After 17 Years – He’s Left, He’s Fooling Around, and He’s Put YOU on Trial

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questionmanI love letters with what you and I might call “extreme” situations — where we all gasp and swear we’d never let that happen to us — but we KNOW, deep down, that it COULD happen to us, that we have, and may still be, tolerating things we don’t like and playing “small” when we are, in fact, HUGE goddesses — all of us.

Let’s see how we can use this to help you:

“Dear Rori,
I wanted to share with you the wall I’m up against.

Brief intro:

17 years of Bliss, 3 children, were very happy, we moved and all went pear shaped.

He broke up over email and its been texting and emailing and fighting for 3 years. He comes back, he leaves. He spends more time with us than away.

Recently he has said he loves me and ‘ maybe’ wants to come back. He wants total freedom to come and go as he pleases. Me to ask no questions, For starters we stay in separate houses, and take it slow, he can still flirt and go out with other woman, and if I get upset the that goes against me and him getting back together.

He doesn’t want a jealous wife. I am not to question his behavior or where he goes, if I have a complaint I should tell a girlfriend not him. that will go against me. Over the next few weeks, he will judge me and my behavior and attitude toward him as to whether he thinks he wants to come back to me and his kids…

So I will be on trial – and I will be judged on behavior, attitude. etc. There is no problem with physical attraction, for my age and 3 kids I look great…

He will be flirty and being smutty on facebook etc with other woman and if I complain that will go against me.

Here’s the great bit, If I use – I feel, I felt, I am feeling with him .. that will go against me. If I try to play him with all the junk he says he reads on these web sites. .. so he’s across all of this..

How do I deal with this. i am not good at playing games, and he’s onto all these methods…

What do I do ? No Bliss”

***Here’s my answer:

Basically, No Bliss – What are you DOING???? (This is going to be tough love – don’t read if you don’t want to hear it.)

If you think that by allowing yourself to “be on trial” and wait for him — you’ll get him back, you are dead wrong.

The only way you have a chance of getting this marriage back (and I can’t imagine why you’d WANT to now –there are all kinds of great men out there who’d want you 3 kids and all…) is to put your wedding ring on your right hand, and START DATING. Break up with him. Tell him this is a separation, and so that you will be dating also. Period. If you can’t do this, then, please, get some therapy to help your self-esteem –and get my Targeting Mr. Right program – it will help you date without all the weirdness attached…

AGREE with him. Tell him that you don’t want the marriage at this point while you’re both discovering what it is you really want (this is not a game – this is TRUE for YOU, if you’ll let yourself see this…).

Good luck! You can DO THIS!!!

***Okay, now let’s see how we can use this…

For most of this letter, it sounds like No Bliss is joking, doesn’t it? Like she sees the humor in his ridiculous demands and behavior, and is almost about to wipe her hands of him…but then…you know she’s not joking at all. No Bliss is really caught up in all this.

And it’s so easy for us to say “ewwww” – but after 17 years and 3 kids and “bliss” — any one of us would feel invested and, well, caught up.

And this brings me to the hard question: “What do you do when things change? Unexpectedly. Suddenly. Seemingly without warning. What do you do when your man goes berserk all of a sudden?”

And my answer is: Unless there’s instantaneous dementia from a physical accident or a drug reaction — there’s no such thing as “all of a sudden.” There’s no such thing as a surprise that’s this huge. No way.

This kind of thing has to be growing. Gathering steam. It could be underground, where you don’t want to look. It could be right in front of your face, where you still don’t want to look.

You could be feeling your reaction to it, and not know what that reaction’s about. This is where we women can get “tunnel vision” and just look at everything and everywhere except at the exact spot where everything’s going wrong.

So much is subconscious – where we can’t see it –so let’s say we go into a temporary state of being where we’re not aware of what’s going on around us.

So — let’s say that when we get “unaware,” it’s not our fault.  BUT — if we don’t choose to LEARN from that unaware experience — then we embark on the non-stop beating up of ourselves that I FORBID you to do!

So, along with everything else we’re going to do here, I want you to EMBRACE and LOVE even your passing unaware moments. Let’s just say that the unaware moments describe not seeing what’s right in front of us just because it’s hard to see.

Now…The man just up and walks, he runs around, he blames you, he puts you in a cage of behavior with one THREAT: He will get mad, and then he will walk even FURTHER away.

And this threat is the one that decks every single one of us.

Even if we don’t want a man anymore, the moment he threatens to GO – we want him back.

It’s like LOSING is worse than being unhappy.

Well – sometimes losing is “loosing” — just opening our iron grip and letting a man do whatever he wants to do.

Because I can tell you this — if a man doesn’t want to be with you –he’s nothing to you. Period. He’s a drain on your energy, your spirit, your heart, your health, and “loosing” a man like that is the only thing that will serve you.

(Also — it’s the only way to invite him to come and get you. (After he cleans up his act, of course –because who would want a dreadful man in the state that this one is in?)

Waiting around for a man who is acting like a single man, jerking you around and daring you to “start something” is hardly worth even a moment to “contemplate.”

The answer is NO.  No, I don’t care if you get mad. No, I don’t care what you think.  No, I no longer care what you do.

The only thing you have here to say YES to is shared parenthood.  That means you stay civil, you stay calm, you refrain from arguing.  You work only for the good of your children.

You consider yourself separated, tell him so, and go about building a new life for yourself.  Should he ever regain his senses and want to come back (and the fastest ticket to that is to forget about him and get a great new life), then you’l think about it.

This letter riled me up, and No Bliss, I hope I was able to give you a bit of a push to discover your own sense of being “done” with this man for now, except as the father of your children.

And while you’re creating this new, fabulous life (right NOW, please) – you will be working with my Tools to undo whatever your part is in this.  Even if the only thing you can put your finger on is “unawareness.”

You will be discovering how you got here, and how you can have something blissful again – even if it’s not with this same man.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1alias girl on August 21, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    hallelujah— can i get a witness? amen rori. No Bliss i feel supportive. i feel grateful you wrote in and took that first baby step back TOWARDS YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN HAPPINESS AND YOUR OWN BLISS.

    i would listen to rori and read this blog and the comments and maybe start with the ebook and the Modern Siren program and immerse myself in rori’s tools.

    baby step by baby step YOU CAN turn your life around and BE BLISSFUL with or without this man.

  2.  #2tina on August 22, 2009 at 1:07 am

    My first reaction was pft! with capitol P. Wow Bliss, I feel angry reading.

  3.  #3tina on August 22, 2009 at 1:21 am

    ok now that my first reaction is over, I almost feel fear of the situation. I would feel “trapped.” There is absolutely no feeling respect in this situation. I feel angry. I once listened to a woman tell me a story about how her husband would beat her on occasion and tell her to stay in the other bedroom while he brought his women home. She told me about feeling like there was nothing she could do. This woman has had a hard life. I dont care if you are living in a high rise over looking central park or in a trailor park , there is absolutely NO accepting of this type of treatment,yet some women do. This just pisses me off to no end. I just want to scream and destroy the planet again. Sometimes I feel my situation is so much less important than what I hear from other women, I just feel like grrrrrrrrrrrr!

  4.  #4tina on August 22, 2009 at 1:27 am

    I watched my own mother go through similiar situations and I made a vow to myself that I would NEVER become like her. I watched her get beaten,abused phyically and verbally in every which way possible. I’ve watched her pass out on a floor naked from being beaten by her “boyfriends” and having to cover her up not knowing whether she was dead or alive. Honestly this situation just drives me right over the edge, I hate him already.

  5.  #5alias girl on August 22, 2009 at 8:02 am

    tina i feel compassion for your little girl who had to witness and live through such terrifying confusion. i feel like protecting your little girl and telling her its not her fault and thatt she is safe now. i wish there had been an adult to helpt protect you, care for you and nurture you. to hug you and provide a safe place for you to experience all those big confusing feelings you must have felt. incidents from our past can sometimes cause us to make decisions about the world or other people. those decisions and beliefs can protect us in for the time being. but i know for me, the decisions i made in my own childhood no longer serve me.

    i can create my reality. i am no longer Trapped (good word) in a situation like i was as a child. i am no longer Trapped in a situation of no support and negative consequences. i am a free roaming adult able to make choices that support my best happiness and bliss. i no longer need to “buy into” somebody elses’s (or even collective environments ) opinions and low vibrations.

    i can choose for myself. and baby step by baby step i can practice and make better choices and assert my boundaries and tap into higher and higher frequencies of being. i can choose my own bliss moment by moment.

    i can say NO to abuse. No, that is not acceptable. i am a goddess and that is how i see myself and how you are treating me is something i simply will not accept. but thank you for providing me with the contrast in this situation and giving me a chance to truly be clear on what i want and what i don’t. thank you for providing me with an opportunity to reaffirm my goddessness. i know this siutation is serving us both or at least it had until now. because now i am making a new decision about who i am and what i like. and maybe you and i have come to the end of our road together.

    unless you would like to start treating me as a goddess. thank oyu. oops . THANK YOU.

  6.  #6DocK on August 22, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Wow. This was tough reading. I feel sad for the experience that “Bliss” has had so far (I’m not gonna say “no bliss” because she found Rori so I am hopeful she WILL find Bliss) but I know that there is a strong woman inside of her.

    Rori is right, though. There are so many relationship stories that we can look at and think, ‘What in the world?’ Yet, I know that many of us (me included) have had degrees of “bad” experiences. I know that there have been times when friends and family have looked at my situations and just wanted to shake me. Even though I DID leave these situations behind – eventually – that is the problem. Eventually, when it should have been long before.

    Right now – I feel very good and very strong inside but also vulnerable in the right ways. So much of that can be attributed to finding Rori’s programs and the support of Siren Island. Thank you.

  7.  #7Ann on August 22, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    I haven’t read anyone’s comments yet so I hope I don’t offend anyone. Rori I SO agree with you. Personally, I believe if my husband told me that I’d remind him of something I’ve always told him. Buddy there’s nothing you can do I can’t do as well if not better. That is after I told him to go right straight to hell.

    If I was this lady the only relationship I’d have with him at the moment would be where the kids are concerned. Who the hell does he think he is putting her on trail? I hope she starts to focus on and love herself and when all is said and done he’s wondering what the hell did I do?

    Yes, this guy pissed me off with his arrogant, attitude. But he can’t do anymore to her than she allows him to. Stand up for your children. Teach your sons you don’t treat women like this, and your daughters they deserve better treatment from a man than this.

    Ok off my soapbox.

  8.  #8Erin on August 22, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Wow…this triggered me as well. To Dock’s point…I EVENTUALLY left as well. This post really made me remember that I didn’t get hit by a mac truck…although, I remember feeling that way when he pulled the ole’ “I don’t know if I ever loved you.” speech. Wheh…that is a classic now but at that moment. I can still feel the heat on my face, my ears and eyes starting to burn and the room starting to spin. I was just blank. I can look back now and see everything that led up to it…but after 7 years, that moment…the singular moment felt like I didn’t see it coming at all.
    Love the loving yourself through all those unaware moments piece too. Sigh….
    Nobliss…I am sending you all the positive vibes I have to dig down in that place that you know still exists and do exactly what Rori said…Been there…never did that (Rori’s advice) and wish I had.
    I took the other road…where I let HIM decide who to pick…me or her and he ran me around like a dog on a leash. I felt so small…we tried to stay together and I got pregnant….and guess what…he still left. Granted, I did find that place deep in me and found my strength…I like to think my little girl was stirring it up inside my tummy….and when I did…about 5 months along…he came running back. Swearing that it was me he always loved….and he was so stupid and he wanted a family.
    To this day…this was the hardest day of my life….but I told him no. After 7+ years of a marriage that I thought was fine…even though it wasn’t…after the mess that we had put each other through, and after begging, literally, on my knees, bawling my eyes out…pleading with him to pick me…to let her go…that I would become what he needed…he finally came back and asked me that question….”do you still want to be married to me?” and I said no. (Wheh…got some tears going here)…..
    Nobliss…you know what strength you have…you know deep down, it is in there.
    Sending you hugs….

  9.  #9alias girl on August 22, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    last night i took myself on a date to go see jazz music at the museum. and on the way there somehow my zipper on my skirt broke and that felt embarrassing. and alos humorous. so i changed into jeans and flip flops which oddly more people were dressed down anyway so i ended up fitting in better.

    so at the end some guy approaches me. we get to talking. the great news is he was treated me like a goddess — at least with HIS WORDS. and if it had been someone i felt attratced to i would have liked it. or if i felt he was more sincere i might have even liked it from him. but he was soo over the top every two seconds and i just felt like he was in some dreamland idealized version of me and also that he wanted to get physical like RIGHT AWAY.

    he was as daria would say – a hover-er. constantly hovering over me trying to hold me tocuh me constantly. and i constantly had to keep telling him my feelings of discomfort or annoyance etc. the more he persisted the LESS attractive he becamse to me. i felt objectified. like he just wanted to USE ME TO MAKE HIMSELF FEEL GOOD. total ugh.

    plus other things that just made me not want to see him again. i basically told him too that i probably won’t see him again. i hope he doesn’t call.

    but the experience was great in that i was able to just have a guy be totally into me and my thoughts were OF COURSE HE IS. I AM A GODDESS WITH A LOT TO OFFER. 🙂

    but then he never asked me out really. and then at the end of the night he said he had to go get himself something to eat. and i got the feeling he would spend more time if i wanted to have sex but didn’t want to spend more time to invite me to come eat with him. and he has the money. so i felt super turned off by that as well. and that is really great news because my thought was I DESERVE A MAN WHO IS INTERESTED IN PROVDING FOR ME.

    so last night was very successful free therapy. and also enjoyable for me. and i felt great that i felt no obligation to this man whatsoever and was very clear with my feeling messages and being who i really am.

    i like a man that i am attracted to to be complimentary in a sincere way. i like my man to provide for me and perhaps worry if maybe i need to be fed as well and how he would love to provide that. and also i like a man who has already mastered his own level of happiness and doesn’t need to feed and drain off my energy. but rather we combine our energy and that feels good. this is what i learned about what i like in the now.

  10.  #10Daria on August 22, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I’m feeling kinda triggered…

    Ann I feel sad when I read this “if my husband told me that I’d remind him of something I’ve always told him. Buddy there’s nothing you can do I can’t do as well if not better.”

    I feel (very) uncomfortable mentioning this and yet I want to be honest. This feels awful to me! I feel concerned… why if I were the one being “always” told this I would feel like I could never be good enough! I would feel so sad like hangy puppydog head…

    I mean Nothing? That just feels so sad… I would feel very low self esteem and I think I would only accept something like this if I did have very low self esteem.

    That’s not to invalidate the point that for the guy in the post, well I would want to tell him to go to hell too.

    Go to hell sounds to me 1000 times better even than being told that there’s nothing I could do better than someone, esp someone I’m close to.

    I feel tight in my right side and my face a little now… I feel a little small and scared…

    also Ann I felt guilty that maybe u were referring to me (since my other post) when you said you hope you don’t offend anyone. I love you and have felt so much support from you. I wouldn’t mind being offended by you speaking your feelings or even opinion because I feel that trigger would only lead to healing, and because I feel your love so clearly.

  11.  #11Ann on August 22, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Daria, when I said “I haven’t read anyone’s comments yet so I hope I don’t offend anyone.” it was meant as it was written. I didn’t know what was above my comment. I didn’t know if my strong opinion would offend someone I just knew I hoped I didn’t.

    And the statement I made that said: “Personally, I believe if my husband told me that I’d remind him of something I’ve always told him. Buddy there’s nothing you can do I can’t do as well if not better.” Feels like it was took out of content or misunderstood.

    I don’t tell my husband he’s nothing. I don’t make the above statement everyday, I have told him that before and would tell him again in the right or wrong(ever which way we looked at it) situation. It simply means I could do anything he could just as well. If he found someone else I could too. If he wanted to flirt with women I could flirt just as well with the guys if I chose to. It means I’m just as good as he is and I wouldn’t take what the man above is handing this women laying down.

    I hope I explained better as I will be getting off the computer soon.

  12.  #12Fernando on August 23, 2009 at 1:04 am

    I’m feel sad reading a lot of this.

    Bliss, nothing but love going out to you. I can’t imagine what kind of place you must be in with this guy for you to write something like that. Follow Rori’s advice. Please! Now! No one deserves to be treated like that.

    How could a man tell a woman she’s not allowed to feel a certain emotion?

    I really hold to the rule, “This relationship will end the second it stops being a good thing for both of us.” Clearly Bliss’s relationship is not a good thing for anyone involved. He thinks he can get away with being a controlling asshole, and Bliss’s not even being treated like a human, and I can’t imagine the poor kids situation. That relationship needs to fall apart, fast.

    Sometimes it’s best to stop trying to erase the old picture, and start working on a new page.

  13.  #13Tina on August 23, 2009 at 1:50 am

    Thank you Alias girl. I remember my mother saying “dont ever let a man hit you” um ok thanks mom, god love her lol. She never said anything about emotional stuff though. I can clearly see how we attract those kinds of situations like for ex, Bliss’s story. I was took a taxi from work (cost me 28 bucks ugh) and passed by 11/2 yr. man’s home, my feeling of going down the pit was so strong feeling, I recognized this feeling, really for the first time in my life for what it is. When we first met, I felt it, just a nagging feeling I coudlnt recognize. It came on strong , I said to myself ” is this the addiction Rori talks about?, is this the feeling?. so strong, wow. I can honestly say that I feel so much better now. I’m so much more aware than I was even since last week. I am much more aware of how I feel when I am around people. The woman that he is dating now, came over unexpectedly and I was very aware of how I was feeling a feeling of distrust, I thought I just wanted to be alone. baby steps through the muck sometimes…

  14.  #14Daria on August 23, 2009 at 6:03 am

    Whoa… I am doing a wealth building course

    so part of it today was working on self sabotage:

    so I wrote down reasons to be poor and not rich…

    um i came up with 19 of them! about 9 notepages worth of writing on that… the reasons were so good I almost don’t want to be rich anymore for real! They included stuff like Poor people are more healthy, poor people have better communities…

    of course we can easily state the opposite too, but part of me believes this and that’s sabotaging my being rich

    So then I start listening to the course audio and get hypnotized to relax and talk to teh part of me that is blocking me from being rich… Just like Rori’s the Stranger exercise in Toxic Men.

    we ask the part what it wants:
    thank you

    then we ask what do you really want:
    to go home!

    why do you want that:
    because I miss it and I’m lonely

    then we establish communication with the part and well my part turned into a Gorilla, I hugged it and it turned into a baby Gorilla… then I turned into the baby Gorilla’s mother…

    there was so much else I feel too much like stuff is stirring in me … i don’t want to finish telling this right now…

    I feel really overwhelmed but I jsut want to touch on
    that when I went back again to ask it some more stuff at one point the gorilla took its gorilla suit off and it turned into a man who looked like a buff action figure who put his penis in my mouth and i let it for a second because i was going with the flow of tryna allow stuff to happen to find out my answers… and then felt like whoa no and stopped and his penis just grew and was poking me and backing me into a wall it got huge like a tree trunk so i moved out the way and still tried to shake the man’s hand to “establish communication” which is what we were supposed to be doing

    And I jsut felt really gross and exploited and I feel afraid to go back to that part although now I’m feeling a little bit better about that BUT

    then I got hit wiht major guilt about stuff really bad and I don’t want to be judged about it so i won’t write it here because u guys will probably think im a horrible person

    im feeling really disturbed! I wrote down i guess the message is i think if im gonna be rich i have to be a prostitute in some way but not only that but guilt because i knew some girls who prostituted themselves before and I even helped them like a ‘pimp’ kind of I guess and I feel really guilty about that its messing with my head and well I wrote it

    God help me I feel awful and so shaken I feel unworthy of a lot of shit right now…

    i know a lot of ppl i guess who are involved with stuff like that wtf and i don’t think anyone who isn’t would understand something like that but its just a way of life for a lot of people and i happen to know plenty of those people and i feel like im defending myself ugh i feel GROSSSSSS i feel gross and i feel bad

    and on top of that i feel ashamed to feel bad because i know or am imagining some people saying wtf do u feel bad about it suck it up theres nothing to trip about thats what it is and everyone makes their own choices and obviously u didnt have a hard enough (wtf ) life if ur worried about petty shit like that


    i feel really turmoiled right now really really … im considering EFTing myself but i think a part of me doesn’t think i deserve that even.. i wish i had an efting friend i feel like im really really really going thru it

    wow this is like more than what i signed up for right now

    i want to say i love all my feelings… luckily for me taht seems very easy and possible to say and i feel better

    i still know that i will be judged and things will never be the same after this post i bet people will secretly or not so secretly feel repulsed by me… wtf am i really writing this in a blog wat the fuck is wrong with me i must have really lost my mind somewhere along there…

    i feel like crying and nobody gives a fuck u stupid bitch if u are crying they are just gonna judge u because thats what people do DUH so shut the fuck up already!!! UGHHH!!!!!

    I feel horrible!!

    I feel afraid to stop writing! I want to be accepted SO BAD!! I want someone to tell me im ok and they understand but no one will except the people that are in the same boat as me already

    I love and accept my horribleness. thank you. if i am left all alone I love and accept my aloness, I love and accept my HATE for other people who will judge me I love and accept me and all I need is me… I feel like im putting walls of self defense up saying that I feel SO SCARED AND WORRIED AND GROSS AND UNDESERVING//// I feel like i deserved that gross feeling of my own self turning into a scary man that tried to make me suck his dick for no reason except for him not caring about me at all EW geez


    no one can say its ok when its not ok I don’t think anyone could do that now… well I hear u thought and thanhk u and I want to feel compassion for myself anyway

    I feel so Selfish and Unititled to feel compassion for myself when what i want is to be punished i guess I am punishing the hell out of myself right now… HELP ME someone… help help i gotta help myself like always always helping myself when is this fuckin life gonna end already Credits please im DONE DONE WITH THIS FUCKING CONFUSION AND pain I feel sad and alone… and lonely and scared and i feel like crying and I dont want to because i dont want to scar my uncle and mom and I feel gross bad gross


    I love my feelings
    I love my feelings
    I love my feelings
    I love my feelings
    I love my felings

    I FEEEL weird…

    I feel weird

    I feel weird
    I feel werid

    I feel weird
    I love my weird feeling

    I feel bunched over and i cant breathe deep

    I lvoemy bunched overness

    I love my cant breathe deep

    I feel bad

    4erally i just feel afraid of being judged. but u know what this is my floating journal. all these people are not real, no one is real, only i’m alive here and what matters is my opinion and yes i feel guilty but dammit i feel a little overly guilty over this everyday occurence and yet I feel bad so I guess i feel so bad and wantt to punshi myself so i can make sure ima good person…

    and u know waht i am i dont give a FUCK i dont give a FUCK what u might say.. I love my intense strong feelings… no im not sorry for that experience because obviously i learned a whole fucking lot in a lot of fucking ways. I still dont want to stop writing because writing feels reasurring right now … writing is my friend like marijuana is my friend but shes not around right now and I dont really wana talk to her anyway… who the fuck really understands me anyway… I feel bad… I feel so heavy spinning swirls… geez…

    feel bad for me won’t u? forgive me won’t u?

    will God forgive me? of course he will… he was never mad at me in the first place duh thats why he made the world this way… im worrying about nothing…

    thank you God. apparently God loves me. thats whatsup.

    and i feel like smiling now and I sincerely feel free of it.

  15.  #15Lin on August 23, 2009 at 6:18 am

    You letter sounds so much like your with a man who only real feelings are about him self.

    He also beleives your life is all about his feeling. As if your whole person is here on earth to take care of him. you lost yourself.

    He sounds like a sociopath. You did not get
    where you are by your self.. he is a master manipulator. and your caught in his web.

    You need alot of help to get yourself free of
    this bond…. which he broke…. but you are still under his spell. There is a web site called love fraud… go there and see if you can learn from
    women who had experiences with same type of man. You took the first step and asked for help. take one step at a time… knowledge is power.. ! /think about not letting him back in the house until you understand better what is going on…and that in it self will give you some power back… cause you lost all of yours with this man..
    keep in touch

  16.  #16debra on August 23, 2009 at 8:38 am

    My ex husband and I are seeing each other and trying to reconnect. This has been going on for 3 months, after 2 years of divorce and 21 yrs of prior marriage. I filed for divorce over money and trust issues. I have had a change of heart, because I love him deeply and in hindsight know that it was his ego that prevented us staying together. He is a wonderful father to our children and mine from previous marriage. He was loaded with stress of losing his job, pending divorce and providing a separate home for my oldest child. I feel that I acted out of desperation and want him back. He had asked me to come back to him earlier this year, I wasn’t ready in my mind, I felt that I had to forgive him and myself before I could move on. He had started seeing someone after he asked me the last time about us reconnecting. He says that he has distanced himself from her because he wants me. He spends about 2 or 3 days with me each week, calls me morning, noon and night to see how I’m doing. I have spent time at his place as well. He has a stressful job and works from home a lot. I know he loves me by the things he does, not just says. He is still somewhat bitter about divorce, but wants to work on it. We’ve talked about him moving in with me, I bought a house after divorce. He seems amendable to that, but doesn’t want to rush and lose his apartment, says he’ll go on a month to month lease until we can completely be together. I have a jealous streak with regards to the other woman, she is quite successful and independent. I want to believe that he is getting away from her, but he has never wanted to hurt someone’s feelings. He has told me before about past relationships and my mother has suggested that men do not easily break up with someone. I am in my late 50’s, he early 60’s, so I should know better and stop acting like a jealous school girl. I try to suppress my insecurity around him regarding her, I did tell him to move on and that we would not get back when he asked me to. I was the one that poured my heart out and said that I still love him and have regrets, he questioned my timing, thinking it is because of her only. I have searched my heart and soul and know that she has nothing to do with my decision. I had been thinking of this for a few months before her, but didn’t want to rush. We really connect on so many levels and I regret my snap decision regarding divorce. We had started seeing each other before the ink was dry, but I was stubborn and felt I needed my space. I want to make up for lost time, is there hope, he’s pretty stubborn also. When we are together, we hold hands, hug, kiss and talk. Being a man, it is not always easy to communicate with him on certain levels though. I have just began to realize after all my years of living, there really is a difference, wish I knew these websites before. Help, can I hope for a reconciliation and getting our lives back. By the way, his friends have told me confidentially that he loves me and they think that we will be back together.

  17.  #17Rori Raye on August 23, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Debra, Welcome – and it seems to me he knows exactly what he wants — you — but that you’re not sure. You haven’t worked through this. Have YOU dated enough during the separation to be sure you can make a good, happy life with him? Certainly if he starts hanging out at the house with you and staying over (I don’t know how you’re working this with the kids…their feelings must be powerful here, I’m sure they want to push you together – don’t know how old they are…). I’m not sure what the jealousy is about – but seems to me this is something you need to work on with yourself. Suppressing insecurity is not the same as healing insecurity — and suppressing anything is a recipe for disaster. I know you will find help in the Tools here…and perhaps some personal coaching and/or therapy if you can manage that…I know we all would like to see you happy and to see this work for you. Love, Rori

  18.  #18Daria on August 23, 2009 at 11:27 am

    back… so the lesson I just learned after spinning in my head and feeling all this guilt… focus on the positive.

    Soon as I did that it all cleared up. The real message I got from this is how badly I wanted peoples approval, namely from you guys…

    cuz honestly if one of u had said… oh yeah i did that too…

    I wouldhave been like oh yeah it was awesome, rock on!

    I mean for goodness sakes this stuff about sex gets too be too much for me to wrap my head around… ie porn or other stuff, hugh hefner, prositution, whats “wrong” whats “right”

    Didn’t mean to trigger anyone in the sex industry either

    i feel embarassed having said all that stuff and thats ok too

    just was having a dip on the far lower rungs of the emotional ladder…

    Rori has been telling me to chekc out my hormones and I just got an intense acupressure massage yesterday and they told me i would be topsy turvy, so I guess a lot of stuff is coming up for me

    I’m going to be going regularly all week and my hormones are getting balanced yay! I highly recommend acuPressure massage

    feeling icky in my lower tummy still worrying about being judged… remembering my friend who told me to “own” my “ghetto” experiences… thanks she knows who she is

  19.  #19Daria on August 23, 2009 at 11:31 am

    I want to believe its ?OK for me to trigger all on the blog just talking out for myself.

    I feel guilty.

    I love my guilt and Im gonna say what I want to say anyway.

    Thank u.

  20.  #20Daria on August 23, 2009 at 11:34 am

    I don’t want to apologize for myself!

    Fuck that!


  21.  #21Linda on August 23, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Sometimes there are bonds that are never broken. I have some of those with my exhusband. We were married for 29 years and I have been apart from him now for almost 3 years. I left because I was desperately lonely and recently realized that I was so angry at him. I told him I was lonely and needed him but he did not respond. My anger built up over years because I was looking for him to meet my legitiment need. I wanted him to see me for the woman I was and be passionate and love her not just appreciate the things I did and was in the home. We never had a passionate relationship…It was hard for me but I had to make a decision. To stay and continue with things like they were or go out and seek the a relationship that had all the elements in it I was missing for so long. I chose to go. I live alone, my children have made my ex the hub of their life. I have been trying to rebuild me because I poured my life out for my kids and supporting him …It is all really hard. Some days I think I tore down my life with my own hands and there is some truth in it. My search for love has been disapointing. There are many componets to relationship. We all have legtiment needs. Trust is a biggie.

    It seems I have shared passion with a couple of men. One I fell deeply and maybe was too in love with him. He validated things in me that I did not even know needed to be told me I was his everything, but then oneday I just pulled away, he was seeing another women. He told me he was not in love with me. I was devistated…. The last and most recent, I care for but his is not trustworthy or honorable with me. I have given him several chances to prove otherwise…

    I have had several opportunities to go back, there are things that are so comfortable there, history , memories… I have thought long and hard about it but I also know that what we never shared in our marriage is very important to me. I never want to be in a trapped in a relationship and be lonely ever again. I hate so much alone time but this season seems to be full of it. So I sit alone, sometimes bewildered. sometimes I feel pannic, sometimes I long for my clock to be rewound, sometimes I love my freedom to seek… life is full of choices and we are faced with lots of choices.

    We are complicated people and relationships are not easy. Pay attention to how you feel. Really go down into the soup of it all. Do you trust him, are the issues that drove you to your decision worked thru in yourself , only you can answer that. Spend time to get healthy and follow your heart. Sometimes our own beliefs are the things that limit and block us. There are answers and patiences is the key.

    Love is a powerful thing and very resillent!

    Hugs Linda

  22.  #22Daria on August 23, 2009 at 11:44 am

    check out this beautiful girl! she has no arms and legs and she CAN DANCE!

  23.  #23No Bliss on August 23, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Wow, it feels strange, having my letter posted
    like this, all you comments are great.
    I know I am not doing what most of you think i should
    be doing, but i am doing what i can. My children are
    the best kids in the world, they are sad that
    we are apart..As most kids would be.
    I may have been blind to the lead up to his sudden – I want
    out after 17years.. We really never fought, we always
    gave each other space in the relationship and looked out
    for each other as well. Something was lost when we moved
    town. Something major on his side. I am tired, its been
    a long 3 years, of arguing and fighting, moving and moving out.
    I will never know if he’s been with other woman, I know his facebook
    page has always had new ones’s on there. Who know if he met them,
    dated them, slept with them.
    I have not been on a date while all this has been going on. I did
    start chatting online with a guy, not from my town, we flirted
    a little, as you do. I was gullable he told me he was single, he wasn’t.
    His girlfriend was crazy she had a key logger tracker on his computer and
    everything we spoke about was recorded. she emailed me crazy threatening
    emails for messing with her manand her life, she was going to post naked pictures of
    me online and send them to all my friends and family.. they would have been
    ones she had created. by using my prifile picture..
    What i will never understand is, why go to town on me, he posted himself as
    single available and seeking friendship, dating, but i copped it big time.
    i was scared to even logon at night in case there was another email.

    Past that now, just do not chat to any men online, once bitten twice shy now.

    I feel a slight weight has been lifted, by you all, I have not really
    told my family whats going on, and we share the same friends so we both
    have been very quite around them.

    I am taking oneday at a time. But I do find it hard let go. I feels its
    allot to lose.

    thank you all for being so there !

    hope this makes sense.

    Smiling – No Bliss xoxo

  24.  #24Rori Raye on August 23, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Daria — I know it’s hard to quiet that voice that wants to be loved and approved of…and I love and approve of you no matter what you say — in fact, the more you let ‘er rip – the more I can say you go girl! As long as you’re sharing about you, and not giving opinions (and I think you do this brilliantly) I love every word, no matter how icky or weird it may feel to you…it’s not weird or icky to me. Love, Rori

  25.  #25Rori Raye on August 23, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    No Bliss – don’t know where you’re going online – Craig’s list? don’t do that…go to the big reputable ones. eharmony, match…you can talk through the sites and don’t have to give out any personal info until you feel safe. Love, Rori

  26.  #26Ann on August 23, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    Bliss hi, I know what I feel I’d do if I was in your situation, but not being there couldn’t say for sure.

    I hope you’ll stick around this blog, and use it to help YOU through this. The wonderful sirens and gents of this site will hold your hand and help you through this.

  27.  #27No Bliss on August 23, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Thanks Ann, I have really good days and I can take on the world, then I go the other way and just can’t see any kind of light at the end of the tunnel.

  28.  #28Ann on August 23, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Bliss I think we all have those days. But this is the place to find help, strength, and support.

  29.  #29alias girl on August 23, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    yes bliss this has been a great place to find support. and working rori’s tools and if you start with her ebook and that was where i first started using feeling messages and i don’t want statements. which basically changed my life. i feel supportive bliss. i like calling you bliss better than no bliss too. if you don’t like it or want me to stop i will.

  30.  #30alias girl on August 23, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    i’m not sure what to do with my life. or blog. or ??

    i’m not sure what i like offering?


    i am starting something new. but what? i have started. i will just keep asking myself the question then and an answer that pleases me will come.

    what would i like to offer?

    my problem is that it is all said and done already. the only thing i feel i personally have to offer is me. me. hey world here i am. thank you for giving me millions of dollars and lots of fun and love and beauty just for being me. thank you.

    hehe. i feel amused.

  31.  #31No Bliss on August 23, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    It is a huge help, I feel finally people understand. I don’t feel so alone.

    But I do find his charm clouds my judgement. Especially whens he’s being nice

  32.  #32alias girl on August 23, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    i feel good you are here bliss. 🙂

  33.  #33Erika on August 23, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    I feel like I’m in my own reality here. I do feel compassion. I read the words on the page, and they sound tragic at one level, and yet at another level they don’t sound true anymore. To me it feels like another story we tell ourselves … and the story can only continue if we participate in it. Which I guess is in alignment with what people are saying to walk away.

    But there’s more to it than that. I’ve always found I can walk away from a situation like this, but unfortunately unless I clear it with EFT, I’ll just go right on recreating the same scenario with a new man.

    Speaking of EFT … I continue to discover memories that I had not fully grieved. Today it was two memories around my brother and his break-ups in two relationships. Remembering how he was totally into the woman and then abruptly broke things off, citing all kinds of “logical” reasons, his heart shut down.

    Until today, I didn’t realize those episodes were heartbreaking to me. I had suppressed the grief. Today I applied EFT to tap the grief away, and as I did, I saw the connection with the pattern I had projected onto my own relationships. Now I predict with EFT that entire “storyline” will disappear from my life.

  34.  #34Tracy on August 24, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Bliss i feel compassion for what you are going through…i feel sad because i know so many of my relatives in similar situations.I feel that though the story feels sad to read it is a common situation and some choose to ignore the situation.I have seen it happen and it makes me feel scared because i would feel helpless and intimidated if i was to always try and find ways of winning the attention of a man who is not even showing any interest at all… feels bad just thinking about it…yet i have allowed myself to feel powerless and exposed a number of times…
    What triggered me most when i read the story is the fear of being left by a man i have invested in….i know personally i have kept friendships going with men i should have left a long time ago…..or allowed bad behavior for the fear of rocking the boat…..i still have the anger inside of me and the feeling of unworthy…and that is why i feel sad when i read this post…I feel the same way i felt when i said…its okay…lets be friends yet i was hurting inside and i wanted something more…and i feel so angry just thinking about it…i feel angry for neglecting myself and allowing others needs to come before mine…i feel angry for leaving myself out…
    I feel hopeful that everything will go well for you….it has to because now i am confident that you are going to take care of you…this blog will help loads…hugs!

  35.  #35gina on August 24, 2009 at 1:49 am

    Omg…I just had such a good date. Mmmm….I love that he didn’t push for as much as he could get. oh it was so hot and good. we had good conversations, it felt spontaneous and fun and good good good. mmmmm….he’s super hot and I felt so good with him. sometimes scared. but ultimately good. mmm…

  36.  #36Tracy on August 24, 2009 at 2:58 am

    I did EFT to clear my emotions around this post(i felt really triggered)and i had memories that date back when i was young.My parents had huge fights and i would feel so afraid each time this happened..I hated them and i hated the tension all these disagreements created…So for me i have never really engaged in any fights especially with men i like because i am still scared of the tension that will create.I am scared he will be violent or he will intimidate me…I am scared of recreating a past experience…I guess bottom line my parents did not handle their disagreements in the best way and i picked that up and i try my best to avoid them instead of looking for avenues to speak out my feelings without causing conflict…because the feelings are still there and i need to have them heard.
    I am not afraid anymore and i feel happy that i can reconcile myself with all my past…I love my parents and i know they tried their level best and i just want to make it better from here…i want to feel confident about myself and my feelings no matter whom i need to explain myself to….i can do this…

  37.  #37Aldonza on August 24, 2009 at 6:20 am

    My heart aches for that woman. Here she is, trying her heart out, and her ex just wants to play. Well, if she’s not willing to go to the extreme of divorcing him, then Rori’s advice of start circular dating is right.

    Although I’ve found it very hard to truly circular date while hung up on one guy. It’s like it taints the energy or something. But, if you can’t bring yourself to end a relationship, it is at least another option.

  38.  #38Tracy on August 24, 2009 at 7:12 am

    I can relate to the difficulty in circular dating especially when you are still hang up on someone deeply….I remember the first time i read Rori’s homepage and the only reason i kept going was because she advised that i did not have to forget my guy…I had tried that so many times and it proved pointless and i felt i was going against myself…It was hard to circular date in spite of the fact that mine was an imaginary relationship….I guess it would be even harder if i was married.
    But the truth is it works,i get it now…..I have been reading some books on vibrational frequency and Law of attraction and all i have learnt is in complete alignment with Rori’s tools….i have been and is still practicing my tools and circular dating has become easier and my vibe has completely changed and i feel that the more my vibe changes the more i attract that which feels good to me…..the more positive and excited i am the more i get to a place where i truly feel good…for me circular dating has helped me change my the way i view men and exposed me to the options that are there for me….its also helped me view my current relationship more clearly and make choices independently at a good place…
    I still feel love for my EX,I feel anxious sometimes when i see him and there are days my doubts will want to creep back and make me feel bad….but i am definitely not in the place where i was a few months back and that feels like good progress for me…
    The good part is i am slowly defining the kind of man that can truly make me happy and i feel that i am attracting that kind of man and the kind of relationship that really feels good….

  39.  #39PRPG on August 24, 2009 at 7:56 am

    Bliss I have so much to say but am out of time and cant seem to put it into words…but I will say this: Well Done for taking this first step-I dont know you but I am so proud of you. I hope reading this blog, doing Rori’s tools etc can empower you to see your true worth and realise that you ARE a goddess, simply because and with no conditions. Not “if” you behave a certain way etc (like you said your husband puts you on trial.)
    This blog is full of wonderful supportive people who have all been down similar roads as you. Please

  40.  #40Karen Roche on August 24, 2009 at 9:21 am

    I think you are on the right track …. i know i went through a situation after being married 25 years…..and i know that i am with the right man for me…. but i had to have boundaries and after finding Rori and putting her tools to work with the I feeling speeches and having boundaries and the i don’t want speeches and working on myself…. i can gladly say I have a BETTER marriage then i did before!!!! you are the only one who knows if you are getting back in return what you need from this relationship…. keep us posted we DO care…

  41.  #41Mercedes on August 24, 2009 at 10:36 am

    No Bliss: Please keep in mind that when we are with a controlling man and we allow that behavior to be a part of our lives, the controlling only gets worse. This man has set you up so he can watch you make every effort to win him (this is an ego thing for him and it’s VERY degrading) and then…even if you do…he’ll just continue to set that bar higher and higher. He wants to control you and he wants to see you fail so that he can blame it all on you. He wants the ego boost of watching a woman bend over backwards, jump through hoops and roll over and play dead all for him! This is going to beef up that ego of his and allow him to get some sort of cocky amusement out of it…and all the while, he’ll KNOW he can never respect or love you.

    Please, listen to Rori and the other ladies here. Please. He’s messed up and there’s no reason (except to drop the kids off for their visit) that you should even have to speak to this man.

    Please…move on…

    Much Love,

  42.  #42Chanel on August 24, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Hi everyone,

    Forgive me for not reading everyone’s comments.

    Bliss, I agree with Rori that a separation is in order here. Agree with him, tell him you feel EXACTLY the same way he does, including to want to date other people. Get him to commit to coparenting for the sake of your kids and get him to move out (or take the kids and move if you are able to).

    You have my compassion. I’m coming out of a 20-year relationship myself. I had the bliss for a good 12-14 years of that. Most people can’t fathom how hard it is to unglue yourself from someone you spent more time with than your own parents. It’s almost like your parents or a sibling deciding to leave all of a sudden and people are telling you to get over it, get a life, and go out and date. Asking someone to bounce back from a 17-year relationship (when they’ve usually not experienced this themselves) makes no sense–I GET WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH!

    What I have found is that dating as soon as my husband was out of the house was a MISTAKE for me. I really needed to heal and let go of some baggage before I was able to do a new relationship (in fact I’m still there, so I have tabled dating until next year).

    So this is where my advice differs from RORI’s. I’d recommend working on your life, getting some SUPPORT–I got a great counselor and found a divorce support group. I also reconnected with my family and went out and made some new friends (I recommend for this).

    It’s important to heal a little bit before dating right away because the last thing you need is some jerk to hurt you while you’re in the middle of a separation/divorce–which is what happened to me.

    The bright side of all this is that I’m having a very amicable divorce, so far the coparenting has worked just fine, and I’m having a great time rediscovering myself and doing all the things I couldn’t do because my husband didn’t want to, like going to the beach, going to concerts, having dinner parties at my home, etc. This is one of the BEST things about breaking out of a super long relationship.

    So to recap, I don’t recommend dating right now, I know that goes against Rori’s advice. Dating, in my experience, can actually make you feel even lonelier, if that makes any sense. What you need is support from your community so that you can rebuild your self esteem and get strong.

    Congratulations, looks like you’re about to ditch a complete jerk and be free! Life is better on the other side, trust me!

  43.  #43Chanel on August 24, 2009 at 11:23 am


    My divorce support group includes people who are going through separation or even thinking about it. I’m not divorced yet, but this support group has been a real blessing!

  44.  #44Rori Raye on August 24, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Thank you, Mercedes…beautifully put. Rori

  45.  #45Mercedes on August 24, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Thanks Rori! When I hear stories like this one, it makes me want just 5 minutes with the man…just 5 minutes to take him down a few notches and literally show him what an ass he is.

    Ok…maybe that part wasn’t so beautifully put but…when a man thinks of a woman as so low and worthless he can control everything from her actions to her words to her feelings and thoughts….Geez! It makes me want to show him without question that women are NOTHING like what he imagines them to be! And I want soooo much to help No Bliss through this and to do what I can to encourage her to find her strength and set her boundaries rock solid!

    I know I’m not the only one triggered by this but…this is a tough one to get out of my system!

    Much Love,

  46.  #46Rori Raye on August 24, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Chanel, thank you, and I love it when you disagree with me…however…I want you to know that Circular Dating is not about “dating” in the sense of trying to find romance, finding a man…it is ABOUT healing. It is about PRACTICING my Tools with men who are interested in you romantically, rather than just with men who are “friends.” What you are doing and recommending is wonderful – it is “Dating Yourself” in my lingo – and yet, there is more to be gained from “flirting” (when you do it as a Tool for personal growth) than you can imagine. Feeling lonelier with dating is because it triggers so much, and if you have agendas and are disappointed, you will feel bad. The idea here is to learn to NOT have an agenda. It’s EASY with a man you have no interest in…Practice with THAT kind of man. And as you work your way through men you are even a BIT attracted to — that’s when the work on yourself really takes flight.

    I do not hold with the “timeline” of healing as put forth by most. I believe things can happen overnight. Change is scary. The process takes your WHOLE LIFE. I believe in baby-steps of all kinds. Love, Rori

  47.  #47Linda on August 24, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    I hear wisdom from so many comments. This is truely a ridh place to hang and be challanged, even put your two cents worth in.

    I found this blog when I was reeling from the love of my life, up and leaving. I met him after I separated from my now ex husband. I found the courage to start circular dating. It is free therapy and they all do have a message for you. However, if and when you come across someone that you are really interested in, comes the hard part for me anyway. I met 8 men since the first of the year. Only one of them did I have any interest in. Wow I sound like a player LOL (I have been accused of that too by the way) LOL

    The relationship that was intiated by him to begin with has been a rollercoaster. I have to say I did not have an agenda for meeting someone, just dating but when I met him things had a different bent to them. We are not together now, but I wish that we could be.

    What I will say is this. Since I found this sight and learned some of the tools, I am not devistated that we are together. Before finding this site, I know I would have been. The things he has done has caused me to do a lot of self examination and become stronger not beat myself up. The things he has done that triggers me has helped me to learn more about what is important to me. Yes because things are not right between us, because of his junk, I do feel lonley. But even in that and it has nothing to with anything about me. I am learning how to capture my thoughts, stop leaning forward in my brain etc. Once I figured that out, no amount of picking by him or anyone sends me into the bad place I used to be in a bad place.

    I have gained healing through challange in circular dating even with someone I was wanting more with. I always say that everything in life is an opportunity to learn.

    I am struggling right now with energy to circular date again. But I will get back on the horse and move forward. Baby steps have led me to a much broader place and I like me now.


  48.  #48No Bliss on August 24, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Thank you for all being so supportive, Its very hard. I come from a broken family and I vowed I would do my best to make sure my kids, didn’t have to have the split Christmas’s etc.. I hate him and love him all at the same time. I do not understand how he can do this to the person he chased and wanted. He went to great lengths when we were young to make me fall head over heels in love with him..
    I have met many men that are the same star sign as him, they all seem to be the same, and treat their woman the same.. I wished I saw thru him years ago.
    ( before kids)
    I am struggling with it all, its allot to lose, family , friends, seeing sad kids, etc..

  49.  #49Rori Raye on August 24, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Brava! You are doing everything right, Rori

  50.  #50Lin on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    no bliss…. I am going through the same thing
    as you are…. right this minute…… I understand
    you so much…… I feel crazy with all the love and all the hate I feel every other second.
    He only says the nicest things to me… never a bad word… and yet he is lieing to me.. all the time…. and yet his words are the most comforting…. and assuring…. !!!!
    so abusive… so passive aggressive, so mean.
    and yet he thinks I am mean to him…
    its so hard…. and there is no closer….
    I feel so bad… and sometimes…so good.
    and yet…. its all crazy…. I pray for all of us going through this….
    Love to you, its so hard.

  51.  #51No Bliss on August 24, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Oh Lin, my heart goes out to you… Its the worst, its so hard. I pray will I ever just have a day that is not complicated.
    I find the lying so hurtfull, how do they stand there and just lie.

  52.  #52Ellen on August 24, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I feel ashamed that I was so angry about something as relatively silly as having a man comment about other women to me when No Bliss has a truly challenging situation. I am humbled with perspective and my heart goes out to her.

    I have been with Toxic Men before. I mistook addiction for love. This is about addiction. Addiction to a fairy tale we’ve created about him, addiction to hormonal feeling – even if it’s fear/adrenaline… addiction to a HABIT. He becomes a habit – and a bad one. We grow accustomed to things – even painful things – and they become loved by us for their familiarity, regardless that they are unpleasant and painful. One author said, “courtship is not for the faint of heart. If you are having trouble breaking an addiction to a toxic man, please get counseling to assist you.” I feel like courtship should be a lifelong thing. No Bliss, please understand how valuable you are and get whatever help you need to wipe the rose-colored off your glasses. When you look back at this, you’ll marvel at what you’ve already put up with that you didn’t deserve!

    Sometimes when I am feeling very weak in defending myself – or establishing strong enough boundaries not to be disrespected – I imagine someone doing to my daughter what is being done to me – or shall I say, what I am ALLOWING to be done to me (we have responsibility for what we allow) and it is so easy to see what I would tell my daughter. Indignation rises effortlessly and I know she’s so much better than that. See yourself as the little girl you would protect. No Bliss – what would you advise HER to do? And then take your own beautiful advice.

    This blog and these fantastic women – struggling, feeling, dealing, learning – have been so helpful. I am glad you found your way here, as I have. Thank you, Rori for this place. Thank you all for being. 🙂

  53.  #53Simply Shannon on August 24, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Bliss, I simply wanted to say that we are here for you as you figure out where you want to be and what you want to do. I hope you feel proud for the steps you are taking regardless of where the path may lead you. I know all too well how challenging and hurtful the place is that you find yourself now. Keep learning and keep moving. That’s the best way to guarantee you don’t stay in the same place. (((Gentle hugs))) Shannon

  54.  #54Karen on August 24, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    NoBliss, you mentioned star signs- he’s an Aries, right?

  55.  #55Lin on August 24, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    No Bliss,
    yes, I understand…. the lieing is the manipulation….. and its so a part of him.
    I can see that now so clearly…. sometimes
    and sometimes… it feels like warm water through my veins… washing away the pain….
    He never said a cruel thing to me… its always
    what I would want to hear……
    I say the truth to him… and he says I am mean to him…. and then he punishes me.. with passive aggressive behavior… ..
    I have no power in the relationship….. we are not seeing each other… any more… and yet
    he says…. his feeling of love for me is the same…! this is so confusing… and I dont see why a person would treat another person this way…. I read… I pray…. all the time…. !
    I too pray for peace…… when I am working..
    and my mind is on work…. I am ok… but when
    I lay my head on the pillow at night…. its the worse…

  56.  #56No Bliss on August 25, 2009 at 4:22 am

    He’s a Gemini ,
    wow, reading some of the things you say Lin, is like you are a fly on my wall. Or you know me.. its quite scary to know that someone can be goin thru the same to this extent.
    I fall for his charm and manipulation, then it all backfires.
    I find it hard that he is always chatting with different women online..

  57.  #57Lin on August 25, 2009 at 5:42 am

    no bliss,
    You find it hard to believe… cause he never admits it…. my guy says… so sincerely…
    your the only women I want…. and because
    I feel the same way… and its so much what I want to believe… and he is saying it… I believe it….!!! and his actions are saying different…. . I said to my guy.. what am I to believe your words or actions…. and just that alone.. he did not talk to me for a week.
    punishes me like a dog….. we have to get help
    with this.. I flip all the time…. I love him and I
    hate him…. its just like Mercedes says..
    I am sorry to say…..
    I also am very attractive.. strong women…. bonded to this man… and had so many wonderful years with him. I over functioned with him… out of my own love for him… and now I lost all my power with him….. he says he never will let me go… we belong together… and also
    he keeps so many things in his life a secret.
    He denies any other women in his life. so where is he for 3 weeks…. I have not seen him.
    He claims he is working. I want to kick him out of my life… so so bad… but my heart is broken… and the pain is so deep.
    I do not call him…. ever… I go out at night after work.. with friends.. and go to the gym.
    and eat well… and healthy…. I go to church.
    I work hard at my job… I will not let his man ruin me…. I take my anger at him and turn it to positive energy for my self…. I dont feel like
    dating.. yet… but I will just to allow a man to make me feel pretty…. cause this man makes me feel.. ugly… and there is no reason for him to treat me this poorly at all…. just mean of him…. I do think he is a pathogigal liar.
    I dont want him to be… he created a dream with me…. and never intended to full fill that dream….. and I keep believing him.
    just does not make sense that a person would do that to another person… for what reason?

  58.  #58DocK on August 25, 2009 at 6:00 am


    The part you say about the fair tale – I feel so angry when I am filled with my thoughts around this…

    We grow up with fairy tales of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

    We hear songs on the radio with men singing lyrics that are borderline “stalker” behavior and we think it is “romantic” (e.g. Sting’s “I’ll Be Watching You”).

    Then – the movies – City of Angels features Nicolas Cage giving up being an Angel to be with the woman he loves.

    Twilight features a Vampire who, while attracted to ALL humans, the ONLY ONE he CAN’T resist is Bella.

    I don’t know – is it any wonder we end up in imaginary relationships?

  59.  #59DocK on August 25, 2009 at 6:03 am

    Sorry, Sirens – Usually, I really feel like I am my nickname “Sunshine” and other times I’m just damned sardonic!!!

    I feel so much anguish for everyone’s pain. : (

  60.  #60Daria on August 25, 2009 at 7:10 am

    Ladies the answer is Circular Dating. Please believe me…

    I was in love with a man for 6 years while he went on having other girlfriends, etc, I still saw him almost everyday…

    I was so afraid of him getting another woman pregnant and guess what he did…

    only when I leaned back truly and really did I start to see taht the MESSAGE was that I did not know how to love myself, and so he couldn’t either

    Circular Dating is not about dating, it’s about therapy and learning about YOURSELF in the context of romance and being with men…

    it is the only way to really take a look at yourself, your own patterns, that “what did I do wrong” that you CAN fix even though it was never your fault …

    and bring to you the joy and happiness that you deserve

    Please don’t circular date looking for a man, that is not the same. Only circular date looking for yourself. As for the men, you can forget their name as soon as they’ve left your presence. When you are happy with you alone then you will feel the difference…, you will understand yourself and what makes you happy, and how to be happy with MAN in general, and whatever man you choose in particular…

    It is not Easy to circular date. It is going to put you face to face with the truth of your own patterns and behavior… and it will lead to healing. That is for sure.

  61.  #61Simply Shannon on August 25, 2009 at 7:26 am

    Daria: Just wanted to shout out “Hell Yeah” to your comments on Circular Dating. Totally agree. It is hard to do when I have feelings for a particular man, but it does keep me balanced and open to the world. And it takes the pressure off. Thank you for the reminder because I can feel myself wanting to get sucked back in. Thank you.

  62.  #62Rori Raye on August 25, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Wow, Daria — This is so powerful, thank you…Rori

  63.  #63Rori Raye on August 25, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Dock, this is a great topic. I love romance novels and movies, love Twilight…and I’d love to see how we can use that to HELP us, rather than blind us to what love here on earth, in our reality, can be…Love, Rori

  64.  #64No Bliss on August 25, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Lin, what you are saying is making me feel weird, that someone can be going thru exactly the same thing, be treated the same way.. be told he loves you, but is off we other woman. My man plays games, which i can not do, i speak from the heart which end up in a big argument, where he throws in back at me, this is why i can not be with you, I love you, ‘ But’ . we had so many dreams, for ourselves and our 3 children. I am trying to not let my angry for him consume my life, it does though, my weight fluctuates 3-5kg with the stress of it all, I am not a large person its noticable. The funny thing is when I am really stressed and dropped that 3-5kgs he is more attracted to me, wants to come back, more charming, etc..
    I am caught on the merry-go-round. this had been going on for 3 years, I am seeing a pattern, thru summer he seems to want his family and be home where the weather is good, by the pool at the beach etc. During in winter we do not see him for dust, sport watching at mates place or at the pubs, thurs – thru sunday..
    So yes ladies, as my intro did say he wants me back ‘But ‘ i am on trial or he wants a trial period to see if i am what he wants or can put up with us, i am not sure..
    I did say no.
    I said stay at your place, take it slow, still have our own lives. Lets stop the communication via text and email and make a call or have a small chat when we drop kids off. small steps..

    but NO. thats not what he wanted.. He moved out of his place and you guessed it wants back in Full time

  65.  #65Ann on August 25, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Bliss I knew you were going to say your man was Gemini before you did. To me Gemini=Dr Jekell & Mr Hyde. My brother is Gemini, my sister is Gemini, a good friend is Gemini, and the reason the name Justin triggers me is Gemini to just name a few.

    I won’t share any stories with you at the moment but I will say your in the right community for help. Please put yourself first. I can imagine this man is very charming and can be lots of fun to be around. But notice how you feel when you’re around him.

    Daria gave a very good complete discription of circular dating as I understand it.

    I have a splitting headache today so I might be rambling. Read and participate in the blog, Read Rori’s newletter, ebook and any programs of hers you can. We will help all we can as you walk through this.

  66.  #66No Bliss on August 25, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    Thank you, he is very charming, It does feel good when I am with him, he is funny and the life of the party all the time. He just oozes character. But you are right, I am reserved when around him, I am always waiting for the fun to end, an the otherside to appear, will it be nasty or nice..
    I am now having to deal with him wanting to move in full-time as he as no where to go. If i let that happen it will confuse our kids, he will leave again, and on and on it goes..
    I feel he should take it slow like i asked, if he is serious he has to prove it to me.. With this kind of man, how do you explain it to him, you can be blunt , nice , diplomatic, and still he will take it the wrong way..

  67.  #67Ann on August 25, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Bliss I would suggest telling him exactly how you feel. If he has a job he can get a motel room or live with friends. He choose this, which in the long run might be a good thing for you. Here’s your chance to work on your self esteem, to find your voice, to speak your truth. To stand up for you.

    Truthfully, you have no choice in how he takes what you say. That’s his stuff let him deal with it.

  68.  #68Lin on August 25, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    no bliss,
    I am not kidding you…. its the same problem.
    and its so painful… I know I cant believe him.
    but he does say the same things as your man.
    and its so damaging…. I swear…. its insane.
    I know how you feel……. Its sick…. as you know … its very sad… and its very sick.

  69.  #69Lin on August 25, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    no bliss…. I cant stand what I am hearing from
    you and the man you love….I hate what he can
    control with you….. when I hear your story… it upsets me so much…. but its the same story with my guy…. and its so hard…. we need to
    get rid of them…. do you understand…they are
    such b/s…. you do understand this is not how a healthy relationship goes… you do understand
    no matter how much we have invested in this relationship… no matter what…. this is not love we are getting from this men…. you do understand… this on a certain level…. right..
    we have to find a way out… and the quicker the better….. you do see it…. right…?

  70.  #70Rori Raye on August 25, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    It’s so great that you two, Bliss and Lin, are traveling this same path. so glad you found each other and can support each other. Brava! Love, Rori

  71.  #71Rori Raye on August 25, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Thank you, Ann, and ramble away…Love, Rori

  72.  #72No Bliss on August 25, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    I know, I hear what you are all saying, I kind of see what he’s doing, honestly, 17years is a long time, I never really had any other long term relationships, just flings, I have nothing to compare it too. I come from a broken home, my brothers and sisters have horribile relationships. Even my friends its all around me. I do not know what a real relationship is, how they treat you, ect..
    Tell me ladies, does your man, take you out instead of going out alone, does he BBQ with everyone and sit around and chat or head to the boys room once the meal is finished and spend the night there with the men. These are things I see most men doing, Is this normal or are there men that take their ladies out, and love to sit and be social at a BBQ.

  73.  #73Ann on August 25, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Bliss I come from a broken home, dysfunctional family(big time) but you know what I can’t change anyone but me. May I ask you some questions? Do you have a daughter? If so, what would a good relationship(to you) look like for her? How would her mate treat her? What’s the best you can imagine for her?

  74.  #74No Bliss on August 25, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    I know its scary to think that I would only want a perfect relationship for her, but put up with a sub standard one for myself. Maybe I am just a fool, and need to wake up and convince myself that there will be someone else that wants me and my baggage, 3 kids. But i feel there is no one out there for me , what i had was the best, looks personality, but poor attitude.

    i don’t know anymore, day by day..
    If I don’t smile, I am annoyed at him, or shitty.
    If I don’t want to hug him hello, I am dating someone else.
    If I don’t answer his text or phone while at work, I am with someone else..
    Will it ever be less complicated.

    when he doesn’t answer calls or texts, its ok , he’s in a meeting ( all smiles )

  75.  #75Tracy on August 26, 2009 at 12:13 am

    No bliss,
    I feel compassion for what you are going through…but i feel that you are making progress….baby steps and everything will start clearing up…
    I loved what Ann suggested about trying to find out what you’d want your daughter to have in terms of a good relationship…..and that should be the same thing to have for yourself…Everyone deserves to have a good relationship that feels good for them…with or without the kids…and it always starts from inside then out as Rori always say…
    Totally agree with Daria on circular dating….it has done wonders for me…and she put it so clearly when she said that its more like therapy because the more men i meet the more i learn about myself….its really true…i feel i am more in touch with who i am than i was in a long time…At first i must admit i was looking for a man really….and the more unattractive the guy was the more disappointed i got… i just go with the flow….and i only get serious if the guy proves he’s serious…I feel energized most of the time and when my icky feelings creep up…they still do…i remind myself that what matters is my happiness and feeling good…

  76.  #76Karen on August 26, 2009 at 12:40 am

    no bliss, I was just associating the kind of ruthless cruelty you’ve been experiencing with a couple of Aries men I have known. I was surprised to learn it was a Gemini, but then, I was never involved with a Gemini before. I can really feel for your agony. I wish there were some way we women could trade places, just for a few days, with the men who cause us so much pain and let them know exactly how much it hurts. While they suffer, we might gain some insight as to what makes a man do such stupid, self-destructive things to a woman he claims to love. I wish you and Lin all the blessings in the world on your journeys. Love, Karen

  77.  #77alias girl on August 26, 2009 at 1:47 am

    daria i loved what you said about circular dating. yes!!

    it’s like zoomed in, exaggerated therapy. like doing triple time when i’m on spending time with some guy i normally wouldn’t. and oddly enough even if it doesn’t feel fun, i end up feeling very good about myself and goddessey.

    HEY. i think i may have found something I LOVE to do and could spend eons of time on and just getting really into it. and maybe make some money. even so i feel very excited i am getting closer to something good and profitable.

    and hey again. i’m a gemini. and gemini’s are tough. luckily i am very taurus-ey because i am on the cusp so i kind of lucked out. but my gemini stuff is kind of intense. i would never date a gemini. my father was a gemini. so there you go. two freaking geminis. please get me out of the room NOW.

    hahaha. i feel so scared people will secretly like me less now that i have outed myself as a gemini. hrmph.

    and by the way I AM OFFICIALLY OVER MY EX. ALL MY EXES. I AM DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE. yes. it took a while and several attempts and different ways of going about it but I feel I am complete now.

    yae. which is good because i am meeting the love of my life in like eighteen days or something like that.

    oh and i turned my night around very quickly tonight. i decided eff that feeling bad and feeling sorry for myself and dragging myself down memory lane of when i used to be the lonelymeister. i went to the batting cages and hit some baseballs and flirted with a cute guy and ended up talking with the boring feminine guy. rrrgh. my bad.

    but anyway i am learning a lot and am quite the goddess.


    i bounced back in a FLASH! a goddess FLASH! Like dock’s supergirl or powergirl or what her name was!!

    a goddess FLASH!! from lonelymeister to fun goddess in a FLASH!

  78.  #78alias girl on August 26, 2009 at 1:49 am


  79.  #79No Bliss on August 26, 2009 at 2:45 am

    Small steps yes..
    Ladies.. please help me with something.
    when I get back from him having his access time with hte kids at hte family home , the house is trashed.. he’s says the kids didn’t clean it up.. I am sure we all expect kids to do some cleaning.. after themselves and maybe some chores but not the dished and the sweeping and the putting away the clothes and the rubbish, making their own lunches, while he sits on the coach and barks orders, and chats online.. while watching tele.

    when he goes back to his house he brags about how clean he is and how nice it is to come home to a clean house.

    he’s playing games again i just do not know how to stop the slave labour..

    if i start to bring stuff up, he rolls his eyes , here we go again, you are going to berate me again, and so on..

  80.  #80Daria on August 26, 2009 at 3:24 am

    i was born in Gemini and I knew I would feel triggered about this sooner or later as soon as someone asked about signs. That’s why I don’t pay attention any longer to signs because I don’t want to feel limited or judged by them

    I feel like I have many sides and not just two like people misinterpret Geminis to have…

    I feel mad and defensive

  81.  #81Daria on August 26, 2009 at 3:30 am

    I feel VER?Y ANGR?Y!!!!

  82.  #82Simply Shannon on August 26, 2009 at 6:50 am

    Bliss: It’s all about boundaries and how YOU feel. Maybe he’ll come around and maybe he won’t. This is about you sticking up for you. I’ve been in your shoes. Married for 8 years and now divorced with two small children. I thought no one would want that. Reality check – there are LOTS of men out there looking for someone just like me… and someone just like YOU. Having kids is not a deterrant. Honestly when I’m dating someone who doesn’t have kids or wasn’t married once already, it feels weird to me. 🙂 I’m thinking “why don’t you have kids yet?” or “why haven’t you married yet?” I’m 36 though so not just some young chick starting out, ya know? That has big appeal to lots of men. And as hard as it feels to you right now, just do it. Rip off the bandaid and get out there. You will be amazed at the effect it will have on your whole attitude.

    As for the house being a mess, state your boundary to him. “I expect my house to be picked up/tidy when I return home. If I continue to come home to a wrecked house, I’m going to ask you to watch the kids at your house.” I know kids will make a mess, but he’s the adult and he is using YOUR home to visit HIS kids. If he can’t respect your boundary, then he can keep the kids at his place or take them wherever. I did this with my ex. I allowed him to watch the kids at my place for a long time and then I started to feel uncomfortable with that. So I asked him to start watching the kids at his house instead. (In my case, I didn’t state a boundary. It wasn’t necessary. Just told him he would be watching the boys at his house. Period. I wasn’t asking him for permission.) Yes, I felt bad at the time, like I was making it harder on the kids. This is our new reality. Kids adjust. All that worrying was in my head. All is fine now and guess what – I don’t have to feel uncomfortable anymore.

    Baby steps.

  83.  #83Flipper on August 26, 2009 at 7:38 am

    Daring Daria, Warrior Princess of the Shanameh – I feel so many of your gazillion sides thru your sharing here. I could never imagine just two for you!!!! (I don’t like the signs bizness, either, even tho’ a lot does apply to me. Very often it’s the very limiting things that I want to feel I’m so much more than.)

    And re your earlier flights and plunges and renting of curtains, I just love how you dare to expose all the ‘terrible’ junk (whether horrid for you or what you imagine as unforgivable and judged by others). It’s all wonderful to read and feels so freeing – here’s someone who’s not only admitting all that to herself but going on record and allowing it to be seen and felt by me, whether I’m going to find it admirable or triggering. Your experiences shared like that feel so validating, and I feel reassured about my own abject soup. (PS This is kinda what I wanted to say in that earlier post I didn’t have time to finish replying to.)

    Ditto the others’ praise for your circular dating write-up – fantastic. It’d by nice if that plus what Rori just said would flash on here automatically as soon as someone made a comment about their misgivings or allergy to circular dating. With IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MAN in caps, and ***it’s about therapy and learning about YOURSELF in the context of …. being with men***, in rainbow colors.

    (No)Bliss==>Noblesse. I’m with Ann in encouraging you not to preoccupy yourself with what he may or may not do, say, feel, think. Something gets thrown back at you? Don’t have to catch it. Let it fall of it’s own weight and turn away – toward something that concerns you, even if that’s only straightening the mail on the table or going into another room.

    I would not want him in my house to see the children, especially under the intentionally humiliating conditions you describe. I can easily see myself accepting it , however, “for the children”, or “since I should” or “as he’s manipulated my seeming agreement” but really because I’d feel powerless to stop/stand up to him. But I KNOW I would NOT WANT THAT, that it would make me feel terrible to suffer his sh*t. And now I know that my feeling about it is the most important thing and that it’s ESSENTIAL I don’t allow it (for me AND the kids and even any hope of saving the relationship). Have you seen Overlooked’s story on the other thread ‘Don’t walk on eggshells’? Good example of the power of walking away.

    Hugs to All.

  84.  #84Daria on August 26, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Thank you Flipper! ?You are great!

    Love D

  85.  #85Rori Raye on August 26, 2009 at 9:03 am

    Ann – thank you for opening up these questions for No Bliss – and for all. And if you don’t have a daughter – imagine yourself as a young person – what would you want for her? Love, Rori

  86.  #86Mercedes on August 26, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Ann: Yes…thank you for asking that. I actually said the same thing to J once. He was defending something horrible he’d done and I said: “Ok. So you have reasons for why it’s okay to do this to me. Let me ask you, if this were your daughter and her boyfriend, would you defend him as strongly as you are defending yourself?” When he answered, I said “Then why am I so much less than her? Why don’t I deserve to be treated the way you would want HER to be treated? What makes me so different? Do you think my dad agrees?”

    He got the point. I haven’t asked him to think about it in that way since, but I would…because I wonder sometimes…do guys ever think about their daughters or their mothers or their sisters when they’re deciding how to treat a woman, or does it not even cross their minds? How do we get them to think about it that way? Does it always have to be in retrospect? Hmmm….I don’t know, but wish I knew a way and wish I could communicate to all men.

    Much Love,

  87.  #87No Bliss on August 26, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    You guys are great, I am going to point it out to him that way, it probably won’t fix up, lots of damage, he may see for the first time what he has done.
    Lets hope my daughter doesn’t ever get treated the way I have been treated.

  88.  #88Karen on August 26, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    no bliss, I agree completely that if he lets the kids make a mess, he should clean it up. Also, asking him if he would want his daughter or sister treated that way is brilliant! Thank you Ann for this insight. I’m going to try that on my significant other the very next time he tries to disrespect my boundaries.
    Daria, while I have never been romantically involved with a Gemini, I have several friends who are that sign and they are all fabulous- just like I know you are!

  89.  #89No Bliss on August 30, 2009 at 3:47 am

    Well thought i would share.
    I tried what Ann said and it back fired.. he laughed, and said told you not to try you physco analysis bullshit on me..
    If she gets treated like shit, I am going to wonder the other side of the story, and she will learn from her mistakes..

    Yet with this attitude he still has ladies flocking to him wanting to be with him, go figure.

  90.  #90Daria on August 30, 2009 at 5:23 am

    No Bliss I feel furious reading this. The message I get from this is that he thinks you are to learn from your mistakes … that is the mistake of allowing someone to treat you less than you want

    Raise your boundaries as high as you can… get in touch with your anger…

    I would say no more contact with him at all…

    It’s difficult to see what exactly is going on in your communication, perhaps if you can post the wording of your interactions?

  91.  #91Aldonza on August 30, 2009 at 7:16 am

    I can’t help but wonder…if he has his own house, why is he still doing visitation at your place? Most guys who have their kids *have* them. They aren’t babysitting.

    I would say, “This visitation at the house thing isn’t working out for me. We need to find a way for you to take the kids out/to your house for visitation.”

  92.  #92Ann on August 30, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Bliss I’m sorry I meant to respond to you the other day and l got sidetracked.

    I’m going to be blunt, my questions were for YOU not him. I feel bad that I didn’t get a chance to warn you but it’s been my experience that most men DON’t get these questions. Usually what I hear is no man better treat my daughter that way but then they think it’s ok to treat the women in their life that way.

    The only way you’re going to get his attention is to start standing up for Bliss and stop taking his BS. I want to say right here I’m not judging you, I’m not downing you or finding fault in anyway. I am simply stating a fact.

    I’d almost bet money he isn’t treating and talking to other women like this. That is until he gets them reel in.

    I hope your reading this blog and Rori’s newletters and anything else of hers you can. I hope you write more here, let it out. As Daria said find your anger.

  93.  #93No Bliss on August 30, 2009 at 6:49 pm


    I am glad i have you all, in allot of ways you can say lots of things
    to me and i really can’t annoyed at you, you don’t know me, true thing is
    you are only reading my side of the story.

    He does not have his own place and shares with other people.
    He wants back, says he realizes whats he lost. ( SO he says )
    Yet still treats me like this.

    He talks of Christmas and holidays away, beach etc. but i am feeling
    he is all talk and no action.

    Ladies i am a not as strong as you like, and people do walk all over me. I am
    trying to be strong and stand up to him.

    Its hard.

    One things i want to ask, a tad personal.
    but i am confused why i am treated like this ..
    DO men not have a sympathetic bone or this one, he’s always been like this.

    Most of my adult life, when Its that time of the month – i never knew i had them,
    light, no cramping, no moodiness etc.

    Life was good while it was like that – wouldn’t affect my sex life or drive.

    But things change.

    I feel yucky a few days before, they are heavier and last a week or so, and affect
    my sex life yeh.. he thinks that i am faking, or do not desire him..

    OMG he just doesn’t get it..

    He should be sympathetic, why aren’t they, he’s had it cruisey for so long with it never
    affecting and now..

    well what can i say.. age may have caused the change – stress ????

  94.  #94Lin on August 30, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    no bliss….
    its hard…. yes its hard… ! You only know him
    as your man… and you only know the way you are treated by him….. all talk…. no action.
    yet… you love him… you accept him, the way he is… with others …. living with others..

    what would he FEEL if you went out with another man.. and it got very close.. ?

    Does he admit he is with other women.?
    Does he lie to you.?
    It hurts so bad… !!
    You seem so honest.. and sincere… and this guy is telling you stories. Dreams!

    just like mine… he will never admit it… he wont talk about it with me.. its off limits..
    My moods are all over the place… love and hate… and free and sad..
    so not interested in men right now at all…. but I do know its other men that will help me feel better…. just by treating me nice… and I deserve nice.
    I guess. I just want the truth from my x..
    I cant get the truth from him.. and I just have to accept it…. and move on…. its such tricks they play with our hearts and heads….

    I caught him lieing to me… and that was the end of our relationship… he showed me..!!
    sounds familiar…. all thought he will never admit anything… !!!

    just pray for healing.. of our hearts..
    and we need to move on…. what do you think.
    dreams that never came about… do we still believe them… or are we ready to know a another love that is real…. and really there for us…. I am in your shoes…. and I am saying the right things… I dont always feel strong..
    just can talk the walk… but can we walk the walk…?

  95.  #95Aldonza on August 30, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    @No Bliss
    Our hormones are different at different points in our lives. I know mine have changed over the past few years. Hormones are also definitely tied to stress, and he’s stressing you out big-time! This is where putting yourself first will help. Start taking time to do things for your own health to feel better for *you*. Also, sex drive for women is very tied to emotions. I know that when I feel loved and desired, I feel more love and desire. If he’s not treating you like a sexy, desirable woman, it’s no wonder you don’t feel like one.

    Lastly, and this has been a hard one for me too, people treat us the way we teach them to. He’s had it cruisey for so long because you taught him that is the way it is…why would he think otherwise now? It’s your job to teach him that it isn’t like that anymore. It’s hard because you *are* changing the rules on him. Of course he’s going to cry foul! What spoiled child wouldn’t?

  96.  #96Ann on August 30, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Aldonza very well put.

  97.  #97No Bliss on August 30, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    He does not admit he’s with other women, he has 2 mobiles, 1 work, 1 private, he leaves them in his car. always with a pin lock on them.

    He does not like to talk about anything again like you its taboo..

    He admits he likes talking with other women, he likes going out alone and meeting new people.

    I feel he’s lying all the time.. I am not even allowed to ask who he’s playing golf with, if he’s heading off one weekend. thats prying .. Not my business..

    I am trying to stand up to him, but its like having a teenager in the house .. hard work.
    You could say he sulks and treats you like one when he does not get sex, or has to have the kids , or do some work around the house. It has to be all his way or he ‘s horrible to be around.

    I know you think i am complaining and may be really hard on him but seriously .
    we both work full time – he comes home and sits , i have to do all the kiddie stuff home work , lunches school clothes for next day etc and tea for the kids..
    He does not clean up after dinner or make dinner, he does lunch orders instead of fruit and sandwiches.
    He has been working hard all day , why does he have to come home and work .
    I agree, we all feel like that, if everyone chips in and helps it gets done quicker and we can all relax.

    I can say i am expecting one of you to yell and me soon,
    i probably deserve it, I am caught up in the love i had for him and the dislike for him.

    I know he’s nice to all other ladies, I seen his comments to them on his facebook pages, so sweet, charming the pants of them, sexy comments all the time, we all love to flirt, but thats a bit to open and global for my liking.

    i would love him just to tell me what he wants – in or out.
    I am sure he wants out, but with 3 kids out is hard, financially its makes both our lives harder.

    And as you all know the list goes on and on ..

    thank you for being so supportive. As i do not discuss this with any family and friends, I thnk they would all run a mile.

  98.  #98Lin on August 30, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    No Bliss,

    I feel you have so much power in this relationship with him… that you do not know about..
    He is having his family
    .. and a single life also.
    No man would loose his family.. and all that expense in divorce.
    I am sorry, to say this.. but we both have been trained.. by them…
    we get punished when we expect to be treated like we SHOULD be treated.

    They have been getting away with it..
    Its not easy raising 3 children… so.. I know what you are going through. !!!

    So.. you have been trained not to ask questions. So.. you want to keep the peace.
    He has to be with the children in the home.cause he has no other home..

    I do not think your complaining… YOU are doing this all yourself… however he does pay the bills…???

    Maybe your just waiting till the children are older. and you can kick him to the curb….
    He is a master manipulator…. you have to understand that….
    what would happen if YOU went out.. and keep it all a secret… !! just like him…. would that be acceptable to him.?
    You are very smart not telling the family… or friends… they would say.. leave him and that is not what you need…. you need to do what is right for you… and in the time you need..
    I finally accused my x guy of lieing.. and now
    he does not tell me anything.. just quiet about
    himself… and he just asks me… and when I ask back and comment on his not opening up..
    he has to get off the phone…
    I just have to know what I feel is true… and not expect him to tell me anything… I know him
    and I know he is lieing to me… his voice changes…and he is hiding so so much.
    except If I say… is there someone else.. in your life… he says… are you crazy.!! your the only women I want.. !! so then I say… where are you then.? working he says…!!

    I know he is lieing….. but.. I then am angry
    and I do my own thing.. but when its the end of the day… and I put my head on the pillow..
    I wish he was telling me the truth… and I wish
    he was still here with me… I feel its all been
    such a night mare…..
    I guess this happens all the time… like the show cheaters….. cause people lie… and have
    affairs…. and thats just the way it is..
    values… out the window… I come from parents that were in love with each other.. always..
    no cheating.. no lieing…
    He does not want to see me.. and talk cause
    he knows… I will say.. good-bye to him.
    and he does not want that… but he is not going to give me an honest relationship either.
    not now…
    I have to curricular date…. I have too.
    and its best for me… just not to answer the cell when he calls… no texting no talking.
    I know that is best… but I dont know if I can do that.. I have witnessed other women doing that
    to the men they did not have any power with.
    and wow… did that shift in power change.. !!

  99.  #99Simply Shannon on August 31, 2009 at 5:32 am

    Bliss: Your hormones definitely change over time and all throughout your cycle. After having my boys, my period is completely different. Same as you before (no cramps, light, easy)… now I have sharp cramps and a heavy period. Blech. Sometimes it’s just our bodies changing.

    I was married for 8 years, and my ex was/is irresponsible and happy to go out whenever he pleased. I tried arguing with him, ignoring him, making him feel like crap for leaving me home alone all the time but it was ME keeping everything the same. I wanted to blame him, but *I* taught him how to treat me.

    Now I know I need to be the girl in the relationship. Feeling messages all over the place. *I* am responsible for making myself happy. I do not have to tolerate bad behaviour for love. I’m slowing learning that with my current relationship. Letting go is so hard but it is so true that anyone who truly loved you will come back if you release your grasp on them. I wish I had known how to set boundaries and speak to my ex. Things might have turned out differently.

    Keep reading Rori’s stuff. It’s so different than everything we girls have been taught. I don’t know about you but I spent most of my life (36 years) ignoring my feelings and never speaking my truth about what was going on with me. Always put on the happy face and acted strong when all I wanted to do was break down.

    You are NOT a doormat. You are a Siren. Lovely, beautiful, and sexy just being you. This man does not see you as a Siren. It’s time to show him. I can’t guarantee anything but I’d be willing to bet that the moment you start showing him you’re a Siren, he would be on you like white on rice. He’s so used to the old you and being able to walk all over you. Be the new you. Bring out the Siren that’s hiding inside you. She is there already. Find your anger. Find your Siren.

  100.  #100Daria on August 31, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Bliss it sounds like he wants you to STAND UP FOR YOURSELF in an authentic way.

    He is causing a lot of ruckus and drama, because in a way he’s Helping you be authentic and real and FIND YOUR BOUNDARIES!

  101.  #101Simply Shannon on August 31, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Daria: I love what you said. So true. Thank you for the reminder. Every man is a messenger. Thank you!

  102.  #102No Bliss on August 31, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    I feel everytime I try to say something, if backfires.

    He walks out

    He doesn’t speak to me for days

    Ignores what i have said

    I am trying, but i am on information overload

    I do not know which way is up

    what to read first.

    I am not that financial and things do cost.

    I love all your help and I so love that fact that you are
    making me see things clearer, and maybe there is hope
    for us. that makes me smile ..

    But also if we don’t work, all of you will help me move forward and still “SMILE”

  103.  #103Lin on August 31, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    no bliss… I am really helping you right now.
    I know this man you are married to.. ( not really)
    but I do…. do not ask him questions…. do not care…. just do your own thing…
    Change…!!!! do not call him a liar.. that loses your power with him… you understand this.
    I am sure…
    jut know… he is lieing to you… and just pay attention to it…. do not care… do your own thing… unconcerned… you will gain power through not caring… acting that way….
    and then.. once he is begging you for your feeling… you can give them to him… right now..
    you are not so sure you love this man.. any more with the way he has treated you.. given you no room to have feelings… of your own..
    he is on trial…. now…

  104.  #104No Bliss on August 31, 2009 at 11:09 pm


    you had me there for a moment, n I truly thought – Ohhh no !!! someone I know – has realized its me..

  105.  #105No Bliss on September 1, 2009 at 3:33 am

    Do you ladies know Facebook..

    what do i do..
    he has supposedly taken all these strage women off as his friends and he’s not chatting with them anymore

    yehh right

    well tonight i notice in the section of friend suggestion – or do you know your friends friends. Some of these woman that he deleted are showing up,, For them to show up they have to be one of his friends but he’s hidden them

    do i confront him..

    i really want too.,
    i know that sounds childish

  106.  #106No Bliss on September 1, 2009 at 5:38 am

    reading back over what I wrote its sounds so pathetic and desparate.

    he’s playing me I know, its not nice to know that he thinks he’s hiding these gorgeous woman, yet i can still see them. He’s adding new ones anyone..

    Ohh its fun to be me.

    I have not confronted him..

    He invited me out to a function, seemed all excited, when he told me the date I had to decline, kids had a grandfinal sports event on..
    I think he played me again.

  107.  #107Daria on September 1, 2009 at 6:08 am

    No Bliss…

    let him know you feel angry (in feeling messages only, no You statements demands or accusations)… he ignores you, yells, runs away for a week, WHATEVER

    that is where you find your strength and focus on you

    then he will come back… but only if you find your strength and focus on you while he does his drama behavior

  108.  #108Lin on September 1, 2009 at 6:20 am

    No Bliss,
    Your knowledge is power… Because your husband
    is like he is… and he does want he wants to do..and punishes you for having feeling about anything in your relationship.
    you understand.. a good MAN would be going to the important final sports event with you.
    so yes, he played you..( but you know what is going on) so he is playing with himself.

    I agree….now he has excuse not to attend with you.. plus… you cant go with him to his function. He is so clever.(not)
    but you know what is going on….
    I would not confront him.. cause then you will be punished for it..
    The other girls might not agree with me..
    because we do need to be real with our feelings….. and that might be the right thing to do…. but at this point… I think you need to get your power back with him..!!
    To get the power back… you need to act, just fine with what ever he is doing.. and you do your own thing… not ask him questions..
    and give him the feeling… your just fine..
    and unless you are willing to walk away from the whole relationship… with him. and really do it… which is the best thing to do …. but the hardest thing to do…
    I think men like him. is so insecure.. he needs the love and attention from many many women,. and in reality… he cant love any one back…. cause he cant be honest with anyone.
    Love and honesty goes hand in hand.. with intimacy…. what do you think.. ??
    Your a strong women… but you will make it..
    with him or with out him…
    hugs to you.

  109.  #109Daria on September 1, 2009 at 6:54 am

    I disagree with Lin so strongly. Lin it would feel awful to think I have to ACT like something… that is totally the wrong direction… ohhh I feel so concerned hearing that…

    yes we do take back the power by focusing on ourselves!

    Yes we when we focus on ourselves we are unconcerned with what he’s doing.. thats what we do after we share our feelings… and if he starts drama… then focus on ourselves, and feel our feelings

    in this case it may look like we are Acting unconcerned but it is actually us exercising our womanly power…

    so in a way Lin yes you are right, however please please do not think that you have to be someone other than yourself or in any way LIE or be INAUTHENTIC… this will hurt YOU!!!

  110.  #110DocK on September 1, 2009 at 7:35 am

    I am familiar with Facebook (FB) and it is very easy to block and hide individuals from another person if that is what one wants to do.

    I actually did go through a FB thing with a guy I was seeing. He told me that a friend told him about it and how you can find people from your past and he seemed excited about it. So he got onto it and the first thing I saw was primarily female pictures so I talked with him.

    I told him that I felt really uncomfortable bringing it up but I felt weird seeing primarily women as his new “friends” and a funny feeling in my stomach when I saw this and I didn’t know what to think and what did he think?

    He reminded me that he HAD told me before that he primarily knew women (friends of his GF) in college and so a couple of them had friended him and then told me which ones were relatives and so on.

    He said that I could always talk to him about what I was feeling and that it was his job to show me that I could trust him.

    It’s funny that since then, he has still less than 30 friends listed (male and female) and since I got onto it I have over 100 and some of them are guys I used to date that looked me up and just kind of wondered what I have been up to and then that seems to be the end of it.

    The key is that in a relationship a loving partner should have no problem reassuring the other partner as long as the questions asked are without drama and lets the other know what s/he is feeling.

    This guy also said to me as reassurance that “you leave nothing undone for me to need or want anything else.” Maybe that might just sound like really good PUA talk – I don’t know. I felt he meant it – I hope he meant it.

  111.  #111Lin on September 1, 2009 at 8:54 am


    I know you are perfectly correct.
    INAUTHENTIC… this will hurt YOU!!!

    I guess, dealing with my x who is so much like
    her husband…. seems so hopeless to me.
    my x who is so inauthentic with me… punishes me when I am authentic with him…
    Its my way of protecting my self.. with him.
    He is my x… He says he loves me.. and all is the same… and yet I know he is always lieing to me… so there is no real relationship there.
    and yet… I love hearing from him … from time to time… its just my way of protecting my self from him….. does this make any sense to you.
    in a normal relationship…. I would NEVER do this…. I just feel in these relationship where the guy continues to lie… always…. just let it go… live you own life… cause there is not a real relationship going on…
    maybe I have gone crazy….. ?

  112.  #112Simply Shannon on September 1, 2009 at 9:13 am

    Ignoring my feelings with my ex didn’t work for me. I tried ignoring him and going about my business but it ate me alive. Then I would end up exploding in anger at him, usually over something minor. But in that moment ALL the anger flooded out. Telling someone how I feel in the moment is like letting steam out of the tea kettle before I lose my top. It’s okay to feel pissed off. It’s okay to say “I feel angry and disappointed” or “I feel turned off”. Saying “I feel fine” when I know I’m not is lying to myself and to others. There is a time and a place for everything though. I don’t beat myself up if I can’t find the right words all the time or hold off and say something later. This feeling stuff still isn’t natural for me. Sometimes I need a day (or two) to figure out what I’m feeling. And sometimes that’s better because I find out what I’m really feeling and not just “angry” or “sad”.

    I remember being where you are Bliss. I was checking phone records and emails and looking at sites he’d been to. Basically my life became watching HIM and checking up on HIM. **I** wasn’t living back then. I felt horrible and so low at that time. I wanted to blame him, and I wanted to blame myself for being a horrible wife. If only I’d done X or maybe if I was skinnier or maybe if we had more sex, blah, blah, blah. It took me a long time to realize that I was taking scraps for full meals… even longer to find myself again and see myself as a whole, vibrant, amazing person.

    Just learning to say “No” is so powerful. “No I don’t want this in my life”, “No I don’t want to feel this way”, “No I don’t want to see you right now”, “No”. Once I started saying “No” (instead of being nice and saying “yes”), I stopped feeling like a doormat and regaining my power. It’s been a slow process for me but I’m finding me again and starting to believe that my life can be different. I’m not living my life anymore just praying I can get through the day.

    I feel angry reading how he is treating you. I feel compassion for your situation because I’ve been there. I know feeling stuck and having no clue how to get out. I know feeling ashamed that the whole world will find out my marriage sucks. I know the fear of being divorced. Even though you may feel alone, believe me, you are not. Many of us have been just where you are.

    For me in my current situation, I try my best to stop focusing on what he is doing. Unless he is physically in my presence (or by phone), I’m really trying to release him from my brain. I stay busy. I do stuff that is fun for me. I’ve stopped being available to him at all times. I look at the men around me. I flirt. This is the essence of circular dating. I felt confused by that term for awhile now. Reading some of Daria’s comments about it has really helped me. She knows what she’s talking about. (Thank you Daria!) It’s just flirting with all the men around you. It doesn’t have to be a traditional “date” if you’re not comfortable with that yet. Basically I do whatever I need to do to feel good about me today. Do I wanna feel sexy? I wear a lacy bra and panties for ME. Do I wanna feel pretty? I get a new haircut or mani/pedi. Do I want to change? I come here to Rori’s blog. I learn about myself and open up to the possibilities. Will I end up with the man in my current rotation (long story – not important here)? I don’t know. I can’t focus on him. I can only focus on me.

    I hope this is helping. Shannon

  113.  #113Simply Shannon on September 1, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Lin: I understand what you’re saying. I had to do that too with my ex who was also an alcoholic. But at the same time, I could never truly ignore him and pretend it was all okay. Hence the reason we are divorced, right? 🙂 It’s a fine line. Like I said above, there is a time and a place for everything. Just because I feel angry at 3am when he would come home stumbling drunk, doesn’t mean I should say “I feel angry”. I mean, what would be the point? For now though, I’m really trying to speak how I feel as close to the moment I feel it or at least as soon as I know I’m feeling something I can describe. 😉

  114.  #114Daria on September 1, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Dear Lin,

    it does make sense. and still I say, his “punishing” you is not something to be afraid of

    if you try to avoid it, you will only continue this pattern

    be strong. During the times you feel he’s punishing you, Forget about him. As much as you can. Let him withdraw. Pay attention to you. As Rori says, he Is NOTHING to you until he is treating you well… ie telling you the truth, helping you feel safe, and much more

    you are Brave! I know you are because here you are speaking your truth and how you see things…

    you will not win him or keep him and he CANNOT change until YOU are going to be ok by yourself

    yes theres a lot of pain by ourselves, when we think our man is punishing us, I have been there. I stopped contacting my ex. He punished me by not calling. For 6 months. He told everyone he is no longer speaking to me. But then. I found myself. My life is getting so much more than the imaginary relationship i had. My heart Is HEALING…

    take all the baby steps you can. Honor your feelings. Feel out Rori’s advice. It works. And post here. You know we all post here to help us through the times when we feel oh so alone and lost.

    There were times when Rori’s e-letter in my mailbox every 2 days were all I had to look forward to in my life. I have changed so much, and you will too, and fast. You will never lose anything you don’t want to lose by loving yourself. You will only gain. The things you lose will help you gain so much more than Nothing and Pain. you can have real love and truth

    Tell that man it feels so good to hear from you.

    or… I feel IcKy… I feel so awful and mistrustful hearing that… then be silent… let him say whatever mean stuff maybe… say … oh I feel sad… this feels awful… cry… HANG UP the PHONE on him… that was my first baby step. I started hanging up the phone when my ex would call me horrible names and stuff…

    If he goes away, let yourself be with YOU and whats MORE go out adn CIRCULAR DATE… oh it will start to get so much easier and FAST.

  115.  #115Daria on September 1, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Shannon I feel so good that me talking about Circular Dating had an impact on you!!! YEAH!! I feel so good!!!

    BTW you are so awesome!!!

  116.  #116Lin on September 1, 2009 at 10:44 am


    Thank you so so much… I know you are right on…. I thought I was just so tired of working on this relationship… I wanted to just cave in.
    and have it his way… BS! BS!

    However, you have showed me also… that I am compermising my own integrity….and my own values…. which is so important to me… my feeling… my heart…. !
    I will share my …” I feel “feeling with him.
    when he calls…
    and Rori is perfectly correct.

    he Is NOTHING to me until he is treating me well… ie telling me the truth, helping me feel safe, and much more.!!!
    But I have to be my true self.. and honor myself
    and my feelings… always…!!!
    Yes, I was pretty mixed up..thank God you caught me… !!!
    Love all you guys !

  117.  #117Ann on September 1, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Bliss I have one thing to add to what the sirens have said today. It’s a quote I’ve found to be very true, when he’s pouty and withdrawing for days think about this quote:

    “No man ever died from pouting. ”

    Let him pout, let him be, focus on you and finding things you enjoy.

  118.  #118No Bliss on September 1, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    I still have commented on it at all.
    I am bothered by it. It does eat at me, and finally I explode, allot like what Sharon said.

    Then I say too much, and not careful with what I say and make everything 10 times worse.

    He has just sent a funny email, just sharing the humour, but its was sent to him from one of the single ladies he’s chatting and having coffee with. Now is that a slap in the face or here i am being open and showing you i am not hiding her from you . you can see her email address.
    I feel its a slap in the face, seeing he says he ‘s not communicating with them.

    Do i react or ignore,

    this is my biggest downfall, i never know how to handle a situation, and i end up stewing on it too long and say way too much affend the person I am venting at/to .


    I do not like games
    I was not designed to game play, its too mentally draining .
    I am exhausted.

  119.  #119Fernando on September 1, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    The least seductive thing anyone can do is need another person. Desire brings people closer, need pushes them away.

    Realize that you will not just survive, but THRIVE without him. Any time or thoughts you give him is a favor to him. He is no gift to you. Right now, he’s just doing his very best to make you aware of that fact.

    It’s clear that you are a beautiful person, Bliss, and I want to see this handled for you. These comments are nothing but love for you, I hope you know that.

  120.  #120No Bliss on September 1, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    I know ,
    I thank you all,
    He manipulates every situation.
    Fathers Day weekend.
    Supposed work but really heading to sports event..

    His weekend with kids, and now he going to hang with his mates play golf..

    He just does, doesn’t ask.
    He changes things all the time to suit him, plans in place, do not suit , then he changes, his life and job come before anyone..

    I am just havng a very frustrating day..
    I know you will all get frustrated with me, I feel so
    lost. battle is over, i feel i am in a no win situation ..
    i do not want to win or him win but it needs to work for everyone and not be onesided .

  121.  #121Daria on September 2, 2009 at 1:15 am

    Lin you are so sweet. I feel so touched. I feel almost incredulous, so happy that my words had this affect on you. Ohhh keep up the loving you LIN. I feel so glad.

    PS if you post under the most recent front page posts, it feels much easier time finding your comments. I do it all the time it doesn’t have to be on topic with Rori’s posts.

    also everyone else come post front page (if you want) don’t have to stick to commenting on only one post (unless you want to of course).

  122.  #122Daria on September 2, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Dear No Bliss. None of us are designed to play games. This is not a game. let me repeat this is NOT a game. This is a crucial very important learn to LOVE YOU so you can have the LIFE YOU WANT process.

    also what he’s doing is not a game, though it may seem like it… he’s just doing what he wants to, maybe cus he’s totally clueless, maybe he’s repeating some damaging patterns, the point is IT DOES?N?T MATTER

    how did you feel getting that letter? apparently very angry

    FEEL that anger. step 1.

    Express it in feeling messages. step 2.

    That would look like… I feel furious getting this email! or perhaps… I was feeling glad to get an email from you, and opening it up I feel furious and humiliated!

    pause here:

    he says why..

    you say:
    I do not want to tolerate seeing your communicationwith other women

    or perhaps he gets rude… perhaps he says… I told you not to pull that psychobablly on me…

    you say: This feels awful. I do not have to lie to you. I feel totally unheard and furious (I might even add… ?I feel like destroying you).

    At this point CLICK the phone, leave the room, close his IM box, if you are feeling too furious and you think you’re gonna blow up. DO NOT ATTACK him. That really slows down your progress and will make you feel BAD later.

    expressing feeling messages will feel just as good and attacking. actually much better. As soon as you focus on YOU and how proud u are that you stuck to them and how YOU feel, instead of focusing on his response.

    (as you get better at the feeling message… just ONE in the moment is even a big baby step… then to lean back, do NOT anticipate his answer as much as you can, be surprised… aniticipating what hes gonna say, he can read that off your vibe and body language and hes likely to respond taht way… so don’t worry about what he says… let him worry about that… you just focus on YOUR responseto him, according to how you FEEL. And do your best to keep your response to “I feel…” and “I don’t want…”

    (NOT I want)

    You can even try a one liner. I feel angry! CLICK.

    thats how I started.

  123.  #123No Bliss on September 2, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    I talk to him last night,

    I said It felt good to receive an email from him,
    I felt humiliated
    I don’t want to be part of or see his communications with other woman.


    his reply.

    I am sorry didn’t mean to upset you…
    that woman emailed me , like the funny things she sent and really tought you could enjoy a laugh at work.

  124.  #124Flipper on September 2, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    From there, does this correspond to how you felt: “I don’t feel heard. ” ? Can you see yourself feeling okay with just ending the convo at this point?

  125.  #125No Bliss on September 2, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    no i didn’t feel good,
    i wanted to say lots more, but i knew he would not listen or half listen and it will be a lost cause.

    that was a start..

  126.  #126Flipper on September 2, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    Definitely, a great start! I feel it was more than enough, and if it were me, I’d feel something good about myself for saying that much, so clearly and simply, (even tho I wouldn’t actually feel happy about having to say it nor getting an unsatisfactory answer in return). And now I’d like this ‘good’ feeling not to stop, so I wouldn’t want to ruin it by starting in again thinking “he… he… he…” Time for Me Me Me.

  127.  #127No Bliss on September 5, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    It was a good start, he was being very normal for the first time in 3 years.

    Been throwing comments here and there about family trips, christmas, being together , dirty weekends. etc ..

    Last night he said he couldn’t sleep had a bad feeling in his stomach, last time he had that he left..

  128.  #128Lin on September 6, 2009 at 11:37 am

    No Bliss,
    How did you feel about this? What feelings did you share with him. ?

  129.  #129No Biss on September 7, 2009 at 8:45 am

    I felt connned again
    I felt here we go again
    I feel he’s playing some game or had a no intention
    of working things out..

    I did ask, and he said he just had a horrible feeling in his stomach..

    I asked was there anything he needed to share with me or get off his chest..

    his reply no – its about you ..

    its a feeling .

    i am still none the wiser..

  130.  #130Lin on September 8, 2009 at 7:56 am

    No Bliss,
    Please go back to Rori’s first message to you.
    Read this over and over again…..
    Its so important in your relationship with your husband… to share your feeling with him.
    by being afraid… to express yourself.. will kill the chances you have to have a good relationship with him…!!! No, you can not be afraid to speak your truth to him. So what if he leaves… so what if he stays away.. !!!
    I feel your bottling up all your frustration.. and you will explode… and then he will say….
    see she is not workable… !!!
    Softly tell him… how you feel … how you want your relationship to be with him…
    get it all out… and then ask him what he thinks. What he does at that point… is up to him. and you must be willing to let him go.
    At this point.. what are you losing. ?
    We are here for you.

  131.  #131No Bliss on September 10, 2009 at 7:44 am

    Hi all,

    Having a bad day,

    I wear contacts and glasses.. I need new glasses, time for a new pair to give me a lift.
    I wanted someone’s opinon, so i asked him when had some free time to come down to the Optom and help me out,., I had aldready picked out 2 pairs I liked, but was hoping that if they didn’t suit we could look at other.
    Again i am a fool, i tried on the 2 pairs and he didn’t like either, then walked off and proceed to look at all the sunglasses and discuss with the sales lady what he needed. I was left standing on the otherside of the shop, looking at glasses by myself.
    I felt – i can’t even explain..
    I was holding back the tears, we left , i told him how i felt, as best i could .
    I am not good at putting my feelings into words,
    But i have it ago..
    I feel let down, I felt kind of rejected or not important, we were there for me, to pick new glassses not him, but he turned it around to be about him..
    I said, I am also very tired these 12 hrs night shifts are knocking me around, 60hrs a week is hard work, I need more help, i am only getting 2 hrs sleep per day..

    he walked away. went back to work.
    sent text messages from then ,
    silly sorry messages
    sorry for not helping
    sorry for not being supportive
    sorry i work allot
    sorry i am lazy
    sorry not everythng is about you
    sorry i wanted to look at glasses too,
    sorry i used up your time to look at glasses
    sorry i should dote on you more
    by the way you only wanted me to look at the 2 pair of glasses you chose, not got thru the whole shop.. be more specific next time.


    he drops by the house , advises he just pulled out of a huge business meeting, took the kids to their after school sports, and said, now i have done this be appreciative and thank me, and get some sleep. be in bed by the time we get back.

    I feel just flattened by all of this..

    My come back to all of this was delayed.

    I just wanted to express how I felt at the optom, all i wanted was someone’s opinion, to pick some really nice glasses .. and look what happened..

    there was a lead up to all of this.. but thats another story.
    Men and their secret plans, and i got a heads up from one of the wives..

  132.  #132No Bliss on September 10, 2009 at 7:45 am

    sorry i wrote allot, i have never felt so blaaaaa

    maybe cause i am tired !

  133.  #133Daria on September 11, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    No Bliss –

    Great job delivering your feelings!!!

    I would say that if you want more help around the house (and gosh it sounds like I DEFINITELY would)… to speak to him about it…

    ie… “I’m feeling totally overwhelmed. I don’t want to work so many hours and watch the kids as well… WHAT DO YOU THINK?” then see what he says… and reply with more feeling messages and I don’t wants…

    In response to his texts, I personally would have said… thank you for the apology, some of this doesn’t feel good.
    (and let him respond to it… because from the sorry its not all about you (I feel so angry hearing that) on the messages are making me feel very angry, they seem sarcastic)

    Please don’t go into “men and their secret plans” mode, men are humans and judging them will hurt You.

    When he did pick up the kids and left an important meeting you MUST express appreciation. Express appreciation for every little even tiny good thing he does, Rori says even washing a plate. A simple “Thank You” or “Oh I feel so glad… etc” will do.

    He asked you to get some sleep because you were obviously tired… perhaps there is a way to find a job that is not requiring you to work 60 hours a week with kids also?? Even with a man in the house pulling his full weight, that is an Enormous amount of hours and would feel VERY Overwhelming to me (plus kids!).

  134.  #134No Bliss on September 13, 2009 at 5:21 am

    Thanks Daria.

    you are right.. i miss the little things like that. all the time. I find it hard to sometimes thank when its done without good reasons..

    he’s away now.. for a week.

    it will be good to be apart for a while.. need the break, not that we are spending any time together..

    I feel lonely even though he’s here..

    I drove him to hte airport tonight, and he was saying
    i hate sundays, they used to be good when i lived elsewhere , they were mine, goto the pub relax, watch sport have a beer ..


    kids, mess , organise school stuff, washing iron,
    school lunches etc..

    I didn’t know how to comment on that.

    I gather he’s hinting that he wants out again..

    part of a family life is those horrible days when we have to do all that stuff..

    I love you guys .. for helping me out so much thanks ..

    I have a very dear friend visiting at the moment – she has her bub with her ( her 1st) ..
    its great seeing her , she lives O/S ..

    bub was upset today really really really upset screaming ,he just didn’t want dinner .. and she was making bub sit in highchair and eat.. finally she came in the kitchen with bub and said to me he’s not going to win , he will eat ..

    I just nicely said. .some days we don’t even feel like dinner . maybe and i didn’t get to say anymore.. and she yelled at me to stop telling her what do to with her bub, and she knows whats she’s doing…

    I was offended ,. my feelings hurt..

    as earlier in the afternoon one of my other friends was visiting with her 3 kids, and they were all downs stairs chatting . and she was accepting all sorts of advice from my friend .. but i can not say a thing..

    it makes me feel that everyone looks at me, as though , i am not smart ,. my opinion or advice is worthless.

    So if thats the case, then they must not think much of my kids.

  135.  #135No Bliss on September 16, 2009 at 2:51 am

    What a day
    what a week.
    things go good for a day then turn bad,

    I feel its me
    I am the route of all my problems
    I feel so disheartened by all.
    I feel really sad
    I am sick of being yelled at by friends family,
    i am sick of being ignored, not listened to.. people get
    bored or sick of my company after 2 mins.

    see it is me..

    I may look ok, but after today conversations with people i am boring , not fun, they perfer other peoples company,, they like me but other people aren;t exhausting to be around, they feed and frenzy on their fun outgoing charms..

    i am boring you as well..
    i was enjoying all your help.
    but i looks like i have bored you all as well..

    see no blilss suits

  136.  #136Daria on September 16, 2009 at 3:24 am

    No bliss please post under the most current page on the front page so we can more easily see your posts! Thanks!

  137.  #137Flipper on September 16, 2009 at 5:42 am

    Bliss – it’s Not you that’s all bad, wrong etc. (could you believe such a thing about one of your kids, however much trouble they were causing or feeling?) When I read what you describe about your man, I feel ‘abuse’. A basic tactic of abusers is to turn everything around: they react badly to things that are good or neutral; they insinuate and blame, often vaguely, counting on their victim to fill in the details and self-incriminate; cultivate confusion by going hot and cold, claiming that wherever they coming from is good, and the other is wrong and brings them down. They make us crazy and then feel a little better about themselves compared to the ‘mess’ were in (which they set up, even if in the end it’s cuz we’ve allowed it) – that is, for a short time till they need another fix.

    I hear your real self screaming out the truth ‘I am innocent’, ‘I only want and intend doing good’, “My feelings are important’. I hear your Nasty Voices siding with only negative opinions and amplifying them. Take their megaphone away, sit them down and say tho’ they seem to think they’re guiding you on, they are not speaking from TRUTH and they are confused about your real interests. Thank them for trying, and then say how you’ll all feel better when You take charge and give out gentle encouragement, compliments and loving hugs to yourself.

    As for your friend not being able to ‘hear’ you in the advice incident: when we are feeling emotionally drowned, we are not receptive to advice or ‘rational’ feedback. Hence when your friend was relaxed and chatting amicably, she could hear the other woman’s comments. When she was in direct conflict with her child, feeling frustrated and probably but unadmittedly angry with him, she could not be receptive to the kind of help you were offering.

    What to do in these cases? Often showing empathy by just naming or describing what the other person is feeling: ‘Wow, I see you’re really upset/feeling overwhelmed right now, poor girl’ and leave it at that. No ‘Don’t worry, he’ll grow out of it’, or Be patient, you’ll get a handle on this stuff, much less ‘you’re doing this all wrong’ or ‘I’m shocked by your attitude’. Once they’ve calmed down and are feeling better, it may be possible to broach the subject in a constructive way.

    This same kind of thing – getting triggered by something that sends our feelings into a tailspin and then feeling bad, guilty, or beating ourselves up about it – happens within us, and what Rori is teaching us is how to handle it so that good will come of it and we don’t become our own best enemy or clueless friend. So we empathize with ourselves and love All our own feelings, however distressing. We name them and follow them around in our body and heart, give them their due by tasting the bitter soup. And when they’ve been heard and dissipate, there’s room to accept our own good advice. We see clearly that someone else’s unacceptable behavior and twisted words are theirs, Not accurate reflections of ourselves.

    Look up abuse, Bliss – you may be as surprised as I felt about all the ‘Good Guy’ abuse there is. And the only remedy has nothing to do with fixing them – it’s standing up for ourselves, in the very way Rori teaches us.

    Lots of hugs, sweet, strong getting-to-Bliss, to help tide you through the soup and welcome you back to the clear air on the other side.

  138.  #138Noosh on October 6, 2009 at 3:53 am

    Hi everyone,

    I have been reading this blog for months now as I have been dealing with my own relationship. You are all very beautiful and powerful woman and I have learned from reading your posts. My background I came out of a 8 year relationship over 3 years ago. Although not married this was very much a divorce and emotionally I was at rock bottom. I then had a rebound fling and took off overseas to the other side of the world. In six weeks of being in my new country I met the man of my dreams (so I thought). He was the same profession as me and I loved him dearly. We were together for 23 months and we had so much fun together. We were extremely compatable and travelled the world together. We spoke about everything expect one critical aspect why he could not love. He had some drug issues when he was young and has never been able to love. He is very protected and put up so many walls. I thought I could deal with this but the relationship never evolved and I became increasingly frustrated and hurt. I desperately needed to hear those three little words and they never came. He ended it on the weekend due to the frustration he was sensing from me and I agreed it was the right decision. I am heartbroken as for some reason I thought I was enough. For some reason I thought we would grow together. He has told me ‘he can not give me what I want’. He is correct he can not. But now I just feel empty and lost. No matter what he was my best friend and we had lots of mutual friends. The loss I am feeling is unbelievable, we created a new life together in this new country and once again I find myself picking up the pieces. It has been 2 days without contact and I feel so hurt that he can just go on without checking on me. I feel I need to move past this but after 2 severe breakups I do not feel I have the energy to keep trying. I can not help thinking that there is something wrong with me to have experienced such love from my side and hurt. I do want to contact him but feel that it would be healthier to let this one go. I just need some support. I feel so alone.

  139.  #139Rori Raye on October 7, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Noosh, Welcome, and I’m so sorry for your pain. You have a “mode.” And that mode, that pattern, is to be with men who cannot give you the fullness of what you want. Many, many women are devastatingly attracted to gay men. They may even TELL the woman they’re gay, or bisexual…or be living a double life. And these women simply cannot understand why that means he can’t love them.

    You are unable to understand that when is man is so “protected” and “puts up walls,” and you do not SPEAK about this to each other…that means he’s NOT able to do a relationship with you. It also means you are unable to be yourself and ask what’s going on because of your fear of losing a man. These are things you can FIX!!! This is all inside YOU!!! Stop LOOKING for a man, and work on loving yourself and getting some “radar” about men who aren’t able…or simply will never WANT to….Love, Rori

  140.  #140No Bliss on October 10, 2009 at 4:57 am

    Hi Noosh,

    Wow , I wished we closed by, you sound like you need a hug. I really do understand what you are going thru, at least you have to courage to walk away..

    I have no self esteem or respect for myself, as I let him treat me so poorly.

    I don’t know why I do, but it happens. I am still go back for more.. One of my new friends who has watched me be treated so badly since I moved here 3 years ago, says she doesn’t think she can be friends with me if i ever work things out with him..

    that really hurt, she has never know him for the nice guy that he can be, but only this pig of a man, who told me yesterday, that he’s happy for us to be together, same ol’ stuff,

    ask no questions,
    keep my mouth shut,
    don’t question his outings
    don’t expect to go out with him, i am not welcome.
    he goes out to social with other people not me.
    always be happy,
    and if you are having a bad day, before you walk in the house make sure you get the shit off your liver before you walk in the house.
    don’t ever make a fool of myself in front of the few friends of his i am allowed to meet and socialize with.
    he’s allowed to have many woman friends and go out with them, stay at their places or mates place and not come home after a night on the town.
    Not take me to any parties he’s invited to, not even
    a work function.

    if i want this this to i have to accept his for who he is , all of the above and more, and i have to change and be more happy and care free, and do my own thing,


    I am a fool, as i can even see how bad, i am being treated, when i write this down, like my friend said, its as bad as being hit by him every day. but its all emotional.

    Why I ask myself do I put up with it,
    I have know idea.. its sad. that i do, and my kids he is good to the kids.

    But as i type this , he is down stairs for the 10th night in a row, on FB or some other chat site.. he is not cable of even chatting to me, we have not had a conversation for a month.

    I sometimes think that i need some strong person to really slap me , and make me leave and wrap up all the crap that goes with a separation, sort out the custody.. cause as I do not think i am strong enough to walk away..

    I need something.
    friends that don’t tell me they aren’t going to be my friends anymore, but ones that – i really don’t know.

    I feel for you, I feel sick to my stomach when they don’t talk or text, for two let alone a week, which i go thru all the time. He does it all the time,

    Lots of hugs and love being sent your way.. i hope you are stronger that I am, and get thru this, and find your way to true happiness..

    thinking of you..
    take care

    No Bliss

  141.  #141Noosh on October 22, 2009 at 6:59 am

    Hi No Bliss,

    I think you should be strong and walk away. It has been 3 weeks now and I am still hurting but being as strong as I can be. We have had contact, bad contact, too emotional at the moment. I have now realised I sat around and waited for him. He had me sitting so he did not care. He had all the time in the world. Well now he does not. Now I am gone. I still hope that he comes back but he has to come back. I can not control this – Rori is right. I will get on with my life and if he decides I am the one then he will come back. Time will tell but I will no longer be a doormat. You can not move on whilst you stay, as sad and horrible as I feel right now it is better than feeling unloved and unappreciated. I realised just recently sometimes in my relationship I felt alone. If I am going to feel alone in a relationship I might as well be alone at least then I have the power to change my destiny. No Bliss let him go you deserve to feel better. Trust me it is better to know the hurt will fade than wait for man that just wont give us what we want. I do hope he realises but in the end I am moving forward. I will not contact him again and if wants anythign to do with me he will contact me. If not it was not worth it. Kisses and hugs to you No Bliss. We can get through this together 🙂

  142.  #142devoted couple on November 30, 2009 at 7:55 am

    Attn. Rori,
    Many of these that we keep reading is sounding like repeatedly running away. Walking away to even some arguments is sometimes an answer but not the complete solution. Married couples make vows in churches to keep and vows are extremely difficult to just drop and go on. Abuse is not acceptable either; counseling just takes the two back to relive/review what led them there, too. Two yearning to want to stop fighting or even any negative acts that they are living is what needs to be found, but sometimes many are wondering where or how do we begin? Yes, one must begin with “self” but guidance is needed, for family cannot be temporarily pushed aside. There are daily battles or complete silence which when reconnecting again explosions take place; prayers are made; walks are taken; there is no drug/alcohol addiction; financial problem- yes; searching for advisive help is endless. Help!

  143.  #143Rori Raye on November 30, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Welcome, devoted couple – do you have a specific scenario I can work with? What we’re dealing here mostly is with men who are NOT willing to work together at marriages and relationships – who’ve lost their motivation to do so, and their attraction to us fades with unexpressed feelings – especially anger – stuck under the surface. Most of us work way too hard to engage men in conversation – and the first key to changing things is to stop doing that – therefore – walking away from dead-end and abusive and neglectful behavior is the way to go. Love, Rori

  144.  #144Sylver on December 27, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    I have just recently found this blog and this thread. A little over a year ago, my now ex-husband said he no longer wanted to be married to me. We had ben married 16 years, lived together for 3 years, and dated for a year before that. I was devastated. There had been no fighting, but he had grown more distant over the previous several months. I discovered he was having an online affair with a woman from a different country. When I confronted him about it, he stated he no longer loved me and hadn’t loved me for quite a while. That was August 2008. We continued living together while I packed and made arrangements to move. Packing took a long time as I have a ceramic business/hobby, and have over 1500 molds and other supplies to pack. I moved to a nearby town where my place of employment is located. Our 15 year old son chose to come with me. We lived in a mobile home, which was in my name, but on land he inherited from his family. Since he couldn’t afford to buy the mobile home from me, I moved it and am currently living in it with our son. My ex husband has not seen our son since October of 2008, does not call…
    So I don’t really have to deal with him. I did find out that the woman from the other country, who is also married and has children, stayed with him for almost a month this past August.
    I was married for 9 years before him to an abusive alcoholic man, so being single is a big switch for me.
    I have been dating a man since Feb. 2009 and have been having a lot of fun with him. I have friends, and have been doing a lot of the things that seemed to be right for me, and discovered that some of what I did is what Rori suggests. But with the holidays here, I find myself really missing what I thought I had–a great marriage with someone I loved–and I thought he loved me. Even though I know that it wasn’t real, I still mourn the loss of my old life.
    The man I’m dating has been great in a lot of ways, building up my confidence and showing me around, as my ex and I had recently moved from another state. I guess I should date some other people, and I need to learn more about Circular Dating. I’ve never really dated more than one man at a time, so that idea is pretty foreign to me. There is no committment in my current relationship, and right now that is fine with me and I think with him also.
    Good luck to everyone here. I don’t really have any concrete questions, but thank you for letting me share.

  145.  #145Rori Raye on December 30, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Sylver – Welcome, and Thank you for your story – we’ll help you with Circular Dating, and I look forward to hearing more from you. Love, Rori

  146.  #146Sylver on December 30, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Thank you.

  147.  #147Ingrid on April 9, 2010 at 8:27 am

    Hello “No Bliss”:

    I just was browsing on the marriage place and found your thread.

    I was wondering how you are doing today if you’re still here? Are you???? I’d love to hear from you if you are……..

    At the time you posted I was separated from my hubby of 20 years ((again)) 4th time in 2 years. So often now I cannot even remember the months we were together and the months we were separated, but I remember last summer, we were separated for 6 or 7 months, (of hell). I wish I was here for you then, as I was going through the same as you then.

    I also have been married for over 20 years and have teenaged kids. I feel there is much more to consider here than maybe some single gals, as we have kids and a family that we’ve made a life with, and established a “family unit” with. Our scenarios may be somewhat different, but then the same as what we, women, face.

    God Bless U

  148.  #148Bliss on April 10, 2010 at 5:01 am

    Hi Ingrid,

    Wow, you found my old post.. I changed my name to Bliss, everyone thoguht it was a better name.

    I am doing better, things are still everywhere,
    but i am feeling more, and venting and letting happening.

    thank you for your kind words., it is very hard to go thru what we have or are going thru, and its so nice to have people understand. i found this site was my saviour, and beautiful ladies like you.

    How are you doing….

  149.  #149sia on April 10, 2010 at 5:39 am

    hi ingrid,

    i did not notice it before in your posts, you wrote about the word bitch in pink chalk.. Wow so extreme! I really don’t know what to say. I have not been married.. That lands the same with me as a slap in the face. Did your counsellor address this?????

    There are many women who stay in physically abusive relationships long time..Was there any other emotional abuse?

    I know of a person who had personality change due to illness. Is your husband healthy?

    I hope you can find some work which would make you happy, i wish it so much for you…

  150.  #150Terri on July 2, 2010 at 7:59 am

    I can totally see where Bliss is coming from. I have been married for 28 years and my husband started seeing another younger woman. Same thing, if I complained, I was the bad guy, pushing him away. I put up with this for 15 months. Begging, pleading, negotiating, all of it. Yesterday, I told him I was leaving him. Suddenly he has decided he loves me and doesn’t want this other woman. Unfortunately, the pain and anguish has been so total and for so long I am not sure I want him anymore. He feels that because my vibe has definitely changed. We will see. I want counseling, I deserve better and I told him that.

  151.  #151Rori Raye on July 3, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Terri – BRAVA!!! You finally discovered that you’re a fabulous woman who doesn’t need to ‘struggle” against something like this…you have the power to walk away, and so now you have the power to work through your own triggering and discover what you really want and if he can give it to you without your begging – or having to do ANYTHING. You don’t have to “make do” with ANYTHING…Love, Rori

  152.  #152Bliss on July 4, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    D day ( decision day has come and gone)

    I feel the ball is in my court now

    make it or break it.

    he won’t decide anything, he doesn’t care what happens, together or not. shame crap just another day.

    so if i want to change it all i have to make all the decisions.

    life is full of too many challenges for anyone to be happy he says

  153.  #153dorothea on July 4, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    thanks for updating us bliss. i feel unsure what to say…

  154.  #154Bliss on July 4, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    thats ok,
    I have no idea what to do ?

  155.  #155monica on July 31, 2010 at 7:49 am

    Wow! This is so similar to my situation. He left me emotionally (we still live under the same roof and still married) while I was 5 mos. pregnant. And he has been dangling me ever since (my baby will turn 9 mos in a week!) “daring me to start something” And have I!!! Oh the drama! I am so embarassed at my begging and shameful behavior. But no more. Im for circular dating. I also bought targeting mr. right. Modern siren is next. I cant wait for my package to get here!!! Thank you!

  156.  #156monica on July 31, 2010 at 8:24 am

    I think this situation is common in long term relationships. We have been together a total of 10 yrs. And married in 2007. This is our first child. And I have panicked. I feel so much better knowing I can leave and I dont have to be alone forever! I have options. I felt that I didnt have any options. I was so afraid. I didnt want to divorce(failure). I have been acting so desperate. I have been acting like a crazy woman! I feels so calm knowing that with or without him Im going to be fine! He is already changing in 1 day!!!! I havent even received my dvds yet. I AM SO EXCITED! I have been in pain for so long…. the things I went through while pregnant. I am ready to work on myself. Im not even sure if I still want him. I want someone who is capable or treating me like a goddess. And he may not be the one. My pride was so hurt by him getting another woman… im not even sure if I love him anymore. So thank God he didnt come back or I would never have embarked on this journey Im about to take.

  157.  #157Rori Raye on July 31, 2010 at 11:02 am

    monica, Welcome and Brava to you for taking this new road that will work for you! As soon as YOU stop the drama and learn to talk in a heartfelt way…everything will shift…Love, Rori

  158.  #158Sylver on August 28, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Monica Says ” I felt that I didnt have any options. I was so afraid. I didnt want to divorce(failure).”
    “My pride was so hurt by him getting another woman… ”

    I can totally relate to this. Hope you’re doing well.

  159.  #159Bliss on October 5, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Hi everyone

    wow its been so long since i have visited here.

    i did it,
    I have a life
    I am happy
    I and having fun
    I am not angry
    I am calm
    I am rational
    I am beautiful
    I have a new hobby
    I Love Arbonne

    I love Rori for showing me the right way – I know it took me a while and you gave up on me, but

    I did it..

    thank you..
    To everyone that offered help and support thank you, i was a mess and could not have made it this far without you all.

    Bless you all !!!!

  160.  #160heather on February 1, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    why do these,and i mean all soon to be exes,always include “if he wants me and his kids” he never leaves his childrens love just the wife!!

  161.  #161sandra on April 14, 2011 at 4:35 am

    I recently saw a testimony about a spell caster of some sort in a blog I visit for relationship and marriage counselling problems and I just thought after ripped off the previous year of almost about $580, I should try it*maybe out of desperation of some sort*..and I contacted them..Atfirst everything felt dreamy and unbelievable,their consultations and solution was a little bit easy and strange and I was scared a little cos I heard read and heard lots of stories of fake spell casters and scammers ripping people off their money..I played along with a little hope and and faith and I was sent some few stuffs after everything and it worked like a miracle,everything went to a while new direction,it was and is amazing…I guess it was all good faith that made me read That particular post that faithful day..I hope they could help other people too like they did me…I did a little and I got everything I wanted and wished for*my husband,my family and my life back*their address is;

  162.  #162Francesca on July 30, 2011 at 12:20 am

    Dear Rori,
    it’s a few months that I’m reading what you have to say, and it have been great for me. I am married since 6 years, there were a lot of problems, and finally my husband left the country to visit his family, staying away 7 months.
    Now, he’s coming back and says that he doesn’t feel me as a wife, but still wants us to be friends, visit me, be in my life, (and in our daughter’s, of course) – he also said he was willing to come with us to the wedding of my brother in Italy, where he would meet my parents for the first time … as a husband, yes he’s ok with that (strange as it seems, he never met them before, because they didn’t accept my marriage with him).
    I feel some energies between us, and I think that he is very scared from all the problems that we had in the past, that took us to many and many fights. He told me that the idea to start again and having again problems, like in the past, keeps him from trying again – he doesn’t take in account the possibility to have a ‘new’ marriage, a simple bright relaxed relationship.
    What should I do now? Can I give time to the time, let my energy expand and wait that he realizes by himself that we are good together? Can I call him, invite him at home to spend time with us – my daughter is 6, so being together is better than leaving him to take her somewhere, even because he lives in a hostel, and doesn’t have a job-, and to do something me and him, sometimes, or it’s better leaving him the inintiative?
    He is feminine energy, mostly, and I am an Enneagram type 5, so maybe I don’t let transpire my feeling very easily (maybe: my 4 wing is very strong, also).
    I’m thinking a lot about all the situation, and I’d really love to hear a comment from you, and advice. Please answer me, I really need a friend voice.

  163.  #163Jojo on August 28, 2011 at 11:22 am

    How do you circular date when you’re married but going through a separation? I’m not interested in relationships with other men, but I understand the importance of not focusing on my husband while I get my life together.