Circular Dating Even When You’re Exclusive

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If you’ve become “exclusive” with a man before the ring is on your finger and the wedding date is set – how do you handle the ups and downs and insecurities and weirdnesses that come up – the very things that my Circular Dating tools are meant to help you avoid?

There’s a firm line between “dating” and “not dating.”  But Circular Dating embraces a much “grayer” area – and that’s how you “relate” to all men, everywhere, even though you’re technically “exclusive” with one man.

Here’s part of a comment from Jacqueline – and my answer to this part will help you turn that black-and-white way of looking at this into something much better-feeling and more helpful:

“Dear Rori,

…since we’ve been dating for 8 months and have had marriage, kids, etc on the table as well as our timelines (he told me his timeline for marriage and kids is 6 months later than mine). we have a great relationship…I see myself with him in the future. I love him and he loves me.

My question with exclusivity: I accepted his third request for exclusivity after our talk about it and my agreement of terms. However, after hearing your program, I feel like I should date other people.

I do, however, think this would be painful to him. He’s done everything to show me he is invested and loves me (meeting my family several times and me meeting his). I would think he would want to break up if I said I wanted to date other people…..since he’s been a great man to me.

What if when i say to him, “you can take all the time you need, I don’t want to put pressure on you or on the relationship…I’m just not willing to shut my options down right now” that he’ll say, “well I want to be with someone who will be true to me and us.” I want to know you have the ability to be faithful to me down the road. And this dating other people shows me you can’t be and that you might cheat on me in the future.

Then what? Thank you. J”

Here’s my answer:

You can Circular Date without actually DATING anyone – just flirting and letting men come up to you and talk with you and EXPERIENCING that your options are open. It’s having the solid confidence that if your man slipped up or got wishy-washy – you’d be able to go out and have fun with a new man at the drop of a hat. That vibe in you is all you need for now. This is what my Targeting Mr. Right program is all about.

So – without trying to give you all the nuts and bolts of the program, let’s just talk here about how this could work in your MIND.

1. Stop Guessing.

There’s a BIG thing I hear in your letter – and that’s you GUESSING.  You’re guessing “what he would say” if you were to give him the “No Boyfriend” speech so that he can understand it.

2. Define what YOU mean by “options open.”

I’m certain he would not expect that you would not TALK to another man.  Will you feel guilty talking to another man?  Flirting with him?  Letting him ask for your phone number or email address?  Giving you his business card?  Or does this feel natural to you under the circumstances?

Everywhere you go, and everything you do, there are men.  All sizes, shapes, colors, types…and men all the same.  You can either close yourself and your body down around them, or you can…

3. Keep YOURSELF open.

You can either radiate a “I’m not available in any way” vibe, or you can radiate a  “I’m not married- give it your best shot” vibe, or you can radiate a “I’m exclusively involved at the moment, and I plan to be married, yet I’m open to finding out who you are…” vibe.

There’s all kinds of ways to be in this world – and closed down is my least favorite.

There’s a big difference between having your vibe be completely open and available and actually GOING on a literal “date.”

And there’s a big difference between having coffee at a coffee shop with a man who just came up to you out-of-the-blue, sat down and started a conversation, and letting him pick you up and take you to dinner.

There’s a lot of gray area in there.

4. Embrace the gray area.

In your MIND – see what you can find in that gray area that would work for you.

A gray area you can actually put into words, that you could actually share with the man you’re exclusive with.  (so you can stop guessing.)

A gray area you can be comfortable with – so that you are always living the Rori Raye Mantra last line – Trust Your Boundaries, Follow Your Feelings, Choose Your Words, and most important here…

5. Be Surprised.

Your willingness to be surprised, and to be curious about the world around you and the people in it – including men – can be HUGE.  This is ALL Circular Dating.  It’s ALL accessing and using the “Diva” part of you that truly lives – 100% – IN the world and doesn’t shut down her sensuality and sexuality and feminine vibe under ANY circumstances.

It’s about how you can…

6. Be in a state of ROMANCE with the entire world.

I’ll write more and more about this – but for now…simply put on your “romance” glasses and see the world through them.  See everything as interesting and romantic, quaint and curious, fresh and inspiring…basically something you can love by just loving yourself in its presence.

Let me know if this jogs your thinking around this – and get out in the world and see if you can relate to men in this open way even though you are exclusively involved with one man.

Love, Rori

103 Comments

  1.  #1Robin on May 1, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Hello Rori!

    My pattern seems to be getting put int he ‘friends’ category.

    When I was a teenager, I thought this was the way to go, because I always heard from people that you want to “marry your best friend.” Or that you have a better chance of being with someone if you are their friend first.

    Looking back, I can see how I came to this conlusion; my grandparents were best friends, and theirs was the healthiest of relationships I could observe at that time in my life. And even that was not all that healthy and not completely what I want for my own life…

    I really value a friendship element in a long-term relationship, and can see from others in my life that this is important for marriage, BUT…

    I’m missing something if I keep getting put in that category. And I can’t quite figure out how to undo this pattern, because I formed this pattern, thinking it was a good thing to go to one extreme of the spectrum.

    Is there a specific way to break this pattern all at once, or is this something for baby steps??



  2.  #2Robin on May 1, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    I want to be seen as a GODDESS, not a ‘friend’



  3.  #3ann on May 1, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    checking in from mobile in middle of a thunderstorm. hope to be back later.



  4.  #4Gina on May 1, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    I’m having a difficult time with my passion about politics sort of interfering with romance. I consider our country to be in a state of crisis, and I feel passionate about spreading the message of liberty. I would not date a guy who’s political view I could not respect. I have been guys who are of a similar mindset – at first, the conversations are great, but then, as we begin to talk about deeper issues, I sense that the guy is turned off if I know more about something. And I lose respect for the guy when I sense that he is limited either in his perception, or in his willingness to learn more. But then again, as I think about these specific men, I know that there is more about our chemistry that is “off” than just these conversations. However, without having gone deep and revealed whatever weakness I now perceive in them, we could have had more of a relationship. Now that I’m writing this, I see that I tend to do that – I look for the guys’ weakness even though I want them to be strong!!



  5.  #5Tina T on May 1, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    My favorite part is where you say to “stop guessing.” I think that it is very much in our nature as women to act according to what we are guessing the outcome will be rather than just doing what we set out to do. We do this in many of our relationships not just romantic ones and it definitely holds us back.



  6.  #6Lin on May 1, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Rori,
    Yes I agree with you 100%.
    This is so important to a women..to be out there… meeting and being her beautiful self.
    until she is with the ring.. and she is with the man on his knees. setting the date… until then
    we can explore… and enjoy everyone… !!
    That’s is what not giving out power away means.
    Thank you Rori… what you do for women is truly a blessing.
    Lin



  7.  #7Winks on May 1, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Circular Dating is a great thing for women since we get so emotionally involved so easily. I met a man I like online. We have been dating a couple months, still getting to know each other really, but are sleeping together. I am still meeting guys online (mostly some real frogs!). On this particular site you can see if someone is “Online Now” or have logged in Today or Yesterday etc. Even though I am meeting people, it makes me feel sad to see him online, especially after a great time together and I’m blissed out on some hormonal love chemicals. It might make a man feel challenged to try to win a woman. But I feel like he doesn’t take me seriously if he’s “circular dating” as well. I know I probably shouldn’t be stalking him that way…
    I’m not sure I feel justified asking him not to date other women if I am. This is a tough one for me to fully grasp and I’m not sure I can present a convincing argument for this to him.
    It may be too soon to have this type of talk anyway. He is still getting to know me and may not be fully there if I were to give that type of ultimatum (stop seeing other women or I walk). When is the right time to approach the topic, I thought when he asks me to see only him. And so far he’s not askin’…though he does tease me about other guys in a joking way.
    See there, I sound so emotionally involved already!! If only all those guys I’m Circular Dating weren’t such frogs!! blah!



  8.  #8Robin on May 1, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Wow, Wink, I feel the same way as you!

    I’m feeling scared that the same thing will happen to me with these new guys I’m circular dating. Omg, what if I start to ‘laser-focus’ on one of these new guys, just like I did with the last guy I was involved with ( even though I have new perspectives and higher self-esteem than I did then…I know there’s no way really, it will be like it was with this last guy) I still feel scared..my fear of intimacy is really coming out ( along with the ‘nasy’ voices telling me to be careful).

    I love my nasty voice, thank you for trying to help me, I trust myself, I can see the red flags, I won’t tolerate bad behavior, I won’t make it too easy ( oh but Im afraid I will…)

    I’m not who I was before…I can tolerate and love this fear. Wink, thank you, let’s love our fear and keep busting through that fear with more ‘therapy’ dates!



  9.  #9Winks on May 1, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Yes Robin! that voice that says BE CAREFUL. In the past If I let on that I actually liked someone that was their exit cue! I have learned a lot since then, but…Oh I love my fear 🙂



  10.  #10Ann on May 1, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    I feel unsettled tonight. It feels like everytime I think I have this good feeling, open vibe feeling thing down something will happen. Sometimes I can stay with the good but other time I just shut down. I want to be a goddess all the time. This feels frustrating. I don’t want to feel insecure.



  11.  #11TW on May 1, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Lin-
    I miss you.. How have you been doing? I am having my ups and downs… Highs and lows. I post on the new ask here and I’ll answer your questions post. My relationship with my LI has gone from good to bad and back to good and bad. How are you and J? I am scared that I am fighting a battle I can not win my love.



  12.  #12TW on May 1, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    What is Clara and Cassandra? Are htey still posting?



  13.  #13Tracy on May 2, 2009 at 3:20 am

    Robin,
    I can totally relate to always being treated as a best friend will the guyz that i liked….i felt that by always doing things for them they’d realize how great i was and date me….
    Recently one of my Ex boyfriend got engaged and he sent me a message about his wedding plans and i felt angry….
    Not towards him really but i felt angry at myself for always being there at his beck and call and he never really responded or even expressed his affection towards me…
    I felt humiliated and i felt i had been used all along….I felt bad and hurt and i felt angry for takin out so much of my time always trying to keep close ties with him and being there for him instead of focusing on myself….For me i realize that the friendship if not responded will turn to resentment and i agree with Rori and Daria who posted somewhere else that pretending to be friends with someone to whom you have feelings for is not authentic and it only hurts in the end…..
    I am hapy though because now i do not feel the urge to lean forward and be nice….i’ve learnt to respond instead and just live in the moment….concentrate on that which is important to me….
    I have been tryin to circular date and though i am not very diligent the little i have done has changed my vibe completely……My vibe has changed and i feel that i am now learning to respond to men with my feminine self,leaning back…….melting to their affection…..it feels different but i love it….
    I haven’t met anyone i like….truth is most guyz i’ve dated are not my type………but i always try to enjoy myself and loose myself in the moment……..i feel encouraged to do more of circular dating……it feels very refreshing…



  14.  #14Flipper on May 2, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Hi TW – I’ve missed you over these last few mos. Like you, I feel so good to hear from Lin again lately, too. Cassandra has recently begun posting quite a bit again – look through the more recent threads. No news of dear Clara, such a deep, wise, generous woman, a precious yet fragile jewel. I hope she knows that we are thinking of her and that she’s allowing herself to receive all that she deserves.

    I’m sorry to hear that you do not yet feel happy in your relationship – I was so hoping your silence meant that you were off basking in bliss. It felt good that you finally spelled out directly to your LI what you want as a relationship, and specified that you didn’t want to put pressure on him to step up. However, I feel that leaving it at that is maybe just short of what he needs to hear. There is an example or two in recent posts where the girl has gone on to say, as Rori suggests, something like this :
    “I dont want to put any pressure on you to decide. Take as much time as you like, but I feel I cannot cut off my options in the meantime by just waiting around for that. So I will continue to see others as well as you “. This is NOT giving him an ultimatum or telling him what to do, but it is letting him know that there may be consequences to his indecision, that he risks losing you. If you don’t let him know that, how could he realize such a possibility exists as all his experience tells him he can wait, do nothing for or with you and Still have the choice of claiming you (or not) for as long as he wants (or doesn’t want to bother thinking about it).

    I don’t know how you feel about sexual exclusivity – if you continued your discussion as above, that might be the moment to say whether or not your dating others included the possibility of sleeping with them or not. I know you said you did that recently, but I don’t see the use and wouldn’t feel good ‘confessing’ that to him (that’s in the past and you had no agreement). (BTW, that felt like it could be some acting out on your part of what you fear he may be doing with other women ?(‘females’ is a triggering word for me, it feels reductive, demeaning).

    I can feel the bravery you showed talking with him so clearly already. It may feel like one step forward and one back, but your progress feels real, strengthening you and giving you good guidelines to carry on. Warm hugs.



  15.  #15Rori Raye on May 2, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Gina – You’ve got yourself pegged. This is how you push love away – with your mind.

    You’re going to have to decide – do you want a male ‘friend’ to argue with and talk politics and show off your smarts? Or..

    Do you want romance and love?

    If Carville and Matlin can do this – so can you. They NEVER talk about politics, and that’s how they do it. You just work it out.

    You can respect a man for any number of things – and most of all, for the way he treats YOU. Find those things, instead of the narrow window you’re offering yourself. Experiment. Keep your mind out of it. Love, Rori



  16.  #16Rori Raye on May 2, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Robin – I’m going to jump off your wonderful question…Rori



  17.  #17Symantha on May 2, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Rori,

    It’s amazing the syncronicity of this post as it relates to the issue i’m going trought right now. I wrote to you few weeks ago about my fiancee not told his parents that we were engaged, you answered me back and that really helped me with my insecurities, now I feel trap with exclusivity, having a outrageous engagement ring and we are living together but he is struggling to set the wedding date and start the finance planning (savings) and every time the subject comes up in a way of he proposing to go in a 3 days trip and me saying sorry, I don’t want to do anything where we have to spend too much money and prevents us to save’ and afterwards a open conversation about the whole thing about getting married, he finnally tell me tha he feels scared, that he can se us together with kids, house, the hole package but that he fells insecure and worry to not to make a mistake (he is separated 2 yrs ago and just divorced). That makes me feel devastated and my seelfconfidence go along with his insecurities wich I can see everytime that he does something not aligned with the purpose of getting married in chrismast time 2009 (at least that was something we agreed when we got engaged 4 months ago).
    There’s another thing that looks is still coming up is about his ex-wife. They are friends and he told me she is feeling sick and he wants to visit her, they are keeping close contact by phone and that doesn’t help to the whole situation.
    The thing is I’m tired of having the heart to heart conversations about his insecurities and then something he does that triggers again the issue, like we agreed to start saving this month and he just tols me, can’t we start until next month? and I felt like ‘what???’ I want to change things and being him the one following trough about the wedding not me, I’ve told him since the engagement that I don’t want to feel that’s me the one that has to push the wedding troley.
    Please help, any ideas for a new approach??

    Love,
    Symantha



  18.  #18Daria on May 2, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    I am hearing what Rori said to Gina and yet I feel kind of disappointed and confused a little.

    I feel so good bantering with guys, teasing each other playfully and engaging in a back and forth. During a conversation like this I feel “lit up,” full of happiness and joy, smily and fun and “gotten.” I also realized that this is how I was raised by my dad, his way of showing affection is to make a smart ass teasing comment, and my way is to return it creatively. We both feel happy and joyful doing this.

    When I refrain from teasing guys, I lean back and have a feeling of mystery and Goddessness, I feel very sexy. But I don’t feel as happy and “lit up” as I do when bantering.

    It also feels weird and stressful to me to imagine a man who doesn’t “get” my worldview and my passion as my partner.

    How do I reconcile these ways of being… is bantering ok or is this something only for friends. Because if so I seem to want to be friends with men more than I want a relationship without it. I feel kind of mad and rebellious here. I WANT to feel easy going fun playfulness.



  19.  #19Robin on May 2, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Daria, I totally feel the same way. I often wonder, I want to be my feminine goddess self 24/7, but I also want to be playful.

    The last guy who I was seeing ( he want to be ‘friends’) and I would often connect through banter…sometimes we would joke and laugh nonstop. Other times I was in my goddess, lean backed, calm, quiet mode.

    I wonder how you could banter while being in your leaned-back goddess self element?? Figuring this out would feel so great!



  20.  #20Robin on May 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    I did always feel ‘got’ when we were bantering and laughing. I also felt incredible connection and chemistry.

    I wonder what the missing element here is???



  21.  #21Ann on May 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    Daria I feel where you are coming from. I love the smart alecly teasing, see who can one up the other. This is a part of me. A part I like, I don’t want to have to disown it to be more feminine. Rori help us understand here please



  22.  #22Dorothea on May 2, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    I agree, I would love to understand more about this ^^^ too



  23.  #23Linmayu on May 2, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    How about just leaning back physically while hurling those witty barbs back and forth? I imagine that’d be super sexy and feel good.

    I couldn’t live without that kind of teasing either.



  24.  #24Liz on May 3, 2009 at 6:28 am

    Ditto, ditto, ditto. I enjoy and feel good having witty banter with a guy. Its a way for me to feel I’m not using my logical brain so much as my creative thought side. And, it often does bring on a feeling of playfulness, intriguing sexual tension. Plus, I feel a thrill knowing that a guy is mentally sharp and agile in his expression and thoughts. In the past several years I’ve really tried to keep my banter devoid of hard core scarcasm, and just keep it witty and creative. I like Linmayu’s suggestion to physically lean back while engaging in it.

    So, Rori, what should us Goddesses be aware of that is likely going on behind our desire and intrigue for witty banter, and what are some thoughts to keep in mind should we continue doing it to maximize our Goddess quality while its happening???….



  25.  #25TW on May 3, 2009 at 7:12 am

    Flipper-

    I asked my LI for sexual exclusivity already and he said that he has not been with anyone else and that he is not seeing anyone else so we already had that conversation. I leaned forward a little and just sent him an e mail telling him that I am lonely and tired of spending the weekends alone. I told him that I understood that he works all the time and that he is a single parent just as I am but I have made myself to available to him and I know that is where I am going wrong. I also told him that other guys notice the same qualities that he sees and likes in me. I love him with all of my heart and more but I am so tired of sleeping alone and being alone all of the time you know. He has not called me all weekend and last weekend either. It is like he can call Monday through Friday but then take the weekends off. It hurts my feelings but another guy has been spending some time with me and I really like it and I like him too. I dated him about a year and a half ago and it did not go well but it is what it is and things are so different this time around. He is more attentive and he calls and texts me ever day. We have so much fun together not to mention that he is very CUTE. I do not love him though but that does not mean that I will not love him later on down the line. My LI is the man that I want to marry and has been but he may never step up. I am going through the modern siren program right now to see what I need to do to turn this around.



  26.  #26Flipper on May 3, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Hi Symantha,

    Sounds like you’re in a place that’s feeling worse and worse, causing you to feel more and more upset with your guy, and like you’re doing all the “doing” + putting up with his “stuff”. Maybe this is where it’s a good time to back off : concentrate ONLY on your personal stuff, and let go of all the figuring out, worrying, and attending to either him or the relationship. As you said, you’re not in this to do it by yourself, but he may not be able to get the idea/desire to pick up the ball until you’ve dropped it. So arrange to do fun but inexpensive or free things by yourself or with friends. I think it would be leaning forward if You tried to Convince Him to want to do such things instead of his trip, but if he asked to go along with you or came up with something similar on his own that wouldn’t break the bank, then you could feel good about accepting.

    If he comes around again with expensive suggestions that would cancel your saving project, how about trying to find a feeling message about that instead of reminding him of your agreement or explaining again (been there, done that, right? yuck). Perhaps something like: “gee honey, I feel great when we do that together, and right now I would feel bad if I saw the money for it taken away from xx (this other wonderful thing I’m counting on having/doing later). I don’t want to disappoint you or feel like I’m letting myself down. What do you think? “



  27.  #27Symantha on May 3, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Hi Flipper,
    thanks for taking the time to read and give me your feedback! and you are right, its felling worse today. When he proposed the trip he asked me to go with him and I said I had no money and he offers to pay for it by himself and I responded that I woudn’t feel confortable… and then I shot down and couldn’t speak until the next day where I told him wich feelings of insecurities came when he plans tings together but we haven’t start our wedding plans as a reflection of something not going well, so he ‘confessed’ hahahhaha.
    Mid last week I started to lean back an go out with my friends and he started to notice and being more attentive and loving until last night discussion where I came I posted. I shot down and couln’t speak a word and I felt he knew I was angry but he just gave glinces like a dog awaiting a yell.
    We had inexpensive day trip today, so last night I cancelled and told him I needed to be by myself and not wanting to go to the trip and apologized for cancelling with short notice, he knew the reasons but didn’t asked too much just told me: keep me posted on your plans. He couldn’t sleep weel and was holding me and sweet kisses during the night. This morning was the most lovely guy, being sooo attentive and breakfast in the bed, etc, etc say Love you, oohhhh and told me that he wasn’t boycoting my plans to go out but if i decided to stay he would be more than happy. I left the house anyway and he repeated to keep him posted about coming back later and that he didn’t plan anything so I did and came back earky and he was off to visit his ex wich lives an hour drive. I was sooo MAD and we start all over again, the conversation, how I feel and blah, blah blah and felt cheated as the agreement was to call eachother and notify about plans and moves but he didn’t call to tell me he was going to see his ex… I feel so dissapointed, not exciment… even I feel heard and understood but he insist he has some issues with himself to sortout and that he ‘knows’ that he is risking the relationship and that I can decide to leave in any moment so he is just hoping that that moment doesn’t arrive yet so he has time to feel the exciment about the wedding, he said he love me and marriage stils on the table but he needs time gggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    I’m just afraid to get in a pitty state and make the vibe worse for the convivence as we live together, he told me he’s sorry for his weakness, I don’t know what’s best for me right now. Buuhhh
    Sorry for th elong letter and my english

    Symantha



  28.  #28Mercedes on May 4, 2009 at 7:14 am

    Symantha: I’m with Flipper on this one. Lean back…all the way back…and don’t come home early. You’re doing a lot and doing a lot of thinking and…notice…he’s attentive and loving as soon as you stop doing all of that but…as soon as you start again, he’s off doing his own thing. Looks to me like you are your own proof that leaning back works…really well! 🙂

    Also, if it were me (and we may be nothing alike so take this with a grain of salt – and a shot of tequila and a slice of lime if you’d like) I’d take the engagement ring off. I’d keep it of course but I’d feel odd wearing an engagement ring when a date hasn’t been set and plans aren’t moving forward. I’d feel silly when people ask me when I’m getting married and I keep having to say we haven’t set a date yet. I’d tell him that I want so much to wear the ring but it feel like it isn’t really an engagement ring so much as it is a notice to all other men out there that I am taken. I’d tell him I much prefer he propose when he’s ready to start the process of moving toward the marriage and until he’s ready for that, the ring will be safe and sound right next to the other jewls I don’t wear…and I’d tell him that I am soooo looking forward to the day when I can wear it again. But again…that’s me and I’m a little different than a lot of women…regardless of what you do, I hope you lean all the way back until he starts moving forward.

    To all you lovely ladies who can’t stop the banter, I’m with you on that one!! My bf and I talk politics (which we agree on for the most part) and religion (which we are LIGHT YEARS apart on) and we do it with humor and wit and sometimes, it gets serious. When things get intense, one of us usually breaks the tension with a little flirty joke but that doesn’t stop us from disagreeing sometimes. I think that’s ok. I do love being a feminine goddess but…there’s a part of me that wants to be respected for my intelligence as well (a big part of me) and I want that respect to come from my bf. I am smart and I’ve worked really hard to get where I am in my industry and I want my partner to see and love that about me. So…we discuss real issues and we agree and we disagree and we move forward. And to be honest with you, he likes that I can carry on those conversations when I’m around people he works with. He’s proud of me in situations where men are together and they’re discussing politics or world events and I can contribute. I like that he’s proud of that. I want him to be proud to have me on his arm for more than what I look like…but for my brain as well (I’ve been a Barbie Doll and I have no intention of doing THAT again).

    That being said, I do WAY more flirting and having fun and joking around and being sensual and sexy than I do talking about serious subjects that I am passionate about. I’m not trying to one up him all the time with my witt but…when he opens himself wide up for it…I can’t help myself. 😉

    When he describes me to others, he tells them: “She’s beautiful and sexy and smart and witty and funny as hell and she’s totally kicking ass at work”…that’s EXACTLY the description I’d like my man to have of me. It tells me he likes so much more of me than what I look like…he likes ALL of me…the intelligent part along with the feminine part…and I think it’s important that he LIKES me as well as LOVES me…I want him to like me. (We were one of those couples who had an amazing friendship before we became intimate but..we knew there was attraction and we talked about that…we acknowleged it and stayed friends. It was later that we decided to explore the other side of us. Things would get intense – chemistry – and we’d take a step back rather than kiss. By the time we decided to check out whatever it was romantically that we had, we had built up a LOT of sexual tension…it worked for us to be friends and he is still to this day my BEST friend…much different than my best girlfriend – we all need those – but never the less, he’s my best friend).

    Anyway…there was lot to talk about with this post and I LOVE it!! I hope you all had an amazing weekend…

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  29.  #29TW on May 4, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Mercedes-
    You are so right. I need ot lean way back as weel because the more I do for my LI the more he ignores me. He just called and asked me to do something for him that I normally would have made arrangements to take care of it for him but I did not this time. I was like he has not bothered to pick up the phone all weekend and call me but now that he needs something he puts me on speed dial but that is okay because I am watching modern siren and he better watch out because when the sireness comes out of eme he may be left way behind. I am on disk 1. I watched 2 but keep falling asleep on them because I try to watch them late at night but now I have all day to pay attention so the fun begins after I finish cleaning.



  30.  #30Mercedes on May 4, 2009 at 8:11 am

    TW: I hate it when my bf does that! We see each other every day so I haven’t had a situation where he didn’t call but then asked me to do something…however…he has been distant with me (while I’m in the same room) and then asked me to do something for him. I hate it so much. At first, I simply said “no…I have things I need to do for myself and won’t have time”, but…that wasn’t exactly authentic and certainly didn’t address how I felt and without a doubt it didn’t help to change his behavior (he actually seemed put off by it and then I felt selfish, etc). So I changed my tactic and it doesn’t happen very often anymore. Basically, I told him how I felt about it (although I was new at this whole “feeling message” thing so it came out more like a tigress with her teeth bared instead of a feminine goddess). But as sloppy as it came out, he did hear about my feelings…he knew I was hurt and angry…now it’s rare. But…because of that conversation where I blew up and told him how angry I was that I can sit there all day while his focus is on everything EXCEPT me and then ask me to stop and pick up dinner for us…well…now…I can (and do) refer back to that conversation when it does happen. I’ll say to him “Do you remember how much it hurts me when we’ve spent a weekend together but you’re focused on video games all day and then you want sex at night and want me to run errands for you? Well…this feels just like that.” Generally, he apologizes and says he didn’t even realize he was doing it and how can he make up for it? I usually suggest an evening…just the two of us with a bottle of wine in the hot tub…and he’s game.

    So…I hope you can tell him how you feel (and I hope you can do it better than I did…LOL) so he’ll be able to see that not only does it make you not want to do things for him but he can also see how doing those things affects how you FEEL…how you feel about him, how you feel about your relationship and most importantly how you feel about YOURSELF.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  31.  #31Symantha on May 4, 2009 at 8:20 am

    HI girls
    Loved your post and Mercedes thanks…. I’m from mobile so I’ll be back later 🙂
    Symantha



  32.  #32Nelia on May 4, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Excellent post! Why does it seem that, generally speaking, women are more challenged than men when it comes to being open, nevermind dating more than one human being?



  33.  #33Linda on May 4, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    So ladies I am circular dating. Well one just texts me everyday.. says we will meet but… never commits so he does not count.

    One is really nice… kinda stepping up an I like him okay.

    The one I really like…has had me all over the map.. I hate that. I need to not let myself get manipulated.. sometimes it is so subtle. I know what it is like to really like one of them and get emotionally tied up and try not to be. It is a huge battle for me.

    This guy has had a string of bad things happen to him. His last marriage sounds like a fiasco. I wish I had met him before her. That experience that he wont really let go of (fear and hurt) has made it almost impossible to have any kind of steady chance to build anything with him at his doing. A couple a weeks ago we were talking bout meeting each others families.. etc.. and then he jetted. I heard alittle from him via text (twice) but he ignored mine on another day. I leaned back and left him alone.. still talking to other men, daiting and searching. Then I hear from him 9 days later…he asks if we could get togehter last nite. I agreed…he came in sat at the kitchen table, like it was a business meeting..telling me that “it is just not all there with me for him” and he was going to stay true to that for himself. He admitted that he did not feel close to me like he needs to….. ahhh my lead in

    I posted earlier about emotionally unavailability.. and I got to confront him on lots of issues. First I told him his behavior was disprespectful to me and the last thing he did.. tell me he loved me and leave…. was very offensive. I told him I would rather be told to “go to H*#L than be igonored !… he got the message. I got to challange him on the one thing that is the problem between us… his emotionally being closed up. You know what…he admitted that he has not felt close to anyone in 16 years! I was so right!….IT ISNT ME AT ALL! I shared the story with him that I posted about the man and woman in the dinner party and how he would not let her attend even though he had invited her…. he said wow that guy was demanding… I said that is how I have felt treated by you… you invited me into your life but have never let me in…. That is why you dont feel what you need to with me…. !!!!

    He thinks if I was the right one he would magically be open… wrong!… he has been with several women then and never felt it be right…HELLOO! so… I said the lie here is that you think you have to feel something in order to give… but the truth is we have to give something in order to feel. You invest nothing your get nothing… You reap what you sow….. His whole thing is.. he said he did not feel closer to me after we had been intimate. I said.. first of all we have never been intimate only had sex.. there is a huge difference.. Intimacy involves giving yourself to another, and is emotional… sex is two bodies involved in an act..period. I said every reason you have given me for it not being right for you with me has been a smoke screen to cover up the fact that you are not emotionally available. If you would trust again and open up.. you will find what has eluded you all these years. !!!!

    He said, everytime he talks to me that he has something to think about…and that I was a good salesman and a convincer… I stopped him right there.. I said…”I am only telling you the truth… if you feel swayed.. it is your heart and spirit that is bearing witness to it…… He came in saying goodbye and now says he will pray about it all and call me…. The kicker is, and this is the only reason I am lingering… is that I know that we are supposed to be together. (for reasons I will not share now)… I think he knows it too. Just damn afraid of it…. he left telling me I was beautiful..hugging me a long time… (I would not kiss him though… saw him to the door)….and not minutes earlier cold …. going on with his life.. “something missing in my physical appearance that was lacking for him. sigh… He can see all the women he wants.. he may walk away… he found something in me that while may not be “enough” for him… is damn sure a challange and worth claiming……He did say one thing I took as a huge compliment…that I am the first woman he has ever met that is not defensive, and that he has been able to open and candid with… I liked that! I knew I was different! lol

    I dont know what will happen with him.. but I got things off my chest and felt better… though I did not sleep well. I just want a soft place to fall and be held by someone who values and claims me. Sigh… emotionally involved on my end with him or not… I wait, search and cry too. The heart wants what the heart wants..

    Linda



  34.  #34Daria on May 4, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    This one guy I have been talking on the phone with is really validating my tools.

    I am telling him about how I felt insecure in so and so situation and am worried about what this girl thought about me and of course it’s minor as I don’t know her and I still felt weird…

    He says… wow its amazing how all the things that run through my head you are able to express so simply … i thought i was the only one who thinks of these things… and you just say them don’t even hide them

    And then I said yes Ihave always been like this not trying to hide things that I feel ashamed of and lately especially I am committed to expressing myself becuase it helps me love myself more to acknowledge my insecurities

    And he says… wow you know what if I were around you more a man could really fall for you… I said… oh… thank you … i feel a little concerned that you are saying you’re not really in love with me… and he says… I meant Helplessly and totally.

    I said hehe I really like that. (Helplessly… I love it.!! Hehe… oh the power of honesty).

    He says I feel so accepted by you.

    Yay!

    Go meee. gooo meee… I feel a little insecure that I am getting all my “game” from Rori, and at the same time I realize it’s one thing to read something and another to apply it… so it really is me doing this for me.



  35.  #35Linmayu on May 4, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Daria and Linda, HELL YEAH, what breakthroughs!

    I’m feeling overwhelmed by how HARD circular dating is. I can’t seem to keep more than one in the rotation, and having only one defeats the purpose. And I’m so fucking closed down, even with him, and I trust him, a lot. When I’m with him, my emotions are swimming around memories of my ex. It’s possible I’m just not ready to be out there, period, but then I wouldn’t know that withoug having ben out there.

    I want it to be easier, though. I want more decent men to be interested enough in me to get past the first date. Of course it’s impossible for that to happen when I’ve stopped replying to anyone online because I’ve been feeling pissy and cynical. I’ve built a wall 10 miles high that a guy would have to climb over to get to me and I’m surprised that no one’s on this side of it. Sigh…



  36.  #36Linmayu on May 4, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Daria and Linda, HELL YEAH, what breakthroughs!

    I’m feeling overwhelmed by how HARD circular dating is. I can’t seem to keep more than one in the rotation, and having only one defeats the purpose. And I’m so fucking closed down, even with him, and I trust him, a lot. When I’m with him, my emotions are swimming around memories of my ex. It’s possible I’m just not ready to be out there, period, but then I wouldn’t know that without having been out there.

    I feel envious of women who have a lot of men interested in them, though. I want more decent men to be interested enough in me to get past the first date. It feels so disappointing when they just don’t have enough passion in them to make it that far. And of course it’s impossible for that to happen when I’ve stopped replying to anyone online because I’ve been feeling pissy and cynical. I’ve built a wall 10 miles high that a guy would have to climb over to get to me and I’m surprised that no one’s on this side of it. Sigh…



  37.  #37Linmayu on May 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Oh D: I was hoping that first post with the typos wouldn’t get through…



  38.  #38Debbie on May 5, 2009 at 3:13 am

    I get that you are supposed to say no and stop doing so much for a boyfriend but what do you do when it seems they will do things for everyone else but you?

    One example; I like to text and we both have pay as you go mobiles. His phone credit ran out a couple of months ago and I asked him a couple of times to please get some so we can text. He would just make excuses why he couldn’t. He forgot or whatever.

    So then, this guy at works sends him a text message and asks him to text him back and of course he couldn’t because he didn’t have the phone credit. So he gets up early that Saturday morning and walks over to the store and gets phone credit so he can text the guy back.

    There are so many incidents like this I can’t count.

    What should I say to him about his seeming to not want to do things for me?



  39.  #39Robin on May 5, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Daria and Linda, thats AWESOME!!! I feel so happy for the both of you!!

    I’m feeling discouraged right now with Circular Dating 🙁
    I’ve gotten a lot of responses, but these men seem to want ME to come to THEM, instead of the other way around. All these men saying, “here’s my number, call me…” I’m actually feeling ANGRY now about it, Like “Men, STEP UP!!! What’s going on!!!!!

    I’ve written so many responses saying” It feels good talking to you, and I don’t feel comfortable calling men…”

    And I thought it would stop after I spoke the truth, but its still going some, and a lot of them just never call me after I say I don’t feel comfortable calling men..and I don’t want those men.

    One guy seems to only want to text…I really don’t texting..

    I was supposed to meet one for coffee last night, and the coffee shop was closed, so we went across the street to a restaurant. We had not talked before, only emails, and I didn’t feel relaxed (neither was he, he seemed very nervous…)

    I felt completely paralyzed when I tried to practice some tools and lean back…I found myself talking to fill up the silence, which practically NEVER happens, the men recently have been filling up that space. I enjoyed his company; we had a nice talk, we walked around after the dinner, when I finally did lean back and sink into the silence, he got weird and said, “Look, I’ve gotta go..”

    During the date I found out he lives upstairs from the coffee shop where we were supposed to meet…I kinda felt like an idiot..
    Another guy expected me to meet him at a coffee shop down the street from him at the drop of a hat. The guy I met Sunday wants to take me out this Saturday to a restaurant north of both us, but it seems like a considerable drive. He wants us to meet at the restaurant.
    I live in a suburb west of town, work in town on the weekends, but it just seems like these men suggest meeting for coffee, etc and its down the street from them, and when I get there, I find this out.

    Am I doing something wrong here???

    I feel afraid that Im asking for too much…That nasty voice keeps saying they’re not gonna stick around or follow through because Im asking them for too much…

    I feel afraid that if I stick to my guns and insist on this or that, that I will wind up alone…

    How do I turn this around?????



  40.  #40Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 9:25 am

    Mercedes/Flipper

    I felt confortable with your post and leanning back and the idea of ‘If I were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage stil on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing abou it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori mentions but he said: you atil being my fiancee, anything has changed, that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a sing I was commited to him as he was commited to me (he has shown that) and tha he expect every day to fix his issues (basicale unhappy with his carrear, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks he was very emmotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is really nice and sweet guy.

    The point is we finish our cnversation with his willingness to improve his scenario to move things and re-assuring me about his love. next day was ‘totally devoted to me’ like hugging and kissing me out of the blue and saying to himself: thanks God she stils here’ very appreciative. He asked me if I wanted to go out and do anything, invited me fo lunch and I just told him I wanted to stay home as I wanted to tidy up the guest room, he offered to clean part of the house and coocked a great pasta! He made everything to make me feel loved and cared for and he really did, but I still felt I had to stand by myself until I see some true action on his part. After a lovely day I feel the damage is done, I feel cheated and in a sad position and that I deserve better that sitting around waitting for him to be ready to claim me forever and do it with clear excitement in his eyes, this morning I decided no to wear the ring and I know he noticed as soon we left the house but didn’t mention until lunch time (we work together in the same comapny, different officce) whe he asked me ‘where’s the big rock’ I told him I feel triggered every time people in the officce congratulates me / ask me about our engament and our plans and all the yuki feelings meets on my stomach, he sais I can tell people ‘we haven’t decided yet’ and I replied that doesn’t matter what I say but what I feel wich is so much important to me as It feels like poison trough my veins to feel the dissappoiment and pitty of the place where we are stuck even when we love each other. I started to be read from my neck and my face and he asked, why are you getting red and I said that is my body signal of the painfull fellings everytime I confront this subject. I could seen him devastated, speechless, really affected. I asked, what do you think.. he started like I have a deadline for the wedding, he has no money right now, blah, blah,bla.. We had have this conversation and is not about money, it’s about you asked me to be your wife, I accepted, you told me whenever I wanted to get marry and at the same time you proposed Christmast time and I said yes and you didn’t follow trough so I won’t take it and about the ring I can’t fel it wearing at the same time you don’t feel excited about having me fo the rest of your life. He asked me what we should do as clearly I’m unhappy, I said I don’t know, then he asked ‘do you want to end the relashionship? I didn’t know what to say and he said ‘you don’t have to answer right’ now but he wants to know I what I want to do in order to feel better because he can’t do anything right now. Not what I wanted to hear, but

    The thing, what is the next step to follow besides Circular date without dating as he will ask again what I want to do and I don’t want to tell him, I want ‘you to do such and such’ because I know that’s not lean back… so girls… I need the follow through speech… Help
    t the other hand, he absorbs me, doesn’t give me space, offers to do everything for me as If nothing is happening, I mean he compensates a lot, HUGE time for not commiting to a wedding date and start the enginee in the savings. he plans, invites out, cook, sex, cuddling, attention to small details for me, all the stuff we all die for!!!! So, one thing is leaning back and another is rejection… Sometimes I don’t know when I’m doing one or another, how to say no to the sweet things when I feel hurt??? Because is discover this weekend that is where he makes me settle for less… like makes me forget the important deal for the so important little details of showing love everyday.

    Thanks ladies
    Symantha



  41.  #41Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Mercedes/Flipper

    I felt comfortable with your post and leaning back and the idea of ‘If I were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage still on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing about it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori mentions but he said: you still being my fiancee, anything has changed, that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a sing I was committed to him as he was committed to me (he has shown that) and that he expect every day to fix his issues (basically unhappy with his career, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks he was very emotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is really nice and sweet guy.

    The point is we finish our conversation with his willingness to improve his scenario to move things and re-assuring me about his love. next day was ‘totally devoted to me’ like hugging and kissing me out of the blue and saying to himself: thanks God she stills here’ very appreciative. He asked me if I wanted to go out and do anything, invited me for lunch and I just told him I wanted to stay home as I wanted to tidy up the guest room, he offered to clean part of the house and cooked a great pasta! He made everything to make me feel loved and cared for and he really did, but I still felt I had to stand by myself until I see some true action on his part. After a lovely day I feel the damage is done, I feel cheated and in a sad position and that I deserve better that sitting around waiting for him to be ready to claim me forever and do it with clear excitement in his eyes, this morning I decided no to wear the ring and I know he noticed as soon we left the house but didn’t mention until lunch time (we work together in the same company, different office) when he asked me ‘where’s the big rock’ I told him I feel triggered every time people in the office congratulates me / ask me about our engagement and our plans and all the yucky feelings meets on my stomach, he says I can tell people ‘we haven’t decided yet’ and I replied that doesn’t matter what I say but what I feel which is so much important to me as It feels like poison trough my veins to feel the disappointment and pity of the place where we are stuck even when we love each other. I started to be read from my neck and my face and he asked, why are you getting red and I said that is my body signal of the painful feelings everytime I confront this subject. I could seen him devastated, speechless, really affected. I asked, what do you think.. he started like I have a deadline for the wedding, he has no money right now, blah, blah,bla.. We had have this conversation and is not about money, it’s about you asked me to be your wife, I accepted, you told me whenever I wanted to get marry and at the same time you proposed Christmas time and I said yes and you didn’t follow trough so I won’t take it and about the ring I can’t fell it wearing at the same time you don’t feel excited about having me for the rest of your life. He asked me what we should do as clearly I’m unhappy, I said I don’t know, then he asked ‘do you want to end the relationship? I didn’t know what to say and he said ‘you don’t have to answer right’ now but he wants to know I what I want to do in order to feel better because he can’t do anything right now. Not what I wanted to hear, but

    The thing, what is the next step to follow besides Circular date without dating as he will ask again what I want to do and I don’t want to tell him, I want ‘you to do such and such’ because I know that’s not lean back… so girls… I need the follow through speech… Help
    t the other hand, he absorbs me, doesn’t give me space, offers to do everything for me as If nothing is happening, I mean he compensates a lot, HUGE time for not committing to a wedding date and start the engine in the savings. he plans, invites out, cook, sex, cuddling, attention to small details for me, all the stuff we all die for!!!! So, one thing is leaning back and another is rejection… Sometimes I don’t know when I’m doing one or another, how to say no to the sweet things when I feel hurt??? Because is discover this weekend that is where he makes me settle for less… like makes me forget the important deal for the so important little details of showing love everyday.

    Thanks ladies
    Symantha



  42.  #42Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Mercedes/Flipper

    I felt comfortable with your post and leaning back and the idea of ‘If I were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage still on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing about it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori mentions but he said: you still being my fiancee, anything has changed, that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a sing I was committed to him as he was committed to me (he has shown that) and that he expect every day to fix his issues (basically unhappy with his career, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks he was very emotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is really nice and sweet guy.

    The point is we finish our conversation with his willingness to improve his scenario to move things and re-assuring me about his love. next day was ‘totally devoted to me’ like hugging and kissing me out of the blue and saying to himself: thanks God she stills here’ very appreciative. He asked me if I wanted to go out and do anything, invited me for lunch and I just told him I wanted to stay home as I wanted to tidy up the guest room, he offered to clean part of the house and cooked a great pasta! He made everything to make me feel loved and cared for and he really did, but I still felt I had to stand by myself until I see some true action on his part. After a lovely day I feel the damage is done, I feel cheated and in a sad position and that I deserve better that sitting around waiting for him to be ready to claim me forever and do it with clear excitement in his eyes, this morning I decided no to wear the ring and I know he noticed as soon we left the house but didn’t mention until lunch time (we work together in the same company, different office) when he asked me ‘where’s the big rock’ I told him I feel triggered every time people in the office congratulates me / ask me about our engagement and our plans and all the yucky feelings meets on my stomach, he says I can tell people ‘we haven’t decided yet’ and I replied that doesn’t matter what I say but what I feel which is so much important to me as It feels like poison trough my veins to feel the disappointment and pity of the place where we are stuck even when we love each other. I started to be read from my neck and my face and he asked, why are you getting red and I said that is my body signal of the painful feelings everytime I confront this subject. I could seen him devastated, speechless, really affected. I asked, what do you think.. he started like I have a deadline for the wedding, he has no money right now, blah, blah,bla.. We had have this conversation and is not about money, it’s about you asked me to be your wife, I accepted, you told me whenever I wanted to get marry and at the same time you proposed Christmas time and I said yes and you didn’t follow trough so I won’t take it and about the ring I can’t fell it wearing at the same time you don’t feel excited about having me for the rest of your life. He asked me what we should do as clearly I’m unhappy, I said I don’t know, then he asked ‘do you want to end the relationship? I didn’t know what to say and he said ‘you don’t have to answer right’ now but he wants to know I what I want to do in order to feel better because he can’t do anything right now. Not what I wanted to hear, but



  43.  #43Tracy on May 5, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Robin,
    I feel the same way….this guy i was supposed to meet today just failed to confirm the meeting…I felt angry at first then i decided that i wasn’t going to check up on him but instead do something fun to feel up my time….
    so i got chatting with an old girlfriend of mine who is expecting a baby.
    I feel sad about my lack of progress in the circular dating field and i honestly haven’t met a single guy i’ve even felt the slightest attraction………but i feel different about it.
    I don’t feel hang up on the situation and i am focusing on practicing with future guys to come.Previously i would feel let down and beat myself about it and feel pity on my state of affairs but now,i feel confident that i just need to practice my tools more and anyone willing to enjoy my company is welcome……
    I feel grateful to Rori for helping me experience this…
    I feel comfortable with myself with or without a guy….it feels different and sometimes scary but definitely much better…..
    I feel the need for me to keep on circular dating and meeting more people and learning to feel though every single moment…



  44.  #44Daria on May 5, 2009 at 9:58 am

    Robin… ah yes… welcome to the world of Circular dating. I have found that this is what they Do. They mostly do it out of habit because they don’t know any better, and I’ve now started transitioning (after quite a few months of circular dating) into not feeling angry at them for “not stepping up.”

    I now clearly say I don’t like to text.

    I say, I don’t like calling men, I feel uncomfortable, it feels like I’m chasing a man and I feel weird…it would feel great to hear from you (so that I don’t have to worry about did he misunderstand me). Now saying this is quite a challenge however

    When they ask where do I want to meet them I tell them downtown near my area (very rarely do I meet them somewhere else). Last nite I actually felt so leaned back talking with a guy who’s been consistently texting me for a year (yes a year… sometimes he seems like a weirdo and annoys me, sometimes I feel amused)… I actually told him It would feel good to me to go to a nice restaurant, or have a drink or a juice or something else that would feel even better… I’ve never tried this before and would always get mad at the non-romantic suggestions they sometimes have… however I wanted to leave it open and not hold on to the outcome by saying ” or something that feels better…” this is the first time I’ve tried telling a guy what I like. I was not pressuring, just leaned back and sharing.

    Oh and by the way… don’t worry about the men supply. They keep coming! I remember Rori described it like “A river of men” they flow in and out our lives and we let them, and some of them are going to want to stay forever.



  45.  #45Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Mercedes/Flipper

    I felt comfortable with your post and leaning back and the idea of ‘If I
    were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told
    me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage
    still on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing
    about it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my
    feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend
    speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my
    boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori
    mentions but he said: you still being my fiancee, anything has changed,
    that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until
    he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a
    sing I was committed to him as he was committed to me (he has shown that)
    and that he expect every day to fix his issues (basically unhappy with his
    career, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that
    he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks
    he was very emotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is
    really nice and sweet guy.



  46.  #46Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Mercedes/Flipper
    I felt comfortable with your post and leaning back and the idea of ‘If I
    were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told
    me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage
    still on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing
    about it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my
    feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend
    speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my
    boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori
    mentions but he said: you still being my fiancee, anything has changed,
    that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until
    he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a
    sing I was committed to him as he was committed to me (he has shown that)
    and that he expect every day to fix his issues (basically unhappy with his
    career, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that
    he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks
    he was very emotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is
    really nice and sweet guy.



  47.  #47TW on May 5, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Hello ladies-
    How are you all? My LI called last night and asked me how my son was doing. He is sick. I said he is better and then he was like how are you and I was like ok because at the time I was okay. I really want to tell him hey look… You do not pay attention to me… You do not show me you love me… I need to be treated like a lady… I want to be made love to and feel your energy and love… I want to be wined and dined…. I just feel like he is making me sit and wait but wait for me. He was like I see myself building a life with you but he was not ready to get married. I was like no pressure but what do I do now?



  48.  #48Daria on May 5, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Symantha what do you mean that the speech didn’t “work.”

    The speech is not for an outcome. It is only to tell him how u are feeling, hear what he has to say, and if you have decided to circular date, to let him know about that (even though he probably wouldn’t like it).



  49.  #49TW on May 5, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Hey Daria….

    I just post right before you did so read it and tell me what you think.



  50.  #50Daria on May 5, 2009 at 11:48 am

    TW maybe gather up courage and next time he calls start with your feeling speech?

    Here’s what I would imagine:

    Him: oh and how have you been?

    Me: mmm well… I’m feeling angry at you

    Him: oh. Why?

    You: I expect to be taken out and romanced by a man I’m dating, and I don’t feel that’s happening here and I feel bad

    him: oh. what you mean romanced

    You: going on a date, out to eat would feel nice… I feel really weird talking about this… what do you think?

    Him: whatever he woudl say (be surprised… he might feel overwhelmed and say something like uhh I’ll call you back).

    We circular date to get our good feelings from other men, including wining and dining and maybe if sexual exclusivity is not an agreement then making love.

    all these You statements about him aren’t the way to go.

    What does anyone else think? Godesses?



  51.  #51Daria on May 5, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Ok heres me tryng to talk to guy whos having a baby…

    This would be if he calls me:

    Him: Dee, whatsup… how have you been

    Me: Oh wow I feel so glad to get a call from you

    Him: chuckle.. oh for real?

    Me: yeah I missed you

    Him: oh yeah? I miss you too… hey you know what… can you blah blah do something for me?

    Me: I feel angry. I don’t want to do stuff for u, I feel furious.

    Him: you are trippin. what do you mean?

    Me: I feel furious not hearing from you for so long…

    Him: Well you haven’t been calling me

    Me: I’m feeling abandoned as a friend and it feels BAD

    Him: well im feeling abandoned too I dont hear from you at all

    Me: I …

    Ok at this point I am really feeling furious right now and just like in real life I feel “speechless”

    HELP SOMEONE? This is pretty important stuff

    Maybe I could try:

    Me: I’m feeling upset and shaky right now and I’m having a hard time talking. I feel like this is very important and I’m glad I got to even tell you this much, and I need some time to get myself together… I hope to hear from you soon. CLICK.

    What do you guys think?



  52.  #52Liz on May 5, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Rori, I was just reading your eNewsletter Toolfrom today about Opening Him Up. Can you explain a bit more about this, especially why it’s okay to ask what he THINKS/WANTS. thanks….

    “Stop yourself from asking him what HE’S
    feeling. (It’s always okay to ask him what he
    WANTS, or what he THINKS… but asking for FEELINGS
    is very, very different.)”



  53.  #53Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    I’m feeling shaky and I feel like I’m not quite “getting it right.” I feel so glad I got to the “shaky speechless feeling” just practicing, because that’s exactly what happens in real life…

    What do I do? Do you think that hanging up is a good way? or what?

    Help anyone this feels very important…

    I forgot I would be feeling that “speechless” “numb mind feeling”



  54.  #54Robin on May 5, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Daria, I totally agree that including ‘you’ statementsw or referring to something he does is not the best approach.

    TW, I would be friendly on the phone, don’t shut down, but if you are feeling angry, there’s no way you can hide it, and its self-destructive.

    If it were me, I would go with something + too, like “you know it feels good to hear from you, but the truth is I feel ignored, turned-off, angry, annoyed, rejected, sad, etc..when men don’t call me back, when I’m made to wait, when Im stood up, etc…, and I don’t want to tolerate that, do that, etc…

    You could even say what you mentioned, “It feels good…but the truth is I feel like sometimes I’m waiting around and that doesn’t feel good, and I don’t want to do that…”

    Rori says the truth is always what you want to go with, and its so HARD sometimes; I know I get scared that Im gonna step on some toes, and I KNOW the truth, its just getting it to come out of my mouth that’s challenging…



  55.  #55Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Hey Robin that sounds really goo!

    You know it feels good to hear from you and the truth is I feel ignored and abandoned and I feel angry

    I could start that right off the bat…

    Now it would feel great to get some help with the “deer in the headlights feeling” that comes up… where my mind just goes blanky blank as it happened in my PRACTICE speech (it was just practice and it still happened) above?



  56.  #56Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Liz I too was suprised to find out we can alwasy ask a man what he WANTS…

    I’ve been avoiding that so to avoid being in “his business” and also because I don’t want to fall into catering to his wants…

    I feel like I missed something this whole time…



  57.  #57TW on May 5, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Robin-
    OMG!!! IT is like you are reading my mind or something. Is it okay to send what I am feeling in a text or something or should I wait until he calls. It is kinda stirring in me right now andI would feel a lot better if I could get it off my chest.



  58.  #58TW on May 5, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Daria-

    Mee too. I am always wondering what I can do to make him feel better but what about me?



  59.  #59Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    TW I feel very strongly that it is CRUCIAL to wait until he calls…

    That way he is showing interest in hearing your feelings. Sending it in a text is basically pushing him away with your feelings.

    How can you say “it feels good to hear from you” in a text you send… UNLESS he has just texted you… in which case it would be a RESPONSE and feel ok

    The feminine strength we want to demonstrate is being able to embrace those “stirring feelings” even when they are bad, and STILL lean back. That is the kind of strength that makes him feel safe with us… and he will feel attracted the stronger you are and the more you are able to live with your bad feelings without leaning forward. (BTW you might find taht after practice a woman has a much greater capability of embracing these feelings than most men… thus is why they feel safe with us at a deep level)



  60.  #60Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Girls,
    I had problems trying to post si I did it incomplete earlier on (yes! there’s more read :-]

    Mercedes/Flipper

    I felt comfortable with your post and leaning back and the idea of ‘If I
    were you’ thing and after our last hart-to-hart conversation where he told
    me how he was feeling (scared, unsure, etc) but he loved me and marriage
    still on the table but he doesn’t feel like moving forward (do nothing
    about it) and I told him how I felt (I’m getting very good expressing my
    feelings in ‘feeling messages’) and tried to gave the him ‘no girlfriend
    speech’ but didn’t work, I started like I feel I need to raise up my
    boundaries…… and try to embrace some of the ‘grey area’ that Rori
    mentions but he said: you still being my fiancee, anything has changed,
    that he hasn’t changed his mind about marry me, we just need to wait until
    he feels stronger to move forward and with the engagement ring it was a
    sing I was committed to him as he was committed to me (he has shown that)
    and that he expect every day to fix his issues (basically unhappy with his
    career, shadow of his failure in his marriage and as he said himself that
    he started to get access to know/found himself thanks to me and he thinks
    he was very emotionally ‘inmmature’ even when he wasn’t a bad guy, he is
    really nice and sweet guy.

    The point is we finish our conversation with his willingness to improve his
    scenario to move things and re-assuring me about his love. next day was
    ‘totally devoted to me’ like hugging and kissing me out of the blue and
    saying to himself: thanks God she stills here’ very appreciative. He asked
    me if I wanted to go out and do anything, invited me for lunch and I just
    told him I wanted to stay home as I wanted to tidy up the guest room, he
    offered to clean part of the house and cooked a great pasta! He made
    everything to make me feel loved and cared for and he really did, but I
    still felt I had to stand by myself until I see some true action on his
    part. After a lovely day I feel the damage is done, I feel cheated and in a
    sad position and that I deserve better that sitting around waiting for him
    to be ready to claim me forever and do it with clear excitement in his
    eyes, this morning I decided no to wear the ring and I know he noticed as
    soon we left the house but didn’t mention until lunch time (we work
    together in the same company, different office) when he asked me ‘where’s
    the big rock’ I told him I feel triggered every time people in the office
    congratulates me / ask me about our engagement and our plans and all the
    yucky feelings meets on my stomach, he says I can tell people ‘we haven’t
    decided yet’ and I replied that doesn’t matter what I say but what I feel
    which is so much important to me as It feels like poison trough my veins to
    feel the disappointment and pity of the place where we are stuck even when
    we love each other. I started to be read from my neck and my face and he
    asked, why are you getting red and I said that is my body signal of the
    painful feelings everytime I confront this subject. I could seen him
    devastated, speechless, really affected. I asked, what do you think.. he
    started like I have a deadline for the wedding, he has no money right now,
    blah, blah,bla.. We had have this conversation and is not about money, it’s
    about you asked me to be your wife, I accepted, you told me whenever I
    wanted to get marry and at the same time you proposed Christmas time and I
    said yes and you didn’t follow trough so I won’t take it and about the ring
    I can’t fell it wearing at the same time you don’t feel excited about
    having me for the rest of your life. He asked me what we should do as
    clearly I’m unhappy, I said I don’t know, then he asked ‘do you want to end
    the relationship? I didn’t know what to say and he said ‘you don’t have to
    answer right’ now but he wants to know I what I want to do in order to feel
    better because he can’t do anything right now. Not what I wanted to hear,
    but

    The thing, what is the next step to follow besides Circular date without
    dating as he will ask again what I want to do and I don’t want to tell him,
    I want ‘you to do such and such’ because I know that’s not lean back… so
    girls… I need the follow through speech… Help
    t the other hand, he absorbs me, doesn’t give me space, offers to do
    everything for me as If nothing is happening, I mean he compensates a lot,
    HUGE time for not committing to a wedding date and start the engine in the
    savings. he plans, invites out, cook, sex, cuddling, attention to small
    details for me, all the stuff we all die for!!!! So, one thing is leaning
    back and another is rejection… Sometimes I don’t know when I’m doing one
    or another, how to say no to the sweet things when I feel hurt??? Because
    is discover this weekend that is where he makes me settle for less… like
    makes me forget the important deal for the so important little details of
    showing love everyday.

    Thanks ladies
    Symantha



  61.  #61TW on May 5, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Daria-
    Some days I ask myself why did he tell me that he wants to build a life with me but can not show me the same. I told him that I did not want him to see other women and that I did not want him sleeping around and he promised me that he was not but his actions are making me think differently. I mean why does he not spend real time with me or why does he not call me everday. There was once a time where he called me 3x a day or more. Sent me flowers for no reason. Met me for dinner or would do anything to spend time with me. I do not know what happened and I feel taken for granted all the time.



  62.  #62Robin on May 5, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    TW-
    If it were me, I would wait, but I LOVE the idea of writing a speech-I’m totally with Daria!

    When I feel like expressing my feelings to (my ex) but he’s not right in front of me or on the phone, I find something on my Channelling List to go do.

    I’ve done the opposite, and made up a *reason* to call him, like ‘hey I forgot such and such’, and I have ALWAYS regretted it later, and felt like I was leaning forward, and it makes me feel desperate.

    Daria, yeah I KNOW that feeling you are talking about, its like you lose your confidence. I always worry Im gonna piss him off, ruin the moment, and I always go how do I handle THIS situation. I get SO SCARED, like with these guys going “call me”, or “hey there’s a restaurant across the street from my house, let’s meet there.” I feel scared that if I stick to my guns he’s gonna walk, if I insist on this or that, I will wind up alone.



  63.  #63TW on May 5, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Robin-
    I feel the same way too. I feel like I am going to push him away with all the emotional stuff. I think in the end I may want to walk away as well. I do not know what to do. I am tryig to watch Modern Siren but I can not get into it because my mind is all over the place. I guessI am going to have to wait until a time when I am ore relaxed to watch it so I can put the tools to work instead of waiting for the situation to get even worse than what it already is.



  64.  #64Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Ok TW those are all you in your head and thinking about him. (which by the way is pushing him away because it’s hurting your vibe). Asking yourself anything about why he did this or that is being in your head about him…

    It sux. I know the thoughts. Try riffing until you get to a good feeling… have you tried riffing?

    Riffing means you look for the feeling, not the thoughts, although its ok to write the thoughts too every now and then… and then tell the feeling you love it… and then notice how that feels ….

    for example

    I feel tense right now in my forehead right shoulder and upper lip and side of stomach… and I LOVE my tension… and that feels like relaxing and breathing out… and I love my relaxing and breathing out… and that feels like overwhelming feeling in my abdomen… and I love my overwhelming wave feeling… and that feels like a little smile and I love my little smile… and that feels like smiling bigger… and I love my big smile… and that feels like a weird giggle through my nose and I love my weird giggle through my nose and that feels like me laughing lightly and I love my light laugh and that feels like tension in my chest and I love the tension in my chest and that feels like a weird tightness in my throat and I love the weird tight feeling in my throat and that feels like my armpits feeling tight and I love my armpits and that feels like feeling scared and leaning back in my chair and I love my fear and I love my leaning back and that feels like feeling tense in my tummy and my mouth and i love the tension in my mouth and tummy and that feels like a closing my eyes and breathing deep and I love my closing my eyes and breathing deep and that feels like yawning and I love my yawn,, and that feels like a little smile…

    OK. I know this may not “make sense.” It does WORK … Try it



  65.  #65Robin on May 5, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    OH I just remembered though, when you feel scared Rori says to love that feeling, and really embrace it
    I imagine myself busting through a brick wall like a superhero, to represent busting through my fear after I love on it for a while 🙂

    Daria, Thank you, I forgot about leaning back in the MIDST of the bad-feeling ones, and how that creates safety, and you have LOVE the feeling at the same time.
    …yeah, this really takes PRACTICE



  66.  #66TW on May 5, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Daria-
    I am going to try riffing and being in my thoughts for a while and I will post a little later.



  67.  #67Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Robin… ok so you think that feeling of stuckness is fear…

    in that case I could say:

    Me: I’m feeling stuck and terrified.

    Him: what? terrified of What? geez you are acting WEIRD.

    Me: I’m feeling really bad and unheard.

    Him: I’m tired of all this I feel i feel stuff.

    Me: I feel tiny like a little mouse, and I feel awful and vulnerable and weak.

    Him: well you’re ACTING vulnerable and weak. You’re not a wimp like this

    Me: i feel stuck. I’m feeling bad.

    Him: Man… uh look can I call you back?

    Me: ok.

    Ok that doesn’t feel fun. That would be like one of my “what I’m afraid of” as far as his answers.

    I don’t feel accomplished or good. I jsut feel small and not gotten and ashamed and bad about myself.

    HELP…



  68.  #68Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    I’m feeling triggered and spinny and dizzy. I feel stuck because really I don’t feel empowered imagining the above speech… what am I missing?



  69.  #69Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    You know… if I don’t like what he’s saying to me, I’m gonna just fuckin hang up!

    I felt really inspired to use the f word up there.

    I could just say, I’m feeling bad, and I don’t want to tolerate feeling bad… maybe we can talk about this later… bye



  70.  #70Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Daria,

    You are right, when we express our feelings we don’t do it to get an outcome, I mean it didn’t work because he couldn’t understand my point, I tried to explaint some of the gray area of circular dating under an excluive relationship but I couldn’t pass my point across 🙁
    well, In the complete version of my post I explainit better.
    Regarding expressing fellings when we are angry sometimes I feel that I’m over-expresing, mostly If I’ve been repressing from communicate openly to that person so becomes messy when I open my mouth and Ive not sort out my mind 🙁 so I know how it feels and would like to have a light on that one as well.



  71.  #71Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Its just that either HE’s really subtle about making me feel bad… or I’m really lost and don’t get when I’m feeling bad.

    Even in real life he’l do stuff that slightly makes me feel bad, yet attracted.

    For example we’ll be hanging out at his friend’s house and he’ll be like… oh I gotta go real quick. And leave. and then I’m like wondering like oh is he going to come back, etc… I feel more “attraction” or Craving for him…

    or else he’ll like… sometimes wait to say hi to me until he’s said hi to other people, but then say hi totally nicely.

    and you know what I am realizing he does this stuff ON PURPOSE.

    He should freakin teach one of those pick up classes. He’s good at making me feel craving for him. Which is fine because I like feeling attracted. HOWEVER I don’t like feeling bad.

    So I really want to be in my feelings. And I want to start leaving FIRST.



  72.  #72Daria on May 5, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Symantha in my experience and from what I heard from Rori in a “serious” situation (and I should probably just reread my own advice) it IS messy. It might not get resolved in one conversation.

    Also I doubt he will actually be Ok with your circular dating. It’s kind of something that will make him feel Not ok.. and then he will step up if he can.. to Change it.



  73.  #73Symantha on May 5, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    TW
    what aboy making an appointment with him next time he calls you?
    Like he calls to nonsense and you tell him the truth, like I don’t feel what do you want when you call me so I feel annoyed and I would like to share how I feel, what do you think?
    So you have set a pourpose and asking him time for you, an appointment, instead of start with all the feelings and rage starting coming out and him saying ‘you know you are crazy can I call you later?’
    If that very moment he says no to you (when you ask for a time to speak) you ask him, when do you think is a good time? and you take it from there… If he says right now, the better and you will be more relaxed because you will feel like you don’t need to crash a wall with your feelings to make him to listen to you. Is that leanning forward? I heard that from Rori if I understood well… So coming from there, that he is listening is from a place of power… I hope 🙂



  74.  #74Mercedes on May 5, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Samantha: I’m not good with the speeches so I’ll let someone else here answer that question for you.

    Where I’m concerned, the key is my happiness. I never tell a man what he can do to make me happy. I tell him I’m not happy and I do what I can to make myself happy…he’s welcome to come along for the ride, but the happiness comes from within myself.

    As I said, I would be uncomfortable wearing the ring unless we were moving forward. If he’s not comfortable moving forward then…well…I’m not happy about that so I’d figure out a way to make myself happy. If my bf’s question to me is “Do you want to end the relationship”, my answer would certainly be “No”…because that wouldn’t make me happy either. So? What would make me happy? Well…taking the ring off until I KNOW it symbolizes my future with him would sure help (again…that’s me and may not be you). He’s calling it a symbol of your willingness to commit to him. That’s wonderful but…that’s not an engagement ring. It’s a committment ring. Two different things in my book…but again…please understand…I’m talking about how I would be in your situation…not necessarily how YOU should be in your situation.

    Then…I’d let him know that he doesn’t need to do anything different to make me happy. That I will take responsibility for my own happiness (I actually said this to my man once – or a million times – and I posted my story about it all on my blog). I’d let him know that I want to drop the subject of marriage until he’s ready for it. That the whole thing stresses me out. That I’m much happier when we’re not pressuring each other to be something he’s not ready for. That I’m not exactly “waiting” for him…my options are open and I’m not wearing a ring that tells the world I’m engaged when I’m really not…that I want committment with marriage, not just with a ring that symbolizes it. That I will not be having sex with anyone else (it sounds to me like you are in a sexually exclusive relationship with this man and that you love him and – although many women on this blog don’t agree with me on this point – I think that’s enough to be sexually exclusive). But…that I intend to enjoy my life and I’m taking out the parts that stress me out. Right now…I’m stressed about being “engaged” but not getting married. Therefore, I want the two of us to be happy together and I think we can be happier if we’re open to seeing what the future holds for us (with or without each other) and at the same time, we stop telling people we’re getting married.

    Your situation is probably not as cut and dry as that for YOU though…because I don’t want to get married, I probably wouldn’t have the same emotions tied to it as you do.

    Sorry I’m not more help…there are lots of ladies here who are really good at feeling messages and “no girlfriend” speeches…I’m not the one for that…I’m really much better at the “no wife” speeches..LOL

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  75.  #75Liz on May 5, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Daria, I feel anxious too about the real-life potential of having the Him/Me exchange you describe above.
    i’ve also felt panicked in a conversation when i’ve said to an ex “I feel attacked” when he says something mean and he has come back with “oh, so now you’re accusing me of attacking you”…and I feel triggered that it’s coming across/being heard as an accusation and not an expression of how i’m feeling. although, maybe that’s more about him than me?!?!?



  76.  #76JNB on May 5, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    Hello, I am new to Rori’s website. I recently acquired “Modern Siren” after having read “How to Get the Relationship You Want”. I’m in a committed relationship with a man I’ve been seeing for nine months who I’ll be moving in with in June. Things are going very well. I’m in no rush to get married since I just divorced from a ten year marriage in December 2007. Living with my boyfriend is exactly the level of commitment I want right now.

    I became interested in Rori’s material because I was worried about the issues from my failed marriage coming up in my new relationship. My ex husband and I were terrible at communicating with each other and the resentment between us was so strong that it ruined everything. Now that I have learned the tools, I can see we had begun wrecking our relationship from the very moment we got together. (My ex might even be considered toxic, but I haven’t researched this part of Rori’s ideals yet). I overfunctioned, resented him for it, and then completely shut down emotionally.

    I became so depressed, I didn’t just want to leave the relationship, I hoped my exhusband would die because I could handle feeling THAT instead of wanting to die myself! That’s no way to live! And worst of it all, I was showing my daughter that this was what love/marriage was about… being miserable, disconnected, and full of anger, resentment, and guilt.

    What I found most interesting about Rori’s tools is that because I hadn’t initially been interested in my current boyfriend when I first met him, I unintentionally treated him the way Rori explains is the way to hook a man. I dated other guys because I wanted to. I let my BF do all the carrying of the relationship because I wasn’t emotionally invested in him. I let him call, text, drive to me, and be responsible for creating interesting dates. And then when I’d spent enough time with him (which was entirely due to the fact we had so many mutual friends) I realized he either already was the sweetest, sexiest man I’d ever met, or he decided to become that man just for me. That’s when I broke a relationship off with a fellow who I’d been crazy about but who’d I’d later learned was playing me (and I was WAY overfunctioning with him!!), and two other guys I’d superficially dated. I realized I was head over heels in love. It’s been a struggle to not overfunction and to keep leaning back, but I didn’t want to change what was already working with my boyfriend… and my relationship just keeps getting better! It makes so much sense after I read and watched Rori’s materials. I feel like a queen when I am with him. I have never felt so loved.

    Now my focus is on allowing myself to be vulnerable and authentic with my boyfriend, which so far he has responded very favorably to. I find when I work hard at finding what my truest emotion is, I learn so much about myself, things I wouldn’t have given the time to learn if I wasn’t doing it for a higher purpose. I’m learning that when I feel anger, that it is triggered as an initial reaction to fear. And then when I tell him what I feel SCARED by and not WHAT I’m angry about, he does what he can to comfort and reassure me. I have never felt anything so intimate and honest. I feel myself growing as a woman. I have never felt so happy… EVER. I never want to have a relationship again where I swallow my pain and resentment. I want to feel free and confident always, like I do now.

    This article on being in touch with my feminity and romancing the world is exactly what I needed right now. I can practice being a Goddess without negating my commitment to my most wonderful man.

    Thank you, Rori, for helping me along my path.
    ~J

    PS. Let this be an example of what can happen with that guy you have in your Circular Dating rotation that you think you don’t feel much for. He might hang in there and prove to you what a real man can be!!



  77.  #77Rori Raye on May 5, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Dear JNB, Welcome and thank you so much for your gorgeous letter – you are an inspiration for all of us here and I’m just so thrilled for you… love Rori



  78.  #78Robin on May 5, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Daria, Yes, I agree that that doesn’t feel fun.

    I’ve had exchanges like that with my ex, and now Im noticing that sometimes less words are better.

    Im totally with you, though, if a guy started making me feel bad, I would get off the phone. I would say”I don’t like hearing this, I don’t want to hear that, and I feel like hanging up now.”

    I have found that if I use the word ‘you’, like “I feel bad when you say that'” or if I use a word like insulted, disrespected, dismissed, anything that reflects what SOMEONE ELSE did to me, it doesn’t work-so I’ve had to move away from those, and say “I feel hurt, I feel angry hearing that, unheard, turned-off, irritated when I don’t get called back, when Im stood up, when Im made to wait, etc”, or “I feel second-class when I wait around, and I don’t like feeling that way. I’ve been experimenting and thats what I’ve come up with. Id love to hear what others ahve come up wit.



  79.  #79TW on May 5, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Rori and ladies-
    I have a tendancy to call my LI all the time and it is blowing up in my face. I did not call him yesterday and when he said he was going to call me back I did not call when he did nto call. I have not contacted him all day whether it be by text or anything else. I do not know what to do. He tells me that he loves me and wants to be with me but does not step up and give me the commitment that I want and need. What am I doing wrong?



  80.  #80Deena on May 5, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    TW, I know you don’t want to hear this as it is a bit of tough love but this guy has been dragging you along for years hasn’t he?

    He has been lukewarm for a long time. If he is ever going to step up, he is going to have to miss you, really miss you. You are always right there contacting him, doing things for him; all the while accepting each tiny crumb he throws out.

    Like in the other post where Rori tells Regina to end it with this guy she’d been with for years and he ended up wanting a FWB type thing, I think that is what you’ll have to do in this case.

    He already thinks he has you hooked. You haven’t required him to do anything else.

    Symantha, I also think you need to be strong with your fiance and not accept any excuses from him. Some guy will give their girl a ring as a stall tactic to get them off their back about marriage for awhile. Don’t accept this from him. If there is no wedding date and plans, there is no engagemen;t simple as that.



  81.  #81TW on May 5, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Deena-
    You are so right. I just need my own space and time to deal with me. I am in the process of looking for a therapist now to sort my whole life out because I am a pleaser.



  82.  #82JNB on May 5, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Symantha, I have this story for you. It is a true story.

    I had a girlfriend who was dating a guy and the relationship was not progressing at the speed she wanted. The fellow said he wasn’t sure he was ready to get married, but she pushed for an engagement anyway. She pushed and got the ring. Then she pushed and pushed to get a wedding date. Then right after they were married, she wanted a family. He said he wasn’t ready to have children yet. Still she pushed and pushed. And even though he wasn’t ready, she came up pregnant and had a baby. She thought everything was fine, that she had only helped him move his life faster in the direction he wanted. But really, it was no surprise to me when within five years he left her for another woman. He did not choose his situation. She forced him. She took his power away from him.

    Who’s to say what would’ve happened if my girlfriend had let her exhusband lead the relationship? Maybe they would’ve gotten married, maybe they wouldn’t have. Maybe they would’ve stayed married, maybe not. But do you want a successful marriage, or do you just want to be married? Pushing is another form of overfunctioning (right?). A man is supposed to be your partner. You should be walking with him, hand in hand, at the same pace…. if anything, he should be leading you, which puts him in a position to protect you.

    I hope this helps.
    ~J



  83.  #83Linmayu on May 5, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    I feel like I need guidance from the Christian members of the community. I think everyone knows my situation but I’ll tell it again with its most recent twist. I’m currently separated from my husband of 6 years, for the past 6 months. The marriage was pretty much a roller coaster from hell for the last year before we separated–though really not so bad before that. The divorce is proceeding full speed ahead. I’m struggling with deep feelings I still have for him–and I’ve recently begun to feel it’s important for me to fervently pray for the outcome I want for the marriage (which is to come back together and do it “right” this time around). When I had been “working on the relationship” I tried every damn thing except 1) leaning back in any way whatsoever and 2) prayer.

    So, I’m doing those things now–but I’m also seeing someone else. Up until now I’ve felt completely justified in seeing this person because my husband has seemed utterly dead set on divorce. But if I’m bringing God into the situation, I feel that changes things. Is it still adultery when I for all practical purposes have no husband? I am feeling that perhaps it is, and perhaps I need to stop doing it. After all, I don’t need any men in my rotation if I have God on my side.

    And yet, the last thing in the world I want to do is to crawl into some sort of obedient slavery to someone who isn’t loving me. I feel that marriage in its own right is holy and worth preserving, and I have not yet done everything in my power to revive my own–but I don’t want to become a groveling worm to do it. No one’s going to stop me from continuing to pray, even if the outcome doesn’t end up being what I want (so don’t even try). But I feel so conflicted about the circular dating I’ve been doing. One side of me is saying “it’s a SIN, and even THINKING about doing it would be a sin!” And the other side of me is saying “it’s necessary, and it shows love and caring for myself, and there’s no way I can ever have love in my life unless I get out there and do it!” I’m not seeing a middle ground. What do you think?



  84.  #84Flipper on May 6, 2009 at 6:24 am

    Linmayu, I was raised in Christianity and still feel associated with it. For me, Sin is Not synonymous with anything you like or want to do, and even less what you Need to do to survive And thrive. Some of the biggest values in that religion are Forgiveness and Tolerance, and in its early days at least, it was far more favorable to Life-enhancing feminine values and ways than anything else at the time.

    How can circular dating be considered in this context? : it’s learning the ropes for how to develop very intimate relationships with other human beings, mostly male, through self-discovery and honoring oneself, a child of God, honestly and respectfully. Men and women have to learn things in order to lead the God-given life they embody , And they are free to make their own decisions about the way the divine would wish that to be. You have stated that you are not looking for a new committed relationship, and also that for you, sexual intimacy is out of the question, so you are not ‘guilty’ as far as possibly impure motivations go by seeking out interactions with men. What’s left? Learning, practicing, honoring the most profound aspects of yourself and others, so that you can actually carry out your highest potential. Should your ex-husband be the one who is meant to benefit from that, that will happen and you’ll be ready to keep it going. If not, you’ll also be ready for whatever else will happen.

    I can feel you struggling with all kinds a contradictory teachings, suppositions, and MOST of ALL YOUR OWN FEELINGS – all that excruciating Pain for your loss (losses – of partner, love, self-esteem, innocence, time, etc ad infinitum) – one of the deepest and longest lasting losses a person has to endure. Perhaps, (due to old patterns – rightly or most likely wrongly imposed by abusive ‘authorities’), somehow underneath you feel that punishing or depriving yourself will ‘make it better’, i.e. atone (on the surface) vis-à-vis the deity and others, and most of all, Take the Hurt Away from poor, suffering Linmayu. To heal from the hurt is probably just what to pray for, along with inner peace, and leave any punishing to the One who has that prerogative.

    It is not a sin to lead a human life in a human way, using the faculties we’ve been endowed with (such as seeking happiness and especially cultivating our feelings) to do that in a good way. It probably would be to ascribe a divine value to self-imposed sacrifice. Feel your faith – In loving sistership, <3



  85.  #85Mercedes on May 6, 2009 at 6:49 am

    Linmayu – You’ve touched on a subject I am passionate about so I’ll read this a hundred times and make sure it doesn’t sound like I’m preaching to anyone out there. If it does, please, please disregard the whole thing…I don’t want to preach to anyone…but…I have worked for years as a volunteer religious education teacher working with teenagers…so…I tend to get opinionated.

    In my classes, we all said a prayer before we left and if anyone had a specific prayer request they wanted to say out loud, they could and we would all pray for them. I had a rule though…nobody could ask God for a win at the game on Friday. I told them that the other team is praying for the same thing…not really fair to put God in that situation. But…what they could pray for is God’s will…they could pray that they did their very best and did everything in their power to help with that win (including practicing hard)…and they could pray that they would be ok if they didn’t win.

    So for you…can you pray for God’s will in this relationship? Can you pray that you do everything in your power to become the right woman to handle the relationship again? Can you pray that if it doesn’t work out, you learn the right lessons and that you are strong enough to handle it?

    I know this blog isn’t about us “doing”…but…when it comes to some things (and I think I’ve posted about this in other places and Rori tends to disagree with me on this point) I think we need to do something sometimes. It’s like praying “God…please don’t let me get hit by a car” but then not moving our butts out of the street! I don’t know what to suggest you do…but…maybe a really good feeling conversation is in order so that he knows you’d like to give it a try. Maybe him knowing how much you’ve changed…I don’t know. It’s hard to do that without sounding clingy but…letting a marriage go when you’re not ready to let it goes seems wrong to me as well.

    As far as whether or not circular dating is a sin…well…I have no opinion and will not judge. But…(and here’s where lots of people will have a different opinion probably) I think you should stop. Not because I think it’s a sin…but because it’s impossible for you to be open to another man while you question in your own heart if what you’re doing is the right thing. I’ve read so many of your posts where you ask what’s wrong…why can’t you open up…why can’t you be in the moment with a perfect man in a perfect situation. I think the answer is: You can’t because in your heart you are questioning whether or not it’s a sin. For those of us who are spiritual, that’s not a question we take lightly. It’s a serious question that can weigh heavily on our hearts.

    I want to tell you that you are not alone though. I am Catholic so I have a lot of struggles when it comes to my decisions matching up with my beliefs. In the Catholic church, my marriage will always be valid. In the eyes of the church…even though I am divorced (civil) I will never be divorced according to God. I pray that God understands me and that he was looking down on that day I said “I do” and already knew it wasn’t the right thing to do. I pray that he understands I was very young and that neither of us knew ourselves well enough to be making that committment. But…the teachings of my church…and what I teach to young people is that my marriage is valid and anything I do outside of that is a sin. I’ve made decisions that go completely against that…and those decisions are ones that I will live with for the rest of my life. I love my bf very very much…I can’t imaging life without him…we belong together…we’re soul mates…and I can’t regret him. So…I pray…I pray that God understands and I pray for strength.

    I don’t know how much any of this helps…I do know I feel good about saying it.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  86.  #86Linmayu on May 6, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Thank you Flipper and Mercedes. Every time I’ve talked to him about it in the past, or mentioned anything that I feel, it’s been stony silence. I’ve been very distant and leaned back for 6 months and he doesn’t contact me except to talk business. So, I feel afraid to talk to him, even though you’re the third person who has recently suggested I do that.

    I’m also quite aware that God’s will might in fact be for us to remain apart. I’ve asked Him to change everything in me that needs to be changed and make me the woman I need to be. It feels quite harsh to think about the possibility that I could be bound to someone in God’s eyes for the rest of my life, yet without ever being able to experience love and affection again. I had a meditation the other night that suggested something to that effect–that I’m now like a Hindu widow, someone untouchable, someone that no one else will want, who has no choice but to go into a convent for the rest of her life. This contradicts with other meditations I’ve had where it’s suggested that someone will eventually come for me…so I feel confused and lost.

    I like the reference to Feminine values. In an orthodox masculine religion, women ARE lost if they have no husbands, and devalued if they somehow become unmarried after having had sex. I’ve been feeling devalued lately and I definitely don’t want to feel that. I don’t think any Divine being really wants me to feel that, even though the teachings of my youth whisper out seductively to tell me that only suffering is God’s will, and the more you suffer, the better you are.

    All I know is that it seems time for me to reconcile my relationship with God–and let that be the priority over other relationships.



  87.  #87Mercedes on May 6, 2009 at 8:28 am

    Linmayu: Those teachings are harsh…and as I said, I live with them and struggle with them everyday. It’s hard on my heart. I have chosen to be happy and to experience love and to be ever so grateful for what I have. I struggle with…if this relationship of mine is somehow wrong, then why didn’t God send him to me long ago? Maybe because I wouldn’t have been the right person for him long ago? But…I do feel that he is a gift from God to me (how else do you explain the perfect union between us?)…something this right can’t be wrong…or so I hope…and I pray…

    My relationship with God needs a lot of work too…but…that’s the hard part for me. I cannot leave my religion for something that better fits my decisions. I’ve been Catholic all my life and it’s in my heart and soul. I don’t belong anywhere else…yet…I can’t go through the Church to get closer to God because…I know the teachings…I know what any priest would tell me. I know already what I will hear so it does no good to ask.

    I’m grateful to have found you. I’m grateful for your post. I feel a lot less alone…regardless of my decisions or yours…I feel good knowing someone out there understands my struggle. My family understands the struggle…they just disagree with the decision. That’s hard. “Meeting” someone who understands the struggle without the judgement…well…Thank You.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  88.  #88Rori Raye on May 6, 2009 at 9:21 am

    Debbie, welcome and thank you for your great question. The thing is, your man is simply not motivated to take care of you. The first thing I obviously would want you to consider is circular dating.

    In order to inspire him and ignite this relationship — I know you will get lots of help here, and I believe strongly that if you use the Modern Siren tools and the basic tools from the e-book you will turn this around — you will have to deal with this exclusivity “girlfriend” thing that is keeping you from getting what you want.

    It’s strong on the inside and soft on the outside — and using every single interaction with every man you meet that will shift the energy in your relationship. I know you can do this. Love, Rori



  89.  #89Rori Raye on May 6, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Nelia, Welcome – and that’s a great question. And the answer is just fear. We’ve been taught to be afraid to have options. It’s old. This is where old-style feminism can help you – if you put feminine energy to it. Love, Rori



  90.  #90TW on May 6, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Debbie I just read your post. My LI does the same thing. He call call or text everyone but me but let him need something then he has TW on the brain. I just stopped calling him.



  91.  #91Robin on May 6, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Linmayu, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have been Catholic my whole life and feel it is a precious part of who I am, and felt so called by it that I now work there.

    I have had debates w/ co-workers over whether self-esteem and confidence is Biblical, and my feeling is that self-esteem is CRITICAL, and not only is it Biblical, it is a necessary part of ministry and evangelization; its one thing to be self-confident, and it is quite another to be arrogant.

    To that end, circular dating is OK! Rori mentioned that circular dating is something to continue even if you are married. I would definitely start by dating yourself, and taking very, very GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF. The goal of circular dating has to be to HEAL yourself and raise your self-esteem by using the tools out in the world on men. Circular dating for you at this moment could be simply flirting with men, if dating men doesn’t feel comfortable yet.

    I feel very strongly about not sleeping with men, partly because of religious beliefs, so I definitely identify with you, but also because I know I can’t handle that. I know that for me to level the playing field with circular dating, I can’t sleep with any of them. So if you KNOW you won’t be sleeping with them, then simple coffee dates will be chances to practice.

    The belief that you can only marry once in God’s eyes not completely iron-clad in the Catholic church anymore. You could certainly go to a priest a approach him about getting your marriage annulled if it comes to that.

    At my lowest points in my life, I threw myself into ministry, I prayed to God to reveal His will, to order my steps, to guide my down the path that He has for my life. I completely agree with Mercedes about the prayers. Definitely ask God for guidance, ask Him to order you steps and reveal the path He has for your life. Pray for peace, ask Him to speak to your heart. Often when things start changing in our lives, the hand of God is at work and what He has for us id FAR BETTER than what we could ever imagine, but we have to trust that He’s not gonna let us down( He never has and He NEVER WILL) , that’s what having faith is all about.

    I also feel strongly that you have to watch and fight, in addition to pray. To me that means, going out and doing what you can. Like finding this you ABSOLUTELY LOVE to do and doing them, connecting with hobbies and projects you feel very passionate about, getting hooked up with a strong support system at a church (Ministry groups are my favorite-God LITERALLY used ministry to save me after a very traumatic experience), and maybe even a singles group if your church has one. Taking care of yourself and LOVING yourself, practicing Rori’s tools, and keeping your eyes open for God’s magnificent power.

    God can move mountains in the blink of an eye, and He’s moving in your life right now, continue to stay strong, watch, fight & pray…Praise Him right through this storm…its passing over..

    You know we will be praying for you too!!



  92.  #92Tina on May 7, 2009 at 2:07 am

    Dear Rori,

    I receive your emails and read them faithfully. I will buy your e-book one day soon. I would just like to share this story about my experiance I had tonight. I experimented with your honey jar imagery Wow!.

    My “boyfriend” is away until friday, he called me, as per requested, I said to him, ” I would feel really unhappy if you didn’t call me then expect me to free up my time for you on the weekend. During the telephone conversation I asked him what he thinks about me going to a karaoke night with some friends. He said that he did’t think it was safe for me to go to a bar for obvious reasons, safety for one. I told him yes, I see your point however if I did choose to go, that I would go with some friends. We have been dating exclusively for 1 yr and a few months. This is not the issue for now. It is more about circular dating. I did go out with a friend of mine to karaoke night but first we went to a birthday celebration. She brought her brother along, it just worked out that way. He is much younger , I am 42, he is 31. Very handsome I might add. Men were at the party of all ages, shapes and sizes. One man even forget to offer his girlfriend a seat and sat right next to me (I felt angry at him.) I laughed during one of the speechs and all heads turned in my direction, he did say something funny and I was feeling kind of silly with thoughts of honey in places I wont mention here. (Rori you have created a monster lol.)

    I was intrigued by your honey jar imagery. I tried it and stayed and felt the honey oozing out of my pores and down into my pelvis, at times the honey was a bit cold nonetheless, it was still honey.

    My friend and I proceeded to the karaoke event with younger man in tow, he was very attentive all night , asking me if I was hungry, thirsty. I did some leaning back (not entirely sure but I think I did enough.) I am not a great singer so long as I hit at least one note lol. A few men friends showed up and sat with us, still more were looking in our direction (for most of the night.) It was my turn to sing a song keeping in mind the honey jar image , I started to sing. A man started to praise my singing with clapping and such, The men friends at our table started to get agitated and I could literally feel a fight was going to break out. The younger man who was paying special attention started to get in fight mode. His back was up and he leaned forward almost standing. The men sitting with us were doing the same thing, Yikes!. The tension lasted about a minute. I received a lot of compliments for my singing and thanked all of those men lol personally when they expressed themselves to me. They came one at a time.

    Later on that evening , on our way home, I expressed to our group how I felt about a situation that happened earlier in the day, that I felt disrespected about something trivial. My friends brother immediately fixed it. My friend dropped me off at home, when I got home a message came up from a man that I know, he wanted to borrow something from me. He lives just next door, normally and my first thought would be that I would bring it over but this time I said to him, “I assume your coming to get it , He did, we talked for a few minutes about his music , he talked about his job and other things. He said ” you have a nice place here” I said thank you and that I was grateful for what I have. He stood up, sat down, stood up again. By this time I completely forgot about the imagery and was more curious about what he was doing. We said our goodnights , he left.

    I didnt date anyone, however I do feel a guilty pleasure almost sinful. I also have this image of being in a shell and snapping it shut at times, only opening up a little for my hand to retrieve a few of my things. I really do need to get your ebook lol.



  93.  #93Flipper on May 7, 2009 at 5:19 am

    The Catholic nun Sister Emmanuelle, amazing woman and humanitarian, who died recently and many consider pretty saintly, has written some rather unorthodox, deeply spiritual and deeply feminine stuff that may be a comfort and inspiration to those on this quest.



  94.  #94Mercedes on May 7, 2009 at 6:22 am

    Robin – I’m not sure Linmayu said she was Catholic…that’s me…and I don’t want to get an annulment because I have two children by that marriage and I have no desire to say the marriage didn’t exist. It did exist and those children were created in a real marriage…it just wasn’t right or good. But…that’s a personal decision and just because I struggle with my decisions and how they align themselves with my church doesn’t mean I would change anything. As Rori says…we need to feel what we feel…I feel the struggle and embrace and love it. After all…I wouldn’t want to be in a place in my religious life where I didn’t care enough to struggle with my decisions. God and I have come too far for that.

    Flipper: Sister Emmanuelle was a great woman who accomplished a lot of good things. She and I differ on her views that the Vatican should change some dogma. I align myself with the Vatican where my beliefs are concerned and she fought it. I would have loved to have met her…I’m sure we would have had an amazing conversation. As you said, she is unorthodox in her teachings and I prefer to strive to follow the dogma that exists today…again…that’s personal to each of us but I would have loved to discuss with her.

    We all struggle in different ways. Some struggle financially, some with relationships, some with work or school, etc…my struggle is with my actions vs my beliefs. And that’s okay…we all make it through…I’m strong and confident and happy…and when I get the opportunity to talk to God about my life…I’m sure I’ll plead my case with typical Mercedes logic. 🙂

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  95.  #95Linmayu on May 7, 2009 at 9:55 am

    I’m not Catholic, though my ex is, and there are other Catholics in my family including my mom’s boyfriend with whom she is “living in sin.” I was raised Lutheran, came back to it in my twenties, and have since then pretty much considered joining every religion on the planet–though if you look strictly at the years, I’ve spent more time as a confirmed atheist than anything else.

    It wasn’t so much a belief that there is no God, as a belief I developed at a very early age that God only wants to hurt and punish me, so I don’t want anything to do with Him. I’m sure this came as a direct result from 1) cruelty and racism that I experienced throughout childhood and youth at the hands of a seemingly endless stream of people who all called themselves Christians and 2) my parents’ teachings (unintentional, I’m sure) that I am inherently bad and that God’s sole function in my life is to punish me for being who I am.

    It’s hard even now to really feel the possibility that God could love me and actually care for me. It’s very hard to feel any kind of faith, though I want to and sometimes I do. And I don’t really know what to call myself and not make myself a liar. I don’t buy religious fundamentalism or the belief that this one book is the only source of truth in the entire universe. I’m only beginning to open to the idea that Christianity, if it is true and not just something constructed to control the masses (and I do believe there’s truth in the faith), may in fact trump everything any other religion has to offer. I can’t stand evangelism when it’s thrust in my face. I don’t like a holier-than-thou man beating me over the head with religious have-tos. I don’t like how easy it is to become a hypocrite out of strong desire to put on a good face for God and people. And I really, really hate any suggestion that followers of all other religions are destined to burn in hell for eternity. I suppose what all this really makes me is an imperfect human just like everyone else. 🙂

    I love the visual of Mercedes talking back to God, too. 😀



  96.  #96Robin on May 7, 2009 at 10:22 am

    YES, there’s not ONE of us who is perfect. There’s no shame in being imperfect, and our “mistakes” are part of what make us who we are…

    Rori says we are not allowed to beat ourselves up..this is one of my favorite things about what she teaches…



  97.  #97Daria on May 7, 2009 at 10:33 am

    I was born Eastern Orthodox Christian. What this meant for me was a beautiful magical church with gold and silver inside, and huge and beautiful colorful paintings like a secret castle and sanctuary. Where we hush and are quiet entering, and it is dark, and feels sooooo sacred and aweinspiring.

    It meant that there were rituals sometimes where we ran under tables, where priests wearing beautiful colored robes spun with gold sang songs I usually couldn’t understand, where we would cross ourselves three times generally when the people around us did. Where old women with scarves on their heads would come and sometimes cry on their knees. Where we would get yummy nut pomana to honor someone dead and light candles for them. Where I would carefully cross myself before entering and exiting the church and would try to exit backwards so I didn’t not face the altar.

    That meant my grandma said with me a prayer everynite and that I still say to this day.

    It meant a calendar on my grandmas kitchen wall with different saints and holidays for each day. It meant a bible I read on my own for fun. It meant my great uncle was a priest and his wife my great auntie cooked yummy food and he had lots of books about orthodoxy.

    That at certain times there were fasts where we didnt eat any meat or animal products for weeks, and thus changed all the recipes, which we chose to follow if we wanted. Even when I moved to the US, although I never had before, and my parents didn’t, I started practicing the fast of my own accord for a couple years, because I wanted to get back in tune with the rhythm of the calendar and the religion.

    To me I felt that I had my own way to God. I always felt specially protected. My grandmas house had huge beautiful paintings of angels, of the birth of Jesus, and these covered the walls of my room. In her room was a picture of Jesus entering Jerusalem and I studied all these pictures, painted by my other great uncle, very carefully.

    I always felt special and protected by God. I didn’t believe much about God punishing me, and as I grew older less and less. I decided not to believe in sin. I was interested in stuff that other people might feel afraid of, that they said God can punish you for, like magic, etc. I know God does not punish me because I believe I can talk to him whenever I want. I believe in his unconditional love. And so I turn out to be very interested in magic, plants, healing, etc… I always have been terrified of ghosts so I prayed to God to never let me see one unless I am totally prepared and actually expressly and honestly ask him for it. And he’s protected me. In fact he generally has answered all my prayers.

    I until recently only asked God for Big Stuff, and for protection for those I loved, because I didn’t want to interfere with what I might not understand was best for me. But after talking with some people I’ve recently felt that it’s ok to ask angels for help in everyday affairs. Even simple things like getting somewhere on time. I ask in my mind, hear the angels answer, and feel glad. It has been working consistently for me.



  98.  #98DocK on May 7, 2009 at 10:45 am

    I was raised Catholic, went to parochial school for 11 years, then was a Jesus Freak (don’t mean to offend anyone with that label – that’s what it was called in the 70s), then was an atheist, and finally came back to god on my own terms and practice a spirituality that honors all paths (even atheism).

    Although I was raised with some views of god as a punishing god, and hell and sin and some ideas that I am supposed to judge people who choose to love differently and so on, none of that felt like truth to me.

    I believe that there is a power for good in this universe and I have access to it. I believe more in consequences than sin, that we cannot control anyone else’s behavior but our own. I believe when I don’t like how a relationship is going – I pray for healing but not outcome. I know what it is that I want to experience in a relationship with a man and I believe the universe supports that.

    As with my ex, I don’t want harm to come to him and if he has found someone else, good for him. I have released, I feel, peacefully in spite of his past behavior. I do, however, pray for healing of our relationship in whatever way can bring peace to my life which means – he finds his way to release me as well, peacefully.

    We all experience loss of a loved one from a relationship break-up differently and process the stages of, I believe, grieving for that loss differently. It’s much more than time that helps us get through that, it is loving ourselves, romancing ourselves, surrounding ourselves with people we enjoy, doing things we love to do, celebrating our passions. I feel that it is in those moments that I find I forget my hurt for at least a moment here or there and then those moments become bigger and bigger and more often of knowing that I am on that bridge that Rori speaks of and nothing can keep me from having the loving relationship I deserve (we ALL deserve – even my ex).

    I know everyone doesn’t experience healing the way I do but I know that once I have fully released that person, that past relationship, my heart is really open and has created space for something new. that’s just how it goes for me and i celebrate the way everyone here has shared their view of relationships, god and love and healing.



  99.  #99Linmayu on May 7, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Daria, I feel so moved by your description of your religious background. I wish everyone’s upbringing could feel so beautiful and holy. I certainly wish mine did–my memories of church involve being woken up with yelling because we were always pressed for time, being forced into my dress and getting a comb ripped through my ever-tangled hair, being teased by kids at Sunday school, and then having to sit still in a pew and getting pinched every time I talked or fidgeted too much. I didn’t feel a lot of holiness there, only a sense of duty and imminent punishment thrust upon me.

    But I remember how excited I was to get my first Bible. I was only 8 or 9 but I read a great deal of it. I felt moved by the account of the creation of the world and how all those people in the ancient times lived as long as 900 years. I loved looking at the maps and the pictures of holy sites and common objects that were used during biblical times. And I felt terrified by the account of the end of the world, how destruction was going to rain from the heavens and plagues and evil would be released on humanity.

    I also feel compassion for my parents, it can’t have been easy to get three willful, stubborn little girls who’d rather be playing outside to sit quietly in church every Sunday.

    Daria, like you, I don’t believe that magic is sinful–it is just another form of prayer to me. And I’ve recently felt incredibly comforted by the idea that negative thoughts, fear, doubt, and hopelessness ARE sinful. I grew up thinking those things were God’s righteous judgment on me and I had no choice but to live with them or die. It feels so much better to be able to confess them as sin and ask God to take them away.

    I just wish I knew whether God wants me to fight for this @#$^# marriage or to let it go. There’s still a lot of unclarity within me. It felt easier on the outside back when I was saying “to hell with him,” but it also felt inauthentic because I was really unwilling to hear what my true feelings were–I wanted to just force myself to instantly be over him and move on.



  100.  #100TW on May 7, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Hi guys…

    I am going to try to catch up with all of your post and respond shortly. I can not go on the site at work anymore and it is too much to say via text sometimes. Anyway, my LI called me yesterday and he playfully calls me his secretary. Well long story short I said I would prefer you call me something else and he said what… I was like maybe start with my name and he asked me why it upset me so much and I told him that it made me feel as though I was providing a service for him. He asked me what was wrong and I said that I am frustrated. He asked me was he the source of some of my frustration and I said yes. I did not have time to tell him why right then but when I got off the phone I sent a quick text and told him that I feel as though he only calls me when he needs to know something and otherwise we do not talk. He did not call back any more that day and I did not cal him either. I also have not called or text all day today either and I am going to be occupied reading all of your post so I will not have time to be bothered with him. Anyway, I applied for some jobs online which I have been scared to do for a long time and I am getting very good responses but by e mail only. No one has called me for an interview yet but they have said I have been recommended for one to the employer. Has anyone ever applied for a job online. This one is on yahoo jobs.



  101.  #101Rori Raye on May 7, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Tina, Welcome and thank you for your gorgeous story. I so love that honey image and I feel thrilled that it works so powerfully for you. I believe this relationship with your “boyfriend” will get clear very soon. I also think you’re going to hear from your friend’s brother. Just tell him the truth, if he calls, as you would tell ANY man, that you are seeing a man “exclusively” and yet feel very good with him and will let him know if anything changes for you.Love, Rori



  102.  #102Heather on June 1, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Hi there!

    I have been dating a man for about 2 months now. He pursued me to no end and so I said yes. He is so fun to be with. I don’t feel shy, or bad, or sad, or the feeling like I have to defend myself to him. I can laugh and speak outwardly to him.
    I like this man; but due to my past I would have to say that I protect my heart right now.
    Even though he and I are dating; he still has feelings for an ex. (that’s why I protect my heart); but I am also doing the circular dating thing.
    If a man asks me out to coffee; I say yes. I may make a friend; get ideas about something; laugh; or a possible mind blowing spark. I may find the right guy in the whole process.
    So I agree with circular dating. I am at the point in my life that even though I am liking this other man; I see more potential for myself; and WELL; THERE IS NO ring on my finger and no conversations about being exclusive!
    I shall Date onward!!! And have fun…and keep myself open to all sorts of good things!