Dating Dilemma

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rosestemThe Question:

“Rori, It would be fantastic if you could help me with my small dating dilemma: how to get a man’s attention?

How can I make him notice me considering that there are loads of women in the same room. I don’t know if I could make the first move as I’m more of a shy person. What would you recommend?
Best Regards, Allison”

My Answer:

Dear Allison, Great question! First, Don’t make any moves. Let him do it. It’s okay to be shy.

There may be loads of women in the room, and he’s noticing you all. If you’re not his type, there’s nothing you can do about it, so the first thing to remember is to relax.

Even if you don’t feel relaxed.

So how do you look relaxed?

1. Imagine yourself leaning back, both actually and energetically (the way it feels, if you tune in, past the words and body language) when you’re around him. Imagine he’s coming towards you. Stay at least 10 feet from him.

2. Look at him when he looks your way. Hold eye contact for as long as you can – 3 to 5 seconds.

And smile.

3. Lean back (put one foot behind the other so you can).

4. Breathe.

5. Imagine yourself  melting like a candle.

(Stay upright, standing straight, just imagine yourself melting while you smile.)

It s okay if you re nervous, shaky. Don’t try to hide it. Just feel yourself shake and be
nervous and shy, keep smiling, keep holding eye contact, then at about 3 to 5 seconds, turn back to whatever you were doing – eating, talking to a friend, looking at the wallpaper.

6. Now forget about him. If he doesn’t come over to talk to you, he’s not for you. At least at this occasion.

7. I know this sounds difficult. So practice.

Practice on little boys, old men, check out boys, bus boys, waiters, men at work, strangers on the street if you feel safe, anyone behind a counter.

Smile and make eye contact, then go about your business.

8. The next step is what to say to men if they come over and speak to you, and the book will help you with that.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Femininewoman on May 4, 2015 at 6:21 am

    Such clear instructions, thank you.

  2.  #2Tereana on May 4, 2015 at 10:32 am

    New post!

  3.  #3Lovergirl on May 4, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Yep. Eye contact definitely gets men approaching you, when done in a flirty way.

  4.  #4Lavender on May 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    I have Rori’s book but have not been able to invest in her programs yet. I don’t know if the following is part of Rori’s tools in her programs but I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share with all of you. About identifying the NEED behind a feeling and getting those needs met.

    From the following article

    ” It is also crucial to identify the needs behind your feelings. For example you could be anxious because you are afraid that people will notice your anxiety when you speak and they will judge you. Here the need for acceptance is behind your fear. When you have experienced a loss, you feel sad because you will be lonely after the departure of your loved one. The need behind your grief is for love, affection and companionship. When you are angry with your spouse because he broke his promise, the need behind this anger is respect and consideration. When you are able to identify the need behind your feelings, you give a new meaning to your feelings and can do something about meeting these needs in a better way. In this way when you uncover the unmet need, you will be able to address these needs in a healthier manner. If you fail to address these needs, they are more likely to come and grip you over and over. For example, an unmet need for anger could persist and make you angry all the time. This is a sure sign that you need to do something about your anger.”

  5.  #5Zia on May 4, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    Lovergirl – Rori’s toxic men programme might be a great one for you. And I am not saying that S is bad with regards to this, my ex wasn’t horrible or mean just clueless – and even so, that programme helped me HEAPS with working out why *I* was choosing the same patterns over and over again, and I think that it is helpful for anyone who has been in relationship that can have toxic qualities. Definitely worth checking out if you want to figure out your stuff.

  6.  #6Indigo on May 4, 2015 at 9:00 pm


    I love this! That is exactly what I discovered this past weekend. When I have an intense reaction to something, it is about more than just the situation at hand. I need to go back and really see what need is being unmet and address that.

  7.  #7Mandy on May 4, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    Why do I feel so weird emotionally? I feel really out of it from an infection which I’m on antibitotics for…but the question is, why do I feel depressed for no reason???

    Do I feel depressed when I feel defeated or useless?

    Can being physically ill affect you that much emotionally? If so, it hasn’t happened on this big a level before, or at least not that I remember…

    Maybe it’s the antibitoics, but I remember feeling this way if I had lbeen in bed all day and wasted the day.

    But goodness, it feels just as bad as if I’d hurt someone’s feelings or done something bad…

    So weird!!! I love my feelings, truly, because if they weren’t there, it would be like a body without a nervous system to tell the body if it is being harmed or helped!

    But this is weird….

  8.  #8Emerson on May 4, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    #1 FW
    I agree!!
    Priceless! Love it!

    This is one of the hardest tools for me!! Five second smile!! Gawsh! If I could just get myself to practice it haha!
    Well I think I will do that tomorrow…

    Sirens, I have been missing that feeling of being “in love” and close with someone so much that it is making me miss my collegeEx, ToxicEx and Recycled so badly!!

    I’m just craving those innocent moments of closeness and laughter…as well as the more racy moments.
    But mostly the closeness and the wonder of what the future holds, so much hope and optimism I used to have.

    I feel different now.
    I feel jaded.
    I feel disenchanted.
    I don’t WANT to feel that way!
    I feel SAD about it.
    I feel lost how to recover that PART of myself.

    Help yourself Emerson…I tell myself this but I’m not sure what to do…

    I was missing CollegeEx so badly that I googled him…he is a local public figure & in the public eye to some degree, so it was easy to find a youtube of him talking about his area of expertise….I found myself watching an older and a more recent one and it was so strange…his voice was still soo familiar to me, I missed him sirens and let me tell you it has been over ten years….
    I feel pathetic to tell you all this…

    I also felt strangely comforted for a few days after watching the youtube of him….almost like i had a little visit from him, and it felt good.

    I feel so odd about that, like I’m going crazy and turning into a pathetic middle age woman stuck in the past…. I think what shocked me the most is how comforting it was to me. And yet I realized I still “love” him….
    so weird.

  9.  #9Emerson on May 4, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    I guess “weird” is our mutual word of the day! LOL

  10.  #10Emerson on May 4, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    I actually feel rage about that right now.
    I feel amused and
    I feel resigned
    I feel perplexed…
    and I feel hopeless and
    don’t trust myself…
    did I always have visions of having lifelong true love? It never crossed my mind that I wouldn’t have it…actually…and here I am alone.
    More feelings of amusement or is it…
    jaded bitterness….
    shrugging shoulders….
    dragging my feet…
    wanting to throw things…
    and break them to pieces….
    just to hear the “crash!!!”

  11.  #11Emerson on May 5, 2015 at 12:39 am

    I feel a heavyness
    I feel my chin and lip dropping down like a cartoon
    I feel guilty for letting myself down
    I feel rage and scrunched up face
    I feel betrayed
    By my self
    I feel abandoned
    By me
    I feel one eye winking
    The open eye sees something good
    It sees that I created myself
    And who I am today
    And who would I be
    If my circumstances were different ???
    I’ve achieved so much
    I feel proud of myself
    And I still have me
    And my own incentive

  12.  #12Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 4:58 am

    Mandy #7
    I will concur…
    I have been sick for 2 weeks – the flu- (which i got from Spirit)
    and the past week I have been VERY sick…
    MY whole body aches… I feel muscles I didn’t know I had…
    My moods are all over the chart…
    I can’t talk very long on the phone… I Feel exhausted!!!
    I have noticed having strange feelings about EVERYTHING!!
    Sooo… I’ve talked to Spirit off and on but mainly just
    layed around all weekend and drank liquids took Tylenol (which I now believe I am allergic to)
    and tried to manage my job and housework as best I can…
    BUT YES… how very vulnerable and moody I have been…
    Feeling all needy…
    Since Spirit and I both have the sickness we realized we needed to stay apart to try and get over this…
    as we keep giving it back to each other!!! AGHHH!!!

  13.  #13Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 5:00 am


  14.  #14Lovetodance on May 5, 2015 at 7:02 am

    Mandy and Azure

    Take care. Be well. Love those NV’s who are taking advantage of your weakened immune systems
    And even as you read this know your systems are strengthening and repairing and regaining equilibrium…. To health!

  15.  #15Lovetodance on May 5, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Sending hugs sweet siren… good to riff and write it out
    To put it out there into the light….
    To be illumined sorted and shed. Again and again….to keep knowing and learning and loving ourselves

  16.  #16Millie on May 5, 2015 at 7:32 am

    So I’ve made some new dating rules for myself…

    1. I won’t entertain the idea of exclusivity until I’ve been dating the person at least three months. If the guy asks me to be exclusive before then, I will say I’m not ready. The reason being I think I gave my exclusivity away too soon with M. I wanted to and it felt right, but it was too early and I didn’t know him well enough really.

    2. I will not bring any man around my family until after the three month mark. My parents loved M… And being with my family is a privilege and not squandered on men who are going to just dip.

    3. If I’m having an issue with the relationship I will either wait and speak to the person face to face or call them. No more texting for serious things.

    4. I will try to catch myself before I act out. Feel my emotions and if need be tell the guy I can’t see him that night rather than seeing him anyway and making a mess of it because my balance is off.

    If I think of more I’ll post!

  17.  #17Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Ahhh… thank you!!
    finding myself weepy and nostalgic…
    missing my late fiance…
    so strange to be thrown back like this…
    Even as Spirit has been moving our relationship forward…
    Must be me trying to put up a wall to protect myself from too much closeness with Spirit…

  18.  #18Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 7:39 am

    Siren’s it is lovely reading the blog and catching up with everyone’s posts. It feels so light and breezy..

    This weekend I did a lovely recce for a walk with a friend. It was so relaxing and therapeutic. I love being out in the countryside and visiting pretty little villages and churches, country pubs and walks along the river. It’s just nice to be out and about.

    Also my ex D came to visit me. I feel so confused about all of this. When we are together he acts like he is still my boyfriend and like we are finishing where we have left off.

    We chatted a lot and I explained to him how confused I felt. ie every time I broke it off with him he would beg me to take him back but nothing would change. I explained in great detail what was wrong for me, and how he kept asking me what I wanted but how nothing was changing.

    Eventually he seems to understand where I am coming from and admitted that he was not going to change and that he wouldn’t be able to give me the relationship I wanted.

    At the moment I feel a real mixture of emotions. I feel so angry and bitter that he won’t step up to the plate for me. (I know I shouldn’t feel like this but this is the truth).

    I feel angry that he seems to cool about leaving me. And I have all these doubts in my mind that he was only with me because he didn’t want to be the *bad guy* in all of this and only with me for the s*x. And sometimes that why I believe he was with me.

    I also feel angry at myself for letting this happen. I almost feel like I have been *groomed* by him and this scares me.

    For example he won’t offer me a relationship in the conventional sense of the term but yet he seems to turn it around that we have this *lovely, deep and meaningful relationship* where in actual fact I see it as tawdry and a bit toxic and twisted.

    I almost felt like I was smiling and being nice to him just so he would leave without being really dramatic and causing a scene. I just kept putting on a smile and being pleasant because I felt the more he saw me as being *awkward* the harder it was for him to leave the situation, as he just kept wanting to rectify it. ie he didn’t want me to be mad and angry with him. So in a way I had to pretend that I wasn’t in order for him to leave me alone.

    Yet, even after all of this I still feel *angry* that he has rejected me. What is this about?! I should be jumping for joy that I have got him out of the house and agreeing to leave me alone. I feel so confused.

    Also, yesterday for the first time ever I realised how selfish he is. He kept pointing out to me all of the things that I have done to upset him. ie I asked him to move in once and then never mentioned it again. Yet he has done far, far worse to me.

    He keeps asking me if I want children and I say yes, that would be great with the right person. I told him that over time I have realised that he is waiting for me to ask him to marry me, move in with me, and have children with me. But, I told him, this is never going to happen. I told him that I want to be with a man who wants to do those things on his own, not just because I want to do them.

    I also told him how strange it was because he always told me how he has never wanted to have get married, and that having children has never kept him up at night. Eventually, he looked at me and it was like a lightbulb moment for him and the penny dropped and he could see what I was talking about. He did apologise to me and said he could totally see where I was coming from.

    I also told him that I am still massively attracted to him and that every time I see him if he acts romantically towards me then I am left wanting more and if I don’t get more then I feel rejected. Again, eventually it was like a lightbulb moment for him, and again he completely realised and understood where I was coming from.

    What was lovely was that he completely apologised to me. Told me how much he loved me and how much I meant to him and that he was sorry that he had caused me so much hurt. I could see from his reaction that he totally meant it.

    I told him it was really hard for me because every time I see or hear from him I get my hopes up. I was totally honest with him and completely laid my heart on the line. I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do but I felt I had nothing to lose. He is not giving me anything anyway so I might as well be real to him and not pretend that I am not hurt or aching or yearning. Even if this is not what he wants to hear I had to say it.

    Because if it was up to him he would have carried on seeing me and carried on getting his needs met in the relationship and not worrying about mine. And I would have felt aggrieved that I was pretending everything was A okay when it wasn’t.

    I dunno. I feel so confused still. Part of me desperately wants him to come back to me. I wish that wasn’t the truth but it is. I feel all of those wonderful feelings that you feel when you are in love. Like: no-one will understand me like him, no-one will put their arms around me like him, no-one will kiss me like him, etc, etc…

    I still feel jealous every time he talks about all the other women he goes walking with. It also feels like he is trying to make me jealous for some reason, and that alone sets alarms bells ringing for me.

    I will never feel enough for him, yet a huge part of me wants to. I am finding that even writing this I am not giving up the dream that he will come back to me and everything will be okay.

    I still have the dream that one day everything will turn around and he will be the perfect boyfriend that I have always dreamed of.

  19.  #19Beloved on May 5, 2015 at 7:40 am

    I feel soggy-hearted. I feel sad. My chest feels tickly and I feel a yawn passing. I feel crawly, shivery, uncomfortable in my chest and eyes feel heavy.

    TG sent us a text this morning that he is instituting a quiet time. As far as I know, this is because A) he moved into the newly-enclosed den while he is doing the floor in his bedroom so he can hear house noises he couldn’t hear before; B) His ex is living with us for an undetermined length of time and she is affected by the house noises (although us having house guests is determined by whether or not it bothers him) and C) for some inexplicable reason, J has taken to vacuuming at midnight, and 1am showers.
    (Also – ex’s dogs have been barking off and on through the day and night).

    I felt triggered, I feel sick to my stomach. Some old stuff came up that seemed unrelated which I cried out and feels different now. I feel gaggy.
    I feel like, if I had known TG was an alcoholic, and was going to be moving all of these other people in (it was just me and one on the way out when I first moved in)…well, I like to think I would have made different choices, but knowing me I probably would have moved in anyway since I felt so strongly that I needed to get out of my parents’ house.

    So here I sit, not knowing how to respond.
    I don’t feel ok with this.

    I feel angry that it feels like his ex being here is impacting us.
    I don’t know what to say though, I feel at a loss.
    I don’t feel me speaking up is going to change anything.

    I feel even more anxious to get a job and just get out.
    All three of us roomies are really vulnerable in different ways and all of us has been sick with various autoimmune disorders for a while, it feels kind of like “slum lord” tacticts or something. Like, he knows none of us can just afford to up and move and he’s taking advantage.

    I don’t know what to do.
    I feel certain I can live with it for a while until I can figure out something better for myself. I just don’t want to….ugh…
    I feel disgusted.

  20.  #20Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Yes, it is the end of my 2 month timeline…
    and Spirit has Totally stepped up…
    keeps in contact on a regular basis… makes all the plans ahead of time and we see each other at least 3 times a week…
    I have met his golfing buddies, his ballroom dancing buddies
    interesting thing is…
    I didn’t ask for these things… (yes, they are exactly what I wanted)
    But, as Rori says, using the tools and letting them LEAD – you just might get MORE than what you want!!!

    Working hard at Having MY OWN wonderful life,
    Accepting HIM exactly as he is,
    Being warm and just “being there”, when we are together
    Leaning bACK AND TAKING care of ME
    Using feeling messages to ask for what I want
    AND sharing with him the wonderful ways he makes ME feel happy (I have learned to be careful about gushing too much- as this seems to throw off the balance of ME being the PRIZE – not HIM!)

    I feel happy and relaxed about where we are right now…
    everything is soooo good right NOW!

  21.  #21Indigo on May 5, 2015 at 7:57 am


    Wow, reading about your living situation, being as sensitive as I am, I feel such tremendous compassion for you and I feel so uncomfortable on your behalf. It takes me back to various living situations in my past where I felt at the mercy of the “master” or “mistress” of the house. I would feel every bit as queasy and uncomfortable as you are describing. It became eventually so important to me to move into a place with solid boundaries.

  22.  #22Victoria on May 5, 2015 at 7:59 am

    I think you did great. You told him what you want and you are able to let him go if he does not want the same thing. I admire you, this is the sireny way, the authentic way.
    I remember feeling angry with men for the same reason – for being rejected, for him not agreeing to give me what I want. However, I know, deep inside, just like you know, that the man who is right for you will want to give whatever makes you happy out of his own free will.
    You did absolutely great.

  23.  #23Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 8:02 am

    Beloved #19
    Lovely, Siren!!! you continue to amazing me
    on YOUR Siren journey!!!

    I think you have come to a great conclusion…
    A solution that YOU have control of…
    “I feel even more anxious to get a job and just get out.”

    I have found… when things continue to look hazardous and uninviting…
    It is the Universe gently showing us the direction we are needing to go!
    You are VERY wise to realize this…

    And as you said… maybe it’s just best to hunker down… and concentrate on YOUR next move!

  24.  #24Victoria on May 5, 2015 at 8:05 am

    I will print this out and stick it on my fridge door:

    Working hard at Having MY OWN wonderful life,
    Accepting HIM exactly as he is,
    Being warm and just “being there”, when we are together
    Leaning bACK AND TAKING care of ME
    Using feeling messages to ask for what I want
    AND sharing with him the wonderful ways he makes ME feel happy (I have learned to be careful about gushing too much- as this seems to throw off the balance of ME being the PRIZE – not HIM!)

    I am extremely happy for you, and also, able to see how things have improved for me in the last few months, ever since I discovered siren island.

    This works like magic!

  25.  #25Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 8:12 am

    Waterfall #18
    Wow… Great job of beign and amazing Siren

    thank you for sharing this interaction with D…
    I agree with Victoria…

    You continued to share your wants and needs with feeling messages…
    Until he did realize he couldn’t change your mind
    and get you to let go of what YOU want
    just to have HIM around…

    I have found, when I take up for ME,
    My self esteem soars,
    MY self LOVE soars
    and I can get OUT of
    the small cage I had confined myself in
    and begin to stretch my gorgeous wings
    and fly!!!

    we have all been there…
    feeling like no one can kiss us like HIM
    No one can make us laugh like him
    no one can understand us like him

    BUT what happened to me is
    The misery and anguish we get
    from being with this guy
    IS replaced with
    Self LOVE and the possibility
    of Being with A Man that will easily and happily
    Give us EXACTLY what we are wanting in
    a Relationship!!!
    you are going GREAT!!!

  26.  #26Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 8:17 am

    I feel angry, sad and abandoned by myself. All the time I was with D I wanted to change myself and make myself better and *perfect* so that he would love me more.

    I felt if I was the perfect woman then he wouldn’t have to look elsewhere and he would be content. I kept feeling like I had to prove myself and that I had to better myself.

    I never feel my life is where I want it to be and I guess he has picked up on that. He has picked up on my unease and my negative vibe and he has run away.

    He like’s strong, independent women and I never felt he saw me as that. He kept telling me he did yet on some level I didn’t believe it.

    I felt he was with me because I was kind and nice and I made him feel good about himself.

    But why can’t I feel good enough? What is in me that is stopping me?! I feel like I am abandoning me…

    I do tend to over dramatise, and in all honesty I couldn’t ever imagine living with a man because I am so mistrusting and find it really difficult to share my personal space with somebody.

    I get jealous easily, and I don’t like it if they go off and do stuff without me. I will sulk and sulk…

    I am always overly cautious and precious about everything and I would love to be more leaney backy and relaxed about life.

    Part of me feels I have pushed D away with my negative energy. I feel so confused.

    He is a lovely man who has tried and tried to make me happy, yet all of the time I hear these negative voices and I have pushed him away.

    I guess things have been deal breakers for me, but some of those deal breaker, even to me, seem a little over the top.

    Like I got super angry with him for not washing up properly. I am literally like “Argh, I can never live with you! You are so messy.”

    And I could constantly feel myself nagging him and getting so unbelievably worked up about things I felt he wasn’t doing *right*. For example he where he left his rucksack or shoes etc, or the way he drove the car or asked me what I wanted for dinner. I was constantly correcting him and I hated that about myself. Why did these things matter?!

    And I realised the other day I do feel like his mum, and that needs to stop. In so many ways he is trying to step up and I feel like sometimes I am bashing him down every step of the way.

    After all of this I have decided to stay out of his way. I need to fix something deep inside of me. I need to look at myself rather than him.

    I feel so alone and abandoned and in all honesty I have no idea where that is coming from. It is a feeling I have had before and in various times of my life it has been there for various reasons.

    It’s like I want a man or partner to provide a family unit for me. I guess that is what most people want. But at the same time I realise that is a bit superficial and pie in the sky.


  27.  #27Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Victoria #24
    thank you for that affirmation!! :-))

    Sooo glad to hear how YOUR life has improved
    from the Rori tools
    and all the love and support from Siren Island!
    you being here with us is a blessing!
    Yes, it’s magic!

  28.  #28Beloved on May 5, 2015 at 8:33 am

    Indigo and Azure Blue – well, here’s something funny.
    I *know* my answer to everything has always been to run away, so my challenge has been to face my avoidance.

    So, I riffed here, and sat at my desk, feeling all of my feelings. Playing out all of the stories, coming back to my feelings again and again. I finally got down to “something just doesn’t feel right. I can’t put my finger on it, I don’t know what it is, and I just don’t feel okay with it.” I didn’t respond to the text, I just sat with my feelings until it felt time to go downstairs and make some brekkie for myself.

    TG came in right behind me, asked if I had gotten the text, and said mildly sarcastically, “thanks for responding.” I told him, that I felt angry and I didn’t want to respond while I was feeling angry.

    He’s trying to be ‘fair’, because apparently J was up and down the stairs and making a lot of noise in the kitchen last night, which is adjacent to where he is sleeping. He feels he’s being fair by making a blanket rule for all of us. It felt like amazing practice to listen, and keep my mouth shut and not interrupt 🙂
    I told him, it didn’t FEEL fair, and I felt uncomfortable that he was having the conversation with ME about his complaints with J. He told me, “believe me, there’s going to be a conversation about it” and something along the lines of not wanting her to feel singled out. I was like…and if it IS only one person, it feels more fair to me to single that person out!

    He explained more about the struggles he’s having with communicating with all of us, we’re rarely ever at home or in the same room at the same time and how it’s challenging for him. Which I could identify with, since I just went through a similar thing with the bathroom stuff.

    So…I don’t feel *as* much like I need to run, I do know that I do need to get myself more financially stable, although I can see at the moment how not having enough money to escape is…gently guiding (ha) me to face my stuff.

    It felt amazing to say I felt angry and not explain it or justify it. It felt great for him to respond and talk it out with me, lots of eye contact. I even somehow managed to just naturally be about 50% in the dance position.

    Now that I’m feeling happier, I remember TG saying that B, his ex, could sleep through anything, and if it was bothering her, he probably would have told me because, when we actually talk, he’s been pretty open about stuff. It’s bothering *him*.

    I guess it’s just us all trying to figure out how to live together..?

    J has been wanting to be SO chummy, offering me her food, wanting to talk to me about my day. I feel like at some point I need to say to her, I don’t want to be enemies, and, I don’t feel like being friends, either. Although I’m imagining if I do tell her that and trigger her feelings of rejection and abandonment, it will get ugly again.

    It occurred to me just now, too, that this is about my love affair with life itself. J left and empty milk carton by the fridge, and rotten liquified lettuce at the bottom of her drawer that got left open and N left a handful of strands of her weave on the bathroom counter and I left a glob of hair in the bathtub by accident and the trash upstairs hasn’t been changed for 2 weeks and the dishes that came out of the dishwasher this morning were gross and I put a bunch of them right back in and we aren’t all handling things perfectly and wow, how skilled am I at noticing all of life’s alleged imperfections? And it’s beautiful, it’s life, I love life and I love myself.

    So…yeah, that’s where I’m at right now, wherever that is. 😀

  29.  #29Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 8:35 am

    I have to fix the *I am worth it* part of myself I think? If I feel like I am a nag, and I am not worth changing for then possibly this is what I will get back?

    All the time I could feel myself apologising for the way I am, and that in some way I am trying to excuse myself and *wanting* so much to be like these other women who I have put on such a pedestal. Why do I do this?!

    I realise if I don’t feel *good enough* about myself. ie I don’t feel attractive enough, or I don’t feel smart enough, or I don’t feel like I’m adventurous enough, etc, etc.. Then I go deep inside myself, and deep inside my shell and feel an over whelming urge to burst into tears and beat myself up. And deep down I don’t think this is the way to go?! And also deep down this is about me…

    I sort of feel like I can build myself up, and build myself up but with one tiny knock everything that I have built up can come crashing down again.

    With D it was a bit like anything you can do I can do better. I’m sure this wasn’t deliberate on D’s part but that was how I felt. Whatever I had done he had been there done that, bought the t-shirt and would tell me about it in great, great detail… And I would be left feeling like he (albeit not deliberately) had rained on my parade.

    Even if I did something that I knew he never did ie bake a cake, or cook a meal, he just seemed to shrug it off like he wasn’t that impressed. I felt a bit unimportant because of this, and sad but true I would have loved a bit of awe and praise from him. Yet, part of me thinks why do I need his approval to feel like I am *good* at something?! This completely confuses me?!!

    I guess I didn’t really get a grip on these things, and I keep wondering what D’s *message* is. I feel so intrigued by this?!

  30.  #30Beloved on May 5, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Indigo – 21 ” felt at the mercy of the “master” or “mistress” of the house”

    What I noticed, and what felt great, was to talk to TG and seem him as just a man. Not a slum lord or some crazy goblin or a villain, just a man. Who is struggling with his own stuff just like me, and wow do I really love it when he talks to me. I feel super happy that I didn’t respond like everything was ok or distance myself from it, it was so cool how my timing worked out perfectly that he and I ended up in the kitchen at the same time.

    I do feel like, I need to remember to BACK UP when I talk to him in the future, because that is the 2nd time I’ve talked to him where it felt like I was following him out the door a bit while he was talking.

    On the subject of separating the villains in my mind from ‘real people’ – last night as I was drifting to sleep I experienced an auditory hallucination that J was coming into my room at night. This reminded me of another time this happened – with an ex who stalked me. So, this morning I was noticing how the two were getting mixed up in my mind, how this situation was triggering that old terror.

    So many tiny demons all flitting about in my brain, begging for a little light!

  31.  #31Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 8:47 am

    The truth is I am terrified of living with someone and feeling trapped. But when will I know if it is right?! I feel so confused…

  32.  #32Victoria on May 5, 2015 at 8:47 am

    It seems to me that the lesson for every one of us here is to learn to give ourselves the love, appreciation and admiration that we need. Put the oxygen masks to ourselves before we help the person sitting next to us.
    The other thing is, did you ever ask him what he wants? If he does not want marriage or children and family, what are the important things for him, what does he hope to have in his life in the long run? Men are not very good in verbalizing these things but they do have a vision for what they want, and it is not too difficult to find out. May be his vision for his life was just not compatible with your vision for your life. Even better to find it our sooner rather than later.
    The other important lesson for me, in my life journey, is to take no for an answer. I am still working on this one :-).

  33.  #33Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 8:52 am

    I also *have* to remember to let D deal with his own feelings. I cannot rush to *make it better* for him..

    I cannot make it better for him.

    If he is unhappy or upset this is not my fault. I can’t and shouldn’t have to *fix* everything all of the time.

    I need to lean back. I need to think of myself and my needs…

    It is not my fault if he doesn’t make me happy. If he doesn’t step up. I should not feel guilty about this.

    But I do…

    I am going to accept these feelings of guilt and just let them sit with me. I will give the feelings of guilt love.

    I will look deep deep down inside of me and I will wish D well. But I will not abandon me… I will stay strong and stay on my horse and not worry and think about what he is thinking, doing or feeling. If he wishes to catch me up sometime that will be lovely but if not then I will put him on the back of my horse and ride on…

  34.  #34Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 8:56 am

    Beloved #28 & 30
    Wow!!! VERY nice…
    Love how you are managing all this interaction in
    such amazing ways…
    with heart open… learning ALLLL the lessons
    practicing All the Rori Tools…
    Thank you thank you for sharing!!!

  35.  #35Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Victoria – 32 – yes, he did really deep down want marriage and children but had been in a long term relationship with a lady that didn’t want children so he abandoned his own dreams. Then he was with another lady who already had children and they left it to late to have a child together as she was quite a bit older than D.

    I think D just wasn’t sure and wanted the women to guide him as I feel he truly lacked confidence in that department. I always felt on some level that he wasn’t sure about me. Maybe he picked up on my lack of confidence.

    He would constantly tell me that he didn’t mind if I didn’t want children and that he was quite happy it being the two of us. But then also other times he would confess how he deeply wanted to be a father and nurture children because that was in his nature.

    I felt that that was completely true. I felt that he was or is very destined to become a father and I feel there is part of him that is still on a journey to meet the right woman for him. I think if I had said I wanted a child with him he would have been absolutely made up and been there for me 100%. The trouble is I wanted him to be there for me, and not because I had had his baby. I’m not sure if that makes sense!

  36.  #36Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Waterfall #33
    Ahhhh… I feel alllll the rori tools
    working for YOUR good…
    LOVING YOUR feelings!!!
    Letting go of fixing and controlling D

    Great work you’re doing…
    thanx for sharing

  37.  #37Lovergirl on May 5, 2015 at 9:32 am

    So S called me last night, kind of late, after he’d been out drinking with his buddy. We talked for an hour and he was telling me he’d been thinking about having me take over his business for him due to a comment I made when I was “on my rampage”. I’d said something about how he was so bothered about my financial situation (its one of the reasons he is leery of a long term relationship- taking on me plus 5 kids financially, because I’m struggling). So I was like heck, if I didn’t have to worry about xyz I could probably take over your whole side business.

    I was kind of baffled because I’m not even supposed to be working for him now and I gave him back his house key awhile back. Anyway, he said he was really thinking about me doing that for him for real. We didn’t make any set plans but it was interesting that he brought that up because we’ve talked before about how there is no way I could continue being a partner in his business if he is planning to find another woman to spend his life with.

    We had a good conversation, but it ended on kind of a bad note. He had started talking about more intimate stuff and asked me a question that I answered with “I don’t know”. He pressed and I was holding back. He got upset because he hates it when I act evasive. He made a sarcastic comment about my conversational skills and said he was going to bed.

    I was hurt by his comment and we had a (mild) argument about it this morning. He said maybe I should learn to answer questions with something other than “I don’t know”. I said “I guess the more honest answer would have been ‘I’m scared of being criticized and judged and not sure it’s safe to answer” would that have been better? He said YES. We didn’t talk more because he’s at work.

    I guess that’s a lesson in what men really want from us, like Rori talks about. They think its dishonest when you aren’t vulnerable about your feelings with them. Sometimes I find it really hard, but I am learning.

  38.  #38Lovergirl on May 5, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Zia (5)-

    I am really curious about the Toxic Men program as well as others. I hope I can financially get it together enough to order it someday. :/ Right now I’m freaking out about just getting food on the table. Hoping that starts to improve here very soon.

  39.  #39Labbit on May 5, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    Azure Blu — I feel so delighted to hear that things are going very well with Spirit!!!! 🙂

  40.  #40Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    Thank you sooo much!!
    as it has been 2 weeks of him leaning forward
    My voices are warning me that this is the cycle he has…
    2 weeks forward 2 weeks back…
    He might just start pulling back again…
    I’ll stay leaning back and try NOT to Panic!!!
    I am very busy with my work projects right now…
    that should make leaning back easier
    But is has been 3 days since we have seen each other…
    I am missing him now…
    Ahhh… the journey continues!!

  41.  #41Labbit on May 5, 2015 at 12:43 pm


    Firstly I just want to say that if it feels to you like I am directing my comments at you too much, and you want me to back off, please let me know. My feedback is meant only to help guide you but I do not want to stifle you or feel like I am radar focused on you. So if I’m making you uncomfortable in any way say the word and I’ll lay back. 🙂

    I think everything you’ve listed sounds wonderful, especially if it brings comfort to you and allows you to relax and be your authentic self (fully expressive, in the moment, etc.).

    I would caution you against making ‘rules’ for yourself too much, only because they stifle the natural flow. What if you meet an amazing guy who wants to meet your family after 2 months? My family has met LOTS of men I didn’t marry…I usually explained that I was getting to know this guy and meeting them was part of getting to know me. Not wanting to get hurt again makes total sense to me but one of the most important things about dating is to remember the last guy has NOTHING to do with the next guy. It can be hard to drop our past hurts, our story about ourselves and how lovable we feel, but with every new man I met while dating I tried to think of myself at my most confident — for me it was the 17-year-old me who had the world as my oyster. I wasn’t worried about finding a guy to marry or even a guy to date…they came to me, and I let things flow naturally because I was so absorbed in my own life that they were a bonus, not the main dish.

    If I were thinking about guidelines to keep in mind while dating they’d be something like…
    – I will treat every man as though he is here to make me feel good
    – I will stay in the present moment…when I feel my mind trying to predict his actions or the future, I will turn away from these thoughts and focus on what’s right in front of me
    – I will remember that men are looking for a women who can ground them in the PRESENT so he can take care of the future 🙂
    – I will remember that my feminine joy is what a man falls in love with — feeling me radiate out life and love from how well he treats me, and how well I treat myself
    – I will remember that a man’s timeline is very different from mine, and that early on in dating he may come towards me, back away for a few weeks, and then come back…that this is no reflection on me but rather time he is taking to see how he feels about me and what he wants at this time and I have no need to attack him for what feels like disappearance…it’s not disappearing
    – I will remember that I never have to ask the right man to call me more or ask me out more or commit to me…before commitment my only job is to LEAN BACK and OBSERVE his actions, make sure I bring my best to every date and let him know how much I appreciate him, what I like and what makes me feel good…and if he does not meet my needs all I need to do is let him go
    – I will allow a man 3 months to show me who he is…if after 3 months he has not made any effort to come closer, to see me more often, or to be exclusive with me, I will let him go

    I think I had one or two more guidelines but I can’t remember them in this moment.

  42.  #42Labbit on May 5, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Rori talks about this in one of her programs, or maybe a blog post or email? How she likes to teach us how to fish and also give us fish…how we both learn via what we read/hear here and what we experience in our own lives.

    If there’s one thing I wish I could go back and tell myself in the early dating phase, it’s that staying in the moment, just BEING, is so very important. That energy of not worrying about the future AT ALL…of just trusting that everything is going to work out great so long as I keep creating situations for myself where dates are possible (online profiles up, flirting in real life, CDing the world, etc.).

    That feminine energy — no agenda, not trying to get anywhere, releasing my old habits of getting upset at a man if things aren’t “moving forward” after date 3 — THAT feminine energy of simply being is what draws men to us like honey.

    Even with Tender, I like to pretend like every date is our first date. I want to feel that same electric energy every time I see him. That mix of excitement, potential, but not caring about the outcome because I ‘don’t know him’ well enough yet, don’t have any expectations of myself or him. Very much all about the RIGHT NOW, right this second, no past or future. I’ve been with him for almost 1.5 years now (!!!) and that first-date feeling is still there a lot of the time. I hope it stays forever.

  43.  #43Labbit on May 5, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    …How I could let go of even thinking things like, “Well, he texted me on Monday and said we’d go out this week…now it’s Wednesday and I haven’t heard from him, what gives?” I could let go of all of those kind of thoughts. Trust in myself to back off energetically…focus on me…and that he would either come forward or not…but either way it doesn’t really matter…if he comes forward great! We go out on our date. And if not, I decide whether I want to continue seeing him or not. With a roster of guys coming towards me at once, it was pretty easy to not worry about any one particular man…even if I was very interested in him.

    Low key. No pressure. Having fun. Enjoying myself dating. Certainly not how I felt when I first started dating….

  44.  #44Waterfall on May 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    I am feeling sad, feeling like I’ll never have these feelings for anyone like D again. I’m facing the rejection but it just feels like a big, fat empty void in my life.
    I keep going over it, and going over it and there is so way I can ever see it working out between us. In truth he is only half interested in me. He is only interested because he is lonely, and not because he is love with me. I would always be feeling insecure with him. Not good enough. Not noticed enough. Not engaged with enough. Yet, why do I miss him so much? Is it because he pulled me close, and yet pushed me away at the same time and that this combination has taken a toxic effect on me. I feel completely under his power and under his spell. And the more that I see him, the harder and harder it seems to be to stop thinking about him and yearning for him. I know I am yearning for his undivided time and attention. I feel like a dog waiting for some precious attention from it’s master, and even though I know this I don’t seem to be able to get out from under the spell. I feel like I have been sucked deeper, and deeper in and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it…

  45.  #45Millie on May 5, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Labbit 41–

    No I don’t feel that way at all!!! I love feeling seen and hearing what others perceive in my writing! I welcome comments from you and anyone else feeling compelled to comment!

    I hear you on going with the flow and not setting rules… But that’s what I did with M, I went with it because it felt right!!! And look what happened… Truthfully I’m shifting from the “missing him” phase to feeling some anger. Not at him, but at the situation. I know it’s pointless, but I’m feeling it. I know anger is a secondary emotion that happens as a result of being hurt. Me making rules is an effort to protect myself. Being in the moment sounds great until the next moment you find yourself with regrets. I don’t know… I know this feeling will pass as with most.

  46.  #46Mandy on May 5, 2015 at 6:18 pm

    Thanks Emerson, Azure Blue and Lovetodance…

    I got winded just walking up the hill today but the breeze felt nice…

    So now I have an old friend wooing me. He said if he gets out of his current situation (live-in relationship) he’s going to come snatch me up and there’s nothing I can do about it. Well, I like the sound of that…

    Men who don’t quite take what they want really do end up annoying me. The ones who say hey, this is how it’s going to be and it’s going to be awesome…those ones really know how to fan the flames for me…

    But so now I’m basically thinking about this friend of mine in ways I haven’t before and I can tell he really wants to grab onto the chandelier hanging above this party and swing over to me…

    I told him today a feeling message and he straight up told me he wanted to go to bed together because I said it. That’s really not something I’m used to. I didn’t know feeling messages could go straight in that direction with a certain type of man.

    But I’m confused because we’re connecting sexually, and Rori advises against only connecting with him sexually, which has always been my problem. I think we know each other well enough to where we care even if there’s nothing going on. But I have to watch my libido especially now since I feel like a starved chihuahua on a porkchop, lol…oh boy. I risk making myself look awfully funny…

  47.  #47Zia on May 5, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Lovergirl – I know that there was a payment plan option for the complete collection back when I got it a couple of years ago, might be worth checking out if thats still the case? That’s what I did 🙂

  48.  #48Indigo on May 5, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Waterfall 44,

    From everything I have read about your situation, it seems as if D did NOT reject you, in actual fact he had quite strong feelings for you – but he did tell you in no uncertain terms that he cannot give you what you want. Can you see that you feeling rejected by that is just you punishing yourself? It has nothing to do with you. And continuing to yearn for what he cannot give you is also just you punishing yourself. Acceptance is a vital step here – and it actually feels so wonderful.

  49.  #49Indigo on May 5, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    So, question ladies:

    Would you respond to a text from an ex (whom I have no interest in) which says simply “Hey”.

    My instinct is No. And I haven’t responded. This is a guy I dated for a few weeks, he was great right in the beginning, and then started to flake out and then I got a drunken phone call from him one night saying he wasn’t ready for a real relationship and I broke up with him with no regrets. He was a few years younger than me and very good looking, and no loss to me. But ever since then he has contacted me kinda regularly. At one point he asked me for a friends with benefits set up but only wanted to watch movies and cuddle. I have no emotional investment or attachment to this man whatsoever.

    Why is he showing up in my life? Pretty sure I threw this fish back. Maybe it’s just more reminders of what Labbit said – keep leaning back, focusing on me, my life and my feminine joy.

  50.  #50Azure Blu on May 5, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    Mmmmm… It feels to me like you have made your decision about this ex…
    There was nothing there to begin with…
    What could have changed? Especially if all he can come up with is Hey…
    Maybe the lesson here is
    “I deserve a whole lot MORE!!!”
    You beautiful, sexy, smart, kind, warm hearted Siren!

  51.  #51Waterfall on May 6, 2015 at 12:26 am

    Indigo – 48 – yeah, you are right. I just feel so confused and befuddled about the whole thing. One minute I am adamant he is completely wrong for me, and then I feel a surge of massive yearning and loneliness and I reach out to him.

    I woke up with morning in a sea of sereneness knowing that he didn’t reject me, that he did love me, and I just lay there and basked in that feeling of love, and affection. I felt really thankful for what he has given me and my heart melted and I have just gone about my day with this wonderful loving feeling.

    I lay in bed and gave myself and virtual cuddle and I smiled to myself. It felt nice to give myself some space and some tranquility.

  52.  #52Victoria on May 6, 2015 at 12:26 am

    Let me tell you a story.
    There was a guy I had a FWB with a few years ago.
    I did not even like him or anything, but I got to having this with him because he was 10 years younger and I was just curious. If I was his age, I would have never dated him, I did not find him attractive enough (mostly because he was balding), but somehow at the time I had it in my list of things to do before I die, to sleep with someone much younger.
    (On I side note, now I am old enough that a 20-years younger will no longer be illegal, hehehe).
    Anyhow, I stopped seeing him after a while because the s*x was ok but he was totally uninteresting otherwise. If it seems I think too much like a man, I know I do :-). Anyhow, after I stopped seeing him, he would for years, once in a while, send me a “hey” message. Based on what I had with him, I am sure he did it because he was kind of horny, and always though of me as an easy lay (which I am only when i want to). I never responded, and I think he was getting pissed, because the last messages I was getting from him no longer said “hey” but said “S*x?”.
    So I blocked his number because I find it quite annoying at the end.

  53.  #53Indigo on May 6, 2015 at 4:27 am


    You make me laugh! Our exes could almost be the same person except that this guy of mine was very good looking. Probably why I went out with him to begin with as we ran out of conversation after 2 dates ie. he has no personality. Ever since I broke up with him he messages me periodically “hi” or similar. One drunken night he showed up at my gate. When he messaged me asking if I wanted to do FWB I temporarily agreed as I was going through a low patch/break from D. But I could not understand it as we only had sex once and that was initiated by me. The second time I decided to completely lean back and he made no move on me, just wanted to cuddle. The one and only time we had sex was much like the rest of his personality… totally uninteresting.

    Azure Blu – I think you’re quite right. No response required.

  54.  #54Indigo on May 6, 2015 at 4:28 am


    You make me laugh! Our exes could almost be the same person except that this guy of mine was very good looking. Probably why I went out with him to begin with as we ran out of conversation after 2 dates ie. he has no personality. Ever since I broke up with him broke up he messages me periodically “hi” or similar. One drunken night he showed up at my gate. When he messaged me asking if I wanted to do FWB I temporarily agreed as I was going through a low patch/break from D. But I could not understand it as we only had sex once and that was initiated by me. The second time I decided to completely lean back and he made no move on me, just wanted to cuddle. The one and only time we had sex was much like the rest of his personality… totally uninteresting.

    Azure Blu – I think you’re quite right. No response required.

  55.  #55Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 5:24 am

    7 – Mandy, you can definitely feel emotionally drained and therefore potentially depressed from sickness. Yes! Our bodies and our minds aren’t two different things as we often suppose. It is all part of the emotional system. That’s why when we do physical things like “leaning back” and relaxing our body, it helps in emotionally in our relationships : )

    It’s right to love your feelings. It could be a message that it’s time to give your body some rest : )

    Hope you feel better!

  56.  #56Millie on May 6, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Indigo– I had an ex like that too! We would be on and off and then without fail after a period of no contact he would pop up again saying random comments that really required no response at all. I bought into it for awhile thinking — oh he’s thinking of me! And treated like him wanted to get back with me. Yeah I’m sure he did… I was fun. But we always got stuck in the same place and the cycle repeated. Point being texts like that– we sirens don’t have time for! Haha 🙂

  57.  #57Lovergirl on May 6, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Indigo 49-

    I would not respond to a hey text unless I was interested in rekindling something. I have guys that I don’t respond to at all that text and email me like that for years. It’s very hard for men to get hints that you aren’t interested, so I wouldn’t encourage him unless you just want the attention. Others, they will say “hey” and you say “hey” back and then they just disappear. It’s like they just want to see if you are still an option.

  58.  #58Lovergirl on May 6, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Speaking of, I had the funniest thing happen the other day. I got a new phone and went through and deleted like half my contacts. I figured I’d get rid of any men I didn’t think I would ever hear from again.

    I kid you not, that very day, I got an email on Plenty of Fish from a guy I had a one night stand with like 3-4 years ago and had just deleted from the phone. I didn’t respond because the reason it was a one night stand was that he started acting super possessive and started talking about how I’d better not see any other men now and pinned me against the wall when I was trying to leave his house after sex. He was a really big guy and a football coach and it was a little scary.

    Anyhow, I didn’t respond and he’s sent me like 3 emails now over the past couple of days. :p So glad he doesn’t know where I live!

  59.  #59Lovergirl on May 6, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Also on the topic of men who send one word messages, I get soooo annoyed when I give a guy my phone number off a dating site and a couple of emails and then the texts are things like that. I realize they may just not know what to say, but this guy yesterday has me rolling my eyes.

    I feel like I’m talking to someone with no brain. I ask who is this and he tells me his name. He’s like “hey” and I’m like “hi” and then I say do you have a face pic for my phone? He said “sure”.

    Later I get a text saying “hello”. I say “hi” and it just goes on like this!! One word conversations! There is no way I want to meet up with him now.

  60.  #60waterfall on May 6, 2015 at 8:50 am

    sirens I’m loving this conversation about the hey texts..
    I have experienced them too, and thankfully they have gone nowhere because I just play dumb and play them at their own game. Like “Hey, I’m great – just off to meet my boyfriend who’s taking me to so and so…” hehe! They soon disappear…

    I do agree though, men don’t often get the message, but then Rori does say to stay open which is in all honesty a totally new experience for me. I guess I have the ‘no expectation’ approach (although my heart may say otherwise !! ). In truth I try and remain open & curious…

    I do see it all as good practise. Maybe practice in saying no and walking away, but I tend to not stay silent. Maybe if the guy was a creep then I would. I do try and embrace the free therapy approach and stay open.

    Well, I haven’t met anyone for any dates yet. I wonder if that will come…? It would be nice to meet someone and I love going on first dates and having that pre-date jitters etc..

    Maybe I get a bit addicted to it all being shiney and new. Maybe when I properly get to know someone then the sparkle wears off…

  61.  #61waterfall on May 6, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Lovergirl – 59 – Yeah, I can relate to the ‘going nowhere’ convo!! I have experienced that on so many occasions and I’m left feeling like ‘meh…’ So much hard work.

    him: How are you?
    me: Good, just been doing so and so etc etc how are you…?
    him: Okay

  62.  #62Indigo on May 6, 2015 at 10:01 am


    About the one word conversations… I’ve used it as an opportunity to use feeling messages because I have nothing to lose. I say “I feel bored with this”. They usually snap to and say “Why?? what do you want to do instead?”

  63.  #63Victoria on May 6, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    I have not seen F. for a few days, and even though we talked every day, I am sooooo tempted to call him again.
    I know I should relax, do something else, allow him to miss me, but I miss him so much… I am not going to call him or anything, I just need to vent a little bit.
    I also keep thinking how good looking he is… I am thinking that for the first time in my life I am dating someone who is both drop-dead gorgeous and very intelligent. He is actually both better looking and more intelligent than anyone else I have dated, let alone be that in a combination. Of course, he is also phlegmatic, forgetful, disorganized, but now because i miss him, I am thinking only of his wonderful qualities… And, he keeps telling me that I am the most beautiful woman on earth… Nobody before him has ever said that… Ugh, I miss him.

  64.  #64Margaret on May 6, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    Azure Blu

    I am 36. I want to lean back but, I miss him so much. I don’t know what to do if he contacts me again. If he ever does…

  65.  #65Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    AzureBlu 36!! Yeah!!!! Was it your bday recently, too?

  66.  #66Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    So, I realized I had missed a few responses from my post a few threads back, and I just went back and read them. Wow!! Ladies, so helpful.

    It occurs to me today that I really am the problem. I AM leaning forward. And it doesn’t seem to me at the time that I am being “low value.” But that is the end result. What happens is that I crave the connection so much, that I just do it sometimes…(but not all the time. Sometimes he leans out to me, too).

    But today…ugh. Today he texted me in the morning. Just a simple good morning. So I responded. He didn’t get back to me for a while. So I said hi again while I was on the subway (yeah, ok, so I did lean forward there. I felt like I was still responding to his hello…). Anyway, we were having this charming conversation. Then I asked if I could tell him something. He said sure. So then I did my best to convey my feelings, but I don’t think it was the best. I think somewhere in there, I made him wrong. I was attempting to show him appreciation. But I think it was wrong, because really a want a result: I want him to contact me more.

    And as I went through my day, I realized, “This is just not going to work.” He might still like me. But praising these qualities isn’t really going to get him to do what I like more (ideally, it should. But in this case, I just know that it won’t – because it hasn’t so far). I feel tempted to just up and tell him that I really need to receive more communication from him in order to feel loved and special and goddessy and brilliant and all of that. But the thing is, I have communicated PLENTY. We have had numerous conversations about this. And in every case, he listens to me, and he says that he gets it, and I feel good when we’re chatting. But then his follow up – even though it’s there – is a little bit less than I would like. And he is expert at telling me the reasons WHY he cannot contact me, and xyz. But he hasn’t made the extra effort. Some effort. But not exactly what I am looking for.

    But even to reach out and tell him that I want to see other people, or that his lack of communication is causing me to feel disconnected and less “in love” than I was before…well, even to do that would be leaning forward. And I have leaned forward enough, as we all know. Bunches and caboodles. And by now, I may well have pushed him away. To my long email, he didn’t respond. It didn’t even show up that he had read it.

    So for right now, I am going to practice making up good stories. For example, there is probably a good reason. Maybe the power went out. Maybe he got caught up with meetings at work. Maybe He’s thinking about it, and he really wants to respond, he’s just not sure how.

    And in the mean time, I have only one solution for myself: I have to start dating other people. He’s made it clear, through his actions, if not his words, that I am not top priority to him. He hasn’t committed to me. He hasn’t asked me for a commitment, other than to “wait for him.” But he’s not even promising at this point that he will come back.

    And I might be moving to a new city, too. I might be embarking on a whole new adventure, which means if or when he comes back to the States, I might not even be here, and we would still be doing long distance.

    I told him that if that is the case, or if he never comes back from India, I would still love him. That is true. My gut tells me is a good person. That’s why I love him in the first place. But I don’t feel like the princess/queen with him right now that I want to feel like in my ideal relationship. And if I don’t feel like that now, how is that going to change if I just hang on?

    So my solution is, I have to see other people, and I haven no obligation to reach out and tell him about this. Since he isn’t making the moves to call me every day. Since he isn’t asking to speak with me even every week, how can I know he will be there for me when I want/need him the most? If I want to talk to him, I have to make a really big deal of it. If I say I’m very upset, then he’ll make time for me. Otherwise, he will say he is too busy. This week, he normally texts me after he got home, and then we video chat. This week, he didn’t even text me to say he had arrived. I waited a few days for him to contact me, and then he said that he didn’t because he was tired and had a headache. Which is BS. Because even if it’s true, if he cared, then he would have texted me to let me know.

    Ladies, I am not feeling this. I mean, I do love him. But I am not going to convince him of anything. I’ve been chomping at the bit to tell him this, and that I need to walk away, because I really need more. But also, it’s within my prerogative and my rights to simply start looking at other options, because from where he’s sitting, he just doesn’t seem to have the resources or the interest to provide me with what I need.

    All I need now is the strength not to reach out and articulate all this to him. I actually said I was going to write him an email. But I’m not going to do it.

    I’ve leaned forward a whole lot in this relationship. I’ve basically been the man, and I’ve probably robbed him of that opportunity. I do believe and trust that all the things he has told me about himself and his situation are true. And yet I still feel like, “Bullsh*t. If you really wanted to talk to me, then you would not think twice about getting up early to do so, to make it easy on me. You’ve hardly done that, and only when it’s convenient. Only once did you make it a priority, and I had to ask like hell for it. NOT GOOD ENOUGH, buddy.”

    So I’ll say it to him here, but not to him in person: If you want me in your life, you are going to have to make more of an effort. This isn’t just about me. This is about our future family. If I am not a priority to you now, how is it that we are going to raise kids together? Are you going to leave me to do everything while you spend 20 hours a day working? I will never see you, the kids will be miserable. And what am I supposed to say to them? You will make excuses to me, and then I will have to turn around and make excuses to them about why they can never see daddy, and assure them that daddy exists, even though they have never seen him. And it will be terrible. That’s not the life I want. I love him so much, and I know he loves me, too. But that’s not how I want it to be. I respect that work is important to him. I can’t change that. It’s part of what makes him a man – and he does it so that he can support a family. He’ll be good at that some day. But to me, supporting a family, includes COMMUNICATION and being PRESENT with them as well. It’s not all about the money. If it were, then no one would ever care about seeing their parents. But children need to see their parents. It’s incredibly important. And I’m not interested in raising my kids with someone who is more invested in work than he is in the people closest to him.

    There. I said it. That’s how I really feel.

  67.  #67Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Maybe I should just put that last bit in an email…No! Listen to yourself! No, no, Tereana! Don’t do it!!!!!!

  68.  #68Beloved on May 6, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    I feel like…squee!
    My audio final was today and I nailed it. It’s been a week of…feeling so satisfied. Knowing I earned my grades, earned the respect I’m receiving, feels amazing. I know I put in just the little bit extra effort, asked a few people I trusted for advice, GOT some great advice, studied just that extra little bit, did just that little bit more that felt challenging and boring – and it’s paying off.
    I thanked one of the skills instructors for helping me with an audio mix that totally delighted my professor and he told me, my passion is one of the reasons he likes me so much 😀 Which of course made me feel all smiley.
    I also spent some extra time with another mix, and went to extra trouble to learn some new skills, set it up and listen to it over the PA, I even took a picture of and wrote down all of my volume levels for each track, and I felt kind of embarrassed when some of the other students were watching me set the levels I had written down. And, really, I did a little happy jump when it played. It sounded great. Another student told me my mix was his favorite. I felt SO good about it!

    I was also reflecting on stuff in the household.
    In another class, I’m Master Electrician for the event we are hosting Friday, and I feel grateful and happy that I was assigned that position. My prof KNOWS it’s what I want, and I’ve learned SO much by being in charge and needing to make the decisions. Lots of details that were a mystery to me are suddenly making a lot more sense, now that it’s just me and a crew of 3 instead of 15 of us all trying to do stuff at the same time. I feel so happy and satisified.

    Yesterday I realized that TG probably felt whatever he felt about me not texting him back right away because he was imagining I was thinking negative stuff about him. He didn’t like that I didn’t want to respond while I felt angry and…meh. Good. So what? He doesn’t have to like it. I handled it in a way I feel certain was perfect. 😀 This feels like, this is it, this is intimacy. I have arrived, and it is good, lol.

  69.  #69Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    Do you know..his silence is actually a blessing.

    It’s giving me space to realize and truly notice how little he is giving. And how small his resources are – at least at the present moment – of what he can offer me in terms of lifting up my happiness. Maybe this is hard on him, too. I am sure it is. Maybe he wants to do “more.” But the fact is, I believe he can, even from where he is. And he’s not. So…

    But I have to take care of myself. I have to do my own thing. If he’s not going to be there for me, I can’t make him. No amount of convincing will do that, for him or me.

    I have to take action to take care of myself, and that’s the only solution.

    I feel a certain amount of peace, thinking this way…

    There is no judgment of him or me. It just is.

  70.  #70Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    So there’s this term I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. It’s called “cute aggression.” This describes that thing where you see a cute baby or an animal, and you just want to nibble its ears or something. This is cute aggression.

    But then I think of it another way.

    Because I’ve been struggling with accepting my “aggressive” side. I am most of the time pushing it/her down, and trying to be “less” aggressive. Because people are always like, ‘You’re too aggressive,’ or, “She’s so bossy.” And aggression is not seen as acceptable as a woman. So it’s very frequent we are told to keep that under wraps. And yet this has done me (and lots of women) a disservice – we end up being “too nice” because we fear being seen as “too aggressive.” And yet we suffer, because we feel like no one “respects us.” But the fact is, we are not respecting ourselves, because we don’t let our full selves out.

    All the amazing women I respect and look up to are totally in line with their “aggression.” And yet they are not aggress-IVE. They just allow this part of themselves to be acceptable TO THEM, and therefore they become assertive and forthright, and they are not concerned with what other people are thinking about them – they are concerned with whether or not they are making choices that honor their boundaries/morals/values/sense of self.

    And that’s what I aspire to.

    “Cute aggression” – in this case, could also mean, you look so cute when you are being “aggressive.” Instead of “aggression” taking on a mean and scary aspect, you can be totally you, totally feminine, totally cute, adorable, and beautiful, and still make use of your skills to get your needs met. If it’s “aggression” it comes in a form that suits YOU, and doesn’t look like someone else’s idea of whatever it is they think it should be. So you get aligned with yourself, you get your needs met, you don’t lie down and let other people walk over you. Because you are so darn cute. How could a cute person let that happen? No way, they couldn’t. That’s Cute Aggression….2.0

  71.  #71Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Beloved, what are you studying? It sounds so cool and awesome!!

  72.  #72Millie on May 6, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Tereana 67– 🙂

  73.  #73HeartBeat on May 6, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    Today’s lesson: I feel excited! I spontaneously made a new boundary today out in the field, (victory dance in the end zone!), it felt really good, I feel happy to have it near me 🙂

    + Maximum amount of time allocated to a man running late- 15 minutes, then, get out of house with enjoyable backup plan.
    + If he doesn’t contact me to tell me he’s running late, I’ve waited a reasonable amount of time and I’m starting to feel dodgy – Get out of the house and execute backup plan!
    If he calls/texts asking where I am:
    “I feel angry and sad waiting and not knowing what’s happening, I don’t like how it feels, so I don’t do it.”
    I want to feel relaxed, I don’t want to force myself to pretend to be okay with lateness when I hate it.
    Having this script in my pocket feels like such a relief, I don’t feel furious and distraught, I feel bigger.

  74.  #74Tereana on May 6, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    So…I almost forgot one more detail. I am totally PMS-ing right now.

    What that means is…

    I am more likely to “lean forward” (in any situation) and to be more aggressive, whether it’s to get what I want, or to push away what I don’t want

    I am moody

    My opinions get stronger and bigger

    I’ll cry for no reason

    Or I’ll cry for lots of reasons

    I can swing from one side of any spectrum to the other, whether it’s emotions or thoughts

    And I get trigger happy – triggers are stronger, and I’m more likely to react.


    Amazingly, I’ve been holding it together at work pretty well. Some of the ladies still don’t treat me well, and although I’m not sure I handle it great, I am getting much MUCH better at not taking it personally. And staying more calm as well.

    But when it comes to relationships…this is when I am most likely to push someone away and/or make an ultimatum.

    I’ve been telling myself, almost like a mantra: ultimatums don’t work. Ultimatums don’t work…

    They’ve never worked for me. And my other ex from last year is a reminder of that. Him I liked, too. And I wished that he would act in a different way. I said, “Please act like x, or we can break this off.” He said, “OK, let’s break this off.” Not exactly the desired outcome, but I had to take it, because that was the deal I’d made. And then of course, I was not happy.

    So I thought about doing something similar with V, but then I remembered, Ultimatums do not work…instead I can do my own thing. I do not need to ask. I can keep my options open because that is my right, if he’s not treating me the way he should.

    AND…at the same time, I just had a beautiful, lovely moment. I reminded myself also that there are times when we are loved and we cannot feel that love in the immediate moment. But that does not mean it does not exist. And I also really felt my feelings of missing him and feeling connected to him, and just wanting him near, and the pureness of that feeling. That desire. And I held it and sat with it. And I even really felt as if his presence was right there with me, even though I couldn’t see him, and it was very comforting. It’s nice to even just think about.

    So..I know that I’m scared. I’m uncertain. I don’t know what to expect.

    But that’s what Rori encourages us to do, right? Embrace the Soup. Welcome chaos and not-knowing. And be able to sit in that and be in that without reaching out, trying to know, controlling, or “doing” anything. Maybe not even to make a decision.

    Instead, I am thinking about school. How am I going to make that happen? And about how happy I will be when it DOES happen. And how will I move there? And making cute aggressions to make this all possible…that’s what I can do for me.

    I’m loving myself up. I’m really special. I deserve the best. I can give myself the best. All I need is to give myself the best of me…and the rest will be fine.

  75.  #75Millie on May 6, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    UGHHHH I’m so upset. I was going to the fabric store and I saw my ex-guy driving on the opposite side of the street. It was so unexpected! Seeing him…him…just sent my body into the shakes and brought up all this emotion. I wanted to focus on what I needed to do and then this disrupted everything. Unfortunately we work and live in proximity to each other, so it’s bound to happen that we pass each other. Ugh, this whole thing just makes me mad. And I hate that it makes me mad. I hate that I care. Oh can I love my anger? Can I love my shakiness? My on the verge of tears? I don’t want to feel this way. I don’t want to have that reaction. In fact, I don’t even want to see him. I’m just venting–and I know everything I’m saying is so not in line with sirendom, but I don’t care right now. The longer the space continues, the more I feel like wow he really just didn’t want to be with me. And I know I shouldn’t take it personal, but I DO. Was it that bad, that you had to just get out like that? Was it so intolerable that this is what you needed to do? Just dip like that? After everything we’ve experienced and felt together…. Ugh I just can’t seem to let it go. It’s upsetting to me. It’s hurtful. It’s so incongruent to everything else. I’m mad. I’m really mad. I know I shouldn’t be– I should be like “I trust him to do what he needs to do and he’ll figure it out one way or the other” and “he’s just not right for me, but mr. right is out there.” But I don’t feel like that right now. I don’t even care how unsireny I’m being right now. I impose all these thoughts on myself, this attitude “I should have” to put the energy off of him. But the truth is my energy is still on him because I’m still feeling angry and hurt and beating myself up–which I know I shouldn’t but old habits die hard. I feel like a loose bullet in a room bouncing off the walls, but it’s my anger and emotion bouncing around inside me. No way am I going to reach out to him in effort to release it. No f-ing way. So I write here, I talk to my family…I try to get that energy out of me. I want it out, I really do. I don’t want to see him, I don’t want to unexpectedly see him driving. I don’t want to even know he exists anymore. That means I have to go out of my way to take a different route or not go to the places in the proximity, which is doable, except that the fabric store is like two blocks from his apt and I’m a designer–so yeah I need to go there. And there wasn’t any parking so I didn’t even get to do what I needed to accomplish. ARGH. Part of me misses what we had, misses him, feels like he’s my man, and this feels so wrong, but the other part of me is like f-him, this is stupid. I wish I felt indifferent to the whole thing, and I’m sure I’ll get there in time, but that day is not today. I’ve been working so hard on changing my vibe, but at the end of the day all these feelings and emotions still exist in my body. I guess I can’t rush myself to get to the place I want to be at now. It can’t happen overnight, but I want it to. I want him back, but at the same time I don’t! I just worry that this is going to happen with every man I date and it causes me to not believe them. I didn’t believe him when I first met him. I was like– oh he’s just infatuated. It’s too fast for him to say I love you and really mean it. I kept waiting for the withdrawal, but it didn’t happen so I let myself fall and believe it. Which is fine, but I feel like going forward, I’m not going to believe anything a guy says or does means anything real until there’s a ring on my finger. But even then, men can leave at any time, without any communication. It’s so scary. I don’t want to be this shut down person that thinks negatively in all situations, but these repeated blows are really making me think that I’m better off keeping my trust and emotions at bay. Maybe what this is really telling me is how unskilled I am at coping with rejection. I don’t have the life skills to handle it, so each one is like this huge blow to my self-esteem. I have to develop the skills. Just like the lean back skills and communications skills. I’m clearly on a rant….on a huge vent, so keep that in mind.

  76.  #76Indigo on May 6, 2015 at 9:15 pm


    It’s not such a huge vent… I have thought every one of those thoughts myself.

    For me, I am coming more and more to the conclusion that getting the things we want in life – a great job, a beautiful house, a wonderful relationship – is a matter of timing more than anything else. I mean, of course we have to keep our sights set on those things, and keep putting ourselves in situations where those things can find us, but what I believe is that when we are ready for those things, truly ready, and when those things are ready to find us, they will. For me, this is a very comforting belief, and one I truly feel is true, and it makes me feel more relaxed about my life.

    I am 33, and only now do I have a job that feels perfect in so many ways. I struggled for absolute years in jobs that felt off, didn’t suit me, were with horrible people, made me miserable etc. etc. etc. Why couldn’t I have just KNOWN what I needed and wanted in a job 10 years ago? Well, it’s taken me this long and I’m here now and it’s just the way that it is.

    I have only recently bought property… many of my friends bought property years ago. But… it’s taken me this long and that’s the way that it is, and I love the place I’ve bought.

    As for my relationship… I’m not there yet. There are many things that don’t quite feel right and the commitment is not there. But… I trust that I will in time, when I am truly ready, it will happen, and it will probably take a lot longer than for other people or what people think it should take, but I just know it will be right for ME. I trust this will happen. I know it will. I can’t force this, on the world, other people, or myself. It just has to happen when it’s time.

  77.  #77Andrea on May 6, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Millie!!! Oh Siren Goddess of ANGER!!!! Yes!!
    Anger is an emotion that is EXTREMELY Sireny!

    Yeah! Be Angry! This guy is a real prick!!! He told you one thing, he led you on, he even asked you for a commitment, and he was talking about marriage. YOU ARE THE NORMAL ONE!!!!!!!!!

    Unfortunately, you got involved with a person who just doesn’t have it all together yet. And Anger is NORMAL and SIRENY.

    I want to add to this a quote I read by the man who wrote “He’s Just Not That Into You”.. Greg.. (something)

    He said, “Do you know what a man who is absolutely in love with you would NEVER do? He would never leave you hanging. Why do you want to waste energy on a man who doesn’t absolutely love you?”

    Millie!!! I wish I could send you my sexy six foot five football player to just make love to you, compliment you, let you know how sexy siren you actually are…. but not mess with your heart.

    Get Angry Girl!!!

  78.  #78Mandy on May 6, 2015 at 10:46 pm


    I love the Sirens. I want you Sirens to know how much I value you, your opinions, your FEELINGS…I respect you as fellow feminine women and I love how we support one another…it’s really is shelter from the storm a lot of times, and I hear ya, whether I remain silent or if I comment and I care too 🙂

    I intend to be very involved in conversation these coming days.


    Your sweet words always affect me positively 🙂 I feel so involved, into the conversations, not left out and cared for when we respond to each other…thank you sweetest Siren! 🙂 I’m still feeling cruddy but I think I’ll be fine when it runs it’s course.

    Dominique…I miss you 🙂 I love browsing your Siren beauty products 🙂 You are a great coach and I would love to have another email session soon 🙂

    Rori…I’ve been practicing,training with your tools, all of them at once, every day…the Rori Raye Dance pose…in through nose, breathe through vagina, let it all drop and release, unzip heart and even breathe with tongue out…oh it accesses my vulnerability so easily. VERY good tool… and it had helped me be real, authentic and peaceful yet boundary driven.

    CDing as well..that’s given me SO much confidence. I love hearing from men I like that I’m hot and they want to go that direction with me, it keeps me smiling and flirting 🙂 It’s just wonderful, and THANK you Rori, for keeping on with us shy girls to start CDing 🙂

    It’s a miraculous way of dealing 🙂

  79.  #79Waterfall on May 7, 2015 at 2:07 am

    Millie – 75 – Reading your post has triggered a sudden, enormous surge of anger in me!!
    Argh, it’s like a volcano erupting inside of me…
    Thank you for you post!!

    And Linda – Wow, thank you for your response to Millie’s post!! It feels amazing to liberate myself from my fears and insecurities around my anger. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

    Light bulb moment for me. I direct anger at a man if he rejects me. I cut him off, I cut him down. I f*king h*ate him!!!! I know this isn’t pretty, I know this isn’t sireny… but that is how I feel. And then I caught myself doing this and I realised…hmmm… what if I could turn this around… and wow, it felt so liberating too…!!! I realised that basically I was seeing all of the bad, and none of the good – I was throwing 2 years of a beautiful relationship away because of how it was ending. And I was choosing to direct my anger at him and he would have been picking up on this. And what’s worse was it was hidden anger with me, it was there below the surface, just raging inside of me, wanting to bubble over and explode.

    Wow, it will still bubble up, I know that. The sadness, and the anger and everything else besides… and I will just have to experience it. It is not going to go away because I know it is there. I will still feel sad, I will still feel lonely , I will still feel rejected, I will still feel like it was my fault, I will still blame me… I know all this isn’t going to go away because that is part and parcel of falling in love and opening myself up to all these emotions. I would not be human if I didn’t feel this sadness….

    But, and this is a big but… hopefully I will now know not to direct it at HIM. It is not about him, it is about me….

  80.  #80Indigo on May 7, 2015 at 2:44 am

    Oh Millie (and you too Waterfall), I just wanted to say

    I agree with Andrea’s post… anger is a beautiful emotion! Most people don’t think of it that way, they think of anger as dark and violent and destructive. I don’t. I think anger that is pushed underground and repressed and expressed in inappropriate ways can be destructive. But anger in its pure form is beautiful and honourable. It’s there to protect us. It won’t let anyone get away with bad treatment.

    Make friends with your anger. I love and appreciate the protective energy of my anger, and I’ve learned it. The other thing is we are often afraid our anger will run away with us and hurt someone but it won’t if we listen to what it is saying!

    I LOVE my anger!

  81.  #81Victoria on May 7, 2015 at 3:06 am

    On anger, I do not manage to feel anger very long.
    I have noticied that my anger very quickly turns into self-pity and in just being very upset and crying.

    This is something from my childhood, my father would do things to upset me (like say something rude) and I would be so angry, but because I was too small to dare to confront him, my anger quickly turned to being hearful and upset and crying hysterically.

    Which usually worked with him, he would melt down and start to apologize and try to comfort me.

    I still do this today, I wish I could learn to process my anger differently, and not be so easily crying.

  82.  #82Waterfall on May 7, 2015 at 3:10 am

    Hmmm… I am going to be brave a post some raw feelings that I wrote earlier. They don’t much make sense as it’s more a stream on consciousness, but reading it back.. I suddenly SEE patterns…

    “I felt like screaming it from the rooftop. And was it me? Why can’t he do a relationship with me?! Is there something wrong with me? Am I faulty?! Maybe he see’s some underlying weakness in me which repulses him from me…. And then I start feeling really tormented and angry and I want to lash out at him.. And in my twisted thoughts I think this will make him change his mind, I think if I have a go at him he will change his mind… And it all feels so futile because then he would only be changing his mind because I bullied him into it… Argh, I feel so confused too…

    But then I think how he’s really tried to make me happy. And I try to sink into those feelings and feel grateful for this. I feel grateful for the cuddles, for the time, and for the attention…and I realise I have to let him go and live his life because I need to be grateful for what he has given me and not ask for more…

    This makes me feel more at peace, more relaxed and more… well at least we had that… And I take a really deep breath… I know in some ways it seems like I’m accepting crumbs and this is the bit I wrestle with but sometimes I need to stay focused on the positive and not start arguing again with him in my head.

    Did I let him use me? Yes, probably. But he still was there for me. I need to focus on that and not feel so angry with him.

    The other day I noticed how I feel all this almost uncontrollable anger towards a man if he rejects me. I realised how that must be really unattractive!! It was like a light bulb moment, and it felt like it was me really showing my true colours to a man. Inside I laughed at myself. I laughed at how I was giving all my power away to these men.

    I know this won’t change overnight. H*ll it may never change at all, but at least when I catch myself doing it I am aware of it! I felt like screaming it from the rooftop. And was it me? Why can’t he do a relationship with me?! Is there something wrong with me? Am I faulty?! Maybe he see’s some underlying weakness in me which repulses him from me…. And then I start feeling really tormented and angry and I want to lash out at him.. And in my twisted thoughts I think this will make him change his mind, I think if I have a go at him he will change his mind… And it all feels so futile because then he would only be changing his mind because I bullied him into it… Argh, I feel so confused too…

    But then I think how he’s really tried to make me happy. And I try to sink into those feelings and feel grateful for this. I feel grateful for the cuddles, for the time, and for the attention…and I realise I have to let him go and live his life because I need to be grateful for what he has given me and not ask for more…

    This makes me feel more at peace, more relaxed and more… well at least we had that… And I take a really deep breath… I know in some ways it seems like I’m accepting crumbs and this is the bit I wrestle with but sometimes I need to stay focused on the positive and not start arguing again with him in my head.

    Did I let him use me? Yes, probably. But he still was there for me. I need to focus on that and not feel so angry with him.

    The other day I noticed how I feel all this almost uncontrollable anger towards a man if he rejects me. I realised how that must be really unattractive!! It was like a light bulb moment, and it felt like it was me really showing my true colours to a man. Inside I laughed at myself. I laughed at how I was giving all my power away to these men.

    I know this won’t change overnight. H*ll it may never change at all, but at least when I catch myself doing it I am aware of it!”

  83.  #83Kath on May 7, 2015 at 4:50 am

    Hey Sirens,

    I need to rant too!- R and I have now been seeing each other again for the past few weeks and he has told his children (adult) that we are seeing each other and they are very pleased for us. The thing is it is his daughter’s 30th birthday party on Saturday and she invited me. I had every intention of going on my own but now that her Dad and I are seeing each other again I kinda thought that he would plan for us to go together. Well, its now thursday lunctime and I have yet to hear anything from him about planning for Saturday!- I know his brother, sister, both sons and their partners and x-wife and his best female friend are also going to the party and I guess I have put it in my mind that this is a test for him to show me how serious he is for us to be together- Well I aint feeling it right now!- I have made a decision that if I don’t hear from him by tonight at the latest that I am not going to the party. Not through spite but because, a) he couldn ‘t be bothered to show me I was important to him enough to be there with him at his side and b) because I now have to go to see my osteopath and get my back clunked and that would take up the money I was going to spend on getting a taxi to and from the venue. Today I am very disappointed with R!!!!

  84.  #84Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 5:53 am

    Kath – ugh, what an awful feeling…

    Well, maybe he’ll get in touch at the last minute. At least you have a good self-care back up plan

    Sadly the daughter might want you there, and this complicated things. You could try talking to her? Or do what feels right to you.


  85.  #85Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Well, after I bared my soul yesterday and leaned forward, he never wrote back. Then this morning, he sent me another good morning text. I love it and it’s sweet. But it’s not what I really want. I want phone callz. Darnit.

    So today I didn’t even text back my usual smiley. My fingers are on strike…

  86.  #86Kath on May 7, 2015 at 6:01 am


    Thanks- I love your comment “my fingers are on strike”- love it!-
    Yes- he may get in touch at the last minute- but I feel its too late by then- I already feel let down and second best and not the special person to him I wanted to feel, such a shame he;s doing this again!

  87.  #87Dominique on May 7, 2015 at 7:08 am

    Mandy!!! 78 – <3 I would love to talk with you anytime you feel ready.

    Much love to you.


  88.  #88Victoria on May 7, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Let me share my experince: I have been looking for signs as to how important I am for him and have been making conclusions and driving myself nuts with it. It feels so much better to trust that he wants to be with you, will be happy to present you to the world as his girlfriend, and he is just clueless that you need all these signs… he will in fact take it as a sign of distrust that you need them.
    I am sure you would have a great time at the birthday party, if you could focus on pleasing the birthday girl and give up overthinking.

    I am sending you hugs and love!

  89.  #89Labbit on May 7, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Kath I feel much the same way as Victoria. Everything you say about wanting him to invite you, to make it clear you’re a priority and that he wants you by his side at the party as his guest…this all makes sense, I’d want the same. However I have learned that these are often ideal behaviors we make up for our men…often from things we saw or read as children…and the reality is that he might already think it’s clear you’d be there as his guest, together as a couple, without stating them.

    When I set TenderCD for expectations of knowing what I want and how I want it done, I nearly always end up disappointed. He can do 9 things right but if the 10th isn’t how I want it the temptation is there to get upset, silly as it sounds. What about using a couple of feeling messages with your man — letting him know how good it would feel to talk about the party, to be on his arm as his guest, etc. These thoughts may not have even occurred to him.

  90.  #90Labbit on May 7, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Millie & Waterfall, I LOVE reading about you processing your anger. I have totally felt the same in the past…that anger is ‘bad’ and should be stuffed down…and I agree that NO IT SHOULD NOT and in fact I think a big part of being a Siren is being in touch with that anger. It’s all about expressing it in a healthy way. NOT spewing it out onto those we love in an uncontrolled flood of emotion but feeling it, letting it inspire us, harnessing it if you will. Men often do that — harness their anger to propel them forward at work and in their lives, and I see no reason why we can’t do the same.

    Millie I would feel that SAME anger in your shoes passing by him. I can think of one ex, it’s been 5 years since we broke up, and I’d never want to be with him again, and yet I know that if I passed by him TODAY on the street I would feel such a rush of anger and hurt and pain. So what? It’s not like I’m going to corner him on the street, lash out at him or hit him (even if I want to). I would use that anger — light that fire in my belly and use it to make my life even better, treat myself so well, throw that energy into my passions!!!

  91.  #91Labbit on May 7, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Tereana it sounds like you are doing what is best for you at this time. I see no reason why you couldn’t tell this man, listen, I love you, I care for you, I feel so good with you…but at this time I don’t think this is workable for us. If, when you come home, our feelings are still the same, I hope we can pick up where we left off. For now I need to take care of myself and that means seeing who’s out there near me. My feelings for you have not changed and I’m going insane without regular touch, affection, intimacy. You can understand this, right?

    And I’m sure he would. If it is meant to be with this man it will be and you don’t need to stress out over it. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t be looking to see who is available near you. You deserve daily affection!

  92.  #92Lovergirl on May 7, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Indigo 62- That is a good idea! The guy called me on the phone yesterday and I wasn’t super friendly. I just felt annoyed.

    I have this thing where it just irritates me when guys ask me too many questions in the beginning or seem to be sizing me up for a relationship before we’ve ever met. I want to be the one to kind of kick back and decide about them, instead of vice versa, I guess.

  93.  #93Beloved on May 7, 2015 at 8:28 am

    This was a good reminder in the midst of all of the feelings that got stirred up in my interactions with my roomie.

    Other People’s Behaviour: Why do you want it to be about you?

    This is an excerpt, the full post is at:

    ….”If you have a pesky habit of taking the blame for other people’s behaviour as if you’re a master puppeteer and so influential that one false move can give you a special version of a person’s character specially reserved for “worthless” and “provoking” people, in some way, even if you don’t realise that you’re doing it, you’re blaming somebody somewhere for your own actions. On a conscious level you may be going, “Me, me, me, it’s all about me” but subconsciously, you may have a number of beliefs based around this idea that if this, this and this hadn’t happened and this person and that person had or hadn’t done something, you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing.

    That’s what takes away your options because focusing on the blame doesn’t really leave you with anything to do. You can’t change anything with it other than your state of mind and your ability to move forward.

    Blame is in its own way, a means of feeling important but also a way of remaining connected to a person and situation. When you keep beating you over the head with blame and almost objecting to reality and trying to move forward, it’s in part because you’ve made out as if this person was the centre of the universe and that special when you were with them, in the sense of defining them as being all-powerful in the relationship. They were seen in some way as being a source of esteem and validation or certainly now that things haven’t worked out, you’re assuming that they must be an authority when they’re just a human being not a higher power.

    In turn, because they’ve been glorified to an extent, this means that it can feel as if the sun has gone in and that you’ve been ‘downgraded’ because now that you’re taking the blame and making them out to be super-important, even if you didn’t see them this way before, it occurs to you that retrsopectively, they must have been more valuable than you. “

  94.  #94Beloved on May 7, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Tereana – I am getting my degree in Live Entertainment Technology. I’m most focused on being a theater/venue/lighting tech, and part of the program is also learning audio and video skills for live events (concerts, corporate events, fashion shows, receptions, etc.) I love working with power and the fixtures, and, it’s sobering going from clerical work to working with SOMETHING THAT COULD KILL PEOPLE OR BLOW UP STUFF! Sometimes I feel like…I am way too spacey to do this! And then I surprise myself with how capable I can be 😀

  95.  #95Femininewoman on May 7, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Kath I was reading and hoping you were gonna say you are going on your own and act totally surprised if you see him there.

  96.  #96Millie on May 7, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Andrea 77— oh I love the idea of being a goddess of anger! Like a Greek goddess, strong and fiery, burning men with her eyes. Haha! Yes I agree that a man who truly loved me would not do this…. But I actually disagree that he led me on. I beleive he was expressing himself authentically in the moment, but he was on a high. My gut feeling told me he was in a state of infatuation. I shared this with my mom that I was afraid to believe all of this, like it was too good to be true and she told it’s my fear talking and to trust him. Even my mom bought into it and she’s the wisest woman I know. So I don’t think he led me on…. I think something just changed. But how he handled it was indeed pricky!!!!!!

    I’m having the urge to reach out…. The urge to ask him what really happened on his end. To tell him I have some of his things… That I’d rather hear the painful truth of why he changed his mind….. But I can’t hear reaching out and not getting a response, so I won’t do it.


  97.  #97Indigo on May 7, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Labbit 90,

    I love this! “NOT spewing it out onto those we love in an uncontrolled flood of emotion but feeling it, letting it inspire us, harnessing it if you will. Men often do that — harness their anger to propel them forward at work and in their lives, and I see no reason why we can’t do the same.”

    I think of a fiery stallion – all that assertive energy and he turns it into beauty and grace and vitality.

  98.  #98Indigo on May 7, 2015 at 10:07 am


    Sorry, but I agree with Victoria and Labbit. When I read your post I found myself wanting to point you to Dominique’s articles on expectations (she has many, and I really think they will help you here). Expectations – where you set up in your mind for your man to do a particular thing and attach great significance to it if he DOESN’T do it – will get you disappointment 9 times out of 10.

    What Labbit says is so true – they get us focusing in on the one thing our man isn’t doing “right” rather than the many ways he may be showing his care and affection. The Siren way would be to communicate softly to him how much it would mean to you to go as a couple and can he help you out with this? But I would recommend – go for the BIRTHDAY GIRL, go for YOU, not for him. She is the one who invited you, this day is about her, remember? And you want to go because you want to be there for her, because you care for her.

    Making it mean something terrible and refusing to go – I’m sorry – just feels like a bit of drama to me. I agree that I would certainly want to feel like my man wanted me there with him, but I would say this is an opportunity to observe, not to go blazing in with expectations. You have not been back together very long, and your relationship has been shaky at best.

    I’m sorry, and I’m sending you ((hugs))

  99.  #99Labbit on May 7, 2015 at 10:51 am

    97 Indigo — YES! I get much the same image when I think of a man harnessing his anger or passionate energy, either a fiery stallion or a big black bull charging. 🙂

  100.  #100MovingMagic on May 7, 2015 at 11:46 am

    Kath, does he know that you’ve already been invited to his daughters party?

  101.  #101prplpsn28 on May 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    I am soooo far behind with the blog. I need to go back about 3 or 4 posts. But I just wanted to say that I really feel like giving up. I always seem to attract the non committal and/or have crap going on in their lives men. What am I doing wrong?! And then there’s H. He still keeps in contact. I really don’t know what to say about him. Blah

  102.  #102Beloved on May 7, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    I’m getting the ‘drop your expectations and beliefs’ experience with RoomieJ yet again.
    There is a drawer in the fridge that only she uses, some lettuce went to liquid, that she eventually did remove but left the slime. I asked her to clean it today, and she said she thought it was my stuff?
    Now, I can sit here and think, it takes a special kind of stupid…er…way of being in the world…to not even know what food is yours.
    (We are kind of like the odd couple, everything of mine is in one drawer or partioned out in containers, hers is kind of sprawling and all over the place.)
    I can believe that all day long and be mad about it, think awful things about her about it…be mad and judgey and believe I “shouldn’t have to ask” someone to clean up after themselves or the fridge, that she “should” know.
    Or, I can just accept, that for whatever reason, she just blanks. Now that I understand this about her, I will act accordingly.
    Now I’m realizing, she, for reasons I can not comprehend, probably didn’t realize that all of the crusty dishes that didn’t come clean in the dishwasher were hers. So I will take that into consideration if it comes up again.
    I also realize, that given her history of being bullied, she will probably be triggered again no matter how I approach her about anything and just know that going into and not worry about it, and work it out.

    None of it means anything about me.

    I am not picking up the crumbs and gross stuff that gets left on the counter and table (I clean up after myself and right away), and I feel some weird feelings around that. At the same time, I don’t want to feel like “mom” picking up after the kids. We are all adults here. I feel like I need to avoid getting into a habit of picking up stuff that I feel will irritate TG because I don’t want to put him in the position of “dad” who needs to be placated.

    I do other extra things around the house that I do feel comfortable doing. I feel that’s ok for now.

  103.  #103IamHis on May 7, 2015 at 4:27 pm

  104.  #104Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Beloved – that sounds f-ing awesome. You are rockstar!

    Labbitt: thanks for that. I believe I am doing the right thing for me. Which is leaning back. I don’t know if I’ll go so far as to get regular affection from another man. It’s not V’s fault he has to be away for so long. I don’t want to punish him. What I do want is for him to make more of an effort to make me feel loved, from afar. He may well feel that he misses me and loves me. But does he express this to me and let me know? Not much. I get the sense that what’s right in front of him captures his attention. His work. His parents. Whatever it is. I get it. I just don’t always want to be #3 on his plate.

    He says I’m important to him. But yet he made time to call his parents every single night when he was in the states. He would tell me to wait while he would dial up from a phone card and talk for about 5 minutes. He said it made his mom feel better if he called.

    Exhibit B is that he is not a morning person. Every once in a while, he will get up early because he has a phone meeting for work. But he never voluntarily offered to do this for me. He would say that he hates work. Abs that he could only talk to me in the morning when he gets up late. But this means that I have to stay up extra late to talk to him. Even if he got up early, it is still a compromise for me on my usual schedule. He got up early for me once, and that was last week. I was genuinely depressed, and I had been saying for a week that I needed to talk to him and he kept giving me reasons why he couldn’t. So he made out like he pulled out all the stops for me. But I don’t want that to be the thing that happens because I’m desperate. I want it to be the isual normal every day. Of COURSE he’s going to get up early to talk to me. Because that’s the only time he CAN talk to me, and he knows it. And he wants to talk to me, so he makes it happen.

    (Part 1)

  105.  #105Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    (Part 2)

    So what I’m doing basically is just not responding right now. Because I don’t have anything to say. I feel a bit bi*tchy. But honestly, that’s kind of what I’m going for. For my birthday, I will be a B.I.T.C.H. – babe in total control of herself.

    Because when I am leaning forward, trying to be “nice,” asking nicely for what I need and basically being ingratiating, nothing happens. I don’t get what I want. I just encourage him to do more of the same: be lazy.

    Now, I know that we are supposed to respond if/when he reaches out. But this can backfire, too. Because there is the concept of the “hollaback girl” for example. Some guys like to text or reach out to a woman just to see if she responds. If she does, it’s a power trip for him, because it means she is still “in his pocket.” It doesn’t work that way for women, becase if we reach out to him and he texts back, we feel at a loss. We want the conversation continue, but he might not care. So we keep going, leaning forward, giving energy…and losing our sense of control.

    What’s the ultimate in receiving? Letting the message come in without giving back. It doesn’t mean we don’t care. It just means we aren’t looking to restore the balance. It means we are comfortable with him giving more.

    Being that I have been giving so much…it feels good not to respond. I feel at peace.

    I could be playing a “game.” But if so, there is a purpose. Not to punish. Not tit for tat. I genuinely don’t feel inspired to respond. I don’t hear him asking for my time on the phone. And I thought to myself, “let him miss me.” Because he might already miss me. But not like I’ve missed him. He goes off on the weekends and I miss him like crazy, but all I hear from him is radio silence. He’s “busy,” so he doesn’t notice. Well, I’m “busy” now. Let him miss me while I go silent with no explanation. He probably doesn’t realize that this is how it has been for me. And it feels better to honor myself and my time and my dignity this way.

    I could go on like this.

    I feel zero interest in responding unless his next message to me is, “hey, want to talk by phone?” Then I’ll be interested….

  106.  #106Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    He’s been taking me for granted, is my point. I’ve been making myself available at his convenience, and he’s gladly accepted without question, but it’s draining to me. And that’s why I feel bad, but it’s not really his fault. I not only let him do it, I’ve been supporting and in some cases initiating it. So this way, I don’t feel mad. And I’m giving him ample space and time to step up his game.

    And I’m going to assume this is what he wants to do. Because he is a man, so he wants to “have game.” He wants to succeed. And he doesn’t want to lose…me

    : )

  107.  #107Dominique on May 7, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    Kath – In case you’re interested, here are some articles on expectations –

    Love to you.


  108.  #108Millie on May 7, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    Beloved 93–

    Thank you for posting this article!! I didn’t have time to read it earlier, but I just read it and wow do I hear the guilty bells ringing!! The idea that we blame ourselves in order to keep connected to the situation is soooo true!!! I am having a hard time letting go because I choose to continue beating myself up and going through every detail looking for what I did for him to feel like he needed to leave. The more I comb it–the more details I think of where that could have been it–or THAT could have been it…it’s endless really!!! If I had the courage to stop doing that, to let go of blaming myself, how much room would there be for my mind to focus on other things, to have energy in different places. A LOT! Great article–thank you again for sharing it!

  109.  #109Millie on May 7, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    Tonight I am fighting the urge to text him. I have something of his–and I’m fighting the urge to ask him if he wants it back. So I sent the text to myself…
    Reality is–if he wanted it, he’d ask for it. I can’t make myself throw it away yet and what is it that I really want from texting him?? I want to talk. I want questions answered. I’d be hiding behind some stupid thing to get him to talk to me, and that’s really sad!! And he is smart enough to know, if he answers that text, there will be more texts. It’s not about the item in question…it’s about so much more! And what if he did say yes he wanted it- mail it or leave it in a bag outside. How would I feel then? Ugh, why CAN’T I let this man go?! In short, because he made me FEEL SO GOOD. The waterfall of love was pouring like never before until it stopped. That’s why I can’t let it go… felt so right and so great. I just can’t deal with the reality and I know I have to. UGHHHHH

  110.  #110Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    Beloved – was that you? That baggage reclaim article: SO Good. OMG that’s my life. To a T. Holy crap. And she nailed it on the head. It was perfect. Thank you for posting!!

  111.  #111Tereana on May 7, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    Millie – I have been there!!! I once did that exact thing. I “innocently” asked my ex to come pick up his stuff. He agreed and I was so excited to just see him. I secretly hoped that when he saw me, it would change his mind and he’d reconsider. Not so much. he didn’t even want to sit down snd talk. It crushed me. But he was just being authentic. I, on the other hand, was not….

  112.  #112Millie on May 7, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    Tereana– yup!! That’s why I’m texting a bunch of other guys from online dating rather than him! I don’t want to do that I’ll just be disappointed. Thank you for sharing your story 🙂 xo

  113.  #113Emerson on May 7, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    Thanks sirens for your replies and comments and hugs!!
    I’m feeling better, I’ve been exercising every day and even tho I was feeling down today, I am ok. My mom reminded me that it’s a full moon and I’m always affected by that. I feel on edge and just off in general. High energy but not in a good way. Honestly I blame the moon haha… Well exercising helps to channel that energy and and I’ll be doing my first half marathon next year!

  114.  #114Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 12:27 am


    I really admire the progress I’ve seen in you since I’ve been reading the blog. Your posts from this thread suggest you are so much more in touch with what you want, stronger on the inside.

    Long distance relationships are always tricky, because you have to make up for the lack of time spent in each other’s company with communication – text, phone calls, emails etc. I sometimes think some people in long distance relationships don’t understand that, and maybe that is what is going on with V, and you are understandably feeling insecure and disconnected. Men can always do with less communication than we can.

    Something to consider – and it’s something *I* had to consider because I’ve chosen a man who doesn’t communicate as much as others – if you could have the daily phone calls and texts and a man who wanted to spend lots of time with you, would you want it? I only ask because we sometimes choose these more distant relationships because we’re not ready for more, or deep down don’t want more. Just a thought, feel free to discard if it doesn’t resonate.

  115.  #115Labbit on May 8, 2015 at 3:11 am

    Emerson that’s so exciting to hear — that you’re training for a half-marathon!!! I did my first one of 2015 a few weekends ago and there are few experiences that compare. Training for a half has taught me so much about how I’m stronger inside than I thought I was, mental and emotional resilience, the external validation I seek, and how GOOD it can feel when you accomplish something that you thought was impossible. (I’d been overweight as a child and wasn’t very good at most sports, so the idea of ME running a half as an adult is something 13-year-old me and anyone who knew her would have LAUGHED at.)

    It has absolutely made me a better dater. And it’s really fun!!

  116.  #116Azure Blu on May 8, 2015 at 5:13 am

    Labbit #115
    Wow!!! Congrats on the Half Marathon!!!
    Sounds like YOU are feeling proud as well!!

    Ahhh… what hard exercise can bring to us mentally AND emotionally!!!
    Ok… I’m going to do my morning work out…
    Thanks for the extra push!

  117.  #117Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 5:17 am


    About the full moon… plenty of people dismiss the effects of it but here’s something to consider: 3 out of the 4 fights D and I have had this year have been 3 days before the full moon (and the fourth one I can’t check because I don’t know exactly when it was, but I have a fair idea it was pretty close to one.)

  118.  #118Victoria on May 8, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Please consider this: 10 out of 10 fights I have had with F. were exactly 1 week prior to my period, i.e. I have a very bad PMS!
    By the way, the female cycle is 28 days just like the moon cycle, so, there could be something truly physiological there.

  119.  #119Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 5:49 am

    Indigo – thank you! It’s cool that you can see progress. I guess that’s the idea. Maybe not an endpoint. Just movement and shifts and adjustments.

    Right now, I feel in a state of suspended animation. On the one hand, I love him, and this leads to a real and justifiable sense of wanting to feel the connection more.

    I guess one thing I can do is “feel” the connection, even when he is not doing anything about it.

    On the other hand, I have some very real misgivings. For example, our entire relationship is in some ways based on a lie. I didn’t “choose” to be with a man who lives far away. I met him in my home city and as far as I knew when I met him, he had just moved here to stay, or at least was trying to decide if he wanted to stay. He was honest about that much. What he didn’t say at the outset was that, regardless of his choice, he was going to have to go back to India. In fact, he already had his return ticket.

    The plus: he decided a week after meeting me that he wanted to move to my city.

    The non-plus: he informed me one week before his flight that in order to move, he would have to go to India to get his work permit and that he would be there four to five months. Then he asked me to “wait for him.”

    It was at that point that I “chose” to wait for him.

    In some ways this is, to me, like a marathon. I’ve even made that analogy to him. And this part is the middle of the long run, the most grueling and the least rewarding.

    I guess that’s why I’m not jumping off right now. Even though part of me wsnts to walk away and say “this just isn’t working for me.”

    I know one friend who broke up with her boyfriend in a similar way. They stayed friends and he worked like h8ll to get her back. They are getting married next fall.

    But that’s their story.

    I have to be careful. I can and have said a lot of things in PMS time that I later regretted – usually ending relationships or criticizing people to the point that they don’t want a relationship or friendship with me anymore. It’s terrible and quite damaging. Hence:suspended animation.

    I’m letting myself float in a thick goo of my own feelings, suspended by the conflict between love and affection and desire and the impulse to leave and just say to heck with the while thing. Why should I be with a guy who couldn’t tell me his plans right at the outset? That doesn’t seem to respect my own ability to choose and make accurate decisions about what is in front of me. He presented something that was only the partial truth. And that is, in reality, deception.

    And so, it’s possible that my love feelings are not genuine. Maybe I feel them, not in spite of him giving me crumbs and not respecting me – but because of it. I aim to change something about this. But I did choose this.

    On the other other hand, maybe that deception belies another truth: he loves me more than be can say. He wants me to stay and not go. He doesn’t know what to do, and he truly wants for my happiness. He doesn’t quite know how to go about it.

    Suspended in goo

  120.  #120Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 5:51 am

    Ps, sorry I’m dominating the blog, ladies. It’s really helpful to sort everything out…

  121.  #121Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Victoria – I’ve never examined the connection between my cycle and these full moon spells… but honestly my heart sinks when I see the full moon. I know a certain degree of chaos is on the way.

  122.  #122Victoria on May 8, 2015 at 6:27 am

    I absolutely love the full moon. It is beautiful where I live, and I totally do not see it as a predictor of chaos.
    I also love black cats and I am happy when one crosses the street in front of me.
    I think I have a little bit of witchcraft in me, lol.

  123.  #123Victoria on May 8, 2015 at 6:36 am

    I also think you are doing great.
    It is a delight when reading your posts to see you are moving away from the anguish to a position of seeing that you have a choice, you are the master of your own destiny, and you can be just fine with him or without him, and it is your choice, your choice, whether to wait or not wait or move on or whatever.
    I see that you feel hurt/abandoned to the point that you are blaming him for misleading you with regards to his intentions of going to India, etc.
    Obviously, I do not know the guy, but from my experience it is extemeley rare that a man will deliberately seek to hurt a woman in this way. He most probably was just unsure and/or changed his mind, which we all do once in a while.

  124.  #124Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 6:37 am


    You have inspired me!

    I think I will have to turn this around, and embrace it all somehow! Maybe something like – time for hot chocolate and bubble baths and feel good movies?

    The full moon is totally gorgeous where I live too.

  125.  #125Victoria on May 8, 2015 at 7:25 am

    I also think the 8 of every month (e.g. 8 May) is a wonderful day for scented bath, hot cholate and a movie.
    F. is doing a 12 hour shift at work, so I need to date myself big time!
    How are things with D?

  126.  #126Millie on May 8, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Well, I made it through the night without reaching out to him. I don’t know why, but I was more emotional last night that I have been in awhile, the tears came, my body felt lifeless…But I made it. I can feel proud of myself now and feel stronger. Each day I get stronger. Not to quote Britney spears but “stronger than yesterday” is a great song lol.

    In other news, I have been giving my number out like candy. Most men are giving me their number first– and my initial reply was–oh I don’t text men first, I’m old fashioned, but I got tired of saying it and it didn’t feel good to say anyway– so I started just replying with my number and letting them figure it out. So far, 9/10 get it and text first. I don’t feel ready to dive into anything…but I feel open to talking, so I’m not putting much pressure on anything. It’s actually a good excersise to have a bunch of random numbers texting you–because I don’t feel attached to WHO is texting me, but rather, what are they saying? And I do notice how I feel different with each one. One guy seems very aggressive and used to “crazy” women. One woman burned him with a frying pan because he said they weren’t in a relationship after 3 dates. He said he was “just trying to get laid” which really turned me off. On one hand–theres an honesty there, but I do feel a bit icky about it…like he’s intention is not in the right place. At first he asked me to come over to his house to which of course I said NO, I feel more comfortable meeting in public. So he picked a park by his house, but it’s going to be dark by then, so I told him NO, I don’t feel comfortable walking around the park at night. So then he picked walk around his house. I had to ask–why are you selecting places by your house? He said because he just moved here and his car isn’t here yet. Ok—but I still feel a bit icky. I don’t want to be walking the streets at night with a stranger on a first meeting. Ick. What happened to just getting coffee? So I don’t know about this guy….

    I’ve been talking to a few others–two have asked me out. One cancelled, which is fine because I have to work anyway. The second I told him next week is better. Guy #3 is an interesting one. Judging his photo I thought oh this guy is a douche. But he has been nothing of the sort. He’s all muscular and tatted and works for the government but drinks earl grey tea and wants to travel. I really like his vibe, but he’s been a lot less aggressive than the other guys. It took him longer to ask for my # and when he did, hasn’t tried to make plans yet, but is still maintaining contact. So we’ll see…There’s a few others I’m chatting with, but I have to work this weekend and already have plans, so Millie’s Circular Dating show won’t start till next week. Stay tuned ladies, I’m sure the stories are going to get interesting!

  127.  #127Labbit on May 8, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Millie that all sounds so fun!! I remember that this part of CD’ing was soooooo instrumental in building up my confidence for exactly the reasons you say — having so many men working for your attention makes it very hard to get stuck on any one of them. (And when I found my mind headed in that direction it was easy to push one guy out and bring another guy in, just to keep myself from getting too focused on any one.) I didn’t even make any of the men contacts…TenderCD only became a contact after we went exclusive.

    I really like reading Mike Dooley’s stuff — one thing he says that has lined up with my experience is that when you’re first reaching for a dream or goal, keep in mind that you might have to live through some of the ‘old thinking patterns’ first, which is to say that while there is no doubt great men are on their way to you, you may or may not have to plow through a few not-so-great ones first. All in all, it’s great practice!

    I can remember chatting with a few guys who were clearly only after sex. They made only light attempts to hide it. Sometimes I felt surprised by how much effort they’d make in their attempts to get laid before date 3…they’d call me regularly, text often, set up nice dates. I decided to meet a few of them anyway because they were close enough to the gentleman line that I thought maybe something could come out of it. But in every case, when I held my ground and set my boundaries about not sleeping with a man until I knew he wasn’t dating anyone else the man would disappear…usually after the second or third date. Sometimes they’d pop back up a few weeks later but mostly they simply faded away.

    It was so worthwhile though, because I got to practice a LOT of “I really want you but I don’t have sex with men before exclusivity” speeches. So by the time I had to have the speech for guys who were serious relationship contenders, I felt confident and comfortable. This goes for anything I wasn’t too comfortable in initially…asking guys to call instead of text, when something they did made me feel bad, etc.

    I’m so excited for you!!! I can’t wait to hear more!!

  128.  #128Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 10:06 am


    D and I are spending tonight together – we will have a delicious dinner and then watch our favourite: Game of Thrones! (yes, we are geeks)

    What have you got planned for your date night with yourself?

  129.  #129Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 10:32 am

    I’m a little afraid that, maybe by not writing back to him, he feels I no longer like him anymore. That’s not the case. But I also keep saying to myself: he’s a man. Let him figure it out. He’ll take the lead.

    This isn’t so different from what I’ve had to experience: him not writing for days and me not knowing what’s going on. He’s probably thinking about me a lot.

    But this way, it stops the worry process for me.

    Oddly, I didn’t and don’t feel hurt and abandoned – or maybe I’m just not aware that I do. When he told me, I took the infirmation in without reacting at the time. I made my decision. It’s only been in retrospect that it occurred to me that he could have been more up front.

    He’s a clueless guy. I think you’re right that he didn’t want to hurt me. If anything, he wanted to protect me – or the relationship.

    Anyway, he’s got this. I know he does

  130.  #130Indigo on May 8, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Purple 101,

    It’s nice to see you back here. Stick with it girl! Many of us are where you are, just at slightly different stages of the journey.

  131.  #131Azure Blu on May 8, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Millie #126
    How FUN!!! Yay you and all your sireny vibrations…
    LOVE hearing about your CDing.

  132.  #132Kath on May 8, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    Hi Ladies,

    Thankyou for your kind words- and for guiding me once again!- I am so glad I found you all!- I had a text from R at 3.30pm yesterday asking if I wanted to have a meal and stay over- I waited to respond and then said yes that would be lovely. As soon as I met him he started talking about the party and how he was thinking we could go together and although he had a few family members around, he wanted to spend time with me. So I listened and smiled on the inside and suddenly felt all relaxed and happy and peaceful. This is how I need to feel!!!!!!
    We spent a lovely evening together and I am looking forward to the party tomorrow night now!- xxx

  133.  #133Labbit on May 8, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Ahhhh Kath I feel delighted by your update! I am so glad R came through in exactly the way you hoped. Yay for your Sirenness!! 🙂

    This has often been my experience as well, that I’ll think of something I hope TenderCD will ask me to do with him or something I want, and usually within a day or two he’ll bring it up himself if I lean back and trust in him. Seems to be that men are more deliberate in these things and that often leaves us a mental stride or two ahead.

  134.  #134April Rose on May 8, 2015 at 2:31 pm

    I’ve been reading a book by John Gray and he says men, when pursuing a woman, should be asking themselves “Am I the right man for her?”

  135.  #135April Rose on May 8, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    I am dating a man who is a fantastic person, yet I’m pretty sure is not the right man for me.

    There are some elusive pink flags. Even though his actions towards me are very good.

    Here’s a conundrum: I am aware that he is ‘besotted’ with me, yet I don’t feel adored and cherished.
    Does this make sense to anyone?

  136.  #136Linda on May 8, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    I have really been enjoying reading the post and the processing going on. I was just thinking about how so many of us here have grown soo much and how there is so much to learn too.

    Auzure: I am really glad to hear that Spirit has stepped up more and that you are practicing with your heart engaged and loving yourself thru it. I actually on on the site again because I could not wait to see what has happened with you. (I knew your deadline had arrived) I do hope that you start feeling better soon.

    Labbit: How helpful I find your sharing is to me. I particularly enjoyed your list or “code of conduct”. I can tell it is a list that was created as you lived it. I have a similar list I think I will put it in writing.

    I have been reflecting on my own life and relationship status. I used to be consumed with finding love and someone to share my life with. I can say now that my biggest focus is being loving with myself and filling my time with meeting my needs and being there for myself. There is level of balance and wellness that this has produced and I have become quite attached to. When life blows in something that knocks me out off balance, it takes me much less time to recover and get back into my groove. I have little to no tolerance for things that do not “feed my soul” now a days and I have sworn off drama in any form, especially the internal kind I let swirl around in my head that I created and would wallow around in.

    When I feel something creep in… I stop and lay back, imagine me lying in a meadow on my back with my arms stretched out and mentally think about my toes and relax them and my legs and the rest of my body. Usually when I get to my shoulders and jaw I can actually physically feel the tension had stored there leave. Then I imagine unzipping my heart and letting in a warm glowing peaceful warmth in. That is how I find my center again. It is quite remarkable how I can sleep or relax then.

    I have several patterns of belief that have made me life so much more enjoyable and lots of them have come from this community. I filter life very differently than I used to and life feels different in a good way.

  137.  #137Linda on May 8, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    I recently have had some dates with P. Many of you would say ?? why ?? because of the history that is recorded within the posts of this blog. I really dont have a precise answer for that other than he never stopped pursuing me. It got me to wondering “what if”.
    What if I am missing something here. When I took it all inside I tried to process it all… I found myself standing face to face with my hard unforgiving crusty heart. Ewwh it felt ugly to me and I knew it has been that way for quite some time. When a someone says they are sorry and love you… it usually makes a difference, except with him.

    I realized that this is not so much about a love relationship with him but an opportunity to heal walk around free of the past. Now it feels like its his turn… he said no matter how wonderful a date with me is he says he’s afraid of the other shoe to drop. I for the life of me do not know why he would even pursue seeing me again if he felt that way.

    Perhaps this is a first hand experience of another person healing thru the healing of my own heart. It could lead to something great for two people instead of just me. That makes me smile

  138.  #138Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    April Rose:

    134 – I like that! I hope it’s true… ; )

    135 – Yes, I think that does make sense. People can become infatuated, both men and women. And this infatuation usually has to do with the person who is infatuated, not the “object” of their “desire.” I’m struggling to articulate this. But I think you are sensing what I am trying to say. We all know what it looks like – the awkward man (or woman) who feels that they love another person and obsesses about them constantly, yet doesn’t really believe that the other person can really love them back. And so there is a disconnect between their desire and actually loving that person. This could happen to varying degrees. So I guess what it would mean is that, even if your man (or a man) feels very besotted with you, it doesn’t necessarily translate into you feeling adored and cherished unless his “besotment” translates into action that would then create those feelings for you. And if, deep in his heart, he doesn’t believe that you can or will love him back the same way, then he may not take those types of actions. Or maybe he just hasn’t yet.

    Does that make sense…?

  139.  #139Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    Linda, that sounds lovely 🙂

  140.  #140Tereana on May 8, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Well, I almost don’t want to talk about myself…I feel peaceful. I haven’t felt this kind of peace in a long time, if ever. I feel at rest. My soul is more restful. If that makes sense.

    This morning I got a text from V that I didn’t see until the evening. 3 words: “Hello no messages.”

    I decided this time to respond. Basically asking if he had a question, since he had not formed a complete sentence. I guess he was just being efficient.

    I still never sent him an email. I composed lots of messages in my head about how he would need to call me if he wants to talk to me. I suppose that’s the sort of thing I will go with if/when he writes back again. “I feel tired of texting. I’ll be happy to talk to you on the phone when you’re ready.” Something like that.

    I’m glad I never sent any of the emails. I knew anything I wrote out would be way too wordy.

    Anyway, I feel relaxed. I know he knows that something is different now. I’m not just responding with all smilies, because I don’t feel all smiley anymore. I’m waiting for him to figure out that if he really wants me around, then he needs to invest more time an energy into making me feel special and wanted, or at least to show that he’s invested in maintaining the connection. Because that’s his job not mine. He’s the IT professional. Let him troubleshoot the problem. ; )

    I am going to love myself up….

    Ok, ladies. Have a great weekend!!!! <3

  141.  #141Lovergirl on May 8, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    S called me tonight, and made this comment about how I have good genes and maybe he should have had a baby with me. (!!!) Then a little bit later he asked me if I’m pregnant. I was like I don’t know, it would be too early to tell, but should I be? Do you know something I don’t know? He said no, but when pressed if he came in me, he said “I don’t think so”. I was like “well you would know” and he kind of laughed it off.

    I’ve had a guy tell me before that there is NO way a man cannot know the answer to that question. I asked why he keeps asking me that and he said “because you are always springing it on me when I’m not ready”. I was in the dollar store when he called, so I said they have tests here, do you want me to take one? He said NO, he’s not ready to deal with that right now, then asked me to tell him when I get my period.

    Actually, the past couple of days I HAVE been feeling kind of pregnant and matching my symptoms to what they were the first miscarriage. They are almost identical. I went ahead and took a test and wondered if I am imagining a very faint line. It’s still too early to tell, but he has my mind working overtime.

    As far as I am concerned, if I AM pregnant again he has completely revoked his “it was an accident” or “you were trying to trap me” cards. No one “accidentally” gets someone pregnant 3 times in a row!!

    He almost sounds like he WANTS me to be, from the way he is talking on the phone. If his attitude were better than last time, I would actually be happy. Speaking of moods, that emotional episode I had the other day is also similar to what has happened in my other pregnancies…it was way too early in my cycle for PMS too.

    People tell me no man *tries* to get a woman pregnant when he doesn’t want a commitment with her, but I’m not so sure about S, no matter what he says. One of the things that upset him after my miscarriages was his concern that I wouldn’t be able to have babies in the future. He thinks my age might be what caused it (I’m 38). I know he really wants kids.

    When I think about it logically, from his side, that is one of the only things that would give him the *excuse* to *have* to be with a woman with 5 kids. He could tell everyone its because he got me pregnant. He also would know for sure whether or not I was ABLE to have more children, before being with me. He would NEVER admit to all that, but I am sure it has gone through his head.

    It’s funny because a couple days ago he also was making jokes about moving over here to live in my town just to be near me, which was exactly what he was planning to do when I was pregnant before. We live 20 minutes apart right now.

    We are both in our 30’s and not stupid. He has condoms in a drawer right near his bed. He’s been with lots of women and it’s not like he can’t control himself at all.

    Another thing that keeps going through my mind is that the first time he ejaculated, he was QUIET. He’s never quiet (lol). There also wasn’t very much, but the next 3 times there was, which is odd, you would think it would be the other way around. It kind of makes me wonder if he did it on purpose and then called me that next day freaking out because of what he did.

  142.  #142CurvySiren10 on May 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Lovergirl, is there a reason you don’t use birth control with him? Do you WANT to be pregnant? I’m just very curious why you wouldn’t take control of that regardless of his willingness to use the condoms…or not.

  143.  #143Linda on May 8, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    Curvy I second that question !

  144.  #144Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 12:57 am

    Lovergirl, from the very beginning of the post, I thought it sounded like he was manipulating the conversation, equivocating, and being intentionally obtuse. None of these are good modes of communication for a caring, committed Relationship. He has you worried and unsure. But to feel good, you would have to feel the opposite.

  145.  #145Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 1:07 am

    It’s 4 am and I can’t sleep. I’m tempted to write to V, but I’m waiting for a response from him first.

    So I’ll try out some feeling messages…

    – I feel neglected

    – I feel disconnected

    – I need regular phone calls every week to feel connected with you. Without that, it feels like our relationship is not a priority.

    (Not sure if that last one counts as “feeling.”)

    And I am trying my utmost best not to break up with him. But he is trying my patience. So I’m toying with this as well:

    You are welcome to call me any time. No pressure. I know you are busy and there is a lot to take care of. But in the mean time, I am also going to be seeing other people, because I need and deserve to be in a relationship where I feel like a priority and where there is good regular contact and open communication.

  146.  #146Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 1:53 am


    How long is he in India for? Is it a short to medium term thing or long term thing? If it were me I’m not sure I could go on like this much longer. But if it’s a short term thing, that is different.

  147.  #147Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 2:03 am

    April Rose 135,

    “I am aware that he is ‘besotted’ with me, yet I don’t feel adored and cherished.
    Does this make sense to anyone?”

    I’ve felt this way several times before and it was always a very unsatisfying feeling to me.

    It seemed to come from men who had fallen in love with the idea of me or with the way I made them feel, or something else… but had no real idea how to make me happy, lacked the skills to do the nuts and bolts everyday to do a relationship that felt good to me. Usually it was a lack of maturity or experience. In my case, I’ve just never had the stamina or desire to “stick it out” just because someone was in love with me.

  148.  #148Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 5:09 am

    Indigo – it’s medium. He’s supposed to come back to the states in the summer. I don’t know that I can go on much longer either.

  149.  #149Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 5:17 am

    Here’s what I think I’ll say: (maybe)

    Honey, I get that you have a lot of priorities. However, I need more and better communication to feel good in a relationship. So I am going to start seeing other people. And if you feel you want to call me, you are welcome to do so. But I want to talk on the phone and hear your voice, not text messages.

    I love you and I miss you like crazy. But I can’t do this without regular phone calls from you.

    [what do sirens thinks? Peanut gallery?]

  150.  #150Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 5:18 am

    ^ that’s good. I like what I just said.

    I think I’ll sit on it a bit and then sent it…

  151.  #151Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 5:22 am

    Of course….if I just wait, he might call me anyway. Maybe days from now, who knows. I might be trying to rush or force it. But that’s why I’m going to sit on this, at least for half a day….

  152.  #152Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 5:29 am


    Just my thoughts – it sounds a leeetle bit masculine to me… This is what I would probably say:

    “V, I love you and I miss you, and I’m struggling without regular communication and contact, and regular speaking on the phone. I need this to feel connected.

    I don’t want to push or pressure you, and so I think I need to start accepting dates with other men. I’m just a woman here, and I need to feel connected to feel happy.”

    (I am just playing around here with what I would say in your shoes… if your message feels good to you send it.)

  153.  #153Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 5:29 am

    I feel neglected

    I feel abandoned.

    I see signs that the relationship is not a priority to him and not worth him investing his time. I’ve been seeing this for a while. Even though I woke up to a bunch of cute emojis on my birthday…that was nice, but since then he’s hardly communicated at all.

    And he always tell me things at the last minute and I just have to “deal with them.” His trip to India. A work trip that got rearranged and impacted our plans for valentines weekend (he told me when I met him for the weekend – not giving me time to prepare for the change). Two days before my bday he told me he was traveling for the holiday and so he wouldn’t be around (as in not good internet) for my birthday. And he only told me that because I insisted we talk on the phone. If I hadn’t, I’m not sure he would have mentioned it. That was last week. And that’s the last time we talked.

    Yeah, he sucks, guys. I mean, he’s a really good guy. But he sucks at communicating in the way that’s necessary in a relationship

  154.  #154Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 5:30 am

    CurvySiren/Linda- I don’t feel comfortable with most of the options for birth control out there. I have taken hormonal birth control in the past and had bad side effects from it, both physical and emotional. I’m also over 35 and higher risk for blood clots due to varicose veins in my legs. I’m not willing to take anything semi permanent because I’m nearing the end of my fertility window anyway and would like to keep the door cracked open. I don’t want to get in a debate about it and I know what my options are, but for several reasons I choose not to go that route.

    Condoms and the withdrawal method have always worked fine for me, except for with S those couple of times he did not pull out. I would have thought he’d be super careful, as paranoid as he claimed to be after this last miscarriage, but he wasn’t.

    In any case, I suppose on some level I DO want to be pregnant by him. I’m much more careful with other men. After two recent losses, especially, there is some sadness and craving to try again. I adore the heck out of S and would totally have his baby. I know he would be there and be a great dad too, despite how he freaks out in the beginning.

    I realize other people might not approve, but if I’m totally honest about my feelings right now, I would say having a baby with him would make me happy. It’s hard to admit that, even to myself, because I know it will probably incur a lot of judgment but it is what it is.

  155.  #155Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 5:30 am

    Tereana – also, just my thoughts, there is absolutely nothing wrong with speaking your feelings, but if you’re going to tell him you want to start dating other men you need to be sure…

  156.  #156victoria on May 9, 2015 at 5:43 am

    I would not judge you. I know the feeling of wanting to keep a man, even against his wishes, believing I know better than him what’s going on in his subconscious mind, knowing I am perfect for him, and hoping all of a sudden he will wake up and see it. I also know several women who have had numerous abortions with the same men, because they trusted him to take care of birth control and had some sort of a vague hope that a baby will improve the relationship.
    This is truly heartbreaking for me to watch.

  157.  #157Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 5:45 am

    Tereana 144-

    I feel like he was being that way because he is genuinely thinking I might be pregnant. He was trying NOT to freak me out in the way he communicated it. I tested this morning and I think I see a very faint line. I’ll check again tomorrow, when my period is due. I’m also nauseated and having some other symptoms. I’ve suspected something was up for the past couple of days.

    I will feel better approaching him with the results, if they are positive, with him having called and said stuff like that to me already. He made some other kind of unusual comments, like he asked how I am feeling and said that is what is important here, how YOU are feeling Lovergirl. I kind of joked about it when he said that but he didn’t seem to be sarcastic.

    As ambiguous as he can be sometimes, underneath it all I feel loved by S. I feel like he is the man for me and deep down we both know it. He also asked me, randomly, what my heart felt right now and I asked him “about what?” because I wasn’t sure if he was asking about with the two of us. He kind of deflected and asked how my heart and head react to the Chicago guy. I said they both say “no”. I suspect he really WANTED to ask about himself, but didn’t.

    Anyway, I feel like things are going to work out, whatever happens. Even if I am pregnant again, there is still a high chance of miscarriage, so I wouldn’t feel secure in that for awhile. I admit I would be hoping for a healthy baby though and this time if S flipped out, he’d have to do it on his own because I don’t want to stress myself out listening to all that.

  158.  #158Kath on May 9, 2015 at 6:39 am


    I am trying to keep this in perspective- honestly I am!- but my brain is doing its usual thing of working overtime and I am having to consciously stay calm!- Right now I don’t feel connected to R at all!- He asked me to look out travel times for us getting a bus into town for the party tonight and then sharing a cab home. I text him the times this morning at 9.15am. Now usually he would answer straight away but he didn’t respond until 11am! and then there was no “thanks for doing that, see you later” it was just “OK, My Sister is down and we’re just going out, when do you want me to pick up xxx”- I was a bit deflated. So I left it for an hour or so and then text back “Anytime after 4 is good for me xxx”- he responded with “will do xxx”. Now actually thinking as I’m typing I know I’m spiraling into over-reaction mode!- He is the sort of person who will running around like a blue arsed fly today making sure everything and everyone is sorted and happy for the party tonight- even though he hasn ‘t been responsible for organising anything!. He will get himself stressed out because he wants everything to be nice for his daughter and I know that is a lovely sweet thing but he always tries to spread himself too thin. I guess I’ve got to be the laid back siren, sipping champagne and smiling and smoothing his brow and saying he good he did haven’t i?- OK- I get it- that’s what I need to do- Phew- I am soo glad I have you to talk sense into me! xxxx

  159.  #159Kath on May 9, 2015 at 6:42 am

    I meant to say “saying how good he did haven’t I”.

  160.  #160Kath on May 9, 2015 at 7:07 am


    Thank you!- I have just read your suggested articles on expectations and I understand!- you are an Angel- thank you for helping me to see clearly instead of clouding myself with a cloak of mistrust and insecurity!- cos that’s what it is!- I know I need to see that he is doing his thing of being a knight to everyone, and when that moment passes he will want time with me on his own- and I have to welcome that man with my open arms and he needs to feel safe and welcomed xx- In the meantime, I focus on me xxx

  161.  #161CurvySiren10 on May 9, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Thanks for the honest response Lovergirl. Reality is, there are many ways to prevent pregnancy that don’t involve hormones. A woman who is adamant about protecting herself from that possibility, would be in full control of the situation. I also sense that you would like to be pregnant by S and that is clearly not ensuring it won’t happen from his end. This has already resulted in 2 pregnancies, and now maybe a third. I am not judging you in any way, but I think it’s critical that we are honest with ourselves with our intentions. The original post last night seemed to somehow imply that is was all up to him to use those condoms by the bed. In reality, you are chosing to take the risk…and so is he.

  162.  #162victoria on May 9, 2015 at 7:14 am

    You know the saying that life lessons will repeat until we learn them. It is so great that you are now catching yourself!
    You already know that you need to get yourself busy with you, take care of you, and trust him to be the masculine man knowing what he needs to do.

  163.  #163Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Linda #133
    Thank you for the get well wishes…
    I am feeling much better..
    But need to go to the Dr. this week…
    i think i might have a sinus infection that is keeping me feeling VERY tired… :-((

    How fun that you were wondering what is happening with my time line with Spirit…
    Yes, he has stepped up in many ways…
    BUT what i have discovered is
    I want less texting (almost exclusively what he does)
    AND more phone calls… more face to face time
    He lives 5 min. away…
    and at least 1 night a week we spend the night…

    Sooooo I am reading with interest as Tereana navigates her more communication with V

    After 2 weeks of Wonderful face to face… and much communication
    Spirit has been withdrawn all week… we haven’t seen each other in over a week or talked on the phone… I have text him 3 times the last time he never responded to me…
    then last night he text me around 8:30 pm…
    I didn’t respond as I am SOOOO bored with texting…
    I felt ANGRY
    I miss him and am sooo bored with HIS rubber banding…

    His first text was… “It’s raining cats and dogs”
    I didn’t respond
    So he then proceeded to text… “I am here lonely”
    I didn’t respond so then he said “Ok Whatever”
    It sounds so juvenile now that I’m writing it out…

  164.  #164Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 7:44 am

    PS #163
    Any suggestions about what to say,,,
    NOT say
    NOT do?

  165.  #165Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 7:52 am

    Victoria 150-

    I wouldn’t say I believe a baby would improve the relationship or anything like that. I just honestly believe both of us, on some level, want this. S has said before himself, that on some subconscious level he must.

    People seem to think S is not a good guy on here, but I am more happy with him than I have ever been with a man in my life. I think he is the opposite of men who say they care about someone but their actions show differently. I feel that most of the time, even when he’s SAYING something different, his actions have showed me he cares.

  166.  #166Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 8:02 am

    CurvySiren (161)- I’m well aware of my birth control options, thanks. My intent in posting about his actions rather than my own was simply pointing out that its NOT just me (which tends to be the automatic assumption of most people, that it’s all on the woman). Of course I am equally responsible. I don’t feel either of us can call this an accident, especially not the third time.

    Like I said, I would be happy, regardless of how anyone else perceives it. It might not be socially acceptable for me to admit that I would be, but it’s the truth and if I am, S is going to hear that too. I was a little more scared the first couple of times, but this time it’s hard not to feel excitement.

  167.  #167victoria on May 9, 2015 at 8:20 am

    You know what you need to do, don’t you?
    I have decided for myself that I will never ever say again “I wish we could spend more time together”. I assume he does want that too, but for some objective reason he can’t and that s that.I no longer think why can’t he be a better planner, make more money, get out of debt. The situation is what it is. It is not his job to entertain me when I am bored.
    I feel so liberated thinking that. No need to wonder did I lean forward too much what should I do. I need do nothing but take great care of me.

  168.  #168Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 8:26 am


    I like the rough script that Indigo has put together for you. What you said is accurate, but perhaps not effective in stirring up his desire to reach out more…can you see the difference? Whenever I write a script I try to flip it around and try it out on myself. I think, “If my man said this to me how would I feel?” As I first started learning how to script my first few tries would always feel aggressive, masculine and when I tried it out on myself I’d feel defensive. So take heart — as you’re learning it’s totally normal that it may be difficult to find the real feelings underneath and express it in a feminine way!

    It’s just like learning any new language…give yourself time and patience.

    And this brings me to the second thing I want to say. I realize that you are feeling off-balance and upset right now, and if you can, I’d recommend sitting with your feelings for a day or two before you say anything. This is such a big decision and you’re clearly vacillating back and forth — I would be too! Give yourself some time to feel what you feel, so that when you do reach out to him or respond to him you can do it from a centered, feminine place. That way no matter what the outcome you will feel solid in having come from a place of strength rather than a place of need. You deserve this.

  169.  #169Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 8:31 am

    136 Linda,

    I love that you are going to write out your thoughts and feelings!! I found it a very helpful exercise because in those moments when I felt really upset or angry or sad or whatever I could look at the list and be like…oh yeah, THERE’S my center, this is how I really am underneath all these mini-explosions of passionate feelings. 🙂 In a way it made me feel safer to feel whatever I was feeling, because I had reminders about how to conduct myself with my guy even when I was upset.

    Also, I feel intrigued to see what unfolds for you and P. You are not the same person you were even a few months ago…you have grown and learned so much! I like that you are there with him in each moment, no expectations of any future set in your mind. That allows such wonderful surprises to unfold in all aspects of your life…

  170.  #170Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Ahhh… thank you for your thoughtful Siren response.

    BUT what about the authentic truth of
    I am bored with texting…

    It seems if I ignore his text… this is setting us up for the regular 2 months and we break up

    What about me expressing what *I DO* want

    But I have never shared with him
    how much together time would feel good to me

    MORE than seems possible given
    We’ve spent the night together 2 times in 10 months…
    I totally agree!!! he doesn’t have to entertain me… :-))
    I have gotten over that… and LOVE MY the life I work on every day…

    But before I decide this isn’t enough for me
    I believe I should share what it is I do want.
    Don’t you think?

  171.  #171Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 8:39 am

    163 Azure Blu — Aww, I’m sorry to hear that you are sick! Does Spirit know you are sick? Could this perhaps be the reason why has been less communicative this week, because maybe he is giving you time to take care of yourself and heal?

    Just want to send you love because I am very similar to you, and I know that in the past when men have texted when I wanted a phone call (admittedly, when I had my heart SET on a phone call) I too have felt so ANGRY when they text instead.

    Part of me wants to say that if you can drop the expectation of a call and see that he is at least working to close the space…that may release any pressure he might feel to ‘have’ to call you, so that call you want comes sooner. 🙂 But another part of me is wondering if hmm, if this is a dealbreaker you feel very strongly about it, if I were in your shoes I’d want to express it to him sooner rather than later. I don’t have the answer…just processing my own thoughts out of your situation.

    I can recall a period with TenderCD where he would promise to call me while he was away on business trips, but then would simply text instead. At first it annoyed me. But then, I think out of sheer exhaustion at trying to will him to do my bidding 😉 I caved in and responded to his texts, and kinda forgot all about him calling. And then on his own he started calling me a few weeks later…to my shock and glee! It really is just like Dominique talks about. When I released my expectations and created space for him to move into and call, he did. No pressure or nagging from me needed. (Even though if I’m being honest, I really, really wanted to nag him into it!)

  172.  #172Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Thank you darling Siren!!! oxoxo

    How about:
    “Hi Spirit… ohhh I feel happy hearing from you
    I miss you
    Thing is I guess I am feeling bored with texting
    phone calls work much better for me I love hearing your voice.”

    OR Simply
    “”Hi Spirit… ohhh I feel happy hearing from you
    I miss you
    Thing is. I guess I am feeling bored with texting..”

  173.  #173Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:49 am

    from what you wrote… It does sound like you had let Tender know
    You do prefer phone calls…
    It was up to him when he decided he wanted to
    actually do this – or NOT-

    I guess that is what I want to do,,,
    At least let him know what I do prefer
    And how much time together feels good…

    It would feel authentic for me to share with him
    Why I am pulling away…
    Share MY feelings and Wants…
    and let go of any expectations.

  174.  #174Millie on May 9, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Labbit I love your idea of putting yourself in the mans shoes and hearing the script spoken to you!! That is always a great tool!

    Tereana– I agree sitting on the decision before you say anything so you feel 100% confident in what you choose to do. I have spoken on impulse or “too soon” before and really regretted it, but in hindsight… I was speaking honestly so it wasn’t completely wrong. I was going to suggest– and this is harsh—- that you feel unhappy in the current state of the relationship. You care about him immensely and understand he’s doing what he needs to do and you support him, but you need constant communication to feel connected beyond texting. I would pause and ask what do you think? See what his response is and based on how you feel hearing it, go into the well I want to open myself up to dating other men. That gives him a moment of offer a solution first before you drop the bomb. I’m not the best at this– but I’m sharing as just food for thought and I’m sure you’ll come up with the best script!!

  175.  #175Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Yes… Spirit and I were trying to stay away from each other… cause we keep giving it back and forth…
    Ughhhh!!! :-/

    And am feeling VERY weepy and vulnerable
    Even now… still not my healthy self…
    But I thought Rori says to show your
    weak, vulnerable self when your sick…
    Which I have such a Difficult time doing,,,

  176.  #176Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 9:04 am

    So I did text him…
    he’s golfing today (I know this cause he golfs every Sat)…
    this is what I textd.
    “Hi Spirit,
    Ohhh… i feel happy hearing from You!
    I’m missing you!
    I’m soo tired of being sick.
    Thing is…
    I guess I’m feeling bored with texting
    Phone calls feel better to me…
    I do love hearing your voice!”

  177.  #177Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 9:05 am

    173 Azure — Actually Tender asked me before he left for his business trip if I would prefer texting or calls while he was away, and I responded that calls would be my preference. I can’t remember the exact conversation but I remember him saying something amusing like “You seem more like a call girl” haha. So the fact that we had that conversation made it all the weirder to me that he texted instead of called while he was away. Weird, isn’t it?

    I remember all this bile rising up inside of me that built up each day he was away, along with some tension and fear. I spent a lot of time wondering why he didn’t simply call as he’d promised, and also a lot of time trying to distract myself.

    I finally realized that all my wondering and plotting was just me trying to control him, trying to manipulate the situation. And it was EXHAUSTING to me. I decided that he was doing his best, that he wasn’t texting instead of calling to hurt me, and that he was treating me well in every other way so yes I could compromise on this one thing even if it wasn’t my preference to compromise.

    I would think Azure, that there’s nothing wrong with saying it one more time to him…perhaps using your cold as an excuse, “Spirit I feel so weak and tired right now and I don’t like feeling this way. I’m so bored sitting around my house waiting for this cold to go away! It feels so good to hear your voice…want to distract me back to health tonight with a phone call? My voice is really sexy right now…”

    Something along those lines, light and playful yet honest and vulnerable. Try to release as many of the heavy feelings you’re experiencing right now as you can. It’s supposed to be fun!! 😉

  178.  #178victoria on May 9, 2015 at 9:07 am

    I have to admit my own limitations here – I have never dated a man who texts. This is probably an American thing you have there.
    You know I have thought a lot about should I say to F. How much face to face I want. But then I never said it because I don’t want him to do it as a chore. I want him to want me. I want him to be crazy about him and to want to spend every moment with me out of his free will. On his own timeline. Men are not stupid. The one Iam dating is damn smart. He can figure out things.

  179.  #179Millie on May 9, 2015 at 9:11 am

    On the subject of pregnancy—- I know everyone is different, but I feel like sharing my personal stand point on it. Keep in mind this is coming from a woman who has never been married, never been engaged, never been pregnant….

    Also pls know that I’m not sharing to impose my beliefs on anyone else, I know we all come from different places and experiences., and this is my belief to own based on how I was raised.

    For me, I see bringing a child into the world as the most important aspect of pregnancy. The child’s quality of life, the stability of the parents, and my relationship with the father would all be huge factors to whether I choose to bring a child into the world or not. Accidents happen, but as the mother, the carrier of the child, from the moment it is conceived, I am responsible. My body is no longer just mine, it is a temple for my child. And I know that when I make that choice, to keep it, to go forward into motherhood, it is going to be with someone who is 100% in it with me. For me, a child is too important to stake on subconscious desires, or on a flakey man in hopes he’ll come around, or hope he will step up once he has to be a father… Those ideas are not only scary, but they don’t work. A man changes because he wants to and I would never throw a child in the mix based in hope. Nope. Hope and subconscious feelings are not good enough. In fact I want marriage and a commitment of wantng the same things before I have a child. For me, I want that structure and security to raise my kids. I need to at least try to give that to them….to give them what I had, which is an amazingly stable family. It’s not about the immediate…. It’s about their future. And maybe the immediate man isn’t ready for that. Has he shown me that he is? Do I KNOW with every fiber of my being, that he is? Until I know, I will not put my life at risk for dramatic change, until I know that I have a real partner because I don’t want it to do it alone. For my sake and for my child’s sake.

  180.  #180victoria on May 9, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Funny how they misinterpret things sometimes. I toldF once that I don’t like pot flowers. The things is I can’t be bothered to water them and they die. All he heard was I do not like receiving flowers… which of course I love…
    So yes it makes sense to speak up about your preferences… If you can take no for an answer 🙂

  181.  #181Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Millie- those are wonderful sentiments. I thought the same way before I married and had 5 children, assuming that union would last forever. My ex was in the ministry, we were going to be missionaries. I never dreamed it would all fall apart or that I would be a single mother.

    Now, all of that has changed and I dont have the options that I used to. In any case, S never has been and never will be, flaky, when it comes to taking on the responsibility of being a dad. He is almost 36, has never had kids and takes it very seriously. He has always been 100% sure he would be there for his child, wanted to come along to doctor appointments and everything else, even when he was freaking out. He is financially set and has said he would never feel comfortable just throwing a couple hundred dollars in support our way each month. He would get a house out near me, at the very least and also said he would want to be involved in my other children’s lives.

    He may not be perfect, but he trust that a child of his would have it ten times better than the ones I had with my ex husband in the supposedly “ideal” scenario. Ex has pretty much turned into a deadbeat. S, feels much more strongly about fatherhood.

    So on the surface things arent always what they seem.

  182.  #182Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Victoria — LOL! I can think of similar instances in my own relationship. 🙂 Funny reminder that men really do want to please us…

  183.  #183Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 10:22 am

    Lovergirl 157 – Ok. Maybe it was hard to interpret from the writing. But if you feel ok with him asking, then that’s fine. As long as you feel good (like he said ; )

    And if you are pregnant, and you want to be pregnant, then yay!!!!

    But if he flips out, then boo. Yes, he can do that on his own. Didn’t he know that was a possibility? Of course he does, if he’s asking about it. You don’t need that kind of stress…especially of miscarriage is a thing you’ve dealt with before….

  184.  #184Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 10:25 am

    I just had a *great* convo with my Fairy Godmother. She is soooo good about talking about love. She’s had a lot of experience, good and bad. And she somehow manages to get right to the issues that matter to me. She “gets” me.

    So I’ve composed a longer message to V, which I’m getting ready to send my email. It’s not quite ready to go yet.

    I think the piece I’ve been missing is that I’m communicating to get a result. But I’ve also been communicating in a way I think I “should” be communicating – which means not quite authentically.

    I’ll take the comments here into consideration as well, but also I think it’s mainly about coming straight from my heart, and not holding back because I think something isn’t “right” enough to be said. If I feel it, and it’s true for me, then it’s right and I have a right to ask for what I need in service of the relationship….

  185.  #185Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 10:27 am

    I totally understand about not “wanting him to do it as a chore”

    But… my old self… would NEVER share my preference
    to more phone conversation…
    More face to face time
    and at least one night a week spend the night…
    I’ve given this 10 months…
    As Rori says/// seeing what his “stepping up” looks like…
    in many things he has surprised me…
    But now I am realizing what
    I am looking for in a relationship as far as contact goes…
    Rori’s coaches have said it is Very important
    to share what you want (with soft, feeling messages AND NO expectations)
    It takes the Drama out
    And Builds Closeness like nothing else!

    Labbit… a GREAT reminder…
    KEEP IT FUN and LIGHT!!!

  186.  #186Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 10:38 am


    I guess we are all concerned for you, entering into a parenting relationship with S accidentally, instead of consciously and with intent.

  187.  #187victoria on May 9, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Bear in mind I am projecting my own experience, it may be not valid for you.
    With F., it has been more than 3 years. I have broken up 3 times with him and it has been only since I found Rori that I am able to see my mistakes, and I just feel so much happier with myself but also with him.
    It is not my job to dissuade you to speak your feelings and desires with him. I personally still struggle with being fully authentic. What are you going to do if this is all he can do? If he does not step up further on your desired time and terms? I personally am choosing to trust … Not so easy but I am getting better at it.

  188.  #188Millie on May 9, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Lovergirl 181- Yes, I think we all have an ideal that gets disrupted by life. That’s why I prefaced my post with all the things I haven’t experienced yet. I’m still green…and young with an idealist attitude towards family. I understand things aren’t what they seem always, that a perfect picture can have flaws and a flawed picture can sometimes turn out perfect.

    I second Indigo in that I am coming from a place of concern.

  189.  #189Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 11:27 am

    So I heard back from Spirit,,,!!! :-))

    “Playing golf. I’ll call you after our round…
    I love hearing your voice too!”
    YAYA Spirit!!!
    He keeps surprising me in wonderful ways!

    Victoria.. to answer your question…
    What happens if he doesn’t step up in my timeline
    MY 2 months timeline has ended…

    NOW i’m trying to be interested in compromises…
    What can work for me AND him…

    To continually be a doormat…
    which was my old way…
    NEVER worked..

    Sooo… MY practice is to learn to
    share MY authentic feelings…
    and NOT stomp off and get mad (my old way)
    and ask for mutually acceptable ways to work things out!

  190.  #190Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Ladies, I feel good.

    This issue was bothering me too much that I felt I couldn’t not address it. When I wake up with something like this turning over in my head every day, I know that it’s a thing I need to pay attention to. And I feel lighter already now that I have sent my message.

    I really liked Indigo’s suggestion as well. Especially the part about “struggling.” I kept that.

    Here’s what I wrote:

    V –

    I love you and I miss you like h8ll. But I am struggling here with out regular phone calls and communication. I need those calls to feel connected to you.

    All it would take is two voice/video calls a week for 5-10 minutes to make me feel happy every day. Without them, I feel like a wilted flower that’s been neglected. And that’s how I feel right now.

    I need sunshine.

    But I don’t want you to feel pressured to do anything. So, for the time being, I’m thinking I’ll start dating again. And you can take all the time you need to decide.



    I feel smiley just thinking about my message. Lol. I feel self love and self gratitude, and also not a little bit of self respect.

    I was really worried about saying that I’ll see other people. I hovered over the “send” button for almost 20 minutes. But in the end, I’m glad I said all of it. All of those words came from my heart, and they are true and accurate to me. I will start dating other people, if the occasion arises. I know that men like me and check me out every day. My coworker who is married even admires me and flirts with me – even while he is clearly devoted to his wife. I know that there are tons of men out there who would *love* the opportunity to make me happy. So if he is not going to do it, why should I wait for him to step up?

    I shouldn’t.

    Yay me!

    I am going to go out tonight and party and have a great time and not even worry about him. Because I took responsibility for me and for MY actions. And what he does is entirely up to him…. <3

  191.  #191Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Tereana 183 and Indigo 186-

    Thank you. Realize I am about 98% sure I am pregnant right now so I may be backwards rationalizing too. I don’t consider abortion an option. So if I am, then I need to deal with what is, rather than what “should” have been, if that makes sense.

  192.  #192Labbit on May 9, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    189 Azure Blu — YAY!! I am so impressed by you these days, seriously. And learning so much! I can very much relate to having stifled myself in the past, being afraid to speak up for what I need or want, and I am learning a lot watching how you handle things with Spirit during this tricky time.

    Mostly, I feel so happy you got the outcome you wanted! 🙂

  193.  #193Lovergirl on May 9, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Millie- Thanks. I know everyone is trying to help. Guess it just feels like its too late for some of that. I’m pretty sure I am pregnant. I can just feel it and the tests from this morning look like they have the beginnings of very light lines.

  194.  #194Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    Well…this is kind of weird.

    Just a few minutes after I sent my message to V, I got my period. Now, I was expecting it today. That’s how I knew that at least part of all my feelings was PMS related.

    But one thing PMS does for me is kind of an emotional “cleaning house.” The way the period sheds the lining of the uterus, I almost feel like my mind sheds unwanted emotions – usually before the period starts.

    It’s odd that it happened in such quick succession.

    I did have one moment of almost regret. I wondered if I should maybe have sent it without the last paragraph. And then I remembered all the reasons why I did send it, and why I’ve been having these feelings for so long. When he was here in person, it was all fine. He wanted to see me every day, and I could say yes when I wanted to. That was great. But from afar, it’s like pulling teeth to ask for one crumb of attention. It doesn’t feel right, it’s draining to me, and I am losing (or have lost) my enthusiasm for the whole thing. It’s not fun anymore.

    Then there is this:

    Earlier today I took a walk around the neighborhood and picked up a book in someone’s mini free library (a small cute house-shaped box for books in their front yard). It was “The Prophet” by Kahlil Gibran.

    On my way home, I sat in the park and started reading it. I got a few pages in when I saw this sentence:

    “And ever has it been that love knows not its own death until the hour of separation.”

    That’s when I got up and walked home, knowing that I had to send him my message….

  195.  #195Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    OOOPPPSSS – that was a big typo. That was supposed to say:

    “…love knows not its own DEPTH…”

    Oy. Well, one or the other, I suppose….but one ending is another beginning. So it’s all the same in a way

  196.  #196Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    “And ever has it been that love knows not its own Depth until the hour of separation.”

    – Kahlil Gibran

  197.  #197Sophie on May 9, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    I feel such admiration for you all as we muddle through this together finding our feelings and felling them (ha) and helping each other with all the best ways to express our feelings.

    It feels like a fascinating journey and one in which I keep making lots of revelations myself – revelations, and changes, I wouldn’t have made without all of you and without this blog and…I keep feeling surprised…that’s one of the best feelings – when I do something different and I achieve a result which is a pleasant surprise, but also because of this blog an ‘aha!

    So, I returned to my homeland which feels strange and disorientating and has felt delightful in moments and fraught in others. I feel like I’m in a very transformative place regarding intimate relationships and right now the main practice right in front of me comes in two forms: one via internet communication (or lack of), the other via the return to living with my parents and major triggers/communication difficulties with my mother. BELOVED I will be following you closely and how you’re managing your living situations. Still, this thing with my mu could be invaluable practice. There seems to be a real blame/attack dynamic and a lot of harbored resentments. It feels difficult – BUT I do need to learn to deal with being triggered and communicating effectively ‘cos it comes up time and time again in my relationships with men. I feel conflict. Half of me feels like this is toxicity I could do without; the other half practice that is a great gift.

    I kind of have little choice immediately so I need to embrace the lessons – and I need them to make me stronger (not weaker). We shall see.

    Men wise the trip felt fascinated and now i’m like woah! I feel conflicted again. In many ways I have become a lot clearer about what I want in a partner and where my bottom lines are, and in others perhaps not. I met someone with great intelligence and felt really turned on by this – this was new for me – i’d always shied away from it because my family is deeply intellectual and i often felt burdened and oppressed. This felt refreshing and it felt adult! And the timescale thing was really revolutionary for me. I knew innately that he would come closer the more distance I gave him and I felt that he did. I never pushed him for anything and he provided when he could. There were ‘issues’ and I have no idea (or need to have any idea) as to whether a future would be a possibility or even if I will want one but it felt new. Like a completely new experience and a positive one. I wondered if I gave him space whether he would open to me abut some of his emotional world. And he did. It took some months for some morsels but felt like a huge leap!

    Now, I need to do what I was doing get my energy out of there. Seriously. cos it’s a bit too in there right now.

    I don’t feel concerned though. It’s not that in there and I feel no hurry for anything right now other than a lot of self-love and a lot of sorting my life so that my basic needs are met…and using all this time and space I have to focus on my growth regarding my communication skills/ability to manage triggers, my explorations of what feels good with men and what doesn’t, my health my health my health (all addiction based/self-love based/always on my mind as it feels like the hub of all).

    Most other male connections I made have not remained in communication and I have allowed them to drop away – effortlessly. This feels good and positive. It feels like something might be changing!

  198.  #198Sophie on May 9, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    I recognise a real need for attention in myself too – not just now – always – and maybe I realise it more acutely when I live with my parents as it triggers a feeling of not having enough. So, I need to find healthy ways of fufillng this need. I looked on on of the dating websites earlier and was like ‘ugh’ but i’ll allow the idea to keep brewing as I work on all the other aspects of my life. I can also try and give myself lots of attention I suppose.

  199.  #199Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Tereana #196
    Sooo very cool and true!!

  200.  #200Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Welcome HOME gentle Siren!

  201.  #201Sophie on May 9, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    (((((thank you Azure Blu 🙂 )))))

  202.  #202Millie on May 9, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Feeling up and down today… Trying to focus on work. This weekend marks four weeks of no contact from my guy, three weeks of no contact from me. A month sounds like a long time, but it doesn’t feel like it. It still feels like it just happened… But he feels a million miles away. This four week mark, is kind of a solid landmark for me. All this time I’ve been secretly hoping to hear from him, but now I’m starting to face the reality that I’m not going to. It’s also a reflection on a failure for me… A failure to turn my vibe around completely. I was unable to do it in four weeks…. I feel extremely sad today. I miss him. But this landmark is a turning point, a reality check…. I uploaded all my photos of us and him and texts that I screenshotted into my computer and put it in a file hidden from view. They are no longer on my phone for me to look at. I have not gotten to the point where I can delete our text conversation… But it has fallen below, out of view, mixed in with everyone else’s and isn’t in plain sight. Just another number. I feel so sad. Before things went awry, he was an amazing person, and I just will never forget how it felt and how he made me feel. Like I was perfect. All my little quirks were perfect for him.

    In a weird way, Mechanic has shown up during all if this. He’s been supporting me and very kind. After we agreed to “be friends” he started telling me he had a sex dream about me and texts me a lot. Checking in and seeing how I am. I don’t know what’s going on with us… Seems like two people who are still sexually attracted to each other and respect each other but know it can’t go beyond…. Which is fine. I’m still in love with my guy. Maybe I’ll always love him. However I don’t still love my ex anymore. I remember our time together, but I don’t love him in that way anymore. So I guess it will fade.

    I didn’t delete my guys # but I removed his name. Since he is from another state it has a very specific area code. Last night I got a phone call from that area code and my heart stopped. My phone rang twice and then the person hung up. It wasn’t my guys # though. I don’t know who it was… But it jostled me. I suddenly asked myself what if he does call? How would I handle it? I kind of froze when I saw the number. The universe was playing a mean trick on me….

    Anyway… I’m blue. No guys are texting me.. Going out with friends tonight but I’m sure I’ll cry since we are doing something I loved to do with my guy.

    So sad.

  203.  #203Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    A (young) man on the subway just told me I had beautiful legs.

    “Does your boyfriend tell you that?”
    “Not enough,” I said.
    “Well he should.”
    “Do you want to tell him that?”
    “I would. That’s just the kind of man I am…You snooze you lose.”


    If I needed any more affirmation or reassurance, I think the Universe just handed it to me

  204.  #204Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    Ohhh… nooo!!!
    I had expectations!!!

    Yes, Spirit said he would call me…
    But MY Expectations were that he would ask me to
    come and hang out a the golf club when he got thru…

    He did call… a few hours after he finished his round…
    and then we talked for a few minuets and
    we talked a little about his golf…
    my work project…
    He asked What was I doing? I was finishing up my
    work project and then having a glass of wine…
    He said he was going to be laying low tonight…
    cause he’s playing golf tomorrow…
    AHHH!!! ARGHH!!! we havnt’ seen each other for 9 days!!

    I said… “hopefully we could see each other sometime…”
    He said: “yeah, sometime soon maybe we can.” in a flippant voice…

    And then I just blurted it all out…
    “I don’t know about you.. but I want a relationship where we see each other on a regular basis, we talk on the phone on a regular basis and we spend the night often…” I’m hopping that you have something similar in mind”
    He said “Well, yeah… we can talk about that sometime.”
    I feeelllll sooo ANGRY!!!

    This is the reason I ended up dating others…
    He presses EVERY trigger I have…

    He isn’t consistent… He never once said he missed ME…
    It feels like it is always 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off…
    It’s All about HIM…
    I am VERY sad to think that this just ISN”T what I
    Have in mind for ME!!!

    My heart is hurting and I am sooo lonely!!
    He’s not going to see me tomorrow either!

  205.  #205Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    I sooo much want to push this with him…!!!!

    I called him back and he didn’t answer!

    “I said: “I am missing you!!!
    it feels VERY odd that we haven’t seen each other for 9 days… Is there something you needed to tell me?
    What is going on?
    You didn’t want to see me tonight…
    You can’t see me tomorrow cause your busy…
    I am feeling like something is wrong…
    Can you help me understand?

  206.  #206Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    I broke the Rori rules and have been leaning forward ALLLL week!
    and now this…
    I just can’t be a Siren with Spirit…

    I’m going to get ready to stop alllll this!!!
    This is why I made myself do the 2 month timeline…
    and He just doesn’t seem to be able to sustain much contact
    It is Sooo much Drama with him…
    If it’s not his daughter (which seems to be ok now)
    it’s his shoulder…
    His cold
    His sinuses

    I’m NOT feeling like much of a princess around him anymore!
    He seems to know how to push things until
    we explode!

    My chest is sooo tight…
    My heart is sooo sad
    I am feeling rejected
    NOt a priority
    I need to take my feelings and lOVE them,

    I am sooo tired of being alone!
    Years, and years of no man in my life…

    I did this with Spirit so I could
    REALLY let him go (if he couldn’t step up)-
    with the deep knowledge that he just CAN”T
    give me what I want!!!
    BUT it is going to HURT…
    I can feel it!!

  207.  #207Beloved on May 9, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Oh, Azure, I wish I could sweep you up in a great big hug right now! It probably is going to hurt, and you will survive it.

  208.  #208Millie on May 9, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    So much emotional progress on the blog today with Tereana and AZure! You ladies are so strong and I feel proud to be on this journey with you!

  209.  #209Millie on May 9, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    Azure— I just want to say that I felt the same way with my man in the last few weeks of our relationship. I felt myself leaning forward and feeling like I wasn’t a priority all of a sudden. In hindsight I don’t know if leaning back would have helped because he was in a place where he wanted his own time. If This has been ongoing with spirit, I almost wonder how much leaning back must we do? Lean back so much that there is no relationship. I read on Leigha lake that if you give a man space and HE doesn’t close the gap, then he’s not the man for you…. I wonder if we lean so far back and give them so much space, that that’s what will remain. Space. I think you know what you want and know that right now this isn’t it… I hate that feeling though.

  210.  #210Femininewoman on May 9, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    At 35 the likelihood of downs syndrome is so much higher I can ‘t imagine Lovergirl why a woman who already has 5 kids wouldn’t want to be cautious. Especially with a man who can be out the door the next second. Plus with the possibility of STD thus all just read like physical abuse to me. After 7 pregnancies I am sure your poor body must want some space to take care of itself. Childbirth is no picnic. Many a mom has lost her life giving birth.

  211.  #211Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 8:25 pm


    Don’t blame yourself. It’s not your “fault” for not “turning your vibe around.” Just as its nearly impossible to screw things up with the right guy, it’s even more futile to try and make something work with the wrong guy.

    What’s that saying? People come into our lives for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. Maybe he was the first two and not the third. And there’s nothing wrong with that – or you 🙂

  212.  #212Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    PS Millie (208) – thank you! : )

    I must confess I’ve been having pangs of “did I do the right thing?” And “will be be too hurt to ever contact me?” And “does this mean I am ‘unfaithful’?”

    But then I figure, the only thing that can go wrong is if I look back. I’m safe, no matter what happens. Because either he will realize that he has to reach out to me to make me feel loved on a consistent basis and that I’m important to him enough to make that happen. Or he won’t, and then he’ll be doing me a favor by making way for the man who WILL maker feel loved and cherished and honored every day.

    Either way, I win : )

    Still, I’ve never done this quite in this way before. It’s a little unnerving. I still love him. I don’t want to “cheat” on him. Yet I feel I do deserve to feel the way I want to feel. And I feel vulnerable being in this position. But strong at the same time…

  213.  #213Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Thank you…
    yeah… I just signed up on POF… again.
    I hate this feeling of not being a priority…’
    Same sh**t different month…
    But I had to give it a try.. just in case HE could
    Actually do it!!

    And like Beloved said…
    YES it will HURT…
    BUT I will survive…
    and someone MUCH better is around the corner…
    Cause I am ready for BETTER!!!

  214.  #214Azure Blu on May 9, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    Thank you for your huggs!
    They FEEL GREAT!!!

  215.  #215Tereana on May 9, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    Oh, Azure! I hear you – one thing after the other. The excuses – I mean “reasons” – he can’t do for you the things that you need. Exactly where I’ve been. And I summoned all my patience. But patience for what?

    I’ll have patience. I’ll have patience while I take care of myself and let him figure out what he needs to do…

  216.  #216IamHis on May 9, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    I feel so conflicted. Because he’s 20. & he’s your average 20 year old as far as maturity goes. Not mature or immature for his age, just average. I know I’m sending him mixed signals because of the age thing. But when I get out of my head & into my body, I can’t think of anyone who has made me feel more safe and protected. When I’m emotional, feeling sad, scared, or confused…I just want him. I feel like a five year old girl with him, I feel like he would never let anyone…male or female hurt me in any way. He watches me so closely and bends over backwards to help me. & I can tell he’s feeling a little insecure & jealous, because of my personality, and I don’t think he’s seeing that I really do treat him differently & feel completely different with him…safe, but also incredibly nervous because of how attracted I feel. & it’s NOT a good environment for feeling messages or talking.

    Anybody have any non-judgmental advice, nostalgia about a similar experience?

    I feel kind of sad & scared. I have trouble communicating with any guy, let alone a much younger one…

  217.  #217Sophie on May 9, 2015 at 11:01 pm


    I feel the same as post above. I want to wrap you up in a big hug. I feel (and know) how ver very disappointing and upsetting it is. I identify with you reflecting on how much energy it is taking. That is one of my new lessons. I DO NOT want it … a man in my life who is going to take so much energy I need my energy. I listened to an amazing (to me) Marianne Williamson talk the other day on how love is going to trigger us – or relationships are – that is there assignments (in her talk) but still, I want a man that can work those triggers with me…I too would want to hang on to the belief that this is all preparation for someone so right, so wonderful – in this talk MW gave advice to a woman in the audience and she said something like ‘you’re a Rolls Royce girl’ and this man is still some other kind of car (I can’t remember which one but the general message was that she’d ascended beyond his capabilities). I don’t want that to sound advicey or imposing upon your feelings. I would love to offer comfort. It sounds like you are doing that very well for yourself – your horse KNOWS where it’s going….(((Millie too, Me too).

    I woke up, weird after ex-related dreams – then had message from other man – feel like I overdid my response and always I just respond. I would benefit from taking my time perhaps.

    I feel different with my mum today – yesterday she said ‘I take her for granted’ and I felt really triggered ‘cos I felt that I had been doing everything not to take her for granted and I acted defensively. Today, I hear ‘I feel taken for granted’ (her) and so I need to do what I can so that she doesn’t feel taken for granted. It has felt like a struggle for me (not just a justification) ‘cos i’ve not felt at all well since I’ve been back so not putting energy into doing things for her has been a genuine oversight…i’ve been really distracted by feeling ill..but i’m going to try and work with all my feelings round this one and turn the way we communicate around.

  218.  #218Indigo on May 9, 2015 at 11:35 pm


    I love what you said to V!

  219.  #219victoria on May 9, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    I love you so much darling siren, you are such a kind and sunshiny presence.
    On a couple of occasions I feel like things I said must have rain on your parade and I want to apologize. What I want to say now is that the things he does or does not do is not because of you. There is nothing you could have done differently.
    This is what golfers do. I know 10s of men like that. It takes a specific personality to like this game…
    Love and hugs to you.

  220.  #220Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 12:04 am

    (((Azure Blu))) 189

    “NOW i’m trying to be interested in compromises…
    What can work for me AND him…

    To continually be a doormat…
    which was my old way…
    NEVER worked..

    Sooo… MY practice is to learn to
    share MY authentic feelings…
    and NOT stomp off and get mad (my old way)
    and ask for mutually acceptable ways to work things out!”

    My old ways used to be either getting mad and tantrumy, streaming all my feelings (really thoughts and beliefs) out, or swallowing my feelings and being a doormat. Now I am learning a new way, which is of course neither, but walking a path between the two. I won’t allow anyone to trample me, I am developing a strong inner centre which is constantly evaluating the situations I am in, telling me what is right for me, so I can speak that out in my relationship where appropriate. BUT I use few words, speak calmly and gently, and I am patient enough to go away and take care of myself and let the other person respond.

    This is of course a practice and I am nowhere near perfect at it. But it feels really good.

    I just wanted to say to you, Azure, a little voice said to me while I was reading your posts about Spirit… you have come so far and evolved so much, I think it is that Spirit is not where you are. His progress shows that he is capable of progression, but it’s just probably going to be so much slower than yours. You alone know if you have the patience to wait for him to catch up. I have been kind of where you are, and in my case it has taken years, but it HAS been worth it. I don’t know. I feel also you would be fully within your rights to start dating again and let Spirit go if you feel he is not for you. I have certainly done that with other guys in the same situation and never regretted it. It all comes down to you and your feelings. xx

  221.  #221Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 12:25 am

    Azure Blu,

    I want to second what Victoria has said… none of this is about you. Or any sireny or unsireny thing you might have done or said, this is all his stuff…

  222.  #222Femininewoman on May 10, 2015 at 3:44 am

    Happy mothers day

  223.  #223Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Ok I take it back a little I do sort of wish to “cheat” on V. I went to a party last night (mostly young people, Teehee) and this guy who takes my dance class was there. He’s a great dancer and I feel turned on just looking at his body. He’s really cute. Last night I just felt like kissing him at various times. Then when we said good bye, there was a little linger, a peck on the cheek…I liked it : )

    I feel like what EMK (is he unmentionable here?) and Rori say a lot, which is maybe I’m imagining that my relationship with V is more than it is. I mean, I know I am not imagining him. I’m not imagining that he loves me, or vice versa. What I’m imagining is that that “means” something and that it means he is going to behave in a certain way. It doesn’t mean that, as has been demonstrated. I wish it were different. I can’t make it different. I can only decide what I accept

  224.  #224Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 5:23 am

    Thanks, Indigo!

    I’m not sure what will happen, but I wasn’t sure to begin with. Now I have to give it time.

    Time for him to see the email

    Time for him to read it

    Time for him to process it

    Time for him to figure out what HE is going to do.

    And meanwhile I take care of my own stuff. Wish he was present to support me, but I can’t change that either…

  225.  #225Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 5:24 am

    “The right man will cross oceans for you. He will move mountains to be with you.” (Mat Boggs)

  226.  #226Victoria on May 10, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Indigo, Azure.
    So let me see if I can practice what I preach.
    F. made plans for us for today on Friday, Saturday both he and I were busy.
    So, here comes Sunday, and I woke up to an email sayng that unfortunately he can’t keep up with our plans, he is very sorry, and feeling very stupid cancelling, he loves me and could I please call him tonight at a certain time.
    I wrote back to him the following.
    “I would like to know why you are cancelling our plans. I am not mad with you, I just don’t understand. You said you wanted to see me, made the plans, I made sure to be available for you. Otherwise, I will make some lemonade out of this lemon, will use the time to work on my pet project. I love you. “,
    I think I was pretty authentic with this one, except for the part that I am not mad. But actually, I am less mad than I would normally be, I kind of really take it as a sign from the universe that I need to invest a few hours in my pet project, I have been wanting to do it for a while.
    I am still thinking whether to call him tonight at 8 as he requested me to do… Will see how I feel around that time.

  227.  #227Victoria on May 10, 2015 at 5:41 am

    When I think about my story with F., I realize that he is what he is, he will never change. His inability to make adequate plans, the propensity to cancell – it is not because of me. He has a problem with this, as well as with time management, he is screwing his life, his work relationships, his personal relationships because of that. And, as tempting as it is, it is not my job to teach him how to do it better. I see he has a certain “disability” and I am trying to love him inspite of it. It was imortant to stop overfunctioning, which I did, I feel liberated. I am also CDing again, with other men, and loving me. Not too bad overall.

  228.  #228Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Yay Victoria!

    I feel so glad you are CDing with other men, and focusing on your work!

  229.  #229Kath on May 10, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Azure- I can soo relate with everything you have said. All my hopes for a second chance with R were dashed last night at the party. If I were being truly honest though I would admit that I had been listening to him more closely over the past few days and really taking note of how I was feeling. I had come to the decision that it didn’t feel right. He wasn’t the man for me. He may be a perfectly wonderful man for someone else but just not for me. I didn’t feel like I was a priority to him- I felt just as I had done before-like I was on the list and he’d get to me when he’d done everything else for everyone else.

    Last night at the party-which was fine until his “only true friend” walked in. I have always passionately disliked her, don’t like the way she behaves and don’t trust her-and there are many other people who think the same. But R’s daughter had invited her to the party, so I tried very hard to rise above my intense feelings. However, when she walked in she went straight up to him and he gave her a massive hug and a huge smile- something he never does with me. He bought her a drink and then chatted to her for quite a while-she never came and talked to me once, or even acknowledged my existence until later when she’d bought a round or drinks. We were standing around a bar table with R’s Sister, daughter, X wife, her partner- all very sociable and R’s friend lent over and put her hand on mine. I smiled at her and said “Take your hand off mine”- she immediately pulled her hand away and made it obvious to the others that someone had happened between us. I had said it quietly so that only she would hear but she is neither subtle or dignified and seemed to take great delight in showing me to be the person victimizing her!- It went down hill from there with me ending up telling her exactly what I thought of her and marching out of the pub. All the time R did nothing!- I got a taxi home and this morning decided that I was going to end it with him because he hadn’t changed at all!- He still put her feelings and welfare above mine-as he always had-and I wanted to feel special and wanted and yes, loved!-

    He beat me to it though-his text read; “There was no need for that last night. You have not changed. I don’t want anything to do with you ever again”

    I feel so angry and judged by him!- I know he triggered me in ways that I don’t want to be triggered-but I have learned not to make a man fit. Going to be very kind to me today

  230.  #230Victoria on May 10, 2015 at 7:05 am

    I am so sorry to hear about the party and the recurring break-up.
    You know we are all a bunch of recidivists here, so, welcome back sister, I want to hug you and we can cry on each others shoulders.

  231.  #231Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 7:14 am


  232.  #232Kath on May 10, 2015 at 8:04 am

    Victoria and Indigo, thank you- I feel sad but I have to say relieved. He was asking me to do something that meant I wouldn’t be genuine. He wanted me to accept her and I just couldn’t do that. He didn’t even tell me she was going to the party!- Last night and the last couple of days really just showed me that he wasn’t and isn’t what I want. It was starting to feel like hard work again-constantly hearing about his aches and pains and any ailment that he had or was worried about. I was starting to feel glad that we didn’t live together anymore!- and even before going to the party last night I made up my mind that I was coming home and not staying at his-so I guess I ended it with a flourish!- bit too dramatic granted!- but he has lost out not me. I will find who I am looking for- he is out there somewhere! xx

  233.  #233Victoria on May 10, 2015 at 8:22 am

    I fully symphatize with you. It is such a turn-off when a man starts complaining about aches and pains. It is one of the things I find hard to accept in F. – he has high blood pressure, and acid reflux and other related things, and is constantly so tired… He keeps complimenting me on my healthy life style and has been surpirses that I never complain about any ailmenst, but he would still would not change his own choices.
    That being said, you know having expectations that men would do miracles to please us, is unrealistic. I mean, like what Tereana posted in 225, that the right man will cross oceans and mountains… The thing is, the right man will probably make a lot of sacrifices to help his woman in danger, but in reality your situation was not such. From his perspective, he probably thinks he told you what is his boundary, you told him yours, but you two never negotiated a compromise. Very sad and very instructive for me.

  234.  #234Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Hugggss!!! Yes…
    For me it was important to give it another try…
    Especially sense Spirit (for 4 months) kept insisting HE was the ONE for ME…
    But, Like you are saying…

    And too many triggers…
    I have dated tons of men who were sooo easy to be with…
    Consitent… I never duoghted I was NO.1
    Now that I know that is *EXACTLY* what I want,,,
    I know I will find HIM!!
    Good luck to us darling Siren!!!

  235.  #235Kath on May 10, 2015 at 8:38 am

    (((Azure Blu))))

    So many triggers!!!- I was always made to feel that it was me who was wrong and needed help and not him!- Even his Sister said to me yesterday that they were a strange family because of the way they were brought up- and I agreed!- R could be a lovely man, has so many qualities but is so messed up emotionally that he is such hard work!!-

    I don’t see why I should want anything less than for a man to want to put me first- to want to make me happy and get joy from seeing me happy. With him it was almost as though he was doing a chore- For example, the other day he text me to invite me to dinner at his house and I said yes, thanks I could really do with some TLC. In bed the next morning he held me close and said “Was that enough TLC last night” why on earth would he need to ask that??-My happiness and smiling and saying thank you for a lovely meal and showing him affection should have told him!-

    My text response to him this morning was very angry- I said how dare he not show me any love or loyalty and how dare he put her feelings and welfare above mine!- I do feel very angry that he feels he has the moral high ground!- but I will have to let that go.

    I am looking forward to a lovely hot bubble bath later with some favourite music and then another good night’s sleep!- We’ll be fine Azure! xxx

  236.  #236Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Kath – Ugh. R sounds like he is definitely not the right guy for you. Too bad you didn’t get to tell him yourself!! But at least you got to figure it out on your own. And by putting it the way he did, he’s not even really taking responsibility – he’s making it about you. To me it sounds like you weren’t the one who created the drama. He was, and his “special friend.” They can be “special” together. He’s the one who hasn’t changed. You actually have, which is why you can see that he hasn’t.

  237.  #237Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Happy Mother’s day to all the mamas on the blog!!

    And here’s to the intention that I might one day get to celebrate this as a mama myself

  238.  #238Leigha Lake on May 10, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Millie… I just wanted to chime in here and say I think you’re doing amazing processing everything. I remember going through a very similar situation (more than once actually!) and I know it feels really bad. I truly believe everything happens for a reason and yet it doesn’t make things easier or less painful at times. You’re sooo on the right track!!!

    I really like what Tereana said in 211.

    Azure… I love that you set a timeline and even though you’re feeling so fed up and frustrated with Spirit – you’re seeing exactly who he is and what he’s capable of. This is a good thing!!! You’re making yourself available… your Mr.Right will find YOU. 🙂

    I’m cheering for all of you!! 🙂

    Much Love, Leigha

  239.  #239Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Tereana… I agree with Indigo…
    I love what you said to V

  240.  #240Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 9:26 am


    I just wanted to say that I dated a man once with “special” female friends. One was a girl he was in love with once upon a time, and the other was a girl who was his “best friend” and “like a sister to him” (yet oddly they used to take road trips together and she used to stay at his family’s house, and call him up when she felt “lonely”). Needless to say I wasn’t ok with all of this, but he repeatedly said, and made me feel, that these friends of his were super important and he would never give them up, blah blah blah. The fact that I never suggested he give them up but simply didn’t want to feel like they were constantly invading our space as a couple and suggested he diminish their importance in his life, meant that I got the full brunt of his lecture about how I was the problem, not them.

    At the time, I really doubted myself, wondered if I was being unnecessarily insecure and making too big a deal of it… but I have since realised I am so much happier without such a man in my life. It’s a boundary for me now – female friends are fine, but close female friends are an absolute no-go for me.

  241.  #241Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Ohhh… thank you lovely Siren…
    It makes me feel heard and comforted reading your encouragement!
    As Rori and you say… That is why we lean back and open our hearts…
    to see who they are and IF *THEY* can do relationship!

    Sooo sad he can’t… (REally) He is offering sooo little

    i will get thru this!

    And a much better door is opening
    because I am one man closer to finding Mr. Right!

  242.  #242Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:37 am

    Victoria #226
    Wow!! great job at being authentic with F!!!

  243.  #243Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Indigo #220
    Thank you for your sincere and wise understanding of Spirit…
    I agree… and totally embrace the fact that this has NOT much to do with ME
    and everything to do with HIM…

    Yes, maybe I could wait it out… but unlike you,
    My age does NOT allow me to hang out wondering if Spirit might someday be capable of
    consistent, close, loving contact/marriage!

    I’ve been alone toooooo long…

    Like Dominique says
    I need to accept Spirit just as he is…
    and that just doesn’t fit into MY
    Happily ever after!
    Sooo sad… :-((
    It was feeling hopeful there for a minute

  244.  #244Kath on May 10, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Indigo, I so hear you!!- R is a man who can’t let anyone go- he keeps friends with his x-wife and regularly meets up with her for meals etc. His special friend is indeed an X girlfriend- and he keeps close contact with another x-girlfriend as well and I was supposed to be totally ok with all of this- even not minding when the contact became flirtatious!

    Our first date was to a pub and we stood at the bar and I looked round and realised that no less than four of the women we were standing with were women he’d been intimate with!- I whispered in his ear that I wasn’t going to be one of his hareem!- I think he thought I was joking!

    I could handle the fact that he spent time and money on his Sister and his daughter but other women??!!– Oh no!- not for me. I know its his choice, but I have made mine. Mr Right is still out there for me!

  245.  #245Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Happy Mother’s day to all the lovely mothers on Siren Island!!!
    Enjoy, Rejoice and Relax!!!

  246.  #246Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Victoria #219
    Ohhh… lovely one! I love you too!!!

    You have never rained on my parade…
    I sooo enjoy your wise take on life and your wonderful insights you share so easily here on Siren Island!!!

    He included me in his after golf hanging out 2 weeks ago and that made it all fine… It was sooo lovely to hang out with him and HIS buddies (we ALWAYS hang out with mine)

    Consistently, For one reason or another (he seems to be able to handle soooo little),
    he needs to take 2 weeks off from us seeing each other…
    This does NOT work for me…
    He isn’t wrong… I’m NOT wrong…
    We are simply different!

    Tooo sad to say…
    BUT time to move on…

  247.  #247Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Alll my friends, family and even a couple of ex’s
    have textd me Happy Mother’s day wishes
    He ignored (so far) my plea for help in understanding
    what is going on (he usually takes time to process)

    He NEVER likes to acknowledge any special days unless they are about drinking!

    Crumbs… that is all he really offers…

    I want the WHOLE cake…
    This isn’t HIS problem…
    it is MINE…

    Sooo next week is the 2nd week in his 2 week cycle of withdrawing…
    He’ll come back the week after…
    With all his handsome, energy and charm
    That gives me time to get stronger…

    Thank you ALLLLLL for your Wonderful, LOVE and Support!

  248.  #248Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 11:28 am

    Femininewoman 210-

    I’m not worried about Down’s syndrome, even if I do have another baby. I would love my baby, Down’s Syndrome or not, but I really don’t buy into the “over 35” fear tactics, because I know tons of women who have had healthy children over the age of 35, including my own mother. If I were to get remarried before the age of 43 or so, I would definitely be wanting to have another baby, if at all possible.

    S and I have been sleeping together for over a year without condoms and he’s never given me an STD, so I’m not really concerned about that either. I’m in great physical health and have had very easy pregnancies and natural, unmedicated, births. There has been no “abuse” to my body. I am in pretty good shape, especially for someone with 5 kids, if I do say so myself! Not to be flippant, but I’m really not afraid of dying during birth either, I think that’s very unlikely.

    This idea that S is the type of man that would be “out the door in a second” is completely unfounded too. He’s one of the most steady men I have ever met and that is one of the things I love about him. He may freak out but he will never run away. He doesn’t like people leaving his life and has made that clear to me on several occasions. The fact that I have cut men off in the past, that I am not longer seeing, bothers him. Actually, and he is always telling me it’s not okay to solve issues between us by saying I’m done.

    Anyway, I may be freaking out over nothing. I took a pregnancy test this morning and it appears to be negative. My period is due today and it hasn’t started yet but maybe S’s paranoia rubbed off on me.

  249.  #249Millie on May 10, 2015 at 11:30 am

    238– Leigha!!!!! I’m so excited and happy that you wrote to me!! I have been reading your “bring him back blueprint” religiously and your words have really been a part of my healing and processing and given me a lot of strength. You wrote that when space is created and the man does not close the gap… Then he’s not the one for you. Period. Unfortunately, I am beginning to think that is my reality and as much as I don’t want to beleive it, don’t want to face it, don’t want to let him go, am fighting with myself not to reach out, not to give in…. I know the lighthouse is who I need to be. Plain and simple. My light just needs to shine steadily. Ah I hope it gets better!! I hope someone new and wonderful walks into my life as a result of all of this.

  250.  #250Azure Blu on May 10, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    {{{millie #249}}}}
    You ARE a lighthouse!!!
    So sweet! So warm… and open hearted…
    and Yes, keep holding strong..
    You are being so brave!!
    NOT to contact him for all this time…

    When my ex broke up with me after 2 years
    of misery…
    I finally realized I had enough!! I started CDing
    and met some really nice men online dating…
    sure enough… 8 weeks later…
    he called me and wanted to take me on a romantic date downtown with all the trimmings…
    it felt VERY good to say to him
    “Your coldness, lieing and meanness has killed any love I had for you…
    Don’t EVER contact ME again…”

    Hang in there darling!!
    We are here for you!

  251.  #251Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    I’ve been kind of emotional/hormonal, whether it’s pregnancy or just PMS. I feel like I get more aggressive and it’s harder to restrain myself from leaning forward or starting arguments.

    Last night I saw on the swinger site that S had a validation from a new woman and it bothered me, even though he really didn’t do anything wrong. I wasn’t SUPER bothered about it because she was too old for S to like marry and have kids with- and obviously more of a fling, but it was an attractive 50 yr old woman.

    In any case, I texted him and told him I saw it and that it made me feel bad because he hadn’t asked to see me in the two weeks since we last had sex. I said it felt kind of like I’d been pumped and dumped and that I felt all confused and abandoned and untrusting, since obviously he was sleeping with other people. I said I feel all left in the cold, like I never meant anything to you.

    Now obviously, he has called and talked to me since but it is kind of weird that he hasn’t asked to spend time with me, since normally we see each other a couple times a week, even when we aren’t having sex.

    He called and said it has nothing to do with you and that I wasn’t his girlfriend. I said I know and hung up the phone and started crying. He called back a couple minutes later and could tell I’d been crying. He said I dont want you to be upset, do you want to come over and hang out and watch tv? We don’t have to do anything.

    I said ok, and went over to his place. He gave me some advil and ginger ale since I had a headache and wasn’t feeling very well. After a little bit of talking and watching television, he asked me what I wanted to do. He asked if I wanted to play with him and I said yes.

    So we had sex… After about 3 rounds and lots of cuddling and talking I said I needed to go home. He was playing around, saying he felt like I was pumping and dumping him and asked for some more, so we had sex again.

    He was affectionate and sweet afterwards, as usual. He made a couple of comments about me wanting a boyfriend and I said I kind of do. He said “you deserve that” and “I don’t want you to feel used by me”.

    When I got dressed to leave he said wait, I want to walk you down to your car. He hasn’t done that in awhile, but he used to, and he said because it was late and dark he felt like he should. When I got home I sent a thank you text and said it made me feel safe and protected.

    Just a little bit ago he texted to tell me “you were good in the sack last night”. Lol

    I realize it’s all just sex stuff and he’s not showing any kind of inclination to commit to me right now. I feel like I’m okay with that at the moment. I will continue to date others for now. If it turns out that I actually am pregnant, I’m sure it will be a roller coaster, but I know he would be committed to the child, if not to me, and he would care about communication. I know it would all work out in the end.

  252.  #252Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    I’ve been kind of emotional/hormonal, whether it’s pregnancy or just PMS. I feel like I get more aggressive and it’s harder to restrain myself from leaning forward or starting arguments.

    Last night I saw on the swinger site that S had a validation from a new woman and it bothered me, even though he really didn’t do anything wrong. I wasn’t SUPER bothered about it because she was too old for S to like marry and have kids with- and obviously more of a fling, but it was an attractive 50 yr old woman.

    In any case, I texted him and told him I saw it and that it made me feel bad because he hadn’t asked to see me in the two weeks since we last had sex. I said it felt kind of like I’d been pumped and dumped and that I felt all confused and abandoned and untrusting, since obviously he was sleeping with other people. I said I feel all left in the cold, like I never meant anything to you.

    Now obviously, he has called and talked to me since but it is kind of weird that he hasn’t asked to spend time with me, since normally we see each other a couple times a week, even when we aren’t having sex.

    He called and said it has nothing to do with you and that I wasn’t his girlfriend. I said I know and hung up the phone and started crying. He called back a couple minutes later and could tell I’d been crying. He said I dont want you to be upset, do you want to come over and hang out and watch tv? We don’t have to do anything.

    I said ok, and went over to his place. He gave me some advil and ginger ale since I had a headache and wasn’t feeling very well. After a little bit of talking and watching television, he asked me what I wanted to do. He asked if I wanted to play with him and I said yes.

    So we had sex… After about 3 rounds and lots of cuddling and talking I said I needed to go home. He was playing around, saying he felt like I was pumping and dumping him and asked for some more, so we had sex again.

    He was affectionate and sweet afterwards, as usual. He made a couple of comments about me wanting a boyfriend and I said I kind of do. He said “you deserve that” and “I don’t want you to feel used by me”.

    When I got dressed to leave he said wait, I want to walk you down to your car. He hasn’t done that in awhile, but he used to, and he said because it was late and dark he felt like he should. When I got home I sent a thank you text and said it made me feel safe and protected.

    Just a little bit ago he texted to tell me “you were good in the sack last night”. Lol

    I realize it’s all just sex stuff and he’s not showing any kind of inclination to commit to me right now. I feel like I’m okay with that at the moment. I will continue to date others for now. If it turns out that I actually am pregnant, I’m sure it will be a roller coaster, but I know he would be committed to the child, if not to me, and he would care about communication. I know it would all work out in the end.

  253.  #253Leigha Lake on May 10, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Millie, you’re so welcome and I’m so so happy it’s helping you!!!

    The Lighthouse Tool is definitely one of my ALL TIME favorite tools. It can be applied in so many areas of our lives. 🙂

    IF he’s not the one for you – if he doesn’t close the gap – It’s ABSOLUTELY because there’s someone else better for you. I’m 100% confident about this!!

    It’s only going to get better for you from here. You’ve already transformed. After we learn how men and relationships really work – there’s no going back. 🙂

    Love, Leigha

  254.  #254Millie on May 10, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    Lovergirl— I have a question. If S is sleeping with other women and not using protection with you, do you think he is using it with other women? I feel concerned for your physical safety in this situation. What do you think?

  255.  #255Millie on May 10, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Azure– thank you so much!!! I feel we are going through much of the same right now and it feels so good to have your support and insight!! Thank you 🙂

    Leigha– Yay! I feel so happy hearing this, that it only gets better!! He started off being a better man than anyone else I dated, so if that’s a sign of the direction I’m heading in, then that is great! And the next guy will be even greater than him! (I hope) Thank you 🙂

  256.  #256Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    Millie- I’m comfortable with the level of risk we are taking. I realize swinging in itself is controversial and maybe something I shouldn’t have mentioned on this blog. I’m not really here to discuss things like my health, birth control or stds.

  257.  #257April Rose on May 10, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Thank you Tereana and Indigo for your responses.
    I’m pondering here, why I so often attract men who become infatuated with me.
    It’s weird.
    Is it a form of avoiding intimacy?
    What is stopping me from attracting a man who sees me and gets me?

    I feel very curious about what you said, Tereana, “… deep in his heart, he doesn’t believe that you can or will love him back the same way…”
    What is going on, here?

  258.  #258Waterfall on May 10, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    I am really intrigued reading everyone’s posts on the blog! I feel like I know everyone, and everyone’s amazing and unfolding stories….

    @ Lovergirl – Wow, you are such a strong and amazing woman! All I can say is that I am in awe of your commitment to staying true to yourself and your unwavering belief in your relationship with S.

    @ Azure Blu – Sweet siren! Wow, you are speaking from the heart and it is inspiring to read. How does if feel to be so vulnerable and standing up for your beautiful siren self?

    @ Sophie – I feel so inspired by all your travel adventures! Yay, you are back..

    I have had several texts and emails from D. He is out and about on his own adventures. He doesn’t tell me he misses me. He hasn’t asked to see me. He doesn’t even seem to want to know where I am, who I am with or what I am doing.

    He has sent me pictures of where he is. I responded with a kurt response and he immediately tried to call me. I didn’t respond. I haven’t responded it. It is hard.

    I am leaning back but it is hard. Sometimes I am happy and fine, but then sometimes I feel vulnerable and wobbly.

    Yesterday I had so much fun. I helped my friend with her party. It was great. We ate, we drank, we mingled, we laughed, we entertained and we danced… if only every Saturday could be as wonderful as that…

  259.  #259Waterfall on May 10, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    * curt not kurt!!! Lol… I type too fast..

  260.  #260Millie on May 10, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    Lovergirl— I sense you are feeling defensive, and I want to apologize if anything I said came across in a judgemental way. I have no judgement towards swinging…at all. There are many types of relationships that are not monogamous and everyone has a right to choose what it right for them. Thank you for clarifying what you do not feel comfortable talking about here, I won’t make any further comments regarding those topics.

  261.  #261Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    April 256 – yes.

    What I meant was that he was/is too wrapped up in his head to really love you. The other guys who did that, too. But I’m not trying to say it’s something aboit you. I’m saying it’s something about them. If you keep “attracting” this, then maybe there is a counterpoint on your end. Maybe there is something safe and comfortable about knowing a man feels strong feelings for you but can’t truly love you. (One speculation)

    I can’t answer the question, what is going in here? But to ask yourself that question is a really good place to start healing what needs to be healed…,

  262.  #262Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Azure Blu, I’m glad you liked what I write, too!

    I just went back on OKC for the first time in a while. Ugh, slim pickings. One guy out and just said he was looking for something casual. I said no, thank you. The other guys who seemed interesting are all older than me to the point where I’m not feeling attracted.

    I guess I like dating guys who are around my same age. Or at this point I think I’d date someone up to 10 years younger. That is if he had a lot of emotional maturity, knew how to show up for a woman, and was able to consistently demonstrate that he was interested in maintaining a relationship. That, I could get into…

  263.  #263April Rose on May 10, 2015 at 3:58 pm


    I’d love to hear your thoughts and feelings on what makes a man emotionally mature. What does it look like?
    (I have always been in the dark a bit about this).

  264.  #264Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 4:21 pm


    The thing is, I’m really not all that interested in “dating other people.” I like my dance student. He’s super sexy. I’d jump h in a second. Lol. But in the other hand what I really want is a good, strong, solid relationship with Vikas. If he’s my man already, then he’s the one I want giving me attention. I’ll just be open to it if I have to find another solution…

    And mothers day has me thinking about “secure attachments” and how my relationship with my own mother was and continues to be “insecure,” and inconsistent. And as I write this I’m realizing with full clarity that those are the exact words that describe all of my intimate relationships. And I want so much for this to be healed. And I don’t know how it’s possible, but I’m going to hold out some faith in the idea that it might still happen

    I think I’ll do a ritual

    Thanks for listening…

  265.  #265Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Oops I wrote his whole name. Yipes!! I’m too tired…

  266.  #266Zia on May 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    My fiance and I had a couple of arguments over the weekend. Once it was all settled down he said to me “I *love* how passionate you get when you fight!”

    Even though I’m not perfect and don’t always use my feeling messages in the heat of an argument, I find myself taking the space to clear my head if I need it, if there is nothing more to say I walk away instead of in the past when I would just push, push, push… the last argument we had I took the dog for a walk, and by the time I got back he just started talking to me and spilled all his feelings and emotions and I was able to just stand and listen… and we were fine. But prior to that he was closed right up. It feels good to be ok with giving a guy his space, but also recognizing that its ok for ME to take a walk or have my space. By the time I came back I wasn’t angry anymore and neither was he.

  267.  #267Zia on May 10, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    Lovergirl – I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with feeling like you’d like to be pregnant or want a baby. Nothing at all, I don’t see it as taboo. I remember when I was getting close to 30, it was what I wanted too even though I was single. The only thing I want to bring up, is the consideration that what if S does want to be a dad, but wants to do so without the commitment? Are you ok with the possibility of being a single mother with 6 kids, two different dads? I hear you when you say you think he’d be a committed father HOWEVER there is of course a possibility that he might want to do the part time dad thing – are you ok with that?

  268.  #268Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    Zia 266- That would be hard, and scary, but if I am already pregnant at this point then I will have to go with it. I’ve already got 5 kids and since the divorce their dad hardly has really drifted off in terms of involvement. I don’t feel like S could be much worse than that. He’s pretty adamant about how awful he thinks my ex is for not stepping up to the plate more too.

    All of that stuff is scary but mostly the social stigma. I don’t think we’d be any worse off financially (S makes good money and would have to pay child support even if he wasn’t going over and above, which I believe he would). My kids are ages 5-15 so the older ones would totally dote on a baby and I would have lots of help. Even when I was married I did pretty much everything with no help, so I know I’m capable of that. Not saying it would be easy, but I could do it. My youngest was 8 months old when I divorced.

    It’s not like I’m trying to go out of my way to have another baby right now, its that I think there is a very good chance I might be ALREADY pregnant. I took another test tonight since my period still is not starting and it looks like there may be a very faint line.

  269.  #269Zia on May 10, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Lovergirl – I guess give it another day or two and if still no period go for a blood test?

    The only other thing that bothers me a bit, is the fact that if S didn’t pull out in time, and didn’t tell you – does that not feel a bit dishonest? Especially if you have decided together that this it the method you’d be using? To me it’s the equivalent of a woman saying she’s on the pill but she isn’t.

  270.  #270Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Zia- yes it’s dishonest if he did that. Chances are, if he did, that it was an in the moment thing and he was afraid to tell me. Then had regrets the next day and thats why he flipped, but is still afraid to admit it. Heck, im afraid to admit to him I think I might be pregnant too and am kind of playing dumb right now. So its not unforgivable.

    Im sure I will know for sure within the next couple of days. I kind of want to wait and see if I have an early miscarriage again before telling him, but I will say something if he asks.

    Funny thing is he knows my period is due today and has asked me to keep him updated and tell him if I start. I haven’t, and he hasnt said a word about it.

  271.  #271Lovergirl on May 10, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Waterfall and Millie- thank you for your kind words and understanding.

  272.  #272Linda on May 10, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    Azure: You have it together honey whether you feel like it or not. I feel in agreement with Indigo. You two may be reading the same book, but you are like 3 chapters ahead ! I feel curious have you ever had a discussion with each other about what each of you wants, or needs, or would like to have in a relationship? (after you got back together I mean). I wonder if he thought every thing was just hunky dorie up until you called him back.
    Not saying that is what should happen or that you should in any way initiate. I was just curious.

    I remember when I was seeing P and we were exclusive, he expected so much of me and was mad at me if I did not comply. He would say.. “we are a couple and we do things TOGETHER” …. you dont pick and choose” !! I was like ummm OMG What??? (he expected me to attend every thing he did with him. In particular all of his little girls( age 9) activities, cheering events, EVERY Saturday for a pee wee football team.. (third graders) sitting in the hot sun. Even the off weeks-ends he did not have her. He is a loyal father which I admired and I loved her to death… but let me have some time to myself and don’t pout about it please!!!! It was just one of the many things that did not work for me. If I had had a previous conversation with him about what would and would not work it might have gone better.

    Spirit might evolve more but if it were me, I would be doing just what you are. Taking myself off the exclusive list, removing any hopes and all of my energy away from him. He has had plenty of time to step up and in and fill up the space that your leaning back has created.

    One of the things in my mantra is… a man is not real if he is not in front of me. okay… and a deeper level of that is ” He does not get space in my brain either”.

    Sometimes we dont know what our deal breakers are until we encounter them or we are not fully aware of what we need until we dont have it. Spirit may have caught your attention but up to this point he has done nothing to keep it! Every man that comes into our lives has a message for us. Store the message in your heart and take a long cool drink of water and keep on walking. hugs to you !!!!

    How rude for him to not even with you a generic Happy Moms Day! grrrr

  273.  #273Linda on May 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    Speaking of Mothers Day. I has such a DELIGHTFUL day!!! It started at church with my daughters and grandsons. and then on to

    My daughters and I going to a wine and canvas event and had absolute BEST time EVER! All three of us are creative and artistic. My oldest is an art school grad and graphic designer. My youngest is a cosmotologist, hair, makeup, colorist. Me.. I dabble in all kinds of stuff, from calligraphy to event planning to interior decorating.

    It was so so much FUN . After we went to my moms for easy light dinner and we talked and ate and laughed. Gifts were exchanged… and my mother gave us all an open heart pendants!!! I even got matching earings !!! I was so so so astonished! They are beautiful each similar and signifying our family unity. WHAT a WONDERFUL DAY I had.

  274.  #274Linda on May 10, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    Kath: My heart goes out to you! Sometimes we just simply have that “what if” or a feeling of unfinished business with a man.

    R sounds like a “collector”. (I saw this on Millionaire Matchmaker). All of these relationships feed something in his ego. He really needs to clean house! If he had then this would not have even been in issue. Clearly it all works for this man just the way it is and he sees absolutely no need to change any of it for anyone. And thats okay . Now you know exactly what you need to know.

    He is indeed the one who has not changed and it sounds like the “bestie” just wanted to rub herself and her position in his life in your face! Girl… I would have lost it too!

    Amazing the stuff people do, simply amazing!

  275.  #275Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    April Rose – I like your question and I like that you assume I might have the answer. Well, maybe I do.

    It looks like, for example, a man who brings up issues by talking about them, instead of retreating into conforting behaviors or grouchiness or aggressiveness.

    It would look like a man who puts the woman first without being asked to do so because it is part of his personal moral code. And not in a condescending way. In a way that truly honors her because he is so in awe of her beauty and her strength that he can’t help it.

    It would look like a man with good boundaries, who listens, and who knows what it means to have a connection with a woman even though he doesn’t fully understand everything.

    That’s not the whole picture, but it’s a start.

    Honestly, I think you know what it looks like. It’s like p8rn or good art: you know it when you see it

  276.  #276Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    Zia – 265: love it!!!

  277.  #277Tereana on May 10, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Ladies, I’ve been having a really intense discussion all day with my ex from last year. We broke up in the spring and I felt bad about it. And he reached out to me recently. So today I reached back to tell him something cute. He thanked me, and then he started telling me lots of details about his life. It was good to be in touch. Healing.

    He ended up opening up to me and sharing something with me that’s very personal. I think it’s cool that he did.

    And I had, by way of the conversation a really big insight about my relationship with my mom. It could even be life-changing. I’m in awe.

    So this day has been fruitful. I’m glad I gave myself the space I needed. I’ve realky receiving some wonderful healing. And I feel very good about moving forward from here….

  278.  #278Indigo on May 10, 2015 at 11:02 pm


    Here’s something which really helped me understand the man with the harem, and made me roar with laughter too! Hope you enjoy 🙂

  279.  #279Victoria on May 11, 2015 at 1:22 am

    I has a strange experience this morning. I took a taxi to work, the driver was good looking and my age. He was making conversation the whole time, overall a pleasant guy except that I really do not like taxi drivers, in my country they tend to be rude, short-tempered and visibly uneducated (trying to be politically correct here :-)).
    Anyhow, he first mentioned his ex, then some mean bi*ch at a job he once had, and then, out of nowhere he told me that he is now separated with the woman he has been living with for 5 years. Two months ago another woman posted his picture on her FB, saying he was “best lover in the world” which his girlfriend read as infidelity, and she moved out. Now she is begging him to take her back. He said he loves her, but is deeply insulted by her, and just could not allow her back in his life. I could tell he wanted to talk, but we reached my address, and my phone rang so I had to leave.
    I am wondering did I just make him confortable to spill his heart in frong of me, or was this a lame attempt at hitting at me.
    I had a very similar experience last week with another taxi driver, who explained to me how he is alone raising his 4 year old since the mother left them. He also gave me his phone number, in case I want to use his taxi services again.
    I wonder what’s going on.

  280.  #280Indigo on May 11, 2015 at 1:52 am


    Your post made me laugh. I’m not sure if it was uncomfortable for you or not, but I found it funny. You see, I have had countless men, from casual acquaintances to good friends, do the same thing with me in the last 2 or 3 years, ie. ever since I started practicing “siren principles”. People say men don’t open up about their feelings, but I have found the reverse to be true with these men. They opened up to me about their woes with women, their failed relationships, their current difficulties. Sometimes they asked for advice, sometimes they just poured out their hearts. I have 2 good male friends who do this every time they see me, who come to me like the oracle they can confide in. I have to say I don’t entirely enjoy it. I mean, I’m flattered that they feel vulnerable enough to confide in me, but it does get a bit tedious and self-centred and repetitive. Am I being heartless?

  281.  #281Zia on May 11, 2015 at 5:53 am

    When my fiance and I got together, one of the questions I asked was if he was open to the idea of having kids. At the time, I really wanted another. He said he was open to it, but he was waaaaaay more on the side of “No, never”. He really didn’t want them. The fact that he was open to it was enough for me. As time went on together, I actually started to feel quite comfortable with the idea of not having any together, as I already have a son. I never pressed it with him, I never pushed it. I basically came to the conclusion that if HE decided on his own that he really really really wants kids together, then I will absolutely love that – but if not, I’m happy with the life we have. Well guess what? Just over a year together and he has done a complete 180. It has been slowly progressing this way, with him saying things that made me realise he was becoming more and more open to it, but I still never pushed it with him nor made him feel rushed. For a while there was a bit of back and forth, push and pull, but now he’s firmly in the “yes” camp. He is such an amazing role model for my son, and they adore each other.

    He is soooooo excited about the idea now. And I feel nervous and scared but also excited!

  282.  #282Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 6:15 am

    Zia… #280
    Thank you soooo much for sharing your journey with your amazing man…
    Showing the Rori tools in action within a committed relationship!
    This is a lovely example of letting go and NOT controlling AND taking care of YOU…

  283.  #283Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 6:23 am

    Congratulations on looking forward to the addition of a child with your fiance!!!

  284.  #284Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 8:27 am

    Tereana #274
    Wow… I LOVE, love what you are saying here.
    Such deep and profound insight into what a
    good consistent, connected relationship needs to look like…
    I totally agree…
    I am pasting and copying into my archives!!

  285.  #285Mandy on May 11, 2015 at 8:39 am

    Well….now I’m totally feeling the need to be done with J.

    It is getting old now, and now I am interested in new horizons. The pain isn’t there anymore when I think about not having him around, and just going through the self-fulfilling prophecy of him not giving me anything so I’m forced to go, which gives him every reason to a I told you so, but I’m just starting not to give a flip.

    I remember someone here once told me they got a very cold vibe from J, not like the warm vibe I give.

    That really stuck with me, and I know J just isn’t the right man or me. If he was, I’d be on board with all this, and I’m not on board with any of it. I can’t stand his job problems, I can’t stand the instability, the constant criticism when it’s the pot calling the kettle black and the lack of affection and fun, and finally, the alcoholism and verbal abuse when he’s drunk. Jeez, it’s hard to even tell if he’s still got a pulse sometimes.

    I am preparing for feeling what it’s like to dump someone. I have to put myself through this. I have one life to live.

    What if I did want marriage? What if I did want one child? Now’s the time to allow possibility. I’m 33 and I’m not getting any younger and I have just been diagnosed with Ehler’s-Danlos syndrome and arthritis and I have absolutely no intention of slowing down.

    The most fun thing about life is that it COULD change at any moment…I have to believe in that.

    Where I felt pain about it before…I now feel strength. Before I felt at his mercy. Now I feel I have the strength to choose. The strength to choose is everything.

    It will come, the day will come when I’ve had enough and I have to say the speech. This isn’t working out, we should stay friends but I’d like you to move out so I can start healing and seeing others.

    The only thing I care about now is he has one charge against him for breaking the glass window of his ex’s apartment and getting arrested for it when he wanted to talk to her and she’d had enough of him and wouldn’t let him in.

    I have an overnight bag prepared for if he gets belligerent, and my parents live up the sreet so I have an escape plan, it’s just I’ll only use it if I have to..this is my apartment, he’s not even on the lease and technically doesn’t live here. My mom had me keep it that way so it would be easier to break up with him believe or not.

    I guess what IS here is a best friendship. he and i can still be friends. I need to learn to be more strong on my own and not cornered into a crap situation. It’s BS< I've been living a life of a crap situation where the guy just won't budge on a certain issue. The first one wouldn't go to college or move ou of his crappy place, the second was verbally abusive, the third was a cheater, the fourth was a cheater and a narcissist, and now this one is an alcoholic with sexual aversion.

    What gives? Was Freud right? I've been thinking a lot about my father lately. I choose guys who act like him.

    Truth is, there aren't many people who act like my dad and make their way through life very happy. He is hyper-vigilant and freaks out over a spill of juice. Hence why I seem to think being overly critical towards me feels like love when truly I wish everyone would just leave me alone to be in peace and stop telling me everything that's wrong and how I could improve on my life. Manipulative people always hone in on the fact I have some different abilities and use that to make themselves feel better, and I need to find a person or people to be around who are genuinely caring and honest and not conniving manipulative bitter people who just want something from me.

    I need to get Toxic Men very badly. Obviously this is a pattern I keep running into…just very badly dispositioned people. Chip on the shoulder, mad because they're not tall enough, because they're not hot enough, mad because they can't have their cake and eat it too, mad because the woman in their life is doing better than they are…

    Tired of putting up with these attitude problems. I suppose my own oppositional defiance doesn't help but seriously though, if that's what I need to work on so be it, because I'm 33 and unmarried and I'm thinking it actually might be nice to lean back and let a guy row the boat…I'm very very tired.

    But I'm SO going to allow "G" to call me today…my best guy friend for about five years…I didn't realize he has always had feelings for me, albeit undeveloped ones. I know exactly how to fan those flames, no problem. it's when I get into the relationship where problems happen, lol. It's when they become the boyfriend that shit hits the fan, lol.

    G is someone I usually wouldn't be attracted to because he's so much like me – a joker, a playful guy, an extrovert, hiding nothing. No mystery. What you see is what you get, very sexual and humorous and warm and energetic. Very humorous, lol. Very attractive and very masculine. He gets things done. He doesn't put up with any crap, he's not an addict of any kind as far as I know. He only will withold affection i the other person isn't holding up their end of the bargain.

    Right now, he's with a friend of mine and he wants her to put on a sexy dress and heels to go to bed with him but she thinks she shouldn't need to do that to get him in bed with her. I could only wish J would ask me that. If G asked me…I'd have to slow it down and make it sensual because I'd be in so much of a hurry he might get turned off, lol.

    He's a great guy though the only reason he and she aren't working out is because they don't see eye to eye and she's too stubborn to change her attitude towards him.

    But me….him, I could definitely work it out with, lol…I'd definitely be open to negotiation with him!

    Okay so I just wanted to tell the Sirens that…I felt it before but I believe the feeling is finally taking hold and I'm just fried and done here in my current situation. I realize it's nothing to freak out over, it's just…I hate letting someone down. But he let me down way more than I could ever let him down already I believe. And it's just not as big a deal to me anymore. So he effed up…next…right? 😛

  286.  #286Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Linda #271
    Thank you for this lovely sharing with me!!!

    No, actually we havn’t had a conversation about what he might want in a relationship…
    On Sat…. When I mentioned what I am want in a relationship… I was hoping it was something he had in mind also…
    He said yes, that would be a good discussion to have…
    when he says he wants to talk about something He does always follow thru on talking about things…

    It will be important and interesting to hear…

    Yes, you are so right… I wasn’t sure in my heart what what would feel good, connection wise, for me in a relationship…
    So now I do know what that would look like…
    I have shared it with Spirit…
    I can’t imagine he has anything like that in mind…
    He may have something like that in mind..
    BUT can he do it is anther question…
    He has been saying since he first started courting me that he is looking for a committed long term relationship… course, I’ve said that for several years also but wasn’t really ready…
    Until practicing the Rori tools!!!

    I love what you said:
    ” Every man that comes into our lives has a message for us.
    Store the message in your heart
    and take a long cool drink of water
    and keep on walking.”

    FYI… he did text me a graphic image of tulips and a Happy Mothers day tag on it!

    Just leaning back and waiting until he processes his thoughts

    I do want to keep practicing being authentic…
    I want to ask him if he felt angry about ME not texting him back when he said “he was lonely”…

    I’m thinking it is always a good conversation to have with a man about what The whole expectations we each have around texting, phone calls
    what feels uncomfortable when the other person doesn’t respond within a reasonable amount of time…

    That was what I initially had gotten peeved about…
    I sent him a phone video, on Thur. morning, of the beautiful Spring blossoms in my court.. and he didn’t respond until late Fri. night!!!!!
    and it all went downhill from there…

    Thank you for listening and all your wonderful support!!

  287.  #287Femininewoman on May 11, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Oh wow ((((((((((((Mandy)))))))))))

  288.  #288April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 9:20 am


    Your answer to me is very precious.

    I’m not sure I have much experience of what an emotionally mature man looks like or feels like to have around. If any. Not my Dad, not my brother. Not past partners.

    When I read this, I wept.
    “It looks like, for example, a man who brings up issues by talking about them, instead of retreating into conforting behaviors or grouchiness or aggressiveness.

    It would look like a man who puts the woman first without being asked to do so because it is part of his personal moral code. And not in a condescending way. In a way that truly honors her because he is so in awe of her beauty and her strength that he can’t help it.

    It would look like a man with good boundaries, who listens, and who knows what it means to have a connection with a woman even though he doesn’t fully understand everything.”

  289.  #289April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 9:21 am

    I feel quite stunned.

    Talking about emotional maturity in men is purely theoretical for me.
    A fairy story.

  290.  #290April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 9:23 am


    I have to say I feel quite happy about what is happening to you. It’s a great example.

    No more drama. Simply feeling ‘turned off’ by a guy who isn’t treating you as the prize that you are.

  291.  #291Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 11:04 am

    April Rose #289
    So well put!
    I second that emotion!!!

    “No more drama. Simply feeling ‘turned off’ by a guy who isn’t treating you as the prize that you are.”

  292.  #292Sophie on May 11, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Thank you Waterfall it feels all warm and cosy to be invited back. Plenty more adventures planned for me – I feel excited about the next phase and the growth I’m feeling.

    Mandy – I love your status update too – it seems many of us seem to be simultaneously coming to the same point of just being tired of the effort and the drama and more protective of ‘needing’ our energies for ourselves. This may be my projection as it is certainly in my feelings right now…and i’m a great believer in the collective unconscious and wonder if things are shifting …(that’s possibly a bit radical for the blog apologies if it is)

    April Rose and Tereana – I’m feel curious too by the conversation about a mature man. One aspect of one of the grown up men I have recent contact with is a willingness to attempt to be self-aware and a desire to make proactive changes … not necessarily to please anyone but just to be a better person … I felt quite inspired and impressed and refreshed by that

    Iamhis – your comment about the younger man was left a bit hanging, I think? Did you want to try and explain your feelings further?

    I miss Veronica I hope she is well, and Kyla (lots of love to you both if you are reading)

  293.  #293Kim on May 11, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    Aw nooo…I am just catching up a little…Azure, I am sorry Spirit has withdrawn again..that must feel so sad and also I expect, quite annoying… that your timeline has passed and you are still exclusive and he kinda dropped off again.
    So frustrating, it all sounded so good a while ago.
    Hmmm….this hot and cold thing would drive me crazy….I remember men like this too, and we always want to bring it back to ourselves and ‘have we said the right thing’, ‘did he get annoyed by something we said/didn’t say, sent/didn’t send’ etc etc.
    Bottom line is, there are plenty of men out there who just can’t do relationship. Not the type that you and I would want.
    It doesn’t make any difference whether you send a text or not or didn’t deliver the perfect feeling message…they just can’t/won’t/have no intentions to change a thing.
    A man who needs space for two weeks would not work for me either, and it fuels our insecurities, our anger, whatever else it is because it isn’t what we want. Period.
    As you know, things with me and my guy haven’t always gone smoothly, but he has shown that he is willing and he wants to be with me, and he wants to communicate every day etc etc even when we weren’t living together….
    I have dated guys like Spirit too….and they don’t tend to change, or not enough to actually turn it into what I wanted, in the end I got bored with them…
    I am so proud of you that you signed back up with POf because I know how hard it is and how sad it must feel and how demoralizing, but believe me, you will find someone who cherishes you and doesn’t just drop off for 2 weeks or just semds you a measly text now and then – it’s not a relationship really.
    You deserve a man who wants to have fun times with you, make dates, go out for meals, wants to make YOU happy.
    He is out there…I know it.

  294.  #294Millie on May 11, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Online dating can be pretty depressing. I’m not finding anyone i like and they few that I did have seem to have dropped the ball. I get a ton of messages and “So and so wants to meet you” all day… I’m trying to be open, but nothing is clicking yet. Oh well… I read some of Leigha again last night and she said the key to getting the relationship you want is patience. Something I need to LEARN! So patient I will be… Patient with online dating, patient with men, old and new.

  295.  #295April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Millie and sirens,

    Lets not put all our eggs into the online dating basket!! There are many men everywhere, and we must stay warm and open and smiling wherever we go, and circular date all day long.
    I reckon many of us will ‘bump into’ our man one day!

  296.  #296Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    April Rose #294
    I agree!!
    Sooo many opportunities for Ciding out in the world also!

  297.  #297Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Ohhh… so good to hear from you
    Darling Siren!!!
    Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words of wisdom!!!

    I find it quite interesting that
    this last time of Spirit withdrawing..
    I haven’t really blamed it on ME…
    Or gone over in my head
    “if I’d only said this… or if i’d NOT done that”
    because I have observed *HIS* pattern…
    noticed how he behaves…
    I know He is pretty much an On-again-off-again

    I was talking to my daughter today
    and she was reminding me that is EXACTLY
    how her father is (my ex)
    he does it to HER all the time.
    When HE doesn’t want to talk about something,
    or gets angry about something,
    He’ll simply withdraw from her and NOT talk for a couple of weeks…

    HOLY Sh**T, Sirens,
    I’ve been picking this sort of man for 40 years!!!
    I am so sad
    that this is as far as I have managed to get
    in my relationship world…

    Wellllll… things can ONLY get better… as I think I
    am SEEING MORE clearly!!!

  298.  #298Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Kim how are things with your darling Man…
    now that you are more moved in?

  299.  #299April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Dearest Azure Blu,

    Be not downhearted. You have identified a pattern. Well done you! Give yourself a big hug for that. You have made a great step and now you can choose something new.

  300.  #300Kim on May 11, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Azure, we all pick these men occasionally….the good thing is that we know now what we want and we know that chasing etc., will not change a guy….so it’s just another step forward!

    Everything is going well here, yhank you for asking. It has not been a smooth sailing but mostly I now realize that this was due to him being out of his comfort zone…the other day he was even wearing a T-Shirt with a print of a tent and underneath it said ‘man cave’……..LOL. I think he must be missing his mancave!! I was cracking up.
    We rub a bit, but we have a lot of fun also…our sex life suffered a bit but actually this is largely due to our different bed times…by the time I get into bed now, I am so exhausted, I pass out – it is still too late for me….and when I wake up, he js still snoozing, so i get bored and get up lol.
    Our different activity and sleep schedule is a major challenge, I have to admit. He has been resistant to change.
    I have been taking the brunt of the change on me….and I am doing all of the housework….so that he has his back free….because he still has organizing to do.
    Though I am thinking that I want to stop with that, as it does feel like overfunctioning.
    Yesterday, he was grumpy. I said I was going for a long beach walk, something he loves to do, he said many times…..but of course he said he needs to do more organizing…in the end, I went for a walk (stayed out a looong time to give him space to organize), shopping, made dinner and he did nothing, no organizing and nothing. I bit my lip because I really really wanted to say: whoa. I stayed out all this time so you have the place to yourself and do some of what you said you would, I cook dinner, did your washing and the shopping and you did precisely nothing.
    I bit my lip.
    I just said it would have been nice to walk together, if he wasn’t doing anything anyway….so he apologized profusely, said that he was being a grumpy idiot, regretted that he didn’t come with me in this lovely weather and said he was really sorry.
    Fair enough.
    So this is where we are. He is getting back to his former self and we had a lovely time kayaking on the weekend (and some arguments also), but slowly drifting back into feel good territory..
    Things are getting better but still adjustments….

  301.  #301Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    Thanks soooo much April Rose!!
    Self HUG!!! for me…

  302.  #302Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    Ohhhh… thanx for sharing your journey with the move in and how you are working thru some VERY stressful times…
    One of the 3 biggest stressors in life
    IS MOVING in Together…

    Ohhh… so cute: MoM with his Man Cave tshirt on!!!

  303.  #303Kim on May 11, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    On the plus side, which I enjoy a lot….we eat together, and it is so nice to have a man around…I do feel loved and cherished and it is so nice to not have to bear the brunt of everything anymore, for example repairs and bills….he was fixing my internet before work today….I also actually enjoy cooking for him, and I have more time at home than he does, so it’s not really overfunctioning in some ways but more ‘give and take’.
    He is a good man. He wants to make me happy.
    I do not look at the greener grass elsewhere because I know that I have got a pretty good one on my hand, even if I could strangle him sometimes…lol…but, me always going at 150mph, while he is going at approximately 1mph….we laugh about it a lot but it is a little source of frustration for both of us occasionally lol

  304.  #304April Rose on May 11, 2015 at 2:30 pm


    Careful you don’t set yourself up for resentment.
    Have you thought how you would like household chores and stuff to be shared? And begun negotiations?
    I don’t want you to set up a pattern early on in which it is taken for granted that you do all the cooking and shopping and laundry.
    Maybe ask if you can sit together and organise the domestic arrangements, or do it while walking on the beach. Ask him how he sees it working well for both of you…

  305.  #305Alice on May 11, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Hello Rori and Sirens,

    I have a dilemma myself. Is it possible to re-open a closed door in a feminine energy way?
    I was in love with this guy, but he didnt want to be with me, for complicated reasons, including that he had a girlfriend. So I told him how I felt and I cut off contact, and he promised he would never contact me again and has kept his word. This was a year ago. I was destroyed for a year, I lost myself completely in losing him. He felt like he was my soulmate. And in a way, at the time at least, he was. I havent dated much since, but have attracted really emotionally unavailable men, who I think have been mirroring my own emotional unavailability. I feel like I’m all boy, anxious and angry, on the outside, and all girl, feminine and sensual and emotional, on the inside. I wanna change that… using Rori’s tools. Just today I put on make-up, got a pedicure, started walking more femininely, more conscious of my curves, leaning, bust forward hehe 😉 Well anyway my question is, I want to reinitiate contact with this guy at some point, not immediately. I want to feel like I can be a woman and have him in my life. I used to hide my femininity from him because I was afraid of him rejecting me, and also becaue it felt too vulnerable. I dont want to be his best friend or his confidante anymore, but I do want to be able to be feminine with him, even if we just talk to each other or see each other once in a while. I guess I
    m trying to undo this idea in my head that I cant be feminine with him, that Im not feminine… Is this possible? is this a good idea? is instating no contact like i did a masculine or harsh stance to take… should i leave myself open to this man, while pursuing other opportunities? am i deluding myself? should i stick to no contact?
    thank you sirens! so greatful as always for your wisdom and compassion.

  306.  #306Millie on May 11, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    April Rose, yeah you are right 🙂

  307.  #307Kim on May 11, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    303 Well April Rose, unlike all the other men I ever lived with, he is very clean, considerate and pays all my bills and most if my groceries,…he also works long hours…so I don’t have resentment, because this is still the adjustment phase….and he does a lot for me too. I am pretty sure he will do his bit once he is settled in and not still organizing himself..if not, I will stop lol.
    I am not going to be an unpaid housemaid, done that before…never again!

  308.  #308Azure Blu on May 11, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    Ahhh… yes,
    Your reminding me how nice it is to have a loving man in your home everyday!!!
    someone to lean on now and then… and Know you’re Not doing this thing called life all on your own…
    the wonderful interconnectedness…
    How wonderful for you to have MoM
    You soooo deserve this
    lovely Siren!

  309.  #309Dixie on May 11, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    Just two responses and one question 🙂

    First, Azure, when I read about your conversation with your daughter, my heart just swelled up because it made me so, so happy that you are that close with her. And I know that feeling of “I’ve been waiting” but Azure, you are so soft and lovely and strong and graceful – that’s how I read you anyhow- that I know in my bones that your Forever Man is somewhere close by. I, too, was rooting for Spirit, but more importantly, I’m rooting for You!

    Also, Kim, your journey with MoM has been so inspirational, more than I can find words for. After my divorce, I took me so long to find myself again, and to begin looking after me – lots of hidden fears and insecurities. And now, I’ve been so steadily learning how to lean on me, rely on me, that the idea of sharing a space with a man, bring simultaneous feelings of warmth and fear. In the past, I’ve dated men who have wanted to move in soon, move quickly, etc that I wanted to fly away! I’ve felt knots in my stomach when they , took a step too close, as if it might throw me off balance, mostly I’ve come to value my freedom, where I once feared it. But your balance of independence and partnership is reminding me of how much I LOVED sharing a home with someone I love.

    With Steady CD this spring, another man last fall, and someone else last year, they all mentioned “future”, “marriage, and I bolted. But I’m feeling now that I could have simply expressed my boundaries a little better without feeling so knotted and anxious inside…

  310.  #310Labbit on May 11, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Kim it all sounds so great! I’m glad that the adjustment period is starting to smooth out. 🙂

    Azure Blu, darling Siren, although I am sad (and MAD) that Spirit has withdrawn again…I feel so amped up and inspired by how you see that this has nothing to do with you, and it is the way that he reacts in conflicts. Not very emotionally mature. It will be interesting to see what the coming days bring…whether he steps up or disappears. No matter what you are closer to your forever man, whether it is him or someone else. You are magnetic!!

    Millie & April Rose I agree that offline can be a nice balance for online dating, especially when the messages we receive take a turn for the weird or unappetizing. I have mentioned this before but one of my sisters purchased EMK’s Finding Love Online program and it is AMAZING for online dating. It goes through everything — developing the right mindset, picking a brilliant username, writing a profile that grabs male attention yet is also honest and not a game, how to write messages, and so on. I wish I’d known about it before I met Tender! She is having FABULOUS results from it…for her first two months back on OKCupid she was getting 100+ quickmatches EVERY DAY and about 20 messages. Now it’s slowed but not much, she still has 40+ quickmatches each day and 10-15 messages, plus she is regularly seeing 3 men plus 1 or 2 new guys each week AND a phone date or two. All from one dating site!!! The men she’s seeing regularly are highly attractive, datable, mature men and the new guys are a mix of that and less so, haha. Using the stuff she learned from EMK’s program. I’m amazed. I mean, she is gorgeous so OF COURSE I want her to have great results but my jaw has been on the floor many times as she tells me about her exploits. So I’d highly recommend the program and I’m sure she would too.

    Someone on here — Indigo, I believe? — said something to the effect of Rori’s stuff being SO GOOD for when you’re in a relationship, and EMK’s stuff being helpful for when you’re dating, before things develop into a relationship. I completely agree with this…I find Rori’s stuff so helpful both for discovering my feminine energy, and helping me right myself before I was dating again, and now in my relationship with Tender. My sis is finding EMK’s stuff to be gold and I too love reading an emotionally mature man’s take on a lot of dating and relationship stuff…I always get a chuckle at the stuff he writes because things that seem like such a BIG DEAL or a total mystery to me as a woman…once I read EMK’s thoughts on it and how he points out the male side so well without attacking women or making us less, I’m like, oh yeah, this makes total sense! It’s talked me down from many ledges, LOL.

    Just some food for thought. 🙂 I’m still very much a Rori devotee.

  311.  #311Dixie on May 11, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    This is the piece I would love feedback on, please.

    What happens/ what do you do when you feel this rush of love and tenderness for something a man has done, but when he’s not there. I don’t want to lean forward, but something happened yesterday….(it’s a small thing)

    I’ve been wrapped up in work lately – not in a bad way, but in a hit-by-a-tidal-wave-of-opportunity way that has felt exciting and overwhelming at the same time. The same weeks, D. also reached out less and we haven’t seen each other. Using a fairly gentle feeling message, I expressed that I was missing our closeness and our sharing. He called right away, and said that he was sorry and explained right away that his work hours had changed and that he was so sorry. He said, “I’m going to do better.” I didn’t ask him to “do” anything, but honestly, his insistence that he would try better made me feel…. well, I felt cared for and heard.

    He then mentioned that he had been wondering why I no longer reached out – text, phone- etc, and that he had told himself “it’s no big deal, she’s at work,” and the way he tried to brush it off was SO darn cute! I could hear in his voice that it really did bother him. I just told him that I loved hearing him, and I just didn’t want to feel like feeling like I’m interrupting. So all in all, everything felt good afterwards.

    Then I remembered yesterday all the really sweet things he does do, even when he’s been working crazy hours, and all the ways he does support me, and I’ve been feeling this wave of warmth and appreciation for him…

    In my heart, I want to reach out, now that I know that it means a lot to him too, but part of me just wants to stay here, and honestly, be the girl….

    If he’s not in front of me, then he’s not in my head, right? (welp, he’s definitely distracting my heart!)

  312.  #312Labbit on May 11, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    Tender and I have had a couple of blissful weeks since he’s been back from his business trip. We’ve made a commitment to each other to keep going on ‘dates’ even though we spend nearly every night together now. Last week we went on three dates. The weather here has turned lovely but we know Spring will quickly give way to the heat and oppressive humidity of summer, so we’re trying to be outdoors as much as possible before that becomes uncomfortable.

    On Cinco de Mayo we made plans to try out a new Mexican restaurant in Tender’s current neighborhood. Unfortunately the place was packed and they’d either accidentally given away our reservation or lost it. I was super bummed because I’d been looking forward to fajitas for about a week (as in I’d been talking about them non-stop much to Tender’s teasing). Instead we had margaritas at the bar instead and then ate at an Italian place next door.

    Then last Thursday we went for a BEAUTIFUL walk in one of our city’s parks, watched the sun set from a bench in the park and made out like teenagers. I used to not like PDAs but it is so funny to me how he brings out this ultra-passionate, exhilarating-energy self hidden inside of me. Then, being the smart guy that he is, he took me out for Mexican food for dinner. And it was delicious!!

    He worked on Saturday so I didn’t see much of him, but on Sunday we went on our third date. We checked out a beautiful building in our city that was having a special open house, which meant the public was allowed to see places within the building we couldn’t usually go. The building is at least 100 years old and has so many ornate details — super high ceilings with chandeliers lining each hallway; lots of side rooms that are each decorated in their own unique style; hidden staircases that lead to areas unexpected. We had so much pretending to be artifact hunters! Afterwards we got frappuccinos during Starbucks’ last day of their 1/2 off promo. (I regretted the sugar, but it admittedly was so yummy.) We also grabbed treats from a Parisian bakery in town — Dominique I was thinking of you!! — chilled in another city park, and just enjoyed the moment.

    It’s so funny because I’ve noticed that on evening dates Tender can’t keep his paws off of me, but during day dates like Sunday he tends to be very gentlemanly — holding my hand the entire date or offering his arm for me to hook mine through — but there isn’t much in the way of kissing. And I am ALL ABOUT the kissing. So on Sunday there was definitely some leaning forward on my part to get more kisses from him. I think it amused him…I can’t really tell to be honest. At one point he was going to give me a high-5 instead of a kiss and I was like NO WAY BUDDY. Kiss or cold shoulder, haha.

    Recently I’ve entered a phase in my own ongoing feminine-energy development where I’ve been more and more focused on enjoying the NOW and not thinking about the future. On not trying to possess Tender in any way…giving myself and him total freedom to come and go as we please. Catching myself when those old needy feelings come up and sitting with them, loving them and soothing them until they fade, but not trying to get rid of them either. The neediness continues to be less and less…there is much more fun and vibrancy in my femininity these days and Tender has noticed and showered with me compliments over it. And in turn, his masculinity grows ever stronger but in a tender way…he embraces my openness and vulnerability and responds with a nurturing, safety-inspiring care. It makes me swoon.

    Our apartment is still under construction, things are going pretty well there but slowly. Tender will be listing his current condo for sale next week, and we expect it will sell very quickly…and once it does sell he’ll probably stay with me until our apartment is ready. Although I dislike the idea of living together before we’re engaged, financially this makes a lot more sense. And Tender has promised that once our apartment is done he will move in there alone at first, until the time is right to get engaged. (I am not ready to get engaged and he agrees.)

    All in all…things are downright lovely right now.

  313.  #313Labbit on May 11, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    310 Dixie — I would say the best way to show him your appreciation would be to share your delight the next time he calls you, or on your next date compliment him, i.e. you take such good care of me, I feel so turned on by the sweet things you do.

    Honestly those waves of warmth and appreciation are more than enough when you’re not together in person — although he may not know exactly what he feels I am sure that he can feel them.

    It’s super tempting to lean forward and praise him now, but giving back is really all you need to do rather than giving first. He does well to make you feel good — you don’t have to reciprocate the doing. 🙂

  314.  #314Zia on May 11, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    Labbit #309 – I got that same package and found it incredibly helpful too. I was also a part of his focus group for about 6 months. Can definitely vouch for EMK being a great addition to Rori’s stuff! I would say that Rori and EMK are the two who helped me make the most change in my world, and my relationship and life right now is proof of that. Two years all up to go from heartbroken and making terrible relationship mistakes, to engaged and planning a wedding and a baby 🙂

  315.  #315Labbit on May 11, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    313 Zia — That’s so great! I was thinking about how your man has done a 180 about having a baby…a few of my married friends have had similar experiences. While dating their men were pretty much set against having children but as they fell in love with my friend the guy changed his mind. One couple I can think of where this was the case is now expecting twins, their second and third kiddos!

    I think that some, not all, but definitely some men don’t ever picture themselves as fathers, but a great relationship can change that. 🙂

    Much love to you!! What an exciting time.

  316.  #316Indigo on May 11, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    Labbit – yes, that was me, and it’s very much what I think! EMK shows you how to date with confidence, and he’s actually pretty excellent at that, and Rori shows you how to BE in a relationship.

    Dixie – I second what Labbit was saying. A couple of weeks ago, D put money into my account because my salary was late and I wasn’t with him when I found out, and I leaned forward to thank him and it was too much. Mostly because of how it left ME feeling. It would have been much better to hold my warm, loving, cosy feelings close to my chest and then just give him a kiss the next time I saw him.

  317.  #317Tereana on May 11, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    April Rose & Azure – I’m so glad you liked what I wrote.

    April, it feels wonderful that you were moved by that. I’m so sorry you have had negative experiences with men who haven’t behaved in this way. In truth, I haven’t experienced it much in my immediate family. But that’s a picture I’ve gathered by watching people behave in ways that resonated with me as mature and well-adjusted. I’m choosing to believe that this kind of man. Less like Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster, and more like getting to see a wild deer in the woods. They really are there. And we might get scared and run away, until we realize we are does and we can walk right up to them without being afraid.

  318.  #318Millie on May 11, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    Andrea, just thinking about you and wondering how you are? I miss your voice on the blog… Hope you are doing well!!

  319.  #319Victoria on May 11, 2015 at 10:44 pm

    I find it strange that thanking your man on the spot was too much. Can you explain why you did not feel well after that?

  320.  #320Victoria on May 11, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    Indigo, Azure,
    I had a very bad day yesterday. We had a fight with F., and then we made up and everything, but even though I was ok for a while, this morning I woke up at 5, feeling angry, and not able to sleep.
    To cut a long story short, I demanded an explanation of why he cancelled our date on Sunday. And, predictably, it was something which, to me was an absurd reason, and for him, a very good reason. I was trying not to blame him for anything, speak in feeling messages etc, but it did not go well. I told him that if I am to cancell, I would consider it good taste to immediately offer an alternative time to meet. And that it would never occur to me to cancel our plans for the reason he cancelled, it just beats me how he can do that, I totally do not understand. I also told him I suspect that he is withdrawing from me because his brother is going through separation and possibly divorce with his wife, and I can sense this is stirring things inside F.,
    So, as you can imagine, it did not go well. He felt critisized and threatened that I will leave him (I have done this a few times). He believs that I should just accept his lateness and occasional changes of plans as part of his personality, let is slide, even if I am disappointed, I should make sure I do not make him wrong for that.
    You know mentally I understand that he needs this in order to feel well.. And there are times when I can, I come prepared with plan B, and just value the precious moments we share more than the small annoyances on the way. This time however, it just did not sit well with me. I will be travelling for the rest of the week, and I was hoping that he will make sure we spend more time together before I go… No chance. I see I am having way to many expectations that he can not fulfil.
    And, as always, I am tempted to break it off. He senses the danger and this makes him close off; when he is scared he becomes cold and seeks to put the blame back on me.
    I was reading here someone said the other day that the next man will be so much better, and, I am kind of surprised by how pleasant this idea is, and how much it improves my mood.

  321.  #321Indigo on May 11, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    Here are my thoughts on emotionally mature men:

    I think men become emotionally mature in relationship. I think it’s like Dominique says – they heal and mature through the heart of the woman they love. It is through love of her that they are inspired to grow and change and learn the skills that they need to make a relationship work.

    To be perfectly honest, I think it is much less likely that a single man on his own will undertake the kind of journey we are talking about here, with all this inner development and selflessness. I think bachelors who don’t have to think about anyone else are much more likely to live a life where they please themselves and not think about these things.

    I think it’s wanting to be happy in relationship and make their woman happy that they seek a higher purpose and fulfillment in this way. Honestly I think women have a huge role to play here. And I think it’s why we get so frustrated. Because it is through a succession of women that men learn. Obviously it is their upbringing as well, but I really believe it comes down to this.

  322.  #322Indigo on May 11, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    Don’t get me wrong, I think the desire is there with most men, and I think their hearts are in the right place, I think it’s just figuring out what works and what doesn’t takes time.

  323.  #323Millie on May 11, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    I just had a really strange thought… That makes complete sense. That I only fall “in love” when I feel less than a man, when he is greater than me. Once I feel greater than the man, I do not feel “in love” anymore. I still love them in a way, but not in that addicting way. When things started going south with my man… I remember telling him I felt “in love” with him… Because suddenly I felt like I had to prove something to him and to me. I wonder that what I think being in love with someone feels like is really a different emotion entirely. And I wonder what falling in love feels like when I do feel greater than a man. When I felt confident around my man I felt affection and love for him but I did not feel like I was “in love” not until he started pulling away. Wow, what a huge unbeatably nugget to discover!! I was thinking about this because I used to think I was in love with Mechanic, now it seems silly to me… And he’s lucky to even entertain the idea of being in bed with me. I don’t feel in love with him in the least, and I wonder if it’s because I feel fine now, being my complete self around him, I have nothing to lose, and I don’t care anymore what he thinks. I feel greater in a way… Because I see him for who he is. I do respect him… And I’m so glad we have gotten close again talking about life and things… I feel like we are on the same playing field except that I don’t really care if he likes what I say, or responds to my text a whole day later… It feels really good! And I hope I can get in that mode again with my guy, like I was in the beginning and I wonder what falling in love really feels like…

  324.  #324Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 12:08 am

    Yes, I fully agree with what you say. I kind of also suspect that we women also learn through a succession of men, at least I do, and now I see the queue is stalling a little bit, i.e. my learning is a bit hampered, I need to look around for a new full time teached may be 🙂

  325.  #325Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 12:12 am

    Victoria 318,

    D can be a very caring, generous person, but is uncomfortable with the loving/grateful attention or focus on him that this brings afterwards. I have observed many a time how he accepts it but seems uncomfortable when I gush with thanks or love. I remember at his brother’s wedding, which I attended with him, part of his brother’s speech was how much he loved and valued D, and D commented to me how he absolutely wanted to hide and disappear.

    This is his personality, and I know not to gush (too much) but I had expectations, and when I thanked him and didn’t hear back from him I was a bit hurt.

  326.  #326Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 12:14 am

    I myself have given a lot of thought to what “being in love” is.
    I believe it is a certain chemical state in the brain, a cocaine-like addiction with cravings and withdrawal.
    Only once it gets cleared out of your system you see the man for who he really is (your experience with Mechanic).
    You just changed to a different dealer, but even he will be out of your system, in due time.

  327.  #327Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 12:20 am

    Indigo 324,
    I see, it makes sense, people are so different.
    One of my CDs, P. is like your D. He does not like thanks and compliments … Whereas F. thrives on thanks and compliments. When we speak on the phone I always tell him how handsome and attractive to me he is, and he says “It makes me feel so good when I hear that, that’s why I call you all the time”.

  328.  #328Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 1:01 am

    Victoria 319,

    I am sorry to hear about your fight with F, and I sympathise with you 100%. I get totally irrationally upset and frustrated if someone cancels on me, especially if the reason is not good, and tamping down the anger and disappointment is not easy. I admire your patience with F, I really do, and I hear you about knowing the kind of person he is.

    Maybe your responses are a message from your inner self about CDing other men, as you suggest, and reexamining this boundary?

  329.  #329Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 1:23 am

    Thank you so much.
    Absolutely, CDing is a great idea always, and, he keeps giving me this message that I need to do that more actively. Absolutely.
    You know, the reason I am not cutting him loose, is because I am pretty sure he is just like that with everyone, he actually is making a major effort for me.
    I am kind of torn between enforcing this as a boundary and accepting that he has a certain disability and I need to accept it, like if you choose to be with a man with one hand, you can’t keep blaming him that he can’t grow a new hand. Do I make any sense?

  330.  #330Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 1:47 am


    You make total sense to me, because D has a few of these quirks as well. Quirks which could either infuriate you, or you could learn to accept.

    You said “I am kind of torn between enforcing this as a boundary and accepting that he has a certain disability and I need to accept it, like if you choose to be with a man with one hand, you can’t keep blaming him that he can’t grow a new hand.” For me, it’s kind of both. For me the first thing I had to work out was whether the issue in question was a dealbreaker for me. If it was, I should be willing to cut him loose. But if it wasn’t (and since I wasn’t willing to cut him loose for these things I determined they were not dealbreakers) then I think a huge dose of acceptance is in order.

    However, when the behaviour crosses over into the inconsiderate on more than one occasion, I think it is wise to make a boundary. This is what I do. You do not have to leave the man on account of it, but you do need to have a contingency plan which you follow through on to show him that you value yourself enough not to get pushed around by this. I don’t think it’s exactly like growing a new hand because these personality quirks are something which they have some degree of control over. So you could decide what your contingency plan is – for you maybe it could be that if he has not shown up or confirmed plans by a particular time, you proceed with a fun plan B. To use one of my examples, D loves to do online gaming with his friends and I’m very supportive of that. He can game to his heart’s content, it doesn’t bother me. He always calls it a night at some point and comes and spends time with me. Where I draw the line is when it interferes with him coming to give me a hug and a kiss at the beginning of the night. I wait 15 minutes or so, and then if he’s a no show, I go home. And yes, I did have to have a conversation with him about how I was very supportive of him but rudeness and unreasonableness were not cool. And guess what? ever since I made this boundary this is not an issue with us any more. He is MUCH more considerate now.

  331.  #331Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 2:14 am

    Thank you so much. This is the best advice I have received in a very long time!
    You are a treasure!

  332.  #332Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 2:43 am


    You are so welcome 🙂

    I must say, it beats arguments and drama.

  333.  #333Azure Blu on May 12, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Indigo #329
    I love this boundary and how you softly keep it with D!!!

    Something to remember!

  334.  #334Azure Blu on May 12, 2015 at 11:27 am

    {{{{Victoria}}}} #139
    Ohhhh.. darling sweet Siren,
    I am so sorry to hear about your fight with F
    It sounds like you are both feeling worried
    Him about breaking up (because of his brothers marital issues)
    and you with wanting to get some close, together time before you go…

    Extra pressure on both of you…
    I agree with you and Indigo… it feels sooo awful to be canceled on…
    Spirit used to do this on a regular basis…
    (I think it had to do with his daughter manipulating his evenings)
    until one time I made it into a fun thing…
    I told him how brave he was several times during the evening- come to think of it – he hasn’t done this since.. weird

    Rori says it is VERY important to speak up about things that are important to us…
    It brings closeness to the relationship
    Did you ask F if he had a solution for cancelling
    so you don’t feel so blind sided…??

  335.  #335Azure Blu on May 12, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Dixie #308
    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    So interesting to read about your self loving journey after your divorce! You are such a Siren now…
    Rori says we do find a better balance and ways to express ourselves the more CDing we do…
    sounds like you are doing plenty of practicing!!

    Thank you soooo, so much for your vote of confidence in ME finding my Forever man… oxoxoxo

  336.  #336Tereana on May 12, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    Ok ladies. I don’t know if there is a new post up, so I’m writing here.

    I guess the of thing for me to do is to let go of my hold on the idea of a “result.” Same old thing, right? Expecting that V will call me x number of times, which will clearly demonstrate his devotion to me. If he calls less than that, it’s a lapse in his sacred duty as a partner. That’s the mindset I’m in. And maybe I’m not wrong. But the thing is, I can’t FORCE it to happen. I’ve been trying.

    The other day, he said he would try to call more. I was happy. But then he said something immediately after that that bugged me. And he hasn’t tried calling or asking when I could talk yet.

    Just today I mentioned the idea again of dating other people. I’m not sure if he ever saw my email. He seemed surprised. But I’m thinking more and more maybe I should just break up with him. Or should I get more into it? Ahhhhh. There are so many possibilities…hang on, let go. Those are the main ones…

  337.  #337Beloved on May 12, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Tereana – you don’t have to break up with him, and, you don’t need to be exclusive with him, either, if you don’t want. He can be in your rotation.

  338.  #338Millie on May 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    Tereana— I’m curious what his response was to your email with stating that you want to date other people was?

  339.  #339Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 8:56 pm


    I think that whatever you do, a good idea would be to get all your energy off him… for as long as you can manage. No more e-mails (until he initiates), no more wondering or deliberating… he’s not in front of you so forget about him for as long as you can.

    In my humble opinion you don’t need his permission to date others, unless you’ve specifically made an exclusivity pact, and even then… But either way get busy doing what feels good to you. I’ve learnt in my own life how bad it is when I’m longing and pining in this way for a man to contact me, with my energy all over him which he can feel….

  340.  #340Dixie on May 12, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Argh, just a quick vent. I had a day that felt awful, came home full of anxiety and tension, and reached out to D. and… was the most leaning forward I’ve done and it felt ….unsatisfying and less than comforting.

    I was in tears. He did call right away but I felt like a buddy, with only a moments flash of tenderness when I just wanted to be wrapped up in his arms, with his soothing voice and tenderness.

    Nope. Not tonight. But….I’m learning, and at least I was able to soothe myself a bit tonight. I get myself worked into a hurricane and that’s when I miss his steadiness the most.

  341.  #341Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    Azure, Indigo
    thank you so much for your thoughts.
    Well, he does not cancell very often, I would say once every 10 months or so, or even less, the thing is that I never cancell, actually I have cancelled once and it was a situation really out of my control, whereas, his reasons are just ridiculous.
    I do understand though, that they are not ridiculous to him, and I need to practice respect, alongside with speaking my feelings.
    I find it very hard not to say “your reason is clearly absurd” and “how can you do this to me”.
    I told him that what I would do if I cancell, is provide a good explanation and alternative time to meet, and in my mind he fails to provide both. Of course, I did not ask him if he has a solution.
    I know what he will say though, I have heard it before. He says that he is amazed that I fail to see how much he loves me (???) and that he is equally miserable for not being able to spend time with me (???) and how can I not understand that sometimes circumstances (???) demand that he cancells and he is so afraid that I will break up with him over something stupid like this, like I have done in the past. Boy, am I not tempted to!
    May be the lesson I get repeatedly, and still can not learn is that he does not like being told he is wrong. He apologized and everything, but it was an apology through clenched teeth, he truly believes that he shall be the master of my universe, and I shall never say anything diminishing his status.
    Oh well.

    How have you been?

  342.  #342Victoria on May 12, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    Actually, I have probably cancelled three times.
    One time I was caught up in an extremely important project at work and my boss physically held me up, the other time my grandfather died and I had to go to my hometown, the third time I missed a flight when I was abroad.
    As I am writing this I realize to him probably seems that I have cancelled as often as he has, or even more. Urrrrrg.

  343.  #343Indigo on May 13, 2015 at 12:43 am

    Yeah Victoria,

    I find it very important not to get into a discussion about it, and especially not to criticise why they do things the way they do. That’s why I find actions so much more satisfying – it communicates your position effectively without you ever having to attack the other person. In fact it allows you to be quite soft and loving about it – you are just using your personal power to take care of yourself.

  344.  #344Victoria on May 13, 2015 at 1:05 am

    You are right of course. See, I did have a plan B, and actually I had a very good time working on my thing instead of having a date with him. I was planning not to ask him for explanation or anything, but then was tempted to call him in the evening (like he suggested to) and I could hear in his voice that he was feeling guilty (or I imagined it) and then, as we started talking, things just went downhill, I felt my adrenaline (or whatever stress hormone there is)
    rising, and, even though I should have been soft on the outside, what I said came out as harsh. I am trying not to beat myself and also not to find fault, and I have had dates with two other guys in the last few dates, but nobody is intriguing to the point to take my mind off F. You know what I mean by that :-).
    How have you been?

  345.  #345Indigo on May 13, 2015 at 1:28 am

    I’ve been very well indeed, thank you Victoria 🙂

    Little minor bumps in various areas of my life (including another trip to the dentist today) but nothing I can really complain about.

    Work is good, things with D are good… now I’m just looking for the next adventure 🙂

  346.  #346CurvySiren10 on May 13, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Victoria, this line is the the key to relationship harmony in my humble opinion….”I do understand though, that they are not ridiculous to him”.

    Empathy. Understanding. Respect for your partner’s point of view. “Getting” his world. Reverence for the fact that you have totally different values/experience and accepting that…or not. One person’s ridiculous is another person’s reality.

  347.  #347Victoria on May 13, 2015 at 4:49 am

    Yes, you are right, and you know, I understand it, and can tell it to someone else if they’d ask me, it is just when it comes to my gut reactions, empathy and understanding do not come easy or naturally to me.
    I thought I am getting better, but I still will need years of practice to claim I am good at this relationship skill.
    I love what you said, one person’s ridiculous is another person’s reality.
    How are you doing?

  348.  #348CurvySiren10 on May 13, 2015 at 5:18 am

    I am doing well! Thank you for asking! I also do not find empathy and understanding “easy” or natural either. But I am working on it in a conscious way because I am convinced that this is the cornerstone of healthy relationships.

  349.  #349Dominique on May 13, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Everyone – Here’s the article on intimacy I promised –



  350.  #350Kim on May 13, 2015 at 7:46 am

    You know, Victoria, your guy sounds very similar to mine…he gets easily overwhelmed by things which for me are not even a problem….like a pile of papers or something, and then he ends up stressing about something all day and if not cancelling plans, at least kinda making it clear he needs time to stress (not tackle lol) things.
    It does drive me nutso on occasion….but I have learnt to let him be, and just do my own thing…and that works well. Trying to help, trying to get hin to de-stress…does NOT work. Lol.
    As to the cancelling, I have also been cancelled on (twice or three times in two years) for what I consider ridiculous reasons, and most other adults with jobs/families and modern day pressures would consider ridiculous reasons. I also got blamey and judgmental, and sometimes we just can’t help it and I see that as human nature. Big deal.
    In the end, when the waters have calmed and one can express the disappointment or whatever, yes, then there can be honest communication.
    I have found that my guy actually understands and often AGREES that, yes, the reason was actually ridiculous after all, and although at the time it did not seem so to him, he sometimes has to shake himself. Now, that in turn inspires me to say ‘ah, no big deal, I understand that you want to be on top of so and so and let’s just forget it’.
    I think there has to be a coming together and understanding the other person. Also from F’s side as to WHY you are upset.
    I find that if they don’t even try to put themselves in our shoes sometimes, it is worse for me than the cancellation. Because I constantly try to put myself in his shoes even if it is HARD.
    Like we said, for guys like ours to never have been married and to be single whatever, means that there are certain hings maybe that are not wonderful….but it still has to be a give and take from both sides. I did read somewhere that being eternally late and cancelling commitments is part of a commitmentphobic person and in my case I can definitely see that in my guy, but at least he is pushing himself to change and for me the ‘trying’ is mostly enough.
    Nobody is perfect, I am not either….

  351.  #351Kim on May 13, 2015 at 7:47 am

    What I meant to say with all the bla lol : Empathy is great, but one-sided empathy just from the woman can be another road to doormat-dom. A man has to come to the party also. In my view.

  352.  #352Kim on May 13, 2015 at 7:53 am

    Victoria, does he know you go on dates with other guys?
    I must say that once my guy sniffed out that if he wasn’t making plans, I might well just go on a jolly with other people, friends or men, he kinda stepped up a lot more because it really p*ssed him off sitting at home fretting over a ridicukous reason while I was having a whale of a time with others…and I never rubbed it in his face, but you know, people post stuff on fb etc. Of course now we live together and are exclusive none of that is happening quite so much but I do remember it gave the whole plans/dates making thing a boost. Lol

  353.  #353Victoria on May 13, 2015 at 8:08 am

    He knows that I see other men, I work with men mostly and I have a lot of official functions, lunches and dinners etc. I do not rub it in his face though, and do not divulge too much information. He is very insecure about the fact that I interact with very rich men and keeps saying that some rich guy will snatch me. I have told him that my romantic interests do not require a man to be rich, quite on the contrary, if I had the personality to team up with a rich guy, I would have already done that.
    I am also sure he is very attractive to many women: he works at a large hospital and I am sure the nurses and the female patients are drooling… but I think he is not seeing anyone else but me.
    He simply does not have the energy, being so slow and flegmatic, it is either that, or he is an Oscar deserving actor :-).

  354.  #354Kim on May 13, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Yes Victoria…lol…that’s one of the advantages of being with a man with less energy. I am already too much for my guy too, I doubt he could deal with anyone else….hahaha.

  355.  #355Indigo on May 13, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Kim 350,

    I agree with this 100%. I have lived this and doormat-dom is no fun.

    On the other hand I’m an easygoing , calm, soft person and I don’t feel comfortable changing this. Understanding and accepting are good – in the end all I found that was needed in addition to this were clear boundaries and not backing down from my feelings. No blaming or criticising – just not flaking out on my own position/feelings. Solves most things.

  356.  #356Catherine on May 13, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Love this post and replies, totally amazed by Rori and her beautiful energy

  357.  #357Tereana on May 13, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Beloved, Millie and indigo – thanks for your responses.

    I agree. I don’t feel like I’m breaking up with him exactly. That’s how he might interpret it. I’m not sure.

    But basically, he never responded to my {beautifully composed} email. I suspect that he never even saw it. So I ended up saying basically the same sentiment in a series of texts/IMs. He never responded to that. Which I guess means he’s thinking about it.

    I feel fine. It’s not like we had a commitment. And, I added one other element. Because I realized this was true for me: it’s important to me that he makes a commitment (that is, for me to be exclusive). So I told him he doesn’t have to commit. But while he’s thinking about it, I’ll be open to dates with other men.

    My heart and my soul tell me we need this. I’m not giving up on the connection. But we need this space – I need it. Because I also need him to be the best kind of man for me, and he is not being that right now.

    So I will date men or I will take care of me. But I am not going to hope or expect for anything from him. He hasn’t been giving to me anyway

  358.  #358Azure Blu on May 13, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Dominique #348
    Great post!!!
    very timely for me…
    Thank you!

  359.  #359Dominique on May 13, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Azure Blu – I feel SO happy this article resonates with you. Thank you, and you are so welcome.


  360.  #360Labbit on May 13, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    You know, I still struggle with whole “doormat” issue. I know that I have for certain been a doormat in the past in my relationships…but then I also feel as if at times I’ve swung too far in the other direction. Gone cold, too aloof, so to speak.

    As I try to figure out this middle ground…it feels hard!! Because of my past I’m often hesitant to respond to my guy’s requests, it’s like there’s now a built-in hesitation of, “If I say yes to this does that make me a doormat?”

    For instance, one scenario is if I’ve made plans for myself and Tender asks me to change them so we can do something together. It depends on what my plans were…if it something very important to me I’ll say no, I want to keep my plans. And he’s fine with this. If it’s not important to me or something I was going to do just to say busy, I’ll usually say yes and change them. And this makes him very happy. Does it make a doormat that I’ll change my plans?

    This is one of those big grey areas for me, where I’m not sure where the line is between being feminine-energy and responsive to his requests, versus being a doormat. What do you think, Sirens?

  361.  #361Dominique on May 13, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Labbit – It all depends how you feel when you change plans. If you feel good about it, happy, excited even, then all is well.

    If on the other hand you feel annoyed, resentful, or anything else which doesn’t feel good, then all is not so well.

    A good man wouldn’t consider taking advantage or you for granted. Which is why he asks. You always have the option to say no OR if it’s something important to you AND you want him to join you, you can tell him – eg. Ooooh I had my heart set on…………..and it would feel so good having you come too. –


  362.  #362Beloved on May 13, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Victoria – it sounds to me that since you didn’t say you felt “mad” although you really did, by asking him why he was cancelling, you were fishing for a reason to justify your feelings.
    We don’t have to have a reason or make up a story to justify how we feel, and saying simply, “I feel angry and disappointed” isn’t drama. Do you use the type of feeling messages Rori teaches? “I feel/I don’t want/I want, what do you think?”

    Since he seems to have a chronic issue it will likely come up again. I wonder if you might have a different outcome if you don’t try to seem “reasonable” and instead say, “I feel angry and disappointed. I don’t feel important or cared for right now and I don’t want to feel this way. I want to feel important and cherished! I want to feel like I can depend on the plans we make. I don’t know what to do here, what do you think?”
    (or whatever feelings are true for you at the time).

  363.  #363victoria on May 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    We have had this conversation… It doesn’t go too well. He gets defensive and starts saying ” soooo you don’t feel loved…I am such an idiot that I can’t make you feel cherished. Do you really think I don’t cherished you. He turns it around and plays victim.
    The more we talk the worse it gets. It is better to speak less but I find it difficult to contain myself. urgggg

  364.  #364victoria on May 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    He apologizes and expects me to accept the apology and move on. And, to me this is somehow not enough.I don’t know why. My anger and stress would simply not go away until I make him as angry and upset as I was. Eye for an eye. There must be a better way but I am still not there.

  365.  #365Labbit on May 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    359 — Thank you Dominique. 🙂 I appreciate your feedback very much. In one of my circles of friends, though I do love them with all my heart, there’s definitely an attitude of bitchiness towards men and ‘not giving an inch’ to them. And I know that for me…that’s not how I am in relationship, nor how I want to be. I like being the emotional leader, the one grounding us in the now, the responsive one to his requests. He does not take advantage…if anything he opens himself up more, and gives more to me, simply by me surrendering and being vulnerable with him. It’s all really quite lovely.

    So it gets confusing when I’m talking with a certain circle of friends I have, who mean well but think that relationship means lording their feminine wiles as power over their men. Needless to say, most of their relationships are rife with conflict. Though a few in that circle do have wonderful relationships that I like to emulate…

  366.  #366Lovergirl on May 13, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Well, it looks like I am not pregnant. I started what appears to be my period. Maybe the shadows of lines on my tests were leftover pregnancy hormone from the miscarriage or something.

    I saw S last night and Saturday and we had sex both times. We got into a bit of an argument last night though and then I told him about being late an of course he flipped for a bit.

    Things are calmer now but we are kind of having it out about some things. Guess I will see what comes of that.

  367.  #367Dominique on May 13, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Labbit – Maybe don’t talk about Tender or your relationship then with them? You need to take care of you here. You know better than anyone what feels good and right for you.

    Love to you.


  368.  #368Zia on May 13, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    lovergirl – if you’re not wanting to use condoms, then maybe have a look into FAM? it’s fertility awareness method… rather than just guessing when you’re ovulating you track your cycle so that you know exactly when you should be using other methods of contraception (or abstain). I have been using this method for 2 and a half years so far and it’s working really well, and its great being more in touch with my body and my cycle. then at least you won’t be guessing or wondering if you’re pregnant every month?

  369.  #369Millie on May 13, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    Overall I’ve been doing better, yesterday I was the most at peace I’ve been in like six weeks. I came home and took a shower with this new lavender scrub I bought, slathered myself in lotion and picked up my house. The feeling returned of enjoying my place and enjoying being alone in it.

    Today though, I feel sad again. I miss him. I thought he would have said something by now…. Going on five weeks. I can’t beleive his feelings changed so fast. Anyway… It sucks. As much as I’m trying to talk to other men, I don’t really want to go out with any of them. Sadly I still feel hung up on him… Hung up on how I felt with him. Ughhhhhh

  370.  #370Tereana on May 13, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    Well, ladies. An interesting and fun thing is happening. Just as I’ve said to V that I am interested in dating other people again, all of a sudden I am hearing from people out of the blue. I got asked out by a guy I met a while ago and haven’t heard much from, except on a friendly basis. I’ve been having lots of text/IM convos with my ex from last year. And I just got a call from a guy I used to sleep with in SF. I mean, he would take me on proper dates – good dates. Some of the best. And he would always do everything. But he just wasn’t interested in a relationship or commitment. It was funny because I had just been thinking about him recently. And then there he was!

    It’s like I put a beacon out to the universe and the men are clamoring for me.

    And oddly, I got from my ex what is been hoping secretly to hear from V. He admitted that when he was running late because he was overcommitted he was just making reasons (ie excuses). That’s what I want to hear from V – something like that. Because that’s what he has been doing. If he hurts me, he’ll apologize, then tell me all the reasons it was unavoidable, none of which were his fault. Essentially shifting the blame and taking no responsibility for his own actions. I guess I got tired of it. The Universe is funny sometimes

  371.  #371Millie on May 13, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    Tereana–that’s so cool!! 🙂

  372.  #372Zia on May 13, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    My first pregnancy was an accident, and I remember hoping that the pregnancy test would be negative. It’s so weird to be the other way around right now – where I am hoping it will be positive!

  373.  #373Indigo on May 13, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    Victoria 361,

    D is the same way. I have to be sparing with feeling messages otherwise he gets very worked up and insecure and defensive. They are still the way I communicate, but I have learned to say less rather than more. In fact, conversations of these sort I have learned to keep to an absolute minimum. Oh well, I understand that, I don’t enjoy them either 🙂

  374.  #374Indigo on May 13, 2015 at 11:16 pm


    I second what Dominique is saying, on both counts.

    I don’t think it’s being a doormat, at all, if what he is offering is what you want to do, and you are changing plans that are either not important or not set in stone. For me, I like to have a couple of things I think about. Firstly, I won’t cancel on someone else to be with D. But aside from that I just consult my own heart and decide if what D suggests is what I really want – and the vast majority of the time, it is.

    Also about sharing about your relationship with your girlfriends. I’ve noticed a lot of the RR coaches have cautioned against this. Because in general, women have been so conditioned to come from a masculine place, and doing things that don’t work. Many of our girlfriends, let’s face it, have not done the deep inner work and self-reflection and come to the same awarenesses that we on this blog tend to have done. Therefore, I have learned to be quite guarded when speaking about my relationship with others, because you can come away feeling confused, and with some bad feeling things being said.

  375.  #375Labbit on May 14, 2015 at 3:19 am

    372 Indigo — Thanks for this! I do feel a lot better now about that particular scenario. 🙂

    I should clarify — I don’t talk about my relationship with these particular ladies. I learned long ago not to go down that rabbit hole with them, that their version of advice would doom any relationship, healthy or not, LOL. It’s more that when they bring up their relationships and discuss them, sometimes something they’ll say…I can’t help but apply their thought line to my own relationship and then it confuses me some. Relationships don’t dominate the conversation with this group, thank goodness, but they do come up from time to time.

    It’s not a group that I want to stop hanging out with, because it’s one of my dance troupes, and it would be very poor form if I didn’t hang out with them at all. I have decreased the amount of time I spend with them, luckily I can use my busy schedule as an effective excuse…but they are quite fun in many ways! So I do enjoy their company a lot…when relationships are not the topic.

    Luckily, in addition to all you lovely Sirens, I have another group of friends who are in wonderful, healthy relationships and they are much more likely to be where I discuss things with Tender. 🙂 If at all.

  376.  #376HeartBeat on May 14, 2015 at 3:58 am

    I feel cramped up and I can feel panic lifting and falling in waves.
    Dulling out then sharp strikes.
    My chest feels wobbly on the inside.
    Not leaning forward has suddenly hit home..
    Every romantic relationship I’ve ever had, has involved my leaning forward.
    Stabilizing, picking up slack, keeping things positive.
    Giving energy, making conversation. Feeding energy into the space between.
    Keeping the peace, striving for approval, squashing my own feelings so far down I don’t know what they look lik anymore.
    Thinking about it, brainstorming, prompting prompting prompting myself so that somehow I’ve moved around the issue.
    Hyping myself up to act cheerfully when my heart feels tired or numb.
    Making it light, making it fun.

    I’m sitting here, I feel numbed. I feel worried. I feel naked.
    It’s hit me, that I won’t be leaning forward.
    Oh my god..
    Sitting here I’m struggling to find an understanding as to why any man would want to come near me now..
    No prompting, no working on it.
    Just take it as it if. Feel. Communicate. Respond.
    Oh my god..
    A guy liking me. Just me.
    Wow, I feel so exposed.
    What if he doesn’t like me? What if he doesn’t come forward? What if I break? I feel frightened.
    I want to feel a man quietly hold me. I feel shocked. I’ve never wanted that.
    I suddenly feel dropped, like I can’t find that emotion or feeling. I feel numbed again.
    I feel frustrated.
    Still.. I feel like I’m actually near to me, to myself. And I do like that.

    Yesterday a guy, a stranger, smiled at me, my whole body filled with a hot glow and I blushed furiously and couldn’t look at him instead grinning directly at the floor. As much as I liked how this felt at the time, later on I felt mortified with myself.
    I have NEVER had a strange man intiate contact with me before..
    Walking through the mall later that afternoon, I saw him again, walking past I struggled to hold eye contact, I kept looking, looking away. He was holding a steady gaze with an expression of interest. “Hey” he smiled and said.
    “Hey” I replied, suddenly hit with a feeling of delighted surprise that the sound of my own voice sounded soft and sweet like honey.

    I can feel a knot in my belly.
    Oh boy..
    Sirens can have rocky feelings too right?

  377.  #377Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 9:37 am

    Zia (366)-

    I used NFP during my marriage so I do have some awareness of my cycle. I also have a fertility monitor microscope that a midwife gave me before my oldest was born that you put saliva on and can see if it’s ferning/you are fertile. I haven’t been using it lately, and things were off after the miscarriage anyway, but thanks for the reminder.

    Congrats on trying for a new baby!! I feel excited for you!! 🙂

  378.  #378Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 9:54 am

    I think what bothers me the most about things with S is that he very much wants a commitment and life with someone, just not with ME. I know the technicalities of WHY (5 kids, financial concerns) but everyone else says things like, that if he loved me enough, it wouldn’t matter. I feel like I am failing at doing whatever thing it would take to make him love me enough. I feel at a complete loss to get ANYONE to feel that way about me. I feel completely unlovable and clueless as to how to change it, like everyone else knows some secret that I will never be able to figure out.

    I have broke down during an argument with S on more than one occasion and said I didn’t feel lovable. He responded with “you are VERY lovable”. But obviously, not ENOUGH. I feel like I am not enough for anyone, like no man would love me ENOUGH to be able to get to the point where he would want a life with me. Sure, once the kids are grown, maybe, but no one REALLY wants to take this on and the guys who act like they do are fakes.

  379.  #379Indigo on May 14, 2015 at 10:21 am


    There’s this wonderful saying about accepting the things you can’t change, changing the things you can, and knowing the difference between the two. This has nothing to do with you not being loveable. You ARE loveable, you are loveable because you’re a human, you are loveable because you’re a woman, and if S says you are loveable, well then that’s one more reason to believe.

    As my mom used to say to me (and I repeat it to myself to remind myself that I am loveable), “The reason is hardly ever that you weren’t loved enough.” If it were me, and I were going down into this spiral, I would start working to separate out what are the things I cannot change and cannot control, from those that I can, and just start the journey of accepting and loving what is (including myself). There IS someone who is right for you.

  380.  #380IamHis on May 14, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    I always feel a little shy & vulnerable writing on here, but you know what? That’s a good thing. To practice opening up to people in a variety of ways & to acknowledge the very real feelings that accompany that…it actually feels kind of sacred, beautiful, and soft.

    I feel good about my life. It’s still not completely settled. I still wrestle with many doubts & insecurities & questions.

    The difference is that now I love & accept all of it, all of me. It’s OK to not know.

    & I had a beautiful realization about an old pattern.

    I always get to this point where I feel unsure of the man, of his intentions, & of my owe feelings in any given situation. This usually causes me to feel scared, panicky, and shifts my vibe. I stop communicating & run away emotionally and often times quite literally.

    I’ve chosen to relax, breathe, sink into my feelings…& most importantly, & I think this is key…believe in a positive future for my relationships with men. That means I’m not thinking ahead, assuming he’s a typical guy who is going to leave me or not step up the way I want him to, & just enjoy each man for who he really is and what he has to offer…no matter how little or overwhelmingly much that may be. & every relationship with a guy can end in a friendship of mutual respect & understanding & helping me on my horse to the next messenger that gets sent into my life.

    This feels so warm and lovely…

  381.  #381IamHis on May 14, 2015 at 12:48 pm


  382.  #382Azure Blu on May 14, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    I am sooo sorry you are feeling soo unworthy and unlovable…

    I think Indigo gave such great thoughts on how to move out of feeling out of control…
    It fits what I am going through also…
    So lovely!!’
    “I would start working to separate out what are the things I cannot change and cannot control, from those that I can, and just start the journey of accepting and loving what is (including myself). “

  383.  #383Labbit on May 14, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    378 IamHis — YAY!! This all sounds so wonderful to me. I too get all kinds of scary feelings when I really surrender to what I’m feeling (whether those feelings are ‘good’ or ‘bad’) and allow them to kind of swirl around inside of me. With time it’s helped me learn that no feeling lasts forever…that any feeling I try to hold onto flees more quickly…that any feeling I resist hangs around far longer than I’d like.

    If it’s any comfort, I often remind myself that the last guy has nothing to do with this guy…my past relationships have NO BEARING on how this current one unfolds. You always have the choice to slow down, breathe, see what’s actually happening in the moment, and go from there. Act from trust that every man wants to make you feel good and no man wants to hurt you.

    I also remind myself that I am not the person now that I was in any of my previous relationships. The way I was has no bearing on how I am now. I’ve learned, I’ve grown, I’ve expanded.

    You have learned. You have grown. You have expanded. Who you are in this moment is an ever unfolding thing of beauty. And that’s really attractive!

  384.  #384Sophie on May 14, 2015 at 1:45 pm


    Did you realise that you felt like that before or is that a breakthrough?! If so, it’s HUGE. I have lots of unlovable core beliefs too and they manifest themselves in the men I choose – for example, the only one I let close to me during the whole six months I was away was a man who was in love with someone else – immediately triggering a me old pattern of using the outside world to affirm that everyone else is loved and I am not and everyone else is a priority/more important than me and that I am always second best.

    NO! I want to be really, truly, 100percent number one (we’ll just set a man with kids aside for a moment) as a woman in a man’s life I want to be number one and I want to FEEL it and KNOW it.

    And the only way I know, of even half having a chance of getting there, is giving myself those feelings, making myself as much as poss, and when it’s appropriate (mostly) number one, and learning to love on myself so much and so hard and so daily and loving on my feelings of unlovability and reminding myself of why they are not true by loving myself loving myself loving myself. I’m sure as I get this down more and more and more, as its been mentioned on here before, the more the men around you change, and the more aversion I feel to non-loving behaviours in others xxx

  385.  #385April Rose on May 14, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Let’s be clear about what’s going on when it is the mind and its demon judgements.
    ‘Unlovable’ comes under that category.
    It is not a feeling.

  386.  #386Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Indigo 378-

    Thanks. I feel like there are so many things beyond my control. Its overwhelming. I feel helpless to get love from anyone, like its impossible, and I don’t even really know how to give it to myself. I don’t really believe that there is any man out there that would want me, not in my circumstances, and if S doesn’t, who would I want anyway? I don’t even like most men I meet very much at all. I saw the Chicago guy last night and he just bothers me in so many ways, even though he does things that are nice.

  387.  #387Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    Thanks Iamhis and Azure. I’m going to try and follow Indigo’s advice. Just feels like I can’t change much of anything right now. I don’t know where to start.

  388.  #388Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    Sophie 383-

    Thanks. I guess it is kind of a breakthrough, though I know I feel unlovable and have felt that before. Maybe its the nasty voices, I don’t know.

    I’m not sure I really even understand what it feels like to be loved by someone. I can’t really say I’ve ever had anyone in my life I truly felt loved by. Maybe my grandma. My kids don’t count because they love out of necessity. My ex husband, never really did love me, I don’t think. Its always just felt like I had to tough it out alone. I worry that that might be my lot in life forever.

    S has made me feel loved, more than any man I have ever met. But then I also feel like I’m not loved ENOUGH. Its not enough to make him want a commitment with me. It will absolutely kill me if he turns around and finds another woman that he wants to be with forever. It would just make me feel like complete sh!t.

  389.  #389Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    384 April Rose-

    You’re right. I guess the feelings are worthless, unloved, hopeless, and terrified of being abandoned. I feel like a failure, but again that is a judgment.

    I love S so much, but I feel helpless to inspire the devotion I want in return. Maybe I need to walk away. I really don’t know right now. He’s like the best friend I have and that makes it super hard.

    It seems like every other guy I meet, is worse. They aren’t better. They are not what I want at all and I just love being around him. I feel so confused.

  390.  #390Millie on May 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    Lovergirl– I actually can relate to how you are feeling right now…. Hugs to you.

  391.  #391Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    Yesterday evening, S and I were still kind of having it out, but he was apologizing from the night before. He had flipped, as expected over the pregnancy scare.

    He said some things that had made me feel bad. It just really bothers me that when it comes down to the wire he gets like that, and adamant about not wanting to be with me. I *think* and he describes it as, him just panicking in the moment, but its still painful.

    He commented that I do something similar and its true that I have said things to him that were meant to hurt, like the other night. Sometimes I think he and I are very similar people on the inside. Maybe that is why we connect in the ways that we do.

    Anyhow, we were done with our phone and text conversation at about 6:30 pm. He had just apologized about saying at one point that because we were not in a “relationship” we weren’t “close”. He said that wasn’t true and that of course we have a close connection.

    I didn’t answer because the conversation seemed over and I was headed out to dinner with Chicago. Two hours later, S texts me “hey, I need peace and quiet for the rest of the night so I’d appreciate no more texts. Thanks!”

    I was like wtf, why is he saying that now, when I haven’t texted him in hours and had no intention of it. I was eating with Chicago. I quickly texted back “I haven’t been texting” and he said he knew that but that he knows my “pattern” of wanting to text after my kids go to sleep.

    What?? That didn’t even make sense. We have only had ONE conversation in maybe the past month where I even texted him at night like that and it was the time he went to a swinger party. I rarely text him first anyway and if I do its usually right after we got off the phone and I have something more to say or I just left his house. I was taken aback by his comment but didn’t text back. I haven’t heard back from him sense.

    A guy I talked to later said he may have just been trying to get me to think he was with another woman. Of course, that crossed my mind, and its always possible, but I don’t think he actually was. When I got home I could see he was signed into the swinger site and had been messing around making changes to his profile.

    I was kind of baffled. I don’t really know what is up with the two of us right now. When I thought I could be pregnant he was saying if I’m not he wanted no more communication with me, but he seemed to be trying to apologize for that the next day. I think he still does.

  392.  #392Lovergirl on May 14, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    *since, not sense… I hate grammatical errors,sorry. Also, thank you Millie.

  393.  #393Tereana on May 14, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Well, I was just reading through the posts and found some responses and suggestions to my earlier situation with V that were very helpful. They could have been even more helpful if I had seen them before! Lol. I especially liked the part about saying part of what I had to say, then asking for his thoughts before “dropping the bomb” that I want to see other people. It is kind of like that. And I honestly think (know) that that’s the reason he isn’t contacting me right now. But I feel fine about it. I feel strong about my decision(s). Because I can’t be the one to shoulder the weight of the relationship or to take all the responsibility for his choices. I gave him many – many – opportunities to connect with me. I expressed myself many times. To the point where I just felt like a broken record. I could have started dating people without saying anything. But I think he needs and deserves to get the full picture of what’s happening. I let him know, finally, that I care about him, and that this isn’t breaking up with him. But that I need to do this. Who knows if he will understand? That is not up to me.

    And I did sit on the idea of saying all these things for many days before I actually did. The only reason I finally went with it is that it just kept coming up for me. And I feel so much better and more relieved now that I’ve communicated what I’ve said. I feel authentic, and I also feel a lot more self respect. I figure that soon, eventually, he will contact me again.

    And Victoria, I somewhat disagree. Yes, a man will move mountains when his woman is in trouble. But in this case, with Mat Boggs’ quote, and with what I personally believe and have also seen in real circumstances, is that it doesn’t require that there be a dire emergency for a man to cross oceans, etc. The “dire emergency” is that he loves her and he wants to do everything humanly possible to show this to her without a doubt. The emergency is inside him – he NEEDS to express this to her because he loves her. And all she has to do is just be there. He will move mountains and cross oceans for the sole purpose of being there with her. If he is going over there just because of an emergency, then that’s not really the kind of strong romantic love that we are talking about – at least not that I am talking about. And maybe it’s a fairy tale, but it’s one that I choose to believe him.

    In my case, V wouldn’t even be crossing the ocean (at least not now). The only mountain I was interested in him moving that would have given me reassurance was if he woke himself up early so that he could talk to me on a regular basis, even just a couple of days a week. He did that once, and he made a big deal of it, but it was because of an emergency, which I told him about. I let him know that what was happening, and THEN he moved mountains. What I’m interested in is the guy who moves mountains just because he wants to. Not because I’m asking for something special. I want mountain-moving to be a regular occurrence.

    Then there would be no doubt in my mind.

  394.  #394Millie on May 14, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Tereana– I totally hear you and agree about the moving mountains! I also feel that that happens when we are not expecting it. Our vibe has to be so strong, and we have to be so strong within ourselves that we don’t need or put pressure on that. Like if we expect it and feel like “he doesn’t really love me unless..” then he will never do it because he feels the pressure to do so. Only when there is no pressure, can his desire truly exist on its own. That’s something I think about and struggle with too.

    The universe is so weird. I didn’t get the job I wanted and I told Mechanic because he has been checking in with me on the status of it–and he said he was sorry and offered to cook me dinner next week. What?? Is this him stepping up?? I don’t know–maybe he’s just being a good friend, or is that naive? Well, we will see if he actually does it. If he does great! If he doesn’t, I feel no loss. How funny is that! If you look at my posts from a year ago you’d read me pining and pining for this man…beating myself up over not being good enough…and here I am not caring?! Oh if only things could always be like this. If only I could feel like this towards every man at ALL times!

    But here I am still thinking of my long lost man. Who is staying away from me because of it I’m sure. My energy has not gone away–because I won’t let it. Let it go Millie!!! Let it go!! Clench your fists and let your energy go. Feel his memory leave your body. Stop punishing yourself. Stop wanting him, his body, his touch, his attention. Oh how it hurts–and feels awful–and feels good at the same time. Let it go. Siren Millie be a mermaid perched on the cove, sing your sweet heart out, comb your red hair, sing your hypnotizing song that drew him in once, but look beyond the ruins in front of you, sing to the ships far out at sea. Let your light, your song, reach them. Do not be afraid to let the broken wood you hold in your hand drift away…the wood you let splinter you.

    The world may feel like it’s ending–my job–my man–not what I planned–but the journey is not over. It doesn’t end here. It keeps going. The storm moves away and once again the sky is clear. Wait for those days. Create those days. For they will come…

    Wow I just felt like talking to myself and it felt amazing!! I only hope I can actually listen to that voice instead of my demons who pull me into the water and splinter me with driftwood, remains of ships gone.

    Who knew I was so poetic.

  395.  #395Femininewoman on May 15, 2015 at 5:02 am

    Lovergirl I think that guy was wrong. S was saying exactly what he wanted to and if I were you I would check myself with that pattern he highlighted.

    “saying at one point that because we were not in a “relationship” we weren’t “close”. I think this is a very telling statement about his thinking. What he thinks about women who provide their body to a man for sex when she is not in a relationship. I believe he, like many other men can’t “choose” such a woman because it turns off his attraction switch. For him the emotional connection might not be deep enough. Reminds me of an email I got from T-Dub

    “You can’t BOINK a man into loving you…

    T Dub here…

    I’d be lying if I said men weren’t attracted to a pretty face, shiny eyes and a smokin’ body…

    But…isn’t it also true?

    There’s not a woman in the history of the world
    who’s used her body to get a man to truly love
    her, commit to her and even lay down his
    life for her?

    Not aaaaa one!

    If you just want friends with benefits…

    Totally cool.

    This won’t help.

    But if you want him to taste your mind, soul and
    heart and never forget your flavor…”

  396.  #396Azure Blu on May 15, 2015 at 5:16 am

    I’ve done this before…
    Textd the wrong guy with someone elses message…
    I’m pretty sure S meant that text for someone else…

  397.  #397Lovergirl on May 15, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Femininewoman 394-

    I’m not trying to boink anyone into loving me. If S is incapable of feeling for me because we have had sex, then he definitely isn’t the man for me and I wish him lots of luck with a pruder woman. I am pretty sure that would be a really bad fit for him long term.

    S has a sexual history that would freak a lot of women out. I realize men tend to be hypocritical about this, but he is definitely not going to pair well with someone who can’t handle it. His past 2 girlfriends felt very threatened and I can’t blame them. In any case, I know a man who wouldn’t be attracted to a woman because she had sex outside of a relationship, is not the one for me.

    I went through the whole deal with my ex husband. We had sex in the very beginning and then he told me he felt guilty, like he wasn’t showing me respect.

    So we stopped! We didn’t have sex for a year and a half before getting married. I got the ring, the wedding, the “respect”, but I never really got love. Then, after marriage, I barely got any sex!! He wouldn’t even sleep with me on our wedding night! I don’t feel like catering to a man’s madonna/whore complex ever again!

  398.  #398Lovergirl on May 15, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Reposting because my comment went into moderation:

    Femininewoman 394-

    I’m not trying to boink anyone into loving me. If S is incapable of feeling for me because we have had sex, then he definitely isn’t the man for me and I wish him lots of luck with a pruder woman. I am pretty sure that would be a really bad fit for him long term.

    S has a sexual history that would freak a lot of women out. I realize men tend to be hypocritical about this, but he is definitely not going to pair well with someone who can’t handle it. His past 2 girlfriends felt very threatened and I can’t blame them. In any case, I know a man who wouldn’t be attracted to a woman because she had sex outside of a relationship, is not the one for me.

    I went through the whole deal with my ex husband. We had sex in the very beginning and then he told me he felt guilty, like he wasn’t showing me respect.

    So we stopped! We didn’t have sex for a year and a half before getting married. I got the ring, the wedding, the “respect”, but I never really got love. Then, after marriage, I barely got any sex!! He wouldn’t even sleep with me on our wedding night! I don’t feel like catering to a man’s madonna/wh*re complex ever again!

  399.  #399Lovergirl on May 15, 2015 at 7:07 am


    It’s very possible he meant it for someone else and I wondered that for a minute too. Then it was like, why wouldn’t he just say “sorry, wrong person”? Who knows. :p

    He called me last night, late, and I was on my way home from a movie with Chicago. He just wanted to talk about some idea he had for his business. I really think it was more of an excuse to talk than anything and to ensure that I am sticking around and not angry with him.

    He wanted me to watch some you tube video and I said I am driving you can send it to my email and I’ll look tomorrow. He never did. He just talked about it and asked if I had been on a “date” or at my “boyfriend’s house”. I was vague about who I was with but said I was at a movie.

    My heart just melts when he calls me. I find it impossible to stay angry with him about anything for long. Sigh…

  400.  #400Tereana on May 15, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Azure Blu – 381

    I love that the part you quoted of what Indigo wrote sounds like a version of the Serenity Prayer:

    “[G-d] grant me the serenity to sccept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”

    I think including “accepting what is” in that last part is just perfect. : )

  401.  #401Tereana on May 15, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Millie – 393: I love how you were just talking to yourself : ) You’re right! It’s not over! Not at all! You have no idea what’s coming next. It could be amazing : )

    And as for what happens, our vibe – you’re right. And I totally agree. Part of my problem is that when I think of myself as being in a relationship, it automatically sets me up to have unconscious expectations that then become conscious. And when they are not fulfilled, I feel like “something is wrong here.” Even if it isn’t. Even if he loves me just fine.

    Which is actually why I think I’m doing the best thing for me here. Taking myself out of a position where I think to myself “oh, I’m his girlfriend, I deserve X,” or, “If he really cared about me, he’d be doing XYZ.” Those things really sabotage my vibe. To put it mildly. Lol

    And yesterday was his birthday, actually. It occurred to me that I was sort of abandoning him on his birthday, a bit like he did for me, but different. Poetic, almost. But I took the opportunity to lean forward and say just one more thing – I clarified that I was not breaking up with him, and I wished him a happy birthday.

    He gets it. I can feel in my heart – and because I know him, and he already understood I was not the only guy I was dating when I met him – I know he gets that this is what I have to do for me. He’s not jealous.

    And the other cool thing this does (besides relax my vibe), is that I get time and space to do my own stuff, my own inner work. And this is so valuable. I need it.

    In fact, this morning I did a very powerful meditation. I was crying and I felt a lot of “shifting.” Then, unexpectedly, I got a text from V. It was like a huge relief. I sensed him there, still being there for me, I just didn’t knkw when I would see it. All of me is trusting and still feeling the connection between us. But it feels good to take the pressure off. Maybe I said it was taking the pressure off him, but it’s really taking the pressure off me to expect a certain thing or bunch of things to happen. It lets me be more available and aware of what’s in the present.

    That’s what it’s all about, right???

  402.  #402Tereana on May 15, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Lovergirl, what does it mean that S has a sexual history that would freak a lot of women out and that some of his past girlfriends were afraid of him?

  403.  #403Lovergirl on May 15, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    Tereana 401-

    None of his girlfriends were afraid of him. They just had a hard time with some of his past and trusting he would be faithful. Rightly so, because he did end up cheating. He was involved in a lot of gangbangs and some porn of that nature, I can search his name and find pictures online of him having sex with people, that kind of thing. His last girlfriend thought he had a porn addiction.