A Philosophy of Love

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Relationships have ups and downs.

Things aren’t always going to feel good, go good, be good.

No one and nothing is “perfect.”

And nothing “stays the same.”

We never “achieve” any “state” of “goodness” where we can just coast on all that we’ve achieved.

Every  moment is  a new moment, and the key to happiness, for me, is in falling in love with the unknown.

I don’t just mean accepting, or even embracing.  I mean flat-out falling in love with it.

For me – every bit of “holding on” or constantly trying to make things happen is just plain fear of not having control.

And since we DON’T have control over most things – we’re playing a losing game trying to “master” our lives.

I struggle, we all struggle sometimes with some things, or even the same things.

The point is that the outcome of every moment, day in and day out, is not under our control.

And what IS under our control is the sheer bravery of diving down under the mask of superficial niceness and pleasantness and going and getting along that we all wear, and into real, honest-to-goodness, heart-to-heart relating.

Going into a moment with your feelings, your body and your mind all connected up and open to public viewing.

The fearlessness of stepping into a moment like that is a real like no other.

There is no rush, no confidence builder, no self-esteem boosts like a moment of fearlessness that leads to a deeper connection with another human being.

It’s like doing what you’ve always wanted to do and not only living to tell the tale, but coming home with the prize!

Only – you can’t go for the end result.

You can’t plunge into the unknown to get the prize.

I know – it’s a “catch” that is endlessly frustrating.

That’s why fearlessness and going into the unknown CAN’T be things we “do” or “tolerate” or “push through” in order to get the prize.

Your motivation CAN’T be the prize!

Your motivation has to be love. Love for the unknown, the unknowable.

It’s you as daredevil.

But instead of jumping off mountains with parachutes and wing-suits – you speak the truth without knowing how it’ll land.

Instead of doing things you’re afraid of (flying, falling, getting onstage…) so that you can get through them and be “stronger” on the other side…or because of the “rush” it gives you…you do these things because you LOVE the idea of doing them, and you love the unknown moments all through the process.

It’s science fiction. It’s plowing into another dimension, jumping through a fold in space, floating into a new galaxy, losing the sensation of where “down” or “up” is.

It’s following your body and heart through places you’ve never been before.

“Go for it!” doesn’t mean go for the end result.

“Go for it!” means what YOU want it to mean.

“Go  for it!” can simply mean “You GO girl!”

“Just Do It!” can mean just stand there and BE in the next, unknowable moment, letting your body fully experience it.

See if you can allow each moment to happen – without your “help.”

See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to be who he is in your presence without your help.

See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to see who YOU are in their presence, without doing anything.

See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to help YOU just BE who you are in their presence by not making any meaning out of anything, or going for anything, or wanting anything beyond just wanting to BE there.

See if you can fall in love with each moment as something new, unknowable, scary, lovely, whatever shows up.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 7:05 am


  2.  #2Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 7:12 am


  3.  #3Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 7:16 am

    Yup, I’m feeling pretty scared just reading and thinking about this…woah

  4.  #4Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 7:28 am

    This seems so relevant here
    “Paulette – This is all in my Love Scripts program. And yes you CAN hold in your feelings – because you have TONS of feelings, and you don’t need to express every one of them – you get to pick the good-feeling ones if you can, and carefully construct what you say around the rest. Stop contacting him. Stop trying to get anything across to him. If he asks why you don’t call, say it doesn’t feel good to chase him by phone, and it feels good to let him lead the communicating, and that it feels great to hear his voice when he calls.” NO making him wrong! Later on, if you’re really getting ready to talk about being in a relationship (this isn’t one yet) – that’s when you get to talk about “being on the same page” – it’s all in Love Scripts.”

  5.  #5Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 7:28 am

    Whew… i felt a rush just reading this. Not knowing feels scary but safe at the same time. Not knowing feels makes me feel worrisome, yet at ease.

    I really do not know where anything is going to end up. Saying that makes my heart beat faster. I dont want to not know really.

  6.  #6Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 7:30 am

    I will say out loud “i dont know” until i become comfortable with the idea that I dont know and never will.

  7.  #7Heart on June 11, 2012 at 7:45 am

    Oh gosh..Hello and Welcome to the Impossible…
    Just kidding. I think loving the unknown is a beautiful idea.

  8.  #8Heart on June 11, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Oh gosh..Hello and Welcome to the Impossible…
    Just kidding. I think loving the unknown is a beautiful idea.

  9.  #9Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Damn… okay. Not knowing is good. It feels good. Because knowing or THINKING that i know who i will end up with makes me work so hard to stay with one CD. But now that the only thing I know is that they love me but i dont know where that love will take us. Now I can just focus on me! Cuz i really dont know about anyone else. I dont know how anyone else feels but myself.

    I love not knowing.
    I love the unknown.
    I am brave and no longer scared of the unknown.

  10.  #10Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 8:05 am

    I love me and I love the present moment. I am IN LOVE with the present moment <— true shxt.

  11.  #11Emoticon on June 11, 2012 at 8:13 am

    “No scheduling or making plans around him
    No watching what you say and don’t say
    No trying to make him happy or make him love you
    No “nice” and no “understanding” when something he does or doesn’t do makes YOU unhappy”

    Feels great to read this. I dont want to do any of the above. I just want to be happy.

  12.  #12Heart on June 11, 2012 at 8:24 am

    feel icky and angry when I see Manboy’s picture on my facebook and I still feel hopeful and I’m angry at myself for feeling hopeful….and I feel hurt by the fact that he went of to meet friends- women included….but he can’t pick up the phone and call me? And then I feel turned off by Manboy physcally…I just feel grossed out …And We’re back….feeling ok and bored now…Going to get a snack and think of my outfit for a party on Thursday.

  13.  #13Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Ella while reviewing I saw this and my mind instantly went to you when I read about the Expanding Relationship. This kind of relationship appeals to me.

    “Here’s how we did it:

    First (and you’ll learn about this in my Toxic Men program), Julie had to “understand” what the powerful draw to this man’s “toxicity” was.

    She had to “get” how his drinking and “little- boy” problem made her feel “stronger” and “better” than him somehow, and how that felt good to her in a deep way she hadn’t realized.

    She also had to really look at how HIS problems were HELPING her to take the focus off of her own issues – especially how she was not taking good care of herself, and how that made it so difficult for her to RECEIVE love.

    So I had her refocus all her energies.

    She focused on “blooming” her life outside of the marriage – she joined a gym, she went to a nutritional center and focused on her health, she took walks, she went out with her friends, she focused on choosing something to do that made her feel happy whenever she could.

    Whenever she found herself getting angry at her husband’s lack of discipline, she attended to her own sense of discipline in taking care of herself.

    When the image of the “other woman” came up, she allowed herself to FEEL it, and then she used my Tools to shift that image into something that made her feel better.

    Bit by bit, moment by moment, she started to climb out of that pit of despair she was in, and get a bigger picture for herself – of a better, more fulfilling life.

    What Julie did, and what you’ll learn to do in Toxic Men, is to take herself OUT of the Toxic dynamic between her and her husband.

    She stopped telling him what to do to be more responsible, and instead used all her energy for herself.

    Julie discovered she was a much “bigger” and better person than she’d thought she was.

    She started feeling better.

    And that whole new, happier, stronger “vibe” around her completely changed the relationship – and her husband right along with it.

    Arguments stopped.

    She learned how to “Opt-Out.” (This Tool is in Toxic Men – it’ll help you stop feeling drained by your man and all the work you’re doing to save the relationship and instead change things effortlessly.)

    All of a sudden, Julie’s husband started coming home at night.

    And when he didn’t, she handled it in a completely different way – a way he’d never seen before and that made him want to try harder to make her happy.

    It was as if he was growing up before her eyes, and at the same time, she was changing.

    She felt stronger, healthier – she felt so good taking care of herself and was shocked to see how her taking care of herself was making HIM want to take care of HER!

    Everything was working backwards from the way she’d been trying to make it work.

    The “other woman” was the most difficult part.

    Julie couldn’t forget, forgive, or stop thinking about it.

    This is where she had to make a choice.

    Now that she knew that this could be a good marriage – did she WANT it?

    Did she want to be with a man who’d “betrayed” her, or did she want to start fresh with a new man?

    All of a sudden, what had felt painful, desperate, overwhelming, back-to-the-wall and impossible, felt like a “choice” she had the power and the strength to make.

    And the choice she made was to stay.

    She decided that what she had here with her husband was a true, deep connection, and that it was meaningful and actually felt wonderful to her.

    She decided that both of them had grown through this experience, and MOST IMPORTANT, she now believed her husband to be – objectively, without looking at him through desperate, angry eyes – a man with whom she could have an Expanding Relationship
    I explain the Expanding Relationship in Toxic Men, but briefly – it’s the opposite of a Toxic Relationship.

    In an Expanding Relationship, both people are about HELPING the other to become the best, happiest person they can be.

    In an Expanding Relationship, her husband would be COMMITTED to helping Julie grow as a person their whole lives together – as she was already committed to being there for HIM.

    In an Expanding Relationship, they could help EACH OTHER go farther and faster, to realize their true potential, both in love and out there in the world.

    In an Expanding Relationship they would both be totally committed to developing true INTIMACY instead of “just getting along.”

    And that’s what happened.

    Julie felt completely SUPPORTED for the first time in her life.

    She felt her husband was already grown up enough to be a real support for her, and that she didn’t have to “train” him anymore.

    He’d changed.

    She didn’t feel the need to “mold” him anymore.

    She’d begun to TRUST him.

    She made the decision to start fresh, give him a true second chance, deal with her feelings about the “other woman” who was NOT in his life (he even did MORE than he needed to do to be open and prove to Julie that she was the only woman in his life, the only woman who would ever matter – and she could FEEL that).

    Her marriage felt fantastic.

    All her friends’ mouths were hanging open.

    Her family re-embraced him.

    He pretty much abandoned his boyish hanging- out-with-the-boys-at-the-bar behavior and focused himself on his business.

    He started to look at his own issues with a realistic eye, and both of them completely stopped being defensive.

    They were achieving a real partnership.

    This marriage had pretty low odds of succeeding, and yet it has – and brilliantly.

    So I KNOW you have hope, and I want you to believe in yourself and FEEL that hope..

    The Tools in Toxic Men will help you discover WHY you’re experiencing the pain of toxic relationships, WHAT you can do to change that, and then EXACTLY HOW (demonstrated by real women working with me onstage) you can turn things around for yourself

  14.  #14Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Wow, this REALLY spoke to me.

    “See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to be who he is in your presence without your help.

    See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to see who YOU are in their presence, without doing anything.”

    It feels powerful to me

  15.  #15Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 8:34 am


    This means – take the focus off of HIM, and put it squarely on yourself.
    Love is not about any one man. I know it feels like it is, but it isn’t.
    Love is about loving and being loved. Feeling love coming into you, and feeling love going out of you.
    The man you are exchanging love with is only PART of the exchange.
    Some men can exchange love better than others, and often – a man can be more able to exchange love if YOU are.
    In order to be able to exchange love, you have to be able to love YOURSELF – full out, totally, completely, no-holds-barred, no conditions — you have to love ALL of YOU.
    And then – a man can feel safe and accepted and be his best self with you.
    The thing is — YOU have to go FIRST.
    And this is Not about being “nicer” to HIM — it’s about being nicer to YOU!
    So – get your mind off whatever man you’re focused on right now. For Ingrid, he’s the father of her child — for you, it might be wonderful memories of the good moments he’s capable of — and that’s enough for now.
    This means, when you feel hurt or angry – you realize that he’s just being who he is, and you’re most likely feeling hurt and angry because YOU have expectations and desires he is not fulfilling.
    Yes, he may be a jerk for not fulfilling your wishes and making you happy – but this isn’t about HIM, remember…it’s about YOU. You can’t make him into a better person by forcing him, or crying, or convincing, or any reasonable or dramatic means.
    You can only make him into a better person by focusing on getting your needs fulfilled WITHOUT relying on HIM.
    You can only make him into a better man by becoming so irresistibly desirable and magnetic yourself.
    You do that by loving yourself and standing by yourself and getting out there and Circular Dating and discovering what your real needs and real feelings are and getting them taken care of.
    As you lift yourself up, by focusing on yourself and on being HAPPY — no matter WHAT — you will start to see him CLEARLY.
    You’ll just simply stop being fooled by him, and the stuff he does that makes you feel furious and lousy right now will simply BORE you.
    The pain will go away — and love will come IN.
    This is how you get a man to step up!


  16.  #16Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Hmmm… But I’m struggling with this…

    “See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to help YOU just BE who you are in their presence by not making any meaning out of anything, or going for anything, or wanting anything beyond just wanting to BE there.”

    This sounds much harder..

  17.  #17Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Wish I knew how to use this type of Feeling Message when I was younger

    ““I’m really glad you pulled away because it’s given me a lot of time to think and decide what I want for my future and if you really are the man I want. And I know you’re not in a place to commit to a relationship right now. Last January when we talked through things, you said that you thought we could have something really special down the road. I don’t know if you really meant that or if it was said as a way of letting me down easy. Either way, I’ve decided not to hold onto that anymore, and I’m setting you, and myself, free from that remark. I want to thank you for helping me to realize that I still can feel like a very sexual and sensual woman after all these years. And I’ve decided the best thing for me right now, is to walk away from this “friendship” because it is too difficult for me to just be your friend because of my deep feelings for you. I hope you can find what you’re looking for and are happy. And this is where I say good-bye.”


  18.  #18Heart on June 11, 2012 at 8:39 am

    #15 -Fem did u post that for me? Regardless thank you.

  19.  #19Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 8:44 am

    What worries me is men only want you when you are up and positive and puttng yourself first. Why can’t they love you when you are down and negative too? We love them…

  20.  #20Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Rebecca I would challenge that belief. Rori has an eNewsletter helping women to use their weaknesses to bring a man closer.

    It is how we use thise down feelings and moments that either create distance or closeness.

  21.  #21Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:00 am

    dear Rori.there is this wonderful man who I,one year ago,heard about,that he divorced from his wide with who he has two children.The first time I saw him I thought wow what a man,but he is married.And suddenly he was not married anymore!We met him,me and my son,with his children on thr playingground and he showed interest,with words and with those smiles he had always given me.One year has passed.He is still meeting me with the same intence smiles,and now first I realize that this man is amazing,after a hard year of many breakthroughs in my personal life.He have tried many times to get in contact and somehow I have always been half hearted on the outside,week on the inside,I did not think I deserved him.Now it is all different.I feel that he is really the man I want to be with! He is still single,he stills smiles at me and he is just gorgeous.And I shall DO NOTHING.But HOW do I show him that I really really like him so much?That I am going to say yes now,to whatever he suggests( he is a very good guy,he is not going to suggest anything I cannot say yes to).I really need a good advice!Thank you for your wonderful blog and ething you do!

  22.  #22Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:00 am

    dear Rori.there is this wonderful man who I,one year ago,heard about,that he divorced from his wide with who he has two children.The first time I saw him I thought wow what a man,but he is married.And suddenly he was not married anymore!We met him,me and my son,with his children on thr playingground and he showed interest,with words and with those smiles he had always given me.One year has passed.He is still meeting me with the same intence smiles,and now first I realize that this man is amazing,after a hard year of many breakthroughs in my personal life.He have tried many times to get in contact and somehow I have always been half hearted on the outside,week on the inside,I did not think I deserved him.Now it is all different.I feel that he is really the man I want to be with! He is still single,he stills smiles at me and he is just gorgeous.And I shall DO NOTHING.But HOW do I show him that I really really like him so much?That I am going to say yes now,to whatever he suggests( he is a very good guy,he is not going to suggest anything I cannot say yes to).I really need a good advice!Thank you for your wonderful blog and ething you do!

  23.  #23Heart on June 11, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Amazing – what words? Maybe he could just be a really smiley guy…Do you even know him?

  24.  #24Heart on June 11, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Amazing – just look at him and smile back! That’s all you should do at this point.
    (Imaginary relationship alert)

  25.  #25Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Lupus and the Autoimmune Crisis
    Many people know that Lupus (systemic Lupus erythematosus – SLE) is an autoimmune disease. Autoimmune diseases are a class of conditions where your immune system attacks your own body. There are many autoimmune disorders, such as rheumatoid arthritis, Type 1 diabetes, Crohn’s disease, colitis and allergies. The prevalence of all of these conditions is increasing.


    What causes Lupus and other autoimmune conditions and what can we do about them?

    Causes of Lupus
    We need to be very cautious when we talk about causes, whether we are talking about Lupus or any other condition. There are two basic reasons: 1) Accuracy. Our view of medicine and, therefore, our understanding of disease is growing daily. We simply don’t have the complete information to be able to see why someone may have Lupus or any other disease. Stating a “cause” would be inaccurate. 2) Hope. We certainly don’t want to add emotional distress to the victim of a disease by telling them their condition is hopeless; this hopeless attitude may be a by-product of our wrong view of disease.

    Instead, let’s talk about the process of Lupus and other autoimmune disorders. It is a three-step process leading to disease:

    Antecedents – Antecedents are the things that go before something else. There are specific immune complexes called CD8 that are needed to harmonize your system from day to day. With Lupus, the CD8 suppressing antecedents are often toxins called xenoestrogens (fake estrogens in our environment). These include dioxin, DDT and carbon tetrachloride. They also include plastics (Bisphenol A and phthalates), preservatives like BHA and food coloring such as red dye #3.
    Antecedents also include deficiencies. People suffering from Lupus commonly have deficiencies in Vitamin D, B-6, B-12, dietary fiber, iron, magnesium and essential fatty acids.

    Triggers – Triggers are the substances or events that activate the disease process. In Lupus, the trigger is commonly stress. Stress – especially “social defeat” stress – suppresses the harmonizing effect of CD8. Virus infections are common triggers as well. The Epstein-Barr virus is found in the organs of many people with Lupus.
    Inflammatory mediators – Inflammatory mediators are the chemicals that cause inflammation. Runaway inflammation is what destroys the internal organs of people with Lupus.
    What we can do
    Lupus is a serious disease that may eventually kill the people it attacks. Never undertake the treatment of such a serious medical condition without a qualified healthcare provider as your guide.

    Think of Lupus and other autoimmune conditions as a poisonous tree with a root (antecedent), shoot (trigger) and fruit (inflammatory mediators). Simply addressing the “fruit” of inflammation is, while important, not enough. We must uproot the entire tree. The tool we need to accomplish this is CD8.

    Strike at the roots of the tree by removing toxins and poisons that block CD8: insecticides, plastics, preservatives and food colorings. Build up your CD8 by supplementing your nutrition with Vitamin D, B-6, B-12, dietary fiber, iron, magnesium and essential fatty acids. Reduce and remove the triggers that blunt CD8, especially stress. Then go after the poisonous fruits, the inflammation that destroys vital organs.

    Rather than being a victim of autoimmune disease, think of yourself as a participant in your personal Wellness Journey!

  26.  #26Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Thanks Feminine Woman ~ I will try and look into this some more. I think I am badly scarred by an experience that I had when I was very young. I was in a relationship with someone and very happy, but he left me when I had a breakdown. And at the time I had very few tools to pick myself up with. I have always had a fear of showing weakness after that.

  27.  #27LoveAlways on June 11, 2012 at 9:30 am

    WOW!!!! I GET this!!!!!

    “See if you can allow each moment to happen – without your “help.” ~ See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to be who he is in your presence without your help.
    ~ See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to see who YOU are in their presence, without doing anything. ~ See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to help YOU just BE who you are in their presence by not making any meaning out of anything, or going for anything, or wanting anything beyond just wanting to BE there. ~ See if you can fall in love with each moment as something new, unknowable, scary, lovely, whatever shows up.”



  28.  #28LoveAlways on June 11, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Amazing – start with flirting – that’s holding eye contact and a smile for five seconds. Then have a feeling message ready to share with him when he approaches to speak to you. Breathe and slow everything down. Follow the Rock and Air principle tools of Modern Siren. Trust your boundaries, follow your feelings, choose your words – allow each moment to be a surprise!

  29.  #29Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:42 am

    yes,i guess all I can do is smile back,which I do,of course.And as long as he do not do anything,he did before but I never really did things back,I just have to keep on smiling…but is there something I can say?yes,I know him,our children are friends and at the same school.I do not think he is shy,I do not think he is a mommys boy who wants the girls to do.I feel happy in his presence,that is all i know for sure.But I want to show him in some way,invite him to do more,make him understand that I want to spend time eith him.That is all

  30.  #30Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:49 am

    loveAlways-we wrote these comments at the same time!yes,i have to start with that.but i am afraid of scaring him away,but really,if he has shown interest for a year now without having any new girlfriend and I scare him away,then it was never meant to be anyway.I guess Rori has all the answers.And you cannot scare away mister right!

  31.  #31Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:50 am

    loveAlways-we wrote these comments at the same time!yes,i have to start with that.but i am afraid of scaring him away,but really,if he has shown interest for a year now without having any new girlfriend and I scare him away,then it was never meant to be anyway.I guess Rori has all the answers.And you cannot scare away mister right!

  32.  #32Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 9:55 am

    I have been through a lot this last year,and The day I really started to think about him after been in a mess for a while,he showed up,and it was a very special feeling as when I let go of everything with drama,he shows up.And that has happened before.As if the universe wants to say,look,this man is a very good guy,what the hell are you deAling with girl?forget about it,this is the one you should look for…

  33.  #33Heart on June 11, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Amazing – you said he did before…what did he do?

  34.  #34LoveAlways on June 11, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Amazing – lean back and let whatever’s going to be just be! Having a script of feeling messages ready is just in case he approaches you for conversation. If he doesn’t that fine too. Your flirting and being open for him to approach you is the tool you are practicing. Let happen whatever’s going to happen – just breathe, slow it down and lean back 🙂

  35.  #35LoveAlways on June 11, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Amazing – say what you feel

    “I feel happy you came over”
    “It feels nice to speak with you”
    “today feels beautiful – I love the warm sunshine on my face”

    (I’m not the best at feeling message 🙂 )

  36.  #36Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 10:09 am

    thank you,it will take much courage for me to do it,and i hope i can just be in the moment,say what i feel right then about something,and be calm and happy.:)

  37.  #37Daria on June 11, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Amazing – this post is about not doing more… Let him lead. He will ask you out if he wants to…

    You can smile at him, let him speak first (you always respond w a poetic feeling message… Do the 5 second eye gaze. If a man doesn’t get turned on by the 5 second eye gaze I would feel surprised

    This is 5 seconds, not like ordinary looks…

  38.  #38R.N.AmazingMe on June 11, 2012 at 10:12 am

    oh yes….fear of the unknown. I would never have made it through that transition with Rori and her tools and of course you sirens! I had to know the outcome to EVERYTHING and now I am really starting to get a hold of just being and living in the moment. I don’t have to know, and do not really want to know. That is a joy in life I will no longer try to spoil. To love and live in each moment of your day, this is no easy task but it feels amazing. When people say live each day like it is your last they dont mean go sky diving and do everything you wanted to do in life. They mean love, learn, embrace, and cherish each moment of your life everyday. This is a gift to be able to do. You have to really make an effort to accomplish it. When you can do this, EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is not a stressor in life anymore. You fixing people days have to come to an end, you have to take care and love yourself.

  39.  #39Daria on June 11, 2012 at 10:12 am

    That’s what I would do. I’d feel so scared to do the gaze lol

  40.  #40Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I came to the blog in the middle of the day, and it was a big mistake:( I feel triggered and unhappy and very unsupported. But it was just one lame comment by someone who knows nothing about me. Still, I’m so sensitive. I can’t handle when someone takes offense to me because of the thoughts in my head about myself. Why do people feel so compelled to tell you that your own personal thoughts are just wrong, when it has nothing to do with anyone else?

    So a suicidal death wish involving cancer crossed my mind last night? So what?

    So I think a guy is immature for giving me the silent treatment? So what?

    What makes someone get angry AT me instead of just saying, “so sorry to hear you’re going through a rough time”??

    I don’t get it

  41.  #41FlowerChild77 on June 11, 2012 at 10:26 am

    ((((Starla)))) I haven’t been around here for awhile and don’t know what was said…but I certainly can relate to how you feel about a response that makes your feelings “wrong”—especially if it’s from someone who doesn’t really know you.

    I hope you’re feeling better now. I’ll be thinking of you this afternoon <3

  42.  #42Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Starla I felt angry reading the comments too and like my blood pressure immediately skyrocketed. I felt it in my forehead. I felt like putting my hands blah blah blah.

    So I decided to stomp the floor instead. A little of those feelings are still there so I am getting up to walk around and do that stomping.

  43.  #43Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Daria,I have to DARE doing it.I will meet him on friday at our childrens school,end of term.Then I have to lean back,flirt and do all that.I really have to have the courage.Lately I have leaned back everytime,but I never dared look in his eyes five seconds.Lately i learned Roris tools,I have to practice them.I have to do it all;be a magnet,paint myself with love,feeling messages.Give me courage!Thank you for all your comments!

  44.  #44Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Daria,I have to DARE doing it.I will meet him on friday at our childrens school,end of term.Then I have to lean back,flirt and do all that.I really have to have the courage.Lately I have leaned back everytime,but I never dared look in his eyes five seconds.Lately i learned Roris tools,I have to practice them.I have to do it all;be a magnet,paint myself with love,feeling messages.Give me courage!Thank you for all your comments!

  45.  #45Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:29 am

    42 FW, you mean I p*ssed you off too?

  46.  #46Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Oh no.

    The other commentor. I can kind of understand where the comments are coming from but I iimediately felt angry because I guess of how it was worded and directed at you. It felt like being slapped around to me.

  47.  #47Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:37 am

    they’re good triggers, though. i’ve learned from the boyfriends i’ve had through my depressed phases to move away from anyone who insults me or tells me to ‘just snap out of it’

  48.  #48Iamabutterfly on June 11, 2012 at 10:38 am

    (((Starla))) – other people’s responses to US can often have nothing to do with US and everything to do with THEM. our messengers can certainly tell us about ourselves, but they, like you, are also being triggered by thousands of little influences.

    The key is take everything with a grain of salt, and to show compassion to everyone, and especially to yourself!

  49.  #49Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:39 am

    i wonder if i’ll always carry this little bit of depression around with me. most of the time it’s not hanging over me, but my hormone issues during PMS can make it so bad.

    I have to start accepting this about myself, or no man will accept this about me.

    And if any man talks to me like how that commenter talked to me, RUN!!!!!!!

  50.  #50Iamabutterfly on June 11, 2012 at 10:43 am

    I haven’t been feeling well. I’ve had this ear infection that refuses to go away, a cough, naselly stuff, etc. I also feel super stressed out.

    I’ve allowed my room and car to get ridiculously messy and it doesn’t feel good.

    I never feel like I have enough time to organize everything, spend time with God, spend time with family/friends, and accomplish much of anything.

    I’m struggling to plan and prepare meals, and to exercise. I’m always going going going.

    A lazy vacation would feel soooo good. One week for organizing, one week for resting!!!

  51.  #51Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:45 am


  52.  #52Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Iamabutterfly I know what you. It was what got my lapse of better judgement recently and ending up with partially amputated fingers. Now sometimes I just stop and feel good, even in the mess.

  53.  #53Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Correct “I know what you mean”.

  54.  #54Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:50 am

    I “stood up for myself” to that commenter, though. What was I standing up for? My right to be depressed? My own self? I’m not sure, really. I do know that when people talk to me like that, it drives me closer to genuine suicidalness. I have a strong desire to “prove” i’m not okay, and feeling invalidated shakes me so strongly that I stop feeling connected to or worth anything in this existence. I think this goes way back to when I was a child and my mother never believed me when I was sick.

    I ended up faking a serious symptom just to get her to show some concern. And I lied to that doctor, too! Of course, my mom was the queen of doing this herself…

    I forgive my little pre-teen self.

  55.  #55Starla on June 11, 2012 at 10:52 am

    ((((((FW’s fingers))))))))))

  56.  #56Heart on June 11, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Starla – Most people has a loved one/relative that has died of cancer. I felt so Enraged by your comment. You disgust me! *shakes fist* I am crying now and reaching for my Fire and brimstone to damn you with!
    But really.
    I thought your comment was funny and I laughed. Good? is upset about her Mom but that does not give her the right to lash out at you! You were just expressing yourself dramatically.

  57.  #57Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Heart-he has done a lot,but in that time,I never did the right thing.I wasnt ready for him,I guess.I didnt know about Roris tools,I was hooked up on imaginary guys,he tried to get more contact in small different ways,I did not really answer or get it.I cut it off ,I was scared,I talked too much and did too much.I screwed up everything I did in relationships so far,but the guys were screwed up too.crazy guys,crazy times.This guy is great.He is kind,loving,educated,beautiful,nice…I cannot screw this up,it would break my heart.And so far,I did anyway.But he doesn’t seam to think that.I hope he just sees it as it is;I wasnt ready.But now I want to really show him I am ready for the first good guy I ever even noticed.And that is him!

  58.  #58Heart on June 11, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Btw – everyone keeps talking about this little girl/little teen/little boy self…and I dont know where it’s from…

  59.  #59FlowerChild77 on June 11, 2012 at 10:59 am

    I’m in a crazy-feeling place right now. Some days are better than others, but I still have times when I miss him so much and no matter what I do it’s so intense I just have to feel it and accept how I feel—knowing it’s all a part of the grieving process.

    I was “allowed” two weeks ago, to go and get my belongings from the house. It was very hard and the ‘sisters’ made it so much worse than it had to be. I had my sons and daughter-in-law with me and several of their guy friends (who grew up with my boys and I love them like they’re my own) to help carry the heavy stuff.

    I went into the last room we (he and I) did work in (to get ready for me to move back home) and wanted to just stay there for a few moments and ‘pray’ and say good-bye in my soul. I was immediately told to ‘get out of there’ and that I had to “stay in my area.”

    WHO was I hurting by standing in that room?

    I could have gotten through the whole thing without breaking down until she did that. She put her arms out and I knew she would shove me out of the room (as she shoved me out the door hours after he died and locked me out.) I walked out in disbelief.

    It’s been two whole weeks with no contact from them (no nasty emails, no pumping me for information, etc.) and I can say that that, in itself, has helped me start to feel better. Their behavior toward me made the loss so much more painful and difficult. And for NO reason…

    I’m meditating and keeping myself busy and trying my best to slowly move on. I am a little frightened by how much I miss him. I believe I must have loved him far more than I ever realized. I did love him with all my heart—but it’s far deeper than I ever imagined. I ache to hear his voice and feel his arms around me.

    I’d be back home and we’d be married by now. All the more reason I can’t understand why they said (at the hospital) how all he ever talked about was me and that he was so proud of me (they knew we were getting married)—-and then to be treated no better than the general public.

    She let everyone and anyone who wanted to–go through the house and take whatever they wanted. I wasn’t allowed to go there until LAST. I really don’t understand and never will, but it helps to talk about it.

    I know there is life ahead for me. I just have a hard time seeing it quite yet. All you Sirens are inspiring and give me hope.

  60.  #60Heart on June 11, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Amazing – could you be a little specific on what he did exactly?
    I feel worried and concerned by the tone of your posts and some of the things you are saying.

  61.  #61Sunshine on June 11, 2012 at 11:02 am

    I feel angry can anyone explain why sometimes my comments are awaiting moderation? is it the content? I expressed i was angry at something that happened yesterday cant see how Im that innapropriate after noticing the content in the blog dont think mine is that bad….

  62.  #62lilybelly on June 11, 2012 at 11:05 am


    Holding you in my heart.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 11:06 am


  64.  #64Heart on June 11, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Flowerchild – I feel so sad from reading your post. But, your grief is so beautiful…You seem to be handling everything with dignity.

  65.  #65Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Email from Patty Contenta

    It was a Monday morning at the airport waiting to board my flight…and there he was, the man I wanted to meet! I was surprised at how nervous I felt…stuck in my mind with what I should do? Ideas on how to seduce a man were circulating in my mind. I was struggling between which two actions I would take: my masculine instinct to DO something by formulating the perfect pick up line and my feminine instinct to lean back and be chassed….to actually practice what I preach! So, I consciously chose to be in my feminine, exude sensuality…and began to BLESS myself!

    So I began the process of using my body language secrets where I cultivate my curves in order to attract a man…even if I was not on an actual date, why not use my dating tips for women!

    I embraced my sensuality and got sexy in seconds!
    B= Breathe: I literally took a few deep breaths in order to calm my energy, my body language and get grounded (just like when I dance) in order to stabilize my thoughts and my body.
    L= Lean Back: I leaned back in my stance…actually leaned against a wall to make extra sure I wasn’t confrontational what so ever. It allowed me to be less fidgety and rely on the wall for the support I needed (I really was nervous).
    E= Eye Contact= I used my eye contact to call attention to him. He wasn’t even looking my way but I knew if I held it long enough, he would eventually look up (you know that feeling we all have when you can sense someone is staring). The moment he did look up at me, I smiled and held it for about 5 seconds, then continued to look around the room (I needed to sense if he felt good about what just happened). This extended mutual eye contact happened at different moments…that’s when I knew there was an interest!
    S= Stance: I then did my sensual stance by cultivating my curves while creating an open invitation to let him know I would welcome his approach if he decided to make one. I never leaned forward in my energy but made sure to enhance my assets. He began to roam around my area…checking out the territory. I was getting butterflies in my stomach because I sensed him figuring out his approach.
    S= Self-touch: This is when I added my powerful flirting tip…self-touch! I caressed my neck…slowly to make sure he would notice. I stayed there for a while (it felt like a life time but when I reminded myself of the intention of giving back to myself…that it’s not really about him but about nurturing my sensuality…it was so cool)!
    As people began to board the plane, I held my position against the wall. I didn’t want to rush…I was actually hoping to be at the end of the line standing behind him so that he could have the opportunity to make the first move…to turn around and start a conversation.
    In fact, that’s exactly what happened! Once he went in line, I stood behind him and right before we arrived at the ticketing agent, he turned around and allowed me to go first. That’s when I said “thank you” and commented on his phone (I can tell he was VERY fond of it). So we had a brief conversation.

    We sat at separate seats…so now I needed a game plan. I decided since his seat was closer to the exit than mine, if he would be waiting for me outside the airplane…it was time for my next sensuality secrets move.
    Well, he was waiting by the escalators and the moment eye contact was made again I smiled while we descended together. Time was precious because I needed to catch my next flight, so I tapped him on the shoulder and said, “I think you have an intriguing demeanor, I would enjoy getting to know you.” And then handed him my business card and gave him the lead on whether this encounter would turn into something more.

    Let me tell you, it did…
    I was amazed that it actually worked…so I continued creating this open environment all day….with many men! I realized how easy it was to capture the attention of men when you remain open, sensual and playful. At the very least this allows me to attract more men and be in a position of choosing someone that is right for me instead of taking the first thing that shows up….make sense?
    There is a serene feeling about not NEEDING to be with a man but CHOOSING to be with one. Knowing how to turn up the volume of your sensuality so that you exude a natural confidence where you are noticed by many men and even seduce men! This attraction factor takes away the desperate feeling of being alone.
    The best way to make sure you own and feel this magnetic look is to make the body language flirting tips HABITUAL…so you don’t have to think about them and feel awkward but they become a part of your every day ritual and feel natural.
    So here’s an action plan to get yourself started on practicing these flirting techniques every day so you can attract more quality men.
    1. Every time you stand anywhere (at a coffee shop, at the bank, at the airport, at the shopping mall, while grocery shopping, waiting for your kids…need I saw more) you must go through the BLESS steps that I described above.
    2. Notice what happens to the energy around you. Do you get more smiles from people? Do you get more eye contact? Do you have more conversations with strangers?
    3. Repeat this process until you’re not even conscious but it actually becomes a part of you…a natural confidence!

  66.  #66Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Heart-what are you worried about-tell me!He has not done anything special.Tried to get more contact,in small ways,asked me and my son to go with them to a festival,talked with interest,watched me,smiled-but I have never really answered it.

  67.  #67Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 11:10 am


    I don’t know you but I relate to the deep feelings of love that you didn’t know you had and thr grief has made you feel like that.

  68.  #68Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Flowerchild, awwww so good to see you here. My heart aches for you. We are here to support you in whatever you need. Take care of you.

  69.  #69Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Heart we all have our young selves still alive inside of us. We developed our emotions when we were younger and mostly that is where our triggers come from. When we embrace that inner child and all that the child felt growing up we help to heal our emotions, flawed thinking and automatic unconscious defense mechanisms. We heal ourselves by loving the inner child.

  70.  #70Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Ugh I feel so pist!


    That’s how I was feeling! I feel so unseen!


    Wtf this feels so unfair!

    Unfair is not a feeling

    I feel powerless

    I feel unimportant

    Like I don’t count

    I feel so powerless

    I can’t handle this scenario where someone complains about the same thing I was upset about without acknowledging my upset in the first place

    Like I’m wrong for it but they’re right!

    Ong I feel so inflamed about this


    I feel pist


    I feel so sad and powerless

    I want to hit anyone who comes near

    Go away!!!!!!!!!

    I’m upset!!!!!!!!!!!


  71.  #71Amazing on June 11, 2012 at 11:17 am

    i dont really see the importance though of what he DID.The time is now and I got some great advice.Im happy for it,and I will try and go out of my comfort zone which is falling for men who break my heart,and try flirting eith this great guy.I’ll let you know!

  72.  #72ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 11:19 am

    @25 FW

    Thank you 🙂

  73.  #73Heart on June 11, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Amazing – I was just curious and I feel happy to hear he invited you somewhere. Good luck with the flirting on Friday.

  74.  #74Heart on June 11, 2012 at 11:24 am

    # 69 Fem – Thank you 🙂

  75.  #75Dominique on June 11, 2012 at 11:24 am

    sunshine – There is a list of words which can and does change that goes into moderation, the reasons not necessarily being because they are “bad” words.

    Things have transpired in the past making seemingly innocuous words not allowed until having passed moderation, pl*m for example.

    It has nothing to do with you.


  76.  #76ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 11:26 am

    @37 Amazing

    Whenever I do the 5 second eye gaze with Mr. Observant he leans in and kisses me. It works! Well, not the first time, that prompted him to ask if I was in a relationship.

  77.  #77Dominique on June 11, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Rebecca – This is so not true, and I know this from my own experience. A good guy, the kind of man you likely would want will love you and want to be with you no matter what moods strike you.

    My man for example will tend to leave me be when I feel moody, something a man usually wants for himself when he’s having his own moments, which is why he reacts as he does. But if I ask for some consoling or a hug or if I want to talk, he will happily be there for me.

    This rarely happens, and when it does, I usually will take the hug but leave the chat for a girlfriend. Men tend to want to fix things when all I want is an ear.

    And this is fine. A girl chat is often far more satisfying anyway. lol

    As long as you are open with him, “I feel weird, off, sad, etc.”, especially when you are in the early stages, he will be just fine with your moods.


  78.  #78Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Sunshine – some things go into moderation automatically

    Two links in one post…

    The words ‘jezus’ ‘bitc”h’ ‘fuchk’ and ‘plu&m’

    And there might be more …

    Don’t worry about it it’s not the content … Just adjust your spelling of the trigger words and you’ll be fine,

    Rori just has them in moderation in case there is something going on like a argument

  79.  #79Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Gosh, I am thinking of the “advice” I gave to Slippin Siren earlier and realising it’s easier to give advice than to follow it

  80.  #80ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 11:33 am

    @50 Iamabutterfly

    I can also relate. I always think a vacation will help to get through some stuff, but it never seems to help. The vacation days go by so fast! I hope you feel better soon!

  81.  #81Iamabutterfly on June 11, 2012 at 11:36 am

    @52 Feminine Woman – Thanks. 🙂 Empathy feels so comforting, and I will take care around sharp objects! (I tend to injure myself at stressful times like these as well…)

    and thanks so much for posting #65. I feel like that’s an answered prayer! I frequently have men staring at me from a distance, but it usually makes me feel nervous and scared, so I end up avoiding eye contact or shutting down. These are great tips…

  82.  #82Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I am not giving you the silent treatment.

    I’m feeling PIST PIST PIST!

    And I don’t know if I want to talk to you, ever

    I know I do t want to talk now

    I feel so pist having this be called the silent treatment

    I want to feel honored for walking away

    Respecting myself

    And respecting you! And my word and decision that I don’t want to talk to you

    Until I want to talk to you

    I feel pist

    I feel filled with heat in my head

    I feel sad

    I feel hollowed out

    I don’t want to feel judged this way

    Ugh I feel horrible just writing that

    I don’t want to be vulnerable w u

    I don’t trust you

    I feel pist at you

    I want to punish you and beat you up

    I feel mad!

    I love my anger

    I don’t think I can handle all this anger!

    I feel all in a daze and kinda out of it

    Like Rori said about something that has potential to be amazing in my life n goin thru it in a daze

    I feel do pressed against the wall!

    I love me

    I’m starting to feel a bit better

    I’m getting the hang of this feeling thing

    Right now my head feels squeezed

    And my feet tingly

    I can handle this after all

    Also my booty feels squeezed


    I love this feeling


  83.  #83Iamabutterfly on June 11, 2012 at 11:40 am

    I actually had a cute guy staring at me yesterday. I just looked at him with curiousity, but didn’t smile. (Kind of tilted my head a little…)

    I’m having such a hard time genuinely smiling at men I don’t know!

    I feel mistrustful of them, unless they approach me first, but I’m not making it any easier on them but shutting down and getting shy and not smiling…

  84.  #84Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Dominque ~ yes, thanks I think you are right. I used to bottle things up and then explode.. Now I am trying to sink into and express my feelings more. I still feel very, very nervoud about it though..

  85.  #85FlowerChild77 on June 11, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Thank you, Lilybelly; FW; Heart; Rebecca and Sassy <3

    It helps so much to feel 'understood.'

  86.  #86Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Wow I was at the airport but I felt shut down to do the looking at the guy who wasn’t looking at me first …

    I got triggered to middle school and feeling not cool enough for the popular boys

  87.  #87ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 11:46 am

    This article was good for me. I do have a fear of the unknown. I need to know plans in advance, so I can prepare myself. I want to know the time, where we are going, what we are doing, who will be there. If I’ve never been to a place before, I get really uptight and nervous because I don’t know what to expect. All my life, I have chose to not do things because of my fear of the unknown. I’ve slowly been working on this, but I still have a ways to go. It’s in regards to everything, not just relationships.

  88.  #88ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 11:49 am


  89.  #89Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:49 am

    I’m feeling way better about my day now that I chose my plan to be lounging and chilling online today!

    Wow took off all the pressure!


    Something else can come up that feels good 🙂

  90.  #90Dominique on June 11, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Rebecca – It’s feels very scary expressing feelings when you are unaccustomed. I used to sit there and shake, running the words over and over and over in my head, sometimes for days if it was a more important to me speech I wanted to deliver. And even then sometimes I was unable to get the words out.

    It does get SO much easier.


  91.  #91Sunshine on June 11, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Thanks Dominique and Daria I will put stars next time I was stating how I have trouble with boundaries because I dont want to feel like a “B” and thats my complex….anyway will be working on it. So yeah the name calling was on my self hehe

  92.  #92siren song on June 11, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Team No Contact….i’m well into day 3! just checking in. i’m really enjoying some of the articles about NC on Baggae Reclaim. I feel really empowered to refuse to be spoken to in an abusive way. woot! go me!

  93.  #93Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    4. Finally, when a man talks about career issues, show mild, real interest (if you do have such interest), throw out a suggestion or two, offer confidence that he likely knows his field and is good at it, but you find it interesting if he would ever like to talk further – then move on in topics. Measure the reaction.

    In the end you will on AVERAGE, not each and every one, but on average, see #4 as the superior dynamic if you are wanting to build friendship, love, attraction, connection with a male. Which to some may be surprising in light of #1 being very, very helpful and positive in a way, and #3 being very “empowered” and strong in a way.

    In fact #4 probably has the best boundaries (at least in an intimate relationship) as opposed to strangers…


  94.  #94Tam on June 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Hello Siren Song!! Yep, team no contact – go go!!
    Day 7, and feeling as happy as larry..well, not with my life, the man or anything that matters right now really, haha, but about the ‘no contact’…to make up for it I am having lots of internet contact with two other guys and it’s fun!! 🙂

  95.  #95siren song on June 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Way to go, tam!

  96.  #96Starla on June 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    day 2 no contact

    i talked to my coworker/friend today about him at lunch today. told him about the profile thing. in the future it would feel good not to “tell the story” over and over lol

  97.  #97Starla on June 11, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    siren song, do you mind sharing some links to the interesting articles you’re finding on NC on Baggage Reclaim?
    P.S. I believe you can only share one link at a time here to stay out of moderation

  98.  #98mali on June 11, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Oh wow… this really spoke to me; LOVE!

  99.  #99lilybelly on June 11, 2012 at 1:07 pm


    SS~ I LOVE Baggage Reclaim and it really, really helped me understand get over that hump of getting over T. I spend hours and hours in her world..

    Did you know she got married on Saturday?

  100.  #100lilybelly on June 11, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    *spent* hours ….

  101.  #101Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Go siren song!! Good job Tam!

    We can do this, Starla.
    I forwarded the text JT had sent me to my bf today and she was shocked! She said “awww he$$ to the no” and you still want to talk to him? ” I told her how I go back and read it when I feel the urge to contact him and it shuts me down.
    I guess in just a glutton for punishment.

  102.  #102Tam on June 11, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    ((((Sassy)))) i do something similar…don’t see it as glutton for punishment, rather ‘reality check’.

  103.  #103CurvySiren10 on June 11, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Sounds awful sassy. Do you not want to share what he said? I understand if you don’t. I am in GA too btw. Curious about where you are. I have never “met” a Siren from GA on here before. I’m also in your age group! 🙂 Best of luck to everyone in the NC group! I know how hard that can be, but it’s also very rewarding when you get through another day…

    Starla, thinking of you and wishing I had words to help. I know how strong you are and how this processing is going to heal you. You’re gonna be fine…this I know.

  104.  #104Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    I am finding it so hard and painful to face rhe rejection and let go of this man. Whenever I’m alone my brain keeps ticking over with “if only”, “if only”…. Arrggghhh… I’m starting to lose my confidence again… Hugs to me at feeling pain and rejection…

  105.  #105Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    I’m feeling very, very sorry for myself and vulnerable today.. Feeling sick in my stomach, bloated feeling, stiff neck, pain across my shoulders… Headache/migraine

  106.  #106Starla on June 11, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Thanks, CurvySiren. You’re still totally my fantasymom:)

  107.  #107Starla on June 11, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Sassy, i also feel curious to know what he texted to you. but i’m just nosy.

  108.  #108Tam on June 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    The thing about the NC- it gets easier as you care less. A while ago there would have been no way I’d have not answered to an email from Mr U. Now it’s been a week and I don’t feel like answering at all as that last email from him was inauthentic. I didn’t like it and the platonic friends stuff just wound me up.
    I did not have the energy for a feeling message or any message, I was angry and now I just feel like shrugging shoulders and a ‘so what’. Maybe if I need him for something, he might be useful maybe, else he can stick the ‘ friends’ where the sun don’t shine.. hehe

  109.  #109Mimi Stein on June 11, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Rebecca, hang in there. I know it hurst but it sounds to me like this man is just not for you. Just jump back into the dating world, once you are ready to start dating again. I found my husband using an online dating service. You can set up multiple dates on the same day if you choose to.

    Just decide what it is that you are really looking for and go out and find him. This will not be an easy process but should be very rewarding.

    Good Luck!

  110.  #110Tam on June 11, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Rejection never feels nice but I got a bit numb to it. Really.

  111.  #111CurvySiren10 on June 11, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    starla, 106- that makes me smile! 🙂 i am worried about you like a mom would. where you know they’re gonna be fine, but you hate to see them going through the process of getting there…

    you’re doing SO great though.

  112.  #112Daria on June 11, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    im feelin sooooo pleasant about my plan to be online today

    its makin me feel totally more worthy!

    than ‘not havin plans’


  113.  #113Starla on June 11, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    I am browsing Baggage Reclaim, and it looks as though “no contact” is geared for on and off again relationships that just won’t die.

    mine is just dead. lol

  114.  #114Tam on June 11, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    I thought in baggage reclaim NC was for letting go of ex bf’s and dead relationships….sure I read it was for us to move on. That’s my intent anyways.

  115.  #115Starla on June 11, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    maybe when i have more time to focus on browsing, I will find more relevant stuff for me:)

  116.  #116Ella on June 11, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Heart re 785 on the previous post.

    Er, yes, the tone feels abrasive and I feel like shutting down. I feel stand offish.

    Feel like shutting down and will just say instead yeah might have been overshare… and I had been waiting to share that for ages…

    I had a script.

    Yes I had some stuff I wanted to say.

    I ignored his joke on purpose… it didn’t feel funny and I did not feel like engaging with that.

    I have been feeling a bit manic recently. Most Sirens here who know me know how triggering this particular situation is for me…

    So yeah, maybe not picture perfect, but actually I do not feel it was FMs gone wrong at all… it was my best I could do at the time.

    And as I mostly very receptive to him, and more importantly him to me, overall the relationship is good.

    But yeah sure, maybe it is something to watch.

    I feel kinda shut down and icky with the judgements in the post 785 though…

    I kind of wanted to say ‘Whatever’ cus I felt misunderstood.

    And usually when something triggers me there is something to learn.

    As it turned out I wasn’t being open as I could have been.

    I wanted to say something first.

    And as for overshare? It depends… I wanted to share all that… so I don’t view it as an overshare. It was perfect for that time.

    Can I learn from it and do better another time? Heall yeah.

    And guess what… after all that I had a bit of a meltdown (the next day) and despite my ‘FMs gone wrong’ he came and got me and sat with me till I felt ok again.

  117.  #117Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Ladies, I understand the curiosity about the message, (especially since I keep bringing it up, sorry). I’m just not ready to share it right now, it’s still raw and painful. When I’m in a better place, I may.
    CurvySiren, awesome that you are in Ga!!! I’m in the little town of Cartersville, about 40 miles north of Atlanta.
    Where are you?

  118.  #118Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Despite feeling generally depressed, I am actually feeling MUCH better about CF. Sending that email on Saturday night is something I should have done muuuch sooner, hehe.

  119.  #119Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Sassy, that’s like telling me no i cannot open my presents before christmas:P aggghhh i hate it

    and i understand <3

  120.  #120CurvySiren10 on June 11, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Sassy, my oldest child was born in Cartersville!! I’m in the Alpharetta area.

    I understand about not wanting to share. Like Starla, I’m just curious/nosy. Sorry if that was an invasive request. Whatever it was, I’m glad it’s helping you stay on your NC horse!

  121.  #121Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    ATW still haven’t give any sign of life. He must know I am mad and he’s not gonna call because he doesn’t like confrontation. I know he won’t call for weeks and maybe months in this situation. He will call later later, when he is sure he can pretend that nothing happened.

    Of course I’m not 100% sure because I’m not in his head. But that’s usually what he does and have been doing for the past 2 years…

    It’s weird because I am not feeling the urge to call him and beg and cry and scream as I usually feel.

    I’m feeling mad because when he was working, he said “I’ll quit my job soon and I’ll have a lot of time for you” and now he quit it and he doesn’t have time for me because he’s partying around. And when he’ll start his new job, he’ll be stressed and still won’t have time for me. It seems that he always have a good excuse to not have time for me. And he can’t admit it. It seems that he doesn’t realise it. I don’t understand and not understanding makes me f*cking pissed!!!

    I’m not feeling the urge to call him and beg for him to repair and to see me, but I so wish I could call him and make him realise but I know it’s not my job to make him realise he makes no sense.

    And I don’t want to call him because I know I ‘m going to feel bad after and I don’t want to feel bad because I’m kind of on a little cloud because of my flirt with you-know-who (ahh I feel guilty at the same time and can’t even say his name!!).

    So no, I don’t feel too much like calling him. And I know he won’t call back. So… I guess that’s it? We’re done?

  122.  #122Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    I am sitting on my hands trying not to contact him. It’s sooo damn painful… Aaahhhh sinking into my feelings. I need a hug. I keep imagining him hugging me – then I feel sad that I’ll never see him again. Yet, he is soooo near, yet soooo far. Mama mia ~ whats a girl to do when she feels this way… Sob sob

  123.  #123Rebecca on June 11, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    I would actually welcome some”tough love” from Sirend. It feels scary but it might help me to heal…dunno..

  124.  #124Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:30 pm

  125.  #125Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 3:30 pm


  126.  #126Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Rebecca your post reads like a drama queen seeking attention.

  127.  #127Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Starla what’s team N C ????

    I want to join all the teams in the world.

    Is there a “team addicted to my flirt with a married men” ?

  128.  #128Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Rebecca #121, is this guy who said you’re just a 1 night stand?

  129.  #129Ella on June 11, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    (((((((Slippin Goddess))))))

    I don’t feel too comfortable about replying to this because the situation feels a little close to home, however I also want to reply.

    Basically I second what Vi said in her reply to you on the previous thread.

    I don’t have the same views as some of the other Sirens which sometimes feel a bit extreme to me, which feels a bit scary to me personally.

    I feel very uncomfortable with this whole underlying theme I keep noticing on the blog at the moment which is something along the lines of –

    ‘If a man takes any kind of drugs or alcohol, or ever has he is an addict. And those men we label as addicts are bad. And addicts can never be cured, and you must dump him’ –

    which to me feels very judgemental and for me personally it feels very triggery and kind of pushed to anxiety…

    Instead of feeling like taking a breath, and calm, and realising there are many shades of grey.

    As this new post from Rori says nothing and no one is perfect… its just whether it sits well with you.

    I know people, and even some Sirens on here, who take drugs and/or alcohol in varying degrees, and also many definitions of addiction.

    Heck I have probably been an ‘addict’ myself in the past. I’m not now.

    I don’t believe that addicts have no boundaries… maybe when they are really ill sure… but I don’t believe they are necessarily bad either… and I also don’t believe that they can’t heal.

    That is BS… ANYONE CAN HEAL!

    Some will, some won’t…

    Anything can happen and we have no control.

    Having said all this the situation you described does not sound as though it feels healthy or good to you right now.

    And that is where the work lies in my opinion.

    I also know how scary it feels to be told to ‘dump’ a man you love.

    That feels like immediate pain and panic to me.

    The RR 3rd way feels to much better.

    Seeing beyond his issues and possible addiction to the person feels better to me. Wondering about whether this person, including his issues, are a good fit for me, and whether they are dealable.

    To balance this taking good care of yourself, having strong boundaries and staying in constant touch with your feelings, and being prepared to put yourself first and say NO to what doesn’t feel good, regardless of any judgement about it.

    To me a man spending my money without my permisission would absolutely cross my boundaries and I imagine I would feel very angry.

    I don’t think you need to do anything drastic.

    Just take some babysteps to take care of you… maybe take a step back and take the time to really notice how you feel about it all without the confusion of his input…

    And as for whether he can change… maybe, maybe not… that is not up to us (that’s the hardest part I know… giving some hugs to both you and me on this one ((((((()))))))

    You don’t have to decide about whether to stay with him or not at the moment… just get on with your day.

    But I do know 1 thing.

    Love can do amazing things and transform many situations… even if it turns out not to be in the way we want… or it does turn out the way we want… either way, throwing love and compassion at you and the situation… mixed with finding some strong boundaries, that won’t do any harm.

    Love to you… you will be fine if you take it gently.

    One babystep at a time.

  130.  #130Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Married MAN* sorry. Hopefully there is only one!! Haha I’m so bad.

  131.  #131Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Team No Contact

    And lol, you’re not addicted. That would require doing it all the time (this is the 2nd married man ever) and not being able to stop even when you tell yourself you’re going to 😛

  132.  #132Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Awww, I say it’s okay to be a drama queen seeking attention here 🙂 Where else are we safe from ourselves but here?:)

  133.  #133Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    I need to start a team “team I don’t give a sh*t and hopefully it’ll stay like that!

  134.  #134Ella on June 11, 2012 at 3:47 pm


    Re 13

    Thank you for posting that for me.


    I feel loved and cared for.

    That post feels so good and inspiring to me… it is a keeper, I am going to copy and paste it to my special Rori file.

  135.  #135Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    I’m not addicted to married men in general. But with this one, we had pretty intense flirt all day again. And I have to admit I love the attention he is giving me.

    Wondering why no single man gives me so much attention? I got attention from single men sometimes, but it stops after a smile or a “hello”.

    No one asks me my phone number and no one text me all day how beautiful I am… And I don’t think it’s because I am not open to it…

    I don’t get it…

  136.  #136Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    I think it’s ok to be a drama queen here too! It’s better being a drama queen attention wh*re here then in face of a man 🙂

  137.  #137Starla on June 11, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Actually, a man coming on that strong before taking you out and getting to know you, is a sign of them being completely unavailable for you, whether they’re married or not.

  138.  #138Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Slippin Goddess I kinda agree with Ella but you have to ask yourself some tough questions. I say this because I reviewed some comments you wrote in November/December 2011 and if this is the same guy I believe you have to move forward with your eyes wide open. At 31 and in a relationship with you for more than a year? it is important to not waste your life.

  139.  #139Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Wow, Curvy Siren, small world. The docs I work for are in Duluth, so I drive thru Alpharetta (cuz I refuse to drive 285).
    I’m only there one day a week now, the other days I’m working from home and watching my baby granddaughter.

  140.  #140CurvySiren10 on June 11, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Sassy, it IS a small world! Crazy! I wish you came thru here more often. 🙂 Duluth is not far from me at all.

  141.  #141Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Starla – oh 🙁 But anyway, I already know he’s unavailable. But you mean available single men don’t do that? That feels sad to read…

    But anyway, no one invites me to go out or tries to know me better either…

  142.  #142Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 4:22 pm


    I feel amazed at how you outdo yourself time and time again! This article is beautiful and profound! I feel honored to be here.

  143.  #143Starla on June 11, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Yeah, in my opinion, any man who starts showering you with attention and compliments all day before taking you out a few times (and even then, sometimes), is emotionally unavailable. I do not trust these guys. I want a grown up who actually knows what he’s saying to be true. Of course I’m the most amazing woman he’s ever met and he wants me more than anything he’s ever wanted — but he doesn’t know that before a few dates!

    In other words, be GLAD you don’t have these kinds of men in your life right now. And the one who is like that is MARRIED so you don’t have to worry about getting swept off your feet and landing squarely on your ass, wondering where he poofed to.

  144.  #144Francesca on June 11, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Ella @128

    My man used to be addicted to the white stuff.

    He is not anymore.

    So yes, I’m with you, there is a cure, if the person having the “disease” is ready to heal.

  145.  #145Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 4:32 pm


    That is EXACTLY what happened to me.

  146.  #146Sassy on June 11, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Curvy, I’ll let you know if anything changes! I’ll be happy to communicate with you either on or off blog if you ever need anything.

  147.  #147Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    Hmm well… that’s food for thought Starla…

    You’re making me step back and re thinking all this…

  148.  #148Gemini on June 11, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Hello all…So far I’ve just been a lurker here, soaking up the wisdom, but just wanted to share something right quick…

    I’ve been dating this guy for the last 3 months and trying out all of Rori’s tools to some extent. I got the ‘Have the Relationship You Want’ ebook about six months ago, skimmed through it and thought ‘That’s it? That’s all I get?’ and went about my merry way. Then I revisited it awhile back and it all made sense in a much more complete, comprehensive way…we must be the change we wish to see!

    Anyway, I guarantee I wouldn’t have made it this far along with dude if I hadn’t been practicing the ideas and tools here. So yesterday we got into this little discussion, slightly heated…he was asking me all these prying questions (legitimately I might add, given some recent non-transparency on my part)…and I was laughing at his questions, like “are you serious?” Then he stops and says in a calm, respectful voice, “I feel belittled when you laugh at my questions, like you don’t take me seriously…and these are serious questions that deserve serious answers.”

    Blam! Way to go with the feeling messages! I see their power now, because I instantly realized the impact of my actions without a hint of defensiveness and I told him as such. Then he was impressed that I heard and understood where he was coming from. So problem solved…we were looking at each other like, wow it’s that easy? High five! 🙂 And the great part is, he’s talking like that because I’ve been talking like that…he wasn’t so skilled before, trust me 😉 Thank you Rori, and thank you ladies!

  149.  #149Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    I have a new long distance CD from Cape Town, South Africa. He contacted me on FB, and we’ve been communicating for about a week. I assume he is a scammer. Would you verify it?

    He says his name is Pettrel Mangroove – that in itself sounds phony. His FB name is Theo Moore if anyone wants to check him out. He says he is a widower. His photos with his kids are entrancing! But I guess he’s just another scammer. I am playing with the idea of going along with it for a while, until he shows his true colors, and then reporting him to FB, LOL! What do you think/feel?

    He wrote: You do know communication brakes all boundaries and you should always make out time to write to someone close to you knowing how each day and time goes. You told me less about your work so I do not know how it goes but from the look of things I think you spend more time work than with yourself.

    I thank you for seeing things that way but there is a whole lot to it and now that the kids are coming of age I would want them to have a life of there own where as I would be the father that they need. Yes I spend time with them but they where just too young not knowing the difference from time and toys that is why I want to spend more quality time with them after these project. You know as much as you work you need tripple that time for yourself as you are human and you need to eat think and live too. There are lovley beaches down here that I know you would love if you ever thought about coming sometime. Its is always beatiful when the moon is full while one walks the beach that peace of mind you get and the song they sea sings easy the beat of the heat.

    Whats the reason why we live for tomorrow is hope and thats why we dream hoping someday we live them. would like to be aladin meeting the princess to much trouble and rick been the frog prince but which ever way it goes it is nice knowing love would always find a way. I do not know why you raise your guard so high that you fail to live your own life. I may not knnow you too well but out of the little I know about you I do know you have a gentle heart. Please do not let your past have a hold over your future as I know nothing of any of them and should not have to suffer for there dids and all. I know too may things may have happened to you and losing hope in life is like losing life itself. I am not saying or making promises that I would be better than they where or worse my friend all am saying is that we are going to take it each day as it come.

    Lex is getting better and yes his vitals is checked around the clock my Mrs Gift the nanny that has been taking care of them all these years as hers and I wonder what I would have done without her and he little ones playing with them too. I do not know how much you know the African continet so it would be little bit hard to say the names but I would anyways as sooner or later you would have to know or call them on your own time lol. I own a small time construction company and trying to do well for my self for now as the business is always overseas when you want it big time. There is a saying in my community if that a doctor would never be recongnised by his household. I do not look at women I hear them talk and yes I do want to have someone from another part of the world. The world is big with different people cultures and heritage and I want to be part of it. I have spent a whole lot of time in my hole hiding from the pain of my past but am getting bettet now having to share my days with you and is that a bad thing having a friend from the other side of the pond. I should be asking the same too.

    You should not do that my dear for I know she is in a better place now and am stronger now. When she died believe me I thought a part of me would never come back to life but everything takes time. I thank God for the strength over the years and the health of the kids too. You know its not easy at all Brenda but with each passing day I put them in my prayers and hope everything would be alright and it has been these far and thats one thing to be thankful for right. We have to be stronger with one another and take each passing day as it comes. Yes am fine now as I try not to be down as there are so many people looking up to me and the workers union I can not show them weakness not even for a minute.

    There something in my mind that i have always wanted to talk about all the feeling that have come to stay in my heart and everything that surrounds me, honestly i do not know if these is love or affection and whatever it is i have made up my mind not to search anymore cos something tells me that i have found the one for me funny if you are my destiny that only time would show its fold.I know it weird the way i tell you how i feel most times but on thing i would love is to be the one person you see in the morning and before and after you say your prayer and to sleep at night as i put you in my prayers for its God who opened the heavens for me to see you face that day i did for its one i would not forget, you and i know that you have been through a lot and when anything bothers i want to be the one that you call and in whatever situation or choices you make always keep in mind that i would always come running from a thousand miles whenever you call even when am not i still would want to be there by your side like a shadow from now till the end of time.Be by your side when the sun rises or when the moon loses it gaze, i do not want to be a vision or imagination i want to be in your reality flesh and blood.I have always wanted a family and i want to be in your family i want you to be all my business so that you could manage me as i would be the man you would want to see you would trust me with your heart with my love guaranteed. I love to be there for you in what ever you do every single deed and moments, i do not want to miss any single detail for i know that they would take almost a life time to see again i know that i am human and i have my flaws as i am not perfect but could trend a little to perfection,i want you to know that with you there would be no more lie and infidelity for i have my morals intact and i know what i want and am not scared of sharing my life with someone like you if you give me a chance. when i was lost in my own shadows not knowing what to extent in life then you came in like a miracle i have come to see you as my safe heaven to be honest if my life was a puzzle you have answered all My dear, i do not want to be apart form you after having these that you have given to me i just want to be the man that said his mind and how he felt not the one that was nice but never said anything, you have come to give me peace even without knowing and very little details and happiness no man would want to lose something these special . If only you give me you heart trusting me not to brake it then only you realize if you told yourself the truth or not for you never know if you try. I know you be a perfect partner and I would want to share it with you if you willing to give us a try.

    Bye now my dearest friend and hope you give us a try and leaving the rest to God.


  150.  #150Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    “In other words, be GLAD you don’t have these kinds of men in your life right now. And the one who is like that is MARRIED so you don’t have to worry about getting swept off your feet and landing squarely on your ass, wondering where he poofed to.”

    Wow I think I just discovered why this flirt made me feel so good. You got it right Princess Starla!! He’s showering me with attention but I am not afraid he’s going to poof…

    Hmmm that is pretty insane. Yik…

  151.  #151Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    I’m feeling sad.

    I want someone to tell me I’m beautiful and loves watching walk next to his desk at the office (or anywhere!), and I want this someone to be available. I don’t want this someone to say things like this just because it put excitement in his boring married man’s life.

    It s*cks that I can’t attract available step up men…

  152.  #152Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Today I was talking to Super just before we left work for the day, and he started undoing his belt and taking off his shirt, showing a muscle shirt underneath, LOL! He said, “Please excuse me, I’m not stripping in front of you. I’m getting my vest on for my motorcycle.”

    I was lovin the show and my imagination was going wild, but I just said, “Oh, that’s ok. That’s a nice vest.” It was a protective body-shaped vest. I really like him! I told him about my sleep apnea, excessive sleepiness issue, and he was totally cool with it, saying he will definitely work with me. I told him I would get my meds that keep me awake as soon as possible.

    This morning I was being naughty and tried to come on the blog on my work laptop. I could read Rori’s article but I was unable to comment. A pop-up screen said a filter was on.

    I felt really embarrassed and ashamed! So that is why I am changing back to Esteemed, in case anyone there is reading what I wrote. I don’t know if this will make a difference, but I hope so. I hope you all know who I am, those who I want to know.

  153.  #153Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    I’m feeling pathetic…

  154.  #154Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 5:23 pm


    150 – “It s*cks that I can’t attract available step up men…”

    How bout a reframe:

    I feel so empowered that I can attract available step up men everywhere I go! I am such a Siren!

  155.  #155Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Hmm Esteemed… It’s fun to reframe, but if it’s not true, why would I say such a thing??

  156.  #156Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    Hi Lizka,

    I spent ten minutes writing this long post to you to share my experience, because I also had an unfruitful affair with a married man. Much like yours, it also started at work with him showering me with lots of attention, and I lost it all! *Grrrr*

    I will gather all of my senses and write to you again, okay? 🙂

  157.  #157Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Awww Radiant Love, that is so nice of you. Yes, I think it would help me to read a similar story. I feel kind of lost right now…

  158.  #158Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    Secret Kitten Code:

    /.b iuuu7j

    If you can interpret it, you will have unlocked all the secrets to the power of love! LOL

  159.  #159Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Is there a post from the past that talks about relationships with married or unavailable men (but unavailable in the sense of “in a relationship”…? Or any newsletter?

  160.  #160Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Hmm, is anyone in the Love Forever Teleclass?

    It is 20 minutes into it and I am still on hold for Rori to join…does anyone know if the night was changed or anything?

  161.  #161Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Ooops, I had it wrong.

  162.  #162Femininewoman on June 11, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Lizka I have seen her say she does not coach women involved with married men in response to someone who wrote her a letter. I hope I can find it.

  163.  #163Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Sirens I need help.

    I’ve been texting with MarriedMan since I’m back from work and things are getting pretty serious. He’s coming really strong and I’m not sure if it’s good for me.

    I need a FM to tell him I need to back up for tonight.

    I started to write “Things have started to feel pretty intense. I need to back up for tonight. I’m feeling a bit confused right now. I’ll see you tomorrow, ok?”

    I’m not sure if this is a good FM. What do you think? Anything you would add?

  164.  #164Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm


    It’s ok, or you could just say I have to get up early and I’m really tired. It would feel good to take a soothing shower right now.

  165.  #165Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Esteemed, I don’t think saying I’m feeling tired and a shower would feel good is very authentic because I am not feeling tired and I don’t want a shower, I think the situation feels intense and I am feeling lost in it…

    Thank you for the suggestion anyway 🙂

  166.  #166Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Hi Lizka,

    About three years ago I fell hard for this married man. He was my supervisor at work and I really looked up to him at first. I had zero sexual and romantic experience with men back then and I was on a path of learning. I was coming into my sexuality, femininity, attractiveness that had eluded me when I was much younger. My upbringing was highly spiritual too so I spent most of my time homing my intellectual and spiritual skills rather than my sexual ones. I come from an arranged marriage culture and I was not interested in marriage at all. My family and I we went through lots of heavy events, so I just really didn’t have a lot of room or space in my person to deal with love and romance, my family’s well being and learning to become a caring human being pretty much occupied all of my time.

    So anyways, times were tough at work and during this time this man was not my supervisor anymore, but I turned to him a few times about all the petty silly stuff that was bringing me down at work. At the time I was actually interested in someone else entirely. But he cuaght me by surprise when one day he asked me if I was seeing anyone. He said if he was not obligated he would have asked me out, and that I seemed like an excellent catch. So it was a sweet encounter the first time and one where I put to rest and said we cannot go further. I avoided him for a week. Then after a really tough week of more petty politics, I decided to shoot him an email saying hi. I felt we will be friends as it is set between us. It did not stay in the friend zone. He showered, I mean showered me with attention and our banter was very playful and fun. I had never felt like this before! I am extremely shy around men, especially those I like. Finally I lost my job and he and I had a large physical distance between us that kept us from being intimate. We kissed once, and it was my first.

    But despite the showering of attention, looooong periods of time would go by before I would hear from him. Weeks and weeks, and a few times even a month. He poofed once like Starla said, but showed up again after 5 months and called me. During this whole time of teasing and flirting, I felt very torn. I could not fully decide if we should or we shouldn’t. It was different minute by minute. One minute was a no, keep it at a friend level. The next was, I don’t think I am able to! Finally I just decided to be gentle with myself, and that I was not capable of cutting it off as I felt at the time, I needed his presence to make it through in my life (I was going through a terrible time. My family and I were in dire straits, eating only once a day, making sure the bills were paid with no jobs, not being able to take the car to go anywhere because we did not have more than a few spare pennies for gas). I felt like I could come into my sexuality with this man. And that the best I could do at this point was keep talking to him, not expect anything more in return, and definitely not take him away from his wife and family. At this point this is my growth, I needed him and I had to stick with it. In January 2011 we had my very first intimate encounter, but no sex. Just kissing and touching and I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, so I just followed his lead.

    Then last year around this time I accidentally stumbled across his wife’s FB page. It was wide open. I read she was having a baby. I felt shaken and confused. I called up a friend of mine in Virginia and just cried. I hadn’t heard from him in a month and a half, we were supposed to meet in between that time and he had apologetically cancelled twice, and here I learn he was having a baby. I felt so silly. I still leaned back, did not contact him, did not let him know that I knew. I spoke to a very good friend of mine who works there and she confirmed that he was having a baby but he didn’t tell anyone at work. She went and congratulated him and he just said, “Mmhmm, thanks.” She said, “You didn’t tell me.” To which he replied, “I didn’t tell a lot of people.”

    So that was June 5th, then on July 5th I get a text from him. The first words were, “Hey you.” I cannot believe looking back how elated I was to recieve that playful banter. Wow. I responded with equal playfulness and he said he was thinking about that time we met in January. Plus it was hot in Dallas last year (record three digits) and he asked if I had ever gone skinny dipping. We finally decided to just meet and go swimming instead, and no dipping (my request). Well I had learned very little swimming while growing up, so I arranged to learn and meet him and have a memorable moment and time with him. I felt like I needed that. But there was something I needed to tell him, and so he and I arranged to meet even just for 15 minutes during the last week of July. My car had issues, it was a good hour drive to meet him halfway between his town and mine, so a woman that was like my second mum drove me (and thank God she was there). Because I went, and he did not show up at all. I texted, called…no response. None even to tell me he wasn’t coming. Thank God my second mum Eva was there, she had tissues and paper towels readily available.

    Days even after that no response from him. All I wanted was one moment. Just one. I wanted to tell him he reminded me of my father (in hindsight…that feels like a lie, because my father was very considerate and caring of others, which this man proved he was not. But that was how I viewed him at the time). I didn’t get to say what I wanted, I was to go to my grave with this feeling and bury it alive within me so long as I drew breath. It was a hard period, but I decided I needed to embark on a new endeavor (which was to take Tantra sessions) and get my mind off of him as soon as possible and without anger.

    Come September I texted him that I heard good news and congratulations, and that I honestly wanted him too be happy. I also said I hoped he had a daughter (I used to tease him that he should have all daughters to keep him on his toes. Then later my good friend who worked with him told me that he had mentioned he hoped he had a girl. He had a son, though). So I was set to come to California in December, and I met the most beautiful, healing soul five days before I left, and one day before I learned that Married Man had a son.

    Looking back on all of this, I have one big regret and that is I wasted so much time and energy on him. After seeing how loverboy treats me now, with so much love, care and chivalry. It makes me fill up with regret that I wasted so much precious and beautiful energy on a man who in the end just wasn’t worth it. I thank God I’m through that period, and never again will I put myself in that place.

  167.  #167Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 6:30 pm


    That is how it starts. With very intense texting. That’s how it happened with me. Go ahead and read my post above. Lots of love to you.

  168.  #168Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Lots of luck too! (((Lizka)))

  169.  #169Esteemed on June 11, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    {{{Radiant Rising}}},

    I admire you for sharing your story. I hope it helps many.

  170.  #170Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Oh Radiant I feel teary reading your story and I just want to hug you. 🙁

    I’m sorry you had to go through that. But I’m happy you shared your story. I feel moved and I am definitely re thinking this “harmless” flirt (that is actually less and less harmless…).

    Also, the more I think about it, the more it makes no sense. In my life, I’m trying to focus on attracting “the one”, and this is going to take my energy and time away… with an unavailable man.

    I don’t know. It’s weird. At the same time, I’m feeling like I have nothing better to do anyway because I DON’T MEET any available man and I’ve never been single for so long and it’s really like I will never meet one.

    I feel so sad right now. 🙁

  171.  #171Lizka on June 11, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Anyway ladies, I’ve got to go to sleep. It’s way passed my bed time, lol.

    Thank you all for your support.

    I’ll decide what to do with this situation tomorrow. For now I’m just too exhausted.

    But Radiant thank you SO MUCH for your story, I think it’s gonna be helpful for my decision. I’ll let you know what I decide.


  172.  #172Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Esteemed, thank you. You were in the thick of it all! So thank you for that.

    Lizka, I can understand that feeling that there are not any available men giving you that attention. I felt that way too. I was interested in someone else entirely before Married Man intercepted there. Then I met loverboy and I can hardly believe the attention he gives and by choice! Men want and need love too. They need to give, they need to feel needed. I promise a new chapter will open up for you too. I hope you do not feel sad for too long. Try to remember that love is like a butterfly. You have to let it fly around before it finds its way and lands on your shoulder. But it is the type of butterfly that is eternally magical. But it needs to fly all over the place before it can be steady on its way. Just keep living. Love is all about being alive and being in the full range of your woman hood. (((YOU)))

  173.  #173ReceivingGirl on June 11, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    Rough day. My grandma had hip surgery last week. I went to see her at rehab today and she’s not good in the head. She’s very negative, confused, drugged up, not completely with it, etc. She’s drugged up on pain meds. She said she’s miserable.

    Mr. Observant text me that he was doing better. He’s still not right and he says that and asks how my garden is every time. I think he wants to communicate, but that’s all he can think of to say. Then, he goes quiet again. I think tomorrow will be a week he’s been on meds, so 10 days is just around the corner. Hopefully, there will be a huge difference.

    I feel so worried about them both. I came home had dinner and now ready for bed. It’s tough when my day starts at 5:30 and I don’t get to rest until after 9. Tomorrow will be a little better. I didn’t plan on staying at the rehab place for as long as I did. I won’t be visiting tomorrow, but will have to probably cut my grass and do a few things around the house.

    Even though I didn’t feel like it, I washed my face, moisturized, brushed my teeth, flossed and will put lotion on before bed.

    My legs feel tight from sitting so much today. I feel sad when people’s mind are not right. It’s hard and they know it and that makes it even harder.

  174.  #174Radiant Rising on June 11, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Good night Lizka. Take your time. Whatever you decide, you have support in me. Your story need not have to be my story. 🙂 But if you ever need to talk, we can exchange emails.

  175.  #175Starla on June 11, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    🙂 I met up with my cynical girl friend and had a great time with her. I didn’t mention CF once. I didn’t even think about him. We even went to the restaurant that is CF’s pet name I had for him, and met at the bar he and I went to on our first date.

    I feel so good. I am so glad I sent that dang email to him. And saw his stupid POF profile where I could see that, no, he wasn’t magically healed for some other woman.

    I still love CF and always will. But I am feeling more and more ready to move on:)

    I also treated myself to prime rib, and it felt marvelous!!

  176.  #176Starla on June 11, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    (((((((((((receiving girl)))))))))))))))))))

    I wish I could hold some of that weight of the world with you that you’re carrying.

  177.  #177Starla on June 11, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    wow one of my bosses just commented on my facebook that he could picture me in paris in the 1920s hanging out with Hemingway. I feel EXQUISITE reading that. Like someone really SEES me. 😀

  178.  #178LoveAlways on June 11, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    OMG – this is soooooo cooool! I feel like signing up for belly dancing classes – I wanna do this too!


  179.  #179Linda on June 11, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    THe older I get the less and the longer I am single the less energy games and wasting time. I invested too much time in the last relationship. But for this, I will forgive myself. I was being pretty hard on me, almost shaming myself for being stupid and not caring for myself better.

    I have been reading alot of your stories, my heart goes out to many of you. We all want the same thing, to be known and loved.

    On the last thread Dominique helped me see that I am grieving a loss. Not the loss of this man because I dont want him in my life, but that the hopes and dream I had tied to him is what the cause of my sadness. THe hopes and dream I had that were directly related to a letter he wrote me several months ago. He promised me many things and asked for me to forgive him for the terrible things he had done in the past. His promises never came true.

    Those promised things are the very things that were deep in my heart, mind and subconscious. I know now without a shadow of doubt that this is why I hung in there for so long.

    In post #17 Femininewoman a feeling message example… She wrote this line:

    I’ve decided not to hold onto that anymore, and I’m setting you, and myself, free from that remark. (in my case the words of that letter)

    At least I am able to put my finger on what is going on inside me, for that I am very grateful.


  180.  #180Starla on June 11, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    wow lovealways, that woman is in INCREDIBLE shape. Her body is sooo strong. I would like to achieve THAT in my belly dancing. hooooly cow. i feel inspired. thank you so much for sharing:)

  181.  #181Starla on June 11, 2012 at 8:48 pm


  182.  #182Brandylion on June 11, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    It’s been a busy day, so I haven’t caught up the blog yet. But:

    I feel indignant! How could he not want to be with me? I am AMAZING! He thew away one of the best things ever to happen to him out of fear. I feel sad the good things are gone, but I now I just feel sorry for him.

    There are a number of attractive single men in my class that meets for the next three weeks. I am going to have a good time and just enjoy myself doing physics with them!

  183.  #183Daria on June 11, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    ack go away belief

    i love bein called beautiful and theres nothing to worry about it meaning anything


    i feel so mad too

    mad at men right now

    mad at blog too

  184.  #184Daria on June 11, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Esteemed – I would not talk to anyone out of the country that is not available to immediately visit me (traveler)

    that is a huge investement of my energy that is going NOWHERE – abandoning myself and draining my energy

  185.  #185Daria on June 11, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    i feel so sad!

  186.  #186Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    it happend!

    i was really feelin all the sadness and stuff

    and a guy decided to come see me!

    AND i think theres another guy ready to and even another one who might have been down!

    yay manifesting youve been coming for me TIME ND TIME AGAIN AN AGAIN!!!

    thank you tahnk you thank you magical power of ME!

  187.  #187Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    the guy who was my first pof meeting when i came back from Romania… (and poofed)

    is now hitting me up on POF again!


  188.  #188Daria on June 11, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    how does this HAPPEN?

    time and time again?

    and my getting the money i need for stuff since i ‘gave up’ on ‘getting’ money 2 years ago?

    time and time again?

    how does it happen

    and how can i just TRUST it

    even MORE!

    so i dont get all anxious that it wont happen… wen it just does and does?

  189.  #189Ella on June 12, 2012 at 12:07 am


    The married man’s behaviour is no refelection on you or your attractiveness…

    You are gorgeous and they way to reframe this is

    ‘Ow look I am attracting ALL sorts of men, some available, some not. So I get to take my pick! Go me!’

    if there are icky feelings when one you feel attracted to is not available embrace that but you don’t need to do anything about it with him.

    Btw there is a big difference between in a relationship and married. Rori has written about this.

    A while ago I had a married man lavish attentions on me. It felt nice at the time, until I realised he was married.

    I came here and had a Siren chat and Sirens were pretty firm with me…

    His story was something about a marriage of convenience, blah, blah, blah… He said his wife didn’t mind him seeing other women.

    I said ‘Ok, introduce me to her and she can tell me that herself!’

    Needless to say he didn’t.

    I said ‘I don’t date married men’ and that was the end of.

    He still used to try and make contact but he lost all the charge and false courage because he could feel my boundary was strong.

    Its so not worth it.

    Its simple for me, I want to feel like no 1 in my relationship.

    Hope this helps.


  190.  #190Ella on June 12, 2012 at 12:09 am

    I would like to see a coach / counsellor / mentor on a weekly basis.

    At the moment I don’t know who that could be…

    Or where I would find them.

    I would like someone who could support me within my relationship, but also with my career!

    Wonder if I can manifest this??

    I manifested an accountant to help me organise my books…


  191.  #191Heart on June 12, 2012 at 1:08 am

    # 116 – Ella ~ I feel bad you felt standoffish and shut down. I feel compassionate and guilty. I don’t want to hurt you. What do you think of this?

    I feel surprise it was a script. I feel embarrassed that I don’t really know more about scripting. I feel skeptical about it.
    I feel headachey and overloaded. I feel irritated by reading the same point a couple of times – ‘I don’t think it was overshared. It was perfect.’ I don’t believe you. What are our thoughts?

    I Feel angry and triggered by the words ‘manic’ and ‘meltdown’. I am feeling manipulated. I want to lash out at you. I want to hurt you and put you down. What do you think?

    I am wondering -Did the Universe send Ella into my life to rmind me to be more playful?

  192.  #192Tam on June 12, 2012 at 1:10 am

    Good morning Sirens,
    wow lots of interesting activity on the blog…
    about men with addictions it’s maybe a bit like men with wives..they have something that takes No1 in their lives…I find. I had a guy once and found out that he spent his nights gambling instead of with me – it just wasn’t working. However, I do believe men can change, one of my CD’s told me that he was an addict 10 years ago (drugs, all sorts), and he just decided to give it all up one day and went back to University, took two degrees and has a fantastic career now and is a very calm and super nice guy. So he’s living proof that men CAN change if THEY want to…..they can!

  193.  #193Tam on June 12, 2012 at 1:18 am

    @Starla and Lizka, it is true in my view that men who come on too strong too soon are either very needy and have issues (or perhaps they are very much in love but I don’t believe someone falls in love after meeting you once or twice, it’s physical attraction mostly).
    My last bf told me within a couple of weeks that he loved me and worse, expected me to say it too!! I hardly knew him and it was a red flag, but then I thought ‘awwww, he loves me, how nice’….my intuition was right, despite all the ‘I love you’s’and ‘I love you forever’, ‘I want to get married’ bla bla, as soon as the first little issue came up, he showed himself to be full of anger from his divorce and told me that he isn’t having enough s*x as he needs it at least twice a day and his ex-wife witheld s*x too…OMG. Then all this other stuff came out how I didn’t do this and didn’t do that bla bla – so I felt like he had been smiling and been nice to me and all the while all this anger in him. And after 6 months he just poofed. Just like that. Yet the ‘I love yous’.
    However, Mr U never says anything involving love or like, but I know for a fact although we are not in a ralationship, he would do anything for me, and he loves me much more than the above guy ever did or ever could. He would never poof – ever. If I called him now, and it was 4am, and would need him, he’d help/call/do something. He’d be there. He would always ‘rescue’ me and would never drop me ever. He just can’t do relationship. Well, with me but most likely with anyone. Blah.
    Oh well, day 8 NC….he he.

  194.  #194Tam on June 12, 2012 at 1:25 am

    I think real love you can feel coming from the other person….not so much words (but they help too). When it’s only mainly physical attraction or playfulness or inauthenticity – our intuition picks it up….sooner or later.
    Married men can fall in love with someone else too, but I do believe mainly, when they show an interest, they just like the thrill and distraction from their marriage…and I do not want to be that distraction for them, so nowadays I stay well away…

  195.  #195Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 1:33 am

    Lizka I feel concerned, upset and nervous reading about hte married man flirting with you.
    I’m just going to say it.

    You are playing with fire.

    I once ended up in a “relationship” with a married man years ago because he told me he was not married when we met. Then it came out that he was and I didn’t end it right away because he gave me a LOT of attention every day….his story was like oh we are separated blah blah blah but he was full of $#it….and it was eating at me so I finally ended the relationship…but I was devastated.

    Married men who flirt and come on strong like that are just one thing: PIGS.

    My advice is to stop replying to the messages and emails cold turkey. But act totally normal and professional in the office. If he asks you out, you say “I”m sorry I don’t spend time with married men, but thanks!” Then, RUN.

  196.  #196Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 1:33 am

    Thanks Feminine Woman ~ I DO agree I’m being a DRAMA QUEEN. I just can’t seem to get out of this dark, horrible place that I feel I am in mentally, and it is driving me nuts. I wish I could control it. It’s awful mentally. I keep sinking into my feelings. I keep myself busy. But whenever I have a quiet moment the pain and depression I feel is overwelming. And I know that all I am feeling is disappointment – and it annoys me that I feel like this. But I do, and I can’t seem to stop it. I just want the depressed feeling to go away permantently. I feel I am managing it, and coping with it but it is still there in the background..

  197.  #197Heart on June 12, 2012 at 1:38 am

    Lizka – Dude…He’s married….like seriously. Tell him to eat sh*t and die. Put a little smiley face after you text him that 🙂 It will soften the blow. Don’t get suckered into a situation like that.
    Wait someone advised you to tell the MarriedGuy that you are going to take a shower? Roflmao! OMG. He’s just going to think you’re coming on to him. Don’t say that. Please oh please no.

  198.  #198Heart on June 12, 2012 at 1:40 am

    I’m in my boy energy right now…I’ll be shifting back to girl in a bit

  199.  #199Tam on June 12, 2012 at 1:44 am

    Heart, you are too funny, I loved that comment…but maybe Lizka shouldn’t use those exact words, since she has to work with him, right? Ha!!
    About the shower, yeah, agree, NO WAY!!!
    And in any case, why make excuses for getting away? The truth is usually the most powerful tool we have. ‘I don’t feel good carrying on texting with a married man’ – should do the trick, or something to that effect..

  200.  #200Heart on June 12, 2012 at 1:47 am

    Rebecca – I think you should contact this guy and let him reject you again. I know it’s tricky but it could propel you Forward. You’re still holding on because of the ‘if only’. I think it will help you let go sooner.

  201.  #201Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 1:54 am

    June 11, 2012 – 3:34 pm
    Rebecca #121, is this guy who said you’re just a 1 night stand?

    Yes! Unfortunately…

  202.  #202Heart on June 12, 2012 at 1:58 am

    # 199 Tam -Hi :)…oh right..she has to work with him. I forgot about that…lol…yes, I agree. Your approach seems best.

  203.  #203Vi on June 12, 2012 at 2:00 am

    SUNSHINE, sharing with you felt exciting and good..:)) and the processing felt a little scary…:)) and for me it felt also as if we were following the footsteps leading to an unknown place and I felt not alone and it was fun!..:)

  204.  #204Vi on June 12, 2012 at 2:06 am

    ESTEEMED, love your new name, beautiful Siren Goddess! Love to you!

  205.  #205Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 2:08 am

    Heart ~ thanks for your response. Maybe I will try that. I’ll let you know how it goes..

    Originally he wanted to carry on in a friends wirh benefits type situation but I felt icky about it, obviously as we are not in a relationship and I hadn’t even thought about
    him that way.

    So now he is ignoring me and I am trying to ignore him. I don’t know what he wants. He says he’s really attracted to me but he isn’t going to pursue me. But he’s said he wants to keep on sleeping with me.

    This has terrified me as I don’t feel strong enough to say ‘no’. Although I did say ‘no’. If I lean forward then he will think that is what I want.

  206.  #206Heart on June 12, 2012 at 2:23 am

    Rebecca – he wants exactly what he has told you he wants…I suppose.

    But, If you’re not sure…I suggest you text/call him and ask him. Write something down. Remember you are doing this with the motivation to Get Hurt. As weird as it may seem.
    Write it down – share it here – and send it to him tomorrow or end of the week.

  207.  #207Vi on June 12, 2012 at 2:24 am

    Cool video, thank you!
    This part with the sword feels absolutely disarming…:) and mesmerizing.. the girl has the true “weapon” – feminity…:)) and feels good about it and expresses it freely and needs a sword only as an accessory to her beautiful dance .. mmm…:)

  208.  #208Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 2:42 am

    Heart ~ Mmmm… Okay… I will try….

  209.  #209Daria on June 12, 2012 at 2:48 am

    Omg. I feel so scared . My dad is doing a I’m mad thing a d he says well talk tomorrow . Ugh. This being real w people thing feels so uncomfortable.

    I feel miserable.

    I also feel wat better:

    Than before.

    Ouch shim.

    I’m tewsKking

    Like a tweak monster

    I dono why


    Tonite: shutdown



  210.  #210Daria on June 12, 2012 at 2:50 am

    I feel pist!

    I don’t want to not be friends over being real

    I feel pist Hoddess

    Feels scary

    Pink coco puffs feel sweet


  211.  #211Daria on June 12, 2012 at 2:56 am

    I eftd I wana feel soft and fluffy

  212.  #212Heart on June 12, 2012 at 3:00 am

    Oh noes…I just made an Fb Status update and it came right after Manboy’s and I feel scared he’s going to think I did it to get his attention. My little girl is scared he knows I miss him. And I feel angry with myself that I even went on FB. Why do I like Manboy? Ick. I’m scared. I feel expectant. I feel angry. Is FB hurting my chances of ending this IR?

  213.  #213Vi on June 12, 2012 at 3:00 am

    Yay! And I feel envious of how feminine and expressive and sexy that girl on the video feels..:)
    Looks like someone is going to sign up for a dance class the next month…:) It feels scary – a good sign that I HAVE to explore this!

  214.  #214Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 3:18 am

    I feel so confused right now.. Even after everything that has happened, if we dont talk about the issues and ignore them we get along but in the back of my head its still eating away. I wake up in a morning with things on my mind and it’s setting me in the wrong mood for the day.

    I need to get a life honestly.. I’ve finished uni and I’m awaiting to start my job. I’ve been spending alot of time staying at my boyfriends as he lives over an hour away and we share a car so I have freely been able to get home. I’ve barely been out the house for a week, even whilst hes at work.

    Think I need to get home and get out, see friends etc..
    Might make me see things clearer

    @Femininewoman #13 & #15

    I would love this to happen for me..

  215.  #215Heart on June 12, 2012 at 3:37 am

    wow…And we’re back…wow ok. I feel really good now. I also feel so curious about that Fear. Goodness! My Update just appeared right after Manboy’s and I felt a jolf of Terror. Why did I fel that way? Somebody explain it to me. I make no sense.

    Anyway…I went out side and it was raining and it felt good and I started thinking about my perfect man. And I started wondering what he was doing. Where he was…etc and I bought a snack.

  216.  #216Tam on June 12, 2012 at 3:46 am

    Rebecca…urgh..yes, assume he wants exactly what he says. I have been told the ‘let’s be friends with benefits’ line and the ‘let’s be friends’ and I did not believe it as the actions seemed to show something different. When I started believing the words and took a ‘no’ for a ‘no’, it all became easier.
    Don’t think you can change him…don’t get trapped, honour your feelings and your boundaries…
    and if you need to get hurt to see it, then go for it. I needed it too, but wish you didn’t torture yourself further. Easier said then done, I am also still working on it…:(

  217.  #217Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 3:49 am

    Heart ~ why do you feel bad for missing him (manboy)?

    Also why fo you call him manboy? Am feeling curious..

  218.  #218Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 3:56 am

    Hi Ladies!

    Thank you all to all those who have send me their suggestion about the married man story. This is very helpful. I’m now thinking of a good way to tell him I can’t go there.

    Some of you will think I don’t need to explain, but I feel I have to give at least (in FW) a short explanation since he is working with me and he’s sitting like right next to me so I will have to see him every day.

    So no, I can’t just poof, or tell him he’s a pig.

  219.  #219Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 3:56 am

    Tam ~ thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom with me. It feels really comforting that someone can rationalise things for me when my mind is being anything BUT rational.

    And thinking about it the fact that I feel pressure to sleep with him says a lot about whats really going on. I would just be doing it to please him and keep him happy. See I am a people pleaser. I wouldn’t be doing it for me, I would be doing it for him, because that’s what HE wants. I feel so scared that I am so desperate for him to like me, that I would put myself in this horrible, vulnerable position. I feel like I hate myself now. It is so self destructive.. Why am I doing it? Why am I soooo desperate for HIM to like me? It’s like I’ve put him on a ridiculously high pedestal… Grrrrr… I feel angry at myself..

  220.  #220Ella on June 12, 2012 at 3:57 am


    I don’t know really.

    I feel pleased hearing that you don’t want to hurt me, and that you feel compassion. Pleased and relieved.

    I still feel a bit icky with this interaction.

    I feel blase hearing you don’t believe me…

    I also still feel defensive. I feel like GRAOOOOR lion roaring and I want to say I don’t care (but I guess that’ probably not true) – Blase, irritated? I want to lash out too.

    I feel bad hearing what I believe about the situation being labelled as untrue.

    I am trying to practice love and compassion for myself, instead of beating myself up with a stick if I get things not perfect, and I feel like beaten down for that.

    I am wondering why I am feeling so triggered by this??

    Hearing about feeling manipulated I feel suprised… as I am talking about *my* stuff. *I* did feel manic and meltdown.

    I notice I am feeling a bit judgemental.

    I know most Sirens are wise, and that sometimes, I, and other Sirens can be defensive or ‘deaf’ so I am trying to stay open.

    And yet I am feeling defensive of my efforts.

    I feel like a stompy, teenager stamping my feet because I thought I did it right, or at least as best I could, and it feels like being picked up by a teacher.

  221.  #221Heart on June 12, 2012 at 3:59 am

    Rebecca – I call him Manboy because he acts like a little boy sometimes.
    I feel scared he’ll know I miss him. I feel bad ..I feel disappointed in myself I guess..

  222.  #222smile on June 12, 2012 at 4:00 am

    The articles from baggage reclaim are a useful read! Thank you for putting this on here. A good luck message to all of you trying to keep the NC going.

    I thought I was feeling okay, I thought I had a plan, now I feel scared to make a wrong move. He told me he didn’t think he was ready. I listened to this, I followed all of Rori’s tools, I haven’t contacted him. Ive got on with my life, It has been hard but what else could I do. I know you cant change someones mind.

    Only now he is back in touch!! The first time he texed but I was out. He said could he call me tomorrow? He did. He was amazed we didnt argue. He called me again the next day too. I was out so called him back later for a quick chat. Then he texed me in the morning the following day. we talked but then I needed to drive so he said speak later? He called me again that night. We talked via facetime so we could see each other. He was repecting that I didnt want to speak via text all the time. We started connecting again. 4 hours later we found it difficult to hang up. he told me I was beautiful and he missed me. I just said thank you…eeek didnt know how to react.

    I have been practising using lots of feeling messages with him. AMAZINGLY he started using them too! THANK YOU RORI! we didnt talk about why the relationship went wrong though which was good. instead the conversation naturally led us to recall our first day together. so recalled all our feelings of how we felt that day.

    When we were on facetime he showed me round his room. I noticed he still had all his stuff in boxes still from when he left a few months ago. He said he wasnt ready to un pack them just yet.

    I’m thinking this is a good sign!

    I thought this guy was my future, we were happy and in love and talked about children etc. The dynamics changed when we moved in together and he lost his job. Money was a big issue and knowing the tools i do now i would have handelled it all different.

    I want to keep this going but with boundaries in place.

    My confusion comes in where I need to know where this is going. which I know is not a good converstaion to have and dont want it.

    Instead I am just going to keep going on with my life and let him do the contacting still. Im trying not to get overexcited that he still has feelings for me which he has shared. I want to inspire him to not be able to live without me by concentrating on myself.

    Im looking for reassurance that I am doing the right thing here as I dont want to ruin it through my insecurrities. I mean he might not even want to get back together?

    Arrrrgggghhhh! I will just concentrate on creating the here and now moment and now worry about the furutre just yet. I have already told him what I am looking for from a relationship and i know he is looking for the same as he has said.

    Arrrggggg I feel a little insane right now. All these feelings are overwhelming me.

  223.  #223Vi on June 12, 2012 at 4:02 am


  224.  #224Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:03 am

    I need to focus on me… I need to feel loved, honoured and protected. I need to feel someone is doing something for me.. Why am I such a people pleaser…


  225.  #225Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 4:06 am

    “MarriedMan, I don’t think I can do this. It feels pretty intense already and I don’t think it’s good for me. I feel I am taking off the focus from what I really want in life. I want to have excitement, but I want to have it with someone who can give it all to me. I’m feeling sad that you are unavailable, if you weren’t, I’ll definitely go on a proper date with you and we could have all kind of crazy insane excitement. But since you are not, I think I need to back up already.”

    How does that sounds? Any tweaking, anyone?

  226.  #226Tam on June 12, 2012 at 4:06 am

    @ Rebecca…I know how it feels and I have been there. I decided this time, not to give in and sleep with him and that was VERY hard because, just like you, I wanted him to like me and also, I wanted to because I fancy him and find him very attractive. We did a lot of activities together and it was very hard not to….and I even first regretted not having s*x with him. Now I think it was the right thing to do, because my chemicals and homrones would have made it all so much worse.
    You are doing well because you can admit all these feelings to yourself….feel angry (I am angry all the time right now..lol), it’s ok. We have all been there and we all are there.
    You will be fine, eventually because you have the insight now.
    It will get easier. I promise

  227.  #227Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:12 am

    Ella ~ what you DID was right, because it was authentic and it was you – and whatever you say cannot be wrong.

    Also it is not your job to sort this mans life out. It is his job. So don’t beat yourself up about it. It is his job. He is an adult. If he wants to change he is the only person who can do that. You can help him. You can suppoet him. But you can’t do it for him.

    Let us know what you think?

  228.  #228Tam on June 12, 2012 at 4:32 am

    Lizka, why not just ‘it feels wrong to continue with this, let’s just concentrate on keeping it a professional (work) relationship please’.
    Something like that? I don’t know….

  229.  #229Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 4:36 am

    Hmmm i dont know Tam… It feels simple and cold to me…

  230.  #230Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 4:40 am

    So what do I do with BioFather, blocking me from his fb? I did share a feeling message the other day (via text) that I felt sad that I noticed I can’t see his fb and haven’t been able to see his photos for months. …

    not sure I handled this well or completely this way. the context was him texting me to see if I was awake as he wanted to see the baby.

    I filled him in on the baby. a little later I texted “I am feeling sad that I noticed I can’t see your fb profile , and haven’t been able to see your pics for months. I feel happy and very appreciative that you drive here to see us. Things have been emotionally overwhelming for me, but I have felt happy with you.

    I love the affection, quality time, closeness and companionship that I’ve been feeling with you before Christmas

    (*apparently I can’t do anything right since then, when I put everyone else first by including anyone else in my christmas plans. – so the last 6 months have been regular episodes of him ignoring me for things I don’t even understand).

    ,since you came back home. I felt scared but good about not worrying about things, having faith in us, moving together, and just doing this. Scared imagining you aren’t happy to hear about this but I want you to know these things…. (*after his “we don’t have a physical rlsp and any other rlsp is tenuous” email)…

    a few minutes later I texted him about the baby stirring.. so I guess I didn’t leave much room for response – I will keep in mind to assume he is going to answer me – but he has been ignoring EVERYthing I say for the most part anyway. .. and in his last email also said “I don’t really know how to respond to the rest of your email”. he seems to have serious trouble expressing himself, (hmm excuses), – being open honest and vulnerable had been his intention, maybe it’s not anymore.

    Lately he seems to constantly be aloof, will not reveal anything he is thinking and will not answer any questions, will not respond to anything, as though that will protect him from being judged.

    Anyway, after what I said, I texted next to say baby was ready, and he texted asking me if I would like to go to the park? if I wanted to meet there?

    I guessed this is because he assumed MILW was here..

    I said “I have to be back soon but I can come for a little bit”

    … I am not sure why he invited me.
    Was it to make me feel better because he feels bad and doesn’t want to be viewed badly?

    Is it because he wants to maintain somewhat of a connection with me? (despite that he doesn’t even talk to me these days and has me blocked on chat for weeks and fb now?)

    Was he testing the water even though he just last week sent me this rejection email?

    Did he want to talk about something?

    —- I spent about an hour or so at the park, he didn’t start any conversations. I didn’t bring anything up – about ANYthing. (even the baby’s birthday party which I asked if he wanted to contribute money to, and he hasn’t..nor has he said he would even be there). The entire time centered around the baby, however he connected with me often through eye contact or laughing or commenting on things baby did.

    I felt stupid for going – maybe I should’ve just asked if he wanted to talk about something?

    I felt good for going, too – because maybe this safe space where I didn’t bring anything up and just let him lead everything will bring us closer again?… I have been leaning fwd lately a little too much – asking questions instead of just sharing feeling messages.

    In the future, should I cut him off and say we can only spend time together if we are dating, and we can talk if he wants to talk about having a committed rlsp? – i worry that doing this will cut me out of his life. I think it would be good for us to be together and for baby to see us be an example of committed love, and his parents loving each other. I feel like just remaining open to spending time together with his family and with him, will keep the door open, where if I give the above cut off speech, i will be forcing myself OUT of his life which isn’t what I want.

    But I also don’t want to be strung along, and I don’t want to be the friend.

    And not sure how to handle all this ignoring-blocking on fb-aloofness.

    he hasn’t sent any money at all, either. stopped the money (which was only occasional diapers and gas for car, and a car inspection).. .. brought diapers though. (one pack.. does this mean he’ll be back next weekend for father’s day and baby’s birthday? he hasn’t mentioned it. and usually plans with me ahead of time…)

  231.  #231Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 4:44 am

    If anyone has advice on how to handle this aloof card, let me know.

    Do I mirror it?

    Do I stay open (continue to allow him access to my fb page for example) – and not fall into that downward spiral of tit for tat (which it is NOT, but could appear to be – esp since he has accused me of being passive aggressive before – which he is and I am not so much.)

    What do I do when I try to share fm, or share anything, and he ignores it?

    so weird for me, having to deal with a person who does this ignoring thing.

  232.  #232Smile on June 12, 2012 at 4:48 am

    Silver tongued siren, do you want a relationship with him or do you just want him to be in your life for the babies sake? I’m just trying to understand a little more.

  233.  #233Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 4:49 am

    Lizka, I like Tam’s suggestion in 228.

    I feel like more than that would just egg him on, possibly.

    I feel I can’t go on without putting in my feelings on this though, .. a man’s feelings may not be your responsibility, but we are all connected and everything you do has an effect. If I were his wife I would not feel good about it, and if he is doing this, he is definitely having issues at home. If he actually takes any of this flirting anywhere with any woman, he will most likely not leave his wife, as often outside relationships are subconsiously just to take the pressure off issues with his wife. He doesn’t WANT to leave his wife, or he wouldn’t be married to her.

    I think flirting with him is contributing to his issues with his wife and enabling him to continue to not deal with them. I feel like it is most loving to both of them to stop, and I think you’re doing the right thing.

  234.  #234Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:51 am

    Lizka ~ it sounds good. My only suggestion would be “I don’t think ” sounds a bit weak..

  235.  #235Tam on June 12, 2012 at 4:51 am

    Silver Tongued Siren,
    he doesn’t even pay for his own baby? He blocked you from facebook (cutting you out of his life, the part he has control over). He ignores you, doesn’t respond to you trying to converse with him?

    I am sorry but….why do you want to be with a man like this? I know you have to keep contact for the baby’s sake but else..I suggest circular dating? Blocking him also from fb. Ignoring anything other than things to do with baby? Telling him to pay for his child?

    Sorry, is this harsh?

  236.  #236smile on June 12, 2012 at 4:55 am

    My gut feeling is what Tam says. It seems like you are only trying to make this work because of the baby.

    Do not forget yourself in all of this! You have to be happy too not just bacause you think its how it should be for you to stay together.

    Listen to what his actions are showing you.

  237.  #237Silver Moonbeam on June 12, 2012 at 4:57 am

    #149 Esteemed

    Sounds like a scammer to me, tread very carefully my dear…………..and do not on any account send money or mobile phone’s etc.

  238.  #238Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 4:59 am

    Hmmm yes there is issues with his wife for sure. He said for many years. They are staying just for the kids…they pratically don’t live together. He is very unhappy an is afraid to miss his life that way.

    I know it does not excuse him (or me), but it makes him more human and it makes me feel for him…

  239.  #239Tam on June 12, 2012 at 5:01 am

    Lizka, they all say that. there is no married man who plays around who tells the object of his desires: oh, my marriage is great, I just feel like playing around with other women’. I have heard the ‘oh our marriage is terrible, my wife does this and that, I am not happy, we just ‘live’ together’ – soooooo many times, if I had a hundred dollars for every time I heard this, I would be rich now. Honestly. Don’t fall for it.

  240.  #240Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 5:04 am

    I’m feeling afraid that if I stop with MarriedMan, I’m going to feel the urge to call ATW…

  241.  #241Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 5:05 am


  242.  #242Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 5:17 am


    On the other hand, “pining” for MarriedMan might keep you from meeting someone who’s really meant for you.

  243.  #243Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 5:21 am

    Furthermore, I don’t feel that ATW is ready to be in a long-term relationship with you or with anyone right now.

    I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but I’m just getting this feeling from what you wrote here.

  244.  #244Starla on June 12, 2012 at 5:21 am

    Lizka, I feel pretty emphatic about this: You do NOT need to explain yourself to him, and you do not need to be sireny and soft about it. Exit gracefully and coolly the next time he texts you:

    “aw, i feel flattered by these texts you send… and it’s time we knock it off! Hope you understand:) See you around.”

    I dunno if you’re texting in french with him — but that’s how i would do it in English.

  245.  #245Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 5:31 am

    Lizka ~ wow this seems to have happened over night.

    Well, here are my thoughts…

    1) this man “could” be the love of your life, he just happens to be married to someone else
    If this is the case why don’t you test him. Say…

    “I like you. I think you are great. But as you are married I am not prepared to take it further. When we first met I did not realise you were married I realise that was niave of me. If you were not married things would be different, but they’re not so unfortunately I think we should just go back to being friends. Hope this is okay with you? Lizka

    2) he’s just having fun outside his marriage. In which case I would not even dignify his come ons with a response. He would just be a creep as far as I am concerned.

    3) he has married the “wrong” woman. Now he has fallen for you in the space of what seems like a few days. Hmmm maybe he should learn to slow down and take his time a bit. He may have fallen for his wife equally ad quickly, and lived to regret it possibly?

  246.  #246Heart on June 12, 2012 at 5:48 am

    I just shared some FM with this nice guy I met. Lets call him DJ. But – I feel icky.

    I feel bored of FM. I’m starting to feel like a Robot. I miss my personality. This guy was into me …without any FM formula. Do I really need to be using the word- Feel all the time? I think it’ great to learn how to sink into your feelings and communicate them…but all the time?

  247.  #247Heart on June 12, 2012 at 5:59 am

    I feel bad for writing that…I feel scared people will dislike me for posting that

  248.  #248Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 6:04 am


    I understand what you mean.

    I don’t always use the word “feel” because well, I find it very hard to keep up with them all the time, especially in French.

    I also don’t feel it’s natural to me to always use them, I only do when they *really* come in handy.

  249.  #249Starla on June 12, 2012 at 6:05 am

    oh my goodness i am slow moving this morning. It’s da depression i suppose. moving my ass now. getting in my gym clothes and getting to my daily workout.


  250.  #250Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 6:07 am

    Thank you Rebecca. I love your post to me. It males me feel like I’m not that insane after all.

    Maybe I should wait a bit, just a few days, befOre “exiting gracefully” ?

  251.  #251Tam on June 12, 2012 at 6:15 am

    @Heart…no no, I ‘feel’ the same. I am using feeling messages sometimes, but it feels new and inauthentic to me to use them all the time, like you say, we are not Robots and I think it’s nice to ‘sink’ into feelings but to be honest if I kept telling someone whom I have just met ‘I feel happy, I feel smiley, I feel sad’ bla bla – in Europe at least they’d think I was bonkers. Honestly. I had a beautiful 5 year relationship and never ‘artificially’ used a feeling message, perhaps it came naturally but I can’t remember, it is a while ago.
    I just take from this the advice that I think it appropriate to me. I am not a Robot only speaking in feeling speak to each and everyone I meet because that would be inauthentic, I feel (ha).
    So I identify with that and use the feeling message when I feel like using them….

  252.  #252Starla on June 12, 2012 at 6:16 am

    i hear things are different in other countries, but in the US, i would exit as quickly as possible, because it could make life really awful for you at work and come back to “bite you” if you know what i mean.

    see you ladies later on:)

  253.  #253Brandylion on June 12, 2012 at 6:42 am

    Oh, sirens, I feel so angry! Something PriestCD said at lunch Thursday has popped into my head.

    He’d said once when we were talking about past relationships that he’d had “strong feelings” for his ex-girlfriend and saw them getting married. I asked him on Thursday if he loved her. He answered, “I never told her.” He then said that, when they talked after their break-up, she’d said that, even though he sent her flowers signed, “Love, “, since he never said it she never really believed he felt it.

    I blurted before I could stop myself, “You never fu(king sent me flowers,” to which he replied, “I never really knew your address somehow.”

    Bullsh!t!!! When he didn’t send me flowers on Valentine’s Day, he said that he’d just never gotten his sh!t together to figure out where to send them, but he was going with Plan B, which was to have something the next time he saw me. (He didn’t. He told me on that next visit, the weekend following Valentine’s Day, that he wanted to get me a particular port and chocolate, but just hadn’t made it to the winery that week. Compound that with the fact that he hadn’t planned to see me for that long weekend until he found out on Friday that his car, which was in a body shop near me after his minor accident driving to my place over Christmas break, was ready, and that’s why he hadn’t made it to the winery!) It was two weeks later that he finally delivered on his promised gift.

    So, this man had spent 3 days at my apartment in September, 2 days in October, 5 days in December, and 2 days in January, and HE DIDN’T KNOW MY ADDRESS?!? HE DIDN’T KNOW MY ADDRESS!!!?!

    G0d, what a worthless piece of sh!t of a boyfriend. He may have taken good care of me in small ways, but they don’t make up for *at all* the big ways in which he let me down.

  254.  #254Brandylion on June 12, 2012 at 6:49 am

    I feel angry with him for being a lousy boyfriend in the ways that actually matter, and I feel angry with myself for having put up with it. I feel uncertain right now that what I learned from this relationship outweighs the regret I feel for having wasted nine months of my life on him.

  255.  #255Tam on June 12, 2012 at 6:51 am

    ((((Brandylion))))) Jeepers.
    Does it make you feel better that my man who is not my man, got my birthday wrong by 7 days and then made a big spectacle out of being so proud that he remembered it (the wrong day). I let him go on and on and then just said ‘my birthday was 7 days ago, but thanks for remembering – the wrong date’.
    I was furious too, now I just think: should’ve known he was not 100% into me. I would still not forget his birthday even now….anyhow. It is infuriating…

  256.  #256Heart on June 12, 2012 at 6:56 am

    Francesca and Tam – thank you. I feel relieved, happy and smiley to hear that…lol. 🙂

  257.  #257Ella on June 12, 2012 at 7:46 am


    I am still feeling disgruntled from the posts that you left for me…

    Its been playing on my mind all day.

    I don’t know… I feel bad having my interaction picked to bits like that… especially by someone who doesn’t actually know me or my situation.

    And I feel weird being asked to say if it felt harsh and then receiving an angry response when I said that it did.

    It is not the content of the original post I object to… I am sure there is some valid stuff in there, its the way it was put across to me.

    And especially when I have been working on this stuff for a long time, and this situation is tricky and painful to me, and suddenly there is this new Siren, who I don’t even know going ‘oh yeah, you did that all wrong!!!’. Err, excuse me??

    Actually as far as I know that isn’t how we are encouraged to interact with each other on here… it doesn’t feel constructive or supportive.

    I feel bristly.

    And I just felt like ‘hey, who is this person, coming along and picking apart what I have said in this situation that has felt so hard for me to negotiate, and has been on-going, and judging it as ‘gone wrong’

    To be honest it felt awful.

    I suppose maybe what I could have said from the beginning is er yeah, it felt a bit harsh and thanks for your input and actually that doesn’t apply here.

    Instead of allowing myself to get all bothered.

    And it just felt like being picked on out of nowhere, after having already been struggling with this whole situation, and feeling like yeah I did alright, and then being told ‘your efforts are all wrong and you have messed up again’ which to me just feels like a huge trigger on something which feels important right now.

    I never said it was perfect… I said it was my best and I don’t want to be criticised.

    I feel angry.


  258.  #258Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Lizka I never suggested you call him a pig. I feel that your script sounds uncertain and that you are not sure of what you want exactly… Kind of like you want him to talk you into it maybe? I could be wrong. It sounds like he already has you hooked and actually I do think he is a pig.

  259.  #259Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Lizka I never suggested you call him a pig. I feel that your script sounds uncertain and that you are not sure of what you want exactly… Kind of like you want him to talk you into it maybe? I could be wrong. It sounds like he already has you hooked…

  260.  #260Pamelala on June 12, 2012 at 7:56 am


    I agree with Emerson. As I read your script, I felt you were offering an easily thwarted boundary…with a simple, “but I can’t stay away from you, baby…just a glimpse of you and I’m intoxicated..” could get you to give up the boundary and you’re back in the palm of his hand.

    “I feel excited by all the attention you’ve given me, but it isn’t good for my heart – which longs for a relationship with someone who can be mine. I am going to stop engaging in these texts with you…Please respect my wishes and do the same.”

  261.  #261LoveAlways on June 12, 2012 at 7:57 am

    The unknown for me is how to be with a man now. I mean, like, forever. How to live with someone married when I’m so used to being on my own. Sharing to the extent, and then, facing the unknown together. I feel scared about this, but I feel the right approach is to indeed love the unknown.


  262.  #262Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 8:04 am

    Heart ~ I really agree with you about the feeling messages, but, for me, they are about being in touch with my own feelings. I now tend to notice more, if that makes sense. I don’t always know what to do if I feel unhappy or sad but I guess that’s why I’m here practicing the tools. I’m not sure if that makes sense…?!

  263.  #263Tam on June 12, 2012 at 8:08 am

    Emerson…agree with you… Oink, oink!!!

  264.  #264Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Regarding feeling messages

    Rori has written a post on it…

    It is very useful.

    And I find that yes, it always gets the best response if I can manage to use them. And yes, it can feel weird at first but now it feels pretty natural, unless I start thinking about it.

  265.  #265Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 8:11 am

    Brandylion ~ I agree with you about struggling to see it as a “learning experience”. All I see is fog and red mist… I can’t get my head around this supposed to be a learning experience. I feel all the anger about ALL the men whoever hurt me. What lesson was I supposed to learn? That I’m not good enough for them? Not pretty enough? Not slim enough? Not intellectual enough… Hmmm…. What do I need to change about myself to move past this…. Ooooohhhh ….. So difficult…. I can’t see the wood for the trees. Is it about me or about them??

  266.  #266Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:16 am

    There is one thing I feel confused about Siren.

    I have read in a few of Rori’s posts about never having to watch what we say around a man anymore, and in the book and other posts I have read about stopping ourselves from speaking when we are going to criticise, give advice, make an innocent suggestion etc… and to actually put our hands over our mouths.

    I get why, and isn’t this watching what we say?

    Sometimes I can get myself all tied up second guessing what I am saying.

    I know its all for the greater good in the long run, and it has TRANSFORMED my love life, however now I really want to develop being Rockstar, and having confidence in what I say.


    I feel good that I can now feel confident and it doesn’t even matter if I say something ‘wrong’ cus overall I am lovely and most of what I do and say is good for the relationship.

    Do Sirens have any thoughts on this?

  267.  #267LoveAlways on June 12, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Hi Sirens:

    I need to focus on my work, but I keep reading the blog!!! LOL, I’m going to go focus now.

    Blessings to all.


  268.  #268Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Rebecca re 265

    What springs to mind if riffing and sinking in to your emotions and feeling them without needing to blame anyone for them.

    What do you think?

  269.  #269Brandylion on June 12, 2012 at 8:24 am

    A friend told me this morning that the plus side is that I have seen that men *are* actually interested in me and that I’m now free of this relationship.

    I agree with the second part, but I am really struggling to believe that one guy after 11 years of no interest on the part of men is actually evidence that *men* (plural) are interested. *A man* was interested, but not enough to treat me like much more than a friend. C.f. my experiences with online dating; men are not interested in dating me. Period.

    Fu(k ’em. I’m better off on my own. If I’m alone, I’m the only person who can disappoint me, and I go to great lengths to prevent that from happening, which is more than I can say for any man I’ve ever been interested in.

  270.  #270Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Ella ~ the problem then is that it feels like anger and that anger is being directed somewhere ie the man that’s hurt me. So, yes, I guess I am playing a “blaming game”…

    Riffing….?? I’m not sure what riffing is… I always feel like I need to resolve my feelings into acceptance… And with these feelings of anger I cannot get to acceptance…

  271.  #271Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 8:29 am

    (((brandy lion)))

  272.  #272Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 8:32 am

    Lizka I don’t want to sound harsh or insensitive about the married guy ,,,i just feel mad becuz married men have done this to me when I’m feeling emotionally vulnerable and I fell for it and it did NOT end well…I think these guys are very good at sniffing out women who are hurting or vulnerable (I.e. you are sad about atw) and they take advantage of it.

  273.  #273Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Lizka I don’t want to sound harsh or insensitive about the married guy ,,,i just feel mad becuz married men have done this to me when I’m feeling emotionally vulnerable and I fell for it and it did NOT end well…I think these guys are very good at sniffing out women who are hurting or vulnerable (I.e. you are sad about atw) and they take advantage of it.

  274.  #274Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Sorry for the double post I’m using my phone

  275.  #275Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Ella does Rori mean don’t worry about what you say when talking about our feelings?

  276.  #276Dominique on June 12, 2012 at 8:44 am

    About feeling messages. On thing to be aware of is the difference between a thought and a feeling.

    eg. “I feel your message was convoluted” – this is a thought, not a feeling.

    eg. “I feel really good when I hear your voice.” – this is a feeling.

    eg. “I feel that your script sounds uncertain…” – a thought

    eg. “I feel uncertain reading your script.” – a feeling

    This may help. You don’t HAVE to use feeling messages for each and every feeling you have, BUT it is a great way to get in touch with what it is you really are feeling. It’s a good exercise for YOU.


  277.  #277Heart on June 12, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Ella – I’m going to respond to you tomorrow. I am not angry with you. I just need a little time to process your reply. I am sorry you’re angry. I hope you can sink into your feelings and find the other emotions that is under the anger.
    When it comes to my own experience…I am learning and practicing too.

  278.  #278Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:48 am


    Owww, can you accept and love the anger??


  279.  #279Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Ok, after all the stuff that has happened lately I just have bad feelings.. So I’ve come home.. We share a car but I actually just got my stuff together and got the train home..
    Don’t think he actually expected it to happen as I never usually go..

    Received a text message from his mother to say he had come in and shot back out asking where I was and if I had left and she thinks he got in his car and went to the station to try and find me..
    Now I have received two text messages from him..
    1. “What time did you get the train?”
    2. “????”

    I havnt responded yet as I want to handle this in the right way as right now I feel stronger and energised but a wrong message or two and I know I will feel so down..

    I dont want to split with him, but things HAVE TO change.. I want things to go back to how they were..

    Any advice on how to handle this now?
    Ie. Leaning back of course.. setting boundaries, feeling messages?

    Anything will be appreciated.. Its a big step for me even leaving, I’m suprised at how relaxed I feel

  280.  #280Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:54 am



    And thank you for responding with calmness.

    I really appreciate that.

  281.  #281Radiant Rising on June 12, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Good morning, sirens!

    Hi Lizka, hope you’re doing well and are not too confused. It is scary how much I am identifying with your situation right now from back then. It was so difficult to get advice from others! Kept hearing the same status quo speeches. At the time it was like, I KNOW all of this, but I don’t know how to break away! I did not ever want to be harsh with him, because I felt so tender towards him. Before he came on to me, I looked up to him very highly. He was one of the more aware and nicer guys there, helping customers and employees who were in need. He seemed sensitive, he would be on a call with a customer who was suicidal, ALL these things just served me to view him in such a positive light that it was so hard for me to be cold or abrupt with him. The more I didn’t, the more and more and more I kept falling!

    I don’t know what advice to give…I think the best thing to do is first go inward. There is something there which is making you not want to break away so abruptly just yet. Get contemplative, and figure out what that is for yourself, and then figure out if that is worth it. We are not in your situation. We don’t know him,we don’t know the whole story, and we certainly cannot know what you are fully going through even if we have had a similar experience. We can only give advice based on our colors, but that may or may not be right for you. At the very least I can tell you is to take it slow right now, no rash decisions. Get in touch with YOUR inner voice. Only she can guide you. Keep us posted. 🙂

  282.  #282Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 8:57 am


    Have you read my post @144?

    I’m not looking for attention, I’m just thinking that maybe after you read it, you won’t feel as disgruntled?


  283.  #283Ella on June 12, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Wow Slipping Goddess

    Good for you hon!

    Well Done for standing up for yourself and taking some space.

    You have so got this.

    Well firstly you can just answer his question by telling him what time you got the train.

    And then let him lead, and repsond to him

    Bravo to you for taking some time out for you.

    If he asks you can just say you feel bad, and confused about the situation, and you need some time.

    What do you think?

  284.  #284Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 8:58 am


    Have you read my post @144?

    I’m not looking for attention, I’m just thinking that maybe after you read it, you won’t feel as disgruntled?


  285.  #285Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 9:03 am

    He used to make me laugh so much
    He used to be relaxed and care free
    I used to turn up and he’d have romantic music playing, candles and he’d be cooking a meal for us in the kitchen..
    Even up until recently he would text me nice little messages through the day..
    He’d get blankets and music and light a fire outside for me and him to talk with a glass of wine..
    He even took me stargazing and we lay on his bonnet looking at the stars..
    He bought an expensive car and practically gave it me to use..
    He’s a fantastic dad and I watch him with his kid and hope for a family with him one day..

    Yes, this is my now grumpy, overworked, tired, stressed, arrogant guy, ignorant, careless, drug taking, money spending guy.. 🙁

    You must read what I write and wonder why I’m putitng up with it but hes a good person at heart and things were so so good.. The ‘having no boundaries’ is really ringing true..

    I want him to get back to being him.. and I want me to get back to being me..

    ..with all your help I’m hoping it can happen.

  286.  #286Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Just thinking..

    He used to make me laugh so much
    He used to be relaxed and care free
    I used to turn up and he’d have romantic music playing, candles and he’d be cooking a meal for us in the kitchen..
    Even up until recently he would text me nice little messages through the day..
    He’d get blankets and music and light a fire outside for me and him to talk with a glass of wine..
    He even took me stargazing and we lay on his bonnet looking at the stars..
    He bought an expensive car and practically gave it me to use..
    He’s a fantastic dad and I watch him with his kid and hope for a family with him one day..

    Yes, this is my now grumpy, overworked, tired, stressed, arrogant, ignorant, careless, drug taking, money spending guy.. 🙁

    You must read what I write and wonder why I’m puttng up with it but he’s a good person at heart and things were so so good.. The ‘having no boundaries’ thing is really ringing true..

    I want him to get back to being him.. and I want me to get back to being me.. and I know that’s by focusing on me as as much as I love him its clear I am putting way too much emphasis on him right now.. Love eh..

    ..with all your help I’m hoping positive things can happen.

  287.  #287Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 9:12 am

    #283 @Ella

    Thank you.. 🙂
    I really can’t go on with the way things have and I guess everyone has got a limit.. With me staying there nothing is changing.. Time out will be good.. I just want to do things the right way.
    I got the train home, I stopped off in town, bought myself a book..
    I’m going to run a hot bubbly bath and read my new book.. and I’m out with the girls weekend..
    In school for my new teaching job one day this week and I might even fit in getting my hair done..

    I’m hopeful things will work out.. 🙂

  288.  #288Ella on June 12, 2012 at 9:16 am


    Ah yes I did.

    Thank You.

    It made me feel smily!

  289.  #289Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Sooo, I am doing pretty good… I do feel a discomfort about CF still, but it’s different than it was before.

    I am noticing my desire to ‘replace’ him… but I am going to take another month or two to be on my own. The fact that I am itching so badly for some male attention and validation shows how much I need to learn to be alone. I read on Baggage Reclaim something that really resonated with me. She said that you’ve spent months and even years in bad relationships; you can spend 3-6 months alone.

  290.  #290Radiant Rising on June 12, 2012 at 9:22 am

    *Sigh* sometimes life just feels like it’s a loooooong and confusing journey! Very overwhelmed by it right now. I hope talking to loverboy will be calming. We’ve been playing phone tag for days now. 🙁

  291.  #291Ella on June 12, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Ok Sirens,

    I am doing something which feels super, super scary to me.

    I am beginning to have stronger boundaries in my business too.

    Small things like I am insisting on advance payments for my Pole sessions, which is our policy, AND I am keeping the money now when people cancel last minute.

    I struggled with this before.

    One client would never abide by this rule of paying in advance, there would always be some excuse why she didn’t have the money. So this time I said I will wait until she has the money before I book her in again.

    This is scary for me as I am still building the business, and I would like more clients, however I am tired of running myself ragged chasing after people that are at best a bit ropey.

    With my Zumba I put a boundary in place for my clients who pay month by month too…

    And I am not worrying as much about bending my schedule and moving heaven and earth to try and accomodate people who are not committed.

    I don’t know for sure if this is the right approach, however I have seen these principles work in my love life, and I have a feeling this is also a good way forward for my business too.

    But it feels scary.

    Not chasing people and going after every piece of money that I could get if I did chase.

    That is not to say I will not be proactive, its just to say I don’t want to feel like a beggar anymore.

    I am tired of taking scraps.

    I am also meeting my friend on Sat and will talk to her about the deal we have for profits from my company… as the way it is set up is not fair on me, nor is it working for me.

    I feel super afraid of this and I am going to do it anyway.

    I hope I am along the right lines here for raising my game and becoming a high value business, like I am a high value woman.

  292.  #292Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 9:30 am

    #129 @Ella

    I’m so sorry, I have only just now read your post and want to thank you for it.
    I agree with what you say. He’s a good man with good intentions but unfortunately he succombs to the drug use usually at periods of stress (Albeit admittedly stress which he brings on himself through trying to please everyone).

    If I didn’t know he was a warm, loving, caring guy I really wouldn’t stand for this.
    I must take a bit of responsibility in the fact that things don’t feel good and yes it is wrong what he does but I never leave or set real boundaries. I need to be stronger in myself. I can’t lay all the blame on him when I’m the one leaving myself in the situation.

    Yes, this is the same guy.
    I don’t know how you search old posts but it would be interesting to read.
    I only come on here in the bad points of the relationship to be fair. The good parts I never share.

    This is why I have learned to come on here rather than speak with friends and get their opinion, as I know I only tell them when things are bad and this doesn’t show the whole picture.

    Thank you for your comments.. It all helps.

  293.  #293Ella on June 12, 2012 at 9:42 am

    MWC just phoned up and he is planning dinner for tonight and it is a big challenge because we have been aiming to remove carbs and gluten from our meals because of his condition, and I have been leading on this because of my background in nutrition.

    And I’ve cooked a couple of meals and now its him doing it…

    and he is struggling. And he asked for my input and I gave it and then he started grumbling and saying he felt grumpy and ‘this is all the food I don’t like!’

    Oh and also he said he went to his appointment with his therapist this afternoon but there was a mix up with the times so he didn’t actually see her.

    So that means he has only actually seen her once. As there was a problem on the 1st session he had booked too.


    I noticed slight discomfort and anxiety feelings triggering in me with the phone conversation we had… and an urge to fix it, and make suggestions and try and smooth over the issues with the food.

    And you know what I am going to lean back and do nothing.

    This is not for me to sort out.

    If I am capable of sorting out my diet and healthy meals for us that take into account eating for his illness he d8mn well is capable.

    So I am just going to lean back, focus on my Zumba class which I have in a minute, and other stuff I have to do.

    And I am not going to fix this or try to sort it out.

  294.  #294Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:51 am


  295.  #295Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 10:03 am


    I support you in your choices re. your business @291.

    As far as I know, here in Canada, if you have signed up for a class and you don’t show up or cancel at the last minute, you still pay the fee.

  296.  #296Dominique on June 12, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Ella – Yay you on your business boundaries!!! This can be a tough one, I know. I too struggled with this, and it’s still not flowy and natural feeling.


  297.  #297Francesca on June 12, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Ella and Dominique,

    Do you know the Brave Heart Women website?

    I used to watch their videos (awesome tools to use) but they’ve been awfully quiet lately.

    I just received an email from them yesterday and they have made some changes to their website but their purpose is still the same (social networking).

    I remember watching a video about a woman who was struggling with business boundaries, like you ladies are. There was an expert on board too and he explained why some women sometimes felt uncomfortable with being fairly renumerated for their work.

    The thing is, I don’t know where the video is now, since the website changed so much…:(

    Anyway, you might want to take a look if you’re interested.

  298.  #298Tam on June 12, 2012 at 10:30 am

    I believe it’s all tied up. Boundaries with men, family and in business life. I would love to be more assertive in all those categories and have a habit to put up with a lot, for a long time – until it bursts out of me and I burn bridges, change jobs, change men. I think it’s great that Ella is doing this with her business, and it’s the way to go. Being firm but fair, truthful and authentic without letting people (men also) walk over you.
    For me a massive work in progress as I always had to fit in and shut up as a kid, feeling more of an inconvenience than anything else – and it’s time to grow out of it….high time.

  299.  #299Starla on June 12, 2012 at 10:30 am

    there is a wildfire going nuts out of control in CF’s new neighborhood, so the news and the constant smell of the fire outside are really triggering me!!

    love to me:)
    forgiveness to me:)

  300.  #300ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 10:32 am

    @176 Starla

    Thank you for the thought 🙂

  301.  #301Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Ok, so I came home.
    I responded to his text asking what time I got the train with ‘I left at about half 2″

    Now he has text saying
    “What time did you get in for? I’ve just sorted all the car out, just got to sort the other stuff out now.”

    Now I can respond by telling him what time I got in etc but this is like we’re having a normal conversation and nothing is wrong.
    Am I supposed to now say.. Things have to change, I want to get back to how we were.. I cant carry on the way things are so Im taking time out blah blah.. or do I just say nothing and assume he knows already and carry on just responding to him. But will things actually change then?

    A little confused.. Sorry to be a pain.

  302.  #302Starla on June 12, 2012 at 10:43 am

    I am really feeling my desperation today
    ((((((((my desperation))))))))))
    i love my desperation!

  303.  #303Sassy on June 12, 2012 at 11:03 am

    After much thought and consideration and really reading a lot on the baggage reclaim site about boundaries (of which I have very few) and rejection, I have decided that I will never have contact with JT again.
    I am tired of allowing myself to be used and abused. I feel hurt and sad, but most of all, empty.
    No more.
    I choose me

  304.  #304Tam on June 12, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Wow, Sassy. A powerful statement, that is quite an inspiration!

  305.  #305ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 11:10 am

    I’ve been so hungry the past couple of days. I brought enough lunch to work for 2 days and I just ate all of it and I’m not even full. My appetite grows when I’m worried, but shrinks when I’m nervous. Silly stomach!

    My grandma is hallucinating, thinks everyone is out to get her, is very negative and being a very difficult patient. She wants more pain meds after 1.5 hours and she can’t have them until 4 hours. I think it’s all in her head that she needs more. I think this surgery mentally screwed her up. She was so afraid of it to begin with. Could her fear have caused her to go mad? Can you get hooked on pain meds in less than a week?

  306.  #306Daria on June 12, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Slippin Goddess – you must learn to use feeling messages to communicate, not just ‘to sort relationship issues’

    take advantage of him asking you questions to respond with feeling messages related to the present moment

  307.  #307Starla on June 12, 2012 at 11:20 am


    yessssss, awesome article, thank you dominique.

    everyone enjoy:) will help you feel stronger in NC

  308.  #308Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Sllippin Goddess I would tell him that I am feeling a bit bummed out by the recent events and need some space to sort things out in your heart so you can feel all relaxed and calm again. Tell him, if you were, that you have been feeling a little stressed and tightened up a bit recently and don’t want to feel that way with him.

    I would answer his questions but make sure there are other things happening in my life. If you want things to change act on it. Talking about it might just make it sound like demands. Change what you can on your end.

  309.  #309Tam on June 12, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Thanks Starla…great article. Just that it can happen that he does come back all of his own accord and still isn’t sure he wants you, and is still ambivalent… that’s what happened to me so them coming back is not necessarily a positive – life and love is not always straightforward.

  310.  #310Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I just wrote down the things I think are causing issues in our relationship.
    Now it’s pretty long and not as structured and clean as I’d like – more or less rambling, but it’s what I feel needs to be said as I think me and him are getting confused as to what the problems are.

    If I post them here. I hope someone can clean it up for me and help me correct it and write it the right way with more feeling messages etc.

    I feel like I need to list the problems for them to be resolved. I may be wrong and correct me if I am.

    But here goes, tell me what you think…

  311.  #311Daria on June 12, 2012 at 11:39 am

    sorry for the ‘you must’ language

    i guess it feels scary to think that someone isn’t using them and how much of a difference that makes in communication

  312.  #312lilybelly on June 12, 2012 at 11:40 am


    RG, when my Mom whent through her heart attack, quad bypass, dying after the surgery and having to be brought back after 45 minutes of being gone, she was on a LOT of drugs and I mean A LOT! She’s finally being released from rehab today.


    But she hallucinated steady when she finally came to. She saw flowers on the walls, fists in her face and all kinds of other things.

    Grandma isn’t losing her marbles. Although, I thought that maybe there was something wrong with my Mom’s melon from being without oxygen for so long, but nope…it was just the drugs and pain and irritation from being vented and, well, I feel you. And, the hallucinating went on for quite some time..several weeks, really. She needed the medication. Poor Mom…

    Please don’t worry…it’s counter-productive to healing. Send lots of healing thoughts to her.

  313.  #313Daria on June 12, 2012 at 11:48 am

    First hs boyfriend who went down on me and we never had sex… is back on facebook tellin me he thinks about my ‘cookie’ Everyday! this is not the first time he brought this up

    he says he doesnt remember dumping me for the big boobie twin

    “we can meet in the middle… lol whats new daria… we have unfinished business lol just kidding

    Me: lol i felt bad gettin dumped for a big boobie twin …

    what, i dont recall it going like that
    i remember you turning me out with that sweet cookie… i think about that like almost every day lol but im serious”

    yay! im feelin flattered mucho! 🙂


    this man has 3 kids w 2 diff women, has a newborn with the new one now lol guss its not workin out for him wout my sweet cookie

  314.  #314ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 11:49 am

    @312 lilybelly

    Thank you. I feel happy to hear your Mom made it through so much. She is a very strong lady!! 🙂 It must have been a really awful experience.

    Update: I guess Grandma refused medication today and went to therapy. We are waiting for Grandpa to call to tell us the whole story.

  315.  #315Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 11:51 am

    I don’t mind it being recreational – the odd time, but I feel lonely and upset when I’m lay there in silence on nights I have looked forward to spending with you and you are in the bathroom having coke. It also worsens money problems and it hurt to find money gone from my account. With the drugs I can often see a change in attitude the next day, I feel snapped at. It’s a bad cycle. Drugs mean we don’t spend quality time together, plus you spend more money, meaning you have to work more which also means we don’t spend as much time together and adding to all that – you’re stressed.

  316.  #316Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Quality Time
    You work a lot but there needs to be time for us to spend together as a couple. Quality time. I understand you have a child and you need time to see her as well. I would love for there to be time for us as a couple and time for us as a family as there used to be. I don’t think that’s unacceptable. It only changed recently and that’s when some problems started. I can deal with coming second after your child. But since drugs take up another slot and work another then I feel quite far down the pecking order.
    There needs to be boundaries. I can handle changes in plans every now and then but lately it’s every time we plan on having a day off together I get left and end up feeling lonely and rejected.

    Also, there needs to be boundaries with ***. I’ve noticed a change in her attitude. We used to get on so well and yet recently I’ve noticed attitude towards me and I know she’s young but it still hurts because I’m so good with her. Not all the time but odd times and I can see it worsening. You need to command respect for me as your girlfriend just by reminding her I’m an adult if she hits out/makes comments/speaks down to me. Also little things that you may never realise can cause problems E.g. If I am not there, dont let her stay in bed with you, as she’s started realising when I’m not there she gets to sleep with you etc. and it causes resentment and jealousy.

  317.  #317Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 11:53 am

    We need to talk. I love you, there’s nothing you could say I would think bad of. I’d love for us to be able to talk freely and openly about things. If we move in together, we’re going to have to talk more. I need to know about things that are going on with you, with money etc. You take on a lot of problems yourself but I wish you’d talk and share them with me. Often maybe this is why we don’t get each other. Even about the holiday, I have no idea how much you have saved etc. If I did we could work together. You wouldn’t need to use my card and not tell me. But I don’t have a clue what’s going on most the time. I need openness.

    I worry about trust issues still. Not that I don’t trust you. I do, but there are things that happened in the past that are obviously going to still be there in the back of my head. Also linking to communication, maybe I feel untrusting and insecure as you aren’t very open about things. Things I found on your phone are a big part of it and yet I worry about how you are now with your phone. This may be to do with the drugs but your phone is always turned off now or on silent and has a pass code whilst mine is always on and freely available for you to use. It’s an unnecessary worry. I don’t like it. It makes me feel uneasy and I don’t want to feel that way.

  318.  #318Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I want a good future and I do want you to be a part of it. I’ve got a good job and a good start to my career. I’m going to be earning money and I really see us building a life together. I want to build a career, have money and savings, good things, a nice house, even get married one day, start a family and be happy.
    But all these problems need to be addressed first for both of our benefit. Else these bad feelings will carry on and build and ruin the love we have.

  319.  #319Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 11:59 am

    “Its simple for me, I want to feel like no 1 in my relationship.”

    So true Ella. Get involved with a married man and you get to know what it feels like to be the dog’s leftover

  320.  #320Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Slippin Goddess have you tried to check his phone?

    It is great you are journaling your areas of concern that you can become clear for yourself.

  321.  #321Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Slippin Goddess I am wondering if “feeling overwhelmed” is a good assessment of where you are at with everything.

  322.  #322Sassy on June 12, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Thank you, Tam

  323.  #323Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    I did in the past. I found photos of girls and dirty photos with a recent date to when I was checking. It hurt. Now he’s really cautious with his phone. I dont understand why its always off and has a pass code.

    He doesnt have the time to cheat. He isnt taking pride in himself and he has a low sex drive. So I dont believe he is.

    and yes.. I’m feeling very overwhelmed. He has a lot of baggage. Two children with two women already, a drug problem, money problems etc. It’s alot to take on and I often think I’m far too young and cute to be dealing with all this. But I love him and at times he makes me feel like we’re the only two people in the world. I couldnt imagine being with anyone else. Maybe that’s my problem.

  324.  #324Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    ..and with the phone thing.
    I actually was that hurt from finding things when I would check that I just stopped checking.
    I would look at the phone there while he was asleep and the remembering the hurt feeling would cause me to not even bother looking.

    I guess if you dig deep enough with anything you might find some dirt.

    But I trust him now.. If he isnt working or with his kid hes with me. Although often taking drugs or sleeping etc so it isnt really quality time.

    Still curious as to why his phone is so unaccesible now. Even if I did want to look.

  325.  #325Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    How can I tell him the problems so clearly.. without it looking like a big essay..

    Write him a letter?

    or do I not tell him..

  326.  #326ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Slippin’ Goddess

    You’ve listed quite a few problems. I feel it may be overwhelming (especially to a stressed man) to dump it all on him at once. How do you feel about picking the most important one and starting from there?

  327.  #327Daria on June 12, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    aww the guy last nite did text me he didnt think i liked him, i thought he was mad cuz i didnt give him sex!

    wow i dont have to shut down about this

    i feel excited this day is starting out lovely 🙂

  328.  #328Slippin' Goddess on June 12, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    I guess so..

    The main thing is the quality time I guess.

    This being affected by the drugs and him jumping through hoops for his ex is straining our relationship.
    I feel lonely and rejected I guess when it comes down to it.

    Its getting clearer..

  329.  #329okay go on June 12, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I need help!

  330.  #330Daria on June 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    go Daria, its still your birthday

    yay Daria! woo hoo!

  331.  #331Tereana on June 12, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Huh. wow, I want to go back and read all of Rori’s article…for now….


    I’m freaking out on the blog, so that I don’t do it in person. Actually, I am afraid that I’ve already “freaked out.” Uuuurrghhhhh.

    I got a call yesterday from MM. He needed to cancel our Thursday date. I said fine, no problem, because I had to work, and it was kind of late anyway. I asked if we could do it on the weekend. He paused, I swear, microscopically, before he said he had to work. I swear, I heard that, and I heard something that he didn’t say. Because even if he did have to work, why not be able to hang out? I swear I thought, oh, no, he’s hanging out with someone else. He has to “work.” He only wants to see me on the weekdays. I don’t feel important. I want to feel important. I don’t want to give up my weekdays.

    But he’s driving the ship, flying the boat, whatever. He asked if I could do Wednesday. I told him that I’d have to check. I was about to tell him that my schedule is busier now, and I feel tired in the middle of the week, and it’s harder for me to go out. But then my client came out, and I had to jump off the phone, really abruptly.

    I texted him to say I’d call later. No response.

    I called later. No response. I left a message. No response.

    I checked my calendar, and Wednesday does work. I’m not sure how I want it to go. I don’t know if I want to see him much more if all he wants is casual sex. I’m feeling nervous about having “the talk.” But I’ll take a date with him mid-week, if it means I’ll have a chance to at least try and express myself authentically and my needs/wants/desires for relationship beyond just casual sex. Even good casual sex.

    So now I’m “freaking out” because I texted him that wednesday will work, and I haven’t heard back yet. Yarghhhh. Grah.

    I feel a hot tightness is my head, like a metal band around my skull. I feel constriction in my chest. I’m taking a breath. I just sat up straighter, let my shoulders go back….

    I tilt my head back and breathe up into the air. Close my eyes. I don’t know I don’t know I don’t know…

    I’m afraid I’ve been too “on top” of him. I’ve communicated too much. I didn’t have to tell him anything last night. I could have just called him today. ARghhhhh. But I have to go to work. Now! I’m going to be late! sheesh. This is ridiculous. I don’t have time to worry!

    If he wants to do it, he can get back to me. He’ll let me know. Meanwhile, I am concentrating on myself, on how I feel, on what I need to do. Okay, thank you. Gotta go!


  332.  #332LoveAlways on June 12, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Good evening my sirens.
    My appetite for love has changed.
    I don’t want to hear or feel my giving to a man any more. The songs about “how much love I have you” don’t make the cut. All those songs don’t fit me now. I don’t feel that in my heart anymore {change the radio station}

    I feel that I need to be adored, and wanted and craved in love.

    That there is no fight and no chase and no games, just love flowing from him and my response of love to him.

    Dear love
    I am open for what you have for me – and I know you will reach out to me with your love .

    And in the natural flow of love you feel my love constantly open and flowing to you.

    I’m open for where are you leading our love to go – I’ll set the pace and you will crave it.

    My responses of love are from pure feeling – no thoughts involved.

    I’m just saying . . .

  333.  #333LoveAlways on June 12, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Go Daria, it’s yo birtday, go Daria, it’s yo birtday

  334.  #334LoveAlways on June 12, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Are you CDing with any other guys at this point?

  335.  #335Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Sitting on my hands again…

    I am not ready to get in contact with him yet. I am afraid, so afraid of the rejection. I know I am over sensitive, but I can’t help the way I am.

    I was with a friend tonight and she is the total opppsite of me. She is really quite hard. I wish I was like her. She really doesn’t care about “weak” men at all. I feel far too much sympathy for them. I always make excuses for everybody. I am a doormat. I am a joke. Well that is howI feel. Why can’t I be hard faced and just not care at all. I always see everyones point if view.

    Sorry for the venting.. I need to release. I feel sad… I want to text him and I can’t…

  336.  #336Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Slippin Goddess I would ask myself how can I love someone who treats me this way? It doesn’t sound like you feel adored and cherished. What is it in this relationship that you want to keep it alive? What are you getting out of it?

  337.  #337Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Rebecca simply because you are not. Please stop beating yourself up. Stand in front of the mirror and start talking to yourself. Even if you initially flinch/cringe with hatred. Just do it. Also find a strategy to stop. Just stop. It is easier said than done but you have to start somewhere rewiring your brain. This pining is not what will inspire this man, any man, to want you. There are men out there who love highly sensitive women.

  338.  #338Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Rebecca this is Rori advice to someone else.

    Kathleen – I’m not interested in him – I’m interested in YOU – so what are YOU doing while this man is bouncing around? Are you Circular Dating? Are you taking him and everything he says with a “grain of salt”? He was absolutely clear with you – no relationship. The only way that’s going to change is over time, of his own feelings – and the best you can do to inspire that in him is to not care ONE WHIT how this turns out! If you can date him and still not care how it turns out – then do it! And if you can’t – then don’t. Love, Rori

  339.  #339Starla on June 12, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Rebecca, if you were to contact him, what would you say to him? Maybe you’ll feel better getting that energy out here.

  340.  #340Starla on June 12, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “There are men out there who love highly sensitive women.”

    This is true and I forget this way too much!!!!!!!

  341.  #341Radiant Rising on June 12, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Finally talked to loverboy and straightened a couple things out. 🙂 Also found out his politics are opposite from mine. *Gulp* No problem…So this is my first real real relationship experience and I am floored how many NVs my feminine brain can conjure up! But I wasn’t this way two or three years ago. I picked up some traumas in these past 15 months and I can feel myself regressing confidence wise. I feel like crying for help! Help! The real me might come out and he won’t like me! He is very excited about seeing me now, but what will happen when he does? I feel like all the beauty and confidence I achieved in the last four years is being tossed out the window…the world is scary mummy, please take me back into your womb where I’m safe, warm and unseen. And free and happy. I feel so scared. 🙁

  342.  #342Radiant Rising on June 12, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Okay something else is happening too! My energy is opening! My hips loosening, my eyes are brightening, and my laugh is sexier! I don’t feel so frozen…how did that happen?

  343.  #343Vi on June 12, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Femininewoman, your comments feel so true to me and wise, I feel so peaceful reading them and saving some of them in my drafts just in case I need some good scripts or …in a word, just in case..:) Love to you!

  344.  #344siren song on June 12, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    checking in with team no contact…day 4 of me not contacting him. he contacted me, though.

    he wanted to dicuss his anger over my cding. it’s been almost 2 months since we’ve been actively dating and he’s back complaining about cding…again… i feel sick of this, like i’m being made wrong to not want be exclusive with a guy who won’t commit. i feel like yelling ‘move on already and let me heal’.

    i feel gross now, like i’ve been slimed.

    keeping on my bridge!

  345.  #345Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    FW ~ I appreciate what you are saying. I will try. I don’t pine all the time but its always at the back of my mind..

  346.  #346Vi on June 12, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Slippin Goddess, are you really a couple? Have you ever had a talk/agreed on being exclusive? and – I feel happy to know you are turning focus on youself..:) great start! Hugs to you!

  347.  #347Starla on June 12, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Also, Rebecca, do you have a channeling list?

    I should use mine more often. They’re things I can do that take 5 minutes or less to switch the channel, although there is no rule that says they have to be quickies.

    My quickie list includes:
    Cleaning something
    Doing as many crunches or pushups as I can
    Doing some favorite yoga poses
    Organizing files/emails
    Filing my nails

  348.  #348Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Starla ~ I guessI could say some vague shallow thing to him. He only seems to want to talk about himself whenever I see him. In truth he is very condescending to me, and really talks down to me. I think he thinks I’m a bit pathetic – and looks down on me. I think thats what winds me up and now I feel I have to prove myself to him. Whenever I text him he’s always a bit lacklustre like he is doing me a BIG favour just by speaking to me. I dunno – he doesn’t seem to “like” me and I don’t know why…

  349.  #349siren song on June 12, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    ooh, my channeling list now includes putting on sally hansen salon nail effects nail wraps! i’ve put a new pair on every 4 days or so…i’m wearing little butterlies on my nails now, guitars and then stars last week.

  350.  #350Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Starla ~ yes, I do keep busy with stuff like that. I just feel a yearning and a sadness for me and I can’t get rid of it..

  351.  #351Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Hi Radiant,

    Your messages to me and your interest makes me feel so soft and relaxed.

    I told him we need to stop because that was taking off the focus from what I really wanted in life : an available man for who I would be number one. He said he understand and the decision is mine. It was hard, we kept exchanging texts after. He said he felt the strong chemistry between us but couldn’t promise he could give me what I want. I told him that if ever his situation changed and I was still free, I’d be happy to go on a proper date with him and do all kind of wild things (we have a running gag about wild things). He said “It’s going there, I can feel it.”

    So I have to hold to my boundary and not come back to this not so harmless flirt and who knows what the future can be!

    I feel release I think. But I have to keep being strong…

  352.  #352Radiant Rising on June 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Hi Lizka!

    You did very well. I can see that he’s still trying to weaken you. Your exchange is very reminiscent of my experience. You’re detecting correctly in needing to stay strong. This is an ongoing thing, everyday you have to renew and restrengthen your resolve. Especially since you both also work together, it is sooooo easy to slip. Keep posting here if you need to. Again I would never tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. Anytime you need, feel absolutely free to tell me anything you need to.

  353.  #353luzydel on June 12, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    “See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to help YOU just BE who you are in their presence by not making any meaning out of anything, or going for anything, or wanting anything beyond just wanting to BE there.

    See if you can fall in love with each moment as something new, unknowable, scary, lovely, whatever shows up.”

    I’ve been doing this and it is liberating; Im not afraid of the outcome because I got myself. If I end up aalone, with someone or with many others it doesn’t matter, all it matters is that I am happy and I feel good…

  354.  #354Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Thank you Radiant!

  355.  #355Vi on June 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    Dominique, it just hit me, your new article! Now I know why I feel so angry and mad at having no closure and want “them” understang how wrong they are having rejected me!!!!
    I CRAVE validation from “the outside”, from other people… everywhere I go and everywhere I direct my attention to….I feel broken if there is no positive validation from my family, men and friends… I NEED someone from the outside to confirm that I am right and approve my pathway…. I endue mysterious “them” with magical power to evaluate me and a kind of know me better than myself…:))) Gosh it feels crazy… and I am spending so much time and energy guessing what’s the best way to get that precious approval from “them”…and it all starts to be really about “their” approval, and not my authentic me…
    Yay! I just found one more lost piece of me …:) My feeling good is the best validation of my deeds….my experience and feeling enriched is the best validation of my deeds…:) someone’s benefit from my experience and positive feedback is just a yummy bonus, not more…:))))) be surprized, right?….yes darling, it’s all about you…mmm….feels good …:) purrrrr….

  356.  #356Lizka on June 12, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    I want my own available hot step up man now.

  357.  #357Vi on June 12, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    I forgive myself for seeking approvals from other people and not feeling in charge of myself…it’s not wrong, it’s just what I’ve been taught.. and I was good at that…:))) cuz I am a smart girl…:) it’s okay.. I feel enriched now…and it feels so good… Love to my dear darling sweetheart me… ((((((((((((((me))))))))))))

  358.  #358Vi on June 12, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Dominique, thank you so much for your articles! I feel enriched reading them.

  359.  #359Vi on June 12, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    and sometimes I feel like crying… just like right now.. awww

  360.  #360Starla on June 12, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    Rebecca 350
    KEEP channeling and don’t stop. All those goals and hopes and dreams you have for yourself? You can start manifesting them 5 or 10 minutes at a time every time you feel overwhelmed with pining.

    Pining is a very addictive feeling, and it’s so hard to detach ourselves. But this is an opportunity to transform yourself into a happier, healthier person.



    he sucks.

  361.  #361Starla on June 12, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Lizka, I feel so proud. And I hope you never text with him again.

    I don’t know how long Divorce takes in your province, but girl, don’t even text with him until he has that signed and approved divorce document

    I feel so proud of you! you voted for abundance and for yourself. You’re not clinging to crumbs

    there are BIG things coming for you now. I can feeeeeeeeeeel it.

    Oh no, I just peed myself a little, I am so excited!

    hehe jk

  362.  #362Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Smile – 232 – Yes- I want a relationship with him, and in my life for baby’s sake. Both.

    It’s been a long and confusing last two years. It’s not all that simple.. he may feel hurt as he’s very masculine and thinks he needs to feel first in everything, (yet wouldn’t pin me down and step up).. he began to, but keeps chickening out, and now seems to just have shut me out. Blaming his issues on me when in fact, he has imagined most of them… he has turned out to have the ability to jump to conclusions and be quite irrational and have these fits of aloofness when he feels like whatever he has to say would be judged as being a jerk. I have done my best to be empathetic or helpful but he decides how he feels on something and that’s it, there’s no changing his mind, only he can do that.

    But yes, I do want a rlsp with him. I think this would be best for all three of us. It would make things emotionally easier for us, hopefully financially easier, we would both feel better about our rlsp with the baby, if we could get our work situations in line, he could spend more time with baby and I could spend more time away from baby AND be able to work more.

    I am also very interested in what our son is learning about loving committed relationships and don’t want him to wonder “why didn’t mommy/daddy love each other? why aren’t they together” and will be afraid to commit to anyone, because he hasn’t been shown a relationship between his parents in which they are committed to working through things together. Bio-Father has had bad experiences with his own parents, between the ages of 9-14 sometime his parents divorced.. in his words there was nothing loving about it, and in fact they still don’t speak and refuse to visit each other’s homes, even. he doesn’t want to end up like this with anyone and have anyone take advantage of him in a divorce.. etc excuses. He seemed to be quite a bit in love with me a little while ago after he returned home and we got more comfortable with the baby.. but now.. since xmas he just closed down and … I fear that closing down in return will make things worse… maybe it won’t, but i feel afraid of it.

  363.  #363Starla on June 12, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    I feel bad for alaska… i don’t feel guilty at all, but i do feel bad for him, because i am clearly not returning his interest and he is just escalating and escalating.

    texting me all the time (i only respond every few days), commenting on my facebook and asking me all sorts of questions trying to get me to engage with him, but it’s not happening, and instead of getting the point, he’s trying even harder.. and it’s not romantic or direct; it’s him trying to sidestep rejection in an insecure and desperate way and this really sends red flags off for me, and has (rightfully so) done so since I first went out with him.

    I almost want to text him and say “hey sorry we fizzled out,” but he is a man and he needs to get a grip. He knows we fizzled out and I told him TWICE that i didn’t like how he was interacting with me.

    Some guys, arrrggghhh. Or my other guy friend, J, who has had the “Starla needs some space and you’re not respecting her request” convo with me twice also, and is still contacting me with “sorry to bug you but….”

    get a grip, guys!!

  364.  #364Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    I guess I know that my faith and optimism in the past has accomplished a lot of inspiration, and I’m just not sure which is the best direction to go.

    Tam -235 – yes, I have had good faith in him all this time.. he returned home when baby was 6 months old, and spent the next year doing a project that didn’t turn out, so felt compelled to take a job even further away than the 2 hrs (2.5 hrs now) which pays very well. At the time he said if he got the job he wanted to “help me”. He’s sent me $100 once, and the rest of the time small amounts for gas or diapers, but nothing else. He evades the question when i ask and now is refusing to discuss it due to me not completing submission of a paper to add his name to birth certificate. (I was, but it didnt get finished due to disagreement and refusal to resolve it). I am shocked at his recent comment that he doesn’t know why I think he should help me with my car payment or anything else, (because of that document not being done).
    He’s had this job for 7 months now, and unfortunately will probably make no where near that amount when he finally moves to my town, which should be soon.

    (wondering, if I take him to court, whether its better to secure child support while he’s making more money – as don’t they base it on a percentage of current income?)

    And yes, when he is mad about something, (which has been often lately), whether it makes any sense or not, he ignores me – except to press me about things HE wants done (like that paper).

    I feel the need to work this out together, for the sake of all of us, baby too. This has to be given a chance.. and I took Feminine Womans advice a while back that his irritability about everything at that time seemed that he may be the more likely candidate that I should pursue romantically, and I had the same thought at the time.

    I think she was very right, …but.. he has serious security systems going on here, I don’t know how to open him again and not sure my closing in return will help. But if that’s the general consensus, maybe I will.

    And no, not harsh at all, all advice considered and appreciated! Thank you!!!

    Smile- 236 – yes… well I have realized I am generally pretty happy wherever i am, but I believe I really need to give this a chance, i feel concern about messing things up for my son. I just feel this is what i need to do, but I can’t make things happen, i am trying to just let it go and “let God”, if i have truly exhausted all my options and done my best.

    And yes, I am trying to remind myself to Listen to what his actions are showing me. They are definitely not the actions of a man in love with me who is ready to step up and move in together like we had talked about before. I feel left behind and rejected and alone in all this with our baby. He loves the baby and wants to spend lots of time with him but he’s not “helping” me at all with HIS responsibilities.

    YES it’s his responsibility to help me with my living expenses or childcare so I can work. grrr. men, i love them. I do.

  365.  #365ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Mr. Observant’s oldest son graduated 8th grade. I sure hope his graduation ceremony wasn’t during his episode. It would feel so sad if he missed that.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    STS are you sure I suggested that you PURSUE him romantically?

  367.  #367Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    RE 348 Rebecca could it be because he feels your vibe?

  368.  #368Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    RE 344 siren song Just a thought… I wonder if he doesn’t feel you are hearing him. He feels invalidated. Have you ever just listened to him? Also have you tried keep telling him what you want is marriage and commitment? A lot of guys just back away when the woman brings up these topics if they are not ready.

  369.  #369Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Rebecca have you ever explored your family of origin history? How did your father treat you? Do you see any similarity with this guy’s condescending style? Wanting to prove yourself to him suggest you might think you need his approval or that you think you are not enough. This might be attractive to you because how you were treated by your dad or significant authoritative figure in your life. Look for where you have to work to prove your worth when you were younger and send compassion to yourself. Forgive yourself and forgive the people who might have wronged you. See if you can turn around the pining energy to do those things.

  370.  #370ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    “Find someone who can change your life, and not just your relationship status. Find somebody that will be there for you through thick and thin, and who isn’t just with you because of the way you look or because of what you can do for them. Everybody deserves someone who makes them look forward to tomorrow. The one who is meant for you encourages you to be your best but still loves & accepts you at your worst. Don’t continue chasing the wrong person while the right person is dying to be loved by you.” -SQ

  371.  #371Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    hmm, i am on a roller coaster today. ups and downs. more up than down:) but finding myself feeling depressed, sad, lethargic. i think part of it may be that I just ate too much without realizing it before it was too late. gonna get up and put my laundry away:)

    but you know what’s “good”? I’m not depressed about HIM or any man. I’m just depressed, period, and I have this single and alone time to sort this stuff out for the long road.

  372.  #372Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    This man who you are still pining for has given you an even more profound inroad into your heart. Thank him silently for his contribution, and then move on. There’s so much more out there for you, so many opportunities, so much love, the intimate kind too.


  373.  #373Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    fw, i loved dominique’s article today. perfect timing for a lot of us here, no? i did contact CF “one last time,” which dominique advises against in her article, but I will read it if I ever feel tempted for another “one last time.” However, I don’t think there will be one:)

  374.  #374Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    here is some really nice and relaxing ‘zen buddhist’ music to soothe frazzled nerves…

  375.  #375Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Starla I understand from Rori that depression is just the lid we put over anger. Have you been asking yourself what am I angry at?

  376.  #376ReceivingGirl on June 12, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Well, it was another busy day. After work, I mowed my grass, watered flowers & garden, took out garbage, ate dinner, answered 1 work email :), washed face, brushed teeth, took medicine and vitamins and now off to sleep. Have a good night Sirens!

  377.  #377Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    Alonka’s and Kaitlyn’s experience are firmly embedded in my brain. Ever since I read their experience I have been convvinced that reaching out one last time never works in our interest.

  378.  #378Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    fw, neither my clinical psychologist nor I see depression as a lid on my anger. I think it would be more accurate to say they’re two sides of the same coin. I also like Tony Robbins’ “Crazy 8” perspective.

    And this coin is exacerbated by my hormones and other physiological factors.

    This is ME though. I can’t speak for anyone else, of course!

    Do you ever get depressed FW? What makes you depressed/angry in your life?

  379.  #379Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    fw 377, i don’t remember what happened with those 2 sirens. can you refresh our memories?

  380.  #380Silver-Tongued Siren on June 12, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    366 FW – lol I know, I used the word pursue, I thought you might say that. You said something to the effect of that he seemed to be a more likely candidate. I am sure you probably did NOT use the word pursue. Because Sirens are pursueD.


    I am glad you had me clarify that. In case anyone were to get the wrong idea. lol

  381.  #381Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    What I suggest is to first just be aware of whatever negative feeling is arising for you. Allow it. Feel it deeply. Yet I want you to keep an energetic eye and hand on the love in your heart at the same time. If you feel the bad feeling feelings overtaking you, flooding you, you can place your real, physical hand right on your chest, over your heart. Then close your eyes, and breathe into that place. Your hands work as in the power of suggestion. They help to awaken, activate, and open a channel for your love to flow through again. They help to allow you to feel into your heart, deep into your heart where love always resides.


  382.  #382Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Lizka I’m so happy and proud of you to read what u said to married guy

  383.  #383Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    maybe “lid” and “2 sides of the same coin” are the same and it’s just splicing semantics.

    i do hate splicing semantics. now THAT makes me angry, haha.

  384.  #384Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Incidents get me angry, I acknowledge it in the moment. I say I feel angry, I ask myself why am I angry in the moment. I have committed to being my own witness so it is easier now to identify when it happens. Or maybe it is because of my age I feel it in my chest and notice my voice rising and sometimes get a headache. Plus I am not afraid of what people think of me or what they can do to me.

  385.  #385Starla on June 12, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    other symptoms of my depression — feeling totally unwilling to get in the shower. i never understood that one. but i’m forcing myself to do it, since i work out harder than anyone’s ever seen every morning:P

  386.  #386siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    FW, what he always always goes back to is me ‘trying to replace him’ through CDing. he doesn’t really say much else. i have listened and i have told him what i want. he keeps coming back to tell me the same things almost verbatim.

    i say ‘it would feel good to have a life with you’ and he says something like (screaming) ‘well, you ruined it by trying to screw other guys’.

    i just really feel like he can’t do it. or won’t. i am tired of being yelled at.

    i feel frustrated because i have listened. i have communicated directly and in a non-blaming way. i really don’t think it’s something better communication will fix. it’s just not happening.

    and the longer i’m out of contact with him the better i feel, so i know it’s right.

  387.  #387siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    FW, what he always always goes back to is me ‘trying to replace him’ through CDing. he doesn’t really say much else. i have listened and i have told him what i want. he keeps coming back to tell me the same things almost verbatim.

    i say ‘it would feel good to have a life with you’ and he says something like (screaming) ‘well, you ruined it by trying to screw other guys’.

    i just really feel like he can’t do it. or won’t. i am tired of being yelled at.

    i feel frustrated because i have listened. i have communicated directly and in a non-blaming way. i really don’t think it’s something better communication will fix. it’s just not happening.

    and the longer i’m out of contact with him the better i feel, so i know it’s right.

  388.  #388Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Both of them was iffing and butting about what might have happened when the guys poofed. They both seemed to be always looking for a reason of what might have happened. They both eventually reached out to the guy. One was immediately regretful because of how the guy responded (Alonka). The next created some short term success with the guy suggesting they would get together and seemingly happy she contacted him. Then he poofed again.

  389.  #389Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    siren song have you tried not responding at all aka the walkaway? Tell him you don’t want to debate anymore and just walk away and choose silence no matter what he is doing? In other words change up your response to try something new.

    This pattern seems to be set.

  390.  #390siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    yep. i have done the walkaway and the last time i did it we stopped dating.

    he seems determined to be angry at me. and it doesn’t seem healthy, particularly the abusive way he speaks to me. and it’s been going on for what feels like forever…i am glad it’s over. i feel done with it.

    i’m just kind of disappointed that i responded to his emails today. i am planning to go totally NC from here on in.

    i feel really good about it.

  391.  #391Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    The last time I remember being in real depression was 10 years ago when my job was threatened and I could see no way out. I got so depressed I almost shut down as it affected my physical health and ability to think. I remember it now that it was so bad that when I did come out on the other end I have sworn since then that I will never “go back there again”. It was too debilitating and I remember it clearly. Things eventually worked out so it felt like I suffered unnecessarily only to realize it is so not worth it. I am a believer that things always work out and stressing about them don’t change anything. I will never go back to that emotional place is what I say now.

  392.  #392siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    i was depressed in university. soooo much stress, no money, too little sleep and too much coffee. i just kind of shut down.

  393.  #393Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    siren song – I remember Starla putting all emails into a folder and not reading them. I also remember an interview from Rori where the interviewer talks about not engaging with others when they bring drama. That way they have no hook so they will eventually be forced to drop it because they have no choice.

  394.  #394siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    i have blocked his email and his number, so there is no way for him to communicate now. except the phone at my work desk, which he phoned 4 times today. but that has caller id, so i don’t have to talk to him.

    the last email he sent said that me choosing to go on coffee dates with guys ‘destroyed his soul’. so much drama.

  395.  #395siren song on June 12, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    thanks as always for your thoughts FW

  396.  #396Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    Since we come together at our common level of woundedness—our common level of self-abandonment—Don and Megan were perfect for each other. They fell passionately ‘in love’ because Megan’s wounded self did a great job of caretaking Don’s feelings. Don felt loved by Megan, and Megan felt needed by Don.

    The problem was that Megan couldn’t possibly meet all of Don’s needs, and when she didn’t, he was angry and miserable. The more miserable he become, the more guilty and responsible Megan felt. Anger, misery and guilt do not create passion


  397.  #397Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    Your Relationship Tip For This Week
    Laurie Weiss, Ph.D.

    Togetherness (Tip #97)
    Avoid blaming your partner for a problem in your
    relationship. Address all problems as if you both
    contribute to them. You do!

    The angrier you are about how your partner is
    acting, the more likely it is that you are doing
    something to contribute to the problem. Your
    contribution may have been avoiding talking about
    the problem in the past or overreacting. This can
    be difficult to sort out but is usually well worth
    the effort.

    Your weekly assignment, should you choose to
    accept it:

    Make a list of the things you do and do not do
    about a problem you have with your partner’s
    behavior. Ask your partner what would happen if
    you changed your behavior by doing what you now
    don’t do, or vice versa.

  398.  #398Femininewoman on June 12, 2012 at 8:53 pm

  399.  #399Turquoise on June 12, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Hi sirens! Hope all is well 🙂 I wanted to testify to the value in true Cding. Things have been great with dreamy, really great, but the past few days I haven’t heard as much from him, and I leaned forward a few times. He always replies, but I can feel the difference, and it’s only 3 weeks in, not 2 months. I know he’s swamped with work and home projects, but I also know that I feel best getting a lot of attention. Tonight I went out with the other guy I mentioned here, I’m calling him eye candy. He’s my tall, dark haired, green eyed dream guy… And wayyy cuter than his pics. Too bad his life sounds like a hot mess. We had dinner and drinks and talked for 3 hours…. Was fun. Our girls will have cheer together, so I’ll see him at school events, so definitely starting out as friends and as practice. He texted to tell me what a great time he had, he really likes my vibe and has never been able to talk to someone as easily as we did tonight. I had fun, barely thought about dreamy and was calm and relaxed. My vibe is different now. I feel no urgency to make things work with anyone.
    I felt some different feelings with him than I have with other guys I’ve dated, I just wanted to listen and be present. He’s got a lot going on… Will be hectic for awhile, but who knows. He seems sincere, he is likes le, but brings a fair amount of drama.
    I feel so funny, like I know he’d be the bad choice of the 2…. and the old me would have been completely drawn to it,… But dreamy, if he leans forward again, is a really great guy. BUT, my point is how great Cding is because it keeps the nv’s at bay, I feel relaxed and confident and do happy with myself, that I don’t feel I have to do anything, just be me. Be receptive. I feel at peace. C is coming in this weekend and sounds exhausted and miserable. Found myself wishing earlier today that he’d meet someone who makes him happy. Who would have thought that a few months ago? Even a month ago. He’s always going to be on my bridge, but not on my horse.
    Thank you Rori, Dominique and all the sirens who have been on my journey. I found myself, I love myself, and I have changed. I am so happy. All by myself, without being in love with anyone but me.

  400.  #400Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    🙂 hi turquoise, i’m so glad you dropped in.

  401.  #401Turquoise on June 12, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Hi Starla! Thanks 😉 I’m going to try and get here more regularly again.

    About the making one last try….. I did it 3 times, 3! And didn’t bring him back, hurt like hell in the moment, but helped me accept that he’s really not coming back, I need to find a new way to have him in my life, and that I really do want the relationship that’s amazing for me. It might be hard seeing him this weekend, because trust me, I still want him…. I just am not willing to hold myself in that painful place of feeling rejected and unloveable any longer. He takes great care of me and the girls, and would do anything to make us happy, accept come home. He’s a smart guy, I trust him…. So there is a good reason he sees it that way. So, my commitment is to myself and finding my wholeness. And I am getting there. So many hugs and squeezes to all of you. 🙂
    Eye candy just texted me to let me know he doesn’t want to be just friends forever, he wanted to be clear on that…. Lol. Guess that’s good because I really wanted to kiss him tonight 🙂

  402.  #402Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    when i was in the shower tonight, i was feeling weird but oddly peaceful about my uncle (who I have only spoken to for the first time in the past few years, since my family is so disconnected) not responding to my messages to him, or my posting on his facebook wall, etc. And I thought to myself, “I have a lot to learn here by not internalizing this behavior from an important male in my life.” And I let it go.

    And then I got out of the shower, and lo and behold, he responded to my facebook posting and messaged me to talk about my coming on a cruise with the family.

    letting go RULES. whenever it happens naturally, amazing things fall into place. I wish I could figure out how to genuinely and naturally let this happen in other parts of my life, but unfortunately, when I “wish” for it, it’s not exactly natural.

    ah well. bless this lovely vibe, anyway, for when it comes around, it’s so sweet:)

  403.  #403Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    turquoise, you are on fire:)

  404.  #404Starla on June 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    I just cut off my gorgeous nails for my MMA training. I feel sad… long painted nails make me feel so feminine, but I can’t make a good fist with long nails.

  405.  #405Starla on June 12, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    Thank you, Starla, for flossing my teeth
    Thank you for giving me a facial
    Thank you for showering
    Thank you for shaving my legs
    Thank you for exfoliating my skin
    Thank you for cooking me dinner
    Thank you for washing my clothes

  406.  #406Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    65 fw
    Interesting letter and I enjoyed reading it but it seems she switched into masculine mode when she a) commented on his phone instead of just saying thank u; And b) when she tapped Jim on the shoulder and gave her business card. Verrryyy masculine IMHO …. Eeep I actually cringed when I read that.

  407.  #407Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Him not Jim

  408.  #408Brandylion on June 12, 2012 at 10:22 pm


    A guy from South Carolina on PoF who asked me back in May for my number contacted me again today.

    I told him then a line I stole from Daria about being on the site to meet people in person and he seems far away, and I don’t want a LDR.

    He replied then that he respected that, but that he “could be able to make things happen.”

    So today I reiterated that I don’t want a LDR and that I didn’t feel respected at all, and in fact felt angry being asked a second time when no means no.

    He replied that he was just doing me a favor anyway and “I dont Wont. You anymore.”

    Sure, dude. Sure you’re doing *me* a favor. You just keep telling yourself whatever you have to to make yourself feel better, and I will just feel sorry for you. You see, I get to keep on being me, and that is pretty fu(king amazing, but you still have to be you, and that doesn’t look like such a great option from where I’m sitting.

    And now I’m done being just as hateful and mean as he was.

  409.  #409Emerson on June 12, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Starla I struggle with depression too and it got way better when I exercise so yay for u and all your workouts!!!

    I feel numb lately like I don’t really “love” anyone. What does that mean??

    It scares me and has been bothering me for a while . I used to feel different I could feel love…

  410.  #410Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    FW ~ You said..

    Rebecca have you ever explored your family of origin history? How did your father treat you?

    Yes, that is a good point. I am a mixture of 2 cultures which I think is very difficult for me. My fathers family are very straight laced and my mothers family are very outspoken and domineering. I would say I’m a mixture of both but I find it very difficult to fit in just with one side. I don’t know if this makes sense?

    I consider my “true” friends to be the ones who really understand this about me, and don’t mind that I often need to explore this dynamic. I feel it has really affected my personality quite deeply.

    In the past I have been to therapists and have been told that a lot of my emotional problems come from being of mixed race origin – and I really feel that. I feel like I belong to both cultures – yet I don’t “feel” I belong to either. It’s left me with a deep longing to belong somewhere and with someone.

    I know in the greater scheme of things it is not a big deal – but in some profound way I feel like it has really, really affected my life. I’ve also never been able to talk about this with my parents. I don’t know what I would say, or what they would say. I just tend to get on with it. It seems such a weird, superficial thing to be upset about and I feel guilty about it.

    Regarding condescending men – know I don’t recall either my father or mother being like that. In fact the opposite – I always felt supported. However, I felt a lot of criticism from aunts, uncles, grand parents etc. And I guess my parents were very sensitive to this and over protected me. I think that’s why I have such a strong radar if I sense someone doesn’t like me, makes fun of me or criticises me. If that makes sense?

    I suppose I always felt like my parents “babied” me. They always jumped to my rescue if anyone, in their eyes, was “picking” on me. I was always their little darling. But what that did was to build a strong defense system in me which often goes into over ride – I seem to be sensitive to the smallest of criticism.

    I guess I grew up in quite a tough neighbourhood and my parents felt they had to “protect” me. I think this has left me feeling that I need protecting. I always have this strong sense of “if you’re not with me you are agsinst me”. And I think that’s where it comes from.

    Also, I have a frustration about being “female”. I’ve always felt from my mum at least that women should accept their lower place in society and that’s just how men treat us. Ie “that is the way men are”. “That is the way it is”. I have always felt this deeply frustrating.

    My mum was always telling me to be quiet and not speak up for myself. I think if I spoke my mind, and the truth, she would be worried that it would embarrass her. She was scared that I would go against the grain and people would see me for what I really was and not like me. She always felt that she knew how to hamdle people and I should take from her lead. But I just found this controlling and inauthentic. She would get very frustrated with me for being too honest. I have to say I found her stratergising unbearable. It is so hard to live like that.

    I’m not sure if this answers your question?

  411.  #411Nanceen on June 12, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Hi anyone around?

  412.  #412Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    FW ~ if it’s my “vibe” that’s keeping him away, then I wish I could change it…

  413.  #413Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Starla ~ exactly Fu(k Him!!

  414.  #414Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Much as I like Dominques artcicle about wanting your man back. To me it sends out the vibe again that us women need to be “protected”. ie DO not contacf him!! This will be bad for you. This will hurt you and you will NOT be able to cope with it. This advice scares me… I’m not sure why.. I need to think about this and the triggers it sets off inside me.

  415.  #415Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    I wonder if I am rebelling against my parents “over-protecting” of me by going for “challenging” (bad?) men?? Hmmm… Interesting…
    How do I feel about this? I feel butterflies in my stomach… Argghhh

  416.  #416Rebecca on June 12, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    Maybe I am trying to “prove” myself to my parents.. I feel scared and tight chested at this thought…

  417.  #417Daria on June 13, 2012 at 12:45 am

    today 2 people judged me as homeless when i wasnt even thinking of myself as that

    taht triggers me soooo much


  418.  #418Daria on June 13, 2012 at 12:47 am

    and i want to heal this

    peoople dont get me dont see me as me

    pretending im something im not

    surprising them

    to keep them offbalance

    to be safe

    not vulnerable

  419.  #419Tam on June 13, 2012 at 12:53 am

    Hello, and hello team NC!
    It’s been 8 or 9 days and I can’t remember exactly since I am clearly not that bothered – this is good.

    What’s not good is the anger I have (at him). I would like to just feel angry directed at nobody, but I feel angry at him and me too. This guy is the reason I am now stuck in back home when I should be in Florida. He more or less gatecrashed my relationship (and I let him) and as I was going to get married with my then bf, so I was able to stay with him in the US, it has derailed my whole life. Because I let it. Ok, so bf was not the ideal man either but it would have worked at least for a while.

    So Mr U basically crashed into my relationship, fought for me like a lion – and then when he had me said ‘ok, let’s stay friends, because we want different things (ie he is not ready for relationship). nice one. I am angry that he didn’t tell me before. He doesn’t want to see me with an other guy, but he doesn’t want me either. This makes me feel angry.

    Guess I was triggered by seeing him post something on one of our common friends fb page….it triggers me like hell…urgh.

    I don’t mind about the no-contact, I just want to get rid of my anger. My anger of having to be here, where I do not want to be. My anger at Mr U that he took me away and then dropped me and then said ‘but you can marry my brother for papers’….I am angry that I fell for all this cr*p again, I am sooooooooooooooooooooo angry. And I just don’t know how to shift it and yes, it is turning into a depression. I do not want to get up in the mornings, I am paralyzed. And it is all from me – he just goes about his merry life as if nothing happened – actually I feel like the one who is screwed up here.


  420.  #420Daria on June 13, 2012 at 12:58 am

    Brandylion –

    uhoh! i feel shocked to read this because i have stuff to learn from here

    “He replied then that he respected that, but that he “could be able to make things happen.”

    So today I reiterated that I don’t want a LDR and that I didn’t feel respected at all, and in fact felt angry being asked a second time when no means no.”

    i do that too, get mad at men . aww 🙁

    well he said “could be able to make things happen”

    so i would have to practice trusting him

    this is where Ok works well

    and then trust that he can

    including a first date, soon

    he will poof out if he cant

    but just cuz hes contacting me again doesnt mean im being disrespected

    the guy WANTS TO GET TO KNOW ME!

    thats is good!

    (omg i feel mad at men for this ish sometimes)

    but the truth is i can just let it fade and often do

    and i want to trust the men even MORE if i can

    some people travel a lot like me, i want a man like that so i dont want to judge him out!

  421.  #421amazing on June 13, 2012 at 1:06 am

    This post Rori is the most beautiful I have ever read.Not to mention that it fits exactly in my life where I am right now.I love it, and I praise it, because it is the essence of it all.Tank you so much!

  422.  #422Tam on June 13, 2012 at 1:31 am

    I feel my anger eating me up from the inside. Slowly. I try to let it be and do things for me but everytime I stop – it’s there, and it seems to get bigger.

  423.  #423Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 1:54 am

    #336 Femininewoman

    “I would ask myself how can I love someone who treats me this way? It doesn’t sound like you feel adored and cherished. What is it in this relationship that you want to keep it alive? What are you getting out of it?”

    At other times he’s fantastic.. Loving, caring, makes me feel special, loved, cherished.. We are really close at times and then these other times hes like another person..
    When he has the drugs, if I get upset hes so sorry.. He admits he needs to stop and is so gentle..
    The next day its like hes forgotten..

    When he leaves and goes to get his child when his ex calls – even if he isnt supposed to be having her, he is just trying to keep everyone happy. He feels guilty so he goes. Then I feel lonely and rejected as its ben happening too much lately.

    I do paint a very bad picture of him on here.. but he’s so loving in other ways. He’s very receptive to my moods I think. If I were to go now to him all confident, happy, flirty and just kinda forget about things he would respond so warmly. It’s just me getting to that place.. but then once these things happen again it still pisses me off so we’re back to square one..

    Is it me I have to sort out? My feelings?

  424.  #424Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 1:58 am

    #346 Vi

    “are you really a couple? Have you ever had a talk/agreed on being exclusive?”

    This comment made me feel a little uneasy. I’m sorry :).. Yes, we’re definately a couple and definately exclusive. There are no doubts there.

    “I feel happy to know you are turning focus on youself..:) great start! Hugs to you!”

    Thank you Vi.. I believe I have alot of work to do on myself. I have low self esteem and I get wrapped up in my man. I’d rather spend time with him than friends etc. but then again he’s the same.
    I know I should concentrate more on my own life and build myself up aswell.

  425.  #425Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 2:08 am

    I mean.. just saw his facebook update..
    Hes saying hes going to start ging to the gym and boxing as of next week..

    and I feel bad..

    Why would I feel bad at this? – its a good thing!

    Why wuld I feel bad about him having a life? Other than I’m feeling less and less a part of it.
    Drugs, work, child, gym etc all take time away from us I guess. I just feel like he hasnt got time for me anymore 🙁

    ..and I kno the response will be.. get your own life.. right?

  426.  #426Tam on June 13, 2012 at 2:22 am

    I can feel a desire to tell Mr U just how angry I actually am, as I suspect he has no idea. But it would make no difference, I would most likely feel worse, and he is so self centered anyway….
    Anger, go away. I want to be happy.

  427.  #427Ella on June 13, 2012 at 2:47 am

    Slipping Goddess,

    I haven’t got much time for replying now however my overall strong feeling about this is overwhelmed and uncomfortable with the amount of problems listed.

    I think if you presented that to him like that now it would totally backfire and not help the situation or relationship at all.

    I would not say anything for now.

    Just respond using FMs to questions he asks about the present.

    I would give it some time before talking about the relationship stuff. There is a sense of urgency and that is what could mess you up.

    I have been there lots of times 🙂

    You will get a chance to say what you want to say, but, wait until he approaches and asks what is wrong …

    And then I would suggest keep it brief.

    Re-write your scripts taking out all the ‘you’s’ like ‘you are in the bathroom doing coke’ etc….

    Instead say something like ‘I feel so alone and afraid. I don’t want to feel lonely while I a with my man. I feel really afraid when I see coke being used’


    It is challenging to list the issues this way but so worth it.

    For now when he contact you could try something like ‘I don’t want to talk about everyday stuff right now because I a feeling too upset’

    And leave it at that.

    The next move is his.

    What do you think?


  428.  #428Lizka on June 13, 2012 at 2:55 am

    Thank you Emerson and Starla for being proud and happy for me.

    I’ll try not to fall back again, but the truth is it’s going to be hard because he is working next to me an he walks by my desk 100 times a day and smile at me. My boss even booked weekly coaching session for me with him yesterday. Hahaa weird.

    Anyway, I’ll take it day by day. For today I’m not texting. Phone will stay in my purse and I will focus on my work and making money. Tomorrow, we’ll see. But I’ll try for another day for sure.

    Got to wake up and go shower now. Have a good day sirens. Thank you for supporting me. Please don’t judge me too hard whatever happens. xoxo

  429.  #429Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 2:59 am

    Thank you Ella, that makes sense. The responses on here help so much.

    I am just feeling so overwhelmed right now and you’re right, there is a sense of urgency.

    I’m just struggling to understand how you write feeling messages to normal everyday conversation.

    Eg. Text this monring..
    “You’re going to need the car tonight aren’t you?”

  430.  #430Linda on June 13, 2012 at 3:51 am

    See if you can allow every person you encounter, every man you love, to help YOU just BE who you are in their presence by not making any meaning out of anything, or going for anything, or wanting anything beyond just wanting to BE there.

    A statment like this does not make sense to me. I am intuitive. I can not nor should I turn it off. There were many things that I hear in conversation and relationship interactions that jump out at me, I have dismissed them by not saying anything… but did not forget them.

    FOr example: I was having an innocent conversation about the walls that they have recently built around the interstate that circles around the city I live in. The man I have been with the last two years, said… “They were built to block road noise, and they really work. I was in a place by the interstate and it was really quiet”…. hmmm the only places around that area were houses.. ? Why what he in a place like that? I wondered, but did not comment, I just let it go. OHHHHH wait, NOW I get it, You were looking for a place to LIVE without ME!

    Everything means something, everything! I will never turn off my antenna, I just need to act on the things that it picks up!

    For all of you pining for a text or a call or relationship from a man that is not pursueing you… He is not calling or pursuing because he does not WANT to. We have no control period.

    I am wearing my BLUNT hat today.



  431.  #431Lizka on June 13, 2012 at 3:51 am

    I was annoyed with seeing ATW’s toothbrush in my holder in my bathroom.

    I just threw it in the garbage.

    Now I sooo want to text him “I just threw your toothbrush BTW, you’re not welcome here anymore”.

    But that would be closure and b*tchy so I won’t do it.

    But it would be soooo much fun!!

  432.  #432Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:04 am

    Ok.. So he asked about me going into work for the first time tomorrow and I replied that I was and I felt really excited.

    Then he just replied “Bet you cant wait.. So whats happening then are you going to want the car for tomorrow?”

    I replied “No, its ok Im going to sort something. Need some time to get my head together, things dont feel good lately.”

    He replied “Ok no problem, good luck”

    This is a man I have been with a year and a half.. and to me he just seems so uninterested or bothered

    🙁 ..tears..

    I dont want time to get my head together.. I just want him 🙁 I wanna feel loved.. Whys he acting like this..

  433.  #433Vi on June 13, 2012 at 4:08 am

    Slippin Goddess,
    I am sorry if my question felt harsh, I didn’t want that, I feel sad and I am sorry.. ((((((((Slippin Goddess))))))))

  434.  #434Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:10 am

    No, no.. It’ ok.. 🙂

    I’m just so sensitive at the moment.. 🙁 xx

  435.  #435Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:15 am

    Me: “I need to get my head together, things dont feel good lately”

    His reply “Ok, no problem, well good luck”

    My repy “I just dont feel loved or special anymore, and that reply kinda proves why doesnt it 🙁 No interest, no care”

    His reply “Well I am giving you space after what yav just said.. Im not gonna hound you am I”

    Here we go.. heres were I start messin it up

  436.  #436Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:25 am

    Slippin Goddess maybe it was because he never really had the space to show his full masculine self? He does not seem uninterested to me. This space you are giving him and showing him that you love yourself might inspre him.

  437.  #437Linda on June 13, 2012 at 4:30 am

    Again with my BLUNT Hat on today

    Lots of men dont do relationship well. THe reason?…. because they dont VALUE them.

    If he does not call or pursue, it is becaue he does not want to. The energy that is used trying to figure the things out that men say and do is enormous!
    I bet if it was translated into electricity it would light a whole city indefinately!


  438.  #438Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:35 am

    Linda I know some married men who value their relationships and really invest in them. Many single are not ready for one nor feel that they can successfully do relationships. Maybe because they never had good role models growing up.

  439.  #439Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:39 am

    Thanks Femininewoman.. Your response made me feel a little better.
    I just feel he is so uninterested though.

    I mean. I said I feel unloved and just dont feel special.
    He replies that hes giving me space and hes not going to hound me.

    Wouldnt it be great if his girlfriend is feeling down, unloved and not special if he did hound her and show her how much he loved her.. Rather than sit back, do nothing and act even more uninterested.

    Mind boggles..

  440.  #440Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:39 am

    Slippin Goddess don’t tell him what he is thinking or feeling. Only share how heavy your heart feels about the things that are weighing on you. Try to totally leave his behavior out and share what you feel and want in your life.

  441.  #441Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:43 am

    I just feel like I want to scream.
    I’m so sensitive at the moment. I feel unheard, unloved, uncared for.. Completely unimportant.

    I have sore eyes, a lump in my throat and a tight chest.
    I feel sick..

    ..and really deep down I know I shouldnt be relying on him for all that love anyway. I should love myself. But right now that seems easier said than done.

    Hope you dont judge me. I just feel so down. I want him to chase me, to prove how much he loves me again. To put me first and make time for me. Ask me to spend time with him.

    ..and yet all the time I’ve got this fear he’s just going to turn around and end it. Like he doesn’t need me anymore.


  442.  #442Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:45 am

    He doesn’t want to be. Responsible for your happiness. You have to take on that responsibility then share the happiness with him. If he could make himself happy he would not turn toug drugs.

  443.  #443Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:48 am

    Slippin Goddess why would he NEED you?

  444.  #444Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:49 am

    Aah.. what you say makes so much sense ..of course.

    I’m putting too much emphasis on him to make me happy.
    I just wished these horrible feelings would disappear so I could be strong and be the person he fell for.. that would probably make him the person I fell for..

  445.  #445Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 4:52 am

    I guess this morning I was trying to work out how things have changed.

    When I first met him he’d just moved back to his home city. His relationship had ended. He stopped seeing his kid. He had no job and had lost touch with alot of friends.

    He only had me and his daughter and he treated me like a princess. He was amazing.
    He didnt have drugs at all for the first few months I met him.
    Then he started having them again, he got a new job though and friends from work.

    Hes back on his feet.. kinda.
    His daughters older.. I just was thinking back to how it was at the beginning and thinking did he just ‘need’ me then and now he doesnt as such.

    I dunno.. My minds just running away with me looking for excuses.. Its me I have to work on.

  446.  #446Linda on June 13, 2012 at 4:57 am

    Feminine Woman

    Yes.. there is truth in what you say. Some men do invest, some dont. Growing up with out a role model has validity too. However, if you are in a relationship and a behavior pattern emerges and you speak to him about how it makes you feel and ask what do you think (speaking to the man)… and you get no change, or response. Well there you have it. NO Interest.

    I did not have a good role model growing up seeing my parents relationship, or even how to be a good mother…. I overcame those influences because I wanted to.

    The key word here is “wanting to” motivation, valueing yourself and others.

    It is my experience, no amount of loving, giving space, doing my thing, making myself happy, made any difference for me.


    I have my blunt suit on today too.

  447.  #447Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 4:57 am

    422 Slippin Goddess that is normal. It is a reason women in abusive relationships stay. The good times are so good. Have you read old articles on the blog especially about difficult situations?

  448.  #448Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 5:01 am

    Yep SGoddess tell yourself you are the air he needs to breathe, you are enough for him or any man to help lift your vibe. Modern Siren could really help you.

  449.  #449Tam on June 13, 2012 at 5:01 am

    If I get any more angry I might burst and make a big mess. And now people start posting Dalai Lama quotes and motivational/love quotes on fb also. It triggers me today in such a way that I want to tell them ‘one more quote and I am going to vomit’.
    I am a little ball of exquisit and unadulterated anger today and wish I could take the anger and do something productive with it. Instead I just want to hit out and everyone and everything. Urgh. Okay, I will calm down now.

  450.  #450Slippin' Goddess on June 13, 2012 at 5:04 am

    I am the air he needs to breathe. I am enough for him or any other man. Aaaahh 😉

    haha.. Oh god why am I wasting my days getting all worked up and stressed over him. I’m my own worst enemy. I wish I was back in work already so I had something else to focus on.

    When Im working he’s the one getting all upset and feeling unloved..

  451.  #451Francesca on June 13, 2012 at 5:12 am

    When I started dating EC, he was very honest with me about his addiction to drugs and what happened that made him go to therapy (he was so high and out of it that he wanted to commit suicide but a friend saved him).

    He still hasn’t told me everything about it, just bits and pieces here and there because he doesn’t want to scare me.

    A few months later, when we were really a couple, I told him that I wished I had met him before.

    He then said that it was better that way, that he wouldn’t have been ready to be in a relationship with me while he was intoxicated all the time.

    He was a whole different person then and focused only on himself.

    All this to say that there are times when someone will need to go to therapy to get rid of the addiction to finally be able to be in a relationship with someone.

    Just my two cents…

  452.  #452Linda on June 13, 2012 at 5:16 am

    No amount of, tool using, loving, giving, giving space, being, discussion, silence, doing things that made me happy…nothing made any true difference. In the end the opportunity for a great relationship was rejected by him.

    Lots of men want to coast, find someone that “does it” for them. “It” can mean lots of things too.

    A man who says “IT” is not all there. Well I can truely say that he did NOT do “IT” for me. We should not feel lonely in someones company. I did. He was COLD as ICE! He used his “feeling blue” or depression as the reason. YUCK ! THere is no place for you or a relationship when a man is consumed with the things he was consumed with.

    It is the same with men and women. If they do not have a good image of themselves, love themselves, then they are not good partnership material.


  453.  #453Dominique on June 13, 2012 at 5:27 am

    Vi – #355 – Awesome. This is a HUGE revelation, a big piece to healing. YAY!!!


  454.  #454Dominique on June 13, 2012 at 5:35 am

    You are so welcome Vi, and crying is good. It’s a wonderful release and a cleansing.


  455.  #455Rebecca on June 13, 2012 at 5:41 am

    Going back to the issue of “vibe”. This guy that I like said he had picked up on the vibe that I liked him. I was shocked about this because I hadn’t flirted with him at all. Nothing. Nada. I deliberately didn’t because I didn’t want to be in the situation that I am in now – with him. I wore my worse clothes, avoided eye contact, lent so far back I was horizontal. I just guess that wasn’t enough to keep him out??! I would never have made a move on him..?!

  456.  #456Dominique on June 13, 2012 at 5:46 am

    Turqouise – #399 – Wow – I LOVE hearing this. Sending you love and big congratulations on your blossoming.


  457.  #457Starla on June 13, 2012 at 5:48 am

    Tam, I am also feeling very angry today. It is also eating me up. I think I could vomit.

    It’s the hormones making it that extreme, I’m sure.

  458.  #458Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 5:49 am

    Tam how about stomping or just shaking yorself to move that energy around?

  459.  #459Heart on June 13, 2012 at 5:49 am

    The Facebook Saga continues…
    Well Today – Manboy like my FB status…I felt surprised by thid and the write after I made my FB status, he made one talking about this place he was at and how it reminded him so much of ACME (the place we both worked at)
    I felt really surprised he mentioned our former workplace. I felt he was reaching out to me.
    For the first time- I didn’t feel angry but I still felt like withholding…I didn’t want to Like his FB Status update (becaude I didnt really liked the place that much) but I missed him …I felt like I was withholding. I remember FW telling me that maybe his little boy wanted to play with my little girl. So I just unzipped my heart and liked his message. I felt scared like – ick now he’l know I miss him…the I felt like I did something wrong…likeI was leaning forward…Was I?
    Then I felt good. Then I felt expectant …then I felt angry at myself for feeling expectant…Then I felt embarrassed that WAS making such a big deal about an FB interaction. ThenI got bored.
    What do you guys think …was I leaning forward?

    I have some plans this weekend – meeting up with a guy friend who I contacted me…And then maybe another guy I judt met…It really balances you when u have other men to think about…

  460.  #460Dominique on June 13, 2012 at 5:50 am

    Emerson – #409 – I have felt this way, a great deal actually and for long periods of time, even while in my what is as you know a great relationship.

    I wonder if it’s part of how some people heal. It’s not a shutting down, but maybe it’s a putting aside for a bit?

    I’m thinking aloud here. I want to ponder this some more. Thank you for presenting this as food for thought.


  461.  #461Dominique on June 13, 2012 at 5:54 am

    Rebecca – #414 – It’s not about protecting yourself; it’s about changing old patterns and habits which don’t serve you, which interfere with your healing, which get in your way.


  462.  #462Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 5:55 am

    Don’t be shocked Rebecca men are not fools and they are very sensitive to our vibe. I love the processing you did about your family. I would do more of that to get aware of how I work and change focus to me me me.

  463.  #463Tam on June 13, 2012 at 5:55 am

    @ Starla and FW, I already tried going outside in the rain and just ‘being’ angry. It worked for a bit. Then I got triggered by that fb, and the worst is I just looked again and saw ‘he’ posted a ‘like’ on one of our friends post and it reads like this:
    ‘a woman should have a man that destroys her lipstick and not her mascara’. He liked it, yeah right, talking of making a good impression..of course it’s a pretty girl who posted that.
    Oh, my anger came back full force and I felt like saying underneath ‘yeah, so why do you ‘like’ that, since you are not one of those men, are you?’. But of course I didn’t, I wouldn’t, ever.
    I don’t know why I am feeling so angry today, it must be a ‘stage’ and it’s not even hormonal (that passed last week). It is just pure anger at being back here, at not getting married and staying in the US and at getting rejected by Mr U…I just feel so so angry. Aaaaaaaaaaaargh.
    Sorry for spamming ladies. I hope the anger will propel me forward and to change my life yet again and get out of this hole I am in. 🙁
    (((((Mr U)))) – for being clueless
    SO THERE!!!!

  464.  #464Starla on June 13, 2012 at 6:04 am

    at least I have MMA to take my anger out on. i’m getting good. i can punch and kick and knee and elbow like no one’s business. and i look hot as h*ll in my workout gear.

  465.  #465Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 6:19 am

    Tam checking on fb is obviously not helping so what dod dyou think you can do about that?

  466.  #466Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 6:20 am

    Slippin Goddess notice those feelings and sink into them.

  467.  #467Heart on June 13, 2012 at 6:24 am

    Tam – Facebook…the ruin of us all..Lol!

  468.  #468Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:25 am

    @FW, I had already blocked him but then realised it was a bit silly since we have common friends and it’s a little immature. And I don’t want to check but sometimes one of my friends posts something and I can’t help but seeing. Argh.
    I should take a time out from all of our friends’ pages, but surely I can’t block everybody…that would be the solution 😉
    Actually, I have to smile about myself a little also. It’s all silly.
    Especially the fb. When I posted something about my anger, I got loads of male attention and comments. How strange.
    I vow to stay away from checking too much, in any case I have plenty of ‘me’ stuff I should be doing. Onwards and upwards.
    Thanks for your comments ladies 🙂

  469.  #469Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:28 am

    @ Heart, it certainly is. Luckily I am not friends with ‘him’, so I don’t have to see too many shenanigans…
    Actually, I occasionally opt out for a week (disband my account), but do miss it and come back..

  470.  #470Heart on June 13, 2012 at 6:28 am

    I get triggered so much by stuff Manboy writes and posts on FB.. I feel like he writes a status message right after mine to het mine attention…and I wonder if he thinks Im doing that as well…Regardless he is doing Nada in real life…

  471.  #471Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 6:28 am

    “When Im working he’s the one getting all upset and feeling unloved..”

    Maybe your boy energy needs to be employed? How about some gardening?

    “Im not gonna hound you am I” Maybe he doesn’t want to create more of the negative feelings. Right now you are telling him that he is failing at the relationship. Giving him/yourself space will likely allow your words to sink . When he gets it he is likely to upgrade himself and move towards you again. If you focus on lifting your vibe now and feeling happy you will be able to share that with him then. Try to go out and enjoy the breeze, the beach (if there is one available), flowers, animals at a petting zone – something. Try to identify what makes your heart sing Slippin Goddess outside of him and the relationship. How about dancing or rollerblading?

  472.  #472Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 6:29 am

    Heart sounds like a symptom of fear of intimacy to me. How about you stopping to see what you might inspire?

  473.  #473Femininewoman on June 13, 2012 at 6:32 am

    Tam anger can be really sexy so I am not surprised about the attention you get. Maybe when you do post about it, also share some creative way that you going to use to get it out.

  474.  #474Heart on June 13, 2012 at 6:36 am

    Tam – Can I ask what he wrote that triggered you? If you don’t want to say it’s ok.

    Yeah I hate when something on FB jolts you from other of nowhere. But I only think it’s good to get that triggered in a safe place…you know away from the situation just yiur phone/computer…You really have the time and space to sink it. Still the constant triggering is…Exhausting.

  475.  #475Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:37 am

    FW, that’s a nice idea!! Or I could ask for input 😉

  476.  #476Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:42 am

    @ heart, well what triggered me in the first place and to the no contact was that he courted me like there’s no tomorrow and when it came down to it ran away saying ‘oh maybe we can just be friends’ – after going through all the motions of ‘oh I’d like a relationship with you’ and bla bla. In the end he got scared. Whatever.
    What’s triggering me now was that he pretends left right and centre that he is a ‘good man’ looking for a relationship, posting his wisdoms on our common friends’ sites, with one particular I am close to he even takes the trouble of translating them into German. My mother tongue…Triggerrrrrrrrr!!!!!Whilst all the time hiding from me.
    The latest episode was just a ‘like’ on a girl posting that ‘women need a man who ruins their lipstick not their mascara’ – which triggered me big time, as he did the exact opposite to me. And he does know himself, because he opened up to me about all his fears and ‘not sure he can do relationship’, ‘not sure he is a good man’ bla bla. Just the simple ‘like’ on that triggered me – stupid but the kind of mood I am in today.
    Spamming again. Sorry ladies.

  477.  #477Heart on June 13, 2012 at 6:48 am

    Tam – Do you think He is posting it for you to see? Maybe he’s trying to tell you he wants a relationship now?
    How long has it been since you’ve been in NC mode?

  478.  #478ReceivingGirl on June 13, 2012 at 6:50 am

    I feel so much better. Mr. Observant called me this morning!! 🙂 He said he is feeling better and the meds are good. He asked if he could call me later. It was soooo nice to hear his voice!! 🙂 One weight was lifted off my mind.

  479.  #479Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:53 am

    @ Heart. Yeah, I do think he is posting it for me to see, not so much the mascara thing as that isn’t a close friend, but the German stuff…but I might be making it up. Nah, he only wrote the ‘platonic friends is probably the best way to go’ about 9 days ago and I have not answered it as I am – ANGRY – lol.

    Look Hun, he gatecrashed my wedding plans, told me he wanted a relationship, courted me like I was going out of business and upon me returning to Germany (which was partly his doing), he kinda poofed. He couldn’t even handle the stress of seeing me on my last night in Florida, he wanted to and then last minute he pulled out (too much pressure for the fragile soul? IDK).
    Yeah, he loves me, I am sure of that – but he is just damaging me instead of helping me, or being there for me. I need to let go.

  480.  #480Tam on June 13, 2012 at 6:54 am

    …well, no he didn’t poof, he is in the friend zone and thinks that’s ok. Well, it isn’t.

  481.  #481Heart on June 13, 2012 at 6:55 am

    # 471 FW – What sounds like a symptom of fear of intimacy? What should I stop? (*Hanging on your every word btw* lol )