more than women and place a huge amount of emphasis on it. All this scares me about men. I don’t think I can live up to all that – and I wouldn’t have to with a woman!

    Women are reliable. Men… meh, maybe less so…

    If a woman was to break up with me she would do it so kind and gently, I just probably wouldn’t get hurt at all…..

    Oh, sometimes I so wish I was a man… Women are so much nicer than men… sob…

    But I’m not a man, I’m a woman, and I am attracted to men…

    Argh… I dunno…

  57.  #57Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 10:44 am


    Is the best way to deal with bullying to get on with your own life?

    I feel completely overwhelmed by this female colleague bullying me, and have NOT been able to get it off my mind all week. Even when I am at home I am thinking about it.

    I am thinking why can’t I DEAL with it? What is wrong with me. I feel obsessed, and I am obsessing over and over in my head. This doesn’t seem to happen to other people… where am I going wrong?

    I feel so panicked, and stressed….

  58.  #58Sophie on May 16, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Oh Rori I love this post. It makes it feel so simple! I am, as ever, doing my best (boy energy) to make the most of my circumstances. I am having my days feeling joyful and satisfied, like yesterday when I got out and explored and some days when I’ve felt satisfied with work that I’ve done, then other days where I feel very grumpy and bad tempered and moody (today for instance).

    Maybe, I like you Indigo and Tereana feel a bit meh at the weekends. I felt like this before I went away and now I feel like it again. It’s because none of the areas of my life are together and once again, I’m living in isolation from my friends, and potential social life, and don’t have the money to help myself much. There are only so many books, baths, films, walks etc pieces of work one can do without feeling meh and I prefer the cerebral work to be done in the week – there;s something that energises me for it.

    That said my sleep is terrible and I can’t get warm. I just feel cold all the time. I might go for a sunbed tomorrow. That helped me feel better the week before.The feeling cold puts me off going out for the exercise endorphins too, as does the lack of sleep.

    I joined two of the free dating agencies and I am feeling despondent about them too. I feel maybe ‘obligated’ to do it. I don’t know but it’s a lot of looking outside myself for something to ‘make me feel better’, though at the same time a genuine interest in whether there is a man out there with whom I can experience attraction, or fun…that would feel nice.

    I feel grumpy that I feel a bit invested in my friend who is now an online friend and I would so love to indulge in a fantasy relationship (a real one really, perhaps, although who knows) But I feel cross with myself for finding him interesting and inspiring and appealing and for intruding into my thoughts. I want to banish him from my head ha

    So, I was using the sites to attempt to do that and maybe it will, but still, I’m not detached and it’s because I feel bored and cold and dissatisfied. Like everything, this has to be a temporary state and something has to shift so that I actually have a life again, rather than the attempt at hanging in there waiting for something to shift, which is what my current landscape feels like.

    I need professional help with my health I think, but I don’t have the money for it..I have other options probably, I just feel resistant toward considering them.

    Azure I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling and I do identify with that horrible frustration to tears of it feeling like there is always another layer and another layer and never the grand prize…

    I will keep on for a little while with the dating websites but feel the need to be very careful not to let it distract me from my real aims of building myself and my life up big, or boring me to tears.

    Big love to you all xxx

  59.  #59Sophie on May 16, 2015 at 11:02 am

    Waterfall – I feel appalled on your behalf that you are experiencing this with this woman. I have been in similarish situations. I believe in can happen, ironically, when that person feels threatened by you. In my first situation I was very young and the other woman was a lot older but she would belittle me in front of other’s in meetings although it was my area of expertise. In that situation I wasn’t invested so much (financially or anything) so I was able to distance myself a bit…I sacrificed I guess at her gain but ultimately, I ended up with friends and she didn’t..I believe she must have been a very unhappy and insecure woman.

    In the second instance, I had a co-worker who was an alpha male, who was my equal in role, but we disagreed on most everything and it felt unbearable attempting compromise. I suggested we leave the office environment and go for a coffee so that we were somewhere non-work related and we could ‘be people’. Could that be a possibility? Your description of how her behaviour made you feel are very clear from what you say. Are you able to express them to her, and if she’s alpha ask her what she thinks? Try Rori communication for a win-win…? I guess, it would be a matter of asking her when would be a good time for her and being quite forthright in your desire to try to resolve how the issue had made you feel?

  60.  #60Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 11:11 am

    Sophie –

    Hugs to you! Your life always sounds awesome with all your travelling etc…

  61.  #61Indigo on May 16, 2015 at 11:18 am


    About your co-worker… I had this show up in my working life a few times, and it kept showing up until I developed the inner muscle to deal with it. Just saying, the Universe has a way of keeping on beating you over the head with the same lesson until you learn it. For me personally, as a sensitive person, the way I deal with bullies is never to get emotional in front of them – of course you can feel your emotions, but what I mean is to be in control of them. Bullies feel out of control and are afraid of their own emotions, and will try to turn an emotional display against you, because they fear it in themselves. The best way is really to develop the inner strength to be able to speak your truth calmly and clearly. Walking out is a great tool with bullies! I have done it on more than one occasion. If you can somehow develop the emotional stamina to let a bully “do their worst” so to speak but you don’t fall to pieces because you have your own back, they will lose their power. Good luck 🙂

  62.  #62Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Sophie 59 –

    Thank you so much for your response!

    I would like to have the courage to speak to her about it. I feel quite scared, and shy around her. She has this habit of turning everything into a joke and getting completely sidetracked. Then she would go off on a tangent about how hard her life is and how no-one understands all the pressure she is under.

    I have been there a lot for her in the past.

    In all honesty, I may be wrong, but I don’t think she means it. She sort of can’t help herself really…

    I think also I feel upset because I’m panicked and stressed that by defending myself I have offended her – if that makes sense?! I feel like I look like the bad guy and everyone is shaking their heads at me and how awful I am…


    But thanks for your input anyway!

    Also, I think from the outside looking in your life sounds pretty awesome! All your travel and adventure and a whole new life ahead of you..:)

  63.  #63Indigo on May 16, 2015 at 11:24 am


    I also used to obsess over these bullying situations endlessly, until I took my fear by the reins and faced up to my bully and spoke my truth calmly and clearly. Owning your personal power and not feeling like a victim is the most amazing feeling! I clearly remember saying to one very bullying woman “I won’t be spoken to like that” and then leaving and going back to my desk. She didn’t speak to me for weeks she was so taken aback, but when she finally did, it was rather sweetly.

  64.  #64Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 11:24 am

    Indigo – 61

    Ah, Indigo I feel we are so similar in that way…
    I did walk out of the meeting and that’s what got me into trouble…. with EVERYBODY…It was like everyone was talking about me and I felt awful.

    Yet, at work, I am the GOOD guy. Or I THOUGHT I was… I am confused a bit…

    Hmm… and she… well, she get’s everyone’s back’s up as far as I can tell… BUT enormously get’s away with it…

  65.  #65Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Indigo – 63

    That is awesome!! Good for you…!!!!

  66.  #66Waterfall on May 16, 2015 at 11:54 am


    Re: the weekend I too feel like this, but over the last couple of years I’ve joined many groups. Meetup.com is a great place to start.

    I started with things like learning to play the guitar, walking, music appreciation, running, even a local singing group.

    Even in my local area I would see signs for all sorts of groups and activities and, as I am fairly shy, I really forced myself to go along to these things.

    Some of the groups I have made friends with, some I just went to for a short while. I think you have to try a few things. I also ended up dragging friends along and they have met friends and girlfriends too..

    I am sadly still single though. And also at the moment I have lost my interest in my social groups – which slightly scares me…

    Also, I founds friends locally and would send round emails to get us all together. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I try and take the stance that you can only grab life while you can. My friends may move away, people move on, life never stays the same and at the moment I feel like I’m going through a bit of a dip myself and I feel a tightness in my stomach just thinking about going back to those days of loneliness. Maybe it’s ending things with D that are bringing things to the surface for me..

    BUT over the past 6 or so years I’ve really expanded my social circle and interests AND it’s been a BLAST!

    I realised, how inadvertently I was always saying No to life. If someone offered me a way of changing my life I just said “No”. And one day I heard myself doing it!! AND after that I tried always to say Yes to everything!!

    Anyway, I am certainly not there yet, and as I say for the last year or so I’ve been going through a dip…. but I will report back!

  67.  #67Sophie on May 16, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    Waterfall – I agree with Indigo on both parts: that we tend to face the same thing over and over until we change our way of dealing with it and also, that firm non-emotional boundaries are the way forward. Though, I personally know how difficult they are to do and tend to feel very emotional and try to gather allies actually to validate me because I feel afraid (if I’m being really honest). I also know the feeling of empowerment Indigo is speaking of, it feels great.

    It is highly possible that your colleagues are feeling respect for you, rather than anything negative, or are just unsure how to handle the dynamic so are burying their heads in the sand. That then goes back to the putting in consistent boundaries.

    I feel great respect for you that you did that – got yourself up, and out there, and created that life for yourself. I do that for myself little by little too if I feel the need too – I did go exploring yesterday and it felt lovely – today i’m just being a debbie downer … (it feels interesting it could well be the weekend thing..ah well, this too shall pass).

    It’s funny isn’t it, yes perceivably there are lots of very positive aspects in my life and lots of exciting times ahead…I just feel minor discomforts so acutely like being too cold, and giving someone too much energetic thought feel majorly uncomfortable, and infuriating (the man thing…that I know is just because I feel bored)…I drive myself potty!

  68.  #68Millie on May 16, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    One of my coworkers got married yesterday. They met on tinder three months ago. Last night we all celebrated with them, watched their wedding video. I feared up hearing their vows… I so want that with someone, to be a partner through every stage of life. And it made feel sad because I had met my guy at the same time my coworker did and look how I ended up… Look where we ended up. I saw him again on my way home, just going my normal route. He must have had the day off because he wasn’t coming from the direction of work. This time I didn’t shake, I didn’t feel angry, I don’t even know what I feel really… Kind of like— why??? Why am I seeing him in passing so much…. But it doesn’t seem he notices me. His head was down looking at his phone likely. Or maybe he saw me and out his head down I don’t know.

    Then at the party when I was talking to everyone at least three people told me “they thought I hated them.” I was so astonished– why they would get that impression!!! That I’m “hard to read” and it just me tear up— I just suddenly didn’t feel like a friendly, warm person. Am I that cold??? Of course I love who I work with. Then it made me wonder if I had been acting that way with M in some form. If was just heartbreaking to hear that’s how people felt around me. I told them no— I’m just unhappy personally, not with everyone else.

  69.  #69Millie on May 16, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    I can’t stop thinking about how men “do what they want” and how my guy chose not to be with me anymore. He doesn’t want me, he doesn’t want to be around me, he doesn’t want to talk to me, he is so repulsed by me that he felt he had to walk away. I can’t stop thinking about how horrible he must have felt for this to happen….

    I know I have to stop thinking about it– but I guess this is my way of punishing myself for my own bad behavior in the relationship. It’s like– I won’t allow myself to feel good. I’m punishing myself for losing him. Even though I know it’s not 100% my fault and we have all talked about this already. It’s been established, but for some reason I am unable to forgive myself. I just feel like a failure.

    Anyway, I have to start choosing myself. Start living and wanting to do things again. All I really want to do is lay around but I cant let myself resign to a state of atrophy. I can’t let those negative feelings win… Sometimes it feels good to give in to them, to stop fighting them, to just be in this white space of nothingness– not moving, not thinking, not trying. Just existing. But I think about Labbits friend who turned her life around and won. I need to stop mulling and do that! Get I to my masculine energy and take care of myself— why is that so hard?? Why is it hard for us not to punish ourselves? Why is it hard for us to do what makes the most sense for survival? Why do we choose self sabotage instead of life? I don’t know…..

  70.  #70Kim on May 16, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    I can only second what Sangelina says up there….once we have this, we lose interest in a man faster than we can say his name (even a short one lol) if he
    a) doesn’t give us the time of day/ crumbs
    b) it is clear that he doesn’t want the same relationship as we want.
    Whether that is expressing that he has no interest in being our forever man, and sorry lovergirl, but to me everything your guy does expresses just this.
    Or whether it is demanding exclusivity and then not even wanting to speak to us weeks on end – like Azure, your Spirit.
    I have given these types of men airtime before and chased them and leant forward just to see what happens, experiment, because I couldn’t help myself, because I thought it was ‘love’.
    Ladies, that’s not love..love is a guy who is 100% in, who is there when you look/feel your worst, who WANTS to speak to you every- or at least every other day….who would go spare if he knew you dated other men…who would not tell you about women he dates or sleeps with because if he was all in and wanted to make you happy he would be with you.
    You know this and you’ve got this.
    This is why we are here.
    This man exists, he may not be the most exciting or best looking man in the Universe but he wants to make you happy. By clinging onto these guys, you can’t find him. That much I do know. Been there.
    Thing is, we all have to learn that for ourselves and we all have to be very very low and resigned that we won’t sell ourselves short again….I believe everyone has their own timeline for this.

  71.  #71Kim on May 16, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    I don’t have the most exciting man…I don’t have an ambitious man…and we do bump heads…and I would have sent him to the moon a long time ago, BUT I was not able to shake him off. He is always there for me.
    I am sick this weekend and he has been handing me the tissues, even though I encouraged him to go out with his friends and do his own thing. He is right now running to walgreens the second time today to get me stuff….Mr ‘I can’t go to sleep before midnight’ laid down next to me at 9pm yesterday lol – and fell asleep haha!
    Last week, I had family in town. They came to stay in a hotel as my studio does not fit a family plus us, and I felt a little guilty and spoke about cooking something..he decided to take us all out to a waterfront restaurant, 4 of my family and me, and he wanted to pay for it all…it was a lovely gesture, and he was so sweet with the kids and so patient, it made my heart melt. I know so many me. Who would have made an excuse not to rush home from work two nights in a row to spend with my family and get attacked by little kids and pay for it all as well lol.
    This is what we deserve and no less.
    And I don’t think this is an exception, I think there are men like this out there waiting to give this and their heart to us if we let then and don’t get stuck on those exciting drama filled guys who are too wrapped up in themselves to be able to do relationship.
    I don’t kniw if this is my forever man, but I know one thing, which is that I can’t go back to pining over imaginary relationships and hot/cold men ever again, that switch has flicked. Hopefully anyway….

  72.  #72Dominique on May 16, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    Millie – Maybe this will help –



  73.  #73Dominique on May 16, 2015 at 5:42 pm

  74.  #74Dominique on May 16, 2015 at 5:43 pm

  75.  #75Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    Thanks labbit and Kim for your comments.
    I also wish more past sirens especially those who got married would share their stories.

    Please don’t take this the wrong way but there’s often discussion on this site regarding the possibility of loving someone who doesn’t love us. Can we love someone who doesn’t love us? What do you think?
    I wonder what other sirens think?

  76.  #76Femininewoman on May 16, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    Really, it is not love, It is an addiction. When we get to the place where we can see and hear this, we see very clearly.

  77.  #77Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    I feel a little offended when people assume S doesn’t love me. I actually believe that he does. Maybe not *enough* for a long term commitment, but I do feel loved by him in many ways. After a year, and with as much time as we have spent together, it would be nuts if he felt nothing for me. I know he does.

  78.  #78Millie on May 16, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    Thank you Dominique— these articles are great!! And very helpful! I already feel more relaxed after reading the first one. I find that I’m feeling like a train that’s gotten derailed, then gets back on the tracks and is going in a good direction, then veers off the path again. When thst happens reading wise words helps my mental train to get back on the tracks. It’s a constant effort to keep getting myself back on the tracks, but I’m sure over time it will happen.

    Thank you again– I’m going to keep reading and more in depth!

  79.  #79Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 6:41 pm


    I’m a little curious about Chicago, are you?
    Could you perhaps take a “second look” at him, perhaps he may fill some of the “best friend” roles that S is currently filling for you.
    If you just wanted a best friend, S would be perfect. The problem is that you want more than best friend from him and he is not willing to be that. This is destroying your self esteem and is like an emotional cancer in your system. I don’t see how this will not keep you permanently off-balance!! I don’t ever want to feel that way ever again.

    Chicago appears to be pursuing you, imperfect as he might be, that’s the kind of dynamic that will help you heal yourself which is what you need 1st, to heal yourself.

  80.  #80Zia on May 16, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    Oh my gosh this is just gorgeous! I hear her pain, but Rori’s response – WOW. I feel all goose bumpy and tingly reading it :3

  81.  #81Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Thank you, Sangelina! It’s been so nice hearing from you on the blog : )

    Indigo (43) – Thank you as well! Your words were beautiful. Thanks for sharing how that was for you. And I so identified with your last paragraph. I agree that the structured work day gives me something to “hold on to” or to work within that is comforting and gives direction.

    It’s feels nice to be seen and heard : )

  82.  #82Kim on May 16, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    Lovergirl, does it matter whether he loves you or not?
    I mean, really. I have known quite a few men whom I knew ‘loved’ me, but were unable for one reason or other (issues, other women, geographical reasons), to fully step up and claim me or give me the relationship I deserve.
    That doesn’t mean we have to accept crumbs just because a man loves us. Or not. Truly, you do not know as you are getting in his head and making up stories anyway.
    So it depends what you want for yourself. Years of potential heartache and pregnancy scares and trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, or getting your life together, taking responsibility, being an amazing role model for your kids and getting the love and life you deserve.
    I would say the choice is yours?

  83.  #83Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Don’t feel offended, I believe you are on this site sharing with us because you want some input from others. I’m doing something I rarely do which is post repeatedly. I know when I had my days of turmoil I often did not like the feedback I got but I reminded myself that the feedback I got was based on what I shared and if I wanted honest feedback and help from others, I needed to stay open. Nobody on this blog lives my life with me, they know me based on what I shared.
    Based on what you’ve shared, if that is what you call being loved then the work you need to do is even a whole lot more!!! A man who loves you will not constantly remind you that he does not want to be in a relationship with you, will not sleep with you and not contact you for 2wks, will not actively be seeking others and intermittently return when the new find doesn’t pan out etc. Love is steady consistent nourishing and calming. At least set a higher bar for yourself for what love feels like so you can even begin to recognize it when you see glimpses of it.
    Why be on a relationship blog and resist any input you don’t agree with.

    Start the work, it’s hard work, but start. What I see does not remotely resemble love! I’m so sorry. On that note, I make my exit.

  84.  #84Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    Reading Rori’s article, it reminded me of a fun night I had last week ( a very late night that took me several days to recover from, but it was worth it ; )

    One of my dance students – a very cute, younger man, who I find very attractive – invited me to a bollywood party. So I went. And I didn’t get there until later because another friend of mine had invited me to see her show the same night (one of the rare cases of me actually having plans on a weekend. lol).

    long story short, there was a dance floor downstairs. At one point, as it was getting later, it was just me and my dance student and his friend, who was also an attractive younger man. They went upstairs, I guess to get drinks or something. I didn’t feel like going upstairs. I was enjoying the music. I wanted to keep dancing. So I did. I danced my little heart out, all by myself on that dance floor (with a couple making out in the corner. lol). I thought about following them, but I just wanted to keep dancing. After a few minutes, the two guys came back down the stairs, and we danced together again until we all walked back to the subway.

    So that thing, where she said just keep doing your thing, keep dancing. I guess it’s true : )

  85.  #85Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    Sangelina 79-

    No, I am not that curious about Chicago. He is a definite NO, as I told S when he asked how my heart felt about the Chicago guy. Yes, he is pursuing me, but he is also clearly not the right man for me long term.

    There are about a zillion reasons he won’t ever be my forever man. A big one is his attitude towards my kids. He is obviously a great dad to his own child, but would make a horrible stepfather to mine. Whenever I tell him anything about my children he takes a negative stance, judgmental and borderline rude. He would be super authoritarian and my teenagers would hate his guts. Guaranteed.

    S is actually always helpful and positive when I talk to him about anything to do with them. He puts himself in my son’s shoes and tries to offer advice from that perspective, and is also realistic. Like I have said, he would be great with them, if he wanted to take on that role.

    Another huge thing that bothers me about Chicago is the way he ignores me when I am talking. It is often like he brushes off what I am saying or doesn’t really care. He doesn’t get my jokes or laugh at them. I find myself very annoyed and bored with him most of the time.

  86.  #86Tereana on May 16, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Waterfall – 50 – Thank you! That felt beautiful to read as well : )

    It’s possible I may have had a mini breakthrough today. Or was it a big breakthrough? Who knows? But I found it useful to get into the idea that the anger and frustration I’ve been feeling at V (and others) for not calling me was coming from fear. And I got really clear about that. And then I decided to send him a message about it.

    I think this may have been what Dominique referred to as a “clean lean” forward, because I really just wanted to express the feelings that I identified. I’m not expecting a certain response or a result.

    And what I wanted to tell him (and did tell him) was that I feel scared. I feel scared that he’s never coming back from India and I won’t see him again. I miss him. I love him. And I want him to come home.

    I did not mean “want” as in an order for something he should do. I meant it like “want” as in a very pure desire that I realized I feel. Even though I know that he is “home” with his family, my feeling is that it would feel good to me if he were “home” with me.

    And now, magically, I feel better. I feel less piney, less whiney. I feel less “abandoned” and alone. It helps that I got to spend the afternoon at the baby shower of one of my coworkers. It was good girly time. But I think it was really the result of expressing my true and actual feelings – not feelings that were set up to mask my fears and desires.

    On my way home, I felt dressed up and ready to go out on a date – on a beautiful night like tonight, what a bonus that would be. But I did not have a date. And then, as I was walking home, I just felt grateful for the time to spend with myself. I noticed that my face was a little frowny, or blah, and I started smiling, inwardly, then outwardly. Just a little smile in my lips, and mostly a smile with my eyes. Suddenly, more people that I passed were making eye contact with me. One man even waved, and I smiled right back. Another man was clearly showing off his blue sports car. I did not mind. The smile is a powerful thing. : )

  87.  #87Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Sangelina 83-

    S has never gone 2 weeks without contacting me. Ever. We didn’t SEE each other, but he called on the phone. The most he’s ever gone without contacting me has been like 3 1/2 days. That is over the course of an entire year and only one time. Other times it’s never been more than 48 hrs.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me he doesn’t want to be in a relationship with me. It has come up due to pregnancies and due to him saying he was FEELING like he wanted that but that he thinks its more than he can handle. He’s said I am his “dream girl” and everything he would want in a relationship, more so even than some of the women he has been with before, just that he doesn’t think he can handle the situation.

    He hasn’t really actively sought out others, though he says he SHOULD be doing that. He went on a couple dates, never slept with the girl and turned around and said he just wasn’t feeling it with her. He has said before that he has a hard time WANTING to do that because of ME.

    I feel like S and I are not typical in so many ways that it is hard to get across without really delving deep. I do get defensive because I feel like I need to explain him and our relationship, what I want, what he wants, and how it differs from the norm. I do appreciate the advice though, even if it seems like I don’t. I know it is well meaning and there is a lot I can take from it.

    I just got a text from him a minute ago while I was typing this. He’s at the casino and said he had to drive through a lot of rain and wished he hadn’t went. See, he’s always updating me on his life, lol, and he communicates so much better than any guy I have ever met. It makes me feel good.

  88.  #88Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    I did not suggest chicago as forever guy.
    I suggested him as practice guy (and de-tox help guy), a distraction.
    Good luck…trusting that things will work out for you

  89.  #89Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:45 pm

    Sangelina 83-

    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  90.  #90Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    Sangelina 83-

    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

    I just feel misunderstood when it comes to him sometimes.

  91.  #91Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  92.  #92Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    I am having trouble getting my posts to show up. Not sure what is happening. Hope they aren’t spamming the blog!!

  93.  #93Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm


    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  94.  #94Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    I don’t know why my long posts to Sangelina won’t show up. Here is the short version- I do appreciate the advice, very much, I just feel misunderstood about S. Some of the things I say probably sound a lot worse than they are in real life, because when I am in my feelings I can be dramatic. Some of it is the nature of he and I and our situation that is different than most.

    Sangelina 83-

    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  95.  #95Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    I don’t know why my long posts to Sangelina won’t show up. Here is the short version- I do appreciate the advice, very much, I just feel misunderstood about S. Some of the things I say probably sound a lot worse than they are in real life, because when I am in my feelings I can be dramatic. Some of it is the nature of he and I and our situation that is different than most.

  96.  #96Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Sangelina 83- (Trying to split it up and see if that works)

    I appreciate your advice and there are things I can take from it for sure! I know I seem defensive about S, and I do get that way. I feel like we are outside the norm in some ways that need explanation.

    There is also a divide in the way I explain myself feeling and the way things really are, that sometimes needs clarification. Like the part about S not contacting me for 2 weeks after sex. It may have come across like he didn’t do that but S has NEVER gone more than a couple of days without calling- not even then. I think he went 3 1/2 days before he called. We just didn’t SEE each other and I was saying that I felt used. Some of that is just my tendency towards dramatic expression when I am upset.

  97.  #97Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  98.  #98Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    He doesn’t constantly remind me that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship. It has only come up due to the pregnancies and when he said he was FEELING like he wanted that with me, but that it wouldn’t be practical for him. He’s said himself that I am his “dream woman” in almost every way, just that he doesn’t think he could handle the situation.

    I know in my heart that I really do mean a lot to S. I feel like he’s SHOWN me that in many ways. He can’t stand for me to be upset with him. He says me being mad for 5 minutes feels like an eternity to him. He doesn’t want to let me go and he has said repeatedly that it is hard for him to have any desire to look for other women because of me. He just feels that is what he SHOULD be doing. He is afraid if he doesn’t he will never have kids and a family.

  99.  #99Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

  100.  #100Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    Maybe no one else can see the love but I FEEL it. I am more sure that I mean something to S than I ever really felt with my ex husband, or anyone else for that matter. S LISTENS to me. He cares what I am feeling and what is on my mind. He really takes the time to get to know me as a person and no man before him ever really truly seemed to care about that.

  101.  #101Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

    I just can’t buy that he doesn’t love me.

  102.  #102Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casino and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some $$! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

    I just can’t buy that he doesn’t love me. I feel that he does, even though he doesn’t say it.

  103.  #103Lovergirl on May 16, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    He just texted me a couple minutes ago, while I was typing, to say he’d driven through the rain to the casin0 and kind of wished he hadn’t gone. I told him good luck and hope you win some cash! There is absolutely no reason for him to randomly text me like that (and he does it all the time) and a multitude of other things that he does, if I am of no importance to him.

    I just can’t believe that he doesn’t love me, no matter how it appears to anyone else. Hope the edits help this go through!

  104.  #104Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm


    You are such a lovely person, I so feel it.
    I truly wish you the best. Any man should be so happy to have you in their life. You sound so kind-hearted.

  105.  #105Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    Why did he not make plans for the weekend a few days ahead with you? Why is he not picking you up and taking you somewhere nice to have dinner or whatever else he planned? Why is he randomly texting you while having fun by himself and perhaps you are by yourself (or with kids which is great too). Is he texting to confirm that you are available (by responding) and not with chicago? You have been advised before, by some sirens, not to discuss your relationship with chicago with him but you keep reassuring him that you don’t care for chicago. What purpose does that serve? Men don’t mind competition, some actually thrive on it. He needs not know your status with chicago since he has not declared himself a contender (you might be making him one, but better let him declare himself one by himself)

    Our work here is to learn to be siren. The S in my name stands for Siren. I changed the original name I started on this blog because I was struggling so much with being a siren, still leaning forward and making excuses so I started my name with S to remind me to be siren-like. I also bought the colorful bracelet to remind myself. Becoming a siren is the best thing I’ve ever done in my life. My 2 daughters are becoming sirens too due to experiences I share with them and Rori-inspired guidance I provide in their early dating lives. A Siren shows a man how she wants to be treated and rejects subpar treatment. Aim to be a siren with S or whoever, it is so worth the effort. If a guy I’m interested in texted me while having fun while not making plans with me, I’ll ignore it.

  106.  #106Sangelina on May 16, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    Way back then, D and I would talk for hours on end, light funny stuff, deep stuff. Our childhoods, growing up, his pain of not knowing his father (his Mom never told him and he still resents her), our first crushes, our first loves, our first sexual experiences, relationships, the meaning of life, our future goals and aspirations, careers, kids, parenting styles, friends, gossip, weather, anything and everything. He said many times he’s never had that with anyone else including the person he’s with but he’s not with me despite our ability to dig deep into each other’s souls. We could stay up all night talking. I never thought I would ever find that again but guess what? My current guy C, we’d go away for the weekend and talk all day and all night about all those kind of things that D and I talked about that I thought was so unique to D!

    It’s amazing what happens when we free up our emotions that are entangled with the wrong person.

  107.  #107Millie on May 17, 2015 at 1:00 am

    Sometimes I think we pay too much attention to the grey areas of men and relationships. We hear want we want to hear instead of seeing and accepting the whole– because if we did, we may have to walk away. My ex used to tell me he loved me but he couldn’t give me what I truly wanted. Hearing the statement containing both black and white truths, a positive and a negative in one statement– caused me to buy into the grey area. This was before I discovered Rori and now I know I would have handled it differently had I been in this situation again. When my ex said this to me– it wasn’t a break up like what just happened with my guy– it was more of a blanket statement of his capacity. I believed in the grey area. He is now happily married to someone else with a kid on the way. I’m way past it now and don’t care, but he was telling me the truth all along and I chose not to listen to it all. Just the part I wanted to believe in. Anyways, my point is— look at the whole of what a man is saying to you and ask yourself if this is what you really want. I read this amazing quote from Leigha Lake: “when you can walk away from what you don’t want– in order to have what you do want– your value sky rockets.” I see how that applies to us and to how when a man leaves we tend to value him more. At least I find myself doing that which I know I need to turn around.

  108.  #108Mandy on May 17, 2015 at 2:57 am

    I feel so secretive.

    This last time I’ve taken a serious stab at letting a man be attracted to me and talk to me good and well, it’s been a man I’ve been friends with for almost a decade (G).

    He’s been just my friend because he’s with a female friend of mine.

    See..I see nothing wrong with him telling me I’m attractive and that maybe I’d be a better fit for him than his current girlfriend.

    Desire doesn’t equal value, and physical intimacy can’t relplace emotional intimacy.

    My mom said she woke up in the middle of the night last night and the thought rang in her head, don’t let Mandy go to this man’s house at the end of the month…something bad is going to happen.

    Of course me being me, I’m still considering it. Seems like I’m walking into a firepit?

    Funny. I had my fortune told today. What I took from it was something that’s happened before is happening again and i have to try something new.

    I do have a habit of being a serial monogamist. From jumping from one relationship to the other. Maybe I might tell him I don’t want to be exclusive if something does happen.

    For it to happen, we both have to make decisions.

    Here’s the part that’s bugging me. He really wants to have sex and it’s preoccupying me.

  109.  #109Tereana on May 17, 2015 at 3:50 am

    Mandy – he wants to have sex and he’s with another woman?

  110.  #110Waterfall on May 17, 2015 at 3:55 am

    Me and D would talk on the phone for hours. I used to think he wouldn’t stop talking to me. It used to scare me. Why is he talking to me?! I couldn’t really understand why he thought we had such a bond?! I felt very confused…

    It was a strange relationship. It felt more like a relationship that was going nowhere, yet when we were alone he would constantly tell me how much he loved me, etc, etc…

    When we started going out we saw each other very regularly, and we did some really nice stuff together and I was just happy to see where it was going..

    I was really enjoying being in a relationship and going for days out and weekends away and that sort of thing.

    But, I dunno… it all felt so ridiculously intense, and in truth I never felt good enough for D.

    This would manifest in different ways. ie When I met up with friends and their boyfriends, he would find an excuse not to be there. When we talked to other people I noticed he never looked at me or ever used my name or said “we”. He never told anyone he was going out with me, and I never met any of his friends…

    These were all warning signals to me. I think I am ridiculously over aware of such things but they stood out like a sore thumb.

    Anyway, after a few months we spent Christmas together and that’s when the cracks really started to appear. On NYE he disappeared and I didn’t hear from him for a day or two. When he came back everything seemed fine, but the hurt was already manifesting in me that I found his behaviour to be odd. Why had he gone off on his own? Why didn’t he care about what I was doing on NYE? This was like the beginning of the end for me.

    The next few weeks we carried on as normal. Then one weekend he broke down and told me he was depressed and he couldn’t see me as much anymore. He also told me I needed to meet a man who didn’t want children. This ran like a cold chill down my spine…

    Anyway, he left me a letter one day and I broke down and cried. I felt devastated. This was what I was dreading. Then literally the next day I woke up feeling 180 degrees change in my mood. If felt free, I felt happy. And I decided there and then to cut him out of my life for good.

    I think it was at that point that he started yo-yoing. He phoned me and phoned me, text me and text me, and I agreed to see him. He would constantly berate me for not going over to his flat, so I did. At this point we sort of kissed and made up and I felt like I would lean back and try and see where things went from there..

    We carried on for a bit but something strange happened. One day he phoned me at work and cancelled our plans for the weekend. He told me from now on he would not be able to see me at the weekend and that I had to be patient. He said he had to go home and look after his sick father.

    Although all of this was true, for some reason, I just couldn’t see it working anymore. But he convinced me and convinced me and I carried on agreeing to see him. After a while I just broke down and said I needed more. It all came to a head at the Easter and yet again I felt like he couldn’t care less where I was and what I was doing and it didn’t feel right. I broke down and told him I wanted more and he was not the right man for me.

    He then broke down and begged me to give him a bit of time to sort things out. He promised me we’ed go away again on trips and it would be just like the start of our relationship. And although we did go out sporadically, it just felt more like lip service to a relationship – than a proper relationship. And as the summer dragged on I kept my distance from him more and more. This in turn drove him crazy and he would call me day and night (just to hear my voice). And we would talk on the phone for hours and hours. Literally he would call me every night around 10pm or he would ask to come over and see me.

    He was a lovely man. And I would have loved it if he had committed to me. But something was wrong. Maybe I felt he was too out of my league. Many fit and attractive women would flirt with him and I felt like a little girl in comparison to most of them. Something to me just wasn’t quite right in our pairing. I felt like I had to try to hard all the time and was always worried that he wasn’t really “that into me…”

    Either way, I just wanted to feel secure and I didn’t.

    Every time we talked about where our relationship was going he would tell me that he enjoyed it most of all when he was alone with me. To me it sounded like he only wanted to spend time with me when I was in my flat and he could have me all to himself. I knew this would never work as a long term relationship because I needed someone who would want to spend time with my family and friends too..

    During that summer he made a good deal of effort to spend time with my family and friends, and in so many ways this was a purely blissful time for me. But also he would still go for weeks or days and I wouldn’t really know what he was doing and he wouldn’t really know what I was doing.

    One time he came to visit my family with me and on the way back he told me he was off the next day on holiday with our walking group. And he had never told me about it beforehand, or invited me to go with him.

    This was another turning point for me. I literally decided to drop him then and there, but again he persisted and persisted and battled to keep the relationship going.

    Sometimes I think that he thought because I was going off and doing stuff on my own, then he should too. He seemed completely miffed that I would be upset at a) him going off with our group and not telling me b) not even asking me to come along.

    Maybe he thought that’s what he was supposed to do?! Who knows….

    Also, around this time he told me that he had rented out both of the rooms in his flat and had no-where to sleep. I found this a completely peculiar thing to do for a man in his mid-forties! I think he was planning on just turning up and staying at mine. I think he had no idea that you need to do these things with a little thought and discussion first.

    Also, I was very scared of living with him. He was very messy and seemed to delight in winding me up by dumping his belongings on the floor or making a mess in the kitchen etc. Also he never paid for hardly anything unless it came from the bottom of a bargain bin.

    I truly to this day don’t know what was going on with him. I wished he had let me go sooner. But then at the same time, I don’t think that he did any of those things to hurt me. Or maybe that’s my naivety?!

    I think possibly he just wanted us to be together and that was the only way he knew how to do it. Or am I being naive? I don’t know. I feel very confused…

    Sorry for the ramble…

  111.  #111Tereana on May 17, 2015 at 3:55 am

    There was something I was posting last night and I lost it. That’s because I started chatting with M, my ex. I had wanted him to call me yesterday. All day, there I was, thinking he did not call. And yet, he did. Twice. He tried calling at the one moment when I was doing something else, and my phone didn’t show me the missed call. Argh!

    Mercury retrograde! *shakes fist*

    And this, too: sometimes I think I get so worked up about how I think someone isn’t treating me well, or doing XYZ, that I actually miss seeing the good parts and don’t notice when they actually do do something good.

    Mercury retrograde…thanks

  112.  #112Waterfall on May 17, 2015 at 4:06 am

    There was a point to that ramble!!

    Sorry, what I wanted to say was that I wish I had honoured myself and walked away earlier. No man deserves to have so much of your time and attention if his not giving you want you want and need in order to make you happy.

  113.  #113Waterfall on May 17, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Oops, I mean:

    if “he” his not giving you want you want and need in order to make you happy.

  114.  #114Indigo on May 17, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Millie 97,

    I feel really impressed with what you’ve said here – that we pay too much attention to the grey area with a man, and not enough on believing the truth of what he’s saying. I really feel we women need to strengthen ourselves enough to take what a man says at face value and then make a choice to act for ourselves accordingly. And I really do think it’s strength. So often we turn away from the truth of a man’s words or actions because we are afraid, we are afraid that we will fall apart.

    Very often I think a man is confused about what he really wants – and I identify with this because in some ways I am confused about what I really want. I think this is the case with Lovergirl’s man. And I think to a lesser extent it’s the case with my man, D. I have seen him grow in front of my very eyes and heal and come to some realisations and become more attentive to me, but I still think he’s somewhat conflicted about a forever commitment. I don’t think he knows for sure. Now, I’m fully aware of this. I am fully aware of every aspect of where things stand between us – what it is, and what it isn’t. And time will tell, I suppose, whether I outgrow him in this way, or whether we grow together.

  115.  #115Indigo on May 17, 2015 at 4:14 am

    I should say, D’s conflict about a forever commitment has nothing at all to do with me, and nothing to do with his feelings for me. It has everything to do with the fact that he’s introverted and doesn’t know if he wants someone around full-time. He doesn’t yet know if he would be happier as part of a couple, or alone. I think I know the answer to this one, but of course it’s not my journey and not my decision. I can only trust that I’ll make the right decision for me when I need to.

  116.  #116Waterfall on May 17, 2015 at 4:19 am

    Sangelina (79) –

    I feel inspired by what you have wrote here to Lovergirl..

    ‘Chicago appears to be pursuing you, imperfect as he might be, that’s the kind of dynamic that will help you heal yourself which is what you need 1st, to heal yourself.’

    Yes, I agree. A man who is actively pursuing you could fulfil this role perfectly.

    I need to get a man like this, I would be glad of it.

    I have had a few male friends over the last few years and they have been very good friends but nothing more as there is no spark there. One of my friends I am worried about losing him as I sense he wants more than just a friendship from me. Another friend now has a girlfriend, as do many of the others…

  117.  #117Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 6:16 am

    lovergirl – whether or not S loves you is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is, is this working for you? A man who constantly tells you that you aren’t his girlfriend, aren’t in relationship, who frequently seems to send you on a rollercoaster ride of highs and lows.

    I feel it does, actually. I feel that after all of that time in your marriage, you really NEED to feel the extremes, you need to feel SOMETHING, and you need those feelings to be strong and intense.

    I personally don’t feel anything wrong with that. I’ve been through it myself and there was NO logicking me out of my feelings. The heart wants what it wants.

    So, say S LOVES you. Loves you like the dickens. Loves you like nobody’s business. Loves you like the desert loves the rain. Say he does (and I do not know!)…then what? Does that change anything?

  118.  #118Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 6:31 am

    lovergirl – are you open to or already using Rori’s “tools”? The beautiful thing about the tools is they are all about FEELING. Nothing any of us says here really matters, my experience is that when I feel my feelings FULLY, then my own autonomous intelligence knows the right thing to do for me. There was no way I would ever have put myself through the agony of setting boundaries with my last shady affair, if I hadn’t been REALLY feeling the agony of NOT setting boundaries and having better standards for myself.

    I *knew* better, logically, rationally, I KNEW better – and – none of that helped anything because the FEELINGS were so strong. A lot of the sirens here don’t seem to have had a lot of violence in their past. I did – and I remember riffing a lot about that and it seemed to scare the others. When I riffed and got really deep, I don’t think anybody commented on it except Rori! I felt alone, which is maybe why I feel such a strong desire to connect with you.

    When I got really present with my feelings, told the truth, and sank into them …sheer stark terror of men came up. Feelings of murderous rage and hatred came up. Very ugly, NOT nice, NOT pretty girly thoughts and feelings came up.

    I hope my messages are coming across with the intended softness and compassion and welcoming of who and where you are right now.

    Naturally, I feel it’s totally possible that I might be projecting and if so then yes please totally disregard!

  119.  #119Sangelina on May 17, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Yes, Waterfall,

    my 1st 2 post-rori relationships were practice relationships. I was actively CDing with 2 or 3 guys at a time but in each case I chose one who was consistently pursuing me and treating me well. I needed that to fully experience what it felt like to have a man’s energy fully coming at me. When I focused on one, other CDs fell by the way side. I still had ambivalent CDs, distracted CDs, “pursue me” CDs, “change this and that about yourself” CDs but I was so over that!

    It was a conscious decision not based on intensity of attraction. Guy A was from E-harmony, Guy B was from match.com. My guy C was from plenty-of-fish.

    As I read about your guy above, clinical depression may indeed explain many of those inconsistencies (I’m in the medical profession).

    Are you dating online?

  120.  #120Labbit on May 17, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Here is something I’ve learned about men and one way we can tap into getting closer with them.

    Men are always preparing for the future. They’re very future-oriented. They have goals in their work life, the home they want to own, and so on. On the other hand, men are very stressed out about the present. Right now is totally scary to them, though they may not want to admit this. They have trouble focusing on things right in front of them. It’s hard for them to slow down and enjoy the moment.

    Women rarely worry about this moment. As far as we are concerned, this moment takes care of itself. It’s the future that panics us. What will happen at work in 6 months? Where will I be living 5 years from now? Will we be married? And so on.

    Ideally, men look to us to help ground them in the present. When we are our most relaxed, carefree selves, we can easily bring our man or any man into this moment. And once here, we can show him how to relax and have fun in the moment. This also looks like opening our hearts — and it’s not something we have to think about. We just have to be here, right here right now, wherever we are, looking for ways to have fun and enjoy ourselves. A man is drawn into this deeply.

    If we’re worried about the future, especially while with our man, suddenly there are two of us thinking about things down the line, neither of us is present for the moment, and our connection to each other is lost. Now obviously there are times when we women have to think about the future…but for the most part, within our relationships or dating life, the more we can simply relax and enjoy what’s going on RIGHT NOW, the more the future will take care of itself — and the more a man will want to take care of it for us.

    Being in the NOW moment is very feminine. The future is a masculine place.

  121.  #121Sangelina on May 17, 2015 at 7:25 am

    I had healed probably 85-90% (not sure if one can even quantify healing) by the time I met guy C and I credit our success to my “state of health” because he just got divorced 4 months prior and it was interesting watching him heal through me (something I believe Dominique refers to often here).

    Everyone around him comments on how his personality has changed for the better. His 26 yr old son initially was very suspicious of me as he noticed the changes in his Dad and was suggesting to him that I might be controlling him. His “rough and tough talking” Dad was gentle and patient in not just the way he treated me but his interactions with everyone around including him. He just felt inspired. Now his son is a believer and treating his girlfriend with respect and for the 1st time in his life has a relationship lasting more than a year. Being a siren not only benefits us, it’s a gift that keeps on giving.

  122.  #122Sangelina on May 17, 2015 at 8:02 am

    Interesting, I need to fully digest that.

    I guess I’m practicing that. We are not talking about our future except to say that marriage is not a priority right now. We are taking it one day at a time, as such, mostly in the present.

  123.  #123Indigo on May 17, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Beloved 108,

    I remember reading your riffing, and I remember being quite moved, and tearing up. And I remember feeling totally inadequate to say anything or offer any words. I’d rather hold the space and keep silent unless I really feel I have something to add or say.

  124.  #124Kim on May 17, 2015 at 8:40 am

    107 Beloved: Amen to that.
    Love makes no difference. At least not in this scenario.
    Took me years to understand that the love from an unavailable man, for whatever reason unavailable, doesn’t mean squiddly. It’s a lame excuse to keep us stuck in a bad place.
    A love between two healthy and relationship-able adults is a completely different thing, and doesn’t hold drama and excuses and/or just using another person to gratify one’s needs or get an ego stroke.
    Real mature adult love looks for solutions to be together and make things work. Everything else is just crumbs, or a story we tell ourselves because we like to stay stuck and think we do not deserve it all…sad.

  125.  #125Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Kim #114
    Good morning Siren,
    Great to hear from you!!!
    How is your life with MoM going?

  126.  #126Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Beloved #107

    I[m really likeing what you are saying here….
    This makes sense…
    Lovegirl has been in a long term miserable marriage and is totally needing to experiment and “stay stuck”
    IF she NEEDs to… life is for learning…
    especially when she’s feeling he is somewhat of a crutch…
    But we are ALLL wanting you NOT to suffer and that is why we want to keep you using the Rori tools and continue on your Siren journey

    Lovegirl you are juggling a lot with 5 children…
    You are processing and learning…
    You are BRAVE and courageous to get yourself
    AND your children out of what sounds like an abusive Unloving marriage…
    Give yourself MUCH LOVE for that!!!

  127.  #127Alice on May 17, 2015 at 9:23 am


    I hope you are well! I don’t often post here, but do sometimes, and the support I’ve received from you all and Rori has been so important to me, so I wanted to share some good news. For the past year, I’ve been trying to let go of this person I was in love with… for years. He was The One. My Other Half. Etc, Etc. I was stuck and stubborn, heartbroken, beating myself up constantly, failing to make progress on my PhD…

    But then… all of a sudden… I kind of just.. let go. I don’t know how it happened, but there was just this build up of energy inside me and I felt so trapped in my own skin… and I cried a lot… and decided I wanted to break free of the toxic illusions I was holding on to and be whole and here in the present moment… I HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT FOR SOOO LONG!!! it feels SO GOOD! To feel whole again, in myself. I was holding on to the fantasy that he would come back and validate me, which was only the flipside of the illusion that there’s something wrong with me, which is why he didn’t choose me… BUT THEY’RE BOTH ILLUSIONS, which I realize now. Once is beautiful and one is ugly, but they both feed each other and take me away from me, from now.

    I am so grateful for this precious life and all my experiences. I feel whole. I feel like I can take care of Girl Me, I feel like I can BE Girl Me. Be feminine and open with someone else… or with him if i see him again… or with anyone… I love myself, unconditionally… well, still a bit hard on myself academics-wise, but working on that…

    Thank you for listening, sirens. You all have been an inspiration for me, a signpost of where I wanted to be, so thank you!

    Love and bright blessings!

    Also, I found this wonderful resource on fear of uncertainty from the Pinch Me Living channel, she says in this video that EVERYTHING is uncertain, even that which you think is certain and safe, so why NOT go out there, be bold, take a risk? I love it! 😀


  128.  #128Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Beloved #108
    How beautiful and authentic and soft of you to share alllll these feelings of rage and fear
    and the path you have traveled to get here.

    I too experienced Sheer RAGE and Hot, White ANGER
    when I accessed my “Stranger”
    One of the amazing tools in Toxic Men CD…
    Learning to befriend this RAGE and Terror
    Was one of the more Powerful things I have experienced and It
    has changed my life!!!

  129.  #129Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:29 am

    Kim #114
    Love, love this:
    “Real mature adult love looks for solutions to be together and make things work. Everything else is just crumbs, or a story we tell ourselves”

  130.  #130Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:38 am

    After much meditation, reading all that I could on Evan Marc’s blog and here on Siren Island…
    I took the step I knew I needed to

    I walked away from what I don’t want– in order to have what I do want!!!

    I broke up with Spirit today – via text –
    this time I’m NOT dating HIM anymore…
    before I CDed AND dated him…

    the past 2 months I got a clear look at who he really is
    and found He is NOT the caliber of Man I want…

    I said:
    “Darling Rob,
    I am confused and disappointed that we couldn’t talk about this…
    My heart is broken and I feel sad…
    We both tried very hard to make this work over the past 10 months.
    I wish you the best.

    Because we were exclusive, For my peace of mind and because I do care about him…
    I didn’t want to start dating again without ending it with him first.

  131.  #131Kim on May 17, 2015 at 9:43 am

    I feel for you, but for what it’s worth, I agree with it all and I would have done the same and much sooner. You gave him a lot of chNces, stayed open and loving and warm but it seems he has another form of relationship as his ideal, one that most women probably wouldn’t want for themselves…
    Did he reply?
    All going reasonably well here, thanks for asking…I wrote a bit above – we had some of my family here and now I am sick with the flu but he has been wonderful through it all.
    I suspect he is breathing a sigh of relief that I can’t drag him around all weekend and he has an excuse to sleep in and sit on the couch a lot – haha. I really can’t do much but sit in bed.
    He loves it lol.
    Things have been ok really..I can’t complain at all… 🙂

  132.  #132Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:58 am

    No he didn’t reply…
    I’m sure he won’t for a few weeks…
    OR maybe NEVER? I have not idea what he is doing?!!!

    Ohhhh… was your family in from Germany?
    I’m so glad MoM steps up and takes care!!!
    I hope you will be well soon…
    That flu sucks…
    mine lasted 3 weeks before I felt back to my energetic self…Your young and lovely…
    Hopfully it won’t last that long!!!

    Thank you for your words of encouragement!!

  133.  #133Kim on May 17, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Well, Azure, more like a bad cold…I am a wimp when I can’t be active…it really bothers me, alas I am kinda stuck in bed right now..hopefully not three weeks ugh.
    Meanwhile MoM is happily pottering around the house lol.
    That must feel bad not knowing what he is even doing and I agre not a relationship any of us would really want, kudos to you to end it and march on towards your happy ever after.
    I am sure he will respond but at the end of the day, you do need more than that, and you have just increased your chances of getting all you deserve 🙂
    xo <3

  134.  #134Linda on May 17, 2015 at 10:14 am

    Azure wrote: (talking about what she is experiencing right now with Spirit)

    “off balance and unloved is the feeling from my childhood from my family.”

    I could have written these words myself about me. I suppose to some extent many of us could write the same as a read some of our posts.

    One of the most important things about Rori’s work here is not about relationships at all! It is about us. It is about how we learn to love ourselves and lavishing it upon ourselves. Once we get “know” how satisfying and balanced and safe feels, then anything else wont feel right.

    If energy from a man that keeps me from feeling calm, grounded, safe and adored…or disrupts me or keeps me continually off balance, is NOT something I will accept in my life anymore. I would not have known the difference if I had not learned how to treat myself well first. Even if I am not sure at first.. it isn’t long before I find myself doing what I need to and am taking action to find my balance again. That could mean many different courses of action but I simply refuse to live any other way.

    This is what I wish for all of us.

  135.  #135Alice on May 17, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Rori, and Jeanne,

    Jeanne, you’re not alone!
    This post resonates so much with me, I’ve been doing all these things too! Punishing myself because I thought *I* was the problem, that there *was* a problem, either him or me, and I didn’t want to be angry at him because I love him and he’s adorable, so I became angry at me instead 🙁 But now I know how much I love me and how super adorable I am!! 😀 And super smart and full of love and hugs and excitement.

    “Imagine people can SEE this field of love and light around you and they’re just automatically drawn to you.” It DOES feel strange! Like a fantasy – no, a beautiful reality that is all mine!

    This post makes me feel so full of excitement to live my life and share my beauty with the world! I have to go out, do my work, meet people!

    Later, sirens!

  136.  #136Alice on May 17, 2015 at 10:22 am

    (((Azure))) big hugs! You’re amazing <3

  137.  #137Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 10:23 am

    ((((Azure))) It may not be the appropriate response to your sadness but I want to clap and cheer you. I feel very sorry that it hasn’t worked the way that would have felt beautiful with Spirit but hope that for you by making the clean break it will open up the space for the beautiful feeling, easy-flow person – the mature relationship Kim mentions above.

    Beloved – I don’t remember reading those posts but feel sorry that you felt alone with them. You have always been a beacon for me on here, of really accessing and sharing and processing all emotions right down to the gnawed bones and your wisdom is a blessing (or at least has been to me)

    Kim/Lovergirl – I agree, love means nothing without the ability to do/be in/want to be in relationship – I have had this particular lesson time and time again but yes,like most of us know, it often takes getting to a place of feeling too painful to manage, or it takes all the constant working behind the scenes on ourselves and our self love to shift, or quite possibly a combination of the two, before we extricate ourselves.

    I feel so lukewarm about this on-lining dating. I’m not sure I feel open to it at all and that’s probably coming across. I would quite like some opinion on that? Maybe, I just don’t feel open to dating anyone, but that’s not true. I don’t feel open to dating any of these ones and so, I don’t know what to do 🙁 There are a couple who seem okay but with children and I personally didn’t want to date anyone with children (I don’t have any), do I keep that as a bottom-line or do I experiment? And if it’s a bottom-line (or a grey area) shall I express my concern and how? Any ideas? Also, there are men who I know may ask me out but I’m not feeling it for their looks, or for the way the conversations are boring me..do I go anyway? Finally, lots of them want my number etc and I don’t give it to anyone because I don’t want to feel imposed upon but I actually have not had one yet who I’ve thought ‘yeah i’ll meet you!’ so I feel ambivalent, and the resistant to the persistent ones. Any advice? Should I be giving more airspace to the persistent ones, as it could purely be my resistance?

    I don’t know, I feel close to stopping already after just a few days…maybe it isn’t for me right now…

  138.  #138Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 10:27 am

    “One of the most important things about Rori’s work here is not about relationships at all! It is about us. It is about how we learn to love ourselves and lavishing it upon ourselves. Once we get “know” how satisfying and balanced and safe feels, then anything else wont feel right.

    If energy from a man that keeps me from feeling calm, grounded, safe and adored…or disrupts me or keeps me continually off balance, is NOT something I will accept in my life anymore. I would not have known the difference if I had not learned how to treat myself well first.”

    LOVE THIS LINDA – I think I can feel that there have been shifts for me in this area…I think, I feel much more protective of my inner self and stability. I hope so.

  139.  #139Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 10:28 am

    Alice – what lovely upbeat energy your post exudes 🙂

  140.  #140Linda on May 17, 2015 at 10:28 am


    I am happy you have taken this step. It feels good to have settled any “what ifs” because a mans energy has come toward us again.

    I have much respect for you. I will tell you something that FW wrote to me. I have it plastered on heart.
    “Now.. honor the woman who made a decision to honor herself”


  141.  #141Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Indigo – wow, thank you! I always felt I was scaring everyone, somehow “untouchable” or shameful or something…! I kept and keep doing it anyway, though, because I need to, for me, to see what the heck is really going on with me.

    Sophie – It feels really soft and nice to hear positive feedback about what I share, thank you.

    Azure – what I want to say to you about not wanting someone else to suffer – first of all, you don’t know someone else is “suffering”, and next – how does it feel to just be present with where someone else is at without wanting to fix or change it?

    Sometimes I do feel an urge to get super logical and lectur- ish and throw a lot of stuff around that “makes sense” and I do my best to practice leaning back. When I do, I realize there’s a belief that I “should” have done things differently, a belief that if I had known better, I would have done better, a belief that what I went through was somehow wrong, misguided, imperfect and I should “save” someone else from their own experience.

  142.  #142Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Today I spent some time after church with a woman I met recently and we talked about being in love and relationships. She shared with me that she is a caregiver, he husband has Alzheimer’s, and once he transitions she doesn’t want another relationship again.
    She feels fulfilled in so many other areas of her life that she doesn’t feel a need to fill the space with another man once he’s gone.

    It reminded me of an interview with another woman in her 80’s, who said that she just pretty much gave up on men because she buried 2 husbands, then the committed partners she had after that started dying, too. The men in her age bracket that she’s met are in such frail health that she has just decided to quit romantic and sexual relationships entirely.

    I realized how there are just no guarantees in life, and felt even more content to feel super happy and satisfied with where I am right and my singleness.

  143.  #143Sangelina on May 17, 2015 at 11:22 am


    From someone who actively dated online for over a decade…

    it can be over-whelming initially, sifting through all the initial responses but the initial responses tend to hold more prospects because after the 1st 2 weeks, your face in no longer new on the site and the interest in you dwindles rapidly

    so take the time to respond to as many as you can except the ones that completely turn you off. Respond to the hot ones and so so ones and boring ones as long as they meet your basic criteria and don’t have any deal breakers. Take the time to read their profile before responding and mention something you may have in common or say something to show you actually read their profile. Remember not everyone you respond to will continue the convo

    Give you number to them for texting or calling. I try not to call first, that helps me gauge their interest level. What could be the downside to giving your number?
    If you are busy, let it go to voicemail and call back when you are relaxed. They often ask the best time to call, tell them. Be prepared for the call, relaxed preferably in bed and stay engaged during the call. Listen very carefully.
    Guys reveal a lot about themselves in the first few convos …

  144.  #144Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 11:27 am

    Beloved… thank you for your thoughtful, wise caring words…

    Darling Siren….Of course this is from MY past
    and How I have decided to NOT repeat
    who I was before:
    the reason I make sure I am VERY upfront and honest,
    vulnerable and authentic
    when I know I want to start dating others
    with men I have agreed to be exclusive with
    Is because in my past… to create chaos and keep LOVE away
    when I was younger
    I left a path of deceite, lieing, sneaky underhanded, go out behind my boyfriends backs for years..
    This was my way of keeping intimacy from EVER
    always making ME wrong
    (I felt guilty, they always found out, and they hated ME for it)
    and then I’d run back begging for their love and forgiveness
    Playing my childhood over and over…
    Having to beg for my mother and fathers love
    for known/unknown wrongs I did/did not commit!

    So this feels SOOO good to me
    I do this for ME…
    I have not regrets when I end things….
    IN *MY* heart *I* have done what I believe
    is fair and kind…
    I don’t have to run back
    begging for forgiveness

    I know how to STOP that OLD PATTERN
    Yay ME… I love you Azure!!!

  145.  #145Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 11:35 am

    Azure – Oh, dear, sweet precious heart – how wonderful for you to come to a place of choice and decision. I heard once that we cannot fully move on to being really in love again until we are emotionally finished with our ex(es). I feel that by giving the exclusive relationship a real chance, you can grieve the loss, move and and be emotionally finished, with no questions or doubts about what might have been. You *know* from experience now. I don’t know what the future hold for you, and, I feel certain you are building your self-esteem which can only bring you more satisfaction in the long run.

  146.  #146Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Yes, yay YOU, I love you, too, Azure!!! (((((Azure Blu))))

  147.  #147Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 11:40 am

    {{{Beloved)))) #134
    Sooo beautifully put!!!
    I LOVE you too!!!

  148.  #148Sangelina on May 17, 2015 at 11:49 am

    I would suggest experimenting even with guys who have children and see what happens. Accept as many dates as you can, bearing in mind that many fizzle out after the first dates. I usually kept the 1st dates very simple, and very short usually coffee.

    The process from first email to 2nd date weeds out a high percentage of the guys you interact with including the ones you may like so be prepared for that and try not to get attached to anyone at least before the 2nd date.

    Try and have fun with the process. I did.

  149.  #149Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    Hi Sangelina – I feel grateful that you responded to my post – I’ve done a ton of online dating before so it’s not really those things it’s more the way i’m feeling about it.

    I know myself they are not having my number…unless it’s someone I feel genuine interest in…I feel okay about that…I feel less overwhelmed when I compartmentalize my time.

    I haven’t had the initial onslaught of interest this time which I feel curious about. It may be because I’m in a totally different part of the country, or because my ambivalence comes across ha ha

    I’m feeling really bored with the back/fourth going nowhere chat … but also, holding myself back from the ‘i’d feel better meeting in person’ speech because I feel so ambivalent about whether I actually want to ha

    I have no children as a deal-breaker I think…My desire to travel/live in other countries etc is too strong to date someone with a child and I feel concerned about keeping things simple – and children and histories aren’t necessarily…not saying they have to be and I am in an open discussion with a nice man right now about how I feel about him having children…

    I feel concerned about meeting the ones who I just don’t feel excited about meeting … one who does not appear present and conversation is like extracting teeth and we have different religious views which I feel wary of. Another, who feels too intellectual…he hasn’t made me laugh and I don’t like his pics but maybe I should give him a try…

    It is completely and totally my ambivalence I feel curious about, and whether I should just drop it altogether or just keep feeling through a little longer. The latter perhaps. I feel uncomfortable, hence maybe, a little longer out of my comfort zone won’t do me any harm at all…

    Thank you and lots oflove

  150.  #150Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Here’s some good siren stuff…
    yesterday TG and his 2 friends were in the main living room, and when I walked through we all chatted until I realized, oh, they are being a-holes (they said outright to me, they are being a-holes).

    I suddenly thought of that song “Everything” by Alanis Morissette, and the first line of the song is, “I can be an a$$hole of the grandest kind”, and how I felt like I was TOTALLY being an a$$hole the day of my project final because I felt like I was cracking under the pressure, and poured love love love over all the a$$holishness (which didn’t mean I had to stick around for more of the conversation).

    So I said, oh, I don’t want to be involved in this, carry on!

    I moved into the kitchen to do my thing, and next thing I know, I’m surrounded by all three of them, and they are being sweet and joking with me, getting really close. I mean..thisclose. I felt totally comfortable, and it felt really yummy to have them all around 🙂 They just stood there talking, while I went about my business (making popcorn, lol), and couldn’t seem to leave until TG kind of pushed them.


    I also had to ponder that term…because…an a$$hole is a super-sensitive, very tender part of the anatomy. Being a sphincter, it also can recoil and pucker if it gets poked or prodded. It’s an interesting term to use. I haven’t come to any conclusions or realizations about it, just something interesting I felt recently.

  151.  #151Femininewoman on May 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Azure I get that you needed to end it and yet it bothers me that you did it by text. I would hate to be on the receiving end. Maybe if it were me I would not respond either. Then again I am the type who would decide to end it but say nothing. When the next request comes for a date I have responded no thanks or that I have something else going on that day. I have become comfortable with no closure.

  152.  #152Femininewoman on May 17, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    Kim I feel so pleased reading your posts these days. You have come such a long and are an example of a woman driving a stake in the ground for herself. I feel so happy for how you have turned your life around since Mr. P.

  153.  #153Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    But in the end it always feels better…
    FOR ME… with closure…
    I know Rori says… “no closure” is fine…
    BUT I was exclusive and
    I am wanting to start dating again…
    This works best for ME
    I had tried to talk to him on the phone…
    He hadn’t returned my voicemail…
    I’m done… I was feeling controlled and manipulated…
    even if that wasn’t his intent…

    I had given it my open hearted, love and vulnerabiltiy
    Learned MORE about Intimacy with a man I cared about…
    Alll good… Still heartbroken and sad…
    I feel all the Siren love an suppport so
    This too shall pass

  154.  #154Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 12:45 pm

    Belove – I absolutely love your deconstruction of the word asshole now I feel fascinated too and curious to ponder … that all fits with the ideology that generally a88holes, or those behaving as such are actually people in pain…astute observation:)

    I love Linda’s commentary on what FW said to her directed at Azure Blu – a very nice reminder

    (((azure ))) more hugs

    Okay so maybe the online thing is good practice after all – I just had a very interesting exchange with a man who I honestly told my feelings of reticence regarding his feelings to which he said he’d read my profile and already considered all of that and then I sent another honest post about feeling ambivalent about dating in general and not really understanding some of his responses to me and asking for clarification on exactly what he wanted/thought he was able to offer etc … Then I felt I’d turned something really intense so said I felt uncomfortable about that and that I was going offline, to which he replied that he hadn’t found it intense but refreshing and he’ll leave a reply for me…

    hmmmm might not be able to shake them off so easily 🙂

    hmmmm very good practice indeed …. that I don’t like ha ha

  155.  #155Mandy on May 17, 2015 at 12:45 pm

    Tereana -he totally does. He’s in a sexless relationship too.

    Thing is, I know this is a no-no. This guy is actually relationship material. I respect him. He’s my friend. We’re just really hot for each other and trying to make sense of it and we can’t help but sort of fantasize sometimes.

    This is freaky i know but I’ve been with them as a couple before so I already have been with him.

    My mom woke the other night and it dropped on her like a rock that this man needs to make a decision.

    I thought that sounds like what the SIRENS would say.
    (My mom is one of the ultimate Sirens.)

    So as you can see…YAY for me for openin up enough to like another man for the first time in three years…

    But uh-oh to the whole sex thing…it really renders you vulnerable when you haven’t had enough sex to say you’ve had much of a sex life in the last three years!

  156.  #156Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    My post makes no sense – reticence regarding his children – however, maybe that was yet another freudian slip – I do feel very concerned over men’s feelings – especially regarding letting them down – clever me and my typos…here are some feelings to find and get messy with …

  157.  #157Liquid Light on May 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    I organized a happy hour at work last week. It was a sort of birthday celebration/reunion with an ex-colleague. A ton of people showed up and it was a blast.

    I ended up sitting next to someone who is one of the managers on a new project I’ve been assigned to recently. He’s an attractive man and has a nice energy about him. We’ve flirted a bit but at the happy hour, I found myself being very flirtatious. As the night wore on (someone bought me shot and it went down like water, that started it I think 😉 I was touching him and focussing on him more and more. I never touch anyone at work so I was even surprised by my behavior. He didn’t seem to mind and he flirted back. He ended up walking me back to my transportation back home. I kind of ditched the other people (colleagues) we were walking with! Anyway, it was a really crazy and fun night.

    Now, I’m feeling a bit weird about it and not sure how to handle it. Its a delicate situation because we work together and part of me is really freaked out about getting involved with someone at work and then not having it work out. And having to deal with bad/hurt feelings with someone you broke up with at work. I really don’t want that.

    On the other hand, he’s really sweet and I don’t want my fears about what-ifs to get the way of exploring something with him. And what if he acts totally differently when I see him again? I really hardly know him, maybe we won’t be so enamored with each other when we get to know each other better and then feel really awkward around each other. That would be a big drag.

    So wondering what I should do? Encourage it or let it go? Just have fun with him and continue to flirt but don’t let it go any farther?

    I was surrounded by men at the happy hour that were being flirtatious, it wasn’t just him. The testosterone was off the charts! LOL Maybe he just thinks I’m a big flirt, and maybe he’s right? Maybe that’s all I really want. I’ve always felt really uncomfortable about dating someone at work and haven’t considered it in a really long time.

  158.  #158Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Sophie – it’s all good, though, because a lot of times our thoughts and emotions DON’T make sense, and it feels vulnerable to admit them and see in the light of day that they don’t. It’s for YOU to learn about and experience YOU, not try to keep or impress a guy and get a relationship out of it.

    Also – if you are in the states, you can get a Google voice number that can forward to your smartphone, and you can get an app to make calls or text from that number from your phone. If you somehow get a creepy creeper, you can disable and ditch the number, and get a new one.

  159.  #159Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Thank you Beloved – mostly what I’m trying to do with these is not keep, or impress any of them ha ha, but wanting them to go away but yes i’m practicing with expressing those types of ambivalent feelings with them and seeing how that goes down…quite well so far actually…I need it maybe as an exploration of my ambivalence – particularly around nice or available one’s…I just don’t feel attracted to any of them in their pictures 🙁 or they don’t make me laugh, or conversation is laborious. The thought of meeting someone I don’t find attractive freaks me out but maybe I need practice there too, I am very good at shutting right down when I want someone to go away. I’m not in the US (though that sounds like a really good idea!)

  160.  #160Sophie on May 17, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Beloved – I like that also – the validation that a lot of the time our feelings don’t make sense – i’m going to value that one when I try and honour my non-sensical feelings in words to men

  161.  #161Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Sophie – there is a comedian named Mike Birbiglia who has a video out (I’m pretty sure the whole thing is on YouTube) called “My girlfriend’s boyfriend”. He talks about his ex gf, and his current wife, and again and again he brings up how she would just say, “it’s how I feel.”
    He told her how much he hated and didn’t believe in marriage, on and on. She said, “well, if you ever DID want to get married, I would marry you.”
    He said…”WHYYYY????
    She said, “It’s just how I feel.”

    And it’s so great, because he has all of these antics that just show…how you just can’t argue with that 🙂
    He’s married to her, I think maybe 8 years now.

    Google voice is available elsewhere, it just isn’t free, but from what I understand, it costs less than local rates in a lot of countries, so might still be worth checking out.

    I’m looking forward to hearing about what you discover in your dating adventures 🙂 Ambivalence is a bugger….go away a little closer, haha 🙂

  162.  #162Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Mandy – it sounds like you are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. I feel confused that you think a guy with a girlfriend who is telling you what you want to hear is somehow relationship material.
    What do you think he is telling her? What do you think he is NOT telling you about his relationship and how he treats her?
    He’s appealing to your need to feel special, to feel like an exception, the need for validation.

    And…I’m giggling because, I know you, just like the rest of us, are going to do what you want to do 🙂

  163.  #163Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    I feel so talkative today – amazing what happens when I get a little attention and closeness (earlier today with my friend at church).

    Labbit – I’ve been meaning to tell you how much I appreciate your voice here. Everything I read of yours feels like…a soft mossy misty forest rain.

  164.  #164Mandy on May 17, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    I feel upset, I feel like lots of people are trying to sway me one way or the other with anything I say about ideas for myself. J is great at that. Every idea I come up with he shoots down.

    Or when I have a day where I can’t get help with something, I feel so frustrated and am not sure how to take it. Personally or just angrily, lol.

    I do feel like I am a genuinely honest person with not many walls up, who isn’t interested in manipulating anyone. When people are interested in manipulation or toxic they seem to want to infect me with their toxicity. Know what I mean? I think it’s awful.
    Some people just like to stir the shit. I try to avoid them at all costs. I realize J is like that sometimes. I am starting to REALLY want him to be gone, everyone.

    I want him to move out more and more. I can’t stand trying to sleep when he snores and takes up the whole bed and isn’t moveable…I can’t stand his negativity…can’t stand the cigarette butts outside on the porch making it look like a trashy place…can’t stand how he tells me he thinks I’ll never make it out of my home city…I can’t stand how much he drinks…I can’t stand how cheap he is…I can’t stand how he won’t get help with his teeth or drinking or his sexual issues…I can’t stand how he won’t take care of himself and I’m just not seeing enough good in this to outweigh the bad. It’s pretty awful here. I need a man, not a man-child. I am not his mother. So frustrated, ladies…SO frustrated. It’s like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. He’s so lazy.

    Just need to get the strength to say hey, I’m done here…

  165.  #165Mandy on May 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    So okay, putting two and two together…

    I feel strapped to J and I don’t like it anymore. So I can use this visualization very well.

    I went out yesterday and had a day to myself. Thing is, when I came home, I came home to a butt-hurt bf. That sucked. So I feel angry today.

    I think he wants a show of love, but seriously, how can I do that when I’m nothing but disappointed and unhappy with him? This is the way it’s been. He demands a show of love like a kid and I give it to him just like he was whining for cookies. I suppose if I put up a boundary now he’ll feel like I’m closing off and he’ll just lose it.

  166.  #166Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    I was JUST thinking about talking to TG about moving some stuff around downstairs so I can do yoga…I went downstairs and lo and behold, he took some of the bulky furniture out and replaced it and now there’s plenty of room.

    I feel amazed at how many synchronicities and nearly instant manifestations I’ve experienced in the past few weeks.

    Gonna hit the trails and work off some of this happy manic energy !

    Happythankyoumoreplease! ! (I love that is in my autocorrect!)

  167.  #167Femininewoman on May 17, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    Mandy you are so worthy of so much more.

  168.  #168Kim on May 17, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    141 Thank you FW, that means a lot! ❤️

  169.  #169RileyTheOwl on May 17, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Well I just had the most interesting and weird and amazing of nights with a friend. 🙂

  170.  #170Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    Mandy – also, you keep referring to the girlfriend of this other guy as your “friend”. I feel confused as to what you feel friendship is, then, if you feel comfortable letting her boyfriend chat you up behind her back, and are encouraging and receptive to his attention.

    Am I misunderstanding the situation? Does the girlfriend know what’s going on?

  171.  #171Zia on May 17, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    Sangelina – finally had a moment to read your story and loved it. Thank you for sharing. Sounds very similar to mine, where I came to Rori looking for a way to win back the guy I’d just broken up with (which I recognized after was a toxic relationship but I needed drama). Spent a year doing the Rori tools and practicing and then met the guy I am now engaged to (he proposed just after a year!). Sometimes we need drama in relationships and that’s ok – but there comes a point where we decide enough is enough… and that’s when the magic happens 🙂

  172.  #172Zia on May 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Lovergirl – you and S fulfill a need in each other right now. And that’s ok. But once you are ready to start wanting more – you’ll be ready to do the work on yourself… .and for that to happen you have to be ready to want the RELATIONSHIP you want, not fear that any changes you make will mean you lose him. Your fear of losing HIM is what is standing in your way. There is more out there, and all you need to do is decide to take steps to go on your journey for yourself, without fear of losing him. If you go on your journey and you lose him – it will be because you have decided you deserve more from someone willing to give it to you. And when that happens, it will be ok, trust me. If you go on your journey and he’s right there with you changing and adapting and pursuing, he will be amazed at your changes and will step up and give you what you deserve. But right now I sense that you have too much fear around losing HIM to do what you need to do. And again, that’s ok – we’ve all been there. Hugs. One day it will be enough and we’ll all be right here cheering you on as you take that next step, just as we’re right here cheering you on at every step you’ve taken so far on this journey.

    No one here is saying S is a bad guy – we’re just know that a relationship that is free of drama, insecurity and anxiety is possible. You feel that he loves you – and no one is disputing that. But all we are saying that it is possible to feel loved by someone but still feel anxious and insecure about them leaving you, and it is also possible to feel loved by someone and feel safe and secure and KNOW that they’re not going anywhere. Up to you to decide which you want 🙂

  173.  #173Zia on May 17, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    The biggest thing I learned from Rori is to go after the relationship I want, not any one specific man. And it changed the way I dated, because I was never invested. I was just constantly in the question, and being in touch with my feelings.

    “Does this feel good?” Yes/No. Yes – keep going. “He’s not really my type, hmmm. But I feel good around him” keep going. And I tell you what, that attraction grew and grew and grew the more I was able to be myself around him, feel good around him, and know that me being myself was enough for him. And I never had that in a relationship before.

    Follow your feelings!

  174.  #174Linda on May 17, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Zia that was on point for everybody!!! How beautifully put.

  175.  #175Labbit on May 17, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Yay! Zia!!! Love what you had to say in your last three comments, so well put! And I agree with Linda, a good pep talk for everyone. 🙂

  176.  #176Labbit on May 17, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    I’ve been pouring a lot of love on myself this weekend, or trying to at least. I had to set a boundary with Tender around living together…and it was very hard for me. Standing up for myself wakes up a lot of my insecurities about not being enough…fears of losing him if I stand up for myself (because this somehow translates in my mind as being a bitch), and this harsh standard I set for myself about having to do relationship ‘right.’

    Our conversation went OK. I’d prepped a short script, practiced it many times over, and yet when I actually talked to him, in my hesitation to have the conversation at all I ended up defaulting back to a lot of words I DIDN’T want to use…nothing terrible or mean, just more saying things from a place of insecurity rather than love and confidence in myself, in him, in us.

    I’d say Tender’s reaction was flat. I think he was somewhat non-plussed, but he could tell I was having a hard time even speaking about it. He tried asking me a few questions to help figure out exactly where my boundary about us living together before engagement lies…but I don’t even know myself, which made the conversation doubly hard. I wish I’d just said that I didn’t know! Instead I kept trying to answer and explain. And the conversation kind of ended without resolution, perhaps with unnecessary frustration in both of us.

    Despite that, I feel OK in a way. I’m proud of myself for being vulnerable, opening up and trying, even if things came out way more garbled than I would have liked. It gives me something to learn from for next time. In the past I would have spent weeks beating myself up for not saying it right, not doing it right, not being perfect…but I actually feel OK right now, especially since the conversation was calm with no pointing fingers or arguing or saying mean things. I feel a little more human for my imperfections if that makes any sense. I feel relieved that I can do it wrong and still be OK in the relationship.

    Tender’s been warm and present through it all. He seems to be waiting patiently for me to figure out what exactly it is that I want to say…and that helps me feel calm. It makes me feel good about the times in the past when I’ve used patience even when I wanted to explode with him. It’s a lovely thing to feel space without distance, if that makes any sense.

  177.  #177Beloved on May 17, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    I just had a great peer counseling session, where I got to some deep feelings of feeling ugly and self-hate, in my heart, and cried them out in deep presence.

    So, I decided to get more information on self-hatred and found this interesting read:

    Healing Self-Hate
    (The entire article is at

    ….”The antidote to self-hate is not self-love. You cannot simply choose self-love. This is not a true understanding of the workings of the soul. Change by choice only happens in the mind and spirit. We cannot just jump to self-acceptance. No matter how much you change your mind or beliefs or attitudes, you will still have the backlog hidden in your attic, and that will sabotage your life no matter how blind you try to be to it.

    The pain held in the unconscious lives on until it is given expression in the way IT needs to express. Emotional essence needs to express in emotional ways. That is why we say that Tool 2: Crying is the most important of our healing tools.

    Self-love is not the antidote. It is the RESULT, the evolutionary landing point, that comes naturally after healing has taken place. And it cannot be forced by mind’s decisions.

    However, the mind *does* have an important role to play in the healing of self-hate. As with forgiveness, rage, and other difficult healings, we must set an intention to heal, and that begins in the mind or spirit. When you set the intention to love yourself you are purposely and consciously setting the stage for change. That doesn’t mean painting over the surface with false self-love or phony self-lessness. It means stating a desire and intention . .. and then going deeply into the feelings under the surface and allowing them to cry all the way to healing.

    Mind holds the intent for self-love, and that includes love for all the parts of the self. That means holding space for the feelings to express, as much as they need to, as long as they need to, and as deeply as they need to. Mind listens. Mind accepts. Mind waits for the feelings to shift and change all by themselves. Mind does not dictate when this will happen, or how long it will take. Mind just holds the space for it to happen. As the stage manager, Mind / Consciousness sets the tone, the lights, the colors. And then steps back and allows feelings to enter the stage to share their pain and experiences and memories. “…

    …”We know, instinctively, that if we fall headlong into the feelings underlying the self-hate pattern, we’ll eventually hit a place that says “I don’t deserve to live”, which equates at the root level to “DIE DIE DIE”. Our survival fear says if we touch those feelings, we will actually begin to die, either passively or actively. So our survival instinct kicks in to stay far away from the self-hate feelings, and actually assists the patterns in suppressing the real feelings.

    This is especially true for yang energy people. The feelings of giving up / going down / death /dying are entirely unacceptable to the yang energy. These feelings go against their very nature. Many yang polarized people have pushed the yin essence holding self-hate out of themselves to the point where it has fragmented and they are no longer aware of feeling hopeless or self-hating. They may then turn and feel superior toward those who are on self-destructive paths or stuck in self-hating ruts. ”

    …”t may not be as easy as 1-2-3. There may be a long history of the external hatred intertwining with your own self-hate, and the unraveling may take some time and need to go in baby-step stages. You may have an unconscious desire to NOT release this hatred because – much like touching a deeply embedded splinter – jostling the place where it is held within means feeling the pain of the wound. Following a release of some of the hatred, you may find yourself flooded with your own pain and needing to cry shame and horror and heartbreak and so on. Only when you’ve finished crying your own wound will you actually feel some relief of having that DarkDeath-hatred removed.”…

    There is a LOT more, that I feel very interested in and feels especially timely for me because what brought it up is some negative behaviors I’ve been acting out that were pointing to something below the surface.

    It feels good to feel ready to be in love again. 🙂

    I re-enabled my online dating profiles, and though I’ve gotten only two responses, both of them are so much higher quality than anything I’ve gotten in the past couple of years that I feel like…something wonderful is on the horizon.

  178.  #178Lovergirl on May 17, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    Before I address any comments to me, I just want to share that I had a really wonderful day today with S. Regardless of how anyone else views our relationship, it makes ME happy to spend time with him. I’m not really sure I’m in a place where I am ready for the type of relationship that some are saying I should be aiming for.

    Today is S’s birthday. I wished him a happy bday via text and he called and asked me out to lunch. I couldn’t come right away but said I’d be able to in a couple of hours and that I had an ice cream cake I made for him the night before.

    I also brought him some coconut oil because he has been talking about how his head is breaking out with razor burn all of a sudden (he shaves his head and he has all these bumps that weren’t there before). I figure coconut oil helps just about anything skin related.

    Anyway, he took me out to eat a mid day meal at a lovely restaurant in a high end shopping district. We ate on the patio and I had a couple of Cosmos. He paid for it all. We wandered around a bit and went in a shaving store where we talked to the guy about razor burn and he bought some expensive things to help.

    We went home to his apartment and I helped him rub coconut oil on his head, lol. Then he took a shower and we had sex. He wore a condom (first time ever with me). It kind of sucks because he has a hard time orgasming with a condom on but it was still fun. He was very affectionate.

    Afterwards he wanted to cuddle on the couch and watch a movie. He had asked what movies I saw recently and commented on the Chicago guy’s lack of picking out things that I would like (very true, he wants to watch things I am not interested in most of the time). So he picked a movie (The Rebound) that he has seen before but thought I would enjoy.

    We ate ice cream cake and lay down together to watch the movie. He was spooning behind me cuddling and kissing on me and being sweet. When I left it was dark so he walked me to my vehicle.

    When I got home I texted him a thank you and said I hoped he had a good birthday. His response was “It turned out to be a very good birthday indeed! I got to spend the day with someone I like and care about (and who I know cares about me too). It was fun and relaxing. Thanks for the cake and the coconut oil and being there. 🙂 “

  179.  #179Millie on May 17, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    Mandy 154–

    While I am not here to preach anything or discuss beliefs–there is one thing that Mechanic has shared with me from his religion that I find interesting. It’s called the tonal scale–and on this scale based on a person’ tone, word choice, and overall attitude, you can determine their attitude towards life. Are they someone who enjoys life? Who laughs? Who takes charge? Are they unpredictable? Can you trust them? I find it super interesting although I’m not too familiar with it. When I read your post though, I though wow this man is really low on the tonal scale. He seems apathetic towards his own life and his putting yours down is a reflection of how he feels towards himself. His not taking care of himself physically, his not taking care of the environment around him (the cig butts), his unwillingness to engage in life (laziness) is all a reelection of how he feels inside, towards himself. His level of engagement and care is poor. If we are sirens, loving ourselves, doing activities that make us happy, getting our hair and nails done, taking pleasure in our bodies and how we feel–don’t we deserve a man who treats himself in that same manner? A male equivalent–the strongest sailor out at sea, the captain of the ship, who seeks adventure, to live beyond existing–beyond surviving. He confidently conquers his Siren, he doesn’t sit below deck, letting his teeth rot, his body and health fall by the wayside, he doesn’t insult his siren out of spite for his own shortcomings. At least this is what I envision…for all of us. If we are willing to do this work–we need a man who is willing to do his too.

  180.  #180Millie on May 17, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    Hi Liquid Light!!

    Regarding your post 147– your work party sounded so fun!! I love hearing about your flirting adventure! I’ve messed around with people at work/in proximity before and to be honest it did disrupt my performance at work and did make the environment feel uncomfortable. In hindsight–I want my job to be my first priority while I’m at work and I think getting involved with someone at work can be very distracting and of course if it doesn’t end well it can feel pretty weird. I think it also depends on how much contact you have with him day to day. If he works in a completely different division and his job does not affect yours directly, it could be fine, but if you work very close in proximity–there could be potential discomfort. Flirting is flirting, but it’s up to you if he wants to take it to another level..whether you feel it’s worth it.

  181.  #181Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Wow… that sounds so fun
    the happy hour you planned!

    I agree… it is always scary to start a connection with someone at work…
    I’m like you … I always worry…
    What happens if this doesn’t work out! ;0|

  182.  #182Millie on May 17, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    ((Azure))– sorry to hear that you had to let Spirit go–loss is always challenging to deal with and that space that exists when a person is no longer there to fill it…When you realize they aren’t the right person. You are so strong! I’m sure this decision will only lead to better men and roads ahead! Cheers to new beginnings, to honoring the past, to honoring the future, and most importantly, honoring ourselves!

  183.  #183Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Beloved #167
    this was so helpful to read…
    thank you for posting!

    Glad to hear you feel adventurous and ready to put your toes in the water with online dating and that the caliber of men has VAsTLY improved…
    You sooo deserve that!

  184.  #184Millie on May 17, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    Today I feel like I’m getting my old self back. And not the “old self” who chased and pined after men, the old self who pursued her dreams, who did what she loved, who felt resistant to give herself until a man showed her he was worth it. After reading about Labbit’s friend, I decided to make a list of Healthy things I can do for myself and unhealthy things I’ve been doing. Wonderfully my healthy column was much longer!!!

    My “Unhealthy list”:
    -Not eating
    -Choosing to be sad
    -Letting my plants die
    -Letting my apt and car stay messy/dirty
    -talking about him
    -Beating myself up

    “Healthy List”:
    -Horse Back riding
    -the beach
    -cleaning my cars
    -decorating my space
    -spending time with friends
    -taking our dog on field trips
    -taking care of my plants
    -and more… but you get the idea.

    So I’m trying to do less of the things on the unhealthy list and replace them with things on the healthy list.
    Today I went riding and spent the day there-which I love doing!! Then I went shopping with my girl friend and picked out some new things for my place, came home, put them together and already my space feels better, more calm and peaceful and new.

    Oh–and I went on a date last night!! He was very excited to meet me and was very sweet on the date–but I think he’s too young for me as he still lives with his mom and I wasn’t very attracted to him although he was very nice and clearly is interested in me. I thought going on a date with someone else would feel awful–but it didn’t!! It actually felt good!! And he wanted to hang out longer, but after the experiences I’ve had, I really want to pump the brakes and slow things down. I don’t want to give too much up front, I want to choose how I spend my time wisely. As much as I want a relationship, I don’t need one…and there’s a lot of things I want to do differently going forward–mainly slowing things down. I guess I want to avoid what happened with M, the amazingness of it and the sudden disappearance, but I guess I can’t. I just know that I don’t feel in a place where I can jump into something. I feel stronger and smarter–and out of this guy’s league, but he was nice so I’ll probably see him again…and hopefully go on more dates this week!

  185.  #185Indigo on May 17, 2015 at 10:36 pm

    (((Azure Blu)))

    I too am sorry that things ended the way they did with Spirit, and I am sending you some more siren support. I am with you on feeling like you need to formally end it with a guy before moving on to dating others. I also do this, and I do it for ME, and to a lesser extent him. For me, it is about releasing myself from a relationship or semi-commitment, about maintaining my integrity so that I can move forward cleanly. It feels symbolic.

    I wish you much luck and love x

  186.  #186Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    thank you for your huggs and warm caring words!!

    Glad to hear you are trying to open your heart to Cding!!!
    Much luck! :-))

  187.  #187Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    Ahhh… thank you for those huggs and encouraging words…
    Yes, it does help me move forward “cleanly”

  188.  #188Azure Blu on May 17, 2015 at 11:07 pm

    Millie #172
    Thank you so much for your lovely Siren words!!!
    I especailly like what you wrote here.
    “to honoring the past, to honoring the future, and most importantly, honoring ourselves!”
    I do want to honor the time Spirit and I had together…
    and then realease it and let it goo…
    When I can do that I know I am getting closer to letting him go out of my heart!!

  189.  #189Indigo on May 17, 2015 at 11:26 pm


    I hope you do not feel judged or bullied on here into doing something that others may feel is good for you, but you do not feel in agreement. I know the sirens here are wonderful, caring women and that they are giving out of the store of their own wisdom, and it is a precious gift. Sometimes, however, it can feel like it doesn’t quite match up with the reality as you experience it, and that is ok.

    Your day with S sounds really lovely, and if I were you, I would not want to give that up either with someone you feel so close to.

    As for me, I spent a lovely night with D on Friday night, then on Saturday he had to work the whole day, so he kissed me on Saturday morning and said he’d contact me on Sunday night, which he did. Much like what Beloved was describing in that article, I’ve been going through a lot of healing, a lot of unwinding, a lot of things are shifting inside me for the better, but it feels overwhelming. I’ve been keeping to myself – not deliberately, it’s just been happening. And I’ve been experiencing a lot of loneliness. On Saturday evening, my dad – whom I have been estranged from – phoned me and wanted to have coffee. He has been making more of an effort recently. So I agreed. Honestly it felt good to have someone whom I know loves me, in his own way, even if he has been very imperfect as a father, reach out to me. And you know, for the first time in years and years, spending time with my dad felt quite good.

    I think it’s everything that’s been happening, but when I saw D last night I felt SO vulnerable. Even though he’s been “there”, I haven’t felt him THERE with me. It was like these waters making me feel frustrated and lonely and abandoned, but also giving me great strength. All the feelings rushing up made me feel warm and full of feeling and real, rather than out of control. And I let him see all of it. Not crying or being out of control or anything, just FEELING all of it and trying to explain it as best I could (this is where I feel you, Labbit, because I also had this beautiful script planned out beforehand, and I didn’t exactly stick to it, a whole lot of things tumbled out that I didn’t exactly mean to say – also, nothing nasty, just a bit messier than I had intended). I could see D felt a bit frustrated, and defensive at first, feeling like maybe he was being criticised or he wasn’t making me happy… and then something happened. Where he melted and softened a bit and I could see he could see it wasn’t about me attacking him, but just a bid for closeness, and he saw it from my point of view.

    And he took me in his arms and wrapped me up and held me close, and I felt so safe. And relieved. AND, you may remember I have spoken on here before about me and D not attending parties together and the background to that. Well, we are throwing our first party together at his house this weekend 🙂

  190.  #190Mandy on May 18, 2015 at 4:05 am

    Millie – J – SO LOW I CANT STAND IT.

    G is HIGH on the scale. totally takes charge takes care of himself and his son.

    That’s what I’m seeing!

    You are so perceptive. 🙂

  191.  #191Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 4:30 am

    How lovely that your Dad reached out and wanted to spend time with you!!!
    I feel happy for you…
    It would have meant the world to me if my father had tried that…

    Your time with D sounds so moving…
    that you shared with him your tender vulnerability
    You did it in such a Siren way that he was able to see
    you weren’t attacking him!!!
    I feel safe and warm reading it!!!

  192.  #192Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 4:41 am

    This is so helpful to me to read how you realized
    YOU were feeling vulnerable and naked
    “Even though he’s been “there”,
    I haven’t felt him THERE with me.
    It was like these waters making me feel frustrated
    and lonely and abandoned,
    but also giving me great strength.
    All the feelings rushing up
    made me feel warm and full of feeling and real,
    rather than out of control.
    And I let him see all of it.
    Not crying or being out of control or anything,
    just FEELING all of it
    and trying to explain it as best I could”

    I read one of your earlier posts (that I had archived for me) and I see that YOU ARE going thru some amazing transforming!!!
    Softly, gently unfolding into YOUR LIGHT!!
    Mmmmmm… so wonderful to read!

    I can see if I had approached Spirit with
    More of MY feelings of feeling vulnerable and abandoned, naked and needy last Sat..
    Instead of pushing it ON him
    I imagine things would have gone much better…

    BUT I am NOT changing my mind…
    There are Many more issues that had not/could not change…
    I will continue my Siren journey and sharing my feelings with NEW CDs…

    hugggs to you Indigo… YOUR light is shining brightly here on Siren Island!!!

  193.  #193Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 4:53 am

    {{{Labbit}}} #166

    How brave and vulnerable you are here…
    Sharing with us your struggle with perfection…
    Being confused with exactly where you do stand…
    It is so remarkable how you and Tender worked through your sharing…
    It was good to read you felt proud of YOURSELF!!!
    for trying and guiding a difficult conversation
    thru calm waters!!!

    “It makes me feel good about the times in the past
    when I’ve used patience
    even when I wanted to explode with him.
    It’s a lovely thing to feel space
    without distance”
    Yes… I think I do understand what you are saying here.

  194.  #194Victoria on May 18, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Dear Azure,
    I have been reading through the comments, and I see you decided to break up with Spirit.
    I so hoped he would step up, he would come around, I so like happy endings, and this one, while not necessarily unhappy is very discouraging to me.
    I do not understand why this is possible…

  195.  #195Tereana on May 18, 2015 at 5:43 am

    Labbitt 110 – that is SO COOL! I love it!!

  196.  #196Tereana on May 18, 2015 at 5:56 am

    Hi Ladies. Sirens. Beautifuls.

    I’ve got some new information. I got an unexpected gift – the truth from V. The reason he hasn’t been calling me is that he was, in his words, “tense she sad.” He was apparently wrestling with the decision of whether or not to stay in India to take care of his parents. V and I are close in age, but his parents are more than 10 years older than mine. They are having some health problems. And even though V said that he “can’t say no” to them, I think it’s really the case that he doesn’t want to leave them alone. He’s worried about them.

    I asked if he told them about me. He said no, because he didn’t want them to feel afraid he would leave, or guilty that he would stay and not be able to see me. So he’s carrying the weight of everything himself, is how it seems. My personal opinion is that, if I were his parents, I’d want to know. But I’m not his parents. And I’m not him. And it’s his decision to make.

    He did say, in the conversation that he wants to marry me, and that’s why he feels so sad. He feels he has to choose between them and me. And of course they are his family. I’d like to think my feminine beacon is so strong he’d come for me across the ocean regardless, but I know there are many factors, and I can’t argue with the fact that his parents need his help. So there’s nothing for me to really “do” except to be kind and understanding, and to reflect his decision.

    And I know that maybe circular dating is in order here. But at some point, I feel like, for me, commitment has to take precedence. Not to commit to something that is not “real.” But I realized that, when I want to love someone, I want to love only that person. Looking at other people is very tempting. But dating is superficial. I’m not really interested in superficial. And I don’t even want to manipulate the Universe into giving me what I want. I just want to want what I want. I want to be open to the truth, open to the moment, and make bold decisions that truly reflect the depth of who I am and the kind of experience of life that I really want

  197.  #197Tereana on May 18, 2015 at 5:58 am

    *tense and sad

  198.  #198Femininewoman on May 18, 2015 at 7:27 am

    Azure I hope you find some wisdom in Rori’s new blog post.

  199.  #199Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 7:28 am

    Indigo 179-

    Thank you. I do feel misunderstood about S because what makes ME happy, definitely isn’t for everyone. I don’t want to give him up. I love him, I feel loved, I feel good with him. Giving that up for the idea that there might be something out there that is better, doesn’t feel good to me, especially when I am free to date and look all I want for other men AND still have this.

    I feel excited for you, throwing a party with D!! 🙂 From what you have said before about him not inviting you and something else with a party in the past that didn’t go well, that sounds really big!! Being held in his arms and having his understanding sounds like it felt really great too.

    I’m so glad you got to spend time with your father. My dad, failed me in so many ways, but 6 months after he died I got a letter from him. My sister found it when she was going through his stuff and sent it to me. In it, he talked about how much he loved me and had never had the chance to show me in the ways he wanted to. It was both heartbreaking and healing at the same time. Sometimes we don’t really know what is going through a man’s head and heart because they keep it to themselves.

  200.  #200Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 7:40 am

    Kim 82-

    See, I don’t feel I am accepting or getting “crumbs” though it may appear that way to women who are in a different place in their life or want something different. I feel, for the most part, that I am getting exactly what I want, other than the *title* of *relationship*. If I take away any thoughts of what will happen in the future, really I am quite happy with S and what is NOW.

    To me, yes, it matters that I feel loved. It may not make a difference for what happens in the future but it is something that I treasure right now. I don’t think a relationship with a man is what is going to define me getting my life together and being a good role model for my kids. Those are things I have to work on separately. I am trying to do that too.

  201.  #201Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 7:54 am

    Sangelina 95-

    I get your points and that S could be doing all those things. Yet, I didn’t feel at all bothered that he wasn’t. I was with my kids, feeling sluggish (still on my period) and not like going out anyway. He went by himself to the casino and wasn’t exactly living it up. He texted because he had driven through a terrible storm. I would say he was probably scared and I was the first person he thought of that he knew would care.

    There were flash flood warnings later coming through on my phone and I texted to make sure he was okay (the casinos are on a big river). He was already at home safe (at 11 pm).

    I’m just not sure I WANT a guy to want me with him every spare second of his time. I had that with my ex husband, but I regret that we didn’t do more things separately, really. I get sooo annoyed when guys get needy and clingy, like Chicago sometimes acts, and like they want to be around me alllll the time and never do their own thing.

  202.  #202Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 7:56 am

    Sangelina 95-

    I get your points and that S could be doing all those things. Yet, I didn’t feel at all bothered that he wasn’t. I was with my kids, feeling sluggish (still on my period) and not like going out anyway. He went by himself to the casin0 (is casin0 a bad word on here?? lol- seems to keep my posts from showing up) and wasn’t exactly living it up. He texted because he had driven through a terrible storm. I would say he was probably scared and I was the first person he thought of that he knew would care.

    There were flash flood warnings later coming through on my phone and I texted to make sure he was okay (the casin0s are on a big river). He was already at home safe (at 11 pm).

    I’m just not sure I WANT a guy to want me with him every spare second of his time. I had that with my ex husband, but I regret that we didn’t do more things separately, really. I get sooo annoyed when guys get needy and clingy, like Chicago sometimes acts, and like they want to be around me alllll the time and never do their own thing.

  203.  #203Kim on May 18, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Lovergirl, sure, we are all happy with crumbs at various stages of our lives…until the next time the guy walks away or tells you about other women he dates or does something else hurtful. A relationship is not just a title, it is a commitment too, and we have no commitment with a man who just likes our company to make him feel good and things are not progressing. If you are happy about it, fine, but it seemed that you were pretty unhappy before…..and without being judgmental, risking pregnancy and bringing another child into a world with a man who has no intentions to even have a relationship with me, secretly hoping that this would bind him to me….I have no words for that, honestly.
    Each to their own.

  204.  #204Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Azure Blu 181,

    Thank you so much for your warm and caring words. It DID mean the world to me that my dad reached out. He was so distant for sooooooo long, I had pretty much given up hope to be honest. I’m not anticipating a fundamental change in him as a person, but I did feel his trying to be caring, and that is good, I think.

    Thank you so much also for your kind words about how I handled things with D – it has taken a long time for us to get to this point, lots of unwinding of old patterns and breaking down of defence mechanisms on both our parts, and last night I really had to look at it and think that that was good also. I’m glad it helped you.

    Thank you also for the hugs sweet siren 🙂 x

  205.  #205Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 8:21 am


    Thank you for your kind words. I am glad you got to have a certain amount of peace with your dad in the end – hearing that they loved us, despite everything that happened, DOES mean something. In my case my parents divorced when I was very little, so I didn’t see that much of my dad anyway. Although I somehow knew my dad loved me, he had a funny way of showing it – he wouldn’t pay maintenance unless he was forced, never bought us Christmas or birthday presents, was critical and quick tempered and nothing my brother or I did was ever good enough, even though we were both high achievers. He also re-married a second and third time – nasty women who resented us. His third wife, whom he is still married to, was actually quite pathological and very abusive. Yet he stood by her throughout and ruthlessly criticised MY treatment of her (I was a child). Anyway, when I was old enough, I put in proper safe boundaries and forgave them, and after that followed a long period of numbness where I felt beyond believing or caring overly much whether our relationship would ever heal in any way. Now finally I think I’m ready to let tiny rays of sunlight in.

  206.  #206Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 8:24 am


    I wasn’t “secretly hoping” to bind him to me through pregnancy. I am quite relieved not to be pregnant. However, if I was, I would look on the bright side. Again, I feel misunderstood, but I suppose being honest about my mixed feelings is what caused that. I could never not feel some happiness at being pregnant.

  207.  #207Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 8:30 am

    thank you darling Siren,,,
    I was SOOOO hoping for a happy middle/ending also with Spirit!!!

    BUT the 2 months of practicing my Siren tools…
    showed me
    He’s NOT wrong… it’s just different from what *I* want!!

    Who knows… maybe he is bypolar (like my dad)
    He lost his son (hit by a truck riding his bike)
    20 years ago and his brother and his mom
    all in the same year…
    He may have never really processed all of that..

    BUT THAT is NONE of MY business,,,

    I have scheduled 3 free sessions with Rori’s new coaches to help me process and stay away from Spirit!

  208.  #208Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 8:34 am

    {{{{Indigo}}} #193
    Wow… thank you for sharing this part of your childhood…
    You are truly a Siren to even let this man (dad)
    even see you…
    BUT I have found, when i do let a family member make the connection,,, I can then decide if it’s in my best interest to let my boundaries down a little at a time….
    OR NOT…

  209.  #209Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 9:07 am

    Thanks Azure Blu.

    For a long time I felt it was NOT in my best interests – even though he wanted to connect with me, my stepmother was always hovering in the background, always on the scene somehow… I do NOT trust her at all. And then there were these overtones of criticism. I made it abundantly clear to my dad I had NO use for either my stepmother or any criticism of any kind whatsoever in my life. And so I was able to, when I was ready, reconnect with him on my terms. It is still extremely tentative and guarded on my part and always will be, but better than shutting him out completely I feel.

  210.  #210Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Sangelina 95/96-

    I see what you are saying. If, at some point, I feel that S is treating me sub- par, I will let him know how I feel and not accept it, like I did when he went to that swinger party the other week. I was uncomfortable at the time, with him sharing that with me. At different times in our relationship, it has been acceptable. We started out very casually and swinging, so my comfort level with him is different than it might be otherwise.

    There have been times where he texted that he was at the strip club getting a lap dance and wished it was from me. There was a time when he told me all about gangbangs or similar activities he was attending. It didn’t bother me, though I know it would many women.

    I am still having sex with other men. We aren’t committed. There is not reason, in my mind, to feel I am getting the short end of the stick. I do love him, I WOULD like more, but commitment would be a bonus, and not a necessity.

    I think maybe I just need to be more realistic with myself as to what I can expect from him. I let myself get hopeful because of various things that happened and were said, when really I may have no chance at any kind of future and just need to look at it from that perspective. Yes, it is hard to completely let go of that hope, but maybe that is all I need to do.

  211.  #211Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Also, about reassuring him about my relationship with Chicago, you are probably right that I shouldn’t have been doing that. I DON’T feel great about Chicago, but there is no reason to make S feel better about that. I do need to be more careful there.

    Perhaps I am entangled with S emotionally and would find something similar elsewhere. I don’t know. I just know I never HAVE found it and that a lot of men are freaked out by the number of kids I have. I may have NO hope with ANYONE until some of them are grown. In the meantime, I don’t want to be without sex and affection.

  212.  #212Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    You are doing great!!!
    We all hang onto the men who bring us the most support and pleasure…
    Doesn’t mean you’ll hang on forever (unless he changes)
    BUT it feels good to you right now…
    YOU ARE CDing other men…
    You have a realistic idea of what you do want…
    and what you ARE not ready for…
    You aren’t working for him anymore…

    You are growing as a Siren everyday…
    huggs my darling Siren…
    We are all here to listen and support YOU!!!
    Cause that is what you need!
    We all need!

  213.  #213Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Waterfall 106-

    I think if people could see the difference in real life, of how S treats me vs Chicago, they would pick S too. He shows more concern for me as a human being. Chicago may be doing the *right* things but his heart is clearly not in the right place.

    Chicago does not listen to me when I am talking to him. This disturbs me immensely, as I feel unheard and unimportant. I do not feel truly cared about.

    I can feel Chicago’s annoyance regarding me in several ways. He has criticized me for not enjoying certain things in the bedroom (S is always respectful of my boundaries). He laughed off my concerns about not wanting to see violent movies and still makes jokes about it. He actually LAUGHED when I told him about having a miscarriage, like that was somehow funny?

    He gets irritated when I need to spend time with my children instead of devoting it all to him, and I feel that is quite selfish and rude. I’d rather NOT have a guy want to see me constantly if it comes to that. They have to understand that I am not in a place where I can put a man first. So in some ways its not really fair for me to expect a man to put me at the forefront of his life either.

    I haven’t had a chance to write out much about things with Chicago, so maybe that’s why he seems to be a better option on here. In real life, no. Absolutely not.

    He was texting me yesterday while I was with S. He asked if I was on a date and started getting quite jealous and demanding, which I thought was really kind of out of place, considering I’ve made no commitment to HIM. He claimed we had discussed plans for Sunday night but I know that is a lie because I deliberately kept it open, knowing it was S’s Bday. I didn’t say who I was with and I don’t feel I owe him an explanation.

    The other night, he took me to a movie again. He insisted on seeing a movie of his choice, once again. It was dumb and he actually fell asleep and was snoring in the movie. He also was weird about buying snacks. He got himself a popcorn and a drink. He asked if I wanted anything and I said maybe some peanut M&Ms.

    He didn’t get me any and started in on me at the cash register, saying if I wanted something, I should have told him before. It was embarrassing. He criticized me for not speaking up or grabbing something for myself. I just said it’s okay, I’m fine.

    Apparently, as usual, he wasn’t listening when I spoke to him. He chided me for it again when we sat down to watch the movie, then gave me money and told me to go get myself something. He was like if you wanted something you should have said so. I said “I did” and he said then why didn’t you grab something? I guess he wants me to be demanding and rude, like he is.

  214.  #214Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    Beloved 107-

    I do feel like this is working for me. S doesn’t tell me frequently that I am not his girlfriend and not in a relationship, its only been when things got really intense that he felt the need to clarify.

    If nothing else, S is the best “free therapist” I have ever had. 🙂 He ENCOURAGES me to express myself with him and talk about deep issues and he doesn’t run away. Yes, he triggers me sometimes, but I have a lot of things that I need to work on.

  215.  #215Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    And it does make a difference that I *feel* loved by him. It makes all the difference in the world. He tells me all the time (and several times yesterday) that I’m beautiful, that he enjoys being with me, that he knows other men want me, he makes me feel GOOD.

  216.  #216Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    Beloved 108-

    I am working on learning to use Rori’s tools. I have been using more feeling messages and feel that they really *work* when I do! I could probably use them more, but I am making progress. I am trying to lean back more and I do feel that helps as well. I met Chicago as an attempt to circular date. Though he gets on my nerves in some ways, in others it has been good. I’m still working on meeting more men. In all things, I can continue to improve, but I do feel I am doing better.

    I’m sorry you didn’t get a good response when you expressed yourself on here. It can be frustrating and hurtful to pour out your heart and no one answers.

    I do have very strong feelings about S and maybe right now that IS what I need. I need to FEEL after shutting down and closing off my heart and feelings of pain and loneliness for so many long years of marriage. I’m tired of putting up a front and pretending to be okay, putting forth an image of someone who had it all together. I don’t want a relationship that doesn’t trigger me at all right now, because its not what I NEED.

  217.  #217Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Kim 114-

    I don’t feel “sad” or “stuck”. Not at all. I felt sad and stuck when I was married. Perhaps another long term commitment is not for me. As of now, I feel cared about and I feel free to do as I please.

  218.  #218Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Azure 116-

    Thank you for recognizing that. I feel proud of myself for getting as far as I am now. Few people would understand the emotional toil my marriage took on me. I spent years and years feeling unloved and emotionally alone. I feel MUCH better now, even if it is not everyone’s idea of “ideal”.

    I think S is a wonderful person. He isn’t trying to give me “crumbs” as some might believe. He is just trying to be real to HIS life, which is okay and understandable. I appreciate his honesty in an area where many men will be fakes, pretending to be okay with my kids when they are not, because they want sex and affection from me.

  219.  #219lovetodance on May 18, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    dear azure blu…

    i have been gone from the blog….here just irregularly regular…enough tho to read where you are….

    i loved the message to spirit…you didn’t blame him, you spoke your truth….so simple, so lovely and so profoud

    all this work, all this healing you have been doing…. feels all strengthening of your spiritual and emotional
    muscles to me…

    so good you have sessions scheduled…putting in place the support and care you need….wonderful self loving care!

    just keep walking your walk…seems to me you know more than ever YOUR worth and what YOU want and need..and how to keep loving yourself….keeping your eye on the prize….embracing the beauty of you!

    sending so much love to you !

  220.  #220lovetodance on May 18, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    working withself loving….facing feeling hearing the nasty voices….loving them….embracing them…

    pulling up difficult feelings and thoughts….wondering why certain men … don’t even seem to give me the time of day….and feeling bad about that…and wondering why do i play that scenario in my being, in my being…why do i make myself feel bad?

    what about the ones who naturally connect with me? why don’t i just play that chemical inside?

    that may not need an answer
    just awareness
    how do i want to feel? loved or unloved?
    good or bad?
    simple answer ….turning the big habitual boat around easier these days

  221.  #221lovetodance on May 18, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    astoundingly a man a obsessed and suffered over….reached out at a social function to me…i was testy…he didn’t crumble

    he apologized

    the ice was broken….i sent him a message the next day thanking him for the gesture….his courage…and told him it was healing and i felt happy about it…

    feels something deep got healed…i see myself tending to begin a bit of longing for him now…and i also have built a muscle, a knowingness because of the depth of the experience…that it is not healthy to let myself go there…
    importantly of all…i don’t want or need to

    i was blessed to have been reminded of what love, what feeling special and cherished by a man feels like..even tho this particular situation did not work out….he gave me the gift of reminding me what love feels like….
    what it doesn’t

  222.  #222Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 9:13 pm


    The more you write about Chicago, the more I feel like he is a man I would let go and not want to be with any more. I know I am not you, but the incident with the snacks at the movies just gave me the jibblies. That is not a way I ever want to feel with a man.

    You said here “I’m just not sure I WANT a guy to want me with him every spare second of his time. I had that with my ex husband, but I regret that we didn’t do more things separately, really. I get sooo annoyed when guys get needy and clingy, like Chicago sometimes acts, and like they want to be around me alllll the time and never do their own thing.”

    I feel the same way. D and I do our own thing a lot, and I LOVE that. I guess it’s in a way why I’ve gravitated towards a guy who was more quiet and independent, and it has its downsides. If you are looking for reassurance, this is not the guy who is going to give it to you in spades. BUT there are other huge perks which for me make up for this. No guy is perfect. You just have to decide what you can live with.

  223.  #223Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Zia 162/163-

    There are some anxieties and fears with S. I’m scared of him finding someone else that he would rather start a family and life with. It is very hard not to have that fear.

    I know theoretically its better to have a particular “relationship” in mind that you want. It’s just really hard for me to implement that in real life. It’s like where on earth would I find that with someone other than S? Who, in their right mind, really, seriously, wants a relationship with a woman with 5 children? I mean there might be some predatory types that do, or irresponsible men, but what decent man is looking for that?

  224.  #224Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Indigo 211-

    I was thinking about it last night and there is a big part of me that wants to just drop Chicago altogether. I’m turned off by him and I don’t really like him that much. Then, I was thinking, you know, I’ve really stopped expressing my feelings with him too and am letting him be this way.

    Maybe this is my opportunity to start standing up for myself more. I don’t really care if things end with him, at all, so I could just say what I am feeling and see how he reacts. Like, I am annoyed with his jealousy and should say something about that. I could have told him at the movies that it felt embarrassing to be criticized at the counter and that I felt like he was asking me to be demanding and rude. I could say it turns me off to be criticized about not liking certain things in bed.

    As far as S, it’s not perfect but there are so many things I love about being with him. I’m not ready to give him up. I think he’s wonderful. 🙂 I CAN express myself with him too and that feels really good.

  225.  #225Victoria on May 19, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Men in their 30s-40s, who have not had children are likely to be scared, but older men with grown up children might be ok. Older does not necessarily mean unattractive, so do not cross the option out.
    We alteady discussed this with you once, and you said that you really do not want to date men with children… and I think this is going to be difficult to find in your age group.

  226.  #226Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 9:22 am


    I agree it is a great plan to practice expressing your feelings with Chicago. I think we women have no idea how much we need the practice of expressing our so-called “negative” feelings without blaming, criticising or attacking. Of holding the space for our feelings while a man responds.

    This is something I have only started practising in the last 6 months or so, because I was too terrified before, and only recently feeling like I am starting to get it right.

  227.  #227Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Victoria 214-

    It is true that I am more worried about getting serious with a man who also has children. It could be very difficult to mesh personalities, and very overwhelming. Plus, you get someone like Chicago, who is a great dad to his own kid but would resent mine. There are a LOT of men like that. They are super judgmental of someone else’s kids but not their own, which is a huge fear of mine. I had HORRIBLE stepfathers. I don’t want that for my children.

    I have seen a couple of older men whose children were grown. Perhaps that would be a better option for me but those particular men didn’t work out either.

  228.  #228Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 9:32 am

    215 Indigo-

    Yes, that is going to be my goal starting today! I am supposed to see Chicago later. I’m not quite ready to stop seeing him, not because I like him that much but because his purpose is not fulfilled. He’s also competition for S, like someone pointed out. 😉 I really, really need to work on using my feeling messages with him.

    I can be very shy about that when I’m not close to someone. S has commented that I just “feel free to say whatever” to him and that is true. I have to be careful not to go the way of disrespect with it, but it is good to be able to express myself.

  229.  #229Femininewoman on May 19, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Hi lovetodance. It feels good to see you pop in and post. Yayy for reminders and for these men who come back to our shores.

  230.  #230Azure Blu on May 19, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    lovetodance #208
    Ohhhh… I was thinking about you the last couple of days
    AND here you are!!
    Ahhh… it was so encouraging to read that you liked what I said to Spirit!! Thank YOU
    So wonderful to read you are feeling that I am growing more emotional muscles and am looking more and more like a Siren… :-))

    Did you meet your ex at the weekend music event?
    I’m so glad you held your boundaries and didn’t
    give him a fake smile…
    But showed your feelings!!!

    did it feel like healing for you?

    Lots of coaches say we really can’t move forward
    until we are able to heal from our past loves…

  231.  #231Azure Blu on May 19, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    I would relish for days and weeks
    the fact that he acknowledged his wrongs
    and was able to apologize!!!
    THAT always feels good to me!

  232.  #232lovetodance on May 19, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    thanks for responding FW and Azure….

    yes i have been relishing…and working to hold my boundaries…and yet it is a slippery slope…

    and it was is healing for him to have approached and able to hear my anger….
    and not walk away or crumble….i did not say’ you did this or that…’
    i just made it clear that i didn’t feel good about how things had unfolded…

    oddly phenomenally enough i would not call him my ex …we had a non relationship and yet alot of energy went into it for 3 years and i would venture to say on both our parts…

    i have avoided him and worked hard to transcend…so when he approached it was a total surprise….

    i sent a private message to him the next day thanking him for crossing that bridge that it felt healing and i felt happy….

    he messaged back saying that he thought he saw a message from me but it vanished before he could read it….oh wow….mercury in retrograde?!
    so i resent it and added wondered if we could be friends…what did he think?

    now i am afraid i leaned too forward…i know this man can not offer me a love relationship…i am still attracted to him…but whether or not he is still in relationship with the other….i don’t feel he communicates well or that i could trust him….

    so i wonder what part of me engaged him here? what part could not leave well enough alone…or maybe i am being too hard on myself…
    maybe i could just love my impulses and see the health in offering friendship….could we? even with all the charge? could we be kind and respectful to each other and know we have been thro something together?

  233.  #233lovetodance on May 19, 2015 at 11:15 pm

    oh oh nasty voices welling up in me…. i am riffing riffing riffing riffing here…

    oh why did i reach out like that….i feel pathetic….why didn’t i just let it be?

    most likely if there was other stuff going on for me romantically i would not have responded like this….

    oh my….big sigh….i was doing well…now the addictive stuff is rearing its ugly head…

    i will do well to not go down this path…and yet i am looking for his response…how do i look and not look…what do i say to myself to really..really not care…

    and i feel i have given him some power that i rightfully have worked hard to garner for myself
    and yet

    i did not want this to be about power….i am practicing open hearted ness…softness…authenticity….and the part of me that wants to know that he is still attracted to me is there….and of course he is….

    oh gosh…i want to lean way back…i want to not care whether he responds or not..

    i see that i can go cold turkey well….i can erase now him….but all it takes is his presenting in live living color himself in front of me and i get invested….
    but no….
    not again…
    not again the trauma ridiculousness….
    i really believed i was asking for friendship…i believed myself
    but i am tricky….to myself

    a way of asking for more….oh oh ….i so need to watch myself
    i so need to catch myself
    i so need to circular date and i so dislike going online again…

    i need to practice practice practice feeling believing myself to be the prize….when i see other women …i see the beautiful delicious feminine women essence….and i want to always know that in me….man y times i do ….and i want to feel it most of the time…how delicious i am …just by being me and being a woman….

  234.  #234Lovetodance on May 19, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    It made me feel vulnerable To be nice to him
    It felt more powerful to be angry
    Now I feel like I have given too much again to someone who doesn’t deserve it …
    And yet
    The other voice says give him a chance to be more of a mensch. Maybe he has grown and changed too…
    And I know I am exploring here. A new way of being with attraction to a man who is not available to me…. Can I offer friendship and keep myself in check? Can I not obsess and can I accept the parameters ? Can I not need feeling validated by his attraction for me. There or not?
    Can I not wrangle for me and accept who he is and what he has to give and not look for or want more?
    Oh how good I would feel if I could grow this healthy and strong.
    Knowing my beauty. Leaving behind old habits …. Living more light heartedly and confident in my adorableness. Yes to that!
    I will practice not feeling shame or pathetic for opening For reaching back. However he takes it. I am a loving and warm woman. And that is beautiful and any man is lucky to have me offer that…..I am gonna take a warm bath and choose to see myself this way ….good night beautiful sirens…..

  235.  #235Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 6:36 am

    Ahhhh… lovely warm Siren,
    Stretching your beautiful, delicate wings of authenticity and vulnerability…

    My thoughts are: YOU are Very right to tread carefully
    around this man…
    RUN – LoveToD – RUN
    You know YOUR pattern here… taking up YOUR precious time, heart, feelings
    on an UNAVAILABLE man… Imaginary Land
    your comfortable feelings of
    second guessing YOURSELF
    What did *I* do wrong?
    feeling unworthy

    DO NOT answer him if he does contact YOU…
    OF course he would LOVE to have a beautiful, adorable woman like you for a friend… To boost HIS ego…
    YOU do not need HIM… He is offering YOU nothing

    I would book some sessions (they are free right now) with all of Rori’s wonderful NEW coaches…
    to help you move forward on YOUR path

    Have you read any of Evan Katz emails, blogs etc.
    He is Sooo good at giving courage
    helping with steps to take for being successful with online dating…

    In my opinion….
    You did such a great job
    and you LEARNED soo much about YOU
    the last time you were online dating…

    “life is too short to spend getting the short end of the relationship stick.”

    You are an amzing successful, beautiful, warm
    Of course it will take quite a bit of dating to find
    The RIGHT man for you…
    So get out there and Start LOOKING!

    Of course I am NOT supposed to offer ANY opinions…
    But I love and care about your amazing heart
    and want you to have a Forever relationship with YOU and a Mr. Right

  236.  #236Lovetodance on May 20, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Oh my gosh azure
    I know you are right on
    I do all that Over think. Second guess
    I just feel like I lost ground
    That is what’s bothering me now
    I will take your warm savvy siren advice
    I too had absent parents
    Who loved me as they could
    But weren’t there …. Working all the time
    My sis and I were the original latch key kids….
    So emotional un availability is so familiar and comfortable in some ways
    I don’t tolerate it in women friends
    I had a kind and loving father
    My mom loved by worry and kept her emotions quite in check…could be very dismissive
    And they worked allll the time
    I see this pattern
    I will run
    It will be hard not to respond if he does to my friendship request ….because I want to initiate a new pattern here with him and not just cut off like we both know how to do….
    I promise myself not to get Re-invested
    To love myself and take care of me first and foremost

    Thank you azure for your care and love

  237.  #237lovetodance on May 20, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    i am amazed and bewildered by my response to the Xman….just a simple approach after almost a year and i found myself struggling, analyzing, over giving….


    i really want to unwind that dynamic in me…it almost feels like not part of me and yet it is….like something goes on automatic pilot…something so needy and so out of proportion to what i want and how i know what is good and what isn’t good for me

    part of me see’s it as exploration….and truely believes that i am being open hearted and vulnerable…and yet the wise woman knows there is some need jerk thing going on….knocking on a already known dead end…

    and he did respond to the friend request…very low key and understated yes…that is how he is…that is fine…that is not for me…he is not for me in any way…he symbolizes a challenge for me i guess…i got caught in a web…the more i struggled to find a way out the more i seemed to have gotten caught…but not again…even tho i had to visit it again…now i dis-en-gage …..and don’t want anything from him…

    i know i knew ….i again am pulling my energy, my psyche away from his…this is where the exploration lays….to dis en gage without anger…to dis en gage because there is nothing to engage with

    to heal the place in me that goes where no one is…or where i will get nothing that i what i need or deserve….what is that?

    i don’t mean to make this more than is….i just don’t want that energy, that compulsion ever in me ….i love myself too much…
    yet it comes into play in such tricky ways….wearing all kinds of costumes and personas…and get ups…

    ahhh getting hip to oneself is such an un-ending process…
    i just know that i have to be very careful about the men i let close….i need to honor my feelings and gauge and trust my intuiton and not be led by insecurity…..or the need for validation..not engage with the ones who are distant or seemingly so calm yet so manipulative too….

  238.  #238TMG on May 22, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Hi Rori,
    I need your help please! I’ve been in a relationship of sorts with a man for over two years. It started out as a small chat in the gym on lunch, then infrequent emails about work and then we began an affair. We were both in bad places, he was heading towards divorce and I was on my way out the door. Both of us in 20+ year relationships. The beginning was intense however we kept it to work hours only (we never slept together even though I wanted to and still do). Last June it ended abruptly him stating that he wouldn’t be able to leave his family specifically his sons, stating his relationship with his wife was over and they were literally living separate lives within one house but that he would remain despite the living conditions. He wants us to remain friends.
    I was devastated! I was planning on a future together, had my heart and soul set on it..I was looking forward to so much. Since then we did become best friends, morning chats, during the day, working out together in the gym. The problem is the attraction remains for both of us. Sometimes we flirt “heavy” and then the following day he acts like it never happened. This is a continious cycle repeating the same way. There are days we can’t keep our hands off each other. One day it became very intense and he even said that it was the most comfortable he had ever felt with me. That was the last time we were intimate. I’ve been extremely frustrated ever since to the point I was even imagining he was seeing another girl at the office. Last Friday I confronted him about it in a rather attacking way and he turned it around and we’re not talking now. He’s upset that I didn’t trust him. Said he has NEVER betrayed my trust. Stated that I didn’t know him at all.
    The truth is I want us to be a couple. Life circumstances are preventing that. I haven’t left my other half for fear of being alone. He’s still in his situation. The bottom line is that I love him and if being friends is all I can have, I’d rather have that than nothing.
    But how do I fix this? I want him to want me. Even if we have to live this way until one of us is strong enough to make the moves necessary to be together. How can I bring him back to me, be interested in me again the way he was…how do I show him that I do trust him when he’s said I could never convince him?
    My whole life is currently consumed by thoughts of him and me of us…I dream of him, awake to thinking about our situation, I miss him like the deserts miss the rain. He was my morning, day, evening and weekends (communication through email).

  239.  #239Rori Raye on May 24, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    TMG – Please, please, please get some private coaching. It would be the most important thing you’ll ever do for yourself. Sticking it out with a man who clearly is going nowhere with you is an act of neglect and abuse against yourself. He is irrelevant. The question is “for what purpose are you there?” And because you’re feeling obsessed and in “love” is not any kind of reason at all. It’s like “for what purpose are you taking heroin every day?” Sorry to be so firm, but I care about you, and not about him right now. He is NOT your friend. A friend would not allow a friend to endure such a thing as he’s participating in putting you through. Love, Rori

  240.  #240Dominique on May 25, 2015 at 8:34 am

    TMG – I’m so sorry for the pain and turmoil you’re feeling. This kind of situation can feel so very difficult, yet it’s not one you can change. At least not in the ways you seem intent on. You cannot make someone want you, love you, want to be with you.

    Where you CAN change this, make this feel better, is by taking care of YOU, really, really taking care of you – loving on yourself even harder than you may have ever before which can look like most anything – filling your life up with people and activities which make you feel good, smile. Creating loving rituals for yourself, i.e. treating yourself as though you are a precious gift, for you are. Meditations, visualizations, anything which takes the edge off if only a little.

    Your focus must come off of him and be put firmly on you. If this will change, it will only be because HE wants it to, and this usually means when the pressure is lifted. BUT you cannot be looking for this or him to change, for then your focus will not be where it needs to be. ON YOU. And when you’re on this path of lifting YOU up, others will be attracted to you like never before; people will want to be around you, with you to drink of this wonderful energy you will be exuding. And this might very well include a man who wants to be with you, who wants to do for you, make you happy.

    Healing this may take some time, and this is okay, for true healing does take time, YET you can shift some of this quickly, and in this you might find some hope, a glimmer at the end of what seems like a very dark tunnel right now. And these glimmers will be what keep you going.

    I’m here for you if you feel compelled to reach out.

    Sending you much love.

    xxoo Dominique

  241.  #241TMG on May 26, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Thank you Rori and Dominique, so very much.
    I put down my foot today and said that I’ve undergone a bit of a change of perspective as of late. I’m done with making a man the centre of my world. I’m looking after me now!
    But right now at this moment, I need to be good to me and work on me.
    He replied stating that he’s glad I’ve chosen to look after myself and that it was about time.
    Honestly, are men from another galaxy…what does that even mean?
    At this point in my day, I don’t even care to waste the energy I used to waste trying to read between the lines.
    Since I sent that email he’s tried to make small talk.
    I’ll let you know how things go tomorrow or even tonight…I’m wondering if I’ll hear from him after my email of today. And reading that I just realized I have to concentrate on me tonight instead 🙂
    All I can say is, if I wasn’t smoking right now I would be soon. This is so hard. I think all relationships should be called a Tango. But when does the Tango evolute into a Swan Dance :/
    And one more thing (I have to know), why are men such cowards?
    Anyways, that was my vent for the day and revelation of what I’m trying to do with the tools you’ve provided. I only hope I’m doing this correctly :/

  242.  #242taymee on June 5, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Dear Rohi, my name is taymee, am 24. I and my bf have been having a good relationship from the beginning of our 2 years relationship but all time went on, different things started happening, he is 28 and he was cheating with smaller girls and when I found out, he begged and begged and promised heaven and earth never to do them again. Also, when we have issues, if he is wrong, he tries to claim right, if am angry at him and I don’t talk to him, he doesn’t talk to me too nor apologize. He ignores me, sometimes, I talk to him before he talks to me so that we can settle the issue we have and move on fine because I don’t feel comfortable or get my sellf whenever we have issues, now he does it all the time and I think he is taking my feelings for granted, he insults me, cal me names like “idiot” stupid” crazy whenever we have issues and ignores me because he know I will talk to him first but I feel he is taking me for granted. What do I do? Pls help me..