Are All Men Out There Goons?

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I just got this from Myralisa, and starting laughing out loud…and really – this is a serious question I’ll briefly answer at the end…

Subject: Report on my success


I purchased the Modern Siren and Have the Relationship You Want materials and followed them faithfully, watching multiple times, circular dating, trying new things and this is what I received:

Men who fall in love at first sight frequently and way too fast for comfort (like the first conversation)

Men who think they have to pretend to be in love in order to score fast

Men who love cartoons a little too much

Men who are still growing up

Men who need some cheese to go along with all of that whining they do

Men who are unable to pay for dates

Men who have no desire or capacity to provide for the woman who is ultimately their match

Men who seriously believe that I came from their rib

Men who seriously need a woman to submit to them to help them feel like a man (he should have that mastered)

Men who make love like a mindless hungry puppy dog swallows his dinner; without really tasting it at all and who have no capacity or desire for more

Men who are into autoerotic asphyxiation (I’m get all choked up when I think of this one)

Men who love broken English

Men who have, oh let’s say, a lost limb, or other significant disorder and who purposefully don’t disclose this information for fear that they won’t be accepted if someone knew the real person

Men who have OCD, bipolar disorder, or another psychological disorder that is untreated and unresolved

Men who don’t think they are paranoid about the people who really are out to get them

Men who are in a sex offender database

Men who have a criminal past in their life of any significance

Men whose kids hate them

Men who are the “funny” uncle (and I don’t mean he tells good jokes)

Men who have alcoholism or a drug addiction

Men who stretch the truth

Men who are are serial online daters

Men who sharp shoot rabbits in the forehead while hunting

Men who eat the rabbits

Men who long to have me over to eat the rabbits

Men who make me wonder whether they see me as a big rabbit

I just thought I would share because dating these creeps has simply worn me out! Any advice?


My Answer:

You’re quite brilliant and clever…and

The question is not – why are all these unacceptable men out there – and not even “why am I attracting them” – but

“Why am I EXCLUSIVELY attracting them?

Are you absolutely certain you’re not carrying the results of your survey/database around with you as a kind of “expectation”/

If you are right, and there are no acceptable men out there, then there’s nothing I can do for you or anyone, and I know from all the evidence to the contrary that that’s not true….so –what’s our next step here?

Look – I know you wouldn’t be here doing this work if you were the woman who had all kinds of amazing men all over them at all times.

So that’s what we have in common here…and that’s why it seems to be “the way it is…”

But it’s not.

It’s just your experience so far – and that changes!

I KNOW it changes.

very one of my female relationship coach interviewees and friends has not only seen what seems to be an unbelievable turnaround in their clients’ love lives – they’ve seen it in their own love lives.

Nearly every one of us relationship coaches has a sorry story to tell of being “broken” and experiencing nothing but pain in love – UNTIL – everything changed and we met our husbands.

And none of these husbands were magical. Or dashing. Or what we thought they’d be.  Because by the time we met them WE were different.

We were more honest. We had a more loving attitude toward ourselves.  We somehow believed we deserved better than what we were used to, even though we had no idea what that would look like.

It’ll happen for you to…and if you can turn every one of these hysterical male stereotypes around (and, yes, I know you’ve actually met them all) into…the pleasant guy I hardly noticed because his nose was stuck in his lap top… The quiet guy who laughed at my feeble joke… The okay-looking guy who picked up my book off the floor and turned out to have lovely teeth….and on and on….you’ll move much faster.

Really – believing it can happen is most of the way there

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on June 20, 2011 at 6:58 am

    I guess they are not.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on June 20, 2011 at 7:02 am

    I do still believe

  3.  #3Ella on June 20, 2011 at 8:24 am

    Ello Sirens,

    I’m having a funny old time of it at the moment.

    My feelings have been so changeable, ranging from super happy and positive one minute to sad and pining the next, to kinda destitute (not sure if that is the right word??) today.

    Feeling kinda grey/low energy today.

    Realised a bi more over he weekend what a total mug I am making myself over pubman and got in touch with my anger, which felt good/angry, and much better than pining.

    I have no been too bad with pining really, just the odd moments here and there, and more frequently recently.

    I read Rori’s post called Horrible, nasty toxic man and you still love him, or something like that… and I was like ‘oh, that is me! ‘ Hmmm

    So I am still working to get my energy out of there.

    I really want/intend to be in a place where when I see him in the pub, I can see him, and then take my focus off him and back onto enjoying what I am doing at the time, or who IS talking to me at the time, rather than my energy going out towards him by wondering what he is doing and when he will next approach.

    I have been doing this successfully sometimes and not others. And of course it feels harder when he does appraoch me.

    I’d like it that I can be at a place that when he does approach me I am polite, even warm, however I don’t want anymore intereactions with him about this pretend relationship we allegedly have.

    So I need to completely re-focus my attention in the moment

    This is the BIGGEST challenge for me right now. And I am going to continue working with it.

    I really want to do it and still feel nervous in case I can’t.

    I want to feel some fire in my belly and steel in my gut that will make me do it.

    I don’t want to interact with him anymore about romantic stuff unless he is single and available.

    Which right now he is NOT!

    And I no longer want to react to words… but the situation as it is in any given moment. Because his words don’t mean anything atm.

    And I want to be open to being approached by other guys.

    And I really want to make this about me, and it is. And what I have been realising lately is that it is all so easy to slide back into making it about him…

    Ie: I have to wacth myself or I find myself thinking about how my actions will affect him… but really and truly I am doing this for ME, because I want the goo stuff, and an amazing relationship with a man who loves me and wants me and is available for me, and is CRAZY about me and will DO anything for me.

    And that is why I am doing this.

    And so want I have to get with is that it simply doesn’t matter how he reacts… and I am starting to not care about that, although sometimes I do still care.

    And then there is when I am not with him… still need to get my energy away from him… and this involves not thinking about him, gently steering my mind onto other things instead.

    Not checking his FB page, which is another habit I have fallen into recently.

    And not talking about him with mutual friends, and one in particular who was encouraging us to get together (she meant well).

    Urghh, can’t believe I am back here AGAIN. It was only a few months ago that I was doing all this with toxic ex!


    Oh well, I suppose I am getting to it much quicker than I used to.

    Just feels like such a backward step after I thought I had broken my toxic man habit with my ex, who was going to marry me, and then that all went to pot and its as though that threw me a few miles back straight into the midst of my toxic men issue.

    I think there is a part of me that feels like ‘well F8ck it what is the point, I chose a decent, what I thought was non toxic man and it still all broke down so why even bother! Better the devil you know.’

    I just feel so broken and damaged when I think about that… my NVs say ‘there you go, you had a proper, decent, non toxic guy and you still couldn’t do it!! What is wrong with you! No non toxic man will ever want you’

    And that is there inside me.

    I don’t know how to argue with that voice. It feels true, esp as he in now engaged to the woman he met after me.

    And it just hurt so much more bc I let my guard down. I trusted him bc I didn’t think he would hurt me or let me down.

    F8ck I feel SO angry at him… and at me and at that whole situation.

    I finally relaxed… and then it felt like my soul was smashed to smithereens when the love disappeared.

    And I felt so lost, like ‘how can I have got it so wrong’ and I lost trust in my judgement.

    At least with toxic men I know what I get, and how to handle them. And when they let me down ok it sucks… but hey I expected that. I never really fully trusted them anyway.

    I appreciate how negative this all sounds and really I think these are the underlying beliefs and demons that are keeping me stuck sometimes.

    Although I suppose they are losing their grip as somehow, despite everything I seem to be babystepping forward.

    Making progress.

    At least I hope I am, I really do.

    I feel as though I am, although it seems slow and gradual sometimes (and faster other times).

    Anyway I am waffling now… just opening he window 😉

    But yes anyway I would like to make some room for new men in my life, and part of that involves closing down Pubguy, at least for now… cus he has nothing to offer me.

    And he lies and he cheats and really, why would I want that?

  4.  #4Senior Lady Vibe on June 20, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Hello, world. Summer solstice, here I come. I feel the power… I am thankful.


  5.  #5Senior Lady Vibe on June 20, 2011 at 8:41 am

    We do not attract them because they are creepy. They are attracted to us because we are fabulous. It’s our job whether or not we accept their attention.

    P.S. Myralisa, the poster, didn’t have to invent the descriptions. These guys are out there. And they are “attracted” to anybody and everyone. You don’t have to do a thing… except run away.

    And don’t feel sorry for yourself, thinking only the worse ones are attracted to you. Nuh-uh. There are worse guys out there than what you’ve encountered. These not-so-great guys make it difficult for the good guys too.


  6.  #6Femininewoman on June 20, 2011 at 9:11 am

    What To Say When He Leaves You Speechless
    From: Rori Raye

    Here are some tips about how to get started telling a man the total truth of exactly how you feel — no matter how afraid you are:

    1. Let Yourself Shake

    Instead of trying to hold yourself in and be all poised and put together, just let your body sort of fall apart!

    And even more — let HIM see you shake!

    I know this sounds really scary. I know it seems like the opposite of what you’re “supposed” to do. And the first few times you try it, you’re going to feel shaky.

    But the absolutely most charming, disarming, and confident thing you can do when you don’t know what to do is to just let yourself be. When a man sees you really feeling your emotions, he becomes absolutely mesmerized by you because the feminine feeling self is so foreign to him in the first place.

    2. Put Your Hand On Your Stomach

    Allow your tummy to relax against your hand — lean into it, allow your hand to comfort you and soften the stiffness.

    I know we’re all so used to holding in our tummies, and trying to stand up tall and look slender and fit, but right now what you want to do is let it go.

    And I know that what you want to do when you feel the onslaught of an attack or an assault from a man — even if it’s not on purpose, and even if it’s just something negligent that he’s not doing — is to attack him back or to run.

    And if you can’t attack him because it’s just not in your nature, and you don’t want to run – because you want to “discuss things” and have a happy ending to this situation – what can happen is we just “freeze” in place.

    That means we go numb. We go blank. Can’t feel a thing. We don’t know what we’re doing.

    And this is okay, too!

    By putting your hand on your stomach, you’re telling yourself that you’re okay. You’re giving yourself some love and comfort and telling yourself that however you’re feeling right now is okay. You’re also giving yourself a much-needed “pause” to collect yourself and speak from a more authentic place.

    3. Say “Okay.”

    “Okay” means you’re listening. It means you are not going to expend precious energy to fight with him. “Okay” means you are taking care of yourself by turning that attention back on to you.

    What’s even better is if you’re always prepared with a good “script” for any situation so that you don’t get caught off guard and say something that might put more distance between you and him.

    You can start doing this now by thinking about a moment when your man did or said or didn’t do or didn’t say something, and it felt really upsetting to you.

    Imagine that situation and write down some ideas.

    Great ideas would be “I feel upset,” or “I don’t know what to say,” or “You’re right,” or “That feels bad.”

    Even better, you’ll find everything you need to say to a man in my new Love Scripts program. If he’s doing something that’s really upsetting you, you’ll find the answer in the program. If you’ve been stuffing down your feelings for a long time and don’t know how to ask them for what you really want, you’ll find it in Love Scripts.


    Love Scripts teaches you a simple method for speaking with a man that REALLY works — it shows you how to talk with him so that he’ll WANT to listen to you and please you. What’s more, you’ll be using YOUR words for your particular situation so that you never sound fake or inauthentic. On the contrary, Love Scripts lets you finally say what you feel in a way that a man can really understand and respond to.

    You’ll find solutions for dating in the Love Scripts For Dating program — everything from how to deal with e-mails and text messages to how to deal with requests for exclusivity and physical intimacy.

    And in Love Scripts For Relationships — if you’ve been suffering for a long time and just don’t know how to bring up a very delicate subject — you’ll find the words. Love Scripts will teach you how to write your own script no matter what’s going on.

    You’ll want to check it out right here (like all my programs, Love Scripts is completely guaranteed to work, so there’s no risk for you):

  7.  #7Ella on June 20, 2011 at 10:24 am

    I really miss having a cat or a dog to cuddle, stroke and pet… it so makes me happy…

    Oh, well, one day, when I have more money again and life is a bit more settled!


  8.  #8DE on June 20, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Wow, interesting post…

    Gosh, I didn’t experience any of it…but is also true…I am very selective about about who I decide to meet…

    Ever since I changed my profile and really showed the “real” me, the pool of men contacting me is far less…but of better quality…yet, i noticed many men coming back to look at my profile…as in “hmm…shocked by what i say”, yet they don’t send anything…which i know it has nothing to do with me…but rather is posing a question for them whether or not they are ready…

    What i also noticed, those who do want to meet with me are really ready to meet the “one”…

    I, on the other hand, enjoy greatly my “singleness”…and really taking my time to know someone and wait for the right person to step up…not in a hurry a bit…which is an awesome feeling indeed!!!! Thanks to u Rori!

  9.  #9DE on June 20, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Last nite, I had a first meeting/date…

    The guy contacted me immediately after signing up about 3 weeks ago …we talked…i felt a bit put off by his arrogant tone …he asked to meet, but at that time, my weekend as booked…so, we agreed for a Monday evening…he followed up making a nice comment about one of my pics on ma*tch…and sent me a message on match (although he had my phone number) saying he was looking fwd to meet me the following day….Also, that weekend was when I completely changed my profile …and I noticed he did look at it…

    Well, the following day, I heard nothing from him to confirm place/time, etc…and I said to myself…”okay, no problem…it may not be the right time for him…”
    So, i didn’t call him or txt him either…i honestly forgot ab him…

    Two weeks later (sat nite), well, he calls leaving a message.

    I returned his call yesterday late morning…he responded saying he was surprised to hear from me so early (it was almost 11am)…
    I said playfully “well, should i hung up then, and call later?”…he laughed…anyhow, he said he has all day available if i want to meet…

    I thought ab it for a minute…i wanted the day to be for myself…so, i agreed to a meeting after 5…at which he said…”okay, call me then “…i responded “oh, it would feel good to have definite plans…like time, place…”…he then came up with both…

    so we met last nite, and i felt good about a first meeting…i like that i am not too attracted to him…:) yet, he is very interesting…i love his energy and passions (which are a bit similar to mine)…he walked me to my car and gave me a biggggg tight hug…i noticed it…and melt it…:) good evening…sorry, Rori, the date was about 3 hours…:( great back and forth sharing of info…

    oh, he told me a few things about me made him really pay attention to me because nobody expressed that to him before…one was about having a time/place confirmed…he said he was relieved that i expressed my expectation because he was afraid to act too “pushy”…or too “forward”…lol and the other about my profile…i seemed “vulnerable” and “soft”…:)

    Warm hugs,

  10.  #10DE on June 20, 2011 at 11:17 am


    Hmm…I can’t help but notice the amount of labeling/judgements of men Myralisa is listing…and it made thing of your program “Toxic Men”…which apparently is one of the programs not listed by her…

    Labels/judgements of others suggests to me many unrecognized themes, patterns within ourselves…and your program Toxic Men helps us identify them…it also helps us meet our “alter ego”…giving us the opportunity to finally take charge of our lives and be accountable for the things we, alone, have created by our unhealed beliefs…

  11.  #11Turtle Girl on June 20, 2011 at 11:43 am

    I got my email with Rori’s “what to say when he leaves you speechless” in my box this morning.

    It never ceases to amaze me how timing happens with these thing.

    Last night my man and I got into a difficult situation.
    We met seven months ago and he lived 1000 miles away. He actually came up to my town and rented an apartment here and we have been doing more “face time”. Things have been going well and he has asked me to marry him several times. I have not said yes yet because I feel it is too soon. I think a year is better before I take that serious of a plunge.

    So yesterday he is telling me about talking to all a couple of his children and telling them he is now is my town and what not. I asked him if he told them why he moved here and he said he did not.
    Without going into detail and making a really long post, he basically has kept me a secret because he does not want his ex wife to know about me!!

    I told him I did not want to be a secret and it feels awful. He told me he didn’t think I should feel that awful (invalidated my feelings) because he is just friends with his ex. He has a few exes he is “just friends” with. If he is just friends, then why not tell her.
    He said he would. Now I feel mistrusting and unimportant to him. I have met one daughter, and she knows about me, but she is from a second marriage an has a different mother, so she would not be telling his first ex wife.

    I was so upset I did start to shake and I walked outside for a couple minutes to try and regain my composure. We had planned for him to sleep over and have dinner and a movie. After eating, this came out and I felt so horrible and not knowing what to say I said to him “I think you should leave”. He told me he does not love her, but me. And then he walked out the door. I have not heard from him.

    He has told me is not good with conflict and hates hurting people’s feelings. I get the impression he does not want to hurt his ex by telling her he has moved on. Apparently they were doing things together about a year ago and sleeping together again and their kids were there-a family thing and such. Thinking mom and dad would get back together and he wanted to try it too to see if it might work. But then he said he realized he could not go back to the past. And yet if he wasn’t slept with her in 7 months (according to him since we met) then why the secrecy. I am feeling red flags and hurt and not knowing what to do.

    I do no want to be the fallback girl, or the girl in the other town he has and keeps one in another town as a fall back. I hear of men who do this kind of thing.
    A girl in every port as it were. This triggers all my cheating bells and makes me feel very insecure.

    My ex had affairs and I recognize that maybe this is something to be healed, but that does not change the fact that he is keeping secrets and I can feel it. There is a vibe to this that feels all wrong. I feel like he is being chicken shit and sheepish.

    It is our only issues. We gt along great otherwise, except for this. Trust however is a big one and I told him a while back when he walked outside to take a phone call from an ex girlfriend (from 18 months ago)
    that that didn’t feel good. He says they are “just friends” too. And that he does not want to feel like he has to walk on eggs around me. And of course I don’t want to feel like I have to always wonder “what’s going on”. And if he is the kind of man who always needs a “harem” in the wings to have in case it does not work out with me.

    He jokingly told me last night he did not want to tell his daughter about us in case it doesn’t work out then he would look like a love struck fool for moving here and then I dump him at some point. Wow. I don’t know what to say about that. I asked him if he was serious to which he said no. Hmmmm.

    I feel very confused and almost numb right now.
    I do not want to be treated this way. I don’t know what to say. Should I lean back and let him contact me? That is my gut feeling. That if he really loves me he will want to do what it takes to make me feel safe and he will want to fix this.

    Lost, sad and crying my eyes out. I was just stunned just like Rori said in her email. Stunned at his insensitivity to how his behavior might make me feel.

    I am feeling just like today’s post. Are they all goons?
    My man has been “stretching the truth” I think and has some kind of hidden agenda only I don’t know what it is. I HATE secrets and sneaky dodgy behavior.

    I am also having a lot of trouble with the whole “mirroring” thing. I am not acting sneaky or dodgy so why would I attract this? I have been over and over it and there is nothing. The thought that if I am attracting this into my life feels horrible. I have come miles from where I started in my relationships with men before I found this sight. I am so tired of feeling “not cherished” by a man when we are together.

    I feel confused and thrown off balance like I have been hit with a baseball bat in my stomach. A man asks me to marry him and then keeps me a secret? No. Something is not right here.

    I guess I will have to be willing to totally give him up.
    I have not been continuing to date other men for a while now. And maybe I should start doing that again.
    Maybe this would not feel so awful.

    There is nothing worse than the feeling of betrayal even if there is nothing actually to it. The problem is I don’t know, so i can’t get my bearings and I feel off balance and this feels unsafe and terrible.

    Thanks for letting me vent sirens. I have no other place to go with these things. My girlfriends have no good advice on what to do now. I feel completely lost and heartbroken.

  12.  #12Ella on June 20, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Hey Sirens,

    Guess what. I have a date from POF and 2 more in the pipeline hopefully.

    And all with using FMs and being true to myself!


    Yay me.

    And I might have a new job to earn some extra money too. I am hopefully going on for a trial shift in the next few days…

    It is in a nice country pub/restuarant nearby.

    I feel hopeful and excited.

  13.  #13Ella on June 20, 2011 at 11:59 am

    My first date is with an older guy who I do not feel particularly attracted to from his pics but it is a short daytime coffee date and so good practice.

  14.  #14Ladybug on June 20, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    No, not all men are Goons. Go ahead and smack them down, they’re used to it!

    I had a wonderful weekend with RaceCarDriver. The races were rained out, the car never got out of the trailer. We talked, snuggled, kissed and watched movies in his motorhome while waiting for the track to dry. I like big testosterone pumped teddy bears!

    By this morning, I have 3 new men asking for dates at POF. I only joined 10 days ago. I don’t have a pic posted, so these men are brave enough to face a Sea Hag. I like brave men!

    Back to reality this morning too. Time to deal with Powertrippin’Push/PullMan and his mother. Need product badly! Screw feeling messages, let my Boy out and be the business woman, don’t let my Dad out and make them cry. Let PowerTripper know I need product ASAP, no more BS from his mom. Mother’s being a real Hag, I REALLY wanted to let my Dad words out of my mouth and make HER cry. Again this week she doesn’t KNOW when her hired help will be working and can load my van? “May I have R’s phone number please?” Nasty woman. No wonder PowerTripper is the way he is, he shoulda’ taken his nuts back decades ago.

    Talk to hired man, no he won’t charge me to come over and load. I always bring the guys treats, cookies, hot bisquits & bread, jams and cobblers.

    PowerTrippin’Push/PullMan calls all sweet, he’ll load for me now that I’m completely out of product. If I leave the house right now, he’ll take the time for me. No thanks, R will be there for me. Oh (silence) Go into my friendly chat to everyone mode.

    I couldn’t believe he was still up at his shop an hour later watching to make sure my van got loaded.

  15.  #15txpeg on June 20, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Those men are attracted to you for the same reasons that you were exposed to them. You are fabulous and they are out there ‘grazing’. They came upon you and they want the best – just as you do. That doesn’t mean you have to accept them. There are a lot of stupid women out there too. When a man (good or toxic) spots a good woman, he wants her. Just because he’s toxic doesn’t mean he doesn’t have good taste in women. Be grateful that you got to see what you didn’t want and that the selection process is still valid. If they were all good, every woman on this website would jump at them. I try to feel grateful that God sent me available men to keep me motivated and looking – even if I’m completely underwhelmed by them. It reminds me that there are a lot of lonely people out there looking for the same thing that I want.

  16.  #16Sammie on June 20, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Turtle Girl,

    That sounds painful! I have been immersed in Esther and Jerry Hick’s Abraham’s teachings the past three days. I have read The Vortex on relationships and Money and the Law of Attraction in that time.

    I get the daily quote from them, but this has been an enormous change around. I was encouraged by the links some sirens posted lately just when I really needed some uplifting on Friday. I am now feeling so wonderful.

    I encourage you to look into their teachings as well. It could be the not wanting someone who cheats or makes one feel suspicious kind of idea of the law of attraction. Whatever is going on, if you can get to a good feeling place…


  17.  #17FlowerChild77 on June 20, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    (((TG))) I’m sorry you’re going through this. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been reading a post that used your letter as the subject (an older one about toxic men and your experience) over and over again, since Saturday when I first found it. I think you are terrific and I admire you for trusting your boundaries. So, basically, even though I don’t know you–you’re an inspiration to me.

    I’ve also been watching the Abraham videos (I have the books, also, but seeing and hearing it is more helpful, sometimes.)

    I know reading from others that we are somehow ‘attracting’ things we don’t want into our lives can be a bit triggering–but the more I get “into” the LOA and using the tools/processes that I learn from Abraham (Esther and Jerry Hicks) the more I realize I do have the power to change the course of things for myself.

    It’s also been showing me how some very deep seated beliefs about myself and my worth (or lack of it) have been keeping me from true alignment with what I want and deserve. It’s nothing we do on purpose–and without really opening up (peeling away the layers, as Rori says) we may never know about all the beliefs that kind of “run the show” for us. Our thoughts can’t do anything for us unless we have the emotions to go along with it.

    Can you try to let go of any specific outcome? That’s one of the hardest things for me to do sometimes. But once I do let go, I’m able to be present right now–and focus my energy on right now and what I’m creating for the future.

    CDing will help you in many ways. Most of all I hope it will help you see yourself as “the prize” and remind you that you are SO worth taking the time to find what you deserve in your happily-ever-after.

  18.  #18FlowerChild77 on June 20, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    Jeannette and Brenda…you are in my thoughts and prayers. Let us know how you’re doing <3

  19.  #19Xti on June 20, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    I had to laugh at Myralisa’s description:

    “Men who stretch the truth; Men who are are serial online daters; Men who sharp shoot rabbits in the forehead while hunting; Men who eat the rabbits; Men who long to have me over to eat the rabbits; Men who make me wonder whether they see me as a big rabbit”

    I met this guy too! No joke. But I am happy to report that he self-selected himself out of the way and made room for the right one.

    This realization hit home today when I read this on a vedic astrology site:

    “There is actually no compatibility or incompatibility. There is only the price to be paid.”

    Stunning. Flows right into what Rori is teaching. If I settle for a man, any man… I am agreeing to pay the price for that relationship.

    Some men will cost more (less compatible) and some will cost less (more compatible)

    Time will show me what I’ll be paying. If I move slow, I can see the cost up front. If I rush, I won’t see it until hindsight.

    Beautiful. This helped me so much. 🙂

  20.  #20FlowerChild77 on June 20, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Ella, it sounds like you are doing really great! It’s all about baby-steps. Try to keep an open mind about your CD’s. It really is true that attraction can grow over time. (Any man I was ever attracted to “right away” turned out to be bad for me. I somehow believed that if a really attractive man wanted me that it validated me somehow.)

    Good luck with your new job prospect. <3

  21.  #21Turtle Girl on June 20, 2011 at 4:59 pm


    You said:
    ((TG))) I’m sorry you’re going through this. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been reading a post that used your letter as the subject (an older one about toxic men and your experience) over and over again, since Saturday when I first found it. I think you are terrific and I admire you for trusting your boundaries. So, basically, even though I don’t know you–you’re an inspiration to me.

    Me: That is a very nice thing to say and I appreciate your kind words, truly I do. I have come miles in the kind of men I attract from that post. I look back at that man now and I think to myself-“Wow what was I thinking?” And well, I wasn’t then. Not at all. I had somehow lost myself and I was miserable. But in case you are wondering-he was extremely toxic and getting on my horse and riding away from that man was one of the best things i have ever done for myself. There was a time when those things would just devastate me and it certainly cause me a bit of pain, but you live to love another day.

    Yo said: I’ve also been watching the Abraham videos (I have the books, also, but seeing and hearing it is more helpful, sometimes.)

    I know reading from others that we are somehow ‘attracting’ things we don’t want into our lives can be a bit triggering–but the more I get “into” the LOA and using the tools/processes that I learn from Abraham (Esther and Jerry Hicks) the more I realize I do have the power to change the course of things for myself.

    Me: I have seen these before, but it has been a while since I have looked at them. Thank you for this reminder, maybe I need to revisit some of this. It seems that everything I have ever learned, I have to learn again. :o)

    You said: It’s also been showing me how some very deep seated beliefs about myself and my worth (or lack of it) have been keeping me from true alignment with what I want and deserve. It’s nothing we do on purpose–and without really opening up (peeling away the layers, as Rori says) we may never know about all the beliefs that kind of “run the show” for us. Our thoughts can’t do anything for us unless we have the emotions to go along with it.

    Me: This is what is most upsetting. I attracted this man by using techniques from the Soulmate Secret.
    I even knew the date I would meet him and I did. I really thought after sending my list to the universe that he would be the one for me. I had never done anything like that before. And he showed up. So now, i am shaken and question all my beliefs about this kind of thing. And cynicism is creeping in and I know that is the death knell and won’t help.

    You said:Can you try to let go of any specific outcome? That’s one of the hardest things for me to do sometimes. But once I do let go, I’m able to be present right now–and focus my energy on right now and what I’m creating for the future.

    Me: Sigh. Yes, you are right of course. I know this. We must state our boundaries and that’s it. What HE does is not my problem. Thank you for reminding me of this. I know this. And most of the time it works.
    I have found that along our path we get better and better at this and sometimes we “backslide” so to speak and have to get back on our bridge and keep going.

    You said: CDing will help you in many ways. Most of all I hope it will help you see yourself as “the prize” and remind you that you are SO worth taking the time to find what you deserve in your happily-ever-after.
    Yeah I know. As foolish as it sounds I was doing this and life was good. When I met this man I really thought he would me my future life mate and so the necessity to CD waned. Prolly not a good idea. At the risk of sounding cynical, once they know they have you as a “girlfriend” why behave well? I have talked to male friends about this and one of my guy buddies says he won’t date a woman knowing she is dating others. This issues is frustrating and complicated.
    I just need to realize that yes, I am worth it and of course I know I am. I just get tired. Maybe I need another break from the whole man scaping thing.

    I appreciate your encouragement and support. xxoo

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 2:22pm

  22.  #22Turtle Girl on June 20, 2011 at 5:04 pm


    Thank you for posting this:

    “There is actually no compatibility or incompatibility. There is only the price to be paid.”

    Wow——-that is sooooo right on and it gave me chills to realize how true this is.

    That my man and I could be super compatible on all sorts of levels, but so what? If I feel insecure and unsafe around him and he is not doing the job of rectifying that, that what difference does it make? None. The price I would pay would be too high.

    Oh thank you thank you thank for this great insight.

    Turtle Girl, taking it slow but taking it

  23.  #23Xti on June 20, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    This is one more piece of info from that website (Laura Barat is the astrologer) that is really validating what I’m learning here:

    “Women are more prone to liking choices than men. As mentioned before, feminine energy is receptive. Therefore it is receptive to what comes its way and will take the best option.

    “It is all about options. When a man is courting a woman, he presents her with situations and activities.

    “If she does not like what he presents her with, then it is his job to offer another option. When…there are no other options presented and the female is basically forced to accept only one situation or activity, [t]his is extremely frustrating to feminine energy and therefore the female becomes drained in a relationship.”

    I really like her explanation of this!

    (Note that she is talking about a compatibility issue post-marriage in a culture where divorce is not accepted. In our time & society, women can choose to walk away if no other acceptable options are forthcoming.)

  24.  #24Tmizz on June 20, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Such a great post, and such great comments!

    Xti, I love that quote – “There is actually no compatibility or incompatibility. There is only the price to be paid.”

    Interestingly, I think your analysis is dead on for women – the higher price we pay, the less “compatible” the relationship. But I think it actually works in the reverse for men. The more they “pay,” the more they value the relationship, and therefore they become compatible, because they want to be with you. I don’t mean that they pay emotionally, but that they become invested in who you are. It is a great quote. Truly dead-on.


    And I’ve been going through some of my own stuff lately. I had a situation with a guy recently – I don’t think I wrote about it here. Or maybe I did. I hope this isn’t a repeat.

    I was having dates with two men. Not my only dates, but my major dates. I met them at about the same time. After a week with one of them, he started talking about exclusivity. Not in the sense of sex per se, but that he didn’t feel comfortable with me dating other men. This felt great. I loved spending time with him, and we clicked in a lot of ways. The only problem was that he wasn’t the best kisser for me, and it turned out he wasn’t the best for me in other ways, physically. Or maybe he was. I don’t know.

    Meanwhile, I still wanted to meet this other guy. So I did. He was cute. And he was a GREEEEEEAAAAAAAT kisser. So I stopped seeing the other guy, for my own reasons, and was just open to seeing what would happen with this other guy, as he seemed really interested. *seemed* at least.

    But I am realizing now, after the fact, that I was very nervous on the third date. I knew I was nervous, but I didn’t say anything about it. I just keep thinking about and looking for the right time to say the difficult things I had to say but didn’t want to. Also, I hadn’t told him I’d stopped seeing the other guy yet (I had told him I was in a relationship already). I wasn’t sure what he would think of it.

    Okay, long story short, I believe I sabotaged the relationship by being so tense and nervous and by not actually speaking my truth, in the end. I told him some true things, but I did not reveal my true feelings behind any of it. And he seemed quieter and more withdrawn during the date. I thought it was him, but maybe he was picking up on my anxious “vibe.” So he stayed for a while, we chatted, he kissed me some more, and when he left my house, he looked happy, but I haven’t heard from him since. That was two weeks ago. I’ve sent two messages, and now I’ve stopped. I don’t want to become a “stalker.”

    I know he doesn’t owe me any explanation. He’s a guy, and he does things for his own reasons. And the other fact is that I really don’t need him now any more than I did before I met him – which is to say, not at all – even if he IS a really good kisser.

    I kind of wish I hadn’t broken things off entirely with the other guy, just in case it was workable…but, when I really think about it, it probably wouldn’t be.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is, I don’t want to have to choose between a guy who is relationship-oriented but not good in bed, and a guy who’s a FABulous kisser, but doesn’t care about me or having a relationship. Argh!

    I know that all guys are not creeps. I know that I attract Really Good Men. I know that I can have the best, and I deserve the best. I know that I am the total package. And I WANT the total package. I want Good For Me+Feels Awesome=Best Relationship Ever!!!!

    And I can have it, right? That’s not asking too much, Universe, is it? Thanks. I knew it. I know you’ll come through for me.

    I can’t wait! 🙂

  25.  #25Lucy on June 20, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    (((Turtle Girl))) I’m sorry you are feeling so bad. I am wondering if the “mirror” is Insecurity. It sounds like his “joke” about why he didn’t tell them may have an element of truth in it. This may be a great opportunity for Both of you to heal your insecurity. I would really stick with non-blaming FM’s as much as possible: “I feel insecure. I don’t want to feel this way. I don’t know what to do. I feel scared.” It’s quite possible that all the things you are afraid of are untrue/unfounded with him, and

  26.  #26Emerson on June 20, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Oopsies I posted on the other article
    Here’s what I said:

    766: kaitlyn says:
    Emerson, any updates on gym guy?

    I saw him tonight when I went to go work out, and he said hi and something about how I was cool…LOL…I smiled and said thanks! I was trying to work on my vibe and be open and soft and feminine…hee hee.

    I was just going on with my workout…thinking I’m really not feeling it re: bringing up anything about my ex-boyfriend and how he’s not in the picture…blah blah!!! It just felt ewww….

    But I didn’t even have to!!! I ended up chatting with him and another guy about motorcycles and he asked me if I wanted to go on a motorcycle ride with him! I am kinda scared but I said yes!

    He was like really, Emerson? You will go with me? I was like heck yah that sounds fun! Then after the class we walked out to our cars together and he’s so fun to chat with! So cute. I’m excited!

    Well that was a really long story just to tell you all that a guy asked me to go on his motorcycle…hahaha

    Monday, 20 June 2011 @ 10:17pm

  27.  #27Lucy on June 20, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    that his reasons for not telling them about you are innocent. So… if you focus on your feelings and don’t blame, judge, or accuse him, he has an opportunity to help you feel better. Blaming/accusing, however, will make him defensive. It has to be All about you not him. Hugs and love. <3 Lucy

  28.  #28Emerson on June 20, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    This article is hilarious except that I’ve experienced a couple of those as well…eeek…
    Like hmm, would have been nice to know you’re on probation or that your EX is upset about you dating. Buh bye!!!
    But no, they are not all goons.
    I’m a little let down by a couple of my potential CDs that seemed hopeful,, but haven’t given up yet. They’re just a bit slow to respond. But I’m LEEEAAANNING BAAACKK…

  29.  #29LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    Hello Mel,

    This is your marriage you are speaking about.
    I have bought nothing at all from this site, so I am not judging the quality at all, I am only pasting what Rori herself writes at the bottom of her eletter.

    “The material contained in this and any other communication from Rori Raye is an expression of opinion and is not to be construed as legal, medical or professional advice. This material may only to be used for personal entertainment purposes.”

    I would love to know you are putting your scarce money on sessions with a professional cognitive behavioral therapist.
    Your marriage won’t be saved through posts with strangers or to yourself on internet with no feedback from a professional therapist.
    Even if your husband does not follow through, the therapy will allow you to chose the father of your children, free from your old life scripts, and to educate your children from a peaceful place.
    The money would be the best investment you could make.

    I would love to know you did not just go to any therapist but that it was a certified cognitive therapist

    If you click on this link, you’ll find the name and address of a certified cognitive therapist close to your home{BEE31A5C-92BC-4036-8015-799C4BA55336}&RLMsg=&SP=

    I wish you to find peace and I send you love.


  30.  #30LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    From the Ancestors of the cognitive behavioral therapy all the way to some contemporaneous names:

    Asian philosophy
    Greek stoicism (Epictetus among others)
    Roman philosophy
    Zen Buddhism
    Some Contemplative Christian practices

    Carl Jung
    Sándor Ferenczi and Otto Rank who created in the 1920’s a “here-and-now”, object-relational therapy.
    Dr Alfred Adler (studied the power dynamics between men and women, associations masculinity/femininity. Around 1912)
    Alfred Korzybski (invented General semantics 1933) Leads to quantum dynamics.

    Eric Berne (Transactional analysis 1958)
    Dr Albert Ellis (invented Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy in 1955)
    Abraham Maslow (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs in the 1950’s)
    Dr. Alexander Lowen  (he developed Bioenergetic Analysis in the 1950’s)
    Dr. Marshall B. Rosenberg (founder of the Nonviolent Communication in the 1960’s)

    Marsha Lenehan Ph.D. on Dialectical Behavior Therapy
    Dr. Aaron Beck and his daughter, Dr. Judith Beck (Academy of cognitive therapy)
    Francine Shapiro (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing 1989)
    Daniel Goleman (Emotional Intelligence)
    Candace Pert (neuroscientist who wrote : “Molecules of emotions” 1999 and I think she appears in the movie The Secret)
    Dr Pat Allen (Cognitive behavioral therapist who spread in the USA the technique of dating at least 3 men … as a healing tool. She allows people to use her stuff but her dating thing is copyright as “Duty Dating®“ so the non professionals who apply her concept use each a different name for their business.
    For the pleasure of entertainment, as Rori calls the information on this blog, here is a movie who illustrates Dr Pat Allen’s “Duty Dating®“.
    Dr Pat Allen teaches her “Duty Dating®“ to heal wounded women, yet the movie focuses on healthy women looking for a husband as the movie was made from a dating coach point of view. Check all the feeling messages the feminine character tried to insert to replace the “I think” ha ha ha I loved it!–1hWfLZ4E


  31.  #31LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Transactional Analysis 1: ego states & basic transactions


  32.  #32LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:47 pm

  33.  #33LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Transactional Analysis 3: gimmicks


  34.  #34LonePlum on June 20, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Religion — The Bad Parent (parent here being the part of us that acts as a parent to others according to Eric Berne’s schema)


  35.  #35Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 12:04 am

    Hello everyone, and thank you for all your thoughts and caring towards me…it really makes a difference, and I feel buoyed up!

    Things are going much better overall, altho I am still waiting for the unemployment money that is (past) due me. I am jobhunting and manhunting. Altho there is so much I could say, what really means a lot to me today is a healthy conversation I had with Ryan on Monday (now yesterday)!

    Ryan texted me early in the morning, asking me to please talk to him. I called him, and we talked about an hour! It was the longest conversation we’ve had in a very long time. He said he believes there were a lot of misunderstandings about what happened in 2009, and that I was being attacked by the parts of him that are schizophrenic.

    He assured me very strongly that he himself does not want to hurt me, and that is not HIS nature. I believe him. Of course, it is all confusing and complex with him being schizophrenic. And so I aim to simplify it here. What’s important is that our friendship is still important to him, too.

    He said in order to keep from hurting me over and over, he encouraged both of us to continue to seek help and healing from past hurts, him for schizophrenia, and me for depression, etc. He discussed with me us keeping apart so we can each focus on our healing. He said it in a mature way, and he said we can talk again after some time has passed, after we have gotten more healing.

    I told him my logical self agrees: that I want each of us to be healthy, too, and I want a healthy friendship with him, too. I said my emotional self misses you like crazy and wants to cling to you, but my logical self will agree to not contact each other for a while.

    What is going to make it so much easier is the immense healing I felt just from him opening up more than ever about the past, and approaching me in such a caring, healthy way…my peace felt restored in regards to Ryan! So it will be easier for me to not compulsively contact him. He was so kind and open to me, and it felt absolutely wonderful!

  36.  #36Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 12:26 am

    My new CD, New Jersey, finally met me today! He treated us out to a nice diner, where we both enjoyed eggplant parmesan and a salad bar! We have been talking on the phone close to two months! Things keep coming up to prevent us from meeting. Finally today we made it happen, and he is a genuinely nice guy!

    He has his quirks, but they are loveable quirks! At the risk of sounding judgmental, I will just say that, as a description, he is kind of the nerdy type who hasn’t gotten out much in society…like me in the past, so I totally relate and understand. So it’s an endearing judgment, in a way.

    He is into his $70,000 worth of trains in his collection, about 25 sets. He repairs old TVs and radios. He’s a movie buff and can name actors from many old movies. He loves flea markets and auctions. He’s Italian, and he looks Italian and talks New Joisey Italian-like in his accent and expressions. He’s adorable!

    He has stunning blue eyes, and I complimented them twice today, much to his embarrassment. He is responsible with his own home, caring for his grandfather, and buying a new pickup truck, and he is also unemployed.

    The cutest part is at the end of the date, he gave me a handshake! 🙂 And I could sense he liked me (still), so I knew he wasn’t trying to push me away. So I said, “Can I give you a hug?” Tonight on the phone, he said, “That hug really felt good, but it surprised me! I thought you would think I am a shmuck! A loser! Cuz that’s what I feel like.”

    I told him that money comes and money goes, and jobs come and jobs go…but who you are inside is what matters most, and you are a wonderful man! He has spent hours talking with me on the phone over the past couple of months, and he’s a great conversationalist. Yet not once has he talked about sex and relationships, before Monday night on the phone, after our date.

    And even at that, I initiated the topic. He said is going to bed and cuddling with his dogs, nothing very crazy about that. I said, “You ought to do something more crazy, like go to bed and cuddle with ME!” He laughed, sounding embarrassed, saying, “That would be nice! I wish!”

    From there he finally started talking more close to home about his lonely past and all. I so enjoy talking with him, and he is so cute in his nerdiness. If I hadn’t been so backward in the past, I wouldn’t have given him the time of day. But I get him. Now I just have to figure out how to circular date him without breaking his heart. I can tell he likes me a lot.

    I like him a lot, too, but I am not wanting to be exclusive. Baby steps, I guess…it will be fun.

  37.  #37LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 12:53 am

    Hello Brenda

    It feels so good to feel your energy and your hope!
    I don’t know how you sorted out the problem with the dogs barking but I was thinking you could buy one of these things you tie around their mouth? I don’t know the name but it keeps dogs from barking or biting. It might feel sad to put that on them but it might allow you to stay at the lady’s house. Just a thought.

    I am sending love and my best wishes


  38.  #38LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 12:54 am

    Joyeux Anniversaire SLV 🙂

    From a witch to a druid 😉 🙂


  39.  #39Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 1:19 am


    RE: #37 – Thank you! Well, thank God, the barking issue is improving! I never saw that gadget before in your link…ty. I am using a bark collar now. I bought two a couple years ago, and they fell into disuse when the batteries died. I got new batteries, and I can only find one. So I alternate each day on the dogs. It shocks them on the neck when they bark, and it seems to have cut into their barking significantly!

    A couple days ago, I took them outside to go potty, and a neighbor dog was barking continuously. I felt amazed to see them not bark at all!! Also, we covered the two main windows thru which they were looking out and seeing other dogs, which was stimulating their barking.

    Thanks, tho! And thanks for your kind words! Yes, I am feeling so much better about dating and men, learning to navigate my way around the goons.

    What I have learned most from Rori, in a nutshell, is SELF RESPECT. And I can never thank her enough for all she has done to improve my life!

  40.  #40LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 1:31 am


    I dry your tears with a soft handkerchief, I put a kiss on your sweet cheek, and I cook a delicious cocoa drink. You sip it and you love it, it soothes your heart.
    And I comb your shiny hair and you put eye liner on my bright eyes and we put our pretty colored cloths and I put my high heels and you put your anklace and we go dancing until blood comes out of our feet.
    We come back so deliciously tired, we feel our body alive and satisfied. We fall into the bed and become asleep with no time to remember.

    My dear Meemee you are going through a terrible pain. You can learn to not think of him, but you can’t avoid the pain. Let it become all soft , let it wrap your heart like a coat of love and surrender. Remember how it really was, you were not happy, you know it would be hell to be married to him. His marriage is your salvation against yourself, you will see. Be patient.
    Let the anger become all soft like that unctuous cocoa I am cooking for you. Let it become clarity and love will wrap you with two warm generous caring arms.

    My heart beats with yours


  41.  #41LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 1:39 am


    I love that! The barking collar is teaching them to not bark at all! Bless them 🙂

    Yes I felt proud of your answer to Ryan. Your true feelings coupled with maturity.
    You will make it.


  42.  #42kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 2:46 am

    Left Adam a vm today saying it’s beautiful here outside and I’m having a great day. He then sent me an email saying, “Got your vm. Glad you’re having a great day. I’m having a bad one and I’m still depressed. Gonna lay in bed and read and do nothing.”

    My reply: “Perfect!”

    I mean, what else do you say to that? The guy’s gonna just chill tonight and it’s progress he’s telling me instead of heading into his cave for 4 or 5 days without warning like he always does.

    Yesterday was the day his family went to his cousin’s cemetary plot. And yesterday was the day Adam called me and after some light convo he asked about my text where I said, “Not mad at you. Just myself. I can’t talk right now; I’m still processing my feelings/thoughts.”

    He asked what I meant by mad at myself. I let him have it. I told him I was mad at myself for still treating him like a boyfriend when he told me he didn’t want to be anyone’s boyfriend right now.

    I feel bad I said it on such a morose day for him. But he asked.

    How’d I do? Ugh.

  43.  #43kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 2:51 am

    No idea why but so many losers pre-Adam are calling me out of nowhere, wanting to re-connect. Ick.

  44.  #44kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 2:57 am

    And really, I’m starting to feel like is any time a bad time to mention my feelings? Everyday is some drama/tragedy for him.

  45.  #45Daria on June 21, 2011 at 3:04 am

    sexycd did not call to reschedule, or pick up my calls to confirm,

    which wound up making things smoother, because i met up with my godbrothers on one of their bdays in the city ,and going witht hem out of town and sleeping over

    and waking up with them around and it felt wonderful

    it felt hot hot hot out and that felt wonderful

    there were other people in those apartments and it felt like they were all “our” apartments and it felt alive and natural like we were in the jungle

    and i felt aooomaazing and took public transportation back and kciked it with the 2 cute guys from dui class

    and exhcahged looks with one of teh cute ones, hes really cute


    oh i like him

    and first they left but then they reinvited me to hang out with them


    i feel good

  46.  #46Kyla on June 21, 2011 at 3:06 am

    I’ve been doing lots of work on moving and the temporary LTR situation it will create with R.

    I have 9 weeks left here. I have a list several pages long of things to do before I go. I have another list in equal length of things to do once I arrive. I feel good knowing I have so much to focus my boy energy on to keep me busy and occupied and prevent me from concentrating solely on what R is doing.

    For my girl, I’ve created a vision board with things to look forward to and things that make me happy. Also, I will need a completely new wardrobe as I will be in a different climate and the industry is much more formal than it is here. So I’m excitedly looking up style blogs and browsing clothing options 🙂 I feel inspired and I’m looking forward to treating myself 🙂

    Communication with my ex husband is great at the moment! We have drafted a parenting plan that we are both really happy with and I’m getting it drawn up by my lawyer tomorrow. I feel grateful about that.

    R sat down and talked with me about the move, how his plans are going, how he’s feeling about the move, the length of time apart and our relationship. I feel much more secure about it now and feel confident that I can let go of much of my anxiety.

    I’m noticing that when things don’t go my way I have a tendency to feel anxious, sulky, irritated and closed off. I can feel R pulling away at these times and I feel insecure and angry then that he’s not being more supportive. I’ve been visualizing letting go and opening my hands to receive, softening my body and keeping my heart and pelvis soft. Almost instantly he comes back and either holds me or opens up communication. This feels great to notice! I feel more peaceful and I’m glad I’m becoming more aware of patterns that are shutting me down and preventing me from receiving the love I deserve. I can work on this 🙂

  47.  #47Daria on June 21, 2011 at 3:08 am

    /kaitlyn – when i heard “perfect” it sounded more like you were his coach than a listening at level 2 woman…

    maybe you can try something like… aww … or okay…

    or not like youre coaching/nurturing him

    also, feels kinda weird to read that you shared with him that you were mad about that

    sounds a lil “off”…

    maybe because it seems the real deal authentic thing is to say… ‘im feeling sad and angry not having you be my boyfriend”

    rather than that you’re mad at yourself for…

    i dono just doesnt’ seem to really really tell the truth of what you feel

  48.  #48kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 3:15 am


    Great. I screwed up. What do I do now?

  49.  #49Kyla on June 21, 2011 at 4:00 am


    Its difficult to respond to a depressed man without overfunctioning so simply saying perfect instead of trying to comfort him or pull him out of his depression was really good imo. I find it so difficult to hold back and let the man take care of himself and I have to really resist the urge to go into mommy mode but I know I feel resentful and used when I go there. Maybe ok or aww or something like that would be even better to use next time but I still think you did great and smiled to myself when I read that post.

  50.  #50kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 4:04 am


    trust me, cuz this entire time he’s vented to me about his ex fiancee/ex friends drama, i just listen and do not give advice. hey, at least i learned THAT here since i seem to screw up everything else.

  51.  #51Kyla on June 21, 2011 at 4:38 am

    Have you looked through the archive at ‘how to undo the way you treat a depressed man’ and ‘how to deal with a depressed man’? I would not feel good being a shoulder to cry on and a listening ear if it was not mutual. Are you feeling supported and heard by Adam or is this friendship one-sided? Is that overfunctioning too? Could you share with him that you want to be there for him but you don’t know how. You feel sad to hear him so depressed and it feels bad to hear about his ex/friends?

    You sound like you are beating yourself up and listening to the negative voices and trying to be perfect for Adam. How would it feel to sink into your body and feelings and focus on taking care of you?

  52.  #52Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 4:48 am

    @26: Emerson says:
    “…I ended up chatting with him and another guy about motorcycles and he asked me if I wanted to go on a motorcycle ride with him! …”

    Hah! I told you if he were interested, he’d find a way to work it into the conversation. tee hee 😆

    Go have fun!


  53.  #53kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 4:55 am

    Kyla, he offers me support when I ask. It’s not one-sided. But I do feel slighted that he’s so bereft over the betrayal of his ex and his lame ex-friends that he canceled his trip here and cannot even focus on his family matters. He is, however, very grateful that I’m supportive and just a good listener, and always expresses that. I’ve expressed the other day that I did feel slighted, and he apologized.

  54.  #54Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 4:58 am


    Thanks for putting up the links. I’ll explore the material.


  55.  #55Mel on June 21, 2011 at 5:01 am


    I seriously need help expressing myself in feeling messages. It seems I try to state my boundaries or express how I’m feeling… and I’m doing it in a very Rori-approved way… but then he just dismisses me or turns things back on me or gets angry at me and then all FM’s go out the window.

    I asked for the car in a really kind and caring way… but then my feelings got all stepped on and this is what builds the resentment. When I feel I’m being completely reasonable and my feelings don’t even matter.

    For example, when he pulled the “hitch-hiking” card, he KNEW I would cave because
    A) It’s illegal here
    B) He knew I was already worried about him going in the first place and that I would not want one more thing to worry about
    C) He knows that I’m too “nice” and that if he pushes, or acts angry or put-out he’ll get what he wants because I hate conflict. … YUP, I’m a doormat! That’s something I want to work on.

    Anyway, so what I really need help with is sticking to my boundaries without blaming or giving-in or losing it when he challenges them.


  56.  #56Mel on June 21, 2011 at 5:06 am

    “Mel, I hate to ask this but it’s been bugging me as I read your story. Do you know for sure that he actually went camping???”

    Yeah… this is a distinct possibility. I wondered that myself. Because of the party and him not wanting to drop him off or pick him up. The thing is I’ll never really know and he’s certainly not going to tell me. So it doesn’t serve me to worry about it. I’ll have to make my decision by his actions in the next while. To see if he was serious about the 100% effort. That’s how I’ll know if we have a chance.

  57.  #57Mel on June 21, 2011 at 5:12 am


    I am seeing a therapist. On my own. I will go for my third appointment next week.

    I look to this blog as a place to finally be able to express how I’m feeling, to not hold all of these emotions in any more. A place where beautiful and smart women offer support and kindness.

  58.  #58Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 5:17 am

    @36: Brenda says:
    “…My new CD, New Jersey, finally met me today!…”

    Brenda, he sounds like a nice and interesting guy! Very likeable!


  59.  #59Butterfly Wings on June 21, 2011 at 5:22 am

    I hope it all works out for you Mel. I’ve been following your story and my heart goes out to you (my ex had at least one (that I know of) online affair and it broke my heart).

    Let’s hope you have some clarity soon – one way or the other!

  60.  #60Lily T. on June 21, 2011 at 5:27 am

    Happy Birthday SLV! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  61.  #61Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 5:28 am


    Merci beaucoup!

    “The Red Queen” parfois. “Princess” toujours.

    “Druid?” Qui sait?


  62.  #62Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 5:29 am

    @60: Lily T.

    Thank you very much!


  63.  #63Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 5:33 am

    Today…the first day of summer. Let’s enjoy.


  64.  #64kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 5:36 am

    happy birthday, SLV!!!! i’m imagining a garden party!

  65.  #65Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 5:36 am


    Happy Birthday, Special Lady. 🙂

    Sending you much love for the anniversary of your birth. Let the festivities begin!!! I imagine you have wonderful things planned for the day. It seems you always do.


  66.  #66Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 5:46 am

    @64: kaitlyn @65: Lilybelle

    The first day of my birthday has passed but I celebrate for month! I do a little something each day. Maybe it’s a bit much but it’s fun that way. Today I’m going to open and enjoy some birthday gifts that are still in boxes from last year!


  67.  #67kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 5:48 am


    still in boxes from last year? lolz! how’d you elude the ‘did you like my gift?’ question?

  68.  #68Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 6:00 am

    67: kaitlyn says:
    “…still in boxes from last year? lolz! how’d you elude the ‘did you like my gift?’ question?…”

    Oh, those I opened of course and good thing…one had to go back because wrong size. 😆

    The ones I’m talking about are two gifts I bought for myself, one is girly fragrance: “Grapefruit Lime & Mint” moisture mist from Victoria’s Secret. I had a lot of other stuff and never used it. (I just sprayed some in the air. :D) The other “me gift” is a pedometer and book “set” from Barnes & Noble. I got sick a few weeks after 2010 birthday and I never took them out of the box either.


  69.  #69Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:01 am

    Mel I believe you won’t necessarily always get a positive response on the feeling messages. First of all you have to get clear on exactly how you are feeling in a given moment tobe able to verbalize it. Next he will have to get used to hearing them, then deciding how he “wants” to respond to them. A mature man who wants to be with a woman who means something to him will adjust his behavior. “Boys” who weren’t necessarily trained how to behave with a lady might not know or might just not want to. It depends on their mood also. I have gotten mixed responses. I believe you will be setting yourself up if you go around believing you will always get the response you want. I have heard Rori say some men are better than others. I have heard another coach say just keep stating it or what you want over and over again as if it is the very time you are saying it. Even if you have already said it. Also bear in mind that after 3 strikes he might not respond so I would not ask for anything more than 3 times in any given conversation. In his mind you might then start bordering on nagging. I would also encourage you to look at what your anger produces when you act out on it towards him.

  70.  #70Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:08 am


    I know anger gets me nowhere. I also know it’s not about “getting” a certain response. I just want to be able to stand firm to my boundaries, even if he doesn’t respond positively.

    I just find it so difficult to calmly walk away when he says something like “I don’t really care how you feel.”

    I find I start out with good intentions. Not wanting to blame or criticize. But when I don’t feel even heard (no one said he had to agree) I feel so horrible and I revert back to old patterns of speaking to him.

  71.  #71Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 6:18 am

    @ 52 SLV thanks!!

    And have a wonderful, magical birthday!! 🙂

  72.  #72Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 6:24 am


    “he says something like “I don’t really care how you feel.”

    Ouch. I care how you feel, Mel.

  73.  #73Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:24 am

    I am posting somethings from previous posts

    Start with ONE feeling or sensation that’s in your writing – like “Having a man feels….”
    Then go with it into your body…”Having a man feels… shaky in my shoulders. My left shoulder feels tense now, that tension feels prickly, the prickly feels cold, prickly and cold makes my heart feel sad. Sadness feels like a lump in my heart. The lump feels metallic. Metallic feels cold, I LOVE my cold, metallic heart, it feels all shiny and special and glowing….and my glowing metallic heart is now melting, and now it feels all golden…..” (Deeper Sensations)

    what pure Feminine Energy language looks and sounds like:
    1. Only Feminine Energy, that’s completely attractive, magnetic , and passive
    2. It’s leaned-back, warm, inviting, grounded, centered, no-nonsense, feeling, easy, taking responsibility for itself, just Being
    3. It stands still when things aren’t going the way it wants, and if it starts feeling bad, it walks away. (Yep – walking away is FEMININE. “Hanging-in” when it feels bad is MASCULINE.)

  74.  #74Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:27 am

    “It stands still when things aren’t going the way it wants, and if it starts feeling bad, it walks away. (Yep – walking away is FEMININE. “Hanging-in” when it feels bad is MASCULINE.)”

    THIS is where I’m going wrong.

  75.  #75Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:28 am

    More from saved archives
    Let’s say you want something from your man – like more attention or affection or time, but he’s being distant and pre-occupied. Let’s say you’re feeling irritated and angry, and frightened that something’s going wrong in the relationship. If you’re in this situation now, or if you’ve ever been here, are you feeling that if you don’t speak up and ask for what you want you’re “weak,” and if you DO speak up and ask for what you want you’ll end up a “bitch”?
    So – first – do this: Make quick, everlasting and final PEACE with yourself – that WHATEVER you do or say, you will be okay with yourself, forgive yourself, and learn from the experience. This sets you up to SUCCEED, and will help you with the fear.
    Close your eyes, Breathe. Open your eyes and go get a piece of paper and a pen or pencil
    Put a line down the paper from top to bottom
    On the left side of the line, write down what you want to say to him. Take as many pieces of paper as you need, but stick to the left side of the paper.
    Now – take a look at what you’ve written. CATCH yourself JUDGING yourself about every line, and CATCH whatever feeling each line brings up in you – anger, frustration, fear, a smile (some of it might be really funny and make you laugh!)
    Last step is to rewrite EVERYTHING on the left (some of it will seem weak and doormat-like to you, and some of it will seem dramatic and bitchy to you) in FEELING MESSAGES (you can learn exactly how to do this in my ebook, and then see demonstrations of how to talk in Feeling Messages with a man in all my products – for now simply use the words “I feel,” or “I’m feeling” in every single sentence and completely cross out and do not use the word YOU).
    Just doing this small writing exercise instead of trying to talk to your man from either of the doormat/bitch extremes will make a HUGE difference for you, so if you’re in this kind of situation, and you want something or you’re angry about something – do this right now and let me know how it felt for you.

    1. Personal Power and Softness – INNERBONDING
    Softness is the energy of warmth, tenderness, love and power that emanates from people when they are in their higher selves. At this moment they know and love themselves, do not shame or violate themselves and others, do not seek approval nor fear disapproval, are not self conscious, and do not take personally others’ criticism, anger or rejection. Soft energy radiates from personal power, for when people know who they are, what they want, and how they feel, and they know they have the right to want what they want and feel what they feel, then they can not be dominated, controlled or emotionally hurt by others. When we are in this state of owning our personal power we are beyond weakness, and beyond violence of any kind. We can afford to be soft because we know we are not weak. Being in this state is an ideal, something we can all strive to be in more of the time…

  76.  #76Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Good stuff FW! 🙂

  77.  #77Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Mel I generally respect Loneplum’s opinions on things so I posting some archieved things here that I got from CCarter also.

    Dangerous Trap #1:
    Taking Over For Him When Things Aren’t Working
    So you say something like, “You really need to mow the lawn today instead of sitting around in front of the computer all day. I’m sick of doing everything around here.” It’s how you assert yourself.

    This way of being assertive above tends to SHUT MEN DOWN, and it often builds hostility in men instead of diffusing it. And that’s because you are acting in a way that he perceives as being MASCULINE, and for him, that is an instant turn-off. Have you lost touch with your natural feminine energy?

    This is an energy you already hold inside of you. It has the power to pull a man a man closer to you and make him want to BE the man you need him to be. Because your man’s natural reaction to your feminine energy is for him to become more masculine, which is what will lead him back into being the man who loves you and leads the way forward for you both in your relationship.

    It’s this feminine energy that has the amazing power to CAPTIVATE a man, make him feel great, and make him want to do anything for you. In fact, it’s this that will have him ASKING and BEGGING to see what else he can do for you. Mature, strong feminine energy does NOT nag, “mother,” boss around, criticize or feel frustrated all the time.

    Exerting your natural feminine energy means being very open and honest – and I mean RADICALLY honest – with what you really want, feel and need, way deep down.

    Dangerous Trap #2:
    Asking for Advice From Friends and Family
    No one will ever be as honest with you as you are with yourself. Your friends won’t tell you what it is they REALLY see, because they don’t want to make you feel WORSE than you’re already feeling.

    Dangerous Trap #3:
    Not Sharing Your Hurt Feelings or Sharing Them Outside Your Relationship
    It’s DANGEROUS because it builds a false kind of intimacy with someone outside of your relationship… and all that does is KILL the intimacy between you and your man even more.
    Telling a man “I can’t stand it anymore” is NOT the same as telling him, “I feel very abandoned and lonely because you haven’t been as physically affectionate with me as you used to be. It makes me feel unattractive and it hurts.”

  78.  #78Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:34 am

    That’s because when one person in any interaction becomes the “convincer”, the other person will usually resist. It’s human nature, and you probably know it all too well from your experience with men.
    A key to not falling into the trap of trying to fix things when a man withdraws into himself and to not drive yourself crazy trying to get him out of it is to first understand if this is a pattern HE HAS in his own life.
    If so, the first you need to do is to get clear that this is NOT about you. Doing that will allow you to clear your mind and stop acting from a place of worrying or wondering if it’s something about you or your relationship.

  79.  #79Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:38 am

    RE 70 I think it is great you are noticing yourself. I also believe the comment though directed at you about your feelings might be a reflection of how he is treating himself on the inside. Think about it also Mel, if you care about how you feel wouldn’t you take care of your own feelings regardless of what he says. Maybe sticking to your boundaries could be you showing him that you are taking care of yourself. Walking away might simply mean, “that feels bad and I don’t want to feel like that” and just walk away.

    Maybe he is seeing you taking care of your feelings “like a man” when you get angry and lose it?

  80.  #80Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 6:42 am


  81.  #81Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Re 78

    This is interesting. Looking back, perhaps even when I was asking for the car, while it may not have been attacking and I perceived myself as being nice, it does seem that I approached it as an attempt to convince. Like I had to convince him I deserved to have it. Like I didn’t even know if I deserved to have it.

    So what’s a better way to ask for something reasonable? Because asking is not the same as feeling.

  82.  #82Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:50 am

    I’m feeling a little judged. I’m feeling like I’ve over-stayed my welcome. I’m feeling misunderstood.

  83.  #83Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Mel was it because of something I posted?

  84.  #84Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Lilybelle/Mel if it is 77 I was a bit hesitant to post that but I thought I should just to raise the level of awareness to share what another coach has said. Remember knowledge is power. Just something to look at and decide what you want to do with it even if it means rejecting it.

  85.  #85R in NC on June 21, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Love love love this post!

    Thought I would check in with you guys, since you have been a tremendous help.

    I am now on day contact. Hard as he!! but I am doing it!!! The site I believe SLV sent me is a tremendous help! I have been on there reading everything I can when I have time.

    Still have the questions flying at me like crazy and I want to email him and just ask them, but I do stop myself because I know it won’t do any good. With nothing coming from him, I am forced to come to my own conclusion.

    I also find myself wondering, what if I am wrong, what if there is some simple explanation and I am overreacting? Then go back over and over all the evidence. Which makes me hurt all over again!!!

    I am going to make it though. I have to show him that he is not worth it, I have boundaries and REFUSE to be used!!

  86.  #86Mel on June 21, 2011 at 7:03 am

    Just feeling a little “written-off” I guess. Mostly it was LonePlum’s post to me and then 77 just added to that feeling. Like maybe I shouldn’t be speaking about this. Then I felt like once again I have no voice. And that felt terrible. And then I was reminded of him telling me that “I’m crazy” and i wondered if others think that as well. That I’m crazy for needing or wanting love and affection. Ugh.

  87.  #87Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 7:10 am

    No dear please don’t take it personally. The intention is to help you see things in context.

    You wrote earlier to Daria that you are seeking help with putting your feelings into FMessages. This here is to help you identify the fact that if you pay attention you will know how you feel and might be able to put it in words yourself “in the moment”. You responded to Loneplum but did not say it. You read 77 that might have pushed you beyond the point of tolerance and niceness so you spoke your feeling.

    My point is that you have already started the process and if you have faith in yourself and just pay a little more attention you can do this. Does this make sense?

    About you being crazy, if that describes a person who wants love in their life and is committed to doing whatever it takes to create that, than guess what?I am crazy too but I don’t give a flying fl—- what anybody thinks. I own that.

  88.  #88Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 7:16 am

    Byy the way Mel, the other day I had to share with someone that “I felt dismissed”. Though it really is not a feeling the person responded by telling me about being tired and dismissing everyone that day. So I ended up feeling it was really not about me.

    I am now feeling a great amount of appreciation and gratitude for Tinque. She constantly says she brings back things to herself when things are off. It was a concept that was foreign to me but now I am slowly finding myself doing that and seeing many instances where it is helpful. It is not easy but for me it puts a different perspective on things.

  89.  #89Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 7:18 am

    Oh Brenda I feel so happy to see things are happening for you. Sometimes we just have to wade through the muck a little longer before we get to the other side. How things continue to become bright for you.

  90.  #90T-Girl on June 21, 2011 at 7:22 am

    @88 FW

    That is such a good point about bringing things back to onself when feeling off. I think since I have been here, that is one of the most helpful things that I have learned. It has brought such peace to me and combated unecessary worries.

  91.  #91Mel on June 21, 2011 at 7:48 am

    “Sometimes we just have to wade through the muck a little longer before we get to the other side”

    This is a good way of looking at it. Brenda, you are doing so great! You’re staying hopeful and positive and I wish you the best!

  92.  #92DE on June 21, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Happy B-day SLV! Best wishes of love, health, and happiness!!!

    Warm hugs,

  93.  #93Mel on June 21, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Happy Birthday SLV! I hope you’re going out dancing! 🙂

  94.  #94Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 7:58 am


    RE: #41 – Thank you! Your words to me are part of what has helped me to relate to Ryan in a healthier, more positive way, along with everyone else’s! This blog has helped me tremendously!!!

  95.  #95Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Kaitlyn (and Daria),

    RE: #47 – 48,

    Kaitlyn, one reason I relate to you a lot is you seem really hard on yourself. I tend to be, and this blog has helped me to give compassion to my weak parts. I will always remember the wonderful volley ball player who helped me feel better about myself.

    I was missing balls left and right, trying my hardest, and he was the star of our team. Each time I missed a ball, he would tap my arm or shoulder and smile, saying, “It’s all right, it’s all right. You’ll get the next one.” I felt humbled at how kind he was to me, when I was in the process of making our team lose. It touched me deeply.

    When I first came on the blog, I sometimes felt irritated the way Daria was constantly correcting me and always had something to say about my words. I felt nit-picked, and yet, now that I have “known” Daria and this blog for over a year, I have studied her words with more objectivity.

    I have realized she has deeply digested Rori’s whole philosophy and is giving me fantastic, deep feedback that few therapists could ever match! So instead of feeling put down by Daria, I have learned to open my spirit to her suggestions and really allow myself to HEAR what she is saying…as a means of tweaking my style with a man.

    I have found much healing through Daria’s many words of wisdom to me. Her goal is not to say, “You fu(cked up again, honey!” Her goal is to help you tweak it for the next round with Adam.

    Now what do you do? Next time you interact with Adam, think deeply and long before responding. No, correction: FEEL deeply and long before responding…and speak from your heart. Open your heart and be totally vulnerable with him…therein is your strength and beauty.

    I wish you the best!

    Love, Brenda

  96.  #96Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Mel I believe these are words of wisdom from Brenda that you and all of us can use also to help ourselves with the feeling messages.

    “Now what do you do? Next time you interact with Adam, think deeply and long before responding. No, correction: FEEL deeply and long before responding…and speak from your heart. Open your heart and be totally vulnerable with him…therein is your strength and beauty.

  97.  #97Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:23 am


    I know it was not your intention to dismiss me. Like you said it’s not even really a feeling. It’s a hard one to pin-point really. Insignificant? Voiceless? Powerless? Not sure. But this is how I’m feeling in my relationship.

    I was triggered by the suggestion that I should maybe not speak about these things with others any more. I try not to involve people in my private life. It took a lot of courage to even share this with my mom, and now I regret doing so because I don’t want her to judge him or worry about me.

    I just feel like this is one of the only places where I don’t have to censor myself. Where I can honestly say what I feel and where I can reflect on things and learn things. Sometimes what I say might be blaming or too “focused on him” but it’s probably better to work through those blamey and angry emotions here and be held accountable for them here than to keep them bottled up.

    I know many times you and others have said things that have really helped me to question my own beliefs and assumptions and to work through the “muck.”

    Also, I wouldn’t say that people here are just taking my “side” and convincing me what a jerk he is. I would say people have been quite impartial for the most part. I don’t come here to be validated. I come here to figure things out. And hopefully, one day, to help others do the same.

  98.  #98Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:25 am

    “Now what do you do? Next time you interact with Adam, think deeply and long before responding. No, correction: FEEL deeply and long before responding…and speak from your heart. Open your heart and be totally vulnerable with him…therein is your strength and beauty.”

    Thanks Brenda (and FW!)

  99.  #99Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:32 am

    RE 97 I understand. I would encourage you though not to think of it as a “suggestion that I should maybe not speak about these things any more” but to put it in a context of a counsellor where you will get to know the person, feel their energy, their vibe and see how they physically react to what you are saying as opposed to people like me who is………who knows? I can also easily disappear.

    The point I took from Loneplum’s comment is to question myself about others experimenting with my life. At the end of the day I am the one living it and I have only me to be accountable for my decisions and I do have the answers inside myself if I pay attention to myself. Even paid counsel now have their own insurance needs, just in case. Hope this makes sense.

  100.  #100Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Mel I know you are hurting and sometimes I feel like being a mother hen and wrap you up in my arms to protect you. But I know you well be stronger and wiser in the long run.

  101.  #101Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:42 am


    “I feel like being a mother hen and wrap you up in my arms to protect you.”

    That’s okay FW, you can do that. I SO need a hug right now!

    I am really a person that thrives on and withers without physical touch. One of the many reasons this past while has been incredibly difficult for me. 🙁

  102.  #102Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:47 am

    More cut and paste

    1. I don’t like being talked to this way. I feel very upset and angry. I want to hear you and i cant do it well when I feel attacked. And I don’t want to tolerate this so I am leaving/going in the other room. That looks like. I don’t like being talked to this way. I feel very upset and angry. I want to hear you and i cant do it well when I feel attacked. And I don’t want to tolerate this so I am leaving.
    This is best done RIGHT AWAY… Without trying to explain or engage first… ( other than the rori scripts if applicable.. Sometimes just skip straight to the leaving)
    Factor #3: All of my relationships support me to be my best me and to live the life I want, or I don’t have them.
    This can be one of the hardest milestones, because it means putting a big stake in the ground for yourself. It requires honoring yourself SO much that you only have relationships in your life – friendships, romantic partners, even relatives – that give respect, trust, unconditional love and truth.

  103.  #103Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:50 am

    I know I’ve been talking awhile and I appreciate you listening.

    6. -“I want to be in a relationship where I don’t
    have to feel like I’m pulling teeth just to talk
    about real issues in our relationship.”

    1. it feels like a lack of connection and i feel like sliding on an ice wall
    . Life without love feels scary, unsafe, it felt like i was always being dismissed… my attempts to feel close…
    1. I feel judged for being me, for being true and open and raw and ugly and messy. Loving all of the features we have — the perfect, the quirky, the downright ugly — is one decision that creates beauty.” I honor myself. I feel confident that honoring me and expressing all my voices is the most honoring thing I can do fort family and humanity.

  104.  #104Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Our behaviour is always the result of our emotions, which is why we do such strange things … most of
    the time. We are reacting from old emotional trauma which has imprinted not only the event but also the reaction. We just keep returning to what was once upon a time a great solution to a traumatic event, yet, as adults, it no longer works.” Never forget that to forgive yourself is to release trapped energy that could be doing good work in the world. Self-prosecution is never noble; it does no one a service

  105.  #105Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:52 am

    1. Because I know now what he is seeking , and by giving less, by holding myself nobly strong yet delicately soft , by allowing him to approach and welcoming him with the power of a glance and the warmth of a smile , by just BEING , that Lady that he seeks I am actually giving him the chance to truly BE the Knight that he is.
    2. “I’m just a girl here and I can’t deal without contact – it makes me feel unloved and unwanted….I don’t know how we can be together without some conflict…I don’t know if that’s possible. Is there some way we can work to resolve conflict more easily so that there isn’t like 2 or 3 days of no communication and anger between us? It would feel so good to be able to make mistakes now and then and somehow work our way through them. It would feel great to feel secured and relaxed that way, so I could love you without feeling afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing…”

  106.  #106Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:54 am

    4. -“I want the kind of relationship where I feel
    loved, and I can tell the man I’m with loves me
    and isn’t afraid to show me.”

    Whenever I feel anger towards someone – usually a family member – as it is the purpose of everyone in my life to get me to face myself, I immediately notice that this is a result of my belief that he is separate from me and that my response to his behaviour is only the opportunity for me to forgive this belief. As quickly as possible I remember that what my ego is presently telling me is that he is separate from me and deserves punishment for his behaviour. What is true is that he is another manifestation of my consciousness and that I (the real me – the extension of my Creator, my Spirit self) created that instant solely for the purpose of reminding me of the truth. I created it all – since it is my dream – I created people and circumstances only for my ultimate benefit. The opportunity is for me to stop my ego from telling me that the way I can save my soul is to project my guilt onto another

  107.  #107Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:56 am

    “I feel so much love in my heart when I see your beautiful
    face” – then EXPRESSING it (without any caring at
    all what happens or what he does after we express
    it) has to be ALL we want. If there’s even a tiny, tiny bit of expecting
    him to do the same – then we’ll push him away.
    He won’t feel our love, he’ll feel PRESSURE.
    He won’t feel our open heart and body and
    passion just ready for him to dive into – he’ll
    feel our expectation.
    He’ll feel that we want something from him.

  108.  #108Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:56 am

    105: Like!

  109.  #109Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 8:58 am

    I just had the solid thought, and it went through my whole body…that I deserved RESPECT. Instead of doing what I always did, which was quickly map out a plan to wait him out, to convince him he WAS ready, to make it all happen, to SALVAGE the relationship I’d so heavily INVESTED in already… instead of moving TOWARD him with my ideas and questions – I mentally and physically STEPPED AWAY FROM HIM.

  110.  #110Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:00 am

    He won’t feel our open heart and body and
    passion just ready for him to dive into – he’ll
    feel our expectation.
    He’ll feel that we want something from him.
    And that feeling of being pushed and pulled
    will send ANY man running for the hills.
    To REVERSE this:
    1. Step BACK.
    I know how hard this is – and yet it WORKS.
    It works – as long as you don’t FAKE it.
    You can’t PRETEND to “Step-Back” – that’s just
    old-fashioned “playing hard-to-get” – and though
    it might work for a day, or even a week, it won’t
    last much more than that.
    A man will pick up right away that you’re just
    playing ‘a game” – and it will make you come
    across even needier and more desperate than before
    – with the ADDED non-attractive quality of him
    thinking you’re dishonest.
    Say, out loud, without saying the word “you” –
    feeling you came up with.
    Say: “I feel bad,” or “I feel Disappointed,” or
    I feel Angry.”
    This looks like: you don’t ASK HIM for
    If he apologizes, say Thank You, and then say:
    “I don’t like feeling bad (or disappointed or
    7. That’s it. You’re done.
    Listen to what he has to say, and don’t DISCUSS
    his excuses.
    Don’t get into ANY discussion.
    8. Now you have to follow your feelings even
    more, because you’re going to have Triggered
    yourself with such amazing, brave, sexy, exciting,
    attractive, UNUSUAL – and totally UNEXPECTED
    Your Nasty Voice is going to kick in.
    9. Feel PROUD. Let the Nasty Voice talk, but
    don’t believe it, don’t do what it says, don’t
    defend yourself against it.
    YOU are in CHARGE.
    Say that OUT LOUD right now for practice – “I’m
    in CHARGE of ME.”
    10. IMMEDIATELY turn away from your man, and
    from the Nasty Voice and go do something fun,
    happy, involving, exciting, useful.

  111.  #111Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:01 am

    1. Feeling messages work better when looking directly into his eyes!

  112.  #112Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:03 am

    I feel warmth toward you and I feel insecure and scared that I’m going to be let down again. So I find myself trying to play it safe. I feel so vulnerable it feels hard to open up… what do you think ?
    Wow, it feels scary and exciting too.
    You know, I’m feeling uncomfortable about something, and I feel really weird talking about it, but it would feel better to just get it out.

  113.  #113Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:04 am

    It’s a “natural tension” and challenge of not having CONTROL and uncertainty that creates strong ATTRACTION in men.

  114.  #114Dorothea on June 21, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Mel, I’m quiet here these days but I’m keeping up with your situation. You are one strong, smart woman. I feel so good about the ways you try to take care of yourself, and I feel great that you can come here.
    Much love!

  115.  #115Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:06 am

    For men, approval-seeking behavior KILLS the spark that comes from the uncertainty of not knowing exactly how the women he’s with is going to think and act.
    You lose respect because you know you can CONTROL him. There’s nothing that triggers more intense “long-term” attraction in a healthy and mature
    man, than a woman who he CAN’T control and doesn’t get thrown off-center when her needs aren’t met.

    Be strong and assertive, but warm and gentle at the same time.

  116.  #116Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Men don’t want to start a thing with us with the purpose to break from us or to string us along. They don’t. Their intention is to find love. Yet they leave. Or string us along
    Because They felt disconnected from us Because We kept our heart shut
    Because We did not trust them which is equivalent to not want them.

  117.  #117Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Meaning – the quality of your emotion, and the way in which you express your emotions is directly how you get more love in your life.
    1. Becoming aware of what you feel
    2. Putting words to what you feel
    3. Expressing what you feel in a way that involves no one but you – and so is totally, 100% safety-making, self-trusting, world and man-trusting, self, world and man honoring…and profoundly moving in the classical, artistic sense.
    The faster you practice it in this structured way, the faster you learn how to do it brilliantly, and the faster you’re able to connect heart-to-heart with any man you choose.

    The trick for us is to get so “aware” of our emotions – the patterns of them, what triggers them, how they morph and change and and shift, and how it feels to not so much “manage” them as “feel” them.
    And as that awareness grows – so does your faith in yourself. In other words – your self-esteem and self-respect can grow powerfully as you become aware of, accept, love and express your emotions on deeper and deeper levels.
    When you speak the word “feel” and use it as a channel to express what you feel – you’re working on “all burneres.”
    And the way to live with negative feelings that pushes a man away is to RESIST them.
    The way to live with negative feelings that BRINGS A MAN CLOSER is to FEEL them.
    For now, try this:
    When you’re feeling “negative,” and you’re afraid your “vibe” will push a man away – notice what you do – notice if you start TALKING (what so many of us women do when we’re uncomfortable).
    Notice if you start all of a sudden getting “cheerful.”
    Notice if you suddenly start trying to make things “okay” in your mind and smile.
    Notice if you move TOWARD him – touch him, talk to him – in an effort to make the “bad” feelings go away.
    And then stop yourself. DON’T DO what you INSTINCTIVELY want to do to feel better.
    There’s a MUCH better way to feel better.
    SINKING IN feels like this: It feels like you just “give up.” You just give up on trying to hold back the feeling.
    Usually – when we stop holding back, all kinds of things happen – most often with results that aren’t what we wanted. It’s like a rubber band you’ve been pulling and pulling apart until it reaches maximum tension and then you let go and SNAP – it flies (and usually hits our man right in the face).
    So try this: instead of “letting go” and letting fly, hang onto yourself in a simple way – don’t DO anything – just give up trying to hold it back. This way, the “rubber band” just returns to its limp, graceful shape without a reaction that creates a whole new set of issues and moments and feelings for you to deal with.
    As you “go limp” and “give up” you’ll feel a whole bunch of things loosen in your body. Your shoulders will drop down, and what might have felt like an iron grip around your heart will lighten up a bit.
    Now, let’s say you – like I was – are stuck in a car, or in a restaurant, or in a room with your man, and you can feel your resistance tightening in your shoulders and in your heart, and you feel like talking to relieve the pressure.
    Step 1 – You notice what’s happening.
    Step 2 – You do NOTHING
    Step 3 – You FEEL whatever feelings you’re feeling, give up trying to hold the feelings back, and sink into them – as though those feelings are your deepest friends (they are).
    Step 4 – Now you use Feeling Messages to communicate with your man, and we’ll talk about that next.

  118.  #118Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Mel hopefully you will find something in those that might help. Below is something from someone who coaches men. Don’t know if you will find any value in it but am posting it below
    “You might tell her that you sometimes sneak behind her back to watch a certain kind of
    pornography that you are afraid she will think is demeaning to women (or even something you feel
    shame around yourself).

    You might tell her that when you fight you sometimes, in the heat of your emotions, entertain
    dark thoughts of leaving her. Obviously none of these things will be pleasant for her to hear. But you will have opened a door to a higher level of TRUST, by GIVING her the trust that she will not react too badly. Now, OF COURSE, things might go badly at this point.

    But if you have framed it correctly, as a matter of your desire to increase love, trust, and the openness between you, then MOST OF THE TIME, you will amazed at how positive the reaction is
    going to be.

    Maybe not right away, but in the long term building of trust between you”.

  119.  #119Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Complaints, by their very nature, are not truth. They are just opinions, or emotions that you feel
    because of opinions. There’s zero truth in them. And if you confuse this, you will not GAIN trust,
    but rather BREAK trust. If you do decide to take this on, I think you will find that doing it right is the FASTEST and most powerful way to earn instant trust from other people. But don’t jump in head first. Start with something very small.

  120.  #120Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:37 am

    RE 81 How about wants and don’t want.

    I want to be able to ……………. otherwise I will feel like a bird (animal) trapped in a cage and I don’t want to feel that way.

  121.  #121Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Maybe a aha moment for me here

    Mentally and physically stepping away from him but with heart open and warm. Feels darn hard and maybe what letting go of control is. Almost like I am failing myself or giving up on myself.

  122.  #122Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 10:13 am

    I am battling a raging ear infection. The kind where the doc says “Whoa, it’s been a while since I’ve seen one like that; how are you not screaming”?

    Truth is, I feel like screaming and crying. The antibiotics are slow to act so I feel tired and well, I am tired since it kept me awake for the last two – three nights.

    And, it is so, SO gross.


  123.  #123Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 10:18 am

    RE 122 Can I encourage you to eat yogurt. The antibiotic can also kill good bacteria and cause UTI.

  124.  #124Mel on June 21, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Ugh. Poor Lilybelle!

  125.  #125Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 10:24 am


    They are ear drop antibiotics. Yogurt? Not if I was starving to death. 😉

    Mostly, I want to curl up in a ball and go to sleep. Have soooo much to do with the move coming up this weekend…

  126.  #126Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 10:26 am

    @86: Mel says:
    “… And then I was reminded of him telling me that “I’m crazy” and i wondered if others think that as well. That I’m crazy for needing or wanting love and affection. Ugh….”

    I’m not speaking for LonePlum but I saw her list as a resource for qualified assistance.

    Mel, IMHO, If that’s what your husband said to you…”Crazy” “Insecure” “Negative” and other words are what people often toss at someone when they aren’t getting their way. My husband didn’t call me crazy but said something “must be wrong” with me if I wasn’t happy in our marriage… because HE was happy. So there was nothing wrong with him. Ok, what I just wrote about my husband sounds so funny for me to read now… hahaha 😆

    Shall I say it? No, Mel you are not “crazy.”


  127.  #127Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 10:26 am


    Awww, thanks Mel.

    My energy is low, low, low today. Know that I am thinking about you though.


  128.  #128Mel on June 21, 2011 at 10:29 am

    “”Crazy” “Insecure” “Negative” and other words are what people often toss at someone when they aren’t getting their way. My husband didn’t call me crazy but said something “must be wrong” with me if I wasn’t happy in our marriage… because HE was happy.”

    That’s exactly it SLV. Any time I attempted to express how I was feeling disconnected, like I had lost him, he’d just deny anything was wrong and say I was crazy, making it all up. This feels horrible because it’s like he’s dismissing my feelings. Saying that I shouldn’t WANT attention, or maybe that I don’t deserve it or something.

  129.  #129Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 10:33 am

    @122: Lilybelle

    I hope you are feeling better…


  130.  #130Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 10:48 am

    @DE @kaitlyn @Mel @Lily T. @ all Rori blog

    Thanks for all your well wishes. It feels yummy. This year’s birthday was rather quiet, not like last year which was sort of a milestone and I had party with fancy this and that, dinner served in restaurant, and wrapped gifts, video made for me, cards, phone calls and e-mails.

    This year…. less. 😆
    Just a small family dinner. And no I didn’t go out dancing but I did come home and listen to some music. And now I’m doing a little something for myself everyday.

    I’ve learned not to depend upon someone else for celebration and happiness because I can’t control how it will go. I’ve mentioned before how I plan some treats for myself so I will have things to look forward to and enjoy no matter what. I’ll keep doing that.

    And getting greetings from here on the blog is so special. I feel breezy and cozy, like a day at the beach or walking around smiling at a garden party. 😀

    Thank you everyone… 😀


  131.  #132Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 11:21 am

    101: Mel says:

    I am really a person that thrives on and withers without physical touch. One of the many reasons this past while has been incredibly difficult for me.


    Mel, first I want to say that I was not judging you for going off on him. I was trying to point out that doing so could explain his comment being a defensive gesture. Or more correctly, going on offense instead of defense. Both men and women do this at times in heated situations. It’s an attempt to feel in control of the situation. Most people do feel some level of need to be in control.

    As to the need for touch, I am right there with you. I think the need for touch is a very personal thing and everybody’s need is different. Some people need a lot, some need very little. I have long felt that to have a happy relationship, you had to find somebody that had a similar need for physical touch. I just don’t see how it can work if one person needs very little and one person needs a lot. The person who needs a lot will feel neglected and shunned while the person who needs very little will feel like the other person is smothering them.

    One last ting I wanted to point out though, and this is to everybody…I once heard a therapist state that “We are all the main, central character in our own personal little soap opera. Everybody else is just supporting cast. The key is to remember that they do not see themselves as supporting cast in your soap opera, you are supporting cast in theirs. By understanding and accepting this, we will be less disappointed when they don’t follow the script we write.”

    The point being that you aren’t always going to get what you want from other people, even those closest from you.

    So imagine the scenario above in one of FW’s post. The woman gets on to the man for not mowing the lawn. She is frustrated because he isn’t following the script she has, and he is frustrated because she isn’t playing by the script he has.

    Her script says that his job is to cater to her every whim. His job is to do for her. In his script, he is the king of his castle and he will get to the lawn when HE feels like it, and this weekend, he doesn’t feel like it. In his script, she isn’t a nagging hag.

    In the end, both feel let down. Both find more distance growing between them as a result.

    I know a man who has a very good relationship with his wife. he told me about an agreement that they had. One person would set up the Christmas tree after Thanksgiving, and the other would take the tree down New Years Day. The next year they swap. Well this one year it was his turn to set it up and he did. New Years Day, she didn’t take the tree down. He asked her the next morning if she was going to get to the tree that day. She said she might. A week later it was still up. SO he had a choice. He could make a stink about it, or he could take it down himself. He said he thought about it and realized that obviously taking the tree down was not a big concern for her, but it was for him. So since it was more important to him, he should just take it down. So he did.

    he also said that since it was more important to him, and it was his choice to do so, he had no moral right to make an issue of it. In other words, this wasn’t something he could use as ammo in some future argument, ala, “Yeah, well you didn’t take the Christmas Tree down, I had to do it.”

    He said that this is how you keep a happy marriage. You don’t sweat the small stuff and you don’t take everything as a trespass upon you, or an injury to you, or a sign of lack of caring.

    He said that the simple fact is, it wasn’t important to her to take the tree down, which means nothing in their relationship. It has nothing whatsoever to do with their relationship. It could mean many things, but nothing about their relationship. Maybe for some reason she was feeling sentimental about that Christmas and taking the tree down was symbolic of closing the book on those feelings. Or maybe she just felt tired, exhausted, etc… and just didn’t feel the energy to do it. Other things were occupying her mind. HE said, “It doesn’t even matter why. All that matters is that it wasn’t important to her at the time, it was for me, so I took responsibility for my own feelings and took the tree down. End of story.”

    I heard somebody else state that it is not healthy in a relationship when you start trying to act like his boss, or mom. I would go one step further. The relationship is going to eventually fail.

    Think about this. What if you lived with a man who was very particular about what he wanted. Think of that movie “Sleeping with the Enemy” with Julia Roberts where she faked her own death to escape a very controlling husband. Remember how he was very very particular about how the cans had to be in the cupboards, how the towels were to be hung, etc…

    I wonder how many women realize that on some level, they are that husband? Not very many I would guess. But the moment you start trying to “Fix him” or set his daily agenda, etc… you are starting down the road to being that husband. You are determining what he must do and how he must act. Your relationship is doomed.

  132.  #133FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Lilybelle, FW is right. The anti-biotics kill all the bacteria—like the one that keeps us from getting yeast infections. If you don’t like yogurt you can get acidophilus in capsules at the drug store for about $6.00 (or anywhere they sell supplements.)

    I usually take one with each does of anti-biotic (keeps me from having digestive troubles (the runs) and keeps the right ph balance so yeast can’t grow.)

    I get sinus and ear infections about twice a year and I know how bad it feels 🙁 (((hugs)))

  133.  #134Mel on June 21, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Ok… advice please

    I was maybe going to go home from work w/ my husband today. I still haven’t heard from him.

    I don’t think I want to say “since you didn’t call, I’m going to go home with ____” because that’ll probably get his back up, even though that IS why i’m looking for another ride.

    Should I just say “I’m going home with ____ today.” end of story?

    I feel stupid for having to ask. Like I don’t even know how to talk to him anymore.

  134.  #135FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 11:37 am

    I haven’t gotten through all the posts, but Happy Birthday SLV.! 🙂

    I LOVE your idea about doing your own birthday thing and getting yourself little gifts….making sure you have things to look forward to <3

  135.  #136FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Thank you Mel for the link. I just signed up for some free information/lessons.

    Could you txt or call and ask him: “Are we going home together (or Are you picking me up), or should I find a ride?”

    This sounds ridiculous as I type it—like why should you even have to worry about this, but it’s the most direct/least triggering thing I can think of to say.


  136.  #137FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Unless, because he didn’t let you know, you just find a ride. (Kind of like if a guy doesn’t call to confirm a date and time for a date and we make other plans.)

    I’m not sure if I’m thinking of this in the right way…

  137.  #138thirtyseven on June 21, 2011 at 11:56 am

    mel i want you to know ive also been following your story and it really resonates with me.

    the fight i had with bf last week where i tried to stay in feeling messages, telling him that i felt disrespected by his exes lack of boundaries and i felt hurt that he still spends so much time with her, its hard to handle feeling like maybe he hasnt yet moved on…… i.e. i need to be the ONLY woman in my mans life not just physically but also emotionally……. that is my boundary and im sticking to it. anyway, i got called “crazy” too for feeling that way. i’ve been told by him for months now that the way i feel about it the situation is unwarranted and it hurts. and i got called “a little nutty”, “negative”, and “insecure”. i cant stand the thought of my feelings being dismissed, and his hiding his contact with her so as not to upset me really just made matters much, much worse!

    so it must just be something men resort to when they feel helpless, or at almost an end – not having any immediate solution. i know im not crazy, and im sure you arent either.

    it kind of breaks my heart to read all these stories here, we are all trying to hard to find ways to make our relationships strong and HEALTHY and just trying to grow and respect ourselves above all else. and i see all these men taking it all for granted and doing whatever they want, whenever they want, anyway. regardless of how it makes the woman they love, feel. it feels so depressing.

  138.  #139Mel on June 21, 2011 at 11:59 am

    That’s what I was thinking. Haven’t heard from him, so I’m taking care of myself.

    Therefore just “I’m getting a ride with ______”

    Because if I don’t let my friend know in the next 1/2 hr. I might be stuck with no ride or waiting until some terrible hour for him.

  139.  #140Mel on June 21, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Thanks thirtyseven!

    Honestly, I’m coming to think that it’s all just a negative feedback loop. Spinning and spinning in circles, feeding off of each others’ reactions. Since I am actually becoming aware of this pattern, I can choose to step out of the circle. The cycle will stop because there is nothing to feed it any more. Then… either of two things will happen:
    1. He comes into his own awareness and changes his behavior too and the relationship improves
    2. Nothing changes, but because I am no longer spinning I can see more clearly which direction is best to walk away.

  140.  #141FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    >>> “I’m just a girl here and I can’t deal without contact – it makes me feel unloved and unwanted….I don’t know how we can be together without some conflict…I don’t know if that’s possible. Is there some way we can work to resolve conflict more easily so that there isn’t like 2 or 3 days of no communication and anger between us? It would feel so good to be able to make mistakes now and then and somehow work our way through them. It would feel great to feel secured and relaxed that way, so I could love you without feeling afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing…”<<<

    #105/FW WOW! I love this. Thank you for posting this. <3

  141.  #142Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Now I know that the panic over another disconnecting from me was coming from my own disconnection from myself.

    I used to disconnect from myself right at the beginning of a relationship, making his feelings more important than my own. I would put my own feelings – my inner child – in a closet, and instead take care of his inner child. My hope was that if he felt loved enough by me, he would take my inner child out of the closet and love her. I was abandoning myself by caretaking him, hoping to get the love from him that I had no idea how to give to myself.

    Because I didn’t know how to love myself, I was emotionally dependent on my guy to feel lovable and worthy. Hence, the panic when he would leave – taking my whole sense of self-worth with him.

    The question asked is: What is the best thing to do in this situation?

    The Best Thing to Do

    The best thing is to let go and take loving care of yourself. But this is easier said than done.

    There are a number of things I had to learn before I could to the best thing for myself:

    I had to accept that I had no control over how he felt about me, no matter how much I chased him, or how wonderful I tried to be. I recently read this on another site (
    Codependent’s Serenity Prayer

    God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change,

    the courage to change the one I can,

    and the wisdom to know it’s me.

    ~Author Unknown

    I had to learn how to take 100% responsibility for my own feelings of worth and safety, joy and pain. And before I could learn this, I had to accept that my feelings were, in fact, my responsibility and not someone else’s.

  142.  #143Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    RE 131 oops just reposted but it went to moderation

  143.  #144Turtle Girl on June 21, 2011 at 12:20 pm


    Sigh. I so relate to your story.

    What breaks my heart here is not only reading all our stories and seeing how similar they all are and how frustrating is all is to be in these situations, but to
    feel like we as women are trying waaaayyyy to hard to please the man.

    When everything we do is centered around walking on eggs or else he will call us crazy or dismiss our feelings, or tell us we are insecure.

    Well hell yeah we feel all those things because the man’s behavior often triggers all those feelings.

    The goal for me, the place I want to get to is to be so self respecting and honoring of ME, that nothing he says or does triggers me a big.

    For example when he told me I was basically a secret to his family. Ok. That triggered all sorts of feelings of being unimportant and unloved. I want the man who professes to love me to be proud of me and proclaim that to everyone, not keep me a secret.

    So instead of getting mad or hurt, I have to realize I have boundaries. Period. I will not be with a man who makes the choice to keep me hidden. It is clear he values the feelings of his ex wife more than he values my feelings. So there it is. So be it. No triggering. No trying to convince him he should tell his family about me. No. Just realize how this makes me feel and say OK. Then make a decision to move and step away from him. If he can not or will not honor my feelings, then there is not much else to do or say is there?
    He is doing whatever it is he is doing.

    So I am willing to pay the price by staying with him and letting him treat me as if I am second class, the
    woman on layaway, or the one he keeps secret. No I am not willing to do that, regardless of how much it hurts to think of ending this relationship.

    I try and think about how I would feel if I stayed. Oh!!!
    Much worse than I feel now. I would feel horrible and like I disrespected me and invalidated my own feelings in the matter. I HAVE to honor myself first.
    Or else how can he? He may still chose to leave but that has everything to do with who he is and not me.
    He has a history of cheating, so this could just be how he treats women. So I am saying No to this.

    If he still cares for his ex and has unresolved issues that get in the way of our relationship, I can not fix those. No amount of talking will. No amount of stating my feelings will. I can only feel my feelings. Stick to my boundaries and go forward. What he does is up to him. Sigh.

    Man, some days this just ain’t easy or simple.

  144.  #145Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    RE 140 BINGO

  145.  #146thirtyseven on June 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    its funny that you mention “he comes to his own awareness” because i stepped away from bf last tuesday. he has texted or called me every day to tell me how crappy he feels and that he misses me. he should!! he feels like he messed everything up and he wants me but he never thought he would have actually to choose between me & her. of course it was never an issue of *choosing* it was a matter of setting appropriate boundaries waaaaaaaay back in october that still have not been set…………

    he did call me the other night telling me that he had thought about it, and he must be doing something wrong, almost like he doesnt understand whats right from whats wrong. he said our situation reminds him of his old ex, they were together for 16 years and she always had this bad taste in her mouth for his one friend, A. he and A. worked together & were good friends (they still are today), and even though A. knew he was in a committed relationship, she would try sometimes to hook up with him and even several times offered him *bjs* in the car (which he refused). the point is, his then girlfriend had a huge issue with A. becasue she knew/sensed what was going on and was uncomfortable with it but could not realistically separate them as friends. he always told me how much she hated A., how she was jealous of A., how it was “unfounded”, and i said, well now looking back cant you see why and empathize with how she was feeling??? the first time A. offered you a bj she was being disrespectful of your realtionship and you not only allowed her to be disrespectful but continued your friendship with her EVEN THOUGH you knew it hurt your girlfriend. it was that story that made me able to walk away……. because it doesnt matter how much he loves me. i know that this issue will not change until he decides to make a change.

    he keeps saying he wants to still be together and i really dont know what to say. i cant tell him what to do and i cant give an ultimatum.

    but can i take him back if, after being alone for a few weeks he looks into himself and SURPRISES me by coming back and saying that he will respect my feelings above anything else going forward?? how do second chances work on siren island???

  146.  #147Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    RE 137 FC I don’t know either but under the circumstances I would do that. He might very well be absorbed in work and forget.

  147.  #148turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Ack!!! Quick.. I need a feeling message sirens!

    Mike is feeling very blah lately. He’s living at home, unemployed and has diabetes, which has been difficult lately. I want to say something understanding and encouraging to him. I like what Brenda wrote above about jobs coming and going, but it being the person he is inside who matters. I’ve never dealt much with depression… any suggestions?

    He’s a very caring and kind person who does a lot of volunteer work, helps his family quite a bit… he’s a good person that is just struggling right now.

    I told him it didn’t feel like he had the time or energy for us right now. He said he was sorry it seemed that way… he’s not had some good days lately.

    Now what should I say?

  148.  #149Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    RE 134 “I feel stupid” is just your nasty voice not a feeling. Yayyy for noticing your thoughts that can be changed. Focus instead on your inner voice which is usually in the mid section of your body.

  149.  #150Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Turquoise – hmm…a feeling message is not something to ‘give’ to him as encouragement

    How ARE you feeling first off? Then we can use that…

    Guess: ‘I miss you… I feel a bit concerned about you?’

  150.  #151Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    The four rules are about : don’t get in his business

    Don’t tell him what to do

    Don’t warn, coax, beg, advise, ask the innocent question

    Respect his time – don’t approach him when he’s busy, make appointments

  151.  #152Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    RE 148 I understand but I feel drained of energy sometimes

  152.  #153Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Mel – how about just going home without texting him

    It’s like when we have a planned date and the man doesn’t confirm , we do something else without telling him

    if he gets angry after – that is a Good thing ! – anger has to be facilitated

  153.  #154Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Yah like flowerchild said !

  154.  #155Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Happybirthday Slv!

  155.  #156turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Daria, I didn’t get the response fast enough, but was thinking along those lines. I just said,

    If you’d like to talk about it, I’m a good listener.

    He replied and asked if I was busy tonight. He has school orientation and could come over after. I said ok.

  156.  #157turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    He just replied cool. I replied, I feel concerned. Glad you can come.

    Thanks Daria!

  157.  #158Daria on June 21, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Turtle girl – I noticed this and thunk this is where you’re (understandably) shooting urself in the foot

    ‘It is clear he values the feelings of his ex wife more than he values my feelings.’

    It’s actually NOT clear.

    If you could stick to what is happening and to your ferlings, and not let nvs such as this attribute ‘meaning’ to what you notice, it will be easier to navigate through this.

    You felt bad about him nit telling her. It doesn’t mean that, though. That’s what you Think it means and it’s gona actually keep u stuck in thus energy because it’s not true.

    If we step back some, out of meaning, out of his head,

    And just go with…

    I felt awful. I don’t want to date a man and be kept hidden. I’m feeling angry and insecure.

    Then he has full open court to turn this situation around

  158.  #159Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Aww Brenda 🙂

    Thank u I feel moved!

    I’m giving deep wisdom with the delivery of a toddler !

    How’s that for hard on myself! Aha! I found a hard on me voice! Yay! 🙂

  159.  #160thirtyseven on June 21, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    turtlegirl – 143 – i am in the exact same situation. as of the weekend, enough was enough. when he called last night saying he was feeling bad i replied with, i feel ok. i’m sad, but i feel good becasue i just got back from an hour & a half long walk and i splurged on 84. sneakers yesterday so i keep walking nightly. i made a point to tell him that i feel hurt and disappointed but all i can focus on is taking the very best care of myself right now that i possibly can. he seemed surprised and scared. he said, im afraid this “break” is going to turn into a “breakup”.

    it might sound stupid but its leaps and bounds away from where i would have been in the past, crying and begging him to change and trying to negotiate some solution. its baby steps and im still learning, but its the best i can do & i feel strong.

  160.  #161Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Mel – you’re doing gray with the insights!

    Yes, the thing is to NOT cave. You Want him to get angry… So you can facilitate the anger getting out and heal the relationship.

    So u can just say: ‘I don’t want to be left here without the car’

    He says : ‘ fine then I’ll hithhike’

    You can say : ‘wow that feels bad to hear… ‘

    He says : some angry stuff

    U say : ‘wow! I hear your anger! Thank you for sharing with me’

    He says : more anger

    You say : ‘wow you’re right. I feel so glad to talk about this. I want to be able to hear when you’re angry’

    The whole time, you’re leaning back, releasing your shoulders, tummy, vagina, open heart he can reach into
    Repeatedly releasing these places and breathing into them. You’re listening at level 2 and 3

    *** caveat: if he attacks you and you feel bad, you say ‘wow I feel so glad to hear you. And I’m feeling defensive I feel shut down. I don’t want to feel like that so I’m gona go now… It would feel great to talk about this another time I really want to hear you when you’re angry’

    In other words, don’t tolerate abuse. But listen without judgement and agree with him – own what he says your part is even if first thought is defense –

  161.  #162Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Man : ‘I don’t really care how you feel ‘

    Woman : ‘ohh.hhh… That feels bad… Are you mad at me?’

    Facilitates anger.

  162.  #163Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Mel – can you email me so we can practice over the phone? That could help a lot

  163.  #164Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    152: Daria says:

    Mel – how about just going home without texting him

    It’s like when we have a planned date and the man doesn’t confirm , we do something else without telling him

    if he gets angry after – that is a Good thing ! – anger has to be facilitated


    I’ll have to disagree here. I for one don’t have any info on what is going on here. Is it standard that he pick her up? Was it stated earlier that he would pick her up but now she is unsure if he is still going to?

    I totally understand given the situation that she needs more reassurance. However, if the situation is that it has been understood before that he was picking her up, and she just gets a ride home, and he shows up to pick her up and she’s not there, then he of course has a right to be upset.

    Think like a guy for a second here. If I tell my wife on Friday that I will pick her up from work on Monday, but we have a big blowup on Saturday and don’t talk much on Sunday, that does not mean I am not picking her up on Monday. The last plans made were that I would pick her up. If she alters those plans, it is up to her to text me, email me, call me, whatever.

    I would not be happy to get there and find out that she just left and I drove out of my way, maybe even waited in the parking lot for a half hour for her to come out, as per usual…etc…

    I am not saying that she shouldn’t make other plans if she feels safer and more comfortable doing so. But by giving him a text, she removes any moral ground he has to be angry.

    She should just say, “Hey, wanted to give you a courtesy note that I “Sue” volunteered to give me a ride home today since she is going in that direction already. See you when you get home.”

    You don’t repair relationships by keeping score nor do you repair them by acting selfish or like you have some high moral ground to act differently than you would want to be treated. The question being, would you want to get their only to find out your man left without giving you a text at a minimum, as a heads up?

  164.  #165Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Kaitlyn – no problem, minor minor

    However, I think you’re locked in a death struggle w a relationship that just won’t be… Because he’s not in a step up mode right now

    I’d circular date dear, really and try and at least bring in more cute men

  165.  #166Daria on June 21, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    So as you see Rusty would be upset which is Great in your case Mel because it would facilitate anger…

    Which is what rely needs to happen here… The anger needs to be let out

  166.  #167Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    RE 166 Agree. I am wondering if it could trigger memory and discussion around where the disconnect initially began.

  167.  #168turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Ok, so Mike is coming over tonight to hang out.. tell me what’s going on with him. I will lean back and listen… but I have needs too, and would like to voice them. He’s been distant lately, I’m not getting my good morning texts, etc. I don’t need to give the no girlfriend speech because he hasn’t asked me. Do I need to even bring up that I’m looking for more than he’s giving? Or do I just continue to cd and if he steps up, then consider it and have the conversation where I say I don’t want to be a girlfriend, looking for more? I’m ready to give up on dating all together, so not sure what would be best in this situation. Plus, he’s not in step up mode right now either. His main goal is to find a job. Until that happens, can’t imagine things getting too serious with us. Suggestions?

  168.  #169Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    It’s funny to hear women say that they will only deal with a man who has only one woman in his life.

    I have had many girlfriends, who to create a “safe place” for themselves in my life, seek to wreck every single relationship I have with any other women. First and foremost, and women friends. Yes, they are a very big threat, aren’t they? Next of course comes mom, and or sisters, aunts, etc… but especially mom…because we can’t have mom interfering and running the show.

    I have had situations where a woman friend called my house shortly after having a woman move in with me and each of these women would tell me that they called to talk, and got read the riot act by this woman who answered the phone. This woman basically interrogated them, wanting to know the depth and nature of the relationship, had we ever dated, slept together, etc… No matter the answers, they were all told the same thing…don’t call anymore, he’s taken.

    Now what’s funny, is though this kind of thing happened a lot, and not just to me, many friends told similar stories…every single woman would accuse me of being crazy, controlling, etc… if I even attempted to tell her what she could or couldn’t do with respect to their relationships with guy friends.

    Many times when I was talking to a couple of my friends, their girlfriends would suddenly ask “who is this?” Turns out that they would grab the phone out of their hands and ask to verify that he wasn’t talking to a girl.

    I can see it now. “Well…Dr. Phil, he won’t even allow me to talk to any of my old friends who are guys. He asks who I’m on the phone with every time I’m talking to somebody. He embarrassed me in front of my friends by telling my guy friends not to call anymore, etc..” yeah, the guy will be labeled a controlling pig.

    I however don’t agree with a man hiding a woman from his family. Grow a pair and deal with life. That’s what I would tell him. People don’t love you if they can’t support you.

    I can appreciate that it is a touchy situation since he and the ex were appearing to be getting back together. In this case, it would be prudent for the man to sit down with his kids and explain that it just isn’t going to happen. Let then stew on that for awhile, and then let them know that they have no more right to dictate his life than he does to dictate theirs. For instance, if one is seeing a guy, he could say, “Would you stop seeing your guy if I got all huffy and told you I didn’t want you to see him anymore?” I would explain to them that relationships are for the two people to work out and that those ho love them will support their decisions.

    This clears the ay for him to let them know that he met somebody he really cares about. And that she deserves to be treated fairly, for the nice person she is.

    A diplomatic man could present them with situations where maybe she starts seeing a guy, but it turns out that he used to see his sister’s best friend. He could ask her, how would it make her feel if this sister was very mean and rude to her, no matter how nice she tried to be to his sister? Ask her if she would be nervous about meeting her if she knew ahead of time that he used to date her best friend?

    Not an easy situation to be put in for you. He does need to make a choice. There is never a right time to talk about these things. There IS a right way to do so however. Seems he isn’t equipped to do so. His personality type detests any form of controversy.

    I like being an ENTJ. We don’t care about controversy. We don’t seek to create it but we don’t worry about it either.

  169.  #170turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Happy Birthday SLV!!!! 🙂

  170.  #171Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    RE 168 I was going to say don’t bring up any conversation about the relationship but I am also wondering what does the morning texts mean to you? Do you need them to feed the chemistry?

  171.  #172turquoise3 on June 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    It makes me feel more connected. To know he’s thinking about me. Was a nice way to start me day.

  172.  #173Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    @154: Daria says:
    “..Happybirthday Slv!…”



  173.  #174Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 2:04 pm


    Awww, thank you FlowerChild. Means a lot to me. 🙂

  174.  #175Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    RE 172 I would connect that with he’s not in step up mode right now and ask myself if this is a relationship that will just not be because I know he can’t give me what I want? With that in mind I would only share to experiment with using feeling messages to see how it affects me bearing in mind that feeling messages are really for people you want to bring closer to you.

    I also believe your FM in 172 would be authentic

  175.  #176FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    #140/Mel This is what I am working toward. It may take awhile, but it’s my goal. Baby-steps.

    And ?143/TG–again, I am so inspired at how simple you make this. (I don’t mean, in any way, that I think this is easy to do or that it isn’t hurting you like he!!.) I just mean that you’ve cleared away all the “side-shows” (excuses, reasons, blame, anger, etc.) that distract us from focusing on ourselves–and taken it down to the only thing we have any control over, which is ourselves.

    This is going to help me, immensely, with my boundaries and my tendency to be a “crumb-taker.”

  176.  #177Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm


    I’m all out of order but what they hey…

    Thank you, SLV. 🙂

    I HAVE to get better, Saturday starts my new life!!

    Moving day and you know what this means to me. I get to pick the keys up tomorrow and really, have until the 30th to get it all done! Whooo Hoooo..

    It feels so wonderful to know that I don’t “have” to be all done Saturday, even if that is what I prefer. I’m on vacation next week so no real pressure…

  177.  #178Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    @169: turquoise3


  178.  #179Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    165: Daria says:

    So as you see Rusty would be upset which is Great in your case Mel because it would facilitate anger…

    Which is what rely needs to happen here… The anger needs to be let out


    Not true. Sorry but no. This couple needs to get into counseling, not create more drama. What they need right now is less drama, more counseling.

    I can tell you that if I were him, and my last understanding was that I was picking her up, that is what I am doing. If she makes other plans and doesn’t let me know, then she is wrong. Period. I would have the high moral ground to stand on when I stand there and tell her that allowing me to drive there, and sit in the parking lot for a half hour waiting for her to come out, was rude. It is rude. It is not the way a couple should act.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right either. An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth a limb for a limb will not help heal a relationship.

    Logic…use logic, not feelings here. If she is afraid of being stranded, she has every right to make other plans. But it is also right for her to make him aware of those plans, so that he doesn’t show up at her work to find her gone.

    Nothing positive at all comes from simply creating more drama. This couple needs to learn to communicate better. Not create more bad blood.

    And again, Mel often tells something like this, then after our posts, we get a clearer picture as she fills in some pertinent details.

    Like I said, what is the arrangement here? She says she was thinking of maybe going home with him. That isn’t telling me much. What does that mean? This is the kind of thing that caused me to take control when people gave instructions to get someplace. I no longer accept vague instructions. It caused too much hate and discontent. SO I took control. I let my wife know that I would never use “Turn left at the McDonalds” directions. I want an address, and I want turn by turn directions. Thank the lord for Google maps. Now all I need is the address and the rest is just to verify I got the right address when google gives me my turn by turn.

    Anyway, I need to know what the agreement was. Was it agreed upon that he was going to pick her up? If so, a text is required. Was it agreed that he might pick her up? Then a text is still required, a courtesy at the least.

    Was it a case where the agreement was made before this last weekend’s blowups? In that case, the agreement still stands unless otherwise stated. If it is simply Mel’s worry that he isn’t going to pick her up as per the agreement, then she should get the ride, and text.

    This solves the problem logically and with the least amount of blood being spilled. She takes care of her needs, but does not set up a situation where he can say, “But the agreement was that i would pick you up. I honored that and was there, but you weren’t and you didn’t have the courtesy to text me saying I would.

    If I set a date with a woman, if I say, I will be at your house on Friday at 6:00pm t pick you up, and the reservations are at 7:00, I expect you to be there and ready to go, or close to it. I may or may not call beforehand. If I can’t make it, I will call as soon as I know I can’t. If I don’t call, the understanding should be that I am still coming or I’m dead…or the boss has me locked in a meeting and I can’t make it. In which case the secretary should be able to relay a message, even if just to say that I am delayed.

    Life happens, but I do what i say I am going to do. If I say on Wednesday that I will be there Friday night to pick you up, I am not obligated to “confirm.” My confirmation was that I am a man of my word and I said I will be there unless something comes up. If it does, I will make every effort to let you know as soon as possible.

    I can tell you that a relationship wouldn’t last long if I did get delayed, but showed up a half hour late to find the woman not home. Life happens. Things aren’t always perfect, but what that would signify to me is that all she really cared about was going out. I was just the facilitating factor. It was more important to her to go out than it was to wait for me.

    Now of course in the age of cell phones, this is less likely to happen. It can happen though. You lose your cell phone, forget it as you are running out the door to get to that important meeting today, etc.. Or it goes dead at an inopportune time. The power cord in the car isn’t working. Boss won’t let you even send a short text because the client is sitting right there and you are the one giving the presentation, etc… Life happens.

    If it was the first time…I would not be understanding of her just leaving. I mean if I call a half hour late and she’s not understanding. Acts all tough and says that’s OK, she’s made other plans, and then tells me to reschedule. I would say, no thanks.

    If this kind of thing happens, maybe not too frequently, but does happen, but I am always there, just not on time because of the job, then she needs to accept that as part of the package.

    If I am constantly making plans and then not showing up, no call, no nothing…then that is a different story. But then, why even make a date with somebody who has done this several times…right?

  179.  #180Lily T. on June 21, 2011 at 2:15 pm


    Do you want to bring him closer to you? Do you think there is really relationship potential there if he were to get a new job?

  180.  #181thirtyseven on June 21, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    168: Rusty says:
    It’s funny to hear women say that they will only deal with a man who has only one woman in his life.

    there is a world of difference between being a general raging jealous nutter and checking up on his phone conversations while trying to cut every female out of his life…….. from feeling bothered by his last live in girlfriend and the affection you have to witness between them. please!

    i feel confused, because a few days ago you were saying that the behavior sounded inappropriate and his actions made it seem that his relationship with her was more important than my feelings. but now to read that post i feel accused on being on a slippery slope of cutting out everyone in his life including his mother (when really i get along with her and encourage his realtionship with her). im confused./

  181.  #182Senior Lady Vibe on June 21, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    @176: Lilybelle says:
    “…Saturday starts my new life!!
    Moving day and you know what this means to me. I get to pick the keys up tomorrow and really, have until the 30th to get it all done! Whooo Hoooo..,,”

    Woo hoo! That’s exciting. I’m getting a little domestic too and doing some things that were meant to be done just about a year ago. Today I was shopping and looking at bedding sets. Gee, those things can get EXPENSIVE!!! I saw a neat set not as girly as what I have now… suitable for “Sweetie space” I think, kind of an Oriental motif, fern type leaves but not blossomy…

    But then I saw …. Dry Clean only. Oops. This would not work. I need washable comforter and shams as well as sheets. So back to the drawing board…. I hope your “domestic challenges” are easy.


  182.  #183Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    I have never gotten answer from women as to why they think it is OK for them to dictate a man’s friendships with other women, but it is not OK for the man to do the same? I have always seen a double standard here. I was always told in practically the same breath that if I loved her, I would not continue these friendships. But I also have to trust her when she says that these guys are just friends. And of course at that point I am reminded that trust is necessary in a relationship. 😕

  183.  #184Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 2:30 pm


    Dry clean only doesn’t work for me either, especially with how often I launder. Bedding is my downfall. I LOVE it and have about six different duvets and coordinates to match. So fun to switch them out..

    I’m mixing up the masculine stuff with the feminine stuff this time. It’s interesting to be more aware of that now..

  184.  #185Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    180: thirtyseven says:

    168: Rusty says:
    It’s funny to hear women say that they will only deal with a man who has only one woman in his life.

    there is a world of difference between being a general raging jealous nutter and checking up on his phone conversations while trying to cut every female out of his life…….. from feeling bothered by his last live in girlfriend and the affection you have to witness between them. please!

    i feel confused, because a few days ago you were saying that the behavior sounded inappropriate and his actions made it seem that his relationship with her was more important than my feelings. but now to read that post i feel accused on being on a slippery slope of cutting out everyone in his life including his mother (when really i get along with her and encourage his realtionship with her). im confused./


    That post wasn’t directed at you. Also, I believe you will see at the bottom of that post that I said he needed to grow a pair and tell the family about you. That he shouldn’t be trying to hide you from the family. At the very least, he should be taking proactive steps to grease the skids, as I pointed out in that post.

    This post was in general to a lot of comments where this topic has come up.

    It goes to what I just said above. I’ve always noticed a double standard with many women I have dated and known.

    It’s OK for them to go to the club with friends, it’s not Ok for the guy to do so.

    It’s OK for them to go on a lunch date with two guys from the office, it’s not OK for him to do so. If one of the guys leaves early and she is seen by my friend leaving the place with one guy, I am supposed to just trust her. In reverse, I am clearly cheating and all of her friends and family agrees with her that something is up. Oh yeah…she told everybody that I am a lying cheating scumbag…even my family. I wonder if she would be so understanding if I had called all my friends, family and her family? etc..

    Yes this kind of thing happens to many guys I have known. Men are not to be granted trust, but women are to be given trust unless certified and documented proof exists to the contrary.

  185.  #186Kyla on June 21, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    @Senior Lady Vibe – Happy Birthday 🙂

    @FW – Wow loads of really helpful info there, thank you I’m finding it all striking a cord with me and I’m soaking it all up.

    @Daria – I love how you explained facilitating a man’s anger it is something I’ve been finding difficult to do without shutting down and resorting to old, defensive reactions. I felt confused how to be warm and receptive and respect his feelings while feeling my own and being true to my boundaries. The way you illustrated it is so clear and helpful. It was like a light bulb moment for me. I feel excited to practice a warmer method of hearing anger expressed to me. Thank you so much! 🙂

  186.  #187Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    RE 183 Rusty I sense you are triggered

  187.  #188FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    #150/Daria, I’m confused about the four rules. I thought that: Trust our boundaries/Feel our feelings/Choose our words/Be surprised—were the four rules.

    Also I remember something about a Diva Creed being: Always date three/Keep the focus on me/_________? (I can’t remember the rest.)

    Can you explain about these things and the rules about not getting into his stuff?

  188.  #189Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    FlowerChild that is the Mantra

  189.  #190Daria on June 21, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Rusty – not all women and men behave in a direspectful unhealthy controlling manner

    Another reason there can be a double standard is that in dating …. The woman is being courted… The man does the courting

    Thus a ‘courter’ who has lots of girls around may not make the woman he’s pursuing feel secure enough

    While a woman may indeed have more than one courter


    In a marriage, i know from Roris sharing that for her, neither of them sees friends of the opposite sex that are not also on some level friends with the spouse

  190.  #191FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Ok, but then what is Daria talking about in #150?

  191.  #192Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    RE 191 The Rori Raye Rules which are different than the Rori Raye Mantra. I believe they are in the eBook

  192.  #193Daria on June 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Grabbing a man’s phone, getting in his business … Are common, yet Unhealthy behaviors

    An emotionally healthy woman – a siren – with boundaries will not behave this way

  193.  #194Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 2:46 pm


    For me, trust is implied…until it isn’t and then there is very little than can be done to earn it back.

  194.  #195Daria on June 21, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    It’s actually not ok for a woman to dictate ANYTHING to a man

  195.  #196Mel on June 21, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Hey Rusty,

    To clarify… He told me this morning that he would get back to me on something (which would determine whether or not I would be going with him). It was just about time for me to leave work and he hadn’t contacted me at all.

    Not only was this sad because he used to WANT to call me at lunch and would send nice texts throughout the day… but my concern today was okay… now what? Because I’m trying to lean back and not be “demanding’ of him, I didn’t want to even ask. I figured if he hadn’t bothered to let me know, I should make other arrangements. The question was how.

    In the end I just said “Thinking of going home with ____. What do you think?”

  196.  #197Mel on June 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm


    Can we skype tomorrow around this time? Or I can now for a bit if you’re available.

    Tell me your skype name and I’ll add you.

  197.  #198Daria on June 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Wait a minute … Feeling messages aren’t for people you want to being closer to you

    Feeling messages are for you. They’re for you to open your heart so that you Can attract people to you that can connect with you.

    Open heart is a 24 7 thing. It doesn’t work to close it sometimes, and try to open other times – says Rori

  198.  #199Daria on June 21, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Mel. Email me at so I can give u my skype

  199.  #200Daria on June 21, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    ok my skype name is MagicGoddessMedicineWoman everyone
    unfortunately right now my skype int recognizing my webcam

    i hope i can get this fixed soon so i can talk to mel, it used to recognize it…

  200.  #201LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    55: Mel

    ***For example, when he pulled the “hitch-hiking” card, he KNEW I would cave because
    A) It’s illegal here
    B) He knew I was already worried about him going in the first place and that I would not want one more thing to worry about
    C) He knows that I’m too “nice” and that if he pushes, or acts angry or put-out he’ll get what he wants because I hate conflict.***

    A) is not your business, it is his decision, he faces the consequence if he is caught. He is an adult, and he does not need a parent.
    b) you don’t know what he knows. Try to stay in your own mind. Don’t assume what others think or mean when they have not said it.

    Why would you worry? He is an adult who goes camping. At the worst he was going to a person’s house, he was not at danger.
    You are supposed to worry about yourself. He won’t get his respect back for you when you put him above your own interest. He is leaving you alone without a car in case of danger, and yet you worry about his safety.
    You both are playing games. Please look up the links to the videos I put for you in posts 31 + 32 + 33. They explain the games people play in their communication. (It is not only you, it is human condition, but you can learn to communicate)

    You spoke from your adult persona “I offer you a fair deal, I drive you to your camping site and I get you back. We both have our needs met: you enjoy your camp and I don’t stay stuck alone locked in my house.”
    He says “well if you don’t let me have the car, I will hitchhike”
    We don’t know if he speaks from his adult persona, sincerely ready to hitchhike with no drama rather than have you drive him. That is his choice, you had no business in changing the deal to make him change his decision.
    And we don’t know either if he spoke from his manipulative selfish tantrum child, to get you.
    Where he spoke from is irrelevant in this case. When you STAY in your adult persona, you don’t look over his bridge, you mind yours. You say “I trust you to know what is best for you. I am glad we have a deal. You chose to hitchhike and I keep the car.“

    If he was playing from his child persona, he might answer “You are a heartless bitch. How dare you let me without a car”
    If you play his game, you get into your parent persona, you want to protect him and spoil him above your own life and you say “I don’t want you to get arrested or attacked so I guess you need the car more than I do” Which is a lie.
    You both are getting something out of this game and a therapist would help you find what.
    You think for him, feel for him and you don’t feel or think for your own interest. You put him above you and then you resent him and complain you are the victim.
    (Mel, I realize you had a very bad weekend totally concentrated on him, thinking of him all the time and hurting for him. I feel for you. And I am only trying to help find what seems to be the problem because you want to find the problem).

    If you could let go off control, you would not live his life, you would live yours.
    You would stay in your adult persona. You would say “I don’t appreciate being called a bitch even if you are not happy with the choice you made. Are you playing a game? I don’t want to play this game. I offered a fair deal, you made a free choice. You were also free to chose to be driven by me. I will not allow anybody to lock me alone in my home a whole weekend.”
    And you walk away.
    That should send him back in his adult persona.

    But you keep being his parent, and he is using it against you. He is playing your own game and he is beating you at it. You don’t respect his boundaries, he pushes yours as far as he can and he has not finished pushing. You are both enmeshed.

    Stay on your bridge or in your adult persona. Get your integrity back.
    Take time to breath when you offer a deal, weigh the deal, feel how fair it is, convince yourself it is a real good deal quite fair for both, it will make you strong to resist his manipulation so that you can act from your adult persona, with no fight.

    When he puts himself in situations you don’t want for him and you hurt your own interest to keep him out of this situations, you are playing a toxic game. He is not your son, you can’t do that for him. Let him in the situation he chose to be in as an adult.
    This is why I was saying try to see a cognitive therapist, because you have not let go off control yet.
    It is not only you, it is about human condition.
    You are acting with him an old family script you don’t know about. On top of that you are using him to play subconscious games.

    Feeling messages don’t work when used within a game, from a parent or a child persona.


  201.  #202LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    57 Mel

    Oh yes, getting it all out is good. Sharing feelings and ideas and experiences is wonderful. It does help to keep the mood up.
    That was not my point. My point was not about the mood but about your disconnect not repaired after so many months, obviously the blog is only good to feel good but no to help your marriage. I worried you had no professional to really speak clearly about it all.
    Words on posts are not enough and everybody gives a different opinion. I worry for you. I care. I would feel safer to know a professional protects you from our so different advices.
    For example I would have not fed my anger by throwing eggs, it kept you on low frequency, there was not a chance a switch would happen.
    I would have used the time to do the work on Katie Byron page or any work on my thoughts, there are so many ways to arrive at the same point: anger transforms into clarity when I own my stuff.
    It is always about me.


  202.  #203Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 3:25 pm


    Wow, LonePlum. You never cease to amaze me.

    I learn something every time I read you.

    Doesn’t “get your integrity back” also include your power?

  203.  #204Mel on June 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Thanks LonePlum

    I will watch the videos you posted now that I am home from work. 🙂

  204.  #205Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    And by Power, I don’t mean in a “one over” on anyone but a true, stand up for myself and on my bridge, type of power. YAY for ME type of power?

    Could be the wrong word but I know what I mean here. I am not expressing well today..

  205.  #206LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    81: Mel

    Yes!!!!! Mel that’s the right truck, keep on trucking.

  206.  #207LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    82: Mel

    It is a projection .
    You are judging yourself.
    Hugs Mel, I know it is hard, but you will get it.


  207.  #208Mel on June 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    “When he puts himself in situations you don’t want for him and you hurt your own interest to keep him out of this situations, you are playing a toxic game. He is not your son, you can’t do that for him. Let him in the situation he chose to be in as an adult.”

    This is an extremely hard thing to do when you care about someone. To just let them do something potentially harmful. I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think this would be an easy thing for many people to do.

  208.  #209LonePlum on June 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    86: Mel

    You expressed your feelings and your thoughts. Which is good.
    I wish for you to re-read my post: it is written to help.
    If you felt you should not speak any more, it comes from inside you.

    I feel your frustration to be taken your voice. You will do your best to keep your voice alive in real life and to learn to speak up but in here rest reassured your voice belongs, no matter the words.


  209.  #210Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm


    Ahhhh…one of the reasons I like this place…a difference of opinions and a chance to look at things another way.

    I felt like the egg throwing situation was a great way to get rid of the anger so that Mel COULD turn inward and pay attention to herself. I don’t know what she did afterwards but that was the intent, imo and, that is what happened with me and the “golf club incident”. 😉

    It has to come out at some point. Holding it all in is a big deal, it kills people. How it comes out doesn’t really matter as long as it comes out, yes? Different strokes for different folks.

    Wouldn’t the world be a boring place if we were all the same?

  210.  #211femenrgylove on June 21, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    for hte first time a guy has told me he is not ready for a relationship.i reacted “thankyou for telling me’ and i left it there.and i have let it go.i believe cajoling,manipulating,fixing.just let it go.its shaky some days.but i’m so glad i have grown enough to just let it go.I’m a big girl now :)yay me 🙂

  211.  #212Sammie on June 21, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    SLV, Happy Birthday to you!

    I know I told you this recently, but I want to say again that I just love your emails! I love to hear just how you are taking such great care of yourself! It sounds so lovely and easy breezy. I want that feeling for myself everyday! Thanks for sharing your lovely self and thoughts here!!!



  212.  #213Turquoise on June 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    How do I feel and what do I want? To be completely honest… from Mike, I’m not really sure. I want to be a friend, I know he’s going through a hard time… and I’d like to believe that every time a guy pulls back, it’s not because I’m not enough, or what they wanted, that it really could be because of them and where they are. I guess tonight I’ll get a chance to see how it feels, what my intuition tells me.

    I know I need to practice. I want to try and do everything the Rori way as an experiment. I have no expectations on the outcome, just want to see what the reactions are if I do it her way, rather than my way. So, tonight I want to listen and be open, without offering advice or suggestions like I have in the past with him when he talked about finding a job. I talk too much, I fill the empty spaces and quiet places. I want to lean back and let him lead.

    I realize he’s not great relationship material right now, and I knew that from the first date. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to continue dating him and see what might change in that department. If he had a job, he could definitely be great relationship material. He’s looking, interviewing, and willing to take a crap job just to have something if he has to. He’s also starting back to school to improve his working potential. I’m not committing myself to him, he hasn’t asked… I’m not insinuating that is what I want…. because if he asked, I’d have to say no. I do like him, think he’s a good person, the chemistry is good… things were going well, and then he just got quiet.

    I don’t like that I haven’t heard much from him lately, and regardless if this could be a long term thing or not, I’m trying to live my life in the moment (I tend to live in the future) I want to voice that in a feeling message. I know he’s struggling right now, but if he wants me to stay in the picture, I need to be treated well. Not sure if that even matters to him right now, he sounds pretty depressed. So, I guess I’m looking at this as an opportunity to practice, see if spending some time together causes a reconnect, or if I still feel distance between us. I need to think about my words. I will stay out of his business, let him tell me what he wants, and take the conversation from there.

    Any suggestions? Anything else I should take this opportunity to practice?

  213.  #214Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    One of the hardest things for me and still is, Turquoise, is allowing the silence spaces to be silent. I always felt like if I didn’t say something, “he” would find me boring.

    I would say you have your thoughts pretty well down…you may even get an opportunity to practice wants and don’t wants.

    I also know you know this too; he can be a GREAT guy but doesn’t mean he is relationship material or even has to be. I still believe people are brought into our lives for a reason…we just need to be open to finding out what that reason is.

    You’ll be great…just relax. 🙂

  214.  #215Turquoise on June 21, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Thanks Lilybelle, and you are right. He may be great, but not the one for me… I do realize that. And actually,…. think I know that. Just wondering why he is in my life though… beyond being really cute and liking me… when I’ve been feeling frumpy.. like I couldn’t get a guy like that… I am really not sure.

    I will try and relax, just see what happens. He just called, on his way. I’m going to jump in the shower, and straighten up a bit. The girls are sleeping over at a friends tonight, so don’t need to worry about them which is nice. I’ll keep you posted on how it goes!

  215.  #216Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    186: Femininewoman says:

    RE 183 Rusty I sense you are triggered


    HAHA Yeah, I guess you could say that. I think this whole original post triggered me. Things like this do i guess. I have to won that. Nothing is going to change, the world is what it is.

    I’ve always been triggered by this stuff. I even remember a movie, not even sure which one it is. I just remember that two or three late 30’s early 40’s women met in some well lit club, sort of an upscale big city joint where a lot of professional people would go to hang out, drink and network I suppose.

    Anyway, the women, (or at least one of them) were single. They were sitting there and you could hear them as the camera panned from one guy to the next and in a very shallow manner, they found something very trivial to disqualify every single guy there. It was a chick flick and of course in the end, the woman found the perfect man. You know…the kind that don’t actually exist. 40+, single, no kids, no crazy ex, professional, model good looks, strong, in shape, total gentleman, doesn’t do drugs, doesn’t drink (or drink excessively), doesn’t smoke, no group of guy friends coming around (or him going to hang out with them), etc…

    In reality, these guys don’t exist. Everyone has flaws in some manner.

    I recently, last year or two, saw a Dr. Phil where he was helping very picky women get over it. I mean, this one woman literally would not date a guy who wore sandals. As well as a list of other trivial dis-qualifiers. So he worked with her on that, and set her up on a date with a guy. Great guy, professional and a lot going for him. She liked him. But he had on sandals. I don’t remember but I think Dr. Phil had been able to get her past that.

    But even beyond that. I mean life happens and when you are 30+, you aren’t going to ind perfect people. Perfect people are already married and will eventually celebrate a 40th or 50th anniversary. Oh, but yeah, not even they are perfect. Nobody is.

    So what if you meet a great guy, but yeah, he’s not doing great financially. Maybe he is rebuilding after a divorce that wiped him out. I would say, be thankful the guy didn’t run screaming hysterically the first time you opened your mouth.

    I had a Master Chief in the Navy who came home from a major deployment to find that his house had been sold, cars gone, bank account empty, and everything he owned of value sold. His wife had been planning it for awhile. Most guys in the Navy allow the woman to handle all finances since he goes to sea for 6 months at a time.

    Bottom line is, she ran off with her younger lover and left him devastated and in debt. Almost 50 years old, near the end of his career and he had to live in the barracks, and bum rides.

    He is one of the reasons they very much encourage you not to sign over full power of attorney.

    The guy was a wreck for a while, but he was a great guy and eventually just set about rebuilding what he could of his life. in the end, a couple of years later, he had a great attitude about it. He said, “on the bright side, she didn’t have me knocked off for the life insurance money. I guess she loved me too much to do that.” and chuckled about it. The very last time I saw him, he was with a very nice woman about his age. He was doing OK, but nowhere near as well financially as he could have been doing had his ex not done that to him.

    My point is that nobody is perfect, and the simple fact is, you have to take the good with the bad. IMHO, it is more about getting yourself to the point that you realize that Mr. Chiseled features and wash board abs with a 6 figure income also has flaws and his flaws may not only be bad, they may be dangerous…you just don’t know. He may be the one to leave you devastated while the guy you turn your nose up to may be the guy who will be by your side taking care of you forever.

    To tell the truth, the whole list at the top triggered me because in every one of those, I could turn it around to be a woman. But while many of those are definitely good reasons to not be with somebody, some aren’t as good and the simple fact is, this isn’t even the whole list. The perfect guy for you might not have perfect teeth. Yeah they might not be black from smoking too much, but they might not be perfectly straight pearly whites either. Might have a chipped tooth from playing sandlot football. Might not be perfectly straight either.

    See my point.

  216.  #217Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 5:21 pm


    I also like how you have been and continue to remain open about him. Could be a simple as that.. A teacher..

    Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

  217.  #218Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    207: Mel says:

    “When he puts himself in situations you don’t want for him and you hurt your own interest to keep him out of this situations, you are playing a toxic game. He is not your son, you can’t do that for him. Let him in the situation he chose to be in as an adult.”

    This is an extremely hard thing to do when you care about someone. To just let them do something potentially harmful. I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think this would be an easy thing for many people to do.


    No way would he have hitch hiked. He’s a lawyer and it would not look good for him to get arrested for hitch hiking. In act, it can be downright deadly to your career to get arrested for anything as a lawyer. In some cases, it can get you dis-Bar’d and or your license to practice law revoked. I am not sure hitch hiking rises to that level, but it might get him fired, and make it hard to get a job someplace else. So I am pretty sure he would not have done that. I think it was a power play, and one he played because he knew you wouldn’t allow him to do that. Like you said, he knew you would cave.

    Next time he pulls something like that, tell him “OK, that will work.”

    One other thing Mel, I would talk to a lawyer and find out if your husband would be helping himself in anyway if he files first for a divorce. I have heard that in some cases, and or in some states, it does matter who files for the divorce. Make sure that he isn’t simply buying himself some time to get his ducks in a row.

    I am not sure there is anything he can be doing for himself but who knows.

    Also, if he continues to act immature, I would seriously consider moving home. It may take him seeing an empty house every day to wake him up.

    And one last thing…if he has it in his head that he can do better, maybe it would do him some good to actually try to do better. Some men and women have to learn this lesson the hard way…that no, they can’t do better. In the end, they may realize that they messed up, and come back with a totally fresh attitude.

  218.  #219Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 5:29 pm


    I hope things work out for you. If your ex can be so nice to you and do nice things for you like that, it tells me a lot about you. You must be a very kind person and I think some guy will recognize that.

  219.  #220Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    RE 216 I see your point Rusty.Just one thing though, my experience with those perfect guys you describe with abs etc. is that they can be paranoid about a woman taking advantage so they choose to stay single.

  220.  #221Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    219: Femininewoman says:

    RE 216 I see your point Rusty.Just one thing though, my experience with those perfect guys you describe with abs etc. is that they can be paranoid about a woman taking advantage so they choose to stay single.


    That and the simple fact is, they are in demand. Their looks, charm, big house, big salary, etc… have them very much in demand. Each woman thinks they will be the one to tame him.

    But he simply enjoys his position in life and when one woman becomes too demanding, he moves on to the next who isn’t…yet.

    What’s funny is that men do have a sense of how this whole thing works because a very old, often used, and somewhat crude saying is that “No woman loves like a fat woman.”

    The point being that because a woman is fat, she has less men beating down her door to get to her, and thus, she will go more out of her way to keep a man happy. Meanwhile, that perfect looking woman you think you want will squeeze your balls and expect you to thank her for it. If you don’t, she will move on to the next guy.

    The thing is, this does work in reverse too, as I pointed out. Men who have a lot of options know they have a lot of options. It’s a new world with women’s liberation so Daria’s view that men court women is outdated. Most men, even when they do this don’t see it that way. Especially the best looking guys. These guys know they have options so they don’t court. Women throw themselves at these guys. I’ve seen it with some of my best looking friends. Heck one girl came face to face with us in a club as we were moving from one room to another. A girl we knew. She looked at my friend in a way that left no doubt that she was very very interested. I thought she was going to wet her pants.

    Who will curt a girl? A guy who doesn’t have as many options. He will be far more willing to invest a lot bigger percentage of himself and his assets in winning her affections.

    Yeah sure millionaire may drop ten grand on you for a vacation, but that is small change to him. But a man of modest means dropping 3 grand is a much larger gesture because it is a far larger piece of his pie. Work those numbers the way you want but the point is the same. It is far easier for somebody with lots of money to impress you. He can do it without causing any strain on himself or his finances. A man of modest means is going to have to fork out a much larger share of his resources to just go on vacation.

    I think it is just the way the universe works. You simply aren’t going to get it all. Want a man to truly love and cherish you or do want expensive things? Life is full of choices and choices have consequences.

  221.  #222Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    RE 208 Mel it is not an easy thing but as a parent I can tell you I have allowed my children to do things if they are insistent after I have warned them. Sometimes they choose to learn the hard way and we just have to let them.

  222.  #223Turtle Girl on June 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Rusty #168

    I could not agree more with you. Both men and women should be allowed to have friends of the oposite sex.
    We are adults here and as long as there is trust, there should not be any problems. I have two close men friends that I have been friends with for over 20 years and if my current love wanted me to end my friendship with them it would be ridiculous.

    However, this is his ex wife, not “just a friend”.
    And not only that, the kids we are talking about here?
    They are grown! Ages 35-45! It’s not like they should care what dad is doing at this point!

    So the fact that he has not told them because he is afraid that they will tell his ex does not bode well for our relationship. It makes me uber uncomfortable and makes me wonder if there is still something going on with his ex or if not, why not just “grow a pair” as you say and freaking tell her. She is a grown women in her sixties for christ sake!!!

    I mean really. Grow a pair indeed. The fact that 7 months into a relationship he is keeping me a secret from his kids and her makes me wonder what he is really doing when he goes back to visit his property.

    He has a place several hours from here and another place 1000 miles from here. AND at the place a few hours from here one of his ex girlfriends from a year ago is still living on his property in a trailer and he lets her saying that she had no where else to go.

    So there is more to this that meets the eye. And yet he swears up and down there is nothing going on with his ex wife or his ex gf. And yet I have no way of knowing and i am not the kind of women who would call them up or try and ask them what their relationships is with him. Maybe I should. Maybe I should do just that. Maybe I would be surprised and shocked to know that he still carries on with both of them for all I know. His words do not match his actions. Hard to trust a man who does this kind of thing and yet says he loves you. Then tells me he “doesn’t want to have to walk on eggs all the time around me if I am always going to be suspicious”.

    That is how he turns it back on me, and avoids changing his own behavior in order to make me feel safe and secure in the relationship. It feels very fishy to me like there is just something not right.

    Men who do this kind of thing seem chicken shit to me. Very insecure with who they are and need more than one woman to feel like they are attractive. It’s not cool.

    And I do not know what to do about it. I have not talked to him in several days. And what if he never contacts me again? do I contact him? I feel lost.
    My gut tells me if he really gives a darn about me me will either fix it, tell his ex, apologize for hurting my feelings and/or both.

    And I suppose if he does not do this, then he is not the man I thought he was, and maybe not the man for me. What sucks is that he has a ton of fine qualities and I miss him. I am angry he has done this to eff things up. But I have to keep repeating to myself over and over-I do not want a man who keeps me a secret.
    I do not want a man who is not proud to have me. I do not want a man who have dodgy behavior.

    You are a man, what do you suggest? Any brilliant ideas?

  223.  #224Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Rusty I know what you are saying. I have seen women throw themselves at men and I have heard some guys talk about how they talk about that woman who eventually becomes demanding. That is the reason why I will walk away. I have made a decent life of my own and don’t want to be a part of anyone’s stats.

    Thanks for sharing your insights.

  224.  #225tinque on June 21, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    “Daria’s view that men court women is outdated…Who will curt a girl? A guy who doesn’t have as many options:

    I’m sorry Rusty, I call b*llsh*t on this one. I don’t know what circles you frequent, and you’re not young though I don’t know if this has much bearing, for human nature is human nature.

    K always had as many options as he wanted. He so courted me and still does.

    And he’s not alone.

    I don’t want to say anymore, for I may say something I wish I hadn’t.



  225.  #226Turtle Girl on June 21, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Women who “throw themselves at men” are embarrassing to me. And deep down I don’t think the men respect them much. And Those guys who have looks, money and power can have any women they want.

    Give me a man who treats me well, respects me, is loayl and doesn’t cheat, love me for who I am and whether he has a lot of money or not does not matter to me. Looks too are subjective. It has been my experience that really handsome men and really beautiful women are not always nice people. I have dated the rich good lookers and every one of them was an a hole. Just was.

    There is a lot to be said for decent average men who have good hearts and good ways. Give me one of those please. I will be happy all the rest of my days with a man like that.

  226.  #227tinque on June 21, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    What’s really handsome, and what’s really beautiful anyway? It’s so personal, as Turtle Girl says.


  227.  #228DE on June 21, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Okay…Feeling compelled to share a bit…why? a few of the posts today about what is the reason(s) some people come into our lives…

    The last couple of months, I’ve been so aware of messages and messengers…

    To summarize: A initial encounter about 3 months ago…brought back memories of J…fun…excitement, tingly…sexual arousal…very soon…

    He disappeared for two months since I didn’t contact him either…we reacquainted, etc…
    Two weeks ago, I saw him…once more…and my interaction with him…turned me off…and got me so grounded and I realized…I am not satisfied with the type of relationship he was offering (my house, no date, no gifts, no affection when i expressed feeling lonely with him…)…i expressed…what did I learn?

    well, 1st…i will have sex with “hot” men…only when i feel all tingly and hot after an exciting night…dating, dancing, etc…and it should be at his place…

    2nd – only a dating setting would entice me to consider seeing him again…including all the above…

    Then, last Saturday, I had my 2nd date with S…my G man…of 5 years ago…what did i learn from it?

    well, again…i felt all tight up in nuts during my 2nd date…the entire time he would stare at me…always saying…”i remember…that was what i liked ab u…” over twenty times…i felt annoyed…turned off…yet, i went “with the flow”…he was attentive, paid for an awesome dinner, a great gentleman, etc…
    at his place, we shared ab our lives a bit, he offered to give me a massage…then i allowed kissing, touching….kind of melted into it…so, he decided for intimacy…and i participated it…at which, in the middle of it…upon one forceful push…all of the sudden…i woke up (btw, i only had one glass of wine…)…i felt my body completely…and i wanted him to stop…i wanted to leave…so i told him…twice…i was firm…i told him i was not ready…it felt wrong to me…and i left…i could feel his energy as in shock and pissed…

    but gosh, this is the 1st time in my life, where i listen to my body…my intuition…and stand up for myself…

    during my marriage, i experienced marital rape multiple times…afraid of another fight, broken doors, walls, stuff thrown at me…i would just give in…i feel tearful writing this…:( cause i sure don’t wish this to anyone…

    it took me over two years to get over the 9 years of abuse…i couldn’t even look a man in the eyes…cause i was so afraid….

    so last Saturday, i protected me….i did not abandon me…i felt soooo happy and relieved to be on my way home…so free….so powerful….so this was the message…S was a messenger to me to listen to my body, my intuition…they are there for me, always…for which i feel thankful…

    i now, know…i would no longer compromise, abandon myself…the tingly sensations…are there for a good reason…that means u are ready to receive the manhood of a man…just because u might be juicy down-there…means nothing…if u don’t feel it in u body 🙁

    I feel sooo happy for getting grounded…and healing some parts of me…

  228.  #229Mel on June 21, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Great videos LonePlum!

  229.  #230Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    You are a man, what do you suggest? Any brilliant ideas?


    People don’t always like my ideas. See, first I would make sure that he is really single. Use one online services if necessary where you can dig up everything there is on the guy.

    I might also tell him that you feel there needs to be a compromise. Suggest to him some of the things I suggested. Tell him t talk to them and tell them the things I said. About how they wouldn’t want him dictating their personal lives, and that if he loves them, he will accept what they choose and be happy for them. I think he needs to start by telling them he is not going to be getting back with their mother. Let that settle for a few days, and then bring up the other stuff.

    If he doesn’t do this, your choices really are very simple. Live with things the way they are, or leave.

    I can say this though too. My wife and I may get a divorce. Yeah I know, this may be a shock. Thing is, if this happens, I am straight leaving and not looking back. It has to do with a post I made a while back of people talking about things that they know nothing about. Thinking they know. But by the time it is all straightened out, the damage has been done.

    Well now I am at the point that if I do, I am leaving and moving some place where nobody knows me. Might even change my name. Why? I don’t like this kind of drama. And the simple fact is I don’t want to be judged for something I didn’t do, or even have to wonder who believes me and who doesn’t. Wonder who might think that where there was smoke there must be fore, or something like that.

    So I doubt I will ever get into a relationship because the simple fact is that the one condition would be to keep their nose out of my past because I close the book on that and don’t want it re-opened. Not something most people can handle.

    There was a time when people could easily do this, but this is the information age and people can find out a lot of stuff on you with a few key strokes.

  230.  #231Rusty on June 21, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    226: tinque says:

    What’s really handsome, and what’s really beautiful anyway? It’s so personal, as Turtle Girl says.



    yes to an extent but research has proven that there are things that make you more attractive and less attractive. It’s not really debatable…there are people that are so beautiful that their looks open many doors for them, and people who are so not beautiful that they have to develop their personalities more to succeed in life. It has been this way since the beginning of mankind, it will continue to his end.

  231.  #232Izzy on June 21, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    I have a question for you Sirens. I’ve been dating a guy exclusively for less than a month. He seems very interested in me, he is stepping up, making all the calls, taking me to dinner, paying for all dates, he gave me jewelery for Valentine’s day (which is in June where I am). He took me to a barbecue party last Saturday where I met his guy friends. A couple of them really annoyed me. I didn’t feel connected with their beliefs. They seemed like the kind of guys who like to pick fights and brag about it. The kind of people I don’t want to be around. Later, my boyfriend and I went upstairs to talk to the father of the girl who was throwing the party and after we came downstairs, one of his friends came up to me with his arms crossed, got into my face and said: “What were you doing upstairs?” I said: “Whoa, I feel intimidated”. He said: “were you having sex?” I said: “I’m feeling really uncomfortable right now”. I mean, my boyfriend was right behind me and he didn’t do anything, I felt so unprotected. That night, I had a dream I was being raped in a hospital bed, I couldn’t move my body and I couldn’t scream but I was aware of everything that was going on around me. There were nurses watching everything holding surgical instruments and they wouldn’t move to help me. The place was all white and clean. I think the dream has something to do with what my boyfriend’s lack of reaction made me feel. I have not been feeling peaceful about our relationship since this party…. What should I do?

  232.  #233Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    RE 232 Izzy my opinion is “I have not been feeling peaceful about our relationship since this party” is your clue. I believe you already have the answer.

  233.  #234Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 7:19 pm


    And equally as many “pretty people” have had those very doors slammed in their faces because they were so ugly inside. It matters who a person is on the inside…more so, imo, than on the outside.

    Chemistry and attraction is personal, no matter what research says. It just is. I’ll take experience over research papers, anyday.

  234.  #235Femininewoman on June 21, 2011 at 7:20 pm
    The only way to keep a man’s interest, devotion, love and commitment – forever – is to allow all your feelings (including the ones you think show “weakness”) to come out authentically. To be expressed in WORDS that do no harm, and yet let HIM feel YOU while you’re feeling your feelings. It doesn’t matter what he feels about your specific feelings. He’s just simply drawn in by your ABILITY to feel.

  235.  #236Lilybelle on June 21, 2011 at 7:21 pm


    Awwww, Rusty. I feel sorry to hear this.


  236.  #237Turtle Girl on June 21, 2011 at 7:21 pm


    Your earlier point about not knowing how he feels about his e wife is well taken.

    You are right-I don’t. I have no bloody way of knowing.
    The point is it makes ME feel terrible that he would appear to care more for her by not telling her to spare her feelings. Evidently she wanted for them to get back together and he realized he didn’t. So he either cares for her feelings more than mine or there is still something going on with them. Which I do not know. I understand “staying out of his head”.

    But how can I know whether he is still with her or not?
    All I have is my gut that tells me something isn’t right.
    There is some kind of hidden agenda. How care any women live with that kind of not knowing and respect herself? How can any woman not want to know the truth about what her man is doing when it comes to this kind of thing. The reality is he could be saying anything to me and telling them something entirely different and I would never know. I am flying blind and all I have is my spidey senses and his behavior. That’s it. Argghh!!! I just want to knock him over the head with a bat………I am so angry he has put me in this position to have to make a decision over this.
    Feeling really really pissed off at the man.

    And I have lost respect for him! What kind of man does this kind of thing?

  237.  #238kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    LOLZ OK…feeling silly and amused here…

    Adam called today to gripe once again about his problems. Per usual, I just listened. Then once e was done griping, he said he had to get going. I said, “So, I feel like talking about other stuff, too. Like how awesome I am hahahaha.” Then we just had some light convo.

  238.  #239Turtle Girl on June 21, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Very sorry to hear of your situation. :o(

  239.  #240Mel on June 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm


    I don’t really know too much about the situation (except for the few things that you’ve mentioned)… but if I understand it correctly, your wife heard something and then checked with a bunch of people to see if it was true, but didn’t ask you. Is this right? Sorry, if I’m simplifying or if I didn’t understand correctly.

    This is my advice to you (since you have been so helpful and candid with me).

    Again… I don’t know the whole story, but being a wife myself who discovered something quite shocking about my husband, I might have a little insight…

    So when I first checked my husband’s computer I saw something that really disturbed me. A dating site. But I was too AFRAID to ask him about it. Things were really tense between us and I knew this would just be a big argument, and I just wanted to AVOID any further confrontation or hurt unless I was sure. So I installed something on his computer to monitor more closely. This confirmed my first finding and at this point, I confronted him.

    He is really hurt that I did not trust him or come to him directly. I feel terrible about what I did because it was a coward’s way out. What he did was also hurtful, but I am certainly not proud of “monitoring” my husband.

    So all this to say that perhaps your wife was just acting out of fear. She heard something that she really does not want to be true, she’d give ANYTHING for it not to be true. But she was too afraid to ask you about it. Fear has people do some pretty stupid things. I’m not justifying what she did (or what I did) but maybe this might help you understand where she might be coming from?

    Of course I don’t know… it was just a thought.

  240.  #241Daria on June 21, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Daria says:

    as far as courting, when i say i want to be married, many men will bring up the term “courting” themselves…

    i don’t usually use it

    we have our choices about what we want our love life interactions to look like

    from hanging out, to dating, to girlfriend/boyfriend, to courting…

    its up to the woman what she wants to experience, men will conform or drop away…

    but there are always plenty of men coming 🙂

  241.  #242DE on June 21, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Wow…i admit, i have felt very curious as to why Rusty was sooo focused on Mel’s story…

    He seemed soo defensive to almost everything we would advise Mel…there was always a “but” and a “no”…and lots of explanation…

    Now, it all makes sense…Rusty appears to be projecting his own situation onto Mel’s situation…what a good Samaritan 🙂

    Okay, i feel annoyed…after all this time (at least couple of months) he goes in deep analyses, big and long explanations and stories…of everyone’s but himself…i didn’t see once taking at heart what he learns on this site, from us sharing…

    i wonder if this wife sees what i see…i grown man…having an opinion about anything and anyone, except his own story…

    i would feel so disconnected from such man…so self-observed..and kind of narcissistic…desiring attention and appreciation from other women rather than myself…ouch…it feels awful 🙁

  242.  #243kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    i feel bad for rusty, and i welcome him to come here for learning and support just as i do with anyone.

  243.  #244Nikita on June 21, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    i should be coming

  244.  #245DE on June 21, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Well, i welcome him too…i doesn’t seem that the intellectual study of compatibility of Myers Briggs helped him in his relationship…or does it???? I would ask this SOBS for my money back…:(

    Anyhow, Rusty, on a serious note, hope we can all help one another …from this point on…

  245.  #246kaitlyn on June 21, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    maybe rusty didn’t share his story with us until now because it takes men longer to open up and be personal? what do you think?

  246.  #247DE on June 21, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    I believe in all possibilities…Kaitlyn :)…but show u authentic pig skin…in the process…

  247.  #248Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    ((Hugs Rusty))

    I appreciate your opinions and the insight into men that you have offered. I don’t always agree (and that’s okay) but I have always felt that it came from a sincere place.

    I hope that whatever you decide, you will find happiness. 🙂

  248.  #249Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Hello Sirens! So many good conversations going on right now, wow!
    Today I finally gave myself credit for something: I actually listened to my instincts and ended a relationship that was not right for me. Yes, this happened about ten years ago, but still, I had doubted that it was the right choice.
    Today I realize it was.
    I actually cannot believe it has been ten years though. Time flies.

  249.  #250Daria on June 21, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Rusty – i don’t feel surprised… i’ve wondered a few times about what your relationship may feel like… and felt confused whether it would feel good

    i noticed a lot of time spent here, rather than focusing on your wife and thinking up stuff to make her happy

    and the “you did this… ” finger pointing language, and the 50 50 stuff – with the triggers and fears around being taken advantage of – did not sound like what i expected from a happily committed man

    You may have to shift your approach, but you can have a fulfilling relationship

    many of the skills you’ve shared here support a happy relationship

    you may give up on relationship and find you’re feeling rather More miserable… that’s my guess

    hoping you will work on yourself and choose not to give up

  250.  #251FlowerChild77 on June 21, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    (((DE))) I’m sorry to read this. I was in a violent marriage also. I know exactly what you mean about doing anything to avoid any more broken bones and bruises…including sex. (I still startle easily and flinch at quick movements and it’s been many years since I left him.)

    Yay for you that you listened to yourself and said, “No” to take care of you (knowing this guy would be really pissed.)

    I’m happy you are free of the violence and happily on your bridge to happily-ever-after <3

  251.  #252DE on June 21, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    FlowerChild 77:

    Thank you for reading my post…:) I feel sad to hear u also experienced it as well…unfortunately, there are many women who still are in these kind of relationships…my heart feels heavy…(sigh)…this blog is like a heaven for women…

    Back in the days, women used to fellowship with one another…spend a lot of time together….now adays, it’s very difficult and unsafe to talk about personal matters…:( for professional and personal reasons…

    Here, we can be as “anonymous” as we could be (yet, i give a “sh*it if anyone finds out cause i own each and every word i say…at least i am free…in sooo many ways)…one of my purpose in life is to help other women regain their life back…their humanity and strength…because we are the ones who raise our children…our healing is very important ….

    Lets cheer for a new beginning 🙂

    Big warm hugs,

  252.  #253Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Also.. to Daria A BIG thanks! You are an amazing person! 🙂

  253.  #254Nita on June 21, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    personally…i find men who like cartoons kinda cute hehe

    Rori and sirens, I was listening to modern siren today and there is a part that Rori says that men connect to us with our feelings not with the mind, body, spirit. I agree because our feelings is what connects us and also what is attractive to them its our feminine side. However, if this is the case what the heck are we to talk about? I get it but… what are we to talk about then when we are getting to know each other? especially when first dating i would feel weird saying i feel… and not get into a conversation about something we have in common. I do believe in this but Im not sure how to then be feeling filled and have conversation without “mind” any tips?

  254.  #255Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:43 pm


    There was a get-together after work. Ok. My husband told me he’d be home for supper. I made supper. Then I get a text (quite a while after supper) that says he had a bit too much wine and will stay a bit longer. OK. It’s now almost midnight. Hmmmmm…. I feel taken for granted? Taken advantage of? Nope, those aren’t really feelings.

    I feel sad.. yes. I feel a bit worried. yes. I feel unloveable and unimportant. ugh, yes.

    I took the dogs for a walk. That felt good. I carried on with the plans that we had made (by myself). That felt good. I feel competent to do things on my own.

    But I still feel bad. Like is this his “try?” I know… I shouldn’t wonder about what’s going on with him. I don’t want to participate in this crazy spinning dance of ours anymore. I’m stepping back… observing. What is this teaching me?

    “Losing-it” will not be my reaction. That is my gut reaction, but that won’t serve me.

    My body says it is tired. Physically and emotionally. Maybe I should just go to bed. See what tomorrow brings.

  255.  #256Lucy on June 21, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    224 Tinque/Daria/Rusty… I am currently being courted by a man who is desired by a lot of women… he sees me as rare and special, standing out from the crowd… so, yes, I agree with Tinque and Daria… <3

  256.  #257Lucy on June 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    249 Daria/Rusty. Well said, Daria. I’ve had the same thoughts and feelings. Rusty, I felt awful the other day when you were requesting “hot pics” of Mel. I know I would feel very upset if my husband was doing that. I also felt cringey weeks ago when you said several times “if I’m ever on the market again.” I feel sad for both you and your wife… and your children. 🙁

  257.  #258Mel on June 21, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    LOL Lucy… it was joking and was anything BUT a “hot” pic. Literally me with my beekeeping veil over my face.

  258.  #259Daria on June 21, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Mel – thank you 🙂

    maybe you also feel angry? that may be an unknowledged feeling that it might help to notice and feel…

  259.  #260Daria on June 21, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    love to Mel… i wish you had some fun dancing or other stuff to do where you were around men and flirting away right now

  260.  #261Mel on June 21, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Daria… thanks! 🙂 I have to work in the morning, so I will dance and flirt with men in my dreams!

  261.  #262Lucy on June 21, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    SLV, happy birthday <3

  262.  #263Mel on June 21, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    LOL… I just remembered how LonePlum said when I let go of the “leash” he might go sniffing around in others’ pee. That’s what I’m picturing right now… For some reason this amuses me. Don’t get too close there, you might end up with a really, really stinky head!

  263.  #264Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    253 Nita
    I know exactly what you’re saying. I’ve experimented with one of my CD’s that I hadn’t talked to in quite a while. One day I just *literally* leaned back and listened to him talk.

    Luckily he’s a talker, but it was surprising because I didn’t have to say much. I remembered one of Rori’s tips not to brag about accomplishments, and that was kind of hard because I just reached a milestone in my education, and I had some hesitance in approaching it.

    When I responded to what he was saying, I said things like “go on” “how interesting” “tell me more” without flattering him too much, I want him to gush on me first I don’t want to gush on him too much….

    Anyway, this issue you bring up has caused me some akwardness in conversations with men. Sometimes I run out of feeling messages. But it was definitely a conscious effort. I’ve continued to practice, and the reaction I get is positive when I say “I feel….”.
    Sirens, your thoughts?

  264.  #265Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Mel I’m so sorry for your situation. How frustrating it must be. Hugs and love to you. I think you being such a brave siren. xoxo

  265.  #266Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Rusty, sorry to hear about your marital issues. You sound very upset. 🙁
    I hope you two can work things out.

  266.  #267Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    263 I also used feeling messages to express myself and talked about what was going on in my life…..I don’t think it’s realistic to just sit there like a piece of furniture and let the guy do all the talking. Just wanted to clear up that’s not what I meant. 😉

  267.  #268Nikita on June 21, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    hot men with options court. options give men experience courting 🙂


  268.  #269Nikita on June 21, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Happy Birthday SLV 🙂

  269.  #270Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    SLV I hope you had a wonderful, fabulous birthday!! I know you did! 🙂

  270.  #271Daria on June 21, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    daria got her redtime today 🙂

  271.  #272Daria on June 21, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    daria’s attracting lots of fun activities!

    with men!

  272.  #273Emerson on June 21, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Yay Daria! 🙂

    Sirens, I have a question.
    What if a guy says he wants a woman who can stand on her own, financially and emotionally? And he also says he wants a woman who can guide him through life’s obstacles?
    He seems like a really nice guy….but I’m thinking this has feminine energy all over it. What do you think?

  273.  #274Daria on June 21, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    ok this feels fun… im starting to enjoy pictures of men’s penises when they send em

    and i feel more open to not judging them even when they look “funny”

  274.  #275Daria on June 21, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    emerson – sounds like feminine energy… but a lot of guys are just saying stuff because they think they want something…

    its more about what do they actually DO when they are pursuing… then what did they say in their profile…

    that’s what i go by at least, though i have noticed a correlation

  275.  #276Lucy on June 21, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    257 Mel, yes, I know you sent a “non-hot” pic.

  276.  #277Lucy on June 21, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    I feel curious about the issue of opposite sex friends. I’ve never felt bad about a man’s female friends and never had a man express a problem with my male friends. I wonder why this is….

  277.  #278Jeannette on June 21, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Sirens, I just miss Steve sooo much, I am in despair!!

  278.  #279Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 11:08 pm


    RE: #158 – Big smiles! You deserve the compliments, girl! You have no idea how much you’ve taught me over the last year, plus! No toddler…a woman who has aspired to changing the world…in her own unique way.

    I love you!

  279.  #280Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 11:11 pm


    RE: #98 – Welcome! I learned it from Rori and Daria! This stuff has changed my life!

  280.  #281Brenda on June 21, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Fem Woman and Mel,

    Thanks for your comments about my situation! I’m earning a Master of Divine Dirt in the Face in God’s School of Hard Knocks! 🙂 But, yes, things are going much better.

  281.  #282Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 1:09 am

    ((((((((((((((Jeannette))))))))))))))) I feel speechless

  282.  #283Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 2:09 am

    @184: Rusty says:

    “…Men are not to be granted trust, but women are to be given trust unless certified and documented proof exists to the contrary…”



  283.  #284Meemee on June 22, 2011 at 2:27 am

    I remember the first time I came to this blog. That was last September. A week after my birthday. It was a weekend. X had promised to take me out for a trip and had left to some place, to spend the weekend with his friends without even canceling the plan with me. I was sitting there in my house, with tears and anger surfacing simultaneously. When my parents called, mom asked “Didn’t you say you are going out of town this weekend???” In my bedroom was the bag I packed with carefully chosen dresses.

    That was the day I first felt convincingly that I am in the wrong place, with the wrong person doing wrong things. Then I remembered the blog I used to read. It was called “have the relationship you want”. I remembered reading some posts there which really made sense to me. Though I had read the blog a few times, I never dared to make a post there. But that day I decided I need help. I came here. I got help. I came a long way. I am happy inside.

    I am thinking: what if I had chosen not to come to this blog that day? I would have gone on with my illusions and gone on tolerating bad behavior. I would have lived under the belief that things will change. X will change. And one fine day X will come to me and say “ Look M, my parents have found a girl for me. I am getting married next week. Come for my wedding.”. And I would have been shocked, wounded and felt betrayed. I am happy for the choice I made. I chose to come here on that precise day. I am happy abut that choice.

    Leaving was difficult. The initial leaning back I did brought great results. That kindled my hopes. But that was a message- a message on leaning back. I got the message. I am happy.

    Now when X celebrates his wedding I am far away from that initial trauma. It hurts. It hurts immensely. I went for my sister’s birthday party yesterday. I walked and celebrated and sang and made merry. My mind was away from all the hurt. I was cheerful. I came back home and hit bed. I thought of his wedding and I felt that pain.

    Loneplum, you are right. I will learn not to think about him. But I can not avoid the pain. Femwoman, yes, I grieve the loss. I grieve deeply. SLV, I don’t even take second look at his enormously decorated wedding card and invitation. I deleted it.

    After all said and done, what have I learned?!
    Even though it hurts immensely, I am happy for the choices I made.
    I am happy that I chose to share things here.
    I chose to leave him.
    I chose to stand tall for myself and I got my money back.
    I am happy that by making these choices I could distance myself from the sources of my pain. It still hurts. But I am away from, far far away from the sources of my pain.

    This Sunday, when he gets married I will sit at my house, may be watch a movie. Cook for myself. Go out with friends. I am sure it is going to be tough not to think painful thoughts that day. Even if I feel the pain I am committed to taking care of myself.

    His wedding reception is on 3rd. I am going to Germany on 4th. I am happy I will be packing my stuff and getting ready for my trip that day. Please pray for me that my visa comes through and I can make this trip. I badly need to be away from all this, at least for 2 weeks. I need prayers. Please hold me in your prayers.


  284.  #285Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 2:43 am

    @185: Kyla

    Thank you. 😀

  285.  #286Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 2:48 am

    @211: Sammie says:
    “…SLV, Happy Birthday to you!
    … I love to hear just how you are taking such great care of yourself! …”

    Thank you. I have my ups and downs. I try to make the best of what there is and share if there is some joy there or something someone else might use.

    I didn’t sleep much tonight, a few minutes. Well,,, that’s the way it goes sometimes… I’ll rest later.

    Have a good morning, or evening if it’s that were you are.

  286.  #287Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 3:11 am

    @268: Nikita
    @269: Emerson

    Wow! I’ve gotten a lot of birthday wishes. I didn’t expect so many. I’m very touched and happy by all of this. Thank you!

    Trying to catch up on posts.


  287.  #288Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 3:14 am

    @61: Lucy

    Hey, Lucy. Thanks. How is your daughter? Feeling any better? It seemed very serious when you posted.



  288.  #289Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 3:16 am

    Lucy that was # 261 😳

  289.  #290Peter Kelvin Thomas on June 22, 2011 at 3:22 am


    This will give you an idea of who I am and what I am about and if you like what you see, we will go from there.

    Im 56 years old, easy to get along with. I am looking for a serious relationship that will result in a long term proposal, I am in the final stages of a life where i need a woman to be with and to spend the rest of my life with…

    Below are my personal descriptions :

    Race: White causcacian
    Education: University, Very intelligent, Very self-educated in a diverse number of subjects.
    Occupation: Contractor
    Marital Status: Single
    Drinking: Socially
    Smoking: No

    I Will travel to any distance for the right woman.
    What my interests: I have too many to list.

    I am a type of person,my philosophy is life is short and I try to take in all I can.I will try anything and if I like it I ll do it again.To give a few examples-I love the outdoors, nature, the water, animals, people, travel, camping & fishing,eating at fancy restaurants or a pub, cooking a fancy dinner for my woman, with her, or having her cook for me, having a BBQ or creatively throwing together some leftovers, renting a movie or going the movies, listening to good music, going to a concert or theatre house. I like many kinds of music except gangster Rap, I like to dance, I like to learn new things and am always interested in any type of self-improvement & going to good seminars. I enjoy my work and am very ambitious.I enjoy romance and relaxing, quality time with a good woman.

    A serious woman is the key word here. This seems to be somewhat of a commodity in todays day and age, but I havent given up my search. She is out there, somewhere searching for me. My True Love, My Soulmate, My Princess. When we find each other, I will dedicate my life to our happiness.

    I am honest, patient, passionate and giving. I am a loving man and find great pleasure in keeping the woman I love very happy in and out of the bedroom and I hope she feels the same.

    This may be you? Who knows? Guess we need to get to know each other a little better. E-Mail me back Lets talk and see what happens.

    Opportunity is only opportunity if one takes action.

    Can we have a chat together on yahoo instant messenger then add my email to your list Looking forward to talking with you.

    Send me an email and tell me more about you.

    peterkoyebaba ( a t ) y a h o o ( d o t ) c o m

    Peter Thomas

  290.  #291kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:31 am

    289 um, i didn’t know this place was a dating service. lolz

  291.  #292Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 3:36 am


    They don’t stop at anything do they.

    Yes and I wonder where good ole Peter calls home..


  292.  #293kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:38 am

    291 Nigeria. hahahaha

    but you have to send him money so he can unlock his bank account for your big fortune together to pay for the wedding!

  293.  #294Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 3:39 am


    Right and I bet “he’s” an “engineer”, currently overseas and probably lost his wife and is raising their child all alone but with the help of some family members and will be back stateside in some months time. In the meantime, “he” will fall in love with you over email and IM and maybe will send you a pretty little gift. His trip will be extended and then all of a sudden, his flow of cash will stop and he will need you to send him some money to help get him home to you and his child.

    I smell a scam.

  294.  #295kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:40 am

    “I like many kinds of music except gangster Rap”

    Well, that leaves Daria out.

    lolz…love ya, Daria.

  295.  #296kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:43 am

    I think I overfuctioned a lil with Adam today when he called. But I feel less attached to the outcome verging on Siren-y. Why? Does this mean I’m failing? Often when I fail, I become self-sabotauging and get off on screwing things up even further.

  296.  #297Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 3:43 am


    Great minds think alike, K.

    I should have played with “him” a little bit. Last time, I traced “the one who thought I was fabulous” all the way to some small town in Africa. Sent the tracing data and said something quite snide along with it. lol

    They have been attacking my Messenger too lately saying, “I love your profile on BBWsingles”.

    Deny and report.

  297.  #298Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 3:45 am


    Nope, Kaitlyn. I believe it means you are growing and learning and already are a Siren.

    Take your Siren self to the streets and start experiementing more. Guitar guy was one of the best stories ever. Do some more.

  298.  #299kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:49 am

    I dunno, whenever I practice with random, even attractive guys, I just feel triggered. As in, it reminds me of another situation where I’m not interested in a guy but practicing Siren skills on him. That situation…hooking.

  299.  #300kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 3:52 am

    My friend is advising me to take Adam up on his offer to see him in nyc. He doesn’t have a real residence there as he splits his living situation between a friend’s and a recording studio couch. He apologized deeply for not having a place for us. He can’t afford hotel either. But I’m thinking, since I made the mistake of ruining his trust (which is slowly returning. slowly), should I go out there (i fly free) and just pay for a hotel? I want to show him I’m making an effort, not just words of appreciation on the phone.

  300.  #301Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 3:53 am

    You know being triggered means theres something to heal there. You even know what it is.

    How about this? Forgive yourself for your perceptions of your past?

    I’ll never judge you, I’d like to see YOU not judge you.

    What say you?

  301.  #302Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 3:59 am

    @215: Rusty says:
    “…I would say, be thankful the guy didn’t run screaming hysterically the first time you opened your mouth….”

    I’m curious, Rusty. Why would a man do that? Do you find it usual? That a man runs screaming hysterically the first time a woman opens her mouth.

    Is it like this?

    Woman: Hello
    Man: Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!

    Is this a sample of guys who are left in the pool of unmarrieds? Could be, could be. They don’t usually run screaming though… they do… other things…

    There are a whole bunch listed in Rori’s thread post so I guess we are on topic. Perhaps they can be recycled. There’s probably some good stuff in there… somewhere…

  302.  #303Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 4:00 am


    Hmmmm.. If you fly free, come here!!!;-)

    I don’t think I would entertain that idea just yet, given his current state of mind. I would leave it as an option but in all honestly, I feel concerned about you going now because of what he said about not being boyfriend material. It would break my heart to see you go and return feeling awful because he can’t/won’t give you what you need.

    I’m quite sure other Siren-y SIrens will have more to say. My concern lies with you, Kaitlyn. I want you to be and feel safe…

  303.  #304Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 4:03 am


    I have to admit, I broke out with a loud chuckle on that one. Of course, I am a visual reader/listener so I say that event play out right between my eyes. 😉

    I also can honestly say that hasn’t happened to me, yet. There certainly have been, over the years, times when I wanted to run but it wasn’t immeditately upon him opening his mouth… I also can say that I should have trusted my instincts at those times too.

    Time to make the donuts. My ear is better, I only woke up once last night.

  304.  #305kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 4:06 am

    302 lillybelle, yes, i considered this pov you have. but what if me making the effort to come out their will rebuild his trust in me.

    omg i am so stupid. 2 weeks in paris, yet i had my laptop. i shouldve just fb’d ‘omg i lost my phone at ikea. avail now on fb and emails.’ then stalled after a week, saying tmobile wants $100 to replace phone and i cant get the money til next paycheck.’

  305.  #306kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 4:10 am


    is your ear prob from opiate abuse? or rather that apap in pharm opiates? seems to be common among my friends.

  306.  #307Jeannette on June 22, 2011 at 4:20 am

    Sirens, I can’t find any of your threads about your responses to Steve’s passing. Did anyone post anything and where?

  307.  #308Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 4:20 am

    @220: Rusty says:
    “…It is far easier for somebody with lots of money to impress you….”

    Not me. LOL 😀

    But I suppose it might be easier to impress the kind of women who is impressed by lots of money
    😆 Some of the other women here on blog aren’t impressed by a whole of money either. But men seen to think so and like you just did, say so.

    Men say it’s easy to show off their big things: bank rolls, cars, boats, houses, fish, whatever they think is big. Is that the thinking? If I show her a big fish, it’ll be easy… she’ll be easy? I sure see a lot of that in pics. Fishy, fishy. Does it work? Who are these big fish women?


  308.  #309Daria on June 22, 2011 at 4:39 am

    I Do feel impressed by lots of money. I feel intrigued, like this person may have something to teach me. I look up to them for having that.

    And it takes more than money to court me nonetheless

  309.  #310Daria on June 22, 2011 at 4:41 am

    I also feel impressed by big dicks, nice cars, even big fish. I feel impressed that a man wants to impress me. I like that.

    He likes me. I like that.

  310.  #311Daria on June 22, 2011 at 4:44 am

    Jeanette – Steve passed away??!!! I feel shocked. I kinda had a feeling…

    This is the first time I saw something written. Wow Jeanette. What a blessing to have shared this time together.

    Love to you.

  311.  #312kaitlyn on June 22, 2011 at 4:47 am

    jeanete, i’m so sorry for your loss. Steve will always remember in his passing how much he was loved by you and will never forget it. my heart goes out to you.

  312.  #313Jeannette on June 22, 2011 at 4:48 am

    Daria, I wanted to marry him but we had so many problems. I am troubled…I love him and this hurts so much..Do you think I can still be his in the here after?

  313.  #314Daria on June 22, 2011 at 4:51 am

    Kaitlyn – aha!

    We have identified the stuff coming up to heal:

    ” As in, it reminds me of another situation where I’m not interested in a guy but practicing Siren skills on him. That situation…hooking.”

    This is what comes up for you, how your voices are coming up to run u and keep u in the past patterns. All you gotta do is

    Notice it


    Tell it you love it.

    And that you’re running things now.

    Were a team, and I’m running it.

    Amd go on just being ‘aware’ that that feeling/idea bundle gets triggered for u. And that’s ok.

    And just noticing it, and loving it, will heal it and change it, fast.

  314.  #315Jeannette on June 22, 2011 at 4:53 am

    Maybe my post didn’t make it on Mon. After receiving a liver on Sat morn. Steve experienced a cardiac arrest. It does happen on occasion. He survived it but he had massive problems. He was bleeding and they couldn’t control it. All together he took in 80 units of blood. He was up and down in the ICU for almost 2 days. Things even went a little better. Then on Mon. morning at about 1am things took a turn and his blood pressure bottomed out. They worked to revive him for about 45 minutes but could do nothing. I am extremely devasted with guilt that I was so worried about how I could handle everything. I am concerned that he was taken because he didn’t want to be a burden to me. The guilt is horrendous! I would have done anything for him in the end because that was what I wanted and was willing to do.

  315.  #316Daria on June 22, 2011 at 4:55 am

    Jeanette – I think he knew that you loved him and I know he loved you. I think god put you there for him to comfort his end times, and for you to regain hope in love and marriage.

    It wasn’t gona work out but it was love and god knew what he was doing.

    Hope u much happiness now girl, Steve is rooting for u, you cam always talk to him and he will support you.

  316.  #317Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:00 am


    I am SO sorry to hear about your loss.

    I don’t know anything for certain about the hereafter, but I choose to believe that perhaps it is whatever we want it to be.

    Hugs to you!

  317.  #318Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:04 am


    We are all human. Each one of us at any particular time is doing the very best that they can in that moment. Please don’t feel guilty. Steve knew he was loved and you did an amazing job as his strong and devoted fiancee.

  318.  #319Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:16 am

    I did not “lose it.”

    I am strong.

    Yay me! 🙂

    Daria, I wasn’t perfect in all of the “rounds.” But I just regrouped and kept trying. I’ll get better.

    After our non-fighting conversation at 1:30 am on a Tuesday night, I said something that seemed to “get through.” This totally wasn’t a feeling message… so maybe it’s not good… but I said it from my heart with softness, so maybe that’s what counts…

    “J, you know how to be a good husband.”

    He gave me a big hug and seemed to relax.

  319.  #320Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:20 am

    RE 318 Mel that felt heartwarming.

  320.  #321Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:29 am

    RE 330 kaitlyn don’t mean to trigger you but “I want to show him I’m making an effort, not just words of appreciation on the phone” reads to me like strategizing or game playing. I am assuming that was not your intention but could be something flying below your radar of consciousness.

  321.  #322Joy on June 22, 2011 at 5:29 am


    Thank you for your wonderful advice and programs. I am a divorced, single mother of three. I left my husband of 8 years almost three years ago. my three small children and I had to stay in a shelter because he was abusive. He also cheated on me with several people including my best friend. I was always very vulnerable and submissive to him and trusting of him.

    Fast forward to today. I have a boyfriend of one year whom pursued me for a long time. He brings me flowers at least once a month, takes me on romantic dates and dotes on me. I am used to jerks and was not to use to a nice guy who treated me like a princess. My boyfriend and I have been “on and off” the whole year. The reason for this being that I do not trust him (even though he has never proven in the whole years time not to be trustworthy). I simply do not trust any man.

    I fly off the handle in jealous rages over practically any woman that happens to be in the room and/or walk by. I know I am attractive but my Ex husband cheated with me on people who I thought were much less attractive than I. This in my mind, means any woman is game with my boyfriend. I try to control him and check up on him. I hate being like this. It is completely ruining our relationship. He recently told me he wants to stay with me because he loves me but he needs some space and cannot keep putting up with this. He told me I need to “figure it out.” He said he is in love with me and that I shouldn’t make it so complicated. He doesn’t want to date anyone else and this is not the first time this has happened.

    Please HELP before me jealousy ruins the first healthy relationship I’ve had.


    Green-Eyed Monster 🙁

  322.  #323Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:29 am

    RE 302 SLV You are precious.

  323.  #324Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:37 am

    Jeannette I don’t remember which thread but I remembered reading about him having a cardiac arrest. I am really sorry about your loss. The lesson I take from it is to live the life you/I want regardless of what people say or the impression that might be created. I have heard that graveyards are filled with unrealized dreams. I believe that sometimes people go because they kind of give up and choose to go. Who knows, he might not have shared all he knew about his health situation because he was trying to spare you some of the worry. Do you know how Rick and the rest of the family is doing? Consider that Steve would want you to be happy, grieve the loss but at the same time hold the happiness you shared with him in your heart. It can be recreated.

  324.  #325Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 5:37 am


    Opiate abuse?


  325.  #326Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:40 am

    RE 322 Is “Green-Eyed Monster ” the way you think of yourself?

    Warm hugs

  326.  #327Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:41 am


    This could help:

    Rori’s also got a couple articles on jealousy and such.

  327.  #328Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 5:42 am


    Awww, Jeanette. I’m so, so sorry for your loss.


  328.  #329Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:42 am

    “Feelings such as jealousy are always a symptom of inner abandonment. Jealousy, insecurity, neediness, fear of rejection – these feelings are not the issue. They are the symptom of the fact that we are abandoning ourselves through:

    -Self Judgment
    – Not attending to our feelings, using addictions to avoid our feelings
    -Making others responsible for our feelings of safety, lovability, and worth

    No other person can ever take away these painful feelings. No other person can make up to you the lack of valuing you might have experienced as a child. No matter how much others love and value you, as long as you are not loving and valuing yourself, you will feel unsafe, insecure or jealous.”

  329.  #330Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 5:43 am

    Mel I meant 319 felt heartwarming.

  330.  #331Daria on June 22, 2011 at 5:46 am

    Mel – oh you so got it!

    Go girl!

    Interestingly, that kinda appreciation seemed to soften my father too. I said ‘you Can communicate without hurting people, I Know you can’. And he relaxed

    Yay for appreciation

    Yay for Mel

  331.  #332Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 5:49 am



    That felt REALLY good to me. It sounded soft and open and it produced a genuine feeling moment from him.

    Nicely done, imo!

  332.  #333Mel on June 22, 2011 at 5:51 am

    Yeah… Daria it was strange. At first, I was like Oh no! I shouldn’t have said that. But then I wondered if he took it as encouragement. Or maybe that I trusted him or something.

  333.  #334Jeannette on June 22, 2011 at 6:00 am

    Femininewoman, thanks for your words. I just should have married Steve I think even last Dec. when he wanted. I just got too worried about the medical bills. What a lesson. Maybe something could have worked in our favor if I would have just married him then. I did want to marry him into the future, but I wanted to get past the worst of the health care issues first. I feel pretty guilty at this moment. Nothing I can do now. I just wish I could have become his wife. He and I only wanted that. That would have made both of us so happy.

  334.  #335T-Girl on June 22, 2011 at 6:06 am

    Jeanette – I am so sorry to hear of Steve’s passing. (((((((hugs))))))

  335.  #336Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 6:15 am

    Jeannette I believe you were his wife. I believe he felt you were his wife. I believe things happen in the spirit realm before it manifests in our reality. This story you can tell the way you choose. A way that makes you feel happy. The only thing that was missing was the formality of the documentation. Two spirits joined in one is more powerful in my reality than formal documentation.

  336.  #337Lily T. on June 22, 2011 at 6:18 am

    Oh Jeannette, I am so very, very sorry. This morning is the first I read of what happened. It’s a shock.

    Huge, holding on tight hugs to you (((((((Jeannette))))))

  337.  #338Joy on June 22, 2011 at 6:26 am


    Wow! I have never heard that before. It makes total sense though. Thanks so much for your insight!!! 🙂

  338.  #339Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 6:28 am

    “You FEEL whatever feelings you’re feeling, give up trying to hold the feelings back, and sink into them – as though those feelings are your deepest friends (they are).”

  339.  #340DCD on June 22, 2011 at 6:30 am

    I need your help…I have been dating a man for one year now, and everything between us is very good and stable. He is not the most emotionally forthcoming man, but I am comfortable in our relationship. Problem: Saturday night is his 40th class reunion. I was looking forward to going and meeting people he has talked about and hearing old funny stories….When I mentioned it, he said he did not think it would be a good idea for me to go because he didn’t feel like he could have a good time reminiscing if I was there. He said he thinks jealousy would be an issue. In one year we have had two incidents where I have felt insecure and that was because of things HE did. The first thing was after three months of dating a previous date texted him before we were to go out. I asked if they are in communication and he said yes…I told him I didn’t like that. He understood and he then told her to stop contacting him. Later that night we were in a large group of people and he was talking to a woman. He did not introduce me. After we left he made the comment, “now that’s the one you need to worry about.” It wasn’t malicious, and he meant it as a joke, but it wasn’t funny and it hurt my feelings and made me feel insecure. We talked about it and he apologized and understood. All that in one night….so that is the first incident…the second incident was when we were on my friend’s boat and another friend of ours was taking her top off to sun bathe and he was taking pix and took a pix of her taking her top off…i casually said, whoa cowboy, calm down. Later I told him it was inappropriate and I didn’t like it. We always discuss and resolve even if we agree to disagree. Anyway, these are the two things he is citing as to why he thinks there will be jealousy issues…which I do not think is fair. Plus now, i feel like he is holding these things against me when we discussed it and agreed it was over. I am SO hurt that he doesn’t want me to go, and since our relationship is so good otherwise, I do not know how to handle this. Please can someone help me?

  340.  #341Mel on June 22, 2011 at 6:31 am


    I needed to read that quote just as much as you, I think. Funny how that works. The Inner Bonding site has lots of great articles like that and you can sign up for a free newsletter.

    The quote I posted came from there as well.

    Big hugs!

  341.  #342Kyla on June 22, 2011 at 6:35 am


    I’m so sorry for your loss. I didn’t see a post from you since you said the next 48 hours were critical 🙁 I’m so very sorry to hear this sad news.

    Big, warm hugs for you.


  342.  #343Emerson on June 22, 2011 at 6:40 am

    Jeannette, I am soo sorry to hear of your loss. Your love and caring for Steve was obvious, he was fortunate to have you by his side. I feel sad that you are missing him and he’s passed away. I’m so sorry to hear this. 🙁 Hugs, Emerson

  343.  #344Kyla on June 22, 2011 at 6:42 am


    Sounds like you did great last night!


  344.  #345Emerson on June 22, 2011 at 6:42 am

    328: Mel says:
    “Feelings such as jealousy are always a symptom of inner abandonment. Jealousy, insecurity, neediness, fear of rejection – these feelings are not the issue. They are the symptom of the fact that we are abandoning ourselves through:

    -Self Judgment
    – Not attending to our feelings, using addictions to avoid our feelings
    -Making others responsible for our feelings of safety, lovability, and worth

    No other person can ever take away these painful feelings. No other person can make up to you the lack of valuing you might have experienced as a child. No matter how much others love and value you, as long as you are not loving and valuing yourself, you will feel unsafe, insecure or jealous.”

    Mel, thanks for this post, I really related to this. I have problems with jealousy and it’s always been a struggle.

  345.  #346Jeannette on June 22, 2011 at 6:42 am

    Thank you everyone. I am dealing with this one moment at a time. Steve’s viewing will be tomorrow and the funeral is at 11 am. Please be thinking of him.

  346.  #347Mel on June 22, 2011 at 6:50 am

    Me too Emerson!

  347.  #348Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 7:01 am

    RE 340 Is it possible an ex might be at that reuion?

  348.  #349Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 7:01 am

    @229: Rusty says:
    “…I can say this though too. My wife and I may get a divorce. Yeah I know, this may be a shock. Thing is, if this happens, I am straight leaving and not looking back…
    …I doubt I will ever get into a relationship because the simple fact is that the one condition would be to keep their nose out of my past because I close the book on that and don’t want it re-opened…”

    Yes, this is a shock, Rusty. And the revelation seems “guy style” too. No name calling in that but you slipped it in as in…
    “…I’m getting a haircut, rotating the tires, probably catch the game, may get a divorce…” 😥

    If you close the book, never reopen it and never have another relationship, you have closed the book but will have caught and pressed yourself between the pages… like a flower or a butterfly. An ant at a picnic? (I was searching for a more masculine image…)

    Rusty! Would you not give yourself the same chance, that you have suggested to Mel, to keep and repair your marriage? I didn’t read what you wrote in that post you referred to. However, whatever the problem is, could it really be that bad?… unless you are writing on this blog from a prison. And even then people can forgive and be forgiven. Plus you said the problem resulted out of misunderstanding.

    Have you and your wife tried counseling? I’d give it a try. I hope you would too.


  349.  #350Brenda on June 22, 2011 at 7:01 am


    RE: #314 – This post this morning is the first I saw of him passing. I saw the one you missed him last night and wasn’t sure what happened.

    Jeannette, I am so, so sad for you! You did nothing wrong, at all. You did nothing to feel guilty over. You have been exhausted, stressed, and your love for Steve was obvious. Please don’t put yourself on a false guilt trip. It will take you nowhere, and you don’t deserve it.

    He is a fortunate man to have had the love of a woman right up to the very end. I am so sorry. It was like a battle, and sometimes battles are won, and sometimes battles are lost. You, he, and the doctors fought valiantly to the very end.

    Let yourself feel the pain…I believe that is the number one way to avoid bad feelings in life…to work thru the pain. And know that Steve is not suffering any longer. I will be praying for you and Steve’s loved ones this week as you come to mind. I know this is a horrible loss.

    I think I told you I lost an alcoholic boyfriend to advance stage liver disease? His name was Christopher. I only knew him 6 months, so I can’t fully know the devastation you are feeling right now. But just before Christmas, he was told he was terminal. His liver was just a dead organ inside him, from all his drinking.

    It was the one and only Christmas I had a boyfriend NOT in prison…and I felt so sad. I remember climbing in the hospital bed with him, and bringing mistletoe to kiss under the hospital bed.

    They said he could either go to a hospice, or come home with hospice care. I wasn’t going to consider hospice for a moment. This was the time he needed to be surrounded by loved ones.

    His sister thot he should go to hospice. I walked to visit him at the hospital every night after work, because I didn’t have a car at the time. Sometimes I slept at the hospital overnight. I was exhausted already when he came home.

    Each day when I got home from work, after he came back home, I changed his bag that had a tube out his belly. Each day, new signs of his body shutting down were evident. Instead of a neat, clean house, a jar would be smashed and left on the floor. He was dying, and there was nothing I could do about it.

    After 3 weeks of him being home, I needed a break, desperately, and my church was having a weekend retreat. His sister agreed for him to stay the weekend at her house. He died while I was away.

    She tried to heap condemnation on me that I walked out on him right when he needed me most. But I didn’t receive it. I struggled, but I knew in my heart that I was the one who kept loving him, day in and day out, while she visited him once or twice. I just needed a break after weeks of high level stress.

    And I hope you release yourself from any feelings of self-condemnation, too. Jeannette, you did all you could. Your load was more than you could bear. So now please let Steve continue to live in your heart, while you take care of YOU.

    I love you!

  350.  #351Brenda on June 22, 2011 at 7:04 am


    We lose a piece of our souls by teaching ourselves how not to care… ~ Randy Stonehill

  351.  #352RiverGirl on June 22, 2011 at 7:25 am

    Ohh (((Jeannette))), I feel so sad hearing about Steve’s passing. It was such a brave thing he did, to undergo the transplant, to make a choice for a better quality of life, rather than just standing by. I think that there is a lot we can all learn from that. I will be thinking of you and of Steve. xoxo

  352.  #353Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 7:33 am

    @253: Nita says:
    “…especially when first dating i would feel weird saying i feel… and not get into a conversation about something we have in common…”

    Well, since you asked. I’m not Rori so I plan to continue talking in a way that is normal for me. I learned not to do the “you-you” more than thirty years ago so I know how to express thoughts and feelings that belong to me.

    If I meet a guy who wasn’t clear on that…and to some extent a LOT OF PEOPLE aren’t, I might want to run. If he has a habit of saying things such as “I feel” or “you made me” when describing a course of events, I would not be happy with that.

    At this moment I don’t know how I can avoid some of that but I have high hopes. Do you have any ideas? I see some of the sirens going through men like a dolphin through water but I’ll have such a tiny pool I don’t want to throw everyone away. Ugh. I won’t have any left. I feel a chill just thinking about it.

    I know, I know. At last, I only need one good one. I’ve done some work, decades and decades so intellectually I understand…. Still… Hmmm… well, I shall see…


  353.  #354Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 7:34 am


    Brenda… (((((Brenda)))))

    I am in awe of your strength, you’re ability to offer support even while faced with your own challenges and am amazed at the person you are.

    So open and willing to share your own pain and grief.

    This is truly, TRULY a place of healing.

    Heartstrings stretched to the limit today. I feel thankful for that.

    Thank you.

  354.  #355DE on June 22, 2011 at 7:43 am


    Wow, i feel speechless in these kind of moments…:(

    Sending you warm, comforting, and peaceful thoughts….

    Big warm hugs,

  355.  #356Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 7:48 am

    @269: Emerson says:
    “;;;SLV I hope you had a wonderful, fabulous birthday!! I know you did!…”

    Thanks! I’m still enjoying it. I got some gifts that were very unexpected. And…. oops… 😳 I’ve been shopping. After I swore off purchases for last nine months of the year. I didn’t get too far with that but at least I’m practical… mostly… 😆

    Sweetie and I are going out for coffee and then over to bookstore to shop for another gift.. tee hee 😆

    I’m so sleepy, stayed up last night and only a couple hours this morning. I was never very good with taking daytime naps but I might have to.

    Behind on blog posts so I guess what I write will be out of order.


  356.  #357DE on June 22, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Sirens, I need to run something by you…

    Last nite I got a friend request on FB from my exbf (J) business partner or whatever she is…:( she and i also were in the same ballroom studio, so she knows me a bit cause we interacted…

    yet, it was difficult for me to interact with her because it would bring memories of J…

    and now, on FB…sigh…i feel turned between accepting, denying, ignoring for a while…or sending her a message saying i feel uncomfortable because of her relationship with J….yet, I don’t even have confirmation she knows about me…:( I don’t want to open up a big can of worms…:(

    I feel confused ab it…and the confusion is driven by a high amount of fear…:( fear because i don’t know her too well…and don’t know what that would bring into my life 🙁

  357.  #358Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 7:55 am

    DE I would tend to ask myself what is the worst that could happen if I choose any one of the options?

  358.  #359Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:00 am

    @272: Emerson says:
    “…Sirens, I have a question.
    What if a guy says he wants a woman who can stand on her own, financially and emotionally? And he also says he wants a woman who can guide him through life’s obstacles?…”

    I’m cool with the life obstacles part as long as supporting each other is mutual. I’d also want to know what he thought some of those obstacles might be to see if we were on the same page.

    On the other hand, wanting me to be on my own financially and emotionally… That gives me pause. Does this mean if I cry, he’d run, or he’d never buy me a Valentine’s gift or remember my birthday or we couldn’t put our money together on trips etc. Separate checks for dinner? Oh, no!

    I believe I prefer a feminine-masculine balanced man. A witty, well-read artist or writer is fine with me BUT… Big but, this man could make me decide “I could do better by myself!” What do you think?


  359.  #360DE on June 22, 2011 at 8:05 am


    Good question indeed…

    I have several people from the studio as my fb friends…so, part of me, i don’t want to hurt her feelings…as if i am singling her out…especially, if i don’t tell her why…:(

    Ha…hmm…wow…i have some very selfish and shameful thoughts 🙁

    i know she is separated, yet not divorced…has expressed to me in a few occasions that i am the kind of person she should look up for strength…and fun…she is in her 50s

    the bottom line, if she wasn’t associated with J…i would have no problem…:( deep down i feel jealous of the amount of time she spent with him…i feel anger…

  360.  #361Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:07 am

    @276: Lucy says:

    “…I feel curious about the issue of opposite sex friends. I’ve never felt bad about a man’s female friends and never had a man express a problem with my male friends. I wonder why this is….”

    Maybe you’re like me? I don’t get jealous in that way. If man is doing something I don’t like, I’d leave. And a man’s unacceptable behaviour would include encouraging or permitting any of his friends, of whatever gender, to be rude or disrespectful to me. But pulling a phone out of man’s hand? Incredibly rude! I could not imagine myself doing that.


  361.  #362Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:11 am

    239: Mel says:


    I don’t really know too much about the situation (except for the few things that you’ve mentioned)… but if I understand it correctly, your wife heard something and then checked with a bunch of people to see if it was true, but didn’t ask you. Is this right? Sorry, if I’m simplifying or if I didn’t understand correctly.


    It’s a long and complicated story. But suffice it to say this chapter is over.

    The short story is that people now think they know something about me and they know nothing about me. The think I may have done things I wouldn’t even consider. There are just certain things that once somebody associates it with you, they can never get out of their mind. Even when it is proven false, as was my case. It’s just the world we live in these days. That’s why I made the comment about how people used to be able to at least walk away from these situations and start clean someplace else. Not so easy anymore. For one, with all of the known stories of con men taking advantage of women, a smart woman is going to want to know about your past. I don’t feel that is constructive since I want to start fresh and move on.

    I do have some great friends from my past in the military that I might try to re-connect with. They are the type that I think would understand when I simply say, “I’ve closed the door on that chapter of my life and have no desire to open it.”

    I live in the hear and now, and look forwards, not backwards.

    ALso, while I deeply loved my wife, and quickly learned to accept her idiosyncrasies, and believe me, they are many and varied. However, mine are not acceptable. In short, I had to be perfect.

    Then there are hurtful things. Some little but still hurtful like when we were first dating, it was as if she were embarrassed that I was in the military because even though I did carpentry in my off time, I was very proud of being in the military, but when her family and friends would ask what I did, she would say, right in front of me, “He’s a carpenter by trade.” Even when I asked her to stop doing that.

    Also, when I said my ex-wife was the one who would always take the word of others over me, that was her. While she loves to talk about me behind my back, I never did that to her and thus didn’t feel comfortable even identifying her as the one who did that, here on an anonymous board. My loyalty is that deep. It was so bad that while in Sicily, our landlord and her were trying to help me get my SUV parked in the parking area. Problem is, this was an older part of town and this thing was designed to accommodate very small cars.

    I knew it would not fit and said so without even driving the car up to the entryway. To describe this, the apartment building had an atrium area. It was about 7 or 8 stories tall but it was built with an irregular shaped atrium style. There was a gated entryway to a sort of tunnel that allowed you to enter into the atrium which was paved with cobblestones and the entire area was lined with garage doors. I knew that our garage would be a tight squeeze at best even if I could get into the garage. But I knew it wouldn’t fit. She insisted we try.

    So with her on the right side, and the landlord on the left side, they tried to guide me in. I got to the point where I knew it was going to scrape the paint and said so.

    She insisted and insisted that I was wrong because the Landlord and one other guy who lived there said it would fit.

    So I am looking her in the eye and telling her to stop the traffic so I could back out. She keeps insisting that it will fit. I’m thinking, “Why is it that you accept what everybody says, but never me, why do I always have to prove I am right?”

    So I looked her in the eye and let off the brakes and allowed the right side of the SUV to get crushed in an inch. I looked at her and said, “Happy now?”

    She could also make comments about my body, like if I started to put on a little weight, but if you said anything about her, it was a cardinal sin. She couldn’t even take constructive criticism well at all. For instance try suggesting that she should write out a to do list to help her organize her time and she would take it as a personal attack.

    The thing is, it was like this from the beginning. It was a mistake to get married. I learned that people don’t change, that you can’t expect them to just learn that you can be trusted, etc…” How people act is how they are going to act. You can’t think, “Well because I am a good man, or good woman, that will change because they just haven’t been around good people, etc…” People are who they are and when you learn who they are, you can either accept who they are or walk away. There really is no in between.

    Right now I feel dead inside, and the only way I see a path back to happiness is to simply walk away and close the door on this chapter, and start fresh. Since people don;t like to let you do that, I don’t see myself in another relationship…not a serious one anyway.

    I intend to just concentrate further on my schooling, which should help even though I am basically a straight A student. I might even pursue my Masters after getting my B.A. or B.S.

  362.  #363Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:11 am

    @277: Jeannette says:
    “…Sirens, I just miss Steve sooo much, I am in despair!!..”

    Is he still recovering?


  363.  #364Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:17 am

    @283: Meemee

    Keep “doing” what you know you should do. The pain fades even though it’s kind of zig zag, up and down sometimes.



  364.  #365Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:19 am

    254: MelNo Gravatar says:


    There was a get-together after work. Ok. My husband told me he’d be home for supper. I made supper. Then I get a text (quite a while after supper) that says he had a bit too much wine and will stay a bit longer. OK. It’s now almost midnight. Hmmmmm…. I feel taken for granted? Taken advantage of? Nope, those aren’t really feelings.



    I wanted to say this yesterday but didn’t. I have this weird feeling that he has met someone, but needs time to develop the relationship to the point that he can ask her to move in. Maybe he thinks that is possible after the summer.

    But he needs your income until then to help pay the bills. So he needs to have a sort of smooth transition, you out and her in.

    Something just isn’t right here. Too many puzzle pieces lining up in the wrong direction. Like not wanting to have you drop him off at the campground, there being a party, not coming home on time, the dating site, too much wine so not coming home on time, etc…

    Something smells.

    I think it is time to do more sleuthing to see what he is doing and who he is doing it with.

    It just feels like to me that he has something else going on. You yourself don’t feel like he is trying. Things you say here, like the above, tell me the same thing. So look out for youself.

  365.  #366Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 8:21 am



    I’m sorry. 🙁


  366.  #367Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:23 am

    @292: kaitlyn says:
    “…but you have to send him money so he can unlock his bank account for your big fortune together to pay for the wedding!…”

    But first send money as he is stranded in Italy and if he can make it into Switzerland you’ll be three million dollars richer!! Yea!!!


  367.  #368Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:28 am

    256: Lucy says:

    249 Daria/Rusty. Well said, Daria. I’ve had the same thoughts and feelings. Rusty, I felt awful the other day when you were requesting “hot pics” of Mel. I know I would feel very upset if my husband was doing that. I also felt cringey weeks ago when you said several times “if I’m ever on the market again.” I feel sad for both you and your wife… and your children. 🙁


    Doesn’t bother me, because I know you assumed I am happily married, but by that point, I was over it. Or maybe it was a way of telling myself it is OK to start looking out for me again. Stop pouring my enrgy down a black hole that is doing nothing but sucking the life out of me.

    My life is wasteland now thanks to the soon to be Ex, with a family full of people that either look at me out of the side of their eyes, or me questioning if they are, etc…

    So I am moving on. Forging ahead and I have no doubt that I WILL be happy again. Of that one thing I am sure.

    I am going to get that Harley and do what I used to love to do. Pullout of the driveway and just start riding without a care in the world where the road led me. When I get far enough, I find someplace to sleep, find out where I am, eat, and then head back in the morning. Nothing in my life has ever felt that liberating. I’m going to do that again.

  368.  #369Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:30 am

    @294: kaitlyn says:

    “I like many kinds of music except gangster Rap”
    Well, that leaves Daria out…”

    What?! [my pouting voice] That’s no fair, no three million for Daria.

    Oh, Daria doesn’t believe in money. But what about the diamonds,,,,? the secret box of diamonds…? In the secret vault? Hmmmm, will Daria miss out on those if she listens to gansta rap?

    Stay tuned… when we return again [cue up organ music] “As the E-mails Turn….”

    Fade to black.


  369.  #370Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:33 am

    290: kaitlyn says:

    289 um, i didn’t know this place was a dating service. lolz


    LOL, I thought the same thing when I saw that. Then I laughed and thought, “this be dangerous waters to be trollin…thar be crazy people here.”

    Myself included of course. 😉

  370.  #371DCD on June 22, 2011 at 8:34 am

    @347 He doesn’t really know who will be there or what to expect…he only had one girl he dated in high school who he calls the evil one…she married and had children and so did my bf. He was married for 18 years, single for 2, lived with someone for 8, single for 2, then met me and we’ve been dating with seriously no problems for 1 year (Friday is our anniv.) Saturday is the reunion. I would assume he thinks she might be there, but I don’t think he is delusional. Let me run this by you and see if it makes any sense: He is a contractor and has had virtually no business for the past three years and is financially drowning….His son divorced and has been staying with him (with his 18 month old part time) since December. His daughter graduated from college but continues to go between school and home. Neither child helps out financially or with any housework, yardwork, etc. (He was the primary caretaker when they divorced)….He is 57. He has aged well. A lot better than most of his friends. I almost feel like he wants to go because he may get his ego stroked. The women are going to think he’s attractive and the men are going to be envious. That’s just my theory. Even so, I don’t understand why he wouldn’t want me there. And him putting the “jealousy” issue on me makes it hurt even worse. He doesn’t want to take me because he’s afraid of what “might happen”. It just doesn’t make sense. I have never had jealous fits, or anything of the sort. The two incidents are the only things that have ever come up. I just don’t get it. We had that conversation Monday and it ended up with him saying, well, i can’t really afford to go anyway, so i just won’t go. But he made it seem like that was the secondary reason for not going. I told him if he wasn’t going just because of me, that that wasn’t an option and he should just go. And this was not a confrontational conversation, even though he was trying not to act angry…I could tell he was…So I did tell him to go. Not with an attitude either. My heart does not want him to go without me though. It is such a weird thing…We celebrate our one year anniv. on Friday and that reunion is on Sat. I don’t know if he’s going or not and my stomach is in knots. I don’t want to bring it up again though.

  371.  #372Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 8:37 am


    Don’t forget to pick me up on your way through.

    I’ll have my leather ready.

  372.  #373Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:38 am

    300: LilybelleNo Gravatar says:

    You know being triggered means theres something to heal there. You even know what it is.

    How about this? Forgive yourself for your perceptions of your past?

    I’ll never judge you, I’d like to see YOU not judge you.

    What say you?


    Who was this to? Or was it just to everyone in general?

  373.  #374Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:40 am

    369: RustyNo Gravatar says:

    “this be dangerous waters to be trollin…thar be crazy people here.”


    OH yeah, forgot, you have to think it using a good Captain Barbbosa voice. 😀

  374.  #375Kyla on June 22, 2011 at 8:41 am


    I feel really bad reading your posts today. I’m sorry you are so unhappy in your marriage and have decided to give up. That feels very sad to read. I usually skipped your posts because something didn’t feel right to me. I see a lot of hurt, resentment and indignation in what you say. Does your wife know you feel this way? Does she know how bad the damage is?

    There’s one thing I feel concerned about. You advise posters here to snoop, research and seek information when we are afraid of not receiving the full truth from our partner and yet when this was done to you it destroyed your trust and damaged your reputation. What do you think?

    I hope things improve for you soon and you find your happiness whatever that might look like.

  375.  #376Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 8:42 am

    @306: Jeannette says:
    “…Sirens, I can’t find any of your threads about your responses to Steve’s passing. Did anyone post anything and where?…”

    OMG!!! I am shocked. 😯 I just sent you response on this thread asking if things going OK. Please forgive. I did not see any notice from you that he did not survive. Is it on this thread? I read some posts bottom to top last night but I think I am caught up now.

    Oh, Jeannette. I am sad, shocked badly.

    (((((Hugging you))))) OMG. I’m going out with Sweetie. Now.


  376.  #377Mel on June 22, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Hey Rusty,

    I KNOW, for sure that he was at that party last night. I don’t like that my feelings were not really considered, but I can’t make him behave in any particular way. Perhaps we both need to “relearn” how to treat each other with kindness, consideration, and respect.

    I don’t want to go down the road of “more sleuthing.” That just feels bad and I won’t do it again.

    I just need to trust my instincts and feelings as I observe what happens over the next while. Actions speak louder than words. Energy speaks even louder than actions. I think, if I pay attention, I will be able to tell if he is sincere or not. And furthermore, how I am feeling about him.

    He’s contacted the marriage counselor (just waiting back on an appointment date) so I give him credit for that.

    Last night, he seemed at least willing to hear my feelings around the unexpected late night. There was no argument, which is an improvement.

    I can see we’re caught up in this circle of action-reaction, and I hope when I step out of it, he will too. This, I can’t control though.

    I don’t know what will happen. This feels frightening. But I am strong.

  377.  #378Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 8:54 am

    348: Senior Lady Vibe says:

    … unless you are writing on this blog from a prison.


    No, not from prison, though it started feeling that way, a long time ago. LOL

  378.  #379Mel on June 22, 2011 at 9:00 am


    And when I said to him “J, you know how to be a good husband.” I could FEEL the energy shift.

    Perhaps he worried that I thought he was a sucky husband.
    Perhaps he thought he DIDN’T know how, or that he could NEVER please me.
    Actually, I don’t really know what he thought when I said this, but somehow I could feel the change.

  379.  #380Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Rusty I asked you about feeling triggered because you words felt heavy and bitter. I know now the cause. I will not comment on your situation because as they say there are two sides to every story, plus there is the truth. I wish everyone happiness and it is my wish for you, whatever that means to you.

  380.  #381Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 9:15 am

    374: Kyla says:


    There’s one thing I feel concerned about. You advise posters here to snoop, research and seek information when we are afraid of not receiving the full truth from our partner and yet when this was done to you it destroyed your trust and damaged your reputation. What do you think?


    I think most things are about execution. In other words, let’s use a totally hypothetical situation but the execution here is what is real.

    Let’s say you have a husband and he is at a party with you around people that are mostly your friends from before the relationship.

    He thinks he overheard a couple of guys talking about you. He now thinks that you were a cheater, and did cheat on him.

    So instead of just coming to you and telling you what he overheard, he goes to that person that said it, or to one of the people that were there, and asks some round about questions. He finds out that this person recently had a VD, but got it cleared up.

    So your husband now goes around talking behind your back telling friends and family. He is trying to find out what he can, without coming to you.

    But then he comes to you but he pokes and prods from different directions trying to get you to spill the beans, to tell the story that he THINKS you have to tell. Of course you think he is off his rocker and want to know what has gotten into him. He retreats.

    he goes back to family and friends and bounces things off them asking, “Doesn’t that sound like blah blah blah to you?” Of course most of them will agree because that is how he is framing it. He of course has bought into it and thus tells the story in such a way that everyone else buys it.

    Furthermore, even little things, typically innocent things become proof that he is right to believe this.

    For instance, maybe all of this has caused you to become distant. And so you start to enjoy the casual conversations with a guy coworker, and you also start going to lunch with him. You aren’t interested in anything from the guy, it just refreshes you to talk to an adult who isn’t crazy…right? But he finds out and so now this also gets out to everybody.

    You see the pattern here.

    My point in saying to sleuth is this. Think of all the damage that could be saved if the hubby did two things. First, simply checked up on you. Followed you to see if you were really going to the gym, to see if like Mel’s hubby, you had a dating profile on a singles site. Checks to see if you are just out with the girls on a Thursday night or was it a date with a guy.

    But even before this, he should have just gone to the person who he thought said something and ask him, “hey, I just wanted to ask, who was the woman you were talking about?” Basically do what he has to to get the guy to verify if it was you he was talking about or not. If the guy says yes, then do the sleuthing.

    If nothing turns up, come to you and say, “Hey, this guy at the party, he said this about you. Why would he say that and is it true?”

    In the end he needs to make a choice on who to believe though. He might find out that the guy was one of her ex’s who she broke up with and he is still stinging from that. Telling you the lie was a way to get a dig in. In truth, he might have been talking about somebody else, and you can verify that.

    Point is, you can get to the truth without leaving a trail of wreckage in your wake. It’s all in the execution. Like just checking to see if he has a dating profile, for instance. But you have t have self discipline too. You don’t just do it as standard practice. And you decide before you start that you will accept not finding anything as proof that you were wrong. Too many people become addicted to it because they won’t accept anything but verification of their fears.

  381.  #382Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 9:20 am

    378: Mel says:


    And when I said to him “J, you know how to be a good husband.” I could FEEL the energy shift.

    Perhaps he worried that I thought he was a sucky husband.
    Perhaps he thought he DIDN’T know how, or that he could NEVER please me.
    Actually, I don’t really know what he thought when I said this, but somehow I could feel the change.


    Well, I do hope that it works out. It is hard for me to know for sure because I don’t know him and have never had a chance to talk to him.

    Like I said, maybe a lot of this was about his inner feeling. Like I said, he worked very hard to get through law school, which is no joke, and maybe he romanticized what his life would be like as soon as he got hired on someplace. That could have been his motivation to get through school.

    So when he gets out of school, gets on with a firm, and reality hits him in the face that it’s just more grungy nose in the books, writing legal stuff, constantly being told redo this, etc…it may have taken the wind out of his sails. He became unhappy and didn’t know why, or how to become happy again. So he chose destructive ways to find some simple pleasure in life. This isn’t much different than a person turning to drugs.

    Maybe this will be a big turn around for you guys. I hope so.

  382.  #383Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 9:23 am

    @308: Daria says:
    “…I Do feel impressed by lots of money. I feel intrigued, like this person may have something to teach me. I look up to them for having that….”

    Daria, girlfriend, you are too much. LOL 😆 Laughing with you that you are impressed by LOTS of money even while you tell us you don’t believe that money exists. We don’t believe you but we luvs you…. 😉

    Money can be very convenient; however I gaze into my crystal ball and predict there will come a time when you will believe money exists but you will also be less impressed with it. Sort of the opposite of what you say now.

    Anyway, life is short, it’s all fun.


  383.  #384Mel on June 22, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Re 380,

    Rusty this actually tells me a LOT about what my husband must be feeling about my “snooping.”

    It’s something I deeply regret.

  384.  #385Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 9:28 am


    It was to post 300.

    But hey, I try to take what works for me, whether it is intended for me or not. 🙂

  385.  #386Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 9:29 am

    We didn’t go for coffee. Sweetie doesn’t feel good; I don’t either after staying up all night.

    I made a batch of Crystal Light lemonade drink with big chunks of ice and we are sipping that until we rehydrate ourselves. Maybe I’ll catch up on posts and go out later. I am blessed. I am thankful.


  386.  #387Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 9:30 am


    I MEANNNNN, it was in reply to Kaitlyn, post 298.

    Sheesh…I’m something.

  387.  #388Mel on June 22, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Hey Lilybelly,

    You ARE something! :p

  388.  #389Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 9:39 am


    Hee Hee

    I was having a small battle with my NV’s this morning. They were telling me things that aren’t true.

    I won and now remember that I AM something. 😉

  389.  #390Kyla on June 22, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Thanks Rusty. I can see how the public humiliation element of the first scenario would make it harder to heal.

    Hmmm… I think between the risk of sabotaging trust unnecessarily and driving myself demented searching for ‘clues’ its a fine line I’d be safer not treading should I ever be tempted!

    I respect privacy so much that when planning a surprise party for R in April I went to extreme lengths to find alternative ways to contact people in order to not have to look through his phone book! It would’ve felt invasive to go through his personal things without his permission. I also never feared he’d find out by looking through my phone or emails. I guess anything less than total respect for privacy is a deal breaker for me.

  390.  #391Marlo on June 22, 2011 at 9:48 am

    As a newcomer to this awesome forum, I’d like to purge the 25 years of my marriage which ended in divorce on the exact day of my 25th wedding anniversary:

    Pursued by Mr. Wonderful.
    Kept all other guys away from me.
    Followed me everywhere and asked me to marry him in a beautiful romantic place. Shut him down twice and on the 3rd time I said yes.
    Had 3 beautiful children while I stayed home with the kids and he furthered his career very well.

    Circumstances brought all 3 kids with life-threatening illnesses, but all came through very well and are alive and well today. Thank God.
    Put my career on hold to nurture and raise children and support my husband’s heavy travel schedule as he climbed to the top of the ladder.
    Got certain feelings that he was cheating, confronted him and it was always denied.
    Even through the kids’ hospitalizations and unwanted drama and pain that goes along with it, I sensed something. I virtually went through all that “alone”.
    The you-know-what finally hit the fan when a friend asked me to listen to her. It pained her because she knew what I was always going through. She told me anyway that he was seen and he was cheating.

    He still denied it even caught red handed.
    After 25 years of all this I finally thought about MYSELF! The divorce papers were served, I went back to school and back to work, and I have never felt so hurt and used and devastated all at once. I managed to finish my degree, work full-time, and keep a good motherly hand on my 3 children.
    The amount of disgust I feel for this man is not normal. What a fool I was.
    By the way, he entertained his boss and clients at our home all the time to gain kudos and to show off my gourmet cooking and homemaking skills. Brag, brag, brag about me and my unflinching commitment to our family. People still wonder how I didn’t fall apart with the kids all being sick.
    Anyhow, the man done me wrong in such a huge way that I don’t know how I can ever trust another man.
    I have always maintained my body and appearance to be pleasing and healthy. I weigh no more than a firm 115 lbs, have almost no gray hair (not that that really matters) no wrinkles, no fat, great teeth, nice clothes, etc., etc., In other words I never let myself go. I am in my 50s and I look like 30s.
    What in the world happened? I thought I was doing all the right things. We weren’t fighting, I was playing by all the rules, had raised a great family, laugh all the time and have lots of wonderful friends. How did I get kicked in the stomach so bad? How could anybody treat me that way? I didn’t and don’t ever deserve someone treating me that way. I would never, never, ever treat anyone that way.
    Since we have divorced, I have my own condo, excellent job, awesome relationships with my kids and family and friends and co-workers. He has lost his job, become dependent on prescription drugs, embarrassed himself and the kids, spent all the money from the proceeds of the sale of our home, boat, etc. He has aliented most of our friends because they think he has gone off the deep end and acts like he is out of his mind. He still emails me and calls me and asks to be at the holiday dinners and Sunday dinners. He is asking to borrow money from me, asking for food, etc. His family (mom and sis) have blamed me for his downfall because I should have stood by his side always. This man cheated on me for the entire duration of our marriage, and I’m surprised that I don’t have some kind of communicable disease from wherever he’s been all over the world.
    Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic is all I can say.
    So, therefore, nice never did it for me in my marriage and now I would like to find a companion without mistrusting him right from the start.
    Having read all the emails and getting the CDs from Rori, I have been enlightened like never before. This is the only thing that is catching my interest and makes perfect sense. Reading books upon books, praying, talking to people, and just waiting for something good to happen ISN’T WORKING!
    Plus, there are a lot of guys out there who don’t know I’m 50+ and they are young and very lustful, shall I say. Very complimentary and flattering, but that’s not where I want to go. The guys my age seem “older” than me and lots of them have let themselves go. There doesn’t seem to be any energy left in them and they are falling apart physically. HELP!
    Anyhow, I am so looking forward to getting this series online. I have plenty of time to read these pearls of wisdom after work!

    Thanks so much, and I’d like to know if I sound like a complainer or not. It’s like a bad dream that I need to wake up from, only it’s not a dream.


  391.  #392Mel on June 22, 2011 at 9:51 am


    Man! I really LOVE the “scripts” in 105! 🙂 Just read them again and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE them!

  392.  #393Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 9:51 am

    @314: Jeannette says:
    “…Maybe my post didn’t make it on Mon. After receiving a liver on Sat morn. Steve experienced a cardiac arrest….”

    This is the last of your posts that I had read. I was so excited and rooting for you two. My condolences for your loss.

    I believe that you and Steve were a comfort to each other, even those times when you sniped at each other a bit… just like youngsters in love… 😀 I’m guessing he kind of liked that too. Don’t feel guilty, Steve’s life was better with you than it would have been without you. You reunited at just the right time.


  393.  #394FlowerChild77 on June 22, 2011 at 9:53 am

    (((((Jeannette))))) The last post I remember from you was about Steve having the heart attack. I am SO sorry for your loss. <3

    Please try not to think back and beat yourself up for things you "should" or "shouldn't" have done. You need to be kind and gentle with yourself now.

    We are here for you. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

  394.  #395tinque on June 22, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Lilybelly – #233 Big LIKE…


  395.  #396Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Mel that’s type of juicy things I save from Rori’s emails and articles. Glad to see it is helping you.

  396.  #397Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Tinque I am sure you meant 234. Ditto.

  397.  #398Mel on June 22, 2011 at 9:57 am

    You are a wealth of information FW! You always seem to find exactly the quote that says it so perfectly.

  398.  #399Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 10:01 am

    @321: Joy

    LonePlum posted in several places on this thread, links to videos and also some counseling information. This could be a start.

    You can search for her posts by submitting her username in the “find” box when you open the “Edit” tab at top of your computer browser.

    I hope this helps.


  399.  #400Mel on June 22, 2011 at 10:10 am

    I talked about this a little yesterday with Daria… (Thanks again Daria you ROCK!) but I’m still a little unsure of WHEN to share feeling messages.

    I was feeling like if I always approached him to “share” that it was ACTUALLY leaning forward, because it sort of felt like masculine energy to do this.

    But at the same time, it doesn’t always feel good to wait until he asks me “what do you think?” or “what’s up?”

    So how do you start FMs if you are the one approaching him?

    Something’s been bothering me…
    I’m unsure about something…

    Like in FW’s example: “I’m just a girl here and I can’t deal without contact – it makes me feel unloved and unwanted”

    I would love to share something like that with him. Especially considering how lately I feel like I am a wilted flower without any physical touch. I’m not even talking about sex at this point (although it feels like it’s been SOOOO long) but just the gentle caress, holding hands, hand on my lower back, kiss on the forehead… I’m just melting thinking about it…

    But i don’t just want to say “Hey, ______” because that seems almost masculine. Without him bringing up the subject.

    FM’s are really complicated! It’s not as easy as it seems!

  400.  #401Mel on June 22, 2011 at 10:12 am

    And I know now might not be the best time… it’s just something I’ve been thinking about.

  401.  #402Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 10:17 am


    Thank you, Tinque.

  402.  #403Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 10:18 am

    @322: Femininewoman says:
    “…RE 302 SLV You are precious….”

    Oh, I hope you don’t mean twee. LOL 😆 But I am authentically determined to enjoy my life right down to the very last drop.

    I had an accident and a recent illness that have convinced me that life is short, that health and time are the true wealth… according to… me. I’m grabbing the gusto… if I can. I don’t mean to bore or offend anyone.


  403.  #404Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Confidence Tip I just got, for whoever is interested


    You know how to tell a low-confidence person when you see one? Easy — just look at their posture!

    Do they look like they’re slouching, as though their heads were so heavy their necks had to lean forward? Or do they carry their heads up high, proud and strong?

    People, not just women, were hard-wired by Mother Nature from the beginning to give away our emotions through body language. In the case of low self-confidence, for instance, we show our submission by
    slouching, hiding (protecting) our vital organs.

    And how do you fix this problem? I found the answer a while back when watching an episode of “Dog Whisperer.” (No joke!) In that episode, Cesar Millan solved a dog’s fear issues by using the leash to hold its tail up high while walking through the neighborhood. Almost instantly, the dog felt braver and more confident, no longer shrinking away from
    walkers, cars, and strollers!

    Goes to show you can learn from the funniest of sources! So go ahead and try “lifting your tail.” Practice
    holding your head straight above your shoulders, neck straight.

    The results may surprise you! People suddenly start treating you a little more respectfully. You feel more
    confident, and conversations are easier to start.

    And suddenly, cute guys don’t seem so scary and nerve-wracking anymore!

    Of course, it takes a lot of practice before you’ll have the proper posture by default. So keep at it. Whenever you feel like you’re hanging your head,
    remind yourself to straighten up and look more confident. When you stand tall and confident, you’ll instantly look prettier, sexier, and more attractive to the right kinds of men!

  404.  #405tinque on June 22, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Sending you much love Jeanette


  405.  #406Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 10:27 am

    389: Kyla says:

    I guess anything less than total respect for privacy is a deal breaker for me.


    I understand that and respect your thinking, but I guess I see life as a bit more complicated. AIDS for instance is a very real reality.

    The question is, if something has raised red flags for you, how do you handle it? There is nothing wrong with finding out the truth. It seems some simply say that because privacy is so sacred, that you have to put yourself at risk. I don’t believe that.

    I think if it were me in that situation, I would have went right to that person and asked them who it was that he was talking about. In a friendly manner of course. Hopefully that would have solved it right away. But if it didn’t, and I took an inventory of my situation, I might say, OK, if she is cheating, when and how is she cheating? OK, she goes to the gym every Mon, Wed, and Fri. If she is cheating, it has to be then. So I check. If it turns out she isn’t, then I leave it at that. But I would also then go way out of my way to do something nice for her…just because.

    The danger, as I said, for most people is that at the point they decide to “sleuth” they aren’t really looking for the truth, they are looking for confirmation of their fears, and thus, they keep looking and end up on a destructive path.

    I am the type that would own it right there. OK, this was my problem, she isn’t doing anything wrong and I have to just deal with the fact that the red flags were wrong…this isn’t her problem so don’t put it on her…just do something really really nice for her to show her how much I appreciate her.

    That’s who I am.

  406.  #407tinque on June 22, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Rusty – I feel very sorry for your pain.


  407.  #408Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Mel if you say “Hey….” It could come over as a demand or harsh request. Look at these below see if anything resonates. As usual they are from my treasure trove.

    1. Can we talk for a minute? “You know, I feel weird about bringing this up, but……………………I don’t want to make a big deal out of it, but I feel let down when a man……………..”I’ve noticed that sometimes I’m feeling really uncomfortable. I’m not sure if I’m misinterpreting………………..
    The chemistry/connection I felt with you was so strong that it kind of blew me away. I enjoyed that “connected” feeling I had with you, and I miss it. ”
    It would feel so good to be close to you like I used to feel. What do you think/feel?
    I feel badly I lashed out. I wish I could take it back. I wish things hadn’t escalated to such a degree in the first place. But now don’t feel safe. I fear this will happen again. I want a relationship that embodies love, care, trust and respect.”

    Just remember asking questions can possibly push him away. RR says love is easy, it makes Me feels good, warm, safe, happy, free.

    From CCarter

    I believe that a relationship is in your life to take you to a “higher place” together with your partner… to where you and your lover find and bring out the best in each other.

    It’s in relationships that we grow as people, and find even greater expressions of our love.

    Relationships aren’t meant to be for us to grow small, to cut each other down, leave the toilet seat up so the other falls through and forget to take out the trash… and to generally drive each other crazy.

    Relationships are there to make our lives better.

  408.  #409Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 10:46 am

    RE 403 I mean it SLV. Those kinds of things really bring our focus back to what is really important. I felt that way standing by my fathers bedside in the hospital couple months ago. He was on sedatives so was kind of unaware of surroundings.

  409.  #410Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 10:50 am

    233: Lilybelle says:


    And equally as many “pretty people” have had those very doors slammed in their faces because they were so ugly inside. It matters who a person is on the inside…more so, imo, than on the outside.

    Chemistry and attraction is personal, no matter what research says. It just is. I’ll take experience over research papers, anyday.


    You are talking apples and oranges. And to an extent, you made my point. I said, a person with great looks has doors opened for them by those looks, but somebody who is less good looking has to develop their personality more. SO we are in agreement that looks, while opening doors for you, aren’t the end all or be all.

    You are talking though about what keeps you attracted, I am saying simply that if you have good looks, the more doors are open to you. What you do with those open doors is another story. If you are dark and ugly inside, MOST of those doors will close on you.

    But then, you said, experience is what matters. Well watching some of my guy friends who are very very good looking, and very successful, not that many doors actually close to them. Friends I have talked with about this agree that it has something to do with the women hoping that they will be the one to change him. That while he is a pig, he is a great looking pig, and has the big house, boat, cars, lifestyle, etc… and if only they can tame him, all will be wonderful in the world…after all, aren’t all successful guys playboys until the right woman tames him? That is their thinking, the best we can figure it out.

    Plus, there is that “settling” thing. I mean, once she has seen Paris, can you expect her to be happy living on the farm? In other words, once they had it in their head that they were going to be one of the big winners in life by getting the guy that has it all, great looks, great career, tons of money, etc…even when the guy turns out to be a cad and tosses her out for the next girl, she has had a taste of the good life. Can she be happy being married to a manager at McDonalds?

    Some people do wake up though, like you. You do realize that somebody like that is just a black hole that will suck you dry and toss you aside when he’s done.

    That doesn’t change the fact that he has those good looks and they will continue to open new doors for him. And that was my point.

    And I can go to posts right on this blog where women were talking about their CDs and they would talk about two or three and invariably there is a guy in there that is just the nicest sweetest lady even said he was stable…but the chemistry with one of the other CDs was way way hotter and thus she couldn’t settle for the “stable” guy.

    It is what it is. I have talked about this before, that I believe that you have to stop being tempted by the more appealing sweet fruit, and learn to be happy with the more healthy and nutritious vegetables…so to speak. 😉 In other words, if every woman would wake up like you, then they would realize that Mr. Stable is the one to keep them happy long term, if she can learn to adjust her vision, as you have, and see his great qualities and be attracted to that.

    But first you have to learn that the pretty face is a lie. You’ve done that, most haven’t. This is an every increasingly beauty obsessed culture we live in. People have tried to change that for decades. It will never change. It’s been this way not for decades but for eons.

  410.  #411mali on June 22, 2011 at 11:02 am

    I haven’t posted on here in a while, but I just needed the chance to vent.
    There’s a male at work who’s very flirtatious with a few of the girls… I’m leaving my job this week, and I had hoped, just hoped, that he’d step upto the plate and ask me out.
    But he didn’t. *sigh* And I feel so sad…!

  411.  #412Mel on June 22, 2011 at 11:06 am

    “I mean, once she has seen Paris, can you expect her to be happy living on the farm?”

    I want a farm! 😉

    I think there are just as many women who really don’t care as much about looks and money.

    For me, as long as the love of my life is happy doing what he’s doing, then that works for me. I guess the only exception is that I don’t want to “take care of” anyone. I’m done with that!

    As far as looks go, there are certain things that I would find unappealing- like if the person were really overweight (because I’m quite active), or had poor hygiene… but beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

    I find my husband sexy and handsome. But I’m not sure everyone would. He’s not a “pretty boy” but I find his uniqueness extremely attractive. For example, he says he hates his teeth because he thinks they are crooked, but I LOVE his smile! He thinks his hair gets unruly when it “needs a cut” but I LOVE his curls. He says his long arms are “gangly” but I LOVE to have them wrapped around me.

    I do really LOVE him… 🙂 Sniff.

  412.  #413tinque on June 22, 2011 at 11:11 am

    I think there are more awake women and men too than one may believe.


  413.  #414Senior Lady Vibe on June 22, 2011 at 11:12 am

    “.. leave the toilet seat up so the other falls through…”

    This is a small matter of disagreement in some relationships. I wondered how many of you have “fallen in?” I did once, in tiptoeing around in the middle of a dark, COLD night. A very unpleasant surprise. And another surprise, it cured the guy who didn’t figure out before that it could ever matter.


  414.  #415tinque on June 22, 2011 at 11:18 am

    I don’t see the big deal in the toilet seat thing. Never have, but funny enough K and my ex both took to peeing sitting down after awhile. Solves any possible fall through problem. lol


  415.  #416Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 11:20 am

    413: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    “.. leave the toilet seat up so the other falls through…”

    This is a small matter of disagreement in some relationships. I wondered how many of you have “fallen in?” I did once, in tiptoeing around in the middle of a dark, COLD night. A very unpleasant surprise. And another surprise, it cured the guy who didn’t figure out before that it could ever matter.


    I simply wonder why that invention never took off. A guy made something out of paper, that like those flat paper cups, can stand up to being wet for long enough to do the job. It was contoured and allowed a woman to pee standing up. I’ll never understand why that never took off, what with all of these dirty public restrooms..

    Here’s one of them.

  416.  #417Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 11:44 am


    I couldn’t agree more, Tinque. At least, that has been my experience.

  417.  #418Island Girl on June 22, 2011 at 11:47 am

    ((((((Jeannette)))))) I’m so very, very sorry. You know that Steve loved you and he knew that you loved him. For me, that’s all there really is.

  418.  #419Island Girl on June 22, 2011 at 11:50 am

    As for the toilet seat, I always keep the lid down. That way everyone has to lift something (so nobody feels put upon) and nothing (or nobody ;-p) ends up in the bowl by accident.
    It’s also supposed to be bad feng shui to have the lid up.

  419.  #420Island Girl on June 22, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Mel @318 — Yay!!!

  420.  #421Scarlet on June 22, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Speaking of looks. Would anyone here go for a man that was physically unattractive but treated you great and was just a great guy overall? I’ve been friends with this guy for the past 8 months and he treats me like a queen, opens doors, pays for everything, gives me everything I want. And I feel great around him. It’s so easy, the conversation just flows, we laugh about everything, there’s never any need to pretend with each other. But the only thing is that he’s not attractive, like at all. And we would look so odd together and I know all my friends and family would judge me and I don’t want to feel embarrassed of someone that I’m dating. But I know he really likes me and I don’t know what to do. I get so excited every time I see him but I can’t get myself to feel a physical attraction to him, even though I definitely feel an emotional attraction. Anyone been through this before or can offer some advice?

  421.  #422Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 12:15 pm


    All I can say is that you have to decide for yourself, and take what others will say or think about you completely out of the equation. Will their opinion now, matter in the future, if a guy they think is a good match for you ends up hurting you in some manner?

    You have to decide for yourself. You can’t go through life trying to please other people, and seek their approval. The only person you should be trying to please with your selection of a man, is YOURSELF.

  422.  #423tinque on June 22, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Scarlet – If you’re attracted, you’re attracted. It doesn’t matter what he looks like. This will change over time anyway.

    When I first went out with K, he was not at all the look I usually went for aside from the tallness. He wasn’t ugly, but he is far from a pretty boy.

    I decided to give him a chance anyway, and I’m SO glad I did.

    We have a profoundly intimate relationship which grows deeper and better all the time. We recently had our nine year anniversary.

    Keep your heart and your mind open. See what evolves. You may be very pleasantly surprised.

  423.  #424Femininewoman on June 22, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Scarlet I have more than once. Consistency was the most important key for me there and I found that even though they were in my eyes “unattractive” they still did the rubber banding pulling back and forth. I now understand that it was about me and how I was with myself and what I wanted in my life.

  424.  #425Nikita on June 22, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I’m so sorry Jeanette…
    my condolences to you and his family.

  425.  #426turquoise3 on June 22, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Ok…. so totally not expecting this today, but my ex husband emailed and wants to buy the girls and I a much bigger/nicer house to live in, and I pay him the same rent I am paying now. He’ll cover the rest of the mortgage. I cannot possibly afford to buy a house now, will be renting a long time unless my situation would greatly change… so this would be amazing! The one house we both like has a heated pool and is in my town, so girls wouldn’t have to change schools!

    Whoohooo…. not sure where this is coming from, but I am excited!

  426.  #427Lilybelle on June 22, 2011 at 1:03 pm



    Whoo Hoo, Sister.

  427.  #428Island Girl on June 22, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    turquoise – YAY!!

  428.  #429FlowerChild77 on June 22, 2011 at 1:21 pm


    If you could just allow yourself to receive from this man, sensually and physically, it could blow everything you ever thought you knew about yourself and sex right out of the water!

    This was something I had to learn for myself, but once I did sex was never the same for me—it’s SO much better than I ever imagined 🙂

    I believe a lot of women miss out on great men because they’re so unwilling to discover that the same man who makes them feel good outside the bedroom can make them feel good in the bedroom–and it has nothing to do with our ‘usual’/past/scripted definition of “attraction.”

    It’s like we want help with how to talk to men and how to make things different; we’re willing to work on all that and move forward–but when it comes to sex, we want to ‘go back’ to what we’re “used to” because it’s all we know. (For me, what I used to think was ‘attraction’ (chemistry) was anxiety…and because I didn’t read it as a red flag, it just always got me in trouble.)

    I was nearly 40y/o before I learned to allow myself to receive in this way. I’ll never go back… 😉

  429.  #430Lyricalgirl on June 22, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    I’ve been lurking for a while. Simple question I wanted to ask, how does one recieve a gift from a man and (if it’s a man you really like) not seem too overly enthusiastic? One of my patterns of the past was being soooooo grateful for even the tiniest gift and I am learning, this is not good for me. It feels like this gives them the impression that they could give me a terd and I’d be happy and metaphorically speaking, that’s what I got eventually. A terd. SO, I want to break this cycle, I want to be open to recieving gifts ( I deserve them dammit, I rock!) while expressing the appropriate level of gratitude. Is just “thank you” enough?

  430.  #431FlowerChild77 on June 22, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Also, Rori talks about the only thing that matters is how this man makes you FEEL. Whether you feel good and safe and cared about when you’re with him–and when you’re not with him. 🙂

  431.  #432turquoise3 on June 22, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I’m so sorry Jeanette! I just got caught up on the posts. I wish I could say something to make you feel better. Just know we are here for you!

  432.  #433DCD on June 22, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    I am filled with anxiety over my bf wanting to go to his 40th class reunion without me. how do i stop this nonesense?

  433.  #434DCD on June 22, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    every day of our relationship i have felt good and safe with him. he brought up the reunion and not wanting me to go with him on monday. i have been filled with anxiety ever since. we have always done everything with each other since we started dating a year ago. we have never excluded the other one ever.

  434.  #435FlowerChild77 on June 22, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    torquoise3—-This sounds so great! Do you know for sure that it’s an honest offer on his part—where he wouldn’t be looking for control of any kind, down the road, because you live in ‘his’ house and he’s giving you such a deal?

    NOT trying to be a party-pooper—just something I’d be curious about is all. What a blessing this could be for you and your girls 🙂

  435.  #436Brenda on June 22, 2011 at 1:46 pm


    Thank you so much for your rich comments…I love this blog, and the women (and men) on it!

  436.  #437FlowerChild77 on June 22, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    DCD, I totally understand and I admit that, at first, I would feel ‘left out’ also and be feeling anxious about it.


    If he had a lot of friends in HS and he expects he’ll be talking to a lot of them and reminiscing about old times–he may feel that it would be boring for you, as you’d have nothing to add to the conversation and no one would know you. (It may make you feel more ‘left out’ than not going.)

    He also may feel like he won’t enjoy it as much because he’d have to kind of ‘take care of you’ because you won’t know anyone and he knows it would be rude to just carry on while you sit there alone.

  437.  #438tinque on June 22, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    DCD – If he’s given you no reason not to trust him, then you just have to keep telling yourself this, over and over and over again, every five seconds if need be.

    And then do things that feel good to you. Spend time with people you love to spend time with while he’s at this thing.


  438.  #439tinque on June 22, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Lyricalgirl – If you love the gift, big or small, melt and say thank you and be excited or whatever feel real to you in this moment.

    If you don’t love it, say thank you anyway, but you don’t need to not would you want to gush if you’re not being honest about it.

    If it’s really, really special, and the excitement and joy continue, go ahead and bring it up again.

    Be authentic.


  439.  #440Rusty on June 22, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    434: FlowerChild77 says:

    torquoise3—-This sounds so great! Do you know for sure that it’s an honest offer on his part—where he wouldn’t be looking for control of any kind, down the road, because you live in ‘his’ house and he’s giving you such a deal?

    NOT trying to be a party-pooper—just something I’d be curious about is all. What a blessing this could be for you and your girls 🙂


    That might be a normal thought but Turquoise has made posts before about how he did really nice things for her. IMHO he still has very strong feelings for her, even if he isn’t perfect. One day, when he is mellower, and more in control, he will be perfect for her.

    My feeling is that this offer is just like the other ways he has helped and it’s just my opinion, but I do think he wants her back.