Are You In An Imaginary Relationship

Untitled design (14)

Have you ever focused all your attention on one man, and still felt completely unsure about where things stand?

Even after a year or two?

Where you just don’t feel like he’s committed to you, or that you have a future together, but you talk yourself OUT of that feeling and just keep going on hope?

I used to be the queen of that – I’d hang in with a man – believing that just because I was still THERE, he loved me. Just because I was still THERE, he was “serious” about me.

I was the queen of the “Imaginary Relationship.”

Here’s a letter from Helen, who’s struggling with the reality of her long relationship with a man she loves…

“Dear Rori, I am seeing this guy and he does not want to commit. We saw each other for 18months, we separated for about 8months then got back.We have been back together for about a year now. He lost his wife three years ago to cancer .

Whenever I ask relationship questions – like ‘I wish you would introduce me to your friends because when I am in front of them I feel uncomfortable because I don’t know if they are into you or not, or who did you go out of town with and who are they to you,’ this is his answer to me: ‘We are not in a relationship, when you ask me these questions you make me want to withdraw and what does it matter to you who these people are or if I introduce you to them? I am not anyone’s boyfriend or committed to anyone so don’t ask me relationship questions. When I find someone I will let you know, and you know how these questions aggravate me, and if you want us to get along don’t ask me these type of questions.’

He also has pictures of different women in the house and he says they are just friends (he’s in the picture with them.) I don’t know how to answer this because I love him so much. We sleep together.I see him at least two to three times a week, I spend the nights at his house and his mother and children know about me. His daughters are practically like my children and I love them too.

Lately he has been talking to me more – sharing what he’s doing, and I commend him for that and I use a lot of my feelings with him that I learned from your book. I also try to act like I trust him and try not to ask too many questions, but at least once every two or three weeks I ask something and all hell breaks loose and the above answer is what I always get.

I ask these questions because I get emotional and hurt and afraid he’s taking someone out of town or seeing someone else, and yet I know there’s nothing I can do. He has 3 pictures of himself with three different women and in one of them he is holding the lady like they are in love and I have to see these pictures every time I’m there.And he just says they’re friends but there are no pictures of me.

He seems to have many women friends. So I wonder how many of us is he sleeping with. I am not dating anyone else or haven’t since my divorce five years ago – he has been the only other man. I spend a lot of time with his kids- we’re like mother and daughters . Please help, yours sincerely, Helen.”

Here’s my answer:

Helen – I’m going to be very tough on you right now, so don’t read further if you don’t want to hear:

You are in an Imaginary Relationship. This means you think you’re in a Real Relationship, even though he said to you, clearly – “We are not in a relationship,” and has pictures of other women everywhere and none of you. You are in complete denial of your situation.

Please do this for me: Wrap your arms around yourself, give yourself a huge hug (I’m hugging you from here…) and then jump up and down to shake the cobwebs out of your head.

Say out loud, as though he’s in front of you: ” Now I hear you. We are just dating. I’m not committed, I should be dating other men. Now I see. I’m free, as are you.”

Then, right now, this minute, go to your closet, pick out some clothes for the week where you change all your colors to pinks and lavenders and baby blues, change everything to soft fabrics that make you feel soft and sexy, then change your hair a bit with some color streaks or a color rinse, and go out and flirt with men.

You cannot bring him close to you by WANTING him more. You can not excite him, attract him, or make him WANT YOU more by pressing him.

Even THINKING about him makes your “vibe” seem needy, clingy and desperate to him. This is simply not attractive to him – and it makes your self-esteem take a nose-dive.

Take your focus OFF of him, and do this:

1. Find something really, really important to you to focus on (work, volunteering, art projects, school…) and focus on it.

2. Schedule time to just hang out with yourself in your own home so you can learn to ENJOY your own company, tolerate your fear and loneliness when you’re with yourself, and raise your self-esteem and your Degree of Difficulty.

3. Schedule time to get out, go places, do things on your own or with friends that are really INTERESTING – things you enjoy, that you can learn from, and that are FUN for you – AND where there are men.

Smile at these other men. Practice my Rori Raye Dance Position in their presence. Make eye contact and keep it for 5 seconds (it feels much longer than it sounds).

Let them come up to you and start conversations. Let them ask for your phone number. Give it to them. Go to coffee with them. Go to lunch with them. Go walking in a park with them.

Learn to do feeling messages and feel comfortable in your own skin around men – men you find attractive and men you don’t find attractive. Just get out there and practice and learn.

This is your best bet in 2 ways:

1. It’s your best bet to get this man you love re-attracted to you, and to compel him to want to commit to you…

2. It’s your best bet to meet a man who might be even better than this man, love you more than he does, and want to claim you quickly.

Try this, please. The way you’re approaching this is damaging to you, and will not help you get the man you want.

Let me know here how this works for you…Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Melissa on May 17, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    WOW! This was EXACTLY the thing that I needed right now! What you have said here puts everything into perspective! I do fine for 2 or 3 days then something happens and I am right back where i started. I am going to keep the imaginary relationship quip in my mind AT ALL times. Thank you!

  2.  #2Turtle Girl on May 17, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    What is so interesting about this post is that it is super easy to see that Helen is being screwed over big time, that what he tells her is ridiculous and she needs to get the hell out of there asap!!!!

    But when we in in similar situations like this-we can’t see our own shit. WOW……….I am sooooooooo glad I got out of my relationship with ex toxic man….oh so glad, thank you god for this blog and the ability to finally break free from a complete loser imaginary relationship. Denial is a total bitch. What we do to ourselves is just insane and harmful. Never again…… just boggles my mind how it happened in the first place. The crap I used to put up with from that man. AND what a difference that CD’ing makes. I can have one man or two drop off the radar and it ain’t no big thang, I feel so much better dating this way. When it’s one man, one devoted thing, it turns in to this thing just like Helen. They tell you right to your face and still we don’t believe. Shit. Poor Helen.

  3.  #3Lucy on May 17, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    “You cannot bring him close to you by WANTING him more.”

    I feel so much power and truth in that statement.

    Hehe, I wish it wasn’t true though!

    Getting Closer Man once said, “Wanting is a different energy than having. As long as you are in ‘wanting,’ you can’t ‘have.'”

    I kinda know what he means by that, but still kinda unsure.

    I also feel kinda confused about how the negative energy of “wanting” pushes a man a way but at the same time “wanting” is fuel for the law of attraction and whatnot and is supposed to bring us what we want.

    Anyone know what I mean?

    I would love to have clarity on that. Thank you.

  4.  #4Simply Shannon on May 17, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    I am in an imaginary relationship. Not by his doing, but by my own.

    Where I just don’t feel like I’m committed to him, or that we have a future together, but I keep talking myself OUT of that feeling and just keep going on hope/comfort?

    Yep. Gosh, why is it so hard to tell the truth?

    Listen Mr. Fab Kisser. I love you. I think you’re amazing, but lately I feel annoyed. Our beliefs don’t match up. You’re a pessimist, I’m an optimist. I want to be encouraged sometimes to try different things. And I’m sick to death of excuses from you.

    It is amazing how resentment builds and builds. No wonder people end up exploding at each other.

  5.  #5Gigi on May 17, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    This is my understanding…I think “wanting” helps you identify what you want and don’t want. But once you identify what you want, shift into feeling how good you will feel once having it so that you are in the good feeling vibes of “having” rather then staying stuck in the “wanting.” “Having” feels good, while just “wanting’ feels needy.

  6.  #6Sheri Amor on May 17, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    I’m doing all these things!
    Yet the man I want is going through the death of his Father! I have been seeing other men whaike waiting for him………..he text me mostly & expresses when things are settled we will see each other……..I’m so triing to be there for him yet not smother yet wait……….I adore him yet we grew you together & we have not seen each other in 27 years!
    Just emails text & a few phonr calls over the past 4 mouths ! We where speaking daily up until his Father took very ill & past away two weeks ago……
    I know he is hurting & needs time…………
    He expresses great affection toward me yet makes no attemts to see me……….how nuch time do I give him……… I call or just back off completly till I hear from him…………tis is the longest silence we have had since Feb ……..7 days………..I know!
    I’m into him…………but yes it’s an Imaginary Realationship for us both……….how do I make it real we have such a connection & we both have express this……….I think it scares the crap out of him!
    He even said wow I’m getting caught up!
    I have an effect on him like no other has before………he said wow how would have know after all these years…………yet he has not wanted to see me nor does he call hardly JUST TEXT or email?
    We do live 3 hrs from each other & his Father past away only 2 weeks ago………….so how much time does on give………..well I have not seen him in 27 years so I guess a few more weeks or months????
    Do I call ? Text or write to him !
    Or be completly quite?????
    any one have any tips on this one!

  7.  #7mary on May 17, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    i can’t wait to read this!

    just a thought for now; sorry, i haven’t read any of the comments yet.

    i’m finding it so difficult to keep some sense of Mary while dating. i’m so ready to abandon her and go for what the guy needs, somehow fit her into his life.

    i know that’s not good.

    fighting, fighting, fighting to keep some semblance of separateness…

  8.  #8Jilly on May 17, 2010 at 8:01 pm seriously I am meeting the weirdest men! So I had a date with feelings man…there was no attraction for me at all…he seemed too into me from the get go..I never like that…then I met a nice normal guy but no attraction…I felt myself wanting to leave within the hour. Then last night I was on match and this guy im’ed me and after asking a lot of questions started to get weird like asking about other men and that he liked booze and naughty things…I said I had to go. Then just now this other guy from match started texting me and he even asked if that was ok…I said as long as he was normal 😉 then he asked if I wanted kids (to me that’s a weird question to ask someone right off the bat)..I do (I’m 30) then he said if we fall in love he would want us to have a kid together…WHOA! that’s not all though (after that comment I felt something might not be quite right… then he asked where I lived…about 45 mins from him and I work an hour north of that then he said it would be hard for us to make it work and good luck….WTF! Is that psycho??????? I never even talked to him on the phone…i feel triggered…I feel lucky I escaped that one…what’s the message??? mirror??? Am I psycho?? Apparently I’m not healing!!

  9.  #9Jilly on May 17, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    ok…for the record I am using feeling messages like they are going out of style…sometimes even the guys start saying feeling messages 😉 it cracks me up…I laugh a little bit to myself.

    Soo…..what could these guys be telling me? My dating record is asshole..unavailable and too nice…they typically all fall into those categories lol…except a few rare ones. I’m too tired to figure it out tonight…maybe I don’t have too..maybe by just’s enough to break the pattern?? 😉

  10.  #10Sheri Amor on May 17, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    ok well could not help myself & I texted him!
    something sweet kind of sexy!
    which is how we text……….endearing yet sexy!

    He text right back he just landed in another city on a buisness trip………his work is way crazy since his fathers death he is playing catch up!

    Well I said something……like I miss our thing? yet it’s like a sweet foggy dream you & I have…..I’d like to wake up & find you there!

    He text me back & said ……quote “soon you will wake up next to me”
    then some other cute stuff……

    WOW he says this stuff……….yet does he mean it!

    I’m have been dating others yet I can only think about being with him……….it makes me not even want to be with with any other man!

    I have it bad for him………..
    I have my own life working on my degree ! start a new part time job this week!
    go out dancing flirt………..oh I’m a huge flirt!

    yet I miss & want to BE with this one guy…….
    I think I’m falling for him nope I have ……
    just shoot me now!
    he always says soon …. in time….. when I get things settled……….rrrrrrrrr
    I need to see him to know if I want more or to move on it’s driving me crazy!

  11.  #11Sheri Amor on May 17, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    oh Jilly****
    I found match & other meet & greet sights……
    Men are well yes weird! and or desprite
    I would get so many emails it was such a waist of time…….even found an old boy friend there stocking me reviewing my page from time to time!
    I finally emailed him & called him out on it!
    I meet one nice guy! I still talk to him but he lives to far away & a sweet heart but I’m not into him!
    I have been doing the old school …… meet them out on the town our thru friends or old freinds re connect has been better for me!
    There are some real creapy guys out there!
    I meet a guy on line that became my stocker as well!
    So be carefull & do not tell them to much info & if you do meet them take a friend & or meet in a way public place & tell 2 or 3 people where & when & get as much info on him! I have even text there car plate to my mother or best friend when I meet a new guy! hey I have had a stocker so I’m not taken any risks with out back up!

  12.  #12catherine on May 18, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Sheri, sweet girl – you are being snowed! If this guy was into you, he would have arranged to see you regardless if his father died. It is all fantasy. It sounds like you have created a wonderful image of who he is and who he has become over the years. It isn’t any different from on-line dating stuff: you must meet as soon as you make contact! Don’t wait because the brain does all these wonderful creative things and fills all the empty spaces with our ideal fantasy. I discovered this with on-line dating. If we text/email more than a few times before scheduling a meet this is what happens:
    – I analyze all the words they use and add all kinds of good thoughts and feelings to them
    – I create a more positive image of who the person is
    – I create a move positive visual of who the person is
    – I add voice to their words

    Then, I meet them – OMG! and it can be really really funny

    On those occasions where I have very little back and forth, almost the opposite happens and we end up having a really nice date, and all because I haven’t had brain time to invent a fantasy.

    Several men have told me the exact same thing. They lose interest with the longer the gap between first contact and actually meeting. And that is regardless how “hot” the email and IM messages get.

    So, let go the fantasy. Go date real people. They are far more interesting and much more fun. Have a laugh about the whole thing and learn from the experience so that you can enjoy the next one even more.

  13.  #13Terry on May 18, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Help! Ok, the tables have turned and I now have the opposite “problem.”

    First, background: after going through 3 failed relationships in a year and half, I put myself back on a dating website in Feb. I’ve gone out with several men, even though I’m carrying an enormous work load and dealing with my mom’s health issues.

    One of these men, who contacted me almost immediately, has stepped up all along and is actually doing what I’d always dreamed of in a relationship. I never have to question where I stand with him or what he’s thinking or feeling. He puts everything on the table, pursues me like crazy, and makes me feel incredibly special.

    I’ve continued listening to Rori’s programs, because always forget something important, or hear something I missed before. I’ve tried not to get ahead of myself over this man. I’ve continued to date others.

    Last night he dropped the boom: he knows I’m “the one.’ He doesn’t want to pressure me, but he knows I’m the one he wants and he’s not looking any further. He said he longs to be with me and hasn’t felt that way in a long time.

    We’ve both been divorced a long time and we’ve both dated a lot of people, so we know what we’ve been waiting for in someone. I feel just as strongly about him, too. He came a hair away of saying “ily” last night, but stopped, because he probably didn’t want to scare me off. He’s told me that before.

    I told him I didn’t want to be a girlfriend and that I’m either dating or engaged. He wants exclusivity, but he also wants marriage soon, too. There’s no ring yet, because we’ve only been dating four months.

    That’s what I feel strange about. Is there ever exclusivity with a man if he says he wants only you, he wants marriage, but wants exclusivity first while specifics are figured out? I feel confused about that.

  14.  #14Brenda on May 18, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Sheri Amor, I read that you texted him, and that it went well…but to respond to your Post #6, it’s wiser to let him initiate contact. I know it feels good…I am the #1 offender of this lean back tool. But he is a drug and you want your fix. If you lean back and let him initiate, you will do better in the long term.

  15.  #15Daria on May 18, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I have the quirkiest healer inthe whole world, but I think he’s really good!

    I wish he were a woman lol

    He’s so sweet and will help for free but now he says he had to not eat because he hasn’t been charging people and its not a good idea to starve himself literally. So i will put together a lil money to send him.

    This feels amusing to me haha

  16.  #16mary on May 18, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    it’s so weird.

    island man and i really hit it off!

    we’re both on plenty of fish, and see each other there, and it’s just weird, because sometimes we communicate there, sometimes by email and he calls if he HAS to (for directions or to figure out real plans, etc.)

    i like him a lot but i’m trying very hard not to let my heart decide. my head will take notes and it will give my heart permission! and it hasn’t done that yet.

    and he’s also proceeding with caution. either that, or he’s not interested enough to really behind a Get Mary campaign.


    today i posted a new picture and put up a whole new profile. at the bottom, where it says what you want to do on a first date, i said, “lets’ just meet.”

    i like this very much. the new profile hardly says anything. it’s just one picture and a few statements, and it’s working just fine.


  17.  #17Jilly on May 18, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Mary…do you like plenty of fish better than match? I’m curious about plenty of fish. Maybe I will do both..

    So I read Rori’s eletter today on being STUCK and I feel stuck but not because of a particular guy i like..but because of a guy at work…all men are free therapy right? that’s why they’ve showed up for us? Wouldn’t it be nice if they showed up with a note saying,”Hi..I”m here to help you with such and such…lol Just kidding…then I would probably say..”I don’t need help with such and such…”
    Has anyone else noticed that when they started Rori’s programs that all this “stuff” started coming up for them? Good feelings, lots of icky feelings, One second I feel confident and happy and the next I feel self doubt and insecure…I feel like I’m on a rollercoaster…I want to get off but I can’t

    Sheri Amor….Yes I try and not give too much information either…I’m aware of stalker capabilities myself…not fun!

  18.  #18TW on May 18, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I put this on another post about telling the truth but I too am in a relationship/imaginary relationship and this is what I post over there. I am still trying to go through all of the post but some of you remember from years ago that I FINALLY broke up with my ex because of his distance and hot and cold nature and then I found out there was someone else but long story short, I met this guy a month or two afterwards and he is everything that I can ever want. He was so passionate int he beginning but lately has grown so distant. We rarely see each other but when he does contact me through text or whatever it may be he is “baby” this and “beautiful” that and I have discussed my past relationship with him because I was really hurt and he saw that in me in the beginning but my truth is ” Some days I feel like I am reliving my past relationship with a new person” How do I convey that to him or do I even convey that to him. The truth is just that.. the truth.,

  19.  #19dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    TW I think it’s time for the no girlfriend speech with him

  20.  #20TW on May 18, 2010 at 1:59 pm


    How do I speak my truth though? This is how I am feeling:

    I feel as though I am caught up in my last relationship just with a new man. I feel sad sometimes at the thought of loving someone that does not love me back. To feel that I want this person as a part of my life but the same does not hold true on the other end. I feel withdrawn sometimes.

  21.  #21tinque on May 18, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Jilly – talk about serendipity.
    “stuff” started coming up for them? Good feelings, lots of icky feelings, One second I feel confident and happy and the next I feel self doubt and insecure…I feel like I’m on a rollercoaster…I want to get off but I can’t”

    I just posted an article two seconds ago discussing exactly this.

    If you want to read it, click on my name or picture.

  22.  #22Simply Shannon on May 18, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Terry, What do you want?

    I feel intensely curious about this because your story is the next step. I don’t feel confident about this step. So much of what Rori discusses is the “get to this stage” part.

    Are you having sex? Is he talking about exclusive sex? Maybe try to be curious about what the next steps mean to him. Is he asking you to marry him or asking you to consider it?

    Gosh, I feel scared to even say anything for fear of guiding you down the wrong path. Eeek!

    Rori, please help Terry!

  23.  #23dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I feel as though I am caught up in my last relationship just with a new man. I feel sad sometimes at the thought of loving someone that does not love me back. To feel that I want this person as a part of my life but the same does not hold true on the other end. I feel withdrawn sometimes.

    Let’s tweak this into a quality no gf speech. Daria where are you!

  24.  #24TW on May 18, 2010 at 3:26 pm


    Does it sound as though I am blaming him or something like that?

  25.  #25Brenda on May 18, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Tinque, your article is wonderful and encouraging! Thank you! It is right where I’m at today, because I felt numb earlier, and it’s true, I felt overwhelmed. Feeling somewhat better now, but I will go work on feeling feelings with childlike curiosity. 🙂

  26.  #26TW on May 18, 2010 at 3:34 pm


    Some days I feel as though I want to go more than I want to stay. I feel confused as to what I am really staying for….

    This is what I am feeling to and I want to say this to him for some odd reason.

  27.  #27Daria on May 18, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Dorothea and TW –

    I noticed this also, that this relationship TW was resembling the past one you had with LI.

    From what I understand, that will keep happening until a Goddess makes the changes in herself that will bring her better relationships.

    In this case, I don’t think there’s anythign to share with him.

    At most, if he texted me, I would text back… i feel sad… I don’t want a text only relationship.

    Or i would stop responding to his texts.

    I did both of those things with Dman.

    Now he has come back, now that I have let go of him and feel calm, he seems more into me now. haha. yay.

  28.  #28dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    tw, it sounds blaming and manipulative. it is not very sireny at all.

    i think we need
    i feel…(freaked out, very attracted to you, and a little withdrawn…)
    because i don’t want…(to be one of those women who gets caught up over a guy who isn’t sure if he feels the same way)
    and i don’t want to pressure you…
    so i’m going to xyz…

  29.  #29TW on May 18, 2010 at 3:39 pm


    That is true. I am the common denominator in both situations but remember with my past LI it was up and down until I got tired and left and now he calls and tells me that he cares or if I call him and he does not answer then he always calls back to tell me what he was doing and why he did not answer but I am over that now you know. I left that and do not wish to re enter. Now the guy I am with now is really cool and we had the perfect relationship until he started to withdraw and then I let my awful feelings out as much as I could which I could hear the frustration in his voice and could feel the tension. Now he barely calls but keeps in contact in some form you know. I still see him from time to time but I want back what I had not what I have now.

  30.  #30TW on May 18, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    That is what I thought…

    Daria help…

  31.  #31Daria on May 18, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    TW – the best thing I would say is nothing.

    I think I remember you already told him you felt distant.

    He is not stepping up right now.

    You MUST Circular Date if you want to have a relationship that doesn’t go this way down the tubes.

  32.  #32TW on May 18, 2010 at 4:03 pm


    You are correct my friend. he stays relevant you know.. If that makes any sense. This is what I feeling at this very moment. I am just feeling all of my feelings right now.

    I feel sad, disconnected, angry, pissed. I feel like I want to stay and go all at the same time. I want to go more than I want to stay. What am I staying for?
    Ugh…I do not even know. I feel unloved.

  33.  #33dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    YEAH at first my gut reaction was to tell u that if you really feel blaming then the sireny thing to do is to say nothing and just get away. give yourself space. we don’t want to overfunction, afterall.

    hugs to your bad feelings. hugs hugs hugs

  34.  #34TW on May 18, 2010 at 4:11 pm


    Yeah that was my gut feeling because it made it seem like I was comparing him to someone else you know know but that is not it at all. It is the situation that is the same not the person. He would feel as though I was comparing him which if you really look at it I was.

  35.  #35dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    It sounds like maybe this is time to lean back and take care of yourself and hug your feelings and circular date. you DO have options besides this guy if he doesn’t act in a way that qualifies him after you lean back completely. there are billions of men in this world. do not despair and i love love love your feelings everything’s going to be okay if you let it.

  36.  #36TW on May 18, 2010 at 4:29 pm


    Part of me feels like he wants me to steer and row and I want him to do the same. I have given him an easy out and he says that I am what he wants but he does not act that part if you know waht I mean. He says that it is not anyone else.

  37.  #37dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    eh, just lean back, and when he calls you, be open and receiving. show him how good you feel when he rows. show him in an authentic way with feeling messages. “oh it feels so good to hear your voice.” “oh this meal feels so yummy in my belly” etc etc.

    don’t forget to circular date in some form or another, girl.

  38.  #38TW on May 18, 2010 at 4:46 pm


    My former LI that Daria referred to earlier has been contacting me and wants to come over. Thing is he wants to spend the night. I do nt feel uncomfortable with it but do not feel comfortable either you know. I would want to choke my boyfriend to death if he did that but then again he is not here and all we are doing is sleeping. no sex. that is off limits and he knows it. I jsut want the company.

  39.  #39Jilly on May 18, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    thanks tinque 😉 that’s exactly what I’m going through…(beautiful web page btw) I feel better just knowing that others have gone through “the feeling stuff” that happens..I was seriously wondering what was wrong…I also read some previous posts under “difficult situations” and there was alot of good info.

    I left work early today because a guy I work with triggered me and I “stuck up for myself” I expressed that I was feeling controlled but I started crying (even sobbing) and I couldn’t stop the tears..I felt so mad. I needed a TIME OUT (I feel he is toxic…just waiting for someone to do something wrong) I don’t feel good around him so work has been stressful these last few weeks and I feel it’s just been building up. I plan on using my feeling messages and unearthing the anger;) I feel kind of excited that I’m actually starting to feel all of my feelings…I now know that in the past I stuffed them a lot

    ok I know this is me talking out my life…thanks for listening everyone…I love siren island 😉 I feel safe here!

    TW…hugs to you

  40.  #40TW on May 18, 2010 at 4:50 pm


    Get it all out. What I do is take a bubble bath with the lights off and some soft music and close my eyes and juts think and feel and let it all go in that moment. That is on my agenda for tonight.

  41.  #41dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    tw i personally think him staying the whole night is outside of CD bounds anyway. the point is to circular date for free therapy and to get your mind on something else, not to spend 10 hours together doing drugs (each other)

  42.  #42TW on May 18, 2010 at 5:05 pm


    I LOVE that reference… Do drugs… Too funny.. I think that is the first time I laughed all day. Maybe he can come hand out but not that deep you know. I only want to sleep in the bed with my man you know.

  43.  #43dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    i remember telling my old LI before he was my current LI again (right now) that he couldn’t stay here. he said he couldn’t come into town for my bday party unless he could stay here. the truth was he could have made an appearance and went back to his town in time before the last regional bus, but he wasn’t using his brain lol. so i just said i don’t feel comfortable with his spending the night, and then he didn’t come. but he did call again and again. we actually went through a lot of me saying i don’t want whatever he was doing. texting. acting retarded (lol). but he kept stepping up. don’t be afraid to focus on what YOU feel and don’t want. we are goddesses. he even calls me a goddess. i never used that word with him. he’s just smart like that. awwww i love how he makes me feel now.

    go for it! love u! do u! don’t be scared about what you’ll lose out on if you create standards and boundaries for yourself. worry more about what you’ll lose out on if you DON’T (supreme goddessy happiness)

  44.  #44Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    I just got winked at by Santa Claus.


    He looks just like Santa, and in one of his pics he is dressed like Santa.

    He is a LOT older than me. 61. WAY too old for my liking.


    He is incredibly artistic and interesting!!!

    A retired TV creative director.

    And wealthy.

    His profile is so creative and artsy (and NOT in a pretentious way like others I have seen!!)– I can hardly stand it!!

    He’s pretty good looking for his age (like Santa).

    I so much wish he was younger!!

    He is looking for “a woman who can first be a good friend, confidant, companion and lover and if it so happens, open to marriage.”

    I wonder if I could enjoy his company and look for his message without breaking his heart.

    I guess I’m not supposed to worry about breaking his heart, so let’s change that to

    I wonder if I could enjoy his company and look for his message without feeling guilty if I break his heart.

  45.  #45Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Dorothea, I feel interested in a brief recap of the story of the LI you just mentioned…. he was in your life then out then in again? I don’t remember the story…..

  46.  #46Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I winked back at Santa.

  47.  #47Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Brenda — Want to get together some time??? My kids are home from college for the summer, so I don’t drive through your town any more. but maybe we could meet halfway or something?

  48.  #48TW on May 18, 2010 at 5:24 pm


    That makes so much sense you know. I have not set any boundaries with my current LI. I mean I told him what I wanted and did not want in the beginning but I did not maintain any other requirements you know. You just made me have a light bulb moment. Thank you.

  49.  #49Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    I felt weird today reading Evan’s latest newsletter, “Why Certain Men Will Never Do Well With Women And What You Can Learn From Them.”

  50.  #50Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    I felt intrigued reading this email from Bob Grant today:

    “Featured Topic: Men Are Either Moody or Boring

    Those readers who have been married a number of years will understand this question…. Given a choice, would you prefer a man who is moody, or a man who is boring? I agree, “Neither” would be the best answer. But, what would you consider to be the “lesser of two evils,” so to speak?

    “Whenever a woman selects a man, he will usually fall into dual categories. He is predominantly dependable (emotionally), and at times boring, or he is predominantly emotionally exciting, which means at times he will also be prone to bouts of moodiness. What I have found in my experience with a number of women I have counseled (both past and presently) is that those that date a man who is exciting and full of passion, tend to end up discouraged and upset when that same man eventually appears to loose interest in them. I frequently hear from these women some form of the same basic script… “What happened to the man who was full of passion? I want that man back. This man is so distant and moody. Why can’t things be the way they were?” Those of you that have experienced this know exactly what I am referring to.

    “My response is – “he is BOTH of those men.” Rare, and I mean rare, is the man who is full of passion, and does not also experience periods of moodiness. In addition, I didn’t mention this, the man who is moody can sometimes be mean and indifferent. Having a man feel intensely about you and then act indifferent toward you for no reason can be devastating.

    “The good news is that it doesn’t matter which type you pick, because you date and even marry either type. The one mistake you cannot make is to date and/or marry a moody man and they just expect him to become steady.He won’t change any more than the color of your car will change color just by getting older. Passionate men can be tamed by a woman who knows the secrets of putting her heart first. For those women understand that what a man needs is often different than what he says he needs.”

  51.  #51Jilly on May 18, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Lucy…very interesting article…I feel that i’ve experienced both types of men the way he explains them…I love the passionate men but feel I do better emotionally with the “boring” ones…maybe all women feel that way lol

    What does Ll stand for?

    TW..I will do just that…a nice warm relaxing bath is calling my name 😉

    sometimes when a new guy is calling me I get nervous and don’t want to answer the phone…I would almost rather them text me at first just to break the ice…do you women have any suggestions? It’s not like I’m calling them…I hate the awkwardness of it 😉 I’m fine on dates…for some reason it’s the talking on the phone that I don’t like…

  52.  #52Lucy on May 18, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Jilly — I don’t do well at all with the “boring” ones.

    Phone calls …. I am in the minority here with this, but I really dislike talking on the phone — so I simply don’t do it (except on rare occasions).

    I am a big fan of texting and email for those times when I can’t communicate in person. As a writer, I love written communication and it works very well for me in relationships of all kinds.

  53.  #53dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Jilly, LI to me means Love Interest. And I ALWAYS feel jitters when new guys call. I avoid their calls so bad. Hahahaha. Eventually I get up the courage. Eventually. hehe I love my awkward automatic avoidal of the phone.

    Right now I feel stuffed up like i stuck a cork in me because i feel afraid to let my real fear and anxiety trickle through me about the fact that I am going to be filmed for a documentary interview tomorrow. I am distracting myself instead of feeling my feelings. I feel worried if i let the fear flow through me and the anxiety flow through me it won’t ever stop. i don’t want to sabotage myself tomorrow.

    i get SO jittery and shaky in these situations. I turn bright red.

    Rori, if you’re out there and are feeling extra extra generous and like going on a tangent, would you please share some “stage” jitters tools I can use? I always feel almost paralyzed with terror when i have to perform in any way. whether it’s a tiny little speech or a media interview or talking on the phone with a stranger. yikes! i feel doomed.

  54.  #54dorothea on May 18, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    btw i hate texting and emails…which is whats so funny about how i avoid the phone.

  55.  #55Tina on May 19, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Dorothea, that’s awesome. let us know what happens:)

  56.  #56tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 3:01 am

    I feel sad and sick.

    Maybe you will all say – I told you so, not sure.

    So I did text text man on Monday. And nothing since.

    I feel really sick.

    However, given our history, my guess is his ambivalence came back during our date, and it had little to do with the follow up texts. The lack of kiss was more of a sign than anything.

    I am pretty sure he asked me about my ankle to ease his own conscious that he is not a jerk, not because he wanted to see me again.

    Unless, I messed it up with my texts. However, I have a hard time thinking that two texts that were not demanding or really talking about much would have run him away.

    This is the second time we went through this circle.

    I won’t contact him. But ouch. I feel sick, and sad. I will go vomit now.

  57.  #57Tina on May 19, 2010 at 3:01 am

    I havnt had the chance to practice hanging up first 🙂 I keep letting the convo drag out until he says bye first and I’ll call you again. I used to make excuses to people like oh I got to do something talk later. I noticed that truckman uses , I’m losing signal , I have to hang up well not with me but when I’m with him and his cell rings. I dont use a cell phone. OK, so this is what i’ll do, when there is a pause in the convo , I;ll end it. yeah. He always says, I just wanted to let you know that I love you and I’ll call you again , then I say uh…click. thank you? I love me too? I did say that before, I love me too 🙂

  58.  #58Tina on May 19, 2010 at 3:13 am

    tallgirl, baby steps. It’s all traila nd error what the hell 🙂 just dont text him anymore, trust yourself and DONT TEXT him. Its easy for me to say because I dont carry a cell phone. It does get easier once you actually start doing it. Write it on a piece of paper lol its a start. like I FEEL INSECURE, or wahtever. 18 month guy lives like 10 houses from me, I rarely see him, but for the 18 months we were together, we saw each other almost everyday.

  59.  #59Tina on May 19, 2010 at 3:18 am

    I have to drive by his house every time I leave my house whether it’s to go shopping whatever. I never see him anymore 🙂 I remember what Rori said about him being useless to me now. A big smile and “he is useless to me now” haha yeah. I feel excited about what and how I will feel this weekend when truckman is here, it’s a big weekend here so, 18 month guy will be around.

  60.  #60tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 4:31 am

    I want to be clear – I never initiated the texts:

    Him – how’s the ankle treating you?

    Me – It is feeling much better, thanks! The vet decided not to put me down afterall. Did you end up buying that tuba? (THIS MAY HAVE BEEN LEANING FORWARD A LITTLE)

    Him – Alright, I expect you to be back on the regime this week. No tuba, but considering a tambourine

    Me – Never fear, i’ve done four workouts in four days, just subbing out running. I am down, but not out! Sounds like someone may be going to band camp.

    I wish I could stop beating myself up, but his interest was waning last year, and it is the same this year.

    Help, why do I feel so aweful! I didn’t do anything. Even my minor lean is is hardly a sin.

  61.  #61tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 4:35 am

    I just don’t understand why he came on so darn strong this time, only to disappear. I never asked him to do that.

    I feel sick and angry and embarrassed.

  62.  #62Jilly on May 19, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Dorothea…good luck today! I feel grateful that I’m not the only one that avoids the phone calls lol
    Tina…yes I’m working on hanging up first..or if I’m on a date ending it first…otherwise it seems to keep going longer than I want it to.
    tallgirl…I feel for you..that’s a yucky place to be…I wish there were an easy way to get over those feelings because I hate feeling those ones…I’m pretty sure I stuff those and go numb so I can avoid them…not good either!!

  63.  #63Linda on May 19, 2010 at 5:57 am

    I have recently received a gift and it has brought me the cure for the curse of the imaginary relationship.

    I have my desires and wants and needs. I have a firm grip on what they are. There may be a man that comes in my life that I may be stirred by but… I simply am not going invest in him unless he gives and meets the things that are important to me. Looking, hoping and pining for things from a person that is not giving them is a waste of my precious energy. Being upset with them that they are not giving is has proven to be that too. The investment of my heart, time, resourses will only be with someone that it is mutual.

    The cure for the imaginary relationship for me was keeping my head focused on what “is”, what I feel because of what “is” and responding and doing what I need to meet my goals so that I can have what I need and want in my life is where I will invest my energy.

    Emotional freedom for me is the result of focusing on the reality. It is a freeing gift.

    Shannon… I read your comment at the top to the posts. Comfort is not a bad thing to like or want to feel. Differences are always going to be there between two people. Some you can live with some you cant. Life brings annoyances, and its reality and demands has it way of crashing in our imaginary and illuminates what is real. Sounds like there is good and undesirable things with your guy.

    I recently had a physical medical emergency and needed immediate help and support. This has put a new light on things for me… a “where the rubber meets the road” event in my life. I came face to face with who can I call. Who do I have confidence in that will be there and respond for me…For me it was a very sobering “reality” imaginary crashing thing to deal with.

    I realized that I can hope and dream and wish about relationship but a person you can rely on, even if they are not the perfect fit etc etc…. is noteworthy and at least in my heart… something very important to consider as I wade thru the issues of relationship and what is important to me.

    Just my newest revelations on my journey.


  64.  #64Jeannette girl on May 19, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Linda, I so appreciate your thoughts. You are on the RIGHT path certainly. I was pining over a man for a very long time, who just did not want to be there for me when I most needed him. It is hurtful to know that what I gave so much energy to was for nothing in the end. Hours and hours of anxiety, trying to figure out what did I do to bring this on when it was NOTHING on my part, what-so-ever. I just recently started dating a caring man. He’s not perfect, but neither am I. He has a physical disability due to an old injury he acquired at his work place. But by far and large, this man has the kindest heart and a loving soul. Also, he knows what adversity is and until you are acquainted with it, you tend to look more for what others can do for you instead of the other way around. You are SO RIGHT, when you said a person you can rely on means everything. Today, while working out in the gym, I looked at all the buff body’s again and then reflected on how they may look so good on the outside, but what about what’s going on in the inside……That’s when you really start to see people for who they are. We are all handicapped in some form or another. It’s what we do with those handicaps that matters.

  65.  #65Linda on May 19, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Jeannette Girl…

    Sometimes it takes a while to realize and “feel” what our individual most important things and realities are. It has taken me a while for sure. I feel women (me for sure) need that sense of ‘security” and saftey.

    Finding out who a person is on the inside takes a bit of time too us included. THe only way to test things is by time and consistency, men included.

    There is a song that says “when it comes to love I take my time, there is no need to rush when I am making up my mind”…. While this is not a feeling statement there is value in time and what it reveals. The key is to “see” what it reveals.


    Who I called and who I didnt was very revealing to me about my own heart and feelings. It has sorta rocked my position on present circumstances and order in my life. Something I will not argue with or talk myself out of. I am glad


  66.  #66dorothea on May 19, 2010 at 7:04 am

    tallgirl, you didn’t “mess up” anything. love and hug your sick feelings. and lean back. hell probably hit you up again. just dont forget to check in with yourself about how you feel interacting with him. it’s starting to seem to me like he does not show you the right kind of attention to make you feel good. but to be fair, i started judging him the second you said he was looking at this other woman intently at the concert.

    but when it seems like he is rejecting us we feel sooo sucky. even if he’s not prince charming.

    like this one time a great guy (on paper) kept trying to get me drunk and then shoved his tongue in my mouth and proceeded to give me a terrible cold and then called me a rude prude for not fucking him on the first date texted me a few days later from out of town on his christmas holiday to tell me happy birthday, but never called me again. i felt rejected and awful, like..okay…he is going to call me any minute now… but he didn’t. and i had this idea that he would ask me out and i would tell him i expect to be treated better and etc etc. but he didn’t call. and i felt rejected. even though i never wanted to go out with a date like THAT in the first place.

    when i saw him again at my friend’s bday party, he tells me “i didn’t see something long term so i didn’t call you…i feel like i owe you an explanation blah blah.” i was just like…”hey..i didn’t call YOU either. and you gave me a financial breakdown of how much you spent on our date when we were having drinks…”

    my dignity was still in tact. basically cuz i leaned back after the date.

  67.  #67Tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 7:49 am


    I know, those texts are hardly asking him out. They may be sitting neutral, but it is hardly learning forward. They are hardly doing anything.

    My dignity is still in tact because I won’t contact him, and even though, I texted back. I still think what I said was appropriate given what he has given me.

    I still feel icky. I do not understand how someone who was litterally so in sync with me, would then just turn off like that.

    Again, about the looking at the lady – had I not been so observant, I doubt I would have even noticed it. But that still really icky. And leaning in for the kiss.

  68.  #68Brenda on May 19, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Lucy, RE: #46 – Thank you! I would love to meet you! Please feel free to email me at My exhusband, Kenny, is also near Wilkesbarre. I haven’t visited him there yet, but maybe when it gets approved, I can come most of the way. I wish I could meet all of you! I know this, when I marry, you are all invited to my wedding! 🙂

  69.  #69Jeannette girl on May 19, 2010 at 8:49 am

    Linda, thanks again, do you know what the name of that song is? I would like to listen to it. Thanks and yes, I am learning to know who I am too along the way.

  70.  #70mary on May 19, 2010 at 9:23 am


    plenty of fish flowers from island man!

    i’m so happy.

  71.  #71Rori Raye on May 19, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Welcome Catherine, and thank you for all your insights. Love, Rori

  72.  #72Brenda on May 19, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Yeeeaaah! I just did well interacting with Bill! We were sposta have a meeting with another person at work. It was postponed, and nobody told me. So I showed up at his desk to walk over with him, which was totally expected if the meeting was still on.

    We chatted about work-related stuff for about 20 minutes, with a little fun mixed in. Just as I felt my usual draw to prolong conversation and enjoy his company a little longer, I remembered how we were all talking about being the one to end the conversation. So while I was still talking, I picked up my papers and stood up. I felt really good about walking away at the end of his sentence, with no lingering. And it was a good, positive interaction.

  73.  #73Lucy on May 19, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Brenda!!! That is SOOOO Great!!!

    Wow. I feel impressed and happy!

  74.  #74tinque on May 19, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Tallgirl10 – May I explain something to you about how men work?
    “about the looking at the lady – had I not been so observant, I doubt I would have even noticed it.”
    Men are hard-wired to look at women. It’s encoded into their DNA, and it doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Most of the time they don’t even know they’re doing it.
    If you hadn’t been “observant” you wouldn’t have noticed tells me he’s being discrete about it. A quick glance at another woman means nothing. For all you know he might have been thinking, “what a freak”.
    If a man blatantly ogles, stares, gives an up and down several times, his eyes bulging, then you have something to worry about.
    And honestly don’t you notice attractive men? Give them a quick once over if you’re with a guy?
    This is not a red flag, really it isn’t.

  75.  #75Amy F on May 19, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    I ordered the Siren program a week ago and it has not yet arrived. I have the e-book. I am heartsick about one man who I met, dated, was pursued, had a great time, staked out my boundaries, explained what having a physical relationship meant to me, it was all great, slept with him (I was great, he was OK) and I could feel the cold chill descend before we even got out of bed the next morning. I have been so sad, mad, anxious. I am now Circular Dating (told the man for now we would be exclusive sexually, but I’m dating other people. I have a date tomorrow I am actually excited about it. Smart, handsome man who seems to understand women well. Wants a “heart” connection. Music to my ears. My heart feels so much better. I have not received the Siren program yet, and I want to get this right. Do you all have 3 or 4 things I should make sure I do or don’t do tomorrow?
    Thanks for your help!

  76.  #76mary on May 19, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Hello sirens,

    It’s a long weekend here in gorgeous BC, and the weather is beautiful. Everyone is out and about and…

    my cup overfloweth.

    I’ve just been doing the basic Rori Raye things: feeling the pain of my breakup with R, getting in motion anyway, figuring out a way to stay open to new men coming my direction and continuing to say yes to dates.

    wow. i have my choice this weekend! I AM THE ONE DECIDING WHO I WILL SPEND MY TIME WITH.

    this has got to be the best thing that’s ever happened to me!

    Thank you Rori.

    Thank you RORI !!!

    Thank you Rori.

  77.  #77Tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 2:07 pm


    I thought the same thing. While it felt icky, he has never once disrespected me in that way. Not for one second.

    It was more that it seemed like that is when we disconnected after being “intimate” and by that I mean having a really sweet time – and being physically close to each other with his arm around me.


  78.  #78Tallgirl10 on May 19, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Oh, and I noticed her long before he did ;-)!

  79.  #79Katie on May 19, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Is it a mirage?
    We are crossing the desert called “NO REAL MAN NO REAL LOVE” and then we see this profile, this photo, or we meet in person – and what we experience is in accordance with what is going on INSIDE us. WE see a shimmering lake because we are in the desert. I think there are no desesrts on Siren Island!
    Me? I have been there, in the imaginary relationship and in the desert :~(
    Not just once either :~(
    The good news is that I am learning to love myself and my life as it is, as I am – man or no man. It has been a painful journey.
    It is natural to want *connection* – women are all about connection, and when it is not there we start overfunctioning because its how we are wired. We are community and family orientated. We are and always have been the *glue* in the tribe by gender. Hey I am rambling – nice to be here – feeeeeeeeeels good as always :~)

  80.  #80Katie on May 19, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Is it a mirage?
    My ex and I have kissed – I melted – truly it just happened – a hug and then suddenly we were kissing. not just a peck – a sensuous kiss. It really wasn’t premeditated in any way by me or by him. We later turned into giggling and somewhat shy ‘teenagers’ and it happened just as I was about to leave his place. Oh help! – what was I doing!!? What does this mean ?!!!

  81.  #81Katie on May 19, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    So – what am I to do?
    He is away this week – should I avoid him from now on? I loved him more when we were a ‘couple’ and was more generous with affection – it was a bit unequal in that respect. I cried lots of tears when we split and I still want him. How should I play this when I see him again – any ideas?

  82.  #82mary on May 19, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    katie, be cool.

    be cool, be cool, be cool.

    that’s my idea!

  83.  #83mary on May 19, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    like it never happened.

    proceed “as friends” but don’t be afraid to flirt! eye contact and smile.

    that’s all!

    over and out!

  84.  #84Rori Raye on May 19, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Amy F – Welcome – and seems to me you’re doing GREAT!!!! You sound on your own side…Siren should come soon…til then, just practice your Feeling Messages…Love, Rori

  85.  #85Katie on May 19, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Thanks Mary,

    Yep – I think you’re right. Part of me is all hopeful and another part is really cautious. Then there’s all the sexy feelings/ rememberings that go with a sensuous kiss – i’ll have to be careful 😉

  86.  #86Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Good morning, beautiful modern Sirens!

    One thing I notice about Bill is he seems uncomfortable with anything deemed as personal or emotional. Even when we were talking about job team members who need to be confronted because they aren’t doing their jobs, he seemed to shy off, saying stuff like, “I don’t want to piss him off because…etc.” I didn’t get into feeling messages, cuz this is the man I’m attracted to. But I said, “You’re too diplomatic for your own good! He needs to hear ‘I want…’; ‘I don’t like…’; ‘I need…'” Bill’s expression went from a smile to a strained smile mixed with discomfort. Was I erring too close to making him wrong? In case I did, I quickly said, “I hope you don’t think I’m putting you down, cuz you’re a really nice person.”

    Anytime I’ve used feeling messages with him, just lightly, in the past week or so, he seems to withdraw into his bubble of boy energy. That takes the form of flooding our conversation with work-related topics, in response to a feeling message. I continue to believe he is attracted, but at the same time, I feel him withdrawing. I sense he may not be used to being close to people, and I also base that on how he told me in the past he’s not a people person. He feels more comfortable in a lab by himself (he’s a scientist).

    So here’s my question…considering he’s a coworker at this stage, and not a date, am I being too forward-leaning to continue with feeling messages? Also, if I am giving a feeling message and I sense his discomfort, what do I do?

    My thot is to say something like, “I sense that you feel uncomfortable.”

  87.  #87dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 7:32 am

    brenda, it could be your projected discomfort over the topic of feeling messages showing through his reactions. does this make sense?

    anyway girl, using feeling messages isn’t leaning forward at all. leaning forward and giving advice to him, on the other hand, is something I used to do and it kills attraction. it’s a totally buddy thing to do.

    keep it light. there’s probably no reason to say you sense he feels uncomfortable. that feels yucky and like it’s all about him. i feel frustrated and don’t want to offend u at all brenda cuz i know i pick on you but u r a goddess so get into your feelings and don’t think about what to say to him to get the outcome you want.

    when i make men uncomfortable i have lightly been like “ohh u look so uncomfortable hehe!” and they either open up or i just smile and lean back and let him steer the next step in our conversation. i don’t know if this is very rori raye to say but it’s my personal style.

    brenda, i don’t want to make you wrong here, but when you say you sense he is withdrawing from getting close to you, i don’t see what he could possibly be withdrawing from. what closeness? what personal or emotional stuff? he tells you he feels scared of confronting people and you direct him with advice? close personal and emotional is saying ohhh that sounds daunting. or just ohhh.

    “I hope you don’t think I’m putting you down, cuz you’re a really nice person.”

    here is how i would tweak this into an authentic feeling message that truly reflects my feelings in that moment and ISN’T all about him.

    “I feel bad and scared now! i don’t want to put you down and that’s not what i am doing.”

    that sort of thing invites “brenda don’t be scared i’m ok!”

    and if it doesn’t who cares. he’ll change the topic. one of the principles of leaning back is basically that just because the outcome in that moment doesn’t feel tidy or satisfactory to us, doesn’t mean that youre not contributing to the overall vibe shift.

    u don’t chase after every moment with a broom and dust pan. you don’t clean up his discomfort.

    you just be and feel and have that confidence that YOU will be ok no matter what

  88.  #88dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 7:34 am

    or that sort of thing invites “don’t be scared..u didn’t do anything wrong…i just hate workplace confrontations…”

    u feel me?

  89.  #89Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Dorothea, thank you! I don’t mind you “picking on me”! 🙂 I am really working hard on changing my relational style. I have to, because it doesn’t come naturally to be smooth or siren-like. Let me process this a little…

  90.  #90dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 8:53 am

    yay brenda thank YOU i feel much better now hehe. yeah it’s not going to come naturally or siren like without practice.

  91.  #91Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Dorothea, that helps a lot. Sometimes it’s really hard for me to see stuff like this objectively cuz I come from a really socially inexperienced place.

    When I say he is backing up from emotional and personal stuff, here is what I mean…In the recent past, we were discussing breeding dogs in a quite flirtatious way. He was sharing with me about his father being in the hospital with intestine surgery cuz of cancer and he was scared to die. He was having coffee breaks with me either one-on-one or with his friend, Mark. About a week ago, he leaned his leg against mine under a conference table during a meeting.

    Now he is not asking me to coffee; not discussing his personal life (family, dog, etc), and a few days ago, when I accidentally bumped his leg with mine during a meeting, he rolled his chair away. I feel him distancing himself.

    When I wore a dress to a meeting last Friday, was that too big of a signal? Was that forward leaning? Even tho I bumped his leg accidentally, I’m sure he thot it was intentional, and therefore it could be interpretted as forward-leaning. I flirted pretty outrageously about his male dog not knowing what to do with a bitch in heat. I directly meant it as HE doesn’t know what to do with ME being attracted to him. Don’t know if he took it that way, but either way, it was a pretty bold flirt, I’d say.

    So do any of these details shed any more light on what I am or am not doing wrong?

    He seems a lot quicker to jump into “shop talk”, staying on the subject of work. But maybe he is just withdrawing as a reflex of his shyness, in discovering that a woman is attracted to him.

    He is overweight, also, and probably in his late 30s (I’m 46, but I look like I’m in my 30s). I get the feeling he doesn’t have too many women hanging on him, probably because of his size. At least that is my perception.

    I like what you said especially about not being there to sweep up the fallout of our feeling messages. I really like feeling messages!

  92.  #92Amy F on May 20, 2010 at 9:06 am


    I just learned so much from what you wrote. Feeling messages, leaning back, not being concerned about his discomfort when I lean back. My focus is on me and how I feel and communicating how I feel.
    I have a first date tonight. I’m going to use what I just learned from you.

    Another man told me he’s potentially too much in love with me to see me anymore. He’s afraid of his feelings. Because of circular dating, I felt – wow I’m disappointed I won’t get to know him better but oh well, I have a date tonight and another tomorrow night. No big deal. I flirted with the Fed Ex man as well as the guy at Starbucks who all leaned forward as I leaned back. I’m not committed nor tied to the outcome with anyone. Whomever makes me feel great, secure and loved will get me. I have never felt like this before. I always picked one man who I zeroed in on and was then destroyed if things did not work as I had planned – if he did not call enough, want me enough, give me enough attention. I committed before there was anything to commit to. I know I have lots to learn, but this is a great start. Yeah!

  93.  #93Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 9:06 am

    I just sent this to John, another (married) coworker, after he missed our one-on-one meeting a few days ago (to discuss a document revision). He was a half hour late yesterday only after I sent another employee to chase him down (he was passing thru)…John just sent me a cancellation for today, proposing to move it to tomorrow for just a half hour.

    I practiced my Rori Raye messages by writing:

    Hi John,

    You’re a very nice man, and I enjoy being around you. I feel frustrated about our meetings. I understand everyone is busy in our department. But I was told to meet with scientists, and I am not going to chase you down for every meeting. It’s enough of a challenge for me to manage my own schedule. Nor do I think a half hour is long enough to have productive work time. What can we do to make our meeting times happen?

    Let’s just move it to next week, all right? And let’s plan to work on (document)163, which is next in the lineup. What do you think?

    Within a few minutes he rescheduled this afternoon’s meeting for a full hour, saying another meeting was cancelled. 🙂 Siren Power! Yeah! Girl Power! Yeah!

    And then I forwarded this same thing to Bill by email, to give him an EXAMPLE of confronting tactfully, rather than making him wrong by saying he is too diplomatic for his own good.

    How do you feel about how I handled it?

  94.  #94dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 9:19 am

    i feel like u made a great step practicing a feeling message……….. and then u sent it to bill WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BRENDA quit yer damn leaning forward and overfunctioning. quit initiating contact. woman. imma pinch you.

    (love u)

  95.  #95Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Dorothea, LOL! No, really, it wasn’t leaning forward. Bill is the one who is heading up this project, and I am supposed to keep him informed of progress, issues, etc. It was work related. **Smirk!! :-)**

    I calmly rest my case! (eh-eh!)

  96.  #96dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 10:25 am

    sorry pretty charlie, your case is not rested. i don’t want you to do this again. you were just saying how uncomfortable he got when you directed him abotu how to handle office conflict and then you rubbed his face in it again. why? to initiate. to overfunction. to reach out. fuckin a, i want to control control control you. and share my sandwich with you because it is so yummy right now.

  97.  #97Lucy on May 20, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Dorothea, this is priceless. Thank you!

    “one of the principles of leaning back is basically that just because the outcome in that moment doesn’t feel tidy or satisfactory to us, doesn’t mean that youre not contributing to the overall vibe shift.”

  98.  #98dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 10:33 am

    if bill had been cc’d on the email thread to begin with, or if he needed to be aware of the exact time and place of your meeting so he could attend, that’s one thing. but you’re still directing him unnecessarily otherwise.

    one of these days you’re gonna reach out and slap me thru the comp but i can take it.

  99.  #99Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 10:34 am

    LOL! Well he just got back in the office after being at a doctor appointment, and he emailed back, “It gets the point across :)” Then I asked him if he got a malaria shot for his upcoming cruise (he had emailed yesterday saying he’d be out for a doctor appt). He said no but his doc wants him to have a sleep apnea test, and he was surprised and concerned. He knows I have had that sleep apnea and so I gave him some feedback what it’s like to have the test. He said he can’t sleep at night, only when he eats. I said then eat at night…or…. and I left it like that. But he didn’t bite. So I wrapped it up with a smiley face after that. I don’t know, I will think about it, but I don’t see this as leaning forward or overfunctioning.

  100.  #100dorothea on May 20, 2010 at 10:40 am

    see, this is the problem, brenda…you don’t see it as leaning forward or overfunctioning, but it IS. you are relegating yourself to the friends category on a bullet train at lightning speed.

  101.  #101Lucy on May 20, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Brenda, I don’t know, to me, reading all this on a computer, I sorta feel a VIBE of leaning forward with Bill — no matter what you are doing or not doing.

    Siena and I had written a bit about that before, and Rori mentioned it in passing — the idea that if you do Leaning Back behaviors with an AGENDA, it has the same effect as Leaning Forward. Conversely, if you do Leaning Forward behaviors with NO agenda, it has the same effect as Leaning Back.

    I just feel such a strong sense of pursuit and chasing when I read about what you are doing/not doing with Bill. Chances are, he feels it too — and that may be why he is withdrawing.

    Love you!

  102.  #102Amy F on May 20, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Can someone explain “Leaning Back” and give an example? On the phone – how do you Lean Back? Out for drinks, how do you Lean Back?

  103.  #103Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Ok, thank you both for your feedback. I will retriple my efforts to lean back. I guess I still didn’t and don’t fully understand this concept. I really want to learn, so I will trust your judgment on this.

    All the while, I’m thinking, “Oh, Lord! If they knew how much MORE I did with Ryan, they would probably blame most of the demise of THAT relationship on ME!” **Cringing!!**

  104.  #104Siena on May 20, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Hi Amy, leaning back is both a physical and an energetic thing.

    It literally means leaning back in your chair or against a wall and giving him the space to come to you. He enters your space instead of you entering his.

    It means not initiating phone calls, texts, or any other type of communication.

    It means letting him start talking first when you sit down for drinks or dinner.

    It means not trying to fill empty or awkward silences with words.

    It means not “rowing the relationship boat” at all.

    It means letting him drive the relationship and the conversation on the phone.

    There are a million ways that it can be interpreted, those are just a few.


  105.  #105Brenda on May 20, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Amy, picture yourself as a water wheel. A water wheel’s function is to just be, to lean back, as it were, collecting water. It does nothing to accumulate water but receive. As it receives, it starts to spin. That is Rori’s analogy, which you can see I am sheepishly still learning! 🙂 I love myself, even tho I still lean forward too much!

    On the phone, leaning back looks like not initiating the call in the first place; giving feeling messages; and probably being the one to end the call when it feels right.

    Out for drinks, leaning back looks like literally leaning back in your seat, while centering on your feelings; unzipping your heart using Rori’s visualizations. The one I like when I’m out in a social setting like that is to imagine breathing in thru your relaxed vagina. Feel the air come up thru your lungs, and as you exhale, you exhale shimmering femininity all down your breasts, over your whole body.

    She gives many visualizations that can carry you peacefully thru otherwise tense, self-concious, awkward moments. I become water, and I move with the moment, feel the moment, flex and adapt to what’s going on around me, while I nurture and soothe those around me with my soft presence…

    That’s just for starters. I really love how Rori covers this in Modern Siren. What refreshing CD programs!

  106.  #106Ex Get Back Together on May 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    You have a lot better chance attracting and bringing him close to you when you are enjoying yourself than just hanging around and asking him questions. And if you find that one day you must leave then it won’t be as hard if you have kept up your interests and relationships.

  107.  #107Terry on May 20, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    Thanks for responding way up there. (I’m behind… I worked twelve hours yesterday.)

    It feels weird to be with a man who does what he’s supposed to do in the relationship. He and I talked late last night. He took down his profile and he made his intentions clear.

    I spoke to him with lots of feeling messages and told him how I felt when I’m with him, etc. I also told him I felt pushed and need more time. He was very sweet and told me to take all the time I needed.

    He hasn’t proposed yet, but he made it clear that marriage is what he eventually wants with me. He wanted me to agree to exclusivity and I gave him the “no “girlfriend” speech. At first, he didn’t sound happy, but reassured me later that he didn’t want to scare me away and that was fine.

    Yikes! I feel a bit scared. I’m so used to boy-men. Having a real man step up the plate and pursue like this feels so different. He’s everything I’ve ever dreamed of and now I feel unsure if I want to give up my freedom. : (

  108.  #108mackenzie on May 20, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    I’m interested in anyone’s thoughts on the passionate men that turn moody and distant later and how do you deal with that? I’m dating one now and it’s wonderful but I can see how it could end up there later….

  109.  #109Daria on May 20, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    mackenzie – that just feels bad to think about (i felt intrigued and terrified when i first read that)

    so if it FEELS bad!! theres my answer right there!

    i choose not to believe what feels bad

    i figurel… i let the man be the man without categorizing, and he shows me what he’s like

  110.  #110Amy F on May 20, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    Hi Ladies,
    Thank you for advising me on “Leaning Back’. I tried it on the phone and I was not good at it. I will keep trying. Another question: I emailed my man last week that I did not want to be exclusive with him. I used feeling messages and “I don’t want”(I don’t want to feel coldness and distance after sex) and “what do you think”? He was mad at first, then did not call me for a week and told me today he thought my email where I explained this was “scary”. I did not really know how to say, so I said, well, I felt scared and communicated this, I don’t want distance and withdrawl and wanted you to know. Yet, he’s called me, texted me, told me now that I’m his girl – more emotive than ever before. Amazing. My question is, should I ask him tomorrow when he calls what he meant by scary and dig into this or just drop it? Thanks for your support. I am learning!

  111.  #111mackenzie on May 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Daria, you are so right. Thanks for holding up a mirror and saying the right thing.

  112.  #112TW on May 21, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Hello ladies-

    How are you all doing? I am okay today.. I took the day off work yesterday and my LI called me that morning… YES HE CALLED ME and he spent some time with me and he was supposed to come back after running around he needed to do and I had some errands to… He had to go to sleep because he had to work that night but he called me and told me that he was tired and could not make it back but I told him that it was okay and I thanked him for calling to let me know. That is the first time in forever that he has spent sometime with me and actually called me. I hope there are more of these days to follow because he was so sweet yesterday. He did everything right…

  113.  #113Amy F on May 21, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Does anyone else feel this way?

    I have been practicing “leaning back” and feeling messages with all of the men I am circular dating – which includes the guy at the coffee shop, the Fed Ex man, and 4 men I’m actually going on dates with.

    I am hung up on one of these men (man1) – he’s sexy, funny, handsome and he’s long distance. Man1 not as responsive as another (man2). Man2 is intelligent, giving but not as sexy as Man1. I’m starting to really like man2 MORE because of the way he leans in, is so into just me being a girl – I don’t have to do anything with him but relax and fall into it. It is so easy with him – not so much of a struggle. I’m changing – I can feel it. Has anyone else experienced this??

  114.  #114emmy on May 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Two years ago my boyfriend of 4 years threw me out of his house 2 months after we got engaged and I moved in with him. His mother told him that he can keep the house that they jointly own if he gets rid of me. He’s 41 years old; 14 years younger than me, and I’m his mothers age, but I look and act 10 years younger than my age.
    He was so cruel when we broke up 2 years ago,that i was seriously depressed for 20 months, becoming a binge drinker, etc. I got over my depression and stopped ringing him 6 months ago and now suddenly he started ringing me. At first I was not interested, and he rang 5 times a day. A few days later he came over to see me. He said he loves me and wants a ‘secret’ relationship where his parents and friends wouldn’t know about us. We had sex. Then he didn’t ring me for 2 days and I complained that he should have rung me the next day (I know, not good) and now I’m hooked again, ringing him, and now he’s only rarely ringing me back. The last time he rang was 10 days ago, and I finally rang him. When i ring him he still calls me ‘darling’ but hasn’t asked me out for a date. When I asked him why doesn’t he ring me or date me he said ‘I don’t feel motivated because you’re dating other men’. He said he can’t ask his mother about letting us be together as he doesn’t want to upset her. (he is 41 years old). He said he’s depressed about it but doesn’t want to lose his house. He said he’s been with only one woman since our split but it didn’t work. I know he is a liar, but I think this is true.
    I think that if I continue our ‘friendship’ and only ring him occasionally while I date other men he might finally get strong enough to choose me over his mother and house. I’m sad that after all that grieving and depression for 2 years, and finally gaining my strength and independence back, I’m again thinking about him all the time and initiating phone calls. I am dating other men, but I don’t feel attracted to them, even though they are keen and treat me better. Could it be ‘true love’ or true stupidity? Is it worth my waiting. I’m going to not ring him – or try to, and see what happens. I am obsessing about him again, and starting to binge drink again. Can anyone help me.
    Many thanks,

  115.  #115Rosa on May 22, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Hello All,

    This is a first for me but hoping for some advice. The problem concerns an emotional booty call from G ,a man who cant do relationship.

    For years I was in an imaginary relationship which was terminated when G moved back to his country three hours flight from here. This was for work and financial reasons and he has been wanting to return ever since. Needless to say the roller coaster ride did not quite end then as he would seek me out each time he made a business trip to my city over the past 18 months and we would meet for dinner though i had gotten better at avoiding other “benefits”. We had been through so much difficulty together through the years, hospitalisations , unemployment , court issues , and note please , somehow it was always ME supporting him during the big stresses and he was generally absent during mine.

    He was however caring and generous of his time ,and we spent a lot of time together , lots of companionship and closeness but it was all IMAGINARY intimacy. He could not commit, he did not want a relationship and called me his “dear friend” and his ‘closest friend”. I was so immensely angry with him that it took me years to realise it was ME i was angry with for allowing myself to be a Friend With Benefits. My love for him was immense . He told me several times that he loved me but was not in love with me..nice huh ? 🙂

    I met his family many times , stayed with them in their country , and with him also , cared for his kids, looked after them when they visited town and was in every way a girlfriend with no relationship. And I suspect he was a toxic man, as Rori says a Man that Cant Dance.

    Recently I have had him contact me approximately monthly,though he says he is “seeing someone” who also is a long distance situation and is not really real either.

    Now his father is suddenly dying of cancer. He had to go get him from a pacific Island after a cruise ship diagnosis! Immense pressure is on G just now and his job is now redundant , he had to move etc.all this in one week .His family lean on him and now he wants to lean on ME ..good old Rosa. Suddenly G is back online , on skype, on the phone everywhere. He has put his Mom on to talk with me, he has shared his huge distress and uncertainty. I feel like he is making an EMOTIONAL BOOTY CALL ! Leaning on me for support and drawing me into their intimate family circle like one would with ones partner. And I am 3 hours away but Skype is so immediate.

    I love and respect his Dad and Mum , his son and daughter. But I GET NOTHING IN RETURN from G. There is no relationship.I dont want to give myself away ever again. I feel very compassionate towards them all.I love him and I miss him. But I feel used. What do I do here??? How can I express my feelings without pulling out the prop and upsetting his Mom? What happens about the funeral ?

    I have dated many men during the 5 years i have known G . But my heart yearns for G still. I have leaned right back , banished him from mind and he ALWAYS contacts me eventually.He knows my feelings for him and yet he wont respect them by staying away. He wants the benefits of intimate friendship without the responsibility of a relationship.
    Recently he flew into town so he could take me out for my 50th birthday. He is not all bad 🙂

    Advice anyone???

  116.  #116Carmen on May 24, 2010 at 11:02 am


    I love your work. It has been very helpful for me to reinforce my own beliefs about relationships.

    I am currently doing the online dating “thing”. I am communicating with a man I think is a potential mate. In his first email to me he very declaritivly stated that he was anxious to find a match because he was a widow and has a seven year old child. The child now lives with his grandmother but it sounds as though he would eventually like to have the child live with him and I assume a future spouse. Based on this I think the relationship has some portential. I am a credentialed elementary school teacher and lost my mother as a teenager. I think I am able to emphathize with this unfortunate child’s plight.

    We started out following the routine of dating site ( by answering questions and taking compatibility tests. Rick soon asked if he could communicate with me outside of the dating site and I agreed. Since then, for the last several weeks we have been communicating every 2 to 3 days. Rick recently asked me to write my toughts as to what my aims and interests were in a relationship. This was difficult for me but I listened to your relationship tape with Christian Carter and I was able to tell Rick three important factors that I feel are necessary for me to be happy in a relationship. I did not hear back from him for 6 days. During that time I really felt jilted and a little angry. Like so many of your other readers and women in general, I do have some baggage and fears around being in a relationship with the “incredible disapearing man”. When he finally did respond, he acknowledged my responses commented that he was asking this in a general way. This made me feel very tenuous and confused about the situation. We haven’t even met yet and I would prefer to get to know him a little better before we meet. I am not certain what to make of this.

    I am also my 93 year old father’s full-time caretaker and I live with my father. Fortunatley he is mentally with it, but does require assistance with his daily care needs. Rick is very aware of this and has been most complimentary about my role as caretaker. I am supposing that it fits right in with his needs for a caretaker for his child, a role which I am comfortable with (assuming that once we wer to meet, we hit it off) Needless to say, I am very busy and an extended courtship would be difficult.

    I have not yet responded to Rick’s email and I am feeling like I should not respond without the same delay in time that he showed me with his last email. In other works, I am going to wait to reply for at least 6 days.

    I wonder what you think of this. How would you respond if you were me. Are we doing the backwards dance. I really don’t want to establish a negative relationship pattern in which he takes me for granted. Again, your advice would be appreciated.I am happy to send you some of the emails we have exchanged so that you can get the timber of the communications that we have had.
    Carmen Marron

  117.  #117Rori Raye on May 24, 2010 at 11:27 am

    emmy – welcome – and you’re not going to like this. He had his chance. He’s not going to choose you. He wants you to be a secret booty call. Please, plese work on your self-respect and self-esteem and drop him like a hot potato. He’s not worth your time. And you need to practice being a ‘Siren”! Love, Rori

  118.  #118Rori Raye on May 24, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Rosa – Welcome, and we each hae only so much energy. With the energy you’re expending on this man and his family – you could besaving abused children and colunteering in any number of ways that would FULFILL you. Stop this. Just say you’re busy and so sorry, can’t find the time to talk. make this the TRUTH. Love, Rori

  119.  #119Rori Raye on May 24, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Aos – Carmen – I deleted your last name…please use just your first – I’ve been asked so much AFTERWARDS to delete it – so much better for us to just keep it first names or beautiful made up names…Love, Rori

  120.  #120Carmen on May 24, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Rori, I realize that I used too many actual names in my email to your blog. I am sorry to ask you to do this. Can you please change the names involved Rick and Carmen? In the future, I will take your advice and use ficticious names.

    thank you Carmen
    p.s. I suggest names like Carole or Cathy and Robert or rufus, names that start with the same first letter of the actual name. I am also hoping for some feed back, if I am in a imanginary relationship,how should I proceed

  121.  #121phoenix on May 27, 2010 at 4:39 am

    Hello , i’m a 22 years old girl,i love a guy , we’re JUST FRIENDS for almost 1 year, u know i have been in love with him for almost 2 years, now i want to make a serious relationship with him but I’m afraid.I can’t find my way in this love. He’s a guy with so different and also hidden aspects.I want to make him know i love him but i don’t know how ?? even i don’t know if this job is good or not? my fear is this that i’m afraid if i express my love for him he’ll go far away from me , i don’t know what should i do?? please advise me.thxxxx

  122.  #122Rori Raye on May 27, 2010 at 9:58 am

    phoenix, Welcome – and this is tricky – as everyone here will tell you. To change from friends to lovers…HE has to want it. My guess would be that he KNOWS how you feel – he can pick it up in your vibe, and he’s just not wanting to do anything about it. If you speak about this to him – which I would advise because having this kind of non-reciprocal relationship in your life is very damaging to yur self-esteem and hold you back from getting a real relationship – if he’s not into you in that way – it will destroy your “friendship” – at least the way it is now. I assume he dates other women and shares those experiences with you – but are YOU really dating other men? That would be the absolute first step for you – Circular Dating…and detaching from him enough that he can see you a bit differently. From there, we’ll get you the words to talk …Love, Rori

  123.  #123Brenda on May 27, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Phoenix, welcome! When you talk with him, do you make extended eye contact with him? If so, how does he react? I would try 5 seconds of deep, unspeaking eye contact. It’s a safe way to let a man know you are attracted. I also like what Rori said to you, very much!

  124.  #124Brenda on May 27, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Carmen, RE: #116 – Welcome! Of course, only you can decide what is best for you as you develop your personal relational style. But, since you asked, I will tell you what I would do and say if I were in your position.

    I agree with Rori when she says emails, texts, and calls should be a bare minimum before meeting. If a man asked me such deep-reaching questions in an email, I would have responded, “I really appreciate your interest, and I would feel far more comfortable answering your question in person!”

    If a new relationship goes on for very long without personally meeting, it is more doubtful by the day that you will ever meet. Either way, keep in mind that a high percentage of communication takes place nonverbally!

    If I were telling a new man my aims and interests in a relationship, I would very much like to be looking into his eyes as I answered, to much better gauge his feelings for myself.

    If a man waited 6 days to email me, I wouldn’t do the same. You are just making one more step towards the non-established relationship to peter out.

    I also wouldn’t be in a hurry to rush the relationship, either on your account or his, in terms of your situations in life. I am 46, and my biological clock is ticking. I am really lonely after too many long distance relationships in adulthood and an emotionally abusive childhood.

    My past inclination has been to jump into relationships, on account of all that. But mostly it has gotten me a lot of pain and hooking up with men who don’t deserve me.

    I would rather take a year or two to establish a very healthy, intimate, trusting relationship, to really KNOW my man, and have the rest of my life in joy, than to rush a relationship and end up with more disaster, which mars my past.

  125.  #125phoenix on May 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    🙂 , Rori no i’m not dating another man , i dont have any attraction to anyone else ,
    Brenda no we usually do’nt make eye contact .

  126.  #126Rosa on May 28, 2010 at 6:39 am

    Thanks Rori,

    I have turned off skype , and all other contact , and despite feeling Guilty for ignoring him when he is going through this I feel much ,much better for honoring myself and ignoring his emotional booty call , and the sick feeling has gone away. I am ok with not being his friend ..AT LAST after 5 years .Enough.

    Thank you for your programs and comments , Rori,especially about being a Junkie for love and Friends with Benefits.These articles helped me so much , plus the “Reconnect “program has shown me how to salvage my self esteem. I just hope all the women out there get the message that SEX =CHEMICAL ADDICTION and that kind of chemistry is dangerous to self esteem unless the man is totally into you and a committed relationship.

    I have also been online again this week and have several new men calling and meetings to arrange shortly. I am now very conservative about sex and physical connection after this long struggle with being a FWB!

  127.  #127Amy F on May 28, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Hello Sirens,
    First, Rosa, I admire the progress you have made in such a short time. Amazing. I will remember that sex=chemical addiction!
    A question for all of you about Circular Dating. How much should we reveal to the men we are dating about the others? There is one man who is almost angry with me that I’m dating other people. I don’t know why, we have been out only a few times – it’s almost like the concept is really eating away at him. He keeps asking me about his “competition”. I am not sure how to answer this question. I understand the concept of circular dating and have experienced the power of it. However, I am not sure if I am putting it into practice correctly. It’s messy but feels much better than being heart-sick. Thanks for your help!

  128.  #128Brenda on May 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Amy, I am pretty new at this myself, but if a man asked me about the other men I’m dating, I would say something like this, “I feel more comfortable when I don’t commit to one man up front. I am just getting to know different men, and I am simply being honest with you that I am not ready to make a commitment to any one man. I plan to continue to date until I have a ring on my finger.”


    Here’s a quote from Rori in that string:

    “Ask them what they’re thinking about the two of you when they complain.
    Ask what they want, what they see.
    Share your feelings in total Feeling Messages about how attached and weird you can feel when you’re exclusive and hoping for a ring, and that you’ve just discovered it feels so much better to just let the man be in charge.
    In other words, exclusivity isn’t your goal here . A “boyfriend” isn’t your goal – marriage is!!!
    As long as you’re not having sex with anyone – or at least with just one man…you can stay sane here. And if you are having sex – you’re just going to have to be supremely even MORE Rock Star Diva!
    You do this by totally TELLING THE TRUTH at ALL TIMES to ALL MEN.
    You do this by focusing on yourself so you are as much in touch with how you feel every single moment – so that you’re responding and soft and open and spontaneous…and AWARE of your impulses and words – as you can possibly be.
    Love, Rori”

  129.  #129Amy F on May 28, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    Thank you so much for your insight. It feels strange not to meet a man who is interested and start daydreaming about having him as my boyfriend and driving off into the sunset together (you know how we can do that so easily!). However, I feel so much better because of it, I know its the right thing to do.
    Thanks so much for your support!

  130.  #130Brenda on June 1, 2010 at 7:54 am

    You’re welcome!

    I’m still a learner! A lot of times I say what I know is right, and in the process, that reinforces it to me. I still struggle to DO it when I am in the moment. Habit is a powerful thing and challenging to change.

  131.  #131Rosa on June 3, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Hi All,

    Just an update ..since last week when my Imaginary ex pulled the Emotional Booty Call , I have really felt MUCH better. I was Skyped again , and I made my speech with feeling messages, ie , that I felt sorry for his family situation, that I felt sad when i saw him online and that I missed him, and that I felt bad having this contact. I told him I felt uncomfortable when i saw him and I felt used for emotional support. i told him although I had feelings for him i did not want to be friends.What did he think? He said that he couldnt bear to lose me. Then the connection died. A couple of texts later and I am now feeling very free.

    I realised at last how much energy I was giving him over the years in support when he wanted it , and that saying NO to friends, especially while his father is dying , was the final step in freeing myself. It felt WRONG for me , because I am a doctor , i CARE for people , I help them when they are low and defenceless ,but I did it anyway. I realise he wanted my medical knowledge and reassurance , and I am over it! I want to be cared for like that !!!!!

    Then I went on a really HOT date with someone very cute and smart and interesting and have 3 other men, plus him , all wanting dates now.

    Thank you for these blogs, its helped a great deal.

  132.  #132Simply Shannon on June 4, 2010 at 5:08 am

    Yeah Rosa! I feel happy reading your post!! Way to go!!

  133.  #133Goddess Apriluv on June 7, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Good news! I have been dating a wonderful man for the past 4 months. Right from the beginning, I shared with him my dreams. I expressed I didn’t want to be a girlfriend and I was dating to become someones wife. Opening my heart and sharing my dreams and wants in a relationship from the beginning without feeling I had to wait to see where the relationship is going made all the difference. I practice Rori Raye’s “Leaning Back,” and then let him do all the work. I continued to circuit date. I told him I was circular dating. Yes, he continued to pursue me, called me, text me, asked me out on dates (being respectful by asking me out at least three days ahead of time); he made all the plans, did all that is necessary in the “dance.” We continued our dance in the “relationship bubble.” I refrained from becoming sexuallly intimate and I expressed using my “speech” how sexually intimacy can wait until we both feel secure and know where our relationship is going. At one point, he questioned me about how I felt about moving in with him and again, I used another “speech” about how I did not want to be a live in girlfriend and felt comfortable staying in my own apartment; shacking up was not an option. Basically, he was testing the waters 🙂 I calmly and confidently stood my ground and continued circular dating. Then one day he came to me with an engagement ring and a proposal for marriage! It was soooo much easier to get what I wanted using Rori’s tools I have been practicing from “How to Reconnect Your Relationship” and “Modern Siren.” Yes, I must continue to use the tools as we move forward!

    It is hard to believe it was just last January that I was on the floor crying because of a break up I had had with a man who I had moved in with. I had to suddently leave because I realized moving in with him while he was stalling was not in my best interest and made me feel “yucky.” Yes, I had to stand up for what was best for me which was to leave and not to wait to see or try to figure out where the relationship boat was going. I used Rori’s rule not to beat myself up and focused on myself.

    After reflecting on the failed relationship, I realized he was not the best man for me. Yes, he still continues to contact me and ask me out; pining after me for sex; I refused and realized as much as I once loved him, he was not the one for me. He was never emotionally ready for the kind of intimacy and relationship I truly want and deserve.

    And suddenly fabulous men were coming at mefrom everywhere. I began circular dating (dated five men) and dated myself! Yes, I dated just to be dating and then he came! Yes, Keven came into my life and took no time to claim me with an engagement ring and marriage proposal. We have set the date for October 10, 2010 (10-10-10).

    In the meantime, I will continue using Rori’s tools to deepen our intimacy and our love. When I find myself falling back into my bad habits of leaning forward, I stop myself! I just STOP! I stop talking, calling, planning, directing and focus on myself; making myself beautiful, calm while focusing on my personal dreams. OMGOODNESS! I even use Rori’s tools in my professional life as an educator! “Learning Back” has made me feel smart, strong, confident and CALM! Yes, “Leaning Back” can also make some people feel uncomfortable if the intent for communication is negative. Yes, it shifts your vibe and repells negative energy! I could go on and on but for now . . . . . I will continue to transform my personal and professional life while practicing and implementing Rori’s tools each day!

    Love from:

    One Goddess to all Goddesses!

  134.  #134Simply Shannon on June 7, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Congratulations! 10-10-10… that’s awesome!

  135.  #135Jilly on June 7, 2010 at 11:37 am

    I love love love hearing success stories!! Thank you Goddess Apriluv for sharing your story and congrats!!! Using Rori’s tools have also helped me in my professional life too…I am definitely more confident and I feel heard and you’re right it does repel negative energy somehow…it’s absolutely amazing 😉
    Hope everyone is having a great day!

  136.  #136Oklahoma Dentist on July 19, 2011 at 11:01 am

    I hate being the one that is thinking that there is something there when there isn’t, but I also hate having to be the one to call something off when I can see that it is going no where.