Amazing Articles By Rabbi Shmuley

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lovebirdsI came across these articles by Rabbi Shmuley by accident – and instantly felt “GOT.”

I have never read anything like this from a man, and am in touch with him to get an interview and help from him around this situation.


Here are the articles:’-libidos/


Here’s what I wrote to the Rabbi:

“Dear Rabbi Shmuley, my name is Rori Raye, I’m a relationship “expert” for women with a huge following all over the world – and suddenly, somehow, came upon these articles of yours.

These are the most powerful statements I’ve ever read by a man (or anyone) about what I experience as epidemic among the women I talk to.

And I noticed all the comments below the article were trash talk.

If you know of any articles, friends or experts who would like to help me address how a man – a good man who wants to please his wife and be happy – might be helped by a woman (or another man) to undo this enormously damaging “syndrome,” I would like to publish the information, and perhaps interview someone who’d like to speak to my readership.

The way you’ve written this – it would be hard for any man to hear – and I would love to talk about a solution.

I believe this is the bottom line of cheating and divorce in all ranges of communities.

When I read your article, I could feel intense emotion and “aha” moments bubbling up – and I felt “got” as a woman.

I know many, many woman would feel the same way.

On the other side – so many of us women are so afraid of the power of our own sexuality, we happily comply with a man’s subconscious fear.

Thus the comments.

Thank you, Rori Raye

Note from Rori:

I’ve just downloaded his books “Kosher Lust”…and “Broken Male”… I’ll let you know what I think…

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on January 5, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Thank you

  2.  #2a woman on January 5, 2015 at 11:22 am

    My new observation: for some reason it’s easier for me to be myself and be confident, fun etc,. with friends AND the men I feel attracted to, the men I like that I know or the men I like that are strangers, or even the women I like but are strangers. But when it comes to neutral strangers, neutral work colleagues or bosses, just generally neutral people I don’t share that warm connection with- I feel like I owe something to them. I feel small, my insecurities come to the surface, sometimes even my voice gets weird. If they look at me I get nervous, I feel guilty if I don’t say hello to them or feel obligated to say something. I shut down as well. I absolutely shut down…

    I’m not sure why is it happening as I’m actually super confident.. I’m guessing I only can be myself with the people I feel I can or could relate with. But I want to be me with everybody.

    Has anyone has any thoughts why I’m this way and how to deal with it?

    Love x

  3.  #3Victoria on January 5, 2015 at 11:43 am

    I read the articles, and my feeling is somewhere between very unimpressed and slightly triggered. I strongly dislike the way most religions look at women and their secondary role to men. Men is the subject, and woman is the object. I do not find it helpful,
    I find it annoying. A also feel the rabi has no idea about female sexuality for two basic reasons
    1) he is male
    2) he comes from the premise that sexuality needs to be sanctioned by religion.
    I guess this is why I am fully unreligious.

  4.  #4Femininewoman on January 5, 2015 at 11:44 am

    What enlightening articles!!

  5.  #5kate on January 5, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Oh my G0d. Brilliant. I am completely non-religious and I found this to be so striking; it is like this man read my diary. If I kept a diary. And if I were as articulate as he is.

  6.  #6IamHis on January 5, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    I even have this theory that men want their wives to be unnaturally skinny as a way to keep them weak, small, and to control them.

  7.  #7Andrea on January 5, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    I have to admit that the first article scares me. I feel a subconscious dread alongside a deep inner knowing, that this very phenomena is what has what has blocked me all these years from desiring marriage.
    I watched, with out being able to put words to what I was seeing, my mom get “smooshed” by step dad in this very way. He, being a very religious man, used “God’s Will” and his god given authority to squelch the witty, creative, dancing, bubbly woman that I remembered my mom being before my step dad came on the scene.
    I watched this very thing happen to my older sister as well. I begged her not to get married at the age of 21 when she decided to marry another very religious man who was 11 years her senior. And I watched her become.. yes, subdued, domesticated.
    I had no idea, but it was exactly as the Rabbi described it. And secretly, subconsciously, this is at the deepest heart of all of my fears when it comes to the idea of marriage.
    This is why I push close men away, and become attached to men who are distant and unavailable. I want to experience marriage, but deep inside… THIS.. what was described in the article.. is what I’ve always “known” marriage would be like for me.
    I almost feel like I will have to “resign” myself to this if I’m ever to be able to open up to marriage.

    Wow! Rori, I feel so appreciative of your letter to him. Yes, I want a solution. I don’t want for this to by my fate. I’m 41 and have been more afraid of marriage than looking forward to it.

    I really would like to have a different picture to hope for.

  8.  #8Zia on January 5, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Loved these!!!

  9.  #9Zia on January 5, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    In a couple of weeks, it is my one year anniversary with my guy. I adore him and I feel adored by him, and so does my son. This time last year I had no idea that what lied ahead. Feeling so happy 🙂

  10.  #10Victoria on January 5, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    So, I saw F. yesterday, we had a nice date. No fixing for our next date. We also talked on the phone, no fixing either. I was soft loving and inviting. He sent me an email at 2 this morning asking to see me today. I already made otherplans so i will refuse. I am thinking it is my fault that i have not fixed this as a stong boundary. The thing is, i so much love spending time with him, and i dont mind last minute except for when i have to reject him.
    I need to think do i want to reinstate this boundary… but i love the spontaneity, i love it
    When he calls and says i need to see you so badly right now and i love the passion i feel that makes me drop everything else and just run to him. I guess it is all my making. Oh

  11.  #11nyx on January 6, 2015 at 1:59 am

    I’ve seen several men do this- make their passionated (not only about sex, about life, interests, women very much glowing and alive) women boring and burdened. I always wondered why they would do this- especially about one woman, my ex’s mother, abused by her husband… thinking “He must’ve been drawn to her because of her passion- why is he taking it away from her? Or was he drawn to the possibility to show his ability to change and extinguish this glow?”

    He was a very nondescript man himself, with no charisma whatsoever, no looks, not much of any career (want to add I don’t care much about people’s careers, but in society, it is quite a status marker) and I think the Rabbi is correct: he felt fear. She attracted men and women like flies to honey, haha. Of course he was scared- and envious too, not only jealous. She was very fun to be around, always attracting attention, always so warm. Also an entrepreneur. If he had known her, he would have known she was also extremely faithful. No need to feel scared. But the envy and the jealousy could still be there of course.
    Anyways, she used to have all this VERY strong and vibrant charisma before she married him. And she got it all back quite quickly after she divorced him. 🙂

    The sad thing in this is: I think many really good men has this inside them as well. I have first-hand experience. This woman’s son… this phenomena put into words by the Rabbi- yes, very useful. It is now pinpointed down, and I can use this in future relationships, to identify and bring it up while it is small, making it possible to turn before the relationship crashes and the good man- and I quote- says afterwards: “I do not know what happened to me. I think I became jealous. And yet, I knew there was nothing for me to be jealous of- you would never do anything with another man… ” “I always knew you were more intelligent than me- I just never knew it was this much”.
    My husband, who I divorced after 11,5 years, because after more than 10 happy years his personality changed totally and he became aggressive. This happened in connection with me losing weight, caring for my looks and starting at uni…

    Rori- I definitely think you should use this to create useful material for men and women. Let me know if my story may help.

  12.  #12Noquay on January 6, 2015 at 5:24 am

    When any man, regardless of how good he looks, de-values, disrespects me, tries to subdue me in any way, I am outta there. However, if I feel valued, respected, I stick around. The Rabbi is spot on.

  13.  #13IamHis on January 6, 2015 at 6:51 am

    ((((Andrea)))) – I so feel for you, & feel so connected to your fears. Getting married requires courage, a brave and secure man and woman, & I find great courage knowing that there is no fear in perfect love.

    A great book about authenticity, “religion” in marriage, divorce, and the importance of being completely genuine is the book, “The Myth of the Submissive Christian Woman.”

    I highly recommend it. 🙂

  14.  #14turquoise on January 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    I only read the second article, but yes yes yes! Exactly right. I want to feel chosen. Not just loved, but that you choose to spend time with me. You choose me over other things.

    This also gave me some insight to talk to my daughter. She’s 14 and just like this, I can say she’s perfect, she rolls her eyes, she wants that attention from a boy, and she said it… not related, makes her feel special.

  15.  #15a woman on January 6, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    I have decided to have a week of personal make over, I wanna go out of my comfort zone and never be the same again.

    One thing I really want to experiment with is my sexuality. I have a pretty face that is making men stare at me, but they only stare, rarely approach me and almost never ask for my phone number and I feel boring. I am muslim and been thought how to be a nice, modest girl,

    I want to use my body, move in a sexy way, have sexy body language, tease men a little without over doing it. I feel triggered by two things: I fear to overdo and seem slutty. I start fearing others opinions and being criticized behind back. Then I ask myself: Is it even a bad thing? Who cares?! A diva wouldn’t care!

    I wanna experiment being a seductress, will see how it feels and how it works for me.


  16.  #16Radlove on January 6, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    A Woman,

    15 – Experimenting with going outside your box sounds yummy! Go for it! How will you go about it? What will you do with your body? Where will you go to experiment?

  17.  #17Radlove on January 6, 2015 at 4:19 pm


    14 – Is that you? Are you the same Turquoise who lives in the same state as me?!

  18.  #18Radlove on January 6, 2015 at 4:24 pm


    #7 – Ewww! I feel turned off by men who treat women like servants and squelch their creativity and joy! Yuck! Never! I would rather stay single than be treated like that!

    My best friend, R, has a completely fresh view of women! He highly esteems them, and he thinks they are beautiful! He treats women with utmost respect! I am in love with him, and he doesn’t feel the same way. Nevertheless, he does love me as a friend, and we have known each other 7 years. We hang out a couple times a week, and we have almost daily contact. I will never settle for a man who views women as lower than this.

    I think if you find a similar man, your fears will melt away. It’s just a matter of finding the right man. Women have been suppressed for centuries, probably because men felt intimidated of them. It’s time for women to walk in the confidence of their infinite value.

  19.  #19Mistea1 on January 6, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    Yes I think the articles have much truth in them. I was married for 25 years to a man like in the first article. I remember he would tell me I should wear men’s shoes and pants from the thrift store. I was never complimented except for once when he thought I sang beautifully at a church service. By then I was so indoctrinated that I didn’t take it as a complement but as a warning and never sang again.

    Of course, I didn’t wear men’s clothing but very modest thrift store clothing and my husband was an university prof. and scientist.
    After about 20 years I was allowed to go to a faculty holiday get together. I was so shocked to see the looks on the everyones faces as I trailed into the house behind my husband. The men had a slightly stunned look on their faces. It soon became apparent that my husband had a very young looking attractive wife. It surprised me!

    I was out of there five years later after the last child left for college.

    Now I realize even at my much older age that I still have some sizzle left and keep getting told I am 20 years younger than I am. I am debating a relationship now for love, appreciation, and of course lust. Is there any one who still has a working body and brain in this age group? Hmm.

  20.  #20Mistea1 on January 6, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    A woman 15,
    Try thinking of it as a mindset and not necessarily a pretty face. Check out Rori’s tools. Best to you.

  21.  #21Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 5:44 am

    I enjoyed reading what you shared…

  22.  #22Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Rori I really enjoyed reading the articles. Very enlightening…
    How do we avoid this phenomenon?

  23.  #23Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 8:15 am

    I’ve realized a lot of men I see/meet online give the impression that they are very clumsy in dating and not suave or chivalrous at all…men in their 30-40s….they put out
    Minimum effort….feminine energy ….maybe they are waiting For me to make plans? But I dont. I feel bored by them and annoyed.
    I did meet one guy las week in person that was really interesting and we exchanged numbers. He hasn’t called me, and it’s ok…I’m still CDing and replying to other messages…

  24.  #24Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Some of these men have the most atrocious profile pics that make them look creepy, maybe they are creeps anyways I don’t know….
    Lack of insight? I see lots of juvenilistic pics with showing off tattoos, boozing, bare chests,lots of sports memerobilia, pics of their kids (what?! Why put them on a dating profile!?!?) and generally just really bad up close selfies….
    So hard to sift through these profiles sometimes…

  25.  #25Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Rori, I appreciate you getting in touch with the Rabbi. I’ve seen his show, and I can remember feeling relieved that he really seemed to hit the mark on dealing with the family as a whole system rather than focusing on the one seeming “problem” person. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you and he could create something amazing together that would really touch and inspire even more people than you already do?

    As for me…last night I experienced a confusing clusterf*ck of an evening with a guy I met last month. He invited me to dinner at his place, and though at first I felt uncomfortable with the idea, in my mind he is “friend” vibe, we met in community, so, in *my* mind (ha), it was going to meet and hang out with a new friend and talk some possible business.

    So when I got there, he was just hugging and hugging me. This is NOT unusual for me, as I have a whole community of touch-positive, very affectionate friends in other places. It felt great. I needed some affection. It was really sweet.
    Then…he just wouldn’t stop. I told him, I was feeling pressured and needed some space. So he went all the way across the room! I just let him…ok…I don’t want to try to control this ride…
    he came closer again. Then he was asking me, why I felt that way. If maybe a black man had done something to me in the past? (He’s black, I’m white.) At which point, d*mn it, it struck a nerve, because he looks very much like an ex from 20 years ago. I told him that and K said, “He broke your heart..” Then I started crying, my heart hurt, I didn’t even KNOW my heart still felt broken over that from so long ago. So he tries to comfort me. And omg do I freaking HATE it when people try to comfort me and give me a bunch of trite sayings and go on and on about it, when all I want is to just feel what I feel and let it pass.
    So, I’m feeling extremely vulnerable, and I’m feeling happy to be in touch with the pain that I didn’t know was there and feeling like, it’s rising to the surface to heal…and he is in my face, talking and talking and I’m just keeping my heart open and being as present with all of the everything as I can.
    Eventually, we were hugging and cuddling again.
    I decided, this is ok, I need this, it feels great, heartbeat to heartbeat, it’s good.
    Until he started subtly humping my leg, hahahah.
    I said, “K, you’re humping my leg.”
    K tried to play it off.
    I sat up.
    He just kept saying, over and over, “You’re beautiful, you’re gorgeous, I like you.”
    Over. and. Over.
    I told him, this feels really intense and overwhelming. I don’t want to feel this way, I came over to have dinner and talk business and I just want to get back to a lighter vibe and feeling more ease. I don’t know what to do.
    So, for a minute, he was playful, and got a lot of pillows and put them all around me and that was fun and felt like the vibe was changing.
    I stood up, and he locked on me again. 100% intensity. “Your’e beautiful.” Wanting to hug and hold me again.
    I’d had enough. Ok, I need to go. Right now. I need a re-set.
    I felt guilty, because this guy triggered some feelings in me and was sweet and kind and tender in the face of them (if a little clueless), and he held me after I cried, which I felt like, I needed at a deep level, to sort of re-wire my brain and body.
    At the same time, he couldn’t seem to stop messing with me. Ugh.
    So I left.
    But not before! He wanted to give me gifts from Africa! He apparently forgot or ignored the fact that we had gone through this before, that I had told him how much I appreciate the dashikis he offered and I would never wear them. So I just played along. I didn’t want to deal with a whole other conversation about it, I just received the gifts graciously and got the h3ll out of dodge.

    What a confusing mess.

    I got home, and was meditating on it, and asking, what was his message? And from deep within came cleansing tears…my heart is STILL healing, it felt absolutely ripped apart with TC and I broke up. *I* think 20 years is a ridiculous and embarrassing amount of time for a heart to heal, and yet there it was, raw and grieving last night. So I sank into it, cried, showered myself with love and compassion.

    I so totally don’t know what that was about.

  26.  #26Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Well, I just saw a post from Gay Hendricks about “entanglements” vs. “real relationships”, so there’s that…maybe just a funky entanglement because of the unhealed stuff over TC.
    Actually, that fits, and that is exactly what it felt, like. I felt “entangled”.

  27.  #27Veronica on January 7, 2015 at 9:00 am

    I really like these articles. And I like how Rori has responded to these articles. Fantastic!

  28.  #28Veronica on January 7, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Over the holidays it had come to the fore how sensitive I was becoming – I cannot live in a house that isn’t well-ventilated. I need to have air moving through, to feel coolness on my skin. I felt suffocated house-sitting in a home that wasn’t well-ventilated at all – air just did not move. I started feeling demoralised at some point. It was difficult to kiss Funny at times when I felt like I couldn’t breathe. I’m at home now and feel so much better that I can feel the air moving. Ah the fresh air that trees bring!

    And my anger about BM happenings has subsided and now little mendings are making their sweet selves known. Like: not choosing to be socially compliant at a wedding and instead just sitting with my ‘not wanting to get to know anyone’ feelings. I felt beautiful and my own. Like: to believe in my own loving.

  29.  #29a woman on January 7, 2015 at 10:19 am

    Radlove #16

    Today I worked on my posture. Was paying a very good notice and I found out that I tend to slouch especially when being alone or when I don’t feel comfortable. This is my task for today: to correct my posture. For tomorrow I’ve planned to work on how I carry myself. Will look for some tips online and will look up some tips on flirty body language as well. Will post about my plans for the other days later.

    Regarding where I’m going to practice- everywhere! Tomorrow is my day off so there are more possibilities, but my workplace is a good place as well- I’m meeting a lot of customers!

    Can’t wait to explore and see how being that way makes me feel about myself xx

  30.  #30Labbit on January 7, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Emerson — I think online dating is more complex in general, simply because you’re not face-to-face so it’s harder to read the other person. Your frustration is so relatable. I can remember talking with men online for what seemed like weeks on end with no date in sight, or men who’d plan a date vaguely but then never firm up, or even men who planned a date out in full but then didn’t confirm. It was beyond maddening at first, until I stopped seeing it as trying to meet these men or get the date and started seeing it as practice.

    I made it about practicing digging into myself, finding my feeling in that moment and sharing it with the guy I was talking to/chatting with. I felt much more relaxed this way…and then I could better tune into whether I felt like each man was worth continuing the conversation with or if it was clear I felt it was going nowhere. Because with some men those longer trails of conversations did turn into dates, once they felt my relaxation and relaxed themselves. But with others it was clear they just wanted a chatting buddy, or maybe naked photos. In my experience a man will show you exactly who he is within the first two months so long as you lean back — if you lean forward you project your desires onto him and may not see him for who he really is.

    I love that you say you feel bored — if I were you I’d share that with him! After awhile I started saying things, “I feel so burned out on texting” or “I’m feeling bored trading small talk emails back and forth.” Some men reacted negatively to it (they weren’t relationship candidates, clearly) but to my surprise a lot of men loved it! I can’t tell you how many times men started telling me, “Oh my god me too, want to meet up in person?”

    Men face their own set of challenges — each woman has her own set of ‘rules’. Some want to chat by phone first. Some want at least x number of messages or x chat sessions before they meet up. Some want to be picked up, others don’t, etc. So even a really good man might be feeling defensive at first because they’re not sure what kind of woman you are yet. Which is why it’s SO IMPORTANT to feel comfortable expressing how you feel without worrying about the outcome. You show him you feel safe to express yourself. That safety is like honey to a man…attracts him like a bee to a flower. He will automatically want to come in close if he’s a masculine man.

    As for the photos, how kind of those men. They are self-eliminating themselves. I think that’s awesome personally…saves me a heck of a lot of time versus a snake who pretends to be a prince, you know? But as to the photos of men with their kids, I appreciate that kind of honesty. A few years back I dated a divorcee who’d married very young and had a kid right away, so even though we were in our mid-20s his kid was closer to 10 than 5 already. One of the things that first attracted me to him was that his profile clearly talked about his daughter and how important she was to him. I felt like he was an honest man (he was) and it made me feel immediately comfortable. To each their own of course.

    Just let men come towards you and show you what they have to give. All kinds of men. You don’t have to meet them all or chat with them all. Use it as practice to solidify your confidence in being yourself. Then when Mr. Right comes along you’ll be more than ready!

  31.  #31Liquid Light on January 7, 2015 at 11:24 am

    Beloved 25 The only message that a man hears when you go to his home is that you want to have sex with him. This has been my experience so I never go to a man’s home unless a) I’ve communicated clearly what I want/don’t want vis a vis physical contact or b) I’m ready to have sex with him.

    Your story rings too true to me and girlfriends that I know where the man practically jumps on her/me as soon as we are together alone in his home. Sad but true at least in my experience.

  32.  #32Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 11:51 am

    Oh my word Sirens, have you ever been so furious with a man that you don’t even know all the reasons you are furious?

  33.  #33Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    Indigo – if you mean, so furious I feel like I am frothing at the mouth and could literally just SPIT, then, yes, absolutely 🙂

  34.  #34Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Liquid Light – thank you! That fits. Lesson learned. I just want everything to be like it was in my community in Seattle where we were all pretty blunt and forthcoming.
    Would you like to come over and have sex?
    I want to come over and I only want to cuddle.
    Ok, I respect that, I’m looking for sex tonight.
    Great, thanks for telling me that. Have a good time!

    Yeah…cuz that’s just not really happening for me in the deep south, lol.

  35.  #35Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 12:12 pm


    Yes 🙂 In my case, it feels like a monster wants to crawl out of my chest and shake him until he listens to me, and inflict bodily harm on him!

  36.  #36RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    ((((((((Indigo)))))))) what is the matter? 🙁 <3

  37.  #37Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Yes, Indigo, what part of you needs to be listened to and heard??

  38.  #38RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    I woke up today to the sound of my parents fighting 🙁
    I feel so disturbed and frustrated and sad.
    I feel so much saddness for them.
    I feel like I just want them both to feel happy and in love, they so deserve to have that…
    And it breaks my heart that they are fighting with eachother.

  39.  #39RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    This sounds odd… But I wouldn’t mind if they got a divorce. A lot of the time parents try to stay together for the child, but in my case the thing which causes me the most pain is seeing them unhappy, and seeing the dysfunctionalness of their relationship 🙁 and this morning was worse than usual, something really bad happened although I’m not sure what exactly went on. My dad has done something, he may of cheated on my mom, but I can’t tell. She was swearing at him, telling him how stupid he is, and I feel like crying. I cried when I was hearing it and I feel like crying now. My dad is amazing and I love him, he deserves more than to be sworn at, and I don’t think he cheated, but has been releasing his thoughts and worries to the open ears of a lady friend, someone who listens to him, and that my mom is jealous. (That’s what it sounds like is going on). I just feel really alone and I wish I had a friend to talk to:( I feel co fused and sad and part of me wants to run to my mom with a rori raye ebook and say here you go this will fix all your troubles! But I feel scared she won’t accept and I don’t know if I should do that ahhhhhh

  40.  #40April Rose on January 7, 2015 at 3:02 pm


  41.  #41April Rose on January 7, 2015 at 3:03 pm


    I have known that feeling, yes. I committed murder many times over, in my mind!

    More recently the emotion has been one of outraged helplessness. No control at all in bringing any of his energy towards me. Aaaaaarghhhhh

  42.  #42RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    Thank you, April Rose

  43.  #43Waterfall on January 7, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Happy new year!

    It’s so hard to write on my phone.

    @ Indigo – I sooo relate sister siren! I am feeling pretty similar at the mo…

    Being furious at someone means that they are stirring passionate emotions and feelings in you… I wonder to myself, what are under my own feelings?!

    I feel like I will never meet any special someone. My life feels sooo vacuous all the time. I have little intimacy with friends, or lovers. I feel alone, I feel sad.

    I fill my time with doing stuff. I do lots of activities, I am always busy, but I am empty inside..

  44.  #44Waterfall on January 7, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    Sorry but I feel numb reading the articles by the Rabbi…

  45.  #45Andrea on January 7, 2015 at 5:22 pm

    A Woman #29, I’ve been having lots of fun with the work of Patty Contenta. If you google the name I’ll bet you find her website.
    She’s a competition ballroom dancer and she teaches women how to walk, lean, date, etc with sensuality and femininity. She teaches flirtation using subtle body language. She is high class, high value woman all the way, and yet she gives off this fun, flirtatious, inviting vibe that is extremely sensual and attractive.
    It was actually through her emails that I found the Rori Raye site.
    I purchased her dvd set and I really have a lot of fun with it.

  46.  #46lovetodance on January 7, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    andrea…i too have enjoyed patty contenta…and so glad you remembered her name for A Woman….i think she has it going on in a beautiful and sensual way…subtle but powerful….. i love her story also…

  47.  #47Andrea on January 7, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Beloved.. here’s something my little (age 38) brother told me once.
    When a man calls a woman; the woman thinks many different things, like “what a nice man for calling me.” or “Oh maybe he will ask me out.”
    When a woman calls a man; the man thinks: “She wants to have sex with me.”

    When a man holds the door open for a woman, she thinks many different things; “how nice, thank you.” or what ever..
    When a woman holds the door open for a man, he thinks: “She wants to have sex with me.”

    When a man asks a woman out, she thinks many different things: “Oh this will be fun.” “Oh maybe he likes me.” “Oh what will I wear for our wedding.”
    When a woman asks a man out, he thinks: “She wants to have sex with me.”

    When a man goes over to a woman’s house, she thinks many different things: “I hope it’s clean.” “What can I feed him.” “Does he like it here.” What ever…
    When a woman goes over to a man’s house, he thinks: “She wants to have sex with me.”

    : )

  48.  #48lovetodance on January 7, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    [[[[riley the owl]]]
    i hope you are feeling better…i hope the hurricane has passed….i send you support…i can only imagine how painful that must be to hear your parents fight each other that way….i feel sorry. and sad reading what you wrote….and know that you are not alone….


    i hope you are also riding thro the hurricane in one piece…good to acknowledge that depth of anger…better than squelching and stuffing….how are you now?

  49.  #49Mistea1 on January 7, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    Andrea 45,

    Ha, Ha, so here I was complimenting MusicTd on his playing or quality of his performance and he was translating it all to, “She wants to have s*x with me.” How dumb was I. Thanks for explaining this. It all makes perfect sense given our last ‘talk’ especially.

    I shouldn’t be let out of my cage, I’m so naive, I can’t believe I didn’t get this. I couldn’t figure out why he thought I was always coming on to him. Good Grief!

  50.  #50Gear on January 7, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    Andrea 46, this is so hilarious!!! But a good one. I will copy it to my notes. !

  51.  #51Beloved on January 7, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Andrea 45 – Well, that explains everything. And I mean…everything. It totally explains about a thousand mystifying interactions with my ex, T who would unexpectedly become FURIOUS and YELL at me because he was certain I was doing something on purpose to make him think I was about to have sex with him like…sit on the couch with my legs uncrossed. I am not exaggerating – and then maybe cross my legs. Which he took to mean, HA ha, no not really jk lol.
    What a nutbag, I’m so happy to be rid of him. If it weren’t for Rori and learning to drop the oars, my blessed butt might be in Oregon chasing after him and STILL trying to make it work.

    yes, Andrea, thank you, ahaha! It all makes sense now.

  52.  #52RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Ooohhh my goodness…. I’m crying because reading “you are not alone” really touched me… I badly needed to read that. thank you. It’s night time now and I heard them fighting in the morning, it is stressing me still. This stress feels different. Work and school related, busyness stress, I can process and deal with so well… But this… It feels relentless, it won’t go away, just pushing against me all day and bugging me. Sigh 🙁 my mom never came home for dinner, my dad went back to work, so it’s just me at home… I’m grateful for having this space to be alone right now, and I’m also a bit worried about why my mom hasn’t come home yet.

    Thank you for speaking to me love to dance, it really helps me feel better, and I am so grateful for your support.

  53.  #53Victoria on January 7, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    I also loved the explanation of how men read women :-).
    What I always keep in mind is that men have 10 times more testosterone than women so they kind of have a chronic testosterone poisoning which blurrs their thinking.
    I also read somewhere that a man is either horny or hungry. So if your man is not having an erection right now, go make him a sandwich.

  54.  #54Victoria on January 7, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    I hope I did not infect you with my nervousnesy and anger yesterday. Very sensutive people catch others emotions easily and internalize them.
    I had an unplanned date with F. I am not going to beat myself but he totally derailed my plans for the evening. He called, I cancelled my plans to go to the gym, he was late by about an hour (time which i could have spent at the gym) but instead we ended at a restaurant with unhealthy food. But he comes to me profusing his love and his eyes are literally watery with joy when he sees me and holds me and sees I am not mad. I am thinking to tell him in feeling messages about boundaries and making plan and keeping times and then as i open my mouth all i hear myself saying is that i love him.
    Consequently, it is five a.m. here and i cant sleep.
    But I definitely feel no anger any more. Yes I am needy, but that right now feels one notch better than angry. I just wish I could sleep.

  55.  #55Mistea1 on January 7, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Victoria 52,
    Hope you feel better soon.
    I think on the last thread I replied to your question of MusicTd is ‘the one’. Yes, if I want a clone of my x and to repeat the same scenarios over and over. I hope I’m learning something and can move on to something more suitable. Honestly, now that he’s gone I feel like I was on some sort of drug.

  56.  #56Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    Thanks Labbit!! Yes it certainly is practice. I don’t mind that aspect so much, its just that I can’t let myself feel down when it seems like there’s “all duds” when I see so many “bad” profiles….shirtless wonders with bad tattoos and akward pics with NFL cheerleaders….hahaha Paleez!!!! I must find the humor in it…

    I feel burdened and low tolerance for any BS of any kind due to my parents being a bit frail at this time…. I feel so worried about them and I really need a normal, happy, secure man to understand that I may be emotional at times….

    I don’t have time or energy to stroke boyish egos…..
    Yay Emerson you’ve really learned what you want and need!!

    RecycledCD keeps contacting me, I have not replied for months. He keeps trying, I know he is wondering what is going on with me, I have usually replied to him right away and this is new for me. I do find some satisfaction in knowing this, although I know it is “none of my business” what he is thinking….feeling…

    Sirens I feel so grateful for you to “talk” to…I realize how much I’ve learned and its really invaluable!!!

  57.  #57Emerson on January 7, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    It’s OK to break the “rules” once in a while and be flexible…not that you need my permission, but I must remind myself too….


  58.  #58IamHis on January 7, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    In the middle of reading Rori’s “Navigating Love ebook” & I feel so triggered & sad. I feel stuck in the past, wondering what might have been, how many amazing guys I’ve let slip away, how many loser I’ve chased, & how much of my precious heart, time, and youth that I have wasted. I’m wondering if tthere’s anyone left who I could possibly respect. I don’t feel pursued or desired, I feel taken for granted, overlooked, or as an annoying temptation to married men who showed interest in me in the past, but just.never.happened. I feel annoyed and uneasy about any men who come near me.


    Feel so weird about this thing I read about women who can only seem to care about taken men, specifically because they always felt like they had to work for their Dad’s love.

    Every guy lately, I’ve felt uninterested & I can’t hide that. Then I feel like they test me to see if I’m truly interested and I fail their stupid tests, so they just disappear & that makes me even more angry because they didn’t even try.

    These are stories I’m telling myself.

    Regret feels so lousy.

    My lack of faith in an amazing future feels so lousy. Good thing these emotions feel very temporary and an honest result of my PMS.

    I will write a good feeling future story for myself soon. I need one! 🙂

  59.  #59RileyTheOwl on January 7, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    (((((((((IamHis)))))))))) <3 if you think it's just pms, I hope you have a great time resting and relaxing while letting these symptoms pass… None of these stories your telling yourself need to be true any longer. You can get through this, 🙂

  60.  #60Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    RileytheOwl & April Rose,

    Thank you for the hugs. Thank you for the questions, Beloved.

    I am very angry with D. I leaned forward and asked him to meet for lunch because I need his help with something and the conversation devolved into a bad feeling mess.

  61.  #61Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Victoria 52,

    I am very sensitive and it is troublesome in relationships in more ways than one. I really don’t think it was you that had anything to do with it 🙂

    I actually was just feeling anxious and sad and not good about a number of things yesterday and it was probably not a good time to talk to him, and we triggered each other. But that in itself makes me angry. There are so many things I am angry about to do with him that I feel ashamed coming on Siren Island and saying these things. I feel embarrassed and like my cheeks are aflame, but it’s the truth. I’m hurt and furious.

  62.  #62Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 9:53 pm


    Thank you also for the hugs x Honestly I am feeling a little better, a little more perspective. But it is hard for me not to feel ashamed of feeling all those intense feelings and saying some of them to him. I agree it’s better than squelching or stuffing but I’m honestly just furious at the situation. I don’t like the way he treats me – and I feel angry that I’m not able to fully walk away from him, I try everything in the book and this strong emotional pull is there like some kind of creepy stalker who just won’t leave. I’m dramatizing of course, but I hate that this “thing” always lands me in these messy situations with him. I don’t do messy. I hate messy.

    Thanks lovetodance

  63.  #63Indigo on January 7, 2015 at 9:54 pm


    I am sorry you are in this situation where your parents are fighting. I remember being there myself, and how hard it is when you’re sensitive because you’re affected by it. Hoping for peace for you really soon.

  64.  #64prplpsn28 on January 7, 2015 at 10:28 pm


  65.  #65Victoria on January 7, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    I am sending you love and hugs.
    I feel for you with all my heart. I have been thinking, if I had managed to not forgive him the first time he upset me, I would have probably fotgotten him by now. But no, he is my poison of choice. So, I have zero smart advice for you…

  66.  #66Victoria on January 7, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    Mistea darling,
    Thank you so much for listening and responding.
    In my case I do not see F. as a repetition of my exes. He is in fact very different. I have typicall dated athletic but not very smart but otherwise reliable guys. Solid guys, stable, slightly boring. He on the other hand is very intelligent but very disorganized and has a kind of passive agressive personality ( the type that always smiles but never complies). He is also, shame shame on me, exceptionally good looking. Or at least I think he turns heads. And, to go back to Roris touchstone, he makes me feel great when we are together. Not when we are apart though.
    But you know, even with the most recent episode, since about October, when I started Roris tools, things are a bit better. Leaning back works. I have not being doing well on the other part cd-ing mainly because it is like minus 20 celsius here and men are hiding in their holes in this season, hehe. But I will !

  67.  #67Gear on January 8, 2015 at 12:27 am

    Believed 49
    Well, I don’t mind men think about sex all the time. That’s not the problem. The problem is some men are difficult man (if not toxic).

    I like men who think about sex all the time, some men think about it, and they do something about it, they go after it and make the target happy about giving to him; while some others think about it, and victimizer the target, forcing their way; or some men, they think about it, but they offer little.

    In general, if men don’t think about sex, then the human race has no hope. Women will be lonely creature in the planet. It’s what they do with what they want, and how they achieve what they want. Are they willing to offer women what women need in order to get what they want.

    My bf who I broke up with a year ago, wanted sex all the time, but totally rejected the future discussion, what he wanted for his future, did he want to get married or not. He was a good man, but he couldn’t offer what I need to continue the relationship with him, and yes, off course, I never gave him what he wanted, even though we dated five months. I don’t feel bad at all breaking up with him.

    Some men even think he gives you sex, you give him sex, that’s a equal relationship. How miserable this world has become! Men don’t work for sex any more. Ha!! Then they take it for granted!

  68.  #68Gear on January 8, 2015 at 12:30 am

    Correction: (2nd paragraph) I like the fact that men think about sex all the time. God created them that way, God created them that way for them to pursue women, to adore women.
    (Last paragraph) then they take it for granted, they don’t even need to give commitment!

  69.  #69Gear on January 8, 2015 at 1:16 am

    Hurricane? It does feel like siren island had a bit of storm in last day or so, I myself included, feel over casted by hopelessness. Whew!! I love this feeling though, I want to let this feeling sink in. Why I like this feeling? I feel like I am wearing a hopelessness pajama, walking around in my house with no one watching, or bothering me. I have all the time in the world to enjoy my feeling of hopelessness. How come this is so comforting? Maybe enjoying this stops me from doing things, maybe it stops me from performing, maybe it stops me from putting on the cheerful hopeful outfit. As it IS difficult to find the one. It IS difficult to meet the right person! The world has changed, when sex is a given, no commitment is required! Men don’t need to do what they used to, they don’t need to provide – take women out for dinner; they don’t need to impress women- do things to make us happy. But we, women are still the same, we are made as women to be adored, to be loved, to be taken care of. The physiological being has never been changed! I just feel so legitimate to be hopeless!

    Men’s need to be hard, to take charge; women’s need to be relaxed, soft, to be respective. How can men and women the same?

    All the men who are married and demand their wife to work and contribute equally financially to the family, probably never thought about if their wives are taking charge in those areas men want, they will not be receptive in the areas that men don’t want- sex.

  70.  #70Gear on January 8, 2015 at 1:33 am

    I feel so comforting in my hopelessness pajama, so I don’t have to go out to meet the short, small, and ugly, assuming controlling guy whom I never feel physically attracted to. What do you want to control me for? I am never even attracted to you.

    I don’t have to go out to meet the men who are divorced who have 2 -3 kids, who have to juggle between his two ex- es, taking care of two kids at two different locations. How could he have the energy to please me? How could he have time to work out his deadly patterns, his childhood issues, to let his new wounds be healed?

    Not mention that I don’t have to meet those who can’t get their acts together, who have not established themselves in their 40’s, they will never get to make it to the first date.

    I feel legitimate to grumble. I feel legitimate to complain. I feel legitimate to feel what I feel. The world is difficult for me to have the love I want. No, I m not on PMS…( But very close to)

  71.  #71Mistea1 on January 8, 2015 at 3:53 am

    Gear 65-68,
    You have some good nuggets of wisdom there for me and I thank you for that.

    Thinking about sex all the time. Good point. If the man is toxic/difficult it can be very confusing. One thing I heard was the importance of the woman’s role in raising young men right. In this era of hook-ups the men assume they don’t have to do anything. Then when they do find someone they don’t know what to do. The women are the ones who need to set standards instead of assuming the male role of pursuit etc. Or something like that.

  72.  #72Victoria on January 8, 2015 at 5:11 am

    After having a shitty night last night and a very shitty morning at work, I finally managed to drag my lazy a*s to the gym in my lunch break.
    I am a new person after 40 min cardio + 30 min small weights. I need to chisel this in my brain – go out and exercise, and you will feel ok, nothing else works like that.
    I am sending you love, hugs and kisses!

  73.  #73Victoria on January 8, 2015 at 5:18 am

    I got a letter from F. this morning ( love letter 🙂 saying, among other things, that he “feels like a little boy with me, a little bit shy, and very excited).
    I know he meant this is a good way, but I also realize that this is actually the problem between us… He acts juvenile, and I start to act motherly. This we will need to change. Mhm.

  74.  #74Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 5:20 am


    Talk about shitty night last night! I don’t even recall drifting off to sleep last night but it must have been somewhere around 3 am, and then bolt awake before 6 am with no chance of getting back to sleep. Needless to say I am feeling much better today but just to say that I feel you!
    Hugs & kisses and love back to you!

  75.  #75Victoria on January 8, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Oh Indigo,
    It must have been the moon or the season (yeah, winter for me, summer for you, or God knows what).
    I woke up at 4, couln’t sleet unlit 6, got to siren island and shared my agony here… Feeling resless, anxious, hopelell… What is amazing is that all these things are in my head, in my head only, nowhere else. I went to the gym and managed to sweat out all my anxiety. I can not emphasize enough how different I feel now!
    What else is going on with you?

  76.  #76Mistea1 on January 8, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Victoria 71, and Indigo and all,

    Being motherly, being the one in charge, interesting. That’s my modus operandi usually. So I am trying to do things differently and am finding that I have another distortion instead of healthy behavior. Aargh, when will this ever end.
    My new default seems to be juvenile behavior myself. lately I wanted to kick him in the shins and yell, “you dumb bunny,” at him. That’s now how I behave around him, no one else thank goodness.

    The other thing I am wondering about is the comments I and others have commented on. It’s this feeling that when we are around certain people it feels like we are drugged. I.E. drug of choice, poison, feel like I’ve been drugged. I for one can’t even continue on with my intentions for accomplishments etc. How do we neutralize this effect? Is there some type of will power that is needed. Normally I have great will power, except in this instance. Exercise does seem to help. I do practice my keyboard and my flute, and singing too.

    My coach’s advice is to do a radical lean back which in my case I would have to go somewhere else. I do not approach unless asked. I still do listen but do not say anything. I haven’t even gone and listened to practice in the last month. I don’t inform him of my presence there. I try to keep it very unnoticeable.

    He’s been gone 8 days and I feel back to normal. What a difference. I laugh and joke and feel confident and content especially at the church and I’m playing the organ myself. I want to do something so I don’t get sucked into his energy field again. I feel like I’m wresting myself away from some giant muck field.

    My coach said to get to feeling bored with him and his behavior. So there is both a mindset and the physical reaction to deal with for me. I look forward to discussion.

  77.  #77Labbit on January 8, 2015 at 6:10 am

    35 — Indigo, I know this feeling all too well. It usually calls for a spa day and the general avoidance of certain males for a day or two. I imagine that things might continue like this with D for a little while because the balance is shifting, and right now you’re both off-balance. It feels uncomfortable to be tilted so far from upright and still be expected to stand.

    If it is any consolation, when TenderCD and I were in relationship negotiation mode for those super tense couple of months, similar things would happen. We had some terrible conversations and dates in that period, and a lot of not talking with pissy moods before our energies both settled down. Starting with mine, much as I hate to admit that. I had to go first. It does smooth out eventually.

  78.  #78Labbit on January 8, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Victoria I am sorry to hear that you are too struggling with anxious feelings right now. That love letter from F does sound lovely! I want to encourage you to keep leaning back…it might feel unnatural…but will get you the results you want the fastest and easiest. It’s only tough until it becomes a habit!!

  79.  #79Victoria on January 8, 2015 at 6:26 am

    thank you so much!
    Thank you for what you wrote to Indigo too, it goes for me as well.
    It is unsettling for both of us, I am changing the energy as a result of which we are both off balance. But it will be ok eventually, I am sure it will, for all of us!

  80.  #80Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 6:29 am


    Thank you, your reassurance means a lot to me. One of the things I was doing last night when I couldn’t sleep was chatting to Dominique, and funnily enough she used those exact words – “both off-balance”. That is definitely what it was – doing so well with leaning back for a few weeks, and then bam! my legs buckle from underneath me, it all gets too much and I collapse in a heap. It usually takes 2 – 4 days to get balanced again. D takes about the same amount of time to get balanced as well. And the natural order of things is for us not to talk during that time.

    As for re-negotiating the relationship – as much as I wish that were the case, it is just not a possibility. D cannot do a committed relationship, he just cannot. No amount of negotiating, wishing it were different or Siren behavior will change that. If things were ever to get back on track it will be because one day he has changed and wants a relationship badly enough. If that ever happens I suspect it will be easy between us. So, no point beating myself up or spending worry energy over something I cannot change, is there?

    In the meantime, he is just someone I have a strong bond with, he is my kryptonite and I am his. He is just someone who is sort of in my life – sort of keeping the back door open, as you put it. But *I* get to decide in what capacity.

    Seriously, Dominique is great though – so wise, and always provides much needed balance and reality check! xx

  81.  #81Labbit on January 8, 2015 at 6:38 am

    77 Victoria — Yes, I feel very much the same way. I see only joy ahead. 🙂

    78 Indigo — Mmm yes I do understand, I apologize if I came off as trying to instill false hope. Totally right, no point in beating yourself up. I appreciate how hard it is to extricate yourself from that kind of situation, even if you know it is the best thing for you. I think you’re doing wonderfully!

    And Dominique is amazing. I don’t know what I would do without her. 🙂

  82.  #82Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Labbit, no need to apologise 🙂

    I was talking to myself as much as to you. It helps with the clarity to write things down/

  83.  #83Beloved on January 8, 2015 at 7:28 am

    ((Indigo)) – all of those thoughts and feelings are so very human. The reason that I asked, what needs to be heard and listened to, is because I’ve discovered that any time I feel that kind of rage and fury and feel like I need to MAKE someone hear me, it’s really *I* who need to be listening to myself. The first time I wrote a long and furious email, and instead of sending it out, I sent it to myself, was the day I started waking up out of my internal nightmare.

    Gear – I like what you say about not minding men thinking about sex all of the time. I don’t mind either, it’s like you say, about how they act and what they have to offer.

    I didn’t really realize, how they relate to thinking about sex all of the time really shows up in how they are treating us. With T that I mentioned, it makes perfect sense now. He had been terribly abused and neglected, and then raped by another man when he was 13. He was so desperate for attention, that he went back to the guy’s house to see if it might happen again, but the guy acted like nothing had ever happened. T experienced a rush of confusing feelings – the pain, the confusion, the excitement, the fear, the pleasure, the intensity, the attention, the need for some kind of physical contact being met and to this day I don’t believe he’s ever really come to terms with it. The “you just got me all excited and then moved away/you are teasing me in a brutal way” interactions, when, in my experience, I’m just…sitting on the couch listening to music…happened over and over.
    Our very last interaction makes even more sense because I felt emotionally raped and I suppose all he had to offer my vulnerability was his unhealed rape wound. And I guess, my finally realizing it wasn’t my fault, there was nothing I could do, and that I am an adult and I don’t have to continue to have anything to do with this person, then making the choice to go No Contact, finally started healing mine.

    Forgive me for being so heady…this feels so interesting to me, to see past in a different light.

  84.  #84Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 7:41 am


    That is pretty amazing (and thank you for the hugs). It’s so true, because everything I was furious with D about was to do with him not being able to do relationship, and everything he is not giving to me. And, in a certain way, I cannot do relationship and I am not giving those things to myself. I don’t know how to fix this. I’m not there yet. I don’t feel stuck, I feel in limbo, like suspended animation. Does that sound strange?

  85.  #85Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Ohhh,,, my such wonderful feelings and sharings here on Siren Island…
    YES the moon has been making it VERY hard for me to sleep…
    AND not seeing Spirit for 3 weeks… He asks
    I hold my boundaries
    He asks I hold my boundary
    and like you Indigo…
    knowing HE and I can Never be together
    practicing with him – soft on the outside strong on the inside…
    Missing him soo much
    knowing no contact is the best
    and CDing in the COLD of winter!!!
    Lots of stuff to do inside now…
    museums, gallery shows, theater

    I am struggling TODAY with the missing!!!!
    I will sink into it… I love my missing
    I am wearing my Missing PJ’s all day!!
    Love you Azure and

  86.  #86Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 7:51 am

    MISSING is a very powerful trigger for me…
    Missing my dad while i was growing up
    He would disappear for years and then
    my mom would let him pop back into our lives…
    My Ex vanished for 8 years and left me with 2 children to raise
    My fiance died – gone forever…

    Missing has deep sadness for me…

    But I am always here for me
    My Mom is always here for me now…
    Many people love and care for me…
    I love my missing cause it reminds me
    of how MANY people I’m NOT missing!!

  87.  #87Beloved on January 8, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Indigo – I feel so much softpinklight ripehearted compassion for you right now. I’m learning something from you. You said, ” I don’t do messy. I hate messy.” and I was feeling the same way at K’s the other night. I felt like I wanted to jump out of my skin because I said what I really felt and things went out of control and in a way that I didn’t like or want.

    I’m sitting here looking around at my messy room, in my mother’s messy house, and I am feeling the “messy” part of myself crying for love and compassion. I feel inspired to sit and be present with these feelings.

  88.  #88Liquid Light on January 8, 2015 at 8:40 am

    I’ve got CDs coming out of my ears now. I had an impromptu date last night which I was looking at As mostly two friends getting together. But he didn’t. He got a bottle of wine and we ended having dinner at a cutte restaurant. He want to go out again and I just feel blah. Just another guy that makes me feel ho-hum. I’m still comparing everyone to my ex and end feeling sad. Gd why do I keep doing that??? It really undermines me but yet I keep doing it. Feel like such an idiot. I have another date with Andy tonight. He drunk texted me last night and sent me an unflattering photo. I wish he hadn’t done that. I think he feels embarrassed about it too. But he’s got great taste and will come up w a fun date I’m sure. I wish I was more excited though. Maybe I’m just really depressed and need to admit it??

  89.  #89Lovergirl on January 8, 2015 at 8:57 am

    These articles are very interesting. I feel like they ring true. I am a very sexual woman and in my life men that love me tend to try and desexualize me. It seems like a pattern and I struggle very much with it.

    For 13 years, I was married to a man who almost never wanted sex. It was sooo confusing and hurtful. He would actually get upset when I tried to be sexual, like it was “wrong”. Granted a lot of that was his religious background (he also was in ministry). Still, it made me feel awful, like I was a bad person for wanting that.

    Now that I am away from that environment (divorced over 4 years and not in the church) I STILL seem to have this effect on men. The man I am currently seeing the most of has told me that he has feelings for me and that it makes him feel like he is treating me badly to have sex. What?? It’s so confusing to me, but these articles kind of brought perspective.

    It’s like when they like or love me, they get afraid of my sexual desire and want to tone it down. Perhaps it is due to fear of it extending to other men. I may not be helping that by doing a circular dating type thing though. That makes me worry a bit about that.

  90.  #90Veronica on January 8, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Met with Funny this morning for a breakfast date. I was feeling slightly nauseous (the mixture of heat, humidity and rain triggers this in me). I let him know how I was feeling and he was concerned, ordered food for us that wouldn’t upset my stomach. Gosh I just melted into his tenderness – putting on his jacket because the chilly draft was getting to me, cosying up to him as he kisses me gently. And the nauseous feelings kept coming in waves so that my NVs could run freely and feeling tempted to push my discomfort into finding fault with us. I had to leave earlier than I had anticipated since I was starting to feel ill. He still kisses me and has his focus on me – I blush from how beautiful this is. Later he sends me sweet loving messages one of which saying he thought I was beautiful today – genuinely, not trying to make me feel better. I love who he is and how he is with me even when I feel like throwing up.

    Also, he supports me when I have ideas – this is such a turn-on — not in a raunchy way but rather feeding that slow long hot-burn attraction.

    I was too distracted with feeling nauseous to be aware of how sireny things are going — and he noticed, saying ‘you were more yourself today’. Also, feeling ill, I had to just let us be, things happen and gosh there’s an unimagined beauty that just pitches up and runs its way with us.

  91.  #91Veronica on January 8, 2015 at 9:48 am

    And when I was leaving, the parking fee was a ridiculous price . I told him that I didn’t want to come to this area if the parking fee is going to be the price of a good sandwich. He says ‘done’. Oh my word – I drove feeling quite mystified how easily I could just say what I didn’t want. Earlier he told me – ‘you know, I am here for you, I can help you with things’ – I was speechless – lol it was hilarious how I just didn’t have the words.

  92.  #92Dawn on January 8, 2015 at 9:54 am

    I need some help!!! I am a 35 year old woman and I had been in some nasty relationship in the past. Well I have lost 245 pounds and my body is not in the best of shape from all my lose. I am not 100% happy about how my body looks and I am with this alsome man and he makes me so happy.. But when we have sex or make love I don’t want to take everything off but he always takes everything off of me and I freak out. I don’t know what he is really thinking about my body and the way it looks so its like I can’t do things that I want to do because I don’t know what he is thinking. Please help me get over this so I can be me in the bed room…

  93.  #93IamHis on January 8, 2015 at 10:19 am

    ((((Lovergirl))))) – I so relate to this! There is so much muffled and confusing or next to nothing teaching about sexuality in the religious world. Perhaps look at these men as messengers. What about your own sexuality are you denying or ashamed of?

    Could these men be picking up on that?

    Is there guilt involved? Is there something overtly sexual about you that you have difficulty accepting? I’ve struggled with the visual sexuality of my large breasts myself.

    The more you can love and accept any issues or feelings that come up, the more you will meet men who can love and accept yours too.

    Talking about my sexual triggers with men has been extremely healing for me.

    I used to feel so uncomfortable, I would barely let men touch me, & now I accept and feel good in it as one of my primary love languages!

  94.  #94Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    I feel very happy reading about your continued Sireny interactions and intimacy with Funny!!!
    I have tears in my eyes
    Tears of joy and warmth
    How loving and softly you describe how Funny
    is SOOO masculine in his care and giving to you!!!
    What a Siren you are
    How you have broken down your walls and
    let this LOVING man in!!
    Yay to YOU!!
    I hope you are feeling better…. oxoxo

  95.  #95Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 11:36 am

    me too… My messy self is CRYING out for LOVE…
    for tender hugs, for acceptance!

  96.  #96IamHis on January 8, 2015 at 12:10 pm


    I know “you’re in love” with R, and have been for the past seven years or whatever. I would really encourage you to drop that belief.

    If he is in a relationship with you where he calls you regularly, “hangs out with you”, but refuses to commit to you, why do want him?

    You say he respects women. How is he respecting YOU if he knows you’re in love with him and yet he continues to string you along without any kind of commitment?

    Just some thoughts.

    I dropped a guy friend I was in love with. It was really, really, hard.

    I sensed that he realized his feelings for me, only after experiencing the agony of losing me.

    He did not step up and claim me in order to keep from losing me. He married someone else, and tried to get my attention and string me along even a year after it happened.


    Sure, it hurts like h3ll at first, but it’s the only path to freedom.

  97.  #97IamHis on January 8, 2015 at 1:26 pm


    Today, at a training, he was the first person I saw step out of his car. Gorgeous, but approachable kind of gorgeous. Beard, kind eyes.

    I was *almost* late and didn’t want to be.

    I rushed passed him with a quick, shy smile.

    In the training, I talked a lot, because of my experience. He kept looking at me, REALLY looking at me.

    I couldn’t remember my own name, let alone the tools.


    We have a college major in common. He was younger, though he didn’t look it at all, and I found myself wanting to warn him, but didn’t.

    OH WOW.

    I’m just thankful that such men still exist.

  98.  #98IamHis on January 8, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    Man, I feel triggered!

    A lot of men notice me, especially when I let my boy dress up my girl and I feel good, I feel like ME!

    I feel scared that the reason that “amazing Christian men” that every “amazing Christian woman” wants, would never choose “an amazing Christian woman” like me, simply because men DO notice me, and I am STUBBORN and I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE MYSELF IN MARRIAGE. I WANT TO BLOSSOM INTO THE BEST VERSION OF MYSELF, AND TO HELP HIM DO THE SAME!!!!

    but I want him to be pretty awesome when we marry too. and I want to be awesome as well.

    even though I know we’re both still growing and evolving and learning in this thing called life.

    I feel like screaming! In a good way!

  99.  #99Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    IAmHis #95
    Simply Powerful!!

  100.  #100Beloved on January 8, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    Grrr…growly growl grrr….
    M2 realized he had set a beach date for a day that is supposed to rain all day, so he suggested going to the museum. I just flat out said, I don’t really want to go to the museum.
    “The museum” here is a place I’ve been to a million times, I grew up with it, I’m beyond bored with it.
    I also felt so excited about going to see the dolphins.
    My heart is screeeeaming at me, this is going nowhere, end it now!
    I can maybe even deal with a dire financial situation, but now this lack of creativity on coming up with an alternative is annoying. I’d actually almost rather go to the beach and the ferry in the freezing rain, but I’m pretty sure his car doesn’t have heat…
    I shouldn’t dither. I don’t believe I need this kind of practice. This reminds me too much of my situation with my ex, only this time, instead of rowing the boat and doing the driving and the paying and everything, I’m not doing any of that.
    I feel sad, he’s super kind. He so does not want to mess this up.
    I feel like…he hasn’t done anything to screw it up, he just doesn’t really have a chance and I can use all of the FM’s in the world he could really try, and it would kind of be just like asking him to jump through hoops. If I see him “as is”, with no changes, ouch, so weird, the conflicting feelings in my heart. I feel for how much he really wants to make me happy, and how I don’t believe he can.

    Maybe I just need to sink into my feelings for a bit.
    Ok…there it is…as a siren, there are always going to be a lot of men who want to make me happy, and many of them are simply not going to measure up. It isn’t my job to be the one for everyone who wants me.

    What I’m struggling with, is how to let him down and be kind about it.
    It’s going to hurt him, I don’t think there’s any around it.
    I hate that.
    I wish I could find a better way.

  101.  #101Beloved on January 8, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Well….bleh. I just talked to him and he offered pretty much bubkiss in the way of options. I felt like he wanted me to do the leading and figure out the date.
    He suggested dinner and a movie, and HE sounded really unhappy with that option.
    He just said, ok, bye bye, and hung up.
    Haha, ok, I’m giggling, that was easier than I thought.

    Maybe y’all can help me come up with something with this other guy? I told him what part of town I live in and he asked me where that is. I’m thinking….Dude, you have google, too…wtf? I feel turned off and not interested anymore.

  102.  #102Gear on January 8, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Mister 69, thank you for your feedback. I feel so happy that someone feel related to what I said. I agree with your comment too. If a man has good women in his life, like loving mother, sister, aunt,,,,his attitude towards women will be totally different from the men grew up didn’t have loving women around…big difference.

    Azure, 83-84, your message felt like poem, so soft and so beautiful. I like them. And how sensitive you are towards the feelings that were shared… I can also feel your feeling of missing. Hug.

    Beloved, 97-98, it felt you had great exchange with him.(I meant interaction, but I felt “exchange” fits better. 🙂
    You’ve got what you wanted, and sometime, even ourselves don’t really know what we wanted, isn’t it? So I would treat myself one thing from the channeling list, and celebrate it. And looking forward to the movie and dinner with him. How fun. I feel excited for you.

  103.  #103IamHis on January 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    My family…my parents and I…we got into a fight tonight…and it felt good because for once it felt like actual communication took place, and I felt heard and I felt seen and I felt smart and I felt like an adult woman with a voice…different from my mother’s…but a voice none-the-less.

    I feel sorry for my Mom. I know she loves me. I love her too. But I just feel so sorry for her, because she lacks strength, confidence, and dreams of her own.

    What are dreams, anyway? When do we reach them? When we reach them, then what?

  104.  #104Zia on January 8, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    I have been having fun re-reading my posts from a year ago, when my boyfriend and I first got together 🙂

  105.  #105Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Azure Blu 83,

    Everyone has been talking about the moon and how it makes it hard to feel calm and to sleep – do you mind explaining this to me?

    I feel so proud of you for holding your boundary with Spirit, and for coming to this powerful realization. It was powerful for me too, a feeling of much greater clarity than I’ve had in the last 3 years. I have also not seen D in 3 weeks (3 weeks today) and that is ok.

  106.  #106Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Beloved 85,

    Thank you for your compassion 🙂 “Messy” feels extremely scary and bad to me. I am an incredibly organized person – not to the point of being controlling, I think – but I just find my sensitive nature can function so much better when I know what to expect, when I know what I’m doing and can do so calmly and clearly. By contrast, D triggers feelings in me which sometimes feel good, and sometimes feel so messy and frightening. Although I must say, once the feeling of “messiness” clears, things actually feel pretty good, euphoric even. Obviously it’s good to feel, to open – I sometimes wish I was a bit more skilled with the messiness.

  107.  #107Azure Blu on January 8, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    I feel very proud of you also…!!!
    3 weeks today since you’ve seen D and I’ve Seen Spirit!
    We are taking such good care of our hearts!
    It doesn’t always feel so good…
    i sooo wish it was Spirit…
    Alll the wishing in the world won’t
    make it so.
    He’s perfect just like he is…
    but that isn’t what I want!

    The moon… Ahhh that big, beautiful
    pale, yellow light in the indigo sky..
    such a POWERFUL pull on the earth…
    on my soul…
    “This past weeks’ full moon was in Cancer.
    it’s a super-charged event that will bring out our highest, most intuitive selves — along with a whole range of emotions.
    Cancer rules the zodiac’s fourth house of motherhood and femininity and puts us deeply in tune with our feelings.”
    If you google “Effect of the full moon”
    You will find many interesting articles…
    You may not believe in the effects of the zodiac
    But scientifically the moon has a strong pull on the earth everyday… just much stronger on the full moons and the new moons.

  108.  #108Zia on January 8, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    I find with the full moons I tend to get more vivid crazy dreams, and that it can also mean trouble sleeping. I also notice my cat would be more awake during the nights when there was a full moon.

  109.  #109Indigo on January 8, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    Zia & Azure Blu,

    Thank you – I have noticed that I tend to be much, much more alert at the full moons, and my emotions can go a bit haywire. So yes, this often results in difficulty sleeping. It was funny how I went from feeling so calm and so clear to feeling so messy in just a few hours. Do you know if Wednesday night was a full moon?

    Azure, thank you for the suggestions of the articles. I love reading up on this stuff.

  110.  #110Zia on January 8, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    Indigo – full moon was on 5th of jan but the effects can still be strong in the 48 hours before/after 🙂

  111.  #111Medusa on January 9, 2015 at 12:30 am

    Thank you, THANK YOU for posting the Rabbi’s articles.

    I feel excitement dancing through my bloodstream.

    I feel like jumping and whirling and sharing this link with all the conscious people I know.

    I feel flooded with singing blue light.

    Hooray, hooray! Someone GETS it. A MAAAANNNNNNN gets it!!!!!

    A MAN cares enough, and is FEARLESS enough, to describe this horror honestly… and share it with the world!

    I feel my anger triggered as I remember how this happened to me… how I bought into it… how confusing and awful it felt.

    How it f*cked with my sensuality, my femininity, my cherishing of self.

    I feel vicious.

    My fingernails want to slash toward the eyes of all the men who subconsciously “need” to destroy women in this way.

    My breath feels venomous.

    I feel like I want to spread a burning poison onto those men, so it sizzles their skin.

    I feel my teeth wanting to bite and tear at their flesh.

    I feel my rage, and I feel her twin sister, a fierce joy.

    I feel exultant.

    The secret is out!

    Now it can end!

    I feel myself wanting to help spread this awareness!

    This feels important and BIG.

    Thank you Rori!!!!!

  112.  #112IamHis on January 9, 2015 at 12:46 am

    I am feeling grief right now, in the middle of the night. I feel scared, sad, angry, & teary.

    I miss “the guy who brought me here.”

    I hate the lies that I believed about him, that my mom told me.

    I just watched a video of a young couple, so clearly in love, & she announced to him that she was pregnant.

    I feel so sad that he and I were robbed of that. That there’s so much I’l never know about what might have been.

    My heart feels like it’s breaking all over again. Every new milestone that he and I don’t get to share.

    My twenties are gone and I feel grief for them and for all the grief I experienced within them.

    I just feel so unbearably sad…

  113.  #113Veronica on January 9, 2015 at 5:24 am

    Azure Blu – 91 – xoxoxo

    I feel acknowledged/celebrated by your response ((((((((thank you Azure))))))))))). I am struggling with sharing loving moments whether it be with close ones or if Funny wants to kiss me and we happen to be in a public area. I still feel the reproach of shame. Sometimes my NVs tell me that someone will hurt this love if they know about it. Also, the fears and NVs and the bad experiences of the past can sometimes hold such sway that it is easy to just sit out a moment that is changing the reality that I thought existed. For example, I keep assuming that people will just drop me once my use for them doesn’t pan out. Thankfully quite a few people have shown me otherwise, and I can start to believe that my being with someone without their use to me being pivotal can be just as strong as someone else’s belief to just jump ship.

    Yes you found the words so easily – ugh how could I forget those words – yes – his masculine caring and generosity.

    And walls are slowly being broken down and I’m slowly letting him in. After our breakfast I had felt our distance and was reverting to old fears that once I love this man he too will go away. What I was afraid in this was that I didn’t want to have that particular kind of pain which comes with that experience again.

    I feel much better today thank you – have been eating a lot more.

    Azure I appreciate your interest so much – thank you dear Azure xxx

  114.  #114Isobel on January 9, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Rabbi Shmuley Boteach – I think the correct way to address him is Rabbi Boteach, although I doubt he would care one way or another – had (maybe still has) a reality TV show called “Shalom HaBayit” or “Peace in the Home”. He encapsulated a lot of what you teach here with the ultimate goal of the family working together as a unit. He has his detractors (he’s a “celebrity Rabbi” whatever that means) but generally I’ve found him to talk a lot of sense and come at issues from an unusual angle for a religious man.

  115.  #115Victoria on January 9, 2015 at 5:55 am

    Here come my deepest thanks to the whole of siren island.
    You ladies are such an inspiration!
    And, I feel I am doing very well today.
    I had been leaning back and standing my ground (two days, not a big deal, but this has been feeling like two years for me!). We were off balance for a while, and he was trying to keep his own leaned back position, and we had some tug and pull.
    But today something happened and I see him coming leaning towards me very heavily. Nice.
    Also, he did (I am sure he did it on purpose!) something to trigger me, to try to get me off-balance again, so that we could move to the original position. No way, darling. I did not allow myself to get triggered, I was sireny and vulnerable, but did not say a word of criticism. I managed to stay away from giving suggestions or trying to fix him, and kept leaning back. And, he is coming forward. Now, I just need to manage to do this a big longer, just do nothing, just be.

  116.  #116Beloved on January 9, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Gear – sorry I wasn’t clear – I’m not going to see him again. I meant, he didn’t even feel good about his own idea. He was grousing about paying $1 for parking on the beach and I didn’t want to deal with the stress I would feel over it. I know he’s a man and it’s his business…and…I just don’t want to date someone who is having such difficulty with money. He is a very creative person, and I felt disappointed that he didn’t come up with anything more fun and creative, he just realized the beach date was a bad idea and didn’t come up with any other options and I felt like he kept trying to lob the planning over to me, which didn’t feel good.
    Plus, I didn’t like the way he kisses, his tongue is really short (ew) and he just reminds me too much of my ex in some ways.

  117.  #117Rori Raye on January 9, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Dawn – please, please, please get some help. If your man is taking your clothes off and making love to you – he LIKES your body exactly as it is! Now YOU have to!!!! Dominique is AWESOME in every single way -please go to and hire her to help you…Love, Rori

  118.  #118Rori Raye on January 9, 2015 at 8:34 am

    Waterfall – Thank you for sharing – How does that go for you? What triggers the “numb”? I truly get it – it’s a lot to say about women (from a man). I was seriously triggered by the articles and the book – and just feel so empowered by hearing it all from a man. Love, Rori

  119.  #119Indigo on January 9, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Waterfall 43,

    Yes I agree – for me personally I can only feel furious at someone or something I feel passionate about.

  120.  #120Indigo on January 9, 2015 at 8:44 am


    I am so glad you are feeling better, and I really relate to the fear that as soon as you start loving someone back, they will leave you.

    I am so glad you are dismantling this wall so gently and persistently.


  121.  #121Tee on January 9, 2015 at 9:11 am

    I’m feeling like I have an emotional disorder! When my man isn’t around, I think about all the ways I miss him, how I’m gonna try to be in the feminine more, lean back, take the pressure of My Happiness off of him, do more for me, Etc. Yet, when I see him it’s like every little thing he does just annoys the pants off of me! I’ve been so snappy lately. Then when he makes himself scarce due to my attitude, I feel guilty and hurt because I feel I’m hurting him for reasons we both don’t fully understand.

    Isn’t there an article on self love or something? I feel like I have no clue what the heck is going on with me :/

  122.  #122Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Victoria #115
    Wow Girl!!!
    Staying vulnerable, no Criticism, no fixing
    Staying out of his business!!
    You are such an inspiration to me!!
    My last interaction with Spirit I
    forgot all the Rori Tools.

    How lovely to read how well you are taking care of YOU!!!

  123.  #123Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Beloved #116.
    Lovely Siren,
    You are valuing Your boundaries!!
    I don’t know who wrote this…
    “We’re in charge of the interview process
    for the people we allow in our lives.
    We’re in charge of the standards we insist on
    for those permitted to be in a relationship
    with us
    and particularly those allowed into our homes,
    our hearts and our beds.
    You’re weren’t born to be ordinary.
    Don’t settle.
    Raising your standards changes the world.”
    Yay BELOVED!!

  124.  #124Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Veronica #113,
    I feel happy you feel acknowledged!!
    Opening your heart more and more..
    It is VERY scary…
    BUT sooo worth it

    YOU are VERY brave…
    I wanna see how BIG your BRAVE is!!!

  125.  #125Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 9:36 am

    ((((Waterfall #43)))))
    I feel sad reading how lonely you feel…
    I am glad you are here on Siren Island

    For me… I know when I get terribly sad
    I come here and read and read…
    the archives the new posts…

    Lots and Lots of support here!

    A Rori coach is VERY valuable
    especially during these times.
    Natalina Love is the coach I use…
    She is GREAT!!

  126.  #126Tee on January 9, 2015 at 10:30 am

    Does anyone else have posting issues aside from me?

    I’m feeling like I have an emotional disorder! When my man isn’t around, I think about all the ways I miss him, how I’m gonna try to be in the feminine more, lean back, take the pressure of My Happiness off of him, do more for me, Etc. Yet, when I see him it’s like every little thing he does just annoys the pants off of me! I’ve been so snappy lately. Then when he makes himself scarce due to my attitude, I feel guilty and hurt because I feel I’m hurting him for reasons we both don’t fully understand.

    Didn’t Rori or someone have an article on self love or something? I feel like I have no clue what the heck is going on with me :/

  127.  #127Lovergirl on January 9, 2015 at 10:31 am

    @#93 Iamhis
    Thank you so much for your comment. I wonder sometimes if it is my own fears reflecting back on these men. If somehow I feel guilty and it causes them to pick up on it and feel the same. I think I do fear that being overly sexual will make me be seen as “slutty” and that worries me when I have feelings for someone.

  128.  #128Tee on January 9, 2015 at 10:36 am

    This blog doesn’t like me

  129.  #129Indigo on January 9, 2015 at 11:06 am


    I came to an interesting revelation while out on my walk yesterday – the only one keeping me from happiness in this moment is me.

    I experienced such a surge of joy – listening to my favourite music on my headphones, looking at the gorgeous cloud formations in the dusky sky, feeling a delicious breeze on my skin, taking in the breathtaking greenery of the surroundings… And I realized that joy had come from just letting go and allowing myself to feel it. And I thought, what if I could feel this way in every moment?

    And I know there will be times when life will be sad – today my horse went to another home and there is an emptiness inside me that I cannot describe to anyone who has never felt this depth of friendship and love for an animal – and I realized I can still feel joy and look forward to life.

  130.  #130Beloved on January 9, 2015 at 11:47 am

    Azure Blue – 122
    Oh, I feel a sigh of sweetness…thank you.
    It feels so scary to raise my standards.

  131.  #131Labbit on January 9, 2015 at 11:56 am

    115 Victoria — Hooray, that’s awesome news! Good on you for recognizing the trigger and not reacting to it…that can be so hard sometimes!!

    126 Indigo — Aww, did you sell your horse? I owned horses up until I was about 24, when I moved into the city for good. It wasn’t realistic to own a horse here. When I was 21 we retired my pony from childhood and even though he went off to a beautiful farm upstate where the owners (family friends) sent me lots of photos, I still missed him so very much. I went to visit him often and even when he was 35 and practically blind he’d still whinny and trot right up to me at the edge of the pasture. And then bite me because that’s what ponies do, haha. The day he passed I knew it before my friends reached out to me, I could just feel him saying goodbye.

    And yet I also completely get what you say about seeing the opportunity for joy in every moment. What a beautiful gift it is to be a woman and be able to feel different things simultaneously. Finding the joy can be wonderful…I’ve also learned that feeling anything purely can be a delight in its own way, even sadness or pain or confusion or any feeling if I just let myself really feel it without trying to change it or make it go away.

    Over the past few days I’ve settled into a new phase of being, one where I see that my ‘work’ right now really is about learning how to lean back yet still be open and vulnerable; to stay out of my man’s business and stop trying to figure him out and instead focus on myself and keep me the top priority. Right now since this all feels somewhat unnatural to me it seems like work and I have to be on top of it so that I don’t fall into old patterns. I have to think about relaxing my body and my mind before I can do it, which feels weird right now, but I know that in time this will all become my new normal.

    Last night I had dinner with a male friend, a great chance to practice CD’ing, and during dinner at one point he told me he loved hanging out with me so much because he felt comfortable being himself around me. I nearly melted into the floor from happiness. When I got home to TenderCD waiting he plastered my face and body with kisses and told me something similar. Being in my feminine energy still isn’t the easiest for me — at some times I don’t quite get how to do it — but as I am learning the results are amazing, feel incredible, make me never want to go back no matter what happens in my life from this moment forward.

  132.  #132Labbit on January 9, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    I’ve also been making myself go out a lot more than usual, so I can practice leaning back and being an invitation. This has been hard for me! When I am at the coffee shop for instance and a man sits down next to me I can feel myself wanting to close down and put up my walls as though I have to protect myself somehow. So these last few days have been all about going inside and practicing taking those walls down, realizing this man I don’t know isn’t out to hurt me, that I trust myself so I will be OK.

    It’s funny because I do love to go out by myself — to dinner, or a movie, or a party and so on. I’ve noticed that in the past when I was single or now when TenderCD and my relationship is growing very intimate that I feel uncomfortable out and about, as though I have to hide myself somehow. And now that I know that’s the opposite of what I need to do, I need to keep expanding in my own life and making new connections and doing things I’m passionate about so I stay the center of my own world…it’s a challenge but one I’m up to. Yet I’ve noticed that in the past when a relationship was first starting for me and my confidence was at its highest, or right before I meet someone new, it’s EASY and FUN to go out! I’m trying to recapture that spirit now…

  133.  #133Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    Ohhh… I so know how that feels..
    We had horses and ponies for me and my children for years – my daughter rides, sells and trains warmbloods for dressage!
    I miss my horses and riding…
    Did you plan on getting another horse?

    Mmmmmm… thank you for sharing this!
    “seeing the opportunity for joy in every moment. ”
    I want to do this too!

  134.  #134Femininewoman on January 9, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    awww Indigo. My heart just fell naturally open reading about your revelation and your horse. Thanks for helping me to feel that sensation. It reminded me of Rori’s “Love is All There” is. In that moment that was how it felt. My whole being just melting and living the moment with you.

  135.  #135Cherise on January 9, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    This has happened to me before. It can start out as a simple insult towards my body, my appearance. I feel shocked, humiliated, small. I want to avoid those feelings and make changes and compromises in hopes to soothe the man. It only escalates further and I feel a soul and spirit crushing emptiness. A man doesn’t change, he does what he wants. I cannot fix this within him. Is the only solution to recognize when this first happens and be willing to walk away?

  136.  #136Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Labbit #128-29
    I feel intrigued reading about how you are
    being more open with the outside world…
    focusing more on YOUR life…
    Cding with friends and keeping on your bridge
    even though (because) you and Tender
    are becoming more emotionally close.
    A good reminder for me.

    Thank you for your amazing authenticity
    and sharing here on Siren Island…
    The time you take to respond to all of us is so loving and caring and makes my heart feel cherished and delightfully acknowledged.

  137.  #137Labbit on January 9, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    132 Cherise — No, I don’t think you have to walk away when it first happens. A lot of times we ‘sing’ our insecurities without even realizing we’re doing it. For example I once went on a date where I kept having these thoughts about the 12 Step Program, which was very odd and far outside my reality. But sure enough by the end of the date the man told me that he’d just recently wrapped up the 12 Step Program for alcoholism.

    So if for whatever reason you’re feeling fearful that a man may make those types of insults, weird as it sounds the fearful energy might drive him into doing exactly that. I am not saying this to put blame on you in any way, rather to help you understand that it’s our energy that steers emotions, especially in relationships. However, if you can find a way to soothe yourself when you’re feeling nervous about it, to become strong enough in yourself to where that initial insult doesn’t trigger you anymore, I’d bet that this pattern would not continue for you. Instead of avoiding the feelings you need to let yourself feel them — better to start on your own if you can — because your resistance to those feelings is keeping them locked around your heart like a chain. And really as awful as you may think those feelings are, resisting them is placing much more stress on your mind, body and heart.

    It comes down loving and valuing yourself deeply. When a man sees that he cannot affect you by saying those types of things, he will stop. I think if you try to walk away from a man when he first does this, you may keep meeting it over and over as the Universe sometimes gives us our lessons this way. But of course if anything abusive is happening then YES by all means get the heck out of there. Much love to you…and good luck on your healing journey! I have a feeling you will find joy sooner rather than later.

  138.  #138Labbit on January 9, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    133 Azure Blu — Thank you much, wonderful woman! I could say very much the same about you…the way you take the time to respond to just about everyone here is a delight. 🙂

    I have been feeling defensive this week…I think in reaction to all the intimacy coming my way. It feels strange and uncomfortable when my mind starts shooting barbs towards TenderCD or other men (I don’t say them out loud, thank God) for no reason at all other than them wanting to come close to me. And lately a lot of men have wanted to come close! Which I like and also have a hard time receiving. I did accidentally snap at one of my gym instructors this week, but I caught myself and apologized immediately and luckily he forgot about a second later. I can tell this is a very old protective mechanism of mine, though that doesn’t make it much easier to heal. My hope is that by opening myself up further…unzippering my heart even more past my comfort zone…this defensive gremlin voice will quiet down.

  139.  #139Mistea1 on January 9, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Cherise 132
    Woow, good question, “Is the only solution to recognise this when it first happens and walk away?

    For me I would say it depends on what you want. I recognised MusicTd was a no go within the first 3-4 encounters. He triggered me big time. Common sense dictated that yes, I walk away. But I learned sooo much by continuing to stay the course. I had a major issue with father abandonment.

    I did EFT and used how I responded to him as a guage to tell me that I was getting through it. I practiced my flirting techniques after having been single for many years. I lost 25 lbs, cleaned myself up and became more self confident even as he began to ‘punish me’ for daring to come on to him. He was the one who started it.

    I am here primarily for the great effect the music has on me. I tried to keep this in mind even while I fell for him knowing he was a no go. That was and is very hard on me.

    I rediscovered my love for music and even had an indepth spiritual conversion and kundalini experience. That was so worth it. Music has the ability to bypass the intellect and go straight to the heart. There is great beauty in MusicTd as there is in all of us. I got to experience it first hand. However, the layers of chaos are too much to tolerate. The only way he would be acceptable is if he died and was reincarnated as a different person. So sad.

    I learned a lot of Rori tools and used one of the coaches here Mary Catherine to great advantage. These tools and attitudes have made my life so much kinder and easier. What a blessing.

    I learned about CDing and am having more fun. I am using it to offset MusicTds chaos and his punishing attitude. Which by the way has to do with early life abuse and war issues. He has to deal with that as it is his problem.

    So Cherise, the short answer is yes, get out ASAP. The long answer depends on how resilient you are to begin with and if you want to use this time to work on your issues. BE very honest with yourself and make sure you are strong as a person like this can take you down. Read Rori’s and Dominique’s article on toxic men.

  140.  #140Mistea1 on January 9, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    To All Sirens,
    I need help again to monitor my covering myself up with my sarcasm and wit.

    My lawguy is very interesting and I’m ok with the emails right now. However, I have this knack of picking up on just the right thing i.e. guess about him and he is ‘stunned’ that I would pick up on what ever. I am so tempted to tell him not to be surprised because “all I do is look in his psyche and open the book and there it is.” Of course I think this is terribly witty but he may not. I want to be honest too.

    What do you all think?

  141.  #141Azure Blu on January 9, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    It would be good to hear how the conversation
    Given the little you shared here
    To me that feels like getting into his business…

    Rori encourages us to stay out of their business

    Dropping into YOUR heart… sharing YOUR feelings about the lusciousness of a beautiful piece of music…
    how YOUR heart melts when you hear Mozart…
    How much joy the taste of chocolate ice cream brings you!

  142.  #142Liquid Light on January 9, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    I’m really excited about having the night off with no plans – no dates, no nothing – just me and the TV :). I’ve been dating like crazy and its exhausting. I had another date with Andy last night and felt like I was beginning to glimpse into the mind of a madman. Ughh. What a piece of work. He’s got a lot of good qualities but I’m finding that you begin to scratch a little beneath the surface with these guys, and all sorts of not so pretty stuff emerges. Yikes. Better to know sooner rather than later though I guess. His story just really started falling apart as the night went on, it was kinda scary. I think there is a big gap between his view of himself and reality.

  143.  #143Liquid Light on January 9, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    Also, the other strange thing is remembered almost nothing I had mentioned about myself from previous conversations we had. It was bizarre and disappointing.

  144.  #144a woman on January 9, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    Andrea, OMG this feels so weird. I was doing an online research yesterday and found out about Patty and I watched some of her videos on youtube which highly inspired me. Now I thought mmm, I should go on Rori’s blog and let the other women there know about her. Wow, that’s like DejaVu. Made me smile:)

    I love her, because what she teaches isn’t going against Rori’s tools but actually goes hand in hand. Tools+sensual body language and flirting= success & fun.


  145.  #145Dominique on January 9, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    Labbit – 128 – Huge smile on my face!!! Happy Dance!!! YAY YOU!!! 🙂

    Love to you.


  146.  #146Dominique on January 9, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    Dawn – You ARE perfect just as you no matter what you think you look like. And your man obviously adores you this way too. I’m here for you if you want to talk more.


  147.  #147Radlove on January 9, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    A Woman,

    29 – Please excuse me for taking so long…been busy.

    That’s great to work on your posture! Me too! I miss my chiropractor…

  148.  #148Radlove on January 9, 2015 at 7:14 pm


    96 – Oooh you were deeply honest with me…

    True and faithful are the wounds of a friend…thank you for not holding back. Your truth bullets just went to my heart of hearts at a time when I am really needing to hear how this friendship is going nowhere.

    So torn…so wanting him in my life. He has stated clearly that he just wants to be friends. So he is not leading me on verbally. But of course it is a world of hurt hanging out with him when he just wants to hang out and he talks about his other female conquests and such. Ouch.

    So is it enough to be spiritual friends? That is the question I ask myself again and again. We go to a Bible study together, and we pray with a minister together. Hard to give all that up when it is the highlight of my week…

  149.  #149Tereana on January 9, 2015 at 9:31 pm

    Wow, it is so cool that Rori is referencing a rabbi here! I can’t wait to read his articles : )

  150.  #150Tereana on January 9, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    On a completely different note, I keep observing that men are *masters* at “projection.” They’ll be like, ‘You really want me, don’t you?’ And I’m thinking – well, no, actually. I haven’t decided if I want you or not. I believe it is you who want me. (As an example.) Or they assume that because they really like and want to do something, that I also like and want to do the same thing. I don’t get this. They don’t seem to understand, or want to understand the difference…thisis my experience

  151.  #151Tereana on January 9, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    So…after a really intense “rejecting” experience, where I wanted to just shove AJ out of my life, he’s somewhat back in it. I think I reached out to him around New Year’s. I wasn’t trying to “get him back” or anything. Just saying hi…and he responded.

    We’ve been texting a bit. He travels a lot for business. I can’t chabge that. And I know it means I can’t rely of him to “be there” for me. But…well, he did call me the other night. He called me! A real phone call! It was so much fun!!

    But then…I did a stupid thing. Or maybe it wasn’t stupid. Or maybe it was a series of stupid things. Well, for one, after the phone call, AJ wanted me to send him a “dirty text.” I said I wasn’t really into it. Then he kept putting pressure on it. I held off I responding. The next day I sent something sort of sexy. Then he didn’t even write back. Then I said I didn’t feel like it was the right time for it and it felt fake. He sent a weirdly worded text that made no sense to me. I responded. And since then…nothing.

    I keep thinking – ugh. I couldn’t just say “no” could I? I didn’t want to. I really had no interest in doing it. I convinced myself to “stretch” in order to please. And I don’t like how I feel about that. I mean, at least I was honest in the end. But what does he think of me now? That I am a push-over? Because it feels like I am. But here is the thing: in the moment, I felt very strong and in control of myself. Only afterward do I see it differently.

    And also…right after he called, I went to meet a different man. I did not feel that I wanted to have sex with this man. But I ended up kind of having sex with him anyway. It wasn’t full-on, but it kind of was sex.

    And the best thing I can do about any of this is to just not hats myself for any of my decisions. So, ok. I went in thinking “no sex.” Then, in the moment, I ‘went along.’ And it felt good. But let’s be clear: I never said “yes.” I just avoided saying no. And actually, when I think about it, my “no” was there. I just didn’t say it. I felt ineffectual.

    Anyway. But I was saying – even though I went along with it, I don’t have to hate myself (or him). Even though AJ hasn’t texted me in a while, it doesn’t mean he jas stopped liking me, or that he won’t text or call in the future.

    And just because I was having trouble saying “no” this week, it doesn’t mean I can’t learn to be more articulate and confident about voicing and otherwise communicating my “no” in the future…

    That’s my week

  152.  #152Beloved on January 9, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    So tonight I got stood up…well, he did allegedly text and call, but I didn’t get the messages/missed call log until after I had already left the house. They were marked 3 hours prior, and I KNOW I had checked my phone several times so IDK what is up with that.
    I just texted him, “Too bad, I’m wearing my new boots and they are kind of super hot.”
    Maybe I should have started with awww, but whatever, that’s what I typed.
    And I thought, I look TOO good to stay home tonight!
    I went to a place I love, got a margarita, and sat down to write.
    After a while, a man sat across and to my left and started a conversation, I moved to his table, and we talked and laughed for hours. AND, he invited me on a date to do the SAME thing I cancelled with M2 for tomorrow – to go ride the ferry and see the dolphins. On a day that isn’t freezing rain.
    Although I might still go out in the freezing rain tomorrow, just because.
    I feel like a Super Siren tonight 🙂

  153.  #153Mandy on January 9, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    Sirens…Help, I feel so much mental/emotional anguish…

    I know I need to break up with J. I just can’t get the guts!
    Is there a Rori post on how to dump a man so he will hear what you have to say and possibly be able to be friends afterwards? I want to be understanding and caring about it, but I just don’t know how to do it, because I’ve never done it before.

    He will have to get a new job and place and I know how hard that can be…I thought if I did give him the no more relationship speech, I may give him all he time in the world to move out, then he’ll still be taking advantage of me.

    I need him out ASAP, but I don’t want to harm his heart so bad I cause him a complex (not like he doesn’t already have enough of them.)

    VERY confused and so anxious/stressed I’ve been taking more anxiety meds than usual! Just talked to my Psychiatrist and he said YES he needs to go!

    It’s just like, breaking up with him as soon as his back pain has started- he’s going to think it’s that when it’s not at all.. The intimacy that is left is dying so fast I can hardly stay in the room with him.

    I feel so incredibly depressed I have to do this…so badly I haven’t been eating/sleeping exercising normally and sleeping more than usual because of the stress…

  154.  #154Victoria on January 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    I like sarcasm and wit and those can be fun at times and at other times you may close an invisible line so easily. Either way, somehow I just cant help teasing F and I laughs at me anD teases me back. But I think the thing he loves about me, the thing that really craves and for which he comes back for more is for me to tell him that he is hot and he is desirable…

  155.  #155Indigo on January 9, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    Labbit, Azure Blu & Feminine Woman,

    Thank you all so much. Your gentle Siren voices felt like the true friends that you are, and I felt good that I could share this experience with you.

    I have sold my horse to an exceptionally good home – the circumstances in my life are not conducive to me keeping her – what with me buying a flat and at the moment there isn’t the stimulation and company that she needs. Labbit, I loved your story of going to visit your pony and how you still had a strong connection with him! The new owners have said I can come and visit her whenever I want, and I fully intend to. One day when the time is right I will definitely have horses again, and who knows, I may even be able to buy her back.

    Labbit, I so relate to everything you say about your efforts to keep your heart open and receive. As I become good at leaning back, I need to make sure that I don’t shut down in any number of ways and this is a challenge, so I am right there with you. I am having dinner with a male friend tonight and I am going to practice opening my heart. Even resisting the urge to contact D and apologise for how Wednesday night went is a challenge, but Dominique helped me to realize that that is indeed controlling, which is shutting down, rather than leaning back and opening my heart. It’s not easy but it is exciting for me.

  156.  #156Indigo on January 9, 2015 at 11:30 pm

    Mandy 149,

    My feeling is that you have got to stop worrying about his feelings and how he will handle it and what he will think/feel etc….

    He is a grown man, not a little boy, and his feelings and thoughts are his responsibility and his business. He is more than capable of handling them himself and he does not need you to take them on. I see you going into masculine energy her, wanting to make it “ok” for him, wanting to sort all this out for him – he is a man, he can sort out his own health problems and his own living arrangements.

    Of course you want to be kind and fair to him, but I really think the way to do that is by having an honest discussion where you tell him that things aren’t working and that you need to move on, and you give him a date to move out. Not by making yourself sick and anxious and not eating or exercising properly because you are so worried about him. If it is on the cards for you to have a friendship, believe me, it will be so. PLEASE take care of yourself first, and trust him to do the same for himself.

    I am sending you love and hugs, I know this is not easy. (((Mandy)))

  157.  #157RileyTheOwl on January 9, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    Wow I’m not used to giving advice, so forgive me if I say something wrong!

    I feel like one of the best ways to end this relationship is to do so in a very gentle and tender hearted manner, as you still feel fond of J (?) And want him to know how you appreciate how he’s helped you along your journey.

    It’s important to say why you want to end the relationship, and yet not give them any room to offer promises of changing themselves. Maybe here is a good place to come up with a couple thoughtful feeling statements about why you’re ending the relationship?

    I’m just a teen and don’t have much experience with this, yet one thing I know that really helps is to talk about who you’re going to tell and when. Are you going to tell your family right away, or give a couple weeks of breathing room for J to get settled? Are you going to tell friends, and when? It also really feels better to the person being broken up with if you two come up with a statement which feels comfortable with both of you which you can tell to other people if they ask about the break up. What I mean is to agree with each other to tell friends that you “both decided together that it is for the best”, or anything that feels good to the both of you.

    I almost broke up with C once, and I remember feminine woman gave me some really good advice on how to do it kindly…. It’s on one of the threads from 2013, I’ll try to find it for you.

    I know my advice isn’t a lot. But I’m offering what i can.

    This can feel really scary and hard, and I completely believe in you siren, you can get through this(: sending love and support your way!

  158.  #158Victoria on January 9, 2015 at 11:40 pm

    I apologize for my poor writing in my previous post.
    I want to try to say it again better : sarcasm and wit can be very fun, if you manage to be sarcastic to yourself more than to him and to through in compliments and not stings with your wit. Men respond so well to compliments, check it out and watch him get hooked!

  159.  #159Gear on January 10, 2015 at 1:19 am

    Well, Labbit, I read several of your post from yesterday. I took note of it, and name it “Labbit wisdom” 🙂 I feel so look up to you now, as what you and written had so much depth in it. When I come to that stage in my relationship, I might need it.

    Sirens and Rori, I have watched and listened(while I am driving) “Targeting the right man” no less than 10 times, in last two months. “Dating script” a few times. Yesterday, as I listened “dating script again, I noticed something Rori said, “I can go this all day long.” When she was scripting how to converse with the man to get my point across, or to get what I need.

    Then I wonder, really? Do I need to go all day long? I barely had the patience to argue twice my point. (I know patience is a virtue, but do I really need it here?) I posted a couple of days ago that when my “no girlfriend” speech was not well received, I combated only one more time, then stopped. Between fight/argue/assert more about it and walk away, I choose to walk away. That’s normally my approach without even consciously knowing what I was doing.

    I wonder when Rori said that, was she just being illustrative, or was it really necessary? Really? Go all day long? My philosophy was if I had to say it more than once, it’s probably not worthy it-normally I would give up the person, and walk away. B/c if I give in at the moment to keep peace, eventually I would resent it, and walk away too.

    That’s why most of my dates lasted 3-4 dates, or less than two months. Only a handful called relationship lasted 3-5 months. That was the longest, in my whole life. I feel embarrassed even said this, 5 months was the longest relationship I had? Yep.

    Now as I write, I recall 16 years ago, when my first love of 3-4 months burst into pieces. He walked out, left me devasted. No, I didn’t go back to fix it. Is that because of that, I give up before being walked out?

    Back to the topic earlier, is it still a good relationship if I had to claim, ask for what I need, argue about my position(off course in the feeling messages) again and again! More than once, more than twice? Oh, and keep my heart unzipped all the time.

    Wasn’t that felt humiliating? Wasn’t that felt disappointing, when I was not getting what I needed or wanted/asked for? Wasn’t that felt invested? Anxious? Desperate? Aha, that’s why we CD, that’s why we get our needs met by other than the man…yes, yes, I got that, but, still….

    If I walked away, I would also feel humiliated, disappointed, anxious, even desperate, or would I?

    Do I have to protest, ask for, more than once, more than twice? Is it a healthy relationship in that case?

  160.  #160Veronica on January 10, 2015 at 2:04 am

    Indigo – 120 – Thank you. Xoxoxo I have to sit down and consciously undo that thinking – do I really want to be with someone who disappears when I show them my love? But my fear is not necessarily rational.

  161.  #161Veronica on January 10, 2015 at 2:05 am

    Azure – 123 – I feel challenged in a good way – I like it, thank you.

  162.  #162Veronica on January 10, 2015 at 2:06 am

    I feel uncomfortable with the story in the second article. How would I feel if my husband sent a student of his to prove a point? It feels cruel, malicious, as if I were treated as a plaything, being set up in a situation that is a hypothesis when I was the only one operating with thinking that this was the truth, that a love was happening that I get to choose. No I am not suggestible, I choose. That word ‘suggestible’ being the only defining word of me in this scenario that I’m being manipulated into proving/misproving. I would feel so deeply betrayed. This is deception. And I’m starting to have significant doubts about these articles. A pervasive sense of ‘control’ seems to emerge for me in these articles.

    Ew ew ew ew ew ew

  163.  #163Tereana on January 10, 2015 at 4:49 am

    I think so. I was trying to be positive. I feel like s sl*t. And it’s hard not to feel that, even if it doesn’t make me a “bad” person, that there’s something just not good about me.

    And I feel confused. How come when other people say “no,” it sticks and the people they say no to respect it? How come when I say “no,” it seems to be more of a challenge for the other person to “break me down,” turn my no into a yes, of cat least succeed in acquiescence. And why do I let them?

    Why do i have a momentary feeling of “success” with them when the moment comes that I totally reshape and reform myself to the thing that they asked? Why do I feel so proud, like “look at this amazing pretzel shape I can make!” You know, because I am so good at yoga. I feel so “flexible.” Everyone wants me to be flexible.

    Why do I feel so compelled to do what *other* people want? Why, after all these years, do I still not have a real connection to my true desires? Sometimes I don’t even know, do I want something or not?

  164.  #164Izzy on January 10, 2015 at 5:16 am

    I am in a relationship where the man is willing to give up his freedom for me, but I still don’t feel safe to be myself around him.
    When I share intimate stuff I get an ironic grin back and I feel distant, I feel closed off. I feel judgemental. I judge him
    as being immature and superficial.

    Also I like information and I like culture. I have studied a lot all my life, I feel excited discovering new things.

    I feel motivated when I find someone that knows what I am talking about. And with my guy is like… he knows nothing about nothing.
    It feels exhausting having to explain everything all the time. Even the most basic things. Should I explain to a man how to do taxes?
    He is only one year younger than me and I feel so much older because how can a person live that long and know nothing? I find myself feeling judgemental on this
    point all the time. It turns me off… I am having a hard time accepting this part of him.

    I want to feel safe to just be myself. Maybe I don’t feel safe inside? How do I get safe inside?

    I judge him. Am I judging myself?

    Am I trying to connect mentally when it should be emotionally? Is there anyway this relationship can work? What should I do?

  165.  #165Tereana on January 10, 2015 at 5:27 am

    Mandy…what if you do this (just an idea). Find some resources or give him some options of places to stay when you tell him.

    I get why you are scared. Because he has been emotionally using you and your compassion to let him stay. And it’s not ok anymore. Because it’s hurting *you.* I have a co-worker who divorced her husband for all very similar reasons. And they were married!! If she can do it, you can do it. You’ll feel stronger afterward.

    I want to say give him a time period. But you’re right. He needs to go now, and letting him stay even a little while will give him time to “change your mind” (similar to how I somerimes “change my mind” out of compassion and empathy – and end up doing things I don’t want to do. Ugh).

    So do some research in your area. Or maybe see if your friends/family would be willing to help you and him out. The trick is to do it in such a way that he doesn’t feel you’ve totally take away his choice. OR….you could just “close your heart” to him for a bit. Nasty as that sounds, it could allow you to focus on your needs instead of his. For now. And he will feel bad, but since he loves you, I predict that he will eventually want to remain friends…stay strong, Mandy!

  166.  #166Izzy on January 10, 2015 at 5:30 am

    I have to add that I feel taken care of when I am with him. I know he wants to make me happy…

    I feel lazy having to start all over again finding a new man… Have you ever felt that?

  167.  #167Tereana on January 10, 2015 at 5:31 am

    Beloved 148 – that’s awesome!! Way to go out and make the most of the moment : )

  168.  #168Mistea1 on January 10, 2015 at 5:43 am

    Riley the owl 153,
    Please no need to apologise for giving advice at your age. You are as wise as your name “the owl” implies. One thing I’ve found is that advanced physical age doesn’t have any relation to emotional age. I am many many years older than you and I remember as I started on this small skirmish with MusicTd thinking how much I felt like I was about 15 years old. Yikes! A humbling experience for me and I managed a national program for a number of years.

    I liked your advice a lot.

  169.  #169Victoria on January 10, 2015 at 6:04 am

    Riley and Mistea,
    I also loved the way Riley gives advice…It is charming and humble, I just loved what she said, and I also think very young people can be very wise when it comes to matters of the heart.

  170.  #170Mistea1 on January 10, 2015 at 6:21 am

    Tereana 146,
    I think you have touched on something. I.E. “the master at projection, and the you really want me, and I haven’t decided”.
    I commented to a family member that MusicTd wants to dominate a non-relationship. I was confused. Now I think it is because his ego is so huge he has to control everything in his realm. I will not have it.

    I liked the first Rabbi B article about how men are intimdated by womens sensuousness. Reflecting back I think the turning point was my doing the looking at him sensuously when he addressed the audience. I liked it because I felt turned on giving myself permission to ‘look’. The next day when I saw him I knew he was still “turned on”. Then immediately the ‘punishing’ began, very subtle and not so subtle at times. It has continued for the last 2 months. The article by the Rabbi really clarified the issue for me.
    You have been very helpful.

    Yes, the feeling like a slut and feeling like you are not good enough is intended because this is how they handle their insecurity.

    Compelled to do what ‘they want’. For me it was a matter of maturity. I don’t know how it happens but eventually I grew stronger and through meditation and other help I’m getting better. It seems to be a life long journey.

  171.  #171Mistea1 on January 10, 2015 at 6:40 am

    Victoria 154,
    Looks like you are holding that baby bird gentler and gentler each time. Good!

    I’m really aware of using sarcasm and wit as a shielding device. I practiced this so badly with MusicTd. Lawguy and I are still emailing and not meeting face to face so care of what I write is needed. I feel very vulnerable even with the writing though. I am putting a compliment in every email.

    It is blessedly quiet with MusicTd gone. I am playing the organ now, badly but it is fun. I laugh out loud when it sounds good. Then yesterday the pictures and ads are starting to show up for the big birthday celebration. I am less triggered though so that is good to know.

  172.  #172Gear on January 10, 2015 at 6:44 am

    Lazy, 160&162
    I feel smiling while I was reading your comments. I know what you were talking about, I still caught myself feeling like the men knew no so little, it does not matter if they older or younger. Except now, I am not feeling their knowledge of the world, but practical life skills, a guy friend, C came over last night finally tighten up the pipe under the sink. While a few days ago while he was here, he said I didn’t buy the right size of the ring to connect the pipe. (And he couldn’t take off the old, broken ring.) he asked me go back to Home Depot to exchange. Then a couple of days ago, I tried it myself, I knew I bought the right ring, I managed to take off the old, broken ring myself, and put the new one on, except I couldn’t tighten it up. When he called, I told him, he volunteered to come last night.

    I don’t judge him, but I thought I need to slow down myself, and do less things. Or no man can serve me. Though I am not saying Guy C is a good fit for me, irrelevant of the case above.

    You seem answered your own questions, I feel I understand more now that it’s what he can make me feel matters. Does he desire to please me.


  173.  #173Sophie on January 10, 2015 at 6:58 am

    Mandy I feel such anguish reading your post – it transports me back to those 9 months of 2014 when I could not get B to leave my house and I was making myself sick for the sake of his feelings. I want to comment on your post bit by bit but it will allll be coming from what I experienced and what I now feel retrospectively.

    Sirens…Help, I feel so much mental/emotional anguish… (if you want to there’s a feeling message right there. J, I feel mental and emotional anguish and I don’t want to feel like this a moment longer)

    I know I need to break up with J. I just can’t get the guts! (You need all the love and self-compassion right now – is it really about ‘having guts’? Even if it, love yourself for wanting not to hurt another, don’t reject yourself) ((((mandy and her big heart)))

    Is there a Rori post on how to dump a man so he will hear what you have to say and possibly be able to be friends afterwards? I want to be understanding and caring about it, but I just don’t know how to do it, because I’ve never done it before.

    I agree with Indigo on this one, share your feelings in an authentic and assertive way and negotiate a date (a soon date) – I believe he will still want to be your friend if that works for him – we can’t ever know what another person will want or do though can we?…or bend ourselves in enough different directions to try to ensure a certain outcome. Ultimately, we have to do what’s right for us, which in my opinion is look after our needs first and be honest. I hope I am learning this, that 9 months with B has definitely brought out a bit more of a me-first protective tigress and that’s no bad thing. I’m sure you won’t be unkind, you sound like me (too kind).

    He will have to get a new job and place and I know how hard that can be…I thought if I did give him the no more relationship speech, I may give him all he time in the world to move out, then he’ll still be taking advantage of me.

    Absolutely agree with Indigo and others on this one. I took responsibility for B’s needs for 9 months. I kept allowing him one way or another to manipulate me into allowing him to stay – I felt afraid he’d have nowhere to go blah blah He is a grown man and he can resolve it for himself – YOU are the one who is suffering here.

    I need him out ASAP, but I don’t want to harm his heart so bad I cause him a complex (not like he doesn’t already have enough of them.)

    I felt the same, I didn’t want to cause harm but what I did was harm my heart very very badly.

    VERY confused and so anxious/stressed I’ve been taking more anxiety meds than usual! Just talked to my Psychiatrist and he said YES he needs to go!

    I did the same, everyone told me B needed to go, it took me 9 months. I had to try and love on myself hard in that time and hopefully learnt a lot. I would feel so sad to see you have to go through anything like I went through.

    It’s just like, breaking up with him as soon as his back pain has started- he’s going to think it’s that when it’s not at all.. The intimacy that is left is dying so fast I can hardly stay in the room with him.

    There’s another feeling message ‘ I feel afraid that you will think this is to do with your back pain but I feel unhappy about the lack of intimacy between us and I have for a while. I now know I want/need for you to leave. I don’t want to feel this way anymore.’

    I feel so incredibly depressed I have to do this…so badly I haven’t been eating/sleeping exercising normally and sleeping more than usual because of the stress…

    I completely understand – I want to give you all the hugs. It would feel so good to hear you be kind to yourself. You are wonderful, have been wonderful and are now unhappy. You know what you need, I hope you find a way to put your needs first. So much love to you xxxxx

  174.  #174Victoria on January 10, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Thank you, yes you are very right.
    I am holding very gently. There is a part of me
    which is very afraid working with this new strategy. What if he is just who he is, not my one, not my hero, what if he is a waste of time and I am just too weak to just kick him out and make space for the real one.
    I am talking with my NVs now, I have invited them to tea in the living room of my soul and we are having small talk with them about the weather, the games people play, and what not.

  175.  #175Sophie on January 10, 2015 at 7:09 am

    All other sirens, I am so far behind I wouldn’t even know where to start commenting. Off on a big journey tomorrow back across the border. My move to the next beach was a good one.I felt much more peaceful and was able to relax and focus on my work. I met a beautiful, gentle (much younger man) who I befriended – but bed-friending is just not on my agenda right now.

    I saw crush man again after nearly a week of my disappearing act and it felt great – he looked absolutely startled to see me and after i’d walked away had to call me back to ask for my contact details. yeeessss. I felt really good about that. Empowered. I did what was best for ME! and did not get sucked into his stuff, or my patterns. Yay yay yay. Practice,practice, practice.

  176.  #176Tereana on January 10, 2015 at 7:28 am

    So…I’ll admit I was feeling kind of bad this morning. My mood can often be self-inflicting when I first wake up.

    But now I feel better. Writing here helped – so that I didn’t reach out to AJ and write something damaging. And I came up with something else…a new way to think about the word “sl*t” :

    Under no obligation
    To be chaste

    So that actually makes me feel pretty good. And the momeht I start “beating myself up” because AJ wanted us to “wait” until he’s back in town to do anything – which will be in two weeks – I can relax. We don’t have a “relationship.” He’s not even offering me one. I am free to do what I want. And if I wanted to sleep with this Guy – and lets be honest, I did – I am free to do that.

    So if that makes me a “sl*t” so be it.

    My new acronym says it all…

  177.  #177Andrea on January 10, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Tereana 159 & Cherise 132
    oooooooo mmmmmmmm ouch…. oh I feel so in tune with what you both have written here.
    Turning into pretzels, compromises to soothe the man, so aware of how much we tear ourselves apart in order to make someone else happy, so out of touch with our true desires… I know I know I know

    AND I’m learning, practicing, getting deep into the heart of my pleasing other people self, finding a superior satisfaction there that served me once…. I feel a pride in knowing I can please him, I can read what he wants and I can shape and shift and be something else and make him “Happy”…

    And i’m learning that in the end, He never really does get happy because he’s never met the real me. And I never am happy because I am not being True ME. I’m not showing up. I’m not present.

    AND I’m learning. I’m getting better. My constant REAL actual prayer to God, on my knees in the morning before I face my day….

    “Please help me to stay present. It’s only in Your presence that I am at peace. It’s only in the Present Moment that I Am in Your true presence. I want THAT! Dear saviour, I want That. Your presence, Your peace, moment by moment.”

    And I remind myself of that prayer when I begin to slip out of it and into worry about future, past, other people’s “thoughts”, my perception of what other people want.

    Help me to SHOW UP, truly, fully, ME. And give me the strength to FACE ME, to OWN ME, to STAY with me.

    Give me the peace and strength to stay here in this moment with ME. I love ME. I want to be with ME in the moments that make up my day. I want to hear my wisdoms and feelings and sorrows and joys. I want to share in this experience with ME. Let me STAY with ME. I want to BE with ME.

  178.  #178Sophie on January 10, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Tereana 🙂 I love the re-framing 🙂

  179.  #179Emerson on January 10, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Hi Sirens, I have a couple more dates lined up from my online dating experiment 🙂

    I met one man last week that I really liked, he asked to exchange numbers when we parted ways, and I agreed.

    I have not heard from him and it has been about a week. *shrug*…even tho I like him I feel ok. He will either contact me, or he won’t! I have felt tempted to lean forward and message him, but I won’t do that. He has my number.

    He gave me a cozy hug at the end, it was really nice.
    Anyways, these other men I’m meeting this week are interesting as well. So I feel curious and excited to see what happens.

    Meanwhile, RecycledCD keeps texting me, and I’m not replying. again *shrug*…lol…well it’s not like me not to reply, so I’m sure he is wondering…I don’t care though. What he thinks is none of my business.

    In the meantime I am taking care of me and getting a mani today. Yay! Maybe a spray tan too…haha

  180.  #180Emerson on January 10, 2015 at 8:26 am

    I feel thankful for Rori’s tools and all of you sirens, because in using the tools and with your support I feel free of any man’s grip on my emotions, at least at the moment…As soon as I feel piney or fixated…I remember what one of you or Rori has said to not put any one man on a pedestal and to keep options open and CD!!!! Until one steps up and the situation feels right….
    I feel free from my painful emotional roller coaster with RecycledCD ….he has no power over me…
    I feel like I am actually breaking free from it…
    And I can meet other men, like the one I met last week…even if he does not call it is ok…
    I feel inspired to take care of me and be open…
    Thank you Sirens and Rori.

  181.  #181Andrea on January 10, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Some wonderful developments for me:

    On New Years Day, Baby Daddy showed up at my door, homeless, jobless.
    I rescued.. I went into full out rescue mode. I went into complete.. I know what is best for your life and let me take care of you and handle your business for you and tell you what to do and whom to avoid and and and

    I also blame you and regret choosing you and resent you and dislike you and dislike myself in your presence and and and

    I want you out of my life.

    Then one morning while working out I had a flip around moment where I felt in a huge deep horrifying way… “He wants ME out of his life.”
    And why wouldn’t he? I nag, judge, resent, ick ick ick all over him.
    My daughters watch me do it.

    Yes, I was angry. Yes, his life circumstances are due to his poor choices and irresponsibility with money and drinking. Yes, I have every right to my own opinion. But here he was, in my life and I was completely missing out on the message.

    I just stopped my script. I stopped beating up on him in my mind. I went home and faced him and I told him….

    “Charles, I feel so worn out and judgmental and exhausted.”

    And we had THE BEST conversation that we’ve probably ever had. And then a few days later I got a Christmas bonus from work and I purchased him a one way ticket back to Seattle.

    He was out of his element in my city, in my life, in my home. When we, as a whole family, my daughters, Charles, and I; that giving him this gift of a ticket back to Seattle was the best option for ALL of us, I felt such peace.

    I felt a huge oppression lifted off of my chest. I realized I had been feeling responsible for him since the day he arrived in our city back in July. I had been feeling weighted down. During his duration in our city I had been all up in his business, clenching my fingers, hoping he would find a job, get an apartment, take some responsibility for our girls. And honestly, I was so busy clinging tightly to my own thoughts about the way things SHOULD go, that I missed out on a lot of blessings and a lot of noticing with joy the way things actually were.

    I feel regretful about that part of it, but I feel such relief that he is no longer in my city. I hope I learned what I needed to learn from him.

    Once I was able to relax around him, once I knew he was headed home, once I was at peace with his situation, we actually had three days of enjoyment around each other.

    We watched movies, cooked together, talked a whole whole lot. Once I saw him as just a man, just another person on this planet trying his hardest to make do with what he had to make do with, I was able to simply BE around him.

    One day, he and I were alone in my home. I had just returned from working out and a feeling came over me of… “What is wrong with me? Why haven’t I had any kind of substantial relationship in over twelve years? Why haven’t I found my partner? Why aren’t I married?”

    I realized that I had a source of knowledge right in front of me, so I asked Charles.

    “Is something wrong with me? Am I icky? Or ugly? Or do I give off some kind of vibe that keeps men away? Am I gross? Am I really THAT difficult to get along with? Why don’t I have a relationship?”

    And he was so so so sweet. He really listened to me. He really understood that I was longing for love and true partnership. He really accepted that he was not the One. And he sat down and gave me great insight into his male perspective of me.

    Number one he told me, “No, Andrea. My gosh. You are NOT gross. You are not icky. You’re lovely. You’re beautiful. You’re strong. You’re impressive and motivated to improve yourself in the areas that you don’t feel the most confident in. You’re an asset.”

    BUT!!! Then he told me how I push men away, how I build up this big thick wall that is impenetrable, how I give off this energy that I need to micro manage every aspect of life, how it might make me feel comfortable to do that, but how it scares men off. He told me how, when I drink I get really mean and abnoxious and put people down in a big way, how sarcastic and cutting I can be, how little I respect men in general, and how I don’t give men a chance.
    He told me that I’m attractive but not soft, that I’m generous but not appreciative.

    And he told me these things in such a gentle, helpful way. He really opened up to me and sat me in front of a mirror. And I was amazed that he saw all that in me. Without accusing me, he was simply saying that if I really want someone in my life, I have to actually let someone IN.

    Jeesh… I still feel shaky.

    He left Thursday morning. I have this strange suspicion that it may be a long long time before I ever see him again. I feel… end of an era in many ways.

    I feel sad and I feel seen and I feel free and I feel relief. But I feel scared as well. I feel kind of cracked open and a little bit naked, exposed, like … now that I have seen into some inner core, and now that I realize Charles saw it…. who else knows? Who else can see that hard, scared, crusted over part of me?

    And who am I if I let that cover go? Who am I if I come out from under my shell?

    And I wonder if I am going to come out from under my shell……..

  182.  #182Gear on January 10, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Emerson, 175,176 good one. I can feel that you are more equipped now with RR’s tools and your love for beautiful self. Ready for your next journey. Yay! I am cheer you on.

    Andrea, 173, beautiful prayer. It works! Hang in there. I also had the same problem, much better now. Feel so relieved to stay in the moment, doesn’t it, Yay, you!

    It feels like siren island is resembling the feminine energy today, recharge, regrouping as RR had put it. Myself included.

    I feel love in the siren island. Off to my date for lunch. Enjoy your day, sirens.

  183.  #183Andrea on January 10, 2015 at 9:33 am

    I realized too that I have all these judgments and opinions about the way men are SUPPOSED to act and be.

    And then, at the same time, I have all these fears that I am not acting or being the way that I am SUPPOSED to be.

    Before I can love a man, he needs to do, act, be like this.
    Before I can allow myself to be loved I need to do, act, be like this.

    I want to stand before somebody and just say… Here I am, is there any possible way you could just love me AS IS? Please??

  184.  #184a woman on January 10, 2015 at 10:01 am

    I feel I’m beating myself up today. I added someone I like from work on FB on now I regret it. Even though I added all the other people from work as well and thought it would be weird if I would skip him, I feel like I’ve leaned forward. I wish I knew how I will feel before adding him. But it’s good to know I got trigger, it’s a sign that I still have big issues to work on.

    Now I’m trying to figure out why do I feel so because of nothing. Firstly, I haven’t been on a date for more than two weeks now, I am putting too much energy around this guy. I must get my Diva-rockstar attitude back before I return to my old self

  185.  #185a woman on January 10, 2015 at 10:37 am

    Something clicked- I have an extreme fear of rejection. Even though I rarely show it on the outside (possibly never), on the inside it’s eating my soul.

    Talking about Facebook, every time I post a picture I wonder if others will like it and how many likes will it get, it’s super silly, I know! I often shut down and stay quiet because I fear others will not approve my opinion or think I’m stupid. It’s even more silly.

    I look like a very confident person, I don’t there’s anyone who’s actually aware how I am inside. I have loads of issues from childhood, I have improved, I’ve changed everything about myself, but deep down I still feel like that shy, stupid kid who’s feeling guilty for being on this plant and who’s got bend and bow in front of everybody to please them. That deep insecurity that still exists somewhere in my body body is often “visiting” me, and when it does it changes how I stand, sit and talk. Like a little demon…

    Why is it coming back? Is that a part of me that I’m fighting away? Is that the most important part of me that I need to love and embrace so it would stop controlling me?… Not too sure how to do that, but it’s super important that I find a way….

  186.  #186Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Ohhhh…. MY!!!!
    I can hear your lovely Siren song throughout the Universe… It is a beautiful sound!!!

    These are such powerful posts!!

    Such a wonderful prayer!!
    I want to STAY in each and every wonderful minute
    of experiencing ME!!!

    How lovely you were able to flip your heart about Charles!!!

    How BRAVE and vulnerable for you are to ask how he sees you…
    and how vulnerable and authentic of him to share his thoughts…
    I am thinking what man I could ask this same question to… it would be so helpful…
    Thank you gentle Siren for sharing all
    that is YOU with US!!!

  187.  #187Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 10:56 am

    awoman #181
    I too have experienced that person inside of me…

    I found HER in Rori’s DVD “Toxic men”

    In that DVD Rori has Many exercises she quides you through to help you find YOURSELF and LOVE ALL of YOU!!!
    One of the exercises is finding Your “Stranger”
    Mines’ name is Lydia – she was huge, ugly, and vomiting hate and rage… I asked Lydia to help me, and share her power with me…
    Rori guides you through the process…
    You call her by a name… and so forth…

  188.  #188Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Emerson #175
    I agree with Gear….
    I feel happy and inspired by your posts
    and you too are singing
    A calm and gentle Siren song…
    Ahhh I love hearing it!!!

  189.  #189Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Victoria #170
    Ahhh… Lovely
    Tea with the NV…

  190.  #190Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Sophie, #171
    Lovely one…
    I feel happy and warm to hear from you here on Siren Island…
    I am sending you safe and happy vibrations for your next travels.
    YES… such a Siren to have stayed away from Toxic man!
    he came forward – he was more free therapy!!

  191.  #191Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Izzy #162
    Yes… I feel that way every time I know
    the man isn’t the right one for me…

    WHY cant he be Mr. Right…

    Do I not know how to go to the next
    phase in a relationship…???


    I’m going through this right now with
    Spirit… ;-/

  192.  #192Tee on January 10, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Is there a procedure here for posting? Seems like I’m not getting anywhere and that makes me angry, sad and pissed off.

  193.  #193Elena on January 10, 2015 at 11:55 am

    I need advice about a situation.. Im not sure what to do. Please Rory, I would love a response or anyone else.

    I have been dating a man for 5 months who has been separated for 9 months. He was in a 10 year marriage but relationship had turned into a friendship and they decided to end it. No kids.

    Everything was going well, we talked about exclusivity by the first/second month and I decided to become exclusive (yikes I know) but I felt like he was giving me what I needed. A lot of future talk, moving in together/getting married. I am 24 he is 36. After the holidays I came back from visiting my parents, and he told me he had been having a rough time. He felt like he was living a double life because he was still very much in touch with his wife and her family. Wife’s parents call him “son” and hes really close to his nephews, his sister in law’s children. He doesnt have much family on his own so her family became his family. He feels a big burden and doesnt know when he will be able to make it official to sign the divorce papers. He says he doesnt know how to bring it up to his wife because he knows it will still be a very emotional thing for both of them but he is sure he would never get back together.

    My question is.. should I end it? or should I start circular dating and put him on my circular rotation? We agreed to meet up and talk about what we wanted to do in 1 week. Part of me feels like the circular rotation thing would work and another part of me feels like .. he’s a married man and I should not be involved. It was my assumption getting divorced with the next step for them but he doesnt know how soon he will be able to do that. He tells me he is very afraid to lose me and does not want to lose contact but that he needs the relationship to slow down. That it is not fair to drag me into this and he doesnt want me to wait for him.

    Any advice would be great. Thank you!

  194.  #194Violette on January 10, 2015 at 12:25 pm


    I haven’t wanted to comment on the blog because I felt unsafe the last time, but I do want to say that I related to your post. I have what feels like the same relationship you describe, and my man is 14 years older. And I judge him and I judge myself for judging him, and I feel so warm and cared for with him and also like I can’t be myself around him because he takes so little interest in the things I know about, basic cultural life interesting stuff and I find myself having to explain everything I say. I really don’t know what to do and it feels awful because I love the guy and…

    Anyway I just want to say that to you. I feel relieved I’m not the only one who feels this way at any rate.

  195.  #195RileyTheOwl on January 10, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    158 Veronica,
    I feel the same way about the articles 🙁 I felt really weird reading them. I actually couldn’t make it through all of the first one, and the second one was just really weird to me… Not what I was hoping them to be like at all.

    I felt really analyzed, like I was being put under a microscope and being told what I should be wanting. I too also got the feeling that the woman was a “plaything”… Who on earth would want their husband to do something like that??!!! Geesh.
    I’m feeling exasperated.

  196.  #196Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    I know you have mentioned this before…
    are you sure you are clicking on the bottom button
    of the “Leave a Comment” that says
    “Submit Comment”??
    Just a thought…
    otherwise I have no idea…

    Any other Sirens Have ideas?

  197.  #197Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    RileyOwl and Veronica,
    I too did not like the articles and was
    so surprised RR spent time
    with them..
    I have seen his reality show a few years ago
    and I liked him alot…
    He helped families change patterns that
    were tearing them apart…
    All about being vulnerable and authentic and unzipping your heart…
    I didn’t get that feeling at ALL in these articles!

  198.  #198RileyTheOwl on January 10, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Mistea 164 and Victoria 165

    Ohhh, thank you so I much!!! These compliments feel so relieving to read, and I’m feeling a lot more comfortable on the blog now. Often here I hold back from giving advice, as I am really young here and don’t feel like i know enough to tell the more experienced people here of my take on situations. I almost didn’t post that message to Mandy, so I’m glad that a couple others here “approve” of my advice. Thank you(:

  199.  #199Azure Blu on January 10, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    (((Viollett #189))))
    I feel sad
    I’m sorry you felt judged here on Siren Island
    How vulnerable for you
    sharing this now..
    thank you…
    What happened to make you feel this way?

  200.  #200Mistea1 on January 10, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Victoria 154,
    Looks like you are holding that baby bird gentler and gentler each time. Good!

    I’m really aware of using sarcasm and wit as a shielding device. I practiced this so badly with MusicTd. Lawguy and I are still emailing and not meeting face to face so care of what I write is needed. I feel very vulnerable even with the writing though. I am putting a compliment in every email.

    It is blessedly quiet with MusicTd gone. I am playing the organ now, badly but it is fun. I laugh out loud when it sounds good. Then yesterday the pictures and ads are starting to show up for the big birthday celebration. I am less triggered though so that is good to know.

    This might have gotten posted already, computer glitch

  201.  #201Mandy on January 10, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    Tereana and Sophie,

    Thank you. I notice it isn’t just about his sexual neglect, it’s everything. He won’t respond when I say something I find amusing. He just sits in silence. I read this article the other day comparing a girl’s boyfriend to a pack of hotdogs, and it really hit home:

    Sigh. I still love him, if I didn’t I could tell him to hit the road easily. But Tereana, I am closing my heart to him. I have decided to leave him be for the most part and not really even try to pay attention to him, and try to feel what it would be like to live alone – with him, it’s not hard to do…since he’s basically a pack of hot dogs and I thought he was my boyfriend this whole time 😛

  202.  #202Mandy on January 10, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    God I feel so much yearning to say my piece.

    To say,

    “This is not a real relationship”.

    “I feel neglected and I’m tired of trying to fix it.”

    “I don’t know how much longer I can live this way”.

    “We are masquerading as boyfriend and girlfriend.”

    I even wanna say…

    “I feel I am being used”.

    “I don’t feel like you are really that into me.”

    “I’m tired of feeling like I have no control over my own situation.”

    “I am tired of feeling stupid overtime I say something and I get no response.”

    He feels bad for himself any time i say any of this…it’s all about him, he doesn’t hear me, he just says, “Now I feel like less of a person.”

    And then I feel like saying “What about ME??? What about my suffering in silence just so you don’t have to feel bad for like one minute?”

    So nothing I can say will work with him. He just shuts down and gets angry and upset.

    I need to express myself and feel safe doing it. I wish I had the Toxic Men program because I feel like I’m dealing with one of the most Toxic guys I’ve ever met, a manipulative, cold, self-serving man.

    I want to say part of me hates him now. I love him so much it just turns to hate.

    I can’t stand how he is in he way of my life.

  203.  #203Victoria on January 10, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    I am having mixed feelings from your post about the babies daddy…On the one hand I feel good that you feel you had a good conversation and the relief of his departure. But also I am somehow hurt by what he said about being generous and not appreciative. I feel I am pissed that he would say that given how kind and hospitable and generous you have been to him. And I suspect that being a single mother who puts the interest of her children first explains much better why you have not married to another man which could have led to more children. I admire you for willingness to improve your personality ( we women do that a lot) but I would just disregard what he said… and say to myself how wonderful I am to have helped him, one more time.

  204.  #204Victoria on January 10, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    Have you figured what you will do when he is gone? Do you have CDs, friends who will support you? Breaking up with someone you both love and hate is a big deal, and you will need courage, inner strenght and well intentioned friends/relatives. And activities to do to fill the emptiness, this always comes when we break up with someone even if the relationship was bad.

  205.  #205Mistea1 on January 10, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    I’m going to take on both the articlea as I see them through my issue.
    During my marriage this happened to me and because of the children I thought this was the thing to do. I realized later that I needed the sensuous to continue to live. More importantly I needed the sensousness to feed my imagination, creativity and joy of living. I had no art, no writing and no music left to me while in this state.

    It has taken many years to recover from this. Just when I thought I had recovered I met MusicTd. It took me awhile to figure out that these little punishments he gave me was to try and dominate me into not being my sensuous self. The punishments consisted of trying to make ‘coffee dates’ with others in front of me. Not stepping up to the plate on a project of mine. Making a point of letting me know he was ignoring me etc.

    It started after i did ‘the look’ during one of his audience addresses. It turned me on too and was a lot of fun. The next day though he was still very affected. Within 5 minutes of proposing the little project he started the above punishments and they continue. I know I affected him from the beginning and maybe he thought he had more control of his emotions than that. I proved him wrong. I don’t know. The Rabbi’s article seems to ring true here.
    “To get out of feeling inept and inadequate and more importantly to stay in control he subconsciously and systematically douses the embers of her sexuality.”

    My ex-husband did that and I’m getting the same feeling from MusicTd. He is massively controlling but I am resisting and he doesn’t like that.

    The story of Bruriah made sense to me in the context of what I have learned about my music experience. I learned that music bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the heart. Music can penetrate the heart, mind, body, and soul causing an orgasmic experience. Per MusicTd both men and women are affected by this.

    Bruriah “discovered that human passion in fact trumps intellect. ” This quote in the story doesn’t say ‘women’ only but that ‘human’ passion does. I assume the story means both men and women as does my comment about music.
    I have been using this experience to work on some of my own issues, abandonment being one. Another issue I have is trust. It is a big one too. Trust in my self to keep me safe. Trust in self , others, and universe to bring me only good. Trust my own intuition. Trust enables me to live with an open heart. Trust that I can put my life into his/His hands for safe keeping. I’ve been working on this one off and on since 11-15-14.

    Today I felt very afraid for a few hours. If it is true that human passion trumps intellect and I accept his controlling ways into my heart, then my sensuality and life force will be snuffed out. I know as sure as I know anything that human passion trumps intellect. This then would be a death sentence for me in all ways. I began to look for a way out. I can go to another church. I can move away, I can run, get sick, etc,etc.

    Then I remembered my trust issue. I had to smile to myself that my divine force has put this front and center for me to learn something. Do I really trust myself to keep myself safe or am I going to plunge into him as a moth to the flame? Do I live in a safe universe or not? Can I trust and keep my heart open that the best will be done for each one?

    The story is too simplistic I felt to address how to navigate between her passion and self preservation. But things do get lost in translation.

    Perhaps something like throwing myself on God’s mercy and saying ‘thy will be done’ accepting that and go on with life confidently and with trust.

    I must say that I don’t know really what decision I would make even in the face of possible annihlation.

  206.  #206Gear on January 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    Victoria 199. I like your comment. And I appreciated where you were from.

    I had a good date today. I haven’t had such a good date in a long time. Just a simple lunch. He text me a picture on Wednesday after he setup the date with me on tuesday. A picture of the dinner he had last night as self- teasing. We text back and forth, at the end I mentioned I am Daniel’s fast.

    Today when he called me he asked, if I have any restaurants to suggest in my neighborhood to fit more my fasting. I said, it felt good that you asked. We could go to the restaurant that you picked, I am sure I can find some salad. He said he was not sure, and asked me suggest. So I proposed a couple of options. Then we went to one vegan restaurant 10 minutes from my home.

    The conversation went so well,so naturally flowed. I told him that I felt so good that he considered my diet, though I had not expected changing restaurant.

    In general I felt so great, the distance between us was so shortened by our conversation. He also said,”It is amazing this is first date.”

    I feel much better now knowing that I am not the super picky woman, there is just some men would click with me more than others. My feelings and intuitions are working for me. I don’t have to justify my feelings, my feelings are certain way for a reason. No, I am not picky or discriminating. 🙂

  207.  #207Tee on January 10, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    #177 Andrea, your situation sounds similar to mine. What an awesome turn around! 🙂

    #191 Azure, Yes I am pressing the right button but it seems like my posts show up once in a while. I thought maybe it was because I was using my cell so I tried to post on a relatives computer. Same problem.

  208.  #208Femininewoman on January 10, 2015 at 8:00 pm


  209.  #209Mandy on January 10, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Oh boy Victoria I’m so glad you asked, so I can tall;k about he fun positive stuff that will happen once he is out of the way!

    Oh, I feel SO confident about when he is gone…that part will be easy as can be for me…peace in my own apartment, living how I want, doing what I want, seeing who I want! 🙂

    I used the CDing when I was single before him and I was never happier…I am very confident in my social/personal skills, a social butterfly, an extrovert who can talk to almost anyone and genuinely enjoy it. After he’s gone comes the FUN PART! 🙂

    I intend on meeting more professional men without so much BAGGAGE, lol, and just staying single and NOT agreeing to be anyone’s girlfriend until they give me an offer I can’t refuse (A happy life as their wife, maybe?)

    Rori’s CDing tool is THE BEST ever, THE BEST!!!! 🙂

  210.  #210Gear on January 10, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    Andrea 177, wow! It feels amazing! The conversation you had with Charles. May the healing continue…
    I don’t know if I would be vulnerable and trusting enough to ask that question. So some healing here for me to catch up…
    Hugs to you! So beautiful!

  211.  #211Emerson on January 10, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    Sirens,if you go on a coffee date to meet a new CD such as one you meet online…do you set a time limit? I’m just curious.

  212.  #212Indigo on January 10, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    Andrea 177,

    I really admire your courage in being able to ask your ex for his insights into why you have not met the right man, and in being able to hear what he had to say. That would have been quite painful for me, I think – necessary to hear his perspective, I think, but painful.

    I did a similar thing with my ex-husband, and wow, it was so painful. Having to hear the various ways that he didn’t feel respected/appreciated/loved when we were together was very painful, because I loved him very deeply and appreciated him a lot. But it was a useful exercise for me to realize that sometimes the way we feel about someone doesn’t always come through – or sometimes it is not what they hear or feel, either because of the way we are expressing it, or because of issues of their own. With this in mind, I would encourage you not to take what your ex has said as a 100% reflection of you, because it was just as much about his ability to feel and see you and to be in relationship, ie. his stuff, as it was about you. I agree with Victoria that you can really love on yourself and praise yourself for how kind and generous you have been to him.

    I find that the men I’ve been deeply involved with have been amazing teachers. They are constantly reflecting things back to me that I can refine and so help me to be the person I want to be, and they are loving and patient enough to stick around while you do this work. They are not perfect, but there is a part of me that is deeply grateful for this, for people who have the courage to stick it out, to continue on the journey with me.

  213.  #213Indigo on January 10, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    Emerson 205,

    I find an hour is plenty for the first coffee date! I’ve had first dates that have gone on for 3 hours etc. and it can feel strained with someone you don’t know.

    I think you want to keep it short and light, keep your energy up and leave him wanting more.

  214.  #214IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 3:32 am

    Wow, I feel seen, heard, & appreciated on the blog and that feels so amazing. Thank you, ladies! 🙂

    I feel embarrassed that I feel so hungry for validation lately.

    Hmm, what are some ways I can validate myself?

    I also feel worried about becoming too self-absorbed. Learning about narcissistic personality disorder has me feeling worried about that.

    I think there is something to serving others so diligently that you sort of forget about yourself.

    I heard a quote that resonates deeply with me:

    “The happiest day of your life is the day when you don’t even think about yourself, not even once.”

    I have found this to be true. It’s how I feel when I’m with someone I truly love…

  215.  #215IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 3:35 am

    Obviously, you would need to have all of your basic needs being met in order to be able to forget about yourself.

    But, I have experienced that “forgetting of oneself” & it’s my definition of bliss.

    I miss that…

  216.  #216IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 3:43 am

    (((((Andrea)))))) – I love this, I get this, I feel this.

    I know we’re not really supposed to talk about religion on the blog, but I find this kind of love and acceptance in J3sus.

    I feel tired of almost apologizing for my religious beliefs. I should not have to.

    I guess I just feel so afraid of offending someone, or of not being understood.

    I know everyone has their own “truths” based on their vast variety of life experiences, & I totally get that. But I also believe in one, absolute truth.

    This feels good to acknowledge…

  217.  #217IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 3:51 am

    @200 ((((((Mistea1)))))))) – I feel so moved by this, by your strength. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your open heart.

  218.  #218Andrea on January 11, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Oh I feel so strange this morning. So strange.
    I had an episode yesterday in which I lost my car keys at work. I went straight into a panic realizing that I have no one to call. I have no one to help me, to rescue me; no one who will willingly drop their day to run to me…

    I felt so alone, so outrageously alone. Finally one of the guests, a woman at our hotel, found them and she gave me a big hug. I went to my truck and cried and cried and cried.

    I told her, “Maybe I just needed that hug.”

    She said, “There really is a God.”

    I just bawled and bawled alone in my truck. I realized that I needed that cry as well. I needed to grieve Charles’s departure, but more than that, I needed to let go of all of my hopes and dreams and clinging on to the idea that my girls and their father and I can be (the kind of family that I wanted.) I needed to let go of my hold on that outcome.

    I want a functional family. I want a husband. I want my daughters to experience the love of a good role model, father figure. I want me to experience the love, protection, and companionship of a good husband.

    I cried for all of my desires. I cried for all of my yearning. Then I turned the key in the ignition and went home.

    I can’t fix this. I can’t MAKE this happen. I can only….

    I keep feeling God saying to me: “My love, my child, I GOT THIS!!!! Let me bring you your heart’s desire. Let ME do the work. How about you accept my gifts. How about you let yourself simply BE. Be love. Be soft. Be gentleness. Be woman.”

    And I answer… “Yes, that’s what I want a husband to say to me: I GOT THIS!”

  219.  #219Tee on January 11, 2015 at 7:26 am

    @212 (((((Andrea)))))

    I feel your pain, I also feel your bravery. I want those same things too. Sometimes they feel so impossibly out of reach.

  220.  #220Emerson on January 11, 2015 at 8:19 am


  221.  #221Indigo on January 11, 2015 at 8:24 am


    Yes. I want to be gentleness. Be soft. Be love. Be woman.

    I intend to be.

  222.  #222Emerson on January 11, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Thanks Gear, Azure Blue and Indigo for your replies!

    Indigo, thanks, yes I do feel also that one hour is enough. I need to watch the time better. I let these coffee dates drag on for 2 hours and then I feel hungry and annoyed that they didn’t offer me food! LOL funny but true.
    I feel that if the date lasts more than an hour it would be polite to say oh do you want to have something to eat or shall we move to a place for apps and drinks? I dunno…everyone has their own ideas of what the “rules” are…
    I’m just going to keep my boundaries around one hour coffee dates.
    I have an evening date for drinks this week and I may employ the same rule if he does not offer to get something to eat after an hour, I will cut the date short. I don’t know why I feel that way, but I do.

  223.  #223Lovergirl on January 11, 2015 at 8:55 am

    @212 (((Andrea))) I so feel your pain. I have 5 children, whose father has emotionally abandoned them. They so desire a father figure and I feel terribly guilty that I haven’t been able to provide that to them, especially my teenage son that has become very difficult and is full of anger. I’m terrified of my inability to meet all their needs by myself and also afraid that there are no men who would really desire to take on that role with someone elses 5 kids. I know I just have to let go and let life unfold the way it will, but sometimes it is a very difficult thing to do.

  224.  #224Beloved on January 11, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Emerson – for a coffee date, I eat a light protein snack before, which leaves me to feel free to really enjoy my coffee or tea and my date.

    I can remember times when I’ve said, “I’m really enjoying being here and talking with you, and, I’m feeling like I need to eat something pretty soon,” and my date asked me what he could get me. I wasn’t ‘trying’ to get him to buy me anything or ‘hinting’ that he should by me something, it was just information, so I’m not suggesting it as a ‘tactic’, I had no agenda. Because they could have said, “well, sounds like it’s time to go then, I won’t keep you!” and that would have been okay for me, too…and then I could have gotten on with my night and gotten some food and taken care of myself.

  225.  #225Lovergirl on January 11, 2015 at 9:24 am

    So last night I went over to this guy’s house to do work (quick backstory- we have had what was supposed to be an open, casual relationship for several months, but it has become more. For a bit he was freaking out and saying because of his feelings he wanted to stop having sex- we are sleeping together again now. I also help him with his side business, and he pays me).

    He made a comment over the phone that it would be “just” work (meaning no sex) and I got kind of upset. I told him that felt like a rejection and he said it wasn’t meant to be, that he was trying to prevent that. I couldn’t help myself and asked why?? Is it because you are planning on seeing someone else later? I admitted I was on my period and probably not in the mood for sex anyway but that it made me feel hurt.

    He said no, he didn’t have any plans yet, but he wanted to set a precedent where I would accept it if he DID. He said “I don’t want to be in a position where I have to explain myself to you”. Ugh. I expressed that I didn’t like being invited over when he was making plans with someone else later, that it made me feel bad.

    So what ended up happening, was I came over and did work. He was very playful with me. Afterwards he asked if I would like to go out for Sushi. He got a text from his ex girlfriend asking him to go to a movie and he told her he was busy tonight, which he told me about. That felt like a bit of a victory (they go out to movies quite a bit, its platonic but still feels a bit threatening sometimes).

    He took me out and paid, as he always does. He made a comment though, asking me if I had ever paid for a man on a date. I told him honestly, no. He seemed to be hinting that I feel entitled because I am an attractive woman. It made me feel like he thought I was being selfish.

    I know that some of the other women he goes out with have planted this idea in his head about me. One called me a “gold digger” because she will pay sometimes taking him out, but I do not. He also made a comment about how I need to just “make a decision for once in your life” because I always let him make the plans about where to eat. Also, during the meal, he mentioned that his ex girlfriend (the one who asked him to a movie) had once had some connection that got them into the sushi bar for a free all you can eat New Years party. It made me feel like I was coming up short by not being like these other women (I guess that’s my “nasty voice” talking).

    All that made me question whether or not I am making a mistake in not being more decisive or offering to pay. After I went home and had thanked him (again) via text, I told him I was embarrassed and worried he might feel taken advantage of, and that I assumed when he takes me out its because its something he wanted to do. He said he wasn’t trying to make me feel bad.

    I expressed a lot of appreciation, then told him that sometimes I feel like I am being compared to other women and that I don’t want to compete with anyone. I said I just want to be appreciated for being me and for what I bring to the table.

    His response was “you’re not competing with anything or anyone- you have your positive traits which are unique to you”. Nice, but vague, lol. I didn’t respond but I do wonder what those are. I didn’t want to be all needy seeming and ask about it.

    Also, he asks a lot about when I am going out with another man. He seems upset by it but then he will say he is “just kidding”. I’ve noticed that since I started seeing other men he also seems to be ramping up his attempts to make me jealous. When we are out in public he will make a comment on a woman or he will talk about this or that thing that an ex did. So I am not sure what that is all about. It does make me feel somewhat jealous but its also like hmmm… he’s doing this on purpose.

  226.  #226Beloved on January 11, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Tereana – I meant to say to you the other night, it felt so good and soft to read your posts. It felt peaceful and accepting. It feels so different to shift from a punitive mindset to realizing there just is no point in beating ourselves up for anything. If that worked, we’d all be our fantasy ideals, wouldn’t we? 😀
    Much love and big hugs to you!

  227.  #227Gear on January 11, 2015 at 9:58 am

    Andrea 212, lovely. Especially the end. I feel for you, and feel happy for you that you can feel your needs now. If we kno what we look for, that’s probably a lot easier to find it isn’t it?

    I also have something to share. Last night when I got back home from church, got a text from my last bf(we borked up in Oct, just less than 3 months ago.) asked me if I would like to go to church with him today. (When we were bf/gf- only a short month or so, he asked to and go to my church with me on Sunday mornings) I text him back that I just went church, but I would like to return him his camcorder. He said he could stop by to pick up.

    This morning we exchanged text, he called, and stopped by. I didn’t know what to do, almost didn’t want him to come in, b/c I didn’t want to go back to him, or stir up something, I felt I still liked him. But then, I figured, I needed to unzip my heart. So when he arrived, I let him in. We hugged, he sat on the couch. We had brief catch up. He asked me if I would like to go for lunch after his church. I said, “No, I am on Daniel’s fast.” Actually I could eat vegetables, I don’t know why I turned it down. Maybe I wanted to protect myself. He didn’t insist. We had a nice talk, before he left, he told me, he always enjoyed spending time with me, he liked me a lot. (I liked him too, but I didn’t say it.)
    He said, when my fast finished, call him to meet for lunch.

    What do I feel? I feel good that he still wants to take me out, he still wanted to help me with house stuff- he was the most competent helper in all the men I have dated- and I have to admit that I am very pick about the quality of work.

    I feel good about myself – my judgment of him was correct. He was a nice man, giving and generous,

    Well before he left I also said, “you are a good man, I enjoyed the time spent with you as well but sometimes when I was with you, I felt I couldn’t be myself. Part of that I felt was my boundaryw as weak. But I have worked on it in last few months, and it feel very good about myself now.” He said, “you always feel good about yourself,”

    Well, I feel I am still attracted to him-his giving generous nature always melt me.

  228.  #228Gear on January 11, 2015 at 10:11 am

    I don’t know what to do now. Feeling perplexed. There were some negative feelings too when I was with him. Will those go away? Probably won’t without some serious battle. Trying to change me by giving me suggestions almost every time…

    Does it worthy it?

  229.  #229Tereana on January 11, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Beloved 220 – Aw, thank you, honey! That felt so sweet and good to read : )

    And today, I feel happy, because I am getting ready to go out and get myself a MASSAGE. YES. I need one so much. And I’ve been telling myself for so long that I’m going to do it, and yesterday I finally called and made an appointment. I know that, for me, it is the absolute most effective at mood-boosting, relaxing, creating space, allowing creativity – all of it. It’s a really basic need for me, and I make a commitment not to ignore it anymore! It’s just one thing I can do for myself… And It’s a good thing : )

    It’s also good, when we are “waiting” for guys to respond, etc., to focus on ourselves and our needs. That way, takes the pressure off him, right? Let’s us expand and be more receptive. But really, this is not about any of the “hims.” It’s about taking care of me and my needs. And therefore allowing him to come closer, based on the fact that I won’t be as stressed out, tense, and “needy.” Lol.

  230.  #230Tereana on January 11, 2015 at 10:41 am

    And I just noticed something super strange. It’s a kind of pattern in my dating life recently. The men who are most on the “forefront” for me are guys who travel a lot for work. They are in town for a few days at a time, and then fly out again. So there is not much opportunity to see them, and they are not good candidates for long-term partners. Yet they pursue me, and I feel special about it.

    What’s interesting about that, is that within the last few months, I had a pretty strong realization that the times my dad traveled for work as a kid had affected me strongly. I may have even written about it here. And I even spoke to him about it, after I’d noticed this. He said he he barely traveled at all. But I can tell you that, in my memory, it felt like it was a lot. And even if it wasn’t, in sheer numbers, a large amount of travel, compared to some, those times were very significant. Where was my father going? Why? Why did he have to go there? When is he coming back? What is “business” and why does it require him to go away?

    These were all the childish questions that didn’t really get answered. He had to go away “for business” and that was the explanation. He was coming back “soon.” And he always did come back. And it seemed that he had gone to some magical foreign land. He had had wonderful experiences, and it seemed to me that he was having much more fun without us, his kids, his family, than he ever had at home. That was probably true. Because my mom was of course harping on him all the time about this and that. She was strident, critical, manipulative, controlling. She made our home a very toxic, unpleasant environment to be in. I suppose that, as a 6-year-old child, I would have wanted most in the world to have gone with him on his “business trips” rather than stay home with my mom. But that’s not what we got to do. I had to wait patiently at home, for what seemed like eternity, until he walked through the door again, probably with some nice gift from the foreign city he had just been to, and which I knew nothing about.

    Perhaps this was partly where my wanderlust started to take root and grow.

    And also: maybe now it is a turn-on when I meet a man who travels. Like they say, we become attracted to men who resemble our fathers. Although in this case, it’s not something I actually know about at first. I meet a guy, and I assume that they lives here and that’s that. And then at some point in the conversation, he tells me, “So I travel a lot for work.” And I’m like, “Great. Here we go again.” I can only assume that I am “attracting” this, because there is something about this pattern that I need to “work through.”

    I could refuse these guys. I could say, “No, I need a man who is here all the time, who can be with me physically on a consistent basis and love me.”

    But on the other hand, I can do something else as well. I can love them. As in, I can make love to them. I can let them seduce me, if they want to. And I can sleep with them if I want to. Because in a way, it can maybe heal this rift that I feel where I might have felt “abandoned” as a child. But I am no longer a child. And now maybe I can love these men for who they are, traveling for their work. And I do not need to understand why they go and why they travel and what they are doing. The point is that, by allowing them to pursue me, I am loving me, and I am saying to myself: “I am OK. Even when they go away, they are not abandoning me. I am loving myself as I stay here, and I can let them come and go, and it does not mean that they don’t love me or like, me, or that I am not lovable or likable.”

    And wow, that feels like a powerful idea to write about at this moment. I have had many issues with sex in my life, but it feels powerful, the idea of using sex to heal something about myself with certain men. And they are helping me do it ; )


    And I just want to give everyone on Siren Island a big hug.


  231.  #231Indigo on January 11, 2015 at 11:01 am


    Your post 219 brought up a lot of feelings for me, because I’ve been there and so I really feel resonant with what you’re experiencing.

    My feeling is that when you’re in a casual relationship, you need to focus extra hard on the other things going on in your life, on loving yourself and filling up your life and your time with good-feeling things… if you focus too much on a man in this kind of situation, it pushes him away. Actually it’s like pushing him out the door and he won’t even know why. Asking the “innocent question” about whether he was seeing someone later, comparing yourself to other women that he sees, worrying about whether you should pay or make plans so that he doesn’t feel “taken advantage of”… these are all things which I have learnt the hard way place too much focus on the man, and his feelings and what’s going on with him, and this will push him away over time and interfere with your vibe. Or that is how it happened for me. I just realized that by far the best thing I could do was lean back and focus on and sink into how I was feeling in the moment, and remind myself that I am the prize.

  232.  #232Liquid Light on January 11, 2015 at 11:24 am

    I’m feeling such anger about one of my cd’s. He just seems so immature and clueless. And he’s 64, lol! I just can’t believe his insensitivity and self absorption. It really is so unbelievable its funny. He remembered nothing about what I had told him on our previous dates even though we spent quite a few hours together. But then seems to think I will be fascinated by every minute detail in his life. It really is quite dumb founding. He just seems like a big kid. Similar to my ex in a lot of ways. Realizing that I have no desire to spend anymore time with him and just need to trust that gut instinct and not try to force it. Anyway, I’ve got plenty of other suitors right now so there’s no big loss. The other thing is that he seems like a chameleon. He seems to morph and say anything to appear in the best light possible in the situation we happen to be in. Even if it completely contradicts something he’s said before. Its bizarre. Has anyone experienced this before? I also wonder if he might be an alcoholic and if this is something that goes with the territory?

  233.  #233Mistea1 on January 11, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    LL 226
    Age has nothing to do with emotional immaturity. If you read any of my posts on MusicTd you can read the immaturity there and he is old. It even infects me.

    He will lie to make himself look good. In the course of the last two of our conversations he ‘spent time with his ex, women were always coming on to him, he’s done with that, women and men come on to him and he likes men’. No wonder he’s so chaotic. I’ve leaned way back since mid October and the only time we talk is if he initiates. It’s now mid January 2015.

  234.  #234Mistea1 on January 11, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    IamHis 211

    Thank you so much for your support of me for 200.

    This is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Tears came to my eyes when I read your reply. I’m grateful for the support.

  235.  #235Andrea on January 11, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    LL wow, your guy is sounding so much like my ex boyfriend from two years ago. He would be 64 now. hahahahah

    He was a therapist and we had such great talks. In the beginning I felt so listened to. He asked about me and looked right at me when I answered. He NEVER smoked, but he had a thing for cigars when certain people visited. He NEVER drank, but when he was in certain company he always drank a “blackie” and was an expert on the drink.

    Other things like that. And then after a while it was all one sided conversations with lots and lots of stories from his past, back in the good ole days.

    So many similarities. And yet, there were some things about him that were so endearing to me that if he were to call me up today and ask me out again, I would consider it. : )

  236.  #236Mistea1 on January 11, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    My dear, I feel deeply for your pain. I feel your strength and never giving up on those children. I feel you never giving up on you. A good cry can clear the psychic air and you can move upward from there.

    I’ve done my share of crying for something that can never be and maybe this is the start of something good for both of us.

  237.  #237Liquid Light on January 11, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Mistea, thanks for your response. It sounds like you can relate. Yeah, every time we talk about a subject that we’ve discussed before, there’s always a new twist and version of the story that is totally different from the prior version. He’s spent most of his adult life single and I think his singleness is just part of his dna now. He just has an element of sleaziness that I can’t put my finger on but that really turns me off. I’m going to trust that feeling and not spend anymore time with him.

  238.  #238Liquid Light on January 11, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Andrea, OMG, exactly! This guy is a therapist too! Wow! And come to think of it, on our first couple of dates, he did seem like he was a really good listener and really wanted me to talk about myself and my life. But then on our last date, I realized that he had forgotten almost everything I said! LOL And the whole date was entirely focused on him and all his stories and details from his life. Ughh. It actually makes my skin crawl to think about seeing him again so I’m hoping he gets the hint when I don’t respond to his texts and just drops it. So funny you said that about him never drinking except when he did! hahaha!!! I had the same experience on our last date. He had been out drinking with his friend the night before and got really drunk. He drunk texted me and I was a bit taken aback. He said he wouldn’t drink on our date but then proceeded to have two large bourbons at dinner and got pretty tipsy. I get the feeling that the truth is a moving target with him.

  239.  #239Mistea1 on January 11, 2015 at 1:38 pm


    Chuckle, an element of sleaziness hey? My guy has a AAA+ rating in our community and only I refer to him as the _______churches dirty little secret. My ability to deep listen serves me well.
    His wife dumped him 14 years ago and I think she deserves sainthood for putting up with him as long as she did.

    Given that, there is such an element of beauty about him when he plays and I can see that this element is in all of us too . Even your guy. It is a privilege to be aware of this in self and others. Course that doesn’t mean we should stick around for any abuse. 🙂

  240.  #240Azure Blu on January 11, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    You Are a beautiful, loving, Siren!!!

    This is just my opinion…
    Please don’t let this guy manipulate you with all his ploys to make you feel jealous or guilty…
    He obviously likes you a lot
    and is sounding fearful of loosing you…
    What a negative, childish way of showing
    his affections for you!!

    Have no fear,
    I had 2 girlfriends,
    each of which had 4 and 5 children.
    Both met such Adorable, loving men and have been married now for many years!!!

    Set YOUR boundaries, I agree with Indigo
    find the feeling
    Love that feeling, love YOU!!

    Maybe having sex with this man
    is making things chaotic…
    I know it’s difficult to step back…
    but I decided to stop having sex with
    my last BF because he began to
    get really off and on about it…
    I just took it off the table (a conversation with feeling messages)…
    Then I was able to focus on
    how i felt about other aspects
    of our relationship
    and came to realize
    He isn’t my Mr. Right

  241.  #241Emerson on January 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    218 Beloved, thank you for the tip and the response…great idea…I’ve done that before before I meet them…although for me as I thought about it some more, I realized I feel it might be coming from a cultural thing….where we eat and socialize…and it’s polite to offer something to eat with coffee or tea…one would never have just coffee alone in my country! haha….well anyways, I guess I have to realize this and not judge them for it, but it still bothers me some…

  242.  #242Emerson on January 11, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    I’m going on a coffee “date” tonight with someone from online dating site…and I feel that I need to start a routine for prior to dates…the last three dates I went on….I arrived feeling unprepared, feeling frazzled, and a little hyperventilation-ish…haha…I need to get grounded before I even leave the house….
    reminders for Emerson:
    Lean back
    Listen at level two
    Eyes are like magnets
    Silence is ok
    Feeling messages
    “I feel…..”
    Open heart, pool of gold
    UNZIP MY HEART….omg I wish I had done this with my date last weekend!!!
    Don’t ask why, it’s a communication barrier (speaking of this, is there a way to ask “why” someone has not been married yet?) please help me with wording….

  243.  #243April Rose on January 11, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    I’m going speed dating tomorrow!

  244.  #244Liquid Light on January 11, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    Gear, both of your dates sound great! I’m so happy for you! It sounds like things are turning around and going your way! Hoorah!

  245.  #245Liquid Light on January 11, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    April Rose, OMG, have fun! I’ve done it a few times and sometimes its been a lot of fun and sometimes it hasn’t but I do know that it all comes down to your attitude about it. Enjoy and report back if you feel like it.

  246.  #246April Rose on January 11, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    Thanks LL!
    I am going with curiosity and a light heart. Can’t wait to smile and feel goddessy in the presence of fifteen men, one after the other…

  247.  #247IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Ohhhhh man.

    I feel like such a blog hog!

    I feel giddy and surprised.

    so, people who have been “reading me” know I have this huge crush on Foreign Guy, who I am not dating, but always end up spending time with.

    It’s complicated?

    I don’t know.

    Anyway, I was getting to that point that I always get to where I feel angry and scared and also…that “crap, I have a crush on him” feeling.

    and then everyone left for Christmas vacation.

    and I didn’t see him for a couple of weeks.

    and the space felt really good.

    and I leaned back in that I didn’t even so much as think about him.

    I felt almost apathy about the whole situation.

    because he’s a young, “dumb” guy.

    but he was expecting to see me in a group situation most of the day yesterday and a good part of today, and I had made other plans for most of the weekend.

    So I guess he was expecting to see me, and then he didn’t.

    I ran into him much later today, and i just felt really happy to see him and without thinking i just threw my arms around his neck for a hug and he was so cute!

    He just like pulled me really close and swayed back and forth playfully.

    his playfulness feels so good.

    then, we left to go somewhere together and he kept touching my sides, and poking me, and making me giggle. He seriously had me feeling like a teenager.

    He teases the crap out of me and I absolutely love it. It just feels so light-hearted and no pressure and easy.

    but with him…it feels like there’s always some switch that happens where we’re all moving throughout the day, walking around, doing active busy things.

    and then we’ll end up riding in the back of a car together.

    and I find myself wanting him sooooooo bad.

    and I feel embarrassed because I totally freak out because it’s like every cell in my body is keenly aware of him and every cell of his that’s touching mine.

    and he continues to tease and touch me and I can hardly stand it!

    I was exhausted by the time we were in the backseat together, so I tried leaning over on my coat on the window to close my eyes.

    I wanted to lay on top of him, but I don’t know. Is that leaning back? I didn’t feel like it was.

    It feels so difficult to sink into my body and figure out my emotions. I just. want. him.

    I don’t even know how I feel when I’m with him. Stupid happy. 16 years old. Giddy. and a little scared too.

    I dozed a little bit, but when I woke up our legs were all cozied up. It was like my leg had a mind of its own and some part of my body just had to touch him.

    and then he had to leave, so he leaned over and kissed me.

    and I just feel amazing. but also annoyed because i feel piney. and feeling piney feels so annoying!


    I feel frustrated because I want to be alone with him and actually date him. We have all these mutual friends and always seem to end up together, but I want to be dating.

    I don’t know if I want to tell him this or not. Part of me loves this, playful, young-feeling, friendly/flirty thing we’ve got going on.

    I’d hate to ruin it with expectations.


  248.  #248IamHis on January 11, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    I feel so curious as to what his message is for me.

    I think it’s just that…there’s a huge part of me that’s not ready to settle down.

    I feel like I didn’t date enough when i was younger. Everything always felt so stiff and heavy and scary.

    and now that I know a leeetle bit more, I think this young, sexy, punk foreign guy just shows up and let’s me experience what i should have many years ago.

    I kinda just feel thankful.

  249.  #249Gear on January 11, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    LL 238. OMG, I still feel so depressed, when I saw your message, I felt lit up right away, even though I didn’t know how things are going my way? 🙂

    Neither of these two dates are ideal for me. The one yesterday (let’s name it D) has not followed up. He has three girls, that he is in close contacts with, and he is an executive, see the responsibilities he has. I probably won’t be able to see him until next months. Definitely not a serious potential, good for practice.

    The one today (F) has two girls, live in two different cities, not in our town. Think about his responsibilities.

    After he left, I recalled that tomorrow is his birthday, no wonder he asked to have lunch with me.

    I also got mad at myself this afternoon that when he I was here, he reminded me again, “you need to slow down.” I said, “yes, I want to slow down.” I also mentioned that my boundary issue, I have learned to have a firm boundary…

    After he left, I felt, what? I bit his criticism again!!! How come, dear Gear!!! You see my point, LL? When I was with him, he was making suggestion to me on every date, not in the first three months, but after we became bf/gf. Now I did not push back, still.

    I am in my period today, feeling so low, so lonely. Feel like the dating thing never go anywhere after single all my life…

  250.  #250Gear on January 11, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    I text him “happy Birthday” in the pm. He never replied to me. I probably left him the impression that no turning back. Well, that was probably what I really meant at the time.

    I did express what I really feel-that I liked him, that I felt attracted him, – b/c I was ready to take him back, while I had not meant to push him away either. I basically froze, didn’t know what to do, or what I wanted.

  251.  #251Gear on January 11, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    Correction, I DID NOT express what I really felt.

  252.  #252Gear on January 11, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    What happened?
    Correction, b/c I was NOT ready to take him back.

  253.  #253Lovergirl on January 11, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    @ Indigo (225) Thank you so, so much for your words of wisdom! I didn’t even realize until I read them just how much I really was worrying about HIS stuff and not my own. Here I was thinking I was doing a good job expressing my feelings, but they were really insecurities and that’s not so great. I knew I shouldn’t ask him a question like that but I was upset and couldn’t stop myself. Sometimes I get in my feelings and have a really hard time keeping it under control.

    I haven’t heard from him at all today. I’m trying to avoid the thoughts in my head about how it must be because I “messed up”. He normally calls or texts pretty much every day but I’ve noticed lately he’s been going an entire day without doing so. When he does it, its almost like its PLANNED because he will call or text first thing in the morning. Anyway, I know I need to stop trying to “row the boat” here and learn to relax.

  254.  #254Lovergirl on January 11, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    #234 Azure Blue-

    Thank you so much for your kind words! Yes, I think you are right that he is afraid of losing me. He’s said as much. Sometimes, I feel like we BOTH get a little childish about things. I am trying to stop and be more real and vulnerable, because I don’t want to push him away. I’ve made quite a few mistakes so far, but nothing that has chased him away yet. I feel in my heart that he really does care about me.

    I’m still learning about using these “feeling messages” and sometimes I feel like I’m screwing them up in the moment, haha. Like last night when he made those comments about have I ever paid for a man and that I should be more decisive, I said “I feel like I’m being criticized”. Since I didn’t use the word “you” or specifically accuse HIM of that, he made a joke out of it and acted like I was talking about someone else. He said “if ANYONE ever criticizes you, I want you to grab them by the scruff of the neck and say ‘who do you think you are, criticizing me? You punk!’. Then, he was trying to make me repeat that after him and acting like he was preparing me to talk back to the big bully who criticizes me. :p

    The sex part, I fought to keep it because I didn’t want to be in the “friend zone” with him. It made me feel rejected, even though we still were spending a lot of time together and he would take me out. I guess because I spent 13 years married to someone who didn’t want sex, I am super sensitive about that.

    Sometimes I worry that in my relationships I’m the one putting more emphasis on sex than the guys. Anyway, that is encouraging to hear that you have friends with several children who found guys that were willing to step up to the plate. It just seems like so many men are intimidated by that. I get to feeling hopeless that anyone will want anything “real” with me because of that.

  255.  #255Indigo on January 11, 2015 at 9:06 pm


    The one thing you must please, please not do is beat yourself up, or think that you “messed things up”. I speak from experience here too, because for a long time I would fill my head with thoughts that I somehow caused us to get off track or that I had “messed things up” and how if I had done things differently things wouldn’t have turned out the way they did. No. Yes, of course there is always something to learn, and we can always do things a little better next time, but no beating yourself up, no berating yourself. I’ve learned that the best thing I can do is be OVERLY kind and loving and merciful to myself and let things go.

    If he is contacting you (my man does too, in much the same way as you describe how yours does), just try to enjoy it, and let HIM do the leaning forward. Try not to think about what it means.

    I agree with Azure Blu too… boundaries in these situations are essential. I am working on having my own in place.

    Lots of luck 🙂

  256.  #256RileyTheOwl on January 11, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    I’m trying to understand myself…. Sighh

  257.  #257RileyTheOwl on January 11, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    I also just want to say thank you sirens ((((((((((sirens)))))))))) for all the advice and support you have given me, and just for this wonderful island I can come to.

    I’ve had a LOT going on the last week or so. It all feels like the drama and roughness is coming to a close, and I feel still shaky and a bit unbalanced

    New layers that I didn’t even know existed were peeled away between C and I today, we BOTH were shaky and in need of each others love and comfort…
    It was scary
    And I feel Woah
    There were layers here? And now their gone…
    I sat on my bed for almost a full hour just wrapped in a blanket talking to myself, trying to sink into every feeling and understand myself
    It felt really really good and I feel glad I sat there for so long trying to get myself and what is going on inside of me

    I need to go to bed, but I want to write more about this at some point

    Feeling kind of dazed with everything,

    I also want to say that I’m not consistent answering here, I know, and I want to let everyone know that I really really appreciate each and every one of you 🙂 I want to work up to being more consistent here.

    Goodnight sirens

  258.  #258Indigo on January 12, 2015 at 1:49 am

    Hi RileytheOwl 🙂

    Yours is such a lovely, gentle voice here, and so wise for someone your age. I feel thankful for your presence here.

    I too just want to extend my gratitude to the sirens, how thankful I am for this place and the wonderful women here. There is so much going on in my life at the moment and this place is like an anchor, a rock that I can come back to.

  259.  #259Andrea on January 12, 2015 at 7:08 am

    Tereana, where’s your post about healing through sexuality? I went back over the thread but couldn’t find it. I wanted to say how completely resonating that felt for me.
    I believe I went through that over the past three years. I allowed my erotic, heady, slutty self to just finally live and I learned to stop judging myself and to stop berating myself.
    And unbelievably, by and by, I stopped attracting those types of men who “beat me up”. I had a lifetime of men who (I believed) were displeased with me physically. (My insecurities fed into what I percieved as their lack of physical interest in me.)
    I used to attract cheater, flirters, the wandering eye guys, the men who hooted and cat called at victoria secret commercials.
    After I stopped hating myself for being a slut and for wanting men to be sexually attracted to me, I stopped attracting the kind of men who wanted me ONLY for sex. Strange huh?
    But I totally get what you’re saying.

    At some point at the end of last year, after my last purely physical connection, I simply…. didn’t need that anymore. I realized… “Huh, this lesson is learned.”
    And then, after that, I felt like I was really ready to allow one true man to really get to know all of me, body and soul and emotions and mind and flaws and fears and everything.
    And I realized that the one night stand guys, though they were so instrumental in getting me to this place of wholeness, were no longer useful to me.
    And now, for the past couple of months I have felt very resolute and very solid in my desire for one man whom I can share love and sex and commitment with.

    But I truly believe I needed those years of sexual freedom to heal ALL of me. I’m actually very grateful for those men who were willing to simply be my sex partners.

  260.  #260Violette on January 12, 2015 at 7:14 am

    LL 226 My boyfriend does that too. I love him and…I don’t know, there is a lot of love there. He is just very loving. Very emotionally generous. And at the same time this quality makes it feel so hard to connect. I am happiest when we are not talking…sadly. I don’t know what to make of it. Except that for today it isn’t a deal breaker. Anyway, it feels good to relate to you. It is a weirdo feeling for me too.

  261.  #261Violette on January 12, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Thanks for your earlier comment to me Azure Blue. That made me feel really good 🙂

  262.  #262Andrea on January 12, 2015 at 7:39 am

    Here’s my slowly falling in love with myself story unfolding.
    Through out the holidays RRguy had been texting me. But with baby daddy taking up space on my couch and in my energy, I just had low tolerance for ALL men. So I did not feel like answering any of his texts.

    Strangely, on the very morning that I dropped Baby Daddy off at the Train Depot, I got a phone call from RRguy. I let it go to voice mail and did not bother with it until after Baby Daddy was gone.

    RRguy had called to tell me he was in my town and did I have time to meet up. I did. I wanted to see him. It had been almost six weeks since we saw eachother. I was curious if I still would feel anything for him. I was curious if he still felt anything for me.

    I had to go pick him up as, when he’s in my town he doesn’t have his vehicle with him. It was noon hour. He got in my truck. I leaned back. I only smiled.
    He gushed. He gushed. He spat out so many words about how he missed me, how great it is to see me, how he can’t stop smiling.

    He said he’d been thinking about my truck all holiday and he just wanted to take me to an auto place and get this one part fixed. He said it had bugged him since he noticed it so many weeks ago. And would I let him fix my truck.

    I was so so shocked! He’d been thinking about me? He’d been thinking about fixing my truck? He’d been thinking about how to take care of me????

    I just said, “REally?? Really? You would do that for me?”

    He said, “Of course! You’re my girl!”

    Then I was really shocked. I didn’t know I was “His Girl.” What??

    But I left that alone. I just relished the idea that he was thinking about me all this time.
    In the auto parts store, we were waiting for the clerk to bring us the part we needed and RRguy whispered to me.
    “Can I please at least get a hug?”
    I was just stunned. I realized I had been in kind of a numb haze of surprise that I hadn’t even touched him or anything.
    I threw myself into his open arms and he picked me up. Literally picked me up and twirled me around right there in the auto parts store. And we were kissing and holding eachother and he was whispering he missed me and how good it felt to just have me in his arms.

    It was amazing.

    Then he fixed my truck.

    And we talked about so much, about how he wants to bring his boys to my town and take all of us; me, my girls, his boys, himself skiiing. Just so much. He talked about the future. About different thoughts he was having about how the two of us can get closer. About so much more.

    The whole afternoon I was just in complete shock.
    So much in shock that I didn’t have time to process everything. I didn’t have any response except… jeesh.

    And honestly inside myself I was shouting.. “I love you. I’m in love with you. I want to make love to you. I want to marry you and I want to be with you forever.”

    Jeesh!!!! Thank God I didn’t say any of that.

    Then he had to go. Back to work. Back to his town. And I told him I feel like a whirlwind went through me. He said he would really like to call me.
    I told him if I had my wish he would call me everyday.

    Then he looked at me really shocked. He said, “You would??? REally??”
    I said, “Of course.”
    He said, “Oh my gosh,” he stepped back and looked at me and shook his head. “You just blew my mind right there! Wait a second. I need to process this.”
    I was saying, “What? what?”

    Then he reminded me that when we first met, our first date, I was telling him that I date other men. I was telling him that it annoys me when men get too possessive. I told him that I hate it when men call me too much.

    He said, “Oh My God Baby!! You know what? I’m trying my hardest to make you happy. I’m out here trying my damndest NOT to call you because you had said that you didn’t like that. Oh my god!! Don’t you realize that I just want to do everything right? I just want to make you happy?”

    And then I was back to being shocked.

    So when he went home he called me from his home. He texted me when he was coming back to my town. And now, early this morning, he’s texted me that he is here and needs to get some sleep but if I would agree to have lunch with him today it would make him a very happy man.

    Can you believe this? And I didn’t chase him, or text him, or call him, or have sex with him, or… try to please him.

    I seriously like this man. Alot!! And it is hard to maintain my “cool”. I’m trying my hardest to remember that I have a whole other life that I’m pretty happy with (except the being alone part.) And I’m trying my hardest to convince myself that I’m the prize here. And I’m trying my hardest not to work this out, not to plan this out, not to make things happen. I’m trying really hard to just relax and let myself BE.

    Do I deserve this? To be chased? To be wooed by a really decent, sexy, professional, affectionate, responsible man? I’m trying really hard to convince myself that maybe, someway, somehow, I do. Maybe I can let myself be liked. How about that? Let’s start with that. Someone likes me. And that feels so freaking good!!!

  263.  #263RileyTheOwl on January 12, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Andrea, all I can say is that this is FANTASTIC <3

  264.  #264Emerson on January 12, 2015 at 8:04 am

    253 Andrea this is very interesting!
    I appreciate you sharing this…

    I want to attract men who want all of Emerson…I have had it before in relationships…I know I can have it again.

    Last night my date was pretty bad. The guy was late, and to top it off, he was boring. Sorry to say, but it’s true. I tried to give him a chance and listen at level 2 and remain open, but he didn’t have much to say and the whole thing felt awkward.

    He asked to meet me at a dive bar (I don’t really go to dive bars, ever…) So I just went with the flow and the place was really weird and dirty. Ugh.

    He’s much younger than me so I didn’t expect much anyway…I agreed to meet him because he has been messaging me and asking over and over…..very persistent…

    but as I met him I realized the age difference is really obvious…and he seems to be looking for a fling….
    Um no thanks…I’m not into it at all…and he needed a breath mint.


    Meanwhile, I experimented with leaning forward (doh Emerson!!!) But it’s ok….I have to not care about the outcome….and it’s good to practice it with men who are just coming and going anyway…to remind myself how icky it feels to lean forward and not get a reply…

    I leaned forward with two men from online that I met but haven’t heard from….and neither of them replied.

    Oh well it’s ok. On to the next!!!

  265.  #265Lovergirl on January 12, 2015 at 8:20 am

    Andrea, thank you so much for sharing that!! How beautiful!! 😀 Its got me feeling hopeful.

  266.  #266Mistea1 on January 12, 2015 at 8:27 am

    Andrea, 256,
    I feel so happy for you. “and then he fixed my truck.” Great!!!

  267.  #267waterfall on January 12, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Andrea 256

    Yay!! What an amazing turnaround for you. It’s like he appeared as you needed him.

  268.  #268Lovergirl on January 12, 2015 at 8:33 am

    So there is this other guy that I haven’t written about on here yet. He does everything “right” in the sense that he always asks for dates ahead of time, he’s respectful, he doesn’t push for sex (we’ve had it a couple of times now), he makes me dinner and takes me out, he will give me gas money for driving to his place (I don’t bring men to my place because of my children). He bought me $200 boots and some nice perfume for Christmas and was insistent that I don’t buy him anything.

    I feel kind of guilty because I just find him…soo…boring! He always takes me to the exact same restaurant. He says things like “I am a creature of habit” and every Friday night he eats wings with lots of hot sauce on them. He’s very, very predictable. He is very health conscious and cares a lot about working out and taking care of his body. Not a bad thing at all, its just that he talks about it all the time and it also reminds me that I should probably get back in gear working out! I’m not overweight so I don’t have a lot of motivation, but I could be more toned.

    The other thing that bothers me is that he seems so self absorbed. He talks a lot about how great he is and how the men he works with (he’s the boss, he makes good money) are all “haters” because they want to be like him. When I talk about myself he doesn’t seem that interested, but he will ask me pointed questions that make me feel “on the spot”. Sort of like a job interview.

    He seems to have this image of me made up in his head that kind of makes me laugh. He says I’m “innocent” and that sex with me is “almost like being with a virgin” (uh, not even close, but if you want to believe that, okay…). It kind of gets on my nerves though because I feel like I need to put up a facade.

    He also has been rather pushy about not wanting me to see other men. I have told him I’m not ready for a commitment right now. However he doesn’t seem to believe me and makes this assumption that I am going to stop talking to anyone else. He said he took his dating profile down off Plenty of Fish and seemed to be strongly hinting that I do the same. He says men don’t like to “share”. I don’t want to commit to him. It feels claustrophobic.

  269.  #269Beloved on January 12, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Andrea – hooray! I’m doing the happy puppy dance for you! That sounds like such a wonderful, magical experience!

  270.  #270Femininewoman on January 12, 2015 at 10:02 am

    Andrea I am joining Beloved on the dance floor.

    Yayy you!!

  271.  #271Labbit on January 12, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    258 Emerson — Boring is awesome progress! 🙂 In the moment I realize it may feel bad or disappointing but really this is fantastic news…I feel like boring are the last group of guys to show up before the really great ones do! So major kudos to you for going out and staying out even though you were hesitant about the age difference.

    If nothing else, it’s great feeling messages practice. Just keep moving forward…you are expanding your Universe each time and it only gets better!

  272.  #272Labbit on January 12, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    256 Andrea — Hooray! This sounds so amazing, I kinda like RRGuy (admittedly probably because I love male Sags, I just do) and it’s very cool the way he goes out of HIS WAY to treat you right. I love hearing about the way he makes you feel and how easy it is for you to be open and vulnerable around him. That is awesome and not to be taken lightly! Isn’t it great to see what happens when we lean back and let men pursue us?

    I want to encourage you to keep hanging back with him. He sounds fully engaged in the chase now with you as his target — yummy! I know he said a lot of wonderful future things on your date and I also know how easy it was for me to get swept up in that type of talk, which I used to think of as promises and now understand as potentials, often not be followed through on. Though other wonderful surprises will be followed through on!

    Just keep leaning back and stay focused on Andrea and let him chase you. Not that you have to wait 6 weeks in between dates by any means, I would just stay not fully available to him and give him space and time to keep building the attraction. It sounds like it’s smoldering something hot, gooey and fun right now!! I feel all fiery inside just thinking about it, whoo it’s good.

  273.  #273Violette on January 12, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    262 Lovergirl, oh my gosh I can’t believe how much I’m relating to the posts these last few days. My boyfriend makes me feel claustrophobic too. He insisted we be exclusive at about the 3 month mark, and that is why he is now my boyfriend…I decided to give it a shot. But yeah…it was a few fights first, this thing of him taking down his profile and getting jealous. Ugh, it’s hard. I don’ t have answers. Again, all I know is that I really like his good stuff and for today the pushiness stuff is not a dealbreaker. But I get it, I do.

    On a brighter note he insisted on running me a bath last night because he knows I love them. And all I had to do was obey him, and he was so happy. He really does want so much to make me happy, sometimes I can’t believe it how important it seems to be to him.

  274.  #274Azure Blu on January 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    !!! I;m joining Beloved & FemWomn on the dance floor
    at Siren Island!!!

    I love what Labbit said…

    Andrea… he said… “I just want to Make YOU happy!!”
    Ohhh… so lovely!!

    You, darlin’ Siren, have been raising the bar for YOUR Mr. Right… and it looks like HE has shown up on YOUR doorstep!!! Whhhheeeewwww

    I love this:
    ” Maybe I can let myself be liked. (by a”really decent, sexy, professional, affectionate, responsible man”)
    How about that?
    Let’s start with that.
    Someone likes me.
    And that feels so freaking good!!!”
    Andrea… thank you for sharing YOUR journey
    with us
    on Siren Island… you are awesome!!

  275.  #275Azure Blu on January 12, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    Lovegirl #262…
    Ahhh… I was wondering if you were CDing others…

    This guy sounds like a perfect candidate for practicing your Feeling Messages BIG time…
    You don’t have that much feelings for him…

    Maybe you could try using all the tools…
    Drop down into your feelings when your right
    in front of him… and sharing every single one of them… such GREAT practice…
    Have you tried seeing what is the mirror image he is reflecting back to you… what are the triggers and why?

    You are doing so great!!! AND raising 5 children
    You are a Super Siren!!!
    As Indigo said… there are NO Mistakes.
    only lessons for us to learn…
    in past week the Siren song here on Siren Island is reminding all of us…
    every moment
    is OUR moment!!!
    Enjoy our moments
    minute by minute

  276.  #276Azure Blu on January 12, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    Violette #267
    Ahhhh… a man who wants to Make YOU

  277.  #277Dixie on January 12, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Andrea!! I am JUMPING with joy for your incredible experience with RRGuy! I am just beaming for the way things lined up there – serendipity doesn’t even begin to describe it! YAY for you! I’m hoping that you’re feeling all slathered with this love, not just from him, but all the warm feelings from us here, supporting you at every step!

  278.  #278RileyTheOwl on January 12, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    252 Indigo
    Awww thank you:) these compliments mean a lot, it feels very good to read them. I so appreciate your precense and your voice here too. Even from the very beginning I have looked up to you and your wisdom. Thank you. (I also feel like we have much in common, as you say you see yourself in me… Which is really interesting and makes me feel curious, and also happy)

  279.  #279Dixie on January 12, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Quick(ish) update!

    I’ve missed these boards! My email was hacked last week -SO scary- and I missed the updates! I’ve been catching up on everyone and I have so many happy feelings for all of you. If the following comments are no longer timely, well, the sentiments ring true!:

    Indigo, I was so happy for how at peace you sounded after the incident with D (after wanting to almost throw something at him, lol) and the selling of your horse. I’m so excited for your new apartment!
    Thank you so much for directing me to Leigha’s website last week.

    RileytheOwl – How amazing is it that you are in high school and learning how to create healthy relationships already! Your sincerity and openness are so fresh and so inspired that I love reading your comments and the insight you offer!

    Dominique – thank you, thank you, for directing me to the articles about ultra-sensitives. This resonated with me so much because although I enjoy such an affectionate relationship with my dad now, he was pretty mercurial when we were growing up, so I really learned how attune my behaviour to his moods. It’s a hard habit to outgrow and every once in a while, I catch myself. Your articles really helped.

    As for things here, I don’t know why, but it has honestly felt like the most amazing week. Not because anything big happened but that’s the best part! D texted every single day last week to see how my day was going, and even when I did lean forward (yes, I read the comments here 3 minutes too late) he was loving and sweet and affectionate.

    Here’s the funny part. I’ve decided to feel like I’m in love anyhow, I mean regardless of what happens. And it feels so easy, so good and so inspired. And then, he called yesterday and asked for advice on an article. My email was down so he came by with the laptop, etc, and we worked late into the night, on the sofa, just cuddling and working on this piece. It just felt so warm and wonderful to sink back into him, and right there between us was that creative energy again. So much fun! I don’t know what happens next, but all I know, and all that matters, is that things feel good, with D., and with everything else – relaxed, in anticipation of more good things coming.

    I’m sending all these happy feelings to you Sirens. This board is such a rich and rewarding place!

    (Sorry – so many exclamation points today!)

  280.  #280Andrea on January 12, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    Ahhh thanks so much every one. I feel solid. Just solid. About myself.
    I feel happy that it seems like that old cliche’ really is true, “When one door closes… another opens up.”

    But, I also feel… really good lessons for myself about insecurities, trust, patience, and yes, like Labbit said… enjoy the moments but no need to latch onto the words and fantasies about tomorrow and turn them into expectations.

    Today he called me and cancelled our lunch because he was so tired. I felt really okay with that because I always have pretty full days. And so amazingly, I got busy doing MY life and took a package down to our post office.

    And just the perfect timing… I was standing in line and a male voice says to me.. “Andrea?”
    It was my boss. (very handsome boss)
    And he and I stood in line talking and then kept talking afterward for about an hour or so. We were so relaxed and just had a neat time.
    I’ve never had long conversation with him before.

    Later when he came by my desk at work he said, “You know, that really made my day running into you like that.”

    Heeheehee… Huh??

    I must be really throwing out an awesome vibe lately. I think that cleansing cry was really something I needed a few days back.

  281.  #281Tatia Dee on January 12, 2015 at 4:05 pm


    These are both very provocative, realistic and moving articles. Quite on point. Thank you for finding them and sharing them!

  282.  #282Lotus on January 12, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    Wow – another great post and quite painful to read the first article, about the complexities of men’s insecurities and how their beloved partners can shrink in their feminine energy. Thinking about my marriage breakdown, perhaps when I felt even more disconnected from my ex, I dressed in less feminine ways and wore lots of black. I also felt a little repelled by his sexual energy and craved for affection. it’s as if I was dumbing down my sexuality and I got more into my work, feeding my intellect as it felt safer. Funny thing looking back at how I was and how I am now, relaxing into a more realised feminine energy. It feels so good to practice being open, as I feel so many new sensations that don’t just come from the head anymore. Amen!

  283.  #283lovetodance on January 12, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    I feel so happy to read your posts, your journey…
    I feel inspired by your honesty and vunerability…and your persistance in loving yourself…

    thank you for all you share here….i am excited for you!

  284.  #284Lotus on January 12, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Liquid Light 139 – I share your feeling of exhaustion! I was glad to go away at the weekend and chill out on the train and have a break from CDing. And then I find the CD’s collect in energy and text me within a day of each other trying to set up the next dates for the week. It’s difficult not to line them up according to favourites as well wanting to have more free time!

    Last week on a date, my separated-h bumped into us and it was so awkward, seeing this moment of realisation on his face as he looked at me and my date. I felt my face burn. It had to happen at some point especially as I’ve been more comfortable being in bars we used to go together, and my date surprised me, I will call him J – who said he wouldn’t want to be in the way of us getting back together as he sees marriage as sacred. A while back, he asked if we would be like a secret affair.

    I am wanting to drop a CD off as his energy just feels too clompy, he texts like he’s writing a letter, with a paragraph of text, yet he’s actually quite interesting in person. I’m going to give him one more date – a walk as he suggested. He tried to book me in for his birthday at the end of the month and I don’t want to go, as it just feels like a bit of pressure meeting his friends, I really don’t want that.

  285.  #285Gemini Goddess on January 12, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    Lots of post reading to catch up on. I had to look away for awhile because reading the blog was making me focus overly much on “The Relationship”. Had to go read some fiction to escape.

    I feel great. I feel so pleased with progress. Once again, we had just amazing, bonding, intimate, sharing, cozy time together and then, once again and like clock work, during our time apart the NVs just ravaged me. I feel great because this time I just KNEW they were coming, KNEW what it was. I braced for for the blow, and it sure did suck just as much as ever, except this time I could “see” it, if that makes any sense. Every thing they said to me STILL made me feel miserable, but I thought to myself (and said to them) “Oh, THERE you are. Okay, let’s get on with it. I’m going to get some coffee before we start. Would you like some, too?”

    I still feel like I came out with a black eye, but almost a smirk, too.

  286.  #286lovetodance on January 12, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    your post made me smile gemini goddess…. adorable…

    sometimes when i ‘think’ too much of the ideas, the tools….i get sorta weird and self conscious…and i need to take time away and feel into myself…and my natural lovely inclinations….that inherently have’ tools’ in place….

    yet i know that this work is valuable for me and not all… at all… ‘inherently’ in place….so its always a matter of integrating and reconciling with that which is already naturally going in me and that which needs work ….

  287.  #287Zia on January 12, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    So it seems my boyfriend who was very anti-kids when we first got together is now saying it’s something he may be open to down the track. And I started off wanting the option to have kids and as time went on I swung the other way and was ok with not having anymore, so it’s strange now to be considering it as an option again. Feels really good to be in a relationship where I am happy to relax and go with the flow and accept what is, rather than being so focused and set on an end game of “marriage + kids” like I was in all three previous relationships. I feel excited to see where this relationship continues to go and how it continues to grow 🙂

  288.  #288Azure Blu on January 12, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Gemini Goddess #279
    Love this:
    ““Oh, THERE you are. Okay, let’s get on with it. I’m going to get some coffee before we start. Would you like some, too?”
    Ahhh… i feel your swagger in this…
    the Siren power
    and You loving those feelings!!!’

  289.  #289Azure Blu on January 12, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    nice to see you here…
    I feel curious how you are doing?

  290.  #290Tereana on January 12, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Andrea 253 – Thank you! I believe the post you were looking for is #224? There was another one, where I reframed “sl*t” to stand for Single Lady Under no obligation To be chaste. I like that one ; )

    I like that one.

    But, on the other hand…I also decided, I am also *not* under any obligation to not be chaste, if that’s what I decide to do. That is, chastity or not chastity is my choice, and it doesn’t have to be influenced by anyone else’s opinion but my own.

    Like with AJ. I think I pretty much “dumped” him yesterday. Yeah. Well, he was saying some things that just didn’t fly with me. Because first off, he was being very sexual in the texts. And at first I was uncomfortable, and then I was like, ok. Maybe this could be fun. So I played along a little. I’ll admit, I encouraged him, even, and just barely participated myself. That was all him. And then he suggested something that I absolutely did not want to do in real life. So I practiced saying my “no.” I was sweet about it. I said, “That’s great as a fantasy, but I’m going to say no to that right now, because I’m not comfortable with it. But you can visualize all you want. : )” And I thought my message was totally cool and not overboard or anything like that.

    Well, what do you know…instead of being like, “Ok, whatever you want, princess,” he demoted me. He said that, well, maybe he wasn’t going to buy me a drink after all. But we could still totally have sex. HA!!!! Yeah, right, buddy. Not in this lifetime.

    He was sadly mistaken.

    Of course, these are tricky moments for me. I end up feeling “triggered.” I feel as if I can’t trust my decision. I think to myself, “Maybe I’m just chucking away another perfectly good man. I could be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.” I’ve thought all these thoughts before a million billion times. They are so old hat.

    I am brainsplatting right now.

    I just feel so alone. This is the height of my PMS time, and my emotions are just off the hook. Every little thing – sound, touch, smell – it’s like a rocket into my brain. So noisy. I lost my cool at work today. Ugh. How to face them tomorrow? Stand tall. Take a deep breath. Be real. And….I don’t know. Maybe we humble. Or try.

    The loneliness can be all-consuming. I want to reach out and find comfort in companionship. But then the closeness is too much and it brings on stress and other strong emotions. I feel like I can’t win.

    Andrea, I loved, loved, loved what you were saying about how you began to love your “sl8tty” self, and only after that did you stop attracting men who were interested in you only for sex…

    You see. I wonder…if I’m just letting my principles get in my way here. Am I supposed to just let AJ like me for sex and nothing else? I mean, that is his single track mind, of course. And here I am, sitting in judgement, telling myself that he’s just a stupid guy, and he’ll never know what a wonderful woman I am, and blah blah blah. But in a way, who cares? But I mean…really. How am I supposed to have sex with a guy who won’t even pretend to make a gesture of getting to know me first? Where is the fun in that? Where is the connection? Isn’t that just like prostitution?

    And, well, talk about peeling back another layer. I sometimes feel that sexual situations make me feel like I am being regarded as similar to a prostitute, even if that isn’t what they are actually doing. But I have that feeling inside me, and it’s a big judgment about me. It could be that there is a way for me to learn to love this part of me, too, in an active way.

    Anyway, I am tired now. I still have to decide what I am doing for my class tomorrow. Whoo! It’s late…Good night!

  291.  #291Gemini Goddess on January 12, 2015 at 8:32 pm


    My two cents…and I do loooove my sl*tty self too, but if it is causing…for one minute…self doubt, second guessing, self-judgment, whatever…no s#x. When I was CDing by the book, and by that I mean date three sleep with one (maybe that was my own rule, can’t remember), I had to let one go who was “just” for (excellent) sex because it made me feel too crappy. Not sure why he/it made me feel crappy, but NOT worth it…NEXT!

  292.  #292Mistea1 on January 12, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    This is a funny/not so funny story. I’ve started to feel fear again today. 4 days until MusicTd returns. THe picture is up in in the hall and big plans for a party on Sunday the 18, plus the ads for the event at the art museum.

    I did my EFT about the fear and the words psychic attack and annihilation came up. Reference 200.

    Then I thought about the new one, Lawguy, we are still emailing and have switched to private emails. I thought how I would like him to come to the service with me next week for support.

    Course we haven’t met yet so I can’t expect this level. I had to laugh when I thought this guy is a former Marine. Ha, ha, I am so concerned about this issue I want to call in the Marines! Oh, too too funny.

  293.  #293Tereana on January 12, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    Andrea – I forgot to mention before that I super-loved your post where you were talking about praying for PRESENCE. Honestly, that is the thing I pray for the most. And I feel that. Wanting to be HERE, truly here, in fullness and totally alive. I sometimes *think* that I am present, but that’s just it. You can’t “think” it. You have to BE it. And I’m still learning. Practicing. One of these days, I hope to feel it fully. Then I think I might feel different about everything.

    But perhaps we don’t have to be so hard on ourselves. Maybe it’s not possible to be fully present literally all of the time. Or maybe the Tibetan monks have done it.

    Anyway, what you wrote was really beautiful…

  294.  #294Tereana on January 12, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    Gemini Goddess – that’s a really good point!

  295.  #295Tereana on January 12, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    And speaking of being sl8tty (aka under no obligation to be chaste – just chased. Haha!!), then there was the whole inspiration for this thought process. That was the Guy I spent the night with last week. He’s one of my travel dudes.

    And I’ve decided, it’s pretty convenient actually to sleep with someone right before they leave town, because then you don’t have to worry about them contacting you the next day. He was even talking about all his traveling, and I was like, “really. We don’t have to get together.” And I meant it.

    In fact, I’ve been thinking much more about AJ these past few days. F*ing AJ. Or not, as the case may be…

  296.  #296Lovetodance on January 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    Hello azure blu. I Lways feel so warmed and included by you. You have a gift!

    I have not been feeling very sireny actually
    Not been strutting my stuff

    Feeling like I am looking everyone of my 66 years. Gosh such a big number! I am on a cleanse and can see very slowly some luster coming back. I know that beauty is an inside job. But boy oh boy. When I don’t see it in the mirror. I get loowwww

    I know this too shall pass. I am committed to bringing my health up to snuff and that’s my biggest commitment now.

    I am relating to men now warmly and as friends. Not as possible romantic sexy prospects. Just don’t seem to have the confidence or sizzle right now

    Kinda unde wraps and under construction if you know what I mean

    Thank you again to all of siren island. For your trials an tribulations, humor anger joy frustration explorations. Etc.

    I learn I keep learning.

    I respect the depth and honesty and rawness that is brought here! It is a gift!

  297.  #297Victoria on January 12, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    I am so happy for you with RR guy! You are such a good story teller, I felt the joy, delight and surprise that you experience! You made my day!

  298.  #298lovetodance on January 13, 2015 at 12:56 am


    feel so delighted by your posts and how you express your truth and process…

    i so appreciate your way of seeing how you are healing and how and why you are attracted to whom….

    hurray for all this self knowledge and validation Siren!

  299.  #299Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 3:49 am

    Dixie 273,

    Thank you so much 🙂 And you are very welcome.

    It is lovely to read your updates as well.

    Looks like the apartment is slowly coming together bit by bit… the agent and the seller have been so good about putting together a plan where I can buy the apartment even though it will take me a few months to afford it. Yay! I love it how things happen when you visualise in delicious detail what you want.

  300.  #300Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 3:52 am


    I have joined a free dating site, just for practice in communicating with men… What is a good way to respond to these incessant boring messages that say “hi how are u?” and “Hope you have a great day!”

    If it was a normal person in real life who messaged me like that, I wouldn’t respond, but I am here to practice not shutting down after all.

    Anyone have any suggestions?

  301.  #301Gear on January 13, 2015 at 3:57 am

    Andrea! Yay! Prayer works! I feel happy for you!

  302.  #302Mistea1 on January 13, 2015 at 5:28 am

    Indigo 294,

    I’m having the same issue since I joined too. Somewhere on here is a comment about being picky. I think it was on the TED talk with the lady who did the stats on online dating.

    So this is my modus operandi. If a guy can’t string a complete sentence together or use half way decent grammar, what’s to practice?

    I suppose it means less dates but the one I actually went out with was kind, articulate, and sane. He might make a good friend.

    The one I’m emailing right now is articulate, interesting and fun. Hopefully we will get to meet in a bit.

    I’ve decided not to reply to those short responses. They get all defensive and mean. Who needs it?

    So that’s my take on this with very little experience so far.

  303.  #303Veronica on January 13, 2015 at 5:39 am

    Riley – 190 – At first I was feeling upbeat about these articles – a behavior that damages relationships and their potential to be amazing has been uncovered. And yes I should be adored – why not? But then my quiet voice noted how I, too, feel afraid that even though a commitment may happen, that my partner could walk away. But I wouldn’t want to diminish them : ( I would have to diminish myself too : ( And I certainly don’t want to control them. And the more I considered the articles, the more uncomfortable I began to feel – the pressure of a ‘successful’ marriage/relationship. My thinking became constricted – ‘oh what to do in this situation’ instead of ‘why would I want to continue with someone who didn’t want to be with me in a full relationship?’

    It feels good to know your thoughts on the article x

  304.  #304Veronica on January 13, 2015 at 5:40 am

    Azure Blu -192- I don’t get that vulnerability/authenticity/unzipping your heart vibe at all from the articles either. I feel closed in when I read them.

  305.  #305Femininewoman on January 13, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Indigo how about “thank you”.

  306.  #306Veronica on January 13, 2015 at 6:06 am

    I feel bamboozled (that’s got to be an emotion)

    I can’t wrap my head around this, I can barely gather the emotions together long enough to name them

    I feel scared

    I wanted to decide when babying will happen – to be ready for it – financially etc etc

    How could this have happened when I researched contraception options and chose the one with 2% chance of pregnancy over 10 years? And more than two years of use with no ‘surprises’ whatsoever

    w h a t

    I wanted to be ready : (

    Funny wants children but will not pressurize for them

    He loves children and I KNOW will be hands on with them/he/she

    He wants to support me, in whatever way, wants to plan and talk and is ready and available to talk and plan ASAP

    Will a surprise baby have less of a chance?

    I don’t hate children but I also am not broody for children….never thought it would be a real consideration (waiting for a father that a child would blossom with)

    Feeling stunned

    It’s too early in the relationship – will our relationship get hurt? Are there future hurts we can avoid?

    I feel emboldened to live my dreams everyday because little one is a witness – prospect of little one is making me feel courageous

    Funny is feeling excited and also trepidation – wants to bring future plans (living together, etc) forward

    Tomorrow we’ll be plotting futures in a very quiet art gallery

    We’re both planners

    Feeling so nervous and scared – a child –

    Went online and found a really good poetess who adores her little one – her poetry/living/loving so alive – this encourages me to pursue my own loves …my own loves

    Have any sirens here had surprise babies/been in this situation?

  307.  #307Labbit on January 13, 2015 at 6:10 am

    294 Indigo — I wouldn’t respond to the latter (“Hope you have a great day!”). To me it doesn’t really warrant one, I just let myself feel the good feelings of being wished a nice day and leave it there.

    For the weak opener from men my annoyance with this meant it was time to make up a game! So I did an A/B test of sorts. With about half the men that sent this I would give them what they gave me — I’d respond ‘Hey I’m feeling good and you?”

    The other half I’d practice my daily poetry of emotions. I’d say something like “I feel so flushed after my morning run!” or “I feel cold today, I could just stay cuddled under the covers for hours.” or “I’m feeling really satisfied after the yummy breakfast I just made!” or “I rocked a client meeting at work today and I feel so alive right now!”

    The poetry was definitely better for opening men up..though it didn’t work on all men.

  308.  #308Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:46 am

    Ohhh… My… Yay for your apartment!!!

    as for the online practice…
    I too was struggling with the
    short answers from them
    and no questions for me to keep the messaging going for at least a little while…

    I would feel a little miffed…
    Like, jeesh… you can’t ask me a question???
    but I decided these statements
    deserved at least an “Ohhh… I see…”
    Or “That makes me feel sunny and happy”
    and then I would ask them a question
    “What was your favorite cereal when you were growing up?”
    Or what’s your favorite movie you’ve seen this year…
    and then of course…
    if I felt interested in this guy
    I don’t like to online message too long (waste of time for me)
    I say “It would feel good to hear your voice and talk on the phone…what do you think?”
    They always give me their number… :~))

  309.  #309Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:55 am

    ohhhh… Veronica…
    What Big news…

    I have been surprised a couple of times with a pregnancy but knew it was not the time for me…
    i was not too young age wise (19 & 35)
    BUT emotionally i was not Mom material…
    The two I have were both planned…

    So lovely to have a good man to talk over
    the joy and surprise of it all…
    I feel happy, sunshiny excitement for you!!!

  310.  #310Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Mistea1 296,
    I tend to agree with you. When it comes to someone I don’t know, I give them a chance but only up to a point. I’ll respond initially with a feeling message or two, but if they don’t up their game, as you say, who needs it? I’m responding purely for the sake of practicing, but I am ruthless about blocking anyone I don’t want to hear from.

    Feminine Woman 299,
    As you say, sometimes that is all you need to say 🙂

    Labbit 301,
    I am more or less taking your suggestion. Using these guys as an opportunity to practice my poetry and feeling messages – using it as an opportunity to practice exactly what I think would be a good thing to say, and see what response I get? with no investment in the outcome whatsoever. I’ll use it as an opportunity to see how I feel in the moment.

    Azure Blu 302,
    I agree. Making things interesting by asking them a question is a great idea. And I totally agree about moving to a phone conversation when I no longer feel like emailing. All practice!

    Thank you Sirens!

  311.  #311Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 9:19 am


    Are you pregnant? Congratulations dear heart.

    I have so much faith that you and Funny will figure out exactly what you feel moved to do in this amazing and surprising situation.

    This has never happened to me, but I have played over the possibility in my mind many times. It may sound cliché, but I really believe what is meant to be, will be.

  312.  #312Veronica on January 13, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Azure Blu – 303 – Oh gosh it feels so good to hear from you in this crazy, exciting, scary moment! Thank you so much for sharing with me. I want to ask you how you knew you weren’t emotionally mom material. Do you like having children? It sounds like a weird question – to my mind there’s nothing to compare it to, it seems so huge. (Not the act of having children but rather that you are the mother of two people in this world)

  313.  #313Veronica on January 13, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Indigo – 305 – Yes. The doctor guessed the moment I told him my symptoms – then we did an ultrasound and pregnancy test which confirmed what he thought. Thank you so much for your kind words – they do so much for me as I try to wrap my head around this. xoxoxo
    “This has never happened to me, but I have played over the possibility in my mind many times. It may sound cliché, but I really believe what is meant to be, will be.”Oh yes, with the odds that the little one was facing, I almost want to try playing the lottery : )
    I wanted to say that I like the idea of practicing with the online dating site especially following what you’re feeling in relation to what men say/do/not do. The way you phrased how you wanted to approach being online with these men is very sireny!
    I didn’t respond to ‘hi’ or ‘call me’, if they made an effort as in introduce themselves then I’ll briefly respond in kind – I found that the really kind men introduced themselves. I also look at pictures to see if they made an effort choosing their picture. Also, I felt inspired by what Azure did, which was look at men’s profiles and learn from my responses as to those profiles to make my own more an experience of me. I met Funny that way – he visited my profile, I looked at his profile which I thought was really fun and I ‘liked’ it.

    Will you still be able to take your walks by your new apartment? It’s so exciting – good luck xxx

  314.  #314Victoria on January 13, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    I did something strange today. I was off work and so was F and we had a date. I called him at about the time we had set (as we had agreed) and he said he had to be late because he had a problem with a. overseas payment he was making. I said ok I will wait but he could hear in my voice I was pissed. Then I remembered I could see a friend in the neighborhood and called him and said ” honey I will see a friend since you will be late, just take your time and give me a call when you are done”. He was an hour and a half late but I was fine with my friend, and then we had a lovely date and he was so loving and grateful that I did not nag.
    So, I did not enforce my boundary, but still felt very good. There is just a little voice ( not sure if it is a NV or just a feeble voice) which says “he will never learn to be on time in this life time”. But I can kind of live with that. So, instead of changing him I am changing myself. Is this ok? I kind of think so…

  315.  #315Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 2:04 pm


    I absolutely LOVE your story…so many parts of it. Thank you SO much for sharing all of it.

    Right now I feel so inspired by the example of total, genuine, no-intention-attached, leaning back, what it looks and feels like, and how he just came soaring back in grand fashion. WOW!

    I also relate entirely to your desires for yourself and your daughters. I have two kids at home, and I so much want THEM to see ME in the kind of relationship I want and deserve.

  316.  #316Mistea1 on January 13, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    My dear, you know the answer to this one. The only one you can change is yourself! 🙂

  317.  #317Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 2:09 pm


    I think that’s totally fine if you are truly okay with it. It would make me CRAZY. Chronic lateness is a major trigger for me.

  318.  #318Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Just took myself out for a lunch date at a café on the water to think about the authentic leaning back thing. I had such an urge for fresh air and contemplation.

    What I realized, what felt so profound that I couldn’t quite define it, is exactly the basis of all this. Andreas leaning back was totally effective because it was unintentional. No intention toward RR. She was expanding her own life. It wasn’t a means to an ends with RR. It was totally authentic.

    I feel huge love filling my chest that this suddenly became 3D (4D even?… another topic).

    Walking back to work, I felt so light, so inspired, so much joy, fresh air and warm sun filling my soul. My new mantra will be “What can I do to expand my life today?”

    Thanks again, Andrea. 🙂

  319.  #319Lotus on January 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    I feel triggered by J! He asked if I had a full working week, and asked what I was doing tomorrow as I’m off. He said ‘the mind wanders… lingerie shopping? :))’ and I just got pissed off and I’m here instead of responding in anger! I know the guy is horny, and yes he’s been sweet and trying to get to know me, but really, can he just stop… At this point, the more he goes on about it, the more I feel turned off! ppfffff!
    And then on the flip side, I think, yes I would feel Goddessy to be lingerie shopping, and indulging in luxuries for myself and not a bad idea.. if only I could afford it and it would benefit me 100% and give me more siren-ny lingerie choices.. and a siren deserves ample fine jewellery and lingerie and all sorts… and I realise I’m triggered with all sorts of things, about my body (post Christmas fat!!), about the man wanting to be pleased with visual delights, and really the poor man just wants me… and I wont give it to him yet. But at this rate, he’s not going to if I don’t steady him. I just want him to hang on for another 2wks until I reach my own rule of 1mth until sex… and obviously he can’t know about that right?!

  320.  #320Lotus on January 13, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    Victoria – I feel so pleased reading about your progress with F. Yay! It’s fab to hear you’ve been leaning back more and gradually feeling more comfortable. Remember gradual is always better than drastic steps as they can feel too alien.

    I truly believe once we change, other people change too or they ‘fall off’. I certainly notice that myself, as really I become less bothered about people’s reactions as I have felt calmer inside and more in control. I feel as though I’m finding a flow – a better equilibrium..

    I find the more leaned back I am and relaxed, the more I notice the sensations in my body as I’ve slowed down.. I enjoy my drink more, I feel more curious about the person in front of me, I feel myself more and I talk less. it’s as if things go slower and I’m learning to be in the moment more.

    I have found that the more leaned back I am, the less I put up with people being late – as in I don’t get so angry anymore, but I see it as their culture, so either I turn up later for them as I spent more time on myself or I don’t wait around anymore and tell them I’ll be at so and so, making sure i’m enjoying doing something else! Just some of my thoughts!! 🙂

  321.  #321Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    veronica #306
    Ohhhh… my goodness..
    I LOVE having children and Grandchildren!!!

    I always say… I am the woman I am today because of my children…
    They taught me how to give until I couldn’t give anymore – emotionally, physically and financially
    To LOVE more than I ever thought possible
    To Change ME for the sake of someone else
    To say I’m sorry quickly
    To laugh and Sing and Play
    Every minute of everyday they challenge me
    to give them room to grow and fly
    and to standby when they are in need of a
    place to land…

  322.  #322Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    Lotus #314
    Mmmmm… I do love this
    “leaning back more and
    gradually feeling more comfortable.
    Remember gradual is always better than
    drastic steps
    as they can feel too alien.”

    I really like how you expressed this…
    because I too have been feeling this…
    “the more leaned back I am
    and relaxed,
    the more I notice the sensations in my body
    as I’ve slowed down..
    I enjoy my drink more,
    I feel more curious
    about the person in front of me,
    I feel myself more and I talk less.
    it’s as if things go slower
    and I’m learning to be
    in the moment more.”

  323.  #323Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    lovetodance #290
    I soooo understand what you are saying…
    I am 63yrs and sometimes It is sooo hard to
    see me
    looking this age!!! :-0

    It was a Rori coached that helped me with this…
    to look in the mirror and find 2 things that I really like about myself…
    for me it was my sapphire blue eyes
    and my natural, thick, blond hair
    Every time I look into the mirror
    I must look at MY eyes and My hair
    and smile and say “Azure, you have such
    beautiful blue eyes”
    I lOVE your blue eyes,,, I love YOU, Azure!!!
    The same with my hair…
    I started doing this last year and it really
    made a difference!!!
    Maybe you could try that?

    Also about 2 years ago I started
    working out in my living room (very small townhouse)
    to Jillian Michaels DVD “ripped in 30 days”
    25 min workouts… 4 to each disk
    WOW… that has changed the way I look!!!
    I have the body of a 40 year old!!
    And I feel strong, toned and it helps my mood!!!
    I fluctuate between 4-2 times a week…
    It’s intense… start slow if you haven’t worked out in awhile…
    Just some things I have done to combat the
    NV of middle age…

  324.  #324lovetodance on January 13, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    azure….bless your beautiful soul!

    i was feeling very vunerable…feeling as i had come out….

    saying outloud my age….and not hearing any siren voices in response….even tho i hadn’t asked a question…

    and i know that part of my work with this work is about being vunerable….and suspected that there might be a feeling statement to write on our blog about all these feelings….

    so as i turned on the computer….to possibly compose around this….there was your lovely, supportive spirit chiming in….
    and i went ‘ahhhhh, thank you thank you….’

    i think mistea was the one who said…something about that chronological age does not mean we are all that in every area….

    i think emotionally …..romantic, sexual wise with men….particularly the ones i get attracted to….i can revert back to high school shyness, gaminess, indirectness and insecurity….maybe that happens to all of us on a spectrum….but ahhh i digress….

    i can feel like the old lady here and yet not at all….thats why i love this blog….to feel how each of us, no matter what age…the wisdom we all have collectively and individually and…. the strength!

    so thank you azure
    thank you so much for responding …i feel supported and heard and accepted by your response

    age has been something the NV’s have tapped into strongly recently…..

  325.  #325Mistea1 on January 13, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    GG 312,
    I’ve been thinking the same thing. I’ve been enjoying reading about the benefits of the leaning back. I’ve been thinking about the situation. I’m thinking about would I rather be right or be happy. I’m ashamed to say that I’m considering being right over being happy.

    However, I have decided to do the ultimate lean back and leave this place. Any one wanting to know why can read #200. I’ve found enough other live music to listen to and more importantly iI am beginning create my own music. I supose that is the point of this whole thing.

  326.  #326lovetodance on January 13, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    and azure….

    i love your examples of how you deal with these NV’s
    believe me at 15 i had them…it was always something….not thin enough, not smart enough, not funny or bold enough, not creative enough, not pretty enough….oh my gosh….and none of it true!

    i have been at my upper weight limit and beginning to take it off….i have danced all my life…
    have taught dance, been an exercise teacher , and performed as a dancer for many years…..

    thankyou heavens this has been my path….

    and recently just have been bogged down….
    i love Zumba, haven’t gotten the schedule and gym yet in synch…but looking…i am liscensed to teach it….that is still yet to come….

    i love shaking my bootie….yup …. something to know that that doesn’t go away….that i think will never end….dancing gives me that high and feeling of complete one-ness with life that fills me up , makes me joyfull and invaribly helps me connect with anyone i am dancing with….

    so yes, i love the idea of the workout…i trust what it has done for you and i will check it out tonite…

    when you describe yourself….i so see that….and having a body of a 40 year old goes along way in feeling and being the siren you are….

    and i know that when i feel good and doing what i’m spose to in the world…i can even be ‘overweight’ and still rock it…just now i know i need that slim kick start feeling for confidence…my personal inner rhythem at the moment….

    i have about 12 pds a to take off….and when i do …i know I will TAKE OFF …in the meantime i am subterranean and it feels right….my cleanse is clearing my skin…starting to see the glow return…and today feeling ‘beautiful’ once more…

    thank you again azure for you ….and thank you sirens on this island for being here…MWAH!

  327.  #327April Rose on January 13, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    I went speed dating. Wow. That was an unexpected experience.

    I was given a piece of paper and after each ‘date’ I was to write comments next to the man’s name as well as tick yes or no whether I wanted to meet him again.

    Well, I was nervous. And very smiley. The first man seemed kind of awkward, he was looking down a lot. But he made sense and seemed intelligent, and after a couple of minutes he started to look up and even made eye contact once or twice.

    Then I didn’t have much chance to write my notes about him because the next man arrived. He was very smiley and humorous and perhaps nervous and was easy to talk to.

    Another four men after that, all perfectly pleasant and on good behaviour. After six men I still hadn’t ticked yes or no for any of them. I was a little puzzled over that.

    Then the seventh man came and it was like I felt suddenly all cringey and I knew I couldn’t possibly meet him again and the three minutes went on for ages! I knew this one was a ‘no’!

    Likewise the eighth man. Oh nooo. He wouldn’t let a conversation happen, he just fired random questions at me and looked a little like he was drooling.

    The ninth man simply complained about how women are so possessive and how couples need to have separate hobbies!

    Next came a pretty ancient looking fellow. His body language was closed and defensive. He tried asking me standard questions, but seemed really uninterested. he then revealed that he was a recent widow from a 38-year marriage and had been pushed into speed dating by his son. I said something about only doing what you feel is right when you are ready and he relaxed and looked relieved.

    Then a really cute but tiny guy came along and we had a wonderful conversation. By this time I was beginning to be myself, and being silly and playful and getting guys to imagine future scenes of wedded bliss!!

    The pace was pretty frantic, though. I had no time to write down anything because as soon as one guy got up to leave the next one was already waiting, holding his hand out and saying his name!

    It was getting towards the end, the third from last guy arrived and asked me how I was doing. I said I felt flustered and kind of befuddled by the pace. He reminded me it was called speed dating, so I giggled at that.

    The atmosphere changed tangibly with the arrival of Mister Number 15. He sat down next to me and suddenly I was totally calm. He asked me if I was nervous. I was surprised to find that I wasn’t. I told him “I have been nervous most of the night, but at this moment I feel so very relaxed. I feel like I have space to breathe”. The feeling continued. Our ‘date’ was over way too soon.

    The last guy arrived and I liked the intellectual look about him. He told me I was quirky and that he was sorry he missed out on having children in his life. I said he still could, and told him of a friend of mine who fathered his first son at age 56. This made him beam. His conversation then went between really sensible interesting things, and telling me the most precious treasure in his life had been his cat, and that the cat’s name was a secret. At the end he bought me a drink, talked a little more about his cat, gave me his number, and left.

    I left the place wondering if I had just been filmed for ‘Candid Camera’ and feeling strangely dreamlike and giggly. I had handed in my sheet of paper with eleven yes’s ticked on it. That’s eleven potential conversations with a message, and eleven potential opportunities for great practice, one potential work associate, and one mmm, maybe something more…

  328.  #328lovetodance on January 13, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    319 mistea

    i have a wise friend who told me she realized she always fell for the men who were creative…photographer, writers, painters…etc….

    and then she realized why….it was what she wanted to be….all that creativity was her…in her and yet to be totally accessed…

    so yes, finding the music which you are inside yourself and purposefully letting it come out….and hone it and practice it….oh my gosh what a gift from this situation….

    and i can see living the physical space that causes you the angst….you can always go back at a later date…to see how you have grown….

  329.  #329Emerson on January 13, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    321 Awww April Rose…
    I literally laughed and felt my eyes well up with tears while reading this….wow I feel inspired and I feel like I was right there sitting with you….so well written with so much heart…
    I’ve always felt curious about speed dating, never had the guts to try it….
    Now I might just give it a go…
    Thanks for sharing about this experience and thank you for you your inspiration!! <3

  330.  #330lovetodance on January 13, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    last comment to mistea

    i meant ‘leaving’ not ‘living’ the physical [and physic] space that causes you the angst….

  331.  #331Emerson on January 13, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    Sirens, I am in full swing with CDing….
    I have two more dates this week with men I met online….
    It’s like one blind date after another lol!!!
    It’s good for me though,,,I am experimenting with what to wear and how to fix my hair and makeup so I feel like I’m “date ready”….
    I always do my hair and makeup anyway, but I’m paying more attention! Switching things up a bit…breaking out my heels that I never wear…throwing on a piece of jewelry here or there, and feeling open and not expecting anything….

    I had a terrible date over the weekend…the guy had been asking me over and over to meet….(from online site) and I finally gave in…I already wrote about it earlier….and it’s ok, that can go in the archives of dates to laugh about… It’s all good!

    I still feel piney about CuteCityCD and I’m realizing that it’s because I’ve attached certain sentiments to him…
    and 322 Lovetodance you kind of made me realize something with what you wrote here…

    I’ve been doing a little pining (not as much…) and idealizing CuteCity with all these qualities and perhaps putting him on a pedestal…

    and suddenly I realize they are qualities I want for myself…
    earthy, kind, passionate, smart, successful, financially secure, sexual, sensual, practical, funny, confident, authentic, cute, effortless, not trying “too hard” and being fabulous….gosh I’ve afforded him all of these qualities …and although it may be true that he is some …or part….. or all of those…really I want those qualities for myself!!

    I am out and about today doing errands and relaxing a bit in a cafe…and I’ve been practicing water wheeling…it is funny how men look and notice me when I do it …hehe…I’m having fun with it and practicing for my dates this week…

  332.  #332CurvySiren10 on January 13, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    Azure 315~~ such a lovely expression of motherhood. I couldn’t agree more. You have a way with words beautiful siren 🙂

  333.  #333Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    Emerson #325
    Your Vibrations are Awesome…
    So light and sunny and Zinging!!!
    Happy and Fun…

    I love what you wrote here: Interesting…
    I know Spirit has many of the qualities as your
    I think they are many qualities I would like for myself…

  334.  #334Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    Lovetodance… #320
    Ohhhh… i’m so glad you felt supported by my post!!
    ;~> I feel happy, smiley from your compliments!!

    I so agree with what you are saying…
    I just realized reading your post
    When I have a deep infatuation with a man
    I DO turn into a giddy 20 year old!!
    And I point my finger at the men…
    Saying ohhh… they are acting rather boyish…
    But isn’t that the fun part of infatuation,
    of liking someone you are dating??

    but, some of the issue with this is
    My feelings start overflowing
    not contained… spilling onto
    the man
    which must feel overwhelming to HIM
    Cause MY feelings are overwhelming
    to me…
    Realizing that is what I do
    Is the first step in leaning back,
    slowing down, feeling MY feelings
    when this comes up again.

  335.  #335Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    Mistea1 319

    Sounds like a good plan to me. It’s all about what feels right and best for you and your “POP” (purpose on planet). No explanation to anyone else needed. So impressed by your passion.

    I am struggling to find my passion, my POP. I was an International Flight Attendant in my twenties and into my thirties, then a stay home mom… Not a recipe for an impressive resume in your forties.

    Now I’m divorced with the two kids, and though grateful for the job I have and many things about it, I’m definitely underpaid, underutilized, and uninspired. Small company. No chance for promotion.

    This is where I must expand my life to benefit all other parts, and frankly what scares the cr*p out of me most. I feel like an awkwardly floundering amateur, and would like to just continue sticking my head in the sand and focus on something else, ANYTHING else.

    Guess I’m riffing/venting/whatevering a bit, here.

  336.  #336Mistea1 on January 13, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    lovetodance 322,

    Yeah, maybe I can go back to play the organ!
    you are right about wanting to do.

    I realized early on that I wanted to play again. I used to be pretty good. I’m feeling better and better about this decision.

    Plus the epitame of love is to love the person enough to let them go if it’s best.

    thanks for your insightful comments.

  337.  #337Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    what a great read!!!
    thank you
    i too felt like i was there!!

  338.  #338Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 6:12 pm


    Please sprinkle some of your professional confidence dust on me!

  339.  #339Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    and what a Siren throughout the evening
    it sounds soo crazy to me

  340.  #340Azure Blu on January 13, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Ohhh… thank yu… I feel soo warm and happy hearing those words from you!!

  341.  #341Mistea1 on January 13, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    GG 329,

    Rumi the mystic poet says:
    “Someone who doesn’t make flowers makes thorns.
    If you’re not building rooms where wisdom can be openly spoken, you’re building a prison.”

    Barbara Sher has written a number of books about finding your passion.
    When I was your age with 3 kids I took her advice about remembering what I liked to do when I was a little girl. She had exercises to help. I can’t remember the name of the book. She is a USA writer. Try doing some reflecting. Plus the example you set for the children is invaluable. I have every confidence you can find your POP.

    You don’t need an impressive resume, you need the Rori tools, persistence and never giving up.

  342.  #342Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    Oh, Mistea. Thank you…

  343.  #343IamHis on January 13, 2015 at 7:27 pm


    so, I have been cutting way back on my sugar.

    only a little in my coffee, and a couple of small candies a day.

    I was crying tonight. Because like you, Gemini Goddess, I don’t know what my purpose on this planet is.

    i want to be a wife and mother, but I know now from talking to mothers, that mothers still want to do and be more than that.

    and I wonder why that is…but it seems true…

    so, I went to this career change class tonight, and instead of feeling inspired, I felt drained.

    I cried on my way home in the car.

    I can’t seem to get over all these feelings of regret, and what feels even more scary is that until I can, I will likely only attract men like that.

    i think Foreign guy really likes me, and that feels scary.

    and the scary feelings are what kept me away from a man I loved and broke my own heart.

    I just had no idea how much it would hurt.

    and I feel angry that no one told me how much it would hurt, or how to say what I needed to say, or how to get over all the fear I had inside.

    anyway, I was crying in the car and I came home to my parents, who are letting my pathetic self live with them at the age of 30 until I figure things out.

    I hadn’t had dinner. Mistake #1.

    Low blood sugar.

    I wanted some candy that my Mom keeps hidden for me.

    I asked her for it.

    She said, “Haven’t you already had your candy today?”

    I hadn’t.

    I snapped at her.


    I felt anger, not just for that question, but for how I know how her bony self disapproves of my curvy body.

    For the years where I felt insecure and unattractive around men who really didn’t care or even loved my curvy body, because of hurtful things she said, and because of my Dad’s preference for skinny women.

    and I felt anger because she didn’t support my relationship with “the guy who brought me here.”

    and I hate bringing him up, but I bring him up because he represents my youth, my innocence, my faith, the before and after split that changed my beliefs, my theology, and filled me with so much anger and so many questions it would take me years and books and tears to unravel.

    The anger I felt with so many men after him. My willingness to just give up on relationships now, because the devastating pain doesn’t even seem worth it.

    I vaguely remember pain with SMC. and SMC was kind of a joke, really, in comparison. There was something so familiar, though.

    I guess I blame Mom for a lot. For not believing or knowing or supporting my love for “the guy who brought me here.”

    For not…believing that guys cared about me or encouraging me with guys I really cared about, telling me that “they probably would never get married,” and then becoming so GUSHY and APPROVING with the “skinny” women they do end up marrying.

    but never approving of me.

    and I feel so much rage seeing younger girls expecting babies with amazing guys I walked away from because I was still in too much pain and I’ve seen way too many marriages suffer because the woman or man still wasn’t over someone, even though they got married to someone else.

    Rushing the heart.
    Scared of not getting married.

    I will not get married because I’m rushing my heart to heal, or because I’m scared of not getting married.

    I WON’T DO IT!!!!

    So, long story short, I snapped at my Mom.

    and do you know what happened?

    My dad came to my room “wanting to talk.”

    and my Mom is next to him all teary because I snapped at her, and she wants an apology.

    and Dad told me I had an attitude.

    and I wanted to scream about the HUNDREDS of times that my mother screamed at me. but I wasn’t an adult woman, capable of understanding hormones and pain and the complexities of relationships.

    I was a scared little girl who didn’t know any better.

    and I still have problems not being able to detach my mother’s emotions from my own emotions.

    It’s like I can always feel my mother’s emotions and have difficulty not feeling her negative emotions. (and she has many.)

    and so they are standing outside my bedroom, wanting an apology, and I don’t feel my mother’s pouty-2-year-old “oh no! my daughter snapped at me.”

    and I wanted to yell at my Dad that the only reason he wanted an apology was because he was sleeping with her. and I feel angry at him because for the first time in my life, I noticed him being strongly attracted to a woman other than my Mom.

    and I feel livid at this married guy who had a chance to be with me, but chose not to, and now stares acts like he still has a crush on me even though he’s married.

    and his wife acts weird around me.

    and if someone tells me that these are all my perceptions and all in my head, I might snap their heads off.

    because while I know that’s a possibility, I am so sick of not trusting my own intuition.

    Just needed to riff…

  344.  #344IamHis on January 13, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    I haven’t heard from CP in a while. I wonder if I scared him off. I communicated very honestly about a lot of my issues, about how I want my mother’s approval of the men in my life, even though I know I shouldn’t need it, about how sometimes her disapproval causes me to lose interest…

  345.  #345IamHis on January 13, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    CP: You know I’m kinda messing with you, right? Yeah you’re awesome but I’m not a stage 9 clinger.

    this was after he was all like, “why haven’t I heard from you? and I said I’d been busy. ( I had!)
    and that was how he replied.

    Later on, I opened up to him about why I felt completely terrified about meeting him and telling my parents about meeting him.

    He said, “that’s a bit much.”

    and then he went into male fixing my problems mode.

  346.  #346IamHis on January 13, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    here’s what really got me though:

    “Yeah I am feeling like you’re trying to explain your emotions in such a complex way that most people wouldn’t understand plus a lot of it is reiterated and repetitive.”

    I don’t care that he poofed.

    but I am feeling completely freaked out about his “messages” for me, on a metaphysical level…

  347.  #347gear on January 13, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    April Rose 321,
    I feel so excited for you. What a great practice and with more to come…from the 11 men you selected. Go for you!

    I have one speed dating tomorrow. I hope I will meet as many men too, great men.


  348.  #348IamHis on January 13, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    I know I’m being a blog hog, and I feel guilty for that.

    I just feel thankful that I can, and it feels so good to have all that written out and OUT OF ME and just the fact that someone might read it and relate.

    so, thanks…

  349.  #349Liquid Light on January 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    Well he didn’t drop it. I got a rambling message from him yesterday which I didn’t notice until today. About the million zillion ways to reach him, because he lost his phone and someone tried to call him and he figured it was me. And he must of missed my text because he lost his phone. And he doesn’t have my email address so he can’t email me…and to call him at this other number…and leave him a message and he’ll call me back…and yadda yadda yada…good grief…honeslty, for reals?????

  350.  #350Gemini Goddess on January 13, 2015 at 9:01 pm


    You will be a wife to a wonderful, adoring, loving, man, who treasures the bajeezus (sp?) out of you… and the mother of beautiful, amazing little baby(ies).

  351.  #351Tereana on January 13, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    Lovetodance – thank you!

    Incidentally, I also love to dance…:)


    April Rose – so fun to hear about your speed dating! 🙂 that sounds like an awesome night!


    Victoria (I think this was you) – it was interesting to hear about your man who was late. I also struggle with this “boundary.” But then I wonder – is it even a boundary? It could be more of a principle. And lately I feel as if my principles are killing me, romantically. As in, they just get in the way of me being able to relax and be fully in the moment.

    And then recently at work I was talking to my coworker and she is awesome and was telling me his her husband is just always late. But he’s so great. He’ll bring her sandwiches, soup, and coffee at work. He obviously loves her deeply and they have five kids together. You’d never know it, though. They are so young looking. Anyway, my point is, him being late doesn’t make him a bad person or a bad husband. I still don’t know how she manages to not let it bother her, but she doesn’t. I guess she just doesn’t see it as a reflection on her. And it seems to me that’s the healthiest way to see it.

    But I think I’m with you. It’s a struggle. Or can be. In my past relationships, I’ve made a story to myself about how their lateness is about me, or about how they feel about me. Just telling you about my coworker makes me realize it’s not…And it never was.

  352.  #352Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    Liquid Light,

    *yawn* Exhausting.

    I had one of the guys from the dating site message me last night and ask me if I wanted to go out for coffee as friends, and I was going to respond this morning and say that sounded great… I had a hectic day yesterday and was just frazzled and collapsed asleep at 8 pm. This morning I get a message from this guy saying he’ll take my silence as a “hell no” and that he prefers people who are brutally honest. What? Am I that out of touch that I missed the part where we have turned into a world where someone has to reply right away or you reserve the right to get all indignant and offended and jump to assumptions?

    What happened to being secure and patient and confident and having a life, and realizing that you actually don’t know this person and they do NOT have to reply to your text within an hour, or even within a day.

    Venting here.

  353.  #353Emerson on January 13, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    327 ((Azure Blue))

  354.  #354Bopa on January 13, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    I feel very moved.
    I want to sink into a this moved-ness and now my heart feels fluttery and my skin feels buzzy.

  355.  #355Mandy on January 13, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    IAmHis –

    Oh, I was hoping I could respond to your post about the sugar cut-back….

    I have experienced this and I’m just looking back and laughing because it was worth the little nauseous episodes, lol…cutting back on sugar and/or carbs will, at the beginning of your journey, make you feel a little wacky and maybe sometimes upset. For me I felt nauseous and dizzy,; what I did was made sure I was replenishing my electrolytes (with smartwater or even pickle juice, lol) and eating enough during the day, and also resting enough. But yes, it’s VERY common for a person to feel easily upset when starting out a low-sugar/low-carb diet! Especially if you are hypo-glycemic.

    Wanna be my carb/sugar buddy? I’ve been feeling like I haven’t been doing too well and it actually affects my self-esteem, I realized, if I feel like I’m not “winning”. I was losing weight constantly for a whole year then the carb creep happened and though I’ve maintained my loss, I want to lose the last fifteen to twenty I’ve got left. 🙂

    I feel you so much here – I have to live low-carb/no-sugar for the rest of my life 🙂 I’ve accepted it and having a buddy to talk to who gets it helps a lot 🙂 Also having a supportive partner. Even though it’s just not working out for J and I, he did support me during my loss and cooked exactly as needed. THAT was way cool of him 🙂

    But good for you for riffing about your body, that’s nothing to sniff at 🙂

  356.  #356Emerson on January 13, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Indigo 346
    Well you saved yourself wasting time with this guy even as a friend, as it seems he has shown his true colors…sounds pretty rude.

    Men reveal themselves pretty accurately sometimes don’t they…if we give them a chance to…and listen 🙂

  357.  #357Emerson on January 13, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    I haven’t been feeling the roller coaster that kinda goes along with online dating for me…this time around I just feel…..flat.

    I’m trying to psyche myself up for my dates this week, I usually go shopping for something new to do that…but I’m trying not to spend money. I will have to discover another way to accomplish this. I don’t know. I’m feeling uninspired, but I feel open to be inspired.

  358.  #358Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    Veronica 307,

    That is so wonderful! You seem to be handling this so well. Thank you for how you have allowed all of us to share in your journey up to this exciting point.

    Yes, my new apartment is in a very pretty, quiet, suburban neighbourhood, with plenty of places for me to take long walks in the greenery. The thing I love most about my new apartment is the views all the way over the city and to the ocean, with constant cool breezes coming in through the glass doors. I feel giddy just thinking about it.

  359.  #359Indigo on January 13, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    Emerson 350,

    Thank you. He apologised profusely after I pointed out that people are entitled to take their time to respond, that I never do anything in a hurry and need someone who is patient enough to let me do just that.

    He seemed to feel very bad about it, so I’ll see how it goes.

  360.  #360Emerson on January 14, 2015 at 12:01 am

    353 that is good he apologized Indigo…and for me I would proceed with caution. Still not a good sign.

    I’m feeling frustrated with a friend of mine right now who is spiraling out of control with bad self esteem after a bad breakup and immersing herself with bad influences….

    I almost feel like not talking to her for a while…

  361.  #361Emerson on January 14, 2015 at 12:09 am

    I feel curious…Sirens what rituals etc, do you do, if anything, to prepare for a date? I mean more than just doing your makeup and hair, etc…do you do anything special to prepare yourself for a date on the day of??

  362.  #362Radlove on January 14, 2015 at 12:28 am

    Hi Tee,

    I see several of your posts…is it working now? Anything I can do to help?

  363.  #363Indigo on January 14, 2015 at 1:01 am


    Yes sure. It helps to not have any investment in these guys. Really it’s all just practice for me. I am not expecting to meet my soulmate.

    About rituals before a date – I love thinking about this. I like to plan what I’m going to wear from the beginning of the day so I can visualise myself in the outfit. A nice scented bubble bath is great. I’m big on smells – I have a variety of different perfumes and body sprays that I love, and I see which one fits my mood for the day/date. Doing a manicure for yourself from home is also fun. Also other little rituals like tweezing, shaving or waxing, putting on a favourite body lotion… all helps to make the occasion feel special and you to feel like your best self.

  364.  #364Yvette on January 14, 2015 at 1:09 am

    Hi Emerson 🙂
    Gosh I feel happy and shy sharing this.
    If I have time (I schedule it into my date preparation) I lie on the floor in my bedroom, my bedroom speakers and ipod are on a little table (I like listening to beautiful music in my room).
    Anyway I lie on the floor, and I have a playlist on my ipod of gorgeous male singers (mostly Country, I’ll admit) singing love songs that make me feel bright and like I’m soaring.
    I lay there and feel the music washing over me, travelling eagerly to me and pouring into and all over me. These men singing hungrily, joyously, rapturously..
    I really love doing this.
    I feel much more soft and safe since I’ve started practicing this.
    All the music I’ve choosen feels wonderful to me, and I feel good opening RIGHHHHHHT up and soaking it into all my cells. I feel like my “recieving” muscles are getting stronger. I feel very proud and creative about it actually 🙂
    I’d love to hear what some other Sirens have been doing for Rituals – I feel so excited!

    I wanted to come on here and just share something that felt bright and firey for me..
    I was walking to the grocery store and outside two young men were unpacking the stock to take it inside.
    I felt myself relax into my body and I looked at one of them and managed to NOT LOOK AWAY.
    He looked at me and grinned and did a little masculine nod of hello…
    I felt myself flush bright pink and a giggle bubbled up from my chest and I felt as big as the afternoon sky.
    Thanks Rori 🙂 I feel so grateful and glad to engage with men.
    Quick question: If we make eye contact with a man and something like this happens where we’re walking somewhere, would you suggest we stand still, relax and look at him or keep walking?
    I don’t want to walk towards him or approach him.
    I’d love to hear what Rori or one of the coaches thinks.

  365.  #365Viktoria on January 14, 2015 at 2:04 am

    Tereana 345,
    Thanks for addressing the lateness, this is something that is bugging me, and i still have not figured it out.
    First of all, I know for sure that his lateness is a part of his personality, and it is not something he does in order to upset me. He is just phlegmatic – this is how he is with his job, with his friends, relatives, etc. It is just who he is. Otherwise, he is a very intelligent and curious person, but he is slow in responding and I totally can see how this is a major impediment for him professionally. I, on the other hand, am extremely punctual and well organized, and I feel so tempted to try to teach him some time management skills which I am sure would be extremely beneficial for him.
    Still, this is not my job to do in his life. I know now that I should not criticize or teach or try to fix him. I need to just let his masculine energy come towards me, in whatever form it comes, and every thing will be ok. Nothing bad has ever happend from his being constantly late besides that I get pissed off while I am waiting, but then the moment I see him I usually feel such joy that I forget he was late. Until next time when he is late again.
    But I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Also, my best female friend is slow and phlegmatic too – I am getting to think that they are both sent in my life to teach me patience…
    He is very sweet, loving, caring and generous, and it is really easy to melt when I am with him. So, to paraphrase something that Mistea said, it is very tempting for me here to be happy rather than right.
    So I don’t know. I am just letting the story unfold, and we will see where it is going.

  366.  #366IamHis on January 14, 2015 at 2:23 am

    ((((Gemini Goddess)))) – Thank you.
    ((((Mandy))))) – & thank you! That was extremely helpful. I looked it up and it sounds like I might be hypoglycemic.

    Early morning. Can’t sleep. Feel sad & guilty.

  367.  #367Sophie on January 14, 2015 at 2:31 am

    OMG Veronica!!! I cannot believe the turnaround in your life! SO MUCH LOVE TO YOU

    Thank you Azure Blu for your constant welcoming and cheerleading – it feels so encouraging and nurturing 🙂

    Andrea – I felt so interested in your conversation with RR guy 🙂 and woop woop about the result! I’ve often wondered that sometimes what we say in the beginning gets misinterpreted and in their bid to make us happy men actually displease us ha ha – This seems to be such a great example of how when you stick with your feelings, and by yourself, it all works out anyway. Thank you for all the stories you share – they are such nuggets of wisdom

    Now I’m going to read up on all the latest so back shortly….

  368.  #368Sophie on January 14, 2015 at 5:44 am

    Wow even just reading through all the blog had me feeling overwhelmed. There is so much information on here and so many things I wanted to chime in on – just to show I’m listening and I care but it feel so tiring and cerebral. I’ve had a tiring and cerebral day.

    Azure Blu and Lovetodance – I know you need no validation from me but I know you both are absolutely beautiful and I don’t even have to see you to know that. I also know lovetodance how it feels to just not be in your mojo physically – I’ve felt like that for the last year and a half or so I think. For me, the lack of money has spoiled the sprucing I would usually do – I end up going too late on the hair dye, or not being able to afford a wax or a pretty dress. I also put on weight during the B episode and though that doesn’t feel so bad,(I like being curvy) being unfit does – I prefer curvy and toned. I also feel ugh cos my addictions are rife – cigarettes and sleeping pills – months of this pattern that I’m not breaking…

    I hoped to achieve some balance being away but it’s not like that. I am feeling overworked and underpaid and struggling for every penny. I don’t know the answer. I have had opportunities but they haven’t felt the right ones, or the timing hasn’t felt right. I now feel worn down by a dispute with a client who is being unreasonable. I don’t feel equipped to do business navigation. I am doing it to the best of my ability the RR way and trying not to make him wrong, though his emails are quite unpleasant and very unfair.

    I was reading your post about life purpose/or life passion Mistea and it suddenly made me realise that all I want is to be kind. Can I be paid for being kind? That is why I feel so upset when I get responses that feel unkind – because actually all I’ve done in the first place is be kind.

    I have had lots of opportunities whilst away to be kind and to create connections with people. I feel proud of this gift of connection – but all it really is is an ability to be kind to people. Everywhere I’ve stayed the people have come out to wave me goodbye when I’ve left. In the first place I connected with one of the teenage boys who seemed to be got at a lot and when he realised I was leaving, he ran up the path to my moving truck. In the second place, I connected with the teenage girls who cleaned the rooms and left them money and they waved me goodbye, in the shop the lady called me sista and she always complimented my clothes so I gave her a dress. In the last place, the little boy liked spiderman so, when he was ill, I was able to let him watch it on YouTube and he was so happy telling his mum and his nan and they all came and waved me goodbye. I would say te ratio of nice to people to not nice people of all nationalities I’ve had any dealing with in the last ten months has been about 50 nice people to everyone unhappy one. How wonderful is that?!

    Now, I need to work out how to have a career that is about connection and kindness (but not about stress!) – answers on the back of a postcard

  369.  #369Sophie on January 14, 2015 at 5:52 am

    oops ten weeks not ten months!

    ps your apartment sounds so perfect Indigo!

  370.  #370Sophie on January 14, 2015 at 5:55 am

    And I feel needy … so hence would love some male attention … but there is none currently forthcoming … online…in my room … where I am 🙂

  371.  #371Indigo on January 14, 2015 at 5:56 am


    Having spent so many years feeling frazzled and trying to find my niche because of exactly what you are talking about – I just want to be kind – I feel as if what is really working for me, in my career and in my relationships, is just working out how I want to feel, on a day to day basis, and slowly working towards situations that satisfy that, one factor at a time.

    So for example in a job, I need peace and quiet and tranquility, and not to be overly disrupted… but I also need to respect my superior, and I need to feel validated and that I am making a really constructive contribution. Slowly, just knowing these things, as well as the kind of work I feel good doing, has led me more and more in the direction of jobs that feel good to me. I think career guidance advice really makes a mistake, certainly with sensitive people, by focusing so much on what we are *good* at, and not on how we want to FEEL in our jobs, which is the most important thing.

    I just wanted to say also about your client – I do believe there’s a place for RR tools when it comes to work, I also believe there’s a place for masculine energy, when it comes to work. Sort of like switching hats – so, when it comes to business, I think there’s a place for making someone sit up and take notice, and maybe being a certain way that you wouldn’t in your personal relationships. I prefer being soft and feminine and kind by far, but I can engage my assertive, confident side if I need to.


  372.  #372Sophie on January 14, 2015 at 6:08 am

    Hi indigo,

    Thank you for your input – I feel appreciation as always. I am doing what you say I suppose, constantly working through trying to find what feels good for me, freelance works for me in lots of ways – then I get difficult clients and it doesn’t…and also my creativity feels a bit spent on other people’s work (and then there’s none for mine). I suppose though things could get more affluent for me the more established I become.

    I hear what you’re saying too about the masculine/feminine. My sister in law had some excellent, efficient tips for me earlier (back to learning something that feels counter-intuitive). This man seemed very triggered – it was one of those where I felt my best way forward was to voice it in a way that did not make him wrong at all. But yes, masculine energy and confidence does need to be applied too – it feels tricky and it’s a skill, and one I guess, I’m still learning and that makes me feel weepy! I feel so often that the learning curves are steep – too steep for me.

  373.  #373Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 7:17 am

    355 Emerson — I have a bunch of rituals I like to mix up before dates! As you mentioned already one of them involves getting as pampered as possible, so going to get my hair done or my makeup done or my nails done…anything which makes me feel like a prize being attended to by everyone around me. When I do this I really like to take in all the energy coming my way; appreciate all the giving coming towards me. I also like to get waxed sometimes, it makes me feel sexier!

    At home, I’ll burn one of my favorite scented candles (like lavender vanilla if I’m feeling jumpy or midnite jasmine if I want to feel alluring) and then I have two love playlists of music. One is sung by women like Etta James with lower, sexy, sultry voices that make me feel like a million bucks! The other one is all songs sung by men about yearning to be close to the one they want/love, talking about all the things they’ll do for her and I’ll listen to this one when I’m feeling less confident and want to practice receiving from men.

    Sometimes I will listen to a meditation or if I have a ton of extra energy I’ll go for a long walk or work out before my date. If I’m already feeling calm but time isn’t passing very fast and I feel myself jumping up into my head, I’ll go out to a favorite coffee shop where I can sit at a window bench and watch the world outside, making up stories for people that pass by.

    Lastly, on date days sometimes I’ll bury myself in work and focus on getting as much done as possible. Then when the afternoon bell rings and I’m done for the day I feel so accomplished before my date!

  374.  #374Andrea on January 14, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Zia your post about your boyfriend changing his mind about having children:

    My little sister and her boyfriend have been together for over five years now. She comes from our huge family and of course had marriage and children in her plans from the getgo.
    He came from a small family, just one brother, and before he met my sister he’d been married to a woman who cheated on him.
    He didn’t want children. He didn’t want marriage.

    Five years… One morning he woke my sister up and he said, “I had a dream last night that you held our daughter up in your arms and she looked right into my face. I loved her instantly. I can’t wait to meet her.”

    Then he proposed to my sister and asked her if she’d like to start planning a family.

    Switch! Just like that. Of course, who knows what was going on behind the scenes. Maybe his financial situation lightened up, or changes in his own family, or who knows what… But one day, just plunk. He realized he wanted marriage and a family with my sister.

    She told me that she didn’t even have conversations with him about it. She just knew she loved him and in the five years they’d been together she finished her college degree, traveled to Europe, China, Sweden, climbed up the ladder in her career, ran marathons etc… (dated other men in the times that he pulled away until he asked her if she’d like to move in together)

    She loved him, had faith, and took ultra good care of herself. And one day, he just … swoosh… Wanted the whole package with her.

    Their wedding is in May.

  375.  #375Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 7:24 am

    Aww Andrea, that is such a heartwarming tale about your sister! I admire her patience and faith so very much.

  376.  #376Andrea on January 14, 2015 at 7:45 am

    I love this thing that’s happening inside of me because of RRguy.

    I feel so alive, so energized, so aware of my sensuality and so aware of my .. (power?? is it power??) and my femininity.

    I also feel very aware of my courage and my journey and of how I have been growing stronger and allowing myself to feel so much and to open up so much to the love the Universe has for me, that somehow, I’m aware of my lack of neediness when it comes to him. I’m aware of my own security.

    Admitting here on the boards just how alone I feel sometimes is also healing that lonely lovely little girl inside of me. Like she just needed a voice, needed to be heard, needed to be acknowledged and owned and loved. I feel solid with RRguy. I feel solid with out RRguy.

    There’s one certain glitch in our seeing each other: he has said he just wants to make me happy, he has said to me, “You’re my girl.” he has talked future planning with me…

    But he seems to be very fine with not telling any body else. He revealed to me that his buddy back home has given him the phone number of a friend of his, a female, that he should meet. His friends don’t like to see him alone. His friends are trying to hook him up and Haha.. isn’t that cute?

    And I feel (just inside of me) WAIT!! So you haven’t told your friends you’re kind of into someone right now. You haven’t mentioned anything to your sons, to your work mates…

    “Sure.” I say to myself. “It’s too soon to expect all of that.”

    But I know what I want. I know that I want dates, out in the open. I want a man who wants to claim me as the woman he’s dating, then the woman he wants to be committed to, then the woman he wants to eventually marry.. etc…

    Too soon right now with RRguy?? Yes. But he wants me to sneak up to his hotel room and spend the night with him. He wants me to come and pick him up and come over to my home and spend his time with me here when he’s in my town. And then he wants to be able to go back to his town, good and sexed up and taken care of, and go back to HIS life. Until he comes back to my town because of work.

    I want to say: Even though I feel wonderful with you. I feel amazing when I’m in your presence. I feel deeper and deeper connection with you; I also feel discarded, like a secret, like a sneak in this situation.

    I feel icky sneaking into your hotel room. (I’ve done it twice but never had sex with him there. It’s my workplace too. But he’s grabbed me up and kissed me and it feels so good when I’m in his arms.) But when I sneak out of his hotel and walk down the hall, even though we’ve not had sex I feel like a prostitute.

    I feel icky when I pick him and drive him back to my home. Even though making love to him is like heaven, and having him in my bed is like a dream, and hearing his whispers of affection for me is like salvation… (we’ve done that twice now)
    I feel trashy when he asks me to drop him off around the corner or in the next parking lot over if he sees his workmates outside the hotel.

    I haven’t said anything to him yet because everything is so new. All of this is so new. He’s gone back to his town now and I’m just sorting through all of my feelings with regards to him and regards to our situation.

    A part of me feels like the next time he comes back to my town, I don’t need to say anything to him, I don’t need to be explainy… but I just need to have my boundaries clear with in my own self.

    I’m NOT a dirty little secret to be hidden away from the public eye.
    I’m NOT something to be ashamed about or fearful about.
    I’m NOT some clandestine affair, some mistress, some other woman.

    This situation really triggers something within me and I feel icky about the sneakiness.
    Everything else feels wonderful. But there’s something about that “let’s keep this to ourselves” type attitude that just triggers something deep deep with in me.

    Maybe I need to get in touch with “prostitute self” and ask her what’s going on…….

    ps. I’m loving loving loving right now the fact that RRguy goes away. It gives me so much space and time to process all of this. And when he comes back it’s like RESET! It’s all new again. We get a chance to start all over.

  377.  #377Lovergirl on January 14, 2015 at 8:13 am

    @ 300 Veronica-

    Oh my goodness! I know you are nervous and scared and I understand those feelings, but I also feel excited for you! As a mom of 5, I know that the minute that baby is born you will fall in love and everything will fall in place. I am confident in that. Happens every time. 😉

    I had a surprise pregnancy recently, that ended in miscarriage. It was scary because HE was such a mess of emotions that I was afraid. I was afraid of his resentment. I took comfort in the fact that I knew things would change when he met his little one face to face. That never happened for us, but I hope you can take comfort in that too. (((hugs))) When it was all over, he showed me his REAL feelings, and said thank you for being so positive all along, that it had been a real encouragement even though he didn’t show it.

  378.  #378Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Andrea, what you’ve written is setting off major alarm bells in my head.

    This to me sounds like listening to your gut:
    “I’m NOT a dirty little secret to be hidden away from the public eye.
    I’m NOT something to be ashamed about or fearful about.
    I’m NOT some clandestine affair, some mistress, some other woman.”

    And this sounds like trying to rationalize your gut instinct away:
    “Sure.” I say to myself. “It’s too soon to expect all of that.”

    You and I pace our relationships a little differently so I want to be careful not to jump over any of your boundaries here. I don’t want you to second-guess yourself because of my opinions. Mostly I just want to encourage you to listen to your intuition, because that is your most secure Goddess self talking to you, the direct path from your heart to your mind.

    And then a little more…Personally, I’d be MAJORLY turned off if a man I was dating mentioned anything about another potential girlfriend or dating situation in front of me. Yes it’s assumed before exclusivity that you might both be dating other people…but to me it’s crossing the line to TALK about it, it feels like a friendship with benefits to me and not relationship. If a man said that to me, even in passing, I’d probably say something like, “I don’t feel comfortable hearing about this. I feel icky and turned off. I’m not looking for friends with benefits and I don’t want to pressure you. For now I would feel best if you took me home.” And then I’d end the date.

    He might just be testing your boundaries. But I totally agree with everything you’ve said about wanting a relationship to be out in the open, to be on public display. I would EXPECT my man to be really excited about me and wanting to show me off to everyone! Isn’t that part of being cherished?

  379.  #379Lovergirl on January 14, 2015 at 8:24 am

    I’m kind of a mess of emotions. Things have been difficult the past couple of days with the guy I am into. We got into a long argument and I was left emotionally exhausted. He apologized and it seemed like everything was better, but then the next day he blew up at me over something really small and seemingly not that important. Again, he apologized and tried to call but I just didn’t have it in me to answer the phone.

    I’m not sure what is going on with us. I finally wrote him a long email, full of feeling messages. I sent it at 3 am. When I read it back to myself, all the words I used seem to really be WANTING to say “please love me, comfort me, take care of me, and make this all better”. I guess now I sit back and wait to see if that happens, or if it has the opposite effect.

  380.  #380Indigo on January 14, 2015 at 8:31 am


    I agree with Labbit and don’t want you to minimize in any way the things you want from a relationship for this man, or because you think it’s “too soon”.

    I think this is great:

    “A part of me feels like the next time he comes back to my town, I don’t need to say anything to him, I don’t need to be explainy… but I just need to have my boundaries clear with in my own self.

    I’m NOT a dirty little secret to be hidden away from the public eye.
    I’m NOT something to be ashamed about or fearful about.
    I’m NOT some clandestine affair, some mistress, some other woman.”

    This situation would feel uncomfortable to me too, and I would start to look for ways of honouring myself. A feeling message, a few boundaries about what you will and will not do, would be a great place to start (I’m thinking here about my own situation with D too, because this is exactly what I have started doing).

    I’m also thinking, your situation is a great case for CDing! Such a powerful reminder to stay open to others and not to get hung up on one guy until we get the relationship we want.


  381.  #381Indigo on January 14, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Lovergirl 372,

    “I’m not sure what is going on with us. I finally wrote him a long email, full of feeling messages. I sent it at 3 am. When I read it back to myself, all the words I used seem to really be WANTING to say “please love me, comfort me, take care of me, and make this all better”. I guess now I sit back and wait to see if that happens, or if it has the opposite effect.”

    Oh my goodness, I was in that situation for YEARS with D, he would blow up at me over something inconsequential, and I’d find myself sending pleading emails asking for love etc. Until I FINALLY realized that leaning back is the way to go. Just lean back, even if you think things are messy and broken and you need to say something, just try to find it within yourself to lean back, and go and focus on other things, preferably something which makes you feel good or is taking good care of you.

    I just realized after years of not knowing what the frik was going on, that a lot of this conflict energy comes from not allowing the man to chase us and give to us and want us because of unconsciously chasing him and loving him too much. I’ve finally realized how easy and good it can all feel 🙂

  382.  #382Tee on January 14, 2015 at 8:43 am

    #365, hey Radlove 🙂

    I feel special knowing that you’ve checked in on me, thank you! Maybe a few posts went through because I wasn’t whining about myself? Lol not sure

    I do enjoy being on this board. It feels cozy and warm. I love how expressive everyone is even if they’re new. Makes me feel like I’m light years behind. Emotionally primitive, yet I have faith. I’m learning alot.

    Beginning to be able to Feel the difference within me between boy energy and girl energy as opposed to thinking that I Know the difference.

    I’ve been feeling a little sad again, but this time I believe it’s because I’m back in my head trying to fix this or figure out that.

    When I’m just doing what Feels good, I don’t have this problem lol

  383.  #383Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 8:43 am

    Indigo… #374
    THIS makes so much since to me right now!!!

    “a lot of HIS conflict energy comes from
    NOT allowing the man to CHASE US
    and GIVE to US and
    because of US unconsciously
    chasing HIM and
    loving HIM too much.”

  384.  #384Mistea1 on January 14, 2015 at 8:46 am


    Hugs and congratulations to you. Do you have some family you can rely on? Children are our greatest teachers. You are blessed to learn in this way.

  385.  #385Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Also, I have noticed,
    men act agitated and contentious
    when I am holding my boundaries
    but being open and loving…

    It’s like training a horse (not that men are like training anything)…
    ME, Holding the reins steady,
    but when The HORSE wants to move to one side
    or the other (not the way ~I~ want to go)…
    The horse bumps into his own bit!

  386.  #386Mistea1 on January 14, 2015 at 8:54 am


    My experience has been that it’s fun for just a little bit until you two can get your couples thoughts together.

    However, if he doesn’t make moves after the declaration to show you off to friends and family I would be suspicious of his motives. The ones I had that tried that had other irons in the fire so to speak. All of them.

  387.  #387Indigo on January 14, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Azure Blu 376,

    Yes! I didn’t even know why I was doing it. I don’t love him more than myself, I never have, so what on earth was making me act like this needy, pleading creature desperate for love? I don’t know, but I love her all the same, and the reverse way round feels SO much better, and I might add, a lot more peaceful.

  388.  #388Tee on January 14, 2015 at 8:58 am

    #383, Indigo! That is/was soooooo me. I feel grateful that you’ve posted that. I gave Mr. Man the world. Bought him things, paid for things, chased him, etc. Is he over loved? Yes. It’s made him (imo) selfish,expectant and ungrateful. It’s made me tired, angry, bitter and resentful. Very resentful.

    I’ve leaned back but I believe it’s been out of fear of opening my mouth and unleashing whatever verbal demon I’ve been holding back. I feel frozen so I say nothing, which coincidentally causes him to seek me out even more. I’m trying to find my way out or rather…find my way in????

  389.  #389Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 9:25 am

    ((((Tee #381))))

  390.  #390Andrea on January 14, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Woah! Wow!! Oh.. I feel GOOD AND HEARD AND VALIDATED!! Thank you so much Labbit, Indigo, Mistea.. yes, I feel like this board is a tree trunk, solid grounding to lean on and then branch out. Whew!

    Yes alarm bells going off and yet, I feel this underlying joy. I love your response Labbitt, to his talking about dating other women. My response to him was exactly: “I feel so slimy right now to hear you talk about seeing other women. I’m going to hang up the phone now.”

    Then he called me back. ( he was at the hotel at the time) and asked me: “Baby Please come here and let me hold you and let me talk to you face to face. Talking to you over the phone; I can’t see your facial expressions, I can’t show you mine.”

    Then he told me, “What you don’t understand is that I have this trust… it’s kind of funny… but you and I met kind of accidentally, kind of with out trying. We bumped into each other because the Universe brought us together and that makes me think that there’s something to this. And I can’t give my emotional affection to more than one woman at a time. I just don’t feel about anybody else, the way I feel about you.”

    Now that’s what he said to me. So then I never did ask him why he brought up the whole thing about his friends trying to hook him up with other people. He had been trying to make some point, but I never got it at the time.

    Anyway, yes, I feel like I want him to be excited to let people know that he’s seeing me.

    He told me one thing though that makes me ponder…. He told me that he feels like a bum when he’s here in my city. He feels chained to the hotel without his cars, without his house, without his group and his stuff, his identity. He said he feels like he’s without his mojo when he’s here. And he gets insecure about that.

    He shows me pictures of his home, the new kitchen he’s having remodeled, his garage with the cars.. etc… It’s like he needs me to know that him in my town is not all he has to offer me.

    Anyway…. yes ugh ugh ugh… overthinking ME over analyzing..
    Yes CD’ing is in order. Yes, energy back on to me. : )

    I am going to work out now because that makes me feel ALL about ME.

    Hey everyone, another thing is: I have lost 16 lbs since December 1st when I started my new healthy way of life. 16 lbs! I’m feeling so good about me right now.

  391.  #391Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 9:31 am

    I imagine it could be rather Frightening
    To feel Allll that over extended and uncontained energy
    Coming towards me!! (if i was the man)
    Allll that giving
    Allll that loving
    Allll that Freedom eating, Crazy!!
    I run too, when I feel that from a man!

  392.  #392Gemini Goddess on January 14, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Hi Andrea-

    Serious triggers, and visceral reaction. I feel an absolute sickness in the pit of my stomach, tight throat, cold numb limbs. I had a situation that has similarities to the things you describe, which is now THE major source of my NVs.

    Years ago, I met a man in Sicily, Italy, where I lived at the time. He was passing through for business. We had an absolute whirlwind romance. As far a I knew we were both “available” for a relationship. Over the next couple months, we both moved back to the US (separately, and per previous plans), and just a road trip away from each other! SO meant to be! We kept in lusty, amorous, future-talking contact during the brief time apart. I was ALL in. We picked up immediately, once in the US. We visited in my town and took romantic trips to D.C…. even meeting his whole family at one point, (I still have the photos. I should burn them), and future talking the whole time. I went to visit him in his town once, maybe twice, but we seemed to go “site seeing” away from his immediate home. It felt…a bit… off, but I let it go of course. My goodness, I’d met his family after all.

    At a certain point he told me an ex-girlfriend was pregnant, that it was completely over with her and had been, but she was still claiming it was his child even though that was chronologically impossible. He reassured me WE were meant to be…bla, bla, bla… and continued to future talk. My bad for not sniffing that one out a mile away, my current more cynical self surely would (I know, unzipper my heart…I’m trying), but you want to believe, and you want to support someone you love through tough times, and in my mind (back then) it was plausible, so I accepted it, being his F-ing cheerleader the whole time. I was 1000% emotionally invested.

    One day I was waiting for him to arrive at my house. He never showed up. I just kept waiting and worrying. No answer to my calls… until the next day. Turns out it had not been remotely over with her. He didn’t show up at my house because he had been in the delivery room with her and they’d decided to get MARRIED. I wish the memory did not still make me SICK. I have been walking unconsciously through relationships ever since, even (and especially) my marriage.

    My current situation with D, and our whirlwind romance, all the future talking, and his break-up with a long time girlfriend about 9 months before we met has been the universe forcing this all to the surface for me. ouch.

    Please be careful. Hugs and so much love to you.

  393.  #393Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Loveto dance…
    I just wrote a post about your dancing and it went to moderation… not sure why?

  394.  #394Gemini Goddess on January 14, 2015 at 10:02 am

    I’m feeling a bit ashamed of all the bile that came out above. I’ve felt like this has been surfacing for awhile now but couldn’t put my finger on it.

  395.  #395Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 10:04 am

    thank you for sharing this story…
    I feel sad you had to go through such a heart wrenching love affair!

    I am hoping this doesn’t feel like a lecture
    For me I find reading about other Sirens situations
    VERY helpful… either it fits for me or it doesn’t

    I too might add…
    I know we’re supposed to keep our hearts open…
    but also when we find our boundaries…
    and hold them…
    We find out many things about the man…

    I dated a guy for 2 ago years, just Before RR, (proclaimed his love, spent tons of time together, met some of his friends) and NEVER met his family or kids…
    come to find out he had just gotten a divorce when I met him (he lied and said it had been 3 years)
    he had lied and cheated on me and FINALLY admitted he needed time to date others since he had been married for 35 yrs…
    I would have found this out much sooner
    IF i had MET his family!!!

    Same thing is going on with Spirit…
    6 months now…
    He’s met my friends and my son,
    He’s been to my house many times…
    I’ve NOT met many of his friends
    or his daughter
    and NEVER been to his house…
    So for the past month… as many times as he asks
    I just say “I feel unbalanced for you to come to my house. I want a relationship where I am invited over to the man’s house also”

    Andrea, NOT that this is what is going on with RRguy.
    BUT your gut is talking to you…
    I know you are listening…

  396.  #396Gemini Goddess on January 14, 2015 at 10:15 am

    (Azure Blu)

    Thank you for sharing your stories, too. Do you think that attracting “available on the outside, but not on the inside” men means that that’s what we are? I worry that continuing to be so hurt by this is attracting more of the same. I’m trying to pour love on it, rather than dread and sometimes not sure where to begin.

  397.  #397Dominique on January 14, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Yvette – 358 – How about experimenting, seeing how you feel in each scenario. There isn’t a right or wrong way here. Either way, imagine your heart soft, open, receptive. 🙂


  398.  #398Femininewoman on January 14, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Andrea I just read your long post and it reads so like a story to me. Do you really know what “feel like a prostitute” really feels like?

    Sounds to me like you telling yourself some stories around the hotel issue making it similar to other things you might have heard which are not associated with your personal experiences.

  399.  #399Lovetodance on January 14, 2015 at 10:52 am

    Sophie. Beautiful kind siren

    You sound like an ambassador to me. Someone who brings out the best in others someone who knows about joy down to the very finest hair on her body

    Yes. Being that loving and sweet is soooo needed in this world and learning the art form , the mix with firmness And graciousness of not being taken advantage of or being a doormat. Wow it’s a huge muscle to develop …. I have confidence in you and myself that it is doable , necessary and a very healthy part of wholeness
    This as you might suspect is /has been a challenge for me. My natural inclination is softness and trust. Not everyone respects or understands that. So not hardening which is something I know how to also. Is the art.

    I always love your updates.

  400.  #400Lovetodance on January 14, 2015 at 10:56 am

    Gemini goddess.

    Thank you for sharing your story.
    We heal thro expressing our stories. Thank you
    The only way around is thru ….
    And you are letting something very necessary to come out and up into the light

    Good job strong siren!

  401.  #401Lovetodance on January 14, 2015 at 11:02 am

    Beautiful alluring siren

    You deserve the best and I know you will get it
    Because you have made so much conscious. And have clarified and strengthened so much. There is no way of back tracking now because its not necessary.
    I know you have this.
    I love what the collective sirens have said
    And I love your process around this as things unfold here with your guy
    Boy. Is he lucky to have met you!

  402.  #402Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 11:10 am

    383 Andrea — I love your response! I think you handled it perfectly…and I like what RRGuy said in return too. It sounds like you are staying open but also keeping your heart open to intuition and trusting yourself, and that’s really all you can do. I would rather give my heart fully to myself and feel the joys and lows and make a million mistakes than keep it closed off and ‘safe’, but alone and miserable.

    Men show you who they are in time. I think you are wise to give pause, but also very wise to allow this man to pursue you and have fun with it!

  403.  #403Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 11:17 am

    374 Indigo — Ohhhhh, I love this! I admit I am struggling a bit right now…my confidence is on the wane…all this leaning back doesn’t yet feel natural to me…there are lots of empty spaces in the times when I’d normally lean forward. TenderCD does come around, he always does, and our relationship is going so wonderfully right now…and yet I STILL find myself wanting more. More what?!? I don’t even understand the urge myself.

    I feel somewhat twisted up into knots. It takes me so much focus and energy to lean back right now that I feel I’m not always fully there with him. On our last date yesterday there were a couple of times that he got really playful and cute with me and I wasn’t fully there to enjoy it…I didn’t realize until the end of our date when we each had to go back to work and we had one of those deep eye-locking moments we’ve had so many of lately (which I love so very much, intense as they are!). Later on yesterday evening when we were talking by phone TenderCD shared that he was going to offer me a ride back to work, but I seemed to be in my head so he decided to let me go on my own. That made me feel a little sad, though I was happy he felt comfortable in sharing it.

    I’m just trying to find a balance for myself right now because the urge to chase him is so strong and I don’t know why. He is giving to me in every way possible. It makes me question our entire relationship a bit. Is he enough for me? Will ANY MAN be enough for me? I feel off-balance, off-center and a little prickly right now. I am trying to feed my own needs right now. I am not sure how I’m doing.

  404.  #404Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:29 am

    (((Labbit #397))))
    Hugggsss… oh warm, lovely YOU!!

    So sweet and vulnerable you are here with us…

    We can only push ourselves so much…
    Is it the pushing out of your emotional intimacy boundaries that wants to protect you…???
    by getting prickly, to close off your heart some..??
    so you can take a minute and absorb this amount…
    so you can move forward into MORE??

  405.  #405Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:31 am

    lovetodance #393
    LOVE THIS!!!
    you are soooo right on for me here!!!

  406.  #406Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:35 am

    Ohhh… soo interesting to hear about your
    lifelong dancing… hence your name here ;->

    I too have been very active alll my life..
    But I found I needed to up my workouts
    because of my age…
    and a more sedentary lifestyle,
    working in front of the computer for hours
    More intense strength training
    has helped me maintain my favorite weight
    and stay agile,
    build my b*ne density,
    muscle tone
    and keep my interest… :-}
    Lots of great 10min- 1hour wrkouts on Youtube also
    For those who don’t like going (or can’t afford) to the gym!

  407.  #407Liquid Light on January 14, 2015 at 11:37 am

    I don’t like HIM!

    I don’t like his personality
    I don’t like the way he looks
    I don’t like his age
    I don’t like where he lives
    I don’t like his voice
    I don’t like that he’s 20 pounds heavier than in his profile pics
    I don’t like the way he eats
    I don’t like that he didn’t remember anything I told him
    I don’t like that he seems sleazy
    I don’t like that he keeps contacting me
    I don’t like the way he drives
    I don’t like his work
    I don’t like being around him
    I don’t like….

    the list could go on and on

    and I don’t have to have a reason for any of it

    I wish he would just leave me alone

    OK, end of rant. Sorry. Sigh.

  408.  #408Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:42 am

    lovetodance… I’ve tried 3 times to make a post to you,,,
    even changed the words still not going?

    I talked about how cool that you have loved to dance all your life.. and that you have taught and danced professionally!!!
    I said other things but we’ll see if this part goes thru

  409.  #409Dominique on January 14, 2015 at 11:42 am

    Labbit – 396 – Instead of feeling so concerned about your leaning back, maybe try BEING in the moment, moment by moment. Not always easy, for our minds tend to want to rush to the next moment or even next week or next year, yet it’s possible.

    And what I have found to be one of the most effective way is to consciously SLOW yourself down, your movements. Notice yourself, your surroundings, maybe sink into the sensations these things/people might arouse. The thoughts tend to slow down, as you encourage your body to.

    Also keep checking in with your body. How is she feeling? Is she tense somewhere, holding? Can you try sending love to those places? Maybe place your hand wherever you feel tight, and imagine love pouring from your hand into you. Imagine the tightness easing to allow this love.

    Love to you.


  410.  #410Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:48 am

    GG #390
    THAT could be it exactly…
    my mirror…
    at least this time I realized how it felt to not be invited to his house more quickly…

    I learned to share my feelings more…
    which is huge!!

    Yes, MY availability… that is a question…
    I am trying to EXPAND my
    Emotional intimacy Muscles MORE!!!

  411.  #411Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:51 am

    (((Dominique…. 404)))
    Ahhhh… this sounds so soft, loving and doable!!
    Thank you!

  412.  #412Azure Blu on January 14, 2015 at 11:53 am

    (((LL #404)))


  413.  #413Labbit on January 14, 2015 at 11:58 am

    397 Azure Blu — What you say rings accurate in my heart. I hope this is it, that I am on my way to opening my heart so much more. Thank you beautiful Siren. 🙂

    401 Dominique — Ahhh, OK. Yes, this feels right too. Being in the moment…it’s like you’ve read my mind because YES I keep wanting to rush into the future (or sometimes dip in the past where I am still angry at myself for how prior relationships turned out, weird as that is).

    My body is so tense right now. I feel it. My shoulders keep hunching up and they’re very sore, my entire back bending over my heart as if to protect her. And I’m totally locked up in my stomach and lower down, I keep breathing into myself to loosen up. My Pilates instructor demonstrated how I looked to her on Monday with her own body and I started laughing because it was so ridiculous! My jaw is also very tense right now and I keep noticing my arms are crossed even when I think I am relaxed.

    I also…well I feel silly telling this but here it is. I’ve had a few recurring dreams lately, ones I’ve had since I was about 12 or so. The latest one to resurface…I get kidnapped by a man. When I was 12 in the dream he was older than me, now as I myself am older he’s never changed age. It’s been the same man every time I have the dream. He kidnaps me, ties me up with thorny ropes in a cold grey room. I can’t move…everytime I try the thorns cut into me and I bleed and yelp out in pain. And weirdly, I can tell this man who kidnapped me LOVES me, and I feel attracted to him but also very angry at him for hurting me. No one is coming to save me…it’s up to me to escape…I can’t move.

    The last two times this dream has started recurring again is when I’m starting to get really close to a man. And also, when I’m getting a lot of male attention which has been happening recently. Vulnerability scares the crap out of me. I want to be open and vulnerable but I also feel very scared.

    I just…you know how sometimes here we talk about how intense it is for a man when you’re focused on him and he can FEEL it and it feels like too much to him? I feel like that’s what’s happening for me. At any moment I can feel TenderCD’s love for me, and sometimes I’m not even trying to feel it and it’s like a waterfall on my head that turns into a deluge and I feel like I’m drowning! Like it’s almost too much for me. And then I feel bad for feeling that way, isn’t this what I’ve always wanted? I feel wrong for him loving me! Angry too, I don’t even get why. I love him, I want to be with him but there are all these feelings coming up that I don’t understand. I guess I am really frustrated with myself right now.

    Dominique, I am ready for some more coaching. 🙂 I have been thinking about it the last few days and know I want to. As soon as I get paid again at work I’ll be contacting you to set it up.

  414.  #414Gemini Goddess on January 14, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    LovetoDance 393
    Thank you so much. Your words feel so soothing, so reassuring to me.

    ((Azure Blue))

  415.  #415Dominique on January 14, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Labbit – I SO understand all you’re feeling and going through. Mine has been a life long journey to ease all the tension and holding in my body from the physical and emotional traumas. Awareness is key.

    I very much look forward to working with you again. I love our connection. 🙂


  416.  #416Lovergirl on January 14, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    Indigo #374- Thank you so much for your post and the reminder to lean back. Sometimes I think I am leaning back, in the moment, but when I take a critical look at my behavior after the fact, I realize I really wasn’t. I also get confused sometimes whether I should lean back or just let loose with all of my emotions.

    Last night, he had called me 3 times and texted a couple (one was an apology) and I hadn’t responded because I felt numb and shut down. It wasn’t until 3 am that I finally gave voice to all my feelings, in email, and hit that send button.

    I don’t know whether I should have or not. I tried to avoid anything that would be considered “blaming” but I worry that he might feel that anyhow. I hope the things I wrote were not based on an “agenda”. I felt like I was just expressing my feelings.

    Now, I’m feeling kind of nervous and anxious to hear his response, but scared at the same time. What if it’s something I don’t want to hear? What if I scared him off with all my emoting?

    He finally texted me back, at like 2 pm. He said he read my email and needs time to think about what I said. Tick-tock…lol I said I appreciated him acknowledging me and that I understand its a lot to digest.

    I KNOW I need to let go and not try to control the outcome. What I wrote was true to my feelings at the moment and I want to be real and vulnerable, even if I end up getting hurt,

  417.  #417redbutterfly on January 14, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    I am wondering if I am being overly dramatic. My car wouldn’t start on Monday due to the cold. That evening the widower came over and tried to jump it (the car, not me) with a battery pack. It wouldn’t jump and he kind of said “hmmm” and not much else. He said “We can wait until it warms up a little and try again.” Then after we watched a movie, he went home.

    The next day I decided to take matters into my own hands. I called 2 of my guys friends after work and one of them came over and tried to jump my car the normal way. He said “your battery is shot” and then he towed me over to the shop. He waited for me to get done and gave me a ride home. Meanwhile, the whole time I am dealing with this, the widower is at a kayak club board meeting that is more a social thing than anything else. After the board meeting he came over at around 8 and I was in a pissy mood. Actually I told him not to even come over because I was crabby but he did anyway. We were talking about the week (I don’t like confrontation so I tried not to tell him I was upset) and he said that he wouldn’t be able to go out on Thursday night with me and a friend for a drink because he had to do some work that night. I said that is fine. He then said “well, I guess I could blow off work and come with you.” I looked at him like he had sprouted wings (or horns.) How do you blow off work for a drink but can’t manage to help your girlfriend get her car to the shop?

    We have been dating exclusively for over 2 years, we have a date set for me to move in with him (after my daughter graduates this spring) and we talk about marriage constantly. He has even had me go pick out a ring recently. I have never claimed to be this super strong independent woman who doesn’t want help with anything, especially vehicles since I know nothing about them. Granted, he doesn’t know much about them either.

    I started to tell him some of this stuff and he said “Well, you won’t let me buy you a new car so …” I said fine, lets buy a new car and he said “I can’t afford the car payment!” Grrr! Then don’t offer!!

    I am just afraid that maybe I found a huge flaw in him. Will he be different once we live together or will I deal with a crisis by myself? Or am I just being a diva who wants some help? My daughter said to me that she noticed he wasn’t very helpful when big problems hit. For example, we had a shooting a block down the road a couple of weeks ago and the murderers were on the run. I was scared! I called the widower, he said you will be fine just go to bed. Didn’t come over, didn’t get worked up. My daughter brought that up as an example. They caught the guys about 4 blocks away after 5 hours. It was