Be A Rori Raye Relationship Coach – Enrollment Open!

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Hi, This is Rori….and you can begin actually coaching clients and building your professional coaching practice – as a Rori Raye Coach-In-Training – starting January 19th, 2015 – just two months away!

Enrollment is now OPEN for RRRCT – Rori Raye Relationship Coach Training – beginning January 19th, 2015 – AND: The earlier you enroll – the more of my personal time you’ll get, and the quicker you can begin working with the materials before class starts!

Starting January 19th, there will be only a small, select group of women studying personally with me in RRRCT – Rori Raye Fundamentals, and getting personally mentored by me to be a successful coach.

If the idea of becoming a professional relationship coach triggers ideas and dreams inside you – let me know! Perhaps RRRCT can create the career change you’ve been imagining about but couldn’t quite put your finger on.

If you’ve been waiting for this opportunity, and would to talk with Melanie, the RRRCT administrator – or me!- write to or just use this form:
This way, I can personally know all about your gifts and dreams so I can mentor you quickly and help you hit the ground running as a professional coach.

For more about how Rori Raye Relationship Coach Training (RRRCT) works: logistics, costs and details on how the three “Modules” of the Training will work for YOU, go here:

Being a coach is the hottest profession there is right now – and being in RRRCT guarantees you my personal time and attention (live by teleseminar!), plus hours of videos, audios and written RRRCT Manual included – AND you’ll get the Rori Raye brand name totally behind you business-wise.

It’s my job at RRRCT to mentor you to carry on my work – personally helping women all over the world – as I turn my potential future coaching clients over to you so I can focus on RRRCT and writing – and to help you have great fun, fulfillment, and financial security while you’re doing it.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1IamHis on November 10, 2014 at 7:49 am

    I feel thankful for coaches and coaching. πŸ™‚

  2.  #2Femininewoman on November 10, 2014 at 7:53 am

    Yes. Coaches thank you.

  3.  #3Indigo on November 10, 2014 at 8:57 am

    Definitely – love my coach!

  4.  #4Indigo on November 10, 2014 at 9:10 am

    I was contemplating while I was out on my walk today (as I have told you all in the past, where I do a lot of my thinking), D and I had been going along pretty nicely, for a long time actually, spending a lot of time together, and then all of a sudden he needed space… I knew it was coming, it is like the sunrise and the sunset, the seasons and the tide… you know they’re coming. And it’s not a bad thing, it just is. And I noticed how different I was this time around, I didn’t fall to pieces, as I would have in the past, nor did I go into overly understanding or withdrawing mode. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew I just needed to hold the space, not try to understand or explain, just stay in my feelings. It’s not personal, it’s not about me, and it will pass. He knows how I feel and he knows that I miss him. What precipitated this is that there are painters doing his entire house, renovating it inside and out, and he finds it hard to relax and to sleep there. It’s not that I haven’t seen him, he asked me to lunch on Thursday and we are going out to lunch again tomorrow, but we haven’t had our close, comfortable intimate time because he is a little tense and needing to withdraw. I didn’t take it personally, I feel calm though I do miss him. He has been caring and gentle in his communication with me, he understands how I feel and has tried in his way to support me as I’ve tried to support him. I realized that if I ended up with D, this is what my life would be like, and I’m ok with that. I needed this time in my own way too, and it’s been perfect in a strange way I cannot explain.

    Anyway all, rambling/riffing here… just some thoughts I had while out walking today.

  5.  #5RileyTheOwl on November 10, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    I feel really sad and angry right now
    C was supposed to come to the rememberance day ceremony to hear me sing.
    He didn’t come, even though he knows how much it means to me.

  6.  #6Gemini Goddess on November 10, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    So sorry Riley. Big hug.

    This is my first post. Not sure if it will work, but let’s see.

  7.  #7Gemini Goddess on November 10, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    I would like to add that I have been following this blog, and ALL of the Rory Raye programs for over a year now, and am SO SO grateful to have found this place, and all of you. I truly do not recognize the “me” of last year, and feel SO proud of myself. I CDed like it was boot camp, watched the programs and read the book over and over, and am now 7 months into a relationship with an amazing man, a relationship that would have never been possible before. He rows the boat with all he’s got, and I LOVE it. Leaning back is the best thing ever. Every time I log on I read something completely relevant as though someone read my mind. Thank you all.

  8.  #8Gemini Goddess on November 10, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    …and THANK YOU, RORI!!!

  9.  #9Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    My coach has helped me sooo much…
    I have been learning the RR tools for over 2 years now and have tried most of that time to do it on my own…
    But it is sooooo VERY helpful to have a living, breathing, understanding RR guru to show me the way…
    Thank you Natalina!!!

  10.  #10Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Indigo #4
    Ahhhh… the leaning back and being with YOURSELF…
    how nice to notice the different way YOU handle
    HIS leaning back now…

    Does it seem to you… since you are less dramatic in your handling of his wanting space… he is able to give you what you need to help calm the NV while you both take some space?

  11.  #11Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    I feel bad you are feeling sad and angry…
    Did C tell you why he couldn’t come and hear you sing?

  12.  #12IamHis on November 10, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    EMERGENCY: I would LOVE some feedback! New guy took me out once and I feel great about how it went. He has been texting and/or calling me every morning and evening since. His buddy is in town and he just sent me a selfie of him and his buddy at the game. I don’t know what to say or if to say something?

  13.  #13Emerson on November 10, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    9 Iamhis
    Not sure, what do you feel like doing? Remember there is no emergency…Take a breath….
    don’t pressure yourself to reply. Perhaps respond when it feels natural….a sirens comment will come to mind. I don’t have one for you lol….

    Glad to hear it’s going well with him!!!

  14.  #14Emerson on November 10, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    Today I remembered to unzip my heart….I was driving to pick up something from work and just thinking about it as I was driving…
    When I got to work, something amazing happened, I saw WorkCrush and said hello..(we always greet each other with a warm hug)…..I’ve shared with you all before that he is my WorkCrush and I’m not sure if he is married, etc…..I’ve been trying to find out and just haven’t had the right moment…
    I commented on a project he’s been doing and casually said “I feel impressed! You’ve worked so hard!”
    As I was leaving, he literally followed me and proceeded to ask me lots of questions….where I live, what I’ve been doing, if I’m married, etc…I practiced open body language and replied…
    And then I asked him how’s married life? He shrugged, made a face, and said “Aw, same old thing…” And I clarified that he is indeed married and he said yes…and I said good for you that’s great!
    He gave an indication that he’s not happy, again maid the face, shrugged and said “Ah ya know…same old thing like I said…”
    I said well sometimes that’s a good thing….having consistency!
    I felt akward but not too bad…I continued to walk to my car and he walked me all the way to my car and closed the driver door behind me. LOL
    I feel disappointed that he’s married, but at least now I know.
    And I also know how powerful it is to unzip my heart. πŸ˜‰

  15.  #15lovetodance on November 10, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    9 i am his

    i love what emerson said….
    to breathe and take your time…
    he is sharing his fun with you…..

    a compliment i’m sure….

  16.  #16lovetodance on November 10, 2014 at 6:40 pm


    i loved reading of your adventure so far…and your siren-ness…
    to me being a siren isn’t always bout being so sure of every reaction, response etc…

    its exactly like you…..checking in, monitoring one’s own habitual response….and is it serving me? kinda questions…
    and that you could allow all that receiving….wow! how fantabulous…

    thank you for taking us along on your trip! enjoy, enjoy , enjoy!

    i admire your spunk and courage!

  17.  #17lovetodance on November 10, 2014 at 6:43 pm

    11 emerson

    that feels so powerful to me emerson…you got to experience all that….be a beautiful desired woman and find out the truth about his status….

    well done ……!

  18.  #18IamHis on November 10, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Thanks Emerson and lovetodance! Ohhhh, Emerson!! Married co-workers! Trigger trigger trigger for me!

    You should feel so good about your power! But watch that man! I can’t stand married men who make their interest in single women obvious! Feels infuriating to me!

    I want a true blue man who thinks I’m the only woman who exists!!!

    I feel feisty!

  19.  #19Emerson on November 10, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    15 Iamhis
    I share in your feistiness.
    Although his attention was flattering, I cooled the jets (on my side) when I found out he was married.
    If he’s not happy in his marriage, it is not my business. I’ve had men play this number with me before.
    On to the next!!!

  20.  #20Indigo on November 10, 2014 at 8:07 pm


    I agree with Emerson, there is no emergency… reply if you want to… if it were me I’d probably reply with a ” πŸ™‚ “

  21.  #21Indigo on November 10, 2014 at 8:12 pm

    Azure Blu 7,

    Absolutely. His healing has fed into mine, creating this lovely positive feedback loop. As I have calmed and opened, so he has calmed and opened. As I have got more of a handle on calming my anxiety and choosing trust, running concurrently with this some changes have been happening in him as well. Without going into too much detail, in the past he used to snap at me when I missed him, and now he is gentle and caring and understanding, being present with my feelings, taking me out to lunch, promising to let me know when it’s all over. This does make it significantly easier to soothe the NV’s.

  22.  #22Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    I agreee with Indigo a nice πŸ™‚
    sounds easy and positive.

  23.  #23Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Emerson #11
    Thank you sooo much for sharing
    the results of unzipping your heart…
    I LOVE that tool!!!
    the reactions are Sooo magical…

    What a Siren you were through the whole thing with workcrush…!!!
    Sooo many men… so little time… ;0)

  24.  #24Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    lovetodance.. #11
    what a good point
    He is Sharing his fun…
    how light and sunshiny!!

  25.  #25Emerson on November 10, 2014 at 9:20 pm

    #20 Aw Azure Blue!!!
    You are welcome πŸ™‚
    I feel happy you liked my sharing!

    I wish I had remembered it last week when I saw cutecityCD!! I felt tense and seemed to forget all the tools out the window!! I did remember to use open body language and dance position…and lean back, other than that I let him lead the convo, that’s about it!!

    Speaking of him, I have not heard from him. Feel sad but not really. Just miss the kissing and the chemistry that is for sure!! I don’t want to *wish* that he would call me or want me…I’m so wanting to switch my focus and on to the next….
    keep my energy from leaning at him….
    I need to focus on my own stuff!!

  26.  #26Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    I understand what you are feeling about Cutecity…

    I too am leaning back and NOT sending any vibes to Spirit…
    I do miss the sex, kisses and chemistry (just saw him last Wed)…
    He wanted to engage in his usual lengthy texting of his almamatter football game on Sat. night…
    I text him short answers every hour or so and then he did let it drop…
    At first when he used to do this I thought how cool it was… almost like watching it together (he was watching with his daughter)
    But now…
    With us slowing down our relationship… it’s too much…
    Feels off balance…
    I am talking to 3 POF guys this week… hopefully have a date for this weekend…
    That would feel good!!
    Thank you lovely Sirens for your ongoing encouragement and support
    through your sharing and magical words!!!

  27.  #27Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Indigo #17
    how lovely that as you grow and become less anxious
    he does too…
    Dominique talks about this on her web site…
    about how us leading by example
    sometimes inspires our man to change along with us!!!

  28.  #28Indigo on November 10, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I have been working with Dominique and I love her approach in this way.

    One thing I did come to realize is that you can’t be invested in him changing… it’s something that only might happen, and most likely will if you are right for each other… but it’s something you have to do for your own benefit. As you are always saying, love for you.

    Well done on how you are handling Spirit!

  29.  #29Emerson on November 10, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    23 yay Azure POF!!
    Can’t wait to hear what happens…
    I feel curious about POF, I tried it long ago…met some nice people…
    Met CuteCityCD on OKcupid…
    You just never know!!

  30.  #30Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    How lovely to work with Dominique!!!
    I do sooo love her gentle, warm approach!

    Yes, you are sooo right… accepting the man exactly as he is…
    Some men are not inspirable
    (is that a word???) ;0>

  31.  #31Azure Blu on November 10, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    Yes, I too have met all sorts of lovely men online dating!!
    I’ll keep you up-to-date as things move along!!

  32.  #32Sabs on November 10, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    Hi ladies,

    I need some help. I’m feeling really confused right now to the point where I can’t sleep and feel really anxious. I’m away on a trip with my boyfriend who I live with and what started as a wonderful evening, I was feeling sexy, being open with the bartenders and waiters boosting my feeling of attractiveness when he nipped to the loo or I went to order drinks. So we got quite drunk and were having a good time when it all got quite intense. He said that he didn’t feel good enough for me, that I could be happy and have any man I wanted and that he didn’t deserve me. He said he didn’t think he could make me happy anymore and that he wanted to know what was going on with us and what I wanted to do. I said I felt confused and that I loved him and wanted to be with him. He said he was no good, that I shouldn’t be with him that he kept making mistakes and didn’t want to hurt me anymore. I told him again I was confused and that I felt he was trying to make me break up with him. He was crying at this point and said that he loved me and didn’t want to not be with me but that he was bad for me. When we got back to the hotel we carried on talking, he said that at times he’s 100% sure of me and other times he doesn’t know about forever that there’s only so many times he can analyse his feelings for me with me. We’ve been together 5 years and the past two weeks have been bumpy but I love him and i really don’t want to lose him. I know I could easily attract other men but this is the man I want. He said that other people around me make him feel like he’s not good enough like my parents and some friends. He said he wanted to know what was going on. I asked him if he wanted to be with me and he held me close and said he never not wanted to be with me he just wants to know what’s going on. I just don’t know where to go from here, I feel anxious and confused still and I don’t know what to do? Please can anyone help. Things got so emotional and so intense between us this evening I don’t feel I know where we stand anymore or how to make him feel 100% about me again. Lots of love and light x

  33.  #33Victoria on November 11, 2014 at 12:50 am

    @ Indigo 4.
    I admire how you are handling this, and I try to act similar to you.
    I have had several occasions when Favorite withdrew from me, looking back it was instances when I overfunctioned. Or may be it was just a natural thing, like the seasons? Either way, I am not sure I am ok with it… That is, I may choose not to end up with him, just because I do not like to be reguarly and predictably pushed away. A warmer climate with less seasonal variation might be better for my health.
    On the other hand, the no-leaning forward diet is going well. There were at least 5 occasions in the last 10 days (or so) when I had an urge to reach out to him, and I considered it and chose not to do it. It has changed the energy exchange, I no longer feel like I am chasing him, I am only responding to him when he initiates. And, I do not want to change his behavior. I am just looking at him, smiling, and half of my brain is delighted and experiencing how gorgeous he is in his shy and introverted nature. At the same time, the other half of my brain is thinking where to get ourselves a new CD in order to have more fun :-). I feel mischievous :-). And I sense he is a bit uneasy with me not reaching out to him, and he knows I am scheming, and he has tried to probe gently a few times as to what is going on in my mind! I am becoming mysterious, can you belive that! Yay, me!

  34.  #34Indigo on November 11, 2014 at 1:16 am


    Definitely, yay you!!

    “I am not sure I am ok with it… That is, I may choose not to end up with him, just because I do not like to be regularly and predictably pushed away. A warmer climate with less seasonal variation might be better for my health.”

    I felt like that initially, and you being an extrovert, you may well find that it is not good for you. I, on the other hand, being introverted and highly sensitive and needing a lot of alone time myself, it does not bother me so much. In fact, I enjoy the fact that he withdraws because it gives me breathing space. Even when we are together we only spend maybe 50% of the time actually with each other. The rest of the time we are doing our own thing and it works well for us. The main thing I had a problem with in the past was when his withdrawal would be accompanied by snapping and moodiness, but that is coming right.

  35.  #35Victoria on November 11, 2014 at 1:32 am

    that makes a lot of sense, and I am very happy for you, you are a great role model!
    In my situation Favorite does not get snappy or moody. What he does is he becomes even more absent minded and forgetful than he usually is. I have learned to understand that this happens when his “system” is overloaded, he shuts down and needs time to recover without me. I am a very intensive person, I like company and action, I know I make him tired once in a while. Sometimes I love his slowness, he slows me down, and makes me feel more balanced, in a “take the time to smell the roses” way. Any how, I do not need to be making any decisions with regards to him. And I still have 20 more days of diet, before I become to be able whether I will keep it as a way of life.

  36.  #36prplpsn28 on November 11, 2014 at 5:55 am

    Yep…love my coach πŸ™‚

    I absolutely have not been reaching out to H at all…but…this morning I did just to say Happy Veterans Day to his dad and to thank his dad for his service. I did not expect anything. It just felt good for me to reach out to his dad and that’s the only way I new how. H did reply. He was very appreciative and said he would share it with his dad. A few texts back and forth but nothing big. I feel ok with it and not expecting any kind of an outcome.

  37.  #37Labbit on November 11, 2014 at 6:47 am

    I am grateful for all of the coaches too, especially Rori and Dominique! It feels so wonderful to be able to come here to Siren Island and get feedback, support and pointers from the new coaches and all of you Goddesses too. You help me see things in a new light and keep me centered when I start to lose my grip.

    Speaking of which, the last couple of days have been tough. I felt weird yesterday…disconnected. And today I woke up with a scary emptiness inside. I felt very cold, very alone, very small. I have had this happen enough times since finding Rori to know — TenderCD is pulling back.

    I think I know why, not that the reason really matters. He has been looking for a new apartment to buy for a few months. In the last month or two he’s invited me along on showings and at some point his search magically changed from 1 BR apartments to 2 BRs. He’d say things like “we can use this as the office-slash-guestroom” and “do you like this kitchen layout? could you cook here?” and most dreamily “could you see living here with me, [my dog] and being happy?”

    We’d made an offer on one other apartment that fell through. This past weekend we found an amazing 2 BR, in the neighborhood we want to be in, with the right amount of sun and the right color floors and the right doormen and that is half-renovated. It’s perfect because the price is within TenderCD’s budget with enough room to renovate. I could tell both of us felt so at home while we were touring it. At the end of the tour the real estate agent asked us what we thought, TenderCD squeezed my hand hard and I just nodded happily. He sent in his offer yesterday. We both feel confident this offer is going to come through.

    And now he’s pulling back. I get it — this is a HUGE step. Even though us living together is not imminent — the renovations will take several months and my lease isn’t up for another 8 months or so anyway — it’s moving forward, and making a commitment, and as much as we both want this even I feel scared! So I’m sure he does too. He’s backing off to take stock of things…check in with himself. There is nothing for me do here. If I try to do anything, it will only push him away. He doesn’t need me to help him check in with himself. I know this.

    I know that everything is fine, that he will be back, and if I want to help speed it up all I have to do is lean back myself and pull back on that rubber band. Rori’s email this morning about Letting Go came at the perfect time for me! Yet it still feels so hard. I feel shaky. I want to JUMP forward and LUNGE at TenderCD. I know that will not feel good to him at all but it’s what I want. It’s not like I don’t have plenty of things to do myself…it’s that I find this emptiness terribly distracting.

    Today I am practicing doing nothing with these feelings. I am walking through the dark forest, knowing there is a calm sunny meadow on the other side. I am taking care of myself.

  38.  #38Labbit on November 11, 2014 at 6:52 am

    4 Indigo — Oh this is lovely, you just said everything I tried to much more concisely and poetically LOL. Every sunset leads to another sunrise. Your calmness comes through delightfully. Love this!

  39.  #39Victoria on November 11, 2014 at 6:59 am

    Are you scared by the idea of living with him?
    I have caught myself on several occasions that I really really want my man to desire certian things with me (like to move the relationship forward, move towards living together etc) but at the same time, when I see that he really wants it, or is on the verge of offering it, I get cold feet. I am so not sure if I want to live with him! Living together is a really big deal. I am not sure is he is my forever man… I am not sure there is such a thing as a forever man, and that I want to carry the burden to be someone’s foreever woman! Such a huge responsibility!

  40.  #40Labbit on November 11, 2014 at 7:20 am


    When I think about living with TenderCD, it’s funny but I mostly get scared about little things. Like, what happens in the middle of the night if I really have to fart? Or what if the dog farts and he thinks it’s me?!? Or if I need to blow my nose? Will he care that when I get head colds I snore? Will I be able to make enough space in the medicine cabinet for his man stuff and my makeup? What if he watches really awful TV shows? Where the heck am I going to keep all my clothing? Things like that.

    Sometimes I have deeper thoughts. Like, what will it feel like to wake up next to someone and know that’s who you’re going to wake up next to forever? How will it feel on the days when I love him…the days when I’m mad at him…the days when his body is right next to me but his mind is a million miles away? When I slot TenderCD into those visions it feels comfortable. I feel good. I do feel scared, but more that I might be missing something else…and that’s just my insecurities talking. Is it a burden to be someone’s forever partner? πŸ™‚ I feel like it would be a pleasure.

    I have lived with a boyfriend before and it was great right until we broke up…and then it was truly awful. My ex was a gentleman and paid the rent for an extra couple of months after he moved out (until the lease ended) but it was terrible being surrounded by all those memories…and yet, life went on and things got good for me again. And he is doing well too. Living together doesn’t have to be the end all be all.

    If I live with a man, my preference would be to get engaged first. TenderCD and I have spoken about this. I think it’s too soon for us to get engaged. So it’s good that any apartment we buy won’t be ready to live in right away.

  41.  #41Azure Blu on November 11, 2014 at 7:21 am

    Victoria #35!!!
    I soooo understand what you are saying!!
    But I had a finace that was so confident about him and me and US that he made the whole living together transition very easy…
    I’m remembering… his job required him to travel… so it was always nice to have that time to regroup… have alone time… take care of all the things I didn’t do when he was around…
    Isn’t that interesting
    We took time apart but it didn’t seem hurtful cause
    it was linked to his job…
    Very interesting…
    I’d like to get that perspective again…

  42.  #42Azure Blu on November 11, 2014 at 7:22 am

    How Wonderful!!! TenderCD is moving forward so quickly now…
    Are you still Cding other men?
    What has changed between you and him?
    Are you still seeing Keycd?

  43.  #43Violette on November 11, 2014 at 8:14 am

    This morning I feel so triggered about AD and I need to vent!!!

    We are going away next weekend for his birthday, and this morning he said to me, will you miss me? I said, I won’t have time to, I have so much to do, and I really need to be with myself in my nest and regroup, I’m off center. He didn’t like that. But I am screaming for air. I feel so lost as to how to make boundaries with him so I can breathe.

    Last night at dinner he was asking how to pronounce something in Italian accent. (I don’t speak it but I have a basic idea of what an Italian accent sounds like). I said you try it, give it a go. He said he didn’t know what an Italian accent sounds like. He suggested his friend from the Bronx as an example. No, that is an American regional accent actually. Then he says oh, you mean an Italian accent in English?

    And I wanted to throw a plate at him. He is so stupid! And so comfortable with being that way. And I feel so disconnected and…like I’m sitting with someone who just sprouted 2 heads, like what are you talking about!?

    Then also this morning he goes on about the condo he is now definitely going to buy, because he has to be in the town where his son lives. (Ok, for the record I don’t know why he couldn’t live 30 mn away from his son…and his town is so boring and has no atmosphere, but at this point I don’t care what he does because I know I don’t want to be with him long term). Then he says how in 3 years he will probably move to my city, or I will move in with him. (I’ve been clear I’m not living in his town, but he has chosen not to hear me.)

    When he does this future talking, I feel a panic, like I am a terrible person because I haven’t told him I don’t see us having a life together but I don’t want to end things because it’s good for now (there are good things when I get through the triggers). But I didn’t say anything. Because this morning he was going on about how he needs me and how it’s so good to have someone.

    And he was telling me how his ex-wife has her lawyers bothering him about their settlement (he is going to be paying for her life forever…oh the joys of dating divorced men), and how his kids are being mean to him. I mean, victim! And that that’s why he’s been grumpy with me these last couple of days. Oh, and he told me he’s hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I was not asking.

    And last night there was something private about a medical issue and he wouldn’t leave it alone and he got so in my business to the point he was saying I need to just go to a doctor and put it on my credit card…and I wasn’t anywhere near that part of the subject matter when the topic came up. It was way overboard, this man has no boundaries! And I had a meltdown in the restaurant and couldn’t breathe…and he’s saying it’s no big deal, this is part of getting to know each other, this is what relationship is.

    I have a lot of feelings to sit with here. I feel so guilty like I’m stringing him along because I don’t stop him when he starts talking about our future. But it feels so violent in the moment, to say, hey, I don’t see us together in the future but don’t feel ready to break up. I don’t know how to do it. I feel so afraid of hurting him, and of his anger.

    I want my center back. The idea of being free sounds so nice right now. Lonely too though. He holds me in his arms and is always there if I need anything. Someone to talk to, help with an official letter.

  44.  #44Labbit on November 11, 2014 at 8:26 am

    38 Azure Blu — Yes I’m still CDing other men on a very casual, low-key level. I had to end things with KeyCD because he wanted to move forward with me…and I cannot be with more than one man at that level. It was very easy since I’d been upfront with KeyCD that I was dating other men; I shared that I had so much fun with him and felt so good but that someone else made the move forward first. He was disappointed but told me that if things with TenderCD don’t work out he’d happily pick up right where we left off. I can’t tell you how good that feels!

    In terms of what’s changed between me and TenderCD…I think I found my backbone again! It was hiding somewhere squishy. I misunderstood what soft meant for a long time I think…I’d somehow internalized it as ‘doormat.’ I didn’t think I was being a doormat; I thought I was being fun and feminine and letting him lead, but really I was just letting him take advantage of me. It’s not that TenderCD is a bad man — he’s not, he’s a great man! But I didn’t set any boundaries with him and so he could get away with anything. And even a good man will take this as far as you let them.

    I have learned the value of space and patience in dating. I was being too available to him — accepting last-minute dates, being OK with repeated late cancellations, allowing him to be more sexually aggressive than I would have liked (the first time we dated). I have learned to hold my ground about 3 days in advance for dates; if he asks me 24 hours I say no and suggest three days later. If he cancels a date late (as in, within a few hours of it happening or even right as the date is supposed to start) I no longer say “It’s OK, I understand.” I say NOTHING. I wait until he reaches out and apologizes. I don’t get dramatic, I don’t get defensive, I don’t tell him I’m upset and I don’t tell him to apologize. He knows. He knows he’s done wrong, and because I don’t make a huge dramatic scene over it like I would have in the past it’s easy for him to step up, apologize, and make it right. He gets pleasure out of it too! These things are quickly not becoming issues any more. I don’t think he’s asked for a last-minute date or cancelled on me in over a month now. I’ve also learned that time between dates is a GOOD thing. I was racing, trying to get to seeing him 24/7 as soon as possible shortly after we got back together. But now I realize that it’s those moments when we’re apart, when he doesn’t know who I’m with or what I’m doing, that his feelings for me grow. When we’re together I fall in love with him. When we’re apart and I give him space — not pulling on him via contact or with my energy — he falls in love with me. That’s what springs him back towards me.

    I’m learning not to overfunction. This is really tough, I’m not gonna lie, because probably 60% of the time I have no idea I’m overfunctioning until TenderCD (or another CD) has gone silent for over a week on me. And then I have to back up and think through my actions and feelings until I find the overfunctioning. Things that seemed innocent to me, like asking when I would see a man next at the end of our date or asking him what he was up to during a phone call or where he’s been if I hadn’t heard from him in a few days or even reaching out to him to check in if he hasn’t called/texted in a few days…I’ve learned that until a man asks for commitment, these things all make him back away. It drives me NUTS! To me, it’s just planning and sharing. But I don’t challenge it anymore…I just understand that I have to BE where I am and I can’t let my mind run off to anything in the future. Yet. πŸ™‚ The hardest part is that sometimes men do just back off because they have their own stuff going on…and there’s nothing I can do. All I want to do is do something! Reach out, call, talk, whatever. Can’t do any of it. Feeling that urge without resisting it or doing anything with it is very, very hard for me. I can’t say I always make it.

    The last thing is I don’t tolerate behavior that makes me feel bad anymore. So, if Tender were to disappear on me for weeks on end now, I wouldn’t freak out and chase him. (Or I might freak out, but I’d keep it to myself and Siren Island!) And when he did come back, I wouldn’t jump right back into his arms immediately if I decided to take him back at all. I would lean back, be very sparse in my availability to him and observe his actions. While I always listen to him, I’ve learned that men say a lot of things that don’t necessarily become reality and sometimes it feels like they want to see my reaction. Like when we first got back together TenderCD asked me about going on a trip to Turks & Caicos with him in early summer. I got all excited thinking the trip was happening…but then it never materialized. Another CD invited me to an event that was happening in October…in July. And I realized that instead of jumping and saying yes, I needed to set expectations. So I told him that sounded fun and we’d see how things went.

    I don’t tell the minutiae of my life anymore, I don’t tell TenderCD everything I’m up to and I’m vague if he answers questions I don’t want to answer. Until we’re committed to each other, he doesn’t get to treat me like I’m his girlfriend. It works the other way too — I don’t get to know all the details of his life yet either. I could go on and on, but I hope this helps. πŸ™‚

  45.  #45Labbit on November 11, 2014 at 8:36 am


    How about taking a few days for yourself? You could let AD know or not…totally up to you. Just take some space for yourself — it sounds like you need it! Turn off your phone or put it on Do Not Disturb. If AD is coming after you with calls, texts, messages, whatever; when you’re ready simply let him know that you’re busy and you’ll get back to him soon. Or you could wait til after the fact and let him know that you’ve been busy. I wouldn’t take any action while I’m feeling super emotional.

  46.  #46Rori Raye on November 11, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Gemini Goddess – BRAVA to YOU! Love, Rori

  47.  #47Dominique on November 11, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Labbit – 36 – This is so beautiful!!! All of these seemingly silly question you raise are questions we all have asked ourselves before and may again.

    And so you know, most men think our farts are cute. That said, I still won’t do it in K’s or anyone’s presence, lol. It’s all part of being human, and if he loves you, it will only endear you to him, the snoring, the snot, the vomiting when you’re ill, and any idiosyncrasies you might have. Remember too that men love to nurture, take care of you.

    And the rest seems to all sort itself out.


  48.  #48Gemini Goddess on November 11, 2014 at 8:49 am

    Oh! A response from Rori! I feel SO excited and happy!!!

  49.  #49Beloved on November 11, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Violette, I feel cringey reading your posts about AD, and I feel curious and wonder if you even like him?
    I’m wondering if you might feel more in love with his interest in you than in the man himself.
    It would feel awful if I were dating a man who secretly thought I was stupid and not smart/cultured/good enough for him.
    Typing that out, it also makes me wonder, if you trust that you are good enough for the kind of man you really want.

  50.  #50Femininewoman on November 11, 2014 at 10:34 am

    Violette all I feel comfortable to say right now is WOW

  51.  #51Femininewoman on November 11, 2014 at 10:39 am

    SABS hi. I am not a fan of alcohol and don’t believe that such intense discussions should be undertaken when alcohol is involved. I’d relax until the alcohol wears off then see what happens.

  52.  #52Violette on November 11, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Thank you Labbit for your response. Yes I won’t be seeing him until next weekend so I will have some time to regather myself.

    I can’t help but feel really judged by the last 2 comments. I have a right to vent without saying things nicely until I’ve had the time to regather my feelings.

    I like a lot of things about being with him. But I’m struggling with the things I don’t like. Right now my journey has been to sit with the things I don’t like and release them, then enjoy the things I do like. Right now I am in process and I would like to feel like this is a safe place to share but I have to say I don’t so I will refrain from sharing further.

  53.  #53Beloved on November 11, 2014 at 11:09 am

    Violette…hmm…interesting…it could be that the struggling is what catches my attention and makes me feel curious. A lot of what you say reminds me of a previous relationship, where I didn’t like the man very much but I felt very dependent on his attention and I wondered if your thoughts and beliefs were similar to mine at the time.

  54.  #54Liquid Light on November 11, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    Labbit, your journey here has been amazing. You managed to turn things around with tenderCD so quickly. It is so inspiring! I love your tips about how you relate to him and thanks for sharing those here. I’m going to keep those in mind when i get to know new men. Thank you!!!

  55.  #55Andrea on November 11, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    OOOOhhhhhh…. Beloved…. oooooohhhhh my! What a triggering and provoking question you pose:

    “Do you trust that you are good enough for the kind of man you really want?”

    That is a great one for me to ponder as well. I want to honor what Violette is going through, but I feel so moved by that question. Do I trust that I”m good enough for the kind of man I really want??

    If I were to be honest: I would answer NO.

    I was wondering today: why is it that I have so many men swirling around the periphery of my attention span, and not a one of them are the kind of man I really want? Just recently I have kind of pushed everyone away so that I can recover my spirit from this energy draining weekend. (fun, but tiring)

    And I recieved texts from four different men: one engaged, one married, one four hours away, and one who I went on a date with on Halloween night and he’s already sending me facebook posts that I’m the only one for him. I ignored them all and am just pondering….

    I’ve gotten closer to the kind of man I want. I think I’m getting closer to the kind of woman I want to be as well.


  56.  #56RileyTheOwl on November 11, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Oh Azure, thank you so much for responding to me. I so appreciate it, sometimes, like today, I feel all “look at me, I’m Riley and I need my attention!” Heheh…(:

    Well, he didn’t have class this morning and therefore wasn’t on campus. He said he was so sorry, he had forgotten the ceremony was this morning and that he wouldn’t be at campus for it.

    I felt angry, because he had really really cared about it and about how I’ve been facing my stagefright and anxiety these last couple years. Finally I’m performing again, I feel SO PROUD of me, and of my long journey of overcoming anxiety and years of seeing psychologists. So he knows how important it is for me to be doing this show.

    I know how proud I am of me, and of how far I’ve come, and part of me wants to show that off to him. Again, the whole “look at me!” Thing. I accept him the way he is and that he makes mistakes sometimes, and I spent this afternoon on a long walk and am going out with a friend tonight (no school tomorrow due to remembrance day!! πŸ™‚ ) and during my walk I addressed my anger and really felt it and then brought C away from the picture and just focused on MY anger and sadness…. And after awhile I just began to feel like laughing. I just suddenly felt better about the whole thing! I had an amazing morning singing and it’s my favorite weather outside, I feel Ladidadida walking in the sunlight on crunchy leaves, I feel surrounded by friends and goodness. I’m now drinking tea at home cuddled in my bed, and am going out with my friend later to wander around cool parts of downtown, and I just am so full of food stuff that this thing with C just seems so irrelevant and far off now πŸ™‚

    All in all, I am feeling much much better now, clearly. Next time we talk, if it comes up I will most definitely express how I wasn’t very okay with him missing it… Because I don’t want to be overly accepting or understanding. But, I DO accept that he makes mistakes and is human, and I’m okay with this.

  57.  #57RileyTheOwl on November 11, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    *good stuff, not food stuff hahah

  58.  #58Azure Blu on November 11, 2014 at 1:22 pm

    Labbitt #44
    Yes, Yes, Yes (sounds like an or*asm) :-))
    Ahhhh… the poetry of of your sharing…
    thank you…
    This is sooo lovely… the dance the moving back,
    the moving forward…
    the rhythm of the flow of life…
    Your life
    How alll the RR tools work for YOU
    for you and Tender

    I love this:
    “When we’re together I fall in love with him.
    When we’re apart and I give him space β€” not pulling on him via contact or with my energy β€”
    he falls in love with me.
    That’s what springs him back towards me.”

  59.  #59Azure Blu on November 11, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Andrea #55
    “I’ve gotten closer to the kind of man I want.
    I think I’m getting closer to the kind of woman I want to be as well.”

    I agree…
    what a VERY good question…
    Do I think I am worthy of the man I want to be with?

  60.  #60Azure Blu on November 11, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Purple #36
    Thank you for sharing you…

    I too have asked ME “If I DO lean forward… can I do this without expectations?”
    I just experienced this last week…
    Spirit had textd me in the middle of the night..
    It was the anniversary of his sons death 19yrs ago…
    He was VERY surprised how hard it was hitting him this year…
    I made the decision to be there for him (and NOT expect ANYthing in return)
    We talked for over an hour (3:00-4:00am)
    And it was such a close, warm time together…
    I felt sooo good (I didn’t mention MY loss)
    I stayed listening carefully and responded without mothering…
    He thanked me many times and shared photos and memories…

    I’ve heard from him on Sat. but continue to lean back and take care of ALLL the millions of things I need to do!!
    I guess i still am finding it difficult to NOT crave HIM…

    But I love ME… I want a man that is READY for a relationship…
    Talked to a CD last night and will talk to another one today…

  61.  #61Indigo on November 11, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Labbit 44,

    This was really wonderful, thank you so much for sharing it. I found it so incredibly wise and good and helpful, and I cannot say that I’m there yet. Maybe what I will do is copy and paste this post of yours and stick it next to my computer.


  62.  #62RileyTheOwl on November 11, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Labbit 44,
    First of all, oohhh I am blown away, wow, this is exactly what I’ve been feeling through lately… just the realization that I love not telling him what I’m up to. What I’ve been doing. I don’t need to explain these things to him. I am all in myself, just doing what I love to do, feeling what I love to feel, and while we’re apart and I’m doing this he is so falling in love with me, missing me.

    Tonight I found something odd though… I was with a friend the night before, and over text today C was asking me how I was. How my day has been, etc. Then came the, “what did you do last night”? I answered vaguely, saying I’m with my friend and ohh what a lovely time it was. Then the questions kept coming, and I felt a little bit analyzed over. What did you two do? Where was that? Where did you go for dinner? You went back to her house? What did you two do there? Did you do anything else last night?

    I may be overthinking this, but he may of been feeling me out to see if I was with any other men, or if I had been at any parties.
    Which is silly, because I hate crowds and parties and clubs and that general atmosphere.
    I wish there was some trust there… but then again, maybe he wasn’t testing me out.
    Maybe he was trying to make conversation, or somehting innocent and didn’t mean for me to feel analyzed.

    I’m not sure, I felt a little sad because I felt like my mysteriousness in me enjoying myself was all gone, when I told him answers to all these questions.
    What do you sirens think of this? I’m not exactly uncomfortable telling him, but I AM a little reluctant, although I don’t want to lie to him or frustrate him. Or do I want to frustrate him with my mysteriousness?

    Sigh, what do you sirens think of this?

  63.  #63Indigo on November 11, 2014 at 11:44 pm


    Sorry for your disappointment over the singing. I’d have felt bad too, as being the centre of attention in front of a group of people has been a difficult challenge for me to overcome too.

    As to your boyfriend’s questions, I think this is just a typical case of a guy being a bit jealous or possessive, and I really think it’s just him being human, and while he doesn’t necessarily have a right to know all this information, you could choose to let it go. Remember you don’t have to answer any questions that you don’t want to. If it were me, the interest would probably make me feel loved, but I might also get a little annoyed at the possible lack of trust. As I say, you don’t have to answer anything you don’t want to.

  64.  #64Victoria on November 11, 2014 at 11:53 pm

    I loved reading all your thoughts about the moving in together and about how you are soft on the outside and strong inside! You are great!
    Ever since I have been on this blog, I have pretty much deconstructed my idea about relationships. I am not sure if its good or bad, it just is.
    I do not have any particular goal with a man, besides feeling good in the moment when I am with him, and not missing him too much when he is away. Mind you, I am also very much in love with my CDs, but I also see a number of red flags around him.
    I did not quite understand, are you buying the apartment together or not, i.e. are you putting money in it? Damn, I am about to go in advice mode, shut up Victoria!
    Ok, back to my own feelings. It is important for me to have a very beautiful and very comfortable home. My home is a source of pride and security for me… My home is my castle. And I am so not ready to move, or have someone take some of my space. No way. I am not there at all. Fear of intimacy. Here you go.

  65.  #65Victoria on November 12, 2014 at 12:00 am

    Did your man come out of the cave yet?
    It is ok to tell me to mind my own busines if you wish πŸ™‚
    Introvert people are so much better at handling their own curiosity than extroverts πŸ™‚

  66.  #66Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 12:35 am


    No he has not. Well, yesterday I kind of made it worse. Wish I had read Labbit’s post beforehand. We had lunch together (his idea, his way of making up for the time apart) and it was brief, and I started to panic and sent him a really un-sireny message. I feel really guilty about it, but I was missing him so much and finding it all very hard. No judgment from anyone please.

  67.  #67Victoria on November 12, 2014 at 12:54 am

    I love you for your honesty and vulnerability! I was starting to worrythat you (and possibly Labbit) are super-human, and I will never measure up.
    I, for one, can simply not spend two days alone enjoying myself. I admire you for going to that club alone etc., I just could not do it. I would only go with someone else. I have tried being alone over a weekend and by the end of it I was going bananas.
    I went to see a movie alone once, and the movie was fine, but I WOULD NEVER DO THIS AGAIN. I would rather be in bad company than alone.
    I am sending you love and hugs and I am here to tell you that what you did (whatever you did) was not un-sireny but the best thing you could do, because you are the best you that you can be!

  68.  #68Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 1:25 am


    I wanted to burst into tears when I read your post to me – thank you for the love and encouragement and hugs!

    I am very good at being by myself, but even I reach a point where the weight of the feelings I am carrying gets too much for me. You are right, I did the very best that I could do in the moment, and thank you for saying that is not un-sireny.

    I really needed that encouragement, and I can promise you that I am very human indeed. Sometimes I can go long stretches and be doing kind of great and then I kind of crumble. As I was falling asleep last night I really didn’t want to beat myself up and tried to love on myself as hard as I could.

    Love to you. I had a giggle at your story of how you can’t be alone… we are all trying to find our balance I suppose? And sometimes we don’t know what is too much or too little until we hit a wall.


  69.  #69Victoria on November 12, 2014 at 2:12 am

    Let me tell you the details about that movie I went to see on my own.
    We were spending the weekend together with F., and he had to go to a professional event for a couple of hourse on Saturday. It beats me why would any man leave me alone for three hours to meet his colleagues on Saturday… Anyhow, who am I to tell people what to do. When he said he needs to, I smiled and said I had something I had to take care of (no, I did not) and took myself to see the movie. I do not remember the title but it was about this girl who lives together with two men (sleeps with both at the same time in the same bed etc) and then she gets kidnapped and the two of them go out to resque her from the nasty dealers etc. I was thinking, if I am in trouble, will my two-three CDs gather together to save me… Anyhow. I never told him what he did while I was away. Actually, he never asked. What a moron.

  70.  #70Victoria on November 12, 2014 at 2:28 am

    I never told him what I did while he was away, not vice versa.
    What’s wrong with me? Crazy woman.

  71.  #71Kim on November 12, 2014 at 6:00 am

    Hello there!
    Oh Azure, I totally get the leaning back an focusing on me thing – I mostly do ok with it but me too, I have noticed how I can focus on what a man does or doesn’t do when I could very well be focusing on getting my own sh*t done/sorted out/making myself happy. LOL. I love the fact that you can stay open to Spirit and still CD….very inspirational!!!

    Eh. I have had a tough couple of weeks to stay focused on my stuff, a little hopelessness has crept in and some ‘what am I doing’, even though I am actually going to be just ok financially this month (by that I mean I can pay my bills, nothing much more)…yet, I feel unsatisfied with my life and toying with the idea of leaving again. In the end I recognise that if things don’t change dramatically, it is the only way.

    Meanwhile, throughout all this bad feeling couple of weeks, kind of a depression, I had some nice dates with MoM, just nice..nothing is going anywhere and I am of course CDing…but I also don’t have much spare time. I didn’t really feel like he would ever be my rock…or anything like that. Just a guy I date. I don’t know. I know he thinks it is more but he does not act on moving the relationship anywhere, yet he cancels his work party because it is on my birthday – I never asked him to do this, and in fact I might have made other plans…intriguing.

    In the middle of all this, last night, when we came back from a lovely day out, his ex phoned him again….I saw it and he didn’t pick up. I was pretty unsireny (I guess I don’t care about him/relationship) anymore, and also the words were tumbling out of me before I even had time to think or feel. My heartrate just went sky high and I said: oh look, your ex. Why don’t you pick up? I am curious to find out what she wants now.

    He just turned off the phone, said he will deal with it later and that he doesn’t know what she wants.
    I realized that nothing will change. I also know that of course I can’t control her – and stop her from calling him whenever she needs a catsitter/handyman/computer fixer/emotional support.
    I can’t ask him to stop this, as he is his own person.
    It didn’t bother me as much as last time when this happened because last time she called REPEATEDLY until late in the night.
    However, I actually ended the evening short, as it was clear he wasn’t staying overnight because of an early work start and I had ZERO intention/want/feeling for any physical intimacy (and with him then rushing off to potentially deal with another womans whims). Nope. I couldn’t wait to see him go in fact.
    I felt impatient and wanting to be alone.
    He got super clingy and affectionate, instead of addressing the problem…which wound me up even more. Eventually, he left and as I got into bed I felt so meh about everything…

    Blech. This morning I woke up just feeling even more meh.
    It’s not just this…I totally feel turned off by this going nowhere….16 months on and off and I hear things like this: ‘I would love to spend every evening with you, but with you having no car, it’s complicated’.
    Uhmmm….yeah, very complicated especially when moving in is never discussed, which to some would be the obvious solution. I don’t even have expectations. I am just bored and turned off I guess. :/ And the ex phoning was a timely reminder that this is all stalled….and it feels annoying, if not outright bad. As we do have nice times.

    I feel like a hiatus is needed, maybe even a break…and maybe even a clean break. It has not felt so great as of late, a comfy situation for him no doubt, he gets a bit annoyed by me dating other men but he does nothing about it. The ex gf situation is never going to change…I am going to cancel the next few dates we had arranged, spend some time with some other men and see how I feel afterwards. Sigh.

    IDK. I so much feel it in my gut that there is something better than this around the corner for me.
    I can almost smell it in the air. I am not settling for a situation that doesn’t feel good to me, and I do not want to ‘explain’ anything anymore. I do not feel like a babysitter, and I have explained how I feel so many times and how it could be addressed. I find it hard to ‘accept’ a man 100% when he is not really offering me the relationship I want…

    I simply said to him yesterday, that I am not going to make a scene about this ex stuff, but that he knows how I feel about it. He just looked at me blankly, not a word. Not a frigging word?!
    That told me everything. Never gonna change.

  72.  #72Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 6:12 am

    I feel so excited reading – “I so much feel it in my gut that there is something better than this around the corner for me.
    I can almost smell it in the air.” Kim if this is really true I would not settle. I would want this so I would definitely spend time visualizing things that would happen, how I would feel, what he would look like smell like, what his smile will look like, his eyes…….yum yum πŸ™‚

  73.  #73Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 6:13 am

    “He just looked at me blankly, not a word. Not a frigging word?!”

    What else could he do? He knows he would never win.

  74.  #74Kim on November 12, 2014 at 6:14 am

    I feel like once my self esteem is back where it is supposed to be, with my work and life situation in general, everything else will follow, including my man!! And if not, well then I will be ok also.
    I feel ok!

  75.  #75Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 6:25 am

    47 Dominique — Thanks lady! And thank you for the reassurance that I’m not totally weird in my worries. πŸ™‚

    54 Liquid Light — It’s pretty cool, isn’t it? Just using Rori’s tools too…haven’t done anything special. Having a man who’s willing to grow and change with me makes all the difference.

    58 Azure Blu — LOL! πŸ™‚

    61 Indigo — You and I have a slightly different style of relating to men, though I think we’re pretty sympatico in our overall personalities. I feel touched by your gentleness, your calm, your eloquence. Thank you for being a mentor through your comments!

    Also, I know you’ve expressed in the past your ability to really feel whatever D’s feeling, even when you are far away from him. I wonder if perhaps some of your current worry is in fact simply an echo from him? And his worry may not have anything to do with you AT ALL…but it becomes like a chamber where he’s sending worry to you and you’re sending worry back to him and all of a sudden you’re both feeling kind of wobbly? It isn’t your responsibility to fix…it might be less you than you think.

    62 RileyTheOwl — In your shoes I would feel extra Siren-y Riley! Men like to know that their woman is desirable, so while the questions about who you were with and what you were up to may have seemed invasive, C could have been using it to stoke his fires for you, so to speak. To me, it’s an opportunity to be extra coy and flirty! If he asks “What did you do last night?” I might just say “I met up with a friend.” Singular. Friend. Not friends. Then if he asks, “And what did you two do?” I might just smile and throw a flirty glance at him. If he asks any more questions I might just change the subject. Ignore his persistence. Unless you guys are married or engaged, it’s not his business who you’ve been with and what you’ve done. Let him think about that a little. You won’t frustrate him with mysteriousness. It will intrigue him, even if that comes off as frustration in the moment from him. Of course, you don’t want to push it too far — if
    he keeps bringing it up for days in a worried fashion I’d put his fears to rest through reassurance, but otherwise I’m totally OK with letting my man wonder who I’m with and what I’m doing.

  76.  #76Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 6:32 am

    64 Victoria — Yes I understand what you’re saying about deconstructing relationships. I have a habit of trying to rush to the finish (being married!) and it feels so much better when I just slow down, let myself drop all those agendas and just be. It feels scary too! Like I’m falling off a cliff, and not sure what lies below.

    TenderCD is purchasing the apartment. It’s a Co-op so both of our names will be on the property deed and we will be both be listed as residents in the building bylaws, with him as the owner. I know this is risky, which is part of the reason why I wouldn’t want to live there without being engaged. I’m not financially in a position to contribute towards the purchase and TenderCD knows that. There are things I can buy like furniture and perhaps the monthly maintenance fees. But TenderCD hasn’t asked for any of that and if I don’t want to step on his very attractive habit of providing for me. πŸ™‚ I’m sure that if he wants me to kick in he will ask.

    Also to your comment 67 hahahaha, I feel flattered that you think I’m superhuman! Far from it, more that I feel so good in this moment and I want to share it with Siren Island while I’m feeling strong and secure. πŸ™‚ I’ve shared some of my most anxious, fearful, worried moments here too…I’m grateful for all the support I got and want to return the gesture.

  77.  #77Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 6:55 am

    Labbit 75,

    You’re absolutely right, I felt a stark shift in the energy yesterday and it’s making me feel bad.

    Thank you so much for these words, especially saying it’s probably not all me, that feels very comforting. πŸ™‚

  78.  #78Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 6:55 am

    One other thing that just popped into my head. I remember during an argument with TenderCD, he said something like, “You are always so worried about getting to the finish line! It’s like it’s all that you care about. But what happens when we cross it? When we’re married? Life doesn’t stop. It doesn’t end there. We don’t ride off into happily ever after. I don’t think we EVER to get the finish line. It’s one long ride babe. So enjoy the moments along the way because that’s all you get. There’s no medal at the end. Hell, I hope we never reach the end…all that’s there is death.”

    He was so right! About all of it, me making marriage the goal but not thinking about anything after it. How I was missing lots of beautiful, intimate moments because my mind kept telling me ‘nope, this isn’t it. no commitment yet. keep going.’ The way he could see the bigger picture while I was stuck on the little things, and how life is lived in a series of moments, a series of ‘nows.’ Stuff like that. He’s so brilliant…it helped me to slow down a lot. I could really inside his heart and his head in that moment and appreciate his point of view. Life is a never-ending journey until our final breath. And if I’m not here for each moment I miss out on some truly great stuff.

  79.  #79Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 7:03 am

    77 Indigo — Yeah, I really feel it’s not you here…though obviously I’m speaking as an internet buddy. You mentioned that D’s house is currently being worked on and painted and how you saw his stress in that. It’s his home, his cave, his secure space, and right now it’s being threatened in a way, you know? Because he has all these strangers working on it and his safe spot is missing. So I could totally see him being stressed out and worried about even if he has it totally handled (I’m sure he does) and even if he doesn’t realize it.

    I’m sure you’re feeling his worries more than you might realize too. Don’t worry about whatever unsireny thing you think you did yesterday…he probably only half-realized it because he’s distracted. Like water off a duck’s back. But what he will feel right now, a lot, is your calm and support, as much as you can muster. Again it’s not your responsibility so don’t feel pressured. I think you have such a gift for helping people feel calm, reassured and most of all competent, and right now that would be a big help for D. I know I have felt that way reading your comments here, and that’s really really powerful stuff.

  80.  #80Kim on November 12, 2014 at 7:03 am

    73, I guess FW…though for me it is not so much about who wins. If I was with a man and in love and an ex would call me (which would never happen, anyway), and he would be pissed/concerned/upset, I wouldn’t just sit there saying nothing.
    I would try to work with him, not just push my own thing through and defend my position.
    I think compromise is important.
    Saying nothing and doing what I want anyway without considering my partner, is not a trait I would value in a man.

  81.  #81Kim on November 12, 2014 at 7:08 am

    Labbit, I love what TenderCD said and even more do I love that he put you both on the property deed….his feet and everything else is firmly pointed towards you and towards a future with you.
    I love it.
    How long have you dated him?

  82.  #82Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 8:21 am


    This must be at least the second time (maybe more) that you have simply blown me away with your words to me. I feel very warm and complimented, and I really feel safe in your very accurate and wise interpretation of the situation, so thank you very much.

    You inspire me, your posts are tremendously helpful to me as well… in fact I’ve printed your post 44 on a sheet of paper which is sitting on my bed because I thought it was so good.

    I love reading about where you and TenderCD are taking your relationship! x

  83.  #83Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 9:28 am

    RE 80 Kim men think differently than us. Most go through with a mission to “win”.

    Bottom line is that he is single. Maybe in his mind he is not considering anyone as “partner”. Maybe he just considers himself a good guy so when someone (the ex) reaches out asking for help, his good guy persona drives him to respond. It is likely that his relationship with you is in one compartment while the rest of his life is in another. You also suggested that you did tell him you were not going to make a big deal about her call. Yet my thinking is he cannot stop her from calling. If you think he should block her number or block her out of his life I wonder if he knows that is what you want.

  84.  #84Kim on November 12, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Well, no, I am not wanting to ‘block’ anyone like that.
    I would have liked to have seen him discuss with me how he thinks this is going to work, as he expressed multiple times that he wants me to be his gf and everytime I say that I can not, for this reason as well as the reason of me not wanting to be a gf without a future at least on the table (marriage and/or moving in), he just drops it.
    And gets annoyed when I date other men, but then drops that too.
    And I guess he is comfortable with things as they are. As long as another woman has him by the short and curlies, and he is not making a plan of us stayin together, I am not really interested in his compartments.

  85.  #85Kim on November 12, 2014 at 9:43 am

    In fact, I feel myself less and less interested in him as time goes by. It’s interesting that he is not noticing that, actually.
    I don’t email, text or answer every text or email he sends.
    I forget mostly.
    I suppose this is what Rori means by becoming bored with men who don’t step up and/ or cherish our feelings.
    He treats me well which is why I still have him around, but, my friends treat me well also.
    So what?!

  86.  #86Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Kim for some reason some men don’t like it when we discuss relationship. They prefer to just live it. They want bringing up marriage and the discussion to be their idea. Frankly reading your comments on and off I don’t get the impression that he wants to get married. He, from what you have written, clearly states he wants a gf. I believe he does notice that you are not leaning forward as much but in the bigger scheme of things he is comfortable. He is getting his needs met so he is likely balancing the trade off. You rattle the cage a little bit here and there but you are going nowhere. Even if things get unsettled for a while he knows you will take him back. There really is no urgency or any need for him to change anything.

    Some people need positive reinforcement while others need negative to get moving.

  87.  #87Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Kim 84,

    “the reason of me not wanting to be a gf without a future at least on the table (marriage and/or moving in)” – do you want this with him?

    Is this truly the man that you want these things with? As I don’t get the feeling that your feelings for him are very strong

  88.  #88Gemini Goddess on November 12, 2014 at 10:52 am

    RE Kim 71

    Hi Everyone- New here. At least posting. Kim, I had just a terrible time at first regarding my CDs ex. I’ll call him “D”. They were together for 4 years, lived together (with kids from previous relationships) for 3, and had broken up 9 months before we met. She left him. Bummer. Needless to say, though I was feeling SO hopeful about us, and he gave me every indication he felt the same, I felt very uneasy about possible residual feelings for her.

    A couple weeks after we met he “cleared the decks” for me (his words), meaning he ended it with all other people he was dating, one in particular. I did not ask him to do this and did not promise the same, but did stop dating other men (but not CDing myself!) a couple weeks later. Two months into the relationship, with him driving like a freight train, he casually mentioned before a long weekend date, that his ex and her sister had come over the day before so he could install a GPS in the car her daughter uses. I felt sick. My throat tightened. I tasted metal. My hands went cold and numb. I could tell he thought absolutely nothing of it. I had not realized they had had such a continuing rapport, and were still on such terms. I felt SO confused, and sad, and frustrated with myself, and confused (did I say that already?) I wanted to run away. I can feel it all again right now. πŸ™ Somehow I managed to put it temporarily out of my mind. I felt so overwhelmed by the news, but also so excited for our date, and he very clearly meant nothing by it, and wasn’t keeping anything from me. Bottom line, I wanted to think about it and apply the tools before I said or did anything.

    The next day we talked about it and he assured me it meant absolutely nothing, that he’d put the same GPS in his car when they lived together and so knew how to do it. He just wanted to be a good guy. All the standard, and to many, perfectly acceptable reasons. Rationally it made perfect sense, but I could NOT feel okay about it, in fact I felt worse and worse, and so disappointed in myself for not having a more “elevated” perspective”. The next day, I sent him this in email because it was easier to think through and keep it together:

    “I’ve thought a lot about our conversation yesterday regarding M. I think that I understand where you are coming from, and your intentions there. I hope you also understand my discomfort given everything. I have to tell you that it still feels very much not okay with me. Wish it were otherwise, but it’s not.

    I hope that your current feelings for her are such that being out of contact with her would not represent a major sacrifice or disappointment for you. I hope that your feelings for me are such that my request is easily doable, a simple no-brainer, and not a deal breaker.

    I dislike that this is getting attention right now. The weekend was so fantastic, even with the bike wreck. You were pretty much my hero.”

    To which he responded:

    “Easy. You are my babe. She is not. Your request is easily doable. I can’t promise I won’t get an occasional (logistical) text or email but no more installations! All my fix it stuff, outside of my own house will go to you!”

    (Note: The logistical text or email is regarding their kids who lived together and are still in contact. Nothing I can do about that.)

    I don’t know if this story is helpful, but it was the first time I really truly felt totally honest, and accepting myself, and advocating for ME on this topic WITHOUT apologizing. It was my RR breakthrough. πŸ™‚

    Since then we have discussed this a length. They are, to my best knowledge, not in contact at all really and it’s been 5 months since then.

    Thanks for listening. πŸ™‚

  89.  #89Mistea1 on November 12, 2014 at 10:57 am

    ((( Indigo, Labbit, Victoria )))) You are all so helpful to me. You keep me from caving each time I read you. After 10 days of being strong I heard: “I haven’t seen you in forever.” Then I read your recent posts!
    I finally had a chance to actually try some of Rori’s techniques due to coaching by Mary Catherine who is excellent.
    This was on low risk men by the way, one a relative and one a non-relative. What I did: feeling statements kind face, lean back, no pressure, let them speak first, let them lead the conversation, smile, short statements only,give them opportunity to step up to the plate, stand there until he says something. The last two are very hard for me.
    Relative: my brother: we took a day trip for a mutual interest. Usually we are fighting within the first 45 minutes and I have limited contact with him for the last year. I have to fight for bathroom and food breaks, philosophy, sibling stuff, and I get all the construction zone driving time. This time no fighting at all, I got all the breaks I needed, he paid for all gas and dinner, I got the easist drive times and I even learned a lot more about our mutual interest because of no squabbling. Result for me was I relaxed, felt much less tension, and at end of trip 1:30 a.m., I was able to drive my last 40 minutes with enough energy to complete the drive without so much exhaustion. I was able to say what I needed to say and didn’t feel deprived as usual. Sirens, it means a lot to me to not fight with my only close relative left. Thank you Mary and Rori.
    Now the non-relative: I met the speaker of the program about 20 minutes before the meeting. I did all the above and essentially treated him like I did my brother except longer eye contact and recognization he was a non-relative! First, he mentioned his wife which I think some men do to let me know what he will say next is friendly and not a come-on to take seriously. then he called over to my brother, “Your sister is my new best friend” while smiling and doing the male version of giggling. With that he pointed out an important piece of information that is essential for my project and will send me an important picture I need through my brother. Sirens, all I did was to tell about my project in a few words and not ask for anything. He picked up the ball and helped BETTER than if I was long winded and pushy. (Like usual) It was EFFORTLESS on my part. I remained leaned back and gracious. I felt relaxed and so taken care of. I am sold on CDing with everyone.
    Next Sunday is 22 days and a recital is coming up where music Td will have to make opening comments. I had such a good time with the “admiration gazing” the last time I intend to do so this time and after the recital to just be in the crowd and be available but not approach him and see what happens. Other wise it is back to lean back for another 2 weeks to see if he is able to approach me in a more solid way, i.e. ask for a time to be with me in a social context. Can he? will he? won’t he? Meanwhile I smile with obvious pleasure when I do see him but won’t speak unless spoken to. Thanks a bunch to you all.

  90.  #90Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 11:19 am

    81 Kim — Aww, thanks! It’s very exciting to be listed as a co-property resident. Assuming the offer goes through and such though everything is looking good. I’ve known TenderCD for about 13 months in total. We’ve dated twice, with a break of a few months in between. All in all we’ve been dating about 9 months.

    If I have this right it feels like you’re here riffing more than seeking advice, so I hope you don’t mind that I’m going to chime in. I feel intrigued by your exchange with FeminineWoman!

    I think you have an amazing gut instinct. I see it a lot in your comments, here in the way you feel like it wouldn’t be a good idea to block MoM from talking to his ex, and how something inside you is telling you to make yourself less available to him.

    Reading your update, I wonder if MoM is very confused? And in turn it’s confusing you? For example, he brought up the girlfriend chat and you laid out your requirements for commitment. Perfect. But then everything in your relationship continues the same way. Then sometime later it sounds like MoM checked in with you again, do you want to be my girlfriend? And you again told him what it would take for you to be his girlfriend.

    So now MoM is really confused. He’s thinking something like, ‘She says she doesn’t want to be my girlfriend without these x things, but she still accepts my dates, makes time for me, and pretty much acts like she’s my girlfriend.’ And then he’s like ‘???!?’ So he drops it, because he’s confused. That might be why he hasn’t brought up moving in together either — because your words and your actions aren’t lining up to him. And please know, I’m not laying ANY blame when I say this. It’s not your fault. You guys are just communicating with each other in two different ways. He’s guided by your actions and right now your actions are saying you’re cool with the way things are.

    So you’re right on track when your gut is telling you not to make a big deal about the ex (because in your mind he’s not your boyfriend yet so you’d be crossing a line in making any requests/demands there) and when your gut tells you to be less available to him.

    To me, if you want him to want to make you his girlfriend as you define it, you might need to back away from him entirely for a bit. As in, not available at all. No taking his calls. No responding to his texts. For a couple of weeks maybe? If he leaves a message asking you to talk, THAT’s when you respond, after a day or two of getting that ‘I want to talk’ message from him. Because now he’s signaled through his action of asking to talk that he’s ready to hear you. And then you’d be able to share in feeling messages your feminine-energy wants as a RESPONSE, which he would hear as the leader of the relationship. Versus right now if you brought up the girlfriend criteria to him, he wouldn’t be open to it and it would feel like masculine, pushing energy to both of you.

    You have the talk when he requests it and then if he says no or doesn’t take the actions you want, you back away again. You tell him through your ACTIONS that he’s not cutting it for you. This is something he can understand. He hears this message of your actions and not only that, he figures out how to fix it all on his own! So now he gets the masculine pleasure of being the leader, figuring it out, and you win because YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT. Which you totally deserve, because you’re awesome. I bet the ex disappears at this point too.

    There is also a chance that he walks away. But really, if a man walks away when he requested your wants and needs, he’s not the man for you anyway.

  91.  #91Labbit on November 12, 2014 at 11:21 am

    86 FeminineWoman — This is so wise! I agree most men don’t like to discuss relationship. They observe what we will and won’t tolerate and then act based on that. It’s only when they signal that they’re ready to talk about something that they can truly hear us. And Rori has amazing tips about how to help a man get ready to hear us. πŸ™‚

  92.  #92Azure Blu on November 12, 2014 at 11:50 am

    Wow!!! there is SOOOO much AMazing first hand information on here Sirens!!!
    I feel inspired to take my RR tools to the next level…

    Thank you all for taking the time to share your journey and the way you are using the Tools!!

  93.  #93Azure Blu on November 12, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    YOU are a rock star!!! Thanks for sharing!

  94.  #94Azure Blu on November 12, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Gemini Goddess…
    How lovely to see you here on Siren Island…
    You are so brave to open up and share this wonderful story…
    I can feel your vulnerability and authenticity as you asked D for what you wanted…
    I love how you waited to respond… to feel YOUR feelings and to see what was going on with YOU regarding his ex…
    I feel happy that he responded like a knight in shining armor!!!

  95.  #95Azure Blu on November 12, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    How cool that you did this:
    “and during my walk I addressed my anger and really felt it and then brought C away from the picture and just focused on MY anger and sadness…. And after awhile I just began to feel like laughing.”

  96.  #96Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Gemini Goddess thanks for sharing that. It was really eye-opening and insightful.

  97.  #97Femininewoman on November 12, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    RE 90 Labbit – I felt a really big internal WOW when reading this. Such a clear perspective looking at it through your eyes. Really instructive like a master Siren.

  98.  #98Mistea1 on November 12, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    ((( Kim 85 and Femininewoman 86))))
    Gosh I really felt triggered about your comments of “less and less interested as time goes by.” “bored with men who don’t step up and/or cherish our feelings” and “no urgency and/or need for him to change anything.” I spent many years in a marriage of this sort. I had children to raise and kept the status quo. When they were old enough and I felt the only reasonable thing to do was suicide I decided to leave this loveless, boring time with a man who treated me like a servant. I went to marriage counseling etc. When the divorce became final I moved to another state and roomed in a house with an older lady who let out rooms for single working women. She had her room on the ground floor between the front and back doors and every night when I got to my room I felt thankful to be in a safe place. I finally was able to move out on my own but every night for the last 20 years I have come home after work and felt grateful for my safe and pleasant single home. I’m grateful for Rori’s emphasis on our own self-esteem and being our own woman and to my coach Mary Catherine and to the professional help I have received for my feeling of being a whole person. I’m trying out the possiblity of being in a relationship again and whether or not I suceed I know now that I am enough.

  99.  #99Kim on November 12, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    87 Indigo
    I believe the reasons why I didn’t ‘fall’ for this man, are the precise reasons I have stated here.
    You don’t believe how happy I feel that I don’t put loving feelings for a man above my own best interests.
    Been there, done that, this is why I am here.
    I believe ‘feelings for a man’ and ‘love’ only work when he has committed to us. Else, we risk becomig attached to guys who are any of the following:
    – non-committal
    – manboys
    – unable to ‘do’ relationship (like my guy)
    I thank my lucky stars that I finally understood the concept:
    rather than:
    Cling to a man you love even if he doesn’t want the same things as me and make excuses as to why (he has a mental problem, he does not want as much closeness as me and that is somehow ‘fine’)
    Blah blah blah.
    So, no, I do not and will not ever put my feelings for a man above my own well being.
    I do have loving feelings for him, but now I am mostly bored.

  100.  #100Kim on November 12, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    (((Mistea1)))) whoa.
    Kudos to you.
    You’re one strong siren.

  101.  #101Kim on November 12, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    90 Labbit – what a great post!
    Thank you sooooo much for all that!
    I think you are right! Totally!
    I am unsure as to whether you know my full story, but what you say here actually played out a couple of times.
    I withdrew.
    He asked for ‘the talk’
    He talked, all he said was that he was sad I withdrew.
    When I asked him what it is he wanted for the relationship and us in the future, he said ‘to be happy’.
    I asked for detail.
    He wants to talk but he does not want to lead.
    He also never offered to discuss the ex issue, he basically said that he uhderstands how I feel but that is my insecurity, and he and her are friends for many years and he will always be there for you.
    So it’s kinda dead this deal.
    I decided to NOT be his gf unless something changes, and to date him as long as it feels good….and now I am unsure it does.
    He might be confused.
    We have been dating on and off for 16 months and these are the reasons we had many a hiatus.
    I don’t see much change and he sometimes says before he wants to discuss the future I have to agreee to be a gf first.
    I said: no.

    We have kinda been there, done that. I am just tired with a half assed kindergarten relationship that takes up a lot of my time (I like to hang out with him)….but I could be dating more CD’s.
    And you are right.
    I will be scarce now, also because I don’t feel to see him anyway.
    Just thinking he is – probably right now – at the exes house. Yuck.
    Plus, he kind of buggered up our date we had for tomorrow, saying one of his friends gave him a free tocket for a football game but ‘sorry, there is only one’.
    I feel pissed and bored enough not to be tempted to see him for a few days!

  102.  #102Kim on November 12, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    Be ther for her, not you lol

  103.  #103Kim on November 12, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    Gemini Goddess, wow! I am so happy for you! Those two even have kids together and he SAID THAT to you?
    Just to put it into perspective, I pretty much said tye same to MoM….and did not ask him to cut contact..but I said I would feel better if it was dialed down.
    Well, nothing.
    And when she needed her computer fixed, he jumped, and said to me ‘well, I know about computers, of course I will do it for her, you would also ask an ex for help if he knew about computers’. I said: no, I wouldn’t. I would google the problem or pay for help.
    No comment from him.
    He is not cherishing my feelings but just defending his running around her every time she breaks a nail.

  104.  #104Kim on November 12, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    86 FW – you are totally right. No doubt about it!

  105.  #105Beloved on November 12, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    Andrea…isn’t it a great question?
    It has been running around in my mind for a while.
    I especially like that I used the word “trust” instead of believe.
    The more I thought about this question, and your post, the more I smiled. A big, beaming, perma-smile kind of smile. Walked around all day giggling to myself as if I have some kind of special secret.
    Because I do trust, that I am good enough. For ANYONE. Trust, for me, is beyond ‘feeling’ good enough, maybe it could be called ‘knowing’ just is, regardless of how I feel or what I think, the truth of it rings through, permeates my whole being.
    I am EXACTLY the kind of woman I want to be.
    Really…totally..exactly who I want to be.

    There is room for improvement, growth, change, and yet, I am so perfectly in sync with myself and I feel so secure in simply being me.

  106.  #106Kim on November 12, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    I have decided, I am not going to be a b*tch about it and nicely cancel our date for Friday, and then get really busy, well I don’t have to get busy, I am incredibly busy!!

  107.  #107Andrea on November 12, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    Oh Beloved, I love it!! Yes, I feel what you’re saying here resonates with me now. “Trust”… not just believe it, or think it, but trusting kind of implies that it already is SO. Wonderful. Yes.

    That is inspiring for me. I do trust that I’m “good enough” for a certain type of man. (the type of man I always seem to end up with) But I’m just now realizing that I’ve been telling myself the story that… the kind of man I would like to be with (for what ever reason) would not like me. Why??? Why is that my script?

    I feel thankful that I’m realizing this. Also I feel more in control of the situation… more empowered than I thought I was. Because now I know I can work on changing the script.

  108.  #108lovetodance on November 12, 2014 at 6:19 pm

    oh golly gee ….

    i feel moved when i read the insights, understandings, breakthroughs happening here on this blog….

    in all honesty i feel sorta like the dullest knife in the drawer in terms of movement and change in my dealings with men….even tho i know thats not totally true….

    i don’t feel that i am afraid of intimacy…more i am afraid of boredom, judgement [me of them] and getting stuck in unsatisfying patterns with someone…and wishing i was single….

    so i continue to find un-available men….
    the latest is seemingly available…beautiful heart, handsome, poetic soul who is not living in this day to day rat race….actually he’s living in his van….

    i have to laugh at the irony or whatever one would call it…i have never been traditional….but even this is a bit much for me….
    and he wants to spend time with me…oh for goodness sakes…why can’t i be alittle more, how one would say, normal?!

    this has bought up judgement of him, myself…
    he is on his voyage…literally,
    i am on mine….only a have a cozy warm lovely [to me] house….
    he seemingly is unemcumbered and free….but really?
    and i am encumbered and free and tied down….

    such existensial angst and neurotic questioning of myself and my values….this has triggered….

    he has moved something ancient in me…something that reminds me of love and sweetness….but i know if i allowed him close all i would do is want him to change so i could feel comfortable….
    our lifestyles could not be more polar opposite….yet our souls seem to have a connection….

    i shut him out the other day in my walk in the park…yes another man, in a park…i feel like a park woman ranger or something….
    i told him i needed to protect my energy because i am overly sensitive….which is true….i know if i start to care about him…then i will worry about him, want to help him…etc….

    he is not asking….
    just wants to spend some conversation time together…
    and then i get all like this…..
    wow….i would feel so good if i could just talk with him without all this agitttta……

    i over-analyze i over-think and i take all the fun out of just getting to know someone…i just get so freaked out that i will hurt them, or feel guilty if i don’t help or something….

    hope it is obvious that i am riffing here….just need to get it down and out….i feel bad that i hurt his feelings already….i saw him across the park today and he kept from making eye contact with me….oh well….

    i just wish for more light-heartedness in me….

  109.  #109Emerson on November 12, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    I noticed that when I feel intense sadness/anxiety, I feel a pressure in my head…behind my forehead. And I also feel a choking in my throat.
    I feel like I may be a little short of breath maybe during those times too. I feel a tingling in my legs and feet. It’s such an uncomfortable feeling. I only feel it if I really let myself FEEL the sadness and anxiety…

  110.  #110Tee on November 12, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    Are we allowed to start our own threads here? Or do we just post on any thread?
    I’d really like (again) to post my questions &/or situation to receive feedback. Thanks ☺

  111.  #111Gemini Goddess on November 12, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    Azure Blu and Femininewoman – Thank you! So glad to be here (and now participating). I feel so welcome. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ Such warm and validating words, Azule Blu. I feel like I’m blushing. πŸ™‚

    Kim – They do NOT have kids together, just kids from previous relationships that lived together with them. If they did, and he had said that to me, it really WOULD be something. Ha!

    “Some people need positive reinforcement while others need negative to get moving.”
    I remember reading that in a book called “Succeed”, and had not considered it in terms of relationships, but see now it makes perfect sense. Thanks for writing that.

  112.  #112RileyTheOwl on November 12, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Indigo 63,

    I so feel comforted and understood when somebody else truly understands what it’s like to suffer from anxiety and panic attacks. As I have most likely talked about before, the last 3 years have been a journey on my healing path through anxiety. At the start, of course, I was completely overwhelmed by it… when I began getting anxiety attacks while giving presentations and even just in rooms with large people, I felt sooo scared. During the second year, I began to stop hiding from my anxiety, and I got help… and the last year has been such a healing year of trying new things and putting myself out there. Challenging myself. I still have a long way to go, but I am so proud of how I’m testing myself and moving myself gently forward through it. πŸ™‚

    As for the questions, yes!!! I totally agree with you on how he’s most likely a little jealous, protective. Maybe feeling a little sad that I’m with somebody else and not him. Now, my dream man of course would TELL me this, and then ask me out and say he really wants to see me. I also know that C is totally capable of this, and lately I have most likely been accidentally shutting him out due to me trying to focus on myself so hard. Oohhhh, whoops. Maybe he’s been feeling a little bit unworthy lately, just because I have kind of been distancing myself in an un-sireny way πŸ™ or he doesn’t feel 100% safe around me for a similar reason. Whatever the cause, I have most surely been really spending a lot of time with my friends and with myself, following my passions, spending a lot of my time at Choir and rehearsals for the musical (I was successful in my auditions, yay!) and I’m just in a happy place with myself right now πŸ™‚

    I like your idea of letting it go… and I will let it go now…. He was curious about me (: and when or if it comes up again… I’ll see how I’m feeling in that moment with it, and follow how I’m feeling. If I don’t feel like telling, I’ll not tell.

  113.  #113Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Kim 99,

    Thanks for explaining. Think I understand now. That’s very cool.

  114.  #114Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 11:02 pm


    I understand the journey to overcoming anxiety and panic very well. I’m very introverted and extremely sensitive, and these factors do contribute to certain situations feeling pretty overwhelming.

    The good news is that as you face it, and feel the feelings, and learn to self-soothe, you can overcome it more and more, little bit by little bit as time goes by. I still have days where my anxiety can floor me but it is less and less often, and it lasts for shorter periods. I’ve found the biggest challenge is loving myself through these times, because I can find myself with a residue of guilty or remorseful feelings, and I have to just remember that I am who I am and love and celebrate that. I can also now do public speaking and while I feel the shaky feelings, it doesn’t affect my performance. That just comes with practice and you are still so young! Singing in front of people is more of a challenge for me, but this is something I would love to overcome and be able to do.

  115.  #115Indigo on November 12, 2014 at 11:08 pm


    It would not be possible for us to start our own threads, only Rori can start a new thread.

    Would you like to post your question again here, and we will see if we can provide feedback?

  116.  #116Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 12:58 am

    13 days on my no-lean forward diet, I am discovering that my love is fueled by my overfunctioning.
    When I stop that, the crazy love feeling diminishes…
    And I am getting slightly bored, just as Rori says I would.
    I love cooking and I love bringing food I have cooked to F. when he works (he has night shifts and 12 hour day shifts occasionally) and I love the idea of surpising him with a home made desert. I have not done this for ages, and my hands are itching. But no, I will not do it.
    But I just loves cooking for him, and bringing it to him, and him thanking me, and him saying no one has ever done this for him in his life, and I am the best cook and the sweetest woman and the love of his life.
    And then, nothing moves forward. So, no more deserts. He is too fat to be eating that much sweets. Yes.

  117.  #117Femininewoman on November 13, 2014 at 1:48 am

    Victoria that is because you ARE love. It is centered inside you. I’d encourage you to find other activities like volunteering to help those less fortunate and doing this for yourself that bring out those loving feelings. Visualize yourself radiating love and know it is not about him.

  118.  #118Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 2:18 am

    You are absolutely right. I am so grateful to this blog, and for all the ladies here helping me see this.
    I have also learned to date myself and my female friends and perfect strangers, in order to express this love, which needs a place to go :-).

    Thank you.

  119.  #119Kim on November 13, 2014 at 5:02 am

    116 Victoria…ha ha!
    Your post made me smile

  120.  #120Labbit on November 13, 2014 at 5:30 am

    101 Kim — Ah, so you’ve already lived it all out! Haha. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. So yeah, hmm, then you are running out of options. Sounds like you already know what to do. I totally agree with what you said above, a better guy is right around the corner…

    108 lovetodance — There are many times when I’ll catch myself feeling heavy, like everything is an undue burden and wondering why life feels so hard. I give myself a moment to dig in and grieve whatever it is that’s causing the pain…then I like to start thinking of silly things, like an elephant in a tutu holding up a parasol. Just keep momentarily acknowledging and then turning away from that heaviness. It does get better in time if you commit to catching yourself and then bringing yourself lighter.

  121.  #121Kim on November 13, 2014 at 5:59 am

    120 yup Labbit!
    I believe that too.
    I mean, I really like him, he is a great guy, sweet and fun, we have a lot in common but….but nothing is moving into any direction, and never really has.
    In the beginning, when I did not even know about the ex, he was often MIA for a few days and I later found out fixing stuff and doing stuff for her. At the time I had no idea, but always though there is another woman he is dating…lol.
    Maybe he is just the eternal bachelor type, and perhaps he likes it. Who cares. I deserve better and I deserve to be someone’s ‘one and only’, otherwise there is no point, I might as well date players who are more exciting – if nothing happens anyway. LOL.
    He might change, but it’s very unlikely at this point.
    I am unwilling to babysit him untik he grows up.

  122.  #122Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 6:20 am

    Let me post a little riff devoted to you, as a thank you for sharing in my sense of humor.

    I am a dark and currning force, capable of doing all sorts of things to mark my territory, lalalalalala.
    I have a whole repertoir of unsireny things which I will most probably not use, but there is no harm in thinking about them.
    I have zero fear that he will want to spend time with his ex… she is an ex for a reason, and that reason is that she is not me.

    So many men want me, and I have so little time. God Bless Azure Blu for these words of wisdom!

  123.  #123Mistea1 on November 13, 2014 at 6:22 am

    ((( Victoria 116 ))))) Yes, I agree, I’m 16 days into lean back and the craziness is starting to calm down. I also learned to keep away from relationship movies too. I had fun CDing other people and intend to keep that up. Being bored. Is that with the person because there is no energy being directed at them? Is that what you mean? You all are so helpful in keeping me strong.

  124.  #124Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 6:23 am

    Cunning Force.
    My spelling is terrible, I might as well shoot myself.

  125.  #125Kim on November 13, 2014 at 6:25 am

    LOL Victoria!
    Yes, I do like your posts.
    True an ex being an ex for a reason..though sometimes men get dumped and although theybare in a new relationship never forget the ex. I do not want that.
    More specifically, someone I was dating lately, actually went quiet on me and I found out he returned to the ex he previously called ‘crazy’. Lol.
    Anyway, it is so many men and so little time..
    Plus, I feel willing to squander my best years away on those who do not want the same thing and remain stuck in their past. Nope.
    Too much to do, places to go, people to see.
    On that note…

  126.  #126Kim on November 13, 2014 at 6:26 am

    Plus, I might just devote a whole day to being an unsireny b*tch. Just because I can and it feels good! Just a day…lol

  127.  #127Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 6:33 am

    You are a wonderful, very interesting, and very strong woman!
    At first I was not understanding you being so moved by the music etc., but after I read your story yesteday, I understand and I bow in front of you.
    You are blessed to have sensitivities that many people (me included lack).
    I doubt I can give any clarification – I am in a state of change and transition and I do not know what I will become at the end of the process…
    I have figured out that we need to give love and to receive love… But you need to able to find someone who wants to take love. What FW told me is very good: volunteer to help people who need help.
    This is really not boring and I love the idea!

  128.  #128Victoria on November 13, 2014 at 6:40 am

    A guy I considered the love of my life, dumped me for, and married two months later a woman who was an ex and a friend.
    As a consequence, I was so heartbroken, that I went to grad school in a foreign country and got an advanced degree, as a consequence of which now I have an amazing job.
    Him dumping me for her was the best thing he did for me, and it propelled me to my present life, which I love, and which is a million times better to what I could have had with him.
    Have no fear darling for anything a man can/will/will not do! It is always for the best!

  129.  #129lovetodance on November 13, 2014 at 8:18 am

    120 labbit

    thanks for your input labbit….it is a good suggestion….i will work [playfully] with….

  130.  #130Stephanie on November 13, 2014 at 9:17 am

    @Sabs I wanted to reach out and give you a hug to say it’s all going to be okay. I so hear you and remember feeling the same way when my man said that he didn’t think he could give me what I needed.

    Men are so amazing in knowing almost more than we do what we need.

    I found that when I gave him some space and appreciation when we did connect, it inspired him and gave him confidence in us and himself.

    I also stopped sharing with him anything that my family or friends said about him unless it was positive.

    I can hear you’re confusion and I hope that my sharing helps you in some way.

    It sounds like you’ve got this for the most part and I’m confident that it will all work itself out for your best.

  131.  #131Andrea on November 13, 2014 at 10:23 am

    ugh.. I feel so triggered today. So triggered that I’m being unnecessarily mean to men.

    I see this image of my dad standing to pray at our Thanksgiving event. My whole family, siblings, boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, wives, all the kids and grand kids and great grand kids and my mom… all gathered around him, our heads bowed in submission and “prayer stance.” And we let him drone on and on and on… not really praying but preaching sin and repentance and hell to his audience of about forty people in all.

    And I just feel sickened, and used, and betrayed, and unheard, and encroached upon, and invaded, and … I want to grab my two daughters and run out of there, far far away. I want to shake their shoulders and yell.. shake it off! shake it off!! You get to think for yourself. You get to be You. I will love you no matter what. I won’t let anybody shove their religion, or their ideals down your throat and barter with your heart, and threaten withdrawing love if you don’t bend to their will.

    ugh.. I feel so triggered today and I find myself hating men who need me to approve of them and appreciate them so much that they won’t let me have my own space.

    I had to tell three different men today: “I feel overwhelmed with my own life right now and I don’t want to focus my attention on anybody but me. Thank you for understanding.”

    Two of them got mad at me. Like.. how I dare I… and one just responded. “Ok”

    I want cave time and I get angry at these poor men because they can’t read my mind. But I also just feel really triggered when I feel men getting needy.

    ugh.. just feeling ugh today.

  132.  #132Mistea1 on November 13, 2014 at 11:44 am

    (( Victoria ))) Yes, I heard the music 5 weeks before I met the man. It was as if “absolute beauty releases it self as liquid silver flowing seamlessly through the human conduit. Hands expressing, revealing heavens sounds on earth with rainbow sparkles flying all about.”
    I had the strange feeling that the reason this church had a screen separating the organ from the rest of the church is because the sparkles would be too distracting to the listeners. πŸ™‚ Yes, I am still in touch with reality and enjoying this different trip I’m on!

  133.  #133lovetodance on November 13, 2014 at 11:47 am


    a big hug to you….a big big hug to you

    thank you for sharing these feelings….thank you for sharing your strength and anger and upset-ness…

    i feel your daughters are very lucky to have a mother who cares that much about them….and honors the right for each person, man or woman to have boundaries and decide what is right or wrong without being beat into submission….

    this too is part of my idea of being a siren….

  134.  #134Kim on November 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    128 Victoria! Yay to you! πŸ™‚

  135.  #135Kim on November 13, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    And as my unsireny day is almost at an end, I finished it off beautifully and feel really smug.
    So MoM my dater so far, is going to a football game tonight…yesterday he informed me that there is only a free season ticket (from his friends) available tonight, not two which he usually takes me, and he sent a sad face.
    It doesn’t occur to him to get into masculine energy and purchase a ticket for me. Of course not.
    No problem. I had other plans and I am on a hiatus from him anyway…..meanwhile, I get a tet from an old CD who is totally masculine…saying:
    Hey, I want to go to the game with you, not sure whether there are any tickets still available, but let’s go for the drive and if not we do somethin else.
    Unfortunately by then I already had plans with a gf..but weeeeeee! So funny!! So much of a difference:
    I want to be with YOU and the details do not matter to me.

    This is what I want in a man. He is not for me for many reasons, but I was so pleased to be shown how it is supposed to be.
    And then I receive a text, a pic from the stadium saying ‘tailgating’ – no ‘I miss you’ nothing.
    So I replied: oh I just got invited to the game too…

    Lmao. I got a couple of texts, like ‘have fun with him’…I did not reply. I am sitting home with my gf and enjoying this unsiren-ness tremendously.

  136.  #136Teresa on November 14, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    I have been gone for awhile. My father passed away 3 weeks ago and I am still trying to get through each day. There has been so much going on in the last several months I don’t even know where to begin.

    I am physically and mentally drained. πŸ™

  137.  #137Teresa on November 15, 2014 at 10:48 am

    When do you say enough is enough? How do you know when you can no longer take it? When do you decide to throw in the towel and move on? How do you know….when will it happen? Peace, that is all I am looking for. My head not to spin….my heart to stop pounding…..the tears will stop falling? My life is in such turmoil.

  138.  #138Millie on November 17, 2014 at 2:09 am

    Andrea– I hear you on being turned off and angered by the neediness of some men and also the frustration of things being centered around them. The pof guy that i did not meet, sent me texts after I cancelled saying “Whiskey is no fun alone” and “eating is no fun alone.” I felt so annoyed I didn’t reply. If I can be blunt here…what bothers me about that is that I feel like I am seen as a solution to his problems. He is bored and he is lonely. I feel like this has nothing to do with me. It could be any girl. It also bothers me because I want want I want to be taken into account. I had told him I was starving, and he made no effort to remedy that, instead asked ME to join him. I feel like, in scenarios like this, the man is not masculine, he is feminine and seeking to receive from a woman while also acting like a baby in need of attention. It feels draining. Texts like that suck energy from me. The next day he texts again, I do not answer. Hours go by and he texts again “sorry?” I told him for the second time that I had a very busy day and was riding all morning. He responds “and you didn’t invite me?”
    Again I ignored it. Since when it is my job to invite a man into my life who I haven’t met and who hasn’t taken me on a real date? Since when do I owe him anything? sorry you need entertainment, go find it yourself! Ugh…I didn’t use “I feel turned off” because I don’t want to continue talking to him.

    Kim–It’s so interesting how different man handle and respond to different situations isn’t it! Man A seems to be thinking only of himself, where Man B wanted to spend time with you in any setting. I totally understand wanting a masculine man who steps up and takes care of things, and has ideas beyond what other give him.

    So there is a guy in my life trying hard to get me…but unfortunately I am NOT attracted to him and the thought of kissing him, much less sleeping with him repulses me. However, he is giving me gifts and trying to take me out to the movies and to Disneyland, offering to buy me a pass. I don’t feel right accepting because I don’t authentically WANT to spend time with him. It’s great he is so masculine in the sense of doing and taking care of me, but I also feel a needy vibe from him, like even though I was clear that I don’t have feelings for him beyond friendship, he is still trying to change my mind. He says he is determined to. That actually does not make me feel honored at all. And I wonder why he does not just ask me what I am looking for in a man? My feelings seem disregarded and I don’t feel like my desires are even important. If he asked me, what kind of man are you looking for? And listened…that would be different. Instead he only sees me as something he wants, but what about what I want?

  139.  #139Azure Blu on November 17, 2014 at 2:59 am

    Peace and gentle comfort to you….
    Grief is a taskmaster which requires us to take much loving care of US…
    time and grief counseling I have found help MUCH…
    I don’t know if you have a hospice center near you…
    I attended group grief classes (once a week for a month or two) which were VERY comforting…

  140.  #140Kristi Kay on November 30, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Best decision I ever made. πŸ™‚

  141.  #141Mandy on December 14, 2014 at 3:32 pm


    I can totally understand why you would not put up with a man who would snarl at you for anything like that.

    With J, he doesn’t snarl so much as show passion for being my special guy…he knows he is want-worthy, he knows he is a good man and perhaps he wonders why I am charmed by a male friend as opposed to him, which almost makes perfect sense to me…the reason why he didn’t creep me out when we first met is because he wasn’t drooling over me like a dog – he has self-respect – but mostly he was good looking but he kept it inside. He knows he’s hot. That’s why I wonder sometimes when I don’t get sex, I think, I’m attractive what the hell, so I can almost perfectly understand this behavior, now that I say I out loud πŸ™‚

    Alas, he is a cutie.