Can We Learn Something From The “Other Woman”?

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Jacqueline Brielle and I’ve been emailing back and forth, since I was so fascinated by her story, and her article on Divine Caroline . So – if we let go of our judgments about “strippers” and “the other woman” – is there anything in here that’s helpful?  I think so…let me know your reactions…

From Jacqueline:

I was 41 when an undercover detective told me to sell my house and move – to get out while I still could. He said the tire shop next door was run by major drug dealers who did over a couple of million dollars a year in business and to just…run.

What could I do? The house was in such disrepair that it was literally falling down, uninsurable. I had to fight to stay and rebuild it to sell it at a profit, or to even find another house to go live in. My bar bouncer friend – 6’4″ and 290 pounds…had the answer. Strip! And he literally showed me how. How to wiggle just my butt, how to tease up to the reveal of the breasts, turning and slowly letting the bra straps fall off the shoulder and how to seduce with just a look, a flip of my hair. He was hilarious and brilliant!

This is the story of how that job would change my life forever, because a short time later when the tire shop’s guard dog’s head got blown off 10′ from my bedroom window by a shotgun, I took that officer seriously. It would take me three years, but I got out.

Only problem was I met a man, a married man and getting out of that would take much longer than getting out of the house!

So, back to my night job at the bar. The scene is set by a gorgeous Greek man, George, who sits me at a table, gets me a wine and leaves me to enjoy the acts. When he returns I dryly say, “Hmm, can’t see me humping my ass for no one dollar bills.” And he says, oh, my dear as beautiful as you are, that won’t be necessary, we’ll do private dances only.

A week later I have bikini bottoms and latex covered nipples and my nightgowns in a locker; it’s a very hostile environment, girls jostling, stoned, cooing, drinking and trying on dresses from the “dress lady” who shows up with a rack of glitter. I get $2.00 for each drink a man orders me, it’s wrapped around the stem of my glass like a bow. The men don’t seem to notice and I tell the bartender make it 90% water and 10% wine to turn it red – and when they don’t I just say, “Honey, I’ve got to go change,” and dump it into the sink in the dressing room. They love it when you change….and strip all over again. So, I manage to avoid bar fights and I get privileges – like only working from 7 p.m. til midnight and getting to sit in my chair while the other girls have to go to the stage. It’s fun, and it’s eye opening. One guy comes in on his honeymoon, picking up takeout pizza next door – just a quick trip in, but you can tell, he’s an addict and he’ll be back. Sometimes guys cross the line, especially if they think they can. They pull your shirt up, nip on your skin and after a certain point they’re gonna want more; and that’s the point at which I leave. Even if it’s to the sound of George shouting at me to get back over there.

I was very successful as a dancer at 43. I got picked over the hottest young thing in the club a lot of the time. I made between $500 and $800 a week in those 10 hours…some guys would leave and come back….because they said I seemed so excited to hear/see them. (I’ve modeled, too, so I fit the picture of the blonde haired blue eyed princess with a bad girl twist.)

And that success I have reflected on – it was a combo of being all feminine energy, a massage therapist – so very easily I could touch them in a powerful way; not massage but energy. And I found it to be a blast (I’d get tips when I was on the small stage just doing exercise stretches!) Mostly, I’d just be so interested in them and their story – it was ALL about them when they were with me and they loved it, and actually I did too. Clearly defined roles, almost like role playing. Even the dressing room dramas were a hoot and mostly fun for me – it’s another WORLD in there!

One night I had 4 guys show up just for me and the Greek guy was saying to me “you have to give a little to each and leave them wanting a little more.” I was learning.

Then, one day I came in – ready, which all the other girls would show up and make themselves up for 2 hours – and some guy spoke to me and gave me his number when I said I wanted to put a roof on my house which was the reason I was there. But the day girls scared me a lot, and as I did not want a cat fight I backed off. This guy was a majorly big spender – no dances, just a power player with like 4 to 6 girls at his table. I let it go, called the number he gave me once, got a voice mail and never called back.

About 4 months later (I’d left and gone back) I walk in and he’s there. THIS time I knew how to play the game, just sat down at the table, got a drink and waited. I leaned back til he “dismissed” the other girl with a tip and five hours later we left from that bar and I never went back. The Greek guy yelled at me for like 20 minutes and then said, “oh, go on, he’s waiting for you in the parking lot.” I think he was watching outside on the cameras, and in a way testing the guy for me – George was a great guy, to me anyway.

The guy came home with me, we had sort of sex and he goes to leave and I know now that he was expecting me to ask for money. I had no notion of doing that – I wasn’t a hooker, of any sort. It was just in the moment fun. So, he gives me this 20 pound bag of dog food for my 100 lb. shepherd, says he’ll call me tomorrow and leaves. And I was hooked. And so was he! Because the next week he gave me $500 and asked me not to go dance; and 3 months later he left his phone bill out for his wife to find – and left home.

But he went back to clear up their business accounts, and she took to bed sick to be diagnosed with returned cancer. Then it became how could he leave a sick wife? And, after about 4 years and couples counseling I knew marriage wasn’t going to be workable and wanted to move on.

I actually had a minor league ballplayer wanting to marry me, or at least ready to marry someone and dating me. Then the married man panicked – he moved back out and seperated; I broke it off with the ball player.

After 4 more years of struggle, while he kept me on “hold” (that means a check was in the mail every week in polite speak) for over a year some girl contacted me in May and said they were married; while he said she was a “psycho bitch” he’d never slept with. However he did, indeed, marry her that August.

I completely underestimated how powerfully society holds in contempt the other woman. I wrote Dr. Tracey’s Love Advice column that first year and she told me, and she was right. I was pretty naive. I thought true love and his happiness would win out. And it did, until he had grandchildren. Even his daughter’s telling him they’d rather he be dead than with me wasn’t enough to stop it. But the oldest daughter going to jail and him having to take temporary custody of the three grandchildren did.

I had to let go without really knowing why. The last time I saw him he’d told me to hold on until the court hearing in May to get out of the custodial issues. The next time I heard from him the psycho girl was calling me, threatening to do anything she could to hold onto her man.

At that point, the financial support just stopped. And so did our communication.

My sister told me more than once, you may “win” over children, over wives, and over house and home….but you’ll never win over grandchildren. Dr. Tracy said, “mistresses are among the most reviled of women, they almost never become wives, and there’s nothing sadder than an old and lonely mistress. Get out.”

Just like with the tire shop it may have been more luck than sense, but I did get out and moved on. I still wonder how women can believe they own a man, refuse to grant him a divorce, relish the entitlement of being the “wife,” and disregard entirely his happiness. I originally wrote about that @ Divine Caroline, here:–other.

About a year into my current relationship I decided I wanted to heal, and I wanted closure. I went searching for how to survive a breakup, and found a lot of advice, even witchcraft spells to bring back lost love. The I came across a woman who said, “closure is overrated, put him on the back of your horse and carry him around with you.” That’s how I found Rori Raye’s programs and her tools. She listened to my story and said I was a good writer with a compelling story – that she thought I had a book in there somewhere. I haven’t found the book, yet, but I have written this story, as it is my story to tell, and your story to perhaps identify with or find some special message in. And, happily – it’s a story still being written!

You can find Jacqueline on her own blog at :

Also – I think telling our stories is pretty valuable for us emotionally – not digging stuff up, but as a way of “clearing” through it…so – if you have a story you’d like me to post, let me know!  Love, Rori


  1.  #1Daria on September 27, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Like! lol

    very brave!

  2.  #2Tina on September 27, 2010 at 3:46 pm


  3.  #3Jacqueline on September 27, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Thanks, Daria…and Tina. I’ve been holding my breath! and this is what I meant – if someone somehow finds some kind of meaning or relevance to their own situation here that helps them, it’s a story worth telling, no matter how scary it is. Brave? I love that!!!! as the first comment, too!

    Thank you Rori, for your open mind and open heart.


  4.  #4BarbinOz on September 27, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    This my OWN personal point of view so please don’t attack me.

    Any woman that gets involved with a married man is courting danger. You may not like it, you may think he deserves to be happy and the wife has no rights or say in the matter, however she is the one he MARRIED (you know the ring Rori is always talking about) for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse in sickness and health and all of that, you ARE the other woman, whether you like that or not.

    This post has really triggered shit for me. Yes I was the wife spoken of here while my husband had other women on the go. The good little doormat wife looking after the home and the children.

    Karma is all I can say, you cannot build your happiness on another persons misery. Instead of wondering about his happiness, maybe you should have considered his wife’s feelings first before getting involved.

  5.  #5BarbinOz on September 27, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    And now I am off to work on this lovely spring morning and instead of feeling good I am feeling so FU**ING angry. Like its all about the other woman and the poor little husband……gggrrrr………..poor poor them eh?


  6.  #6Daria on September 27, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    sooo scary for me Still!! this eye contact step is something i’ve been babystepping on forever and i feel frustrated that i don’t have it “easy” yet:

    Okay – now try this (try it even if you’re in a
    relationship right now):

    You’re at the market. A man looks at you. You
    freeze. You have a pimple on your chin and your
    hair is flyaway and flat. You look down at the

    First Step – Stop.

    Stop looking away in fear.

    Resolve THIS INSTANT that you will try
    something new.

    And that new thing is to OPEN YOUR HEART.

    Surprise yourself. Look up from the
    cauliflowers and look the man in the eye.


    Now – Hold eye contact for 5 seconds.

    Yes, 5 seconds.

    Feels like forever the first time, but when you
    get used to it, it’s do-able.

    Next – Leanback.

    Then – Do the Rori Raye Tools and just stand

  7.  #7Daria on September 27, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    i personally do not consider the happiness of other women a man is dating when i allow him to pursue me.

    tho i have thought of that, and to me it’s just, avoiding my own feelings of fear… about my OWN relationship with the man

    i don’t want to take responsibility for a wife, baby mama, some other woman who is in this man’s life feelings…

    hey there could be many of these women!

    but i also don’t want to feel not put first, Myself.

    so i choose to focus on That

    i know as long as i put myself and my happiness first, i am doing the best i can for everyone…

    whether it will facilitate him to leave, or not, i know i will not be tolerating a situation that doesn’t feel good for me…

    and him being involved with someone else while i have strong feelings for him would not feel good…

  8.  #8Daria on September 27, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    back to the 5 second eye gaze.

    i think the secret is right before the gaze.


    i forget that step

    i always feel so innocent and kinda safe in that innocence when i open my heart!

    that will make all the difference!

  9.  #9Daria on September 27, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    i feel so uncomfortable… im feeling a lil uncomfortable with teh silence… i feel a lil disconnected from you here… is there something i should know?


    i like: i feel So uncomfortable

    and i like: im feeling a little disconnected from you here…

    yay for being cool to use connect disconnect… !!

    is there something i should know?

  10.  #10Jacqueline on September 27, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Daria – I was and may totally do a walk away on this…but the silence thing made me laugh. I anticipated it – I think the fact that is so easily mowed over in the story is he asked for a divorce! I know he did, she told me he did….so no one was fooling anyone in my situation. Sometimes, we get stuck, sometimes it costs us years of our lives….

    I am not going to judge, justify or get triggered; going to keep my intent to connect and just allow anyone to feel anything – like maybe scared off! I mean it was 9 years of crappy holidays – even when he was with me, he was tormented in picking, etc.

    Anyone who wants to talk about themselves in a similar situation, feel free to write me at least.

    And now, back to the 5 second gaze…what if he looks away first? bummer….

  11.  #11Karen on September 27, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Wow. Makes my issues seem trivial.

    I’ve been the other woman, the mistress. It sucks, and it obviously didn’t work out. Bless her.


  12.  #12Jacqueline on September 27, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    @Karen – too cool, I was just writing the same to you on the other page!

    So, I’m off for tonite – all the best to you all!


  13.  #13Simply Shannon on September 27, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Jacqueline: Thank you for sharing your story! I feel intrigued by so many parts of it. I want some time to read it again (rushing cuz I have work to do – blech). I feel intrigued to know more!

    Daria: This line of your post…

    and him being involved with someone else while i have strong feelings for him would not feel good…

    Yep. This is the part I have ignored at times. Never been with anyone who is married but one time with a guy who said he had a girlfriend but they were breaking up. At first I felt powerful, like I was taking him away from her but after awhile it felt weird and kind of boring. Who wants to date someone who mentions another woman (wife, girlfriend, acquaintance, whatever)? Lesson learned on that one. Same thing Rori says about why I can circular date and he can’t. Totally on board with that position. Why? Because it doesn’t feel good the other way.

  14.  #14Kimberly on September 27, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Great writer! She certainly does have a story to tell! Sadly, it is a story very common to many women of all ages. My heart ached for her just as it ached for me when I was in a similar situation back in my 20’s. I’m glad she was able to move on and tell her story. Getting the “secret” out is like a baptism in many ways.

    I wish her well. She’s already come out a winner!


  15.  #15Daria on September 27, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Jaqueline – oops… the silence thing was actually jsut me practicing some of the expressions from Rori’s e-letter… it wasn’t connected to your story…

    unless im misunderstanding what you were referring to.

    9 years is a long time… i feel glad you’re here… you will heal so so so sooooooooooooooo fully! yum to joy and wonderfullness

  16.  #16Lucy on September 27, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    jacqueline, it usually takes a little while for people to know a new article is posted on here and to start commenting. Also, the last thread is still pretty new. Thanks for sharing your story. <3

  17.  #17Brenda on September 27, 2010 at 7:13 pm


    Thank you for sharing your story! I admire your bravery. I believe you definitely have a book there. I am sure there are so many details between the lines that would make a whole autobiography.

    How did you feel at each stage?


  18.  #18Simply Shannon on September 27, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    And wow Jacqueline, I read through the story on Divine Caroline. I must say I wholeheartedly agree with you. Even as the wife who sat at home while my ex husband was out having fun, partying, and cheating, I still wholeheartedly agree. I abandoned him just as surely as he abandoned me. I own my part of what happened in our marriage.

    Do you know it just occurred to me that I never really thought of the other woman (women)? Wow. That’s interesting. For me, he was the only person I cared about, the only one who mattered. The other woman didn’t even register on my hate radar. In my then-distorted view, she owed me absolutely nothing. I didn’t hate her. I find that really interesting that I never really thought of her.

    Maybe because the first time I chose to believe it wasn’t anything but phone calls (oh denial, just a sweet thing) and the second time I was just done with the whole thing and kicked him out.

    Oh and I was such a good martyr. Yuck.

    I believe more marriages might survive an affair if we cut the martyr crap and started owning how we abandoned our spouses.

    Now when I hear someone complain about how their spouse cheated, I’m more likely to look at them with suspicion because they haven’t taken responsibility for their part. I feel judgmental saying that but the past three men I have dated were cheated on or cheated. And all three hadn’t own their part. Now there’s something interesting! 🙂

    Brava Jacqueline!

  19.  #19Daria on September 28, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Thank you, beautiful Oya!

  20.  #20Renee on September 28, 2010 at 5:21 am

    Jaqueline — Thank you for being brave enough to share your story. I know it wasn’t a decision you took lightly.

    This is a hot button issue for many of us (me included) and while I think the people involved in the illicit affair bear the brunt of the responsibility for it, I also believe that the spouse who’s being cheated on has, more often than not, contributed to the situation that led their spouse to cheat.

    In the past 2 years, I’ve dated 4 men who have been cheated on by their wives or long term girlfriends and, once I got to know them better, I could see why their significant other would cheat (not that I’m condoning this at all — I have never, nor would I ever cheat and I don’t think it’s ever “ok” to do so). Two guys, to be blunt, were just awful in bed (kind of like they didn’t get the instruction manual every other 40-yr-old has read by the time they get to be that age), one guy was soooo afraid of conflict that he would change the subject if politics or religion ever came up for fear that we’d have differing opinions, and one guy was just so self-absorbed (probably a borderline narcissist) that considering anyone else’s feelings/opinions was a huge challenge for him.

    So while none of these guys “deserved” to be cheated on (I don’t think anyone deserves that), they did contribute to environments which encouraged their spouses to cheat.

  21.  #21Renee on September 28, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Well, I seem to find myself in a situation that I don’t know what to do with.

    As you all know, I spent the majority of the weekend w/Blondie (Sat through Mon morning) and we had a wonderful time. Throughout the weekend, he hinted several times that he would like me to be exclusive with him and in general, I felt adored and special, which felt yummy and found myself seriously considering taking him up on his suggestion of becoming exclusive.

    Yesterday morning, I got a sweet text from him about making more wonderful memories soon and I responded in kind. And then…nothing. He didn’t respond all day. I leaned forward after about 5 hours and just wrote “Everything ok?”, which didn’t get a response for about 4 more hours and then it was a very brief one. So, in short, I knew something was off.

    After he finally gave me a brief response and said good night, I called him to discuss. Yes, I realize the Rori thing to do would have been to lean back and let him contact me when he was ready, but I felt compelled to call him to unearth whatever this mystery was and I found myself surprised.

    Turns out, he was having doubts again. He was worried about what would happen if we kept dating and how I would hit it off with his daughters. He was worried that maybe he didn’t want to introduce anyone into their lives for a long time and that would cause a problem down the road. (He says he wants to talk to someone about this because he realizes his perspective on this issue is probably a little whacked out.) He was worried that he didn’t make enough money for me and he couldn’t shower me with gifts and trips the way I deserved and he said he still didn’t understand why I had chosen him. He said he’d thought about breaking up with me now as opposed to having us break up down the road because it would hurt less (both for his sake and mine) and he said he realized this was an effed up perspective too. He said at one point (based on the fact that I hadn’t agreed this weekend to become exclusive) that he was afraid I was a serial dater and that I wouldn’t be willing to give that up. And he mentioned a period coming up in a few months in which he was going to be traveling heavily for work and wouldn’t be able to see me that much and he said he didn’t think that would be enough for me. It felt like I had done such a good job of convincing him I was a highly desirable, deserving siren that he doubted he was “enough” for me.

    A little background on him…since his divorce 3 yrs ago, he’s had a 10-month, long distance “rebound” relationship that ended close to 2 yrs ago and since then, the most involved he’s been with anyone was a 6-week involvement with someone that fizzled out due to lack of chemistry, which he says was very casual and not a “relationship” (he calls what we have a “relationship”).

    Suffice it to say that I was astounded that he was having these thoughts and I had a hard time figuring out what to say. To my credit, I kept my composure and did at least a decent job of using feeling messages (I feel confused was the main one). I was trying to ride the fine line between not trying to convince him to keep seeing me, but also to reassure him about some of his doubts…he mentioned that he thought he was having some confidence problems with us for some reason and I felt like he needed to know what it was I liked about him, so I told him some of the key things (one of the most profound is that he has an enormous enthusiasm for the simple things in life and it rubs off on me when I’m around him…I find myself more engaged in the world around me and I like that side of myself). I

    I also told him, however, that if he wanted to break up with me, that was his decision and I would accept it. I wouldn’t like it, but I would accept it. (Interestingly, when I said that, he asked me if it would hurt if he did break up with me, which again, sounded like a confidence crisis). I asked him, “Isn’t it up to me to decide whether I’m comfortable with the amount of money you make and whether I want to deal with your schedule when things get really crazy?” He said, “Yes, it is, and that’s why I’m asking,” which felt like a shift from his declaring that he might not be enough for me to his asking if he was enough for me. I also mentioned that he had indicated in the past that he’d be willing to juggle things with the kids some (occasionally have them stay over at his parents house on a Friday night, for example) and he said he still was willing to do that but he just wanted to make sure I understood that he still had obligations to them.

    The truth is, I have thought about whether he makes enough money for me and whether I want to deal with his travel schedule and his kids and I had reached the conclusion that the way I felt around him and the way he treated me outweighed these challenges. I told him that I’d dated men who had showered me with presents and made more money but that I didn’t feel the connection with them that I did with him and to me, that seemed to be what it was all about — what we were all seeking — the heartfelt connection you have with someone.

    So…to make a long post longer, he ended up saying he was glad I had called and glad we talked and asked if we could talk again tonight in person. He said he couldn’t wait to hold me and look in my eyes. I said I was really looking forward to seeing him too but that I needed to tell him something…I said as much as I enjoyed spending time with him and that we had a special connection, I couldn’t put up with continued meltdowns on his part…that I needed to feel good about things both when we were together and when we were apart. He said he understood and that this wasn’t what he wanted either.

    Now I feel very confused about things…maybe I read the situation wrong and he’s actually having doubts about me and my ability to meet his expectations, but that’s not what it felt like. It felt like he was consumed by self-doubt and was worried I would eventually figure out that he wasn’t good enough for me. And maybe he’s right…maybe I deserve the fantasy man I have in my head who can shower me with gifts and allow me to lead a life of leisure and be home every night. Maybe I’m selling myself short by not holding out for that fantasy, but deep inside, that fantasy man who is rich and handsome and emotionally supportive and has no baggage feels just like that — a fantasy. I felt like I’d reached an epiphany of sorts by opening my heart to someone real — warts and all — but maybe that was just wishful thinking.

    He txted me a sweet good morning txt today and sounds like “normal” again, but now I don’t feel like I can trust it…like as soon as I let myself relax into the relationship again, some other fear/doubt is going to surface and I just don’t think I can deal with this again.

    It’s conceivable, I suppose, that he just wants to break up, but he’s one of those people who tends to be extremely honest (too honest at times) that I feel like if he just wanted to break up, he would just tell me this wasn’t working for him…it’s so confusing!

    I’m doing pretty well with it, I guess…I still have that fear of loss that plagues me once I start developing feelings for someone, but I’m feeling more sure that I will be ok if it does end, partially because I have a date with a cute dr on Friday, lol. But I also feel pretty strongly that the connection we had this weekend was real and I just can’t believe he was faking the adoring look in his eyes and all the things he said this weekend. What do you think?

  22.  #22Rosalind on September 28, 2010 at 8:05 am

    Hi , Disclosure isnt easy sometimes , but its all about putting solid boundaries in place I believe. Jacqueline I hope you are rock solid now in knowing just How Precious you are ..that you deserve devotion and not competition, that you deserve to be presented to a mans family with pride and Honor ,always deeply honored by your man. Love alone is just the first stepping stone.

    Daria: This line of your post… this is about that nasty twisty pounding gut feeling I have had when I am NOT RESPECTING MYSELF fully in a relationship.

    “and him being involved with someone else while i have strong feelings for him would not feel good… ”

    This feels like extreme negative energy in my chest sucking my heart out, it feels like exhaustion , it feels like the surface of the moon , dark and bleak and treacherous.That feeling is the junkie call for another hit , it drives the desperate seeking for crumbs long after its clear there is not a loaf in sight and he is not ever going to put you first in his life and honor and love you above all others .And you know its just hanging for a fix of “him time” , or in this case money also. But the toxic bad feelings of being second best , invalidated ,not good enough , just drive us junkies desperately to cling to any crummy good times together, the kind gestures, the sex..all those crumb moments. Soon they look like and FEEL LIKE joy, rapture , release ..emotional peaks of passion and BONDAGE. It ties us on tighter and tighter to the man. But it remains an imaginary relationship. For 9 years here.
    My addiction was recently over 4 years ,he was divorced dated others , and totally emotionally unavailable, no sequins or cash either sadly :).

    My ex very withdrawn husband was probably seeing someone else during our marriage 8 years ago, but by then I was no longer emotionally invested and i offered him amicable divorce and told him to go to her (and i was very ill at the time ).They are still together after 8 years, because when its over its truly over. It really truly is. And if its not and hes to-ing and fro-ing , your boundaries must always come first. You must give that love to you first.

    The greater the attendant drama (drug lords, strip joints , sequins , dead dogs, gorgeous women , cancerous wife..all that is GREAT DRAMA) the harder it is to get perspective and to really know if you are trading too much in an effort to keep safe I suspect.
    I dont envy you Jacqueline this experience , but what a helluva Hot , smart, strong woman you must be these days!!

    So what might this feel like Daria and Sirens?

    “and him being involved with someone else while i have strong feelings for myself, honour and respect , this would feel safe and good in spite of my feelings for him… ”

    And what actions would then follow?

  23.  #23Carla on September 28, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Hi! I have a question for all of Rori’s subscribers 🙂 I feel sort of lost when it comes to feminine energy and leaning back… I am a very loud, confident and funny young woman. I’ve tried leaning back and being “feminine”, but it feels fake, like it’s not me. It feels boring, and like I’m observing. I want to be a participant. Now, I may just have a misunderstanding of this process of attracting men, and of using some of Rori’s tools. I am old fashioned, and do know I want to be pursued and be the girl when I find a relationship. HELP!! Hahah. Any suggestions or advice?

  24.  #24Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 9:29 am


    One approach is EXPERIMENT! Be funny, loud, natural, just be yourself. And observe keenly how men respond and how you feel with their response.

    Here is the path I took. In my teens and twenties, I was extremely withdrawn, and I didn’t converse much at all with people I was just meeting. I could tell a lot of people felt uncomfortable with me, and I could tell it was holding me back in my career and volunteer work.

    So I made a study of leaders, successful people, anyone I admired – to see how THEY interacted. I studied what they said, their expressions, tone of voice, gestures – and I practiced it. I remember once I even “made eyes” at a single man, flirty, soft eyes, just to see how he’d react. He definitely noticed, and apparently he wasn’t attracted to me, and he withdrew.

    I forced myself to hold out my hand and introduce myself to strangers at social gatherings. I forced myself to initiate conversations with people at parks, on elevators, etc. Over a period of years, I became a social butterfly!

    Enter Ryan in 2008. He was very withdrawn, not very conversational, and I often felt uncomfortable with him. I somewhat saw myself in him, and I just stayed with the discomfort, wishing people had done that for me, rather than ending the conversation.

    Over time, it became clear that I was bowling him over socially, and initiating way too much. I’ve written a lot about our relationship on the blog, so I don’t want to bore those who have already read my story.

    Where I’m at now is learning to balance my talking. I am learning to be more sensitive to the other person. I’m learning to NOT initiate in social situations. I’m learning to be more in control of my communication.

    To crystallize it, I think what Rori and other relationship coaches are about is to teach us emotional intelligence. That is, to know what to say; when to say it; who to say it to; and how to say it.

    I am finding there is a time and place for my boisterous boy energy, and a time and place for my soft, receiving girl energy.

    What do you think and feel about that?

  25.  #25Carla on September 28, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Boisterous boy energy..I love it!! That describes exactly how I feel 🙂 I agree completely with all you are saying and thank you so, so much for responding! I just fear that by practicing some of these tools I wll not be being true to myself. The real me. I feel a man should want me exactly as is. And as is, is pretty darn cool! I just feel my natural way is not the Rori way, and then I wonder if I’ll be alone forever. Hmmmmm! My friends often tell me that I intimidate men. My confidence, inner beauty, success and talent are too much for most men to handle. Yikes. I feel sooo confused, but am open to any more suggestions you, or anyone else may have 🙂

    Thank you Brenda!

    Carla 🙂

  26.  #26healingsound on September 28, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Hi Renée,

    I just read your post and have a couple of thoughts around it, that comes to mind. I’m not sure I know so much about your situation so forgive me if I’m wrong about something.
    to me, this guy just sounds like he’s actually trying to be real and honest with you, and with himself. And taht is because he does care, and because he senses that it could be something real, you know? that is my feeling.
    When you have kids, is normal to take time to consider things,. you have to, really. if he didn’t, he’d be immature and not very grounded. the thing is, things evolve over time, don’t they. and feelings and attatchments etc are a process… so it’s normal to go through rounds of trying to see things from different points of view.
    Did you tell him directly what you wrote here, that you felt the value of a real heart connection by far out weighed the importance of cash & status etc? that is a question of values… and something the reationship with this man is teaching you about yourself, whether you new it before or not! isn’t it?
    A real heart connection still isn’t a guarantee that all the practicalities and dilemmas of today can’t become problems. that we have to deal with, and relate to and gradually find out whether we can lie with or not!
    So, in my opinion, maybe he senses that this is real,.. still he might also be picking up that you had/have something else in mind. and that, obviously makes him question whether it’s worth going in deeper, and risk hurting himself and his daughters (and you), etc.
    What I sense is that these are really not issues that need to make YOU doubt yourself, at all..but a normal part of the process, and taking things a bit slowly, not putting too much pressure on either of you might be a good thing..being in the moment and allowing things to evolve..what do you think?

  27.  #27healingsound on September 28, 2010 at 10:15 am

    eh…that should probably be: ‘whether we can deal with (them) or not) ..(or something 🙂

  28.  #28Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Hi Carla,

    You’re welcome! Do you agree with your friends, that you intimidate men? Rori talks a lot about successful business women in romantic relationships, and I think it’s in Commitment Blueprint. She said in the business world, go, go, go! Become a millionaire! But with your man, be soft, warm, and open.

    Rori also says that her approach is not for everyone. If you don’t mind my asking, what has been your recent experience with men? How do they react or respond to your boisterous boy energy?

    Like Rori says, it’s a lot about exploring, experimenting, and coming up with what works best for YOU.

    Another things that comes to mind is when I was in my 20s, I was NOT in touch with my feminine identity. My Mom wasn’t in touch with hers, due to a lot of emotional damage. I was pretty much a blueprint of her, because we were very connected.

    One day I was on a canoe trip with a group of friends, and my friend’s mother reacted strongly when I jokingly called myself “Uncle Brenda”. She sat in the canoe alone with me to talk after everyone else left. She held my hands, looked me in the eye, and had a girl talk with me.

    She said, “You should NEVER refer to yourself as a man!”

    I inisisted I was just joking. She said, “No, you don’t joke about something like that. Your sexuality is at the core of your identity. Do you feel good about being a woman?”

    I mostly listened, and I didn’t really know who I was at that time. I was never at all homosexual, just a tomboy. And I didn’t grow out of it naturally, because I didn’t have natural social interactions. I pretty much isolated myself in nature.

    Afterwards, I thought about her words long, deep, and hard. Gradually I realized I really wasn’t in touch with myself as a woman. I started to do many things to enjoy myself as a woman: pedicures, dresses, jewelry, makeup, touching myself all over my body gently, to give love to myself, because touch had been so severely lacking all my life.

    I always felt most feminine and graceful under water, because I am passionate about swimming! So I tried to translate the slow, fluid movements to land, observing other women: how they ate (tiny bits on the end of their fork, chewing slowly, dabbing their mouth with the napkin); how they walked; how they talked. Little by little I got in touch with and learned how to express my femininity.

    I feel proud and successful when Kenny tells me how I am just dripping with femininity and I am the sexiest woman he’s ever known, because it cums from the inside! That expresses my true identity, and I feel really good about that!! Passion and romance define me!

    But when I’m working, I move out with rapid, strong movements! And I can hold my own in a conversation, if I choose to! A past boyfriend said, “You fight with your tongue like some men fight with their fists!” I have tamed a lot of that because I worked through many anger issues.

    Anyway, enough on me. What is your identity? Do you want to be feminine? Do you want to be feminine in the bedroom? What is your view of the balance in a relationship between a man and a woman?

  29.  #29Renee on September 28, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Thank you, Healingsound. I’m going to think about what your wrote.

  30.  #30Turtle Girl on September 28, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Renee #20-
    I really resonate with this. I have met a lot of men in my dating adventures that had women cheat on them.
    I know for a fact that one was really bad in bed, another was a total narcissist, and another just clueless and although god in bed, out of bed clueless and self absorbed. Terrible at intimacy, listening or even “getting” what the women’s needs might be, or could care less….these things will lead to the woman sooner or late looking elsewhere.

    When we do not get our needs met, we look around to find someone who can meet them. Not saying cheating is ok-I personally break up first, but still….
    yeah–everyone has their part in the dance.

    Thanks to Jackqueline for sharing. Very interesting story-much to learn from this.

    Daria-right on, reminds us that our happiness is first and foremost, pur ourselves first when it comes to men. Thanks for the reminder.

  31.  #31Carla on September 28, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Hi Brenda!

    First of all what a wonderful woman you are! Thank you for being so honest and helpful with me. Your responses and interest is exactly what I was hoping to find from my comment 🙂

    I do ponder it from time to time, the intimidation factor, but I’m not convinced. I own a sucessful business and am a musician/ singing teacher as well. I am confident and kind. Funny and BOISTEROUS! I would think any man would be attracted to that, wanting a woman who is suprmemly self sufficient and driven, but I have found that not to be the case.

    My recent experence with men ( the last few months) has been all over the place. I’ve been on dates, I’ve had friends with benefits and also one night stands. I have no problem attracting men for a night, or for a date or 2, but nothing real ever evolves. I refuse to pursue men. I just continue along my path, alone. Most days I don’t mind the single life, but when I have a moment of feeling lonely I really start to ponder what I’m doing wrong. And/ or if I want or should change?

    I love to look and feel feminine. Dressing nicely and being a girl feels great to me. I love make-up and perfume and being pretty. I also love to be feminine in the bedroom. In a relationship I always want to feel pursued and adored. I want to be the feeling partner, not the thinking partner. But, I have been a single parent for 9 years, and a single woman for 5. I only know how to DO. I don’t know how to just be. If something has had to get done in the past 9 years, I’ve had to do it. I’m now wondering if this is why I am the way I am. I have always had to be the mom and the dad. Feminine and masculine. What do you think? Good lord I feel confused, but it feels great to be writing about it 🙂

  32.  #32Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Hi! it feels funny writing on my own story, but I do write here all the time anyway, so then I decided it would feel more funny not to write…ha ha…

    Daria, well I kind of thought the silence thing might not be about me – but just in case….lol….still what if you do the stare thing and they look away? UGH….

    @ Rosalind – you are amazing and brilliant. For a long time sh*t ws simply happening so fast I was just responding to whatever that moment brought (and yeah, I kind of miss that); also in that I lost a lot of my objectivity – like murky water, hell how would I know if I were happy, there was “X” going on to deal with?! And so a lot of what other women would call him out on and judge etc. just flew right by me. That’s why I’m glad it’s now just a story and it wasn’t until I met Rori that anyone said, well, you don’t need closure.

    We – separated man and I went to a danged psychiatrist who told me I could not expect him to divorce and it wasn’t going to be another six years like it had been….well, that was true. Then I went back to the same psychiatrist and said he’s turned in to the meanest person on the planet and they psyc. says, well, when there’s a dynamic with 3 people and it turns into 2 sometimes it changes. WTH??????? OH, geeeeeeez….ummm, you might have mentioned THAT 3 years earlier?

    I based my actions on need – I had to sell that house – and on the best advice money could by, in my mind. And it STILLL didn’t work out.

    But I think by that time I might have also been determined it wouldn’t too – cuz I refused to go see the house he ended up buying a moving the new girl into. I wanted no part of his sh*t by the end, although I STILL miss him! Very clear boundaries and distinctions there for me now.

    I think the true cautionary tale here is how looooooong it took to play out – basically, Rori is kind to say it was a long lesson in learning to love myself, and my friend says hey you own your house, which is all true, but it’s also true I lost a DECADE, and many women loose much much more.

    I hope you write some more, what you said is fascinating – and that’s for everyone, don’t hold back cuz you know me – let it be a trigger, let it be something that makes you grow, or define youself against what I was, etc. That’s what it’s here for!


  33.  #33Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    @ Renee – omgosh! you’ve found my new boyfriend who had the same issues etc. and whom I had to decided was good enough and NOT keep waiting for perfect fantasy guy! Wow, do we all have this sometimes? Mine turned out better than expected, for the most part, so maybe this will too. Although I would have a hard time with every time we move close, he yanks away, big time. Even mine just kept coming forward.


  34.  #34Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    @ everyone – wow, Brenda was so sweet to write me – I realized I didn’t even tell the I got out after the 11 and 13 year olds put their 9 year old brother through the 11″ gap by my bedroom window unit, and stole a bunch of jewelry – although they left most of it cuz they were busy getting my portable cd player and booze…snort….and got scared by my boyfriend pulling up to house…

    But they took my loaded gun; and were caught about a month later selling cocaine -11 YEARS OLD~! – about 2 miles from my house. OMGosh I’d had that kid in my house paying for odd jobs…

    I lost the jewelry, got the gun back, they were carrying it around – had to sleep in that room for 3 days before I could seal up the opening and replace the now broken window – they had to jump out of the window and onto the tire shop roof, because of my dog…so yeah, the house I wanted negotiations had fallen through, I drove by and the little one next door was for sale – stinky, bathroom stuff from a travel trailer, cabinets falling off in kitchen…and all I saw was a “beach” cottage….I bought it, moved in before the tile was up on the bathroom walls and ….well another whole sad story, I had to put my dog down; he was too dangerous for this area and a chain link fence was nothing to him…THEN I finally found cops who showed up in less that 2 minutes if you called them, the most safest place in the world AT the end of the world – had to show all the “Bubbas” on the street I was really here, really going to build a wood fence and really gonna claim every inch of my land by surveying…and THEN I finally slept and decompressed – well until hurrican Ike hit…okay, well NOW I’m finally decompressed….ha ha haa….yep,

    and you all thought life’s an adventure in my bio was just a saying? oh nooooooooooooo……..

    Okay, well TODAY I’m smiling!

    Love 4 all,

    ps – hi Carla, listen to everyone, they’ll help!

  35.  #35Daria on September 28, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Carla – I too can be loud and boisterous. I’m a great girl to hang out with the guys and be loud along wiht them – that may not be what you meant – but it is how I operated all the time.

    I got my heartbroken because a man I was in love with was only able to see me as a friend.

    Well it turns out the ‘Real Me’ wasn’t who I thought it was. The real me doesn’t need to be boisterous, though she can be. The real me can practice lots of ways of being… and still be the real me.

    I found a new way of being – my FEELINGS – which I didn’t understand before, and my femininity. I found depth. I found tons of my real me that was screaming for my love and attention, and to be expressed.

    And I still can express myself boisterously and loudly, when I want to.

    I have GROWN. Nothing is taken away, I get to keep all the good stuff.

    And amazingly, discover so much good stuff that I didn’t even know was part of me.

    Me, feminine and soft, yup that IS me there… it’s all me…

  36.  #36Daria on September 28, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    I have only Gained power.

  37.  #37Daria on September 28, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Jaqueline – don’t SCARE me… lol…jk… if they look away during the 5 seconds, you just move on – even if they don’t look away – 5 seconds is enough, go back to looking at the cantalopes or the trees lol..

    yes, it’s felt bad before to have people look away, it brought up lots of nv’s about how they’re judging me. – that’s probalby part of the reason to do it –

    well i’m sure with practice, that will heal, hey hey hey

    i want that healed! thank you!!

  38.  #38girl on September 28, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Wow!! What a great story! I love stories…

  39.  #39Carla on September 28, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Thank you Daria! I love what you have written. It feels so inspirational to me.THANK YOU again 🙂

  40.  #40Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Girl, thanks! I still don’t know how to make it into a book that sells fabulously – grin.

    So, there’s some comment stuff on Jonathon Part II going on on my blog about who pays? And Jason’s weighed in, and written his own blog post about it at his site….

    and dang it! my blog just popped off – it’ll come back yall be patient –

    anyway, inviting all comments about who pays is it the masculine vs feminine way to interact, etc. on Jonathon part II there.
    Or is it a nice gesture because we sirens don’t want the poor dud date to go broke? (Jonathon’s thought….I never got the if I pay the guy’s gonna know I don’t want it to go anywhere, myself?)…

    Thanks everyone!


  41.  #41girl on September 28, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    break through moment!

    Derek was upset with me last night because I was being very negative about Boston – I definitely broke some of Rori Raye’s rules. I woke up sad that he didn’t spend the night with me and I was mad that he didn’t call me last night when he got home like he said he would! I told him how I felt and he was very sorry. I visited him at work and it felt very very good – we connected deeply. And then he texted saying thank you for stopping by, it made his day. I felt really touched and happy and I felt like all the messiness between us was washing away. I wanted to clean it even more, so I ALMOST texted an explanation of I now see that the way I was communicating so negatively about Boston is actually verbally abusive. (Which sounds so serious and awful. But that’s what it was. I felt like I was spitting knives! And now I see that my mom tends to be verbally abusive, and that’s why I’m timid!! )
    I felt very thinky texting this explanation, and then I remembered that “explaining is a form of control” and I asked myself what I was trying to control? I wanted to control his perception of my behavior and of my character. I wanted to control how he feels about me. So, instead I texted how good it felt to see him, I love him too, Muah! Smoochity smooch!” and he said “your so cuuuuuuuuute!” which is way better than some rational answer he could have offered to my self psycho analysis.
    I feel good. I feel like I don’t need to explain myself and things between us are fresh and clean.

  42.  #42Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 2:17 pm


    RE: #31 – You said, “If something has had to get done in the past 9 years, I’ve had to do it.”

    I can totally relate, because most of my men have been in prison. So not only have I had to do, I’ve had to pay. And support. And still do (with Kenny, by my own choice).

    So for me it has been very refreshing and exciting to learn that I don’t need to feel guilty for leaning back and letting someone else DO for once. I feel fidgety and nervous when something needs to be done when I am with a man. It is almost more difficult for me to stay sitting than to hop up and do it! So I am practicing, baby step by baby step!

    Do you have Modern Siren? I absolutely love the way Rori helps us be more feminine and grounded. I really recommend it!

    When you are with a man, just keep visualizing Rori’s tools, and practice when you are alone…you could sit or stand, leaning against a tree. Envision your pelvis being rooted in that tree. And that tree holds you up. You can’t lean forward or else you will fall, because the tree is part of you and grounds you.

    Then when you are with a man, let the chair or the wall become that tree, and lean back. Or visualize yourself as water, air, rock, anchor, etc.

    The biggest thing I’m practicing right now is eye contact and smiling…while staying silent! 🙂

    Since you feel feminine inside, fake it till you make it! Just TRY Rori’s tools, and be experimental even tho it doesn’t feel natural.

    I found at least for myself that letting myself try her tools is like learning any new skill. It doesn’t feel natural at first, but then after a while, it does.

    I don’t feel fake about it because I feel I am just refining myself. I don’t want to DO, DO, DO. I want to feel, lean back, receive, sink, be soft, be relaxed. I really like embracing my femininity, and it is starting to become visible and comfortable.

    I’m glad my comments helped.

  43.  #43Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 2:23 pm


    RE: #34 – You’ve had some really tough situations. My saying, after chasing a boyfriend to Arizona, is…

    Adventure isn’t always fun!

  44.  #44Carla on September 28, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    No, I don’t have Modern Siren, just Rori’s blog, and now the help of some of you ladies…Yayayyya!

    Thank you again Brenda. I have been feeling blah all day. But, I’m going to go to the grocery store soon and make some eye contact, lean back and see what happens! Hehhe

  45.  #45Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Carla, awesome! I practice eye contact with the wall! LOL! Once someone came around the corner and caught me. They look quizically from me to the wall and asked, “What are you looking at??” LOL! I felt embarrassed and just said “nothin.”

  46.  #46Carla on September 28, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Heheh! That’s funny and a great way to practice. I make eye contact with everyone I come in contact with, EXCEPT men I find attractive! What a nut I am..hahhah! I hope I run into some gorgeous gents at the store. I’m soooo going to make eye contact and smile 🙂

  47.  #47cin on September 28, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    I could really even finish reading the story. I felt sad. It was dark and creepy. No idea what I was suppose to learn from this story other than I’d rather never marry again. How cold this all feels to me. i wonder if the wife knew. I’m grateful that my marriage didn’t end because of strippers or infidelity.

  48.  #48Daria on September 28, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    i feel scared kinda to talk about this here…

    and i want to feel free


    i just was doing some EFt with the Jaqui Crooks youtube video on self sabotage

    and when she got to the end part about the prosperity

    and i changed her words to fit my constructs…

    the prosperous family owned slaves

    They didn’t own slaves because they were prosperous

    the owned slaves because they were slave owners!

    it wasn’t prosperity that made them make that icky feeling choice

    it Wasn’t about the prosperity…

    just like in Rori’s saying, people have pre nups… and it doesn’t help… it’s just not about that…

    this is a big glimmer to me when it comes to prosperity

    and i want this glimmer of understanding to grow…

    i feel frightened that i only have this little glimmer

    i want this healed completely!

    even tho i see so much of it in the world unhealed, and i think im not gonna be able to heal it for myself, if so many other people haven’t

    i want to heal it.

    and it will.

    i feel relieved with that.

    angels please help.

    thank you.

  49.  #49Renee on September 28, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Yah, Jaqueline, he seems to be pursuing me so hard most of the time and then when he has these issues creep up for him that seem to pack a real wallop and they just stop us both in our tracks!

    Presumable, we’ll talk about things tonight, so who knows? He may break up with me out of pure fear…either that, or he’s working really hard to find a creative excuse to break up with me.

    I’m going to be ok either way, but I really don’t want him to break things off tonight — we’re just starting to get close and I wanted to explore that more and see how it felt.

  50.  #50BarbinOz on September 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    #26 Healing

    Great post to Renee and I second your thoughs on the relationship, Blondie sounds like a decent, honourable man and I like him 🙂

  51.  #51BarbinOz on September 28, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    I just emailed I my mobile number and within 10 minutes he has texted, but I soooo don’t like his text

    “Morning Aunty Barb thanks for sharing your number. When and where can we meet? I”

    AUNTY!!!!!!!! WTH does that mean?

    I feel yucky
    I feel angry
    I feel like his mother or something I dont know…….

    I will reply soon and tell him I don’t like what he has said….AUNTY!!!!!! Aarrgghhhhh and he isn’t even all that………which kind of makes it easier somehow to do a real feeling message reply now to him……….

  52.  #52Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel a bit confused. Who is “the new girl” in the story? (“I refused to go see the house he ended up buying a moving the new girl into.”) Thanks!


  53.  #53Renee on September 28, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Thanks, Barb, for the endorsement…my guy pal said he sounded like a weanie and that he needs to man up, but of course, one of the things I really like about him is that he’s more emotionally open than most men I’ve dated.

    He’s coming over in a few minutes…we’ll see:-)

  54.  #54Renee on September 28, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Barb — He probably meant the “Auntie” part as a joke or something…granted, it’s kind of a lame one, but I don’t know that I would call him on it at this point, unless you did it in a humorous way…

    “Auntie Barb? Is that one step removed from Auntie Em? lol.”

    Just my thought:-) Good luck!

  55.  #55Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Lucy – he married someone he told me was a crazy psych b***h in May – that August (before last….I think it’s in the story?) and HE ASKED FOR A DIVORCE ps….SO – she fit in the pix…lol…more on that later, new TV shows on!!! OOOOh, cut boys and good wife!

    Barb that is AWFUL and I am so glad to see you posting here! Auntie em, that’s hilarious!

    Renee…yep, very twisty to figure out!

    So – everyone I am begging our dear over the rainbow yellow brick road DOROTHEA to come back….just for me!!!! (waaaahhh….I miss her bad!!) we’ll see what she tells me, and just how low I can go….


    I lurve you!!!


  56.  #56Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    hey a new thread! yippie!!!

    OK so I have had a wonderful affair with a married guy; and my ex-husband had an affair with a man. Which story would you like to hear??

  57.  #57Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Aunty Barb – how is life down under???? sorry, I can’t resist. It is by far the oddest thing I have ever seen happen!

  58.  #58Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    gone everyon is gone….hmmmm

    Yes Daria, I have a problem with 5 seconds. I do seem to feel a positive response to opening the heart before the look.

    Although, I had a 5 second experience at the grocery store over ground turkey…ended up in a really great convo about the price of ground turkey and the merits of using pounds of it in a chilli…the man left completely beaming with delight. Oh how life makes me so happy!

  59.  #59Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    yep, they are gone…followed Dorothea to her new job maybe…..

  60.  #60Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Renee – your man is fabulous. And he is completely in love with you. You are awesome in how you handled it all. Be confident – all is well. I am sorry I didn’t read enough – did you make the contact to start this convo?

    Anyway, here is some good thoughts for you –
    – divorce for men is very difficult; it triggers all their failure messages from childhood
    – men need to take time – remember Rori’s email about be the anchor for his elastic band? he is doing the elastic band and you are his anchor. Be the anchor. You are an awesome beautifully shaped anchor. And he is well attached.
    – he will have questioning going on in his inner workings again – I don’t believe he will streatch out that elastic band as far as it went this time
    – he will need you to show you understand (be the anchor)
    – please do not meet the children for a very long time and talk with him about maybe meeting them in 6 months or next year. He will feel relief when he hears that you are happy to take time. It is incredibly important to men that their kids like you – I have found this incredibly surprising myself
    – he is in his 40s right? major life transition issues with 40 year old men. They question their purpose on the planet in their 40s; all the scripts and movies about how they were going to be in life are under examination. I have often felt that men in their 40s are at their highest life need for tender loving understanding – it is not an easy journey for them
    – he is falling in love with you and that scared the living daylights out of him – be the anchor!

    You are on solid ground here because you are the anchor. My hat goes off to you!

  61.  #61Amy F. on September 28, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I have a question about sex and exclusivity.

    I am CDing and have physical exclusivity with PD Man. However, I feel him blowing hot and cold, not treating me like a man who is interested in me – after chasing me hard, he’s withdrawn. I want to have an exclusive physical relationship with one of my other men – he’s sexy, funny, and into me.

    So, do I have to tell PD Man or do I let him fall off the back of the horse? I have not talked to him in 2.5 weeks and we last had sex about a month ago.

    Thanks for your help!

  62.  #62Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    lizzie, i have been feeling intrigued by your recent analyses of newly divorced men in their forties with kids. WH has been divorced one year, has three teenage kids, is 49. I am hoping you will tell me that he pulled back bc of these factors and will eventually reappear and fall madly in love with me. Lol! (please….?) 😀

  63.  #63Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 7:58 pm


    I can’t ignore it anymore! I date men in their 40’s!
    I love it! 38,39? Nah, give me 42,45, 48 🙂
    you have written about this 3 times if I remember…..I feel very
    intrigued about your views and where you are drawing your
    conclusions from….I am partial to the scorp perspective 🙂

  64.  #64Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Haha!!!! Lucy used the word intrigued too!!!!!
    Aaww my little Gemini moon twin !

  65.  #65Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Amy F – did the guy ask you for sexual exclusivity? No? then do what you like. Wear protection. Have a blast! It is none of his business.

  66.  #66Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    hehe, nikita. 🙂 how old are you? i am 48 and am finding i prefer men in the 42-49 range.

  67.  #67Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Amy F,

    It is open season 🙂
    snooze, you lose pd man!
    A month?
    I’d feel very open to starting something with the next guy….
    I would not force it but if he knows the moves, impresses me, and I feel super good with him. Yes. I wouldn’t mention it…..until I was asked…..he may not ask….he’s AWOL!
    MIA!…..oh….I feel so surprised, I haven’t heard from you in 3weeks….,I feel a little embarassed but I’m seeing someone else…..- and I would ONLY mention that if he tried to be intimate with me…..if he just calls….there’s no need to volunteer that info after a month….. I still haven’t told one of mine …..he faded out…..and it seems he’s been w/ his ex again and says it’s on its last legs….no matter….I wasn’t twiddling my thumbs 🙂 I go where the love is…..and skip the wishy washy…. I dunno men…. They have all the time in the world to figure it out….meanwhile back on the ranch…..I’m shaking my groove thing 😉 lol!

  68.  #68Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Hi :)I’m not in my 40’s yet…..(Smiles coyly)

  69.  #69Brenda on September 28, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Aunty Barb,

    Tell him a feeling message…

    Ewwwww! That feels weird! I don’t like to be called “Aunty”. What’s up with that??

  70.  #70Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Men in their 40s – well….

    It is intriguing.
    This is all about my experience in coaching/counselling over a 25 year period. I have found men in their 40s – more early/mid than late, but it will depend a great deal on their background and how much expectations they are dealing with from their family/cultural background. The pressures they experience are different from women generally – and this is nice as I genuinely completely and totally love men and all that they bring to the party of life. So what I share here is more observation than anything scientific – ok?

    The men in their 40s-50s are the late baby-boomers yet they come with all the expectations that other boomers come with – they are competitive. They want the house, big wheels, toys, the babe, 2 high functioning kids, the vacations in Disneyland, the executive jobs. Some want to change the world, some want to be captains of industry, some want to build their dream house, some want to travel the globe and play guitar, they all want i-pads and blackberrys, they want the cottage….so they go to school, get good grades, are told they are the ones who will change the world, but when they get into the workplace, there is a recession and they can’t get the job they thought they would get, all the great jobs are taken by the baby-boom-bulge (55-65 year olds), so there are no jobs for them; they can’t afford the house….but they still want it and strive for it. If they got a job in IT, they hit the big time and were just flying high and life became a great success. Expectations soared! babes were hot! they were hot! So they bought the big house for too much money, went into debt to have the vacations, had the 2.2 kids put them in private school, …. but a ton of them didn’t have this picture – they struggled, changed jobs, changed careers, went into internet bust,…etc.

    So today here we have all these men who struggled, had to complete like anything to get anywhere, had to have their spouses work and raise the kids, and they are feeling like they can’t really provide they way they thought they would be able to, they have fallen out of love with the person they thought they would hold hands and do the freedom 55 thing with, they thought they would be able to retire early and travel the world, and buy the cars they really want for themselves after years of shlepping around kids from one organized play event to another, and they find themselves in an identity crisis that no one really prepared them for. Then they loose their jobs – and land in my lap.

    I get to hear how they don’t have a real purpose in life any more, how they lost touch with what was fun, that they thought their wife would be a fun person all her life, they don’t understand the pressures on the person they thought would be their life partner; their kids are struggling with too much choice and they want to step in and help them succeed – they call the universities to tell professors how talented their kid is and that they should get an A on their paper – YIKES!
    Their wife leaves them for another woman….they are crumbling….
    Their marriage falls apart and the fragile financial situation they have gotten themselves into scares the pants off of them – they think they are undesirable, unworthy, – they haven’t looked after their health they way they know they should be; they haven’t looked after their financial health they way they should be – or their wife is going to skin them alive to get child support and their wages are being garnisheed by the family responsibility offices; they want to change careers and become an handy-man because the stress of the corporate world is eating away at their insides but they can’t do that because they are living up to the Jones’ but don’t actually know anyone named Jones…
    Their wife kicks them out for a whole pile of pretty decent reasons and they are crushed – men weeping and crying in my office. So sad.
    Lovely men who talk of real discrimination in the workplace and no one to talk with about it….
    Lovely men who have become a “project” for their wife and they don’t like it

    So they go through a process of “finding themselves” – and I am their accompaignieur (one who walks the journey with them)

    They get in touch with what is really important to them – but is is fragile and unfamiliar until they build a level of internal trust – they must fight their own demons around it – family expectations to have “done better” than the generation before; how they are perceived in their communities – it all needs to be re-structured. Some reconnect with what is “old” in their life as a place of comfort like eating macaroni and cheese – so visiting and reconnecting with family; finding old flames; discovering their personal and family roots and history; it is all a part of their journey of re-discovery and re-connecting. They need to let-go of so many grade B movies and scripts that they have and create a new path.

    When a new woman comes into their life, it is a part of creating something new. With that comes the QUESTIONS – am I making the right choice; is she going to accept me for who I really am; is she going to be able to meet my needs and am I going to be able to meet hers; are we going to be able to walk into our later years together; are we going to be able to keep the flame of love and excitement alive; are we going to be able to mesh our lives together in a way that makes sense for us; are we going to be able to grow through our conflicts; am I making the right decision ….

    It just isn’t easy for them

    Rori said so beautifully in one of her emails – we must be the anchor – that is so so true
    And when we are the anchor, our men transform – the battle axes mellow into tender delights; the control freaks become just in time spontaneous fun guys; cold brainiacs turn to reading to children; basically they become inspired to live life with a joy they never knew was possible – and just like us here, it is scary as shit!

    Men, need time, space, understanding, trust and boundaries that they can respect.

    Of course you know, this is my observations, it is not meant to stereotype or any of that. It is only meant to help us all understand – it is a starting point.

  71.  #71Amy F. on September 28, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    I love this line: “I go where the love is!” That’s exactly what I will say – when he calls me. He’s my soulmate and he’s freeking out. I don’t know exactly why. AWOL. MIA. Men are just a mystery!

    I told PD Man I feel good about dating multiple men until the a man steps up and makes a commitment. He told me he wanted the commitment (I don’t want a ring), we became exclusive and then he started to withdraw. So I said, hey I feel disconnected and I’m others dating again. I will be exclusive with you sexually and am dating others. He’s totally MIA now and I want to have sex with a seriously hunky Frenchman – a hottie with a body! So you guys think I should just let PD Man fall off the back of the horse and go where the love is. OK! Thanks girl-friends!

  72.  #72Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    good night sweeties! And Aunt Barb….you know you are doomed with this….LOL -Isn’t internet dating fun!!!!

  73.  #73Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    A FRENCHMAN!!! oh the lust…..trigger awesome memories…..YOU GO GIRL!!

  74.  #74Lizzie on September 28, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Amy and a Fenchman sitting in a tree
    OH! yes!!! everyone needs a Frenchman in their life – put it on your bucket list

  75.  #75Amy F. on September 28, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Girl, you know it. Great taste. Handsome. Smart. Manly-man. But, girlfriend, I go where the love is, wherever it leads, and right now, it’s leading me to a bistro lunch on Friday with this beauty. This is my new mantra!

    Thank you and much love!

  76.  #76Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    So, I am reposting this because I put it on the other thread….oops 🙂

    262: Nikita says:

    Amy F,

    Remember……anything you do is because you want it regardless of the outcome……no blaming Frenchman for “coming” in between you and pd man if you get disenchanted or his weenie is teeny …….these decisions are about YOU and what feels good for YOU

    Did I just write teeny weenie? Omg…. I feel ridiculous – I don’t mean literally teeny….I just mean if it’s not the cat’s meow…..all we ever have is this moment……be truthful about your desires moment to moment….


    Tuesday, 28 September 2010 @ 9:38pm

  77.  #77Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Hiya! Lizzie that was excellent writing and info! Jonathon said some things about it that are worth noting here, so I’ve cut and pasted….what do you all think? And, IS there a difference at 35+ and 35-?????

    Continuing on with my interview of Jonathon Aslay; Jonathon says he’s noticed an interesting dichotomy in dating for women in their 40′s. He thinks men date differently when they are 35+, or 35-. But his clients are in the 40 – 50 year age range, and they are looking for the 40 year olds, and not finding them!

    On line there’s a limited range of 40 – 50 year olds. Why? Well, he says with a chuckle, there’s a reason it’s called a midlife crisis.

    This is the point where men are getting divorced, getting over it, deciding what their second acts will be and often times intensively focusing on regaining their financial status and/or building a business. For example, Jonathon himself is doing that and not officially dating at all until he feels he’s grown into it. These men are not only starting over, they are defining their selves, and their second act in life.

    Plus, these men online are typically looking for women 10+ years younger than they are – ergo, the 45 year old is looking for a 35 year old. This makes the ability to meet and greet and quickly establish compatibility crucial. If you want to build a life and you put down roots you’ve got to meet as many potential romantic interests as possible. There are men in their 40′s dating, but there is a window of time in which they will have decided what they want and be actively seeking it. They are typically done dating – they are dating experts. Now they will be looking for that life partner and finding her, zeroing in on her and ready for commitment

  78.  #78Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Thanks Lizzie 🙂

  79.  #79Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    ahhh, Lucy – here it is:

    After 4 more years of struggle, while he kept me on “hold” (that means a check was in the mail every week in polite speak) for over a year some girl contacted me in May and said they were married; while he said she was a “psycho bitch” he’d never slept with. However he did, indeed, marry her that August.

    so, he picked the girl to go with the house? that I’d refused to see – it had plenty of room to move both daughters and grandkids into….lol….who knows? He was simply “ready?”…

    Rori says that from a relationship standpoint why didn’t matter – only he was happier with me, and for whatever reason he became happier with her….

    closure will drive one bananas, I think!


  80.  #80Jacqueline on September 28, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    and, ummm Lizzie – whomever it was with I like the wonderful affair story, please? and thank you!

  81.  #81Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    the 40-somethings i have dated say they want a partner close to their age – within five years either way – but they are finding that the attractive women in their forties are dating men in their twenties and thirties and they complain that they can’t compete with the young guys – and they blame sex and the city…..

  82.  #82Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    ok ladies… i feel upset… with this man…

    we had just made up and i felt closer with him earlier…

    and he said… he was going to come see me tonite after he gets off work if he has the car…

    then at 9 45 he texts me, im sorry, i can’t get the car, lets do it tomorrow

    i said ok thank you for lettingme know…

    then 10 minutes later, he’s like, Lol never mind, ill be there is that ok?

    so im here with my shoes on finally decided to work out… which is really important to me that i do that today…

    so i was about to text him i need some time,

    and he calls…

    and i tell him i want to workout, that takes 20 min…

    and he’s like “NO, im already on the way, you shouldve done that already, you had all day to do that…”

    im like whoa,, that feels bad…

    hes like, well then lets just do it tomorrow…

    im like… well… actually im feeling angry now…

    hes like… why i mean we can workout hehe

    im like… umm well its a dvd, well it’s really important to me that i work out, and also i want to come out, so what do you think we should do

    hes like i dono it seems like working out is really important to you so…

    im like yeah… well i feel mad now i feel like im getting guilt tripped

    hes like well i dont want to be around you when youre mad at me for a reason i dont know

    and i dont want to wait till you workout and probalby take a shower and stuff

    im like, well im not gonna be ready like whenever you’re like Jump, im gonna just be ready,

    hes like ok i will talk to you later

    and i hung up

    i feel so mad!

    i Wanted to come out!


    *** i don’t like being treated this way… ugh…

    i don’t even really want to see him anymore

    i wasn’t really feeling attracted to him like that Anyway


    and i feel guilty, now, too…

    im feeling mad




    shannon? nikita? jennifer? anyone else?

    what do you guys think of this?

  83.  #83Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:26 pm


  84.  #84Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    i feel so mad and like punishing him and telling him that im no longer interested and not to contact me anymore! ugh!!

    super mad wtf!!!


    so now you dont have the car, then you have the car,

    and im supposed to be ready instantly cuz you’re on your way?

    you can’t even give me freakin 45 minutes to get ready?

    what the hell is That about?????


    and i feel guilty cuz now i have images in my head of him arguing wiht his mom so he can get the car and then happily texting me that he’s coming…

    and i feel sad…



    im getting Nv’d!!

  85.  #85Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Hugs to me!

  86.  #86Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    and i felt upset with him earlier… and now im like… feeling guilty and unworthy like

    im just super getting upset with him “for no reason” all the time…

    mmm this is NOT feeling good.

  87.  #87Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    daria, i would not have liked being told i should have worked out earlier, and that he didn’t want to wait while i worked out, and that he didn’t want to be around me if i was mad. i would feel like he wasn’t respecting me and taking care of me. so i guess i would feel turned off and just do what i want. why do you feel guilty?

  88.  #88Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    you got me fuc0ked up last minute man! i even told you about those last minute things!!!

    and yeah, i told you its ok with me to do something last minute, but i didnt say, its ok to expect me to drop everything to kick it with you and guilt trip me, and like

    tell me youre not coming then youre coming, and now youre not coming because you won’t wait 20 minutes for me to do my fu8ckin 20 minute workout!!!


    i feel mad. i don’t like feeling this way… im feeling unworthy and selfconscious and jduging myself like im being a “diva”

    and i love me and my diva self and i DO NOT want to feel guilty and i love my guilt.

    “he’s like… it’s ok we can just do it tomorrow, it’s not a big deal”

    im liek “well it is a big deal to me cuz now im feeling upset”

    im feeling mad… maybe im just feeling mad cuz he said we were gonna smoke and i wanted to do that…


    but still… that’s not really it

    i’m feeling misunderstood.


    i feel guilty And i feel taken for granted both!

    i love my sighs…

    im starting to feel better…

    i love my yawning…

    im feeling calmer and more relaxed… and i still feel some hotness in my cheeks and tightness in my shoudler and tingling in my jaw and hotness in my tummy

    and i love my hotness in my tummy, my tingling in my jaw, and the tightness in my shoulder and the hotness in my cheeks

    and that feels like pricking under my nose and tingling

    and i love the pricking undr my nose and tingling

    and that feels like a sigh

    and i love my sigh

    and that feels like a yawn that ended early and i love my yawn that ended early and taht feels like giggling

    and i love my giggling

    and that feels like

    yawning and i lvoe my yawns

    i feel impatient to workout hehe

    i love my impatience to workoud

  89.  #89Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    hmm well, if you think he was actually working hard to get a car and please you and then felt bad when he met with your resistance and got defensive cuz he was feeling bad…. maybe your feelings are telling you to forgive his missteps and give him a chance? what do you think? how would it feel to give him the benefit of the doubt as a young man inexperienced with a goddess?

  90.  #90Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    I feel giggly!! Daria is mad cuz she HAS to do her 20 minute workout!!! LOL!! Those hypnosis videos work!!! Can you please post them again….my little belly needs some working out and if they can get you THAT committed to working out I’m in 🙂

  91.  #91Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    thanks Lucy!!!

    i feel guilty because i have this scenario in my mind that he begged and argued with his mom for the car and then got it and then was really happy to see me and texted me while already on the way,

    and i miss im too good for you diva , is like, well im actually working out right now, you”ll have to wait, and not being all excited to see him

    and now he feels all bad and crushed

    the end. of imaginary story

    and why am i worrying about his feelings?

    because i fell into some trap

    help some more?

  92.  #92Daria on September 28, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    lol! he just called and apologized about how that was handled, and do i still want to workout!

    im like, ok thank you

    yes i do, but lol, i got mad and was talking to my girls and havent worked out yet!

    but ican workout right now and ill probalby be done by the time you get here

    ok ladies…

    nikita will post links later…

    if i dont remind me

    working out now

  93.  #93Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Daria, that’s cute. I feel happy that you two worked it out – lol!
    I feel a little envy….. I wanna be a work out diva! I am going to tell my man: wait, you can lick me after my workout!!! Lol
    Ok…..I need to go to bed….I’m feeling silly

  94.  #94Lorelei on September 28, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Lizzie – thanks for all the ideas about where men are at once they’re over 40… and into their fifities. This is the pool I’m starting over and starting to date.

    Barb – I hope I didn’t miss this in the thread, but please tell us what you texted back to the guy who said Aunty!!!! Dying to hear. Auntie Em was a great suggestion. He wouldn’t have been Asian and going for the respect angle, would he, maybe? I’ve know Japanese people who can’t stop themselves using the polite versions with people they don’t know – Auntie/ Uncle X, or X-san.

    It would have made me feel so turned-off!!! – both diminished and patronised. What happened? Did he reply to yours.

    Unless I already know someone in person, I’m not all that keen on texting, because I can’t hear the voice. In my online emails, I’m wondering about putting, “I’m not a great texter, but I’m on 1234…. if you want vocal contact.” Or is that too controlling of what they do with with number offered? I guess it is. Too much telling me how and what.

  95.  #95Lucy on September 28, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Let’s hear it for the boy! and yay daria diva! 🙂

  96.  #96girl on September 28, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Daria, I felt annoyed with what your man said, and when you were blaming yourself in parts of your self-talk, I was shaking my head “no!” But I’m glad ya’ll worked it out.

  97.  #97Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    I included my number beneath my name….like a signature. I did this when a man asked me out….but gave me his card. So two days later after over thinking it 🙂 I emailed him…very brief… name is. We met………you invited me…..I feel curious…….best, my name- my number….. He called immediately…..from another country on vacation……And left a lovely voice mail. 🙂 anyways….I gave it matter of factly and I learned that he was chivalrous and knew how to take the lead.

  98.  #98Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 11:11 pm


    I saw a man get on one knee and propose tonight 🙂

    It was so cute…..I knew he was doing it….he showed me the ring……I saw her turn red!!!! , when she saw him moving to kneel…….he did it during dessert…… Soooooo cute

  99.  #99Nikita on September 28, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Oh and loved your D testimony…….hooray!

  100.  #100Lorelei on September 28, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    I’m so loving my Salsa classes. I get constant practice for staying in Siren mode, giving feeling messages, sussing out men’s vibes. And even more opportunities for avoiding criticising, controlling, advising, suggesting, hinting, whining, being ‘right’ etc etc.

    Last night at Salsa, I fell off the horse with one guy who couldn’t do the basic step – not in time, putting in extra steps to balance out the fact that he wasn’t doing the right rhythm blah blah blah. I felt really annoyed cos he was pushing me off balance, and spoiling my enjoyment etc. I went into critical leaning forward mode. I started trying to correct him. And it didn’t help one bit. I realised again that leaning forward feels yuk. I might as well have strapped on the prosthetic penis (I just read this in another thread – can’t remember who said it – but it’s a very graphic picture!!!)

    I asked the tutor what to do when I’m dancing with a man who gives a weak or confusing lead, or a just plain wrong lead. She said: “It’s better to just smile. He’s learning, everyone learns at a different rate, and men are often slower at first. So smile, relax, and let him do what he can, and go along with it. If he starts to gain confidence in leading, he’ll get better. And if we all do this, there’ll be more men for us to dance with. Sometimes women start trying to correct things. Try not to. Only if he asks a question, and you are sure you know the answer, then you can tell him or help him. If women get critical, it puts men off, they stop dancing, and then we all have fewer partners to dance with. If he’s actually hurting you, gently move back, ease yourself away from him. But otherwise, follow whatever lead he can give. In the long run, it’s more fun.”

    Oh yes!!!!

  101.  #101Lorelei on September 28, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Nikita – thanks for the idea about putting a contact number just under our names, like an email signature.


  102.  #102Brenda on September 29, 2010 at 1:28 am


    RE: #100 – Or “Everything I Needed to Know About Dating I Learned From My Dance Instructor”…

    “I asked the tutor what to do when I’m dancing with a man who gives a weak or confusing lead, or a just plain wrong lead. She said: “It’s better to just smile. He’s learning, everyone learns at a different rate, and men are often slower at first. So smile, relax, and let him do what he can, and go along with it. If he starts to gain confidence in leading, he’ll get better. And if we all do this, there’ll be more men for us to dance with. Sometimes women start trying to correct things. Try not to. Only if he asks a question, and you are sure you know the answer, then you can tell him or help him. If women get critical, it puts men off, they stop dancing, and then we all have fewer partners to dance with. If he’s actually hurting you, gently move back, ease yourself away from him. But otherwise, follow whatever lead he can give. In the long run, it’s more fun.””

    Beautiful dating advice! I really appreciate this as I read it in terms of Rori’s tools! Thank you! And nice to hear you are taking salsa! I love dancing!

  103.  #103Lorelei on September 29, 2010 at 2:52 am

    Hi Brenda

    My feelings exactly. I felt astounded! It’s almost as if the tutor knew about Rori, and had translated Rori into dance terms. It’s got everything- smile, be radiant, be softness, only offer help/advice if he asks for it, lean back anyway, and especially lean back if it hurts. And if more of us did this – on the dance floor or in life – there’d be more men to dance with.

    I’m getting addicted to Salsa!

  104.  #104Lorelei on September 29, 2010 at 2:53 am

    Is dancing good for the oxytocin levels? It certainly feels as if it is!!!

  105.  #105BarbinOz on September 29, 2010 at 3:08 am

    Well the other thread seems to have died out so I am double posting here……please forgive me if you have read this before and no no no I don’t want to be Aunty Barbs, well except to my real nieces and nephews LOL!!

    (copied and pasted with minor adjustment to allow for typo errors)

    Well I sent the message and a minute later the phone clicked because I had no credit and had forgotten ha ha!!

    So on my way to work I stopped and got some and looked at the message again and saw I had used the word “YOU” soooo this is a big RR no no when doing feeling messages so I edited it before sending:


    Then he phoned, but by then I was in work and had to switch off the mobile, so then when I switched it on at lunchtime 2 messages from him:


    (What the hell does that mean???)



    And just went to Plenty of Fish and he has sent me this message:

    “Forgive me for calling u Aunty barbs but I just love it. I worked with someone of same name a few years ago and called her same, she now lives at Kangaroo Valley. When and where can we meet? I am at xxxxx (suburb) at the moment.
    much love

    I am REALLY turned off by this guy now but don’t want to be a bi**h, but I just feel like blocking him on POF and blocking him on my phone, can I even do that? Not that I was turned on by him in the first place ……but ya know……..I feel a bit mumsy and I want to feel like a sex bomb/Goddess/Diva/Siren not like some old granny/mummy/AUNTY!!!!

    It’s like a bloody insult to all my RR stuff!!!!

  106.  #106BarbinOz on September 29, 2010 at 3:40 am

    #60 Lizzie

    A very well thought out post to Renee and her fab man 😀

    But I must have missed the elastic band theory from Rori, but something is niggling in my brain about the John Gray book Men are from Mars/Women are from Venus where he talks about the same theory. If you have time can you please clarify for me (us) lovely Lizzie 🙂

  107.  #107Daria on September 29, 2010 at 3:40 am

    i just got back from spending time with the man in his car. he got here like one hour after he called… it was supposed to be 20 min!

    that gave me time to wear my purple lace bra, with my leggings with tiger slits, and my purple wrinkled shirt, with only one button

    oh and i had worked out. my body was looking so fly

    my black kitten patent strappy heels

    my silver snake winding thick bracelet and my other gauntlet bracelet…

    and my hair down and looking lovely

    i looked AMAZING

    my nails and toes are done purple for Oya


    i felt sooooo like a Goddess…

    and …

    he had been asking me to “get closer to him” because we just kissed the times before a lil bit, and he said i was holding back…

    i told him im gonna wait for sex and am not gonna rush it in any way

    well guess what! this time he turned me on!

    yes! he turned me on MUCHO!


    i like the way his eyes look when he’s turned on

    i like the way he moves

    and i like the way he said “i like your tits” haha

    that turned me on!

    and we were kissing a lot, and it felt GOOD…

    omgosh… i practiced gazing in his eyes, with my heart open..

    all of this is happening because of me keeping my heart open, and believing that im incredible and a goddess.

    i can totally tell how i would’ve shut down, or shut him down in the past

    in the past with a man like he seemed to me, i would never have taken it past a phone call…

    but since im opening up to him, he’s stepping up more, becoming more manly and confident….

    while at first when i met him he seemed insecure…


    this is so awesome…

    he tells me i am too beautiful

    he gave me the rest of the weed to keep

    we kept kissing…



    hehe i told him {when he was tryan touch between my legs} that its a secret

    he said he wants to know the secret

    i said i dont know if i can trust you with my secret

    i have to see

    hes like I am trustworthy

    im like… how do i know that

    so he took my hand and put it on his heart

    and i listened to his heart and his heart was beating hard like he was turned on…

    so i told him your heart is telling on you

    its saying youre greedy

    hes like what?

    im like yeah

    hes like, no i like to share…

    im like… well its not saying you dont like to share …

    it’s just saying you’re feeling greedy right now


    we wound up laughing

    but that is what it told me!


    i had an awesome time, thanks to me, and the divine masculine in the form of… CD man that now turns me On!!!

    i can’t believe it!!

    scratch that

    i do believe it (and i can).

    i feel HAPPY


    not to mention that i now live in avatar world

    i went to go pee by the tree and i am so in tune with nature

    its really on now… i went and bled on the ground…

    i Am a goddess…

    i love the trees and the plants

    i feel alive

    i feel amazing

    i feel blessed

  108.  #108Daria on September 29, 2010 at 3:45 am

    i told him i was doing mind exercises and told him a lil about EFT, and some meditations i do…

    in the past i would’ve felt ashamed and embarassed to share about this…

    even yesterday i didnt’ know how to say it…

    but today it came out… as mind exercises.. which i love and is so appropriate

    and i am so in spirit… like a priestess… what i wanted to be… i am…

    i feel amazing… i even had that glimmer and move about money… today

    my body is looking like… my eyes get teary just thinking how divine i look…

    my eyes are bright my hair is bright my skin is shiny and smooth

    i feel tears of overwhelm

    i love my feelings

    thank you

  109.  #109Daria on September 29, 2010 at 3:50 am

    Barb – I would write… wow… well i feel really turned off and creeped out by it… i feel unsure about meeting any more… what do you think?

    but personally i might still talk to him on the phone… if he sounds cool on the phone it would all blow over for me…


    Rubber band…

    around the 3 month mark, when a man starts thinking about a real relationship

    he may withdraw…. stretching the relationship like a rubber band.

    if we on the other side are steady and firm like an anchor… the rubber band will only stretch so far… till he comes bounding back in our arms more passionate than ever

    but if we chase after him, well the rubber band will always have more slack for him to move Away… oops… and he’ll keep trying to move away from us… to evaluate what he wants. etc…

    so when he does move away, the best thing for us to do is turn away and into the rest of our lives, so that he can figure his stuff out and come bounding back when he reaches the end of his band

  110.  #110Lizzie on September 29, 2010 at 5:11 am

    “because his weenie is teenie” ….tears running down my fresh makeup that is so funny…

  111.  #111Mercedes on September 29, 2010 at 6:00 am


  112.  #112Renee on September 29, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Lizzie — Thank you for such great insights about Blondie and what’s going on with him. I feel like you reall nailed it on the head.

    Last night, he came over and we talked…I was totally prepared for us to break up because I was getting a weird vibe in the hours before he arrived and I knew he had had the whole day at work to ruminate on all these scenarios that have been popping up in his mind…

    So anyway, we talked and at first it was very confusing…he said he felt like we were going 140mph and he wanted to pump the breaks a little. Instead of becoming exclusive (as he had implied he wanted), he thought I should go out with other men and he would be free to go out with other women, though he didn’t think he’d actually go out with anyone. He said it would just take the pressure off if he knew we weren’t exclusive.

    He has a thing about thing about things being “meant to be” and he figures if I fall for someone else, then it will definitely be his loss, but perhaps that’s a sign that we weren’t “meant to be”. I have mixed feelings about this issue, especially since I had finally reached the conclusion that I was willing to become exclusive with him, but it seems like the safe thing to do to keep dating others right now. He asked if, for right now, we could date without sex…he’s a very sexual person, so this was surprising, but I agreed and said we could do this “for a while”, but that this wouldn’t work for me for very long. I told him I felt like I would be willing to slow things down and I would be willing to abstain from sex but that I still wanted to feel like we were moving forward…that we were continuing to get to know each other and grow closer.

    During the first part of the evening, I felt a real disconnect from him…as much as I could sense he was being honest with me about how he was feeling, it still felt like I was being rejected and wasn’t wonderful enough to inspire him to overcome his fears…we came close to breaking up a couple of times…once by him and once by me… Later though, after we had talked about some light, random topics, we started making out and that led to what felt like more open, honest conversation.

    He told me it felt “too good” when we were together and that this is what was driving him batty, that he’d never felt like this before. We talked about the fact that we spent about 40 hours straight together this weekend and it was all good — there wasn’t a moment when either one of us was getting on the other one’s nerves, but he said he did have a couple of moments where he was feeling a little guilty, like he should be with his girls or something. He said he felt totally accepted and appreciated by me and that was new for him, that this was new to him as well, that he’d been in love with his wife at one time but that it was in a 22-yr-old, immature kind of way and the way he felt around me was different. And he asked me if that’s what it felt like when you were starting to fall in love.

    It was then that I started to feel like I did understand him a little better and that things were going to be ok. I had been struggling to open my heart earlier in the evening but the feelings of fear and rejection were keeping me closed up. But at this point, I kind of felt like I had an “aha” moment and I was able to open back up to him and things seemed to start flowing again. We intermittently talked and made out (apparently, in his mind, no making love didn’t necessarily exclude oral sex, lol, but I told him it was a package deal for me and if we were going to hold off, there would be none of that either).

    We spent about 3 hrs talking and making out, and at one point, when he was complimenting my lips, he said he didn’t want anyone else to kiss my lips and that this was a quandry…he then asked if he could give me a hickey in a secret place because he wanted to “mark his territory”.

    More kissing ensues and then he pulls back and asks me if I’m going anywhere…he says he knows I’m going to go on a date here and there, but he wants to know if I’m going to leave him because he’s being so up and down with us and says that’s not what he wants. I didn’t really know what to say because if I said, “No, I’m not going anywhere,” that kind of defeats one of the main points of cd’ing, which is to ensure he knows that you’re not totally locked up. On the other hand, I wanted him to feel like I understood him and was accepting of him exactly where he is. In the end, I told him, “I can’t promise what will happen (if I date other people), but right now, I don’t feel like that’s what I want (leaving him). I said I felt open and accepting of him despite his confusion and as long as he continued being honest with me, I would try to understand where he was coming from and give him the time he needed to get comfortable with things. What do you think of that answer?

    If I focused too much on his words at the beginning of the evening and if I were focusing on the negative, I would probably still be feeling insecure about things, but the things he said later in the evening lead me to believe that you’re pretty close to the mark, Lizzie, when you say he’s falling in love with me and doesn’t know what to do with it. I also thought it was funny that he initially was saying that we could see each other once a week and not have sex, blah, blah, blah, and then he proceeded to not only stay at my house til 2am this morning, but also ask me to come over to his house tonight. He’s also agreed to come to a big (albeit very casual) event with me Saturday where a lot of my immediate and extended family will be, and I feel (mostly) good about that…I haven’t brought anyone around my family in years, so this is a big step for me as well, but I really like him and think there’s a good chance we may have a future together, despite his mini-meltdowns.

    I know this post is a novella, but writing this down helps me put things in perspective because I have to think about them as I try to explain them. I still have a bit of fear that I’ll be hurt and I don’t fully understand the concept of “this feels so good that it scares me” (if something feels good to me, I revel in it and ask for more:-), but I’m feeling pretty centered and am feeling pretty open and trusting of the fact that things will work out how they’re supposed to work out and that I will be ok either way.

    Hugs to all of you who have been/are being so encouraging to me…I feel like Rori’s tools have helped me immeasurably with my current mindset, particularly the cd’ing and using feeling messages…I know I don’t always use feeling msgs on the blog, but they were so helpful last night when discussing things w/Blondie…I felt so much more effective discussing this charged topic while staying in my feminine energy. In the past, my boy energy would have taken over and I feel certain we would have broken up last night. Now I feel like we have a pretty good understanding and feel optimistic. What do you think?

  113.  #113lm on September 29, 2010 at 8:12 am

    carla – 32:

    rori mentions being the girl who dances on the table. i don’t think being boisterous is necessarily masculine! part of being feminine is being FUN! that’s our birthright! i feel more masculine when i am trying to make something happen, even if it’s just sitting there trying to attract someone (which might sound more ‘feminine’ to some people…).

    if you have fun and you have that glow of feminine energy, you can be doing stand up comedy or riding a mechanical bull at a’s still goddess BEING energy!

  114.  #114Clarity on September 29, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Hi, I’m new here, but I LOVE Rori and her tools have already helped me SO much! I just have one question, and I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask it, but I figure if it’s not you guys will tell me and I can post it somewhere else!
    Here’s my question:
    I’ve been married for 3 years. We have a 1 1/2 year old girl. Does Rori advocate Circular Dating if you’re already married??? How can I implement this principle if I’m married?

  115.  #115Carla on September 29, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Thank you Lisa! How lovely and wise are you!! Your response makes complete and total sense to me! I feel relieved and understood!! Love ya 😉

  116.  #116lm on September 29, 2010 at 8:36 am

    love ya too! 🙂

  117.  #117Renee on September 29, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Barb — Just my take on the “rubberband analogy”…I don’t remember Rori specifically saying that this applied more at the 3-month mark, but I do remember that it seems she meant it more for relationships that have been somewhat established and he can go into ‘rubberband’ mode at any time, but (as the Men are From Mars book mentions) is especially common after a period of intense emotional connection has transpired.

    And I hope you give this guy just one last chance by talking to him on the phone…I can’t tell you how many times I almost told Blondie I didn’t want to see him anymore (I even told him at one point that I wasn’t sure whether there was enough chemistry there for me), but things have really done a 180 for us and I feel so much more open to the concept that love and attraction can grow from unlikely places…be open…you may be surprised! I was:-)

  118.  #118lm on September 29, 2010 at 8:40 am

    i feel amazing today…light and happy. i feel excited about this fall. i feel excited to be triggered by something today at work (which will no doubt happen soon!!) so i can heal it!

  119.  #119tinque on September 29, 2010 at 8:47 am

    lm – light and happy is good, really good.
    changes are afoot. love change.

  120.  #120Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Cookies for breakfast.

  121.  #121Rori Raye on September 29, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Clarity – Great question – and because Circular Dating is about using every interaction with a man to practice the Tools – Circular Dating when you’re married looks like interactions, flirting, conversations, moments in passing – and not regular “dates.” Make sense? Love, Rori

  122.  #122lm on September 29, 2010 at 9:46 am



  123.  #123BarbinOz on September 29, 2010 at 9:57 am

    #112 Renee

    I think – FANTASTIC 😀

  124.  #124Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 10:03 am


    Oh, yes this was a very juicy novella. I enjoyed reading it very much. Thank you for sharing 🙂

  125.  #125Renee on September 29, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Thank you, Barb and Nikita — I’m glad you enjoyed my lengthy post.

    Right now, I’m wishing I could bottle the look in Blondie’s eyes when we’ve been kissing and we pull back and just look at each other…he looks at me with such love in his eyes…I know there’s a component of lust in there as well, but the general feeling is I feel adored…cherished. That feels really good:-).

  126.  #126Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Renee – that’s pretty amazing from someone you were ‘eh about, huh?! I’d love to hear more about you opening your heart and your options to include him! esp. as it is what I had to do, too….


  127.  #127Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Everyone, I have a question. You know Rori thought I had an ebook in my story and I haven’t found one there yet. But, I am thinking of doing one on the loss of a pet. My Wed. blog post was partly on that, and to me it’s maybe harder – in it’s own way because it’s more unconditional and less interactive – than loving and loosing a person. Does anyone have any thoughts on that, or in general on loosing a person. Like how my story has to end with no closure – have any of you moved on from an open ended story? Would love to know….

    Happy Wednesday! everyone,

  128.  #128Daria on September 29, 2010 at 10:58 am

    looooooooooool, in my experience, “not making love” Never excludes oral sex for men! loool!!

  129.  #129Renee on September 29, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Daria — isn’t that the truth! lol.

    Jaqueline — I’ve never really had this happen before, so I don’t know how to explain it.

    I know there were several factors that initially influenced my so-so opinion of him…one was that I was already seeing and sleeping with cougar man and I was having a hard time putting that relationship on the back shelf, especially since he wa so busy introducing me to his parents and pressuring me to become exclusive w/him.

    The other thing was that he clearly thought I was out of his league when we first met and that made me feel like he wasn’t good enough for me. I looked really great the night we met and he was so blown away that he just mumbled/stumbled over his words initially. He said something about the fact that I intimidated him and he looked at my shiny black clutch that was sitting on the table and said even my purse was a little intimidating, lol.

    One other thing that was a turn off to me initially is that he can be kind of anal retentive and “high maintenance”, meaning that he likes things “just so”…I remember telling a friend about my date with him and saying that I couldn’t imagine sleeping with him because he’d probably want to choreograph the whole thing, lol, which isn’t too far from the truth, but I find him sexy anyway.

    The big breakthrough came a couple of weeks ago when I got really drunk…we were tailgaiting before an evening football game and I hadn’t had a thing to eat (which is my usual practice…the only real food I typically eat all day is dinner, which helps me keep my weight in check). I was hungry and planning to eat, but somehow got distracted by alcohol and before I knew it, I’d had 4 decent-sized drinks on an empty stomach and got way loose. We ended up leaving the football game early and going to my place and having sex. To be honest, I was still about half drunk the next morning when I woke up (please don’t think I do this often — it had been about 15 yrs since I’d gotten that drunk:-/), but he was waking me up kissing on me/caressing me and I just instinctively responded.

    After that, we spent most of the day laying in my bed just talking…I was feeling vulnerable with him because he’d seen me so drunk the night before but was still interested, and as I talked to him and really opened my heart to him, I felt us growing much closer and I felt like he was falling for the “real” me instead of the “pretend” me that other men seem to find intriguing.

    So the football game is when things really took off (it was our 4th date in 2.5 weeks) and it’s really a surprise to me because I remember sitting there Saturday morning, reading/posting on this blog, not really looking forward to the game and I came this close to calling him and telling him I just wasn’t interested. He had kissed me before and I thought, from an objective standpoint, that he was a good kisser, but I wasn’t feeling anything special when I kissed him. Now I really enjoy kissing him and find him far more attractive the more I’ve gotten to know him. Does that resonate with your story at all?
    I’ve come to really appreciate his emotional honesty since then, but I had definitely decided I was ‘too good’ for him, especially since he clearly seemed to think so as well.

  130.  #130Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Hi, Renee! Lizzie gave her gracious permission for me to copy what she wrote about 40 year olds, so my new page is turning into the real life dating stories. LOL…

    Most guys have said I was out of their league, too. I think there’s some pick up community verbage about it – that’d be interesting about status or something.

    Anyway, so that means I usually pick my guy – or give enough signals to him that he can pick me. Sounds like what you did here.

    and interesting that you had? or did get kind of altered to get to the place you let him in…I’ve done that, too; not usually with the intent to start a relationship, but it often does.

    and then it becomes a self perpetuating thing…oxycotin or something I’m not good at spelling takes over! Armpit smell, is what I like to call it.

    And, yes, I get it – when they love us when we’re not having to be “on,” it’s a huge bonding thing. I found I didn’t want to be a fantasy all the time, it was exhausting. But I also love playing out the fantasy role, too. And to me, it seems like guys want one or the other – or maybe it’s cuz they feel more on equal footing when we are not clearly outshining them? For example I’m 5’8″ and had bought the sexiest pair of 4″ heels….right before I met my 5’9″ guy…and now I’ve never worn them. He never said, don’t – I just didn’t. So, for me I confine myself into a relationship. Don’t recommend it, just notice I do it. Never in a big way – I don’t confine or compromise myself for anyone ever, never have and never will – not even for the guy in this story. But in a small, insidious way? yep. I have to watch out for it, and I find trying to be more feeling and/or feminine makes it worse for me. then I might really squish myself or make it all about them.

    One of the reasons I had so much trouble with the tools – how do you really want to know/hear/empathsize, etc. with what do you think when you have your own opinion on issues you aren’t interested in compromising on? I don’t know….I just know I’m happy a lot, and I’m still sad I won’t wear the shoes. Love trumps? I would have said no, but I don’t know anymore.

    This guy gets more from me in many ways than Mr. Big above did…a lot more consideration, etc.

    Everyone else? what do you think??

    Happy day! got my work caught up and time to play!!!


  131.  #131Dan_Brodribb on September 29, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Renee– I can’t speak for another guy, but I’ve behaved towards women the way Blondie has behaved towards you in 122.

    Usually it’s because I like the woman well enough, but don’t see a long term future with her. At the same time I can’t tell WHY I don’t see that future. I get frustrated with myself because I can recognize she’s a great person and I SHOULD want things to go further, but I just don’t, and I don’t always know why.

    I would also have a hard time talking to the woman about this because I wouldn’t know why I felt what I felt so I wouldn’t have any reasons to give her when she asked me why and/or I didn’t want to hurt her feelings.

    The result would often be hot and cold behaviour as I go back and forth from ‘wanting to want her’ and trying to ‘will myself’ to turn the relationship into something and my actual feelings where I don’t really want to be there.

  132.  #132Dan_Brodribb on September 29, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Correction: I was referring to comment 112 NOT 122

  133.  #133Daria on September 29, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Jaqueline – for me a big part of the tools is really honoring myself and growing bigger… not smaller…
    focusing on Me rather than the Man…

    when i have made a decision on something, and i don’t want to negotiate… i won’t ask what he thinks… or will ask what he thinks – just to Hear what he Thinks!


    He may have some way to put together my decision with his, etc…

  134.  #134Renee on September 29, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Dan, It’s interesting that you say that because he volunteered last night (when he was talking about how being with me felt so good it was scary) that he didn’t even have to try — he just felt good with me. And he’s been the one pursuing me all along, implying he wants a future with me and having me meet his family and all his friends. That just doesn’t sound like someone who’s not seeing a future to me, but I guess I could be wrong. I appreciate your input and will keep my eye out for indicators of that.

    Begging your indulgence here…if that’s the case, why would he agree to come with me to a family function this weekend and spend every evening he has free over the coming week with me? And the part about not having sex for a while seems to be significant as well, though I don’t really understand why.

    I told Jaqueline in an email off the blog that I may just take this abstaining from sex thing and run with it…I mean, I’ve already determined we’re sexually compatible and he has a drive to match mine, but when I initially slept with him, it was clear that winning me was a major priority for him (based on the time and effort he was spending with me) and now that he’s gone a little loco, I don’t feel like he deserves my trust like that again…at least not for some time…he was talking about holding off for a few dates, but now I’m considering a lot longer than that…until I get some more signs from him that he’s not going to freak out on me again. Ladies, what do you think? Is it game-playing to abstain from sex with someone you’ve aready been intimate with to gauge their behavior for a while?

  135.  #135Renee on September 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Btw, ladies — what do you say when a man asks you how many men you’ve been intimate with? Blondie asked me last night and I didn’t know what to say…i mean, I’ve never been married and am not exactly a spring chicken, so naturally I’m going to have slept with a lot more people than a guy who married his college sweetheart and was married for 15 years.

    The truth is (and I feel major fear of judgement coming for this), I don’t really know…I stopped counting at some point and over the past 3 years, I’ve been dating quite a bit. I imagine if I told him I didn’t know that would come across as really bad…I told him I was comfortable discussing it as I felt like there was no good answer to that question, but I don’t know that that answer completely scratched that itch. What do you think?

  136.  #136Renee on September 29, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    That should be “I told him I was UNcomfortable discussing it”…

  137.  #137Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Hey, Renee – I got into this a little with Athol, and he said “a gentleman never reveals a ladies’ confidences” or something 2 cute like that. Ummmm, yeah – the number. LIE LIE LIE LIE

    Sorry for the step backwards in the feminist 2.0 movement – oh, and while you’re lying? say, “I NEVER EVER EVER have sex without a condom.” It’s the best we can do at our age. lol…but true. Men agree – they do not need/want to hear the truth. I just refuse to answer, no matter how hard they press. Every since my best friend did and got beat up with it for years…yep, I learned from watching it play out!

    oooh, on the internet for fun for the first time in months! feels good –

    and Daria, I get that that is what the tools are supposed to do, but they don’t work for me like that, or I don’t work them right.

    Even Jason noticed it in an email, he was like Hey! you’re congruent in your masculine voice – and I was like, no that is MY voice- real matter of fact, take it or leave it, not trying to sell or persuade you, this is factual this is my opinion; that’s how I talk, or used to anyway.

    Smile…. but – trying to use the feeling messages tool distorts/contorts it AND IMO makes it hard to hear me, much less harder for me to express myself… Sorry if that frustrates you, but it is how it’s playing out for me.

    Still there’s plenty fine tools here – walk away, for ex. is brilliant and almost doable for me for the first time in my life.

  138.  #138tinque on September 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Renee – That’s an odd question. Born out of insecurity?
    It’s none of his business really. The past is passed. There is only right now.
    Your response was perfect.

  139.  #139Brenda on September 29, 2010 at 2:28 pm


    I told Ryan all the details of my past.

    But when it comes to a new, developing relationship, I tell men pretty much what you did, that I feel uncomfortable discussing that. It feels invasive. I only want to share it when I choose to, IF I choose to. I think you answered him wisely.

  140.  #140Lizzie on September 29, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Hey sirens…I never tell or I do something like, oh, let me think, it must be 1,000,000 and you? Like dumb question from a guy. All it does is get their brains thinking in the wrong order. Turn it around and make a question/statement out of it: I am feeling curious – are you asking how it is that I became such an awesome lover? I read this awesome book: He Comes Next. written by the same guy who wrote She Comes First – have you read that one, it is all about how to make love to a woman. 🙂

  141.  #141Renee on September 29, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Thanks for all your answers to the sex partner question. Lizzie — I wish I’d had the foresight to use your response — much more clever than mine:-)

    What do you all think about abstaining from sex for a while…he’s kind of under the impression that if my date Friday night doesn’t go all that well, that we’re free to resume having sex that night (and that’s what I originally had in mind too) but hearing some of the comments from other sirens (and Dan, thank you Dan) about what his real motivation may be, I’m feeling somewhat hesitant about sharing that again right now.

    Of course, I don’t want to approach him with a closed heart either, and refraining from opening myself to him that way again kind of feels like not opening my heart to him too, but I don’t know…any thoughts?

  142.  #142Daria on September 29, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I feel curious about resistance to some of the tools…

    i notice something that is like a belief that it’s weak to be feminine, etc

    anyway, i used to have this belief big time and was actually proud of it! – and i was also initially feeling very resistant to the tools – in my case:

    i was really resistant to not driving to a man or calling him, or being his friend…

    it took me a couple years of experimenting to notice when and where i felt good and bad…

    and i still do experiment plenty… i do it with awareness now

    i feel much stronger after embracing my femininity than before i did so – even tho i thought i was really tough before

    i feel disappointed, pretty sad to see some ladies stuck and not having a chain of ‘aha’ experiences…

    sometimes i feel unsafe to offer my advice – so i will just “lean back” lol

    but i would feel happy to help ‘tweak’ any message or belief, or tool – for anyone here if asked

  143.  #143Renee on September 29, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Brenda, that must have been really difficult to reveal all your sexual exploration to Ryan…I think I would worry too much about it coming back to haunt me (I’ve just heard of that happening too many times).

    How are things going with Ryan? Have you talked to him again?

  144.  #144lm on September 29, 2010 at 2:57 pm


    i feel resistant to using tools when i think i ‘have to’, like they’re rules…it’s my inner rebel, i guess. when i think of them as ‘experiments’ i find they feel better.

    i just do what feels GOOD now, even if it looks like leaning forward. but i’m so much more secure than i used to be that it doesn’t feel like leaning forward…

  145.  #145Daria on September 29, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Im – oh!! that feels intriguing!

    and sad… i too resist “have to’s” but have found myself frequently trying to impose them on others…

    babysteps! for me!

    yay not so sad feeling smily now

  146.  #146Dan_Brodribb on September 29, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    “Begging your indulgence here…if that’s the case, why would he agree to come with me to a family function this weekend and spend every evening he has free over the coming week with me? And the part about not having sex for a while seems to be significant as well, though I don’t really understand why.”

    I don’t know.

    A wiser person than me once said about men, “don’t pay attention to what he says, pay attention to what he does.”

    There are times when it sounds like he’s unsure. But I’ve also noticed a couple places in post 21 and 129 where it sounds like you’re unsure about him too. I can’t tell if your actual feelings for him have changed or if you’ve convinced yourself that your feelings of doubt are wrong.

    If those doubts are there, he could be picking up on them and the mixed messages are a result of him trying to keep some sort of control, trying to balance how much he likes you with protecting himself.

  147.  #147Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Dan — 131 — that’s how *I* feel lots of times with men. I don’t know how to handle it without “hurting their feelings” either. I know Rori says as women we’re not supposed to concern ourselves with that, but it just feels really bad to me when I “hurt” a guy.

  148.  #148Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Dan – I suggested a form of passive/agressive on the guy thing – and what you’re saying kind of sychronizes with that?!

    So, there’s actually a MATH answer – Sheldon does it last week on the primiere of the Big Bang – he hypostulates that Penny has had 8. something one nighters or whatever for each of the three years she has been single and lived across from them. Then he starts her having sex at 15 -ooops! she corrects him to 14…takes away some years for relationships and comes up with 29.8 in three years which he rounds up to 30.

    And hmmm, if I am 52, and I too was 14 and I was in a 7 year rltnsp in my 20’s, a 3 year marriage, a 5 year live in, a 9 year something and now a 1 year something else…ummm, it’s kind of mathematically correct, give or take the times I played hard to get, swore off sex, etc. Har…, hmmm, I don’t think the writer’s were making that up; I’ve decided they seriously made an algorhythm!!

    Daria – wow 3o mins. of exercise easily equals an hour of getting ready if you sweat like I do! good for you – see that’s one of those things I would have squished on, and skipped the exercise for the guy, and later? he would have lost respect for me..IME – which is in my experience.

    And on my last 3 cents today…
    John Belushi (not Jim, although he’s lookin good on new show!) was 30 when he died and he had the number 1 movie, the number 1 album and was on the number 1 show in America…wow…had weird, sad, intriquing and fascinating. He was something; so’s his brother, but you know – well maybe you don’t anymore? the eyebrow wiggles? THAT was charisma!!!

    Happy day all – welcome, Dantheman, & Clarity – one of the reasons I did my story was from listening to married women! and Hi, Brenda – I was just missing you…sending you hugs 2day!!


  149.  #149Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Asking how many sex partners…. doesn’t feel odd or insecure to me…. feels like a natural curiosity thing to me…. I have had that convo with several men before — sometimes they ask first , sometimes I ask first…I have no problem with it. It feels very natural to me.

  150.  #150Dan_Brodribb on September 29, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Lucy – I don’t think any of us want to hurt people, especially people we have/had a connection with.

    Even though it’s hard, I remind myself that most people prefer the direct truth, and it’s a sign of respect and trust to let someone be responsible for their own feelings.

    That doesn’t make it easy 🙂

  151.  #151Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Thanks, Dan. I have a question for you. Where is the “line” between harmless flirting with a guy and being a “tease” (in a negative way, that makes guys mad)? Lately I have been accused of being a “tease” by several men and they have gotten really mad at me. It took me by surprise, because I thought I was just being flirty and fun — and that they were too — but apparently I was “leading them on” without meaning to. AND, these are mostly guys I never got around to even meeting in person! They were ready to meet and I wasn’t……

    What do you think?

  152.  #152Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I don’t mean primarily sexually, either. Just that they feel like they are “falling in love” with me and they THINK I must be feeling the same way, but really I am just having fun and being open and free and MYSELF….. and then they feel like I have led them on and teased them.

  153.  #153Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Ps….and NO I totally was not revealing my number, there – just hypothesizing about a hypothesis…and Dan, I have to respectfully dissagree – I think just saying I’ve lived with 5 or 6 men long term is PLENTY of information! My friend told her husband her number and every time he got mad at her he would use it as an excuse to withhold sex for years; maybe we aren’t all as enlightened as we’d like to be, or willing to not use truth as a weapon? It’s just a weapon I will never hand a man.

    @ Lucy – hey, I was thinking about you and the scary guy – I don’t think you’ve posted much since then? Maybe Dan can help you work on that – and maybe you can tell more of that story, because it genuinely was scary and we can all learn from it?

    That’d feel good to me!

  154.  #154Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    My mom taught don’t. Ask don’t tell. She said unless you’re a virgin, one is one too many for a man. Period. I broke her rule once and lived to regret it…..what’s sad is the number was low…..and he got really ugly and used it against me and justified a lot of nastiness……sorry…..but….none of your fuc@ing business. Why do you need to know???? My mum said if he’s got questions then take a joint trip to a doctor….that’s the only info he’s entitled to. From my experience it absolutely was a mark of insecurity…because now his imagination is set off and running. That being said, the man I’m with now knows but we also known each other for a few years. . .I can’t ask him because he doesn’t know!
    I don’t like it. I accept it. I don’t feel good about it. I don’t want to think about it because the past is PASSED.
    I feel angry that question came up. Again…..why do you need to know? To determine what???

  155.  #155BarbinOz on September 29, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    #144 and 145

    Yes I have a little of the rebel in me too, and at first was SOO resistant to actually doing things the RR way, but I am open to learning!!

    I DO find it difficult to do the feeling message things but am becoming more aware of the way I speak.

    I DO like how was it Lizzie doesn’t answer males in work mode, I can see how that works.

    I DO like how somebody said about wearing a silky dressing gown so you can “remember” what this is all about…..

    I DO see where I have been wrong and made so many mistakes in the past and I vow to get myself a keeper very soon 😀

    On one of the threads when you open it there is a post just after Rori’s bit where Daria says something like “I was always in boy energy and I would treat a man like he was Jesus” well something like that, and OMG that resonated with me………

    I keep forgetting that it is ME who is the prize, NOT him.

    And oh BTW I actually have a date for Saturday lunchtime!!

    Out of the 5 contacts for the CD rotation I have actually made it to one date LOL!!

  156.  #156Lizzie on September 29, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Renee and the sex thing – my take is he is concerned about the intensity of the communication going on between the both of you and made it the easy target for “just slowing down a bit”. Like all totally awesome sex, see how he takes the lead. As he is the one who suggested it, and if he gets all hot and taking the lead, you may wish to do the little reminder – Oh, I feel confused….

    In the end, I go entirely with how I feel. LOL it is probably the only time, I am so completely and totally honest with myself! So if it feels right, by all means. If it doesn’t feel right, then no. The other part to consider is opportunity. It is pretty easy for me to do no, because my kids are with me 100% of the time so any sex must happen at his place – that would also mean that he enticed me to go there, I would pretty much know that before hand and would be prepared if the mood was right.

    Keep in mind, this is coming from a 53 year old who married a gay guy, and I am a freaking intense Scorpio chick with an apetite! In my next incarnation, I am clearly going to return as a slut (just to spite my mother) to make up for all I missed during 17 years of marriage….

  157.  #157Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    And come to think of it…my guy now probably forgot and blocked it out! He’s content that according to him, I’m a “good girl”…..and so I’m deserving of whatever……but if it came up with a different man…..I’d put my foot in his @SS…….no joke

  158.  #158Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    I wonder why the question about number of sex partners doesn’t bother me… I feel curious about that….. Maybe I just don’t have any triggers around it….

  159.  #159Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    @Daria – I feel annoyed, pushed, shoved, irritable, like screaming and could get absolutely PISSED that you don’t get it. That you don’t honor my reality. I feel upset that you wold think that I am somehow “less than” in my femininity – I mean, did you read the story? How do you think stripers make money – it’s all about being feminine. I can outgirl any girl I KNOW, period. I can get my best friend on here to tell you the story about the guy who was staring at me so hard, when we took off he rear ended the car in front of him – she’s been wanting to tell stories in my defence.

    But, really? I feel content not arguing with you, observing pleasantries in a communal space on Rori’s blog and happy that she’s accepting of me as I am. I feel a little curious about the feeling messages, but mostly wary as there is never a minute of any every or each day that I am not totally being my feelings – I had to literally learn rationality and praciticality!

    Most of all, I would feel very grateful if you could just let it be for me. Not push me into making a stand for or against it, just hanging out, talking, meeting people, having fun.

    I feel afraid to post this, afraid of a rant, afraid of a smack down, afraid of a lettter to Rori – is that what you really really want of me? to feel afraid of you?

    Because I do – your feeling messages make me feel afraid, mistrustful, doubtful, lessened and hurt. Your yay, messages make me feel happy, uplifted, inspired and encouraged.

    I want to feel happy especially today! and to be here, too.

    What do you think?

  160.  #160Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    oops – editing to be correct – YOU nor your messages MAKE me feel, so the whole thing would have to be changed to I feel….when you….

    Peace out,

  161.  #161Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    i think… that you’re triggered… and that you yourself said you were getting props for the masculinity of your voice

    i think a lot of strippers are operating in a masculine, predatory mode

    i think that rori’s tools work.

    and i think im triggered and just tlaking a lot of thinking nonsense!

    off to smoke my bleezy to the orishas

    … will be back… leaning back…

    ps notice i didnt address my post to you… yet you got triggered by some of it… not sure why because i didn’t specifically reference your situation at all if i remember…

    sorry you feel scared of me…

    i feel scared of you too! lol

    i also feel amused…

    i feel sad i don’t feel closer to you!

    hey! actually i do feel pretty close to you…

    mmm… feeling impatient about this blunt

  162.  #162Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    ps – more thinking / unwanted advice:

    i feel … you…

    is not the Rori way either… the Rori way drops the you…

    i THINK that it would be great if you read her book!

    then you’d have the concepts clear as you resist/apply them at your leisure

  163.  #163Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    i feel way to happy with my life right now … and i notice that comes with a “knowing” that everything will be ok… and everyone will “get it” in a way thats best for them

    and i feel HAPPY



    many men

    many many many men

    have put their heads down

    for me

    ooo wee




  164.  #164Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    ok… so what triggered me to go into boy mode here?

    i felt hi off the combative boy energy,, and i rode the wave…

    oopsies ok…

    next time, feeling sink!

  165.  #165Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    I feel good because you said everyone will get it in their own way; that’s what I want – especially to get it in the way that’s best for me. The heartkit tools talk about scripting, etc. as well…anyway, feels okay to me. I didn’t feel triggered, I felt as if if I didn’t respond I would be tacitly agreeing and I don’t. I feel happy for anyone to be here any way they want. So, I feel happy.

    Except I miss a lot of people here…then I feel sad. Generally, tho, today especially, I feel very good. Happy cat, me. Cheshire smiles. I wanna be the cat instead of Alice. heee

  166.  #166Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    ok lets try it again now… mmm i feel misunderstood, and i feel happy too, and i feel amused… and i feel glad to keep practicing this feeling message thing

    it is AWESOME practice for me becuase then i can go into my feelings so much more easier with my men, instead of getting defensive and shutting down…

    i feel so much more powerful lately


    recommitting to feeling messages on board!

    apologies for the random pushy judgement/thoughts to all…

    i love all my judgements and thoughts…

    i feel so good when my mind is blissful and open hearted…

  167.  #167Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    forgot that too hehe!!

    ok open heart…

    Jaqueline – im feeling really misunderstood… sorry you were feeling bullied by me… i feel really upset when i see something that looks like pain or stuckness in someone else… and at the same time… that’s just my judgements and understanding… and it is unfair of me to think that I know best…

    i REALLY love and strongly believe in the power of sharing feelings to connect human beings…

    and i am practicing… and sometimes when i feel afraid, i shut down and go into a defensive stance where i judge and attack…

    and i Don’t want to do that with people, and i will be practicing speaking my truth without doing so…

    im feeling really guilty for having spoken to you that way in the past

    love d

  168.  #168Daria on September 29, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    and i want to give a heads up to other people that have felt bullied by me…

    this is a pattern i’ve learned, and im practicing undoing… Along with practicing speaking my truth and not letting myself get shut down or tolerating what feels bad.

    i have been focusing a lot on the second part, speaking OUT, because hey, i felt small so often in the past, it feels like BREATHING to do so…

    and now i will also recommit to part 1 as well… so that i can be heard!

    but sometimes i have definintely slipped and attacked and im sorry for that

    – i know my nv’s … they can be INTENSE and STRONG – so my thoughts and judgements come out that way too

    sometimes i may use a post here to practice for me…

    it’s all Therapy for me, in practicing so that i improve ME and how i communicate, in All my life…

    i feel afraid of being misunderstood about that, but truly, its fast and helpful for me, and its what Rori asked me to do – and all of us really –

    and when i forget that its all about me is really when i get the most out there and “attacky”


    this is becoming all very helpful to me ! yay!

  169.  #169Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    i am so divine

    my spit

    my pee

    my poo

    is beautiful to me now

    my period blood

    is magical

    i am

    in worship

    of me

  170.  #170Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Hi Jacqueline — not sure what else you want to hear about the scary guy…… ?


  171.  #171Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Daria, thank you; I think you are growing softer and kinder and all sorts of fabulous things – remember when I asked you why anger was your go to emotion? It was in/out of a feeling of love that I did that, just asked/noted it…., not blamed you or judged you, etc. I just saw it and felt it a lot, and I mostly didn’t take it personally anyway. We are all here needing to practice, me too of course, it’s why someone would come to somewhere that offered tools. I’m fine with you however you want to be, I just want to be able to be honest in that I feel better when I’m just being me, not being scripted, and that there are tools that I love and find invaluable here, but not that one. I don’t need to figure out in advance what I feel about anything – so that when some guy asks I’ll know what to say. If someone talks to me, I’ll have total access to my feelings right then and can say what is true for me right then. It’s just a different take on it, I think.

    Lucy – you just got really quiet after that, I was worried about you/for you – so he just went away? Did he make you scared in the future about the online thing? I think that guys are attacking you because they have an agenda, and you seem to be in on it, and they you pull the rug out…not in a bad way, in a I’ll play and flirt if I want to way, but maybe it comes across as a bait and switch? I only ever had one guy somewhat as awful as scary guy and it was bad. and it was like he felt judged before I ever even opened my mouth?!

    So, I’ve noticed that at first the men seemed to be high quality and lately they’ve been sounding kind of stalkerish and crazy – what’s your experience of that? Does it resonate at all that maybe the flirting/phone thing is safe to you and going out there means more WH’s, etc? and getting out there meeting doesn’t feel quite as safe?

    Just wondering because I’ve noticed a shift in the guys you are talking about….you don’t have to even comment, but you know me – everything makes me curious!

    Smiles and group hug,

  172.  #172Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    And more – Jaqueline

    I get it now.

    YOu are very much feminine. a feminine woman. it is bright like wet sunfire. you are doing your own thing. and learning this thing that you say… you are learning. and you are standing up for You. Your right to say no. to this thing.. that doesnt feel good for you right now. good for you.

    thats wassup

    thats a cool first step

    i know what feels good and true shines bright

    i want you to come here with me i mean this path im on, and you Are, but you are taking Your steps

    which are different than mine

    because ive been a boy all my life

    since i was like 2

    but when i found feelings i fell in deep

    like in the never ending pool


    and i am never coming out

    and so

    to me

    i just say this stuff

    the way it is


    it was my way in


    i know it works

    but its not the only way that works i mean

    im lost now.

    ive already said what i had to say

    i feel like its complet

    and i feel anxious now

    and scared

    and i love me

    theres more to say:

    i love me

    and speaking feelings is like mmmm… something happens when it comes out the Mouth as well as being seen…

    its hard to explain

    its like

    having my heartlight on

    and i meet another being with a heartlight

    and they say look at the beautiful web of thoughts we live in

    and i say… i have my heartlight on

    and they’re like Huh?…

    i have my heartlight on too

    and then they look down

    and see their heartlight on

    and theyre happy

    theyre happy they can see this bright light

    in the middle of their chest

    and they dance

    and they smile

    and i look at mine

    and i dance

    and i smile

    and the web of thoughts

    around us

    glows in the different colors

    that silk webs glow

    when the firelight is on

    and when beings have their attention on

    and live in their feelings


    and its not even necessary to speak about it,

    no Feeling messages are really necessary

    in this world

    there is only singing and dancing and energy… and magic… and only the topest and best moments of the story live here

    and in this world

    there is no bad

    there is no judgement

    there is only heartlight

    and there is sharing of experience…

    which is my body

    and its sensations

    my feelings… the sensations of my extra mind

    and how teh web of thoughts like star strings all around above me

    makes me feel

    in this body of mine

    there is no time

    there is only bliss


    all time and one time

    is all there is

    in spirit world

    where i live

    and so to speak from here

    is a blessing


    i want to be trusted

    this is the feeling message thing

    that im holding on to

    i want you to trust me and follow me here

    and you dont have to

    i feel rejected

    and its not that

    its that you dont like it

    until it feels good

    and i feel confused! i dont know how to clear the path to it feeling good

    im lost

    i dont know enough about Jaqueline world

    and i feel lost


    so its good that you are def on the path to loving yourself

    this is aobut ME

    i am the one who thinks i NEEd jaqueline



    i get it


    me baby

    me love me





    baby curious

    ok baby

    go baby go

    yay baby

    im just bewildered

    i dont know how to teach this

    i am ATTACHED to something

    by the wrist

    in my right hand

    (probably the computer)


    thru the computer


    (shh quiet everyone i need to do my magic lol)


    thats cool

    i revow to only speak to you in feeling messages

    like real ones

    like non attacky non i am better than you Jaqueline implications no DEFENSE on my part


    at all

    if i feel like doing that

    i will not do it

    i will just sit and look at the computer screen

    this is very important to me

    this is like serious

    because you really remind me of my mom


    enough for this to be extremely useful

    like a huge humongo blessing

    just like men ive talked to have been enough like my dad that practicing Tolerating their attitude – actually my judgements – until they finished speaking and breathing, and THEN speaking my feelings, has made me able to love, and feel safe

    and now i GET ALONG WITH MY DAD ! thank you jezus and angels you see me on my knees with tears of gratitude for taking this pain from me and opening my heart to new love and i love you and thank you with tears tears tears

    and i am about to have the same thing with my mom and i am just in 7th heaven like this is all i wanted out of life to be happy with my parents


    i am happy

    i am blessed

    i am a good happy mothafu8ckin being

    i am really really in good hands like allstate with this Goddess Daria

    my self esteem is Remarkable

    i am like a brick . everlasting . everlasting base.

    i am solid in my happiness. i am Surely happy. i am so solidly happy and SAFE

    i am safe


    i am safe

    thank you lord

    ive been scared since the womb
    for real

    that crazy life i had



    i am all happy now

    i am all saved now

    i am basically in heaven now

    i am living heaven life

    thank you thank you thank you

    acuna matata

    i have found a different secret life within life, like a life of only amazing magical things

    i am IN the story

    i am IN the story

    i am IN MY story and this story is gonna be fuc*kin awseom i just have to think of stuff and make it come true like

    freaking Floating MAgic journals where you learn stuff from a magic, like world… umm like the INTERNET???


    i did it!! i made it you guys!

    i am in heaven!

    AND i am still alive!

    i did NOT die like Ronnie.



    i did not die like jesus

    i am ALIVE

    whooo hooo

    i didnt die like tupac


    i am in heaven

    i am in heaven

    shhh dont tell no body

    no i got scared


    what happend to heaven

    but anyway i am going back there now

    i am in heaven


    life is good… tanananananana.

    i am gonna work out a lil in a lil bit

    and then im gonna do some EFT

    and then im gonna drink some blessed water – by me

    and eat some blessed food – by me

    and have blessed orgasms


    and im gonna talk to orishas

    and spirits

    and trees

    and wind

    and everything alive around me that breathes in this earth of ours that i live on like a blessed being that i am


    i am born

    into this amazing ass world

    and now i finally grew up in it


    i am having fun being alive in this world right now

    like it really rocks

    better than a videogame


    the end

    of the first episode

    more coming later

    after these messages

    from the Gods


  173.  #173Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    And more – Jaqueline

    I get it now.

    YOu are very much feminine. a feminine woman. it is bright like wet sunfire. you are doing your own thing. and learning this thing that you say… you are learning. and you are standing up for You. Your right to say no. to this thing.. that doesnt feel good for you right now. good for you.

    thats wassup

    thats a cool first step

    i know what feels good and true shines bright

    i want you to come here with me i mean this path im on, and you Are, but you are taking Your steps

    which are different than mine

    because ive been a boy all my life

    since i was like 2

    but when i found feelings i fell in deep

    like in the never ending pool


    and i am never coming out

    and so

    to me

    i just say this stuff

    the way it is


    it was my way in


    i know it works

    but its not the only way that works i mean

    im lost now.

    ive already said what i had to say

    i feel like its complet

    and i feel anxious now

    and scared

    and i love me

    theres more to say:

    i love me

    and speaking feelings is like mmmm… something happens when it comes out the Mouth as well as being seen…

    its hard to explain

    its like

    having my heartlight on

    and i meet another being with a heartlight

    and they say look at the beautiful web of thoughts we live in

    and i say… i have my heartlight on

    and they’re like Huh?…

    i have my heartlight on too

    and then they look down

    and see their heartlight on

    and theyre happy

    theyre happy they can see this bright light

    in the middle of their chest

    and they dance

    and they smile

    and i look at mine

    and i dance

    and i smile

    and the web of thoughts

    around us

    glows in the different colors

    that silk webs glow

    when the firelight is on

    and when beings have their attention on

    and live in their feelings


    and its not even necessary to speak about it,

    no Feeling messages are really necessary

    in this world

    there is only singing and dancing and energy… and magic… and only the topest and best moments of the story live here

    and in this world

    there is no bad

    there is no judgement

    there is only heartlight

    and there is sharing of experience…

    which is my body

    and its sensations

    my feelings… the sensations of my extra mind

    and how teh web of thoughts like star strings all around above me

    makes me feel

    in this body of mine

    there is no time

    there is only bliss


    all time and one time

    is all there is

    in spirit world

    where i live

    and so to speak from here

    is a blessing


    i want to be trusted

    this is the feeling message thing

    that im holding on to

    i want you to trust me and follow me here

    and you dont have to

    i feel rejected

    and its not that

    its that you dont like it

    until it feels good

    and i feel confused! i dont know how to clear the path to it feeling good

    im lost

    i dont know enough about Jaqueline world

    and i feel lost


    so its good that you are def on the path to loving yourself

    this is aobut ME

    i am the one who thinks i NEEd jaqueline



    i get it


    me baby

    me love me





    baby curious

    ok baby

    go baby go

    yay baby

    im just bewildered

    i dont know how to teach this

    i am ATTACHED to something

    by the wrist

    in my right hand

    (probably the computer)


    thru the computer


    (shh quiet everyone i need to do my magic lol)


    thats cool

    i revow to only speak to you in feeling messages

    like real ones

    like non attacky non i am better than you Jaqueline implications no DEFENSE on my part


    at all

    if i feel like doing that

    i will not do it

    i will just sit and look at the computer screen

    this is very important to me

    this is like serious

    because you really remind me of my mom


    enough for this to be extremely useful

    like a huge humongo blessing

    just like men ive talked to have been enough like my dad that practicing Tolerating their attitude – actually my judgements – until they finished speaking and breathing, and THEN speaking my feelings, has made me able to love, and feel safe

    and now i GET ALONG WITH MY DAD ! thank you jezus and angels you see me on my knees with tears of gratitude for taking this pain from me and opening my heart to new love and i love you and thank you with tears tears tears

    and i am about to have the same thing with my mom and i am just in 7th heaven like this is all i wanted out of life to be happy with my parents


    i am happy

    i am blessed

    i am a good happy mothafu8ckin being

    i am really really in good hands like allstate with this Goddess Daria

    my self esteem is Remarkable

    i am like a brick . everlasting . everlasting base.

    i am solid in my happiness. i am Surely happy. i am so solidly happy and SAFE

    i am safe


    i am safe

    thank you lord

    ive been scared since the womb
    for real

    that crazy life i had



    i am all happy now

    i am all saved now

    i am basically in heaven now

    i am living heaven life

    thank you thank you thank you

    acuna matata

    i have found a different secret life within life, like a life of only amazing magical things

    i am IN the story

    i am IN the story

    i am IN MY story and this story is gonna be fuc*kin awseom i just have to think of stuff and make it come true like

    freaking Floating MAgic journals where you learn stuff from a magic, like world… umm like the INTERNET???


    i did it!! i made it you guys!

    i am in heaven!

    AND i am still alive!

    i did NOT die like Ronnie.



    i did not die like jes*us

    i am ALIVE

    whooo hooo

    i didnt die like tupac


    i am in heaven

    i am in heaven

    shhh dont tell no body

    no i got scared


    what happend to heaven

    but anyway i am going back there now

    i am in heaven


    life is good… tanananananana.

    i am gonna work out a lil in a lil bit

    and then im gonna do some EFT

    and then im gonna drink some blessed water – by me

    and eat some blessed food – by me

    and have blessed orgasms


    and im gonna talk to orishas

    and spirits

    and trees

    and wind

    and everything alive around me that breathes in this earth of ours that i live on like a blessed being that i am


    i am born

    into this amazing ass world

    and now i finally grew up in it


    i am having fun being alive in this world right now

    like it really rocks

    better than a videogame


    the end

    of the first episode

    more coming later

    after these messages

    from the Go*ds


  174.  #174Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    ps…I came back to talk about being feminine – maybe some strippers are agressive? that wasn’t what worked for me. I literally had a 25 year old leave with his guys and come back, just to talk to me because I seemed so “into” him – my curiousity was a huge gift to me there. I find people endlessly fascinating and all I did was listen at level 2 – that’s where at least 1/2 of my money came from. Just complete never wavering focus on the guy; and they loved it – I think that’s what some of them are there for and they’re willing to pay for it. It’s NOT about sex, not half of it – it’s about them being the total center of your universe.

    One guy gave me $100 because I told him I had to go, if I didn’t make $100 in 5 hours it wasn’t cost efficient to be there; we talked about 20 minutes and he was gone. That speaks to what they are “missing,” to me. Volumes.

    From my experience men come to strip clubs for two reasons – they want beauty and they don’t want to have to search it out, say like at a regular bar – and they want attention. And every guy I ever asked that question of agreed – my own informal poll.

    It can get very sexual, or even perverted IF you let it. I didn’t, but thank go*! I didn’t have to – I don’t even judge the girls who did, cuz who knows what their lives were or why they did what they did.

    I felt a lot of sadness and pity for the ones who made all that money just to snort it all up, tho…pointless.

    Anyway, softness, receptivity, sensuality, intelligence, focus, listening with complete attention almost rapture….that’ll make you a lot of money, and hey! it’ll also give you a fine time with a lot of men. I found out that even the ugly ones could be very sexy – so I was laughing when some girls on here were talking about the ugly ones to date – it doesn’t mean they might not be hot!


  175.  #175Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Daria…. <3 🙂
    Love it.

  176.  #176Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    whoa just reread… mmm.. I meant to emphasize, Jaqueline, that your femininity is VERY visible and it is vizible like wet sunfire. i can see it brilliantly bright from far away.

    there is no mistaking that you are radiating… and this is why you will be heard… no matter what you say…

    and me, i wont do well with certain words and phrases… cuz im picky like that… judgements hurt like bronze lances from the flaming chariot that is jaqueline… and i dont do well with bronze lances stuck in me… yadadaimean… i fear your words when there are barbs in them… and that is what the words you use dont match the light in softness and i am going to scream and yell that i dont like that feeling HOT THING

    and so i have been…

    but now i have a feeling we are going to be more nice to each other.

    well i feel more respected now

    i feel cool and like … chill… safe… i dont feel as intimidated…

    i feel like i have overcome this stretch and am now grown bigger and brighter and safer also

    and that i can most certainly cohabitate with a big ball of brilliant bronze flame mmmm definitely think its a good thing

    yay for Jaqueline being here!

  177.  #177Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Hehe, I think I will start charging my dates $$$ to spend time with me. 🙂 Why not? My time is certainly as valuable as any stripper’s.

  178.  #178Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    ps – i can tell you werent the agressive type of stripper from your story

    tho im not so sure… hehe… jk…

    i dono why i said that …

    mm it seemed provocative?


    cuz you’re wanting to get practice in Forward voice?


    i feel confused now…



    i feel numb.

    i really think you treated yourself bad with that guy.

    i had said i wasnt gonna speak in thoughts any more

    i feel so NUMB in my body right now – I am having a MAJOR TRIGGER so please expect some personal stuff to come out —

    i love my body and my tihgt left shoulder… it is so tight…

    i feel like dont move

    what is this

    is this a trauma


    ok thank you trauma

    i can breathe thru it

    i forget


    i am getting tightened up in weird ways

    i dont know whtat that was

    it kinda hurts


    ddeep energy


    my spine



    what is that



    its releasing and im beinding the other way toward the computer


    ive disconnected



    getting water

    – and thats how you work a trigger by Daria lol –

  179.  #179Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    ummm, D? I think we said the same thing – only I was using paragraphs??? THANK YOU & I LOVE WHAT YOU WROTE & YOU!!!

    g’nite all….

    I think there’s another heavenly body in the skies—-the shiny one? It’s Daria goddess light body whirling effortlessly in a black velvet night sky, very close to G*d!

    Beautiful you, beautiful girl
    wonderful one,

    listen with your heart.

    Hear the beat of the womb
    and know

    You were wanted,

    and YOU

    are MORE than enough

    You will change

    all that is, and all that is

    will change you


    is the better way

    to being

    Sing to me

    whenever you want

    a siren’s song is never


  180.  #180life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    I feel appreciative for the list of positive feeling words!

    I feel optimistic about being able to use common sense tools like interrupting obsessive thoughts about a man who is not in front of you by just simply changing direction ABOUT FACE!

    then doing something you love to do or something really nice or good for yourself

    It’s so effective, just to get out of that damn loop!!

    I’m amused by and get relaxed by the tool of just stopping the flow of thoughts with nonsense syllables!

    OH MY GOD!! it must have worked!! I just got an email alert from the guy i want to hear from on cupid!!!!! Yippee!! OK, down girl…….

  181.  #181Daria on September 29, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    my guy friend said there are only like 100 so personality types in the world

    that means if i face my triggers and release judgements and learn to get along with all of them…

    which i bet i nearly have ( intention) hehe

    do i intend to do this? in a feel good way yes…

    then i will be like jses in the world…

    like an amazing being and i will be able to heal and do amazing things


    i intend that

    yup i said it its done


    me Goddess

  182.  #182Amy F. on September 29, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Hello ladies,
    What has been your experience with online dating?

    I put a profile on and have gotten two winks from men across the country. That’s it! I feel great about the profile and I’m an attractive woman. Nothing is happening. Can you give me the benefit of your experience?

    Lizzie, I loved reading your overview of the man over 40. Thank you for sharing!

  183.  #183Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    oooh, Lucy! Trigger!!! & Mirror….lol…”any stripper”? I am “THE stripper.” And very few girls walked out with over $100 every nite…and they work hard for their money – gotta be very bendy for sure! and buy all those stripper clothes, wash your hair, sometimes curl it, shave your legs, choreograph songs to music, learn how to stop their hands and be a contortionist….not that easy!

    but charging your dates is a great idea. Once when my girlfriend was drinking all my Grey Goose Vodka to make lime margaritas with I made her boyfriend give me $20. rofl….

    okay, I really mean it! G’nite all…

  184.  #184life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    yah, all the triggers and judgments are from stuff we

    were told at one time that as little children we may have questioned if we were aware enough, but then in order to feel like we “belonged” we had to adopt these beliefs that everyone seemed to share and
    never questioned it anymore

    and so it became a belief that sticks like glue

    I am living a dream, might as well make it a BEAUTIFUL JOYFUL HAPPY BLISSFUL one

    be careful not to get attached to anything

  185.  #185Daria on September 29, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    oh yeah! hmm thats whats been mega working for me with guys too now… listening at level 2, i dont even realize when i implemented it… i get all deep and soft… and then wait after they finish to finish their breath, or whatever… till it feels like theyre not gonna say anything more… until i say something


    it is so sexy

    and then they start saying more cool and interesting stuff too…

    but the only thing is… that i feel a lil sad about…

    is sometimes it happens when i tell my “passion stories” that they interrupt me…

    and that feels a lil bad when it happens… even tho it doesnt happen all the time

    i wonder what thats aobut… im feeling pouty right now…

    i intend to heal this and know what si in this now in a feel good way…


    its because i then judge them as not being good enough for me

    instead i could notice that it dint feel good… and say something…



    i feel afraid….

    i love my fear

    i feel excited to try it



    i love my intention tool

    i intend to use it often and well and feel everything i would want to feel with it

    i intend it to bless my life in amazing fun ways that i will feel blessed and delighted to discover…

    i intend to feel it Fully and use it fooly and fully hehe

    in a GREAT way

    in a divine way

    ok that feels safe yet exciting and scary


    moving energy

    all thru me like a wave of snake

    that growls like

    she bear

    i intend to flow all this energy out

    and feel nourished and complee

    in that incomplete way that is

    eatrth being life

    in teh best of it
    i want it all

    and then some

    i dont understnad the concept of limit

    i choose to flow it


    mmm there we go it


    i still feel stuckness
    in my jaw and my cheeks

    i love my feelings

    ohhh i feel sad… ifeel like giving up now.. aha … this is another feeling…

    i will get some water tho and pause for the part of me that is yelling stop

    thank you all me

  186.  #186Brenda on September 29, 2010 at 6:16 pm


    RE: #143 – Yes, it was hard to tell Ryan about my sexual history with men. And I know it was hard for him to swallow. His ideal woman was a virgin. But he accepted me anyway. Thanks!

    Yeah, I really like Lizzie’s approach to invasive questions! She knows how to make it fun instead of so serious!

  187.  #187Lizzie on September 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    OK sirens, I checked my calendar – I will do on-line profiles on Friday night. This is what I need you to do:
    – don’t begin without me! I won’t be able to find your posts if I am not here yet
    – we will begin fresh – that means don’t even look at what you have already
    – take a bit of time before tomorrow night to answer these questions and all I want is a list – not a paragraph
    – why do your friends love and adore you?
    – what do your friends come to you for – like why do they want you on their team?
    – what qualites do you have that would make you so sad your would die if it were taken away from you?
    – what is truly and deeply important to you?
    – what is uniquely special about you?

    I want lists – long lists!


  188.  #188Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Jacqueline, it feels kinda nice that you were worried about me. I got quiet after that because 1) I felt kinda stunned by his outrageous behavior, 2) there was another “dust up” on the blog and I decided to just observe, 3) I was busy with things in other parts of my life, and 4) two of my kids were having health crises.

    I agree with you that a lot of these guys have an agenda and they assume I’m “in.” I find that I am definitely more attracted to guys who do NOT have an agenda. One guy who contacted me said — in a positive way — that I seem sorta like a gypsy with strong family ties. Ironically, a few months ago, before this guy said that about me, I had actually called WH “gypsy-boy”! (and he said he liked it 🙂 ) I really like men who are free and confident enough to not attach to me immediately without even knowing me — and there seem to be very few like that.

    As far as the quality of the men…. it hasn’t really changed. I just don’t talk much about the men in the “middle” — the ones who are neither scary nor especially interesting. There’s not a whole lot to say about them. Lol.

    The other thing is . . . well, I’m not really wanting to meet new guys right now, because I have finally accepted the fact that I DO know which ones hold potential for me, without meeting them in person. And, I don’t want or feel the need for any more “free therapy” etc. by dating men who are just gonna fall for me and I’ll have to let them down. I did that for a year, and it was very helpful, but I have other things I want to do with my time and energy.

    With WH, I knew from his very first email, pictures, and profile, that I would love him.

    From my experiences, it seems that the best thing for me to do is to wait until someone else shows up in cyberspace or the real world who gives me that same “knowing” feeling (intuition) — and not date anyone else.

    But that still leaves me with the question of whether or not to flirt and play with guys online who I have no intention of meeting….. I guess maybe I shouldn’t do that unless i tell them upfront, “Hey, I’m never gonna meet you,” and then they can decide what they want to do.

    One thing that muddies this for me is the fact that TN man and I flirted and played for months without meeting — STILL haven’t met — and now he has a gf — and we STILL sometimes flirt and play — and it is FUN for both of us! Yes, it is true that I went through an intense period of confusion and grieving when he got a gf — but now I have recovered and I greatly enjoy his friendship and playfulness. So maybe I expect guys to be okay with that same kind of scenario, but I forget that it was a process for me to reach the point of being okay with it and that I first had my heart broken….. Oh, yeah, I kinda see that now. Sooo, it’s like I’m doing to them what TN man did to me, forgetting that the part in the middle felt bad. But… that doesn’t mean that TN man did anything wrong — it just means that I had an agenda and he didn’t. Which is part of the reason I liked him so much to begin with! And…. it’s probably part of the reason these guys like ME so much — I don’t have an agenda. (And they don’t see the downside of that til they’re hooked, like I was with TN man.)

    I don’t know what to make of all this.

    Bottom line: Either WH comes back, or someone captures my attention right off the bat — even before meeting — like he did.

  189.  #189Daria on September 29, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    oooh i wanna shave my legs… and take a seasalt bath…

    and i want to workout and brush my sking first

    but today is not a workout day (wow i want to workout on my days off!!! NIkita!!! i am getting the videos for you)

    i am gonna do my feel good tummy workout then.

    thats mini


    i am bout to be Goddessy

    lets get Goddessy – darkwing duck

  190.  #190Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel confused about this sentence:

    “oooh, Lucy! Trigger!!! & Mirror….lol…”any stripper”? I am “THE stripper.””

    Are you saying my comment triggered you and was a mirror for you? . . . Or are you just joking around?

    Same with “any stripper” vs. “THE stripper” — last time I checked, there were tons of them, not just you….? 😀

  191.  #191life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    I take it J means it as in ” I am the consummate stripper” the ideal, the model, as if, if you look in the dictionary under stripper, you will see Jacqueline’s picture….LOL 🙂

  192.  #192Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Yay, Daria I was just noticing that I feel so lazy about working out I won’t even remind Daria lol! Shameless me 😉
    I fantasize about running in the park while I’m in the shower, ……then I go eat a cookie!

  193.  #193Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    “I fantasize about running in the park while I’m in the shower…then I go eat a cookie!”

    That’s really funny! 😀

    Nikita, are you the one who said you ate a cookie for breakfast? I read that on my phone before I got out of bed today, and thought to myself, “Rats! I wish I could eat a cookie for breakfast, but we don’t have any.”

    Then I went downstairs, and suddenly there was heavenly music playing and a spotlight shining on the kitchen counter illuminating a package of Oreos that I had forgotten I brought home for my son last night!!!

    So I ate two oreos for breakfast. 😀

  194.  #194Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Lucy – YES!! I was joking, and I assumed you were, too? otherwise what are you doing charging your dates?! young lady! men expect to pay in a strip club – if you charge on dates it just confuses them!!!

    ….and OMGosh, of course you’ll find my picture there…in the dictionary.

    I mean I might NOT have been the most successful stripper ever – cuz Anna Nicole Smith girl got the old guy with billions, but I am on PAR, of course! rofl…

    I’d post it here but can’t figure out how to; Lizzie has it!! It’s gonna be for my alt bad girl blog one day!

    Meanwhile, good tv coming on, just checked in to make sure all was well – and thanks Lucy for the explaning/updating. I hope you find someone who makes you swoon ASAP!!

  195.  #195life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Yes, but look what happened to her. Anna Nicole Smith, I mean.

  196.  #196Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Okay, Life is too short, thanks. That makes sense.

    I am going to be the consummate non-stripping stripper. From now on, I will charge $100 per hour for listening to a man at level two while eating the dinner he buys me. Anything less and I will feel cheap.

    This is really making sense. I actually had the thought the other night while texting this one guy, that I should be charging for this.

    It’s like what Rori said that one time about phone sex….

  197.  #197life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    That is so cute, Lucy!

    Well, I am going to go and do a mini-workout even if it is kind of late

    great stuff from every one, thank you ALL

    nite all

  198.  #198life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    What did she say about phone sex?

    I have done it a couple of times, and then I discovered that I hate phone sex!!

  199.  #199Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    And, what Erika says about earning money for what we do for people so that our needs are met as well….

  200.  #200Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Yeah, Life, I don’t like phone sex either (never done it bc I don’t want to) — BUT, “sexting” is fun, and I should DEFINITELY start charging for it!

    Jacqueline, as far as confusing my dates . .. well, apparenly I’m already confusing them, so I might as well make some money doing it!

  201.  #201Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 7:12 pm


    Music playing …..illuminated oreo package ……haha glorious breakfast 😉

  202.  #202Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Life, Rori told someone on here that phone sex is just phone sex and doesn’t mean the guy wants a relationship with her, etc., and that if she likes doing phone sex she might as well do it for money.

  203.  #203life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Great topic, Lucy!

    For me, the love relationship between the man and the woman symbolizes the relationship between me and God.

    That is why even though ANY relationship symbolizes the one between me and God, I want to be aligned with another like they are my twin. But not in a narcissistic, personality way. Just the whole package, being on the exact same wavelength, with similar values, etc.

    I can’t get with just anybody and will stay alone until I find the right one.

    In the relationship between me and God, there is no currency, no deals to be made, no bargains to be struck. Unless, of course there are. 🙂

  204.  #204life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Yes, exactly Lucy, phone sex just feels too impersonal and who knows what is going on the other end of the line….yes, I like sexting too!

    I did not go and check the message from the guy on okcupid i really wanted to hear back from yet….i am practicing leaning back and not making everything all about them…..

  205.  #205life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    201 I’m not saying there wouldnt be work and patience involved in a relationship with the right one.

    OK, BYE

  206.  #206Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    I get what you’re saying, Life. 🙂


  207.  #207life_is_too_short_to... on September 29, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Can the leaning back tool sometimes be another way to say act coy?

    I think there is a difference.

    What do you think?

  208.  #208Nikita on September 29, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    I remember rori stressing not to PRETEND anything…. That one is to actually BE busy not just say it or pretend it.
    Im rarely in the same room with my phone and I tend to leave the ringer off so as to not be caught off guard before my coffee in the am 🙂 I don’t check my email very often because I do it via my phone and well…..the phone is ALL the way in the kitchen and I’m busy playing on siren island 😉

  209.  #209Alonka on September 29, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Hi Rory,

    Here is what I’d like to ask your advice about. I met this guy last year and fell in love almost right away. We had an intense connection, but he broke up with me pretty soon for very strange and untrue reasons (i.e. that I didn’t love him, that we were different people in terms of how we like to spend our free time, which was shocking to me because we are exactly the same and I told him so and of course I adored him). Anyway – after that we didn’t speak for almost a year. I couldn’t date anyone else, I still had feelings for him. Then suddenly we ran into each other in the street again – he was on a date, and when he saw me, he changed his course, walked straight towards me looking me in the eyes – I was stunned, it was much more than I could hope for. In about 10 days I emailed him. I was hoping that he would, but he didn’t. He responded and I invited him to a housewarming brunch at my place. he was thrilled and my brunch was a big success – I cook everything myself and have really great friends – the only drawback is that he had to leave early and I couldn’t spend time with him – I was friendly and nice, but didn’t treat him like anything special. So the next day he wrote me an email and I invited him for coffee. He accepted the next minute and we had a wonderful dinner date. I knew he wasn’t happy that I made it sound like ‘coffee’ get together, but it was still very romantic, he turned it into dinner and I felt really cherished and adored. He said it was terrific to see me and we will keep in touch. He didn’t kiss me at the end and that felt odd, but maybe he just didn’t feel sure (he can get insecure) and my doorman was standing right next to us. I didnt hear from him in 2 weeks. I lost 6 pounds and I’m a slim person:) In 2 weeks I called him and asked to meet up and talk. He agreed immediately and we met the same day. He was a different person. he was pushing me away in every possible way, he was treating me like his buddy from work, I’ve never seen him like that. I just reacted, was my usual funny and nice self, but my heart sank. I decided that he met someone else. Almost at the end I asked a permission to ask a personal question and said – are you seeing anyone? He said – no, I go on different dates once in a while, but I’m not involved. You? I said – no! I was busy with a self-study course I decided to take. We talked about this course a little and then I politely said good bye and left. He wished me luck on my next exam (coming up in June haha) and thanked me for ‘stopping in his neighborhood’. On my way home I texted him: ‘ I was not dating because I was in love with you all this time. But tonight helped;)’. He responded almost right away: ‘I think you know that’s not healthy. Hope you are in a good place now’. That felt so hurtful and terrible that I just dropped it. This was 2 weeks ago and part of the time I’m angry at him for giving me hopes – we really have a deep connection and I feel treated like crap; other times I think that maybe during our dinner date I should have given him more clues about my feelings towards him. Maybe he felt not loved enough again… and that kills me.

  210.  #210janjune on September 29, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    hi jacqueline!!
    woke up in the middle of the night last night and since i haven’t been on the blog for awhile decided to check in… and there was your story!
    thanks for sharing…
    i think you should WRITE THE BOOK!
    do it!
    just sit down and begin chapter one.
    jacqueline’s first novel.
    it will be a best seller. it will. *start the book* 🙂
    love, janjune

  211.  #211janjune on September 29, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    oh i didn’t get to say i got on EZINE and read two of your articles…

    the one about finances and marriage is a mustread for young women thinking about marrying or to give them a heads up for when they get to that point.
    just terrific info.

    *start the book*
    i want to encourage you ! :).. *start the book*…

    there once was a girl named jacqueline…

  212.  #212Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    janjune – I was wondering where you’d been this very afternoon! Missing you….thank you so much for the kind words. And I’m glad you’re back – hope you’ll stay, and weren’t you in the middle of a story last time? You’d been gone, you came back and you were starting to move forward…

    Thank you thank you – one thing I’ve really gotten out of this is how hard I worked to make my happy ever after scene set up, I had never really acknowledged to myself how hard it was.

    All joking aside it was hard – all of it, I did the parttime job while I had a full time job too. It wasn’t easy money, it was good money -but not at all easy. Ricky Lee Jones sings that – aint no man with the money in his hand got any of that bread by being slow in the head, aint no such thing as easy money. I had to be very real with the men at the bar, and vulnerable.

    And I don’t know how many times some man’s bought me a $100 dinner and I’ve so wished we could’ve ate noodles and he’d just given me the $100 so I could use it to rebuild this house (the trailer plumbing going straight onto the ground, etc. etc…..) That’s two houses rebuilt from basically being condemned – one thing I hope to NEVER have to do again.

    I am really touched that you encourage me, janjune. I don’t know where to go with the blog and the writing, but something good will come of it, I know that. And Ezines, that is too cool that you went there too.

    And my boyfriend found a forum for me to post about the blog in tonite -which was really sweet, too, especially since he’s been pretty much dead set against it! yeah….

    I know someone said it was a dark sad story – but if I hadn’t gotten out of all of it, that would have been the dark sad story!

    Ready to turn the page – and learn from listening to everyone of course.

    Will be waiting for your update!


  213.  #213Lucy on September 29, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    man: how was your day?…. me: happy …. man: oh!? care to elaborate? … me: nothing to elaborate on really. just a peaceful happy day … man: 🙂 that’s nice. statements like that make me like you even more. …………………… I don’t get it!!! these guys are just too easy to please! why on earth does that make him like me more??

  214.  #214Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    oh – and Lucy – I think that’s what Geisha girls are/do?? sounds like…could be fun!

  215.  #215Jacqueline on September 29, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    OMGosh Renee – wow, Scot McKay wrote a great article on guys who are preemptively rejecting a woman! I put it on the how to date page…and I’ll email you. It’s really insightful – he’s genius everyone!

    Nite again!

  216.  #216janjune on September 29, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    hi cin, #47

    you said you didn’t know what you were supposed to learn from the story, that it just felt dark and creepy to you…i felt anguish reading that… i hope you’re alright… i didn’t see any further comments from you but it sounded like jacq’s story brought up such heavy pain, i hope you’ll check back in if this is the case… this blog is a very good place to be to just “work through” it and get it out and get it over with…

    i haven’t been able to read all the comments and have to leave the blog now but wanted to share with you what i learned, or rather was reminded of, since i didn’t see where anyone addressed your comment yet.

    i was reminded:
    1. i can’t even accurately GUESS what someone’s story is
    2. i can judge whether something is good for me or not, whether i want to make something part of my life or not and how it feels to me
    3. behavior/choices do not add to or take away from a person’s intrinsic value
    4. i see more and more, given the diversity of the women on here, that we’re all just in the same boat— that money, job, background, status, ownership, race, culture, religion, talent, beauty, youth, age, security — none of that is why we’re here and none of it has healed the parts of us that brought us to this blog
    5. a part of every woman’s story echoes a part of my own
    6. there is something to learn from every voice on here.

    hope this helps a little cin.
    god bless you

  217.  #217girl on September 29, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    Ladies, it was so cool to read your stories about ballroom dance! I’m teaching ballroom dance and I’m really loving the opportunity to stand up tall and guide women to follow men…even if he’s doing it all wrong. It’s feels wonderful to lead a group of people into synchronized dance.

  218.  #218oops! on September 29, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    I was at Central market with my LI and a sexy man caught my eye. I was trying to compose myself and look away, but he literally stopped and stared at me till I looked him in the eye. Then I ran to my LI in the other aisle and told him this guy was about to pounce on me. At first he was turned on and said there was some other guy watching me, too. He twirled me around and loved on me and stayed nearby. But then LI ventured off while I was getting bananas and Hot Guy passed by and said “You’re pretty”. I said “Thanks…you’re handsome…” Then when LI came around the corner, I guess he smelled the pharomones or felt the tension and he got a bit pissed off. I told him I’d like him to stay near me – I need him “as a c*ck block.” As we rounded the corner into the wine section, he said “No. That’s not gonna happen. I don’t block…I F*ck sh*t up!” right as we pass Hot Guy!! He has me by the hand as he leads me to the restroom – I really need to pee, but the store is about to close and he is suffering from too much work and too much play.

  219.  #219oops! on September 29, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    A minute later I discovered a bag of dried banana chips in my cart. I asked my boyfriend about them, and he said HE didn’t put them in there, but maybe my “Secret Lover” did.

  220.  #220oops! on September 29, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    There was a moment when I was holding the bag of banana chips and the guy, aka “my secret lover” passed by us. It was hilarious. I looked down at the bag, and then at my boyfriend, and he grasped the bag from my and and stuffed it among the boxes of noodles.

  221.  #221janjune on September 29, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    hi jacqueline!

    i just checked back before signing off for the night and saw your comment to me…
    i can’t be on the blog right now, my loved one has so many needs at this point… i have to put my attention there, steadily… “hanging in there” for this person is my job right now…so i’ll pop in here when i can and will give a shout to you at your email address later… prob next week or the week after… things should be settled down a bit in two weeks…

    but in the meantime,
    YES Yes!! start the book!!!!!! haha!!

    where to start?
    here are two suggestions!
    1. you have gone out on stage for the first time… you have on your _______, (describe your costume), how did it *feel*, did you feel the satin feeling cool against your skin, were you pinched in at the waist, did the shoes you were wearing hurt or feel like they were made just for you, was the room hot or cold, what did the smoke rising look like from the stage, what sounds did you hear, who was there with you, did you like them, how did you feel with and about that person, did you have a drink before you went onstage or go out stone cold sober, were you exhilirated, embarrassed, did you feel powerful or like you wanted to run?
    take the reader, in this way, through the first dance, let the reader see what you saw, feel what you felt, describe what you were feeling, seeing, thinking, etc… you could conceiveably make your first onstage dance into a full chapter, chapter one.

    then, to start chapter two…
    you could go back to a little girl sittting on a porch in a blue gingham dress eating a cinnamon roll her (favorite person) made for her… (i don’t mean, literally, blueginghamdresseatingcinnamonroll scene of course, but rather, give the reader your version of the best of your childhood memories to start chapter two….) then take the reader through childhood, teens, awkward teen experiences of your choosing (we all have some of them, don’t we?!), then college and/or the big wedding you had. end chapter two. so then your reader has your background now…
    chapter three begins the story *you* want to tell!!… the story that’s in you!!…. just take it from there…what is burning in your soul that you want to share with the world???

    or idea #2
    2. start with the little girl on the porch type scenario and then *quickly* do a run-through, in chapter one, of experiences in your life that you want to share with the reader throughout the book.
    then proceed into chapter two and beyond with the unfolding of the story of these experiences…

    just some ideas, maybe will get you started typing!!!

    be sure to get it copyrighted before sharing it with anyone.

    i believe YOU ARE A GREAT WRITER!!
    right now i’m putting my energy out there for you!!
    talk to you later!

  222.  #222oops! on September 29, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Oops, it was more than “a minute.” It was several, and the entire time he is hovering around me, creating a physical barrier between me and that guy. And after the banana chip incident, 3 three of us journeyed through the store in sync. I laughed and played and danced around with my Li and I avoided eye contact with the guy. Towards the end, when I knew the guy would be checking out, I made out with my LI for a bit.

  223.  #223oops! on September 29, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Oh there was another funny moment when we passed Him while I was following my LI down the aisle while scratching his back and chanting “I love my Baby!”

  224.  #224Meemee on September 30, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Hi all the wonderful women out there, I need your help. I feel like shit. I am just breaking down. I feel I am unable to manage the stress. I feel unable to manage the relationship. He does not care, he does not call, he does not take me out, when I try to talk he calls me dysfunctional and neurotic. I feel like throwing things and just shutting myself down. I have been trying to get away from this toxic toxic relationship, but find myself in the same old pattern again and over again. I ask myself why should I be with a man, sleep with a man who does not care about me. I almost made up my mind and kept myself away for more than two weeks. Then again, back to square one. I found myself trying to talk to him, persuade him and begging to him to spend some time with me.
    What should I do???????
    Help me find some perspective pls.

  225.  #225Jennifer on September 30, 2010 at 4:17 am

    Curioser and curioser….
    Yesterday…..I went to my aunt and uncle’s to check my uncle’s surgical site…Yeah for free nursing…well inreturn for cake.
    My cousin was there. She asked how my date was with schoolyard guy. I said he stood me up.
    She got really upset. She said she’s gonna smack him.
    I said…it’s not a big deal, there’s lots of men around if he doesn’t wanna step up.
    She “offered” me another guy at her work. LOL. I said..give him my cell #. He can call me if he likes. Them my aunt chimes in with the idea that I should contact another cousin who works with corrections, he has lots of single co workers.
    Then my phone rang last night and my brother says…
    you have a date this weekend. I told him i have to go away to work.
    He says…then we’ll work something else out. This guy I work with is a stand up dude.
    Wow. That’s high praise from my brother.
    He don’t like ANYBODY.
    Well, his wife, thier son, our immediate family, sometimes my sisters husband…not always. His four best buddies from highschool… and that’s IT.
    Then this morinign the email says that eharmony was not able to bill my payment to my credit card….
    Ok Universe, I’m listening.
    I hear you.
    Thank you.

  226.  #226BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 5:00 am

    OK ladies on Saturday for lunch I HAVE my first time ever POST RR man to meet………….I am sooo nervous NOT because I am that into him, which I am not, but instead of being just lil ol’ me……..ya know who I usually am, I have to take on this whole new persona of a Diva/Goddess, not sure if I am really up to scratch yet………….but I do need some RR life lessons here ladies………

    Lean back in the chair without falling backwards and onto my a**e, open facing hands towards him, feeling messages…………….OOOMMMMMGGGG this is all just too hard to do………can’t I just be my own usual male energy go at ’em and DO it self…….well no I can’t or I will be ALONE forever and a day……


  227.  #227Jennifer on September 30, 2010 at 5:03 am

    Barb…honey…I suggest breathing.
    this is scary sometimes. But fun sometimes too. Do yourself a favour. Anticipate the fun.
    I feel very excited for you.
    I feel very hopeful for you.
    Post as soon as you get home!!!

  228.  #228BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Had a lovely day off work today and dated myself, shopped for some lovely curtains for my new apartment and also bought some silver sparkly bits to shine, had a nice lunch by myself in a super cafe then went to do more shopping, had a lovely pedicure and went to buy some groceries. Tried on a few floaty dresses a la Katarina… but they were way too short, I may have the sexy long legs but women of a certain age (me!) shouldn’t dress that way…………..soooo for lunch date on Saturday is it OK if I wear tight jeans a nice floaty top??

  229.  #229BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 5:05 am

    and not a duh!!

  230.  #230BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 5:08 am

    Jennifer I intend to post believe me!! Honestly I am sooo not nervous about meeting this man………..I am soooo much more nervous about doing the Rori Raye never done before stuff LOL!!

    Hows that judo going and that cinnamon oil which I still haven’t researched……

    Barb x

  231.  #231BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 5:21 am


    I still don’t understand what it is that I am supposed to have learnt from this “other woman” thread………I have learnt nothing from the story other than Jacqueline was brave enough to have posted it……….

  232.  #232Mercedes on September 30, 2010 at 7:11 am

    BarbinOz: I’m with you. I have yet to learn from the “other woman” either. Didn’t learn a thing from her other than how not to act…but I already knew that so…got nothin. I don’t know why a woman would sleep with a man who was attached to someone else. I can’t even imagine it being enough for me…not even for a minute. And I can’t imagine hurting someone like that. I can’t imagine why a guy would do it either. Why not take care of ending one thing before starting another? Why not, at the first sign of trouble in a relationship, work to heal what you have before running to another person? I don’t understand it. Never will I’m sure.

    I’m late to the other conversations but my thoughts:

    Anytime someone (man or woman) asks me a question that is (as tinque put it) none of their business I smile sweetly and ask: “Why do you ask?”. They almost never know what to say other that “I’m just curious” because they can’t say “I’m interested in making a judgement about you.” They say “I’m just curious” I say “hmmm….interesting” and they leave the conversation feeling very uncomfortable about being so darn nosey… 🙂

    On why a guy would go hot and cold and hot and cold and still want to spend time with you and have sex. It’s usually because he wants to be friends with benefits but doesn’t know how to ask for that (because most women will say no). If it were me, I would believe what he says not what he does (opposite of Dan’s adivce…and that almost NEVER happens). If a man tells me he doesn’t see a future with me, I believe him. If he still wants to spend time with me as friends, I will as long as I have nothing more than friend feelings for him either. And if he still wants to have sex, I only would if friends with benefits was also what I was looking for (but it’s never been what I was looking for).

    Anyway…that’s me…

    And I’ve missed being here…

    And…I have to try to get some work done…

    Much Love,

  233.  #233Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 9:06 am


    I almost wrote a book about the year I stopped wearing jeans……so I’m pretty biased. I wear them sometimes, usually for housework….or because I’m feeling very boy and I add the baseball cap….but I pair it with a sexy blazer 🙂
    I don’t like jeans….on a woman….I actually own 3 pairs…and it feels like too many…oh wait 4 pairs, one I can’t fit anymore 🙂
    My big gripe is when a woman sits down….all this low-rise Jean thing can be unflattering when a woman sits and has to mind the backside….it’s distracting…..
    I prefer black leggings and floaty tops….then I feel as though I’m wearing a little dress with really thick tights….. But..

    If you feel sexy in jeans then that’s all that matters….a soft fabric top…preferably in color if you have it ….baby steps 🙂

  234.  #234Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Hi Renee,

    Remember this?

    Do You Bare Your Past or Keep Secrets


    Because I’m a writer – I tell all.

    I write books and novels about my past. And my husband doesn’t read them, nor do I offer them to him to read, nor do I talk about my past.

    Why is this?

    I’m a person who naturally – and in seeming opposition to my extrovert qualities and professional confessional willingness plays it very “close to the vest.”

    It takes a lot for me to allow a person – a new friend, for example, to get inside my personal world, to allow into my fantasies and emotions.

    This is a completely different thing than the intimacy of sharing 100% the emotions and fantasies that are happening in the moment in their presence.

    Truth is – my husband doesn’t want to know about my past. Not how many men I slept with and what they were like. What it felt like when I was in love with other men in my past.

    And he KNOWS he doesn’t want to know. He just isn’t interested.

    If he was – he would read my books.

    Some men might be seriously interested because they want to JUDGE. You want to stay away from a man like that.

    And you may feel compelled to “tell all” in the name of intimacy.

    But the past is not your present – and it belongs only to YOU – and how you choose to share it should all have to do with what feels good in the cause of intimacy – and most of the time – the past is useless in the cause of intimacy.

    If you have an urge to “confess” – don’t listen to that impulse.

    Intimacy is not about not having privacy, or secrets from before you met a man.

    On the other hand, if I felt he was curious, or interested in the name of “knowing me deeply inside and out” – I’d consider sharing. I’d consider handing over my books that are publicly available anyway right on Amazon and saying “It would feel good to have you read these so that you know more about the inside of me.

    But he KNOWS it’s not a “small thing.”

    Does a man really want to know how your feminine soul works? Or does he just want to TOUCH your feminine soul and BE WITH your feminine soul right NOW?

    Does he want you to know every last moment of his life that he’s ashamed of, or that brings back nightmares for him? Does he want you to heal him by hearing his confessional?

    People develop deep intimacy when they go through things together.

    Like the bungee jump on The Bachelor. Can’t beat it for going through something together that brings up primal emotions.

    But trying to understand you from how you behaved “then” is very different from connecting with you NOW.

    What’s going on is how you are feeling about and framing your OWN past – it’s the peace you’ve not yet established that causes the impulse to confess.

    Telling secrets to a girlfriend is very different from telling secrets to your lover.

    Writing my secrets through the characters in my novels is very different from telling about the sex and relationships I had when I was 30. Saying “I was wild” suffices for that. Telling a man about your attractions to other men goes into this category.

    And so I come back to this – your fantasy life is your own. It doesn’t require “sharing.”

    And that goes for your fantasy life, right now – even though you’re in a wonderfully committed relationship!

    Intimacy is about having fantasies TOGETHER!

    That means kinky sex with you BOTH in the SAME fantasy – or at least sharing your separate ones.

    Very very different from choosing to share last night’s dream where an old lover showed up in a big way – whether it was a loving or mean way.

    Very very different from choosing to share that you got turned on when you saw his best friend in a bathing suit.

    Now – I’m not saying that sharing these things is not a good thing.  Real incredible intimacy would be truly enhanced by being able to say and share ANYTHING – but – trying to jump to that place of absolute sharing when we are all fighting even the small bits of intimacy standing right in front of us – Feeling Messages and the poetry of who we are – that’s a false kind of leap.

    When you can share your everyday dreams and anger and fear with him, and he with you…in a way that’s thrilling to both of you and feels safe and luxurious to both of you – then you can make all kinds of forays into higher realms of “radical honesty.”

    Until then – it’s totally okay to say “I don’t know…” or “I don’t feel ready to talk about that yet…” It’s okay – because THAT’S telling the truth, too!  And THAT can open up all kinds of discussions too!

    I believe we all want instant things. Silver Bullets. Magic Pills. And so we think that taking major leaps will get us past our small obstacles.

    And I DO believe that things can shift on a dime – instantly.

    But it’s that hoping and wishing that major leaps will somehow take care of the small steps that lie between where we are and where we want to be that’s actually just one more distraction for us. One more avoidance of what really is – and the REAL work there is to do.

    Don’t worry about whether or not to share your past. Just share your present.

    That’s all that counts.

    Love, Rori

    written by Rori Raye • Permalink • Leave a Comment »

    Wednesday, 14 July 2010 @ 1:04pm

  235.  #235Renee on September 30, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Ok, so things continue to develop w/Blondie, but they continue to confuse me as well.

    He asked me to come over to his house, which I agreed to, partially because it meant I didn’t have to straighten up my house and partially because he had to be up early for work (I didn’t) and his house is closer to his work than mine (he had asked if I would feel comfortable staying the night despite our new ‘no sex’ rule and I had told him I would see how I felt at the end of the evening but that right now now it felt like that would be ok).

    Several things happened that made me feel a little weird, starting with…he sat me down and told me he had something to admit to me, that he night before, when he had left around 1am, he realized he’d left something at my house and turned around to come back to get it. (He called but I had my phone turned off.) When he approached my house, he saw me pulling out in my car (I hadn’t eaten and was going to get a late-night burger) and, overtaken by curiosity, decided to follow me to see where I was going.

    I guess I should have felt invaded, and I flashed on that briefly, but more than that, I actually felt good that he was feeling possessive enough to care whether I was going to see another man. He said he felt he should apologize, but that if he had it to do over again, he would probably do the same thing and that he hoped that I understood that it was because he cared enough about me that he felt like he just had to know if I was heading over to another man’s house for a booty call after we had just spent 5 hrs together talking about “us” and making out and that he was relieved and somewhat embarrassed to find that I was just heading out for a burger.

    I told him I felt flattered to a certain extent but that it also felt weird and I asked him if he was willing to invade my privacy that way, would he invade it in other ways too, like going through my things or reading my email on my computer by the sofa when I left the room. He swore that he would never, ever do those things but that he just couldn’t seem to help himself the previous night after the emotionally intense evening we had just shared. I told him that after he had just laid his ‘I want to slow things down and not have sex for a while’ speech on me, that he had no right to assert a claim on me and that if I had gone to see another man it would be my business. He said he knew he didn’t have a claim on me but that if I had actually gone to sleep with another man after the intense evening we had shared that things would have been over between us and he wouldn’t have contacted me again to even tell me why because I was not the person he thought I was if I was heading out for 1am booty calls.

    I said I didn’t know what to think…that I was trying to put myself in the same position and figure out if, given the circumstances, I would have done the same thing and that I honestly wasn’t sure what I would have done but admitted it would have been tempting. I suspect a lot of people would have been angry at that point, but, putting myself in his shoes, I kind of understood and I knew if I discovered he was sleeping with someone else, I would have ended things as well.

    So…he got a call he’d been waiting on and the topic was dropped…we went out to eat and on the way, a friend of his (one of the few I haven’t met) called and he asked me, as a joke of sorts, to answer the phone. This was one of his few single friends whom he chides for working too much and not making time for a personal life and he had me, as a dig, ask the man how his girlfriend was to which he replied that he didn’t have a girlfriend, which Blondie knew, and he admitted he was working way too much, blah, blah, blah. Blondie took the phone at that point and said to the man, “ask me how my girlfriend is” which obviously peaked my curiosity…man says, “how is your girlfriend” and Blondie says, “I don’t have a girlfriend either, but I have a serious dating partner…we like to keep things that way.” Well, that felt like a punch in the stomach…like he was teasing me with the possibility that he was going to call me his girlfriend for the first time and then pulled the rug out from under me.

    I should have said something…if I was being completely authentic, I would have, but I was afraid of appearing possessive and too hung up on having the “girlfriend” title, and I didn’t. Even though I realize Rori encourages us to be authentic at all times, I felt afraid of appearing needy and I don’t think that conversation would have turned out well.

    I swallowed my feelings, had a drink, and tried to relax, but I was feeling insecure and having a hard time getting into the conversation, but I did my best to “go with the flow” and chitchat about our days and current events, etc. At some point, he said he was really looking forward to Saturday and meeting the rest of my family and he started talking about the upcoming home football games (we’ve tailgaited at two so far and had fun) and he asked if he could assume I was his date for all the remaining home games…actually, he said, “could I just pencil you in for every Saturday through, say, mid-November? Or do we need to play it by ear?” I said I guessed it would be better to play it by ear right now. He said he wanted to spend New Year’s with me this year, that he wanted to ring in a new beginning with me…he’d like to go to Key West with me, but it didn’t really matter where we went as long as he was with me. Hmmm…this helped quell my insecurity, but I was still having a hard time shaking my resentment of his dangling the “girlfriend” title in front of me only to yank it away. I didn’t commit one way or the other, I just smiled and gave him a kiss on the cheek and that seemed to be enough of an answer for him.

    We went back to his house and things got hot and heavy…we got carried away and did “everything but” and even though I felt guilty for allowing us to go so far, I did feel closer to him and we cuddled and chatted and overall, it felt good.

    We cuddled and watched a so-so movie and I felt very comfortable. He asked me if I felt comfortable at his house and he said he hoped so because it felt good to have me there. We were both nodding off towards the end of the movie (and I had told him “no more funny business tonight”) so we went to bed and were planning to go straight to sleep, but we started talking a little.

    He said he had said a prayer for me the night before when he got home…”what did you pray about?” I asked. him: “I thanked God for bringing you into my life…and I prayed that I wouldn’t break your heart.” me: “You prayed you wouldn’t break my heart?”…I removed the leg that was draped over his and paused. him: “You’re moving away…you didn’t like what I just said.” me: “That felt bad to hear that you feel you need to pray not to hurt me.” Silence.

    him: “Are you thinking you want to go home?” me: “That’s just what I was thinking”…(pause)…”that might be best” (getting out of bed).

    He got up too and said he didn’t want me to go but he wasn’t going to beg me to stay. him: “I didn’t mean to upset you by telling you that. And I didn’t really tell you the whole prayer…that one thing was kind of out of context.” me: “What was the whole thing then?” him: “Well, I think I prayed that neither one of us got hurt actually.” me: “It feels bad that you feel you need prayers to prevent you from hurting me…I feel very vulnerable right now.” him: “I feel vulnerable too, Renee, maybe even more than you.” me: “More than me? How is that?” him (sighing): “That is likely a long conversation and it’s really too late on a work night to get into that right now.” me: (pausing, thinking, feeling like I’m probably over-reacting but also feeling like he has all the power at this moment and I want to run away so I don’t feel vulnerable anymore). him: (getting up to help me with my necklace) “Are you sure you want to make such a statement move — driving home at 1am — tonight? Wouldn’t you rather wait until you’re really mad at me?” me: “I’m not mad…I just…I just feel feel very vulnerable…it was sweet of you to pray for me and for you to thank God for bringing me into your life, but I feel I’m leaving myself really open right now and I don’t want to do that.” him: “Well then where does that leave us?” me: “I don’t know…I need to think about that.” And he walked me to my car and I left.

    By the time I got home, I felt both relief to be “hidden” from him and also foolish for making such a big deal out of it. I txted him that I was sorry I left the way I did, but that I was scared…scared because it had felt so good and so right being there with him and when he said the thing about hurting me, it made me flashback on all that weirdness from the othe night and I just got scared.

    I said I thought about just walking away from him that night and never seeing him again, but that I realized if I were lucky enough to meet someone else I had such a special connection with that the fear of being hurt would probably surface again and that I figured I should probably just try to deal with the fear now because it would likely rear its ugly head with anyone I cared about.

    I said I wanted to keep my heart open to him but I would probably get scared again at some point, so I would need him to be patient and understanding when that happened. I wanted to give him the time he needed to get comfortable with having me in his life, but it would be best if I continued to see other poeple right now and give them a fair chance and his being tied up with his girls the next couple of days would help me do that. (He knows about my date w/the dr Fri night.)

    I told him I still wanted him to come with me to the family function Saturday and I still wanted to continue getting to know him and to see what we could build. I wanted to be able to trust him completely with my heart and I thought that could come in time, but I needed him to continue being completely honest with me.

    He txted me early this morning that he understood and agreed with my assessment of the situation. He’s really looking forward to seeing me Sat night and meeting my older sister (she’s the one most likely to embarrass me, so he can’t wait to see what she says.) I didn’t reply because I wanted to give him his space and it didn’t seem to require a reply, though he just txted me again a few minutes ago wishing me luck with my afternoon meeting and telling me he’s missing me terribly.

    I feel like I want to back off, but I don’t really know how. I really like him (obviously) and most of the time, I feel like he really cares for me (there were a couple of times, during the evening, when he was just looking at me with a half-smile on his face and when I said, “what?”, he said it was too soon to tell me, which made me think he wanted to tell me he was falling for me, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

    If, lovely sirens, you’re still reading at this point, I appreciate your indulgence in my pouring all this out on the blog…I’m doing it, in part, because I am interested in any insights you may have, but also because it’s forcing me to recall the entire evening’s conversations, and not just the one at the end that made me scared.

    When I remember him asking about spending every Saturday with me for the next 6 wks and telling me he wanted to spend New Year’s with me, it feels good, like he wants me to be in his life for some time to come, but I guess I wish it were just more straightforward…less messy…but I guess I just have to realize that starting a relationship is often messy and if I’m just patient, good things may happen…bad things may happen too, but I’m going to have to be open to the bad if I want to be open to the good. Thoughts?

  236.  #236Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Hello Renee,

    Thank you for sharing! I enjoy reading your posts as your romance unfolds! Please never feel apologetic for the length of your posts! You are most welcome to write whatever is on your heart and mind, no matter how lengthy!

    I cringed in the first part when you said, “I swallowed my feelings, had a drink, and tried to relax, but I was feeling insecure.” I wished you would unzip your heart and say, “That feels weird. I feel insecure hearing the “GF” word dangled in front of me and then pulled out from under me. I don’t like that. What do you think?”

    But then for the rest of your evening, you were very open and vulnerable with your feelings. If it were me, I would have sunk into the vulnerable scared feelings and just rode them out while I expressed them to him, even if it meant tears flowing down my cheeks.

    He was giving you deep emotional intimacy to share that prayer with you. The way I would interpret it if it were me is that things were getting so close that he was afraid he would accidentally do something to hurt you, and he didn’t want to. Consider this, one of my favorite quotes:

    “Those we love the most are capable of hurting us the most.”

    Would you agree with me that most of your hurts are around loved ones? The deeper someone gets in your heart, the more easily you get hurt. It’s not that he is trying to. It’s that he knows he is entering a place that is so sacred and tender that he is afraid of moving too fast or doing anything that will hurt you.

    Early on in my relationship with Ryan, I told him, “I will never intentionally hurt you. But I am inherently flawed, so sometimes I MAY hurt you. Just no that it is never my intent. And please tell me if I do, so I can learn to be most sensitive to you.”

    There is a huge difference between hurting someone unintentionally and intentionally. I know. I have experienced both.

    If I were in your relationship, I would feel like everything is on the up and up, and I would be excited out of my skin!

    It looks like you are learning to unzip your Siren heart baby step by baby step! The more vulnerable you are with him, the more feminine power you will find!

  237.  #237Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Renee –

    I will say this … I feel more and more concerned reading your posts the past few days…

    it feels bad to see what looks to me as focusing on the man…

    and him telling you he wouldn’t see you if you saw another man after him… would feel scary to me…

    it reminds me of the article Rori wrote mentioning subconcious “threat” – ie the guy who warns his date that he has been cheated on before, in effect this threatens her that if she’s not “true blue” and dates another man, he will leave…

    yet they are not married so…

    anyway, i hear that you wanted to be called girlfriend by him… at first i felt good, because i thought he called you a serious dating partner because you had given him the no girlfriend speech…

    it just seems you are really focusing on him more and more… and trying to be “understanding” of him, rather than in your own feelings and boundaries…

    it feels scary… to me…

    I don’t want to see you jump in the pits with this guy… concerned about what he thinks, and will he leave if i date other men, etc…

    I want to see you stepping on your bridge to reach your happily ever after, as many men pursue you … and one sweeps you off your feet and proposes life together…

  238.  #238Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:21 am

    PS – all this talk about his feelings… and how “he’s more scared than you”

    I wouldn’t want to talk about that in terms of his feelings like that, it would feel like a turn off – it seems to me like some pattern that he’s playing out, and that’s slipping him into feminine energy –

    i would outgirl him at this point – (which would probably heal this pattern for him) – and really share my feelings so that he is put in the masculine role – which is what’s healthy and what is best for him too

    even tho at this point he wasn’t holding into it himself, due to his triggers and patterns… well i know how to heal an insecure man now… treat him like a man… don’t allow him to fall into feminine and put me in masculine

    it’s really been working with My cd who was doing some feminine/insecure stuff…

    i’ve just continued to treat him as the man, and now he seems more secure in it, and very happy, and he’s acting strong and masculine

    as if i was able to “see him through” his muck by not letting him slip into that feminie insecurity, and now he’s assured that he’s a man … and probably wondering why he feels manly with me…( a guess)

  239.  #239Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:26 am

    oohhh! i feel so glad you told him that you want to continue dating others.. it sounds like it opened up at the end and you got back into your feminine… letting him know you were scared

    how to back off:

    lean back –

    don’t call , text

    Don’t drive to his house, even if he asks… let him Plan Dates

    don’t think about him… lol!

    do the Floating baloon tool where you rise above the city and see many men see how many men there are there, and the 100 men exercise – where 100 handsome men surround you, offering you gifts, and you allow them closer


    to back off even more, don’t be available for last minute plans..

  240.  #240Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:28 am

    to me, the prayer thing was overdramatic, rather than deep emotional intimacy. It’s something guys easily do, and then they don’t know they’re doing it, and they get all feminine, then they feel bad and turned off and turn on Me , and don’t know why

    it’s cuz they got stuck in their patterns

    the best thing i can do for men is tell them that i feel weird and scared, and turned off

    then they may turn away from that “dark and lonely path” maybe something they weren’t able to do on their own… and get back to being masculine… where they feel good! and attracted to me!

  241.  #241Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Brenda – sorry if this feels harsh to hear…

    what you said to Ryan is a beautiful expression of protective masculine energy… I root for Ryan saying something similar to you, in the very near future…

    ” “I will never intentionally hurt you. But I am inherently flawed, so sometimes I MAY hurt you. Just no that it is never my intent. And please tell me if I do, so I can learn to be most sensitive to you.”

    and you knowing that you cannot Hurt a man, not by being feminine, when he is in his masculinity


    ps – i have doen the same, protective masculine loving, of my guywhohadababy in the past… ohh… i would’ve given him anything … if only he would be mine… but he didn’t want to be mine in a feminie role!! thank goodness! now… i get to be feminine… and i would’ve not known…

  242.  #242Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Hi Renee, I read your narrative with mixed feelings — so I can certainly understand why You have mixed feelings! The prayer about breaking my heart would really have bothered me — like a husband telling me that he’s been praying that he won’t cheat on me. I don’t know. I would be interested in Tinque’s perspective as a happily permanently committed lady (aka married but not) 😉


  243.  #243lm on September 30, 2010 at 11:38 am


    Interesting…i too find that guys feel yucky when they are girly (or they are acting girly because they feel bad…) and walking away and telling them you feel turned off is the best thing you can do, for both of you.

  244.  #244Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Midnight Texter Man and I “broke up” last night. hehe. About time. Good riddance.

  245.  #245Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 11:40 am

    An excerpt from
    To a Child, Love is Spelled T-I-M-E
    by Mac Anderson

    In the faint light of the attic, an old man, tall and stooped, bent his great frame and made his way to a stack of boxes that sat near one of the little half-windows. Brushing aside a wisp of cobwebs, he tilted the top box toward the light and began to carefully lift out one old photograph album after another. Eyes once bright but now dim searched longingly for the source that had drawn him here.

    It began with the fond recollection of the love of his life, long gone, and somewhere in these albums was a photo of her he hoped to rediscover. Silent as a mouse, he patiently opened the long buried treasures and soon was lost in a sea of memories. Although his world had not stopped spinning when his wife left it, the past was more alive in his heart than his present aloneness.

    Setting aside one of the dusty albums, he pulled from the box what appeared to be a journal from his grown son’s childhood. He could not recall ever having seen it before, or that his son had ever kept a journal. Why did Elizabeth always save the children’s old junk? he wondered, shaking his white head.

    Opening the yellowed pages, he glanced over a short reading, and his lips curved in an unconscious smile. Even his eyes brightened as he read the words that spoke clear and sweet to his soul. It was the voice of the little boy who had grown up far too fast in this very house, and whose voice had grown fainter and fainter over the years. In the utter silence of the attic, the words of a guileless six-year-old worked their magic and carried the old man back to a time almost totally forgotten.

    Entry after entry stirred a sentimental hunger in his heart like the longing a gardener feels in the winter for the fragrance of spring flowers. But it was accompanied by the painful memory that his son’s simple recollections of those days were far different from his own. But how different?

    Reminded that he had kept a daily journal of his business activities over the years, he closed his son’s journal and turned to leave, having forgotten the cherished photo that originally triggered his search. Hunched over to keep from bumping his head on the rafters, the old man stepped to the wooden stairway and made his descent, then headed down a carpeted stairway that led to the den.

    Opening a glass cabinet door, he reached in and pulled out an old business journal. Turning, he sat down at his desk and placed the two journals beside each other. His was leather-bound and engraved neatly with his name in gold, while his son’s was tattered and the name Jimmy had been nearly scuffed from its surface. He ran a long skinny finger over the letters, as though he could restore what had been worn away with time and use.

    As he opened his journal, the old man’s eyes fell upon an inscription that stood out because it was so brief in comparison to other days. In his own neat handwriting were these words:

    Wasted the whole day fishing with Jimmy.
    Didn’t catch a thing.

    With a deep sigh and a shaking hand, he took Jimmy’s journal and found the boy’s entry for the same day, June 4. Large scrawling letters, pressed deeply into the paper, read:

    Went fishing with my Dad. Best day of my life.

  246.  #246lm on September 30, 2010 at 11:43 am

    note to self: hmmm…it’s time for some new beliefs around men.

    how about: allowing a man to give to me and to step up is a gift to him as well?

    i like that.

  247.  #247Daria on September 30, 2010 at 11:45 am

    ohh stories of being old and feeling lonely scare me so bad… i started crying way before the middle… i love my feelings… i want this healed… thank you…


  248.  #248Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:01 pm


    I just agreed to my first date with a new man since my date with WH (2 months ago).

    I agreed because he is interesting and a wealthy doctor and an actor, so it could be fun . . . but I already know he’s not “the one” — not even close —


    while emailing about this date on Match, I of course saw WH’s picture on my home page and then again on the side of the page where I was writing my email to this new guy……………

    And all I really want is WH.

    I want WH.

    I want him to love me like crazy.


    I want what I want and I want it NOW!!!!

    NOW, I say! NOW!!!!!!

  249.  #249Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    A doctor and an actor? How does that work?

  250.  #250Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Hehe. Nikita, he is semi-retired (age 54) — works part-time as an ER doctor, and the rest of the time pursues his acting career.

  251.  #251Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    It is interesting that every man I am attracted to (even a little, like this guy) is an entertainer/performer of some kind — fits that “Magician” personality type that matches my “Queen” on that thingy we did here a few weeks ago. (Who was it that showed us that test?)

    TN man — an “extra” for movies, and an all-around clown

    WH — singer/songwriter and funny guy

    Doc (new guy) — actor and Ren Faire cast

  252.  #252Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Mmmmm……so….sounds to me…..he could be really hot…..or really feminine 🙂

    But I have an aversion to the artistic type……I will NOT be outgirled!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The only actor I think is hot is Clive Owen……omg! I met him too…..and then I melted……and then I thought,hey! Make a move dude…..and then nothing…..and then I googled him….and found out he was married and then I mourned….and then I got over it 🙂

    But…..he is PUrrFECT :))))

    I respect him more for not making a move….and that makes him the hottest actor EVER!!! Sigh….ok…I’m feeling way too aroused now. Darn.

  253.  #253Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 12:19 pm


    RE: #238 – Me too. I feel scared of getting old. My breasts used to be perfect. Now they’re not pretty. I used to get carded, as recently as a year ago. Now…ugh. I need to come to terms with it. I thought I was always going to be 25. 🙁

  254.  #254Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I think Denise did…..i am a lover/queen/magician… alternates 🙂

    I just stick with warriors 🙂

    I like big guys that are driven by aggression….like pop eye !!!!!
    It’s less confusing for me. I don’t want to “figure Sh*t out”….nah…..that’s too much work.
    I feel way better focusing on what I’m going to wear! Or eat….or when I’m going to do laundry…..mmmm….now might be a good time…..I think I have enough to do a load 🙂 not really :(…… Whatever…it can be a small load!

  255.  #255Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Haha, Nikita. I only like masculine artistic types. This new guy doesn’t seem feminine at all. Both my sons are masculine artists.

    I am having no trouble at all outgirling him.

    The retail guy who has been texting me for six months, on the other hand…. oh my gosh!!! Last night he texted something, and all I could think of to respond was a smiley face. So he answers, “Feels good to get a smile.”

    I <3 creative, artistic, manly men.

  256.  #256Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I just completed my transaction for that WH CD I bought on ebay.

  257.  #257Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    <3 …what is this?

  258.  #258Daria on September 30, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Brenda – its a heart

  259.  #259Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Knowing Brenda, she thought it was a symbol for f**k

    I <3 creative, artistic, manly men.

    Hehe. love you, Brenda!!!

  260.  #260Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Oh and Bruce Willis mmmmm…..yummy 🙂
    I still don’t like actors though…..nope! None for me thanks 😉
    I like builders, mechanical types, math geeks! Nerds…..and…..real estate guys…..swoon!

  261.  #261Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Daria and Lucy,

    Thank you! I’ve been seeing it everywhere lately! I thought (and you know me too well, Lucille!), “Hmmm, a big-busted hugg? Dick and balls?” Never thot of a heart! LOL!

  262.  #262Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Oh and a man in a suit!!!!!!!! Eeeek!!!! I melt almost every time …….my guy wouldn’t be caught dead in a suit 🙁
    But that’s ok….he can fix stuff…..but I stare at the suit and tie boys :)…… (drool)

  263.  #263Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I knew it!!!!! I knew she she saw balls!!!!!!!!!! Aaaw look it’s a heart…..I see balls :p

  264.  #264Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Daria, I love the veiled threat thing, I’ve had it dont to me many times – any idea where the post is?

    @ Mercedes & Barb….Learning from the other woman, or a stripper? I think when Rori and I first talked that was her point. What is your man doing going to someone else for companionship etc. In this case – well, from several women I’ve heard from – originally he went off to Vietnam, they were dating in college; while he was gone she moved into his parents home, he came home she was there they shared a room and his Daddy said marry her. THAT is when I think you get into a slippery slope – OR when 20 years later, or 10 and your home taking care of the kids and haven’t really talked to him in weeks or months, OR you’re withholding sex or any “veiled threat,” thing…THIS IS what you’re going to get. Some version of it, and it happens a LOT for women as well.

    I know your story includes J cheating Mercedes and I have always wondered how you would take mine.

    So, I think there is also some point to be made about simply sharing a story – why do you share yours? It’s about overcoming, but it might not have been, and yet it still would have been valuable to some.

    And maybe it’s a story about what it takes to move out of/get out of poverty – I love the line, there’s a poverty that’s a tyranny of spirit. If I had stayed I’d have been so terrorized by the tire shop I’d of been crazy by now, or living with just ANY man for protection. For me, that’s what the story is – how to get OUT – how hard it is, how you do what you have to do, how maybe it really is that bad where you ARE….

    And, Barb, you know I’m glad you’re here, but when you jumped in and said and I was the wife? Ummm, NO you weren’t – his wife REFUSED to grant him a divorce – did you? and his daughters had both graduated high school. Doesn’t sound like your situation at all – she wasn’t at home being a “good” little wife, she’d abjucated any responsibility for the older daughter – and look how that turned out, her in jail and loosing custody of her own 3 under 3 year old children?! a long time before; wanted to kick the girl out onto the street when she was 14 (echoes of my mother, there).

    I don’t think that’s you, is it? What do you think? I doubt you even read the whole story? Which is interesting in terms of what projection will do?

    I definitely don’t think there’s a how to ebook in it, but Rori’s kind of an expert on these things and she thought there was something to learn. Smile – and for her, I think it had to do with being feminine and being connected through leaning back and listening at level 2.



  265.  #265Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    You picked a fine time…to leave me….Lucille 🙂


  266.  #266Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    That line about it’s about overcoming was referring to Mercedes story, but it reads like it’s mine, and I guess it is – maybe that’s what all stories are?

  267.  #267Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Interesting, Nikita….. TN man and WH, in addition to being creative, artistic, and manly, are total math-science-computer genius nerds as well! And since Doc is a doc, I’m assuming he’s a little math-science geeky too.

  268.  #268Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    I’m not crazy about real estate guys, although my best friend’s real estate hubby is pretty darn hot!

  269.  #269Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Lol, Brenda! All those times I signed my posts, “<3 Lucy" ….. THAT"S what you thought I meant????? Lol.

  270.  #270Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    I like Neal Caffery in a suit. Yum!

  271.  #271Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Real estate is very creative 🙂

    Takes lots of imagination 🙂

    Oooh….I could get into a carpenter….that’s artsy!!!!!
    And masculine 🙂 mmmmm…..saws…..and hammers…..and drills…..and math!!!!!

  272.  #272Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Google Neil ….. Excuse me for a moment.

  273.  #273Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Hi, everyone…..Lucy, maybe now that you miss WH you will know what to look for to find the perfect one? You’ve got a template so to speak? and the midnite break up guy – was that the mean one? wow….good luck on the date.

    Oh, and you too Barb – jeans, a camisole and a frilly blouse work well.

    and….I hate to see all the stuff on here about “old” – I am 52 –
    the largest percentage of guys who asked me out where 35 or so…Jonathon and Lizzie both talk about how hard it is to find guys in their 40’s. I don’t think age has to do with it, song there…

    I think there’s an age below which I will not date, that eventually my boobs or my face or something’s going to give me away, but really there’s not going around it – unless you’ve got big bucks. I mean, look at Cher – has. not. aged. a minute in 20 years??!!! And she makes something like close to $600,000 a year…

    Until I’ve got that kind of cash, I’m going to have to accept aging, and just work on my “vibe.” Cuz that’s really, under it all – what men are going for. If you’re going to really connect and NOT be a trophy, you’re going to have a vibe of receptivity, etc.

    Brenda, I’m sure you’ve got that vibe. I know there are lots of biases around looks, but when Jonathon explained his Michelle Pfeifer reference (and that thing about her being old was a joke – because again – money! who can look like that in real life??!!)…

    and he said don’t let being overweight be an excuse, I really liked it. I think there’s more judgement around weight than there is around job status or beauty and it’s unfortunate. But I also think there are men that like heavy women – it’s just a subset within a subset that makes it mathmatically harder to find. So you’ve gotta work harder at it, or at loosing weight, or at whatever.

    Or you just change the vibe, lean back, smile at people for 5 seconds, act interested, etc. and somewhere along the line….there’s that guy – well hopefully several so you can compare?

    LOL…Happy day, yall!


  274.  #274Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Ugh…..he looked like a girlyman to me….so I wikipedia’d him and ……but of course he is a libra……the ultimate in girlymen 🙂

  275.  #275Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    He is handsome though.

  276.  #276Renee on September 30, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Brenda — Thank you for the encouragement. I do feel like I’ve gotten much better at unzipping my heart, which is probably the primary reason why I’ve actually gotten past the one-month mark with a guy for the first time in years. Still not sure what I feel about the prayer thing…all I know is that when he said it, it sounded like he had all the power and I didn’t like that.

    Daria — I appreciate your perspective in several regards, the primary one being your concern that I’ve fallen off my bridge. I do feel kind of lost in this situation…on the one hand, I feel lost in like?/love?/something? when we’re together, but I also feel like I’ve gotten too caught up in the relationship to be ‘safe’ for me. I want to want to date other men, but that’s not really what I want right now…I’d really just prefer to totally melt into my relationship with Blondie, but I’m going to try to fight that urge. This is the first time since I started reading/listening to Rori that I’ve actually been this caught up in a man, so this is hard for me right now.

    I’m making myself go out with a dr tomorrow night who seems to have a great personality…I’m reminding myself that the dr makes more money and is considered a better “catch” by many than Blondie so I’m trying to get psyched about it and have spent some time today writing to other men who’ve been in contact with me online.

    I also get what you’re saying about feeling yucky that he would not want to see me anymore if I had crawled into another man’s bed minutes after he left that night…it would be judgemental of him to do so, but I also accept the reality that men do judge women to a certain extent based on their sexual pasts…they want them to be good in bed and open to exploration, but they also don’t want to get involved with women who “sleep around”…that’s been my experience, anyway.

    I feel mixed feelings about his stating that he may be even more vulnerable than me…I generally like the fact that he’s more emotionally open than most of the men I’ve dated, but there is a danger there of his slipping too much into feminine energy…as far as backing off from him, he asked me on Monday to see him Saturday, so I can’t really complain about that and he knows I have a date tomorrow night while he’s going to be tied up with his kids, so that’s a move in the right direction…I’m going to try to really be open to this guy tomorrow night, but the deeper part of me hopes that Blondie will think about that Friday night and realize that it doesn’t feel good when I see other men. I know I’m too caught up in what he thinks and feels right now, and as much as I’d rather be w/him the next couple of days (which is impossible because of the kids), I’m hoping I’ll get caught up in emailing these other guys and that I’ll regain some of the confidence I feel like is waning because of his “I’m scared” speech.

  277.  #277Daria on September 30, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Jaqueline – sorry if this is harsh/triggering

    i also learned that, it would feel awful to stay with a man that is married…

    and that staying and him saying and even acting in some ways that he loves me doesn’t guarantee that he’ll Commit to me…

    i feel a bit confused about how he got married to the other girl in the end… did he eventually divorce the first wife…

    and how Not to stay with a man who lies to me … about the other woman being a psycho bi9tch he never slept with…

    and that he won’t respect me if i do, and i will NOT want to put myself through that…

    and that strippin is not poppin… for me… I wouldn’t want to be “yelled at” by the man working there… but it Can be done without prostitution… and agression

    and that “feeling bad” for a man about his unhappiness… can easily pull me off my bridge … and into getting tied to him

    and that fixing up houses can be fun…

    and that life is still adventure at 43 for sure and i will still be looking fly like a G 5.

  278.  #278Daria on September 30, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    ps – also that to catch a man’s attention… i am confirmed that sitting alone at a table and sensually sipping my drink IS the way to go…

    and i feel fascinated about teh give a lil to each man thing… i plan on practicing this as much as i can

  279.  #279Daria on September 30, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    my bellydance teacher – Nanna – looks like shes 23…

    but shes starting to have grey hair, and i know she looked the same 10 years ago when i started… and shed been danceing for 20 years then… sooo

    Nanna Candelaria… she’s on youtube and online

  280.  #280Renee on September 30, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Lucy — I had no idea that was a heart either, lol.

    Has it really been 2 months since your date with WH? It doesn’t seem that long…wow, time flies on this blog!

  281.  #281Daria on September 30, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Renee – you are aware… you are doing GREAT! i feel excited about your date on Friday

  282.  #282Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Jacqueline, yes, WH is a template of sorts. He is a “better” (term used loosely) version of both TN man and the guy I was engaged to in college. So I really do know what I like.

    The Midnight Guy was NOT the mean dude from the other day. Midnight Guy has been sometimes cool and fun, but sometimes pushy, defensive, and attacky. We had a little text-fight last night — and I did the walk-away, saying “I am feeling disrespected and i don’t like it. I’m going to sleep now. Goodnight.” He responded with, “Goodnight and goodbye.”

    I say good riddance. I didn’t like him anyway.

    I feel good about the date with Doc (Tuesday, for drinks). I actually remember seeing him in person at the Ren Faire a few years ago when he was working as an actor there. Could be fun….

  283.  #283Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    I like all those things Daria. The woman – his wife, was the most successful chemo taker ever I guess? she went from going to pass in 6 months to living for 6 years – the reason for no divorce, the reason the psychiatrist told me he couldn’t divorce her, etc. So, she got to see all the grandbabies being born, etc. And here’s the part you won’t understand and maybe I don’t either – at that point, I’d basically “BROKEN” his life – he’d been called out by his whole family, shunned, etc. daughter’s hating him, because he “left” her….so now I’m as tied up in it as he is. I felt I could NOT walk away, that I owed him a chance once he was free. Feeling you owe someone is as binding as anything else can/will ever be. He worked his story to some sort of ending that works for him – but I’d bet my house on it – that’s he’s is not happy. I believe and I always will that I was his one shot chance on happiness – and that the whole rest of his life, including marrying the crazy one (who genuinedly was crazy! she called me and stuff – put her 5 year old on the phone to tell me who she lived with – that’s f’d up majorly….) was ALL about DUTY and responsibility.

    So, in that way, he’s a very good man.

    And I AGREE about lies, and the next girl. But we don’t know what someone with an unstable daughter and custody of three small children will do, huh? The next one – that he called psycho, was willing to move into that house I wouldn’t even consider living in, and raise those grandkids. So, my friends tell me there are many reasons for marriage…and Rori tells me it doesn’t matter, even that he lied – or not? – For 9 years I knew where he was every minute pretty much, but hey, he could’ve been cheating his a** off on me, cause that’s what the world says – he cheated on her he’ll cheat on you. Cheating is not my trigger – lying is. So as soon as I found a lie, I was done.

    The guy that yelled at me was a really good guy – yelling at me in a way for my own good. He certainly didn’t have to let me leave that night – my shift wasn’t up for 3 more hours. I think he wanted what was best for me, and he knew some of my story.

    Fixing up houses is fun ONCE then it just gets to be a pain in the house but*….har….and what about the getting out part? I was in DANGER of getting shot – or raped – just by my house being next door to a bunch of drug kingpins…

    I’m not triggered by any of it….maybe that’s the point of telling the story? I expect to be judged, etc. I lived through that – but what’s surprising is how many women are like, oh yeah, I’ve got that urge too, but don’t know what to do. Or like, I feel for a guy hard and he’s married and he has reasons…all that stuff. I kind of want to tell my story for them – and everyone can believe whatever they want to believe.

    One of the reason’s I’m so intrigued with Lizzie’s happy affair story – I never knew you could have a happy one, just a big drama one.

    Grin….so gonna run become blonder….which equals younger!!! yeah for blonde!!!! the anti-ager!

  284.  #284BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    #232 Renee

    I can’t help but see how you have your laser vision focused on this one man. And I know I would/will be EXACTLY the same in your situation because this is how I operate(d) too.

    Reading your post, it seems to me that from maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago, he has gone from being “not all that” to “Maybe The One” and along the way you have
    given your power away to him. You are forgetting as I keep doing, that YOU are the prize, not HIM.

    Listen to the other Sirens who are more experienced than me and turn this dynamic back around…..

  285.  #285Daria on September 30, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Jaqueline – you felt guilty about “ruining his life”… and that’s where I feel glad i have Rori…

    and don’t feel obligated to any man for anything…

    and tho it felt that way… you did not owe him anything…

    I feel bad because i see a woman not putting herself first… in this story

    i dont want that…

  286.  #286BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    #244 Nikita

    Oh sigh sigh sigh to Mr Clive Owen……what a hunk and so nice to hear you met him and he made you melt in real life too, you mean he was actually no 5′ 5″ like lots of actors wooooohoooo!!!

    I remember my daughter going right off Tom Cruise in her younger days when she found out how short he is (she is 5′ 11″ ish) not like she was going to be meeting him real soon for a date LOL!!

  287.  #287BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    #253 Brenda

    I just thought it was a typo, how boring am I not to have your imagination LOL!!

  288.  #288Renee on September 30, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Barb — You are right on…he emerged from ‘just some guy’ I’ve been out with a few times who treats me really well to ‘possibly the one’ and it’s very scary. I’m doubting whether I have it in me to continue to date other men when I’m clearly falling for someone else…I want to do things the “Rori Way”, but I also know that it would feel good to have him want to introduce me as his girlfriend, even if I am able to stick with the “date other men” plan. I don’t know how to continue to open my heart (and my body) to someone without falling in love with him.

    I’ve been very half-hearted in my contact with other men and haven’t been out on a date with another one in almost 2 weeks. I’m making myself go out tomorrow night, but I don’t really want to. I really hope he’s great and is able to distract me…that will help me regain my equilibrium some.

  289.  #289Mercedes on September 30, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Jacqueline: I think I might have been unclear. I wasn’t referring to you, I was referring to my own situation and I didn’t learn anything at all from the woman J cheated on me with. Actually, he was so put off by her afterwards that even HE is embarrassed he was ever attracted to her. He admits it was 100% being scared of how his heart was reacting to me and then this pretty young thing shows up and he did it. Unfortunately for him, pretty young thing is also a gold digger and wanted money from him VERY quickly after meeting him. LOL He sort of deserved to be seen for his money by her…after all, she was seen for her body by him. Karma.

    “So, I think there is also some point to be made about simply sharing a story – why do you share yours? It’s about overcoming, but it might not have been, and yet it still would have been valuable to some. ”

    I don’t have issues at all with you telling a story or me telling a story or anyone else telling a story at all. Doesn’t even trigger me. J did something horrible. I won’t take the blame for that. But at the same time, I won’t compare that to you or to your relationship. I personally would never hurt anyone that way and I don’t understand people who do…but…I don’t think of that other woman when I think of you or make comparisons, etc. All I’m saying is other than what not to do unless you want to rip someone’s heart out, I can’t think of a thing I learned from her.

    For you, maybe the situation was different. He asked for a divorce…there was nothing hidden…that’s not the same as me. For me…he hid it and snuck around and it broke my heart. What he should have done was ended it with me. That’s the grownup manly thing to do anyway…

    Make sense?

    Much Love,

  290.  #290Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Daria – amen to that! Being chained by guilt made me hate him as much as I loved him – and distorted “me” – and how the hell does the mistress get chained into anything? lol….yeah, the last three years of him not letting me go, and me knowing it was NEVER goint to work, were mind warping. I’m so glad you have Rori, and I wish I’d of found her sooner; but life plays out, and I don’t really regret any of it. After I get through being mad at him – which still comes up, I feel a deep compassion, and a curiousity, and a relief that that is no longer MY life. Thanks so much for sharing, this has made the story much more interesting to me.


  291.  #291Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Mercedes – yes, it makes sense and I’m so glad you came back to explain….that’s really nice of you! I know you’re busy busy…so talk again soon and take care!

  292.  #292Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Nope….if I remember I was wearing heels…..and he was at least my height….. So I’d say he’s at least 5’10 ? But he felt like 6feet and he oozed MAN…. There was a crackle….sizzle in the air while he was present…and then as he left…..the sizzle went with him 🙂
    He was very well dresses…..very classic man…old world…I think he wore that paperboy hat?…..and a coat …but very generic tailored Englishman …… Basically my dream type 🙂
    ……..what was interesting is I had seen his movies and liked him as an actor but no crush… was when I FELT him….in real life that went mad 😉

  293.  #293BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    #280 Renee

    “I don’t know how to continue to open my heart (and my body) to someone without falling in love with him.”

    I think this is why I am so scared of the whole dating scene again. I KNOW I get soooo into the man I lose myself and treat him like a “god” and my thoughts, dreams, actions all revolve around HIM. And I have to learn to NOT do this thing I do.

    I don’t know how to do these things either Renee, how do you NOT fall when you are opening your heart up……….I KNOW for me I cannot have sex with a man until I am in the exclusive committed relationship Rori talks about, because once I have slept with a man, my whole vibe moves onto another level that scares me…..

  294.  #294Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 1:53 pm


    RE: #280 – I have a message for you from Lucy! She agrees with you! 🙂

    NOTE: Our area is being slammed by heavy wind and rain, and her power is out. She is keeping up with the blog on her phone (and I thought I was obsessed with the blog! 🙂 LOL)! I love Lucy! <3

  295.  #295Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Renee – you okay? Did preemptive rejection feel like it applied?

    and everyone – you know the whole he married a crazy girl – who is the AGE of his oldest daughter….

    leads me to think that he either – did it to get back at them since they told him they’d accept ANYONE he wanted who wasn’t me, they may well have found her for him….


    and this I’ve always wondered….maybe responsible duty guys want the crazy psycho girls? Maybe I just wasn’t CRAZY enough for him? Many, many men who say they want a “good” woman really want the one that’s unpredicatable, passionately psychotic, dramatic and unable to build her own house.

    What is it with that?!!

    I almost think it’s a STAGE that all guys go through until they get burned…which is why I always wished he’d of had THAT girl before he met me. The good ones – maybe like J? – figure out that it may look like fun, but it sux???

  296.  #296BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    #256 Jacqueline

    Yes I did read the whole story. I as in ME MYSELF was triggered by the way your story made ME feel. And yes it brought out intense triggered anger in me.

    And I am not angry at YOU Jacqueline.

    I just have no sympathy, I’m sorry to say, for people who have affairs with married men (or women) and then complain when it all goes pear shaped.

    And this is the sentence that triggered me most of all:

    ” I still wonder how women can believe they own a man, refuse to grant him a divorce, relish the entitlement of being the “wife,” and disregard entirely his happiness.”

    And no your story isn’t mine, you are talking about an older man with grown up children. But it is still all about HIS happiness, that’s what got to me…..

  297.  #297Daria on September 30, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Jaqueline – Rori talks about that… in a way… if he’s with a woman who cheats… he’s attracted to women who cheat…

    if he’s with a woman who is clingy controlling demanding psycho and won’t grant him a divorce…
    then he’s attracted to women like that

    it’s his past patterns… like we have ours… that we babystep to dismantle

  298.  #298Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I refuse to grant a divorce…..I don’t believe in divorce….I believe in bullets 🙂

  299.  #299Daria on September 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    I feel sad when i read Mercedes saying “i don’t understand people who do”

    it feels cold like getting slapped with a wall

    i feel angry… i feel mistrustful… and judgemental

    i don’t want to be like that – the way i’m triggered to see her, cold and pretending i don’t understand something because i don’t like it or wouldn’t make that choice – acting like im better than…

    and i know i have done this often in the past… ha!

    yes indeed

    thank you mirror

    i Do understand how people make those choices… i don’t like it, and i dont’ want to make choices that feel bad…

    but understanding, i do.

    i feel angry

    also, she’s saying I don’t understand people who take the actions you have Jaqueline, but I’m not thinking of you, just generalizing around random people which include you Anyway

    so therefore i’m saying i don’t understand you, but not compassionately like i Want to understand you, but

    from an I’m better than postion, like i don’t want to understand you, fu9ck your position, i am so much better

    and maybe that’s not whats going on at all with Mercedes, that’s how im triggered to see it from that phrase I don’t understand…

    and that doesnt feel good… i don’t want to feel this way…

    mmmm…. i feel angry and slapped in the face reading “i don’t understand people like that”

    that seems like a lie, for … i feel judgemental of people who make these choices

  300.  #300Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Barb – doesn’t he have a right to a minute, a year of happiness? cuz he surely didn’t get even one (well in he went to college on a football scholarship so surely before the wife snagged him??? there had to have been girls girls girls?, but I’m thinking she snagged him very early on, and always made him feel “less than,” because she came from money – another interesting thing), IMO…but that is a very good point. And pear shaped, I am pear shaped…heee….I sometimes hear a lot of judgement in your words about looks – like you judge yourself on that, too? thanks for reading the story and explaining. Feels good.

    Daria – love it….good point, although this girl seemed pretty pathetic to me? ha! like I seemed to his wife? who told me pittyingly “you’re just a midlife crisis,” ….laughing at myself…and how crazy the world is. I’m so glad you’re here and you’re you!

    Nikita! I love MIRANDA LAMBERT….crazy ex girlfriend song…so a few months after it was “over,” I drove to his place and used an entire tube of red lipstick to write Love, crazy ex girlfriend on the wall….and it was great! MUCH better than ripping up the check he’d sent me which my bestfriend was on the phone screaming don’t do it!!! about….and a better alternative than driving my car through his garage door – I mean if he wanted crazy, I was going to try and go there. Which is when I figured out I could never be crazy enough no matter what – but it was a fine song and a very fun moment – he was highly amused and complimented, actually.

    Yep, guilt will make me crazy, but I love my car!!!…and the smell of bleach – aaaaah, feeling good 2 day for blondes!

    xo yall…

  301.  #301BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 2:20 pm


    1) A British expression used to indicate that something has gone horribly wrong with a person’s plans, most commonly in the phrase “It’s all gone pear shaped.” The origin is unclear, but one theory says that it is RAF slang relating to the difficulty of performing aerobatic loops, which were described as “pear shaped” if executed imperfectly.

    2) A term meaning “to go to hell in handbasket” or “when the shit hits the fan.” Reportedly of British or Cockney origin, from the Royal Air Force’s description of circular flight paths gone awry, or “pear-shaped.”

  302.  #302Brenda on September 30, 2010 at 2:20 pm


    Here is a message from Lucy… 🙂

    “I’m gonna show him what a lil girl’s made of – gunpowder and lead.” (miranda lambert)

  303.  #303Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Brenda, lol! Oh! Ok…..maybe I’ll you tube it….I have never heard of it…..
    I feel cool with renegotiating the terms of our marriage…but divorce? Nah….you said till death do us part…….oh well 🙂
    Looks like it you and me honey 😉

  304.  #304Renee on September 30, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Jaqueline — The preemptive strike thing did resonate with me. Thank you for sending me that link. I like the new blog design!

    Thank you, as well, for asking how I am. I am realizing today how effed up I am over this man and thinking I really need to find the path back to my bridge. I’ve been so busy thinking about, dreaming about and fretting about this relationship that I’m not getting crap done and this has to stop.

    I wish someone could just give me a dose of inner peace with the wave of a magic wand…I’m going to start by going back to the gym tomorrow…I haven’t been in over 2 weeks and that’s something I really need to do for my body and my spirit.

    I’m also feeling off track because I’m self-employed and I haven’t been applying myself lately and I need to reverse my cranial-rectal inversion and get cracking at work!

  305.  #305Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Barb – thanks! I wondered about that after I posted….cuz I know sometimes I cannot even understand Lynne’s Australian english!!

    Have a good one!


  306.  #306Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Gunpowder and lead was playing when I was going to run my car into the garage!!! Watch out for that song, girls!!! It’ll make you go crazy on him….

  307.  #307Daria on September 30, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    now i feel both curious and sad… what is my message…

    this is about me, because it always is…

    i love all of me

    i intend to feel good and heal this

  308.  #308Renee on September 30, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Daria — I remember the part where Rori talks about men who’ve been cheated on are drawn to the type of women who cheat and it really resonated with me because I’ve seen it w/several men in the past few years. I actually remember saying that to an old boyfriend a couple of years ago…his ex-wife and serious ex-gf had cheated on him and I remarked that perhaps he was simply more drawn to the type of woman who would cheat. He dismissed it, of course, but I remember that my assurances of my ability to remain faithful weren’t met with the welcome I thought they’d be…it was like he both doubted that was true (insecure about my feelings for him, though he actually had reason to be, lol) and it was like I removed a major draw by agreeing not to see other men fairly easily. I needed to remember that…

  309.  #309Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Renee – ummmm, yes! that’s what I was thinking, this guy and his below you but then you lower your standards and then he f**ks with your head how can he do that when he’s clearly below you??? thing – I’ve been there. And it felt like you’d gone completely into your head and become obsessing about it. I’ve circled it around forever, and found no answer.

    I HIGHLY encourage you and love you! to yep, forgettaboughtit – completely, like stick him and his issues on the back of your horse and be completely back in the moment for YOU; and for the fab. doctor that I hope IS fab, and not like patronizing or bossy!!! so he can give blondie a run for his money!!!

    Hang in there and thanks!!!

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE my new blog design too, esp. that shade of GREEN. I love colors, and that’s the color my drapes are, too….it’s the BEST format I’ve found, and I’m really loving it – ha! I just sit and look at it happily…omgosh…

    D – love your feelings, I kind of felt that too and emailed her – I think logically I would be included in the comment, but for her, I’m not. So, that’s cool, and it was nice of her to come comment.

    ‘kay, gotta go dry my oh so fly fine spanking sparkly HAIR now…

  310.  #310Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 2:53 pm


    I do not relate to that song. I get it…I really do…but….no…I refuse to give a man and a woman I don’t know that kind of power over my impulse control. I refuse to act out in that way. To me, that’s the difference between dating and marriage. The craziest thing I might do is shag his boss…or best friend….but ONLY if I always wanted to and needed a reason 🙂
    ….as in yay! All bets are off now I think I’ll rebound with ….him!!! I can’t imagine doing that because I don’t like burning bridges but…..if I felt like it I’d do it….because I don’t owe loyalty to him….
    This is a great example of the girlfriend trap…..(Miranda lambert’s song) …. This is a sign of over investment in a man without a real commitment….. Now if this was….I’m the crazy wife…..wielding a gun in a bar, after catching her husband….well…..that’s an insanity plea IMO 😉
    And I don’t care who that girl is!……for all I know her uncle molested her and she’s just stuck in a toxic pattern right now…..that girl has her own STUFF

  311.  #311Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    which girl? Miranda Lambert – cuz I totally think someone hit her, she sings it with too much heart. But she’s from Texas, and I do relate…lol…

    hugs everyone!

  312.  #312tinque on September 30, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Nikita – No not always. Libra men are NOT always girly men. K is a Libra, just had his birthday last Saturday, and he’s as masculine energy as they come. He’s a math geek, electrical engineer, AND he does ballet with me, partners me in pas de deux, AND he acted for several years.
    He exerts his masculinity in a clear yet understated way, meaning he has no need for bravado of any kind. He is deeply affectionate and tender with me yet very much the man in our relationship.

  313.  #313tinque on September 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    “The prayer about breaking my heart would really have bothered me — like a husband telling me that he’s been praying that he won’t cheat on me. I don’t know. I would be interested in Tinque’s perspective as a happily permanently committed lady (aka married but not)”

    Yes Lucy that prayer bothered me too. Why would anyone say this let alone think it? Ghosts? Skeletons?
    People hurt each other. It’s inevitable. BUT the intention is what matters or un-intention.
    K and are are both fiercely monogamous, and this is just not even a question between us. I think it may have been for awhile in his mind because he was cheated on by the two women prior to me (though his definition of cheating is more stringent than some.) And I really don’t believe he was attracted to the cheating sort, for all he has ever wanted was a me. He had his work to do as did I, and when we both reached somewhere, where we were truly ready for each other, only then were we brought back together.
    So neither one of us intends to hurt the other, but it happens, not seriously, yet I am very sensitive, so it probably happens to me more, BUT I’m aware of my sensitivities, and I know he;’s not meaning to do so, but men say things differently than we sometimes. It comes off badly to us but means little as in he means no harm. Men will tend to more easily blow things off that maybe come out wrong as a nothing.
    Back to Renee.
    That was a strange thing to say. I wouldn’t write him off for it though. People say weird things, especially in the early stages of a relationship.
    My suggestion would be to let it go for now.

  314.  #314Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 3:41 pm


    Libra is ruled by Venus….. I stand by my girlyman- I have slept with a man born on K’s bday and yes he rocked my world…..but….

    K could very well have Aries rising…..which would alter his appearance……his Venus and mars could be “traditional” signs… him all sorts of uber masculine traits….
    He could have a moon in Capricorn! Anything…but….libra men…..with many planets in libra are going to have a strong Venus energy…..and delicate features. I’m not implying they are gay or less than in any way…..I dated a very mature almost crusty silver fox who was a libra…..but in bed….he wanted to be smacked around 😉 I never bedded him…..because I’m a bottom…

  315.  #315lm on September 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    tinque 304:

    i agree about people saying weird things in the early stages of a relationship. i said some super-weird things when i used to try to act like i didn’t really like a guy and had just started dating him. i was sort of cute back then. ha.

  316.  #316lm on September 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    i mean i DID really like a guy

  317.  #317Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Libra is also a leader….it’s a cardinal sign….and…..I cannot tell you how often I see an Aries woman with a libra man…..and I bet….at least with my friends….the Aries is in charge

  318.  #318tinque on September 30, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Yes Nikita his moon is in Capricorn. I don’t remember his rising.
    Bottom, top, sideways, I like it all.

  319.  #319tinque on September 30, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Well I am the Aries, but I’m not really in charge. He is mostly, BUT he always consults me. We usually agree, so this is helpful. I have many air planets which is maybe why the fire is not so strong in all areas.

  320.  #320Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 4:02 pm


    I think if you didn’t like it all….then you just wouldn’t be you 😉
    They are good lovers……I’d say….they can play the body as though it were a violin……

  321.  #321Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Libra men make great pimps…

    whats this about moon in Capricorn? whta does that do?

  322.  #322Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Yes, Renee, it really has been that long since my glorious date with WH. 🙁

    I am going to make a bonfire like Colin and Mary did in The Secret Garden, and dance around it, chanting, “Oh Great Magic, listen to me, bring Winker-Hottie here, bring him to me, OH GREAT MAGIC, LISTEN TO ME, BRING WINKER-HOTTIE HERE, SET HIS SPIRIT FREE!!! OH! GREAT! MA! GIC! LIST! EN! TO ME…..”

    And then the magic will swirl through the air and find him out on the lonely moors and whisper to him that the love of his life is in the garden and that he must go to her and he will be healed and loved forever……

  323.  #323Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Oooh, Tinque, K sounds like my kind of man! (Don’t worry, I won’t even TRY to steal him away — not that it would even be possible. 🙂 )

  324.  #324Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Back to astrology, are we? Who can tell me about a gemini man with a gemini woman? Or did I already get that question answered and I forgot (because of my low estrogen!!)?

  325.  #325BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    I am off to work now Sirens, just throwing a few logs on Lucy’s bonfire before I do 😀

    I just gave G my phone number (paid dating site) so he can set up the date for tomorrow……gulp………I am SO SO nervous about acting in a way I have never done before, maybe I should think of myself as an actress in a movie and play my part?? Does that seem a fake thing to do??

  326.  #326Nikita on September 30, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Lucy……….I’m hoooooooooommmmmme 😉

    Um….well, a Gemini man could work for you….but I have not had one stick to me….oh wait…one was in hot pursuit but I dodged him… 🙁

    But there was another one that I fell hard for and then 3weeks later; poof! Glad I didn’t sleep with him…..but maybe that’s why he went poof 🙂 lol!!

    Try it! Can two people go in 4 directions at once and end up in the same place???

  327.  #327Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Aw, Barb, thanks for the log! I feel touched! <3 (that is a HEART btw lol!)

    I don't know about playing a part…. Maybe just try to find the part inside YOU that really IS that way, and be YOU in a new way….

  328.  #328Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Barb – oh yes, i often imagine myself as a Goddess… alll;lll that is part of us that we can imagine… so any actress, etc… sure.. experiment with tthat part of you

  329.  #329Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Oops. Guess what I just remembered? My ex-h is a gemini. Hehe. We must have completely different moons and whatnot because we are complete opposites….except that we are both kinda feminine energy, hehe.

    WH is a gemini and doesn’t seem to have much in common with my ex-h except that they both have some facial hair.

  330.  #330Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Good idea, Nikita: “Try it!”

    Just gotta get this bonfire going a lil bigger and hotter and more powerful and magical……

    and then WH and I will try it.


  331.  #331Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Hehe, Doc just asked me what I do for “hobby fun” these days… I answered, “I write on a secret blog for women. :)”

  332.  #332Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Now I’m getting that “cheating on WH feeling” again. What is UP with that???

  333.  #333Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:43 pm


    Oshun is now married to Chango. Her first husband was Orunmila.

    Oshun was the most breathtaking, absolutely beautiful maiden in the region when she was a young girl. Hundreds of suitors would come seeking to marry her. But, the result would always be the same.

    “marry me,” gasped or shouted, or whispered the suitor.

    And Oshun would turn her back and walk away from the young man. Their last sight of Oshun would be her exquisite hips swinging back and forth, disappearing into her mother’s house.

    More and more suitors showed up at Oshun’s house. They brought mountains of gifts. Their horses trampled the garden. Finally, after seeing her rose bushes eaten by a camel, Oshun’s mother rushed out of the house shouting, “That’s enough!”

    The serenaders stopped playing in mid chord. The duelists dropped their swords.

    “You get out of my garden right now!” shouted Oshun’s mother, “and don’t come this way again.”

    A brave suitor spoke up. “We’re in love with your daughter.”

    “That’s right,” said another. “We’re here to win her hand.”

    “You’re here making my life miserable,” grumbled Oshun’s mother. However, she realized that they were right in wooing her daughter, since she was the greatest beauty in the region.

    “You’re in the right,” she told the surprised suitor. “But,” she added, raising her voice to be heard by the crowd of suitors. “This madness has got to stop.”

    “But, we want to marry your daughter,” they wailed.

    “Quiet!” shouted Oshun’s mother. “I have determined a fair way for all of you to compete for my daughter’s hand without tearing around in my flowers and vegetables.”

    The crowd settled down.

    “My daughter’s name is secret. Only I know it. The one who finds out what her name is will have proven that he has the cunning to win my daughter’s hand in marriage. His skill will melt my daughter’s heart and will win my approval. He will be her husband.”

    Orunmila was in the crowd of suitors. He is the god of oracles and can see the future.

    “This should be easy,” he said to himself, concentrating.

    But, no matter what he did or how many times he threw the coconuts or rattled the cowrie shells, Orunmila was unable to find out the name of the most beautiful girl in the region.

    Orunmila’s other attribute is wisdom. He knew when to call for help. He went out in search of Elegua and found the trickster Orisha. Even though he was only Orunmila’s porter, Elegua had taught him all the sciences and secrets of divination.

    “Elegua, old friend, you must help me,” cried Orunmila, seizing Elegua by the shoulders.

    “Do you need money?” asked Elegua.

    “I’m in love and I need your help,” said Orunmila.

    “Even worse,” said Elegua.

    “Please help me find the name of the most beautiful girl in the region,” pleaded Orunmila. “She has won the hearts of all the men, but I want her only for myself. I want her for my wife.”

    “And what do you need me for?” asked Elegua.

    “Only you, Elegua, who is such a wily trickster can find out the secret of her name.”

    Elegua smiled modestly. “I’ll try,” he said.

    He went directly to Oshun’s mother’s house. He stayed there for days. Some days, he disguised himself as an old man. Other days, he maintained his surveillance in the aspect of a small child. He spent days acting the fool in the local markets, hoping that a loose word would reveal the secret. Or, he pretended to be asleep in Oshun’s doorway, the better to hear what went on inside.

    Patience always has its rewards. After many days of patient waiting, Elegua, dozing in the doorway, heard an argument inside.

    Oshun’s mother, who was always very careful never to say her daughter’s name aloud, was very angry. Oshun had knocked over a fresh pot of Omiero while trying out a new and exciting dance step.

    “Oshun, look what you’ve done!” shouted the mother.

    Elegua heard. “Oshun, Oshun,” he said to himself, “That Oshun is going to cost you a daughter, dear lady. That Oshun will turn a daughter into a wife.”

    Elegua didn’t waste any time in getting back to Orunmila’s house.

    “Well?” asked Orunmila anxiously.

    “This has not been easy,” said Elegua.

    “What have you found out?”

    “I had to spend weeks in the most uncomfortable positions,” said Elegua.

    “What is her name?”

    “Weeks and weeks I spent wearing itchy beards and a small boy’s body,” said Elegua. “I’m all cramped.

    “Please?” pleaded Orunmila.

    “Her name is Oshun.”

    Orunmila ran to Oshun’s house. He knocked on the door. she opened it.

    “You are going to be my wife because now I know your name,” he told her.

    “What is this? What is this?” asked the mother, appearing behind Oshun.

    “Your name is Oshun,” said Orunmila, pointing his finger at her. “And now you are mine.”

    The two of them were married and were happy for some time but…

    Men kept making offers and improper advances to Oshun, even now that she was a married woman. She paid no attention to any of them.

    One day, at a party, she glanced at the drummer, who was able to pull heavenly rhythms out of his instrument. Oshun was smitten. She was transfixed by love. She kept looking at the handsome drummer and saying to herself, “He will be mine.”

    The miraculous drummer was none other than Chango.

    “Chango, do you see her?” asked the other Orishas at the party. “Oshun, the most beautiful of all is trying to flirt with you.”

    “So?” asked Chango, concentrating on a specially difficult passage.

    “Make love to her,” said the Orishas. “She is beautiful and wants you.”

    Chango smiled at his friends and replied, “I have more women than I know what to do with. They throw themselves at me.”

    “Braggart,” thought the other Orishas.

    “Besides,” said Chango, counterpointing his decision with the beat of the drums. “I’m not ready for any more complications right now.”

    That was what Chango said, but, who can resist Oshun’s enchantments? Who can say no to her grace and her flirtatious ways? Who can let her walk away after seeing her hips swaying? Who can refuse the invitation of her moist fleshly lips?

    Chango, the great womanizer, the great conqueror could not resist. He became interested in her. Oshun, for her part, became colder as Chango grew warmer. She wanted to teach him a lesson for having slighted her on their first meeting.

    It became too much for Chango. He waited for Orunmila to leave his house one day, went to the door and knocked. When Oshun answered, Chango burst in.

    “If you don’t give me your love,” said Chango, grabbing her arms, “I’ll go off to war and never return.”

    Oshun’s heart melted. “Don’t go,” she said. “I’ll love you forever.”

    “Forever?” asked Chango, a little taken aback.

    “I’ll be with you all your life,” said Chango. “I’ll be your wife.”

    On that day, she left Orunmila’s house and went to live with Chango. Their love produced the Ibeyi.

  334.  #334Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:47 pm


    Obakoso, in Yoruba, means “the king that did not hang himself.” This is the story of how Chango came by that name.

    Chango has always been a womanizer. Back in the days when he was a king in Africa, he had two wives. He ruled his women hard and he ruled his kingdom hard, for his temper had not mellowed yet with age.

    “You are always yelling and stomping in this house,” said Wife Number One.

    “That’s right,” said Wife Number Two, “You never have a kind word for anyone.”

    “All you care about is your stomach,” said Wife Number One.

    “And you don’t care about us, ” said Wife Number Two.

    “You never buy us presents,” said Wife Number One.

    “You never take us anywhere,” said Wife Number Two.

    “You don’t love us,” wailed both wives in unison.

    “I don’t stomp around the house,” shouted Chango, stomping around the house. “I was having a pleasant morning, thinking about how nice it would be to have a little wild duck and you two have ruined it.”

    “Do you hear that?” said Wife Number One to Wife Number Two. “I told you all he cared about was his stomach.”

    “That’s it!” shouted Chango. “I’m getting on my horse and riding into the forest. At least no one will nag me there.”

    “How long are you going to be gone?” asked Wife Number One.

    “I’ll be back when I’m good and ready. Don’t bother looking for me or coming after me,” snarled Chango.

    “As if we would,” sniffed Wife Number Two.

    Chango stormed off through the palace, slamming doors and kicking cats. No one paid him any attention, since this was his normal way of walking through the castle. All his subjects were used to Chango’s tantrums.

    No one waved as Chango rode off into the forest.

    “He’s in one of his moods,” said the groom to a kitchen maid. “He’ll be back in a little while.” He rubbed the top of his head. “I hope he comes back in a better mood and does not hit me again.”

    A week passed and Chango had not come back.

    “He’s with a new woman,” some said.

    “He is on adventure,” said others.

    “He’s drunk somewhere,” said Wife Number One.

    A month passed. Chango’s wives would burst out crying without reason. His subjects missed the noise of the slamming doors and the screeching cats.

    “Where can he be?” They asked.

    “he’s been gone way too long,” said others.

    “We have to go and look for him,” said Wife Number Two. “I can’t stand this any longer.”

    A well organized search party was sent out into the forest. It returned a week later.

    “Well?” asked Wife Number One.

    “Nothing,” said the captain of the search party.

    Rumors began to fly in the palace.

    “Chango went into the forest and hung himself because he was ashamed of what a bad king he was,” said some people.

    “He tied a rope around his neck and jumped off the top of a large Banyan tree because his mistress abandoned him,” said others.

    The rumors and the search parties kept coming and going. Chango was not to be found. It had been six months since he had ridden off into the forest.

    A new massive search was organized. Everyone in the palace, from the youngest child to the oldest woman, set out into the forest. They looked under every stone. They climbed every tree. Slowly, they made their way into the center of the forest.

    Hundreds of voices cried out, “Chango! Where are you Chango?” And the echo came back, “Chango.”

    Women beat their breasts and smeared their bodies with ashes. “Where are you, Chango?” they shouted. “Tell us if you have hung yourself.”

    Deep in the deepest part of the forest, up on top of the tallest and oldest banyan tree, Chango woke up from a nap. He heard the hundreds of voices that had awakened him. “Chango, Chango. Where are you, Chango?”

    Chango was furious. He hated noise and he specially hated it when it woke him up from a nap.

    “What is that racket?” he shouted. “Who are all you people?”

    Then, he saw that it was hundreds of his warriors and thousands of his subjects beating the bushes, scaring the animals and destroying the peace and quiet of the forest.

    Chango’s got angrier, as most people do when they are rudely awakened from a nap. He stood up on the topmost branch of the banyan tree and roared, “I am here! I did not hang myself and I will never hang myself.”

    The forest was silent. A thousand heads looked up to Chango, standing proudly on top of the banyan tree.

    “Come down, Chango, come down!” shouted his subjects.

    “Quiet,” yelled Chango. He waited for all the murmuring and muttering and crying to die out. “I’m not coming down,” he said. “If I come down, if I go back to the palace, my wives,” he pointed a stiff and slightly dirty finger at them, ” Who are now friends, crying over my loss, will start fighting with each other again. What’s worse, they’ll start fighting with me again.”

    “No, we won’t,” shouted Wife Number One.

    “You get yourself right down here,” said Wife Number Two.

    “Come down, Chango. Come down.” shouted all his subjects.

    Chango sat on the branch and thought about what he should do. He thought and thought until all the shouting had died down again.

    “Are you coming down now?” asked Wife Number One. “It’s almost time for dinner,” said Wife Number Two.

    Chango came to a decision. He stood on the branch atop the banyan tree. He raised his arms and shouted, “My people!”

    “Come down, Chango.” they all cried.

    “Quiet!” shouted Chango. I’ve come to the conclusion that it is just too much of a bother and a problem and a headache to try to govern all of you.”

    “Are you calling us a problem?” shrieked Wife Number One.

    “Are you saying we’re a headache?” screamed Wife Number Two.

    “From now on,” said Chango, as he dodged a couple of well aimed rocks thrown by his wives, “I will still rule you, but I will rule you from far away.” Another rock whizzed by his head. “From very far away. I’m going to rule you from the sky.”

    Ignoring the shouts and tears of his subjects and the curses and stones from his wives, Chango grabbed a thick chain that led from the top of the banyan tree to the sky. He pulled himself up link by link. When he paused for breath and looked down, his subjects were tiny. He could not distinguish his wives. He looked up. The chain disappeared into the blue sky.

    He climbed and he climbed and he climbed until he reached the sky. There, he stayed.

    He is now an Orisha among the Orishas.

  335.  #335Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm


    Many years ago, Chango was embroiled in one of his unending wars. He had fought for many days and killed many of his enemies, but, more came than he could kill. He found himself surrounded by his enemies in the middle of the forest.

    “Enchile,” he shouted, but his famous magical horse had become lost during the fighting. Chango was afraid to yell again. He might be found. He heard his enemies beating the bushes and shaking the trees to find him. If they did, they would kill him.

    Without Echinle, Chango had to scurry through gullies and cover himself in river mud to hide from his enemies. Days passed. His implacable enemies did not rest. They did not eat. Chango, tired and hurt, had to keep on running without sleep and without food.

    He ran and he ran until he reached the place where Oya lived. It was very deep in the woods. Very few people there knew that Oya was Chango’s wife.

    Chango came to Oya’s house and pounded on the door. She opened it and saw Chango bruised, cut and panting.

    “What has happened to you?” cried Oya.

    “Oya, they have me surrounded,” panted Chango. “They want to hang me from a tree.”

    “Come in, quick.” said Oya, hustling Chango into her house.

    “My lightning is not effective against my enemies today,” He told Oya.

    “That’s because you lack the courage to fight,” she scolded. Oya gave him water and a bite to eat.

    “It’s not courage I lack,” said Chango. “I’m very tired.”

    “What do you want from me?” asked Oya.

    “If I could escape my enemies’ deadly circle, I could rest and sleep.” said Chango. “I would recover my strength and destroy my enemies.”

    “Why is it that you only come to see me when you need help?” asked Oya.

    In those ancient times, Chango was used to fighting by himself, but he swallowed his pride.

    “Help me, Oya.”

    Oya thought for a moment and then turned to her husband.

    “When night falls,” she said. “You will put on one of my dresses. The disguise will let you escape.”

    “They will still recognize my face,” said Chango.

    “I will cut off my hair and put it on your head. That will complete the disguise.” said Oya. “I will cut off my hair to save my king’s life.”

    They waited until night. Oya lit no fire. She was afraid that the smoke from her chimney would be noticed by Chango’s enemies and draw them to the house. When the sun had gone down, but before the moon had risen, Oya cut off her beautiful hair and pinned it to Chango’s head. Chango did not know what to do with woman’s hair. It fell across his eyes. It tangled in his ears. Oya had him sit down and wove the hair into two long braids.

    “Here’s a dress,” she said. “Put it on quickly, before the moon comes up.”

    Chango managed to tangle himself up in Oya’s dress. “Stand still,” she said. “Just stand still and let me dress you.”

    Finally, Chango was dressed as a passable imitation of Oya. She went to the door and peered out.

    “Hurry,” she said. “There’s no one around.”

    Chango stepped outside, imitating Oya’s dignified walk. He walked until he reached the forest and came across the line of searching men. He greeted his enemies with an imperious tilt of his head and crossed their line. He did not speak to them because his voice is very deep. It would have given him away.

    This is the way Chango was able to escape his enemies’ trap.

    Once he was far away from the forest, he made camp. He rested and slept and ate and regained his strength and his will to fight.

    Echinle managed to find his way back to his master. Chango fed him and groomed him.

    A few days later, rested and healed, Chango mounted Echinle.

    “It is time to kill,” said Chango to his horse, and galloped off to find his enemies.

    it was dawn when he reached his enemies’ camp. He came rushing at them. His fury was terrible to behold. Lightning flashed from his hands. He shouted wild warrior cries. He was still dressed as a woman.

    “Oya has turned into Chango,” his enemies shouted when they saw the screaming apparition bearing down upon them, long hair flying and a gown flapping in the wind. They panicked.

    Behind them, Oya came striding out of her house, fully armed, and began hacking right and left with her ax. Her short hair bristled and shot out electric sparks.

    “If Oya helps Chango, there is victory,” she shouted, cutting off arms and legs.

    Chango and Oya were victorious. Since that battle, Oya has been Chango’s inseparable companion in war. With Chango’s thunder and Oya’s storms, they are invincible and remain so to this day.

  336.  #336Daria on September 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm


    Chango first saw the light of day thanks to Obatala (in a female aspect). However, Obatala soon became indignant with her son’s pranks and threw him out of her house. Yemaya took pity on the young Orisha and raised Chango as if he were her own child.

    Chango grew up and left home to find his fortune. Chango forgot the details of his upbringing. He had no past. He wandered the world without roots and without goals. Many years passed and many women crossed his path. He had many amorous adventures. So many, that he forgot, in time, Yemaya’s face.

    Time passed. Chango kept chasing women, fighting and going to parties. It was at one of these parties where Chango met Yemaya again. He was drumming and singing. The people were dancing. When he looked up, he saw Yemaya.

    He immediately felt a very strong attraction towards her. His heart opened and he felt an intense tenderness wash over him. He did not remember feeling like that before, so, he confused it with passion and sexual attraction. He was wrong. What he felt was the love of a son for his mother, his second mother, the woman who had brought him up.

    He stopped playing the drums, stood up and sidled up to Yemaya.

    “Have I met you somewhere before?” he asked.

    Yemaya turned her back on him for an answer.

    “We could go off and be alone,” said Chango. “Just you and I.”

    His lips brushed her shoulder. She shrugged him off.

    Yemaya knew the dissolute life that Chango had been leading. She knew he was a drinker, a brawler and a womanizer. When he attempted to seduce her, his own mother, she decided to teach him a lesson.

    “I’m going to teach him respect for women,” she said to herself. “I’m also going to teach him a little humility.” She turned to Chango. “What did you have in mind?”

    Chango jumped at the opening. “Let’s go to your house and keep this party going. But, more privately.” He did not want to go to his house, since his wives would not exactly approve of a conquest under their own roof.

    “Why, I think that’s a wonderful idea,” purred Yemaya, leading him on. “Come with me.”

    She walked through the crowd. Chango was close behind.

    “What an easy conquest,” he said to himself. ” What a virile man am I.”

    They walked through the sleeping town until they came to the seashore. Yemaya went to a small boat tied to a rock. She got in the boat.

    “Please undo the lines,” she told Chango.

    “But, where is your house?” asked Chango. “I thought that you wanted to have a little party.”

    “My house is over there,” said Yemaya, pointing towards the dark line of the horizon. “Come with me.”

    She stretched out her hand to Chango, who gingerly climbed into the boat. He was rapidly losing his enthusiasm for this romantic adventure. He was afraid of boats and did not like the water because he could not swim. But, it was too late to change his mind. He would appear frightened. He was, but he would admit it to any man, let alone a woman.

    Chango tightened his grip on the gunwale as the little boat bobbed over the breakers and headed out to sea. The farther out they went, the more nervous Chango became. The little boat was out of sight of land.

    “That’s enough,” said Chango.

    “Isn’t the sky lovely?” said Yemaya.

    “I said, that’s enough,” growled Chango, striking the oars from her hands. “Who are you who has the strength to send this boat flying over the waves?”

    Yemaya did not answer. She sat in the boat calmly, her hands crossed on her lap.

    “Who are you who can live out in the middle of the ocean?” demanded Chango.

    Instead of answering him, Yemaya dove over the side and swam straight down to the bottom of the sea.

    Chango was petrified. He had no idea how to handle a boat. He didn’t know what to do. Clumsily, he picked up an oar, but got it tangled in the lines coiled in the bottom of the boat.

    While Chango struggled, Yemaya sent a gigantic wave towards him. It was a wave taller than a mountain. When he saw the wave coming, Chango dropped the oars and covered his head with his hands.

    “I can triumph over men,” he muttered, curled up in the bottom of the boat. “I can triumph over women. But I can’t triumph over this wave.” He took a peek over the side. A blue wall of water was bearing down upon him. He tried to make himself small. He tried to make himself disappear.

    The giant wave came crashing down on him. It washed him off the boat and sent him tumbling and bubbling to the bottom of the sea. It was quiet and blue. Chango was afraid.

    He fought his way back to the surface and felt immensely grateful to Olodumare when he was able to pull in a lung full of air. The boat was floating right next to him. He scrambled into it. He did not sink and drown.

    Yemaya came gliding on the waves, her feet barely touching the water.

    “I think you are going to have to save me,” said Chango through chattering teeth.

    “I will save you upon one condition.” said Yemaya. “Name your condition.”

    “You must respect your mother,” said Yemaya.

    “My mother!” blustered Chango. “My mother abandoned me when I was a baby.”

    At that instant, Obatala, Chango’s mother, who had been magically aware of the lesson being given to her son by Yemaya, appeared in the boat.

    “You have to respect Yemaya,” said Obatala. “She is your mother.”

    “You are my mother,” he yelled. “You abandoned me when I was a child. You kicked me out of your house.”

    “I brought you into the world,” said Obatala. “But it was up to another to bring you up.”

    “You forget women too easily, Chango,” said Yemaya. “You have hated your mother, but you have forgotten your second mother.”

    “You have forgotten that she is your mother, as well as I,” said Obatala. “I brought you into this world and she raised you.”

    “You have two mothers, Chango.” said Yemaya. “you have two mothers in a world where many people have none.”

    A stiff breeze sprang up and washed Chango clean of the hatred he had carried for many years.

    “I’m sorry,” he said. “I’m sorry I hated you, Obatala. I’m sorry I forgot you, Yemaya.” He sighed. “It is indeed wonderful to have two mothers.”

    From that time on, he began to respect women more. But, he is still a womanizer.

  337.  #337tinque on September 30, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Sorry Lucy, K is totally smitten. Well actually I lie. I’m not sorry at all. 🙂

  338.  #338Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Hehe, Tinque, that’s why I said it wasn’t possible for me to steal him away — he loves yooooooooooooou. 🙂

  339.  #339nikita on September 30, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    cheating on WH is just the man trying to hold you down! lol…. jk… maybe you like the thought of certain things a little more than the reality of it….like; loving the idea of someone more than actual someone(relationship) the mind can do all sorts of things to meet our needs including keeping us hung up on something in order to prevent us from forward with what we “say” we want….or claim to desire….like…being in a safe space or comfort zone to avoid intimacy…..I’m not implying that you are doing these things….but reflecting on some tricks i used to play with myself….back in my committment phobia days that I insisted was somebody else’s fault…lol!!!

  340.  #340Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Thanks for talking to me, Nikita, not much action on siren island at the moment….kinda lonely….

    I really do think I’m ready for the real thing. He just feels right to me — like he’s the one I want — the one who I am meant to be with — the one who I can grow with — the one whose flaws I can accept and really love him —

    I know that probably sounds crazy, but I’m saying it anyway at the risk of looking like a fool.

  341.  #341nikita on September 30, 2010 at 5:49 pm


    Maybe…..but in the meantime…you are single. Now, are you ready to mingle?

  342.  #342Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Well, I have a date with Doc on Tuesday.

    But I have turned down about 20 dates with different men in the past two months.

    I don’t want to mingle. I don’t like mingling. I have been mingling for too long and I feel tired of it.

  343.  #343Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    I think I might feel kinda angry.

  344.  #344tinque on September 30, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    oh and Nikita, you are so right about the violin thing. hehe

  345.  #345nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    good 🙂 i love your angry feelings, Lucy.

    I have a good feeling about the Dr. I might be wrong but I like him so far. I like that acting probably means a self realization thing for him and he is going with it…instead of pouting and playing dead 🙂 I love it when people push for a dream…or a passion….maybe you two could run through a streetcar named desire… can be stella and he can be stanley…. lol….the scene would of course depend on attracted you are to him……

  346.  #346nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:06 pm


    sigh, I know I’m right……and that makes me feel a little angry 😉

  347.  #347Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    I kinda have a good feeling about the doctor too. And that kinda bothers me. It feels like a fun trail to go down for awhile, but that eventually I will have to turn around and come back to the spot I am in right now. I don’t want any more fun diversions. I want the real deal, the whole shebang.

    And I want some juice. I am thirsty for juice but we don’t have any.

  348.  #348Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    I feel angry.

  349.  #349Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    I feel frustrated and lonely.

    I feel stumped about what to write for my son’s yearbook thingy and it is due tomorrow! And I have to drive my daughter to the hospital in another city tomorrow, so I won’t have time tomorrow to work on it. It’s now or never. It can’t be never. It’s my baby boy.

  350.  #350Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    I feel sad and mopey.

    Mostly angry.

    And kinda lightheaded. My head is getting the elevator-feeling.

    I feel amused at the little dialogue between Nikita and Jason on the other thread.

  351.  #351Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    I feel like I am going to explode with all the men I have let into my head and heart over the past year. I feel slutty. I don’t want to feel slutty. I don’t like the way that feels.

    I want to feel wifely.

    I know that sounds awful to some people, but to me it sounds and feels lovely.

  352.  #352Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    I want to be the wife goddess.

  353.  #353nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    What yearbook thingy?

  354.  #354nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I have juice…….I am going to get some……

  355.  #355Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    He’s a senior, so I have to write a sweet little note to go with his baby picture in the back of the yearbook.

  356.  #356Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    I think I have some canned pineapple. Maybe I should open it and drink the juice.

  357.  #357Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    I am going to feel my angry feelings while I go put on my nightie.

  358.  #358Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    But before I do . . . note to Chicken Man: WHO THE H*LL CARES?????????

  359.  #359Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    He is the most boring man I have never met! I’m sorry, but it’s true.

  360.  #360nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    ooooh…..a feeling message challenge 🙂

  361.  #361nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    chicken man?

    I drink the juice ….and just leave the fruit 🙂

  362.  #362Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Chicken Man ….he’s the guy who is in retail that I mentioned earlier today…. very feminine energy….. argh!!!! He has been emailing and texting me for many moons now.

  363.  #363Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    I think we have apples. Maybe I will eat an apple.

  364.  #364Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    How can I compose a sincere loving message to my son when I am feeling so effin angry?????

  365.  #365nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    oh yes …I have been eating apples when I’m thirsty and I feel very satisfied after.

  366.  #366Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Lucy is now eating an apple and hoping it doesn’t get her thrown out of the garden.

  367.  #367Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    hehe sounds like a facebook status update.

  368.  #368Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    where is everyone else? oh yeah, some of them are with their MEN.

  369.  #369Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    i think i scared doc away with my last email. we were emailing back and forth tonight and he stopped.

  370.  #370nikita on September 30, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    I always knew one day, somehow, my baby would grow into a man.Though it all feels too soon for a mom to admit that her baby is already a young man….I feel proud of him. I feel delighted to see you realize your potential and I accept that even as I still see you as a fresh addition to this world, you are your own man and I respect who you are and are becoming…..or something like that 🙂

  371.  #371nikita on September 30, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    So…..I just got off the phone with an old beau


  372.  #372oops! on September 30, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Hi Ladies,

    I can totally relate to that sentence that Brenda didn’t like:
    ” I still wonder how women can believe they own a man, refuse to grant him a divorce, relish the entitlement of being the “wife,” and disregard entirely his happiness.”

    I relate to what Jacqueline is saying, cause I know several men who pursue women outside of their marriage because they “don’t love” their wives. The wives use all forms of manipulation to keep their men, but they are never actually able to inspire happiness or willingness in their men. I feel a little annoyed with the men cause I perceive them as weak. But I feel some sympathy for the men. The men seem to be staying with the wives because, while they don’t love them enough to function as loving husbands, but they don’t hate their wives enough to outright leave them. They act out (like cheating) hoping the wives will leave them, but the wives won’t. If I were the men, I would feel like I was in prison.

  373.  #373Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    I did it! Yay! I wrote the yearbook thingy. Thanks for your encouraging, peaceful presence, Nikita. <3

  374.  #374Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Old beau…?

  375.  #375nikita on September 30, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    yay!!! that was fast 🙂

  376.  #376Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    The fastness was an illusion…. I’ve been pondering it pretty much all day, and it finally came together. It really did help to have your compassionate presence. 🙂

  377.  #377Alonka on September 30, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Hi Everyone,

    I’m new to this site and I left a comment here last night. It says ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.’ What does it mean? Can you see my writing? I’m #204 on this page. Does Rori comes here? Hope she will read my story and comment back:)

  378.  #378Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    I am going to bed now but will probably read blog emails on my phone (IF there is any action!) . . . but alas i will not be able to post, except maybe on the newest thread…. The longer ones make my phone run out of memory.


  379.  #379nikita on September 30, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    goodnight 🙂

  380.  #380Rori Raye on October 1, 2010 at 12:11 am

    Meemee, Welcome – and you are struggling with addiction. And you are punishing yourself tremendously –so sorry – please – can you let up on yourself? Love yourself no matter what? This is where I want you to go, and yet – it’s not an easy fix with just a few words from me. Please find a CODA group in your area, and if there is none – try AA and let them know your addiction is to men who cause you pain. Love, Rori

  381.  #381Daria on October 1, 2010 at 12:40 am

    knocksoftly – oooh tell me more! i feel so curious about being intimidating!!!

  382.  #382Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Thanks Rori,
    There is no such place I can think of. I am from India and the difference in culture makes it difficult for me to do the things that you usually recommend.

  383.  #383Daisy on October 1, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Meemee – I used to be addicted to men that weren’t good for me. I healed it completely with Rori’s tools and the support of this blog.

    No excuses about being from India – there are women from India here on the blog too – and it always seems like the tools are counterintuitive to apply, no matter where you’re from, at. You’ll see it later as you spend mote time here.

    Just know that you Can apply the tools, no matter where youre from… Even wearing a full burqa. It just seems like not what everyone else is doing… But the women who are happy and easy with men Are doing this process … It’s universal. Start with babysteps. We’ll help you and encourage you, and you can use them in a way that fits you and your situation…

  384.  #384Daisy on October 1, 2010 at 1:52 am

    Meemee – my apologies about Implying you were making excuses… I get triggered and react from there sometimes.

    A better way of saying what I said would be…

    Don’t worry about being from India, you can still use the tools adjusted for your particular situation.., (probably no Coda and maybe no Aa available, but you can heal just applying the tools daily and finding encouragement help and inspiration here)

    What tools are you familiar with at this point? Are u getting the e letters? Do u have the book?

    The e letters are free and have some of the best tools… Many of them visualizations to do in our imagination… No matter where we are… But that change our state of being so we simply become more open and attractive to good men

  385.  #385Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 1:57 am

    Hi Daisy,
    Thanks a ton. Yeah, I should take baby steps. I should definitely drop this man. I am convinced of that. But how do I start the process? Or is it a process at all? or should i do that here and now and go cold turkey with him? I am confused. I feel so pathetic when I am with this man.
    I think I am equally concerned about how to stay clam and happy and feel good, or may be more concerned about that. I want to reach that state where I am no more concerned about what he does and what he says, but doing my PhD, doing my work, doing things that will keep me happy.
    When I close my eyes, I can visualize that. But I am clueless as to how to get there 🙁
    Please help me with your suggestions. They mean a lot to me.

  386.  #386Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Hi Daisy,
    I am pretty new to this space. So not much familiar with the tools. Yeah, I am getting the e letters, but I don’t have the book. I have read the e letters and the tools that Rori talks about. But I have never practiced a single one of them.
    May be I should start re reading the letters today.

  387.  #387Renee on October 1, 2010 at 4:43 am


    Thanks for your insights. I remember reading that post and thinking that it reminded me of my last real boyfriend from 5yrs ago who was only moderately interesting to me at first and then he started talking about taking care of me financially, having a baby and basically a white picket fence as well…he definitely played to my “hooks” and that was the main draw with him.

    It feels different w/Blondie, though…like I just realized how great he was treating me (and had been for several weeks) and that this is what I had been saying I wanted all along…it’s possible, I suppose, that the promise of a relationship is a hook to me. He was moving the relationship forward despite my being lukewarm (introducing me to his friends, his father, etc.) and maybe just the idea of having a solid, loving relationship was a hook to me. Definitely something to think about…

  388.  #388Mercedes on October 1, 2010 at 7:34 am

    Lucy: Thanks and I hope your lights are back on! I hate, hate, hate being without power!

    Daria: I’m sorry my comments trigger you that way. I wish I could meet you in person so you will see that I’m not cold…maybe someday that will happen.

    As far as not understanding people, I really do feel that way and I’m not trying to be “better than” at all. When I see others being hurtful in any way…no matter what the situation…I struggle with understanding them. I’m talking about from a psychological perspective. I don’t get it. I don’t understand what happens inside a person when they either deliberately hurt someone or have zero disregard for that person and end up hurting them simply because they didn’t take them into consideration. I don’t know how I can explain it…but it’s the same reason why human behavior is studied by scientists and will always be studied by scientists. Some of us just don’t understand people and how or why they behave in certain ways. I am one of those people. I don’t understand it.

    I think sometimes you don’t understand me. If that isn’t true and you don’t see it that way, please correct me because I don’t want to put words in your mouth but it seems that way. If you struggle to understand why I am the way I am, then you understand where I’m coming from. I don’t think of you as cold because you don’t understand my ways. Can you see me as just different than you or just in a different place on my journey or as simply having a different personality rather than as “cold” and “pretending”?

    As I said, I would love to meet you in person and if I am ever in your area again and available for lunch, I’m going to invite you to join me. Hopefully you will say yes.

    Much Love,

  389.  #389Renee on October 1, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Just had an interesting conversation with an old boyfriend who is now my friend and told him about Blondie’s “prayer”…his take was totally different from ours. He said he completely got where this guy was coming from…that he could identify with feeling you were so damaged from your divorce and life that you didn’t want to screw up this great new relationship that had come into your life or hurt this wonderful new person you cared about. That was his take, anyway.

  390.  #390Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 10:27 am


    My heart is screaming in my chest……she needs the book!
    The book is so awesome and so inexpensive relative to the value it gives. Please get it….even if I had to ask a gf for the 20$ it would worth it…..without question……and if you can print it out that is probably better….I never printed mine…and now I’m wishing I did…..the book provides clarity and exercises the mind in a very healthy and soothing way.

  391.  #391Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Hey Nikita,
    Thank you for the suggestion. I will try and get the book as soon as possible. But I will have to wait till I get next month’s stipend 🙁 🙁 🙁

  392.  #392Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Memee – did you sign up for Rori’s newletter? Today’s is on Toxic Men and has two lists you can make to start you out. If you didn’t get it, click on my name, go to my blog and email me and I’ll forward it to you.

    @ KNOCKSOFTLY- wow, ohboy!! I am so GLAD to know you’re here!! That’s why the girls scared me so bad – they were like Amazons, lol…and 25 years younger and thinner. I just came up with a different tactic. The lean back YEARS before Rori, and I’ve always had a high degree of difficulty, hee hee….the men are kind of used to agressive and very talky girls – so a soft one just sitting ther smiling at em – seemed like it worked pretty well. Not always haha…sometimes they’d be like go away and I’d be like, no I like this seat – there were certain spots you could sit in and study the whole room….so I was soft but stubborn. After a while when I figure out no one was really going to jump me in the bathroom; but I was ready for that the whole time. Anyway….so good to hear from you!! Tell us about you??

    now if I could just find AMBER somewhere???? are you reading???

    Memee, let me know and just go read old posts – start with self esteem, that’ll help bunches.

    Happy day to everyone – Mercedes, thanks for writing too….


  393.  #393Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 11:07 am

    That should be when I figured out – above.

    and Mercedes – re this: I don’t understand what happens inside a person when they either deliberately hurt someone or have zero disregard for that person and end up hurting them simply because they didn’t take them into consideration

    I’d suggest that to the other woman, YOU don’t exist, excecpt as someone who is hurting the man she’s seeing in front of her – cuz that’s what he’s telling her.

    Not wanting to start a lot of crud around this – but really, you’re sitting there with someone telling you how they’re ignored, trapped, struggling whatever – no sex, locked out of the bedroom, affairs for years just like crying for help? – not literally, but in body posture and words that feel awful….and you’re supposed to think of someone who isn’t even there who for all you know IS that awful (and btw, on my guy’s wife? after several conversations…ummm, yeah, I felt really sorry for him…sh was a fine upstanding person but the whole time she’s talking I”m thinking she’s clinically delusional and who is this person she thinks she’s married to?!! That’s NOT the man I know – umm, yeah, cuz you don’t know him, haven’t for years! It was unbelievable for me to have that conversation with her, she was living in an imaginary relationship and he was just – miserable trying to make duty into happiness – that’s what I saw, and yeah I took his side – I do that with my friends, too)

    – anyway, that’s a stretch for most of us, to take a person who someone’s talking about hurting them and be compassionate for that person instead of the person in front of us.

    For example if you were talking to me about how much you hate your boss, or how unfair your review was because your boss didn’t want you to advance, or some such – would you expect me to be like all sympathetic to your bosses point of view? or would you think I’d be there with YOU?

    That’s a lot more what it’s like for the O.W. – if that’s what that sentence applied to.

    And I’m off to go check out happiness blog post and her site – practicing happiness daily I’ve decided!

    Happy Friday, all…


  394.  #394Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I got the newsletter and I am reading it now. I am realizing I should treat myself with more love, with more kindness. I have been down with a bad allergy for the last one month. My doctor says if I do let my stress levels shoot up, it will only aggrevate the hives and the allergy.
    I shoud stay happy. I should stay happy

  395.  #395Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 11:21 am

    @ Renee – the letter talks about men who withdraw, but aren’t toxic – it’s a good letter! Just like for me – you are real, blondie isn’t – so I’m totally on your side here. And for whatever reason he’s – blondie – got you spinning, I liked what your guy friend said. What do you think? And are you still going out with the doctor? Don’t leave the story hanging….smile!


  396.  #396Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 11:23 am

    hey, Memee – great; notice she says write about what’s up for you right NOW…not pulling the past along with it – why don’t you make one of those lists? I’ve had hives before – not sure it’s happy, but it is not stressed. So make the list if they feel good. If they don’t do the walk away – just turn around from all this and go do something that does feel good. But keep posting, okay?


  397.  #397Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 11:27 am

    I read the newsletter. It perfectly talked to me. I feel i have wasted 2 years by letting a man punish me, by tolerating his bad behavior thinking that it shows my strength. I am 27 now. Is it too late to start a fresh page? Have I really wasted my youth on him? I am feeling confused.
    Also, I am planning to make a list as the letter says. What do I do after making the list? Can I post it here?
    I am sorry to ask this, I am so new to this, I know nothing about how it works.


  398.  #398Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Memee – sure you can post it here – people post stories and just idead out of their heads, etc. Everyone will help you! This page is probably about done, though – so also go to the newest page and post your questions there? And darlin, I’ve started over at 43….did you read my story….and again at 50….it’s NEVER too late.

    And, I’ve gotta run – hope you visit my blog – and email me if you want to talk more.

    Be sure and go to newere post, okay – the old one’s just kind of run out….


  399.  #399Rori Raye on October 1, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Meemee – you’re a baby….fresh and new…with all the time in the world…Love, Rori

  400.  #400Daria on October 1, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    lol – I did get jumped in the bathroom – in highschool –

    but that turned into 125lbs me kicking a 300lbs girl’s ass – blood and gore

    in front of the whole group of our friends (boys too, yeah in the girls bathroom, they were trying to set me up)

    yeah nobody messed with me after that

    i felt so HAPPY! my parents felt horrified… I still felt Happy tho…

    F8uck that! haha!

  401.  #401Daria on October 1, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    she had Two black eyes!! – for 2 weeks , a ripped shirt covered with blood, and some more cuts on her face

    i had a broken nail and a scratch on my knee…

    (and my ears ringing for 2 days … and jumping everytime i saw someone that looked like her … but nobody knew that part)

  402.  #402Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 2:03 pm


    Welcome! I read your two posts. I feel sad you were overlooked. When someone new joins, your first comment goes into moderation, and Rori welcomes new people.

    I would feel really hurt too if a man I was attracted to treated me so nonchalantly. I noticed YOU invited HIM a couple of times. Rori says a man CAN’T fall in love with a woman when she is operating out of masculine energy…

    Let him take the oars and row. Just lean back and receive, like a waterwheel. We are here to support you, and these women are like sisters.

    Best wishes,

  403.  #403Mercedes on October 1, 2010 at 3:39 pm


    ” to take a person who someone’s talking about hurting them and be compassionate for that person instead of the person in front of us.”

    I’m not talking about being compassionate for someone who is hurting someone else or even liking them. I’m talking about not HURTING them…I’m talking about not DOING anything to them.

    In your example you talk about my boss. If I was here complaining about how awful she is and how hard she is to work for, ect, well…no…you don’t know her and I wouldn’t expect you to take her point of view…but I wouldn’t expect you to sleep with her husband either. Just because she’s doing something to me and hurting me doesn’t mean I want someone else to hurt her. I don’t want that at all. I never want anyone to hurt. The woman J slept with…do I want someone to sleep with her boyfriend so she will hurt because what she did hurt me? No. Goodness no. I don’t want her hurt at all. I wouldn’t want my boss hurt. I don’t want to see anyone hurting for any reason.

    So…to reverse the situation…if you tell ME how awful your boss is, I will be compassionate toward YOU but I will never, under any circumstances, hurt your boss.

    I typed this 3 hours ago and never had the chance to send it nor did I have the chance to read other comments so if this or something similar has already been responded…I apologize…grrrrr! I hate being this busy!

    Much Love,

  404.  #404Jennifer on October 1, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    I was at judo last night.
    Judo man was working with the new girl (WHY are there so many girls in judo?) I like her…she’s funny.
    I was working on the other side of the room. I felt him watching me. I look up and BAM…I’m getting a look over new girls shoulder.
    I interpret the look to mean….I’m touching a new girl…whaddya think about THAT?
    I instantly found him less attractive. I felt like Yuck.
    SO …now I wonder…..why did I interpret that way? NV?
    Then there was choking exercises. I hate those.
    Judo man saw my reluctance and whas like “awww come on…it’s like a special kind hug, come over here so I can choke you.”
    He had his bottom lip stuck out liek psudo pouty….
    I felt like EWWWWWWW
    Dude…way to make fun of my anxiety.
    Then I was thinking of other guy in judo…when he did my chokes he was like “Let me know if you’re nervous…I’ll stop right away.”
    And I’m like
    WHY is judo man so sexy?

  405.  #405Alonka on October 1, 2010 at 7:10 pm


    Thank you so much for paying attention to my posts. I wasn’t even sure you girls were able to see them;) So it sounds like I should wait for Rori to respond and then I get out of ‘moderation mode’?

    Thank you for reading my story. I know that I was initiating things in a way with my guy. The reason being – I was afraid that after a long silence (almost a year) I was sort of treating him as a friend and that what was pushing him away. I was completely in love, but did not act this way. I would describe my style as ‘reacting’ to a man and in a lot of situations this is the right thing to do, but there are some exceptions:) Unfortunately I think that I missed my chance here. Plus after saying to him : ‘I was in love, but this evening helped me [not to feel this way]’ – do you think he would ever show up? And of course when he said: ‘it’s not healthy [to be in love with someone for such a long time]’ I felt it was so unnecessary hurtful. There are better ways to express yourself in these situations – you can say ‘let’s stay friends’, etc., anything BUT insulting would do:) Anyway – I did not respond to that.

    On another note, I recently heard David Wygant talking in one of Rori’s programs and was surprised that i did not like what he had to say:) He sounded just as one of those ever single guys in NY that I meet (I live in NY). What I am trying to say is that he sounded like someone who has no idea what real bond between people can be and I wonder how he can help people. One exampe is when he is saying that he hates it when women ‘put him on a pedestal’. It’s funny, I recently read about a research done at Columbia University that couples that put each other on a pedestal are 1) much happier and 2) last a lot longer 😉 I know that when i’m in love, I adore my partner and am happy to put him on a pedestal! (And I will do it again haha). Now I don’t think it takes anything away from me, it is not a self-diminishing feeling, I just adore them! And if David thinks there’s something wrong with it, that tells me that perhaps there is a disconnect for him that he may want to work on. Also, I should admit that I put my friends on a pedestal too sometimes, i.e. I am feel extremely proud of them and it’s a great feeling.

  406.  #406Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Hi, Alonka!!! WELCOME!!! What Brenda was saying is that the FIRST time you post, you go to moderation – after that you are free to post unless you write something with curse words or Jes*s…and stuff like that. So, feel free to continue posting and welcome to the Rori world. Her message is invaluable for our self esteem and communication – and a lot of time I hear people saying her stuff in a way that doesn’t sound anything like her – so I always encourage newcomers to go read all the archived posts on the side at the top – that’s what I did – I started with self esteem and femininity….

    I read that study, too. It was good – and I sent this guy I’d interviewed on my blog some studies about what he was saying, and he took it to mean I thought he was correct. Grin…what I was really showing him/saying is that there’s always back up for almost every opinion.

    So, your own feelings will be your compass – Rori wrote something like that recently. And when you feel bad, she’s got baby step tools to get you to feeling good. So, stay here and make friends – this post will probably not be very active much longer – if no one sees you writing, just jump onto the very newest post and we’ll all catch up there at some point.

    Hugs and good luck!


  407.  #407Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Hey, Mercedes – I mean your boss is not someone I want to hurt!! nor do anything to in any way because she or he is just an object to me – you are the subject. The person once removed from me is an idea, not a person – ergo, the guy’s wife (until she spoke to me so condscendingly…smile) was an abstract concept. I didn’t even CONSIDER HURTING her as she did not exist for me as a person.

    So, you’re thinking and speaking as IF I would consider your boss someone to do something to, or someone I could or would even interact with – and I’m telling you that is not my experience of how human connections are made. I realate to YOU _ J is nothing to me but an idea – if he hurts you, I feel badly for YOU.

    And actually, since you are not married, I know you felt very betrayed but he betrayed you, not the girl he was with. She had nothing to do with it to YOU, she’d made no promises, etc. to you.

    It’s like an ethics class – you can call her once removed and somewhat culpuable, but in her mind? I”m telling you she never even thought about you.

    “Other Women” do not set out to hurt someone, they tend – IMO and IME (experience) to be drawn into trying to HELP someone – who has someone attached to him and is spinning the story in a way that makes him look best to get whatever he wants.

    Do you think Tiger Woods told those girls, Oh, I love my wife, she is a saint, I want you to feel really really bad for her when this is over? Ummmm, naaaaah….

    Similarly, Kat VonDee or whomever she is said it would have been EASY for Jessie James to just say I’m married and walk away.

    The other woman is NOT culpuable to hurting the person behind the guy – the MAN is culpuable. And it ends there.

    No FEMALE was ever really a homewrecker, the man did that all by himself. I for example had no home to wreck, and if his home was wrecked, it wasn’t by me breaking any promises I had made to his family.

    In the real world, say I hurt you by refusing to wear a bridesmaids gown after I’d promise to be your bridesmaid. I am not hurting anyone other than the person I made the promise to – you.

    And to take this one step further, even IF someone makes you a promise or a legally binding vow, they can change. Maybe they don’t have the courage to face down you, their family and friends disgust, etc. but they can and do change and they can choose to — by whatever means they want and can live with – mess that up at any moment. No piece of paper and no promise can stop that.

    It is an uncertaintity that all relationships exist within – and why I suggest making sure you do KNOW your partner. NEVER let them get out of touch to the point where you no longer know them – they don’t always rubber band back. There’s a failsafe to not hurting here, and it’s on the two people in the relationship – if someone changes so much they are miserable it’s up to the other one to react, to notice, to agree to do something different – or to experience whatever it is people do when they feel chained, stifled and regretful and resentful.

    You found your solution to this; but this is the foundation of why I say you cannot and never will OWN another person – you can own 1/2 of all their personal property but you cannot own them. They are free to lie, cheat and steal. They are responsible for their own actions. They are responsible for keeping their word. No one else is, and yet – somehow – we manage to make the other woman into someone who wanted to hurt us? No, she didn’t.

    Just saying…

    and love back to you!!! and thank you for being someone I can tell my point of view to…


  408.  #408Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    @ Daria – hi! well I helped start a riot in High School, and had the whole art class put out signs dissing this teacher that said boys with long hair were fa******* – yep, that was the word back then.

    AND I have 16 stitches down the back of my head from a bar fight. Your 20’s can be very….ummm…learning? LOL – the girl pushed me into the corner of a brick flower bed – and all everyone talked about was I had on a black dress, black hose, shoes and white panties…they had to pull me off her. Oh, yeah, I was totally all about my feelings.

    so yeah, I NEVER quit watching my back – esp. with the tire shop, I thought it was just a matter of time if I didn’t get out of there.

    You go, with the 2 black eyes tho!! grin….

    and about the agressive stripper? Men are pretty specific about what they want in a bar setting….

    but sales? I’ve had like a million courses, starting way back with Dale Carnegie. Truely selling something – for me – is figuring out what they want and giving it to them exactly as they want it.

    Like I went to buy a small truck once, and said I don’t want carpet, no radio, etc. just cheap…and the man was like you’re gonna hate that – and he was right.

    So, the very best way to sell something is features and benefits – so I have a feature; like I’m a good listener, and the benefit is that you feel really heard, seen and acknowledge. You tell people what the feature is (or show em) but you SELL them on what the benefit is.

    AND, for me, I can only sell something I believe in; if I don’t believe in it, I can’t do it. Like I sold the heck out of ads for the little Spanish newspaper because for the right advertiser, it worked big time. Could count the people in the door.

    But radio advertising – selling someone the idea that their name’s gonna be more recognizable and that’ll make a difference in their sales? I wasn’t very good at it.

    If you’re really going to take any kind of courses, the newest stuff out there is on “branding,” check that out – we’re all developing our personal brand, and it has to be one with a consistent message, etc. to sell….very interesting stuff….

    Everyone – yall have a great Friday nite!!


  409.  #409Girl on October 1, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Oh shablam! I’m feeling a little triggered cause D is catering the wedding of his ex girlfriend. I volunteered to help him prep. It was a lot of work and I grated my own fingernail and skin instead of cheese! Heavy lifting, too! ugh! Now I understand how effing HARD he works ALL THE TIME!! It was Such. Hard. Work. Throughout the day, as the family was passing in and out of the Bride’s aunt’s beautiful mansion, I felt anxious but strong friendly and good. I noticed that I actually am anti-social. I really think so. I really feel like other people interrupt my thoughts for the most part. And I wouldn’t mind an “interruption” at all so long as what they say is more interesting than what I’m thinking. Which is why it’s good when I’m in a mindset of serving people – which is tricky when trying to master the Rori Raye way…What do you think??? Yeah, I know I sound like a jerk – that’s why I’m trying to think less and feel more. Okay…so I’m noticing I was just in crazy mode. I feel like going to bed…g’night moon…