Controlling Isn’t Where It’s At

Untitled design (14)

neckingcoupleThe Question:

“Rori, I was inspired by just your newsletter about surrendering. I have been raised to be strong and in control and seems that that has rolled into my relationships and ultimately destroyed many of them.

I even have people tell me I am to controlling in relationships as well.

My question is, I have fallen madly in love with really who I believe is the man of my dreams..finally.

This was a fast paced relationship with all the right things going for it. Communication was our strongest suit. Anyway, one day he just didn’t call or tell me why he needed space. Confused still, I think I took to much control away from his life and he freaked.

How can I let him know how I feel and that I chose to change and express my feelings without running him further away.

I want to change, I need to change and I chose to make a difference now for us. How do I approach him with this request to try again?

Thank you and I look forward to being less of a controller and maybe a better person for everyone, Janet”

 My Answer:


This is step one in becoming less controlling, and it’s an incredibly challenging one. You have to give up your need for closure.

You have to step way back, have faith that he will come to you (many visualizations for this) and then, when he shows up, you just ARE different.

Being surrendered instead of controlling isn’t just something you turn on one day.

You have to practice. 24/7.

Just like learning an instrument.

Please do the exercises in the book round-the-clock. They’re not things you do when you have an hour here and there – you do them for 10 or 15 seconds all day long (especially the Toolkit ones, which are crucial for this part of the process) and the communication skills you do with everyone, everywhere, all the time.

I know this is frustrating, it feels helpless. And you are taking a huge first step forward in your life by leaning and stepping BACK.

Sincerely, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 18, 2015 at 7:19 am

    aiyayai giving up control. Even with closure.

  2.  #2Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Feminine W
    yes, I have actually Not had closure with a couple of bf’s
    and one time – on YOUR recommendation (thank you)
    I waited 5 weeks until he was ready to talk to me…
    He then opened up and told me
    all kinds of loving wonderful things he loved and missed about me… so nice to hear…
    BUT He was very mean and had a nasty temper and wielded his $$$ like a sword…
    I said no thank you…

    BUT with Spirit… the pattern that I have seen over the past 10 months is SO apparent…

    It is important for ME to say NO MORE to this relationship EVEN if he came running back and begged ME…
    UNless he said he would see a counselor with me for 3 months – I’ve actually even thought about it… :-))

    I WANT to give ME the opportunity to use MY
    New skills I have practiced with Spirit
    of being able to handle MORE intimacy
    More open hearted and vulnerable ME
    With a MAN who *IS* able to do a relationship!!!

  3.  #3Millie on May 18, 2015 at 10:25 am

    I kind of wonder in Janet’s situation above why she assumes her being controlling was the reason he left, if he just stopped calling without telling her why. I mean we can assume it was that… But do we really know. And ironically, isn’t it still in “control” mode to want to reach out and tell him she’s changed? If she really changed, she would not feel the need to control or lead the situation. Am I right??

  4.  #4Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Millie, you’re right. I remember for the longest time Dominique told me that wanting to reach out and fix the situation was controlling, masculine energy, but I found it incredibly difficult to get past and stop doing. The way I see it is that men come into our lives to deliver messages – Janet being controlling may not have been the reason her man left, but it was the catalyst that caused her to want to change.

  5.  #5Azure Blu on May 18, 2015 at 10:55 am

    Indigo… #4
    Nice… good point!

  6.  #6Beloved on May 18, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    I must must MUST remember to lean back and not try to “help” for “fix” when TG talks to me about job hunting….!! Oy!!! It feels CHALLENGING as heck to keep my mouth shut and not make “suggestions” when he’s talking to me about taking a crap job that pays just over minimum wage.
    Not my business. Not my business. Not my business.

    Gritting teeth….breathing….lean BACK, lady! Back it on up! Beep! Beep! Beep! (That’s the sound of me backing up…, lol).

    As for ME…well….my first interview for an internship today felt GREAT. It feels like an amazing opportunity and I feel like I have an “in”, they already knew about me from a mutual friend who highly recommended me. They have other interviews and said they wanted someone in the position in a week. If I could get that position, PLUS the tech position at school during the week, I’d already be IN my new career, just a year into school with a year left to go.

    I feel amazed. Ohh….the weekend job is at a megachurch that is very progressive and a will be similar to doing lighting for rock shows, ha 🙂 At least, in one building. In another, it will be more “folk”. Too much fun. It feels incredible that all of the things I was believing are actually happening and unfolding. I feel a little stretched thin…I actually posted a distress call on FB asking friends if they could loan me some gas money to get through the next couple of weeks. I’m going to just let my phone get cut off rather than borrow money from my mom – I feel that is the right thing to do. Borrowing money from my mom just feels WRONG and if something else doesn’t work out that’s ok. I have a Google voice number that I’ve given out to pertinent people so…yeah. Just going to ride it out.

    I got this.

  7.  #7Millie on May 18, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Indigo that’s a great point! That men come in to our lives and act as a catalyst for change! I love that

  8.  #8redbutterfly on May 18, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    I have some exciting news!! The widower proposed to me in March and we just bought a house two days ago!!! For those of you who followed my story and gave me advice, thank you. I don’t frequent this board much anymore but there was a time when I looked at it everyday and it completely changed the way I dealt with men. Sometimes I have to pinch myself to find out whether I am dreaming or not because everything worked out perfectly! I have a beautiful house on the lake, a wonderful daughter about to graduate in a couple of weeks, a new job and the perfect man who is gentle, kind and he absolutely adores me. I couldn’t be happier. Thank you, Rori and the great community on this board!!!

  9.  #9Dominique on May 18, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    redbutterfly – It feels so lovely hearing from you after all this time AND better yet, hearing such wonderful news. You’re awesome!!!


  10.  #10Zia on May 18, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    redbutterfly – yay!!! what a wonderful story!

  11.  #11Millie on May 18, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    So In Leigha Lake’s book she says 99% of men come back. I’m not sure how this statistic is measured but my cousin just told me a story of how a man tracked down a woman he had dated 10 years ago. They hadn’t spoken during that entire time, but after reuniting– he asked her to marry him and dumped the girl he was with! I was like– wow!! After 10 years!! I guess you never know when a man will decide he’s ready!!!

  12.  #12Femininewoman on May 18, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    redbutterfly that is just lovely

  13.  #13Zia on May 18, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    Millie #11 – well my track record of “men who have come back” sits firmly at 0% so far 😉

  14.  #14Lovergirl on May 18, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    In my experience, men always come back. Ive had guys show up at my grandmothers house, 10 years later looking for me. More than one guy has done that, actually! My first ever boyfriend that broke my heart showed up years later asking me to marry him. Even my ex husband threw out a line, asking if I would ever consider getting back with him. Uh, nope. Too late. They are always way too late.

  15.  #15Mandy on May 18, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    I can definitely dig this article. Giving up control feels SO good to me. SO SO SO good. Like freedom and fresh air and fresh water and cool soothing things…

    I say relish the good feeling of the freedom or try to feel your way into it. Just breathing and holding no tension in your body and just letting go and then maintaining the fluidity of not grasping or clinging onto words or feelings, just floating, bobbing along on the bottom of the beautiful briny sea…

    I am a very can-do, masculine woman, so I take charge all the time, especially when I’m frustrated something won’t get done. A lot of the times I have to dial the “can-do” back a notch and let a guy take care of me. I have to practice switching hats and choosing to be melty and easily moved emotionally. Sometimes it’s a dress I’m wearing that allows me to feel my way into it, sometimes a song, maybe a hot shower or a great eye-makeup job done in the mirror when I wake up. I just feel fancy-free and like a very sassy and put-together woman.

  16.  #16Mandy on May 18, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    Update on the CDing…

    Well I can’t believe this Sirens, but my attention is off J.

    G is now promising me a lot of things. He wants to take care of me. He is also telling me how he’s been holding all this back for many years…we’re talking at least a good five years he has held this back. He is so attracted to me it isn’t even funny. All he can think of is showing me a good time and stealing me from J, as he puts it.

    I don’t see G as a guy who is not easy to work with. He wants his woman to put on a sexy dress and some heels once in awhile, and compared to my own situation, my God, that’s sounds wonderful. He doesn’t ask for much, he is high functioning and he doesn’t have a crappy attitude. It does help he’s super hot to me…I’ve always been so driven that way, almost more than a man…if someone has the whole package, brains, common sense, happiness and the hotness, it’s like I can’t keep my hands off.

    I just talked to him for a few hours and I know I have a pattern of behavior. I went to Rori to break it, and I am wondering if it has been broken yet.

    I think the Sirens will be able to tell me…I trust that you will if you notice. Some things are SO hard to hear when you’re in a situation, but one thing I’ve worked hard to get better at is HEARING thing I don’t want to hear.

    But also, maybe coming to the board and having good things to say about how rightly I’m being treated by a different man, etc.

  17.  #17Indigo on May 18, 2015 at 9:08 pm


    The only thing I would be concerned about is, is G still with his girlfriend? Or is he free and able to be with you?

    Also, I know it feels wonderful to be noticed and desired like that, and you absolutely *should* soak up the attention, but remember guys say ALL kinds of things in the beginning. Please don’t invest yourself, not for a long time.

  18.  #18Millie on May 18, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    Mandy– I don’t know your pattern, would you like to share? Or do you want to see if anyone else picks up on it?

  19.  #19Millie on May 18, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    Btw I have three dates this week! I’m following what feels good! One of the guys, Guy C, who I seem to have chemistry with through email asked when I was free so I gave him two options. He chose the first but said he also wanted to watch the game so he would pick a restaurant where he could also watch it!! I was floored… Was he serious??? I just replied– oh, no… I would rather have a first meeting where your attention is not divided, so go ahead and enjoy your game! He replied with “fair enough” and offered to get ice cream or coffee afterwards. I felt a little icky that he tried to double book me with the game– but I’m going to interpret it that he wanted to me as soon as possible and also didn’t want to miss out on his stuff. Later works better for me anyway, so we will see how it goes. That’s tomorrow night. Thursday night coffee date with Guy B. When he first started messaging me I thought he was Boring with a Capitol B, but he kept on asking me questions and kept thinks going when I slacked off. His questions were also very respectful and I got the sense that he really wants to get to know me, he’s not looking for the “wrong” things, I.e get in my pants. Some guys really have no game. But back to him, he called me which I also liked and asked me to the coffee date. I wanted to suggest drinks instead, but then I said to myself– how about trying to get to know someone without the influence or comfort of alchohol? So that will be a new one for me, usually drinks are always involved. Guy A I went out with last Saturday. He’s nice, I actually had fun! I’m not too attracted to him, but like M was, he’s all up on my grille with texting good morning, goodnight, and during the day. He also called me and wanted to stay out later sat night and see me Sunday to which I said no to both in a nice way. He asked to when he could see my next and I said the weekend, so he agreed but hasn’t made official plans yet. He’s nice but I’m hesitant because he is younger, lives with his mom still, and his last relationship reflects some lack of boundaries. I really like asking and hearing about men’s last relationships. I think hearing their tone about it is really telling. I also like to ask what they would have done differently or what they learned. I know those are pretty loaded, but imagine the range of answers you’d get!!! Guy A was dating a girl who was 21 and did a lot of drugs. Apparently she kissed another man in front if him and he forgave her… Which led to cheating on him, breaking up with him suddenly, and getting with someone else within a week. He admitted to being needy, to wanting to be in a relationship, and overall seemed to not have an understanding of why he picks women who cheat. (There were more before this girl) He is 26 so maturity could be why… But I’m just observing.

    Stay tuned for the Millie’s CDing adventures!

  20.  #20Mandy on May 18, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    Millie and Indigo,

    Thank you for your listening skills 🙂

    My pattern is as Indigo described..I fall fast and hard and invest myself right away. That’s my problem. I get into situations where I end up at the person’s mercy.

    Thank you Sirens for caring, you don’t kno whow much it and hugs to you!!!!!

    And I will tow your advice Indigo! 🙂

  21.  #21Emily on May 18, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    Hi Rori.
    I am a follower of your work.
    I have a question that I hope you can answer.
    Your work helped me find the man of my dreams.
    I did all the tools. He fell in love with me. And he won me over. I gave a chance to something different than instant attraction. I felt peace with him and I think LOVE grew in my heart for him.
    TO be honest he was devoted to me.
    He is a true good man. And still is. Thank you so much Rori for making me see, with your tools, that good man exist. And that sometimes instant attraction is not as good as love that develops over time.
    We are both 24. But I felt he would be with me forever. Because he is so good to me and love only grows for him.

    I had issues and worked them through as good as I could.
    But still I fail.
    I know it is mostly me that has traumas inside. He is satisfied with giving me love and receiving from me hugs affection all those feminine things. He is a very simple man. I am the complicated one. He only wants to give love.

    We were together for 2 years until Friday.
    He said my dogs were too much for him. We were having fights about my dogs. The fights to be honest are about him not doing what he doesn’t want to do. If he says no there is no way of changing his mind. And I feel it is not fair in a relationship. THAT turns on my anger inside.
    So he left. I know it was not only about the dogs. I was controlling and often times when i didn’t have it my way would explode with rage.

    Now since he left we have been talking. AND i found out that a day after we broke up he was online trying to make friends with other women.
    I confronted him and he said he was ashamed but that I had basically ended the relationship.
    I understood that part and believe him.

    Finally my question is…should we be back together, can it work if it hasn’t worked before?
    I feel a lot of peace Rori when he is not here! SO much that it scares me.
    He says he needed space.
    But today he comes to me and tells me.
    “I love you. And you are the only woman I want to be with. I do not need other women in my life but you.
    I do not need to have sex with anyone but you”
    I believe him and I am amazed that a man like this exists.
    But why is there so much peace in my heart when he is not around?
    I am afraid of my anger If we live together again.
    I am afraid of the arguments. But I need and want companionship.
    I guess I love receiving his love but my trauma doesn’t let me love him fully.
    WHAT can I do Rori, With all the anger inside?
    Can me and him live in peace?
    When in the past he wants to have it his way?

  22.  #22Femininewoman on May 19, 2015 at 2:42 am

    Mandy you get to decide how fast or hard you fall. Be like your own observer then decide to pull yourself back. Also remember when there are several guys clamoring for your attention there is no need to rush into anything.

  23.  #23Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 3:27 am

    Millie 19,

    I feel very impressed by your observations of the different guys who are asking you out. And I agree, asking about a guy’s previous relationship and how he talks about it, and the girl, can tell you a lot about him. If I had only paid more attention to a guy’s answer to that question I would have avoided several unavailable/immature guys. But it was all good practice in the end and each experience taught me something valuable. Enjoy your dates!

  24.  #24Mandy on May 19, 2015 at 3:30 am


    Sounds good. I have been just dying to be single and able to choose! 🙂 I miss that…it was so much fun before I met J!

  25.  #25Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 3:31 am

    Also Millie 12,

    About guys coming back. I would say about 70-80% of my ex-boyfriends came back at some stage in some form. But, as Lovergirl said, if they are not the right guy for you, it is usually too late. Even where they’ve said they’ve changed, there is not one instance where I’ve been tempted to take back an ex. If he was a real contender for my heart, he never lost touch to begin with. I’m not saying it’s always like that, but time tends to reveal all things.

  26.  #26Sangelina on May 19, 2015 at 4:19 am

    Talking about guys coming back..
    my ex husband who I had dated as a teenager (18yrs) came and found me at 25yrs, after he had moved to a different country. Funny that the issue we broke up over as a teenager (womanizing) was same issue our 10yr marriage broke down over.
    We tried the marriage again after 1 yr separation but he was even worse, despite swearing heaven and earth while trying to get me back that he had changed. He hadn’t changed at all, just found more creative ways to conceal his activities.

    My first childhood puppy love of 3yrs (met him at 15), mostly pen pal and no sex interactions came looking for me when he decided to marry. I was 22 and with someone else and not interested.

    A few ex b/f returned to my life a year or more after break-up but they became friends.

  27.  #27Sangelina on May 19, 2015 at 4:30 am


    From the last thread, I liked many of your comments. You are showing signs of growth and I’m sure you will gain a lot from here as time goes on.

    Glad you enjoyed the birthday celebration and you appear to be adjusting your expectation.

    I never thought Chicago was a better option, just felt that your shifting some of the current laser focus on S to him might help you deal with the intensity with S.
    He probably knows that you don’t care for him and are just tolerating him. People can sense that. Is it perhaps contributing to how he acts or reacts towards you.
    Keeping your heart unzipped a little longer and continuing to practice your tools on him might yield a different result. He is just practice at this point.

  28.  #28Rori Raye on May 19, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Emily, Hi – you sound very aware of how much farther you can go to understand yourself. Fights are the hallmark of not knowing how to communicate. And before you can communicate, you need to know where YOU are – what you’re feeling, how that’s going through your body – and you need to have enough self-control and maturity to make “choices” rather than simply “acting out.” Demanding that a man “do” what you want him to do is not a realistic place to be coming from – and though I’m sure he enjoys your “fiery” temperament, he is not comfortable with the constant intensity of your feelings. This is all, then, about you.

    We all have so many layers we just pile up on top of each other. I encourage you to get with a coach. Try my Certified Coaches – they’re amazing, so many have experience working with trauma and your situation. I will post your comment as an actual post, because it’s so powerful and easy to identify with – rage when a man isn’t behaving the way we want. Love Rori

  29.  #29Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 9:14 am

    Sangelina 26-

    Thank you and yes, I need to actually get back to using the tools on Chicago. I have started to slack there and really his purpose in my life right now should be to practice. I’ve been concealing my feelings and that is what I need to work on.

    When he called yesterday all concerned about whether I had been on a date Sunday (when I was with S) I said I didn’t think I had any kind of commitment with him and was free to do what I want. He said well no, but that he was worried about his heart getting hurt if he doesn’t know what is going on with me.

    That made me feel bad and guilty, but then it was like wait a minute, we DON’T have a freaking commitment. I feel manipulated.

    I asked if he goes on dates and he said in Chicago he goes out with “friends”. He left it vague and he didn’t mention anything here (remember I found a bra on his floor). Anyway, I still don’t trust him but I’m not being totally upfront with him either.

  30.  #30Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 9:27 am


    Rather than saying “I don’t have any commitment with you and I’m free to do what I want” which can put a man very much on the defensive and make his walls go up – try something like,

    “I feel uncomfortable talking about the rest of my dating life. It would feel wonderful if a man I cared for asked me for a commitment, but until that happens it feels better to keep my options open.”

    Do you see the difference? Soft and gentle and feminine, yet the message gets through loud and clear.

  31.  #31Lovergirl on May 19, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Indigo 30-

    Yes, I do see the difference. I probably should have been more gentle. I’m sure the topic will arise again.

  32.  #32Mandy on May 19, 2015 at 11:47 am

    I can feel my consciousness expanding.

  33.  #33Femininewoman on May 19, 2015 at 11:47 am

    These words spoke to me so I thought I’d share

    “Don’t put up with a man who says, “You deserve someone better than me”. If someone said that to me, I’d respond, “You know what?? You’re DAMNED RIGHT! Adios!”

    Other red flags: “I’m so busy right now that I can’t call you or see you” “I’m confused,” “I gotta be me,” or, “I want to be a good partner, but I don’t know how.” Or my favorite: “I’m not ready for a relationship right now, but I’d love to hang out with you”…. If somebody says this to you, BELIEVE HIM! You teach people how to treat you and eventually you get what you put up with. If you want less doubt, fear and worry in your life, stop putting up with it. Healthy love is discriminating and insists upon loving treatment no matter what. Healthy love starts with you respecting yourself enough to only be around those who respect you. Being around like-minded, positive, “going somewhere in their life” people is critical. Critical.”

  34.  #34Azure Blu on May 19, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    I AGREE with ALL of THAT!!!
    Thank you for posting!

  35.  #35IamHIs on May 19, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    I feel. so. embarrassed.

    Things were getting weird with me and TT. He was getting extremely jealous when I would talk to/touch/or laugh with another guy. Just in a friendly way. I don’t think it was flirtatious with any of them, maybe mildly so with one, but that’s it.

    I just kept leaning back. The fact that I feel weird about the age difference makes it easier to lean back. I don’t want to waste my time with any guy, let alone a much younger one who doesn’t want me enough to step up.

    He turns me on pretty easily, but only when he isn’t TRYING. I sigh when he comes close to me, simply because I find his big manly presence comforting.

    One time, I was feeling particularly tense, and he “bumped into me” and it just made me feel so much safer and relaxed and happy just knowing he was close by, I started touching him and I gave him a little hug.

    Well, it’s like, when he gets jealous now, he tries really hard to get those kinds of reactions from me. Coming up behind me, touching me more, even going as far as groping my boobs at work, which thankfully, he just did once and not again thanks to my reaction.

    It just…feels like he’s trying to take from me…which feels like every other guy when he does that.

    This kind of stuff had been going on for a few weeks, and honestly, I was feeling a little tired of it. He went from being my superman helper to this insecure taker trying desperately to get some kind of sexual reaction from me, to confirm to himself that I wanted him or whatever I guess.

    How am I supposed to explain that I felt turned on specifically because I felt safe and protected?

    That it’s not something he can do by touching me or approaching me a certain way, but by how he serves and protects me?

    I feel scared, because the weird thing is, I think he figured it out…and most guys never figure anything out with me…they just give up and move on to some easier, more forward, easier to figure out woman.

    I added him on social media. Not so much because I wanted to check out his words on there, but because I wanted him to see MY words and MY heart.

    I think he finally noticed, because for the first time, probably since we met a few months ago, he looked me in the eyes. He asked me, “Hey, what’s up?”

    It’s like he has suddenly switched back from seeing me as a sex object that he can turn on, to a person again.

    He shared some little details about himself. He started helping me again. He became more gentle.

    and do you know why I feel embarrassed now? Because it all made me feel SO NERVOUS. So nervous I turned into a clumsy mess. Dropping things. Jumpy.

    I wasn’t expecting him to humanize me again. I expected him to fade out, just like every other guy who tries so hard to get my attention and then leaves once he has it.

    I was shaking…just noticing the attention he was paying attention to ME…not to my body or to how I was interacting with other men…just to ME, my emotional responses, the little quirks that make me who I am.

    It feels embarrassing because I feel like I’m too old to be acting like this or something?

    and it’s weird, because even though he’s so much younger, my inner 5 year old girl feels safe enough with him to actually come out of hiding.

    For example, when I’m with him…I feel safe to feel my emotions. to feel all my embarrassment, all my shakiness…all my sadness and anger and grief…and he doesn’t run away. Or look at me with sadness, shaking his head and walking away.

    He looks at me and he tries to understand or something?

    This just feels scary and weird. Because I feel so young with him, even though I’m supposed to be and feel and act so much older and more mature.

  36.  #36Zia on May 19, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Lovergirl – I am seeing an interesting dynamic playing out here between you and Chicago, and you and S. Now this is not a criticism so please don’t take it that way, merely what I am observing from the posts.

    You say that you are happy with what you have with S and are happy if you don’t get more, yet you do feel jealous and angry and upset and in turmoil when you see him active on those swinger sites, or when he goes to a party and you think he might be hooking up with someone. And that it makes you feel unsure and confused about what he wants. You and S are not in a committed relationship so you’re both free to do what you please, yet because you are invested in him your feelings are intense and strong, and when he does things like this it can unnerve you, throw you off kilter. He would tend to remind you when this happens of the fact that you’re not gf/bf (even though you know this)

    And on the other hand you have Chicago, another example where there is no commitment, and you are both free to do what you choose. And in this dynamic HE is the one who is getting upset at you for doing what you please – and you’re the one who has remind him that you’re not commited here. And you get to experience the reverse.

    Now my brain gets a bit foggy when I try and work this out – but then again its not mine to work out, but I wonder if there might be some value to you in observing these two situations and what each presents to you (because from what I can see we have to very polar opposites here), and perhaps have a look to see what it is you are needing and getting from both sides? Not in relation to working out who you have a future with, rather more as an observation/learning opportunity/using this as a tool to see if it brings up stuff within you that might be worth bringing out?

    I think this is where the toxic men programme would be super helpful (even if you can’t afford any of the other programmes). Because it really gets to the core of YOU and delving really deep into your feelings and what is going on inside… and can really help you appreciate yourself and forget about what’s going on with the men you do or don’t want in your world for a little while.

    Hope you find this helpful in some way x

  37.  #37Zia on May 19, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Lovergirl – oh and I meant to add, I’m sharing my observation purely because I find the two dynamics really fascinating and I feel like there is something to be learned from it 🙂

  38.  #38Zia on May 19, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    IamHis #35 – aaaaah so much rawness and beauty in this post!! <3 <3 <3

  39.  #39Zia on May 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    IamHis – my beau is four years younger, and also slightly shorter than me. But he also makes me feel so safe, and secure, and… petite? I am 6′ tall…. I always assumed I would need someone older/taller to make me feel that way. But I sooo can feel what you are saying.

  40.  #40Dixie on May 19, 2015 at 5:14 pm


    Just a little unpacking here: I’m feeling like I’m
    sitting in a bowl of emotional soup, lots of old triggers showing up, not in a bad way, but in a sort of useful way…

    Still. Im feeling very unsure about D. lately and all the conversations on there boards is helping me feel grounded and steady.

    I’ve sort of been in this spot before, but at least this time, I feel stronger inside, less panicky, and more cognizant of what’s happening inside my heart..

    Kim, I was reading your comments on the previous thread, and yes, a man who wants us will move forward…

    And Tereana, how I love your posts! I was cheered knowing that V.would like to marry you (!) after your gentle but clear email. Yes, we deserve mountain-moving “just because” our man wants to do that, for us!

    My hearts been feeling torn… I do love D. deeply and I feel scared that maybe he is just a messenger, to help me work out issues. I don’t really want to “do” anything now except lean way back, step back, and get back on my path.

    And as much as it might feel scary, (ladies, it really does to me!) to open myself up and start dating again, I know I have to… The energy has shifted between myself and D. and it would feel so wonderful and sexy and warm to have a man I cared about, claim me, not just in word, but through his actions and follow through. I do love him, but I would love a stronger relationship even more!

  41.  #41Dixie on May 19, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    “these boards”, I meant 🙂

  42.  #42Dixie on May 19, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    Iamhis #35: This struck a chord with me… I love how you described the whole experience. Yes, it does feel unnerving when someone “sees” us fully, but OH, how wonderful and safe that feels too!

    Zia #36: just a quick note that I loved your obervation. I was noticing the same pattern in my own life, and yes, sometimes it really feels like the universe is presenting us with a very clear “pattern” to recognize and learn from.

    Love to you all tonight.

  43.  #43Mandy on May 19, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Oh my goodness…remember how juicy I said I felt before? Now I feel just lustrous.

    G has been talking to me for a good three hours on a daily basis. He and I are both on disability pay but he is in pre-pharmacy college and has a desire to become a pharmacologist. That’s so hot!!! We’re just talking, but it is NICE. He is a doer and a giver and a masculine man. I’m so glad the universe is showing me an example of how a masculine man is, and how I can feel my way into him, without having him be a stick in the mud or too whiny or sensitive.

    We know we’re both stuck in dead-end relationships and they are hard to get out of because of the level of commitment and time and investment we’ve put into them. Our partners just don’t have what it takes to be responsible adults and it really SUCKS we fell for them and not for each other, is what we’re both saying to each other now.

    Honestly, we’re not feeling bad about this. His girlfriend has been saying for years she thinks we’re having sex, but we’ve never touched each other. I was completely oblivious to the fact he was checking me out like that. I hate to say it but that just makes me want him more. There are some serious things going on here. She used to be my friend and ever since she’s been accusing G of cheating with me (which she has been accusing him of for three years)…maybe the seed was planted in our heads and now something’s actually growing out of it. The both of us are so oppositional we’re having a hard time not doing anything.

    But…It is SO lovely to hear I am desired…it feels so good, I almost can’t describe it…like a shower and cold glass of water after being in the sun all day. I feel so alive…

  44.  #44Tereana on May 19, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Aw, crap. Here I am, thinking I’m all leany-backy and stuff like this. And just like this woman – leaning forward because I think I need to “tell him” or “show him” something. Argh!

    But…you know. It’s not all bad. I’ve made the best decision for me. The thing is, I didn’t really need to TELL him I made that decision. I just “thought” that I had to. So I did.

    Update on the V situation: So basically, I heard from him. Finally. After a lot of silence, or just short messages, he opened up to me. He told me that he had been not contacting me much because he was basically wrestling with the decision of what to do. And he felt sad – “tense and sad,” to be precise, that he feels he has to stay in India with his parents. Wait. I think I did already post about this. Anyway. In case you missed it. So he’s staying.

    And at first, I was like, “Well, I still love you.” And I was imagining all these romantic scenarios in which our love prevails over all, and we stay together and things somehow magically happen anyway, and then I realized that was all a load of crap. Well, or even if it wasn’t totally, that nevertheless, I had to keep living my life, for me, and not going all over there, and thinking about him. And not only that, he made his decision. And his decision was not-me. So it doesn’t matter even what it was. He decided that I was not his top priority. End of story. There doesn’t need to be any more to it than that. But there also was more to it. There are these large cultural factors that I just can’t fight. Leaning back really is my only option.

    Except I didn’t really lean back. I leaned forward to tell him all about how I was going to “lean back.” I leaned forward to tell him about basically the things I just said. It wasn’t really necessary. In effect, it felt better to think and feel these things rather than communicate them. Perhaps I can learn this lesson again, through this experience. But anyway, there it is. It’s all over, as far as I am concerned. And there really wasn’t much there to begin with. Probably all imaginary or in my head, or mostly. But I took a step back, I got a grip, and I told myself, “Hey, this really isn’t working out for you.”

    I’m not sure if I’m ready to go out there and just start dating again. But of course I’ve been back on OKC for a few days, and I’ve been more open with men out and about, making eye contact, and letting guys flirt with me. I no longer think of myself as “taken.” And I don’t feel bad about it, either.

    I don’t feel bad about any of it. I let him know the door was open. If he wants to contact me, ok. But I want to be the priority in my partner’s life and vice versa. I want to know every day that he wants me and he’s thinking of me, not just on the off-chance that we happen to speak every week or so. He’s ignored me. He’s let this go for too long without ever really thinking of me and how I feel. He feels so much and cares to much for what his parents feel and what his parents want. I guess that’s the primary relationship that he’s chosen. Maybe that’s how it goes there.

    But he couldn’t tell his parents about me, either. He said he was afraid they would feel guilty, or afraid that he would leave them. I think he was projecting, personally. I think that he would feel guilty for leaving them. I think he could have been afraid (possibly) that if he told them, maybe they would be angry – or maybe they wouldn’t be. Maybe they would support him and encourage him to marry me, like he said to me that he “wanted” to. And then he’d actually have to do something about it. *gasp* Words are nice. But doing is a whole different thing.

    He’s a baby. He’s a tiny, cute baby who has no idea what he is doing. And I am a fully fledged, empowered woman who wants a man who worships her and desires to serve her every need. Like my coworker today. I asked him if he would bring me lunch, and he was sooooo happy to do it. He literally said that he would do anything for me. He’s married. But I don’t care. I don’t want to hook up with him. I just want to soak in all the good stuff that comes when someone feels like that. It’s a great feeling : )

    (Oh, and this guy professes to really like strong women. Men like that are out there!)

  45.  #45Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    IamHis 35,

    Are you dating this guy?

  46.  #46Mandy on May 19, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Good for you Tereana! You are strong. You did what you needed to do and I can’t even say that quite yet…

    But hey, don’t feel so bad. You did what you had to do. I know I won’t like telling J to go, but he’s gotta go if I can’t live around him peacefully!

    Gotta take care of #1. I hated hearing that from my first ex boyfriend but he was right!

  47.  #47IamHis on May 19, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    Nope. He’s just someone I work with at a place where I happen to get triggered at all the time. I’ve never gotten so triggered at a job before, not even the more prestigious, better paying ones I’ve had.

    There’s been so much change in my life. There’s always so much change in my life. I feel angry and tired of the constant change in my life.

    The whole situation feels strange.

    I feel comforted by him. I feel scared of Imaginary Relationship Land.

    I feel myself doubting myself and that feels infuriating. I can tell he feels SOMETHING for me.

    I felt worried that he just wanted me for sex, but I don’t really feel that way anymore.
    Best Western Lehigh Valley Hotel and Conference Center I know I am analyzing too much.

    I know I switched verb tenses and keep rehashing old stuff. I feel shifts in energy and I just want to understand them.

    Really it’s nothing, but it means something to me.

    I feel scared and angry and I feel like running away.

    I want to run away from the blog and from him and from all men.

    This feels awful.

    It feels infuriating to sense attraction from men, but to feel like an inexperienced teenager who has never been in a relationship stuck in a grown woman’s body, whose inner little girl still comes out and still feels terrified most of the time. I hate men and I hate the women who steal them from me even more.

    I feel humiliated, mortified.

  48.  #48IamHis on May 19, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    Best Western Lehigh Valley and Conference Center?

  49.  #49Indigo on May 19, 2015 at 10:40 pm


    The reason I asked is that the best way to start and to get through this is to stay away from Imaginary Relationship Land, and spend time with guys who don’t trigger you, who just want to get to know you as a person.

  50.  #50IamHis on May 20, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Thanks, Indigo. I do spend time with guys who don’t trigger me. I have lots of other things going on in my life, and I do feel happy overall, in spite of never feeling quite settled down.

    I guess I just wanted to freak out a little bit!

    Sometimes it just feels good to get it out of the system

  51.  #51Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 6:44 am

    I’m so proud of you… You shared with V your feelings and wants in a relationship
    and he was able to let you know what is going on with him…

    Now, armed with the Truth, you can move forward
    and OUT of your comfort zone
    Of long distance men…

    You have shared your childhood story…
    the old pattern of pinning for a parent
    who would be gone much of the time…

    I too have this in my childhood and
    struggle with picking this sort of man…
    Interesting… the unavailable men I choose
    live right here in my city,,,
    and disappear (emotionally) regularly.,,

    I know we can stop this pattern,
    Armed with the Rori TOOLS!!!

  52.  #52Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 6:59 am

    50 IamHis — I totally get this! I feel the same way right now. 🙂

  53.  #53Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 7:06 am

    you are freaking out?
    You need to vent?
    Can you share, darling Siren?

  54.  #54Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 7:12 am

    I just need to vent right now. I am feeling SUPER triggered at the moment, and I don’t like how my vibe is feeling to me.

    Tender and I are moving closer to getting engaged, I can feel it. I’ve been engaged twice before and the memories of those past experiences, combined with what’s taking place in my life right now, are shaking loose a lot of old fears and hurts and I feel overwhelmed. Sometimes Tender will say or do something and it’s like this memory I buried in my mind rushes to life, and I can no longer see things in front of me for what they are, instead I only see through the lens of some pain I experienced in the past. I can soothe myself so much better than I used to be able to, but there are too many things coming at me at once right now. I feel attacked by my own mind!

    Tender is rubberbanding a bit right now, which I KNOW in my heart is not a problem and totally a natural piece of the progression, but my mind is making up all sorts of stories about him, mostly nasty mean ones. His rubberbanding is much less than it used to be. I still see him most every day of the week and we talk on the phone almost nightly even if I already saw him that day. We stay with each other at least 4 times a week. Our sex life is great. The reality is that everything is good. But I am living in fear of my own mind right now, and the awful twisted things it’s trying to make me believe.

    Tender will say things like…I’m really busy right now. I can’t see you this night or that night, but let’s plan for this other night further away. This is SO TRIGGERING for me. From my Dad growing up who was too busy to come to my dance recitals or tee ball games, to my last fiance who missed out on some very important-to-me functions because he was ‘really busy’, that word makes me feel ANGRY. And unloved. I see that the situation isn’t bad…Tender’s not avoiding me, he wants some air and is still making plans with me. Yet in my mind he’s pushing me away, playing games, taking space he doesn’t need.

    There’s this voice inside of me that is so scared to keep opening up to him, to be vulnerable around him and not make demands or set expectations. My masculine side keeps wanting to take over and build a really high wall. My heart knows I see him plenty, that this time and space is fine for me to do my own things. Yet there is this other darker part of me that wants to control him, that doesn’t want HIM to get to say when we see each other and when we don’t. I don’t like this side of me! My teeth feel clenched, I feel dark energy inside, I feel like my vibe is repulsive. I am SCARED of this part of me, I don’t know how to love it or marry it into myself or what to do when these feelings I dislike so much rush forth.

    Mostly, I just want to feel relaxed, to be able to calm myself down from whatever this is, and get my vibe back to where I want it to be. Writing this out helps, so thank you for this space, and I am wondering if you ever feel this way too?

  55.  #55Dominique on May 20, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Labbit – Sending much love to you. And in answer to your question, I think we all feel this at times, sometimes more strongly than others. I certainly have. ALLOW these feelings, give them space to flow and maybe move on through you. Love them. They once protected you. You can gently yet firmly escort them to a room far off in recesses of your psyche, or you can show them the door. Give them a kiss, and say good night.


  56.  #56Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 8:11 am

    {{{{Labbit}}} #54
    Ohhhh… soft, sweet wonderful sharing of your vulnerable heart!!!

    Dominque is the wise and and wonderful Goddess and her ideas for peace and strength sound so right!!!

    I am not that knowledgable about soothing
    NV… but have done these things in the past

    Rori has written about calling this NV by name…
    What does he/she look like?
    What is she saying to you?
    Where does he/she live? what does the house look like…
    knock on the door where she lives…
    does she answer it? Tell her your name
    and ask if you can come in
    sit with her
    and tell her you love her power and strength
    You want to work together to make YOUR life
    Try and hug her…
    and say you are leaving now
    but you will visit her again soon…
    and then do this off and on as often as you want…
    This has changed MY life…

    My stranger is Lydia… sometimes she is big and scary and sometimes she is a little softer but mainly ugly…
    She has helped me become more powerful
    I love Lydia… she is a part of ME

  57.  #57Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Thank you so much Dominique and Azure! Dominique for your reassurance that this is so normal (it always feels good to hear that these feelings that feel so crazy to me are in fact normal, whew, sigh of relief!).

    Azure YES I needed to vent big-time, LOL, thank you for the invitation. You are so right that I need to get back in touch with my stranger, for awhile I knew her well and she had a name but I’ve since forgotten it and to be honest I’ve pushed her away…don’t want to know her. I need to give her some space in me right now clearly.

    I ran 10 miles this morning to try to exhaust some of this stress out and it’s STILL here, ugh and LOL. I could tell I was angry running…hitting the trail with my heels instead of my toes and feeling like each pounding step was cracking a fissure in the Earth.

    I admit it…I feel 3 years old right now. I’m throwing a big ol’ temper tantrum. Tender has done NOTHING wrong, I see this. Though he might be feeling triggered too.

    Yesterday he let me know that he decided to go away camping with some friends this coming long weekend. He had told me about the trip a few weeks ago but at the time he said he likely wasn’t going to go. He just decided to join them yesterday. He has every right to go. I want him to have fun with his friends! And yet I let myself knock me off-balance with this somewhat unexpected news. It’s not like I’ll be alone — friends quickly filled in my weekend.

    I feel 2 years old. I just want to say NO. NO don’t go. NO don’t abandon me. (He’s so NOT abandoning me.) NO don’t have fun with your friends, have fun with meeeeeeeeee. Hahaha, I feel silly just typing this out. But it is how I feel! And I know it’s so silly. I will have fun this weekend, I was thinking about how I needed some friend time anyway. So why is this other part of me still trying to clutch onto him so much?! I don’t get it.

    It’s funny…but I think he also was expecting a totally different reaction when he told me he was going away. I didn’t get upset, I just said, “OK I will make other plans.” And I think he was expecting me to protest. Insist that he stay.

    I keep thinking of that chapter in Why Men Love Bitches (I know, I’ve mostly moved beyond this book at this point, but there is still some gold in there). There’s a guy who does this to his girlfriend. He’s all, I’m going away for the weekend, and then watches her reaction. She plays it cool and does her own thing. He calls her while he’s gone and can’t get her…she comes home and finds him there early sitting on his stoop. Ha! I also keep thinking about a post EMK’s then-girlfriend-now-wife wrote about the three things she did to help make her relationship successful, and one of them was that she didn’t make him change his life or stop hanging out with his friends…and I feel this is critical. Because I want this too, to be able to see my friends and not feel guilty about it…like I am abandoning HIM.

    I realize I don’t have to live my life according to what those two sources say or against them either. I just find it all funny. 🙂 I guess I am feeling a little better, letting all of this RAGE inside of me without spewing it out on Tender. Thanks so much Sirens for giving me the space to do so.

  58.  #58Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Yay!!! Labbit!!!!
    Great Sirenness!!!

    Great venting… I sooo know the temper tantrum!!

    Feeling like you are your 3 yr. old self…MEMEME!!

    Maybe you are both feeling the NEXT level of intimacy
    and it WOULD be VERY scary!!!

    Great that you are both taking space…
    Tender sounds VERY wise indeed!
    as ARe YOU, lovely Siren
    I am sending huggs and love and warm sunshiny energy to you my darling!

  59.  #59Kim on May 20, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Ha Labbit you made me laugh. I think we all struggle with that space thing. I would feel exactly like you yet I am totally with you in giving him the space and also having space when I need it.
    I have been sick with the flu and my guy said he would go fishing with a first I was thinking ‘ugh, I am sick and lonely and he is having fun’ and then I though it was a great idea and already picked movies I wanted to watch alone and fantasized about just having my condo to myself for one day and night…lol..and then haha..the friend cancelled on him / or he decided to stay, can’t remember, and I was miffed he was not going. So funny.
    I definitely feel like my man ‘should’ want to have fun with me always but that I can have fun with others/friends and without him too, which is definitely like a 3 year old lol. I admit it.
    Luckily, he mostly if not always prefers to be with me and include friends on both sides (all our friends are married so they usually come as couples)…and very rarely will want to do something with the ‘boys’ but when he does, I encourage him a lot because I am definitely the one who has more girls nights out and stuff, so he is welcome to his boys nights…lol.
    I wouldn’t feel happy with him planning a long weekend away, without me, I don’t think he would, although I have the feeling that this coming long weekend he might plan a day fishing with the boys and since he has very limited energy that could mean that he won’t have much/any energy for us to go on an adventure which would indeed bug me a lot,
    And I would most likely do something alone which would send him into a sulk lol.
    Ah so complicated these dynamics 😉

  60.  #60Lovergirl on May 20, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    Zia 36-

    Yes, I realize they are stark opposite ends of the spectrum. Some of the things that annoy me about Chicago are probably ways in which I have been too needy with S in similar circumstances. So there are definitely moments to learn from. I do feel that S reciprocates a lot more than I do towards Chicago though.

    There have been times where I felt upset about S and the swinger site, recently. I didn’t used to feel that way at all. I guess I felt more secure with him before and the pregnancies and miscarriages and all the emotions they brought up kind of threw it all off balance.

    Especially when he decided to start looking for someone more serious, that just made me feel super anxious. I wasn’t so sure of my standing with him any more. He seems to have abandoned that search, at least temporarily. I noticed he disabled his Plenty of Fish profile and seems more active on the swinger site instead.

    I really don’t know though. I am trying not to make it my focus. I haven’t heard from him since I saw him on Sunday (2 1/2 days) and I miss him a lot already. He never used to do this, not talking for days and I really don’t know what is going on in his head. Trying not to stress about it.

    When we were in bed together last, he mentioned wishing he could take me on a vacation. He also was saying things about how he wanted to see me in the middle of the week. I guess I’ll wait and see if any of that materializes but I don’t want to get my hopes up.

    Last night I went out with Chicago. He took me to a nice Thai restaurant and really the whole interaction seemed more pleasant than usual. He asked me, at one point, if he annoys me in any way and said that if he ever does to tell him about it and he will change the behavior. I was kind of taken aback when he asked that and didn’t know what to say. Obviously he has done things that annoy me in the past, but he wasn’t at the moment and I didn’t want to set in with a list of grievances, lol.

    I am feeling kind of guilty about my non-reciprocated feelings toward Chicago. Maybe I should drop him just so I’m not leading him on. I’m not sure.

  61.  #61Millie on May 20, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    Missing my relationship today. I wish it was still in front of me. I have new dates lined up and am talking to other guys with is helping me.

  62.  #62Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    I hope you feel better soon…
    You sound sooo calm, relaxed and lovely in your
    living together mode…

  63.  #63Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Azure yes LOL thank you for laughing and playing along with me as I go through all of this. Hugs to you Siren!!!

    And Kim, I totally agree with Azure. I feel glad you can laugh along with me, and it sounds like everything is going just lovely for you and MoM living together now!! I’m so happy for you, and I hope you feel back to better soon.

    Oh and Indigo I hope your party planning with D is going well!!

  64.  #64Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Millie you are doing so awesome!! Yes you will feel this way sometimes, and that’s totally normal. You are taking all of the right steps, especially lining up dates, and even in the moments when it may not feel right or even a little bad…just remember that usually means something wonderful is about to happen.

  65.  #65Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    Labbit #64
    From one Siren to another
    “that usually means something wonderful is about to happen”

  66.  #66Mandy on May 20, 2015 at 6:18 pm

    I really need help.

    I felt it drop into my heart when I was getting J lunch like a guy…

    This isn’t working and we’ve run our course. Stick a fork in me. I want to tell him we should just be friends.

    How can I further loosen the bonds between us, Sirens? I need strength and confidence in my decision and to know I won’t go back on my decision. I need to have the strength to tell him soon because I do not want dishonesty between us.

    That doesn’t mean I don’t still have love and care for him. It just means…he’s not the guy for me. He’s just not and I shouldn’t be trying to fix him to be the man for me. That was the mistake all along, thinking I could use the Siren tools to fix him. That just makes no sense really because it’s like using feminine tools to do a masculine thing.


    G told me today he’s going to break up with his gf and come get me and basically tell J he’s here for me and he needs to let go. I don’t want that so basically I need to make a tough decision soon and I feel terrifyingly anxious about it because J still means so much to me as a friend and a confidante. I truly still care for him and don’t want to hurt him in any way, I want to just be truthful with him…we need to be friends and take this god-awful obligation off ourselves.

    I have to assume he’s not happy with the pressure for sex when he just doesn’t feel sexual with me anymore. I have to assume he’s not attracted to me anymore and he’s dragging this out because it’s comfy and just keep this puppy-love thing going with hugs and kisses and nothing else. There no way in hell this is a mature relationship.

    How can I further loosen the bonds between us, Sirens? I really need help.

  67.  #67Mandy on May 20, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    I’m sitting here crying like a little kid…I am so upset and sad this won’t work…I am mourning the loss of J already…

    I’m sure it’s a good thing to cry it out but…oh god….it hurts….

    Just like when someone passes…it hurts….so badly…I am so familiar with him…I just don’t want to leave his side but I must…

  68.  #68Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    65 Azure — Thank you. 🙂

  69.  #69Labbit on May 20, 2015 at 6:44 pm


    The best way that you can show appreciation for your continued affection for J, and everything you’ve shared, is by delivering a simple, short speech to him as calmly as possible.

    Every emotion you’re feeling right now is a beautiful thing, and I am sure any woman in your shoes would feel the throes of ALL emotions too. I know I would!

    When speaking with a man, especially one you’re in a relationship with, the more emotional you are (crying especially), the less seriously he’ll take your message. You can best serve both you and him by being calm and straightforward. You don’t need to explain why you’re doing what you’re doing, or talk about your history, or tell him what you’re doing next.

    I think what you’ve said in your comment is a perfect start — “we need to be friends and take this god-awful obligation off ourselves.”

  70.  #70Azure Blu on May 20, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Hang in there…
    make sure you don’t go from the “fire to the frying pan”
    But I’m thinking you surely deserve some wonderful S**X!!!
    You just don’t have to move in with G right away!!

  71.  #71Tereana on May 20, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    I feel like the Queen of Mixed Messages right now. And I only feel that way, because I feel the mixed messages, and they all feel true to me.

    I truly feel liberated by choosing to move forward and to not think of V as a relationship, and to instead look at what I am about to do next. And yet…

    I also feel comforted and homey when I think of how, even when that’s true, part of me still feels connected to him. My heart still feels love there, and I don’t necessarily want to kill it so soon. Even the thought of possibly moving there to be with him floated up again recently, and it didn’t feel so bad to me. Not that he’s asking. But if he did, what would I say?

    When it comes to school, I feel as if I have decided to go, and that I have to make a go of it, or I might be missing out on some important work that I have to do in my life.

    And, on the other hand, I’ve worked hard to get to where I am now. I have a job that pays me and gives me benefits. They want me to stay and not leave. And I have a house to live in – two years ago at this time, none of those things were true. That’s frikking amazing. And I want to throw that all away, pack up my stuff, and move to a city to start a program that will for sure be interesting, but which will offer me no solid guarantees, in terms of what comes afterward?

    And what about becoming a mom? Where does all that fit in? (Unless following my passion makes me come across as more attractive and more confident, because I’ll be happier with my life choices…) I guess the thing is just to be happy with my choices. And to trust myself that I know what my best choices are going to be.

    One person’s mixed message is another person’s paradox. I like paradox.

  72.  #72Tereana on May 20, 2015 at 7:12 pm


  73.  #73Tereana on May 20, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    Dixie (40) – Thanks! 🙂

  74.  #74Tereana on May 20, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Azure Blue (51) – Thank you!

    It’s odd that you say LDR is my “comfort zone.” I certainly don’t think of it that way. Although, I suppose you are right. In a way, it is. I think partly because I have a very intense personality. When someone is far away, I feel less apt to overwhelm them. Although I suppose I can do it in other ways – say, with writing a lot, perhaps.

    In person, I don’t write so much, because I have the physical closeness. I much more love and appreciate the comfort of in person interactions. I do not really “love” long-distance relationships. I seem to attract them without knowing that’s what I am doing.

    For example, R was a guy I went out with a few times before he revealed to me that his job required him to travel during the week literally every week, and sometimes on weekends. When I met V, it was under the pretext that he had just moved to my city. Then he told me he was “deciding” to move to my city. Only later did he reveal that even if he was going to move, he would have to go to India first. And the only reason I agreed to “wait” for him was because it was just that – I was going to hold on until he came back. I was not agreeing to a long-term, long-distance relationship. I very much want him to be here, home, with me. Probably about as much as his parents want him there with them. But they get first dibs. Because they are his parents.

    Now things have changed, and I am no longer “waiting” because he’s not coming back.

    I’m sad. I’m not going to lie. The situation makes me sad. It feels like a rarity in my life to fall in love in this way. I could even forgive him his faults, because on the whole, I liked him so much. My coworker even asked me the things I liked about him today, and I had no trouble coming up with a good list of things.

    But Mandy is right. I might feel sad, but I don’t feel bad. I’m doing what I have to do. It’s for my own sanity. And maybe – maybe, just maybe – he’s thinking of me, too. Right now. Maybe he’s thinking of me all the time. I have no idea, really.

    He told me that he had even considered moving his parents to the US. But then he thought better of it.

    I think maybe my solution, soon, is going to be that I need to get laid. Lol. I’ll need to sleep with someone else to break that energy cycle of attachment. Maybe. If it feels good. And then we’ll see where we’re at…

  75.  #75Mandy on May 20, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    Labbit and Azure…dearest, most sweetest Sirens and friends as well…

    You have no idea how soothing your words feel to me. In my sadness, I feel an incredible wave of femininity….and I want you both to know every words means the world to me. I will not forget it. You are also the types of women I strive to be like…sure about what I want and boundaries firmly in place, and no fear of saying what I need to…all while being graceful and cool and collected.

    Azure, there is GREAT sex in my future, for certain.
    I’m just worried it may be wrong. Should I tell J we need to be friends before the great sex happens with another man? Or is it okay to keep it on the down-low while I’m slowly but surely severing ties with J?

    I think I might need to tell him we need to be friends beforehand, but if I just use this circular date (G) to show me a good time…I might have a happy moment I have needed for so long without having to sever ties with J beforehand. I just don’t want to feel like a bad person or like I’m lying or cheating on J. Should I feel guilty that my other CD (G) wants to rock my world in the sack?

    But again thank you for your support Sirens. This is my solace, this blog is my safe zone, my therapy, my sanctuary almost…

    In my sadness…it is so beautiful to talk to such spirited, smart, feminine women…

    I genuinely feel love for this blog and the people in it…

    And yes…Labbit and Azure…calm and straightforward…best way to do it…and tell him we just need to call ourselves what we are to each other…friends…best friends.

    It can be beautiful if it happens…where we turni into friends and the pressure is gone…

    He broke up with his ex once because he moved to California and she was still in AZ…the poor couple cried it out together….but I think that is so beautiful…I wish I could just cry it out with him and have both of us accept that we are very platonic in nature now. Doesn’t mean it will happen…But I believe if I show him respect, but am honest and calm and understanding…he might not hate me for changing from bf/gf into just friends.

    But yes the line about “taking this god-awful obligation off us”…I think he might actually feel relived.

    I drank some Valerian root tea to calm my nerves about it.

    Now I feel a little better….I think I will do something for myself here…a hot bath, go for a run maybe…or start a craft…look into scheduling that massage and belly dance classes and just THROW myself into the classes and it will make it easier for me to let go.

    But Sirens…I love you so much…you have shown me such care and sweetness, and thank you for your support…means the world to me. Thank you and if there’s anything I can do for you…please don’t hesitate to ask…

  76.  #76Tereana on May 20, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    Labbitt (54) Oh, heck yes. I also *hate* the word “b*sy.” I can’t even write it. It’s like a four-letter word. lol. I hate when I hear it from friends. I hate when I hear it from dates/lovers/partners. It is very triggering. It makes me feel, too, like I am unloved, unimportant, unworthy of their time. I make up stories about why I’m so bad that they can’t/won’t spend time with me. And I do it automatically, so that it seems real. It seems like it must be the obvious answer and the truth of what they are telling me.

    I’ve been struggling with this a lot, lately, actually.

    And just today, I had the opportunity to do a long meditation on “permission for connection.” It is such a complex, layered bunch of feelings and blocks, that i’m not sure this one meditation can unwind all of it, but maybe it will start a shift.

    It already gave me some insight to where this feeling is coming from – the constant neglect from not just my dad, but both my parents, who were generally “too busy” for me. In truth, they did spend a lot of time on me. But the memories that hurt are the times when I really needed/wanted attention, and they were “too busy” either with work, or my mom with paying attention to my younger siblings. As far as I can figure, they decided that I was ok by myself and I didn’t need their help and attention. So they didn’t give it to me. And on the times when they did, it felt like too much. I was suddenly “too special.” It couldn’t be possible for one person to be so special. Especially since all the times when I really wanted to feel their attention, they were paying that attention to something else. So yeah, mixed messages.

    No wonder I am the Queen of Mixed Messages. That’s pretty much how I was raised.

    Labbitt, I loved your writing and your venting. That was super cool to read, even if it wasn’t cool for you to feel. I hope the feelings have moved along a bit! : )

  77.  #77Millie on May 20, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    Mandy— I love what you said about the idea of using feminine tools to do a masculine thing and how thst doesn’t work at all!! I think that is a concept I’ve thought about and actually expected that if a man didn’t react to my use of the tools in the way I thought he would then thst reflected on me as a failure. It makes perfect sense that trying to use the tools to acheive something is completely masculine and counter productive!!! So perfect!

  78.  #78Millie on May 20, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Labbit— thank you for your continued support, I appreciate more than words can express! I hope you make friends with your insecurity, it sounds like your relationship with tender and with you are both going down wonderful paths. I feel so happy for you at the prospect of being engaged and having found the right man for you! It also feels scary to think that even when you are at that stage of marriage, insecurities and fears still exist. I guess they always do… I just imagined they’d go away after awhile once security was established, but ebbs and flows probably keep us constantly changing.

  79.  #79Lovergirl on May 20, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    Chicago took me to see a movie tonight. It was one of the most violent movies I have ever watched (Mad Max). Considering I had told him before that I don’t like violent movies it seems very inconsiderate.

    I did not know what I was getting into. I hardly ever watch television and don’t see previews. He had seen some old version of this movie a long time ago, so he clearly had SOME idea what it was about.

    I almost walked out of the theater in the beginning. Maybe I should have, but I didn’t want to be a big baby about it. He was laughing at me covering my eyes (which I was doing through almost the entire movie- it was just constant demented weirdness, blood and gore). Totally not my kind of movie. UGH. I think S had even mentioned that I wouldn’t want to see that one, but I didn’t remember which one he was talking about.

    My body language towards him the whole time was pretty distant. At one point I thought he was reaching over to take my hand, but no, he wanted some of my candy. It made me think because the other day S had commented that maybe he takes me to those types of movies so I will get all scared and cling on to him. I don’t think I have ever acted that way with Chicago. With S, I am different, burying my face in his chest when something I don’t like comes on while we are at his place watching a movie, so he assumes I’d be that way with someone else.

    I didn’t sleep with Chicago tonight after the movie either. I said it was late and I needed to go home. I wouldn’t have felt like it after watching that either though.

    He did finally ask if I wanted to leave, but it was closer to the end of the movie. I could tell he was avoiding it and it was something he really wanted to see. I just dont get why he wanted to take ME. He apologized for it, but it didn’t feel sincere.

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

  80.  #80Lovergirl on May 20, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    Chicago took me to see a movie tonight. It was one of the most violent movies I have ever watched (Mad Max). Considering I had told him before that I don’t like violent movies it seems very inconsiderate.

    I did not know what I was getting into. I hardly ever watch television and don’t see previews. He had seen some old version of this movie a long time ago, so he clearly had SOME idea what it was about.

    I almost walked out of the theater in the beginning. Maybe I should have, but I didn’t want to be a big baby about it. He was laughing at me covering my eyes (which I was doing through almost the entire movie- it was just constant demented weirdness, blood and gore). Totally not my kind of movie. UGH. I think S had even mentioned that I wouldn’t want to see that one, but I didn’t remember which one he was talking about.

    My body language towards him the whole time was pretty distant. At one point I thought he was reaching over to take my hand, but no, he wanted some of my candy. It made me think because the other day S had commented that maybe he takes me to those types of movies so I will get all scared and cling on to him. I don’t think I have ever acted that way with Chicago. With S, I am different, burying my face in his chest when something I don’t like comes on while we are at his place watching a movie, so he assumes I’d be that way with someone else.

    I didn’t sleep with Chicago tonight after the movie either. I said it was late and I needed to go home. I wouldn’t have felt like it after watching that either though.

    He did finally ask if I wanted to leave, but it was closer to the end of the movie. I could tell he was avoiding it and it was something he really wanted to see. I just dont get why he wanted to take ME. He apologized for it, but it didn’t feel sincere.

  81.  #81Mandy on May 20, 2015 at 11:19 pm

    Thank you Millie…at least I know I’m on the right track again sort of…

  82.  #82Victoria on May 21, 2015 at 1:23 am

    Labbit 54,
    I relate to the part where you say you want to control when you see him.
    Even though I see F. proabably as much as you see Tender, it is always on his terms. He sees me when he wants to see me, he cancels when he wants to cancel, he is busy when he wants to be busy.
    I do not know his schedule in advance. I believe he knows his schedule at the hospital a month in advance, but does not share it with me, and then he either forgets or he pretends he has forgotten for some of his work commitments. Sometimes I believe he is extremely absent-minded and some times I think this is his passive-agressive way of controlling other people, especially me.
    I am practicing patience, and not meddling in his business. But this is really hard work for me, managing my own emotions like this.
    Also, I see we are moving closer, in so many ways, and it is scary… Having a fight when I am dissatisfied is so much more comfortable than taking my energy and focus off him. Urggg, growth pains.

  83.  #83Indigo on May 21, 2015 at 4:00 am


    For what it’s worth, I would have walked out of the movie. Wouldn’t have minded if he thought I was a big baby – in actual fact, I think that’s the whole point of these feminine tools – letting a man see our true selves. I’d have just smiled and said I needed to go and for him to give me a call when he’s done. I’ve just got to a point in my life where I won’t subject myself to something like that for the sake of keeping the peace.

  84.  #84Indigo on May 21, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Labbit, Victoria,

    I relate so much to what you’re both saying. I see D probably 4 nights a week as well, but every so often he’ll say “not tonight, how about tomorrow instead?” And it triggers me SO much. I know it’s crazy but for me it’s because there’s nothing I can DO about it. I can feel that internal battle between surrendering and wanting to change the situation, and I know which one I choose, but it triggers me nonetheless. Even though mostly I can say “ok, no problem” I would be lying if I said it comes easily to me. I relate so much to what both of you are feeling and saying, and yet I know it’s old, silly parts of me. Sometimes I just feel I have to let myself throw an internal tantrum and just “feel it out” until it subsides. Mostly I can’t even name the feeling I’m feeling – it’s not anger – but it feels like a little girl inside me who wants to be validated even though she can’t articulate what she feels.

    Labbit – Thank you! I’m very excited about the party. It’ll just be a small do, but we’re having gorgeous weather here so I’m thinking cocktails in the sunshine by the pool. I’ll give a full update to siren island afterwards 🙂

  85.  #85Indigo on May 21, 2015 at 4:17 am


    I know I’ve said this before, but I really want to urge you to exercise caution here. I feel compelled to speak up that I see you jumping from one man whom you’ve been with for a very long time and feel very attached to, to another man whom you seem to be laser-focusing on who will help take away your problems. I would feel much more comfortable seeing you spend time on your own first or casually dating guys for whom you don’t yet have any feelings. I think running straight into G’s arms will mask a lot of what you need to deal with inside yourself, and allows you to go from one intense experience to another and I think you could run into problems with him later on down the line. Just be careful, is all I’m saying.

  86.  #86Victoria on May 21, 2015 at 4:28 am

    Of course I want to control him. I might as well be honest with you, if not with him.
    I want to know where he is every moment of the day, be able to spy on him, be invisibly present at his work place, hear each conversation he is having. I want to know what he is thinking, what he is feeling, what and why he is planning or not planning.
    Thank God, none of this is physically possible, there is a saying in my language which roughly translates in “the less you know, the better you sleep”, something like the English “curiosity kills the cat”.
    If I would have to give this part of me a name, it would be Mata Harry. She is not silly, she is smart and creative, and she needs to be given another job so that she stops digging for information and overanalyzing him.

  87.  #87Indigo on May 21, 2015 at 5:01 am


    I’m glad we can be honest with each other on here. I definitely think it helps. I feel the same way, or at least I used to… but then I think of a lawyer I used to work with, who worked with his wife. She had to know where he was every minute of the day. On the rare occasion when he went out and did not tell her where he was going she would stomp into our office and demand to know where her husband was and when he’d be back and sometimes say peevishly, “well he obviously didn’t feel the need to tell me” and flounce off again. I remember once it was a Friday and they were going away for the weekend, and she was anxious to be off, and he was deliberately taking his time drinking his tea and chatting in our office and she kept popping her head in every 10 minutes. He used to mildly flirt with me too, but I am sure that was just a rebellion against all this. She was quite comically clingy and needy, which was all the more unbecoming given her position as a director at the company. Whenever I think about wanting to know my man’s every move (which I don’t really anyway) I think of this picture and I am cured 🙂

  88.  #88Victoria on May 21, 2015 at 5:45 am

    I would not tell him how much I want to know everything about him because, obviously I do not want to appear needy or insecure, which I both am, and I am not, dependinng on the time of the day, my PMS and several other factors :-).
    Sometimes I think he is a player. He is a world class player who is so good at pretending to be non-chalant, absent minded and never meaning to hurt me. Sometimes I think he is frequenting a male blog, the mirror image of this blog, where some male guru is giving him tips how to keep me just a little off balance. By the way, this is exactly the type of advice men get on male blogs. (Except for F.’s English language skills are not good enough to be able to be reading this, but there is a guy called David de Angello or something like this who teaches men how to drive women crazy, and F. is either a naturally born talent or has at a certain point in time has learnt how to do it. ).

  89.  #89Azure Blu on May 21, 2015 at 5:47 am

    Lovegirl #79
    Ohhh… darling Siren… the New mad max did look VERY violent on the trailers…
    I too HATE movies that are Too violent…

    I know it is difficult to start using your feeling messages…
    I too have struggled much!!
    BUT these are the perfect opportunities for YOU
    to start taking EXCELLENT, LOVING care of *YOU*

    You can start practicing with Chicago – he’s the perfect man for this practice – YOU don’t like him that much!!!
    You: “I feel confused and ignored”
    He will ask “why?”

    He has told you He wants you to let him know if there’s things that upset you…

    You: “I dont’ like violent movies, I do like light comedies and dramas and love stories… let’s see one of those next time… what do you think?”

    When he asked for you to spend the night/
    You: “I feel ignored. I dont like violent movies.
    I feel very anxious because of the violence in the movie. I want to be alone tonight.”

    When I started sharing MY feelings with my CDs
    MY self esteem SOARD!!!!
    I felt soooo loved and cherished by *ME*
    and until we learn to listen and take steps to
    set boundaries on OUR BEHALF
    with people we are close to
    and others.
    We Will NEVER get that from others.

  90.  #90Tereana on May 21, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Things I can only see from the outside:

    When I look at it, it appears to me that, rather than truly “leaning back” with V, it’s posdibke I was just trying to “control” the situation more. As in, control how it feels to me. Or maybe just control the one part that is/was within my power – since I can’t control any of what’s going on with him.

  91.  #91Azure Blu on May 21, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Tereana #89
    Wonderful warm YOU!!

    Of course we can always tweak things
    and I can see how you are bringing it all
    back to you – a Siren thing!!!

    You found out exactly what was going on
    He was trying to figure out
    allll those VERY important life choices…
    should he leave his aging parents?
    Should he bring them to the US?
    and many more options.
    He sounds like a super, caring man…

    You didn’t do anything wrong…
    NOT hearing from our man
    causes anxiety, worry and longing… for everyone!!!

    He did, eventually, give you his answer
    the sad thing is that it wasnt
    what you needed wanted to hear…
    It feels awful to hear NO!!!
    I know!!!
    hugggs and love to you
    as you process your feelings
    sit with them, love them
    and YOU!!!

  92.  #92Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 6:34 am

    Indigo 82-

    The more I think about it the more I think I should have walked out. I would have had to sit in the lobby, since he drove me there and my vehicle was at his house. I think I’d rather have done that than have all those images in my head though. I feel like I have made it pretty clear I don’t like this stuff, but maybe I need to be BLATANTLY clear, to the point of walking out.

    I know its just a movie but watching it was stressful and not something I enjoy at all. He could tell I didn’t like it (duh!). I told him a couple of times “I don’t like this” when he asked. Afterwards he made a comment about us just not liking the same type of movies. I said no, I don’t like this type of movie at all and he kind of laughed about it. Ha ha ha :/

    I’m thinking this is not a date movie and probably there aren’t a ton of women who are into this. This is one of these areas that is just making S look so much better to me- if he sees something on a movie that he knows I won’t like, he will reach up automatically and cover my eyes, lol. Chicago just wants me to hand him some candy.

    We have still never once watched a romantic comedy/chick flick, which is what I have told him I like. Meanwhile, S will sit through romantic movie that he has seen before, just because he thinks I would like it!

  93.  #93Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Azure 88-

    Oh, it was VERY violent, and I was thinking the whole time that you would have to be a sick minded person to even come up with some of this stuff. It was just one disturbing scene after another, people being tortured physically and emotionally, it was disgusting.

    He just texted me and said “good morning, how are you feeling, how did you sleep?” He asks me that all the time, which I think is kind of weird since I sleep just fine (lol) but I think today I will tell him that I feel “unsettled” due to watching all that violence from last night, which is true.

    Thanks for the ideas for what to say. I often have a hard time with that in person and just clam up if I don’t feel comfortable. Not so much with S, because I feel safer expressing myself with him, but with most men.

  94.  #94Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 7:03 am

    He texted back “I’m sorry sweetie, didn’t know it would affect you like that”. Ugh. It feels so insincere. I have TOLD him that I don’t like violence in movies, more than once, before we ever watched this!! It feels condescending, like he thinks I am being silly.

    Last night when we were talking, I was feeling like he talks down to me in other ways too. I get the feeling he thinks I am stupid, which is a pet peeve of mine. He was explaining something to me that needed no explaining and it made me feel like a child. I said “I know” and he kind of brushed me off and kept explaining like I was an idiot.

    I know men love to be “experts” on things but I also hate it when they assume I am not intelligent. I’m a lot smarter than I look and actually have a high IQ and a college degree. I think a lot of men assume I don’t.

  95.  #95Beloved on May 21, 2015 at 8:53 am

    lovergirl – no point on “shoulding” on yourself, what’s done is done and today is a new day 🙂 If it were me, I would want to tell myself how my choice was perfect for reasons I can’t maybe understand and even if I feel awful I feel totally willing to forgive myself and isn’t it nice to know that however it came out, it was my choice and isn’t that wonderful that I chose for myself and wouldn’t it be great if I can handle it differently next time, and even if I don’t, doesn’t it feel sweet to know I can make mistakes or do things that don’t always feel great and still love me? (Yeah…it’s taken about 5 years of practice to be so consistently kind and happy with myself.) And yes, we can tell a man what we think and feel all day long, and if he isn’t sensitive to our feelings, then action is the best way I know of to demonstrate that we really mean what we say.

    I wouldn’t see it as you being a big baby, my story would call it a strong move and choosing YOU.

    I actually walked out in the middle of a church service last night, because I felt so utterly bored and un-engaged. This was my 5th time to attend, and I thought of it later like I had given that boring guy who has some nice qualities at least 5 dates to win me over 🙂
    I had enough. I did struggle for maybe 20 minutes (ok, maybe30! I feel embarrassed it took me that long to decide!) with not wanting to be rude, not wanting to draw attention to myself, riding it out to see if it was going to get better.

    The speaker was rambling on and on and ON, giving a factual rambling account of his entire life. His life sounded FASCINATING, and, his style of delivering facts in a linear timeline style without really developing any points or being emotionally engaged felt like an abuse of my attention, really. I kept waiting for a pause or a moment to exit gracefully, and finally the voice in my head that asked “What about MY feelings??? Who is looking out for ME?” chimed in and I quietly got up and walked out.

    I didn’t really feel much about it, just the next thing. I got a comedy from the Redbox and went home to have a special date night with myself 🙂

    I feel no regrets and I feel good about myself for the choice I made 🙂

  96.  #96Beloved on May 21, 2015 at 9:05 am

    lovergirl – also, I’ve discovered there is a lot to be learned from saying no to what I don’t want.

    New Year’s Eve, I went to a live music show at my favorite venue that has an outdoor stage. The band decided to play indoors, which is basically on a patio, very cramped, nowhere to dance or move or hoop.
    I felt bitterly disappointed, I was SO looking forward to NYE with my friends and dancing barefoot in the sand and hooping to live music.
    I struggled with deciding to leave. This internal conflict manifested as a conversation with a friend where she half-heartedly tried to “reason” me out of leaving. I “should” make the best of it. I “should” be more focused on my friends and being with them than where the band was playing. I “should” just be grateful to be there. After a few minutes of talking to her, I was thinking…”who am I trying to convince?”

    I told her, “I love you and I need to go!”
    I even asked for my money back at the door, which was refunded with no hesitation. I asked myself what I really wanted to do, and I drove up and down the freeway watching all of the big fireworks displays (the terrain is very flat where I am, I could see a lot) and feeling very, very happy and satisfied with myself.

    What I learned from my interaction with my friends is that if I felt a conflict within and was seeking external validation for choosing to leave. Once I caught on to myself, I felt free to go.

    Oh, that feels good to remember!!!!

  97.  #97Indigo on May 21, 2015 at 9:17 am


    May I just say how much I LOVE the two posts you’ve just posted. I struggled for years with “shoulding” myself because I was raised to be polite at any cost. The trouble is, of course, that my inner self has VERY strong opinions on what it likes and doesn’t, what feels good and comfortable and what doesn’t, what I’m passionate about and what I’m not, what I love and what I don’t. And this created very strong conflict inside me, which I wrestled and wrestled with for such a long time. Every time I said no to my inner self, I felt like a butterfly with droopy wings, sad, unable to perk myself up. When I said yes to what my inner self wanted, I was filled with new energy and vigour. This whole politeness nonsense is a valuable social construct, BUT it can, and very often is, just a trap, to get us to tow the line and conform.

    Life is so much more beautiful since I decided I was going to do exactly as I please so long as I was not hurting anyone 🙂

  98.  #98Femininewoman on May 21, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Re 95 Beloved all I can say is Brilliant!!

  99.  #99Linda on May 21, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    On the subject of speaking your truth in feeling messages… I truly does raise ones confidence and is a really does wonders for you. Depending on the situation, sometimes I have a hard time clearly articulating how I am feeling but I am getting much better at it. It is a very different behavior than my well perfected “stuff and be pleasant” mode of operation.

    I have been practicing/doing this in lots of different types of relationships. It takes a self dedication to constantly staying in touch with what I am feeling. I used to only be able use generalized words to describe it like, bad or sad. My feeling messages have evolved into more defined words and being able to infuse them in my interactions with people leaves me feeling balanced ,authentic and peaceful.

    Speaking of balanced and peaceful…. My being open to P has come to an end. I shut it down. I have had all my “what if’s” that all his staying in contact with me raised answered. He is not capable of “hearing” or willing to really respond anything I had to say. It is crystal clear that he is NOT “my man”. He has several qualities of the type of man I want but HE is not him.

    I had wondered if the growth and healing that has happened in me would inspire the same in him. It didn’t . What it did do was intensify my ability to see things in him that were not ever going to be okay for me. He is a black belt “grudge holder” and he lets NOTHING “go”. It taints and infuses EVERY part of his life. I never saw these things before and but it made me see how “emotionally unavailable” he is. I never dreamed this was the root of the problem but it is. There were lots of things that did not make sense to me that do now.

    Over the last few weeks I have been encountering things that have been very off putting to me. Every time I would dig down and authentically communicate with him his responses were that of a man who had no intention of creating a new relationship (even though that is what he asked me to do with him) and was quite close up to me. Three months in to this , I had all become quite bored and disinterested with the pattern that had developed between us in what he did wanted to do (which always included somthing sexual) We did click this way very well… but for me it is all got to be tied in with a healthy emotional connection for it good and lasting for me. I was as open and authentic as I could be and shared how I felt. AGAIN I dug down and I was not blamie, closed, or but authentically shared in my feelings and what I needed in a very decisive and plain spoken way. His response? He chose to use it as an opportunity to side step it all and make it about him and focused on something from the past that happened over 2 years ago with my family and proceeded to threaten me with if I did not address and fix it then I should not even bother to contact him again. !!!! I was beyond flabbergasted and shocked. I could not believe what I read on my phone. It was the most blatant disregard of ME I have ever felt in my life! I still cant believe I would get that attitude from a man who pursued and pursued me because he loved me ???

    I felt anger like I had not felt EVER! I was LIVID. I embraced my rage and felt every little drop of it. I let it sit a few hours, even slept on it. The next day again rolled it all around in my head and heart until I had settled in myself and found my balance.

    I composed a text and sent it and immediately deleted it! (I did not want to re hash anything about it later) . I did not hold back or dress it up frilly clothes. I had no concern about him how he would feel, what he would think. I was not diplomatic in any way shape or form and told him not to worry about contact from me because I could guarantee that he would NEVER hear from me again.

    He sent 3 texts after. I only read part of the first one and I stopped when I saw the words” I love you”. My brain screamed BULL SH*T !!!! and hit delete.

  100.  #100Linda on May 21, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Beloved.. YES YES YES I get it. I made a strong move to CHOOSE ME . It feels so ALIVE and WORTH it.

    Indigo… I too have strong opinions. I was raised to be polite too. In fact, most often the word I hear used by others to describe me is “kind and nice” . Since feelings seemed so scary and uncontrollable… Logic and diplomacy was my choice of pursuits.

    The feeling side of me has always been there but it felt unsafe in there and I avoided it. After I discovered that the key to a “balanced self loving” me required me embracing that scary side of me, like so many of us here I had to face my big ol’ soup bowl and dive in. There are things in my soup I would soon just ignore but they are parts of me just the same. Owning my feelings even those less pretty ones have awaken things that make me feel like each breath I take is deeper and vibrant. Self acceptance is so HUGE.

    I like the imagery of the butterfly with droopy wings.It is such a fitting description of living life like I used to.

  101.  #101Mandy on May 21, 2015 at 2:16 pm


    Wow, I’m not sure why but I felt a rush of defensiveness just then at the laser-focusing comment, but I breathed and it came to me immediately, you care about this, and you want the best for me. *I feel guilty* Lol. I don’t like feeling defensive when someone wants to help me, and I feel like apologizing to you, really. Gotta remember not to jump to defensiveness.

    But…just so you do know…I talked with my mom yesterday, and she said, listen, you don’t need to rush into anything. You can take your time and throw yourself into something you like, and then when that is your focus the anxiety of these two situations with these two men will fall away and things will fall into place, but she said, you do not need to feel pressure to rush into anything at all…take your time.

    That’s been my plan all along, but I guess I’m pretty excited about G huh? Happens every time. Then I end up going from one monogamous long term relationship to another. When I first discovered Rori, it was because I wanted to be single, take a break, have no obligation to anyone, and figure out why my relationships ends so bitterly, also figure out why I’m a serial monogamist!!!!!!

    I WANT to feel free from all obligation at least for 6 months to a year. I am SO tired of being yelled at and gotten angry with because I’m not doing what the guy wants, and he’s just being a brat.

    So…dearest Indigo…trust me when I say…my brain says WAIT…my body is like RIGHT NOW…lol….so YES,
    you are very much on spot with what you have to tell me, wait, because you sense I get excited and laser-focus with the excitement, especially if I know I’m going to be treated right by the man.

    Thank you for your concern and I very much appreciate your care dear Siren…it does mean the world to me, you touch me every time you talk to me, and I think you are amazing at being a Siren. 🙂

  102.  #102Mandy on May 21, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    PS Indigo –

    OMG, the player gurus!!! They exist, trust me, I asked my dad about the rules of it, and what guys know to do to keep a woman on her toes…he said he is well aware of all those tactics, he used to use them when he was a young stud-muffin with model good looks, but now he devotes his life to my mother. 🙂

    So..players don’t always stay players 🙂 Sometimes they become wonderful husbands, if they are good men and masculine men, I believe…God love my dad! 🙂

    But I do have to say…AAAAAH! PLAYERS MAKE ME FEEL SO FRUSTRATED!!!!! 🙂

    I want to be able to counter their tactics LOL…

  103.  #103Beloved on May 21, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Linda – I remember you saying when you decided to give him another chance, something about your ‘crusty old heart’. It sounds like, since opening your heart up and being more forgiving, you and P are no longer a match. Frankly, I feel like doing a happy puppy dance, because it also sounds like, deep, deep down you GET that his behavior isn’t about YOU! 😀

  104.  #104Beloved on May 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    On the subject of “choosing me”, I don’t believe I fully GROKKED what that meant until FeminineWoman recently shared the story of her daughter choosing the young man she felt like she could be herself with. It was a lightbulb moment 😀 Thank you for that, I appreciate it!

    And…today I bought a new lock for my door (because I locked myself out a few days ago and drilled the cylinder on the old one…well, partially drilled it, TG finished it off). I walked in and showed it to TG, I DIDN’T SAY A WORD! I just smiled, he said, “Hey, you bought a lock for your door! That will only take a few minutes, do you want me to do that right now?”

    Yes, please. Yes, yes, please!! I was actually feeling guilty because it isn’t his fault I locked myself out, and I didn’t feel like I could POSSIBLY ask him to install this one, I was going to try to do it myself. Not be too much trouble, ya know.

    Less than 5 minutes later, it was done.
    Honestogoodness, I have NEVAH experienced so much ease with a man in any capacity.
    I am so, so grateful.


  105.  #105Tereana on May 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    I got some really interesting feedback from my ex, M, recently. He’s the one who’s revealed something very personal to me, which he never told me while we were dating. And he also told me that he didn’t think I had “expressed myself” very much while we were together. I look forward to talking to him in person so I can find out more about what he meant. But meanwhile, it’s interesting feedback because of course I thought that I had “expressed myself.” But maybe I hadn’t. Maybe I was expressing my thoughts and what I was thinking. And that this is somehow different from my “self.” But, to be honest, I am not sure I know that difference, or have much experience with it. Because most of the time I think of my thoughts, feelings and opinions as constituting “me.” Which of course is not really true. Btu that’s kind of how I’ve brought myself up to behave. And all along, I’ve had a very hard time with accepting my “self.” And lots of times, I’m not even sure who or what the “self” is that I am supposed to accept.

    This is a very big thing. This is potentially life-changing. Because my “self” has been hidden for so long, and even from me. I would like to get to know my self. My perception is that lots of people have seen glimpses of me, and they like me very much. I would like to know who this person is that they love so well. I bet she’s really cool. In fact, I bet she’s awesome. I’d like to take some time to get to know her again.

  106.  #106Labbit on May 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    Victoria and Indigo, I very much enjoyed your exchange this morning. 🙂 Perhaps yesterday to you by the time you read this!

  107.  #107Labbit on May 21, 2015 at 5:22 pm

    Wow ladies, just wow. I feel like a completely different person as I’m writing this.

    As advised here yesterday I just let the rage and anger and temper tantrum flow around inside of me. It wasn’t easy and I didn’t like it at times, but I gave all those feelings space inside of me. I woke up this morning still feeling off. Sometime over the course of today though all those nasty feelings broke free of me. I felt it, a physical opening up and then a lighter feeling, like a weight had been lifted off of me!

    And now…peace. Relaxation. Happiness! On my ride home from work on the train I was thinking to myself…this is what it feels like to act from love. All the fear and insecurity and anger has, for the moment, lifted. I don’t need anything. I feel whole, complete, peaceful, RADIANT. It’s so awesome!! I feel more like MYSELF than I have in a very long time. I can remember a time in my life when I felt this way consistently. I feel like I’m welcoming back an old friend inside of myself.

    It makes me so happy that I gave those feelings I didn’t like some room inside of me yesterday. I guess they were rushing forth to find an exit, a way out of me. I’m so glad I didn’t spew any of it out on Tender as the old me would have…I’m so glad I didn’t spew it out on ANYONE, not even myself. Hmm…what a brilliant thing this is. I’m mystified by it all!

    Nothing has changed and yet it all feels different today. Tender’s still going camping, though he’s on his way over now to cook me a fabulous dinner and stay the night before he heads off. I feel much more relaxed and non-needy about his camping trip now. Giving myself some time to let those feelings rush around was a great thing.

    I’m so delighted by all the support from you Sirens, thank you for all your comments and feedback!! I hope my happiness is radiating out onto each of you…I want to share it and give my thanks. 🙂

  108.  #108Liquid Light on May 21, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    Ah, yes, Players, this is a timely topic for me today.

    I had a really off-putting encounter, or should I say close encounter, with someone yesterday from POF.

    I had recently even described him as a Player to a friend of mine even though I hardly knew him. It was just an impression, a feeling, and it turns out, I was right.

    We were supposed to meet last night for a drink to celebrate our birthdays. We’ve both had big birthdays in the last week or so (I’m talking BIG) and he suggested we get together to celebrate together. Nice thought.

    So the plan was to meet at a bar for a glass of wine. Then he texts me shortly before and says he will be 5 min late and can we meet in the parking lot and walk in together.

    It felt weird to me and I besides I was exhausted from work and not really that excited about meeting him or anyone last evening.

    I texted back Why? I’m really tired so why don’t we meet next week. I’m not going to be much fun tonight anyway.

    I don’t normally do this but something felt off to me.

    I’m so glad I did because he ended up responding and suggesting that he come over and give me a message and that he had a bottle of wine to share.

    That was his plan all along, he never intended to meet me at the bar.

    Ughh. Then when I didn’t respond, he went off on a rant and said I either crazy or on meds and that he hoped he would never see me again.

    Fine with me.

    This was someone I met once over a year ago.

    So weird and scary that there are creeps out there like this.

    I should have trusted my gut instinct and not agreed to meet him in the first place. Lesson learned but it really kinda bummed me out. 🙁

  109.  #109Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    94 Beloved-

    Congrats on walking out of the church service 😉 In all my years of being married to a man in ministry, the only times I ever walked out were because of a crying baby (though that can be a handy excuse, ha!).

    I have a really hard time doing anything that could be deemed “impolite”. So walking out of a movie or something would be a huge step for me. Sticking around really didn’t feel good at all though.

  110.  #110Labbit on May 21, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    78 Millie — Ohmigod, I used to think these traits would go away too! And with time I do think they evolve, some fade away, other new traits emerge. But mostly no person can have all good traits and no bad traits…there is always some tradeoff. I am mostly a happy, optimistic, vivacious, maybe a little bossy and stubborn person. With some insecurity mixed in.

    Even someone like my dear Tender, who I think of so highly (but not on a pedestal), has his own downside. He is terribly hard on himself…and can sometimes let himself sink into a funk when he’s being particularly tough on himself about something. He’ll talk about decisions he made 10 years ago and how upset they still make him…how he feels ‘behind’ in life because of choices he made in the past. When he talks about these things I feel shocked. I think…YOU?!? You who has an amazing career, are a great success, and a wonderful temperament, you think of yourself as less than?!? As behind somehow?? It blows my mind. And yet I see that it is the balance to some of his better traits…his human, vulnerable side. It really does make me love him all the more when he shows this side to me. Not that I want him to be sad, but that he isn’t perfect, has fears and hopes and rough spots just like the rest of us.

  111.  #111Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    I feel like I am an expert on players. 😉 Almost every guy I have ever dated, minus my ex husband, has been one. Plus, several years ago, when I had an affair (total imaginary relationship and we only had sex a handful of times before my divorce- but the whole thing before & after divorce lasted 5 years), I searched “how to manipulate women” because someone told me that there were men with whole forums dedicated to this.

    I then discovered a forum (that no longer exists) full of “pick up art!sts” and got to know some of them quite well (online). I feel fairly well versed in their tactics.

    S has books on his shelf by this guy who markets himself as teaching men how to be “macks”, p!mps and players, lolol. I’ve read some of them and just roll my eyes.

    Anyway, following Rori’s rules will weed out a lot of them. They tend to be over concerned with not wanting to pay for dates and not pursuing women but trying to get US to pursue them.

  112.  #112Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    I feel like I am an expert on players. 😉 For some reason my comments won’t show up when I post about why but I’ve been in contact with a lot of them! S even has books on his shelf about how to be a mack to women (eyeroll).

    Anyhow, Rori’s tactics will tend to weed most of them out. They tend to be overconcerned with not paying for dates or pursuing women, but rather trying to get US to chase them.

  113.  #113Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    Beloved 95-

    Yay for you, walking out from a situation you weren’t feeling!

    Chicago gets the point now, anyhow, that I am not cool with the violence in movies. He claimed he didn’t really understand what I meant the first time around, but come on. He made a comment about how he didn’t realize that I could do “absolutely no violence” and I was like I didn’t say that, but that was one of the more disturbing movies I have ever seen.

    It reminds me of when a guy I was dating in college wanted to watch A Clockwork Orange. I know lots of people love it and its a cult classic and all that but I hated it. We were were watching it in the lobby of my dorm and I actually did get up and leave. Maybe I was instinctively better at this stuff back then- it was the guy I dated right before I met my ex husband.

  114.  #114Femininewoman on May 21, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    haha 🙂 blackbelt grudge holder

  115.  #115Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    It has been almost 4 days since I have heard from S. Not even a text since we spent his birthday together. This is really bothering me. He never used to do the disappearing act and this is the longest time he has gone without contacting me. It seems like it keeps getting longer lately.

    Part of me feels very angry, because I got upset with him the last time we had sex and he did this. Is he really going to do it again? I feel kind of betrayed. I also feel abandoned, and scared. Is this going to be his new pattern of behavior? WTH?

    I’m scared that he is trying to turn what we have had the past year into a “just sex” thing. I know it was not a technical, committed relationship, but he himself has said there is no way we cannot call it a “relationship” because really it has been. He said he considers what he has had with me as one of the big “relationships” in his life.

    I feel confused, frustrated, and hurt. Why is he doing this?? It’s causing me a lot of anxiety.

    I know I am not supposed to be worrying about his reasons, its just very hard. It is stressing me out.

    Rori and the coaches sites that I have looked at, all say not to ask why didn’t you call, and to accept him back with open arms, but I am feeling untrusting. I don’t want to be a doormat and just let him “downgrade” me from what we had before.

    I have gone out with Chicago twice since I saw him, but my mind is still with S. I’ve tried to distract myself but it isn’t working very well. I’m afraid of what is going through his mind, why he isn’t calling.

    A big part of me wants to be confrontational when he does call (because I know he will eventually, even though it doesn’t feel like it). I want to say this makes me feel awful, I feel used, and to make it 100% clear that its not okay to go this long without contacting me after sex.

    I don’t know. I just don’t know. If I am warm towards him, is that just hiding my feelings and allowing myself to be walked on?

  116.  #116Kim on May 21, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    A man does what he wants lovergirl, and it is up to you whether you accept it as enough for you or not.
    Up there you said you were cool with not being in a relationship, well a man who is not in a relationship and not committed to a woman behaves just like S does, so why are you frustrated and angry?
    This is why CDing is great..and leaning back and not giving everything to a guy when he is not committed…because there is no incentive for him to win you when he already has all of you with minimal effort.
    There is so much great literature about all this freely available on this very website…tons of articles. I have always found it very helpful to read them when I felt like getting into a man’s head – which is really none of our business…

  117.  #117Lovergirl on May 21, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    Kim 114-

    I’m frustrated and confused because this is fairly NEW behavior from him. He didn’t used to do this and I don’t like it. I am worried that he is trying to change things into something different than what we have had before and I don’t like it. I do have expectations, expectations that he is not going to start treating me differently than he always has.

    I’m trying to CD. Hence the two dates with Chicago this past few days. I can’t go out every night though. I have kids and have to be here with them. I’ve been chatting with a couple of guys on POF, but they never seem to step up and actually ask me on a date. Or I give them my number and they give me theirs, like they expect me to call THEM and I don’t. Sigh….

    I have looked at some of the articles. I know I’m not supposed to be in his business but it is HARD to not think about! Like, I know he was going out for a belated birthday dinner with his dad sometime this week. It’s also very likely his ex girlfriend would take him out sometime for his bday too (they are platonic now but still do stuff like that). Still, none of that is any reason to not contact me at ALL. I feel sick over it.

  118.  #118Tereana on May 21, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    I just want to take a minute to thank the Sirens here and the whole blog. It’s been years, and I still feel supported here. I feel like this is a place I can always come back to when I need to write something out and process what’s going on in my life. That’s so valuable. Thank you 🙂

  119.  #119Tereana on May 21, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Azure (90) – Thanks for your support, so much!!

    In truth, it didn’t feel like a “no” exactly. It felt like “no” when he wasn’t calling me or telling me what was going on. I felt like I was begging for attention that he wasn’t giving me. But when he actually told me what was happening, and we talked about it, face to face (over video chat), I was comforted by at least having the knowledge, like you said. And then to be able to move forward that into what feels best for me.

    And….I have a new thing that feels best to me. I’m going to tell you all about that in a second. I just have to get something ready : )

  120.  #120Tereana on May 21, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    Full disclosure: I do still miss V. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t. I felt so comfortable and warm and safe in his arms. He brought a lot of fun into my life. I enjoyed every minute with him. Even the minutes where I felt cranky or not as beautiful. I feel grateful for having met him. He’s a sweet and good guy, even when he makes mistakes or misses the mark. I’m missing him. And that’s ok

  121.  #121Linda on May 21, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Beloved – yes you are right! I actually feel thankfully weepy about it. I am looking forward to what is ahead for me and a mans heart that mirrors mine.

  122.  #122Victoria on May 21, 2015 at 11:35 pm

    Lovergirl 113,
    If there is one thing I am learning from this site, it is to graciously take “no” for an answer.
    I am still not very good at it myself… I wish I would always get “yes” to my requests and would not feel misunderstood/rejected.
    If a man wants to see you, he will call you. If a man is not calling you and not seeing you, this is because he likes doing something else better at this very moment.
    Boy, this hurts. I love spending time with him, being in his arms, basking in his love, I would rather do this and be with him more than anything else in the world. How come he does not feel like that? How come? Did I do something wrong? Did he lie to me when he said how much he likes the same things as I do.
    This thing about welcoming a man with open arms… it does not work if you have been waiting for him, not doing anything else, and have been getting more and more bitter about his silence. It will be totally unathentic to welcome him with open arms if you are angry and frustrated inside and would rather slap him in the face. How dare you do that to me. The more I am witnessing such cases (and I see quite a few in real life with my friends), the woman might as well just brow up in the man’s face, get him really pissed off, because this is what happens when a man if made to feel guilty for not calling (or anything else for that matter), have a big row and be done with the relationship. It is quite painful, but might in fact be the shorter route to going back to the dating market.
    The other option, to welcome the man back with open arms in an authentic way, is, in my mind only possible if you truly have a very active life, and you are so busy with yourself/other friends/kids/hobbies/CDs, that, while his absense from you life is notable, it is not upsetting you.
    I am trying to develop this one for myself…
    And I thank you so much for telling your story here, it is so much easier to see which behaviour makes sense when you watch other people.

  123.  #123Millie on May 22, 2015 at 1:06 am

    Just got home from a first date/meeting. He was really nice! Overall he seemed very thoughtful and serious about what he wants… I thought the date was going well until he walked me to my car, gave me a quick hug and said “see ya later.” It did catch me by surprise as I thought he seemed very present and interested, even suggesting if it wasn’t a weeknight we could have another drink. But who knows… Only him! Meeting new guys is fun, but I still have this weird feeling of “ok, now I want to go home to M.” It’s kind of subconscious. Damaging I’m sure. Linda what you said to Lovergirl makes so much sense and rings true for me too– as far as what he says is true but for whatever reason he is choosing to be elsewhere right now, not with me. It does hurt because I don’t feel that same way. But I understand that authentically I need to enjoy my life and all these new dates without him. Only then will I be ready….
    Oh the date just text me…. So maybe I was wrong… We shall see!

  124.  #124Millie on May 22, 2015 at 1:07 am

    Correction: Victoria’s post to Lovergirl **

  125.  #125Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 1:14 am


    I’m sorry if I made you feel defensive with what I said, and that I was laser focusing in on you. I am glad you can see it is only from a position of care that I say it.

  126.  #126Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 1:15 am

    I feel as if we have all shared in your journey so much, and I would just like to see you succeed and not get badly hurt again.

  127.  #127Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 2:39 am


    I know you think S is “changing the rules” by holding off on contacting you, and going several days without calling after you’ve had sex, but the way I see it this is very typical male behaviour. It can absolutely be expected and predicted.

    For what it’s worth, I think that he knows you guys have spent some close, intimate time together and so he is withdrawing. He can only handle so much intimacy at a time. You can let him know that it’s “unacceptable” but I don’t think that’s going to change anything. It’s all he’s capable of. Kim and Victoria are quite right. You only have to decide if you can accept and live with what he’s giving. If you’re not sure you want committed – well, this is what uncommitted looks like.

    I love what Victoria has said – learn to take no for an answer, get busy with something else, forget about him…. and please don’t blast him when he does call. That’s all he can do and he’s been upfront with you about that. Take back the power and don’t wait around for him… make your *own* decisions.

  128.  #128Femininewoman on May 22, 2015 at 2:54 am

    it is so typical man behavior.

    I so disagree.

  129.  #129Kath on May 22, 2015 at 4:09 am

    Hi Ladies,

    I have felt tearful and low for the past few days after seeing my X on the same dating site as me!!!- God that hurt!- Crazy to admit but I knew that he wasn’t the man for me but the thing that hurts is now knowing that he thinks I’m not the woman for him!-

    I cried and cried and felt so bad- sunk down into my feelings and realised that it was triggering my feelings of not feeling worthy- GRRRR!!!!

    Today I read through all your posts and now feel soo much better about myself!- I know I am attractive, worthy, intelligent and capable of real love-I just haven’t met the right guy yet.

    Its literally 12 days ago that we broke up for the second and last time and he signed up to the dating site last week. I had a text row with him because I lashed out at seeing photos he’d used which I had taken of him- he has since changed them- but why would I be so angry at him using photos that I had taken?- because I felt they were “ours”- wierd isn’t it?-

    I know I am working through a lot of stuff and letting go of the relationship I had with him-because I really hoped it would work out- but it didn’t and it was never going to and I have to accept that I am still looking through rose coloured specs at times- It wasn’t the perfect relationship, he wasn’t and isn’t the perfect man for me. Even reading his profile (I know!) it made me giggle because it was stretching the truth!- still good luck to him- he’s never been on his own for long- and this is no different- from one woman to another, constantly looking for someone to make him feel better about himself without doing the work on himself he should be doing.

    I am hanging on to the thought that if I feel bad now something good is on its way!! xx

  130.  #130Tereana on May 22, 2015 at 4:43 am

    Hey, Ladies!!

    So, here it is…my new project. Some of you have heard me talk about fashion design and being a stylist before. It’s one of those things that seems to be always in my life, no matter what I do. And now I want to make it official. I want to make it my life. And I have the opportunity to do it. I just need a little help. Maybe from you?

    This community is so supportive. And we all know that a woman who is doing what she loves and feels passionate about is soooo much sexier and more attractive – to everyone. Am I right?

    And that’s how I feel about this. I feel a pull toward Chicago. Yes, to study fashion design. And I have this underlying feeling that somehow, in that process, I’m going to meet someone who will be the right kind of person for me. Mainly because I’m going to be the right kind of person for me. AKA I will be living my life and being who I need to be.

    So…will you support my Siren Adventure? I feel open and vulnerable asking for this. I don’t even know if we can do this here on the blog. I won’t spam. But I will change the link on my name to this page.

    So if you want to read more about it, go here:

    And feel free to ask me any questions you like. Love you all!! 🙂 xoxoxoxxoxoxo

  131.  #131Kim on May 22, 2015 at 5:12 am

    126 FW I agree with you.
    I have found those who distanced themselves in a major way after having been intimate, to be the man boys or the unavailables or the ‘not interested in more than sex’ men.

    A healthy, committed and loving man does not just go without contact for days on end once he has been intimate with a woman, unless he is not into it. I have found quite the opposite actually, men getting closer and eanting to get closer to the woman. Providing they want, and are able to have a relationship with her.

  132.  #132Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 5:37 am

    Kim & FW,

    I mean it is typical for an uncommitted man. Such as Lovergirl’s S.

  133.  #133Sangelina on May 22, 2015 at 6:30 am


    You said he wasn’t giving you crumbs, unfortunately,
    this is what crumbs look like!

    He might intentionally decide to delay contacting you just so you don’t read too much meaning into the time you spent together. Just to continue to reinforce his point that you are not his girlfriend.

    You hang a lot of hope on things he says (in a moment of passion). Watch more closely what a man DOES not what he SAYS.

    Is this still what you want? If yes, you have no right to make any demands on him. You are not in a relationship. You are friends with benefits. He has done nothing wrong.

  134.  #134Beloved on May 22, 2015 at 7:02 am

    When You Wonder Why They Stay With You Or Keep Coming Back When They Don’t Want The Relationship You Want

    The full article is at :

    It can be pretty difficult to wrap your head around the idea that the person who you’re in love with and may have spent a great deal of time around, doesn’t want the relationship that you want. It puts you in a quagmire – you love them, you want to be with them, but in the process of doing so, you’re basically compromising yourself because whatever it is that they are offering (if anything), it might be leaving you dissatisfied or even ‘malnourished’. What can be incredibly perplexing and even painful though, is when they stick around (and you let them) but they still won’t cough up the relationship goods, or they go but they keep boomeranging in and out of your life, raising your hopes each time.

    This situation will be all too familiar to you if you’ve thought stuff like, What the hell do they want with me? Why, if they know that they can’t give me what I want, are they still hanging around like a blue arsed fly letting me think that it’s a possibility?

    One of two things are going to happen: You’re going to end up managing down your expectations until one day it suddenly occurs to you that your needs, wants, and expectations aren’t being met while they’re having a grand ‘ole time on their terms. Or, you end up in one of those awkward, standoff power struggles where you each keep trying to get your own way instead of just walking away.

    When you find that you’re at odds with one another on the direction or even existence of the relationship this is really a code red alert that something is very wrong. It’s also a reality check – you need to fully evaluate the situation and rein your feelings in. It doesn’t mean that they’re shady (although they might be) but it does mean that you’re incompatible on what you both want out of the relationship which likely signals a clash of values.

    You’ve either got to have an honest conversation and find a healthy compromise (if possible) or for the sake of your own self-preservation, make an exit even though it’s going to hurt.

    If they turn around and say that they want to keep it casual when you’re actually looking to move forward into a serious relationship, I wouldn’t go into it because I can guarantee that it will end in big dollopy tears that belong to you. If you’re saying “Let’s move in” and they’re saying that they do want to move in (with you) but not just yet, then you can potentially find a compromise.

    Unfortunately what tends to happen is you’ll either 1) dismiss the red flag, 2) blame you for the fact that they don’t want the same things and convince yourself that you’ve done something to jeopardise the relationship, or 3) take up a vocation in trying to change them. You may have a Return On Investment mentality of “I’ve put in X months/years so I cannot exit now because it would be a waste” neglecting to realise that if you ignore what the difference is telling you, you might be like a reader I recently spoke with who clocked up 12 years with someone whose position never changed and she’d known it from a few years in.

    The problem is of course that the type of person who would hang around knowing that you want something different (or at least that you profess to) or who would keep a foothold in your life and be pretty damn disruptive while still coming back with the same paltry offering that you didn’t want or even less, is actually the type of person that you need to ensure that you do right by you because… they are really only thinking about things from their perspective and what makes them comfortable without really giving a great deal of thought to your comfort levels. In fact they may have an “I’m comfortable so they must be comfortable” attitude.

    Keep in mind as well that they may outwardly claim that they’ve changed and are on board but the will passive aggressively do things that contradict this and undermine your relationship.

    You may feel like you’re being ‘toyed’ with, especially if you’ve broken up a number of times and tried your best to move on, only for them to swoop in with big promises and short-term changes in their behaviour that soon roll back to their old ways. They can have a dog in a manger attitude – they don’t want you but they’re hogging up the proverbial manger and blocking access to you just in case they happen to change their mind.

    I also know from personal experience how easy it is to be blinded by our feelings / libido / ego, but, you are giving off mixed messages. You’re thinking “Why the hell are they still here when they know I want ________” and they’re thinking, even if it’s on a subconscious level “Well they can’t really want it that much if they keep being with me and they know I’m not interested in that.”

    You’re thinking that you’re showing your love and commitment to them and they think you’ve signed on to their terms and conditions.

    You may also be thinking that their continued presence or their inability to leave you alone is a sign of their deep feelings and them gradually coming over to your way of thinking – unfortunately I’ve heard enough tales to know that actually, it’s not that they don’t care or love you but their commitment issues and differing values mean that they hold onto you because they’re afraid of losing you and so do their best to stall you until you run out of patience and chances.

  135.  #135Beloved on May 22, 2015 at 7:13 am

    lovergirl – well, what’s kind of interesting and cool is, I feel YOU have been showing new behavior, as well. You’ve been honest about how it feels to be working for him, knowing he’s with other women. You’ve taken a stronger stand for yourself and what you really want.

    I feel it’s a natural reaction, for him to continue to distance himself, the more clear you get about what you really want. You are less and less of a match for someone who doesn’t want to commit to you.

  136.  #136Femininewoman on May 22, 2015 at 7:33 am

    Thanks for sharing that article Beloved

  137.  #137Femininewoman on May 22, 2015 at 7:39 am

    RE 133 – Reminds me of the concepts in the book Power vs Force.

  138.  #138Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 9:10 am

    {{{{Beloved #132}}}}

    I have given myself time to process and be
    sad about my break up with Spirit…
    It is causing me deep trauma
    For now…
    Thank you Thank you Thank you
    Darling Siren for posting THIS!!!!
    It is what MY heart, soul and mind needed to hear!!!
    THIS is exactly how I am feeling!!!
    Why does Spirit continue to pursue me
    When I have expressed what it is I need!!!
    and he says that is what HE wants
    but keeps withdrawing!!!

    I love the “dog in the manger” analogy
    That’s it Exactly…
    Spirit for sure doesn’t want my “Hay”
    But he wants to make sure I don’t get
    the hay from anyone else either…
    and as long as I keep letting him come back
    He’ll keep doing his “running hot and cold”

    This is giving me the courage to continue
    moving OUT of Spirits energy…
    and INTO MY Happily Ever After!!

  139.  #139Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Yeah he WASN’T giving me crumbs. He’s never gone this long without contacting me. He has always ACTED more like we were in a committed relationship, even though we were not. THAT is why this is making me so confused and why I am having a hard time with it.

    OTHER men, yes, they act like this, but it has never been S. He’s always kept in regular contact and would call and talk for hours on the phone, almost every night. It is very odd for S to behave like this.

    He KNOWS it pissed me off the last time, when I flipped on him about the swinger party. I had told him I felt “pumped and dumped”. So why, if he wants me in his life in any capacity, would he do it AGAIN?

    This is why I am feeling angry! I am not sure I will be able to follow the advice to greet him warmly and openly. I FEEL like telling him off! I feel like saying, hey look, this isn’t going to work for me. If you are going to disappear on me for days/a week/however long after seeing me/sleeping together, then I am going to have to say no to hanging out with you or having sex.

    I just don’t know, because all the advice I am reading is saying to be warm and open when a man comes back. I feel like that is a big risk because then I feel like a doormat and I’m not expressing my true feelings. Maybe I should try it though, once, and see if it works. If the disappearing act continues though, I don’t think I can. I feel so mistrustful of him right now.

    We’ve been seeing each other for over a year, and he’s never been the type to pull a disappearing act. He has ALWAYS kept in fairly regular contact with me. It’s one of the things I loved about him. I felt SAFE that he wasn’t one to pull this crap.

    I know I’m supposed to be trying to get my mind off him, but its just NOT WORKING. If I’m out on a date with Chicago, my heart and mind are still with S. If a zillion men are hitting on me, it makes no difference. It barely registers. If I’m doing fun stuff with my kids or whatever, it helps for a little bit but there is still that aching feeling of missing S and wondering WHY. 🙁

  140.  #140Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 9:21 am

    based on one of Beloved lovely posts…
    Shoulda woulda coulda…
    I am flipping this…
    I feel soooo happy the universe
    gave Spirit and i the 2nd opportunity
    to be exclusive
    and try out different ways
    of interacting so see if we could
    be together…
    We both tried….
    We both changed/compromised
    and now we will gently and firmly
    move on toward our own lives…
    happy that we met and were able to
    spend time together!
    without spending ANYMORE
    TIME!! :-))

  141.  #141Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Victoria 120-

    Yes, everything you are saying makes total sense. He doesn’t want to talk to me, or he would be. Ouch. 🙁 That just makes me want to cry.

    His last text to me was so sweet, and talked about how he cares about me and how much he enjoyed spending his birthday with me. So now he doesn’t like me anymore? Its so fu**ing confusing!!

    I know I need to focus on my own life and not think about him. Because whether he comes back or not, that is important. If he does and I am doing that, I will be in a better state of mind and if he doesn’t, I will be able to move on better.

  142.  #142Femininewoman on May 22, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Lovergirl I feel so happy that you capitalized “ACTED”. Obviously your higher self knows what is going on though you logical mind and conscious self is still in denial.

  143.  #143Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Millie 122-

    I so understand the dating but still thinking of one guy. I don’t really feel like I understand men at all, how they can seem so sincere, yet pull away :/ That’s great that your date texted you again.

  144.  #144Millie on May 22, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Beloved– I had a situation like this SPOT on! Word for word exactly haha!! What ended up causing me to finally be able to walk out and not look back was seeing a tattoo of another woman’s name on his arm. A woman who he wanted to marry and have kids with, which he always told me he didn’t want. I then realized he didn’t want them with ME, I had always thought the roof was there for all women, but the roof was only over me. After some tears I was able to walk out and KNOW without a doubt that I never needed to look back and that the limbo was over.

  145.  #145Femininewoman on May 22, 2015 at 9:33 am

    “that aching feeling of missing S and wondering WHY”

    I have received advice from several coaches “a man who keeps you wondering is a man who wants you wondering. He does not want to be in a committed relationship with you”. A man who really wants you will never take the chance of have you wondering what is up with him.

  146.  #146Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 9:34 am

    I know it is sooo hard what you are going through….
    I am sorry…
    Read carefully – as I have-
    Beloved post #132
    I have found it profoundly reassuring and helpful…

    Rori and all of the coaches don’t say to NOT express your wants and feelings “after HE comes back”
    First express your happiness about hearing his voice… seeing his text
    *IF* you are feeling angry, disconnected and confused
    YOU are Supposed to share this in Feeling messages!!!
    Something like….
    “I’m feeling disconnected/angry.
    Quality time is my love language
    and when I dont get that I start to feel distant and detatched.
    It feels icky to me to chase you
    and I dont want to row the boat in this relationship.
    I just need to know where you are at so I can know what I need to do. Can you help me with this?”

  147.  #147Millie on May 22, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Lovergirl– yes it is difficult but I feel determined to shift my vibe into not wanting him anymore, into not wanting someone who doesn’t really want me, into not longing for someone who has behaved badly. It’s one think to know those things and another to really feel and BE those feelings. That is my challenge that I am willing to take on!! CDing is pretty fun– this morning I kinda feel like “bring on the men!” Yeah, he text me to make sure I got home ok and started thanking me for meeting him and telling me how pretty I am. 🙂 positive responses definitely help!!

  148.  #148Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Millie #145
    Ahhh… lovely my darling,
    Soooo happy to hear you are getting some positive
    responses from your CDing!!!
    Helps soooo much in our moving away
    from our ex’s

  149.  #149Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Indigo 125-

    Yes, its typical of other men, but its never been typical of S. I just don’t get why he’s suddenly incapable of something he’s been quite capable of, over the course of the past year.

    We’ve had lots and lots of intimate times together, though maybe in some ways, these recent encounters have been MORE so. That’s a thought. I have been more openly expressing my feelings to him and that may be making things more intense/difficult for him to handle. HE has been more open about his feelings towards me lately as well.

    Like on his birthday, when we were lying on the couch watching a movie, there were a couple of times where he would reach over me and hold my hand, interlocking fingers. In the past, he’s been weird about hand holding and not wanting to do it, even though we did all kinds of other intimate touching. So that felt like kind of a big step.

    He’s been looking in my eyes a lot, constantly kissing on my neck, talking about wanting to take me on vacation, just seeming overall MORE into me- then the disappearances? Arrrgggh!! It’s making me mad! (like crazy mad, more so even than angry, lol)

    Because of your relationship with D and how you have described it, your posts are especially encouraging to me. I know you’ve done this a few times!! I am really going to try and just do my own thing!!

  150.  #150Victoria on May 22, 2015 at 9:46 am

    You are smart and inventive. You need to find something, one thing, that makes your brain fully engaged. Or, you need to keep looking to find something engaging, and sooner or later, eventually, something will click.
    I know for sure, from experience, 100%, that when you STOP thinking of him, your vibe changes, and he will come back. I am not sure why it works, but it works like a charm. The trick is, you need to REALLY stop thinking about him. How you do that is up to you.
    The other thing is, why he blows hot and cold. It does not matter why. The question is – what do you do with this information. Pine after him or pour love on yourself and work on your life?
    Last but not least, the reason you can’t have this man is because the Universe has someone better for you in mind. I know this is hard to believe right now, but I am absolutely sure that if you would just allow this one to go (if he would) that would open up the space for a better man.

  151.  #151Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Sangelina 131-

    I have been watching what he does, for the past year. I have always felt he acts like someone who wants me as his girlfriend, even thought he SAYS otherwise. Until now, now I am confused because his actions are starting to change.

    He may be trying to drive in the point that I am not his girlfriend- or something else may be changing. When he has tried to pull away before, it was because he said he was feeling “too attached”. Maybe the recent levels of intimacy are scary to him. I really don’t know, and I know its not a good idea to try and get too much into his head.

    So I guess I need to keep watching what he DOES. Watching, and taking note, but not necessarily taking action just yet, because it would be based on trying to read his mind.

  152.  #152Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Beloved 132/133-

    Thank you for the article. Perhaps he is distancing himself from me because I am being more clear. I don’t know and I guess only time will tell.

  153.  #153Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Femininewoman 140-

    There has never been any doubt in my mind as to whether or not S was already committed to me. I know that he is not. My reason for coming here to this site to begin with was to see if there was ANY possibility for that ever to change. I wanted to see if there is any hope for he and I to ever have something different.

  154.  #154Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 10:03 am

    LINDA #98!!!!
    WOW… thank you for sharing this!!!
    You are a BRAVE Siren for practicing
    Feeling messages and Siren tools
    to see if it was possible to have a relationship
    with P
    And just like Rori says/// it either works
    OR we become BORED!!! :0))

    Sounds like what I had tried with Spirit!!!

    LINDA….Now that you have Spent time giving YOURSELF
    Soooo much love, respect, acceptance and
    You were able to see with clear eyes
    he is NOT YOUR Man!!

    I love what you wrote here:
    “He is a black belt “grudge holder” and he lets NOTHING “go”. It taints and infuses EVERY part of his life. I never saw these things before and but it made me see how “emotionally unavailable” he is.”

    I think Spirit was a “Grudge holder”… although he never really said (mention little things here and there)…
    So how could *I* ever apologize/discuss it…
    if he’s keeping allll the things HE”S upset about
    festering on and on and NEVER letting me know???

    So proud you can now move forward
    with NO REGRETS!!!

  155.  #155Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:09 am

    Femininewoman 143-

    Again, I already know S and I are not in a committed relationship. That was not our original intent when we met, so for him to act like a typical guy pursuing a long term relationship with me from the get-go, would make no sense.

    I do know that SOME men change their minds. My sister is living with a guy, who at one point said they couldn’t be together because of her (two) children. He wasn’t ready for a commitment. Now, he has taken on the father role towards her children and they are serious. There was a time when he wouldn’t even introduce her to his friends and it made her very anxious and upset. They almost broke up.

    My daughter’s speech therapist recently got engaged. She has a gigantic rock on her finger and is all smiles from a recent vacation where he proposed. She told me she thought he was never going to do it, that he hemmed and hawed and took so long to commit that she wasn’t sure it was ever going to happen. Not every man starts out looking for it. Some men just seem to take their time in coming around.

  156.  #156Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 10:14 am


    Victoria is quite right. Men can feel your vibe, and when you’ve completely forgotten about him, he will come back. One thing I encourage you to do while you’re trying to find something else to occupy your mind and attention, is to think of what you really WANT in a relationship. What would it look like? How would you spend your life together? What would a happy day in your ideal relationship look like? Get imaginative, think of every aspect of it, personalise it for you. Make it as real as possible. I spent lots of time thinking about this when D was having his withdrawing spells. I just think this confusion will continue until you know what you really want.

    For me, once I had this vision of my ideal relationship and life firmly in my mind, my life started steering itself in that direction. It’s like the rudder of a ship.

  157.  #157Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Azure 144-

    You are right they do say to express yourself AFTER the original “I am so happy to hear from you” message. My challenge is not to be sarcastic about it, lol “gee, I’m so happy to hear from you (finally!!!!)”. Well, maybe not. I’ll probably feel some happiness whenever I do hear from him. It will be a relief from all this anxiety for sure.

    I guess I will have to see how I am actually feeling when he finally contacts me. I can’t believe he is taking so long! It’s nearing 5 days! I will go back and read that post again too.

  158.  #158Beloved on May 22, 2015 at 10:24 am

    lovergirl – my guess is he is in uncertainty.

    You changed your behavior, your feelings changed to wanting something more, his is also changing. It can’t go on exactly the way it was before because it wasn’t totally real. He could only see you as a slut before (by your account of what he’s said), now he is seeing you as more.

    I feel you MUST MUST MUST get your mind off of him and on your own life, your own care, health and well-being, if there is any chance with him. Do what you need to do to take care of your OWN feelings of uncertainty.

  159.  #159Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Millie 145-

    I feel happy for you that you are taking that stand and moving forward. So glad you are having fun and that is a positive sign that you heard from the CD.

  160.  #160Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Victoria 148-

    Thank you. You are right that I need to pour love on myself and stop thinking so much about him. I know, from experience as well, that this really DOES seem to work!

    I’m not really convinced that there is someone better for me out there. Maybe…but maybe not. I don’t really think I WANT anyone else.

  161.  #161Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Indigo 154-

    It would feel good to think about my ideal relationship. Yet, at the same time, it is scary, terrifying, because I don’t know if there is any chance in the world I will ever be able to have it. 🙁 It is also hard to imagine it with anyone other than S. I’m afraid to let myself dream of what may be a complete impossibility, given my situation of having 5 children in the home.

  162.  #162Lovergirl on May 22, 2015 at 10:53 am

    Beloved 156-

    I have to quickly correct you that what S said was that he can NOT view me as a slut!! Not that that is how he views me, lol. He says he CAN’T see me like that.

    It’s funny, 3 months after meeting him, S is the one who brought up the relationship talk. Usually it is the woman, but at that time I was okay with the FWB thing. He said he was finding himself dreaming of a future with me and that he thought and thought about it but that he didn’t think he could do it because of my situation.

    This is what caused our first real argument. I was so upset that he was planting these thoughts, these ideas, these POSSIBILITIES in my head then giving me the letdown of saying it wouldn’t happen. I cried, we had a huge blowout because I said I never ASKED you for any of that!!

    We had planned to go to a swinger party that weekend, out of town and that Friday night we were both too upset to go. We made up and ended up going together on Saturday. We had a fantastic time and he was really, really affectionate with me, in front of everyone there. Even though he slept with a few other women, much more of his attention was on me.

    It was just so obvious how into me he was, and other people have told me that more than once. A man (that I have slept with before) whose party we went to once kept saying that is your man, he will never be able to handle you sleeping with other men, you can tell by the way he looks at you. He was right too, S eventually said he couldn’t handle it (I never did sleep with other men at any of the parties) and we stopped going together because of that.

    I’ve just always FELT like S adores me, and he’s said as much. The reality of actually spending a life with me though, with 5 children, the finances, etc…. makes it seem unworkable.

    I just want so much to be able to be that woman that flips his emotional switch to the point that it overrides all logic. I wish I knew how to do that. That is why I came here, because I KNOW he is uncertain. I know there are feelings there, they just haven’t been ENOUGH, I guess, to push him over the edge.

    You are right, I need to take care of ME. So easy to say, so, so HARD to DO!!

  163.  #163Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 11:01 am

    Indigo #154
    Great reminder…
    It was difficult for me, at first, to visualize
    what my day would look like with my Mr. Right…
    but I started fantasizing
    and started with waking up in the morning with HIM
    He would go down the stairs
    make the coffee…
    bring me up a cup and we’d sit together on
    the bed…talking about our day to come
    and take a bath/shower together…
    and I went on from there…
    Sometimes it is VERY comforting
    to visualize this…
    but sometimes it is VERY frustrating
    Cause I’m still alone –
    BUT my heart is warmer and my vibe is
    calmer and MORE authentic and vulnerable…
    many friends have been so soft and warm to
    me in the last few weeks…
    so I know I am different!!
    Yay… the magic of Rori’s tools
    AND Siren Island!!

  164.  #164Beloved on May 22, 2015 at 11:06 am

    lovergirl – ok, I hear you, I understood what you said a few months ago as roughly that he couldn’t see you as a slut once he developed feelings for you. I appreciate the correction 🙂

  165.  #165Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 11:13 am


    The way I see it, you can’t singlehandedly “flip his switch” so I hope you are not being too hard on yourself. He needs to be in that place in his life where he wants that relationship, that desire needs to already be there, and this part you have no control over. He either will come to that place or he won’t. In the meantime you can practice your Siren tools, on him, on everyone, just come into your own as a siren goddess because this takes time, lots of time, and practice… And of course focusing on your own life, fulfilling yourself, taking your focus off him, this also takes practice and time. If he is at a place where he could be ready, these are the things which could lure him to want to be with you, but the way I see it this journey is about you not about him.

  166.  #166Indigo on May 22, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Azure Blu,

    That sounds beautiful! I also have my ideal day in my ideal relationship firmly in my mind and I think about it every day! I like to really fantasise about it and get into it and I find it very comforting, but then again I am big on fantasy! I hope you don’t feel too downcast – the way I see it, it is a course that you set sail for and it takes time to get there, but each day brings you a little closer.

    I just wanted to write a quick note about how much having a job you love raises your vibe! I finally have a job that I LOVE. I have not been able to say that for a very long time. I slogged away at draining, soul-destroying jobs for years, and now I have a job which makes me feel light and energised, I feel deeply happy at work because the work is lovely and interesting, I love my co-workers, and most importantly, the way we work and the environment feels like it was tailor-made for me. I noticed it today – for the first time in a long time I actually felt bubbly, I was bubbling over, energised and laughing, and it was a lovely feeling. We spend SO much of our time at work, I believe if we can take care of ourselves in this area, it can cause big positive shifts in the rest of our lives.

  167.  #167Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 11:30 am

    Lovely Siren’s on the Island,
    Sooo… as I move through
    my agitation, anger, sadness, heartbreak/
    happiness for ME making the right choice for me…

    I have been thinking of something the last few days…
    Part of MY ANXIETY might be
    that *I* am making a choice For ME
    In MY own best interest…
    which is Sooo counter intuitive
    for me as a person…
    Although I have been doing
    this more and more
    Since Rori
    it is ME getting out of MY comfort zone
    MY comfort zone is to allow someone…
    to ignore me
    offer me crumbs
    not be available for comfort or support
    can’t talk about important issues
    disappear regularly
    in general poor bf behavior

    Much of MY anxiety might be
    NOT letting My Stranger *Lydia*
    take control and keep the status-quo

    YES i DESERVE a Loving and kind Man
    Who continually Stays in contact!!!
    and would never let me worry about what was going on with him…

    I MUST see/believe in my heart of hearts
    that as MY NEW and ONLY
    From now on!!!

  168.  #168Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Indigo #164
    Ohhhh!!! Yay!!!
    I’m sooo happy for you…
    it feels sunshiny bright energy
    reading about how happy and bubbly you
    are at your NEW Job…

    It is a great reminder to me
    I too LOVE my job… I worked hard to figure out
    what job would make me happy when I was attending the university…
    Yes and it has served to keep me happy in that part of my life for 30+ years!!!
    and inspired my children to seek the same!!!

  169.  #169Azure Blu on May 22, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Indigo #163
    Great reminder sweet Siren…
    That alll of these magical tools that Rori and her amazing coaches teach…
    Take time,
    take our investment of effort
    to Practice with EVERYONE…
    Yes… time and practice… effort and dedication

    When I first came to Rori/Siren Island…(thanks to ex Brad)
    I sooooo wanted a quick fix…
    a fix to make him love me…
    quick fix to Change ME,,,
    But… it has taken 3 years (some people catch on MUCH faster) ;-))
    of practice… deep, deep soul searching my feelings, dredging up the beautiful, ugly amazing layers that are ME
    It takes time… But the MOST Wonderful thing
    about allll this Magic
    is that You are becoming a more amazing person
    FOR YOU… every minute you practice this!!

  170.  #170Millie on May 22, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Lovergirl– I used to feel that way also, about thinking I could flip a mans switch, that I knew he loved me and if only I could use my siren skills to make that switch go in full– it would work out! The truth of that is, it’s using masculine energy in disguise. You are looking for a result in another person and that really doesn’t happen when it’s in your mind as a goal. If that is your goal and why you are here… Then you know what to do ! Apply all your siren skills of leaning back, standing your ground, putting you first, taking your focus off of him and his uncertainty. Let him deal with that. You know what to do and how to handle this lovely lady!! I know it’s easier said than done, but you can do it!!! And so can I!!!

  171.  #171Kim on May 22, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Azure, you are so inspiring, and Millie you too.
    Bottom line is, a lot of us if not most, come here to try and convert a man who either isn’t committed or just not wanting the same relationship as we do.
    In my case, I tried but realozed at some point, thankfully, that this is all about me. I had my relapses lol…it took me about two years of CDing and understanding myself to fully let go of that particular man.
    Lovergirl, I can tell you it was the best thing i ever did.
    Now, I care so much more about me than I could ever care about a man or what is going on in his head or whether he calls or texts or whatever. I analyse mostly only if it is ‘good enough’ for me and feels good.
    It has since been so easy to let these uncommitted guys go, and quickly and without relapse into ‘how can I get him to change and want me’ territory.
    Let’s face it, most of us dropped the guys we came here to change or manipulate with feeling messages into wanting the same thing as us. Most of us who got rid of them have either found yourself or found a great guy.
    What in the world could make us lose ourselves so much to care about any man that much that it is detrimental to our well being and health – now I do not get it at all anymore.
    I can hardly recognize who I was before I ‘got’ it.
    Just be happy and concentrate on getting happy with your five kids and developing your own life.
    I mean, there are people out there our ages dying of terrminal illnesses and wish they could have just another year on this beautiful planet, with their children, spouses, on the beach whatever.
    Never give so much power to a man who, for all you know, might be on dates with another woman while you spend 24/7 agonizing over him. It’s just not worth it.

  172.  #172Kim on May 22, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Typos ‘found ourselves’

  173.  #173Waterfall on May 22, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Lovely reading the blog and everything feels so relevant it is touching raw nerves in me…

    Well, where am I? Sometimes it feels like one step forward and two steps back… and that’s if I’m lucky!

    The no contact thing with D was going well. I was missing him like crazy but I was sticking to it.

    Then on Sunday he emailed me saying that he was really worried about me. And me like the dutiful ex-girlfriend emailed him straight back. I can’t even remember what it was about to be honest.

    The problem came a few days later when out of the blue I decided to reach out to him and let him know how much I appreciated all the gifts that he gave me. I didn’t get an immediate response, but when I did I was really shocked to find out he had gone on holiday with the walking group that I belong too.

    To say it cut to the bone is an under-statement.

    Anyway, for some reason it hit a massive raw nerve with me and I attacked, attacked and attacked some more. It felt bad that he was going away for soon. I felt so confused about “who he was”. In short I felt like I was going mad.

    I don’t regret it. I wanted him to fall out with me so that I don’t have to listen to his insincere comments.

    But then he phoned and phoned me and in the end I gave in and spoke to him. He told me how much he loved me, blah, blah, blah…

    About 6 months ago I would have got over this breakup in a flash. Now I am really struggling….


    Anyway, I am glad I released my inner diva….

  174.  #174Millie on May 22, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    Kim -169– Thank you lovely siren, it feels good to hear that I am inspiring!!

    ((Waterfall)) Break ups are so hard! ugh!! I am with you!

  175.  #175Linda on May 22, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    Azure you I am amazed at your ability to flip and feel thankful.

    In all honesty I wish I was able to feel that way. I feel angry and mis-led. I really do not understand why he would have put so much effort into maintaining contact with me and say the things he did for over 9 months only to turn so lukewarm after I opened up again. It was shocking to find him to be so aloof unavailable. Talk about being thrown a curve ball. I think I will be scratching my head about this one for the rest of my life.

    Beloved…. I wanted to thank you for what you said to me yesterday about my heart growing and not being a match for P’s anymore. I thought a lot about it today when NV’s would pop up. It helped me smile and feel peaceful remembering your words. They feel true.

  176.  #176Violette on May 22, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    I broke up with A 2 months ago now. I feel so angry about that whole relationship, angry with myself that I couldn’t see what was going on sooner than I did. I haven’t wanted to date again, because I don’t want another man getting angry with me because I don’t have enough time for him.

    I am not in a good place. Work takes all my time. Not the work I want to do, the work that’s paying my bills. The rest of my time is working on the work I want to do. I don’t know why it’s been so hard for me in that area. I used to do my chosen work full time.

    If I have a single extra minute I want to wash my dog or do laundry, sleep or finally get my taxes done!

    But I’m 36 and I want to be happy and married and living my life. I don’t trust a man to accept me as I am right now, without thinking I’m a pathetic poor girl who wants a man to sweep her away and pay her bills and become her reason for living. That was A.

    And that is not me!! I am a serious professional and I want that to show in my life. I find it exhausting that men see only the struggling aspects of me. And yet if I meet someone new right now I can’t hide how much I’m struggling. I don’t have that much talent.

    I’m venting. I’m hard on myself . I want a therapist. A friend. Someone wise. I feel isolated in my head.

    I rand into someone today who said something nice, something about how you have to date someone a while to find out who they are. I did learn from that relationship with A, I’ve been too angry to see it. I admire narcissists at times like this, that everyone else is wrong and they’re perfect. I go to a place of how terrible I am. I am sad about that. I’m not terrible and I crave my own acceptance.

  177.  #177Millie on May 22, 2015 at 10:29 pm

    Update on the CD adventures of Millie–
    I had to cancel two dates this week, which I really didn’t want to do, but cancelled the first one due to I caught a cold and the second one (tonight) because I had to work late and then by the time I got home and showered, it would just be too late since I’m still fighting a cold. The CD from last night also asked me if I was free tonight–I had plans. I have a potential date tmrw, although I didn’t get a solid vibe from him–So might have to implement some siren communication on planning..and another one on Sunday! Another guy, I’ll call him Red because of his hair wanted to make plans but was unsure of his own–so that is up in the air. The vibe I get from him is…he’s young, not “looking” for serious, has experienced some confusing situations from girls that leave him standing back. That’s just what I gather, but I actually feel ok with having fun. That doesn’t necessarily mean jumping into bed with him, but for me it means experimenting, being in the moment, and learning, following what feels right. The guy from tonight rescheduled to Wednesday–so I have a potentially busy CD schedule! I just wish I could get rid of this cold!!! Argh

    M is still on my mind a lot–my coworker is going on a new date next week and we were talking about online dating and he said something that really made sense to me… he said that first and foremost in a partner he is looking for a best friend and the love connection is on top of that. He said that M did not behave like a good friend to me. A friend is always there for you. And I asked myself if someone I considered to be my best friend behaved in the way he did and is still– would I feel longing for them? How would I handle it? Would I hold stronger boundaries with my friend, than I do with my lover?? And the answer is Yes in the sense that if a friend dipped like he did and in the way he did, I would call and apologize for whatever I though I did wrong, but if the person did not respond–I would 100% think it’s them and their business and “they are going through something.” Whether it is a personal thing or just the fact that the person is holding on to anger and resentment and is unable to talk about it. I wouldn’t think the friendship was necessarily over…but I think friendships are easier to handle the ebbs and flows of. It’s not so “urgent” feeling and I would not feel the need to chase the person down. I’m lucky that my close family and friends DO talk about issues when they arise and are quick to confront me when I said or did something that bothered them and we talk about it and move on. So, what my coworker brought to light about a partner being a really good friend in addition to lover made me think…If we (I) are too hyper focused on lovers..we give them a different set of our personal boundaries. They are somehow above my friends and family…and that is so not right. My boundaries should not waver depending on who the person is. In this sense boundary isn’t a line not to be crossed it is more of a gate that needs to be closed. Not a solid wood gate that lets nothing in, but a slatted gate, that holds itself but allows air in and out. If that gate is not closed, then my emotional drama and neediness and whininess and pain just seeps through and pours out and I feel “not together”, “not myself”, I feel owned by someone else’s actions. And I think this is the root to why I haven’t been able to really let gate is open. I’m not seeing this situation clearly–as a human to human. And stepping back, closing the gate, also allows me to see that it was not only open for too long and created the issue, but also allows me to forgive him and allow peacefully for him to take care of himself in whatever way that is…because part of me isn’t pouring out the gate, flowing after him, going with him and leaving my body, my soul. It’s very conceptual, but it makes a beautiful image in my head I wish I could draw it!! I still feel bad about how I acted, but there is now a limit to how bad I feel. It doesn’t go past the gate, it doesn’t pour out after him screaming “I feel bad!” invisible ghost hands tearing at his clothes saying I’m sorry. It stays within the gate, it gets acknowledged and it keeps moving.

    Man, this is tough. It really is… Growing out of old habits and mindsets is tough…changing your behavior consciously is tough..feeling truly open to other people in a genuine way is tough. Being at peace, real peace, with reality is tough. But I can do it. I can do it! I just have to keep telling myself that!

  178.  #178Beloved on May 22, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    Linda – Natalie Lue has said that some men tend to confuse feeling “out of control” with “desire”. They blow hot hot hot when they feel out of control, and once they feel back in control, they go back to blowing cold, or frequently flip-flopping. I wonder if that fits?

  179.  #179Lovetodance on May 23, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Millie. So so beautifull. You have expressed what I feel in many ways. Thank you! You sound and feel strong to me

  180.  #180Femininewoman on May 23, 2015 at 5:46 am

    Yes Millie. Sounds real strong, aware and conscious.

  181.  #181Tereana on May 23, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Victoria (120) – that is totally right, and I loved it.

    And I know it’s true, because this is what happened with me and V. When he was here, we did a lot of things together and it made me feel my life was more active in a pleasant way. In his absence, I lost that. I was keeping myself busy in a lot of ways, but I of course lost all the things that only he could provide – closeness, cuddling, his particular kind of fun and laughter. He had become a staple of my life.

    My coworker was telling me a story about how he and his wife met and had a “whirlwind month-long romance.” After that, she left, and they stayed in touch for a year, all while dating other people. He asked her to move to the states. And she didn’t at first. But eventually, she decided to for her own reasons, and they ended up getting married.

    It made me sad and wistful about V. I don’t like the fact that I got bent out of shape about him calling or not calling. I don’t like he fact that I let him know this. I wanted to have my dignity, but I lost it by saying these things to him.

    I would like to concentrate more on keeps my dignity.

    And to me, moving to a new city does that. It will distract me. It will enliven me. It will get me out of my “rut” and into new things. New friends, new places, new experiences. Plus, following my desires where they lead.

    I would like to “tell” V some things. Like about how he hade his own choice to stay and no one else made it for him. I would like to tell him how, if he did want to marry me and have kids, then he’d have to take responsibility for this by going through the proper channels. That is, not by offering to get me pregnant first and then making it a thing he “had” to do. Yes, he actually talked about this.

    Probably I should not say any of these things. Except maybe that last one. Idk. I think it has to do with my boundaries. Because part of me was thinking “oh yeah, great, I’ll get pregnant and that will be fun. I want to be pregnant.” But then the rest of me is like, “hold on. If he wants to marry you, why doesn’t he just ask?” So yeah. That seems kind of important.

  182.  #182Linda on May 23, 2015 at 7:57 am


    From what I experienced with P over the last 2 plus years he was a very deliberate in his decision making. That is one of the reasons that this was such a curve ball for me.

    I felt agitated in my sleep last night. I feel DEEPLY offended about all this. I am really really bothered and angry. Not hurt… offended and angry.

  183.  #183Lovergirl on May 23, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Indigo 163/Millie 168-

    Thanks. You two are right, this really is basically me trying to control things and be in masculine energy. I want to reach a goal that I shouldn’t be setting in the first place. It’s so hard though.

    I don’t understand HOW he can go so long without talking to me. How can he not miss me, when I feel it so strongly? It’s been almost 6 days now. I feel positively sick with anxiety. I can take my mind off of him for awhile but then it hits me again.

    I can’t see Chicago today because he has his daughter. I’ve talked to a few guys off POF but none of them are stepping up to the plate. One guy texted me after midnight last night and I was thinking no way am I responding to this. You’ve got to do better than that, buddy.

  184.  #184Lovergirl on May 23, 2015 at 10:00 am

    I’m starting to wonder, if S is doing this on purpose, as an attempt to get ME to be the one to start initiating. He will ask me things, from time to time, like if I ever contact men first. I did text him first last time, to wish him a Happy Birthday, after which he immediately called and invited me over. I’m not going to do it now though. If that’s the plan he will be waiting a very long time.

  185.  #185Millie on May 23, 2015 at 10:57 am

    Lovergirl– unfortunately I know that sick anxiety feeling all too well and also have difficulties taking my mind off someone. Do you have a friend you can call and go meet up with with? Do some shopping or go for a hike? I find that when I’m around someone else and am doing something, my mind has less freedom to wander and I must focus on being in the moment with that other person. It helps. My other suggestion would be to just feel it. Lay in bed, watch a movie, and just feel that sickness. Although when I do that it lasts longer than when I’m out and about. He may or may not be doing this on purpose… Didn’t someone say earlier that players try to get women to chase them? I don’t know if that’s the case here, but I agree that you should wait him out. I can totally relate to not understanding how you can feel so strongly and he can go six days of no contact. The most logical explanation for that is he doesn’t feel the same way as you. And that’s not saying he doesn’t love you, that’s saying that people feel different in general. No two people truly feel exactly the same because emotions exist differently in people. I’ve been in a situation like this before and I do agree that men do this no contact when they’ve told you thy don’t want a relationship and after a fantastic time. If used to torture me as well… To have a great time, lots of sex and I love you, only to not hear from him for two weeks and feel like every time I saw him we never really moved forward. It’s a sick cycle. And now that I’ve experienced what having the waterfall of love pour over me feels like, what having a man who wants to be with me all the time feels like, I would never go back.. To settling for less. It’s not our job to understand the WHY even though we want to so badly… Truthfully it comes down to “he doesn’t want to” and he may not even know the WHY himself! Even if he did explain why… Excuses don’t exist for us to accept, they exist for us to say “I want more than this.” I felt pretty crappy when I accepted my ex’s excuses and it turned out they didn’t exist for him when he met another woman who he is married to now. Anyway, I know it’s tough.. But you will pull through this. You’ve survived six days of no contact!!! That’s amazing! You can do this!

  186.  #186Millie on May 23, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Thank you Lovetodance and Femininewoman 🙂

  187.  #187Azure Blu on May 23, 2015 at 11:08 am

    {{{Linda}}} #180
    Hugss to you darling LINDA…
    I Know this is sooo tired…
    BUT YOU Did sooo good…
    You were able to use Alll the Rori tools
    and hold YOUR boundaries…
    and NOW YOU KNOW that P isn’t what
    You want in a Relationship…

    I can flip these feelings about breaking up with Spirit
    BUT only OFF and ON…
    It has been 2 weeks now…

    I have a lot of ANGER toward him also…

    He did the same thing as P
    Pursued me hard off and on for 10 months and longer (6 or more of those months I was CDing others)…
    Spirit actually listened to and changed some of the things I said I didnt want!

    But Spirit doesn’t know he can’t do relationship….
    He believes it when he says; that’s what HE wants…
    He wants it on HIS terms… Which ISNT” right or Wrong…
    It;s just NOT WHAT I WANT in a Relationship…

    And now *I* Know that…

    It HURTS like Hell…

    BUT I now have
    allll THAT energy,
    love and compassion for ME…

    (AS Indigo said so sweetly)
    and as i grow and learn to be warm and vulnerable
    strong and inspiring
    dance and sing
    to MY own Wonderful LIFE…
    I will attract better and better men to ME!!!

    and of course it’s easy to say this stuff
    BUT right now the heart break and ANGER
    swell up – last for awhile –
    and then die down…
    Swell up – sometimes even stronger
    I cry or call him Names in my mind!!! :-))
    for sometimes hours…
    I DONT CARE IF it is obsessing
    and WHEN I get sick and tired of thinking
    about it I tell myself

    I’m just giving myself permission to
    sit with All of this
    and peel the layers
    Unfold my heart… LOVE on ME
    if that is what I need!!

    I got a massage on Mon
    I started cleaning out my flower beds
    throughout the week…
    I met with Girl Friends on Tues.
    Kept up with my work deadlines (as best I could)
    worked out every day this week!!
    and walked in the parks every day
    Etc. etc.

    I do want to start online DAting again…
    but I’ll know when that time is right…

    It is a process and I am getting through
    this with dignity and the grace of a woman.

  188.  #188Lovergirl on May 23, 2015 at 11:38 am


    Thanks. I wish I had someone I could just call and hang out with. It is rainy outside and I am broke so not much I can do. I took one of my children out last night and spent the last of my cash. I have lots of housecleaning I can do though- ugh.

    It’s possible he is trying some player tactic out on me, he IS reading a book about being a “mack”. I saw it at his house. Usually I feel like he is saving that for other women, because with me he will still pay for meals and take me out, despite saying things like “I don’t buy drinks for women” while I am sitting there drinking something he bought, lol.

    I don’t know. I don’t know WHY and I know it’s not my business. I just know it FEELS horrible. 🙁

  189.  #189Millie on May 23, 2015 at 11:47 am

    Lovergirl— I know… I feel horrible about my guy walking out on me too…. ((Hugs))

  190.  #190April Rose on May 23, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    (((((((Azure Blu))))))
    I can really feel you, and empathise with the surges of anger and heartbreak you are experiencing.
    Thank you for writing out what is happening inside you.
    Soo powerful to read.
    I too am experiencing surges and waves – for me it is fear and heartbreak and desolation.

    What did we ever do to deserve these awful feelings?

    When Rori writes her most profound words, about there not being any ‘good’ or ‘bad’ feelings, I feel so puzzled. Surely it is plain to everyone which feelings feel pleasant and which feel horrible.
    I wish I could understand more about experiencing feelings and dropping the judgment on them.
    Or do I need to ‘get’ that the awfulness of a feeling comes from the judgement which preceded it.
    So puzzling.

  191.  #191Azure Blu on May 23, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    {{{{{April Rose}}}}
    Thank you for your kind words..
    I feel sad and I am soooo sorry
    you are feeling heartbreak and desolation…

    maybe we need to take a close, loving, compassionate
    look at the feeling
    and bring her close, give her a warm loving hug
    and let her sit close
    I think i will ask her what she wants to talk about…
    I know I want to push her away…
    she is sooo scary…
    I will apologize for NOT loving her
    and for ignoring her
    I will give her love allll day today…
    I’ll let you know what happens.

  192.  #192April Rose on May 23, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    Oh Azure,
    Inspired by what you say, I want to put my arms around the girl in me that is so frightened and so bleak and alone (so she thinks).
    I must hug her and ask her what she needs and what she wants to talk about, instead of trying to push her away because she makes me feel so very uncomfortable.

  193.  #193Azure Blu on May 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    {{{{Violette}}}} #174
    Darling, Sweet Siren…
    So good to hear your voice here
    on Siren Island
    I am so sorry to hear about your break up with A…
    and about your struggles with finances…

    I have been working on getting MY finances in
    order for years…
    slowly but surely I have been able to dig myself
    out of debt… It is still ongoing…
    and I do know what you are saying…
    it does make dating difficult…
    Especially at my age when so many men (and women)
    have planned and been SUCCESSFUL with their
    retirement plans…
    unfortunately mine have been sabatoged
    right and left…
    and now i am on Plan H, I and J !!! :-))

  194.  #194Azure Blu on May 23, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    April Rose…
    My darling “heartbreak”
    needs lots of my tender loving attention today!!!

  195.  #195Tereana on May 23, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    Am I being crazy? Perhaps I am totally crazy. Maybe I think like a crazy person. And it makes all this sense in my head. I think, This will be great! And then when I go to do the actual thing…oh my goodness.

    Like totally insane. Here I was thinking, OH, sure. A bunch of people will totally give me a lot of money, and I’ll magically have $10k for school. Wouldn’t it be great if that were possible? I look at all these fundraising campaigns online, where people’s projects get funded. I’m looking at families who are raising money for sick family members and thinking, “Oh, jeez, my issue is nothing like that. I should be able to support myself going to school. If I can’t do that, why am I even bothering? Why don’t I just keep working at the job that I’ve got? Is it so bad, after all? I mean, they hired me, didn’t they?”

    And yet, the thought of it makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach. Whereas the thought of going to school makes me feel free and easy and wonderful. And yet, I also anticipate a lot of difficulty. There will be the move, for one thing. That will be challenging. And then once I’m there, I will have to actually do the work. And I am so sure that it will be a million times harder than what I am doing now, on a day to day basis.

    Staying seems like the “easy” route, to tell you the truth. School will not be a picnic. Yet I always thrive on challenge. I thrive on newness. I want to be all in, with my creative, sireny self.

    I feel vulnerable, exposed, asking others to pitch in. It almost doesn’t make sense. That’s why I’m thinking – this is crazy. Why am I asking this? Why don’t I just have this money in the bank so that I can do it myself? Why didn’t I just sock money away all these years – oh yeah, that’s right. Because I didn’t have it to sock away. Because I’ve always been just getting by. Up until this year, which is the first time in 10 years I’ve had “enough” to support myself, I’ve been continually scraping the barrel. Forget “glass half full.” It was more like a few drops in the bottom, continually. That’s been my life, financially speaking. And debt and everything. And yet…I’m not giving up.

    There was a time in my life when I felt so ashamed of having debt that it felt like the end of my life. It’s still bad. I’m not going to lie. I won’t sell it like it’s a great thing. But I’ve realized at least one thing: I’m still alive. I may have had debt and made mistakes, and I may have never had a lot of money all at once. But nevertheless, I am still here. The volume of my bank account does not determine my self worth, to me.

    So maybe it won’t work. Maybe I’ll have to re-fund the money back to all the generous people who have given so far. And maybe I’ll still be here in my same city next year, not in Chicago.

    But we’ll see. This weekend will show me some important knowledge that I need to have. That much I can be sure of.

  196.  #196Jasmine on May 23, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    I hope this works. Sophie doing a name change…

    Wow sirens, I feel really behind again but all the input feel STRONG – even where the pain is I can hear the strength of conviction in each post to explore and reflect and grow. I love you all for what you share. I’ve posted a long while and sometimes it felt for a long time like there was no change, but now, I’m feeling slightly different.

    For one, I am attempting proper CDing (I even have the book of men so that I remember their names/actions and how I feel etc). I also got a full-time job all of a sudden, so alongside freelancing, and trying to find time for my friends, and being a person who can get easily overwhelmed and burnt out I am feeling very boundaried with the dating thing which feels really good. It is feeling nice to express my feelings and then observe them either offer a solution, or weed themselves out..I feel amused when they weed themselves out…now that is a change!

    I got approached online by someone who I had a lot in common with the night before my new job and then I discovered during this conversation that he worked there. I expressed how eek! I felt about that and he thought it was funny. He was kind enough to meet me for a coffee before I started (he wasn’t working that day). I was all flappy because I’d left my ‘serious’ work top at home and needed a replacement! No-one was available by phone and I didn’t know the city to find a shop so our coffee meet up became him drawing me a map to a shop and then work. It felt great that he stepped up into masculine man like that. He hasn’t contacted me since and I shall have to see him next week. Feel a bit wobbly about that. But not too much. I would prefer to know though how he would like us to be – as in whether I’m supposed to pretend I don’t know him – whatever…

    Then there was a very active online pursuer and so I said I would meet him but I was feeling increasingly stressed that he was always online and there were other things that I was feeling intuitively ‘no’ about…I called the date off at the absolute minute and attempted to explain in feeling messages that it didn’t feel right to me. Still, I felt bad and hence was overcompensating and it wasn’t a particularly firm boundary. He made it about where I am at in my head and said he wouldn’t force it…we shall see…

    I am meeting another on Thursday. And then there are others and I feel so busy I can’t respond to them!

    All of it was to practice the tools and to practice boundaries and to practice discovering what I want and honouring that and to help me not be focused on emailcd (who is the one from when I was away) but my energy is still waaaayyyyyy over in his space 🙁 I feel excited whenever I get correspondence from him and am right in his head analyzing his actions, potentially creating something that isn’t there. Okay, I’m not even going to start with taking the focus off of him. I’m going to start with being willing to take the focus off of him! I always respond to his emails quickly as I feel inspired by them (lying to myself?! ). No I do feel inspired, but it’s also because it’s from him…hmmmm he is very thinky and everything is in thinky terms and he asks me thinky things and I have to use masculine energy to wade through the thinking and flip it to feeling. I lean forward in my responses. I’m sure. And yes, maybe all the thinky stuff means there’s no feeling on his side. No idea. Okay back to being willing to take the focus off of him.

    I felt very proud of myself the other day when I did a fabulous feeling speech with my father. I said something and he walked away in a way which felt dismissive. So I gently called him back. Stood there, open, and expressed exactly how I felt until I cried. And he just stood there open and listened and then said “okay, of course, don’t upset yourself” ha ha he doesn’t like emotions but he stood there and listened yay me!!!!

  197.  #197Jasmine on May 23, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Yay it worked I now have a new identity 🙂

  198.  #198April Rose on May 23, 2015 at 2:57 pm


    Please be gentle with yourself, dear siren.

    What stood out most to me, from your last comment, was that you are finally, after ten years debt, able to support yourself.

    This is not a small thing. This requires celebration!!
    Why not sit with that achievement for a while (minutes, hours, or days!!) and take off the pressure to find/earn money. It feels so relieving to take the urgency off the situation and just breathe.

    Hugs to you.

  199.  #199Femininewoman on May 23, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Jasmine for some reason now I get the feeling and image of a butterfly when I was reading through your post and looking at the new name.

  200.  #200April Rose on May 23, 2015 at 3:04 pm


    Wow. I feel tingly reading your update. I detect a change in you for sure and it feels wonderful.
    I always enjoy the lightness and humour which comes across in your vibe, and I’m sure that good men must find that a very attractive quality in you.

  201.  #201Jasmine on May 23, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    Ah thank you April Rose and FW. I feel really warm reading your comments to me

    FW – that’s a lovely feeling and image. I hope I am like a butterfly (as in coming out from a transformative process)

    I was playing with names for a while but this one was really loud and clear today. And it is strange because it embodies all the properties that heal all of the things I struggle with eg I am not very calm and it is calming, I am anxious and it is anxiety reducing etc It is though, also, I read an aphrodisiac (if I could do a winky face I would) and it is a beautiful flower

    Thank you April Rose – sometimes my posts and my energy feel very dense and intense and I don’t know if those darknesses, or the scatty, manic energy I often have when I feel overwhelmed will ever leave me, but what has changed/or is changing is my ability to accept and love myself as I am, and so (I hope) I’m beginning to expect that from men too. With the ‘office top palaver’ coffee date, I just thought well this is me, for real. It really is that, ‘if you can’t handle the worst of me, then you don’t deserve the best of me feeling’. It feels quite empowering to be in that space.

    And then from that space I can honour too, the fact that I do feel freaked and overwhelmed a lot and speak the truth of that. Because, pointless to pretend to be anything other…

    I was actually coming back to say I can’t call emailcd, email cd because he’s not actually a cd – only one I’d like to be, so, I’ll now call him (mwm) man who mails – not that I’m focusing on him because I am now willing not too 🙂

  202.  #202Millie on May 23, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    Hi Jasmine! (Sophie)

    I love your new voice and attitude!! I may need to start a CD book also!! Tonight I am meeting a third guy and I have another new one tomorrow!! I haven’t saved any of their numbers in my phone, so now I’m started to get worried I’ll reply the wrong text to the wrong guy! And I almost double booked for tonight!! eek. I felt bad having to reschedule one of the guys, but there’s no way I could have juggled two in one night!! I also went to my dance class today which was wonderful and always makes me feel on top of the world. Then I had dinner with a male coworker who wanted to treat me. The thursday night guy texted me last night to get together and tonight asking if I was free. He seems like a nice guy who is pretty together, so I’m wondering why he is waiting until 8pm to ask me if I’m free…NO I’m not. I– usually make plans in advance. Smile 🙂 Maybe he’s testing me…I think guys do do that–to see if a girl is going to jump for them or not. I don’t know….anyways–going to get ready!

  203.  #203Kath on May 23, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    Hey Ladies,

    I need your help to understand something. In trying to process my relationship with R and to learn and recognise what I need and don’t need in a future relationship I keep coming back to the same scenarios. The one I want to share with you is a typical example of how things went in my relationship with R and your help and comments would be really helpful.

    R’s son and his family were moving house and to help out his x-wife agreed to have their two children for a week to help out. Then she decided that it would be great to take the kids away for that week and for the other 2 grandchildren to come too. Now all four children are aged 6, 4,3 and 1yr old. Both son and daughter were anxious about this and both didn’t want granny to have all four children for the week. Granny hadn’t asked her partner to go with her and the grandkids for the week but instead had asked R to “help out”. I don’t know if both children knew this but in the meantime both children had pleaded with R to speak to their Mother about not taking their children away for the week. Both children are now in their thirties and yet they couldn’t speak to their Mother themselves and instead gave their Father all the responsibility for telling her how they felt.

    I really don’t think this is right- certainly isn’t healthy but would be really interested to hear your thoughts because I may be the one with the odd ideas!

  204.  #204Lovergirl on May 24, 2015 at 12:28 am

    Kath 201-

    That does seem kind of odd. Was the mom sort of the controlling influence of the household? That’s what it sounds like. Like she was the masculine energy?

  205.  #205Kath on May 24, 2015 at 12:36 am


    Mum has had mental health issues in the past but never stopped working full time (as a nurse!). She’s had episodes of medical intervention but so have other members of her family-in fact looking at both R’s family background and his x-wife’s, they both have mental health issues!- Anyway, R is always the one who was tasked with sorting everything out and took on the role willingly. I would always try and support him to support his children in making their own decisions and telling their mother how they felt but the only time they did, always ended up in a huge family row of which, of course, I was never part of. Even when R would try and speak to her they would end up having a row and it all just seemed like too much hard work and none of them taking responsibility-

  206.  #206Lovergirl on May 24, 2015 at 12:43 am

    Thanks Millie (187).

    I’m feeling better about the distance with S right now. I know we aren’t supposed to try and get all into their heads, but I talked with some men and it actually made me feel better (surprisingly!). They seemed to think that his behavior seems like a very natural reaction to so much intimacy. I know we have talked about that on here, and I’ve read all kinds of stuff about the male intimacy cycle, but actually hearing it from men kind of helped drive it home better.

    They said 100% guarantee he will be back, and maybe more intimate than ever. They also said he may be struggling with feelings of wanting to get me pregnant again but knowing he shouldn’t (which I was surprised to hear). I realize its all just speculation but it helped that they seemed positive and like its not an indication that he doesn’t like me anymore or something.

    They said that too much affection can sometimes be overkill for men and they start to fear being controlled by it. One guy said that he used to sometimes feel that way with his girlfriend and would not even be able to send her short texts or call because doing so made him feel like she was in control of his life. He would get back to her eventually though, after he kind of got control of himself.

    Its almost cute to think that men get so afraid of being lovey dovey with a woman that they fear it taking over their mind and hearts and running their life. It seems so silly, but really we CAN have that much of an effect on them! I think we, as women, often don’t realize the amount of power we can hold over men.

    Just hearing all this, makes it seem easier to be positive when S does finally come back. It reinforces all that stuff I’ve read but have had a hard time really understanding. It also made me realize, hey, S is probably really just trying to live his life and get himself in order and not really thinking about me, so why the hell am I letting myself get all caught up in worrying about HIM? I should totally be focused on ME and my stuff. I know I’ve been told that on here a few times as well, but it feels like it is finally hitting home. It made tonight so much easier. 🙂

  207.  #207Femininewoman on May 24, 2015 at 12:59 am

    Kath what do you think is not right about that? It is their choice to make

  208.  #208Indigo on May 24, 2015 at 1:03 am


    That situation sounds to me like a case of poor boundaries… which unfortunately is all too common in family dynamics. People often struggle with the transition from being a child who defers to their parents and is dependent on them to get their needs met, to being a fully fledged adult responsible for their own lives and with the right to make their own decisions. If I found myself with a partner who had these dynamics in his family I would not involve myself or try to change it… I just feel that’s getting into their business, and people won’t see something until they’re ready to see it. But I WOULD set boundaries for myself and situations that involve me, ie. I would specify what I can and cannot live with and the extent to which I am willing to get involved, if at all.

  209.  #209Jasmine on May 24, 2015 at 1:26 am

    Thank you Millie – Right back at you. It feels amazing to watch you go from strength to strength even on the ‘feeling very hard days’. I feel in awe of the way you are managing to be with your feelings and to stay by your own side. Lots of love to you.

  210.  #210victoria on May 24, 2015 at 2:01 am

    I see nothing wrong with the situation you described except that I kind of suppose you felt left out of these interfamily dynamics and were annoyed that he would not be spending time with you instead. The way I see his kids reaction is not that they did not want to stand up to the mother (mind you she was doing them a favor) but because they were looking to further optimise a solution which they already liked by sending their father to negotiate on their behalf. Not a bad strategy at all.

  211.  #211Millie on May 24, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Lovergirl– I’m glad to hear you are feeling better!!!! Yay!!! And glad to hear you feel more at peace with whatever S needs to handle for himself!
    My question to you is… In a non-committed relationship, what does “coming back” look like to you ? I feel curious because in my definition… With my man… “Coming back” would be him showing up and wanting a committed relationship with me once again and striving to win me over. I’m sure there are many different ways to look at it and I’d love to hear your take on it since you have a different perspective.

  212.  #212Millie on May 24, 2015 at 2:46 am

    Just for home from date with guy #3. Overall I felt good with him, but he went into some feel stuff about his family and the date felt very heavy at one point. He did say he wants to see me again, not to toot my own horn but I usually always get asked on a second… And the first usually goes well. It’s after that that I encounter difficulties. The first is always so easy…
    I do feel self conscious about my lack of serious relationship history. But nothing I can do about that. I seem to be missing M a great deal. It makes me wonder how he can seemingly not miss me at all! Not even a drunk text! Wow. For someone so impulsive I’m pretty amazed at his self control. It seems he operates in extremes. I miss him greatly. I feel his absence all the time. For only a three month relationship, this is scary to me. Scary how attached I got to someone. Scary how much I allowed myself to be in the moment with him and be vulnerable and let him in. Scary that it’s going to take time before I can really do that with someone else again. Am I emotionally unavailable right now?? Maybe. But I’m working on not being.

  213.  #213Kath on May 24, 2015 at 3:28 am

    Thanks Ladies, some really interesting thoughts.

    I completely agree that it is an example of poor boundaries and unfortunately that was prevalent in every interaction, every family get together etc that ever took place. Half the time I couldn’t see what the fuss was all about, and why the situation seemed to have been blown up out of all proportion!- I am not the jealous type, so I never took it that it meant he was spending time sorting stuff out when he could have been spending time with me instead. I think the point here is that I had to make a decision on how involved and how interested I was going to make myself- and at the end of the day I just kept fast forwarding to years ahead to scenarios that could have happened where, God forbid, anything happened to R before his x-wife- and when I saw that scenario- I knew that it was not something that I could accept or would want to have the energy to cope with!

  214.  #214Dixie on May 24, 2015 at 6:00 am

    Lovergirl! I am so happy for you because I can feel such a shift in your tone! You sound so grounded and just….Sireny 🙂

    I feel that S has deep feelings for you, but is not where you are right now. You’re right, focus on what makes YOU feel good, what makes you feel light, and happy and joyful, and then…. Only good things, right?

    Hugs to you!

  215.  #215Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Lovegirl #204
    Ahhh… lovely, warm Siren…
    I feel very happy that you were able to talk
    to some of your men friends and get more clarity
    and continue your VERY brave leaning back with S!!!

    I agree with Millie #209
    She has such a wonderful insight here…
    “My question to you is… In a non-committed relationship, what does “coming back” look like to you ? I feel curious”

    I believe this would be an important thing to consider
    while S has withdrawn…
    Come up with some Scripts that you could share and that would describe
    how you are feeling and what you would want moving forward with S.

    I know I was NOT prepared with ANY scripts
    on what an exclusive, committed relationship looked like to me
    when Spirit came back…
    But NOW I know and for my next Mr. Right
    I will be more able to share – well, hopefully!!!

  216.  #216Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 7:10 am

    I LOVE this name…

    So happy to hear you are moving into CDing
    You have become more acclimated to your home country… are you in the US?

    I too used the notebook in the past… it gets soooo confusing
    keeping them all separate… (im not dating yet)

    I signed up for Evan Marc Katz enewsletters (6 months ago)
    Sooo Very helpful for online dating motivations and insights from the male perspective!!!

    Labbit’s sister has been using him and
    has nothing but rave reviews!!!
    and his books also
    ARE VEry helpful and affordable

  217.  #217Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 7:29 am

    Millie – Wow…
    you ARE amazing with your No contact with M
    AND your Cding!!!

    I haven’t had much of a relationship longer than
    a year or so (for the past 15 yrs)- and 2 of them were on and off
    So I know what you mean…
    I get that feeling of
    not worthy of love
    what is wrong with ME…
    I KNOW I am a different woman NOW

    People are treating ME
    more respectful – they used to think of me more like a ditzy blond (I must have been treating myself like that)-
    are drawn to me…
    and those that aren’t
    I can let go

    We CAN flip this Millie…
    We are Amazing Sirens!
    The man we want to meet
    will have us feeling Loved
    and Cared for Most of the Time!!!

    Evan Marc Katz says:
    “When you’re a woman who is smart, successful and talented, the truth is that most men WON’T be for you. So you need to take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way
    to meet men in that top 20%,
    to let your forever man find you.”

  218.  #218Lovergirl on May 24, 2015 at 7:53 am

    Millie 209-

    At this point, by “coming back” I just mean calling and wanting to spend time with me again, ideally regularly, like he has been for the past year. If I haven’t heard from him by tonight it will have been a full week, which is really unusual from a guy who normally calls and texts A LOT. We have usually seen each other 1-3 times a week too.

  219.  #219Lovergirl on May 24, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Azure 213-

    I’m not sure I want to make any relationship demands when he comes back. I don’t know if that would be counterproductive? I would most likely tell him that I am happy to hear from him and that it felt weird to go so long not talking to each other, or something along those lines.

  220.  #220Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Lovegirl #217
    Wow!!! that sounds authentic and vulnerable
    Excellent script

  221.  #221Jasmine on May 24, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Azure Blu – thank you for your lovely, positive, welcoming, warm insights. I have learnt so much from you I really have. And I am checking out EMK.

    And thank you for remembering and asking. That feels warm, like a hug. I’min the UK, hmmm yes feeling a little more used to it…but there’s a definite drop in amounts of sunshine…I’m feeling one foot in, one foot out…but beginning to feel more here, than there. I don’t feel tooo piney for there, though I feel piney for the sun!

    I’m feeling that across the board in my life, not fully committed to anything much, (as in where I might live, what I might do, where I might go, wanting a relationship…all of this feels ambivalent right now). But I have quite safe structures for this exploration so that feels good.

    I do feel fully to committed to myself and I feel committed to working through some finance stuff, getting my health 100% and keeping exploring myself, and my potentials, and identifying my wants and don’t wants, needs and don’t needs, and how I am with men, and who shows up, and being reflective about that. I feel committed to keeping on undoing the barriers to intimacy within me and building the self-loving self. So, all of that feels positive.

  222.  #222Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 9:05 am

    Ahhh… thank you sooo much for those wonderful
    supportive words… I am blushing!! :->

    This sounds so leaned back…self focused and relaxed
    LOVE IT!!!

    “I do feel fully to committed to myself and I feel committed to working through some finance stuff, getting my health 100% and keeping exploring myself, and my potentials, and identifying my wants and don’t wants, needs and don’t needs, and how I am with men, and who shows up, and being reflective about that. I feel committed to keeping on undoing the barriers to intimacy within me and building the self-loving self. So, all of that feels positive.”

  223.  #223Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Ohhh… you live in the UK…
    Boy oh boy do I understand about missing sun!!
    I live in Michigan (northern US) where there are few sunny days
    and I came from the south where the sun is bright and warm most of the time!!!
    I have struggled with sun deprivation for years..

  224.  #224Jasmine on May 24, 2015 at 9:37 am

    It is very real isn’t it AB? It really affects my mood whether there’s sunshine and warmth. I feel much happier in the warm and the light…a very real reality for me…one which is why I don’t know if I can settle here…long, long, term…

  225.  #225Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Yes… here in the states it’s called SAD…
    Seasonal Affective Disorder
    Both of my children were soooo tired
    of the lack of sunshine here…
    when they were 18 they moved to Florida…
    my daughter lives there permanently with her husband and 2 children…
    my son did come back – but plans on moving somewhere where the sun shines more!!

  226.  #226Tereana on May 24, 2015 at 10:44 am

    As an addendum to 193 – they do say (and by “they” I mean practically everyone) that if you want a different result, you have to try something you’ve never done befire.

    Maybe staying is the “easy” route. And maybe that’s not such a terrible thing. I’ve never taken the “easy” route before. And I’ve always complained that life feels hard and challenging and that I feel I’m not being rewarded for my big efforts. But really I’m the one who chose to make those big efforts with no promise of reward. It’s not always been a case of “risk,” like I might lose. In fact, if I’m honest, in most cases the choice was one of guaranteed loss. That is, that I would choose a path that would ensure I would expend more energy than what was coming in. And afterward, I feel depleted, naturally.

    So maybe the easy route isn’t so bad. Maybe the easy route has rewards beyond my expectations. And if nothing else, maybe it’s a chance to switch the nature of the flow from me exporting a lot more energy than is coming in, and start to be able to experience putting out less and taking in more than I expend. Both money and energy, of course. Because money is energy. And when I’m extending a my energy and not getting energy back, that manifests in my financial life as well…

    Just processing my thoughts and feelings on this…

  227.  #227Tereana on May 24, 2015 at 10:47 am

    196 – April Rose, I appreciate you noticing that. Thank you! You are right. It is no small thing. And maybe this idea of going off to school is me just running away from a good situation

  228.  #228Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Lovetodance… #226 from last post
    Lovely Siren,
    I just saw your post from Wed…
    This all feels VERY positive
    You are learning MORE about YOU…
    Loving and looking closely at this
    overfunctioning YOU are seeking
    to dis en gage from!!!

    Yay he did come forward (of course)
    and now you can stay in YOUR power
    however that looks to you…

    You keep singing and dancing
    in the light… YOUR light…
    it alll looks and sounds warm and

  229.  #229Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 10:53 am

    tereanna, #224
    These thoughts sound profound, lovely Siren.

    doing the easy thing, for you,
    can mean… “Doing the NEW and adventurous”
    staying put
    and making the most
    of these wonderful opportunities
    YOU have right NOW…

  230.  #230Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Wow, lately I am seeing BIG lightbulbs flash above my head.. I keep seeing patterns that I NEVER knew existed before. It’s like I’ve taken a massive step back…

    I am so impressed with how Sirens really KNOW how to put themselves first, and take RESPONSIBILITY for their own lives. I am awestruck and in AWE of these sirens. You are ALL my ROLE MODELS…

    I am up and down at the moment. I am still thinking about D and feeling piney feelings of sorrow, etc..

    But other than that I am feeling HAPPY.

    I had a male friend over last night and I cooked us a beautiful butternut squash risotto. We had a lovely evening and just chatted and had a couple of beers between us..

    Today I have been doing domestic bits and pieces to get ready for a small holiday this week where I am also going to a friends wedding in a really beautiful but REMOTE destination.. I am looking forward to it and just preparing for it.

    I met a friend for coffee. She is such a lovely person and like me is desperately looking for love. She feels so lost and hopeless like I do… I hope she meets someone. She was dating a man and it went sadly wrong so she was very, very down and disheartened about starting over again.

    But it was nice to chat to her. It’s like gossiping when you are a teenager and it’s great to have someone to do that with. I can really let go, and just say what I want. I hope she can with me too, but I feel at times she can be ultra sensitive and also DEFENSIVE with me and I worry I come across as a “pull your socks up” type of person. Which I don’t want to be – as I HATE when people are like that with me..

    But it was nice and girly to chat and then we mooched around the shops and I got a few tops and a nice card for the wedding. It’s art deco which is really appropriate as that is the style of the wedding :0

    Well, I sort of told you with my “attacking” D the other day. I have such mixed feelings about it. Something triggered me and I really let rip at him. I sent him a dozen or so emails whilst he was away on a trip and I told him EXACTLY what I thought about him.

    I was really angry and aggressive, and in the morning I woke with a sense of dread at what I had done. Luckily he decided to call me and instead of having a go at me, left a lovely message on my phone checking if I was okay and he wouldn’t be able to rest until I spoke to him.

    In the end I called him back and had a good cry at all the stress he has caused me. He told me he was sorry and we both cried together.

    I am glad that he called but in a way I wish he would just stand back and realise that every time he calls me I get my HOPES up… and I just wonder if he is doing it for his own EGO really. Not deliberately though.

    Anyway, today I am wondering if we have got the point where we are yelling and yelling at each other but then one or the other seems to just SMOOTH it over, and act like everything is FINE. I am worried, that this is REALLY, REALLY unhealthy…

    I feel we are in a TOXIC relationship. I get really angry and he smiles and says he just cares about me and wants me to be happy. What is that about?

    So I realise I can’t speak to him at all. He is just clearing his own guilty conscience and I am NOT responsible for that. I am NOT going to pretend I am okay to make him feel better. OR have I got that wrong?!!

    Sirens, please help!!

  231.  #231Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    .. And what I have noticed about myself…

    I am set in my ways
    I find it hard to be interested
    I struggle with commitment
    I find it hard to focus
    Everything is about me!!
    I don’t like to not feel the main focus of someones life….

  232.  #232Tereana on May 24, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Azure Blu 227. Yes 🙂 exactly. Such a strange thought for me. Lol

  233.  #233Zara on May 24, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    Kath 201

    *****I really don’t think this is right- certainly isn’t healthy but would be really interested to hear your thoughts because I may be the one with the odd ideas!*****

    Not healthy for whom? If it works for them, R included, then it is healthy. If it does not work for them and they persist, it might be judged as unhealthy.
    Judged by whom, though?
    Who can be in their skins and feel how things are working for each of them?
    Not me.
    I can only feel curious about my judgment of unhealthyness, take it back to me where it belongs and search where in my own life I might feel unhealthy.


  234.  #234Tereana on May 24, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Huh. Waterfall, this sounds like a really interesting opportunity for you. I can’t say for sure, from where I’m sitting, that you have a toxic relationship with D or not. What I can say about it is that in you feel your communication is passing by one another, then that’s probably not the best, happiest situation for you.

    I kind of wish, for me, that when I had an angry outburst like that, someone would ask me if *I’m* ok. That rarely happens. I’ve ruined more relationships than I can count by “letting fly” at people over email or text. Then later feeling that sick feeling, but it’s too late, I can’t take it back.

    Here’s a question to ask yourself: are you sure that part of you isn’t just looking for some drama? Could it be that you don’t expect someone to actually care for you? Is it possible that you are hoping they will reject you for having your feelings, and/or you are looking for an excuse to reject them?

    I’m suggesting these because they are all questions I’ve had to ask myself at various times….

  235.  #235Lovetodance on May 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Dear azure just read your response to me
    Ohhh in a nic of time. Your timing and support so buoyant to me
    I have been two memorials this last week…2 cousins in the hospital. One passing…another friend dancing on the edge of sanity
    And I feel needed yet sooo alone
    Where is my tribe?
    Where is my family and community to snuggle close to and feel held and joyful and fun
    It is a low dip today
    I know I need to live closer to friends
    To feel more integral to each others lives on a daily basis
    Just needing to express my sadness do I can clear out and begin Gain from a place of strength
    Thank you azure and all others on this sweet blog for listening xoxo

  236.  #236Millie on May 24, 2015 at 1:43 pm


    I don’t remember all of the details of your relationship with D or the full story really… but my impression from your post regarding the yelling and still constant communication that seems to be damaging..brings me to wonder– If you are talking AROUND something? It sounds like you are being super open with your communication as you told him exactly what you think of him and all….but sometimes I think words are just words, like word vomit, unless you are speaking from the heart, in feeling messages, in solid and short paragraphs that he can hear and understand–so you can both let down your guard and hear each other’s hearts. The anger and the tears is a secondary emotion to whatever is ACTUALLY going on. It is a reaction, a symptom…and does not address the core issue. At least, this is how I see it, but like I said, I’m not too familiar with your dynamic with him nor do I know the full story. I’m just saying this based on your post alone and how it came across to me. Emotions are running high with both of you…I would suggest taking time to feel all of this and take time to articulate your truth. I’m sure you said a lot in those six emails, but were they speaking from your heart to his heart? Or were they angry, defensive, lash out, call you names, you aren’t good enough, adding fuel to the fire type of emails? If I’m way off base here…please let me know.

  237.  #237Femininewoman on May 24, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    That was really great Zara. It is the line of thought I had too. People live their lives the way they want to based on what they think work for them. Just because it might not be right for an observer doesn’t make it wrong. Unless of course they are pushing up against that person’s boundary after being told no.

    Is my humble opinion………..

  238.  #238Femininewoman on May 24, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Waterfall I truly don’t see any toxicity. Men are wired to want to make us happy. That is what I see D doing and saying. Like he will do anything to make you happy, including setting aside his own feelings. At least that was what came to me while reading your comment.

    I also wondered “Waterfall why don’t you try and flip your perspective”. Instead of seeing him as toxic why not see him as human? Instead of talking “to” him why not talk with him? This type of thinking flips something inside me. I wonder if it would do the same for you?

  239.  #239Millie on May 24, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    So yesterday I had a dance lesson! And Ladies, I swear learning partner dancing is also like taking a lesson in relationships! Rori always talks about dating being a dance, and how if the man sits down or goes into the other room, you need to keep dancing! Well–in the dance I was learning yesterday–the teacher said the same thing!!! Let me explain…

    First as he was teaching me the steps I was rushing the timing. He tells me–“let me lead you” Do not anticipate the steps. I’m leading. He says, let me make the first move–not you. Ah! it’s so perfect.

    Then he tells me to use him for balance, to lean back against his hand and chest so he can feel the connection. He said that a man doesn’t want to just touch a woman for a dance, he wants to FEEL her energy and pull against him, which creates tension and allows him to lead her. If there is no pull or resistance, a man cannot lead the woman. This is likened to “spaghetti arms” If you’ve seen Dirty Dancing.

    Another step he was teaching me, a version of Charleston where the man faces a different direction than the woman. It threw me off at first and I kept wanting to be on the same leg as him and in the same direction. He said no–at this point in the dance you dance on your own–the connection still needs to be there, but I am doing my thing and you still continue with your steps, you keep going. And I though that was so amazingly perfect. “When the man faces another way, you keep doing your steps” You don’t stop, look at him, and say what are you doing?, You keep dancing! Oh– I was feeling so sparkly hearing all of this and making the connections and realizing them!!

    I’m pretty natural at dancing, probably because I did it for so long as a child and I have a great muscle memory. I can pick steps up quickly which make dancing so much fun because I feel gratified and love music!!

    Dancing for me is the key to sirendom. I need to remember that because it brings me home. It brings me back. I will always be a dancer, it will be in my identity the rest of my life– and it makes me feel special to have this gift and grow it and be a master at following and creating connection.

  240.  #240tereana on May 24, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Hi Ladies!

    A really funny – and fun – experience just happened for me. I was shopping and feeling all sireny, because I was trying on beautiful dresses that made me feel sexy, but I didn’t buy them because I didn’t feel in love with them, and I wasn’t going to spend money on something I didn’t absolutely love. Plus, I’m practicing being more careful with my money these days. I did buy some things that I needed that also made me happy.

    And afterward, I stopped to get a coffee. The guy at the counter kept looking at me while I was standing in line. He looked at me and smiled in this weird familiar way. So when I got up there I asked him why. He said he thought I looked familiar to him. He was convinced he had seen be before. And maybe he has, but I couldn’t say for sure.

    So then I went to pay for my coffee, and he said it was on him. When he went to give me the coffee, he said he wanted to get my number. But he was busy, so I started to walk away, and he called me back. I had some cards in my bag that have just my name and my phone number and email printed on them. That’s it. So I handed him one and walked off without looking back.

    Next thing I know, he walked up beside me and was talking to me. Apparently it was his break. He told me his name and that it means “angel.” He also told me that he was going to get his doctor’s license soon and start working. So I guess you can’t always judge the guy who’s working the counter at the coffee store – he could be something more than you think.

    Anyway, he walked me out and he started asking me all these questions. And I felt squirmy, but really I was trying to tell him that I had to go and that he should call me later. I did tell him that, but it came out all weird. I sort of said, “If you want to talk to me more, you’ll have to call me.” Like it was a challenge. Then I went down into the train station.

    Lol, so who knows if he will call me. He seemed really, really into me. He was standing so close. I kept pulling away, but really I didn’t actually mind him being so close. I almost felt like he was going to lean in and kiss me. It’s weird. He said he felt nervous talking to me. It’s not every day some guy chases you out of the coffee shop.

    But anyway. I have this cookout to go to. I failed to mention that my phone doesn’t get text messages. So hopefully he’ll figure out that he has to call me…

    Happy Memorial Day US Sirens!

  241.  #241Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    {{{{Lovetodance}} #233
    ohhh… lovely Siren…
    this all sounds heavy and overwhelming for you…
    Yes, you are so right… connection with friends and family is So important… on going… for support
    in times like you are going thru…
    love to you and warm, caring arms for hugs and strength!

  242.  #242Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    Waterfall… #229
    warm Siren, brave Siren

    these are such important insights
    you have discovered
    About YOU…
    Such a mirror you are holding up for YOU…
    Now you can love each and EVERYONE – all of these Wonderful
    parts of YOU!!!

  243.  #243Millie on May 24, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    Azure 215–

    Thank you lovely Siren for your supportive and cheering on words! I am definitely looking for that man in the top 20% and when asked about my dating history I am going to tell men that I don’t stay with someone who isn’t right for me and I haven’t found the right man yet. In a way I almost think that is better than being with the wrong person for years….

    We absolutely can flip this my dear!
    No contact with M has been difficult but also easy…difficult in the sense that I WANT to talk to him and I get those urges a lot. Easy in the sense that I know if I am to have a great relationship and start over with him that HE needs to WANT it. That is the most important ingredient and there would be no point in reaching out and telling him that I want it, because that’s probably what pushed him away to begin with. I wanted things too much. He needs to want it and then we can dance and have this push and pull , but if he’s not in it–there is nothing to pull against. So no contact becomes pretty easy when I know these things. In the past I reached out to my ex a lot and it didn’t change anything. He still felt the way he did regardless of what I said/did. All I can say is that I’m open to him coming back. and talking to me. I’m trying to eradicate “want” from that feeling/sentence since that has a controlling energy around it.

  244.  #244Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    Waterfall/Millie #238

    Such authentic insights, Millie!!!
    this sounds so important
    uncovering and addressing what the underlying
    issues REALLY are…

    Asking things from D
    that YOU are NOT giving to yourself…
    I have learned (and keep learning)
    No other person can fill those needs
    ONLY ONE person can… That is *YOU*

  245.  #245tereana on May 24, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Millie – that is so cool! I understood everything you wrote perfectly. 🙂 It reminds me of when I used to do swing dancing in college. Following was always the hardest challenge. But with practice, I was able to get better at it. Of course, having a good leader makes it easier to follow.

    And I LOVE that about the tension and the balance. I absolutely love that. I’m going to keep that one and think about it. It’s super cool. Leaning forward, there is no tension. If we lead, we are doing what he’s supposed to do. Following doesn’t mean we don’t have agency. It means we are doing what we do at the same time he does what he does. It takes immense AWARENESS. We are watching him, AND doing the steps that we are supposed to do… mmmmmm. So Yummy : )

    I, too, am a dancer, and will always be a dancer. I’m never happier than when I’m dancing. When I dance, I feel purely myself, and as if there is nothing else required. I love that. If I go a week without dancing, I feel there is something missing. That’s partly why I teach the classes.

    Right now I teach Bhangra only, but I wonder if they would let me teach a class in Giddha. Mostly women take the class, and Giddha is way more feminine. You have to feel the steps more than you can think about them. If you start to think about what you are doing, you get all stuck in the particulars and you can’t do the motion smoothly. When I figured out how to do it, it was a major Siren moment. It’s a very sireny dance. I would love to dance it with you : )

  246.  #246Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    millie #227
    Ohhh… I sooo agree with tereana…
    this is sooo profound…
    how dancing is like relationship…

    I took Argentine Tango lessons last 2 months…
    It was Sooo difficult to follow the men
    who did not KNOW (were not familiar with)
    How to lead… it was miserable
    almost impossible…
    the teachers would show them
    and then IF they understood…
    they could lead and
    the dancing became smooth and lovely!!!

  247.  #247Lovetodance on May 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Thank you azure
    For your generosity and caring nature ! May it be returned to you tenfold!
    And how are you doing these moments?

  248.  #248Lovetodance on May 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Gemini woman and mistea1
    Missing your voices!

  249.  #249Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    Sooo fun with the flirty barista!!!
    It sounds like a scene out of a movie!!

    Happy Memorial Day weekend, Sirens!!!

  250.  #250Azure Blu on May 24, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    I have been wondering about gemini godess and mistea also!!!

    Thank you for asking…
    been getting clearer and clearer with
    Knowing that Spirit actually offered so
    very LITTLE…
    That really the relationship left me feeling
    Malnourished and dehydrated///

    BUT still having waves of missing
    and anger/disbelief
    that he would let this amount of time
    go by without asking why…
    or something…

    BUT I don’t want anymore
    of what Spirit offers…
    Sad but true!
    Good for me..

    Taking this time for ME

  251.  #251Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Millie 234 –

    Yes, I see where you are coming from.

    The core issue is that we are very, very different! That is the real problem. We love each other and we miss each other but there is no way we can ever really have a relationship together.

    We met through our walking group and although I like walking I am more of a moderate walker. I like to have a drink halfway at a nice pub, poss a tea shop too thrown in for good measure. When I go on a walking holiday I like to stay somewhere nice and clean.

    He on the other hand is a live out of a rucksack sort of guy. He literally travels with the shirt on his back. He has zero toiletries, prefers hostels to guest houses. He short I guess he is a bit of a hippie. He is completely non-materialistic to the point where he is almost totally self-sufficient. He never wants to even buy a coffee or anything when he is out and about and he never wants to go for a drink in the pub at the end of a walk. The most he will do is grab a bag of chips or a pie or something. We are so different.

    But, saying that I hugely admire him, and possibly have put him on this ridiculously high pedestal. He’s like the man that all the women fancy just because they want to tame him and they want to be the one he settles down with. In fact I always jokingly call him Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights because that is who he reminds me of.

    But yet, in the midst of all this he literally has begged me to stay with him and professes to love me so deeply. This is what scares me. Of course I love him too. He is handsome, he is funny, cheeky, intelligent, sporty, fit, etc, etc and I fancy him a lot.

    Yet when we get together it doesn’t seem to work. I am tidy and neat and like to do thing properly and he is almost the total opposite. And just well he just doesn’t like the finer things in life and I do. I like a nice meal, candles, romance, etc, etc… And he prides himself on not being romantic and being practical. This side of him drives me mad.

    But on the other hand. I can talk to him about anything. He lovingly affectionate. He cares. He is just a very caring bloke and tends to care and want the best for everyone. He really is everyone’s best friend – yet for me – I don’t feel special – because he is like that with everyone!

    He tends to want to look after people and there have been many times when he has put other peoples well being before mine. I often feel quite low down on his list of priorities.

    He always keeps in touch with me. He’s there at the end of the phone / text / email and I do see him a lot but it is always around his schedule – it never feels like I would ever come first in his life.

    I just think it’s the way he is. In his way he loves me, but it’s not enough to change. I feel he makes excuse after excuse of why it won’t work but really it’s because he doesn’t want me enough. I know that’s harsh but I think it’s the truth.

    I think when he finds the right person then he will step up. He will make her his priority. He tells me time and time again that that is not the case and that he loves me, but for me, something doesn’t ring true.

    I guess every time I speak to him I get my hopes up that I will be his priority. He kind of takes advantage of me. He is going through a very difficult period in his life – his parents are incredibly ill – so he tells me he needs me there and can’t cope without me.

    I want to be there but I can’t be affectionate with him as I don’t feel we are now in a relationship. He never understands this and cuddles me and kisses me like we are still together and gets very upset if I push him away. I don’t know what to do.

    The truth is I actually think that I won’t have to worry much longer. I think he is now seeing for himself that our friendship / relationship isn’t working. Especially after all of my nasty emails the other night!

    I have a weird suspicion that he will the plug on the relationship and I will be left reeling but I guess that will be to come.

    Will keep you posted….

  252.  #252Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Feminine Woman 236 –

    Yes, I know what you mean about flipping it around. I think he has a very warm heart and wants the best for me, but the way that I read that is that he wants me to be happy with someone else and not him. He knows he can’t make me happy and isn’t really prepared to try, not deep down.

    We have had so many conversations about what will make me happy and I’ve told him what I want. But he has never really stepped up, he just offers me more of the same and then gets really, really upset if I don’t want it.

    I tell him all the time what I want. I have never tried to hide who I am. The problem is I think deep down I am trying ridiculously hard to make him like me because I want to feel special.

    I always feel like just another face in the crowd. The ratio of men to women in my age group and that are available always seems to be far more women to men.

    So a man like D always stands out from the crowd and much as I am loathed to admit it, me like every other female I know what’s to be noticed by him.

    I can feel myself thinking pick me! pick me!!! So what does that say about me?!

    I know we are not suited, I know he doesn’t treat me well but I still fancy him and long for his arms around me…

    Lol, sometimes I wish I could flip that around!!!!

  253.  #253Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    … I have this weird feeling that I will never hear from D again now. I think this time he has truly moved on.

    He won’t ask me how I am, because he knows we will go around in circles…

    It is sad, but as he is such a practical man I believe he will shape up and ship out and go and search somewhere else…

    He told me whenever he sees or speak to me if we argue it makes him ill…

  254.  #254Marguerite on May 24, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Love the vibe on this blog. And finally decided to post. Another weekend like so many others for me. I’ve been making progress with the tools and there have been positive changes. 🙂 My husband withdrew from our relationship. It was really bad. I have worked on my anger and on communication and it’s better. And I still find frustration because he never gives me the benefit of planning for time together. He just makes plans of his own, and within an hour or so of leaving, invites me to come along. I appreciate this, but it makes it difficult to enjoy our time together when I’m unprepared, may have other plans.
    This weekend is our anniversary. We had talked in passing about making plans. He said he wanted to go away for a few days together. But that didn’t happen because he waited too long to make reservations. Then he decided to spend the weekend sailing. He asked me to go along yesterday, and I did, even though it was spur of the moment and I wasn’t really prepared. I had fun but it threw me off balance and I felt my self esteem waver. Then today, when I called him from the market he told me that he was getting ready to leave to go sailing again with his friends and did I want to go? Well, I was even less prepared today. I would have had to take more than an hour to go home and get ready. I told him how I felt that what was supposed to be our weekend together was turning into me trying to follow him around and feeling very low on his priority list.
    He said that we could meet later on and do something. I felt like I was asking for and getting crumbs so I left it kind of tentative. He hasn’t called and it’s getting late so I’m going to take myself out.

    Wow! Hadn’t expected such a disappointment. I seem to always build myself up into believing that we are actually going to spend some time together and it never happens because it just doesn’t seem that important or exciting to him.

    Circular dating here I come! Need to unstrap myself from this man.

    Should I get a speech together? It seems that I’ve talked to him about this over and over and over again and whether it’s my communication skills I don’t know but it doesn’t seem to have any effect.

    Wondering if I need to just tell him that I need someone who is interested in spending more time with me for the sake of our relationship, and if he can’t step up then it’s time for me to move on.

    How should I say this? No longer painful, just frustrated and feel bad.

  255.  #255Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    .. i always feel like the girl who is never picked. Most men don’t show any interest me at all.

    D made me feel picked. He made me feel special…

    Grrrr, those feelings are about not feeling good enough I guess.

  256.  #256Waterfall on May 24, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    I always feel lik he’s humouring me
    I worry he feels sorry for me and that’s why he is always checking to see if I am okay..

  257.  #257Femininewoman on May 24, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Millie Rori does have a post about letting him lead where she talks about dancing. If I find it I will share

  258.  #258Tereana on May 24, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    The more I think about it and feel into it, without judgment, the more I can see the very plain truth about V: he chose his primary relationship. And he even said it to me recently, that his parents “mean the world to him.” That’s great. And in really proud of him for caring about them so much. But the thing is, that doesn’t fit with my sense of an ideal relationship. An ideal relationship, for me, is one in which *I*mean the world to someone.

    It’s one one which be rearranges his plans for me and for the sake of the relationship.

    It’s one in which he places me and my feelings and my happiness especially at the top of the like of things that he is concerned about.

    It’s one in which there is absolutely no doubt that the above two things are true.

    I can appreciate his choice. I can respect it. I can even understand – even though I don’t have that experience. And even though I also can’t understand. If someone wants a family of their own, I simply cannot comprehend sacrificing that possibility to take care of their parents. Maybe somehow finding a way to do both, sure. But not to absolutely give up one for the other. That’s something I cannot understand at all.

    But the only thing I really need to understand is that he is not my man. Otherwise he would be rearranging everything, telling his parents, and moving heaven and earth to be with me. All I need to know is, he’s not doing that. It hurts like hell sometimes, but also I’m over it. It’s not about me. It’s just not what he’s prepared to offer me or do right now. At some point he will understand and grow up and move away from his parents.

    That’s not right now

  259.  #259Violette on May 24, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    Azure thank you for relating about money. You’re unconditional acceptance of all of us on the blog really uplifts me. I hope I can brighten up myself at some point. I’ve been pretty moody on the blog for quite a while now.

    But better to be moody on the blog than avoiding it altogether for fear of how I might sound, and your posts give me a feeling of safety in sharing my imperfect, glorious process.

  260.  #260Violette on May 24, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    I’ve had some very welcome awareness today in regard to my work problem. My problem of working at jobs I hate to finance the work I love, or the pursuing of it, even though I used to be a success in that field…

    And the problem of not seeing any friends, going out and having fun, or dating, simply because if I did there’s no way I’d get the work in on time.

    The awareness had to do with how this situation came about, with recognizing the feelings that resulted in my energies being so weighted towards negativity in work, and how it’s actually a blessing because it’s become a vehicle to my feelings, the negative ones. I get to feel them as they come up when I’m doing this work.

    And…it won’t be forever!

    I am good at the work I love. I was born to do this work. I am going to do it for the rest of my life. And when it does come raining back down on me, I won’t look back for a minute at all those feelings of darkness and rage, the desires to hurt myself to “show them,” and “make them feel bad.” My feelings of superiority in my suffering, which are precious feelings that are a perfect part of my journey! And a perfect page to turn, which will come in it’s time. My work is to welcome and accept and experience it.

  261.  #261Violette on May 24, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Which brings me to dating.

    I’m 36, I want to live be an old woman. That leaves me 60 years. And as much as I could be comfortable and safe and career focused and just staying in the dating phases, as a single woman, for the rest of my life, I miss out on the whole growth aspect of my life. When I envision a life partner for 60 years, I envision myself as a wiser, more whole, developed woman.

    So I do want to go for it.

    I don’t know when to tell a man I’m available for dinner. I think I can manage Sunday nights though.

    The boundaries are a weak spot for me, saying no I can’t see you when you’re free, only when I’m free. I tend to bend myself so I won’t make a man feel stupid and he won’t back away. But then when do I get my work done?

    It’s so nice to let a man suggest a time and I just say yes. Things flow smoothly and I feel led my him.

    I feel a lot of fear around this part of starting dating again. And I want to really pay attention to it. It’s worth attending to if my wonderful husband is on the other side.

  262.  #262Violette on May 24, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    A girlfriend from ages ago found me on FB and put me in touch with a friend of hers who lives in my new city. The first time we met he chose a very dark and romantic restaurant, he paid, but the second time we say each other he kissed me.

    I told him I didn’t have time for a relationship right now, he said he was fine with things going slower.

    I really want to be friends with him because he has a wide circle and is well connected and is fun. I don’t find him very sexy, mainly he showed me pictures of his parents and I wouldn’t want them for my in laws. Been there done there kind of thing.

    But I didn’t hear from him again, and it played with my head.

    It reminds me of the time I lived abroad and told a man something similar, the next time we saw each other, as friends, he said it was hard for him because he wanted more, and I ended up sleeping with him! I still don’t know if that was out of how hard it is for me to say no to someone I want to keep for a friend, or if I actually had feelings for him.

    This man, M, was on my mind so much I finally reached out to him to do something next week. He was receptive, but didn’t pick up the ball planning wise. This is hard for me, because I don’t know how honest I am about only wanting to be friends.

    I’ve wanted to focus on dating men I could marry, I wouldn’t marry him, and I may burn a bridge by dating him.

    Also I don’t know if he’s just a player and wanting to get in my pants and then disappear, which is why I want to be extra careful about not letting that happen any time soon.

    I finally contacte him again to solidify a time, and as for the details…we shall see. It is hard for me when a man doesn’t take the lead. I did tell him I don’t want to date him basically, so there’s that. But I also don’t know if he’s the kind of man who punishes a woman for not sleeping with him (which he was definitely trying to do, kept bringing up his apartment and the “great books he wanted me to see in his lobby” before I went home.)

  263.  #263Allure on May 24, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    I’m feeling very restless.
    I feel tightness in the base of my skull.
    I feel my heart beat harder.
    Too many energies rushing through me, pulling me and pushing me in different directions.
    Thoughts are a jumbled up mess.
    I don’t know what I want.

    I want to spend some time around here soul searching.
    I need some voices other than my own. My own seems confused, wound up tight, focused off in strange directions.
    I feel a strong urge to go sit on a beach by myself in the night. The argument is that all I do is sit with myself. Even with people all around me.

    I feel unready to share the actual story. I try to begin and i’m stuck. It feels caught up on something. My mind keeps going back to “restless”. Deep, urgent restlessness. Manifesting as people appearing in my life, things happening, shaking me up. Alarm bells literally ringing in my head. Expectations of my man running high.

    I think about breaking up a lot, and I feel ridiculous. There is no good reason. Even when I make up a reason it’s like he senses it and steps up harder.
    I love him. I love him deeply. I don’t want him not in my life and yet I feel a void where my excitement, and passion used to be. I *crave* thrill, excitement, newness. I feel guilt and shame. I feel charged with no outlet.
    I wonder if I cheated myself out of a certain kind of romantic experience by jumping in head first with someone new so swiftly and i’m just feelin it now.
    I have thoughts that I could push this man away from
    me by simply being in ways that I know are a turn off.
    I feel panic when I think about it now. It feels gross and cowardly. Not something I would do.
    It feels good to write out my honest thoughts, however. It is triggering me and it feels cleansing.

    I guess that’s enough for right now.

  264.  #264Violette on May 24, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    I want to believe I can have a man who is committed to me for life, with woman I can also feel entirely free to be myself, without feeling afraid, like I have to hide parts of myself and acomodate him too much.

  265.  #265Allure on May 24, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Weird that I am arguing against CDing myself. I know I need to.
    No more arguing. Maybe I need to start from square one. Take a more positive approach.

  266.  #266Millie on May 24, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    Tereana 243– Oh I’m so glad we could connect on our love and passion for dancing! You are so right in saying that when we are too much in our heads and thinking about the steps we can’t do it…its all about feeling the steps with the music! It is is amazing how similar the concepts are to relationships. I have never heard of Giddha or Bhangra..but I would love to see it and dance it with you as well 🙂

    Femininewoman–Yes! Pls. share if you find them! I know I have definitely read some great posts from Rori on dancing, I know there was one recently a few posts ago.

  267.  #267Indigo on May 24, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    So, the party with D this weekend. I would like to be able to come on here and share that it was wonderful and we had a wonderful time, and I felt cherished and valued by him. But the truth is, I saw some qualities that I don’t think I can live with, in fact I know I can’t… at least not in this form.

    D is 36, never been married, never had a serious relationship lasting more than a year or so (except with me), never lived with a woman for more than a few months. And it shows. He is a good man, a sweet, generous man and I love him dearly. But he is selfish. It comes out in just so many things that he does – the fact that he is not thinking of me, or how things may affect me, or how I might feel, or what might be good for me. I know thinking about those things is my job, but I don’t want to be the ONLY one.

    It started on Friday afternoon. He had to fly to a different city and back for the day to see a client, and I knew this would wear him out, so I didn’t make demands on him. I even asked him if he was still up to the party the next day, but I thought it would be nice to see him that night (Friday) anyway. He brushed me off saying he was tired and would talk to me the next day.

    Well, at the party I felt pretty sidelined. He acted like a free agent, mingling with his friends, not checking on me or getting me a drink. Normally I would not mind this in and of itself, but I’ve been starting to sense a growing pattern of him “leaving me to fend for myself” whilst he does exactly what he wants to do and doesn’t think of me. I went to bed on Saturday night with an uncomfy feeling, with my head filled with thoughts of I don’t think I can go the rest of my life feeling so… sidelined. I know it sounds insignificant from these two incidents, but it’s a feeling that has been building up for some time from other things.

    On Sunday I went back to my house and gave myself a manicure and pedicure and watched some of my girly TV shows, and then in the afternoon went to visit my parents. When I saw D on Sunday night he seemed totally oblivious to how I was feeling, he was lovey dovey and affectionate and his normal self-involved self. I confided in him that I felt lonely and he made some suggestions about me joining a social club or getting into a hobby where I could make friends, and I appreciated these suggestions because I know I have been neglecting these things. I will make more of an effort to go out and meet new people and go to events from now on.

    But then I asked him if things would ever change between us, him and me. He said he didn’t know but probably not, since he likes to be by himself a lot. So do I, but I don’t know if I can handle this level of self-involvement from a partner – it’s not the doing separate things, it’s the fact that he’s not thinking of me or caring how I feel about it that bothers me.

    I don’t know Sirens, I’m feeling like I can’t do this for a lifetime.

  268.  #268Lovetodance on May 24, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    ‘Left feeling malnourished and de-hydrated’
    Wow ….
    That says it all …..
    So good to get clear on how we Really feel with someone
    To get pass our needs of them
    Our fantasy s of them
    Our need to be loved and desired by them no matter what..
    To get to What does it really feel like to be with them …to be in relationship with them
    You gave spirit time to step up
    To show who he was could or could’ve be to/with you
    I feel you did an extraordinary job
    Learned so much
    Honed so many new ways of being in Relationship
    Getting closer to really opening to the dance of intimacy
    Fabulous work beautiful siren!

  269.  #269Millie on May 25, 2015 at 12:02 am

    Waterfall– thank you for sharing all of that, I see a bit more clearly what the issue is. My initial response to the first part of your post is that–it’s ok to be different, to be complete opposites, if two people compliment each other’s individuality and support those identities. He encourages you to be you, and you encourage him to be him. I do see how that could be difficult when it comes to logistics–like you want to stay in a hotel and he wants to sleep in a tent. In that case a huge compromise needs to be made by both parties. It sounds like to me….and I’m not an expert by any means, but that you don’t love each other enough to support each other’s differences. And that’s ok…It’s not the relationship that you want..and it’s actually wonderful to realize that! So I think what you are feeling totally makes sense!

    The other thing I’m hearing is that you feel like you are in a pool of women and he is doing the choosing. You feel like you need him to choose you in order to feel special, but I also hear that he doesn’t make you feel special. Just remember lovely Siren, that we choose the most qualified suitor out of a pool of suitors. We have men circling US, drawn in by our siren song. It’s easy to forget how that feels when our man lets us down… but remember, you do stand out..embrace yourself and honor your individuality because no other woman out there is like you. 🙂

  270.  #270Millie on May 25, 2015 at 12:14 am

    The CD Adventures of Millie:
    Just got home from meeting guy#4! I had a great time! At first I felt hesitant because he wasn’t making eye contact and is also an actor, which I normally shy away from just because I’ve known a lot through my arts background and didn’t think their personalities were for me…This guy does have that “theater actor” type, I can spot it a mile away, but I really liked talking to him, he felt very open and introspective and hot…did I mention hot? He had a button down shirt on, but unbuttoned a little too far and no undershirt, so I could catch a glimpse of his very toned chest. Normally, I would think “oh man..” and roll my eyes, but I’m curious and having fun! I want to give all the guys at least three dates if they are interested. He gave me a light kiss goodnight–oh and wore cowboy boots!! I love that! We have a second date planned for this weekend. So we shall see!

    Guy#3 who I went out with last night–text me tonight at like 11 seeing what I was doing. I’m at this point where I think guys do that to test women. They want to see if they are available. I can’t think of any other reason, unless they are just looking for easy booty, which none of these guys gave that vibe off to me. And it doesn’t matter because I’m not doing that. So he asked me to dinner this week.

    Guy #2 Another 8pm are you free texter. Maybe he’ll step it up, maybe not.

    Guy #1 A sweetheart. He contacts me every day but we haven’t been able to meet up for a second date yet due to scheduling. He is making effort though!

    More to come! CDing is fun!

  271.  #271Millie on May 25, 2015 at 12:19 am

    Marguerite 252– I love your name, such a delicate flower! Your situation does sound frustrating…I’m wondering what happened to cause him to withdraw in the first place? Do you know? Also, are you ready to leave the relationship? What do you feel in your gut?

  272.  #272Millie on May 25, 2015 at 12:28 am

    Oh! and one more thing about Guy#4 The eye contact got so much better as the evening progressed. Maybe he was nervous…hmm 🙂

  273.  #273Millie on May 25, 2015 at 12:47 am

    Oh funny thing–Guy#3 called me to plan a night for dinner because I said I was busy friday and sat. I told him I could do thursday or sunday– He was like “I don’t want to be the Sunday guy!” It was pretty funny. He wants to be the Friday or Saturday guy. So I told him we could plan next Friday (2weeks) and he said he couldn’t wait that long! So he took Sunday…I totally get his point, but just happened that this week I got booked already!
    I love this CDing!!! I’m totally going to be a pro!

  274.  #274Indigo on May 25, 2015 at 1:49 am


    I’m really loving the insight and wisdom and self-confidence that is coming through because of your CDing experiences! 🙂

  275.  #275Indigo on May 25, 2015 at 3:59 am

    One thing the realisations from this weekend have done for me is convince me that I need to get a life. REALLY get a life 🙂

  276.  #276Femininewoman on May 25, 2015 at 4:44 am

    Indigo I know that guys would want their woman to be able to fend for themselves. Especially in a case where they have kids, just in case something happens to him. Some of the things you say suggest expectations and kind of wanting him to read your mind. Though, yes, after being together for a while people get to know how to make the other happy. Then again, maybe that could be a reason why he hesitated inviting you in the past. He knows he wants to be a free agent.

    The thing that bothers me the most is what he said and the internal feelings you have. It might take me a long time to come to grips with what he said and the feelings around it but looking at it from this end I can tell you it seems to me that it is a situation worthy of cold turkey dropping. I am kinda fearful of men who won’t change. I believe a woman’s presence inspire change in men. “Likes being by himself a lot” reads to me like I am really not interested in a relationship. Or maybe choosing relationship on my terms only.

    For me commitment is a negotiated agreement between two. What you have written have given me the heebeegeevee feeling that you are not on the same page as he.

  277.  #277Labbit on May 25, 2015 at 5:34 am

    265 Indigo — Hmm, a few quick thoughts before I head out for the day.

    We know that D is kind of a tough one, right? I’m curious, is he an only child? Does he have any sisters? And how close in years are any siblings he has? I have noticed a HUGE difference in my relationships with men who are only children or who are the oldest/youngest by 10 or more years (they tend to be extra selfish, even when they don’t mean to be because they are so used to not being concerned with another human being at any intimate level. They simply don’t know how). Then, men who have sisters, especially if they are older and the sisters are close to them in age, tend to be extra good at all the romantic, doting stuff I love! So while this doesn’t change anything, it is good to chew on for a bit. With the only children I found myself doing a lot of explaining about what a woman needs. I know men learn from their fathers and mothers…but I would argue siblings are just as important.

    I wonder if perhaps asking D if the party was still a go came from fear? Men are always ready for the future…so I’d think that if he wanted to cancel the party he would have brought it up earlier. Meanwhile we women are over here WORRYING about the future…and he doesn’t want anything to do with this part of us. And really neither do we. We want to be fun, creative, immersed in the now and what’s happening right around us. I could see him taking your innocent question personally…wondering if you even WANT to have the party.

    So that all turns into him half-ignoring you, which sends you a little deeper into uncertainty, and then asking him if this is how it’s always going to be. I have to believe in that moment ANY man would have given the answer D did. He’s tired from a whirlwind trip, he rallied for a party (that I’m sure he DID want to have, but still) and he can feel something’s off with you but he doesn’t know what and it doesn’t feel good. I dunno, I’d probably sigh and say nothing is ever gonna change myself. 😉

    Not that this makes any of it right, or fun, or what you want. I was with a man who was like this…a bit immature on the emotional uptake and if I wasn’t in top form he would quickly turn mopey and sour. I eventually tired of it. I couldn’t handle having to carry 90% of the emotional weight by myself. He didn’t want to learn or grow — that was the dealbreaker.

    What did you do at the party? Did you chat up others? Were you feeling off-balance, and did any of that show outwardly? If Tender were to ignore me at a party to chat up friends, I’d probably find the hottest men at the party to talk to for a bit. 😉

    I wouldn’t do anything right now aside from, as you say, look for things to fill up your life. Getting yourself back to center. Letting any tension you have run around inside til it finds its exit. I’m in a similar boat myself, looking to see what things I love have dropped out of my routine.

  278.  #278Labbit on May 25, 2015 at 5:40 am

    Also Indigo, I hope this does not offend but I am LOL’ing at how he was back to his normal, affectionate self on Sunday. I actually see that as a GOOD sign. And I think you were very right in taking that opportunity to open up and be vulnerable.

    But of course, typical male problem-solving, he takes your expression of vulnerability in saying you’re feeling lonely, and tells you to join a social club. PROBLEM SOLVED. MAN DONE GOOD. LOL! I would encourage you to try again…a little softer, no lonely or alone, maybe something more along the lines of talking about how you had built up some expectations for how Saturday would go, you found yourself feeling a little disappointed things didn’t go that way, and would he be open to discussing it? I would encourage you not to dance around what’s upsetting you.

  279.  #279Labbit on May 25, 2015 at 5:54 am

    OK one last thing and then I really do have to run LOL.

    This isn’t QUITE the same thing but it’s coming up strongly in my mind right now, so I am going to share it just in case it’s helpful. (And if it’s not feel free to discard.)

    I can remember back when Tender and I were negotiating relationship, there was a point right after I started dumping my other CDs that he was suddenly very “busy.” (There’s that word again.) He would tell me things like, “I can’t see you this weekend because I’m BUSY. Let’s plan for next week.”

    This pissed me off something awful at the time. But what I realized later was this was a test of sorts, Tender making sure that I had a life outside of him — beyond dating other guys, haha — that I was passionate about, so that in the times when he was legit unavailable it wasn’t going to become an escalating fight between us. I know this is a big part of why he broke things off with his ex-fiance. She was totally codependent on him, which is great until a big project comes along at work or some other scenario.

    I know it’s hard because while he’s courting you there is somewhat of an expectation that he’ll offer up to two days for a date and you want to be free on one of those two for example. So as a trade-off I’d often end up rearranging my life a bit around him. I know many of the books say not to do this but I think it’s unavoidable. There are days I’ve blacked out as never-date days: evenings I have stuff that’s SO important to me I’d never want to miss those things. But beyond those two eves, I try to make myself for free for Tender as a courtesy. I don’t think I’ve told him I can’t see him this week since we went exclusive, yet he has told me that once or twice.

    And then what I see this weekend is that instead of continuing my life when he wasn’t around, I’d started “holding” those days and eves open for him just in case. That just in case was my mistake. I’d stopped seeing my friends as much, just in case Tender wanted to do something. Etc. So it feels GREAT this weekend filling myself back up, and I have to think that Tender maybe sensed this on some level too, or perhaps felt the same in HIS own life.

    So yes, yes, I’d encourage you to look at maybe what things you love to do that have dropped off, or what things you want to do that you’ve been waiting on. A man loves stealing you away from things you’d rather be doing. It’s part of the hunt, part of that competition he so loves that can keep a relationship rich forever.

    Writing this out…I think it’s just as much for me as it is for you Indigo. Thank you for being my morning catalyst!!

  280.  #280forest siren on May 25, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Millie you are an inspiration!

    Labbit you are a genius! I LOVE everything you say!

  281.  #281tereana on May 25, 2015 at 7:43 am

    Millie – Yay!! Dancing is the best 🙂

  282.  #282Indigo on May 25, 2015 at 8:56 am

    Feminine Woman 174,

    I think you have read the situation pretty accurately in many ways, although might need a bit of context.

    The idea of me not being able to fend for myself made me giggle because there is very little that anyone else does for me. I own my own place, my own car, earn my own money and pay my own bills (and have done since I was 18). So it’s not a case of me not being able to fend for myself if something happened to him, I already do. It’s highly unlikely that D wouldn’t know that, but I suppose it’s possible. It’s not that I want to be rescued, I just want to be considered.

    That said, I think I do have expectations, but I really should be having them of myself. I’ve had ample time to see who D is, and there are many ways in which he makes me happy but there are others in which he doesn’t, and it’s really up to me to decide if I can accept it or not. I have badly neglected my own social life and hobbies and interests of late, and my expectations really should be going to myself to fulfill my life and meet new people and have things going on for myself. I really saw that this weekend and I won’t let myself down again.

    What you said about D liking to be by himself and this indicating that he’s not really interested in a relationship had a lot of truth in it… Well, the second part of your paragraph was more true. He is quite happy to have a relationship, he is a monogamous, loyal man – but on his terms. This means his partner would need to accept the amount of time he likes to be a free agent or by himself. Don’t get me wrong – he’s not the cheating type, but I really don’t think he “gets” the togetherness and inter-dependence aspect of most people’s idea of relationship. I can get on board with him approximately 75% of the time, but not 100%.

    As far as feeling that he and I are not on the same page, we are definitely NOT on the same page. I want something more committed, I want to live together, he doesn’t right now. That is not news to me. I’ve known it for a while. But I’m really starting to FEEL it recently. But I really just want to feel my way through this – I don’t see it as a problem that needs solving right away. At this stage I just want to start expanding my own life and expanding my circle and meeting new people, which I would need to do anyway.

  283.  #283victoria on May 25, 2015 at 10:21 am

    What is the point of living together? For a while I have considered whether I want todo that myself. The only benefit I see in this is that I would see him everyday. All other things, in my case would be a negative. And, at this stage, he is not begging me to see me every day. I don’t want to live with someone who is not crazy about spending all his time with me.
    I am so sorry you were disappointed by the party. I guess he totally does not understand your point of view, or if he does, he deliberately chooses to ignore your wishes. In either case, I see you have made great progress in seeing the situation for what it is.

  284.  #284Beloved on May 25, 2015 at 10:52 am

    Yesterday my DIL revealed to me that my son has been engaging in shady behavior and she was talking as if their relationship was already over and she had moved on in my mind. She was pointing the finger of blame at him, which felt awful and I told her that, and also encouraged her to follow through on her idea of seeing a therapist (I doubt she will) because I naturally am biased and I love them both and I can’t just listen neutrally.

    What this has brought up for me…is a HUGE trigger, a reminder of the gut and heart-wrenching pain I went through with his father. Feeling so helpless, watching him go through his own personal h3ll and self-destructive patterns and recriminations and punishments that were only going on in his own mind.
    One day I said I felt angry that he promised yet again to pick up our son, and didn’t show up or call or anything, and next thing I know he’s decided he isn’t going to see our son anymore and that’s MY choice.

    I’m oscillating back and forth between feeling okay and good and accepting, and feeling all of that pain and despair and grief again. I knew things weren’t OK, and, neither one of them really would ever open up about it, they had their minds set on being together, and once my grandson was born, I sure didn’t want to rock the boat. I wanted things to be working out.

    And, I don’t know if they will or won’t. It sure doesn’t look good at this point. They are both looking to the other to change and neither of them wants to change or feels like they can change themselves. So.

    My heart aches, aches, aches. This is so not what I wanted for my son. I feel like he has given up on himself and I feel such a deep sadness that every sacrifice I made, trying to give him a better life , I just don’t want it to be for nothing. I want him to feel how deeply, deeply loved he is. I never never wanted him to be touched by the deep feelings of wrongness and self-hatred that I grew up with and have only recently been able to even touch and begin to release.

    He’s a grown man, I know, and in my heart he’s still my baby and I am just bawling because I feel like he deserved a much, much better mother than me. He deserved so much more than I could give him and I hate that I kept thinking life would get better for us and by the time it did, it was just too late, the damage had been done.

    I feel like I want the universe to hear my NO, NO NO NO this is not okay, this is not ok, it isn’t is fault he was born with so much on his shoulders and now he’s paying for our stupid mistakes.

    I’m imagining he’s going to spiral even further down into the abyss and I don’t know if that’s true. It’s what his father did, and I don’t want that. I didn’t want that then, and I don’t want that now.

    I feel like I’m getting it mixed up with the past, with the grieving over his father. No, no, no I DON’T WANT YOU TO RETREAT INTO BEATING UP YOURSELF! I don’t want that!! I want your love and affection and your presence and I want you in our son’s life!

    I feel rage, I feel like I’m seething at the injustice of it all. At the downright meanness I’ve experienced and seen people I love experience and the effects of it on us.
    Feels good to get all of that out.

  285.  #285Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 11:18 am

    Indigo #265
    I know we are all sensitive of reactions from
    Siren Island
    after we have been very vulnerable with our feelings and the truth about our relationship
    Because I love and care about you
    I want to be upfront with how
    what you are saying feels to me…

    I feel confused and angry that after 4 years
    D continues to show you little respect and adoration
    around his/your friends and out in public…
    You are such a warm, caring Siren…
    You have tried ALLLLL the tools, this way and that way
    to invite HIM to step up…
    and He continues to tell you…
    “I dont want anymore than this in a relationship”
    Which is fine… You can’t change HIM…

    There is NOTHING wrong with what he wants…

    AND there is NOTHING Wrong With what you
    And as long as you keep showing up…
    even though you ask for more…
    He thinks YOU are Happy with what HE is
    offering you…

    Are you ignoring Indigo and her precious, legitimate
    needs… If YOU don’t listen who will… sweet Indigo?

    IMHO… you have told us here on Siren Island
    YOU *DO* want a committed – close relationship
    Do you believe you Actually Deserve that?

    I hope you take it in the loving, caring
    spirit it is meant…

  286.  #286Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 11:50 am

    {{{{Beloved}}}} #282
    YOU have changed… it Is NEVER too late to change for your children…
    this change YOU have made
    all these Rori tools you use so brilliantly
    enlighten and invigorate and
    improve ALLL our relationships
    as you so well know (like all the tools you so deftly use at your house)

    I am sooo sorry you are feeling such pain and anguish about your son’s heart and soul…
    He is lucky to have an amazing,
    wonderful mother on his side!!!

  287.  #287CurvySiren10 on May 25, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Victoria, I respect what everyone’s ideal relationship looks like, but that being said~~ I find ‘living together’ to be SO overrated in terms of what it does for a relationship. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with not wanting that and in fact, having the opposite… a committed relationship with a LAT (Living Apart Together) situation. It’s a big thing in Europe (over 10% of married/committed couples report doing this) and growing in numbers. I can tell you it’s a whole other world and I have nothing but positive things to say about this arrangement. Not that everyone will choose this option, just making the point that it can be wonderful when you and/or your partner have a great need/desire for their own space and time while also wanting to be committed.

  288.  #288Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 11:58 am

    Allure #261
    Welcome lovely Siren…
    Your voice is so authentic…
    thank you for sharing here
    Your solution of CDing with yourself.
    makes a lot of sense to me…
    or asking/taking space to
    see what YOUR feelings are
    to love and listen carefully
    to YOUR feelings.
    IF YOU dont’ listen…
    Who will?

  289.  #289Beloved on May 25, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    Azure thank you, darling beautiful soul…
    Right next to my face, on the wall, I have written a note to myself that says, “I believe in my own power to change.”

    I AM on his side, I love him SO much.
    And, I can’t give him what he craves which is his father’s love and presence and his own love and acceptance and all I can do as far as I know is …keep loving them.
    I made a commitment to call or text him once a week (his voicemail isn’t set up??) just to say hi. Just to be a regular presence, no pressure to talk or anything, just saying hi and I love him. I feel he needs that from me, just something consistent and no pressure.

    Just a few moments ago, though, I was feeling so much peace and gratitude. This was how I felt nearly EVERY DAY for years and years. I am feeling love and amazement for myself and wondering HOW did I get through all of that? How did I LIVE through all of that? No wonder I wanted to feel checked out, no wonder I had a death wish, no wonder I want to just go live out the rest of my years alone in the woods as an old hermit woman! No wonder I wanted to withdraw. It’s just crazy that I used to live with this kind of stuff every day. I am so, so grateful.

  290.  #290Femininewoman on May 25, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Indigo – isn’t interesting how different people can be?

  291.  #291Kim on May 25, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Just checking in from a road trip with my man! Had lots of fun even with me still coughing and spluttering…lol.
    He is really good to me and for me…I kept him up all night with my coughing and he was just concerned with me. Aww…always saying how happy he is with me and making memories with me 🙂
    I need these little escapes to see us through the day-to-day stuff 🙂
    Reading up on it all…Azure, I love what you wrote to Indigo.
    I would say also, sometimes we stay in situations because they suit us at the time and are ‘enough’ and then we simply grow out of it at one point and could never go back.
    I always love this one: ‘don’t make a guy your only option if you are only an option’ or something like that…if a man drops off because we discontinue being his only option and are just not available on his terms anymore, then he drops off for a reason.
    I also think it is ok to want what we want and if a man tells us he is probably not going to want the same thing, he is basically waving a disclaimer in front of our nose for his convenient exit for whatever reason – I never liked that…
    Anyhow, I am still not sure how I feel about the whole living together thing, but it was definitely something I wanted also when I eventually get married, for sure.
    I do love the fact of waking up and fallong asleep with someone and having that close intimacy, and sharing everything…meals etc.
    Though it is taking some getting used to….and it hasn’t been easy…I see it also as a way of working on me, and not perpetuating my hermit life longer. I felt a bit like ‘now or never’…because I did hesitate to trade in my carefree bachelorette life with lovely dates, for something much less exciting seemingly…but it feels more real than weekend dates. That’s for sure. More real and more raw!
    The jury is still out. I’ll keep you all posted! Lol

  292.  #292Dixie on May 25, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    283 Azure
    To echo what Kim said above, I love what you said to Indigo – so gentle and compassionate and coming from a place of love.

    Indigo, my heart lies with Azure’s words here. You are such an amazing woman and although I trust that D. loves you, well, you get to decide whether this is enough.

    I can only speak about what I know from my own experience so maybe that’s why your experience resonates so much. I can feel in my core that D. loves and cares for you, as much as he knows how. And you get to decide now, if that is enough for you.

    In terms of what he said, D. may be coming from a place of fear – of commitment, or losing autonomy, whatever – but that’s for HIM to sort out. I would just lead with my emotions on this- if things feel good, then let them be. If not, then the only thing is to change your reaction to this situation. I think the quotation Kim was looking for was “Don’t make someone a priority if they’ve only made you an option”, something like that.

    Kim’s experience has shown me that a man who wants to be with a woman will face his own inner goop, and move (metaphorical) mountains, unwieldy as they may be, just to be. with. her.

    In my mailbox today, I got a newletter from Rori, the one where she mentions that if you can “trust” that a man loves you, then you free yourself to act authentically from that place of safety, even if means saying “This is not enough for me,”

    I’m not offering advice, but sending you love and support.

  293.  #293April Rose on May 25, 2015 at 4:00 pm


    I was struggling with Rori’s newsletter (trust that a man loves you) until I read what you wrote above
    “I was with a man who was like this…a bit immature on the emotional uptake and if I wasn’t in top form he would quickly turn mopey and sour. I eventually tired of it. I couldn’t handle having to carry 90% of the emotional weight by myself. He didn’t want to learn or grow — that was the dealbreaker.”

    I have just cooled things off with a man who was doing so much to show me he loved me. Many practical things like fixing broken stuff in my house, and bringing me things I needed. Yet the emotional connection between us was very much as you described above.

    It makes me sad and uncertain, to think I may have rejected him despite him showing me in his own way that he loves me.

  294.  #294April Rose on May 25, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    I didn’t want to lead him on.

    I think it was John Grey who wrote that if you have decided that this is not your forever person, then it is leading them on if you continue to date or be in a relationship with them.

    Also, I wanted to create space in my life for a great match.

  295.  #295Millie on May 25, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Had a dream about M the other night. That we were in school and I passed him in the hallway. Shot him a siren smile and he ran after me, held me in his arms and apologized. Said he was “figuring things out” for us. In my dream he looked so tired, blood drained from his face, hair graying. It felt so real to be held by him. It was a nice thought.

    Guy#5 whom I haven’t met is looking unpromising. We have been texting but when it comes to making plans it seems he can choose a day and make a definite plan with a location. It’s not rocket science. So I’m getting bored with him and finally decided to stop replying. I get the feeling he is looking for a hook up anyway but hasn’t outright said it. I feel above that and above his vague behavior.

    Overall I’m feeling pretty relaxed today. When I have moments of weakness and longing, I’m telling myself it’s ok to not be ok.

  296.  #296Millie on May 25, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    *cant. He can’t settle in a day/time/location

  297.  #297April Rose on May 25, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    It was mainly the fear/discomfort/uncertainty/closing that would arrive in my heart on the days that I had arranged to go out with him, that decided me in the end.
    I just wasn’t feeling the pleasure of it.

  298.  #298April Rose on May 25, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    You rock!

  299.  #299Kim on May 25, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    Dixie! Yes, that is the quote! Lol.
    Trust my air-head to get it mangled.
    And yes, my guy was/is very slow on commitment and probably fits the commitment phobe category lol. But: he has fought with himself plenty of time, and edged forward and really changed from a very passive and borderline feminine man, to be much more assertive, more of a planner and doer.
    I also believe it is true to a certain extent that a man wants to heal through us and change to be a better man – provided he is all in and he wants a committed relationship.
    Unfortunately, I have experienced plenty of men who are hot/cold and too much stuck in their comfort zone and just do not want a relationship that is intimate and takes growth.
    These days, it is easy for those types of men to get the companionship and sex they desire, without needing to provide a commitment/safety/security.
    I think plenty of times that is our fault as women.
    We do let them have their cake and eat it….rather than showing them the way to really get to a woman’s heart.
    Or just dumping them for someone who is all in and willing/able for the same that we want and deserve.
    I have made that mistake with a few guys..dated them longer than I should have, and given more of myself that was necessary to understand their heart was not in it…
    All a learning curve

  300.  #300Tereana on May 25, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    Say hello to the Siren who takes no BS on a date 🙂

    Hahaha. I feel like celebrating. I’ve always wanted to be the kind of woman who doesn’t let people lie to her, etc. Yet up until now, I’ve usually been so focused on pleasing people that I’ve been able to let them tell me whatever they want without questioning them. But I think I’ve finally gotten in touch with my BS-O-meter. Lol

    He brought me a coke with my name on it.

    He got dressed up, even though he was just coming from working at the coffee place. Nice shirt, nice pants. I noticed.

    This was the man I met yesterday. The one who chased me down from the coffee place.

    We’ll call him R.

    Anyway, we were sitting there, talking about ourselves. Mostly him telling me about him. And I was listening. He asked if I had kids. No, did he? Yes, one. I asked if he had been married. He had no ring on. Yes, he’d been married in Morrocco, where he’s from.

    And then things got hazy. How old was the child? When did he get married? How old was he when he got married? I was asking these questions, and he was talking around the answers, not getting right to the point. I kept asking. And I told him, I know when someone is holding back. I know when someone is keeping something from me, even if I don’t knkw what it is. And I warned him that if he didn’t give me straight answers, then I would walk away, because I need to know if I can trust him to say the truth.

    So, a few more times, I tried to understand the story. But he wasn’t making any sense. Finally I said, “I don’t know what’s going in here.” I got up, thanked him, and walked off.

    He chased me down again.

    (To be continued)

  301.  #301Labbit on May 25, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    April Rose — Hugs to you. I know that one saying that really turned things around for me was when I read that it’s the relationship you want, not the person. Even now I spend a bit of time (about 10 minutes each) in the morning and evening visualizing my ideal relationship. And while things are headed towards engagement with Tender, when I picture my ideal relationship it’s not about any specific man. It’s about what I want to feel, and experience, and the emotions and feelings that come along with all that!

    When you picture the relationship you want, it’s much easier to know whether a man can or can’t do for you. I had wasted so much time trying to bend myself or bend a man to fit a picture of what I wanted, rather than just finding the guy who fits the picture perfectly and without me having to change who I am. Now that he’s here I have to tell you…things are really easy. Not perfect, but definitely easy.

    The same is totally out there for you. If not with this man, then certainly there is a man or probably many men who would fit your ideal. Picture the relationship you want and let the man who fits that show up. 🙂

  302.  #302Labbit on May 25, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Millie I am LOVING all of your CD’ing tales. It’s a fun rush, and can be exhausting at times, but everything you’re learning about men — and the different kinds of men out there — is INVALUABLE. Hooray YOU!!!

    Relaxed, playful, in the moment, just being, sitting back, observing, these are all things you want when it comes to early dating. You bring your best to each date — fun, easygoing, appreciative — and he will too. 🙂 And then the fun REALLY begins.

  303.  #303Kim on May 25, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    298 Amen Labbit, this really sums it up.
    Once we know what we want and *deserve* it is much easier to let the messemgers go, along the way.
    Thank you, next 🙂

  304.  #304Tereana on May 25, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    Part deux:

    So after he chased me down (again), this time walking away from where we were sitting at the outdoor tables at the coffee shop, he finally explained to me the story. As in, the truth.

    After a little more pre-amble, he managed to come out and tell me that in fact, he was still married to his wife. He lives in America, the wife lives in Morocco. His daughter lives in Morocco. Part of why I was so confused about all this was that, at the beginning of our conversation, he told me that the last significant relationship he had been in was with a woman in the US who had had to leave to go back to Japan, Four years ago. (Parallel here with me and V)

    And what he told me, as he was telling me that he was technically still married, in the process of divorce, was that he had only loved the woman in the US. Apparently – though he never said it as such – the marriage he had was one that was not based on love. It sounds like it was based on families, making arrangements, etc.

    He sounds like a very sensitive, feeling, emotional man. He talked about getting up early in the morning, before me, and making coffee the way I like it, and making breakfast on a tray and bringing it to me with a flower and a little card. This I’m mentioning to illustrate how romantic he comes across to me as being. And yet, his family is there. And he is here. And he has not yet finalized the divorce. I asked, and he said that the wife wants them to be together.

    So…this is a lot to come out on a first date. But I proud of myself – dang proud of myself – for walking away when I realized I was not getting answers. I am proud of myself for standing up for the truth. That is, whatever a person’s truth, that that is what should be said, out in the open.

    He told me that he didn’t want to say it because he was afraid of losing me. He seems like he reeeeallly wants me. And I reminding him that he’s only just met me. But for some odd reason, I can tell that he is just zeroing in on me. It’s odd. Yet it feels right.

    And, here’s the thing for me. I haven’t decided if I “Like” him or not. But my body reacts. Ooh, my body reacts. It’s that thing, you know, where you feel all normal, but then you go to the bathroom, and it’s like “Hello!” down there. You know what I mean. Right, ladies? Panty splashes. I’m talking panty splashes. That’s right. Yeah, I said it.

    And I get it, if he’s just standing next to me, talking to me. I didn’t even let him kiss me on the cheek. But oh, my…party in the pants.

    So after he told me his true story, I told him I needed to go and think. I thanked him, and I meant it. I feel very grateful to know the truth. I can only make a solid decision if I know what the truth really is. And by then, it had been just over an hour.

    I’m proud of myself for asking for my time to think. I’m proud of myself for asking questions, for listening, and being open to the truth.

    And he called me twice while I was on my way home. I didn’t pick up either time. I still need my thinking time.


  305.  #305Tereana on May 25, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    That is so weird. I swear I posted a whole thing that was part one. And now it’s missing.

    Anyway. Part one:

    He brought me a Coke with my name on it.

    He met me after working at the coffee place, but he changed his clothes so that he had on a nice shirt and pants. And I noticed.

    He said that he did not drink coffee all day, because he was waiting to have coffee with me.

    But some things came up.

    Turns out, he’s not a doctor, per se. I had to play a sort of guessing game to figure it out, but he’s really a technician, not a physician. He’s just graduated from the program and will get his license soon so he can start working at that instead of the coffee place. Still, yesterday, I’m pretty sure he told me he was a doctor.

    And then I had to play a different kind of a guessing game. He asked if I had kids. No, Did he? Yes, he said. One daughter. He said his daughter is 4 years old and lives with her mom in Morocco, where he’s from. Ok. So then I was trying to do the math. She’s 4 years old. He had told me already that he had been in the States for 6 years. So how is she 4? He said he was married before. So what year did he get married? How old was he at the time? And when was the divorce?

    He kept talking around all these points. When I asked a question, he would not give me a straight answer. I threatened to leave if he would not tell me the truth.

    I looked him in the eye, and I said, “I can tell when someone is hiding something from me. I know that there is a big thing that you are not telling me, that you are avoiding telling me. It doesn’t mean I know what it is, but I know when there is something.”

    After a few more minutes of me trying to figure out what was going on, and not getting any real answers from him, I stood up. We were at an outside table by the cafe. I thanked him for the drink, and I left. “I don’t know what’s going on here,” I said. And I turned around and walked off.

    That’s when he chased me down (again).

    And the rest is Part Deux (#301)

  306.  #306Tereana on May 25, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    I just feel great. I feel powerful today. I feel proud of myself for being “that woman” – i.e. that woman who will not put up with BS. Who will turn around and walk away if someone is not being totally straight with her. I am very, very proud of myself. This is a good day

  307.  #307Tereana on May 25, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    Oh yeah, and it’s so funny. I was wanting so much for V to be calling me. It seemed like, no matter what I did – if I leaned back or leaned forward, it didn’t make a diffderence. He just wasn’t calling me. Even when he said he would “try to” more. Pssh. Whatevs. Yeah.

    So now, I’ve got this guy calling me multiple times, and I’m not even picking up every time. I’ve got my ex, who chatted with me, even when he was tired from a drive back from New York.

    Be careful what you wish for, right?

    Well, V is history. I mean, literally. I think of that whole episode as in the past. I have new Men in my field of vision. Men who are appreciating me. Men who are thanking me for my time and attention. Men who want to spend their time on me and are thinking about what makes *me* happy. That’s good stuff : )

  308.  #308Beloved on May 25, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    Tonight – a major lesson in forgiveness….
    I’m hanging out meditating in my room, crying and snotting and releasing eons of gunk and..
    RoomieJ comes knocking on my door
    BeLoved! OMG! You have to move your car RIGHT NOW there is water flooding up to your DOORS!
    So I race outside, move my car (the power steering went out yesterday btw which is another story). Come back in to see RoomieJ calling RoomieN, who is out of town…J pops the lock on N’s room like nothing and we’re in…we find N’s keys and J is out the door in a flash, moving N’s car in just the nick of time. Water was actually IN her car…(J says…”we’re going to just ignore the fact I can get past that lock so easy, HA).
    She feels like a super hero, I feel like…well, aren’t I a total sh!t for not turning the burner off on the stove that she left on and ended up burning herself on and well, ok. Thank you for showing me how it’s done.

  309.  #309Beloved on May 25, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    And when I say “we” find N’s keys, I mean…J totally finds the keys. I’m just bumbling around kinda probably in the way more than anything. lol.

  310.  #310Allure on May 25, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Thank you! If I don’t listen, who will?

    I give myself permission to let go of something I am carrying with me. I do not need it anymore. It’s not serving me to hold on and make myself feel sick. I give myself permission to go forward with love.
    I am worthy of good.
    I give myself permission to exhale this toxicity i’m creating.
    I feel guided, gently and patiently through life. I can have patience too. I can breathe. I can exist within my body, and use my mind for better purposes.

    In my body I feel..
    Anticipation in my chest, shaking fingers, tingling toes. Deep breaths feel cleansing. Feels expanding and calming.
    Just relaxing here feels peaceful and fulfilling. I feel positive I can make my way back to center.

  311.  #311Millie on May 25, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    So funny thing– guy#5 who I just wrote about earlier that he seemed to have issues making plans… I stopped replying to him and then he can back with a plan! Offering to take me out on a cute date to make up for the back and forth.
    Hey! Nice! I didn’t have to do a thing!

  312.  #312Linda on May 25, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Indigo wrote….

    But then I asked him if things would ever change between us, him and me. He said he didn’t know but probably not…

    I remember my dad saying this to me all the time when I was little. Dad can we go .. or Dad can we do such and such… he most usually said “probably not”. For whatever reason I heard possibility in his responses. Over time as I grew into an teen ager, I learned that it meant probably not really meant “no”. I will never understand why he chose to communicate that way but he did.

    In the case of D, perhaps he truly does not know, but because of my personal history with that phrase, my heart sinks reading it in your post.

    Men do what they want to do. D clearly is a great example of that. You dear Indigo have learned much about your self in the presence of this man . I have great faith in your ability to choose and finding your center and great happiness.

    D just leaves me feeling “meh” . He does not seem like a guy who is “hungry” if you know what I mean.


  313.  #313Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    {{{Beloved}}} #305
    Stilll more huggs for your sorrow and
    discomfort with what is happening with your son.

    My thoughts on roomieJ…
    Balance —darling Siren…
    no one is All bad or All good…
    Hold on to YOU… don’t give her too much credit..
    she is probably good under extreem conditions – chaos- that could be why she keeps creating it…

  314.  #314Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    lovetod #266
    Ahhh… the sweet song of
    love and support!!!
    This lovely melody fills my heart
    and strengthens my resolve…
    much appreciated!!

  315.  #315Linda on May 25, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    I worked so hard in my yard the last 4 days. Cleaning gutters, trimming hedges (I hate those dern things!!) Revamping a previously ugly flower bed. My body is so overtired that I cant sleep.

    THere is still so much that needs to be done. I still have a partially built storage barn issue, my water spout in the back has to be fixed. I feel really really grumpy about all this. Even though I have gotten so much done and feel good about the progress I feel this impatience and anger. I have to spend some real time figuring out what that is about.

    There were times over the last 4 days when I felt on the verge of a melt down. Kinda like I wanted to throw a temper tantrum while struggling with a root in the ground or the getting the mounds of clippings bagged for the trash. I push myself too hard but there is only me to get this stuff done I know but….sometimes I get so triggered.

    I find myself wishing / missing having a man in my life to lean on and help me . I need to flip this around somehow.

  316.  #316Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    {{{Allure}}} #307
    I feel happy knowing
    you are feeling calm and peaceful
    here on Siren Island…
    I love reading your

    I feel more calm
    taking deep breaths
    and exhaling fear
    I LOVE my fear

  317.  #317Lovergirl on May 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    (((Indigo))) It would feel painful to me to feel sidelined at a party we planned together too, and to not get more compassion when I expressed how I felt. Its not necessarily his fault that he just isn’t capable of giving you that, but it would still feel bad. Maybe this is your breaking point. I think we all have one. It seems like you have been incredibly patient and understanding and if he is not responding in turn then maybe meeting others and circular dating would help you get your needs met.

  318.  #318Beloved on May 25, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    Ha, Azure, wise words, thank you. And thank you for the hugs….(((((Azure)))))….huggsss back atcha!
    I was thinking, well, I have actually been TERRIBLE under pressure so maybe I have something to learn from her. Something to remember about being more resourceful.

    While meditating tonight, sinking into my feelings and feeling my way through, I had this experience where “past lives” and “reincarnation” feels very real to me.
    It came to me that this thing with my DIL and son is something they’ve been working out over LIFETIMES. I felt this rush of feeling like KNOWING my son definitely wanted to be born. I felt so much guilt for bringing him into this world into such a sketchy situation and blah blah blah, and I felt this certainty…no, no, he DEFINITELY wanted to be born.

    I felt a download of a lot more understanding of the why’s and wherefores of it, that I won’t get into . I’ll say that it felt sacred. I felt my sacredness. I FEEL my sacredness. I kept a copy of an inner healing prayer from the Creative Life Center and recited it and felt it so deeply, felt it through me. I feel kind of like …was it Linda’s? ex? Crusty and unforgiving and locked in so much pain. When I really sank into it, I could feel how consumed I felt by anger. I felt like a dog chasing my tail in a vicious cycle of chasing the pain – being angry at the pain which was causing more pain.

    I felt like I was in the womb again, really, awash in a toxic cocktail of shame and unwantedness and pain. I could see so clearly how this was my karma. I chose this life, this experience, and I understood why.

    So…lots of forgiveness going on. The fact that it is flooding here and storming at historic levels does not seem entirely coincidental 🙂

  319.  #319Azure Blu on May 25, 2015 at 10:42 pm

    ohhh… my gosh!!!
    I totally skipped over the fact
    that you are in the middle of a flood disaster!!!
    Your car was almost under Water?
    It must be crazy out there?
    I’ve been watching all some of this on the news
    Be safe lovely Siren…

    It is good for me to read about the forgiveness you are giving yourself…
    I need to do that for ME also!!

  320.  #320Lovergirl on May 25, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    I spent the evening with Chicago tonight. So many things, just annoy me about him. I know I’m probably LOOKING for things to be irritated about because he is not S, but what a difference!

    By the way, still haven’t heard from S. It’s been 8 days, but I’m feeling calmer now. I feel that he needs this time for some reason. If he were sure about dumping me I think he would tell me, so obviously the wheels in his head are still turning. Who knows, maybe they will turn in my favor. It’s still a possibility and I feel the best thing here is just to trust him. I feel that S cares about me too much to just disappear forever, everything in my heart says he does.

    Anyhow, back to Chicago. When I first got to his house he again brought up my not liking violent movies. He was laughing about how his sisters kids, who are like 10 and 11 saw Mad Max and didn’t think it was violent, like he was trying to make me feel bad. I don’t know how anyone could deny it is violent, its just one brutal scene after another. He said he was sorry, that he just didn’t see what I meant by “violence” and was laughing. It didn’t feel good, or sincere, but more like he was making fun of me.

    He took me to a lovely park and wanted to walk and hold hands and be romantic. To me though, it felt suffocating. He talked about his birthday (which is in about a week) and how he wants me to plan a picnic where we drink wine and feed each other strawberries and grapes, there at the park, and I give him backrubs. Ugh. That sounds like slow torture to me, lol. Now I feel all obligated, because he asked. He even said he could give me money to buy the supplies. I really don’t feel like planning a freaking picnic.

    He was doing the thing he normally does, where he interrupts or doesn’t pay attention to almost anything I say and acts as though its unimportant. He also acts like I am a freaking idiot. He will explain things to me that anyone with half a brain already knows. It just makes me feel like a child.

    Like, he felt the need to explain to me what a Boulevard is while we were driving. Uh, I’m 38 years old, not 6. That doesn’t need an explanation. Maybe he is just trying to make conversation but it drives me nuts. He also insisted on looking up the history of the park we were at and reading it aloud to me on his phone. I honestly could care less about how this park was built by donations from some woman whose deceased husband owned a biscuit factory. He presents it as though he is giving me a “lesson” and I feel like rolling my eyes.

    Then he took me to a nice restaurant, in the same high end shopping district that S took me to for his birthday. Everywhere I turned, I was reminded of how much I miss S and how much happier I am when I am with him, how much he makes me laugh and how he pays attention to everything I say and gets my jokes. Chicago doesn’t even catch them.

    While we were at the restaurant he also told me that I need to be more forward about asking for things from him. He had asked if I was hungry and I just said “yes, kind of”, then made a comment about being starving when we were at the table. He said I need to be more direct because he almost took me out for just ice cream instead of dinner since I didn’t mention being super hungry. Again, it felt like he was asking me to be demanding, which I don’t like to do.

    Oh, and he complained about how I never call or text him. He was like why don’t you ever call or text and I said I usually just figure that if a man wants to talk to me he will get ahold of me. He didn’t like that at all and said it wasn’t normal and what if something happened to him and I didnt contact him? He asked what would happen if he just didn’t text me for days on end and I said I would figure he didn’t want to talk. We went around about that a bit, because he clearly wants me to initiate more but I don’t.

    The waiter was super hot and kind of hitting on me, winking at me, and saying we had the same favorite dish, which clearly Chicago didn’t appreciate. I tried not to flirt back, but it was hard not to at least smile a bit. He was making excuses not to leave the poor guy a very big tip too, like complaining about him not refilling our drinks fast enough, etc.

    As usual, Chicago hardly seemed to register anything I said about myself. Later, I kind of tested him by playing a little game. I was like what color are my eyes, you can’t peek (it was mostly dark). He guessed blue (I have green eyes and any guy that really likes me notices that). I was curious if he ever pays attention to anything I say, so I asked him a couple other questions, like how many brothers and sisters I have (he guessed 3- which is lame because I have told him multiple times that I have 8 brothers and sisters, plus stepsiblings and have talked about them). He didn’t even get the question of where I went to high school right, he guessed in the town where I lived with my ex husband (and I know I’ve told him that too).

    I let him ask me questions and of course I got everything right because I actually freaking LISTEN when people say something to me. It made him mad that I outdid him, but oh well! I’m annoyed that he pays no attention!!

  321.  #321Millie on May 25, 2015 at 11:16 pm

    Lovergirl, just curious, why are you dating Chicago?
    Sounds awful!

    Maybe it comes back to how he was raised and how he thinks woman feel attracted to men. I mean he is obviously flaunting his peacock feathers for you by trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Unfortunately that’s not something that impresses you. What if you told him that??

    I wonder if him making “fun” of you is his way of flirting, much like we make fun of men sometimes to flirt. I wouldn’t like it either though…. I’m wondering how much feeling messages and how much of your thoughts you actually share with him?? Not facts, but what’s in your head. There seems to be such a disconnect… And the part about him telling you he almost took you out for ice cream…. To me is him BEGGING you to tell him what you want and how he can make you happy.

    Or do you think you’ve shared enough of your feelings with him and this is him ignoring you and not honoring your feelings??

    What do you think?

  322.  #322Millie on May 26, 2015 at 12:40 am

    Trying to go to sleep, but I can’t.
    It’s been six weeks now.
    And I’m having a new feeling–one that is probably fleeting.
    That I have nothing to be sorry for.
    That I don’t have to apologize for anything.
    I don’t have to feel bad for leaning forward. I don’t have to feel bad for having felt bad!
    People’s state of mind isn’t constant. We feel good about ourselves, we feel bad about ourselves, we are confident at times, and insecure at times, we desire more space sometimes and we desire more closeness at other times. It is never constant. Should it be??
    Is the key to being in a strong and healthy functioning relationship that we are constant?
    Maybe the key is that we have the tools to ground ourselves when we feel out of control, and we don’t need to look to another person to ground us. But if we do look to that other person–
    It stings. It hurts.
    But I keep thinking about people who get married, and years down the road realize they aren’t married to the right person. Would I trade this for that?
    Would I trade only three months of bliss with this person for three years if it ended in the same result?
    I am trying so hard to accept reality. Like a difficult pill to swallow without water.
    I have to do this because I will be so much stronger.
    Facing this, swallowing the painful pill, feeling every aspect of it will make me a stronger person.
    I’m just afraid of leading other men on if I still feel a tug at my heart to M.
    So I think sticking to three dates and seeing how I feel…if I want to continue is a good idea.

  323.  #323Victoria on May 26, 2015 at 12:45 am

    Your story about Chicago is so instructive.
    It shows me that
    1) Very good and decent people may nevertheless lead you on about how they feel about you because of their own reasons. You are emotionally not available to Chicago, yet you still go to him when we asks you, for reasons that are completely beyond him.
    2) People can improve communication/understanding of the situation dramatically if they would listen to their parner. I need to remember that!

  324.  #324Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 1:54 am


    Re: Chicago. I have been out with this kind of man a couple of times before – you know, the one who always has to know just as much as you, who always has to be as smart or smarter than you or he gets peevish. And from the man who had a mini-sulk because I beat him at Backgammon which he had just taught me to play, to the guy who pretended to know all the Enya songs (my favourite artist) and pretended to belong to the fan forum, even though he clearly didn’t – I cannot, for the life of me, see the point. I dropped these guys like hot potatoes.

    I don’t wish to have a partner who is my rival or competitor. Anyone who cannot appreciate and support me for my own sake, and who only sees himself reflected in me, is definitely not the man for me.

    As for a man who makes fun of me… he would learn the error of his ways very quickly. I would LEAVE. He may not be a bad guy but this is just not how I want to feel around a man at all.

    I don’t know how you are enduring these dates with Chicago! They sound awful.

  325.  #325Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 2:19 am

    Labbit 275 & 276,

    Thank you for your thoughtful thoughts on this. I always enjoy reading your insights.

    D is actually a middle child. I know in some ways he fits the bill of an only child, but he actually has 2 brothers, one older and one younger. His younger brother is a sweetheart and a real gentleman, and he and D are quite close. His older brother is, frankly, a bit of a d*ck and he and D don’t see eye to eye. The three of them could not be more different from each other. D is a bit of a walking contradiction, because while he is quite self-involved, he also has a strong sense of family and obligation to family, and is always encouraging me to make stronger bonds with my own. He actually has a wonderful family. I agree I think a sister in the mix would have helped a lot. I think what it is is that D’s world is very male. He has two brothers, a posse of close male friends, he’s in a very male profession, even his two cats are boys! I just really think he’s not very familiar with the female perspective. He tries though, he honestly does.

    A lot of the rest of what you said holds true. I was chatting with Dominique last night and I did have a lot of anxiety/fear. It was bubbling up to the surface, and I really think it was my own dark and anxious feelings which bothered me the most, and caused me to re-examine my own life.

    I like what you said about chatting up the hottest guy there! Definitely something for me to try in future!

    It was funny (and a relief) that D was back to his puppy dog self the next day. It did help to calm me down somewhat. Last night in fact he crept in next to me after I had gone to bed and snuggled up next to me and apologised for being snappish the last couple of days.

  326.  #326Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Also Labbit, I’m glad my situation gave you an opportunity to look at where you’ve been making Tender too much the focus of your life, and “holding” time open for him and maybe neglecting other things. I’ve definitely been doing that. Big mistake!

    I’ve signed up again to receive notifications of events from a social club that I really enjoyed in the past and had stopped going to, and also I’m going to start going to my art gallery events again. Yay!

  327.  #327Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 2:56 am

    Azure Blu 283 – Thank you for your sweet and loving words. I absolutely do take them in the kind spirit in which they were meant. D has been mostly upfront with me about what he wants – there is very little of pretence or illusion in our relationship. He has been honest with me, and I have been honest with him. Neither of us have felt compelled to leave because for the most part we are happy and we let each other be.

    That said, I HAVE been neglecting myself, neglecting myself outside of him and allowing myself to go down into a bit of a dark and lonely place. So starting now I’m going to be putting a lot more effort into that – getting myself some friends, and other things to feel happy and excited about.

    Thank you for your care xx

  328.  #328Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 3:05 am

    Dixie 290,

    Thank you for your warm and kind words, and the love and support. Thank you for the suggestion to lead with my emotions on this one – that is what my heart confirms.

    I guess I’m just holding all of this information in my heart right now. D’s behaviour is unusual because despite how nonchalant he might act, he adores me and I can honestly say HE would never leave me. He doesn’t want to be with anyone else. As to whether what he offers is enough for me? I don’t know.


  329.  #329Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 3:07 am

    Lovergirl 314,

    Thank you so much for the hugs.

  330.  #330Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 3:17 am

    Linda 309,

    No, D is definitely not “hungry”! He definitely does not wear his heart on his sleeve. If you met him you’d probably get a nonchalant, somewhat indifferent vibe – he’s very reserved, he’ll only tell me how he feels once in a blue moon. It’s who he is. It most likely WOULD leave you feeling “meh” if you met him.

    Truth is, there’s a lot more to him than meets the eye, but yes, of course he does what he wants, and I’m very honest with myself about what he is and what he is not. I think I just want to follow my heart for now.

    Not to blow my own trumpet or anything, but I’ve had a few guys in life who were head over heels besotted me. They would have committed to me, lived with me. They were “hungry”. I had one guy who wanted us to move in together after 3 dates. All of this leaves me cold.

    I know there’s a middle ground, and perhaps I need to find it. For now, I’m happy with my decision to devote more time to my own life and to meeting new people.

  331.  #331April Rose on May 26, 2015 at 3:44 am


    Great to read you’re feeling goddessy, and didn’t let this man deceive you.

    Carry on flirting by all means.
    However, I feel a response in my intuitive gut, a huge red flag, when reading about this coffee shop man.
    Let him flatter you, but please take everything he says as BS!!! I don’t think you will ever hear his ‘true story’.

    Definitely NOT one to consider as relationship material. He strikes me as a player who would only cause you hurt.

  332.  #332Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 4:01 am

    Oh Victoria! About living together – for me it’s purely a convenience thing. D has a beautiful big house whereas I have a tiny apartment, so that’s where we spend most of our time. I get sick of packing and unpacking an overnight bag (although I have now left a toothbrush, make up bag and various other toiletries at his house which makes my life a little easier), taking my cat to and fro from his house to my house. Also, to be paying full payment for my place when I spend half the time at his… I don’t know, it’s more of a convenience, comfort thing. I don’t like my life constantly between two places and uprooting myself and the uncertainty of where my things are. I’m not a clingy person so I wouldn’t do it for that reason (although I fully respect and support people who want to live together to always be together), D and I don’t even sleep in the same bed most of the time. Anyway, so those are my reasons!

  333.  #333Kim on May 26, 2015 at 5:47 am

    329 Indigo, yes, the packing of overnight bags also drove me mad….I couldn’t do that forever. And I never even left anything at his house because I don’t have everything double…and the expense. So nice not to have to shoulder all the bills alone, and to have someone to help when something needs fixing, to have someone right there…..I always think we are social animals deep down. On the whole, I am happier having someone around even though we are only in a small space.

  334.  #334Indigo on May 26, 2015 at 6:08 am

    Kim, yes! The packing and unpacking of bags drives me totally nuts. In the end I got fed up so I bought a spare toothbrush, contact lens solution, soaps etc. with his wallet the next time I was doing shopping for us. He doesn’t mind that kind of stuff. I am hoping to get to the stage where I can leave a few changes of clothes there too because sometimes I haven’t packed and he asks me all affectionately if I’m going to stay over (and of course I’d like to).

    I agree we are social animals, though there are definitely only certain people I could happily live with 🙂

  335.  #335Victoria on May 26, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Indigo, Kim,
    I was away for 3 days. He was very good at keeping contact this time, but he has a 12 hour shift at work today so I don’t know if I will see him today. We talked on the phone a few times, and he has not offered to see each other, I know he would be very tired and it would be inconvenient for both of us logistically, but I would love to see him. Nevertheless, I am making no suggestions, I am letting him decide. I have a good plan B for what to do tonight.
    Is this any improvement for my situation? Not really, except that I have a good plan B. I wish I did not have to have that. Urrrrrgh, no expectations. Very difficult.

  336.  #336Azure Blu on May 26, 2015 at 7:47 am

    I Soooo much agree with April Rose…
    And YOU should be VERY proud of yourself
    for asking All those Important questions
    (made me realize how few of those I
    actullay asked Spirit)
    AND you walked AWAY!!!

    I’d RUN fast in the opposite direction…
    and NEVER contact him again…
    Your first clue…
    He continued to give false and untrue
    He thinks he sees “Naive & Clueless”
    on your forehead…
    Show him YOU are a “Black Belt” Siren
    and you can SMELL a RAT
    a mile away!!!

  337.  #337Lovergirl on May 26, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Millie 320-

    I am still seeing Chicago, mostly to try and get my mind off of S. It’s just a distraction, really. The original intent was to try and practice my feeling messages, which I admittedly seem to be failing at. I will here and there, but I have a hard time, especially since he doesn’t really seem to listen, or ends up making fun of me for it.

    The other thing, that I guess is keeping me around is, guilt. He keeps buying me stuff and spending money on me and then I feel kind of bad for not being that into him. Like he flew me to Chicago and bought me a shawl and gave me brand new printer for my computer and is offering to pay for a lawn mower for my son. He takes me out a lot and it IS fun to get to go out more, well kind of, not as fun with him. :p

    I may be more irritated than most about his flaunting his “knowledge” about things because it reminds me of my ex husband. My ex husband was such a know it all, mostly about the Bible (though really I could take a lot of credit for helping him get his Masters in Theology) and politics. That’s really ALL he ever wanted to talk about and was always lecturing me on those subjects. He never wanted to listen to me or about anything I might be interested in, and thought my degree (Psychology) was just a bunch of secular nonsense.

    Nowadays I HATE talking about either of those subjects, and of course last night Chicago wanted to talk about scriptures too. Sometimes guys hear that my ex was in ministry and assume that I am religious, but I have deliberately gotten far away from that. He actually said he wanted to talk about it because he felt it was something “different” than most people talk about on dates and I just cringed inside because I spent 15 years listening to my ex talk about scriptures.

    Thinking back, I should have said something. I should have said, I don’t feel like talking about the Bible. I don’t enjoy talking about it at all. I guess I just didn’t want to be offensive.

    I really, really need to work on saying feeling messages, but I tend to just clam up. I worry way too much about hurting his feelings or being offensive or rude. I guess I’m also afraid of being mocked, like I was about the movie. I think his intent was mostly to make it out like I was overreacting, so that he wouldn’t be the “bad guy”. To me though, it feels like my feelings are being trivialized.

    The more I think about it, the more I realize how much Chicago seems like my ex in other ways. I spent years and years feeling like my ideas and thoughts and dreams were unimportant and secondary, so it brings up a lot of bad memories.

    Chicago does seem, in some ways, to want to make me happy. Like he will want me to pick a restaurant or place to go, but I don’t enjoy making those kinds of decisions. I end up deferring it back to him because I really can’t think of anyplace. I like to go to new places and am not as familiar with what’s out there.

  338.  #338Lovergirl on May 26, 2015 at 10:00 am

    Victoria (322)-

    True. Perhaps I am being kind of a bad person by leading Chicago on though. He seems to like me way more than I like him…well, in some ways. If he genuinely liked me, wouldn’t he hear what I have to say and remember details about me? It seems more like he wants a fan club (narcissism?).

  339.  #339Lovergirl on May 26, 2015 at 10:08 am

    Indigo 323-

    I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the “rival” comment. Yes, that is what it feels like. Like anything I might know that he doesn’t is an immediate threat.

    He’s very weird about me telling him about work I have been offered or am doing. It’s like he immediately shoots it down and says something negative. Like I say I sold something and he says I should have sold it for more or done it somehow differently. I said a guy I used to do work for offered me an opportunity to work an upcoming seminar and he starts railing about how I need to make sure he is paying me enough (I hadn’t even discussed how much I was going to get paid yet).

    I do kind of feel like I am enduring dates with Chicago. Not really sure how to end things with him but I am going to have to do it eventually.

  340.  #340Lovergirl on May 26, 2015 at 10:11 am

    I still haven’t heard from S. Tonight would be NINE days! :/ People are advising me to call HIM and ask what’s up. I’ve been holding back from doing that, though maybe that is a mistake? What do the sirens think?

  341.  #341Azure Blu on May 26, 2015 at 11:07 am

    YOUR Doing Sirentastic!!!
    giving yourself much love,
    listening to YOUR feelings
    practicing feeling messages with Chicago
    And observing how you react to Him…

    IMHO… let HIM contact you…
    You have much more leverage if HE comes to YOU…
    in the mean time…
    You will then have much more love for yourself
    Have filled your life with things/people YOU love
    and you’ll be able to come from a place of
    Strong on the inside and soft on the outside!!

    This is what I’ve learned from both contacting first
    AND letting them contact ME…

    I’d try and have your Script ready for when HE does…

    I know… easier said than done… :-))

  342.  #342Millie on May 26, 2015 at 12:59 pm


    It would be an interesting experiment to tell him exactly what you thought and felt, since you have no fear of losing him.

    Yes!!! Listen to Azure! Wait him out!
    Oh it’s so hard. I think about contacting M every day. Every day. Ughhhhhh

  343.  #343Millie on May 26, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    I meant interesting to tell Chicago what you felt.

  344.  #344Labbit on May 26, 2015 at 1:44 pm


    Call him and ask him what’s up about what exactly? I’m sure your friends are all well-meaning, but if you reach out to him now you’re basically telling him…
    – you don’t trust him (because you couldn’t wait for him to get back to you on his own time or don’t have enough to fulfill you in your own life)
    – you can do a better job than him managing the relationship (so he can sit back and do nothing, ewww)
    – you’re desperate (and we know you’re not, right?)
    – you’re going to ‘jump’ every time he backs off (sounds tiring just thinking about it)

    A relationship shouldn’t be power struggles or games. You have to trust him that if something is going on he will tell you…and more importantly you need to trust YOURSELF that you can take good care of yourself, which includes not chasing after a man who is backing away from you.

    It’s not like S got kidnapped, or suddenly lost your number, or is somehow incapable of reaching out to you right now. He just doesn’t want to…there could be any number of reasons why but the simplest answer is usually right. So I’d guess for now he’s busy and there’s nothing you can do to shake him out of that. In fact contacting him may make you feel better in the very short term, i.e. hearing his voice and him telling you everything’s fine, but I can almost guarantee that you’re going to be TWICE as nervous and upset afterwards when he doesn’t increase communication with you. He’ll never meet the standard of fear from that scary internal voice we all have inside. Contacting him may push him further away.

    I would encourage you to read these two articles:!What-do-I-do-when-my-Boyfriend-is-being-Hot-and-Cold-with-me-/c1hg8/B599EF4A-B696-4B15-84DC-762598F8A4B4!3-Things-You-don´t-want-to-do-when-your-Man-is-Withdrawing/c1hg8/54cf88c20cf2f9ae40008a9e

    And I’d also say to bounce back on those friends telling you to reach out to him, if they weren’t contacting a girl, how would they feel if she called? Or reached out to him? If they didn’t want to talk to her, would they feel good if she chased him?

    Probably not.

    It’s not holding back from contacting him. It’s CHOOSING not to because you want to be pursued. You don’t want to be the pursuer. If you call him, you’ll flop positions, and if S is a masculine man (and he certainly seems to be) that won’t feel good to you OR him. It will only push him further away.

    Concentrate on treating yourself as well as you’d treat S right now. Find ways to make YOU happy, and to release this tension you’re feeling. If he’s going to come back, that magnetic attraction of you feeling GREAT is the fastest and easiest way to do it.

  345.  #345Waterfall on May 26, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Sirens! Please help…

    I am still getting ANGRY with D. In fact my anger holds no bounds

    Yesterday I was travelling for a short break
    and he kept phoning and phoning me, emailing and voice messages etc begging me to let him know I was alright. I finally gave in a begrudgingly said I was fine.

    When I arrived I felt okay but later on in the night I was really struggling. I woke up pining for him and feeling unbelievably lonesome. I do this a lot at night!

    Again I started emailing him and getting angry at him for leading me on. I kept asking him why he begged me to be there for him and wait for him if be didn’t ‘do’ relationships…

    Anyway I let rip. I feel so scared at how I am acting. I feel out lc control. In the morning he emailed me and phoned me. I ignored the call and cancelled it before he could leave a message.

    He emailed me to say he was sorry. He did not want to hurt me andf if made me feel better he would come and visit me. This made me more mad!!!

    I dunno….. I feel so confused at the moment…

    I feel I am headed to the looney bin.

    How did I get involved with this guy?! Why am I pining for him?! He’s a tight arse, unreliable, loud, cocky, arrogant…. What is going on with me?!

    When I am with him he drives me up the wall!!!


    One minute I am okay, the next I am mega depressed…

    I do think he has gone for a reason but yet I am pining so bad it hurts….

  346.  #346Femininewoman on May 26, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Waterfall are you addicted to drama?

    What other areas in life provide you with an adrenaline rush?

  347.  #347Femininewoman on May 26, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    For those of you who know I have a problematic hip. I will be doing surgery in two weeks. I did the pre-op testing and preparation today at the hospital and was really feeling taken care of by everyone I ran into. They were so helpful and accommodating. One doctor got a wheel chair, waited for me and took me over to a class I was supposed to attend. I am hoping the attention and love I received today from the world around me was a real reflection of what has changed and is happening inside me.

  348.  #348Waterfall on May 26, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    FW I don’t know if I am addicted to drama but yes I could well be and it is terrifying. It is like I hunt out the most inappropriate man and cling to him.

    Yikes, I can’t stop myself.

    I feel I have no willpower whatsoever and I’m like a child in lots of my attitudes…

  349.  #349nyx on May 26, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    @ Tereana

    Aww, isn’t that cute? He will make you your coffee exactly as you like it in the mornings to make up for… him being married to someone else and staying married to her? XD
    You were absolutely AWESOME walking out, thank you for sharing- I will learn from you.


    You are not being fair to yourself in this. If it was a friend of yours who was in your situation, I am sure you would be understanding and encouraging to her… it is not easy, but please try to treat yourself as kindly as you would treat a friend 🙂


    Wish you all luck with your surgery- you seem to be so stable and calm that I am absolutely convinced you will heal well and quickly, your mind supporting your body in this.

  350.  #350Azure Blu on May 26, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Feminine W…
    Ohhh… how nice to see the mirror
    of us…
    in the actions and faces of others…

    Prayers for you,lovely Siren… for strength
    and stamina and quick healing!!

  351.  #351April Rose on May 26, 2015 at 2:54 pm


    Are you like me inthat you let your inner frightened girl run your relationships?

    I was doing so well until recently – sitting with my inner girl and calming her, talking to her from my adult siren self.

    I guess I neglected to do that at some point, because there she was taking over my body and causing all kinds of drama with the man I was seeing. He called it a ‘tantrum’.

    I feel ashamed that this has happened.

    I also want to keep working on it, so that I can keep my frightened self soothed. So that she doesn’t pop up again suddenly and be the one trying to be in the relationship.

    Reminds me of how I interacted with my Dad during my teenage years.
    I don’t think I fully made the transition into relating to him from my adult self. He died when I was still a teenager.
    My inner girl is still raging with grief about that.

  352.  #352Azure Blu on May 26, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    {{{{April Rose}}}}
    I feel sad that your Dad died when you were a teen…
    a most vulnerable of times…
    How good you can see how she is still grieving…
    and that you are giving HER much love and

    Maybe the teenage me is stuck also
    in the relationship with my Dad
    where he would leave for weeks and months
    and then reappear with NO explanation…
    mmmm… like Spirit…
    Like my ex – Brad –
    I will give her LOTS O’ LOVE and Attention
    as she is feeling abandoned AGAIN
    and unlovable…
    Sweet, adorable Azure,
    I will NEVER abandon you…
    I bring you close… wrap my arms around you
    and cover you with MUCH LOVE…

  353.  #353Sassy on May 26, 2015 at 3:14 pm


    With respect to your feelings and guilt about your son and his father and how you raised him, I am right there with you as I suffer greatly about my daughters upbringing. Fortunately they are both fantastic women and mothers.

    But what I really want to express to you is that absolutely EVERY SINGLE THING that you have gone through, suffered through and experienced in your life has brought you to be the absolutely lovely, strong, beautiful soul and woman that you are today. I have watched your story since you started posting and I am truly impressed with your growth.

    Your children and grandchild/Ren are and will continue to feel the honest true raw love that you have for them.

    And that’s all I have to say about that!
    Love to you, keep moving forward.

  354.  #354Sassy on May 26, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Ah Azure, how I identify with you and the feeling of abandonment. My dad traveled a lot and we moved a lot while his career grew. No chance for me to make long term, close friendships.

    So I seemed to try to “cling” to people, male and female. Although I recognize that now so I back away. Just can’t seem to get it right!

    I feel for you and your distress over Spirit.

    I am in a very precarious position with my guy. We have spent quite a bit of time together lately and have had some very intense discussions about life in general.
    I so want to ask him how he feels about me now. I feel terrified and wishy washy about us because I’m so scared he will hurt me again.

    I guess patience needs to be the order of the day…..

  355.  #355Sassy on May 26, 2015 at 3:29 pm


    Best wishes for strong, guided hands of your surgeons, gentleness and care from your caregivers and quick healing to you afterward.

    Keep us posted how surgery goes and how you feel.

    Love, light and prayers

  356.  #356April Rose on May 26, 2015 at 3:47 pm


    So very sorry to hear that you have felt hurt by your man.
    Are the two of you repairing things?
    Did you receive Rori’s e-mail about trust? She says the number one thing is to choose to trust that you will do right by YOU.
    Hugs to you.

  357.  #357Sassy on May 26, 2015 at 3:54 pm


    It feels good to see you pop back in!

    Tell us how you’re doing.

    I’ve missed you!

  358.  #358Sassy on May 26, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    April Rose,

    Thank you sweet sweet siren friend.

    Honestly I don’t really know what we are doing. When I read that line about trust, it struck me that I trust that deep down inside he does love me. I’m choosing to just take things one moment, one breath at a time.

    What I DO KNOW, is that I feel absolutely wonderful when I’m with him. I feel calm these days when I’m not with him and it takes “forever” (so it seems), to hear from him. I do know his patterns by now, so I don’t blow up his phone and panic.

    I recognize that my top two love languages are Quality Time and Physical Touch and that they can’t always be attended to.

  359.  #359Labbit on May 26, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    344 — FW I hope your surgery goes well! Wishing you an effortless procedure and speedy recovery. 🙂

  360.  #360Zia on May 26, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    341 – Labbit – LOVE IT

  361.  #361Azure Blu on May 26, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    {{{{Sassy}}} #351
    seems when things get intense
    we all need a little space…
    I have found if I am with a man who takes more
    than his fair share of space…
    I never get a chance to feel MY
    need for space?
    But when I am with a man who is
    rowing the boat most of the time…
    I get to feel it when I need space

  362.  #362Tereana on May 26, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Thanks, April Rose! And Nyx, so funny 😉 Seriously.

    I talked to him today. I called him back, because I had one thing to say. I talked about how, even though he said his “family” (that is, his brother) is in the US, his wife is still legally his family, and his daughter is biologically his family. So why is he here, and they are there? If he is married, then some part of him is still in that relationship, no matter what he says about it.

    he proceeded to tell me that he has “made his decision” already, as evidenced by the fact that he is in America. He said that the marriage is just a “piece of paper” that doesn’t matter. I told him to call me once the divorce is finalized and see if I am free, because I am not going to date a man who is married to someone else.

    he then said that what he wanted (“needed”) was someone (me) to be “by his side,” supporting him (through the divorce, was the implication). That’s all well and good. But what he was asking me was something I was not comfortable doing, and it’s a line I’m not going to cross.

    He was upset. He said he thought I was telling him he is a “bad person.” That isn’t what I was telling him. Though I suppose if he feels that way, it’s because he knows, in his heart, that what he is doing is wrong.

    So yeah. I walked away. Millions of red flags waving in the wind.

    It wasn’t even just this. This is the biggest thing. It was the little ways in which he did not listen to me when I said something or asked a question. The way he answered questions by talking in circles. Or when he would ask me a question, I would give him an answer. And then he would proceed to ask a follow up question that indicated he had not heard my answer at all, because I’d already told him what he wanted to know. It was maddening. I put up with it temporarily. But yes, April Rose, you are right. I trust your gut feeling as well as my knowledge and intuition. This situation isn’t right for me. But perhaps I was here to play a role in reminding him of what he really has in his life, perhaps make him think of what he needs to do. Meanwhile, I get to decide about what I really want in my life.


  363.  #363Tereana on May 26, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    Waterfall, 342 ((((Hugs, hugs, hugs))))

    This sounds so hard on you, emotionally. : ( But you deserve better. And by “better” I don’t mean D, per se. I just mean that you deserve to be able to relax in a relationship. We all do. But this one sounds – if you’ll forgive me for saying it – codependent. Because it’s not just you. D seems to be feeding into it, because of his own “stuff.” You just need to know that his “stuff” is not your stuff. But your stuff might be a lot for you to deal with right now, and you’d be fine to take some time to attend to YOU, so that you feel less piney in the end.

    I know that when I’m “pining” for someone, it’s because of a certain hole in my heartspace that they can’t actually fill. I am either expecting or wanting them to fill it, but they can’t, and they never can. So it’s not helpful, even though it feels like it is in the moment.

    Anyway, I’ve suggested this on the blog before, and I’ll say it here again, because it might be something that could be useful to you, if you’re willing. And I only did this a few years ago, because someone suggested it to me, and I actually took the leap and got into it and found it helpful. First I had to realize that this was an issue I was having. But I was glad the person suggested it. I really enjoyed going to meetings for Codependents Anonymous (CoDA for short). Yes, it’s a 12 step program. But I liked the all women’s meeting I found. It was kind of like a siren support group. And it was really cool and empowering to be in a room filled with women who could have looked like they had all their sh*t together, but inside, they did not, and they were muddying about and having messy, unsatisfying relationships, just like I was.

    I’m not saying this like I’m perfectly healed and I’ve got it all worked out. But if you are feeling THIS bad, some in-person support might be something you could try. If this resonates with you at all. And you might be surprised : )

  364.  #364Millie on May 26, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    Femininewoman– best wishes for your surgery!!! I hope you are well taken care of! Sounds like you are in good hands!!

  365.  #365Millie on May 26, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    Labbit 341— loved reading this. Thank you.
    I guess the same applies to me, except he’s actually gone and not just withdrawing…. And there is nothing I can do/say/ask/ tell about it.

  366.  #366Femininewoman on May 26, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Thank you all very much ladies

  367.  #367Waterfall on May 26, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    April Rose

    I just wanted to reach out to you, because what you have written has hit a raw, raw nerve me.

    I woke up this morning with a feeling of dread.

    When I was a teenager my father passed away too. He died suddenly of cancer and it was an horrendous experience for me. One that I’ve buried deep.

    But at that time my boyfriend left me. I was truly devastated. I woke up this morning and ALL of those painful feelings resurfaced. I feel in emotional agony….

    Its like I am back there…

  368.  #368Waterfall on May 26, 2015 at 11:17 pm


    I have just had the BIGGEST realisation

    I am putting so much pressure on myself to have a relationship

    I felt I could with D because I was attracted to him physically, and that IS possibly the ONLY reason…

    Wow Waterfall where does this pressure come from?

    All I can think is my mum. She is so worried about me and emotionally controlling all of the time.

    In fact I can imagine her now if I confided in her about me and D splitting up she would make me feel worse, and like a failure..

    Oh what a realisation…. All this pressure I have felt from her…

    She feels so sorry for me all the time, and blames me for being single…

    Ahhhh…. It’s all toxic. I am just manifesting all of her stuff.

    Sorry for my ramblings…

  369.  #369Zia on May 26, 2015 at 11:26 pm

    Just over one year on and I’m still learning and coming up against things, even though I’m nothing like how I was before.

    What I still struggle with:

    1. Wanting to know RIGHT AWAY what it is that is bothering my partner when I notice something is off. And I can usually notice straight away. Some of the comments in this post particularly has helped me – reminding me about TRUST. I trust myself at the moment (a lot of the times I can now just walk away and give myself some space instead of hounding him) but also trusting him that a) if it is about me, he will tell me when he is ready; and b) if it is not about me, then he will tell me if he wants to.

    2. I struggle with the notion of being warm and inviting sometimes when he “comes back”… although these days he’s not physically far, but when I sense that he is off, or I get a feeling of moodiness, I find myself slipping into a grump or getting moody and snappy myself. And I find it difficult to get to that warm, safe and inviting place – especially if he hasn’t actually told me what was bothering him in the first place and goes back to just being normal again – I find myself sometimes still stuck behind in grumpy-land. This is something I am working on and in extreme circumstances it does require me going for a walk or having a time out for myself or doing something nice for myself to let it go.

    But at least I do this more often than not – I still have moments where I want to slap him and hound him about what is wrong, especially when what I perceive as a mood impacts on the way he would normally treat me (ie instead of being warm and considerate of me, he walks off and doesn’t even look back to see where I am, which makes me feel unimportant and triggers a sulk). This morning I wanted to just go off and walk on my own and send a message saying “I am feeling grumpy and am going to walk by myself” but I didn’t…. but because I didn’t, I ended up broodier and moodier being near him. Next time I am just going to do that. If I just say “I feel x so I’m going to do y” it isn’t accusatory, there’s no blame, it’s simply me feeling a particular way and doing what I feel is best for me at that moment in time.

  370.  #370Victoria on May 27, 2015 at 12:09 am

    @ Waterfall 365
    Waterfall, I wonder what age are you. My mom also used to exercise a lot of pressure on my dating life. Not in a direct way (telling me what to do) but just in a subtle way, with her feedback when I would share things with her.
    I stayed in a bad relationship for 5 years when I was very young, because of her. Because she liked the boy (he fit her bill for a good husband) and she wanted me to have a good husband and did not realize how limiting her beliefs were for me and for the choices that were open to me. I used to blame her for a long time, now I see she was well meaning but simpy could not put herself in my shoes, she was limited by her beliefs, experience and generation.
    Your mom most likely just wants to see you happy. If she sees that you are, she would not worry about the choices you are making. Just my two cents.

  371.  #371Victoria on May 27, 2015 at 12:20 am

    On the subject of trust, I am very happy with myself right now.
    As a follow up on my post (332 I think), at the end of the day, he asked to see me. He actually made a great effort, and inconvenienced himself dramatically in order to spend the evening with me. He said he could not bear to spend another minute without me because he has not seen me for 3 days, and talking on the phone is all very good but he was dying to hold me in his arms.
    I am happy like the cat that has eaten the cream. I was all smiles inside (and probably also outside) when he said those things.
    I am so happy that I did not ask him to see me, I was open to seeing him, but also had a very good plan B, and in fact would not have been terribly disappointed if I did not see him. I guess he caught the vibe, and was magnetized by it.
    What I am learning is that my absense draws him in. My REAL lean back, when I am busy with my own life draws him in. Me being too available, stopping my lfe for him, making demands that he prioritized spending time with me, these things push him away. I see it so clearly now, it is scary I have been blind to this dynamic for more than 3 years.
    Thank you, Rori and all, for this realization.

  372.  #372Millie on May 27, 2015 at 12:29 am

    I’m having a huge meltdown right now…tears streaming uncontrollably down my face. I just feel so many different things…angry at myself for not behaving correctly when he started withdrawing, I’m angry at myself for losing him. I’m in love with him, and he felt so right. How can someone feel so right and be wrong?! How can my own mother think he is right for me and be wrong? I miss him every single day. And I’m trying SO hard. To do what I need to do, to be a siren, not to pine, to move forward, but tonight meeting a new guy was so painful. I kept wishing it was M. I wanted M to walk in and scoop me up and say “I’m back and I’m never leaving you again.” I didn’t want to talk to this guy who was triggering me, making me feel bad, yet looking into my eyes and scooting too close and I kept trying to scoot away. I made it obvious I was heartbroken over something. And I am. I’m in no position to be open or start anything, because I don’t feel like what I started with M is finished. It doesn’t feel finished. And in my f-ing gut..however wrong or right that maybe, however f-ing dramatic this post is—this is not right. Other men I’ve had in the past that have ended things, it sucks and I’ve been upset, but I knew deep down that it wasn’t right, even if I never admitted it, but this…it just doesn’t feel that way. How can something so right be wrong? How can the switch just flip and never come back around? How can someone fall in love with you and then leave?I know I should “forget” and “move on” and I’m trying really hard, and I feel crazy for holding on to this…..I feel crazy for wanting someone who just walked away so cavalierly. And in my fantasy, he is sad to, he is hurt, he wants a way back, but doesn’t know how to find it…and I wish I could show him. I wish I could call and he would answer. I wish he wanted to see me. But he doesn’t and I haven’t tried and I’m scared to and I know I’d be upset if I did. I know after 6 weeks I should be not caring…but that’s just not how it is. It feels like my person is gone and no one can replace him right now. I can try, I can go out with other guys and be in the moment, but no one is going to take his place right now. There’s no way my guard can be that down. And I’m too sensitive. I feel like push the right buttons and my heartbreak is just going to come out. The gate. The gate needs to be stronger. ughhhhhhhhhhh I have to take my online profile down, I can’t handle all of this….

  373.  #373Zia on May 27, 2015 at 12:35 am

    I think I need to make a new “self care” list, of things that I can do when he is around and in my home or with me, to help me get back into sireny feminine mode.

  374.  #374Zia on May 27, 2015 at 12:41 am

    Another thing that you ladies might find interesting – we were chatting over the weekend about when we were first dating. And I was talking about how I had a huge fear of abandonment and had to work through that on my own, and how hard it was for me when I wouldn’t hear from him for a day or so, because of how in the past I would start thinking “OH NO ITS OVER HE’S LEAVING”, and how each time I just did my own thing and he came back, I felt safer and safer and more secure and confident. And how I had to deal with those feelings and anxieties for myself.

    Well he told me that when we were first dating, he would deliberately hold back on calling/messaging me because he didn’t want to appear to needy or clingy! And how someone once told him years and years ago not to be too forward or needy with a girl because it would turn them off, and that stuck with him ever since.

    And I said to him you know…… that is interesting, because I DO like lots of attention and reassurance, however when we first got together what I NEEDED was that bit of space and time without a response, not because its what I wanted or I would feel he was too clingy, but rather because it became the perfect opportunity for me to heal and take care of me, and be confident in myself and trust that I’ll be ok. So we both came into each others lives at the right time.

  375.  #375Zia on May 27, 2015 at 12:44 am

    Victoria #367 – I had similar. My mother had good intentions, but would say things like “I just want you to find a good man to take care of you!” and as I got older I had to gently help her change her view on that – because I know a lot of that was well meaning but started to drill an idea into my head that I needed to find a ‘good man to take care of me’ when in fact I never did.

  376.  #376Indigo on May 27, 2015 at 1:26 am


    There is a lot of “should”ing of yourself in that post. Where is the rulebook that says you “should” be over it by now? That you “should” not miss him? That you “should” forget him and move on? If other people are telling you this, even us, ignore it. They are not you. Your feelings are yours and they are real, and they want to be acknowledged and loved, not shushed into a dark corner because they are “wrong”. Please, please be gentler and more patient with yourself.

    I see you driving yourself, and I know because I do that to myself, instead of being patient and giving the feelings room. Sink into them, have a hot bath, make a cup of hot chocolate. Just do things your own way and in your own time.

    Sending you love x

  377.  #377Tereana on May 27, 2015 at 2:02 am


    I agree with Indigo. Even circular dating doesn’t mean that you “have” to date men if you don’t feel up to it. But sinking into your feelings, opening the floodgates, and letting it all pour out of you in whatever way, feeling the “soup” – that is sireny stuff. That helps us move forward. Not just to “move on” and “get over it,” but to move through and feel what that is, no matter what. It can feel however it feels to you.


  378.  #378Tereana on May 27, 2015 at 2:03 am

    Oh, there it is. Post #300. Maybe it was in moderation before…

  379.  #379Waterfall on May 27, 2015 at 2:23 am


    Reading your post, I hope I didn’t trigger you with my stuff
    I’m sorry if I have, I didn’t realise how potent all this stuff was…

  380.  #380Tereana on May 27, 2015 at 2:26 am

    Ladies, my decision is literally keepmg me up at night. Or at least up early in the morning. But at least I’m not up thinking about some guy (which is sometimes the case).

    Here is the thing: I was so sure about going to school. Fashion: it makes so much sense for me. I chose this program for specific reasons that are also in alignment with who I perceive myself to be. All of these things made me feel SO SURE about going. And I even got financial aid from them. But I still have to come up with the rest. I have to be as to support myself without overwhelming my system. I did not succeed in raising that money.

    Then I told my office at work. They are willing to pay me more to stay. They’ll give me a raise. I’ll be making more than anyone else at my level in my office. That’s how valuable they find me to be to them. But I have two coworkers who make me miserable. Will more money make up for that?

    They want me to make a carreer of it. Do I want that carreer? Even five years from now, I’ll be 40. Do I want to wake up then and be the office manager and wish I had taken this leap and just TRUSTED that sonehow the Universe would catch me? Is that my problem – that not trusting this step forward toward what I want?

    I did think about V a little bit this morning. I was thinking about something that bothered me, which is that he seemed really connected to what he “had” to do, and would do those things with enthusiasm. But, for example, when it came to me, he was not as connected with what he “wanted” to do. He “wanted” to call me more. But he didn’t. He said he “wanted” to marry me, but he never asked. Instead, he chose his obligations. He “has” to work, so he did that. He has to take care of his parents. So he chose to stay. If I was something he wanted – if a relationship with me, having a family, moving to America were all his desires, he put them away because of the things he “has” to do.

    So what about me? Sirenly, I brought this back around to me. If it bothers me that he’s not connected to what he wants, then it’s possible (and I believe its true) that I’m not connected with what I want. Aha!!! I sat up in bed.


    That was it. But then I sat there like, “well, what the heck do I want?”

    I have conflicting desires, is one issue. I have the desire for safety, comfort, security. In the absence of anyone else to take care of my basic financial needs, that responsibility falls on me. Getting a raise at work could be great for that. I have a need (desire) for fun and adventure. My workplace doesn’t provide that. School would. Artistic expression: school. Getting married and having a family? There are no guarantees either way. That could happen here. Or…if I follow this passion, I imagine that it could make me feel happier on a regular basis, and therefore more attractive, as well as a better partner and parent.


    I won’t lie. This choice would be so much easier if there was one person to foot the bill. If someone were to say: I care about you and I care about helping you get closer to your dreams. I’ll support you through this. I want that, but it’s not there.

    School I have to pay for.

    Work pays me.

    Maybe it’s sexy to be a responsible adult and make choices that “make sense,” even if they are not “what I want.”

    So there is my dilemma. High ideals versus on-the-ground reality. They are both aspects of who I am. They both have benefits. And they each represent different aspects of my desires.

    What do you, think, sirens? I’m not askimg you to make a choice for me. I’m looking for a mirror so that I can better see myself and make a decision that is right for me.

  381.  #381Indigo on May 27, 2015 at 3:09 am


    Very few people get someone coming along and saying “I care about you, I’ll foot the bill.” Even if they are married.

    I am in a similar position. If I were you, and what I am doing, is – save the extra money from your raise at work into a savings account. Save every spare penny. It might take a year or two or more, but then you’d be able to put yourself through design school. Few things in life are as simple as following our dreams. Usually there are sacrifices to be made along the way, but then I think you will appreciate it more.

  382.  #382Tereana on May 27, 2015 at 3:19 am

    Oh, but do you know who’s needs and desires I’m really in touch with?


    That’s part of what happens automatically when you grow up in a codependent home with one or two mentally ill parents. Most of the time, I’m not even aware that I’m out of touch with my own needs and feelings. I guess I usually just assume that what is another person’s is also mine – whether that’s true or not. My stuff gets swept under. Makes it very hard to make decisions based on those things…

  383.  #383Labbit on May 27, 2015 at 3:26 am

    372 Millie — Aww, Millie, I feel sad that things feel so tough for you in this moment! I have been in your shoes…I’m sure many of the Sirens here have…and it is NOT fun. Which sucks, because I prefer fun.

    I understand those feelings, of one man holding the key to your happiness, of somehow feeling like all your dreams have slipped through your fingers and forever seems so far away now. But here’s the thing: paradoxically, you are now CLOSER to your forever man than you were before you met that guy. This probably makes no sense to your brain but your heart knows it’s the truth. Sometimes our lessons come painfully so we learn them. It’s just a bump in the road and someday it will feel like NOTHING.

    It isn’t actually the man you miss, it’s the idea of everything he stood for. It’s the dream. And dating other men is probably going to continue to bring up these feelings…some of them new, but many of them quite old and buried from sadness of past relationships. Although it feels difficult everytime the feelings come up, and I can completely relate to wanting to give up, you need to TRUST in yourself that these feelings are coming up to HEAL, to LEAVE, to be replaced by happier and better feelings if you give them all room to move around inside of you.

    Dating through this is the fastest way to get over this. You are ever closer each day Siren. Don’t let any fear replace that truth. 🙂

  384.  #384Labbit on May 27, 2015 at 3:32 am

    369 Zia — I feel so glad you shared this!! Haha, really I can relate to ALL of your comments but this one especially struck a chord with me. I too struggle with this…and really not just with Tender but also my friends and people close to me. It’s very easy to feel the vibrations of someone being off, they kind of hit me like a 2×4, over and over. Especially since I have such charismatic friends. Thank you for the reminder that it isn’t my job to concern myself, get involved, or try to make it better. I have gotten a lot better about biting my tongue, but I often slip into the thought loops of “oh crap, what did I do that caused this?” When of course it’s very unlikely that another person’t moods have anything to do with me.

    Like you I also struggle when Tender’s in a mood to be warm and LIFT him up out of his moods instead of falling into them with him. I want to be moody just as you do right along with him! It’s a relief that Tender no longer goes off into his cave for DAYS the way he did when we first got back together, but when he’s in a mood he’s much like a toddler in that he stomps around and lets everyone know it, LOL. This is his catharsis though…his way of getting it out so it doesn’t pile up inside of him. I don’t need to help him…I need to remember this…

  385.  #385Labbit on May 27, 2015 at 3:36 am

    374 Zia — Mmm yes, love this! I’ve had a similar conversation with Tender and he said pretty much the same thing as your fiance. What’s funny is although my brain THINKS I would have liked more contact…my brain is so wrong. The truth is Tender and your fiance are right, when men contacted me TOO often (the amount my brain thinks I wanted) early on, I lost interest in the guy. He was too available, seemed to easy, not challenging enough. Tender struck just the right tone…letting me miss him a little bit (which of course sent my brain down into the abandonment spiral MANY times, but that’s on me) but not going so long between contact that it was inconsiderate.

    For me, the biggest way I knew that he was serious is that I didn’t even have to ask him to start calling me. He brought it up on his own one date, whether I wanted calls or texts, and then pretty quickly flipped from texting more than calling to calling more than texting as though it was his idea. Swoon!

  386.  #386Labbit on May 27, 2015 at 3:40 am

    371 Victoria — This is so lovely, I feel such a Sireny goddess vibe from you while reading this!! I feel so happy that F made plans, insisted practically on seeing you with strong intent! Yay for putting the focus back on you, I am making that shift back to me too and I feel soooooo much better.

    Also I totally agree with your 370 to Waterfall’s 365, Waterfall my parents used to put so much pressure on me to get married and have children young (like early 20s young) and at some point in my mid-20s I had to sit them down and say, listen, your pressure has already led me to get engaged to one man I wasn’t a good fit with, which do you want, misbehaving grandchildren and a MISERABLE daughter or a happy daughter and happy grandchildren? They backed off after that…kind of. I’m now just into my 30s and I can tell they want to put the pressure back on something awful, but to their credit they hold back.

  387.  #387tereana on May 27, 2015 at 4:35 am

    Now I am thinking about my desires. I am thinking about how I think about my desires.

    It looks as though I normally think of them as outward from me. As a thing I have to go and “get,” pursue, or achieve. If I don’t, then I fail at “what I desire.” (In my mind). Or, if not that, then it might be an activity I connect with. I can be good at knowing what I want To Wear, what I want To Eat, what I want To Do. But the thing is, these are all actions. They are verbs. This is nothing about Who I Am. Or what I want…To Receive.

    Today, I am going to think about desire in the reverse of what I’ve always done. Instead of thinking about what I want as outside of me, or moving out from me (or even what I want someone ELSE to do), I am going to think of desire as something that comes toward me.

    This is my practice for the day…

  388.  #388tereana on May 27, 2015 at 4:37 am

    I am switching my desires from “masculine” mode to “feminine,” receiving – independent of what anyone else does or says. I get to feel, observe, and receive. My homework 🙂

  389.  #389Dominique on May 27, 2015 at 5:41 am

    Femininewoman – I wish you well on your upcoming surgery. When is it? Are you going to be at the Hospital for Special Surgery? If you would like a visitor, I would feel delighted to come by. You may remember I had a difficult time, but it was the meds I couldn’t handle more than anything else. I’m here if you need/want support before/during/after. Walking is VERY important post surgery, more than many doctors say. Find some trails, dirt ones. Pavement will feel excruciating and for some time.

    Love to you.


  390.  #390Azure Blu on May 27, 2015 at 5:57 am

    {{{{Millie}}} #372
    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    I am so sorry you are feeling so anxious and heart broken,

    You are brave to get out there and CD
    You tried… don’t feel badly about
    pulling back a bit
    if it’s NOT feeling good…
    (You know you can hide your profile
    so you don’t have to put it all back up again…)

    I dont’ know if you knew
    I am taking this time – since I broke it off with Spirit-
    to just SIT IN my feelings of heart break
    fear (of being alone forever)

    Sit with my feelings and love them
    hate them…
    Discover them…
    I have talked to 2 Rori coaches
    this has helped
    and being on Siren Island
    is sooo soothing, comforting
    and supportive.

    Indigo was the one who helped
    me understand
    that sometimes (lots of times)
    it is OK to

  391.  #391Azure Blu on May 27, 2015 at 6:00 am

    Victoria #371
    Your warm, Siren Vibe
    is soooo powerful..
    love what happened as you
    used the Rori tools

  392.  #392Azure Blu on May 27, 2015 at 6:11 am

    {{{Waterfall}} #367
    I am so sorry to hear about
    the loss of your father
    at such an important time
    in your life…
    That would be a deep grief
    I have loss in my past that
    surfaces off and on
    and asks to be soothed, examined
    accepted and loved
    and each time that i allow
    myself to feel this and
    NOT PUSH these feelings AWAY
    there is more healing,,,

    It sounds like you are doing this.

  393.  #393Azure Blu on May 27, 2015 at 6:15 am

    thank you soooo much for sharing your journey
    with your fiance…
    It helps me so much to see the dynamics
    after you have become a more solid couple..
    and how the rori tools
    Sounds like you are navigating all of this soo