Attachment to a Man, Relationship Anxiety, Hormones and Sex Too Soon

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sex and relationshipCindy is my classic client. Seemingly strong, high self-esteem – until something kicks in the “attachment” hormone and downward we go emotionally. I’m going to jump off of her letter to me and see if I can help you if this keeps happening to you:

“Rori, This is all so different… I just got your ebook and started working in it. You are so open and honest and I really relate. I am 55 years old, men are attracted to me and I have no trouble meeting and initially spending time with them. Once it goes into more than casual dating (kisses, calls, regular dates) I seem to change from “easy to be with” Cindy to “I have to keep him and he may see the real me and leave for someone better” Cindy.

I have always tried to be what “he” wants and to make him into what I want. This has not worked and I have been single for over 20 years since my divorce. I recently met a wonderful man and it was going well for 7 weeks. We slept together last Thursday and I then felt insecure and when he told a woman at the marina that I was “not his wife, I was his friend”, I told him I thought we had more than that I wouldn’t have slept with him if i thought we were only friends….. etc. and he has not called me since. I am not calling or texting him even though I really want to.

I believe if he really wants me he will call and work through this. I need to learn new ways to think about the relationship, myself and him. I keep doing the same old things and they don’t work. I had a therapist tell me a few years ago “what you’re doing isn’t working”. He was right, but he really had no new way for me to do it. I really need and want help to change my destructive (self and relationship) patterns.

I go into the relationship thinking it will be the best ever, then it is good for a while, then I get insecure and needy and the man goes away. I want to be married, yet I begin to think it’s impossible for me. What should be my first step? Thank you for the emails and the work you put into this. I am excited about learning a new way to do my life. Cindy”

My answer:

The simple answer here is around sex.

Don’t have it if you can’t handle it.

Don’t have it until you know EXACTLY where a man stands in the “relationship,” what sex means to him – and HE knows where YOU stand and what sex means to you.

If you’re not absolutely certain you’re both in the same place, you’ve weighed the risks and you’re willing to take those risks and trust yourself to deal with whatever happens in a way that HELPS you, not hurts you…then go for it.

If not – wait.  Just keep talking.  Talk. And….most important:

Circular Date.  Do NOT become exclusive.

I love a strong position about not having sex too early – and just not being interested in it unless it’s part of the marriage deal.

But that’s not for everyone.  Wouldn’t be for me, might not for you.

But I sure wouldn’t want to handle sex the way I USED to, either.

I’d like it to be about MY pleasure, and have absolutely nothing to do with what’s going on with him.

And yet – that reduces it all to “sport f*cking” – which is totally no fun at all and never feels good the following week (most of the time not even the following hour).

And yet – sometimes, to go with the flow and allow things to move forward – you’ve gotta take a chance. (Some would say no… but let’s go with a different scenario here…)

How is it (and IS it) possible to have sex and not become attached to a man?

Is it possible, if you like him enough to sleep with him, to not have your hormones and homing instincts kick in?

Because it worked for me with my husband – I have to say “yes.”  I couldn’t, in all honesty, say anything else.

It worked for my friend Virginia Feingold Clark, even though it took a few years for her to figure it out and then, once she did, quickly and easily get married to her husband (she’s got a great book coming out about all this soon, I’ll let you know…) – even though it didn’t work for her BEFORE she met her husband.

So – here’s the deal – when you meet the man who wants to marry you – it doesn’t matter what you do around sex.

And when you meet all other men who will never marry you – it doesn’t matter what you do around sex, because that relationship will never work, and so you’re very, very likely to become attached and hormonal and go downhill emotionally.

So – wouldn’t it be nice if we could just identify our future husband – and then we wouldn’t have to worry about it at all?  We could do what we like and it would all work out!

And so – here’s the key question:  Can we identify our future husband?  Can we know if a man intends to marry us?  Or are we just always guessing or going on our most often faulty instincts and “intuition”?

Trying to figure it out beforehand is never really possible – though you may feel strongly about what’s going to happen.

What we have to do is trust ourselves that whatever happens we’ll be okay. Not only okay, but happy with the experiences we chose to have and the way we feel about them. Life includes some risk – or our desire for safety will run us until we live in a small little box.

Be prepared to make mistakes (if there even IS such a thing). It’s part of the ride of life…

Love, Rori

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759 Comments

  1.  #1Kristine on September 12, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Don’t cry because its over, smile because it happened!

    Sex is part of life as an adult, so enjoy it to the max! Its all about MY pleasure. As soon as I started to think this way, my body felt more relaxed and I became much more choosey about the men I got involved with… and also began attracting good men, who don’t poof the next day, like bees to honey! ; ) In fact, I love to kick them out after a great night so I can get a good night’s sleep. Feels so good to be a feeling, sensual woman. Ride the wave!

    Kristine



  2.  #2Kristine on September 12, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Also, what has worked for me is to ask myself if I do this for MY pleasure and never see the guy again, would I still do it? If I do it in the spirit of true love, it really doesn’t matter. Yes I may feel sad and lonely if I never see him again, but if its meant to be, or not to be, so be it. I can still enjoy the moment for what it is. And its not “using” a man (although I know a few who would like that) since I’ll be there for the right one when he is ready to make the commitment. I’m not turning him away. But I’m not chasing either. Its hard work to learn detachment, especially with hormones kicking in. But its good training for the body. No pain, no gain. Not everything in life is going to be easy. If we want to avoid pain at all costs, sure, don’t do it till you are married. But sometimes taking a risk can result in the best time of your life and some wonderful memories to look back on. I never regret any of those times or those men. They have all been gifts to me. Even the ones that hurt me emotionally. I learned so much about myself and how to be a better, stronger, more compassionate person and better at relationships and caring about people. Its up to us to decide how we want to live our individual lives, as long as we are not hurting anyone else, there is no right or wrong.

    Kristine



  3.  #3Isa on September 12, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Thank you for another amazing blog….I have learned so much from you….I love the comment to NOT have sex if you can’t handle it. I find that I can’t handle casual sex at all. I have had it before, a few times, and uggh how awful the feeling. I also know the misery of getting attached to soon…to MR. WRONG who ignores my needs and wanting to escape and not feeling like I had an option (now I know I do).

    So help me Rori…what do a SIren like myself do? I feel as though I am in the middle and their is no answer…I just want to cry because I hate becoming a gooy ball of insecurity …the last experiment I did when I tried to deepen intimacy through sex, my feelings became raw and I hate feeling like that….I’ve now met a better man..whose emotional…communicative….and is open to a future…but have a few “loose ends to tie up…I am attracted to him but fear being with him and not resolivng the loose ends but I don’t want to monopolize his decisions and life…I feel he should want me enough to resolve the ends without my asking about it ( is that okay) and if I ask that I would be shifting the dynamic that is going swell right now. Precoitous. Aghh okay I will go and riff for a while.



  4.  #4Kristine on September 12, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    It becomes a problem when we think about it too much. There is too much information out there around whether or not to have sex, and it confuses women. Women who have been hurt or abused find it very difficult to simply trust and enjoy men and sex. They have lost touch with their femininity. There are some great resources out there to help you recapture the essence of being a woman. You have to heal yourself first to be in a place emotionally where you don’t NEED a man, but just want to enjoy the pleasure of his company and his body. Where your life is otherwise perfect and you can just appreciate whatever he has to offer and add to it. Where you can trust that he is generally a good guy who wants to make you happy. We all make mistakes. But why not just let love into our lives and be happy with what we’ve got. My life is great. I can do anything. I am loved and I am awesome. : )

    Kristine



  5.  #5Kristine on September 12, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Oh and one more thing, to me, sex is never casual. It is an expression of love.

    We have to also respect the differences between men and women. We both feel different things with sex. It will never be the same. And yes, there are men out there who are purely selfish and we should try to weed them out. But the majority (I have faith in men) do want to simply serve women and make them happy. All humans want love. Attracting the right guy becomes easy once we learn to understand men, realize our differences and face our fears. In addition to Rori’s website, I have found the website TheFeminineWoman.com very helpful too.

    Kristine



  6.  #6Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    I love sex and it always works wonderfully for me. It never concerns me when to have sex, when I feel like it and it feels right, I’ll go for it.

    And no, I don’t become attached because of that. It’s true that it creates more attraction and bonding with the guy, which otherwise would have taken much longer, especially if the sex is mind-boggling (and when it is, it usually never stopped at that with me. Two became my long term lovers (my hubby is one of them).



  7.  #7Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Rori said:
    “I’d like it to be about MY pleasure, and have absolutely nothing to do with what’s going on with him.”

    I second this. I always do it because I want the pleasure. I love the pleasure and I expect they guy to attend to my pleasure first and foremost. And when he does, the reward is mind-boggling to him and he’ll be hooked, usually.

    If the sex is bad or so so, I perhaps won’t be interested in seeing him again as a date. That’s how important sex is.

    If the sex is great and he’s a great lover, his attraction level skyrockets in my eyes and I’ll perhaps think of him more often and quite “obsessively” (as what happened with Seattle Guy, actually 😉 ) even when I felt “cool” when I first lay eyes on him.

    That’s why I don’t wait for sex. It serves no purpose for me. Sometimes, the earlier the sex, the better for me. It saves a lot of time. But it’s me, I don’t recommend it for everyone.



  8.  #8Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Seattle Guy is actually just another proof for me that when to have sex doesn’t matter. In fact if we hadn’t done it first night we met, I doubt we would still be talking (well, maybe he still would but I definitely wouldn’t have felt as strong about seeing him again).

    But the passion we shared was so rare and he was immediately hooked. Third day after we met, he made plans to fly me in for a weekend and already refers to me as Mrs. M (his last name). It’s totally out of control and so unexpected.

    In this case, sex works to bond two people much more quickly than otherwise would have. It doesn’t make him think less of me as common wisdom tells us, women. In fact, quite the opposite.

    I’m excited but I feel I have to remind him to slow down a bit as well. This is all just hormone -his and mine- and we won’t know if we have anything until the highs subside a bit. 🙂



  9.  #9Jacqueline on September 12, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Wow, Rori!!! when you meet the guy who’s gonna marry, whatever you do around sex won’t matter? Totally genius and totally my experience. You are amazing!



  10.  #10BarbinOz on September 12, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Jacqueline I LOVE this too,

    So – here’s the deal – when you meet the man who wants to marry you – it doesn’t matter what you do around sex.

    LOVE IT 😀



  11.  #11Melb(a) Lynne on September 12, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Great post Rori, love it!!
    Gotta rush to work… it’s 9am in Oz..
    Thanks so much… Lynne 🙂



  12.  #12Melb(a) Lynne on September 12, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Well, re the sex thing, interesting cos from the guy point of view… my 2nd husband said… we had sex (well at least had had a couple of dates!!!… but was hard holding back!!!phewww)… he didn’t want to ‘muck anything up’… but having it too soon. ie he knew from the ‘get go’ that i was ‘different’



  13.  #13Jason Miller on September 12, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I personally believe that most men are driven at first by sex and then, after having sex, are better capable of connecting in an intimate way. Women tend to go about it the opposite direction. That is, women need some intimacy before they feel ready for sex. Now this model is a lot like a combustion engine. It takes a turn of the key to start the engine running, but once it’s running, both the man and the woman are getting their needs met.

    As for attachment happening following sex, that is different for everyone at different times during their lives. I believe both men and women have the capacity for unattached (Circular Dating) and monogamous states. It’s just a question of knowing solidly what your values and needs are at a given point in time. It becomes a question of self-respect. As a man, I would personally never compromise any of my personal values just to get laid. (I guess I’ve finally grown up! 🙂 As a woman, you should never sacrifice one of your values just because you’re desperately craving intimacy (or sex).



  14.  #14Lucy on September 12, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Jason (and Jonathon, if you read this thread) —

    What do you think about what Katarina wrote about the guy becoming more attached to the girl after sex? That has always been my experience, too — the GUY gets hooked. But everything we hear says the opposite — the girl gets attached, the guy doesn’t.

    The classic scenario where a woman sleeps with a guy and he disappears — that’s never happened to me. Instead, they get “addicted” (current guy’s word choice).

    Does sex make a guy feel more attached to a woman or not???

    I feel so confused!!!!

    Here, Jason, you seem to be saying what has been my experience: “I personally believe that most men are driven at first by sex and then, after having sex, are better capable of connecting in an intimate way.”



  15.  #15Carole on September 12, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Hi Rory

    I love your advice and your blogs. I am trying circular dating and seems to be working out. But..please tell me..specifically…exactly in words..what do you say to a guy, who is polite and sensitive, that you indeed want to circulate date..ie., not be exclusive. I have tried. But then backed off, thinking that he will for sure a)not undertand and b) walk away (maybe rightfully so, since he wants to be exclusive.) Perhaps if I had some examples of quoted material to say it would work better. So far I have said..after dipping my toe in the water..and then back on ground..um…I just don’t want to talk about exclusivity right now because its too soon (2 months) but I really like and would like to continue seeing you. How is that so far??

    That is , how do you say to a guy, some advice I have heard from you, albeit, a bit out of context, “Until there is a ring and date” I am not being someone’s girlfried.”

    Help with the phrasing on this please. 🙂

    Carole



  16.  #16Lucy on September 12, 2010 at 7:12 pm


  17.  #17Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Lucy, I don’t think you need to be confused. If something works for you, stick to it. Don’t follow “rules” blindly. That’s the Buddhist in me :).

    We are perhaps 10% of the female population who can enjoy sex for the sake of physical gratification without any agenda and expectations. That’s a goddess quality that is very irresistible to men. Mind you, sex is very important to them.

    Be grateful about it. Would you rather have hang-ups about sex like many women?

    Yes, men do bond after sex, especially if they find you really special in the first place. If they don’t find you that attractive to begin with, they will still have sex but don’t call you again or refuse to have anything serious until they finally disappear.

    Some guys did disappear on me after sex but I’m okay with that, mainly because I didn’t feel that much chemistry with them during it anyway (or perhaps their intention was one night stands anyway) but that was rare. Most got addicted. 🙂

    It never made me feel bad or cheap or used though even when they did disappear. Nobody can make you feel cheap but yourself.



  18.  #18Jason Miller on September 12, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    14: Lucy

    I do believe that men can get hooked just as women can. Everyone is different in this regard and at different times in our lives. The classic scenario when the guy leaves after having sex once or a few times has to do with the guy not wanting a real relationship. Men who do want a real relationship will tend to get attached more easily. I know I’ve been in both places at different times in my life.

    So I go back to the original concept of screening men to see if they match your values and boundaries first before committing to a relationship, if that’s what you’re looking for. And sex is just one of the aspects of your values and boundaries.

    Men who are strongly wanting a steady relationship need to be careful too. We need to look before we leap and not overcommit when we haven’t had a chance to get to know the woman either.



  19.  #19Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    When a guy adores you, i.e. everything about you works for him (your voice, the way you feel to his touch, talk, move, walk, dress, kiss, moan, etc…), great sex with you will make him hooked, contrary to what many “experts” say that men tend to lose interest in you after too-early sex.

    These are his text messages yesterday:

    SG: I don’t think I told you how much I love your voice… So sexy!!!

    Me: Tell me more, darling.

    SG: The tone -the feminine sweetness-, your accent and what you have to say… All works for me, esp. when you are telling me how much you are feeling good and liking me.

    I have had another guy who I dated last year (we had great 2 dates) who unfortunately lives in a different city said the same thing that “everything about me works for him,” but the timing with this one -even when he lives in a different city also- perhaps works better for us for further connection to happen.



  20.  #20Daria on September 12, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Im working with some Wendi Friesen hypnosis video,

    and I just went back to when i was 5 and had chased this boy and he said no and ran from me, while telling me he liked a (feminine) girl in his class.

    well this time when i looked for the positive, i saw a lil girl giggling and her lil butt and she was vulnerable, she was my lil girl self that was sensitive and cute, but i used to cover her with my boy!

    and i got the message that my lil girl IS attractive as vulnerable as she is, while my lil boy did not work , it was because my lil girl is SO soft and vulnerable and she Is the attractive one

    this is a great shift i feel happy and good about

    i fele more lovely soft and lil sweet girl ish about me



  21.  #21Ragnell on September 12, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Thanks for your note about taking risks and making mistakes. I needed it after what I wrote on the comments of your last entry. I felt really idiotic after mssaging an “I love you” to this guy. Now I know it was not only my feelings but also my hormones taking over me. (I was PMSing!) I’m menstruating right now and I feel liberated and much better.



  22.  #22Brenda on September 12, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Lucy, RE: #15 – Oh, yeah! Steve Azar is all that! Oncest again, we have the same taste in men! That song is really beautiful, too. I love it when a song honors a woman.



  23.  #23Brenda on September 12, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Daria,

    RE: #18 – That is beautiful healing and growth! I feel so happy for you!

    I want you to know that I do see you as fundamentally soft and sweet and feminine.

    I apologize if I hurt you with my comment recently about anger and bitchiness.

    I really value and appreciate who you are. And, I am still riding the high of the deep growth you led me through last Tuesday! I have been rereading what you wrote to me and meditating on it. Thanks again!

    Love,
    The Dork



  24.  #24Brenda on September 12, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Ragnell,

    I did the same with Ryan. It’s hard to NOT speak your feelings when they are so powerful and you are making an effort to unzip your heart.

    I am learning to show compassion to my weak parts.



  25.  #25Brenda on September 12, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Katarina,

    Hey sexy lady! How cum you show up every time we have a thread on sexxx? LOL! 🙂



  26.  #26Jacqueline on September 12, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    @ Katarina….OMG**** – your program is called men made easy….double entendre intended? Was trying to find a contact form for you….wanna be a Friday Interview on my blog? Let me know….

    and Men SHOULD be easy!!! any which way you want ’em.

    Jacqueline @ houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com



  27.  #27Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Hi Brenda, I feel so judged…NOT.

    LOL. I can smell it from mile away, obviously.

    But seriously, was the other threads I was on about sex? Partly I guess.

    Ah well, that’s me…what can I say? (shrug) I’m this walking, talking ball of desire…(do I sound enticing like a porn diva yet?).



  28.  #28Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    Ha Brenda, I feel so judged…NOT.

    LOL.

    I smell it from miles away, obviously.

    What can I say (shrug)? I’m this walking, talking ball of desire (do I sound as enticing as a porn diva?) 😉



  29.  #29Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Hi Jacqueline, no that’s not mine. I’m just promoting it cause I love it.

    Sure about the interview. How do we proceed?



  30.  #30Jacqueline on September 12, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Hey, Ms. Katarina! Well, Men should be Easy…I mean like not even need instructions. Smile…

    Every Friday I do a Friday interview with someone whose blog is interesting….so…..

    I can send you a list of questions based on your blog if you’ll send me your email – I’m @ houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com; or you can pick something you’d just like me to publish/promote….with links, etc.

    So, talk to you soon and thanks!!!

    J



  31.  #31Katarina Phang on September 12, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Oh Jacq, yes men should be easy. They are for the most part if you understand which button to push. They’re like cats, pretty low maintenance, prolly a bit too low maintenance they are oblivious.

    Will email you soon.



  32.  #32Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Just one more post before I go to bed. Just got off the 90 mins phone conversation with Seattle Guy.

    When a guy adores you, i.e. all about you (your voice, the way you talk, walk, dress, kiss, smell, feel to his touch, move, moan, etc.) works for him, he won’t lose interest in you after “too-early” sex. In fact it will get him hooked to you much more quickly (he confirmed this tonight on the phone).

    Here are his text messages yesterday:

    SG: I don’t think I told u how much I love ur voice… So sexy!!!

    Me: Tell me more, darling.

    SG: The tone -the feminine sweetness-, ur accent and what u have to say… All works for me. Esp when u r telling me how much u r feeling good and liking me.

    Me: Thanks for brighting up my days since the day I met u. I feel grateful and lucky to have found u.

    SG: Thanks for saying so… U have lightened up my life too.

    There is actually another out-of-town guy I had great 2 dates last year who said that he wanted to know me better because “everything about me works for him” but this one is of perhaps better timing that makes further connection possible for both of us.

    Who knows just in less than a week I feel my life is going to turn upside down: whatever outcome I might get from this fling with him or the reconciliation with my hubby. CD will with no doubt add to the drama. Stay tuned! 😀



  33.  #33Daria on September 13, 2010 at 1:36 am

    i just realized in romanian, old school songs,

    girls of our countri we’d call them Mândre

    which means now: proud. f. pl.

    so i just got an aha moment about being feminine or a quality that makes women attractive is being proud

    and i think of men, and when i think of a man proud of himself i feel fear, that he is gonna be too into himself and ignore Me

    and i feel like i want to put him down, or shut down in front of him, and avoid him, like he’s too much he’s too good for me

    i dono if its hte same for men. maybe it doesnt even matter.

    maybe being proud is a feminine quality anyway of appreciation

    mm

    mm

    i love the idea of being proud

    im loud and im proud

    im proud of myself

    in all areas of my life

    no matter what anyone says – because i immediately felt triggered and saw a scene in my head where someone was yelling loudlly at me and attacking me – was it even real?

    i feel attacked

    im a mandra of me

    our girls are mandre

    thats the best

    yum



  34.  #34Daria on September 13, 2010 at 1:37 am

    best triggers me. everyone can be best. im best at being me. and im o mandra



  35.  #35Andrea on September 13, 2010 at 5:52 am

    Rori-

    I dated this younger guy for a year… he bounced in and out of my life… he told me he loved me… wanted a relationship…. then wanted something casual. I kept telling him that I am not a casual girl. Finally he made me his “girlfriend” and came out about it so to speak. 3 weeks later we were talking and he told me he didnt want to be obligated.. to be in touch with me every day (something that made me so happy). So I pulled the trigger an told him that again I am not a casual girl and that this was not working for me. He lives in my town and I have ran into him quite a few times. At one point a month ago I found out that he either drug overdosed or tried to commit suicide. I sent him flowers and got a verbal thank you once we were face to face in a gym two weeks later.Now it seems that he totally hates me. Every time we run into each other I make it easy and relaxed. I have wanted something with this guy..butI dont know what to do except give him time and space.

    Any thoughts



  36.  #36life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 7:33 am

    I think Katarina said something about you can only make yourself feel cheap. I agree. What still does trigger me is double standards. I know a man who watches the porn movies of a particular woman, who he finds very, very beautiful, and then goes on to say… why does she do that to herself (cheapen herself that way)? I said, well you watch it and enjoy it, don’t you? So maybe she gets great enjoyment out of what she does. So, it’s OK for you to watch her but not OK for her to do that? So then if I were to engage in good, freaky sex with a man who has a mindset like this, are not the chances good that he will also view me as cheap? Even if I don’t view myself as cheap, why would I want to be with a man who does? Does this make any sense?



  37.  #37Mercedes on September 13, 2010 at 7:51 am

    I don’t have time for anything other than posting this so I can subscribe…

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  38.  #38Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 9:06 am

    28: Katarina Phang

    “Oh Jacq, yes men should be easy. They are for the most part if you understand which button to push. They’re like cats, pretty low maintenance, prolly a bit too low maintenance they are oblivious.”

    I very strongly take issue with your metaphor, Katarina. Men are not robots controlled by a panel of buttons. I sense that you are missing the appreciation for men and masculinity that is required to make a true, loving connection with a man.

    Now that being said, I agree that men should be easy to be with, but I also believe WOMEN should be easy to be with too. That’s not to say that all of us are easy to be with as individuals. But the objective is to get both sexes congruent and clear to the point where connections and relationships are made easily and are inherently win-win for everyone. The goal is more love and less pain. We are all still human beings.



  39.  #39janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:11 am

    jason,
    i’m so glad you’re here!



  40.  #40Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 9:14 am

    35: janjune

    Thank you.



  41.  #41Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Jason, I didn’t mean it that way…hell NO! : o The same way women are easy if you know which buttons to push (or not to push).

    It’s the “owner” manual thing…about understanding how each other works.

    Au contraire, I understand and appreciate masculinity much better now. Why do you think I do what I do now? How can I do this without strong appreciation and willingness to understand men? How can I teach my clients to connect to men without the knowledge?

    I connect beautifully with most men/dates I have and that’s how some of them are hooked and feel so masculine around me because I let them be men (and feel like men) and lead.



  42.  #42janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:15 am

    i so agree.
    the whole point is coming to a place of feeling safe and appreciated by one another…
    *not* feeling used or put down or less than!

    i love it that you’re here standing up/speaking up for the psyche of the GOOD men we are trying to meet and connect with. lovelovelove you being here sailor heroman jason!



  43.  #43Denise on September 13, 2010 at 9:17 am

    #34

    I think women may often underestimate how intuitive and ‘smart’ men really are. I’ve done a lot of studying and learning about women, men, relationships–which has caused me to grow and mature as a woman. I am amazed and pleasantly delighted when I’m with a man who says something that I learned that either, 1.) I didn’t know before my studying, or 2.) I thought would be ‘beyond’ a man to know. This has happened with many men many times. (BTW, this is on my ‘must have’ list, a man who is intuitive and enjoys talking about the human experience.)

    Men are just simpler about things, more straightforward–I admire and appreciate that and try to adopt that in my life. Women tend to complicate things, just the way we’re built.

    Having said that, I don’t know a many around that can’t be made happy with sex, food, sports (for the most part) and a pat on the back now and then. 🙂 So in that respect, they are ‘easy’.

    I LOVE win/win…ever since I’ve grown, relationships I have with men do not involve fighting, they involve negotiation to a win/win situation. If we can’t get to win/win, then that is not the right relationship for me. (I even had a date give me a clue in ADVANCE that we wouldn’t get to win/win and he wouldn’t make my ‘must have’ list–he told me there is a six month expiration on him opening the car door for me, OMG!)



  44.  #44janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:18 am

    love you being here too katarina!

    all of these differing points of view are expansive even when we don’t see things through the same lense.



  45.  #45Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 9:31 am

    I really love it when SG told me that when we were together he felt so masculine and so drawn to my femininity. (He is plenty masculine, alright, very tall and handsome)

    He said something, “the way you are just lying there, arch your body and let me please you (and let him know how good I feel) and have you…I feel like she’s my woman…at least for the moment.”

    He seems to be in touch with this yin yang thing, a superb middle ground that I yearn for after my last 2 relationships (a beta and alpha male). I don’t want to get ahead of myself but I find myself thinking about him all the time these days (it used to be my hubby 24/7). It’s odd that I don’t crave for my hubby as much anymore. If something develops after our weekend together, I know it’s not gonna be easy for me. 🙁

    Sigh….may the best guy win, as Rori said.



  46.  #46Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 9:36 am

    37: Katarina Phang

    Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate your explanation.

    39: Denise

    “Having said that, I don’t know a many around that can’t be made happy with sex, food, sports (for the most part) and a pat on the back now and then. So in that respect, they are ‘easy’.”

    Ah, now this is probably true. Men are probably more directly in touch with our basic needs than women are. Women are socialized to be overly concerned with other people’s needs in our society to the denial of their own needs. If a woman can be more in touch with her basic needs, she can become easy to be with too and make requests.



  47.  #47Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 9:39 am

    “the way you are just lying there, arch your body and let me please you …”

    I think the word he used was PLEASURE instead of “please.”



  48.  #48janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:42 am

    hi denise!

    “Having said that, I don’t know a many around that can’t be made happy with sex, food, sports (for the most part) and a pat on the back now and then. So in that respect, they are ‘easy’. ”

    oh girl!!! that sounds like such a putdown!!
    even though i don’t think you meant it that way!
    it’s just the way you see it., which i respect your point of view.

    however, i believe and *feel*/intuit that those are the men who have NOT been invited into a woman’s heart.
    …the men who we have really made the connection with (that want the connection too) are NOT just happy with those things.
    they want US too!!!

    yaaaay!!!

    i truly believe they want more than those things.

    oh yeh, i believe they are capable of loving us alot more deeply than we really believe they can!

    i believe opening ourselves to that part of them, acknowledging it, respecting it and wanting it, is part of the magic of “making the heart connection” rori speaks about.
    and i believe, that learning to make it possible for them to express and reveal that deeper part of themselves is an exciting adventure for both parties involved…
    more than sex even
    more than activities
    more than common interests

    i feel excited and happy about knowing/believing men want more connection and a deeper connection with us than i’ve ever been aware of before!



  49.  #49janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:44 am

    well, now i just read jason’s comment and see the other side of it…

    of women relaxing, not being so complicated and just enjoying themselves!

    that sounds good too!!!!

    i think we can do both!



  50.  #50Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 9:45 am

    life is too short:

    “Even if I don’t view myself as cheap, why would I want to be with a man who does? Does this make any sense?”

    Precisely, that has always been my philosophy. If a guy thinks I’m cheap because he got lucky/privileged to be intimate with me, it’s his problem. I don’t want a guy who is not self-aware like that anyway.

    I want a guy who puts his money where his mouth is.

    I make decisions mainly on what I think and how I feel, not what he or other people think/feel.



  51.  #51janjune on September 13, 2010 at 9:52 am

    yes, this is great.

    i want to do BOTH.

    have the capacity and the ability to enjoy making the connection and also have the ability to let the connection rest.

    this is great.

    i love the dynamics on this blog. growth. clarity. balance. seeing the big picture.



  52.  #52Denise on September 13, 2010 at 9:59 am

    #44

    Haha, I didn’t say that’s ALL they want. 😉 But bottom line, in my opinion, that’s what they need to be happy. If more women just recognized that, as agreed to by Jason BTW, they would get a lot more out of their men.

    Funny, I had a similar conversation with my 14 year old daughter. We were talking about what boys want–sex. She started to say about one of her friends who is a boy (and who likes her) that he’s not like that….I stopped her and said, ‘Oh, boys want MORE than just sex, they want friendship and love and affection. BUT, bottom line, that’s what they want. And that’s fine, that’s the way they are built, there’s nothing wrong with that. However, the situation has to be win/win. You have to get what you want/need so he can get what he wants/needs’.

    I think if you re-read my post, you’ll see that I am complimentary of men as a species in general.



  53.  #53Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 9:59 am

    44: janjune

    To be clear, most men will tell you they are driven by sex because our brains are soaking in testosterone all day. And indeed that is true. But what draws us to women in general is your feminine energy, your vibe, your presence. I’m dating a very feminine woman right now and I can tell you that all I want to do is dive into that energy. I want to merge with it. This is a larger experience than just connecting sexually. And because I’ve made the effort to learn how these dynamics work, I can appreciate it that much more deeply. But even if a man isn’t directly aware of these processes, I argue that he is swayed by them regardless. There is a distinction between just being a horny and actually being drawn to feminine women.



  54.  #54Denise on September 13, 2010 at 10:04 am

    #42

    Your contributions are invaluable here Jason, always great to get a man’s point of view.

    Agree with you on overfunctioning as Rori would say. I would also say that most women over analyze things, make up excuses and reasons for others and themselves, on and on and on. In many regards, TOO much on feelings (yikes, will probably get lambasted on here for that comment!). When I find myself doing that, I pull myself out and look at the ‘facts’, what are the actions that are happening, what are the results, what is the reality. To me, this is more like how a man reacts to things. It’s helped me to be a DIVA, to be strong, not needy and not weak. (What I have had to work on with my personality type is actually to connect MORE with my feelings. To be MORE feminine, and Rori has helped a ton in that area, very appreciative of that.)



  55.  #55Denise on September 13, 2010 at 10:09 am

    #49

    Oooo, that is really powerful Jason! I couldn’t agree more…that’s why when we have sex doesn’t really matter. It’s the femininity we have that draws them in. I would also say that it’s also our (women’s) ability to make a feel MASCULINE that really gets him hooked in.

    What’s really great is when truly understanding femininity and masculinity, it’s not about playing games, it’s about having fun with the human experience. A man making me feel feminine is so powerful, makes me passionate for myself, him and life. The same goes the other way. Isn’t that the bedrock of a healthy relationship? To make each other feel passionate in all ways?



  56.  #56life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 10:11 am

    .17 Jason Miller

    Great to have your male perspective here!

    J: I do believe that men can get hooked just as women can.

    L: absolutely

    J: Everyone is different in this regard and at different times in our lives.

    L: Yes, it depends on what issues are at play and how these issues ramp up or tone down the codependency factor. ALL relationships by their very nature, are co dependent, and that is not good or bad. It’s about getting out of muddy, destructive patterns which thwart happiness.

    I also believe that the challenges can get deeper and steeper until we finally “get it”.

    J: The classic scenario when the guy leaves after having sex once or a few times has to do with the guy not wanting a real relationship.

    L: I am glad to hear a man say this. It is a very simple statement, but it does show you are a conscious man. Many men do not take the time to examine their motivations and they are downright manipulative and deceptive in telling a woman what he thinks she wants to hear in order to get sex. I think some of them even believe their own lies, and that makes it difficult to engage in honest communication.

    J:Men who do want a real relationship will tend to get attached more easily. I know I’ve been in both places at different times in my life.

    So I go back to the original concept of screening men to see if they match your values and boundaries first before committing to a relationship, if that’s what you’re looking for. And sex is just one of the aspects of your values and boundaries.

    L: Brilliant and I fully agree. Do your due diligence.

    J: Men who are strongly wanting a steady relationship need to be careful too. We need to look before we leap and not overcommit when we haven’t had a chance to get to know the woman either.

    L: I very much like how you highlight the similarities between men and women as human beings. I am all about both the man and the woman being clear on creating meaningful, loving, mature relationship, where both are invested in serving each other and making not only their worlds a better place, but all those who come into contact with them.



  57.  #57Denise on September 13, 2010 at 10:27 am

    #52

    So I go back to the original concept of screening men to see if they match your values and boundaries first before committing to a relationship, if that’s what you’re looking for. And sex is just one of the aspects of your values and boundaries.

    Very well said…just because we go out on a date with someone does not mean that person is right for us in regard to a relationship. I also feel that most men are NOT right, and it takes some time (and some luck and positive thinking) to get to that man who has the high potential of being Mr. Right. This is all why CD’ing is such a good strategy.

    I really only know all this because I did date a man where everything was right (immediate and strong physical attraction, strong friendship and trust, similar beliefs and values). I have no idea if we would have made it long term, our life timing was off, but his purpose in my life was to show me how I want to feel in a committed relationship and how I wanted to be treated and what kind of man meshes with me.



  58.  #58janjune on September 13, 2010 at 10:31 am

    jason,
    #49–
    yes, thanks for explaining that more in depth…
    i see so much now after following rori’s work that what you said about how men feel is so true.
    i just love knowing it too!
    it helps so much hearing a man who feels trustworthy say it from his perspective.

    i feel so much more open to men since understanding of how much they want to connect with us too. not just sexually or intellectually but the (what i consider) *real* connection that takes you deeper into the heart.

    yet as you and denise pointed out there’s a time to give that a rest too… 🙂



  59.  #59Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Jason:

    “There is a distinction between just being a horny and actually being drawn to feminine women.”

    Yes…yes I second that. That’s exactly how I feel about SG. He loved the sex, obviously…couldn’t get enough of it, in fact, but the masculine-feminine polarity between us is so strong that he can’t resist but being so drawn completely.

    I’ve never been with a guy -in a long time- who had no problem referring me as his “Mrs” and with “if you are my wife” after one night together. That was insane. I know he was just playing but still….



  60.  #60janjune on September 13, 2010 at 10:51 am

    denise,

    thanks for your comments i feel appreciation for your point of view! and love thinking about just kicking back and not being complicated at times— men do seem to set the example for us to follow on that if we’re willing… that’s something i really do love about them and the difference in how they think! love ’em

    i know you wrote the following to jason:
    “What’s really great is when truly understanding femininity and masculinity, it’s not about playing games, it’s about having fun with the human experience. A man making me feel feminine is so powerful, makes me passionate for myself, him and life. The same goes the other way. Isn’t that the bedrock of a healthy relationship? To make each other feel passionate in all ways?”

    but i wanted to share with you that rori’s program is a little different than most—
    her take on it is we as women don’t have or let anyone *make* us feel anything!
    but that we go into the relationship *already* FEELING our femininity (meaning it’s not somethng a man gives us, we already have it—
    and it can’t be taken away–
    by a man coming
    or going
    or anything else he may choose to do!)
    we just *share* this part of ourselves with a man if we choose to be with him!
    by just Being — with no effort at all really —

    well, that’s the way i understand what rori is saying.
    anyway that has been very freeing for me and wanted to share it with you 🙂

    gotta go for now!



  61.  #61Denise on September 13, 2010 at 10:55 am

    @janjune

    You’re very cute! Your excitment is infectious, I could use a little of that right now. 🙂

    The only other thing I would say is it’s good for women to get very saavy at recognizing as soon as possible on how well that man will work in her life, i.e. the first date. That takes practice and really good listening skills, but it really isn’t that difficult.

    And I’m talking about decent good men, nothing inheritantly ‘wrong’ with the men, just not a match. Sometimes it’s obvious like grammar or physical attributes, sometimes it more tied to beliefs and values like Jason points out.

    What do you all think about that?



  62.  #62Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 11:02 am

    56: janjune

    You are right. Developing your own sense of femininity is not dependent on a man being around. But having a masculine man in your life adds CONTRAST and POLARITY and therefore more attraction and bonding in the context of a relationship. It kinda makes the world go round if you think about it.



  63.  #63Denise on September 13, 2010 at 11:05 am

    #56

    Yes, agreed, we need to come to a relationship as women as our best selves. However, in my opinion, being a relationship must ADD to our lives, not detract. They should ENHANCE.

    Does a woman not feel more feminine when a man holds open a door for her? That doesn’t take away from her natural feminity and confidence and Divaness (is that a word?!), but enhances her feminity.

    When a man has success with a woman, she’s happy and having sex with him, doesn’t that raise his masculinity? That doesn’t mean he wasn’t feeling masculine before hand, but the interaction raises his masculinity.

    Hopefully that explains more about what I meant! 🙂

    I’ll share these equations I learned from another coach which really make sense to me and explain a lot about how I feel and what area I might be lacking in:

    masculinity = success w/ women + progress in mission

    femininity = obtaining resources from men (time, attention, affection, humor, labor, money) + purpose greater than self

    When both sides of these equations are being met, that makes us feel more passionate about ourselves, other people and life.



  64.  #64tinque on September 13, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Denise – I think it still comes down to a strong chemical attraction, like I was mentioning on the last thread, the scent behind his ears for me as an example.
    In my experience, all the important men had this smell in that spot that just SO turned me on, BUT when we were done, that smell suddenly turned me off.
    Yes there are other factors to consider, but if there isn’t some sort of unexplainable attraction between you both, and it has to be from BOTH, then there really is nothing more to talk about or rationalize about.
    xxoo



  65.  #65Denise on September 13, 2010 at 11:10 am

    #58

    I agree Jason…

    I would also add that the formulas I gave in my Post #59 apply to ALL facets of life. Many times/sometimes as women, we don’t have a serious or steady relationship that we’re in. But that doesn’t mean we can’t raise our femininity ourselves by being conscious and aware of obtaining resources from everyday men, for example, when a man holds the door for a woman, or when he assists her somehow. It’s a matter of making sure we pay attention to those instances, to help ourselves. Also gives us real life examples to counteract any negative beliefs we may have–I’m not attractive, I don’t deserve a man’s attention, I’ll never have a man’s attention.



  66.  #66Denise on September 13, 2010 at 11:16 am

    #60

    Totally agree Tinque! There is the first stage of courtship which is physical attraction, that chemistry thing. Although a relationship may progress, if that strong chemistry is not there, the relationship will not be successful–ends up being a roommate situation long term. Chemistry is unexplainable…your comment about smell makes me chuckle! I’m a big smell person, especially men’s cologne. 🙂

    Three steps of courtship:

    Physical Attraction
    Friendship
    Commitment (beliefs and values)

    It’s like a 3 legged stool, if one of these is missing, the relationship will not be a strong one. I was reading posts where the women were saying they were dating a man that was just terrific, they loved them as a friend (friendship and probably commitment factors were there), but they weren’t physically attracted. They beat themselves up about that, and I can see why! Unfortunately though if that’s not there, that’s not there.



  67.  #67Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Today’s message from Rori, makes mention of the man needs us feminine to experience feeling (that is my edited view) and Jason seems to be on the same track.

    As an interesting note of an experience I had last year, this really makes huge sense to me – like the penny dropped. I had had a few dates with a man who dropped dead playing a sport and was brought back to life because the place had a de-fib. and one of the guys on the team was an EMS. My man was 49 at the time. I met him 6 weeks after the heart attack. Over the course of our dates, he focused with an incredible intensity on his need to feel life. He was constantly demanding to know what I felt. At first I found it odd, and then incredibly difficult and not just because of his intense need, but because I could not answer him – I was so incredibly out of touch with my own feelings that I simply could not meet this need.

    More recently I met Family Guy – another one with a bit of trauma in his life. But I am far more aware of the feeling mode now, my feminine energy and I had had a note from him talking about how exhilarated he felt and how stressed he felt on several different occasions. I would previously never have “heard” this from a romantic partner. I am taking this as a good sign.

    It is now making huge sense to me how important my feminine energy is. I am finding this thread incredibly valuable.



  68.  #68Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 11:23 am

    61: Denise

    You are making the overall point that we all have in us masculine and feminine energy. The key is consciously using which energy at which time to get the results you want.



  69.  #69life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 11:25 am

    61. very nice, Denise!

    I feel SO good when I allow any man, in any day to day scenario, to appreciate me, in the way he looks at me, talks to me, behaves towards me. It simply validates in a very real way what I know to be true. When I receive it graciously and without trying too hard to reciprocate or any thing, and just being with it, it allows him to feel good too.

    The more we practice this, the stronger it gets, until it becomes a habit we never even think about,
    and even under challenging relationship circumstances, it becomes the default position.

    I have a current situation with a man that is very challenging, but so fantastic in that it is truly testing my ability to be firm in my values and boundaries, my ability to not attach to outcome, my ability not to stuff or dismiss feelings, while at the same time doing the right and compassionate thing for both of us.



  70.  #70Turtle Girl on September 13, 2010 at 11:25 am

    All this talk of sex is just so great! But I am sadly frustrated right now. Up until toxic man I never had any problems being a sexual diva. He was my one oddball man experience. (Narcissist) I am back to being myself these days and that feels really good. Sex for pleasure and not caring about outcome….and well thats the problem…….

    The guy I am seeing now for about 4 months (He is fun, compatible, kind, says he loves me, drops hints about living together, etc….says he wants to marry again and loves domestic stuff) is lacking in the sex department……He can bring me to the big O to be sure, bluntly put he is a good fu** but a horrible lover. Virtually no foreplay, no intensity, no romance, nothing but get it wet and stick it in. I am becoming bored with him and part of me resents having to “fix or train a man”. I am in my 50’s and he is a bit younger and works just fine. How do you tell a guy he sucks as a lover? He has even said he was always selfish all about the fu** and not any experience in pleasing women. *sigh* I am bored and feel bad this is happening.

    In every other way we get on great. But this is a big deal. I find sadly that a lot of men suck as lovers. I want to be ravished, adored and played with….not just fuched. Ugh…feel angry and frustrated…feel not knowing what to do….do I dump him? Move on to a man who I am cd’ing who I can tell will be a good lover but I have reservations because he is separated (not living with her) but in divorce process. We have dated but no sex yet because I won’t allow it. I fell uncomfortable him being married….don’t want to be the rebound girl……….arrrkkkk…sometimes this stuff just is crazy and weird…..



  71.  #71Denise on September 13, 2010 at 11:29 am

    #64

    Well yes, but I do believe Rori says to ensure if you’re in a relationship who is going to be what energy predominantly.

    I think the formulas show that men and women are DIFFERENT in regard to what raises our masculinity (men) and femininity (women). For example, getting a man’s to help me with a project around the house raises my femininity. Me simply helping him with the same project isn’t going to raise his masculinity. (The ideal situation there is he helps me by giving me his labor, which raises my passion for him and makes me happy and want to have sex with him, making him successful with women, and then he gets sex, nice circle! 🙂

    As men and women, we’re equal, but different.



  72.  #72life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 11:40 am

    67. Yes. For example, I have a contractor working for me in my home doing some renovations. Really superior work, too. I wasn’t interacting very much with him, and I noticed that even when he arrived in the morning and I cheerfully bid him good morning, he would immediately start complaining a lot about the heat, the stairs, etc. I wondered why he was doing that.

    Until that one morning when he arrived, and I said, in a sincere and playful way, wink wink kind of way,
    “Good morning, honey” That immediately shifted the energy 180 degrees, broke the ice, and it’s been very pleasant here, more interaction, tension free, natural and amusing between us ever since. He is a gentleman. i do catch him checking me out some times. I do feel he’s a little intimidated by me, but he is relaxing more now.

    I’m not really attracted to him as a potential mate or anything, but, as Rori says, all interactions with men can be seen as therapy!



  73.  #73life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 11:51 am

    66. Turtle Girl,

    Do you think you might consider just telling him what you want? It is exciting to them, and they love it when we are confident and secure enough to tell them what we want, and making this part of the foreplay can contribute and intensify the overall sexual experience for both of you.

    It doesn’t necessarily need to be looked at as fixing and training, but as discovery and exploration.



  74.  #74Daria on September 13, 2010 at 11:51 am

    i think that as Rori teaches attraction can develop by opening up intimacy.

    for me, in a situation similar to girl’s … i wasn’t opening up intimacy because i was not sharing my feelings… of anger, guilt, frustration, turned off ness… in a way that put the man in the masculine role

    i think that my attraction, or lack of, was based on that…

    for example, not wanting sex is (like rori says about men) probably because i was actually angry but not in touch with that… i was on the other side of the coin at guilt…

    since i don’t feel safe communicating anger, he wouldn’t be inspired to either, causing even more disconnect/

    .igh

    i just got the image of a man who did not turn me on in person… with him it was a smell thing and a way his skin looked, grimy… mmm i dont know about this but i STILL think its about honesty and intimacy



  75.  #75Amy F. on September 13, 2010 at 11:54 am

    I made a huge mistake.

    I knew better than to agree to exclusivity. However PD-man was in hot pursuit, adored me, we were totally connected and madly in love. Yet, a month after I agreed to be exclusive (I don’t really want marriage, but to be connected with lives intertwined) the withdrawl started. I feel so dumb!

    I used feeling messages to communicate “I feel disconnected and don’t want to feel disconnected in an exclusive relationship. I am giving you the space you need and and you cannot have me all to yourself as you decide what to do.” He moved closer at first and now he has withdrawn again.

    I feel like I’ve slammed into a brick wall, my heart is in pieces. Yet, I have totally leaned back, have not chased him and allowed the radio silence. I am CDing: I have a date on Wednesday and one on Friday night (with a totally hot, nice, adorable man), yet I just want to crawl into a hole. I know I would feel worse if I had chased after him, so I’m grateful and proud of myself.



  76.  #76Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Hi, everyone! @ Jason – yeah, men should BE easy….and if you’ll read girl’s story with all the power struggles and subtext and messages from her man…..that’s what I’m saying shouldn’t be there. You get triggered easily about male energy – just saying. For myself, I was kind of joking, but reading girl’s story makes it very real. And yes we are all complex and have both kinds of energy, etc. But – and this is not something you have direct experience of – as a woman, there is always this subtext, eg. girl’s interactions/conversations with man, post right above about carpenter guy, etc.

    IF we get our way by being feminine or BECAUSE feminine is more palatable to the “male,” that’s just as messed up as men not being easy.

    We start as humans, but our ground of being includes our orientation as male or female. And you make a very big distinction on/in that when you say, dress/appear feminine.

    But if the feminine wants a man who is not playing men mind games, she is dissing on men?

    That’s not what I thought we were saying. And you know, I noticed you use a very sharp and direct voice on here and no one calls you on it – you are allowed to talk BOY because you are one. I talk BOY and get into 100 comment conflicts.

    So, one can take away all distinctions from their speech and yet, the distinctions will still exist.

    That said, hooray to you for sticking with us and being here.

    I would be curious as to what you think of as your feminine voice or side?

    Because I’m totally pissed that you get to be tell it like it is and HEY! don’t do this….and I don’t.

    What do you think?

    Jacqueline



  77.  #77Denise on September 13, 2010 at 11:55 am

    #68

    Wow, that’s a great example Life! Awesome observations on your part…



  78.  #78Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Turtle girl, I feel your frustration and I have been in your shoes throughout my marriage (sex only gets better -in fact crazy good- after we broke up, ironically). That made me very unhappy.

    It’s a red flag. You can’t go on feeling resentful, unappreciated and neglected without blowing up one way or another one day. You have to bring it up to him that you feel unfulfilled in sex department. The way he does it makes you feel unappreciated as a woman.

    You want to be ravished, adored, worshipped (SG just lovesssss doing all of this, in fact he said my satisfaction was more important than his) and it’s important for you to feel that way if your relationship is going to have a chance surviving at all.

    Don’t settle, especially not on something as important as sex. Keep dating and looking for that special someone who just knows instinctively what you want and need as a woman. It happened to me when I least expected it and I am savoring every minute of it now. 🙂



  79.  #79Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 11:57 am

    ps…using energy to get what you want? and it just sails right on by. I bet if I said that it’d get challenged. Again, just noticing the distinction of what is allowed in man voice.

    So, you wanna have a feelings script talk?

    J



  80.  #80Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Jason-

    “But what draws us to women in general is your feminine energy, your vibe, your presence. I’m dating a very feminine woman right now and I can tell you that all I want to do is dive into that energy. I want to merge with it. This is a larger experience than just connecting sexually.”

    Would you mind describing specifically what makes the woman you are dating “a very feminine woman”?

    “….all I want to do is dive into that energy.”

    I love that. I want to be able to inspire that in the right men.

    Oh, as I write this, I am realizing that I DO inspire that in many many men — but not the one I want. 🙁

    Why is that?

    Does that mean I am already feminine enough — but for some OTHER reason this guy doesn’t want to “dive into that energy”???

    I want to inspire him the way your woman inspires you.



  81.  #81Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    @ Katarina – hey! You know the more I thought about you and how much admiration I feel for you, what I’d most like to write about is YOU….like how it feels for you to be that “woman of tomorrow,” young sucessful blogging/websiting, etc. How and where did that goal/dream come from and how did you open yourself to limitless options, etc. That would be eye opening and inspiring. My goal is to give all women an opening to always be looking and waiting for that next great thing that’s going to bring them all sorts of happiness….no matter where they are in their bucket list – and if the bucket is empty go give them something to put in it!

    What do you think??

    Happy Monday!
    J



  82.  #82Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    That is so interesting Jacqueline, I am solidly in my masculine side as I am not experiencing the same vibe as you are with Jason’s comments. Maybe because I am in a very strong masculine work side of myself today and just rapidly crossing thing off my deliverables list. I am going to re-read his posts tonight to see if I feel a difference.



  83.  #83Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Hey, Lizzie – yep, reread them as I have just done. He speaks in a way that no one would not call me out on on here, and it’s totally uncommented on – no even validated. Not equalized, like if his opinion is MORE valid than say, Katarina’s or Tinque’s.

    I know that’s not the focus of the posts, and I actually love that Jason brings clarity and insight. I do experience a frustration in that I cannot hear where EXACTLY he stands – one minute we are to be feminine to the point of dressing that way! and another we are both male and female.

    So, while I love his voice, I often feel frustrated that I’m not getting to see HIM; as if his comments come from a shifting ground of being? if that makes sense.

    Have a great crossing off day!

    hugs,
    j



  84.  #84Denise on September 13, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    #66

    Turtle girl, you already know this, but this is not a good sign.

    I think it ends up being a decision on your part whether you want to expend your energy and time on ‘educating’ him, or if you feel it might be better to cut the ties now.

    What I would say, however, is perhaps there are probably other signs of ‘seflishness’ in the relationship (can’t believe he said out loud he was a lousy lover, yikes!). Have you said No to him yet about something? Great test for a man to see how he reacts…you’ll be shocked to see what you can learn.

    One of the other things on my ‘must have’ list is the man must be CURIOUS. Curious about life, curious about what makes me happy and tick, curious about what I think and how I feel about things.



  85.  #85life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    .71 Jacqueline
    “IF we get our way by being feminine or BECAUSE feminine is more palatable to the “male,” that’s just as messed up as men not being easy.”

    But isn’t that what Rori’s programs are all about?

    Having the relationship you want by kind of returning to the natural order of things vis a vis how the masculine and feminine energies are implemented most effectively?

    Eventually, mature partners get to negotiate masculine and feminine energies and who plays what in different roles and areas of their relationship.



  86.  #86Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Jacq, sweetheart, don’t get me too big-headed or I will have a problem to take my dress off for my new beau when we meet again LOL… But thanks, it’s very flattering coming from you.

    That sounds great, I will email you later today or you can email me at gettheloveyoudeserve@gmail.com.

    I’m updating my blog right now, writing this amazing experience I’ve been going through.



  87.  #87Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    play golf with your man – OH WOW! will you ever find out stuff quickly…
    – how controling
    – how much he tells you what to do
    – how much he corrects you
    – how he handles when you make a better shot than he does
    – how he handles his own really bad shot
    – how frustrated he gets
    – how supportive he is
    – how honest he is
    – how gracious he is

    OH do I ever love golf!



  88.  #88Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    And Jacq, I’m actually not that young -at least not as young as my pictures might indicate: it’s the youth potion #9 I take ;). I’m, in fact, perhaps a tad older than you.



  89.  #89Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    no way, darling K!!! I simply LOOK 20 years younger – and no the pix aren’t from 20 years ago. lol…

    still I get the feeling you are living your dream and it feels good!!!

    talk soon,
    J



  90.  #90Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Life…..I simply AM feminine, no matter who hears my voice any differently.. It is my ground of being, I cannot hear/feel this distinction because I am like a fish in water. I AM a woman, I feel like a woman (I break just like a little girl? bob dylan)….

    so I get it as a learning tool but I think masc/fem doesn’t assume a role, it just plays out as in who does what best.

    thanks!
    J



  91.  #91life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    J

    You are welcome!

    And YES! to your amazing affirmation!!!!
    I’m going to use it too!

    and smiles



  92.  #92Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    For example Jonathon wrote me and asked what I thought about his article. Then he thanked me for reaching out to him….but he wrote me? which was very weird for my feminine side…

    but he asked my input – so I told him that woman of yesterday felt kind of like day old bread and no one wants to be that, do they?

    then it kind of devolved into the same kind of impasse I get to with Jason – he asked my opinion, I didn’t feminize it, I just gave it as it was work related…and then the energy felt awful… Kind of like with the carpenter story.

    I will not speak femininely to be heard – I will speak my feelings and I am feminine, and how anyone hears me is kind of through their filters, yes?

    Still, tho, it is good to be able to speak and be heard in a non threatening way – it’s what I’m here to learn. It just feels like a lot of work to change a lifetime of speaking as ME to speaking as GIRL. for me, lol!

    Smiles and off for now….

    J



  93.  #93tinque on September 13, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I’m with Katarina here. I have said this before, and I will keep saying it. Men get the MOST pleasure from pleasing us. I’m talking sex here. The more turned on we become, the more turned on they become.
    They take great enjoyment in ravishing us.
    xxoo



  94.  #94Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    thanks, life2short!! smiles 2!



  95.  #95tinque on September 13, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Lizzie – How interesting your golfing experience was as compared to mine.
    First there was no score keeping.
    Second, if I was falling behind, I was welcome to pick up my ball and put it closer to everyone else’s.
    Third, if the ball went into the forest, I could go get it, IF I could find it. Otherwise I got a new one.
    That’s the way to play golf.
    Oh and lastly, we laughed A LOT.
    xxoo



  96.  #96Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Tinque, it’s true men want us to have an earth shattering and go gaga over their manhood, even when some of them are just lazy and won’t do the work (like my hubby when we were married).

    Some/many of them, sadly, just kinda expected we could do this by ourselves without them having to lift a finger -simply just by them being there, almost.

    These men are clueless. I don’t think it’s wise to invest too much emotionally in men like this. They may not be very teachable either (and yes, like we have all the time in the world for crash course in how stimulating a woman).

    From now on, if the sex ain’t good after a few tries…I’m out of here, baby. Life is too short.



  97.  #97Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    I meant to say “earth-shattering orgasm” above.



  98.  #98Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    I feel intrigued by what is being said about Jason’s voice.

    I love his voice being masculine, because I respond to it with my feminine energy (since he is a MAN) — I am receptive and open and joyful and non-analytical. It automatically causes me to lean back.

    If a WOMAN is using masculine voice on here, I tend to “hear” her with my OWN masculine energy (since we are both women), and thus go into analytical mode and will critique and evaluate what she says — because that is what she seems to be inviting when, as a woman, she uses masculine energy — which is why Rori says our masculine enrgy works great for work and accomplishing things out in the world.

    So, when I evaluate and critique what a woman says on here in masculine energy, sometimes I will AGREE with what she is saying and find it useful and helpful. Other times, I will DISAGREE and find it unhelpful and possibly even destructive.

    However, when a woman uses feminine voice on here, that dynamic does not come into play.

    So, it’s fine for a woman to use whatever voice she wants to on here — but the fact is, she WILL get different responses to different voices. Some women on here who use masculine voice a lot (many coaches, for example), seem to understand this and are internally prepared for it — AND, more importantly, have learned to effectively communicate genuine compassion and understanding (without being condescending) while still using their boy voice.

    Does that make sense?



  99.  #99Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    “From now on, if the sex ain’t good after a few tries…I’m out of here, baby. Life is too short.”

    And on this premise, I just can’t imagine or approve holding off sex only after marriage. That’s WAY too risky. You will only put yourself in some very precarious position later on. But that’s my opinion.



  100.  #100life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Katarina, I just want to say, thanks so much for sharing here your attitudes about sex. It’s really helping me, because I am such a sexual being, and love to play, but have a bit of residual family of origin guilt/shame
    stuff to overcome.

    Yes!

    Life is too short!



  101.  #101Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Jacqueline,

    Jonathon wrote me and asked the same thing. I don’t understand why that would feel weird for your feminine side….? I gave him my honest feedback — in my own normal voice — and I did not experience any impasse or “awful energy.” It felt good! And fun.

    I feel curious about that.



  102.  #102Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Life is too short, you’re very welcome. And I understand this guilt/shame thing. It’s very common in all cultures in various degrees, eastern or western.

    Sex has always been associated with shame when it comes to female sexuality. Sad but true. Lucky, I wasn’t brought up that way -or for some reason I developed natural immunity against this puritan culture I grew up in.

    That is the “rare” feminine magnetism that works in drawing men in with me.



  103.  #103Brenda on September 13, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Jacqueline,

    RE: #85 – “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” ~ Bob Dylan



  104.  #104tinque on September 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    “I just can’t imagine or approve holding off sex only after marriage.”

    I can imagine it, and it doesn’t feel good at all. Many women here on this blog disagree with this for them, and that’s good, for them.
    It has never felt right for me.
    Sex is a part of the entire package that is ME, HIM, and US as a couple.
    I don’t advocate keeping our feefees so “sacred” that they “shouldn’t” be penetrated until there is a ring or some other form of commitment.
    There are no guarantees. Not in marriage either.
    Yet some women have managed this successfully.
    xxoo



  105.  #105Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    71: Jacqueline says:

    Jacqueline, I apologize in advance for parsing your conversation because I know you don’t like that, but you raise many points and questions in one post and I need to address them individually.

    Let me start by stating my opinion that your posts to me come across as a solidly feminine voice. Again, that is my opinion. I do not pretend that what I post here is the absolute truth, and in fact, if anyone disagrees or is triggered by what I say, I’m perfectly fine with it. I can’t be all things to all people. And I always welcome your feedback, Jacqueline, because you trigger me in many ways too. I really do appreciate your perspective.

    “You get triggered easily about male energy – just saying.”

    Yeah, in conversations I may have been triggered around that topic before. Just don’t know what particular thing you’re referring to.

    “IF we get our way by being feminine or BECAUSE feminine is more palatable to the “male,” that’s just as messed up as men not being easy.”

    Agreed. Do not MAKE yourself feminine for anyone. Just LOVE your own femininity and that will SHOW THROUGH! That’s what I mean by expressing feminine energy and in turn attracting men.

    “We start as humans, but our ground of being includes our orientation as male or female. And you make a very big distinction on/in that when you say, dress/appear feminine.”

    Well, in the context of those first few dates, in my personal experience, I have been turned off by women who don’t show femininity in their physical appearance. I know that men in general appreciate the basics of female beauty and that includes makeup, dresses, and heels sometimes. It doesn’t mean you have to force yourself to conform to conventional fashion trends, but it does mean you have to find a way to express your femininity in a demonstrable physical way in the world if you want men’s attention.

    “But if the feminine wants a man who is not playing men mind games, she is dissing on men?

    That’s not what I thought we were saying.”

    It’s not what I’m saying. None of this is mind games. What I preach is that women who are interested in using their natural feminine energy to attract a man need only express that energy in a congruent, positive way. That is what attracts men.

    “And you know, I noticed you use a very sharp and direct voice on here and no one calls you on it – you are allowed to talk BOY because you are one. I talk BOY and get into 100 comment conflicts.

    So, one can take away all distinctions from their speech and yet, the distinctions will still exist.

    Because I’m totally pissed that you get to be tell it like it is and HEY! don’t do this….and I don’t.”

    I do know what you’re getting at and I completely understand how that is frustrating for you. But I’m going to introduce to you a radical idea. If you want to use your masculine voice effectively as a woman, you must be congruent in that voice and in your masculine energy. You must feel as in touch with it as you are with your feminine side. And then you will have the wonderful power to exercise your masculine energy at will as well as your feminine. That is really the ultimate goal for all of us as men and women. We are literally redesigning ourselves in terms of this polarity. We are gaining consciousness around this and getting triggered less.

    “That said, hooray to you for sticking with us and being here.”

    Thank you.”

    Thank you and you’re welcome!

    “I would be curious as to what you think of as your feminine voice or side?”

    Indeed, you are asking the opposite of what I just explained. So for me, the feminine side is that nurturing, caring energy that sometimes comes along with letting someone else take the lead in a situation. It happens for me when I take more of a responsive approach in a situation or interaction. And often when I’m feeling needy, I’ll start to rely more on feminine energy, which for me presents issues in my romantic relationships sometimes.

    Let me know if all that helps or not.



  106.  #106tinque on September 13, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Guilt is a destructive emotion.
    Regret, remorse, okay, for these can be let go of readily. Guilt hangs on like the albatross.
    xxoo



  107.  #107Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    @ Lucy – yeah but did you tell him something he didn’t want to hear? Because to my comment, he said he wanted to “explain” the story – so it led (in my mind….) to he didn’t want to really get my critique….he wanted to convince me of his point of view. And the communication got mixed up because he approached me, and then said I’d approached him which – due to being on here and def. leaning back – I had a reaction to.

    If Jason can speak in both masc. and fem. voice without being judged for either, we all should, my POV…and I stand by his words are weighted more heavily than anything we stay to each other as authentically MALE – when by his own statement he is both masc/fem and therefore should not be interpreted differently.

    And….about a 12 page letter dropping limiting beliefs? Uh, no…not in the strictest definition/sense, since a limiting belief is an unconcious one tied to our complete childhood/upbringing and every story we’ve ever told ourselves. But in general, people can and do drop/confront/move past limiting beliefs because of innocuous things…like a butterfly landed on their shoulder, or they felt a presence….it doesn’t always have to be about the work. Not that the work is not A way to get there, it can be about a ground of being a state of receiptivity or a belief in miracles…or a willingness to be willing….

    when I speak I am inviting conversation, discourse, and exchange of ideas unless I ask for critical feedback – which I have regarding the blog and got none. I certainly get a lot of it on my voice, tho…

    grinning….
    J



  108.  #108Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    @ Jason….love it!!! and cut and past isn’t bad per se, it was just confusing….see, that’s where I think I AM….I express myself, I am feminine and ergo, voila! it should be heard as feminine. The distinction I’m still working with…
    and btw….feeling messages are not synonomous with feminine.
    and btw….I had a big urge to email you to like “warn” you in advance…now is that cuz you’re male or cuz I don’t speak right per se??

    And just in general, thank you for giving me the space to work out these concepts and in particular to work them out with you!!!

    Hugs,
    Jacqueline



  109.  #109Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Jason…and you know? sometime you are totally a laser!! genius!

    A lot of times I just hear words…but this I hear at a whole new level – because I deem it profound!

    So, thanks again and you are profound….smile…

    But I’m going to introduce to you a radical idea. If you want to use your masculine voice effectively as a woman, you must be congruent in that voice and in your masculine energy. You must feel as in touch with it as you are with your feminine side. And then you will have the wonderful power to exercise your masculine energy at will as well as your feminine. That is really the ultimate goal for all of us as men and women. We are literally redesigning ourselves in terms of this polarity. We are gaining consciousness around this and getting triggered less.



  110.  #110Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    102: Jacqueline

    I’m so fascinated by where this is going. I have a real world example of this.

    Coincidentally, I have one client I’m working with who wants to work on her masculine energy. This is actually my coaching her to unblock her own masculine side and use it for being more effective in business and working with other men and women using their masculine energy. This is what I mean by developing congruency. Congruency means you can be totally comfortable and unapologetic about either your masculine or feminine sides as a man or a woman. It really is at the core an energetic vibe phenomenon.

    Jacqueline, I encourage you to try on this metaphor even more now because there is an opportunity for you to be even more effective with your own voice, whether it comes from your masculine side, feminine side, or a blend of both! The better we can grasp these concepts, the better empowered all of us will be for it! You are free to choose whatever combination you want at any time.



  111.  #111Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    ps…I think that work – eft, reiki, bodywork etc works but the best way to drop a limiting belief?

    would be to suspend disbelief!



  112.  #112Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    @ Jason – that is IT!! I need a male voice that works – I spent my whole life being the boss of men – maintenance men, etc….tennents….the guy usually comes in to get in your face….and it doesn’t work when I am not the “boss.” I developed it to survive in a job that required me to be very very tough and in your face but it no longer serves me. And really never did outside of that work situation – how many boyfriends have said to me, I’m not your maintenance man??? And that’s what I’m here for…rofl…the absurdity….of it, but yeah, I need a male voice that is not shrill, bossy or non allowing of someone elses views.

    In my defense, 20 years of being the owner’s direct representative over people who thought they owned! their apartments…I had to kick doors in sometimes, or get the kid to open it and just step inside and wait for the non payer to get out of bed, etc…..eviction if a hard, hard process; as is a job where basically people thought my job was just to listen to them yell at me…..very conflict ridden environment.

    whereas massage I was sooooooo good at – made great money, got huge tips, created a safe soothing and nurturing atmosphere and had some miraculous results.

    But it wasn’t as fun as being the boss and yelling…well, it wasn’t stimultating. Or adrenaline filled….

    ‘kay, now I really am gonna go workout and thanks!



  113.  #113life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Jacqueline,
    I am glad you mentioned the contractor experience that i wrote about. I wanted to clarify a bit, because from your comments, I’m not sure I made the context all that clear.

    I had commented to the friend who referred him to me that he was acting like a husband might who was complaining about all the “honey do” work he was having to do, when in fact, I am paying the guy handsomely and he knew what he was getting into, so why doesnt he just do the work and don’t expect me to entertain him.

    You spoke about “subtext”. Yes, in the sense that apparently, he was wanting some kind of attention from me.

    My “Good Morning Honey” comment was meant to address, in a non-confrontational way, that he was acting like a disgruntled husband might, not for me to use my femininity.

    I went on to tell him that he knew what the job was before he took it.

    I think he realized that I called him on it, because his attitude changed after that.

    Subsequently, we relaxed into him giving and me receiving.

    having fun, but time to get a move on….

    Life is too short



  114.  #114Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    107: Jacqueline

    Thank you, Jacqueline. I feel like we just and a meeting of the minds. You make my heart sing because it all reaffirms that working with individuals on all of this stuff is my life’s work. I’m so happy you are seeing opportunities open up for yourself.



  115.  #115Vulpine on September 13, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Tinque, #60, TOTALLY agree about “that perfect smell”. My husband had that smell when we were courting and I could nuzzle into his neck (just skin smell, not cologne) and simply bliss out. When it went south, the magic scent was gone.

    I think the clenching up and freaking out that happens after we start having sex is because we’re looking for the validation that yes, we are amazing and yes, of he’s enthralled. And I’m learning now that confirmation cannot come from outside of me and I can’t expect if I give a man sex, he will give me that in return. I have to know it internally and release my attachment to any particular outcome. But then the ego gets involved and wants to hear it “OMG I can’t live without you!”

    This is a great thread and as I’m CDing but not getting intimate with anyone. This is giving me a lot to think about.



  116.  #116Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Haven’t caught up here yet, but I want to say, Tinque, that I always appreciate the way you honor viewpoints different from your own, as in this: “Yet some women have managed this successfully.” <3



  117.  #117Turtle Girl on September 13, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Thank you Katrina and Denise for your input.

    Something to ponder……..no it’s not a good sign….
    And yes, he has showed some selfishness in other areas.

    Life is to short to: You have a point as well…Rori teaches this kind of thing. Say something like ” It would feel really wonderful if you did ____.” ‘___ really turns me on”.

    I guess really it comes down to do I want to spend my time and energy teaching him want works. I have had many lovers in the past, been married before, etc etc. Often times the really good lovers are not all that good men out of the sack. The ones who are good men out of the sack seem to suck in the sack.
    I wish this were not so. This has been my experience. I want both. A good decent man, and a good lover. Is that too much to ask? That guy Johnathan that was on the other post said something about how he thought that the best marriages were between good friends, not the best lover? Really? Wow……

    Tinque seems to have found both. I have a good friend that has both.

    It feels like settling. This guy I have is a great friend. A good man. Lots of good stuff, but sex is really too important to make light of it.



  118.  #118tinque on September 13, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Vulpine – One of the “tricks” is, especially with a not so vocal man which many are not, to hear him saying OMG I can’t live without you without him saying anything at all. You hear it in how he looks at you, treats you, takes care of you, cherishes and adores you, sexually and every other way.
    This was a huge lesson for me.
    xxoo



  119.  #119tinque on September 13, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Turtle Girl – I’m glad you brought this up. I meant to and forgot by the time I got to the end of the for me long list of comments.

    “he [Jonathon] thought that the best marriages were between good friends, not the best lover”

    I have to disagree with this. You are absolutely right; you CAN have both. I know first hand, or maybe it’s second hand, that I’m not alone in having a very good friend as an awesome lover.
    xxoo



  120.  #120Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    OMG! Turtle girl, I agree ….they play on the great lover thing the way I could play on being a blonde??? But I think a lot of men self taught using porn…and can be retrained. What do you think?



  121.  #121Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    “And often when I’m feeling needy, I’ll start to rely more on feminine energy, which for me presents issues in my romantic relationships sometimes.” (Jason)

    VERY interesting! That explains a lot about some of the men I have encountered in dating! Hmmm…..



  122.  #122Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    I CD’d over the weekend, a few times actually. I went out of town and met someone, and I also had a friend there who was picking me up to meet a CD with me, but ended up swooping in and stealing his magic. Then I had two CDs the next night but I FELL ASLEEP for a looong time, and so I dated my pillow that night instead.

    i love the confident feeling that even if your primary love interest doesn’t work out, there are so many other men out there just dying to take you out!



  123.  #123Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    High five, Jason!!!!

    and I”m kind of wondering about it being “masculine,” vs. just logical – I mean maint. men are pretty much about shorting the work and my job was to tell em how to do it and the cheapest way to boot…

    but at home for ex. my guy plants sod….it barely takes hold….then he goes to build the sunroom and covers all the dang grass up with his “pile” of boards, etc – even plywood….so the grass withers, but his focus is now on the room all the work on the grass is forgotten…and men love their piles. So now I’m loving the room but yelling about get the pile off the dang grass so I can water it, ya know?

    Yeah, yeah, I KNOW you’ve got piles, it’s physically impossible for a man not to have ’em…piles of boards, piles of receipts, piles of change…I dunno…just piles! I hate piles!!! I don’t hate men tho….rofll…..

    laser vs. disco ball??? ha ha…or man focus vs. multitask female focus?

    Thanks!
    Jacqueline



  124.  #124Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I would love to know what you girls consider makes a “good lover” in a man? and what makes him not so good?

    i’m on lover #2 in my life, and i am feeling so curious, and still learning



  125.  #125Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “And….about a 12 page letter dropping limiting beliefs? Uh, no”

    That right there sounds like a limiting belief. 🙂

    And, since I don’t have a limiting belief about the ability of 12 page letters to erase my limiting beliefs, voila! a 12 page letter could easily do it for me. 🙂 And maybe that was the case with the person who experienced it, too.

    I feel excited about that kind of possibility actually!



  126.  #126Denise on September 13, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    #82

    Lizzie, EXCELLENT suggestion!

    I went bowling with a date recently that told me a lot about him…let’s just say I was not too excited to go golfing with him! 🙂



  127.  #127Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Might sound like one, Lucy, but in the way Erika and EFT people are talking about it it isn’t. In common vernacular tho, right on!

    @ Dorothea – I’ll tell….ha! I even managed somehow to email someone how to teach him to kiss lessons yesterday…har….but not here.

    Really, tho, Tinque has said all there is to say, the rest is just logistics!



  128.  #128Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Re: Jonathon…. “so it led (in my mind….) to he didn’t want to really get my critique”

    So, you told yourself a “story” in your mind, and that colored and changed your interactions with him.

    “but did you tell him something he didn’t want to hear?”

    I have no idea! I just told him the truth with no attachment to the outcome, we talked a bit, and it felt good.



  129.  #129Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Why not here? I don’t understand.



  130.  #130Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    “Might sound like one, Lucy, but in the way Erika and EFT people are talking about it it isn’t.”

    I respectfully disagree. A limiting belief is a limiting belief is a limiting belief.



  131.  #131Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Tinque:

    “Sex is a part of the entire package that is ME, HIM, and US as a couple.
    I don’t advocate keeping our feefees so “sacred” that they “shouldn’t” be penetrated until there is a ring or some other form of commitment.
    There are no guarantees. Not in marriage either.”

    YES…YES…YES!!! Very well put. And unless the men share the same values as you -and sure they have to to agree to this arrangement-, it feels like a helluva pressure on them and it feels like they are only useful as a “commitment machine” disregarding completely his needs of intimacy as a man who can express his love, affection and true deepest core as a thinking, feeling human being through his basic makeup as a sexual being (all in one basic, closely intertwined package as you aptly mentioned).

    I told SG last night that I didn’t feel anything when he first greeted me: okay he was handsome but he was a total stranger. We hadn’t shared anything. I didn’t feel the electric current yet till we kissed. And the total “surrendering of boundaries” between us was complete the next morning. He entered me -and I him- quite literally and figuratively through the magic power of ultimate intimacy called SEX in which both of us were rendered totally vulnerable and open and penetrable. That’s the ultimate way to know and feel someone -his/her true being-.

    It’s just so profound. It’s in fact spiritual.



  132.  #132Denise on September 13, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    #107

    Jacqueline, there is also something called a ‘personality type’. Some personality types are more about nurturing (feminine) and some are more about confidence (masculine). That doesn’t mean a woman who is more about confidence is not nurturing. That doesn’t mean a man who is more about nuruting isn’t confident. It’s what we are most predominant in as we are a mix of different personality types.

    You sound like a similar personality type to me–something known as a Warrior type. More analytical (we are not driven by emotion), more about confidence. It is unusual for a woman to be a Warrior, but here we are! (Taking some license based on your posts!). Warrior women’s challenge is to be more emotional, to be less aggressive and more assertive. There are ways to bring out that more creative (less analytical) side, makes us more well rounded.

    Does any of that resonate with you?



  133.  #133tinque on September 13, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Dorothea – What a fabulous question. First of all, for me, there has to be chemistry, for without it, the man’s touch would feel at best ho hum and at worst repellent.
    A fabulous lover makes my skin tingle, electricity sometimes/often courses through me when he caresses. He doesn’t have to have any special “technique”. I want to feel that he’s enjoying my body and me doing whatever he’s inspired to do with me and to me. His enjoyment of his ravishment of me heightens my experience.
    He cares if I’m feeling good. He wants to gives me orgasms, loves all of orgasms, (I’m sure it must make him feel more manly) but he doesn’t mope or moan if he doesn’t. He doesn’t feel he’s done anything “wrong”.
    This rarely happens, but if it does, he’s quite alright, delighted even if I finish myself off. This is not a blow to his ego in any way. (this would turn me off. it’s not a big deal. he’s not in my body, so he can’t always know where to go when)
    He is tuned into me, sensitive to my rhythm and to how my body is responding.
    He just makes me feel good.
    Is he perfect in every touch, each motion? Does everything he does send me? No. But that’s okay. It’s the whole experience, his intention, his love coming through.
    And I take responsibility for myself too here. As in the example above.
    Does this help?
    xxoo



  134.  #134Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    116: Lucy says:

    “And often when I’m feeling needy, I’ll start to rely more on feminine energy, which for me presents issues in my romantic relationships sometimes.” (Jason)

    “VERY interesting! That explains a lot about some of the men I have encountered in dating! Hmmm…..”

    And when women feel needy, often they will go into overfunctioning masculine mode to take up the slack. You can see how each side interferes with connection and attraction in opposite energetic ways very often.

    We’re going to start seeing a lot of unification start happening between men and women around getting help with relationships in the near future. We’ll start to see more holistic approaches that bring both sexes together instead of our trying to solve these issues on one side of the fence or the other.



  135.  #135Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    “he [Jonathon] thought that the best marriages were between good friends, not the best lover”

    I don’t think he meant it the way you are taking it. I think he meant that we can get carried away with someone who is an amazing lover but (as TG said) not great outside the sack.

    I heard him saying that the best marriages are between great friends who are also great lovers together.



  136.  #136Denise on September 13, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    #114

    he [Jonathon] thought that the best marriages were between good friends, not the best lover

    I totally agree with Tinque and wrote about this in earlier posts. ALL three legs of the stool need to be there in order for a long term relationship that is successful. That’s sexual attraction, friendship and commitment. There are subsets of each of those three categories, but those are the headings.

    In my opinion, it is a really big mistake to settle for less than having all 3. I did it and lived it, and now am divorced. I will not make that mistake again…unless I’m 90 and just want some company 🙂



  137.  #137Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    wow, Dorothea – it’s like what Katarina just posted, but the nuts and bolts I’m not talking about on open blog, just feels private. Smile…

    Lucy, I’m glad you had a different experience, once again we are at an impasse. I am curious as to how he got your email? and mine? cuz he said the site link didn’t work to blog….so I was confused to even get the email. And sometimes when you say the word “filters” I feel very TRIGGERED….like you say that with condenscion, and if only I in my ignorance could get past my filters I would agree with everyone and everything. You cannot get past your filters they ARE you….you could not function in the world, would literally go crazy if you did not filter. And have you looked up the EFT definition of limiting belief? It’s a semantics distinction I’ll grant you, but it is a distinction – as in it is with you your whole life, it is the unconcious force behind your actions and reactions, etc. vs. just a normal old limiting belief of I can’t jump over a 4′ wall. Stopping now, or this will turn circular…

    OOOOOH! and I love the so I dated my pillow….I love my pillow, Dorothea!

    Hugs,
    J



  138.  #138Turtle Girl on September 13, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Dorothea-

    I will tell you what I think a good lover is-no problem.

    A good lover is a man who can experience a full blown range of love making. He has taken the time to understand and educate himself on women’s bodies. He is not afraid to ask questions or experiment. He can so really slow and sensual and build me up till I explode. He can also “do it down and dirty” and hard and fast. He uses his hands and his mouth and his penis as well. He can kiss all over, he can have oral sex and enjoy giving and receiving. He will look you in the eye while you are int he act. He is connected to you spiritually while he is making love. He is in other words really present. He can get lost and melt into the whole sexual/sexual/body experience and not be in his head or be somewhere else. I want a lover who is there with me. He is a slow, soft and hard kisser. He nibbles, he is playful. He is interested in pleasing me-ravishing me like an exquisite meal or a really expensive bottle of good wine. He SAVORS the experience.

    Now-I could go on-but some of this is simple “personal preference”. Having said that I think most women want want I just described unless they have issues of their own sexually. I judge no one. My guy who is a wham bammer guy is a good person, he just is clueless about how to really please a woman and how to please me.

    I don’t know if I did a good job of describing a good lover or not. Your thoughts?



  139.  #139Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    “And when women feel needy, often they will go into overfunctioning masculine mode to take up the slack. You can see how each side interferes with connection and attraction in opposite energetic ways very often.”

    Ah, so true!!! Like me suggesting he mail my glasses back to me instead of meeting to get them like HE suggested! Argh!!!

    I forgive myself. 🙁



  140.  #140Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Hehe. I think you did a good job, Turtle Girl. 🙂



  141.  #141Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel bamboozled! We’re all here working with the tools and discussing private heart and sex matters (such is the theme of this whole thread)…what are you doing here exactly? lol. will you please create an alias so that I get the full jacqueline? in one convenient location with other sirens? play with us, damnit.



  142.  #142Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    @ Denise – hi, and yeah, when I was writing to Rori I wrote about a “warrior woman” voice and that’s when she wrote squeeky…lol…

    I am also a healer and an artist – I paint and have won some shows – photography also…

    so there’s this very emotional component and this very rational component – I worked harder to develop the rational component because my feeling always just were, like force of nature feelings…I WAS my feelings…and ….. My friends repeatedly used to tell me you are NOT your feelings….

    and I’ve led a lot of groups and stuff, been told I’m a good teacher…so all put together….

    old school….yesterday’s woman became today’s Warrior Woman, which is not the same as tomorrow’s woman because in a sense it was a molded identity that I worked on to achieve.

    Thanks for the insight – it feels like insight bubbles all over today!

    Jacqueline



  143.  #143Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    134: Lucy

    Aw, don’t beat yourself up about the small stuff. It all takes practice.



  144.  #144Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Dorothea – I wish I HAD started with an alias!!! but now I am quite sure I’ll be recognized no matter what my name says….heee…

    lover – the ability to touch in a way that conveys an energy – masculine lover – the touch that builds up to a pounding force and hopefully a physical one…I can.not.do.this with Jason reading….but bondage, submissive, topping from bottom and lots of stuff can be exciting. And, I once got something like 50+ fans on a semi porn site just from posting pix of my feet!!! Fetish…a fun place to play but a scary place to live….

    so –

    please give me a pass, my face is red and I’m trying to play…



  145.  #145Denise on September 13, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    #137

    You’re very well rounded Jacqueline! If you are also very analytical, that means you use your left and right sides of your brain very well…the sign of a genius 🙂

    I admire your artistic talents!



  146.  #146Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “Warrior women’s challenge is to be more emotional, to be less aggressive and more assertive.”

    Great point, Denise! I’m not sure where you got that typology (Warrior, etc.) — but would love to take a look at it. I’m guessing I would fit in the Warrior category as well. Sounds like a 1 or 8 on the enneagram???



  147.  #147Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Sweet. thanks! i like hearing everyone’s input. you ladies rock my world.

    jacqueline, if you make an alias, WE will know it’s you, maybe, but outsiders and googlers will not. go for it! *chants* do it do it do it

    no pressure;)



  148.  #148Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “This rarely happens, but if it does, he’s quite alright, delighted even if I finish myself off. This is not a blow to his ego in any way.” (Tinque)

    That’s the way my ex-h was/is. It’s great to have that in a lover. I wish I could do that with my current “sometime lover” — but I’m afraid to broach the subject because it might be “a blow to his ego.” 🙁 What do you think?



  149.  #149Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    139: Jacqueline

    What’s the safe word? 😉



  150.  #150BarbinOz on September 13, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    #60 Tinque

    Wow I find that fascinating, I was married for 29 years (!!!!) and I don’t recall ever smelling anything behind my husband’s ears??? Maybe it was on some subconscious level?



  151.  #151tinque on September 13, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Lucy – I didn’t always feel comfortable doing this. I decided one time after one too many times of feeling a bit “left hanging and frustrated” that I would try it.
    He encouraged me in the past to play with myself before and during or together which I came to love doing, so what difference would it make doing it afterward.
    I was nervous at first, concerned I would hurt his ego, but he was SO okay with it, my fears melted.
    I would suggest just plunging in and trying it. Or try masturbating to orgasm first. For me this often encourages vaginal ones and can make the whole experience just more so.
    xxoo



  152.  #152Dorothea on September 13, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Lucy, with my limited experience I actually have dealt with this issue twice. I just go to town on myself like it’s normal (it IS normal to want to touch yourself and have an orgasm), and enthusiastically tell him to play with my breasts or to stay inside of me after he’s finished so i can feel him inside me while i rub my ****.

    um, i use graphic words though…

    at least if it hurts his ego, it won’t affect his erection since he’s already done anyway:P



  153.  #153AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    *ahem*

    The safe word… Hoo-boy. That’s stirring up some intense… feelings.



  154.  #154tinque on September 13, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    BarbinOz – It’s a person’s own personal smell. I suppose it’s loaded with pheromones. I have a particularly sensitive nose (which can be not a good thing sometimes) which is maybe why I’m so aware of this, but I’m not alone in this as you might have read above.
    Check it out the next time you’re with someone with whom you have chemistry.
    xxoo



  155.  #155Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    What most people don’t realize is that you can learn and change paths to orgasm but it requires practice and taking your ego out of the equation. The brain is pretty malleable in this regard. I can’t back this up with any hard facts or data, but I personally believe women (and men for that matter) can learn to orgasm from any erogenous zone on the body. Orgasm really depends mostly on the brain and not the body part or method of stimulation.

    Again, limiting beliefs come into play… The reinforcement on beliefs around orgasmic pathways are very hard to break because the reward for a given pathway to orgasm is orgasm itself.



  156.  #156Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel confused by this paragraph. I don’t understand what you are saying:

    “And sometimes when you say the word “filters” I feel very TRIGGERED….like you say that with condenscion, and if only I in my ignorance could get past my filters I would agree with everyone and everything. You cannot get past your filters they ARE you….you could not function in the world, would literally go crazy if you did not filter.”

    Can you give me an example of where my use of the word “filters” triggered you?

    I assure you, I have not said anything to you with condescension. I am sorry you have felt that way. I sometimes experience you as being condescending on here, but I know (or believe) it is merely a function of my own filters/triggers, and not actually you being condescending. In fact, I think my “filter” with you is that you remind me a lot of parts of myself.

    This — “and if only I in my ignorance could get past my filters I would agree with everyone and everything” — is actually a perfect example of filters at work, because that is all coming from your own head. I do not at all think you are ignorant, nor did I ever say or imply that. And, I would never expect anyone to “agree with everyone and everything” — I feel amazed that you would think I think that.

    “You cannot get past your filters they ARE you”

    This I disagree with. Our filters, imo, are part of our conditioned ego, and not our true selves. The more aware and “conscious” we become, the more we release old programming, limiting beliefs, judgments, heal triggers, etc., the more purely we will see the world — less and less filtered through the ego — and we will be more at peace with others. Not agreeing, necessarily, but accepting, peaceful, and joyful.

    This is my viewpoint as it stands at the moment.

    <3
    Lucy



  157.  #157Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Oh, and yes, I understand the EFT definition of limiting belief — “as in it is with you your whole life, it is the unconcious force behind your actions and reactions, etc.” — that is exactly what I am talking about. And it goes along with what I just wrote about becoming more conscious and less driven by the unconscious reactions of our egos.

    Responding rather than reacting.



  158.  #158AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Lucy

    Can you make it a game? Tie up his hands a make him watch? Or ask him to touch himself, to show you how he likes to be touched and take turns?



  159.  #159Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Aw, Jason, thanks! (138) I love you!! Lol. 🙂



  160.  #160Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Thanks for the suggestions, Tinque and Amber. I would feel more concerned about working through it if there was long-term potential with him. . . but there’s not . . . he is just “filler.” Ooh, I feel guilty saying that!

    And I wonder…. was it Jonathon who mentioned this concept?….if the universe sees the place of “lover” already filled with this guy, so it’s not bringing me my forever man????

    What do you think? Was it Jonathon who said something like that???



  161.  #161Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Hey, Dorothea, just read your suggestion, too — thanks, girl! 🙂



  162.  #162Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Hehe, after he finishes, I can just say, “I’m not done” and then just get on with it. 🙂 He would probably be so surprised!!! I’m betting, in a good way. Ooh, I’m kinda getting turned on right now just thinking about it! 😀



  163.  #163Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    150 – Jason- I agree completely — how else would I explain having orgasms while asleep with no touch at all? 🙂



  164.  #164Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    “So I now have violent lightening streaking across my sky and HAIL. The air smells like a seam in the earth split wide open. Oh, Jacqueline… what did we awaken?”

    I don’t know, but I have been feeling an excitement (that is not sexual) like there’s something brewing in the air — for about the last half hour…..!



  165.  #165Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    158: Lucy

    Wow, lucky you! 😉



  166.  #166Denise on September 13, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    #141 @Lucy

    I am a 8 on the eanneagram! 3 was my next highest score on that test.

    King/Queen, Warrior, Lover, Magician are Jungian archtypes. I like this method because it’s easy to remember, easy to explain, easy to apply. We are all a combination of all 3 types, but one is dominant. Each personality type has it’s strengths and weaknesses–each personality type reacts positively to certain things that are said to them. This can be used anywhere in life, especially with the boss :). For example, Warriors love to be recognized for their power, so if someone says something that compliments their ‘power’, you’ve made a friend!

    I loved learning about this because it helped me to truly accept who I am, and to work on the parts of my personality that aren’t so great.

    Here’s an easy test you can take. Keep in mind any test is left brained, so by design it may tip in the direction of King/Queen and Warrior. But it’s been accurate for me and many, many other people I know who have taken the test.

    One more comment, I’ve also seen people manipulate the test so it comes out to who they WANT to be. That’s self defeating if the goal is to really understand and accept who you are.

    http://www.kwml.com



  167.  #167Denise on September 13, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    #158

    Damn Lucy, that’s a pretty cool thing!



  168.  #168tinque on September 13, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Lucy and anyone else re: orgasms – Yes it’s possible to have orgasms while asleep. I too have had this happen on occasion.
    And yes Jason is absolutely correct that you can teach yourself to have all kinds of different orgasms. I taught myself to have g-spot and cervical ones. And the possibilities continue.
    This is part of my work.
    xxoo



  169.  #169Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    @ Lucy….lol…..I like filters!!!! ergo you thinking the less the better…feels off to me. It’s always like this with us – we share what Jason and I used to share – a “prickly” energy…I can agree a limiting belief might be best kicked to the curb…but I choose my filters and often, my beliefs – well thought out, but chosen. I don’t think a person with no ego is a well rounded nor stable individual – it’s just an opinion, tho and kind of irrelevant to the sex convo. It feels condescending to me because we are not alligned to the same goal – in removing filters, in agreeing on what limiting beliefs are, in communicating, etc. But I’ll take your word on it that it’s not. ps – I still wanna know how our emails addys were out there???? well, I know I post mine sometimes….

    AND whoo hoooooo …..storm clouds coming….negative ions making everything better!!!

    So – here’s a radical comment that doesn’t even have a place here but illustrates this off to the side conversation – many, many people do NOT want to get well. They get a HUGE payoff from whatever illness they have manifested. They get attention, they get to be special, whatever. The get their insurance to pay for massages, they get to let themselves have permission to use their illness for any variety of stuff….and they taught us/me to just let that be. OR they’ve manifested an illness out of their negative belief and if you were to do away with the illness, in a sense you would do away with them…. so, you do NOT to try and heal it, or them. Most people don’t talk about this anymore because it can create a what did I do causation to the person…and it’s just science – or is it? Either way, I was taught you only try and heal those that ask to be healed/helped.



  170.  #170Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    yes!! I direct us all to the SEXpert here…Tinque, please take it away….

    and Jason I’ve been loling since you posted, just cannot go through/on with it….one thing the site did show me tho – is that there is this huge range of behavior that is considered normal to someone somewhere, and it made me waaaaay more accepting of people’s needs that might be considered off the grid? AND, you lurkers out there…yep, the more powerful the guy, the more he likes to be submissive???heeee……btw, the submissive has ALL the power in true dominance….sheesh, Jacqueline, will you just shut up???? Dorothea! listen to Tinque…



  171.  #171Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    tinque and others – yes behind the ears where the hair line ends, there is a little indentation there – that is the spot. And if you just breathe softly there, it will drive them wild. Another thing I like is for the man to take a rinse shower – no soap just a rinse to get off the day’s smells and I get just his body. Then if you nuzzle into his arm pit or his groin, the pheromones are all there! awesome. There is no doubt the smell we pick up is important.

    An awesome lover to me is someone who begins the whole experience long before the events begin. Like on the golf course – coming and standing really close to me; breathing on me with that lustful look; bets and rewards are a huge tease. Then all the romancing stuff – candles, a good wine, lovely music, good food, lots of laughter and teasing. Lusty kissing and break aways. Lots of caressing of all parts of the body. Having him undress me, slowly and with such gentle tenderness. Lots of skin to skin caressing, touching, exploring with finger tips, full hands, tongues, lips – everything. Usually I like him to lead because it is then all about my pleasure. A great lover will respond more to how he gives pleasure and how we respond to his efforts. I find this just astounding actually and hadn’t known about that until I was divorced and took my first lover. And the married guy I took on was so unbelievable! He was not appreciated by his wife and wow was she missing out. A great lover is completely motivated to give his woman unbelievable pleasure. And they listen and watch the whole body respond to them. This is what creates the feeling of complete surrender to bliss. Sigh.
    And all the other stuff the others have said here.

    And I shall disagree with Johnathon on this one thing – I believe awesome sex will set the stage for building the friendship if the raw ingredients are there. The raw ingredients are common values, respect, liking each other. I married a friend (albeit a gay one) and we got along well – but it was the emptiest loneliest experience – my goodness it brings tears just remembering. Sex is so important



  172.  #172BarbinOz on September 13, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Lizzie # 166

    STOP please, you are turning me on with this imaginary lover LOL!! Swoon, WTH is he?????

    It is 9.45am at the airport and there are queues of people checking in for their flights and here I am reading all this sexy, passionate stuff and I haven’t even got one man in the CD rotation yet let alone 3 ha ha!!!!



  173.  #173AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Lucy- re#155-aww, c’mon. Where’s your sense of fair play? If your sex improves that means you get better sex NOW,

    AND

    The next woman will thank you. In fact, your forever guy may be out there, right now, learning how to *really* please a woman….



  174.  #174Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    argh! Amber….ha! Love that!



  175.  #175Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    WTHeck?? @ Denise – wow I wanna be all of the answers on #12!!

    So – once again, I defy my own expectations….cuz…I’m predominately nurturing and passionate – sigh….well that explains all the work I do at being logical, huh?

    Very fun!!! Thank you so much!!!

    Look out, Michelangelo(Jacqueline)—You are predominately a Lover!

    You also possess aspects of the Warrior, King/Queen, and Magician personalities and your complete personality profile can be described as 46.2% Lover, 30.8% Warrior, 15.4% King/Queen, and 7.7% Magician.*



  176.  #176Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    oh, and no one’s gonna believe I answered completely honestly….cuz this is what it says:

    While nurturing like a King and Queen, and artistic like a Magician, you sometimes lack the ability to speak up and stand your ground, and have a tendency to be passive and introverted.



  177.  #177Ragnell on September 13, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Rori,
    I am angry. I did not like today’s mail at all. It makes me feel like I’m doing everything wrong. And it feels like you are trying to make me feel that no matter what to do, it’s wrong, so that I have to depend on you and whatever is the next product you want to offer. I don’t like it. It is dissappointing to see that your main interest is selling your silly programs, which aren’t working by the way, but you lie to us and you want us to believe that you’re interested in helping us. Heck, I was never the kind of loser that you were. Only losers like you don’t ever call a man. Me? I have nothing to fear. I am tired of your advice making me feel like I am doing everything wrong when it is precisely what I do that is working. Because what I do expresses who I really am, and hiding this, this treasure that I am, would be a display of low self esteem. I have never been treated like trash the way you have, because, you know? I’ve never been trash. I’ve never allowed myself to be trash the way you have been.
    Fuck you, Rori!
    I am not going to let you make me feel inadequate just so you can sell me your stupid programs. I feel like a fool and I’m hurt and disappointed.



  178.  #178BarbinOz on September 13, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Look out, Michelangelo—You are predominately a Lover!

    You also possess aspects of the Magician, King/Queen, and Warrior personalities and your complete personality profile can be described as 38.5% Lover, 23.1% Magician, 23.1% King/Queen, and 15.4% Warrior.*

    SNAP Jacqueline 😀



  179.  #179Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    🙂 Just returned from my walk. While I was walking, a guy randomly texted me, “Go Ravens!!”

    My initial reaction was *yawn* (which I did not express) but then I texted back:

    Me: Go darkness! In this tunnel i just walked thru by the water. Go magic in the air!

    Him: Where are you? I love football, but I would much rather be where there is magic in the air!

    Me: In the park where it is too dark (park rules) but I am here with my dog and the magic.

    Him: Hmmmm. I want magic!!!!

    😀

    (and, yes, Jacqueline, that was an exact transcript — sorry if it bothers you! Really!)



  180.  #180Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Tag, Barb you’re it!! and I so wanted the Magician thing…..so what’s your weakness??

    smile and off for now….

    J



  181.  #181AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    RE: 171

    ROFLMAO



  182.  #182Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    “In fact, your forever guy may be out there, right now, learning how to *really* please a woman….”

    Ewww, I don’t want to think about my man pleasing another woman!!!



  183.  #183Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Although…..

    I’ve been thinking a bit about what Erika said about polyamory….

    What if TN man is my forever man and it is meant to be a polyamorous relationship together with Interloper Girl?????

    Huh??

    Erika, are you here? What do you think???



  184.  #184FinallyFern on September 13, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Thank you Jennifer, jacqueline and BarbinOz,

    Just hearing from you at a moment when I was feeling frozen allowed me to take a deep breath.

    I do know with certainty he was with his ex. I painfully kept silent until I had the proof on paper. But of course, I did not tell him my exact proof because it would take away the only insight I had to the truth.

    And Jennifer you just touched upon how I have been feeling, like I am the one who is going crazy, always self-doubting, and end up feeling guilty for my feelings because he is outraged that I could even think of accusing him.

    All along I kept thinking and feeling like I was somehow just not doing enough.

    Thank you again for responding so quickly, it gave me a moment to gather myself and now try to process this.

    xo Fern



  185.  #185Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    I can’t have cervical ones cuz I don’t have a cervix. 🙁 But I love g-spot ones. 😀



  186.  #186Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Jacqueline, we are using the term “ego” completely differently. “Filters,” too, it seems. We probably actually agree, lol, just have different definitions for the words we use!



  187.  #187Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    “Either way, I was taught you only try and heal those that ask to be healed/helped.”

    I feel confused. Are you trying to say you don’t want to get well and don’t want any help or healing?



  188.  #188AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Lucy-

    How did you read this to be about her?



  189.  #189Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    This –

    “The next woman will thank you”

    is a very good point!!



  190.  #190Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    No, Lucy! that’s not what I was saying…

    and yes I think we are just using the same words for different things.

    The you don’t heal someone unless asked is what I was taught in massage school, etc. If someone does not want to heal, it is not my business, nor is it my place to judge them for that or try and figure out their payoff, etc. I am only a facilitator for what they want in that environment.

    I’m talking about physical illness, btw, and I don’t have any, so I second Amber’s thought….

    @ Amber….okay, Princess – you take the dang thing!!! See how I developed such a very opinionated opinion!!!! Yall can’t possibly be allowed to see I’m very sensitive and vulnerable! OMGosh, the horror…

    Night for now….signing off earlier for my mental relaxation….

    grins and waves,
    J



  191.  #191Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Amber….Lynnestarr – my name for Melb(a) Lynne wants your email address….write and let me know???

    @ Fern…hang in there! Watch this show called Lie to Me – then whenever he does something weird you can shout – “deflection!!”…smile….



  192.  #192Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    All right sirens you can all beat me up with a bazillion wet noodles – I sent an email to my “dead guy” last summer flame to find out how he is.

    He is madly in love with the woman he dumped me for
    He has a totally awesome new job
    He got a huge severance package
    He is over the moon with happiness

    And I feel tears…



  193.  #193Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    I need to understand what I feel

    I feel terribly afraid I will never find the love that he has found – and she freaking pursued him!!! I know that!!



  194.  #194Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    i feel such loss – I loved how he lusted after me; I loved how he wanted to feel me and the life in me; I love the intensity of the passion he showed me



  195.  #195Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    I was a messager for him – I brought intense passion into his life
    and he was a messanger for me – he cried for me to feel



  196.  #196Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    he drank too much – I thought he might be an alcoholic – I hated that



  197.  #197Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    he has huge masculine energy – as I think about him, I can remember feeling that huge masculine energy and now I know what that is
    he cracked me open – he helped me realize that as scary as my feelings are, they are good



  198.  #198Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    I am so afraid I won’t find what he has found
    I am so afraid another man will do the same thing – have 2 women on the go and choose the other one – I don’t want to be the one left behind
    I don’t want to be told you are so sexy but I am not in love with you and there isnt’ a future for us



  199.  #199Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    “How did you read this to be about her?”

    I didn’t — that’s why I said I felt confused. Wasn’t sure what she was getting at, so I was asking questions in order to understand.



  200.  #200Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    ugh, I feel so awful
    all tight in my tummy
    all tight in my throat
    I can’t speek
    I just want to hide in the corner and weep
    I want to cry and let it all out
    but my kids are sitting behind me
    I feel angry at myself to wanting to know how he has transformed his life
    I had written him a profound letter about opening himself to the possibilities and exploring life differently
    He said he had never met anyone as smart and insigtful as me
    so what ???
    I know I was an incredibly important part of his transformation



  201.  #201Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Hey, Jacqueline, I lost track of “Lie to Me” after the last season ended — when is it on??? I love that show!!



  202.  #202Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    so then why do I feel so awful
    I knew this wouldn’t work…but I guess I never let go of the hope
    maybe it was still taking up space and I didn’t realize it



  203.  #203Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Aww, Lizzie, so sorry you’re sad. (((HUGS)))



  204.  #204Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    I’m off



  205.  #205Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Lizzie — “maybe it was still taking up space and I didn’t realize it”

    And now that it’s not taking up that space, there is room for something new. <3



  206.  #206AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Oh Lizzie…

    Hugs. I am proud of you practicing being strong for your kids’ sake.

    Please allow yourself to go into this when you have the space to be you (not mom-you).

    I wish I could take them out to blow bubbles and give you time to feel your hurt…



  207.  #207Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Thanks, Denise! That was fun! My results:

    All hail—You are predominately a King or Queen!

    You also possess aspects of the Lover, Warrior, and Magician personalities and your complete personality profile can be described as 38.5% King/Queen, 30.8% Lover, 23.1% Warrior, and 7.7% Magician.*

    AND, apparently my perfect match is a Magician — and GUESS WHO exactly fits that description???

    Yep, WH and TN man.

    Now what???

    Does that mean (oh cool!!!!) that I am attracted to the right type for me??? 😀

    And, theoretically, then, if they know what’s good for them, they should be attracted to ME! 😀

    Okay, boys, c’mon!!!!

    3,2,1 ….. you’re on!



  208.  #208AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Lizzie,

    You helped him become! What a tremendous gift you gave him…



  209.  #209Denise on September 13, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    #196 @Lizzie

    I’m sorry, you are obviously very hurt. I think everyone on this forum can identify with your pain.

    I do think your very astute observation of him ‘taking up space’ is a good one.

    Be kind to yourself, you will get beyond this.



  210.  #210Denise on September 13, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    I’m glad those who took the test enjoyed it!

    Now start thinking about people you might know and what personality type they may be!

    THESE ARE GENERALITIES! 🙂

    King/Queen: left brained, tend to get mired in the details and then can’t make a decision, analytical. The benevolent leader, more about nurturing. Tend to dress well, very put together. Like to go out with lots of friends or has a lot of friends.

    Warrior: Left brained, action oriented, analytical. Can be aggressive, opinionated. More about confidence. Often likes to spend time alone, tends to have a smaller group of close friends. Lots of time motorcyle drivers, hunters, wear flannel shirts and work boots.

    Lover: Think Birkenstock :), long flowing skirts, flower child. Right brained, not analytical, more scattered and spontaneous. All about emotion, which is their downfall. More of a lean backers, doesn’t take action. Sweet and loving, more about nurturing.

    Magician: The ‘life of the party’, enjoys being ‘on stage in life. More about confidence, right brained so not as analytical and organized. These people tend to wear things like tye dye t shirts.

    (Jennifer Aniston is a Queen, Brad Pitt is a King, Robin Williams is a Magician.)

    Supposedly opposites are supposed to fit perfectly, but I do have some issues with that. The next perfect scenario is opposite emotional styles: king/queen with a warrior; a lover with a magician. The least best connection is opposite intellectual styles, king/queen with a lover; a warrior with a magician. (I totally see the conflict between warrior and magician in my own life.)



  211.  #211life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Oh Lizzie….my goodness….how articulate you are about your situation! i know exactly what you are going through and i definitely felt your pain deeply
    and acutely because it is my pain too.

    Did you see my situation on another article and you answered me. Did you see my last response there?

    It’s a good challenge to stay strong inside and soft outside, but I am staying strong. but I still feel that I do not ever want to know the way his life turns out if I am not to be a big part of it. I don’t like feeling like that, but I do feel like that, so there is no use in having a preference about what I am feeling.

    I kind of feel discarded, but I am not exactly sure if that is what is going on, or if I am personalizing it a little too much.

    I am being bombarded from all directions about self limiting beliefs

    I am not convinced that I should slam and lock the door yet, because the courageous thing would be to not burn bridges but stay open to sharing insights if at some time that becomes comfortable. Right now, there is to be no communication for a while.

    Incredible courage is needed because of all the negativity I feel in him and his space and he is not calm or rational enough to see how his negativity is affecting him emotionally. I don’t think he is angry with me, but he might be because I didn’t want to date him right away and told him to call back in a year. Then is competitive drive kicked in and he charmed the pants off of me and the rest is history.

    I am learning that there is a very fine line in any relationship between being compassionate and letting someone abuse you (being an enabler).

    Ultimately, I am content to know I may have played a part in his transformation without paying too much of a spiritual price. He is a messenger for me, that is certain. Writing and reading here today has been of immeasurable help.

    I’m sure I will have more to say….

    hugs to you

    L



  212.  #212life_is_too_short_to... on September 13, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    When did sex begin to become equated with love?

    At one time, it was just another function.

    And what defines love?

    So why is there a clitoris, whose only purpose is to generate pleasure.?

    Sex is a very intimate expression that I don’t feel i have to act out with a lot of different people. It really needs to feel “right” for me, clicking on several different levels, and that is rare.

    Otherwise, I,m not really into going through all that it entails just for the physical pleasure.



  213.  #213Lizzie on September 13, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Lucy, Amber, Life, Denise – OMG I can feel your caring
    thank you so much
    I am going to sink into the anguish and let it flow through me

    I know I helped bring him back to life
    I know he opened me up to feel

    He actually gave me all his contact information and wants to meet – I might or might not who knows
    I am shocked at my emotional reaction
    I am glad to have had such an emotional reaction
    I didn’t know I was holding on – I haven’t had contact with him since new years when he sent me a nice card
    I know he feels I am a very special soul
    – and I know he needed someone a lot simpler; I know I freaked him out with how deeply I listen and how I can articulate what was going on with him
    I know I am really different – sometimes I think my life would be a ton easier if I was not as smart and insightful as I am
    I also know creativity, exploring, and taking huge risk and the road not even conceived is what makes me happy – I can’t be a simpler girl
    I just need to find an equally passionate person who likes me just the way I am
    I am actually happy for him
    I am increadibly afraid for myself
    I never knew that before
    I am afraid
    and now I am crying
    I never knew I was afraid
    oh my did I ever trigger myself
    tears are just streaming
    all that fear – my god who ever would have guessed



  214.  #214Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Oh, Denise, I feel so sad now!

    I was thinking to myself: If I am attracted to the Magician — which I am — and they are my best match — then why have I always ended up with guys who are totally NOT Magician-types?

    Then I read the Magician description again, and I saw — oh sadness! — it perfectly describes M who I was engaged to in college and I broke up with him in order to self-sabotage — *sniff*

    No wonder he felt so right for me — he WAS right for me!

    My lovely, funny, fun, unpredictable, lively, friendly, entertaining Magician. 🙁

    M. I broke his heart.

    And now I feel drawn to TN man and WH — they are so much like M — they, too, are Magicians.

    But they are just out of reach.

    Why?

    Erika says it is something inside ME.

    I wrote that whole story the other day about wanting to be safe to a man — the mosquito zapper, Man-Drowner — it came out of nowhere — a realization that I am not safe for men — and I even added to my commitment list: I commit to being safe for men.

    And now I am remembering M — how I broke his heart.

    Oh yes, I see you deep inside me: FEAR that I would do the same thing to WH that I did to M —

    Draw him close, draw him in, seduce him — heart, mind, body, and soul — and when he becomes vulnerable, putty in my hands — when I have cut off Samson’s hair — I suddenly despise him and betray him in his weakness.

    Hmm, that is the same dynamic going on when I lose interest after sex!

    Wow.

    I apparently have a Delilah complex.

    What now?

    I don’t want to hurt men.

    I want to be safe for men.

    I want to be safe for a Magician.

    I love and adore Magician’s.

    Why did I hurt M? I loved and adored him!

    Why would I hurt someone I love and adore?

    Poor WH. He doesn’t want Delilah to break his heart. Smart boy.

    I will not break your heart.

    No matter what.

    I will love you, adore you, respect you.

    I will not betray you.

    I am a good girl. No matter what my mother said, I am a good girl.

    I am a good girl.

    Ah, I am a good girl.

    I am NOT a bad girl. No, mom, I am not.

    I may not follow the same rules you do — no dancing, no drinking, no being different — but I am not a bad girl.

    I am a good girl.

    I am safe for men.

    You can trust me. I will not break your heart.

    Do I believe that?

    Part of me does not. Part of me whispers, “You will always be no good for men.”

    Limiting belief.

    Even though part of me believes I will always be no good for men, I love and accept myself anyway.

    I choose to believe I am good for men.

    I am good for men.

    I am good for a man.

    I am good for all men.

    I feel scared.

    And kinda excited and hopeful.



  215.  #215Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Lucy….will you please tell me how Jonathon got our addresses? or yours anyway? and I just found something relevant to this….that came in my inbox..



  216.  #216Ragnell on September 13, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Rori,
    I am angry. I did not like today’s mail at all. It makes me feel like I’m doing everything wrong. And it feels like you are trying to make me feel that no matter what to do, it’s wrong, so that I have to depend on you and whatever is the next product you want to offer. I don’t like it. It is dissappointing to see that your main interest is selling your silly programs, which aren’t working by the way, but you lie to us and you want us to believe that you’re interested in helping us. Heck, I was never the kind of loser that you were. Only losers like you don’t ever call a man. Me? I have nothing to fear. I am tired of your advice making me feel like I am doing everything wrong when it is precisely what I do that is working. Because what I do expresses who I really am, and hiding this, this treasure that I am, would be a display of low self esteem. I have never been treated like trash the way you have, because, you know? I’ve never been trash. I’ve never allowed myself to be trash the way you have been.
    I am not going to let you make me feel inadequate just so you can sell me your stupid programs. I feel like a fool and I’m hurt and disappointed.



  217.  #217Ragnell on September 13, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    I don’t need anyone to call me needy. From what authority are you speaking of, as to know what *he* finds attractive? Who do you think you are to dictate what is a girl and what is a boy?



  218.  #218Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    okay it’s in Adobe, I can’t quote out of it. It’s by Steve Wells from EFT Tapping Down under and it’s an exercise in polarity – negative belief by definition implies good belief – and you tap around both and get like double cleared. I’m going to be doing his work and writing about it; and if you look at our personality tests I can see why we use words which don’t mean the same thing to us!



  219.  #219Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    jline, that sounds similar to what erika does.



  220.  #220Lucy on September 13, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    ragnell, sorry u are feeling bad about that email. jline, he and i connected via facebook.



  221.  #221Katarina Phang on September 13, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Ragnell, maybe if you outline which part(s) exactly outraged you we can discuss it. I have done all those mistakes Rori said myself. Maybe not all of them are exactly wrong, but some are worth noting



  222.  #222Jlina on September 13, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    LUCY!!

    how did you get my nickname??? this feels weird! but hey, I think I will change per Dorothea’s suggestion! anyway, I think he’s great but sometimes I feel weird, like there should be privacy levels on here or something?!

    shoutout to Dorothea!!!



  223.  #223Brenda on September 13, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Ragnell,

    I feel yucky reading what you wrote. I respect Rori a lot and her programs have transformed my life. It feels horrible to hear someone insult her.



  224.  #224Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    LUCY!!! How did you get my nickname??? I feel freaked out!



  225.  #225Brenda on September 13, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Jacqueline,

    RE: #209 – Did you sign up for his eletters on his site?



  226.  #226Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Yes, and he was kind enough to provide me with a free program to review – you know he works with the founder of EFT? and the polarity document download is amazing!!! Hey, Brenda…how was your day?



  227.  #227Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    Brenda – will you check your email and write back? thanks!!



  228.  #228Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    okay I think it’s on my blog….but it’s like my pen name and I’d really like to be my “real” name here – which is Jacqueline, but you all can call me J….well ‘cept Mercedes that is. Been a looooong day and I’m off to date my pillow.

    Nite, sirens,
    J



  229.  #229Ragnell on September 13, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    She’s calling me NEEDY and DESPERATE. She says he’ll NEVER feel inspired and that he’ll NEVER be attracted to me and that I’ll NEVER feel adored and that he’ll NEVER commit.

    She doesn’t know him. And she doesn’t know me.

    I’m not a Siren.
    I’m a woman.
    I don’t “girl” anyone nor “outgirl” anything because I’m not a girl
    I’m a woman.

    I feel my feelings.

    I don’t need a stupid program to tell me EXACTLY what I need to DO or SAY to get him in fear of DOING IT WRONG.



  230.  #230Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    oh, and Brenda I misunderstood – I signed up for eletters from Steve Wells of EFT down under. Thanks! I know my email is freely given here, but wanted to make sure no one was like making “lists” or anything. My issue….and one Dorothea brought up earlier. How can anyone google me from blog and pull up what I write here? I know someone will know!

    thanks, all!

    Jacqueline



  231.  #231AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    jline- It’s on your blog! I think it’s how you sign your comments…

    Please feel free to give my gmail addy to Mel B (wink) Lynn



  232.  #232Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Ragnell….I’m hearing you, just involved in my own drama here. Why don’t you write to Rori – I think she lists contact info on the let your sqeeky voice be heard page?

    I don’t think that’s how she meant it, but I hear how you understood it and are offended. Hopefully, it can be cleared up.

    take care!



  233.  #233Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    ah! Amber I knew you’d be the smart one!!! thanks…and see you manana!

    J



  234.  #234AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Ah- sorry 🙁 I like your nickname! But I wont use it anymore.

    I’m a little lost on the EFT down under guy? He works with who?

    And there is a way to google the bit of code associated with your gravitar and pull up anywhere it is used.

    Your code contains:
    b0XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX5?rating=R&default=https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/avatar-default.jpg”

    along with a bunch of other characters which I XX-d out



  235.  #235Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Hey, thanks for that and I like my nickname too…and it’s gonna be used on my all the way live site one day so I just don’t want them confused! and I’m just gonna have to get off gravitar, then I’ll be really lost when I come back tomorrow!

    take care and sweet dreams!

    J



  236.  #236Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    EFT down under works with the guy who invented EFT!
    ‘kay I’m just another pink flower now….lol….



  237.  #237Tina on September 13, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    I missed the squeaky voice page , what catagory is it under?



  238.  #238janjune on September 13, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    just recording–

    RE: Jason’s # 42 earlier today–

    *knew* i was missing part of it earlier today— something very important–couldn’t identify it at the time.
    now i think “there weren’t enough words surrounding the concept to make it stand out!!!”
    and
    I THINK I DO THIS ALOT WITH MEN!
    I THINK I MISS SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS MEN SAY BECAUSE THEY DON’T USE ALOT OF WORDS!
    I THINK I …could quit yelling… :)…
    i think i equate important information with more words— the more words, the more important the issue. uuuuuggggghhhhhh……….. i hate realizing that i do this,… how boring for men to have to wade through all those words to get to hear the point…

    okay,… AWARE NOW!
    omg,omgomg i feel like i have the capacity to change this!! that i can learn to use less words with a man and not drown him in them. wait until i have thought through the issue before answering rather than trying to figure it out as i go—
    … my exhusband used to say that!! he’d roll his eyes and say “the *point*?!”
    im laughing now, but it really did used to frustrate him.
    however, he was also the type of man who you couldn’t say, “well, give me a minute to think about it, okay?

    NO!
    he wanted an answer NOW… what’s to think about? either you do or you don’t blahblah…
    so i only take ownership of my part of the issue
    and i don’t feel guilty about it
    only aware.

    anyhoo

    the comment:
    “Ah, now this is probably true. Men are probably more directly in touch with our basic needs than women are. Women are socialized to be overly concerned with other people’s needs in our society to the denial of their own needs. If a woman can be more in touch with her basic needs, she can become easy to be with too and make requests.”

    this afternoon i didn’t fully pick up on this part–

    “If a woman can be more in touch with her basic needs, she can become easy to be with too and make requests.”

    OH YEH, this is REALLY HUGE !!



  239.  #239Tina on September 13, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    I cant believe Rori said “sport f*cking” omg!



  240.  #240Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    hey, janjune….loving it, huh?!!
    Tina – like 4 posts back – check Aug archives, then Sept. and hiya….and last post she quotes the guy as saying f**K

    now g’nite!!!

    xoxo,
    J



  241.  #241AmberS on September 13, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Exploring this fear

    I am suddenly so wanting intimacy with my guy. I want to know who he is, underneath the person I know and love.

    I’m realizing that I don’t know if there might be a future

    I don’t know what his goals are

    I don’t know what his purpose is

    I don’t know what he wants

    I don’t know if I fit into those answers for him.

    I don’t know if he fits into what I want

    I feel sad because I feel heartbreak at the idea of us ending

    I feel my fear of looking too close at this. I feel afraid that we might discover we are not each others forever

    I want truth. I feel my fear and I accept it. Fear has no power over me.

    I want to find a way to open my heart to him totally.

    I want him to see me, completely.

    Who I am, who I want to become.

    I want to see him completely

    I want to love him wholly.

    All of him

    All of me



  242.  #242Daria on September 13, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    I finally did it. the luck magic. i used Jaqueline’s tip about suspending disbelief – which i have been using, it was nice to put a phrase to it…

    i thought… ok, i want Man. X to call me, and because im lucky he will

    suspend disbelief

    about an hour later, he called.

    he hadn’t called in days!

    This is the first time this has worked. I’ve reached a new threshold. I feel juiced.

    oh.

    and
    he said, wow i hurt his feelings because i broke plans to see him last time.

    he’s like so what have you been doing?

    i said waiting for your call hehe.

    he said i wish you were waiting for my call

    lol. i said i was. hehe

    so cute and fun. now he wants to come over.

    i want to see him

    i feel excited



  243.  #243Rori Raye on September 13, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Andrea – one word – drama. You are well rid of…step back and happiness will find you. Love, Rori



  244.  #244Jason Miller on September 13, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    231: janjune

    Glad you got it!

    I have to say that in general it can be very taxing on a man’s psyche when a woman is “locked on transmit.” That means she’s holding down the talk button on the walkie-talkie so no one else can talk and be heard. Your appreciation of a man’s typical tendency to use few words shows great kindness on your part.

    Think of a teenage boy who’s got testosterone raging in his body. Most teenage boys give only single word answers to questions from their mothers. If you click on my name on this comment, you’ll go to my website. I just posted an article on my blog about testosterone and the episode of This American Life from NPR that I reference has a great example of the mind and voice of a teenage boy.



  245.  #245Rori Raye on September 13, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    Carole – welcome, and –I’ll reach out for different versions of the No Girlfriend speech…everyone, thanks!! Love, Rori



  246.  #246Pseudonymous on September 13, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    All hail—You are predominately a Queen!
    46.2% Queen
    23.1% Lover
    15.4% Warrior
    15.4% Magician

    At your best within the confines of your own “castle,” you prefer that which is safe, secure, and known. No surprise then that you’re most comfortable interacting one-on-one with those you love or want to know better, and that your confidence loses steam in new situations.

    Located on the other end of the spectrum, your perfect opposite is an assertive and creative Magician.

    ==========

    Yup, I’m definitely married to a Magician – loves to be performing, center of attention.

    Wrote this a while ago as a “stanza” of a collaborative poem:

    She watches and listens to all
    the other shes and hes around her
    and, once again, muses why it is that
    the quiet, thoughtful shes and hes
    can’t just be attracted to each other
    instead of settling for crumbs of attention
    from those they desire.
    It’s a ritual she knows all too well …
    sitting on the sidelines watching
    while he makes sure that everyone notices him.
    She wonders what it would be like if,
    for just one night,
    her attention alone would be enough.

    (c)9/16/2008

    *crossing back over the moat now, pulling up the drawbridge to my castle and watching from the parapet*



  247.  #247Jacqueline on September 13, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Hi, just jumped in to say sorry for the franticness….sometime around when I started my blog and Athol’s comments all pinged around – my $1,000 Sony Vaio bit the dust; just went black and was sadly diagnosed with a dead mother….board. it made me a bit paranoid, but I shall get over that soon, I mean two repair shops and no one could tell me why? sadly…..

    @ Daria – Excellent you Magician!

    @ Amber – what if it’s an exciting experiment to find out who he is??? and you fall even deeper into intimacy….and love? What if he never stops growing and you are always fascinated by him? What if because of you he grows into a man who is a gift to you and to the world? Yes, I have no doubt you can do that….if you choose.

    xo,
    j



  248.  #248Ragnell on September 14, 2010 at 12:28 am

    I feel censored and ignored. I also feel I carry a truth. I acknowledge that truth. I know it is not a comfortable truth to many because you have been brainwashed by Rori’s program. Unlike Rori, I am not going to write about how any of you should feel or what the future will be if you do this or that. But I’ll share my point of view: I am being taken advantage of and ripped off. Whatever I learn, according to Rori, will never be enough. Because it is important that I keep buying from her. The message is contradictory precisely because if I do something to “have the relationship I want” it will be something to make me less attractive and less girly and less of a “modern siren”. Well, it’s not going to work that way for me.



  249.  #249Tina on September 14, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Ragnell, I hear you, I dont know what to say. I know your not happy though. I dont want to come off sounding like a Rori Raye disciple so I’ll just keep my mouth shut , hows that?



  250.  #250Tina on September 14, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Ragnell, are you doing the squeaky voice exercise?



  251.  #251BarbinOz on September 14, 2010 at 3:15 am

    Ragnell, what is going on with you that you are feeling soooo ripped off and used with Rori? I am only a RR newbie myself and am struggling with some of this stuff in my head……….is it one thing in particular, are you pissed off because you have been doing all the “stuff” and it’s not working?

    I truly am interested and am not a disciple so please feel safe to tell me/us.

    I have to say as much as I love the emails there is no way I can afford set after set of DVD’s and thought long and hard about the only set I could afford…..I am still on a huge learning curve and haven’t even put any of the tools into practise yet but I can see where I have been going wrong all of my life, always overfunctioning, always, always, always, turning around a man from one who was SOO into me to one who couldn’t give a s**t…….



  252.  #252BarbinOz on September 14, 2010 at 3:28 am

    Lizzie, Lizzie, Lizzie #190-196 and more……..sometimes it is best to leave the past right where it is, behind us…………….

    There is one man who I consider (so far, please God not the last one) to have been The Love Of My Life as I was his, or so he said, and it has been over for more than a year, and although I like to tell myself I am over him and don’t care what he does any longer if I were to email him (and yes I have been tempted MANY times) and he were to tell me he had found a new love, was happy as Larry, had come into some money, etc, etc, I know I would feel exactly as you do right now……..sometimes it is better the NOT knowing…….

    My heart goes out to you tonight, you are a really lovely, caring woman and I am SURE you will find the right man because you BLOODY WELL deserve it right????

    I am thinking of trying to get into Erika’s class on Sunday about this self limiting stuff, what do you think? I don’t even know what a teleclass is, but we have about 5 days to find out, WE, you/I/all of us women on here are deserving of true love, it is not just for the lucky few………and I do admit to getting pissed off, well not really pissed off, but ya know envious of those on here who tell us how wonderful their love lives are………like they are rubbing salt into the wound, and I know they aren’t really but I don’t want to hear about how some man likes the way you arch your back to receive him when I can’t even get a friggin’ date on a FREE dating site, does that make me less than you, well no cos I had a husband that loved the way we had sex, maybe he even loved the way I arched my back too, only trouble was he was spreading his “lurve” around with others too, I feel like Daria minus the Ganja, just riffing away and letting it all out and it feels good too 😀

    Come on Lizzie, let’s go arch our backs and make men lust for us 🙂



  253.  #253Denise on September 14, 2010 at 4:32 am

    #249

    Here, here! 🙂

    I have a man in my life like that too and would feel the same exact way. It’s been over a year. I am well over him emotionally, but now I need to ‘sweep’ him away. The next time he contacts me, I am going to let him know this and wish him well. I’m ready.



  254.  #254Denise on September 14, 2010 at 4:43 am

    #212 @Lucy

    One thing to consider and is interesting is that we are attracted to people who are like us. We feel comfortable. They just ‘get us’ immediately. The problem with being with someone like us personality wise is there is no dynamic, nothing interesting to keep things going; there also could be competition–instead of working as a team, you’re competing against each other. Two warriors is an example, they are competing for power.

    In my opinion, personality type is only one piece. If the person is right for you from a personality type, but is immature and would not make a good partner, then the personality type match is irrelevant. To me, maturity and masculinity is much more important.

    Here’s more info, this is how to flatter each personality type:

    Warrior: recognize their Power
    Lover: ask them to tell you a story
    Queen/King: ask them for advice
    Magician: ask them to perform



  255.  #255life_is_too_short_to... on September 14, 2010 at 6:03 am

    249 ahhh i see what you are saying about contradictory messages, Ragnell.

    i have had those thoughts myself, like, how exactly are these not strategies ? even is she says they are different from strategies. How is practicing these tools not over-functioning ?

    Also, there are way too many unknown variables involved in the dance of relationship to narrow it down to a cause and effect set of techniques.

    That being said, I am finding many of the suggestions and tools to be helpful to me to snap me out of negative self-talk and patterns that we inherit from our families, societal programming and conditioning.

    The most important thing, no matter how one does it, is to realize that the sense of joy, the happiness, the peace, the love that seems to be generated from the man, the love object, is but a reflection of what is already always within you. although we keep looking outside of ourselves for it. and when we think we have it, we start scrambling for ways to keep it and not lose it. Is that any way to live?

    I think that Rori’s programs offer ideas to “fake it til you make it” in that at some point you really and truly believe you already have everything you could need or want, and a relationship is the icing on the cake.

    best to you

    Life



  256.  #256Denise on September 14, 2010 at 6:13 am

    #252

    I totally agree with your awesome post Life…it doesen’t take that long either before you ‘make it’. But it does mean doing things that are different and may feel counterintuitive. At some point, I think one has to let go and not think about the merits of doing things differently, and just DO IT.



  257.  #257Denise on September 14, 2010 at 6:16 am

    Has anyone read today’s newsletter email from Marc Evan Katz? SO RIGHT ON!



  258.  #258life_is_too_short_to... on September 14, 2010 at 6:28 am

    i did see it, Denise, and I agree it is very right on.

    His pulling away, his “not being that into you”…It’s not about taking it personally, or about you not always acting the right way.

    Sometimes the guy just doesn’t WANT to, for whatever reason. If I start to over-analyze and be his therapist, that is definitely over-functioning and may also lead to resentment, and what a waste of time, and….life is…well, you know…

    I had to walk away from the current imaginary relationship. It took me ten months to do it, but only because it is one of those blockbuster challenges and I was TKO’ed pretty bad by the love bug. It still hurts a lot, but I’m doing much better because of Rori and all the awesome people on this blog.

    Thanks for your comments on my post to Ragnell



  259.  #259Denise on September 14, 2010 at 6:32 am

    I’m so glad you read it Life…always fun to share! It was sooooo simple–bottom line, it’s about the man’s actions, that’s what counts. When I find myself going down a path of excuses and reasons, I pull myself out and ask myself to look at his actions.

    I’m not saying this is easy, especially when you like someone. But at some point, it’s like “ENOUGH!”.

    I also think this goes hand in hand with Rori’s instructions about CD’ing.

    I also just thought, it’s also about PATIENCE. His email talks about weeks…to LEAN BACK, let him drive the boat (sound familiar) and be Patient (that’s us!)



  260.  #260life_is_too_short_to... on September 14, 2010 at 6:37 am

    Yes, I unleashed some anger on him for stringing me along, but…I allowed it. I liked how he made me feel beautiful and sexy, the attention. But then I would get angry at myself for accepting just crumbs.

    The last thing I texted to him was feeling messages.

    I feel frustration, like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

    I don’t feel that things are very real or honest between us.

    I don’t want to pursue a romantic relationship with you now, regardless of distance, it would be a disaster. Don’t feel like being that close anymore either.

    It bothers me when you accuse me of ignoring and avoiding you when I don’t return a call.

    Now I am letting go of all of it, trying to interrupt thoughts about him with other things, and a rubber band on my wrist, (it is TOUGH!) and as Rori said, put him on my horse and keep riding.



  261.  #261Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 7:14 am

    “Don’t have it until you know EXACTLY where a man stands in the “relationship,” what sex means to him – and HE knows where YOU stand and what sex means to you.”

    Of all your posts about sex, Rori, this one resonates with me the most …

    Can we know which man is going to be the one to marry us? Yes, by waiting until he does marry us. Until then, at least for now, I feel content NOT having sex and I stay fully in my power.



  262.  #262AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Life-

    Thank you for your post #252. Very well said.



  263.  #263Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 7:21 am

    BarbinOz,

    I’d love for you to join us on the call …



  264.  #264AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Ragnell,

    I hear how upset you are. I am wishing I knew how to respond more eloquently.

    It sounds like you are reading Rori’s words differently than I am. I have benefited so much from her insight and her tools. I know how hard it was for me accept her advice and tools because they were so AGAINST everything I was as a woman. And I was successful at getting men and felt very empowered as a woman. No one would ever see me as a doormat.

    But I failed when it came to the next steps in my relationships.

    Because I had reached a point where I just didn’t understand, I was motivated to try Rori’s way, and I saw that I routinely overfunctioned and was a cactus and many other things.

    Not everyone makes the same mistakes. I don’t know why or how you came to find Rori, or what it is you are seeking here.

    From your comment it sounds like you operate more from a Diva place. That’s great!

    I remember you texting your guy that you loved him,

    For some of us, that would be a mistake. We don’t all start from the same place.

    You are angry, yes. And you feel cheated? Or manipulated?

    Rori gives away SO MANY tools – for free – in her eletters. I really appreciate how she doesn’t just market, but includes something for us to try. And I have learned so much being here on her blog. I am grateful that she doesn’t charge a fee for us to participate in this community.

    I wish I had some way to make you less angry. I don’t. I wish I had some way to help you get what you want, but I am not sure what that is.

    Is there anything I can do to help?



  265.  #265Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 7:29 am

    On the topic of so-called “imaginary” relationships, last night I did a session with a guy who has been very frustrated because he’s always been a “dreamer” with fantasies of meeting his perfect woman and living happily ever after …

    … and he’s super frustrated because he can’t seem to bring that vision into reality …

    sound familiar, anyone? 😉

    I did some integration work with him, grounding him into his body, and we could both literally feel our spines grounding into the earth, almost like the gravitational force increased …

    Lo and behold, where previously he had been going off into dissociated “tangents” (during which he was disconnecting from me) … suddenly there was space between his words, and it was easy to stay connected with him in real time.

    He was like a different person after a couple rounds of HBR.

    I feel curious how this will play out in his results with women … I predict a marked improvement.



  266.  #266suzie crebbin on September 14, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Hi guys, as yet I have not used any tools from rori, reading most of these comments has made me feel very unsure of the next step for me, i am so unhappy with my marraige and have been for 7yrs, this year its 30yrs, i really feel i have nothing to celebrate, there is nothing there on both sides, please someone help me make a decision to go with the program or not…Suzie



  267.  #267lm on September 14, 2010 at 8:05 am

    i am excited for the teleclass. it’s going to be awesome!



  268.  #268Jasmine on September 14, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Ragnell,

    RE: #245 – Rori is NOT mercenary. Look at this blog! Look at all the time she spends writing daily eletters and thread articles for this blog, and sharing with us within the blog. She doesn’t get any money for that.

    One time I bought one of her programs. I mentioned to her staff after the initial 30 days that I felt disappointed in it. I wasn’t even asking for a refund, and they got straight back to me, saying Rori wanted to give me a refund.

    You are not censored. You have a right to say whatever you want. But why not email melanie@coachrori.com, her assistant, which she welcomed people to write in the thread on your squeeky voice?



  269.  #269Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 9:25 am

    I want Ragnell to come back to talk to us more about how she is feeling and why she is feeling that way. I don’t want her to run away before giving us the opportunity to help her, offer some understanding, or understand where she is coming from a little bit better.

    I personally downloaded the e-book first, and while i got some interesting concepts out of it, and it created a new and very broad paradigm, i didn’t feel too much shift. I found the blog after reading the e-book and learned most everything I know and practice on the blog! THEN I finally watched rori programs, which just reinforced what I had learned from the blog. It was a nice refresher/reminder.

    Overall, I learned the most from Rori’s generous free materials here.



  270.  #270Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Dorothea,

    What you said to Ragnell is very kind. I listened to Rori’s CDs while I was at work over and over, and it transformed my life! It really is true that it comes to fruition through baby steps. I have been working her tools for 1.5 years now, and I’m still learning!

    I knew about the blog, but I didn’t plug in until April 2010. I wish I had plugged in sooner! But listening to her on the CDs has become like listening to a gentle, loving friend, coaching me in my ear, calming all these crazy thoughts that try to race through my mind!

    And Tinque taught me to put the crazy voices in the corner and give them a cookie! I smile every time I think of that! My time with Rori and this blog has speeded up my emotional and social growth exponentially!!



  271.  #271Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Lizzie, I can teach you the art of arching your back -and moaning fearlessly in appreciation- while your masculine man pleasuring you. Simply just be femininely uninhibited and receive and let him lead. He’ll be addicted to you because he feels all man! 😀 Anyone wants to arrange a teleclass on this? LOL…

    Erika, the irony is, perhaps, I feel that you might have VG hooked to you like crazy if you didn’t hold off sex (have you spent time together again after the first night?). That’s how a man fall in love completely with a woman. It’s simple truth. SG told me he could never be with a woman with whom the sex wasn’t inspiring (neither can I) so I can understand your beau’s reservation, especially if he has so many options when it comes to women as my beau does.

    But of course that shouldn’t precede the values you strongly uphold. I just feel what a waste of time to wait around when two people who are very into each other could actually form a meaningful connection much quicker if they could negotiate to meet each others’ needs somehow sooner.



  272.  #272Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 10:25 am

    And oh Brenda, we’re going to need you as a model in our teleclass and can you help arrange it too? Thanks.

    😀



  273.  #273Apple Jacks on September 14, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Kat, if you hold a teleclass on that, I would most certainly attend. 🙂



  274.  #274Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Haha, AJ your early bird registration is duly noted. Brenda, take that!

    The secret is simple: just relax, be in the moment, let your inner porn diva shine and tell him in a graphic out-of-breath feminine voice -or sometimes a restrained/choked scream- trying to stay “sober” amid these blows after blows of carnal pleasure he’s inflicting on you of how much a man he is. How feminine he’s making you feel. How much you love being in a woman when his mouth and tongue is savoring your most feminine part -and you are completely wide open for him-, when he’s all over you tasting every inch of your body. How he’s growing bigger and harder inside you. And so forth, etc…

    He went nuts over these.

    Any more question?

    😉



  275.  #275Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Katarina,

    You mean I could model the arching my back and moaning part? 🙂 Or would you like me to model giving head? Or perhaps doggy style? LOL! Let me think about organizing it…I don’t want to get overcommitted.



  276.  #276Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Katarina,

    What do you do when you have a climax simultaneously? LOL! 😛



  277.  #277Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Brenda, you will do all of that and more…. I know you’re a horn dog too, so this is to channel your inner porn diva without actually having sex with a man because I gather you’d rather wait until marriage (like all horn dogs would (snark)).

    Maybe we will need Jason to simulate the masculine role part? 😀

    Is that cool?



  278.  #278Apple Jacks on September 14, 2010 at 10:53 am

    “Any more question?”

    *Blush* I think that’s great for now, thanks Kat.



  279.  #279AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Katarina-

    “…actually form a meaningful connection much quicker if they could negotiate to meet each others’ needs somehow sooner.”

    It’s a beautiful statement and very true. I know for me, sexual desires are not always the same thing as needs.

    For me, mind expanding, launch me (and him) into outer space, oh-my-god sex is easy. I have found that the other components are sometimes lost in the tidal wave of connection and pleasure.

    Sex is like an excellent drug. But for me, it’s a shortcut. Yes, I can get to that enlightened place via substances (or sex) and it’s a great way to reinforce that I can get there. But getting there through mediation, or communication ensures that I’m READY to be there.



  280.  #280Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Hi! you ever watch Harry Met Sally? she does that fake orgasm thing at the dining table? well if you do even just a little of that….they love it! Not saying to pretend, saying verbalization and visualization are big turn ons to men!

    @ Amber – did you think about the reframe with your guy?

    @ Katarina – I’ll take your class, go girl, go!



  281.  #281Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 11:04 am

    @ Erika – I feel uncomfortable with you asking Barb to attend the class directly, and I am beginning to feel uncomfortable with the class!!!!! being brought up from one time to two times a day. You will do as you please – but I don’t like it. I also don’t like it that you’re not really HERE – you just pop in with a comment, maybe randomnish, and pop out. Like you wouldn’t know what was going on with me at all, or Ragnell, or anyone who was worried about her…etc. So your comments feel disjointed and kind of startling, in an off context way lately. If you are here, and you are inviting EVERYONE to a conference, can’t you just BE HERE and involved in the for lack of a better word – storyline?

    J



  282.  #282Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 11:05 am

    HEY APPLE JACKS!!! oooh, hooooo…I’m doing handstand cuz apple jacks make me think of jumping jacks!!! HIYA!



  283.  #283Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 11:07 am

    oooooh, I love the inner horn dog snark….
    actually I love snark!

    And it’s funny, cuz I tell stories on here and that’s what Denise said my personality type likes to do?! lol….I hardly ever tell stories in real life….very cool Denise!



  284.  #284Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Brenda, we did the next morning in my hotel when he was dropping me off (he did me 3 hrs straight that night -he said it was because he wouldn’t see me for a while so he held back (tantra, anyone?) and tried to enjoy me as much as he could…he admitted he was greedy-, and again in the morning in his bed and another half hour in my hotel). But he was such a great lover, he always made sure I was ready by going down on me over and over during it.

    We were so loud in my hotel room when we climaxed together I’m sure some people were wondering if a goat or two had been slaughtered where we were. 🙂

    And then he texted me: “Oh baby!!!” after he left. That’s how I knew he was genuinely crazy about me. Only then actually I felt really strong about him and stronger every day. It feels great to be wooed by a handsome man.

    He wanted to see me the next morning before my flight but didn’t happen ’cause it was his son’s first day in school. The next day he was looking for flight arrangement. And next weekend we’ll spend a few days together and prolly up to his friend’s cabin and get to know his 5 year old son as well.



  285.  #285Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 11:10 am

    one more….@ Ragnell if you’re still reading -what I hear is that 1. you were offended and 2. you feel that Rori is selling you a self perpetuating system from which you will never be fully healed/functional/liberated. And yet, it is her business to sell her products, so she will just keep selling them.

    It is up to YOU to decide if you can use them, buy them or – and this is very generous of her – just hang out here and vent about them. You get to decide when you graduate. And unsubscribe?

    Hope you get what you want allways!

    J



  286.  #286tinque on September 14, 2010 at 11:31 am

    May I chime in here on the sex talk? I prefer to be called hussy slut though to horn dog.
    Not all of us are all that vocal during sex, and this absolutely does not deter from the experience at all, for me or him.
    Words interfere with my experience, his too. I find them distracting though I’m fully aware that for some, the words enhance and can be a total turn on.
    As for the moans etc. I have found for me, they can create tension and thus interfere with my orgasm. I’m not saying there is complete silence. Soft thises and thats escape on their own, but I find the more I’m IN my body, feeling and being aware, the more heightened the experience.
    I wanted to say this for any of the women out there who might feel inadequate for being quieter or like they’re not “doing it right”.
    There are plenty of men who DON’T like much noise so much.
    They DO love knowing their woman feels good though, and this is obvious in her facial expressions and in her body movements. A sensitive man can also feel every little pulse she feels, and this is plenty turn on enough.
    xxoo



  287.  #287Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Tingue, surely there are different ways to show how you’re loving it. I’m not always vocal or loud either. But I do love talking dirty and my husband loves it. He always told me, talk to me, baby. But then he would complain “You’re talking too much” LOL…

    SG loves to talk dirty too as he gave me his own narration while we were at it. I think it’s cute.

    My hubby is more of the type in which the blood all goes downstairs so nothing left to sustain his verbal function lol…

    Just be true to yourself and don’t act fake.



  288.  #288Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Thanks for saying that, Tinque. I tend to be more like you in that area — which (for me) may be partially a result of many years of my children being in the next room!

    It’s all good. 🙂



  289.  #289Jason Miller on September 14, 2010 at 11:39 am

    273: Katarina Phang

    I’m just tuning in. What did I miss? You want me to stimulate what part? 😉



  290.  #290Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 11:51 am

    @ Tinque – thanks! absolutely not dissing anyone’s style, my friend tells me no noise sex can be one of the most intense things ever! and the only guy who ever talked me through it? drove me to ….ummmm Jason! look away…..faking. har…

    So, Jason all tied up?

    xo,
    j



  291.  #291Jason Miller on September 14, 2010 at 11:54 am

    286: Jacqueline

    Who’s all tied up? 🙂



  292.  #292Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Hi Jacqueline, it’s me, your favorite person on this blog (haha). It seems to me that Erika said to Barb, simply and kindly, “I’d love for you to join us on the call” because she read Barb’s comment to Lizzie:

    “I am thinking of trying to get into Erika’s class on Sunday about this self limiting stuff, what do you think? I don’t even know what a teleclass is, but we have about 5 days to find out…”

    …and wanted to encourage and welcome her to do so.



  293.  #293Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Jason, it’s SIMULATE…but if you want to stimulate Brenda, you can ask her privately. I don’t think there should be any objection from my part.



  294.  #294Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    OMGosh!!! lol rofl lmao….I totally wondered when he was gonna get that…..okay, Jason we want to stimulate your…..mind!

    Love,
    J



  295.  #295Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Jacq, his male brain is already soooo overly stimulated by this girlie talk of ours. 😀



  296.  #296Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Katarina, LOL!!!!!! 😀



  297.  #297Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Poor Brenda! Lol!



  298.  #298Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    @ Lucy, hello and thanks for not shortening my name! well, it’ll be like next day midnite for her if I”ve finally got my timeline down? and you know – it just feels escalating and isolating…heee PUA terms….since this is the first time a personal invitation’s gone out. Like I said – to Erika – and yes, it bothers me when you answer for other people, thanks for acknowledging it in advance…she will do as she pleases.

    I would like her to be more involved here, though. Miss her energy and hate the disonnect feeling with the sudden burst posts.



  299.  #299Jason Miller on September 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    289: Katarina Phang
    290: Jacqueline

    Well, the brain is the sexiest organ in the body.

    So do what do you want me to SIMULATE exactly?



  300.  #300Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Katarina! do you mean we are making his head big? OMGosh….I’m done now….gotta stop snorting my coffee!

    xo,
    J



  301.  #301Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Haha, I’m loving this conversation so much I needed to change my avatar. My shy, private side kicks in.



  302.  #302Jason Miller on September 14, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    291: Katarina Phang

    Yes, I’m awash in a sea of female sexual energy. 🙂



  303.  #303Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Hi, Jason and there you are again….lol…you are the ravishing male model we are going to use totally in our lovemaking advanced tantric how to move on…… movie on set/conference call!. And yep, your brain oughtta be what turns you on….and I soooo wasn’t gonna do this, but am having fun!

    (don’t mind me, I’m just watching)



  304.  #304Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Jason, did you read??? Sheeessshhh…. Scroll up, baby. See how much noble willingness to educate us Brenda has and she needs a masculine role in the act and I can’t see any other male here (should we offer this to Jonathon or Evan too?). Or Jacq, maybe you need to put that strap-on to use!!! How long has it stayed in your drawer?

    And which head are you talking about? Please be specific.



  305.  #305Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Jacqueline, the reason I shortened your name the other day is because I was typing it on my phone — which is not only harder to type on, but also limits the number of characters I can use per post. I am sorry it offended you.

    As far as “answering for other people” — I don’t see it in those terms at all — I see this as an open forum, open dialogue — not a private, two-way conversation.

    After all, Erika’s comment was addressed to Barb, yet you felt free to jump in.



  306.  #306Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Quick lunch post …

    @Katarina, didn’t ask for advice, thanks, VG and I are doing just fine and he’s plenty hooked on me … thanks in advance for respecting my right to make choices that feel good to ME …

    @Jacqueline, I hear unmet needs … for community … for connection … and, like I said, I wish there were two of me right now … I’ve done eight 90-minute HBR sessions in the last two days, and that’s on top of my day job and taking care of my house in Tahoe … so I request some patience and empathy, please, thank you 🙂



  307.  #307Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    awwww, Katarina….I never could get it to work so I just cut the dang straps off! it’s just….gotta quit laughing!!!! and go to work!!

    How to send distance Reiki, that’s where my mind is….har….



  308.  #308Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Lucy – I jumped in to speak to Erika! but okay, yes, you too shall do what you please –

    and yeah, Erika that’s what I was feeling – like if you’re gonna be here I want all of your fiery, snappy, whirling dervish energy here! and I know it’s a big time for you, so just thanks – that felt good to be heard!



  309.  #309Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    My other CD who signed his email with “your fan” just sent me a text:

    “I am enraptured by your body, your voice, the way you move, everything about you.”

    Oh boy, what can a girl do in this situation? I’m basking in all this attention. He’s one of the best lovers I know as well.



  310.  #310Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    @ Katarina….why his big head of course! and that my darling is as specific as I can get….and wow, look what the anonymity of being just another flower has done to me!!!! ack!

    Peace and luv…and sex, drugs and rock and roll….take what you need….even if it’s just a smile….

    gotta run!
    J



  311.  #311Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Send it to me, Jacq. I need it to calm my jittery mind…too much stimulation today! 😉



  312.  #312Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I make lots of noise. I like to, it’s fun. I love hearing myself talk, so hearing myself make noise in bed is fun for me too:P

    A while back, feels like ages ago, I stopped having sex with my LI. I was feeling insecure and needy, and didn’t want to have sex any more. Having sex was making our connection worse, not better. So we began fooling around without sex, and I knew that I wouldn’t be ready to sleep with him again until I felt like I could look him in the eyes between the sheets and feel safe to bare my soul like that.

    In the meantime, moaning and making sounds was kind of a barrier…it kept me from allowing space for him to move to the next level of intimacy, and it kept things light and fun.

    One night, I decided to just be completely silent. To see what would happen if I just listened to my body, instead of giving him something to listen to.

    Mountains moved. He looked me in the eye. He looked at me carefully and with tenderness. He handled me sweetly, like I was entirely precious. This was new to me with him. I stayed quiet, and let my body talk for me. I felt safe to sleep with him and let go and enjoy it. A few hours afterward, he declared his love for me for the first time.

    Quiet can be very very good!



  313.  #313Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Yes, and I jumped in to speak to you! Lol!



  314.  #314Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Dorothea, wow! that’s beautiful, thanks for sharing.



  315.  #315Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Erika, Katarina didn’t actually give you advice! OMG MIRROR. OMG VEILED ANGER

    i hope you can appreciate the humor here. 😀



  316.  #316Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    katarina, what’s up with your husband? where’s he at these days?



  317.  #317Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Thanks, Dorothea for channelling my deepest thought :). But I didn’t want to sound like hers truly so I kept it to myself.



  318.  #318Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Dorothea, my husband is busy juggling so much. So he’s in his cave most of the time. And I lean back as much as I could. I don’t call anymore. He will have to do that.

    In fact I don’t care that much anymore. I have too many adoring men to be concerned.

    A girl gotta do what she gotta do to stay centered. Dating has helped a lot.



  319.  #319Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I feel so happy to hear you are dating and worrying about your own happiness and centeredness. Life is way too short to let romantic circumstances dictate the quality of our experience on the planet, isn’t it?



  320.  #320Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Yes, Dorothea, exactly. You take care your own needs first and take the pressure off him.

    I’m a bit apprehensive though, what if SG and I fell madly in love after our weekend together? It made me cry last night just thinking about it. How am I going to handle this: having to choose between the man of my past or my future to whom I’m equally attracted to? I’m going to break someone’s heart and that feels icky to me.

    Can a woman be in love with two men at the same time?

    Whoa…what a “great” dilemma that would make. I guess, I’d need Rori’s advice in time: how to handle two guys you equally love when both are wanting you.

    Okay, back in the moment….don’t get ahead of yourself, Katarina.



  321.  #321Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    I feel so grateful and relieved. I came VERY close to allowing a man to come to my house — and it turns out he probably would’ve become a stalker and very scary! I am so glad he doesn’t know where I live. I feel glad God protected me. I feel glad I trusted my uncomfortable feelings enough to hold back. I feel bad that he is now saying bad things about me. But so glad to know his true colors now rather than later!



  322.  #322Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Ewwww … feels catty, Kat :p



  323.  #323Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Mirror…mirror on the wall, Erika? 😉



  324.  #324Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    i will battle erika until the end of time. it is so epic. we are giant she-nephilim on our own tiny petit prince-like planets, rising miles above the dirty into outer space. We wear galaxies for hats and chuck young stars at each other.

    saying ewwww to someone is pretty freakin rude, isn’t it?



  325.  #325Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    *miles above the dirt into outer space



  326.  #326Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    I’m not jumping into the fray, but I just have to tell you, Dorothea, I felt electrified and delighted by the poetry!



  327.  #327Lucy on September 14, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    I like “dirty” better! It works as a noun, like “the good, the bad and the ugly” 🙂



  328.  #328Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Okay, I’m trying to lean back today by not initiating text messages to SG -and call to my cop CD who now wants to resist the temptation and be a “good man”.

    Time for lunch and focus on my writing again.

    Dorothea, love your witty repartee and your no-nonsense approach.



  329.  #329AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Lizzie…?

    How are you doing today?



  330.  #330Dorothea on September 14, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Thanks so much Lucy! I always feel this objective sense of respect from you towards me, even when we don’t agree or we’re challenging each other in some other way. It feels amazing to contemplate this. Thank you!



  331.  #331Apple Jacks on September 14, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    *Giggle* Thanks for the heads up Jacqueline.

    Dorothea, you are awesome! 😉



  332.  #332AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Jacqueline,

    Thank you for the reframe 🙂 I am feeling my way through this, but also thinking my way through it. It would be easy to distract myself (via sex, for starters- am I the only woman who does this!?!?!) and just let things progress as they have been.
    BUT
    I want to go forward being fully conscious. I want to be my very best me. And I’m giving myself permission to feel all of this, and yet be strong enough to let it go, if that turns out to be the right choice. I love him too much to stay on a temporary basis knowing he wants forever, and I love me too much to make the forever commitment without knowing I will honor it.

    I sent him what I posted here. We’ll talk about it when we’re together next week. In the meantime we’ll just continue to be wildly, passionately, crazy in love with each other.



  333.  #333AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I am really excited/nervous/scared/ecstatic about going deeper with him. I believe we are capable of growing and deepening and becoming ultimate.

    I don’t get to make that choice for him. I will love him either way, but I’m going to keep growing. This may or may not be with him.

    I love how amazing and limitless the future is. I love how free I feel letting go of my fear and my desire to control, my need for any certain outcome…



  334.  #334tinque on September 14, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    This is so awesome Amber…YAY!!!
    xxoo



  335.  #335BarbinOz on September 14, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    #288 Lucy

    No I didn’t feel offended or pressured by Erika’s invitation. I will try but I am not sure of the time zone thing just yet. And honestly I am the type of person if I don’t want to do something………well I just don’t do it!!



  336.  #336Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Katarina! You are funny, woman! LOLOLOLOL! Nah, I’m not a horn dog…I’m a sensual, passionate mermaid! And, yes, altho I love sexxx, I am saving it for marriage this time…

    Tinque, RE: #282 – Beautifully said! I tend to be more quiet, and sometimes I like to just say my man’s name. Or sometimes I like to be silent and imagine being an ocean cave, with the tide rushing in…and then becuming one with my man. When I was with Ryan, and more in love than I’ve ever been, I spontaneously said to myself, “It’s HIM!”

    Simple kissing and caressing was never so arousing to me, simply because I was truly in love with him.



  337.  #337Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Katarina, RE: #289 – KATARINA!!! BEHAVE!!!! LOL!



  338.  #338Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    KATARINA!!!!!! Re: #300 – “See how much noble willingness to educate us Brenda has and she needs a masculine role in the act…”

    HOW ON EARTH DID I GET MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS…THIS….THIS….WILD SEXY INSINUATING SILLINESS?!?!?! LOL!



  339.  #339Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Dorothea, RE: #308 – That is a beautiful post, from beginning to end! Wow!



  340.  #340Katarina Phang on September 14, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Brenda, you started it, girl…with the head, doggie style and whatnot…you hussy bitch (instead of horn dog). 😀



  341.  #341Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Katarina,

    I thot Tinque was the hussy bitch. I don’t get to be a sensual, passionate mermaid? 🙂 Shucks! Oh, I was trying to hide it that my horns hold up my halo!



  342.  #342tinque on September 14, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Nope Bren, hussy slut. Big difference. And a horn dog and/or hussy slut can very easily be a sensuous, passionate mermaid too.
    I have the mermaid fingernails to prove it.
    xxoo



  343.  #343Brenda on September 14, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Tinque,

    What do mermaid fingernails look like? Ocean blue? That’s Lucy’s favorite!



  344.  #344tinque on September 14, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    yeah kind of like ocean blue with a bit of sparkly in it.
    xxoo



  345.  #345Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Hi there sirens – I didn’t sleep much last night, never the less I feel strangly at peace. Thank you so much for asking.

    I am happy about the significant emotional reaction because I had no idea I was holding that pain within myself. And to be able to identify it at the core – fear. OMG!



  346.  #346Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Anyone ever dated a Cancer-man?
    I am reading up on them – I always got along well with Cancer men – I am Scorpio. Interestingly, it pretty much says on all their love style profiles that the woman virtually has to bang them on the head and drag them into the cave and claim them as their own. Pretty opposite to Rori’s rules.

    Another thing – I joing eH about 4 weeks ago. I have been matched with about 50 new men since then. The ONLY guy who contacted me lives in the USA – now really, as if that is going to work….

    Anyway, so much for men looking for women….



  347.  #347Vulpine on September 14, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Thanks so much Tinque, I understand completely about looking for the love in what he is DOING, versus the words. I’m talking more about the fear of getting involved sexually too soon, before I am sure how over the moon he is, or having him suddenly get distant (as they can sometimes do).

    It’s so fascinating how many different choices there are, as far as getting sexual early on versus waiting. I have gone both ways in the past and I think in the future I will be on the slower track. Sex can be a shortcut to intimacy but it can also give you the ILLUSION of intimacy before you really get to know someone deeply. At least, that’s been my experience.

    PS: Put me in the hussy mermaid column please, but no “bitch”, please. I prefer to be called “particular”.



  348.  #348Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Lizzie,

    Cancer is a feminine sign. If/when they pursue the idea is they do it sideways, the way a crab walks to his destination.
    If you like cancers and you’re a Scorpio I say do it. Scorpio women are notoriously masculine(on the inside) but appear to be super sweet vulnerable gooey feminine……
    You might get a kick out of Mirror of Aphrodite blog….if you google those it should come up easily and once there she’s written on the zodiac -men and women being separate. The scorpio female article is very interesting…… (I was raised by a clan of scorpions:)
    Disclaimer: astrology is full of limiting beliefs but very stimulating archetypes. I like what Abraham hicks says about the zodiac…..however……I squirm around cancer men 🙂
    I like bulls myself….amongst other things.



  349.  #349Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    And there are other planets at work in everyone’s chart so there may be the odd crab who is super assertive because of his mars……blah,blah,blah…..I’m going to stop now …. 😉



  350.  #350Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Hi, Nikita….so I’m Capricorn but with a scorpio moon sign and no one alive ever believes I’m Capricorn…lol….they all think I’m Scorpio – whoo hoooo hot sex Lizzie! What do you think about moon signs??

    J



  351.  #351Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Hi Everyone!!!! just posted on Reiki distance healing and energy exchange(s)….and put a different picture – anyone???? out there…..wanna tell me what they think?!!!! please and thank you!

    xo,
    J



  352.  #352Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    oooh, and I was gonna get picked up for a prof. blog site but they blew me off when I would not give them sole content rights – I said I had to be able to post what I wrote on my own site.

    Thoughts?

    j



  353.  #353Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    thanks Nikita – that is quite helpful. Family Guy is a cancer and very busy. I give him a ton of space at the same time, if I send him a little smile or how is life little note, he seems to respond by asking me out or something to that effect. I haven’t come out directly and asked to get together other than to play golf. Another of my male buddies is a Cancer and he loves to be called up by a lady – although he does have a very clear distinction about what is a call for a date and what is needy. He hates needy! And Family Guy is the 50% dad of his girls – one of whom is completely disabled. Another thing I find interesting is his interest in my kids – if they are in pain, he want to know all is fine. And tender – wow! I really love it.

    Taurus – oh yeah – incredibly physical type! the two that I had dated had incredible stamina. They also tend to really lock-on to their view of the world – tough to move them once they are locked.



  354.  #354Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Yup – I have had great relationships with Cancer, Taurus, Capricorn. I also seem to attract Aries – had numerous relationsips with Aries but they can be real airheads. I can walk away totally bewildered. too funny. I don’t do well with Aquarius generally – ok as girlfriends but not the men – too much water I think.



  355.  #355Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Jacqueline – you need to be able to keep ownership of your stuff. Always and forever.



  356.  #356Erika Awakening on September 14, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Dorothea,

    Yes, I felt the humor. I actually feel touched that my “veiled anger” comments from a few posts back resonated enough to continue to be used now …

    And I tell ya, I did the same thing with a guy where communication was totally blocked … I called out the veiled anger, and things are starting to open up …

    And, wow, I have my first evening off in a long time … and intuition says … send a few emails and then rest … so probably more meditation for me.

    Jacqueline, I feel touched that you felt heard. I feel touched that it sounded like I was missed here when I got busy, at least by some people. Lol 😉

    love,
    Erika



  357.  #357Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Lizzie

    I checked the blog and it seems they’ve gone poof 🙁

    Her site takes so long to load so I don’t know if they’re posted anywhere else but I guess it’s not meant to be…..



  358.  #358Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Lizzie… Lol

    Taurus and the old locked and loaded m.o.
    I try to sidestep that part of the bull ( but my Venus is in cancer so….) I feel a little chatty and curious about how connected my libido is to food and chivalry….. I’d guess it’s the cancerian in me…… Sweetums just mixed up some hot sauce and feta dressing…. I was all over his plate…. Stealing pieces of chicken and dipping them….. And then I started rubbing my leg on his chair!!!! This is such a theme in my life………and if a man I like feeds me….omg!!!!! I melt at the table…… Feed me cheese a cheese plate or a scrumptious desert and it’s very possible I turn into the kissy monster. I LOVE being fed…… And kissing a man during dinner….. After the first bite if it’s good…..I lean way over the table to get my kiss 🙂
    I actually feel super aroused!
    Soooooooo…… Are you feeding family guy? 😉



  359.  #359Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    I don’t mean cooking for him….I mean sharing your dish….and spoon feeding….. Plus I like sitting next to my date…..across the table is ok but if I’m next to…..it’s that sideways thing again…. I feel more secure and connected….like “team us”



  360.  #360Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    OH Nikita – he fed me!
    On our second date, he ordered every appetizer on the menu. We had this huge table of delictables and he cut stuff up and fed it to me. On our 4th date after playing golf – he was to make dinner for me. He said he was marinating steaks – and I told him sadly I don’t eat red meat, but that it was ok I would nibble and eat all the other stuff. Not got for him! He stopped at 2 grocery stores on the way back to his place to find just the right bit of Salmon – and then cooked everything just perfectly. And he kept kissing me all through dinner – I thought that was so cute!

    Soooo…. I am guessing food is an important thing for you cancer types? My other man friend just loved looking after me as well.



  361.  #361Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    OH yeah! he was busy dragging his chair around to sit right beside me.



  362.  #362Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    and massage!



  363.  #363Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I needed to borrow tools so I offered a massage – well, he couldn’t get here fast enough – too funny. He just loved it!!! I have a massage table – he couldn’t believe it – said I was amazing. I know, I took a course and had a really good instructor. Before the massage, we talked about how we felt massage was more intimate than sex in many ways and that it was important that the feeling of connection was there so that it could be spiritually fulfilling for me as well.

    So now I am wondering if I seem to be ok with this guy – I don’t get to see him very often.



  364.  #364AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Erika just wishes there were two of her because she’s poly-curious. Bah!

    Reiki… is… AMAZING.

    I’m just stopping by to change clothes & head out for my walk.

    Things are moving… shifting… leaving…

    Jacqueline- Scorpio Moon. Okay- that explains a lot. Me too 😉 What’s your rising?

    Lizzie- You sound great today (and your posts feel good to read, too). My guy and the guy before him? Both Cancers. Just don’t put me in the same room with a Pisces man. One of us will leave in a body bag. Three guesses which one.

    I dated a guy once who shared my sun/moon/rising and it was beyond freaky into twilight zone. Same EVERYTHING, right down to brands of toothpaste and flatware pattern. And he lived in a house that was the same design as mine, 100+ miles from mine, built in 1919. In Paso Robles, actually. Hrm. I wonder if Erika knows him…

    It got boring because we never had to speak. Never argued. Made for smokin’ hot sex, but sooner or later you get tired of looking in the mirror…



  365.  #365Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Hi Jlina 🙂

    I just saw your post…..moon signs are very linked to how we do relationships…….moon in Scorpio would be an intense placement……very emotional….and when angered possibly very destructive …….. I could see the moon eclipsing your cap sun….. But cap rules corporations and I see you as a very enterprising woman…… I’m going to go explore this reiki post you’ve spoken of..



  366.  #366Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Thank you Nikita!
    ..hugs to our intrepid brave Amber!

    and you know in the spirit of total integration I’m just gonna quit holding out on my all the way live/wild nickname and get Ms. Rori to change it…

    waves at Lucy!

    ps – the stalker thing was scary story, I kind of felt vulnerable like that when my computer crashed – not as bad, but I get it! I was scared to death to let a man know I lived in a house alone! but I moved here in part because the police show up in like 2 minutes….hoooray! and I had a gun….so once or twice I took the plunge. But I feel you on the very scary part! sorry….



  367.  #367Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    ps…Erika I wrote you wishing you luck with all the stress that even fab. change brings, and yes, I am glad to hear you here sounding connected again. That’s great! I also wanted to tell you I got EFT down under Steve Well’s program and he works with the founder of EFT – have you heard of him? What do you think? Amazing website!

    I shall be a new siren/goddess/diva soon….

    mysterious,
    j



  368.  #368Jlina on September 14, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    name change….Rori get me out of moderation???
    and hugs to you – you all – have you posted on my author’s thread about Rori on Amazon???? Very cool! Congrats to Rori and a bottle of….well, what would Rori drink? lol….

    Jlina



  369.  #369Jlina on September 14, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    ahem…well, it was anticipated???? it went right on through! so yall, really, lets support Rori on Amazon – just find new book, look for author’s page and I started a thread….

    and a movement called the Thank you Rori movement!!!



  370.  #370Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    Lizzie,

    I love feeding my men(lovers)…..I would sit with moon eyes watching them eat…..entranced….. Just feeling good….feeling my head fill up with some happy horny adoration chemicals or something….and if you don’t eat!!!!!! Be prepared for hell! I dumped two guys for not eating with me(cd’s) …. I felt furious! And lost interest in them…. But that’s what keeps me into the Taurus man…they are all about food!!! I love it!!!!! I can spend hours shopping for food it’s like foreplay for me. I am not surprised he got salmon for you……. I would’ve shelved the steak idea gladly for a lover…. I just love the idea of my partner enjoying their food. I cannot stress this enough!! I like shoving food in their mouth and then sealing it with a kiss…..rinse and repeat 🙂
    And then a bath!!!!! And a massage….. And a little fruit bedside …..whoa…… Sigh…..
    Cancers do have shells……. And rubbing that muscle is great……they’re feelers. My bull cares not for massages but I give great ones 🙂



  371.  #371Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Nikita I have such a goddess image of you feeding your man…so lovely!

    I know my cancer guy LOVES food and LOVES massages! And he is by far the tenderest most careing lover I have ever had in my life. I actually told him that – and he just stands in the doorway grinning from ear to ear.

    So why isn’t he sending me messages !!!????



  372.  #372Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Yeah, yeah he is a feeler. I asked how he knew what his daughter needed or that she is happy. He said “oh, I just have a feeling”



  373.  #373Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    And those bulls, they want full body contact! too funny, completely wrapped around you just incredible. On the golf course he would just walk up behind me and breathe down the back of my neck – I could feel it that he wanted me right there, in the middle of the fairway – oh he would make me laugh. The my cancer guy started to do the same thing – I wonder if it has something to do with being outside….



  374.  #374Nikita on September 14, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Lizzie…..

    “Why isn’t he sending me messages”

    I don’t know but feeling crabby comes to mind……my cancer friends know I have a joke about them vanishing into their crab cave….they need that me time…..they reflect, pout, veg out, eat ice-cream, hang out in the park…..etc. But as a scorp don’t you need your “space too” 🙂

    Whenever he pokes his head out of the sand I’d just mention how good this peach feels bursting in my mouth! Mwuah-ha-haaaaa lol!!!



  375.  #375Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Actually – my other man-friend would get into incredible funks – and this guy probably does the same. The last time I saw him, his ex had come back looking for more money. I know crabs have a BIG issue just giving over money to someone demanding it. He was very frustrated by it, and he is run off his feet at work. Alright, I will just give it lots of space. Ha – when I posted a bit about his current situation earlier in the week, Johnathon said to RUN!!!! that is usually what I get from people. But I think he is a good guy. I have a pretty demanding life anyway. And I haven’t stopped CDing either.



  376.  #376Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Interesting observation Nikita – I often really want to just go do my own thing all by myself. Sometimes I just really really like the idea that I really want to see someone. It isn’t uncommon for me to organize an event and actually not show up – by the time I have it all organized, I don’t think I am needed any more – afterall I will have brought all these interesting people together so they already know what to do. It is really an oddity about me.



  377.  #377Lizzie on September 14, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    your insights have been really helpful – thanks Nikita



  378.  #378Ragnell on September 14, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Really? Has no one identified how tiranizing Rori Raye’s formula is? Take any email. First, she illustrates something that is perfectly normal and healthy to do. The formula goes like this: [YOUR NAME], have you ever [DONE SOMETHING EVERYONE DOES AND THAT IS MOSTLY IRRELEVANT IN ANY OTHER CONTEXT]? Rori will then state that as the reason why you are not getting any love. It does not matter if you are in a healthy relationship, getting love, and on your natural way to commitment; Rori’s writing will force you to spot a problem where there is none. Then, some action you do is turned into a negative thing; it’s pushing away what you want, you shouldn’t be doing that, that’s why he doesn’t love you, that’s why you’re not being a modern siren, that’s why you’re not getting the realtionship you want.

    Rori does not care if what you’re doing or being is precisely the trait that the man in question loves in you. Rori does not know the man.

    Then, she threatens you that you’ll never find love (even when you are loved), that you’ll never be adored (even when you are!), and that he will never commit (even if you’re both on the natural path of deciding whether or not to be exclusive). She promises that you will, but only if you buy her products.

    Now, the lessons being sold are contradictory. Why? Because she has to convince you that, whatever you do, even if you follow the program, is wrong. That way she can sell you another program to correct it. And when you follow that advice, you’ll feel more alienated and your true personality (that which your man loves) is replaced by a “Siren mentality”. Your womanhood, everything that you are, is replaced with a “Girl energy”.

    The “advice” is designed to put you on guard: Should I do this? Will this get me the relationship I want? Am I doing something wrong according to Rori? Or that? Oh, I’m an idiot, I can’t decide, I better ask Rori… And that’s not healthy.



  379.  #379Ragnell on September 14, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    @Tina
    I did the squeaky voice exercise when it was posted. But, you know? I do not like the description of my voice as “squeaky”. These are my thoughts and I am voicing them. You may perceive my voice in any way, but I am not allowing Rori or anyone in her blog to belittle it by describing it as “squeaky”.



  380.  #380Ragnell on September 14, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    BarbinOz,

    I feel bad because Rori is feeding the emotional abuse, writing things like, and I quote
    __

    He may LIKE it. He may go along with it. He
    may be flattered. He may have no one else around
    and so he’ll date you. He may even come to like
    you very much. You may even end up in a
    relationship with him.

    But, you will never know how he really feels
    about you.

    As long as YOU’RE the one running the show,
    he may follow, but he’ll never feel inspired.

    And, you will never feel adored.

    This is the point where you will find yourself
    up late at night crying and wondering why he
    doesn’t want to commit to you.

    __

    Basically, she’s saying you may have the relationship you want, but unless you get the program to be a modern siren, you’re not allowed to enjoy it.
    This is Bullshit.



  381.  #381Daria on September 14, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Ragnell – for me, compared to other coaches’ e-letters, Christian Carter’s in particular, Rori’s has a lot less “sell to me” and a lot more… heres an actual NEW free thing to try to help you .

    Reading Christian Carter’s i felt scared and hopeless, and I feel empathy with you on this, imagining you feeling much the same way about Rori’s.

    For me, Rori’s e-letters – free, were what i looked forward to every morning when i felt like there was nothing else in my life to make me smile. it was my only excitement and life line of sanity.

    i really feel a lot better about myself now and wiser and more attractive than before using her stuff.



  382.  #382Ragnell on September 14, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Daria,

    I used to receive Christian Carter’s too. Until one day I replied critically to one and I didn’t get any more. You are right, I feel the same way. Maybe with Rori it took me longer. Have you read Doc Love’s answer column in AskMen.com? What this guy does is belittle the men who ask him for advice because they don’t follow his system. Rori didn’t do that for a long time, but now it feels like she is using the same formula: making us feel like we’re not worthy and we’re doing things wrong unless we do things exactly as she says.



  383.  #383Daria on September 14, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    i read a whole different conclusion that you Ragnell.

    To me what she says (and when i started reading her materials, some of those things triggered me and felt bad, and i didnt understand what she was referring to)

    is that

    if WE are the ones taking the LEAD in the relationship,

    we may be IN the relationship,

    but we’re not gonna feel Adored. By our guy. Cuz what women want, (and i didn’t even know i wanted this because I hadn’t realized WHAT i wanted because i was so busy running dramatic patterns and fighting wiht my men) …
    is for their men to show them they love her… and compliment her, and treat her nice, and special, and HIM take the lead.

    And when I for example take the lead, like I did in my current CD situation, I’ll find myself up crying at night, like i jsut did last night, because I realized I had gotten hecka close to a guy who doesn’t even have the same view on kissing and i do, and that wouldn’t have happened if i hadn’t taken the lead, and instead let him pursue me, i would’ve found out early that we have different views on important issues and I wouldn’t have felt my heart breaking last night because

    I pursued a relationship, and then tried to hand him the reins and say, ok now YOU lead,

    which I always do when I actually fall in love, because im a woman and thats what we do, we want him to lead,

    and we’ll even lead up to a point where we suddenly expect him to lead because

    well… we’re here in the relationship Now right.

    and it’s different than if HE had brought us to that level of closeness… instead of us having done the work.

    now he is not used to having the reins. he may not even want them, and i wouldnt know if i had them from the beginning.

    You don’t NEED Modern siren, or any Rori program, to learn to let the man lead. You Do need to learn to let a man lead, if you want to feel adored by him (this happens when he leads, and you like it)

    Rori’s program is great for learning it, for me. But its only one way.



  384.  #384Jlina on September 14, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Hi, Daria – how was you magic man???

    Hi, Ragnell….I’m glad to see you back, felt weird for you just to leave, so I’ll gladly listen to what you want to share!



  385.  #385Daria on September 14, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    By leading a woman may have A relationship with a man, but its NOT going to be the relationship she wants.

    Because what a feminine woman wants is a man who Leads the relationship. We want the guy to Like us. We want him to kiss us, we want him to want to have sex with us.

    We want him to want to put his thang inside us.

    We don’t want to be pressuring him to admit we’re boyfriend and girlfriend, because we spend time together and have sex.

    we dont want to have to convince him to kiss us – at least i dont hallelujah to last nite

    ufff

    i want a man who leads!

    Ragnell, it seems you’re just triggered.

    I trust Rori 100%, she’s definitely not trying a scare tactic or feeding us bullsh*it.

    Her program has raised my self esteem A LOT. and made me so much better at feeling happy, i was really depressed, lost, this wasnt’ even ABOUT relationship. im tlaking life.

    relationship ? iw as casing a man who wanted me as a friend and alife long mistress for the future tho he wasnt even married yet!

    and then now he hasnt even called me when i stopeed going to his house

    how could i have had that man as a husband in that type of situation
    ?

    i wasnt even able to evision having a relationship and family.

    all my lovers were either abusive/fighting or friend/non-boyfriend.

    uff

    its not like that now

    at all.

    everything makes sense, trust it! but not necessarily AT FIRST!

    at first I didn’t get 99% of it.

    i was like huh be feminine? but i am like a boy, thats my trademark

    i just tried one thing at a time, and got hooked and fascinated

    its so much stuff, and i can use it for myself, not just the way rori may have thought of

    mm…
    if anythin on this blog I’m the one who gets accused of getting mad at people for not doing things the way Rori describes

    but she never does that, shes great at compassion

    just keep trying tools! i love how you’re speaking out clearly about how you’re feeling!

    the thing is, you already naturally are doing a lot of the stuff Rori teaches and don’t even know it

    much more than I was when i first found her works



  386.  #386Daria on September 14, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    rori teaches – self empowerment, and having waht you want the way you want it

    if a thought even feels bad , dont believe it.

    shes all about having EVERYTHING you ever wanted with not a drop of feel bad.

    but also loving the feel bad parts.

    and masculine feminine attraction and romance stuff.

    and being treated WELL as woman as the baseline of the relationship

    shes really all about making us feel GOOD, and she doesnt restrict us to using her stuff or HAving to do things a certain way

    she encourages experimenting, to try a diff way, but to pay attention how we FEEL as we do so, so that we learn, not doing it unconsciously



  387.  #387Daria on September 14, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    the thing about the relationship we WANT, is its not about being in A (sucky, bad feeling) relationship with a certain man

    its about having a loving, wonderful feeling relationship with __ A wonderful man___.

    So a woman clinging to a relationship with a guy shes gaga for, is not really having the relationship she wants if its not a loving, fulfilling relationship.

    And if shes the one chasing him down, and making most of teh romantic moves, shes probably not gonna feel like he’s as crazy for her, and the relationship is not gonna feel as fulfilling – not the relationship she wants.

    Rori’s not the only on to figure this out… but her stuff helped me out of all the other stuff out there



  388.  #388Jlina on September 14, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Ragnell, I have a friend who has been using the tools since January and is having very little results with them, she’s going to write about it on my blog soon.

    But, why are you so angry? Do you feel betrayed? Do you just have a different outlook? Is there a message out there that you like better?

    and a lot – maybe most of these letters are written with NLP – neurolinguistic programming in them, so they sound the same, they are scripted the same…and CC’s tell you nothing at all….Rori at least explains some of her stuff. So, I don’t think it is HER formula, from what I understand it is THE formula for the letters from all of the sales sites.

    Still, mostly, I feel like something has really upset you – I hope you can share it or get some resolution and get to a better feeling place!

    Best,
    J



  389.  #389AmberS on September 14, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Jacqueline,

    Thank you. You are amazing. I feel fluid. So much is breaking loose and flowing away.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    Amber



  390.  #390Jacqueline on September 14, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Sweet dreams & angels… on your pillow Amber….and thank you for being a part of my life!

    Night, all….
    Jacqueline



  391.  #391Daria on September 14, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    I’ve been on a Cd all day. A tool i’ve been using is, is this the behavior I want (from a man i am opening up to romantically)… when i would feel overwhelmed by his newness, kissing, wanting to be around me all day, …

    i was like, oh man i gotta go, i cant give him that much time

    but he wanted more time, and i felt overwhelmed

    then moved my focus back to receiving

    then felt good

    kept receiving

    feeling good

    i can feel good with a man around me,

    even when i feel frazzeled in the kitchen, and hes sitting there watching me

    i can feel safe

    i feel impressed at myself and my ability to make this feel like a day in the wonderful relationship for him…

    (my guess. he said he feels like he’s known me forever)

    and for me, staying in that calm peaceful place when my anxieties and “fears of man” surface

    letting go of judgement about his big nose cuz my gf said he wasnt cute

    but he is

    and i can relax around everything and just always be Receiving

    feels so soft

    and i felt kissed

    well.

    i was shutting out the kiss and i remembered… that this is how i want to be treated… and just feel it

    and then it felt good just a lil bit

    and i felt so soft amazing goddess like veils flowing



  392.  #392Daria on September 14, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    now im cooking chicken and he bought me onions.

    i kept noticing my feeling unworthy of being in his presence because im cooking, doing an activity and not entertaining him, the fear that he will get bored, unworthy of being ok, and attractive, even while im doing my daily activity, while im busy

    fear fear

    tat i have to pay attention to him, turn around and see that he’s ok, doing ok, is he gonna be bored? is he thinking ‘man this bi*tch ignoring me, wtf bi*tch”

    mm

    that felt bad and realized its ok to be receiving, its ok to be me, feel the fear, gulping my tummy sometimes, and silence, be silent with my fear that gulps my tummy because theres a man around while im feeling Anxious and washing dishes and my hands are dirty and thats not quite sexy is it

    mmm

    felt scary felt gentle felt awesome felt cool

    hes gonna try to get his moms car to come back cuz he had to give up this car right now

    i told him i didnt want thim to stay over night and then get picked up.

    i feel a lil afraid, like im so relaxed and receiving with him that its like we’re together in a relationship, and close, and well,

    i feel scared

    i just met him

    i feel like this with all my men

    and i feel afraid that im leading him on to think that we are in a relationship by being as awesome and attractive and attentive and open to him as i am being

    like he may think im Really into him

    and im still not sure. that i want to sleep wtih him. i think he’s handsome and i feel good when he kisses me,

    i feel afraid and unsure about sex

    i dont want to have sex

    i feel afraid im not gonna want to have sex with him in the future and im gonna hurt his feelings, because now he really likes me because i’ve been so nice to him

    but i do like the way i feel opening up to him. and he is handsome and i like his body, and i Could have sex with him,

    but i dont know if i like his mind yet. i judge him a lot. but i also am feeling pretty good with him.

    i feel afraid

    i love my feelings

    i feel like i Owe him (what? -) my undying affection right now because I’ve been being nice to him

    help

    this feels confusing and is the strangest feeling in my body with squeezing pouty lips, and thigh hotness…
    i love my feelings

    logicaly i shouldnt owe him becasue im nice to him. he should owe me.

    and he does. h
    hes giving me attention and caring

    it feels nice

    i feel unsure whtehter to have sex with him and im guessing that he wants to later tonite

    i feel afraid



  393.  #393Daria on September 14, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    OHHHH.. i DO want a massage! YES!!!



  394.  #394Daria on September 14, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    “that slutty lil girl, you know shes gonna give it up”

    “not i says the cat”

    both of yall ! hey! i can stop whenever i want to. and i can do it if it feels good.

    its ALL good. and thank you for loving me. and sorry for yelling at you, can you help me deliver my message in a way that feels better next time? thank you! will you help me be more whole? right on

    love yall. and im in charge, and im going for growing bigger and happier to have more compassion to share with you and with the world

    i embrace you and i wont abandon you, i promise.

    thank you for being here with me and for me all this time. yay. now you are free to play and help me in ways that feel really good! and remind me how much i’ve changed in ways that feel really good! and feel Really really good!

    like starting to make music on an everyday level.. yeah!

    we are family! i got all my sister voices with me! yeahy



  395.  #395Vulpine on September 14, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Daria and Ragnell, I agree about Christian Carter’s emails. I’d read and read and be like GET to the thing you are promising you are going to talk about! but he never did. Plus there’s something condescending in them that was a trigger for me. Rori at least gives tools in her newsletters and provides this blog.

    … and Daria, I totally feel you about being unsure whether to get sexual or not. But you don’t owe him anything. What did someone say the other day? “I am a freakin gift to be with!” and just your presence is enough of an offering to him, if you genuinely feel muddled.



  396.  #396girl on September 15, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Ragnell, maybe there are some types of relationship hang ups that aren’t really Rori’s area of expertise that you need help with, and you feel frustrated that you aren’t finding it here??

    I feel that a little – I feel frustrated that the issue of what to do with my own resistance to commitment isn’t really addressed by Rori. Evan Mark Katz does address this problem – he basically says that we ought to think twice before dumping a really nice committed guy, because the sexy alpha male we go weak in the knees for is most likely a playa. But then, I think that he doesn’t understand the feelings that I have for the nice committed guy. That my heart doesn’t GET what my head knows, and how awful it feels to be in such conflict. So, maybe the truth is that these experts don’t have all the answers. They can give us tips for how to avoid heart brake, and they can share tools to be our most authentic selves when we feel uncomfortable, but ultimately we choose our own paths, and nobody can say for sure what’s best. And that does kinda suck. But I don’t blame them for offering the best that they’ve got, and for trying to be compensated for whatever value they do add to our lives. And I have learned a lot from Rori. And I do benefit very much from this blog. I feel like the money I’ve invested in Rori’s program is really nothing compared to what I’ve gained.



  397.  #397girl on September 15, 2010 at 12:34 am

    D did take the job in Boston (before I told him that I wasn’t 100% sure about us, he was planning to turn it down so we could continue to be together). I feel very good that i separated from him while he made this decision. Cause, basically I don’t feel willing to give up my life to move to Boston, and I don’t feel good keeping him here. I think maybe one reason I felt unwilling/unable to connect to him sexually is that I wanted him to make the choice to go. Tonight he said “I just don’t know what you’re thinking…I don’t know how you can just walk away from a guy like me.” I know it’s kind of arrogant, but I actually like that about him. And he’s right – he really is wonderful to me. It will suck to lose him – maybe I’ll decide that I can’t stand to be without him after all. but that’s not where I’m at right now, so I’m very glad that I spoke my truth.



  398.  #398BarbinOz on September 15, 2010 at 3:19 am

    Has anybody got some kind of “junk” email from Dr Paul? Seems “he” knows my name, but the only thing I remember doing is that test on here you know Magician/Lover/whatever?

    WTH do they get our info !!

    Now “he” wants me to go and read all this stuff on his webpage called Womens Happiness……



  399.  #399AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 4:16 am

    Hi Barb!

    The trick is, to take the test, or read the free article (or whatever) they require you to enter your name and email address. So then they spam you, but sometimes it’s useful or interesting info, and you can always unsubscribe 🙂



  400.  #400AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 4:19 am

    girl-

    Whoa. That’s a lot of change. I feel good reading how centered you are about it. I like that you’re giving yourself permission to feel what you feel, and the right to feel differently in the future.



  401.  #401BarbinOz on September 15, 2010 at 4:22 am

    OK Amber, got it!! 😀



  402.  #402Erika Awakening on September 15, 2010 at 6:47 am

    ooooh, the plot of Erika’s life just thickened in a very satisfying way … a personal mantra for myself: “whenever I am tempted to be frustrated or doubt what is happening, whenever I’m tempted to listen to other people’s egoic fears and doubts about MY life, I remember, it’s all happening for a reason, and God has a much more fabulous life planned for me than I could ever plan for myself.” 🙂

    @Ragnell, as a coach, I have been frustrated on both sides of this marketing quagmire. I do NOT like fear-based marketing at all. On the other hand, I feel it is offensive to expect someone like Rori (or myself) to work for free. I feel really irritated when I hear people being critical of a coach because the coach is asking for money for the wonderful offerings he or she is giving to the world. Why should Rori’s work only be valued if it’s free? Why wouldn’t everyone want to support her so that she too can live an abundant life? She has given a lot here, and running these websites and everything that goes with it has a lot of expenses involved with it that the end-user doesn’t often understand or appreciate.

    What I’m moving toward, very experimentally, because so far I haven’t found a satisfying template for it in the internet marketing world … is a really honest approach … yeah, I have “figured something out,” as some of the Sirens here have put it, and I can help people completely change their lives very rapidly. And I’d also like to receive enough compensation for helping people that I can live a fun, abundant life.

    I don’t find the “old” marketing paradigms to be very helpful for this kind of honest approach … mostly they use fear to “cover up” the fact that the coach also needs to get paid … I really don’t want to do that, yet I do want to get paid for my work.

    I like the NVC model, which involves being straight up about the fact that coaches and healers enjoy receiving also … and need to receive if they are going to continue offering their life-changing tools and methods …

    What do you think?



  403.  #403life_is_too_short_to... on September 15, 2010 at 7:01 am

    It helps for me to write these things out, like journaling, and if it can be helpful to anyone else, or if anyone can share similar experiences that can be helpful to me….that is a bonus…

    One evening, three years ago, when I was chatting with a guy i met on e harmony, he asked me about my most meaningful experience of romantic love.

    I told him it was the pure, innocent, unconditional, hormonal, romeo and juliet type of love i experienced for three years as a teenager. We never consummated it, because of religious and societal mores, and so he left me for another girl. I told eharmony guy that i had never experienced love like that again. Over the years, we tried to reconnect a couple of times, but it didn’t take. Now that I think of it, he had some walls around him then, too. Eventually, I had stopped pining for him and thinking about him,
    but always longed for that type of feeling with someone again.

    He asked me if I had kept in touch or knew where he was. I said no. He is a shaman, and he told me his feeling was that I should definitely look him up. I found his profile on facebook, and wasn’t really that drawn to him.

    First I explored a relationship with someone else I had been attracted to for a while. That did not turn out well.

    I decided to try and contact who I will call Long Distance Man (LD for short). He was desperate for me to call him. We spent five hours on the phone the first time we spoke and it didn’t let up from there.

    He drove here to see me, and I was very happy to see him. Those beautiful feelings from almost 40 years ago were re-kindled. We had chemistry. I thought he was too forward, even a bit forceful, but I went along with getting intimate.

    In hindsight, I see that we used our previous emotional connection as an excuse for what I call “instant intimacy”. I did not do my due diligence. It turns out that while we are on the same page about some things, we are not on the same page about a lot of more important things.

    Quickly, existing circumstances and challenges were compounded by even more, for both of us.
    These put a lot of tension and pressure on the relationship. Not to mention the distance factor.
    On a positive note, my challenge provided me with an incredible filter with which to smoke out potential mates.

    By his behavior, I realized that he was only ready for a friends with benefits kind of relationship, intimacy without commitment. I was not comfortable with that and still am not.

    He would not respect my wishes to back off, just be friends who check in every month or so, and then when I saw pictures of him on fb with another woman at a fancy place, i was very hurt and angry.
    I simply don’t want to play second fiddle to another woman. He was being a player.

    I tried to get some distance a few times, but he always got me back into the thick of it, because the good stuff and the memories felt so good, so i made excuses for the bad stuff.

    Finally, I put my foot down, and he got punked when I said put up or shut up. Visit with me in person or no more phone calls (including phone sex). So, I got the distance I want, and it is providing the room for the perspective i want to have. It remains to be seen what he will do. The very cool thing is that, with each passing day, I care less and less. And this is good!!

    I am still not 100% certain if this is a toxic man or just one with toxic qualities due to present circumstances. I am waiting for the Toxic Men CDs to arrive in the hopes that it will help me decide once and for all.

    I think, however, that I am almost at the point where even if I know that these are toxic qualities that I can deal with and maybe even transform, he may still not be the right man for me, and I will be able to be firm in that conviction and CHOOSE to walk away, without looking back.

    Then, there will be the space for my true, most meaningul and lasting relationship to come in.

    Thanks for listening…

    Life



  404.  #404life_is_too_short_to... on September 15, 2010 at 7:10 am

    ooooh, the plot of Erika’s life just thickened in a very satisfying way … a personal mantra for myself: “whenever I am tempted to be frustrated or doubt what is happening, whenever I’m tempted to listen to other people’s egoic fears and doubts about MY life, I remember, it’s all happening for a reason, and God has a much more fabulous life planned for me than I could ever plan for myself.” 🙂

    Fantastic, Erika!

    I agree with what you say about not expecting coaches to provide services for free.

    My honest opinion is that this is a labor of love for Rori, that she is living her dream, and that she should reap the rewards from her work.

    It is up to each “consumer” to sift through all the marketing and advertising triggers and decide for themselves what to take and what to leave, without condemning the marketer. After all, marketing is how the material even becomes available to you to even make a decision whether you think it will be helpful or not.



  405.  #405AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Daria- 388

    I’ve never looked at this deeply before. Thank you for riffing it out. That you feel obligated after giving? Wow.

    I missed hearing your voice here.



  406.  #406Dorothea on September 15, 2010 at 8:35 am

    I dated a cancer for two years, and he was exactly as someone described above. I spent the entire two years beating him over the head and dragging him to the cave on EVERYTHING. But this was before I found rori. When I found rori, I seriously leaned back, and eventually understood the idea of a toxic man and did the walk away. well THAT scrambled his little Cancer brain, and he went into full “get her back mode.”

    But by then it was way too late.



  407.  #407Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 10:19 am

    I feel triggered reading that the alpha male is likely a “playa”.
    I wonder how alpha is defined by people now. I consider myself alpha…. And I couldn’t imagine a beta keeping my interest….. That’s feels unfair. I feel relieved around alpha men. I feel supported. I feel safe. I feel bored thinking about someone “playing” me. . . .ugh….some alphas are too busy with their missions to be chasing pu**y all day. At some point women and men transmute their sexual energy in order to focus on articular goals. I feel frustrated by these alpha concepts….. If I buy into that am I relegated to dominating men my entire life to avoid being “played”. Blech. I feel pouty.



  408.  #408Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 10:21 am

    What’s an “articular” goal? Looks like particular…. Mmmm, I like this “articular” word though 🙂



  409.  #409AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Nikita-
    You know a TON about astrology. Is it a hobby? You said something about Cancer men yesterday that I’ve had rolling around in my head like a loose marble ever since. It keeps bumping up against old memories and reframing them.

    Thanks!



  410.  #410Daria on September 15, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Don’t worry Nikita! That’s just what Beta men say so that they can slack off on the work of turning us on!



  411.  #411Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Amber,

    Ugh, ok. I hope it’s a good reframe. I’ve been studying astrology since I was 9. I found an old book and devoured it. But I never completely believed it all and yet I kept reading….astrologers have told me to become an astrologer but the math part turns me off. I like animals a lot so I have used astrology as tool for me to connect with people by seeing them as their animal archetype….. It gives me cute and fuzzy feelings. So when a lover is a Taurus and acting bullheaded, I can smile and say aww…. The little bull is just a bull…. It’s not personal….Just the way he’s relating right now.
    The cancer isn’t ignoring me or mad…..just overwhelmed by their feelers…. They’ll come around …. It was my tool for compassion. I could usually guess a person’s birthday based on how they rubbed me…. Or on my knee jerk reaction to them. I’ve moved away from the astrology …or tried to because it’s like a rabbit hole and suck up hours of my time.
    I began studying it for the medical aspects…. The idea is each sign absorbs stress in different ways…. And is prone in certain areas for certain ailments, which btw is usually emotional……



  412.  #412Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Daria!!!!!!

    I love you girl !!!!!!

    😉



  413.  #413Dorothea on September 15, 2010 at 10:48 am

    things people can never guess right about me: my weight, my age, and my sign.



  414.  #414AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Nikita-

    It’s an EXCELLENT reframe. It’s the realization that I should ALWAYS be an invitation to the crabbys. When they feel safe, they come out to play with me and WOW does that ever feel wonderful. My guy loves reassurance of my love (cards, notes left places, random emails and unexpected VMs). I’m understanding now how that makes him feel safe.

    I feel disappointed when I read that you’re letting the math put you off. That’s why computers were invented! GRIN. It seems like this is more than just some insight, but maybe a life path and definitely a GIFT. You must be a healer, too? How awesome to use it as a tool in that way. I’m impressed. Like, made-me-sit-back-in-my-chair, impressed.

    Thank you for sharing this part of you.



  415.  #415girl on September 15, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I do feel safer with Betas, but less turned on. I’m not sure which I prefer. Maybe one is better for “lovin” one is better for commitment? I dunno. I always hoped there would be an INDIVIDUAL I would click with in a way that trumped whatever pattern either one of us ever had. But I don’t have those romantic notions as much lately. And I’m not sure whether I cleanly fit alpha or beta. I can definitely be sorta wimpy, but then I bust out ninja style as soon as I sense somebody thinks they can overpower me.

    D is actually alpha, but in a sweet tender way. He’s a self professed lover, not a fighter. I think it’s hot when he’s ruthless at work. He’s not ruthless with me at all. Although, he’s toughening up right now, which is a huge relief. I am SO glad that he isn’t giving up Boston for me. I wouldn’t have liked that at all! I want a guy to take care of his business as THE main priority. It feels like a lot of pressure otherwise. And just plain unattractive.



  416.  #416Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Amber,

    🙂 thanks! I feel giddy watching you sit back in your chair. I’m the “English major, anthropology major, creative type”. And the math, chess, calculus kids have always wowed me…so yay! I like a little mutual reception, so to speak.

    True about computers working out the math, there are rather thorough programs. I’m referring to the conjunctions, oppositions, sextiles and squares….along with degrees…..at what angles….. My geometry is strongish-but after a while it seems to fall apart…..I’m more interested on the planets….I can believe planets….the moon proves itself to us and the tides practically everyday….a lot of astrology is limiting….and because there is so much going on that creates layers of variables onto the final conclusion(which never happens by the very nature of the “science”) it’s the never-ending story….or at least feels like it. I enjoy seeing if the filter is at work in a person’s life but I refuse any hard and fast rules or cookie cutter approaches….I try to get to know people for a while and then look at their chart. Just a glance to see what might be at play…..but again we can all transcend our birth charts. I wouldn’t buy into feeling stuck with a certain way of being because the stars said so. It’s not a stagnant field 🙂



  417.  #417Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Girl,

    I feel happy that he’s taking the Boston gig as well. But I love Boston 🙂



  418.  #418Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Dorothea,

    RE: #409 – You’re 32, 150 lbs, and your sign is Capricorn. Did I get it?



  419.  #419Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 11:41 am

    I keep feeling this yucky feeling and I think I am in a rut. I think I need something exciting to happen so I don’t feel stagnant. Maybe I’ll take a day trip to the shore this weekend before all the warm weather is gone.



  420.  #420Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 11:43 am

    “Please come to Boston for the springtime / I’m stayin’ here with some friends / And they’ve got lots of room / You can sell your paintings / On the sidewalk …”

    lalalalala



  421.  #421Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Nikita, me too:

    “I feel relieved around alpha men. I feel supported. I feel safe.”

    Daria’s probably right! “That’s just what Beta men say so that they can slack off on the work of turning us on!”

    Then again, I’m thinking there’s probably not really just alpha and beta. These are artificial constructs afterall….



  422.  #422Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Hi, everyone! When I took astronomy in college – and boy if you want to feel…smaller ego wise? – have those two be your sciences…..vastness and oldness (geology)….

    anyway, they said astrology was bs because the north star changes position and when it was created the heavens were in a different alignment. I bet you genius girls can look that up really quickly. I never cared really because no one ever thought I was a Capricon, so it didn’t seem to apply. And I didn’t like categories. However, lately I am entranced with numbers – numerology – and tarot.com (which I have like 13 decks of for the artisit in me)….ooooh, and I laid them all out to match up pix once….78 rows of 13!

    anyway I did numerology on my webpage name -its on there free somewhere, and the site, etc. If you think that numbers may well pre-date words, that seem pretty valid to me? I did this 9/9/09 spell on the internet thing that seemed to move mountains – not sure I’ll be able to affford the 10/10/10 one. And the guy says 0’s are very important, although I love 9’s….

    smile….

    and on a related freaky how the heck note – Lynnestar took the warror thing and got the exact same percentages as me?! which means she probably answered each question the same….and she’s 1/2 world away and we’ve barely talked this week….so out of all the millions of woman and the hundreds here…….I find/pick her and we kind of partner up on the blog?

    It boggles. my. mind!!!!!

    btw – being an almost equal percentage lover/warrior means all my work at logical thinking must’ve paid off, huh? smile



  423.  #423Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Hi Brenda. I feel yucky and stuck too. Did you see my experiment? — allowing myself to be depressed until the right man shows up.



  424.  #424Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 11:51 am

    “Life is complex. Each one of us must make his own path through life. There are no self-help manuals, no formulas, no easy answers. The right road for one is the wrong road for another … The journey of life is not paved in blacktop; it is not brightly lit, and it has no road signs. It is a rocky path through the wilderness.”– M. Scott Peck

    “We each have our own pathways to develop both personally and spiritually. They are based on our character and past experiences. No one else can identify our paths for us. Tune in to your inner guidance system and follow its direction.”–John & Patrice Robson



  425.  #425Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Erika! Eureka! you seem different because you ARE? ie giving me the benefit of the doubt, absorbing the info about paying and sounding open to a new way….etc! Absof*******y fabulous! I could hear it….and now I can read it. Before you would’ve bit my/our head off, and now you’re having breakthroughs around it. I love that there could be no limiting beliefs around abundance – the first massage I ever gave the guy paid me like double – which totally freaked me out, but he was like no, you need it…that would be great if they all would’ve btw! grin….but then sometimes they could barely pay my discounted rate. I love the idea of tipping – it toatally aligns with my idea about everyone having access to the work. But then some don’t tip….

    I just really appreciate the difference in this conversation.

    And, this is bad on my part but it used to just piss the hell out of me when my friend would sit and read tarot cards and get $60/hour…..and I’d done school, had to travel to another city, get videoed, etc. to be licensed….bought an office, a table, washed sheets, made forms….all for the same $60.

    lol and…..what do you think? If we all just read tarot for $60 no one could get massaged – so what is realitive value? perceived value?

    xo,
    J



  426.  #426Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Listen to the world at level two. Amen.



  427.  #427Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Re: alpha – girl and congrats to Life….did you read the Athol Kay interview on my blog? he has a totally different take on alpha/beta maleness I think; that said it’s just really another categorization made up, ya know?

    @ Lucy – what do you think about having a fab. life without the man? Cuz sometimes – and I know this is a relationship blog! ‘kay – but sometimes you seem to exist here at least in relationship to your relationships??? just something to think about – with the you shall do as you do disclaimer attached.

    smile,
    J



  428.  #428Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    “but sometimes you seem to exist here at least in relationship to your relationships???”

    What do you mean?



  429.  #429Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Hi Lucy,

    Thanks for the quotes. I feel a little overwhelmed. I want to read everyone’s post yet I have so much to do in my every day world. I really appreciate all of you ladies! Sorry if I am a bit distracted, but I’m a bit distracted. At any given time, I feel like I am on a superhighway…everyone around me is going 85 MPH while I can barely keep it up to 30 MPH. I can’t keep up with the pace of life.

    I want to be a wife. I think about what my life would be like to spend it with my partner, my match, the man I am in love with. I fantasize about it, and then I feel dissatisfied with my current life as a single. Yet I don’t want to stop fantasizing.

    Because of the fast pace of life, I try to cut corners. It is too time consuming to cook, so I eat out too much. And that’s not healthy for the budget.



  430.  #430Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I mean that you focus a lot on the nuance of every text the details of every date and spend a lot of time describing the characteristics of your men. There is nothing wrong with that, and I’m not judging that. However, after 3 months or so….that is ALL I really know about you -oh, and that you take walks with your dogs – and you are analytical in a completely different way than I am. I mean I don’t know what your hopes are, what your dreams are, what your goals are, why you consider talking to or dating 25 year olds, what your rationale for/in dating is….etc. I get the general feeling that you want to me married – but then it’s no I want to be reconciled. Depends on the day and the man, that’s why I was so confused. Every day it’s a new snapshot of you for me. This was why I was asking you if you wanted to know what I thought -and I have a strong feeling it’s gonna turn into defensiveness and triggering etc. even expressing it. It is what makes me curious tho.

    J



  431.  #431Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    be married, not me married – ha!



  432.  #432Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Thanks for explaining. I hear you saying you want to know more about me? And you want to understand me better?



  433.  #433Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    How Do You Measure Success?
    Wednesday, September 15
    I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has had to overcome while trying to succeed. – Booker T. Washington

    I talked with a woman the other night who had called in to brag about her son. She was so emotional I couldn’t even air the conversation because I couldn’t stop crying thru it. Her son, at 10 years old, had just learned how to walk. He has cerebral palsy and it was the first time he’d ever walked across the room without the aid of a walker.

    Consider for a minute the people around you and what obstacles they may have had to overcome. Obstacles you may not even realize ever existed for that person, or do currently exist. We all face challenges at points in our life. Sometimes you’ll be walking down the road of life and everything will be going well and then “Boom,” the road washes out beneath you. Or a tragedy befalls you. Troubles arrive and you have to deal with them.
    We don’t always get to choose our circumstances. Rarely do we get to choose them. But we always get to choose how we’re going to respond. Whatever your obstacle is today, big or small, don’t give up. Say a heartfelt prayer for help. Keep praying whenever the circumstance comes to mind. With that and a little faith, you have a good defense against a troubled heart. And with a heart that’s strong, you will find the strength to overcome obstacles.
    Delilah



  434.  #434Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Lucy,

    I think you and I both tend to have analysis paralysis, which was talked about on the newest thread.



  435.  #435Katarina Phang on September 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Girl said:

    “I do feel safer with Betas, but less turned on. I’m not sure which I prefer. Maybe one is better for “lovin” one is better for commitment? ”

    Ohhh…girl, I’m just thinking about how Seattle Guy just fits nicely somewhere in the middle. He’s definitely an alpha with a touch of a beta where it matters. He may prove to be the exact man I need, between the two extremes of my past 2 relationships (beta and alpha male).

    SG is an Aquarius too like my beta ex: he’s gentle, patient, affectionate, patient, calm and collected and a lover par excellence (always seeks to please his woman first before himself). He’s a great, hands-on dad too (bathing, feeding and putting him to bed every day).

    But he’s also accomplished and successful like an alpha male, very good with handimanship (he built and decorated his own artsy home theater). He’s tall, dark, handsome and very masculine: a huge turn on for me.

    My, Jacq I need you to send me reiki energy…I’m feeling so overwhelmed by these intense feelings running amok my mind the past few days. I have been sleepless the last 2 nights. Told him I wish I was sleepless in Seattle with him.



  436.  #436Katarina Phang on September 15, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “He’s a great, hands-on dad too (bathing, feeding and putting him….*I mean his 5 year old son…. to bed every day).”

    Another thing is he told me that he didn’t court his ex for too long (only a year) before marrying her. He said it wasn’t his style to court a woman too long. That explains his intensity for me. But I told him I felt a bit apprehensive because I’m worried it goes too fast for both of us.



  437.  #437Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I have been writing on here for about a year, so a lot of what you don’t understand about me is because you’re missing the background of all those months. . . so if you have specific questions, I will be happy to answer them to get you up to speed on my life. 🙂

    “why you consider talking to or dating 25 year olds, what your rationale for/in dating is”

    The 20-somethings was discussed quite a bit on here, maybe before you came on board. But the basic answer to that, and the “rationale” question, is that I am Rori Raye CDing (or have been up til recently) and following her recommendations.



  438.  #438Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    I have to go out for a little while, Jacqueline, but I will be happy to answer the rest of your questions later. <3



  439.  #439AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Katarina

    Be careful what you ask for. She’s a force to be awed by, or a channel for a force to be awed by. I feel physically like I had deep tissue work.



  440.  #440Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I disagree about alpha and beta being constructs of bs or something. I get my definition from watching animals/dogs- in every litter as a group a dog finds their place at some level. Also, this can be viewed in humans on a street corner; if there is a pack one will dominate. In a group of men one will be top dog, so to speak. To me it seems natural and very real. It brings to mind how a young man will say he needs to “strike out on his own”…. He may be an alpha and can’t find his place in his home town….feel frustrated or unrealized thus creating a need to dominate unconquered territory…..
    Ok…..I feel too thinky so I’m going to stop this train of thought 🙂



  441.  #441AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Jlina,

    I’ve been wondering all day what I could do for/give to you. You have been so generous with your time and energy and love. I was crying gratitude last night on my walk.

    I would like to find a way to bless you or direct blessings your way.

    Not because I feel like I owe you, but because I would love knowing you are glowing and filled up to the top of everything you desire.



  442.  #442Katarina Phang on September 15, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Amber, I can make use of her witchery today. 😀

    BTW, my Aquarius beta ex was pretty much decided to marry me within a week of our encounter. That’s how “easy” they are. OTOH, I needed to give my Virgo alpha hubby an “ultimatum” so he would finally commit.

    I just long to find out next weekend if SG and I really have a lot going on for us. I guess, if anything, I will just go for the adventure.



  443.  #443Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Daggonit!!!!!!

    Yes, a really good alpha can go beta when it’s required….my gf gets amazed when she hears me talking to my LI, she’s floored at how “beta” I sound over the phone when he comes into the room…or when she sees us interact. She knows a very dominant side of me that seems to vanish when he’s in the vicinity. She claims my voice changes and all of my energy shifts…..but he’s just so alpha I have a lot of fun melting into myself 🙂



  444.  #444Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    @ Lucy – no I used to try and know you better, I gave up. What I was asking today is do you realize that that is all you show of yourself on this blog? or is that really all there is? (I doubt it, okay)…and what is your mission and or goal in being here? What success have you achieved in your months here? (and this relates to blog topic I’ve got brewing….) and why oh why do I have to ask you stuff three times in very direct terms ie how did Jonathon get your email address? before you will answer? I’m back now just to answer this.

    And I’ve got to run – real life things to do!



  445.  #445Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Ugh…..why am I taking this astro bait?

    Aquarian men seem to be of the few that skip convention. I know an aquarian that would knowingly marry a woman who has done sex work in the past…..he just didn’t get mixed up in social mores. Whereas other men may hold that against a woman and be more traditional. I can’t really “do” the Aquarians …..I need solid shapes 🙂 and parameters….

    Again I say!!!! Astrology is full of limiting beliefs!!!! Please take these observations with a grain of salt



  446.  #446Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    @ Katarina – dear! take a tylenol pm and get some sleep – SAVE all that excitement. lol….and seriously, if it’s more scary than exciting you’ve got to put some brakes on it, but let it all play out then decide, hmmm?

    Would be happy to send you Reiki – you wanna be one of my new Betty Boop dolls I won from the machine? the madonna one or the one with the silver lame suit and go go boots?

    and what time zone, etc. are you in so we can see if you can feel it – email me that – I could do it around 9 pm. tonite Houston time???

    Happy day!!! to all….



  447.  #447Brenda on September 15, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Amber,

    What a beautiful expression of gratitude! What you wrote could be made into a greeting card!!



  448.  #448Katarina Phang on September 15, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    So I need a distraction from my “fixation” of my new beau and lucky my cop CD called -after telling me that he’s been trying to be a “good boy”- and I flirted again with him today. So I asked him if he was going through a withdrawal for not calling/talking to me in a day. 🙂

    Soon perhaps I need a distraction from my cop Mel Gibson-lookalike CD. LOL….

    I need perhaps at least 4 or 5 hot hunks like that to make me feel like a diva and never to have to “obsess” over any guy anymore.

    That’s definitely in the plan. 🙂



  449.  #449Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    wow all those posts while I was posting…very cool!!! Amber, thank you I give you my gratitude – for just being you, and for quietly visiting my blog, and for all things specific and all things non specific…

    and ask that you merely accept love….in all forms….let it in, and let how powerful and amazing you are in too??? in return. Really. Suspend voice, suspend disbelief. Believe that we’re always gonna listen like we want to know what your favorite flower is….and remember. Even when it doesn’t look like it. Hugs….me

    Nikita yes, me and Brenda have trained dogs – in my case an unneutered 100 pound white german shepherd…and I was still the alpha after 2 YEARS of obedience school (barely!)….but in men, well read what Athol says, it’s interesting and he has a website it’s on my what to read page.

    I’ve read a couple of non fictions about a wolf shape changer – Patricia Briggs – that’s an Omega, ie Magician – neither the Alpha or the Beta can function without her. LOVE IT!!! which totally puts me into the king/warrior/magician/lover idea.

    J’Omega….



  450.  #450Katarina Phang on September 15, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Jlina, send me from any dolls you like. Just don’t “voodo doll” me. 🙂 I’m in California.

    Nikita, I don’t take horoscopes all too seriously but it’s fun to observe because SG definitely has that Aquarian quality my beta ex does. He’s just the right mixture of yin and yang, the more likely candidate for a thriving relationship with a feminine woman (who can be fiery and hot-headed at times) who needs lots of affection like me. That’s my feeling anyway as for now. Too early to know though, I must add.

    I will go with the flow and surrender and trust the Universe will deliver the best man for me at my doorstep. It seems to me though that things really “pick up” for me in the “adoration dept.” I have more text messages from another date I had in Seattle before SG. He’s obviously interested but he holds no candle to my new beau.

    I will make him one of my sources of distraction, though. All safe and fun.



  451.  #451Rori Raye on September 15, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Suzie – start with the book – it will help you incredibly… just click on the Have The Relationship You Want book over in the sidebar…Love, Rori



  452.  #452AmberS on September 15, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Nikita-

    That change in energy baffles my coworkers. When my guy calls and I get all soft and gooey they don’t know what to make of it. My daughter was SURE I was faking it for the longest time. She’d never seen me be in my feminine energy. Ha!

    I’m sorry to ‘bait’ you with the astrology stuff. I am just totally fascinated. I’ve always viewed it as a quick and dirty way to make judgements about people (hehe) but in a productive – how can I communicate more effectively way. Even so- I just have the smallest amount of understanding of only a couple of the signs. I like to accept it (and numerology and tarot) as useful tools, for gaining understanding, and like tarot, for illuminating the possibilities. I was told that my whole chart could be viewed as a “here’s your opportunity to evolve” roadmap. This was pointed out in connection to my daughter’s chart, where almost everything is in the 12th house. So she’s more evolved. Not that I doubt that in the least.

    The thing you posted yesterday- wow! TOTALLY useful. I can only imagine how it feels to have all that knowledge at your fingertips!

    I love it when the power to be comes right back into our own hands.

    There is no future, there is only now.

    And now.

    And now.

    GRIN

    And NOW I’d better get my butt back to work!



  453.  #453Tina on September 15, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Ragnell, I dont know what to say. All I can say for now is trust your feelings.

    I feel triggered! I feel like I want to fight, I feel protective Goddess Warrior Woman has come out to play 🙂 I feel helpless, what can I do? feel oh right yeah FEEL. Hide the children in the woods – my mom did that really, she hide us in the woods. I feel tension in my right side, my head feelings fighting, dont fck with that side of your brain Tina Goddess Warrior Woman, you will go down fighting or maybe not 🙂 give it all you got! fearless Warrior Women do. What does squeaky voice say now? All men are shits, and dummies to be manipulated and controlled at my whim. I feel turned off.



  454.  #454Rori Raye on September 15, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Pseud…Loved your poem….very thought-provoking…please keep posting on this topic. Where’d you get the “love test”? Love, Rori



  455.  #455Pseudonymous on September 15, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Rori,

    Denise posted the link in #164 above.



  456.  #456Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Pseudonymous – I love your poem, too! So glad you came out of your castle to share it. 🙂 (I am a “Queen” also on that test, and definitely attracted to “Magicians.” :))

    <3
    Lucy



  457.  #457Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Jacqueline — “Lucy – no I used to try and know you better, I gave up.”

    Thank you for letting me know. I accept your decision to not want to know me any better. Namaste.

    <3
    Lucy



  458.  #458Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Amber,

    I felt baited by katarina’s aquarian/beta/alpha vs. Virgo posts…..and temptation might be more accurate. Aquarian men are a trigger point for me. I adore them….I just squirm the way I do with cancers -too much of a good thing I guess 😉



  459.  #459Nikita on September 15, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    P.s. When I read your daughter’s 12th house is packed with planets….I said… “oh sh*t”. The 12 house is a special place….it’s all very interesting stuff.



  460.  #460Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Lucy I am confused because you didn’t answer the questions although you continually tell me to ask you questions. I don’t want to get to know you better, I want your opinion on the questions I asked. What I hear is you saying if you were around for the last year, you’d know me – and btw, I did read lava feast…so I know background on 25 year old.

    My question and frustration is WHY won’t you answer direct questions? Even to the point of telling me IF I wanted your email, to ask Brenda for it…why couldn’t you just email me?

    Feels like a game, ergo I have surrendered to not knowing you – you win.

    But I would like it if you answered questions directly – and you will do what you do.

    Hon Sha Ze Sho Nen,
    J



  461.  #461Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Nikita – I am impressed with your knowledge and the powerful way you communicate. I hear a lot of women here loving it…

    Best,
    J



  462.  #462Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Jacqueline. I feel confused, too. I didn’t answer your questions because you just told me that you don’t want to get to know me any better!

    “I don’t want to get to know you better, I want your opinion on the questions I asked.” — Yet what you asked were questions about ME! So I am royally confused here!

    “Feels like a game, ergo I have surrendered to not knowing you – you win.”

    It’s not a game to me, Jacqueline. I have no desire to “win” anything, and, in fact, have not won anything in this situation.



  463.  #463Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Dorothea – 328- aw, that brought tears to my eyes — it feels like you really hear my heart. That feels very very good. Thank you. <3



  464.  #464Jlina on September 15, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    okay, Lucy, that felt like it came from your heart, and I’m hurting you. That is not my intention. We are very very different women. I want to feel like I do know you already, and instead I feel like I’m butting my head against a wall. If I cannot know you personally, I would like to know your opions, ergo, answer questions. If you don’t wanna talk at all, that’s okay, too. I have space for you to just be and I’ve been trying to figure out a way to communicate effectively with you. I just can’t. It just is, no big deal, okay?

    Hugs and han shan se show nin is the Chr*** in my greets the Chr** in you, or the Buddah, so it is my way of saying you’re welcome to your selfness and it is still magnificent.



  465.  #465Lucy on September 15, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Jacqueline, it all comes from my heart, and, no, you are not hurting me.

    I just don’t understand what it is you want from me — you tell me you don’t want to know/understand me, yet you want me to answer questions about who I am and what I do.

    So, I’m hearing, “I don’t want to know you — tell me who you are, dammit!”



  466.  #466Erika Awakening on September 15, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Jacqueline,

    #423, thank you. I feel very seen. That’s just it … I *am* different … because I used HBR on whatever tension there was with me and this blog … and that shifted my energy around it …



  467.  #467Laughing goddess on September 15, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Oh my gosh! I feel so much laughter right now…like a eureka, aha moment.

    I’ve been lurking for a few days now after getting back from vacation. Catching up but not feeling super inspired to post and…

    I was feeling very curious about the dynamic between Lucy and Jlina. Feeling kind of confused about why they seem to be triggering each other. I feel sweetness and connection with both of them (you) and I was feeling confused about what the problem is. Although really there is no problem, it’s just that some people trigger us and some don’t.

    Anyway…the aha moment happened when I remembered that Lucy is a Gemini and Jlina is a Capricorn. The Capricorn/ Gemini connection has been huge in my life…and in my experience thy are oddly drawn to each other and triggered at the same time.

    I am a Gemini and my mom, stepmom, and past three major lovers have been Capricorns. I have a LOT of experience with this dynamic.

    I feel inspired to share my perspective with the hopes of not offending anyone with the “stereotyping” inherent in
    astrology.

    It’s no surprise that Jlina feels like she doesn’t know Lucy. Geminis tend to be mercurial like air, very hard to pin down. They also tend to relate to the world through their relationships. Of course we all do in a sense but it is very pronounced for geminis generally speaking.

    Capricorns tend to be solid and stable like the earth. Their views are solid and somewhat slow to change (some might say ri