Avoid the Word YOU – Even When You’re Speaking Your Truth

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Here – the blogging is the practice.

Basically – I’m asking you to observe the same rules on the blog as I ask you to observe with a man – so you can practice.

And I know how hard it is.

How easy it is to feel triggered and angry, and not know what to do with it – and want to practice expressing it.

I WANT you to be BOLD!

I want you to speak the truth.

And yet – I want you to do it in a certain way that’s all about you – and zero about him or anyone else.

Just because a man triggers you doesn’t mean it’s about him.

If a man breaks into your house, hurts you and robs you – that’s harder.

You don’t need to ask yourself why was I home at that time? You don’t need to analyze your behavior. A man came into your space, and even with the best defense you could muster (however that looked) – he did something that impacted you.

In love – it can be like this.  A man can cheat on you and give you a horrible disease.

A man can gamble away all your money and leave you destitute.

A man can have another wife and marry you anyway, and leave you officially unmarried and without insurance or legal protection.

In this circumstance – he did this, and you are the accidental bystander.

In this circumstance, rage and lots of YOU words seems totally justified, and it IS!  Of course it’s righteous to be angry when someone hurts you – on purpose or not.

And still – for purposes of getting you to where you want to go in love – I don’t want to focus on this righteous anger – I want to focus on the language and mindset around ANYTHING – no matter HOW horrible it was or is that will work best to HEAL the depths of pain, shame, guilt, fear, grief that the righteous anger is surrounding for you (and in a very positive way, too).

I want to encourage you to connect with, channel and USE your anger – and yet, SPEAK in words of only yourself.

Instead of using your anger to strike out at the perpetrator because of what he did – I want you to simply express that anger out because that propulsion of emotion is what you FEEL!

In other words – you need no excuse to feel and express rage.

It belongs to you, it’s part of YOUR healing emotions.

Because nothing you do, say or think can change what has already happened…I want you to do what is best for you – NOW!!

And what is best for you is to focus on you.

The process is pretty methodical. You follow your own inner workings and process and share it as much as you can.

And this is totally different from “complaining” – and totally different from wishing other people bad, using the word “you” and getting them involved in your process.

With a criminal – it gets you nowhere. Better to focus on what WOULD get you somewhere.

And with a regular man who’s simply done something wrong – something that made you feel bad or angry – talking about HIM will only get his defenses operating full tilt.

His ego and his boundaries won’t allow you to run him down – even if you’re right.

He’ll  shut you out and walk away from you – which is what I’d advise you to do with a man who tries to do that with YOU – a man saying things to you that feel bad to you – that feel like he’s extending his world to impact yours in some negative way…that he wishes you ill or hates you.

When you are alone or with a therapist – you can explore other things – but ALWAYS – talking about OTHERS is not the way to go.

You are always just talking about yourself and REACTING to others.

So as you write – privately in your journals, and here, on this monumental journal of all of us – see if you can share your deepest feelings without involving other people at all…(except to set context by saying lightly what happened to trigger you…).

Love, Rori

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891 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 6:59 am

    He’ll shut you out and walk away from you.

    One has to wonder how that could be part of a healthy relationship.



  2.  #2Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 7:04 am

    Thank you Rori. I am really curious about how we can do this without talking about others that seem to come naturally to us.



  3.  #3Lily T. on April 11, 2011 at 7:27 am

    I’ve read this blog off and on for over a year, but not consistently or in depth. I feel glad that I decided to click on it Saturday and stayed to read the threads on Circular Dating. I feel I understand CD much more fully now, and I feel grateful to Rori and all the sirens who took the time and patience to describe, explain, and example what cd’ing means to them and why, how, and when to employ it. Thank You.

    Lily



  4.  #4Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Rori: I think we need some good lessons on this…as in step by step instructions with real examples. Because so much of the time when I see it practiced on this blog, the person doing it is actually being very mean but it feels like they’re trying to sugar coat that meanness and make excuses for it (hide behind the words) by saying something like “This is not about ________ though. This is about me. So please __________ don’t get triggered.” and then they’re off trashing what that person thinks or feels in very, very negative ways. I know if I used this way of communicating with J he’d be pissed.

    I personally never blame him and I we never argue but I also never say things like:

    “Okay. This is my stuff not yours so don’t get upset. When J says “blah, blah, blah fill in the blank”, it makes me feel bad because J plays the victim role and alows people to hurt him. I hate hearing what he has to say because it’s the same thing over and over and I want him to change to be like me so I don’t have to be frusted all the time. How can I heal this? I really want to be able to get past J’s lameness yet I don’t know how. But that’s my stuff. Not his. I love you J, I really do. Please know that. What do you think?”

    That’s an exaggeration of course but that’s what I hear when women on this blog use the “my stuff not yours” and “I’m just trying to heal” and “I feel” instead of speaking directly to each other when something is triggering. Maybe I haven’t seen it done right?? Or maybe it’s just not for me??

    This way of speaking that you talk about sounds really good in theory but I have yet to see it work with a masculine personality. I agree with the softness and I agree with the being feminine when it happens and I agree with needing to be open and receptive when we disagree with our men. What I don’t understand is how to do it without sounding like we’re simply trying to sugar coat. It’s like saying “It’s not you, it’s me.” That’s the oldest breakup line in the history of breakup lines and it’s almost never how the one saying it really feels.

    Can you give guidance? Can we hear some examples? Like the examples you gave above. Maybe the man who marries you and he’s already married. How exacly would that conversation go? How would a woman tell him what’s really going on with her and yet get her point across in a non-blaming way. Personally, if it happened to me, that man would know everything I think and feel in those moments and it would be all about HIM. 😉 I’m not saying my way is right, I’m saying it is what I do. I would like to know what you would do in the same situation and see if to me, it sounds like hiding the truth rather than telling it exactly like it is. I’m curious how, if this happened to you, the whole thing would play out.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  5.  #5Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 7:55 am

    Alicia Power is a hugely interesting woman.
    She’s an “International Human Potential Coach,”
    and she’s written a book called ‘Psychic Scan” –
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    about you and your relationship.

    Alicia says that although the secret to a happy
    and successful life is having the skills to stay
    balanced and feel good and “positive” – the secret
    to getting to THAT place is THROUGH getting INTO,
    truly feeling, loving and honoring your innermost
    feelings. Even the ones you wish you didn’t have.

    And that this is key to developing your
    intuition and to guiding you to know whether or
    not a man is good for you, what’s in his heart,
    how he feels about you, and what he’s thinking for
    your relationship for the long haul.

    . Alicia says, “After 30 years of mentoring
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    Let us know how your emotions are effecting
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    Sincerely, The Editors at
    LoveRomanceRelationship.com



  6.  #6Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Over the weekend I had a situation that I chose to address using the word “you” assuming the person would feel blamed and end up not wanting to communicate with me. I sent a text and was shocked that he called to work through his thinking and in his opinion what should be done. It left me feeling that a mature man will be open to working things through at times, no matter what.



  7.  #7Mel on April 11, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Hmmm…

    This is definitely good practice for me.

    It gives me a little perspective as to the whole “walk out” thing on Friday. I don’t agree with how it was done, but maybe I can understand it a little more.

    Perhaps I need to be doing a little more “walking out” of my own.

    I posted a lengthy commentary on the last thread (#359). Does anyone have any suggestions for me for being less available, yet still open? And doing this with the right energy?



  8.  #8Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:20 am

    From the latest email from Rori
    What if, instead, a man falls hard in love with you when HE’S GIVING TO YOU?

    Sounds easy, wonderful, delightful, everything you want, right?

    “Except,” you tell me, “there aren’t any giving men out there!”

    What if, in fact, there are plenty of men out there who want to give to you – perhaps your own man?

    What if the only thing standing in your way to all the love you could ever want, is – just like so many of us women – your own barriers to LETTING HIM give to you?

    The truth is, if you feel that relationships are draining and exhausting, it’s because you’re working at them too hard.

    And being nice and kind doesn’t help at all. Most of the time, in fact, working hard and being nice and kind actually pushes men away!

    Imagine your relationship is a boat. Who’s doing the rowing? Is it you? Pretty much all by yourself? Are you doing all the rowing?

    Most of us, if we really look at ourselves and our relationships honestly, would say “Yes, I’m rowing the boat.”

    You may be smiling and pretending you’re not, but if men and relationships seem difficult to you, chances are you’re rowing hard, and he’s just enjoying the cruise (unless he decides he’d rather jump ship.)



  9.  #9Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:24 am

    When she came to me as a client, she felt she had nowhere to turn, no options other than to either leave him or to stay – exactly on his terms – and hope it would somehow get better.

    I offered Cheryl a third way to go – to stop doing everything she was doing that was pushing her man away, and begin to listen, speak and just be in ways that would draw him in closer.

    Instead of trying to get him to commit to her, she would inspire and motivate him to want to commit to her.

    She would step back and let him step up to the plate.

    She would stop moving toward him, stop trying to convince him to want to be with her, stop telling him what she needed and wanted, and give him the room to come toward her.

    And in the process, she would feel some of the feelings she’d avoided feeling for so long – the feelings she’d kept hidden from herself by working so hard to make the relationship work.

    Intimacy can be scary.

    No matter how much we say we want it, we’re really all terrified of getting close to a man.

    We’re afraid he’ll see who we really are – especially the parts we don’t like about ourselves.

    And some of us have so many parts we don’t like that we spend most of our energy trying to keep those parts hidden – not just from men, but from ourselves, too.

    I asked Cheryl to begin to listen and speak in completely different ways.

    First, I asked her to listen and speak to HERSELF in completely different ways.

    I asked her to stop working so hard at her relationship and instead to turn her energy into doing what feels good to her.

    I asked her to appreciate and take care of herself. I asked her to listen to her own body and speak to herself in ways that no longer undermined herself and her relationship.

    I asked her to treat herself as though she had boundaries.

    I asked her to absolutely stop running herself down and beating herself up – to ignore the voice inside her head screaming at her, strangling her, telling her what she could and couldn’t do, could and couldn’t have, mustn’t, shouldn’t, couldn’t want.

    I asked her to stop analyzing, processing and thinking about what her man was doing and thinking.

    I asked her to pretty much stop thinking entirely!

    And then I asked her to listen and speak to her man from her heart.

    This is a lot of asking.

    I asked Cheryl to essentially change the way she was thinking, listening, speaking and using body language.

    I was asking her to change her perspective about everything.

    And I was asking her to stop doing and to just be.

    Sounds like a lot.

    Sounds like years and years of self-help books and personal growth seminars.

    And that’s a wonderful way to go.

    Only, I was asking her to make these changes NOW.

    Overnight.

    And I was pretty much promising her she’d see RESULTS overnight.

    And that’s what happened.

    Cheryl’s boyfriend switched gears almost immediately.



  10.  #10Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:28 am

    When Cheryl’s boyfriend switched gears, he started calling her more, he started seeing her more, they starting having more meaningful conversations.

    And as it started to look as though she might actually get the kind of love, romance, attention and commitment she wanted, she could feel, for the first time, how truly scared she was of actually having everything she wanted.

    And suddenly, she realized it wasn’t so much about her boyfriend’s cluelessness.

    It was all about her feelings.

    She had been doing, doing, doing all the time: rowing the boat of her relationship – trying to get it to the shore of commitment – while he just sat back and enjoyed the view.

    All that doing wasn’t getting her anywhere in the relationship. In fact, it was pushing her boyfriend further and further away.

    When I asked Cheryl to stop doing, and focus on just being, she did. She stopped rowing so hard.

    And it was as though the boat stopped completely.

    No one was rowing. She and her boyfriend were just sitting there, looking at each other, wondering what the other would do.

    And while Cheryl waited to see if her boyfriend would pick up the oars and pull their boat to shore, all of a sudden, the feelings she’d avoided feeling showed up. Anger. Fear. Confusion.

    She wrote me:

    “Dear Rori, Thank you. Yes, my anger, has always been a problem for me. I feel anger towards men period (inherited it from my family as well). I’m aware, don’t want to hate men, but I have anger. And sometimes I’m yelling, and sometimes I want to throw things. Sometimes I don’t even know I’m angry. I’m afraid I’ll get so angry I’ll scare him away. I know I feel anger towards my boyfriend for things he does and doesn’t do, but some of it is from past relationships and family attitudes. But I don’t want to be angry!! Cheryl”

    I wrote her:

    Cheryl, sometimes we’re angry because, really, we’re scared.

    And anger is a much more powerful, much better feeling emotion than fear.

    Anger can get us into gear.

    Anger can propel us to make changes.

    But, sometimes, we vent our anger on someone else (usually the people closest to us) because we’re really angry at ourselves.

    We’re really angry at our own fear and lack of boundaries.

    When we’re closed off in some ways, we attract relationships that keep that kind of balance and tension – it’s just too scary to get closer.

    So, as you practice what we worked on tonight, you may feel some barriers coming down, and you will feel him come closer to you – it may feel messy and scary and uncomfortable.

    Consider it a gift and as a sign that you’re on the right track.

    Practice visualizing him coming closer to you while your defenses are down. Don’t let him come any closer than you’re comfortable, and take it slow – until you can allow him really close while you’re relaxed and undefended.

    Also – right in line with doing less is SPEAKING less. We women are gifted communicators, but what I’m asking you to do is to learn to get comfortable with silence. Once you do, you’re half-way there



  11.  #11Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Mercedes: I feel interested in the questions you asked Rori. I feel curious and hopeful that she will give us some examples.

    I know that throughout my journey here I have said similar things to the example you stated above. I am learning and growing and developing my skills.

    What I have learned through all that is whenever I am triggered, it’s all about me. Why am I reacting to this situation in this way?

    For me, it’s all about trusting in a higher power and accepting things as they are. Don’t get me wrong, I still struggle with loving what is, but more and more I am learning to trust and accept that it isn’t my job to determine whose behavior is acceptable and whose isn’t. I truly believe that there is a higher power in charge. Who am I to think that I understand all the reasons why people choose to do things.

    This isn’t about you 🙂 yet your post got me thinking. I feel good exploring where I am at with this.

    My phone is starting to lock up and won’t let me review my post so I’m going to submit it now. Hopefully it makes sense 🙂



  12.  #12Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:38 am

    RE 359 Mel I think this “This feels a little “one foot in and one foot out” though… I don’t want to have that vibe. I also need to be careful not to have a bitter energy as I am doing things for myself and being less convenient” is a wise assessment and being aware on your part. I am wondering if your feelings around the leaving is clear enough to you to share them with him. If not maybe consider my comment about physical separation as just spending time away with someone else or family, even if for the weekend. I would not bring up any talking about leaving or separation unless I was sure that is what I want to do. Also thinking about will definitely be communicated in your body language and emotions. So in the context of how things have been moving the right direction over the last two months maybe it’s best to focus on that than just his disappearing act that in comparison was only for a few hours? He is entitled to alone time or the opportunity to work out things the way he wants to, no? He is also entitled to question his own life, isn’t he? Interdependence is the ability to go in and out of intimacy. His leaving I am not sure is so “wrong” for him to do. I am wondering if in line with how the job search is going if you could for the next few days focus on what worked well in your relationship. When he reaches out could you talk about the memories?



  13.  #13Senior Lady Vibe on April 11, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Hello, world. A special “thank you so much” to Harry Browne and all others who taught me those things thirty years ago!

    I am grateful but sometimes I take things for granted until I realize what I have. I’m working on that. Thank you.

    xoxo
    SLV



  14.  #14Lorelei on April 11, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Another day and another CD. With fallout. This one was for years the house-husband and chief child-care while his wife progressed in her job. Now divorced, he is working his way up job-wise, having been out of paid work for years. He calls himself a radical feminist and very egalitarian. And he is – he would like me to take the lead quite a lot! But I feel frustrated. Dating isn’t a Marxist commune. (Over here in the UK, that is not as politically a loaded comment than it might be for some of you in the US. Don’t freak out – I’m not a Marxist.)

    But he gets upset that I don’t call. I’ve done all the FM’s about feeling more relaxed/feminine/ comfortable if the man calls/arranges.

    I’ve already had how he can’t pay all the time, and he was rather upset when he didn’t hear from me after a date before. And despite the FM’s, he keeps expecting to push me out to the front, to lead. Though he leads on kissing.

    He’s not normally the kind of man I would date – he drinks much more than I do, he swears a lot, different politics and different education levels. He’s in a financially precarious position. And despite his claimed radical politics, he’s made some nasty jokes about gay men, and some of my absolutely best friends are gay men. I couldn’t get my act together to say it felt uncomfortable to hear that.

    But I’m practising being open to all men. It’s now 3 days since our last date. I’m not too bothered about him. But I just know he’s waiting for me to call – he will be thinking that it is my turn now to make an effort.

    But I don’t want to row the boat!!! And if he gets upset, he will probably be in touch to share it. But I know that if I start rowing the boat, I will feel like his Mother.

    I don’t mind too much what happens. Not even sure I want to take it further. Actually, I feel kind of glad he hasn’t called. I’m just processing on here. But he’s got me worrying about his feelings! Boooo.



  15.  #15Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:44 am

    RE 11 LG it does make sense and I was happy with Mercedes comment myself and hoping that we will get examples. Not suggesting that Rori encourages a one-size-fit all practice because she has encouraged going into boy energy to see what we create, but sometimes I feel there is misunderstanding on what she promotes. For me I would be happy if I can be aware enough of myself to change the place that I “come” from when I communicate. It seems my understanding is that when I don’t need is the time when guys seem to want to give because there is no required obligation on their part and that makes them feel good. In other words they get to do what they want to do. Maybe in my needing it a box is created around what I need and they might be afraid that in giving the box might be wrong or what they give might not be just right enough and they will pay the consequences. I wish it was all crystal clear.



  16.  #16Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Still exploring this…

    Here’s an example that comes to mind for me. LI and I watch a lot of National Geographic type documentaries on nature and animals.

    In almost all of them there is at least one scene where a lion chases down a gazelle and eats them.

    That gets me every time. I feel pissed at the lion for taking down the gazelle. I mean, what a jerk. That gazelle didn’t do anything wrong. I want to tell that lion off.

    At the same time, that’s the way the lion was made. That’s what it was made to do. Why would I put my energy into challenging something that is bigger than me? By bigger the me, I mean the overall complexity of all the interactions on the planet. Sometimes I see things that I don’t like, but I trust that ultimately there is a higher purpose.

    Of course, this is all conceptual. When it comes down to it, I still get triggered and respond to things. I still think my way is right sometimes.

    Yet, I feel better when I trust in this higher power and look within to understand why I am getting so triggered rather than make it about the other person and I think this is what Rori is getting at.

    Xoxo



  17.  #17Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Lorelei this ” He’s in a financially precarious position” I understand from Lauren Frances would cause him to not feel good enough to be really masculine and be in a relationship.

    I am also wondering if this indicates an incompatibility of certain values? “And despite his claimed radical politics, he’s made some nasty jokes about gay men, and some of my absolutely best friends are gay men.”



  18.  #18Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 8:51 am

    LG: It makes total sense. 🙂

    I’m not really an “accept things as they are” kind of girl, I’m really more about changing the entire world and calling people out on bad behavior and standing up for the under dog and all that. And I would guess about 90% of the time it really is none of my business but…right or wrong, here I am…out there in someone’s face about something. LOL

    I do know it’s all about me. I know that certain things trigger me because of past experiences, because of childhood, because of my current relationship, because of things I’ve done or wouldn’t do or whatever. Yes. It is about me when I’m triggered. But for me, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be straight forward and tell the other person that what they’re doing is wrong or just accept things the way they are.

    For me, it’s kind of like this (and this is an EXTREME example so understand I’m not comparing it to what happens on the blog, I’m just using it as an example of what I’m like both in writing and in real life): I was raped multiple times as a girl/young woman. I know when I hear stories of rape, I get triggered BAD and I know those passionate feelings come from my past. I also know that I couldn’t stand by and watch it happen or hear a man talking about doing it or listen to a woman pretend it didn’t happen to her when it really did, etc. And I also know it’s not my place to say anything and I also know my triggers are my own….

    And I also know I would not sit back and let a higher power deal with them in the end…although I do firmly believe that’s going to happen anyway. “G*d will deal with him in his own time. While we wait, let me have a crack at it.”

    Again…extreme example but that’s the kind of person I am. Screaming loud when I’m triggered and very direct about it so easily annoyed when it feel sugar coated. I couldn’t sugar coat the rape example I used by saying to a guy “This is my stuff, not yours, but I’m very triggered listening to talk about that woman you raped. It feels bad. I don’t want to hear it. That’s my stuff though, not yours and I’m just trying to heal.” See, to me, that’s all BS. What I really want to do is call him out on it…directly and loudly, call the police to turn us both in (him for rape and me for going all psychotic on him). And when I do it, I’m not simply trying to heal myself so saying I am lacks some authenticity.

    I do get what you’re saying though and I like that you are exploring where you are with it and I like that I can feel very confident you will find your place with it and will be at peace with who you are. I like that a lot…because I really do believe it.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  19.  #19Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 8:53 am

    RE16 LG the thing that came to me reading that was “accepting what is” as in the cirlce of life bigger picture. I have heard Dr. Paul talking about stressing about what we cannot change as a boundary issue saying we diminish our self esteem that way. He calls it holes in our boundary. I felt that way recently watching the same type of documentary, but I believe I can safely say though it was my feeling in the moment. I just noticed it. When it changed to something else I was able to move on.



  20.  #20Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 8:56 am

    FW: re 15

    ya, I totally get what you are saying about needing. I’m going to ponder that for a bit. Thanks!



  21.  #21Lily T. on April 11, 2011 at 9:04 am

    @Mercedes re: #18

    Gotta say it, I like your style. 😉



  22.  #22Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 9:05 am

    I have my second appt with my NLP guy today. In the last appt and also in this general lecture of his that I attended, he was talking about whose “energy is bigger”.

    What he means by that is when we envision our energy in comparison to all of our ancestors or a higher power, do we see our energy as bigger or smaller? He said if our energy is bigger then it actually blocks to flow of energy coming into us.

    This didn’t make any sense to me at first but as I’ve been sitting with it for the last few weeks, it’s starting to male sense.

    What I have come to is that our energy is equal compared to everyone else on the planet. We are all equal. We are all trying and doing our best.

    And compared to a higher energy or “all that is”, we struggle when we don’t let ourselves be smaller than that. That’s were grace comes in and trust.

    I had a deep experience last night when I was falling asleep of feeling so much gratitude for all that the universe provides for me.

    I felt in awe. Like here I am complaining about it being too cold or what this person said or that person, and not noticing just how much I have to be thankful for.

    I am blessed! The universe is constantly showering me with blessings and I don’t even notice because everything is not “perfect” in my eyes.



  23.  #23Mel on April 11, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Perhaps feeling messages and walking away is all we need to do to show that we do not approve of the bad behavior and will not put up with it? Perhaps this allows them to figure things out on their own terms?

    Example: Husband and I were having a conversation about my job interview. Suddenly, he starts chatting with his brother on MSN and the conversation comes to an abrupt stop. I wait patiently for 10 minutes. I then tell him:

    “I’m feeling ignored. I am excited to share about my interview, and I’m feeling cut off. I’m also starving, so I’m going out to get something to eat.”

    When I returned, he apologized and said he thought I was finished talking, but would like it if I told him the rest.

    I think here I effectively used only feeling statements (no “you’s”) and walking out on the bad behavior. It felt good.



  24.  #24Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Mercedes:

    “I do get what you’re saying though and I like that you are exploring where you are with it and I like that I can feel very confident you will find your place with it and will be at peace with who you are. I like that a lot…because I really do believe it.”

    Thanks! I feel warm and fuzzy reading that and I feel the same about you. <3



  25.  #25Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:17 am

    This might help someone

    A.- this might sound strange with all that I talk about around NOT being needy and demanding.

    But yours is a difference case.

    You need to be more selfish.

    Here’s why.

    You are “worthy”, and for the love you give, you deserve a man who is ready and willing to share the same in return.

    You should never be afraid to want what you want in your life.

    And that’s doubly true when it comes to your love life.

    The fact that you want a close and loving relationship that consists of a longer-term commitment and marriage is great.

    You deserve what you want, and you are in NO WAY a “needy” woman for wanting that.

    So don’t confuse your dreams and desires with being needy or demanding – even if men try and tell you differently.

    Life is way too short to not follow your heart (and be with a man who doesn’t fully meet you and share the love you’re capable of).

    But wanting something, and HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT, are two different things.

    Do not forget this – it’s important!

    Before you try and talk more to the man in your life about marriage, there’s something you need to address first.

    Here goes.

    You need to feel more comfortable with the fact that it’s ok for you to have marriage as a priority.

    Why?

    Because when you have that funny feeling in your stomach that your man is going to somehow “punish” you or withdraw just because you talk about what your dreams and your vision of love is, it’s almost impossible for what you want to come out in a way that’s calm, centered, and helps you create what you want with him.

    When you’re freaked out at the thought of what might go wrong by talking to him about it, and you’re imagining all the bad things that might happen, you’ve already created distance between you and him, and you’re sure to get a bad reaction from him.

    Here’s a little secret –

    The more comfortable and confident YOU FEEL about yourself, your life, and asking for what you want, the more comfortable other people (your man) are going to be with hearing from you.

    And the more likely you are to start getting what you want.

    But when you’re already wound up in your head and nervous, guilty, upset or anxious about talking to your man about something, the entire CONTEXT of your conversation becomes something that feels heavy and negative.

    And there’s no more certain way to have a man shut down emotionally than coming to him and starting a conversation with a flood of your own frustrations and fears –

    When what you really want is for him to see you, see your love, and begin to imagine with you all the amazing things that are possible in your future.

    So what are you showing him?

    From CCarter



  26.  #26Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Mercedes: Your birthday is sometime soon, eh? Is that what you were celebrating this weekend?



  27.  #27Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Lily T: Thank you so much…that is very sweet. Not everyone feels the same… lol

    LG: “I am blessed! The universe is constantly showering me with blessings and I don’t even notice because everything is not “perfect” in my eyes.”

    And if this is where you feel the lack of balance in your heart or your life then as you explore on your journey maybe the above would be a good place for some of the focus? Just a thought because I know for me, when I feel a lack of balance in anything (ie noticing blessing and things still not being perfect – as in your example from above), that’s where I tend to put my focus. That’s also where I tend to establish new boundaries so I can keep the balance where I want it.

    Not sure if that resonates with you but wanted to share how my growth and journey works for me. I work hard (meaning meditate, etc) on any piece of my life that feels out of balance. I love being able to balance without having to give up any one part of me while I try to be something else. I don’t think I share much of that journey here (other than what’s in the past). Hmmm…I wonder if I want to create a balance around that as well. Or if I want it only on my blog because the process is different than what is taught here?? I don’t know. I feel much more free there but I also feel much more alone there and not sure if my motivation would be to simply write about it or if it would be more about actually sharing it.

    Something to think about. In any case, I’m glad we’re all having this conversation.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  28.  #28Senior Lady Vibe on April 11, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Rori:

    “…So as you write – privately in your journals, and here, on this monumental journal of all of us – see if you can share your deepest feelings without involving other people at all…(except to set context by saying lightly what happened to trigger you…)…”

    I learned not to do the “you-you” many years ago. I realize when I hear or read someone do this, and I’m the “you-you”… sometimes my reaction is to return in the same fashion and “kick it up a notch”… or fifty-eleven. I will work on not doing this.

    There are other forms of “you-you” too. One of them is the FM… constructed in what I think of as the

    “I feel your liver and your appendix” model.

    And there’s also the seeing “you-you.”

    “I see you are angry because her puppy is prettier than yours” and I also see your liver and your appendix.”

    The knowing “you-you”, the hearing “you-you”, the smelling “you-you?” and on and on…

    “you-you” 😛 ya-ya 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  29.  #29Lily T. on April 11, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Thank you Laughing Goddess for #22. I needed to read that today. Smiles.



  30.  #30Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 9:24 am

    LG: Yes…it’s coming on Wednesday and I had a very wonderful friend here to celebrate a little early with me and J had a surprise party for me. The entire weekend was amazing and fun and special. Thank you for remembering. 🙂

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  31.  #31Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Mel others might disagree with me here but I don’t use “I feel ignored” because my sense is that it could easily be accepted as “You are ignoring me”. I would also suggest next time to start with the second sentence first to put the context in a positive light. I am wondering if you were animated in any way showing your excitement, or were you just using words and tone? However it seems great that you are trying and that you are getting some good responses. It is a process and he will need to relearn how to treat you. I guess when we are on the lower parts of the roller coaster it is a little bit tolerable.



  32.  #32Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:27 am

    RE 30 Congrats Mercedes. I too got a surprise party yesterday afternoon so it was a double whammy for me with my dad coming home from the hospital Friday. The house was full.



  33.  #33Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Mercedes:

    “And if this is where you feel the lack of balance in your heart or your life then as you explore on your journey maybe the above would be a good place for some of the focus?”

    Ya, I agree. This feels like a good place to focus for me.

    I am such an “achiever” in a way. I am also looking to improve things and I would really like to slow down and take time to appreciate things a bit more.

    After having that experience of gratitude last night, I woke up feeling so much more positive and energized than I normally do.

    Yes, I want to move more in this direction!
    Weeeeeeeeeeeee! 🙂



  34.  #34Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 9:29 am

    FW: YAY for parties and DOUBLE YAY for your dad coming home!!!! 🙂

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  35.  #35Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:32 am

    RE 22 Thanks for sharing that LG. My resolution last year was to start each day with gratitude. It does make a difference when we look for something to be grateful about because when we find it, most other things seem to pale in comparison.



  36.  #36Mercedes on April 11, 2011 at 9:32 am

    LG: LOL! Looks like you’re going to have a lot of fun with this! 🙂



  37.  #37Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Mel I have to say I am impressed with him connecting with you when you wanted to and apologizing when he recognized your feelings, even in light of his previous disappearing behavior.



  38.  #38Lorelei on April 11, 2011 at 9:38 am

    FW – re post 17

    Interesting ideas – financial precariousness as undermining his masculinity . . could well be. And yes, some values are apparently different. He has also had serious skin cancer in the the past, and still has to have very regular check-ups . . he seems to feel very vulnerable about that, and made a big thing of telling me in case I wanted to cut and run immediately.

    Despite his expressed hopes that I will row the boat, I’m just going to lean back!



  39.  #39Mel on April 11, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Femininewoman,

    How would you express the feeling ignored sentiment? Can it be broken down further to sound less blaming?

    I too am happy when I see Rori’s tools work. I have to stay focused on the positive, which will keep me sane when the roller-coaster falls again. Hopefully the twists and bends will become less frequent though.



  40.  #40Mel on April 11, 2011 at 9:53 am

    I heard something interesting from Alison Armstrong…

    When men say “I love you” they really mean “I love you.” When women say “I love you” they often MEAN “I need you.”

    This makes me wonder if maybe I should think about the times I say “I love you” and ask what my intention is in that moment. If it is truly a moment of admiration, I will say it. But I wonder if my “I love you’s” are often coming from a needy place?



  41.  #41Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Mel not sure we can stay on the positive, especially when we are not feeling it. Did you feel sad because the conversation came to an abrupt end? Were you feeling insignifcant because you felt the other conversation was more important? These are the types of question I would encourage you to explore to really become clear about how you felt and how you could express it.



  42.  #42Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 9:55 am

    RE 40 Yes yes yes Mel. I have heard Katherine Scott encourage us to do that.



  43.  #43Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Yes, I felt sad and insignificant. Like what I had to say was not important. Should I have said “I feel insignificant right now.” ?



  44.  #44sloane on April 11, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Hi-
    I am new to this blog, as I have just recently come upon the website and Rori Raye.. and am about to purchase one of the programs. I find it truly inspiring to read the blogs and thank you for the insight. The intelligence and ability to share openly and learn, is inspiring. Femininwoman- I especially enjoy your posts and how you contribute so beautifully to the conversation. If you or any other ladies could recommend which program to start with.. as they all sound fantastic!.. I am sorta torn between the Siren and the Blueprint.. so any input would be great and I look forward to reading and engaging in the posts. Thank you!



  45.  #45Luzydel on April 11, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Myself and Me are having a good time toguether. Myself wonders if she really wants to date men again, Me suggests to keep that option open without forcing it. Myself does not want to do online dating right now, she is having fun dating the world. Today instead of ordering coffe to go, she sat and enjoyed the coffee, an older man came to her with his grand son and talk to her and complimented her big brown eyes. Then one guy who work at the coffee place came to her and also started a conversation and asked her if she needed anything.

    Me tells myself to be patient its been a week since this experiment started. Myself needs practice to let her walls down and let people in. We don’t know what will happen, but it is getting to be fun.



  46.  #46Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:12 am

    How about I feel sad and insignificant right now? Though I would also suggest to look internally to the reasons why would feel that way aside from focussing on what he did? Do you have any memory of a significant male other that you had similar experiences with and felt some similar way? Maybe your dad or an teacher? Could it be that his action to you back to the feelings from other experiences.

    I remember such an experience when I was in someone’s office sharing my feelings about another situation. He told me to sit on a chair in a corner and before I realized what was happening I hestitated. It was when he beckoned to me the second time that I realized I was feeling like a schoolgirl being punished. I could laugh at myself in the moment and wondered where that came from. When I finally shared it with him he asked me if I noticed that his office was small and that there was not much room to place the chair anywhere else. I was a really eye opening experience for me.



  47.  #47Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:13 am

    RE 44 People seem to prefer Blueprint and thanks for the complement.



  48.  #48Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Oh Luzydel my heart light is feeling the warmth and openness of your heart light. That felt really beautiful, thanks for sharing your process.



  49.  #49sloane on April 11, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Fantastic.. thank you. It can be a bit overwhelming with all the different newsletters and all. I tend to feel anxious when wanting to learn something new and feel impatient about seeing results. I have read the e-book and many of the posts and articles.. and have tried a few of the tools and completely get how opposite I have been acting and how the old model for relationship doesn’t work nor serve me. Now, I am, just hoping to learn what is needed and “do it right”.. ahh the constant, gotta get it right syndrome.. lol.. anyhow.. thanks!



  50.  #50Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:23 am

    RE 49 Hope you are not a perfectionist because the way I see it is that it is a process and we all make mistakes and have sometimes to start over from scratch.



  51.  #51Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Re 46

    Interesting…

    Growing up in my family I often felt insignificant and unheard. My parents and sister would often cut me off or stop listening to do something else. Being cut off really triggers me.

    I still think it’s a rude thing to do to someone though, so it’s not just that his actions triggered me, but also that it felt really rude and uncaring. Perhaps if I hadn’t grown up feeling this way I might not take it so personally though… so I can see what you are saying.

    I also HATE it when he raises his voice and curses in a disagreement. My day swore at me all the time and I hated it. Should I say something like: “My dad often swore at me and it made me feel horrible and afraid. I feel triggered right now and my body feels really tense.”

    What do you think?



  52.  #52Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:32 am

    I meant dad not “day”



  53.  #53Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:32 am


  54.  #54Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:38 am

    How about “I feel scared right now and my body feels really tense.”

    Also how about “I feel really taken care of when you listen to me, is now a good time to talk”, before telling the story. It will give him, in my opinion, the space to signal his availability and then if he cuts you off he will most likely be aware of his part in how you feel. You might not even have to say anything in such a case. Walking away could trigger him to come looking for you. Then maybe you could really speak your truth with passion.



  55.  #55Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:38 am

    It was dark.
    I dont know what I feel.
    X gave me money. He came to meet me in hospital and gave me money.
    Long silences.
    He tried to show his concern by asking all sorts of questions.
    Offering me lunch.
    And I saw he is that old self again- after sending me a mail that was so so insulting and humiliating, after saying he wants me not to bother him again, he acted as his old self- smiling, all too nice, asking questions about health and showing concern, doing little talks- I felt numb.
    I sat there numb.
    I am not worried about that anymore. I wanted money. I got money. I told him what my actual expense was. He gave only half of it. I didnt want to bargain. If he cant be even decent with money, I have nothing more to say.
    This is my last encouter with X. I dont want to see him any more.
    I dont want to meet him anymore.
    I dont want to talk to him anymore.
    I dont want anything to do with him anymore.
    Meemee



  56.  #56Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Mel this is not a feeling ” it felt really rude and uncaring”. It is focussed on him not you. What do you think?



  57.  #57Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:41 am

    RE 55 Meemee I believe he is scared he knows you have power to hurt him.



  58.  #58Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Re 56:

    Oh I know! LOL. I wouldn’t say that to him. I guess I was just commenting to you that although I had bad experiences with being “cut off” in my childhood, I do believe that this is one of those common courtesy things. That while I might be extra sensitive to it, it IS a rude thing to do nonetheless. I guess I’m just trying to justify my sensitivity. LOL funny.



  59.  #59Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I feel so enraged within myself.
    I feel so so furious that i will have to listen people talking about his marriage.
    That he will send me his marriage invitation.
    I feel fear.
    That fear that he lost nothing in this game of sleeping with me for 3 years and moving ahead in his life and I am so stuck here.
    I am afraid of getting stuck.
    I am afraid of getting stuck in this cloud.
    I am afraid I will have days and nights where I cry and hurt myself where he will be preparing for his marriage and talking to his woman.
    I feel enraged.
    I dont want him. I have taken that decision. But before leaving he told me that I am doing everything wrong and gave me a list of things I should be doing instead of taking so much time to get over this.
    He stated once again that i am wrong.
    That enrages me a lot.
    That is killing me from within.
    I want to tell myself that I was not wrong.
    I am not wrong.
    Meemee



  60.  #60Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:46 am

    I want to write a lot here.
    Meemee



  61.  #61Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:47 am

    RE 51 Mel I am not saying it is not rude but it is something many of us do. It is also focussed on what the other person is doing. I am wondering if sometimes when talking to him if you could check in with him to see if he is still engaged. As in what do you think or am I going on too long?

    I have also heard a coach say when a man screeches in disagreements we should just put up our hand and say “STOP”. She encourages doing it two times and if he continues to just walk away. I have done it with a boss a little differently. He was raising his and I just said I don’t like the raised voice or your tone so I am leaving. I am willing to continue the discussion when you are more rational. The coach suggests suggests something similar as in “I can see you are feeling a little off right now, I’m going to walk the dog”.



  62.  #62Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Meemee,

    You are not wrong. He was wrong for you. ♥



  63.  #63Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:49 am

    RE 58 I understood that Mel. However I believe that what we are thinking will somehow find its way out in our body language and they can pick up on it. Have you ever tried a gentle touch on hand as ask “can I continue what I was saying” in a soft tone.



  64.  #64Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:50 am

    The moment has arrived where i feel the depth of the pain.
    The deep pain of the mistakes i did.
    But i can not go back and change them.
    Memories are flooding into my head.
    The times I spent with him, the times he took my body into his arms. The times we made love.
    It feels inescapable from those thoughts.
    How do I stop those thoughts.
    I was recovering. I was on my journey to heal. But all of a sudden he writes a letter and I feel I have lost everything.
    The reality that he moved on before I could, He is grabbing his life when I struggle in pain and bad health.
    Its all thoughts. coming and going.
    Meemee



  65.  #65Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Meemee I understand you are working through your feelings but I sense that somehow for some reasons his words are important to you so you accept when he says you are wrong. Can you see that or am I wrong?



  66.  #66Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:53 am

    at times i hope he will send me one more letter at least apologizing.
    but he will not.
    “Mee i know that I have caused great pain and sorrow in your life. I dont even ask for forgiveness. Because i dont know it myself. You have no reasons to let me go off the hook. But then I should tell you this. I am getting married in near future. Its all fixed. I dont want to go ahead without letting you know.”
    aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

    Meemee



  67.  #67Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Meemee

    I am guessing how long this will last for him. He could not have met her two months ago. I would guess he must have been seeing both of you at the same time so she is entering a marriage already cheated on by a cheater. I might be wrong but I feel you are in a better position. You found out sooner, she will find out later and might not be able to do anything about it.



  68.  #68Mel on April 11, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Re: 63

    Good idea! I also like the checking in on him thing. “Sorry am I rambling?” “What do you think?” Is now a good time?”



  69.  #69Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Femininewoman
    There was a time in my life i trusted him so much. So much. I trusted his words and I trusted him with my body.
    When he behaved bad, i took a decision and I walked out.
    But then again pregnancy and abortion. The contact got established again.
    I was taking my baby steps. I was taking care of myself. I was feeling every feeling and was trying to get a grab on my life.
    Then he said again “You achieve nothing by doing all this. You have to get out, meet people, think instead of feel, then slowly others and I will be able to cntribute to your well being”
    He invalidated my feelings and hurt and pain. I got so confused.
    I dont want to trust his words. I dont want to belive that i way I have chosen towards healing is wrong and irrational.
    But his words scared me. what is i am wrong!!!!
    Meemee



  70.  #70Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:00 am

    He is not marrying someone he knows. His parents have found a girl for him and he is marrying her. At least thats what he says.
    Meemee



  71.  #71Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Mel one thing I am exprimenting with is body language. I understand men are visual so I share my feelings sometimes using animation. I say “I feel icky” while shaking my body and my hands. I have seen a man do that. If I enjoy something I will stand up close my eyes, maybe touch my heart area, move my head around a bit and say “aah”. I find some of them are mesmerized by such things. My reasoning is words are only about 5% of communication, most of the rest is body language and men are visual.



  72.  #72Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Which is traditional in your culture. Can you put yourself in the poor girl’s shoe?



  73.  #73Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Meemee if you could put yourself in her shoes I am almost certain you would not want to be her knowing what you know about him now. You are much better off than her.



  74.  #74Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:05 am

    RE 70 Plus he has lied so much already no one really knows if that is true. I am als wondering if his mother is a sympathetic woman who you could share your pain with?



  75.  #75Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:07 am

    I have two choices.
    I can unleash my wrath on him. I know his house. I know his home number. I can go straight to his house, tell his parents what happened and tell everyone what happened. I can go and slap him infront of all his friends in office. I can yell and make the world come to know about this.
    That means the end of his life. Everything he has hidden so far will come out. He will be in trouble. He will lose his parents. There will be real mess in his house.
    I can do that. With the anger that is fuming within me, I am capable of doing it.

    Or I can tell myself “Wake up Meemee. Its past. Its history. You lost three years. You can make up for that. Do things with dignity. Do nothing about him. Just go ahead and do the things to set your life straight”
    It hurts. It looks like a hard path. Dealing with rage and anger and hurt and so many other feelings.
    But it seems the best thing I can do to keep my dignity and cater to my self esteem. But going the first way will help me loosen my anger.
    Which path should I take??!!!!
    Meemee



  76.  #76Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:10 am

    RE 75 Only you can decide Meemee. Getting back at him won’t help you to heal however it might help another girl he might choose to prey 10 years later even when he is married.



  77.  #77Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Meemee read and absorb Rori’s article above.



  78.  #78Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:16 am

    I know his family is so much worried about their status and tradition.
    They are Hindu Brahmins. They will not even want him to marry someone from outside their caste.
    His dad is a powerful person and he is PA to the Prime minister.
    They have power. Absolute power.
    His mother will not even listen to me if i go and tell her this. They will see me as a bloody christian girl who spoiled their son and who is only reaping the results of getting involved with her son.

    I dont know her. But I am certain they will want to hush it up.
    Thats certain.

    Meemee



  79.  #79Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:20 am

    RE 78 Meemee that reminds me of a popular case here in the US and Aruba with a guy named van der Sloot. It seems that life eventually caught up with him. Taking care of yourself is the best option. Let you faith lift you up.



  80.  #80Mel on April 11, 2011 at 11:21 am

    “Revenge has no more quenching effect on emotions than salt water has on thirst.”



  81.  #81Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Agreed Mel. I am hoping Meemee sink into her feelings on this. I am also hoping that she looks at the full picture of what she is dealing with to see things clearly for herself what is her best option. Sometimes we have to look at the full scenario to get clarity.



  82.  #82Mel on April 11, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Perhaps it depends on your intentions Meemee…

    Is your intent to protect another girl from being hurt or to get back at him?



  83.  #83Senior Lady Vibe on April 11, 2011 at 11:34 am

    @78: Meemee says:
    “…His mother will not even listen to me if i go and tell her this….”

    Hi, (((Meemee)))

    Yes, my life experience tells me this is so… it would be easier for them to believe bad things about you, or even if they suspect the truth they will pretend to believe him. Why? Simply because that way their life continues as they wish it to.

    Please do not waste another breath on this man. Tend to your life. Come here and riff and talk all you want to. Do the NO CONTACT RULE and try Rosa’s Tool below when you are ready. This will help you replace the painful ones:

    Just my ideas… Take care, dear girl.

    A Great Tool From Rosa – The Stop Sign

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/heal-your-heart/a-great-tool-from-rosa-the-stop-sign/

    xoxo
    SLV



  84.  #84Senior Lady Vibe on April 11, 2011 at 11:40 am

    @Meemee

    Re: Rosa’s Tool, I meant to type “This will help you replace the painful ideas.”

    xoxo
    SLV



  85.  #85Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Meemee You could also write on here what you would say to his mother if that was an option. Others will get the opportunity to looking at it as an outsider and give their perspective. What do you think?



  86.  #86Mel on April 11, 2011 at 11:56 am

    I LIKE the stop sign tool!



  87.  #87KS on April 11, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Meemee,
    If it were me I would probably lash out and tell ANYONE who would listen who that a$$hole REALLY IS! That has been my pattern in the past….to lash out and “hurt back” when things like this happen.

    Disclaimer***** Though this feels INCREDIBLY liberating AT FIRST….there is a crash afterwards and you are still left to work through the pain, hurt, humiliation, rage, anger, regret….

    I know you will make the right decision for YOU MeeMee. Lots of love to you!



  88.  #88Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    I have not read this post when I started writing here today.
    Now i went back and read it.
    I am re reading it to digest it completely
    But i feel this post is apt
    and its written for me 🙂
    Meemee



  89.  #89Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    I just did something something.
    I was chatting with a friend.
    I wanted to talk to him.
    So he came online.
    He said he wants to say some things before he starts listening to me
    Then he started telling me lots of problems he is facing
    I listened.
    He needed some help with his PhD proposal. So I gave it.
    Then he said he is going off and is feeling sleepy.
    I felt irritated and angry.
    I didnt say that.
    I dint ask him to stay and listen to me. I didnt respond.

    I logged off.
    I feel good. 🙂 🙂
    Meemee



  90.  #90Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    KS
    I have done that.
    And i know what you are saying
    When I went and told X’s friend about the pregnancy and abortion, it felt liberating.
    It still feels liberating when i think of that moment.
    But later i dealt with my own fears and speculations and endless mental analysis
    🙂
    Meemee



  91.  #91Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Mercedes #4 I hear ya! Lol. Good description. I have learned to do what Rori is describing with my ex-h. It has been phenomenonal. They key is to really get in touch with your genuine deep down emotions, and then express them – vulnerable and bare as Your emotions separate from whatever he did. Rori, if you are reading, my question is: what if it’s a situation where you are concerned about the man emotionally harming Others who may be naive to his tactics? How do you warn or protect them if you can’t talk a



  92.  #92KS on April 11, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    MeeMee,
    Please understand I am not good with non-blaming communication. I have done MANY things that were not in my best interest for a man. But please ask yourself…..” How did you FEEL being asked to AND giving help to a man who has treated you this way?”
    I feel for you right now beautiful siren! I know the crazy things “LOVE” can led us to do…..



  93.  #93Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    RE 88 & 90 I am glad about this. It shows you are processing and looking at everything rather than just using the knee jerk reaction. I find for myself when I slow myself down, pause and look at everything I am more at peace when I make a final decision.



  94.  #94Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    about what he is doing wrong and why it is harmful? In such a case it’s not about my own personal feelings, except to the extent that I feel concerned and angry about what he is doing to others. Rori???



  95.  #95Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    RE 89 Meemee I see you felt good at the end. However, I would check myself if I am always there for friends and put myself second, most of the times, if I were you. Reason being in building a romantic relationship you might do the same thing, allowing them to easily put you in the friend zone.



  96.  #96Daria on April 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Ks – I think Meemee helped a different man online



  97.  #97life_is_too_short_to... on April 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    75. MeeMee
    Try not to do (or not do) anything that you will regret later, from unexamined knee-jerk reactions
    or fear, and endeavor to do things for the right reasons.

    Personally, I believe that you should not let this guy off so easy.

    When my husband and I were preparing to divorce, i so much wanted to just accept a few crumbs he wanted to throw me to walk away in order to spare myself a bad fight and get away from all the negativity. After all I had brought to the marriage, my father would not let me do it.

    I hung in there, stood up to him, and received what we deserved and needed, and he got to fulfill his some of his responsibility to the situation.

    It was not about getting revenge. He did very well in that department himself, he needed no help from me.

    MeeMee, you sincerely gave this man quite a lot, and it turned your life upside down.

    You need to get the full amount of money from him for your health expenses. You do not need to say anything else, but say “I need you to provide the full amount”. Period.

    If he will not, you may have to tell him you will have to go to his family and ask them to take care of this.

    Look, he is being very impersonal and uncaring with you, and only concerned with himself and how everything affects him, so you need to take matters into your own hands to take care of yourself here.

    It is not about you getting revenge. It is you standing up for yourself, but letting him know that he cannot continue to act in the manner he has, not just with you, but with others, without there being natural consequences to deal with.

    Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to take action and do something like this, when we would rather shrink away and crawl under a rock and disappear.

    So, either you deal with this situation on this level, to get what you need here, what he is responsible for, and then move on, or,

    The other option is to walk away from it, now, completely, not do another thing
    and never look back, and know that what will be, will be, for all involved.

    Neither way makes you a saint or a sinner. It doesn’t work that way.

    We are all here supporting you, MeeMee, no matter what.

    xxoo



  98.  #98Daria on April 11, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    I would feel uncomfortable to give strangers advise about a man. I would only be sharing my opinion … Which is not the truth, just perception. Perhaps in their energy fields the man winds up treating them well. And they did not ask me for advise, so I’m intruding.

    This might change if I sense real physical danger… I feel unsure… I would just follow my intuition.



  99.  #99Daria on April 11, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I have never felt good listening to a jilted ex’ advice about a man. It didn’t seem to cone from a genuine place, well, maybe I’m not open to that.

    I figure men make mistakes. If this woman is so invested in ME and doesn’t know me, something feels off. I judge her as unhealthy and meddling, and most likely trying to undermine my connection with a man she still feels attached to.

    I have never felt like warning other women. I usually feel awkward and uncomfortable and would feel like I was putting myself in drama. Or projecting… That I really care for a stranger when I can use that energy on me or people in my life.



  100.  #100Alonka on April 11, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Meemee

    Just reading quickly thru the blog – one thing is that no woman will be happy or have a decent life with him – he will wrong anyone. Just unlike you, she won’t be able to escape. Can you imagine a life of surviving thru his abuse – because what he is doing to you is an emotional abuse. He will not change.

    Dealing with his family of friends will only put you deeper into this. What would you like to achieve? To turn his mother against him? It won’t happen. To get justice about your situation? it will happen naturally, no worries about that. I’d say the best approach is not to do anything and even limit your posts on the blog about this, just DROP it. Cut your losses, really. It’s not your life anymore – be grateful for that and RUN. Hope your health gets back to normal soon!

    Just my two cents.



  101.  #101Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Mel – The fact that hubby’s behavior reminds you of childhood situations and feelings is significant. This was the case with me as well. I felt unseen (sad and lonely) by my parents and ended up in a marriage where I felt unseen (sad and lonely). Accding to many teachers this happens bc we are unconsciously recreating childhood events to try to heal them “this time around” – but what we Really need to heal is the original wound. So that means forgiving our parents and giving love attention understanding to



  102.  #102Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    the little girl inside us. It means hugging her and correcting any misbeliefs she created around what happened, e.g. “I’m not loveable.” We tell her you Are loveable – your parents were doing the best they could – it says nothing about your value. You are loveable just bc you are you.” Etc. What do you think?



  103.  #103Mel on April 11, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Hi Lucy,

    Something to think about! What do you think about the fact that it has only recently become this way? For example, he didn’t used to swear at me during disagreements. I used to feel listened to, etc… We have been together close to 10 years, but it is only in the last year that these things have manifested.

    Could I somehow be … not the cause of… but creating this dynamic by reliving childhood experiences during this “low” time in my life?

    Could not respecting myself and my boundaries be causing others to treat me in disrespectful ways?

    It all seems so strange…



  104.  #104life_is_too_short_to... on April 11, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    I’m really seeming to be liking not completely writing off men with whom I have spent some time with, but may not clicked with. If they keep calling, as long as they are not stalking, or abusing. I can stay open to them as friends, practice the tools I want with them, have fun and stay open to surprises. (part of Rori Third Way). I really do think you have to be friends first, anyway. So, I am still in contact with the two last guys and can compartmentalize feelings, meaning I am not thinking about them or our relationship all the time.
    It feels healthy!!

    “I am looking for friendship initially. I want to meet and get to know people. Perhaps the man will come along who is right for me and ready for the long haul adventure. I don’t want an instant relationship. Meanwhile, I am appreciating dating and having fun.

    For me, sex comes with relationship and commitment and caring. these things are a package deal and I feel safe and sensual when a man cares for me in an ongoing relationship. Casual sex feels all wrong and is not for me. I don’t want to be fwb.”
    ~Rose



  105.  #105Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Daria – I was not at all referring to warning other women about a past lover, although I can clearly see how it could have seemed that way. I was talking about in general, if for example, your mom hires someone to fix your roof and you have heard he ripped hundreds of ppl off and actually damaged their property etc. Would you not tell your mom this and then she can choose what to do? And would you use FM’s and never say “he did such and such”? What do you think? (I’m with you about the jilted lover thing.)



  106.  #106Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Or another example – say your bff joins a cult where there are all sorts of dangerous and harmful things going on (I won’t mention details of the one my bff was in since some ppl abhore “extreme examples”) would you just tell her “I’m afraid, worried, etc.” without talking about what ppl are actually doing there so that she can see the problem?



  107.  #107Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Mel – I’m not sure. I will say, though, that it happened that way in my marriage too – things seemed pretty good for about the first 10 years. We had three small children and maybe they were a buffer hiding the issues for awhile – and maybe your guy’s studies were a buffer. As our children got older and less dependent I started to feel the disconnect more in my marriage. He too for some strange reason started swearing around that time! Weird. For my exh it was probably bc he had started going to places wher



  108.  #108Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    where swearing is prevalent – rowdy bars, red light districts, etc.



  109.  #109Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Sirens
    Thank you for all your comments.
    I feel somewhat calm now.
    I feel some happiness inside.

    Now i am off to sleep.
    I have a plan for tomorrow. this is what i intend to do
    1. I will go and rejoin gym
    2. I will write for some time. work on my thesis for some time
    3. I will eat food thrice no matter how bad i feel.

    No matter how bad i feel, i will get up from bed and do these things.
    This sounds like a very small thing to do to get over something that hurt me so bad.
    I have to start from somewhere. and this is where i want to start from.
    fromLoving my body.
    Meemee



  110.  #110JNB on April 11, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Yes, Meemee! I was just writing a comment on choosing Love…not the fearful response to your situation. You have chosen to take steps to Love YOU. How wonderful!!

    I feel so happy for you 🙂

    Lurker-JNB



  111.  #111Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Step no 1
    I blocked him on my mail.Not just on chat, but on mail too. i filtered him.
    I wanted to delete all the chats i had with him and the mail he sent me.
    Then i decided against deleting them
    I forwarded everything into another account which i hardly use.
    Thats my protection against myself.
    If at any point in time he does or says anything to hurt me more, I want those mails to protect me against his lies.
    Meemee



  112.  #112Elizabeth on April 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    subscribing



  113.  #113Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    I am enjoying a smoke now.
    I took a warm water bath.
    that makes me feel nice.
    I am wearing a new night dress i bought yesterday.
    Its peach and beautiful.
    Meemee



  114.  #114Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    Suddenly i got reminded of the pair of golden anklets I lost last month.
    That was my favorite.
    I grive that loss now.
    I will get a new pair when i get money next month.
    I love wearing anklets.
    Meemee



  115.  #115Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Its 3 am here.
    in a couple of hours the sun will rise.
    I hope it will be a new sun rising for me.
    and it will bring me joy
    Meemee



  116.  #116JNB on April 11, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I hope so too, Meemee.

    Love to you… and the rest of the Sirens

    ~JNB



  117.  #117LD on April 11, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    HotArmyGuy: “Hey Beautiful, I just got done moving my stuff in and wanted to give you a call.”

    Me: “It feels great to hear from you. How do you like your new house?”

    HotArmyGuy: “I like it alot. Location is good, view is good. The only thing missing is you sitting here next to me.”

    *****SIGH******

    : )



  118.  #118Lily T. on April 11, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    @LD
    ****SIGH*** I feel envious reading that. 🙂



  119.  #119LD on April 11, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    I’m starting to feel bored with ministerCDs incessant sexual texts. It was exciting at first, but after getting to know HotArmyGuy who has been to see me 4 times in 2 weeks and calls me every day and talks about alot of DIFFERENT things, ministerCd is starting to feel like a horny teenage boy with nothing else to offer me. ALL he talks about now is making out with me and taking that further. HotArmyGuy offered to help me fix up my house after only a month of talking. MinisterCD has never offered to do anything for me in 3 months except give me orgasms lol.

    SOOOOOO glad I didn’t have sex with him last time I saw him. I thought I really wanted to and almost did. Thank goodness for unexpected chastity enforcing shaving accidents. : )



  120.  #120KS on April 11, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    LD,
    What happened to MinisterCD?



  121.  #121LD on April 11, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    LilyT,

    Trust me, it has taken me a very long time and a lot of work to start getting to the good guys. I’ve kissed more frogs than I care to admit. Don’t know what will happen with HotArmy Guy, but I’m so enjoying it right now….



  122.  #122KS on April 11, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Opps Nevermind. LMAO



  123.  #123LD on April 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    KS,

    We made out heavily on our last date and since then all he talks about is sex. Seriously. Nothing else. AND he always wants ME to drive to HIM for sex. He lives 2 and a half hours away. I almost gave in last time and so glad I didn’t.

    At first, he came to see me and treated me with alot of respect. But since making out, it’s like he has a one track mind and I’m starting to feel bored with it…



  124.  #124KS on April 11, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    LD,
    Sorry he turned out like that. Funny though….seems to be just one more advantage of CD’ing (maybe because you have others his behaviors are clearer to you?????). Interesting.



  125.  #125tinque on April 11, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    SLV – Tomorrow? I sent you an e-mail a few days ago.

    xxoo



  126.  #126Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    MEEMEE>>>
    For me, the man X is the ROBBER Rori describes…and she doesn’t advise not using you messages in that situation; she says go for it, he attacked you.

    I’d love to see Meemee hand his FATHER the abortion bill and proof that his son paid for it!!!

    Maybe she can’t change how his mother feels – but she surely could change how his father must coddle him.

    I am not at all sure it will be for your long term highest and best to let all this go – I think it will make you suspicious and bitter of men for a long, long time.

    I don’t advocate taking this all in in your condition and making it all about you –

    at the very very least, I’d make him pay for a therapist – pain and suffering….

    especially if he still desires to tell you why YOU are wrong.

    At best, I’d do just what you said, because how can everyone be saying, oh, that girl she’s going to be miserable, too? How does THAT help?!! Wow, so if her life sucks because no one knows the guy’s an as*…it’s all good.

    That is almost malicious, and it’s a very weird way to justify feeling better! by thinking of the harm he will do to someone else. Feels really un-siren-y to me…

    Feel better NOT by baby stepping your way to the gym, feel better by taking actions that allow you to heal, and perhaps protect everyone from someone who in a real sense, has “robbed” you.

    I wrote a post on my blog around this – about “pity”…but really maybe it’s compassion.

    Hope you will do the thing that creates the most power and health for you in your future!!

    xo,
    J



  127.  #127Queenbee on April 11, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Hope you are all having a great day! 🙂

    Quick one –

    I had an amazing Sunday date with my Amazing man 🙂 I leaned back and responded with warmth and openness. I had gone over some tools earlier on and by the time he came to pick me, i was feeling more relaxed and calm. I looked amazing as well 🙂 I dressed up in a Sunday brunch theme ‘trendy and chic’ 🙂 – light colours and soft fabrics. Anyway, he loved it and I felt amazing 🙂

    I feel good when I am with him. He feels very attentive to me. He brought up the future talk and took things forward.

    So I’m wondering two things –

    1) I’m not ready to give up the idea of CDing men. I don’t know why. Obviously he does not like the idea. He says he is ‘waiting for me’ now to decide – but obviously I’m not going to say the ‘I’m ready, you’re the one I want’ line. So I really don’t get what he is waiting for – I’m just doing my thing.

    I also feel that I still want to CD for my own sanity, finding out about myself, healing, growing…. and I also realise how needy and clingy I could get if I just forget about CDing just because he is taking things forward. I just don’t feel ready… and I truly want to be engaged when I feel ready and of course his declaring the commitment for me to feel safe and stop CDing other men.

    Anyhow, the question is, what if I CD another man. Do I tell him? I feel guilty… I would totally hide it from him. I feel he would walk away if I CDed another man and he found out. What does this mean? Am I the one avoiding emotional intimacy? Is it possible that I’m not that into him? Though I AM into him 🙂 but it feels like I’m not when I still want to CD even when he is taking the relationship forward.

    Actually what it feels like is taking care of me. I don’t actually have men lining up so it isn’t an imminent issue, but rather a mindset and something that I actually intend to DO when the opportunity presents itself 🙂

    What do you think Sirens?

    2) When we met, he had asked me to teach him piano. He is very passionate about the instrument etc. I am ready now to teach him but I feel weird about GIVING to him. I am more interested in him falling in love with me than him improving his piano skills – and both would be even better.

    The only solution I can think of is asking him to pay me half. I feel scared of communicating this. But I almost feel certain that if I GAVE to him, first, he would stop wanting to DO his lesson, then he would stop wanting to DO me 🙂 and I can’t have that now, can I?

    Of course I would be happy to receive the money and I’m fine not asking for the whole amount, coz that would feel weird to me.

    Do you think this would be weird considering that he is always paying for everything and takes care of me unbelievably well?

    What do you think Sirens?

    Please don’t suggest that he find another teacher because I would feel good teaching him and people tell me that I am highly rated in my town. So I do want to share my knowledge.

    I guess I would also feel bad if I shared my knowledge for free and if we ever broke up it would piss me off. I just don’t want to be a fool about this. …This feels weird – perhaps, this is my problem. Feeling undeserving of a great guy? Or it’s the NV 🙁

    What do you think Sirens?

    I truly believe that however I deal with this in the Siren-y way could bring us closer together and I feel interested in achieving deeper emotional intimacy with this man.

    What do you think Sirens? How can I go about this?

    Thank you and Love to all!!

    Meemee, don’t worry, you will feel better. Just take care of you. Terminating a pregnancy has a lot of emotions and very hard to deal with. Please take one step at a time, give yourself MORE love! I would journal and write down ALL my feelings….Thinking of you and sending you lots of love energy.



  128.  #128Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    test



  129.  #129Lilybelle on April 11, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    117: LD~

    Please send me one like HotArmyGuy..

    He sounds great!

    Lil

    I picked up the book today. 🙂



  130.  #130Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    LD I am amused to hear about ministercd and happy you have a choice to compare with.



  131.  #131Queenbee on April 11, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    #119 LD – LOL! ‘unexpected chastity enforcing shaving accidents. : )’

    Good one and good for you!



  132.  #132Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Queenbee happy to hear about your date. Not sure I can comment on your connundrum.



  133.  #133Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    RE 126 You know Jacqueline I never knew the day would come that I could possibly agree with you. That was genius.



  134.  #134Queenbee on April 11, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    #104 –

    “I am looking for friendship initially. I want to meet and get to know people. Perhaps the man will come along who is right for me and ready for the long haul adventure. I don’t want an instant relationship. Meanwhile, I am appreciating dating and having fun.

    For me, sex comes with relationship and commitment and caring. these things are a package deal and I feel safe and sensual when a man cares for me in an ongoing relationship. Casual sex feels all wrong and is not for me. I don’t want to be fwb.”

    I love this! And I’ve read it before (can’t remember which Siren said this). This feels like it has some relevance to me, but doesn’t sound like me. I don’t know if I ever want it to be. Though this Siren sounds really secure in herself. Perhaps I need some danger…. I feel adventurous and scared at the same time.

    – not wanting an instant relationship. – though he isn’t suggesting that at all. Just that while he dates and cares for me etc and falls in love with me, I need to be all his. LOL! eeek!! This feels good and bad at the same time. It’s no wonder I feel confused.

    – but the sex part with “relationship, caring and commitment” – what kind of commitment are we talking about? This can only be exclusive right? If we are practicing Rori tools?

    I don’t know about that bit. I’ve already had sex. I wanted to do it and felt good to me. If I feel safe and I want to express myself sexually, I do (in the most simplistic sense of that statement).



  135.  #135Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Welcoming Maggie…and high five, FW! Hi Queenbee, too…

    Chicago code coming on, going to go see a strong HERO woman pull strings – cool.

    Everyone take care and be well –

    SLV, I’ve missed you so sending you and sweet thang my best – yeah, that’s southern for you know who…haha!!



  136.  #136Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Something I was reading from the Matrix of the Mind

    You free yourself by being emotionally detached from choices. You trap yourself when you are attached to choices. Having the relationships you want also comes from being enlightened.
    The outer conditions mirror the inner consciousness.
    What governs your mind governs your reality.
    You can control what is without by controlling what is within. You can overcome something by overcoming what is within. When you overcome it within yourself, you overcome it in the world.



  137.  #137LD on April 11, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    KS,

    Re #124

    yeah, CDing does that for me. I’m able to compare behaviors and see who is stepping up and what I do and don’t want in a relationship. I don’t know what will happen with HotArmyGuy, but I do believe he’s showing me I want something deeper intellectually and emotionally than I have with ministerCD.

    I thanked the Universe for HotArmyGuy being sent to me and hope I can have “him or someone like him or better” as my true love. I’ve learned not to assume the Universe brings a great guy as the be all end all. Sometimes they are just here to bring a message or teach a lesson and they move on. So when I really like a guy, I say I want “him or someone like him or better” to show I’m open to my guy being whoever he will be as long as he’s the best one for me.



  138.  #138Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    133 FW. Lol! I have agreed with Jacqueline a couple times lately too! 🙂



  139.  #139LD on April 11, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Lilybelle,

    Let me know what you think of the book. I loved it. read it twice already. I wish I had the money to take a year off and make a spiritual journey like that!



  140.  #140LD on April 11, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Queenbee,

    I can only assume my guardian angel wields a mean razor lol…..



  141.  #141Femininewoman on April 11, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    jilly are you leaning back? Haven’t seen you, Alicia and CCookie



  142.  #142Mel on April 11, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Mel’s Mantra (ie. my goals for the week)

    -Attention will come to me because I deserve it; I will not seek attention in any way. If I crave attention, I will give it to myself.

    -If I want to be caressed, I will go outside or open my window, close my eyes and be caressed by the spring breeze.

    -I will only say “I love you” in moments of adoration or appreciation when the sentiment does not come from a needy place.

    -I will say less and feel more.

    -I will do what feels good in the moment.

    I’ll let you all know how it goes! 🙂



  143.  #143T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    For those sirens that are doing the online dating thing…please tell me how you handle seeing the person you just had a fantastic date with online…

    I am realistic enough to know that he will be still online since I am too, but it still makes my heart sink when I see the “Online Now!” message, or worse yet “IM Me Now!”. How does one handle that? Is it just my self esteem? High hopes?



  144.  #144Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Jacqueline, I can’t write on the “Rusty” thread now bc it’s too long for my phone. But I’m hoping you weren’t talking about Me with the dead horse comment there. As I said, I prefer not to talk about Evan anymore – and only responded to what someone else said, which was info telling us that the horse is not actually dead. Which is fine with me, but I don’t want to discuss the horse anymore. I totally agree with Rori’s attitude that they will both “stick to their guns.” We are all entitled to express our tho



  145.  #145Alonka on April 11, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    FW, Jacqueline

    About your advice to Meemee to go ahead and make a good juicy scandal out of the situation.. your blood and heart I should say.. I don’t know. When you do something like this you have to understand that you may well become ‘the story of the neighborhood’ for a while. Various people will talk about you or maybe even to you when you least expect it. Also this may backfire because your pain and your best feelings are sold cheap.. plus you may be surprised with the way the news is taken by his family. Either they will be on your side or they won’t.. you never know.

    It is a matter of choice at the end. In my life I chose to be proud and not talk. Not saying it’s right or wrong. Depends on your personality really and your values.



  146.  #146Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    thoughts. And that “we” includes me, as well as everyone else. I don’t care if people disagree with me – as Evan said it doesn’t affect me negatively, but it sure as heck might affect them. 😉



  147.  #147Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Mel, I like your mantra. 🙂 T-Girl, I hate when that happens. It’s just one of those things where you have to stay unattached to the outcome and know that the right man will be the right man. Tough emotionally though. 🙁



  148.  #148Alonka on April 11, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I’m concerned about Kaitlyn. I was in a similar situation once when someone I was so in love with walked away sounding that it was all my fault. I hated myself and loved him for the longest time. I thought it was a terrible mistake, but yes, all my fault that I wasn’t open enough to him. I couldn’t forgive myself for year maybe.. or longer. But I never ever thought about pills.. I would stop eating for a week or two and then bounce back.

    I do believe that people who are in love have magic power and I believe in taking the risk. Doesn’t mean that I am right. Again, in my situation eventually I learned that it was NOT all my fault and there was very little I could do to make the relationship work. But I had to live through it to find out. Would I take the risk again to find out? Yes, I would. And I wouldn’t wait for a year.

    Kaitlyn, how does it feel to take a deep breath and make a decision – to contact or not to contact him and then just make every effort to forget. Being stuck is draining.



  149.  #149Lily T. on April 11, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    @#144 “The Rusty thread” LOL!!!
    Perhaps will become knownst as the Infamous Rusty Thread?



  150.  #150Senior Lady Vibe on April 11, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    @125: tinque says:
    “…SLV – Tomorrow? I sent you an e-mail a few days ago….”

    Sending e-mail.

    xoxo
    SLV



  151.  #151Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Lucy – no I get that you are expressing your feelings around the issue, in a thoughtful and considered way – and we all make our own decisions, etc. Just felt “pushed” to a certain point of view and didn’t like it.

    Alonka, I hear you! So you really think his Daddy would tell the neighborhood? Because I wasn’t suggesting she should tell the ‘hood – maybe the father and the girl?

    And she is very bright, she will do – as she has shown us – what is best for her, I trust Meemee instincts and heart.

    It seemed so odd to me tho that people were saying the girl would be a form of revenge…what she would endure? How can that make it better and it seems like it lowers our status as sirens, to me….

    I wrote Emerson a note on another thread too. I worry about it whenever anyone says things like that – a lot.

    I want to tell them well, you might take the pills…and someone find you and revive you to come back brain damaged and develop cancer? Because the reason it’s near and dear to me is that it happened to me with my boss/best friend two years ago. And we were together all day every day, and she sounded so darn….cheerful….once she made the decision.

    Reading the note was possibly the most traumatic horrifying thing I’ve ever done – on par with turning the oxygen off on my mother and her passing within 60 seconds.

    In other words, there is so very very much collateral damage done and it’s not even the solution those who contemplate it think it is.

    I have every sympathy for Kaitylyn and would love to feel her get counseling, I just don’t know how to MAKE her do it.

    When my friend did it everyone was like, oh we should have got Jacqueline…she’d of stopped it. I’m not sure I would have in her case – it’s complicated and painful.

    I have only recently – like in the last 3 or 4 months – started feeling better. This happened about 3 months after my 10 year long rel. break up and it just…..threw my life into a tailspin I couldn’t overcome for a long time.

    Maybe that’s why I came here with such strong opinions?? or at least, why I’ve changed with Rori’s softness….

    and now I’m tearing up.

    Love to all….

    J



  152.  #152gina on April 11, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    I feel trigerred and feel like I’m best served to still write some people off as bad eggs. And it feels way easier to do that by striking at them than by expressing feelings. In feeling mode I still feel receptive, and that just doesn’t feel like a strong enough position against someone who’s trying to use me for selfish purposes. I mean I guess it’s possible to write people off without attacking I guess. But then it seems less about expressing and more about walking away. When dealing with a selfish, lying SOB – why bother sharing my pov with him. Eff him.

    Like last night, my friend had a hunch that this guy who she’s been hung up on for about 3 years was with some chick. So, we drove to his apartment and saw her car there. My friend was devastated, and for the first time she did finally tell him he’s a piece of crap, and now it seems like he’s finally willing to let her go. Whereas before, she would express herself and he would lie in order to keep her around. I know she wasn’t strong enough in her boundaries – I don’t get why she was sleeping with him. BUT, now that she’s destroying the relationship by letting him have it – it may finally be over. And it may not be as cool and classy as nipping it in the bud with some good boundaries from the get go. BUT, at least the relationship has been severed. and I like the power of “severed” more than “boundaries” when dealing with a real a-hole.



  153.  #153luzydel on April 11, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    No more dates for Me and Myself until the weekend. myself is feeling overwhelmed with so many things to do. On a serious note maybe not all women are meant to be with a man.

    Myself is liking the idea of not having a close relationship with a man at all. Why is that sad? or pathetic? What if the isses women are having is the lack of accepting that she can be alone?



  154.  #154Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Luzydel – guys ask me that all the time – and I love it that you’ve used the word pathetic, because the comments on my post on “pity” veering into pity equaling pathetic, I’m really interested. I think feeling self pity is NOT a bad thing, my commenters are so not agreeing. And, my friend read your me myself and wants to write a post on it…you’re a “muse!”

    For me, I am just happier living with someone; I know people who have made far different decisions and are happy with those. I lived alone long enough to know this for sure. I would live alone rather than “settle” tho!

    Gina – haven’t seen you in ages! I agree that when I read the post I was confused. I’m open to it, but I’m afraid I’d need tons of therapy talk to figure out how to not use YOU statements…smile. And good for your friend – most often I believe we DO find out a little farther into the relationship. Waay too many factors going into the heady romance at the beginning. Plus I think your friend is lucky to have you!



  155.  #155turquoise3 on April 11, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    I feel very sad thinking about all the energy and time I’ve devoted to men in my life who were not only not giving me the same, but often were hurtful, spiteful and caused great pain.

    All the worry, about what I said, or should have said, or didn’t say “right”, walking on eggshells to not make things worse, or upset him. Even though, my stomach was tied in knots for days at a time and first and last thoughts of my day, were about HIM.

    Compromising, and then denying what I wanted, because I wasn’t getting it, and it felt easier to say,
    “I really needed need that anyway.” Or, “It’s my fault, it wasn’t the right time, he was tired, overworked, busy, etc.” and believing that I was the wrong one, while he really didn’t do much of anything at all towards our relationship, except act like our well-being was not his responsibility.

    Pretending that we were ok, the future was bright, keeping the truth of where we were to myself, as to not worry my family or friends. Lying to myself because I didn’t want to believe the truth. He didn’t love me, or wasn’t in love with me, didn’t know what he wanted, needed space, time alone, wasn’t ready for a relationship, all excuses for me to wait and worry if he’d ever be ready or love me enough.

    All that time, energy, tears, sweat… lost, because instead of truly focusing it on myself, I was obsessed with figuring that man out, and why he behaved the way he did, said that awful thing, ignored me, hurt me, wasn’t on my side, lied to me, … and on and on and on.

    I want to want things for myself, I want to plan a future that I can create alone if necessary. I don’t want to be disappointed or discouraged, or worried that I’ll be on my own for the rest of my life. I want to thrive in my life, not just live through it.

    I want to step away from the pain, and storytelling and convincing of my past relationships. I want to step into the sun, and keep moving forward. I don’t want to look back and wonder what if. I want more, for myself. By myself, with a friend, with a lover or with a husband. I want more than where I’ve been.



  156.  #156Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Beautiful, Turquoise!! When I got to that place, I moved mountains in my life, I believe you will too!

    Goodnite all,
    J



  157.  #157LD on April 11, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Luzydel,

    I have accepted that it could go either way for me at this point. I want happiness for myself no matter whether that means happy and single or happy and with someone.



  158.  #158Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    ok i’m posting right now…that last few days i’ve started to read and catch up and then “life” happens and i haven’t been able to comment or share 🙁

    i just did a skim through and yes FW 🙂 i am leaning back like no one’s business 😉 thank you for asking…

    i did read your post not sure if it was earlier today… where you said mentioned that you experimented with “you” and he was a mature man and wanted to work through it…i liked that and i agree… 🙂 i’m glad you had a good birthday party!



  159.  #159Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    FW…i hope the above post made sense…my mind was going 100 miles an hour and now that i re-read it.. it sounds a little off lol



  160.  #160LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Jilly,

    100 miles an hour? Sounds like a great post to follow. How are things with hot pilot? : )



  161.  #161Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    ok lots of stuff going on…

    hotpilot and i spent quite a bit of time together and we had sex on friday night (wahoo!! 1 month of dating first..that’s the longest i’ve gone since highschool) not that it matters…just sayin’ 🙂

    so i was aware that he might pull away or need some “time” to do what ever and we actually talked about it and he brought it up…he was overwhelmed about not getting things done that he needed to (i actually think that he just needed space to recharge himself) which i know men need…so i suggested we do our own thing on Sunday..but he called wanting to see a movie together so we spent part of the evening together then i sent him home early 🙂 then today i had stuff to do could tell he missed me and he asked “when can i see you again?” and i said tomorrow would feel good…

    i think just “knowing” they need space after intense emotional time is key to feeling confident…i even needed my own recharging!!



  162.  #162Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    LD…i’m glad you are here!! lol my previous post was not the 100 miles an hour…there’s more..



  163.  #163LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Jilly,

    OMG how was the sex after all of the buildup?????



  164.  #164LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Jilly,

    ha ha we played opposite roles. You waited the longest since high school to have sex and I had 4th date sex with HotArmyGuy Saturday night after only having sex like 3 times in the past 2 1/2 YEARS total!!! MY IDEA! Never had sex that soon with anyone and feel ok with it!



  165.  #165Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    ok so hotpilot and i had sex (our makeouts are amazing!!) well he cums really quick…and i’ve never experienced this before 🙁 i think it’s even happened just during a makeout and that’s why we hadn’t had sex til now…i think it can get better??

    so it really makes me miss my pipeliner who was a master in the bedroom and could go for days lol and he was the perfect big size for me…(big sigh)

    anyway pipeliner has been calling me and i really missed him and now i feel pressured by him to be in a relationship with him…ugggg it feels horrible..we just got off the phone because i felt like i couldn’t breath…i didn’t have any room to feel my feelings because he was talking about how he felt about me the whole time..like if he said enough stuff i would change my mind…it felt bad…really annoying 🙁 he knows i’m dating someone else

    ok….what do i do about this sex situation with hotpilot?? any suggestions



  166.  #166Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    LD!!! that’s funny…we did switch roles lol i’m glad you feel good with it…i’m usually 3rd date sex lol



  167.  #167LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Jilly,

    This has happened to me ALOT in my life! They tell me I’m sexually intimidating and either can’t perform or go off too quickly. It will get better over time, he was just nervous and intimidated by you because if how attracted he is to you. Some of my guy friends tell me they actually prefer having sex with women they aren’t “crazy attracted” to because they can last longer….



  168.  #168T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Jilly – Is HotPilot older? That seems to be an issue with older men (at least in my experience). But you know there are things they can do to you first before he gets satisfied 🙂



  169.  #169T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Jilly and LD, I am so jealous of your hot sex talk…it has been about a month for me. My last time was with SexyOlderGuy. I told myself I am waiting and not jumping in anymore. But I am going crazy!!!



  170.  #170LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Jilly,

    HotArmyGuy was so afraid of doing it the first five seconds that he held off til he wasn’t even able to finish at all at first. I felt bad for him because I could tell he was physically uncomfortable. So I told him it was ok for the first time to be really fast cuz then we could do it again and it would take longer. So he agreed and the next morning we put that into practice and it worked out well for us!



  171.  #171LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    TGirl,

    Saturday night was only my 4th time having sex in almost 3 years so I feel your pain lol



  172.  #172Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    LD…ok…he did say that he gets too excited with me and that i’m the best kisser he’s ever kissed lol…i love it…he can’t stop touching me..and its in a good way..not too much…i’m sorry to say but i am glad you have experienced this because i like him alot but sex is important…i’ve had a lot of amazing sex in my life…and i don’t want to stop lol but i like him enough to work on it

    T-girl …he’s 34 and the youngest ive dated in 7 years..i usually date older at least 10 yrs older and never have had this…it kind of seems like an older older man’s issue…do we need to get viagra or cialis?? lol



  173.  #173LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Jilly,

    if you really like the guy, you can definitely work around that issue in several ways. In fact, I’ve even heard that a dominatrix can train a man to cum on her cue, whether it’s in seconds or hours. : )



  174.  #174LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Jilly,

    How old are you?

    HotArmy Guy is my age (45) and I will say that while the stamina is not the same as with a younger man (my ex was 13 years younger than me) the experience in some areas makes up for that. : )



  175.  #175LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Jilly,

    It may be a first time issue, but if it persists, you can get a c*ck ring and he may feel like he’s cumming but he stays hard and doesn’t actually physically release until you remove it, which can be as long as you need it to be…. : )



  176.  #176Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    LD….k i feel a little better now that hotarmyguy had something kinda similar.. so we’ve only had sex once and that was friday night….ok so on saturday night we were making out getting ready to have sex and he reached to get the condom and he totally lost his erection?? and then in the morning he put on one of those condoms that inhibits orgasms (supposed to be for the man so he can last longer) but it affects me too and he lost his erection then too…i felt really bad for him and tried to be understanding without over doing it…i can’t imagine what he felt like 🙁



  177.  #177Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    LD…i’m 31…and pipeliner is 35 and my ex before that was 36 and then 42 and then 43 🙂 and there was never an issue…ok i’m just going to have to become a dominatrix? 😉 and start experimenting…



  178.  #178Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    T-girl….so he texted you the other day…any updates?



  179.  #179turquoise3 on April 11, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Jilly, it will get better. He’s nervous, but this could explain why he was willing to wait. If this has been an issue for him the past, he could be worrying about not pleasing you. One suggestion would be for him to take care of himself earlier in the day. Another would be to not give him oral or any extra help before hand, then round 2 when he’s more in control, you can be more hands on….

    I haven’t had this happen in awhile, more the opposite, where it just lasts way too long, and I’m done, and tired. But, that got better too… as we got used to each other.

    Pipeliner may have been good in bed, but he’s long distance and you weren’t happy with that. Sex is important, but is it more important than building a potential future with someone? Try not to worry… I’m sure it will be ok. 🙂 Smaller is hard to get used to though, and I always feel bad about it, not their fault… but nature can sure be mean sometimes 🙂



  180.  #180Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    yes…i want to work through this…we have so much fun and he’s so sweet and sexy…so on saturday we had about 4 hrs of making out throughout the day and he said he could have worn a leather boot and still had an erection and i said ok next time you can wear a leather boot we are having sex lol…atleast we were joking about it



  181.  #181turquoise3 on April 11, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Thanks J. It’s time for big changes in my life. And I am the one who needs to make them. Won’t be easy, but I need to step it up and create the peace and good energy that are missing from it. I want to buzzzzz with contentment 🙂



  182.  #182LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Jilly,

    yep, all similar experiences to mine. You make him nervous.

    With HotArmyGuy, he was able to last long enough to make me “happy”, but he wasn’t able to finish and lost it as well after awhile. It came and went throughout the night, but wasn’t until the next morning when he realized I was gonna work with him on it that he really relaxed and it got better.

    But if just helping him get over his nerves isn’t enough, c*ck rings are amazing for men with performance anxiety. Just catch ’em when they’re hard and slap that baby on and don’t take it off until you’ve had enough… : )



  183.  #183Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    hey Camile 🙂

    thank you for the encouragement! and the reminder with pipeliner…it’s like i was missing him and then tonight on the phone i couldn’t wait to get off…

    ya…it will probably just take time like you guys are saying and that’s ok too…i’m not in a hurry…and when he is fully erect he is a good size…so i’m excited about that lol…but ya..i have wondered why “nature” would make some men big and some men small…

    ok now my mind is calming down i can breath and i don’t feel so overwhelmed with pipeliner



  184.  #184T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Jilly,

    No updates. He was out golfing and thought of me because I was taking golf lessons. He asked me if I was off today but I’m not off until Friday. So maybe he was going to ask to see me today I don’t know…

    I am not getting my hopes up on anything but he is the one guy that really makes my blood hot…in a good way.

    He is a very positive, upbeat person, but right now he is taking things too casually. Especially since I have been seeing him off and on since November. 🙁



  185.  #185Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    LD…ok…he’s going to be shocked when i tell him to close his eyes for a minute lol…totally joking 🙂 thank you for that advice i feel better about the whole situation already…



  186.  #186Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Jilly, those issues are Very common for 1) young guys 2) guys who haven’t had much sex, especially recently 3) guys w a hot new partner 4) guys who feel nervous. As long as you both feel good about the process and don’t panic or judge it, it Will improve. As you get more comfortable together he will try different things that can help. Trust his lead. Most of all don’t take it personally, either for you or for him. It’s very normal and very fixable. It may just be a matter of time and experience together.



  187.  #187LD on April 11, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    TGirl,

    What’s ur story with ur guy?



  188.  #188Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    T-girl…ya casually is not fun..i’m sorry 🙁



  189.  #189Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Lucy thank you!!

    i seriously could not wait until i could talk about it with you guys…now i’m so glad i was finally able to cause now it’s ok if i don’t judge it…does that sound weird..i felt unsure of what i should even think and that felt bad



  190.  #190T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    LD,

    Started dating in November and had sex on fourth date. He just made me feel so good, so feminine, I couldn’t help myself. Then he had back surgery and was out of commission for awhile. Then the communication pretty much stopped.

    Then he texted me on Valentines Day at 10:30 at night which I thought was kind of odd. We saw each other two times after that, had sex the last time I saw him. Communication stopped again.

    I leaned forward and texted him only to get an instant message back saying “message blocking was active”. I thought that meant he was blocking my messages only but apparently not. I texted him on Monday to see if it would go through (I know, bad, bad) and he responded that he was happy to hear from me. I told him I tried texting him before and about the blocking message. He said his phone must have been messed up. I don’t buy it but I figure that is his personal business and I won’t pry. Then he texted me yesterday from the golf course.

    So, not sure what will happen in the future. We always have fun together, no drama, no issues. I’m sure there are other women in his life. I’m trying to be the “cool girl” and maybe rise above the others.

    But of course, I have other men in my life too 🙂 He is my favorite though.



  191.  #191Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Camile…i don’t like it when the man lasts too much longer than i do either…



  192.  #192LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    TGirl,

    I hope it works out in whatever way is best for you…



  193.  #193Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Also, Jilly, testosterone levels are higher in the morning so everything works better then.



  194.  #194LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Jilly and Camille,

    I’m like Goldilocks. I don’t like it to last too short OR too long, but “just right” LOL



  195.  #195T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Casual would be ok if I didn’t like him so darn much. The other men I meet seem to have drama. He has none. Well, none between the two of us anyway…not sure what happened with the message blocking thing.



  196.  #196LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Lucy,

    YEP! It was wayyyy better with HotArmyGuy the next morning….



  197.  #197T-Girl on April 11, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    LOL about Goldilocks!



  198.  #198LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    TGirl,

    Just keep saying “if not him, then someone like him or even better” That works for me….



  199.  #199Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    ok good to know…i’ve stayed over 3 or 4 times now and he always presses me against him in the morning and i love it!! and then he kisses my neck…ok…i’m feeling turned on just remembering lol

    and he never has bad breath even in the morning..i love his smell

    we’ve been cooking dinner together…we both workout and like to eat healthy…that part has been really fun



  200.  #200Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    LOL…totally agree with the Goldilocks!!



  201.  #201LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Jilly,

    I had an ex once that never ever had bad breath-even in the morning or after eating garlic or drinking coffee. I LOVED that!



  202.  #202Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    LD 196. See! 😉



  203.  #203LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Lucy,

    yeah, plus he woke me up by touching my face and brushing my hair off of it in the most tender way that totally made me melt…. : )



  204.  #204Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    sigh. I feel so jealous!



  205.  #205Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    So nerves can make or break an erection?

    interestlingly…pipeliner would get inappropriate boners…if we were having a serious talk he would get a boner or if he was emotional or giving me a hug to comfort me…of course i didn’t mind…but it was interesting…but he could masterbate 10 to 15 times a day…crazy…yes sex was his favorite hobby



  206.  #206LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Lucy,

    If you only knew how long it has been since I have had any of that…



  207.  #207LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Jilly,

    sounds a lot like a sex addiction that pipeliner had…



  208.  #208Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    LD…that sounds really sweet and tender and WOW 🙂 and he’s offered to help you with things…i like that!



  209.  #209LD on April 11, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Jilly,

    I like it too. I try to do things around the house myself, but it makes me feel really good if a man offers to help me with projects…..

    ****SIGH***** I LIKE this guy.

    I feel an attitude of gratitude. Thanks Universe!



  210.  #210Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    ya.. that wasn’t everyday but he did tell me that one time and i was amazed…he is very responsible and can hold a job that works crazy amounts of hours so i wasn’t too worried…but yes he is the most sexual man i’ve ever dated i never felt bad with him though…it was always about both of us…ok i’m going to stop talking about him lol it’s just the last few days i’ve been thinking about the differences but it isn’t doing me any good…

    like Daria said…it’s the “bounce effect” no more bouncing for me 🙂



  211.  #211Jilly on April 11, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    LD…i’m going to second that with a “glass” in my hand raised high…THANKS UNIVERSE 🙂

    thanks LD, TGirl, Camile and Lucy for the feedback!!!..i feel a big relief and some anticipation for the next makeout session lol



  212.  #212Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Message for the Rusty Thread: “One day you will know this” sounds condescending Rusty. We already Do know this, and I actually said the same idea way up the thread. 😛 (With love) Play nice.



  213.  #213Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    woke up
    feeling tired
    hugely underslept for some days
    how to get over that tiredness?
    Mee



  214.  #214Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    chatting with some friends
    having fruitjuice
    Meemee



  215.  #215Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    i am reading and re reading all your comments
    Thanks all.
    Just trying to look at the picture with deep clarity.
    Though I feel hot blooded and impulsive to do many things i am stopping myself
    I dont want to do anything that i’ll regret later.
    I dont want to do anything that delays my healing
    Meemee



  216.  #216Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    Meemee – good idea; glad you are resting!



  217.  #217Jacqueline on April 11, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    okay, Sirens….

    we must plan!! a SECRET birthday party!!!

    Whose you ask?

    The Lovely Tiny Dancer TINQUE!!!

    Well, it won’t be that big of a secret since it’s on facebook…but still…

    I have given her all the candles she would wish for – sweet sixteen?

    And we need a fairy Godmother to grant her wishes, or even a Genie in a bottle…

    so, who can find the magic to bring these things?!

    And ummm…well, be glad you’ll only SEE the words here:

    Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you,
    Happy Birthday Dear Tinque
    Happy Birthday to YOU>>>>lalala

    sparkles and sprinkles!!!

    Jacqueline



  218.  #218Lucy on April 11, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    Can someone repost this on the Rusty Thread fo me? –> That’s what i was trying to tell everyone on Jonathon’s fb page!! That you Can know all those things about how a guy will be in bed if you’re just fooling around a bit – easy peasy…some is very obvious – just pay attention! lol. So thanks Rusty for agreeing from a guy’s pov. 🙂



  219.  #219Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Thanks Jaqueline.
    Meemee



  220.  #220Meemee on April 11, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    I read Rosa’s stop sign
    Its helping me a lot.
    Only i feel afraid thinking that i will take long to heal
    that thought is painful
    Meemee



  221.  #221Pseudonymous on April 11, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Dear Meemee,

    I am sorry to hear of your recent losses — both ending your pregnancy and Mr. X’s lack of support to you. I would encourage you, though, to not make any critical decisions about Mr. X while you are still in the throes of your post-abortion processing/healing. In addition to your emotional stress over Mr. X, your body has also experienced extreme physical upheaval. The build-up of pregnancy hormones followed by their abrupt post-abortion letdown is a major physical/emotional roller coaster ride.

    It appears that you are getting a lot of support here in processing your feelings about Mr. X in general, and I hope you will continue to make full use of this blog for that purpose. There are so many compassionate women here who obviously care a great deal about your well-being.

    However, I would also like to recommend to you another resource for additional support regarding your abortion and any potential Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS) that you may experience. If you are interested, you can learn more by going to:

    http: // afterabortion . com / pass_details . html
    (delete any spaces in the link address)

    Additionally, I have been in contact with Jacqueline, and she has agreed to be a go-between if you wish to contact me directly. In that way, I can preserve/protect my own anonymity with regard to my participation at PASS. So, if you are interested in further information regarding my experience with the PASS Support site, please send an email to me via Jacqueline, and she will forward it to me. You don’t have to write any details; the first email will just be so that we can establish contact.

    Jacqueline’s email address is:
    jlinaangel @ yahoo . com
    (again, delete all spaces in address)

    Please know that there is no pressure here. I just found the PASS Support site to be a true “gift from the Universe” when I needed it, and I want to pay it forward.

    Grace and Peace,



  222.  #222Karen on April 11, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Hi. I’m new to this community. Just discovered your website and read your ebook. I don’t know if this is the right forum to ask for advice but I haven’t figured out any other place to do so, so I’m gonna go ahead and ask for it here.

    I’ve been in a relationship with a man for 7 months and, after reading your ebook, am seeing all the mistakes I’ve made. I’m grateful for the new insights but am wondering how to shift things after having already set a precedent with behavior that is not serving me or the relationship. For one thing, I’ve been overfunctioning big time. So, if I all of a sudden stop, I’m wondering if that will create confusion. Or, if it does, if maybe that wouldn’t be a bad thing. I also see now that it was a mistake to agree to exclusivity before getting a commitment, but I don’t see how to change that at this point.

    The biggest challenge I’m experiencing now is wondering how to move forward with a line of communication I initiated and now am wondering about the wisdom of it. Three weeks ago, I told him in an email that the kind of relationship I want is a marriage where we live life as a team, and then elaborated a little on what that idea means to me. I told him that I was feeling afraid because I wasn’t sure if he and I want the same things, and that I wanted to know what kind of a relationship he wants. Two weeks went by without any response to my email, so I finally asked him if he’d read it. He said that he had, and that he was working on writing a response. He stated a preference for expressing his thoughts in writing before talking, said he would do that “soon,” and I agreed to wait. Another week went by, during which time he was quite attentive and affectionate, and even said that he loved me… but no response to my email. So, last Saturday, I told him that while I understood and supported his need to express his thoughts in writing before talking, I was feeling quite anxious as more and more time went by. I cried as I told him that it was scary and hard for me to communicate what I did, and that I didn’t want to feel that anxiety anymore. He quietly held me after that, and then said that he would get his thoughts to me in writing and then we could talk, “either tomorrow or Monday.” Well Monday, which is today, has come and gone. He texted me earlier to say that he was mistaken about the date of an event he had asked me to attend with him tonight and that, instead, he’d be working late and then going to a kung fu class. I responded with the following:

    “I need to tell you that I don’t want to continue putting off discussing my email. As I said on Saturday, it was scary for me to express what I did, and now I’m feeling more anxious. I’m also feeling hurt because you said you would get your thoughts to me in writing and we would talk by yesterday or today. I feel like I laid my heart bare twice, once in the email and again when I shared how I was feeling on Saturday, and I can’t tolerate leaving it lying out there much longer. I want to honor your needs but it’s starting to hurt and I don’t want to feel this way any longer. What do you think we should do?”

    I’m thinking that it was a mistake for me to start this whole line of conversation in the first place but, since I already had, I felt it was important for me to communicate how I’m feeling. But I’m not even confident with that action. I have the idea that I’ve been doing it all wrong and I don’t know how to shift it. Any help would be so greatly appreciated. Oh, and by the way, one of the reasons I initiated this conversation in the first place was because a book about relationships that he gave me to read recommended having this type of discussion to “define the relationship.”



  223.  #223Daria on April 12, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Thank you Daria for taking me home.

    Thank you for giving me a vinegar bath last night.

    Thank you for dressing me up pretty today.

    Thank you for taking me to my DUI class And still having some hennesy and a puff of ganja.

    Thank you for feeding me blackberries and strawberries and getting me a glass of water.

    Thank you for brushing my teeth and my hair.

    Thank you for putting lipgloss on me.

    Thank you for getting me in bed.

    I love you Daria.

    Thank you for practicing ho’oponopono



  224.  #224Pseudonymous on April 12, 2011 at 12:41 am

    Hey Daria,

    I haven’t read here for quite some time. I’m curious about these thank you’s that you are writing. Are they related to Pat Carrington’s EFT tools? I remember either one of her newsletters or audios mentioned tapping in gratitude for all the “little things” that we do for ourselves each day. I never really used it consistently. What results have you experienced?



  225.  #225snowqueen on April 12, 2011 at 12:47 am

    I’m feeling really happy at the moment. Things are going well at work, I overcame a huge barrier which I’ve had for years about dealing directly with women managers. I feel strong and purposeful again. I’ve been CDing and it’s been very helpful. I was seeing a great guy but after 4 dates I realised that he simply wasn’t interested in me and anything I was passionate about. He’s great company but that’s not enough so I feel ok about letting him know that I’d like to be friends or activity partners but nothing more. I love someone who isn’t ready for a relationship and it may never materialise but I feel ok about that – it’s how I feel about him, but I don’t need to do anything about it. I see him regularly and he knows how I feel and it doesn’t get in the way of our friendship at all because I’m not expecting anything from him. I accept that’s where he’s at. This amazes me – how far I’ve come! I’m open to someone new entering my life at any time. I know what I want and I’m pretty clear about my boundaries and what to do if I’m triggered. It’s rather strange not to feel anxious or wanting to create a bit of drama, but much better than where I was this time last year.

    I love my feelings so much. I never want to betray them again.



  226.  #226Celtic Blue on April 12, 2011 at 1:01 am

    LITST and Queenbee, yes that quote @104 about taking the slow and steady route to relationship via friendship is from me. No instant relationship.

    I really feel this as my truth but it does rather ignore the “problem” of sex.

    My current experience is that I am not highly turned on to my CDs and it is easy to “not go there” because they hardly touch me , light peck on cheek is routine. The guys I am seeing have not come on to me , are not sexually flirting , are aware that i am recovering from major surgery, and are not players.

    I have always been very sexual and I am somewhat worried about this lack of sexual passion too . If they stepped up and kissed me properly it would probably be very different ! I have stopped the clever flirtatious writing I had done in the past (which is wonderful foreplay) . They are totally RESPECTFUL.

    Perhaps I am coming across as plain unsexy ? Boring ? Maybe I am too old now ? (51) Maybe they are inhibited due to my physical issues? I dont know . I do know that three of them have said they want to be friends , and they are certainly seeing me regularly and booking me up but not pushing any “benefit” line. Part of this may be because I have more surgery ahead of me next month.

    I am pretty enough, very feminine, “well preserved” looks, smart , educated , professional etc.

    So , yes this way of dating is protecting me from further heartache and pain. But being sexless sometimes feels sad and lonely balanced against being wanted for my company and friendship. I know its definitely not “just” about sex at least 🙂

    uuughhhh… I have to find a happy medium somewhere.

    I feel scared of being sexy .
    I feel scared of my scars.
    I feel scared they will use me for casual thrills.
    I feel scared of my menopausal body.
    I feel scared they WONT ever approach me sexually.
    I feel scared its all too late.



  227.  #227Celtic Blue on April 12, 2011 at 1:28 am

    Meemee ,

    I am glad you read my stop sign tool. I am happy other Sirens have found it helpful.Especially Brenda, Hi Brenda!@

    The most important thing about those comments I will reiterate here.

    Changing negative thoughts and bad feelings requires you to WANT to STOP having them. This means to let go of the habitual , repeated pattern of thought-feeling which is distressing ,AND oddly comforting and familiar at the same time.

    Because it is familiar in its downward spiral and because it CONNECTS you to a man , a time ,experiences and feelings which are now gone , letting go of the pattern means feeling GRIEF.

    It means saying goodbye to the past .

    When we agree to stop rerunning these thoughts /memories and feelings and we do the Stop Sign and any of the techniques I mentioned, we are breaking up an old brain loop. The pattern will change . we will feel BETTER because we have jumped off the old tracks going nowhere.

    But we are breaking an addiction at the same time. And that feels like letting go of an old friend, lets call him “Pining”.

    We have to be tough and relentless when Pining shows up and NOT GO THERE.

    I applaud the girlfriends who refuse to listen any more to talk about “Pining -Man” and force a change of subject or a new activity.

    We need to get tough and vigilant of our thoughts and we will soon feel so much better.



  228.  #228Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 1:39 am

    Celtic Blue
    Thanks.
    I remember the first day I joined this blog. That was late september. I decided I dont want that relationship anymore and walked away. I felt powerful. I felt motivated to do things.

    Then he came with promises and gifts and had sex and soon after that broke my heart again. I immediately walked out. I was feeling powerful. I was feeling hopeful.

    This time, I feel somewhat powerless. Before I had a chance to regain my health and self esteem and power, he said I should not be bothering him and I should let him get married.

    I feel a difference now. I dont feel the energy and the power and the hope i experienced in the other two instances.
    I feel the lack of power.
    I feel the lack of some energy to move forward.
    I can not put my fingers on it. But this time it feels hard and tough.
    I wonder why this is so.
    Is it just because it was he who walked out?
    Meemee



  229.  #229Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 1:54 am

    Also I am having a major major confusion.
    Let me put it this way:
    X wrote in his letter that no amount of talking will help.
    From this blog also I learn that no amount of talking will help.
    X wrote I should not bother him with my worries and should leave him alone.
    And I learn I should let him go.

    He wrote instead of staying indoors I should go out and meet new people and focus on work
    I learn that I should be doing all that to heal.

    He said I should learn to let things go.
    And i learn that too.

    He said i should start from somewhere and start doing this,
    Well, thats what i hear i should be doing.

    He said I should start doing things and start working and slowly he and others will be able to contribute towards my well being.
    I know that when I start doing things people can start contributing towards my well being

    He gave me long list of instructions all of which sort of resonates with the posts I am reading here on the blog.

    I feel so confused.
    Was he right about it?
    I feel he is wrong and was doing wrong to me. But at the end of it he comes up with a list of instructions all of which are logical.
    I am not able to write my confusion down completely. Its sort of, ummmm, I am doing things, exactly those things he instructed me to do in this mail.
    Am I anyway proving that he was right in his assumptions and instructions?
    Its very crude and i put it even more crude. But, I am confused when I think about it.
    I dont know what I am writing becomes clear. Because its a deep confusion. and i am not even able to articulate it.

    Meemee



  230.  #230Lucy Ann Ladybug looking for Rori on April 12, 2011 at 2:12 am

    Rori, doesn’t it bother you that Evan is presenting a distorted version of CDing that completely misses the complexities and nuances of how it actually works in practice? It seems he takes a very basic pared down form and says we apply it just like that to every situation without discrimination. I see CDing as ingenius. Without a one-size-fits all application. I feel so sad that he is bashing – and encouraging his readers to bash – something he doesn’t seem to fully comprehend. 🙁 🙁 🙁



  231.  #231Lucy Ann Ladybug looking for Rori on April 12, 2011 at 2:23 am

    Rori, doesn’t it bother you that Evan is presenting a distorted version of CDing that completely misses the complexities and nuances of how it actually works in practice? It seems he takes a very basic pared down form and says we apply it just like that to every situation without discrimination. I see CDing as ingenius. Without a one-size-fits all application. I feel so sad that he is bashing – and encouraging his readers to bash – something he doesn’t seem to fully comprehend. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Jesus for moderation



  232.  #232Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 2:39 am

    I had food.
    Doing nothing but sitting at home and watching TV.
    I called in my gym and renewed my subscription. I can join from tomorrow.
    I am reading the blog.
    I am reading some articles
    It feels good to do.
    Meemee



  233.  #233Kyla on April 12, 2011 at 2:45 am

    subscribing



  234.  #234Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:06 am

    I hate how they are distorting Rori’s words on Evan’s blog. they are saying that Rori tells us to “cheat” on our boyfriends. 🙁



  235.  #235kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Not sure if I should continue reading this blog, but I probably will. My bff said that he’s noticed my vibe has decreased from reading here and that I’m so leaned back, I’m empty. Today we got in a huge fight because he suggested me coming over with the computer and hitting a Starbucks or somewhere to get our work done. I grabbed my computer and headed over immediately. Due to what we shoot, we have to find a discrete place without a lot of people. He suggested a 2 story cafe near his house. Turns out, after we ordered our junk food they serve, there were no electrical outlets and my computer had no juice. He was so furious because I am too stupid to not think ahead and charge the computer up. I am stupid for assuming there would be electrical outlets. I got yelled at for wasting his time and his money since he was only eating their junk food so we could get some work time in. We ended up working at my house instead. He was so angry it cut into our evening and blamed me for being lazy. I showed him my calender to prove I’m not lazy. He threw it and several of my things across the room and said, “You may be keeping busy but there’s nothing behind it now because you go about everything stupidly and I bet it’s because Adam is all you care about.” Then he asked why I’ve been so quiet these days. I didn’t wanna further rile up the storm by telling him that lately he’s being calling me stupid and it makes me go quiet and detach; otherwise, I’ll be pegged as defensive and it will ensue more arguments. Finally, I told him just that. No use. He just said stop doing stupid things if I don’t want to be called stupid.

    And to FEMME WOMAN, ALONKA, and whoever else suggested I call Adam because maybe he’s missing me- um…isn’t the entire Siren premise here “if he wants you, he’ll come get you.” ??? And lest we forget, when he put LIKE on my FB, I returned a LIKE on his. Is that not enough warm, open reception on my part? Dude is leaving abroad tmrw for a tour. He has also disabled the ability for everyone (not just me) to comment on his wall. If that isn’t a do not enter sign on the cave, I don’t know what is.

    And yes, I would absolutely be devastated if his reaction to me reaching out was lackluster at best.



  236.  #236kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:12 am

    If you no longer see my posts here, it means my read id has been discovered. or I’m dead.



  237.  #237kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:24 am

    151 Jaqueline

    Thanks, but I’m considering counseling. The obstacle is that my bff is also my biz partner and we’re together pretty much daily. He feels I will manipulate the counselor into feeling sorry for me instead of getting to what he feels is the real issue- me being lazy and not thinking smartly.



  238.  #238Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:31 am

    Good counselors are pretty hard to manipulate. <3



  239.  #239Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:35 am

    Kait – what if you just text him “hope you enjoy your trip. i miss you. <3" and expect nothing back?



  240.  #240kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:37 am

    I’d like a good one. All I get are lame ones reflecting my questions back to me or sitting their like a bump on a log.



  241.  #241kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:38 am

    Lucy, because I would be expecting something back and a thank you would not suffice.



  242.  #242kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:39 am

    No need to wish him good luck. All 62 fans of his band will adore him and Eastern Euro hookers will drop to their knees when they see his pretty blue hairs.



  243.  #243Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:41 am

    you can’t take a baby step of feeling good about expressing your feelings and yet let go of expectation?



  244.  #244kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:42 am

    I meant 1 zillion and 62. It’s an obscure genre but they’re quite popular in it. Point is, that and writing are his passions. He’s successful at both. The admiration I have for him excelling at something he’s dedicated his life to leaves me breathless. And feeling he’s out of my league.



  245.  #245kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:42 am

    242 Evidently not.



  246.  #246Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:42 am

    falling asleep soon. feel better sweet kait! <3



  247.  #247kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 3:43 am

    241 I meant pretty blue eyes. Was thinking about my hair appointment.



  248.  #248Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:46 am

    Where do you live? I know some great counselors.



  249.  #249Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:48 am

    I hear ya on the admiration. that’s how I felt about WH’s singer/songwriter career. 🙁



  250.  #250Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 3:50 am

    really falling asleep now…. ttyl tomorrow.



  251.  #251kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 4:05 am

    247 L f*cking A. <3



  252.  #252Celtic Blue on April 12, 2011 at 4:34 am

    Hi Meemee,

    You know X and G pretty much did the same dynamic of “keep coming back” , then withdrawing , then the final sting in the tail. I understand what you mean about the powerless feeling as I had that for a short while in Dec after the final nasty bite by G. I suspect the powerless feeling is actually because you deeply recognise it REALLY IS OVER . Nothing you say or do will change that now.

    There is no tactic , no strategy , no leaning back , no NOTHING to get him back …YAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!! This Meemee is freedom. It is freedom totally from this man . This feels sad at first , but then it feels like relief, like a nasty thorn extracted from your heart.

    Then comes the Power. The power to start to rebuild and love your relationship with yourself . Treat yourself like a delicate plant with new shoots and leaves unfurling , feed tenderly , gentle rain and sunlight and care and it gets better. Faster than you can imagine. Clean cut pain is much easier to heal than dragging endless , tied -on- to -him pain.

    All these things he said about healing?
    Well Meemee , i remind myself often that G was not ALL bad , X is not all bad either. If he was a psychopath you would not have come to love him . his clumsy attempt to help you feel better is one of the good things you may wish to remember later, a little reminder that you had reason to love him .

    Could it be a good way to end a bad situation if you remind yourself that you have learned to love someone , and that you may have touched that persons life with light and goodness? Thats how I do it Meemee and I forgive myself and him daily.



  253.  #253SummerBaby on April 12, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Kaitlyn,

    I can’t help wonder if your bff is actually pining for you. It seems to me from his crazy anger routine that he’s wanting you to stop focusing on Adam because he wishes you would look at him.

    I could be completely off base, but it sure seems like bff has stronger than friend feelings for you.

    Summerbaby



  254.  #254Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 5:21 am

    RE 252 Yes, some guys throw some type of anger routine when they want a woman who is not paying them attention.



  255.  #255Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 5:25 am

    kaitlyn It is but that does not seem to be working to get your feelings to change towards yourself. If what I am doing does not help I look to do something else. It also eems you can do anything with a man, depending on where you are coming from. Seems to me that you can do it just to express.



  256.  #256SummerBaby on April 12, 2011 at 5:31 am

    Meemee,

    You could always write a letter to you FROM X. Have him say all the things you wish you could have heard from him at the end of all of this.

    I have done this a few times in an attempt to get healing for a couple of situations. Even though I know *I* wrote them, they still help me feel better.

    hugs,
    Summerbaby



  257.  #257LD on April 12, 2011 at 5:35 am

    Summerbaby,

    Exactly what I was thinking about Kaitlyn. Sounds like the bff is jealous of Adam…



  258.  #258SummerBaby on April 12, 2011 at 5:41 am

    LD,

    I cracked up over your chastity inducing shaving accident.

    LD and Jilly, I enjoyed your date descriptions and am happy that you’re all enjoying some good endorphins.

    I’m not sure what to make of Mr. Gold. I’ve never met a guy yet with his stamina, nor one with the recovery power he has after he’s done. For once in my life, I’ve got a guy whose sex drive is complementary to mine. Yay!

    Hugs,
    Summerbaby



  259.  #259LD on April 12, 2011 at 5:43 am

    HotArmyGuy: “Good morning, baby. I know it’s short notice, but can I come down and take you to dinner tomorrow night? Because I really don’t want to wait a whole week to see you again.”

    ****SIGH**** : )

    Thank you Universe. I feel grateful!



  260.  #260AMAZINGME on April 12, 2011 at 5:57 am

    Feeling triggered today, didn’t sleep well…tired and grumpy but enjoying your helpful siren thoughts! Kaitlyn, this man called you stupidk that is triggering for me, you are so far from stupid he is so ignorant to say that! I also am annoyed with how a man that hurt you and was not there for you when you needed him is telling you how to heal yourself..i mean wtf…MeeMee, I have respect for you that man is manipulative and controlling, making you think it’s all you. We all need healing in our lives but he Does Not need to be giving you advice, SUPPORT, or leave you be let you heal for he needs to look at himself too and heal some things. I am sorry that all triggered me a little, had to let the “Siren” speak out, Take Care ……XOXO



  261.  #261Laughing Goddess on April 12, 2011 at 6:11 am


  262.  #262Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 6:16 am

    Got this from A Ford
    Having experienced a lot of both in my life, here’s what I’ve learned so far: Pain is unavoidable, but do we have a choice about suffering?

    Years ago, after a particularly bad breakup, I remember feeling as if a 747 jumbo jet had crash-landed in the middle of my chest. The pain was nearly unbearable and at times I felt like I would die. Crushed and hopeless, I wondered how I would survive.

    I was indeed in pain and I was suffering.

    Strange as it might sound, I am beyond grateful for that incident. It paved the way for the life I have today. Through that experience, I became clear about the traits and qualities I wanted in a soulmate and the level of commitment I desired in a relationship. The pain was real and unavoidable, but I now see that the suffering part might have been optional.



  263.  #263Laughing Goddess on April 12, 2011 at 6:17 am

    I feel so inspired by the above video. A woman in the flow and channeling her feminine energy! Love it!



  264.  #264SummerBaby on April 12, 2011 at 6:17 am

    LG that was fun, thanks for sharing.

    Summerbaby



  265.  #265T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 6:30 am

    What is the “Rusty” thread?



  266.  #267LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 6:41 am

    149: Lily T. says:

    ***@#144 “The Rusty thread” LOL!!!
    Perhaps will become knownst as the Infamous Rusty Thread?
    Monday, 11 April 2011 @ 7:13pm***

    Why infamous? He was polite and attentive to be very clear always.
    He took us seriously.
    He tried hard to share the passion he feels for his own experience.
    I feel very good about it. I hope he will keep coming regularly.

    xxx



  267.  #268Lily T. on April 12, 2011 at 7:03 am

    Yes he did LonePlum. “Infamous” was meant as a light joke. 🙂



  268.  #269LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 7:15 am

    267 Lily T.

    ah! OK, thank you.
    I had never heard the word as a joke, sorry 🙂

    xxx



  269.  #270Lily T. on April 12, 2011 at 7:28 am

    It’s okay LonePlum. At the time Lucy was unable to write on that thread, and there had been a little tension over some things that had been written. My use of the word “infamous” was just my way of making a little joke and releasing the tension. 🙂

    Interesting to read Rusty’s perspectives, yes?



  270.  #271LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 7:30 am

    Meemee 229

    Yes, he was right. All he says you should do is what you should do

    You are confused because he is telling you what YOU should do to help you, when he is not doing what HE should do himself to help you.
    He has not even paid all the money, as if it was not totally his responsibility.
    Like if it was you who created the baby and not him who put it inside you, based on lies and the prenuptial gift.
    That’s where he is wrong and your mind gets confused when you hear his advices that are right.

    But none of his advices are about what he can do, he avoids that part. He is minding your business instead of owning what he did to you and what he owes you.. That’s what feels wrong.

    You feel he is wrong, he is manipulating you, so you reject everything from him.
    Which is natural to do in such circumstances and the best for you.
    Yet you observe that the advice you reject is right and is actually the advice you are following.
    It is very disturbing.

    Be reassured, you are not following HIS advice but you are doing what you know is good for you and what the sirens remind you when you forget.
    It just happens to be the same advice.

    The man proved to not have feelings for you, he repeatedly told you to not pay attention to your feelings and to think.
    His thinking with no feeling ended sending you to the hospital.
    He did not offer the support you needed when you asked for it.
    So when he gives you easy spoken advices
    1) for “you own good”,
    2) when you met him to cover the expenses,
    well, you can’t believe he feels protective of you. That’s where his advices sound off.

    A protector does not get the woman pregnant when he is getting married somewhere else.
    He does not jeopardize her life and does not hide when she is trying to solve the problem on her own.
    You reject his protective words, they don’t make sense.
    They are words of protection, but said by the person who is killing you.

    Plus his words of protection are meant to keep you away from him, and to make sure you will be healthy soon and forget him. He is making sure you don’t look bad too long, for his friends to stop asking what is happening to Meemee. He is in a hurry to see things back to normal and to forget.

    You MIGHT also feel confused because your longing blurs your understanding.
    Do you remember your IM convo?
    He was clearly saying he wanted sex only and asked if it would offend you.
    You read in it that he was loving you and was wanting to try a relationship with you and things were going to change.
    I broke the convo almost word by word to help you see what he was really saying.
    You could not see it by yourself. Your will to see a proof of interest makes you understand things that are not. (reminds me of myself)
    I think today you MIGHT feel confused because you want it to be the proof of interest you are longing for.
    You MIGHT feel confused because he is getting married, he is telling you to stop emailing him, he does not want to pay all the health expenses he created, nothing fits with the sign of interest you want to see in his advice.
    As much as your mind tries to change reality, it does not fit, so your mind refuses to understand any further.
    Today you are seeing his advices are good, so your mind is asking “could it mean he is caring for me”? It is your last try to change reality.

    Stop thinking of whatever he says. He is a scum. Even when he is right.
    He is not caring for you, you are not missing anything, I promess.
    Life is sparing you. Life has got something better for you. Life has a man who cares for you, he is awaiting around a corner along your studies and politics.

    I vote for you Meemee, I mean it. You will be in a place to change things for women, you will have your revenge. A gorgeous dignified useful revenge. Be patient and work.

    For now, send him the total price, write him clearly that HE put the baby inside you.
    That day, he really said he was going to treat you like a girl friend, he brought you the prenuptial gift to make you open the door . . .
    He manipulated you to let him have sex the day you got pregnant, originally you were refusing to meet him.
    He pushed you to accept him. It is his action that created the expenses.
    He created your pregnancy leading to your stay at the hospital, so he pays.
    As simple as
    Tell him you won’t ask for ever, you want to get it done and forget him.
    Tell him if he makes you ask again for the money, you will ask his father, so you want the money now and be done with it.
    Be energetic in your email, take the power back. You are not begging, you are calling him on his failed duty.
    You don’t want him to tell you how to take care of yourself, you can do that yourself. What an hypocrite he is! You want him to take care of his own duty towards the pregnancy.

    In reality I don’t advice you to tell the father, but only to tell X that you will
    Forget about his family for now.
    I never heard of a son thrown out of his house for sleeping with a colleague.
    They will say he is a man with needs. He found himself a sexual partner. The sexual partner was not careful and got pregnant. That’s it.
    They will say you are a bad girl who accepts to be a sexual partner and now you want to manipulate them and to step out of your role to become one of them. That’s it.
    Don’t expect anything better from parents who educated such a scum.

    You can chose to feel good. Focus on your life, get back to you feel good list, add something new.
    Write your goals and pin them above your desk and in the kitchen. And start working towards them.
    When you get elected and you are above him, he will still be small in his office, married to an unhappy woman, and sleeping with the baby sitter.

    You will be moving things for women, free, married to a wonderful man, happy to have been spared against your will…

    xxx



  271.  #272T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Oh boy, looks like I have been missing alot on the Rusty thread? Too bad I have to go to work now and won’t have time to read!



  272.  #273SummerBaby on April 12, 2011 at 8:14 am

    LP, I love love love your post to meemee.

    anyone would be blessed to have you as their friend and/or confidante.

    hugs,
    Summerbaby



  273.  #274sweetmandm on April 12, 2011 at 8:37 am

    kaitlyn RE 252- Hi! I totally agree with summerBaby that it is a strong posibility that bff is jealous. When men are hurt, jealous, etc. it often comes out in displays of anger. That is exactly what I was thinking when I read your post. 😉

    Hmmmm…..



  274.  #275Mercedes on April 12, 2011 at 8:41 am

    LP, I’m with SummerBaby…that was amazing. I loved every word of it, but this part:

    “As much as your mind tries to change reality, it does not fit, so your mind refuses to understand any further.
    Today you are seeing his advices are good, so your mind is asking “could it mean he is caring for me”? It is your last try to change reality.”

    is the most insightful thing I’ve read in a long, long time. WOW! Yeah…that’s exactly it. one last try to change reality. I think everyone has been there at some time or another…it’s just really cool to hear it spelled out and to see what it really means. I think I just learned a lot from those few sentences. I love it.

    Also this:

    “Be energetic in your email, take the power back. You are not begging, you are calling him on his failed duty.”

    I’m totally with you. Use strength and direct conversation with exactly how it needs to play out. I’m also with telling him she’ll ask the father for the money…and probably also with not actually asking the father for money…although I would seriously be tempted…

    In any case, LP…that was beautiful. And Meemee…my heart goes out to you. I hope you read LP’s post and let it all sink in deep into your heart.

    Prayers and hugs.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  275.  #276Kyla on April 12, 2011 at 8:44 am

    ok i don’t know if here is the right to ask questions but it might help me just writing it out anyway.

    i am exclusive with R i got to know him over 4 months before we dated and we’ve been together now 5 months. he says i’m for keeps. he is always bringing up the future – talking about living together, future holidays, marriage, kids (the 2 i already have and the possibility of having kids together).. he tells me he wants all these things the only problem is money. he’s the type of man who wants to be able to provide for me and our family financially so at the moment he pays for all our dates, buys me groceries when he comes to stay, fills my car with gas, always travels to my house or drives to collect me even if it would be quicker for me to meet him.. and all this is great. he wants to live with me, marry me and have more children with me but not until he can financially take care of us and this is how the conversation always ends.. when these conversations come up i try to just lean back, open up and smile, listen and level 2 and respond with how i feel and that i understand.

    ugh the problem is the job/profession he is in is unstable and unpredictable and while i appreciate that he wants to take care of us financially part of me is thinking i could be waiting a long time 🙁

    he is doing everything at the moment to increase his income, progress his career and try to make it more stable. if he moved in today he would be able to cover half of all the household bills so i personally don’t see what the problem is but he’s the type of good man that wants to provide for us and he says he wants to do right by me and i deserve the best and he he’s working to give me that.

    anyway i guess i’m confused as what i should be saying or feeling when these topics come up. i feel good that he has plans for us, i feel secure in his commitment to me, i feel confident in his intentions as his actions always back up his words and i’m happy to continue as we are for now but i would love if he had a definite plan as to how long these things are going to take or a tangible goal to reach in order to move things further with me.



  276.  #277femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 8:58 am

    “i’m going to need a few days to myself.i’m feeling angry about some things but really its fear.i feel really taken care of when you listen to me,but need to deal with some of these fears by myself.it feels horrible to project my stuff on other people,so i’m going to deal with it.fears concerning trust,intimacy,boundaries.feel some of my boundaries have been crossed & i’ve not spoken up about it.need to regroup.thanks for a lovely evening.bisous.”
    message i sent a guy that is triggering me big time.
    I’m the one who did not speak up when i felt he treated i me like shit.so i need to lean back and address my issues.then if i allow him back in i will be stronger to deal and speak up if it happens again.what do you think?



  277.  #278liz on April 12, 2011 at 9:05 am

    I have a question hoping you can help me help a good friend of mine. She is recently divorced out of an abusive 18 year marriage and has two children ages 12 & 8. She has been dating men and recently met a man on facebook who she has been seeing since last November. He is also recently divorced from his second wife who left him over jealousy due to their open relationship and swinging lifestyle. My friend says she is head over heels over this man but at the same time it drives her crazy that he is so open about sharing with her all the other woman he is sleeping with while he is seeing my friend at the same time. My friend has not been sexually involved with him while he “swings.”

    I feel my friend is suffering from low self-esteem due to staying in an abusive marriage for so long and is now just willing to accept crumbs from any man who she finds exceptionally good-looking because she feels he validates her. I believe she is caught up in his addiction and the adrenaline rush…he recently went to Amsterdam for few days just to experience various sexual encounters and then told my friend about it. After he got back and told her about the most gorgeous women he was with, my friend and he had sex. I asked her how she felt about it and she said, “not good.” Now I am not one to judge any one’s lifestyle choice but I do believe we need to be true to ourselves and know who we are and what we want for ourselves to be authentic to ourselves and our relationships. BTW, my friend’s lover first wife also left him due to their swinging lifestyle.

    My question to you is this…What do you feel about partners (married or not) who swing? My feelings are that they appear to have deep intimacy issues and are disconnected from their feelings. I also feel that if a man truly loves a woman he would never accept this lifestyle…I know my man wouldn’t. I understand people want to experience and live out their erotic fantasies, but I also know many people who after experiencing this lifestyle are done with sex after a while. Nothing arouses them any more and they have to find something else on the next level to be aroused. Being with one person finally becomes “boring” to them. It seems like an empty lifestyle to me…after years of being with my husband I feel our sex has only gotten better and better because of the deep intimacy, closeness and trust we share. So if you could please give me your opinion on this I would so love to hear so that I can help my friend. She is hurting and feels lost.

    Thanks for listening Rori! I really enjoy your newsletters and am forwarding them all to my friend!



  278.  #279femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 9:07 am

    ps.
    does anyone have Tinque’s email address?I would really appreciate it 🙂



  279.  #280Mel on April 12, 2011 at 9:14 am

    http://sexandheart.com/wordpress/

    If you look on the bottom right, her email is listed in the Facebook box.



  280.  #281Laughing Goddess on April 12, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Lone Plum, MeeMee, and all:

    re: LP’s post

    Yes! I appreciate hearing LP’s point of view.

    Yet I do feel resistant to the idea of telling someone I will do something when I don’t intend to do it.

    Personally, I would feel inauthentic and lacking clarity with that approach.



  281.  #282Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Tinque at LoveRomanceRelationship



  282.  #283Laughing Goddess on April 12, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Summerbaby: I feel so happy to hear you enjoyed the video. I felt mesmerized watching it and I was thinking “wow, that woman is really present in her body”. Quite goddessy IMHO. 🙂



  283.  #284Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 9:19 am

    RE 280 That is the one thing I did not resonate with. It is a bluff and I would prefer to be prepared to deliver on my bluff.



  284.  #285femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Thanks Mel.
    Have i mentioned how good you sound lately…like a big chocolate muffin,all gooey and chocolatey inside 🙂
    i feel really good about asking for some space to deal with issues.because i feel i could just say i’m walking away for a while to take care of me,and maybe i’ll be back 🙂
    it feels good to take care of me 🙂



  285.  #286Femmewoman on April 12, 2011 at 9:21 am


  286.  #287AMAZINGME on April 12, 2011 at 9:24 am

    RE: 277 …Sounds to me this man is not a one woman kind of man and if she wants to be queen bee there is one queen, one hive…RUN…I am sorry but if a man loves you he loves you and has no need to go anywwhere else. Your friend deserves way more, if she wants to be happy that is, let him live that lifestyle, erections don’t last forever but Love does, a “REAL” love, move on!! His first wife is pure example, he still doing the same thing I doubt any one woman will make him “CHANGE”…hope it helps



  287.  #288sweetmandm on April 12, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Rori- Yesterdays email, spoke to me as it was written for me. 🙂 I feel thankful and encouraged after reading it! I love those examples of what you are talking about all the time and I can’t seem to get enough of those stories. Especially the success pieces at the end 😉

    Your words-
    “So as you practice what we worked on tonight, you may feel some barriers coming down, and you will feel him come closer to you- it may feel messy and scary and uncomfortable”

    “Consider it a gift and as a sign you are on the right track.”

    I feel as though you were the one person who read my post from the previous thread and understood my conundrum and confusion and mess in my mind, which I tried to express as best as I could but it all came out in all different directions.

    As he is coming closer now it is feeling somehow right and healthy and good, but at the same time, I go through periods of my mind swimming and I feel scared, uncomfortable and unsure of things. I remember that same thing happening in counseling in my past.

    Then I make mistakes and feel I am doing things, the “tools” wrong. I now will try to remember, that it is me falling back a little, to just move further forward again. It is enocouraging to hear the story from yesterdays email, along with your teaching!

    I will continue to savor the slow pace and take the time reflect and regenerate and search out peace in the midst of all the unfamiliar changes taking place.

    THis post is also awesome. I have spent time thinking about it and have been coming to realise that I have not been able to express my truly identified feelings appropriately, they have all been expressed through anger. Anger, anger and more anger which most often was brushed off quickly and not acted on, until the point of becoming just NUMB. Not even explosions, or bursted displays later, just lack of feeling, inability to feel much. I had leaned years ago in relationship counseling that YOU we don’t say, that I, I , I is the way to go. I also have come to understand, that even though I am using the “I” and not the “you” in expressing what I feel, as long as I still maintain the mindset of blame and ‘YOU, you , you” is still at the base of it, it still comes across in the way I would not like. I want to not only be good at using the words, but I want the attitude of it being about me to really follow closely alongside the words!! 🙂 Focusing more on me continually, which is at the heart of what you teach, I know will help me in this specific area as well!

    Excited to coninue the practice, yet a little scared and mixed up, because I see some of it actually creating change and stirring things up in my life. Not in the comfort zone, but feeling excited for the moment!

    HUG!



  288.  #289Mel on April 12, 2011 at 9:28 am

    “i feel really good about asking for some space to deal with issues.because i feel i could just say i’m walking away for a while to take care of me, and maybe i’ll be back. it feels good to take care of me”

    This really resonates with me femenergylove! I’ll have to use that… I’m going out/going for a walk for a while to take care of me so that I can have some space to deal with my feelings. LOVE it!

    Do I really sound good? Sometimes I wonder! Maybe I’m not giving myself enough credit! Mmmm! I love gooey chocolate! I wonder how I can progress to a yummy pie? 🙂



  289.  #290femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Mel,
    if its pie you prefer.. 🙂 lovely warm gooey chocolatey muffins are more my thing 🙂
    yes you have grown so much stronger,not afraid to speak about how you feel,not apologetic anymore.
    big hugs to you for sounding and being so much better,for your baby steps,for learning so much more about yourself 🙂

    usually i’m afraid to walk away and deal with my feelings because i’m afraid he wont be there when i get back.but now…the horrible feeling of my own unresolved thoughts and fears looming int he air like a dense fog feels so much worse!
    i’m workingon my boundaries with EVERYONE!not just him
    – my friend here in the dorm that only wants to hang out when her boyfriend is out playing soccer and she cant be at his house (oh now you want to talk to me?uh no)
    -a friend of mine that always always says horrible things to people (the first thing he said to a friend who is manic depressive that we have not seen for a while was ‘oh,you’ve gained weight’,you should have seen her face 🙁 )
    -this guy i’m dating that got at LEAST 30 calls from his ex while we were together last weekend.then he disappears for a week after,then i wrote him to tell him to call me when he grows some balls.he brought dinner over last night.piss off mate.i’m more angry with myself for not speaking my truth( that is its weird to me that she called so m any times,are you seeing her again?i felt so insecure etc (but this is my insecurity to deal with,why am i afraid?) when he was at my door than him coming by
    -my friend that continuously imposes herself ( i’m stayin over at yours tonight’. uh no youre not)

    and a lot of these things are about ME.I’m allowing it.So i’m stepping back to analyse why.WHY DO I ALLOW THIS?why am i afraid of making people mad?
    but it feels so good to say no.
    yes i keep coming back to this,and until i fully learn it,i will keep exploring,falling,getting up,and moving on babystep by baby step.



  290.  #291AMAZINGME on April 12, 2011 at 9:54 am

    I listen to this song and sometimes it reminds me of me 🙂 Thought maybe some sirens could relate …Siren or not sometimes we all need a lil TLC 🙂 http://youtu.be/tb0tycNJc-I



  291.  #292Luzydel on April 12, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Myself and Me are reading The Mastery of Love…once you read this book and read it again there is no other relationship advise you will need.



  292.  #293Mel on April 12, 2011 at 10:00 am

    “WHY DO I ALLOW THIS?why am i afraid of making people mad?”

    This is exactly what I have been asking myself lately. I have always been the “peace keeper.” I have NEVER wanted to rock the boat. Maybe that’s why I’m always rowing! LOL.

    The other night, my husband asked me to drive to the grocery store to get something that was really not essential (at least not enough for me to drop everything and go.) I couldn’t believe it came out of my mouth, but I simply said, “No. I’ll be happy to pick that up tomorrow when I go shopping, but I don’t want to go right now.” Honestly, he looked confused. Probably because I never say no to anything. Boundaries. They’re great!

    Femenergylove, I’m glad you’re working on your boundaries too. It can be terrifying, but liberating at the same time.

    My best friend told me to write “I deserve the best” somewhere where I (and anyone else for that matter) can see it every day. I’m putting that up on my whiteboard as we speak.



  293.  #294AMAZINGME on April 12, 2011 at 10:09 am

    “I deserve the best”…I like it 😉



  294.  #295Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Loneplum
    That was so so so wonderful.
    It gives me the energy to take my life back into my hands and live it in a dignified way rather than negotiating with him.
    I dont know if i can express my gratitude in a note of thanks. But THANK YOU

    Now a couple of quick practical queries.
    Firstly I dont have bills for the expenses. Since pre marital abortion is seen with lots of moral judgement my doctor asked me whether i want the termination and the other treatments related to it go into the hospital records. And they have an option not to mark it in the records. When I thought of my future and I also felt it would be good for me if it does not go into records. I immediately called X and asked him whether he needs the bills to pay me the money. He said he would also prefer it not going to records and will pay for it without bills hundred percent.
    So if i have to write a mail to him I will have to ask for money without producing any bills.
    Will that create any problem?

    Secondly, after the actual termination there was some infection and i had a bad fever and allergic hives due to medicines. So I was constantly in and out of hospital. Should I be asking money for all that? Also should I include money I spent on taking cabs?
    I know I sound very silly- but I want to feel and do the right thing.

    And one final moral dilemma- he told me clearly that he will not marry me when I first walked out (remember that concersation I posted here?). Does it mean that I was shortsighted and acted on impulses? Does it ease him out of the responsibility and duties?
    I always get that sense when he talks to me- “Well you knew I will not marry you. Then why did you get yourself involved?”- that sort of a vibe he radiates.
    Or is it that the issue is not about him marrying me right now, it is all about he failed on his duty towards someone whom he gor pregnant?
    Meemee



  295.  #296Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:12 am

    @ tinque

    I just woke up, late I know. 😯
    I’m needing a lot of rest these days.

    I hope you are having a wonderful birthday today!

    The Beatles – Happy Birthday
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztoSUhbNntQ

    xoxo
    SLV



  296.  #297sweetmandm on April 12, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Blessings tinque!

    Wishing you a wonderful year, filled with love and truth and happiness! 🙂



  297.  #298Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Also I dont want to mail him. He has never responded to any of my mails in the past.
    Can I send him a text saying this?
    And can you sirens help me write a short and clear text?
    All i want to tell him is that I want him to pay the full expenses.
    Meemee



  298.  #299femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 10:17 am

    i feel like saying
    “i feel fear when your ex girlfriend calls.i fearng this,i feel afraid of texting and sayihere is something going on between you again and it does not feel good”
    oh man and i feel afraid of calling and saying this,feel afraid of texting this.feel afraid of stirring shit up again,feel afraid i will look weak.feel afraid its just not my business and i’m over reacting(that is me making excuses right?)
    i feel afraid!
    i feel afraid becasue i feel it would be too soon to say i need space then write again and talk about my feelings like that.ing allelf for not saylike ‘uh i thought you needed time alone’
    i feel critical of myself for not saying all this yesterday when i saw him.
    i wanted to concentrate on just feeling good around him and not focusing too much on my thoughts.
    i did have a good time,but a few hours after he left i was thinking and feeling all this stuff again.
    i’m confused.



  299.  #300Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Loneplum
    Thanks again for that post.
    That puts many things into perspective.
    I want my power back.
    I want my life back.
    I want my energy and happiness back.
    I want to take control of my life.
    I feel motivated.
    Thanks
    Hugs
    Meemee



  300.  #301Mel on April 12, 2011 at 10:24 am

    femenergylove,

    How long have you been together?



  301.  #302femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 10:27 am

    for 6 months now.



  302.  #303Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:28 am

    I took the little “infamous” joke to mean “the thread” was infamous rather than Rusty is infamous.

    That’s my take on it. In my group we often refer to the unusual and provocative as “infamous” when it stands out from similar things, it’s said in a joking and loving manner.

    xoxo
    SLV



  303.  #304Mel on April 12, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Re 298:

    Maybe take a day or so more to give yourself the space you requested. Maybe the feelings may morph a bit more for you.

    If you are still finding that this is really bothersome, perhaps you could say something like…

    “Thanks for giving me some space to think and clear my head. I really appreciate it. This is hard for me to say, but something’s been bothering me. When I hear texts coming to your phone while we’re together, my heart sinks. I feel jealous and afraid. I don’t want to feel this way. Can you help me with this?”

    What do you think?



  304.  #305femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 10:48 am

    mel,
    sounds good 🙂 that definatley sounds open and honest.
    but i feel like feeling afraid and jealous are about ME.i’ afraid that its easier for him to fall back nd for 6 months to her because i’m not interesting enough etc…even though he’s been around for 6 months.why shouldnt he be into me
    i feel the jealousy and fear about his ex are more my self esteem issues.so reaching out to him about it would be pointless.i just want to stop being insecure.i’m having difficulty with this.
    insecurity.
    is my issue.
    i will tweak your suggestion though,once i haave some things sorted 🙂
    hugs



  305.  #306Lily T. on April 12, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Re: #302
    Yeah, SLV that too. I find that thread quite provocative. 🙂



  306.  #307Renie on April 12, 2011 at 10:59 am

    RE: Liz 277

    LIz,

    If your friend is not into swinging already, tell her to get the hell away from this man! You are correct, she must suffer from low self esteem to even put up with what she’s put up with so far.

    The guy I just broke up with (who turned kinda psycho when I did break if off…see previous thread) was into swinging and introduced me to it. I had never had a desire to participate in anything like that, but I am very open-minded and will try just about anything once. He had done this before in 2 previous relationships (that he told me about anyway), and he couched it as “my level of love and trust is so high with you, I know I can trust you in that environment and you can trust me and we will always have each others’ backs, etc. etc.” And he said if I didn’t like it, we never have to do it again. So, I tried it. For me it was one of those check the box, OK, Ive done that, moving on. But when I expressed this to him, he made an argument about how that lifestyle is important to him, and he sees no greater expression of love than being able to trust your partner so much that you can see him/her with someone else, and he also argued that swinging WITH your partner prevents cheating with someone outside the relationship. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I guess it could be a good argument. But the bottom line was I didn’t love it so much I wanted to do it again. But he did. So I did. again & again. And every time we did it, I felt worse & worse & worse. He loved it….I’m 13 yrs younger than him, and he LOVED seeing both men and women flirt with me, and basically everything else with me. He got off on it. I did not. And one day I put my foot down and said I don’t like it, maybe MAYBE I could do it once or twice a year on a special occasion (like his birthday or something) but that was it. He threw a little hissy fit about how if he enjoyed playing golf and wanted me to play golf with him, that I wouldn’t be making such a big deal out of it. Well, no I wouldn’t! Can you believe he likened swinging to a couple who golfs together? OK, we all know where the story ends…I broke up with him. Not just for that reason, but it was one of the reasons.

    All that long post to tell you….get your friend out of that mess!!!!! She doesn’t have to put up wtih that, and the guy sounds like a reall ass.



  307.  #308Lily T. on April 12, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Renie, ugh. What an extraordinarily selfish man. Glad you’re done with him.



  308.  #309Mel on April 12, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Re 304

    Yes, I agree that insecurity is your issue and not his. I definitely struggle with this as well.

    Perhaps he doesn’t need to hear about my insecurities. But at the same time, it’s not good to stuff feelings.

    I’ve found that telling him about how I’m feeling, and being vulnerable is something he responds to. A statement like the above is in no way blaming, so he feels more compelled to understand and “help.”

    I don’t know… what the right answer is though. Maybe it’s just better to discuss these insecurities with the ladies here, or with your girlfriends and leave him out of the equation. I’m curious to see what others have to say about this because maybe it could improve my relationship as well.



  309.  #310femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 11:15 am

    i’m tried of talking about it with my girlfriends..that know nothing about any of the RR stuff…its all mixed messages and just agreeing with everything i say 🙂
    the ladies here can speak from a different perspective,knowing the tools…and are not afraid of being in my face 🙂
    i love the strong women here.and i look forward to some thoughts.
    so ladies,Mel and I….need some help….:)



  310.  #311Lilybelle on April 12, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Meemee~

    ALL of the money that was spent on this..

    ~Lil



  311.  #312AMAZINGME on April 12, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Dear X,

    You took part of me but will not get it back for I have stolen it away from you. I am me all of me and what I do and say is my own consequence, I don’t blame you I pitty you. Mr. Amazing is so close because of you and for that I will always be greatful!!….



  312.  #313Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Meemee – that’s actually interesting he gave you a list, it humanizes him for me and indicates he wants you to – for whatever reason – feel better. Everyone has different ideas of what will make you feel better…I like the PASS idea, but will just say again I am sure you will do okay.

    Remember the list you made your first few days as a Siren for me? Smile – I wonder if you still have it? Maybe if you do you can pick an idea or two off of it and do some feel good things!

    Kaitlyn – you don’t sound like you’d let anyone boss you around, so if you don’t see a therapist because of your bff’s opinion, I think you don’t want to see a therapist. Not that I’m a huge believer myself, just don’t know what else to offer. I HATE if you don’t see me I’m dead. Feels inauthentic and ….designed to manipulate feelings. But maybe it’s just depression. Actually, Pseudononymous had to leave the blog for the same reason – it was just wearing her down. For some non debaters, it might.

    for me, it just takes up huge chunks of time when I’m not looking…smiles and I hope I can say of you, also, you’ll be okay.

    J



  313.  #314Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Summerbaby…yay for you and men with stamina!!! lol

    Mel and femenergylove…you two are both babystepping like no one’s business! 🙂

    femenergylove…i would not tolerate a man getting 30 phonecalls from an ex…he is lacking boundaries…big red flag…this is about you choosing you/you choosing him not him choosing or not choosing you….does that make sense? if you don’t feel good with him…what does that say? has it ever really felt good? (sorry i might have missed some posts)



  314.  #315Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    @ KAREN, #222

    – Hi!! There’s a lot of stuff going on here so I’m sorry no one replied to your post – it’s unusually hectic. I hope you get some responses and keep hanging out with us – you will find hope and love!!

    ha, and part of the topic we’re on is marriage as an ultimatum, or NOT…smile…If you click on the big Have @ top you’ll see a list of topics – people are posting on the Circular Dating one…

    because that’s what Rori would advise you to do, it might be insightful.

    Hope you’re still here and you see this!!

    Best,
    Jacqueline



  315.  #316Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Liz…i second what Renie said! that sounds like a path to drama and heartache

    Renie…I’m glad you ended up doing what was best for you…i can’t even imagine going through something like that 🙁



  316.  #317Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Hey Karen!! i read your post this morning and then had to leave and i’m just getting back 🙂 Jacqueline is so good at welcoming…i’m working on it 🙂



  317.  #318Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Karen @ 222…hmmm this one is kind of difficult…i would probably drop it at this point…and let things settle down for you…with him not communicating back to you has it given you space to re-evaluate what you want with this man? are you willing to walk away? or has it made you feel more needy? what ever it is that you need to do to get to a place where you feel ok no matter what happens… and staying open warm vulnerable and authentic i think is your next step…it’s focusing on you and your life and gets your focus off of him…what do you think?

    there is a post that Rori talks about that she knows she will be ok no matter what…keep reading through all the posts…and working the tools…



  318.  #319turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Meemee… I wouldn’t add the cab fair in.

    Maybe you could say something like,

    In order for me to more forward with my life in a healthy way, I cannot have the financial hardship of the termination hanging over my head. I realize you are moving on, planning a wedding, yet I will be dealing with the stress of what has happened between us, long after you are married. I need you to pay $XXXX in order to relieve the financial burden from me. I do not wish for this to go beyond the two of us, but it will be a struggle for me financially to handle this myself right now. If you send me XXXX, I will feel able to let this go, put it behind me and move on with my life without you. We don’t need to have any further contact beyond this, it’s best we are going our separate ways.

    Something like that??? I”m sorry I haven’t responded to your posts about this before. It’s a difficult subject and I just didn’t know what to say. Good luck, I hope he pays up! 🙂



  319.  #320femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    313
    Jilly
    it did feel good in the first 4 months.the ex resurfacing has o fcourse changed things.
    my asking for space helps me step back and put me in the ‘me choosing him’ mode.
    thanks for helping clear that feeling.
    my friend that comes over when her man is playing football came over.i practiced just stating things as they are and not engaging
    ‘what are you doing?’
    ‘i’m making some dinner’
    i stood at the door and did not invite her in.i dont feel like being with her tonight and listening to ‘oh my God i’m so far gone in this relationship i have not done my laundry in a long time……”
    what is she recycling underwear?
    🙂
    this is a biggie for me.
    i’m feeling my shoulders lose tension,but there is still some left over.
    baby stepping grooove 🙂
    i want to truly work on me.then see if i even choose him.



  320.  #321liz on April 12, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Thank you AMAZING ME 286 and Renie 306!

    I have referred my good friend to this blog so she can read all the comments. She says she agrees with both of you. She also says her guy wants to take accountability for his failed marriages and learn to become more self-aware. I don’t think it’s healthy for my friend to hold his hand through his self-exploration and therapy. I would like to see her invest the time and energy into HERSELF. She holds many child hood wounds that she needs to heal. If she had been of healthy mind she never would have married an abusive Toxic man in the first place! RENIE…why did you continue swinging with your man if you continued to feel worse and worse? What finally prompted you to walk away? Do you feel you are now able to have an intimate close relationship with an emotionally mature and stable man?



  321.  #322femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    “what i want to know is…are you seeing your ex again?”



  322.  #323femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    when i let you step up and i lean back,you lean forrward so terribly well,
    yes you are also dealing with some things,but then some things happen that trigger me so terribly,i become weird,you become weird then it all falls apart.then we are on opposite sides of the boat,me tense,you tense,both sitting there.
    i dont want to walk away from you.i really really like you,and you really really like me too.
    are we both just not ready for this?
    how can i practice with you and not mess it up?



  323.  #324Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    hi Camile 🙂

    where’s femininewoman? i was hoping she would be here today

    ok hotpilot just called..he’s going to come over and i need to go get ready and i think we might go on a little hike 🙂 or walk or something

    just a little story…

    the other night when we were making out…i think he needed to stop due to being too excited and it totally changed the mood…he asked me if i was ok and i said that i felt confused and disconnected and he said…”Well..what can i do to fix it?” he went directly into fix it mode and we talked and he said “do you feel better and reconnected?” (he actually said re-connected lol) and i said yes…thank you…

    i loved it!! we are having some amazing deep conversations…so i want to keep things fun and light for the most part…



  324.  #325Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    oh ya…and LD…i love morning texts 🙂 that was a sweet message to get this morning from hotarmyguy!



  325.  #326Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    femenergylove…i really liked that last post of yours…it felt open and authentic and soft…very nice! are you this way with him?

    k i have to get ready now…:)



  326.  #327kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    FEMME WOMAN, SUMMERBABY, et ALL,

    My bff is NOT pining for me. That’s not how we roll. Simply platonic and that’s all.



  327.  #328Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Re 322

    Femenergylove,

    I SO sympathize with this! It feels like a struggle doesn’t it? One moment, the tools seem to be working and I notice a response. The next, he slips back into old patterns, OR I do and the tension builds again. I’m really, really hoping that if I can stick with this, and just keep using the tools, that these excruciating stand-stills or back-tracks will become fewer and farther between. femininewoman mentioned yesterday that he has to relearn how to treat me. This probably applies in your case too!

    Hugs 🙂



  328.  #329femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    i dont like having a fantastic weekend with you and then you go away for a week!with that after she calls you continuously for so long.
    i dont like you being awkward last night.but i was awkward too and we argued about which way you are facing while having dinner.really?
    was i picking a fight?
    yes.
    you made dinner,was wonderful.we watched one of your favourite movies,you’re right it was hilarious.
    when you left you held me close and kissed me tenderly and i felt really really good.
    this morning i was back to being a monster.
    i leaned forward and i’ve told you i need to work on my issues…
    you have not responded,which is okay…you’re giving me what i have asked for.but everyting you have given me i have asked for,by not setting boundaries with you,firmer boundaries.
    someone today told me my somewhat short temper is sexy,and that some people like it.why do i play small with you?
    why?
    i’m quick to snap every one to the back of the line except for you.this i think is a big big issue here.ME.
    i need to crack the whip again with you.becasue i know you like it.
    when you disappeared for a week and i told you to call me when you grew a pair,you called immediately.you respond well to me being strong.
    i’m getting my strength back.be prepared to feel a lot more for me Mr.
    i feel better.



  329.  #330Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    hee hee, I meant femmewoman… oops!



  330.  #331Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    “i dont like you being awkward last night.but i was awkward too and we argued about which way you are facing while having dinner.really?
    was i picking a fight?
    yes.”

    Could this be projecting your feelings onto him? I think I do this all the time. What do you think?



  331.  #332femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Jilly
    no 🙂
    i have not said this 🙂
    and maybe i should.
    I LOVE SIREN ISLAND!!!



  332.  #333Jilly on April 12, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Kaitlyn…you seem like you are such a strong sassy confident woman…where is she?



  333.  #334femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    projecting?
    sure
    i had a big ‘ol projector set in the middle of the room beaming “BE AWKWARD NOW” up on the wall.
    wheni softened in his arms and just kissed his neck because i wanted to,he curved into me and kissed me back,not lust but intimacy.
    but his ex calling is a huge insecurity trigger for me.



  334.  #335femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Jilly,
    sorry you asked if i’m this way with him,not have i said this to him.
    no not all the time,i’m still at the point where i’m afraid to do it.especially face to face.i can only do it the scaredy cat way.VIA SMS (and siren island gasps)



  335.  #336Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    333:

    LOL, I think my projector beams right out of my forehead! 🙂

    For me too, it’s usually because I’m all in my head, worrying about why he’s coming home so late from work, why he’s paying so much attention to his female friends, why he just pecked me on the cheek instead of a “real” kiss…. It’s endless for me. Because I’m in such an insecure place right now, I tend to overanalyze everything, which makes me act weird, which makes him act weird in response.

    I think the key is stopping the out of control, in my head, probably made up thoughts and just feeling what it is that I’m really feeling. Lonely and afraid.

    That he can respond to.

    Healing the lonely and afraid… not there yet unfortunately. Don’t even know where to start.



  336.  #337femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    its start here Mel,
    let me look at that forehead and see if i can find an off button……
    please unhook me from this ball and chain….erm i mean projector 🙂
    i’m feeling so much better already 🙂
    i love the feeling of laughing about my insecurities,i can see now i just need to say how i feel without being afraid,but delivering the messaging in a proper non psycho firm but chocolatey gooey i got rid of the projector way 🙂



  337.  #338Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    OMG! It didn’t even occur to me that there was an OFF button! Maybe that’s what I’ll visualize when my insecure thoughts come to visit. I will picture my forehead beaming “BE AWKWARD” into the room and then I will visualize hitting the off switch… where do you suppose that is?



  338.  #339turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Jilly… have fun! I’m going to live vicariously through you for awhile. I haven’t had sex since… March 11. YIKES. Damn men…lol.

    Ok universe….. I NEED a strong, handsome, sexy man to materialize for my sexual needs in the very near future. PLEASE!



  339.  #340turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Mel, you are doing great. I wouldn’t overanalyze eveything you say though, it really doesn’t help. Just try to think about what you want to say before it comes out. 🙂



  340.  #341Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Maybe it’s my cute button nose? I’ll just give it a little poke… 🙂 There… OFF!



  341.  #342femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Mel….its on your nose………:)
    i can see you hitting your nose when the beaming starts 🙂
    “uh Mel whats wrong with you..”
    “nothing ..just turning off the beamer…”
    LOL



  342.  #343femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Ha!see it is on your nose 🙂
    grin grin grin



  343.  #344Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    femenergylove… I am laughing so hard right now! I can totally see him wrinkle his brow and say “why are you poking your nose.” I will just smile coyly and say “I feel better now!”

    LOL



  344.  #345aradea on April 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    mel, #24
    I liked this and thought it was a good FM, IMO. If I feel ignored, sad, anxious,…whatever, and it’s important to an interaction and relationship, then it seems reasonable to say so. I felt/thought/saw your statements as good I feel/I think/I want kind of communication that liberated you to eat, relax, and receive the surprise of an apology and an opening of continued convo about your interview.

    And it felt nice to me to imagine myself doing as you did and getting such a caring response back. So to me that was a successful interaction. 🙂



  345.  #346Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Thanks aradea!



  346.  #347aradea on April 12, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    #45 Luzydel
    I so liked this post- I do this with myself too!



  347.  #348femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    🙂
    Mel,
    i’m ready to be open,with him and myself,and communicating without wondering about the outcome.
    I’m ready 🙂
    so soon?
    yes.
    if i wait any longer there may be a timer on the beamer!!!
    HAHA!



  348.  #349Mel on April 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    femenergylove,

    Let us know how it goes!



  349.  #350Mel on April 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Husband is “going out for drinks” again after work.

    I choose not to be here waiting for his return. I choose to do something fun for myself because it feels good. Now to find some place that I can walk to…



  350.  #351Ella on April 12, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Just realising something here…

    I give B far too much kudos.

    I struggle with myself on this one cus I still think about him, but then I feel really cross with myself for it.

    The thing is I kinda know, that he just isn’t able to do it for me…

    He can’t do it.

    So I let him go (well I went away) – so why do I still think of him?

    It is certainly not because of anything substantial that he gave me, or any way that he enriched my life.

    The thing is when I look at him as a person I can’t help but feel put off, and the label man child pops into my head…

    So why then am I or was I ever caught up on him?

    I think it is a form of imaginary relationship, cus it sure is not something real I am pining for.

    So then it is just about choices, mental discipline, tools like the stop sign.

    AND I don’t want to stuff my feelings either – maybe just to become aware of the reality, and stop romantising it.

    In reality he did not have what I want.

    And why choose to pine over something like this?
    rust him, not one iota.

    So how could I possibly love a man I don’t trust?

    I don’t think it is really possible.

    So my attraction to this situation is something very different.

    The powerful pull of a potential do-over maybe, from situation in my life that hurt me and I was powerless.

    But I guess it doesn’t matter.

    What matters is to try something NEW.

    Something different… try a new path.

    Don’t try to fight my feelings or stuff down but just gently steer to new things, choose positive, helpful thoughts, gently move my mind onto new things.

    And be gentle with myself.

    Just laugh gently with myself when I get confused and dramatic.

    See what else is out there instead.

    I feel so angry too bc I think he may have stolen some money from me. But I don’t know.

    But I do not trust him to the extent where I really think he could have…

    That is bad enough.

    How could I still want this person?

    And I don’t really… but part of me does.

    And I struggle when I am split about stuff.

    But that is ok… it is ok to feel divided, and I don’t have to work anything out, or do a thing, except keep working on my life, lifting my vibe, responding and be open to new things.

    That is it.

    I can do that!

    xoxoxoxoxox
    Maybe cus it is easier than doing ‘real’ with a real man who can and will step up? ….

    Maybe.

    These are the questions I am asking myself.

    Also, one other thing, I don’t t



  351.  #352aradea on April 12, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Queenbee #127,
    (not sure if/how other sirens responded, I was compelled to answer and skipped down cuz I am feeling like your #1 with a man I’ve been seeing .)

    as to no 2. What do you FEEL about *GIVING* him lessons (for free?)
    – I feel like I deserve to be paid for my skills and talents, so I also have misgivings about *giving* away my income, yet I love to share and would use my skills and talents for free for most anything/anyone if my financial needs are filled.

    -I feel I’m taken more seriously by my paying clients than someone I’m doing a favor for. I feel they are more respectful of my time and expertise when they pay.

    -I often have felt strange in accepting money from a man I’ve dated, though I feel equally uncomfortable to pay for things on dates, and in the past overfunctioning me, I had trouble accepting a man paying for dates, buying gifts for me, etc. I see through telling u this, I find money issues troublesome and am still finding boundaries in this area in relationships. I want a man who will provide for me, but I want to NOT feel guilty. I am learning they feel strong and actually need to provide for us to feel we’re feminine and vulnerable, they get to feel the strong provider. and I’m learning it’s a gift to the giver when I accept with heartfelt appreciation.

    But we are supposed to be feminine receivers, right?

    It can feel confusing, but I am interested to see what and how you resolve this, since I am struggling with the same questions too.



  352.  #353LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    280 + 283 Laughing goddess and Femininewoman
    Yes. It does not make sense, does it?
    Thank you.

    xxx



  353.  #354LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Meemee

    Read post 280 +283 too please.
    You might forget referring to his father at all.
    Unless you feel safe calling him, in case you would have to.

    xxx



  354.  #355femenergylove on April 12, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    mel
    i hope there is something close by!and i hope its really really fun.i support you!
    message sent,and i feel better.



  355.  #356Ella on April 12, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    Hmmm,

    Maybe computer mixed up the sentences in my post!

    Grrr.

    Oh well what I am trying to say is that I don’t think I do love him.

    Yay! That is a relief!



  356.  #357LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Summerbaby and Mercedes 272 +274

    Thank you

    Mercedes
    Yes calling the father is the best, if X does not react. I doubt he would let it go to the point she has to call his father. The thing is I don’t feel good about it for safety reasons.
    In India women are thrown acid on their face and I don’t have the details to sense how much in danger Meemee would be, or not at all, if she addresses his family.

    xxx



  357.  #358Ella on April 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Urghh, what is wrong with me today.. I must be tired…

    I was trying to say my computer DID mix up my sentences… so my post above doesn’t make sense.

    I am just gonna give up and go to bed tonight.



  358.  #359Ella on April 12, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Memee,

    I have been thinking about you.

    Sending you loving and warm vibes. I hope you can feel them.

    xoxoxox



  359.  #360Lorelei on April 12, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    I’ve been following along the thread about Meemee’s situation.

    Meemee – I would feel very , very worried if you involve X’s family in this difficult matter. Your latest posts seem to suggest that you have reached your own decision . . but I too feel concerned for your safety, emotionally at least, if you bring his family into it.

    My very limited understanding of X’s family’s culture, as high caste Hindu Brahmins is this: they would not see you as having any valid claim upon either X or his family. X doesn’t see you as a person. His family won’t either. They may feel embarrassed by you. They may feel angry with you, they may be as unpleasant to you as X has been, especially now he is engaged to a girl they approve of. I believe you said that you yourself would not have been approved of as a girlfriend or potential wife.

    I understand how you feel you want to get them involved, for the money and to make you feel right. But I am afraid that it could backfire horribly on you.

    You would be inviting them to be angry with you. Maybe even vengeful. Please do not bring down more anger on your head by contacting X’s family. It will not change X’s behaviour. They will take his side. And they might punish you, subtly or not so subtly, for embarrassing them, even if you feel you are ‘right ‘ to try and get the money out of them.

    To contact them would be like punishing yourself . . . or like hiring them to punish you more than X has already done. Why would you do that to yourself?

    [I know, I know, masculine voice, advising . . . sorry if I offend by being very direct about my thoughts. And I’m aware I may be out of date by the time you read this.]



  360.  #361LonePlum on April 12, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    294 Meemee

    ***Or is it that the issue is not about him marrying me right now, it is all about he failed on his duty towards someone whom he gor pregnant?
    Meemee ***

    Yes that’s it

    But first your first question:
    You had an agreement. He said he would pay the expenses related to the pregnancy and with no bills.
    Send him EVERYTHING related to the pregnancy, infection, cabs, anything, phone calls, anything.
    Send him the total, the final number, the sum of it all. Don’t bother with the details in a first time.
    If he writes back that he wants the details, then send him the details.

    Don’t be afraid, you are not begging or stealing. He is the one at fault, he owes money to you
    You should have never had to pay in the first place. But then again, you should have never gotten pregnant from him either.
    A scum is a scum from beginning to end.

    Cono! He did not pay a restaurant, not a flower and now he does not pay all the hospital bills! If you don’t ask him, he does not pay!
    Cono I’d kill him
    OK, stop me, stop me
    My rage is shallow, a general rage stuff.
    Meemee’s rage is real.
    Good, it will drive her fast to where she got to go.

    So to answer your second question
    He is responsible after you walked away.
    You walked away, you understood he did not want to marry you and only wanted sex.
    You told him you wanted a relationship and you did the walk away.
    You kept away from him, you did good
    He kept visiting your office, teasing you, asking if he could go back to your home with you.
    He had no respect for what you told him
    He knocked at your home door with a prenuptial gift; He said he was going to date you like a boy friend.

    WHICH IS THE PROOF HE UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID. HE KNEW SEX MEANT RELATIONSHIP FOR YOU OR ELSE HE WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN THE PRENUPTIAL GIFT AND HE WOULD HAVE NOT PROMISED TO TAKE YOU OUT ON DATES.

    You were under the spell of a liar manipulator.
    It is very different from being stupid as you have written sometimes.
    He knew you by heart.
    He knew how much you were hooked to his vibes, he knew the lies would be enough, his trick was to make sure he was near you so you could not refuse him sexually.
    We smell our partner and it goes right into our receptors.
    He knocked at you door, he was at your apartment, he was pleading to see you and to give you a gift of love.
    Yes he is guilty. He knew you did not want to be a sex toy, he knew you cried because of it and you’d rather not see him . He knew you would have sex only if he started a relationship. He knew sex is meant to create babies, he knew if he created a baby, he could not raise it.

    Afterwards, when you cried and claimed that he had promised you a relationship, he said clearly that he said whatever needed to be said to get sex.
    He knew
    He is guilty
    If he did not want to deal with abortion and money for abortion, the best bet for him is to never touch a woman he can’t marry.

    Now, is this above, helping you to make a good life for yourself?
    No
    You and I know it is your responsibility because it was your interest to take care of your life and not open the door.
    Yes he is guilty of pushing you into sex again, fooling you with lies, and guilty of not taking care or the contraception. How dare he count on you for that, when he is the one who does not want babies and marriage!
    If I speak to him I say he is responsible for everything and I mean it.
    But if I speak to you and I want to make sure you don’t allow another man to hurt you , I say you are responsible.
    Your best friend in the whole wide word is yourself. I am asking your best friend to take care of you from today on. To be responsible when she chooses whom you sleep with, whom you flirt with, whom you trust worthy of holding your heart. She is responsible for your for ever and each second of your life.

    He did what was good for him, he is not responsible for your safety, not in his heart.
    So if you are not responsible for you safety either, who takes care of your safety? How can you survive?

    Now the other part of your question is different.
    Yes the money is not about the relationship.
    It is about the fact that he penetrated you, he knows that, he is aware of that, and he knows he came into you.
    There is nothing else to say. It does not matter if you knew he did not want to marry you or not

    HE KNEW HE DID NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU
    YET HE DID WHAT MUST BE DONE TO MAKE BABIES.
    IT IS HIS DOING.
    YOU DID NOT PUT SOMETHING INTO HIM. YOU DID NOTHING.
    HE PUT SOMETHING INTO YOU. YOU ARE THE RECEIVER.

    HE COULD HAVE:
    **NOT SLEPT WITH A WOMAN HE CAN’T MARRY
    **USED A CONDOM
    **NOT COME INSIDE HER

    YET HE CHOSE TO
    **SLEEP WITH A WOMAN HE CAN’T MARRY
    **NOT USE CONTRACEPTION
    **COME INSIDE HER

    The pregnancy is all HIS.
    Don’t you let him convince you it is a woman’s problem. In your case it is even worse, you did not want sex with him any more. He lied to you to get you pregnant. How dare he even suggest it is your responsibility.

    Now as for the abortion
    If he had married you, you would have kept the baby.
    HE IS THE ONE WHO DOES NOT WANT THE BABY. HE IS THE ONE WHO NEEDS THE ABORTION TO GO ON WITH HIS LIFE.
    The abortion is HIS as well.

    Again you and I know that for you to have a happy and good life, you need to be responsible of your body. Don’t ever again expect a man to take care of the contraception, unless he is your real lover/husband and you know why you can trust him.
    Two planks would make me feel safer and only if I am the one squishing balls in between, otherwise, do not ever trust a man to take care of the contraception for you.

    Yet, on his side, he is responsible for the pregnancy IMPOSED ON YOU as he lied to you to penetrate you, and for the abortion as he is the one who does not want to get married.

    xxx



  361.  #362KS on April 12, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    #350
    Ohhhh Ella,
    Dear that post made absolute, PERFECT sense to me. I find that I have been struggling with the same feelings and questions for MONTHS. If you find the answer please let me know. I really dont want to WANT HIM anymore….but he continues to intrude into my thoughts.



  362.  #363aradea on April 12, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    #350 Ella,
    Ahh, I feel this still sometimes about MessyEx. I am just holding my faith that everything is as it should be for me to live my best life- we dated, loved, and broke up all for good reasons. Whatever happens next between him and me will also happen for good reason, and there is no outcome that isn’t the right one- if we end up together or not, happy with the choice or not, only I can choose happiness, and the way things are/would be with him would not feel happy to me as things stand.

    But, as I imagine you are, I miss those wonderful things we shared. I feel wishful I could have had all that awesomeness without the drama and indecisiveness. He’s made it clear it’s a package deal. I don’t want that package. it will cost me too much.



  363.  #364Rori Raye on April 12, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Lucy Ann – thank you so much for caring so much and defending me! And – no – it doesn’t bother me! I just wrote a comment on the article, so you can see my take on it –I just think we’re all different, and we all work differently, and anything that gets a discussion going and shakes up assumptions we all make is a GOOD thing! Also – I LOVE Evan! He’s truly great – and our work is just totally different. He’s saying “be cool” – and I’m working to HELP you actually be cool. For real – whatever that means to you. He can’t say “breathe from your vagina” – but I can! And I would never advocate “dumping” a man who’s a good man but not stepping up without first using the situation to try my tools and see if there’s something here for YOU to learn! What if we’re only just pushing love away? What if we need to discover what’s going on inside us that rejects intimacy so that the next man can be a better fit for us? This is not Evan’s area of work – and it is mine…so I see a lovely teamwork here, yes, with some glitches. I am so grateful to you for taking what we’re working on here out there and advocating for it, sharing it, clarifying it, and spreading it. Love, Rori



  364.  #365turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Mel @350. I’d go to the car dealership and pick up some brochures, get some financing information, and go home and leave it all on the coffee table. If he insists on leaving you home alone, all damn day… then let him think about the possibility of buying you a new car so you can have a life outside your home too.

    Or, I’d call a cab, get a hotel room, and not answer your phone until morning. Leave him a note if you want.



  365.  #366Lilybelle on April 12, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Tinque~

    Before I catch up~ I want to say Happy Birthday to YOU!!!

    Hope you are having a wonderful day!!

    ~Lil



  366.  #367turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Happy Birthday Tinque, hope it was fabulous!!!! 🙂



  367.  #368luzydel on April 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Myself is healing, she thinks about the men in her life, but she doesn’t miss them. Me is helping her heal; me is the best date she ever had 😉

    It doesn’t matter if these men had an expiration date on them. The man that will love myself Will love her as much as Me. Who knows who he is, myself is happy with or without him because she is the onlyone who can make her trully happy.



  368.  #369Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Loving me

    feeling tired in body from laboring and hoeing

    feels nice to feel my divinity

    love living this way

    i love you. – i see your divinity

    i’m sorrry – i’m sorry for bringing my past memories in between our divinity

    please forgive me – please forgive me for generating the blocking energy with my memories

    thank you – it is done



  369.  #370Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Happy Birthday Tinque



  370.  #371Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Pseudonominyous –

    I have those tools of Pat Carrington but this was inspired by something else.

    It was an inner bonding article about how to validate myself.

    It came to me to validate myself after Matthew Walters on a coaching session suggested that that woudl help alleviate my loneliness. It is working.

    Orna Walters’ suggestion to do a “child date” for myself also has worked.

    What i do to validate myself is thank myself for all the “boy energy” as Rori calls it… stuff i do for myself during the day.

    I was having a hard time, really didn’t feel like washing myself or painting my nails, or getting out and doing stuff.

    I started writing thank you’s here to myself to thank myself.

    Since then i just automatically do way more stuff for myself than before… and feel comfortable and natural doing it.

    It’s working for me and i feel very pleased.

    I also feel much less lonely. It really works to validate me, and then my “boy” just like a real man, just does more and more to please me.



  371.  #372Lilybelle on April 12, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    361: Lone Plum~

    Bravo. Very well put.

    I am very careful about speaking ill of anyone but this man, is not a man. He is a despicable, manipulative man. Rephrase… Trying to re-phrase this and not very successfully.

    ALL the money, Meemee. Every last penny for every single expense you had…even for the feminine products you had to purchase after the procedure. EVERY penny!

    If you have to see him to receive this money, then you very gracefully, walk away with your head held high knowing that you are empowered to live the life you want.

    *Please Universe, hold Meemee tight*

    ~Lil



  372.  #373Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    feeling horny papi! hehe

    last night i dreamt about PORN!

    wow!

    i dreamt i was a looking at porn

    i kinda remember the kind of porn it was too!

    wat da wow? lol



  373.  #374Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I’m going to be very honest here. I would not chase him down for the money.

    I think it’s awesome if you can do it and feel good, but for me, i’ve felt more comfortable taking care of it on my own.

    I’d rather just get away from him.



  374.  #375Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    i DO wish i were more (what my judger calls) “brave” and got good treatment from men. but i’ve been scared in the past.

    i would feel excited if Meemee Does get more money.

    hmm…

    maybe this is a something i can learn here



  375.  #376Lucy Ann Ladybug on April 12, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Rori, thank you. I suppose it’s the “glitches” that bother me, because I don’t want to see women disrespected by a man saying they are in a car heading off a cliff if they don’t listen to him and do what he says. That feels BAD. I don’t want to be treated that way by a man.

    It feels like listening to a hell fire and brimstone evangelist. 🙁

    I read your comment on his site, and am grateful for the way you articulated your viewpoint.

    Who knows? Maybe good will come out of this and more women will be exposed to your healing work because of it — kinda like when Joseph’s brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt — he ended up being in the right place at the right time to save the country from starvation 🙂

    I’m glad you are handling it so graciously. Thank you for your beautiful example to us.

    <3
    Lucy Ann Ladybug 🙂



  376.  #377Daria on April 12, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    LUCY ANN – it IS like being Joseph. Constantly moving our thoughts to the positive, love love loving everything….

    can you see that NOTHING is “bad” because it transforms into good?

    we’re transforming everything into Good with our soft femininity!

    Go RORI!



  377.  #378Lucy Ann Ladybug on April 12, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    LIZ – “What do you feel about partners (married or not) who swing?”

    Imo, it is just a lifestyle choice, like drinking or porn or anything else people have different preferences about.

    TN man found a girl who loves the same polyamorous/swinging lifestyle that he is interested in, so it works really well for them. She was “bi” to begin with, so that made it even easier.

    He wants me to be a part of their love relationship — and I do believe he really loves me — but ultimately I want a traditional marriage. So for now I have said no. (The fact that he lives 4 hours away makes it easier to say no. 😉 )

    But sometimes I wish I was into that, because I do love him, and he’s very hot and cute and fun, and the two of them (and one new male friend) are having a blast, while I sit here with no one. 🙁 Boohoooooo!

    But if your friend feels bad with it, then she feels bad. It’s obviously not for everyone. I hope she finds the love she wants and deserves.

    <3
    Lucy



  378.  #379Lucy Ann Ladybug on April 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    “can you see that NOTHING is “bad” because it transforms into good?” (Daria)

    Yes, I can see that, thanks, Daria.

    Like Joseph.

    That has always been my favorite B*ble story.

    🙂



  379.  #380Daria on April 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    yay the guy GETRIGHT hooked me up with yesterday, is really pursuing me in an awesome gentleman yet persistent way!

    i’m feeling excited

    yay for Ho’oponopono transforming situations for me!



  380.  #381Pseudonymous on April 12, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    @Daria, re #371

    What i do to validate myself is thank myself for all the “boy energy” as Rori calls it… stuff i do for myself during the day.

    I was having a hard time, really didn’t feel like washing myself or painting my nails, or getting out and doing stuff.

    I started writing thank you’s here to myself to thank myself.

    Since then i just automatically do way more stuff for myself than before… and feel comfortable and natural doing it.

    It’s working for me and i feel very pleased.

    I also feel much less lonely. It really works to validate me, and then my “boy” just like a real man, just does more and more to please me.

    Well, that is one helluva great result! It’s that comfortable and natural part that really eludes me. Some days, just breathing can be a chore! 😮

    I’m having similar issues with motivation, but I’m feeling inspired by your results. Seems like a good way to end the day and is worth a try at the very least, but I’ll probably just keep a private list. I’m thinking it could be even more impactful to tap through all the points while repeating the thank you’s, even without doing any set-up phrase.

    Thanks for your reply.



  381.  #382Daria on April 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Pseudonymous – you’re telling me!!! (about the comfortable and natural) … until now, i was going unbathed for months! y es REALLY!

    and i had stopped brushing my teeth more than once a week

    now i just find myself doing it!!

    it’s amazing

    i expect that any second now i’ll find myself exercising and painting and creating new ish!



  382.  #383Boomer on April 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    155 Turquoise:

    “I want to want things for myself, I want to plan a future that I can create alone if necessary.”

    Brava. This has been my motivation for about two months now. I think finally accepting that I could be happy alone–and shedding my desperation–is what shifted my vibe to make me so appealing, at least in the short term, to all those men.

    I have created a life for myself and my kids–I created it without the help of a man and without thoughts of a man being part of it. I created it from ground zero, from complete decimation at the end of my marriage. Physical, financial, emotional decimation. It’s been four years, and I’ve made it back–and I’m better than I ever was. I am free. My kids are healthy. I am financially sound. I am as content as I’ve ever been in my adult life.

    I wonder sometimes if inviting a man into this is a good idea. Maybe that’s why men like me but do not stay. I am clearly ambivalent.



  383.  #384Queenbee on April 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I’m back from my ‘meeting’ with the ‘amazing guy’ (not so amazing – LOL!).

    RE 352 Aradea – thanks for this! It really helps. Especially what you said below:

    “- I feel like I deserve to be paid for my skills and talents, so I also have misgivings about *giving* away my income, yet I love to share and would use my skills and talents for free for most anything/anyone if my financial needs are filled.”

    RE: I can give my talents away for free to a charity organization of my choice. “If my financial needs are filled…” that’s still iffy – I don’t feel good about giving to a man who doesn’t need me to give to him. It feels like overfunctioning and chasing him. So that’s my decision.

    “-I feel I’m taken more seriously by my paying clients than someone I’m doing a favor for. I feel they are more respectful of my time and expertise when they pay.”

    RE: This is exactly my point. It would be horrible for me and horrible for him. And that is just it.

    So anyway, I’ve finally confirmed why I want to CD and why I did not feel ready to give up the intention.

    The man has been pushing my boundaries trying to get me to chase him and subtly ‘blaming’ me and accusing me of not caring coz I refuse to pursue/ chase.

    1) He called me last night. I was not free. We talked and I let him know when to call back. He waited for me to call… , which I didn’t. This is the second time this has happened.

    I have told him before that I don’t feel comfortable calling etc. And anyway, I really did not have any reason to call – I was off doing my own thing. Plus when I call someone I have it down in my diary. It’s what feels good to me.

    He didn’t ask me about it today and I asked him in FMs coz I waited for his call.

    If he ‘misunderstood’ and waited for my call it would feel better if he brought it up. It feels bad when he pushes things under the carpet coz it feels inauthentic and I don’t like it.

    2) It doesn’t feel good to me to tell a guy when I’m free so he can see me. It’s just how my diary functions. It feels better for a guy to be direct if he wants to see me and I can work something out if I want to see him.

    There is no need for him to know what goes on in my diary. And for me to keep following him with ‘ok if not this date, can you do this date, or this other date….” eeek! And my diary fills up a week in advance. This is what feels good to me and I don’t want to be approached at the last minute.

    Anyway, as Rori asks us to experiment, I decided to experiment and told him I could do Wed. He came back with he couldn’t. It didn’t feel good.

    I had stated that I only had Wed free. So now he could come back with since my whole week is booked up and he can’t do Wed, then he can blame me for not caring coz I can’t/ won’t see him.

    I felt sick and tired of this expectation of me to pursue and the blame that went with it. So I created a meeting with him today using FMs to share my feeling and clear things.

    We met. He was happy. I was not. He thought now he ‘had’ me. I felt like in a time debt coz I still needed to recover the time today for whatever I had planned and I was not FULLY present coz I was thinking of all I needed to do.

    I communicated this to him in FMs, albeit passionately. (I HATE PEOPLE MESSING WITH MY TIME/ DIARY – lol, is truly how I feel coz I know what my life is like and what feels good to me). – I didn’t say it that way of course, but my frustration came through for sure…

    He responds with ‘he has no idea what I’m talking about’. I hate this. I feel so invalidated. He starts talking about what I’m saying he is doing ‘WRONG’ and I’m like ‘who’s talking about you’. So this is the word tennis. I hate it. It feels bad.

    It feels bad when he responds to me with no compassion or understanding. It makes me feel like shutting down. One thing I know, I cannot marry a man who speaks to me in this way. Like a putdown and with judgements of what I’m expressing when I’m feeling frustrated in the relationship.

    It feels better to have a man who communicates with me lovingly, no matter what.

    This is my #1 need for my life. My dad is a BIG criticizer and it SUCKS!!!! I just want to be loved now in the next part of my life. I really cannot handle rough talk from a man. I feel I deserve my life to get better and not worse or the same.

    I ended up using scatological language and he asked for the bill 🙂

    Finally, he got it that he needs to arrange things with me a week in advance. But I already felt disconnected from him.

    The main thing I noticed is that he is a man who can/ and knows how to step up. He says he is available and wants a future with me. Then I feel like he is trying to push me into the friend zone by suggesting I pursue him and we develop this level of familiarity where we are ‘so cool’ with each other. All the while, I know that this is a sure way for him to STOP falling in love with me. So, it feels like a trap… and I know it.

    I also do not want to have that ‘so cool’ familiarity with a man. I’m a Siren and I need my space and mysteriousness. Being ‘oh so cool’ feels like it’s leading me back to overfunctioning-doomat-crumbtaker.

    I can see how uncomfortable he is with a woman giving to him. Coz he asked me to help with his outfit for a wedding… and as I work on it, he talks about doing shopping for me… and he doesn’t want me to DO all the stuff.

    So to me, it’s clear. I can feel, see, smell and touch the inauthenticity.

    I want him to fall in love with me. But I know he won’t if I give up my boundaries. I’m not willing to overfunction, pursue and end up in the friend zone as a doormat/ crumb-taker.

    So I’m done. I’m backing off, leaning back and going off to do my own thing.

    It resolves the whole CDing thing for me. I’m getting my imminent work done and then I’m creating an online profile and getting back on fb. This feels good. 🙂

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY TINQUE!!

    Loneplum – thanks for the great words you are giving to Meemee. It feels so relevant for me too, to heal my past.

    Goodnight Sirens!!

    Love to all!!

    xoxoxoxox



  384.  #385Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Maybe Daria’s tool will help me get more motivated too. Thank you Lucy for folding the laundry. Thank you Lucy for calling my daughter and driving my son to the doctor. Thank you Lucy for buying food for us at Burger King. Thank you Lucy for taking care of me by writing on Evan’s blog. Thank you Lucy for feeding the dog. Thank you Lucy for filing that broken nail. Thank you Lucy for putting dishes in the dishwasher.



  385.  #386Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Happy happy happy birthday Tinque! xo <3



  386.  #387T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Happy Birthday Tinque!!



  387.  #388T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Boomer, I was wondering how your date on Friday went? Did you go out with the buff guy?



  388.  #389T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Luzydel – thank you for the recommendation on the book. I have it on hold at my library – can’t wait to read it.



  389.  #390T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    I am finding that GAASB is online ALOT on Match. Yesterday it was bothering me…today not so much. I am remembering to tell myself that I am the prize…not him. Now it just kind of looks pathetic to me that he is on so much.



  390.  #391ybelle on April 12, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Hi to all…I’m reading Rori’s blogs for quite sometime now and it feels good to know that I can connect with other women and share and learn things. I used to be clueless about this feminine thing that we women, as Rori says always have. I used to think that being feminine is like being a self absorbed person who is always concern of looking good and being vain. So I kinda did the opposite because I don’t want to labeled like that. I don’t fix my hair…well I comb it (hehe! of course!) but I don’t style it, I always wear it down and always covering half of my face when I was in elementary and high school, even when I was in college, I never dare to ponytail it because I feel like I’m bare coz I have a circle-shaped face so I feel like it’s too big (even if it’s not that big). That my hair is too thin and my thighs are too big etc. etc…I only noticed the ugly things about my physical self and focus only on them instead of the good ones. I think it’s a little bit of a distorted view of myself.
    I can’t even accept compliments because I don’t think and see myself as a beautiful person that is worthy of the compliment. I would say things like naaah I’m not that beautiful or I’m not that good at certain things coz I thought it was a humble thing to say. That if I say yeah, thank you, it would look like I’m boasting.
    I would act boyish because I deny my feminity, although I know for certain that I’m not a lesbian (100 % on that!). When I was in high school, one of my male cousin noticed my boyish acts so he said it doesn’t look good to see a girl acting like a boy. So I thought of it for sometime, but at that time I am so clueless about these things. Being a teenager with my mom working abroad and living with my dad and 3 siblings (2 boys and a girl which acts like me too!) and surrounded more of male cousins, I have no one to learn things from. I didn’t even wore make up ’till I reached 25 years old!
    I have sooo many insecurity issues because my self esteem is low. I used to think all the time of what step am I gonna do next or what am I gonna say in a certain situation instead of just letting things happen because I’m so concerned about making mistakes and what people might gonna say after and gossip about it. And things would start role playing in my mind and I would feel bad about it and it would stay with me for days! even if it didn’t or wouldn’t happen at all and people doesn’t seem to care about it.
    I’ve read in one of Rori’s blog post comments that really uplift me. She said something like this “I don’t need anyone else to tell me how amazing I am because of what I-DO-I-KNOW I am amazing just because I exist and because I am a WOMAN.” Those words hit me, and I realized yeah, being a woman or being feminine feels good coz you don’t have to be DOING too much, just be yourself which means being in your feminine self and learn to receive love and be loved.I love being feminine and the feminine energy but I also embrace my boy energy.
    More power and God bless to all… 😉



  391.  #392Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Camile, one of my fb friends has 5 Pirates tix for tomorrow night that he can’t use – can you use them?



  392.  #393Boomer on April 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    T-Girl, hi. The date itself was nice. He is a very good looking man. Nice dinner. He was very aggressive, as I thought he might be. We had a lovely time, but he was very insistent at the end, despite my attempts to “be elegant.” Camile was right–he “just wanted laid.” There have been a few emails since, but of the “have a nice day” variety. I will not be surprised not to hear from him.

    I am feeling a bit…irritable about it all. I am also pretty ill–I landed in the hospital yesterday after I replied to his last generic/disinterested email, but I am home now. I was tempted to email him and let him know what happened to me, but he has not replied to my last email. So…no contact. No reaching out. I feel proud of my restraint. But I still feel sad about it. I wanted him to like me. It was hard to “just practice” on him. Moving on.

    Right now I need to just get better and get back to work.



  393.  #394Boomer on April 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Queenbee…”scatalogical language.” I love it. I find myself wondering how clueless he really is–or if this a power struggle?



  394.  #395kaitlyn on April 12, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Happy birthday, TINQUE!!!



  395.  #396tinque on April 12, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Thank you everyone for all the Happy Birthday wishes, my song SLV which I just played and rocked out to. I spent the day in NYC with my dear friend DocK for those who remember her, despite the crazy weather, rain and brief high winds and more rain and more rain, BUT I wore my sundress and killer heels anyway. Got me some fabulous new, sparkly make up on K’s credit card (oops) and a fun flirty skirt for summer. YAY!!!

    femenergylove – tinque@sexandheart.com

    Love you all. xxoo



  396.  #397KS on April 12, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Tinque,
    Happy Birthday! So glad you enjoyed your day. 🙂



  397.  #398Boomer on April 12, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    ybelle-welcome. Femininity is not necessarily about looking “girlie.” Just be you. You ARE plenty feminine just as you are! You seem to be really self-aware. Stay here and you will learn a lot.



  398.  #399gina on April 12, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Ladies, would love your insight. D is offering to buy me 2-way ticket to Boston to visit him this summer, and I’m not sure what to do. I still feel pissed that he BLEW IT BEFORE HE LEFT. I am angry at him. And yet I want it to be better, and I want to see him in Boston. I also am ANGRY AT THE STUPID GOVERNMENT and DO NOT feel willing to go through a TSA patdown or scan. I just am not up for it. Hmm…maybe I just feel torn a little, but I pretty much don’t feel willing to go I guess. That feels sad! I would love to want to go!



  399.  #400gina on April 12, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    I feel feminine lately from doing my hair and doing my nails. I DEFINITELY recommend it as a way to feel sexy and feminine and beautiful and worthy of love and affection and attention. And I definitely have received more attention and respect.



  400.  #401KS on April 12, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Boomer,
    Not trying to be intrusive but I hope your physical health is ok.????? Take good care of yourself please!



  401.  #402T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Boomer, sorry to hear you landed in the hospital. Hope you are ok now.

    I agree, no contact is the best. I leaned forward after my date on Friday, but I’m not going to do that anymore. If they like us and are the right one, they no where to find us, right?



  402.  #403T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Gina,

    I think you don’t want to go. Being angry at the government or going through a TSA pat down seems like an excuse to me. And no offense, a feable one at that. It is ok to admit that you don’t want to go for the sole reason that he blew it.



  403.  #404gina on April 12, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    t-girl, I appreciate your response, though I feel unheard. I don’t want to fly because I do believe the TSA a way that a police state is being imposed in our society and I absolutely reject the idea, and I don’t want to cooperate. I haven’t flown in a couple of years, and don’t care to. I feel defensive about the word “feeble.” I see that society is feeble in its acceptance of all kinds of BS from Big Brother. And as much research as I’ve done about the Puppeteers behind our media and government, and as much as I’ve tried to educate others, I’d be a hypocrite if I did just go along with what feels like a complete violation of my individual rights, and what is a violation of my constitutional rights. If I was to do it, I’d make some sort of statement, like the woman who wore lingerie as a way to protest (because she felt that she had been violated during a patdown the previous month) or a guy who wore speedos and a tank. But D would have to make me WANT to go if I was going to go through the hassle of being all courageous and crap.

    But, back to him…yeah, I just can’t wrap my head around me taking a trip to Boston, when he missed his chance to have me when we were both here in the same city. Grr…I guess the only thing that compels me to want to go is the wish that he could step it up and make it all better. But, alas…he hasn’t.



  404.  #405turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Boomer, I hope you are feeling ok, and sorry to hear about the date. Some guys are just transparent. I dated a former model once, he just wanted laid too… I resisted for awhile, but finally did. It was terrible. I felt like he thought he was in a porno. He just kept poking me!!!! lol. SO, you may not be missing a thing!!! So glad to hear you have the life you want. I’ve been kind of stuck, doing ok, but not really movign forward.

    My alimony just ended, and while that is a little scary… it also feels good to really be on my own, and make things happen for myself. He pays a lot of child support, which does help 🙂

    My ex is redeploying (he was gone last March-December) to Afghanistan at the end of May. I’m very sad for my girls, and still very emotional when it comes to him. I wish I didn’t feel anything for him, but I honestly still do. Ugh, if I had someone else solid in my life, I think it would be easier. It’s hard to separate myself from him because I try so hard to encourage and support his relationship with the girls.

    Lucy, thanks so much for thinking of me, and I’d LOVE to go, but I can’t. It’s rainy and miserable here, and I offered to watch my friends’ daughter because she’s going to the hockey game. Maybe next time though 🙂 Was sweet of you to think of me.

    I signed up for okcupid, we’ll see how it goes. This guy Mike I’d talked to before on POF wrote to me again on POF, gave me his number, said he was sorry he hadn’t talked to me in awhile. I gave him mine, he called… at 10:20. I didn’t answer. Didn’t feel like talking.

    There isn’t anyone super showing up, so I’m not motivated or encouraged about dating right now. Will feel good to focus on myself for awhile. I started making my Easter/Spring candy last night… yummy! It’s almost midnight, I’m heading to bed. Sleep well dear friends 🙂



  405.  #406turquoise3 on April 12, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Gina,

    If you like him and want to see what happens, go. If not, don’t go. It sounds like you want to punish him because he didn’t step up when you were in the same city. But, will you be punishing yourself by being stubborn? I understand that you wish it had been different, but it’s not. It’s done, the past is the past. Now, you have a choice, give it a chance, a real chance, or don’t. But, things don’t always work out the way we want, or on the timetable we want, but would you be willing to walk away from having this guy in your life at all? Eventually, he’ll stop asking and move on. How would that feel to you?

    I have a friend who just cancelled her wedding, intended to have her fiance move out, and she was SURE she wanted to break up. I cautioned her to take some time and think about it, because she just might get what she said she wanted. Make sure she really wanted it. Well, she pushed, he decided to leave, and then she talked him into staying. She didn’t really want to break up. She wanted him to realize he was going to lose her and wise up. That didnt’ happen, and now her degree of difficulty is lowered. She is a beautiful, amazing, talented young woman… and she’s getting crumbs from her fiance. YET, she didn’t want to lose him, even when it was her idea.

    I’d suggest just taking some time to really think about what you want. Maybe you could take a train? I don’t know how far you live from him. Good luck.



  406.  #407LD on April 12, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Happy Birthday Tinque!



  407.  #408Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    From the Rusty Thread (where I can’t post – Rusty, are you reading here too?)… I’m hella confused. You said a man can’t make us feel special by compliments, gifts, exclusivity, or even marriage bc he’s likely done those things for tons of women… so the only way left for him to show us how special we are is for him to deny us sex? I feel confused. I like sex. Being denied it makes me feel sad, not special.



  408.  #409T-Girl on April 12, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Hi Gina, sorry you felt unheard. My dad is a TSA agent so I hear the other side of the story and how the media has blown the whole TSA out of proportion, so perhaps I discounted your concern and am sorry for that. I do realize you have your concerns and respect you for that.

    As far as him, it seems like your gut is already telling you what, or what not to do.



  409.  #410gina on April 12, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Thank you Turquoise3. Yes, it’s true. I do feel like punishing him. And I feel crappy that he still isn’t pursuing me well enough now. And it totally sucks to think of him moving on. I think I would feel good about taking a train. Yeah, I feel like I’m pushing him away and it feel sad that he’s complying. but I feel crappy about this long distance business altogether. boo…
    Like for instance, the other night he called me all honestly wanting me and sharing how stressed he feels in his new job, and he was anxious about a big event the next day. I didn’t hear from the day of his event, and I was grappling with whether I wanted to reach out to him and wish him luck or something. i thought maybe because I didn’t follow my impulse, that maybe he was feeling miffed. But when we did finally talk a couple of days later, he was telling me about how some 19 year old girls were assisting him at the event, and I felt PISSEd that the reality was that he didn’t need me that day, so that’s why I didn’t hear from him. He’s toying with the idea of keeping me, and he wants me to come out there so he can find out. And i guess that’s fair. But I feel pissed that he’s testing and figuring it out. Like if he doesn’t know for sure that he does want me, screw off! I feel bitter and angry towards him!



  410.  #411gina on April 12, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Turquoise3, that’s a really sad story about your friend!! that sucks! i wonder if they’ll ever move past that – sounds like a major breach in teh relationship. I wonder why she had to do that??



  411.  #412gina on April 12, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Wow, T-Girl: interesting that you have a totally different perspective!!



  412.  #413gina on April 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Turquoise3, maybe your friend just felt like he wasn’t really committed so she wanted to beat him to the punch, but it was kinda crazy what she did, so she feels out of touch with the original feeling she had that things weren’t right, and now it’s all complicated. Ugh…



  413.  #414Pseudonymous on April 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    OK, well, I’m usually good to go on the basic personal hygiene – showering and teeth brushing. (Thank you, Pseudy.) But, now that warmer weather is coming, being “comfortable and natural” about shaving the legs is gonna require a helluva lot of thank you’s!

    Otherwise, my “boy energy” needs to go to more things like were on Lucy’s post … laundry, dishes, housework, in general. Never any fears about me “overfunctioning” in any of those areas. 🙂



  414.  #415Brenda on April 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Kaitlyn,

    RE: #235 – That sounds awful with your friend calling you stupid. I hope next time you say something like, “That feels awful to hear. I don’t want to be disrespected” and use the walk out tool. Yuck.



  415.  #416Tmizz on April 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    May I make a comment about the posting of various email newsletters from other coaches and experts on this blog? I’ve read some of what’s been going back and forth, and I think there is merit to both posting and to what EMK had to say as well. But I have a feeling about it, which is entirely apart from any issues of copyright, etc. And that is, as a reader, I feel this space belongs to us, and I come here to read what all of you are going through and to learn from your experiences and wisdom, sometimes share.

    I really appreciate learning from and learning about other experts. But I really feel that this is not the forum for some of what I’ve been reading. Some of these emails and newsletters are very long. I might not want to read the whole thing. I might, if I got it in my inbox. But it feels like over-loading to me to have the full text here, in the blog. To me, it would feel better, if someone wanted to share another expert’s wisdom, to say a few sentences about how awesome the person is, and maybe what the topic is about, and then include a link to their page, or their information. That would be a lot more useful to me, and would give us all the ability to check it out, if we wanted to, and “opt-in” if we wanted to – or not.

    I hope that’s helpful. I just think that we already generate so many posts here on our own. It might be better if people just want to edit a little bit, and share just the nuggets of what’s really important and relevant to what they want to say.

    My 2 cents 🙂

    xoxo, T



  416.  #417Brenda on April 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Hi Celtic Blue!

    Nice to finally be sure who you are! 🙂 Would you believe my counselor told me about the stop sign tool?? I was grinning from ear to ear!



  417.  #418Daria on April 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    I don’t want to not have relevant excepts of other written material posted here. I feel a bit panicked thinking I’d miss out on what might be helpful. I also record my personal discoveries of others material.

    I feel angry that to save someone from scrolling down, I’d be limited in what to post.



  418.  #419Daria on April 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Now I feel guilty- whoa I felt triggered…!!! I felt all fight fight!

    I felt panicked and scared and got all defensive and disconnected in my trigger.



  419.  #420Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Saying goodnite darlings…

    Boomer that is bummer – we suspected as much but it still sux to get your hopes up. I hope you are better??

    Turquoise – I had to end up at drs to get my thyroid med. refilled and she said my lungs were clear – yeah, and thank you for the gentle nudge….and they couldn’t get a vein to draw blood for thyroid test so have to go to lab tomorrow,ugh…but then it’s over for a year!

    Tmizz, I felt the same way and I wrote Rori about it…I have a slight copyright problem too….she said she would think about it and maybe figure out a rule. I don’t like reading esp. the various emails –

    the best parallell I could find would be when I’m watching TV – and the Good Wife was all kinds of awesome tonite…and Michael J Fox plays a pretty hard ball unscrupulous lawyer on there, and I’m all in the show, thinking of ramifications and plot twists and my boyfriend starts babbling about Marty McFly.

    It makes me CRAZY…..I’m in THAT world….and don’t want to be on a different train.

    I do love hearing about other coaches work or theories or whatever and I doubt Rori wants a huge number of links….but I don’t even read the eletters I’ve signed up for myself. lol….

    so thanks for such a diplomatic way to make me feel less man out and also mentioning it.

    Wondering why Lucy is a ladybug?? and laughing at nuancedness – I’d love to hear a looong post of all the cd nuances ladybug when you have a laptop. It makes it sound all mysterious and indefinable…which of course then means it defies logical arguement, which of course makes me crazy.

    In an illogical way…

    haha….

    Happy tuesday everyone and sweet sweet dreams of all being well!

    J



  420.  #421Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    I too like having the excerpts here. Most of the time I have to use my phone and it is not super-fancy and I can’t usually open links with it. So I’m really glad when the whole thing is posted. If it’s something I’m not interested in, I just skip it.



  421.  #422Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Loneplum, Lorelei, Femwoman, Mel, SLV, KS, Life is too short, Daria, Alonka, Jaquiline, Rosa, Summerbaby,JNB, Mercedes, Queenbee, Lilybelle,Turquoise 3, Brenda and all others who supported me here.
    I am going to ask him for the rest of the money.
    Last time when I texted him I wrote in the full amount and mentioned that I am writing the actual expense i spent so far though there might be expenses in future. He wrote back to me saying that he will pay me what he has with him right now. I wrote to him again saying that the total amount was this much. No reply. He came. He made me wait at the coffee shop. He gave me exactly what he intended to give me.
    This feels irritating. He did not mention about the rest of the amount. He didnt say when he is going to give me that. He didnt say a word about it. He just gave what he planned to give. He took control even there.
    I didnt say or do anything. I was too scared to speak up then. I was too ashamed to fight for money. He knew I would not ask. Or may be he thought since that is partly my responsibility, I will take care of the rest.
    I just calculated. He paid me 60% of the total expenses. So I am going to ask him for the rest of it.
    I am asking for that not because it is going to solve my problems. No amount of money he gives me will solve my problems right now. But yet, I will ask for it. It is my last chance to get my power back.
    I dont want to part with him as two friends would part, leaving prospects of fiendship in future.
    I dont want to part with him as two ex lovers would part, holding on to the good times.
    I dont want to part with him as two colleauges would part- in respect or professionalism.
    I want to part with him as a man and woman would part- a man who failed on his duty and made a woman call and ask for money everytime she was in need and a woman who finally stood up for her.
    I am tempted to leave everything and go and take care of myself without even bothering for the rest of the money. And start everything anew.
    But if i do so, i will have to start from where everything ended. And this is where everything ended- He declared his wedding and asked me to stay away. I asked for money and gave him the exact amount. He came. He made me wait for 2 hours. He gave exactly what he intended to give. He left without even mentioning the rest of the expenses.
    That feels so powerless a point to begin with.
    I want to begin from a point which feels powerful to me.
    A point where I feel that I didnt take every crumb he threw at me, but I stood up for myself and got it.

    I am not going to contact his family. As I mentioned his father is personal secratary to the PM of India. They are more powerful than I can imagine. They can do anything, anything to spoil my life. They may even involve my parents and leave them hurt.

    I am going to send him a text
    “I am wondering when you will pay the money for the hospital expenses in full. Do let me know”

    I want some help here. If you think this text does not sound good, help me rephrase it.

    I will write here what he replies.
    What remains in our head most of the time is how things ended- the last scene.
    I dont want my last scene with him to be something like a helpless woman in pain, waiting for a man, and leaving with whatever he offered.
    I want my last scene to be something I can feel happy and proud about.
    When years down, when I talk to my daughter I should be able to tell her that at one point in her mama’s life she had to face a challenge and she faced the most horrible jerk on the earth and she left him not in helplessness but in power.
    Help me.
    This is going to be a tough time for me.
    I value all your opinion.
    I am doing what feels best to me right now.
    I need your support.
    If you approve of the text, I will send him the text today.
    I want you guys with me for support.
    Meemee



  422.  #423Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    @418: Daria says:
    “…I’d be limited in what to post…”

    In addition to it being a general courtesy, the custom of posting links work very well. It’s especially handy if you open a Notepad doc on your task bar and drop links/sites you want to check out later, then you have the option of copy and paste info.

    Or “favorite” the link

    Or even save the save the html web page onto desktop and/or print it. This works well when there is chart etc.

    ****************************************************
    238: Daria says:
    here’s a chart I use. It has worked for me.
    https://morroccomethod.com/lunar-hair-chart
    Thursday, 7 April 2011 @ 11:08pm
    /dating/the-circular-dating-argument/
    ****************************************************

    xoxo
    SLV



  423.  #424Lucy Ann Ladybug on April 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Jacqueline, no need to go crazy – it’s still all completely logical – very much so – in fact many people apparently can’t follow the complexity of the logic – and yes the logic is nuanced, absolutely, and Rori agrees that this is so. Unfortunately, Rusty has just read Evan’s second-hand version of CDing and is talking about it on a thread too long for me to write on. Ackkkk! I feel frustrated! I want to teach Rusty the nuances. He is a cool guy and I think he would get it. If you want to paste this on



  424.  #425Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    I am thinking of Honey.
    I dont know whether you visit the blog these days.
    But if you do, I want you to know that I remember you.
    Meemee



  425.  #426Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    @20: Jacqueline says:
    “…I’m watching TV – and the Good Wife was all kinds of awesome tonite…”

    It makes me want to start watching TV again… then I get all addicted… 😛

    xoxo
    SLV



  426.  #427Lucy on April 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    on the Rusty Thread for me that would be great. So far he is misunderstanding. 🙁 Rori also said on Ev’s blog that Cding is very complex and can’t be described adequately in a brief article. Yep. Nuances. Complexity. Rori rocks. Smart woman. Loving and wise too.



  427.  #428Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    @425: Meemee

    😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  428.  #429Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Done, Lucy Ann Lawless…heee….

    SLV! I’ve missed you – that show is one Rori claims as a favorite. The “Good” wife is a complex strong female character as are all the women on the show – you do know of Hulu???? free tv with minimal commercials, saving you 20 minutes an hour!!



  429.  #430Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Meemee – I was forgetting the political power.

    I like the end is what you remember, it’s very insightful.

    To me, the text gives him an out, a space to argue. And it feels a little breezy – I’d make it more urgent and also more personal to my needs/success –

    How about “You didn’t mention it and I didn’t want to fight with you, but I need the full amount to repay my school expenses. When can you have it?”

    Makes him have to deny he’s going to give it or give you a timeline…and I hope it’s before the marriage, or he might not come through – just a thought.

    I hope he will now!

    and yeah!!! you are sooooo much stronger than we ever thought. And wise, and self preserving and going to be….brilliant!! in whatever it is you do.

    Much love,
    Jacqueline



  430.  #431Jacqueline on April 12, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    SLV….make that saves you 20 minutes an hour as you watch hours more television than you every would have…lol

    g’nite again everyone!



  431.  #432Lucy Ann Ladybug on April 12, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline. But “Lawless”? “Law” is my middle name. Lucy Ann Law Ladybug, sheriff of Siren Island



  432.  #433Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    @429: Jacqueline says:
    “… – you do know of Hulu???? …”

    Not much. but oh yeah, did use it 2009 i got on a “Mary Tyler Moore” kick and I was watching the old shows.

    thanks@!!! for reminding me. I’ll go exploring HULU.

    xoxo
    SLV



  433.  #434Meemee on April 12, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    I am dragging myself to gym.
    It is not going to be like the heavy workouts i used to do.
    Two months gap is something horrible in a gym.
    May be, I will have to go to gym and look at the dumbbells and walk on the tread mill in the lowest speed and come back.
    But i am going to do it.
    I am dragging myself to do something which is good for my health.
    I am done with staying indoors and mourning and crying and feeling disturbed thinking about the woman whom he is going to take in his arms and freaking out imagine his wedding
    I AM DONE WITH THAT.
    I am going out. Get some fresh air and breeze and gym for some time.

    PLease take a look at the text I phrased.
    I will send it only after rephrasing it and discussing it with you.
    Jaqueline. Thanks my dear.
    Meemee



  434.  #435Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    @432: Lucy Ann Ladybug says:
    Thanks Jacqueline. But “Lawless”? “Law” is my middle name. Lucy Ann Law Ladybug, sheriff of Siren Island

    Maybe for the rest of us…

    Medieval Name Generator
    http://www.quizopolis.com/medieval-name/name-generator/8129/

    xoxo
    SLV



  435.  #436Rusty on April 12, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    @#14: Lorelei

    Ever heard of the Myers Briggs test? Find one, or more online. Find out what your four letter code is.

    I have had an official test done and done several that I found online. On every single one, score as an ENTJ. This code is called the Field Marshall, or Executive. Subtitle: natural or born leader.

    There are 8 letters that can give you 16 combinations

    Favorite world: Do you prefer to focus on the outer world or on your own inner world? This is called Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I).

    Information: Do you prefer to focus on the basic information you take in or do you prefer to interpret and add meaning? This is called Sensing (S) or Intuition (N).

    Decisions: When making decisions, do you prefer to first look at logic and consistency or first look at the people and special circumstances? This is called Thinking (T) or Feeling (F).

    Structure: In dealing with the outside world, do you prefer to get things decided or do you prefer to stay open to new information and options? This is called Judging (J) or Perceiving (P).

    This is mine:

    ENTJ
    Frank, decisive, assume leadership readily. Quickly see illogical and inefficient procedures and policies, develop and implement comprehensive systems to solve organizational problems. Enjoy long-term planning and goal setting. Usually well informed, well read, enjoy expanding their knowledge and passing it on to others. Forceful in presenting their ideas.

    I wonder how many see this as a pretty accurate description of me. When my professor did the tests on us, and he started telling me who I was, I was like, “Get out of my head.” It was scary how much this guy who I barely knew, now knew so much about my personality.

    Now what’s funny is I see some here who like to use the word “Feel” a lot. Or use these “feeling messages.” For those who are a T, it is asking them to be someone they aren’t. Not surprisingly, F’s use the word “feel” a lot while the T uses the word Think a lot. You could ask both types the same question, like “who will win the Super Bowl?”

    T’s will say something like, “I think Team A has the better Defense and I think there Offense while not better, will be able to score more points since Team B’s defense isn’t as good. Plus, I think those injuries will catch up to Team B. So I think Team A is going to win.”

    An F might give an identical answer but it would look like this.

    “I feel Team A has the better Defense and I feel that their Offense while not better, will be able to score more points since Team B’s defense isn’t as good. Plus, I feel pretty sure that those injuries will catch up to Team B. So I feel pretty confident that Team A is going to win.”

    OK, the point here is that you say you want a leader. If you can find guys on dating boards that use these, and I have seen them, look for guys who have TJ at the end. TJ’s are natural leaders.

    But understand, they are ruled by logic, not feelings. Doesn’t mean they are cold people. It means they are logical ahead of feelings. For instance, the professor used the example of how the two types would approach being told that they were to reduce the staff by 1/3. The T is going to use logic and facts and might say something like, Ed is young, single and energetic. He is making things happen here. He stays. Mary is a single mom and has had to leave work many times to tend to her child, she is gone.

    The F is going to say, Ed is young and single and energetic. He’ll find another job quickly, so he is gone. Mary is a single mom and needs this job so she stays.

    I don’t think it is surprising that TJs are natural leaders and an FJ or FP is not. Sorry but keeping the single mom might seem the more “human” thing to do, but it didn’t do the company any favors. The net value of the company went down. An energetic worker who will say all night to get the job done is gone and a single mom who can’t be counted on to be there still has her job.



  436.  #437Daria on April 12, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    It feels more difficult for me to click a link. I often skip them. An excerpt however catches my attention.

    I don’t want to not read excerpt and don’t want to stop posting them myself either.

    Also, links will link a whole article or ebook, when I might just want that one piece.

    This may be an influence in my perception – I don’t believe in intellectual property rights. Still do credit to excerpts though.



  437.  #438Rusty on April 12, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    @#384: Queenbee

    WOW, where to start off. First off, stop reading this because you don’t like criticism. You just want validation. I don’t do validation. It’s pointless unless the point is to not make progress but make somebody feel good.

    “The man has been pushing my boundaries trying to get me to chase him and subtly ‘blaming’ me and accusing me of not caring coz I refuse to pursue/ chase.

    1) He called me last night. I was not free. We talked and I let him know when to call back. He waited for me to call… , which I didn’t. This is the second time this has happened.

    I have told him before that I don’t feel comfortable calling etc. And anyway, I really did not have any reason to call – I was off doing my own thing. Plus when I call someone I have it down in my diary. It’s what feels good to me.

    He didn’t ask me about it today and I asked him in FMs coz I waited for his call.

    If he ‘misunderstood’ and waited for my call it would feel better if he brought it up. It feels bad when he pushes things under the carpet coz it feels inauthentic and I don’t like it.

    2) It doesn’t feel good to me to tell a guy when I’m free so he can see me. It’s just how my diary functions. It feels better for a guy to be direct if he wants to see me and I can work something out if I want to see him.

    There is no need for him to know what goes on in my diary. And for me to keep following him with ‘ok if not this date, can you do this date, or this other date….” eeek! And my diary fills up a week in advance. This is what feels good to me and I don’t want to be approached at the last minute.”

    Sorry but this is a train wreck. Men like information. What kind of relationship do you expect to have with a guy when you expect him to just call and see if you are available. You have you time planned out. Ever think…wait, no you don’t, you feel…OK, ever feel that maybe he likes to plan out his time also? Ever think…sorry…ever feel that it might be better to compare notes so that you two can work out times when you can get together?

    Sorry but I was reading through your post and I couldn’t help but THINK, if I were him, I wouldn’t even bother.

    You are all about you. You meant to make it difficult to arrange time, or you don’t want to talk if you have something planned. If I were him, too would THINK, well fine, call me when you are free. No man wants to call 10 times and be told not right now and then get lucky and call at the right time on the 11th time. It doesn’t FEEL good to us.

    We don’t THINK it’s asking to much to let us know when we can call. We don’t like being expected to be mind readers. It doesn’t FEEL good to us. We THINK it’s stupid to expect that of us.

    We aren’t an accessory to your life. We have a life of our own too. We expect give and take. You thinking he wants you to chase sounds more like he gets tired of giving and expects you to give once in a while too.

    If I were to call, and you were busy, I wouldn’t call back either. Call me, show me that you have some interest. It would make me FEEL good.



  438.  #439Daria on April 12, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Rusty – ouch that feels bad! :(. Just read the first paragraph. I don’t want to see queenbee being talked to in a way that feels bad 🙁

    I know you can talk in a way that makes progress And feels good.



  439.  #440Brenda on April 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    Meemee,

    Hi! I miss Honey, too! I think you are doing well to ask him for the full amount of money. I would like to see you do so more assertively. You are finding your voice, girl! 🙂 Here is a suggestion…

    “X, I need you to be fully responsible for the cost of the abortion. When can I expect the remainder of the money?”

    If he refuses, I would say something like, “I’d hate for your father to find out about all your indescretions. What do you think?”

    You wouldn’t have to actually do it. Just give him a hint that you could spill the beans (ie, TELL).



  440.  #441Brenda on April 12, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    Good night, Sirens!

    I’ve been super busy and I miss hanging out with you all!



  441.  #442Daria on April 12, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    I feel comfortable letting a man know when I’m free ahead of time… But definitely not chase him down with that info.

    I don’t want any guys to call me that don’t Want to call me and make effort.



  442.  #443Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    @437: Daria says:
    “…– I don’t believe in intellectual property rights…”

    I’ve heard people say this a lot or say things that work out to be the same thing. And then when it’s their product they suddenly change their minds… 😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  443.  #444Daria on April 12, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    I wish I knew how to get in touch with Honey so I can ask her about the lady/school that she mentioned work with her kids. I remember there was something available here in sf abd I want to look into working there.



  444.  #445Rusty on April 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    “Rusty – ouch that feels bad! 🙁 . Just read the first paragraph. I don’t want to see queenbee being talked to in a way that feels bad 🙁

    I know you can talk in a way that makes progress And feels good.”

    Normally I would agree, but sometimes with all of this feel good stuff, you get so wrapped up in your own feelings, you don’t take into account the other person’s feeling because you can’t feel their feelings. That appears to be what she is doing. I might be wrong, but man, she just seems very rude. Like a man is just supposed to read her mind and call when she wants him to call, mind you with not a single clue from her when that might be. Sorry but that’s freakin rude!



  445.  #446Daria on April 12, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    Slv – that’s cool but I wouldn’t change my mind. I think things through before I choose to believe them, if I’m aware I believe them.

    I would likely feel triggered though.

    Nonetheless I still don’t believe in intellectual property.

    Then again, I don’t really believe in Any property outside my energy body.

    I believe thieves are blessed this way… To see that the truth is no one Owns anything at all.

    Lalala



  446.  #447Senior Lady Vibe on April 12, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    @446: Daria says:

    “…I believe thieves are blessed this way…”

    Well, maybe unless/until they go to jail… 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  447.  #448Senior Lady Vibe on April 13, 2011 at 12:01 am

    EeeeK! It’s 3:00 a.m. I have to put my little body to bed!

    Good night everybody… Keep the party going until I return.
    😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  448.  #449Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Rusty – I can see how that would make you feel upset, if you’ve been in that situation.

    what stood out for me at the beginning is that she gave the man a time to call… He engaged himself to call… And then he didn’t!

    That would feel bad and I’d feel turned off.

    Her ‘guessing’ that he waited for her to call is indeed just guessing and projecting.

    I feel a lil confused as to what actually happened… I’m getting the impression she didn’t want to call him back offering info about her availability… After he dud not follow through on what he engaged to do – call.

    I Don’t think she’s saying she won’t in general let a man know when she’s free.

    I feel unsure but I reread a few times because I got confused at first too reading that she doesn’t want to let him know…



  449.  #450Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:05 am

    Blessed as in holy… Blessed with a sacred knowledge.

    I hate jail 🙁

    I feel super sad, outraged, so heavy about it’s existence and I want to transform all the punishment system to healing.



  450.  #451Brenda on April 13, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Daria,

    I’m still awake. You said, “I hate jail

    I feel super sad, outraged, so heavy about it’s existence and I want to transform all the punishment system to healing.” I love that about you. That is a passionate feeling of mine, too, largely what led me to correspond with inmates the past 22 years. The injustices there have no end.

    You may be interested to check out a prison transformation project called Prison Fellowship.



  451.  #452Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Brenda – thank you for sharing.



  452.  #453Rusty on April 13, 2011 at 12:20 am

    “what stood out for me at the beginning is that she gave the man a time to call… He engaged himself to call… And then he didn’t!”

    I can’t make a judgment on that without more info. But I can say that for a relationship to blossom, there has to be forgiveness. IMHO it’s one of the most important qualities in a relationship.

    And with so many restrictions, it doesn’t seem like a relationship. More like a business arrangement. FEELS icky.



  453.  #454Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:26 am

    I feel so Excited! It’s like I’m getting more and more self esteem from the time spent w sexy cd tonight.

    It’s awesome to feel Closer to him and still feel warm and open in a situation that in the past… I would’ve felt crushed humiliated and outraged in.

    What??? What a difference!

    Speaking up in the moment has helped ms hold my boundaries And walk away And not really feel mad!

    I felt mad cuz slice noticed I often feel patronized with him in the way he talks… But I don’t feel mad about our sexual exchange/conversation…

    I actually feel open and smoky like he’s gonna step up, Again. Like he stepped up to let me know he still wants to see me after I said no to his nofeelgood business proposition.

    And… Now he might step up again… He asked me for a hug at the end when I really wasn’t even thinking about being close to him… I felt surprised.

    I feel excited! Yay! I’m telling them no! And they’re attractive… And then they cone back! Ha!



  454.  #455Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:26 am

    This feels awesome! And I looked him in the eye and everything!



  455.  #456Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:32 am

    Rusty – i would forgive him too, if he apologized… But that doesn’t sound like its happened… Yet.

    I can feel really turned off by a man when I’m not treated well – and him not following thru seems to me like not treating me well. Then I feel scared and on guard and maybe insecure – I do deserve to be treated well, right?

    But then i can forgive him once he apologizes if I feel safe!

    I feel kinda weird hearing you say it feels icky… Truthfully i feel like I’m being made fun of for expressing my feelings… And I feel put off.

    I don’t want thus to Fuc’k up our open communication.



  456.  #457Daria on April 13, 2011 at 12:34 am

    Feeling sleepy.

    Brenda I feel reassured and supported that you said you live my jail notwantingness.



  457.  #458Lucy on April 13, 2011 at 12:52 am

    Hi Rusty. I’m loving your feeling messages. I FEEL giggly and smiley reading them. 🙂



  458.  #459Lucy on April 13, 2011 at 1:00 am

    I just had this weird experience. The fb friend who has the Pirates tix is a guy I’ve never met…Since Camile can’t use the tix I told him he could see if my fb friend TN man wants them and I said “Tell him Tink sent you” (which is what TN used to call me). So this guy says that he had a dream about Tinkerbell! I teasingly said, “Oh you dreamed about me?” This was all on his wall, but then he private msgd and said Yes, he had a dream about me – he was having tea with me and then someone called out “Tinkerb



  459.  #460Lucy on April 13, 2011 at 1:02 am

    bell and I turned and looked and smiled. Huh??? How could he have dreamed of me with that nickname without knowing about it before??? Weird!



  460.  #461Katarina Phang on April 13, 2011 at 1:12 am

    Lucy, what Rusty means is the ultimate special treatment for a woman is for her to refuse him sex and him still sticking around. Yep, not marriage or commitment necessarily ’cause marriage is “cheap” with easy divorce and all.

    It’s only true if I’m crazy about him, but then again if that’s the case I would want to jump his bone pretty immediately. :p

    So it’s a rather moot point for me personally. To have a guy crazy about me to want to do it isn’t really an issue, perhaps, but to be crazy about a guy who’s crazy about me is the whole thang that is not that easy to come by. And more than likely the guys I’m crazy about isn’t the sort who loves the idea of waiting to have sex till marriage -no judgment of that value per se, however. Like Lily says, I probably won’t be so attracted to guys like that (sounds like a pushover to me to be honest).

    Everyone is different. I’m very attracted to self-confident alpha male -the sexually aggressive ones. it might not be the best men to go after, but that’s how I’ve been so far. Can’t help it.



  461.  #462Lucy on April 13, 2011 at 1:53 am

    Kat, thanks for clarifying. My ex-h “stuck around” even without (complete) sex, but it didn’t feel like he was doing a super-special thing for me bc of it. It never even occurred to me that he might leave if I didn’t “put out” – it was never an issue… He was into me for me, wanted to marry me, and he knew he’d get plenty of that in due time.



  462.  #463Daria on April 13, 2011 at 2:01 am

    I want a squidworth!



  463.  #464Meemee on April 13, 2011 at 2:16 am

    I am back from Gym
    Having mango juice now.
    I did one and a half hours of work out.
    It was hard after 2 months’ break.
    But i did it slowly. after some time i started feeling relaxed.
    My gym manager asked me what was wrong and I look very tired and horrible. I told her i was and am having a tough time personally. she gave me some words of comfort. asked me to gym regularly and do some excercise even from home to relieve stress. and told me how she was having a tough personal life once and was completely addicted to sleeping pills. and she gave me this final statement: nothing, nothing in this world, no person in the world is so worthy that you can spoil your health and body for it.
    🙂 🙂
    Meemee



  464.  #465kaitlyn on April 13, 2011 at 2:55 am

    Rusty,

    I agree with you. And this is coming from me aka Miss If-A-Man-Doesn’t-Hunt-Me-Down-I-Guess-He’s-Not-Interested.