Be A Rori Raye Coach – Free Teleclasses Monday, December 15th

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rori glastonbury torAsk Me How RRRCT Can Help You Be A Professional, Successful Rori Raye Trained Relationship Coach…

If you’re considering enrolling in RRRCT – the Fundamentals for 2015, learning how to help women in their love lives exactly the way I do and get personally mentored by me as a professional coach – you likely have lots of questions about how it works.

And not just how RRRCT works – but how it will work for YOU!

And so I’ll do a Q & A teleclass on Monday, December 15th, TWICE! – at 11am and 5:30 PST – to answer your questions –

1. To listen in by phone or Skype:

Phone Number to Dial: (425) 440-5100
Backup Number: (323) 476-3997
Conf ID: 269386#

You can also try these Local & International Numbers:

2. Or go to this webpage to listen and write questions to me in real time:

If you’re not sure if you’re interested in being a professional coach, but would like to learn (or just listen in on) how RRRCT coach training and business mentoring work, I’d be happy to have you on the call.

If you’d like to just read about how RRRCT works, what it (and my teaching and mentoring) will do for you, and learn how you can be a practicing Rori Raye Relationship Coach – go here–>>

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1April Rose on December 12, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Hello Rori,

    I love this picture of you on Glastonbury Tor. I was there last week!

    I love your work. And, it has turned my life upside down.

    I can no longer have a relationship with a man who doesn’t love himself.

  2.  #2lovetodance on December 12, 2014 at 10:04 am

    ahhhhh april rose…..i feel good reading what you wrote to rori…

    and the clarity of what you cannot do….

    i feel the conscious process of loving oneself….is the key for myself…and to find a man who really has looked at this within…ahhhhhhh

  3.  #3prplpsn28 on December 12, 2014 at 7:20 pm


  4.  #4Femininewoman on December 12, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    Hope I can make it

  5.  #5Millie on December 13, 2014 at 1:53 am

    Ladies! Had some drama tonight…..
    So “Out of town” guy (this man I’ve been talking to over the phone quite extensively, who lives in another state) said he felt we had a deep connection and he just had to meet me. He planned to come visit me next month. I had been afraid of getting wrapped up in an imaginary relationship, as we were being romantic with each other. I felt such a connection with him, even though we’ve never met, so I was super excite he was making the trek halfway across the country to meet me! After that conversation, he contacted me every day, telling me how excited he was, that he had a gut feeling about this, that he missed me, that he was taking himself “off the market” since he felt such a connection to me, that he felt we had a “relationship” happening. I admit, I felt a bit overwhelmed by this and did lean back as I kept reminding myself “everything could change once you actually meet him.” I did not take myself off the market or overcommit to him in any way. Then, this week…I didn’t hear from him at all. Complete silence. That’s why I was posting about the ebbs and flows of relationships, I felt a change in the dynamic. I sensed something was off, especially because he hadn’t bought the ticket yet. Then tonight, a post pops up on my Facebook page of him commenting to someone else about how he’s sorry he couldn’t talk and had to leave, he is so smitten with this girl. Well, I knew he wasn’t referring to me since my phone had been quiet all week. I decided to just confront him about it, instead of wondering. So I texted him that I didn’t mean to pry, but this came up on my page and after hearing him say he took himself off the market and was coming out, I had to question if he was indeed smitten with someone else….
    Well….I was right. He apparently is “going through” something and this other girl was there and their friendship blossom into romance. IN A WEEK?!! Geez…. Well, he isn’t coming out needless to say and since “I’m not there…I’m not in real time.” Wow…it really hurt to read that because I had been feeling very cautious about that…about things not being real, and I had expressed that to him. But, him actually coming out was going to make it real. Well, apparently it wasn’t THAT real for him since he so quickly threw it all away. I feel deceived and confused because I did believe his words and affections to be true in that moment. However, he was clearly involved with someone else through this….and I feel his words are now empty. I don’t want to believe that…but the evidence points to that. I questioned him a little, but of course he told me that he’s been completely honest with me and was going to tell me about this other woman. I don’t buy it….I don’t understand how he could flip 180 degrees so quickly. But, I’m miles away and she’s there, she’s in front of him. Anyway, I ended the conversation with saying that I believe everyone should find love with whoever feels right to them, and that I can peacefully accept when it’s not right.

    I feel very mixed about this whole thing right now. I feel upset at myself for trusting him, but at the same time I want to trust people’s words, especially when their actions line up with that, which was happening, until this event. In my heart, now…I know he isn’t the one. And I feel good about confronting him and also knowing the truth now….instead of later. I opened up to him so much and did allow myself to be vulnerable and truthful, and for that experience I am really grateful. But I am also hurt. I’m going to miss our conversations and him visiting. I feel like I need to hold back now, I feel scared that men can turn on a dime like that. One day it’s black, the next white. I also feel free….free of the wondering. There was a lot of things about him that didn’t quite work on paper, his age, location, kids, religion…that I kept in the back of my mind while being open to the connection. But realistically, I would want a man with the same religious point of view as me, purely because it would help us get along and also I want to raise my kids with certain beliefs.But I set that aside, because I was curious, where would this path lead? I know it is crazy to have feelings for someone I’ve never met, but I think talking to someone…is a really great foundation, and one I’ve never really had. But, clearly it wasn’t that great because he chose someone in front of him, instead of taking the risk to see what is outside of where he is. Anyway, that’s his business and he did what was right for him, it made me feel cast aside and not real, like what we shared wasn’t real. Despite what everyone says about nothing is real until you meet face to face….how I felt while I was talking to him was real. How I felt in response to him, was real.

    I don’t know who mr. right is, I don’t even know what mr. right feels like…and that makes me think…I need to date more. I could never see it as a sport, as Victoria suggested…..but I need to inspire myself to really put myself out there more than I am.

  6.  #6Indigo on December 13, 2014 at 2:04 am


    I’m sorry you are hurting, disappointed, upset.

    Wasn’t this the same man who had previously been flirting with a friend of yours on Facebook in a similar manner? His actions did not line up with his words. He did not “choose” someone in front of him over you. He was never there, he was never yours to begin with. As much as it may feel real, it is completely imaginary until you meet in person. You cannot trust someone, you cannot know someone, you cannot connect with someone that you have never met.

    I can almost assure you this new woman did not suddenly spring up out of the ground in the last week. If I were you, I would really try to move past these feelings you are feeling and work up some compassion for this woman he is now involved with. He claims to be romantically involved with her yet is whispering sweet nothings to other women over the phone and making promises of visiting them? Not a man I would want within 10 km of me.

  7.  #7Victoria on December 13, 2014 at 2:30 am

    First of all, I am so sorry for your disappointment. I have not been in your shoes, but I have a dear friend who went through a similar ordeal, and I know how much it hurts. She met a foreigner from a neighboring country (which is kind equivalent to your out of state situation) and was very intensively talking with him oves Skype and phone for two months, and they decided to meet halfway, and she was excited and confused and then he poofed. It turned up then from his FB he has an ex-wife he reconnected with… What can you do. It is not real until you meet him, and then it is not real after the first date, and then sometimes it is not real even several years later.
    It seems to me, we need to try to take it lightly, because if we choose to take it seriously, the weight of it would just drive us down and drown us. I do not want this for myself.
    I am sending you hugs and love!

  8.  #8Andrea on December 13, 2014 at 6:04 am

    ooohhh Millie, I feel such understanding. I can give a little perspective from the woman who is present in his life right now: My ex was that man. He was intimately involved with me in the physical sense but he had many online relationships and flirtations going. All of them very personal. He had at least five women believing that he was working on building a relationship with them. They were in my state from two hours away all the way to a woman he was online relationshiping with in Mexico and one in Asia.
    When I found all the flirtations by hacking his computer (Yes, I was in an extremely toxic state, and this was right before I found the Rori sight) he told me he felt it was okay because he wasn’t having an affair with any of them.
    Ugh, it was the worst insecurity I have ever been through. Every once in a while I used to pop onto his facebook and saw that he was still up to his same old tricks.
    Now, thankfully I’m completely over him. But Oh how I tried to hold on to that relationship and oh how I tried to be enough for him in “real time”, and oh how I ached everytime he got a facebook notification or a text message. Ugh, it was the worst !!! Worst!!! Feeling in the world.
    I’m so thankful that you dodged that bullet. Now, when I get friend requests from men, I look at their location. If they are far away I delete. What’s the point? What’s wrong with them that they can’t connect with women who are close by?

    But, yes I feel your pain. And yes, you’ll need to grieve this experience just like a real relationship.

    Give yourself time and space to heal, love yourself completely, don’t blame yourself, your true wonderful, pure heart was just reaching out for love. That’s alright. It’s alright to hope. And it’s wonderful that the Universe has your greatest good intended, and that your soul has your highest love potential targeted. Your angels will never let you settle for less than that great love that you absolutely deserve.

  9.  #9Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 6:17 am

    Riffing for a bit:

    I feel tense and all clenched up and stiff
    I feel confused about “D” – I know I am over focusing on one man but I can’t seem to stop myself..

    As time has gone on I have felt more and more feelings for him, and he is occupying my thoughts most of the time. Usually when we are apart I feel relief and a sense of freedom. Now I am feeling scared of being “without him” and “alone”…

    What is happening to me?? I didn’t feel this intense before. It’s like I am being pulled down, and down, into a bottomless pit that I can’t get out of.

    This time last year when we first split up I felt relieved! I was almost without any feelings at all on the matter. Just a bit “meh” and matter of fact.

    Now I feel over whelmed, and drowning in my emotions…

    Over the last year we have been to-ing and fro-ing in an on again off again relationship. It followed a pattern. He would disappoint me and I would decide that this relationship wasn’t for me, and I would end it. He would ask to see me and then beg me to take him back. I would say “yes” and feel quite flattered that I had stirred something in him that brought out these feelings in him.

    Then after a while, and a pattern of this happening more and more frequently I decided that things were never going to change and I told him point blank that it was over.

    I held strong and we parted and went our separate way. Over time he would text me here and there which was fine. But then I agreed to see him again and again he seemed to think that we were back together. This has happened now quite a few times and it has seemed to have fallen into a friends with benefits situation. He has told me he wants more, but I have told him I cannot give him this.

    The scary thing is is that my feelings now seem to have really developed for him. I am experiencing intense yearning, and “desperately” wanting him to change.

    I know I can’t accept the relationship as it is but I don’t want to loose him. My friend told me that I shouldn’t lead him on but I MISS him terribly. He was my best friend.

    I have been ignoring his texts but it is killing me!!

    I guess I am angry at myself. If I had stuck to my guns and left him 10 months ago I would not feel so “involved” with him.

    More and more I notice myself over looking his faults and dropping my own standards just to accommodate him.

    I love him because we have a lovely chemistry and I feel a deep affection for him. I love his goofiness and clumsiness. But as with so many other siren stories on here he does NOT really step up…

    To cut a long story short the first time that I split up with him he then phoned me and asked me if he could take me away on a short break together. He even went as far as to say a specific date. I was over the moon (looking back then I was still quite naive to him) I thought ‘Wow, he really wants to woo and please me!’. But then a couple of days later, when he had found his way back into my life, he seemed to ‘forget’ about the weekend away he had promised. Instead he told me that a friend had asked him to help with some work abroad and “apparently” he needed the cash because he was being made redundant. Nothing really added up because he was one of the wealthiest men I knew.
    Anyway, it just clearly shone the light on the fact that I was NOT his priority and he wouldn’t stick to plans he had made with me.

    When I confronted him about all of this he just shrugged his shoulders and said he would be back in time to go away with me! I said but you get back on the Friday night and we are supposed to be going away that weekend. Maybe it’s me, but that just feels a bit like he’s trying to squeeze everything in, whereas I like to plan things and really look forward to them.

    Also, he then said to me that I hadn’t help plan the weekend either… hmmm…. MEN!!

    I dunno…. I must be doing something wrong here…. er…. I am just venting… sorry….

  10.  #10Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 6:30 am

    ….I could also go on with the endless ways in which he has disappointed me.

    Also, like with Andrea’s situation – I get these constant texts like, “hey girl, how are you? Just checking you’re okay? Please let me know I am just concerned about you. Don’t hate me for that!” – and if I don’t respond the texts persist and persist and then the phone calls and emails too.

    So, eventually I just give in and say “Hi, no worries, I am fine – hope you are good too.” And just leave it at that. But rather than that smoothing over the situation it just makes it worse. He’ll send me a string of texts or emails asking me to the theatre, cinema, etc.. etc..

    BUT what hurts is that I really, really want to see him and I am having to use ALL my strength to say “No” to him. In fact usually we get into some sort of heated discussion because I don’t have the courage to say “No” outright and somehow we manage to still end up meeting up.

    YET he still has a MASSIVE hold over me. I miss him every night and think about him all day, every day. In fact it feels like it is getting worse rather than better.

    AND yet through it all, I am still holding on to the “hope” that he will change. That he will become my knight in shining armour and I will feel all safe and protected in his arms… Er… these feelings just AREN’T leaving me… I am obsessing over him, thinking about him ALL the time.

    I know I SHOULD block his number, but I can’t bring myself to do this. I keep thinking I am handling this – but actually, writing all this down here, like this, I realise I am NOT handling this AT ALL…

    Hmmm… Wow… Writing ALL this down makes me feel ashamed and VERY judgemental of myself.

    I realise I am having an IMAGINARY relationship with him. I DON’T know how to stop this….

    Anyone who wants to comment please do! I won’t be offended… in fact I think hearing some home truths may help…

  11.  #11Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 6:36 am

    Still riffing:

    …AND the worst of it is, I STILL get a massive thrill when I HEAR from him! Grrr… I wish I didn’t care..

    …HE tells me how much he loves me, how much he cares about me. AND truthfully, this MAKES me feel soooo good. I feel so confused…

    I just want to run away and hide. I want to bury my head under the duvet…

    The few times that I DO speak to him and he asks me how I FEEL. Like Andrea, I freeze up, I shake, I can’t speak…. it is all soooo over whelming….


  12.  #12Andrea on December 13, 2014 at 6:38 am

    and me: I leaned too forward for my taste the other night when RRguy texted me and told me he was on his way to my town.
    I worked myself into a tizzy, hoping that he would put some effort into coming to see me.
    But he didn’t.
    He comes to my town to do a ten hour rest in between his train trips. He needs to get to the hotel and sleep. I know that. And he’s weary when he comes in.
    He texted, I texted back, He texted, I texted back, he texted… I finally texted, I much prefer talking rather than texting. He texted: “Sure.”

    And then that was it. I didn’t hear a peep out of him. I leaned forward: “I’m just working on my computer, you can call me anytime.”


    Two hours later I leaned forward again: “I feel very disappointed and a little confused. But goodnight. I do feel happy when I hear from you. I do feel a kind of joy when you check in. So thank you for that. Goodnight.”

    And then I tried to sleep. Restless, fitfull, tossing and turning, angry, hurt, disappointed in myself for having expectations that don’t add up to the effort that he’s showing me, disappointed in myself for leaning forward, for wanting more, for having nothing to base my expectations on.

    I did two things: first, I shut my phone off. I realized that my rest was interrupted because I kept listening for my phone to go off.. hoping that he would respond.
    Secondly, I did the exercise from the about closing my fists, trying to hold onto him, his shirt sleeves, my expectations… and then releasing my hands and opening up to any gifts I might receive from this interaction. It felt so free-ing and finally I could sleep.

    The next morning, he was calling, bright and early. Profusely apologizing. He told me that he conked out with the phone in his hand he was so tired. He conked out with the lights on, the tv on, his clothes on.. and he was so regretfull.

    He asked me to come to him and he would take me for breakfast. But I declined. I told him how I feel so joyful, so happy, so full when he reaches out to me, when we talk, when we are together. But that I need so much more than just a few moments when he’s in my town.

    He said he understands but can’t we just be friends. I told him, no. I’m way past the point of friendship feelings with him. But that my feelings for him were my responsibility and I can deal with them and one of the ways that I’m protecting myself is to continue to focus on me.

    He told me how he had wanted the night to go, how he fantasized kissing my cheek and holding me close, wrapped in a hug. How he just wanted to see me looking at him the way I do. And then we had another long wonderful phone conversation. Jeez….

    But when we said our goodbyes, he said, “Hey, you know… you can call me. When ever you want, when ever you think about me, you can call me, you know. I’m just throwing that out there. That would really make my day if I looked at my phone and it was you calling.”

    And it made me happy that he said that, but I know that I will never feel comfortable calling him unless I am in an established, committed, long term, secure relationship with him. So I didn’t respond at all to that. And once more, he was less than two miles away from me, but we just talked on the phone.

    I like him so much. I don’t like this situation. I want his personality, his body, his looks, his work ethic in a man… I just don’t want this situation.

    Except, having his distance is giving me lots of space, lots of time, lots of practice, to focus on myself in the bubble of knowing how much I like him, knowing there is someone out there that I connect with so completely, but learning to lean back, and learning to accept what is, and learning to quell my own expectations of a certain situation, just learning to be at peace, and allow the real love, the right man, AND the right situation to manifest.

    (then I think…. maybe this is the right situation for right now.) hmmmm…..

  13.  #13Andrea on December 13, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Oh Waterfall… did you read Rori’s
    This situation is so chapter 12 I believe.

    She writes about accepting the man as he is, realizing THIS is this man. This is who he is. What I got out of that chapter this second time around re-reading it, is…

    Can I accept him as he is? Well enough to allow him to simply be in my life? Be in my life in what ever capacity he can be? Not try to change him, not try to manipulate the situation, not try to make reality any different than it is. Just accept him in the moments that he is in my face, and leave it alone in and focus completely on me when he’s not in my face?

    I didn’t understand from your post, why you feel you need to resist him. You said he’s not stepping up, but does that just mean that you don’t see, if he stays the way he is, that you can have a future with him? Can you just live in the moments with him? And enjoy him the way he is, and allow, at the same time, the real love of your life to start to evolve into manifestation?

    I know I had to absolutely rid myself of some of the toxic people that I had allowed into my life. But some, I’ve been able to just let them come and let them go, and have some really fun times with them, but by the by… they just start to get boring because our path’s no longer mesh as I’m focusing more on myself and getting to the place that I really want to be at in my own life.

    Is he really a bad man? Or is he just not measuring up to your idea of a future big love? I’m feeling a gratefulness for this new connection in my life, for the intensity and for the practice. And re-reading the at the same time, just doing the exercises and noticing my feelings.

  14.  #14lovetodance on December 13, 2014 at 9:38 am


    I feel your strength and sadness as you talk about your online experience….

    it seems there are experiences out there in cyberspace to help us keep trusting our instincts and to give us a place to explore who we are and what we are wanting….

    i had a much less intense ‘practice’ with an online cd [out of state] who i told myself to be more trusting and open to as practice…all the time knowing in my being somethings many things were off….

    I allowed myself to fantasize being with this man….what he was presenting and how wonderful and incredible he thought i was….it was such good practice for me to even allow myself to go there….to imagine wanting that again with someone….even if it wasn’t ever going to be ….

    when i expressed the realities of some of our differences….just to bring it down to earth….all his sentiment for me ….all his loving ideals of what he wants and how it could be me…. .Gone….poofed….disappeared….

    i feel there are a population of men and maybe some women online who are having imaginary relationships and that is exactly enough for them….
    i knew this man was not the man for me….dating or anything wise….but i wanted it to play out…

    my take away…..practice is good…imagination is good…just stay honest and aware…i learned if and when i go back online…only communicate with men near by if i am really wanting to connect with someone…and that was one of the pearls for me…

    please know this is not about you did wrong…it is just part of learning and practicing and knowing ourselves, we are not in control or privvy to others deep motivations, we can only keep learning about ourselves and our deep deeper reasons, behaviors, needs……..

    hope i have made some sense here….i feel a good opportunity for me to express and clarify some of my own experience…

    big hug to you millie…and big hug to me….as we ride forth on our trusty lovely steeds!

  15.  #15Victoria on December 13, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Is it ok to riff in a positive way?
    Let me know if it is not but I need to tell you that I feel happy and in love and I am trying to contain myself and not call or write to him for the 50th time that I love him. I know after a great date he will lean back and take some space. Patience Victoria he will come back for more…

  16.  #16Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 11:59 am

    Andrea – 13 – Yes, I’ve tried being in the moment and just accepting him the way he is. But what I find is that he either drives me mad or I start to feel trapped and cannot CD with other men. So, it’s a bit of a catch 22.

    I would sincerely LOVE to be with him, but there are so many things that are deal breakers to me. We often spend time at mine which is fine. And he does do a lot. He’ll cook, help me out with stuff etc.. he’s really great in that way. BUT in the outside world, for example, if we go out for the day then we ONLY eat or drink when he is hungry, etc… He NEVER seems to particularly cares about my needs and also, it ALWAYS seems to be me who foots the bill.

    He never drinks tea or coffee, so we NEVER stop for that. He’s not interested in going to a pub or bar and I really like to just chill and people watch somewhere – that is often part of a day out for me. At least have a rest somewhere! He never wants to. He just wants to go all day without a break and then crash out when he gets home. It drives me up the wall.

    When we first started going out I LET him pay for everything, and in some way I WORRY that it has contaminated the situation. Because now he seems to look at me like I want him to pay for everything and that is part of the reason that he NEVER wants to do ANYTHING. It’s weird is all I know….

    I know that I DO have to accept him as he is. This is what is difficult. I am totally in love with him. He is affectionate, cuddly, loving, always gives me cuddles, massages etc. Makes me dinner, is always there for me – BUT I can’t seem to get around the other stuff.

    IT is also like he is being dead stubborn and just refusing to do things that make me happy. I dunno… I am completely confused…

    Also, we were seeing each other for over a year but it was more like we were just “seeing each other” as opposed to an official girlfriend and boyfriend. He NEVER attended any social events with me apart from one or two. And when he did he was often distant and aloof and I would just wish that he wasn’t there at all.

    To be honest as much as I love him I realise being with him was, in the end, making me miserable and in reality apart from cuddles and someone “being there for me” I wasn’t getting much at all. Oh, but we do, or should I say, did, have great sex.

    But without any stability that is all a bit meaningless to me.

    So, what do I do?? Do I hold on to his coat tails with the hope that he will change, or do I cut my loses and run in the opposite direction??

  17.  #17Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    Sorry Andrea – I am grateful for your question and I don’t mean to offload! Reading my last post back makes me sound like a mad woman! Lol, I realise ALL of this is going on inside myself and it scares me somewhat!

    I always think of myself as a really nice, calm and logical person, but then when I read my posts back half the time they don’t make much sense and I wonder if it’s the men, or me, who have the REAL problems?! I am beginning to think it’s me…

  18.  #18Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    Wow, riffing again..

    For the longest time I was terrified of “MEN” even the word men scared me. I probably wouldn’t have been able to write it even only a few years ago.

    It’s only just been in the last few years that I have been able to “talk” to a man without feeling incredibly judged and nervous of what they were thinking. Gosh, even thinking about it is taking me back to that dark, scary place. Yikes…

    I was so very shy and nervous and nervous of men, as a child, teenager and as an adult. I used to idolise women that could “flirt” with men and be really relaxed and playful in their company. I was NEVER like that, I was always intense and serious. I could barely look at a man.

    Wow, all these feelings are coming up for me.

    I wonder if it is linked to my relationship, or ex-relationship now. Right from the start I was scared of D because he was very much a big man, I had never even had a friendship, let alone dated anyone like him before. I idolised him. Put him on a pedestal, and be so happy that he would even “speak” to me. Lol, inside I still feel like that shy, scared and unworthy little girl now. Nothing has really changed.

    Always kept away from reality, always in my own little world. The trouble is, I am quite happy with that – maybe because it’s all that I know… I dunno… I feel confused…

    I know deep down I don’t feel good enough for D. He seems too much of a man for me, and I get palpations and nervous everytime I even THINK about him.. He is a real man, and he makes me swoon, and I feel so stupid and girlie and lovestruck when I think about him. Hmmm…. What is this fear? I will sit with it… I will love it… Hmmm…

  19.  #19Liquid Light on December 13, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    I had four dates this past week, all mediocre, some downright awful. I’ve got another date tonight. Little more optimistic about this one but now my expectations are so low, it doesn’t really matter how it goes. Oh well. We are doing something fun, going to a party at a house that overlooks the water, and it sounds like he’s got a lot of friends. Unlike some of the loner/hermits that I met last week so at least that’s a positive. Of course, I’m a bit of a loner/hermit too…hahaha!!! but that’s why its good for me to be with someone who is more social!

  20.  #20Andrea on December 13, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    Also, I think that the term.. “accept him for who he is” can be mis-interpreted.

    Accepting him for who he is does not mean that he gets to be a part of my life while he is who is. It just means that I accept the fact that this is the way the guy is. And I have to own the fact that I am allowing into my life. This guy, who he is right now, I am allowing him to be part of my life. The question is more about me than it is about him. Why is this what I want right now?

    I have to admit that I would not be able to put up with footing the bill.. Ever! Oh man that is one of my biggest deal breakers.

    But then again, I’ve put up with men who others have said… No way! That’s a deal breaker for me.

    : ) I bet you’ll get bored with this treatment soon enough. That’s no way for a goddess to get treated and there is better. There really is.

  21.  #21Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    Ahh Andrea – 20 – thanks for those kind words. I think they have helped a bit…

    I was starting to process all these feelings of guilt and abandonment, and all these feelings of “Why wasn’t he good enough for me?” And “Why am I sooo picky?!”…

    I started to think about his family and how I don’t really want to meet them. I just think I would feel intimidated by them and I don’t like the sound of that..

    Hmmm, in truth I just feel confused… There is this man who on some levels I feel so connected with and on other levels so far away from… pffff…. it is what it is I guess…

  22.  #22Liquid Light on December 13, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    I would love to feel those feelings of swoon around a man. I haven’t felt that way in a long time. Mostly I just feel ho-hum. hahaha!!! swoon, dizzy, butterflies would be great just to know that I’m still alive inside!!! hahaha!!!

  23.  #23Dominique on December 13, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Waterfall – All of your conflicting and seemingly disparate thoughts and feelings are so okay and so real. I can feel them in my own body, as I read your words, for they are so familiar to me, and as much as one can grow, blossom, and change, some of this remains albeit easier to deal with, and it’s wonderful. It’s part of who you are, part of what endears you to me and surely others. Have you read any of my pieces on the ultra-sensitive? I think they might help you gain perspective here, and they might give you some comfort and peace. Please let me know if you want to see them. I will look for them for you.

    Love to you.


  24.  #24Millie on December 13, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Indigo 6–
    Yes, it was the same man that was flirting with my friend years ago. When I told her what had happened, she said her impression of him is that he lives in a dream world and probably flirts with a ton of women online to serve his ego. That is an assumption….but it may not be far from the truth.

    Yes, I hear you…about not knowing someone until you really meet them. I think I will never put myself in this situation again. I do feel compassion for the other woman…as much as he paints himself to be an honest man, things are pointing otherwise. I am no longer open to any contact with him…and am considering to block him on Facebook. But, a part of me wants him to see what he missed out on…to see that I’m ok and moving on and successful. I know that is probably wrong to want that, but I know I will soar very high…and he will become very small.

    Victoria 7–
    Wow it is amazing how often this happens, and how I was naive to that. How my “gut” trusted him up until now. I even told my mother that, as she stood next to me looking unsettled at the prospect of this man coming here. She was against it from the start, primarily because of his age and place in life. But she is not trusting…and I could tell she was worried about me. I felt so confident in telling her everything would be alright, that I could tell this man anything and he would listen readily. How wrong I was….
    Yes, I must take this lightly and not let it drag me down. I allowed myself to sleep in today, be just a body with no feeling. I couldn’t go riding today because it’s raining here….which made me really sad, but it was nice to have that time to do nothing and morn. Now, I’ve given myself that time and feel a desire to charge forward. To go out tonight, to flirt, to laugh, to put all this behind me.
    Thank you for your hugs and love!

  25.  #25Millie on December 13, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Andrea 8—

    I can’t imagine how low you felt during that time with your ex. How anxious and on edge….I’m so glad to hear you are past that time and have become this beautiful,juicy woman, who is so rich in insight and feeling towards herself. What you said here, made me feel wrapped in a huge hug of warmth and comfort. It made me feel so good about the person that I am, and what I’ve done, regardless of the outcome:

    “Give yourself time and space to heal, love yourself completely, don’t blame yourself, your true wonderful, pure heart was just reaching out for love. That’s alright. It’s alright to hope. And it’s wonderful that the Universe has your greatest good intended, and that your soul has your highest love potential targeted. Your angels will never let you settle for less than that great love that you absolutely deserve.”

    Thank you for that 🙂

    LovetoDance 14–
    Thank you for sharing your online experience with me…It feels so good to know I am not alone and I completely agree with how great a practice it was to allow myself to “go there.” Hearing you say, when you expressed doubt, he poofed…makes me think that perhaps since I did not “take myself off the market” or give in to him completely that that affected his decision. I would never give up my options…as Rori said, until I have the right man at the right time in front of me. Yes, you made a lot of sense!! And happy to ride forth on my steed with all the women here.

  26.  #26Millie on December 13, 2014 at 1:57 pm


    I had a similar experience with my ex years ago. We had an off and on relationship, going from highs and lows, going from promises to falling through. I fought it and resisted only to cave in. As far as accepting who he is, yes that is a part of it. To stand back and accept a man exactly for who he is and what he is capable of giving is important. However, I think that exercise is there to also help us identify what we need in a relationship, and if we aren’t getting it, that’s where all those yucky, needy feelings start to jump in. The limbo would drive me crazy and I would feel the need to express my desire for consistency, my desire to be in a relationship and what that relationship feels like. I see commitment now, as a really huge thing. And if you are closing off your options and committing, then those two people have to commit to the relationship itself. In my opinion, there is better out there…you remind me of myself when I was addicted to a relationship. Freeing yourself of the addiction takes time and bravery, and only you can decide what is next for you.
    Much love XX

  27.  #27Waterfall on December 13, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Dominique -23 -yes, I have read your articles on the ultra-sensitive and I really related to them.

    But… and sorry, this is a BIG but purely from my perspective. I absolutely HATE the label “ultra-sensitive”. It triggers me somewhat, and I guess it takes me back to that time in my life when I literally thought that I would burst into tears if a boy even spoke to me, let alone anything else. So, please forgive me for being a little prickly around that phrase.

    It sort of reminds me of how I told D he was a bit Aspergers and he got really upset and defensive. I suppose the truth was it touched a nerve with him, just like being called “ultra-sensitive” touches a nerve with me.

    In my ADULT life I desperately try and hide this side of me. And when people point out, even in a nice way, that I am ultra-sensitive I want to run and hide.

    Basically, I see myself as me. Not sensitive, not over-sensitive, not anything really, just me. I know I shouldn’t be offended by the word and I guess it is ALL yummy stuff to work on.

    The truth of the matter is “how?” Lol, it all freaks me out really. I notice in life if people see you as “ultra-sensitive” it almost gives them the licence to walk all over you. For years I put up with this, I THOUGHT there was NO other way, because I was told I was “ultra-sensitive”.

    Maybe it is because I am British, but being sensitive is seen as such a “negative” thing. A bit like describing someone as a loner, autistic, lacking in social skills, self absorbed etc… All of these words have such negative connotations in our society.

    If a woman is seen as “sensitive” she is seen as overly delicate, unable to survive in the world without help, unable to look after herself, do things for herself because she is “too” sensitive to the world around her.

    I know Americans like to put labels on things, and it is happening more and more in the UK, but were are just a bit, let’s say, sensitive about it!

    I think it’s because us Brits like to use our words sparingly and only when we REALLY, REALLY have too. Like really are you “sensitive” or are you just feeling sensitive? If that makes sense! We have a bit of that stiff upper lip mentality to life. ie we all have bad days, you just have to pull your socks up and get on with it.

    Hehehe I generally agree with the British attitude of non-labelling. BUT I do see where you are coming from… I think it is also a trigger for me personally.

    Hope that makes sense!

  28.  #28Dominique on December 13, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    Waterfall – Yes you make perfect sense. And thank you for your openness and honesty here as well as your sensitivity to my possible reaction. This is compassion which only sensitivity would allow. A good thing.

    It’s perfectly okay to feel triggered by words, my words. We all have our own unique triggers, and this happens to be one of yours. I feel badly it triggers you, yet it’s also an opportunity for exploration.

    I too used to feel negative feelings around this word, for it has negative connotations here as well. I’m not sure what happened or when, but something shifted, and I now feel okay if not proud to know and embrace this is piece of me. It’s only a part of me, you, and many others – a complex, multi-faceted, rich whole which is all of us.

    And as someone like this, you also get to experience nuances and subtleties not everyone can. The good feeling stuff can feel more profound and intense. Like sex and love. This is also some really good stuff.

    Love to you.


  29.  #29Liquid Light on December 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    I have a lot of men who really want to spend time with me in my life right now. I just got back from a hike with one of them. Its really touching. I guess I should appreciate it more even if they aren’t my forever man, it is kinda sweet.

  30.  #30Mandy on December 13, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    Dominique and Waterfall, and the rest of the beautiful Sirens…

    I ought to look at the ultra-sensitive articles. I deal with that a lot. Also, my guy is very smart, also a little bit mischievous, so if I do something that is “leaning back”, I notice he literally does the same thing. It’s like monkey see monkey do, so it actually really grinds my gears when he realizes two can play at the leaning back game. I’m sitting here going omg, power-play…but then when I think of his humanness, I think aw, does that mean he wants my attention? 🙂 That makes me want to hug him. but I wonder if he’s trying to punish me for making him jealous, which isn’t my intention, it’s just I have male friends I talk to.

    Anyone go through that too? Anyone have a man who will see you CDing and decide he can too, or when you decide you don’t have time to spend with him, he decides he doesn’t have time to spend with you next time something comes up? Ever dealt with that?

    It’s like playing chess this way, like, check, check, check… and I’m finding myself really needing to just decide to not pay attention to it and focus on what is going for me. Easier said than done for sure but ya, I figure if I just go with that Siren flow as best as possible, it will just melt away and I’ll eventually out-girl him, lol.

    One thing I’ve noticed when we go to our monthly outing to the industrial music club night at a bar we really like and who we see around a dozen of our friends at and also new hot interesting people, is if I talk to a male friend, he will pick a female friend and go talk to her. Sometimes I wonder why he does this and sometimes I’m flat out bugged about it because I don’t know what it’s about (I’m addicted to solving mysteries.) If anyone can help with telling me what this behavior is about I’d really appreciate it. He does admit he feels jealous at times. My radar is picking up toxicity…like “If you do this, I’ll do that, maybe as a punishment.”

    Also another thing has me puzzled and feeling some anxiety.
    We will be at the club as I said, and we haven’t been out in a VERY attractive crowd of people who are artistic and sensitive/intelligent like us until now, so it is a new situation, sexual energy is flying everywhere, he and I both see people we like to look at and are attracted to, and they flirt with us, but not when he and I are standing together, usually they wait until J takes a smoke break and then approach me without him, or wait until I go to the bathroom, and approach J. I don’t get why they won’t talk to us when we are together. I hope I don’t have a “resting bitch face” that is scaring them off…I’d like to know why they feel they have to wait until one of us is gone to talk to the other. I hate it when I see a girl flirting with J and not even acknowledging my presence.

    Which brings me to the next subject which is fun as hell, J and I are experimenting circular dating TOGETHER as a couple, and he helps me practice talking to women which is VERY hot and romantic and intimate to me, it can either go very well, or end up being very anxious and frightful, but I find I can choose to TURN the anxiety/fright into EXCITEMENT, and it gets him randy and me too, so we have found the key to our sex lives…we’re just two people who suffer from sexual anorexia (meaning we both have extreme anxiety about allowing either of ourselves to have any sexual pleasure or stimulation) who need to allow themselves stimulation and when we allow it together, it’s like magic…I can feel him open up and being turned on when he sees me get a lap dance, or when I pick one for him, and he enjoys it, it is so much fun, and he treats me right afterwards! He was cool with me to also find my favorite Female CD, who’s as cute as a button, and a sex educator and therapist, very cool!
    (I even turned her onto Rori Raye, because she’s fascinated with it and can afford the programs!!!)

    So although J has a hurt back and is very tired from working and we are strapped for money, I still know that I’ve dug deep enough to figure out some things that work and it is deeply psychological…but once I know what is going on, it is fascinating to me how we work together, and I feel passionate that we are a very special couple who love each other very much.

  31.  #31Emerson on December 13, 2014 at 9:21 pm

    Mandy, about the tit – for – tat…like you lean back, he does the same thing…
    You CD, he does it too…
    You cancel, he cancels the next time round…
    Yes I have experienced this, and I find it tiresome.
    I don’t know your man so I’m not judging.
    It’s something I find triggering and frustrating to deal with, personally.
    Thanks for bringing it up, it helps me to sort things out.

  32.  #32Emerson on December 13, 2014 at 9:23 pm

    As a matter of fact, ToxicEX was like that. Not assuming your man is toxic, Mandy.
    Just realizing why it feels triggering…
    ToxicEX would have to be “even steven” all the time…
    It was almost like he was competing with me and/or teaching me a lesson.
    It was exasperating and I felt unsafe, emotionally.

  33.  #33Emerson on December 13, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    Ah sirens, it’s so hard for me to CD when I go to church services alone…does anyone else experience this feeling? I love to go to the service, but I feel lonely, and sometimes self conscious and like I need to ‘explain’ my solitude…no kids or husband, at “my age”….
    I wish it were not so, and I need to let go of this, please how do I do that!?

  34.  #34Indigo on December 13, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    Waterfall 27,

    I have read up about the trait of high (or ultra) sensitivity, as it interests me, as I am extremely sensitive myself.

    The truth is, all species have a portion of their population (they reckon it is 10 – 15%) who are ultra sensitive. Sensitivity goes far beyond being fragile or crying at the drop of a hat. Ultra sensitive beings are extremely attuned to their environments and stimuli, and they notice masses of things that non-sensitives do not. This makes them more thorough and careful decision makers, they are able to provide so much more information and a much deeper perspective because of the way their sensitive nervous systems respond to and notice stimuli. Ultra sensitives in all species “fill in the gaps” of missing information for non-sensitives, and thus provide a vital role. For example, the most sensitive member of a heard of horses may be the first to notice and sense a predator, and thus warn the rest of the herd.

    In human beings, ultra sensitives are often counselors, teachers and skilled advisers. Being sensitive is a challenge and you have to learn to take extra care of yourself because you get frazzled more easily. This is simply the price of our insights and deep feeling. But it is a great gift if you pay attention to it. All species need ultra sensitives, and when I’m tempted to think of myself as being “too” something, or weird or whatever, I remind myself of all the things I have to offer the world and others because I am sensitive.

  35.  #35Sophie on December 13, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    27 – I absolutely hear your trigger around the word ‘ultra sensitive’ Waterfall but I’m British and that hasn’t been my experience. I feel very loved and protected for my sensitivity. In my world,my sensitivity has never been perceived as a weakness. I am a strong woman with a sensitive nature. I will feel things very deeply and am affected by things very deeply but I think part of that has been why others are drawn to me – I am able to offer a safe space, and a space of understanding and compassion where others seem to open up to me. It felt liberating for me when I read the research and realised that there were actual differences between highly sensitive people (and others – as Indigo says – there is a certain ratio). It helped me to embrace the aspects of myself that I hadn’t been able to understand before and love myself for them.It also helped me to be much more protective of myself as I was able to really identify what I need being a highly sensitive person. I stopped beating myself up for being easily overwhelmed and understood why. I made allowances for myself. I listen to and honour my need for alone time, time without stimulation etc I agree we are who we are and we work with that. I stopped judging myself by everyone elses standards cos I genuinely do have different needs. Rather than me experiencing a labelling of myself, the HSP research helped me to understand who I am and really helped me on my journey towards learning how to treat myself with the love, gentleness and compassion I need (from myself and from the world). It’s not for everyone, I don’t want you to feel in anyway that I didn’t hear what you wrote Waterfall, or identify with your feelings, or that I’m trying to impose an idea or anything on you. I just felt compelled to share my experience. xxx

  36.  #36Sophie on December 13, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    Maybe I felt compelled to share about the sensitivity thing cos it’s in my energy right now. I’m in a major city in Cambodia and I feel overwhelmed by cities at the best of times, and right now, I didn’t sleep well so feel really tired. I feel agitated and like criticizing myself for not being like ‘everyone else’. I’m in my room! I haven’t really explored – I know I feel too vulnerable and tired to put myself out there. But my brain wants to tell me all these negative things about how I should be making the most of my time, how I’m not very adventurous, how I’m boring – all this stuff – but I know I feel tooo tired, and yes, too sensitive to deal with a city right now! So I’m in my room, trying to self-soothe, telling myself everything is okay, being gentle.

  37.  #37Victoria on December 14, 2014 at 12:10 am

    Dear Indigo,
    I wish you a very happy birthday!
    I wish you for the new year of your life health, joy, and good luck! And I wish you a new love, sweet and effortless, and fully satisfying in every posdible way!

  38.  #38Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Ahhhhh yes! happy birthday Indigo! Hope you have the loveliest of days xx

  39.  #39Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 12:30 am

    Victoria & Sophie,

    Thank you so much for your sweet birthday messages 🙂 They made me feel warm and special.


  40.  #40Millie on December 14, 2014 at 1:01 am

    Happy birthday Indigo!!!!! You are amazing!
    How is your job going?

  41.  #41Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 1:24 am

    Thank you Millie 🙂

    The job is much better, ever since I had a talk with my boss and reduced my working hours, though it still has it’s trying days occasionally. I am on holiday for a month now though, so how nice is that!

  42.  #42Victoria on December 14, 2014 at 1:43 am

    A bit of a riff touching on something Mandy said about feeling in a game with her man.
    I sometimes feel the same, I need to outgirl him and it is annoying.
    But also, I realize that this is a confirmation that manipulation does not work, we can not control his behavior and our only choice is to act authentic and not care about the outcome.

  43.  #43Victoria on December 14, 2014 at 1:54 am

    The other thing I want to share is that F. told me yesterday that he does not like my masculine energy. Not using these words of coursre. He said that I have a quality, somethinh like persistence, that he is sure serves me perfectly in my job and he is sure that there I am absolutely the best. ( No kidding Einstein, you have noticed that I make more than double your income!). But he said that between me and him, when I insist that things work my way always, he does not like it. I was furious inside, but navigated away from this topic… I wanted to tell him sure I would wear a skirt if you would wear the pants. How about you learn to come on time and always keep your promises? Of course I said none of it. And I know he is right, and I love him with all my heart, but above him I love me, and I am fully wonderful as I am

  44.  #44Emerson on December 14, 2014 at 5:50 am


  45.  #45Mandy on December 14, 2014 at 6:44 am

    Victoria and Emerson…thanks for weighing in, I thought I was the only one! I think it’s almost a punishment for making him feel a certain way when I don’t even mean to, and maybe he doesn’t even notice he’s doing it…

    I wonder if Rori has some techniques to work around the “tit for tat” behavior, because it’s childish and annoying to me and really a turn off. I can handle it, it’s just like, hey, knock it off, I’m the gorgeous Siren here! 😛

    I guess just not making what he does my business, even if it is “monkey see monkey do” is the first thing I think of.

  46.  #46lovetodance on December 14, 2014 at 6:57 am


    i feel good that you are honoring and taking care of

    it feels to me that the ‘best adventure’ we can take…. is the one that truely trusts and acknowledges where we are…..

    i am always refreshed when i allow myself that

    i wish you continued happy travels!

    and thank you for your input on the higly sensitiv….i so resonate with how you expressed that….

  47.  #47lovetodance on December 14, 2014 at 7:01 am

    such a big happy birthday to you indigo!

    i feel appreciation for the sensitivity, thoughtfullness and compassion you bring to us and the world beautiful siren…..

  48.  #48Emerson on December 14, 2014 at 7:22 am

    Thinking about our dialogue, I realize that ExoticCD is this way too, everything has to be fair and even Steven. He keeps track of how many times he drives to meet me and the snarls about it. Which is why I’m no longer talking to him.

  49.  #49Andrea on December 14, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Victoria, I’m so cracking up here. I used to think the same way about my ex. I’ll stop making the plans and wearing the pants if you would take off your skirt.

    I once told him: Man, If I wanted to date another woman I’d be a lesbian.

    Oh my gosh he would get so mad at me. Now I see that I was really untrusting and insecure with him. I never allowed him to take care of me because I was so used to being the only one able to care for me.

    Glad I’m not with him anymore, but oh man I made sooooo many mistakes.

  50.  #50Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 8:13 am


    Thank you so much for your beautiful birthday wish 🙂

  51.  #51Victoria on December 14, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Yes I am insecure and untrusting too. I have not forgiven him for the times he disapointed me especially for the ones when he did not apologize but even when he has apologized I see he apologozes because he wants to make up not because he thinks he was wrong. How do I know? Because he keeps repeating it.
    At the same time he does some things which are lovely and make me feel loved and adored. He has stepped up a tiny bit after my lean back and I know this is the way to go. I am learning myself how to be with him and how to grow. And I really love him, faults and all,

  52.  #52Azure Blu on December 14, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Indigo… lovely Birthday Girl!!!
    I’m wishing you a path, for your new year, filled with self love, learning, fun and joy!!
    You have pulled back a new layer and are experiencing AMAZING things for YOU
    I am enjoying reading about it…
    hugggssss and kisses!

  53.  #53Emerson on December 14, 2014 at 9:19 am

    49 Andrea you bring up an interesting point, and so well stated.
    I feel the same way, having been independent for so long as a single woman with a professional career, I feel unsure about entrusting myself to a man to take care of me…even in small ways….and it seems to feel challenging to really step into the feminine role full force….
    baby steps I suppose is the the best way for me to approach this…
    I feel this strong need to be independent…so I need to find feminine ways to incorporate into myself to soften the boy energy that has served me so well…

  54.  #54Azure Blu on December 14, 2014 at 9:40 am

    AHHHHH… lovely Sirens,,,
    So many amazing stories you are sharing…
    I am reading them
    and learn sooo much from all of you
    being So Authentic
    And vulnerable…

    Liquid Light…
    I love how you are cding with many men…
    being playful and practicing
    and being grateful for all
    the positive (only allowing positive) attention

    Natalina is my Rori coach and has been
    an Amazing spirit that has propelled me forward in my life
    I have been on Plenty of Fish for 4 weeks now…
    It has taken a bit of time
    to recover from wanting to date only Spirit
    and feeling overwhelmed with
    the number of contacts I get everyday…

    Time to learn
    which ones i need to delete (no photos, too old, too young… not much in common…too far away etc)
    message back the ones that look (yes, looks are important to me)
    and sound like someone i’d like to have a conversation with (I like to talk on the phone before meeting)
    talking on the phone is one more filter i use to decide whether I want to meet in person or not…

    I’ve slowly worked up to 4 in my dating rotation…Messaging 12 more online
    and Now it is feeling fun!!! and through all this Practice
    I am finding out MORE and MORE about ME!!!

    of course I have said no to one who wouldn’t come into my town…
    No to one who had 3 children still at home (I’m 63 and don’t want to raise anymore children)
    both of which I felt pangs of “Maybe He is the one.. I just need to be more easy going…”
    But kept reading this Blog and
    hearing all you lovely Sirens share your
    Leaning Back and focusing on Your Happiness and Loveing YOU!!!
    Gave me strength to realize,
    I CHOOSE to be single
    I meet a man
    where loving and sharing
    is EASY
    NOT work…
    I Love my life
    I am excited about meeting the man
    Happy Sunday Sirens!

  55.  #55Azure Blu on December 14, 2014 at 9:49 am

    Me, like Liquid Light,
    am now able to enjoying the attention
    of many men,,,
    I have pulled back many layers
    and realize…
    I am a juicy, beautiful, loving Siren
    and deserve alllllll
    this Masculine Attention!
    Before, i thought I was unworthy, and would get prickly and grumpy…
    and so not very soft on the outside…
    it did certainly work to keep the men from getting too close. :-))
    Thank you Rori and Natalina!!
    and ME!!!

  56.  #56Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Azure Blu,

    I was just thinking today that I missed you here on the blog! It is good to see you back.

    Thank you for the birthday wishes, and for the support for my journey. It’s been an amazing year, full of self-discovery and learning, and it continues.

    Love to you x

  57.  #57Liquid Light on December 14, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Happy Birthday Indigo!!! Hope you are having an awesome day!

  58.  #58Liquid Light on December 14, 2014 at 10:56 am

    I had the craziest date last night! It was our first meeting and what a first meeting it was! First I met him at a bar and met 5 of his friends there, all nice though one was really drunk. Oh well, it is the holidays after all. Then we all drove to his friend’s house who lives up on the hill (4 of us packed into the backseat) and watched the xmas parade and fireworks from the balcony. Then he and I left and walked downtown and ran into more of his friends and had a drink. He knows everyone. When we left we ran into more friends on the pier and they took us on a boat ride over to another cute bar on the other side of the water. It was so crazy and fun! I can’t believe how many people, all his friends and all really nice, that I met in one night! He seems like a really nice guy with a huge big heart!

  59.  #59Azure Blu on December 14, 2014 at 11:47 am

    thank you for the welcome!!

  60.  #60Azure Blu on December 14, 2014 at 11:48 am

    LL #58
    You are sounding so light and carefree
    It becomes you…
    Sounds like such a fun date!

  61.  #61Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Thank you Liquid Light 🙂

  62.  #62CurvySiren10 on December 14, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    Indigo~~ I’m probably late, but wanted to send you lots of love and happy birthday wishes!! xo

  63.  #63Mistea1 on December 14, 2014 at 3:13 pm


    Happy Birthday to you. You deserve the best of days.

  64.  #64April Rose on December 14, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Liquid Light

    ‘big heart’

    That has to be one of my main requirements.

  65.  #65April Rose on December 14, 2014 at 3:20 pm


    Happy Birthday dear dear lady.

    Many many hugs, and wishes for the depth of love your soul desires….

  66.  #66April Rose on December 14, 2014 at 3:22 pm


    I hear you. ‘Playing chess’, as in having a man respond in kind to your every move. Boy that feels stressful.

    I had a situation like this. I drove myself nuts thinking I had to behave impeccably in order to avoid his weird and yukky-feeling responses.

  67.  #67April Rose on December 14, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    I realised in my zealousness to implement Rori’s ‘formula’, I forgot to be caring.

    I was obsessed with having my partner ‘be the man’. I was rigid about it, and created expectations in myself that he couldn’t or wouldn’t fulfil. I don’t blame him. I wouldn’t want someone working a formula on me.

    I am meeting men who are naturally masculine-acting, and it just feels splendid spending time in their company. I get to be the alluring feminine they want to take care of.

  68.  #68April Rose on December 14, 2014 at 3:35 pm


    “… manipulation does not work, we can not control his behavior and our only choice is to act authentic and not care about the outcome.”

    So true.
    And so difficult for me at times.
    And, when the outcome could be that he doesn’t want to see me again… that hurts…. I can’t not care about it. I can begin to accept it, while the whole time my insides are crying out in desperate agony…

    this too passes… peace comes. One day, when my body and life force heals enough to know what my rational thinking knows… that he is not the right man for me at this time. When my body is at peace with that, and When my body looks at emotionally healthy men and feels turned on.

    Mmm. Yes. Yes, please. More of that please Universe. It feels yummy warm fantastic warm pillow smiley hot milky coffee safe sweet and sexy.

  69.  #69RileyTheOwl on December 14, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Ohhh… I feel so understood and safe with my feelings!!!
    Like safe expressing my feelings to C… He just helped me feel so understood, I feel full of light and like I can float from the light happiness of my safe feelings.

    Lately I had been feeling a little distant from C, as we haven’t been seeing each other very much.
    He’s often been texting me and asking to see me on the day of his text, which really doesn’t work with me! I know we’ve talked about this on the blog before, how even if we don’t have “plans”, we already have decided and felt through how we want to spend our day… petting the cat, walk down to the beach, have a bath, do some work at home, etc. and when he asks to see me the day of, although I’m not busy, our meeting will feel fleeting and not so special to me. Afterwards I’ve noticed I feel like my day was taken away from, as though I’m giving in to seeing him without a nice date or something more official feeling being set. And that’s not very okay with me, I’d rather live my day out fulfilled with all my fun activities, like sketching and making my herb tinctures and going downtown to the health food store and then experiencing my daily meditation at the beach… and look forward to our plans which are set in advance!

    For the last three days, he has texted me on each day asking to see me that day. Hahah 🙂 I feel pursued, I feel good, I feel important. While on Friday and Saturday I actually was busy, today… today I’m relaxing… and I just really felt like although I do miss him and feel a bit disconnected with our lack of physically being with each other, I still am wanting this day to myself… I don’t want to change my plans and my relaxation which I’ve been looking forward to…and he sent me this over text:
    “Do you think I could see you today? 🙂 even if it’s just to say hi.”
    ohh I feel so glad he wants to see me, he’s constantly been asking, hehe I feel giggly sitting in my cozy chair in the sunlight at home basking in the sunlight like a cat, I’m smiling and feel like a goddess and I say: “Ohh C… thank you so much for asking me, I miss you and it would feel great to see you 🙂 the thing is, I feel a little bit weird with this.”
    Saying this feels scary, I feel a bit of nervousness and scared he will react badly, or maybe be hurt by my words. I feel curious how he will respond, I feel uncertain… he says this: “Oh :/ why do you feel weird?”

    Mmm he’s asking me… opening up this space for me to express myself, wanting to understand me!
    I sink into my big soft chair, its cushions… the most amazing thing is the smell of the pine tree, christmas tree, its pine scent is wonderful and it feels so comforting

    I respond with this: Just, ohhh hahah I just have a funny way of how even when I don’t have any plans, I already have in mind what I’m, doing in a day… 🙂 so making plans the day of doesn’t really feel good with me… but I so appreciate that you asked, and I really would love to see you soon, I miss feeling your arms around me”

    Woah, that felt a little scary and also really freeing. I feel free and authentic and like I am so respecting myself and what I want. He responds like this: “Oh sweetie 🙂 that’s perfectly find 🙂 I’ll be sure to remember that 🙂 would you like to see each other tomorrow instead? I miss you too sweetie <3"

    Ohhh that feels so sososo good, I'm understood, I feel understood and heard. I feel safe. I relax into my chair further and smell the pine needles… mmmm I'm so happy 🙂

  70.  #70RileyTheOwl on December 14, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Alsoo I’m wanting to change my name on the blog. I’m changing it to Woodland Sprite, just because… names are fun hahah 🙂

  71.  #71Woodland Sprite on December 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    There, name has been changed 🙂 ( was formerly RileyTheOwl)

  72.  #72Mistea1 on December 14, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    Wow, your comments almost perfectly mirror my experience with MusicTd. The whole thing almost makes me wish it never happened except that I have learned many valuable things about myself.

    I think some have mentioned this about being punished for loving or expressing affection.
    I’m on POF now and read there about manipulative actions as a quest by the manipulator to have dominance in the relationship. (such as it is.)

    Friday I attended a reception where he was. He made sure that I saw that he was ignoring me. I was talking with another woman, he stood in front of me looked at the other woman and greeted her, then shifted his eyes down and from one side to the other then moved on. She of course paid him no attention because he hadn’t caught her eye. Geez!

    I had a dream about MusicTd that had us going up as so much dust in the air. So I decided if this was indeed nothing then my feeling toward him and action should be ‘nothing’. I went to the last exhibit and studied my program. He was standing next to me at the wine table. I could hear him break off in mid sentence and turn toward me, I did not look up and left shortly after.

    Well, Sunday came and there he was ‘Mr. chatty kathy’. The first 2 times we crossed paths I just kind of grunted a greeting if he actually vocalized one. It’s the unattractive opposite to Rori’s gutteral appreciation.

    He was up in the loft when we started our before service practice. How annoying for me when I got so distracted ‘again’ I flubbed up the practice so the director had to redo my parts twice. So much for ‘nothing’.

    I decided to stay up in the loft for the service and discovered I could hear much better. I knew MusicTd was going to play up there and decided to turn my head to the side and close my eyes and just listen. I pretended it was like when I first heard him play and didn’t who he was yet. I could hear him fussing about and figured it was a ploy to get me to open my eyes but I didn’t.

    The last piece was so beautifuI. I kept my eyes closed afterwards to enjoy the feeling. He finally spoke to me and I startled out of my reverie and kind of grunted an acknowledgement of his presence.

    I know I was rude but I don’t like being manipulated like that. There is talk on here about accepting what is. I accept he is immature irrevocably (thanks Azure Blu), but I don’t have to put up with that.

    Then the 5th contact was him putting a hand on my shoulder and making a comment. I rather rudely said, “I don’t know” and cut off any thing else.

    At first I felt very annoyed, angry. Then I thought what else could this situation be like? We don’t have to worry about procreation. One of the things I have gotten out of this is a return of my zest for life and I know he has as well. So whats wrong about playing this little game of seek and find, push and pull?

    Also I have gotten my next set of lessons to be worked on. Ego, Developing loving kindness to all beings not just when it serves my purpose, the thrill of the hunt and the capture of a high status man and my enhancement of my social status if this happens, ego again. There’s nothing wrong with high status but to have that as the object rather than the best interests of the man in question is not good for me. If I don’t get what I want from him then I feel the right to retaliate, (violence) that’s another biggie for me. My being is love or should be. As I wrote before, the guy is a hard taskmaster and takes no quarter from me on these issues. This is on the inner level.

    I’m committed to staying here and so is he, because the other people are so nice, and this place is so beautiful. The music is the best. The guy plays like a god.

    Then I have the POF person who is breaking his neck looking for the perfect lunch spot for our first get acquainted date next week. We’ve emailed for a little over a week. He is local and his emails make sense for our location so I am comfortable doing this.

    Hope everyone has a wonder holiday season and you all get the present you want the most.

  73.  #73Labbit on December 14, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    So much goodness to catch up on this thread! Indigo wishing you a Happy Birthday weekend, belatedly. 🙂

  74.  #74Turquoise on December 14, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Happy birthday Indigo 🙂 I hope you enjoy days and days of celebrating!

  75.  #75Turquoise on December 14, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    It feels like Pianoman is stepping up… Last weekend he and his daughter came to my daughters play with us. Last night we went out to a club to meet my sister… She’s the first family member he has met. We have plans Friday for my birthday and Saturday to go to a party.. Not sure yet about Christmas or New Years, I’m just taking this one day at a time. We talked about how February will be a year since we met and he said it seems longer… I feel like the year just flew by. I want to let go and just be, but I am holding back some. It’s just seemed like when things started to get more serious in the past, he would take a couple steps back. This is the most time we have ever spent together. He seems to be trying to step up in other ways too… Wanting to give some input with my kids, offering to do lots of home projects for me… I guess I’m just being cautious. I’m not dating anyone else. I do have men that I talk to, friends, an old flame from many years ago, but he’s married now. It’s kinda nice having someone else to chat with here and there, but I’m not interested in dating anyone else right now. I’ve CD’d a lot in the past, I get the point. Just not interested in trying to juggle multiple men right now. I work 2 jobs, am in a single parent Facebook group, have a big family and friends I see regularly. Plus my amazing daughters, life is full. So, Pianoman is the only man in my life right now. Did I mention he is a good kisser? So affectionate. Definitely all male, strong… Sweet, humble, generous and kind. I like him a lot. Just not sure what he wants.

  76.  #76Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    Thank you lovetodance – As Waterfall says we can’t be anyone other than who we are so, ‘yes’ as you say, honouring and living in alignment with that as best as possible creates less inner conflict (eventually…work in progress :)) After resting in my room, I met a lovely solo female traveller and we went out and explored the night markets and it felt great – I needed those re-newed energies and I felt very grateful not to have to go alone. It felt much more manageable with a companion.

    Azure Blu – so lovely to hear your voice and to know that you are feeling excited with your new POF success annnnndddd practicing choosing exactly what YOU want – I agree with you, the inspiration from the other women here is quite profound…such good examples of how we keep moving forward and don’t settle for less than the best

    I just want to say that I’ve been listening to all your struggles but sometimes don’t know what to say and then you all do so well at supporting each other I don’t say. And mostly, I feel sorrow when a siren is struggling, or has experienced painful things, but then you all do so wonderfully at excepting them as lessons for growth that sharing the sorrow doesn’t seem helpful. Nonetheless, Millie – I felt so sad for you experiencing that behaviour with your CD, and Indigo, the lessons that D is bringing to you, and April Rose, Waterfall …I feel sadness for the pain and discomfort but admiration for your courage and dedication to your own self love and growth.

    And everyone else I love hearing all your voices and contributions and self reflections.

  77.  #77Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    April Rose “I am meeting men who are naturally masculine-acting, and it just feels splendid spending time in their company. I get to be the alluring feminine they want to take care of”

    I feel smiley reading this – yay!

  78.  #78Mistea1 on December 14, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    Azure Blu, good to see you on the site again.
    I’ve started at POF too and have a lunch date next week. Then I have a new contact which will hopefully expand into a lunch date. Need one more.

    But I still want MusicTd!! Aargh, after all the hassle. My daughter says I’m rude to him. I am a mess interiorly.

  79.  #79Mandy on December 14, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    April Rose and Sirens…

    Sometimes it is even down to the food I’m eating, if I eat anything in front of him, it’s “Why didn’t you get me something from the kitchen?” and that is annoying, it’s like he has to feel like he’s got and can have everything I give myself and WOW it feels like we’re kids, sometimes. (Believe me, I have a twin brother, and it feels very familiar!!!)

    I really would like to dig deeper into this feeling, because I honestly thought maybe if I mentioned this scenario between J and I, someone might not believe me, lol, like it was all in my head, but it happens all the time. I feel a tiny bit glad it’s not just me, lol, I have to admit, but not at the expense of anyone else, just feel like hey maybe I’m not nuts, maybe this is really going on, lol… I’m laughing because it is such ridiculous behavior that it’s almost funny, also a cool response rather than freaking out, lol.

    It is annoying when it is monkey-see, monkey do, especially because if it is something I’m doing to let myself feel good, I feel like I have no way to out-girl him and I hate that feeling, it feels the opposite of free or flowing, like I can’t do or not do anything special to “polarize” us – him in his masculinity and me in my femininity – or no way to show up on his radar, etc. He sure is a tough one, because he has so much feminine energy and he is so reserved and quiet and almost stoic, but it doesn’t mean anything bad.

    Here’s the weirdest part…sometimes I also feel a good feeling…I do believe he wouldn’t do it if he wasn’t “going after” me in a sense, so in a weird way a little part of me thinks it’s a little cute…especially when he thinks I’m flirting…he goes and talks to a female if he thinks someone’s flirting with me, and it really depends on the day it happens whether or not it bugs me….some days are more jealous or irritable than others, lol…but right now I’m feeling like I might giggle if he did it right now, lol. Sort of knowingly giggle and be like, hehe I know what you’re doing…

    I think I’ve got a good hold on the tool of switching my reactions…choosing different reactions that can be more positive and allow me to keep flowing. Now that is a cool tool. I never realized how easy it can be but I am a different person than I used to be because of that tool.

    I suppose maybe I could keep my self-treats a secret, lol…

    Anyway, time for me to have my dosage of Levothyroxine upped again, I’m feeling low and without the get-up-and-go, but yay me, because I’ve been disciplined with the gym this week. I also fixed a financial problem by getting a good photo gig today, which I did. Woo-hoo! Go me…I know that is my boy side of me, taking care of me…my girl side was worried so my boy side stepped up, lol…the boy side is a strong one, definitely.

    Here’s to ladies being ladies and being special and not even having to do anything to be special…! YEAH! 🙂

  80.  #80Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Mistea 1 – yay to experimenting with POF and having a lunch date next week – it could be lots and lots of that that helps create a shift in your feelings with MusicCD, or around yourself (being a mess internally…are they your words, or your daughter’s?) I certainly feel like that sometimes but I’m not sure if we don’t ALL feel like that – we’re never going to be perfectly perfect are we? But at least we’re trying – YAY – yay to trying to find what feels good to us – yay for embracing our own healing and development!

    Mandy – yes to yay you! 🙂

  81.  #81Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 10:32 pm

    Thank you so much CurvySiren, April Rose, Mistea1, Labbit & Turquoise.

    You ladies all made me feel very special. xx

  82.  #82RileyTheOwl on December 14, 2014 at 10:35 pm

    Mandy 78- When you talk about these scenarios with J, although it’s not identical to what I experience, I want to share that I’m experienced a similar thing with my C… sometimes he’ll ask me for things, like a backrub or as simple as a glass of water, and often, funnily enough, it’s in a moment where I feel like I want the back rub and I’m the one who wants a glass of water… if I’m feeling like being girly and leaning back and being given to. When he asks for these things, like backrubs, and I’m feeling this way, I get frustraed feelings inside and I feel confused. Shouldn’t I be getting the backrub? I want to out girl him, Hmm…
    /i feel unsure if I should post this because I’m scared someone will not understand me and say this is silly. I’ll post anyways, here goes. Sharing something small but it’s a start.

  83.  #83Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 10:38 pm

    I’m going to do a big long riff ‘cos maybe it will help me to get my feelings out…

    I feel stuck

    I feel like I try really really hard ‘at life’ but that it keeps tossing me back to the same place over and over again

    I feel frustrated that I don’t know the answers and I don’t know how to make things better for myself

    I feel like I’m doing something wrong

    I feel like I’m no good at this life thing

    I feel like with my work I give and give for very little in terms of financial return and then I feel sad because every little misfortune (like losing my sun hat feels like an injustice) and every time someone wants something from me I don’t have it to give – like, for example, as a tourist everyone expects you to have money to do the tourist things, and the beggars expect you to be able to help them (for example, one woman wanted me to buy baby formula for $25 – I don’t have $25) and then I feel bad both because of the judgement that has been made upon me that I am not generous and because I can’t meet people’s expectations. I wish they would ask tourists who actually do have money!

    And, I feel guilt that it sounds like I’m moaning when I realise I have privileges. I KNOW this, still I have to work within the framework of my own life and I feel tested by the money thing. I need financial security and it feels like I’m always taking one step forward, two back and I don’t know what I do wrong!

    And I’m not always focusing on the negative things – I promise – I share a lot of uncomfortable feelings here because the rest of the time I’m trying to flip my energy, or self love on myself, or distract myself from negative feelings, or focus on what I do want. But it wells up on me. Right now is a welling up. City life does not suit me so well, it really doesn’t. I love the sea to centre me. I feel triggered a lot in the city. By the sea I can just go and be quiet.

    So today, I felt all triggered because I felt like I did it ‘all wrong’ again. I wanted to walk and get some cheap street food and sit by the river, but I walked and walked and got lost and never found the river and then my dress was really wet with sweat and I felt uncomfortable and embarrassed and so then I had an drink in an expensive cafe because I needed to work out where I was and then had to get a tuk tuk back because I was far. So my ‘cheap’ day ended up feeling humiliating and wasn’t cheap at all so then I felt all the ‘I can’t get it right’ feelings.

    Such a sad, little girl feeling. In fact, now I am going to let myself cry.

  84.  #84Mandy on December 14, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Thanks Sophie!

    RileytheOwl – OMG, that sounds JUST like J! It seriously does! He also picks the time to get to the bathroom right before me…too much coordination here, lol! And I NEVER get back rubs I always GIVE them…something wrong there, lol!

    Wow I feel so shocked that this happens in other relationships, sometimes I think mine’s just weird!

  85.  #85Mandy on December 14, 2014 at 10:45 pm

    Sophie, hugs…

  86.  #86Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    So, an update on yesterday. D sent me a message really early in the morning wishing me happy birthday (he’d sent a message on Thursday as well wishing me as he said he’d be away for the weekend and might miss me – if you remember, I felt a little annoyed about that, but him sending me a message on my actual birthday made me feel a bit better).

    I only responded yesterday evening (thank you Labbit – I am not in a rush to respond to any man) and said simply, “Thank you.” He then texted and asked how my day was and I said it was so so, which was the truth (I won’t go into it, but it had to do with wanting to feel important to people), and he said he was sorry that my day hadn’t been awesome. I was going to leave it at that, not leaning forward and all that, but something in me just wanted to be open and authentic about how I was feeling. I said:

    “I got some beautiful presents from my family which was nice
    I felt disappointed not to hear your voice
    birthdays are important to me, and I realized, I just want to feel important to someone”
    And he replied, “Do you want me to phone you?”
    I told him it would make my day, and he did phone. I was pleasantly surprised, and I have to say, incredibly happy that he called and that I got to hear his voice. We chatted for a few minutes, he asked about me and told me about his weekend, though I only heard about every fourth word because he was mumbling. And then at the end he said he had bought me a present and would arrange to give it to me.

    So I thought, well I’ll leave it with him. He can make the arrangement, or not, I’m just going to continue leaning back. It did all feel pretty great though, because I leaned back the entire time, and it was actually better than I thought it would be. I have no hopes or expectations here, I’m just going to continue with my life, and he can do or not do. Like Labbit said, I never force my way in with any man.

  87.  #87Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    RileytheOwl 69,

    This sounds wonderful 🙂

  88.  #88Indigo on December 14, 2014 at 11:16 pm


    Everyone has days like that. Or at least I hope they do. I certainly do. I’ll have days where nothing goes to plan, I get irritable, I let someone down or I snap at someone, nothing flows. I’ve realized these days just happen. I just ride them out until they’re over and tomorrow will be better. For what it’s worth, I think the more you can flow with them, and not fight the way things are or how you’re feeling, the easier they feel to cope with.

    You’re not failing at anything. Smile at yourself, fix yourself a long hot bath/glass of wine/hot chocolate, and tell yourself, tomorrow will be better.

  89.  #89Sophie on December 14, 2014 at 11:55 pm

    Thank you Mandy and Indigo

    It feels good to hear that you got some of what you wanted on your birthday, Indigo 🙂

  90.  #90Waterfall on December 15, 2014 at 12:14 am

    Indigo, Sophie – 34, 35 – thank you for sharing your thoughts around the word “sensitivity” it’s been most insightful.

    Indigo – What you have said deeply touches a nerve with me (ultra sensitives are often counselors, teachers and skilled advisers) because I feel that is something I have been pushed into, rather than chosen. I don’t feel I have chosen to be “ultra-sensitive” rather it has been forced upon me. As the older child I have always been the more serious one, have more sense of responsibility etc. I think that is where my sensitivity has come from. And then on top of that I was also berated for being “too” sensitive! I couldn’t win!

    Sophie – Wow! I realise that is a completely different way to look at being sensitive – and I actually quite like it – rather than something being forced upon me this is something I can gently embrace. Hmm… ohh I am imagining you being in your room and gently soothing yourself and there has been many times when I have wanted to do that too, but felt guilty and ashamed, and I love your analogy. Thank you.

  91.  #91Waterfall on December 15, 2014 at 12:25 am

    Indigo – Happy Birthday, by the way!

    Yaaay! I hope you are having a good one…

    What you wrote about D not being there and giving you a present and making you feel special, completely resonated with me (and my D hehe!). Oh, I just want to take you and hug you so I am sending you a virtual hug instead… (((((((Indigo))))))

    Also, I too spoke my truth to D at how disappointed I was. I remember sitting there on the morning of my birthday (it was a special one as well) and I he watched me open all my cards and presents. And a tear shed from my eyes and he asked me why and I was just straight with him. I told him – I was shocked he hadn’t even bothered to get me a card or a small token gift. (I know that sounds materialistic but that means a lot to me).

    He just shrugged and more or less laughed it off and told me he would see me in the evening for my party. I remember hoping that he would do the right thing and get me a card and present then. I also remember how disappointed I was that he didn’t. I don’t think he even bought me a drink, or was even by my side the whole evening! The morning after I plucked up the courage to tell him how disappointed I was again he told me not to worry and that he was going to get me something special for my birthday but he was just not into card giving. To be honest it made me so angry and I didn’t speak to him for a week or so until he turned up back at my home and begged me to see him. He apologised and said he would make it up to me if I gave him another chance. I did give him another chance and he did buy me a lovely gift.

    Ooooh, it was a difficult time for me. Even though we got back together things still didn’t run smooth for me. Anyway, I hope this hasn’t made you feel worse, but I thought it would be interesting and useful for you.

  92.  #92Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 12:40 am

    I like very much how you handled the situation with D and your birthday. Also, from what I see, you are doing the only thing that is sensible and logical, and if it also feels good to you – brava.
    I had a situation some years ago when I was in love with someone, but he treated me as a friend and would not step up. I cried and cried but did not dare to lean forward (I was just out of a broken relationshop and I was gun shy). After a while, I figured that I need to give him a lilltle push, but also I would be devastated if he would reject me. So I started dating the first other man that came around. I would not have dated him under normal circumstances but drastic situations call for drastic measures. And, I made sure the other guy noticed it. And then, when a proposal came from him to hang out, I accepted, but then, at the end of the evening I very sweetly told him that, as much as I like him, I will no longer be able to hang out with him, because I now have a boyfried and he woulldn’t like it. I could see he was upset, so I asked him about it. He was not a man to speak of his feelings, he was just grunting and looking upset. And I said to him, look, I see you don’t like it, and I really really like you, I was hoping that may be there was something romantic going between you and me, but I was never sure. And he said, well, I was shy because I was not sure you would want to date me (were you blind or something?). Anyhow, we started dating and it was great. I am pretty sure I would not have gotten him to step up if he wasn’t jealous because of the other man. Jealosy is such a potent emotion, it starts wars, you know. But the thing is, I could simply go no wrong by dating the other guy. Even if the one I loved had not responded positively, I would have probably developed feelings for the othe guy, or would have moved on to still another man. There are certain strategies that simply can not fail. Several years later I realized this is called CDing. Love you, Rori!

  93.  #93Mistea1 on December 15, 2014 at 4:40 am

    Sophie 79
    Thanks for your support. The feeling like I’m a mess inside comes from me. I like things to be clear cut and feelings are not.

    I had too much contact with MusicTd yesterday. The beautiful music and the comments were almost too much. Well, maybe they were.

    So here I am weeping because it is not MusicTd that is approaching but someone I’m becoming acquainted with is working to get a lunch date set up. Another new person is engaging me in interesting emails but is not who I want.

    You are probably right that feelings change when I meet other people. MusicTd has an issue with not stepping up to the plate which is a non-negotiable one.

    He probably thought I was up in the loft to see him when I was actually listening deeply to the music. I kept my eyes closed most of the time so I was not distracted by his physical presence. Mostly

    Victoria 91
    My daughter and I had a similar conversation yesterday. I told her that I felt like eventually taking one or both of these guys to show MusicTd that I was also desirable. Whatever. She said absolutely not because she thinks I am inflaming the situation and being rude to him. I told her he was the one who made a point of letting me know he was ignoring me.
    Writing this I am realizing this is so much junior high behavior. Or maybe it’s not. Hope this becomes more clear at some point.

  94.  #94Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 5:07 am

    I am so sorry to hear you feel you are a mess inside. To me, you are very smart, articulate, and highly sensitive to the magical gift of music, that is, you are absolutely wonderful and I wish I could know you in real life.
    I want to make one small clarification to my post above: it is not that much the jealosy, but the part about me having the ability to truly let go and be with someone else. Of course, jealosy, is the catchy word there. But I know I am not much of a poker player, and I have a hard time bluffing, and I have never been able to make someone jealous without REALLY having someone else.

  95.  #95Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 5:11 am

    I just had a great date with F. He is stepping up, he is stepping up! I keep leaning back, he had a night shift last night, but I did not call him. Today, right after work, first thing on his mind is so call me and arrange to come and see me. He says he was thinking about me the whole of last night (yes, me too). He is making shy little plans for us. He is future-talking. I am smiling (beaming) and leaning back.
    Thank you all, thank you all for giving me the support and inspiration to be able to do that!

  96.  #96Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 5:32 am

    92 Mistea1 — You are so much stronger than you know, then you give yourself credit for. I highly doubt that these intense longing feelings you’re having right now have much to do with MusicTd at all. What you’re looking for is his approval…you want him to validate you. I have so been here. With many men. If he suddenly turned around on a dime, did a 180 and started coming after you hard, I have a feeling you’d find him much less attractive and likely be bored with him.

    It is so awesome that you’re CD’ing. I completely relate to your thoughts on how not fun it feels right now, how it’s almost like a chore just to get your mind off of MusicTd. But really that longing you’re feeling is a need you need to give yourself. You feel incomplete somehow but you’re not. If you can learn to reframe this longing into something you’re not giving yourself, and then give yourself all the love and support and permission to be you and maybe permission to relax and just not to anything or try to be anyone or strive so hard, you may find yourself needing MusicTd less and less quickly.

    When you and MusicTd run into each other, make him a reminder to yourself to give YOU lots of love. He means nothing in reality. The longing, the desire, it’s all within you and you can fill it up for yourself! The right man won’t feel like he’s out of reach or playing games — he’ll be coming towards you. That this man triggers such deep needing in you is a sign that you’re missing out on some much-needed love to yourself. 🙂

  97.  #97Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 5:57 am

    This past weekend was wonderful. On Saturday, TenderCd and I joined another couple and drove out to a Christmas Tree farm about an hour outside of the city. It was the kind of farm where you take a tractor out to the field of trees, pick one, and then they cut it down for you. Of course TenderCD was interested in putting on a manly display so he insisted on cutting the tree down himself — and it was incredibly sexy.

    Picking out the tree was so much fun! Before we’d left TenderCD had taken measurements of his living room so we didn’t pick out one that was too tall. On the way out to the farm I was intrigued and wondering how the process would go. Would we work well together? Would we pick different trees? How would we decide if we liked two different styles? The other couple with us had their heart set on a specific type of tree, but Tender and I wanted to see everything in person before we decided.

    We got some spiced cider from the farmhouse and then made our way to the field. We walked through a delicious-smelling sea of trees, from little baby ones all the way to mature multi-story behemoths. Neither of us said much while we were walking, aside from the occasional “What do you think of this one?” About halfway through the field, TenderCD stopped dead in his tracks in front of one tree. It was exactly what I’d been picturing in my head, too. We agreed on it quickly and then TenderCD showed off his chainsaw skills. An hour later two trees were wrapped and strapped to the SUV roof for the ride back into our city.

    I’d already decorated around his apartment and mine the weekend before, so putting up the tree and ornamenting it was the last touch. We combined our ornament sets (OK, 90% mine and like 5% his which were of course sports or drinking-related, plus a couple we’d bought together). He made sure I got twisted up in the lights and I tied garland around his neck. At the end he put our topper on from the top of a step-ladder; very dangerous man-stuff that I was pleased as punch to see him do. There were a few times when he told me I was doing it wrong, so I gently reminded him that there’s no wrong way to start a new tradition.

    By early evening we were pretty wiped out and just turned on the lights and stared at our tree for awhile. We did argue a little bit over the balance of ornaments…but nothing serious at all. Everything feels so easy and flowy with him right now and I love it. He wrapped me up like a burrito next to him in his super-soft furry blanked and kissed me while I was wrapped up and couldn’t fight back, LOL. It’s hard to hold back how excited I feel sometimes, but I work to keep myself a challenge for him so he remembers how special I am.

  98.  #98Mistea1 on December 15, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Victoria 94
    Upon reading your post I saw in my minds eye a view of you looking down at your open cupped hands at the newly hatched baby bird with great love and knowing. A short time ago you would have grasped the poor thing too tight like a toddler who is learning hand coordination. You are doing so well, I’m proud to know you too.

    Thanks for the clarification on the jealousy angle. MusicTd is extremely intuitive and as I develop a real interest in others he will likely know it and that will be that. Whatever that means. His real love is his instrument and the music anyway.

  99.  #99Mistea1 on December 15, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Labbit 96

    I felt so happy when I read your story about you and TenderCD picking out the tree and the decorations. I’d almost forgotten how these family traditions get started. Loving kindness toward each other is a good place.

    We all need to read these stories too. They are a good reminder of what can be and the tender cozy feelings that enhance our lives.

  100.  #100Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 6:27 am

    thank you thank you, you are so right. My natural instinct would be to grasp the poor little bird, suffocate him and at the same time try to shove food down his throat. Sooo, this time I will go really easy. And, very importantly, not forget to keep seeing other men! It is a chore, but I need to keep doing it, until I can feel safer, or may be forever, why not forever?
    Anyhow, no need to worry about forever now, I have another date with him planned, and plans for Christmas, yoo-hoooo!
    I am a queen, a Goddess, whatever, I am big! Maybe it is not even love afterall, but my huge ego talking…
    I am trying to have some humility, but frankly, I am so happy when he is stepping up, even if it is a tiny-winy thing…
    Now to MusicTd, I understand why you are so attracted. Men who are totally devoted and proficient at what they do are sooooo sexy.
    The guy I was telling you about was a professional athlete… And F. is very devoted to his job as well, it is a very demanding, almost heroic job. By the way, he blossoms every time I tell him how much I respect his job and that I think he is great at it… Men need compliment too!

  101.  #101Mistea1 on December 15, 2014 at 7:18 am

    Labbit 95

    Of course you are right. This is all an inside job for me. I knew that early on too, but with all that happened and him expressing interest in me I became confused. I didn’t expect his interest at first. Then I realized that this heightened interest on my part was/is a great way to work on some serious issues I have not paid attention to. You know, “love brings up all that is unlike itself to be removed.”

    I have been paying a great deal of attention to love beauty and pleasure. I discovered “it is hard to endure pleasure and beauty without retreating.” This is exactly what I do so this is what I am working on. In addition, retreating from pleasure and beauty hampers my writing especially the poetry. I want to do some composing too. I am committed to working on this now that I see the connection.

    I too, think the CDing will be a big help. The lunch date guy sounds like a real person which I certainly can use. I want to feel I’m communicating normally like I usually do and not the wierdness of MusicTd.

    The other one will give me a chance to get a perspective I haven’t considered in a long time. Dang, without sounding so jaded you’ll all throw me out of here not much is new to me. Well, except MusicTd! 🙂
    Thanks, Labbit, you are most helpful in my reorganizing my thinking patterns, I appreciate it. I will tell myself everytime I see MusicTd that I can fill myself up with all the love I want. The goal for me is to become love itself. Then there is no chasing love and approval.

    He will be gone on a lecture/concert tour in Europe first two weeks of January. This will give me time without his influence and will be helpful to me.

    The music program this time of the year with Advent in our Christian tradition is a good time to start.
    My son and dtr-in-law were most impressed by the program and want to come back for other things. It would be so nice to have family at this church too. I hope it happens.

    I did chuckle about the relax statement. That’s exactly what my Australian friend said too! OK I get it.

  102.  #102Mistea1 on December 15, 2014 at 7:43 am

    Victoria 99

    Oh,oh my, I laughed so hard thinking of you trying to stuff food down the bird’s throat too. Too, too funny.
    Thanks for that image, (she said, as she wiped tears of laughter from her eyes.) This certainly neutralizes all the tears of anguish I shed yesterday. 🙂

    Yes, I like accomplished men as well, however, they may not be so well rounded. so maybe I do want to put up with more than a few sharp edges. Hmmm, food for thought. What is best for me? Maybe I’m too used to this as the ex. was a scientist of some note. I could try to be more relaxed about this and try for love and happiness. Ooh, different concept for me.
    Thanks again, Victoria.

  103.  #103Millie on December 15, 2014 at 7:57 am

    Funny update…. “Out of town guy” messaged me yesterday that he chose unwisely and chose the wrong woman. He went against his instinct and chose what was available and appealing…and apparently she “threw a dagger to his heart.” He got screwed over!!! So fast! Unbelievable! He’s asking to be friends at least on Facebook, but I have no desire to respond or even entertain that idea right now. I’m on my horse already…. Literally…. Gone.

  104.  #104Indigo on December 15, 2014 at 8:17 am

    Thank you Sophie

    Thank you so much for the hugs Waterfall 🙂

  105.  #105Indigo on December 15, 2014 at 8:26 am

    Victoria 91,

    I felt very pleased by the way I handled it too, and glad I didn’t break my leaning back.

    I hear what you are saying about the jealousy, and I’m sure it can be a potent catalyst. I feel flattered and warm when the guy that I love is jealous over me, but it’s never been a motivating factor for me to do anything specifically. I’m not into competitiveness at all. It also has to do with me being pretty strong-willed I think… I always have to do things because I decided independently it was a good idea and not be influenced by how someone else would feel about it. Another aspect to my fierce independence. For example, for a long time I was CDing while seeing D, but I never mentioned it to him. In fact, I would go to some effort to hide it from him. And on the odd occasion that he suspected, he did get jealous, once even going so far as to try to convince me to break it off with one particular guy, basically saying the guy wasn’t good enough for me, or something to that effect. I’m a big old softie though, I could never bring myself to hurt him by putting another guy in his face. The one and only time I did, I was very hurt and angry, and it did hurt him. I didn’t like myself much for doing that!

  106.  #106Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 10:44 am

    100 Mistea1 — Oh yes, I know those feelings you are talking about! The exhilaration when a man we consider so desirable or handsome or special, when he first pays special attention to us and it feels first surprising, and then it almost becomes a game of keeping him interested because it feels so good. Except then trying to keep his attention ends up feeling not so good…

    You are doing all the right things for yourself, and it’s so cool to me that you’re able to keep your mind open to different perspectives and advice. I hope that you have lots of fun dates to practice, and be cherished, and discover what it’s like to have multiple men in your life who want nothing more than to treat you wonderfully.

  107.  #107Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 10:45 am

    I am thinking about myself…I am not a softie at all. The guy I was telling about, the one I made jealous, he told me eventually that he was seeing that there is someone else in my life and it was causing him agony. That did notinspire any sympathy in me. I thought well, this is what you get by not chasing the girl you like. Labbit had recommended a website here not long ago, and the author there was also supportive to do what is right by you even if that makes the man suffer, it is a life lesson to learn the consequences of your behavior. So I am really strong on the inside. I just need to be softer on the ourside.

  108.  #108Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 10:49 am

    102 Millie — Ha, karma came to him rather quickly! One of the books I read recently had a great analogy in it…when bird trainers are training their birds, they never have the bird at eye-level. The trainer will take the bird off its pedastal and put in on the ground. This is because if the bird is at the same eye-level as the trainer, it might bite with its beak in a play for dominance. This is where the term ‘cocky’ comes from. So instead the trainer puts the bird on the ground, where the bird is less secure and therefore more trainable. Then the trainer puts its arm down on the floor and allows the bird to climb up the trainer’s arm.

    So I like to think of myself putting men on the ground like the birds. They can never got cocky this way. They’re never up on a pedestal. It’s up to me whether I put my arm down and invite them to get close to me. 🙂

  109.  #109Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 10:55 am

    106 Victoria and Indigo — Ohhhh, I am intrigued by your thoughts Victoria! I sometimes too feel like I’m good at being strong on the inside, but not so great at being soft on the outside. In fact I often feel like I’m harsh. But then again, I also overfunction. So it’s been a big puzzle for me figuring out how to be soft without being a doormat.

    Is it that standing up for myself just feels harsh to me? I’m not sure, because in my CD experiences I can remember saying some tough things that turned men off…when my intent was simply to stand up for myself. Even now I still find myself being quiet at times when I know I should speak up for myself, but being afraid to because I don’t want to say something mean.

    For me, this comes from my Mom. (And I’m sure she learned it from her Mom and back on in our family, so I’m not saying this in a blaming way. I love my Mom!) She is so harsh sometimes when she argues with my Dad. She’ll say things I find emasculating…and it makes me very uncomfortable. Yet I sometimes find myself doing the same thing in my relationships, because I had years of training at home. 🙁 Without meaning to I know just what button to push with my words to make a man feel like less of a man. I HATE this part of myself, and I know that hate keeps it around. But I’m not yet at the point where I’ve learned enough of the new soft language where I can have heated discussions effectively. Arguments and disagreements are very, very hard for me. I’m constantly afraid of driving a man away in disagreements.

  110.  #110lovetodance on December 15, 2014 at 11:00 am

    sophie 82

    i hope you are feeling better today….after riffing and crying….

    you are such a lovely siren…..big hug….all these feelings seem so human to me…the good the bad the ugly….and the sublime!

    keep rocking on lovely siren…..

  111.  #111Dominique on December 15, 2014 at 11:07 am

    Mistea – 77 – But aren’t we all messes inside, lovely, fascinating, beautiful, endearing messes. And I think this is amazing. You’re gaining awareness around what you wish to rewire, and with this you can change anything. And when you can be open and vulnerable, real and authentic about your stuff with a man, especially a man who has the potential to be your forever man, your internal messiness is part of what he will love about you. Doesn’t this feel better knowing this?


  112.  #112Dominique on December 15, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Sophie – 82 – You sound so much like me in so many ways. And I love you for this as well as for all which you perceive as a negative but which is so very lovable and sweet. I just want you to know that I understand and feel as you do far more than you might possibly imagine. I think many of us do, yet here you are being so very honest about it all.

    I don’t see you as going backwards at all by the way. In the time I’ve known you, I’ve seen beautiful blossoming even if it doesn’t feel this way to you sometimes.

    Love to you.


  113.  #113Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 11:51 am

    I am also sometimes harsh, and sometimes sarcastic which is pretty bad too. Sometimes I am just unnecesarily blunt… And he is very soft spoken and kind not just to me but to every one.
    Anyhow, I have no fear of being taken for a doormat. I do things to serve him occasionally but I do it very deliberately, the way geisha are hyperbolizingly serving their men.
    I need to keep leaning back and never ever criticize… and it seems almost doable now 🙂

  114.  #114Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    You will probably laugh at some of the things I do for him, but you will get my point
    – when he comes out of the shower I bow and put his towel around him
    – dry his hair for him
    – cook 6 course meals
    – aromatherapy backrubs
    – call him “master” occasionally.
    It is like a joke between us, but I think a part oF him is truly fascinated with this game.
    He says no one ever treated him like this… now with the lean back he gets none of it and he is starting to miss it hehe

  115.  #115Labbit on December 15, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    113 Victoria — This is great! LOL. I can absolutely see how a man would get a kick out of those things, especially if they’re done a little tongue in cheek. And yes I do see how they’re more geisha than doormat.

    OK, this helps. 🙂 Thank you! For me the fear is becoming abrasive when I speak. That’s the word I was looking for. It’s a self-defense mechanism. I think I have to keep practicing being open, imagining letting a man touch my heart and come really close to me, even when I want to close off out of those old fears.

    I am NEVER letting TenderCD see your list, haha. Six course meals? I could do back rubs…but lord, I am not letting him get any ideas.

  116.  #116Azure Blu on December 15, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    RileytheOwl #69
    Ohhh… how well you write about the feelings of being asked to meet C the same day…
    You have shared here exactly why It DOESNT feel good to me
    to meet last minute with a man…
    Yes, YES!!
    You wrote…
    “Afterwards I’ve noticed I feel like my day
    was taken away from me,
    as though I’m giving in to seeing him
    without a nice date, or
    something more official feeling, being set.
    And that’s not very okay with me,
    I’d rather live my day out
    fulfilled with all my fun activities,….”

    AND then YOU shared with him,
    in a soft Siren way….
    “ohhh hahah I just have a funny way
    of how even when I don’t have any plans,
    I already have in mind what I’m, doing in a day… 🙂
    so making plans the day of
    doesn’t really feel good with me…
    but I so appreciate that you asked,
    and I really would love to see you soon,
    I miss feeling your arms around me”

    and of course he responded with tender,
    gentle, care!!!
    Ahhhh… it brought happy tears to my eyes
    and I copied and pasted
    this lovely feeling message..

  117.  #117Azure Blu on December 15, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    Labbitt #96
    you are a rock star Siren!!! :->

    Ohhh… WOW… I have happy tears in my eyes…
    streaming down my face…

    Thank YOU for sharing this charming Christmas day…
    looking for the tree (my favorite: outside and cutting down)
    and then decking the boughs with colorful balls!!!
    All soooo luscious!!
    ” He made sure I got twisted up in the lights
    and I tied garland around his neck.
    At the end he put our topper on
    from the top of a step-ladder;
    very dangerous man-stuff
    that I was pleased as punch to see him do.”
    Ohhh…. Labbitt
    like Mistea said… it is sooo good
    to read about how easy it can be.. (after your leaning back of course)

  118.  #118Mandy on December 15, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Just listened to Rori.

    I like to listen to her voice sometimes because it is soothing and it gets me out of my head. That and I felt curious about her discussion today.

    Poor J is in pain, because he has two vertebrae in his lumbar spine that are not properly fused together, and also scoliosis ad a herniated disc in between vertebrae. he’s on serious pain killers, Valium and Vicodin, on top of prescription strength Ibuprofen.
    So we’re on the passionate downswing, but somehow this one isn’t bothering me as much. It’s a faint loneliness, but there’s a reason for it that’s not my fault, so it takes away the feeling of responsibility and it having anything to do with me. That’s something that at least feels better. Not only that, but I know something fun maybe that might perk him up a bit, lol. 🙂 And if it doesn’t it will still be fun…

    So hey, it’s like things are supposed to be just crappy right now, but I don’t perceive it that way. Kinda feels hopeful and positive. You can bet that when you have a hard time, good times are around the corner…my femaleCD helps too, because she’s actually a sex therapist 🙂

    He’s seeing his dad i the hospital because he just had surgery for the EXACT same thing J suffers from. I’m pretty sure he will need surgery, and I kind of think it will be better sooner than later, but…oh boy, thi has really changed his life.

    I so feel the motherly urge to call him and see what he’s doing, but I have to lean back because leaning forward doesn’t always do me much good, when dealing with J, he’s just like any other man and doesn’t like smothering. LOL. Our motherly urge is so strong, isn’t it? Boy I had the BIGGEST urge last night to go wake him up from a nap because I felt lonesome, up at night on the computer by myself, lol, but I turned on some music and riffed a bit and I was fine. It was funny because then he came around the corner, and I had only “dropped the firehose” of waking him up to tend to my loneliness about five minutes earlier. Lol. It’s like he was like, hm, I sense something, lol, I’m going to wake up…so weird.

    These urges are natural I believe but when I ignore them, sometimes things actually end up happening.

  119.  #119April Rose on December 15, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Turquoise – hi!

    I wrote to you on the previous thread 🙂

  120.  #120April Rose on December 15, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Is it the 15th today?

    Oh no. Have I missed Rori’s tele class?
    The second one will broadcast too late.

    Does anyone know if recordings will be available?

  121.  #121zsturnaround on December 15, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    dear lord just want to be loved care for just like every one els reaaaach the higher part of life no one ever been god bless every one

  122.  #122Femininewoman on December 15, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    It is going on now

  123.  #123Zia on December 15, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Indigo 34 – Re ultra sensitive – I prefer to think of it as having a lot more awareness 🙂

  124.  #124lovetodance on December 15, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    121 love this zia! ….me too!

  125.  #125IamHis on December 15, 2014 at 9:21 pm

    I feel thrilled and brave and curious.

  126.  #126IamHis on December 15, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    It is reeeeeeally difficult to not lean forward with Foreign Guy. I am so physically attracted to him. It’s a little maddening.

    I love his body and the way he constantly touches me. So when he’s anywhere near me I just kind of crave his touch.

    I had to practice leaning back.

    Sinking into my feelings. I used a tool that Natalina taught me.

    It felt extremely unnatural to “practice the tools” with him.

    He wanted me to go dress shopping with him & his little sisters, 9 & 1.

    It felt hectic and crazy & like we were their parents. I think we handled it really well. We told the oldest “no” & backed each other up. It felt really strange and good. I found myself looking to him for guidance and communication and it felt extremely strange but also extremely good.

  127.  #127RileyTheOwl on December 15, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    I’m feeling smothered by my family
    it feels hot in here
    and stuffy
    and loud
    I feel the tense energy, my dad radiates negative energy, a black aura, my mother spreads tenseness through the air… bickering, so unlovigna and unappreciative of my father, who although is disconnected, tries his hardest to please her and never raises his voice at her
    it’s so smothering, I feel all management surrounding me, she’s trying to manage me. It feels weighing. I feel uninspired.

    I steped outside of our loud, negative energy house
    out of the back kitchen door
    into the dark twillight, I could see the mountains and hear the ocean
    and hear the wind in the forest
    the forest is so welcoming, I have a tree there that is my favorite tree and we talk
    well I talk to it, whisper, about my family, my feelings, and I lean against it and pretend its trunk is my trunk

    and its roots become my roots
    then I’m grounded
    and I take off my socks and feel the earths energy come through me and steady me, and the wind in the twillight carresses me, and I know someday I’ll be out of this place. Someday soon, only a few more months to go and I’ll be off on my travels all by myself.
    Onl;y a few more months!!!
    That feels exciting, the concept of finally being gone from here

    Have my own apartment where I can breath
    and be still
    enjoy the energy
    hehe that’s what i’m fantasizing about right now:)

    the sky at the edge of this forest is wonderful, after I’m done writing this I want to go back out there although it will be dark now

    Wooossshhhhh wow my parents are gone from my mind
    I kissed the tree trunk and hugged it and told the earth thank you.
    thank you for being here for me, for sharing your roots with me, for letting me walk on you barefoot and to be human

    I feel so much love coming my way, from the earth… from the sky… from C
    After we saw eachother today he sent me many texts about how he just can’t stop thinking about me

    yeeessss I have him under my spell 😉

    He said that once! It was summer and we met at the park, I gave him a sip of my home made iced blackberry tea.
    A few weeks later he was calling me, and asked all serious and slow if I had put love potion in the tea, because he felt infatuated with me
    I’m going to go to bed soon

  128.  #128IamHis on December 15, 2014 at 9:34 pm

    Another interesting moment found us in a crowded room and I told him I felt really shy because I “knew” a lot of people there, but not really because it had been such a long time.

    He smiled and stroked the back of my head and I kind of melted a little bit.

  129.  #129RileyTheOwl on December 15, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    Azure, 115,
    Ohh thank you thank you Azure, it feels so good to hear a response from you here. I want to let you know that I’ve noticed how you always answer me here, whether you mean to or not, and I really so appreciate your wonderful presence. I look up to you, siren:)

    OOOooohhhhhh! EEee I’m excited that you copy and pasted what I said to C… as far as I know, I’m usually the one copy and pasting what other sirens here say and am not usually the one being quoted. This feels good, like I’m progressing and becoming a more natural siren. Thank you Azure 🙂

  130.  #130IamHis on December 15, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    I spoke way too soon about him not triggering me. The fear and anger and suspicion I always feel towards men showed up in a big way.

    I just let myself feel it. I didn’t speak it. I don’t know.

    At one point we were all riding on the bus; him, his 9 year old sister. & me. & we were all on our phones or tablets. & suddenly it hit me, I guess anger and disgust that we were all together but not connecting each in our separate worlds.

    I took out my headphones and made a conscious effort to observe and feel and be in that moment with them…even if they weren’t in it with me.

    I felt so surprised when seconds later, he took out his headphones and turned and looked at ME…I mean really looked at me.

    I feel embarrassed but I didn’t look back at him. I felt angry…so angry. That he was looking at me the way he was…that so much time was wasted with impersonal technology.

    He got out first and waited for me, but I felt so angry that I just walked passed him.

    I feel so weird about my responses. I love my weirdness & responses!

    He majorly triggers me! He’s so young and there’s so much he doesn’t understand and he barely speaks English!

  131.  #131IamHis on December 15, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    It triggered me that he wasn’t touching me as much since his sisters were with us.

    I felt all the awfulness of feeling untouched. As we were leaving a store, he reaches behind me and just kind of gives my shoulder a quick rub.

    Relief. That I could feel that much relief from a simple touch feels really scary…

  132.  #132Indigo on December 15, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Zia 121,

    Yes, that’s just how I think of it. I think of my nervous system as this great big receiver, like one of those great big satellite dishes with a radar. Pretty cool when you think of it.

  133.  #133Indigo on December 15, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    RileytheOwl 125,

    I loved your feeling message too! I think I may go and copy and paste it just like Azure Blu has done.

    I resonate so much with what you said about your family at the moment. I live at home, and although I have my private quarters I can still hear the noise of my family and feel it when my mom and stepdad have a fight. I love them but my stepdad has a dominating energy, and my mom has a tense, anxious energy. Sometimes it makes her talk incessantly, sometimes negative talk about other people, and my sensitive nature finds this difficult to cope with. I often find myself running away. We actually had a fight about this on my birthday because she was going on and on about the flaws of a girl she knows and later on I snapped at her about how I didn’t want to talk about this on my birthday. Sometimes living here feels a bit much, and I don’t have enough quiet and peace that I sometimes crave. I am looking for another place to live although it may take a bit of time. Hopefully soon.

    Really loved your description of the forest and the earth!

  134.  #134Zia on December 15, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    130 – Indigo – yes exactly 🙂 I spent so much of my life feeling wrong for it, and trying to shut it out… now I live in allowance and gratitude of it, and since recognizing it as awareness I feel good about letting it flow through me. I don’t need to get caught up in it anymore, just let it flow. It feels great!

  135.  #135Victoria on December 15, 2014 at 11:41 pm

    Riley and Indigo,
    I also loved Riley’s description of the forest and her tree… so poetic. I can almost see my own forest and my own tree reading it.
    As for living with the parents – I hated living with mine even as a child… I hate visiting with them (they live in another city). I have been feeling guilty for years for that, and I have so much blame against them for not treating me right. My father is an alcoholic and my mother should have left him ages ago… they have (always had) a disfunctional relationship and I want no part of it. I try not to dwell too much on it because if I do, I could be in therapy for years.. not my cup of tea…

  136.  #136Victoria on December 16, 2014 at 12:15 am

    Labbit 108,
    I have been thinking about what you said, because being soft on the outside is difficult for me too.
    Not impossible, and when I am focused I can do it, I know how to use very soft and very sweet words… the siren language. But when I am tired, or stressed, I forget, and my natural, yes, abrasive is a good word, side, comes out.
    I have noticed that when I do the geisha things, I really do not need to argue with a man. The men who have had the honor to be treated like this by me usually become very appreciative and want to please me whatever way they can. It is just that I can not be like that all the time. I can do it, as you said, tongue-in-cheek, but not all the time.
    I am thinking that a part of the problem is because I do not truly respect the man/men too much, to have the geisha behavior naturally come to me all the time. When I say to myself, “treat him with the higherst respect” I can do it, but it does not come naturally. I have dreamed of meeting a man who would just inspire the highest respect in me, but never quite managed to meet him. No one is perfect. One is too short (i.e. lacking in the attraction depatment), the other one is not so smart, the third one is lazy, the forth one is unkind… I compare them to my own vision of myself, and I alsways see myself as the better and more deserving person. I do understand now that this is an internal problem and that I want to meet myself only male and slightly better and that would be highly problematic.
    I have also noticed that how you speak to a man, makes such a tremendous difference. It can be the same message, but the way you say it, makes the difference between night and day. And yes, some times silence is golden. I have such a huge mouth, if I learn to just shut up once in a while, I will consider myself highly acomplished, lol.

  137.  #137Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 12:57 am

    Yes… I have been working on silence, pauses and speaking softer and listening MORE!!

    I also am a strong, opinionated woman…
    It is an ongoing practice…

    BUT when I am able to do this…
    which is happening MORE and MORE…
    It is sooo POWERFUL…
    it creates such a connection between me and the other person…
    I have been practicing this with my children (daughter-34 yrs and son 30 yrs)
    Ohhh… my…. they feel so much more willing to express themselves… to share their real thoughts and feelings
    and they feel heard and loved!!!
    AND the intimacy this creates is just AMAZING…
    Ahhh… the power of the Rori tools…

    I’ve been practicing this with my CDs also…
    AND with Spirit… which is the more difficult because I have much feeling for him…
    BUT I am getting sooo much better!!!
    The last time we were together…
    I started getting pushy
    I expressed feeling dissapointed about NOT being invited to his home (5 months of dating and have not been to his apt)
    he began giving his excuses again… I started saying
    “yet but…..”
    and then I heard myself…
    I stopped and listened to him
    and then gave him the respect he deserves…
    I said “I hear and respect your reasons… however long it takes… you need that time”
    I did say… but I’m 63 and want to be with a man who is ready for a relationship…
    and he said.. Please, Please give me some time…
    After being very close and seeing each other many times in 2 weeks… He pushed back… only texts for a week…
    Now I don’t feel as anxious… (still triggered though)
    now that I have 3 other men in my rotation…
    He textd me tonight for a spontanious date..
    and I used RileytheOwls feeling messages about last minute dates…
    and I declined.
    He apologized for being last minute and wanted to make sure we saw each other this week.

  138.  #138Victoria on December 16, 2014 at 2:02 am

    I so love reading what you write.
    Many times people are not ready to give us what we want for reasons completely unrelated to us… and we just need to be patient. But it is such a struggle for me!
    I also liked very much Riley’s feeling message about last minute… Even though, in fact, I do not mind last minute dates. There is a certain spontaneity and passion in those, so I have not discouraged them.
    The one big problem for me in not keeping promises. Like saying “I will call you” and not calling, or cancelling a date. And then, if I say “I thought you said you’d call” he says “well, you could have called me yourself”. No I could not. But I do not want to explain myself, so I just tell myself to keep leaning back.

  139.  #139Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 2:15 am

    Azure Blu,

    Yes, sometimes people (men) are not able to give us what we want for reasons completely unrelated to us. And this is where leaning back is so powerful, and so necessary. First of all it reveals what the person is able to give, and second of all it means we never need to push our way in with someone, and hence can feel secure that it is what they want when they rather invite us in.

    I am finding that leaning back gets easier the more you do it. I am just over two weeks into it, and in the first week I could feel the internal struggle. In the second week there were some patches of weirdness. Now that I’m into the third week it is feeling a lot more natural. It is getting more difficult to even imagine leaning forward. I’ve noticed for me the key is, when those difficult feelings come – like longing, or weirdness, frustration, internal struggle – to just sit with the feeling and feel it, rather than act on it.

    I noticed how much better it felt when D leaned in toward me and phoned me on Sunday night, even though it was a small thing it felt much better than any other time I have leaned forward towards him. I don’t ever want to go back.

  140.  #140Labbit on December 16, 2014 at 4:47 am

    Victoria, Azure Blu and Indigo,

    Thank you all wonderful Sirens for your thoughts! Victoria, yes, it is the same for me where when I’m tired or stressed that is when my abrasive side is most likely to come out. You are so right that how you speak to a man makes all the difference…it is worth it to slow down and wait before speaking, to make sure I say what I want to say in a way we can both hear.

    Azure, I am so happy for you that you’ve been both leaning back and delivering some killer feeling messages with SpiritCD. I like how you describe learning the balance between meaningful listening silence and still expressing your strong Sireny opinions — men love a woman who doesn’t hide her light! Stifling ourselves gets us nowhere…balance is the key. As far as SpiritCD being hesitant about inviting you to his place, I have been told that the only thing men fear more than being caged themselves is putting a woman in their cage. So while Spirit is unsure, too attached to his ‘freedom’, he may also be hesitant about trapping you.

    Indigo, hooray that leaning back is getting easier! It does feel more and more natural the more you do it…those first steps are so hard! If nothing else, you have D’s attention and I’m sure he’s intrigued. Remember too that men operate on their own timeline…I have a feeling he’s also leaning back a little right now, perhaps even amused, wondering what it is that this fascinating creature Indigo might do next. And once he realizes the answer is NOTHING, well that is when the real adventure begins. 🙂

  141.  #141Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 4:52 am

    Indigo and Victoria…
    Yes,,, I have noticed, looking back at some of my longer relationships since Rori…
    I become like what Victoria mentioned…
    I want to “force feed the bird”
    and of course THIS NEVER works…
    I can lean back but get agitated and pull back when the man can’t give me what I want
    exactly when I want it…
    I am practicing being a warm invitation
    when Spirit does contact me… and
    Like you mentioned Indigo…
    When the feelings of longing, missing, pushing
    come over me
    Try and sit with these feelings
    examine them
    and let them pass over
    without acting on them…
    sometimes I CAN do this…

  142.  #142Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 5:05 am

    Thank you for your wonderful comment about Spirit not wanting to cage me either…
    I say i’m ready for the added intimacy of going to his house…
    but really… I have had MY freedom for 25 years…
    I do push away when things start moving too quickly.
    Ahhh… the gentle rhythms of life and love…

  143.  #143Labbit on December 16, 2014 at 5:07 am

    Azure I think it’s so cool that you are working with Natalina, I see such positive things happening for you! One thing that has helped me a ton was learning how to reframe my mindset from waiting on a man to decide about me to being a higher level of difficulty, being a Prize Catch. It has given me so much strength and made my vibe wayyyyyy more appealing to men. It seems like you are already working towards this but I just want to encourage you to keep heading in this direction…the hardest part is taking responsibility for my own actions, which sometimes means walking away from a man or telling him no, which feels tough until you do it.

    The more you can put yourself first (as you are doing!) the more men will be drawn to you. They want a challenge, they want something they need to catch, and they don’t want it to be easy or for a woman to give herself over. Think of it like a Christmas toy versus something he has to save up for. As a kid, if a little boy got a toy he didn’t ask for on Christmas morning, he’d play with it for maybe 5 minutes. Then he’d be bored of it and cast it aside. Now imagine there’s a toy he REALLY wants. His parents make him save up his allowance for it…maybe he gets a job mowing lawns or something to help pay for it. He saves up for the toy for 3 months or longer, every week going to the store to press his nose up against the window and look at that toy — his prize. Finally, on the day he has enough saved he goes into the store and buys it. It becomes his most treasured toy, one he won’t let anyone else play with, and one he loves forever.

    You are that prize Azure. Never let yourself think you are anything less. One day a man is going to walk by you (if he hasn’t already!), feel that click and make it his mission to win YOU.

  144.  #144Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 5:08 am

    Indigo #137
    Yay!!! 3 weeks of leaning back!!
    I can feel your softness on the outside..
    and the Siren strength on the inside!!

  145.  #145Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 5:15 am

    Ahhh… Labbitt,
    thank you thank you for taking your time and sharing your wonderful insights into acting and becoming THE PRIZE…
    I do have a couple of questions on what you wrote me but I have been up all night working on some work projects and need to go to bed.
    Talk later lovely Sirens.

  146.  #146Mistea1 on December 16, 2014 at 5:51 am

    Labbit, Victoria, Sophie, Riley, and Dominique from about 98-110 or so.

    I’m gonna ramble here and hopefully make some sense of this issue that I can live with.
    I finally caught on to the manipulation issue, a jockeying for domination in a relationship that has no basis in reality. You are right Labbit, this means nothing and I even had a dream about it, we’re as so much dust blowing the in the wind.

    But in reality I am left with some very uncomfortable feelings and it is interferring with my ability to focus on my bell practice and life. The director had to start over twice because of me. Embarrassing!

    I feel that the time I spent on feeling my internal state mess and all and the weeping was helpful. It cleared the air so to speak. I felt my breathing clear up and I could finally take a complete deep breath.

    At the next service I stayed up in the loft where I discovered that the sound was much better. There was no interference from those sitting next to me. I decided to step into the cauldren so to speak because MusicTd played in the loft at the beginning and end of the service. I held onto my energy and sat sideways on the bench and either closed my eyes or looked at the stained glass windows. I decided I would pretend it was when I first started going there and I didn’t know who was playing. This worked out very well. I fell into the beauty of the last piece and only got startled out of it when he spoke to me. I made an acknowledgement sound in return and turned to the side again.

    Over the last couple of days I’ve been trying to find a way I can be at peace with this situation and how I can be loving kindness and not be torn up by the manipulation stuff. I know things like that are the only way some people know how to communicate with people they care about (that’s it, of course).

    I thank Riley for this and her poignant description of her family life, which I can relate to a lot.

    I found some information on the Muse,ancient Greek mythology I think. These were beings who acted like catalysts for creativity in many areas, mostly the arts, music, singing, dancing, painting etc. Nowadays they seem to exist to herald a new beginning, a promise of transformation in the forms of Universal Man, Magical Child, Wizard, Messiah, King, Sage, Martial Arts Master etc.

    The problem comes when we lose the power present in the Archetype as we project it unto a worldly version. I.E. Like me needing validation, approval etc from MusicTd when what I really want is to be him. (thanks ladies). We need to integrate the archetype within ourselves to use it’s power in the world.

    As an aside, I wonder how many women have married men because they wanted to be what the man is. I recall in the movie about Beethoven when he and his female assistant got into a heated discussion. She said, “So you think I love you?’ His reply was, “No, you want to be me.” Just an interesting aside and probably only appropo to me. 🙂

    I think I can be comfortable with treating this situation in a more dispassionate way by thinking of MusicTd as my Muse. I know the disasterous consequences of projecting this archetype onto a human being so I have learned a good lesson there. In addition, he hasn’t stepped up to the plate on a project of mine so it is another layer of separation.

    I can deeply listen to the beauty, expression, and passion in the music and not have layers of human stuff around it. I am CDing now and can get my human needs attended to in other ways.

    A story about Music Td. He was playing this complicated Bach piece and reading an article propped up on the stand at the same time.

    What am I learning? Loving kindness practice, focus, technique, discipline, expression, beauty, perception and energy.
    Any comments gratefully accepted.

  147.  #147Veronica on December 16, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Happy Birthday Indigo : ) I had noticed that you kept mentioning your birthday and I wasn’t sure why that was. Then you shared on here how you love to feel special on your birthday, how it means so much to you – I felt ah! enjoyment at your stating this. I hope these turns you make to honour yourself are continued to be accompanied with kind gentleness and that the love relationship you want moves closer to you.

  148.  #148Mandy on December 16, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Dominique in particular, and Sirens…I have to share a special something…

    I had an epiphany upon making my super yummy morning cup of mocha this morning.

    See, I feel REALLY good when I see that my man feels good and happy and content because of me, which can be an issue with leaning back, because I’m a giver and a pleaser by nature, it makes me jubilant.

    Here’s the cool part – The universe has seemed to prepare me for a difficult situation, with J being in pain now all of a sudden. I realized he won’t always be able to cater to my intimate needs with back pain, and I can live with that and still love him. I realized that if this is the man I love and will be living with, I will be dealing with this, and that’s okay.


    Do you hear that? The universe prepared me for hard times!!! All that tricky dealing with our intimacy issues, actually was for something! I can LIVE without it for so long and let him heal and feel good!
    Now that I know what his arousal triggers are I’m even more confident! I realize also, I have been a mirror to him, and him to me.

    Holy smokes!!! Dominique…I feel I’m loving my journey…abstinence on my part is actually a form of GIVING TO HIM by LEANING BACK I feel, and in a WEIRD way…it feels a little good to know if I let him be, it is actually taking care of him 🙂

    J has allowed me to go to my “SirenCD” for those needs as well if he can’t meet them right at the moment because there’s no deal-breaker there for him, he thinks it would be good for me. And when hat happens, he usually ends up wanting to have a crack at me too, lol, because someone else is!

    So, I realize it was the feeling of the responsibility I felt to make him feel good and take care of him by giving him lots of nice sex that was bugging me, because that’s how I usually love my beloved man and how I feel my erotic power and feminine confidence, but the responsibility to please him was killing me because it wasn’t being allowed, so I felt desperate because I didn’t have my magic silver bullet to use to take care of him and make sure he feels good, I felt one of my best assets was being disarmed. Now I feel no responsibility because he’s hurting and it’s just NOT my fault.

    NOT that I’m happy he’s hurting mind you…just…different perspective 🙂

    Wow this is kinda cool! Aw, I love my J so much 🙂

    Also, my “SirenCD” as I will call her now, is back from her trip so maybe she and I can chat – it’s awesome…like I said she’s a sex therapist and she studies male pickup artist tactics, lol! The tactics used by men to make us think they are all that, in a very non-authentic way, lol…I realized with Rori, her methods are to do 100% with authenticity, nothing’s being made up when us Sirens go out and flash a cute smile to a cute stranger, so that’s where we have the power, we’re not pretending to have any “game”, or “salting the tip jar” by having a guy stand next to us on purpose, lol…

    Cool stuff. I am so interested in using my woman’s intuition now too, after hearing Rori talk about it yesterday. 🙂

  149.  #149Dominique on December 16, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Mandy – SO wonderful reading this. Thank you for sharing it. Happy dance over here. 🙂

    Love to you.


  150.  #150Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Veronica… hugggsss…
    Lovely Siren…
    so good to feel your gentle presence here on Siren Island.
    How are you?

  151.  #151Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 10:57 am

    Thank you dearest Veronica for your beautiful birthday wish, your post made me feel very warm, like I had someone rooting for me 🙂


  152.  #152IamHis on December 16, 2014 at 10:59 am

    I feel a bit ignored on the blog. That feels sad . Attention would feel good. I feel afraid of being judged.

    I listened in to the webcast last night and it felt amazing. It was so curious though. It felt very difficult to concentrate after listening for an hour & I found myself judging a woman for talking too much. I judged her for being a know it all & for not truly listening while I was sitting there struggling to listen!

    I feel curious as to when the decision has to be made on whether or not you want to be a Rori Rayed coach.

  153.  #153Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Labbit 138,

    Thank you for this. As always, I really enjoy your grasp of leaning back.

    It’s funny you mention timelines, I’ve had this sense, for a while now, that all of this is going to take years to come right, to reveal itself. I just need to leave it alone to sort itself out, to forget about it, if you will. I know that my perfect person will reveal himself all in good time, and that it will take a relatively long time from now. I just have this deep down sense in my intuition. I am fine with that. I have absolute faith that things will work out when they’re meant to, and not before.

  154.  #154IamHis on December 16, 2014 at 11:07 am

    I feel embarrassed about how much I wrote about Foreign Guy. I want to clarify that we are not dating, but I do believe he is one of my teachers with a message or two for me.

    One thing he has definitely brought to my attention is my deep need for non-sexual physical touch. It feels best when it is constant and offered freely.

    I feel so curious as to what to do to provide for myself financially. I want to get paid for offering and sharing my talents to the world. I want to be respected and cherished for my femininity, I don’t want to feel like I constantly have to hide or suppress my emotions in order to feel and be successful in business.

    I feel embarrassed because I still struggle with time management.

  155.  #155Azure Blu on December 16, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Darling Siren…
    I feel I understand your time issues…
    i know Many people who struggle with time management…
    I am one!!! :->
    I just stayed up all night working on 2 projects because I couldn’t manage my time –
    Why do i have to make it sooo painful??
    I am seeing how loving me… peeling the unworthy,
    self loathing
    not deserving
    layers away
    one by one…
    seems to be helping with this… little by little.

    Love to you and Chin up lovely IAH
    you are growing and blossoming like a beautiful flower!

  156.  #156Millie on December 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Labbit 107— what great imagery!!!! Thank you so much for sharing that!!

  157.  #157prplpsn28 on December 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    It’s been a while since I was last on here. Not sure where to start. I do want to say Happy Birthday to Indigo. I hope it was awesome.

    I still hear from H periodically. The last time was wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving and then the next day he asked what I did. He said he drove by the restaurant my family and I went to last year and it reminded him of me. I simply said we didn’t go there this year. I dropped out of the conversation. I’ve been doing really good with no contact. It’s been all him. And I will respond but I keep it short and simple. I don’t go into what I’ve been up to.

    A few months ago, right after H and I broke up, I was out with my best friend and we ran into a male friend of hers, I’ll call him C. Very nice and handsome guy. My friend said that he is a great guy and that I should date him. Well at that point I wasn’t ready. Well the wknd before Thanksgiving my brother and I went out and because the usual hangout was closed that night we decided to try a place down the street. We walk in and low and behold C is bartending. We talked quite a bit. Exchanged #’s. And he not only texted me but he actually called me and we talked for quite a while. He has texted and called several times and we have been out a few times. It started Thanksgiving day. My kids were with their dad so he invited me to his house with his family. Maybe that was too soon? What do you all think? It went well. I’ve been leaning back. He has contacted me. He indicated he wants to see me this wknd. I haven’t heard from him since Sunday tho. So idk. Another thing too is that he’s 9 1/2 yrs younger then me. Which at our age isn’t bad i guess. He said the age difference doesn’t bother him at all. It’s just a # and I don’t look my age. Aww…that was sweet.

    Also, H texted me Sunday night and said “been on my mind to say hi. Hope that’s ok”. Again I kept the conversation brief. Not sure what that was about.

  158.  #158Mistea1 on December 16, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    Dear Siren, Your presence here is gratefully noted by me and I’m sure others. I remember addressing you earlier on how you have helped me. Keep on keeping on.
    I like the book Getting Things Done. It was very helpful to me. The authors’ last name was Allen.

  159.  #159Mistea1 on December 16, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Sirens especially Victoria,

    I have thought of some mischieviousness after relfecting on 144. I’m steamed that MusicTd even dares to think he can use his lame manipulations to try and get domination over an imaginary relationship that is nothing. Course since there is nothing going on there is nothing to get steamed about.

    I talked to a woman today who has been in some of the choruses that MusicTd had directed. When I asked her to tell me little bit about him. She promptly said, “He has a massive ego and massive temper.
    confirming what I thought.

    I have a possibly new Cd who is x-military, trial attorney and his own share of massive ego. How fun that would be to have them meet given that they both have developed/kept a little emotional tie in to me. OK I know I have to get a life.

  160.  #160Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    Hey Purple!

    Thank you so much for the birthday wish 🙂

    I just wanted to say I think you are doing so well with H. I think how you are handling it is the way to go. Short and sweet, and he doesn’t need to know any detail about what you’ve been up to.

    I also feel so thrilled for you that you are dating a hot new younger man! He sounds lovely

  161.  #161IamHis on December 16, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    Azure Blu & Mistea1, thank you so so much for acknowledgoing me & making me feel seen.

    I always feel surprised when women on here say that feeling messages make their men angry or “don’t work.”

    I’ve realized that true feeling messages are not verbs.

    I have wanted to say that I feel abandoned, ignored. Those were and I guess still are big ones for me. But they blame & accuse someone of doing the abandoning or ignoring.

    So what am I really feeling underneath those accusatory verbs?

    I struggle to find the words.

    When I feel abandoned, I really feel incredibly scared & trembly & lonely & just…lost.

    Those words don’t accuse anyone.

    When I feel ignored, I really feel scared & shaky & panicky & lonely. Again, these words don’t accuse anyone.

  162.  #162IamHis on December 16, 2014 at 7:13 pm

    I feel so scared of my “bad” feelings because of who they attract. I struggle with loving and nuturing and accepting my body. I have stretchedd out ligaments in my shoulders, back problems, and I still would like to get tested for diabetes.

    I feel scared of not being able to attract truly healthy men. I want to be physically healthy myself, but it feels extremely difficult & expensive to get physically healthy.

  163.  #163Sophie on December 16, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Thank you Dominique – it feels very warm and comforting to hear your kind words. Wow, you see change in me? Really?!! ha ha It’s funny it feels so difficult to see it in myself

    lovetodance – thank you for your loving words too – how are you and things in your life?

    Iamhis – I feel sorry you felt ignored…it feels so difficult to keep up with what’s going on in everyone’s lives sometimes! I love your last postings where you were able to identify which were not the proper feelings (or were making him wrong feelings). I always find underneath everything (even anger usually) I am feel scared and vulnerable and all of those things. Often I don’t know how to share these feelings because I don’t want to come across as needy – if anyone has any thoughts on that, i’d feel really grateful to hear them.

    Purple – I feel so (this might sound ridiculous and I hope not patronising) but proud of the way that you have managed the H situation. I just feel like ‘go you!’ every-time I read about it…You have managed to completely change the dynamic around and I feel real admiration for you. New CD sounds nice…I have dated men with quite big age differences (younger) …I see it work for some people but also, like with any man, if I were to do it again, I would want to be cautious, not invest too soon, really find out some more about how we work together and whether he can step up, things like that – Sometimes it brought up some weird stuff for me like where I felt motherly, or knew more which then made the masculine/feminine dynamic tricky, or was at a different place in my life to him as to what I wanted and sometimes it felt good for my confidence and other times it didn’t…It felt fun though and I love experimenting 🙂

    Rileytheowl – I love your description of your tree. I can identify. I can turn my mood around too by connecting with the outdoors.

    Labbit – your story about the xmas tree felt warm and cosy to read and very romantic. How lovely. I felt amused when you said it was mostly your decorations ha ha I am so possessive about my decorations – I want my decorations. I could justify by saying that they mostly belonged to my gran and so I feel emotionally attached to them but there’s some things I just find it really hard to compromise on like I want my decorations ha ha. I feel happy that you were able to have 95% your decorations 🙂 It brought back memories of last xmas with B and actually the tree thing was not so bad. He allowed me to have my decorations – yes! And we had two angels – a white skinned angel for me and a black skinned angel for him. I felt happy about that – I felt happy to have a multi-cultured xmas tree 🙂 Some memories with B are not so bad – that feels nice to know.

    Mistea – you are doing so well at feeling your way through this situation…and taking from it all the positives that can help you heal and grow – and learning about yourself…and finding ways to manage the emotions. Ah it’s all such good stuff 🙂

  164.  #164lovetodance on December 16, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    iamhis 159

    i feel moved by your acute observation[s] about what are the feelings underneath our statements…

    ‘I’ve realized that true feeling messages are not verbs……

    I have wanted to say that I feel abandoned, ignored. Those were and I guess still are big ones for me. But they blame & accuse someone of doing the abandoning or ignoring.

    So what am I really feeling underneath those accusatory verbs?

    I struggle to find the words.

    When I feel abandoned, I really feel incredibly scared & trembly & lonely & just…lost.

    Those words don’t accuse anyone.

    When I feel ignored, I really feel scared & shaky & panicky & lonely. Again, these words don’t accuse anyone.’…..

    thank you for the beautiful way of expressing the difference…thank you for sharing this and your feelings….i resonate with the feeling of struggle to really get to the actual feelings….to not project on others my fear, or loss or lostness….but to feel what i am feeling without making others wrong…or accusing them….

    geting to the bottom of how i feel , taking out the middleman so to speak….haha….is an artform….one worth the work….

    thank you again sweet siren

  165.  #165Sophie on December 16, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    I am feeling okay today. And tomorrow I travel to the beach, hooray! I feel so happy to be leaving the city!

    I took a trip out of the city yesterday to the ancient temples and that shifted my emotions because they were beautiful (astounding actually) but also in wonderful environments. I took myself away from all the tourists and found woodlands, and lakes, and monkeys and fresh air and felt so much more connected to myself.

    One of my brothers paid for the trip into my account as a gift and then, when I got back, I had an email for a payment out of my account for a web domain I didn’t even know i owned, for almost the exact same money. ha ha now I’m laughing, but at the time I cried. You couldn’t make it up! What you focus on grows right?! No more focusing on how I don’t have enough money! I always have my needs (financial included) met. My other brother transferred me some money to help me, and a link to the support department to try and get the payment back from the company. My brothers are being my safety pod! I’m just using them as an example, really, of how men will try to fix things for you where they can. I feel so grateful for them – (((my brothers))) (((and men)))

  166.  #166lovetodance on December 16, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    hello sophie!

    so good to hear from you….i admire you reaching out ….acknowledging so many…and i know it does feel difficult to connect and keep up with all the wonderful siren voices here…

    that is probably why i don’t do it that often but want each and everyone to know how i take in what you say and care about what is happening….

    it is surreal and real all at the same time to be feeling connections with women who are faceless to me yet i feel each and everyone’s hearts and yearnings ….triumphs, disappointments
    pains and excitement…

    i so look forward to reading this blog….and i feel like i am learning from each and every one of you….thank you from the bottom of my heart….

    i am feeling quite raw these days….one amazing man friend has passed….another wonderful friend is very very very sick….

    it is cold and rainy….and the holidays…i love alot of it and yet i am allowing in more and more the desire to have connections with warm loving sexy men….and if it turned out to be just one… be it….i am saying

    i am practicing staying open and yet i need to not over focus or fixate on that…because somehow my naturalness and authenticity gets effected…plus i hav e a huge need to enjoy myself with or without the company of men…i have a huge need to enjoy my life no matter whats happening!

    so my siren friends ….stay warm and cozy in these cold nites….or just cozy wherever your clime may be….

    and good nite sweet sophie…thanks for asking about me…it makes me feel good…..

  167.  #167Sophie on December 16, 2014 at 9:05 pm


    Thank you for your update. I feel sad for your struggles, that sounds hard but happy for the energy I feel around your desires to be open to that one, sexy man you so deserve 🙂 And to having fun whether there’s a man or not. I’d drink (an appeltiser :)) to that!!!!

    Good night to you xxx

  168.  #168Veronica on December 16, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Azure! Hello to you dear sweet Azure x x x I feel welcomed by your words – that feels so good : ) I’m doing good – I’m slowly becoming more healthier in my eating and exercising more but then also practicing kindness to myself when I’m not so healthy. I had finished my internet access before I had planned to and so have to wait before my small teeny weeny budget allows for internetting. When free wifi was available I could read the posts here – amazing conversations happening : )It’s now been 5 months since Funny and I had our first date – I feel really good about myself in this relationship. I express my desires without worrying how it will be received. I am slowly healing to feel comfortable to just express my desire. I do feel scared sometimes that things will fall apart but that fear has been upended many times.

    I notice how you’re slowly building good-for-you interactions by choosing men who offer what’s in line with what you need. I really like that x Choosing men who are able to give you what you need and then to choose of those men who you want to be with – in a way it seems so nourishing to yourself, also giving a chance for your siren self to love and be loved in a romantic relationship that just generously allows that.

  169.  #169Veronica on December 16, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    Indigo – 149 – : ) I had been reading keenly what you’ve been saying here on the blog. Your need to disconnect from facebook had me mulling that idea seriously for quite a while. I relished the idea of not existing so explicitly on facebook – there was something extremely attractive about having that kind of privacy (there are no photos of myself on fb). Although it wasn’t quite my choice, my internetting had been very limited and the amount of time I found myself with felt overwhelming. At some point I felt disconnected from what was happening online and later on I realized that it was mostly rooted in a wanting more of myself – although even this feels vague and a little off the mark in terms of describing the sentiment I’ve been feeling.

    I do think that it takes a lot of courage to believe in and act according to your desire for a committed relationship when the interaction with D seems so close to that – close enough that one could carry on with almost enough happening.

    I have this big smile reading how you enjoyed my birthday wish for you – I can’t quite describe how I feel good having known how you value your birthday and being able to give that in a small amount to you. —But also I’m sitting with this opening up of how many ways there are that people (myself included) want to feel special and how those desires remain left unsaid.

  170.  #170Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 10:30 pm

    IamHis 159,

    I really hope this doesn’t trigger you, but I really encourage you to look at these feelings of feeling ignored and abandoned. These are feelings we really have to work out and fill and soothe and work through for ourselves. It is too heavy a burden to put this on someone else. Even confessing feelings like lonely and lost and scared, I really urge you to proceed with caution in voicing these if you are hoping that the other person will “make them better” for you in any way – even if it is not accusing, if there is any kind of agenda or attachment to outcome it will come across as needy and most likely make the other person feel like backing away.

    I empathise with the way you are feeling, I’ve been there, but feel compelled to urge you to look for the answers to these feelings within yourself rather than in others.

  171.  #171Indigo on December 16, 2014 at 10:52 pm

    Veronica 167,

    Re: Facebook, “wanting more of myself”, yes, this is exactly part of what I was feeling. I felt almost envious of how much of myself, my time, my energy, I was giving up because of Facebook. I wanted it back. I wanted it for other things. What you say about privacy… it was that too. I didn’t like the idea that people I hadn’t explicitly invited into my life could find out all sorts of things about me, even if it was just what I looked like. Where I live it’s a relatively small community, and a gossipy one, so I just wanted to reclaim some mystery, or really privacy more accurately.

    Thank you again. I cannot believe it has only been 5 months for you and Funny, it feels much longer! x

  172.  #172Labbit on December 17, 2014 at 5:02 am

    144 Mistea1 — Yes, yes! It is biological for us to look for a good provider, a leader, a responsible successful (however we define success, it is different for each of us) man. Where it crosses the line to obsession is when we lose ourselves or give ourselves away, asking a man or anyone else to make US feel whole. All of the things we need to survive on a daily basis already live inside of us. And with our permission to ourselves we can thrive!

    I don’t know if it’s as much about becoming him as it is realizing his characteristics that you feel the most longing for, and giving them to yourself instead. But perhaps that’s just semantics — however it works for you, go with it.

  173.  #173Labbit on December 17, 2014 at 5:11 am

    150 IamHis — As you are growing from old ways to new ways of being, it’s natural that you’ll feel unsteady and unsure at times. Right now if I were you I’d find that place inside where your confidence lives and give that part of you as much as love as possible. These feelings of lack that you have are natural…but you don’t have to feed them, don’t have to let them grow. I would try to starve them instead or put them in a room in your mind as Dominique sometimes talks about…give them a cookie so they aren’t so loud.

    Confidence is a tricky word to me because it implies both belief in yourself and the belief of those around you that you are strong. It all starts inside of you though, and it’s important to have because it gives you the strength to walk down your path with faith, even if you make detours or hit bumps along the way. This belief, this inner assurance that you are taking the right steps and living your life right — not perfectly, but right for you — is where everything begins. Fake it til you make it if you need to! I know I do…there are days when I wake up feeling so unsure, so shaky and worried and now I have a routine I like to go through as I’m getting ready that helps me build up my confidence for the day. It really does give me a different feeling inside, my body behaves differently, and I’m sure others can feel it too.

  174.  #174Labbit on December 17, 2014 at 5:16 am

    155 prplpsn28 — How wonderful that this new man is pursuing you! I wouldn’t worry that you haven’t heard from him yet this week…it’s very normal at the beginning to hear from a man once a week or maybe even once every two weeks. It’s up to you how you want to proceed…I usually follow the guideline that if a man wants to have a date with me, he needs to reach out to plan it 3 days ahead of time. If he waits too long I have other plans. Other than that I just focus on being my charming self. 🙂

    The age difference wouldn’t mean a thing to me. It would be all about the emotional maturity. And kudos to you for staying strong with H.

  175.  #175Labbit on December 17, 2014 at 5:19 am

    161 Sophie — Totally, I have some memories with former flames that with time and space have become like sweet little movies in my head, maybe a little nicer than the reality was but still nice to have. 🙂

  176.  #176Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 5:28 am

    Labbit 170,
    Yikes, you are right. Be becoming him I don’t mean I want to lose myself in him. I want the ability to play that or similar instrument (or whatever talent) myself. I want the technique, focus, discipline, etc. I see in him for me.
    Truthfully, I didn’t realize how much time it takes to develop this. I do a martial art practice too. I never have taken the time with it that they suggest one should. In this regard I am so wishy,washy. It’s been very instructive for me to listen to him practice and hear him repeat a phrase over and over maybe 20 or more times to get it into muscle memory. Not only in one practice but in subsequent practices as well. He still does this after 50 years of playing. His legatissimo is like watching/hearing liquid silver flow.

    That’s what Beethoven meant when he replied to his female apprentice. She worked so hard on her own compositions to try and get close to his standards.
    Thanks for making this clear.

  177.  #177Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 5:42 am

    Mistea 174,
    There is an interesting book by Malcoml Gladwell, called Outliers, which talks about what makes people proficient and an excellence outlier. In his opinion it is a combination of 10,000 hours (aprox. 10 years) or practice + being at the right time at the right place.

    Other than that, I so long to meet someone I admire to the point where I want to imitate him. Has not happened to me ever, so, there are certain downsides to having a really big ego, lol.

  178.  #178Indigo on December 17, 2014 at 5:59 am

    Victoria 175,

    I am reading a book at the moment called “Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World that Can’t Stop Talking” and the author also talks about Malcolm Gladwell’s book and the concept of Deliberate Practice (and advances a strong argument for why this is best done in solitude). Anyway, just found it so interesting that you mentioned it.

    Mistea, personally I think it’s wonderful when we find people with habits or behaviours that we admire that we want to emulate, and to try to own these and develop these for ourselves, rather than putting the person on a pedestal.

  179.  #179Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 6:10 am

    I highly recommend Malcols Gladwell’s book, among other things it is a very funny and interesting read.
    It gave me a lot of answers to questions I kind of knew I had, but could not quite formulate myself.
    By the way, I have seen the book you are talking about being advertised, but never thought of buying it since I have the exact opposite “problem” – I am very very extrovert! Some day I think I will write a book called The Power of Learning to Shut up Once in a While, but before I write that, I need to learn to do it!

  180.  #180Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 6:39 am

    OK another comment on 170 and 174.
    I realize that “I can’t endure pleasure and beauty and that I actually retreat” from it. As you can imagine this causes all kinds of problems especially in creativity.

    When I played piano and flute in high school I loved them so much and practiced hours a day just like MusicTd. My teachers were very supportive.

    Then I had a big fight with my father about my transportation to lessons and group practices. He played the violin and maybe I got better than him? We never played anything together either. I would have loved that. So I threw the flute at him and said “sell it.” The band director actually came to my house to find out what was going on. I one of the best though youngest flute players he had.

    When I wrote about the martial art I practice I realized this is what I did. Ouch. I found this one practice in New Mexico. I recognized it as the the best thing for me that I have ever found. What did I do? I spent the next 9 years forcing myself to go to practice and practicing as little as I could.

    When I published my stories I stopped after 5 because I couldn’t endure the pleasure and beauty involved in them.

    When I started my EFT practice I got international acclaim and let the whole thing slip through my fingers as so much dried sand.

    Even with MusicTd, though it may not be practical for us to get together, he is the most beautiful person interiorly I have ever encountered and I am fleeing as fast as I can from the pleasure and beauty of this. Oh my.

    I am stunned right now and will have sit with this one for a while to reflect on it. Thanks for being the catalyst, Labbit.

  181.  #181Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 7:13 am

    Yes, I’ve read Gladwell’s book. Even if I practiced 10 hours a day for the next 10 years I wouldn’t be nearly 25% as good. Oh, I forgot the 5000 hours I’ve already put in earlier. Does that count? The other thing I have put in my path is that I clutter it up with too many interests. A good way to avoid pleasure and beauty if I do say so myself.

    (((( IamHis ))))) may find this helpful.
    Creative Live had a good webinar by Ann Rea about developing focus. We can have many interests but it may be best to develop and focus on those that also serve society and the community. In other words what value can we offer others?

    Focus on the higher ideal and make it meaningful and impactful. Make a list of all your projects, get rid of 3 things. What gives me energy? What is meaningful? Then what furthers me in my main project? Just a brief overview here.

  182.  #182Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 7:52 am

    Victoria 175,
    Your comment is interesting. I’m older, and this is the first time I have ever met anyone like this. I feel this may be a once, maybe twice in a lifetime occurrance.

    Upon re-reading my comments, and you may pick up on this too, this is like looking in a mirror. I realize now that these are all qualities I already have but are either undeveloped or suppressed. MusicTd has taken a portion of and honed them to a high degree of expertise. I can’t help but notice them.

  183.  #183Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 7:55 am

    then may be he is the one?

  184.  #184lovetodance on December 17, 2014 at 9:25 am

    i realized something deep in the night last night…
    woke up thinking about unzipping my heart to men i am relating to and un-zipping my heart to all that i relate to…..

    i realized i need to unzip my precious heart to myself on a regular basis…

    i know consciously that i am a beautiful deserving and rich human…

    putting the focus on practicing un-zipping with others outwardly….i realized

    so clearly i need to stay in un-zipping to myself mode

    feels so healing….healing and so safe and so right….
    unzipping to me zone…..

    this is where my focus needs to be now….i know we say this….know this over and over about the need, the reality of loving ourselves first..but last nite

    in a huge somatic way….it felt so healing to literally feel and imaginatively hold my precious self, being with such tenderness, protection and care…

    it took pressure off of me to do anything except keep tenderly looking feeling with beautiful sweet wounded and loving heart…

  185.  #185Azure Blu on December 17, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Ohhhhh… lovetodance #182
    this is sooo beautiful… and such a warm, gentle, tender reminder for me…
    Yes, unzip my heart for me!!
    Yes, unzip my heart for ME!!!
    thank you for sharing!!

  186.  #186lovetodance on December 17, 2014 at 11:18 am

    azure…you always make me feel so seen and heard….what a gift you are…

  187.  #187Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Victoria!!! Aargh, what a thing to say! Maybe he is the one. ( I’m not mad at you but am very sensitive to this right now.) I can see you smiling mischieviously!!!

    I met a woman yesterday who said she was in some of the choirs he directed. When I asked what she thought of him she replied with no hesitation. “Massive ego, massive temper.”

    Ok, tell me as a person with a big ego yourself. Are you ever a prisoner of your ego when you are being challenged? Will your ego needs let you drop a cherished thought of being one up when it doesn’t suit you but you have to be one up?

  188.  #188Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Love to dance,
    Ah yes, very important to remember to unzip our hearts to ourselves first. One of my meditation teachers always used to say. “Nonviolence to the self is the first priority.”

    Today, I opened my heart to myself by going to a noon organ concert at a church in town. It is among the top 20 organs in the country a Bach style Beckerath 17th century one. It has a great clear sound. I met the organist last summer. Today I asked her if she gives lessons and yes she does. The pipes are both in front of and in back of the organist for a great surround sound effect. She looked directly at me and said, “you’d better do it now.”

    One of the things I enjoy is drag racing. I love pushing all that horsepower down the track. Playing an organ is like that; slamming your fingers and feet to the floor and hearing the roar of the sounds flying you off to somewhere glorious. I’ve heard MusicTd do the same thing. It is addictive. Heart opening? yes indeed-ee!

  189.  #189Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    I did not understand the last question, please rephrase.
    As to being a prisoner of the ego: sometimes it is good to have a big one and sometimes to have a small one. Best is if you could have one which is scalable like a telescope …
    So what were you asking?

  190.  #190Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    I have to share something else with you:
    From my observation huge ego and temper are not unattractive in men. Many women find these very attractive on a subconcsious level. So maybe what the other woman said was not a criticism at all.

  191.  #191Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    What I mean is do you ever let your ego get in the way of doing what you know is best for you? Does your ego ever carry you away so that you do or say something that is not in your best interest in the long run but you have to have your way? Hope this is more clear. thanks

    re; 190 My view on that is “How dare he try to dominate our non-relationship!” Who the h*** does he think he is? You may be right. On an unconscious level I must find massive ego and temper verry sexy! Sigh.

  192.  #192Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    The short answer to your question is “no”.
    The long answer is, again, sometimes a big ego which is pretty much the same as huge self confidence is very useful. Othertimes it is not, especially when it interferes with forgiveness.

  193.  #193Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    One other comment on the ego/temper issue. The next day after we missed our timing for our part of the performance by 5 minutes he interrupted our practice by turning on a small light in the front and then paced back and forth for about 5 minutes and threw black energy balls our way. I was all indignant but I noticed a number of the other women fluttering about making little comments about what we did wrong. It seemed they were almost pleased that he noticed us in that way. Thanks, I get it now.

  194.  #194Mistea1 on December 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Victoria 192
    Thanks for that reply. I didn’t see that early on. He seemed like a very shy little boy to me. He would run away or even disociate if I asked him a question. Very strange. Now the attract/reject is rather constant. Like he is defending himself and is out to dominate me at all costs for no reason I can see. We don’t have a relationship as such.

    There is one thing I didn’t consider. I had told him early on my Wild Horses story and that I considered myself ‘outside of the corral’.

    Then I joined the handbell choir. This meant in his very traditional mind that I was now in his ‘stable’ as he is the head of the Music Department. So maybe this is why I am getting ignored, punished, very subtly of course. I have to be brought into line. A thought.

  195.  #195Mandy on December 17, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    Thanks Dominique 🙂

    Glad Sophie’s feeling better. I so empathize when a woman is feeling upset. Especially around her birthday.

    IAmHis – Hearing you, and feeling I want to pay attention…I feel as a contributing member of this blog, I hear you and see you, even though I may not always write to you…I have been a bit awkward lately because of trying to keep on board with the blog rules…using feeling messages….

    I felt the the cast was amazing too, IAmHis..…very insightful I felt too, I also just like to hear Rori’s voice because it is soothing sort of like a relaxation recording I’ve used before…

    I’ll admit, sometimes I talk a whole lot and maybe it throws some people off (I’m talking a lot right now and I realize that, lol, just have SO much to say…and just feel so excited to get the words out…I feel very very good when I talk to people…and explain…and share…that’s why it feels SO easy to share here on this blog with you….to me…)

    I know feeling embarrassed…ohhh…do I ever…! I was a painfully shy child and teenager and everything felt embarrassing…my first period was ad doozy, lol. It happens but luckily I feel afterwards that usually no one actually minds as much as I do about what I did to feel embarrassed…when I feel that way…
    Embarrassment feels lonely like hiding forever and not being able to come out of connect again…I hate feeling embarrassed, but one time I felt numb to every feeling except numbness and fear of numbness, and I got very frightened, and so when I have a yucky feeling I go, I love my feelings though, because it feels worse to feel numb…that’s me though…just works for me…hopefully that can help show a process in me which may be insightful…

    Also – the body issues – I struggle too, being very very carbohydrate/sugar resistant (Family history of diabetes) and prone to ligament/tendon pain and injury, due to a hyper-mobility issue, I feel awkward and clumsy at times, and still have body problem areas even after losing 50 lbs, but…I do still very much feel genuinely we are still beautiful Sirens, even though we can lose sight of it sometimes, and our feelings that are bad may come from nasty voices (as Rori says) in our head…but I genuinely also feel, luckily, men don’t fall in love with us because of our looks we were born with, but our feelings…

    Granted, cleaning oneself up feels GREAT…wouldn’t you agree? Nice hot bath? Putting on makeup? Doing your toenails? Perfume? 🙂 I loves me some Halle Berry Jasmine perfume..and coconut vanilla…nummy…I love doing girly things like getting my hair and nails done and showing my character!

    It can be SO hard to overcome your issues, but it feels SO good to overcome them…like HA, I beat you! 🙂 I still personally feel REALLY good about choosing to be healthy and take care of myself…and a few doctors have told me I’ve done myself a huge favor losing all that extra poundage because of the health issues I now have to deal with, i.e., living without a Thyroid, and also my aches and pains and weak tendons, family history of heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes and cancer. It feels great to eat clean and keep moving or at least break a sweat every day. I like running a lot too, to music. 🙂

    As a last note on this post…going back to the Rori cast recently…I feel I haven’t noticed until Rori’s cast my my intuition is right on. RIGHT on…I have had so much…clear vision..that I haven’t stopped to give myself credit for…I get that I’ll be having little struggles and things will change as they usually do…but I almost feel like my intuition equals simple “elementary” as Sherlock Holmes would say, or just logically figuring the percentage of something happening as high. It feels mental, but it is a feeling in my gut too that comes with it. The feeling in my gut is far more important obviously than the logic that I feel in my brain.

    Oh….Happy birthday ladies, there seems to be lots of them in December. Makes me want to think of fireplaces and warm baths and the hot tub and chocolate coffee in a hot cup in my hands and in my tummy…being a little bit rosy from being outside…what a Sireny thought and a giggly one too…*chuckles*….

    Well, I feel that was a good riff…sort of 🙂 Just trying to keep practicing and interact 🙂 Now I’m going to listen to I want a Hippopotamus for Xmas because it makes me laugh 🙂

  196.  #196Indigo on December 17, 2014 at 9:59 pm


    Re: ego/temper. D has quite a prominent ego and temper, and I agree these are not necessarily unattractive. For me though, it’s not the ego or the temper itself which I find attractive, I just love people who are strong-willed. So I would find someone who was soft-spoken and unassuming, yet strong-willed, very attractive as well. I just love people who know their own mind, who have the courage of their convictions.

    What I have found though is that the ego/temper, in D’s case at least, is a tricky thing. It is something that, if indulged, can become a monster. If you let such a person walk all over you, you will have a problem with them for life. I’ve found I have to be very strong myself – not hard or harsh – soft, gentle, kind, but with strong boundaries. I will not let him push me around. Just because I love his passion and strong will, does not mean he gets to bully me or talk to me any old how. This is when I get the best out of him. Personally I feel men like this have to learn to channel their energy into productive/loving/protective pursuits. They need to realize that they cannot get away with sub-par treatment. I say all this because I feel this personality type can be wonderful in many ways, but has a tendency towards dominating or bullying, and they need to realize this is not how you treat a woman.

  197.  #197Indigo on December 17, 2014 at 10:06 pm


    D has asked me out on a date, of sorts. On Sunday night he phoned me for my birthday and said he had a present he wanted to give me. Yesterday he messaged me and said he wanted to take me to a favourite movie, as a belated birthday treat. Now, in the last 3 weeks, I have not leaned forward at all. He asked me which day would be best for me, and I said Friday. He tried to get me to agree to last night, or tonight, but I didn’t budge (thank you Labbit and RileytheOwl). I already had my day planned out yesterday, and tonight I am going to see a flat.

    So, it feels quite good. I’m not reading anything into it, other than he probably misses me. It just felt good that it all came from him, even though the attempt was a little awkward, but that was kind of sweet in its own way. It felt good to just receive.

  198.  #198Victoria on December 17, 2014 at 11:57 pm

    I listened to the recording of Rori’s teleclass yesterday. To both of them. This is so fascinating. I might want to be a coach, even though I have never considered being a dating/relationship coach. I do a lot of advising (not coaching) in my actuall job and I have a strong tendency to give advice, which I will probably have to work on (euphemis for “red rid off”). But it was so beautiful and interesting to listen!

  199.  #199Victoria on December 18, 2014 at 12:06 am

    Indigo and Mistea,
    My father is the archetypal man with a massive ego and massive temper. He has also always drank heavily. Accidentally, he was a tall and very handsome man, and women were basically chasing him wherever he went… Even my girlfriends at school found him super attractive… So I have seen how it works for a very long time, and, I deliberately stay away from this type of men.
    I like even tempered men, who would never raise their voice (had way too much shouting at as a child), are stable and kind of slow. I think I just became alergic to bad/short temper and can not tolerate this at all… Now, the people who have no massive temper have other strange qualities… but then nobody is perfect.

  200.  #200Emerson on December 18, 2014 at 12:09 am

    I feel uninterested in my matches online. I feel empty and preoccupied. I’m having some issues at work and it’s taking over my psyche, not able to enjoy or feel interested in any of my “matches”…who are not very good matches anyway.

    I feel frustrated and I feel like falling to the floor in a heap.

  201.  #201Victoria on December 18, 2014 at 2:04 am

    @ Indigo 197,
    You are my hero! You are doing this so well! I do not think I could have resisted the short notice offers, and I definetely could not postpone seeking the man I love until Friday, if I could see him Tuesday. You level of self-control is amazing!

  202.  #202Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 3:27 am

    Victoria 201,

    Bear in mind that at this stage, I have “walked on”. I am leaning back, and the leaning back is starting to feel far more natural and easy to me now. More than that, although I love him dearly, I have had years of experience of what it does when I lean forward and/or compromise my wants/needs/boundaries, and it’s not good. I love him with all my heart, but as far as I’m concerned he needs to put in the effort and I need to honour myself or nothing happens at all. Took me a while to get to this point but the view is way better from here 🙂

  203.  #203Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 4:10 am

    Indigo and Victoria
    Appreciate the discussion on ego/temper. Because of the ego/temper I have something to push back about I guess. My father too, was extremely handsome but didn’t drink. We yelled at each other a lot. Hmm maybe that’s the only way I can relate to men.

    I like the distinction about the boundaries. There is no reason to be harsh or pushy about this. I get indignant, rude and aggressive myself.

    I can see now where I can do this and be calm and firm and not let him push me around. I do like the Muse idea for me. I can listen to the depth of his music and not be concerned or even take notice of any other things going on around him.

    Well, I am going on my lunch date today with what I hope is a fairly normal person. I look forward to normal after 7 months of this other stuff.

  204.  #204lovetodance on December 18, 2014 at 4:11 am

    indigo 197 and 202

    i feel such integrity in you indigo

    thank you so much for sharing this unfolding

    your words make so much sense to me and i feel the soft , strong jumping off this virtual page….

    such a siren you be!

  205.  #205lovetodance on December 18, 2014 at 4:14 am


    understood…..sometimes the floor, the ground, the earth is the most nutritious place to be….

    take your time….let your psyche heal now….[opps advice giving]…i mean that is what i do when over and under whelmed…

    sending you a big hug!

  206.  #206lovetodance on December 18, 2014 at 4:19 am

    Riley the owl

    siren poet…

    ahhhhh thank you so much for your poetry

    i felt in the forest with you ….on a dark and cold and starry night…

    keep writing siren…so tremendously picturesque and feeling….

    and do you know….mary oliver and her poem of leaving….ahhhhhh i feel your poem so resonant with hers…

    thank you for sharing this space with all of us….and many blessings on continuing to find and create a living arrangement that supports and nourishes your lovely spirit and soul!

  207.  #207Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 4:29 am

    Indigo 202
    Yes, for me the leaning back was very valuable. It gave me that psychological distance I needed to observe my behavior and how it was affecting the situation.

    I’m also glad that this site gave me the opportunity to define some of my boundaries and non-negotiables. I feel the most important one is; not being able to step up to the plate. It is a tangible that I can use for both friends and lovers.

    The lean back helps me apply the brakes to myself. It doesn’t need to happen yesterday.

    Another is to give some space to the other so they can decide what they want to do. This calms me down and I don’t feel so desparate to bring about a conclusion I guess. Plus it makes things more interesting.

    An amusing aside, My younger male friend and I were standing talking outside. We must have mesmerized each other and just looked. Finally he said, “I’m getting cold. I have to go in.” I told him that he could go any time, I was pausing to find out if he had anything more to say. It was a cute moment and seemed as if he had to ask permission to leave my presence.

  208.  #208Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 4:50 am

    Emerson 200

    Ohh, I so hear you about the on line stuff. Where do these guys think that they can get away with a picture of themselves in an old undershirt. Puh-leeze!
    One even said, ‘what you see is what you get.’ My verbal reply to that was, ‘Well, you don’t get me!’

    Having said all that I do have a lunch date today with one and starting an email conversation with an extremely defensive trial attorney. I enjoy the sparring. I need to learn to be soft and firm and not be rude and aggressive. I figure it is good practice.

    I feel discouraged that this is not the one I want right now but am coming to the conclusion that that one is most likely not viable anyway. It is painful but becoming less so every day I lean back.

    Perhaps the hunt will improve after the holidays, one can only hope. Best of luck to you.

  209.  #209Victoria on December 18, 2014 at 5:07 am

    I am so happy for your lunch date!
    I am keeping my fingers crossed for him to turn up nice/normal/totally wonderful.
    Attorneis are very nice but I never managed to date one long term, the ones I have met a bit too refined for me. I like to have some raw macsulinity thrown in the mix… Damn it, I am so fixed on F., I only find people who are like him attractive… I need to fix myself of on this a little bit.
    Bon chance, Mistea!

  210.  #210Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 5:26 am

    lovetodance 204,

    Thank you so much. Integrity is so important to me. It is so important to me to be true to both myself and others, which is why I suppose I value strength and kindness. It feels so nice to have this community to share all this with.

  211.  #211Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 7:40 am

    197 Indigo — Oooh, the plot thickens. I love how level-headed you’re remaining about all of this…stay right in the head space where you are. I know my mind would be throwing me lots of flights of fancy in your shoes right now…the more coy you can stay the more his intrigue will go. Wishing you a lovely get-together with D.

  212.  #212Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 7:47 am

    200 Emerson — Whenever I online date, I make myself be a lot more open to people than I would offline. Much more unzippering of my heart going on. Because I hear you, sometimes it can get overwhelming while simultaneously being underwhelming if you know what I mean! A lot of times I find the ‘meh’ feeling starts inside of me…usually when I’ve felt this meh feeling in the past it’s because I’m not loving on myself very much in the moments…in fact I’m often judging myself quite harshly.

    It’s very hard to judge personalities online. I’ve found that people have more walls up if they’re serious about finding someone, usually because they’ve been burned before. So it becomes a tricky balance for me of keeping my head on straight, opening myself up more than I normally would, and being as light-hearted and carefree as I can be. When I’ve started off that way I’ve found men will relax and meet me in these positive mindsets. 🙂 It’s very challenging to get the ball rolling but once you do I think online dating will become much more fun for you!

    There was one man who was quite insistent about meeting up with me. His profile photo was ugly, for lack of a better term. Just not attractive to me at all. He looked kind of like a caveman. But his messages were so funny, and he sounded intriguing, so I figured, what the hell? I dropped my agenda of finding the one and met up with him for drinks. And guess what? The HANDSOMEST man walked in for our date. So completely a 180 from the photo that I thought I was being secretly taped for some kind of shock TV show, I am not even kidding. I mean, he looked vaguely like his photo…but 1000 times better. The man just takes awful photos. I couldn’t believe my luck — I’m sure many other women felt the same way as I did, and here I’d snagged this totally awesome fun, funny, gentleman who was HOT because I’d just given him a chance.

  213.  #213Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 7:58 am

    Ugh. After a few weeks of feeling really on top of my game, super confident and like the universe is making everything go my way, the last two days I’ve felt like it’s all come crashing down. Not to shaky or panicky levels thank goodness, but just this nagging feeling of ick I can’t quite shake.

    This seems to happen to me…I’ll feel amazing for a few weeks but it’s like I can’t keep it up, at some point I’ll get triggered and then it causes me to sink…and I feel like I sink even further down from where I started. I’ve been reading a lot of materials about being a Prize Catch and I think I might need to give it a rest because it’s gone from being helpful to triggering me in a big way. I found an article a few days ago about what it does to a man when a woman is too eager, and it hit home with me. I matched a lot of what the ‘too eager’ woman is in the article. It was very helpful, but I found my mind churning on it over and over. And then what happened? In my life, I started manifesting being this too eager woman. There’s a fitness instructor friend of mine that I have a crush on…nothing will happen there but he’s been great CD practice for me, and I found myself leaning forward with him. To the point where he was super standoffish yesterday and it felt awkward being around him. That felt icky. And then with TenderCD, we were making our Christmas plans and I found myself all eager beaver with him too. He just gave me a funny look and asked if something was up, but I could NOT BELIEVE IT. I backed off and excused myself and I’ve been beating myself up for the past two days. I know it’s nothing…he’s probably already forgotten about it, but I feel like a dummy.

  214.  #214Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 8:24 am

    Then of course when I feel unsteady like this, it triggers my urge to give big-time. LOL. Oh, I just feel like such a mess right now! It’s funny and awful at the same time. I feel like I’m balancing spinners with rotating plates on top, and each one is a trigger, and there are too many of them right now!! Whew, just need to relax and breathe. Thank goodness for this place, where I can come and vent safely without bringing this all into my life.

  215.  #215Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 8:39 am

    ((((Labbit))) #213-14
    Darling Siren… You are so wise and share so much of your sage wisdom on Siren Island…
    I know you know all this but
    these words are meant as gentle, tender support…

    I have found, after making profound changes, or when another layer of protective gear is about to fall off…
    I get this buzzing, tingly, confused feeling…
    Hard to just SIT in it…
    Hard to give ME all the gentle love and understanding
    I sooo need…
    Maybe this is a gentle reminder to
    open your palms
    Breath deeply
    and LET GO…
    Some of the things you have been reading
    for me are about tooooo much CONTROL
    Different from Rori’s tools
    of continually simply asking
    What are my feelings and
    what is important to me – right now..
    right at this very moment…
    love to you…

  216.  #216Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 8:51 am

    Labbit 212
    I like your take on online dating. I can do the lean back easily because I can imagine MusicTd in my pocket even though he is not in reality. The other thing I found very helpful is that they are not super responsive to the looks as I thought they would be. It is our mindset and magnetism. I have found that to be true for me. So now I clean myself up normally and let it be. Trial attorney must be really serious. His walls are like boulders!

    I’m still chuckling a bit at 207 where my young friend seemed to need my permission for him to leave.

    Labbit I feel that your posts to me have been positively inspirational. You know exactly what to say and how to say it. I wonder if you would feel helped if you wrote a post to me as if I were you. Feeling statements to the Labbit here. the ick feeling, how you delt with your urge to give. It’s just a suggestion of another way we can describe how we help ourselves. I feel you already know what to do as I remember you have already described to me!

  217.  #217Liquid Light on December 18, 2014 at 9:00 am

    I got a text the other day from someone I had a first date with a couple weeks ago. He invited me over for dinner and chardonnay for the same night. Ha. I texted back thanks but I already have plans. I was kinda shocked that he would invite me over to his home after only one date. This is the same man who sidled up next to me in the booth when we had dinner on our first date. Anyway, it was a big turnoff.

    But then got a message from him yesterday -bracing myself for another lame date offer – but he invited me to dinner at a really nice restaurant, one of my favorites. I was tempted to say No because I’m tired, have been going out a lot and working hard, and because of his aggression. But then I rethought it, I typically write men off way to easily so maybe I should give him a second chance. OK, especially because of where he’s taking me;)

  218.  #218Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 9:09 am

    LL – Yes to second chances…
    How fast the being authentic and leaning back works!!

    I agree with you… 2nd date at the guys house (especially if he is agressive)
    Does NOT happen. Mostly I wait 4-5 dates
    course each is different… I have waited 2 months…

    Ahhhh… lovely Siren… you are rockin’ the online dating scene!!

  219.  #219Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 9:09 am

    Labbit 213,

    Don’t worry, dear siren. I am the same way. There’s a flow to all of this that I can almost predict. I’ll be going along feeling all calm and strong and confident, and then BAM! I’ll have a day which knocks me sideways with feelings I can’t resolve or explain. During these times, it really helps me to remember what Dominique says about there being no steps backwards, only maybe side-to-side. So you leaned forward, so you were all eager beaver… so what? Don’t beat yourself up, please, whatever you do. Shower the gentleness on yourself that you would show to a best friend, maybe even more kindness. Let it go. Tomorrow will be better.

    I agree with Azure Blu about the material… I am careful with what I read and what I take to heart. I think it’s lovely to have tools and guidelines that resonate with you, and best practices for dealing with men… but don’t forget to just be yourself, to be spontaneous and ask what your heart is telling you. There are no mistakes here, only what’s best for you.

  220.  #220Emerson on December 18, 2014 at 9:10 am

    lovetodance, mistea1 and Labbit,
    thank you for the feedback and comments!
    Yes,, online is very challenging to gauge someone….
    In fact my meeting with CuteCityCD is very similar to the story you described Labbit, ….his photos would never have caught my eye if i was skimming through the profiles….
    However he was persistent and smart and funny, so I agreed to meet him. It was a pleasant surprise how attracted I was to him and his warm energy. It didn’t last, and I actually feel a little piney for him even now, but still goes to show that yes online dating can be challenging and we have to remain open…

    I go through phases, one day I feel open and optimistic, the next day I feel like the voice inside is saying “to heck with it!!! Waste of time!”

  221.  #221Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 9:14 am

    If it is any consolation, I had one of those moments today. D messaged me, and the conversation turned a bit funny and playful, and I second-guessed myself… and I felt the urge to *explain* what I meant by something I said, found myself worrying about his feelings. But I stopped myself. I just figuratively released my hands and went and did something else. I realized I was just having one of those “flights of fancy” that you were talking about Labbit, where I get into his business. So, I went and did something else!

  222.  #222Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Indigo #219
    Ahhhh… your gentle, soothing vibrations
    Coming through cyber space…

    No mistakes
    No steps backwards

    for me… all the leaning back. learning to listen.
    soft on the outside
    strong on the inside.
    in the end…
    if I can’t be myself (the self I LOVE and am becoming everyday)
    Then he just might NOT be
    MY Mr. Right…

  223.  #223Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Mistea #216
    I love what you mentioned to Labbit!
    That feels like Such a good idea…

    “Labbit I feel that your posts to me have been positively inspirational.
    You know exactly what to say and how to say it.
    I wonder if you would feel helped
    if you wrote a post to me as if I were you.
    Feeling statements to the Labbit here.”

  224.  #224Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Indigo #197 & 202
    Great job leaning back for 3 weeks!!!
    If feels to me like he is stretching his masculine self
    like all learning…It is awkward at first…
    But if we give them a chance
    some men
    can grow those muscles pretty big!! :-))

    I LUV what you wrote here:
    “Took me a while to get to this point but
    the view is way better from here :)”

  225.  #225Femininewoman on December 18, 2014 at 11:05 am

    Dearest Labbit I so totally disagree with what it seems to me like your nasty voice just wrote there. What I am reading about is a woman whose awareness has skyrocketed. You are so aware and have become your best fan so much so that you seem to be floating above and looking at yourself.

    No such thing as feeling like a dummy.

  226.  #226Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 11:48 am

    220 Emerson — Yes, yes! I get it, the emotional toll of meeting or chatting with man after man who doesn’t do it for you…it leaves you wondering if someone that you DO click with, who IS amazing will ever come along. But they do…they always do…and you can’t force it. I think it’s perfectly normal for your emotions to bounce from high to low. It’s not worth getting upset with yourself over it, you know?

    As much as you can treat online dating like a game. It’s very much about not learning to take it personally, as difficult as I realize that is. There are SO many people looking for love online (and people pretending to look for love, people looking for other things, and so on). That’s good; it shows so much opportunity exists! But there’s also that constant tinge of “hmm, this guy seems great but I wonder who’s right around the corner?”

    Use it for practice. Drop any agenda you have. Every time you chat with a guy think about your own vibe — how do I feel right now? Can I make myself feel better? Hmm, this guy makes me feel insecure…I wonder why that is. What will happen with time is that you’ll really get your feet under you, and suddenly meeting a guy or seeing him for a few dates won’t seem like a big deal anymore. Instead “Oh this guy could be the one!!!!” it will be “Hey, dinner tonight…cool. I wonder what this guy will be like” And that makes your vibe so damn attractive you have no idea. What will happen is that the more you play, the more relaxed and confident you will become. You’ll start to notice patterns among all men…and patterns in the men you interact with. You’re going to feel smarter and less unsure. You’re going to feel chill and attractive, and men are going to want to spend lots of time with you and treat you like a Goddess! So focus on THAT and forget about trying to make anything happen with any specific guy.

    Don’t worry about messing it up either, because there is ALWAYS another guy right around the corner. It’s practice, it’s awesome practice, and you might accidentally fall into something great when you aren’t even looking for it. Don’t put pressure on yourself or timelines, because sometimes there will be tons of men coming at you and other times there may not be any. It has nothing to do with you. It’s like ocean waves…

  227.  #227Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 11:53 am

    220 Emerson — One more thing. It’s not a waste of time…not one bit of a waste of time. It’s such an incredible investment in YOU.

    I like this analogy, which I think comes from Mike Dooley…as you’re CDing and practicing, think of yourself as a pilot turning a jumbo jet around. It just takes time to turn our lives around because we’re asking the universe to go in a new direction. And the universe is efficient, but not always as quick as we’d like. 🙂 You’d never hear a pilot give up halfway through the turn and say “Huh, I guess it’s not working.” NO. They just keep softly turning that yoke until the plane is facing the right direction.

    Onwards Siren. You’re making the turn…towards something awesome.

  228.  #228Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    225 FW — OHHHHHHH!!!! If I could jump through the computer screen right now and give you a HUGE ****(((((hug))))))**** I would because this makes me feel SO GOOD. Thank you for the compliment. I am grinning ear to ear right now.

  229.  #229Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    215 Azure — Yes, you are so right…I need to relax, I feel all this nervous energy inside…breathe…open my hands…thank you for the warm support Siren.

    216 Mistea1 — LOL, his walls are like boulders, ha. Thank you for the suggestion as well…it is very hard for me to back away from my personal space and look at things objectively. I’ve learned with time and made small steps forward here, but I tend to be much tougher on myself than I would ever be on anyone else. Thanks for the idea…something new to try that sounds wonderful…

    219 Indigo — Thank you for this. 🙂 It’s nice to know that I am not the only person who faces this, gets smacked sideways like this. I love the paraphrase from Domique you’ve used…I will tuck this away. And to your 221, I loooovvveeee how you reacted to the flight of fancy. 🙂 Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it is not…your mind is dancing right now and it’s alright to let it dance a bit so long as it stays on the beat…does not skip ahead. What a beautiful dance it is.

  230.  #230Labbit on December 18, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    217 Liquid Light — Like you are thinking, I would give this man a second chance. Men are somewhat conditioned to be lazy these days because of how much women chase…we hurt ourselves in this way. When he realized that you are not so easily persuaded he stepped back into his gentleman’s shoes…good sign. Go you!!!

  231.  #231Liquid Light on December 18, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    Well, ladies, it looks like I got downgraded again. LOL After I accepted, he changed the restaurant invite to a different restaurant but also a good one. Then when I said yes to that, he changed it to a pizza place. Ughh. I declined. I’m exhausted and didn’t really want to go anyway. But what is up with that?? Yuck!

  232.  #232Liquid Light on December 18, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    His aggressiveness on the first date and now this weirdness = major turnoff! Am I off base here ladies? What do you think?

  233.  #233Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    LL 232
    I feel that people are who they are. Do they try to get by and if you don’t allow it will they revert back to Mr. nice guy with respect? Hmm. I feel a persons default should be Mr. nice guy with respect. If they don’t present with the best they have why bother. Just saying!

  234.  #234Mistea1 on December 18, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    Victoria, Emerson et. al.

    Well, the first lunch date I’ve had in xx years occurred today. I will say that I did buy a box of frozen donuts afterward and ate one frozen and all before I got home!

    Actually the guy was very nice, polite, paid for lunch, shared the conversation, showed me some of his photography work etc. he pays attention to his health too which is in common with me. For my part I paid attention to him and practiced RR techniques.

    This resulted him in leaning forward the whole time and getting all sparkly eyed towards the end.

    So what’s not to like you ask? The big turnoff for me was the 3rd divorce in 2013 with the wife on top of the roof saying he was trying to kill her. He spent 2 days in jail on a charge which turned out to be untrue. She still lives around here. Granted he seems a calm type and I appreciate the honesty.
    It seems a stretch that he could be so dense that he didn’t catch on to the fact that she was crazy.

    I felt very uncomfortable at the end when he got into what he was looking for. I’m hoping to find someone who wants to show me around the area and some enjoyable talk, then see what happens.

    He wants a relationship but doesn’t think he’s marriage material any more. No kidding. Does that meant he wants it for free?

    Thanks to bioidentical hormones I have a libido the size of a mack truck and no ones getting that for free. Well, except for MusicTd and so far he’s not asking. sigh. Well, may be not. He would have to step up to the plate on my project and supply a ring from Tiffanys.

    How am I doing Victoria? Is my self-confidence up where it should be? I was the Queen of all the lands letting the guy show me all his wares. I don’t know when I’ve had such a satifying time.

    Thanks ladies for all the super examples and feeling statements.

  235.  #235Azure Blu on December 18, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    You are soooo right…
    For me I would delete him from my rotation and NEVER
    answer any contact again…
    So wrong to continue changing the venue!!!
    LL… Next…

  236.  #236Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    Liquid Light 231,

    What did you say when he downgraded the restaurants? Did you use feeling messages and “I don’t want” statements? Just thinking this seems like a great opportunity to practice.

  237.  #237Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Mistea1 235,

    Mentioning his third divorce and false criminal charge on the first date… not very suave. Yet I feel sorry for men sometimes because this strikes me as just a bit clueless and his way of trying to be honest and upfront. I think guys get even more nervous than we do.

    I’ve had awkward first dates with guys who, once they relaxed and loosened up a bit, turned out to be very nice guys and enjoyable company. Just my opinion, you might want to think about giving this one another shot.

  238.  #238Indigo on December 18, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Azure Blu 224,

    Thank you 🙂 I’m a firm believer in doing things at your own pace and taking your own time to get to where you need to go. I finally realized that was something I needed to give to both myself and him. Something happened and it all just clicked into place for me. No more pushing, no more leaning forward, no more anything… I’m putting me first. Maybe he will grow those muscles and maybe he won’t! I do like the effort he’s been putting in and I’m just receiving it and not reading anything into it.

    Thanks for all the support xx

  239.  #239Turquoise on December 18, 2014 at 8:26 pm

    Thanks April Rose, I’ll go look for it! 🙂

    I have a bad cold and feel pretty miserable. I had to come home from work early yesterday. Pianoman brought me some medicine and checked on me today. Tomorrow we are going to see a big light display for my birthday. Hope I’m healthier!

  240.  #240Victoria on December 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    You are doing great and I love you!
    Your lunch date made my day! Brava!

  241.  #241Beloved on December 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    So tonight I attended a POF mixer, mostly because it was held at a place that has been a second home to me for 14 years. It’s a really special place and I knew I would have fun there regardless.
    So, a la Dr. Pat Allen, I chose not to drink alcohol or even eat sugar before going.
    I played and danced and hooped, I met the facilitator, and nobody else spoke to me. They were all clumped together at a table or at the bar, all drinking.
    I leaned back, and wondered who would feel attracted to me, who would feel magnetized to me….hmmm…
    ran the cool sand over my bare feet, enjoyed being in my body.
    A friend of mine introduced me to a vendor there, who I had seen last night and especially noticed because he looks so much like an ex from 20 years ago. I immediately felt comfortable with him, and next thing I know we are touching and holding pinkies and talking, all feeling very natural and comfortable.
    So, this vendor guy, followed me around all night.
    I got a lot of practice.
    I initially felt very open and warm and comfortable with him, then as he kept talking, I started feeling numb and shut down. It felt good to have him next to me, his knee touching mine, and I felt kind of like…whoa…I need space (which I did say).

    I felt numb for the rest of the evening, but stayed engaged with this guy, moving away and back when I needed to. He asked me to help him take some stuff to his car, and I told him I didn’t feel comfortable doing that. It didn’t feel right. I don’t know why. I didn’t feel scared or mistrustful…actually, truth be told, I didn’t want to fall into a ‘role’ and get too comfortable and familiar too quickly.
    So, I gave him my number.
    I still feel numb.

    Oh, and also sort of bewildered by my dad. I came home at 1:30 this morning, which woke him up, and he stopped me as I was leaving tonight, telling me he wasn’t going to “put up with this”. I am laughing now, because I was just staring at him, feeling disbelief at how he was speaking to me. I know he saw the look on my face and I could tell he felt rattled when he really grokked that he wasn’t speaking to a child who was afraid of him. I told him to close the door before he went to sleep, problem solved. Because he is practically deaf and it was the light that woke him up.

    OMG it feels funny to feel free of some of that old childhood stuff. I heard someone recently talking about trying to fix something that they didn’t break and was broken long before they came along (a relationship) and that started resonating within my mind. I’ve been trying to fix something that was broken before I came along and isn’t mine to fix. A better relationship with my parents isn’t all on me, and I don’t see any interest or effort on their part to improve anything.

    I feel freer, like I’m letting myself off the hook. It’s not all on me.

  242.  #242Victoria on December 18, 2014 at 11:51 pm

    I am wondering, why did you ask me whether your self-confidence is where it should be?
    I guess we are just talking to ourselves here, to our alter egos, which just happen to take the voice of another, unknown woman, someone who lives accross the ocean, but that is us, I mean me, talking to me.
    Speaking of which, I am starting to fear that I personally have too much self confidence… That I think I know more than I actually know. Anyhow, it gets a bit complicated.
    Also, I had gread pangs of missing F. last night. I felt such longing and love for him… I was thinking of calling him or writing him a love letter… I did not, sat with the feeling, tried to love my love and my longing, hold them, kiss them, caress them and put them to sleep. Read what Labbit wrote and felt a bit better that even she goes through this type of hardships… we all do. Then, I took care of my own s* satisfaction. Twice. Helped me sleep tight and wake up much more relaxed this morning. Then, I went to the smimming pool and swam for 50 minutes before work. I feel no pangs and not missing anyone. Wow.

  243.  #243Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 5:29 am

    Indigo 237
    Thanks for the support. I couldn’t fault the guy for anything else. It was such a pleasure to be with an adult who responded normally to me. He even emailed me with a great suggestion for a next date. Then emailed me again with an invite to a fun evening of music and dinner between Christmas and New Year, some old timey jug band which I like too. I will accept.

  244.  #244Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 6:01 am

    Victoria 241
    We have all discussed self confidence, ego etc.
    I’m normally a self confident person but this thing with MusicTd threw me for a loop such that I wondered where my self confidence went or if I even ever had any at all.
    I guess it was more of a rhetorical question. I don’t mean to make you the boss of me. Now that would be lacking in self confidence! You seem to be able to put a lot of this into words I can understand right now.

    I feel that a term of too much self confidence or feeling like we know more that we actually know is good because it shows that we are starting to be aware. It was so hard at the beginning to simply pause and feel. Now I can feel that in addition to the way I look at things that there must be another perspective or more which I may not know about. This expands my world. There is more than myself here and I don’t feel so alone and isolated.

    Like you I came home that evening and went through my usual pangs of wishing it was MusicTd. This time however, it was slightly tempered with my amused memory of the slightly stunned look on the new guys face when he saw me in person. I could get used to this.

    So this time around instead of trying to impress them with my wit, intelligence or effort like I used to do, I relaxed and invited him to show me what he had. Many thanks to Rori’s tools!

    Oops, have to run will finish this thought later.

  245.  #245Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 7:03 am

    Beloved, so many thanks for your story about your dad. I resonate so much with that sentiment… trying to fix something that isn’t yours to fix. Trying to fix something that wasn’t broken by you.

    My feelings run deep like a swirling twirling well, or like a toilet bowl that has just been flushed. If I stay with these feelings this habit of mine goes much deeper than just “fixing” my relationships right now. Like you, I get caught up in the drama of fixing my parents, my biological father, the relationship between my daughters and their dad, my grandparents, my siblings…. ooooooohhhh…. I’ve been in “fix it” mode forever, since I can remember.

    And yes, If I look way way back, I can’t find the spot where I broke it all. Why have I taken on the responsibility of mending??

    I keep getting prompts, text messages or text pictures, from a man who has made claims that he wants to date me. When I get a text from him, which I ignore, I feel so angry.

    Last night I had to do the shake my body and sit with myself surrounding this irritation.
    At first I want to blame him: I feel so irritated. So frustrated. YOU said you want to date me but all you’re doing is texting me. And if I respond to your stupid text messages then all you will continue to do is text me. I might like YOU, but I don’t like being treated this way. I don’t like feeling like I need to explain to a fifty year old man that texting a woman is not the way to get her attention. Ugh ugh ugh!!

    Then I really felt it: honestly, I feel helpless. Honestly I feel scared. I feel helpless because I feel the only way that I can get what I really want is if I actually Go After It. If I explain it. If I manipulate it. If I DO something. And more than ever, DOING something… makes me feel icky.
    I feel scared. If I leave it alone, if I concentrate on myself, on my icky feelings surrounding being texted and how childish that is to me, if I just continue to lean back and not explain how I want him to act, then….. I’ll lose him. I won’t have a guy to date.
    I feel scared because I don’t know how to make my outcome different if I don’t DO something.

  246.  #246Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 7:08 am

    I feel horrible. I feel alone. I feel hopeless. I feel scared because leaning back is not my natural instinct.

    And then I feel temper tantrum like, I don’t wanna learn something new. I don’t wanna change my old ways. I don’t wanna feel this suffering. I don’t wanna dig deep down inside of me and really see what’s going on down there.

    I’d rather focus on the man and blame him, or try to change him, or try to get him to do right in order to make me happy. I’d rather make him responsible for me being happy. Cause….

    There’s so much pain down there inside of me. There’s so much hurt. There are so many mistakes and so many times that I forgot to love myself and hug myself and tell myself that it’s okay.

    There’s this hungry, crying little girl down there who needs me to fill her up and honestly, I’m scared to death that I’m not enough. I’m scared to death that if I let her out, if I let her speak, if I allow her to voice her sorrow…. what if it never stops. What If i can’t help her?

    I feel so much these days. Everything is triggering me.

  247.  #247lovetodance on December 19, 2014 at 7:43 am


    hearing you
    feeling you

    keep hugging you, keep hearing her, keep loving you

    even in the midst of all that is dredged up
    to see, to excavate, to let be shown the light of day
    bravo to feeling

    bravo to letting this pass to and doing wonderful soul satisfying somethings for YOU, when you can, when you are ready…beautifull YOU….

    thank you for sharing your honesty, vunerability and raw-nessy in these moments…

    Big Hug..To YOU

  248.  #248Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 7:45 am

    I feel yelling at everybody else: to treat me that way I want to be treated!!!

    But I’m not hearing it myself.

    I feel terrified that actually I’M the one who doesn’t know how to treat me the way I want to be treated. I feel terrified because I have always focused on others. On treating others right, on getting others to treat me right, etc..

    I feel new and shaky and like Bambi walking on ice for the very first time. Slippy and Fally. I feel scared to get out there and skate on the ice because I know I’ll fall flat on my face.

    I feel resistance to admit this: I don’t know how to treat me with love and tenderness and attentiveness and care and grace and love and love and love. I don’t know how….

    I’ve been so busy trying to teach other people how to treat me. No wonder it’s all a confused mess.

    I feel I’m at square one just right now. I want to ask someone else… “Hey, how should I treat myself????”

    I want someone else to show me how.


  249.  #249Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 7:48 am

    thank you Love to Dance.

    tearing up right now. somehow, those hugs really help!!!

  250.  #250Indigo on December 19, 2014 at 8:02 am

    Andrea 245,


    I was there, for such a long time, and I still am on some days. Being mad at the world for not treating me the way I want to be treated.

    And what I realized is, you’re perfectly right. It starts with the way you treat you. I’ve found the answer to this one is in my feelings, honouring exactly how I feel in this moment, and acting on it. If I *feel* like replying to that guy who keeps texting me, I do. If I don’t, I don’t. If I *feel* like crafting a feeling message enlightening a guy on how I feel and how I want to be treated, I do. If I just couldn’t be bothered, I don’t. If I feel like going to this party, or being around those people, I do, and if I don’t, I don’t, or I stay for a while and honour myself I feel it’s time to go. It’s that little voice inside you which tells you what’s best for you, and listening to her can be incredibly freeing. Are you perhaps still hung up on what you think you “should” do? On what other people think?

    The saddest part is that most other people are just doing the best they can. They’re grappling with their own stuff and doing their best. Doesn’t mean I have to rescue them or stick around, but it does help me to have compassion on them. The thought that I really can’t control them helps too. People are going to do what they’re going to do, and usually it’s not even about you.

    I think I’m finally at the point where I’m getting to be ok with this lack of control. I believe my perfect relationship will come, I have faith that this will happen. It just will.

  251.  #251Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 9:42 am

    I feel you doing so well, even in all the messiness. What fun to be figuring all this out now while you are still up for a fabulous relationship.
    I feel that having a good cry can clear the air then have a good nights sleep. Hugs to you my love.

  252.  #252Liquid Light on December 19, 2014 at 9:57 am

    Andrea, I have someone like that too. I’m getting frustrated too with all the texting and no actual dates. I’m trying to keep reminding myself to “let it go” and detach from the outcome. If I push it in anyway, I can’t trust that he’s that into it/me so that’s all I feel I can do and leave it up to him to ask me to get together or not. Its getting easier to detach because I’m getting a bit tired of it, maybe he’s just not that into me and is giving me the ‘ol run around. Not sure what’s going on so am trying to just hang in there until we meet or until I just get bored with it. Hang in there, girl. This isn’t easy especially around the holidays.


  253.  #253Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Indigo and Mistea thank you.
    Yes, scraping away the layers, part of it is that I’m still hung up on what I should do, and part of it is that I’m fine tuning my sensors so that I’m noticing when I fall back on “what I’ve always just done.”

    That default pattern no longer works and it’s that uphill climb or that total resistance to relaxing into what WILL work for me now. I feel safe in the default, but I also feel gross, lazy, icky, harmed in the default as well.

    So many triggers:
    #1: I’m losing weight. I’m losing weight pretty rapidly. I think it’s because I’m finally ready to lose weight, but with each pound that comes off, there is another layer of outer protective shell that is being stripped away. I’m needing to deal with emotions that I’ve stuffed away for such a long time.

    #2: Just that heady realization that all of the cd’s I attracted into my life with my old energy, just simply aren’t cutting it anymore. Not one of them makes me feel like showing up for them. Not one of them is resonating with me anymore. And that feels lonely, like, I could just give up this steady climb and settle for one or two of them to at least feel like I have a companion. Although it would be a false feeling. Not one of my old cd’s could companion with me anymore. I attracted them into my life when I was a different woman.

    #3. The daughter’s father came over last night to tell us that he is giving up, that he’s leaving our city and heading back to his old home across the country. He let on that he has a woman there who is willing to pay his plane fare home. He is sorry that he couldn’t make it in our city, sorry that he couldn’t keep up with the phone bill of the phone he bought for my daughter, sorry…
    Then he asked me to drive him back to the house he’s staying at now. On the drive there he started crying in my truck, telling me how he knows he’s such a failure.
    And I fell back into default mode telling him that no, he’s not a failure, that our kids are resilient, that our daughter didn’t need that new iphone, that it’s okay that he can’t keep his promises, that it’s okay that he’s needing to go back home, that maybe we can come visit him out there when he’s stable.
    And I watched my daughters apologize for wanting… I watched them denounce their real desires in order to make him feel better.

    And later he called me and thanked me for being so understanding.

    And I honestly felt like stabbing myself!!!!!

    I wanted to shout to him you f***ing bastard!! How dare you!! Yes! You are a failure, a big huge failure and I hate you for running away again. I hate you for leaving me with your huge mess to clean up, for breaking our daughter’s hearts yet again, for making promises that you could never keep, for being such a loser and such a child and needing some other woman to pay your air fare.

    And I hate myself for having chosen you all those years ago. I hate myself that I picked you to be my partner in child bearing. I hate myself that I picked you for the father of our daughters. I hate myself. What was wrong with me??? And I hate myself that I might still make these horrible gastly stupid mistakes if I allow myself to choose again. I hate myself that I can’t trust myself to pick a good partner. I hate myself that you get to run off back to numb land and I am still here, trying to be strong for these two little girls and for myself. And it’s hard. And I’m alone. And……

    So, layer after layer. I am proud of myself today simply because I lay on my bed, put my arms around myself and let myself wail into my own chest. Then I went to the gym and left the rest of it on the treadmill.

    And later I just want to hold my daughters and tell them it’s okay to want things. It’s okay to want a daddy who is there for you. It’s okay to expect that when he says he can do certain things, that he will. We don’t need to apologize for his short comings. We don’t need to feel guilty because he can’t hold up his end of the bargain. Your desires are okay to have.

    (I just don’t know what to tell them about what to do when those desires, though promised to them, can not be met.)

    Still learning.

  254.  #254Sapphire on December 19, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Just as a start off how about
    Problem being most people text these days and dont really think about phoning – How about

    Send a text saysing “I know in this day and age -texting is the way most people connect but for me it feels wonderful to talk”.

    Then the rest is down to him.
    Some men are clueless and need a little point in the right direction

    As for the rest of your posts

    You are enough – its just your negative voice acting up. Give him/her a hug/cookie and thank them for sharing and then go and do something wonderful for yourself.
    I dont coment much on this blog but love reading what you and the other Sirens write.

    Sapphire x

  255.  #255Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Liquid LIght, Yes, it’s so funny that that little thing is kind of like the straw that broke the camels back.

    Really.. all this other stuff is going on and I’ve just been holding it all inside, keeping it all together. And then some random clueless guy sends me his tenth text in a week with out me responding to any of them, and the water works start coming.

    lololololol… Oh my goodness. I had to dig deeper and deeper. I’m not interested in this person at all, I’m just frustrated with, as you said, trying to control the outcome of everything. Everything in my life!!!! And that’s a losing battle. hahahahah

    Well, I feel free right now. Loosened. Thank you ladies. Thank you blog. And thank you Rori’s and Tatia Dee’s Valuable lessons for me in both.

  256.  #256Liquid Light on December 19, 2014 at 11:12 am

    Andrea, perhaps the message is to tell you to try to listen to your feelings and not push them down. They are trying to scream out to you loud and clear and you finally heard them with the last straw texting guy. just a thought. Hang in there girl. It sounds like you are on the brink of a huge breakthrough. 🙂

  257.  #257Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 11:19 am

    Victoria, continue from 244,
    I had to run because I was going to be late for my meditation group and I was by about 5 minutes.
    When I arrived at the closed door to our meeting room there was MusicTd coming out of an adjoing door from a darkened room. I smiled cheerily at him and wondered how long he had to wait behind that door (with glass) until I showed up. I know we are both intuitive but this seemed a bit much for intuition. He seems to need to see me in person once or twice a week. I whispered to him ‘my lateness, probably genetic’ and that was that. Well, except for me wishing I could have thrown my arms around him and taken him on the floor right there.

    Then about 20 minutes after our meeting ended I went to my accustomed easy chair at the other end of the church and settled in to listening to a couple of full length pieces so beautiful they made me shudder.

    Talking about the big O***. One day we were putting away our bells after our performance when he played this incredibly lush piece. I saw the woman in front of me swaying from back to front so that she had to grab onto the back of a chair, she whispered to herself, ‘oohh, that was powerful’ and kept on completing her task. I thought yikes, she just had an ‘o’. I think he took down a quarter of the women in the group with that one. I’ll bet there were more than a few happy husbands that day.

    I could not speak for the rest of the day. I left right after the service and did not speak to him even though he seemed to make a move toward me. There were no words left for any reason. Then I went home and after 4-5 multi ‘Os” I realized I could have kept going. Most unusual for me. I did write a note to him about that incredibly lush piece and how I thought he should be arrested for that one.

    I need to do more exercise my self. Since I started CDing the craving seems to be a little tempered by that. I’m trying to keep in mind the Muse part of this and try not to pay attention to the person himself but so far failing miserably.

  258.  #258nyx on December 19, 2014 at 11:29 am


    two things, one: let that little girl out, what does it matter if she can not stop crying? Because she is there anyways, with the same amount of sorrow, anyways, and she will affect you. Acknowledging things/feelings normally makes them a lot easier to handle…

    About acknowledging your daughters’ desires… I’d rather teach mine (if I had any) to want more, to not make excuses and look forward to either later meeting someone who fills them, or becoming able to fill them themselves, than to make excuses and stay around someone who is more of a burden than a support. Even in friendships, the real thing is: when a friend needs support, we give it, of course… but we also GET it back… we support, from both sides. Your ex is clearly used to “roll over” and get forgiven. If I could use puppyeyes and humble words to pay all my bills (monetary and emotional ones alike) I would feel seriously tempted… but it wouldn’t make me any better person :S
    How about the “ok, you can’t pay daughter’s phone bill now, but she expects you to as soon as possible. When is your next salary?”
    Kind of an “accept BUT expect”-attitude? As in “I’m sorry, you don’t get away with words only anymore, you’re a grown man, time to ACT and show your word is worth something”. Seriously? Is he the youngest kid in his family? Andrea- do not blame yourself. In one aspect I think you chose well, he seems to have a warm heart. But he is too weak to deliver his ambitions, and… well… we all have to grow up (and man up) at some point. We don’t do that by others being a buffer between us and our actions…
    Do teach your daughters that it is the best to want what they deserve- to choose to have responsible grownups around them. As for BEING a responsible grownup- you are showing them this continually. BRAVA to you! 🙂
    (I’m sorry if I get too advicey… but you throw out so many doubts, while you clearly are on the right path…
    I so feel I want to cheer you on…)

  259.  #259Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Andrea 253

    Oh Andrea, I’m right there with you, tears are in my eyes too. How devastating this feels. There is no candy coating for this. When we are responsible for little lives it can just about tear us apart. I hope you do hold them in your arms and tell them it’s ok to want a daddy who steps up to the plate. Hopefully there is some men in your family, church, social group that can step in here to help. As a person who was also abandoned by her father I know it affected my whole life. Strength be unto you.

  260.  #260Millie on December 19, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    I feel so sick to my stomach today. I hate that when I feel a man is upset with me, even if I did nothing, it send my body into a tizzy. I can’t eat, I feel nauseous, shaky, I want to go to bed.

    What happened was… “Out of town guy” messaged me last week saying he’s sorry and he got screwed over and he wants to be friends. I didn’t respond. For many reasons. He’s not the man I thought he was and I don’t even know who I’m talking to anymore. I don’t trust him. And biggest overall point is WHY? There is no point! Anyway, so he’s been posting all these things in fb about his “wounded heart” Nd how he put in his notice at work and is moving to another state. Not my state though. It started to make me mad that he could just flip overnight like that…. With no explanation or remorse. I finally broke and commented in his status, asking if he ever really wanted to come here. I know I shouldn’t have….. But I did.

    He deleted my comment and text me back saying “don’t be so dramatic” which triggered me beyond belief!!!! He said there were things he doesn’t share publicly behind his decison and to not judge him in a public forum. I said I have a right to feel how I feel and I’m not judging you. He said if I wanted to discuss it further to call him tmrw. I told him there was nothing left to discuss…… And that I couldn’t be “friends” with him. I lay my sword down and told him seeing his posts send a jolt of hurt through me and it’s better for me not to see them. I have to unfriend him because thAt is what’s best for me emotionally.

    His tone has just changed so much from being so tender to just cold… So uncaring and Unadmitting. Like he has so many secrets is don’t understand that keep me in the dark and from ever really holding him responsible… Because there are things I just done know.

    So I deleted him. And I’m really glad I did.
    Through all these yucky feelings at least I know I did the right thing for me. I may not have taken the best road to get there, but I did it. I was honest, truthful, spoke from my heart, and put myself first. Good job Millie!

  261.  #261Millie on December 19, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    I feel so sick to my stomach today. I hate that when I feel a man is upset with me, even if I did nothing, it send my body into a tizzy. I can’t eat, I feel nauseous, shaky, I want to go to bed.

    What happened was… “Out of town guy” messaged me last week saying he’s sorry and he got dumped and now he wants to be friends. I didn’t respond. For many reasons. He’s not the man I thought he was and I don’t even know who I’m talking to anymore. I don’t trust him. And biggest overall point is WHY? There is no point! Anyway, so he’s been posting all these things in fb about his “wounded heart” Nd how he put in his notice at work and is moving to another state. Not my state though. It started to make me mad that he could just flip overnight like that…. With no explanation or remorse. I finally broke and commented in his status, asking if he ever really wanted to come here. I know I shouldn’t have….. But I did.

    He deleted my comment and text me back saying “don’t be so dramatic” which triggered me beyond belief!!!! He said there were things he doesn’t share publicly behind his decison and to not judge him in a public forum. I said I have a right to feel how I feel and I’m not judging you. He said if I wanted to discuss it further to call him tmrw. I told him there was nothing left to discuss…… And that I couldn’t be “friends” with him. I lay my sword down and told him seeing his posts send a jolt of hurt through me and it’s better for me not to see them. I have to unfriend him because thAt is what’s best for me emotionally.

    His tone has just changed so much from being so tender to just cold… So uncaring and Unadmitting. Like he has so many secrets is don’t understand that keep me in the dark and from ever really holding him responsible… Because there are things I just done know.

    So I deleted him. And I’m really glad I did.
    Through all these yucky feelings at least I know I did the right thing for me. I may not have taken the best road to get there, but I did it. I was honest, truthful, spoke from my heart, and put myself first. Good job Millie!

  262.  #262Millie on December 19, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    I feel so sick to my stomach today. I hate that when I feel a man is upset with me, even if I did nothing, it send my body into a tizzy. I can’t eat, I feel nauseous, shaky, I want to go to bed. I hate that every time something like his happens I feel so unbalanced.

    What happened was… “Out of town guy” messaged me last week saying he’s sorry and he got screwed over and he wants to be friends. I didn’t respond. For many reasons. He’s not the man I thought he was and I don’t even know who I’m talking to anymore. I don’t trust him. And biggest overall point is WHY? There is no point! Anyway, so he’s been posting all these things in fb about his “wounded heart” Nd how he put in his notice at work and is moving to another state. Not my state though. It started to make me mad that he could just flip overnight like that…. With no explanation or remorse. I finally broke and commented in his status, asking if he ever really wanted to come here. I know I shouldn’t have….. But I did.

    He deleted my comment and text me back saying “don’t be so dramatic” which triggered me beyond belief!!!! He said there were things he doesn’t share publicly behind his decison and to not judge him in a public forum. I said I have a right to feel how I feel and I’m not judging you. He said if I wanted to discuss it further to call him tmrw. I told him there was nothing left to discuss…… And that I couldn’t be “friends” with him. I lay my sword down and told him seeing his posts send a jolt of hurt through me and it’s better for me not to see them. I have to unfriend him because thAt is what’s best for me emotionally.

    His tone has just changed so much from being so tender to just cold… So uncaring and Unadmitting. Like he has so many secrets is don’t understand that keep me in the dark and from ever really holding him responsible… Because there are things I just done know.

    So I deleted him. And I’m really glad I did.
    Through all these yucky feelings at least I know I did the right thing for me. I may not have taken the best road to get there, but I did it. I was honest, truthful, spoke from my heart, and put myself first. Good job Millie!

  263.  #263Millie on December 19, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Is anyone else having troubles with posting? I wrote a good size post but it’s not showing up

  264.  #264Azure Blu on December 19, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    nyx #248
    ohhh… YES!!! thank you for this perspective
    I love what you said here…
    This is VERY timely for me…
    for my children’s dead beat father
    (I’m like you Andrea…
    on and off I have to forgive my self for making such a rediculous choice for a father
    (and husband) for my children)

    You put this so Perfectly for me and my situation with my fav CD- Spirit…
    “accept BUT expect”-attitude? As in “I’m sorry, you don’t get away with words only anymore, you’re a grown man, time to ACT and show your word is worth something”. Seriously!!!!!
    So my actions will be showing that
    I am expecting MORE from Spirit…
    as I continue to Cd with others and being less
    and less available to him…

  265.  #265Beloved on December 19, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Why Anger Is The Key To Love

    If there’s distance between you, there’s anger.

    If you’re being “extra nice…” you’re angry.

    If you’re giving more than you’re getting…you’re angry.

    There are two parts to this puzzle:

    1. Whether or not you can touch your anger and how you feel when you do, and…

    2. What you do with what you feel.

    Let’s say you can’t figure out why you’re “blue.”

    Ask yourself…Where am I angry?

    You may be surprised at the question. You may say to yourself…I’m not angry, I’m sad.

    Ask again.

    Keep asking until you connect with your anger (I can guarantee you’re feeling it…just don’t try to ask yourself – ‘Why am I feeling it?’)…and then follow through with touching it, looking at it, embracing it, admiring its power, and owning it.

    You can ask follow-up questions:

    Who am I angry at?

    What am I angry at?

    How angry am I?

    Once you’ve just got in touch with your anger…don’t hold it at arm’s length. Get close to it. Study it. Play with it. Put your arms around it. Put your heart around it. Say…Where have you been all my life?

    Once you’re all touchy-feely with your rage, you’re going to notice some other feelings show up and try to muscle in on your new relationship.

    You’ll notice guilt creep on over. And then fear.

    That’s because anger is such a powerful feeling (let’s face it, in the grip of rage, we feel like we want to kill someone. To push him off a cliff or smash him in two. Own up to any such impulse. Pretend you’re an actress and you have to find the power in your anger in order to get your much-deserved Academy Award for your “raw” and “authentic” presence in your own life…) — it’s SO powerful, we’re actually afraid we might DO something like that – kill him and wipe out half the planet doing it.

    And you won’t. I know you won’t. You’re just too fabulous a woman to bother doing that.

    So, now you have to accept, look at, embrace the guilt and the fear, too.

    And, if you’re doing this right, you’ll also uncover grief. It may be so intense you blank out and go numb for a moment…so when you touch it, even for a split-second – give yourself a “high-five.”

    Okay…first step accomplished.

    Now…what are you going to DO with all that emotion?

    Are you going to cut loose and wail at a man? Are you going to demand he change, now, or buddy, you’re out the door?

    Are you going to go the “spiritual route” and play nice? Get all understanding and compassionate and neutral and try to have a reasonable discussion?

    Or are you going to just stuff it down for another day and go about your business?

    Here’s where the art of being you works so brilliantly…

    1. If you’re by yourself and in your own home where you can feel all private and safe, that’s terrific. You can jump up and down, you can punch the air with your face, you can lay down on the floor and start breathing into all that anger and grief and guilt and everything else you feel until you get so bored you want to turn on the TV and watch something stupid — or even better one a get out and take a nice walk in the neighborhood and look at and kiss some beautiful trees.

    You can pet yourself and hug yourself and make yourself some tea and allow yourself to giggle over all this intensity you’re feeling or allow yourself to cry over everything you’re feeling, and shake a bit — and then you may feel like doing something like dance around the room…

    2. But most likely you’re out in public. You’re sitting across from a man in a restaurant. You’re walking with him from the car. You’re stuck in the car with him. You’re in his house or your house and all of a sudden you feel the intensity of how deeply he is ignoring you, dismissing you, not interested in you, or just plain mean.

    Well, you first have to do the first part of this which is to figure out a way, logistically, to feel what you’re feeling — especially your anger.

    This usually means you have to get up and go to the ladies room. Or you have to turn around and walk back to the car or you have to stop talking and turn your face away from him while you’re walking. You have to sit at the table with your head in your hands blocking out everything and simply tuning in to what’s going on with you and asking yourself questions that you need to ask.

    I prefer the bathroom, but I have learned to just sit there feeling my face turn red and my body want to fight or flee, with my face in my hand, in total silence, and process through these questions and my feelings amazingly quickly.

    So I know that you can too.

    3. Now, here comes the “action” part. What you DO if you’re out in public or he’s right in front of you in your kitchen.

    I’m going to have to write a lot of posts about this because there are so many pieces to this, but let’s start here.

    If the first part is about “processing” through your feelings, then the second part is how you express that to him.

    And to make things simple here again to give you just two options:

    1. You speak the truth in Feeling Messages — you sayI. (If you have not finished processing through the truth might be I feel confused, or I feel uncomfortable, or something else that expresses how you feel in a way that makes you feel like you’ve really expressed yourself (without, of course, talking about him or making him wrong).

    2. If you’ve done this more than a few times with a man, if you’ve had to express the same thing to him over and over (for instance, he’s asked you not to do something so that he can do it for you himself, only he hasn’t taken the time to do it and you’re finding yourself waiting… or he’s dismissed your feelings and you’ve told him many times how bad you feel when that happens) — then you WALK AWAY.

    Simple… you just turn around and go in the other direction.

    You go find the ladies room in a public place, or you go home in a taxi or your own car, or you take yourself to a bedroom and close the door. You can say This feels bad and I don’t want to feel this, and then walk away, or you can say I don’t want to do this right now and walk away or you can just say I want to go home and walk away, or you can even just turn and walk into the kitchen and not say anything.

    What ever you do — you have to feel this:

    You have to feel as though you have HONORED your anger.

    This doesn’t mean you have to feel like you hurt him, or a person at work or another circumstance who has hurt you. It doesn’t mean you have to do damage. It doesn’t mean you have to have revenge. It doesn’t mean you have to have some kind of physical or emotional effect on him. It does not mean you have to have a result of any kind.

    Honoring your anger feels like you are WHOLE

    It feels like you are in one piece. You don’t feel shattered, you don’t feel disconnected from yourself, you don’t feel conflicted — you don’t feel like your anger and your guilt and your grief are all pulling on each other from different directions.

    You feel all of a piece. You are you. Whole. Complete. Beautiful. Angry.

    Don’t look for a result of the feelings going away. That’s not the point. Feelings are powerful things and they keep moving around all the time. They move through your body. The more they change, and the more you attend to them with the intention of honoring them and ALLOWING them to move anyway they choose, they will begin to morph into better feeling feelings.

    And, as a bonus, when the anger gets felt and expressed — when YOU can do it FIRST — everything will open up in a relationship. Love comes back from behind the barricades set up by the effort, on both your parts, to make the anger “behave.”

    I love your anger. I love all of you. I love all of me. Let’s rock.

    Love, Rori

  266.  #266Dominique on December 19, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    This for any of you facing anything which might feel bad with the upcoming holidays. Even when in a loving relationship, this time of year can still feel triggering.

    I send you all much love and BIG hugs.


  267.  #267Beloved on December 19, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Express Your Anger Without Pushing Him Away
    -Rori Raye

    Bottling up your anger or expressing it the wrong way can instantly result in a loss of intimacy in your relationship. Next time you’re inclined to either “tell him off” or “hold it in,” follow these steps and watch how they powerfully bring your man closer.

    Just letting out your feelings all over a man by “telling him off” will only push him away. And “stuffing down” your feelings by pretending (to him, or to yourself) that you feel something else will also create distance between you and a man. Here’s why…and what to do instead so you not only say what you really want, but you draw a man closer to you because of it.


    Our self-esteem depends on how honest we are with ourselves, and the moment we say or do something that is not being true to what’s really going on with us, our self-esteem goes down. And as our self-esteem goes down, we become less attractive. A man is naturally drawn to a woman who is in tune with her feelings and who has both the confidence and the self-love to NOT put up with what doesn’t feel good.

    Usually, we bottle up our anger so much that we wind up unleashing it on a man in a way he can’t hear – or we express anger about something completely different than what we’re actually angry about.

    If you’ve ever blown up at a man because he didn’t pick up after himself when you were actually craving more romance and attention from him, you know what I mean. You were really feeling angry about feeling unloved, not about his dirty socks.


    So, if we’re feeling hurt, disappointed and angry, how do we “let it out” truthfully in a way that increases his attraction to us and changes whatever is going on that made us angry in the first place?

    1. STOP. Interrupt whatever you’re about to do or say – it hasn’t worked before.

    2. Sit down. Don’t go somewhere else so he won’t see you.

    3. Take a deep breath. Let it out, and then breathe in and out two more times. Imagine the air flowing all the way down your body and relaxing each body part as it touches it.

    4. Find the feeling. Let’s say he made plans to do something else when you were hoping for a romantic evening. Know what the feeling is NOT: It’s NOT “I’m so glad you made other plans, because I really wanted to spend the evening alone washing my hair.” You know you feel BAD. You know you feel disappointed and angry.

    5.Tell the truth. Without saying the word “you” (which only serves to blame him and make him defensive), say: “I feel bad,” or “I feel disappointed,” or “I feel angry.”

    6. Don’t back down. You might feel vulnerable and afraid that you’ve gone too far. You haven’t. If he apologizes, thank him. And then say, “”I don’t like feeling bad (or disappointed or angry). It makes me feel turned off.”

    7. That’s it; you’re done. Listen to what he has to say, but don’t get into a discussion about it. Your goal here was simply to honor your feelings (and therefore yourself) by communicating your feelings to him.

    8. Immediately do something that makes you happy. It could be something as small as making yourself a cup of tea or going for a walk. The point is that you are taking care of yourself rather than expecting him to do so, which makes you even more attractive in his eyes.

    The next time you feel yourself welling up with anger and unsure about how to handle it, try the steps above. It takes practice to reverse long-standing patterns, but you can do it. Once you do, I know you’ll feel so much better about yourself – and so much more adored by the man in your life. The stronger you feel, the more the anger will dissolve, and you will discover a whole new level of intimacy in your relationship.

  268.  #268Azure Blu on December 19, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    Andrea… I think I may be experiencing some of what you are sharing here…

    Spirit has attended 2 christmas events with me…and he has been texting and calling… soft warm, manly huggs and kisses (PDA)
    singing love song messages on my voice text (and in front of my girlfriends)
    Yes… all very romantic…
    my next practice was for me to NOT bring up
    about me visiting HIS apt…
    So on Wed. we were at a xmas party together…
    I shared how much I enjoyed attending the xmas party with him (that is one of the issues – me feeling he doesn’t have time for me) and shared how happy I feel being with him…
    we made-out in the car…
    I did let him into my house (which i haven’t in 2 months) but kept the door open and did Not invite him to stay (because it feels off balance to have him be at my place because I havn’t been to his place)

    and I DIDN”T bring up the subject of his apt!!! YAY!!

    When he left I felt triggered… I felt empty…
    I felt agitated…
    I sat with it… tried to understand what could be causing this?
    I’m thinking it was because
    I WASNT controlling the situation…
    I received his gift of time… of spending time with my friends…
    enjoying this…
    NOT Controlling HIM

    Me letting him give to me
    in his way…
    was annoying ME
    ME who NEEDS to Control –
    especially MEN I am close to…
    I wanted to have a temper tantrum
    I wanted him to do and say and act
    Exactly LIKE I SAY!!!
    AHHH the gift of change and learning and LOVING ME~!
    and then learning to LOVE others
    because I LOVE ME~!

  269.  #269Azure Blu on December 19, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Ahhh… these are GREAT!!!
    Thank you…

  270.  #270Azure Blu on December 19, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Thank you for this link!!!
    You have such a loving, kind way
    Very soothing for me…
    I was trying to burry and ignore my feelings of disappointment and grief
    over NOT having a partner/man to join me
    in all my holiday goodness, joy, whimsy and magic..
    I will honor these feelings
    right now…

  271.  #271Kyla on December 19, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Thanks Beloved, I needed that reminded today 🙂

  272.  #272lovetodance on December 19, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    i am receiving such benefit from working with Kristi-Kay…one of rori’s new trained coaches….

    she is loving, perceptive, smart and helping me unwrap my wants, needs, desires, motivations and behaviors

    i highly recommend her….she is filled with expertise and experience…

    a gift i have been giving myself…

  273.  #273Mistea1 on December 19, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    I took an acting class once in college. One of the exercises we did was to give us the feeling of anger. I don’t remember the how to but I still remember with surprise the effect.
    The feeling I accessed was what I had always thought of as sadness. Interesting.

  274.  #274Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    Thank you everyone. Ooooooohhhhhh… this anger feeling is hot topic for me right now. What a great reminder Beloved and Dominique.

    Yes, I feel not only cut off from a man but also cut off from myself when I squelch those feelings and pretend I’m not angry.

    So much to practice.

    Thank you NYX. What you said about my daughter’s experience just resonated so solidly with my heart. I needed this, needed to express myself and get this great useful feedback. Thank you.

    I feel calm and at peace this evening. I feel so much better. I actually danced a little around my kitchen feeling lighter and more at ease.

    I got a phone call today from a man that I just happened to have a long conversation with about a month ago. He did some digging and found my phone number. He said that I was on his mind after our interaction. It was an exciting connection for me because he is very attractive yet gentle, but we just talked about life in general while he waited for his band mates to get ready leave our hotel.

    This afternoon, a month later, he texted me, let me know who he was, said he completely understood if I didn’t remember him or if I didn’t want to chat, but that I’d been on his mind. I texted back: doing my nails can’t text.

    He called me.
    We talked again for quite a while. It felt really nice. But… oddly…. another connection that lives states away from me. What’s with all the long distant men coming up in my life?

    Does it mean that I’m still a long distance away from myself? hmmmmmm.

    Anyway, no interaction from RRguy and I know it’s his birthday today. I’ve decided (even though he asked me to call him, to contact him) that I’m not going to reach out. Just tired of the lack of effort on his part.

    And life goes on. Thank you so much for responding all. This topic of anger is so helpful.

  275.  #275April Rose on December 19, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Has anyone been on speed dating?

    What happens? What do you do?

    Any tips? Smile? Let the man talk?

  276.  #276Liquid Light on December 19, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    AR, yes, I’ve done speed dating a bunch of times. Yes, listen, let the man talk, chances are he will easily fill up the whole time. They love to talk and try to impress you! Have fun!

  277.  #277Andrea on December 19, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    Azure Blu… ooooo argh… I know what you are talking about.
    I feel that angst rise up in me. I wanna say, “What in the world, why won’t he let you see his apartment?”

    I want to figure it out.

    I feel such pride in your patience.

  278.  #278Sophie on December 19, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    April Rose

    I did speed-dating – it’s an amazing opportunity for practicing RR! I can’t remember if I had discovered Rori by the time I did it but I certainly didn’t use RR and I’ve reflected every since what a good forum it is for practicing. In the one that I went to, I think I remained sat at a table and the men had to move round every 3 mins or something and then there was like a ‘social’ drinks thing after so men could come and talk to you. When I look back now, it would’ve been so good for practicing leaning back. At the time, I was really accustomed to picking up the oars and rowing – especially if it felt uncomfortable and the man didn’t have much to say,I’d automatically take the lead. I would feel curious to go again and really lean back – experiment with different results…

  279.  #279Gear on December 19, 2014 at 9:04 pm

    272 April rose,

    I have been to a few speed dating events, actually went two weeks ago after I had practiced Rori’s programs for 4 weeks. It was amazing. I felt much more at ease. Basically still the same,McLean back, wait for the man speak first.monce they rotate to sit in front you, wait for him to speak first. Yes, I did smile at them as they approach me and a at down and gave eye contact and my full attention even though I was not speaking. It was fun!!! All my speed dating experience was fun, last time was more fruitful as I was exploring the whole menu of men.
    Go enjoy and have fun. Let us know how it went.

  280.  #280Beloved on December 19, 2014 at 9:04 pm

    I feel good that the articles on anger were timely for some of us…kind of had a hunch 😉

    Off and on today I’ve been getting in touch with that “numb” feeling I felt last night. The more I feel into it, the more I feel fear. Raw fear.
    Fear of being claimed. Fear of feeling rejected and judged and dismissed by the white people (who weren’t talking to me anyway) at the cafe for being with a black man. It feels odd that this would bother me, because for years I only dated black men.
    Fear that if he “claimed” me, nobody else would be interesting to me, that I might “lose” something, be ostracized, be a pariah.
    Fear of too much too soon.
    Fear of getting too close too fast.
    Fear of feeling fully open and “latching on” or something.
    Fear of feeling “invaded”, which might be fear of engulfment.
    Ah, haha, yes, that made me laugh, that’s probably close.
    I feel good that I felt all of that, communicated my feelings as well, without resorting to being capricious or insensitive as I have in the past. Hoo. Ray!

  281.  #281lovetodance on December 19, 2014 at 9:53 pm

    wow beloved…i really feel that i understand what you are saying…
    thank you for articulating the layers of your feelings so well….

    yes, the fear of being engulfed of being entrapped, of being invaded…of options being lost…of being claimed without my full YES….all of that i relate to…

    yes the fear of getting too close too fast… i have found many men so much faster than i…and i don’t mean just sexually…but the whole emotional thing…or they are the opposite…keeping very detached emotionally and seeing me only sexually…

    so i understand their fear of engulfment as i accept mine.

    it just leaves me with ….wtf….all this baggage….and yet i optimistically feel there is that special magic …that sometimes happens ….with the right person and the right timing and all is lined up and wow! there is a vunerability and opening…two of us together at the same place….

    i am getting more ready again for that …i feel like i am strengthening the insides of me, allowing more and more the beauty of me to shine forth and trust in it….to allow it to flow from me out…without twisting or doubting or trying or forcing….learning to just be more me

    sitting more and more with my own experiences and responses to what is passing before me….interested in my own responses

    letting men [ and everyone] enjoy me….as i enjoy them …..

  282.  #282Emerson on December 19, 2014 at 11:58 pm

    Labbit, thanks for the reminders!!! Good to keep in mind and close to my heart as I CD.

    Mistea, sounds interesting, I personally don’t like crazy stories like that about hi ex wife and jail…etc…its enough to spook me away,

  283.  #283Millie on December 19, 2014 at 11:59 pm


    I’m sitting here nodding my head and understanding your posts. A lot of the same thoughts running through my head and feelings. Especially about wanting to lean back, but feeling like I have to explain and tell people how I want to be treated.

    I hear you and I hear your frustrations….
    I don’t have any advice or answers, I just feel in the boat.

  284.  #284Emerson on December 20, 2014 at 12:04 am

    I don’t know how to shake this feeling every time I start feeling interested in a man, I almost simultaneously have thoughts of “it won’t work out, it never does, why do you even think ‘what if?’ Emerson….things will continue as normal, you alone”
    Seriously I just have this feeling of hopelessness and that whole dialogue.
    Does anyone else experience this?

  285.  #285Mandy on December 20, 2014 at 12:05 am


    J is hurting so bad…He didn’t get his last check from work because the mailbox was full and all our mail was returned…perhaps including his check…and now can’t buy any Xmas presents or take care of his own needs…

    I feel SO, so so so badly for him…

    But I CAN’T fix it for him…no trying to fix, Mandy…..

    I DID tell him how I felt and that I wish I could help…Because my feelings just poured out…

    Poor, sweet J….always trying so hard and so hard on himself when he feels failure….

    I want to wave a magic wand and make it better but can’t…I guess all I can do is listen….say feelings…and hold his hand when he wants to have it held…and then just not expect anything and have no agenda…

    He will get over it, things always change…it’s just Xmas that has us really stressed because we like to give gifts and his will has diminished even on making hot sauce like we planned for Xmas gifts for people.

    When he is happy he beams at me with his beautiful eyes…I know I’ll see it again….

    I keep wondering how I can help him feel masculine…but that’s me in masculine mode and I tend to go by Dominique’s suggestions on this, because her suggestions have always worked for me….

    Luckily I’m never selfish when he feels bad about touches and snuggles and kisses. I jus try to listen and be understanding.

    Feel so bad for him though 🙁

  286.  #286Indigo on December 20, 2014 at 12:18 am


    Growing up I had two parents who were both big on promises, and not so big on delivery. I was let down by my dad so many times I just lost count and came to expect no better from him. As a little girl it felt painful, but eventually I felt a bit numb and lost interest in ever expecting anything from him.

    I grew up and eventually I learnt to let both my parents off the hook. I realized they were not going to change because I wanted them to, because it was the right thing to do. I forgave them and released them from my expectations, and that was one of the most liberating things I have ever done in my life. I realized I had permission, I was allowed, to give every one of those wonderful things I had longed for from them as a child, to myself. If I wanted something, a new phone, a new pair of shoes, I was earning a salary and could buy it for myself. And I could take genuine pleasure in it because I realized I delighted in giving myself things. If I wanted hugs and emotional understanding, I could seek out people who were willing to do that for me. I didn’t have to put up with crap from my parents either – I could walk away. It was a very liberating feeling to me to discover that other people may disappoint me and not do what I want or be who I want or need them to be, but I don’t have to live there. I can seek out something better. That is where my strength and happiness comes from – I discovered that, and your daughters will too.

  287.  #287Indigo on December 20, 2014 at 12:25 am


    Really love your post 258.

  288.  #288Millie on December 20, 2014 at 12:29 am

    ugh, so whats happening with me….so much feelings swirling…

    Where I left off last was “out of town guy” made promises and verbal commitments that he was going to visit and that I would finally meet him. Within one week of an outpour of wonderful feeling messages from him, telling me his of his own accord taking himself off the market, my phone went silent. Then I found a post of FB that told me he was involved with someone else. Two days after that he messages me and says he made the wrong choice and the girl rejected him. I don’t know the details, but he asked me to “at least” maintain a friendship and be friends with him on Facebook. I didn’t respond as SO many things were flying through my head. I wanted to call him names, obscenities, for deceiving me unnecessarily, and making me feel like I don’t even matter. I wrote out what I wanted to say, but decided that silence was stronger and said nothing. During this time however, I was still friends with him on Facebook and he posted about moving to another state (not my state, even though the plan was he was coming out here to see if he wanted to move here) and his “wounded heart” as if he is the victim here. Not that I am, but I’m not the one that was two-timing. The posts triggered me….for lack of a better word, it hurt. I felt cast aside and trashed and now he’s moved on in like 24 hours, leaving his job and now picking up and moving just like that….

    So last night, I read one he had just posted and I got angry! At everything, at all of this….at how I feel, and the things he said and didn’t do, at the words he spoke to me, but didn’t mean, now I don’t know what was real, but it felt so good, that I hate having to believe it wasn’t….how can that be possible….who is this person?!

    So, I did something I should have done, I commented on his post. I just said…that was fast, I wonder if you ever actually wanted to come here. I know it’s his business and he’s a jerk so why do I care…but it made me mad!! He’s posting all this stuff knowing I can see it, I wanted him to know I saw it and the he can’t just pretend what happened btwn us didn’t exist! Well, he deleted the comment and told me “not to be so dramatic” which of course made me the color of my red hair! How dare he?!! He said there are things behind the scenes that he doesn’t post publicly and not judge him on a public forum. I don’t think I could think straight I was so mad. First of all, he was dismissing my emotions, acting like all of this wasn’t a big deal and it totally was!!! And he’s more emotional than me!! So for him to dismiss it, is so cold and icy. Long story short he said if I wanted to discuss it further he’s available after blah hour…..which of course added to my anger! He had time to talk to me before, now I have to fit in to his business hours when I did nothing wrong. At that moment, I felt you know…I don’t want to talk to him and I don’t want to know his reasoning for his choices. He’s made his choices and there’s nothing to discuss. I just hated the way he talked to me, so different from before, like night and day. No tenderness or understanding….and ya maybe I’m to blame since I “attacked” him on FB, he felt defensive. I decided at that moment that I didn’t want to see his posts anymore or be connected to him on FB. So I deleted him and told him I had to do it for myself. And that was the truth…If I had done that I wouldn’t have triggered all this anger and hurt. He never responded to that…and I’m glad because I can’t talk to him anymore.

    My self esteem is a bit deflated. I feel a hint of my old habits…feeling self conscious in social settings, allowing too much negative thoughts, feeling so shaky, nauseous, and sick from getting mistreated and then feeling like I did something wrong or said the wrong thing or shouldn’t have said something….

    I decided to make myself feel better by telling myself that everything is a choice. I choose to feel shaky and sick, I choose to let this guy get to me, and I choose for him to disappear, I can choose to free my mind of him, of any guilt I have. I can choose to relax my stomach and focus on the next thing. Or I can sit in this feelings and let them drain from my bloodstream.

    I will say, that I feel very bitter about men. I feel so let down….I think I got a reality check on how trusting I can be and how I shouldn’t be. How carried away I got with his words and feelings rather than his physical presence and action. I ask myself, what role am I playing in these “relationships” in these interactions? I want to say I need to keep my guard up.

    I hate that I always feel so shaken after an altercation with a guy. I wish I’d just stayed silent, but then I wouldn’t have expressed myself as I did, and I shouldn’t regret any of that.

  289.  #289Millie on December 20, 2014 at 12:31 am

    this is the third time this has happened..
    I write a post and hit submit and the screen goes to the top of the blog and my post is nowhere to be found at the bottom…whyyyyyyy

  290.  #290Indigo on December 20, 2014 at 12:33 am

    Emerson 281,

    It sounds as if you may be in a funk? A few confidence boosters, such as men you may not be so interested in but are super into you, might be helpful? I found when I was in that funk some time ago, I really had to do things as soon as possible to boost my opinion of myself and get myself into a new headspace.

  291.  #291Millie on December 20, 2014 at 12:35 am

    Ugh, I’ll just write a short post then…

    “Out of town guy’s” Facebook posts made me feel angry. I felt disregarded. Overnight, he quit his job and is moving to another state, not mine, as if all of that between us never was said. Emotions swirl as part of me craves the potential we had and the other is disgusted with him lying to me. I need to focus more on a man being present and his actions rather than his romantic words. Long story short, I felt super angry triggered and triggered him by commenting on one of his posts. Yes, I shouldn’t have, but as a result, felt hurt by his tone and choice of words. I removed him as a friend and told him I had to do it for myself. I don’t know him and I can’t care anymore…I just need to not see his name or face or words…

  292.  #292Indigo on December 20, 2014 at 3:05 am

    So, as you know last night was supposed to be my movie date with D. Oh so much to tell about the interactions around this yesterday, but there is too much to say and I don’t feel like putting it all into words. Anyway, the upshot of it is that we are going on Monday night instead. He texted me the booking confirmation and has already paid and all that, and will pick me up and take me to dinner as well.

    He invited me round to watch a film at his house last night instead. He was cuddley and wrapped me in his arms, and kissed me deliciously. Yet I could tell he felt maybe a little cautious, a little unsure. He wasn’t feeling well, so that probably had something to do with it. I just leaned back and tried to catch myself any time I felt myself wanting to lean forward. He smiled gently and genuinely beamed when I told him it felt good to see him.

    And, this one is for you Azure Blu… I really resonated with what you said in 265. As I reflected on it all, I realized it had NOT gone according to how I originally expected and imagined in my mind, and I grappled with this feeling inside of *wanting* it to have gone exactly as I expected. It was a slightly controlling feeling and I did not know what to do with it. I had WANTED us to go to see that movie and for him to take me out to dinner last night because that’s what he and I originally spoke about. I realized there was a small part of me that wanted to make that happen at whatever cost. And yet, here he was, trying to give to me, wanting to see me and spending time with me, but in HIS way. He still wanted to see me tonight, and he will still pick me up and take me to dinner and to see the movie on Monday night, but he wanted to do it all his way.

    I grapple with this concept because I find it difficult. I still haven’t completely come to terms with it 🙂

  293.  #293Victoria on December 20, 2014 at 3:39 am

    Thank you for telling how it went with D., I was so curious.
    And, of course, my biggest challenge, like yours, and Azure’s, is how to deal with disappointement when things do not go our way.
    I think these men are sent to us to help us grow and teach us a life lesson… how to deal with someone we love who loves us back but would still not do what we want… I guess there is a way to do that : if you totally surrender and trust your loved one to choose and do whats best for both of you. But I am not there yet and I dont know if I will ever be.

  294.  #294Victoria on December 20, 2014 at 3:46 am

    On my own situation.
    Leaning back has helped me tremendously.
    It helped me clear my head and gave F. the space to come forward. He is seeing me more than before, is future talking and initiating more. I try really hard not to lean forward because my heart is bursting with love. But I choose to hold it and redirect it. I am so much more at peace with myself. Thank you all for being here for me and for each other, as strange as it sounds, I would not have been able to do this without you.

  295.  #295Indigo on December 20, 2014 at 3:48 am


    Oh I SO feel you.

    “how to deal with someone we love who loves us back but would still not do what we want… I guess there is a way to do that : if you totally surrender and trust your loved one to choose and do whats best for both of you.”

    That is exactly what I was thinking about as I drove back from his house this morning (sorry if the timelines are confusing all, I am in South Africa and we are about 8 or 9 hours ahead of the States). I was asking myself, if I truly lean back, which is what I have committed to do, can I accept the disappointment when things don’t go my way? Can I surrender to his way? I’d like to think that I can, but like you, Victoria, I’m not quite there yet!

  296.  #296Victoria on December 20, 2014 at 4:47 am

    I think I kind of can do it, I am not sure I want to.
    If I do, I might have to give up certain things which I think/thought are important to me.
    There is a trade off. With a clearer head, i am not sure it is a fair deal… or, from an emotional perspective when I dont feel the crazy longing I dont feel the crazy longing… do I make any sense?
    But then I was thinking, now is the time, now that I cooled off a little bit, to see objectively, whether we can make sense together… i can not live on endorphines alone…

  297.  #297Victoria on December 20, 2014 at 5:03 am

    He said something yesterday.
    I used a feeling message to thank him that he came to see me even though he was having a crazy day, but he just dropped everything and came to see me. I thanked him and he said, well I had to come because I know you miss me if I dont, and you are pretty and flirty, and if I leave you alone, someone will snatch you right in front my nose. He said he wants to guard me and have me for himself… i am not sure how this makes me feel.

  298.  #298lovetodance on December 20, 2014 at 6:17 am

    281 emerson…..your post……

    I don’t know how to shake this feeling every time I start feeling interested in a man, I almost simultaneously have thoughts of “it won’t work out, it never does, why do you even think ‘what if?’ Emerson….things will continue as normal, you alone”
    Seriously I just have this feeling of hopelessness and that whole dialogue.
    Does anyone else experience this?…..

    yes emerson i have/do have that experience….with the men ‘I’ am attracted to….or maybe not even that attracted to….

    and that ‘I’ know is classic nasty voices….my classic nasty voices that i am here to work on ….that i am in this life to un-do….to heal.

    i liked indigo’s suggestion of getting out of that funk, that headspace….soon

    and not easy to do when one is feeling discouraged or not confident….

    yet, i know …soooo important … exercise…exercising , strengthening that inner belief…making my sweet voices in me stronger, much stonger than the nasty ones….

    last night as i walked my dog downtown…couples, families, xmas twinkling lights…feeling the beauty and my singleness….feeling oh i’m not attractive anymore….

    and then i walk by a restaurant window…too older good looking interesting looking men…enjoying dinner together….both look at me with such interest and sparkle…hmmmmmm

    i find myself going oh nice …hmmmmm
    and then the NV…oh you would bore them soon enough….
    and i finally wrestle with that long enuf …
    and push back….’thank you…and be gone….you wrong and who invited you in here….?’
    (and i know it would be much better for me not to push back, but love them….that is another story, another investigation, another set of exercises…]

    so i know ….i know about that knee jerk reaction….why why why do i do that?….and it doesn’t matter why in this particular post….it just needs to be replaced with a better….much better, truer knee jerk reaction….like… of course they are attracted to me…and that looks like fun in there…those two gentlemen being interested in me and wooing me…alright….let the enjoyment begin….yes…..let the enjoyment begin!

    and soon…..

  299.  #299lovetodance on December 20, 2014 at 6:26 am

    riffing riffing riffing….the nasty voice…trilogy or something like that…

    here to protect me ?
    here because of fear?
    here because why? i’m not really interested in engaging? seems boring?
    really not a nasty voice just a reaction to a situation?
    i don’t need or want attention anyhow?
    i don’t get what i want anyhow?
    whats the use?
    i’m not interesting , sexy, desireable?
    its not coming from a place in me energized?
    just a place that needs attention and thats not a juicey place….

    oh my god i could go on and on

    i am thinking of that song…norwegian wood…knowing she would…maybe thats all i need …just knowing that i am attractive…sometimes thats all i need…
    the rest feels like so much work….i imagine men feel like that alot….

    but wheres the fun juicey place….
    where its fun to flirt …to play … to be pretty and sexy and expressive…

    yet thats what i love ….the play of it…when i am out there and in my power….in my adorable sexy playful power….

    ohhh how i love that!

  300.  #300Emerson on December 20, 2014 at 8:47 am

    Thanks Indigo and Lovetodance

    I feel my lack of confidence lies in my “luck” or chances of meeting someone compatible (which is funny because I don’t believe in “luck”)

    I have pretty high confidence in myself. Sure, there are times when I feel low or feel I could do better, or feel better, or look better….but it does not dominate.

    It’s more about a lack of confidence in my fate, circumstances, opportunity to meet someone compatible….

    I feel curious to explore this, and I do like your suggestions about exercising more which is a great idea…I always feel better when I do that.

    I have also pondered making a big move and changing my environment completely, I live in a very expensive city and I feel hesitant to put down roots because I feel I can never be independent here and own property, etc….

    I feel I will eventually have to move to have that, and it’s always in the back of my mind…

    I don’t know where to go though….

    I feel inspired to explore this…

  301.  #301prplpsn28 on December 20, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    All guys are jerks. I give up. I will be single for the rest of my life. 🙁

  302.  #302Liquid Light on December 20, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    I took a hike today in the hills around where I moved to about 6 months ago. It was an absolutely gorgeous hike and as I was walking along enjoying the stunning views, I realized that I felt content…It suddenly hit me that I really really felt content. Just such a great feeling. I haven’t felt that way in almost 2 years! Wow, how awesome!!!

  303.  #303Gear on December 20, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    I just want to post and share with you ladies of the success and joy as I am CDing. I feel so much fun.

    I had 5 dates with 4 guys last week. 1 guy came on strong for 1st date, but after 2nd date he is out, as he and I have different relationship goals. He has not been in touch, but since I am not invested yet, I don’t feel hurt.
    2 dates so far this week. 1 date is out after 2nd date this week. Now I have 2 strong candidates. both have pro and cons. Mr. Desire A and Mr. Desire B, who is out of town last few days.

    Mr. Desire A turned into Mr. disappointment this week. as He had not setup date with me after Tuesday 2nd date with me. He text Wednesday, but when I text, “Texting is ok, but would feel nice to hear your voice.” He text after a long while, “I am in bed now, see you soon, my dear.”
    Yesterday afternoon, he text me, I replied with enthusiasm, but still he didn’t ask me out. I went out for a pre-committed party. He text me “What are you doing tonight?” I didn’t reply until when I left the party. “Out with friends.” He text, “Have fun and be careful.” I didn’t reply anything, didn’t feel like to reply. I didn’t care to communicate with him at all.

    This morning I went out for my hair appointment, then stopped at a restaurant for a buffet lunch, rewarded myself very healthy meal-I took myself out-filled my needs without a man. After the lunch, Mr. Desire A text, “xxxx, I would like to see you again, when are you free?”

    I didn’t feel like talking with him at all…I felt like he was taking me for granted. I trusted my boundaries, followed my feelings and I didn’t express my feelings to him yet, b/c there was no chance. Then I text him” I’ve got plans for today, maybe tomorrow. I’ll be home 3-4 if you wanna call.”

    we played telephone tag a couple of times, Finally he called at 6, and asked me How was my day, I said “feeling excited about the holiday.” he asked me what I was going to do tonight. I said, “I am going out.” He kept pressing on, I didn’t say any more detail. He asked, “What’s going on?” I said, “I am enjoying life and having fun.” He kept asking, “Anything new since we last met?” I said, “Life is good, I am enjoying and having fun.” with a very calming, soothing and joyous voice. He said, “I am optimistic…” Then he setup the date with me for tomorrow. I asked, “Where are we going to meet and what we are going to do?” He asked me, “we are going for dinner, what would you like to eat?” This is the 3rd time he asked me out, but 1st time he asked me What I would like to eat. and I have been waiting for that!!!! last twice was all bar date, not really a formal dinner. – Yes, I was grumpy about that. Now it is gearing up, finally.

    Ladies, Stick with the program, Rori knew what she was talking about. I stayed “Leaning back”, and “Turnaround.” I just followed blindly what Rori said, b/c I know What I did before didn’t serve me well.

    Have faith, stick with the programs, memorize the mantra.

    Though I am not having any date tonight(I am going to a singles gathering), I feel confident, feel fun, feel good about myself, and feel hopeful about my future. It feels fantastic!

    Mr. Desire B is coming back town tonight. If he calls me tomorrow for the same day date, he will get the same treat. 🙂

    I am following the four rules and I know I need to get more candidates…It’s still early in the game…

  304.  #304Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    Indigo #291 & Victoria and Andrea and all on Siren Island…
    Yes, I feel we are gropolling with the same feelings…
    For me…
    I felt sooo good that I let myself sit
    with those feelings of emptiness
    when Spirit left after our date…
    Before RR i would have called and complained that something (he) was wrong…
    what should we do…
    should we break up?
    Me… on and on…
    Pushing Him away and blaming MY FEELINGS on
    HIM!!! UGGGhhh.

    BUT, darling Sirens…
    Now I can sit with my feelings
    feel my feelings… have my temper tantrum…
    Love and examine them
    and share them with Spirit
    with feeling messages (most of the time)
    IF and ONLY IF
    i think it is appropriate…

    And in this instance
    Him responding to my wishes
    of spending MORE time with ME…
    in a magical, masculine, exciting way
    It was SOOO important
    that I RECEIVE his gift of love
    and ATTENTION, adoration and kindness
    He knows I feel confused and disconnected
    about not being invited to his place…
    I DON:t need to bring that up again…

    I am the QUEEN of NEVER
    being satisfied with ALLLLLL
    the wonderful, delightful, magical
    gifts that a man brings to me… In HIS own way…

    He asked me out to dinner on Friday and we sat and talked and had lovely drinks and got lots of attention at the bar… laughed and shared that we are starting to feel MORE relaxed around each other…
    It was SOOO magical… he even asked if he could come to my families house for xmas…
    It is now feeling a little overwhelming…
    but I shared with him how safe I feel with him leading our relationship…
    I am deciding if I will invite him for xmas…
    Ahhh the power of cding and leaning back…

  305.  #305Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Ahhh… your date with D… sounds lovely…
    and upcoming date on Mon also!!!
    I believe Rori says
    do exactly what YOU are doing…
    letting go…
    Letting HIM lead…
    Leaning back
    and Being
    Rock Star Siren!!!

  306.  #306Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 7:53 pm

    lovetoD #294-5 and Emerson…
    Yes, I too get those feelings of
    I will forever be alone… especially around the holidays///
    Yes, I choose to be single
    We’ve all had options we havn’t chosen…
    I’d love to be in a forever relationship…
    NOT starting from the beginning…
    I’ve been dating for WAY too LONG…
    and then
    like you all…
    I look at alll the abundance,
    Love, Friendship, Kindness.
    Beauty that I have EVERYDAY
    EVERY moment…
    Natalina shared a new technic with me…
    When we feel this…
    Say to yourself…
    Ohhh… Azure…. I see how important
    having a lasting loveing, relationship
    is to you…
    sit here and talk to me about how much
    that means to you…
    and sit and listen to you, give you hugs.
    Actually have a dialogue…
    It feels really good!!!

  307.  #307Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    Liquid L…
    reading about Your walk
    I feel sooo relaxed, calm and peaceful…
    You sound happy…

  308.  #308Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Indigo #283…
    Ahhhh… lovely lady…
    How interesting to read about how you have reached a peaceful place now
    with your expectations around your parents,,,
    That feels very profound reading about it…

  309.  #309Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Gear #399
    Ohhh… myyy…
    Such shining examples of using Rori tools…
    I feel inspired when reading
    about how you are navigating
    the online dating!!!

  310.  #310Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    I certainly know THAT feeling!!!

  311.  #311Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Millie #287
    I feel excited reading this…
    “I need to focus more on a man being present and his actions rather than his romantic words.”

  312.  #312Azure Blu on December 20, 2014 at 8:10 pm


  313.  #313Beloved on December 20, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Aww, AzureBlue, thank you! (((AzureBlue))) back atcha!
    It feels light and sweet and funny to me to realize that – I didn’t feel ‘scared’, or…how to put this…I didn’t feel afraid of the fear, the fear wasn’t the same as feeling frightened. Which was cool, because my thoughts and feelings off and on since then have been about feeling good about feeling deeply intimate with fear.

    Just the night before, I was admiring a friend’s tie-dyes (which I love – on *other people*, ha) and because she learned from my ex, a lot of the patterns were recognizable and I was feeling relaxed and at ease so the memories of him sort of welled up and I felt a wave of acheypain roll through my heart and tears came to my eyes. I really did love him, really did want stuff to work out with him, and though I felt my heart hurt, it was a releasing kind of feeling. It felt good to feel in touch with it and feel it move through, as if it had been deep inside and only just then could surface and …how to explain it? Become part of my whole self and not just stuck in one place. Integrated. I felt as if my heart just healed a little more and that it’s feeling more ready to love again. My heart was just really broken, is all, and I needed time before I could really love again.

    I know there is still more bubbling under the surface because I’ve been overeating. So I’m addressing that, and giving myself permission to just have some fun over the holidays and not worry about finding a temp job, which just typing immediately catapulted me into feeling worried about not getting an apartment. Sigh…! So human!

    Good night and sweet dreams, sirens!

  314.  #314Indigo on December 21, 2014 at 4:01 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I could use some love directed my way today.

    I am feeling really shaky for some reason, head full of fog, really frightened and confused.

    I had a chocolate decorating course this morning, and I nearly cancelled because I just felt this strong urge to want to curl up in bed and not do anything and drink copious glasses of wine.

    Could use a friend to just be with… don’t want to do anything while I’m feeling this way.

    Love to all x

  315.  #315Gear on December 21, 2014 at 4:21 am

    LL #231/232

    Feels Totally turnoff. It feels icky, yucky, weird. Have you expressed your feelings to him every time he changed? I know I constantly remind myself to engage my feeling and my heart, even if he is just visiting. At the end, each incident is an opportunity to heal me, to grow me…

    This week I had a incident, a guy I went out with, text me after, he wished he could hold me. I texthim that “I feel good and feel embarrassed” he asked why embarrassed, I text, “I don’t have romantic feelings for you.” Then he blamed me to go out with him, I text, “I feel like I have to defend myself now, and I don’t like it.” Then he asked me share with him of the dinner cost, to send him a check of $15.47. ( 🙂 )
    I text later, “it feels icky.” He text, “I do not need to know how it feels….” I kept texting, “it feels yucky….” He text, “send the check, didn’t make it become ugly.” …I text, “I am feeling scared.” Actually I felt threatened. But I text, I felt scared, was also true. Then he stopped. Text me the next day that “you are safe, don’t be afraid.”

    It feels embarrassed to be asked split that way. I actually did offer to split at the end of the dinner, but he didn’t let me.

    I feel grateful for the opportunity to practice, to feel humiliated, without feeling guilty, or trying to fix anything, or trying to cover it up with other feelings or masks…

  316.  #316Gear on December 21, 2014 at 4:29 am

    Mandy #31/32/179

    It feels icky/turnoff…

    I found the healing for me began when I stop living in my head and express what I feel at the moment, whether it is good or bad. “Trust your boundary, follow your feels, and chose words…” Learning to use feeling words was a big step for me, still is. Once I am able to express my feelings authentically, I am out of the pit…I hope you will feel better soon…

  317.  #317Gear on December 21, 2014 at 4:38 am

    Azure Blu #300,

    Awww, your date sounds fantastic. Reading your post feels warm and soft. So sweet…
    Keep us updated, let us share your joy…

  318.  #318Gear on December 21, 2014 at 4:45 am

    Indigo #310,

    Awww, I am feeling sorry that you are not feeling well. It’s ok to feel like hurl up in bed, it’s ok to cancel the engagement in the morning…
    Sending you chicken soup, and a warm pink blanket of love to pull over your head… Get well and feel better soon…

  319.  #319Victoria on December 21, 2014 at 5:56 am

    You might have the flu in which case I recommend fresh lemon juice in order to get large doses of vit C.
    Alternatively, you may have endorphin deficiency.
    This is treatable with
    2. Exercisr
    3. Chocolate.
    I am sending you all my love.
    Dr. Viktoria 🙂

  320.  #320Sophie on December 21, 2014 at 6:07 am

    (((Indigo))) sending you love

    I’m feeling wobbly too. I have made it to the beach which is so beautiful. I feel much more optimistic than in the city. However, I feel edgy. I felt really worried I was nearly out of money but a wonderful friend lent me a whole batch so I feel safe now for xmas and new year. Then, the manager of this resort gave me unwanted attentions – coming INTO my room yesterday and today to ‘check everything was okay’ and then today after staring at the bed for ages asked me if he could have a hug 🙁 I hope he is just young and silly but I want to feel comfortable and safe – the doors here are really flimsy I feel more edgy about my stuff too. All these little things make me feel weepy – and then I had this craving for a man but only because I want protection. My man cravings are always about what they can provide me with (or what I think they can provide me with). When I feel happy, I’m just happy – I don’t feel wanting for anything.

    Then, I felt uncomfortable because I’m working on honouring my worth with this money thing. And low and behold test number one. I was asked whether I would consider lowering my price by 17 dollars a piece – I honestly do not think I charge enough already. When you’re experienced,skilled and talented but still not able to make ends meet than you’re not charging enough, right? So I wrote a very polite message that I wouldn’t lower my fees. That’s fine but now I feel fear that if she comes back and agrees to my fee then I’ve somehow got to be super human amazing which feels like pressure – just as I’m building my confidence…

    Feel off balance right now – it doesn’t feel good – I like the positive momentum – feeling safe, appreciated, valued, having fun – not unsure, and wobbly

  321.  #321Sophie on December 21, 2014 at 6:18 am

    Gear 311 – oh yuk how horrible! I would have just stopped texting back – block! I have had men turn aggressive with me when they haven’t hear what they wanted to hear. It does feel threatening. I wouldn’t allow it to continue now I’d just block. I feel happy that you got to a point though where he ‘backed down’ from his poor behaviour and I hope you don’t feel threatened any more.

    Azure Blu – your date sounds lovely 🙂 And Natalina’s advice about talking to your ‘longing’ self

    Victoria – ha your comment to Indigo made me laugh. The thought of sex right now to me is like ‘yuk!’ Dominique may have something to say to me about that? 🙂 Perhaps, it’s self protective and therefore a good thing, or perhaps I could be trying to open up…mmmm…no…maybe yuk will do for now!

  322.  #322Sophie on December 21, 2014 at 6:22 am

    Indigo – have you got a friend you can be with? I’m feeling that today too -I’m missing my friends deeply, and my family, and just anyone who will communicate with me really!

  323.  #323Indigo on December 21, 2014 at 6:32 am

    Gear 314 – Many thanks for this thoughtful message, that chicken soup and warm pink blanket would feel especially good right now. Thank you for your care

    Dr Viktoria – thank you for making me laugh, it truly is the best medicine 🙂 I feel as if I’m having an inevitable downswing from all the positive feelings and strength I’ve been feeling recently – you know, what goes up must come down. :/ Funnily enough I got offered sex from my one time lover that I told you all about, but I had no difficulty turning it down. The thought of sex makes me feel like vomiting at the moment. I did go to that chocolate décor class this morning, so I can tick that off your list, and I went for a long walk with my brother (tick exercise). You are super perceptive. Thank you

    Sophie – thank you for the hugs. I am hopefully going out for a drink with a friend later on. I feel particularly thankful for my family today. I feel very sorry that the manager of the hotel violated your privacy, that would have felt very awful for me too. Please stay safe. I hope you feel better.

    You guys are a big support xx

  324.  #324Victoria on December 21, 2014 at 6:44 am

    I totally agree that what goes up must come down. I saw this with me, with Labbit, with you… we keep it toghether quite well for a while and then eventually we break down… I dont know whether it will be like that always, or we will be getting better at steeering our wheels…
    With all honesty, I think masturbation is a great natural remedy against the blues. This id why men do it practically all the time with or without a relationship. We women just do not recognize as easily as them that this is what we need to do. My 2 cents.

  325.  #325Emerson on December 21, 2014 at 8:18 am

    Does anyone else feel like they are talking to a child sometimes when talking to cd’s? Some men seem so childish, I’m talking about 40+ years old, feels like I’m having a conversation with a goofy 14 year old. Still like to party, laughs at ridiculous childish things, teasing, pics with lots of boozing, I just can’t stand it. Seems to be Lot of those on pof.
    Feeling turned off

  326.  #326Emerson on December 21, 2014 at 8:19 am

    I feel prickly and critical.

  327.  #327T-Girl on December 21, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Hi Sirens, it has been awhile. Just thought I would pop in and say hi.

    Hi Turquoise – I have been wondering what you have been up to lately 🙂 Hope you are feeling better.

    April Rose – are you not in your relationship anymore?

    J and I just celebrated our 6 month wedding anniversary. This is still going so great, I can’t believe how much I love this man and how much he loves me. For those who don’t know me, I met him AFTER I discovered Rori (thank goodness). We are so busy right now getting ready for Christmas as he has a HUGE family. We recently took a small trip to celebrate is 50th birthday and had such a wonderful time.

    I have been busy working 10 hr days and selling Younique but I try to read here every so often. So many names and stories that I don’t know.

    I hope you all have a wonderful holiday!



  328.  #328Liquid Light on December 21, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Gear 311, That’s awful. In that situation, I too would definitely have stopped texting immediately. If someone is being disrespectful or I feel unsafe in anyway, I always immediately stop all communication with that person. I hope you don’t have to deal with that jerk again.

  329.  #329Liquid Light on December 21, 2014 at 9:22 am

    Emerson, Yes, I feel the same way. So many of the men that I encounter out there are childish, disrespectful, lack manners, and don’t really have that much to offer. Its gotten to the point now where I assume the worst and sometimes, when I least expect it, a gentleman appears. I believe that they are out there….you just have to “kiss a lot of frogs” to find them.

  330.  #330Dominique on December 21, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Sophie – 317 – Sex with self can feel amazing, soothing, heart and spirit opening, loving, nurturing, and simply yummy good. Just a thought. 🙂


  331.  #331Mistea1 on December 21, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    OK people, I am freaking out a little here. I feel like I am completely batty.

    I’ve arranged another date with new guy. This am when I went to the service I felt like I would burst into tears because the date was not with MusicTd and I was listening to him play. Then I talked on the phone with NewguyCd. I looked up onto the wall and saw MusicTd instead.
    This is extremely unfair to newguycd who is behaving very well. What a dork I am. OK i’m gonna fix this. somehow. ….

  332.  #332Mandy on December 21, 2014 at 12:40 pm


    it happened again last night, the people thing and people coming up to J and talking to him and neither of them bothering to introduce the person to me or include me in the conversation…

    and it was because I was talking to a man, that he went and did this, and then when I became worried at one point because I didn’t know where he was when he said he was going to the bathroom and he was gone for like 20 minutes and I was left alone sitting…
    So I found him and when he was talking to someone we know when I found him she was startled and he made me feel guilty about it afterwards.

    Check check check mate…

    I feel so mad and disappointed and like i do not want to go out on New Year’s with him. I go out EVERY New Year’s. This year I don’t think I want to.

    I am SO sick of being snubbed, ignored, and made to feel guilty when there’s social interaction. If he wants to go out, he can make a buck and take himself out I think.

    I’m going to see my SirenCD tomorrow, hopefully that will make me feel better…

    I am so tired of this weird social interaction crap with him, genuinely sick of the little games he plays.

    Every single time he sees me GENUINELY having fun talking to someone, he makes sure to find a pretty girl and talk to her and make me feel ignored by basically not even acknowledging my existence when Iam standing right there. I don’t deserve it and I’m sick of it, so I think i will not go out for awhile. Certainly not on my own dime, anyway.

  333.  #333Mistea1 on December 21, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Mandy 328

    Thank you for posting this. I am having the same thing happen from MusicTd. Somehow I am being punished, ignored etc. I don’t see how this has anything to do with me because we have had so little interaction. I want to listen to him practice and also play in public. I am glad to know that this is apparently not all that unusual. It doesn’t help anything though.

  334.  #334Mandy on December 21, 2014 at 1:36 pm


    Wow, it’s tough for me to start to write….but the feeling…that feeling you get when you feel left out, ignored, in the cold, in the dark…alone…

    The rejection feeling, it goes WAY back for me, having been a social outcast for the majority of my upbringing, always being left out of games and parties because someone had a problem with me, so yes, it is my own stuff there, when I feel left out it is one of those hurts that runs to the core.

    But really, and I don’t know if this peek into my little world helps, hope it does, but to me, it is very obvious he is behaving in this way to get my attention or to get a certain outcome from the situation or me.
    Like if I’ve been chatting with a man, I feel genuinely friendly and interested, and he never pipes up, I will introduce him to the person and he just never joins in, BUT after that, it’s like he feels better when he purposely has social interaction with the most attractive females in the place, and then purposefully leaves me out of their conversation as if it were super special or something, he purposefully doesn’t introduce me, he acts like I’m not there… I feel it’s a one-up, on his part, a punishment for me, a thing he does when he feels inadequate because I’m talking to someone and showing them genuine, happy energy, he feels left out and jealous and it’s really not my problem. My mom said she noticed he does have a manipulative streak.

    J usually asks me to text him when he’s at work, and I rarely do, but today I’d woken up and just had enough of it, and I thought, oh, I have something to text him, and he wants me to, so I’ll do it…

    I texted him and told him, I don’t want to go out for awhile because I’m feeling all-out sick and tired of the social weirdness crap, and uncomfortable feelings arising from it. He knows what I am talking about, so I didn’t have to say much, but, he called me right after, and he didn’t ask any questions, he just said “Ok” in a very understanding voice, which was weird to me.

    Uh, that was easy? I didn’t even get into it, I just stated how I felt and what I wanted/didn’t want to do next. And he just agreed, no argument, no fight.

    Shrug? Now I feel neutral-ish, I said what I wanted to say, I said how I feel and what I don’t want to do, and got a good response, so I’m feeling pretty satisfied, actually. He acknowledged my feelings. I have honored my icky feelings, so I feel better for now.

  335.  #335Mandy on December 21, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    PS – just to be clear, when I said my feeling message, I did not tell him I blamed him for it, I just said that I felt sick of all of the social weirdness and a couple things that happened that didn’t like so I don’t want to go out for awhile. Had I assigned blame, he probably would’ve come out verbally swinging.

  336.  #336prplpsn28 on December 21, 2014 at 2:45 pm

    Well…I must say I really am not sure how I feel right now. New guy “C” has not been coming forward at all. Ex “H” has been coming forward aalot. I had seen H while I was out with friends last night. I just did my thing with no regards to him and what he was doing. A while after I had gotten home he actually showed up on my doorstep. I wasn’t quite sure how to handle that. We didn’t really talk about much. He hugged me and held me. Even after that closeness with him I can’t really say that I’m feeling anxious or upset or anything. Maybe I’m kinda numb right now. Idk. And I was really hoping to see “C”. I do feel kinda disappointed about that. I have no clue what’s going on.

  337.  #337Gear on December 21, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Mandy 328,

    I strongly recommend the program “targeting the right man”.

  338.  #338Gear on December 21, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Mandy 330,

    Good for you!!! I feel so proud of you voiced your feelings! Without worrying about the consequences (no control of the outcome). You are right, you honored your feelings…
    Go Siren !

  339.  #339Gear on December 21, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    T- girl,

    How long took you to get married? Feel So happy for you!

    Sophie 317 & LL 324
    I am practicing unzip my heart, engage my feelings and my heart, even though he is just a visitor. That was a perfect opportunity for that. Thank you for your empathy and understanding.

  340.  #340Mistea1 on December 21, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    Mandy 330-331,
    Thanks, It’ll be interesting to find out what happens after you both process what you said.

    He did this one little obvious ignoring tactic one day. then I ignored him which then turned him in to Mr. chatty kathy and I ignored that too.

    Then a couple days later I was late getting to my meeting. I paused outside the door to remove my coat and there he was coming out from a darkened room across the hall. I think he was waiting until I showed up to come out of the room. Sometimes I have thought this was intuition but this was too obvious. I smiled at him cheerfully and whispered, ‘my lateness, probably genetic’ or some such. He did the male version of Rori’s gutteral sounds and kept on going. I thought later that what I said let him know I knew he was waiting for me to show up.

    So why bother to do this elaborate appearing to me if he really doesn’t want me around. It’s hard for me to catch him in the right spot to speak to him as he keeps himself a moving target. Why is he trying to dominate me in this non-relationship?

    I noticed that you texted him. I could put a note in his box in the office I suppose with my feeling message. Then he could reread this more than once and I wouldn’t have to risk saying it in public.

    Gear, ‘Targetingthe right man’, probably that is right. I was targeted by the wrong man for sure.

  341.  #341Mandy on December 21, 2014 at 4:39 pm

    Ooh! Mistea, you’ve got me type-type-typing dearest Siren, I feel so eager to share with you, I can’t get it out fast enough lol…

    Well I was lucky, because J asked me to text him, so he was asking for it so it was okay to me, it felt very okay.

    I do send him an email sometimes if I’m very very very upset, with my feeling messages, but I got the impression after awhile that that was somewhat stressful to him because it is one giant message without him getting to talk back, lol.

    I feel BEST when my emotions come through, J asks me what’s wrong and then I explain myself very simply in a feeling message. Often this ends up very very positive and I get a sympathetic vibe that is genuine from him. That’s my favorite way of having my feelings honored just because it is so natural, nothing’s forced, and it feels “safe” i.e., no risk of freaking him out, lol.

    But Mistea, I feel SO glad we have each other to talk to about this…I feel it is when my man is drinking that he gets this way; I have problems with drinking too – I could be called a problem drinker, so could he – it “makes” us feel feelings that aren’t real, like anger or it makes us think something’s happening that isn’t. So when he does drink and this happens, he honestly can’t believe it sometimes when I tell him something he did when he was drinking. If I told him how manipulative he was being last night in a manner he can hear (a Love Script), he probably would say oh my gosh, I’m so sorry…I actually didn’t figure this out until I started writing here on the blog today, it’s one of his “Problem drinking’ behaviors.

    Oh, and Yes, Gear, I will admit J has some toxicity, but the ladies here all know very well I am a woman who likes to work it out, if at all possible 🙂 – If I became a coach, I believe that would be my strongest characteristic much like Dominique, I am IN LOVE with how she does things, wow, SO MUCH love there just coming out her ears 🙂 I thought I was screwed when I found out J isn’t as sexually driven as I am, but I figured that one out with her 🙂 HAHA, still gloating on that one!

    Targeting the Right man maybe for dating but for this I believe Toxic Men is the one i need next and I have been wanting it for a year, trying to save up but gosh it is hard to save these days with student loans, rent and bills…:P I do prefer email sessions that way I can go along and pay as I go…but hey…GREAT idea for New Year’s…starting fresh with a program…

    Dominique taught me to let myself have little treats each time I can…so that would be a nice treat for myself…that and I think Rori could make tons of money just by recording relaxation/visual imagery recordings, you know those ones that say lie down with your hands by your side and breathe deeply…because her voice always calms me, I can feel those so yummy feelings of calm travel down my spine and soothe me when I listen to her, and I can do it in the mornings when J is still asleep….

  342.  #342Mistea1 on December 21, 2014 at 5:43 pm


    Thanks for the message about the way feeling messages are helpful to you.

    I composed a long feeling message to him which I will deliver to his box. He is in a busy time of the year right now and will leave end of December on a trip for two and a half weeks. Perhaps he will reflect on this while he is gone. I feel somewhat better even before I am sending it off. Even if he tosses it I will never know and at least it is out there and perhaps someone will read it.

  343.  #343Lovetodance on December 21, 2014 at 5:49 pm


    Always the both sides of the coins. ….so glad you Are taking care of yourself beautiful siren xoxox

  344.  #344Gear on December 21, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    Well, Mr. desire A text me 2/3 hours before the date said he was not feeling well, he was getting a cold, wanted to reschedule to tuesday or Wednesday. I didn’t doubt what he said at all. I text that I felt sorry that he was not feeling well, and I was free on tuesday.

    Now that I kind of feeling icky. Feeling weird. I kind of feeling he has been dragging his feet from the beginning. He has not made advanced dates with plans for the 1st two dates. And I don’t like him texting to cancel the date, without calling.

    Should I just sit on my soup/feelings, until he calls me? Then do I express my feelings to him? His reason was he was getting cold, don’t I sound unreasonable if I expressed that I felt weird?

  345.  #345Tereana on December 21, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Hello Sirens!!

    It has been a long time, but tonight, I just feel like I want to check in : ) This has been a really supportive place for me, and I just feel so grateful for it. And I’ve learned some new information about myself – well, it’s new to me. And now that I know it, all the difficulties that I’ve been having, with relationships, and even with finance, now make sense in a whole new light. And it’s a scary thing. I was actually given a diagnosis of Borderline Personality. (I don’t like to say “disorder,” even though this is technically right. It’s the way I am “ordered” right now. It can be rearranged.)

    And what’s amazing about this is that I realized that, even though this has been true about me for years, without me knowing about it, I’ve been really working on this issue through Rori’s tools. Getting to know my feelings and triggers, and finding a ton of new awareness about them, plus being able to practice self-love (even when I don’t feel particularly like doing it), has been incredibly valuable. Invaluable, even.

    And now that I know, I feel strangely more attractive. I feel radiant, even. I feel that ALL of me is “there.” I feel more vulnerable, more exposed, more REAL. Because I can finally say, “This is me.” I’m not pretending that I’m “all ok.” I’m not trying to fit myself into a “normal” box that just isn’t my size. I can say, to myself, or whomever, “This is me. This is weird. This is how I deal with it.” It is freeing. It is truly, and honestly, a very freeing thing for me.

    And I am getting hit on, sooooo much. I got back into OK Cupid, and I’m getting nice message there all the time. Men who really want to get to know me, and much fewer of the “Hey, what’s up?” messages (you know what I mean). I even had a guy ask for my number at work the other day. 🙂

    And I feel SO much more confident to go out with guys now. I know a lot more about where I stand with ME. Which means I can be way more communicative about what they are doing that makes me happy, or that doesn’t, without being judgmental. Again, so great.

    And I’m on here for a typical reason, right now.

    Remember the guy who hit on me at work? Well, let’s call him AJ. So AJ was texting me pretty hard. Every day, little messages. Making conversation. Being available, even when I wasn’t. And getting into some “dirty” things, which I (hopefully graciously) skirted around. But then suddenly last night, he stopped texting. I simply said that I was going to sleep around 10:30 p.m. Kind of early for a saturday, sure. But was tired. And suddenly nothing. No, “Good night.” No good morning, either. Simply nothing during the day. Luckily, I had a coffee date with another man, plus some friend activities to keep me busy. I haven’t texted him all day. I am conscious of wanting to “lean forward.” I want to “explain.” I want to say, “Hey, yeah, I know it’s lame to go to bed early on a Saturday night, but…” And I really want to. I want to so bad. And that’s why I’m here – to help me not reach out to him. Because, as we all know, it’s best if he reaches out to me.

    He is a manly man. He likes sports (I know very little about them. It’s actually kind of nice to be a not-know-it-all for once). He’s fun. I actually (strangely) don’t mind his bantering around. In fact, I like it 🙂 I think I like him. So weird. He’s a white dude from Jersey. So not my type!!! But my type is really whatever isn’t my type. So therefore, he’s my type.


    He’s out of town right now, so what’s he going to do?

    I had a nice coffee date today with a man who is “more my type,” (though I felt very little attraction to him, to be honest). He’s a good guy who wants to see me again. So ok. It’s not like I’m married to anyone yet.

    And, for an extra fun bonus, my high school crush (who is now married to someone else) has told me that he basically has a thing for me – I think I might have mentioned this before, but he said it again to me. It just tickles me every time. The tables have turned so much! When I was young, I pined after him so much. Now that he is with someone else, he tells me he is attracted to me. LOL!!! The Universe is Hilarious sometimes….

    Oy. Well…I’m kind of looking forward to hearing from this AJ. He’s probably just busy with work. I know that he was working this weekend. So I figure I might hear from him this week. We’ll see.

    Meanwhile, it’s Christmas, and Hanukkah, and everything else. So happy everything to everyone. Happy Solstice, Siren Island.

    And thanks for all your support!!!!

  346.  #346Gear on December 21, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Mr. desire A- I feel he is not available, not ready to move on in his life, dragging his feet, but is this something that I can express to him?
    As to me, I don’t feel I am enthusiastically pursued, I am not getting his full attention. Or cared for, or cherished. Is this too early reason to express my feeling and walk away? We only had two dates, and communicated 2.5 weeks since online.

    Am I spending too much time thinking about him? It seems to me, too much effort from my side I feel…

    Any feedback?

  347.  #347Labbit on December 21, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    281 Emerson — Have you read this post from Rori?

    I love doing the tool here of writing down my problem and then riffing to the underlying want — it’s very helpful for me when I’m not sure what I’m actually feeling.

    Turn the fears you’re experiencing into the wants you really feel and it will help a lot!!

  348.  #348Labbit on December 21, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    320 Victoria, Indigo and all Sirens — I am noticing that every time I find myself in a situation where I’m not sure what to do and I feel like maybe I didn’t handle it as well as I could have, that’s when my old fears and behaviors start to creep in. My confidence falters a bit and then all the second-guessing and self-doubt begins. It’s hard because it throws both me and TenderCD for a loop. We can both feel something off in each other’s energy and it’s very easy to create distance between us quickly.

    Luckily, the more comfy I get with the tools, and especially learning how to treat myself gently and settle into myself instead of bursting out dramatically, I’m finding that the wobbles steady much more quickly each time. At times I feel like a toddler learning to walk…a kid learning a new language…a foreigner dropped in a country where I don’t speak the language and don’t know the customs. When I treat it as fun…as an adventure with lots of treasures to discover…it becomes those things and more.

    One wonderful thing that I see happening for myself is that a confident vibe feels normal to me now…and I can tell I’m off when I feel FEARFUL. This is the complete opposite of how I felt a year ago, even six months ago. Do I still sink back into fear? Totally. I know that will never go away completely. But it’s no longer falling into fear followed by panic followed by despair followed by pain. It’s just fear, noticing the fear, embracing it without giving it energy, and pulling myself back out to something that feels better.

    I knock myself off my mountaintop but it’s easier to climb back up now. 🙂 I have noticed better and better men (and people really) showing up around me and that helps too. They have more positive, energetic, supportive vibes. We help each other correct ourselves when things are off. Like with the fitness instructor guy I was so sure I’d alienated…my vibe was back to normal after a couple of days and sure enough today we were right back to CD-flirting. He pursued me hard to flirt today! It felt great.

  349.  #349Labbit on December 21, 2014 at 7:44 pm

    Beloved, thank you so much for posting those articles on anger! It’s an emotion I don’t really understand in myself and reading how to get in touch with it and love it is incredibly helpful.

    I used to think of myself as someone who rarely got angry but I am seeing it in little ways more often than I thought. I sometimes get snappy, can’t take criticism, get defensive. There is a big knot inside of me that feels ready to untie itself. I’m getting a lot of practice right now with the stress of the holidays in expressing myself without blaming anyone else for how I feel or trying to control other people even though I so desperately want them to do just do what I say, LOL. I’ve noticed a lack of compassion in what I would have said historically…it’s a challenge to learn this new way of expressing myself now, but I like it. I feel it will be so much easier to connect with people once I learn how to do this.

  350.  #350Labbit on December 21, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    This weekend, every time TenderCD has tried to come in close to me — physically or emotionally — I’ve noticed this little voice inside of me going ‘nonononono!’ And it’s so weird, because I totally WANT him to come closer to me and yet there’s this little old part of me that’s scared. I think maybe something is about to happen, maybe not something major but I feel a different kind of energy from him coming towards me and it scares me a little bit because it’s so intent, so intense, so solid and sure. It makes me feel a little quivering sensation.

    I love it, I’m very turned on by it, and yet I’m afraid of it all at the same time. It makes me close down a bit…like my mind is saying “oh no, we can’t let things get THAT good, silly girl.” I have to back off a little and coax myself into opening up, into letting TenderCD come really close and touch my heart, feel my vulnerabilities and love those vulnerabilities. Let him see all of me and have faith that he will love every bit of me. There are parts of me I want to hide from him, mistakes and fears and anger I don’t want him to see. And yet another part of me doesn’t want to hide any of it, it’s just so intense for me when he gets close to those parts.

    Yesterday we were having a chat and our eyes locked, and I could feel him looking into me. I saw behind his eyes if it makes any sense…I could feel my pupils getting huge as I saw inside his mind, his soul. And he let me in so freely even as I could feel myself locking up, the walls frantically throwing themselves up inside of me. I gasped, I couldn’t breathe, I had to look away. Then I felt tempted again…I looked back, into his eyes again, and let him in just a little deeper.

    I still heard every word he said. I don’t know how. He’s had this amazing calm to him all weekend and it freaks me out a little, even as it feels delicious. I love it, and I want to steal it. But I know I can’t, I have to find my own amazing calm. Breathing. Breathing…

  351.  #351Mandy on December 21, 2014 at 8:36 pm


    I hope it works out with the letter. I always feel a huge lump of stress leave me when I write and send…or just speak….

  352.  #352Turquoise on December 21, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    Hi T-girl! Congrats on the anniversary! So glad to hear you are happy. 🙂 much love to you!

  353.  #353Indigo on December 21, 2014 at 9:47 pm


    Thank so much you for the hugs and thoughtful message

  354.  #354Indigo on December 21, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    Gear 342,

    I do not want to tell you what to do, because I do not know what is going on with your guy.

    I can only relate my own experience. There was a guy I dated briefly (and he still keeps in touch) whom I got this vibe from. I just got this sense from the get-go that he was not emotionally available, still had baggage from a previous relationship, still had some maturing to do, and I turned out to be right. He organized the first date enthusiastically enough, the second date slightly less so, and after that I always felt this “dragging feet” feeling from him. Something was always coming up – work, family, friends – until it became outright flaky behavior. I told him I felt disappointed, and I ended it. I didn’t want to be hard on him – but for me, it wasn’t really about his reasons, which I thought were sketchy at best, it was about how I felt in this relationship.

    I know this is a long way of saying this, but I truly think it comes back to how you feel, and honouring that. I think that is what we are all learning to do (not coming so much from our masculine energy, which does the thinking/rationalizing/planning) but how do I feel in this moment, and go with that. I like to really check in with how I’m feeling and think about all the different ways I could approach a situation, and go with the one that feels best to me.

  355.  #355Beloved on December 21, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    I am noticing tonight, how something has shifted in me.
    I met a man who was our server at a restaurant yesterday, and I feel so, so attracted to him. I am feeling drawn to go back and give him my number.
    Because…what attracted me to him? What sort of blew me away?
    Is that he is kind. I mean, KIND. Not ‘nice’, or acting like a server or anything, just very genuine and kind, very natural and comfortable with himself. I feel like I really want to get to know this guy based on those qualities. I don’t feel “sparks” or “chemistry” or “turned on”, I feel something deep and safe and relaxed.
    So, maybe I will get in touch with him, and maybe I will sit with these feelings, maybe I need to get in touch with my own kindness and see how someone can be drawn to my qualities and be-ing instead of that spark of sexual attraction. He was just so…at ease, and real, and …how to say it? No sharp edgy feelings, just…easy.

  356.  #356waterfall on December 22, 2014 at 3:16 am

    (((((Indigo))))) (((((Mistea))))) (((((Mandy)))))

    Hi sirens, I thought I would come and chat on the blog but, sometimes I don’t feel I have much to say.

    @ FW – your wise insights are astounding. How did you get to be so wise? It is truly astounding sometimes. You say your piece so clearly and without fear or prejudice which is a sight to behold. Everyone should feel really safe around you.

    @ Dominique – you too are beyond wise and kind. Words can’t express the inspiration you bring to me on this blog. You are so constantly consistent with your gentle loving words and advice.

    Sirens, I see we are talking about expressing our needs without blaming the other person. I personally massively struggle with this. I seem to blame, blame, blame…

    Please allow me to riff a little here:

    Well, where do I begin. I am still in touch with my ex D. When I am not with him I miss him soooo much, and out of the blue he will always send me a little text or email. There tends to be a pattern where I will respond and we will end up chatting. I know I am responsible for this, but to be honest I don’t seem to have the strength to change this.

    Especially at this time of year when I feel lonely and susceptible to pangs of wishing I was feeling nice and snuggled in a loving relationship.

    Anyway, last night after a couple of texts he called me and we ended up chatting for a while. He keeps asking to see me and I said I would only feel comfortable seeing him for a lunch date or something fairly brief. He told me this would not be enough for him.

    I literally wanted to put the phone down on him. I felt so incensed, so manipulated. In short I felt that my needs were very far from being met.

    He then started to tell me that I will never be happy as I am always looking for perfection and perfection doesn’t exist. I then told him that I need a man to really be there for me. I need someone who can keep their promises and really makes sure that they are taking care of my needs. I told him how my ex-boyfriend always took care for me, always made sure I was okay, hardly ever left my side at social occasions, always made sure I had a drink etc. D just didn’t respond to this. It’s like he wants to go out with me but ONLY on his terms. He just wants me to be there for him, but he NEVER wants to give to me.

    I feel so confused. I know I deserve better but I can’t seem to get out of these interactions with him.

    Also, he constantly tells me how much he loves me and adores me and didn’t realise how much I meant to him until I left him. Seriously, I have heard it all before.

    But what is scary is that we can’t seem to walk away from each other. I still feel I ‘care’ for him, and want to know he is okay. I guess deep down I am hanging out for him to ‘change’ – though I know he won’t.

    I feel so confused….

    I realise I am in co-dependent territory. I am doing everything I can to get out of it, and to not get to wound up in his world. I am out CD-ing and meeting people, but still this loneliness and yearning for him physically and emotionally won’t go.

    He still has the power to make me jealous. I don’t know how to get over my feelings.. Do they just go in time… hmmm…. sirens, I can’t see the wood for the trees….

  357.  #357Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 4:01 am

    I will chime in only on the jealosy part. I saw a former boyfirend some time ago, after not having seen him for 10 years or so. I had a long and difficult relationship with him- we kept breaking up and making up, we could not be together, but we could not be apart either. He used to make me very jealous while we were together… Anyhow, we saw each other in a restaurant, after more than 10 years, both of us have moved on big time. We see each other as old friends, thats all. Turns up, he starts to flirt with the waitress, just like before…Turns up, I get jealous, or triggered, whatever you call it, just like while I was dating him… I was so confused for days afterwards. Lately, I just figured, that this was just one more confirmation and he and I could not work together. It could not have worked, whatever I had done. So, piece.

  358.  #358Indigo on December 22, 2014 at 4:01 am

    Thanks for the hugs, Waterfall.

    Whoo, so much leaning forward today. I feel all shaky and confused and filled with conflicting feelings today, leaning back is feeling very hard.

    I know I don’t always have to get it right, but sometimes I feel so driven to do what is right that I don’t know how to act. Feel so filled with feeling today. It’s strange being so sensitive!

  359.  #359Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 4:11 am

    Indigo darling,
    I leaned forward a little bit today. Tiny little bit.
    Thank God the Universe did not explode this time.
    I called him first (usually I never call, but wait for him to call me), and when he did not answer, I sent him an “I love you” text this morning.
    I know I should not be doing this, but last time we spoke, he kept asking me to call him once in a while, that he loves to get calls from me, and so I thought, ok, he asked for it, so it is not really leaning forward…Well, it is…
    So, he called back eventually and made arrangements for a date tomorrow, and I was thinking, damn, I wish I could see you TODAY and I was thinking, if I had not lean back, he would have asked to see me today.
    But, this time, after we fixed the date for tomorrow, next thing he says is, and, how about today, can I also see you today?
    Oh wow. Sometime I can’t go wrong!

  360.  #360Gear on December 22, 2014 at 4:14 am


    Thank you for sharing, I understand what you talked about and I know my situation as well. On first date,I asked him when was his last relationship, he told me 2.5 years and ended when he moved here 4 months ago. I was suspecting that would be a roadblock. Sure enough it is.

    I know I ought to stay in my feminine energy and do what I feel like to do, just still a little bit confused as whether to express what I feel to him. It’s the technical part in applying the tools that I am seeking advice. Should I wait a little bit longer while I am seeing others or should I end things with him. I do feel like to express what I feel, yet, I don’t feel we are acquainted enough to text him my feelings out of the blue.

    Any others?

  361.  #361Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 4:37 am

    If you have more than 3 men in the rotation, it seems to me dropping him would not be a big deal. But you need at least CDs for proper CDing, and if he is one of them, may be you could keep him for practice until a replacement comes up.
    This sounds terrible may be… may be I am a really mean and calculating woman…. Uhhhhh. Please let us know what you decide to do and how it goes, this is very useful for all of us to know what works how…

  362.  #362Indigo on December 22, 2014 at 5:10 am


    I obviously still have a long way to go with leaning back. I knew that, but today I felt it. Oh well, life goes on.

    I’m glad yours went well for you.

  363.  #363Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 5:14 am

    I don’t know whether it went ok, bur at least it was not terrible like last time when I made a major lean forward and I ended having a big fight with him…
    I am waiting for him to come and he is already 15 minutes late… as he always is.
    What can you do…

  364.  #364Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 5:17 am

    You have the movie date tonight, right?
    I keep my fingers crossed for you to regain all your feminine powers and feel in your most goddess-y way!

  365.  #365Victoria on December 22, 2014 at 5:21 am

    he called that he will be another 15-20 minites late…
    why oh why… Why did God not give you just a little bit of time-management skills, but he made you so good-looking and sexy…. I am practically drooling over him…

  366.  #366Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 5:37 am

    Mistea #338
    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    For me it does feel good to put my feelings onto
    paper or here on Siren Island…

    I don’t remember if you shared this or not…
    How long did you and Musictd date?

  367.  #367Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Waterfall #352
    Darling Siren…
    I too went through something similar with a CD
    We dated for 1 year (and then I found Rori)
    I realized I was ready for a committed relationship…
    He was loving, kind, fun took me on great dates and vacations…
    but he wasn’t ready for a comittement…
    Sooo I started CDing… we still dated off and on…
    I knew he wasn’t good for me…
    He started treating me rudely…
    ignoring, lies, disapearing for months..
    I COULDN’T stop contacting him…
    or answering immediately when he contacted me…
    I was physically sick from all the anxiety, yearning and missing…
    Slowly but surely
    as I learned the Rori tools
    Learned to LOVE ME
    and kept visualizing what my Mr. Right sounded and felt like
    I was able to let him go…
    8 weeks went by and he contacted me
    and I was able to tell him NEVER to contact me again…
    It takes time
    but it will happen!

  368.  #368Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 5:57 am

    Darling Siren…
    I feel your confusion and anxiety…
    Do you have a date with D tonight?
    I am sending soft, gentle songs of peace and soothing blankets of love…

  369.  #369Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 6:22 am

    356 Gear — I wouldn’t do anything right now in your shoes. 🙂 It’s so early, you’ve only seen the man twice. Those butterflies you feel inside, and perhaps that intuitive voice of doubt, is worth paying attention to but it could also simply be your gremlins overreacting and trying to protect you in their own way.

    Early on, all you need to do is hang back and observe his behavior. If you were to tell him now that you feel ignored or like he isn’t cherishing you enough, even in the best-delivered feeling message it would be too much effort on your part right now. Give yourself at least a month or two with each man of doing nothing except watching and observing their behavior. Each man will show you who he is — you don’t have to do ANYTHING to find out! His actions or lack thereof will tell you everything you need to know.

    So if he messages, calls you, in those moments you choose how to respond. If he’s making small talk you can respond til you get bored and then back off until he asks you on another date. If he’s not messaging or calling you, don’t reach out to him. You’ll never know how he feels about you if you do the work for him. Just keep yourself busy, do things that make you feel good, hang out with friends or go to places where there are men! Keep yourself as lighthearted, free and un-attached to anyone or any outcome as you can right now. Keep yourself the center of your world. A man can only come in to visit when he asks, and when he asks for a date!

  370.  #370Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 6:34 am

    How authentic and beautiful are your feelings and your sharing about your time with Tender…
    Thank you sooo much for giving us a glimpse, once again, into this beautiful, scary, intimate
    interaction with Him…

    I love this… “I love it, I’m very turned on by it,
    and yet I’m afraid of it all at the same time.
    It makes me close down a bit…
    like my mind is saying “oh no, we can’t let things get THAT good, silly girl.”
    I have to back off a little and coax myself into
    opening up, into letting TenderCD come really close
    and touch my heart,
    feel my vulnerabilities and
    love those vulnerabilities.”
    I too have been experiencing some of this with Spirit…
    He is continuing to step up… ask for MORE time,
    more closeness and I find myself saying…
    Ohhh… shoot… this is sooo close…
    i don’t know if I can handle it…
    I like what you said about…
    This is fun,
    This is an adventure at every turn…
    Me learning to explore MY heart and My everything…
    Wow… what a ride…

  371.  #371Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 6:36 am

    Oooops Labbit… I meant #346

  372.  #372waterfall on December 22, 2014 at 6:55 am

    @Azure Blu

    Thank you! It feels good to read your words that you can relate to my experiences! I am worried that he may turn nasty with me and start blaming me etc.. In truth I am scared..

    I feel such yearning and confusion at the moment…

    He emailed me about meeting up (he suggested some event that he thought may appeal to me). This annoyed me on soooo many levels. Yesterday on the phone I thought I had said that I didn’t want to see him… but maybe I wasn’t quite clear.

    Anyway, at first I said ‘yes’ and then I realised I couldn’t make it in time I retracted and said ‘no’.

    Seriously, it took ALL of my nerve and resolve to do that.

    …But then he asked me if there was anything else I would like to do?

    Again, it took all of my nerve to hold steady and say ‘no, I was busy with other stuff’.

    Lol, I just didn’t know what to say. He then emailed back a short response saying thanks for letting him know. I feel I can’t win.

    I then felt awful. Absolutely horrible. I took myself off to the gym for an hour and feel slightly better but I still feel confused…. why am I still thinking about him?

  373.  #373waterfall on December 22, 2014 at 6:56 am

    @ Indigo – you are welcome to the hugs!

    I hope you have a lovely time this evening on your date with D. I know you have been looking forward to it, and I hope all goes well.

  374.  #374Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 7:45 am

    Azure 366 – Yes! And it is easy to get upset, and feel like I’m upset about something else like dirty dishes in the sink or the bed being unmade, but really if I look inside I see what I’m really feeling is ‘I’m afraid that if you see all of me, the insides and the out, you won’t like what you see.’

    I am delighted with your continued updates with SpiritCd. This period cannot be easy for you (or maybe it is, I guess I don’t really know) but you are handling it with grace, charm and finesse. It’s a challenge wondering if your feelings are stronger than his, if your emotional investment is more than his, but I think the reality is he’s just keeping his cards close to his vest. 🙂

    You are a Siren, and you are drawing him in just by being you. There’s no rush, there is only this moment, and you have all the time in the world.

  375.  #375Mistea1 on December 22, 2014 at 8:13 am

    Well, I just got back from delivering my message to his in box. Of course, he showed up in the office about the same time I did. I thought I was going way early. I felt good and strong upon seeing him. I feel I got to write my confused and sad feelings as well as the big incident that he most likely was aware of and probably affected him too. I too, feel I have to lay eyes on him at least twice a week even if we don’t say much.

    I’m so glad you all are writing about your confusion on saying no, and still thinking about some one and how you are dealing with it.

    I must have stuffed my feelings for years. I didn’t even know all this would be there. Believe me I wouldn’t have given MusicTd the time of day if I hadn’t been so taken in by his music before I even knew of him. It’s like the universe played a dirty trick on me. This is so frustrating!

    Oh well, I have a second date with newguyCD today. At least so far he acting like an adult. It is unfair for me to think of him as a foil for newguyCD. Thanks all.

  376.  #376Mistea1 on December 22, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Labbit 346
    I found this sentence very helpful.
    “It is hard to endure pleasure and beauty without retreating.” This is part of our evolution apparently. Maybe it’s this idea of some religious and/or cultural stuff that we must overcome. I don’t know. Anyway I’m thinking about it.

  377.  #377Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 8:31 am

    waterfall #368
    Sooo interesting…
    that was the same thing with me and BK…
    after 8 weeks.. he invited me to an event he had taken me to in the past that we enjoyed…
    I was sooo tempted
    But in my heart I realized
    What would change?
    and if he had decided he wanted
    to work on things (which he didn’t want to in the past)
    could I forgive him for all his lieing and disappearing
    and ever trust him?

  378.  #378Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 8:32 am

    This is what Dominique says…
    “So even more especially, when the big stuff stares you in the face and you find yourself wondering if this man is toxic or commitment phobic, the only way to heal this FOR YOU is by continuing on your healing path.

    If he’s going to heal, this will likely be the only way he will be inspired to do so. And if he is unable or not ready yet, this will help you gain greater clarity. And I don’t mean only about yourself.

    I also mean what’s going on with him and with the relationship, whether he really is toxic or commitment phobic and where you want to go from here. This is the only way to discover what is you need to do whatever this is. And you WILL just know.

    You may have been completely correct in your original assessment of him, but in order to be really sure, you must keep working with yourself by observing, being aware of your triggers, anxieties, and fears, and take steps to heal them.”

    here is her link:

  379.  #379Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 8:35 am

    So glad to hear about your 2nd date with NewCD!!!

    I don’t know if you saw my question from before…
    I feel curious….How long did you and MusicTD date?

  380.  #380Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 8:41 am

    Labbit… #370
    Thank you for the pat on the back…
    It feels good!

    This is true:
    ” It’s a challenge wondering if your feelings are stronger than his, if your emotional investment is more than his, but I think the reality is he’s just keeping his cards close to his vest. :)”
    This is easier because I am CDing…

    I talked to 2 new CDs on the phone last night…
    They both expressed their desire to
    get OFF the Dating sight!! :-))
    Sooo cool…

  381.  #381Beloved on December 22, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Anger…feels challenging for sure!
    I noticed this morning how much hostility I’ve been feeling for my mother and how I’ve been so snippy with her.
    I feel annoyed with her gazillion imperfections.
    I feel pist that she favors some of her children/and grandchildren/great grandchildren over others, to the point that she will buy lots of lavish gifts for some and not others, and they all see each others’ gifts on Christmas day.
    I feel annoyed, mystified and baffled that she dragged her feet and almost didn’t go to my younger sister’s college graduation this past weekend. My sister is the first of any of us to get a degree, and she graduated cum laude. I feel SO proud of her, she got her degree in business and she is amazing and strong and smart as a whip. I feel inspired by her, and so proud of her.
    My mother, didn’t even buy her a graduation gift (and she can totally afford it).
    I do not understand my mother, and I feel tired of trying.
    At the same time, I feel the battle between us, how we get on each others’ nerves yet we need each other.
    This morning it felt challenging and I had to work hard to get out of victim mode when she woke me up wayyy early in the morning to take her to the store. She can drive, but she also hates to drive anywhere alone. I felt angry and hostile this morning, and yet I agreed to go.
    I was asking myself, what is up with me? Have I forgotten that I can say no? I can say no. I don’t have to do this. I must admit to myself, that I am doing this for love. As annoying and frustrating and deeply flawed as she is, I love her and I have my reasons and this is my choice I am making and get my mind straight and don’t take this out on her!
    Grr, hahah.
    I turned my mind to my metta practice – may she be happy, may she be free, may she be filled with loving presence, may she be held in loving presence – and back to me, may *I* be happy, etc.
    Which makes me laugh, now, because I see how much hostility arises from believing I have no choice and from blaming. It feels yuck. It feels like poison.

    I also notice how I haven’t used FM’s with my mom when I feel this way, I don’t say “I feel angry” or “I feel hostile”, it feels too personal, it feels too vulnerable, like I might be giving her the upper hand.

    I’m back on online dating and feeling more relaxed and happy about it. I am not ‘looking’ for a ‘partner’ or anything, I’m practicing just chatting and letting the energy flow, leaning back if I start to feel out of balance.

    I’m feeling quite creative as well, I found a site that has a lot of interesting and customizable music and I am doing some very basic track mixing, which feels fun. I have a few meditations that I’ve always wanted different background music for, so I’m trying my hand at changing it around. This feels like a healthier use of my time than Candy Crush, lol 🙂

  382.  #382Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 9:16 am

    I’ve started watching through Rori’s complete collection of video programs again. I think the last time I watched them was June or July?

    It’s amazing how differently I hear the information now. The way I’m affected so differently…what makes sense and what doesn’t make sense. I’m listening to Modern Siren on my iPhone today and I can’t believe how new and fresh the material seems, how I don’t remember a lot of this stuff from last time, what sticks out to me now versus what did last time I listened to it. I’m loving this…so glad to have these at my fingertips to practice and build new skills.

  383.  #383Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 9:55 am

    376 Azure Blu — Aww, that is wonderful to hear what your 2 new CDs have said. And yes, THIS is exactly what CD’ing is all about…we are getting it! Feeling what we feel when different men approach us, learning how we are with men we like, men we don’t like, men we’re not sure about it. It feels so weird at first CD’ing, doesn’t it? I don’t know about you but I never took such good care of myself, really allowing myself to spread my wings and feel so fully expressive. Learning how to relax in a man’s presence, how to let him give to me without feeling the need to immediately give back or give first, how to feel powerful and scary feelings without trying to make him responsible for those feelings or spewing them out on him to shift my discomfort onto him.

    CD’ing didn’t help me land a man — that happened on its own because I was CD’ing but less as a result of it. CD’ing helped me find my strength, my sexiness, my confidence, my alluring Siren qualities. It helped me believe in myself. I can remember going through a day here and there where I’d be really Sireny and then freaking out from all the male attention, LOL! Putting that armor right back on. You get more used to it with time…it becomes powerful. And not in a take advantage of them kind of way, simply in a WOW I can do anything kind of way.

    This is what I wish for you Azure, and more. I can already see it happening.

  384.  #384Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 10:03 am

    I was just talking to a good friend of mine on the phone and we were laughing about an annual holiday party in our city that happened this past weekend. Two or three of our girlfriends, plus one of my male friends all met their spouses there in past years. And yet there were two or three years in the past where my friend and I would buy tickets and could NOT make ourselves go. Even though we knew there would be commitment-caliber men there. Even though we knew there would be single men ready to mingle with awesome women like us. We couldn’t do it. The day of the party would come and one of us wouldn’t be feeling well, or it would be raining or snowing, or there would be some excuse to keep us from going. Or we’d make up excuses via some article we read about men taking advantage of women around the holidays. Whatever excuse we could find.

    I used to beat myself up over this but now I see it differently. I see that I wasn’t ready to leave my space spot, my cage that I’d locked myself into securely. I’m learning not to punish myself over this…to instead understand that I feel unsafe somehow, whether it’s intuition or gremlins or whatever and that I choose to keep myself in my cage. As long as I realize it’s ME keeping myself in there and that I can leave anytime I want, I’m okay. Even now I get invited to fun events that I know I want to go to, but can’t motivate myself when the day or evening comes. I can’t blame it on someone else or make anyone else responsible for me putting myself into my cage. And usually a day or two later I’m once again ready to spread my wings.

  385.  #385Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Oops, my safe spot not my space spot, haha. 🙂

  386.  #386Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Labbit #378
    What a good idea to watch the Rori Cd’s I have again…
    How interesting to hear how you have a different perspective when looking at them now…

    I have the Modern Siren (I recognize your referral to “being in my cage”)
    I want to get them out and listen to them now and see what comes up…
    Thank you for this suggestion.

  387.  #387Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Labbit #365
    Thank you for these thoughts on the first few months of dating…
    Yes… I want to lean back and see who he is and how enthusiastic he is…
    Keeping things light hearted and fun…
    Which is easier when we have 2-3 in our rotation…

    “His actions or lack thereof will tell you everything you need to know.”

    One of my Cd’s – we had 2 dates… texting me good morning everyday… calling off and on…
    was VERY enthusiastic… and then started
    canceling with, what seemed to be, legitimate excuses…
    but havn’t heard from him in a week..
    Some men don’t like seeing you online
    when they are dating you
    (as anyone can observe if you are online, and it is captioned on your photo “online within 24 hours… Online within the past week etc)
    He hadn’t been online very long and I think I was his 2nd date…
    That is ok… I learned alot about him right away…

  388.  #388Labbit on December 22, 2014 at 11:51 am

    383 Azure Blu — Did he say he didn’t like seeing you online? Or is that a guess on your part? Because really if he doesn’t like seeing you online the best way to get you off there is asking you out on dates regularly til he knows you and can snatch you up for himself, LOL! He may not care, he may care, who knows unless he told you that, in which case that’s a little unfair. I know that when I dated online I used to feel uncomfortable that people could see when I was last online, because I didn’t always respond to men each time I was on…I would respond to some but not others and I liked to wait at least 24 hours if not longer before responding to any man, so if he’d written me 3 hours ago and I went online I’d still wait 24 hours until the next time I was on to reply.

    If a man fades away because of that he’s not playing for keeps anyway. Text messages, emails, dating site messages, they’re like voicemails. You get back to them at your convenience. True, it would be more fun and mysterious for women if we could hide our last time online. It does take a lot of the hunt out of it which may stifle men too. But we can’t control it so we just do our best. 🙂 I move at my own rhythm, you know? I feel that online dating is heavily biased towards the male perspective, but I’m sure there are men out there who feel the reverse is true.

    TenderCD was very much like this when we were negotiating our relationship while dating, during those tense few months before we went exclusive. He would get very upset if I didn’t text or call him back within a certain amount of time, or if I had plans on a Friday or Saturday night with a ‘friend’, etc. But after awhile I felt confident enough to just shrug it off, deliver a good feeling message about how much I liked him and reminded him via a feeling message that if he was so upset about it, he knew what had to happen. He knew he’d need to step up his game and claim me. Until then I was taking care of myself first and foremost and couldn’t be concerned with his temper tantrums about it. He never liked hearing it but he also knew it was true.

    With men online you just don’t know why they do what they do. I believe that they get overstimulated — too many women, it’s hard for the less sure ones to pick. It was hard for me to focus at times! I can remember men who would plan dates with me, down to the time and the place, and then not show up. They forgot. Or men who would take me out on one or two dates, disappear for months, and then come back. And so on down the line. Men who put me in their rotation, men who said the sweetest things to try to get under my skirt, men who were secretly married and just wanted chat buddies (that send naked photos), etc. All the dirt and disgusting stuff you can imagine. At first it was repeatedly upsetting, but in time it became a game. It helped me get my act together about going out more too…I fully believe love can be found online, but there’s something much more real about a man who meets you in person and pursues you. There’s so much more effort on his part in the first approach, I think it drives him more than online, where we all feel a little fake.

    All that said, I also met many wonderful men online. I still think of KeyCD very fondly…he calls me every now and then to check in but I have to keep it very formal and short. There were three or four other men who had awesome potential. I had to dig through about 300 men to get to them haha but it was worth it. So worth it.

  389.  #389Azure Blu on December 22, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    No… he did not tell me that’s what happened… :-))
    Never good to spend time speculating…
    I still doo sometimes…

    I’m like you… sooo many men on POF to go through and read their profile when they message me..
    I take my time…
    I do get overstimulated with alll those yummy men!!!
    I forget who’s who… I have a notebook with names, dogs names, number of children where they live… things I like about them.. I have called them by the wrong name… (ooops!!!)
    We message back and forth… they offer their phone number…
    I find It takes me several days/weeks to phone them…
    Sometimes they even offer to call me!! :-))
    I like to call them the first time…
    That way I feel I can pace who calls me and when.
    After that I want them to contact me…