Demi Moore And Ashton Kutcher And Cheating

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cheatingI thought this was a fascinating article:

There’s so much I have to say about it – mostly it’s about:

There’s a level at which we women accept things – things we might not have ever thought we could accept, but things we kind of go along with, feel okay about, weigh the trade-offs of, make temporary decisions about, let time pass and hope weirdness will go away around, make excuses about, justify, reassure ourselves about, act cool around – until we aren’t okay with them anymore.

Sometimes the line is so small – no one else understands what was the “straw” that broke things for you.

Sometimes we don’t even know ourselves when the moment was when it was “okay,” and when the moment was when it was “not okay.”

It all turns into a blur, but a bad-feeling blur.

I don’t know what happened here for Demi – and I don’t believe (though I can’t know) that Ashton would have divorced her.

I don’t think there was any reason he’d want to leave her – I think he had everything he wanted, his cake and eating it, too – and is likely very offended that all of a sudden things aren’t “okay.”

When a man veers from “This is okay and acceptable in my relationship” to being a jerk who hurts a woman…sometimes it’s a very small thing, for him.

When you’re a celebrity – I don’t know how they do it.

There are no secrets you can keep.

No bargains or allowances you can make that people won’t eventually find out about.

No compromises that don’t come back to haunt you.

Everyone knows what it feels like to be humiliated – and we’ve seen many well-known women go through it majorly publicly – and I think, all of a sudden, we women have made some kind of a pact with each other.

We’ve kind of decided now, as a group, famous or not, that betrayal is not the straw that breaks the relationship. It’s not even about the sheer “jerkiness” of it. It’s the spirit  of the betrayal, and it’s the fallout.  Once everyone knows, it’s just not possible to carry on.

We’ve decided that we can no longer be the “good wife.”  I think that’s done, now.

Even if we love a man and want to carry on and patch it up – and he’s not trying to get out of the relationship or marriage – we just can’t do it anymore.

As the author of the article, Tracy Quan says, the key is when a woman feels “undermined.”

And that kind of says it for me.

The whole point, for me, of a romantic partnership is to assist each other to grow as a person.

And if what a man does affects a woman in a way that makes her have to choose whether she’s better off growing as a person by leaving him or by staying with him – and it seems that, no matter what else there is good and wonderful in the relationship, leaving him is the path to growth…then that’s the right road.

We could say, then, that staying with Bill Clinton was the path of growth for Hillary Clinton.  That, despite everything, the humiliation of his betrayal, all of it – he still was committed to her personal growth in a way no one else was.  That’s how she say it, and so she stayed – and I don’t think anyone would argue with her results.

Does this mean that we should stay with a man of power because it seems like the road to growth?

I’m not saying financial growth – I’m saying personal growth.  Growth as a person.

We can ALL see that Demi can surely meet many, many men who would support her personal growth, and that starting fresh is the way to go here.

So – the take away from this is – even though we’re not celebrities, with all kinds of obvious options – when a man who isn’t even betraying us is NOT supporting our personal growth – is that the time to leave?

Sometimes it’s subtle.  Sometimes the line is really, really blurry.

And I think now, that so many women are leaving so many men they might have stayed with before, is a great time to feel our own priorities and pressing needs.

Now’s the time to say what we want, practice warmth and love instead of fear and suspicion – and trust ourselves to leave when we’re endangering our well being.

Love, Rori



  1.  #1Jilly on November 28, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Wow…Rori..this is amazing…

    I love when you give your thoughts about celebrities..

    and my favorite line is “practice warmth and love instead of fear and suspicion-and trust ourselves to leave when we’re endangering our well being.”


  2.  #2Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Mine too Jilly.

  3.  #3Radiance on November 28, 2011 at 7:37 am

    “When a man who isn’t even betraying us is NOT supporting our personal growth – is that the time to leave?”

    I’ve been in a relationship for over 20 years and this is the question I have been asking myself daily lately. Even though he is a good man. A loving father. There is no romance, no passion. No s#x.

    Maybe he would support my personal growth more if I were better at identifying and expressing what I need. I am getting better at that all the time, but I still have a long way to go, and much healing to do on claiming my passion and pursuing it.

  4.  #4Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Grrrr I am at work for only 1.45 hour and I am already hearing P’s namr! How am I ever gonna forget him???

  5.  #5Radiance on November 28, 2011 at 7:55 am

    4 Lizka

    I loved this line from “Eat Pray Love”:

    “So miss me. Send me some love and light every time you think of me, then drop it. It won’t last forever.”

    Maybe you could try that with P. Miss him, send him some love and light when you think of him and then drop it. It won’t last forever.

    It is ok to miss him.

  6.  #6Radiance on November 28, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Here is another great line from “Eat Pray Love”

    Richard: “If you could clear you all that space in your mind, you would have a doorway. And you know what the universe would do? Rush in.”

  7.  #7surferchica on November 28, 2011 at 8:04 am

    I love this blog entry. At my al anon meeting last night, I said essentially this very thing. I was able to put up with humiliations, abusive rage, coercive sex, control, subtle passive-aggressive behaviors in my marriage for 23 years. I worked programs, went to therapy, read books, tried strategies to cope, focused exclusively on finding the good and leaving behind the bad, and developing a life that felt good to me as an individual.

    I did all of this…. until one day, in a blurry kind of “I can’t do this any more” feeling stole over me. It literally was a “straw that broke the camel’s back” kind of moment—not some thing I can point to and say “Look how terrible he is!” It was: I can’t do this to myself any more. I can’t betray myself any more by pretending. I can’t grow any more in this relationship.

    And I ended it.

    The exponential growth from that moment to this (3 years later) continues to stun me. My therapist says that women get to a moment in their marriages where they have the choice to flip a switch. When the switch flips, they rarely unflip it.

    Thanks Rori. Phenomenal blog entry.

    P.S. I’m in a new relationship that is so wholly nurturing and healthy—thanks to paying attention to your wise advice. I might have missed this incredible man otherwise. Thank you.

  8.  #8Lili 41 on November 28, 2011 at 8:29 am


    @”Now’s the time to say what we want, practice warmth and love instead of fear and suspicion – and trust ourselves to leave when we’re endangering our well being.”

    That’s exactly what I was aiming for in my post 576 from the previous thread.

    I feel the urge to do just that, but am feeling resistant bc of fear.

  9.  #9Jilly on November 28, 2011 at 8:56 am

    (((hugs))) FW 🙂

    I have met a man who seems “perfect for me” in a good way…we were just talking last night and he is totally supportive about my dreams and visions…feels refreshing..

    big breath…exhale 🙂

    I feel calm and easy about it…no anxiety or worry…this moment feels good 🙂 yay!

  10.  #10Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Is this a new one Jilly?

  11.  #11Susan on November 28, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Rori said:

    “There’s a level at which we women accept things – things we might not have ever thought we could accept, but things we kind of go along with, feel okay about, weigh the trade-offs of, make temporary decisions about, let time pass and hope weirdness will go away around, make excuses about, justify, reassure ourselves about, act cool around – until we aren’t okay with them anymore.”

    This pretty much describes both my marriages. And in both cases, it wasn’t so much the infidelity that made it impossible for me to stay. Both men tried to destroy me financially. I find myself wondering why I am attracted to men like this. I didn’t realize that truth when I was getting involved with those two men, but looking back… the signs were there. Why did that feel like love to me?

  12.  #12Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Jilly!!! So good to see your name.
    re #9
    Sounds intriguing!

  13.  #13Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Hey sirens I posted something on the other thread about a potential CD I met online that is being REALLY forward and stepping up and showing big time interest….but the physical attraction for me is not there. He is not bad looking at all, I just don’t feel any attraction.
    I normally feel attracted to mediterranean / hispanic/ middle eastern type men and this guy is as white as they come..LOL…so it’s foreign territory for me. I feel weird sharing that with all of you and feel afraid sirens will think it’s strange or offensive to talk about race.

    Anyway, he’s super nice and educated, clean cut, etc…
    so I am willing to give it a try. Eeek I feel so weird and like forcing attraction it feels bad….I don’t want to do that.
    I feel anxious….pressured…breathe breathe..

  14.  #14tinque on November 28, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Susan – Is this what you experienced as a child? Untrustworthy behavior? Parents who created chaos around you, leaving you feeling insecure and fearing for your stability?

    We tend to be attracted to what we know even if at first blush they seem completely different to what we had before.

    There is an odd comfort in familiarity even if it feels bad.

    Awareness is the key to changing our patterns and habits.

    xxoo Dominique

  15.  #15Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Emerson I am pretty sure I have seen where Rori wrote that we women “create” attraction. As the man does things to make us feel safe, says things that cause us to build trust then we can create the attraction. Maybe what you are looking for is chemistry or some special features that you unconsciously look for. As you have not met him yet, and he is long distance it is difficult for me to understand your panic/urgency. He is just for therapeutic reasons not a person that you are aiming at turning into a husband. Think of him as your brother or the nerdy guy you did not really like in high school

  16.  #16Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 9:57 am

    So tinque with that in mind is it then safe to only let men in who are attracted to us rather than the other way around? Should we allow time and history to help create the attraction for us?

  17.  #17Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 10:04 am

    FW 15
    The urgency and panic I feel is that he’s willing to drive 7 hours to see me….that feels like LOTS of pressure…from just seeing one pic of me on a website and exchanging a few emails…and he’s really gushing about me and kinda laying it on thick…it kinda scares me.

    I think he’s legit, it’s just that i’m not used to that. I feel pressured like “I better like him if he drives that far!”

    And I keep thinking about Recycled. 🙁 FW trying to apply what you told I think it was BW about putting TH in a little box in the corner of your heart and then leaving the rest open….but Recycled is greedy with heart real estate space. 🙁 🙁

  18.  #18Susan on November 28, 2011 at 10:11 am

    RE: 14: tinque says:

    “Susan – Is this what you experienced as a child? Untrustworthy behavior? Parents who created chaos around you, leaving you feeling insecure and fearing for your stability?”

    You’d think so, but no. My sister and I were both attracted to unstable and untrustworthy men and we came from a very stable home. I wish I understood this.

    From my family home, I remember being treated as less than bright. I am bright, but I think things through slowly and the pause needed to do that makes quicker thinking people think I am dim. My childhood home was pretty unremarkable, really. Both parents worked and got along with each other. They were financially careful and that is my default attitude towards money. Yet, I am attracted to untrustworthy men (by many definitions.) When I am responsible for my own finances, I am very stable. I have been cheated on in every important relationship I’ve ever had, yet my parents never cheated on each other. I dunno.

  19.  #19Susan on November 28, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Tinque ~

    In the relationship I have now, he has promised several times that he would not cheat on me. I didn’t ask him about this. He volunteers it. But he never uses the word ‘love’, so I wonder sometimes how believable his pledge is. I’m happy in this relationship, but these questions do come up in my mind. I’ve never before known a man to pledge fidelity without first declaring love. (BTW, he ACTS like he loves me. And he says ‘love’ scares him – a lot.)

  20.  #20Esteemed on November 28, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Rori said, “Now’s the time to say what we want, practice warmth and love instead of fear and suspicion – and trust ourselves to leave when we’re endangering our well being.”

    Yes, this is true. And that is the point I reached with K. After almost 12 years, I have ended the friendship. He is calling me every day. It takes a lot of will power to not pick up. Does anyone know how to block a particular number?

    He was dragging me down from my spiritual growth for almost 12 years. He was pressuring me to do things I didn’t want to do over and over. Nothing changed. If anything, it got more severe. It’s hard to say goodbye to someone who has been in your life for 12 years, but it had to happen. Please help me stay strong on this.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 10:20 am

    RE 17 Emerson that is too focused on their behavior. You have to be able to know that you are strong enough on the inside to trust yourself.

  22.  #22tinque on November 28, 2011 at 10:21 am

    FeminineWoman – I’m not sure I understand your question. Could you rephrase it please?

    xxoo Dominique

  23.  #23Queenbee on November 28, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Oh boy, it’s all happening at the same time. Feeling so disillusioned about infidelity and all of it….

    Marriage isn’t necessarily and ultimate goal for me. It’s beginning to seem rare that a man wouldn’t cheat.

    Chemistry is overrated… but I understand what it feels like to be on the other side. Wanting to sleep with a man who is married… thank goodness I didn’t do it, coz I don’t believe in that. But the chemistry is there….

    In my head, as a single woman, I would want a whole lot of options.

    I do want to sleep with any man I want and have four husbands in four corners of all the world who I visit at different times for variety. The rest of the time I can just be in my own space and just love myself and feel good. 🙂

    But it’s sooooo complicated. Can’t sleep with any man I want to… and even getting the relationship I want seems even more difficult. Not that I’ve even tried to do anything about it…. I think my excuses are time, boringness and pointlessness. Perhaps my city is just a strange place where I don’t believe I would get what I want.

    I’d like a man to take me on a jet set date… now how to find this man??? 🙂 So you see, boringness… what’s the point.

    I heard some women say that by the time you’re in your early 30s all the ‘available’ men will have some kind of past relationship issue eg. divorced or a child. OMG! That ideas pi$$es me off terrbly. One, I believe it’s a limited view. Two, the fear that this could be true.

    It would feel good to meet a man who is completely single as I am. I wonder, if I’ve been single all these years, why get involved with a man who has ‘past relationship’ stuff. I deserve a single man.

    So painful. So then I meet HAman Friday night after 7 months. I totally knew he would be at this event. So he follows me around … blah, blah, blah… we end up sitting right next to each other at the event (unknowingly that is)… and he’s come with some woman.

    He says he wrote me a long email, which he didn’t send and he’s been thinking about me etc. Blah, blah, blah… I totally don’t feel excited. If anything I feel angry and frustrated.

    It’s probably that blurry point that Rori talks about. I just can’t get over how badly I felt treated at one point with him and how left out and not special I felt.

    It may be all me… I’m creating all of it. End of the day, we are not compatible… or I just feel angry and frustrated… needless to say I haven’t met anyone else since or had S3x, which is beginning to feel awful 🙁

  24.  #24tinque on November 28, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Susan – There doesn’t necessarily have to be a direct correlation when you have these patterns in your life. Something, somewhere made you feel as you do and be attracted to who you are. It was how you interpreted it as a young one.

    You don’t really need to know the why, just that it is which you do, so you can work with it from there.

    It could be something to do with feeling and thinking that others thought of you as dim, so you created situations to reinforce this. This is what you knew. This is how your child’s mind may have interpreted love. But as I said it doesn’t really matter.

    As for having a man declare fidelity without having said love, this is nothing to worry about. I had the same with K. He didn’t say he loved until three years in, and he still says it rarely, but he shows me every single day, many times a day.

    xxoo Dominique

  25.  #25Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 10:26 am

    21 FW please elaborate…

  26.  #26tinque on November 28, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Emerson – I too would feel concern over the gushing. Driving seven hours is not as much a concern but all the verbiage around it is. It may be nothing, but if it were me, I would be keeping my senses high and be exercising caution.

    Never mind feeling pressured. If he wants to think he’s bowled over before even meeting you, that’s his deal, not yours. You just be you.

    xxoo Dominique

  27.  #27Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Susan I am wondering if you could have been influenced in that way by someone else who might have been a significant person in your life?

    Are you the one who talks about dreams. I had a very vivid one last night where I took my son to a soccer match. There were what looked like homeless people sleeping in the stands but they were relatively well dressed so I was not sure they were homeles. In any event one of the men started being disruptive so I tried to find out if there was anything I could help him with just to draw his attention away from the match and get him off the field so the kids could continue. Plus I was a bit afraid for their safety. In doing so I eventually offered him something to eat and that seemed to have stirred him up a bit up. As he seemed to be coming towards me I exited the field and ended up in a dark alley. He followed me and the next thing I knew I was trying to run down the alley fearing for my life acutely aware that I could hardly run because of a pain in my right hip. I was so panicked it seems my unconscious forced me out of my sleep to get away from the perceived attacker at 1:00 a.m. this mornign and I was not really able to go back to sleep.

    I used the opportunity to practice opening up my heart, and going deep into myself noticing the feelings and sensations bouncing around in my body. I also touched areas of my body to release tension and practiced sending healing breaths and love to different areas. I noticed many times tears rolled down my face unbidden. So though I was a bit disappointed that I could not go back to sleep an kind of shaken from the intensity of the dream I used to time to pour love over myself.

  28.  #28Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Tinque if we tend to be attracted to what we know, if we are sure that we we know for instance is bad should we not get involved with men we are initially attracted to?

  29.  #29tinque on November 28, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Queenbee – Long time no see…

    I too felt worried that there would be no men in their forties, available, single men without an ex, without kids, but I found there are. K was one. I had the ex, but he was soon to be completely out of the picture, and I had no children either. There may not be many of either gender like this, but they are out there. You can manifest this.

    xxoo Dominique

  30.  #30Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Emerson trust yourself enough to know that you would not throw yourself diberately in the line of danger. Trust your intuition to be able to stay in a safe environment and pick up on red flags that he might be waving. His gushing might be his way of trying to impress you. He is just a stranger that is doing what he does.

  31.  #31tinque on November 28, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Femininewoman – I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule about this. Time will show you, and rather quickly the more aware you become, that this man you are attracted to is another one of “those”.

    (By the way I loved it when you called me Dominique the other day. Please continue. I’ve only kept the tinque here because I don’t want to go into moderation for the name change, so I’ve been signing as the real me instead.)

    xxoo Dominique

  32.  #32Lili 41 on November 28, 2011 at 10:44 am



    You have had men that relied on your strength…

  33.  #33Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Thanks Dominique.

    Interesting comment Lil41. It reminded me of CCarter talking about roles that people play with each other. Slackers usually look for matyrs to pick up the slack for them. Now Susan I am wondering if you had a female role model who was always rescuing someone.

  34.  #34Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Susan I know this may sound a bit out there…but perhaps there was some kind of abuse in your family history that you were not aware of. Perhaps one of your parents was abused or exposed to some kind of abuse and it got passed onto you unconsciously.

    I discovered this about myself and the secrets in my family that I only found out a couple of years ago…that my Mother’s upbringing was an abusive environment… and my grandfather was violent with my grandmother. My family does not know that I know, I found out from other relatives that are closer to that side of the family (they are in Europe).

    After learning that, a lot of my choices/weirdness made sense. My Mother has been projecting her pain on me all these years. That sounds blamey but it’s true. She still has not dealt with it and it’s hard for me to deal with sometimes. Anyway the thing about it is that everyone always acts like it was la la land growing up in that house and that everything was fine, but it was not.

    I always had this weird gut feeling that something wasn’t right and there were secrets but it took till my mid 30s to find out the truth.

    It would have been sooo helpful for me to have known this sooner. I would have been able to heal some things and understand better.

    Dealing with that has been part of my healing for the past two years.

  35.  #35Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Thanks Tinque and FW for the feedback.
    I will not be pressured and I will keep the pace as I feel comfortable. I am in control of me.

  36.  #36Susan on November 28, 2011 at 11:09 am

    I’m sorry, FW, your dream doesn’t strike any kind of response in me. It seems like the meaning is personalized from your life rather than generally symbolic.

  37.  #37Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Tried this just yesterday

    “I would suggest you try this:

    1. Stop whatever you’re thinking.

    2. Stop whatever you’re doing

    3. Take a breath and get quickly into the Rori Raye Dance Position.

    This means: Open your palms out to the world, lean your body back, unzip your heart, let your heart out to breathe, let your shoulders drop, check in with your body to find out where you’re holding tension, and focus in deeply on how your body and your heart are feeling.

    4. Now, ask yourself for a feeling or sensation — any feeling, any sensation that feels true to you in the moment. Try mad, sad, glad, or afraid for starters.

    Keep it simple.

    5. Speak Your Truth

    Say it this way: “I feel (mad, sad, glad, afraid).”

    That’s all you have to tell him, which is usually the hardest thing since we women work so HARD to hide what we’re really feeling. But telling him what you’re feeling in plain language like this is exactly what he can really hear.

    6. Now, Stand There.

    That’s it. Just stand there. Breathe.

    Shake if you’re feeling shaky. Stay really, really checked-in with your body.

    This means check in with how you feel after you’ve said these words out loud — right in the presence of the man. Or over the phone.”

    The only thing was I said “what was that about when I would normally take my sword out and start fighting. He responded by explaining himself kind of unintelligently then came over later to the room where I was to help me with the computer. I learned that I tend to be cold (which was what was being reacted to with harshness) and that I can respond differently to what I feel is an attack.

  38.  #38Jilly on November 28, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Hey Emerson…thank you! I’ve never been #1 before on the blog..yay 🙂

    FW…yes he is a new one…and he just showed up out of the blue..I signed up for again and on the first day he messaged me and we exchanged about 5 emails..then he asked if we could do dinner..then he asked if he could call me..

    we talked for a long time on the phone (I NEVER do that anymore) and then met for a really nice dinner…and talked for 2 hrs…and

    he’s 40, no kids, great job, super active, really stable…

    He’s not someone I am attracted to right away…but I know that that can change, that’s happened multiple times for me …I REALLY enjoy being with him…

    so we’ll see 🙂

    and great question on #28
    Dominique…great answer as well 🙂

  39.  #39Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Thanks Jilly I for some reason tend to get responses from long distance guys on match so I tend not to take that site seriously. I guess I could take a second look at it.

  40.  #40Susan on November 28, 2011 at 11:20 am

    RE: 34: Emerson says:

    “Susan I know this may sound a bit out there…but perhaps there was some kind of abuse in your family history that you were not aware of. Perhaps one of your parents was abused or exposed to some kind of abuse and it got passed onto you unconsciously.”

    That is something I had not considered. My mother was sexually abused when she was young. And treated by the family as unwanted, and therefore expendable. She was the unexpected twin baby from a pregnancy where only 1 baby was expected. Her birth was greeted with cries of dismay and she was handed over to the eldest sister to raise so that the mother could raise the male twin. She was forced to leave school when she was 14 to go to work and support the family so that the ‘valuable’ children could continue in school. Even her sexual abuse resulted in her being considered as not valuable – they were poor and a man who brought food to the family did so only because he was allowed ‘alone time’ with my mom when she was quite young. I had not considered this in the equation – even though I knew of it.

  41.  #41Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 11:24 am

    RE 34 Emerson that sounds like my past. My grandmother died when my mother was 11 but stories suggest she endured some physical abuse. My mother experienced that with the first man she was with and walked away immediately leaving a very young child with him. She also suggested that my dad hit her once because of my sistern being ill as a baby and my mother was stubbornly refusing to be alarmed and running to the hospital. She told him that if it ever happened again she would leave. Apparently it never hapened again. Thanks for sharing that because it has never been something that I have focussed on as possible in my life though I know I am not attracted to guys who seem sweet. I tend to be attracted to aggressive guys and just last week was talking about one of my exes with a mutual friend. The friend suggested that another guy we know, who is attracted to me is also aggressive but in a different kind way and was suggesting that I give him a chance. Now that I have typed this up I find myself shaking a bit with fear because I have always attracted to aggression and have done things to bring it out in men. It is as if I have always wanted to see their anger and have unconsciously invited rage towards me.

  42.  #42Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Susan, I’m so sorry for your Mom. That story is shocking and heartbreaking! I feel teary reading it. 🙁 🙁

  43.  #43Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:29 am

    41 ((FW)) thank you for sharing that.

    I think for me my Mom enlisted me to be her codependent subject so she could continue to stuff her feelings and project them onto me instead.
    Now that I’m resisting there is a lot of anger spewign from me and a lot of tears from her. I feel badly about it because she is older now, but I simply cannot tolerate it anymore and I find it so offensive when she tries to “give” to me…when as a young adult I was expected to figure everythign out on my OWN and put myself thru college etc.

    I’m just tired. Feeling very jumbled and alone right now. My head feels cloudy. I’m wishing I had an established relationship with a man to lean on. But finding it hard to fathom starting a new one right now.

    FW thanks for posting the exercise with the dance position. I will cut and paste that for a safe place and later reference.


  44.  #44Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Also my Mom displays the classic abuse victim behaviors…tentative and careful and not confident and timid….and almost treating ME as the abuser if I so much as stand up for myself.

    Painful things to realize.

  45.  #45Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Emerson here is more from that email

    “Shake if you’re feeling shaky. Stay really, really checked-in with your body.

    This means check in with how you feel after you’ve said these words out loud — right in the presence of the man. Or over the phone.

    My tool of Circular Dating will help you with this — because you will get to practice doing this with men who aren’t important in your life, and so it feels less risky and scary.

    7. Now what about his part?

    How can you possibly know what he will say?

    Well, actually… you KNOW what he’s going to say!

    He’s either going to go “negative”:

    Put you down, and make you feel small and silly. Or…

    Clam up and get mad. Or…

    Clam up and withdraw.

    Or go “positive.” And, you may be surprised, but this is WAY MORE LIKELY to happen. This is all new, remember! He will likely be very surprised, caught off guard, and feel RELIEVED!

    He’s likely to ask you a question. He’s likely to say “What’s wrong?” Or “Why?”

    And he’s likely to do this with curiosity and concern if he cares about you!

    So you get to make a couple of choices in advance. You get to prepare.

    You get to prepare for a negative, defensive response, and you get to prepare for the “Why?” questions.

    If your man automatically gets defensive when things aren’t going exactly the way he wants them to go, then you know he’s going to get defensive.

    He’s going to put his arms in front of his body, and he’s going to look down his nose at you, and he’s going to try to distance you.

    On the other hand, if he lets his arms go down by the side of his body, leans in toward you and seems fairly shocked — you may have opened up a whole new pathway to love in this relationship!

    So we Script this!

    We script an answer for if he gets defensive or withdraws or goes cold, and we script an answer for if he asks you what you mean.

    And it works exactly the same way as the Tool I just laid out.

  46.  #46Susan on November 28, 2011 at 11:37 am

    RE: 33: Femininewoman says:

    “Interesting comment Lil41. It reminded me of CCarter talking about roles that people play with each other. Slackers usually look for matyrs to pick up the slack for them. Now Susan I am wondering if you had a female role model who was always rescuing someone.”

    Yes. My mother has been a rescuer for as long as I can remember. Even if you don’t want her to. She seems driven to do it.

    This conversation is opening up new ideas for me…

  47.  #47Susan on November 28, 2011 at 11:47 am

    RE: 24: tinque says:

    “As for having a man declare fidelity without having said love, this is nothing to worry about. I had the same with K. He didn’t say he loved until three years in, and he still says it rarely, but he shows me every single day, many times a day.”

    Thank you for saying that.

    Sweet Man may not use the word ‘love’ but he does use the terms ‘care for deeply’ and crazy about’ and ‘so very happy’ and ‘never felt this way before – not quite this trustingly happy.” He says I offer a level of acceptance that both scares him and draws him in. He is used to women who he used to have to constantly work to please and he is surprised how easily he can please me – and that it makes he want even more to please me.

    This seems like a healthy relationship to me, but considering my past… I wonder if I’m a good judge of that.

  48.  #48Susan on November 28, 2011 at 11:56 am

    RE: 42: Emerson says:

    “Susan, I’m so sorry for your Mom. That story is shocking and heartbreaking! I feel teary reading it. 🙁 🙁 ”

    Thank you. Despite my mom’s overbearing need to fix everyone, she is a good and kind person and didn’t deserve the raw deal she got when she was young. All this happened during the Great Depression. Lots of awful things happened then. She hoards food, and oddly enough… so do I. No one trips over it – it isn’t that kind of hoarding. But there is canned or dried food stored in nearly every room in my house. It is out of sight, but it is there. 🙂 We won’t go hungry, LOL!

  49.  #49tinque on November 28, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Susan – Maybe he thinks the word “love” is overused which it is, so these other ways of expressing himself mean more to him.

    Again time will tell if this is a forever man or not. I don’t think any of us are all that well equipped to tell no matter how much work we’ve done on ourselves.

    It’s still very easy for us to become all caught up in the romance of it all. And there is always risk taking involved.

    What I want to say is that the ducks are never all lined up in a row.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    xxoo Dominique

  50.  #50Tiffany on November 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Tinque – Is your real name Dominique???

    I haven’t seen you use it before!

  51.  #51Susan on November 28, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    RE: 49: tinque says:

    “Again time will tell if this is a forever man or not. I don’t think any of us are all that well equipped to tell no matter how much work we’ve done on ourselves.”

    Very true. I do know that he makes me very happy in the here and now. I try to focus on that more than anything else. We’ve made it a year…

  52.  #52Tiffany on November 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Emerson – I felt like responding to something you wrote in the past thread, #599 – at least I’m pretty sure that was you – where you said you were afraid to date men online, and preferred to meet them organically.

    Although I see something here, in this thread, about a man who is approaching you online.

    But I’ll respond regardless.

    I think it doesn’t matter if you meet the man online, or in person. I was wary of dating online for a loooong time. I just didn’t think it was necessary, and also, I was scared of “weirdos,” just like you – and a lot of people – are.

    But I’ve discovered that it is exceedingly normal. For one thing, the guys are just as scared as we are. A lot of them are kind of embarrassed to be on a dating website, and would probably rather meet a woman “in real life” also. They are scared that they are going to meet a crazy woman who will do any number of things to hurt him. Guys are sensitive and become attached and get hurt as well. They’re people.

    I’ve also found that it’s easy to weed out the “weirdos” if you are paying attention. Of course, I have mistakenly interacted too much with someone who turned out to be a bad guy, and later regretted it. But the signs were there. The trick is to pay attention. It’s easy to block someone or simply ignore them if they are giving you a bad vibe.

    The one drawback to online dating, I’ve found, for me, at least, is that, when you have your profile up, which includes a lot of information about your thoughts and feelings – at least what you are willing to reveal – that leads not to people stalking you, but rather, it leads to the guys thinking that they “know” me before we’ve even been on a date. I’ve found, in some instances, it’s created a false level of intimacy before we’ve even met. And it’s not accurate, because even if you know a lot about someone, you still don’t know them until you meet them.

    So, in all, I think dating is awkward and uncomfortable for everyone, no matter how you meet the person. But it can also be fun. If you think less about how people are going to stalk you, take measures to protect yourself, and instead relax and focus on the interesting and nice people you might meet, then it’s okay.

    That being said, I’ve been off OK Cupid for several months now, and have found plenty of CDs “organically” in real life – and from the one Indian dating site I signed up for (tehee!).

    Either way, it’s about being a siren and doing what feels comfortable. If you don’t like online dating, then there’s no reason that you absolutely have to do it!


  53.  #53T-Girl on November 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Susan, my guy sounds just like your guy as far as saying the word “love”. I haven’t heard my guy say it yet but he demonstrates it. I am ok with it now because I think if I heard him say it, it would make me nervous because I am realizing that I am not over that fear yet of saying those words myself.

    I know for a fact that he makes me so happy, and I tell him that. Tomorrow we are leaving for a getaway trip to the coast to celebrate my birthday. I am so excited and so ready to get away!

  54.  #54tinque on November 28, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Yes it is Tiffany. I changed this on my own site a bit ago because I have been feeling increasingly uncomfortable using an alias when a big part of my work involves encouraging women to be authentic. Using my alias, even though I’ve always been upfront about my name, has felt a bit like hiding.

    Like I said before, I have kept the tinque moniker so I won’t go into moderation plus Rori likes it.

    xxoo Dominique

  55.  #55Tiffany on November 28, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    @ Emerson #43 – “I think for me my Mom enlisted me to be her codependent subject so she could continue to stuff her feelings and project them onto me instead.”

    “Also my Mom displays the classic abuse victim behaviors…tentative and careful and not confident and timid….and almost treating ME as the abuser if I so much as stand up for myself.”

    Are you sure that we don’t have the same mom??? lol

    I mean, I say lol, but it’s not funny at all…it is indeed painful to realize…(((hugs)))

  56.  #56femmystique on November 28, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    FW, Susan, Emerson


    I feel so connected to you all here; I too am dealing with an abusive, co-dependent, approval-seeking people-pleasing childhood, and I too know it all stems from my maternal grandmother, who did not want to marry ever, and was forced, at age 28 to marry a man 30 years her senior.

    My own mother had issues from her childhood as a result, and won’t talk about them but I understand her mother singled her out for abuse (she was 3rd eldest)

    It appears that I have taken my mothers place in this dynastic problem as 3rd eldest too; she had always singled me out and seemed to subject me to all the horrible humiliations that she must have endured.

    I don’t know for certain, but I do know that I had such an unbearable childhood I buried the feelings and stuffed everything down so completely that to this day I have little memory of my childhood.

  57.  #57Tiffany on November 28, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    #54 – I like “Tinque” too!

    I never felt that you were being inauthentic by using a different moniker. But I can definitely see how it makes sense to use your real name publicly, as well.

    Thanks for sharing 🙂

  58.  #58faith on November 28, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Rori this was absolutely wonderful!! made me think of so many things.. thank you!!

  59.  #59Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    RE 56 me. After writing that response to Emerson I started to feel nauseous so I went to the bank before going to the health food store to get my green juice. While standing in the bank I felt tension rising behind my ears, numbness around my mouth and nose so I started tapping on the tension. I next went to get the juice and just the taste of it was the most pleasant I have had in ages. It quickly erased the rest of the nauseousness I was still feeling and the pounding behind my ears. Again confirming that my feelings from childhood have been stuffed by food. I too hardly remember anything from my childhood. Though I have a vivid memory of leaning against my mother sucking my tongue while she kept sticking me with a needle on it to stop the habit. I also remember only one tender moment with my father; when he was totally drunk.

  60.  #60Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Again. 3rd time today. We were talking about the hot guys we have at our office and my boss just said randomly “P should not have leave”, meanig that he was the hottest. I can’t hear it one more time, I don’t wantto hear again how he was perfect, and cute, ans performant, and such a nice guy. I want people to shut up and respect me. It makes me feel so sad, and mad, and feeling like I want to cry. Right now I hate my job just for that.

  61.  #61Tiffany on November 28, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Hm…it seems we have a theme here of codependent mothers who abused us emotionally if not physically (which is sometimes more damaging). Support group!

    I was actually just about to post about this from Matthew and Orna:

    “Creating love from inside you means that the source of love will never leave you.  Love is not dependent on another person, or a particular circumstance, or on you behaving a certain way – it is generated from within.  Knowing that YOU are the source of the love that you desire is the “secret sauce” to being attractive.  Take an action today that is completely loving toward yourself, and continue to make self-love a regular practice.  If you won’t make the effort or take the time… how could you ever expect that someone else will?”

    (Love Notes Weekly)

    I love their little love notes. But I have to say, I still struggle with this IMMENSELY. Yes, I get the concept that loving myself first is the way to go. Yes, I understand, logically, how, if I am the source of love, then I am never going to “leave” or abandon myself. Self-love is renewable. the problem isn’t that. The problem is with the very nature and energy of “love.” As in, what is your definition of love?

    If “love” means abusing myself and neglecting myself, and not listening to me, and ignoring my feelings, and treating myself like a commodity – like a thing and not a person – and denying my true desires, then I’ve been loving myself up like crazy! lol

    And the truth is, even though I know, cognitively and instinctually, that those things are not “love” because they feel bad, they still fall into the automatic definitely of “love” for me, because this is how it was defined by my mother, early on, and continuing throughout my childhood.

    Wow, I feel a tight feeling around my ears as I am writing this. I feel a strange stirring in my abdomen, that might be fear of reprisal. My right ear is ringing. I am taking a deep breath….

    It feels strange to see myself write this out. My first thought, when I read Matthew and Orna’s “love note” was that I was failing – that I was failing at “loving myself” because I don’t know how, don’t understand, and have no concept of what that would feel like. At least according to the kind of love they are talking about. But on the other hand, I love myself a lot. The problem is, that all this time, I have been showing myself love the way my mother showed me love – through self-criticism, self-abnegation, disrespecting myself and sabotaging my dreams and desires.

    I have SUCCEEDED in loving myself. Just in the warped, poisonous way I was taught to as a child.

    And if I don’t do that, I don’t “feel loved.”

    It’s bizarre, I know. It sounds so wrong. And it is wrong.

    but maybe it is for a lot of us to discover that love doesn’t feel the way we think it should feel. Maybe love has its own ideas. And maybe, if we stick with ourselves, we can figure it out, and REMEMBER that we already know how to love ourselves. We’ve just forgotten. We’ve adapted to the abusive ways of “love” and believed the lie that was fed to us, for the purposes of survival. But we don’t need the lie anymore. And the truth is, we’ve loved ourselves all along. We survived because we believed in ourselves, and we loved ourselves. Even when we knew, deep down, that we weren’t getting the treatment we deserved. And we KNOW we can do better.

    So I’m going to try.

    Right now, I am loving myself by…breathing. That’s a start. It seems simple. But I’m just going to start there. Today, I will think of breathing as loving. And I’m just going to see where that takes me.

    I feel good about it already 🙂

    What do you ladies want to do to love yourselves today??

  62.  #62tinque on November 28, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    You can call me whatever makes you feel good. I prefer my real name, but I’m very okay with either.

    xxoo Dominique

  63.  #63faith on November 28, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Hello Tinque.. Hope you are doing well.

    I have read Rori’s blog for a while now and I have asked you for advice..which you gave me some great advice. I would like to say thank you for that.
    I know many people ask you for advice and i know you probably don’t really remember my situation.. but I have usually asked, “why hasn’t my ex bf called me after 6 months??”
    Well i still haven’t heard from him.. it will soon be 7months. THe thing is Tinque that my feelings are still super strong for him. I still feel like i love him and want to be with him. I mean i don’t know what to do at this point. Is there any advice you can give me?? on why i still feel this way about him.. on why i still think about him calling me (also i have never reached out to him).
    I’m sorry to keep asking the same thing…. its just so unbelievable to me that i haven’t heard from him. I mean our relationship was serious (2 years). I am really still confused…. and i just wish i had answers..

  64.  #64Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Radiance 5 and 6.

    Thank you but I’m not sure it’s a good idea. I’m trying to kick him out of my life, heart, head. Not sure that telling him that I love him will make it. Than he answer, and I feel hope. Or he doesn’t, and I feel mad and sad…

  65.  #65Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Now reading all the comments about the childhoods I can’t help feeling like we are all rushing to compete for the victim position. My childhood was rough but I am still grateful for it because some others died because of the treatment they received. I am also learning to try to practice compassion towards my parents with the understanding that they were doing the best they could with what they had.

  66.  #66Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Ahhh I’m so sad. Right now I hate my job just for that. Because it makes me think of him every day. Im even thinking of changing job just for that. But i would be stupid. What can I do then???

  67.  #67Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Radiance, by “sending him love” do you mean contacting him or just “in my head” ?

  68.  #68Daria on November 28, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Omg I just had this ‘difficult’ man flip and tell me I’m not pretty and I was like whaa

    Lol then he’s like I’m just kidding

    Omg lol.

    What a funny crazy dude

    I think he is gay tho. I seriously ‘get that’ from him.

    Cuz he sometimes acts not masculine in his emotional behavior. Not mannerisms, just some things where other men would be drawn in strongly he seems … Unaffected or maybe even competitive?

    Like I’m like oh I feel bad, he’ll be like I feel worse

    But in like a subtle way

    I dono

    I just really got that impression.

  69.  #69Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I think FirstCD has officially poof. Bye bye…

  70.  #70tinque on November 28, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    faith – You may never know why. You seem to be seeking closure or better yet him coming back and things being as they were, but if it’s been this long, chances are he’s gone. Why is impossible to say, commitment issues, fear of intimacy, any number of other reasons. Maybe this wasn’t as serious for him as it was for you, and you created more out of it than it was.
    It’s so hard to know.

    Somehow you need to find it in you to let him go, get on with your life, and the best way to do this is not only filling your life with people and activities which feel good to you, it’s also involves CDing. You don’t have to actually go on dates if you don’t feel ready, but do flirt, make eye contact, date yourself.

    xxoo Dominique

  71.  #71Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    From CCarter

    If you follow this pattern with men who aren’t already FEELING much ATTRACTION or CONNECTION with you, then again, it’s probably going to backfire.

    I mean, men know when they are getting “vibes” that a woman is into them. And for the most part, they feel it’s harmless and maybe even mildly flattering. But when you start PURSUING him and talking about how you feel, you create NEGATIVE TENSION.

    So if he’s NOT already into you, it’ll go like this:

    He thinks of you as a friend… You tell him you like him… He gets that “yikes” feeling and withdraws.

    And finally, the third strategy is what I call the “FREE SEX” strategy.

    Another name for this is “friends with benefits.”

    You’re using sex to try to “make” a man feel it for you.

    After all, the more you’re with him that way, the deeper your feelings get for him.

    So why shouldn’t it work the same way for HIM, right?


    The reality is that men can often be physically intimate with a woman and not even be THINKING “relationship” at all. To him, it’s just sex, it’s fun and feels nice, and if he’s NOT feeling real emotional attraction for you, he’ll disappear as soon as you start asking for anything deeper or “real.”

    Like a relationship. Or what he’s feeling about YOU

    These beliefs also communicate that the woman is “higher status” and thus naturally compel a man to think she’s unique and someone worth his time and attention.

    In other words, these are the “attitudes” a woman projects which make her irresistible to a man.

    It’s what a woman is saying without actually saying it at all. She says it with her body language, with the way she carries herself and the way she behaves inside a relationship.

    They’re BELIEFS because a woman actually believes these to be true about herself and her life.

    You can’t just “wing it” unfortunately.

    Here are just a few:

    >>I don’t let a man determine what I want/will have in my love-life.

    This kind of woman won’t “settle” for a man who isn’t giving her what she wants and needs, emotionally.

    >>I’d move on and leave a man before I’d let him ruin my life.

    This woman won’t stay in a relationship that’s abusive, degrading or morally questionable. She also won’t put up with bad behavior from a man. Integrity and trust are important to her, and she lets him know that.

    >>I wouldn’t keep a man from doing the things he enjoys.

    She knows that her man is an adult who has the right to make his own choices. She respects his “freedom” and his need to pursue his goals and dreams.

    And that’s just for starters

  72.  #72Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    71 is a cut and paste so it does not flow as it originallyb appeared.

  73.  #73faith on November 28, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    thank you Tinque…. i don’t know why after so long i still have hopes for him returning.. maybe i just need that final goodbye/conversation.. our relationship ended so quickly and i feel like something is missing. I don’t know but it still bothers me so much and everyday i still have hopes that he will call me.. that something will trigger him to call me…. but you’re right it has been a long time and he most likely has moved on………….

  74.  #74Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Hello, world. I’m thankful for a wonderful Thanksgiving Weekend.

  75.  #75Laughing Goddess on November 28, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    FW: I noticed myself wanting to share about my family history and then felt concerned that I was being a victim by sharing that tired old story.

    I can definitely relate to the codependent mother story. My mom got pregnant with me at 16. I got to experience her growing up.

    And now I find myself at the age of 39 finally wanting children. I love children yet I always felt an inner desire to go out and experience life before having them.

    Right now I am feeling through my resistance to having children…as well as my desire to have them…or at least one. Sitting with my internal conflict.

    I am considering getting a job working with children or somehow finding a way to combining drumming with working with children.

    I would love to combine those passions in a way that empowers kids and enhances their self-esteem.

    Mmmmmm, that feels yummy to share!

    I just realized that I made a but of a jump in logic….and didn’t explain that part of the reason I want to work with children is because I think it will help me sort out my inner conflict about having them and also bring kid energy into my life which I am really craving right now.

  76.  #76English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    OK ladies/Sirens lining up the CD’s for when I make my big move down south to London in a few weeks, not much good meeting up with men up here when I am headed off down there. 🙂

    Got some cuties lined up too, but who knows they may poof off after a message or two, but it doesn’t matter because men come and go like water. 😀

  77.  #77English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Don’t like to hear Demi should have done this or that (not saying that is what Rori says) but maybe she was just in a marriage with an immature boy who couldn’t keep it in his pants…………….just saying………

  78.  #78Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    @Rori Raye says:

    “…And that kind of says it for me.

    The whole point, for me, of a romantic partnership is to assist each other to grow as a person.

    And if what a man does affects a woman in a way that makes her have to choose whether she’s better off growing as a person by leaving him or by staying with him – and it seems that, no matter what else there is good and wonderful in the relationship, leaving him is the path to growth…then that’s the right road…

    That kind of says it for me too.

  79.  #79Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    “Romantic partnership.” That’s my intention.

  80.  #80femmystique on November 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Tiffany @61

    Thanks for your post;

    FW: your response feels bad to me, I don’t think we are all rushing to compete for victim status via our childhoods. Many unhealthy co-dependency traits are developed in childhood, and can take many adult years to deal with and heal.

  81.  #81Mel on November 28, 2011 at 2:08 pm


    Sexy Sarcastic has decided to reappear!

    It was actually soooooo funny…

    Just yesterday, I was about to send a blackberry message to my sister and I noticed he had changed his profile pic, so I had a look. I said “Huh… I don’t really feel that attracted ” (to myself) and then went about getting ready for a date with Mr. Architect.

    Not 20 minutes later, I get a text from him out of the blue (there’s no way to tell if someone looked at your blackberry pic, so it wasn’t that). And we messaged back and forth a bit. Then I said I had to run and when I checked my phone later that night, he had texted: “I thought we had fun before. Would be cool to go out out again…”

    Not sure what happened here… I guess the girls he saw in the greener pasture weren’t as awesome as cute little me standing in my meadow of wildflowers! Not sure if i want to go out with him again though. I think he taught me what I needed to learn… Still thinking on it!

  82.  #82Laughing Goddess on November 28, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    EW: i feel turned off when I hear people saying that someone “should” have done something differently. The word should just triggers me.

    At the same time, I don’t feel good with the other option of blaming it on him for being immature, etc. That approach feels really blameful to me and I am wanting to let go of the vibration of blame.

    I wonder what thought feels best to me?

    Well, I feel best thinking that Demi has grown and expanded from this happening and is now feeling even more love for herself. And maybe this contrast has helped her to be even more clear on what she wants. And Ashton, well I don’t really know what his intentions or actions were yet I wish the best for him, her, and the children involved.

    Yes, this feels good to think, so I will stick with that.


  83.  #83Laughing Goddess on November 28, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    I felt reaonance with FW’s use of the word victim. For me, I find it very useful to be self-aware of when I am going into victim mode, which I used to do often about my childhood.

    I feel more empowered when I choose to see my past through the eyes of gratitude and compassion.

    With that said, exploring the past can help us to unravel our patterns…which can be helpful too.

  84.  #84Radiance on November 28, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    64 & 67 Lizka

    I see now that wasn’t clear. Yes, “send him love” internally in your mind & heart, not actually contacting him. As you said, that would just stir things up.

    I like the idea as a way of briefly honoring/acknowledging what a man has meant to me and then releasing it. Not beating myself for the intrusive thoughts, but not dwelling on them for long either.

  85.  #85April Rose on November 28, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Hello Esteemed,

    Reading your post, no. 20, I feel in awe of you.
    You have cut contact with a man who didn’t support your growth and well-being, is that right?
    I feel a lot of warmth in my heart for you. Twelve years is a long time. I would feel scared to break a long attachment like that.
    I want to encourage you stay strong and do what feels absolutely the best thing for YOU in all situations.

  86.  #86April Rose on November 28, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Hello Esteemed,

    Reading your post, no. 20, I feel in awe of you.
    You have cut contact with a man who didn’t support your growth and well-being, is that right?
    I feel a lot of warmth in my heart for you. Twelve years is a long time. I would feel scared to break a long attachment like that.
    I want to encourage you stay strong and do what feels absolutely the best thing for YOU in all situations.

  87.  #87Laughing Goddess on November 28, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Oh gosh, now I remember why I haven’t been posting much lately, because I feel sooooo frustrated with my Internet connection. I feel so impatient with it.

    Yet I feel excited because in 1 1/2 weeks we are getting high-speed Internet installed. They finally made it available in our area. Yay!!!!

    Also, I feel uncomfortable with some of my wording in above posts. I feel concerned that my words were awkward and came across as confrontational when they were not intended that way. I’m experimenting with using as many feeling messages and it may sound a bit strange.

    Ahhh, I love my awkward experimenting self
    I love that I care about how my words feel to myself and others
    I love my imperfect and ever-expanding self
    I love and accept my awkwardness…well, sort of 😉 …I’m working on it.

  88.  #88Radiance on November 28, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    I have been lurking on and off for over two years and recently have been reading the blog and comments a little more consistently… and really feeling support from the insights gained through Siren tales and Siren wisdom and Siren sharing.

    Thank you to ALL the Sirens who share! Regardless of where you are in your learnings and healing, I feel honored to read about your process and learn and grow from your trials and successes and expressions too!

    I feel very grateful.

    My heart feels open.

    I feel teary.

    I feel smiley.

    I feel warmth towards women who have such big hearts to share and such eagerness to grow.

  89.  #89Ella on November 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm


    Do you think we can block our own personal success without even realising it?

    I am thinking of my businesses and in particular my Zumba classes.

    The numbers are so up and down and I am always promoting them… AND I believe I am a good teacher and strive to keep them fresh/fun…

    My friend has been a teacher for quite a bit longer than me and her classes are booming and always have been.

    Mind you the areas she teaches in don’t have any other Zumba classes whereas mine do…

    I am just wondering though if there might be something in my vibe that could be blocking me?

    Cus it just kinda feels like they could be busier and something is getting in the way…

    Any ideas?


  90.  #90Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Don’t know what might be blocking it Ella. It could be a belief but I know that we can block our own light. The interview with Rori and Russell Feingold basically says as much.

  91.  #91Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    75 etc..
    Laughing Goddess
    I just wanted to let you know that I feel better after reading your words thank you….I don’t feel so alone

  92.  #92Ella on November 28, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    FW thanks

    Where can I see/read that interview?

  93.  #93Ella on November 28, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    EW re 77


  94.  #94Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Thanks sirens who commented on what I shared…etc…

    My Mom was usually always “sweet”, not abusive in the sense of the word, but gave me WAY too much emotional responsibility for my age and I always sensed an emotional neediness in her and a fragility….and she taught me to operate in the world that way.

    She also “overgives” (crumbs-choosing what SHE wants to give cuz it makes her feel good) and at the same time does not LISTEN to my real needs…even when I verbalize them…regarding my feelings, she always has to flip it that her feelings are more important, and she gets upset like how dare I not accept her help or whatever (NV = that I’m ungrateful). I guess passive aggressive is one way to put it.

    When things get tough and she’s held accountable she turns on the victim card and waterworks and everyone feels bad because she is so SWEET all the time. Her addiction is spending $$ and it’s caused a lot of stress in our family.

    I REALLY have to watch this in myself, because I get a lot of relief from stress by shopping, and I’ve really had to make an effort do direct elsewhere to relieve stress like hiking, outdoors, etc…but I still feel tempted to shop for stuff to feel better.

  95.  #95Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    It was a hard day. I don’t know what to say. It doesn’t feel good not to be able to describe your day. In general, nothing really good happened. I feel really annoyed by people talking about P around me all day. I feel sad that it’s not going exactly how I would like with E and I feel scared that it might never happen the way I dream of it. I feel afraid that he’s not gonn call me. I feel tense when I’m at work. I feel sad for my mom who’s all alone everyday. I feel tired and I feel kind of sick. I feel cowardly and I don’t want to go to my date tomorrow. I feel like this guy doesn’t really has interest in me yet and just want to meet me to judge if I worth it or not. I feel sad that P is gonna leave my life for ever. i feel noatLgic for our good times together. I want the things to be just like before…

    Onlh a few things made me smile today, but it feels likes it’s not enough to erase all the bad things. I had lunch with 2 female coworker. I don’t usually make friend easily with girls so it feels good when it happens. I thought of E with a warm feeling, hoping that he liked my yesterday’s message and that he will open up to me very soon. I am reconciled with the collegue I had a fight about P last week. That’s it. Not enough to made this day a beautiful one.

    Sorry for spaming the blog with my negatuve thoughts. I kjust had to say it to someone and peoe around me don’t really want to hear about it…

    At least I’m feeling something and I am learning to express my feelings.

    I am sad. And I want E to be here.

  96.  #96Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Also my Mom seemed to have little faith in my ability to handle things and would say things like “I don’t think you can handle that”…etc…when in fact I CAN HANDLE it…its ACTUALLY HERSELF she is talking about …
    but she’d do a lot of hand wringing and tell me I cannot do something, but then not offer any help or advice beyond informing me I cannot handle this or that….and if I let her almost pull me into a spiral of self doubt.
    Pretty f*$ked up.

  97.  #97Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    65 hmm interesting thought FW..

    I find that if I am able to put the pieces together why I am a certain way or make sense of it, it may sound victimey, but when I sort of understand things better and how history unfolded and was not a nurturing environemnt for me….. I feel more compassionate toward myself first of all, then I can extend that compassion to others in my family well.

  98.  #98Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Darn. TH is in the office today and I thought he’d be working offsite till Thursday.

    But despite that my vibe is UP!!! I just walked past a coffee shop and almost every guy in there was checking me out! I checked when I got back to work to make sure my dress wasn’t tucked into my undies and I am happy to say that no, I was not embarrassing myself! Haha!

    Today I’m wearing a cute little dress that TH used to love (he once suggested that I should wear that dress to any future interviews!). It’s pink and black and purple and it’s kind of short – but not skanky short. It’s also low cut so the little bit of cleavage I have (yay for push up bras!) is very much enhanced. And to top that off I’m wearing 4 inch heels.

    So yeah I feel hot and kind of hyper today which could partly be attributed to the new fat loss supplements I just received from the US this morning! Wooo!

    Date with S is tonight but I’ll be going home early. I’m looking forward to it but also not. Weird…

  99.  #99Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    49 Dominique 🙂
    I think Tinque is cute too but both names are nice
    I feel the word LOVE is a lil overused as well…
    I find myself less inclined to use it at this stage in life…I feel actually kind of uncomfortable saying it, like it sounds trite. I used to use it all the time with my exes and exe’s daughter and my own parents and sister etc…now I almost cringe when my parents say it of my sis or anyone else…it bugs me. I don’t like that I have that reaction, but it’s not good.

    I hope its a predictor that I’m about to have a

    I never thought I’d be this way. I don’t want to be jaded. 🙁

  100.  #100Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:27 pm


  101.  #101Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    He rarely comes over to my side of the floor but today he chose to go see some people in my team. I had someone with me and didn’t even notice till he was leaving.

    I noticed his FB status last night was “:( sigh”.

    I’m not sure if he realizes I can see his status updates but it’s obvious he’s not a happy boy.

    We all know of course that he’s free to contact me cos I won’t contact him. So for now I shall follow FW’s advice and put him in a little corner of my heart until he’s ready to leave altogether or to fight for more space.

    Sending him loving vibes! xxx

  102.  #102~ Violet ~ on November 28, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    I had a one time deal with this man who I’d been going back and forth with.

    He kept on and on about not reading into things, that he was too old for me, for me to stay away because of him being a jerk.

    I wasn’t after him to get married. All I wanted was to get out of these four walls that surrounded me and have a good time.

    It was all about living in the moment, not thinking every iota thing about ‘what if this, and what if that’

    So, I spent one night and that was that. We’re still friends as far as I’m concerned. That was the main concern for both of us.

    I just don’t find myself wanting to have an ongoing relationship of this nature. We got together, we had a good time, and now it’s over. It’s time to realize it for what it was and move on.

    I don’t know about him, but that’s what I’m doing. I wrote one Email to him. I didn’t need or want a reply and I said that.

    Hopefully, he’ll start to see the writing on the wall and let things end on a friendly note.

    ~ Violet ~

  103.  #103Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Another thing that makes me feel a little better…

    My coworker is getting married next summer. I met his fiancée for the first time at our office Christmas last Friday. She was pretty but a little chubby. He was telling me today that Saturday she was shopping for her wedding dress. She’s been trying to find one for the last 2 months. Saturday she came back crying that she doesn’t look good in any of the dresses because she is fat and bla bla bla. And she said “All these dresses are made for girls like Lizka. She would fit in any of them!”.

    I feel sad for the poor girl. But this is something good to hear, that someone envy you. Maybe I’m alone for now, and she’s the one getting married, but at least I have a nice and tight body! Small comforting…

    Sorry if that sounds mean to read, but it’s one of the only thing of my day that made me smile today… It was a nice compliment.

  104.  #104Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Wondering why FirstCD has poof? Maybe is is not leaning foward to see if I am interested? Is that a possible thing?

    I want to text him something but I don’t know what, and I don’t want him to talk to me if he’s not interested. And i don’t want to HEAR that he is not into me..

    Meh whatever…

  105.  #105Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    81 @ Mel
    kinda exciting about sexy sarcastic
    I always feel a sense of power when they “reappear”
    What are you going to do?
    I feel muchas curious

  106.  #106Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Lizka I’d forget about him. Sometimes they poof because they just don’t think you’re compatible. Others might poof due to their own insecurities. Either way, they’ve removed themselves from your rotation because they’re not right for you. That’s how I see it anyway! And I’d rather they poofed early on than after several years too!

    Also, you probably know yourself that you’re just not attracted to some guys despite how in to you they are. I suppose it works the same way for them.

  107.  #107Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    I feel tired and cold and sick. I feel tense in my shoulders. It’s only 9 pm but I think I’m gonna go sleep and have a nice 9.30 hours of sleep. That would feel great to be in shape tomorrow!

    I will go sleep and think of E. I will think of the time I brought him at my cousin’s wedding and he told me he was happy to meet my family and that he was feeling comfortable there. I thibk tgat’s a good sign. Maybe he’s the one after all…

    Ahhhh I’m already feeling better…

  108.  #108Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    @ Ella
    It’s easy for me to say, but I learned recently that it serves me no good to compare myself to others. I still do it all the time and catch myself and remind myself not to do it.
    I think you are doing great, and you have your own unique, caring special brand of Zumba like NO OTHER…even though there are others in your area, only your classes are taught by ELLA!!!!


  109.  #109Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    femmystique, susan femininewoman and tiffany…thank you for your replies and sharing with me about you…
    I feel heard and cared for and listened to and I feel teary with thoughts of Sirens supporting me…awww I feel all mushy toward all of you right now

  110.  #110Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Thank you BW. Actually I am not really sad that he dissapeared, I was not really into him, he had a kid and was smaller than me and kind of skinny, and he has a kid wich sounds weird for a girl my age.

    I just can’t help myself wondering what I did bad and it makes me feel a little insecure about my decision to start to circular date…

  111.  #111Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Oups I said that he had a kid 2 times. I guess it was really bothering me, lol

  112.  #112Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    I have a bit of a NV situation happening here… I’m no supermodel (if only!) but I look ok and I get plenty of attention. And that’s the problem…

    What if all guys want from me is sex???

    That just feels icky! I am so much more than that!

    But my experience with TH is making me feel less than. Like I didn’t measure up in the personality department. 🙁

    How could he NOT like me that way?? Am I really that bad??

    I’m smart, I’m funny and I like to enjoy life. So what’s not to like??

    Or maybe it’s like what I said to Lizka – sometimes they realise I’m just not for them – just like I think ex coworker or D aren’t for me…. :-/

  113.  #113Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    73 @ faith
    I heard that it takes about half the time you’re together with someone to get over them…not sure if it’s entirely true…but I’ve felt in my own experience it’s kinda been accurate..I think you can definitely get over them faster, but it was something I heard once and found it intriguing…

    But you were with him for two years, you ahve seven months behind you, I bet in the next four or five months you’ll feel alot different (better) because you’ve created a new reality without him in it…it’s for you, for FAITH, (I love your name)

  114.  #114Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    112 BW I’ve had the same thoughts about myself.
    Truth is that some men, yes that is all they want. But not all and probably not most. Like Rori says they are desperate for connection to our hearts…women’s hearts…unless they are toxic.
    If a man made you feel that you are lacking in personality I would feel wary of giving him any more energy.
    I think you have a LOVELY personality and I only know you on the internet! In person I bet you’re amazing!!! I know you are!! 😀

  115.  #115Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    98 woo woo!! Sounds lovely BW I think you’re hot just reading that! xoxo

  116.  #116Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    BW I don’t understand that either. I don’t understand why some guys are there but not looking for more even if we’re beautiful and smart and everything. I’ve known E for Almost 5 years. Everytime I break up with a boyfriend, he’s there for me. Not only for sex, but also for romance and friendship. He knows I like him a lot and that I am dreaming of being more than that with him. But he’s not moving. I guess he’s comfortable there? Just easy?

    Yesterday he kind of told me that he would always be somewhere around me, but did not confirmed if he has any more serious plans for us in the future. I don’t get it. Why bother beeing there for me but staying open, for better opportunities??

  117.  #117Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Wouhou! This conversation made me forget a little abojt my awfull day and i don’t feel as sad as earlier! I LOOOVE this blog. When I feel sad, there’s only one person in the world who can make me feel better because she knows how to listen and gives advices that feels hopeful. It’s my beat friend. You Sirens are the first people I meet in my whole life who makes me feel lime that too! That’s big!!


  118.  #118Lizka on November 28, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    On these goOd thoughts, I’m gonna go sleep and think of E.

    Gooooooood night!


  119.  #119Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    116 Lizka
    I had a guy like that for many years…he ended up moving away to anther state with another woman and I think they got married…anwyay I lost my “in between” guy and I still miss him…

    for a while I wanted more with him, but realized he would always be just in that in between role for me…I used to call him my “band aid”…we had soo much fun together!! He was ALWAYS there for me to cry on his shoulder, and so caring and sexy, for almost ten years! I had kinda hoped/dreamed we’d be together…but never materialized..

  120.  #120faith on November 28, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    RE: 113 EMERSON:

    Thank you your message was great…. and you’re right that does sound intriguing.. I really hope for the best in the next couple of months because as of now all i can think about is him.
    i also sometimes feel worthless and very negative towards myself because i just tell myself, “I wasn’t even worth a phone call to him.. He couldn’t even take the time see how i am doing after our break-up”
    but whatever.. i just have to move on.. if a man really wants to be with you he will show you .. right??

  121.  #121Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    120 faith
    Yes that is true if a man wants to be with us, he will show us…

    And your worth/value is not defined by him.

    You are worth so much more, just because you are YOU and God/creator made you the way you are. You are special.

    Earlier in this post I think there was discussion about not trying to “get over” a guy but putting them in a tiny box in a corner of your heart…so the big part of your heart will be open for new LOVE…and it WILL come to you if you open it…

    I truly believe that and talking to myself a lil bit here too…I feel piney over my ex, RecycledCD and have had a bit of trouble “getting over” him myself…but working on opening my heart nonetheless..


  122.  #122luzydel on November 28, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    I am seeing that online dating is full of emotional leeches. I feel drained by just reading their emails ugh!
    I am not here to rescue the world, nor men who play the victim or act as if I have to save them from themselves. I tend to be a magnet for this type, so frustrating. 🙁

  123.  #123Mel on November 28, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Hey Emerson!

    Yeah, I definitely feel curious too. Not sure what I’ll do. There’s not been an actual plan/date proposed, so I won’t really worry about it till then.

    But I have been feeling a little pensive about it. Confused, surprised, annoyed, a tiny bit happy, mostly indifferent. It’s so true that by the time we heal ourselves, we just end up losing interest. I wonder if he’s got more to teach me… But maybe it’s just that he’s to teach me to feel uber confident in saying ‘no,’ you are not for me. Not sure… Do I want to be open? I don’t HAVE to open my door to just anyone. It’s my choice… I’ll just see how things feel, I guess. Right now I’m leaning toward ‘no thanks.’

  124.  #124Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    114 Emerson – Awwww you’re so lovely!! 🙂

    I really love that I can come here and just let it all out. It feels like an outlet for me – something I don’t have otherwise.

    My closest friend is kind of over hearing about my roller coaster ride although just asked me how Mr Happy Pants was. Of course I had to tell her I’ve got no idea cos he’s not talking to me. :-/

    Luv to you all! xxx

  125.  #125Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    FW earlier you mentioned that we as women “create” attraction.

    I’ve been thinking about it and I’m not sure I understand it or understand how to do it.

    hmm I feel confuzzled and incapable of creating it…and a lil hopeless that I don’t ‘get it’…i feel fearful that I won’t be able to create it. 🙄

  126.  #126Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    125 I mean create it for myself if the guy is attracted to me, andhe’s a good guy but I am the one not attracted, I’m not sure I know how to create attraction from there….ack I feel incapable

  127.  #127Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    115 Emerson – aww thanks! 🙂

    I certainly FEEL hot today and I suppose it’s showing in my vibe…! 😉

  128.  #128Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    116: Lizka – maybe he’s just scared? I’m listening to modern siren and the way Rori puts it from the male perspective, offering a commitment to a woman is kind of scary for a guy.

    That’s why she suggests CDing because it inspires him to claim what he wants before some other guy snatches her up!

  129.  #129Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    126 Emerson – I think attraction just happens as you get to know them more intimately.

    I was definitely NOT attracted to TH in any way when we first met. I felt nothing for him at all and considered him somewhat unattractive.

    But now, I’m madly in love with that silly, clueless man who really doesn’t deserve me!

    Funny how that happens… 🙂

  130.  #130Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    129 BW yeah it’s happened to me too…
    I feel like I don’t want to “try to hard”…it’s either there or it’s not.

    Time will tell. I’ve had it the other way too..when I thought I was attracted (drunk) when meeting a guy…LOL and later was like naaahh…even though he was a good guy and nice looking, I was not attracted after all. Something about the smell of the sounds weird..he did not smell BAD at all it was just not matching up with my chemistry, literally.

    I’ve smelled other men who I’m attracted to when they are sweaty and dirty and if we have chemistry I still think they are amazing…LOL chemistry is weird!

  131.  #131Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Yep it’s weird alright! TH can be a bit stinky at times but it doesn’t turn me off at all. Ex hubby on the other hand was eeewwww!

  132.  #132faith on November 28, 2011 at 7:33 pm


    very sweet message Emerson!! thank you much!!
    you are super right.. God created each and everyone of us and we are all special!! i know i will always love this man.. yes we had our ups and downs.. but he was everything to me…. I don’t know if i should say this.. but i don’t think i will ever lose my hopes in us one day maybe getting back together..
    I know i need to move on with my life and not keep my hopes up.. but its just something i feel.. i love and miss him so much even after 7months after our break up.
    Thank you again for your words:)

  133.  #133Susan on November 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    RE: 130: Emerson says:

    “Something about the smell of the sounds weird..he did not smell BAD at all it was just not matching up with my chemistry, literally.

    I’ve smelled other men who I’m attracted to when they are sweaty and dirty and if we have chemistry I still think they are amazing…LOL chemistry is weird!”

    I am nodding my head as I read this. My attraction to men relies heavily on scent. It has always been that way. Sweet Man smells AMAZING to me.

  134.  #134LILI 41 on November 28, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    “Now’s the time to say what we want, practice warmth and love instead of fear and suspicion – and trust ourselves to leave when we’re endangering our well being.”

    That last sentence of today’s post is really sticking to me. I copied it on a bright coloured post-it in the office and stuck it in my purse.

    D practically begged me to give him another chance and start from scratch over a week ago.

    I got p’d at him from not getting any news from him on Thursday and Friday. As usual I had to be all accusing…Eventhough I slipped and didn’t communicate my anger in a FM, his whole attitude and vibe has changed. He came over a couple of hours later saying that he’ll make it up to me w a massage.

    I said in a calm tone: “I’m sorry for giving you sh*t. I just feel angry when I’m left hanging while I was promised a call to let me know”

    He came over and I physically leaned back. He leaned in to grab me in his arms and held on to me for the rest of the evening.
    Something he hasn’t done in almost a year!

    He stayed overnight, and this thing he used to have came back too after a year’s absence…this thing about even sleeping on his side of the bed, he has to have a hand touching me until he falls asleep.
    Hadn’t had that in I don’t remember how long!

    He came back Saturday, again I physically leaned back…And he did it again! Wow!
    He leaned in and pulled me close into his arms and he put my head on his shoulder.
    He asked for my foot, he took my sock off and just wanted to hold my foot in his hand.
    That, he never did!

    He even ran out to get the dessert I felt like having.

    I texted him while he was at work on Sunday. He works on machines, so he doesn’t have access to a phone alot of the time. I texted him as he often calls me from his cell during breaks. I just wrote “call me”.
    He doesn’t always call me from work and my mom was insisting on knowing if he was coming for Xmas or not (it’s a 7 hour drive away).
    He called me from his work phone at my bedtime to say goodnight. He hadn’t even seen my text request to call, and he called all on his own!
    He called again tonight at my bedtime to say goodnight!
    He used to not have time when he had his son.
    He hasn’t done that in a year! and he did it 2 nights in a row even tonight while he has his son.

    Throughout all our breaks, my angry fits, my pushing him away during the last 2 years…this is the 1st time he’s ever said “I really want to start over from scratch”. And this is the 1st time he’s stepped up so much, especially in the affection area without me even asking or even hinting.

    I’m enjoying this…w help from this last sentence in Rori’s post today.

    I have been mistrusting and suspicious of men from birth!
    Everyone who knew me as a baby says that it was crazy how I would have a screaming crying fit everytime a man would take me in his arms.
    As I grew up, I would always back away when a man would approach me.
    I never knew why, and I didn’t even remember being that way.
    Everyone who saw me as a baby and growing up keep telling me.
    I think I inherited it while my mom was pregnant w me. I heard her say once that she was molested by a man in her 1st years of marriage…By the look at me and my terror of men from birth, I’m guessing it happened while she was pregnant w me.
    I was never molested, but my mom was when she was young and that time in the beginning of her marriage (not by my dad, he’s the gentlest man ever).
    No doubts in case your wondering, I’m my dad’s spitting image, nose, eyes, lips, chin, hair, are all identical to my dad’s.

  135.  #135LILI 41 on November 28, 2011 at 7:56 pm


    D is the only man I’ve ever known who smells soooo good when sweaty.
    He’s the 1st man that I haven’t been disdained about the smell of his armpits.
    and his feet don’t smell even when he takes off his work boots after a days work.

  136.  #136LILI 41 on November 28, 2011 at 8:04 pm


    We have a saying here in French Canada when we really don’t like someone: “I can’t smell that person.”
    Right Lizka and Mel?
    “Je ne peux pas le sentir.”

    I haven’t been able to say that in a very very long time. I have been feeling more and more compassionate towards all people for the past few years, I find that expression too harsh now.

  137.  #137LILI 41 on November 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Emerson: “attracted (drunk)” lololol 😀
    Been there, done that.

  138.  #138LILI 41 on November 28, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Glad to read you’re doing great hot siren BW!

  139.  #139Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Not feeling very sireny right now but I’m ok. I’ve postponed my date with S till next week. I felt bad about going out on my daughter’s second last night at home until Christmas and I have a heap to do at home.

    I just felt overwhelmed.

    I’m also thinking I should wait till after TH is out of my life for at least a month before I start dating properly too – I want to make sure he’s gone for good and I would feel bad for stringing some guy along.

    I feel confused!!

  140.  #140RiverGirl on November 28, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “I haven’t been able to say that in a very very long time. I have been feeling more and more compassionate towards all people for the past few years, I find that expression too harsh now.”

    Lili, that felt so lovely to read. I am finding that too, the more I understand and love myself, the more compassion and acceptance I feel for others. It’s one of the best things about “growing up”.

  141.  #141Femininewoman on November 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Ella it was one of the monhtly interviews with relationship experts that gets shipped out on cds.

  142.  #142RiverGirl on November 28, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    If you aren’t “exclusive” with TH anymore, I can’t see how anyone would be being strung along by you going on a few dates….Could be fun?!

    For me, to be waiting to see if a man still wanted me, or if he was done with me would feel awful. You can still have your heart open to him while you see who else is out there to take care of your heart. You don’t have to close the door on TH or any other guy unless YOU want to.

  143.  #143Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    RG well here’s the thing. I’m not sure where things are at right now after our fight on the weekend and the fact that he’s not talked to me since the night before last.

    But I do know he’s processing what’s happened based on some FB posts and I know he’s not happy that I’m not around.

    I’m not really “waiting” for him but I do need time to “grieve” all of the hopes and dreams I had for us before I’m happy to move on.

    Also I’ve had zero “me” time since my marriage ended. So that’s over 10 years since I’ve had any time on my own. I think I need at least a month or two of me time…

  144.  #144Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    137 LILI

    136 that sounds amusing and funny…”I can’t smell that person” hahaha I kinda like it…

  145.  #145Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    38 yay Jilly! fun! Thanks for sharing that….it’s good to know…I will keep in mind to be open when online…

  146.  #146Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    136 awww…it doesn’t sound that harsh to me but I am out of context and don’t speak french and not from Canada…so ?? hee hee to me it sounds funny!

    I know what you mean though..I think I’m a nicer person now than I used to be. I’m much more compassionate for people’s circumstances.

    Although, I have changed in the sense that I really have little patience/interest in making small talk with people I don’t know…I mean, I REALLY really don’t care, I”m not invested at all. I used to be super social and talk to everyone! Now if I am at a party or something…I have to be drunk to listen.

    Seriously. I really want to run and it puts me to sleep…..I hope its just a passing phase. I feel bad about it. 🙁

  147.  #147Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    143 BW poo poo FB!!!!

  148.  #148lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Ok, what is it…….

    There is the panther – yes, I can tame him; though I do fear him. There is the polar bear, the panther bear, the black bear, the brown bear – & though I cannot tame him; yet I can appease him. There are the sharks & the whales – no, I cannot satiate them; I am small. There are the owls & the eagles & the hawks & the albatross – I can fascinate them; but am I prey? There must be something terribly wrong…

    Good little lady, you’re driving me cr8zy – why don’t you swing my way…

    That rocks me to sleep, rocks me to sleep, rocks me to sleep, rocks me to sleep…

  149.  #149lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    by *panther* bear, I mean *panda* bear – duh :/

  150.  #150lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I feel the urge to hoard urns of cash – but I won’t – I spill it right back into the flow – like life

    I’m listening to your bxllshxt verses – you think you’re touching me? Well, let me tell you, baby – you’re not touching me.

  151.  #151lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    & yes, like yesterday, like tomorrow, i do love you today, right now, this second & next second & last second & no you can’t stop me from loving you & no, you can’t ask me to love you closer.

  152.  #152Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    lk 🙂

  153.  #153lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    OH HUMANS – yes, I do love you! Yes! I do! It’s magnificent & terrifying but there you are, & here I am on my knee, presenting you with my single diamond – the stony fruit of my labors… & will you accept? I’m laughing now… what suitor does not suspect the dark, false heart of the well-beloved?

  154.  #154lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    living in a material world * * & I am a material girl * *

    ah! ah ah ah ah

    boys may come & boys may come & that’s alright with me – experience has made me rich & now they’re after me !

  155.  #155lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    went for a swim today & am feeling truly fantastic – having flashback scenes to my day today

    … please give up this space to something worthy – of course, we are not worthy – to rest our bowls………

    humans, humans, humans – i do love you.

  156.  #156Orna Walters on November 28, 2011 at 9:44 pm


    Breathing as an act of Self-Love – a perfect place to begin.

    We are all raised by imperfect people, who inevitably fail us to some degree – its the “story” we create about what that means about us that stands in our way, and veils our heart from receiving the love we desire.

    The somewhat twisted idea of “love” that you share in post #61 – is what Matthew and I call “Familiar.” We all choose what is familiar over what we desire and this is where it gets tricky… because familiar may not equal love at all.

    I grew up in a home with a lot of abuse, so in my 20s I chose a man who abused me. It was familiar. It was not “love” – certainly not the love that my soul desired.

    The fact remains that we do not stumble into doing “love” differently by accident. Making the shift to be able to create what we desire takes dedication and commitment.

    You’re on the right track. Breathe. Let the oxygen nourish you and imagine it sending love to every cell of your being. An act of self-love can be that simple.

    It gets complicating when we’re in relationship…because, for example, if our story includes being abandoned = familiar, we have to work at not abandoning ourselves.

    Self-Love means YOU come first. So if your needs are not being met – MOVE ON!

    Love is limitless and when we decide we will not accept crumbs (as Rori says), we are available to receive the whole enchilada from a man who is able to deliver it.

    Love and Abundance,

    P.S. Happy that you enjoy our Love Notes Weekly .com

  157.  #157lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    i’m going to listen to some astronautalis & have a cigarette & wonder what all the other humans are up to at this exact moment… I’m picturing a lot sleeping, some banging, more brushing their teeth or watching t.v. or txtng or making a snack or going to the bathroom or scratching an itch or looking for something or trying to straighten a mess… a lot, i assume, are bent over somewhere heavy, something heavy, feeling heavy… yes, i do feel that…. well, goodnight, moon, etc. & goodnight, humans everywhere

  158.  #158lk on November 28, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    & btw dxmn i look cute in my m.c. hammer pants & my gold holiday mock turtleneck sweater with shoulder pads. rachel zoe says 80s full-force & i am depending on it… BALLERRRRRRR #goodwill #fauxhautecouture

  159.  #159tenny on November 28, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    insomnia prose


    (a wrenching rant by a crying tenny)

    Feeling free CDing.
    Feeling lonely profiling.
    Where’s my channeling list?
    I haven’t had s*x since spring.
    I feel like a tiger in a candy bar cage.
    I feel desperate across the table from these wanting men. Gorgeous men, I bet CD Assertive he can kiss nice … I feel like trying – lean back and let him in.


    Feeling deep regret – in the center of my chest like I can’t breathe, and I hate feeling overwhelmed and weak like this. I want to run until I fall or smash into something hard, but I stop the thought because I hate feeling pain. So I sit and cry instead because I feel too much.

    I love my loneliness and my weakness. I hate the tears I see in the mirror. Get your act together woman, stop crying.

    Stop telling me what to do mirror lady… go play with your eyeshadow or count your lipstick – I’m busy feeling over here!

    But I’m a fake. I’m not strong, I’m nothing but a bunch of pulling digging feeling in the center of my chest and I can’t breathe.

    I need a man!! I have 4, but I don’t want those strangers. I don’t have a man to hold me or talk to like I used to, so I’m feeling lonely.

    I lost the one man I liked. Never made it to love. I’m a loser. I loved holding him close and feeling his warm skin on my face.

    Get lost NV before I cuff you to the floor.

    Idiot girl – what you feel now? The man you had left me. I hate your feeling all the damn time. Let me call him. Let me email him, just one text please. why is he with that woman??? where the hell did she come from. when did this happen. I feel dizzy.

    I hate feeling left. I hate feeling confused. I love my feelings. I love me, idiot girl – you’re gonna be okay. Rori says so every day over and over again.

    I feel foolish for feeling these things
    – like the brunt of a mean boy’s joke on the playground once the gum is stuck in my braid.

    But I love all my foolish feelings!
    I’m not a fake, I’m the real thing and I love all of my mixed up ugly feelings.

    be still . . .
    breathe . . .

    I feel light like the steam rising from my tea cup in the morning cold.

    Opening my crying eyes.

    Today I feel happy, strong and foolish melting together – like neaopolitan ice cream in a hot bowl.

    Today I’ve made some emotional progress – HEALING HEALING HEALING. That assertive man is six feet four inches of hot therapy (oh my). Hot topic with chocolate on the side! But I don’t feel him in my heart.

    Yes, it’s occupied. My ex- Mr. Invisible. My toxic man. That sexy, coy, chiseled, charming, handsome thumping whole in the center of my chest that makes me feel I cannot breathe for a minute or two and yet turns words into poetry, sound into music, heat into flames, my legs to rubber, and deep breaths into life.

    I forgive myself for not forgiving him. I forgive myself for hating and hurting. I feel grateful I can feel my heart again. I feel weary that I could not feel for so long.

    I still feel anger and humiliation. I accept my feelings of anger and humiliation. I accept you feelings, I won’t ignore you any further.

    I FEEL ANGRY!!! I don’t want to see Mr. Invisible, or talk to him and I loathe thinking about him. I feel heavy like a ceramic vase falling off a tall shelf onto a delicate dish. I feel shattered.

    I feel relieved to feel these awful feelings inside my head. – Relieved feels like mist rising from the sauna all over my dry skin. I feel like crying but the tears or dry like the sand between the blades of grass in the baha.

    VISIONING – I’m sitting in the sandbox wearing my favorite yellow flower dress with the matching apron. Mr. Invisible kisses me and gets out of the sand “I’ll be back – I care for you.” I sat there a long long time. Writing poetry and finding reasons to call out to Mr. Invisible. Alone. cold. stupid foolish smart girl. ****How long did I sit there. How could I stand being alone. CD smoothy wants to grind you down but you just sit there. Hear that? They are laughing at you sitting there foolish while Mr. Invisible’s romping in another box!! Still I sit – frozen in pain.
    ****My alpha female voice – my sweet silly feminine heart, I’ve come to rescue you – grab my hand and let’s opted out of this toxic situation – let’s run, run, run girl! Get out of the dirt bag’s emotional play pen and run away from here with me. My heart steps out of the sandbox and just stands there. Alpha female is pulling her – LET’S GO BEFORE HE COMES BACK. But my heart won’t move, she wants to stop doing, stand still, tree trunk and unzip. wait/invite/breathe/date – BUT THIS HURTS. *****
    Hush, be still and heal … HEAL baby Heal. Virginia’s meditation. Soothing moments of healing.

    Feeling coming up again.
    I feel confused again. I feel my confusion like a throbbing headache while on a hot beach with no shade. I feel like passing out, but instead I drop down to my knees and just feel.

    Even though I don’t want to see or speak to him – I feel stronger – want to grow and feel grown Like mama putting on perfume in the mirror for a night out on the town as I sit in my jammies wishing I was grown enough to wear gloves that match my handbag and shoes.

    And how have I attained this relieving feeling?
    I embraced my heart. And I embraced Mr. Invisible in my heart and I let him go. I embraced the loneliness and HURT (oopps, did I say that?!)

    I accepted that I CAN give him a chance if he earnestly wants me. I will feel foolish. I feel it doesn’t matter what my friends and family think about him, me or us. (whispers – damn, she can certainly do better than that creep).

    This siren just raised her level of difficulty to incredibly super high,

    Raised it to I won’t speak to you unless it’s clear you earnestly want me
    and want another chance to catch.

    Raised my level of difficulty to stepping back far far away, then standing still, poised to turn my back and opt out – no returns/no exchange.

    Mr. Invisible has to appear hard and I have to feel in my soul just beneath my left breast that he is sorry and earnestly and honestly wants me. Nothing less siren. I will not fall into the same toxic pattern – this is his only chance – anything less and I’m opting out.

    OH MAN IT FEELS GOOD TO GET THAT OFF MY CHEST like bubbles from the bath sticking to me like a bubble-suit as I stand up out of the tub.

    I’m going to sleep now. I’ll script for him in the afternoon as I prepare for my next date.

  160.  #160Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    OMG Sirens…
    I’m just practicing Rori’s tools online corresponding with this man online…
    He initiated contact and I don’t even have a picture posted!!
    We have emailed back and forth so I sent him my pic…and I’m just letting myself be poetic, free, flowy, feelingy, soft, juicy in my responses……and he’s just melting!! OMG…it’s so cute and fun…I feel hopeful and inspired.
    Thank you Rori for telling me it is OK TO BE A WOMAN….and unzip my heart…
    It’s all practice, although this guy is certainly a cutie, and sooo my type…latin and international! hee hee…

  161.  #161lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    In Heaven…. everything is fine

    In Heaven…

    Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum


    looking at the moon

    let it hollow me

    someone else’s shoes

    step by step

    found myself in someone else’s shoes

    chase the grasses,,,
    punch the mattress…
    today’s the day they catch us…

    wom wom wom


    wom wom wom

    twisted fingers… i could do with another drink

    oooooh oooooh

    dxmn i’m feeling all kinds of universally sxxxy lol

  162.  #162Esteemed on November 28, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    April Rose,

    RE: #85 – Thank you for the encouragement! Tonight I had a moment of loneliness when he called. But I didn’t pick up the phone. Yes, I have ended it because he is not good for me. In some ways he is, but he is so toxic that we keep having this sick cycle. He pressures me to do something I don’t want to do, that I already told him no on. I say no. He continues to pressure me. Finally when he sees the answer is still no, he goes ballistic on me. I get angry. He says he’s going to end the friendship. He never does. But this cycle goes around and around. And finally this time I said, “YOU ended it – remember that!” Then I didn’t take any more calls. It’s been 5 days now.

    Does anyone know how to block a number? I would prefer to not change my whole number, but just to block one. And I need to do it soon, because I feel myself slipping back into “Poor K” mode, where I feel bad for him and let him back in my life because I’m all he’s got. But I gotta remind myself that the reason he doesn’t have a lot of other friends is because he is toxic.

    I haven’t heard from R since Friday. I miss him, as always. I hope he comes an hour and visits me at my new home soon. Things are really going well between us. It is strictly at a friendship level, but I feel his warmth, and he keeps coming back in my direction after 2 full years of not dating. It is the best thing happening in my life right now.

    December 24th will mark 3 years since we started dating. I am going to try not to get my hopes up, but it would feel nice if he made a significant move in my direction on that day. I feel kinda hopeful cuz on Thanksgiving, he spent about 3 hours both talking and texting with me! It sure made my day! I am so in love with him!

    The toxicity I saw in him when we dated two years ago is largely gone. He is moving strongly in the direction of healing and health, and I see the results! He has become an emotionally strong, compassionate man!

  163.  #163lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    your lipstick is hazy your eyes are all lazy
    bingbingbing wom wom bing bing

    speakers crackling

  164.  #164Esteemed on November 28, 2011 at 11:02 pm


    RE: #160 – Way to go! I feel happy for you!

  165.  #165lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    good little lady you’re driving me cr8zy

    why don’t you swing my way

    there must be something terribly wrong with me

    sometimes i feel like i haven’t learned anything

  166.  #166Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    Thank you Esteemed!
    It feels nice to read your words….


    I have been praying/visualizing/manifesting for things to turn
    around for me…although I’m not focused on one particular man…I need to be able to be willing to be surprised as Rori calls it, and remain a warm invitation.

    I can’t do that while feeling all hung up on Recycled. So I’m turning my attention away from his hemisphere…and floating along in my sirenness for others to appreciate…

    I pray that Recycled will become unattractive to me to the point of no return…as my toxicEx is to me now. there is no temptation because there is no draw….no compelling emotional heart that is pulling me, none at all with toxicEx…

    lk I love reading what you write…it’s so cute and inspiring…

    love when you talk to yourself aww baby lk 🙂
    I kinda copied you…I do that to myself now…aww baby Emerson it’s ok…you can cry…now lets have some tea etc…hee hee I love it

  167.  #167English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 11:21 pm


    I have always attracted to aggression and have done things to bring it out in men. It is as if I have always wanted to see their anger and have unconsciously invited rage towards me.


    Wow I could have written this myself if I had only thought about it, this is very true of me too, thank you so much for sharing. xxx

  168.  #168lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    ok just sent ht & sqw muzik in response to requests – never want to go to work again – understand that i will go tomorrow – ok, i’m a little excited about the things to-do……… I DO WANT a fantastically handsome man to lend some romance to my life… yum! but, yes, that man is so fantastic… & in my dreams he helps me scale staircase after staircase after staircase after staircase after staircase after staircase…. : ) yes, & thank you ; )

  169.  #169English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    #20 Esteemed

    I know you are not in a great financial position at the moment, but can’t you just buy a new sim card and only give out your new number to people you want to have it? I don’t think they are very expensive.

  170.  #170Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    159 ((((tenny!!!!!))))
    That is soo beautiful…I feel teary reading it,
    my heart was so touched to read what you said…and I know the loneliness feeling 🙁
    my sister siren…it’s only temporary though and won’t last forever!!!! Mucho love and hugs being sent your way…xoxo

  171.  #171lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    I’m good at what I do

    falling in & out of touch with you

    hope for your sake you’re hearing this song in a bar

  172.  #172Butterfly wings on November 28, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    TH just texted me asking where I am. I’m almost home and must have just finished work. He wants to talk.

  173.  #173Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    hi EW!! You are moving to London??
    LOVE that town..people are so friendly!
    And oh the cuties in the bars after work in their suits…that’s what I recall from my visits there.
    hee hee..cute Brit men with their lil accents yum!!

  174.  #174Esteemed on November 28, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    English Woman,

    RE: #169 – I could change my number, but even if it were free, I don’t want the hassle of notifying everyone of my new number. I’m really needing some stability in my life, not more disruption. Thanks, tho.

  175.  #175English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Wow reading all this stuff on here about mothers makes me feel sooo connected to you Sirens, my mother is/was just the same, abusive physically and verbally and my dad was kind of a nice guy, pretty passive but not demonstrative at all, in fact I cannot remember one time in my childhood when I felt loved just tolerated, though not always that even. Children should be seen not heard.

    Is that we on here are over-functioners and people pleasers? Trying to get the love we didn’t get as children?

    I did this 4 day seminar/retreat once and at the beginning you had to write on a note what you most wanted to get out of it, and I wrote that I wanted to love myself as much as I was able to love another person and to have that happy “in love” feeling for myself.

    But in the words of U2:

    I still haven’t found what I’m looking for……..

  176.  #176Emerson on November 28, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    41 FW and 167 EW


    I have always attracted to aggression and have done things to bring it out in men. It is as if I have always wanted to see their anger and have unconsciously invited rage towards me.

    I’ve been pondering this….
    I can identify with this aswell.

    Perhaps I feel that when they are mad, it shows they care…albeit very’s a form of EMOTION that is igniting, even though it scares me, it kinda does not scare me one bit…
    all at the same time..,

  177.  #177lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    i love the way dreamerlk blends the lovers into 1 man with dark, deep, shining hair – his sons have bottomless brown eyes – tiny frames – large heads – soft hair – olive skin – massive competitive energies – those men – they chase me! oh, but I can choose from among them & the others to find the father of my children: gentle, quiet, kind souls – full of curiousity – they ask me questions over & over – I’m like, shut up already, tiny humans; do you think any man has those answers?? – i’m smiling – i’m turned on by this tall man still by my side, helping me in the kitchen – turning the music up – oh, yes & the sxx of course… that’s really fantastic & amazing & the human man who stands with me – who hears me – who gives me time & space & resources & protection – oh, men – thank you!

  178.  #178lk on November 28, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    @BW 172

    I don’t know you as well as others & certainly am not as familiar with context… But if it were me, I would absolutely never respond to his junky messages. I’d only respond to in-person & on-the-phone messages. txts would be so invisible to me from him at this point. also, I’d only respond to messages that were like, “i’m an idiot. i seriously worship you & only you & will do anything to prove it.” i have no idea if that’s helpful

    “today’s the day amazing things happen….

    “around it’s feet…

    “running so fast, it gets left behind

    “teeth bared…twisted noses…. i could do with another drink…

    “nothing more heartbreaking now

    “let the grass grow up around it’s feet”

  179.  #179English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    #82 LG

    Yes it triggered me too in the newspaper article I read, like if she had done this or that he wouldn’t have cheated on her.

    Men do what they want to do.

    Isn’t that what we hear on this blog all the time.

  180.  #180English Woman on November 28, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    #82 LG

    IMHO it is pretty immature to have unprotected sex in a hot tub with some girl you have met that night who could have any kind of STD and who you could get pregnant.

  181.  #181lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:14 am

    I don’t much care what other people are doing with their relationships in the LONG narrative term… however, i find it absolutely FASCINATING to see what decisions people make moment by moment

    go on ladies, do it, i want to see it done : )

  182.  #182lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:25 am

    BTW i should have been in bed hours ago…

    But……. um…. who cares? like, who is here? who knows? no one will know if i stay up all night…

    If I tell them… but I feel angry & hateful & retro even trying to imagine telling someone, listen, i stayed up all night riffing on my feelings & playing with different herb vibes in my apartment

    OK YES i’m psycho & non-functional. blame me. write me off. don’t care anymore. start skimming. no one cares. i’m in love with this lady bxllshxt. : )

    o si te amo muchisimo…

    y si puedo hablar contigo si quieres… pero no tengo nada de hambre solo de obtenerte. es para comunicar contigo. pero no me olvidarse de las memorias de la tierra, el rio, o, y si, de tu – como se dice – hair – tu pelo

    i want to build you a house in the country..

    but i want to protect my collection..

    i believed my father…

  183.  #183Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 12:28 am

    We’re meeting up later. I have a feeling it’s not going to go too well… 🙁

  184.  #184lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:29 am

    wandering in this most magical free territory – & by the FXCKING way – my biznatches bilt this shxxxt & BTW they want to say all sassy-like & protruding jaw bone – like, YES, we effing did this – so check the rhyme, fools – this shxt is so 4realz

  185.  #185lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:31 am

    DUDE @ BW 183

    ummmm so what????? i seriously see 10/10 men on the daily….

  186.  #186lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:33 am

    sorry BW if that sounds sassy…… just what i’m feeling………. like – so effing what — if they do what i want, AMAZING – if not, so what?

    “sometimes i feel i haven’t learned anything…

    “there’s something behind the whiskey whispers you speak… that rocks me to sleep… that rocks me to sleep……….. that rocks me to sleep…”

  187.  #187English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 12:40 am

    #173 Emerson

    Well half an hour south of London on the train, no way could I ever afford to live right in there, not unless I meet me a millionaire. 😀

    Oh I don’t find Brit accents anywhere near as cute as American males lol. 😉

  188.  #188English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 12:41 am

    #183 BW

    Do you have your script prepared?

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. 😉

  189.  #189lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:42 am

    Ah – i don’t want to win anyone.

    But, yes, i do want assistance. I feel as though I’m trying to run a business all by myself…..

    Sitting here with some major Raw resources…. Sorry feminists, not trying to h8te on y’all… I’m just getting curious………………. Did we not WANT to just chill, receive suitors, choose 1, start a family, cultivate home-body skills? I’m LITERALLY just curious – as that is what my natural instincts tend toward???

    PLZ to boyz who think they want a h8rsewife – I think I’m your l8dy LOL

    “the wife & kids I’m waiting for”

    I swear to Holy-ness, my computer is about to be like, “BYE! lol, yes, I do mean forever ; ) ” so sweet & cute-sy like lol. NOT FUNNY.

  190.  #190Butterfly Wings on November 29, 2011 at 1:21 am

    EW, I’m working on it now!

    To be honest, I’m not sure what to say. My first instinct is to attack him for the crappy things he’s said and done over the last few days, but I know that won’t help. So I’m working on making this all about me and how I feel.

    This is hard… :-\

  191.  #191lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:28 am


    if that were me, i’d be sleepy & just wanting to bang… not a good place to be approaching present-minded conversation from

    “all that she wants…” XXX GHOSTFACE X ACE OF BASS = dirty jam

  192.  #192RiverGirl on November 29, 2011 at 1:30 am

    EW, hope you two can hear each other.

    Remember to unzip your heart and sink into your feelings so that your words come out authentically and so he can see your vulnerability. xo

  193.  #193lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:35 am

    & Sara by Bob Dylan of course


    I’d be like, I feel weird being physically close & that you feel so comfortable after feeling bad wanting to be so emotionally close to you & what do you think?

    it’s only beats – it’s only rhymes
    it’s only beats, & beats make the rhymes

    you know? & i’d be like,
    like what’s the point … & trying to have a laugh – & trying not to feel half as bad …

    this is rap music
    this is rap music

    about a bronx-based mc striving for perfection
    justin timberlake stars as tupac shakur
    & hillary duff as spinderella
    this romantic comedy features
    nick lachey as nasty nas

    I’d be confused as to what he was after – showing up in my bed, while being pretty clear on not being able to give me the commitment I want.

  194.  #194lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:36 am

    my armpit hair is, like, luxuriously long

  195.  #195lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:38 am

    shipped the gift directly to the address – spoiled the surprise – but i spoil the surprise so often that the whole offer is still spontaneous & somewhat shocking

  196.  #196lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:43 am

    hoo hoo hoo

    attic&abasement with a knife serrated I’ll protect you

    woo woo

    & your heart is finally ending

    it’s not too late now to change your mind

    we’ll get to the finish line

    attic&abasement attic& a basement attic & a basement attick& abasement

    it shouldn’t feel like it is ending






    MAGICCC – bum bum bum bum ——- bew bew bew bew bew wob wob wob wob wob wowowoowowowowbbbbbbbbb


  197.  #197Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 1:44 am

    BW what is his normal reactive behavior, defensive or attack? Whatever it is you already know it and can prepare to deal with it ahead of time also. That will be his response to you.

  198.  #198lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:44 am

    we likes to party – we don’t cause trouble & we don’t bother nobody : )

  199.  #199lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:49 am

    @FW & @BW

    Maybe it’s just because i’m so sleepy *(&fear not – this comment directly proceeds a prompt march to the pillows) BUT I am feeling so triggered right now by the silly approach you are taking to this man.

    YES i’m sure he’s lovelybeautifulwonderfulamazinglysensitive&expressive – AT TIMES – but, come on, let’s only have the men who make us insanely joyful just by the pure expression of their present moment of consciousness & drive – & yes, i do want that & yes I do aspire to inspire that level of safety & security in a man – like knowing you are securely tethered before you belay down the rock face – like trusting – like the strong arms you trust your anchor ropes in – those forearms – that focus, that love

    goodnight – much love, to the ladies & to the gentlemen who court us ; )

  200.  #200Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 1:52 am

    Reposting for BW


    You can turn it around by saying and doing something DIFFERENT than you would normally, automatically do.

    And this is where Scripting helps you terrifically.

    And that’s why I created my program “Love Scripts.”

    Love Scripts is full of live demonstrations from beginning to end. Nonstop. There are real women on stage with me creating real scripts in real time around their real, unique situations — and there are so many of them that you will identify with.

    Not only will you be able to use the exact words we’re using in this program — almost like a manual for you to follow — in Love Scripts I show you step-by-step (and the women participating in the program will demonstrate it for you in real time) how to create your OWN script.

    For any situation you’re in.


    So when you find yourself with your mouth hanging open, absolutely speechless, because a man has just shocked you with something he said or did or neglected to do, you will know exactly what to say.

    And it won’t be a strategy. It won’t be a game. It won’t be an attempt to be clever, or funny, or banter or give a snappy comeback.

    Love Scripts will teach you how to drill down to your actual, real, authentic feelings and express those feelings.

    Express them in words that will get you CLOSER to this man instantly. Here’s a Tool around this right now:


    Let’s say a man met you, got your number, called you, took you out for tea, called you again, made a date, took you out on that date, you had a great time, then he called you again, left a message and said he would call later.

    And then he didn’t.

    This seems like such a small thing. But it’s not.

    It’s the first instance where he doesn’t follow through. And what happens is this:

    A man gets into this habit of not following through, and then we start to feel resentful. We try to be understanding, we want to understand that he’s not perfect, we want to come up with an excuse why he didn’t follow through.

    But still we’re stuck with — what do we say to him?

    And even more important: what to say to him to let him know that following through is important to us, that contact is important to us, and that you really want him to call when he says he will and, actually, you want him to call often?

    And do all this without sounding clingy, needy or dramatic?

    I would suggest you try this:

    1. Stop whatever you’re thinking.

    2. Stop whatever you’re doing

    3. Take a breath and get quickly into the Rori Raye Dance Position.

    This means: Open your palms out to the world, lean your body back, unzip your heart, let your heart out to breathe, let your shoulders drop, check in with your body to find out where you’re holding tension, and focus in deeply on how your body and your heart are feeling.

    4. Now, ask yourself for a feeling or sensation — any feeling, any sensation that feels true to you in the moment. Try mad, sad, glad, or afraid for starters.

    Keep it simple.

    5. Speak Your Truth

    Say it this way: “I feel (mad, sad, glad, afraid).”

    That’s all you have to tell him, which is usually the hardest thing since we women work so HARD to hide what we’re really feeling. But telling him what you’re feeling in plain language like this is exactly what he can really hear.

    6. Now, Stand There.

    That’s it. Just stand there. Breathe.

    Shake if you’re feeling shaky. Stay really, really checked-in with your body.

    This means check in with how you feel after you’ve said these words out loud — right in the presence of a man or over the phone.

    7. Now what about his part?

    How can you possibly know what he will say?

    Well, actually… you KNOW what he’s going to say!

    He’s either going to go “negative”:

    Put you down, and make you feel small and silly. Or…

    Clam up and get mad. Or…

    Clam up and withdraw.

    Or go “positive.” And, you may be surprised, but this is WAY MORE LIKELY to happen. This is all new, remember! He will likely be very surprised, caught off guard, and feel RELIEVED!

    He’s likely to ask you a question. He’s likely to say “What’s wrong?” Or “Why?”

    And he’s likely to do this with curiosity and concern if he cares about you!

    So you get to make a couple of choices in advance. You get to prepare.

    You get to prepare for a negative, defensive response, and you get to prepare for the “Why?” questions.

    If your man automatically gets defensive when things aren’t going exactly the way he wants them to go, then you know he’s going to get defensive.

    He’s going to put his arms in front of his body, and he’s going to look down his nose at you, and he’s going to try to distance you.

    On the other hand, if he lets his arms go down by the side of his body, leans in toward you and seems fairly shocked — you may have opened up a whole new pathway to love in this relationship!

    So we Script this!

    We script an answer for if he gets defensive or withdraws or goes cold, and we script an answer for if he asks you what you mean.

    And it works exactly the same way as the Tool I just laid out.

    What you need the Love Scripts program for is all the details around this.

    To understand what “context” means and how to use it.

    To understand how to go “Rounds.”

  201.  #201lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:55 am

    outkast – elevators –

    me & you – your mama & your cousin too…

    slammin’ Cadillac doors…

    some nxgga was sayin’ somethin’….

    what kind of car you drive?

    true, i got more fans than the average man, but not enough loot to last me to the end of the week; I live by the beat, like you live like check to check; if you don’t move your feet, then I don’t eat; so we like neck-and-neck

  202.  #202Ella on November 29, 2011 at 1:56 am

    BW re 112,

    I can relate.

    A lot has to do with what WE really believe about our worth, deep down.

    I have this idea that often most men will go for the easiest option. So if they meet an attractive woman and they can get sex easily, without having to work for her they will take that, although maybe her worth in their eyes might go down.

    However if she believes she deserves more they will see she is a high value woman and they will pu the work in to court her.

    Or fall away if they are unwilling or unable to do that.

    I am babystepping away from the idea that men would only want me for sex. And I know its not true so it is gradually sinking in.


  203.  #203lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:58 am

    insomnia by death

    oh no here we are again, like a decade later…

    please, no – is all i say from here

  204.  #204lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:11 am

    WHY IS NO ONE ELSE EVER HERE in the dark times without the exhaustion — the heaviness & the responsibility, without the trust in repose – oh, yes, the trust in repose ——– what a lovely phrasing, & how drawn i feel to a dark room with a pillow now… & the dreams, & a promise of a morning coffee & a stretch…. why do you keep me from a good rest? why do you keep me from a good wake? ah, yes, let’s battle at the alarm clock, isn’t that good?

  205.  #205Aurora Girl on November 29, 2011 at 2:35 am

    Good morning Sirens
    I’m so glad to have this blog to come to, just reading some days and posting others….it’s become a little lifeline for me. And I am thankful that we are such a diverse group

    Ella…thanks for posting your reminder comment:
    “A lot has to do with what WE really believe about our worth, deep down”….I needed that reminder. ….and all the other comments on this post.

    I woke to a coyote calling out early morning. In some cultures the animal medicine or teaching of coyote is to be aware of the “trickster”..which I come to understand sometimes is my own mind and thinking. Last night I felt “off”, a little overwhelmed and tired and everything I was exposed to (kids, phone conversation with LD, work) seemed distorted and wrong. Oh yuck I ‘m not fond of that feeling but I was open to feel it just the same. In fact with LD on the phone last night I was brave enough to just say “I’m feeling off”.

    Of course immediately he assumed I was talking about him and us and got worried. Honestly I hate when a man does that….personalizes what you say as if it’s always about him. So I steered away from that and just repeated that I feel off….and that anything I were to think about would be distorted (kinda saying hey if you want to go there I can talk myself out of this relationship no problem cause I’m not thinking straight anyway). I just needed to talk about every day stuff to get grounded again. So he went along. I just needed to get in touch with how I felt.

    Ella if I get better at anything I want to get better at realizing I have good self worth and focusing on me. I want to validate my feelings by being true to them… matter what a CD needs right then and there…I’m tired of pussy footing around to protect his feelings…..he’s man enough to do it himself or I don’t want a relationship with him.

    Rori your CDing idea and the focus on oneself feel like the right foundation on which an intimate relationship can stay healthy. When I feel like I”m getting pulled in by LD’s comments that he wants to be “the guy” and how serious he is about the relationship it’s easy to start committing to it…thinking too far ahead and then the pressure comes in….oh yuck. I stopped running in mid October…….I stopped watching my food intake and gained 5 pounds…why? because I stopped making those a priority and started to get lost in contributing to the relationship……going with what he wanted to do in the time…….my mind was saying…..hey he travels all this way….I should give…..he wants this to be forever…I should step up …

    Then I think ? after 4 months? of LD? too fast! too deep too fast! Need to back off. Some things were coming up where I started to feel invisible again…..

    yeah because I was me forgetting me!

    I don’t like forgetting me. it’s enough to have 3 kids to raise…..I want to stop feeling guilty for focusing on me…..especially when it comes to a relationship with a man.

    Now I try to remember sooner to lean back, re focus on me, and lighten up….and to take my guy friends up on the coffee they want to meet for……I will consider them CD’s especially if they are single…….man that works for me…….and I’ll be open about it with LD……

    ps: see EW I don’t always “get it”……..always always a work in progress 🙂

    THanks for listening…..I feel blessed I can share this here…….and I thank you so much.


  206.  #206Aurora Girl on November 29, 2011 at 2:37 am


    you ok?

    sleepless night?

  207.  #207Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 2:59 am

    Thanks people. I just arrived at his house. Will update you later. I think I have my main script all worked out. Will let you know his reaction. :-/

  208.  #208Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 3:00 am

    Oh and before I get in trouble for going to him, I wanted to have this conversation out of my daughter’s earshot.

  209.  #209Aurora Girl on November 29, 2011 at 3:15 am


    I hope it goes well. Sending you good vibes.

  210.  #210tenny on November 29, 2011 at 3:32 am

    @ IK

    Eventually I feel asleep with the computer on my lap. Wish I had known you were on line!!! I was the only one here for a while. We were both going through insomnia. Wish I had seen you were posting. Hope you got some rest.

  211.  #211tenny on November 29, 2011 at 3:33 am

    @ Emerson

    Thank you Siren, it was rough but good cry. I got a bit of sleep. Feeling better now 🙂

  212.  #212tenny on November 29, 2011 at 3:35 am

    @ Femininewoman

    Thanks for the repost!!

  213.  #213Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 3:41 am

    119 Emerson

    That feels bad to read. I don’t want E to move to another state and get married. Hope I’ll have him fall in love with me and commit before that… Oh! I feel hopeless after reading your message. I know that was not your intention…

  214.  #214Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 3:47 am

    128 BW

    Ahhh thank you. Feelijg hopeful again. But you know, I was always kind of seeing other people, and he never came get me… Like he’s afraid to male me loose my freedom or something. Arrrg this guy. And he is not European or American either, he is from Eastern Europe, they have very different thoughts about how women should act in a couple… Wondering if it’s for that… Or maybe it’s an international thing?

  215.  #215Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 4:00 am

    Lol Emerson, now I want to text E and tell him “please don’t move to another state with another woman!!”. Haha I won’t, don’t worry! He would be like, huh?

  216.  #216Butterfly Wings on November 29, 2011 at 5:24 am

    Thanks everyone. I’m home now and we had a big talk but didn’t really “resolve” anything. I just said how I felt, and he didn’t get defensive or attack, so I must’ve done it right! And I didn’t keep harping on about it either.

    We went for a nice walk together too. I love going for walks with him.

    When I got home I had an email from him thanking me for going over there and how he’d had a nice night apart from my “lecture”, and booked me in for dinner next Tuesday.

    I had also emailed him, asking him a specific question about a misunderstanding we’d had last week and asking him to clarify, stating that I wanted to make a decision about what to do based on facts rather than wishful thinking. So in other words, whether to stick it out with him or move on.

    That was also done in a non-blamey way too.

    So I’m glad I went, although I’m still not feeling at ease, but I do feel better than I did this afternoon. That’s a good start I suppose….even if there’s a way to go…

    Anyway I’m exhausted. Night sirens and thank you everybody for your support. It’s very very very much appreciated. xxx

  217.  #217English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 5:38 am

    #205 AG

    Thanks for sharing, glad to know you are only human too LOL!! 😀

  218.  #218English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 5:41 am

    #216 BW

    {{{{ HUGS }}}} from the old dart, have a good sleep, here’s to it all working out as it’s supposed to…………..

  219.  #219Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 5:55 am

    I feel worried and scared about my second month’s rent due December 1st. I haven’t received any unemployment checks yet in nearly a month. They have it on hold while they review why I left my last job. I feel reasonably sure I will get it, but in the meantime, I am living on thin air.

  220.  #220Lili 41 on November 29, 2011 at 6:05 am


    Hi BW,

    You’re very courageous.
    Would you mind sharing your FMs from last night?
    I’m OK with a no, but it’s inspiring for me to read other sirens’ FMs.

  221.  #221Susan on November 29, 2011 at 6:08 am

    RE: 216: Butterfly Wings says:

    “When I got home I had an email from him thanking me for going over there and how he’d had a nice night apart from my “lecture””


  222.  #222Tallulah on November 29, 2011 at 6:21 am

    It’s been a VERY long time, hello again. I feel bad and must apologise because I just suddenly disappeared in what seemed like mid conversation about 2 years ago! I just wanted to give an update if anyone is interested. I have read back through my posts and it feels odd, it’s like someone else’s past. Here’s briefly what’s been happening. 3 years ago I wrote that I was ‘on my knees’. I was insecure, afraid of the future and convinced my relationships would never ‘work’.I ordered the siren stuff and started trying it out. dated several guys at same time and really practised all those feeling messages, stepping back etc, I was scared at first of exposing myself emotionally but quickly started getting amazing encounters in all areas of my life and it’s literally changed my life. I doubted myself and everything. Instead of ‘falling’ for the first man who could’ve been the one I took my time, I focused on me for the first time in my life and ‘the one’ did appear.I re-read some of the notes I made from the siren series on what my ideal relationship would be and this is it.I naturally talk from my feeling place now, with everyone, it’s 2nd nature and it is a revelation. My relationship is open, honest and there is no fear anymore. I am evangelical about Rori’s work. I now have a beautiful daughter, a wonderful partner and wanted to thank Rori and everyone here for everything. Hopefully my daughter will absorb most of what I have learnt but when she’s old enough to start dating I am confident she’ll have a wonderful time because I can show her how it can and should be. Thanks again and sorry again for just popping in and out like this. (Is Cassandra still in contact here? I think about her a lot.)

  223.  #223Mochaberri on November 29, 2011 at 6:24 am

    Hello Sirens! Sorry I’ve been off the grid but I’m back now trying to catch up!!

    Hope everyone had a great Thankgiving!!!

  224.  #224Lili 41 on November 29, 2011 at 6:26 am

    I really enjoy being in touch w so many women in so many places around the world.
    It’s fascinating how we can all be going through the same experiences all the way around the world and be able to share.

    I get dumbfounded when I read someone going to bed for the night while I’m starting my day.

    I have found this fun timezone map:

  225.  #225Mochaberri on November 29, 2011 at 6:27 am

    @ BW – 216 – I had also emailed him, asking him a specific question about a misunderstanding we’d had last week and asking him to clarify, stating that I wanted to make a decision about what to do based on facts rather than wishful thinking. So in other words, whether to stick it out with him or move on.

    Not sure why you wanted to ask him if you should stick it out or move on – it’s your decision – you have the power. Based on RR’s tools we should never have to ask that question – it should happen organically

  226.  #226Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 6:34 am

    RE 224 Like

  227.  #227Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 6:36 am

    BW Hopefully when you get the Reconnect CDs you will get information to help you stop making it all about him and make it all about you.

  228.  #228Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 6:47 am

    Dear Soulmate Manifestors,

    I’m writing about a very tender topic today…

    Have you ever found yourself at the end of a relationship asking yourself, “How can I survive this?”

    It can feel like you’re walking around with an open wound, right? Everything aches.
    In fact it hurts just to be awake and sometimes there’s no end in sight.

    And then you realize: it’s not just your relationship that broke… your heart broke too. You broke.

    I’m sorry to bring this up. We’ve all been there and no one likes to talk about this side of love… but I want to help. Because if you’re experiencing debilitating heartache right now, or you’re still dealing with the residue of past heartache…The pain you’re feeling doesn’t have to continue.

    The good news here is that most breakup pain isn’t caused by ending your relationship. It’s created by the way you’ve been taught to end your relationships.

    Unfortunately, most of us have been mislead to “break apart” in devastating and destructive ways… and we make damaging and dangerous mistakes that end up creating more suffering, costing us our sanity and stealing our joy. They can even prevent future love!

    That’s why so many of us spend 5… 10… 30 years trying to heal from past breakups.

    And the crazy thing is, we think that we have to just suffer through it and just hope that eventually, someday, we’ll get over it and won’t hurt anymore. We’re left feeling powerless and hopeless to help ourselves in any really meaningful way.

    Yet, now it’s time to learn a different way …

    Discover the Art of Conscious Completion in This FREE Online Seminar

    Rather than only focus on the pain and problem, this empowering online teleseminar will teach you the step by step process of how you can accelerate your healing by using the pain you are in to catalyze a whole new life.

  229.  #229Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Until we learn how to heal from these breakup mistakes and learn how to conscious complete our relationships in an entirely new way, we run the risk of remaining in pain and living lesser lives … making things worse for ourselves and our children or loved ones.

    You are not alone. We all know what it’s like to hurt and suffer from a breakup. And I want to help you get out of any pain like that quickly!

    And that’s why I’m writing this email today… to share with you an empowering training from licensed psychotherapist and national bestselling author of Calling in “The One,” Katherine Woodward Thomas.

    This FREE Online Seminar will deliver you an entirely new way to approach the end of love.

    Katherine will equip you with a powerful, proven step by step process to help you avoid the hellacious damage so often associated with breaking up… as well as show you how to heal any damage you may have suffered in the past.

    Learn How to Avoid (or heal from!) the 3 Breakup Mistakes that Cause Suffering, Steal Joy & Prevent Future Love:

    Katherine has helped over 100,000 people find love and now she’s helping us heal and complete relationships in a loving way. With such a difficult subject matter, I’m touched by her wisdom, kindness and comforting manner in carrying people through her process.

    So if you’re hurting, or still not over that past relationship, I really hope you’ll get the salve you need when you listen to this call.

    Even if you’re not in a breakup right now, this information is vital to any of us who has ever suffered the painful ending of a relationship. Plus it doesn’t cost a thing to attend.

    Sign Up Now For This LIVE Global Teleconference Event

    Make sure you sign up even if you can’t attend live-she’ll send you the recording.
    Wishing you love, laughter and magical kisses,


  230.  #230Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 7:07 am

    In the films, Bella receives so much from Jacob and Edward without much effort on her part, rendering those stories an adolescent fantasy. The good news is that you can find your own “Twilight” fantasy come true with a great man, if you take the time to learn the dance of courtship.

  231.  #231Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 7:16 am

    These words of EMK resonates with me today

    “Simply by giving him space to figure things out, Paula differentiates herself from all of the women who lead with their fear and talk incessantly about the future.

    It’s not a foolproof plan, I acknowledge. Peter still may decide he’s going through too much transition to make a real commitment.

    But if he does make a commitment, I can promise you it’s because of the way Paula remembered to consider HIS feelings at this tenuous moment, not just her own.”

  232.  #232Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 7:18 am

    Orna thanks for sharing your insights. I really like your concept and have started to put it into practice. Sending love to every cell of my body with my breath is really simple and relatively easy to practice and to keep my focus on myself no matter where I am.

  233.  #233Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 7:25 am

    What’s wrong with me? I feel sad and crying for like 3 days. Again. I keep thinking about E and wondering why we are not together after 5 years if he likes me and I am pretty sure he’s the one… I have a date tonight and I don’t fell AT ALL like going. Right now, I feel like cancelling and go home and cry. How pathetic…

  234.  #234Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Nothing is wrong with you. That is a question I used to ask myself but have come to accept that there is nothing wrong. Lizka can I encourage you to read Orna’s comments above and try doing it for about an hour?

  235.  #235Mochaberri on November 29, 2011 at 7:45 am

    RE 230 – “Simply by giving him space to figure things out, Paula differentiates herself from all of the women who lead with their fear and talk incessantly about the future.

    I constantly find myself asking this question – what does giving him space look like? What do I do in the meantime?

    Any thoughts??

  236.  #236Camille on November 29, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Good Morning Sirens,
    I am back from our Thanksgiving trip.
    Thanks to listening to all of your suggestions (and a glass of wine) it all went well.

    I havent been on the blog for a week so I’ll catch up with all of you today.

    Hope you had a wonderful Holiday.

  237.  #237confused on November 29, 2011 at 8:11 am

    good afternoon everyone…i am feeling confused. I am an aquaintance of a man at the church that i go to..we just say hi and we go out to eat after as a group and hes there. Last sunday the common friends were not there it was just me and him so we hung out together (spontaneous date)….
    He completely shocked me when he said he was interested in me and that this was a good time to bring it up because no one else was with us. He asked me if I would give him a chance and to give him one month i guess to be exclusive. I said I liked him and that is fine. Hes a latino and yeah hes not shy hes very flirtacious and he also said hes impulsive which i can see. Anyway hes been texting me this week and hes nice but I feel confused Im not sure if hes just in some kind of a hurry or if hes just that into me….we havent really gotten to know each other…he texted me that after God he will occupy the rest of my heart!lol wow..i told him that I feel nice with his optimism but confused because I would like it if he got to know me more and ask me questions about me. he texted “definitely” but then he didnt! he asked what do I like about a man and how do I like to be treated: I said I like relaxed guys, kind, confident in who he is, and that have personal goals. He said he likes alot of attention like the love of his mother so that he could call his girl a “mamacita”-lmao! I dont know about this guy is it a red flag when they are this intense, or is it actually a good sign for someone to come off this strong? I just dont trust a man who is that into me without getting to know me…any thoughts anyone?

  238.  #238Rori Raye on November 29, 2011 at 8:23 am

    wow, Tallulah! Welcome back, BRAVA to YOU! – and thank you so much for this … Love, Rori

  239.  #239confused on November 29, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Hi Rori! Im number 237 let me know what you think when you have a chance

  240.  #240Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 8:35 am

    334 FW

    Thank you very much. I’m ready to do anything not to feel like I do right now. I don’t see what post you are talking about. The breathing exercixe in #156 ?

  241.  #241Mel on November 29, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Morning ladies!

    I feel like things are going nicely with Mr. Architect. I feel happy with our “relationship,” however that may be qualified. I feel like I can talk with him about anything… even sort of “uncomfortable” topics. He responds well to me sharing my feelings (both good and bad). I enjoy his company, and I feel like the feeling is mutual.

    I appreciate that he always tries to stay in contact, even when we are not able to see each other. Sometimes even if he’s having a super busy day, he’ll just text: “thinking of you… talk later k?” I’m making a mental note right now to tell him how much I appreciate that.

    No follow-up from Sexy Sarcastic since that last text. It’s funny, because I’m actually hoping I won’t hear from him again. I’m starting to have some strong feelings for Architect, so I’m not sure I would want to date him anyway. Lately I’ve been doing the more friendly sort of CDing and just taking good care of myself and I feel happy with that. I suppose I’ll cross that bridge IF I come to it. The thought of dating others (in a traditional sense) feels bad to me right now. What does this mean?

    It still makes me feel kinda great that Sexy Sarcastic contacted me again though (even if I’m not interested). It makes me feel all sireny and confident and special. 🙂

    I’ve been sooooo busy, but it feels great to get caught-up on the blog again today!

  242.  #242lk on November 29, 2011 at 8:42 am

    @Aurora Girl & @tenny, thanks! yes, i was really letting myself “go there” last night… though the timing was no great as now I’m in the office & exhausted!!! : ) good to vent the energy, though, & guaranteed i will sleep like bear tonight!

    sad i didn’t wake for yoga, but at least i did wake in time for work lol… only the 5TH alarm woke me… that is kind of bad, but really very lucky. seriously, if i’m late for work 1 more time, I bet i get fired. OR i bet bossman loses it so intensely that he gets fired & i get compensated LOL that makes me crack up…. anywayz – last thought for this coffeebreak moment: everyone is superbusy so bossman & i are doing a project together today… we both rarely do that kind of work haha so it should be a real treat… i hope he will be really in a good mood & very patient & also maybe helpful : ) that sounds nice! I do like him : )))

    also, i’m sort of very mad that no one helped me on the little thing that’s been done for weeks, minus editing from tech humans. that would be so cool to get all printed & bound & nice : ))) also & truly last thought, it’s kind of hilarious to me that my whole life in school, people were like, lighten up – don’t be so serious – relax – be easy on yourself… & now i’m in the working world & everyone is like, stop smiling – no laughing – no joy – stop smiling – stop thinking about things that make you happy – get fat & worry about getting fat so much that you binge on horrible plastic lard sticks from the vending machine – h8te yourself – h8te your boss – h8te the underlings – h8te your co-workers – you’re not doing it fast enough – slow down! we can’t have a single error or the whole world will explode – hurry up! what are you doing? we have deadlines, people – this is all very serious & important & real & no, nothing can possibly wait til tomorrow unless it’s something i don’t much care about & then I’ll continue to ignore emails & questions about it until the actual CEO of the company knocks on my office door & asks me to do it, & then, actually, i think I’ll quietly delegate that task to you as soon as he’s out of ear-range.

  243.  #243Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Lizka 156. Yes give yourself love.

  244.  #244lk on November 29, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Oh, & also, Demi is so pretty : )))

  245.  #245lk on November 29, 2011 at 8:50 am

    can i miss a meeting today? it would be kind of bad as it’s the last one until January!!! but i’m so tired & also, I’ve not missed a single one since being asked to participate…… PLEASE someone tell me it’s not bad to bail. ON the other hand: if i go to the meeting, i can excuse myself early from the bossman project. oh, f. cannot leave early. so – thus – cannot go to meeting ! oh, gg, lk ! you solved the mystery : ) lol

  246.  #246confused on November 29, 2011 at 8:54 am

    245, yes miss the meeting! especially if you never I feel really confused about my situation its 237 I feel pushy now because I want advice on it so badly lol! let me know what you think

  247.  #247Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Thank you FW. I can’t do it right now since I am at the office. I will try to find some time tonight.

    I have a date tonight with a potential CD. Because of the way I am feeling, I really don’t feel like going. I don’t feel like being in something new. I want to be into something comfortable. I feel more like beeing with someone who’s gonna listen to me (like E), or just to be alone at home and breathe and love myself.

    I try never to cancel my dates because it’s a pattern for me to do so. Is it ok to cancel if I am not feeling alright? Should I call E and tell him I need him tonight? Or do I really have to go home alone and be with myself?

  248.  #248Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Likza sorry but it sounds to me like you are all up in your head trying to convince yourself that you are not feeling well and as such will not enjoy the date. I would say if you are not physically sick and you know this is a pattern for you, then you would do yourself the most service by pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and going on the date. Honestly if I were E I would not want to be in your presence right now because I believe that would feel draining to him. I am sure that is not what your idea of romance is and why would you want to bring him into the icky feelings. Seem to me like being with yourself might be something you want to learn to do and be comfortable with.

    Sorry if this come across harsh but your writing seems like you are pining for this man as if you will fall apart if he does not do what you want. That is not an attractive place to be in and it won’t inspire him to want to be with you. Lifting your self esteem is important and dates with other men will definitely help with that.

  249.  #249tinque on November 29, 2011 at 9:36 am

    confused – I feel confused about what you are feeling confused about. I don’t see from what you wrote that he’s coming on strong. I see a man who is interested in you and asking some normal questions, and I see a man who may or may not step up. It’s way too early to know.

    If you are interested, pursue this, see what he does or doesn’t do. If you are aren’t interested, then let it and him go.

    Or if you want to practice with him without thought or feelings of anything more, then go ahead.

    xxoo Dominique

  250.  #250Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 9:53 am


    RE: #222 – Congratulations! I feel encouraged hearing a Siren Success Story! I hope to be telling my success story someday soon on here!

  251.  #251Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 10:03 am


    RE: #237 – Congratulations! I feel leery, too, when a man comes across so strongly. On the one hand, I would feel kinda weird if he said he wanted me to love him in a motherly way so he could call me mamacita. On the other hand, my ex, K, told me that no matter how tuff a man seems, EVERY man is really crying “Mommy, Mommy!” I believe that, because I believe inside every man is an inner little boy wanting and needing love. I would still feel a little weird tho, like he has mommy issues to be stating that up front like that. Once a man came to me like that, saying his mother had been a drug addict and left him and his brother to roam the streets with no home and no family at age 12. He was messed up emotionally and truly did want a mother figure. He seemed too immature to handle a real relationship with a woman. So, yeah, I would take that as a red flag and just be cautious.

    The thing I have learned the hard way is that trouble is so easy to get into and so hard to get out of. And the same with relationships. So when a relationship IS trouble, it is far better to get into it gradually and know what you are dealing with before it’s too late.

    If I were in your position, I would state that I like to let relationships develop organically. I would discuss that with him to be sure he understood what I meant. If it were me, I would be unwilling to be exclusive, even if he asked. That sounds like insecurity to me. If a relationship is to be longlasting, it needs the test of time. It needs to be tried, and if a man or woman don’t stick with it, then it wasn’t meant to be. I would start out with limited physical contact, just a hug and kiss perhaps. If he’s not content to take it at your pace, I would let him leave. What do you think?

  252.  #252Lili 41 on November 29, 2011 at 10:11 am


    Thank you so much for finding time to share w us Tallulah.
    It gives me hope and courage to continue on my quest.

  253.  #253lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:17 am



    It sounds to me like he is a nice man who is excited to have a chance to pursue you in a romantic way…

    If he asks you questions or invites you to do something or initiates contact in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable/overwhelmed/uncertain, you can share that with him! He will only know how you feel if you open up your heart & you can do it in a very friendly way, like, “Oh wow! That is flattering… but actually i feel weird that you’re asking that when really we are just getting to know each other… maybe later i’d feel comfortable with that, but i just don’t know right now : )” Obviously that’s super-generic, but you get it…

    Um… also, Tinque’s advice is really good : )

    Who knows what will happen? The easiest way to find out is to focus on how you’re feeling & let him lead & if he does what you want, then say yes the next time he asks you out : )

    Massive caveat: if your internal alarm bells are going off, doing the “red flag” number, take extra steps to make sure you’re safe while you’re out with him – like take your own car – meet a place that’s public & comfortable – & go out in daytime the first few times. If you feel truly unsafe around him, that is a really good sign that you shouldn’t be with him & you can just say to him, “Thank you so much for your interest & yes I do enjoy you, but I’d feel better if we just limited our socializing to church activities : )”

    & thanks for the encouragement – I think I will have to cancel on the meeting : ))))

  254.  #254lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:19 am


    “trouble is so easy to get into and so hard to get out of.”

    LOL truer words were never spoken

  255.  #255Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 10:23 am


    RE: #235 – You said, “I constantly find myself asking this question – what does giving him space look like? What do I do in the meantime?

    Any thoughts??”

    Hi there! I have been making a sometimes-maddening study of giving R space! And I am feeling far more content at it than I was 2 years ago, or 1 year ago!

    All the advice in the world about WHAT to do or WHAT to say or not say did not make a bit of difference until I had a deep internal shift. It took time, but what really made the difference, as I’ve shared on here before, is when Rori suggested thinking of myself as a warm, sandy beach.

    That gave me a REASON to not contact R. Before my flawed logic and heavy-duty emotions kept me believing that if I truly loved him, I wouldn’t just leave him alone. But now I understand things far better from HIS perspective, and I don’t want to disrespect his boundaries and need for space, autonomy, and the freedom of choice.

    Somehow becoming a warm, soft, sandy beach helped me finally understand at a deeper level what Rori meant when she said “be an invitation”.

    So here is what giving R more space looks like for me…except for rare occasions, I don’t initiate contact. I respond using my best feeling messages with openness and warmth when he does contact me (which joyfully has been 2-4 times a week lately!!). When I am alone, and I feel tempted to text or call him, I sit or lie quietly for a few minutes, literally envisioning me as a warm, sandy beach. I hear the seagulls overhead. I feel joy as I see small children running wildly with their pails and shovels, kicking up sand with their tiny feet. I see boats in the distance, bobbing on the swells of the ocean. I feel the sun warming my essence, filling me with warmth and light and peace. Then I picture R walking onto the beach with a smile. I make sure the beach is clean, leaving no jellyfish or prickly sea plants that might sting him (AKA resentment, anger, undealt-with hurts). All he sees and feels when he walks onto my beach is warmth, freedom, fun, happiness, enjoyment, and openness.

    Then after my mental trip to my beach, I think about what I need to do that day and do what is highest on my priority list. If I have ME time after that, I will do things that contribute to being my best self, so that when R DOES appear, I will be better as a person. For me, that looks like activities to lose weight and get in shape. So I might cook a batch of homemade soup and freeze it in individual containers, so I have something healthy and low in calories to reach for when I am hungry. Or I might take a walk with my dogs to get exercise. Or work on unpacking and organizing my house. Or taking care of bills, jobhunting, seeking assistance, so that I have a home when he wants to visit.

    My attitude toward my own life has shifted. I don’t do things because I have to to survive. I do them to prepare myself for my groom, whether he turns out to be R or someone else. It has given my life much more purpose. I am not saying I just do it for a man. I am saying I want to be a wife, so I do it in preparation for my future, so that my future marriage will be the best possible. I am doing it for me, and I am doing it for him. What will happen tomorrow should affect how I live life today. What do you think?

  256.  #256Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 10:24 am


    RE: #254 – LOL, yes, that is one of my favorite wise sayings!

  257.  #257Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2011 at 10:24 am

    @158: lk says:
    “…i look cute in my m.c. hammer pants & my gold holiday mock turtleneck sweater with shoulder pads. rachel zoe says 80s full-force & i am depending on it… BALLERRRRRRR #goodwill #fauxhautecouture…”

    Loving it!

  258.  #258lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:25 am

    @Lizka 233

    “Again. I keep thinking about E and wondering why we are not together after 5 years if he likes me and I am pretty sure he’s the one…”

    I’m not trying to sunshine on your rainy pity parade… (LOL sorry – I love you) but I can just tell you that at different times in my life, I’ve been cr8zyinlove with 9 different men & thought – oh, no, seriously this time it’s real.

    the best thing is……… actually all of these men still periodically pursue me. so maybe one of those men really is the one & is just preparing himself, gathering experience & wisdom to be my life partner… “but probably not” says a wise voice in my head : )

  259.  #259Starla on November 29, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I am so excited! I just registered at the local college for a Chinese class and Music Theory!

    I feel excited for the new challenges.

  260.  #260Starla on November 29, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Awww, CF’s mom texted him and said “Starla is lovely.”

  261.  #261Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Starla Starla Starla!!!!!!!!!!

    I am joining your cheerleadiing team, cheering you on.

  262.  #262Starla on November 29, 2011 at 10:36 am

    FW, that’s rockin, thanks for the support hehehehe

  263.  #263lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:37 am

    LOL @SLV – i actually realized i was watching like a really old episode of RZ, so i guess 80s has come & gone? NOOOOO screams my inner fashionista – the 80s live on forever haha – & parachute pants & acrylic knits look so good on me : )

    saw a lady with a big ol’ axs at the gym yesterday & she was changing as I was stepping on the scale & I instantly lost 5 pounds just from thinking, “Oh, hi big lady’s bum!! You’re cute! Awwww dimples : )))” Oh & really really cute : ) I love humans – so nice & strange to see a big bum just right there haha — I’m smiling now just thinking about it.

    pretty effing positive that i am actually loony. does questioning your sanity make it more likely that you’re cr8zy? OR more likely that you are perfectly rational, just taking inventory of your own nuttiness?

  264.  #264lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:38 am

    @FW me too!!!

    star-la! star-la! : ))))

  265.  #265Femininewoman on November 29, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Are you aware of how often you judge yourself? This week, try an experiment. Notice whenever you are judging yourself and shift your inner dialogue into self-acceptance – and then notice the difference in your feelings!

    Satisfying emotional connection occurs when you talk and act from your heart, such as when you:

    Listen attentively and empathically
    Ask kind questions about meaningful things
    Speak your truth from your heart
    Let the other in on your learning and healing process
    Share in a creative process
    Do fun things together, laugh together
    Do kind and caring things for each other
    Want to understand, when things may be difficult between you and another person – stay open to learning with them, even when it is challenging
    Support each other in things that are important to each of you
    Experience joy for another’s joy and pain for their pain
    Show caring for the other’s feelings
    Care about how your words and behavior affect the other person

  266.  #266lk on November 29, 2011 at 10:47 am

    do they let you write & do crafts in a mental health institution? can i bring ALL my craft supplies? If i can bring ALL my craft supplies, i want to go. i’ll even share, i promise.

    in other news: exCD is so cr8zy pathetically in love with me… of course, I am in love with him too – but not so much the cr8zy part, so I just watch him & tell him what I want & sometimes he does it, but like i said he’s still in the cr8zy bits – so not very good at really paying attention to what i’m ACTUALLY saying lol… i did offer to show him my armpit hair when he kept trying to touch me & get me close…. HAHAHA… he was like, no thanks, i actually know quite a bit about armpit hair & yes i already know it’s soft, i actually have some. & i was like, oh, really? I LOVE making weird chitchat about our bodies because we have been so intimate, so it strikes me as hilarious to “reveal” things about ourselves with no reference to the past. not sure if that’s actually funny or nice, but i am 100% sure that it makes me smile & get excited & have fun with him : ) plus, i do like & love him – so, no h8te : )))

    in other, other news: ht (3yr college relationship) just emailed me music & a bunch of his new photos using this technique he invented YESTERDAY & by the freaking way, i just want to take a moment to BRAG that he is an absolute genius & that he sent them to ME — ME — TINY LITTLE LK!! first! FIRST YES i got to see them FIRST. eff yes. i feel like a special little princess.

  267.  #267Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2011 at 10:48 am

    @263: lk says:
    “…pretty effing positive that i am actually loony….”

    I think loony can be fun as long as I stay sane.

    Speaking of big bottoms, today I watched the Dr. Oz show (in U.S.) and the topic was how fat increases development of cancer.

    The show was complete with autopsies. I’m more motivated to decrease my waist size, maybe a tad off the backside too but I kind of like that part, smooth and curvy…

  268.  #268tinque on November 29, 2011 at 10:49 am

    lk – I’m quite sure we are all loony to some degree. I certainly am. I marvel and blush at my own thoughts sometimes, but you know, I bet if you asked and the person was being honest, he/she too have entertained such thoughts before.

    xxoo Dominique

  269.  #269Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 10:55 am


    Another thot: R taught me to do things as if I have all the time in the world…even developing romantic relationships. I tend to feel excited and want it to go from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds! But I am finding, through what he has brought me through the past 3 years, since we started dating (Dec 24, 2008), that it is far more satisfying, deep, meaningful, safe, and sure to take our time developing it. I can’t know what is in his mind and heart these days. But all my close friends and my therapist have noted that he always comes back. And that in itself is a very strong indication that he wants to be in my life.

    So I am learning that it is romantic to do all things as if I have all the time in the world: formulate a sentence to say or text; write on the blog; pet my dogs; sit in the backyard; walk along the shore; take care of personal business; eat. I don’t always do it, but I am more and more romancing myself and requiring a man to romance me. I don’t want a clinical relationship. I don’t want a question and answer relationship. I want a courtship. I want to know a man inside and out if I am deciding to spend the rest of my life with him. The thrill of new romance may fade, but if I have chosen the right man, I will be glad I took my time early on, while I still had an easy choice to back out.

  270.  #270Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Darn, I’m talking about “the new motivation” and I just finished eating egg nog icecream for lunch… actually it was lunch… oh, well…

    but I had a black coffee and that, according to the cancer prevention people is a daily good thing.

    Also, at least one citrus fruit. Also, two baby aspirins with a warm beverage. Easy to do. I had orange for breakfast and coffee with the (ice cream) lunch; now I need to buy some baby aspirin tablets.

    Looking forward to 2012.

  271.  #271Starla on November 29, 2011 at 11:00 am

    “pretty effing positive that i am actually loony. does questioning your sanity make it more likely that you’re cr8zy? OR more likely that you are perfectly rational, just taking inventory of your own nuttiness?”

    lk, basically, the crazy ones don’t think they’re crazy.

  272.  #272lk on November 29, 2011 at 11:04 am

    WOW seriously those photos blow my mind. I can’t imagine how he did them ?! & I’m smiling that he sent that at our special time of day : ) what a funny coincidence! it was so cute when he seriously under-estimated the amount of time we’d been broken up… hahahaha… awwwww poor boy! i love him… it makes me sad that he thinks he’s been pining that whole time. but i can pretty much guarantee that’s not the case…. what a good boy & really he will be an amazing man.

    gotta get my cheerleading out into the universe, without messing with his mind… i really think he’s wonderfully special & I feel sad that he believes he is a bit lonely… ok, go:

    lobe you, baby! ht is the best! yayyyy ht!! good job, sweet boy!!! awwww yay : ) you’re so handsome, baby, & i hope you’re riding your bike all around & going out with cool, new people & meeting strangers & i hope that when a pretty girl smiles at you at a bar, you smile back, give her a moment to give herself an inner pep talk, then go over & say something really really sweet, like, Hi : ) you look so at ease even with all this chaos tonight! what are you drinking? I think i’d like one too if it will make me smiling & calm like you : ))) can i get you another? oh, good boy, ht – you’re so sweet & respectful & handsome & special & talented : ))) good job, baby

    oh, oops! now i’ve gone & made myself cry a bit : /

    that’s ok, i’m just a little girl! i’m just a baby!

  273.  #273Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 11:08 am

    “does questioning your sanity make it more likely that you’re cr8zy? OR more likely that you are perfectly rational, just taking inventory of your own nuttiness?”

    I’ve often wondered that too. I’ve decided that the fact that I recognize my nuttiness makes me sane….maybe…

    That reminds me of a conversation I had recently.

    Guy friend: you’re weird
    Me: I know

  274.  #274lk on November 29, 2011 at 11:09 am

    @Starla @tinque @SLV

    thanks for the reassurance : ) i do think i’m off my rocker, but that chair was uncomfortable – only a cr8zy person would have stayed there – duh ! lol

  275.  #275Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 11:16 am

    And when I answered him, I truly felt proud of my weirdness. If being positive, and taking responsibility for myself, and being vulnerable makes me look weird in this guys eyes, then bring it on, I say.

    Haha, just remembered and AH saying “weird is the new normal”

    Speaking of, Jerry Hicks passed on recently. I felt really sad about it at first, I actually cried. Esther and Jerry have been very important teachers for me. Huge huge huge

    But then I remember all of their teachings about death and how it’s not a loss like we see it but actually a really wonderful and beautiful experience and also that we can stay connected with the one who moved on and that made me feel better.

    I still have moments of sadness though. I hope Esther is doing well. They were together for 30 years. Wow! Beautiful!

  276.  #276lk on November 29, 2011 at 11:23 am

    LOL @LG 273

    me on a date recently: “Oh, actually I think —– [awkward pause] — oh, sorry, i can’t finish that sentence, haha, that’s way too internal dialogue to say out loud right now — [very awkward pause] — no, actually, that was”

  277.  #277lk on November 29, 2011 at 11:26 am


    yes, & a really great guy i just met recently said to me while we were out, “wow, you make me feel normal” – & not in a sassy, you’resoweird way; just in a way that it’s ok to be legitimately strange.

    poe says strangeness is a necessary element in beauty. if i was not at work & typing a million clicks/minute, i’d look it up for you lovely ladies : ) it’s from Ligeia though so you can find it pretty easy i bet…. let’s see….. no no more words accessible right now – symmetrical – symmetry ? question marks

  278.  #278lk on November 29, 2011 at 11:30 am

    ok had to still not the good way

    “There is no exquisite beauty,” as Poe reminds us, in Ligeia, “without some strangeness in the proportion…”


    It was the radiance of an opium-dream –an airy and spirit-lifting vision more wildly divine than the phantasies which hovered vision about the slumbering souls of the daughters of Delos. Yet her features were not of that regular mould which we have been falsely taught to worship in the classical labors of the heathen. “There is no exquisite beauty,” says Bacon, Lord Verulam, speaking truly of all the forms and genera of beauty, without some strangeness in the proportion.” Yet, although I saw that the features of Ligeia were not of a classic regularity –although I perceived that her loveliness was indeed “exquisite,” and felt that there was much of “strangeness” pervading it, yet I have tried in vain to detect the irregularity and to trace home my own perception of “the strange.”

  279.  #279Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 11:31 am

    276 lk

    Haha! Love it!
    And I can totally relate.

  280.  #280Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 11:37 am

    I just went on this long rant about how much I love my hair and then the post disappeared.

    So I will summarize by saying
    -hair was looking really bad, dry, lots of breakage
    -did some research on how to care for long hair naturally
    -have been doing those things
    -and now it looks and feels amazing
    -and I feel very excited about it!!!!

  281.  #281L.Sweat on November 29, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Rori! Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this article. It is a short one, but really insightful and light. I agree completely with everything you’ve said here, and found myself saying “Yes!” over and over as I read it. Especially the part about the barometer of whether I should stay or go, being if I am able to grow/flourish or not, in the relationship. And him too. Rori… you’re truly a blessing. Thank you again for sharing your wisdom.

  282.  #282Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 11:41 am

    ““There is no exquisite beauty,” as Poe reminds us, in Ligeia, “without some strangeness in the proportion…”

    Ohhhh, yum!

  283.  #283tinque on November 29, 2011 at 11:56 am

    “that chair was uncomfortable – only a cr8zy person would have stayed there ” – there you go, and anyway, what is sanity, and who defines it?

    xxoo Dominique

  284.  #284lk on November 29, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    @280 LG – oh, i’d like to hear more about that : ) my ends are looking bad & i’ve been cutting my own hair for a couple years now but i’m not in the mood to cut right now…

  285.  #285Starla on November 29, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    280 i have long hair too, LG, plz2besharinginformations? 😀

  286.  #286Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    LK: Well, I’ll give you the download of what I learned and did…

    This is coming from the school of thought that is into no shampoo, or being very selective with shampoos, or using conditioner only to wash (CO wash) or using homemade recipes with clay, acv, whatever.

    I remember you mentioning that you wanted to try not using shampoo before so you will probably appreciate this approach. 🙂

    The biggest thing I learned was understanding how protein and moisture affect my hair. Almost all shampoos and conditioners have a form of protein in them but not all hair likes that much protein. This will show up as very brittle hair, that tangles very easily at the ends and can have a sticky feel to it.

    So the first thing I did was cut that out.

    Then I focused on moisture. I think the protein messes up the moisture balance.

    I found a great moisture rich shampoo, Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose. I washed my hair with that. The conditioner does a great job of cleaning it. The key is to rinse, rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.

    That worked really well for a while but then it started to feel to heavy for my hair.

    So then I started experimenting with washing with clay (awesome!) and using shampoo bars. I’m still getting that part of my routine dialed in.

    Another great discovery was rubbing a tiny bit of oil on my hair after I get out of the shower. Most oils are way too heavy for my hair, as it’s very fine.

    I recently discovered some very light oils that don’t weigh it down or make it greasy, Camilla oil (not sure on the spelling) and Argan oil. Both really worked amazing on my hair.

    Oh yes, I feel very excited about it and am happy to share my discoveries! is a great website that I would recommend.

    Also I’m really careful about when and how I comb my hair. If its tangly and feels or sounds like its breaking when I comb it, I stop and either add oil or conditioner so I can comb through easily without breakage. And also I don’t brush it when it’s wet. I think all of that has made a big difference. 🙂

  287.  #287lk on November 29, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    i need to find a way to eat absolutely everything warm – even oranges. will start with oranges. it frightens me & chills me to even imagine eating an orange right now! I really am a cold, cold bxtch lol… see what i just did there? : )

  288.  #288Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I just noticed that this part is unclear…

    “So the first thing I did was cut that out.”
    Meaning I stopped using shampoos and conditioners with protein. I now only use them sparingly, like once a month.

    “I found a great moisture rich shampoo, …that was supposed to say conditioner…I washed my hair with the AO conditioner…didn’t use any shampoo at all.

  289.  #289Mochaberri on November 29, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Re Esteemed – 255: Thank you so much for your vision of my question. Now if I may, play devil’s advocate and I would like feed back from other Sirens as well:

    When we are into a man or men and we give him space to figure things out, whether he wants to be with us or continue this relationship dance end in until he makes his decision, when he comes in and out during this time is he entitled to pick up where he left off in the relationship,i.e., feeling entitled to out time and all our goodness?

  290.  #290Susan on November 29, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    RE: 289: Mochaberri says:

    “When we are into a man or men and we give him space to figure things out, whether he wants to be with us or continue this relationship dance end in until he makes his decision, when he comes in and out during this time is he entitled to pick up where he left off in the relationship,i.e., feeling entitled to out time and all our goodness?”

    IMHO, no. During his absence, we are dating other men, having other experiences and growing as individuals. Just as one can’t step in the same river twice, one cannot pick up exactly where they left off. When this guy is ready to return you you, you might be happily involved or married to someone else. It is a risk he takes by backing away from you. Your job is to make sure your life doesn’t stop when he backs away. A siren may miss a man, but she doesn’t wait for him. Life offers too much to settle for just waiting around for a man to make up his mind.

  291.  #291English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    #255 Brenda

    What do I think?

    I think that was just beautiful.

    Thank you. x

  292.  #292Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    220 Lili – I told him how happy I felt when he invited me to dinner last week but now I felt unimportant (he kept canceling on me).

    I also said I felt confused about where things stood with us and I also felt on edge, sometimes angry and most of all insecure with the lack of certainty.

    We also discussed him saying last week that he would give me what I want. It seems he wasn’t actually “offering” that as a solution but rather listing it as something he “could” do.

    So my email last night was to say that I had misunderstood. I also wanted to know if that wasn’t what he wanted. I told him that I wanted to make decisions based on reality rather than the unknown and that I understood no matter what the answer.

    The bottom line here is that if he wants to live like a single guy that’s fine. And it means I get to live like a single girl too.

    So I will no longer feel guilty about dating other men. But if he’s committed to me, then I’m all his. And he knows what that looks like to me.

    You know, he really is not a good looking guy, but I took one look at him last night and I just wanted to be in his arms. And we had some wonderful cuddles before going on our walk.

    I know he’s giving me the bare minimum because I’ve let him get away with it. But I also know that he knows I could go out there and meet someone new in an instant. I also know he doesn’t want to lose me, but I’m not sure if his freedom means more to him. I’ll be ok if it does but I just need to know so I can move on if I need to.

    I know I’m making this all about him and it’s purely because we’ve been exclusive for so long. I just can’t get right into CDing with all this guilt! So that’s the reason behind my question last night – does he want the single life or not? I’m perfectly ok with either answer because both answers are better than this in between – and both give me some great options! 😉

    Meanwhile D (dude who is unhappy with gf) is coming on strong. Wish he was more my type. But I’m happy to have a beer with him on friday night – it’s not like I have other plans… (TH is going out but doesn’t know that I know).

  293.  #293Daria on November 29, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Feeling crushed and disappointed.

    Friend turned up w CD

    I felt all the stuff I used to feel around getright. And now fears like around another ex. Like if u don’t like me you now go to hating and resentment

    I felt like I was slowly driving the remaining attention away too

    Cd seemed upset. He was like ‘she said she’s scared of me’


    I felt so not important and also important and guilty and awkward.

    My energy in the room seemed to suck out his joy and attention.

    So he’s still tied to me but it seems there’s pain there.

    Meanwhile I talked kinda open and maybe sorta bragged in a way and feel uncared for like Im a boy who goes by the code.

    And I feel all secretly sad.

    I want to call CD right now. I feel so uncomfortable like ‘losing’ his love. Ie attention. But I did Not like how he talked to me. So if I had it back I’d be scared.

    I feel all stuck.

    This reminds me of being around getright and around ex. And then fighting to get their attention by making them jealous w my indifference and independence but slowly it stops working.


    This feels so humiliating and shameful. I don’t really want to talk about it in glad I ann tho.

    I so want ti health is.

    I so want to call CD right now.


    I’m so feeling sad.

    My voices are beating me up that it’s my fault. I love my voices.

    If I call cd I can alleviate this pressure.

    I can heal thus by gently doing something different.

    Moving away from this.

    Ohhh I almost do then I go back.

    I feel so powerfully attracted.


    If I call now ill be in boy mode.




    I want yo acknowledge my feelings and I feel embarrased by them.

    I feel embarrassed that I feel bad, insecure, disappointed, jealous, guilty.

    I love me.

  294.  #294Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    He also did something really sweet for my daughter last night. She’s going to her father’s for a month from tomorrow and TH knows how much she loves computer games.

    So he gave me his Nintendo 3D DS to let her use while she’s away because she mentioned she gets bored at her dads house. Awww!

  295.  #295lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    just now i was like oh i’m so mad & overworked & BLAHHHH whiny baby

    then all of a sudden i was like, OMG! good job ! amazing ! this is the first real one of these i’ve done fully alone : ))) that’s good : )

    also, just was like WTF homeboy at my CDcd… he has not contacted me since SUNDAY NIGHT. i sent him an email yesterday at noon. bxllshxt, is what i say.


    ok, anyway. yes, & it makes him look worse that all my ex boyfriends & all my longlife crushes are all swarming me, bringing me gifts, & he is just up in his mountain cave, all la-di-da… well enough is enough – harumph! lol wow i really cannot do the no-sleep thing again…

    bossman just came by & he thought it was funny that i was me… that sounds stupid but that’s what it was. i really do like that guy more & more every day : ) it warms my little icy heart, really : ))) awwwwwww i really really really like him!!!

    anyways: yes, punishing CDcd. lol, no, just kidding. i know i just met that guy & anyway I’d be like this bxtch is cr8zy if i first met me… he is nice, but yes, i do wish he would call me. OHHHH maybe he is getting my saucy email hints that i don’t like to email him (though i know his phone is bad in the mountains…i’ve been sending 1-sentence responses to his nice emails & i basically just let the conversation die)… so maybe he really wants to call me, but doesn’t want to lay it on after so many double-emails, etc…… & also, maybe he is really busy, so he knows we can’t get together soon… also also also, possibly… ok anyways, yes, i think i’ll go up when he invites me up & i think i’ll want the very good hot food & also the movie that i missed & also NO CUDDLING with the dog on the couch. yes, cuddling, yes cuddling dog, yes cuddling couch. no cuddling dog on the couch. i can say that lol

  296.  #296lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    i think that maybe when people have affairs at work, it is really kind of like stockholm syndrome LOL that is funny shxt is someone writing this down?!

  297.  #297Wildflower on November 29, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Hi Ladies,

    I have a question. It has been a while since I’ve posted but I have been reading and miss you all! Anyway, this man whom I’ve had a fun, sexual relationship with in the past asked me to go to dinner this Friday. Now the thing is he and I have not done anything sexual for the past 8 months. Lately, I have decided that I am only dating men who are serious about marriage. Also, as of the past month I am sexually exclusive with one man. So….long story short…. do I say to this man who wants to take me to dinner (before the dinner) that I am only dating men who are serious about marriage and I am sexually exclusive with another man, or do I assume that dinner means “dinner” and deal with anything that comes up as it comes up? As of now that is how I’m handling it. What do you all think? Thanks ladies 🙂

  298.  #298Aurora Girl on November 29, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    297 Wildflower
    I would stay in the moment and go for dinner, be open about it with your sexual partner if he asks. If the time comes when Mr. Dinner guy starts to make advances you can tell him how you feel right then and there….if you are not interested in sex because you’re with someone else you can be open about it…tell him how you feel and your boundaries……I would take it as dinner means dinner.

    I think it’s awesome that you are so clear about it already!

    Have fun with it!

  299.  #299English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I only have 3 days left in my job and today I heard such racism and crudity from my colleagues that I feel sick to my stomach and don’t know if I can go on….what to do?

    Do I just pretend like everything is OK when by my standards it really is not, or do I go to the doctor tomorrow and get a note to prevent me going back there for the last 3 days?

  300.  #300Daria on November 29, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Love the tiger in the candy bar cage

  301.  #301Daria on November 29, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    I feel so heartache I feel like I can’t stand it. I’m missing cd.

    Should I call him?

    If I don’t call him I’ll just keep on feeling all achy in my heart and anticipating next time I see him.


  302.  #302English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    And I did speak up in a little wimpy way, but it was not enough I know that, I am not MLK or Ghandi, I really cannot deal with this type of thing……… is making me feel ill.

  303.  #303Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 2:38 pm


    RE: #299 – How about, “Ewww! I feel awful hearing such racism and crudity! I feel sick to my stomach when I hear such disrespect.”

    Let those feeling messages work for you! Who cares what they think? They sure don’t seem to care what you think. It’s just three more days…to practice feeling messages in a real world situation. I bet you will be surprised if you say something like that out loud!!!

  304.  #304Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Ok I feel better now. Thank you FW, you were right about gettin out of my comfort zone. I put some make up on and I am going to this date!

    Thank you all for your support and answers! xoxo

  305.  #305lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    canceled my meeting. luckily, the head of the board had actually just contacted me to give me a scanned version of what i put into the time capsule when i was 14. LUCKILY, since i’m still involved in that organization, on the board, whatever…….. it was so JOYFUL hahaha to open her email & read an absolute rant about MTV, gender issues, my best friend & who we had crushes on, plus my predictions for the future of a few select humans… most delightfully a little jab at one of my actual HEROES, suggesting to him that he finally turn to Rogaine to combat hair loss. the word “strippers” was used twice. Yes, i did include the last name of my crush. WHAT KIND OF CHILD DOES THIS? why do i now have to deal with my 14-year-old self’s grievances???? hahahahahhahaha humbug : ) so embarrassing, but too funny to wish it was some other way. & actually, now i really feel that continuity of self… & the separation as well… i really dig that 14-year-old kid with her sass & her sauce & her flippancy : ) truly, what a thing to say when you KNOW for a FACT that other people will read that… & probably in a public forum haha… whatever, GUARANTEED that shxt will get censored. pretty sure not a single line of mine would pass any sort of even shoddy review process. here’s hoping they burn it!! lol

    omg i’m still kind of dying laughing that i thought it was fine to rant about gender issues, strippers, & insult peoples’ physical appearances… in a TIME CAPSULE. lol…. man that is really too funny.

    kind of like me blogging my feelings right now – HELLO this is not privacy!!! oh, sweet lk : )

    oh & also, sorry, smaller lk – i know that 14 is not a child. i know that even children are humans. i know that the passions & pains of a child are absolutely as strong as those of an adult – unalloyed, undiluted, too, by experience or memory – so perhaps stronger. yes, sweet girl. continue.

  306.  #306English Woman on November 29, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Do I just go in there for my last 3 days and pretend I am OK and all is just fine (stuffing down my feelings) or do I do the whistle blower thing on the lot of them?

    I feel ill and sick and tired and soooo over the lot of them and I don’t want to deal with this negative
    sh%t and they are sooo bloody stupid and naive and judgemental though of course not when the boss is around, he has no idea. They probably think of me as some old interfering busy body, some pathetic old person, so icy cold and not with it……….BUT I am not and I am not prepared to sit and listen to their racist, crude sh**e…………..arrrghhhhhhhhh what to do??????/

  307.  #307Aurora Girl on November 29, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    I worked in a correctional facility for over 20 years and heard it all…..from staff and inmates. I was happy that i tried hard to be where you are….not becoming desensitized to it…but setting a good example, putting up a vibe shield so it didn’t download onto me and doing my work. Can you put up a sort of vibe shield by telling yourself it’s their sh*t and not yours….that you can finish the job and not their toxicity affect you? That you are only one person and it’s not your job to change them anyway….only be your awesome authentic self?

    bet you can!

  308.  #308Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 2:44 pm


    RE: #289 – You’re welcome! According to Rori, yes, in the sense that we are serving the relationship best to welcome him when he shows up.

    For example, Rori told about a previous client, Mia, who was like glue all over her man, and he wouldn’t commit. Rori had her change her vibe: her house decorations and arrangement, what she wore, and of course work on her internal self. And she had her get wrapped up in her own passions: painting, reading, etc.

    So instead of her calling him up every night and hanging out at his house while he ignored her, she stayed home and involved herself in activities she enjoyed. After about 2 weeks, he came looking for her, curious about her new vibe. She was laying there calmly reading a book. She said hi, smiled, and patted the bed next to her for him to join her.

    That was the turning point of her relationship. Of course there were more trials, but it had a happy ending! What do you think?

  309.  #309Daria on November 29, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    I’m not gona chase after him. I’m gona feel and heal my heartache and my tummy squeeze and I feel so sad.

    And thus is all healing and amazing things are coming tho I like this one.

    And I feel sad that my girl talked to me in a way that felt bad and again I felt triggered and I feel humiliated for feeling that way and I feel ashamed and I love all my feelings.

  310.  #310Daria on November 29, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    I feel sad and I think I’m not letting myself feel it. I feel sad. And powerless. And ashamed. And worthless. And not lovable, or important or respectable or even attractive. And I feel sad.

    I love my sadness.

    I want cd back.

    What if I just text him.

    He’s not a good match I like being catered to.

    I love me.

  311.  #311Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 2:49 pm


    RE: #291 – Thank you! 🙂

  312.  #312lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    @Lizka 304

    Oh, good!!! I bet you look pretty!!!! have fun : )))

  313.  #313Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    English Woman,

    RE: #306 – Do you work at a prison, too, like Aurora Girl? If it were me, prison or no prison, I would be a whistle blower. If you are no longer there, why does it matter? will you be doing a different line of work when you move? I could never work in an environment like that. It is so important to be in a healthy work environment. I love you!

  314.  #314lk on November 29, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    @Daria 310

    “I love my sadness.

    I want cd back.

    What if I just text him.

    He’s not a good match I like being catered to.”

    This is really yummy to me – I like it : ) thanks for sharing & i feel sad that you feel sad but I feel really really really happy & inspired that you are sounding so good feeling sad : )))

  315.  #315Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    EW – thank god you only have three days left there! Like someone else said, using FMs to express your distaste is probably the best you can do – and thankfully it is only 3 days! xxx

  316.  #316Queenbee on November 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    RE: 29

    Hi Dominique! Thanks for your comment. I feel supported.

    I probably need to manifest this one… I do believe it on some level. I’m feeling worn out and tired with ‘manifesting’. I know… it’s not supposed to be that way.

    I’m terribly ambitious and I recently noticed some fear of success holding me back. In relationships as well. Then it’s kinda blurry… like is this the relationship for me? Am I just keeping my standards too high? But in the end, I feel it deep down inside – as in what would work/ feel good to me, and where I would be settling.

    I’ve never really had a good, long, real relationship. Definitely, a lot of it has been me… I’ve never really been ‘ready’. I’m almost ready now. If I met someone good, I could be ready….

    I’m still attracting married men… eek! Some single (not completely unattached)… but that just lingers in the friend zone and I know they are not the one for me.

    I get what Rori says about giving a man a chance… though there are certain things I just want for my life. I don’t want to have a sad, complicated, overworked and under-loved life.

    I believe when we are children, we don’t really get to choose. Life just happens to us and our circumstances just are. We have a choice as adults to change our lives and determine our level of happiness.

    This is what I really want. To determine my level of happiness and live in a peaceful, friendly and safe atmosphere in the home with a man. That wasn’t always my childhood.

    So anyway… where to find this man?

    Most of my female friends are single and no children. I know at least six. We are all between 30 and 35. I don’t mind a man in late 30s (36 – 39), those might be single… but I also need financially stable in a big way. Anything else, just would not suit me…. I know myself and my potential, where I’m headed and I need a man who is compatible with me, really gets me and can let me be free to live my fullest self-expression.

    The boring part of all of this is that I now feel lonely, unmotivated in my work and getting nowhere with men.

    I know women who reached their 40s and were still single… then it just kinda levels off right there. I still want to have children….

    I feel frustrated feeling this way.

    Any thoughts Sirens?


  317.  #317Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    I emailed TH this morning to thank him for the game he lent my daughter (she asked me to thank him) and to acknowledge how sweet his gesture was (men want to be acknowledged and appreciated right?).

    No reply yet but I’m not sure if he’s even at work. I’ll leave him alone now to process my question.

    After listening to most of modern siren yesterday I realise that giving up his single life, his freedom and life as he knows it, is a big thing for a guy. They’ll do it for the right woman but only if they want to.

    Although I have no idea what his response to last night’s question will be, I feel calm and happy – because I know I’m ok with either answer. Although I know I’ll be sad if he wants to maintain his single life, I will finally have some certainty in my life!

    I have plans for both Friday and Saturday nights now too, so single or not, I’ll be having a fun weekend!! 🙂

  318.  #318Izzy on November 29, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Laughing Goddess

    I feel so connected right now.

    You said you didn’t want children, well, I’m 32 and I really don’t feel like having children. That feeling just doesn’t come. And I feel so different and like there is something wrong with me because it seems like I should want to have children…

    Also, when you said:

    “Well, I feel best thinking that Demi has grown and expanded from this happening and is now feeling even more love for herself. And maybe this contrast has helped her to be even more clear on what she wants. ”

    That was exactly what happened to me when my ex fell for another girl. Three months later, he called (it was my birthday) and I told him “I fell in love with myself again”. I was already dating someone else. And I’m still dating the same guy, it’s been six months now. And I am a lot more clear about what I want.

    The growth I experienced after the break up and that I’m still experiencing now with my new man is just unbelievable.

  319.  #319Izzy on November 29, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Men come, then men go…. Another pool of men come, and then they go… That’s just how it is. If this one goes, than another one will come.

    That feels relaxing. 🙂

  320.  #320Queenbee on November 29, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    I don’t know what I felt about seeing HAman after 7 months at the event last Friday. I totally knew he was going to be there… It felt like I was getting ready for a date with him before I left home.

    So his messages to me were:
    1) He’s been thinking about me
    2) He wrote me a long email, which he never sent
    3) I look great
    4) He’s happy to see me

    I didn’t say anything about anything and just offered general feeling messages.

    He was there with some woman so I was like ‘yuck, gross’ deep down inside, but then I feel fine at the same time… it’s like whatever.

    Perhaps it’s my analytical mind… that if he was so sure I was going to be there then why did he show up with that woman. Makes it impossible for me to connect with a man who has his hands full. That’s just the way I feel. Sirens, any thoughts about that?

    Then I think we have an age gap. I’m 33 he’s 41.

    He has an issue with me living at home (in my parents house)… though logistically it works out perfectly for me at this time.

    I don’t believe a man should determine anything about my professional life including where I live, because it is a decision I am making based on my professional life.

    He’s just not the one for me, if he has an issue dating me coz I still live at home. Looks like he’s trying to make it easy and convenient for himself.

    Makes me angry, coz he was with that woman on a Friday night, and when we were dating he never took me out on the weekend….ok, rarely.

    It got to a point, I felt so left out and not special. I don’t think there’s any way of healing that… at least not with this man.

    Granted, yes, I did have a crappy last relationship and I do notice areas where I still feel traumatized and things show up. Ok, so, but I feel like this man did not give me enough time to open up or whatever.

    It’s kinda like he just wants it to all happen. But hey, dude, some of us need TLC and nurturing.

    Damnit, I feel so angry at him, coz I did like him. He was sexy and hot and I felt amazing in his presence. Except when I felt left out and hurt….

    So then, that’s that. He couldn’t take his eyes off me at Friday’s event.

    Anyway, he has not contacted me. Yuck, I know he is thinking about me like crazy, coz I can feel it.

    I felt it 7 months ago … at first I thought it’s just me…. but I noticed, no, it must be him. Finally, I calmed down after 2 months and began to feel better.

    My friend said to me Friday night that I still ‘love’ him. That feels very confusing. I definitely do not love him. I don’t know him well enough and I cannot love someone who makes me feel left out and not special… or rather, when I feel that way… but I do feel a bit blamey.

    One thing I’ve noticed from CDing the past few months is that men totally know it when they are treating a woman like crap. It’s a woman’s duty to set the boundaries or they just continue to get what they want and give so little.

    The man definitely knew he was not asking me out for weekends.

    Damn him! It’s that kinda lukewarm love/ attraction thing he feels for me and he’s just waiting or hoping I’ll be really easy with him. Perhaps he knows he can’t handle it more than that… who knows…???

    But anyway, I didn’t even feel so ‘fresh’ after s3x with him. It definitely changed the ph of my vajay. It’s taken months and now just a light hint.

    My friend says there are some men who you can sleep with and the odour is a bit off after. OMG!! What tha’ h3ll?? Does anyone know anything about this? Does it mean we are not compatible… coz hey, I would feel nervous having s3x with him again after it’s taken me months to feel somewhat better.

    Perhaps that’s what I really want to say to him: “Dude, my pussy had a funky smell after s3xing you… ”

    LOL! …AAARGH! I feel louzy, angry, afraid, worried, sad and concerned if I end up alone 🙁

    I feel lost and clueless with men. Perhaps I need all of Rori’s programmes. I definitely need Reconnect.

    I feel happy that Rori has all these programmes, but I feel sad like ‘am I that bad’, is that how clueless I am and what if I never really learn it all…. or whatever….

    It’s a bit scary. Then balancing the masculine energy and the feminine energy in work and social life. I’ve decided to go with my masculine at work. It’s like whatever… I try what I can… but mostly I just don’t get into conversations any more… I work smart…. that’s very feminine 🙂

    Yeah, being authentically me is truly important for me.

    Gosh, I hope any of this makes sense. I’m feel better posting instead of hiding out, burying my head in the sand pretending not to feel.

    I’d rather lay it bare.


  321.  #321Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    I just had my free session with Emily VanHorn, who was a guest posting on here a few threads back. She is really excellent, and I intend to schedule some more sessions with her when I get stable financially. I need to heal from post traumatic stress disorder from something that happened 6 years ago.

  322.  #322Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Today was stressful. I was trying to get assistance for rent, electric, and heat. I was interviewed at the assistance office, filled out forms, gathered documentation, made copies, and mailed it out.

    All the while thinking about R and wishing I could have a chiropractic adjustment. Time to go play with kittens and take a nap.

  323.  #323Ella on November 29, 2011 at 5:03 pm


    I would like to think about better things to use to clean my hair.

    My scalp is quite flaky at the moment and I have made this habit of scratching at it constantly when I am feeling anxious or disrtacted without even realising, although it is not itchy.

    I am going to let ideas about alternate ways for cleaning my hair sit with me for a while… so far I like the idea of conditioner only and I still feel resistant worrying that it won’t be clean…

  324.  #324Lilybelly on November 29, 2011 at 5:12 pm



    Your reference to “Good night, Moon” brought back a rush of wonderful memories of me reading that to my son when he was young. I’ve read it 1000 times if I’ve read it once and it always ended in giggles and snuggles.

    Thank you for that!

  325.  #325Butterfly wings on November 29, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    OMG! It’s 9am and I’ve already received 5 texts from D!!

    Argh! Now why couldn’t that be TH doing that huh? 🙂

    I’m not sure if you’ve all noticed but all this waiting around is driving me crazy!!!

    Going shopping at lunch time to find a dress that doesn’t look like a potato sack – that’ll take my mind off things!

  326.  #326Starla on November 29, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Ian Flemming wrote a James Bond short story on the same concept Rori writes about in this article, and he called it “Quantum of Solace.”

    Very different story than the movie with the same title.

  327.  #327Starla on November 29, 2011 at 5:34 pm


    I said my sirens don’t leanforwarddance they just pull up their pants and, do the waterwheel

    now lean back

    lean back

    lean back

    lean back

  328.  #328Starla on November 29, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    3 posts in a row. Hat trick.

    I feel anxious and overwhelmed. I had to bring work home tonight.

    I think the anxiety is from drinking too much coffee and not getting enough sleep ever.

    What if I went to bed earlier tonight and got 8 hours of sleep?

    I always feel like i’m wasting my life if I go to sleep too early.

  329.  #329Mel on November 29, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Hi Izzy!

    Whoo-hoo for bonding!

    I am also 32… also don’t really want kids of my own. I LOVE kids… but I’d rather be a cool aunt/big sister/godparent/part-time step-parent. Sometimes I think that it’s selfish of me…and then I start trying to convince myself to have kids. But when I really think about it, I’m happy to be a loving influence in the lives of OTHER PEOPLE’s kids. That’s how I feel happiest. Now that I’m single again, at least the incessant questioning from friends and family has stopped! Yay for that! 🙂

  330.  #330Mel on November 29, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Hey Starla! Can I still be on team lean-back? 😉

  331.  #331Starla on November 29, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Yes, Mel, can I? hehe

  332.  #332Mel on November 29, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Yep! “Crack-fix” has resurfaced… funny how that works. Not sure I want to involve myself with his addictive sexiness again though…

  333.  #333Lilybelly on November 29, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    There is brilliance in leaning back. And power and femininity and love and respect of oneself. Best tool in the box.

  334.  #334Lilybelly on November 29, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    I wish I had learned it six years ago. Heck no, ten years ago. I would have saved myself a ton of heartache on those two loves.

    Better late than never.

  335.  #335Starla on November 29, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    You men sexy sarcastic?

    Fortunately my CF is stepping up all the time, but it still feels like crackcrackcrack.

    This week he is rubberbanding, as I think Rori calls it, and I feel glad cuz as much as I love smoking crack rocks, I’m not trying to overdose (and die a relationshipdeath).

    It still feels scary that I’m not sure when the next time I’ll see him will be. He said last night that he would see me soon, but he hasn’t decided when yet. I feel pretty confident to just lean back and enjoy the Starla time.

    We’ve been seeing each other almost every day (his doing) at least a couple of weeks now but whenever we see each other, we can’t pull ourselves apart and we stay together for far longer than we should… I feel excited to develop a relationship where we have that level of passion, but with a bit more balance for our own lives.

    That, or it will never change and we’ll always be hopelessly attracted to each other. I wonder if I lived with someone like that, if it would be this hugely overwhelming thing where we’re constantly on each other, or if it would level out to something less intense but equally satisfying. Maybe the intensity would have more room to stretch out, and it would be like a cozy blanket over anything, rather than being locked in a sauna suffering from heat stroke.

    Anyway, this feels like a good time to take a few days apart and re-center. And CD!!

  336.  #336Izzy on November 29, 2011 at 6:06 pm


    Have you tried sulfate free shampoo?

    Or castor oil with a drop of rosemary essential oil? It is natural and jhelps clearing the scalp. And leaves your hair really shiny…

  337.  #337Lilybelly on November 29, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    I had a date last night and told him that I don’t want to not take care of myself again emotionally. He was awed by that. The molecules on his face changed when I said that. He totally changed his demeanor and it was amazing.

    It was almost like an epiphany of sorts for me. Like, duh! Why did it take you this long to learn that, Lilybelly?

    Why ask why? Just revel in where you are compared to where you were in Feb.

    Lilybelly spaming has come to a halt now.

  338.  #338Starla on November 29, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    *You mean sexy sarcastic

    sorry 4 the typo Mel

  339.  #339Starla on November 29, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Ella, rinsing the scalp with a turn of olive oil and a dozen shakes of tea tree oil mixed in a cereal bowl full of water treats my flaky scalp. Do it every other day or so depending on what your skin is like and after a few times you’ll be all better, i bet.

  340.  #340luzydel on November 29, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    so going back to CDing and had some emails at ok cupid once I changed my profile picts. wearing something read. Now I just want to go out and flirt before getting involved with someone. I tend to be too romantic and once I feel I really like someone I stop thinking of other men…this time I need to lay back more and take my time.

  341.  #341luzydel on November 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Now a guy has sent me like 5 emails in a row and I have not being able to respond…that feels too intense and creepy…but good time to practice with a feeling message…be right back lol

  342.  #342Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 6:36 pm


    RE: #323 – Hi there! About hair, you have curly hair, right? I recommend the book, “Curly Girl”. They explain why curly hair is more sensitive, and they recommend a low-sudzing shampoo. They also recommend one day washing it, then the next just letting the water run on your scalp while you go through your hair and rub your scalp with your fingers. That way it is not stripping away the natural oils every day – just once every other day. I have found that high quality shampoos are worth it. My favorite is Nexxus Therappe Shampoo. Do you have Nexxus there? I have been washing mine only every other day, and it works well. Rinsing it with water only keeps it from ever looking greasy, and my scalp is not dry and flaky.

  343.  #343Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 6:38 pm


    RE: #339 – I feel curious what a “turn” of olive oil is? And I wonder if that leaves your hair looking greasy?

  344.  #344lk on November 29, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I just decided i want to be really pretty : ) hahaha

    Ok, i’m going to go be pretty, starting now….NOW!

    yayyyy lk did it

    i told excd about my leg hairs & wanted him to touch them… i touched his & they were softer than mine, but i think mine will be that soft in a few years (LOL) yes, i’m committed to this i think.

    anyway, then i said something really mean… i said, well it’s actually really good too because it is axshole repellant haha… laughing, but he was confused so I was like, you KNOW that no guy is going to touch these legs if they’re just out to get into bed with me LOL… but…. i think ex probably thinks that comment was kind of targeted at him… because of all that confusion…. Sorry! didn’t mean to imply anything, was just being myself : ) & yes, i do like you : ) & if i was ever mad – which, yes, i was – i’m not now. & if you’ve done “bad” or “wrong” i’ve forgiven you entirely & love you dearly as though you were my child.

    on a lighter note, happened to get double-emails from my little sqw & ht both of them! haha, feel loved. in particular i feel i have made sqw more at ease & he has said he’ll call me next week (actually named the day lol) so i hope he’s more at rest now & not so nervous & scared. but he has other problems.. oh well… : ) oh….. yes had a dream about sqw’s mother…. someone saying, no, you can’t replace her? or something? or we don’t need that? or something? a little angry maybe – but i don’t think directed at me…………. ok anyways, yes & ht of course he is a gem.

    i like now that i’m so calm, i haven’t even actually read all the way through the emails haha… though i’ve had time… just not super urgent feeling : )

  345.  #345Starla on November 29, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    turn = pouring it once in a short circle. like a turn of the wrist.

    you’ll want to wash your hair after! super greasy

  346.  #346Tiffany on November 29, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Orna – I just read your reply to my post in #156…Thank you!! That felt so good to read. 🙂

    I feel cared about that you took the time to respond.

    And it gives me a lot of courage.

    Thank you 🙂

  347.  #347Tiffany on November 29, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Mel!!! 🙂 It is so good to see you on here! (well, “see”)

    I was just recently wondering what you were up to…figured you were off getting engaged to your Architect or something 😉

    That is so funny about sexy sarcastic. That gives me hope! I don’t know what kind of hope – I guess the kind of hope that means guys don’t really disappear “permanently.” And when they come back, we can decide if we want them or not..;p

    That sounds awesome. And anyway, if you and architect aren’t engaged yet – no reason he can’t be a “cd” if only casually. I would think….

    Oh, and I have more on my “architect,” btw…

  348.  #348Tiffany on November 29, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Izzy #319 – that *does* feel relaxing…thank u:)

  349.  #349Starla on November 29, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    awwww cf called

    i wasn’t expecting that.

    wowwie zowwie it feels good when they just consistently step up

  350.  #350Lizka on November 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Circular dating rocks!! I feel hapoy I went to the date with C.A-CD after all. I practiced the tools, I learned about myself, and in bonus, an he was kind of cute and pretty smart! And…. Made me forgot all my sad feelings I had about E since yesterday! Houray for circular dating!

    Finaly I feel sireny again!


  351.  #351Emerson on November 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    hmm..yes, some men do reappear don’t they…and it’s interesting when they do, to say the least.

    But….I have also had it where they do indeed disappear permanently.

  352.  #352Starla on November 29, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    I feel embarrassed that I said wowwie zowwie

  353.  #353Starla on November 29, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    I had 1 guy truly poof on me, and I would have poofed on me too=/

    we were dating for a year and i will never get back with him because he just poofed after a year, but i don’t blame him for poofing. I’ll still never feel the same about him romantically.

    but who knows…he may un-poof one of these days. it’s been 11 months since I last talked to him. Wow!! I have been through so much this year.

    I am glad he poofed. There were better matches out there for me.

  354.  #354LILI 41 on November 29, 2011 at 7:56 pm


    Myyy, BW, thanks for sharing.
    that conversation is exactly how it’s been w me and D. He’s been taking it soooo slow.
    He’s very insecure with his decisionmaking.

    What made him insecure about me was my coldness and holding back during the 1st few months.
    When the relationship starts a certain way, it’s hard to switch it around after.

    Then it was my anger at his behaviour in reaction to me. Constantly going out to drink w his buddies, flirting w other women, putting me last.
    Right now, he’s really impressed on the work I’ve done to get to know my anger, and the deep feelings it covers.
    He loved hearing about my self discoveries.
    I feel a different vibe from him.
    I’m focusing alot more on myself and my feelings and less on him (still forcing myself on that one).
    He has been moving in closer, as though to witness my evolution.
    Me getting closer to myself seems to be what is drawing him closer to me.
    I hadn’t made him feel safe to move close since the beginning.
    Babysteps. I’m taking my time, 1 day at a time, and 1 moment at a time.
    I had a great weekend w him, we’ll see what’s next, 1 moment at a time.

    I hope my sharing helps to inspire you as yours inspires mine.

  355.  #355Starla on November 29, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    poofing probably isn’t an accurate word. He IM’d and said it’s over, THEN poofed. He lives 1 mile away from me lol.

    Oh well, I was CDing but then I just rebounded from that hurt into a very unhealthy relationship.

    Interesting, Starla… now tell me about your childhood…

  356.  #356Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 8:19 pm


    “so far I like the idea of conditioner only and I still feel resistant worrying that it won’t be clean”

    I had the same worries and it works surprisingly well. I mostly wash with conditioner and only use shampoo once in a while when I need it.

    Another option is to just rinse with water. Personally, I have to use conditioner or else my hair gets too tangly.

    I find that it also works better if I dilute the conditioner with water. I squirt a bit of conditioner in an old shampoo container and add some warm water and shake it up well and then rinse rinse rinse…and rinse some more.

    I feel sooo excited about hair right now! 🙂

  357.  #357Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Izzy: I feel connected too. 🙂

    I loved hearing your story about how your breakup inspired growth and led you to the relationship you have now. yum!

    I only recently started to feel the desire to kids. I always really liked them and got along well with them but just didn’t have the urge to have my own. I feel it now even though I also feel resistant because it would impact some of my passions like playing drums.

    And I feel a little nervous about my age. A little..I feel confident that I still have some time. Ideally I would wait for another year or so. My sweetie mentions that he is ready to have one now. Sooo….we’ll see.

    The age thing feels touchy for me. I feel super healthy and I trust in my ability to manifest. I know that there are plenty of women who have had children in their forties. At the same time I still hear a voice in the bad of my mind saying that my age is an issue…Or will be an issue soon.

    And all this feels so weird because, like you, I didn’t really have the desire before.

    I feel really confident that we will make great parents. My sweetie is super nurturing and had some great skills at caring for people. He takes great care of the me and the dogs. Sometimes I feel worried about finances, as he’s not super super driven in that dept. He would rather spend time with his family. Don’t get me wrong, he’s financially stable. I just have some story in my head that a man has to be a workaholic. Dad was a workaholic, and all of the main exes have been. The fact that he isn’t brings of feelings of uncomfort in me, even though I really want a man who cares about me more than work.

    Ahhhhh, it feels really great to talk this out. Thank you!

  358.  #358tenny on November 29, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    OMG!! CD Assertive is giving me feeling messages over the phone and asking me how I feel!!!

  359.  #359confused on November 29, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    I commented earlier today and now that im back from a long day of work/ school I feel so happy and suprized by the nice comments thanks ESTEEMED, TINQUE and LK:)!
    so much to say first off Tinque to clarify my confusion is that Im not certain if this man is just very interested and forward, or if hes a red flag/desperate creepy type…the reason I say is because i feel strange with the experience maybe its good judgement or just that its different from other experiences. Ill state an example i didnt say before … I texted him if he plays for other groups other than the church group (he plays guitar). I asked because it was just a way to get to know him, I also play an instrument and I told him how fun it would be if we played in a group together…he said and I quote “dont you want to worry about our relationship first?”- I just met this guy! wow…ok so theres an example. but I definitely agree just to express my feelings to him and just be safe also suggested by LK thanks.
    Esteemed thanks also for what you said. yea the mom comment was weird but actually the “I will occupy your heart” comment (he doesnt even know my last name I dont think) is even more strange. I feel mixed because its quite romantic but he hasnt gotten to know me yet lol. I agree that the best things in life take time and require patience and growth…like a flower:) if you pour a bucket a water so fast it can ruin it, no water will kill it, but just enough sun and water is the best…wow i feel inspired hehe. I tend to develop slowly lol thats why i develop feelings for my guy friends because the dating pressure is not there, theres comfortability to open up, and genuine trust and crushes develop on both sides many times…however that can also be confusing lol. What all three of you said in common and whats posted so much in the blog is to always be honest with feelings so ill stick to that and practice with him and see what happens…anyway feel free to share more ideas thanks everyone.

  360.  #360Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    I am having a challenging time posting on here lately. My internet locks up often when I do. And I feel bad because I don’t reply to people’s messages sometimes. And then I feel guilty because I don’t want people to think I don’t value their responses to me. And I intend on replying but the posts get lost in the shuffle.

    And this is an ongoing thing for me, feeling bad because I don’t reply to posts or emails people send.

    I would like to be easy on myself about this and trust that people know its nothing personal.

    And I feel so excited that soon I will have high-speed Internet and a lot of these issues will be resolved. And still, I want to reserve the right tO respond when the time is right for me, rather than always feeling this internal pressure to respond.

    I love me

  361.  #361Emerson on November 29, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    360 LG it just happend to me…I posted a long thing and it went pooooff….lol

  362.  #362Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Awesome article called “Fertility after Forty” for anyone who may be interested.

    Also, I feel open to adoption if that’s what needs to happen. And maybe even being a foster parent at some point in my life.

    Everything’s gonna work out just fine LG. no need to worry. 🙂

  363.  #363confused on November 29, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    LG I feel moved by what you wrote about worrying about responses on time. Mostly the theme of it because I also feel like I try respond to calls/texts/ emails on time in order not to offend anyone. I feel even anxiety when I dont I feel rude, uncomfortable, bad for, nervous, when I dont like when Im in the underground trains here in NY and I havent responded to a text only can when Im out of the train it can be a one hour commute sometimes! I dont know maybe Im sensitive when I dont get quick responses and thats why I project what i would possibly feel to others just a thought. I feel pressure and the need to get the response done and overwith…sigh I just gotta breathe and feel the moment/ the present.

  364.  #364Laughing Goddess on November 29, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Link for the article I mentioned above.

    I just did some research and lots of women are giving birth later in life. It’s become a trend!

    And there are some possible complications yet I trust in myself.

    I feel so empowered! I can do anything.

    Wow! This is really a breakthru for me!!!

    I might really be ready for kids! Wow wow wow!

    I feel inspired to take better care of myself and keep my fertility in mind when making choices.

    I feel excited, nervous, mind-blown,

    This could really happen

    And I finally have a great man who is totally on board and at the place in his life where he is ready…


    Is this really my life? I’m having a hard time believing it.

  365.  #365Starla on November 29, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    My acupuncturist helps 40+ year old women get pregnant naturally. It’s amazing. I think infertility increasing with age is a definite reality, but this idea that a woman is powerless against this is a myth. Of course there is the ultimate inevitability of menopause, but so much contributes to infertility that is in our control, such as diet and lifestyle. These are lifestyle changes, though, and require serious commitment.

    I bet pharmaceutical companies and medical clinics make a killing off of Western infertility.

  366.  #366Esteemed on November 29, 2011 at 9:34 pm


    RE: #359 – Welcome! I am glad it resonated with you! I really like what you wrote here:

    I agree that the best things in life take time and require patience and growth…like a flower:) if you pour a bucket a water so fast it can ruin it, no water will kill it, but just enough sun and water is the best…wow i feel inspired hehe.”

    Perfect analogy! I will remember that! I just love visualizations, and that is a big reason Rori’s tools work so well for me. My relationship is a garden that needs not too much water…just the right amount!

  367.  #367Rori Raye on November 29, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    LG – I so get what you’re saying about the guilt and feeling bad – and that’s HUGE if you’ll start to notice that more often and NOT let it run you! Guilt, shame, feeling bad – this is what we’re taught. And it’s all a lie. It doesn’t exist. It has no meaning. If you would like to get “spiritual” with me on this…I do not believe that guilt and shame are part of the “plan.” They’re excuses we all use to not take responsibility for running our own lives, making our own choices, and this all happened to each of us long, long ago and become a habit. Let’s unwind this habit, everyone. Say NO to guilt, and YES to PLEASURE!!! Love, Rori

  368.  #368Rori Raye on November 29, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    ooooo – I like this “wash with conditioner” thing – my hairdresser told me to do that long ago – and I sort of listened, but didn’t really get with it. Now I will! Love, Rori

  369.  #369Tiffany on November 29, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    So, Mel – in case you’ve missed it, I’ve been referring to my Architect guy as “K1.” That is because I had two guys with K names contact me at almost the same time. I had first dates with them on the same day. Etc.

    Long story short, I communicated with them both over the next week, which was Thanksgiving week. In truth, I think I ended up “favoriting” the architect – K1 – a little bit. I liked the fact that he’s an architect. I found it very sexy. Plus, he’s a little bit religious (not my religion, but nothing incompatible, either;) and he’s a vegetarian. Aaaaand he was a really good kisser.

    But after one week of dating, talking on the phone, and a very nice after-Thanksgiving hanging out, he seemed to withdraw. Well, he didn’t just seem to. He actually told me that he was having a weird feeling about seeing me. (I actually felt it before he told me, only I attributed it to my own irritability.) It was nice that he was honest with me. Only I have no idea what shifted between Thursday and Friday to bring about that change.

    My best guess was that it had been because he had wanted to cook with me on Friday, and I had told him that I wanted to do that another night. I wanted to go out Friday, and some other reasons. But mainly – I figured later – it felt very intimate. Like too much too soon or something. Though I never got to say this to him.

    He had suggested he might want to see me Saturday night, after I went out with my friends, but he never called me. And that’s okay, because it almost sounded like booty-call time to me. (not so good)

    had one brief text with him Sunday and nothing since.

    Meanwhile, K2 has been VERY sweet…He’s been texting me every day. Multiple times a day. He calls me, and we have long(ish) talks on the phone. He says he misses me, and he likes to be around me. We talked about sex, and he said he was nervous because he likes me so much. How cute is that??

    Anyway. So we’ll see.

    I figured, maybe K1 looked good, in a lot of ways – and he FELT good, too – but in the end, maybe he just wasn’t right for me. Maybe he had too much of that “familiar” thing going on.

    K2 doesn’t feel quite as good to me, at least on the kissing front (not terrible, just not fantastic). But on the other hand, I can feel and see how much he likes me, and that is just sooo sweet. So I’m enjoying it.

    And the epilogue to the story….Just for kicks, I went onto the dating site where K1 (actually both of them) contacted me from, and checked out his profile. When he wrote to me, he was new at it and hadn’t written anything about himself. When I checked again, he had written a lot about the kind of woman he was looking for an – wouldn’t you know it, he sounded like he was describing me! Not only that, it was some of the ways in which he described me *to me.* So I’m sure that I’m not imagining things.

    Haha. Maybe I helped him get clearer on what he wants;) And maybe, after some time of dating other women, and realizing that they are not nearly as amazing as I am, he will call me again, and then – who knows? – by then, I could be with someone else…

    But, nevertheless, it doesn’t matter, because if his heart isn’t in it, then there is no way that it could work. Plus, when I really think about it, there were some little things he did that made me feel anxious. And I don’t want to be with someone who makes me feel anxious. I want to be with someone who cares about me and makes me feel relaxed.

    Ahh, this post is getting long….

    Hope you’re doing well, Mel. Don’t know if you are in the US, but if you are, then I hope you had a good Thanksgiving! 🙂

  370.  #370confused on November 29, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Rori, I was reading what you wrote about guilt and something that is always bugging me is feeling guilty about circular dating I feel mischevious, sneaky, distrusting, “out to hurt men”, yes i know this is all extreme but thats what I fear and feel inside. however, I like the thought of circular dating…I wish I didnt feel so guilty I just feel like it can hurt potential old fashioned men who might not understand this…

  371.  #371Tiffany on November 29, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Rori, I love what you said in #367. Thank you!!

  372.  #372Rori Raye on November 30, 2011 at 12:47 am

    Yayy Lizka! Love, Rori

  373.  #373English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 12:58 am

    If you knew everything was really all right, and that it always has a happy ending, then you would not feel trepidacious about your future. Everything is really so very all right! If you could believe and trust that, then, immediately everything would automatically and instantly become all right.

    ~~~~ Abraham ~~~~

  374.  #374English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 1:10 am

    #275 LG

    Noooooo I hadn’t heard about Jerry’s death, how sad, they seemed so in tune with one another. 🙁

  375.  #375English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Oh and I had posted that Abraham quote of the day before I read your message LG.

  376.  #376English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 1:26 am

    Esteemed and Aurora

    Thank you for your messages, oh how I would hate to work in a prison, great admiration for you AG for handling that kind of work.

    No I work in an office, but when the cats away the mice sure play up something shocking. Some days are no so bad but yesterday was awful and I was angry at myself last night for not speaking up more only with my little squeaky voice. 🙁

    I have not gone into work today as I need a break from that level of vibe and I am leaving anyway, so sack me. 😀

  377.  #377English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 1:33 am

    #315 BW

    Naughty me, I have taken a sickie today. 😳

  378.  #378Laughing Goddess on November 30, 2011 at 2:09 am

    EW: Ya, they did seem really connected and they seemed to live a very active and fun life up until a few months ago. Still fun probably but not so active on his part.

    She wrote a really beautiful letter on their blog announcing it. I felt so touched by what she said. She even mentioned that she felt a little anger towards her for leaving so soon which I thought was interesting and relevant to our perspective here.

    I support your decision to follow your bliss and take the day off!

  379.  #379Ella on November 30, 2011 at 2:39 am

    Gosh Sirens I am feeling annoyed and triggered.

    Just received this from a POF CD by text. We have been in phone contact and I have not yet had time to meet up. I think he sent me a messgage on POF or something… I haven’t really been keeping up to date on there.

    Text read ‘best of luck with site. I have tired numerous times to conact you with no reply. I don’t like rudness I thought you would have manner. Don’t appreciate timewasters but all the best.x’

    WTF!!! F8ck you!


  380.  #380Ella on November 30, 2011 at 2:42 am

    Wow, I don’t know why this has triggered me so much and I feel like going off on one at him.

    I feel REALLY REALLY angry.

    Been feeling angry in general recently.

    Don’t know what’s underneath.

    Have been feeling a bit insignificant in the house, with my housemates… like its one rule for them and one for me… maybe its that.

  381.  #381Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 2:53 am

    Haha EW! To be honest, I don’t blame you. And what are they gonna do? Sack you??? 😀

  382.  #382Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 2:59 am

    Awww Ella. I had a couple get annoyed with me for not responding straight away!

    One guy was particularly nasty, so I sent him a quick “some of us have lives you know, and if you’re going to be that nasty, then good luck meeting anybody because you’re a total ar$e!” type messages.

    Ok not very sireny but I totally did not care! Haha

  383.  #383Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 3:11 am

    Ok people help. TH is on his way over here and as you probably know from my posts earlier (and last night), I ended up emailing him a question last night.

    I told him I felt confused about where things stood with us and that I had misunderstood what he had said last week (I thought he actually offered me what I want – a REAL committed relationship, but it turns out he was only listing it as an option).

    I also wanted to know if that wasn’t what he wanted. I told him that I wanted to make decisions based on reality rather than the unknown and that I understood no matter what the answer.

    So….. He’s not answered my email yet, but I don’t want to pressure him either.

    So how do I bring it up? I definitely don’t want to “nag”! Argh! :S

  384.  #384RiverGirl on November 30, 2011 at 3:20 am

    I would say don’t bring it up. From what you have told us about your conversations, he will know what you want. He might not have made up his mind yet, but reminding him of it will almost certainly seem like pressure to him.

    He is still there, and still talking and visiting you…that’s a good sign. Trust him and give him mental space on this one.

  385.  #385Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 3:22 am

    RG, I think you’re right… I was thinking that bringing it up would case friction and/or pressure too. Thanks for that. 🙂


    Must…. not….. place…. pressure…. on ….. man……!!!!!

  386.  #386RiverGirl on November 30, 2011 at 3:23 am

    Haha, you got it! 🙂

  387.  #387English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 3:30 am

    #383 BW

    Remember it’s all about what YOU want, be selfish, it’s all about me me me!!! 🙂

    Remember YOU are the prize not him (so hard to focus on that when you get a whiff of crack). 🙁

    Pretend we are all watching you on webcam and act like a Siren accordingly. 😀

  388.  #388Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 3:34 am

    Haha EW I’ll do just that! I don’t want any virtual slaps coming my way, that’s for sure! 😉

  389.  #389English Woman on November 30, 2011 at 3:36 am

    BW, just think of us all watching and taking notes for feedback and discussion later LOL!! 😀 😀 😀

  390.  #390Butterfly wings on November 30, 2011 at 3:58 am

    Oooo! I feel kind of like a science experiment – or an example of what NOT to do! Haha! 😀

  391.  #391Jessie 1000 on November 30, 2011 at 4:44 am

    I feel happy cause the guy I thought disappeared on me took me to an appt. today so I can change my son to a french school! He was trying to make me jealous, why i dont know, I think he figures that I will admit that I like him or want to be his g.friend….anyway, normally, I would get really mad or maybe not talk to a guy like that but then I was trying my feeling messages and so I started to tell him how I felt, well I think too much came out but either way, by the time I was done, I was crying and so I just walked away from him, cause I felt like it, cause I was embarassed that he saw my pain….Making me jealous just makes me feel more inferior than I already do….if you are with me but you talk about how hot my friends are then I want to quit not try to make you my b.friend and I actually know, alhtough it sounds toxic, that he really really likes me and has even said he wants to marry me, do the long term thing but I get way too scared by all his talking…..anyway, long story short, I walked into the bathroom and when I shut the door, the biggest wail came out of me, I never realized how my anger was also sadness, and he got really worried, so did I ….I was so embarrassed and he didnt know what to say, he kept saying he was sorry sorry and told me he didnt blame me for being mad and that he was an ass and then i cried all the way down the street to get my son who was playing at a friends, the guy had gone home by then and my buddy who had my son was so worried about me, a neighbour came out and stopped me and talked to me and said wow, you always seem so strong, always happy and taking everyones kids, and i told her I just feel broken today and it was a wierd response to what felt like the most embarassing moment of my life….and the guy who made me cry or at least triggered me, kept texting me and asking me if I was Ok and i just pretended I was homesick, which I am cause I just moved here to this city.

    So my final conclusion? I dont know. He likes me still even if I had a bit of an emotional melt down. I wanted to call him and smooth it over…old jessie but then I said no, Im not going to and waited and now he wants to come over tomorrow night which I really want cause ever since he got these feelings for me he stopped having sex with me. WIerd eh? Youd think that if someone likes you they would want to have sex, our sex was so good before. Anyway, Rori’s tools work just like she said but emotionally I feel all messsed up because of the change in dynamics….im used to liking the guy alot and being mad that i dont get enough response from him….
    who knew?
    who knew that crying and saying my feelings would make him stay and actually be a little kinder?
    who knew that opening my heart wouldnt get me rejected?
    who knew that I had so many tears inside me?
    who knew that I could win a heart by showing my feelings?
    why didnt i know this?
    lol my girl friend seriously gets abusive against me cause she thinks rori is wrong….she liked my toxic ex and told me to stay WITH HIM but cause he was an emotional vacuum….he conntrolled me and would not commit after 4 years.,,,,HE LOVED TO PLAY WITHH MY HEAD…if i got close to leaving him he would tell me oh i was going to pop the question but u spoiled it…big fat liar and he would spoil my kids if he was really awful so that i would feel confused and couldnt make firm boundaries with him…..i hated it…and got very stuck….my g.friend seriously thinks that i do the wrong thing all day but i got to be me….

    but i miss his face sometimes…but i like the new one so much better and while hes not anything the same, there are moments now where my heart pounds and i cant sleep not cause im stressed but cause im not really used to being happy… eh?

  392.  #392Butterfly Wings on November 30, 2011 at 4:54 am

    Ok. So far so good girls! I have NOT brought up the email, and not only do I have a date with him Tuesday night, but after I mentioned I was considering going out Saturday night, he invited me to his house because they were having a few friends over.

    This isn’t something he would normally do, so on Saturday night I will definitely let him know how good I feel that he is including me in more stuff. 🙂

    As for Friday night, I thought he was going out, but he actually has to travel down the coast to pick something up now. So it looks like I am going out but not him! hehe! I like it! 😀

  393.  #393Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 5:57 am

    BW From Reconnect

    Imagine what your Goddess self will look like and keep imagining that she is always with you watching over you.

  394.  #394Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 5:58 am

    Ella again I would encourage you to really explore what that anger is about.

  395.  #395Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 6:12 am

    RE 304 Lizka I look forward to hear how the date goes. Hope you can stay in the moment while you are on the date.

  396.  #396Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 6:19 am

    Lizka I just saw 350. I hope you get convinced about and continue cdating. It is just one way to lift your vibe but you also get the validation that you are a magnet for men, in reality.

    Just recently Mel seemed to have been missing SexySarcastic to possibly even coming across as pining over him. Now that he is back, she is talking like she is not even interested in dating him again.

  397.  #397Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Jessie 1000
    Thanks for sharing that. All I can say is continue taking care of yourself and putting yourself first.

  398.  #398Radiance on November 30, 2011 at 6:28 am

    296 lk

    “i think that maybe when people have affairs at work, it is really kind of like stockholm syndrome LOL that is funny shxt is someone writing this down?!”

    I had to remind myself what stockholm syndrome was. That *was* funny…

  399.  #399Lili 41 on November 30, 2011 at 6:33 am


    I was listening to a CCarter interview w EMK on my way to work.

    EMK said : So many women speak and act out of fear. Fear of the unknown creates anxiety that they just have to push things and pressure.

    I’ve done that, and when I step back and look at myself doing it, it feels controlling.
    Once I’ve authentically expressed myself in a FM, I feel better about letting go.

  400.  #400Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 6:41 am

    Lili41 what I use from Rori to address such fears is to staying in the present, when I remember. Find something immediately in front of me that I can focus on. She says a pencil or the steering, some object is what she refers to in Reconnect. Get into the detail of it to switch my thoughts. I realize that in other areas of my life, such as work, I kind of do this unconsciously to take my focus off something and release pressure building up inside me.

  401.  #401Mel on November 30, 2011 at 6:45 am


    LOL, you made me laugh with the engagement comment. I AM doing well though! 🙂

    Sorry to hear that your architect isn’t awesome like mine… but it does sound like K2 is the behavioral equivalent. I remember feeling the same way. Not terribly attracted… I didn’t even want to kiss him at first! LOL But Rori is right that the good ones grow on us. Now I find him quite attractive and I absolutely LOVE to kiss him.

    I also wonder about guys disappearing after an intense experience they don’t feel ready for. Sexy Sarcastic went MIA after a super intense date. The two of us were like magnets and the attraction was incredible (for both of us, I think). This was the making-out in the museum and romantic roof-top star gazing date. It just felt so incomprehensible why he would poof after such a good-feeling evening.

    But after that, he just stopped texting, started canceling plans, and then just complete silence. It’s funny that like a whole month later, he’s suddenly interested again. He followed through last night and actually asked me out with a time and a plan… but it turns out I was busy so had to decline. I feel a bit “saved” because I was busy and could delay giving a real answer. I still don’t feel ready to make a decision on him.

    I know I could CD him (no sex), but the truth is I would feel incredibly GUILTY. So it’s funny that Rori just mentioned this. I’ll have to explore my feelings a bit more to see where they’re coming from.

    I think it’s that if the tables were turned and Architect were dating someone else, I would feel hurt. This is NOT the case. In fact, Architect has gone out of his way to let me know that he only wants to date me. Since then, I’ve felt bad having “real” dates with other men. I’ve continued to go out with guy friends and flirt with strangers, but the few times I’ve actually dated, I just didn’t feel good about it. What do you ladies think about this?

    Anyway Tiff… I love reading about your progress and I’m rooting for you on the sidelines. I’m not in the US, (I’m in Canada) but I’m fairly close to the New England borders.

    Continue to give K2 a chance… I have a good feeling about him! 😉


  402.  #402Mel on November 30, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Even if I didn’t feel guilty in general about real dates with other men… I still don’t know that I would want to date Sexy Sarcastic again. I just feel like he’s not good for me. I want a man who can handle intense feelings. Like Lilybelly said a few posts up, I don’t want to have to take care of myself emotionally. I want a man that can support me. That can be strong… and allows me to feel what I’m feeling… and loves me for being a feeling feminine creature.

  403.  #403Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 7:16 am

    Mel I feel confused about “I don’t want to have to take care of myself emotionally”. Can you elaborate? I thought Lilybelle was saying that she wants to take care of herself emotionally. I am assuming it was a typo or that you meant you had to hide your feelings.

  404.  #404Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 7:17 am

    By the way Mel I get from Reconnect your Relationship that when you feel that way you should just date yourself. Dress up like you are going on a date, make yourself feel sensual and just pretend you are your own date and go out.

  405.  #405Mel on November 30, 2011 at 7:24 am

    Yes.. typo FW! I want a man that can handle my feelings… because I am committed to feeling them!

  406.  #406Mel on November 30, 2011 at 7:29 am


    Yes, that’s what I’ve been doing. Going out with male friends (and female too!), doing things that interest me on my own (ballet, working out, creative things), flirting with strangers, not always being “available” and this feels GOOD. The few times I’ve accepted a real date, I’ve felt kind of nauseated. Especially the last one, when the guy kissed me. I just felt like I didn’t want that kind affection from another guy. It just felt bad.

  407.  #407Orna Walters on November 30, 2011 at 7:51 am


    You are so very welcome. You ARE cared about. You CAN access all the courage you need.

    As human beings, we are by design meant to overcome challenges.

    Matthew and I make a point every Thanksgiving to be grateful for all the things that didn’t go right, all the missteps, all the heartache…because every experience we had individually made us who we are to be available for the True Soul Partnership we now have.

    We share 5 things we are grateful for every single night of the year before going to sleep… so we switch it up at Thanksgiving dinner.

    In my darkest hour, the Wilson Phillips song: HOLD ON was my “comfort-blanket.” I listened to it over and over and over again because it gave me hope. So today I say to you: “Hold On…for one more day, things will go your way…”

    Love and Abundance,

  408.  #408lk on November 30, 2011 at 8:04 am

    CDcd emailed late last night (…?? lame kind of…) but was very sweet, asking if i am free Friday or Saturday… & actually i’m free both : ) ummm…. yes & suggesting either a really cool museum exhibit or a really fun concert…………………………. humbug, though. because i’m so confused about the driving/mountain thing… like…. how can he come down for a night thing? why is this so confusing?? i’ll have to ask him what kind of constraints he’d have…. or, actually, really that’s his business.

    i’ll just say, actually i’m free both days. both things sound fun. i’m really in the mood to hear some good music! & just let him take care of the rest of it. hm… feeling turned on & mad. haha, that’s a funny combination…

    oh & actually, now i don’t want to say i’m free both days. saturday will actually feel better for me : ) then i can be all slow & lazy & not worrying at work about driving or whatever. yes, that’s the good stuff.

  409.  #409Mel on November 30, 2011 at 8:28 am

    “Don’t underestimate the value of doing nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering.” ~Winnie the Pooh

    Rediscovering Winnie the Pooh; my new guru of leaning back….

  410.  #410Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 8:37 am

    I like that Mel. Imagine learning the same stuff from Winnie the Pooh. Wonder if she is a girl?

  411.  #411Laughing Goddess on November 30, 2011 at 9:21 am

    So my sweetie came home last night right after I was posting on here about having kids, and we talked about a realistic timeline. I felt really happy about the talk. We discussed logistics and what both of our concerns were.

    It felt really great. For both of us, the main concern was finances.

    We decided that we will definitely have a child within the next few years. We’re not going to actively try now, yet if it were to happen now, we would be totally okay with it first.

    In the meantime, we are just going to keep preparing for it by looking for a better house and I’m going to start researching natural childbirth and stuff like that. He’s going to work on finances.

    This feels really good!

    And also I just started my moon and I feel excited because I didn’t have any PMS incidents. I usually have at least one time where I lose it and have a PMS-fueled meltdown…usually with him. And I didn’t this month and that feels so exciting! I feel proud of me!

    Rori, wow! This stuff really works!

    I would never have imagined myself in this scenario even two years ago! This is amazing!

    Now that I’ve worked through the kid issue a bit…maybe it’s time to look at the marriage thing.

    How would I like for that that to look?

    Honestly, I don’t care. I feel his commitment very strongly and that’s enough for me.

    Can’t we just do it like they do in the Scandinavian countries?

    Do I have to get married? Still feeling resistant to that. It’s not about him, just the idea in general.

    But I used to feel that way about kids and that changed, so this could too.

    Maybe I just relax on that part a bit.

    I think this is more about societal pressure than anything.

    Ohhhhh, I feel lots of resistance in my body about this one….

  412.  #412Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 9:26 am

    LG I was just watching a Margaret Lynch tapping video and am now wondering what your family of origin looks like in relation to that and if you have any chakra vows that might need breaking.

  413.  #413Starla on November 30, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Da*mn, and a call from CF this morning while I was in the shower.

    Wow, those feeling msgs a couple weeks about wanting to hear from him more really worked! We went from 2x a week to 2x a day.

    Part of it was he needed a little encouragement. Again with the feeling messages about how good it feels to hear from him.

  414.  #414Laughing Goddess on November 30, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I give myself permission to approach marriage like they do in the Scandinavian countries. From what I have heard, it’s just not so important there. It’s totally normal for people to be living together, raising children, as life partners without ever getting legally married.
    Yes, I like this!

    And make can have a fun spiritual ceremony and invite our friends and family and it doesn’t have to be a big deal.

    We don’t have to go through the traditional wedding stuff.

    We can do it the way we want to do it!

  415.  #415Laughing Goddess on November 30, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I give myself permission to approach marriage like they do in the Scandinavian countries. From what I have heard, it’s just not so important there. It’s totally normal for people to be living together, raising children, as life partners without ever getting legally married.
    Yes, I like this!

    And make can have a fun spiritual ceremony and invite our friends and family and it doesn’t have to be a big deal.

    We don’t have to go through the traditional wedding stuff.

    We can do it the way we want to do it

    That feels good

  416.  #416Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 9:29 am

    @368: Rori Raye says:
    “…ooooo – I like this “wash with conditioner” thing – my hairdresser told me to do that long ago – and I sort of listened, but didn’t really get with it. Now I will! Love, Rori…”

    It’s fab and called “co-washing” — a way to clean our hair without putting shampoo on it. Co-washing is increasingly popular among women with curly and kinky hair. Wavy, curly or kinky hair is fragile due to the way the hair cells form the wave or curl pattern.

    Co-washing helps prevent harsh stripping away of natural oils and helps prevent hair breakage.

    I’ve been watching a lot of hair and make up vids… I’ll put more up if anyone is interested. Plus, I really admire some of the women making the vids. And they are fun!

  417.  #417tinque on November 30, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Laughing Goddess – Why can’t you do it the way they do in Scandinavian countries? Check your state common law laws.


  418.  #418Wildflower on November 30, 2011 at 9:35 am

    RE 298 Thanks Aurora Girl!

  419.  #419Starla on November 30, 2011 at 9:42 am

    ummmm i have a bit of wedding fever. I am looking at wedding sites, planning my romantic night-time wedding.

    weird! i’ve never felt compelled to have wedding fever before.

  420.  #420Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 9:57 am

    A true “common law marriage” is a legal marriage; it is not the same as a woman living with a man but not being married to him. It’s a holdover from olden days in remote parts when there were no officials to perform a ceremony.

    State statute recognition is mostly dying out in the U.S. Increasingly “common law marriage” is used as a euphemism for couples living together but who are not married and don’t consider themselves married… which means there is not a common law marriage in effect.

    One of the traditional tests for validity of “common law” marriage is that both man and woman present themselves to their communities as a MARRIED couple.

    If there is a common law marriage in effect, you are married! If you don’t want to be married there is also some legal protection for domestic partners in some jurisdictions.

  421.  #421lk on November 30, 2011 at 9:59 am

    fyi, universe: it is pretty silly to have given me this job where i have to manage paperwork sometimes. you know how hard it is for me to do stuff like that….

    oh, are you teaching me something? AHHH thank you : )

  422.  #422Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:05 am

    @409: Mel says:
    “Rediscovering Winnie the Pooh; my new guru of leaning back….”

    Like me…

    I barely remembered my ‘pooh days’ …even as a teen… but my parents liked to remind me throughout my life of when I was a toddler and always saying… “read ‘Winnie Pooh’, read ‘Winnie Pooh’…”

    I think there were reliving their younger couple life when they were saying this…

  423.  #423tinque on November 30, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Yes SLV, but the nice thing about common law marriage is that someone like me can have all the legal rights of a spouse, insurance, inheritance and power of attorney, etc. without having to actually marry. Some states require filing a document, some do not.

    As far as I know with domestic partnership, in most states that recognize it, one either has to be gay or over the age of 62.

    How are you? Long time…

    xxoo Dominique

  424.  #424Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:12 am

    I’ve been thinking about marriages and weddings. Do women mostly think of “weddings” when they think of marriage, and men think of something else? Just wondering…

    I was thinking about weddings last night, saw that “Twilight” wedding gown. I was thinking about making one, not that style though.

    I was thinking of a rather shocking “Sex and the City” style rhinestone dress I saw online a few months ago. Maybe making my version of it. The idea was a pretty bauble of creative thought with which I amused myself.

  425.  #425lk on November 30, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Also, i feel sad today because when i was getting ready to leave the house my fish looked sad… He actually looked sad last night & wouldn’t eat his dinner, but I thought he was just sleepy. This morning he was really breathing slowly & so I panicked thinking maybe something bad got into his water so I changed his bowl….. I put him on the speaker & talked to him, but he still was just being so sad & slow, though he would look at me when i talked……. I left him in the sun by my aloe where he likes to sit during the day, but I’m worried he may not recover.

    Peaceful, Paolo – sweet fish… I do really enjoy your company : ) thanks for being my friend. I hope when I get home, you’re swimming happy & i can give you some food & you will like it.

    I’m scared to tell my neighbor about it since she watched him while i was out of town… i don’t want her to feel like it is her fault…. If Paolo dies, i’m going to get a new fish & name him Paolo & just maintain the continuity, not tell anyone. I don’t want anyone to be sad & i know if Paolo dies, we had a good friendship & I took good care of him….

    I did leave my lynx & dolphin looking where Paolo was lying so he wouldn’t have to be so alone….he was so funny, getting interested in the dolphin (he knows the lynx already). Poor Paolo! sweet, sweet little fish – I hope you feel better : )

  426.  #426Lili 41 on November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am



    Thank you for bringing that up at the right time.
    I have the Reconnect program and have listened to it 3x.
    I forget about the tools when it’s actually the good time to use them.
    It really helps me that you point it out exactly at a moment I would have needed it.
    Bc I will need it again very soon.

    Right now, I’m struggling to stop myself from convincing, controlling, telling him what to do to influence a decision he has to make.
    Wanting to control is insecurity about the outcome, acting out of fear.

    The next time I see him, I want to say “I want to be an important part of your life. I feel joyful and enthousiastic about my Xmas plans, and I want to share my fun and happiness with you.”
    Bc before, he gave me the importance in his life, I withdrew and closed off out of fear and feeling unworthy. I wasn’t connected deeply to myself, so I couldn’t express what was really going on w me.
    After a while of that, he took it as rejection and started treating me poorly.

    So instead of what I would usually say “If you were really interested, you would do this, you would do that, you should know what you want…Basically, I would judge, criticize and lecture. That was my fear of getting what I don’t want.
    Now I don’t want to communicate out of my fear of being deprived, I want to communicate out of my feeling worthy of being happy and blessed…by daring to express the good things I really want for myself.

    I believe that the tool your brought up will help me focus and relax to accomplish that.

  427.  #427Mel on November 30, 2011 at 10:24 am


    I LOVE Winnie the Pooh! And as an adult, I have found I love it even more. So much dry wit and wisdom contained in those stories!

    And it doesn’t hurt that Pooh and I both love honey! I’ll have to try using a balloon next time I want to harvest honey… less stings maybe? LOL 😉

  428.  #428Mel on November 30, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Awwwwww! I got a text from Architect:
    “How is such a sweet flower doing on a day like today?”

    That’s it; my day’s been made! 🙂

  429.  #429Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:30 am

    @423: tinque says:
    “…Yes SLV, but the nice thing about common law marriage… without having to actually marry….”

    My understanding of common law marriage is that it’s an actual and legal marriage in the state/s in which it can still be initiated and by reciprocity in the others and accordingly all rights and obligations of marriage ensue.

    When you write “without having to actually marry” could you explain? Are you talking about “marriage license?” Or saying common law married but not…. Or not having a church wedding?

    I know you have done some research in this area but I remember my common law married client who had to get a divorce to reinstate her unmarried status.

    Some citation would be interesting for those of us exploring options.

    I’d been rather anti-remarrying for decades… until my “epiphany” a year or so ago. Then… “Hmmm, might as well be married… to have what I want.”

    I think it would be easier for me unless there were some very unusual financial or estate reasons.

    What are your thoughts?

  430.  #430Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:32 am

    @423: tinque

    Me? I’m OK, good. How’re you doing?

  431.  #431Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Am I actually scurrying toward the end of the year? I think so.

    Kind of good.

    Kind of exciting.

    Kind of hurried.

    Kind of overwhelmed.


    But good and exciting…

  432.  #432tinque on November 30, 2011 at 10:35 am

    SLV – It varies from state to state what the “requirements” are. For example in SC you only have to live together and behave like married couple, whatever that means, and you are considered common law. Other states such TX require a document to be filed with the state.

    For dissolution, some states require a formal divorce to be filed and others not.

    This has been my best source below.

    xxoo Dominique

  433.  #433Lizka on November 30, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Can’t wait to be back home and catch up with the blog and share with you about my date with C.A-CD!

    Just taking 2 minutes to send some love on Sirens Island!!


  434.  #434Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 10:41 am

    @427: Mel

    Perhaps I’ll revisit the Pooh. I had forgotten my “Pooh days” by the time I was a teen and used to cringe whenever my parents started reciting stories about me. There were others too… Now, I realize they just loved and admired me. Oh, well, time to read some Pooh, maybe after Christmas.

    I did think of “Pooh” when my son’s first teddy bear was misplaced and disappeared forever during a household move. Ugh!!! So sad.

    Perhaps time to start a new tradition. I love my little traditions, rituals and celebrations.

  435.  #435Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2011 at 11:01 am

    @432: tinque says:
    “…SLV – It varies from state to state what the “requirements” are. For example in SC you only have to live together and behave like married couple, whatever that means, and you are considered common law….”

    That’s more of less what the “requirements” were in my birth state of Ohio, then you are considered “married” through “common law” instead of a marriage license but nevertheless “married.” The phrase “common law” means how the marriage initated, similar to describing a “common law” basis for other contract and tort law.

    The “behaving” was both and man woman living together and representing to their community that they were a married couple.

    I think this came up before with Flowerchild and her real property questions. I hope things worked out for her, haven’t seen her much on blog lately.

    Dominique, how does the file document filing differ from the regular marriage licenses that you and I have used in our marriages? Thinking about that, I’m right back at the “i might has well be married… (in the legally traditional way)… and then do what I want to do…? Plus,I want “honeymoon!”

    I’m curious. Do you think some men prefer a “document filing” instead of something called a “marriage license.” It’s something to think about. But it’s a marriage either way.

    I’m going to add tee hee here… ’cause just got to love those men. Sometimes they think they are “giving up freedom” but they get so much more.

  436.  #436lk on November 30, 2011 at 11:08 am

    I am noticing this funny tension in me…

    I KNOW for an absolute fact that if CDcd had called me last week or sent me an email response already, my attraction levels to him would be plummeting….

    BUT princesslk is still like, umm, tapping my foot, princesses do not like to wait, duh, sigh, i want a call instantly to suggest plans that involve totally taking care of the driving, tickets, everything.

    HOWEVER……….. i re-read his email & felt so turned on by the gentle way in which he explains everything… the careful way he gives me details….. the easy way he writes like he’s talking… the respectful way he gives me space & room……. so turned on actually….

    that feels really good and open, like the whole ocean moving in my ribs & pelvis : )

    it would feel really nice, as it is wednesday, to get plans established tonight. it would feel best to discuss these plans on the phone. thank you!!!! : )

  437.  #437Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Lili41 I was going through CD5 this morning. I remember hearing about saying what you don’t want, to set boundaries.

    Reading your words I thought “I want to feel like an important part of your life”. Just that it kind of hit me like a choice that you get to make regardless of what he is doing or saying. I am asking myself if this script suggests that there is an agenda attached to it? I am not yet convinced I would want to include that particular statement.

  438.  #438lk on November 30, 2011 at 11:18 am

    superquick i will finish my emails.

    then superquick i will perfect the mystery document for bossman.

    then i will sit in the Y & see what is going on over there & figure out everything while i have an orange. then i’ll go ask for help making an appointment with a trainer & also ask about the Parkinsons classes, since for some reason I feel i want to help out there. also ask about the water aerobics classes for volunteering. when i get the trainer, i want a tour. then after i get some info (but NOT meet the trainer today, maybe on the weekend after one of the yogas) then i will change & just swim like a little baby for a while, then quick shower, then go to grandma’s & do her nails, then help with dinner, then put the polish at the very end after eating : ) good plan, lk. good luck.

    poor fish : ((( sweet Paolo! i miss you

  439.  #439Starla on November 30, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Alaska asked me out to go to the art museum. I told him I was busy, which is true, so he suggested an alternate date that I am actually available for.

    He is pretty cool but I don’t feel attracted to him because he has an insecure and negative attitude.

    However, I noticed his attitude getting better as I pulled away.

    But early impressions can say a lot.

    I don’t want to use him just to practice the tools.

    I feel guilty.

  440.  #440Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Mel I hope you responded painting a picture for his mind by sharing how you feel in addition to playing with his sense of smell (fragrant) and touch (delicate) so he feels the desire to come close.

    I know I am being silly…..feeling poetic

  441.  #441Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Starla you could use him to help heal your guilt.

  442.  #442Mel on November 30, 2011 at 11:33 am

    FW… I said I felt a bit wilty because I was so tired from working such long hours… but that his message perked me up. Then I said “I love that you always send me sweet texts. It makes me feel smiley.” He replied that he likes to send nice messages. Cute. 🙂

  443.  #443Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 11:43 am

    From Alexandra Fox


    As you get to know each other better, make teasing promises that keep his mind on the next time he will see you.

    Ask him about his favorite restaurant.
    Tell him you would like to go there one day.

    When he asks you what you were doing, tell him you were thinking about him.

    When he asks what you are wearing, tell him that he will find out – one day!

    It all comes back to the art of the tease. You are giving him a little promise of you each time you talk. The more he gets of you, the more he will want!

    But there is one point to remember: Never, ever make a promise you can’t keep.

    For instance, if you already have weekend plans, don’t tell a man you would love to spend the weekend with him. He might see it as a promise and expect you to deliver.

    A tease is fun, but a tease who promises something and then doesn’t follow through is not the kind of woman a man wants to be around.

  444.  #444tinque on November 30, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Hmmm, I don’t know how most men feel about the document vs marriage license, but I do know how K feels. It’s not the freedom thing or commitment thing. It’s that he hates being told what to do or have the government up in his business.

    Though I do find it interesting/curious that he seems okay with filing a document. I don’t see the difference really, as you said. Maybe it’s the religious implications.

    xxoo Dominique

  445.  #445Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Some valuable info is here. Hope it is accessible

  446.  #446Femininewoman on November 30, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    ” Playing with your hair, tilting your head for a sideways glance, dropping your jaw, a limp wrist, those actions send primal signals to a man and are especially powerful when used in social situation to create a SUBTEXT to the interaction. For example, during a simple act like ordering dinner, you can send out signals to the man without having to smile. Even if the conversation is somewhat serious – let’s say he’s telling you about what he does for a living – you can create a flirty subtext to the interaction. (Men love this, by the way.)

    Have you ever been out with a man you fancy, and suddenly you find yourself dropping things like your scarf or your keys, like a “damsel in distress.” If you find yourself doing these “submission signals” automatically, don’t stop! It’s good! It’s natural and instinctual. Now, perhaps you won’t shut down this behavior as inappropriate or clumsy. It’s just flirtation.”

  447.  #447Lili 41 on November 30, 2011 at 1:35 pm


    how about “I want to feel important”

  448.  #448Lili 41 on November 30, 2011 at 1:37 pm


    My point is that I want to make it clear what a real relationship looks like to me before we go any further…that’s my agenda really.

    Gotta run, leaving work, be back soon.

  449.  #449Lizka on November 30, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Finaly the day is over! I feel crazy exhausted but at least more happy then yesterday. So about last night…

    I was really feeling like sh*t and depressed and sad. Wanted to cancel my date with C.A-CD. I came here and wrote about ny situation and Femininewoman convinced me to go. So I decided that why not? Worst case I did not have to stay late. And I could go just for some free therapy.

    So the guy is pretty good looking. Not 100% what I am looking for but still. But he is super nice and respectful and smart. Conversation was really fluid and we had a good time. I decided that I would focus on practicing only eye contact and lean back position. I did not too bad, but I’ve learn about myself that it’s hard for me to just sit in my chair and lean back amd not to put my elbows on the table and everything. I will definitly focus on that one next time.

    We were in a bar where there was nothing to eat and I said I felt angry. He asked the waiter if he can order food from the restaurant next door. He just went to that restaurant, came back with the menu and made me pick something. Than he went to the restaurant again and ordered. And he went back to the restaurant a 3rd time to get the food. I was impressed! All this for me? And obviously he paid for everything, the foods and te drinks! For the first time of my life, I did not feel bad or guilty not proposing to pay my part. Yay!!

    When we left, I was going to take the subway and he had his car. He nicely proposed to drive me home even if it’s not at all on his way but also said that if I don’t feel comfortable, he would unserstand. Since he was very nice and kind and respectful, I let him drive me home. Yay!

    And the best from alltgis, is I did not think one time about E last night and almost not today! My little crisis about “is he gonna love me one day?” is over and I can lean back with no effort! Soooo happy with that!

    Next timeI don’t feel like spending my night with someone I don’t know, I will definitly think of this date.


  450.  #450Camille on November 30, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Yay Lizka,
    I was smiling and feeling so happy for you reading your post. Sounds like you were treated just as a siren should be……….and you had a nice evening and you are a great example to “get up and go” on that CD!

  451.  #451Lizka on November 30, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I felt sarcastic today and wrote that as my facebook status:

    “BEING JUDGED: (adj.) You are a single gal and you are dating. (Married) people think you are a pr@stitute.”

    I am really dealing with that. I really feel that some people around me are being judgemental about my life style. Those who are married and in couple can talk all day about what they did in the weekend with their love one or their family. But me, if I just say “I have a date tonight”, people start making dirty comments the next day (one co worker) in particular) like “so how was the f*ck last night”. I have a douzen of exemple like that, most of them from the same guy. I talk about it to my boss. She agreed that it’s really bad, that I should do an official complaint but that i should start by stop talking about my stories. I feel it’s unfair that married people can say whatever they want and it’s just natural and that single ones just have to shut up. When I’m happy about a date I had with E, I feel good telling some of my colleguez on the Monday morning. You have to understand that we are a small team and that everyone is very friend. It’s really a second family. And everyone is also open and they make jokes about s*x all the time. But if I do say that I have meet someone, people start rumours and stuff like that. It makes me feel sad.

    Even one of my friend, my best friend actually, (she’s been in a relationship with the same guy since she is 18, she is now 25) thinks that I should not be dating more than just one guy at a time. She thinks that I should focus on P if i want him back and that it’s a very bad idea to see E, and she doesn’t even know about my other CDs. I feel sad that can not tell my best friend about what I do in the weekend.

    I really feel judged and not understand. I don’t want to live in an unfair world.

    Grrrrrr I hate that!!!

  452.  #452Lizka on November 30, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Thank you Camille! This feels really good to read and i feel cheer up by your post!!

  453.  #453Lizka on November 30, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    By the way, about my Facebook status, many people liked it or commented on it. None of them was married or in a serious relationship…

  454.  #454Aurora Girl on November 30, 2011 at 3:33 pm


    Gotta ask how you all feel about flirting…whether you reach a limit when it gets too sugar-honey-drippy-coated….

    I start to feel bored and pessimistic when a man constantly texts “hi gorgeous” or “beautiful baby”……”love of my life”……almost over kill on the flattery….Rori do you think there’s a ceiling on this? Is it individual? Does the flirting mean anything?

    How does one tell the difference between a genuine compliment and a flirt after awhile…a meaningless comment?

    thanks xo

  455.  #455Esteemed on November 30, 2011 at 3:51 pm


    RE: #376 – Glad you are getting out of that unhealthy environment. Here’s to a new life!

  456.  #456Aurora Girl on November 30, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    ps from Ester and Jerry Hick’s blog:

    “Our sweet Jerry made his transition into Nonphysical last Friday. How sweet the Vortex is feeling to him today!

    Jerry said to me when we came together over 30 years ago that given the difference in our ages that it was likely “that I will cut out on you early,” to which I replied, “I don’t mind.” His joy of life and continual new discovery of purpose kept his life feeling fresh and we shared such joyous eagerness for life.”….Ester Hicks

    I”m eager to hear what comes next for this amazing woman Ester. She sounds at peace with being physically here while her partner is now “non Physical”…..feeling that he is leading the way for her……

    what amazing contributions this team has made to the world. They have made a key difference in my life too!

    my love to them both.

  457.  #457Senior Lady Vibe