Dating a Man Who’s Tormented By His Culture and Family

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heartinhandsHere’s a question from Alice – very unique, and yet I know many of you are dealing with it, or know more about it than I. Please help out if you can…

“Dear Rori, I have listened to your work and read items on your website and what you say seems to make some sense to me but I am stuck.

My situation is that I have been in a “relationship” with a work colleague for nearly 10 months now. We started as friends. I then got the courage to tell him I was attracted to him. I left it for him to decide where he took that information from there. He decided that he wanted to pursue it further and we have enjoyed amazing physical and emotional connection – of which he will openly acknowledge that connection also.

The issue is that our relationship is “secret” – because we work together and secondly because he comes from an asian background – and I dont. His mother (who I believe became aware that he was seeing someone in the first month) has since moved in with him and is now taking all his time and attention. He told me at the start that he had an ex-girlfriend who he was still friends with as his and her parents did not know they had split.

There was an expectation that they would marry. After many discussions he told me he would speak to his mother so we could be “out in the open”. He did do this but his mother’s response was that he had to “work things out” with his ex-girlfriend who she wants him to marry to “save face” so people can benefit.

I can see that he is torn between his “duty” to his family and his desire to be in a open and loving relationship with me. He swears to me that they have not been physical or intimate for many years now and that before me they both saw other people but the ex-girlfriend (who he says he does not love anymore) is still apart of his life because of his mum, and demands him to put on a front for special occasions that they are together – and he does this (not nearly as often now that I am aware of as it was in the start). I know he has gone to his best friend for advice (as he is not asian) but from what he says he was of little help.

I feel now because of all the pressure that he is receiving at home he is withdrawing from me because he says he “has so much to deal with, pressure going on at home” that he struggles to find time for me – this in turn makes me feel that he doesn’t want to spend time with me, that I am not important to him – but he says seeing me involves thinking of ways to get away from his mother and he feels guilty for lying and doing this. I know it is a mutual attraction, he says he has been physically attracted to me for 18 months (now 2 1/2 years) before we hooked up.

We did not sleep together until six months into seeing each other despite doing all we could to resist and now the sexual attraction from both sides is intense chemistry and passion.

I am unsure of how I assist us in having a future together, I love him, I have told him this, he knows I am committed to him, he constantly asks when we are alone “what are we going to do”. I am stuck on showing him how to have the courage to do what “he wants” and not what is his perceived responsibility to his family. I am even unsure whether I should be helping him with this.

To stop the pain I am feeling I gave him a deadline of Christmas to make a decision on telling his mum/making moves and plans to put this into action or letting me go – He struggles with having this deadline, he says he knows is the right thing but still is not happy with it. I see with this – I am now lost at what I should be doing. I don’t want to push him, loose him or be impatient but this is tearing me up. Alice”

And here’s my answer:

Alice, I work with many women who are stuck in this exact situation. They are more progressive, but their families still think in the way they were brought up, or the way they still live – in different countries, different cultures, different religions that have strict social rules of conduct and duty, and the good men they’re with are all torn up by their duty to family and ex wives and even simply women friends who are also friends of the family.

I don’t believe you can do anything to help this along. I’ve seen women stuck in these situations unendingly. And even when the man seems to move forward, he is still feeling pressure from the ex and the family. He never escapes the aura of “shame.”

Painful as it is, the best thing here is to simply say you will continue to date him, but not exclusively, and then Circular Date. You can decide if you can handle sex, but I wouldn’t even try it. If you can’t handle this “dating” rotation, then you must break it off until he can figure out what to do…

I’d so appreciate it – and know Alice would too – if any of you are very familiar with cultural differences and difficulties, please give us any information you have – I know it would help many women in these same situations, especially since we have readers here from all over the world….

Love, Rori

62 Comments

  1.  #1ruth on November 13, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Rori you rock..I am English though my family is from a different culture. I feel what Alice should be doing is circular dating and if she feels this is way too much for her to handle she should be taking care of herself. This man will take care of himself too. Love knows no boundaries, if the man trully wants to be with her he will. Alice take a shower and lather and lather some more and rid yourself off this man he is draining you, draining you off resources which only belong to you and you alone. I hope this makes sense to you Alice, you are a goddess and should be treated like one.



  2.  #2ABC on November 13, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    I am Chinese.
    i know in Asian culture, “saving face” is the most important thing especially for older generation. my parents and their parents would not tolerate anyone in the family who brings shame onto the family. And they believe that I should marry a Chinese, someone they can trust and is from the same background.

    it really depends on the man to call the shots. if the man is MAN enough and really is into you, doesn’t matter if he’s Asian or white, he would do anything he can to be with you even if the whole world is against him.

    Although i do know that most Asian men are very traditional and respectful of their parents, some men i know do end up marrying girls their parents want them to marry.

    however, i don’t know any Asian guy who’s willing to let a woman they love date another guy. They are so traditional in a sense that if you are dating more than one man, they think that you are not a serious girl, so not the “marry” type.

    I would say always do whatever it’s best and healthy for ourselves. just like Rori you said in the “reconnect” program, stick to our values and boundaries, even if it feels bad and scary at first, but deep down we all know we have to make decisions that are best for US. When in doubt, give it some time and space, and see what happen.



  3.  #3Kaitlyn on November 13, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    This man is a baby who can’t seem to separate from his mommy. Culture schmulture. Get rid of this loser.



  4.  #4Ann on November 13, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    I don’t know about other cultures but Alice if you stick around here the sirens will help you the best they can. Good luck Hugs.



  5.  #5Callista on November 13, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    I was in a situation like this. My ex let his family determine our future. He was also from an Asian culture. His family put pressure on him to leave me and marry another woman that they had chosen because it was taking me “too long” to have children. He did the whole “being torn” thing for months and I was caught in the middle. In the end, he chose his family over our marriage and was more concerned with his family and the new girl’s reputation (saving face) than with me and our 7-year marriage. He wouldn’t let her go although he said he only wanted me. It became clear to me that I had to leave. There is a saying that you can take the man out of his culture but you can’t take the culture out of the man. I believe this to be true. With a guy, what you see is what you tend to get. And this one is showing all the signs of not being man enough to stand up to his family. I deserved better, and so does Alice.



  6.  #6Dorothea on November 13, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I feel like this man hasn’t made a decision because he hasn’t had to yet. Like she said, he knows she is committed to him. Committed to what?

    if Alice has been right in front of him this whole time then there has been nothing for him to decide. The time for the no girlfriend speech is NOW. He is entitled to take his time deciding what is right for him and it feels terrible waiting around wondering.

    I feel frustrated and saddened at the thought that we should talk more about this man’s culture and his stuff. It would feel so much better to help Alice with her power speech and getting in touch with herself.

    I also feel like Alice is extremely brave and confident to want to be with a man who comes with a family like THAT. I wish I could be like that!



  7.  #7nikita on November 13, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    Word…. I’m with Dorothea
    Feels better…….than judging him…or speculating…..



  8.  #8Daria on November 13, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    however, i don’t know any Asian guy who’s willing to let a woman they love date another guy. They are so traditional in a sense that if you are dating more than one man, they think that you are not a serious girl, so not the “marry” type.



  9.  #9Daria on November 14, 2009 at 12:00 am

    insert any culture here:

    however, i don’t know any _____ guy who’s willing to let a woman they love date another guy. They are so traditional in a sense that if you are dating more than one man, they think that you are not a serious girl, so not the “marry” type.

    I feel kinda mad reading this. my cousin was dating an ____ insert culture here ____ guy and he encouraged her to circular date if that’s what she wanted because he said he wanted her to be able to have whatever she wanted and be sure she wanted to be with him

    also… if they wouldn’t be ok with her dating then they would CLAIM her…

    also i read a rori newsletter of a her words “traditional Chinese girl” named Alice! in the newsletter that was having great success circular dating in China

    so yeah i feel mad



  10.  #10ABC on November 14, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Hi rori,

    have you touched the topic on when i should bring the guy to meet my parents?? i haven’t found anything like this on this blog or from your news letter.

    i am dating this guy for about 1 month and he picks me up from time to time. it just feels weird that i don’t let him into my house, i am afraid that he’s gonna feel rejected, but i don’t bring guys to meet my parents until i am in a committed relationship, or at least i know he wants one from me.

    he’s offered to meet them, but sounds very casual about it. i have not met his parents either. in my culture, it’s a big thing to meet the parents, i don’t know how to tell him about this without sounding pushy. at the same time i do want to get to know him better and see if he’s the one i want to be in a relationship with—he knows that i want to see if i can at least be friend with him and that he’s “quality”

    It feels weird to talk about this. i don’t know what to do. can you offer some tips? thank you.



  11.  #11Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:02 am

    We have a divorce rule “there is no reason why two people shoud be together, if they dont love each other” and thats it very simple no judgement, shame attached. We are expected to find another mate soon after though, I prefer to circular date:) I’m 43 a big girl, my mother is slowly coming to understand that. I did however bring two dates to meet her, she got up and embraced one guy and said ” I like you” like in a sense, choosing him or approved of us. She is looking for a husband for me to drive her around, take her on errands, basically “run” the poor guy. I had a date tonight, we went to visit “mom” and she told him “oh you dont have to do that” meaning she didnt approve, just by her saying “no, you dont have to do that” like refusing his act of kindness. He did get nervous because we are from the same ‘culture” native american lol, he sensed this from her, I did to hehe. Circular date, circular date, circular date.

    My mom is kinda funny that way, she “hooked me up” with a boyfreind along time ago, it didnt work out lol. I’m bringing all my circular dates to MOM, she wont be happy until I am with this one particular guy, he is Italian by the way. My mom is weird, she feels that the guy I spend “forever” with has to have her needs met first and continually, like trips to the store, fixing things, whatever, kinda like leverage over these guys, I will approve so long as you “provide’ for me. If you love my daughter then you will do as I say. I of course dont let her get away with that kinda stuff , as much as I would like to scream at her and tell her off , well you know…respect I suppose. I dunno but I am going to circular date until the cows come home! I’m expecting her to say something soon , lol about the two dates I brought to her lol. I live an hour away and dont answer the phone when she calls lol.



  12.  #12Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:29 am

    I have to go see my mom tomorrow, I dont “have to” but I will. My date and I did some “traditional stuff” together, we prayed at the same scared fire in the four directions today. If she knows I am coming with date she met today, sure as sure can be she will have a list but first she will have a ‘talk” with me, he will show up and she will have a list of her “needs”. She’ll tell me she doesnt feel it for this guy but yeah as long as her needs get me, then he is tolerable for now. Thats my MOM!



  13.  #13Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:32 am

    Mooseman wouldnt stand a chance with her though. she would ask his whole family history, he would know what was up lol.



  14.  #14Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:41 am

    She will say “dont bring him here again” or “I dont want you with him” depends, tomorrow she wont say anything, she’ll find out through “indian telegraph” exactly who his family, she’ll let me go do my thing, she will complain but how loudly I dunno…:) funny

    Circular dating rocks!



  15.  #15Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:53 am

    I think the “MOM” gauge is universal, I dunno. My mom didnt like my ex and didnt like his family , she made this very clear to me, my grandmother on the other hand liked my ex , most likely becuase he really understood our language and could relate and have in depth convos with her.



  16.  #16Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:56 am

    My mom found him useful and he did a lot of work for her, he would never measure up so he had no choice really. You love my daughter your going to cut down these trees or do this or that bring me here do that, oh she could be trouble.



  17.  #17Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:56 am

    I dunno if its cultural but thats just the way she is.



  18.  #18Tina on November 14, 2009 at 3:59 am

    She would exploit his workfullness to her other elder women friends too. Wow what a topic! lol



  19.  #19Tina on November 14, 2009 at 4:04 am

    Sounds like to me the asian mom and my mom want to benefit a lot of people lol.



  20.  #20Tracy on November 14, 2009 at 5:39 am

    Tina,
    It would feel great to do so much stuff with mum and grand mum….my mum stays far away so i don’t get to see her much….thanks for sharing…



  21.  #21Tracy on November 14, 2009 at 5:45 am

    wow…i would feel so torn if i was in Alice situation….
    I understand the feeling of helplessness when caught up in such a situation….
    I totally agree with Rori on this one.My happiness overides everything else and its best to take care of me and what feels good for me…
    It feels much better knowing that the right man for me is available and will step up no matter what….and so i circular date until he finds me…



  22.  #22Chaudemaman on November 14, 2009 at 6:25 am

    Back in my university days (20ish yrs ago) I fell hard for a Chinese fella. His dad was a minister in the United church. I should clarify here… we fell hard for each other, so I thought.
    After uni, he moved to another province to find work in his field. I was so ready to move away from my family, change universities, etc. Finally I had the phone call where I asked where this was going because I wasn’t willing to leave everything for a man who didn’t want me forever. He tells me “It would be emotional suicide to marry you.”
    WTF! It took me years to get over that comment. He was torn between his culture, religion, and what he felt he needed to do to be his own person.
    Funny thing… we got back in touch thanks to the internet in the last year or so… And he’s the one who’s recommended Rori to me…lol



  23.  #23alias girl on November 14, 2009 at 6:34 am

    i don’t know. i feel unqualified and not very useful on this topic. mostly i just feel triggered. i don’t have a feeling of being bound by culture or family. i can imagine what it might feel like. and if i imagine it well, the pull really feels very strong to conform to family/cultural traditions. a person would have to be a really independent/rebel kind of person to break free of that pressure. and most people just aren’t. and this guy in rori’s article doesn’t sound like he’s about to bust loose of familial expectation in this lifetime. but that is just useless speculation on my part.

    so all i can say is i would have to follow MY heart and MY feelings in the situation. i’m all about feeling good and feeling joy and this situation does not sound conducive to that. it sounds like a way to punish oneself and i used to be good at that until i started feeling my feelings. punishing myself feels bad. being in a situation were love is being withheld for whatever reason just feels bad. i don’t care what reason a man has for not being able to provide love. i care about how i feel and my happy ever after.

    so i would probably say “maybe next lifetime” to the guy. and then circular date.



  24.  #24Simply Shannon on November 14, 2009 at 7:52 am

    This may be a cultural thing but this is still “his business”. He’s not a bad person for doing what he was raised to do. I do that stuff too. It’s familiar. It’s what we know. However, if a man is withholding his love and not committing to me, that feels bad. Doesn’t matter what his cultural background is. It just feels bad to me. He’s got every right to do whatever feels good to him. And my only obligation is to do what feels good to me.

    I believe a great relationship is out there for all of us. So why is it that we get tied up in one even when we know it no longer feels good? Why is it so hard to let go? I’m still struggling with this. I’ve moved on, and I’m dating other men, but I still think of my past relationships. And normally it’s to reminisce about the fun times. Why do I gloss over the bad times or the bad characteristics or the things I don’t want in a man? That feels so weird and down-right foolish. Lately I’ve been using it as a tool to figure out what I want (fun times) versus what I don’t (bad times), but I still think about my old boyfriends. Blech. I find myself missing them and wanting to contact them. Thankfully I haven’t but still. Why the memories???



  25.  #25tinque on November 14, 2009 at 8:09 am

    Interestingly enough my first husband was/is Chinese, from Malaysia. We met in New Zealand where he was attending university (the Chinese in Malaysia at that time, maybe still, were discriminated against even though they comprise 45% of the population, so a great number continued schooling in other countries. At the time NZ had an open door policy.) I was such a baby then, sixteen.
    Unusual and especially for the time, thirty years or so ago, the family accepted me when we went to visit them in Kuala Lumpur. Maybe not with open arms. I’m sure they would have preferred a Chinese girl, but they did not shun me nor lay on the guilt.
    They were traditional though all his siblings spoke English as did his father but not the mother. They put on quite the ceremony for us. Though they insisted one of my dresses be a white “Western” one. For the big dinner I wore a red cheong sam I had made. I still have those dresses.
    So I suppose I was fortunate in that I met no family resistance though not so lucky in my choice.
    I’m not much help in Alice’s situation, but from what I know and what has been said already, she likely will not ever come before the family.
    xxoo



  26.  #26Rori Raye on November 14, 2009 at 11:07 am

    ABC – wanted to answer this because it’s about Speaking the Truth. Talking about your families is something that you can do so early in a relationship – just sharing feelings….Saying…I was feeling concerned about something and feeling weird — I know I live with my parents, and I wonder if it feels weird to you that I haven’t introduced you….so I wanted to let you know how things work in my culture…that it’s sort of serious to meet parents, like it would be if I had children for you to meet children, and I don’t want to put any pressure on our relationship… So it would just feel better right now to wait on the introductions …what do you think? And then you can have a deep, connected conversation, in which he talks about HIS family, too! Love, Rori



  27.  #27Mary Ann on November 14, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I think the bottom line and the common denominator here is that no matter what the issue is…culture, fear of commitment, big walls, drugs, baggage from past relationships. It’s the same message, we need to do the same things. Whatever it is, it’s HIS stuff and we have no control over it. He has to deal with his stuff, and we need to communicate our boundaries, (we need to HAVE boundaries) and follow through on them with our happiness as the goal. We need to follow our feelings.
    No matter what the issue…they’re really just a different colour…if he’s not rowing the boat…we need to jump ship…if he decides to take charge of his boat and come get us and ask to get back in the same boat then we can choose what we want then.

    I agree with Dorothea too, and Simply Shannon!
    Lets help Alice write her speech!!

    If it were me I would maybe say:
    I understand you have a lot to think about, and you can have all the time you need to work that out. I love you and feel scared and sad, but you can’t have my commitment when I don’t have yours. What do you think?

    Sirens?



  28.  #28Tina on November 14, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Mary Ann, I would treat him no different. I would use Rori Raye tools in any situation. I dont know about other women around the world, if it would be safe to do and practice, I love North America! I feel all patriotic now 🙂

    In Alice’s situation, I’m going to assume she is not Chinease, I’m going to assume that her “boyfriends” ex does not feel the same way Alice’s “boyfreind” feels about “benefiting lots of people” and saving face. It feels like another MOM situation to me. I feel really triggered by the excuse of culture to benefit himself , really it feels like it is all about him, call me judgmental whateveaaa. He is having extramarital sex, does some rules apply when when marrying outside of ones own culture and while some rules dont apply. I would feel that if he was so bond by culture that he would never have even bothered looking in Alice’s direction let alone having sex with her and taking up her time while “stringing her along” siting culture give me a break! I am being judmental, I feel sooo triggered grrr.



  29.  #29Tina on November 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Alice is going against her belief of marriage, she is going along with the idea that their relatioship is to be kept a “secret” I call bullshit on this dude.



  30.  #30Flipper on November 14, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Having married someone of a different culture, albeit one not that far removed from my own, I’d often assume that the problems and incomprehension stemmed from the cultural differences. Only much later did I realize these were far outweighed by the man-woman difference (thank you Rori for the language and sensitivity lessons to actually deal with that).

    A practical suggestion to Alice and others in similar situations: seek out other mixed couples, especially those with someone of the same nationality or ethnicity as your Love Interest. Also look for people formerly involved in such couples, ethnic social clubs, etc. Their experiences and insights, (whether you can even find anyone in a successful relationship) should be invaluable to help determine your own chances. Also, be sure to find out about spousal and parental rights and duties in the country of origin, especially if the children could wind up there.

    Our culture is always a huge part of who we are, whether we like it or not, whether we are personally in agreement with it or not. When our cultural imprint is exclusive and intolerant of anything that is different to itself, the individual risks losing their identity , including all family ties and inheritances if they go outside it. (For many women in some very traditional cultures, this may even mean forfeiting their right to life.) Even if someone is strong and willing to give all that up, it puts a big added strain on the relationship to compensate for that loss. For many first generation offspring, there’s no escaping. Maybe if those who’d like to have done differently for themselves (but were prevented or didn’t dare) marry other like-minded people from their community, there’s a greater chance their children can then go outside the mould.



  31.  #31Flipper on November 14, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    BTW, great speech Mary Ann.



  32.  #32nikita on November 14, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Tina

    LOL 😉



  33.  #33Mary Ann on November 14, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    thanks Flipper…I’m learning lol!!



  34.  #34alias girl on November 14, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    thanks, that was really well said, flipper. i feel expanded to read it. 🙂



  35.  #35Tracy on November 14, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    Flipper,
    Great post….loved it…

    Mary Ann….u said it so well…if the man is not willing to row the boat…it doesn’t matter the reason behind it…just jump ship and get someone who is willing to..
    I feel so happy reading all the responses and they feel like the same message for me…i love that i am learning so much…

    Tina,
    Loved your comment…..made me laugh..



  36.  #36ABC on November 14, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    thank you Rori,

    for your prompt help! he picked me up and we talked a little in the car and i opened up completely and told the truth about how i felt about the whole thing. it just feels so good to be able to communicate through feeling messages and that the guy actually “gets” it.

    thank you again for your wonderful work. i love love love the “reconnect your relationship.” everything starts to make sense to me clearer now. i’ve been listening to it everyday on the way to school. recommend it to everybody!

    LOVE
    ABC



  37.  #37Daria on November 15, 2009 at 12:28 am

    omg i just realized something. I donn’t think I have Reconnect your relationship!

    WHOA.

    I thought I had all the programs… but I have Commitment Blueprint, I don’t think I have Reconnect. AREYOUSERIOUS>??



  38.  #38Daria on November 15, 2009 at 12:30 am

    ok I DO have it, because i have an order for it from 2 years ago… where is it now… I told my mom I would give it to her…



  39.  #39Daria on November 15, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Universe, please pop up Reconnect and Targeting asap my mom and I thank u.



  40.  #40Daria on November 15, 2009 at 12:51 am

    im feeling agitated and worried



  41.  #41Daria on November 15, 2009 at 2:31 am

    im feeling good now



  42.  #42Daria on November 15, 2009 at 2:31 am

    maybe eating the donut thingies with sugar that my mom made was insipring my feeling agitated and angry



  43.  #43Sasha J on November 15, 2009 at 3:34 am

    Hi Sirens,

    A few years ago I was involved with an Indian Muslim. I am Chinese and have grown up in Singapore.
    It feels like a waste I did not have Rori’s programs back then……….
    I felt so caught up with the romantic notion of getting married in Bombay with a guest list of thousands, to a dashing man who was not an extremist, and most importantly, wanted a family and loved his. He was reasonably faithful to his religion (he prayed every morning and I felt so impressed) and had a loving family.
    He was really in love with me but he was very torn between his duty of marrying a born Muslim, which his mother felt strongly about, and marrying me.
    He ended up breaking up with me and I literally grovelled and leaned forward for the next 6 months (of course I know better now 😉 ), trying to convince him I was good enough.
    Of course, in time I came to know that I id not want to be in anything where I did not feel like I was good enough by decree of birth. I also learnt not to take it personally and most of all, I’ve learned that rejection is God’s (or however we belief) protection.

    After that I fell into something pretty co-toxic with a charming, loving but depressed addict, which I have just left 3 weeks ago.

    Today I feel grateful for learning my worth. Baby step by baby step

    Thank you Rori and fellow luscious Sirens 🙂

    You know, Rori, somehow whenever your blog post comes up it feels immediately relevant to something I am experiencing or have experienced before.

    I feel certain I am not the only one that feels that way….I guess we are all so similar……feeling scared and lost sometimes and feeling strong and brave and beautiful at others 🙂

    lots love,
    xoxo

    P.S yesterday my flatmate and I watched TArgeting Mr Right and we felt giggly….I have signed up on eharmony and RSVP and feel petrified….and I feel quite proud of my profile……..and I feel petrified!



  44.  #44alias girl on November 15, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    i lent my Targeting Mr Right to a “friend” at work who turned out not to be so friend-like after all when all the weird stuff started going down at work. i asked her several times over a period of months if she could return it and she never did. i felt it was purposefully withheld as a continual process of spiteful cruelty and “haha-ness”.

    i bless all those people.

    hahahahahahah. so much money is coming in that i can buy TEN copies of EACH of RORI’s programs and just hand them out to stranger’s if i want.

    so much money is coming in I could buy copies for ALL my ex coworkers so they too can escape the bucket. hahahahaha

    there is this truism that if you have a bucket of crabs and one of the crabs attempts to escape the bucket the other crabs will pull it back down in and prevent it from leaving the crowded, smelly, miserable bucket. HAH! i ESCAPED THE BUCKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAH!

    I don’t care what it took. IT WAS ALL WORTH IT. I WILL NOT RETIRE IN THAT BUCKET.

    i can shine and be adored and be appreciated and be cheered on and have fun adventures and WAKE UP WITH ENERGY and try new things and be on my happy ever after.

    hah!!!!! MY HAPPY EVER AFTER HAS NOTHING AT ALL TODO WITH HANGING OUT IN A SMELLY BUCKET.



  45.  #45alias girl on November 15, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    yae sasha. baby step by baby step. I feel happy you are here.



  46.  #46alias girl on November 15, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Mama’s Daily Fluff:

    Sometimes the only thing to do is to be dazzled by your own deliciousness.



  47.  #47Simply Shannon on November 15, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Alias Girl: I feel happy reading you escaped the bucket!!



  48.  #48Sasha J on November 15, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    thanks alias girl 🙂

    i feel like i have just left a smelly bucket too ….lucky me…..i hope one day i can look back and feel strong inside enough to feel compassion and empathy and see how we are all on our own path……….

    that’s boo about the co-worker…………………….i feel annoyed



  49.  #49alias girl on November 16, 2009 at 12:38 am

    thanks sasha j. me too. thanks for the reminder. we are all on our own path.

    i needn’t let others choices affect me.

    i can choose to focus on my own self and my own happiness.

    (p.s. i feel GREAT you escaped the bucket too!!!!)



  50.  #50Sasha J on November 16, 2009 at 4:01 am

    WHOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA

    i feel like for the past hour i have been dangerously sitting on the edge of the smelly bucket, texting angry messages to my ex. I feel like a fool and I feel so so so so angry and ashamed I let myself believe he would change after multiple times cheating and I feel very addicted to sending him angry texts and i feel sosososososo upset and angry ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    I feeel rocks in my chest and hot tears



  51.  #51Daria on November 16, 2009 at 6:02 am

    Sasha J I feel happy you are here!

    The crabs are now becoming more intelligent and now they are teaming together to climb on each other and allowing one of them to escape the bucket yeah! like ants! and then that one will now send a rope down for the other crabs to climb up dont believe it ! wELL WATCH! the crabs climbing up forwards not back wards out of that bucket and heres the last one dangling with the rope and hitting the side of the bucket he is coming up hes almost at the edge oh he tips his claw over the edge he’s coming up hes out! yeah all the crabs are out of the bucket they are congratulating each other and leaving after looking curiously down in the bucket and seeing how far down they were now they are chatting and leaving the bucket area…

    crabs are yummy

    i feel left out and alone in social situation but I DO IT MYSEFL another big revelation and i let myself feel the weird feeling and went for my BASELINE feeling which felt real



  52.  #52Mercedes on November 16, 2009 at 9:08 am

    Rori: This post brings up something I know very little about as well – cultural differences and how to deal with them in a relationship.

    I do want to say though that this man has shown an EXTREME loyalty (mabye fear??) to his mother. If Alice chooses to stay, she needs to understand that the situation with his mother will never change. If he chooses to stand up to his mother and be proud to have her on his arm…it will be because he was afraid of losing her and he loved her too much to let her go. It will NOT be because he’s a new man and will always stand up to his mother. If mother decides he doesn’t need any children…Alice will have to give another ultimatum to have a baby. If mother decides he needs a wife who stays home unless her son is with her…then Alice better be prepared to stay home. If mother decides the kitchen needs to be painted brown…then Alice better like the color brown. Regardless of what this man does to keep her…mother will win or there will be a fight.

    I only believe this because I was married to a man who was totally and completely loyal to his mother. The unfortunate part was I didn’t always agree with his mother. The even more unfortunate part was I lost when push came to shove.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  53.  #53nikita on November 16, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Mercedes,

    Word.

    I am feeling some ……”i don’t know what”…about the mother…I know too many friends who have “broken from tradition”…….this feels like something way more familiar than cultural….this feels innate….



  54.  #54mumtaz on November 23, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    I am an asian/british girl.. i’ve seen men in such situation who are fiercely loyal to their mother and choose them over everyone, because as some say it’s easy to find or replace a wife but you can never replace a mother. However, there are some guys who emotionally lead you on to believe they are in a dire circumstances and cannot choose, but are are playing mind games with you. It is best to move away from him for the time being and focus on yourself and what you need the most and what you desire. Because here your desires and feelings are not being met and your left feeling empty and disheartened, which isnt fair in the least. It is hard. in our weakest moments we are the strongest and find our strenght to look after our selves and also gain perspective of how we should be treated and what we deserve… think out side the box!! yes the guy should respect his mother but also should respect you as well. His family can lose face infront of society is his explanation but accepting your relationship and making it clear to his family in who you are to him could also gain respect, it’ll take time but they need to know you first and what is the status of your relationship. you gave him a time so stick by what you said if he doesnt meet that deatline move away and take care of yourself… I have seen some asian guys manipulate girls from different cultures and make promises that they cannot keep, wheras as when they go home or with there boys they cant stand it if girls of there culture date guys out of their race and fume… hypocrites the lot of them who think like that but then they’ll mess about and then marry one of there kind. i really and genuinely hope he is true and honestly loves and cares for you.. and gains the courage to also stand by you!! good luck xoxo



  55.  #55Rori Raye on November 24, 2009 at 9:38 am

    mumtaz, Welcome, and then you for your insights…Love, Rori



  56.  #56mumtaz on November 25, 2009 at 7:44 am

    thank u Rori… thank you for this whole new world you have created… i really appreciate your work and the values you bring to it. although i haven’t yet read your book i always recieve you emails, which i look forward to all the time. the e-letters has helped me has an individual and learn to know myself and what i want. i so far i have used the feeling messages with everyone i am with even the guy am with and has shown alot of results, especially with my man. he is also using the feeling messeges and connecting with me. keep up the excellent work you do. love mumtax xoxo



  57.  #57Alice on January 4, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    With a man for 2 years Muslim man, every year Ramadon no sex for that month (living together) would not take me to these fuctions..so left alone in September. The next year asked me to marry him ….the vows between me, him Allah….so we could have sex together during Ramadon. I still could not go to fuctions as this was not a marriage in church or blessed by friends…..Oh I was happy about the marriage and thought surely the real one is around the corner instead in October he divorced me three times and left me with a lease….of a year. Broken hearted you bet…still not knowing the why of it. But cultural background isn’t easy….for the most part we came to an agreement….this one we could not. I wanted real marriage…because of love…..He said he couldn’t take care of me not husband matrial…but I was good enough to live with…..your heart will be broken….giving you HUGS NOW



  58.  #58Maria on May 29, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Hi there, back from a journey, and checked the link Shannon sent on the topic of Asian men and culture differences. Im totally agree on Shannon on the situation at the end of the day being still “his business”. I also agree on what Mumtaz said:

    “I have seen some asian guys manipulate girls from different cultures and make promises that they cannot keep…”

    Yes, mothers are the number ones for them, that was the same with the guy who did this to me… but then – if the moral thing is so important, how come that a man, being married, telling mother (and wife) that he has to fly to “business trips,” making hotel bills (when he says family money runs short), asking his father to come pic him up from airports, making calls on company mobile phone, telling all sorts of stuff about future just to get his cake and eat it too, and then going in front of mother and putting saint face on…then l belive there is still something wrong with the community, no matter how much values they represent.
    I belive this guy is a very bad example, which makes me not to miss him, but to wonder about how they can say they love their mother and family and yet at the same time do those things….On that shadow l do belive this is “his thing and HIS needs” rather than really respecting the community.
    Nuff said.



  59.  #59Shelly on October 29, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    Someone help me! My new boyfriend who has been talking of marrying me! yeah Rori all your tools have been working! This man says he’s never had a connection with anyone like me! I’m so excited and falling hard. So what’s the problem??? We are different religions. He wants me to convert or no deal. He said if I was Christian (I’m Jewish) he would get the priest and marry me tomorrow. I asked what does that mean? (I wasn’t sure if he means he wants me to convert or that I’m just not Christian.) I was about to ask him when he said he feels sick and he’ll call me tomorrow? I just gapped…then he said he needed to take a shower and will call me after…ugh what do I do? I’m freaking out!!!!



  60.  #60BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    Hi Shelly

    This is an old thread, I just noticed your name on the side bar thing on the right of here.

    Copy and paste your post to the latest thread if you want an answer……………….