Befriending And Helping A Man Will Get You Gratitude — But Not Love

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plantinhandHere’s a quick question-and-answer:

“Rori, I have read your “Have the Relationship You Want” book and it is ingrained in my thoughts when evaluating what to do to resolve issues with my relationship, however, I need help with this one…

I have a man who has some emotional issues that he’s told me and is having a tough time coping with all the stresses in his life at this time. I have leaned way back even withdrew for quite some time but it seems he is reaching out to me for some help emotionally and physically, we spoke about him moving in because he is going through some deep depression and despair. Some caused by me, some self induced through life situations.

Without going too much into detail, I believe I need to be a friend but not get too emotionally tied to into the result of me helping but I truly believe in this man and our relationship in the long term. I am not sure if leaning back and letting him step up is what will happen here since he has admittedly at a very weak time in his life and when I tried that he fell deeper into his own despair and seclusion.

I have faith in helping him and I will do it in a way that keeps my boundaries in place. Do I just stay back where there is little hope or do I help him but possibly overfunction. Thanks in advance, Shirley”

And here’s my answer:

Shirley –
Basically,  a man will never fall in love with a woman who “comes to his aid.”

A woman who “helps” is not seen as a romantic figure. He will stick with you until you see him through, and then dump you when he’s feeling better.

I’ve seen this over and over again.

You cannot be a man’s therapist – even if you’re married to him. He needs professional help, medication – Western or alternative, exercise – he has to help himself.

If all you want with him is friendship – I don’t think it’s a good use of your energy if what you’re looking for in life is a real partner…still – a friend is a witness. A person who doesn’t let another person go downhill by standing firm that they believe in the person sliding down. The person STILL has to do the work for him or herself.

It’s not possible to have any kind of “relationship” with a man in this situation. Please don’t try. Please Circular Date and fulfill your own life.

Okay, I know this sounds harsh.  And yet, this is what I’ve seen:

I’ve seen a “good woman” save her man. He was a Vietnam helicopter pilot veteran with serious emotional problems and drinking problems.  I knew him because I’d loved him before she met him…only I didn’t have the skills she had, and I didn’t love him as much as she did.

She didn’t save him by understanding and making excuses and letting him skate by on his charm and looks and sexiness and ignoring the rest — like all the other women before her, including me, had done.

She put her foot down!  She didn’t beg him or convince him or do those things that AA and Alanon KNOW don’t work with a person in trouble.  She just, when she realized how troubled he was…both loved him more than any woman ever had, respected him more than any woman had ever had, and had stronger boundaries than any other woman had ever had.

She cared more about him than he’d ever experienced – and yet she cared more about HERSELF than she did about him.

It was such a powerful combination, he cleaned up, got help and has been a stand-up, married man ever since.

The nightmares haven’t gone away…but his craziness and drinking have.  She still can’t follow him into his personal hell when it shows up for him, but she can be there when he’s ready to come out.  And.. she’s never just standing there waiting…he has to step out of his cave like any man and FIND her.

Even with this great story…this man, even with all his problems, was not in despair and depression and darkness most of the time.  He was highly functioning and happy much of the time.  He had ambitions and talent as an actor.  He never “crawled” to this great woman asking for help…he acted like a masculine-energy man who WANTED to be healthy, until she got close enough to see what was going on underneath the surface.

But Shirley’s man is not in that place.  He IS crawling toward her.  This is very, very different.  And yet, there’s always the possibility that he could finally get himself help and change his life, right in front of her eyes.

Only, like the “good” woman of my story…she has to love herself more than she loves him.  She has to RESPECT him enough to trust that he will get the help he needs.  she has to treat him the way she would any other man.

And Shirley, you have to SPEAK this to him.  You have to say…I care for you, I would love to be with you, and I’m not comfortable being your friend or helpmate.  I trust you and respect you to get the help you need, so that we can have a relationship that’s in a good place when you’re ready…”

Let me know if this helps you see men in a slightly different way.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Tracy on October 17, 2009 at 1:52 am

    wow…..first comment!….its been a while….
    Post totally on spot….
    I have had three past relationships with the same pattern for me…we start out as becomes more then i start to rescue and help and the guy leaves……
    The last one i finally decided i was tired and told him i couldn’t be his friend anymore….i cut all ties and honestly i feel really bad and a part of me struggles to keep up and i feel scared because i haven’t done this before…
    I feel interested that i can now see how i created the same pattern with all my past relationship and how they led to the same end…..
    Honestly i haven’t learned all there is about not being a friend but instead being a girlfriend….but i feel glad that i am learning to love myself more…
    Letting go has helped me feel the freedom of making choices as far as my own relationships are concerned…
    I still feel the love and affection and there are days i want to pick up the phone and call….i feel all that doubt and fear of the eventual outcome……but i know that this is all about me…and i am learning to trust myself more and love myself more….its only been a few months but i feel that i am learning to creating the type of relationship that will truly make me happy…
    The last time i was called friend is when i realized that whatever i was doing was giving me a complete opposite reaction to what i wanted…and i felt really bad about…i felt angry…i promised myself i would not be called friend again unless that was what i really wanted from the relationship….
    I feel that circular dating has helped me go through this more easily….i am working on it baby steps and i feel its working…..i am getting there..

  2.  #2Soignée on October 17, 2009 at 1:53 am

    I dated a man with some difficult issues. He was very open with me telling about his problems. I got attached to him because I started to know hit at a deep level, it was a strong connection between us. I listened to him, listened and listened. Before, I was a happy young woman making circular dating and enjoying my time. After knowing him, I got attached to him, but his stories made me feel sad. I remember waking up and not enjoying the day anymore. I lost joie-de-vivre. But I was deeply connected to him. So my love for him started. I was sometimes sad and I was always afraid, that nothing could happen to him. I lived in love, care and fear for him. I got more and more involved, he got my second part, I spent my free time only with him. The most amazing thing was that my love for him was based on compassion. He was like hypnose for me. I took so much care for him. I mixed love with care. But I was pretty drain, got pessimistic. He was “nurtured” by my good energy, but I got void. I cried a lot, also for him. But in some way I could not stop all this staff. I loved him more than every other man in my life knowing his weak sides, vulnerability although he is a tough man with a very masculine energy for the whole world, and seems very strong. And I took so much care for him, he pulled out of me all the “nurturing” qualities, I bought him presents, I made him coffee, I wanted to go out only with him. I was focused on him, but I felt his deep love for me. But I think it was not enough.

    But in my life, I got hysteric sometimes, I cried, I got blue and sad, I lived in fear. I was like under hypnose, like charmed by some strong being and I got lost, I could not live without him.
    I am happy that his ex came back(they split before I knew him much time earlier), with his child and he was confused. So my aid, my help, my assistance, my love did not help. He did not want to stop having me, made plans for me, but he accepted the idea living with his child. And his ex wife. He wanted to care of his child. What I understand. Our story started when everything between him and his woman ended definitely. But it seemed that it ended. So I broke the relationship and went away.I was some kind of assistance, “red cross” for him after his break-up with his woman. he told me about the child,but he accepted living with the child’s mother. I felt he lied me before. He needed me for not being alone. And the confirmation followed. If he loved me he would not abandon me like I did not exist. After our break-up, I needed some help from him, this help he gave to other people. But for me, he did nothing.

    I got lost, I was in pieces, my heart was broken. I did not trust any other man, I did not want sex, I did not want someone to touch me, it lasted for months. I felt so much pain in my heart. I thought I could not survive. But I did. I lost the dating skills I was brilliant at before meeting him.
    Yes, I helped him but my experience showed me that I have to avoid the difficult men. Because I am sensitive enough to be sucked with all the draining and bad and sad energy. They make me really involved in their issues.
    But I changed. Time was my friend and the urge of survive, I thank God that I stopped all this stuff.

    I do not want to be the psychotherapist of anyone else. I am not strong enough for it. I do not want to listen to the other’s difficult issues where I can not help.
    I take more care of myself. When men start telling me about their problems, I try to avoid these topics, I change them. I am attracted to people with smily faces, positive people with an optimistic point of views. Everybody has own problems, but it is up to us to try to see them a little bit lighter.

    After this hard relationship and harder break-up, after so much time, I started to live.

    I tried to smile, I tried to focuse on my job. I tried to read uplifting books, I tried to go out. I had a wonderful job, my girl dream, I saw so many kindnesses God, or Universe or my Angels or my soul showed me.

    I found the kindness everywhere. In some way I was taken care of. I am light, I am positive. And after all, I wanted to go out, I wanted sex, I gave up the closure.

    So I started to live.

  3.  #3heartbeat on October 17, 2009 at 2:06 am

    Soignée I’m sending up a big cheer for you! That feels like a story of immense passion and courage.

  4.  #4Soignée on October 17, 2009 at 2:55 am

    Thank you so much Heartbeat!!! A great hug for you!!!

    I think that this man is a lucky one, because he was so deeply loved. It was a true passion, maybe like some movie because he is not a common person. He has in his heart so much love, but cruelty also, he comes from a large family, grew up in very poor conditions, got extremely rich, lost everything, rebuilt himself step-by-step. He is an extremely good lover, he can be a bad boy, but he can be the sweetest heart you can imagine. I think this person can make people fall in love with him, and poor women he crosses their road, because he is extremely charismatic. I have never seen before a man with such a generosity. I remember some time some people coming to us embracing him, kissing him, offering him dinners etc. These were the people who worked for him in some of his companies. I was really impressed.
    He has a strange sense of vulnerability and sensitivity. He could feel me, he could tell in advance how things would be going. He could “read” me. But this strong man, he could be like a boy when I told him off, he told I was right. He could do what I told to do, but not because he did not want to answer me, but because he was was attracted and he made me feel wonderful. He was attracted of my femininity and vulnerability (that’s what I completely agree with Rori,always to show the feelings, this vulnerability I showed him) and manners and sophistication. I could never imagine before I can sleep hours 8 and more in arms of a man like I did, always. Neither him. I felt completely protected.
    And the most strange thing was when I once went out with friends, but I had in my head the picture of him, like he was there. Like his own presence. I was shocked.

    And I know he misses me, he called me with some idiot excuses some time ago when I completely forgot about him and the story. i know he will remember me for long, I do not know how I know it but I feel to know it. the strange thing I thought I could not recover, but I did. Me too, I am a really lucky person when I can enjoy the life after such a trauma for me. I think that it does not matter how much time you are in relationship with someone, but how deep. And I wish me not to love so strong like I did with him. After the break-up I completely lost trust in people, I was internally dead.

    But someone saved me and I started to live. On another level. In different way. I really enjoy my life. I could not imagine.

    I do not know, but I hope so much that God seeing me how I loved this man, would send me another great love, in another way. Also much passion. But a healthy passion. Where I can be a Goddess, and a happy woman.

    Dear Heartbeat, I really wish you and other women on the site to be happy, and a great passion for you, for love and for life!!!! To be adored and loved, every day of life!!

  5.  #5Soignée on October 17, 2009 at 3:38 am

    And I wanted to add something very important.
    When I wanted to live and hope after this break-up, I have to thank Rori.
    As I read everything on her site, I understood every my mistake I made with men. I did not know so many things.
    So being aware of these mistakes did not make me sad. But it GAVE ME HOPE. Because I realized when I maybe change my approach with men, I will have a different result.

    So recognizing mistakes can bring hope for a better future.

  6.  #6Katja on October 17, 2009 at 4:28 am

    Soignèe,thats a wonderful story. It made me cry as I can relate to what you wrote. All the best to you – and I am sure that you will find the true love you are hoping for.

    Much much love to you – what you wrote really touched my heart.

    And Heartbeat – nice to “read” you 🙂 I haven’t been here that much in the past months,I am still going through a tough time but there is hope.

    And btw this post is wonderful,Rori. I can relate to this so much and it really helps me to focus on what to do and to understand the mistakes I made in the past.

    Thank you!

  7.  #7Flipper on October 17, 2009 at 4:28 am

    This may seem odd, but it’s Rori’s explanations of how the ‘typically good’, kind, helping, stick-with-him thru hell woman Doesn’t get her man (but someone else Will) that helped me finally understand where the parabol of the Prodigal Son came from. Substitute the ‘good’, responsible, stay-at-home brother in the Bible for nurturing woman. Even so, I still feel resentment about spurned women and the unappreciated son that deserved the opposite of what they got, but I feel better about accepting these things. This just Is What Is. The ones who get what they want are the ones who Are who they Are, including flaws and even unworthiness, and who share that and their joyfulness. Even their ‘victims’ accept this from such wayward loved ones despite their own suffering. Seems like all’s fair in love – except fairness and nice. Grrrrrr. What is, IS. And I AM, TOO.

    I was definitely the overfunctioning nurturer that didn’t get anything I wanted back. My spontaneous ‘leaning back’ turned out to be shutting down. I wouldn’t feel my anger, with one or two rare exceptions regarding stuff I couldn’t accept towards the kids.

    I’m being taken to a fancy place tonight I asked to be treated to – 15 years ago! Then, it was refused and no alternative was proposed to make up for it. I felt bad (expressed somewhat at the time, not effectually and I just wound up stuffing it though of course it festered). I feel like I died of thirst, and now the flowers on my tomb are being watered copiously. I feel this would sound blaming if I say that. I feel afraid there would be collateral damage, to myself and in my family if I say that. I feel I want to look forward now, but I don’t want to use that as an excuse to avoid this painful feeling now by not saying anything. I have some time to find better words.

  8.  #8Paula on October 17, 2009 at 6:58 am

    I find Roris words so revolutionary and this concept of the ‘good woman’ not gettting the man and not getting love is the most revolutionary of all to me. It sucks but it’s true.

    I’ve always been the ‘good woman’, over-nurturing, taking care of HIS needs, listening, trying to help his relationship with his kids or his ex. So, I want to stop it all. I just feel resentful and angry in the end because I am not loved or appreciated. I hope I can do it.

    I’m trying baby steps with men I’m circular dating – internet contacts and an old ex. It feels so strange to say I feel and not I think. I don’t really respond when they talk about their problems or feelings. I hope I’m doing it right.

    Thank you Soignée. You are indeed soignée….

  9.  #9Tina on October 17, 2009 at 7:45 am

    This post feels strangely familiar. My brain feels stressed out, I feel turned off. I feel men naturally tell me their “problems.” Then ask, “why am I tellling you all this?” I suppose it doesnt help when I am feeling curious and ask leading questions either. Free sex and counselling all rolled into one wow! who would leave? well not right now it feels so good and comforting lol. The “safe harbor” doesnt mean this, safe until I get my feet under me and oh by the way I feel grateful for all your help, that is as much as your going to get, I really do appreciate it though.

    I remember yelling at one point at my ex husband, I AM NOT A MARRIAGE COUNCELLOR FOR YOU AND YOUR FCKING EX DAMNIT! then adding in a furious feeling tone, YOU TWO WOULD BE BACK TOGETHER LIVING HAPPILY EVER AFTER IF I KEEP THIS UP,IM GETTING THE FCK OUT OF HERE, I CAN’T HANDLE THIS SHIT. We’ve since seperated , he did leave me a message on my messenger wishing me a Happy Birthday though. Did I see him come crawling from a mile away, I can’t answer that. I do remember him looking like a wet lost puppy. Our relationship ended very badly.

    11/2 year guy the same thing, not identical but the same type. He also came driving around my house on my birthday lol. Thanks guys! at least they remembered my Bday!. hahaha. A male friend of mine also remembered my birthday, he brought cake and stuff. I get the same “vibe” from him as well (no free sex included though.) I’ve since stopped doing that lol. I remember very clearly the day he came over and sat on my couch and I in my big desk chair, him telling me details of his first marriage. Actually, as I am typing they were all pretty much that way lol. Rori is right, it is not a good use of our energies. DONT DO IT , DONT DO IT. Love for ourselves is greater and much more rewarding.

  10.  #10Linda on October 17, 2009 at 8:58 am

    This post is awesome Rori!… I can’t agree more. I am a giver and a solver by nature. I must be a great at it because it seems that every man I meet up with pours out his muck at my feet.

    My last relationship (if you want to call it that) has again done a deeper work of refining me. I wish this post had showed up here about March of this year it would have saved me some personal pain and frustration but I would have forfieted the experience and new growth in my life if it had.

    The last man I cared for was in a really down place in life. I was there for him… but would only go so far. In the end, I ultimately knew that if I was going to be able to have a relationship with him, he was going to have to crawl out of his own circumstances, get his feet under him and learn to believe in himself again. He is doing that for himself now. Will he ever step up and claim me ? I dont know. If he does I will assess whether he is enough for me, even though I love him.

    I fully understand and feel like a fuller new improved model of a woman. One who understands how to love a man and not loose herself in the process now. I feel wise because I am see I am like the the woman you described who’s love healed and restored her man. I messed up a bit along the way but…. Trial and error pain and tears are a part of improvement.

    I feel ready for my prize and the fruit of my labors, a man whos heart is ready to love the woman that I am.


  11.  #11heartbeat on October 17, 2009 at 9:35 am

    Hugs, Katja – I was thinking about you today xxxx

  12.  #12Aminata on October 17, 2009 at 9:41 am

    This post could not have come at a better time for me. I feel like it encourages me at the right time.

    Like you Linda, I am a problem solver by nature- that was always my role in the family, even though to often I was ignored when I played that role. I’ve learned the hard way to be a problem solver for just myself. Learning that has taken me a long way.

    There was a guy I was “nurturing” sometimes. Sometimes I leaned back and things were good. Right before he went on a trip, I was “helping” him and I didn’t like the way it felt. I takes me a long time to sort out my feelings (I finally accepted that about myself. It used to feel so frustrating to not articulate my feelings immediately!). Also I need to be completely alone when I do it, so it took me a couple of weeks after he left for me to sort everything out. I told him feel I must open options to find someone who is serious about me. He asked if we could be “friends.” I told him to write me in the spring or summer so I could see how I felt then. But not before then.

    He wrote me back two weeks later. I felt like he was imposing his need for a helper on me, so I wrote him back saying I felt my need for space had been disrespected among other things.

    I felt like I had to put my foot down, not to get the guy back or manipulate him, but to maintain my boundaries and not stuff down my anger anymore. I care about the guy and I feel like he can do better than what he has been doing because he is very talented.

    At the same time I know it’s not my responsibility to see him through his current tribulation abroad. I don’t feel like holding his hand via internet. I have a lot of things to take care of for myself- grad school applications, 2 books coming out, finding another job, getting enough money so I can travel to complete a book. I feel like I need someone who will care for ME right now. I feel the need for comfort. I don’t know if it was the right thing to do in this case. All I know is I feel better, less angry now.

    It is scary to put your foot down. It totally goes against the feeling a woman has to hold on to her man and put up with a lot of crud and bad feelings to keep him. But now I know someone else did it and kept herself along with her man, I feel like there is hope for me and my future relationships.

  13.  #13janjune on October 17, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    i feel eye-opening with this post.

    this is the type of situation i was about to get myself into by going back with my old bf, the one who has always been with me on my horse, the ‘love of my life’.

    we started seeing each other again last summer. he had major problems going on. major. business, personal, it was getting to him i felt,…no i know.
    but i had my problems going on too and fortunately was so overlaoded with my own stuff at the time that i knew i couldn’t take on any more or believe me, i would have tried.
    and i told him that… that i wasn’t in a position to provide anything besides the relief of us both knowing someone in the world really cared for them.
    or we could get married and take on both of our problems as a couple who were committed to EACH OTHER and handle our problems together.

    he petered out.

    Thank you God for saving me from that pain and waste of time and the sorrow that goes with that.

    but his decision to decline was what led me to be so desperately hurt and empty to feel that i HAD to find an answer. i KNEW my love for him was real. and i had always loved him and had always wanted to be with him, but knew he needed to want to be with me too, for ME not for what he was getting. so i just didn’t understand how we could be so far apart on this,\. it made absolutely no sense at all.
    i read everything on line and finally settled on rori.
    the reason i chose rori was because i “felt” 🙂 like she was the one who could really help—
    at the time the relationship coaches all sounded like they were saying the same thing.

    i had no way of knowing the depth of the solution i was going to find. i had no way of imagining the straightforward, beautiful, comprehensive, perception-altering, healing, true-to-this-life, Life-CHANGING information i was about to receive. and i’ve just begun.

    thanku goddess Rori from the bottom of my heart.


  14.  #14Tina on October 17, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Janjun, I feel the same way to about Rori’s coaching techniques. Awesome, finally for once in my life, I feel it’s OK to be me and feel. The icky feelings is where I receive most of my healing, the feel good moments are great too 🙂 When my mind and heart are closed down I feel unteachable and there is not much anything anybody says that can reach me. I have to learn tolerance , we are all at our own unique place in our love lives and relationships, our learning is always ongoing. Cool stuff!
    I did some feeling messages with my 16 yr. old son yesterday. I didn’t know how else to handle the situation with him. It had to do with my white athletic socks and him not doing his laundry then more stuff came up. Rough day at school poor kid and I was looking for my socks to work out, I found the socks , I felt pissed off, he was hurt and angry over something that happened at school. It all worked out in the end. He made amends with his friend from school and I now will have clean socks in the future.

  15.  #15Heather on October 17, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    just as in relationships with men, i have seen this same thing in office/work relationships… situations where the people “in charge” rely upon their subordinates for almost everything. AND they sometimes do not even care about the job, the place, the environment and what happens to the people. Where the “worker-bees” do SO much stuff to make the boss look good … and it’s often gone unappreciated. And when they get promoted … the workers are often left behind.

    that analogy came up for me while reading through this blog posting. And I also find it to be true – “caretaking” of another adult is not the ticket. it throws everything off balance!

  16.  #16janjune on October 17, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    “The icky feelings is where I receive most of my healing,”

    …interesting insight Gina.


  17.  #17alias girl on October 17, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    i am on a date with a good man. argh.

    trying to curb my domineering, take chargeness. i am so used to being alone and being a boy.

    i am practicing being a girl. argh.

  18.  #18janjune on October 17, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    ” “caretaking” of another adult is not the ticket.”

    …that strikes at the core.

    i’m making that one of the tenets of my new life perspective.

  19.  #19janjune on October 17, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    alias girl-

    lean back


    don’t help

    enjoy a wonderful date!!


  20.  #20Ann on October 17, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Have fun AG.

  21.  #21gina on October 17, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    yay!!!! I’m so glad I read this. I don’t need to worry bout a THING. MmmmMmmmmMmmm it feels good to be alive!!

  22.  #22alias girl on October 18, 2009 at 12:51 am

    thank you for the well wishes ann and janjune. i feel very supported and that feels really really good. 🙂

    the date was so RIGHT in so many ways. and at the end he kissed me. and he tastes and smells so wrong. not bad. just wrong.

    maybe i will share more about the date later because itt was really good. but the kiss felt Oh So Wrong. kind of a crucial aspect for me. i don’t want a man i don’t want to kiss. non negotiable. i want a man i feel good kissing.

    i feel confused. and like i want to make this guy the guy. my guy. and maybe he just isn’t. i know i’m not supposed to do that with circular dating anyway but i do it anyway. i always think, ‘is it him?’

    i feel a sigh. but i also feel uplifted by a good date.

  23.  #23Daria on October 18, 2009 at 1:31 am

    I just had my FIRST tutoring session as DS Academics!

    My client is wonderful!! Shes motivated and bright and so easy to work with!


    Thank you Angels!

    Her mom has ALREADY posted a wonderful comment about finding ME as a tutor on Facebook.


  24.  #24Flipper on October 18, 2009 at 2:12 am

    Great, Daria – I feel excited for you !

    Alias Girl – I remember that happening to me a couple of times (good guy, ‘wierd’ smell or taste), and then after a couple more encounters it wasn’t like that at all – things became quite yummy, in fact. I wondered, wha ? was that my imagination? did the guy change his diet? Maybe when someone is new, we need an ‘assimilation period’. Like when you first eat something totally unknown – for me, it’s like a blank I can barely taste and can’t describe . I also read that when a potential mate is completely different biologically from us (over and above just being male, of course, duh) that’s a good sign. (Kinda opposite of when women are on the pill, they’re more attracted to men like themselves, and when they go off it, their attraction can lessen or disappear, cuz our natural hormones steer us towards difference.)

    Anyway, Yae for the great date that was and the many more to come.

  25.  #25Tracy on October 18, 2009 at 7:36 am

    I feel really happy for you….
    I feel inspired about starting my own thing….still coming up with the basics….I feel really hopeful…thanks for sharing…

  26.  #26Aminata on October 18, 2009 at 8:22 am


    your analogy about worker bees is dead on. I’m going to keep that image in mind whenever I want to overfunction.

  27.  #27nikita on October 18, 2009 at 10:04 am

    alias girl,

    i braved a wrong kiss….I felt ugh what a little soft kiss…that doesn’t feel like me. So I sent the wrong kisser back to his pond….then after months he got a second chance with me…his kisses felt a little better but still not right….I braved on….so 10 months after the first meeting I feel like sexploration….I tell myself: nikita, he is nice and you feel safe and desired and respected so if we are going to do anything frisky it will be this frog…..well…..this wrong kisser….made my body sing song in ways that they haven’t since my first boyfriend….wow….I felt stunned….
    So I explored some more 🙂

    On the other hand my ex is the absolute most perfect right kisser ever! But he never stepped up 🙁
    So I feel very confused because he’s the right kisser…!
    White lightening through my tongue to my tummy and back through my toes. He feels it too but alas we are apart.

    xx nikita

  28.  #28Linda on October 18, 2009 at 10:28 am

    I am remembering all the first kisses I have had with my dates. Some were UGh!!! some were great. The worst was when I felt like he was trying to chew meat off of a steak bone! LOL the makes me laugh and feel icky all at once. One was tooo soft but sweet, one was like a friend peck and a couple of others made me want more!

    In the end, I am with none of them.

    I was thinking about something tinque(I think) said to me a couple of posts ago…. Sometimes the one for us doesnt feel or appear like they are at first but through experience and growing… they are just right, just as they are.

    I will have to say that I feel hopeful about that. Time does reveal things. The condition of our hearts are key to it as well as experience and time.

    I was awake most the night last night. I could not sleep. I was thinking about all kinds of stuff, my shoulder hurt too. I was thinking about Mr Scrutiny some too. I still wonder why he would send me the email.

    As I lay there I realized that I had put pressure on myself and the relationship in a spiritual way that had created such a despariging place in my heart and spirit. Once I realized that I want to love and be loved just like God does with our own free will, I felt lighter. It frees me up to understand that we can respond to the stirrings of our heart and spirit and it does not have to be “right ” all the time.

    So true to form for me, I wrote him an email. I dont know if he will respond. It is kinda like the question I asked the man I was recently seeing. I just want to know, only I love Mr Scrutiny. Either way, response or no response, I will get an answer. Ask now receive not. My dad always said there was never a dumb question it was the attitude of the one answering that was in question!…

    Hugs Linda

  29.  #29Linda on October 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Ask not receive not… is what I meant to type.

    I just came in from mowing. A heavy thinking time for me. Through the hum of the mower, my mind wanders and wonders.

    I was exploring my thoughts about loving of our own free will and not based on duty or feeling obligated. I realized the depth of pressure I put on myself to get this last relationship right. I prayed, read, blogged, prayed some more. The more things became difficult the harder I prayed and though. It all became too much and I became inwardly more unwilling to accept no for an answer. I never said that to him but in my prayer time it was as if I began to feel desperate. I finally let go and felt like a failure. It was like I left us no options in my mind. However I had gotten the plan it was right and that is what I was looking to happen. I can see now, even though it was never brought up…. that he could have not felt free to love or…feel overwhelmed that there was a unspoken standard and expectation that he could not get to.

    I feel really sad and sorry about this today. Whether this came into play in this relationship or not, I dont know. I have learned something very valuable. Even in a high form, manipulation is manipulation. Yikes!

    I want to be like to woman talks about in this post. The one who doesnt get lost and stays on task with her life. Lets the man take care of himself and lets him find her when he comes out of his cave. I dont want to be controlling either one way or the other. I want to be loved and love because it is a choice.

    Loving this man, felt right even though the relationship was filled with self imposed road blocks by him I just made it harder on myself and ultimately him to just relax and have fun if he was going to do that…. I cant take responsibility for his baggage but I can learn from this not repeat the behavior. What a subtle thing something that is good can create right under your nose and not even realize it.

    I am not sure this will make sense to anyone but my heart gets it. I am thankful that I see it and how it operated in the background making me miserable at times


  30.  #30janjune on October 18, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    i feel full circle.

    followed Gina’s link from the last post last night. just started blog hopping from there. there is so much game going on it makes me sick/mad.

    one guy was advising to find an ugly girl to practice on so you’ll be up to speed for the hottie or the one you really want. said to treat her just like you would if she was the one you really want to get in the practice.
    he advised that the ugly girl will be the better for it, too. …earrrrrrrrrrrp excuse me

    one guy said you want to use texting for the women you don’t want to talk to.
    but want to keep hanging on.

    this was really interesting to me:
    one guy told how bad he felt because he had to let the woman of his dreams go because he couldn’t handle her strong feminine essence
    (or feminine something– like her feminine energy).
    said it damn near broke his heart.
    HE *KNEW* HE COULDN’T STEP UP for her!!
    Oh geez.
    So he LEFT.
    He couldn’t take it couldn’t handle her.
    Men KNOW when they can’t step up.

    I am SOOOOO getting some pieces of Rori’s message now that i hadn’t really understood before.

    lean back
    see what they’re offering
    let them do the *work*
    if they want you and know they can handle your feminine energy, they will do the work, want to do the work, ENJOY doing the work, won’t want help, it will be *their* PLEASURE!!!

    i now get that’s why rori is saying a woman doesn’t have to do ANYthing. i still feel like i have to because most of the men i’m going to meet aren’t going to feel that way about me, circular dating men for instance. they’re going to want something (my words, not rori’s), have an agenda of some sort (my words, not rori’s).

    so i just have to BE.
    open my heart to a man if i feel interest.
    let him feel it measure it determine whether he has what it takes to step up……or *NOT*.
    i see *NOT* is okay, too.
    even if he’s attracted for awhile and *I’m* interested/attracted in him.
    him leaving just means he either has a different agenda or he can’t step up.
    dont waste my time.
    dont waste my life.
    either he’s *there* with me or he’s not.
    only he knows.
    only he knows why.

    that’s how my old bf was. just not *there.* i don’t know why. he just wasn’t. either time. i know he liked me, loved me, saw the good things in me, saw the advantages being with me and me with him would provide, but he just couldn’t get himself to *there* and he told me ….after i pressed him.
    he would have *used up my stuff * (time, energy, love, talent, skills). if i hadn’t pressed the issue. i now know i would not have gotten it out of him on his own. like rori says, they’ll take everything you have to give, take it all,…but they won’t love you more for it.
    he was all about moving me in and us working on his business together…. uh, i don’t think so buddy… i don’t care how much i loved him or how much it hurt to realize the man wasn’t there, …. he just WASN’T.

    i see that as a good thing now…but omg how PAINFUL. emotional pain is just as devastating as physical pain to me.

    i so get these parts of rori’s message right now.
    i am a little afraid this understanding isn’t anchored and i won’t have it tomorrow. i want the understanding of this to be part of my life, my beingness.

    love, goddess janjune

  31.  #31janjune on October 18, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    okay, correction….

    i know he *ACTED* AS IF HE LOVED ME….


  32.  #32janjune on October 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm


    he didn’t act like he loved me, i took his actions to be love because i loved him.

    he loved being with me
    he loved what i could do for him
    he loved the way i made him feel
    he loved the way i loved him but he didn’t love me.

    he liked me.

    no more than that. either time.


  33.  #33Linda on October 18, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    I understand Janjune. I felt this too with the last man. He just could not step up and bowed out. He pops his head in my life but he cant stay. Part of it the reason I have talking about today. I set a standard up that he felt unable to meet. That was bad of me, not required really. But the rest, was all about his inability to maintain. He liked me, liked what I did, how he felt with me but did not love me.

    Maybe he will step up who knows. My revelation of being pushy was shocking to me today. I feel grieved about that but it is a mistake I will try my best to not make again. There were more issues about him than about me, If you put them on a scale he tipped them over.

    There is more wisdom to letting a man fix his problems himself than meets the eye initially. I see more and more every day.


  34.  #34alias girl on October 18, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    tracy i feel so good to read your journey. thank you for sharing. 🙂

    Soignée thank you for sharing your story. i believe you will be sent a good good man who loves and adores you immensely.


    this post of rori’s feels so important. in the past i used to want to “help” men. even my EX (not my ex) who is a really capable manly man—-i found ways i thought he needed my “help”. and he called me on it. and i backed off. but i can see how i would become ‘mommie’ with that and the attraction would be out the window.

    also i did it because it was easier to focus on someone else rather than my own life which needed quite a bit of “help” but i was neglecting myself. also i did it because then i could feel i was “earning” love or making a niche for myself in the man’s life or whatever reasons. i can see them now and they are not the way of the goddess.


    now i focus on ME and what would make Me HAPPY and i focus on how welll the man is at being a man. works out Much better for me this way.

    but i read this post twice and both times it brought tears to my eyes because i could feel my old ways and how badly i wanted to be loved/appreciated/needed/paid attention to etc. and how strong that urge used to be and how misguided i was.

    also i have experienced men who wanted to make me their “project” with their “help”. they want to cast me in some sort of weak or victim role so they can swoop in and rescue me. it feels awful. it feels condenpendent and manipulative and degrading to my goddessness. i feel Immediately repelled by that kind of energy.


    katya i feel supportive. i feel like wrapping you in a big warm safe hug and lettting you knwo that whatever you are feeling is okay. xoxo

    paula yae i feel excited you are baby stepping into circular dating and using i feels. for me they are becoming more natural though i still have to consciously choose to use them. but my i feels make my life so much yummier. (and me so much yummier to a man!!)

    animata my experience has been that men seem to be more attracted to a woman with strong boundaries. (at least a manly, rowing man is more attracted)

    linda i feel good to read your journey of strength and glorious blossoming.

    flipper thank you for sharing your experience with me. i feel great fondness for your mind and your opening up as a goddess and your overflowing energy of caringness for others.

    nikita and linda thank you also for sharing about your “kiss” experiences. reading them all is really helping me come to the decision to give this man another chance. even though i feel blech about the idea of kissing him again. But maybe it will be different. i’ll never know unless i open myself up to another date with him.

    linda again. how lovely. you are lovely. i feel understanding of what you wrote. I understand wanting it to work so badly with particular man.

    janjune. i do not feel concerned about pua’s. nor do i want to read anythign about it. the more genuine i am, the more i know intuitively who is being genuine with me. as a goddess i learn to feel what it feels like to be in the presence of a good good man.

    i need only follow my feelings. because they are magic and true.

  35.  #35alias girl on October 18, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    oh and daria congrats on your first tutoring session!!!! i feel very excited for you!!

  36.  #36nikita on October 18, 2009 at 5:43 pm



  37.  #37Mary Ann on October 18, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Alias Girl…when I first started reading this blog. i think about a year ago…I felt almost scared of your intensity and wasn’t sure how I felt about the blog and what I was reading…I now feel amazed at the wonderful positive energy I feel when I read your are so good to everyone here too..its just awesome. Thanks for sharing yourself.

  38.  #38alias girl on October 18, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    aw thanks maryann. i feel so understood. i feel really really touched. thank you.

    i had a lot of intense feelings i had not been in touch with my whole life. i had hardcore defense systems. only through rori’s tools (and also the support of emily van horn and meeting with her weekly) did i start to let things go and feelings became more flowing.

    but there was some really intense RAGE i had to work through. I am talking INTENSE RAGE and fear.

    and also i had no boundaries coupled with the fact that i just wanted to be liked never make anyone displeased with me (like rori described in the most current post)- really it was all just a recipe for Blech.

    but i feel like i worked through so much and i just feel so grateful. and i really really really want other people to be happy in their lives. i mean, that is an odd driving motivation for me for some reason.

    so i feel so touched that you see something positive in me and my choices in how i choose to spend my energy. thank you very much for your comment. i feel teary.

  39.  #39Aminata on October 18, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    wow alias girl.

    it’s amazing how much pent up rage a person can have. I am going through getting mine out right now. what was the best thing that helped you.

    touching on being pushy and controlling, thanks for sharing your pain Linda. I feel like I am where you are right now, but I feel that circular dating will help me learn how to let men do everything, not some things or half of stuff. it’s scary though…

  40.  #40alias girl on October 19, 2009 at 2:50 am

    aminata. honestly i wish someone had given me some guidelines or some sort of warning because the amount of rage that came up for me actually felt frightening. working with emily van horn helped because she taught me how to resource myslef so i didn’t get too “agitated” or whatever. that was not the point. the point was to allow the enrgy to release from my body.

    but i didn’t actually realize the reasons for her stopping me and going to a resource that calmed me. soooooooo on my own i woulld try and ‘follow my feelings’ wherever they went and it was too much and unhealthy. and then once i did it in public and i felt so rageful (just following my feelings) i swear i could have killed someonem so then i spoke with emily and she explained why she hadme interuppt myself and go to a resource. anyway. after the whole redo (of my childhood trauma)at my job i just sort of felt like a different person. i don’t know how to explain it. i felt like i had stood up for myself (i hadn’t as a child) i felt like i told the truth to whoever would listen (i hadn’t as a child) and i had had support going through the whole experience (i hadn’t as a child)

    also so may of my defense habits had sort of been revealed and dissolved. just alot of good came from a seemingly horrible situation.

    i honestly don’t know what to tell other people other than being in touch with my feelings was life changing and also having the addiotnal support of emily van horn (and this blog!)

  41.  #41Daria on October 19, 2009 at 4:01 am

    i feel defensive reading a few lines of jan junes about the ‘game’ on the guy’s blog

    I feel defensive and judgemental. I Think its a good idea for them to practice on an ‘ugly’ (not as attractive to them) girl. perhaps she will be better for it.

    We after all practice on “not attractive men” when we are circular dating. and i assume they will be better for it too

    perhaps the two people can practice on each other

  42.  #42Tracy on October 19, 2009 at 7:12 am

    Thanks…..Big Hugs!

  43.  #43alias girl on October 19, 2009 at 10:11 am

    tracy, big hug back!!

    thank you, source energy, for bringing me a great income and a feeling of fun and purpose. i feel secure and loved and cared for and grateful.

  44.  #44Debbi on October 19, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Hi I ordered the have the relationship you want and the modern siren
    I find that it mostly addresses single women and I am married with a man who wont be physically affectionate for 2 years now and demands I change before he does anything
    and I am not seeing how it is helping me because he is also traveling for 3-4 weeks every month and then might be home for 3-6 weeks
    He says he wants to invest in this relationship because we have children yet he is unwilling to really do anything I know I need to create something to move him in a direction we have been stuck for 2 years on what he is or isnt willing to do.
    I tried leaning back and not being the first one to hug him and he just thought I was mad at him didnt seem to work well I feel like there is something different for married people then single people.
    Did I order the right programs? Am I missing something?
    Any advice would be helpful

  45.  #45Mercedes on October 19, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Rori: I love this line….

    “I trust you and respect you to get the help you need, so that we can have a relationship that’s in a good place when you’re ready…”

    Much Love,

  46.  #46Rori Raye on October 19, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Debbi – Though all my programs work for any situation you’re in…when you work with the ebook…you’ll get that all my work came out of my own marriage issues…Modern Siren is for EVERYTHING you do! Love, Rori

  47.  #47alias girl on October 19, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    debbie. modern siren is like goddess training 101.

    are you practicing your FEELING messages?

    How do you FEEL?

    one actually needs to Use the tools in order for them to work.

  48.  #48Lisa on October 20, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    Flipper says:

    “‘typically good’, kind, helping, stick-with-him thru hell woman Doesn’t get her man”

    Actually, good women take care of themselves and do get their man, a good man. Rori is right: We can’t heal anyone but ourselves. When we are well and unaddicted, healthy people fill the new void opening up before us. And we get to choose, rather than chase.

    Yeah, Rori!

  49.  #49Kaitlyn on October 20, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    I just got rid of a guy I was casually dating because I feel that my needs and feelings are more important than whatever he is going through. He said, “It’s the drugs isn’t it? I plan on stopping. I need to.” I told him whatever it is, I’m no longer attracted and I need out.

    Drug people never understand that the drugs ARE them.

    Saturday night, I got a group text from him, “hey anyone know where the after parties are?” I didn’t answer, as I never answer group texts. Good riddance.

  50.  #50Paula on October 20, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    I feel distraught. I feel like giving up. I feel bereft. My ex has asked his new woman to marry him. She’s not a ‘good woman’. She has been cheating on her husband for over a year now. I was the ‘good woman’, taking care of him and his daughters, listening, loving, helping. He didn’t love me. He wanted what he could not have.

    I agree that being a good woman is not ‘good’ for me and doesn’t get me love or respect. But it feels such a huge task to change.

    I am trying to take good care of myself and do the Tools and use feeling messages and Lean Back and try to circular date. It feels like such hard work. I have learnt a lot from her and how she values herself but I resist being selfish like her. I should try it.

    I feel despair.

    I feel grateful to be able to share here. Thank you.

  51.  #51Rori Raye on October 20, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Paula, your comment is very powerful. What you describe is so common. A man goes for a prostitute instead of his good wife. He is still hung up on the ex who cheated on him, hurt him, and treated him like trash. We give, we’re good, and we get nothing but the dregs. Try this: Targeting Mr. Right helps you discover your “diva” qualities. Diva is a negative label…but ha so much great stuff for you. So – instead of labeling this woman you are and want to be as “good” or “not good” – look at this as Receiving or NOT Receiving. That’s the missing piece for you. If you can practice receiving, and watch how it makes you feel – guilty, weird, uncomfortable, and get used to it and feel good about it…you’ll see that what a man is looking for is this…the hurt just often came along with the receiving nature of the woman. Love, Rori

  52.  #52Paula on October 21, 2009 at 5:30 am

    I feel really emotional Rori on reading your kindness and care. I feel confused by the last sentence “the hurt just often came along with the receiving nature of the woman”. Is a man looking for a woman who can receive? Yes, I have big problems with receiving. I will practise receiving from anyone and everyone…

    I feel ashamed because I have lost my job due to the economic crisis. I have very little money but I think it is life or death for me to become a diva or a siren. I feel unsure about which program to buy – Targeting Mr Right or Modern Siren. I feel worried that I might make the wrong choice. When I am working again, I can buy all the programs.

    I feel better – more hopeful. Thank you.

    Love Paula

  53.  #53Daria on October 21, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Paula… go for Modern Siren…

    its essential

    and learn about Circulard Dating from here and the e-letters.

    ps I felt much the same way about life and death about getting this going for me

  54.  #54Paula on October 22, 2009 at 2:10 am

    Thanks Daria. I’m going to order it. I feel excited!

  55.  #55Lucy on October 23, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I came to the blog today to post a question that just happens to be about this very topic! This man and I have not yet met in person, have texted, etc. for almost three months now (live several states apart). Most of the interaction has been driven forward by him and his masculine ways, with me “leaning back.” He has responded beautifully to my emotions, has said “I am here for you,” offered comfort, etc. He has verbalized a strong attraction both physically and emotionally, and I feel the same way. He seems to be very good at taking care of himself, follows a spiritual path, takes responsibility for himself and his needs. ..

    However, a couple weeks ago, he started texting less, and I began to feel that he was drifting away, and wished he would just tell me if he was no longer interested. I texted him and said what I was feeling. He texted back, “Sorry. I am depressed. Working through it.” I was so surprised because he has not seemed like a person who struggles with depression — was always upbeat, joyful, fun, funny, playful. I am okay with this news, because I have been depressed at times in the past, and it’s not a deal-breaker for me.

    My question, though, is how to relate to him in this time when he seems withdrawn. I am glad that he is not crawling to me for help and I am resisting the urge to try to make him feel better with distracting him, etc. I feel that both of us need to let him work through this without my interference. Right now he texts about once a day (before it was about 10), just to say something like, “Still feeling pretty down” or “Thanks for the pics. Feeling a little better btw.” I don’t know how much to text him under these circumstances, and what kinds of things are okay to say. I don’t want to lean forward, but I do want him to feel my love and affection and care for him as he works through this. It’s hard because it is long-distance. He has talked a lot about coming to see me, but can’t for awhile because of his work situation.

    Any insights about this would be much appreciated! Thanks!

  56.  #56Nikita on October 24, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Take as much time as you need 🙂
    I trust you…….

    ……and then circular date….
    Xoxo nikita

  57.  #57Flipper on October 25, 2009 at 8:16 am

    ..and do such fun, passionate things that you talk to him about, rather than about his concerns (he does enough of that on his own, and you’re not his mother). This is Not ‘rubbing it in’. This is inspiring him to feel ‘hey, that sounds fantastic – so much better than wallowing. I’m gonna try a little harder to get a handle on my stuff so I can go see her and bask in her radiance without feeling guilty or weak.’ xxoo

  58.  #58Jabeen on November 7, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Hi Rori,

    I need some help here if it’s alright. I’m sorry if I’m bothering but, I just have to…well….do the girl thing and I feel that this is the right place to do it.

    I was supposed to meet a guy I really liked this morning for ice cream. I had asked him (I have a good reason for that trust me) and picked the place and everything. I don’t know why, but I could not find the place! I had been here 100 times and knew exactly where I was and going and here I come and I couldn’t find it, Rori! I am not joking! Finally I did but he had already left and said we’ll instead do lunch on Wed and he’ll pick the spot. But I feel so stupid!

    See I met this guy where I used to work. He was a superior, at one time he was even my manager. On more than one occasion he was very helpful to me when I was sick and afraid of using vacation time and sick days and etc. This happened to me twice and he was extremely kind and helpful. He also helped me with customers whose mortgages were not being paid due to medical reasons and let’s just say even with his job on the line he went out of his way to help people first. Last summer I was having an emotionally difficult time with the job and environment and he along with a few others were my rock to lean on and helped me get through. He finally one day asked if I was seeing anyone and told me how he thought I seemed like an excellent catch. He even asked me out but I turned him down because, well….I just wasn’t in the mindset at that time. Nonetheless our relationship was still solid and I was still able to lean on him.

    So after awhile I felt like okay, I would like to talk to him further outside of work, plus I got laid off. But I had already turned him down! So I just said hey, thank you for being there for me and I would like to show my appreciation and treat you to ice cream. He said great.

    So we were supposed to meet today and THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS! He was nice about it, he just told me to get a gps system….nevermind that I don’t have the money but oh well. He said ice cream didn’t workout today but we can meet wed for lunch at such and such a time, and I’ll (he) pick the spot. I told him I drove all over the San Francisco Bay Area and here (I’m in Dallas now) I am unable to find a place I have been to hundreds of times within its own complex! Then I said this occasion calls for a multiple f word chanting. Then my phone drops but that’s okay as he needs another phone too, but I digress.

    I know maybe I should leave it, he said he wants to still meet and if he didn’t want to, he probably would not have offered. On the outside I am calm, and maintaining, I have not done the girl thing with him by whining or made too many excuses for myself lol. I apologized to him and said okay Wednesday it is, but Rori….did I mess this up? My internal mind won’t shut up on analyzing, beating myself up, and hoping he doesn’t think that I’m stupid. It WAS stupid thing to do but honest

  59.  #59Jabeen on November 7, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Ooops, hit submit too early accidentally (what a day, huh lol). I was going to say honest I truly sincerely just couldn’t find this place and felt lost. I asked for directions and did everything I could and for some reason I could not find the joint! I don’t know why that happened, but I just feel really guilty that I didn’t treat him the way I should have and he was always so good to me. And I didn’t do it on purpose….I was literally lost! He asked me if I had run to the place at least once, I said more than once! I know this place that’s why I picked it. I’m sorry, I just feel like crying.

  60.  #60La'Verne Godfrey-Jones on November 9, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    After persuing me 4 months, I finally deciding to spend time with this guy. We were attracted to each other from first sight. I asked my friend to join us; I was nervous to be alone with him. He and I had a great time, we played, laughed, flirted, it was nice. I didn’t realize that he had a problem with me bringing my friend along, until one of his relative told me that next day. When I spoke with him, he told me that he wasn’t interested in me. He also stated that he moves around too much to be playing games with me. I don’t understand, because he persued me for so long and we had such a great time. I did leave him alone, but I was hurt. Should I just forget about him?

  61.  #61Rori Raye on November 9, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    LaVerne, Welcome, and wish I could help you more. I’m troubled by the thought that he actually pursued you for 4 months and then said he was never interested. Either he’s completely a fool, or you are having difficulty getting what’s going on with you and a man. Did he actually ask you out for a date? If so, and you accepted, bringing a friend was very inappropriate. If there was a different scenario, please let me know and I’ll go from there. Love, Rori

  62.  #62Jabeen on November 18, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Hi Rori, just wanted to say oooops to my rant last week, everything is alright *phew.* I panicked for no reason then I ranted incoherently on here. I really need your tools, lol. No but in all seriousness I do. All these things are new, unlearning what we’ve learned all these years and balancing between learning new tools and accepting ourselves….sometimes we make mistakes like the one I made last week. But your material is just so terrific and it’s very practical. It’s as if we have always known all these things all along….but it was subconscious and buried, hidden away so deep that it was impossible to articulate exactly. You have helped greatly in identified and shedding light on all this knowledge that we as women had innately but had it lost in the shuffle. Thanks so much for that.

    Oh, and if it’s possible to delete my rant above…feel free to do so. Or should I say, PLEASE do so lol.

  63.  #63Jennie on January 19, 2010 at 6:47 pm


    Please help me. I’m sad and angry and on the verge of tears every moment of the day. I need some direction, please.

    I don’t even know where to begin my head is spinning. I started seeing someone about three months ago – but it has without a doubt been the most odd and frustrating “relationship” I have ever been involved in. We see each other maybe once a week – a lot of these times are when we meet out for drinks – sometimes late on wknd nights. When we are together we have these incredible converstations. We have shared our feelings for each other, have talked about the future, he even told me last Wednesday that he loves me and he feels that being “in love” with me is going to come as well. I have told him I want a real relationship, that I want to feel safe and happy and before that happens I will be dating other men. He also sees someone once in awhile but they have not had sex in months (we too have not had sex…he’s not a man whore by any means). He naturally doesn’t like that I’m dating others. We’ve both shared that we want a relationship, that we love being in relationships and yet this is going nowhere. In his own words he said ‘we’re in limbo and I hate limbo. You’re scared that I won’t commit and I’m scared that you won’t be able to let go of these other men’, so here we are stuck in limbo and you won’t pull the trigger and I won’t pull the trigger’. I have told him I need him to make the effort but he just doesn’t seem to do it. Last Wed. after one of our very deep conversations (my heart sings when we talk like this) he told me that his big fear is that he’s afraid he can’t make me happy. I told him that couldn’t be further from the truth that I feel completely happy when we’re together, he makes me laugh and I feel safe. I said it’s when we’re not together that things feel awkward. I trust him. He is a good man. He looks me directly in the eyes and is always the initiator of talks about the relationship and the future. I saw him Wed. I invited him over to dinner on Friday, Saturday he told me he couldn’t (had a friend in from out of town), and now it’s Tues and I haven’t heard from him. This is frequently how it goes. I never know when I’ll hear from him or see him again.

    The problem is that while I’m dating others I don’t know if I can take this any longer. I feel I’m falling apart at the seams. But at the same time my gut is telling me this is the guy. I have never (I’m 34) felt this kind of connection and chemistry with another man. He too told me he’s only felt this way about someone 2 or 3 times before (he’s 37). It is like magic when we’re together. I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why he says all of these wonderful things and doesn’t follow it up with action.

    I’m thinking of sending him an email telling him of my feelings. That this is too hard to continue to do adn that I want to find a real serious relationship but that it’s too hard to do while he’s in my life. I want to ask him not to contact me so that I can find something meaningful, that I feel sad but I need to move on.

    Please send me your thoughts

  64.  #64Rori Raye on January 19, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Jennie – Whoa!!! It’s only 3 months!! You’re moving too fast!!! Once a week is nothing. You can’t build a relationship on that. Even a young man I dated many years ago knew he needed to book me up 2 times in a week. This man is totally snowing you with words, and you’re afraid to speak your truth. Write a speech, please, like you would compose an email to him. Next time you see him, and he brings up your relationship and you dating other men, and all that…ask…”Well, what would it look like if I agreed to try not dating other men for a month, let’s say? Would I see you more often? Would we talk more often?” In other words…your ideas of what a relationship is and isn’t might be very different. For 3 months, seeing him once a week – you are “just” dating. When he talks relationship – call his bluff. Smile…ask him what he wants to do…Love, Rori

  65.  #65lm on March 2, 2010 at 10:28 am

    my guy had drug, alcohol and mood issues when i met him. i didn’t realise the extent of these problems until i was well into the relationship and felt trapped, obsessed and weak. it was crazy for me for a while. i was angry, insecure, depressed. but i focused on me, got my strength back and refused to let his moods affect my own happiness (i found that reiki, hypnotherapy and buddhist philosophy helped a lot in these areas, along with rori’s tools). he tried to use me as a counsellor at one point and i told him that i didn’t want to be that person for him. he started helping himself. now he never parties, drinks lightly once a week at most (instead of getting drunk every day) and exercises every day after work to deal with his moods. i didn’t ask him to do any of these things, but i think my leaning back made him pull himself up by his own bootstraps for the first time in his life. in the past, he’d been mothered and babied by girlfriends whom he took advantage of. but i knew i didn’t want that. regardless of how this turns out, i know my own self-worth and my trust in him to deal with his own issues were integral to his healing (and mine!).

  66.  #66Lozzy on May 8, 2010 at 4:36 am


    Wow, again, I am so glad I found this website!!

    I made an entry on your blog about him being on online dating sites.

    I followed the advice

    I have found 3 other people to circular date, although I have only met one so far.

    I told him how it made me feel to find him on the sites, that I was feeling hurt and scared and unsure.

    He came back to me in tears, apologising and begging for another chance. Saying he loves me and wants to be with me. Deleted the profiles off the sites. So I agreed to keep seeing him. Everything seemed good.

    Then BAM!! he has hassle with the issues coming up from the finalities of his divorce, money problems, work problems…… sitting with me in silence all of the time. Breaking plans, all the usual withdrawl stuff.

    So, I decided to lean back even further than usual. But I am not sure I had enough.

    Then last night I asked him if he was planning to come to the things we had tentatively arranged to do together with various friends this weekend as I had to finalise my arrangements. He said no he is bad company at the moment. So my other plans were made without including him.

    He told me he is seriouly unhappy at the moment and he has just shut off to everything. So really why would I want to spend the weekend with a hunk of silent pity party man when I could be having fun with my friends?

    He then started trying to get me to change my plans when we parted company last night. So I said to him “I asked you to come, you declined due to your issues. These are your issues for you to solve. I am here for you, but I can’t fix this for you. Go sort yourself out, we’ll meet up when you are feeling more sociable”

    I was really happy to not have the prospect of him being moody and trying to drag me down with him this weekend.

    This morning he has already text me to see if I was ok. I said I am good how are you. He said, tired, have a nice weekend. So I just said Thanks, you to. It feels as if he is bating me to change what I am doing to go to him. It feels wrong to do that but wrong not to go to my man (ingrained)

    One of his other problems, is that I may or may not be pregnant. I have had to have blood tests to confirm due to a hormonal problem. My Dr has said it is unlikely (phew) but the symptoms are all there although could be something more sinister.

    I am not feeling supported by him, the choice of an unwanted pregnancy vs cancer. I know what I would choose.

    So until I know what if anything is up with me, I do not want to sit and feel crappy in an uncomfortable silence. So I choose not to.

    I will not call or text him (I never do, he always approaches me)

    I will not collect him (he doesn’t drive so I usually do, but not anymore!)

    I will see my friends and talk to my tentative circular date buddies and try and be happy.

    This last month with my man has been horrible. I love him but it isn’t fun at the moment. I want it to be how it was. I do not want to lose him.


    I can’t keep being the helper girl. It is making me miserable and won’t get me anywhere.


    I am going to do what makes me happy right now.

    I will not contact him at all. Let him come to me.

    I am going to write my list of what a good relationship looks like FOR ME.

    Then I get stuck

    How do I convey this to him in feeling messages if we are not really talking?

    How do I bring this up when he is under such stress and obviously cannot cope with what he is dealing with?

    Again, hit me, I FEEL BAD MAKING IT WORSE FOR HIM!!!


    Some advice please girls! I am confused about what I am doing right and wrong here and I know some will be wrong as I am new to all of this…..


  67.  #67m on August 28, 2011 at 6:50 am

    D and I met 1/172010. I feel it was want I went to a studio looking for a band, he was.a guitar.playrr. he pursued me and soon we were in a committed relationship.
    I had never been so happy or thought I had ever found true love, even though I was married in 1999 and divorced in 2004.

    He adored Me back. After each had a failed long term relationship we.both ended up living at home w parents. I stayed at D’s most of the time. I didn’t know rules then!!!  In may 2010, we were approved for our own apartment. D who already had and stated that he has esteem.issues, lost his low paying job the next day.

    D comes from an, and suffers from alcohol and addiction issues as well as depression and anxiety disorders. I didn’t know at time. In July 2010. He pushed me away, although I didn’t know why.

    He would contact me by text once.a day. How are you doing? and such. Very cold withdrawn. I was devastated and didn’t know what happened. I thought he found someone, became hysterical and over reacted accusing him of things. The couple x I saw him, he was drinking himself half to death.

    One month later, he asked me to do something and callously blew me off. I confronted him, he was behaving so odd, then broke up with me. I thought id die. I felt he was my one. I left. Next day he barraged me with texts calls and emails. Said he was in dark place and made biggest mistake of his life. That he was so depressed and couldn’t see good in his life. That he didn’t know if he could ever be the man I needed. He has never had a good girl in his life before or a good relationship.

    He and I were hot and heavy again. I was happier than ever before. He was out of my life 3 weeks. I was so happy to have him back, but something was bothering me about his odd behavior during that time.
    Every now and again, I’d get sad and ask questions. He constantly kept telling me I was the love of his life and had he money, he would marry me and move in. Scoop me up before someone else did.

    What I need to add. The relationship prior to me he had was with a verbally and physically abusive woman who have D an std. Hpv. He did disclose he had it.
    We took precautions…but I ended up getting it too. I just didn’t know it at the time 🙁

    Over course of the year, I was getting sick. Random stressful things Dr would chalk up to something else. I have endometriosis and had been getting hormone shots for 11 yrs to control it. Dr started looking at option to wean me off.

    In October, D became withdrawn one night. My heart sank, and my tendency to over react was mounting because my hormones were off. I was very emotional a lot, so was under anxiety that night because of his attitude shift.

    He told me he was in love with me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, and wanted it to be good and not start off with lies. He told me during summer when he broke up with me, he relapsed.. he had done coke and gone to a crackhouse.

    I was devastated and at this point…back into it fully.
    I remained calm. I tried to forgive/forget because it was months before.
    I still loved him but guess I couldn’t forget.
    One month later. I found out I had Precancerous cells on my cervix. My odd and intense emotions could attributed to this. I was scared to death. Found out day after thanksgiving. Surgery set for mid December

    D was with me every step of way. Until they found out the hpv I got from him is what caused it.
    Although he was still with me, he was hot cold. Depressed. Sleeping/drinking lots. He still hadn’t found a job.

    I have a great job. Supported us both even though I was ill. Started seeing psychologist to get me through.
    D stopped being affectionate, which caused fear, pain and anxieties in me. On top of being ill and weaning off 11 yr hormone. He stopped touching me. Kissing me. Complimenting me at all. The more he shut down and became uncommunicative I was clingy, and tried everything I could to get my boy back. He started going out w the guys. Drinking tons. I kept asking if there was someone else and if he was.on drugs again.

    I did find out he was doing coke 🙁 🙁 my psychologist was trying to help me through with the hope that he would choose rehab and get well. Horrible horrible situation. But. I loved him and wouldn’t give up.
    In past 2 months he’s nearly unrecognizable. He became passive aggressive w me saying things like. I am not feeling it anymore. You’re too emotionally fragile were not compatible I’m not attracted to you anymore. Next day he would say I never said that, I can’t take this anymore…you talk too much..over emotional. This never going to change. All we do is talk about relationship.

    I wasn’t completely off hormones, didn’t want to do anything rash. Broke rules and got reconnect to help.  I stopped responding to him for a week in may. He called 200 x saying I was the best thing that ever happened to him, he was disgusted with himself for getting me sick and his severe constant flare UPS made him scared to touch me.  It was like the beginning for a week. We put $ down on a house…he just started working a very good job. I tried to talk to him about what happened, he got mad. Shut down again. His signals were mixed and I was depressed.

    He grew more disrespectful and 2 weeks ago. Hormone finally left my system.
    He still had me at arms length. Still wouldn’t touch me. Said many times he wanted to be with me, but not with anyone. I didn’t understand, and if I asked him anything more to clarify he said all we do is talk about relationship, I talk too much or this is old to me now.

    I finally feeling better last week from hormones exiting body, tried to have loving talk. To reach out w both feet on ground.
    He invited me for movies at house. I didn’t even get to have talk. He was withdrawn. Moody, ignoring me. I asked why so resentful, angry toward me? He blew up and broke up with me.

    He said he’s not feeling it. I’m not one anymore.
    I left. Said I love him. Hoped he’d realize. Started getting let’s be pals texts and sorry it just didn’t work out texts
    Knife in heart. How could this be??? Drugs and alcohol I think 🙁

    I haven’t responded. It’s been 10 days. This behavior and being friends unacceptable.2 days ago he said he won’t contact anymore haven’t heard since. Only 48 hours but, never gone a day without contact since we met 🙁

    I truly love him and feel we were hijacked by traumatic circumstances and his addiction.

    I want him to heal. Get help w drugs/alcohol be accountable for treating me so poorly after he got me sick and realize he made a mistake letting me go without even trying to talk/work it out. Miss me, Chase me and value/adore me again. Open up his heart and mind so we can be in love again.
    He keeps asking if we can be friends. I am angry because he wouldn’t talk when things shifted to keep connection. Know this is complex. But I love him and can’t imagine my life without him 🙁