About Grief, Misery, And Feeling “Low”

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womaneyesinwaterThere’s NO way to prevent, stop, or compromise your feelings – and you don’t want to.

No matter how unpleasant they are  – or “might be.”

If you can use your conscious, mindful attention to stay aware of what’s going on inside you and around you, and then use whatever “idea” you can plant into your mind about the wonderfulness of “loving what is” instead of resisting whatever’s showing up as “real” – everything will get better.

The added suffering we lay over painful situations and feelings will disappear – and you’ll be amazed at just how much that relieves.

Emotional pain (and physical pain, much of the time, too) is always magnified by our resistance to it.

Feeling “down,” or “low” – or even “high” or “good” is a perception. An extra, added interpretation of things.

So, instead of “calling” what’s going on something –  instead of “naming” it – get yourself focused on the feeling: feeling tired, feeling…anything….and then “fall in love” with that feeling!

“Feeling Low” is a concept, a judgment. It won’t help you go anywhere else – until you fall in love with that concept of “lowness”!

Sometimes grief just grabs you and holds on, and you have a lot of crying, and some joy in between, perhaps, it’s chaos, yes, and still, it’s just one moment in time.

And then the moments keep moving…

I have talked to women who’ve experienced such unimaginable loss. When I first started coaching, I had to work through my own feelings of “unworthiness” just to be in their company.

I felt ill-equipped to coach a woman who’d been through so much, who was experiencing so much grief under such trying circumstances, even though I’ve experienced my own traumas and losses.

And then, I learned to simply surrender to the HONOR of being asked to be of help, and found that I could ONLY be useful to them if I stopped judging myself.

We are ALL so frightened of loss, we instinctively guard ourselves from people around us who are experiencing loss.

And because that’s our instinct – what’s actually happening is that we’re guarding ourselves from OUR feelings about ourselves. We do NOT want to get close to ourselves.

So we judge. We make it even harder than it is. We put ourselves down. We create “lows” even lower than we feel.

We cannot see a way out, a way “up” – a way to another place with another perception of what’s going on in front of us.

We cannot see “reality” but ONE way – and that way is painful.

If you can – think of life as an ongoing event.

Some of us, after experiencing trauma and loss at some point in the “event,” choose to stop, sit in a corner, and fade into the background. To become invisible.

Some of us put a “mask” around our entire selves and continue on – but never really join the event for real. Never really allow it in. Never really allow ourselves to be carried forward by new experience.

We are all, in some ways, holding back the “tides.”

We’re holding back the movement of life. We’re tuning out of the “event” that is life.

And most of us can’t even get our heads around exactly how we’re doing that. How we’re stopping ourselves.

We can’t imagine what it would look like, be like, or what to do to get to what’s outside the perception we have of “the event of life” as it’s happening in this moment.

We are cocooned. We are, in a real sense – blind.

For me – what I want for myself now is to not label what it is “like,” or even “understand” it – but to simply be IN it.

Instead of “rating” my experience – I simply want to embrace it. Whatever it is.

For me, this is the “Holy What Is.”

I do my work to embrace reality – however I perceive it. However “reality” shows up for me. Instead of trying to understand it, I just want to love it.

Let me know how this works for you, too.

Love, Rori





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  1.  #1Linda on December 26, 2013 at 7:50 am

    This post is so timely for me. After I posted at the end of the the preceeding thread I such pressure all the sudden. It is self emposed too. Trying to label, understand, fix, move thru seems a daunting high pressure situation.

    It feels easier , kinder, more self loving to give my self permission to just be in moments. To give myself permission to change my mind, to not be able to make a decision right away or ever if that be the case. For the decisions I have made that dont feel right or have not turned out to be what I want… I am taking the self imposed feeling of “being a failure”.. “dumb” “messed up”….I am going to turn it around and look at it as an exploration on my journey. It as not a royal flub.. just a blip, a well explored discovery what I can say did not work for me . I am giving myself permission to not always do, say, the right thing. Giving myself permission to mess up and still love me and love what is.

    How freeing …. 🙂

  2.  #2Rachel on December 26, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This post helped me feel so much better. Since my recent breakup, I’ve been feeling lost. I kept telling my friends how much I miss the connection, or miss feeling understood by him. Or how much I just miss him.

    What I realized after reading your post is that since we decided to take a break… that I’ve disconnected from ‘myself’. I’ve actually been feeling ‘numb’ and shutdown – which sort of surprised me when I finally felt it. I had stopped allowing myself to really feel. So, instead… I kept pushing it on him, the relationship, the connection, etc. But what I’ve really been missing is feeling connected to myself.

    Now that I’m starting to connect with my ‘feelings’ again… I’m feeling hopeful and optimistic again.

    Thank you, Rori. I feel very grateful to you…


  3.  #3Radlove on December 26, 2013 at 9:44 am


    As usual, you are right on! I find it increasingly more automatic to be in the moment, and I think a big part of that is that I’ve become so second natured about processing feelings as they roll in that I just start processing even when it is something I used to block out.

    For example, my car broke down bigtime about a week ago. I knew it was a biggie: it wouldn’t start, and it made an ugly squealing noise when I tried to turn over the engine. That was about 10 am, and I did tune it out about 2 hours. It took me those two hours to process.

  4.  #4Radlove on December 26, 2013 at 10:10 am

    I had an important phone call and had to stop. So the way it worked out was my car had to be towed and it was nearly $1000 USD to get it fixed. A two hour transition time to deal with the “trauma” of a huge problem, and then I was able to kick into high gear emotionally to do what I needed to do to first try to get it started, then to arrange rides to work, towing, and repair.

    Of course relationships are more challenging to gulp through the “traumas”, and that is going more easily, too, after 4.5 years of working Rori’s tools. Christmas Eve has become a very emotional time for me because 5 years ago is when R started dating me. Each year, I have high hopes that he will propose.

    This year, I felt down about 2 days before, and now it is 2 days after, and I still feel down, but I am bouncing back quickly.

    The good part is that he looked me up and came over Christmas Eve, which was the best part of Christmas to me, even tho all he did was “hang out” as he words it. It is so strange, how that relationship has developed. The past trauma is all but gone, and in its place, after years of discussing it with him and processing it within myself and with all of you, is this gentle, beautiful friendship.

    I still want to marry him, but it still felt good for him to come over, take a nap with me, not one time touching me, and just lay in bed and talk. Weird, I know. But that’s where he’s at, and I have tried to distance myself in the name of romance or nothing at all. But I am so deeply attached to him that I just keep sliding back into the friendship.

    We were together from 7:30 pm to 5:30 am, ending our annual date with a quiet meal at an empty diner, the same diner we have had tens of dates at. After we parted, I texted, “Another Old Lang Syne…” and “I love you.” He texted back, “I lov ya, 2!”

  5.  #5Radlove on December 26, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Merry Christmas, Sirens, Sisters, and Sweethearts!

    I love you all, and I miss being here on a daily basis. A huge amount of my inner healing and relational skills was processed and developed here, in the beautiful pages of Rori’s blog!

    I will stop in when I can, but life has taken off because I am working full time as a document coordinator at a medical device company while taking care of my 81 year old Mom at home. I love it here! B

  6.  #6Lisa on December 26, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I love this post….. and totally have had those experiences as well….. however, for me in my own inquiry, understanding is part of turning it around… and letting it go, and that still includes loving it and being in it! but that is just my work with TheWork….


    I’m just really getting and really owning what Tony Robbins says about “depression being selfish and all about you” I get it! I also know that I have snapped out of the deepest of depression just by deciding to do so…

    Me depressed b/c I haven’t found a long term partner… is just about that one thing in life that just isn’t the way I want it to be…. and therefore, depressing my whole life ( even in just small ways) I also am seeing how that one thing… can cause a man to have power over me/us and make it all about HIM!!!!

    I see the little things I do to sabotage and to also create a situation where it is about “him”…

    Men are so astute when it comes to sensing fear, insecurity…. they are hunters and I suppose they are more able to pick up on these things …. and I’m seeing that more…

    so being vulnerable and open about it and still being strong on the inside…. wouldn’t make it a secret any longer….

    like for me…. I love my breasts… I do, I think they are great! Size wise -when they were much larger, they didn’t look right on me… I couldn’t get used to having them that big and they were in the way….. so the size I have now works great for me… and I like the way they look… HOWEVER, I’m only insecure about them b/c of society… and men ( wanting larger ones)…

    so, a man might sense that insecurity and misinterpret it… I can see that… and it is my job to let go of what society says, what the majority of men ( think they want) and totally love them even if society and men don’t…. that way, I can be secure in it…. totally!!! and then have NO fear of meeting a man that isn’t happy with them… like I am…

    society plays on our minds… about size, shape, weight, looks, etc… and it’s all BS cuz really all that matters is whats on the inside… that is where the true treasure is…

    just sayin… thinking outloud


  7.  #7Indigo on December 26, 2013 at 10:57 am

    Lisa 🙂

    I think the day I let go of society’s idea of beauty was the day I realized that my idea of beauty was nothing like society’s or the media’s. And I thought, if I have such a different perception of beauty, there must be others who have different perceptions as well… I really believe that for every look, there is someone who finds that beautiful. And that someone needs to start with ourselves. I used to wish I had long legs – it’s not that I don’t any more, it’s just that I cherish who I am so much that I wouldn’t change a single thing about me. It’s a nice place to be 🙂

  8.  #8Lisa on December 26, 2013 at 11:07 am

    @Indigo #7 I agree! I love my body and feel fortunate in so many ways to have the one I was born with!!!… and love my breasts!!… and still need to let go of the splinter in there about what society thinks,, men think… you are correct!



  9.  #9Cris on December 26, 2013 at 11:54 am

    So true!! It is my purpose… feeling my feelings but if they are bad, not feeding them

  10.  #10angela on December 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Thank you Rori. I really needed this reminder today.

  11.  #11BlueRedLove on December 26, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Ugh. I am in a bad place. I haven’t had the urge to call a guy, text a guy because I was feeling frantic, lost, confused etc. in a very, very, very long time. But, I feel it now. That’s why I came to the blog today. I dated guys last week. I dated myself this week (movies, dinner, dress up, etc.) plus I stayed busy with family.

    Yet, I am dying to contact him to give him my speech and be done with him. (He disappeared for the days leading up to the holidays, reappeared yesterday). Yes, yes, I know, no closure. That’s not really what I am seeking, I just want to be heard, then I want to march off into the sunset and cut him out of my life. Maybe that’s one in the same.

    I want to say, “I love you. I feel most alive when I am with you, but I don’t want to date someone who is building a life with someone else. I don’t want to love someone in secret.”

    And no, he’s not married. He’s just got a girlfriend. Ugh. This sucks. I feel impatient and duped and stupid and tired. Mostly, I feel tired and I haven’t done anything. I’ve never called first, texted first, asked him out, paid, driven to him, cooked him dinner, fixed his plate. I did nothing, nada, zilch, but lean back and be open. I circular dated. I shared my feelings, yet I still feel exhausted.

  12.  #12Amber on December 26, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Happy Thursday Sirens!
    This topic really struck me, as I have been feeling generally “low” for the last few months
    I had a therapy appointment today and I think this lady will really help me with the wall I put up to protect myself from intimacy. I feels like a very positive step so far.

  13.  #13Luzydel on December 26, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    From all the things Rori has teach me, being in touch with my feelings have been the most difficult one, but the most worthy. I am learning to be honest about what and how I feel. Not only to myself, but others. I own it! I say it! I feel ___! what ever it is I feel I go deep within and I feel it. Telling the truth start with owning how I feel; and just feel it.

    That was my 2013 new year’s promise/commitment to myself. To own my feelings!

  14.  #14Dominique on December 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Lisa – 6, 8 – I’m not so sure society thinks what you might think it does. The media pushes ideals on us, men and women. And it messes with our heads. I’m not so sure that it’s more a problem for women. Men have this too though somewhat in different areas.

    A man loves a woman because he does. And it has nothing to with how she looks, including the size or shape of her breasts. It’s an isness. He just loves her, and because he loves her, she will look beautiful to him.

    Most men just love breasts, all sizes and shapes, and the ones attached to his woman are the ones he loves best.


  15.  #15Amber on December 26, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I want a “like” button for posts like this one!
    Thank you!

  16.  #16prplpsn28 on December 26, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Hello everyone! My 2 daughters and myself received a mini get-away from Santa. So we arrived today and will be here thru Sunday. Swimming, sledding, ice skating, and outdoor hot tubs. Much needed. Had an awesome christmas with family and H. H gave me and my daughters very thoughtful gifts. I constantly find myself overthinking when it comes to H. Using this get-away to bring myself back to me and spend time with my daughters. It’s so difficult for me to choose trust and pay attention to the actions. Ugh

  17.  #17Amber on December 26, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Corin-120-on the last thread
    My holiday was much, much better than I anticipated, too! All those stories I made up in my head about how terrible it was going to be were JUST STORIES!! Yay for us!

  18.  #18Millie on December 26, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    This is timely because I actually am “feeling low.” The past few days have been full of energy with the holidays and shopping. This holiday felt really good, I realized how in last years I allowed a cloud of sadness and lack to hover above the holidays. But this year I felt truly happy.

    Last night I went to a gathering of friends. Mechanic has been talking to me and he was there. Gave me two huge hugs and was very friendly. I feel whatever awkwardness there was between us had passed and that he does want to be friends and enjoys my company. On the other hand I got rather drunk and another guy who I just met frustrated me, why I don’t remember but I poured my drink on him since he upset me. Of course this made him furious and he called me a bit*h. I felt horrible. I thought he would laugh it off, but he was seriously mad and I felt super embarrassed. I cleaned it up and thought it best to leave, but as I was driving I thought..this is stupid. So I went back and apologized and all was well it seemed. Today I just feel self-conscious. I feel like people are talking about me, talking bad behind my back, I hate feeling like people think I’m dumb or that I’m drama. I feel pathetic saying this but I want social acceptance and I want to be liked. What this guy thinks of me or what anyone else thinks of me shouldn’t matter, but it does to me.

  19.  #19R.N.AmazingMe on December 26, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    I have been in my own head this holiday. I am actually just bored and finding ways to keep busy. I am relaxing and enjoying family time. I would be lying if i said romantically i am lonely. This is ok though because i am just learning how to feel it

  20.  #20Indigo on December 26, 2013 at 9:02 pm


  21.  #21Indigo on December 26, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    That sounds like so much fun Purple! Enjoy 🙂

  22.  #22Emerson on December 26, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Feeling low
    Feeling sad
    No I usually skip right to panicked …
    Fear, panic and sadness all wrapped up.

    I love my rejection feelings

    I feel numb alot too

    I used to feel so hopeful and magical
    Now I feel a pulling in my chest
    I feel different partly because of deaths in my family and partly due to disappointment in myself

  23.  #23Emerson on December 26, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Sorry for the dark post
    I do have days that I feel good but there is no sparkle
    I lost my spark

  24.  #24Emerson on December 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    Hi RN amazing

  25.  #25Amber on December 26, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Talked to (T) tonight on the advice of my therapist. Turns out I’d been reading all kinds of negative things into a comment he made when we broke up that he doesn’t even remember. He thoroughly apologized for making me feel bad. He loves me, but he is not ready for a relationship and I finally believe him. I think we might be friends, when I stop pining over him. Notice I say “when” and not “if”. Healing is coming to me slowly. I am dating again, and although I can’t say I’m enjoying it yet, I am at least not hating it. Cheers, Sirens!

  26.  #26Corin on December 27, 2013 at 3:56 am

    Amber, yay, isn’t it great when that happens! I looked round at my family who I don’t see often and I just saw how much they love me. It felt so good to be able to see it.

  27.  #27Corin on December 27, 2013 at 3:58 am

    I’m finding myself going back into my head and plotting how I can convince my ex to marry me and/or have children with me. It feels so bad to do that. This was what I was doing for the whole last year of our relationship and now we are broken up I’m still doing it! What feelings am I avoiding by focussing on him? Fear, loneliness, sadness. I love those feelings. I will take care of those feelings and sink into them with some tears if I choose.

  28.  #28Corin on December 27, 2013 at 4:19 am

    Emerson, sending you love. When I read your posts I always get a sense that you may be your own worst critic. “Disappointment in myself really brought that home to me”.

  29.  #29Tereana on December 27, 2013 at 7:06 am

    Lisa – it’s so awesome that you love your breasts!!! I love mine, too. And they are not huge, although I’ve had some guys say that they were “huge,” but they are really about in the middle – not giant, not tiny. As a little girl, I always wanted big breasts. I’m super happy with the ones I’ve got. And look at models! Most of them have tiny, tiny breasts (mostly because they don’t have enough body fat to make bigger ones). And I love what Dominique said – men love the breasts attached to the woman they love.

    But I have a question: you said something about “when they were bigger.” Did you have breast reduction surgery? Or did you have kids and therefore have temporarily larger breasts? I’m curious what you meant.

    And do you feel self-conscious of loving your breasts – like do you perceive that society demands that you feel insecure about them and so you feel insecure about feeling secure? I’m just trying to get under the point of what you wrote. Lol

    Let’s all <3 our own breasts today!! (In solidarity of course ; )

  30.  #30Tereana on December 27, 2013 at 7:08 am

    Aw, Emerson… May a tiny bolt of gentle lightning make you feel like you’ve got your sparkle back…

  31.  #31Tereana on December 27, 2013 at 7:17 am

    All right. So here’s the best part about my Christmas: spending time with my brother.

    As kids, my sister dominated my brother – as in dominating his time and basically using him as a commodity and a weapon to tear me down emotionally, isolate me, ridicule me, and also to prevent me from having a relationship with my brother. All of the above worked, except for one thing: he’s still my brother. Nothing that she could do could ever make him NOT my brother.

    And, spending time with him just for these last few days has made me realize how much I’ve MISSED him. Like, really missed him. Like missed him my whole life, since I was about eight years old. Our personalities are really similar. We have similar but different tastes. We have had similar experiences with our parents, and so we can relate, even though hardly anyone outside the family could ever understand.

    He’s like a missing piece that I didn’t know I was missing. I feel a bit misty-eyed just thinking about it.

    I love my brother. I’ve always loved him since the day he was born. It was really mean and cruel of my sister to Di what she did. But I made my mind up at the time that I didn’t want to “fight” over a person. I didn’t want to “win” that game. I wanted to have a brother, a sister, a family.

    I know a friend who lost her big brother about 5 years ago. She misses him dearly.

    I figure the best thing that I could do, for anyone who has lost a brother, is to cherish the relationship that I have with him now. It’s worth so much.

  32.  #32Tereana on December 27, 2013 at 7:34 am

    Even though I know it’s not all that productive, I keep writing letters to Lakeman in my head.

    Only one of then I’ve written down and I’m going to delete it. I’m glad I haven’t sent any of them. Not because of “leaning forward,” although that’s part of it. Mainly because I am noticing how what I feel and how I want to express it is shifting ALL the time. If I were to write something down and send it, that would be a snapshot of how I feel in that particular moment. It would not be a dynamic, living, breathing, three-dimensional representation of who I am, although I might like it to be. Words are powerful. What I say matters.

    In fact, that’s one of the things I want to communicate to him. But I’m taking it to heart: what I say matters, what I feel matters, what I do and what I decide matters.

    This feels very different than a sense of being isolated and unimportant/invisible. I want to say it again, so I can hear it: what I say matters.

    I need to hear that right now.

    What I feel matters, what I do matters.

    I am not an island.

    I feel amused thinking about: he might contact me on his own some time. “They always come back,” says marni Batista. “Leave them alone and they’ll come home, wagging their tails behind them,” says Little Bo Peep.

    Meanwhile, I keep writing letters to him in my head, because every time I do, I end up learning something about MYSELF: how afraid/averse to commitment I am, even though I want it; the fact that my head, heart and body cannot always agree on what to want at every given moment; my conflicting feelings for him – love versus resentment and anger – are representative of conflicting feelings I have about MYSELF and my life. And wealth: do I truly want wealth, or do I want a simple way of life that doesn’t include a lot of money but that contains the struggle for more that makes it feel like I am “doing something.”

    I worry: if I had money, would I become lazy? Would I relax and “rest on my laurels”? Would I lose my “edge”? Or worse: would I feel as miserable as I do now, only with more money to buy things? I will have to admit, as much as I hate worrying about money, part of me doesn’t want to find out the answer to that question

  33.  #33Linda on December 27, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Drama filled relationships feel BAD. I know we can ‘t avoid drama and I am not looking for perfect but mostly smooth would feel wonderful. For me after a pattern of things flaring up over and over ,(different subjects).. I have just become numb to them and disinterested in the relationship all together.

    THere has been some major growth in me. I used to panic..wanting to fix things immediately, save the relationship…. A mans mood used to trigger that response too.

    Today… I truly believe I deserve better and wont settle for bad treatment. I faked it till I made it ! If a man/someone was ignoring me I would be a hot mess until it was resolved. Especially someone who said they loved me. I feel more confident and stable in myself and not piney about any of this. I do feel sad about it not working no matter which way it was worked at by both of us….A man falling into refusing to talk to me after a year of relationship and loads bad behavior and several chances granted to them at their request to do better… feels so adolesent and such a turn off. How is silence productive?? It just drives home that this person and the relationship is not a safe place for me and does not feel like anything I can make a whole hearted commitment to. (which he wanted).

    I am embracing my journey and the potholes and pitfalls and the victories.

    Why would anyone pine after that ? Being alone feels better than being ignored. I am so thankful for personal growth and the new awarness that has come to me thru this community.

  34.  #34Femininewoman on December 27, 2013 at 8:30 am

    RE 27 Oh Corin. I feel so wonderful reading about you plotting your life. It reads to me like the dreams of a little girl planning her happily ever after. The way I see it is like maybe you just need to tweak the script in your head a little bit. “How can I create the wonderful life with a great man and the kind of relationship where I feel…………..”.

  35.  #35Corin on December 27, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Thanks FW! My therapist has suggested I write a script of how I want my life to be so I know what I want and don’t just live out my parent’s patterns.

  36.  #36Shannon on December 27, 2013 at 11:25 am

    I definitely feel like I don’t know what this would look like. I don’t know how to do this.

    I’ve got so much pain going on for me right now. I’m probably going to be homeless soon because I’m just not willing to live here with him anymore. That means I can’t take my daughter with me (and I don’t want to).

    I’m going to lose my daughter for all intents and purposes. But I don’t want to be a single mother and work 16 hour days so I can still not afford my daughter’s child care costs. I’d never see her anyway… and at least if she stays here with him, she’ll have one parent around her in the evening.

    I don’t know how to feel anything but horrible loss and pain, and I just don’t want to feel that. I just don’t. Yes, I’m resisting it, because pain hurts. It hurts! I don’t know how feeling love for pain would look. Especially not right now when it’s so raw and huge.

  37.  #37Linda on December 27, 2013 at 11:35 am

    omGOSH…Shannon… I feel so badly for you. sending you a hugs and warm hopes.

  38.  #38Corin on December 27, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Shannon, thinking of you and your pain. Sending love. You sound very courageous to leave if that’s a step towards better treatment even if it means having to leave your daughter.

  39.  #39Rori Raye on December 27, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Shannon, What’s going on with you? From this one post, if this were me, I’d do everything possible (including staying in the house with an ogre if there were a roof over my head, a chance to buy some time to find work I like that pays decently, and keep access to my child) rather than leave without her under almost all circumstances. Which just tells me I know nothing of your circumstances, and am just talking and thinking “through my hat”!

    Homeless, to me, is not an option here. Can you hammer out your options, and find something outside of the box? Perhaps a job that pays enough for you to save up some money while you live with this man – perhaps sleep in the living room if you can’t send HIM out to the couch? I know I must sound cliché and ignorant of your situation, and I am. Help us help you? (I’ve read through many of your comments and can’t find the info to help you better….)

  40.  #40Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    @Tereana I haven’t had breast reduction surgery no…. I had larger breasts after my first child but then got a horrible stomach virus that I was sooo sick from that I lost down to 89 lbs… and there went my breasts… they didn’t come back…. at that point in my life, I was very self conscious about them…

    after my second child 17 yrs later, I had D cup w ay way too big for tiny me…. and then after breast feeding I went to a C… then once I started working out and all they got smaller, which is fine… b/c I’m very active and I really missed my smaller breasts…

    and yes, I used to model some… but I’m not anorexic and 5’9″ I’m 5’2.

    So, I’m self conscious about the fact that men and society think women aren’t attractive without larger breasts… and I think I look great with the size I have… small… they fit my body size…

    for the most part when I take my clothes off with a man for the first time, I’m very secure! Very! I have a great body and I’m proud of it…

    as the relationships progress though I can tell they wish they were larger, more to play with…. and with “M” he was obvious about it… I called him on it, and he said but the important part here is “your breasts are natural” I don’t like implants… OK then why bring it up at all!

    If a man’s penis is not big enough ( which has been the case a couple of times) I just leave, I don’t bring it to his attention… and here is the issue – it isn’t a social thing with me about size… it isn’t about looks, or status…. for me size is about fitting… for me… I went to therapy about this …. and just had to realize that one size doesn’t fit all… for me…

    My point is…. that it’s about not adhering to what society has taught us… I don’t feel self conscious until I’m given reason to… or I notice that he stops playing with mine… or I notice innuendos…

    Thanks for asking and I look forward to the man that loves my breasts as much as I do! b/c they fit me!



  41.  #41Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 1:56 pm


    I don’t know your whole situation but I can relate! Here is my story:

    I had that situation come up with my youngest father who has AS and is very passive aggressive and narcissistic… ( please no comments about labels he has been diagnosed) I at one point thought if I didn’t leave I’d end up killing myself…and I thought about suicide. I couldn’t take the emotional abuse anymore…it was the worst he$ll, at one point I’d convinced myself that she would be better off too!

    I found a therapist… then I started to vent and release and started to realize that she wouldn’t be better off without her mother and I was already sleeping elsewhere in the house… but! I started taking care of me and working on a solution. I knew that if I left her with him that the state would consider that abandonment and that would effect my chances in the future… I had to hang on with every little thread I had!!! I don’t think I’d ever been that low in my life…( that is saying a lot) I started doing TheWork and it helped…. it took time, but things shifted and solutions came… ( he was diagnosed with AS and I realized it wasn’t me) and now he sees her 2 days a week, I have her the rest… and I’m soooooo glad that I didn’t leave… but this is just my story, please don’t take it as advice … take what feels right and leave the rest…

    My thoughts are with you! Sending you love! I trust that your heart will guide you… Take care of you!


  42.  #42Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    I need help

    In comes “J” a new “J”… the natural foods guy that has been devleoping for awhile now…

    Ok so today he said I hope to see you before the holiday.. he’d ask if I have plans, I said no…. he said me either… he said it’s always good to see you…. I get shy… I start off my confident and secure woman but as soon as he looks me into the eyes and says things like this I get shy… NOW I know that can be a turn on for some men… but the problem is I can’t get anything out of my mouth! I litterly can’t speak… I get all jello

    So, is it leaning forward to go to the store now often in hopes of seeing him before the holiday? I kind of leaned forward today by going in his line at checkout… but then I softened up… and was all feminine and soft… I kind of think by now he wants to ask me out…. but he is working and I don’t know how much he can do while I’m checking out…

    O Please help! I love this mushy feeling I feel around him, I feel all feminine and soft… I can tell he is very masculine and omg it is such a turn on! I cant’ stop smiling when I’m there.. heck I’m still smiling….

    “D” is talking about driving down to see me…. but he seems to want me to lean in a bit… and that feels odd… but he has ask me point blank.. do you want me to come down next week, I said yes!


  43.  #43Luzydel on December 27, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Spent time with cuteCD today 🙂 it felt so sweet and comforting. I am going to miss him while he is away 🙁

    I feel so accepted by him, Compared to captainCD and SfCD who constantly tried to make me wrong and change me. Maybe I am at a different place and can appreciate a man more or simply our personalities are more compatible… I like Cding at my own pace one man at a time.

  44.  #44Cris on December 27, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    @Shannon I hope you will find serenity and think about a solution that allows you to remain with your daughter. I really can’t imagine a worst pain for a mother than being apart from her children. Thinking of you… My <3 is with you

  45.  #45Shannon on December 27, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    I’m an unskilled person. I have no training in anything, pretty much. Our daughter has a medical condition that means she requires qualified child care. I have explored the options with a local agency, and I cannot afford to have her. He can. If I take her, I’ll have to work 16 hour days ONLY to afford her child care (which is without considering rent or food/utilities!)…. and then she’ll have NO parent with her, ever, except at night…. sleeping the sleep of the physically and emotionally exhausted.

    And I can’t handle staying here for multiple reasons. I am sleeping on the sofa and I have scoliosis. My back is starting to fail. If I don’t leave to somewhere with an actual bed, the chances are pretty good that there will come a morning very soon that I won’t be able to get out of the sofa except on a stretcher (I may be too late).

    I’ve told him I don’t want to sleep there and that I am feeling continual, terrible pain. I can’t stand it. The pain gets worse every day.

    He won’t have anything to do with either of us. He goes to his room and refuses to come out for anything at any time. If I don’t go to him, there’s nothing, ever.

    Getting a job is pointless. I’ll have to pay child care… so all I’ll be doing is working to pay someone else to take care of her. That’s it… there won’t be money left to ‘save’.

  46.  #46Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    @Shannon I’m not meaning to be crude or prying…. but if he ignores her now how can you know that he will take care of her if you leave? I’m sorry to ask such a blunt question. I’m just concerned for her and you.

    My ex did and still does that… he has AS… which means he is in his own world and has to have lots of alone time. He doesn’t know that it is being self centered and ignoring people-he just thinks he is getting his needs met. I totally know how that feels awful!… I’m sorry!!!

    I have scoliosis too! I know …. it’s hard!

    Be good to yourself! <3 {{{{hugs}}}}


  47.  #47Shannon on December 27, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Because he takes care of her when I’m not there. The only reason he ignores her is because he knows that I’ll take care of everything.

    He always steps up for her if I’m not around.

  48.  #48Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    @Shannon I do hope you find peace and a solution! Good to know that he takes care of her…. My heart goes out to you! It really does! {{hugs}} sending you love and warmth! <3


  49.  #49Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    @Tereana I’m so happy to hear that about your brother! I can relate… and I’m so happy you still have him cherish that time….

    Mine left the world at a young age… I feel happy to hear that you have this chance with him! It makes me feel so warm…. <3 thanks for sharing!!!


  50.  #50Lisa on December 27, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    @Emerson {{{hugs}}} sending you love! and light! <3

    @Amber that is wonderful!!! <3

  51.  #51Femininewoman on December 27, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Shannon I hope you have a mother that you can turn to.

  52.  #52Shannon on December 27, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    My mother died when I was 6. I was a state ward. I’m not sure what the point was of that. If I go to work and work enough to afford child care for my daughter, she won’t have a mother, either. But she’ll have a very nice “child care provider”, I’m sure.

  53.  #53Indigo on December 27, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Lisa 46,

    “he is in his own world and has to have lots of alone time. He doesn’t know that it is being self centered and ignoring people-he just thinks he is getting his needs met.”

    That is exactly how D was. Couldn’t comprehend it from someone else’s point of view.

  54.  #54Indigo on December 27, 2013 at 9:48 pm


    I know things sound bad with your child’s father, but if it were me I would, with my heart in my throat, go and discuss it with him what solutions he can think of. Even if he is unpleasant about it, it seems you need someone else to carry this burden with you.


  55.  #55Tereana on December 27, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Hm… Heard from another long time “cd” today. He did his usual thing – started off all friendly. Then asked if I was still single. Then when I said yes, it started to get all about sex. Of course I told him that I moved across the country. So what did he suggest? That when I come back to visit, if I’m still single, we can “do it like crazy.” Only it was more vulgar than that. Sheesh. To use a good word I heard today, what a bozo. I’ve met him in person once. Not a chance I am going to go see him and do that. He’s never even taken me on a proper date.

    I will give him this: at least he doesn’t mince words or beat around the bush (so to speak – ahem).

    But still, I told him a flat-out No.

    I really admire guys’ ability to just assume the positive answer. Even when it isn’t s positive, they are still going for a change of mind/heart. I wonder, will this guy ever give up?? I think he’s been kind of a jack-@ss to me. I don’t feel like I want to give him anything special.

  56.  #56Indigo on December 27, 2013 at 10:13 pm


    How do you stop feeling messages from sounding like criticism?

    I was with a difficult and rather toxic man and now I am with a sweet man, but because I’m not fully healed from the hurt I’m rather sensitive.

    Anyway, the other day C and I were out on the dam on his boat, but really it was more of an excursion for him and one of his guy friends that I tagged along with. It was lots of fun and they were perfectly sweet to me but I felt like a third wheel. There were no hugs or kisses and I felt more like the little sister who tagged along than the woman. Anyway, after I’d had a drink or two with them I decided to go home. C said he’d get in touch with me when the two of them were finished. By 11:30 pm I still hadn’t heard anything and I was feeling… I don’t know… unimportant. So I sent him a text saying I felt a little disappointed with how the night had turned out and I would have liked to have been touched and kissed a prioritized a bit (the text I think was not a great idea). Then I went to sleep.

    At 2 am I got a phone call from him – he was upset that I was unhappy. He said that this friend of his was one of his best friends whom he only sees once a year (I didn’t know that) and that he can’t handle this level of neediness or maintenance. I was half-asleep but I apologized. He immediately softened and opened up to me. He started pouring his heart out about his previous relationship and about the kind of guy he was. Aside from the fact that I didn’t like the fact that I’d upset him, I was very impressed. Impressed that he phoned me to make things right rather than pulling away (or shutting me out as D would have done) and also that he opened up and I got to learn things about him that I would not have known before.

    He ended the conversation by saying it would be good to see me, so we spent what little remained of the night together.

    Anyway, it did make me think I need to be careful of overthinking things or letting my feelings run away with me, and definitely of sending these texts… It also made me think I’d like to, as Dominique would say, flow with things, and not put expectations on them. That would feel good…

  57.  #57Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 3:40 am

    Shannon the point of the mother comment was just my thought and wish that your situation is not as completely hopeless as the comments seem to make it out to be. When one man is the only hope for a woman unfortunately sometimes the man can feel overwhelmed. If he doesn’t have both feet and his heart in the relationship the possibility exists that he can experience the responsibility as a burden and want to get away. I was hoping that your mother could be a lifeline for you. Unfortunately now I know that is not the case. I feel sad coming to grips with your story and responsible for finding a way to help you fix it. The other thought that crossed my mind was to ask if there is a women’s shelter that would take you and your child? I personally know of a woman who took that route and though she did not have a job she eventually got a regular apartment from the state as well as assistance so that she could feed herself and her child.

  58.  #58Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 3:50 am

    Indigo a text can easily be misinterpreted. Also men have their own triggers based on past experience. What I assume here is that text put you in his mind as the past woman, not the present. Though I would not encourage you to do that again, it created a breakthrough. That was a make or break moment and you both learned more about each other and yourselves. Not bad at all. I see two patterns here. The first one was to send a pouting text. The next is him taking care of your feelings to make his woman happy. I’d suggest that next time this comes up again for you to sink into the feelings instead and ask yourself how can you take care of yourself in the moment. Then when you see him again share the experience with him while letting him know that you just want to share and are not blaming or criticizing him in any way. If you don’t take yourself too seriously you could see it is as silliness and maybe share with him that you feel silly about it. A siren who used to post here, Mel, would be great with scripting something around this. She used to tell her guy about the monkey in here head chattering away.

  59.  #59Lisa on December 28, 2013 at 7:21 am

    “D” called last night…and we laughed so hard… but I felt weird when he went from making a comment about me saying I’m “tiny and petite” to thinking that was a negative to last night saying something about me being pulled out of the boat… Man I don’t know when I’ll start using my feeling messages all the time.. it seems to come and go… I noticed I didn’t say I feel weird… what I did say was… in a laughing way… is this a poke on my weight?

    He has decided not to come down next week for the new year, I’m a little disappointed in that… and but I sensed it… he feels torn between priorities of work and dropping everything to come see me… I did tell him what I needed though… he seemed receptive of that… also I’m just feeling like pulling away b/c really it is all fantasy until he is right here in front of me….

    So he will call me tonight…. and he sends me e-mails at least once a day…

    Ok so no responses on the “J” and the healthfood situation……question?

    @ Indigo I’m happy to hear your “C” seems to be working out… <3


  60.  #60Lisa on December 28, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Oh I almost forgot Dr. Allen has this thing tonight about alpha women…. I think I fit that … her description of it…. well except one doesn’t fit me… I don’t want to get laid and paid…don’t know what that means… but it does ring a bell about pushing men away to gain control….

    I wonder about that actually….. sit with that and hopefully can hear her show after it’s over, since I have plans tonight…


  61.  #61sophie on December 28, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Ha ha Lisa – I don’t know the answer to your question…it could be fun to go or it could feel a bit contrived in your energy…is the motivation wanting some fun on NYE?

    Shannon – I feel so sad hearing your pain – I liked what Indigo said about having some kind of conversation with him to see if he would come up with a solution…it is so painful when a man distances himself that way…that is how I’ve felt with B that he just shuts himself away … there is no lonelier feeling…it feels better to me to actually be alone

    I am still being alone now I feel too angry to return to my house so I’m just hanging out by myself at my parents … I feel afraid about NYE I don’t know what I want to do and I feel scared at the thought of being by myself…i dont know whether i’m going to stay here or return to my house..i’m all in limbo

    and i’m penniless… this is part of the reason I feel so angry…I feel really resentful about the xmas celebrations B has been too (which I wasn’t invited) and NYE too cos I literally have no money – ive just used the last of my credit card to pay the january bills and now i’m out but i’m supposed to be all happy and soft feminine energy…I’m not..I feel tearful and frightened and all of my energy is going into boy mode cos I’m the one who has to sort this mess out…he paid me rent but it is minimal doesn’t even cover the mortgage – i’ve sold pretty much everything I can

    And it is my mess for the most part I can’t blame him but he hasn’t helped make anything any easier for me…not even down to a happy xmas…or coming up with solutions as to what we could do…there is no us really its my problem…it is very much on my shoulders…and I do feel short changed and I do feel angry that he can get out and have some fun and I can’t…I feel like he just gets to have no responsibility really and all the worry falls to me

    I feel I have noone I can turn to and I feel alone…I will be okay I don’t know how but I know that I will be…I just wanted to get out some of the anger I feel cos I have no one who I can share it with

    this is why I don’t want to go home because I know that I’m angry and i dont know what to do about that so if anyone has any suggestions that would be lovely 🙂

  62.  #62sophie on December 28, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Tereana – yuk – I feel like he’s a jackass too – I feel so bored by men who are just looking for cheap thrills…you’re right though I guess I have nothing against them asking at least theyre honest and out there with that 🙂

    Indigo – i’m not very good with making feeling messages not sound like criticisms either – I definitely need to do what FW says about not dealing with everything then and there but making it a ‘no biggie’ at a later date…i find it quite difficult not just wanting it resolved immediately but I guess waiting could definitely soften the vibe…also approaching things in a nice way (which i’m also not very good at) like FW says with starting with ‘its no biggie’ or ‘id just like you to know’ or something that softens the ‘i feel’ I guess…i’m very good at just blurting out how ‘i feel…’ and then the man doesnt really know what to do with it…i think I need to set the context better 🙂

  63.  #63Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I feel just kind of weird today. My grandparents left for Florida with my uncles and I realized I feel stressed about that and I miss them, already. I love my grandparents so much and I really worry about them on the long trip. But it’s what they want to do. Ok.

    I had a charged conversation with my dad, where I realized (again, for the millionth time) that I hate asking for help. I’ll do it only if I feel like the answer will be “yes” because I hate dealing with the rejection. When I ask and someone refuses me, I feel worse than if I had never asked at all. I feel rejected as a person, I feel shame, embarrassment. Worst of all, I feel helpless. Like a small child. The thought, the belief underneath it is, “I can’t do it on my own (that’s why I need your help). If you don’t help me, I might die.” I feel threatened, annihilated, in a deep way. This is a very, very deep wound, clearly, and it keeps coming back up to be healed.

    Today, it was hard, but I had to realize I wasn’t as helpless as I thought. I noticed I was responding to fear, and once I steeped into trust, after gathering some more knowledge and information, I was able to find a simple solution to my problem that made me feel good. It was just tough withy dad, because we BOTH felt triggered.

    And lastly, I wrote a note to Lakeman, whom I will now call “S,” and saved it. I feel good about what I wrote. It needs some editing. And it is still mainly for me. But I am having a new criteria – if I send him anything at all, I am sending it on PAPER. If I wouldn’t feel comfortable writing it with pen and ink, it’s not going down. Plus, this is necessary. He may not be ‘husband’ material, but he is a tactile person & so am I. He’s also older than me. We both need this. Email and text just don’t cut it.

    And I may be looking for “closure,” but what I really want is clarity. If it’s over (and it is) I want us to walk away with clear hearts and minds. Okay, at least I want that for myself. And as long as there is misunderstanding, I don’t feel “clear” and it’s hard to move on into what I really do need.

    I love him. That doesn’t mean I need to be with him. But we both deserve a little respect. And love. He deserves love as much as I do, and he doesn’t deserve it as much as I don’t. Which amounts to the same thing: we deserve love.

    I want to come from that place when I’m writing. I want to come from that place always.

    It is a challenge when I have grown up always living in the edge of the abyss of “I don’t deserve love.” Maybe I can inch back up slowly onto safer ground. It will take time. I want to get up on the solid ground of “I deserve love.” I may need some help to get there. It’s been slow going ony own…

  64.  #64Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Indigo – It sounds like that text went over very well. What is important is not whether your feeling messages constitute criticism or manipulation (they don’t as long as they are true feeling messages), what’s important is his response.

    You’ve noticed, he is a nice guy, not a toxic guy. He responded by making things right and by opening up and then wanting to see you. To me, that sounds just wonderful.

    I feel hopeful reading that. I would like someone to respond to me in the same caring way. And it also throws S’s behavior into perspective: when I am unhappy he pulls away and becomes angry. This makes me feel worse.

    But, instead of labeling him “toxic,” though he might be, I may rather interpret him as sensitive, which to me is more true. It could be both. He is sensitive, with triggers and toxic capacity. His sensitivity could lead him to want to please me, or to pull away. He might have felt threatened by me, too. He may have heard what I said and taken it as criticism. He did, actually. Which means I just need to be careful.

    What I keep wanting to express to him is that what he said mattered to me. But the reverse is also true: what I say matters to him. And that makes the whole process different.

    I often mouth off to people and say whatever (or write whatever) comes up, largely because I feel unimportant. I feel that my words can be thrown away and largely discounted. This comes a lot from my family, and especially my mother, who, even now, I might say something and she will either time me out completely or respond with her own train of thought, unrelated to what I just said. When I speak or express my feelings to her, she generalizes, she minimizes, and/or she changes the subject completely. This has the overall effect of making me feel invisible. Like I am a pretty animal enclosed in a glass casing that no one can really hear through. I can yell and scream at the top of my lungs and others will only see me and feel amused. That is how she reacts: like I am a caged circus animal who is well-trained and sometimes acts out, and every little thing that I do is designed and presented expressly for her approval and enjoyment. If I am good, I get treats. If I am not good, she simply ignores me or walks away. My entire life is devoted to one thing: being “good” so that I can get love. Because love is a “treat” she hands out randomly, according to how she feels. It is not actually connected to anything that I do or say. That’s just what she tells me. The truth is much worse: what I do or say has literally no bearing on whether she (anyone) decides to give me love or not. I AM COMPLETELY POWERLESS. (According to her message and her expert training and mind manipulation, even if it isn’t true, outside of her reality. But to her, she is the ONLY one who has the goods on reality. Anyone who disagrees with her is worse than nothing – they simply don’t exist. Including me. She only likes me so far as I agree with her.)

    There is nothing I can do, except walk away from her (emotionally) and start from scratch. No love, no caretaker, no help, no expectations. I really need to have NOTHING. nothing is the only way I can make this work…I’m going to start with that.

  65.  #65Rori Raye on December 28, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Shannon – Here are some logistical ideas to buy you a few months:
    Go to some store, get $100 somehow, and get a blow up Aero-bed. It’s good for the back, and will solve “where you sleep. You can also get a small, cheap piece of foam and put it on the floor. Now roll up towels for under the lumbar part of your back, and between your legs, and you won’t harm your back, and can roll it all up in the morning.

    Now find a way to work “virtually.” Or part-time. Take a class in typing or computer. Get some ideas of something you can do, some job you can get that might lead to something better – from “temp” receptionist to “Social Media Coordinator.” Find some work you can do from anywhere, virtually, just to buy your own “sundries.” Go to facebook and offer your services.

    Now think about how you can “share” custody – where you have your daughter during the times you’re available. You work when she’s with her father or at day-care or with a caregiver – and spend time with her when you can – either at her father’s home, or your rented room.

    This is a process, Shannon. Not saying it’s fun. AND EVERYTHING is one step at a time. Start thinking, considering, working it out, Number one is finding how to sleep well in his living room, and make him a friend if nothing else.

    You could work it out so YOU are your daughter’s caregiver some of the time – a financial win-win for him as well. You are rightly putting your daughter first. Now fine tune those ideas.

    Love, Rori

  66.  #66Dominique on December 28, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Indigo – 56 – I feel SO proud of you. The text may not have been a great idea, yet look at the wonderful stuff which came out of it. You were authentic, and look what happened.

    Love to you.


  67.  #67Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 12:20 pm


  68.  #68Lisa on December 28, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    @Sophie #61 well maybe but I do go to this store many times a week and it has been known that some days, I end up going twice in a day… and had really nothing to do with “J”… so I could drop the motivation about NYE and just go there like I normally do… and see what happens…

    thanks for responding!!! <3

    @Shannon not giving advice here… but if your feel inclined… you can check out http://www.thework.org and they have a helpline and can walk you through the 4 questions…that is what brought me to a more peaceful place with my ex during that time… Just my thoughts… <3

    also there is a site called "Wish upon a Hero" and you can put your wish down and people do grant them…. {{hugs}}}


  69.  #69sophie on December 28, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    FW – thank you – it feels funny but a big virtual hug really carries a lot of soothing energy right now 🙂 xx

  70.  #70Kyla on December 28, 2013 at 1:13 pm


    I went through something similar 5 years ago. Things aren’t always as bleak as they seem when we’re in despair. You are a strong, capable woman and will get through this.
    1. Don’t move out until you have everything in place, stay where you are.
    2. Have you sought legal advice? There are free legal aid services in most areas. You and your ex are equally responsible to share your daughters costs. Apply for child support.
    3. Childcare options. Look at maybe off setting the childcare cost in place of you caring for your daughter while your ex is at work and you working shifts when you ex has her?
    4. Have you sought out social assistance? Is there any back to work/school schemes near you? Any assistance with housing? Find out all of your options.
    5. If you don’t have family or friends to talk to reach out to a free support service and talk through all of your options with someone. Its important to talk all this out, please don’t try to carry all of this inside on your own.
    6. Don’t make any rash decisions. Talk through your plans with your ex if you are able to or put them to him in writing if not and ask for his input/suggestions for how you two can work together to make this situation work for your daughter.
    7. Your daughter needs her mother. You must take care of yourself and not let your self esteem erode, you are the most important role model this girl will ever have.

    Keeping you in my thoughts and sending you love. I’m in Toronto, not sure where you are, but if you are in my area I would be happy to help in anyway I can.

  71.  #71Kyla on December 28, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    My mother is the same, it hurts badly and yet logically I know she’s not capable of giving me the love I deserve. I was married to an emotionally abusive man, later physically abusive. He was diagnosed with a personality disorder, he was like her in so many ways and working with the psychologist helped me learn that there is nothing you can do to help these people, they are truly incurable. Some women marry their father and I married my mother! I still have a lot of hurts in this area. One thing that helps me is to see her as a small child.. one that was never able to grow up and learn to love.. but just a little girl that really doesn’t know any better.. then I can see her with compassion as who she really is without expecting anything from her. She wasn’t the mother I deserved but she wasn’t capable of being one either. She can’t hurt me unless I expect love from her, love I know isn’t there.

  72.  #72Lisa on December 28, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    @Sophie here is another virtual {{{{HUG}}}}}

    I’ve been so locked up with emotion today… I’ve barely been productive…. I’m not sleeping well either….

    one minute I’m ok with no plans for NYE and the others I’m sad and crying….

    I feel unwanted ………

    I feel like every year I’m alone at NYE it’s ok! it will be better next year…. it isn’t…

    I feel like the freak of the world… fun, happy, loving and caring… and still a freak… of nature… always have been… felt that way…

    I’m not accepted the way I am…. b/c I’m different… not bad, or mean, or catty…. just me… and that doesn’t seem to be enough… cuz being yourself means you don’t FIT in…

    Just for once I wish the universe would stop teasing me… dangling carrot…. I’m ok with spending it alone, I’ve done it for decades… so it isn’t a fear of being alone, it’s a fear of always being alone… there is a difference.. though “G” called me today and you know what… I didn’t have fun with him, and he was asking me out for NYE but I just don’t want to be doing NYE with someone that I’m unhappy spending time with… I’m not lonely… or desperate… if I was desperate, I could find someone to do NYE with…

    I cannot believe I spent so much time and will be $ that I don’t really have… to get a sitter and now – nothing! I spent a month in advance looking for a sitter and my daughter is all happy about it, and nothing… I guess I can go dancing alone… maybe that is what I need to do…. spend it dancing by myself… at the NYE party…

    I guess I’m ok with that…something I’ve never done before… gone dancing alone… mostly for safety reasons….

    Ok I’m feeling sorry for myself…which is selfish…

    I’m wallowing in my sadness….. if I could just let it go….

    “D” said he was so grateful that he got me for Christmas.. I tend to say to these men awww that is so nice.. and I mean it but I also know it is just words he means right now… and that could change… men tend to say things in the moment…. and they might not mean it later… another words. as Christian Carter says…. they mean it when they say it… so I don’t get too hooked on these newly developed words… b/c there is no action behind them yet…

    is that wrong? or is that wise? I’ve learned to fall in love with their actions… and not their words…

    I feel better now.. just posting and crying… I love me… I’ll be here for me… I want me!


  73.  #73Shannon on December 28, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    So, I went to him this morning and asked to talk to him. I told him that I didn’t want to spend my weekend feeling ignored and like a leper. He started immediately saying that he didn’t want to be with me, he is afraid that it’ll go back to the way it was… etc. I said I didn’t want to talk about it, but he pushed it and then I went back to old habits. I told him I won’t let him just throw money at us and continue to ignore us… that I know he doesn’t want the responsibility. He stormed off.

    I got angry and started to pack to spend the weekend at a hotel, while he went to get our daughter breakfast. When he got back, he said, “I saw you called” (cause I wasn’t going to just leave and not tell him, but I wasn’t going to take my phone), and did I need anything. So I said, “Yes, I did. I feel angry because I told you I didn’t want to talk about that” (Him not wanting to be with me).

    He said he didn’t want me to say what I had to say under the wrong impression, and I was like, “One has nothing to do with the other. I don’t want to feel ostracized and ignored, and I don’t want K to be ignored all day”.

    He was like, ‘well, then, come to the library with us’. I decided to go, since it was an improvement and felt better than going off alone. We watched 2 movies together today, and I did well just focusing on the moment.

    He told me after that he will let me sleep a couple nights in the bed.

    I’m far too afraid to just accept living here. I’m having nightmares of coming home to find the locks changed. Nightmares of having court orders served on me that I can’t see her anymore… it’s like every night. Not that I think that she’d suffer. He would take good care of her if I wasn’t around…. half the problem is that he’s a GREAT dad when he can’t just dump her onto me.

    If I’m alone, I can financially (barely) afford myself, but take her for weeknights or weekends. If I take her, I won’t be able to afford it. The amount of child support he’d have to pay wouldn’t suffice, and his idea of “working it out” is throwing money at us and checking out otherwise. He says the words, but his actions are always to just put money as the panacea to everything.

    I can’t sleep on an air mattress for any more than a night or two (and wouldn’t be able to in the state my back is currently in).

    I’m living in a near-constant state of fear, and physical pain. I just want to curl up and cry for hours… It hasn’t helped so far. 🙁

  74.  #74sophie on December 28, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    ((((Lisa))) Big Hug back to you xxx I was wondering about that – going out alone maybe watch some fireworks or something xxx and then I was wondering about staying in and having candles and doing meditation and I made it feel nice like I could really be loving with myself but in reality I think I’d feel freaked out xxx I admire you that you have stayed in NYE and felt okay about it but I wish you had someone lovely you could share it with too x I KNOW it will happen for you x it’s a funny thing isn’t it not knowing where you fit…i’ve been thinking about that recently…I have such sensitivity to things I know where i’ll feel safe and good but really I have a lot of requirements! I could stay here but my brother and his wife are entertaining their friends…mmm friends from the past with dodgy history and spare part…go to a big party where I know there will be lots of lovely people but its in the sticks and I can’t get home and cos I don’t drink I need to know I can leave when I’m tired…pay a lot of money i dont have to watch a friend samba dance…stay in by myself or try and round up other waifs and strays (possibly there are a few) I feel conscious that I may sound like a moan…I feel grateful for the options I have I just wish I was a little more ‘hell yeah lets party whatever’ and a little less ‘ohhhh i’m not so sure…’ – I live in fear of my own emotions – they pretty much dictate everything 🙁

  75.  #75sophie on December 28, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    (((Lisa))) isn’t it okay to feel our sadness? xx

  76.  #76sophie on December 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    ((((Shannon))) I’m so sorry that you are suffering so much. Your situation sounds very painful and it must feel overwhelming when in physical pain also. There have been some lovely posts from Sirens and Rori who seem to know lots that may help you x I don’t know so much x have you discussed with him the option of you and your daughter moving out? if he gives you money now – would he give you money then? lots of love and strength to you xxx

  77.  #77Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Shannon he doesn’t sound all bad from what you are writing. It might just be your fear that is constant pushing him away. It seems to me that it is your fear that you need to work on. Maybe if you could get a job or some volunteer work in the meantime, where you can focus your attention and your energies things might at least settle a little bit. I understand your fears are very rational and realistic under the circumstances. The problem is that it is not helping. It seems this guy is a good man and want to somewhat do right by you. Maybe he is scared also. I would encourage you to work on your fear so that you could get to a better place internally and emotionally. I believe that would help change what is going on around you.

  78.  #78Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Shannon – “that I know he doesn’t want the responsibility” would make any man, especially a good man get defensive, is what I believe. Men have a core need to take care of what is theirs, especially their family. Never ever criticize the way he takes care of his daughter. Just because he doesn’t want to be with you doesn’t mean he is throwing money at you when he provides financially. At least I hope he does not throw it. It might be just that he is doing the best he knows how to, at the moment.

  79.  #79Tammy on December 28, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    I posted this on an old thread- I wanted to share it because when I framed my thoughts in this way, it helped me let go. I only post it here in hopes that it may help someone else. Xoxo
    Sure, I feel for a man. We both admit that we have an amazing connection. But, it does not matter if he is not willing to be here and stay connected!
    I am a mother of 4 children and my children have taught me this lesson: You absolutely, positively cannot MAKE or WILL someone else to do do what you want them to! You cannot even force a newborn baby to nuzzle at your breast. Sure, you and the baby both know that at the breast there is nourishment, love, comfort, protection, warmth, joy – LIFE! All those things are provided by a lovely, nurturing creature that is only doing so easily, naturally-BEAUTIFULLY what comes from a place of purity. Yet, sometimes the babe refuses! No amount of cajoling will make a difference! The baby will partake of the gifts when he is ready!
    I guess you are basically saying a man is this way too! Well, we women are as well! No amount of convincing from a man can truly make us commit to him now, can it? Sure, there are situations where one may give in and do what the other wants of them. Yet, a choice is made- We are all free moral agents! I am discovering, through these tools, that I really, really, REALLY (I can just see my little girl me just bouncing up and down with excitement in my mind’s eye at the thought of this!) desire to be the beautiful, mysterious, luscious, peaceful woman I am- living that all out in the open and in my heart and mind- just resonating warmth and love. A gift to myself and those I come in contact with. I believe the man will choose me- I will not have to convince him! I will be chosen- that is my choice! I will then feel free to make a choice in whom I give my nurturing (breasts- sorry I could not resist! ) to!

  80.  #80Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    I just had a weirdly sobering thought. I was watching a young-ish couple, looking like they were having fun, enjoying each others’ company, and I wondered – what does “having a boyfriend/lover/partner/life partner” mean, or look like for me. That is to say, not the idea in general, but what it would look like if I were involved.

    And I literally cannot think of one person, man or woman, whom I would want to have in my life every single day. I get annoyed with people. I need my alone time, my quiet time, to be happy. Sometimes I need to be alone for days.

    Much as I am in love with the idea of monogamy and partnership I literally do not know if I can do it.

    I also crave variety – in everything. Does this mean I need more variety in my sex life, too? I’ve never really thought about it. I’ve done it, but not in a controlled way, it just happened. Maybe it’s my natural state, and monogamy amounts to me forcing myself to be something I’m not. Dies that even make sense??? I know a lot about polyamory, but I absolutely hate the idea is being polyamorous! (And I’ve wondered if my fear/distaste is actually an indication that it is something about ME that I feel fear/distaste about). Hm….

    This is all quite serious stuff. And I have no idea what to do with this…

    I know a man that I very nearly hooked up with once, and didn’t because he is poly. And now he is married and with a baby. I still don’t know if he’s continued his poly lifestyle or not. I am wondering, but he hasn’t told me yet. I know that people do it. All the time. People marry and are also polyamorous. Could this be me??? I seriously have no idea. It is quite a sobering thought…

  81.  #81Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Tammy (79) – I really liked that! And your analogy makes total sense. Thank you for sharing! 🙂

  82.  #82Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    And… If I may, I have something I can add to that analogy, and it’s even more specific. Yes, you cannot *make* a baby nuzzle at a breast.

    But there is also a really cool thing you can do (and if poosible, I want to try this when I have babies), where, immediately after the baby is born – immediately. Like make sure it is breathing and everything, and then, instead of wrapping it in a blanket, you place the baby on the mother’s belly. This is even before the placenta and everything. The baby will slowly, ever so slowly, make its way up towards the breasts. It can literally smell them and knows where to go. It may take hours. But if you let it, and don’t move him or her, the baby will get there on its own. And when it does, there is an even better chance of the baby “latching on” than if you wrapped it up and made it try to feed right away. The baby actually needs recovery time from birth.

    So, to follow your analogy, Tammy, the baby (and the man) KNOWS where the nourishment and the good stuff is. It may seem like it takes forever and you really want to move things along, to go at your pace, but if you LET the baby (man) move on its own, then it WILL get there. And all you have to so is BE, and watch, and when it/he does get there, there is an even better chance of “latching on.”

    Eh? You like? You totally made me think of that, Tammy!!

  83.  #83Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Aw, Kyla. ((((Kyla)))) I hate whenever I hear that other women have had a similar experience to me, because I know how awful it is!! I you want, you can join my support group on Facebook!! It’s a “secret group,” but if you look for “narcissistic moms (semi-)anonymous” you might find it. I think you can request an invite. If not, let me know!!

  84.  #84Tereana on December 28, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Lol, I just realized how many double exclamation points unused in that post. I must have been really excited!! ; )

  85.  #85sophie on December 29, 2013 at 12:58 am

    73 – I’m taking this for myself – I definitely need to work on my fear and allowing it to push people away xxx

  86.  #86Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:21 am

    Feminine Woman 58,

    That is what I was talking about 🙂 I definitely will not do that again, but I feel fascinated by how you describe Mel is able to share her feelings without it seeming like criticism. The irony is I actually *know* texts are a bad idea and a bad way to communicate these kinds of things. Thank you. In future, I will look for ways to take care of myself.

  87.  #87Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:26 am


    Thank you 🙂

    As regards J the healthfood store man, I would not do anything out of the ordinary in terms of going there more or less often. I believe men can sense this “effort”. Remember it is his job to pursue you not the other way round. I would go just as often as I normally do and smile sweetly and unzipper my heart and lean back and sigh at every effort he makes to connect with me. Personally if there’s a guy I like and I want to give him a little encouragement without leaning forward, I literally make eye contact for a few seconds and smile really warmly and flutter my eyelashes at him a bit. It works, pretty often 🙂


  88.  #88Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:28 am


    Thanks, you make me feel not so alone with this. I agree FW’s comments were very helpful. Also, I think I need to be sparing with these kinds of “feeling messages” – being that I’d already brought up something like this two weeks before, it was probably not a great idea.

  89.  #89Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:31 am

    Thanks so much Tereana 🙂 and though I don’t know if I would describe it as going down well, I think it actually went down as well as it possibly could have in the circumstances.

    And yes, it is absolutely LOVELY to have a guy who responds by opening up and caring rather than shutting down. Trust me, I had a bellyful of the other. Don’t lose hope 😉


  90.  #90Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:33 am

    Thank you Dominique 🙂

    When he first phoned me, I was like a deer in the headlights thinking “oh my goodness, what have I done.” But when I thought about it afterwards I thought, that is actually pretty beautiful under the circumstances. Not a great idea, yet gave me a great gift.

    Thank you for everything xxx

  91.  #91Indigo on December 29, 2013 at 1:39 am

    Lisa 72,

    Don’t you think you could possibly be putting too much pressure on New Year’s Eve, on this one night? I felt like you for a long time, and it’s been a long time since NYE has lived up to any expectations. But you know what I realized? It’s one night out of the whole year, and it’s not even that special to me anyway, and I have SO many incredible nights during the year. I would love to have a wonderful NYE with a great guy but if it doesn’t happen I’m not willing to diminish the wonderfulness of the other times I’ve had because of it, and I’m willing to be surprised.

    Why not ask yourself what would be the best possible feeling way for you to spend the night, for *you*, and then go do that?

  92.  #92Syreena on December 29, 2013 at 6:34 am

    Hi Shannon. Are you able to get a mattress and put it on floor?
    Are you married?
    What painkillers can you take?
    I was bad with my back for two years.
    Thought that was it and would not ever get better.
    For me it was a combination of right meds and right treatment.
    What works for one doesn’t work for everyone.
    What worked for me was diclofenic suppositories at night and one tablet in day combined with accupunture, soft matress not firm. Hammock was suggested,but would have had to gone to mother and baby unit. Not an option I wanted to take.

    What didn’t work for me was physio, osteo, chiro. Chiro made it worse for me they corrected my spine, so it was straight, it was agony and just went back to being curved anyway. Woeks for some Didn’t me
    Tried them all. And like you working was not a viable option at time. Once my back started to heal, part time work in evening so didn’t have to pay childcare became an option.
    Like Rori says step by step.
    Your first step is finding what relieves your back pain so you can get some sleep and break the pain no sleep more pain no sleep cycle. This will take time. Took two years for me.

    I honestly believed and thought at the time that was it and I would never get better. Our bodies are amazing.
    My aunt had steroid injection for her discs which are very painful and I personally would use only as very last resort. That gave her six months pain relief and have her back time for the healing process.

    It really is a case of reading all the options and research about your back problem and then choosing which ones you want to try.
    Trial and error, until you ind something that works and feels a bit better for you, until it slowly gets better and better.

  93.  #93Syreena on December 29, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Then when you are physically in a better place, you will be able to deal with the other issues, step by step.

  94.  #94Shannon on December 29, 2013 at 10:19 am

    I think maybe I need to explain a little better. It isn’t that my ex is a bad man. He isn’t. But where the problem and the fear is, is that he really likes to punish me. He is passive-aggressive. And the more the punishment, the better; the more painful the better.

    But his methods of punishment are indirect and sharp. Yes, he is a good man, but he sort of decides that once he’s been “wronged”, it’s fine to punish with very serious pain and hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole breakup itself is less about not wanting to be with me and more about wanting to punish me–with the secondary comfort of not having to be with me.

    I understand the concept of The Work, but sometimes you just can’t get yourself past some things. I know perfectly well that the reason I don’t want to take my daughter with me is that I don’t want all of the responsibility dumped onto me. That’s a FACT. I know he doesn’t want the responsibility, either… that’s the problem. The biggest difference is that he WOULD take the responsibility, IF I don’t. But if I don’t take her with me, I’ll get time with her and he’ll be in her life, too. If I do, that’ll be the end of him seeing her except on his “designated days” of which he’ll constantly weasel out of if he stays true to his history.

    And he’d do that to punish me. That’s his “thing”, he likes to hurt and punish me. And yes, I get that I stayed around for that… but it doesn’t feel good and I don’t want it in my life.

  95.  #95Dominique on December 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Lisa – 72 – Big hugs to you. And you know what, a good wallow now and then can feel quite good, so no apologies needed.

    As for feeling like you don’t fit in anywhere, I can SO understand this one. This has been my life. Maybe you’ve seen this expression – You need only find someone whose weirdness matches yours. Not necessarily an east feat, yet not necessarily a difficult one either. As I said the other day, I never thought I would meet someone like K, and I was far from having myself and my life figured out.

    I understand the loneliness so well, and there’s not much else you can do about this aside from what you already are. I think you’re handling things beautifully. And as cliché as this is going to sound, he will show up when it’s your time. My time came later too. Apparently so is yours.

    Sending you much love.


  96.  #96Dominique on December 29, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    I wrote this a few years ago. It might help those of you facing being alone.



  97.  #97Dominique on December 29, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Tereana – 82 – I love this. Beautiful. 🙂


  98.  #98April Rose on December 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm


    Hugs to you. I know exacly how this feels.

    Six months ago I wrote on here how disconnected and helpless I was feeling. The man I lived with did not communicate with me. I knew only the experience of his withdrawal.

    Hard as it was (and because I had nowhere else to go) I agreed to let myself feel the feelings of helplessness in his presence. Yes, it was painful. And no, he did not respond.

    I too thought I was being punished.

    I continued to feel my feelings. Some days were almost unbearably bleak. I wrote on this blog that I had gone out to a party and stayed out overnight, and that he was unaware that I had even gone out!

    It was remarked by ladies on here that, far from rowing the relationship boat, he wasn’t even in the boat.

    I felt frightened, angry, out of control.

    Yet I stayed in the house. And I stayed with myself and my feelings. I began to focus on my contribution to the world, my creativity. I took my attention away from the dynamic between us, and deliberately ‘forgot’ about him.

    I kept myself ‘open’. So that if he suddenly wanted to connect, I was available. I did not punish him in return.

    Most importantly, I let him know I appreciated what he did (if he washed the dishes or made me a cup of tea or anything at all). I smiled at him genuinely.

    Six months on, he has started telling me how much he loves my smile. He is becoming much warmer.

    Also, I have very little money, and I let him know how vulnerable this feels. I also let him know how much I appreciate it when he shops for food or takes me out for lunch. He does this now without question.
    I think it must be an easy way for him to ‘give’ to me.

    So, vulnerability has worked for me. Feeling my feelings has worked for me, and showing appreciation has really worked too.

    Thing was, it was *slow* to happen. It did not happen overnight.
    I stayed with ME, kept working Rori’s tools and listening to the programs, writing on the blog. I had no expectations of him. I thought all was lost.

    Here is my recommended formula:
    “I don’t want to feel disconnected. It makes me happy when we can chat or laugh together” (add big hopeful, happy smile).
    Men love to be with a happy woman. Or one who is learning to make herself happy.

    I want you to be happy, Shannon. For your sake, and your daughter’s. Let her happiness (for example when you tickle her awake) become infectious to you. Sending encouraging hugs and smiles.

  99.  #99Tammy on December 29, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Tereana -82
    I actually considered allowing my third child migrate to my breast and found I was impatient!
    Your analogy is wonderful! Your insight taught me something about myself!
    I have been impatient in so many things! Instead of just BEING and ALLOWING my desires, I have tried to push and force.
    I am seriously having an ah-hah moment!
    Thanks lady!

  100.  #100lost on my journey on December 30, 2013 at 4:57 am

    jeez I really don’t know where to start
    I’ve been married 27 year to a very toxic man I have my good days and bad I’ve gotten to the point where his manipulating me has gotten my 19 year old daughter sticking up for me and yelling at him he has a way of turning everything in me and she notices he has a problem with porn and he cannot ge close enough where I need him to be I’ve never worked in the tears I raised my 4 children I do go out and just ride around by myself I feel loney and I do tell him how I feel he does no recive it calls me names and really I feel like crap I stay int this relationship for what a roof and he get to do what ever he want he treats all of us terrible and yet he thinks he can buy us presents for his time and attention
    I tell him in tired I feel 2 nod class I feel unlove abused and unappreciated . he responses are act like a lady and stop abusing me and trying to control me. he does this thing now so I’ll get mad leave foe the day so he can watch his por for hours how am I to love a man like this or for that fact be turned on ? he says excuse. he has trouble getting up. that’s a lie he’s to use to wacking off to porn because when he doesn’t for a week or too we have sex 2x a day and he’s more attentive and nurtinging to me I don’t now what to do he makes me sick.

  101.  #101lost on my journey on December 30, 2013 at 5:05 am

    not to mention he fights with everybody and when I say not one thing nice comes out of his mouth he knows everything and I’m trapped
    do I stop doing everything I cook clean playbills fix things jump when he need something I feel exhausted and I exercise I recently hurt my back but I’m better now
    I can tell in his eye the stronghold porn has put on out relationship since the beginning now he erases everything and users his phone I have friends a weight watcher I lost a lot of weigh I look great but I deserve better he calls me names and plays the victim . I really don’t have anywhere to go most of the time I don’t want to talk to him.

  102.  #102Rori Raye on December 30, 2013 at 10:16 am

    lost – I’m so sorry you’re finding yourself in this situation, and certainly you know this has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with you. Until you’re ready to get help for why you are in, and still in this situation, it will continue. Change can happen – it’s all up to you. I suggest professional help, and perhaps you can start with free sessions with my Certified Rori Raye coaches (See the listings in the sidebar). Love, Rori

  103.  #103Clare on January 8, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Hi Rory,

    Thank you for sharing this.
    I have been dating a number of men when I went out one night with a friend and let loose, danced and just was in the moment when I saw a guy pass the window of the bar I was in. 40mins later he was passing me in the bar. We looked at each other, danced together momentarily and he grabbed me and kissed me softly before walking off. As the night went on I would notice him look over at me and I would smile and just keep dancing till the end of the night when my friend and I grabbed our coats and left. Minutes later we were walking down the street when our paths crossed and we spoke for the first time and we all ended up going to another bar where he bought my friend and I a drink then after he and I spoke briefly our attraction took over to passion. He wanted to go further but I was visiting the area and my friend so coming back to hers was out and “would be disrespectful”. He was much younger than me and kept asking “where shall we go”. I felt helpless. There was no option and as my friend and I grabbed our coats he disappeared and I saw him outside grab a cab.

    The next day I tried finding him on a social network site and did. I messages him that I had a great time and wanted him to know I understand how difficult it is for a guy not to get release and had there been an option to explore each other further would have. He responded that it was good to meet me too and maybe we will meet up again? I said yes maybe I can come up and book into a hotel if he could recommend somewhere. Then there was nothing. I then let him know I could come up that weekend and he said he was busy all weekend with work. The following week my friend was driving up that way so said I was making this my last attempt to meet. He said he should be free if not put on night shifts and is Saturday good for me? I said perfect. I then messages a few days later to say I had booked a hotel and could cancel up to 2pm Saturday so could he let me know if put on nights. Nothing. We drove up. I messaged ‘on the way. Where did you want to meet?’ Nothing but message was unread. Then I messaged that night where we were and “message me if you are around”. Nothing.

    The next day at 2pm the social network site showed that the messages were read at that time. So I started to blame myself for mentioning a hotel and possibly scaring him off. Confused at the contact then lack thereof. I stayed at the hotel, enjoyed a bubble bath and breakfast in bed and felt good loving myself regardless. But when I had seen that the messages were read and got no response I fell into a grieving process: anger, loss, regret, sadness. I felt an urgency to write to him in anger, or in nice terms or like it never bothered me. But I have not been in contact and each day I wish he was and want to write but don’t. I realised that I had felt a need to contact him a) because I liked him b) because I didn’t want him to think I was insensitive to a guy in the excited state he was in being left to hang. I realised that b) took over: the feeling of responsibility and wanting to show him I wanted him by mentioning the hotel so my focus went to trying to please him.

    I started to lose my sense of self. I blame myself for the “loss” and tell myself you put yourself out there too much but that was what I wanted, to take a risk on someone I was gravitated towards. I have dated many good men of similar values but not one has pulled on my attraction field like this guy. I am trying to be patient with myself by reminding myself of what I have to be grateful for but I imagine him and know he triggered in me my Achilles heel: when I get physical and a man withdraws I blame myself or wonder what I did wrong and when I hear girlfriends say oh you shouldn’t have done that I feel worse even though there were moments when I was in control of what I wanted and gave him the option to do something about meeting me. Others tell me you did what you felt and his loss. Sometimes as I force myself not to revert to contacting him or finding some reason to contact him because I know it’s coming from a place of need, I even convince myself that by not being in touch he may eventually contact me. And then I think and maybe he won’t and I will not see him again, even though part of this is the man and his place in life right? If I am what he wants right now? It’s not all because I chased is it?

    Your article says to experience whatever feeling you feel even loss. I am holding back on feeling the loss of what felt a beautiful mating dance and something I have not felt for years. I am that person who is afraid to love but wants it and it was on this night I decided to be open to life and love and look what happened! I don’t know how to handle this loss despite really not knowing this guy and I may have thought I wanted to keep going with openness and continuing a passionate evening together but I know that I want more than that. I have felt how good it is to be with men with the right values for me, to be treated well even if for only one or two dates but it has strengthened me so I am glad that I didn’t sleep with this guy but I feel loss in his silence. I got my period that day and was glad but he never made an effort to contact me knowing I was in his town which I would normally say well I am not wasting my time if a man doesn’t show the effort to win me.

    My question is less what do I do but is not being in touch the best thing and if I am working against this pattern in me to contact him then how do I remain honest to my feelings that come up so that I learn and grow from this? Say being sad but I fight to be happy whilst forcing myself to ignore a feeling of desperation to contact him?

    Thank you.

  104.  #104Rori Raye on January 9, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Clare!!! WElcome – and you have this ALL WRONG! I know, because I’ve been there myself, and so have most women. It was HIS job to chase YOU down – not your job to chase him down, which you did – and then search for him and find him and message him. WAY, WAY Leaning Forward. PLEASE read the Have The relationship You Want ebook and understand how this works. This is not about him. If he was interested – he would have found you. Feeling a loss of a passionate evening is – I’m so sorry – but the return of “high school” yearnings and all the feelings accompanying that. You can find that easily enough. Circular Dating is STILL the cure. Love, Rori