Can I Love Someone Who Doesn’t Care For Me?

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relationshipThe answer is, simply, for me, a resounding NO.

Yes, I can feel “love” in the form of Chemistry and Lust (not a “bad” thing!)

Yes, I can feel “love” in the universal sense of us “all being one.”

Yes, I can feel “love” in the way I feel for a child or a homeless person on the street, or a pet.

Yes, my heart can feel like it’s pouring out of my chest.

And, No – I can’t “love” someone in a romantic relationship way all by myself.

That takes two people both behaving in loving, emotionally intimate ways with each other.

One person “feeling” it is something else entirely.

I can feel sensations, energy, an outpouring of emotion, all kinds of wonderful and frightening and thrilling and painful feelings.

And I can “label” them anything I want. I can call anything “love.”

What do you “call” “love”?

And – Does it matter what we call it?

Yes – I think it does.

I think that once we “label” something, we invent more thoughts around it that lead to more feelings, and before we know it – we have a whole story made up that isn’t even close to what’s actually happening.

A story that’s miles and miles and miles away from serving us, our needs and our heart’s desires.

The Question:

“Rori, I’ve been seeing this guy for a couple of years and I love him. But he doesn’t spend time with me. Every time we see each other its to have sex and I feel frustrated because I want to take our relationship further. He leads me to believe that he has feelings for me also but never speaks to me about them and if I ever bring up the subject he changes it.

Sorry to make this so long. We had a fight a few days ago in which he told me to leave him alone and I said out of anger that I would never bother him again. But now I miss him and want to reach out. I don’t know what to do. I know I’ve been a doormat and have done everything to please him and now I feel angry because I know I deserve more but I love him. Sharon”

My Answer:

Sharon – I felt intensely triggered by your comment.

I immediately felt angry and wanted to launch a “lecture” at you, suggest you get coaching…highly charged.

And why?

Clearly – I identify with you.

I do not enjoy remembering the many men I not only allowed to treat me in a humiliating way – I invited them in.

I ASKED them to “humiliate” me. I asked them to treat me like a dishrag, a tissue.

I ASKED them to treat me like an unpaid prostitute (a level way below prostitute, actually, because being a prostitute is a profession, and prostitutes get paid).

I ASKED them to not notice, acknowledge, or care even a tiny bit about me or my “feelings” – because I had no “touch” with myself OR my feelings – so why would they?

In fact – I WANTED them to ignore my feelings, just the way I ignored my feelings.

I WANTED to be invisible.

I WANTED to just have sex, because that was really all I wanted.

I didn’t know itbut I couldn’t handle anything more than sex.

I understood sex.

I had no understanding of affection or respect – much less “love.”

I’m not saying this is you, but it sure feels like it inside me.

The best way through this for you, in my personal and professional experience, is private coaching. Where someone excellent and caring can shine a light on what’s really going on outside you, in your situation with this man – and inside you, instead of what’s “running you” now.

Right now, you’re listening to and believing only what’s going on your head.

And I totally get that.

With a good coach, you can see (and gasp with shock) clearly what kind of treatment you’re inviting in in the form of this man – who, also clearly (without saying anything about his character), does not care for you or about you one bit.

There is no question worth your breath to ask him.

The only questions are for you to ask yourself:

What am I doing here?

For what reason am I investing myself emotionally in this man?

For what reason am I not hearing him when he says, and demonstrates through action, that he doesn’t want anything to do with me other than sex?

What do I feel for myself that this is what I want?

How can I “love” someone who doesn’t care for me?

The answers are all in you – and when you find them, you’ll be ready to step up and begin to act in a loving way towards YOU.

Thank you for reminding me that my job to love myself will never end.

That there is no end point where it’s “enough” love I’m giving to myself.

Love to you, and let’s all of us in this community lift our well-worn flashlights up high to help you find your way to the Sharon who loves Sharon.

The Sharon who no longer needs this man to continue.

Love, Rori

 

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223 Comments

  1.  #1Sami Wunder on March 26, 2015 at 8:50 am

    This felt terrific to read Rori ! Even as a coach I could feel goosebumps coming up while reading it.

    You hit it right on the nail.

    So many women treat their lives so cheaply… its almost disheartening sometimes… so many don´t do justice to their own greatness.

    Thanks for writing this !!



  2.  #2prplpsn28 on March 26, 2015 at 9:13 am

    🙂



  3.  #3Kar on March 26, 2015 at 9:25 am

    that was very thought provoking and insightful, Rori1 Thank you



  4.  #4Elsie on March 26, 2015 at 10:04 am

    OMG. This is the BEST. POST. EVER.

    I used to be like this. I cringe thinking about it. The behavior I accepted from men. Now, I treat myself with respect and dignity first. It doesnt matter to me to tiptoe around my feelings – and guess what – I KNOW what I deserve now, so its easier to figure out what my feelings are.

    And get this. I say what my feelings are – my TRUE feelings, the ones that I used to be afraid would make men run, and you know what? They dont run at all. They respect me. I have more dates now than I know what to do with.

    A guy from Oklahoma is willing to drive 10 hours round trip and get a hotel just to visit me. Another one is willing to drive an hour one way just to be with me. Another completely changed his child’s schedule to accomodate mine so that he could take me out.

    I wasnt rude. But I know what I want, and I know my feelings are important. No a**clown or Jerktard will ever get the better of me again.

    Its NOT just about leaning back, giving space. Its NOT just about listening to someone elses feelings.

    Its about honoring YOUR feelings MORE than theirs, and making yourself the most important. Because if you do that – then they will too.

    It took me three full years for it to sink in. For me not to “play games” with it or try to “manipulate” the situation so that I could get what I wanted in the end. But now after three years, I really really get it, and my life has changed. My daughter will reap the benefit of this as well, – she will SEE how men should treat women and how a woman should treat herself.

    Thank you Rori. You changed my whole life, and my daughters. 🙂



  5.  #5Sami Wunder on March 26, 2015 at 10:30 am

    Elsie, LOVE IT ! Go Girl ! Go Diva!

    Love, Sami



  6.  #6Femininewoman on March 26, 2015 at 10:53 am

    This post brought tears to my eyes.



  7.  #7Azure Blu on March 26, 2015 at 11:06 am

    FW #5
    I feel curious…
    What about this post brought you to tears?



  8.  #8Femininewoman on March 26, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    I guess I am face to face with my demons of not honoring and loving myself. It moved me today to start offering forgiveness and compassion to myself.



  9.  #9Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Just want to get a couple more opinions on this before I send it:

    Cont. of post 83
    I feel like I want to answer his question more specifically than I did last night.

    How does this sound? Any suggestions, or ways to make it short and sweet, magical and imaginative?

    I almost added in something about all the things I’ve been offered lately, (vacations, houses, shopping, marriage)…and how that’s all fun and exciting, but .. I want someone who wants kids, is tenacious, happy, and knows what they want. Because I feel like lighting a bit of a fire under him, that he sees that others want me and are serious about it. But I felt like it was too much, that he might think I just think I’m the bees knees, lol so I left that out. He’s an aries, and I think he appreciates others being humble.

    I’ve been offered so many things, I don’t know if he’d believe it anyway, or else think I must be having sex with these guys, which I’m not. He doesn’t really know that I see anyone else, tho he must guess, but he has no idea. He also only recently realized I now have a network of people helping me with childcare, so I’m not tied up just all the time just because I have our child with me.

    After my business meeting the other night, I did tell him in the morning, “Let me out of the house for five minutes alone on a Monday night and two men are already trying to keep me”. (They both wasted no time.) hehe.
    Then asked if we could get together that night when he got back to town (as discussed tentatively a few days prior). I did get a quick and direct response. (“when are you free?” and when I didn’t respond immediately, he asked “are you ok?” (he never asks that!?)

    How does this sound? Should I shorten it? Should I add something? If you would word something in this note differently, please suggest.

    ______
    I was feeling my way through your question last night.
    When I said Yes I want to buy (or build) a house, you asked if that was all, just buy a house?

    Yes, there are other things I intend having.
    (And that I would feel happy doing with you!)

    What I HAVE, (our child) & making a Home & Family is what is important to me.

    What I want is sharing everything. Being a wife, to a man with whom I feel enthusiastically, openly, passionately wanted, who is excited about having and being a partner! Imagining sharing his name.. Loyalty. Always on each other’s side. Being a team. Open, honest, forthcoming, vulnerable, playful, connective. Devotion, sticking together. I don’t want someone else’s family. I want mine. Raising our children that are ours together. Giving our kids freedom to learn, teaching and guiding them. Working together in all we do. Best friends. Making exciting memories! Being there for it all, together! Falling in love over and over again! Dreaming it together and living it together! Celebrating everything!

    Being a family. Being a wife. Partnership, Togetherness..and Home.
    It may sound simple, but that’s what feels fulfilling to me!



  10.  #10Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Just want to get a couple more opinions on this before I send it:

    Cont. of post 83
    I feel like I want to answer his question more specifically than I did last night.

    How does this sound? Any suggestions, or ways to make it short and sweet, magical and imaginative?

    I almost added in something about all the things I’ve been offered lately, (vacations, houses, shopping, marriage)…and how that’s all fun and exciting, but .. I want someone who wants kids, is tenacious, happy, and knows what they want. Because I feel like lighting a bit of a fire under him, that he sees that others want me and are serious about it. But I felt like it was too much, that he might think I just think I’m the bees knees, lol so I left that out. He’s an aries, and I think he appreciates others being humble.

    I’ve been offered so many things, I don’t know if he’d believe it anyway, or else think I must be having sex with these guys, which I’m not. He doesn’t really know that I see anyone else, tho he must guess, but he has no idea. He also only recently realized I now have a network of people helping me with childcare, so I’m not tied up just all the time just because I have our child with me.

    After my business meeting the other night, I did tell him in the morning, “Let me out of the house for five minutes alone on a Monday night and two men are already trying to keep me”. (They both wasted no time.) hehe.
    Then asked if we could get together that night when he got back to town (as discussed tentatively a few days prior). I did get a quick and direct response. (“when are you free?” and when I didn’t respond immediately, he asked “are you ok?” (he never asks that!?)

    How does this sound? Should I shorten it? Should I add something? If you would word something in this note differently, please suggest.

    ______
    I was feeling my way through your question last night.
    When I said Yes I want to buy (or build) a house, you asked if that was all, just buy a house?

    Yes, there are other things I intend having.
    (And that I would feel happy doing with you!)

    What I HAVE, (our child) & making a Home & Family is what is important to me.

    What I want is sharing everything. Being a wife, to a man with whom I feel enthusiastically, openly, passionately wanted, who is excited about having and being a partner! Imagining sharing his name.. Loyalty. Always on each other’s side. Being a team. Open, honest, forthcoming, vulnerable, playful, connective. Devotion, sticking together. I don’t want someone else’s family. I want mine. Raising our children that are ours together. Giving our kids freedom to learn, teaching and guiding them. Working together in all we do. Best friends. Making exciting memories! Being there for it all, together! Falling in love over and over again! Dreaming it together and living it together! Celebrating everything!

    Being a family. Being a wife. Partnership, Togetherness..and Home.
    It may sound simple, but that’s what feels fulfilling to me!



  11.  #11Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Hmm. Having problems with both my internet and Akismet. My last post showed up, but not the other one to Gemini Goddess.

    Also Dominique, thanks for posting those links on the last post, it’s always more helpful than having to dig around for them.. I really like your sort of relaxed view about things, you seem to interact energetically a lot like I do. I’ve always felt a similarity between us in that regard.



  12.  #12Azure Blu on March 26, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    {{{FW}}} #7
    Nice!!!
    oxox



  13.  #13Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    Ok, here is the note I ended up sending. Hoping he eats it up! 😀

    I meant to send you this the other night:

    I was feeling my way through our conversation last night.
    When I said Yes I want to buy (or build) a house, you asked if that was all, just buy a house? I’m not sure exactly what you were asking..but I feel like sharing what I was thinking.

    Yes, there are other things I intend having.
    (And that I would feel happy doing with you!!)

    What I HAVE, (our child) & making a Home & Family is what is important to me.

    What I want is sharing everything. Being a wife, to a man with whom I feel enthusiastically, openly, passionately wanted, who is excited about having and being a partner! Imagining sharing his name.. Loyalty. Always on each other’s side. Being a team. Open, honest, forthcoming, vulnerable, playful, connective. Devotion, sticking together. I don’t want someone else’s family. I want mine. Raising our children that are *ours together*. Giving our kids freedom to learn, teaching and guiding them. Growing food. Traveling. Working together in all we do. Best friends. Making exciting memories! Being there for it all, together! Falling in love over and over again! Dreaming it together and living it together! Celebrating everything!

    I’ve been offered a LOT of exciting things lately, (vacations, going on a summer tour starting next week, living in other countries, marriage, houses, shopping.) but choosing to spend my time on what is most important, (our child, making a home & family) and being here, and that feels fulfilling to me. I want to be with a man who wants children, since I have one, (and better that they share our dna). Someone who is tenacious, chooses happiness, and knows what they want, like I do. I want to do it all with my family and with a partner to share it with who is going to be around a long time.

    It may sound simple, but it all comes down to this.
    Being a family. Being a wife. Partnership, Togetherness..and Home.

    Everything else is the whipped cream. 😀



  14.  #14Gemini Goddess on March 26, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    I can remember a time when I would have related to Sharon. Good to realize how far I’ve come.



  15.  #15Mandy on March 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    I just saw something very shocking happen…J made an appointment for the psychiatrist right in front of me.

    WOW, that was powerful!

    Baby steps? And surprise? I feel pretty good about it!



  16.  #16Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    Sent him that email. He has been at work a day and I’m sure he’ll think about it later tonight.

    He was just here to pick up our little one. He ignored any flirty comments I made earlier today, or comment about the place I found and question about if he is still allergic to cats. (That was before the email, though, so the email didn’t affect that).

    But I swear while he was standing here he was texting that other woman, and he didn’t even give me a hug.

    Confused by his behavior, but.. Maybe it’s just a lot for him and he is kind of in his cave and if I just stay happy and let him know he is free, as often as I can, maybe he’ll feel safe to be close. But I feel sad no hug, or kiss. Etc, but shouldn’t I let him initiate that most of the time? I feel like asking for it if he’s not already being affectionate at the time feels more like pressure, and saying I’m sad about it must feel like he didn’t make me happy. (Of course I come from MILW who sees all feeling messages as manipulation.) I feel like if I text to say anything affectionate it would just say I noticed and feel like leaning forward so I will say nothing, stay happy and busy. (Unless someone knows a better way to deal when he is rubber banding!!!)

    He isn’t telling me no about living together, he said he doesn’t know, and I can stay with him, and wanted to come see the place I found and get photos/links to the others. Sort of a yes, but hasn’t moved forward any further with any words or telling me if he is looking for places for us.

    … He hasn’t told me not to tell him about more places, but he didn’t respond today. Or say anything once he got here. I want to call and ask him about it later tonight but… Not sure if I should or not?? Maybe look back to Dominique’s post about when to initiate, … It’s following up on something we have been discussing, which has a deadline. Unless we end up staying in his apartment.



  17.  #17Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    I hate when my messages are not acknowledged but he messages me about something else.

    He does a lot of ignoring people quite frequently.

    Not sure how to respond to this non-acknowledgement.
    And should stop getting worked up about it.
    Because who cares anyway. If he can’t keep up with me……..!

    What do you think?
    I know, he will probably come out with all I need to know later, next week, when we talk.
    A day or two before I need to be moved.

    I do not like this waiting. We were going to talk today or tomorrow, but he forgot he had to go out of town to work.



  18.  #18Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    And it especially bothers me that he is STILL talking to that other woman. And probably went to see her last night (night before when we were out he told me he had plans Wednesday so we could talk fri/sat/sun as he hadn’t planned anything.



  19.  #19Kim on March 26, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    Oh wow..I can’t even begin to tell you, Rori, how much this resonates, I want to scream: YES!!
    “What am I doing here?

    For what reason am I investing myself emotionally in this man?

    For what reason am I not hearing him when he says, and demonstrates through action, that he doesn’t want anything to do with me other than sex?

    What do I feel for myself that this is what I want?

    How can I “love” someone who doesn’t care for me?”

    Wow. I feel like puking when I hear women say they love a man so much, and that man clearly has no or just the bare minimum of love or care or anything for the woman…and I was that woman once…so now when I see it, I get so triggered and I want to say:
    This is NOT love, it is you wanting you to stay miserable and call it ‘love’. I am sorry, but that is what it is…yes, we can ‘love’ a child even if it is hurtful, yes, I can love my mother even though she has done some terrible things to me…I can love them and pass them by. Never never never again will I spend this sick kind of ‘love’ on a man who doesn’t have anything..I can love him like a child on the street, I can observe him curiously, but I surely would not waste another minute on a guy who’s just in it for the ride..nothing wrong with that but it’s not the relationship I want and deserve.
    Thank you!!!



  20.  #20Kim on March 26, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Elsie, love that!



  21.  #21Dominique on March 26, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    Mandy – 12 – This is HUGE. And so very great. YAY!!!

    xxoo



  22.  #22Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    And… He as already told me I can come live at his apartment. I feel like if he’s talking to this girl, he must have told her?! … I feel even if I move in and he is with me, he may keep talking to her, or she may pressure him to have me move out, (or not move in, or not move with me), or whatever, and I need to be prepared with equally powerful responses. So far he hasn’t said anything different, but the fact that he is talking to her bothers me.

    I guess I will just have to wait til Monday/Tuesday to talk to him.. And I hate to, because that puts pressure on me- I feel that as that is my deadline, it’s sort of like I agree to his terms or whatever he says, … I will just have to be prepared with a different place to stay in case.

    But why do I have to be so negative?
    This is not the story I want to believe. If rather believe he is still working his way towards me and a life together.

    Hopefully he agrees we are sexually exclusive and only seeing each other, but if he doesn’t stop talking to her, or if he agrees to be sexually exclusive but intends to keep seeing anyone else.. Not sure how to handle that.

    Blah.
    Stop it, brain!

    Feeling unacknowledged, impatient, nervous, ….
    But still feel my cool, rock star edge there….

    I did ask him to bring me a coffee today if he passed a Starbucks. He said he would, if he did- traffic was really bad.
    He didn’t bring one, but I felt good to decide I am worth it, (tho I did say I had $5, I always offer but he never lets me pay!) and I deserve it (after all I even switched kid-wknds with him this wknd just because he wanted to).

    I am not good at asking for things, but I felt good at it today!!



  23.  #23Zia on March 26, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    Love this post. I have been there, NEVER AGAIN! 🙂



  24.  #24Zia on March 26, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    Silver-tongued siren – have you got rori’s ebook? It seems to me like you’re wanting to move the relationship forward, row the boat, force his hand, make him hurry up and make some sort of decision, or commitment, when you’re not actually in a relationship with each other? One of the first and most important things that is in the book and the foundation for everything is: Do nothing. Drop the ball. Let him pick it up, if he wants…. drop the oars. Just, let it all go. If you haven’t read the ebook, I highly recommend it.



  25.  #25Zia on March 26, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    silver – also, if you have another place lined up, go for it! you can do this on your own. you’ll learn so much about yourself and how much you’re capable of and your own strength. and then you won’t NEED anything from him, he’ll have the space to come to you if that’s what he wants. the fact that you are the one who has to keep pushing or asking re living at his place or finding a place together is a pretty clear signal….



  26.  #26Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    Zia, Yes, I have the old version of it. Things with him have been moving forward, but I’m feeling anxious right now because I’m moving out of my space in four days, he told me I could stay with him, and his actions have shown him to be interested in finding a place with me, Yet, there are details and agreements we have not discussed, that would help me know where I stand.

    I feel that he wants me there but is not truly certain he wants to give up this other woman. I feel he is hesitating, rubber-banding.

    But he told me I could stay with him, and has been looking at places with me. He clearly wants that, and he clearly wants to spend time with me, and he’s clearly considering the possibility of our relationship being more serious… but he’s not SAYING anything (….he’s also never been that communicative, he’s one of those men whose actions I have to watch because he isn’t as verbal. other men compliment me all day long, tell me everything they think, are honest with me which is better than me not knowing what they’re thinking. but HE is very quiet. Especially when he’s working things out in his head.)

    It’s the lack of certainty that is bothering me.
    I haven’t been able to find a new place, and I’ve told him that I’d really like to do things together, and if he doesn’t, and doesn’t really want me there, I don’t want to be there. He hasn’t yet responded to that either.

    I’m sure I’ll get all my answers Monday or Tuesday.
    Yet, I feel nervous and anxious waiting, because I truly don’t have any certain options, (housing market is VERY competitive here).

    All my posts are just my mind driving me crazy with too much thinking.
    I am not trying to force his hand at all, I’ve said several times that when he doesn’t respond as I like I am too busy to notice anyway, and stay happy, and he comes back when he’s ready and all is well- and that I’ve let him know he is free to do as he chooses, be here or not be here, be with me or not be with me. I’ve let him know I’d like that, but there are plenty of options around me. I’ve said that I’m still searching and prepared to stay elsewhere if he and I are not in alignment. My email to him was in response to a question he asked that I gave a very vague answer to previously, and my texts to him about the places I found were sent because he has asked me to come along and see the place I found/have the links to places I found. His lack of response is now bothering me, as is him texting another woman, and not being more definitive about whether he does desire moving together or not. (But, he is currently very stressed about money, and depressed about “not accomplishing anything” by his current age).
    Additionally, we’ve talked about moving in together several times, it just hasn’t worked out, so it’s not a new idea.

    So, none of these things is me rowing the boat, they are me responding, and staying in my energy. sometimes i initiate, since he has told me so many times in the past I don’t have to ask to call, or told me I know where he is, or to just call him. so if our conversations have been flowing, I initiate. when they stop flowing, I disappear for a while.

    I am just posting to get stuff out of my head and get clear.



  27.  #27Silver-Tongued Siren on March 26, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    Dominique, thanks for posting the links to your blogs in the previous thread. So much easier than going to dig through it all. I always resonate with you, as you and I seem to have a more relaxed approach to things. I love your blog and hearing your thoughts here.

    Gemini Goddess- I loved your advice to Azure Blu on the previous thread. I tried to respond earlier but I’ve been having problems here with posting, all day – and nearly every time I come (it always says “akisment is having problems”.) Also my internet keeps going in and out.

    I have experienced the exact things you mentioned feeling in your post to Azure. I think you are right on!



  28.  #28ruth on March 26, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    I must confess that my first reaction to this was tears. Floods of the blighters!
    Ah well



  29.  #29Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 12:01 am

    He said last week we should get together and talk about some things, This week. Two nights ago we didn’t have enough time, he said, and he needed to be able to focus, so he wouldn’t talk to me about it while we were down by the water.

    I know he wants to talk about our child, I don’t know what else he wants to talk about. He forgot he had to work out of town this wknd, but he said we would still make time to talk.

    I do really like that he’s been far more responsive and far more SOLID lately. It makes me feel like I’m doing something right.



  30.  #30Zia on March 27, 2015 at 12:09 am

    Silver – the thing is, if he wanted to move in with you, he’d be making solid plans. He’d be attentive to your needs here. He’d have organised something or made sure you knew 100% that you were able to stay with him. There would be no confusion, doubt or hesitation. You wouldn’t be driving yourself crazy by overthinking, or wondering what he is thinking, or trying to work things out in your mind. It would be very clear and obvious! I just worry that if you try and push this and he’s not sure, then when you move in together he might feel pressured or stuck (which would cause more problems).

    If you are able to find a place for yourself – then that’s you putting yourself first and making your own plans regardless of what he does or doesn’t do. I understand it may be tough but it’s definitely worth taking the time to look and see what else is available while you wait for him. And it gives you both the breathing space to allow things to progress a whatever pace it needs to.



  31.  #31Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 12:17 am

    Also, since the last two weeks he’s been interested in moving or living together, I wouldn’t take his sudden lack of response as a clear signal of anything – since I don’t know what he’s thinking. His actions earlier signaled INTEREST. I sense that he is just thinking right now, and considering what he wants. I’m just not feeling relaxed about it as I’m feeling the pressure of the inability to find a place to live in this town.
    I’m very confident in myself and am one of the strongest, most capable people I know. But where we live, even with all the confidence in the world, you still may find yourself living beneath an overpass, or heading back out of town. The housing market is outrageous here.

    Avocado knew BEFORE I was suddenly moving, that I wanted to live together and be together, and continued moving towards me. Being warmer, closer, spending more time. (and has in the past 3 years has asked me on a few occasions, all his own idea, to live together.)

    So, I’ve already shared what I want.
    After suddenly moving came up, he, already KNOWING that I think it would feel nice if we did this all together, and made a home together, said he didn’t know how he felt about getting a place together, but then came back and offered the place he already has.

    Since then, I have mentioned that if he does want to get a place, “I want things to be us/we/together, I don’t want any more “my weekend/your weekend, I want to do things together”. I told him two nights ago that if he doesn’t want to do things together, or doesn’t want me there, I don’t want to be there, but that I need to decide soon.

    I really think he is just hibernating for a moment while he thinks about all this.



  32.  #32Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 12:24 am

    He has made it clear I’m 100% able to stay with him. He just hasn’t made it clear whether he wants to find a NEW space together. He has told me he can’t really move unless the rent is the same as what he’s paying, because he can’t afford more.

    Also, I have absolutely been looking for space for myself the entire time. Unfortunately, smaller space for one is more expensive than a larger space when shared by two people. I am continuing to seek all options. I have told him that I am looking for spaces just for myself, but have also shared ones that would possibly work for both of us (since he asked).

    So far EVERYTHING (both for myself or both of us) has been too expensive, too far from our work/support system, and don’t want to live with children.



  33.  #33Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 12:31 am

    I agree if he were certain there wouldn’t be any confusion, however, he isn’t very communicative verbally and he seems to have delayed responses sometimes, being slow to let information sink in and consider it, before responding.

    I think he is uncertain, but he has not told me no. He said he doesn’t know. He has shown some interest. And, he HAS asked me more than once before.

    I worry a little about what you mentioned, but the way things are going, the only thing that would trap us together would be the housing market. My income is increasing, though, so living there would give me an opportunity to save money and hopefully the market would calm and I’d be able to find another space. Especially as the summer comes on and students leave town.

    As long as he’s not being gung ho, I will find a space if I can, but I move in four days. We’ll see.



  34.  #34Zia on March 27, 2015 at 12:33 am

    Silver – I do hope you find the perfect space for you and your kids to live, wherever that ends up being 🙂



  35.  #35Kath on March 27, 2015 at 2:29 am

    Silver, Can I ask you something?- Why are you so wrapped up in him and what he’s thinking and doing or not thinking and not doing?- What do you want for yourself and your child?- I only ask because I have done exactly the same thing-kept wanting more from my man and waiting for him to do something!-anything!- but then through Rori’s teaching and the Siren Sisters, I have learned to stop- stop waiting for him, stop wanting him to do something- lean back, physically and emotionally leave him alone-give him (and you!) space and time to think and feel a way through this. If you need to move, move-make a beautiful home for you and your child. Whatever will be will be beautiful Lady-we don’t need to rely on anyone else to make us happy. Much love xxx



  36.  #36Indigo on March 27, 2015 at 3:13 am

    Silver-Tongued Siren,

    My D is also not very verbally communicative – and this is not just with me, this is just who he IS – and also takes longer than usual to let things sink in and be certain/clear on things. I’ve got used to it now.

    An ex of mine described it as some men being like cruise liners as opposed to tug boats – takes a long time and lots of small turns to get them to turn.

    In any case, I hope things work out for you and that you are not left hanging. I am sure you will come up with a plan either way.



  37.  #37Indigo on March 27, 2015 at 3:47 am

    Kath 32,

    Love this.



  38.  #38Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Silver Tongued Siren – This may help you understand a not so vocal man better.

    http://sexandheart.com/your-uncommunicative-man/

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  39.  #39Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 7:15 am

    I came across this one as well, Silver, while looking for the one on communication. It may feel relevant.

    http://sexandheart.com/words-vs-actions/

    xxoo



  40.  #40Kim on March 27, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Just a comical anecdote from this side of the fence…so boatman was getting quite insistent on having a boat/dinner date with me…I didn’t feel good going on a one-on-one, since MoM is moving in. Told him I am dating someone, and, sorrrrrryyyyy…response blew me away, no sign of upset/anger/sadness BUT:
    “you are way too much woman not to have something going. I don’t mind competition!!”
    Too funny. Cracked me up….that’s men for you!
    On a side note, while we were boating, he was receiving calls/texts from a woman chasing him and he looked PAINED…he said ‘oh, I feel so bad, this girl is on my case and I am just not feeling it for her, I just don’t know what to say to her’.
    For all those ambivalent men we chase or cajole or beg….before we understand the ‘game’ and energy flow, there is most likely a nonchalant woman somewhere, going about her daily life and not giving a toss, whom he is chasing with all his vigor, even if she has a bf…I am letting that sink in this morning lol!!



  41.  #41Elsie on March 27, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Silver,

    I completely agree with Zia and the other girls. You need to re-read Rori’s book.

    A man SHOWS you where his feet are pointed. When he truly cares about you, you dont HAVE to ask these questions, wonder, debate in your head, feel like your waiting, etc.

    Men have built pyramids, fought wars, created empires all to impress women. They are capable. If they are not, then they either dont want you, or incapable, and either way, a girl deserves more and you should move on.

    I understand there are connections here with your child, etc. I understand taht because I was in that situation.

    This is just my opinion. Please re-read Rori. Listen to what these girls are saying. Really listen. Re-read THIS POST from Rori. You can not be in a relationship alone.

    I”m so sorry you are going through this. I cringe because Ive done it. More than once. We’ve all been there. The trick is you HAVE TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE you are worth more than all of this – and its even better to be alone than to deal with all this noise (and trust me, it is better.)

    I dont know you. And I dont know him. But it seems to me that perhaps you deserve better, sweetie. 🙂



  42.  #42Elsie on March 27, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Kim. EXACTLY. Love this!!!! Its exactly how men feel! 🙂



  43.  #43Azure Blu on March 27, 2015 at 9:06 am

    and so, lovely Sirens,
    tonight is the 11 yr. anniversary of my late finances
    tragic death in a car accident…
    a man who showed ME unconditional love
    for the first time in my life…
    This LOVE changed my life forever…
    and so did his death…

    This year the extreme grief I have felt for years,
    seems to have released some of its grip…
    I am sure it is because of ALLL the self love, forgiveness, acceptance of MY Grief etc…
    I have learned from Rori AND here on Siren Island…

    Of course I curse and swear at the Universe off and on
    about how unfair She IS
    to have taken this wonderful man from all of us…

    Lots of things in life ARE unfair…
    this is one of them…

    I will sit with my soft, heart-wrenching GRIEF for the next few days and give her much love and compassion…
    Let her know that
    we can’t MAKE him come back…
    no matter how hard we try…
    and Maybe
    it will be better if we realize that!
    oxoxo



  44.  #44Kim on March 27, 2015 at 9:15 am

    ((((Azure)))) I can’t even imagine.
    I am so sorry for your loss, no matter how long ago, it’s just sooooooo sad.
    Yes, lots of things in life are unfair…and we have to deal with them, but again, I can’t imagine this!!!
    I am sure and I wish for you that you will once again find someone who will show you this (slightly amended from your own words 🙂 :
    ‘unconditional love
    for the second time in my life…
    This LOVE changed my life again…’

    I am thinking, maybe you can somehow celebrate his life and love and your love by doing something really great for YOU this evening, a treat..?!

    Much love to you!
    <3



  45.  #45Azure Blu on March 27, 2015 at 9:18 am

    Kimm…. thank you…
    Yes… I want to change this
    Flip this…
    to CELEBRATION…
    I have a beautiful heart shaped, silk flower wreath that I purchased a few years ago for him and have never
    put on his grave…
    I would like to do that…
    maybe today to celebrate our LOVE!!!



  46.  #46Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 9:20 am

    Kath, I am just freaking out a bit, the voices in my head are getting to me. We have had a long history, most of which he was gone, and when he came back he asked me to live with him twice, but didn’t understand why I couldn’t and gave up on me. Now we were talking about it again, when the chance to do so came up. I think part of it is that I feel it is vital not to let this opportunity slip by again, because the more times that happens I think the less likely we will be to get it together and do it. I could be with anyone, I just am not really feeling it. Everyone else is fun to me, but a waste of time, because they don’t want kids, don’t want what I want, aren’t determined and happy people.. and while women take children on as their own, most men will never love your child that way.
    So, yes in a way I am “wrapped up in it”, mainly just because as it has come up I’ve been thinking about it a lot. All that thinking. Has to stop. 😉

    Things have been steadily going well, and now I feel like he’s paused to absorb all this and that’s always hard for me. Any time a man pulls back is hard for me. I’ve learned to handle it VERY well, thanks to MILW. I could still improve.



  47.  #47Kim on March 27, 2015 at 9:31 am

    sounds like a lovely idea, Azure 🙂



  48.  #48Lovetodance on March 27, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Azure.
    I hear you and I feel your grief

    And desire to transform the grief

    I love Kim’s idea of doing something special ( and nurturing ) for yourself today

    And alsothe idea of placing the wreath on his grave site
    Sounds like a ritual in the making

    Sooo much love to YOU!



  49.  #49Silver-Tongued Siren on March 27, 2015 at 9:37 am

    But that’s why I’m “venting” it here instead of doing anything about it.

    Zia, Elsie, and everyone:
    I’m considering everyone’s suggestions, I promise. Thank you for taking the time to write me. It’s hard sometimes to present a clear picture sometimes over the internet. It’s just a subject that’s come up in the past few weeks, and I don’t want to just ASSUME that he doesn’t want to do it because he’s moving slowly and seems to be unsure of what to do.

    He clearly is not incapable, as he has asked me twice before but was basically turned down the first time, and felt turned down the second time and gave up on me.

    I do wonder, how he would react if I just completely go on without worrying what he thinks. I worry he would not understand it and feel hurt somehow.
    That is why we’re kind of at the point where I need to know what he wants to do — But I don’t want to pressure him… I feel like if I just get a place of my own he will probably just let that be, but I know he is considering all this, and I feel like that would also be making the decision for him, in a way, or something I can’t quite articulate. If I was thinking about something, and he came back to me and said “I just got a place by myself” I’d feel like “……Okay….. I guess he doesn’t want me around”. I’m not saying it should be like that, he should be more reach out and TAKE it but, that’s just not who he is, he’s more slow moving, cautious, think it through, and doesn’t really share anything until he’s made a decision, in my experience. I’ll think about this some more today while I’m at work.

    Dominique!:
    THANK you for the links, I was looking at words vs actions yesterday and am going to look at them both again today. I know your man is also kind of non-communicative. I appreciate your understanding of that. They just work in a different way. He says “I love you” or “I miss you”, to me, sometimes, but you know HOW many times I’ve heard that, in 13 years, or in the 4 years since he’s started saying I love you? I could count them on two hands I bet. But like you, I SEE that he says these things with the way he is when he’s with me. I also know that he focuses on one thing at a time, esp being that he is an aries, and they typically focus on work, relationship, home, one at a time, and right now he is feeling a lot of discouragement that he hasn’t accomplished anything by his age, with his birthday coming up, as well as that he is NOT making enough money at all, is having trouble paying the bills.
    This is why I want to let him know I’m not depending on him financially. I will pay half the rent, help with food, etc. I have no problem doing that. Does anyone think that’s a problem?

    I know some women would not want to do that – I am curious, of those of you who live with a man right now, what do you do? (Or if you lived with one before).

    INDIGO – Thank you for understanding a man being non-communicative. And Yes, I will come up with a plan either way.

    Azure – I am sorry for your loss. I understand as my husband of several years many years ago also passed away, in an accident. It’s always hard. Do you have dreams of him?



  50.  #50Kath on March 27, 2015 at 9:54 am

    (((Azure))))

    Ok Sirens, I got a response to my text- flipping heck did I get a response!- Remember this is a text and it says:
    “Your text was unexpected and it has thrown me, was not expecting that at all, not sure what to say or do. I have known her for 9yrs and I know what she is and what people think, her friendship and companionship has never let me down. She has always been there when I needed a shoulder to lean on. She is not and never will be relationship material. I have a loyalty to her because she has not let me down when I needed help or company. I am not going to drop her friendship again because of your views. If you can’t find a way to deal with this then we are not going to have a good relationship and it will soon descend into the way it was last year and we both do not need or want that. Have a think and we can try to work it out xxx”.
    Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- HELP!!!-What the F do I say to that!??!!



  51.  #51Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Kath he is being honest. The question is were you?

    Also he is putting the ball back in your court. It is your choice to make if you want to move forward. He is telling you she is important to him. This might change as you two move forward together but what he is saying is that he is not planning the change right now.



  52.  #52Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:06 am

    FW,

    I wasn’t asking him to make a choice!- I asked him for help in dealing with the friendship because it made me feel wierd and uncomfortable and yes- that is the truth. I want a chance to say that I won’t mention her name ever again and I will be civil when I speak to her but I don’t want her in my house and I don’t want her being included as one of the family!- is that so unfair of me??



  53.  #53Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:10 am

    I suppose what I’m trying to say is that for all those 9yrs he has known her he has had 3 girlfriends and apart from one, who hated this woman too, the others all went out as a drinking group and included her- she is always there whenever a party is mentioned or anything relating to having a good time- but she never pays!!!- He pays for everything- that is the bit that really grates on me. Its like he is paying for her friendship, companionship and loyalty. However, my mistake was to point that out to him repeatedly and it drove a wedge between us. This time I won’t do that- I accept he wants her as a friend but it doesn’t mean that she has to be one of mine does it!!???



  54.  #54Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 10:13 am

    “Have a think and we can try to work it out”

    This could mean that you share honestly how you feel. Also look for a third way that you could navigate this rocky road. Does he really have to drop her as a friend because of you? Or can you make some kind of commitment with him where he takes you along whenever he is going away like this with her.

    You see only you can decide what you are comfortable with or willing to tolerate. He is showing you that he is not going to just roll over and give you everything you want. In my opinion that is a good thing. Some men would suggest that they would give in to you but continue to sneak around behind your back. He is a grown man with his opinion and if you ask me he is showing maturity by sharing that with you.

    Other women will always be in men’s lives because we live in a world with other people. He could choose to drop her now especially if he has already decided that you are his forever and he feels content. I would hazard a guess that his response shows he is not there yet also. However, I would agree to give it a think and then we could discuss taking his opinion about what he wants to do around it also. If he dig in his heels and don’t want to negotiate then I’d say there is cause for concern. Right now I think it would be a good idea to lay down your arms and see what he comes up with. Just be mentally prepared to walk away from this relationship in case. You really don’t want to get into a power struggle because of this woman. I think it is significant that he mentions she is not relationship material.



  55.  #55Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 10:18 am

    Kath I remember one article with a similar situation from Rori. She suggested having the woman over and just keep repeating to him how uncomfortable you feel with the woman in your house. She encouraged the writer to take her focus off of what the man was doing and just focus on how she felt. Him spending his money on her is actually his choice for whatever reason and he might see it as controlling if you try to change that. Maybe even disrespectful. Maybe sitting with why him spending money her is so triggering to you might be more helpful. Is there some history in your past where an ex was spending on another woman instead of taking care of his responsibilities?



  56.  #56Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Hmm, I do agree with you FW- he has made it very clear before that she isn’t relationship material (they already tried that 9yrs ago!) but the interesting words for me in the latest text are “loyalty” “companionship” and that classic phrase “I know what she is and what people think”- My immediate reaction to that is then what the F are you doing having her as a friend??- BUT- I know there is no point in doing that anymore with him because he “needs” her in his life- for whatever reason-and I am going to have to swallow a huge pill to accept it- but that is what I am asking the Sirens- just how the hell do I accept that and not allow all those emotions and angered thoughts about her and how she is a parasite etc etc to seriously affect my relationship with him???- I do love him very much- and the last two weeks have been amazing but I know that there are plans with her coming up and I need to know how strong I need to be in order to give him confidence and faith in us- I HAVE TO BE STRONG FOR THE BOTH OF US- or am I reading that wrong?



  57.  #57Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Kath how about having compassion towards yourself so you can have some towards her as woman regardless of where this relationship goes? You calling her a parasite is running her down in your mind and being judgemental. He is choosing to spend on her. It is his choice. Maybe you are making yourself invisible by not requiring more from him in that regard. Maybe there is something you can learn from her about keeping him attracted?



  58.  #58Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:31 am

    FW- Interesting thought-she came back into his life after he and I broke up and he started spending money on her again- a considerable amount of money it has to be said!- and yet we were talking the other night about our own relationship he said in the last few months he was “throwing money” at it because it didn’t feel right- So how do I rationalise that?



  59.  #59Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:46 am

    I have replied to him:
    “I didn’t fall in love with you because of friends or family-I fell in love with you. I fell in love with how you make me feel when things are great between us and that is what I want again, all the good things”.
    I am at peace.



  60.  #60Elsie on March 27, 2015 at 10:50 am

    ((Azure))) I”m so sorry sweetie.

    Kath – it doesnt matter what we think. Its how YOU FEEL. If you dont like her, dont want her around, thats enough. YOU MATTER. YOUR FEELINGS MATTER. You dont have to justify them, or explain them. If they are not the ramblings of a lunatic, and just how you feel, then you are entitled to them. He can be friends with her, and you can decide not to date him anymore. That simple. If he thinks more of her friendship and would be willing to drop you for that, then I think thats your answer, no two ways around it, unfortunately. People arent good or bad, they just live their lives different ways. You need to find someone with a way to live his life that you feel comfortable with, thats all.



  61.  #61Kath on March 27, 2015 at 10:56 am

    Elsie, Thank you!- I know I;m doing it again- looking for justification in how I feel- that I’m right to feel the way I do!- It doesn’t change!- I am not alone in how I feel about her- but he still wants her as a friend and his text whilst sounding as though he wants me in his life-he still wants her- but the two of us are just not going to mix at all- She gives off such a negative, bad bad vibe that I can’t bear to be around her- other people have said the same. If he and I are going to try again-his friendship with her will have to be totally seperate and seeing as he has introduced her to all of his siblings and they all share the biker dream then he will be leading two seperate lives- one being the biker and one being the family man- in essence, just as he has always done-only this girlfriend-partner isn’t going to adopt that lifestyle as well because she isn’t interested in the slightest in being a biker chick!



  62.  #62Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 11:51 am

    Kath here is an excerpt from a past Rori post

    “And then there’s this attitude we women are taught to have that just WRECKS our self-confidence and sense of inner peace (which is crucial to our well-being and attractiveness to men in general):

    It’s the thought that: He owes me an explanation.

    Here’s the truth:

    He owes you nothing. Nothing.

    His job is to do what he does.

    Your job is to see if what he does is what you want.

    What he needs to demonstrate in some way is his ability to do relationship.”



  63.  #63Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    Axure Blu – 40 – Sending you BIG hugs and lots of love sweet goddess.

    xxoo



  64.  #64Kath on March 27, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    FW- YES! that’s it!- thank you!- “What he needs to demonstrate in some way is his ability to do relationship”- that is what I am looking for. Evidence of that- I know him now but it was essentially four years without this woman in his life- now he wants her back in it whilst he’s having a relationship with me- hmm. Can he do it?-can he give me what I need?- Only time will tell that one- no amount of me talking with him will give me that answer!- actions speak louder and all that.
    Thank you for being so fabulously insightful and for challenging me to see another perspective- I love that xx



  65.  #65Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Kath – Though I can understand how painful this feels and how difficult, maybe impossible to deal with, really you need to decide and not necessarily right away – is this a deal breaker – or can you love and accept him exactly as he is even if nothing ever changes. Even with this woman in the picture.

    And if the answer is no, yes there are ways to negotiate to make things feel more comfortable for you.

    Yet the more you can let this go, truly let it go, and look at it as an opportunity to heal some old stuff inside instead, the more likely it is, she will fade away all on her own with no help from you at all – or he will over time stop seeing her, again with no prodding from you.

    This may take time though, and you can’t be looking for this as a guaranteed this will happen thing. For then you wouldn’t be loving and accepting him.

    So try bringing things back to you. Ponder on this, meditate on it, sleep on it. FEEL into it and deeply if you can.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  66.  #66Mandy on March 27, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    J and I had a wide-open discussion last night and there’s fear in his heart that he cannot be “fixed”. He fears that he needs to let me go so that someone else can meet my needs. He believes he is protecting me from sex, because he loves me deeply and it’s almost like when he gets a girlfriend, they turn into almost a sister to him. So he can’t go there – he has this cave-man inside him that he fears, as he’s protecting me even from his own self!

    It made perfect sense. He was a little nervous as he spoke, but it was obvious he wanted to open up. So I helped it along a bit. He says that’s happened in every one of his relationships, they go wrong because he cannot touch his beloved, as he fears she needs to be protected from the “nastiness” that is sex to him.

    Why is that the sweetest thing I’ve ever heard? He keeps listening to this song called “Wise Up, Sucker” and it’s about a guy who feels he isn’t what this one wonderful girl needs, and he’s banging his head against this emotional wall trying to make something happen to keep her.

    Ladies…I want all this he’s giving. I want all the answers, the emotion, the honesty, even seeing him go into an emotional thing because he’s really worried about losing me. I needed to see this stuff. He wouldn’t show it to me, but then he did last night. He never ever opens up and shows that vulnerability, but he’s scared as hell! Just terrified!

    But I feel the same way, I protect him from my own sex!!! I feel like he will feel molested or something. So essentially, we’re turning ourselves inside out trying to protect each other from SEX! BOTH of us, ME too!!! I KNEW I was mirroring him somehow!

    This is nuts, it’s like it was staring me in the face. How could I have been so blinded by emotion? The answers are so obvious, you know? I think that J’s instinct to protect me from sex is the way he knows how to love a woman, and so we would learn to cultivate the feelings necessary to make intimacy. I believe this would work by using the technique where he is exposed to it little by little, like we hold hands and kiss, and see how he feels, then, if he feels good, we move onto second, and see how he feels, etc.

    But we did it all by ourselves, no help, no therapist, I just went out on a huge limb and asked two questions that had been burning inside me, about going to first and second base, and then about porn, and so he opened up nervously and I was able to have some answers about why our sex life is so elusive.

    Now that I have clarity, I can make some judgements am the type that if I am allowed to, I’ll stick around forever, just like my mom and dad stick together.

    So here’s the scary question. What sounds better, monogamy with J, or having options and circular dating and getting all my needs met?

    Burning question. My psychiatrist as well as many Sirens have told me to meditate on it and not freak out.

    But it was SO cool when J picked up the phone and looked up psychiatry for himself! Holy smokes Sirens I felt like the most important thing in the world to him! He has really seriously been stepping up. I believe I sense the urgency inside him now, to do what he needs to do as a man to keep me.

    AH. I need to write this down. March 21 2015, 3 year anniversary, I wrote him a Love Script, saying that I couldn’t really go without sex. It’s detrimental to my psyche, and i love him and I think he’s wonderful so I think we should seek help, and he really actually smiled at me after I wrote it to him. It was like he’d gotten a love letter. But I realize ALL this time, the pain I’ve been feeling is because we haven’t been communicating and all this time I thought it was the lack of him actually physically touching me. It’s like when there’s no communication I feel like I’m lying to him and essentially I am because I’m acting like everything’s okay when I am actually angry on the inside and that makes me feel like a bad person. J and I were raised with protestant standards of living and high moral values, so that makes very much sense.

    Wow, wow and wow. Love Scripts….huge change…

    Huge!!!!!



  67.  #67Kath on March 27, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    Dominique,

    Thank you!- your wise words have, as always, made me slow down and sit a while and just be with the feelings. I can now hear the frustration in his words to me and I don’t want to make him feel worse- I will resolve to not make him feel bad and to not feel bad about their friendship- it means nothing to me and is no threat to me. I am indifferent to it- xxx



  68.  #68Azure Blu on March 27, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    {{{{Mandy!!!}}}}
    You sooo deserve THIS!!!
    Sooo happy for you and j’s breakthrough…
    Yes, Time for celebration!!



  69.  #69Azure Blu on March 27, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Thank you EVERYONE here
    on Siren Island for your loving thoughts and huggss!!
    Means the world to me!



  70.  #70April Rose on March 27, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Dominique,

    Thank you for the reminder to love and accept a man for exactly who he is.

    I am struggling today. I have learnt so much from Rori and you and the sirens here. And yet.. something is feeding a dissatisfaction. Things that may never have bothered me before suddenly seem to be triggers.
    For example, him asking to phone me. Him taking us to a cheap cafe (he is not poor).

    Do I need to drop the thought “I deserve more” and accept what he offers?



  71.  #71April Rose on March 27, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    I meant him asking me to phone him.



  72.  #72Femininewoman on March 27, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    April I know you addressed Dominique but I just wanted to share that for me “deserve” have a vibe of entitlement. It takes away the other persons choice and like it is loaded with expectation. So for me I prefer to maintain “I am worthy” in my psyche so my vibe radiates from that. It kind of helps suggests to me that this is how I value myself as opposed to “he is supposed to” because I deserve it. With I am worthy I find it easier to drop the expectations and more focus my mind on being curious about myself.



  73.  #73April Rose on March 27, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Ooh, I like that, Femininewoman. Thank you.

    Your words open soft wings around my heart and a feel a warm expansive breeze.

    I am worthy. I like that. When I hold to that thought, it doesn’t matter that I am sitting in a cheap cafe. I know that I can make myself rich and take myself to gorgeous restaurants if I want to.

    I am learning to enjoy his company, firstly. Even though my inner girl just loves nice surroundings and the best coffee. Some men don’t really notice that kind of thing.



  74.  #74Liquid Light on March 27, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    AR, why are you compromising on what you want? that’s what it sounds like, kind of lowering your expectations but just wondering why? I feel the same way that you do, and want to go to nice places and drink the best coffee too. 😉 It’s nothing to be ashamed of, it just what I want. And I’m not willing to compromise on that. I pretty much don’t go out with anyone who doesn’t have that same desire.



  75.  #75Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    April Rose – Remember too there are ways to encourage more of what you would prefer by first of all letting him know how much you love it when he does do something which you enjoy. A second approach would be to maybe say for example – it would feel so good to try ….. café which I hear feels so lovely inside/has yummy food/drinks. (or a restaurant you’ve been wanting to go to.)

    I tend to prefer encouraging more of what you like by reinforcing what he does already, yet the other way is a good one too. Either way you’re not criticizing him or making him wrong, simply expressing what you imagine would feel better to you.

    And remember you get to choose every step of the way if this is okay feeling or not.

    xxoo



  76.  #76Dominique on March 27, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    April Rose – 70 – 🙂 Oh yes.

    Femininewoman -I love what you said.

    xxoo



  77.  #77Beloved on March 27, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Mandy – CDing isn’t an “either/or” situation. You can be monogamous with J, and still CD. It just means, you make eye contact and share FM’s with people you meet out in the world, and practice keeping your heart unzippered. It sounds like you and J have made a tremendous breakthrough, and I would so love to see the two of you grow into a relationship together that is mutually satisfying and fulfilling! Big hugs to you – I love the way your sparkling heart always shines through in what you share! <3



  78.  #78Beloved on March 27, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    Why Every Woman (Even Married Ones) Should Date Other People
    By Rori Raye
    http://www.yourtango.com/experts/rori-raye/why-every-woman-even-married-ones-me-should-date-lot

    If you feel like your man is growing distant, there’s a surefire way to bring him back again.
    I hear it from so many women all too often…

    You’re with a man who does it all for you. He meshes his life with yours, calls you his girlfriend, gives you a good amount of time and energy, but then, after you’ve been together maybe a year or so, it suddenly seems like he’s beginning to “fade,” slip away or grow cold. You feel he’s not so sure about your relationship. Other parts of his life (his job, his friends, travel, even other women) are taking away from your time with him.

    Before you know it, you find yourself asking — what happened here? Did something change? And that’s when all of our insecurities really begin to have their way with us. We begin questioning everything we’ve done, even who we are as a woman. We start blaming ourselves for his pulling away. If all this sounds familiar, I want you to know there’s something you can do about it….

    My Most Powerful Tool For Turning Things Around In Love Is Called “Circular Dating”. Here’s How it Works:

    First of all, you need to know that Circular Dating does NOT necessarily mean actually going out and “dating” men. In fact, it usually has absolutely nothing to do with finding your right man (although that’s the way it often ends up working out). Although, for some women, it can involve dating as many men as possible at the same time (without giving any one more attention, access, time or energy than any other) here’s what Circular Dating IS really all about:

    Circular Dating is about drawing the man you want close again with new self-confidence and a higher “degree of difficulty” that he can’t ignore or resist. It can mean getting out there and just flirting. It can mean going to classes, being “social,” or doing the things in public that you used to do when you were more open to meeting new men. It can simply mean “hanging out” where men are.

    The most important part of it is the attitude … using Circular Dating as “free therapy” instead of as a “fishing pole” for men. It’s also an honest, straightforward opportunity for you to feel great and stay sane while you’re giving a man time to show you who he really is, and what he really wants. The moment we close down all of our options in men and start staring ONE man in the face 100% of the time — that’s when things get dicey emotionally. That’s why the whole idea of Circular Dating is to get out in public and talk to other men. Interact with them while using my other tools (I’d especially like you to check out my “Feeling Messages” and “The Dance Position” tools to help you) to retrain your mind, your heart, your body to just BE.

    And if you think that “just being” is easy — think again. In fact – DON’T think! Thinking is actually the opposite of being. Just BEING enables us to interact with every man, woman and child that we meet (I say “we” because, though I’ve been happily married for over 20 years, I still Circular Date all the time) in a new way that allows you to become irresistibly ATTRACTIVE. And that’s really why Circular Dating is really so awesome. It’s all about helping us get our act together in love, and doing it FAST.

    The Big Fear So Many Women Ask Me About

    Not surprisingly, Circular Dating goes against everything many women naturally believe about relationships. We’ve have been taught since childhood to believe that becoming a man’s “girlfriend” and being exclusive naturally leads to a long-term, committed relationship. This is a total lie! The truth is, the moment a woman makes a man the center of her world is the moment he starts to feel less romantic about you. It’s a demonstration of weakness and lack of self-respect to him.

    So remember: becoming exclusive with a man does not automatically lead to lasting love and commitment. Know what will? Keeping your options open and focusing on what YOU need in love. After that, if a man you really like gets back in the game in a big way and proves himself over time (let’s say three to four months) then you’ll know he means business in terms of long-term commitment and life partnership. But he’s got to make that plain and clear. You deserve at least that much. When he does, you can stop Circular Dating (well, you stop actually “dating” only in the traditional sense, because Circular Dating never, ever stops — no matter how long you’ve been in a relationship or marriage) and throw your lot in with this devoted man.

    So remember…Circular Dating doesn’t cause risk — it LIMITS risk. It reduces it. That’s why I am so firm about it and uncompromising about Circular Dating.

    How about you? Will you choose to take the first step and learn more? Will you try it? And, when you do, what kind of life-changing results will you get?

    Let me know! I’d love to hear from you.



  79.  #79IamHIs on March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    I feel kind of embarrassed to write about this.

    Those of you who have been reading me know that I’ve been experiencing extreme anxiety at work.

    and although it’s been really scary and vulnerable and embarrassing, I’ve just been trying to let myself feel at work…which isn’t always…how should I put it? Timed correctly? Feminine energy is not always appreciated in a masculine work environment.

    But, truthfully? I think it is, in a way. It’s like, suddenly the robots become human again, which gives a new creativity to the entire environment, if that makes sense.

    When people feel free to be authentic, they feel free to create, lead, and explore. Solutions are made, and new ideas flourish.

    I’m fairly new to the whole business scene, but this is my theory.

    so, I had my panic attack. and I talked to a new therapist that very night about it, and was able to honor my feelings and experiences and recognize that I’ve experienced traumas, even though seemingly minor, collectively, they were enough to cause my panic.

    It felt good to have that acknowledged.

    I’ve noticed some of the men looking at me differently and treating me differently, more gently, and like, REALLY looking at me, which feels kind of scary to be honest.

    I saw this guy who I kind of judged to be a robot…I don’t know…he just seemed to melt after my little incident and turn into this person who makes eye contact and shows concern and other emotions…and that feels amazing and a little scary to witness and a little “wow, where did this human/former robot come from?”

    and I got to interact with another guy, who, while not present during my meltdown, I had noticed previously because I just noticed how fast and diligent and hard he works.

    and we got to small talk today and he’s just really cool.

    but Tim Tebow? QB?

    I wrote about him before, don’t know if anyone’s been following.

    He really responded to my nervousness. Kept coming around, standing near me, standing above me, encircling me with his arms without touching me, gently grabbing my waist to move me aside, constantly accidentally touching me, which I guess constantly accidentally touching is an oxymoron, but wow, there is something about him that triggers me deeply.

    I hadn’t seen him in almost two weeks due to differing shifts and then he just shows up…and I just felt so thrilled and insanely nervous…

    but my shift was up and I was exhausted, so I ended up leaving pretty soon after he arrived…

    and women are responding to me differently too, in a good way. They are reaching out to me for friendship, and that feels so good. I have a really hard time with women sometimes, and since so many of my old friends have married, it seriously feels so exciting to get new girlfriends!

    I just feel really thankful right now…I feel peaceful…I feel quietly excited about getting into a routine and getting more financially stable and trying new things and meeting new people…it’s all slowly unfolding…like a brand new chapter…



  80.  #80Kim on March 27, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    I just had the most surreal,crazy and unexpected evening and I need help lol.
    I had a brief intense affair with a musician when I was working on cruise ships 8 years ago…we just instantly clicked….intellectually, physically….crazy sparks and crazy chemistry. He was married and when I found out it was when the sexual part of it ended…typocal story, married too soon actually married to get the girl the greencard but they are still married, she has threatened to kill herself if he ever walks out bla bla…plus he is a good guy actually..
    Anyhow. I never heard from him again but we remained fb friends. Never heard a word in 8 years….today I get a message, would I like to watch him play with a band in the city I live in..ladies, I nearly had a cardiac arrest.
    I didn’t even think he remembered me.
    Of course I went, comp tickets (for me and a friend..brilliant, brilliant show, amazing). So at the end, we meet after 8 years….and it’s the same electrifying, sweet, emotional and chemical thing we had way back then, it’s like out eyes lock and that’s it.
    Crazy.
    Anyway, so we were all courteous etc….hugging and then I left with my friend.
    Now I see a message..he wants to arrange to meet me, he has Monday off..said he couldn’t believe how amazing it was to see me, I had not changed, bla bla….he wouod love to slend more time with me..hinting at naughty stuff subtly….lol.
    I have no intent on starting this affair back up.
    At all.
    I would love to see him again though….so I dunno…I might just write back that I am dating someone but would be happy to see him for the day and spend a day at the beach…hmmmm..thoughts?
    ….it’s thrown me a bit. A lot of men from my past ar suddenly reappearing, my old bf, this guy…weird!



  81.  #81Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 12:57 am

    I’ve been thinking about things some more.

    Here’s the thing. Currently, MILW and I are separated. Due to bipolar issues/behaviors. MILW and I have had a relationship and family for years. A while into our relationship, MILW tried to be with someone else- and I left him. That was it, I was done. Avocado was visiting. I visited with him once or twice. Later MILW wanted me to come home, AND I found out I was pregnant. MILW, Avocado and I, all figured the baby was with MILW. Avocado had no feelings for me anyway, nor did he want children, and he must have freaked out a little until he decided it wasn’t very likely to be his child at all. He was out of the country anyway and had been out of the state for the past 5 years. He just came to visit me whenever he was here.

    We did a test after the baby was born, finding that the test matched Avocado. MILW was devastated, and Avocado didn’t speak to me for a week. Then he realized he was happy about it. MILW and I wanted to include Avocado in our lives. When our child was 6 months old, he moved back to our state, (but spent most of the next few years 1-3 hours away). During that time he fell in love with me, but mind you, I was living with MILW. Avocado would come visit and stay at our house, we would sleep in the same bed, (Yes, MILW did not mind, he would suggest it, tho other times I think he did get anxious) and sometimes, mostly when MILW was having a bipolar episode/acting out/leaving me for a two week vacation alone, etc, Avocado and I would sleep together.

    He asked me to move in with him, and I said no, I couldn’t hurt my family by leaving them like that, and also because of financial issues (breastfeeding 24/7 a baby didn’t leave time to work, (and driving our child was impossible due to crying the entire time in the car) and the places where he chose to live… were in the middle of nowhere, literally, where there was no work for me.) He offered to get me work with a relative but that required two hours of driving a day, watching our child/breastfeeding our child AND trying to work a full time job. I mentioned my concerns to him, but got no response, probably because part of my reason was that I didn’t want to leave/hurt the people I was with. He said later he would have helped make it work, but there really was nothing he could’ve done. Other than move us somewhere closer to work he didn’t want, to provide for us, but he wasn’t doing that.

    He asked me again sometime later, and although I still love MILW, I gave it a thought as MILW was on another bipolar trip at the time, (tho I was pretty lost as to the cause of his behavior, back then). I again had to turn down, as he had moved to another place in the middle of nowhere, a tiny town, where there is nothing in my profession at all. He asked me to come visit him there and I had to delay it for a month or two as I was working for MILW to help pay bills, and had a long term project to finish. Due to MILW’s demeanor at the time, it would have been unwise of me to not do the work he had given me, as he was unsatisfied with my income, and made irrational demands (seeing as how I was sleep deprived and breastfeeding constantly, and just trying to feed myself the rest of the time, lol. AND working/looking for work. AND doing whatever he needed me to do for the family.)
    So to not finish the project, or to move without having more financial help, would have been jumping out of the frying pan into the fire and putting myself and our child in a bad position, if things didn’t work out with Avocado, and then I had nowhere to go, no way to support us. By the time I came to visit (and he had still asked me to ONE week previous!), he changed his mind, acted like there was no room for me, he didn’t seem to want me there, he had been seeing someone else (I saw receipts from a valentines dinner), and basically he said I didn’t come and he had given up.

    Our child also had MILW last name. It turns out that children actually carry the DNA of your previous partner as well as your current partner, however, We believed that it was likely this was entirely our child, based on frequency of sex. We went through the pregnancy, (despite some very extreme behavior during those 9 months) he took care of me and care of everything, paid out of pocket for our birth, delivered the baby.

    Apparently, Avocado had a lot of feelings he never communicated. He shared, (much later on) that the first time he met MILW and the baby and I all together, we seemed like an established family (which we were), and he felt unneeded. I remember him opening up one night and actually crying about some things. 🙁

    He came to visit every 3-4 wks.. and apparently eventually fell in love with me, and eventually he got angry that I wanted to compromise about our childs name but he wanted to change the name altogether. Very resentful of MILW, even tho MILW has always been very kind, embracing, accomodating, and always giving us private time with each other and the baby.

    Avocado ended up taking us to court, (because I wouldn’t change the name entirely), and was very vengeful and shut down. For a while was very cold, but we have warmed up a LOT the last two years. It took a lot of work. We started seeing each other last year, and then again this year. We stopped last year because he started seeing someone else at the same time he started seeing me and decided he wanted to move forward with her, and basically said he had given up on us entirely,– I asked him why we were seeing each other then? He must have had some hope? And he seemed to agree. But still had already made up his mind.

    Now he is back.

    What’s bothering me, about this whole living together thing, is that it was all too complex before. And if it gets put off another time when we have the opportunity to do it, I think it will just be discouraging to both of us. I almost feel as though I should just stay with him and see how it goes. But that depends on how he feels about it, which hopefully he is planning to share with me the beginning of next week.

    I have spent the evening putting myself in his shoes for a while, Not that I haven’t before, I have..
    But really, really, putting myself in his shoes tonight.
    Fully empathizing and not invalidating anything.

    It’s no one’s fault, and we all did the best we could, and we have all done amazing. Truly, I know very few people who could have made it through this as easily as we all have, tho I speak mostly for MILW and I, because I think it has been much harder for Avocado.

    All we’ve gone through in this situation has been very painful for him, more so than he has let on, and when he did it was very intense anger. Not explosive, just shut down and vengeful.


    I feel .. like we were very happy at one time, in the beginning of all this. We were both in love and said so. But, my not moving with him when he opened up and reached out.. despite my good reasons not to.. really hurt him. Even though he didn’t tell me so.

    He reached out twice and I turned him down.

    He gave up on me.

    Now, how do I fix this? That was 3 years ago.
    We have made HUGE progress, as we are back to being warm and friendly and easy and relaxed, and having sex also.

    He knows I want to be together. It may be leaning forward, but I feel that somehow I need to communicate that if we were together, this family is ALL that matters. I am willing to make changes that would make him feel better.. regarding MILW and our child, etc. I know loyalty and being on each others side always, is important to him. I feel he does not think I am loyal, he feels I have put him through a lot of pain and honestly? While we all did the best we could, and tried to do this all together, still, I do see how being in love with me and suddenly having dreams of having a family, and all the things we could do, it must have been extremely painful for him to sit there and watch me, for years, go on having a relationship with MILW, living with him, with the child we happened to have, and not feeling as much part of things as he would have liked. He also has some idea that I stayed with MILW because he had money. NOT true at all, but that’s how he feels.

    This is a situation different than most, and I feel that something needs to happen to instill his confidence in me, his trust in me, .. I feel like I should apologize for all the pain I’ve caused, despite how loving and inclusive MILW and I were, it was still too painful for him, and I feel like I should let him know I feel that and am sorry for that..

    At this point I am truly ready to try to do this together, and want him to know that I’m open to hearing anything that would make him feel good AND that I am willing to make changes to make this work.

    Because I sense this has a lot to do with our separation and I don’t think this is going to happen unless I find some way to meet this pain that separated us.

    He is clearly still attracted to me.
    The other night I said “I figure if you can keep my attention for 13 years, it must be good…..”
    He nodded, emphatically agreeing.
    He listens to the things I say and considers them.
    It just seems like something is holding him back that he isn’t articulating.

    I know this isn’t a situation any of you have ever been in.. and I know it may sound like I’m leaning forward a lot.. but I think *something* is needed here.

    Dominique, very interested in what you think about this as well.



  82.  #82Kath on March 28, 2015 at 1:30 am

    Silver,

    Thank you for sharing your story-It is great that you feel you know what you want and how you want things to pan out. But it doesn’t sound as though your man is in the same place as you. I soo understand when you say you feel something has to happen and you have to do something to help it along. But, really, honestly darling Siren, you don’t have to do anything- it is not your responsibility or your right to do anything to make anyone else feel anything or do anything to make your story progress the way you want it to and at your speed.
    I think that is the most powerful message that I get from what you’ve said-you are both not working at the same speed. You need to stop waiting for this man and take a deep breath, tell him how you feel, share your dream and leave it with him. Then move on-if he figures out he wants you and the same dream, he will let you know, but in his time and I guess the question is-can you give him that time xxx



  83.  #83Kath on March 28, 2015 at 1:50 am

    I’ve sat with my ucky feelings for a couple of days now and I feel better today. Its been good to have time away from him to feel through it. The big question for me is will he be able to do a relationship with having a friend like her. The wonderful thing is, this is me looking to see if he can give me what I need- I know I can give him what he needs-he’s shown me that by the amount of things he changed and taken on board in the last six months and the fact that he kept saying that he wanted to show me and his daughter that he could do it!- THAT IS HUGE!- I need to show him that I accept him for who he is-I fell in love with the kind wonderful man who will help anybody-but I feel protective of him too because he doesn’t see people using him. So my job, should he allow me to take it-is to see in the next few months whether we can work or whether I have to accept once and for all that he is not the man for me no matter how much love there is between us, tough tough tough-walking away from someone you love but you know isn’t right.



  84.  #84Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 2:08 am

    Thanks Kath.
    Actually, I do not see that as “doing something to help it along.”, and I do feel that it is my responsibility to do something if I have affected someone else’s feelings. I feel that this has been a big deal between us and has not yet been fully addressed. Rori says to apologize when it’s needed. I didn’t do anything “wrong”, but pain was caused. He felt rejected, unneeded, resentful, angry, and he feels it is my fault.
    I feel it would be a good thing to empathize and show willingness to change things that have been upsetting him.

    I’m not so sure he’s not in the same space. He’s shown interest in finding a place. Tho he seems to have fallen a bit on the quiet/hesitant side this week. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t want this or that. It just means he’s thinking about things.
    That doesn’t mean it WILL HAPPEN at the moment, Yet, I sense that he’s very fully considering it, all the while has things tugging at him from other directions (other women, worries about money/work, depression about not accomplishing anything and wanting to focus on that).

    But yes, I feel like maybe I need to express some things to him that I hadn’t considered before, and that he is not articulating, that I sense may be between us and may just need to be said.



  85.  #85Kath on March 28, 2015 at 4:16 am

    (((Silver)))- 🙂 xx



  86.  #86Indigo on March 28, 2015 at 4:34 am

    Kath,

    I can personally vouch for what Dominique has said in 62, because, as I mentioned in an earlier post, this has happened with not one, but three of D’s female friends with whom I felt uncomfortable.

    They brought ALL my yuck rushing to the surface, and for a long time, I was so insecure and uncomfortable I could hardly breathe. I did share my feelings with him – and I encourage you to do that because you DO matter, and your feelings do matter – but mostly I used it as an opportunity to let all my insecurities move around inside me. I really looked at them from every angle, felt all my feelings, which truth be told were mostly to do with unworthiness, and eventually I was able to get to a point where I did not feel inferior to these women at all. And yes, I was able to look on them with kindness and compassion. Do you think you could do the same? Think about it. He’s with you. He’s chosen you. This poor woman feels relegated to trying to get attention by being friends, and by getting her worth from having her drinks paid for her, whilst you have the real thing.

    As I said, I can vouch for what Dominique said because in my case these three women faded away completely the more I was able to be at peace. The one girl was the singer in D’s band, and she left the band, the band broke up and she moved away. The other moved to a city far away and has no more contact with him. The third had a fallout with him and emigrated to another country. I had nothing to do with any of these women leaving his life. In fact, it all happened at around about the time that I had decided to let it go. You could call it a coincidence, but I don’t think it was.



  87.  #87Kath on March 28, 2015 at 4:49 am

    Hi Indigo,
    You’re absolutely right, I have to let it go and that is what I have chosen to do. I have been through my ucky feelings and I felt horrible-but now I am out the other side, I have my power back. To clarify though, it wasn’t that I felt unworthy-far from it!- but what I had problems with understanding before was that I need to have my inner power, my inner strength working for me and not lash out at him and keep telling him he’s wrong. He said something in his incredibly long text response to me which hit home “I have as loyalty to her because she has never let me down”. I can completely understand what he means by that- the only difference is that I would add on to that- of course she won’t let you down darling because you keep offering to pay her for her loyalty and companionship!- But I am over that now. No matter how uncomfortably that sits with me it is his choice and I can’t take away his choice.
    He has chosen to be with me-he wants to be with me- he wants the “good” me-so that is what he is going to get, in bucket fulls 🙂



  88.  #88Indigo on March 28, 2015 at 6:06 am

    Kath,

    I feel very happy that you have found some peace with this. It took me a lot longer.

    I wish you luck.



  89.  #89Indigo on March 28, 2015 at 6:07 am

    ((((Azure Blu))))



  90.  #90Kath on March 28, 2015 at 6:32 am

    Indigo,
    At the end of the day I made merry hell before by pointing out where I thought he was going wrong. But now I know him better, and I know I don’t have to say yes to everything in order to make him feel good. It is about what makes me feel good too- and what makes me and him feel good is sharing together, being together, laughing together, being on the same wavelength together-and if he can see that as important then that is what we need to build on. Not whether I can’t stand one of his few friends and whether I think she takes the piss, not whether I think she is no good for him- because at the end of the day-he chose that friendship and has stuck with it even though a lot (and I do mean a lot!) of people don’t like her and don’t see what he sees in her. That does show his loyalty to the nth degree!- he stayed in a marriage well past its sell by date for the same reason- and I have done the same too. What is different now is that I don’t have to do that and neither does he, so if it transpires that we can’t be together because he doesn’t make me feel special then its our loss-but at least we tried.



  91.  #91Femininewoman on March 28, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Kath remember your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness. He might be loyal to a fault but it is something you can find a way to complement so he naturally transfers that level of loyalty to fighting for the relationship. I’d find a way to weave in “because this relationship is important to me” in my speeches to him if I were you.



  92.  #92Kim on March 28, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Kath, also, you don’t have to tolerate things that make you feel bad…depending on how much you get out of the relationship.
    I had a very bad episode, several, with my guy still being – in my mind – inappropriately attached to an ex..same kinda deal, she had him around her little finger, and he was willing to jump at a moments notice.
    This did not work for me. I told him so.
    Several times.
    It wasn’t a dealbreaker but close enough for me to know if it continues happening, I will put myself first and my feelings and exit out of it.
    She kinda faded away….I hope lol…and also, he communicated that no, he will not be pet sitting for her anymore etc etc. Good. I feel like it’s no longer an issue. It can resurface, sure, but he communicated and also acted out on the fact that my happiness is more important to him than this attachment…
    It took a while but it can happen.
    I believe that if a man digs his heels in and does things that he knows will make you feel bad, he can’t be that great for me…sure, I can always bring everything back to me and my insecurities, bla…sure, if a guy cheats to me I can also bring that back to me…but I choose to see it like this: I have a choice to be with someone who makes me feel good and together we can overcome those things.
    I would not choose to be with a guy who would say: so it makes you feel bad, tough sh*t, you have to get used to it.

    No thanks. I don’t have to get used to anything that makes me feel second best…I have two feet to walk away from the situation. I would give it some time and re-assess the situation..



  93.  #93Liquid Light on March 28, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Kim, maybe the Universe is bringing up these relationships from the past as a way for you to examine your relationship more closely? Just a random thought but I don’t think its all coincidence.

    Regarding the cruise guy, be careful, in his mind he’s likely thinking she did it once, she’ll do it again (have an affair with me).

    If I were you, I would ask myself: Why am I interested in seeing him again?



  94.  #94Kath on March 28, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Kim,

    I agree with Liquid Light-I hear an alarm bell ringing- its interesting that each time we are faced with a dilemma, the universe throws something else into the mix- a distraction?
    I only say this because having considered that whilst I do love him and want to see if we can be together-the friendship with other woman is an issue I have to deal with and I don’t really want to deal with it at all. He should want me completely and utterly and I know that I messed that up and have to rebuild his trust in me-but I lost trust in him too and he has admitted that he fueled my distrust in him-and I find that very unkind, no, a cruel thing to admit!
    So I am CDing-and I just came off the dating website I am a member of to find that I have a wonderful message from a guy who smiled at me a month ago. We’ve exchanged the set question stuff and he wanted to skip to emails. I accepted and read the most beautiful message!- He is on holiday in India and described what he saw last night and where he’d been and what he’d experienced and I was, well very flattered!- No need to feel down on myself!



  95.  #95Femininewoman on March 28, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Kim if I remember well, part of Rori’s thing is “choosing relationship”. These types of things always come up. I believe you posted something similar recently about another guy. One lesson is that attraction really doesn’t go away. Second, guys almost always come back so we really don’t need to do anything. Next in cases like these I ask myself how serious I am about my life. Do I allow guys to go in and out of my life as they like? Do I jump as soon as they snap their fingers after disappearing for how long? Am I content in my current relationship why I would consider taking off with someone else even briefly? Is there a pattern of this happening?

    The other thing is I imagine that he had you in a particular category in his mind back then. Obviously he had good memories so he is back. Question is do you want him to have you in the same category as maybe “girl to have a fling and fun with” or would you want that changed to “marriage material”. If so then in my opinion he would need time and experience to create that in his mind with you. What you had back then might be great for a younger girl as she experienced life. However, what is it that the woman you have blossomed into now want?



  96.  #96Kim on March 28, 2015 at 9:48 am

    93 FW ah, that’s a lot of questions…..I am just happy to see an old friend/date and trying to navigate it in such a way I don’t get tempted to start a little fling..but he is only coming down to spend a day socializing with me Monday, so I am probably not going to overthink this….he lives in Vegas anyway.



  97.  #97Kim on March 28, 2015 at 9:57 am

    It’s just CDing…catching up…I could chose to sit at home watching TV or reading a book, but I don’t have many friends and they are splattered all over the world, and it’s nice to catch up with an intelligent and sexy man and if anything, I think this will revive my own relationship….hello! We are supposed to CD and there is nothing better to take our focus away from our guy than spending some time with a male friend 🙂
    I don’t have to do anything I don’t want to, I am an adult. We’ll probably just end up grabbing lunch if it even happens…



  98.  #98Mistea1 on March 28, 2015 at 10:12 am

    {{{{{ Hugs to you all}}}}}}



  99.  #99Kim on March 28, 2015 at 10:12 am

    I have no intention of cheating on my partner at all…and I wont, but let’s just say we all came to this blog for a reason.
    I am not going to behave like a married woman until I am a married woman, that’s what got me into trouble and the guys into complacency in the first place, which is why I presumable had looooooong term relationships that never went anywhere. Overfunctioning, not dating other guys … Didn’t work for me actually.
    I spoke to my gf yesterday, she was married twice and the love of her life passed away a few years ago….I asked her would she think it was ok to meet him….and she said ‘you’re single, not married, you’re not going to sleep with this guy, of course you’re going to meet him….the alternative is what?
    Locking yourself away from other men and activities? That’s just ridiculous, your guy doesn’t do that either’
    The fact that we once had an affair – almost a decade ago…meh. I can control myself..I think lol.
    I just like to have fun, life is short.



  100.  #100Mistea1 on March 28, 2015 at 10:13 am

    {{{{{ Hugs to you all }}}}}}



  101.  #101Kim on March 28, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Kath, way to go…..btw, I do believe the one thing that has a tendency to resolve most relationship problems, in my experience, is to take the focus off the relationship for a little while and come back to yourself….whether it is CDing, or painting, walking, doing something we enjoy.
    I found that when I concentrate on me having a good time, i e me loving myself, most things seem to resol themselves, yes of course communication is needed too, but I notice how I am much more calm and happy and it is much easier to resolve things, or easier to move on or whatever when I love me.
    So for example, i had so so much fun last night at that concert…with my girlfriend….having been taken care of my guy friend in supplying us with the best tickets in the house, the other bandmembers stopping to take pics and chatting with us as they knew we were friends of his….lots of hugs and lots of dancing and fun…..when I spoke to MoM on the phone this morning, planning out the rest of our weekend, he practically fed off my happiness and booked us into a gorgeous restaurant for tonight, when normally we cook on Saturdays.
    He was infected by my gushy happiness…maybe a little jealous of the guy but he trusts me, and rightfully so.
    I have to admit I often get so wrapped up in things/relationship, that I focus on stuff I don’t like, including other women in his life, like you etc. I can tell you that by focusing away from it, taking eat care of me and having fun with other men too, the problem has almost completely healed itself. He understands now how it feels for me when he runs to his ex…and voluntarily dialed the whole thing down.
    I know this would never have happened if I had stayed focused on the relationship, the problem and him so much….taking a step away is so helpful…if that means CDing ( and the possibioity of finding someone better even ) that’s just great!
    I am all for that.



  102.  #102Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 10:48 am

    IamHis – 77 – This is so incredibly beautiful. <3

    xxoo



  103.  #103Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Kath – 92 – I just want to reiterate something which sometimes gets lost in the shuffle which is – though I encourage women to bring back to themselves – in all ways, eg. old stuff, current triggers, how you feel physically and emotionally in the moment having nothing to do with what’s at hand – YOU GET TO CHOOSE every step of the way. You get to decide if something which was once not a deal breaker now is, and so on.

    xxoo



  104.  #104Kim on March 28, 2015 at 11:35 am

    101 love that Dominique!



  105.  #105Kim on March 28, 2015 at 11:46 am

    Also, FW, Rori says choose relationship, but most importantly she says not to be exclcusive with a man unless you have the ring/relationship you want….and I take my life seriously enough to know what I want and I also want to have fun if I want to, with men in general.
    That’s my character. i could never be with a man who would lock me up. We agreed to sexual exclusivity, and I really don’t believe that means I need to stay home locked up when other men/ ex dates/ ex relationships/work colleagues ask me out and he hasn’t booked me for the evening, in fact I understand Rori promotes the exact opposite.
    Unless I misunderstood everything I read here for the past two years…
    I absolutely allow guys to come in and out of my life as they like….I wouldn’t dream of forcing a man to stay, neither would I dream of blocking everyone who asks me out (innocently or not, who’s to say)…Cause that would be the alternative…every human on earth does what they like, or prefer, and is up to me to choose what I take from it.
    In fact, you might find that the main man in one’s life also does what he likes, and will come in or out of your life as he likes…or stay….and it will be up to you what you take from it. I think every man has a message, or we can take something from everybody, and learn, whether it is just an afternoon at a tiki bar or a marriage of 30 years or longer.
    Nothing in life is so serious that I would not socialise anymore, and that includes previous dates or relationships as well as work colleagues or people in the stret…I think it will only happen when I am dead, frankly.



  106.  #106Kath on March 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Dominique- I love you!

    You always seem to know where I’m at even though I don’t necessarily say it or even think that’s where I’m at!- Its the choice I am having trouble with and I know that goes way way back in me. It is something I struggle with deeply-I know others will find it so easy but I can’t begin to explain just what happens to me when I have an emotional choice to make!- Right now, one minute I’m wanting to make it work with him, the next I don’t care. the next minute his friendship with her is a deal breaker, then it isn’t, then I can work on me to deal with it, then I can’t, then I’m circular dating!- Grrrr- you get the picture!- I just want peace and to make the right decision for me and I know deep deep down that I love him and I know we could be very happy- but!……….



  107.  #107Mandy on March 28, 2015 at 12:33 pm

    Beloved and Azure – THANK you DEARLY for your support.

    Yes, I love the way my sparkling heart shines through too 🙂 I have been told by J he loves how I’m like this Disney character, lol! Just pure optimism sometimes. I can go the distance, I will find my prince, I am on my way, I am ready to stand, things like that are how I am, if that makes any sense, lol. That’s me loving life, loving passion and having severe passion and drive to do something I want to do.

    But ya, my eyes popped wide open. there was no feigning surprise or acting surprised…there was no need to “feel” my way into being surprised…it was all me…I just grabbed him and hugged him and he responded very well.

    When we were sitting together, he said he could feel the heart energy between us, and the intimacy, and I squealed with joy! He has been so incredibly loving recently….we’ve just been snuggling so tightly and kissing each other and when we watch tv he always looks at me every five minutes to see what I’m doing, lol…I don’t know why he does that….

    Do you know why he does that? When he sees how I’m doing every few minutes and blows me a kiss? What does that sound like? I know it feels good…but I am not very in tune with what happens when a man is paying lots of attention to me because I’m not that used to it. I never allow it, but right now I actually FEEL HAPPY with him focusing on me! I actually let it happen! 🙂

    Usually it makes me angry when he focuses on me, because I feel monitored, from having a very overbearing, helicopter parent for a father – NOT a bad problem to have – just overwhelming. That’s not me being happy at all. But this time, I feel happy…last night I felt happy instead of weird that he kept looking back at me while we were watching shows! He does this a sometimes, I just didn’t notice until now. Feels like he might be checking to see if I’m okay or still with him in the story of the show. It is incredibly important to him that I watch shows with him…I am not sure why…but he really really likens it to cuddling.

    Wow, this feels interesting, exploring the good feelings of good interactions instead of worrying about bad ones.



  108.  #108Mandy on March 28, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    OH – PS –

    Flirting with an old friend as we speak…it is lots of fun 🙂

    I do feel kind of naughty though 🙂



  109.  #109Lovergirl on March 28, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    I am dealing today with feeling a terrible longing/loneliness for S. Saturdays have become very difficult for me, since we used to spend them together. I know I should be getting out there and doing something, but I am broke and feel stuck here with my children. I could go out on a date, but no one has specifically asked me today.

    The new guy, I slept with him again but honestly still wasn’t feeling it. He offered to buy me lunch but I didn’t want to hang around and got out of there as quickly as possible. I feel like I’m the commitment phobe. He texts and wants to know what I am doing and I make excuses not to hang out.

    There is another guy I used to be into and having sex with that has been wanting to see me again but I am avoiding him. Then there was this guy that I emailed with from online, but he was annoying me by asking too many questions and wanting to know what I am “looking for”. I don’t like to say I am looking for a relationship, because when I say that then I end up with these clingy men that are hard to get rid of if I decide I don’t want a relationship with HIM. Anyway, we exchanged numbers and he hasn’t called me. I think he thinks I should call him. Fat chance, buddy. :p

    I just saw S on Tuesday and we talked on Wed and Thursday, but I am just aching to be with him today. I want him to feel that way about ME. To feel like I am the only woman that makes him happy. For awhile it felt like he felt the same way, but right now, I just don’t know anymore what he is feeling and I know I am not supposed to focus on that, but it is very difficult. :/



  110.  #110Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    Silver – I was unable to respond before, as there was a lot to read and sort through, and I had to get back to rehearsal.

    I’m sorry, I don’t really have anything to offer. This is a complex situation, as you already know, and I’m not really clear on what you REALLY want. I feel confused. Are you? I think I could offer more if you had a more specific question for me? For now I can offer you love and support in whatever your decisions might be.

    xxoo



  111.  #111Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Kath – 104 – You are so adorable, and I totally get what you’re saying here. And you know what, you don’t have to make a choice until you feel ready.

    And the readiness, the clarity comes, as you continue to work on yourself, as you continue to open yourself with curiosity to your life as well as the people in it. And as you continue to FEEL into the moments, moment by moment sometimes.

    Some feelings may have a name, some may not. Some may feeling confusing, some may feel very definite. And as you allow all of this, the clarity comes. You will start to know what’s okay, and what’s not okay FOR YOU. What you can accept and live with and what you can’t.

    And as I mentioned earlier, the stuff you decide you can live with even though it’s not exactly as you would prefer will tend to fade away, whether it’s because it no longer bothers you at all, or it truly does disappear.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  112.  #112Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Kim – 103 – You have your life exactly as it needs to be FOR YOU. And it is very much the way Rori suggests, yet even if it varied hugely, it’s working for you and working very well. And this is what’s important, YOU and how you feel.

    So yay!!!

    xxoo



  113.  #113Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Mandy – 105 – Unlike your past experiences, when you felt under scrutiny, he’s watching you because he loves you. Most men will do this when they’re feeling very close to you, connected. This is a great thing!!! 🙂

    xxoo



  114.  #114Dominique on March 28, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Lovergirl – 107 – So what can you do at home which would feel fun/good? Maybe bake something with your children. Or pop some popcorn, and watch a good movie together, or by yourself. Can you give yourself a DIY at home facial, manicure, tub soak? I can give you a few of my own recipes if you need some. Do you have any projects you’ve put aside, eg. knitting, embroidery, crochet. beading, sewing? A good book and a glass of wine? What would make you feel good right now, tonight?

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  115.  #115Lovergirl on March 28, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    Thank you Dominique (112)! 🙂

    I already did a face mask and painted my nails. I’ll probably do a family movie night with the kids tonight but I usually don’t care much for the movies I watch with them on Netflix, lol. I know they would like to make cookies and maybe I will though that just feels tedious at the moment. Maybe if I watch something for myself later or write in my blog. Maybe doing some decluttering and reorganizing will help. Nothing seems to feel good right now. I feel restless and anxious.

    The new guy called and asked me out for a movie and dinner tomorrow night. Maybe at the very least it will help me get my mind off S. I feel like computer stalking him and I know thats not good for my mental health. I tried getting on POF and ended up looking him up and seeing he has hidden his profile and wondering why? Its none of my business, I have to not think of him. I feel obsessive.



  116.  #116Indigo on March 28, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Kim,

    Can I just say how much I LOVE your post 99. Especially this:

    ” do believe the one thing that has a tendency to resolve most relationship problems, in my experience, is to take the focus off the relationship for a little while and come back to yourself….whether it is CDing, or painting, walking, doing something we enjoy.
    I found that when I concentrate on me having a good time, i e me loving myself, most things seem to resol themselves, yes of course communication is needed too, but I notice how I am much more calm and happy and it is much easier to resolve things, or easier to move on or whatever when I love me.”

    I employed this today for my benefit. I had been giving D a bit of space since our talk about the parties on Monday night, and frankly, I had been taking some for myself. This is usual for us, when we have a meaningful conversation to take a little bit of a time out afterwards. He seems to need it more than me, so I usually just wait for him to come back to me. Today however I decided not to “wait”. I decided to make a special effort to not think of him at all and absorb myself completely with loving me and doing what I *knew* I needed. I went shopping for stuff for my hair and yummy breakfast. I did some cleaning. I had a long luxurious bath and shaved and waxed and got all my skin silky smooth. I went for a long walk. I put on some Enya in the background and poured myself a glass of liquer, and even though I would have liked to avoid it, I JOURNALLED because I knew I needed it. I loved it and found it so therapeutic and found I got thoroughly absorbed in the moment. Finally I put on a favourite movie. In all these activities, instead of pining in any way, I just kept redirecting my focus to the fact that I was doing things for ME. I was just watching the movie and noticing that my attention was thoroughly off the relationship when who should text? D being all sweet and wanting to know how I was and asking if I wanted to come over and watch a movie.

    So yes I love your observation that most problems can be solved by taking your focus off the relationship and loving yourself 🙂



  117.  #117Emerson on March 28, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Rori you always have a way of reaching way deep down….and bringing something to light that is helpful and identifiable!! Thank you for that.



  118.  #118Jessie1001 on March 28, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Sometimes I have been in those shallow kind of relationships –just sexually and felt in love because it felt so safe not to have to give anything to some–no kind of risk, no intimacy and it felt like love but it was not loving but I felt in love with the situation….my head said one thing but my heart was safely not engaged.
    Whats confusing is how do you take the time and ask yourself…why does this feel so safe? What has happened to me in my life that I would choose not to feel true intimacy with anyone–Hi girls xoxo



  119.  #119Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    Kath – I think FW’s advice is great and wise as well – re post 93!



  120.  #120Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    Er, I mean post 89!!



  121.  #121Bopa on March 28, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    Feeling so much blissful happiness bubbling up from within. I imagine it’s a radiant light shining from every pore, my eyes, ears, nose, mouth, even the hairs on my head. I see people just look at me and smile. People I know don’t smile very often. I smile, they smile. Once we just started laughing for no reason. Just from smiling at each other. The creation of something out of nothing. How amazing!
    I feel like…A girl electrified! A step beyond “on fire”. 🙂
    I’m killing it. Reaching my goals with a vengeance. I did not think it could get any better but it does! It keeps on and on.
    Life is a beautiful thing. 🙂
    Joy!



  122.  #122Bopa on March 28, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    Jessie1001

    True intimacy can feel intense, scary. A similar body sensation to riding an epic rollercoaster. Not because it is unsafe, or even like a rollercoaster. It can just awaken that part of the brain that feels excitement. After some time those sensations will ebb and the comfort of familiarity takes over. It takes practice.
    But this is why I believe I shut intimacy out of my life. Because the sensations, the feelings are closer to “safety”.
    Intimacy, the real and true, deep and accepting, down and dirty kind of intimacy is a height that not everyone feels safe reaching for.
    That’s why it is so important to get real with your feelings. To get to know them, love them, welcome them. Especially the intense ones. Because if it’s intimacy you want, you can’t be afraid of what you will feel.
    It might bring you to your knees. It might bring tears to your eyes and panic to your belly and that has to be ok.



  123.  #123Bopa on March 28, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    That didn’t really answer the question. It is what came to my mind 😀
    So I hope it’s helpful!



  124.  #124Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    Kim – 99 – agree about putting the focus on you resolving most issues!!

    Kath – So agree with you about Dominique always knowing where someone is at, even when they don’t know!

    Dominique –
    YES, I feel bad for how wordy my thoughts are lately.
    Thank you so much for reading!
    I really just wanted to know what you sense about the situation, how you would handle it, or mainly, if you think I am leaning forward too much – considering the situation/pain caused him.

    Yes, it is complex.

    Kath and Zia felt like I wasn’t leaning back enough.
    However it’s hard for situations to always translate details over the internet, so I shared our background.

    It’s not a simple situation. (or maybe it is!).

    We’re at a point where I may be living with Avocado for a while, and we have discussed maybe getting a place, where he has shown interest, but seems hesitant. I don’t want to lose this opportunity again since it’s somewhat present – he wouldn’t have offered to let me stay there if he were worried about what any other woman he is talking to thinks, and he has asked to come along to see places I find to rent.

    I think the hesitation to get a new place together is partly because he is afraid he won’t be able to pay the RENT, as his income is not stable, it’s dependent upon daily available jobs. Also maybe due to other women, but more to do with ME. After our past, does he trust me? To put his desires first, let him be in charge (resentment for MILW/+ just wanting to be first). Does he feel afraid of being stuck? Do we want the same things in life, does he feel the emotional connection with me right now? These are things I’m sensing.

    He obviously still cares, and he still is attracted to me, and even after leaving me to try with this one girl a year ago, he is back. He still wants me, and our emotional connection feels good, but there is part of him that is shut down, and I realize that he sometimes is afraid to talk about things.

    It just occurred to me yesterday that through the things that have occurred that hurt him, that he almost positively feels I haven’t been loyal to him, that I have put others before him (death to the Aries ego!) …

    Not just with things having to do with our child, whom MILW birthed and raised, but also having to do with US – ie; I “chose” to live with MILW instead of him (for valid reasons, but he felt like second choice, second best, and that I stayed because MILW had money and he didn’t)… see where I’m going, here, very emasculating feelings.

    I’m surprised he speaks to me at all, (he did stop for a long time!) but I’ve done an AMAZING job of letting him feel safe to come back to me. For months I felt like he was a scared creature, who, the more I leaned back, the closer he would come, each time I saw him. Literally. Physically closer, eye contact, SITTING DOWN when he came over, emotionally more open, responsive or initiating text or playfulness, more connective, then touching, spending more time, then sex. Literally blooming!

    I think he has discovered that I am fair and not vengeful, despite how he has behaved when he was hurt, (one of his fears about marriage, being left and taken advantage of). And I sense that he feels fairly safe with me right now, as he recently did something I was very angry about and I successfully FM and stayed very calm and we created beginnings of solutions to those things!!
    So, two points for me!

    I am sure he’s watching me, testing me, to see if I do what I say, to see if I mean what I say, … and to see if he feels safe with me when he doesn’t do what I want.

    But, I am sensing that I may need to address some other things – address what I did that caused him pain, in order for him to fully open and for us to fully connect.

    Since this was my “wrong”, (not really, but he sees me as the source of the pain), I sense that I need to address his pain that I know is still there.

    It’s just something that occurred to me yesterday, and I feel I should follow that intuition. He may not tell me everything, but when I am open he is also, as much as he can articulate.

    I don’t know yet what I’ll say, I will write a speech.
    (cont..)



  125.  #125Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    ———-My Question to Dominique or anyone interested is: Would you bring this up? In general do you think I’m leaning forward in a bad way?

    Knowing the pain that occurred – It has damaged the relationship so much he stopped seeing me or speaking to me. He’s slowly warmed up in the past two years. He’s mentioned here or there (when he was angry) things that hurt him, but we have both been afraid to talk to each other. It’s never been resolved or fully and openly addressed. I’ve just suddenly sensed that this MAY BE the wedge between us, keeping us from connecting fully and openly, when we used to be IN LOVE.

    Some sirens think this I am leaning forward in general, (-I didn’t think so- I made my desires/interest known, and he responded) and also thinking about what is going on here, and bringing this up with him.

    Yet, I think after how rejected he has felt, how emasculated, how second choice, I think I NEED to lean forward a bit – as I am in his mind the source of the pain and damage.

    I need to connect with him emotionally, empathize about what’s caused him pain, openly discuss & let him be heard, show that I am willing to respect him, let him be in charge, put him first, make changes, and let him feel that I FEEL his pain and it hurts me too.

    I feel like this is fitting for the situation.
    I really feel for the background here, this is not really leaning forward at all and may improve things. This may be HUGE. When you feel heard and felt, it’s impossible for hearts not to align.

    Thanks for your love and support, Dominique and Sirens. I truly appreciate every bit of energy you put into considering my situation. I have a feeling what we both do right now is critical, and that we both sense it. I don’t know if he will pay attention to that, but I do, intuition is how I navigate. The last time I felt this, I was spot on – and had I been fearless enough to jump out and take a leap of faith, we may never have gone through a lot of things we went through, including court. So right now, this has nothing to do with us moving in, although it might actually cause things to fall into place now or in the near future. I just feel like when this all occurred to me yesterday, something ‘clicked’.



  126.  #126Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    So I’ve got a new client!!! Worked for them for the first time today, and they were very happy!!! So happy in fact, that after I left and I lost the check they gave me, they wrote the replacement check for even more!!!

    I have increased my income significantly this month! I was making next to nothing before, certainly not enough to sustain me, just pay some of the bills.

    I have increased my income 30-50%!
    I also got this new client, and am waiting to hear about another proposal to another client.

    That job would depend on whether I live with Avocado or a friend who my youngest is comfortable with as it would require me working late at night.

    Looking to pick up more clients, but I am really happy with the way things are going, including other victories this month with other things I’m involved in!

    A friend of mine I haven’t seen in a long time, who lost his wife shortly after I met him years ago, has suddenly taken a liking to me, (and tried to make out with and have sex with me the other night, after buying me all kinds of wine and food). I also lost my partner of many years, many years ago, (before MILW). So we understand each others experience with that.

    Today, he wanted to kiss and hug me, and I could tell he really wanted me. He told me that I just make him feel.. MMM! He said that I give him butterflies in his tummy. And thank you for making him feel that way.
    He asked me to call him the other day when I was free from work (so he didn’t put any of my private business on facebook, – as he’s aware of my family with MILW/Avocado, and that MILW and I are separated). He only wanted to talk to me to tell me how great of a time he had the other night, and to ask when he could see me again. I told him how busy I was, and he said the ball is in my court. Of course, when I saw him today, he asked when he could see me, and what was I doing later, … and asked a few more times. I said (standing in his office doing nothing), “i’m packing. can’t you see me packing? hehe” … he said “i keep asking because I keep hoping I’ll get a different answer.” ;D haha. He told me to let him know when I’m free.

    Fun to get attention from really enthusiastic men!!! 😀



  127.  #127Silver-Tongued Siren on March 28, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    BOPA:

    “I feel like…A girl electrified! A step beyond “on fire”. 🙂
    I’m killing it. Reaching my goals with a vengeance. I did not think it could get any better but it does! It keeps on and on.”

    ME TOO!



  128.  #128Emerson on March 28, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    Sirens, recycled keeps trying to make contact with me, and for about 6 months, I have not replied. At all. For a while, I felt with him like the woman described in this post…I “loved” him and yet he would blow hot and cold and never “loved” me back, per se….
    Which is why….I cannot reply to his half hearted messages to me….
    Part of me is curious…but not curious enough to put myself through the pain that waits for me if I allow him “back in”…..

    lately, I see so many couples and they’ve been together for many years, seem happy. I wonder gosh how are they so stable and happy….it’s interesting how some people find it…and some of us (me) dont…



  129.  #129Liquid Light on March 28, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    Bopa 119 sounds awesome girl! wow!!!



  130.  #130Silver-Tongued Siren on March 29, 2015 at 12:21 am

    Emerson.. 126.
    I haven’t been able to keep up about recycled.. How is he hot and cold? Does he just fade out with excuses, or does he behave extremely? I am not suggesting that you should allow him back in, at all, but maybe in situations like this you can know that IF a man is there and you don’t like what he’s doing, you can trust yourself to deal with it appropriately. (which is what you’re doing).
    Is he “rubberbanding”?



  131.  #131Kath on March 29, 2015 at 1:52 am

    I have just written a speech:
    “I wish I could think with my head but I always think with my heart. I know where i went wrong in our relationship and i wanted a chance to show you i have grown and changed. i understand your silence and its fine. What will be will be xxx”
    Its a goodbye speech really-but this is how I feel- it doesn’t sound needy does it?-



  132.  #132Femininewoman on March 29, 2015 at 2:20 am

    Kath why would you want to say that?



  133.  #133Kath on March 29, 2015 at 3:14 am

    Because the text response I got from him two days ago showed that he had no read and understood what I said and I know that his silence is a manipulative power tool he uses to keep himself in control. Once again I feel misunderstood and unheard and I guess my speech is the white flag really.



  134.  #134Femininewoman on March 29, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Well then maybe saying nothing keeps the power in your court.



  135.  #135Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 5:00 am

    Kath,

    What did his text response two days ago say?

    Sorry, I must be a bit out of the loop with your story, I thought you had come to peace with the situation.



  136.  #136Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 5:10 am

    Silver-Tongued Siren 122 & 123,

    My reading of your situation is that the fallout of your relationship with Avocado was definitely not completely your fault/responsibility. He feels what he feels about it, but that does not necessarily mean you did something wrong. From what I can tell, you made what you thought was the best decision for you and your child. Thus, there is nothing to really apologise for or explain.

    Writing a speech about it seems to me to be too much, and has the vibe of trying to control how this goes, wanting to “make it better”. Dominique, who is a wonderful coach, has on a few occasions pointed out to me where I am doing this. Men are not necessarily willing or able to hear our explanations, probably why the coaches caution us against doing this.

    If your relationship with him is going to come right, it will or it won’t. The most you can do is through leaning back and practicing some of Rori’s tools/rules. I would keep the speeches and explaining to a minimum. Only you can make the choice about moving in with him, but I would caution you against trying to “fix things”.

    Good luck



  137.  #137Emerson on March 29, 2015 at 5:35 am

    128 thank you sts for your reply….
    I don’t think he is rubberbanding…
    He could never make s decision to commit….
    I really had strong feelings for him, so the “breakup” was painful…



  138.  #138Kath on March 29, 2015 at 6:08 am

    #133 Indigo,

    His text read:
    “Your text was unexpected and it has thrown me, was not expecting that at all. not sure what to say or do. i have known her for 9yrs and i know what she is and what people think. Her friendship and companionship has never let me down. She has always been there when i needed a shoulder to lean on. She is not and never will be relationship material. I have a loyalty to her because she has never let me down when i needed help or company. I am not going to drop her friendship again because of your views. If you cant find a way to deal with this then we are not going to have a good relationship and it will soon descend into the way it was last year and both do not need or want that. Have a think and we can try to work it out”
    So I responded:” I didn’t fall in love with you because of friends or family-I fell in love with you and with the way you make me feel and that is what I want again”.
    From that response I took it that I was saying I still hated her and all of his family as well, hated his biker friends, would continue to give him grief and he still wasn’t convinced that anything had changed. I then immediately saw that nothing in him had really changed and no amount of me saying “I have seen where I went wrong and how to approach things differently” was going to make any difference. He sent further great long texts this morning saying basically that he couldn’t see anything different and that I had been so awful in the past that he was looking for assurance that it would be different. I said actions spoke louder than words and that I couldn’t apologise any more than than I had done already. Basically, its done- I felt myself becoming the same frustrated, irritated person I had been when I was with him before because he just wasn’t listening to what was being said to him and kept going round in circles and not wanting to move on. I’m done-briefest reconciliation I’ve had so far!



  139.  #139Kath on March 29, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Oops I meant to say “From that response HE took it that i was saying…..”



  140.  #140Azure Blu on March 29, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Good morning Sirens,,,,
    I had a breakthrough this morning…
    All the leaning back… self loving,
    taking exquisite care of ME…
    Learning MORE and more about
    how that looks and feels…
    more layers to peel…

    Reading all the sharing on Siren Island
    and what other Rori coaches have written…

    Getting a better understanding for me…
    about how, doing too much in a relationship
    giving too much, calling-texting, cooking too much, organizing dates, get-togethers etc.
    causes me to get angry… frustrated…
    like HE owes ME
    because look at ALLLLL *I* do…

    Sooo this time – with Spirit-i wanted to STOP
    MY habit of letting go…
    then getting ANGRY and pushing him
    away when HE does come back!!!
    This time, when Spirit took space
    after 2 weeks of intense reconcilation, loving, caring, adoring, time together…
    I was able to focus on ME…
    taking care of ALL the many things that make ME feel *I* CARE about ME
    AND be happy when I did hear from HIM on Sat morning…
    invite him to our family’s birthday party celebration
    of my mothers 89 years!!
    He declined as my invitiation was last-minute
    and he had made plans… we textd and talked off and on yesterday… he’s still a little leaned back…

    this morning I felt this INTENSE ANGER
    RAGE
    I had to Fall to the floor…
    and examine WHAT was going on…
    I discovered it was ME
    giving up MORE control…
    In an interaction this morning with my son
    He shared his insight into his cousins recovery
    from alchol addiction… she was, yet again in another rehab…
    “It’s a step-by-step process, Mom, it takes a lifetime
    to discover the answers…”
    So wise..
    AND I WAS ABLe to say
    “So wise, you are sooo right.”
    and let it go at that… NOT put my 2 cents in
    Just let HIM have the last word…
    It probably sounds so small to everyone…
    but this IS such a big piece of ME…
    Letting HIM have his space and his words…
    Soo important to healing our relationship!!!

    ME being able to be softer… MUCH softer
    on the inside… ME letting people, family, Mr.Right
    Gently into MY heart
    and taking down another brick from MY wall
    (and MY key to MORE happiness)
    and letting INTIMACY IN!!!

    the other part of the rage was
    ME allowing Spirit HIS space…
    I soooo much wanted to *INSIST*
    he talk to me, see ME
    when *I* want!!!
    and if he doesn’t i throw a temper tantrum
    and push HIM away!!!
    So SELF distructive!!!
    I LOVE ME…
    I WANT LOVE FOR ME…
    GIving up control… one step at a time…
    is MY KEY!!
    Thank you Azure Blu… for loving ME
    sooo much and everyday learning
    how to take better and better care
    of *ME*!!!



  141.  #141Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Azure Blu,

    “he other part of the rage was
    ME allowing Spirit HIS space…
    I soooo much wanted to *INSIST*
    he talk to me, see ME
    when *I* want!!!
    and if he doesn’t i throw a temper tantrum
    and push HIM away!!!”

    Me too! I was dealing with the same thing this weekend! On Saturday I felt this urge inside to contact D and push myself into his space, insist he see me… yes, the old me would have done that. But then I played it through to its logical conclusion and I was able to say to myself – hang on, firstly if you do that, how will you even know he wants to see you? And secondly, you KNOW it will push him away and very likely just lead to a ball of frustration and anger building up inside you. And so, though it was a bit hard, I was able to LEAN BACK, and he contacted ME and asked ME to do something, and all was well.

    Yay you



  142.  #142Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Kath,

    I understand. And I understand how that feels bad. I dated a guy last year, I wrote about him on here, I called him Blue. He had a close female friend (actually he had a whole harem of female friends) and I felt very uncomfortable with the set up, and his response to me was very similar to what your guy said to me. Basically that this female friend of his had always been there for him, always been loyal, always picked up the pieces, and he wasn’t going to give her up for me or anyone else, and if I couldn’t accept that we weren’t going to have a nice relationship. I knew it wasn’t going to work and I broke it off.

    Anyway, I’m sorry, (((hugs)))



  143.  #143Azure Blu on March 29, 2015 at 7:27 am

    Indigo
    YAY us!!

    Honoring someone’s space
    I think it is also a key
    to showing and giving respect…
    another thing I am practicing
    with Spirit
    showing HIM respect!



  144.  #144Kath on March 29, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Thanks Indigo,

    I have broken it off- it is not going to work. I just can’t live with someone who seems determined to completely disregard or ignore my feelings. I was so angry again that I was being misunderstood and realised that nothing in him had or would ever change. Yet he wanted me to do all the changing!- Live and Learn!



  145.  #145Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 8:40 am

    Kath-

    I totally feel for you. Maybe it is a good thing that came up because it opened your eyes to what things would be like in the future and whether or not you could tolerate dealing with it. He’s worried about her loyalty, but you need HIS loyalty.



  146.  #146Beloved on March 29, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Kath – I understand how you feel – and – personally, I couldn’t respect a man who dropped friends just because I felt jealous and insecure. I believe you proved his point, actually, that a someone he feels is a true friend, isn’t worth dropping over a woman who isn’t likely to be around long.
    It is disrespectful to go into relationship expecting a man to change. He is who he is.
    I remember you posting about similar issues before and it seemed that you just generally disapprove of and don’t like his friends and his whole lifestyle, in which case I feel you made the right choice for yourself. Best to keep yourself available for someone who feels like a better fit.



  147.  #147Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 9:01 am

    After reading Dominique’s comment last night, I did a lot of thinking about what I could do to love myself and focus on me. I still had a really hard time with it though. I didn’t contact S, but my thoughts couldn’t seem to get off of him. Today I am going to try again. I have a movie date and dinner with the new guy tonight so hopefully that will help, but I still feel pangs of missing S whenever I am with another man.

    I would love some more low cost ideas for focusing on ME. I’ve noticed a lot of Rori’s blog posts are about turning your attention back on yourself. Here is what I have come up with:

    So far I’m thinking things like:
    Take a walk
    Lay out in the sun in the backyard
    Exercise with a youtube video or DVD
    Declutter/reorganize around the house
    Write in a journal/blog
    Read a book (or re-read Rori’s ebook!)
    Take a hot bath
    Do my nails/face mask/some sort of beauty ritual
    Read old blog posts on here and on the coaches sites
    Watch a movie on Netflix (would love some ideas for good chick flicks that are on there- I don’t watch a lot of tv or movies so have missed out on a lot)
    Bake with or read to the kids

    If I have a little more money/can go out-
    Get a massage (groupon has some great deals)
    Movie by myself
    Go out with girlfriends or one of my sisters- dancing/happy hour/out to eat
    Take a class- there is a pole dancing studio not far from here that offers fairly cheap workshops
    Go to some sort of get together off Meetup and meet some new people
    Get a mani/pedi
    Retail therapy! Do a little shopping. 🙂



  148.  #148Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 9:01 am

    I think I know why my comment went into moderation so I’m trying again….

    After reading Dominique’s comment last night, I did a lot of thinking about what I could do to love myself and focus on me. I still had a really hard time with it though. I didn’t contact S, but my thoughts couldn’t seem to get off of him. Today I am going to try again. I have a movie date and dinner with the new guy tonight so hopefully that will help, but I still feel pangs of missing S whenever I am with another man.

    I would love some more low cost ideas for focusing on ME. I’ve noticed a lot of Rori’s blog posts are about turning your attention back on yourself. Here is what I have come up with:

    So far I’m thinking things like:
    Take a walk
    Lay out in the sun in the backyard
    Exercise with a you tube video or DVD
    Declutter/reorganize around the house
    Write in a journal/blog
    Read a book (or re-read Rori’s ebook!)
    Take a hot bath
    Do my nails/face mask/some sort of beauty ritual
    Read old blog posts on here and on the coaches sites
    Watch a movie on Netflix (would love some ideas for good chick flicks that are on there- I don’t watch a lot of tv or movies so have missed out on a lot)
    Bake with or read to the kids

    If I have a little more money/can go out-
    Get a massage (groupon has some great deals)
    Movie by myself
    Go out with girlfriends or one of my sisters- dancing/happy hour/out to eat
    Take a class- there is a pole dancing studio not far from here that offers fairly cheap workshops
    Go to some sort of get together off Meetup and meet some new people
    Get a mani/pedi
    Retail therapy! Do a little shopping. 🙂



  149.  #149Kath on March 29, 2015 at 9:18 am

    Thanks Lovergirl and Beloved,
    Yes- I did need his loyalty-and his respect of my views and feelings. I get on with mostly everyone-even people I don’t like I manage to be civil with-but this particular woman gives off a really negative and awful vibe and I have always felt bad around her. In addition to other people saying the same things about her-and his Sister’s best friend taking me to one side and telling me to “watch her”-it didn’t bode well for me to accept her as someone worth having around. After a lot of thinking I came to the decision that I could respect that he wanted her friendship and that I had to keep my opinions to myself. But having said to him that I respected his friendship with her, he then started bringing in all the old stuff about me not liking the biker friends he had, not enjoying the rallies he took me to and trying to control him!- I seriously hadn’t tried to control him but did acknowledge I’d been a bit vocal about some things-but I had experienced them and found I didn’t like them. I wasn’t stopping him from doing them without me!- I looked at it like him and his hobby-like fishing, golf or train spotting even!- why on earth would I want to take part in it!- but didn’t detract from that was what he enjoyed!- Ah well, he came up with lots of excuses as far as I’m concerned so it did show me that he hadn’t changed deep down at all and that it wouldn’t work between us because perhaps he couldn’t handle the fact that I am quite happy to have my own interests away from him!



  150.  #150Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Kath,

    “Ah well, he came up with lots of excuses as far as I’m concerned so it did show me that he hadn’t changed deep down at all”

    I fully agree with your decision to walk away if this friendship with the other woman was something you felt would make your relationship not work. As I said, I have done the same thing in my time, more than once.

    But Beloved is quite right, you can’t be looking for changes in a man or expecting them. This is something Dominique talks about, quite beautifully I might add. You can negotiate with him, you can let him know how you feel once or twice, you can work on yourself, that’s it. But I’m coming to realise just how much acceptance and respect is needed to be in a relationship with a man. And of course, you need to honour yourself as well. So if it feels difficult to do, best to walk away.



  151.  #151Indigo on March 29, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Lovergirl,

    I love this list of things to do! Nearly everything on your list is also on mine. A few more suggestions (and it really is fun thinking of stuff), I don’t know if any of this will appeal to you but these are also things I love doing:

    * Putting on an audio book in the background and doing housework (ironing, dishes, laundry, cleaning etc.)
    * Bubble bath with scented candles and a glass of wine
    * The beauty rituals that you can do are endless when you think about it – hair treatments, shaving, waxing, tweezing, slathering yourself with lotion, doing a foot soak/pumicing/pedicure, experimenting with different make up looks, practicing different hairstyles, mixing and matching different outfits
    * Meditations (I like guided meditations but silent meditations are great too)
    * Putting on some music and singing/dancing or journalling
    * Making yummy meals/snacks or the perfect hot drink (I like Rooibos tea with milk and honey as it’s also very soothing)
    * Arts & crafts projects – painting, making cards or gifts, framing, photo albums etc.
    * Visiting art exhibitions and going to hear talks by artists
    * Polishing or cleaning your jewellery, furniture or treasures

    I have tons of ideas, so let me know if you ever need any more!



  152.  #152Kath on March 29, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Indigo,
    But that’s just it!- He dropped her friendship before without me asking him to and I didn’t feel great that he had. I knew this time I had to accept it and so I gave my speech about how it made me feel wierd and uncomfortable but I asked for help in finding a way forward that be good for the both of us. It was after that he started coming up with all these excuses about her and other stuff!- I just thought I was being honest, open and vulnerable saying that I’d deal with it with help-it felt like he didn’t and couldn’t see or hear that. It feels like he chose her whom he feels loyalty to over me whom he says he loves. I am totally confused and befuddled by what he has said and the way he has taken things- but it is no different from the complete confusion and frustration that existed in the relationship before-and that’s what I don’t want anymore of.



  153.  #153Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Indigo-

    Love your suggestions. I can’t believe I forgot about blasting some of my favorite music and singing. I’m a huge music buff, lol. Maybe because my teenager hates it when I do that. I hated my parents music as a teen too but I love it now. Funny how that works. 😉

    I read an old post on here about making a playlist of songs where men are singing about their love/attraction for a woman and pretending they are singing to you. I think that would be fun and very easy for me to compile a list, since I love a good love song.

    Beauty treatments are always fun and make me feel good about myself. I love to dress up and look my best. It makes me feel confident and “pretty”. I love the idea of adding scented candles/bubbles/essential oils and wine to the hot bath. It’s funny, whenever I finally took a hot bath (hadn’t for a long time) S would call WHILE I was in there and I ended up talking to him.

    I’m not very artsy, but I did used to do scrapbooking with pictures of my children. If I got some actual photos developed it would be fun to do again.

    There is a very nice art gallery near here and it is free too. I could go by myself, since my attempt at taking 5 children to an art gallery was kind of a mega fail, ha!

    Meditating and audio books can be a challenge with kids around too but would be nice. It doesn’t hurt to give it a try.



  154.  #154Waterfall on March 29, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Wow, so much great stuff as usual! Indigo, Azure Blue – I love your soft, sensitive words to other sirens. I feel it just feeling me up with warmth and sweetness… mmm…

    I have felt so heavy and burdened over the last few weeks either with my own issues or the issues of friends.

    Things were getting pretty heavy between me and D again and I just lose myself in it all. ie I cut out all the negative stuff and pushed it deep down inside of myself.

    We talked about moving in together and that has massively scared me and I’ve pushed him away. All in all I realise I can’t go on like this and I also realise it is not fair on him. For some reason I don’t feel secure and I need to back away from the relationship until I know what it is that is making me feel like this.

    D says I am expecting perfection and that there is no such thing. This makes me feel like crying. I do inside.

    Anyway, we have backed off from each other. I have told him I love him but I don’t feel we are suited personality wise.

    I just need to trust myself but it is hard when I don’t know what I want. Sometimes I just feel I am so busy with the day-to-day stuff that I never know how to cultivate a life that is more rewarding.

    What I am trying to say is that I find it hard enough just to cope with the daily grind of life, let alone develop anything else for myself. Life just seems to roll on.. I still miss birthdays, deadlines, meetings. I try and not be scatty but I still find things hard…

    Sorry for ranting on…



  155.  #155Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 10:37 am

    Kath-

    I get where you are coming from. A female friend is fine but I would have to come FIRST or it would be a dealbreaker for me. It feels like he is putting her before you and that would be unacceptable to me.



  156.  #156Kath on March 29, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Yes-Lovergirl that is exactly how it feels. He has made his choice-no going back now.



  157.  #157April Rose on March 29, 2015 at 11:17 am

    I think he is putting his ‘right to make his own decisions’ first.
    This can seem emphasised when a man is acting a bit defensive.
    The only ‘cure’ for a man being defensive, i.e. getting him to be warm and approachable again, is when we turn up the dial on our own vulnerability.
    And that includes dropping all agendas for wanting him to change.

    It’s up to us how much we want to ‘go first’ with vulnerability. And I believe this is what regulates the level of intimacy that can be experienced in a relationship.



  158.  #158April Rose on March 29, 2015 at 11:23 am

    I felt enthralled by Indigo’s experience. Whereby sotening to the triggers about the women friends coincided with those women fading away.

    I suppose it is the proof to the saying ‘what you resist persists’.

    My new man friend has spoken about a woman friend os his who was there for him when he was having a tough time.
    I prefer to listen with curiosity from HIS perspective. Whilst initially I was triggered by such emotional closeness with a woman, my empathy towards HIM makes me grateful for her part in helping him feel better about himself.



  159.  #159April Rose on March 29, 2015 at 11:24 am

    Don’t forget, men love to be the hero and feel needed.

    If the woman in question accepts his help and financial support, then he is going to feel good about himself in her presence whatever her personality is like.

    See it from the male mind – it’s very different!



  160.  #160April Rose on March 29, 2015 at 11:25 am

    in 155 i meant *softening* to the triggers



  161.  #161Kath on March 29, 2015 at 11:45 am

    Sorry April Rose- I hear what you’re saying but I fundamentally disagree with you. Yes, I accept that there are men who love to do things for women, be the knight in shining armour etc etc-but please, if the man is regularly giving relatively large sums of money to a woman who isn;t his lover, his Mother, his Sister or his Daughter then you have to ask yourself why is he doing it??- and why would he only be doing it when the girlfriend wasn’t in the picture???? He has only spent money on her when I’ve not been around to challenge him on why he’s doing it. This woman works!!!!!!!!- albeit not a well paid job but she should have some kind of self respect!- Has she really that little that she allows him to fork out all that he has and NOT repay anything!!!!- I have known him for four years and in that time he has “given” her more than £2500 sterling!- and she hasn’t attempted to pay anything back!- Is that the behaviour of a Siren!?_ Is that the behaviour of someone I should have compassion for??-



  162.  #162Beloved on March 29, 2015 at 11:50 am

    On the topic of softening triggers –

    The other night, TG was going on about being an addict and suggested I needed to tell him what to do to keep him in check. I said, “I don’t feel comfortable telling a man what to do.”
    He replied, “Well, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO!!!”
    I smiled 🙂

    Today he came in, telling me how he was being stupid and came home drunk on his motorcycle last night and he needed to get his life back in order.
    I smiled, said it felt good to hear that because I kind of like having him around.

    He doesn’t need a lecture on his habits, he KNOWS.
    Which reflects back on me, how I’ve been struggling with my addictions and bad habits. How maybe I could feel about and talk to myself the way I feel about and talk to TG.
    What if I told my inner boy, I trust you, I trust you will handle this, I trust your instincts, I trust you will get it together and work it out?
    Makes me feel like crying just to think it.



  163.  #163Beloved on March 29, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    Kath – with all due respect, none of that is any of your business. Whether or not she is a siren, or why he does certain things, is irrelevant. It isn’t her job to be the kind of woman you think she should be, it’s her job to be HER. It isn’t his job to be who you think he should be, it’s his job to be HIM.
    And nobody, nobody has to be wrong or bad or f*cked up for you to be justified in not wanting to be with him. If it isn’t a good fit, it isn’t a good fit.



  164.  #164Kath on March 29, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Beloved,
    Thankyou- you stopped me in my tracks! and my ranting!- Yes- I have still a lot to learn xxx



  165.  #165Dominique on March 29, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    Silver – 122 – Maybe it would be good and feel good for you to bring your focus back to you instead, and simply BE with your feelings, really, really BE with them, noticing where they are within, breathing love into them, encouraging them to flow, especially if you find some stuck places which could show up as tension, holding, lumps, and knots, or simply an ache.

    It isn’t so simple really for most of us, since most of us love to turn thoughts over and over in our heads, trying to figure it all out, yet it would be SO very good for you to try to release some of this.

    When you can learn to BE with yourself more and more, YOUR ANSWERS WILL COME. It’s a clarity which comes with this work.

    If you think you hurt someone, it perfectly okay if not advisable to apologize, yet you don’t need to go on and on about it. We all stick our foots in our mouths now and then, and it’s okay. It’s part of being human and real. So you say you’re sorry, and move on. Hugs are good too. 🙂

    How to gauge if you’re leaning forward too much – If you feel icky within AND/OR you sense a pulling away/withdrawal from him. Again the more you can learn to BE with yourself, the easier it will feel to simply know.

    Another part to taking your focus off if him is that he will feel increasingly safe to open up to you and maybe even heal through you if he’s truly the man for you. You don’t want to prod him in any way to talk. He will when he’s ready IF he’s ever ready.

    All of this analyzing and trying to be in his head is not helping you or the situation at all. I totally understand the urges, oh yes do I, yet there is such a peace which will develop inside you when you can learn to let this go.

    I feel sure he’s not watching you and testing you. It’s not usually how a good man works, at least not on a conscious level.

    Can you try to allow all of this flow and unfold as it will?

    And if after all of this, you still feel something from him, all you need to say is this – I understand that this may be all me, yet I feel something between us, maybe something in the way? Is there anything you want to tell me? Say to me? –

    And if he says no, leave it alone. He may need to continue to work things out for himself in his own way. He will come to you if he wants to discuss things. And likely he won’t, for this isn’t how a great many men work. If he does, fabulous.

    YAY on the increase in work. You’ve been wanting and needing this for awhile. Something is apparently opening for you in this area of your life. 🙂

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  166.  #166Dominique on March 29, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    Kath – 136 – This feels exhausting. I don’t think continuing to explain yourself is helpful, FOR YOU. Explaining rarely works anyway, for many if not most people, men and women, tend to make their minds up about things, and that’s that. Plus is such a tiring relationship something you really want? I would encourage you to leave it alone, as Femininwoman did.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  167.  #167Dominique on March 29, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Emerson – 126 – I totally understand how it feels to be seemingly the only one without a wonderful relationship, a man to share your life with, yet you’re so not alone. Maybe like me and so many other women I know, you’re a late bloomer. Your time will come. I feel so sure of this.

    Sending you love sweetheart.

    xxoo



  168.  #168Dominique on March 29, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Azure Blu – 138 – This isn’t small at all but HUGE, a turning point for you and SO very beautiful.

    By the way I love how you write, so vividly, so picturesquely. I can feel myself in your scenes.

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  169.  #169Beloved on March 29, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    (((Kath)))

    I have SO been there….time and time and TIME again, lol. I really appreciate you being receptive, thank YOU.
    Keep the focus on you, taking care of YOU, pampering and cherishing YOU for now.
    If it were me, I’d probably be crying in the corner like a little girl, haha, and pouring an epsom salt bath with a half a bottle of bubble soap.
    Even when I’m the one doing the rejecting, it still burns if the chemistry and attraction was strong.

    And now I’m going to practice what I preach and get off the internet and try to make pull my head out of my butt and get some homework done before my massage this afternoon 🙂



  170.  #170Kath on March 29, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    I’m sorry Sirens!-I know I keep ranting and its exhausting-its almost as though I have to burn myself out- Catherine Wheel!- I have chosen but i didn’t want to!-I love his children and grandchldren and they love me and its been so hard over the last 6mths but now I tried and failed to have a second chance-it feels as though everything I wanted in my life, which I had,has now gone!- I am going to have to look at everything and redo it- and I’m having lunch with his daughter tomorrow! and she knows nothing of this! Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!



  171.  #171Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    So I am feeling annoyed that this guy keeps picking these violent man movies to watch on dates. He wants to see The Gunman with me tonight. I didnt want to be rude but I politely suggested maybe we see Get Hard or Focus instead. Is that un-sireny? I figure they are still male appropriate but maybe more tolerable for me. :p I said whatever he chooses is fine, but really I would rather not see the Gunman. :/



  172.  #172Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    He just called and really doesnt want to bend on his movie choice. He was like “I didnt know you were so ‘sensitive’ about violence.” He was laughing about it but I really dont care for a lot of violence in movies. Ill probably be covering my eyes through it. :p I guess Im stuck because he is the one paying for it and thats what he really wants to see but ugh.



  173.  #173Liquid Light on March 29, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Oh ugh. I’d feel the same way. Seems really insensitive to me. I’d keep my eye on this guy and see if this a trend. That is not very gentlemanly behavior at all. That would really bother me.



  174.  #174Lovergirl on March 29, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    I am again reminded of S, who loves his movies, but will sit there and watch Greece with me if that’s what I want to watch. Sigh….



  175.  #175April Rose on March 29, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    (((((Kath)))))

    As well as all the details of your circumstances and the thought that you are through with him, please notice that you have been triggered.
    You are in the middle of a big emotional trigger, and I just get the sense that you make yourself so rational about it, and justifying your indignance after I wrote to you earlier.

    I only want love for you, dear siren. I am not trying to lecture, and I apologise if it comes across that way.

    You have been triggered, and this is a huge chance to heal if you wish to take the opportunity.
    Big stuff is coming up for you around communication and your frustration with it. I am there too.

    Can you take some time for yourself and really feel into the frustration?

    My favourite Rori tool for healing is feeling the feeling until it changes, then feel the changes, then when you feel a softening inside you, shake your body like a dog coming out of the water!!!
    It’s brilliant, and transforming !



  176.  #176Tereana on March 29, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    Hello, Ladies/Sirens! I love you and miss you.

    And I’ve been having so much “life” happen, that it feels good to have time away from the blog, and freedom to jump back if I feel like it.

    I’m just warming up now, actually. I am warming up here before I go to write something “for real.” Because I have had this book churning inside of me for so many years – the story growing and changing constantly, but the core of it always the same. At different points, I thought I would finally write it, and then not.

    Then I had a really eye-opening experience this weekend. I actually went to New York for a meet-and-greet for the fashion school I applied to. It was a great event, and I had a fabulous time. Oddly enough, I was literally the only fashion student in attendance. But I don’t even know if I will go this year. It is all hypothetical. But the Admissions director I was talking to asked me a VERY important, and very intense question. He said, “What is it you want to do?” Oh my G-d. I was like the deer in the headlights. I just felt like, Wow, there are so many things I want to do! But I could not seem to name one, specifically, that felt connected to the present moment.

    And after that conversation, I realized that I spend a lot of time thinking about what I would like to do IN THE FUTURE, and barely any time thinking about what I want to do RIGHT NOW, unless it’s something like, “What do you want to eat for dinner?” Or, “What shoes should I buy?” Those are little desires I can address. But the deep desire and need to create that bubbles out of me – how do I want that to look RIGHT NOW??

    I feel cut off. I’ve cut myself off, almost intentionally, from my creative impulses since college. Maybe I thought I was supposed to “grow up” and do something “real,” and that that wasn’t it. Maybe I gave up on my dream(s), thinking it was silly or stupid. And here I was, thinking that I was out chasing a Real Life Dream that I have, and then I had to wonder – if given the option, what is it that I really want to DO, Right Now?

    Good question.

    And today, the answer came to me – I want to write. Yes, perhaps become a designer in the future. But right now, and for many years, I have wanted to write my experience. To synthesize, communicate, get my story out there. There is something about my story – and I don’t know what yet, though I have an inkling – that is useful, important. So many times I meet people who have gone or who are going through a similar experience to me. I feel like I have a gift. I can show them that they aren’t alone. I can take my story of an ugly experience and make it beautiful. I can spin straw into Gold. This is what I am called to do…right now. Come what may.

    The rest? Fashion? Am I sure? I am never sure. I always wonder – is that really my dream, or is that me, living someone else’s dream of what would be really cool for me? or what I think is cool in general. But is it that *I* really want to do right now.

    Beauty
    Truth
    Community.

    These, I believe are my top three values. (Inside “Community” is included Family. Family is the first community, beyond ourselves.)

    And now I’ve met VK. Though there are no guarantees. He is still in India. He may never return to the States. I hear him talk about his parents, how they are getting older, and he helps them. I don’t know if he’ll be able to leave them. And I don’t know what I would do if he doesn’t. I love him so much, I almost don’t care. It almost doesn’t matter to me where he is, because I can feel him, as if he is sitting right here with me. But of course I would prefer it much more if he really were sitting right here with me, and I could lean my head on his soft, fuzzy chest and feel so comfortable.

    Yesterday, we had this conversation, about how we feel about each other. And it turned me on so much.

    I prefer not to get too worried about what might or might not happen. It doesn’t make sense to slap artificial labels on things, because, like Rori said, adding the label gives you certain ideas about what that “means.” Whereas the feeling alone doesn’t have any special “ideas.” Being in the moment means you are not worrying about the future – or the past.

    I feel all this with him.

    And so, now, having all this information, being, as I feel, in a creative space, I am ready to write.

    And I came on this blog to “warm up” because I want the way I write, if it’s for a book (I hope) to be published, I want it to be like the way I write on this blog – open, raw, vulnerable. Not trying to prove anything. Just to be who I am and say what I have to say. That is all.

    I’m off to write!



  177.  #177Liquid Light on March 29, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    Something amazing happened today. I found my cord to my sound system. I haven’t been able to find it since I moved back in July. Turns out it was right in front of me the whole time. I have tons of music on my iPhone that I downloaded 2 years ago when I was in my last relationship. I haven’t been able to listen to any of it because its been too painful. But suddenly on the day I find my chord and finally hear the music again, the pain is gone and the pure joy is back. I’ve been singing and dancing to all this fantastic music all day that I absolutely LOVE. OMG, this is so AWESOME!!!



  178.  #178Beloved on March 29, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    Kath – no worries, no apologies necessary. Believe me, I understand pain and fear-induced mental spinning and spiraling 🙂 I do so hope you are doing something good for yourself and being extra gentle.



  179.  #179Indigo on March 30, 2015 at 12:33 am

    April Rose,

    It felt incredibly intriguing to me too, especially since all three women leaving happened within about a month of each other, if you can believe that. I was astounded. I didn’t even realise that I had softened the triggers so much inside me until I really had a look inside.

    Kath,

    Believe me, this is not an easy one. I had many judgments around these three women friends of D’s. But like Beloved and April Rose said, the reality of the situation is that I was being TRIGGERED, and who they were and how they were was not my business. But believe me, this was EXTREMELY difficult. I adored D, and the thought of him having these female friends in his life whom I disliked and around whom I felt so much energy was almost more than I could bear. But the lesson for me with this was that if the man is right for you, if he loves you, you do NOT need to tell him what to do about other women. He will naturally choose you. That is not to say you can’t express your feelings about it and be wise around it, but I just think you have to watch your thoughts/NV’s/beliefs/triggers.

    Having these three women disappear from D’s life, along with every other woman who at one time felt like a “threat” gave me tremendous confidence, and brought about GREAT healing in me.



  180.  #180Indigo on March 30, 2015 at 12:38 am

    Lovergirl 168 & 169,

    I do not think it is un-sireny at all to express that you do not want to see those violent movies. In fact, your hesitation around expressing this feels concerning to me. You have every right to choose what movies or other stimuli you expose yourself to. You do not need to subject yourself to a movie which is upsetting and distressing to you in order to please a man. It should really be the other way around, especially in the early stages of courting, a man should be concerning himself with what pleases YOU. I would absolutely say (sweetly and with a smile) that I do not want to see such a violent movie and I would excuse myself from the date if he insists on it. I have done this before in fact. I’d tell him I don’t want to and I will see him another time. He will very quickly get the message.



  181.  #181Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 12:50 am

    Indigo – 134 – “Men are not necessarily willing or able to hear our explanations.”

    Yes, that is very true. I think “explaining” would not help… only him *seeing* it.. as rori says with leaning back, you can’t tell him or convince him, you must show him.

    but if i don’t say something to bring it to his attention that I’m doing it, I don’t know if he’ll notice or even stick around long enough to see it.

    After being hurt like that, his heart was so shut down. Even the beginning of last year seeing me for a few months, us having sex, when he left he said that he had given up on us a long time ago; I said why are we seeing each other then? You must have had some hope.. his eyes dropped and he nodded and sounded like I was right when he said “maybe!”

    so no explaining.
    and in certain instances I think yes, I will only be able to SHOW him. but I wonder if I could share that I am ready to do this,



  182.  #182Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 1:03 am

    I agree with what April Rose said in 158:
    “Don’t forget, men love to be the hero and feel needed.
    If the woman in question accepts his help and financial support, then he is going to feel good about himself in her presence whatever her personality is like.”

    That is true, and this makes me wonder about Avocado telling me I can stay at the apartment with him…
    There is a difference between a man wanting to give to you and having to give to you, of course..

    In my situation… I feel that he wouldn’t offer for me to stay at his apartment if he didn’t WANT to.
    I think “what if he feels like he HAS to offer that because he can’t let me sleep on the street”…

    YET, he hasn’t followed up asking me “Do you have anywhere to go” or “have you found anything”.

    Earlier, he asked to go along to see the place I found (knowing I was wanting to live together), and for me to send photos, or links to places.

    If staying at his apartment, I mentioned paying half the rent, also (he did not ask or even discuss that, so far…)(I should have not mentioned it, and waited to see what he would say, but whatever.)

    I can see how if I cant afford anything else and CAN’T leave, he might not feel good about it – I think it’s important to maintain my ability to leave – and to also have some other things lined up right now in case… (don’t really have anything but with time I know I can find the right place. people just don’t want to live with kids).

    But, I think he WANTS me there, without making the full commitment of getting a place with me, I think he wants to see how it would go. OR maybe I’m completely wrong – maybe he just wants to keep his options open with the other girl – but, if that were true, why would he move me in to begin with?

    Just thinking out loud..



  183.  #183Indigo on March 30, 2015 at 1:27 am

    ((((Waterfall))))

    I battle with this too at times, life and getting things done can overwhelm me. It is fairly common for sensitive people. I find that taking frequent breaks, both within and between tasks, does help a lot. Not trying to “be productive” for too long. Optimal concentration period tends to be only 20 – 30 minutes. Breaking things up into manageable chunks works well.

    It’s difficult when the world tells us to be “busy” all the time with “important” stuff, but I try to make time every day for doing things that feed my soul and dreaming about what I want for my life.



  184.  #184Indigo on March 30, 2015 at 1:43 am

    April Rose 156,

    I love what you have said here too: “Don’t forget, men love to be the hero and feel needed.”

    D has told me that it makes him feel like more of a man when he does something for a woman. I have noticed the pleasure he takes in it when I ask him for help, it seems to energise him rather than deplete him. In this way they are very different from us. This weekend I asked him for help with my computer and I notice how eager he is to give this help to me, and how he beams when I appreciate him for it. It is the same when I let him pay for things. It seems counter-intuitive but he seems to get great pleasure from it.

    This weekend I had the pleasure of him saying to me, and I like to think it had partly to do with me leaning back and letting him help me, when I told him I was going to be heading back home on Sunday evening, he said kinda sadly “Oh I thought you were staying”. And when I said I’d loved being there, he said “good”.



  185.  #185Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 1:44 am

    Dominique, 164:

    “When you can learn to BE with yourself more and more, YOUR ANSWERS WILL COME. It’s a clarity which comes with this work.”

    Are you saying that when I pay attention to how I feel, my clarity will be in doing what feels good to me?

    “So you say you’re sorry, and move on. Hugs are good too. :)”
    Yes completely agree going on about it would make it worse- just something simple.

    “How to gauge if you’re leaning forward too much – If you feel icky within AND/OR you sense a pulling away/withdrawal from him. Again the more you can learn to BE with yourself, the easier it will feel to simply know.”

    Yes! Thank you for the reminder. I feel icky just cause I feel off balance *thinking* so much. I didn’t feel icky about anything else.. sharing my desires, and getting responses. I feel icky about when I didn’t get responses, though. And I feel icky that he spent the day with another woman today. I feel hurt and angry. And feel like I should go on looking for a place and not planning to stay with him unless he talks to me about it – And then I should ask him if he WANTS me to stay with him, or if he’s just offering out of necessity. Because I don’t feel good unless he truly desires me there. I just hope he’ll be honest.

    “Another part to taking your focus off of him is that he will feel increasingly safe to open up to you and maybe even heal through you if he’s truly the man for you. You don’t want to prod him in any way to talk. He will when he’s ready IF he’s ever ready.”

    Thank you Dominique for reminding me of what I already know, … kinda just need to hear it – but yes definitely not prodding him to talk. He said we’d talk and he’ll get with me when he’s ready, and I definitely don’t push at him about anything, if he doesn’t readily talk about it.

    “There is such a peace which will develop inside you when you can learn to let this go.”

    Yes. I’ve been keeping busy the last few days.. which helps ME disconnect/not feel his pull so much (can tell he’s thinking about things a lot).

    Things have been going GREAT for me lately! Aside from some of this anxious thinking, when I’m busy, I feel good. I hope me not initiating anything makes a difference. I know we’ve talked about some big stuff lately and I think it’s making him nervous.

    He hasn’t spoken to me all weekend, and he spent today back in our town (he was out of town for work and took our child), canoeing on the lake with that girl and her kid.

    I’m hoping this is just him trying to see what he feels, and sort of taking advantage of one last opportunity to hang out with her before (he thinks) we will be living in the same apartment. ….. I don’t know.
    I am really curious to hear what he has to say, but I’m barely going to pay attention until he gets around to it. I’ll just be busy moving things to storage, selling things, organizing, looking for a place, until he gets back to me.

    When I said I feel like he’s testing me, I mean that being VERY aware of my long term relationship with MILW despite some extreme behavior, I’m not sure that he trusts that HE is #1. I feel like he’s taking time to see if he can trust me. Maybe I’m making it all up, but usually my intuition is right on.

    But I don’t like that he’s still distracted with another woman while doing so!

    “Can you try to allow all of this flow and unfold as it will?”
    Trying! Argh! I don’t want to lose him. but my NOT caring is what helps. Thankfully I’m always taking baby steps towards knowing I can take him or leave him.

    I don’t know what to say to him, though, about him seeing another woman – if he wants to see me.. I don’t feel comfortable with that. Hmm, maybe I should say that, .. I really enjoy spending all this time with you, but … ^^^

    “And if after all of this, you still feel something from him, all you need to say is this – I understand that this may be all me, yet I feel something between us, maybe something in the way? Is there anything you want to tell me? Say to me? –”

    THAT is PERFECT, Dominique, and simple. Thanks for being there, you know how when we start thinking too much, it’s nearly impossible to access the things we KNOW. Brains get scrambled somehow.
    I am a tiny bit afraid of that focusing on the negative, though, even if there isn’t something between us, those words trigger an internal inventory “what’s between us”… buuuut he might come out with something important that needs dealt with.

    “And if he says no, leave it alone.”
    Yes. Definitely.

    “YAY on the increase in work. You’ve been wanting and needing this for awhile. Something is apparently opening for you in this area of your life. :)”

    THANK YOU for celebrating with me!! Yes, yes yes!

    <3 thank you for taking time to read and respond, Dominique, I greatly value your input – you always seem to have such a flowing way about you, just the right, simple, sweet thing.

    Love to you!

    Love to you.

    xxoo



  186.  #186Azure Blu on March 30, 2015 at 5:00 am

    Dominique #15
    Ahhhh… thank you for
    saying this is HUGE…
    My son has been more and more talkative this
    weekend
    More than ever before…
    His heart seems to be opened to me…
    there were a few other things
    i had said to him earlier in the week
    about…
    Me: “I know this is getting in your business…
    but I just wanted to let you know…
    It’s your aunts and grandmothers birthday…
    Maybe you wanted to go in on a gift with me?”
    I waited for his response,,,
    He looked a little frustrated…
    Me:I smiled “you look a little frustrated.. you can let me know what you want to do.”
    I let it drop and walked away in a kind loving manner…
    I think he is used to me pushing for an answer
    right away…
    I gave him respect by dropping it and
    giving him time to process
    Last night he came and talked for quite awhile
    about the used motorcycle he looked at,
    His work and some of the guys he’s working with…
    he helped me put the fridge back together (I cleaned out the inside this weekend)
    He said: “thanks Mom for talking to me… I really enjoyed it….” before he walked away…
    He has complained many times that
    when he was growing up…
    NOT feeling heard by ME or his sister-
    feeling invisible in the family!!!

    Mmmmm…. I am allowing Him HIS space…
    NOT controlling the conversation
    OR his reactions…
    It must make HIM feel respected
    SOOOO HUGE!!!
    I feel sooo sparkly, warm and happy
    That these Rori tools are helping Me
    change
    which is healing Me and MY son!!!



  187.  #187Azure Blu on March 30, 2015 at 5:03 am

    Dominique
    I meant #165
    I feel so happy that you like my writing…
    thank you for the encouragement!
    oxoxo



  188.  #188Lovergirl on March 30, 2015 at 7:58 am

    @178 Indigo-

    I feel like you are right and this is something I need to work on. I guess I am going back to “doormat” type behaviors and going along with what HE wants just to please a man and be “nice”. When I saw him, he at first said he had changed his mind on the movie because he decided it was a “test” from me and that we would go see whatever I wanted or I’d be holding it over his head. I then became overly accommodating/apologetic and said oh no, we can watch your movie, it’s fine, it’s not a big deal.

    So he took me out to a nice BBQ place, followed by watching HIS choice of a movie. The movie was pretty good, but there were scenes where I was definitely covering my eyes and he was like “are you okay? Do you want to leave?” Of course I said no. I wasn’t wanting to leave in the middle of a movie. When we left the movie, he promised that next time I would get to choose whatever we watch.

    Meanwhile, I am still feeling so much anxiety regarding S. I just can’t seem to shake it. I haven’t heard from him in over 3 days and that is the longest its ever been from him. It just keeps getting further and further apart and I feel so awful and abandoned. I miss him terribly. I keep wondering is this for real? Is he really going to stop wanting to see me for good? It’s killing me. 🙁



  189.  #189Femininewoman on March 30, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Lovergirl it is not killing you. Maybe you need to just curl up like a foetus and just cry to let some of the the anxiety out. If you decide that it is killing you then it will.



  190.  #190laura on March 30, 2015 at 9:15 am

    hello sirens…

    I am….

    catching up on everyone’s entries….joys, trials, triumps and challenges…

    I will be more interactive once i can make more space emotionally in me….

    i have been very busy internally and externally….

    much input coming in

    the man ….

    finding out more about him

    carving out more understanding between us

    watching myself push him away …and having him with his self respect define what he does and will not accept…

    somehow this is a pattern from way back with me…push away….. storm…. lightning ….break thru…resolutions…

    its as if i need to do this…to become really truthful with my fears and responses and ‘judgements’ to get to more of the truth of who i am and who they are…to let him see more of who ‘i’ am or the stories that circulate….

    we have agreed to be Friends and Lovers…I love both parts at this moment…

    The Friends reminds me when i start nit picking and judging him in my mind…to ask myself is that how i TREAT a friend? …..
    is that how i would allow myself to be TREATED by a friend?

    what is coming up in me that i need to be so violent in my mind towards another…

    in this process i am finding out much about myself
    and him

    i am amazed by his strength and wisdom…and feel grateful for this opportunity to grow and heal….



  191.  #191Indigo on March 30, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Lovergirl,

    I agree with Feminine Woman. I know it can feel like it is killing you because there were times I felt just like that with D. But really, you CAN soothe these feelings if you would only believe that. A good cry helps. Even a wail or crashing to the floor or curling up into a ball and sobbing. For me talking it out with a good friend helps A LOT. You have been through a lot. You will get through this.



  192.  #192lovetodance on March 30, 2015 at 9:37 am

    lovergirl

    although this feels like you won’t survive this…it is actually a necessary step to healing….

    when all the anxiety and pain and hurt comes up….its touching exactly the place where we need to feel and move thru…

    i don’t know if thats helpful

    all i feel is that you are VERY strong and resilient …and really deserve a relationship/relationships that are 100% supportive of YOU!

    and of course…being that 100% supportive of ourselves is the most beautiful and difficult first steps…

    I really agree with indigo about your right to not subject yourself to material movie or otherwise that makes you uncomfortable….to be with a man….or anyone….

    it is interesting and pleasant for me to read how it did play out…with him being concerned for your feelings and reactions….

    you get to choose who and what is good for you bright siren!



  193.  #193Silver-Tongued Siren on March 30, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Phew!

    I feel SO NERVOUS RIGHT NOW.

    My stomach is sucking my whole body in. lol.

    Ok, it’s controllable. But, I do feel nervous.

    I think it’s because Avocado was feeling nervous. I pick up other peoples feelings so easy I don’t even know they’re not mine, I just feel them. It felt hard to breathe, keep my body language open, mirror him, unzipper my heart. I was only about 50% successful.

    He asked me what my plan was, about moving, and I told him what I’ve done since he was gone – that I’ve talked to a bunch of people, and none of them want to live with kids, or they have dogs that don’t like kids. He understands since he had the exact same experience, ever since he’s been responsible for having our child with him every other weekend.
    He said to let him know if I need to stay at the apartment. He said he thinks it’s a good short term solution, short term because it’s so TINY. (and his roommate has a loud kid, whom she yells at all the time, is up at 4 in the morning doing things, and has her boyfriend there all the time also).

    We also mentioned some places (entire houses) $800 but they are quite far far far from here, (and I could only get it if splitting rent). He mentioned a place he thought was less, around there. I can’t move out there alone though because I have no support system out there for childcare for the odd hours I need.

    Also, I am about to pick up a new client that will need me to be there at 11 and 3am, and I can only do that if I have help with my youngest – someone to be there while he is sleeping. I mentioned that, and he said “well you know I can always help you with that”. I said “yeah, but that would be half the week” – what I meant was, I would feel unhappy with not having our child that long, every week, as well as concerned about that looking bad on me in court – should he take advantage of it and say that I haven’t spent all my allotted time with our child. So, I don’t want to change our schedule to that degree unless we’re living together.

    While talking about staying at the apartment, I also said “I would love to be there with you, but.. I just don’t.. want to do that unless we’re trying to be together, …because.. I want it to feel comfortable.”

    I explained that I really would love to be there with him.
    I asked him if he wanted to get a place together, if it’s the same or less, than his rent right now. He said “no..” looking off the other direction. I said “so you don’t want to get a place together at all?” he said “not right now…” I asked “why not?” (I feel like I’m not doing a very good job with feeling messages or anything else while I’m feeling nervous.)
    He said, “we have some things we need to talk about”.
    (like what?) he said, about our child, and I said “do you mean ..things about our child that we want for him that you want us to agree on?” he said yes… I am guessing he means vaccinations and school.. and I don’t know what else. I said, “well, we can talk anytime you want to. and, I’m open to hearing anything that would make you feel better.”

    We could’ve talked right then, as he didn’t work today, but he wanted to get back to some things he hadn’t gotten done over the weekend.. (while he was out of town working and back in town spending a day with another woman). He asked if we could talk tomorrow. So, tomorrow afternoon it is, later in the evening.

    I’ve got a LOT to get done, before then- And I will have a friend lined up to stay with for a few nights, and keep looking for another place.

    Rather than saying “I don’t want to stay there unless we’re going to try to be together”, (not a bad thing, but) I wish I had communicated that I only want to be there if I feel comfortable there, – and I don’t feel comfortable right now because I don’t know if he’s offering just out of concern or because he truly WANTS me there.

    time for that later. More packing and moving now.



  194.  #194Sunflower on March 30, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Has Rori written something on dating a single dad? Any ideas Siren on what to read on it.



  195.  #195Azure Blu on March 31, 2015 at 5:40 am

    Sunflower…
    Have you looked at the blog archives?
    Not sure if there is something specifically about single dads…
    Now that I think about it… at my age… 63yrs.
    I am dating a single dad… his daughter (she lives with him and doesn’t drive) is 28 but has been struggling emotionally and he says is like a teenager now…
    She takes up quite a bit of his time… but slowly he has been able to get her to be more independent…
    I have NEVER suggested that he rearrange their schedule for me… but I did start CDing after 4 months saying…”of course your daughter comes first, and I respect you soooo much for your care and love for her… you need all the time it takes for her healing… in the meantime it will feel best for me to start dating others again.”
    We are back to being exclusive after 4 months…

    While dating a single dad does have it’s unique challenges… really… anything you might need to know and practice
    I think you can discover in the archives here… participate in the blog (we’d love to have you) and get Rori’s coaches and/or her DVDs.



  196.  #196Victoria on March 31, 2015 at 6:00 am

    Azure darling,
    has he re-surfaced?
    You know it is very very challenging to live with a relative who has a mental illness. I have a friend who is schizophrenic, who lives with his sister… she is a saint. She lives with him and makes sure he gets his medication by putting it in his food, because otherwise he decides once in a while that he does not want to take the medication. And then, when he fails to take his medication, he becomes a different person, and slowly but surely becomes psychotic. It is a great ordeal for the relatives, and you have been great by giving him the space to be able to make her a priority, you have a very generous heart.



  197.  #197Azure Blu on March 31, 2015 at 9:01 am

    {{{Victoria…}}}
    your understanding touches my heart…
    I didn’t think of it that way…
    Me being the patient one… my generous heart…
    brought tears to my eyes..
    thank you for putting it in that perspective…

    Yes, schizophrenia is a life long issue…
    my sister has struggled with it since she was 28…
    refusing to be on medication – she runs her own company and does ok… I haven’t had a relationship with her for 20 years…she has a husband which is good…
    Hearing all that Spirit goes thru with his daughter has shed more light on my sisters condition…
    actually the rest of the family refused to acknowledge her schizophrenia until recently… I continued to gently point out… this is why she is sooo difficult…
    don’t take it personal… but also hold your boundaries.
    oxoxo



  198.  #198Azure Blu on March 31, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Victoria,,,
    thank you for asking about Spirit….
    He resurfaced on Friday (a week since we talked or saw each other)…
    You had mentioned to go ahead and see if he was ok…
    Many on this blog said not to contact him…

    My guy friend said…Clara, you’ve dated Spirit for 8 months… don’t leave the relationship all up to him!
    YOU are NOT needy… act like you care!!
    So I did text him… he did text me back…
    something still felt a little off…
    I invited him to my family get together (something that he had wanted but I had said no until I met his)
    so I softened on this issue…as I am practicing relaxing, respecting, appreciating and opening my heart… this time around!!

    An incident occured the last nite we were together… he was putting some tango lessons on my phone and my OLD Plenty of Fish profile with some of the guys I dated popped up… Sooo weird!!!
    I had deleted my profile 4 weeks ago (he knows this) and hadn’t been on the site on my phone for a month…
    I felt confused… I didn’t want thim to miss trust what I had told him… getting offline has been problematic with other CDs… You’re off but it looks like you’re still on…
    They question you… YOU don’t believe they’re off…
    Arggg!!!
    I said you know I’m not online… and let it go…
    In My mind he seemed ok with it cause he didn’t say anything…
    BUT MY CDing, for the past 4 months, is a VERY touchy subject for him…
    I believe it is important NOT to let incidents like this fester… It can be festering under the surface for years… I have been working on being BRAVE (this takes MUCH courage for me to talk about things like this)
    Unzippering my heart… showing My love and care for HIS heart…
    show that I am worried about our relationship…
    SHOW that I love him… Action goes both ways…
    Whether this bothered him or not… it *IS* bothering me…
    Sooo… I textd him this morning:
    “Darling Spirit…
    i felt shocked that my POF profile was stilll on my phone… I had deleted my profile a month ago…
    I’m in love with you Spirit.. I’m not dating anyone else and I’m not looking… Trust is a very big deal…
    I don’t want anything like a missunderstanding to jepordize that.”

    I’ll let you know what he says!!!



  199.  #199Lovetodance on March 31, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Soooo beautiful azure
    So honest and vulnerable
    The internal work you have been and are doing…… So apparent and healing
    Big love and hug to you!



  200.  #200Azure Blu on March 31, 2015 at 11:32 am

    {{{Lovetodance}}} mmmm…. thank you for these words…
    they feel warm and reassuring to my heart…
    oxoxox



  201.  #201Victoria on April 1, 2015 at 1:18 am

    Azure,
    I would be so embarassed in the situation you described with the POF profile. I think you did very well to explain and reassure him that you are not dating any longer. I think fidelity is extremely important to people, and it is worth making an extra effort to preserve the trust.
    As to the other topic about whether you leaned forward by calling him… I think we need to show we care about the other person, just like your friend said.
    I think I told here on the blog that a while ago I had a whole day in which F. did not call me, and I was freaking out, and then I discovered at the end of the day that I had myself accidentally blocked his number… I would have never discovered that if I had not tried to call him myself at the end of the day, and when I unblocked him it turned up he had called 5 times and was freaking why he’s been blocked.
    Anyway, I am not a great fan of having very strict boundaries. I know this goes against the book… As a matter of fact, I see that I totally changed my boundary/expectation (whatever you call it) about punctuality to accomodate him. Nothing bad happened out of it, sometimes he keeps the time, sometimes he does not, the difference is that now I don’t care when I am late to meet him… I thought this was a big deal originally, now I just know this is how he is, and I am not fighting it, one way or another. I am also slightly bored with him now that I do not have something to be fiery angry about. We’ll see.



  202.  #202Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 1:58 am

    Victoria…
    Thank you again for your reassuring and comforting words…

    I feel anxious… I feel I exposed my heart…

    Such Important, Excellent practice for ME…
    being vulnerable with a man I care deeply for
    Is VERY difficult for me…
    what I can hear my Confused Voices say
    I dont want him to see my ugly, black,
    disgusting heart…
    I feel angry at me…
    at life
    I don’t want anyone to get close
    I dont want to break down my walls
    I’ve been protecting myself for ALLLL these years
    It feels GOOD to KNOW Love IS miserable and heartbreaking,
    I certainly DONT WANT
    a loving, caring relationship!!!!!!

    I’ve been sitting with these feelings
    for 2 days now…
    just sitting with them…
    listening to them… letting them have their say…
    loving this part of me…

    this is working… my experiment of
    NOT CDing (Spirit asked me not to)
    and only seeing Spirit…
    It is bringing up alll these triggers
    and RAGE and Extreme FEAR
    Me falling deeper and deeper
    in LOVE with ALLLL of *ME*



  203.  #203Victoria on April 1, 2015 at 3:01 am

    Azure,
    I know what you mean… Yes, it is so comfortable to think that love is miserable and heart breaking and the man we love is set out to hurt us, to string us along to give us crumbs.
    There is this site called “baggage reclaim” – I read it for a while some years ago, and now I realize it is so damaging to think of you as a victim in this way and to see the man as a villian.
    I also have a lot of “unwinding” of old, damaging ideas to do…
    I am sending you love and hugs



  204.  #204Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 3:20 am

    Victoria…
    interesting you brought up about
    accidently blocking F…
    That was what my guy friend mentioned
    when he told me to text Spirit…
    He Said: “Weird things happen to our smart phones…
    Maybe Spirit accidently blocked you and
    he doesn’t know it!!!”

    How cool is that… F being late isn’t an issue anymore!! Love how it has taken ALLL the angst out of it…
    interesting that you’re feeling bored…



  205.  #205Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 3:25 am

    {{{Victoria}}}}
    huggs to you too…
    gifts from the universe
    all this unwinding…
    mostly it doesn’t feel like a Gift?>>??>!!!
    ;->



  206.  #206Victoria on April 1, 2015 at 3:31 am

    Azure,
    Phones play all sorts of tricks. I also had a situation in which I could not send texts to F because I had wrongly saved his number (after changing hand-sets)but thought he was ignoring me…
    I realize when I am too focused on not leaning forward I have so much stress around it that I start making stupid mistakes… I do not treat F. like I would treat any other human being.
    With him, everything he does is such a big deal, it all means something… I catch myself attributing meaning to ridiculous things… And I feel a bit schysophrenic – a part of me knows this is stupid, and another part is just SO SENSITIVE.
    Azure,
    I have not changed completely. I am like 50% changed. Or, to put it differently, half of me is a siren, and the other half is God knows what… a female dog? I was actually looking for another image, but this is the first thing that came to my mind… strange.



  207.  #207Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 3:54 am

    Victoria…
    Yes!!! everything Spirit does or Doesn’t do
    I blow way out of proportion…
    I’ve gotten a little better this time around…

    Turning all the love and attention to ME
    and MY feelings and the healing *I* can get
    from his withdrawing…

    Sooo… after i shared with him the
    confusion over the POF cell phone issue on Tues. Morning…
    nothing from him, no text, no phone call…

    Just as everyone predicted…
    He is NEEDING his MAN time to
    figure out if he’s in this or not…

    Now I will gently lean back,
    respect his space
    take care of ALLLLL the long list of
    stuff and stuff I sooo NEED to get done…

    My heart is trying to stay open and
    feel his love and energy coming towards me…
    but the other part of me
    wants to get ready for the break up…
    Him saying he thinks our religious and political
    beliefs are way too different…
    (something I have been saying from the beginning…
    BUT he convinced me we could work it out)

    On friday it’s 2 weeks since we’ve seen each other…
    I’m sticking to my plan of giving this 2 months (6 weeks left) to see what CAN happen…
    I am more grounded in self love…
    more able to receive his love…



  208.  #208Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 4:04 am

    Victoria…
    Ahhhh YES… the half Siren, lovely Goddess
    other half wild dog b*tch!!!
    :-))



  209.  #209Victoria on April 1, 2015 at 4:39 am

    Azure,
    My heart hurts for you… You are grieving the loss of your love before you have lost it… But then again, he is not here with you right now, he is simply not here, and there is an empty space. I so wish it was different, for you, and for me, and for all women here, I wish the love we need would just come our way without us needing to lean back, I wish love could just come towards us irrespective of whether we lean forth or back or go sideways, if only it could it just be an ocean of love, whichever way we look.



  210.  #210Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 5:37 am

    Azure and Victoria,

    Following your discussion this am. Treating them like no one else gets treated. Trying to achieve balance in the relationship.

    Azure—sitting with the ugly black feelings, interesting for me too.

    I had a free session with Sami. We did something similar of sitting with feelings as a way of neutralizing them. I have tried avoiding feelings at all around MusicTd. This makes me feel like running. Of course because of our interests and impossiblility of avoiding him completly another way needs to be found. I was very surprised at how I felt after our session where I sat with my feelings aroud seeing him. So Azure you are on the right track here.

    I’m comming to the end I think, of my emailing with lawguy. He kept mentioning his x wife and related to me that he sees her, calls messages etc about 4-5 times a week. I sensed from earlier that was the case.
    Interesting, her new bf has bailed on the moving in together. If I was him I’d probaby bail too with the tall nordic, exmarine, lawguy, towering over them all. In fact I’m not even going to bother hinting about meeting. I’m not interested in joining their little group game. or whatever it is. Comments?



  211.  #211Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 5:42 am

    Victoria,

    I so hear your wish for us all to have the love we need come toward us. Remember to put in your equation that we all need to be the love we would like to receive. I have to remind myself of that every day.



  212.  #212Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 5:49 am

    MisTea..
    thank you for your sharing…
    and sooo nice to hear how Sami had you sitting with YOUR feelings!
    It was something Indigo had shared here on Siren Island…
    to just sit with them… invite them in… let them move around… in and out… accept and honor them…
    it’s the ignoring and rejection that makes them BIGGER…
    It does seem to be working… It is actually calming Me down… taking away the anxiety I was feeling, dissipating the fear…
    Ahhhh…. the Rori tools are magical!



  213.  #213Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 5:52 am

    mistea…
    sooo lovely to hear how your heart and your intuition are VERY healthy!!!
    Ahhh… the triangle of Love…
    I think it sounds VERY healthy to avoid alllll of that…

    you’ve been working on extricating yourself from the MusicTD triangle… you, him and his music…
    ahhhh another trigger to look at deeply…



  214.  #214Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 5:56 am

    Victoria…
    Interesting enough… because of the Rori tools…
    I actually can feel LOVE all around ME…
    I often notice, during the day, all the love that is coming towards me from…
    MY friends,
    My cat,
    MY family
    My community,
    My heart
    Mother Nature
    neighbors
    I do feel More love than ever before…
    Precious, heart expanding moments of
    lusciousness!!!



  215.  #215Victoria on April 1, 2015 at 6:46 am

    Mistea, Azure,
    I do not feel like love. Not right now anyhow, I feel like an over-worked middle aged woman who needs a coffee :-).

    Mistea,
    The really good looking guys always have more than one woman around… If lawguy is the tall nordic exmarine type (sounds very attractive to me) then it is highly unlikely that he will be all alone, so whether it is the ex wife or just another POF lady or his next door neighbour – there will be women around, and plenty of messaging that you are not aware of.
    So what?



  216.  #216Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Azure 213,

    Oh my, I never even considered that!
    Of course, I must admit my own complicity here with my fear of intimacy most likely setting me up. I can seeit so clearly with lawguys scenario as an inllustration. Thanks a bunch for your insight.



  217.  #217Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 6:52 am

    mistea…
    and looking closely at my triangle with Spirit…
    Me, Spirit, his daughter, golf…
    mmmmm what is that called?
    Square? ;->



  218.  #218Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 7:02 am

    Victoria 215,

    Of course, he’s alluded to this in our discussions of where we came from etc.

    I suppose I could take it as the “thrill of the hunt.” Maybe I could take this in lue of coffee!
    It certainly has enhanced my writing chops.

    In fact I may be coming to the conclusion that I don’t want a foreever man. I may want sone indepth deeply satisfying moments and then move on. I’ve got some interests that are deeply meaningful and satisfying as well. I’ll have to reflect on this.

    Hope you get your coffee equivlent soon!



  219.  #219Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 7:13 am

    Azure 217,

    Oh well, you know what they say about us humans, infinite potential and infinite possibilities!

    But I thought the Tango was your newest passion?

    You, Spirit, dtr, golf and tango. Very interesting.



  220.  #220Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 7:42 am

    Yes, i guess I don’t have to take this seriously at all. As in Rori’s talk above this isn’t love it’s merely playing around. I have no agenda here as I don’t have the birthing of children time bomb any more. This is based entirely on what I want to do.

    I’ve got a recording of Rimsky-Korsakov’s Scheherazade playing in the background. I believe S. told stories night after night for a serious reason. To save her life.
    In what way am I saving’ my life here?

    In what way am I feeling that if I get envolved in an intimate relationship will this be the death of me psychically?

    Intriguing questions for me as I am committed to living life to the fullest and having fun while doing it. The other ones are, helping people, making money, and performing music with as much passion as I can muster.



  221.  #221Mistea1 on April 1, 2015 at 7:54 am

    Victoria,

    Yes, I plan on doing the Scheherazade thing with stories and see what happens. Either way I win something. I can work up the stories and/or explore lawguy if he’s intrigued.

    Yes, he is good looking and probably rather intimidating when he wanted to be as a trial lawyer based on height alone. He keeps throwing in these little tidbits about his ‘materal’ possessions, like the Ferrarri he used to own. He has apparently downgraded to a Cadillac. Good grief who cares, but it makes for good play material.

    It’s good practice for me to rub shoulders with materialists now and again.



  222.  #222Azure Blu on April 1, 2015 at 8:01 am

    mistea…
    Sooo right!!!
    No children involved… so keeping it fun and flirty
    IS sooo important!
    Mmmmm…. this law guy does sound s*xy!!!
    Mmmm… i’ve never driven/ridden in a Ferrari!!
    Yes… it IS sensuous rubbing elbows with guys that have quite a bit of $$$
    ;->



  223.  #223SHARRIE on June 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    I’m sitting here crying my heart out…thank you for posting this…yes, I, too have loved someone in my head on and off again for 10 years…excuses? Oh there were all kinds 9f excuses over the years as he dumped my butte to run off to chase after younger women, young enough to be his daughter or granddaughter, or his exwife…then he would show up again to date me…recently, we were making plans to get married and buy a house…that lasted two days…now, he isn’t speaking to me cause I was asking about his doctor giving him medicine for his gastric distress, he told me to mind my own business, I told him off for such a rude remark …and now he has cut off communication. ..this blog made me see that I never had anything all of these years…just a make believe relationship. ..