Did He Go Back To His Ex Because You Didn’t Pursue Him?

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10-6 love yourselfThe Question:

“Rori, I had this great guy in my life, when we first met he said he is separated and likes to make a family.

We went out on few dates, in the last one he said I think you deserve a better man than me, then he started not to call so much then stopped calling. I used the Circular Dating advice.

Then I did not contact him for 5 weeks , then I called him and we started talking again, I felt he got better.
a two weeks later I found out that he got back to his old lady and he said I think we better become friends…

Did I make a mistake by not calling him for 5 weeks?

I felt I had a chance and I lost it by not trying anything at all?

I did try to convince him by staying with me, did not say anything I just agreed to what he said about me deserving a better man and I did not call for 5 weeks and afterwords I lost him, he is back with her?

I am not sure if I still have a hope of getting him back?

I like him so much and I wish it will work out for me?

I am sure you have all these great ideas and I hope that you can give me some advise and help me. Nancy”

My Answer:

Nancy,  so sorry for your pain and no – you did exactly the right thing.

He was very clear that he didn’t want to go further with you, and was clearly still hung up on his ex.

Contacting him would have not served you.

It would have been humiliating to reach out to a man who clearly does not want to be involved with you (“I think you deserve a better man than me” is “code” for “I’m not all that interested in you….“)

I know that’s hard to hear, but it’s the truth.

As soon as you start feeling more wonderful about yourself, you won’t be interested in men who aren’t interested in you.

Circular Dating helps identify the patterns in your attractions to men that are not truly serving you. Patterns of following attractions to men who aren’t good matches for you.

If you keep going with CDing, and don’t “feed” these old patterns by giving attention to men who “come and go” out of your life – except for when they’re right in front of you! – you’ll suddenly find yourself surrounded by men who want nothing more than to love you.

Then you get to choose.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1April Rose on October 9, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Kim and Sirens,

    I have discovered a great way to find out in detail about a man’s ‘ability to do relationship’.
    It is a report called ‘Chart His Heart’, and to get it you would need to know the man’s date and time of birth.

    It gives a clear indicator on whether he can ‘do the right thing’ by a woman.
    It could be that he does the right thing most of the time (high relationship capacity), hardly ever does the right thing (low capacity), or falls somewhere in the middle (average capacity).

    Anyway, lots of us seem to be intuiting this for ourselves without the use of astrology.

    Kim, I’m guessing your last few men have been in the ‘average’ ball park. Which in a way is harder than them being hopeless, because they make us feel so great SOME of the time!!!

  2.  #2Femininewoman on October 9, 2014 at 7:25 am


  3.  #3Femininewoman on October 9, 2014 at 7:27 am

    April it sonds a bit like Carol Allen’s right man report

  4.  #4prplpsn28 on October 9, 2014 at 7:49 am


  5.  #5April Rose on October 9, 2014 at 8:03 am

    It isn’t that one, FW. I know about that one too. The Right Man report is about compatibility. Carol says the bottom line is a man’s (and woman’s) individual capacity for relationship.
    First – can he/you do relationship?
    Second – are you two compatible in the relationship?

    In order for the relationship to function AT ALL, there has to be a degree of ability/capacity to DO relationship.

    I ordered my own, and WM’s capacity reports last year.

    Mine – well, it was average.
    WM’s – Low capacity. Here is what the report concluded – “Extra work, less fulfilment, more frustration, and more disappointments are what a relationship with this one will lead to”.

    I felt *so liberated* to discovered things weren’t all my fault.

  6.  #6Indigo on October 9, 2014 at 9:37 am

    April, dear siren,

    You needed a report to tell you it wasn’t all your fault? 😉

  7.  #7April Rose on October 9, 2014 at 9:43 am

    I did, Indigo

    When my intuition was confirmed by ‘science’, I felt sooo relieved. Like I wasn’t alone. I felt backed up by the universe, so to speak. And that gave me courage.

  8.  #8April Rose on October 9, 2014 at 9:44 am

    It showed me I CAN trust my intuition.

  9.  #9Sequoia on October 9, 2014 at 9:56 am

    This is so true : I think you deserve a better man than me” is “code” for “I’m not all that interested in you….“
    And also ‘I can’t give you what you want’ reg. Relationship … Also means I’m not all that interested.

  10.  #10Indigo on October 9, 2014 at 12:02 pm


    Well, I don’t know. Sometimes it means exactly that. Some men are not able to have a committed relationship with ANYONE.

  11.  #11sequoia on October 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    I have been retreating lately, looking at my f***ed up relationship with my parents again, reading Alice Miller book on The body never lies and I have come to some amazing realisations that give me a lot of hope for shifts in my future. I also realised that I do not love my parents and it is sooo OK – I don’t have to, don’t have to force myself into loving them.
    Another light bulb was that I had /have a very superficial weak father who my little child dreamt of being rescued by from my angry, abusive and emotionally absent mother, but he didn’t want to, as he just did not care much about me, but abused me for his own gratification.
    And so I have mostly always felt attracted to men who do not really care about me and just want to use me for their own gratification.
    I am feeling a lot of anger towards my parents, f**** the parents!!!, but also the fear of my little child being punished by not obeying them any longer (my kidneys started hurting while reading the book and realising stuff )- and at the same time I feel I am having a major breakthrough. There are still lots of feelings and lots of memories to uncover and feel, I am on the right track so and this feels soooo good!

  12.  #12Azure Blu on October 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Sooo VERY powerful!!!

  13.  #13RileyTheOwl on October 9, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    I meant to write this here on this thread, but whoops wrote it on an old one.. here it is.
    Today has felt really long and hard and difficult, sigh… I’m at home now, and I made my healthy comfort food (eggs), while cuddling myself and listening to calming music. I’m feeling much better now, still a little teary and I feel a bit like crying some more. I also feel relief because i realize that I’m always here for me, and that at the end of this really shocking difficult day, I am ok. I am really proud of myself for getting through that. For feeling all these feelings and taking care of myself. I really respected my boundaries and listened to my feelings today. Now I’m home and just… loving myself. Hugging myself. Letting myself sink into these feelings. ooohhh.

  14.  #14Emerson on October 9, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    It does feel so good and so different with a man that’s really into me….versus one that I feel I chased…
    The difference is uncomparable

  15.  #15Emerson on October 9, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    I don’t know why I tell myself these craxy stories like marriage wont happen to me, it happens to other people …

  16.  #16Millie on October 9, 2014 at 11:30 pm

    Sirens I caught a cold.. I’ve been taking good care of myself I’m so surprised! O’ding on vitamins and healthy foods right now, returning to smoothies full of spinach and fresh fruits. It’s my birthday weekend, so hopefully this cold will snap to!

    I have been feeling better about myself and how I interact with men. I’ve been feeling very forgiving and at ease in my skin, letting my unnecessary voices float down the river and the gentler, softer, assuring ones wrap around me.

    I decided to accept a date with Guy A who I’m not attracted to him, but I can see he is trying to impress me be spreading his peacock feathers and seems to want to take care of me. He bought a part for my car and wants to fix it and also take me to dinner in one of his fancy cars. Sounds like fun actually and Andrea inspired me with her post on the last thread about REALLY being in the moment and doing something because it sounds fun in that moment. So, we’ll see where he takes me, I’m excited to practice the tools and triggers on a person I have no attachment to.

    Guy B, out of state guy, who I am attracted to, has been chatting with me consistently and called yesterday but I was out at a work dinner. I enjoy his conversation and he feels easy to talk to. We have a natural flow, which I love. He told me today he hasn’t been on a date in two years…..so I’m looking forward to talking on the phone with him tmrw and hearing more about that. He intrigues me.. and it feels good to just explore curiosity and see where it leads, to not know or expect anything.

    Guy C is a friend, who I am also not attracted to. I can tell he’d be interested if I made a move…but since I’ve been sending friends only vibes it’s staying there. He consistently invites me out even though half the time I’m stuck at work and can’t go. I told Guy A, that “I don’t feel inspired to date” which kind of made him want to inspire me by doing something that would impress me. I really like that, it feels like masculine energy. Guy C seems to have accepted friend zone and asks me to grab a beer or go play trivia with him and his roommate. Egh. No. I don’t really know what feeling message to use there….but I don’t want to be treated like one of the guys.

  17.  #17Sapphire on October 10, 2014 at 4:36 am

    Hi Millie
    Its great that you agreed to a date with Guy A whom you are not attracted to. Sounds like it will give you loads of chance to practice the tools and get to know yourself while dating wih no pressure on you.
    I find the way we are with different men facinating and how different it makes us feel about ourselves. Practice, practice practice its the only way you can explore whom you are in relationships and what type of man is a good fit for you.
    Sapphire x

  18.  #18Femininewoman on October 10, 2014 at 5:41 am

    Happy Birthday Mille 🙂

  19.  #19Kim on October 10, 2014 at 6:13 am

    April Rose, I don’t really believe in Astrology so much, especially that it has been proven that since those principles of astrology have been established, including out star signs, the alignment of the stars/earth has totally changed…meaning, it’s scientifically proven to be mumbo jumbo.
    I do like reading horoscopes, but I would feel really silly chosing my men based on some report that is, in my humble opinion, mumbo jumbo.
    In fact, I know a very clever young man who used to make a lot of money calculating charts for people…he did it just how everybody else does, with a clever computer program.
    Plus, he didn’t believe in Astrology either…LOL..but he is now a very rich man.
    now, there is a biz idea…

  20.  #20Kim on October 10, 2014 at 6:19 am

    You are right about me getting average men thrown in front of me, not too bad, not too great..making it tougher to walk away.

    I personally had the above experience, dating guy who still lived with the ex, called her all kinds of names, introduced me to his parents…and the next thing I know is he is going to concerts and now even on a vacation with her.

    Why would I blame myself for that, or not chasing him? Eeek, I would be mortified to chase a man who is still hanging out with the ex and ends up going back with her, that would feel humiliating.

    I believe if a man wants us, he wants us. Period. Unless he is a bit feminine, then he will stall.

    This is what happened with MoM, he is sulking because he realized I am dating others and am no longer available short notice. In fact, I blew him off all week because I still felt weirded out by the weekend…his communication almost fizzled out…and I have no desire to pick anything up.
    Maybe it will all just resolve itself?! I think in the end, this always happens anyway.

  21.  #21Azure Blu on October 10, 2014 at 7:05 am

    lovetodance #152
    from last thread…

    lovely siren…
    have you tried alllll of the great RR coaches offering FREE counsel?
    They are soooo helpful for moving self confidence forward (more quickly than doing it by ourselves)
    Natalina has been helping me a lot!

  22.  #22Liquid Light on October 10, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Have been communicating with someone for about a week or two. We were supposed to get together (first time) yesterday but he was kinda like how about if I call you on the way home from work and we can maybe have a glass of wine. And he didn’t send me the text until like 4 in the afternoon. I was underwhelmed. I texted back much later that since I didn’t hear from him, I made other plans and that we should shoot for another time. He just texted me and invited me to dinner on Tuesday night! Much better! Hoorah! RR works!

  23.  #23IamHis on October 10, 2014 at 8:53 am

    So, I was with a bunch of guys last night, a couple that I’ve known for a few years and I was just thinking of how good it feels to get to know men in small group situations, no dating involved (maybe it feels so good because there are no expectations on either side? ) & over a long period of time.

    One of the guys I was talking with was telling me he was going to miss me as I was going to be out of town, and then he said he just felt like he and I “clicked” & I smiled and said I agree.

    He gave me a big hug and then left to go to some event.

    When I got home I saw I missed a call from him. My mailbox is full, so I called him back and left a message saying sorry I missed your call.

    He texted me back saying he had wanted to catch me before I drove too far out because he wanted me to join him at this event he was going to.

    Sort of a last minute thing, but it still felt good that he called.

    I feel thankful for flight vouchers that allow for travel even when money is tight!

  24.  #24Liquid Light on October 10, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Men are such big babies sometimes…its absolutely hysterical. the amount of ego stroking that they need is astounding…they are way more needy than us in a lot of ways…I keep learning this the hard way… sigh.

  25.  #25RileyTheOwl on October 10, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Hooray, it’s the weekend!! I hope everyone has amazing feeling weekends full of self love, relaxing, and pampering. (and dates? 😉 ) for me, this weekend will be spent out at the cabin. I love being there, because the whole place is surrounded by forests and ocean. The vibes that I receive from such peace and quiet are sooo good for me. I’ve been going to the cabin ever since I was a child witht my family, and now I’m going out there alone… I have the place to myself… *sigh of content*. A perfect place to relax and refresh myself…. No phones, tv, radio, anything… I’m going to be meditating in the forest and strolling along the misty beaches:) in the evenings I’ll be relaxing in the glow of candles and reading my book…. Ohh I’m looking forward to this. Then Monday night is the chaotic family thanksgiving gathering… Hehe… I’m not going to think about that till later.

  26.  #26RileyTheOwl on October 10, 2014 at 11:21 am

    LL 22, Heheh I love the “hooray, RR works!!” 🙂

    I love how you so simply and easily turned that little situation around so that you’re now completely pleased about this wonderful date.

  27.  #27Mandy on October 10, 2014 at 11:27 am

    I can feel the anger welling up in me again from the worry of being neglected sexually again.

    That’s what came out a few days ago…it had nothing to do with pictures…all had to do with me just feeling like I have to gear up emotionally to be completely neglected again. It doesn’t just get fixed with one time of it going right. It’s like when it goes right it feels great, and there’s a glimmer of hope, but then it just goes right back to where it was before. After the wonderfulness comes another day of knowing of the path I fear to tread.

    I thought to myself, what if I go straight to the letting go, bypassing all the anger which eats away at me? I could just go straight to ‘giving up’ which would probably be easy, being that I haven’t done much to try to fix anything since we were intimate recently – I’d just be going straight to doing NOTHING and letting him fit into my schedule; that’s when things turned around last time, when I just stopped trying to be all mighty and right about it, and just let it go, and felt my own humanness, and sadness. It must’ve appeared quite feminine because when I just let it all go, he showed up again. So maybe if I just BYPASS fighting it…being so angry and upset and just keep my grip OFF it…keep NOT FIXING it…Just say oh well, so what…

    Oh well, so what…who cares…there are other things in life…other choices to make…other circular dates even…other ways…other people…other days…other things…other feelings…even if I do feel sad right now…

    In the digging I did, it really is the thought of him burying his head in the sand about it that makes me want to smash it into a million pieces. At least I figured that out. It’s not me wanting a white picket fence and children and marriage, it’s me wanting to club him over the head when he buries his head in the sand about how there’s a huge elephant in the room having to do with him not touching me.

  28.  #28Indigo on October 10, 2014 at 1:57 pm

    RileyTheOwl 25,

    I don’t mind telling you that I am very jealous indeed! A whole weekend to yourself in a cabin that sounds absolutely gorgeous. Sigh. Enjoy it 🙂 sounds like my perfect weekend

  29.  #29RileyTheOwl on October 10, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    Hi Indigo, yes!! I’ve read lots of your comments for a long time, and I’ve realized that we both have a lot in common personality wise… Such as the fact that we both seem to be extremely introverted and need quiet time everyday. Especially that. I can definitely see how you would appreciate a weekend at a quiet cabin…. It’s an ideal weekend for an introvert(:

    I find at the end of a busy day, I really can hardly function around busy areas. On campus when everyone is outside rushing around, downtown, just trying to get home after this long week…. Sigh. My favorite way to relax and get back in touch with myself when i get home is to have a bath 🙂

  30.  #30lovetodance on October 10, 2014 at 9:24 pm

    just want to write this scenario out because it has happened before in my life…my heart and mind want to understand it….i want to understand this behavior

    it has been said that if you can name a behavior then that is part of the healing….

    the cd who has pursued and flirted with me for two years….who i was not invested in….
    i finally gave him my number….and now i am foggy if he actually asked for it or if i said okay here’s my number …and he asked a good day to call…

    he never called….he is always working on one of my routes that i walk my dog….i waited a month to go back to that route because i felt kinda weird….like rejected …and i didn’t want to feel that or give the situation the power to make me feel less than….

    so i went today…and there he was…i was way leaned back but smiling…he barely acknowledged me….i kept doing my best to feel my beauty…

    but it bugs me….he had been so warm, so seemingly kind and so hugely into making contact with me…

    and then …..this

    it feels like crazyee behavior….what is that…?
    what is that called…

    it hooks me tho in the sense that now i want to figure it out…and a feeling of wanting to understand…to get something back from him….like my number……i want to go ‘next’ and move on with a laugh…and sometimes i am….but then it crops up and i just want to understand…

    actually it feels mean to me…why do some men do this and whats the story?

  31.  #31Millie on October 10, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Lovetodance, I think you never know what else is going on with a man, he may be seeing someone else…. But it’s all speculation. I totally understand feeling rejected by a man who doesn’t act on having your phone number. If you bold enough and unattached to the outcome, you could ask him… Or simply accept that he’s not the guy for you right now. It’s nothing personal, it just is….

  32.  #32Azure Blu on October 10, 2014 at 11:05 pm

    I agree with Millie… lovely Siren,

    This is where cding more men gives little power to the ones who just CAN’T…
    That is probably all this is… He just CAN’T…

    But, i’m thinking. THIS is YOUR mirror… Here is an opportunity to examine YOUR trigger…
    Go Deeper… take a look at these feelings this situation is bringing up…
    It is SUCH a GREAT opportunity to practice…
    Call the feeling by name… examine the feelings and LOVE ALL OF THEM… they are a WONDERFUL
    a part of YOU!! this is a gift…

  33.  #33Azure Blu on October 10, 2014 at 11:07 pm

    from Rori:
    “Vulnerability Is Key To Attraction
    And by embracing her own “worst qualities” and
    Loving Herself not in SPITE of them,
    but BECAUSE they were an essential part of her,
    she was experienced by all men as completely NOT NEEDY.”

  34.  #34Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 4:10 am

    RileytheOwl 29,

    I know exactly what you mean. My day is not complete until I’ve gone for a quiet walk and had a hot bubble bath.

  35.  #35lovetodance on October 11, 2014 at 5:40 am

    millie 31

    thank you so much for your wise siren words

    all of what you said has cursed thro me… i have no idea of his true situation no matter what he might have told me…

    and i treasure the day when i am not attached to outcome….and its not like i spent time fantasizing about him….

    its just this dynamic now becomes my work ….and there is always this work….but i see its what makes us grow…i want it to help me now…not hinder….

    part of me now wants to walk that way so i can just practice feeling my beautiful sireness in a situation that has the potential to so trigger me….to build my muscle of carefree confidence no matter how he or any other human responds or doesn’t to me…..

  36.  #36lovetodance on October 11, 2014 at 5:55 am

    32 & 33 Azure

    thank you for your loving input….

    yes this is great free therapy for me…altho not easy…

    to name my reactions and embrace them….

    incredulousness really

    it feels tricky to embrace them all….which i can …yet not vibe or project them on this ‘mirror’ man

    i do want to walk on my walk [good metaphor] and show him how i am free….

    yet i know….its me that wants to show ME…be… free….

    FOR ME

    i know i know….

    this is tricky sticky stuff….

    to embrace my vunerability and hurt and yet be de-tached from any outcome….and project an air of confidence and warmth all at the same time….geesch….

    i know this is a process

    of integration…….not linear….

    and i feel the deeper i accept and acknowledge my feelings…the less power they have to hurt me….or control my internal story….or threaten my WELL being….

  37.  #37lovetodance on October 11, 2014 at 6:42 am

    ohhhh just got in touch with a few more feelings…

    of no significance

    wow….all this from a man not calling when he said he would…..

    my question….
    when i walk my walk

    do i act as if nothing is amiss….?

    do i feel all this yet act as if i am fine and whole…which i know i am ….yet these strong emotions may be whirling inside?

    or do i avoid this path altogether?

    yet i feel so compelled to walk this way….to overcome
    my fear….and to be all of me….in my beautiful vunerability….and strength…..

    i do see the metaphor and its so adorable really…

  38.  #38Azure Blu on October 11, 2014 at 6:59 am

    Ahhh… yes… this is so AMAZING…
    I love what you shared here:

    “part of me now wants to walk that way so i can just practice feeling my beautiful sireness in a situation that has the potential to so trigger me….to build my muscle of carefree confidence no matter how he or any other human responds or doesn’t to me…..”

    Rori says….We don’t have to get it PERFECT…

    in MY mind…being “soft on the outside… strong on the inside” is a lifetime journey (shoot! I want it NOW)
    But what I have noticed… just like you said…
    as I become aware of each feeling in alllll different situations… and LOVE those FEELings
    I am building my vulnerability and authenticity muscle!!!

  39.  #39Azure Blu on October 11, 2014 at 7:13 am

    ((((lovetodance)))) #37
    I want to reach out and hugg you!!!!

    Love this…
    “and to be all of me….in my beautiful vunerability….and strength”
    You ARE adorable!!! :~))

    I would keep walking where YOU like to walk!

    This does feel scary and vulnerable when I think about doing it….

    Smile and wave, look him in the eyes and say HI! and keep walking… That feels genuine… and powerful…

  40.  #40Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 8:47 am

    Sorry, spamming coming up, and I’m sorry if any of this sounds judgmental or harsh, there are some deep things going on with me and it would just feel so good to get it out, I don’t mean to be hurtful or offensive.

    Sometimes it just feels so hard for me to be close to people, because people feel so superficial to me. They don’t mean to be necessarily, I can see that clearly. Most of them don’t mean to hurt. Yet, when the depth in me calls out to other people, most of the time there is just nothing.

    When I love someone or care for someone, they are my whole world – my loved ones and relationships are that important to me. I long to share all the beauty and gentleness which is in my heart with them. I long to create bonds which nothing can break. I long to connect with them and shower them with kindness, to want only the best for them, and to quickly explain and apologise if I unwittingly hurt them. I want them to feel that way about me. But as I go through the world, I see that mostly it isn’t so. There are a few precious souls in this world that I treasure. But sometimes I despair of finding a man like that.

    One with whom I do not have to hide or hold back – not when it comes to the love in my heart anyway. I long for someone who sees me, understands me, accepts what is offered, trusts me. I long for someone who does not push me away or withdraw, but builds a relationship which creates more and more closeness, more and more understanding. Someone who knows I would give my life for them, and doesn’t question me.

    Sometimes I feel like an alien for wanting a love like this. I wonder if it exists. What I see in most other people would not be enough for me, would not be deep enough for me. I could not be content with someone who is much less deep than I am – I know because I have tried, and been hurt. My sensitivity takes me into new worlds all the time, and other people don’t understand.

    They don’t understand how much things matter to me, how much they mean. They don’t understand how lonely it is for me when I try to reach them and the wires get crossed. I just wish more people understood. I love people and they don’t fully realize it because it’s all going on in ways I can’t explain.

    I don’t know if I’m making sense. But suffice to say, without sounding sorry for myself, and without discounting the value of people in my life who are there and whom I do love, I feel very isolated and lonely.

  41.  #41lovetodance on October 11, 2014 at 9:47 am

    dear beautiful indigo

    i feel so much appreciation for you

    your depth and solid gold loving is such a beautiful gift to us on this blog


    gifted are the people in your circle who have you as their true friend

    i know you are expressing here deep feelings that need the light of day…..to make spaciousness to allow to come in what your soul is seeking

    i feel it is true that many cannot love at a depth that you speak of ….i know myself that i have sometimes run from what feels to me … a deeper intimacy or connection….maybe my fear of the responsibility of it…..

    when i read your words/experience i am reminded of the sensitivity of some of the greatest world poets…the little i know of rilke and hafiz and that other fabulous middle eastern man..whose name is escaping me at this moment….

    it feels like a spiritual quest to me….that is what i imagine when i read your words….and i have always felt that life is that….it is about refining, knowing, loving who we are fully….that is such a quest….and loving deeply….ahhhhhh

    i am rambling…wanted you to know i feel and hear you…

  42.  #42prplpsn28 on October 11, 2014 at 10:13 am

    So…it’s been 4 weeks now of no contact with H. It’s been since that weekend he wanted to come over and I didn’t agree to it. I have mixed emotions about that. It’s starting to feel more like an end, he’s not coming back. Not sure how I feel about that. I had a session with Dominique the other day that was awesome and I know deep down it’s not my fault. It’s his issues. But it’s hard not to think that.

    I will be leaving in a couple of hours to go out of town to my Aunts “big bash” that she has every year on her 50 acres of land. We will be camping overnight on her property. There will be lots of people and plenty of opportunities to “cd”. I’m bringing my bff and one of my daughters with me so hoping for a great time.

    Have a great wknd everyone 🙂

  43.  #43Emerson on October 11, 2014 at 11:42 am

    Hey sirens!
    I remember Rori saying that we need to notice how our body feels, be aware of where you feel uncomfortable in your body….
    I noticed when I’m around married crush at work, I feel an ache in my stomach and an ache in my head…I feel angry and jealous… I usually stuff these feelings… Both emotional and physical… And yesterday I allowed myself to really feel it…
    I felt like sobbing…but I didn’t…

  44.  #44Dominique on October 11, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    Indigo – 40 – I SO understand. <3

    Sending you much love.


  45.  #45Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 2:26 pm


    Thank you for your gorgeous response to me. I feel heard and understood.

    That is exactly what it is like for me, a spiritual quest of sorts, for this takes place in the deepest, most beautiful part of my being.

    Thank you – and thank you for listening while I get the feelings out. xxx

  46.  #46Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Dominique 44,

    Love you. <3 xxx

  47.  #47Violette on October 11, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Indigo I really relate, I am on the same quest. Thank you for having the courage to voice it! It isn’t easy because in this society if you don’t act like you love the friends you have it can cause people to react defensively or something.

    Well, I want better friends! I deserve them! I don’t want a life of random people who serve random purposes, I want real, available friends who have their life together and who make time for me and who are worth making time for. Who appreciate me and are worthy of me.

    I deserve that. I know it, I know it is a more quality life than the other . Which has it’s purpose of course, we all need a social network, for safety and help and community.

    I hear you. I feel like you hear me 🙂

    Purple you sound so much better! What a pleasure to hear the brightness and energy in your last post. I for one am relieved that guy is out of your life and out of your energy, I can already tell you are clearer and brighter and ready for better things.

  48.  #48Andrea on October 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    I feel so alive and flirty and good about myself. Just started a new workout program and am just feeling so vibrant and beautiful. My daughters are helping me with support and exercise techniques that they learned in the JROTC.
    I’m loving the time spent with my daughters.

    They’ve suggested I stop drinking alcohol and diet coke for at least a month to see if I can get the toxins out of my system. My youngest said to me, “Mom, you look just Marilyn Monroe… only a little chubbier.”

    They love it that I’m taking care of myself again.

    I am also CDing all over the place. My favorite at this time is Bob. He helped me with my truck issues at the beginning of the week. When I went to pick my truck up at the garage he texted that he was going to stop by and make sure it went smoothly. When that was done with he acted like he had to rush off. He said something terse like… “gotta get back to work then I’m going out of town for the weekend.”

    Old me would have said something like.. “Oh, I feel so appreciative of your help and I was hoping we could spend some time together before you leave for your trip. What do you think?”

    But NEW ME!!! Smiled so seductively at him. I said, “I feel so wonderful to have my truck back Bob. I feel so supported and cared for by you. I’m happy. Thank you so much.” And then I got in my truck and drove away.

    I went home and focused on my life. Then the text came.

    “I really want to see you before I leave for out of town. What about a lunch date tomorrow? I’ll take you to the new deli up by the mall.”

    Yes!! I love it. HE wanted to see ME. HE innitiated. He led. He suggested where to go. He is feeling he needs to work to see me. He is chasing me. This feels so delicious. So delicious!!!

    And he gives me quivers and shivers in my belly when I’m near him. At lunch he showed me the tickets to the Garth Brooks concert that he purchased for us and then he suggested two different hotels. He’s really working at this. I’m so so excited to spend the weekend with him. That won’t happen until November though.

    He told me: You know, I have so many fun things I’d like to do with you. I just really have to pace myself. I have jumped in too soon before and it hasn’t worked well for me.

    I asked him what he meant by “Pace Himself”

    He said, “I don’t want to control you, or have expectations of you that aren’t there yet, or get too needy with you….”

    I said, “So… what I’m hearing is.. you don’t want to be controlled, you don’t want me to have expectations that aren’t there, you don’t want me to get too needy.”

    He said, “That seems accurate.”

    I smiled and told him, “I feel secure in our communication with eachother. I feel really happy when I’m with you, but I also feel comfortable letting you set the pace.”

    Right now we haven’t been intimate. We’ve kissed but have not spent the night with each other. I feel extremely good about not bridging that gap yet. He just makes me so happy.

  49.  #49Sophie on October 11, 2014 at 3:51 pm



    Andrea 🙂 🙂 🙂 I am loving your posts…I am hanging off your every move hoping it soaks in by osmosis 🙂 I felt particularly intrigued in this post between ‘old you’ and ‘new you’ – Both scripts are scripts but what a difference in the energy. Great example. I loved the image of you driving off in your truck xxx

  50.  #50Zara on October 11, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    “As I began living my turnarounds, I noticed that I was everything I called you. You were merely my projection. Now, instead of trying to change the world around me (this didn’t work, but only for 43 years), I can put the thoughts on paper, investigate them, turn them around, and find that I am the very thing I thought you were. In the moment I see you as selfish, I am selfish (deciding how you should be). In the moment I see you as unkind, I am unkind. If I believe you should stop waging war, I am waging war on you in my mind.
    — Byron Katie”

  51.  #51Zara on October 11, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    I am feeling the pull to work the turnaround 1 on Indigo’s post 40

    “Sorry, spamming coming up, and I’m sorry if any of this sounds judgmental or harsh, there are some deep things going on with me and it would just feel so good to get it out, I don’t mean to be hurtful or offensive.

    Sometimes it just feels so hard for me to be close to me, because I feel so superficial to me. I don’t mean to be necessarily, I can see that clearly. Most of me don’t mean to hurt. Yet, when the depth in me calls out to me, most of the time there is just nothing.

    When I love me or care for me, I am my whole world – my loved ones and relationships are that important to me. I long to share all the beauty and gentleness which is in my heart with me. I long to create bonds which nothing can break. I long to connect with me and shower me with kindness, to want only the best for me, and to quickly explain and apologise if I unwittingly hurt me. I want me to feel that way about me. But as I go through the world, I see that mostly it isn’t so. There are a few precious souls in this world that I treasure. But sometimes I despair of finding me like that.

    Me with whom I do not have to hide or hold back – not when it comes to the love in my heart anyway. I long for me who sees me, understands me, accepts what is offered, trusts me. I long for me who does not push me away or withdraw, but builds a relationship which creates more and more closeness, more and more understanding. Me who knows I would give my life for me, and doesn’t question me.

    Sometimes I feel like an alien for wanting a love like this. I wonder if it exists. What I see in me would not be enough for me, would not be deep enough for me. I could not be content with a me who is much less deep than I am – I know because I have tried, and been hurt. My sensitivity takes me into new worlds all the time, and I don’t understand.

    I don’t understand how much things matter to me, how much they mean. I don’t understand how lonely it is for me when I try to reach me and the wires get crossed. I just wish I understood. I love me and I don’t fully realize it because it’s all going on in ways I can’t explain.

    I don’t know if I’m making sense. But suffice to say, without sounding sorry for myself, and without discounting the value of me in my life who is there and whom I do love, I feel very isolated and lonely.”

  52.  #52Zara on October 11, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Turnaround 2

    Sometimes it just feels so hard for people to be close to me, because I feel so superficial to people. I don’t mean to be necessarily, people can see that clearly. I don’t mean to hurt most of them. Yet, when the depth in other people calls out to me, most of the time there is just nothing.

    When someone loves me or care for me, I am their whole world – their loved ones and relationships are that important to them. They long to share all the beauty and gentleness which is in their heart with me. They long to create bonds which nothing can break. They long to connect with me and shower me with kindness, to want only the best for me, and to quickly explain and apologise if they unwittingly hurt me. They want me to feel that way about them. But as they go through the world, they see that mostly it isn’t so. There are a few precious souls in this world that they treasure. But sometimes they despair of finding a woman like that.

    One with whom they do not have to hide or hold back – not when it comes to the love in their heart anyway. They long for someone who sees them, understands them, accepts what is offered, trusts them. They long for someone who does not push them away or withdraw, but builds a relationship which creates more and more closeness, more and more understanding. Someone who knows they would give their life for her, and doesn’t question them.

    Sometimes they feel like an alien for wanting a love like this. They wonder if it exists. What they see in me would not be enough for them, would not be deep enough for them. They could not be content with someone who is much less deep than they are – They know because they have tried, and been hurt. Their sensitivity takes them into new worlds all the time, and I don’t understand them.

    I don’t understand how much things matter to them, how much they mean. I don’t understand how lonely it is for them when they try to reach me and the wires get crossed. People just wish I understood. People love me and I don’t fully realize it because it’s all going on in ways they can’t explain.

    They don’t know if they are making sense. But suffice to say, without sounding sorry for themselves, and without discounting the value of me in their life who is there and whom they do love, they feel very isolated and lonely.

  53.  #53Zara on October 11, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    Turnaround 3

    There are a few precious souls in this world that I treasure. And sometimes I rejoice in finding a man like that..

    My sensitivity takes me into new worlds all the time, and other people do understand.

    They do understand how much things matter to me, how much they mean. They do understand how lonely it is for me when I try to reach them and the wires get crossed. I love people and they do fully realise it although it’s all going on in ways I can’t explain.

  54.  #54Mandy on October 11, 2014 at 6:44 pm

    Hi Sirens.

    I want to say how much I love coming here and how safe I feel around all of you, and how much I admire what I see…I read a lot of posts, believe it or not…and I relate so much. I feel pretty good today. Reading all the different posts and perspectives always is refreshing and makes me think and feel and consider different things, but I am truly emotionally attached to this blog group, LOL! You all make me feel heard 🙂 Lots of you have guts and strength, especially with Circular Dating….and also awareness of what you like and don’t like. I like to see women who are able to exclaim what they like and don’t like, or when they feel turned off by something and are able to say it, that’s one of the best parts. It makes me feel confident that women in American society aren’t going to be “yes” people all the time (the media portrays women just not being able to say no, a lot.)

    To Andrea – You GO, girl! I feel so very excited for you, genuinely. (I seem to feel empathy towards others’ particular situations moreso on this blog than anywhere else, I find it is hard for me to relate to others sometimes due to an emotional block – fear of rejection) but I feel HUGE relation to you here…(it makes me very happy to know it…YAY I’m connecting, lol!!!)

    I’m no coach, I still have tons to learn, I screw up sometimes, and still feel quite confused at times about me, my man and our thing, but if I may offer my two cents, If I may relate my own little story…

    When I decided I was leaving the “old” me behind, it was nothing short of scary and painful, having to lose 50+ lbs, living with everything everyone was saying about it being a small-time photography model, getting through college with a disability, moving out of my parent’s house when they were doing everything in their power to keep me there, in that complacent, shouting-match filled household…changing your self and changing your life isn’t easy, but the benefits FAR outweigh the pain and frustration. My biggest frustration has always been being at point A, and wanting to get to point B, ASAP. Change never happens fast enough for me, and that is SO me being in the masculine “do-it, fix-it mode”, it’s not even funny! If I were to give advice to the “me” that existed a year or two ago, I’d say, cherish your journey, because when you look back on it, you will be so proud and happy with yourself on all you went through and how hard you worked and you’ll appreciate it so much.

    But, an essential part of being a Siren I believe… is to keep in tune with your body, see how it moves, see what it’s good at, FEEL how it is useful to you, and take care of it, and you will appreciate it more and more…I found out by taking one Zumba class that I am better suited for graceful dance because I’m all limbs, and when doing those punchy, short movements, I feel awkward, so I decided to try something else that worked for me rather than against me, lol, so I tried one Belly Dance class, and I learned so much about myself…it alerted me to the fact that my body is very special and my bone structure is pretty special…I have a very short and narrow waist, but a very wide, feminine hip structure and long legs and arms, and when I noticed no one else looks like me in the class, I feel very proud of my very special body – the first time I have NOT felt BAD for looking/being different – THAT felt/feels incredible, and it had nothing to do with any man, lol! I felt the same thing when I took a rock-climbing course, when I felt how useful my body is, to be able to get me from that way low on the ground to that way up high on a rock. Powerful stuff! SO important to experience these things so that you never forget how special and powerful you and your body really are. It feels so wonderful and goddessy to notice things about your own self that are special. Also, in Belly Dance, it is a huge deal to bare your belly for the first time, and to learn to be cool with it! In American culture it is as though we expect rock-hard abs if anyone is going to dare to expose their stomachs, but with belly dance it doesn’t matter if you are a little soft, in fact it is thought of as beautiful and feminine. This to me is of the ultimate vulnerability and very feminine, to show a very vulnerable, and often covered, part of your body, very freeing and allowing of self-discovery, feeling the air touch the skin of your stomach and knowing you are confident and standing tall and smiling even as you are exposing one of your most vulnerable spots. (Even cats show you their tummies when they are feeling comfy with you, and want belly rubs, lol!) I love Belly dance I’ve found out, and I plan on finding a good price on some classes in my town, since I tried it out. 🙂

    But yes yes yes, SO important Andrea, keep discovering you, and your own personal, special beauty, and feel it inside, what you really like to do…it is enriching as can be, and BONUS points for hanging out with your daughters…I know I’m 33, but I still miss the heck out of my mom and wish she’d hang out with me 🙂

    I have always felt a tiny little silent smirk of mischief inside me when I know that I have the Siren knowledge/tools maybe someone else doesn’t, and so it works to my advantage…sounds snarky I know, but I just can’t help it…it’s my little secret…lol! I have recommended the Modern Siren to my best friend though, and she did, and she used the tools, and she was married not too much longer after 🙂 She stopped with the “dog” mentality…taking “table scraps”/following her guy around, and apparently she let her him know what she wanted, and boom…married! She fully understands a man must always be able to chase his wife…or else he’s not going to want what he can get very easily. No thrill of the hunt. I’m so proud of her.

    Yay us, for doing all that…for putting ourselves and our care first…for being genuine, feminine, females…
    We really should all give ourselves a pat on the back for it…Like in the last Rori post with Emma Watson…So empowering, not having to emulate a man’s behavior to get results. 🙂

  55.  #55Beloved on October 11, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Ahh….lovely Zara….I’m smiling and sighing sweetly while reading your turnarounds.
    Tears come to my eyes.
    I feel so much appreciation when you appear, I love your reminders to turn the thoughts around.
    I feel reminded to do the work on some thoughts about a situation with school and feel lighter already.
    Merci beaucoup

  56.  #56Liquid Light on October 11, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    Why do we have to keep striving for perfection? Isn’t that what RR is trying to get at? We are all imperfect and until we embrace that, we will still get the same results. What I’m trying to say is that we need to express it, even the good bad and the ugly…and the angry, so that we can be known, and that’s what men are thirsting for…is our authenticity… all of it, even the nasty stuff, especially the nasty stuffy, the anger, the sadness the rage, its all a part of who we are! We must be courageous and embrace it/express it, that’s what we’re doing here, and that”s what will get is what we are ultimately looking for.

  57.  #57Kath on October 11, 2014 at 10:53 pm


    I’ve left a post for you on the previous thread.

    I am feeling so hurt and let down right now. I tried so hard to leave the relationship with dignity and to not express all my feelings of anger and pain towards him anymore because he was damaged enough already. We are still friends of facebook and he has made several likes and comments on my posts in the last few days which I was ok with. I have found myself feeling sorry for him more than anything. Then last night I discovered that he has once again become friends with the x he called “Psycho” and whom I had challenged him about because he has always maintained contact with her and a secret relationship with. I asked to be introduced to her and he refused twisting it that I would “just kick off”. But now I know that he was always keeping his options open with her-so how was he ever really with me???- I am gutted and I did message him to tell him what I liar I think he is. He doesn’t deserve to be in my life.

  58.  #58Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 11:20 pm


    “Well, I want better friends! I deserve them! I don’t want a life of random people who serve random purposes, I want real, available friends who have their life together and who make time for me and who are worth making time for. Who appreciate me and are worthy of me.”

    I hear you. Thank you for hearing me.


  59.  #59Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 11:20 pm

    Thank you for the hugs Sophie xx

  60.  #60Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 11:23 pm


    Thank you for those turnarounds, they felt so powerful. Especially the first one.

    As I read it, I thought, that is true.

    I feel like re-reading it a few times, and copying it to somewhere where I can look at it again when I need to.


  61.  #61Indigo on October 11, 2014 at 11:25 pm


    As usual, your posts are so enjoyable and awesome.

    I wonder how you manage to maintain your lightness through it all?

    How do you manage to maintain your optimism? Does it never feel tiring? Do you never lose heart?


  62.  #62Veronica on October 12, 2014 at 12:20 am

    Andrea, Indigo, Zara – wow I feel inspired by your posts here

  63.  #63Andrea on October 12, 2014 at 6:05 am

    Thank you everyone for your response. I have to admit, Indigo, that for almost a year now I have suffered… kind of quietly… the loss of my ex. He dumped me so stunningly and horribly last year before Thanksgiving.

    Even though I’d been CDing, I was hooked, absolutely hooked on him. He was toxic and (my life coach said) abusive toward me emotionally and verbally. I didn’t catch it because my ex treated me the way I had been used to being treated from child hood. He was familiar. When he dumped me, he completely cut me off. Completely. Blocked me from all social media, blocked my cell phone.. everything. He even saw me at the grocery store one day and completely ignored me.

    It hurt. It was brutal. But subconsciously I took it, not as the loss of a relationship with a man, but as a loss of everything that I had been familiar with. All the abuse, all the chasing, all the digging for crumbs.. all of that was like… home… to me.

    It took so many of Rori’s tools, not only cd’ing, but lots of inner work, to realize that all that pain was actually my grief. Even though my past was painful, and my journey with men, including my dad, pastor, teachers… etc… has been degrading and belittling… I still mourned the loss of the old way. I was familiar with the pain.

    What a gift my ex was to me.

    I had an experience a few weeks ago in which I was invited to come to my dad’s birthday party. All of the church that he is still involved with was invited as well. I felt like… “Oh my I SHOULD go. My whole family is going. They’ll expect there.”

    And then…. I didn’t go. I was scared to take a silent stand. I was scared to simply not go, no explanation, no excuse, just not show up and feel the feelings of fear, regret, and also…. peace. Peace, cause I knew I would be triggered way too much by seeing so many people from my past. Peace, cause I realized I don’t have to go through that anymore. Peace, cause I didn’t take a stand against anyone else, I just took a stand for me. Peace, cause I realized I can take care of me and not put myself in harms way anymore.

    And then I realized, I’m over my ex. I’m over him and all of that.

    And then these lovely men started to come into my life. Other men. Men who reflect back to me the love, care, and concern that I have learned to have for myself. Men who reflect back to me the adoration and the pride I have in my strength and resilience.

    I feel so light and joyful at this time. I am doing well in school and I got a new job that I really love. Life, without pain, seems realistic now.

  64.  #64lovetodance on October 12, 2014 at 2:28 pm


    how clear and concise you have written about your journey…..

    it feels helpful and healing to read of your evolving….may all our journeys span that arc…..

    thank you for sharing what has happened….is happening….

  65.  #65lovetodance on October 12, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    I feel some shame writing about these issues that i think at my age i should have more of a handle on….

    but shame is an emotion that is so toxic to me…so enabling of no growth….so i say to it….no thank you! i will share anyhow with this group…this group dedicated to healing….

    i went to a fabulous wedding yesterday….so filled with love and courage and strength….there was also a poet there who wrote virtually a blessing for anyone with a request…..

    i asked for deep sexy real love to come my way….

    lo and behold …..after the reception alot of us went to a public brewhouse where there was music…..i happened to lean up against the bar and possibly the only attractive to me single man was next to me….

    i leaned back and felt my juiciness…..seems he felt it too…..

    i decided to let my afraid little girl out and to rock and roll…..

    i did feel an attraction but didn’t want to try to make something happen all the while marveling at the prayer the poet had made for me….

    to cut to the chase…..he drove me home….we kissed alot…very nice….

    he was all engines ahead and i wasn’t….i told him i didn’t feel comfortable with this as i didn’t know him…i told him it felt good but too much too soon .

    he understood….left soon after that with my card….

    he is younger than i …..i have tripped out on that all nite …..many stories, voices here….

    i have no idea if he will call….and knowing me whether he does or not… i will go thro much turmoil……

    if he had been older
    if i had felt him more interested in me

    i don’t think i would feel this turmoil now….probably would feel more confident….

    it just seemed so extroadinary that the prayer was made and here was a handsome sexy man….

    i would like to just take it as an experience and not hang anything else on it….

    i have been on a roll of not being treated with respect and care and desire from the men i have let close recently….i really do not want to repeat that…..or continue that….

  66.  #66Andrea on October 12, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    I love what you wrote and what you went through Mandy! I took a belly dancing class a while ago as well. I felt awkward and stiff. I had little movement and no rhythm in my hips. I realized how I’d allowed my.. MY.. hips, belly, thighs, female entry, vagina.. and all… to become locked up.
    I realized that I’d allowed my body to become a vessel for men’s pleasure, scrutiny, and “use”. Ugh feelings.
    I’m still on that journey to unlocking that sacred feminine and claiming back my own body.
    I feel inspired by your post to get back into yoga and maybe I’ll try belly dancing again. I want to… love me, all of me.. again. (or maybe for once)

  67.  #67prplpsn28 on October 12, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    Violette 47…thank you. Tho I still have my days I am feeling better.

    So last night while I was out of town enjoying my Aunts big bash, I received a text from H. After 4 weeks….why? He was just talking about the Blackhawks hockey game that we are both fans of. Asked if I was watching and I said no I was out of town. He kept me updated on the score. Again I kept my responses short and simple. Why does he do this?! Ugh

  68.  #68Starla on October 12, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    I don’t feel interested in men right now. I do feel interested in wondering when the right man will come along, but I don’t actually feel compelled to go looking for him. This is a huge change for me compared to how it always used to be. I have never been this single and date-less in my adult life. It is by choice. Sometimes I do long for romantic male companionship, but then I quickly get distracted by my incredible life and forget all about that. Mostly, dating and relationship sound like a burden. I have even started thinking about how I perhaps never want to get married and could care less if it all happens for me. I just want to be successful and happy and artistic. Who cares about a man. I don’t need or want one, unless he’s my soulmate.

    On the other side of this coin, is “I’m not good enough for a good relationship to work,” but again, I get quickly distracted and forget all about that too.

  69.  #69Azure Blu on October 12, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    lovetodance #64
    Ohhh… what a lovely evening!!!
    To have a romantic, handsome mans attention
    directly after asking out loud for it!! :-))
    Nothing better than goodnight kisses!!
    I feel YOU blossoming as you share
    Your wonderful journey!!

  70.  #70Azure Blu on October 12, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Of course he is still contacting YOU…
    You’re a fabulous, beautiful goddess
    You are sounding soo good.
    Stay YOUR course… and LOVE YOu…
    You want the whole cake!! :-))

  71.  #71Azure Blu on October 12, 2014 at 9:23 pm

    Mandy #54
    Lovely Siren,,, such a great sharing of YOUR story…
    I understand about wanting things to happen a week ago!!!
    I too have been working on slowing it all down…
    a good reminder…
    “enjoy MY journey”

  72.  #72Indigo on October 12, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    I have not been feeling very feminine recently. Been up in a lot of masculine energy – plotting, planning, getting things done, scheming, budgeting, working, thinking… it hasn’t felt very good. It always interests me to know the “why” of something, to get to the root.

    Yesterday I tried to love on myself a bit. Said a whole lot of feelings to D that needed to be said, and realized I didn’t care how he interpreted them or reacted – they NEEDED to be said. And I also did it FOR ME, and I felt better. Got picked up and taken to a sumptuous breakfast by BM, and basically frittered the day away doing enjoyable things for me, planning more décor for my bedroom and lounge, and basically thinking how much I love me. Then I read Andrea’s post.

    I fell into a lovely soft sleep feeling strong last night, and then woke up in the early hours of this morning with the answer to why I’ve been feeling so masculine and why it hasn’t felt good. It just dawned on me: I haven’t been taking very good care of me. I’ve been denying myself some of my heart’s desires. In one area of my life I have been putting myself into a situation over and over again which not only doesn’t feel good, it feels TERRIBLE – my inner spirit which usually speaks so softly and gently to me, has been practically screaming “get me out of here!” And I’ve kept putting myself in that situation, plotting and scheming how I can make it better, when it just plain doesn’t feel good.

    What Andrea said about learning to adore herself and treat herself so well – yes, this is what I have been doing, to the point that I can feel it ACUTELY when I am in a situation which feels bad, which doesn’t treat me well.

    Someone said to me recently “there are consequences” and at the time it seemed like such a bizarre thing at the time to say – but now I see the relevance of it for me. There are consequences to me putting myself in a bad-feeling situation, and those consequences have to do with pain to myself.

    It’s time to stop the plotting and planning and thinking, and follow what feels good. To fill my life with sunshine and things that make me feel good and people who wish me well and treat me well. That’s what I want for myself. The right man will come when the time is right, and not because through my overthinking, I bend myself into a pretzel trying to make a bad-feeling situation feel good.

  73.  #73Azure Blu on October 13, 2014 at 1:02 am

    ((((Indigo))) #72
    Ahhh… lovely Siren…
    I feel badly that you are feeling terrible about a situation…
    YOU sound strong… You listening to YOU
    AND lOVING YOU by standing up for what YOU need.
    “There are consequences” to YOU taking care of YOU…
    Good consequences although they don’t always feel good in the beginning…
    I feel good reading what you have shared here…

    the bending myself into a pretzel is always a thing that comes easy to me and I must be diligent to not let it happen…
    “there are consequences” to this also
    Sooner…. OR…. later… i can make MY choice…

  74.  #74Daria on October 13, 2014 at 3:55 am

    yay this post made me feel secure and 🙂

  75.  #75Indigo on October 13, 2014 at 4:42 am

    Thank you, Azure Blu.

    In a way it’s good, to bring me back to myself.


  76.  #76Vicky on October 13, 2014 at 8:34 am

    I got one for you Rori, I have been in a marriage for over 22 years he’s cheated on me I tried to get over it and it didn’t happen instead I now can care less If he has someone else or not, now here’s the problem, I am involve with a guy I know I am in love with and a lot of different things happen that confuses me.. I know I am still married and I have told this other guy I wanted to leave the relationship I am in now cause I am no longer in love with my husband other wise how could I be with someone else? No not revenge that’s not how I am, any how the other guy says he wont make a commitment cause I’m married, but I’ve also told him I wanted out of the relationship with my husband, and another thing when we are to gather he refuses to spend the night? He isn’t married but lives with his relatives. Its like one min he loves me then the next he doesn’t. How am I to be sure? I do not want to walk away from my responsibilities to my children and everything I have here if he doesn’t love me as much as I love him. My Children are 15 and older.

  77.  #77Kim on October 13, 2014 at 9:55 am

    Kath, I read the post on previous thread…whoa. Eeek!
    Yes, I see that a little with MoM and his sister, in fact they did remind me of children a little..teenagers…and yes, no surprise none of them has been married or had a relationship for yeeeeeaaarsssss.

    I am not here to change anyone. I can take it or leave it…..but yeah, I need a mature relationship.
    It’s all ok for dating and having fun but if things never progress I will feel turned off sooner rather than later.

    I decided to go to a football game and boating with him this weekend, but I definiteky exploded on him in the car to the boating. I told him exactly how I felt and that I am not having a kindergarten relationship and I am keeping my options open therefore….he looked shocked and he got really quiet.
    I didn’t care.

    I had a blast with 8 guys at the football game, him included. Totally spoilt rotten, free ticket, free food and drink and waited on…lol..I am sure he thought ‘what have I done’ at some point…bwahahaha…I had the bestest time.
    I am so busy again this week, doubt I’ll have time for a date.
    He is about to find out what non-committal really looks like he he.

  78.  #78IamHis on October 13, 2014 at 10:26 am

    I feel so stuck in the Targetting Mr. Right stage of relationships. I felt shocked @ how aggressive responding to men “should be. ” The intense eye contact and how you have to hold it. & I know, all that makes him think is “she likes me” but I feel so scared the way guys respond to that…so excited and I feel so scared of their expectations and so embarrassed by my lack of experience. I always want to run away. I did that with Cute Shy Guy and we ended up in the same small group last night and he won’t even look at me!

    & with another guy, he got so excited, it felt so clingy, I felt turned off and wanted my space and now it’s been so long I don’t think he thinks I’m interested anymore. I’ve been ignoring him when we have run into each other, why do I do that? I miss him and wish we could just hang out and take things slow.

  79.  #79Sassy on October 13, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    It feels very painful to realize that, at the end of the day, he doesn’t really want me anymore or to pursue continuing any type of relationship. Even though it’s been off and on, up and down and back and forth over the course of 5 years, I really didn’t believe it would be finished. How do I come to terms with that? How do I put my love and care for him on the back burner and move forward? Ugh

  80.  #80a woman on October 13, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Rori, I’ve started CDing and I went out with a guy. The date itself was great, however, I don’t feel attracted to him at all. Over our chats he asked if I want to have a relationship with him or no, which felt very needy to me. After him pushing this question I said yeah, I would like to try. But- I can’t imagine kissing him. Even when he sends me text-kisses I get this yuck feeling in my gut instead of butterflies. We are going on our second date soon, which I don’t really like to, but I’m pushing myself. There aren’t a lot of men in my rotation yet, because of being extra busy. He is the only man I actually “date” at the moment, and is a good candidate to practice the tools on. That’s why I want to keep him just yet, so I don’t cling back to my ex who is moving on. If I’m gonna be honest with this guy he won’t be OK with seeing me again. So, Rori, what do you think about “using” a man like this if I need to, and not being too honest about my intentions.

    Thank you

  81.  #81Mandy on October 13, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    Venting here – sheer venting – Boy I feel the tenseness building.

    I’m worrying more and more about being neglected longer and longer. It’s like I thought I just fixed this, I thought J and I just had this discussion, a million times.

    I don’t understand why he keeps going back to neglecting me sexually. I don’t understand that he doesn’t get it that I need sex on a semi-regular basis. I thought I’ve said this until I was blue in the face. This morning I feel angry about it…again…

    Maybe he’s still drinking too much beer at night (we’re talking like six) to be able to have an erection…ever. I’m really sick and tired of this and I want to scream at him and say what the hell is wrong with you? Even though I know I can’t do that and it wouldn’t work.

    I’m thinking of saying “I want this, can we set a date for it”. But I feel like I’m setting myself up for more disappointment. But I will probably try anyway.

    Counseling for him is hard to get right now because he deals with sliding scale cost piece-of-crap places like CODAC who do NOTHING. His doctor will tell him the same thing, that he’s drinking too much, but he will just keep doing it…

    There’s also sinking into my feelings and just focusing on me. I had better try real hard today to be nice to myself, and maybe see a friend or something.

    Sad…angry…sad and angry.

  82.  #82Tracy on October 13, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Hi Rori and the ladies here.
    Rori, I am in a painful situation here. My boyfriend of 4.5 years and I had a fight and we had a chat today and he told me he wants to leave and move out of my house. I am devastated. I cried and cried and told him that it is ok as long as he is sure and that if he leaves then there’s no way back form him with me because we have broken up 3 times in the past. I don’t know what to do! We have been having some arguments event my and have not been completely happy with each other. I didn’t expect him to want to leave me though. I am shocked and devastated. Right now I have come upstairs and he is downstairs. He said he was looking for houses today after work to move into. This is so sudden and seems the wrong decision to me. What would you suggest? I don’t want to seem desperate.

  83.  #83Veronica on October 13, 2014 at 2:55 pm


  84.  #84Starla on October 13, 2014 at 4:30 pm

    Sassy, 78
    I have felt that way twice in my life and tried many things to stop feeling that way, until finally i found that while I was in my belly dance lessons, i never thought about the guy at all. It was such sweet relief. I am also finding that playing in an orchestra is great distraction too now. So what I’m saying is, a hobby that is really gratifying and all engrossing, during which you literally cannot think about your pain and fear because you are coordinating your thoughts with your body to produce something artistically gratifying, might be really good for you right now. Just throw yourself into it completely whenever you have time. Any ideas/things you’re already doing?

  85.  #85Azure Blu on October 13, 2014 at 4:34 pm

    Darling Siren,
    Sooo lovely to see you on here!!
    How are things with you and Funny going?
    HOw is YOUr life?

  86.  #86Sassy on October 13, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    First off, I’m feeling so happy to see you here. Certainly not because of anything painful that brought you back, just that I’ve missed your voice!
    Anyway, thank you. I do need to distract my thoughts. Right now what is distracting me is another client so my work schedule is filling up. And, as always, my daughters and grandkids take up a lot of time.
    I do love your ideas about the mind/body coordination and will look into finding more to keep me occupied.

  87.  #87Starla on October 13, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    hehe don’t worry – nothing painful. well no more than uuuusual.

  88.  #88Linda on October 13, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    I am feeling like I never want a man in my life again.
    EVER! I can live WITHOUT the issues they bring into my life and it is just fine by me for the rest of my life!

    This issue I am in the midst with the man I hired to do work at my house has pretty much sent me over the edge.

    I have this sour feeling of disgust for the whole lot of them. What good have they done for me really? They are ALL a royal pain in the A$$ !

    I am SICK of unauthentic men with NO integrity, who lie, cheat, are users, take advantage, belittle, bully and tell you one thing and do another. I have NO room in my life any more of this crap!

    I am tired of dealing with conflict. I am tired of being pushed and pushed. ENOUGH is ENOUGH

  89.  #89Starla on October 13, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    The blog sure is quieter lately. What happened?

  90.  #90Rori Raye on October 13, 2014 at 7:53 pm

    Tracy – You need private coaching ASAP. Go check out this list where you can get coached for free by any one of my RRRCT Trainees for one session (find one you like and STAY with them – you can FIX THIS!!!!: https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/free-coaching-with-my-new-rori-raye-coach-trainees/

    Love, Rori

  91.  #91Rori Raye on October 13, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    a woman – I know I’ve been saying this all day – but you need some help to get this going correctly so it works! Try one or all of my new RRRCT trainees: https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/free-coaching-with-my-new-rori-raye-coach-trainees/ Love, Rori

  92.  #92Rori Raye on October 13, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Vicky – if you want out of your marriage – then you have to get out without this man as “backup” – he already doesn’t seem to be reliable on that. He likes it just the way it is – commitment-free with a married woman.

    If you like being in the marriage and being polyamorous – then just go with that! Enjoy your marriage in the ways you enjoy it, and enjoy your lover in the ways you enjoy him! Don’t try to “solve” something that doesn’t need a solution!. If what you want is to be in a relationship with a man where there’s real love, intimacy and trust – it’s likely neither of these men – and so you’d have to start from scratch.

    To me – it sounds like you have a nice thing going, and that only your “opinions” about it are what’s making it less enjoyable than it might be.

    Love, Rori

  93.  #93Millie on October 13, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    Andrea– I never tire of saying I just LOVE reading your posts. Your response to Bob and your processing of “old Andrea” and “new Andrea” amazed me. I wouldn’t have thought there was anything wrong with your first response as it was an authentic feeling message, but your second response was even better because you felt OK with what was, accepted him in the moment exactly as he is and appreciated him. Truly amazing!!

  94.  #94Millie on October 13, 2014 at 8:54 pm

    I’m feeling an interesting trigger….which I didn’t know i had…phone calls. Yes, I love when men phone me, I love the gesture, and if it’s an interesting man, I love talking to him too..but I notice that I feel stressed about returning their calls. About returning anyone’s calls, and even texts sometimes. This man, who I like, is calling and I’m finding myself too busy to answer. I’m at work, I’m out, I’m riding, I’m at a party, I’m resting…As much as I want a relationship, I’m wondering if I even have time?! I don’t want to come across as careless and blowing people off, but I really don’t have time to talk. It’s sounds funny to say that. It triggers me into feeling stressed, pressured, I notice I start wondering what the other person thinks, I worry that my truths are coming across as excuses, I feel hypocritical for wanting people to call, then wishing they just messaged me instead so I could talk on my time. I find myself needing to carve out time to talk. Maybe that’s just the solution, I have to PLAN when my phone availability is, just like I plan everything else in my life. I haven’t really had to make room for a man or for phone calls, they haven’t been there so my time is filled up with other things, things I don’t want to give up. Anyway, I’ll have to work on this because the reality is, I don’t have to feel pressured or obligated when it comes to phone calls. Just enjoy them and if I have time, I have time, if I don’t, I don’t.

  95.  #95Linda on October 13, 2014 at 9:30 pm

    I had such a bad week-end. Sorry I am venting here…

    The contractor pushed my last button Saturday. He did not show up to work as indicated he would. I called him inquiring his status at noon… His reason for not coming this time no nails! OMG REALLY! He then proceeded to unleash this verbal attack….tell me that he was not happy and that he did not appreciate my saying I did not “know what to believe” that NO one would build a barn for the price he was and he was not making any money on it and he couldnt help it if he got sick and how he did not want to have anybody else do the job because he would have to pay them and he wanted it be done right and they way he wanted and wanted me to be happy and have referral business! and blah blah blah…. I was sooo angry I was shaking.

    I pulled the phone away from my ear I thought. …” just hang up make it go away”.. NOPE not gonna hide.

    This was DEJAVU…. yep…just like P and one of his verbal tyriads…. What is my lesson… what is the message here. What skill do I need to develop? Drama Queen infused communication?

    when he was done… I said calmly and Firmly..

    I DO NOT appreciate your attitude or being spoken to this way. I did not quote this job, you did. Nails.. helper… other jobs, profit is NOT my concern. I simply accepted your bid. Hired you to a job that you of your own volition offered to do. I gave you $ in good faith to accomplish it.

    He wanted to launch off again and I shut him down. “Are you coming today?… yes…. ok.

    I just wanted to cry, curl up in someones arms, I wanted to be affirmed, reassured… I wanted someone to fix it and make it all better and ok. But It is only me!. My girl energy looked to my boy energy and then in that moment at my core they were all swirled together and I felt no comfort and raw and overwhelmed.

    I went about my day with what felt like this gapping hole in my side. I felt tears welling, I found myself finger pointy. and NV’s saying.. “you should have been smarter and this would not have happened”… there were lots of other thoughts. I felt sorry for myself… I felt wondering why?… I felt poked, and pushed, and irritated, frustrated and ALONE.

    When I got home he was here. He did not deliver the rest of my wood or materials. He did not have 2 men with him, but a blonde woman (different than the other one that had been with him before) he had constructed one wall and added a layer of flooring and was gathering up his stuff and was leaving!

    I couldn’t believe it !
    I stewed … then dug down to find the last bit of boy energy I had and text….

    Our conversation earlier was very unpleasant and your tone and attitude was very offensive to me. The work that was done today does not even come close to what you said you were going to do and the materials I have paid for the barn job are not here either. Your words and actions do not match. I can only judge by what I have seen demonstrated.
    I would like you to either complete the barn job as specified by our contract by next weekend ending October 19, 2014 or come and remove the partially built structure from my premises by then and refund me the $729 of the $1029 I paid you by either cashiers check or cash. Thanks

    He responded… he was NOT tearing it down and began to list cost of the materials that was there and accused me of trying to cheat and take unfair advantage of him blah blah blah…

    I said… I will NOT pay for bits and pieces of or a partially built barn. The signed quote is what I agreed to and will not deviate from it. I have every confidence that you have the ability to build an excellent structure. The hinderance here as I see it is that you have not come to work on it or stay very long when you do.
    As I said before… I need this project done by next Sunday.. You say it will be done in another 8 hours. Another week should be plenty of time then. It is your choice Proceed and finish the barn or remove the small amount of it.

    He agreed to the finish date and added some other whiney poor misunderstood victumish stuff saying that no judge out there would rule against him…. hmmmm

    I responded… “I am sorry that you are feeling up to par. It has never been my intention to not pay you for your labor or likewise take unfair advantage of you in any way. I simply accepted your bid and am fully willing to uphold my end of the signed agreement.

    I believe communication and integrity with it is important in all relationships whether they are business or personal. I feel I have been patient and accomodating. As a customer I do not feel that it is unreasonable for me to call to get an update or clarification and to expect to be dealt with respectfully when I do.
    With this said and the finish date agreed upon. I look forward to a great barn.

    I am so over this. I dont want to have to go to court.
    But will.

    What a tiring battle for me. sorry this post is so long

  96.  #96Starla on October 13, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Linda, it sounds like you handled that soooo well.

  97.  #97Azure Blu on October 13, 2014 at 10:35 pm

    I feel Your frustration of being ignored and disrespected verbally…

    it looks to me like you did such a great job of calming down the issue and using feeling messages!!!

    I agree with Starla…
    Great job!!! I am hoping he gets the job done for you!!

    I know from friends using contractors to do jobs…
    They have ALLLL struggled with getting the jobs done and things taking MUCH longer than was quoted!

  98.  #98Zia on October 13, 2014 at 11:17 pm

    Sirens… I need to deal with my feelings of irritation, frustration, annoyance. It feels all swirly and yucky and I want to deal with them on my own without projecting onto my man. I know they’re all mine, he has done nothing wrong. Tonight might need to be a night of journalling and finding creative ways to get these feelings out.

  99.  #99Indigo on October 14, 2014 at 12:08 am


    I do not know of a single person who has not had hassles with a builder with this precise type of behaviour. It is bizarre.

    My family and I recently had a similar incident with a builder who came highly recommended, and who started off being very enthusiastic and then all of a sudden was evasive and didn’t do anything. I found myself being frustrated that he could not just be upfront about his willingness/ability to do the job. Thankfully we had not paid him yet.

    I am sorry. Sending you strong vibes and love.

  100.  #100Indigo on October 14, 2014 at 12:14 am


    For me, the only thing that has ever worked is to put him thoroughly on the backburner and focus on self, in the best way possible. Whenever he enters your thoughts, re-direct them gently away from him and onto something else, and slowly your feelings will follow.

    I find it more helpful not to dwell so much on the loss, but rather to focus on how loving and honouring I am being to myself. And instead of missing the times we had together, to rather look forward to the time I can now spend on projects that mean something to me, and on self-care. I have found it’s all in the perspective, and with the right perspective, this does not have to be so hard. Shower yourself with love and surround yourself with people who wish you well.

  101.  #101Tracy on October 14, 2014 at 1:33 am

    Thanks for your response Rori. I have contacted some coaches and none of them are free today. I talked to him again and told him he is making a mistake and he has made a decision one sided. He seemed unconvinced. He was about to pack his things this morning but in the end said that he would come back tonight to talk! I am so confused. He seemed to have no hope, kept saying what is going to change? It’s not going to work,etc.
    I am in a very awkward situation, my family know about this relationship and the extended family also. This puts me in a vulnerable situation and he knows it. He keeps saying that we won’t change and this is how we both are and there is no point prolonging the break up. Do you have any slots for me to call you got private coaching? I have to say I feel hopeless myself now after everything he said and I know you can’t make a man stay with you if he doesn’t want to. Maybe I should have let him move out once and for all? How can I fix this situation and even if he stays, would it be the same? My eyes are all puffy because I have cried so much. I tried to use feeling messages when I talked to in but he was so cold it was like he didn’t care about my feelings anyway. Do I give him space now or do I try to talk to him? I just couldn’t stay cool and feel like I have chased him since last night. This in itself may make him move away from me! On the one hand he said he was confused and wanted this to work but on the other hand he said he has deep issues with me and they are not going to change. I asked him why he didn’t think about my deep issues all the 4 years we were together and before moving in with me. He said we both wanted to move in for a trial. I feel very betrayed and feel such low self esteem right now. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.xxx

  102.  #102Indigo on October 14, 2014 at 2:44 am

    Hi Tracy,

    Why don’t you try Dominique for coaching:


    She is an excellent coach, and I’m sure could help you with this.

  103.  #103Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 3:35 am

    (((Linda))) Poor you – I agree with the others that you are handling it so well and I sincerely hope that he completes it for you so that you can have some peace again. I also know how very overwhelmed I have felt when I’ve had contractors do this to me (well actually only one who put his foot through my bathroom ceiling then left me with no bathroom and no water ha) and how I too then started to beat myself up for choosing the wrong person and I don’t know all sorts of horrible things really about not being very good at life ha ha. What a crazy default pattern that is! But a good one for me to bring ever increasing awareness to and to begin to change. I seem to have a long running script of feeling a bit helpless and powerless. Especially when it comes to behaviours I don’t understand like the behaviours of your contractor. (((((massive hugs to you)))))(((quick, peaceful resolution)))(((wonderful barn)))

  104.  #104Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 3:51 am

    Sassy – I love what Indigo has written in 100. That feels true for me too. I also like Rori’s visualisation of riding on the horse and the feeling of just riding on letting the men be there or not be there as you just keep riding. I’ve played with that one a lot. Sometimes, they’ll be wrapped round me but I keep on riding. Sometimes, they’ll be hanging on at the tail, but I’ll keep on riding. Sometimes, I’ll leave them far behind lying in the dust on the track and keep on riding. I think it’s the movement forward and the attempt to look to the future and leave the past behind that helps me with this visualisation, whilst at the same time accepting that they are still there in my consciousness (until they are not). Also, the feeling of empowerment that comes from me when I imagine riding the horse and cantering into the future.

  105.  #105Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 3:59 am

    101 – Tracey I feel sorry that you haven’t been able to get hold of a coach yet. I hope that you can and one can help you. It feels like, as this action of his has come about suddenly, you feel frightened and panicked. I would feel the same. I wonder if you talk, feeling that energy whether it will be helpful, or whether you need a way of finding some ground beneath your feet first? Do you have any good ways of helping yourself to feel calm and centred? Is there a way of simplifying speeches, or talking, until some of the intensity has dissipated? For example, I feel shaken that this is how you feel, I feel surprised and unsure how to talk about it right now, I would like some time to calm down before we talk, what do you think? – – something like that, so that there is some space with which to regroup yourself (and hopefully talk to a coach!) xxx

  106.  #106Indigo on October 14, 2014 at 4:24 am

    Mandy 81,


    How long has this issue been going on, ie. how long have you been frustrated or grappling with the lack of sex?

  107.  #107lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 4:29 am

    Linda…bravo for your strength, clarity ,integrity in communicating with the contractor…it appears you never were pulled to his level of communication but kept your side of the street so clean! wow! i would love you on my team!

    may your barn get raised completely and to much satisfaction and delight in a timely manner! may you see your incredible ability to move in the world even under difficult circumstances!

  108.  #108lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 4:40 am

    Sophie 104 ,

    I feel appreciaton for your input here…the wonderful image of the horse that i have read about you but you made it come alive for me with your words


    your FM examples for Tracy….powerful and simple

  109.  #109lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 4:45 am

    101 Tracey

    Want you to know I feel your despair and pain right now…

    i am happy you have found your way to siren island…keep reaching out and finding what need….here and wherever there are ones who can listen and support in a healthy and solid way…..

  110.  #110Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 5:00 am

    Thank you love to dance, that feels so nice to hear. How have you been feeling since your last post? Were there any developments after the weekend?

  111.  #111lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 5:20 am

    oh my! sophie…funny you should ask….sitting here putting this young fellow on the horse….behind me….haven’t heard from him and just working on being centered…loving the experience for what it was…trying not to attach meaning to the outcome….

    it would be breaking a pattern for me to not wrap myself in feelings of rejection


    to wrap myself in a beautiful light yet warm klindt like
    tapestry of love, sensuality , firey sultriness and beauty….

    thanks for asking sweet sophie!

  112.  #112Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 5:39 am

    Oohh I need to vent… Chatting to men online I am finding so tiring and stressful and I am NOT getting anyone I particularly fancy or find attractive.. It all seems like so much hard work… What is wrong with me? Argghh!

    I don’t think I’m going to meet anyone, ever. And I’m trying so hard..

    They are just so boring.. And don’t feel any connection to them at all. And then I feel bad! Am I boring? Am I boring because I am NOT interested in them…? That makes me boring right?

    Sorry for venting… Again… A drama queen?! Pfft… I have the monopoly on that. I wish I could do calm & serene…

    Talking of which I wished I could entertain myself more without alcohol and the TV… Why do I love to drink so much?

    My ex-boyfriend never drank and that for ne was a problem. I wish it hadn’t been… I wish if didn’t bother me. Not drinking should be a good thing right?! But he NEVER drank & he never liked going to pubs, not even for a soft drink… In fact his idea of a date was to sit on a park bench.. He was looking for some super woman who never drinks, never needs to let her hair down..
    Gosh I resent him. He made me feel so small & worthless..

    He kept asking me what I wanted? What would make me happy? I would tell him… But then low & behold nothing would change… I would feel sooooo angry with myself for entertaining him…

    I feel so amgry with myself that I can’t say ‘NO’ to him… He just breaks my barriers down every time. Its like I’m pet project…

  113.  #113Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 5:47 am

    yay you Lovetodance 🙂 This is one for me too. My mission is to not get into their heads and do their thinking for them because then I always interpret it in my way which is likely to be a negative voice, rejected way and the truth is we never actually know, and my NV way is usually not what’s going on at all 🙂 And everything is just the way it is (no story). Anddd a flip story anyway would be, ‘look at me!” look how easily I attracted this sexy handsome man! look at me putting in my boundaries as he was moving too fast! Look at me knowing I am high value enough to let him weed himself out if he’s not worthy of me 🙂 Look at me!!!!! And then the move I start cultivating THAT vibe the more the next sexy, handsome man steps up.

    That’s not to say this one won’t still…that was another one that I stay curious about all the time…men’s timelines…there may be a few days delay…often more than a few days delay is too many days delay for me…I stay curious about this all the time and check in

    I have a lot going on at the moment with a CD from my past. He tends to pull back a bit after I’ve seen him and I feel okay about it as I understand it…it is good for me too because we need that distance because we are not each others forever after…I am having to try and keep myself in the moments of this one. Which is excellent practice for cding in general. There is a whole wealth of learning I’m getting from him right now. I feel grateful for it actually.

  114.  #114Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 5:52 am

    113 hmmm I say above it feels okay cos I understand itbut now I feel curious that that is doing his thinking. I guess I feel okay about it because it feels safe enough (and my interpretation for safe enough is I understand it) but I guess, without the story, it feels okay because I feel safe enough. Full Stop.

  115.  #115Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 6:10 am

    ((((waterfall))) I may be way way way off the mark here so forgive me if I am but this is what came up for me when I read your post. All of this is coming from the lens of my own experiences so I hope it doesn’t come across like I’m assuming its the same for you. I just wanted to share. I haven’t drank in 9 years and I used to drink a lot. I would often use the Hemmingway quote that I had to drink people interesting because I found them so boring. Underneath all of that for me was a deep sense of being disconnected from myself and from others. I felt a lot of anger which over the years since not drinking I was able to discover was just hiding deep sadness and grief. Drink had been doing so much for me in terms of safeguarding me from my true feelings, ‘keeping me safe’ in that way, but it had also given me this psuedo identity and I didn’t realise til I stopped that I didn’t know myself at all, what I liked, didn’t like, wanted, didn’t want, I didn’t like myself and didn’t know how to connect with others without drink and connecting with drink was never connecting at all. I only mention this from the things you mention in your post …feelings of ‘something being wrong with you’, questioning if you’re boring, the ex ‘making your feel small and worthless’ questioning if you’re a ‘drama queen’. I know for sure in my life creating drama is one way I unconsciously keep myself disconnected from my true feelings.

    I feel quite eek posting this cos it may be a lot of presumptions or it may trigger and I don’t like that feeling place in myself. I just wondered if any of it resonated or was helpful? xx

  116.  #116Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 6:34 am

    Sophie! No, don’t feel Eeek about what you wrote. It is actually very beautiful. Yes, everything you say is making a LOT of sense to me. You have taken my words that I have used against myself and lovingly tried to relect them back at me, in a way that doesn’t feel jusgemental or scornful. Thank you for that.

    I feel really heard and understood, possibly for the first time in a long time.. I was just sitting here thinking and I had this imagine of digging deeply and looking into ME and suddenly felt quite EXCITED about that.

    I have NEVER felt very worthy, interesting or intelligent. I am not one of these people who can talk about any subject with any authority and I have become more and more shy & inhibited because of this. I often feel myself welling up when talking to people.. I feel like I can’t even hold a conversation most of the time and I can then feel myself start to stammer and stutter and clam up… Lol.. Maybe the alcohol helps me to hide behind all that. When I have a drink in my hand people like me – I am the life & soul of the party… Eewww…. I feel like a jeckyl and hyde character… Hmmmm…. Wow… I just want some confidence hehe !

  117.  #117Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 6:59 am

    Ahhh waterfall I felt teary reading that. I feel happy you feel heard. I identify with the lack of confidence thing – I started to drink in my teens and before drink I couldn’t socialise at all, I just wouldn’t say anything and then after drink I too became ‘the life and soul’ and I also felt Jeckyl and Hyde because I felt like when I drank it wasn’t the real me I suppose ( and I would be loud and wild and fearless ) when really I’m very sensitive and very afraid ha ha x It took me a lot of work but I didn’t feel TRUE confidence until I’d stopped drinking and started being me because then I was able to know and honour who me was a bit more x I guess it was a bit like Rori’s trust yourself..once I kind of knew that if I was genuinely bored for example I would just go home, or if I felt genuinely anxious I would find what felt safe, and I discovered people who I wanted to be around, and I took time to think about what activities I’d really like to do and did them regardless of everyone else. I remember when I’d just stopped drinking and everyone was going to a party and I thought I really don’t want to go, I’ll feel bored and everyone will be drunk and blah blah and what would i like to do? I was living in South America at the time and I took myself to a really dinghy blues club and just sat and felt the music which was amzing and had one of the best nights of my life 🙂 xxx

  118.  #118lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 7:12 am

    sophie sophie sophie….love your interpertation[s]

    do you do byron katies work?

    whether you do or not ….i feel your take on these matters of the heart are so healthy and filled with spaciousness and light….

    i know we all have our dark corners, moments, hours, years….but how you share makes me feel they have bought you far…

    thank you….

    yes not getting into his head [as if i could with any accuracy ha!] says is so well….we are each sovereign countries…..she reminds herself constantly….

    i have visited and lived in the country of self limiting and rejecting thoughts for many years that has bought nothing but more of the same….

    i have applied for and been granted a new visa! i now have begun visiting new countries and seeing and experiencing new vistas….

    of course the old country will always be behind me…re-minding me of what i have learned, where i have come from….to value that too….

  119.  #119lovetodance on October 14, 2014 at 7:19 am


    thank you for your honesty and vunerability in sharing

    and sophie….thank you for your sharing and insight….

    all this makes me feel so tender and resonate with your reflections and insights

    alcohol has not been my accomplice…but negative feelings about myself has certainly been a habit….a bad self destructive one that has hurt….

    being human is no easy task…some say we have asked for this incarnation because we are capable of the fire of it….

    yes…it does feel like fire many times…

    much love and support to you waterfall….to all of us as we experience this transformation….

  120.  #120Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Yes lovetodance! New vistas! I find it so beautiful when us women (men too) recognise we deserve more love for and from ourselves and strive for that. That is commitment to our own value. Even applying for that visa is such a monumental achievement (in my opinion :))

    I dip in and out of Katie’s work – it hasn’t become ‘the one’ for me yet, but sometimes I gain insight from it, and often a teaching will linger in the background for a while and then at a later date it’ll really speak to me.

    Thank you for your kind affirmations. Your words feel so warming…the years probably have brought me far but I still have a long, long way to go I suspect. My areas for healing (especially around men, and worth, and money, and non-destructive behaviours, and health ha ha, so basically worth) seem to cut very, very deep. Isn’t it so much easier to speak wisdom than to live it? ha ha xxx

  121.  #121Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 7:28 am

    Sophie, yes, I hear you! I think the truth of the matter is that I am pushing myself to my limit at the moment.

    For years I hung around with people and drunk and I look back now and realise that I was very, very bored. In my mind they were a boring group to me – we had nothing in common apart from University and our jobs etc… But at the time I was too blind to see this and I tried to fit in for years and years.

    I then started to do some inner work on myself and my mental state and after the process of a year or two I plainly saw that ALL of these people were WRONG for me, and I literally ditched them over night. Yet, even writing this makes me feel sad for my past life. It was truly like I was reborn.

    I then started to SEEK out people who I found interesting. And, boy what a journey I have been on. Over the last few years I have met so many amazing and remarkable people.

    Yet, I still feel like an outsider. I DO not want my old life back. I do not want to be around people constantly talking about looks and image and relationships etc.. Yet the people who I talk to now are fantastic, and fabulous but completely out of my league and I often feel a fraud when I spend time with them.

    Most of them are go getting people who NEVER sit still. They NEVER watch television, they never drink. They all lead amazingly healthy, action packed lives. Literally going from one place to another every weekend…

    I do feel in awe of these people, and the same time unworthy.. Sometimes I have trouble looking people in the eye, and I often feel they can be quick to dismiss me or pass judgement. What I am trying to say is I often feel that they are judging me and finding me unworthy..

    When I was with my boyfriend he would constantly try to build my confidence up. And I believe he did mean well. But something felt very wrong for me. He is an over achiever and always over succeeds ar everything he does. He would always be giving me pep talks and I would always be a bag of nerves by the end of them. Worried I would disappoint. Worried I would fail….

    I think I like the idea of being good at things but NEVER put in the hard work… I guess because in the past I have never felt rewarded or praised. There always seems to be another harder or higher mountain to climb in the distance…

    I feel like I am one of these people who no matter how hard I work no-one will ever take any notice. I always have this feeling that no-one is ever IMPRESSED by me… I am just a cog in a wheel going round and round… I am misses nobody… I always feel I could cycle around the world naked and nobody would notice…

    Pffft… Yet other people seem to be born successful. They list off a reel of achievements and everyone applauds. Why NOT me?! I feel sad…

  122.  #122Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 7:33 am

    I feel like the person at a dinner party who whenever they speak someone talks over them haha

  123.  #123Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 7:38 am

    Lol, that reminds me of a wedding I went to years ago. The table that I was sat on everyone seemed to ‘click’ apart from me. They were all chatting over me and I felt incredibly left out. Even when I did try and speak I was either scorned, ignored or talked down too. By the end of it I was nearly crying having to endure so much humiliation. In the end I decided to never go to a wedding again. I felt like I a complete spare part that didn’t fit in…

  124.  #124Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 7:58 am

    121 – Waterfall I want to give you a big hug. ‘Way out of your league’ – who says???!!!! 🙂 Is it them judging you as unworthy or you, judging yourself? Are you trying to hard to be ‘like them’ when really you could be ‘like YOU!’ 🙂

    I’m doing a pep talk now so apologies if it feels like that 🙂 “I feel like I am one of these people who no matter how hard I work no-one will ever take any notice. I always have this feeling that no-one is ever IMPRESSED by me… I am just a cog in a wheel going round and round… I am misses nobody… I always feel I could cycle around the world naked and nobody would notice…”

    This feels like a deep, script/belief that you’re operating from here (and then you’re going to seek/see evidence of it everywhere). I listened to a seminar on women’s empowerment yesterday on a website called evolving wisdom yesterday – it felt resonant and i felt excited by it. It was talking bout this and how to flip it.

    I feel desperate to challenge you to cycle round the world naked and see if anyone notices hee hee hee – bet that would transform how you feel about yourself 🙂 xx


  125.  #125Sophie on October 14, 2014 at 8:01 am

    123 – these kind of scenarios feel truly yuk – if I come across them now, I just know they are not nice people I want to spend time with. I may even be brave enough these days to say, I don’t feel good at this table, I’m moving over here…or going home’. I don’t see their behaviour as an indication of me or who I am, more as an indication of them and who they are. Or maybe as us just not being a good fit (like with men).

  126.  #126Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Waterfall – Have you ever seen my series of articles on the ultra-sensitive woman? What you speak of here seems to be a common thread among the ultra-sensitive, not feeling as though she fits in well let alone easily, feeling different, all alone in the world sometimes, maybe often, maybe feeling easily overwhelmed, people, sensations feeling too much, and so on.

    There are four in the series, and I’m working on a fifth as we speak.



  127.  #127Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 8:53 am

  128.  #128Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 8:53 am

  129.  #130Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 8:55 am

    Tracey – 101 – I’m so sorry for your confusion and pain. There’s so much going on here, too much to address here plus I would want and need more information before being able to offer you my thoughts and suggestions. Please feel free to contact me directly to set up a time to talk if this feels right for you.


    In the meantime, I send you much love.


  130.  #131Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Dominique, thank you so much! I’ll read with great interest. It is a massive trigger for me to be called “ultra sensitive”. I always got moaned at as a child for being “too sensitive”.. Lol, it is bringing up emotions so that is a GOOD thing…

  131.  #132Indigo on October 14, 2014 at 9:48 am


    Being “ultra sensitive” is not a bad thing at all – there are some elements in society which may label it undesirable, because in general the world is geared towards those who are tough, outgoing, self-confident, high energy.

    Ultra sensitive people are not like this, but being sensitive comes with great gifts of its own – empathy, compassion, deep thought, the ability to understand people and animals, creativity… to name a few. Exploring the gifts of being sensitive is a beautiful and lifelong journey and I encourage you to learn to love and embrace the way you are. x

  132.  #133Mandy on October 14, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Indigo, #106 –

    Thank you for caring, I do mean that…
    Here’s my deal – It has been going on since about half a year after we started dating, and so I’ve basically been dealing with it for 1 1/2 years, and it is an ebb and flow…sometimes the sex will be there if I’m lucky, other times it is gone. It comes around once every blue moon…no kidding…
    He has a strange behavior of not wanting to go near sex sometimes. He even thinks it’s gross sometimes. It’s like he gets revved up once or twice in one particular month, and then can go seven months without it completely. That’s the pattern, twice in one particular month, then nothing for half a year.

    My therapist said he may have had a more abusive past than hes willing to let me know of, that there’s definitely something going on psychologically there with him, and that he needs counseling. Only thing is the counselors he can get through CODAC or ACCCHS (Arizona health insurance) are crap – even my therapist said so…But there’s a spark of hope…Janet, my therapist, said he could come in with me, and we could bill it as family counseling. I do plan on doing this once my deductible is covered (jeez…so stressed about that, I feel so frustrated, all I want is help and I have to pay through the nose to get it, but I’m going to do it.)

    So therapy, couples therapy, is in order for us but it will take a long while to get going and so in the meanwhile, I just have to stay on board with loving the ever living stuffing out of myself, and staying with not pressuring him or yelling at him about it. He’s been very lovey-dovey lately though, when we watch a movie, he leans his head on me sweetly, and that’s unusual for him, he’s very reserved, quiet and doesn’t show much emotion or energy, as that is his personality type, and I totally chose him because of it, because he wasn’t leaning too far forward when I met him, which would’ve scared me away. He was just quiet sweet J, and for some reason after the exciting dating part of our situation he stopped wanting sex.

    I will say this – every time I’ve managed to slow way down and just let go of it, he’s come around, but it is SO hard on me, my mom and friends worry about me having a relationship in which the basics of the relationship are withheld. My mom says she wish I didn’t have to go through this. She also says it’s because he drinks too much beer too. My therapist said the same thing.

    As for the WONDERFUL Sirens on this blog who’ve helped me immensely, they have helped me straighten out a few things – I will think something is the real problem when in fact perhaps it’s something else…my anxiety can get the best of me and they’ve taught me to be aware of it…and also, to remember my man’s humanness, to ask, take no for an answer and not sound like a dominatrix. And lean way way way way back. Just need to be reminded of how to treat myself like a Queen Siren, super-uber gloriously, like how Rori speaks of it…when she speaks of it, she makes it sound SO much better than even having a man! 🙂

    I feel like I need constant coaching on this, like if one of the coaches or Dominique or Rori lived in my town, lol, you bet I’d be seeing them as a therapist three times a week! I have a tendency to forget about some lessons I’ve learned and will have to go back and remember them, because I will forget and accidentally slip back into my old ways, as Rori mentions in Love Scripts. She was so right on with that and I feel so grateful she’s so good at noticing those details and helping us out with them.

    Ah. well at least there’s this, dearest Indigo…he is a good man, he loves me and he always wants to work it out, so there’s that, and also, it has nothing to do with me not being gorgeous and awesome and I MUST remember that! 🙂 I wish sex didn’t give us such an ego boost, because it’s almost like society tells us we’re losers if we don’t have it three times a week! 😛

    Sex, sex, sex…:P BAH. Know what the FUNNIEST part is? I’m on anti-depressants and I can’t even climax with another person, so that’s even another issue I’d have to tackle after that! Sexual dysfunction city, man…I’m sorry…that just makes me have to chuckle in spite of it all…yikes…he and I are two of a kind…lol…

    But thanks for caring 🙂 It means a lot Indigo, and obviously you noticed I needed to say something 🙂

  133.  #134Waterfall on October 14, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Dominique – thank you, they are lovely articles that I think I will need to come back to a lot xx

  134.  #135Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 11:20 am

    You are so welcome Waterfall. Try to embrace your amazing and wonderful uniqueness which is your sensitivity. It IS a gift.


  135.  #136prplpsn28 on October 14, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    Not sure why but today hasn’t been a good day for me emotionally 🙁

  136.  #137Dominique on October 14, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Purple – I’m so sorry you’re not feeling so great today.

    Even when there’s nothing special going on emotionally in your life, you will still experience ALL kinds of emotions, good feeling ones, not so good feeling ones. This is part of the human experience. And I think it’s wonderful that you CAN feel them, that you’re not numb.

    Can you try sinking into them, feeling them fully, all of their edges and curves, the smoothness, the roughness, the crevices, the holes, the hillocks, the mountains, ALL of it. Can you give all of this space to flow within you to either integrate or move on out?

    Love to you.


  137.  #138Linda on October 14, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Thank you ladies for your support and affirmations.

    I wish it what I said would have made a difference, caused a shift or something! … but nothing has changed. He has not showed up for the last 3 days.

  138.  #139Sassy on October 14, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    Indigo and Sophie,

    Thank you for your kind words of support. I truly appreciate it.
    Keeping my thoughts occupied and moving them aside are a challenge, especially when I climb into bed at night or when I wake up in the middle of the night. I will get thru this though.

  139.  #140Sassy on October 14, 2014 at 2:16 pm


    Your conversation with the contractor was amazing.
    I don’t know what state you live in, but do contractors have to be licensed? If so, contact the state licensing board and file a complaint. If not, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and/or if worse comes to worse, call your local news team. They usually have people that will go after bad contractors public ally. Just some suggestions…

  140.  #141Sassy on October 14, 2014 at 2:25 pm


    You are so right about traits of us ultra-sensitives!
    It is a wonderful gift. I cannot imagine not having so much empathy for others.
    It feels as if we experience the miracles of nature and our animals on a deeper level.

  141.  #142Starla on October 14, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    I am starting to feel very concerned about my job search. I am at my current company where sexual harassment became an issue for me. Before anyone “goes there,” I am on the losing end of this battle and have chosen to leave the company. The company is allowing me to work there until I find a different job, but I’m not having great luck with that. Sigh. Feeling alone and scared.

  142.  #143Azure Blu on October 14, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    ((((Starla)))) #142
    I feel sad for you being such an awkward position at your job…

    I have been in that place several times in my jobs… It isn’t easy…
    Wishing you LOTS of luck…
    I hope you find a job soon darling Siren!

  143.  #144Starla on October 14, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    Thank you, Azure Blu. I actually have a job on the hook right now, but the recruiter I’m working with seems kind of shady. I’m not sure if this is a job I want to take. The pay is incredible, but I think he’s overselling me to the company and setting me up to take a position I may not actually have the experience to succeed in.

  144.  #145Sassy on October 14, 2014 at 5:00 pm


    I feel confident you will find the right fit.
    Try not to let your current situation impede your search.
    Does your career type allow for setting up your own business?

    All will work out exactly the way it’s supposed to.

  145.  #146Starla on October 14, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    Sassy, yes, there are a number of avenues I could take for starting my own business, but I don’t have the savings or client base to pull it off. I am working towards that long term, though! 🙂

  146.  #147Violette on October 14, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Starla your post 68 made me think of an interview I read today with a beautiful 46 year old foreign actress who said that ugliness is being in the wrong company, and as she is alone/single she is in good company (therefore feeling beautiful). It struck me as a wonderful place to be in.

  147.  #148Violette on October 14, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    I spent the night with AD last night for the first time. We had like 4 major conversations that were a lot to digest.
    One, I have an STD I had to tell him about. Two he has issues with getting it up( a bigtime trigger for me as I need to be the center of attention in bed!), and three he told me his family is in the mafia. That freaked me out. This morning I told him I felt uncomfortable being near organized crime, and he said his whole family has legal businesses and are not in the mafia, but he thinks his dad sells to some people who are in the mafia. I did not know what he was talking about so I just told him I don’t want that in my life and I don’t want to be around it.

    Uh, sometimes I don’t understand what he’s saying, he says opposite things.

    Also he smokes pot and I told him I don’t want to be around it, and he was at his car and came back smelling like pot, saying he did it away from me. Ugh. Grose feelings. I don’t like when I guy looks all distant and drugged.

    AND…the condo came up again. He showed me the building in his town where he wants to get a condo, again. And this time he said he has to live in his town to be near his son for the next 4 years. I thanked him for finally being honest and said I don’t want to live in his town, I just changed my whole life to move to my town, and my whole life is there.

    Little does he know my goal is to live 6 months of the year abroad!

    We are so different.

    But he took me apple picking, and we carved a pumpkin, and I do feel myself falling in love with him. He wants to take care of me, like financially. It sounds so romantic when he talks about it. It is something I do not want at all, because I need my financial independence big time, but he says he wants to marry me and is so in love with me.

    Seeing him naked…there were parts of his body I found unattractive, and some that were nice. I felt a little jealous that he found my body so hot, and I didn’t get to have that with him.

    So much to digest. It’s all moving so fast I want to throw up a little, but I do like having him around.

  148.  #149Violette on October 14, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    AD is not like to idea of the man I’d like to marry. The guy I’d like to marry is nerdy, intellectual, culturally sophisticated, worldly, wants to live where I want to live, no pesky ex wife with kids together, someone I find witty and brilliant who makes me laugh.

    AD is romantic, loyal, affectionate, attentive, rich, not bad looking, up for doing fun things, and crazy in love with me.

    He’s not particularly cultured and he says things in front of other people that embarasses me at times. His sense of humor is not funny to me. Sometimes he says things that are outright wrong. I call him on it and he always changes his tune, but it feels tiresome to call him on things.

    In a way I feel disappointed that a wonderful man I want to marry isn’t my perfect ideal.

    I wonder is life always like this? Is it a mistake to chose AD because my ideal man may be out there? Or is that my way of keeping love and intimacy out of my life. Can I bend what happiness looks like for me? Or will this story have a sad ending?

  149.  #150Violette on October 14, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    Feeling things progress with us and become physical and feel more serious has made me feel more serious about what direction I want my life to take. I have felt unfocused without someone to witness my choices. I feel inspired somehow, like a kind of strength and desire to have all I want, now that I have a real relationship in my life, for the first time in 5 years.

  150.  #151Violette on October 14, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    Yeah, I know that the ideal man I have a fantasy about is really about who I want to be. I wish I had a partner to help me be that person, but even if I did it would just be them being them. It’s still up to me to be who I want to be. I don’t need anyone else to make that possible. I actually don’t want that kind of dependency on a romantic partner, feeling like I need them in my life in order to feel like the person I want to be. That can make it really scary to break up. To be on my own. Maybe it’s best to really take people as they are, in no way a reflection on who I am, just someone to practice relationship with. Still staying true to the life that makes me feel alive. And allowing the relationship to unfold in a life of it’s own, that will or won’t last forever.

    ugh, I have so much time! Don’t let him rush me!!

  151.  #152Violette on October 14, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    I want to take responsibility for how I feel about myself, I don’t want to look to a man to fill any void in myself.

  152.  #153Starla on October 14, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    Violette, it seems to me like AD is pretty much everything you *don’t* want in a man, except that he is a man who wants to date you. I say set the bar a little higher for basic standards. You deserve it!

    Now I’m curious — what ARE you looking for in your ideal man? I’d love to hear about it 🙂

  153.  #154Starla on October 14, 2014 at 6:41 pm

    My Ideal Man:

    My ideal man is a critical, free-thinker
    My ideal man has money 😀
    My ideal man is valiant and noble
    My ideal man chooses compassion over judgment
    My ideal man recognizes how awesome I am

    Haha, that all sounds like my recent ex, but we didn’t work out cuz he wasn’t that into it.

    So I should add: My ideal man fees like he won the lottery because I’m with him. No settling for my ideal man.

  154.  #155Violette on October 14, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    Starla he has a lot of qualities I want in a man, romantic, which is pretty rare I’ve found. He brings me flowers, opens my door, says sweet things to me every time we speak. He remembers things I like, is attentive and thoughtful, sweet, stable. I don’t take these things for granted about him.

    Yes there are things that don’t make me all dreamy about him too. They are disappointing to discover. But I feel good in his presence most of the time, I feel safe and secure with him.

    The most important thing is that I can be my full self and not feel like I make him uncomfortable when I shine. We’ll see.

  155.  #156Starla on October 14, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Violette 155, okay 🙂 Sorry for being presumptuous.

  156.  #157neha verma on October 15, 2014 at 2:10 am

    i have a boyfriend and i m in relation with him from 6 months .he says he loves me so much but he is not leaving his ex also but when i leave him he keeps coming back to me then when things go back to normal he again contacts his ex .he says he loves both of us and cant leave anyone . what should i do to make him mine? i love him so much .. he lied to me so many times and went to meet her .and lie to her and come to meet me .pls help me what should i do.

  157.  #158Rachel on October 15, 2014 at 2:43 am

    Hi, I’m in a bit of an odd situation with a guy and am in desperate need of advice!

    Right, lets start from the beginning:

    We met in our first year university, and became the best of friends (no romantic intention whatsoever!) 6 months in we became more interested in eachother romantically, ended in tears on my part as he found himself a girlfriend. We still remained friends. After 2 months of his new relationship ( and copious amounts of alcohol I hasten to add) he cheated on his girlfriend with me, told me he wanted me not her etc. surprise surprise he didnt break up with his girlfriend or even tell her. I got over it, and we got our original friendship back, which is a good job seeing as we live together and have done for the past year! toward the end of our second year of uni he became more flirty again but i ignored it, didnt want to overthink anything, and we were constantly texting over summer. We come back to uni in september and he tells me hes not sure about his relationship anymore he doesnt feel attracted to his gf anymore etc. so im there listening giving him advice like any good friend would and then he says ‘its you, its always been you, i get jealous when i see you with other guys and i want to be with you’. I just said well you still have a girlfriend so nothing can come of it. I doubted everything he said that whole day being as hes sad stuff he didnt mean before,but then he said exactly the same thing to a mutual friend the next day. This bought all of my old feelings back and all i wanted to do was run straight into his arms but i didnt i held off. the next day he called his gf to explain how he was feeling about their relationship and he needed some time apart. Things carried on as normal between us, then a few nights later after copius amonuts of alcohol, we slept ij the same bed and did everything but sleep together, as during the process I came to my senses and told him to stop because he’s still with his gf. the next weekend he went away with his gf and now theyre absolutely fie again and im left looking like a mug. Hes forever apologizing to me formessing me about (hes even been in tears about it) but now im left with strong feelings for him again. I keep going thorugh this vicious cycle with him and i always end up being rejected and hurt. I cant avoid him or not be his friend cause i live with him, and Ive let go of the anger I felt about the situation cause having been down this road before with him i know its far more damaging to me to hold on to it. But I just dont know why he always pulls away. Looking at it realistically Ive loved this guy for the past 2 years. I want to be with him so badly. I just dont know what to do anymore!

    Sorry for the epically long message!

  158.  #159Victoria on October 15, 2014 at 7:14 am

    My ideal man… what a wonderful topic

    1. My ideal man is crazy about me, and tells me he loves me and that I am beautiful ALL THE TIME (yes, I am an attention-seeking narcissist, so what).
    2. He is very smart.
    3. We share sizzling chemistry.
    4. He has a good ability to make money, but sees money as a means and not as an end, and is generous with me.

    That is not too much to ask for, is it?

  159.  #160Indigo on October 15, 2014 at 7:33 am

    Mandy 133,

    I’ve said it before – I feel for you. I cannot imagine not having sex with the man I love/the man I am with.

    Your answers will come to you.


  160.  #161Indigo on October 15, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Sassy 141,

    I absolutely believe this. I often feel like I feel for every spider and gecko and tiny creature that comes across my path. I do embrace it as a gift and can’t imagine being any other way.

  161.  #162lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 7:48 am

    yes…there is a santa claus and here is what he’d bring me…..

    1.a manly man who goes after me with alot of intention, skill and gusto…

    2. who is as smart as me…maybe smarter in same and other ways

    3. who sees my quality, worth and pricelessness

    4. is bambazzled by my beauty, uniqueness, softness, feisty ness and shyness …

    5. who wants very badly to be with me but also needs and respects space between us

    6. who is creative, able to make money and has some.

    7. who is savvy and soulful and funny

    8, who is hot hot hot and just can’t get enough of me, nor i him…and that never fades….just gets stronger…

    8. who is comfortable and confident in his own skin

    9. who is mature and developed enough to know that love is a process, a verb, an adventure and most importantly an opportunity to grow…

    10…probably from the east coast….sorta swarthy and street smart….[ a new one on my list…] who is in good shape and healthy

    11. who is a gentleman…protects me in every way…calls in right timing and never makes me wonder about his love, respect and care for me….

    now i know thats not asking too much! and if this is a miracle i am asking for…well i deserve it!

  162.  #163Veronica on October 15, 2014 at 7:51 am

    Azure Blu – 85 – Azure! Oxoxo I’ve been away from the blog – work, and feeling overwhelmed so that I didn’t know how to say what I needed to say. Things with Funny are going very well – it’s been three months today since our first date. I feel really good in this relationship : ) I can feel the melty love in my eyes when I smile at him and I can see how pleased he is just to be with me. There are other emotions that seem subtle in the sense that they’re quiet and don’t quite announce themselves – like a feeling of pleasure when I see him sleeping in my bed or how happy and relieved my body feels when we hug (like taking a deep breath in).

    I had been feeling ambivalent about how to be when someone is talking to me for what seems a long period of time. I remember that it came up a few threads ago. Funny gets like this – he talks a lot. At first I felt overwhelmed as though my attention span couldn’t stretch that far. Then I felt somewhat dismayed because I wanted to be in conversation, I wanted to participate but I wasn’t in the same headspace at all. Then I felt detached from my sensual self, listening to a lot of intellectual talk. And then I began to feel curious – about my ambivalence and my needing to get up and do something or just hide in a mind-blank; about his talking. So I continued listening, just letting him talk and remaining passively curious about what was happening. It was as though he was trying to talk something out – something he was passionate and very curious about and trying to understand – and I got to watch him do that. My presence mattered in some way. In a way he was involving me and all he needed from me was for me to listen. Then much later, we fell into a conversation about something that I was passionate about and he completely listened, was interested, explored with me. It felt amazing, like I was discovering something – how it felt to be heard in conversation, how easily that happened, what it might be like for him. I didn’t have to form my thoughts into statements that would somehow make it past the boredness/politeness/defensiveness of another’s listening. Instead they felt like my own thoughts/ideas that I was sharing, I could admit my tentative exploring about what I was talking about, I could listen to another’s ideas about what I said without feeling despondent, misheard, dismissed. And what we were talking about enlarged into something compelling and interesting.

  163.  #164Veronica on October 15, 2014 at 7:55 am

    Sophie and Waterfall – I feel awed at the openness with which you discussed your experiences with drinking. I just don’t have the words to describe what I feel when I read your exchanges – something like ‘something very human happened’.

  164.  #165lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 8:07 am

    ohhh and i love playing around with the pronouns….ala the turn around…

    i see my quality, worth and pricelessnes.

    i am bambuzzled by my beauty,softness, feistyness, shyness and uniqueness.

    i want very badly to be with others but also respect my and their need for space

    i am creative and able to make money and have some.

    i am soulfull, savvy and funny

    i am hot hot hot and that just gets stronger

    i am confident and comfortable in my own skin

    i am mature enough to know that love is a verb, a process, and adventure and an opportunity to grow

    theres a part of me that feels i am from the east coast…swarthy and street smart…healthy and in good shape

    i am a strong woman who protects me in every way and never abandons myself to wrong timing and works to care, love and respect myself….

    WOW that is a POWERFULL exercise….hmmmmm

  165.  #166lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 8:13 am

    veronica 161

    what a beautiful description of how you feel with funny…’how happy and relieved my body feels when when we hug…taking a deep breath in’….ohhhh how wonderfull….

    i feel like there is alot for me to learn and ponder in your experiment and experience of listening…your curiousity in the process. and what it brought you….!

  166.  #167lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 8:44 am

    i feel that i have been very chatty on this blog recently and feel a bit uncomfortable with so much sharing…i feel vunerable and afraid i will be judged or turn people off…. yet i continue to share…my need stronger than my fears….

    want my wisdom and heart knowledge to be stronger than my ego’s needs to be re affirmed re-assured….to get the attentions of a man who i am pretty sure is not stepping up for whatever his reasons…

    to accept that he is not the right man even to date…otherwise he would be in front of me…

    its the little girl in me who just wants love and to get what she needs….its the woman in me who just wants love and get what she needs…

    but that will come with the right men…mens….and i so know how to give it to myself…i just know how wonderful it is to recieve it from someone i feel attracted to….
    i get tired of always giving it , resourcing it from myself…i feel sad finding myself in this challenging place again…..

    in all honesty…i feel i was strong yet soft with this man ….i did not push ….just flowed….and made boundaries that felt true and healthy to me….it was an attraction of the moment…a magical moment that was invoked….something i want ed to happen that night… maybe a harbinger of whats to come….maybe not that man…but the one or ones that are to come….

  167.  #168Vicki on October 15, 2014 at 9:20 am

    I have Ignored him . Told him about a friend I was going to see in a couple weeks he asked if he could go with me said if I take him with me that he wouldn’t mind.. I don’t get it.He says he can’t stop me from seeing other people but he doesn’t want me to be with certain others. Like this guy asked me out for a drink and he found out said you better not be with XXX XXX I said why not .. I got no reply till I said I was safe at home and the reply I got was “Good” confusing!!!!

  168.  #169Sophie on October 15, 2014 at 9:26 am

    I feel like that sometimes too Lovetodance with sharing- I feel interested about that too – I guess sometimes I feel open, then I pull back, then I feel open. I wonder if I do that with men too. Maybe.

    Rori wrote a post ages ago (maybe years) called ‘let your squeaky voice speak’ – funny how sometimes, one line, message, will stay with me. That one did, it comes up for me quite a lot when I start to feel insecure or uncomfortable about sharing.

    I, for one,love what you share. I love the poetic way you use your words. And lovetodance seems a very good name because its like your words dance 🙂 for me.

    ((((veronica))) so beautiful. it feels like a deep breath – yes! I know that feeling – it feels amazing!

    Linda, I really feel for you. I am feeling so flat today. Everything feels so clogged up in my life, no flow. That’s not true. Not everything but work and money and then that impacts a lot on moving forward. I just had a whole round of tying up financial things from the old house but one company took £500 from me by mistake and have not returned it and so I am having to chase them and i’m paying interest on the money. Another started action against me for money owed but when I did the calculations I don’t owe them money, they owe it to me. They are now not responding to my correspondence. And previously I made that complaint to the police (and they did respond and action it which was great) but now i’m wondering if I need to complain to these companies and I feel so bored with complaining and so bored with people not doing what they say they’ll do and so bored with the power imbalances which mean it is very easy for others to take money not so easy to get it back.

    And I’ve listed things for sell – good things – which aren’t selling. And, I’ve applied for a ton of freelance work but nothing coming through yet. And finding a position overseas to work is less freeflowing than I’d originally thought too.

    I don’t want to get stuck in negative thinking about money and ‘how it is for me’ and nothing going right but I feel like there’s a brick wall right now and I wish I could breakthrough! So I feel frustrated and flat and blah today.

    Other things feel good, relationships are good, I have a warm, comfortable place to stay, I have some time for my own physical and mental care which feels amazing. Some time to re-group. which is such a blessing. I could just do with aligning with some of the money energy now please 🙂

  169.  #170lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 10:24 am


    lovely siren….i feel wrapped in comfort and support you your response[es] to me and others….thank you…

    letting one’s [squeaky voice out] like a wheel that needs oiling….and it lubricates itself ….it seems…

    i feel happy to hear of how you stood up for yourself with the companies that owed you money yet accused you of owing them! what dishonesty and yuckness on their part…and that the police did their job! wow!

    i feel happy that other things feel good….and i feel so glad you have the time to care for yourself mentally and physically…

    may the universe align with your beautiful creativity in manifesting jobs and money for you….to support you in a way that enables your energy to move fully in the world and makes you feel GOOD!

  170.  #171lovetodance on October 15, 2014 at 10:28 am

    ps 167 i meant

    …by YOUR responses to me and others


    yes,the opening up and then pulling back and wondering if one does that with men also….
    i resonate with that…

    and of course it feels that they do that with me….
    sooo human


    i so do love to dance and i love the image of how i express myself with words feels like dancing to you….oh thank you sophie

  171.  #172Sophie on October 15, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Thank you lovetodance 🙂 it always feels nice to feel heard

    ‘may the universe align with your beautiful creativity in manifesting jobs and money for you….to support you in a way that enables your energy to move fully in the world and makes you feel GOOD!’

    This is exactly what I long for myself (and for everyone else too)

    (((Starla))) maybe one for you too 🙂 I know how scary and lonely it feels when threatened with financial instability. I hope you find something wonderful soon.

  172.  #173Tatia on October 15, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Hi Rori and Sirens:

    I was thinking about this question, and it made me think about using this situation when describing the Row Boat tool.

    I created a cute post and I want to dedicate it to Rori,
    for helping me understand this tool first as a subscriber, and helping me master it as a Coach.

    I LOVE being a coach!

    Love you Rori!



  173.  #174Labbit on October 15, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Mandy — I’ve felt so motivated reading your posts in ways beyond just having intimacy in relationship. I wonder…things seemed to turn around quickly when you were CD’ing. Would it help to try that again? It doesn’t have to be dates with other men. Just putting yourself in places where men are there, where you can talk to them and experience the feelings and rushes they might bring to you. If I were in your shoes I know it would be hard to think about anything except sex. 🙂 Maybe by giving your energy a chance to move towards other men — even in a really general, non-dating kind of way — it may draw J back in closer to you for the intimacy and sex you both want.

    I notice that your posts spend a lot of time trying to put reasons behind everything. This is happening because of x reason, or y thing that happened in the past. I might notice this because I tend to do the same thing. Maybe just forget about all of that? All that really matters is what’s happening right now. Every moment is new. No one should be tied down to their past, including you! You are a wonderful Siren who has learned and grown so much. Give yourself credit where it’s due.

  174.  #175Tatia on October 15, 2014 at 11:54 am

    ** And I love all of the MC’s too!

    Love love love


  175.  #176Indigo on October 15, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    It feels so good getting back in touch with what feels good. I’m on a bit of a trip of that at the moment, and it feels wonderful. Just feeling into what I feel in each moment, not judging it, just living it, asking myself what would feel good and then going deeper into this feeling of pleasure. I find times like this, where I sink incredibly deeply into what feels enjoyable, to the point that I block out everything else, and especially what feels worrying or bad, is incredibly rejuvenating. Hmm… We are experiencing the most gorgeous spring mist and rain here – it is the perfect time for such activities.

  176.  #177Tatia on October 15, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    Indigo # 173

    That sounds fabulous Indigo! I feel invigorated reading your lovely post!

    I also practice focusing on the moment and being aware of the influences I allow myself to be exposed to (see Modern Siren “what are you feeding yourself”). I also am aware of the other influences and I handle them by embracing them!

    I would invite you at these times to embrace the other feelings (i.e., worry & bad feeling stuff) . . . the ones you’re blocking out. Embrace them with power and softness – you’re in charge and it feels beautiful!

    It’s okay for them to be there, they ultimately mean to protect and help you, but you can be safe in your powerful feminine way of enjoying and feeling pleasure, beauty and nature!

    Lovely post Indigo. Thanks for sharing your feeling moment and your poetry. I feel truly moved by it.



  177.  #178Waterfall on October 15, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    I’m looking at pictures of my ex and I feel so jealous. I always felt on the outside of his world. I feel torn up inside just thinking about this. I NEVER felt like he did anything to bring me into his world. I feel so sad… I feel in so much emotional pain… Just crumched up… Crying and I don’t know why… I tried to talk to him, but nothing changed. He said I was wrong… Finding it hard to breathe

  178.  #179Waterfall on October 15, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    The men that I like have NO interest in me, and the men that like me I have NO interest in.. I feel sad and desperate and fretting that I will NEVER meet anyone to love and who loves me. I am fed up of feeling last this. I just want some love.. I’m tired of putting on a smiley face all the time… I feel worn down a d confused…

  179.  #180Emerson on October 15, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    176 waterfall
    I soo hear what you are saying. I am sorry.
    I can so very much relate.

  180.  #181Millie on October 15, 2014 at 10:36 pm

    Waves of feeling lonely, hopeless, and a failure with men is coming over me again. I hate the way it feels when you like hearing from a guy, and he’s consistent, then you don’t hear from him the next day. It could be any reason why, but it feels like “here we go again” to me. It makes me never want to open up to any guy, I want to shut them all out. Too many blows in the face, I just can’t/don’t want to do it anymore. I told this guy I’ve never been married or engaged and he jokingly asked what’s wrong with me…. Something seems to be and I think I really need to stop being hopeful and stop allowing any man in. It’s not good.
    I wish I was like Jennifer Lawrence’s character in Silver Linings playbook, just candid and raw.

  181.  #182Daria on October 16, 2014 at 1:02 am

    Tatia your rowboat pictures made me feelsmily… i felt so drawn into the water rat’s world

  182.  #183Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 2:06 am

    Tatia 🙂

    Thank you for your appreciation, and for your gorgeous suggestion about embracing my worry and bad feelings 🙂 I’m trying this!

  183.  #184Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 2:13 am

    Millie & Waterfall,

    How about holding yourself back a bit… I don’t mean shutting down or shutting other people out… I mean, how about holding everything that is you, all you have to offer, a little closer to your chest?

    If you could perhaps try pacing yourselves so you don’t give people the power to hurt you or reject you with their words… Let them come to you and prove themselves to you and get to know them more slowly. Don’t see any of it as rejection or failure or there being something wrong with you – not every person is a fit, and it is up to you to hold what is in you extremely precious, and to wonder whether this person qualifies to be in *your* life, not the other way round.

  184.  #185IamHis on October 16, 2014 at 3:43 am

    Rori, Toxic Men is the only program of yours I haven’t listened to yet. I’ve dug it up, and it seems like disc 1 is missing! I really want to do this “stranger” exercise. Is there any way I could order a single replacement disc? I have all the others. Thanks!

  185.  #186Sassy on October 16, 2014 at 6:45 am

    Wise words, Indigo

  186.  #187Violette on October 16, 2014 at 6:53 am

    AD sent me two adorable text messages yesterday, as usual. Telling me I’m beautiful and he can’t stop thinking about me and he needs my kisses and can’t wait to see me.

    I didn’t reply. I feel sick to my stomach, like things are moving to fast, like I’ve gotten way ahead of myself with him. I resent the no girlfriend speech now because marriage is on the table and I don’t know if I wan to marry him and it feels like…a pressure to be all in.

    I’ve known him only 2 months. I feel trapped.

    I know this comes mostly out of being triggered, feeling like my boundaries aren’t totally accepted, like I’m being pressured, like this is really about him proving to himself and the world that he did the right thing by leaving his wife 2 years ago.

    And I don’t have to take any responsibility for any of that. I probably could use some more acceptance and compassion for him.

    It really frightened me when he couldn’t get it up. Like now sex is going to be all about him and his problem and why hasn’t he fixed this!!! There are doctors and acupuncturists and sex therapists, why is he putting this on me? He’s nervous because I seem nervous…blah blah blah.

    Another thing, him and the other guy who couldn’t get it up, well they went on and on about how beautiful my body was. Like ad nauseum, like to the point where it was actually annoying. Because no man who was great in bed ever went on and on about me like that. It feels like a bunch of bull, trying to make up for the other thing. Not like a real compliment.

    Oh I feel so annoyed this morning!!!

  187.  #188Femininewoman on October 16, 2014 at 8:56 am

    “what’s wrong with me”

    This is a question I ask myself out loud and unconsciously in my head for years. It was only when I started to do this work that I became conscious of the inner mean girl asking me this question that my mother asked me in myriads of ways over the years. Even now sometimes.

    When I read your comment Millie I heard myself saying “I bet the guy must be just reflecting back what he feels going on below your radar or consciousness”. My response to him was immediately “oh there is nothing wrong with me. As a matter of fact I am picky so things have never more right with me. I am waiting for that special man whose face lights up when he sees. A man who feels like I am the best thing that ever happened to him. I am taking my time because truly, I could be married many times over by now. I just didn’t want to, yet”.

  188.  #189Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Sophie 🙂


  189.  #190Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Violette 184,

    For some reason, and I don’t know why, your post reminded me of when I briefly got involved with a guy about 5 years ago – I was fresh out of a divorce, and he was in the process of divorcing (he actually ended up going back to his wife eventually).

    I have never had a guy come towards me with such force before. He fell so hard, so quickly and so intensely that it was actually quite scary. He told me he loved me after our first date, and 3 dates in he was talking about living together. Not surprisingly I instantly started requesting space, and eventually ended up backing out completely. I had quite a tough time getting him to back off actually – he emailed and phoned obsessively for months afterwards.

    I’m not saying your guy is the same. Clearly he’s not. But it brought up this memory for me.

    What I wanted to say to you is that it’s ok to set your own pace, it’s ok to take time to make your decisions, and it’s ok not to give into any pressure he might be putting on you. You get to choose every step of the way.

  190.  #191Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 9:50 am

    “You get to choose every step of the way.”

    This is a powerful phrase for me at the moment. For me, it reminds me that my journey is about me, and not about a guy. It’s not about “getting” him to do something, or “making” him do something… it’s about what feels good to me. It’s not about trying to obtain a particular outcome – it’s about what feels best and most nourishing for me.

    It also reminds me that I don’t have to explain myself, or feel like I have to justify, or feel guilty, because something which feels better for me is not in line with what a guy or other people might expect. I have permission to be myself as I make my way through this world.

    This is powerful for me, because when someone did or said something which felt off to me, I always used to feel that I either had to suck it up and accept it, or argue and explain with the other person. I realize it doesn’t have to be this way. I can simply opt out for the moment, and go have a bath, or pet my kitty or go to an art gallery or whatever. I get to choose what I allow into my life and my space.

  191.  #192Sophie on October 16, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Does anyone else agree that hormones make leaning back doubly difficult?! ha Arggghhhhh My no contact comfort zone seems to be about 3 days and then anything after that I start to feel twitchy and agitated. Mostly, that’s liveable with and I keep trying to withdraw my energies from the man I may be focusing on…uncomfortable but liveable with. Then add a dose of premenstrual hormones and I am literally torturing myself with reasons why it would be okay for me to lean forward. Arrgghhh. Add to that the fact that where I’m staying is pretty isolating with not too many human contact distractions and I’m practically having to tie my own hands behind my back to stop myself from doing it. I feel restless and a bit anxious and a bit agitated and I know I would feel slightly comforted and appeased if I had some contact from the man whom i am trying not to focus on. I am feeling in need of comforting. I took that on board yesterday evening and tried to settle to ways of comforting myself. I’m back to the same place again today. It is also oxytocin withdrawals I suspect – I feel them really acutely in my body. I feel the desire to be very needy and clingy and leany forwardy –

    Any wonderful ideas/ comments from anyone always appreciated. I think if I managed to sort out the hormone thing a bit that might help – I feel like I have a lot of hormonal imbalance.

    Thank you for the 🙂 Indigo x I’m not sure I ‘did’ anything for a 🙂 so it must just be a ‘being’ 🙂 here’s a being you 🙂 for you xxx

  192.  #193Millie on October 16, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Indigo–I think you make a really good point about not reading things as rejection.

    Femininewoman– I felt like he was saying that because where he is from, people get married early. I’m 28, so my first response was “I’m still young!” I told him I’m someone who is very focused on my goals and career and I’ve gone out on a lot of dates but just haven’t found that right guy yet….

    Nothing is wrong with me I just let my insecurities take over big time!

  193.  #194Dominique on October 16, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Sophie – Some suggestions for hormonal issues –

    If under 40, Evening Primrose Oil in capsule form is amazing.
    If over 40, Black Cohosh in tincture form is wonderful. Other herbs to try are Red clover in tincture or infusion for, (for infusion brewing instructions, ask me), dong quai taken with ginseng.
    For mood balancing, Motherwort is fabulous, very gentle, subtle, yet effective, in tincture form only please.

    Let me know if you have questions or need more help with any of this.


  194.  #195Violette on October 16, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    Thank you Indigo, I appreciate hearing that. I know I get to choose every step of the way, but it feels good to hear someone else say it to me.

    He called today and I felt so warm and affectionate at the sound of his voice.

    I feel a little all over the place. I want to clear my headspace so I can know what I want here.

  195.  #196Sophie on October 16, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Thank you Dominique – yes, this is the next thing I absolutely need to get a handle on. I end up craving (and it is cravings, like for food or drugs) men for comfort because it ‘quick fixes’ (comforts) all the feelings that are haywire in my body. I can see it is a pattern of mine and it isn’t just in my head, its in my body. Okay so Evening Primrose Oil – would I take the Motherwort all the time as in daily? xxx I feel so appreciative of yours (and everyones guidance). It is such a blessing to have access to so much wisdom xxx

  196.  #197Dominique on October 16, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    Sophie – Motherwort is very gentle, one of the few herbs you can take all the time without a break, and you can take it all day long if necessary, around 20 drops in a bit of water.


  197.  #198Mandy on October 16, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Ugh. I just had a hell of a three last days.

    I was going to see J and my mutual friend to give her back something i borrowed, and J was off that day so I told him to come with and we could hang out. We all had so much fun we got some drinks into us, too much for all three, and the night ended up in drama, with all three of us upset, because of so much alcohol involved. Not one of us had been drinking that much before that night.

    She’s a really good friend and I feel horrid and I am still processing these feelings. I HATE it when things have been said I didn’t mean. I hate it when I keep revisiting the things I felt I did wrong and the things I felt they did and said that were wrong.

    I still love him of course, he still loves me, and she is still our great friend, I apologized to both, they apologized to me and the aftermath was handled very well, but of course, me being a bit obsessive about when things go emotionally wrong i keep going back to what happened and I keep feeling those awful feelings.

    Once my therapist told me to just STOP revisiting them. Like to use thought-stopping techniques. I guess I have mostly forgotten how to use them but they could be of huge use right now. I still really feel like crap. I know people make mistakes, and to err is human, but I yelled, I cursed and I said/did many things I didn’t mean.

    I just can’t stop the flux of the thought5s and feelings right now. This is why when people say to me, you’re one of the strongest people i know emotionally I just don’t get it, because I feel SO incredibly sensitive on the inside, it’s like I feel everything – especially painful feelings, of sadness, anger, loss of control, and worry, to the nth degree.

    The thing that sucks but is also a good thing is we always have to keep going, to move on, to decide this won’t kill us, just make us stronger. It sometimes doesn’t seem at all possible for these things to make us stronger because they hurt so much!

    I feel so much hurt. I know that’s not a great choice of a word, because anger and sadness mixed I’ve found can translate into the fact that I feel emotional pain but that isn’t a word my guy would want to hear because it carries blame. Hurt is something someone does to someone else, it’s a verb, so it needs to be used carefully. “I feel awful” sounds about right. I really, really, really feel AWFUL and I wish there was ibuprofen for feelings…

    It’s guilt and hurt. Sadness and anger, and wishing it didn’t happen. My mom likes to say look, no one died, no one is dying, this will not matter in 30 years, and it is SO hard for me to feel that, because it matters right now.

  198.  #199Sophie on October 16, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Thanks Dominique – I’m going to try it 🙂 xxx

  199.  #200Mandy on October 16, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    PS….J went after comforting our friend first because he probably felt it was urgent because he could lose her as a friend real quick quite possibly. Now I feel awful that I’m doing things all wrong because I’m loyal to a fault, it’s like he can’t do any wrong in my eyes, and I need to be more ready to just walk away.

    When I was outside this house bawling, he ran after HER, and I feel awful about it…in fact I wish I could cry right now but I can’t.

    I feel like the most awful excuse for a so-called Siren right now…

    Okay…there they are…there’s the tears…that’s good at least….

    the script is this…”when I feel like my feelings aren’t being put first, it makes me want to run away from you.”

  200.  #201Mandy on October 16, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    Millie –

    Boy do I resonate with what you just wrote…about Jennifer Lawrence in Silver Linings and everything.

    It’s that low…weird place…but it’s that low, weird place where we also find our feelings and be with them…I know it sucks…just trying to remember that the panicky, bad feeling doesn’t last forever…trying to breathe…

    But I so hear you…

  201.  #202Liquid Light on October 16, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    I had my date with Builder the other night. It was pretty flat. He annoyed me because of his niceness and his blandness. He seemed like he was trying to be such a pleaser, smiling and being positive and just being…well totally fake. I felt so annoyed with him. I totally get how men want us to be authentic and that they can’t relate to us and feel safe with us if we aren’t being authentic. The same is true for us, we can’t relate to a man if he is being fake and inauthentic. It was SO BORING! He had absolutely no edge to him, nothing distinctive, nothing compelling and everything he said was a giant cliche!! ARGGGHHH. It was such a weird date! I was the opposite that night, I’ve been really stressed about work and just down about things in general. So I was a stressed out downer wreck that night. The chemistry seemed way off to me so was a bit surprised that he wants to see me again but maybe its because I wasn’t playing along with his nice put on a happy face thing and was just letting it all hang out the good bad and ugly???

  202.  #203Mandy on October 16, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    Liquid Light –

    I know how you feel. I went on a few coffee dates before J, and each time it was a man who just didn’t feel right. It was like I wanted a challenge and they were just too easy and sort of drooling, and sort of submissive, when I wanted a guy to maybe give a bit of resistance, and not be so easy to impress. Like a higher degree of difficulty man, someone who’s been around the block, knows what he wants, and can be cool enough to not gross me out with being too interested too fast.

    Um…I got him..I totally got him..the higher degree of difficulty man…this one’s a doozy, but I love him so much, perhaps maybe because he is a challenge, shows self-respect, and isn’t easy to get into bed, he really feels dinner and a movie and just having a wonderful person to talk to is more intimate for him, when he’s not turned-on, sexually.

    If I may delve a bit here…just write…Maybe this is because he’s got some years behind him, has been around the block, is very attractive, and had girls all the time trying to get him to sleep with them when he just wanted to cuddle – I mean he’s told me countless stories of having a girl over, her expecting sex, not asking for it and waiting for him to make a move, only to end up sleeping next to each other in bed and having nothing happen, then being so mad at him they never spoke to him again…apparently I’m not the first woman to be frustrated about it. Almost makes me wish I was the type to just want to cuddle, but it’s because I know I’m attractive that it frustrates me to not get it for a long time.

    I know a lot of women feel like that a lot, obviously. I’m just not one of them, to me intimacy is best, most passionate, freeing and fulfilling in the bedroom, and I’ve had to look at it differently and definitely get into my femininity, and my point after all these written words, is that *boy* is he TOUGH to out-girl. But when I do it, I feel like I’ve climbed a mountain, and yay me… I have to say I do feel like an amazing woman for being able to handle the challenge.

    There are two sides to that coin. If you don’t feel you want to work that hard to out-girl a guy, you might want one who’s energy IS coming to you like that, who IS nice… Maybe it’s one of those things where you can try to see if you can stay open long enough to find out where the authenticity is? I was just thinking, sometimes the guys we’re not attracted to, who seem too nice, end up being some of the best in relationships, if you can try to give them a chance. Rori is the expert there, I’m just going by her Siren logic…I’ve heard her say it many times, that sometimes on dates when we feel like a guy’s energy is coming to us too fast too easy it’s because of our intimacy issues and being protective of ourselves, etc. I’d be interested to hear what you think since you seem to have lots of good advice yourself as a woman.

    …I feel better, to be here, to try to help others…

  203.  #204Mistea1 on October 16, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    Hello Sirens, I’m new here and hope for a little advice. But first I hope to be of help to you. Hormones can be problematic after 40. Suzanne Somers has some great well researched books. It is a good idea to get some testing done too. The herbs mentioned are good too.
    Next are some of the core issues we all seem to have. I just started to get back into the dating scene after taking a break for 20 years. What a surprise to find out the men I am attracting are much the same as before! Something has not changed. The current man has luckily triggered the issue in me that is the one needing to be worked on. It is a survival issue and it is said to be a very hard one to overcome. Mine is abandonment by parents (father). I am using EFT (Emotional Freedome Technique) to help overcome this. I have used this for the past 10 years and find it very helpful. One would find a practioner useful on these survival issues. I am using the decreasing desire to persue the current man helpful as a gauge that I am making progress here.

    Now the question for someone here. It’s been so long since I have dated I think I have forgotten a lot especially about flirting. It took me three trips out and about before I could bring myself to look and smile at an interesting man. Why, you may ask did i not date for the last 20 years? No one interested me. I was happy to get to my own little apartment where peace and quiet reigned. I did a lot of prayer and meditation. I lived in the desert of the SW, not a lot of people around, hormones imbalanced. Whatever.
    I moved to the NE a little over a year ago, got hormones balanced, better diet, more people around. I started to go to a large church for mental health and community. They are all so kind and friendly it is almost overwhelming and very welcome to me. I really responded to the music here and after a while began to commenting to the person playing very specifically about what I like because I used to be a musician too. Oh dear, he began to respond back and the music was drawing me in more and more. He is a very traditional Eastern European man and I know from intimate personal experience (my exhusband happens to be from the exact same ethnic group, ack!!) that he will try to get me to make the first consession so he can be dominate. I lived as servant in the first marriage and I have no intention of doing that again. I determined that this time the man would initiate and come to me. Thank goodness I found this site. I have learned a lot from reading this. Right now I am leaning back as I have given positive reinforcement. After that at the next service he played such an incredible piece that I saw one of the women actually sway and grab the top of the pew. She said to me ‘Wow that was powerful” and kept on moving. I could not speak for the rest of the day. My mind could not think of anything worth saying. I left right after the service. Finally after a couple of days I felt the music had actually had a calming effect on me and I laughed thinking that he probably had women dropping like flies all over the sanctuary. I have to go to a recital that he is having for someone visiting here from the home country next Sunday. I intend to smile, wave, complement if I need to and stay at least 6 feet away from him because I get to flustered and perspire and say goofy things if I get closer than that. Ack, this is worse than being a teenager. Any reminders and corrections on how I plan to approach this would be gratefully received. So he is not pressuring me but has considerably raised the heat index. I will not cave and ask any favor nor will I offer to ‘help’, I will accept his offerings of music with appreciation, right? I did put a short note in his box about the incredible lusciousness of that piece later in the week. I must admit that seduction by classical music is now at the top of my list as a most unique technique. I once read that when Paginini play his violin women would faint. Now I know what that means!

  204.  #205lovetodance on October 16, 2014 at 8:54 pm

    dear mistea1….
    first welcome to this special island!

    secondly i felt such joy reading what you wrote

    how you have been working deeply within yourself, healing the past….that seems also to show up in the present….isn’t that how it goes!

    always another chance to see what has ensnared us before and how we might do it differently…

    from what you have described you have done such wonderfull siren work…the compliment, the leaning back, the awareness of the dynamic….

    i feel your humor and insight is keen….the paginini reference….reminds of the movie ‘witches of eastwick’ where jack nickolson is the devil and knows how to exactly seduce each of his ‘woman’….

    i know the wisdom of standing 6 feet away ….and the goofiness of feeling like a teenager….sweaty hormones and all….wonderful and terrible…


    i wish i had wisdom to share….all i can say is that from my vantage point you are handling it so well…letting your womanly experience gleaned the hard way…. inform you now…..

    there are also many wonderful rori coaches where you can get a complimentary free short sesssion….you can find them listed at the bottom of the blog page….

    i am sure there are many sirens on this blog who could chime in with something more concrete to say to you…

    want you to know i feel happy you have found your
    way here….

  205.  #206Indigo on October 16, 2014 at 10:29 pm


    I am hoping this is not too triggering to you, and if it is, I apologise. Yet I feel I see some clue in your words:

    “Now I feel awful that I’m doing things all wrong because I’m loyal to a fault, it’s like he can’t do any wrong in my eyes, and I need to be more ready to just walk away.”

    “when I feel like my feelings aren’t being put first, it makes me want to run away from you.”

    I know you love this man with all your heart and don’t want to walk away from him, and believe me I know how that feels – but is it possible that something in your deep inner being would like you to at least entertain that possibility? Not that you need to necessarily do it, but I believe that until we are prepared to walk away from something which doesn’t feel loving to us that we cannot truly respect or honour ourselves.

    I’m sorry if I’ve got this wrong, but this guy strikes me as aloof, and you come across as so warm and passionate. I have to wonder whether this drama incident with the friend after you’d all been drinking was not perhaps some justified anger which had been lying just below the surface?


  206.  #207Sophie on October 17, 2014 at 5:23 am

    ((((mandy))) I don’t know what to say, I just wanted to give you some hugs.

    Thank you Mistea1 – I feel intrigued that you managed to get some balance with your hormones too…I can do this!

    I’m feeling down on myself today. I’m feeling really tearful and I’m so snappy. I haven’t slept well for a few days and now I’m fighting with my mum. Much as I appreciate them, I am finding it increasingly difficult staying with my parents. I feel really sensitive to the things that my mum says – commentary on what I eat and just little nippy remarks. She says they are not and I just hear them as such. It may be true. I feel judged and competed with and niggled at. And then the NV’s go really bad and I start thinking maybe B was right about it all and it is just me who is impossible to live with arrgghhhh then I feel depressed – properly like what is the point in life – don’t panic anyone its just feelings – and then I have streaming tears and i’m sure when I’m over this hormone peak it’ll all feel completely different. My mum apologised. She doesn’t want to be my trigger. She does trigger me. I guess this is what this is, isn’t it? Trigger practice! Major trigger practice. Okay, I did nothing different with my triggers today. I lashed out, then cried. I feel like poor excuse for a Siren (Mandy :)) too. I’m going away tonight so I feel good and looking forward to that. I will try and seek some Motherwort. I lent forward with manfriend today. I may or may not regret it but I don’t care. I will love on myself and my poor messy head anyway. Everything helps me learn a little more about myself I guess.

  207.  #208Mistea1 on October 17, 2014 at 5:37 am

    Sophie, I feel your discomfort! I had good luck with natural progesterone cream. There is a lot of information on the web that you can easily access for your own research. Good luck. Mistea1

  208.  #209lovetodance on October 17, 2014 at 6:29 am

    mistea 1
    wanted you to know i left you a message last nite but its in moderation for some weird reason….anyhow welcome here!

  209.  #210lovetodance on October 17, 2014 at 6:37 am

    sophie 204….

    i know the feeling when one does their darndest to not get triggered and wah la! there is a big one…sorta of like i am not going to have another chocolate chip cookie and before i know it…its in my mouth!

    i know you know this too will pass and the NV ‘s just are doing their thing…i know …throw them the cookie…right!

    so enjoy your time away..time to be just be with yourself… and feel along with the nasties…your beauty and light…which is soooo evidently there….

    ps so glad you had the kind of communication with your mum that she had the ability to apologize….just that you stayed in communication…however difficult it may have been…

  210.  #211lovetodance on October 17, 2014 at 6:38 am

    [[[[[Azure blu]]]]]

    i miss you…hope life is unfolding gently and lovingly in and for you….sending a big hug!….

  211.  #212Femininewoman on October 17, 2014 at 8:01 am

    RE 202 I believe you are so right on here. It is advice I have seen Rori given to another woman. As a matter of fact there is even an article where she advices when the sex is gone be done with him.

    200 just reminded me of the things that some coaches say about pickup artists and bad boy types. Women flock to them like moth to a flame because of that edge. The aloof kockiness that some exude. It is like a challenge to us to bring that kind to his knees so we can prove our prowess to him and ourselves.

  212.  #213Mandy on October 17, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Thank you Sophie…

    Indigo –

    You are SO right on the money – it’s not triggering me badly at all because it’s been on my mind in the past 48 hours, big-time. I feel scared to admit that, but there it is…yes, I’m at least rolling it around in my mind, if not planning on it. I hope that…sounds…healthy…What if I did put him in the friend zone, what would happen? What would happen if I told him I deserve to be happy, not feel ugly and neglected all the time? What if I told him he was withholding the basics of a relationship from me, that it isn’t good for me, and although I love him with all my heart, and that he is a good man, I have to break it off and entertain being friends? I’m entertaining the thought, believe me, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t. It’s just, I just got the guts to admit it, right now…in the past few days. I have been entertaining that idea for a long time…when I feel there’s just no light at the end of the tunnel I just want to switch paths, because of staying in a situation which is making me miserable and only gets relieved when *he* decides it is okay for him to do so? It was a lot of anger coming out, from our friend, too, that night. She said to him, if (insert some line here about if he doesn’t do or feel something), “then you don’t deserve her (me).”

    For an example of what’s happened last night, he wanted to watch Californication, a show with gratuitous sex in it, and I watched two episodes and I was so triggered with anger about watching these characters be naked and having sex and I realized I can’t watch something like that and not get triggered with some very serious anger, unless I have no worry in my mind I won’t be getting some myself sometime soon…especially because I am a very attractive person, and I know it.

    That’s what has got me SO worried, anxious, etc. Is that I have basically right and reason to leave over this, and I’ve never left anyone ever before in my whole life. Especially not him, he’s the best man I’ve ever had…believe me when I say this, my mother has even said it. He doesn’t yell, he doesn’t tell me to stop touching him, he doesn’t micro-manage or tell me I need to do more cleaning, he is not abusive, he is very receptive to when we are sitting together and talking, and he is very sweet to me, and I can feel his energy still coming towards me even if we aren’t touching – he thinks I’ll be doing something super-cute and will just be like aww, and come hug me, and give me lots of snuggles at night – he loves that…just snuggling so close we get sweaty, lol. He does ask how I’m doing, he notices and asks if I’m okay when something’s going on with me. Our embraces when he comes home from work are *so* passionate and long, we stand there for a few minutes just holding each other and rubbing each other’s backs and giving each other nice long kisses. Perhaps if he wasn’t so tired that might be a turn-on for him, it would be for me, for sure, if I were him and if I had the energy. When he does come around sexually…it’s either because I’ve shown vulnerability or because he feels like he needs to chase after me, and it could just be that I’m just not allowing for enough space for him to chase me, because I am someone who is very masculine energy and putting myself out there all the time, being a sensitive-extrovert. I just do it again and again even if it hurts, and it’s kinda crazy. So I hope that gives an idea of his warmth…it is there, I do feel it, and he is in there, I know it…his libido is still there, it just tends to be thwarted physiologically – he snores at night and so does his dad, his dad does so much he has to wear a mask at night to help him breathe, and is also open about having to take viagra, so I’m not so sure these aren’t issues for him and also related issues. So I’m not sure it’s his fault for all this, me feeling angry and everything. Maybe I have to remember that he is human and let the anger subside.

    I also see this as always being an issue, that he will perhaps always not be as into sex as I am. I realized I am always going to be more passionate than he is, as I am more passionate than really anyone I know, yesterday and that’s why I am writing so much to you about your suggestion, because you made the suggestion right after I got that impression. But it’s all in the bedroom, I don’t mind if it’s when we are just hanging out. Yes I would like him to sit with me sometimes but it’s not killing me inside if he just wants to sit in his chair, that’s not something that is a problem for me, luckily. He can be quite aloof outside the bedroom and it doesn’t bother me for the most part, it’s the bedroom problem that kills me inside. The thing is – I can hold a huge amount of space, for a very long time, two weeks even – if I get sex it will have me feeling wonderful for two whole weeks! But after that if it goes any longer, I end up feeling absolutely starved of attention, affection and love, angry and sad to the point I almost can’t take it. That should give an idea of how much space I can hold and yet how much space he will take, sexually. I often feel like I let him get away with so much that it’s ridiculous. Also, it’s confusing because Rori said to me specifically that he IS a GOOD man. I simply haven’t had that before, and it’s tough for me to give up because he is so sweet and caring and good and gentle. I love it. I wouldn’t want to pick anyone else, because his personality suits mine so well. I just love who he is and what we have. if I could just figure out a way to negotiate this, and make a solution…I feel like I haven’t had enough guts to say lots of things to him too, and I’d like to try that before leaving. I am so hell-bent on making things work and never giving up I may never have the gall to do that. I’d have to be fed up to the top and I don’t quite feel fed up yet.

    Or what if I just said “Look, either sex once at least every two weeks or this won’t work.” Would that be too ballsy? Is that an ultimatum?

    I have people I could see right away after, if I did put him in the friend zone, in fact I have one pretty darn attractive friend who’s been barking up my tree for awhile now. Not only that but I get people telling me all the time how much they like me in *that* way, men and women, so it wouldn’t be a problem to circular date at all. And when I say Circular Date, I mean the full gamut, everything, and seriously not tying myself down to anyone until someone makes me an offer I can’t refuse.

    One thing’s for sure, I need to see my therapist.
    One would say don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, which I have, and I’ve stood my ground on that, hardcore, but I just see this either never changing or I just haven’t gotten serious enough about pulling out some HUGE guns here, we haven’t been to counseling yet, and that was my last ditch effort.

    Do you think I could try the last-ditch effort, and then if that doesn’t work, just put him in the friend zone? I thought after he started working again and gave up most of the drinks he had at night he’d be okay. He recently told me he’s very tired when he comes home from work so he doesn’t feel like getting frisky. He’s a morning guy when it comes to that, also he has bad allergies and sleep deprivation problems and I see that as not being his fault, at all.

    But…Indigo..you touched on something very crucial here…just the aloofness. It’s like, my dad and mom have that dynamic, but it works because she’s the one who’s reserved and he’s the passionate one…I believe since she’s in the female role there and he’s in the male role, it probably works. I mean don’t get me wrong, he always jokes about how she’s “cold as ice”. I think it actually frustrates him a lot, but they are together for life, married for 35 years, never separating, committed for life.
    When it’s me being the passionate one and him being the aloof one, and we’re not married, it’s like, how the hell do I out-girl him, and how the hell do I get my needs met??? I mean I’m just freaking stumped all the time, and I have to lean back…way way way back and I have to force myself to do it and it isn’t easy.

    Also, I thought to myself, one of the coaches told me it actually might work for me to initiate intimacy, I never have because it’s not the Siren way, and I just held to that, for so long. Is it worth a try?

    One thing I did feel the other night was that I *just* didn’t want him to leave or hate me, I just wanted to hold him. That was the biggest feeling I had that night. Just like…I just want to hold him and be held by him and us love each other and be okay. Actually that is still what I want and I am getting it.

    The biggest kicker is that I have all these thoughts and feelings and I am absolutely terrified to tell him any of it. he asked what I was thinking last night, and I wish I could’ve said I can’t watch this show if I’m not getting sex, but I said, the show triggered some angry feelings for me.

    Okay. I’ll let that be on here for awhile and see what kind of responses I can get – I hope everyone else chimes in because I want as much perspective as possible.

  213.  #214Violette on October 17, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    Mandy I don’t know what you should do, I wish I had wise advice! But I hear you. You are not alone. And I respect that you want to be kind and compassionate in your relationship as well as honor your needs. Wouldn’t it be nice if it was just simple, if we met a great guy and all the basics were covered, like those great guys my friends seem to meet and marry and they’re so happy.

    But it’s good. This is exactly the experience you’re supposed to be having right now, and you’ll understand why later. I for one feel lucky to hear all the details, thank you for sharing them here. They are helping me on my journey too.

    Maybe…don’t rush anything…take time to write about it, to meditate on it.

    And don’t be too afraid of hurting him. That’s one that can trip me up, feeling like I can’t take care of myself because it will hurt a man. He’ll be ok. Heck, he doesn’t seem too worried about hurting you right now.

    I don’t see any harm in letting him know exactly how you’re feeling, that you’re ready to walk if something doesn’t change, that you need to know that he is interested in finding a solution with you. Maybe communication will resolve the situation in its own way.

    Take good care of yourself for sure. Eat well, plan activities that nourish you.

    It is clear that you have lots of strength and wisdom and will find the answer. And good for you for not bending yourself to make him comfortable.

  214.  #215Labbit on October 17, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Mandy, my feeling is that if you take care of yourself the best way you know how he will automatically be motivated to take the best care of you he can.

    You are on the path there. It only feels scary because you’re used to putting yourself last is my guess…?

  215.  #216Mandy on October 17, 2014 at 3:04 pm

    Violette and Labbit, Thank you so much for your input. What I gather from your comments is that I am not taking care of myself well enough, or not putting myself first, and that I need to step it up, not be so timid and submissive and afraid of hurting him or rather more specifically scaring him away. He is just not the type to scare someone away, so he wouldn’t have any worry about scaring me away, because he just wouldn’t do it. I am feeling a lot of fear, is what it equates to, I am living in a lot of fear. So you’ll like what I have to say next…

    So weird, within the past three hours, I learned one friend of mine who barking up my tree isn’t coming to my state anymore like he thought, and I learned another old friend of mine is barking up my tree…seriously barking…

    So I decided maybe it might take my mind off things to at least set up a coffee date and catch up with him. Done and done.

    Yes, I do feel a little better, ladies, I have to admit it. Even though now I feel scared for a new reason, because a guy *IS* pursuing me, and it’s not so much J, as it is…I’ll call him…CollegeCD…

    So at least that is something new to take my mind off things. It’s is nice to be told you’re attractive, and he did. We are going to hang out and have coffee next Friday.

    So, about nourishing…just need to find my earbuds that go too my little iPod shuffler…and get some energy in me, get to the store, get some groceries and come back and run for a little while to some music, and I’m sure I’ll be feeling good after that, I always do.

    And, I do hope that what I write here does help others, I know I have a special gift of being incredibly open and sharing. Never had a problem with that…talking makes me feel better a lot of the time. I just need an ear a lot, usually I can talk my way out of feeling so horrible I can’t stand it, which has been a lot the past few days.

    Maybe if I had the relationship to prove it I would become a coach. I don’t though. That’s not one of the things I feel bad about, it just is what it is, right now.

  216.  #217Indigo on October 17, 2014 at 3:22 pm


    I’m very glad what I said wasn’t too triggering for you.

    I see you put a lot in your post about what Rori, other coaches, and your therapist say about him… getting their perspective is great and all very well… but remember, they don’t know him. They don’t have to be in a relationship with him. YOU do. You’re a very perceptive woman and have some powerful insights of your own… not about him, about YOU.

    I have no doubt that this man loves you in his own way, and is gentle and sweet and all the things you say he is. You talk about things not being his fault… of course it’s not his fault he has these issues. But this isn’t about fault. Fault and blame are really irrelevant here. Just forget for the moment here about him being such a great guy and all these things which are not his fault which you feel you have to compensate for.

    I am concerned for YOU. And I feel like you should be too. My suggestion about walking away was not about punishing him, or giving up… it’s just that sometimes you have to because a situation feels bad. Because you put yourself first and love yourself and realize you can’t do this any more. It’s not even about the other person.

    I absolutely would start speaking up. About the TV show – I would probably simply and gently speak my truth, and then leave the room. I would start speaking up about a lot of things – not in a “hurt” way, but just in a speaking-my-truth way. Ultimatums are not a great thing for a relationship.

    I know what you mean about giving lots of space, I really do – but it all depends on how you feel while you’re doing it. All of this depends on how YOU feel. That is what is important here. And having some kind of personal power in the relationship is key to how you feel. That is what walking away is about for me – it’s not about the other person. It’s about loving you.

    Mandy, I’ll be honest – if it were me, I would not friend-zone this guy, I’d start withdrawing from him. I would take myself right out of this situation, out of living with him. But I’m not you.

    I hope you find your answers. xxx

  217.  #218Mandy on October 18, 2014 at 5:18 am

    Withdrawing from him…how would I feel about that…
    I would feel like I was throwing the baby out with the bathwater at this moment…I am deciding I’m not going to do that right away, as I believe I still have options here, but that is something to meditate on for awhile.

    He totally opened up to me tonight, and shared with me more information about his issues with sex, one being tired a lot, two, possibly a testosterone thing which was his own idea, and also that this isn’t the first time he’s had this problem, he has lost two of his relationships he had before ours, because of him not giving them enough sex, and so they couldn’t take it, and eventually bailed on him, one just breaking up with him, the other cheating on him and then ending the relationship with him, both of which devastated him. He told me I am much stronger than they were, because I’ve stuck around for a long time dealing with this, and continue to, just wanting to work it out so we can live our lives together to the fullest.
    He also said he has a thing where he can be sexually triggered by the thought of having sex with a stranger, more than he can be aroused by his girlfriend, because the girlfriend becomes too familiar to him over time, especially if living with him (which I am) for him to be interested sexually. He’s willing to try not one or two things, but multiple things, to fix this situation for us. That does make me feel better. Hearing what he has to say, hearing him open up to me, hearing him talk about what he is thinking right now, and letting me get a word or two in, really makes me feel good right now…also hearing him say I am pretty and my hair is pretty…

    Earlier he even said he felt like a bad boyfriend, because during my talking about something,
    he nodded off for a sec, lol…I forgave him instantly, and told him he wasn’t a bad boyfriend 🙂 But I felt cared for, and that he was thinking of me and worrying if he did something wrong with me, which is really sweet to me! That is awesome. He really does love me and wants to try to work this out. He usually says, it’ll happen again, or that we might be able to stay open about this and just keep asking if he may be okay with it every one in awhile, or something like it, like holing each other in the shower or disrobed and in bed, would be suitable. Also, first through third base is also welcome too, without the home run, if he doesn’t want to have sex but just might want to have some other fun at the moment.

    So I’d like to still meditate on this, blog about it here, realize new things, get more info about how I feel from myself and see how things go. It’s still also possible I can lean way way back, not be there all the time for him, let him fit into my schedule, invite friends to hang out and be busy, work out, and let myself become a bit less familiar to him so that he can feel I am not always going to be at his beck and call, and can perhaps spark his interest with that too.

  218.  #219Mandy on October 18, 2014 at 5:42 am

    PS – Sorry, in my previous post, I meant to say HOLDING each other in the shower or bed would be suitable enough for me sometimes, in the intimacy department…

  219.  #220Indigo on October 18, 2014 at 5:45 am


    It seems as if you still want to work this through – within yourself, and within your relationship, which means that your journey with this isn’t done yet.

    I am a big believer in letting things play out and coming to your own answers when the time is right.


  220.  #221Indigo on October 18, 2014 at 5:53 am

    I wrote my previous posts to you, Mandy, because there are some issues with D that I don’t feel happy about, and taking a big step back to evaluate, and to honour myself more, has made me feel more grounded, clearer, and more powerful (in a good, feminine way).

    For me, entertaining the thought of walking away soothes my anxiety, and it also reminds me not to get too caught up in his “stuff”. It reminds me that he is not ready for the relationship I want, and that I have no control over that, and that is his stuff to sort out, not mine, and that I always have the option to walk away. When I imagine walking away, even temporarily, in my mind, it helps me feel less invested, less worried. And that is a good thing.

    It is something I have experimented with quite a bit recently, and it does feel better. It feels like respecting and honouring myself, going to go and take care of myself and gather my thoughts.

    When a situation feels bad, I realize that I don’t have to stay in it, and that feels good.

  221.  #222Femininewoman on October 18, 2014 at 9:35 am

    All very good points Indigo. The one filter I have with a lot of this is that I have a girlfriend in my life who when face with challenges that she doesn’t like tend to ask herself and me “what?? do I look like a glutton for punishment?”. This tough questions tends to help me move forward faster than I would normally choose to.

  222.  #223Indigo on October 18, 2014 at 9:40 am


    I like that. Personally I don’t see any reason to stick around in situations that feel bad or punishing. It doesn’t necessarily mean you abandon the person or the relationship, but there is nothing wrong with making a better choice for yourself in the moment.

  223.  #224Violette on October 18, 2014 at 10:33 am

    I spoke to a girlfriend who is really wise and gave me some very helpful perspective on my feelings with AD. I don’t know how she does it she really helps me when I talk to her! She heard me say some things I really like, then she heard me get more and more into the things I don’t like,and she encouraged me to write out what I do and don’t like and weigh them and see which is greater. She says she is less interested in something perfect for her own relationship, and that there are things she doesn’t like in it, especially when she’s triggered, but that when she remembers the things she likes they do outweigh them.

    Last night I felt so annoyed with him…all the things I can’t stand about this, all the feelings of, why can’t he be someone else?

    But this morning I feel so happy because I’ve found the time to do my two lists, to look at the bad, and realize that for today none of it is that big of a deal to me. And that I really really like the good list. It makes me excited.

    AD is romantic, he’s loyal, he’s AVAILABLE, he tells me I look beautiful right away when he sees me, he’s fun, always up for trying new things and doing things and taking me where I want to go, he has plenty of money and is generous and enjoys spending it on me, he’s got nice legs, nice eyes, nice teeth. He’s tall. I enjoy the way he kisses me and touches me, and there is a nice physical chemistry. He’s chivalrous, opens my door, sets up dates in advance, puts on my coat, still picks me up for our dates, carries my bag, brings me flowers and amazing chocolates and presents.

    With all the things I don’t like, mainly because they are so triggering, and if I take a little time I can love those triggers and see more clearly, the things I do like are very enjoyable.

    It feels good to be in a relationship. It’s been so long, and I feel for the first time in so long that I’m supported, cared for, not alone. It’s really lovely.

    For now I’d like to focus on that. Why not? I can leave him any time I want. For today I’d prefer to enjoy the good.

  224.  #225Dominique on October 18, 2014 at 11:31 am

    Violette – 220 – Triggers can also be wonderful opportunities for healing.


  225.  #226Violette on October 18, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Thank you Dominique. This feels true to me for today. I feel curious to see how it will feel to be around him tonight after this new perspective for me.

  226.  #227Starla on October 18, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    I hit a wall this weekend… I have been so busy, I just couldn’t “do” anything more today. this is fine; I’m off work, but I do feel sorta guilty and useless for it. Oh well. Love to me.

  227.  #228prplpsn28 on October 18, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    This just s*cks. It just does. So tired of feeling this way.

  228.  #229Mandy on October 18, 2014 at 8:26 pm

    So I found out last night, even though J beautifully opened up to me like never before, I found out he wants to have two girlfriends, me and our friend, and he thought I did too but I don’t, and I’m realy, really feeling distressed over it.

    Also I found out that before he even bothers to show me the people he’s talking to on fetlife, I got a letter on this social site he’s looking on from a boyfriend of a woman he’d chatted up, and he let me know J was flirting with his woman even though they are polyamorous, telling her she has a nice butt and calling her beautiful and gorgeous, and telling her he really wants to talk to her a lot and that she intrigues him…I can’t handle all that. I feel cheated on when he flirts with others behind my back without my consent. ESPECIALLY when my sexual needs aren’t being met. I feel like he’s putting their feelings before mine…again. This has been going on for two to three weeks that he’s been flirting with these people and not bothering to show me their pictures or to see if I like them before he starts flirting.

    Sometimes I feel like he can be the biggest moron when handling this shit…

    What do I do with that now…it’s been issue after damn issue this week…they just keep coming…

  229.  #230Mandy on October 18, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    PS – Dominique – I can’t really allow myself to believe he’s doing the threesome thing for me now. I think he is doing it largely for himself.

  230.  #231Starla on October 18, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    Woah Mandy, that sounds really distressing. ((((((((((((Mandy)))))))))))

    also (((((((((((((((prplpsn)))))))))))))))

  231.  #232Rori Raye on October 18, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Rachel – what you’re experiencing is a classic demonstration of deep lack of self-esteem – yours, and a desire to hurt yourself as much as possible. I know that sounds harsh – and there is no other explanation for why you remain in a live-in situation with this man. It is pain city.

    Advice would be this from me or any coach I know: GET OUT OF THERE!!!!! You are practically being used as a dishrag. A shoulder to cry on, a warm body to cuddle. I’m being as dramatic as I can to paint this picture in a way you’ll notice.

    Nowhere do you say how your dating and romantic life is going with other men. Convince me you’re not deeply, on purpose causing yourself all this pain by telling me what great fun you’re having with other men.

    Please, please take advantage of my free Coach Trainees…https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/free-coaching-with-my-new-rori-raye-coach-trainees/ – they will all help you…and perhaps you’ll quickly find one you can afford who will get you out of this mess and help you create something wonderful for yourself.

    If this man is meant to be with you – YOU’D HAVE SEEN IT BY NOW!!!!! You have NO chance of seeing this happen as long as you live with him as a “friend.” Love, Rori

  232.  #233Indigo on October 18, 2014 at 11:50 pm


    As long as you are tolerating this situation, there is literally no chance that you and this man will ever be together. He has things all the way he thinks he wants them, so why would he ever change? And you are just enduring more pain and confusion.

    Agree with Rori 100%. Move out and start dating other men


  233.  #234Indigo on October 18, 2014 at 11:52 pm


    OMG. My jaw nearly hit the floor when I read your latest post. Are you polyamorous?

    Because if not, I don’t know how you could bear this situation. I know what I would do.

    Sending love

  234.  #235Femininewoman on October 19, 2014 at 2:41 am

    Rachel, he doesn’t sound like a friend to me. First order of business if I were in your situation would be to look for another place to live. You are putting your health at risk mixing sex and alcohol and it doesn’t suggest responsible behavior.

  235.  #236Femininewoman on October 19, 2014 at 2:46 am

    Mandy looking at his actions in your earlier post about how he ran to comfort your friend while ignoring your feelings suggest to me that his words doesn’t match his actions. He doesn’t want to have sex with you but his fantasizing about sex with her? Seems to me that she is what he wants right now. I am now wondering if you have been lying to yourself about him and he is just helping you right along to do just that?

  236.  #237Tatia on October 19, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Daria #182
    Thank you! I smile everytime I look at that post. The rowboat is one of my favorites!

  237.  #238Dominique on October 19, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Mandy – I’m so sorry. If you want to talk, I’m around.


  238.  #239Sophie on October 19, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Mistea 1 and lovetodance – thank you for your comments to me I did read them and they felt like soothing balm but I was away and on my phone and it isn’t sophisticated enough to use to post! Lovetodance – isn’t it just like that cookie – grr it feels so much more powerful than me sometimes and very frustrating

    Needless to say, now I’m the other side of the hormones and I actually had a night of deep sleep I feel quite normal and quite stable and quite strong all over again

    I had no response to my leaning forward which I feel amused about more than anything else. It gave me a lot of information about myself that I feel keen to work with…and a lot of practice for feeling through my feelings and re-orientating myself. I was not surprised at all. I was wanting someone to meet a need and this is not someone who has ever demonstrated that he is willing or able to do that.I am forgiving myself for it.

    Indigo I felt really supported by your post to Mandy about feeling empowered by recognising that staying in a situation or an energy place or moving away from it, is always a choice. I felt an attraction to that concept and felt empowered by it. Indigo’s post along with your’s, FW, about punishment, also helped me to look at whether I move (and hence CHOOSE) to move towards situations sometimes that feel painful or unsettling or unfulfilling and how I DO have the power to CHOOSE to move away from those situations. That felt calming.

    I feel studious right now.

    Mandy I feel for you as you move through your journey. I feel glad that you have this space to share and the support to help you work through your feelings.

    (((Azure Blu))) I miss you too – I hope all is well in your world

    (((purple))) the hard feeling days suck, I know

  239.  #240Sophie on October 19, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Tatia – I really enjoyed your post too – it felt captivating to see all the images and they really helped to evoke the feeling places of the rowboat tool – thank you xx

  240.  #241prplpsn28 on October 19, 2014 at 10:30 am

    So…H texted me late last night to wish me a happy sweetest day. And texted me again this morning. What?! Idk

  241.  #242Azure Blu on October 19, 2014 at 11:43 am

    lovetodance and Sophie,
    Just what I needed right now… to hear you sweet Sirens asking about me… thank you sooo much for Siren LOVE!!! :->

    I have been following the blog… and sending love and understanding as you all grow and flurish using the Rori Toools.

    But I’ve been SOOO emotionally overwhelmed by work AND this whole Spirit disappointment… trying to find out MORE about me, my Triggers, what I am doing to push guys away…
    Working with RR coach Natalina has been VERY helpful…

    I’ve been VERY busy getting out my new quarterly magazine about the horse industry… I’m excited about how well it’s going… and how excited everyone is to advertise and have articles in the next issue!!! This is much needed income on a regular basis!!

    Lots of changes Swirllling around inside ME…
    Leaning back from a girl friend… understanding her energy and unavailability – she can’t seem to responds to my text or phone call when she’s with her man – but I am Always available for her… I surely need to take good care of ME, with her, in a loving soft on the outside, way…

    Spirit has pulled way back… after 2 weeks of no contact and ME contacting him…
    He asked me out on a date on friday to explain how he is feeling.

    That night before my date with Spirit (my full plate), I played pool with my son (we had a great time) I went to a gallery opening and ran into my prof from college!!! She is 94, and she had a painting in the show. I sat and talked to her and we are going to be emailing now!!!

    Then I met Spirit for dinner at 7:30pm –
    I shared with him that I too needed time and space because I was feeling overwhelmed with the emotional intimacy I was feeling.
    He shared that he was feeling overwhelmed with work – changing jobs after 11 years – Still dealing with his daughter’s struggles…
    He said there are women he finds sexually attracted to… and women he enjoys as friends but that he has found both in me…. That felt soo nice to hear…

    I said I like how he has been leading our relationship… He was surprised hearing it put that way…

    He said he was confused… one minute I seemed to want to go slow… and the next minute I want to go fast… (I should have asked what he meant)

    I did ask him if sex without marriage was a sin in his religion and he said – it should have been clear by now that he doesn’t go by all his churches dogma.. but that it is an important topic of conversation…
    My thoughts are, it seems to be a BIG confusion to HIM!!! ;-))

    We agreed we don’t want to date others… that we’d let each other know if this changed…
    We kissed, hugged and more… I was just leaning back and he did NOT ask to spend the night… his daughter is out of town… (3 months dating and he has NOT asked me to his apt.)
    he sent me a really sweet text… I called him on the phone and shared how romantic and fun the evening was for me also…
    we talked a little more…
    and I didn’t hear from him for Sweetest day

    MY feelings are I need comforting… like Sophie mentioned… I feel sooooo needy and triggered and anxious and upset!!! I wanted to have breakfast with a wonderful man- wish it was Spirit – want to go for a drive with Mr. Right and look at the beautiful fall leaves…
    Just tired of sleeping alone!!! Evan Katz and my son say – relax and give it time!!!
    My thoughts are – I dont’ like being ignored on Sweetest day… he didn’t do anything for my birthday either… not a bar of chocolate – nothing…
    and he even asked… what did I want… I said “I love Flowers”

    This is alllllll feeling VERY confusing and uncomfortable and HEARTBREAKING…
    Am I feeling embarrased cause I thought he did want sex but forgot to tell me he doesn’t want sex before marriage?

    I’m thinking this might be my feeling message to Spirit
    “In our last conversation you mentioned your job and Sarah. i admire your dedication to your economic stability. and of course your daughters welfare comes first! Your the only man I want
    and because I don’t want to add anymore pressure on you
    I’m thinking it would feel better for me
    if we go back to dating others like we were a month ago…”
    I feel sooo icky and yucky and triggered and DISAPPOINTED!!!

  242.  #243lovetodance on October 19, 2014 at 11:43 am

    mistea 1

    again i want you to know i responded to your wonderful post a few days….
    if i don’t say so myself i really liked my response and sorry that for some odd reason it went to moderation and i haven’t seen it since…

    again feeling like giving you a Big welcome to this blog…and please keep us informed along your journey!

  243.  #244lovetodance on October 19, 2014 at 11:47 am

    Rori and other coaches….

    do you know what happens to a comment sent to moderation and is it lost forever in moderation cyberspace?

    i sent a response to someone which felt innocent and non provocative in any sense to me…
    the only thing i mentioned that maybe the computer censor questioned was a scene from witches of eastwick where jack nicholson plays the devil and seduces the women of his choice….does the word ‘devil’ trigger something with this robotic censor?

    any input would be helpful here….thank you….

  244.  #245lovetodance on October 19, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    dear azure blu…

    thank you so much for posting!…..for giving such a full account of how you are, how you’ve been….what is happening

    i feel such richness in your life and being and so happy for you with what you have going….your creativity, your work, your relationships [yes even the one with spirit], your growth….

    I feel you are learning so much and allowing yourself to feel so much…..your true womanly sirenness shining thro….which includes the heartbreaking moments to…

    i feel you are just honing, and refining and polishing YOUR spirit….your internal knowing and strength and ability to love! to such a fabulous degree…

    i am sorry for the pain…but yet i feel there is a clarity in you seeing the questions and the confusions and not reacting in a way that hurts you more….

    this takes true stamina and resilence…which i feel in what you write….i feel your internal resources…your ability to connect with the ones you love in your life…

    something that jumped out at me from what you wrote….always being available for your friend and wanting that back in return…wondering if always being available to her feels good to you….? and then feeling hurt when she puts you second…just a question that i have had before in my own life….of course i do what i would want someone to do in return but have learned so many times over and over….they are not me…

    happy fall beautiful azure …may you enjoy the gorgeousness of the leaves! and the colors of you!

  245.  #246Azure Blu on October 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    Huggss!! thank you for your warm, tender response…

    about my gf… Yes, I am thinking that I am going to lean back… It wasn’t fair to ME or HER to be always available… I am noticing that my married friends are not really available to me… so I will try and keep that in mind and maybe seek out some more single friends…
    I do have one single friend who has been making more of an effort to spend time with me… she had moved and had been spending more time with friends in her new town… So I will respond more timely to her now…
    Always remembering that friendship (just like relationships) has an ebb and flow…
    and that I need to continue to give LOVE and ATTENTION to ME!!! so that I FILL MYSELF up.

  246.  #247Lucy on October 19, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Lucy here.

    I took some time off because I felt that even with all the wonderful tools in Rori’s classes, I still felt that women were getting “blamed” if the men backed off, or did the things that most men do, even good ones.

    What’s going on with you and Spirit is a prime example. Men do get bored earlier, that’s just who they are.

    But your connection sounds strong, and I feel that you will be able to reconnect.

    I had to smile about Spirit and his religion. Many of the “religious” men I’ve met still manage to have sex, even if they feel guilty about it. This includes the most holy priests who will preach against premarital sex, yet are off having sex on vacation or in bathhouses.

    So I take with a grain of salt what men say about sex. What they do is often different than what they say!

    Men produce 300 million sperm a day. Frankly, I’m surprised they’re not more sex-oriented than they are!

    Having said this, I think Spirit sounds good, and I wouldn’t worry too much.

    I lied about my age on ok cupid and received 175 visitors and 40 messages. Guess there’s a reason why mom and grandma never told men their real age!


  247.  #248Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 2:20 pm


    I’m glad you felt supported by my post about walking away and found it helpful. I also feel an attraction to this concept, and have found it powerful.


  248.  #249Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    (((Azure Blu)))

    I can understand why things feel bad with Spirit, it would to me too.

    Personally, if it were me, considering it hasn’t been very long with Spirit, I think he’s already showing signs of not being able to keep up the required effort – his reasons don’t matter so much, but I would keep Circular Dating – going on actual dates or dating the world.


  249.  #250Labbit on October 19, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Azure Blu,

    It sounds like you are doing GREAT. I am very excited for you that Spirit came out of his cave, asked you out and opened up to you. Can you see how wonderful all of that is!? It’s easy to put myself in your shoes and understand how you want more…how you want things to move forward…things are moving forward, maybe just a little slower than you’d like. 🙂

    I cannot speak for Spirit so take this with many grains of salt…my feeling is he meant he thinks you move fast in terms of emotional investment and slower in terms of physical investment. And isn’t that how it is for so many of us? This is a time where you need to pour all the confidence you can into yourself.

    I don’t think it’s accurate at all when you say you push men away, at least in the context of Spirit. I know that there’s a gap between where you see the relationship now and where you think you want it to be…all I see is positive movement forward!

  250.  #251Labbit on October 19, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    What a weird and wonderful week it’s been. I am still feeling so inspired by Andrea’s comments on the last post, about just doing me and letting men come and go…not investing in anyone except myself, and if men want to see me they have to come into my world and find me.

    TenderCD and I have had a few more discussions…bordering on arguments about me CDing. There were two nights this week when he wanted to see me, one night where I had a work conflict and the other where KeyCD had already asked me on a date. Tender and I made plans for another night, and he said he felt pressured to move faster than he was comfortable with because I am ‘seeing all these other guys.’ When he said that I wanted to collapse, and give in, and tell him, OK I’ll only see you, but after a minute or two to think I realized that wouldn’t serve either of us. So instead I just shared that it wasn’t about dating a lot of men for me, it was about finding the one man for me, and that I didn’t want him to feel pressured and then I shared what a commitment would like for me, and that if he wasn’t ready for that it was fine by me for now and that I couldn’t commit without those things. The effort of saying all that left me falling into the couch and sort of breathless. I told Tender that I felt breathless! He comforted me romantically which felt so deliciously good. He still seemed annoyed…but he hasn’t backed off either, so I think it’s more that he doesn’t like not having his way. Which I TOTALLY relate to. 🙂

    Meanwhile, KeyCD is pursuing me hard right now and that feels great! He loves to cook (so do I) so he suggested hosting a dinner party for a mix of his friends and mine at his place. He has a super nice kitchen and some tools that I don’t have. We settled on a total of 10 people for dinner and the party will be next weekend. He cooks much fancier items than I tend to but I do desserts better so we’re planning a fun menu together. Everything is so easy and flowy with him…he knows I am CD’ing and doesn’t seem to care…for we haven’t been dating long at all though, not even a month so I’m more in wait-and-see mode with him.

    I finally get what Rori is talking about when she says love can feel like pain if you don’t love yourself. At one point KeyCD was getting very mushy with me, super lovey-dovey. It SHOULD have felt great…but instead I found myself feeling angry. I don’t know why. I wanted to cry and run away. I don’t know why. All I know is that I felt myself close down and it was really strange. He must have felt it too because he just stopped talking suddenly and pulled back physically and we had an awkward silence. I couldn’t share what I was feeling because it didn’t make sense to me…luckily we recovered quickly. This is something I need to explore more deeply. Why did I feel angry when he was expressing love to me?!?

  251.  #252Sophie on October 19, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    ((((azure Blu))) I understand all those feelings too – I’m sure I would feel like that too and I wish for you so much better feeling feelings – you deserve all those things you desire for you. I have to say what Indigo says resonates with me – he seems to be be showing signs that he may not be able to put the effort in that you desire and you deserve.

    I wonder when it is the right, right man for us, is it so tricky in the beginning? I was reading Roris ebook again the other day and one of the lines was that it is his job to care about how we feel..that line stood out for me…I hang onto men for far too long who don’t seem to care that much about how i feel…much more about how they feel…

    Rori also says something somewhere about we should feel good when he is and when he isn’t it our presence. I’m feeling a bit tired of giving energy to men who are withdrawers and I then feel anxious and disturbed and unsettled and desperate for the ‘comfort’ thing. It doesn’t feel good. Sure, lots of the work is mine to do, with my own feelings, now and always, but still I want to start committing somehow to moving away from these ones that exacerbate these feelings. They are not pleasant feelings to have. It is almost like I am so accustomed to the unpleasant anxious feelings I don’t know how to do anything different other than move towards them, like a moth to a light bulb. I guess staying aware of my feelings and my patterns and behaviours is a great first step.

  252.  #253Femininewoman on October 19, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Azure Blu I have learned from Tatia to take the word “pressure” out of my communication with men. It can be loaded and suggestive. Now I choose to say and think “Because this relationship is important to me I don’t want to impact what we have negatively so I…………”

  253.  #254Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Indigo, Starla, Dominique, Femininewoman –

    Thank you for caring…

    Femininewoman – No, he’s not fantasizing about sex with our friend, and when he ran to her (I asked him about this) we were all HEAVILY intoxicated and he says everything that happened there was not real, he was jacked up beyond belief and was not himself, he says. I think you may be getting a different impression than what’s going on…but if it still seems how you described, please let me know.

    What is really going on is when I told him to find us a third to HAVE SEX with, NOT to be our girlfriend, he started flirting heavily left and right with all these 18 year old girls, and I will not be with an under-ager, and I’ve told him this many times but he just keeps doing it, and he is just like telling them they have nice asses and that they are beautiful when he doesn’t pay me a single compliment like that…ever. He also said he only feels turned on by the thought of a stranger…once he is familiar with a woman, the sex abruptly ends. He said it’s not just me, every other girlfriend he’s had in the past ten years has had to either cheat on him for it or leave him for it. He said I must be much stronger than they are because I haven’t left after 7 whole months of no sex. I am not so sure I’m so strong as he thinks.

    I am not polyamorous, I have to be #1 girl, and there are no exceptions, I just thought it might be fun to share my little world with him in the BEDROOM, but it seems like he’s just pushing for things LEFT and RIGHT that make me so uncomfortable, I want to cry, so I think I know what I have to do…shut down the operation. Tell him I no longer want to do this with him (but not tell him it’s because he can’t handle it like a gentleman.) It is SO not worth it for me to sit here feeling awful while we try to have our cake and eat it too.

    I told him last night – I have to rethink this, I’m feeling awful about it and have been, and I have past hurts with it, so I want no pressure, I want the focus on US, and I want my needs met before anyone else’s.
    He looked at me with soft, caring, worried eyes and said “it’s okay, there’s no pressure here, it’s up to you.” He’s gotta be picking up on my depression, there’s just no way he wouldn’t. I am also fearful I am just telling him to do something and then telling him he’s doing it wrong all the time. All I wanted was just a play partner a friend with benefits, not for another woman to be my equal…I’m sorry I can’t handle that and if he gets angry about that, then I will have to rethink this entire relationship because I didn’t sign up for a sexless, passionless relationship.

    I want to ask him tonight why doesn’t he ever compliment me. I have lost over 50 lbs being with him and toned up and I look smoking hot but he never ever says a word to me, he apologizes for not sometimes, but it makes me think JUST DO IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

    He also said he felt like a bad boyfriend because he was too tired to listen to a part of my conversation the other night, and also that he was sorry for having to tell me he has a sexual thing for strangers and not familiars. I am so scared that if I do tell him to shut down the threesome operation he will just keep chatting up these women, probably because it makes him feel desireable and like a man, and rebellious. I can very much see that happening, and if it did, I might just have to bow out. I can’t handle that, I didn’t sign up for it. I thought he was so loyal….now I’m just not sure, either that or he’s desperately trying to find a way to get turned on elsewhere to have sex with me.

    I feel like my situation is the worst and craziest on here right now. I need to get up and do something or the pain inside me will kill me right now…

  254.  #255Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Azure – So good to see you here! I missed your voice here. I’m sorry to hear about how things with Spirit happened. Reading about that reminded me somewhat of OwlCD in that things between us just never really got going – I realized that it was always going to be this way stuck in a waiting room which for me is another form of non-intimacy. I decided that I wanted a real relationship that was actually happening in real time and that anything less was starting to feel like an insult. If I was in the same situation, I would want to circular date because things are not progressing. oxoxox I’m thinking of you.

  255.  #256Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Lovetodance – 164 – thank you : ) your response feels sunny warm and encouraging. I like street smart too – for me, it’s little bit of edge – the kind that doesn’t tolerate BS. I don’t know if it’s the same for you though I do feel curious.

  256.  #257Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    Sophie – 166 – ((((((((((Thank you)))))))))))

  257.  #258Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    Indigo – 217 – I really like this.

  258.  #259Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    Mandy – I want to breathe fire. I feel snarling grrrr’s at this man who seems to just be keeping you around. If I were in this situation questions like ‘what is actually going here?’ would start to come up for me (also I would so get out of there).

  259.  #260Veronica on October 19, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    Purple – H being in contact with you reminded me of what happened to my sister. My sister’s ex after they broke up kept contacting her saying ‘I miss you’, ‘Maybe one day I’ll deserve you’, ‘Are you dating anyone?’, ‘When are we going on holiday together’. I told her that she had the time during her relationship with him when he could’ve done relationship with her and he couldn’t for whatever reason – and that is the fact that hasn’t changed at all: he can’t do relationship with her at all. She broke complete contact with him (telling him to leave her alone basically) because she was basically being used to continue something that barely had her needs in mind. I too decided not to keep in contact with my previous ex because I realized that his idea of staying in contact was in effect me staying in a very small box just to have contact. I’ve been dread-free and panic-free since then.

  260.  #261Sassy on October 19, 2014 at 4:35 pm


    How goes the job hunt?

  261.  #262Sassy on October 19, 2014 at 4:40 pm


    Sometimes they contact you just to “test the waters” and keep you on the hook.

    I know it’s painful and obviously you are still hurting. Have you dipped your toe back in the dating world yet at all?

    Love to you sweet siren

  262.  #263Sassy on October 19, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    Why do we always want that which we cannot have?

  263.  #264Sassy on October 19, 2014 at 4:53 pm


    I had (or at least I believed it to be so at the time) a very dear friend that I had gotten very close to over the past several years. We shared things that I know we will take to our graves. However, about a year or so ago, she fell into a very deep depression and everything changed. She just completely stopped initiating any contact with me although she would respond when I contacted her. We did have dinner once or twice but then I started to feel that the friendship was just one sided and that she was just tolerating my contact. This has caused me so much hurt. Because I’m so introverted and ultra sensitive, I don’t have a lot of female friends so this has caused me to just not trust any more. I have stopped contacting her altogether and she has not made any effort at all to find out why or contact me.

  264.  #265Violette on October 19, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    Post 188 by FW, occured to me today. Something happened that involves my writing an official letter, and my thoughts went to the dreadful worst case scenario, and I realized how long it’s been since I’ve felt that way. There was a 3 or 4 year period when I felt that way all the time! I don’t know when it stopped but it’s shocking to revisit it. Because I do it all to myself. I assume I’m terrible and guilty and I need to depend on others or they’ll attack me and it’s not true. I can approach it from an irreverent place, because I didn’t do anything wrong and there’s no big deal. It feels like a new awareness.

    Woah, AD took me SHOPPING today! And spent a ton of money! And the clothes are so CUTE! And he felt so wonderful doing it, and I felt safe and cared for. And it was at Bloomies and he went WAY out of his way to make sure I got points for every dollar he spent so I could then go buy myself more things. He just wants to give to me. He doesn’t want anything from me. He wants the whole world to be good to me. He wants to protect me and defend me. The issue I touched on above, he helped me write an email for it, and he’s on my side. I’m so used to feeling unsafe, and he’s on my side. I can’t believe how relieved I feel. Like I have someone in my corner. A supporter. He has my back. He’s really nice. He just wants me to be happy. I almost can’t believe such a man is real.

    I have been focusing on the good. Last night he was so clingy and kept rubbing and tapping my hand and staring at me from the side. ANNOYING.

    But…shifting my attention to the things I like about him, for today, has been good. It has helped. It has helped me to feel less triggered in addressing my needs, like please don’t stare at me while I’m looking in front of me, I feel uneasy and I’d prefer if you don’t do it. I said that. It helped a bit.

    In bed, it was bad last night. We had a fight where he told me I could leave him if I wanted to because he couldn’t get it up. I was so raging triggered I hated him, I wanted him to take responsibility and handle it.

    But this morning he was able to make love to me a little. I feel encouraged. One weird thing though, when we were fighting, he got a big hard on. Ugh, so weird.
    It just was not a good end of the night. But he’s promised to try acupuncture, herbs, anything I want, he says, like even sex therapy. I might actually need that, because I feel wildly uneasy at the thought of helping him get hard, touching him when he’s soft gives me major panic, and he apparently needs that in order to have sex.

    But, for now, it’s ok. We’re working through it. It has brought up a great deal of sadness actually about a man I was seeing a couple of years ago who had impotence, and I couldn’t handle it and left him. I feel so sad about how that went. Regret. And seeing things still moving forward with AD makes me wish it could have been different with C back then. I really adored him. I miss him actually. The pain is coming up.

  265.  #266Violette on October 19, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Azure Blue I relate to what you say about being bewildered as to where he’s coming from. Sometimes AD seems to literally be speaking a different language, and changing what he says. In his case he appear to be a people pleaser. That’s one of the things on my list of things I don’t like about being with him (although for now I am mainly focusing on the good things) because it leaves me feeling like I’m with someone dishonest. Someone who doesn’t think for themselves and therefor could be manipulated easily by others. This may be getting away from what Spirit is like, but I relate to feeling awful when someone is unclear with me about what they want with me for sure.

    It seems you are indeed in quite the grey area. I agree that it may feel good to open up the dating pool until he can step up more. At the very least to pull away energetically and clear that space for yourself. It’s a disappointing process, and that’s a hard feeling. But you seem to have a full life and good things are sure to come to you.

    Also I relate to the posts about girlfriends pulling away. Man I want a girlfriend so bad. I miss having girls in my life. I’ve pulled away from everybody for now. I’ve been dating AD and not reaching out to any friends. Because I’m so tired of noone reaching out for me, and I don’t need them! I feel like my life will get clearer with work and stability and friends will come, friends who come to me. Friends who call me and want a friend!

  266.  #267Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 6:53 pm


    I just finished a long, typed-out speech written to him in feeling messages with no blame, about how he needs to shape up or ship out. I told him:

    “Please help me. I feel so sad and lonely. I don’t want to argue…but I want the threesome business to stop, because it’s not worth all of my constant pain and suffering, sadness and tears. I am sorry I asked you to help, I shouldn’t have, I knew it could be a very bad idea, you probably thought you were helping, and you were, and I thought I could handle it, but I JUST can’t.

    I’ve done so well with my figure and I look great, and I bust my ass to look good. I am an intelligent, and attractive woman, and by all logic I know this – I am much, much more than enough woman for you…in fact, I could basically have any other man I wanted to if I did want to, time or place I could choose to, but I don’t want anyone else. I am much more than enough for you. But I don’t feel like it. I have worked so hard to feel like enough for you – I have lost and gained over 70 lbs to feel nice and attractive enough to not feel anxious and angry every time you look at someone else, and even though it did work, I feel like my work has gone completely unnoticed, and unappreciated. Almost every other man I come into contact with, who isn’t a dear friend, wants to either take me on a date, or kiss me, and tells me you are a lucky man…but I want YOU to look at me, tell me I’m beautiful, and that my body is nice… I want you to want ME, and I feel more and more scared and sad every day, because I feel unattractive, goofy, awkward and stupid around you a lot of the time because you don’t tell me otherwise, and I am scared it will never, ever change.

    I want *you*. I am not polyamorous, I never wanted a second relationship to begin with, and when someone tries to convince me of doing something when I don’t feel comfy doing it, I feel absolutely awful. When someone does something I specifically say I am not comfy with it, I just want to run away, and I feel my will diminish. I told you specifically I didn’t want you contacting people under 21. My boundaries have been crossed, and I’m asking you to stop what you are doing.

    If you don’t want just a friend with benefits for us, we cannot do this, and I know you don’t want a friend with benefits, you want a second girlfriend. I should’ve stopped us right there when you told me that, but I tried to see what you meant, about a girlfriend, but I simply cannot. The only way you can love another woman besides me is if I am gone and done with this relationship. I will not be in a threesome relationship with MY man, who promised me he would NEVER be with anyone else like he is with me, at the same time as with me – monogamy, passion, love, intimacy and happiness, is what I signed up for, THAT is what I said “yes” to when I said yes to being your girlfriend. I thought I was being open-minded enough to invite you into the bedroom with another woman, but I guess I’m just not open minded enough to do this with you, because you want something other than what I want, and the very thought of you loving another woman when I don’t want to love her, and I don’t want you to love her, and I’m hurting like hell inside, makes me want to run away very fast.

    Either you are with me, and only me, or you and I are just friends. If I’m not number one to you like you are to me, there’s no point in this. I want and deserve to have my my needs met, some intimacy, and a compliment every once in awhile. I didn’t sign up for a situation where I am feeling miserable 24/7, for days on end, and that is all I’ve been this week – miserable, crying, depressed and hopeless, and feeling ugly, and unattractive. I’ve tried so incredibly hard to find my happiness and be understanding this week, but I simply cannot do it when I cannot truly feel I am your number one, that your energy is coming towards me. So please, keep your friends on Fetlife only as friends, nothing more, but stop hitting up people for us on Fetlife. It sucks because I asked for it, yet I dug myself into a hole, and I’m the only one who’s ended up begging for mercy on my heart, because of it. I thought I was sharing my special world with you, and showing you the biggest show of love and affection, trust and safeness, deepness and intimacy I possibly could, but it’s not, and never will be, worth all this pain and suffering. I basically did this to myself, and I feel so lonely and sad and scared right now I just want to curl up and never move.

    Please help me…I can’t stop feeling anxious, sad, lonely and depressed, and I want to stop feeling that way.”

    Please let me know how it sounds.

  267.  #268Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    PS – This is all why I was pissed about the pictures he had up, and why I asked him to take them down. Because I felt like less of a girlfriend to him than the girl in the photos looked to me. He did take them down.
    And I don’t regret it, not one bit.

  268.  #269prplpsn28 on October 19, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    Sassy 261…no I haven’t been dating. Joined a dating site but have since deactivated my account. It just felt blah. Uninteresting. I’ve been out with friends etc. That’s about it.
    H has not asked what I’ve been up to or if I’m seeing anyone. Just seems to want the contact.

  269.  #270Starla on October 19, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    Mandy, I don’t like the idea of giving him a speech like that. I love that you got clear on what you are feeling, for the sake of yourself, though. The only speech I would give that man is, “this relationship isn’t feeling good to me; i need to feel cherished and desired. i love you and would still date you, but I am taking a huge step back and keeping my options open.”

    Then lean way back and see what this man does. I believe it’s the only way to get a truly functional and happy relationship with a man in this situation.

  270.  #271Labbit on October 19, 2014 at 7:45 pm


    I’d feel attacked and confused if I received this note from a boyfriend. It sounds like you are angry right now? Well, what’s underneath all that anger?

    Your last line –> Please help me…I can’t stop feeling anxious, sad, lonely and depressed, and I want to stop feeling that way — that’s the heart of the matter. That’s what I’d encourage you to explore more…

    J can’t change how you feel. Just like you can’t change him, or control him, or tell him to be different than he is. You have some very intense feelings coming up right now…I would encourage you to take a few steps back and love on yourself, as much as you can.

  271.  #272Mistea1 on October 19, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    (((((Mandy))))) I had a boyfriend umpteen years ago who would nod off occasionally. I think it was insecurity causing him “to put up a shield.” Don’t feel this is yourfault. Your inner peace can carry you through. he has to work on his own problems. One thing I am chewing on right now is the thought: “If there are 400 yes’s and one no it may be best to honor the no.”

    ((((((Love to Dance))))))) I got your wonderful note at #205. It came in later on Sunday. thanks for the re-assurance.
    One thing I’ve done is to keep careful notes on this one. Second, I went into his world for about 3 months. I wouldn’t recommend this technique but some may be doing this accidently. It was uncomfortable but I learned a major thing about me that I needed to know. It’s taken me about a week of meditating, physical activity and awareness to come back to myself. I also did a kind of figure 8 swaying with my hips and intention of being the queen overlooking my lands. I stood up straight with my shoulders back and a confident stance. It’s a Qi Gong technique.
    This a.m. after the service I had to ask him a question about a recital later that day otherwise I am still in the process of leaning back so I was there and out. He was still in “too busy to talk” mode. It’s a shielding insecurity technique. This time it didn’t bother me.
    I had great fun at the recital when he had to give a 5 minute or so intro. I was sitting about 12 rows back with no one around me. I decided to try someones technique where she cocked her head a little and frankly looked enjoying at all she saw. Oh my, that was such fun! I never did that before. I was half smiling and he kept glancing over and away but didn’t lose his train of thought. I’ll definitly work on this one. Then after the recital I went up and gave a big hug to each of the 3 main persons and he happened to be one of them. I felt very confident, different than before.
    At the reception he again had to give an intro. I was sitting about 15 feet away and enjoyed the heck out of myself just looking at him and enjoying all I saw. Darn, I wish I had discovered this one years ago, it is so much fun!
    A comment here to be careful of getting drawn into their world. The older guys may have PTSD issues from military service etc. Like Rori says be strong and peaceful deep down this will keep you safe.
    I did not approach him after the reception but I noticed he was standing in the hall as I was going out. He tends to do this so I’ll say something but this time I went right by him and complemented the soprano profusely who was also leaving and talked with her on the way down the stairs.
    Again thank you all for your help. I’ve never been so taken with someone before in my life. I’m well beyond the baby making family stage and this one is for love and appreciation.

  272.  #273Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Labbit, this is why I wrote it out and ran it by the people on this blog…I wanted to think about it for awhile before actually giving it to him. Thank you for letting me know every bit of advice I get on here is crucial to me.

  273.  #274Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    Ladies, thank you for your input….crucial to me.

  274.  #275Mandy on October 19, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    Mistea – I feel this is what’s going on here. But it’s 400 no’s and 1 yes for him.

    Starla – you have good insight. However I don’t feel like I’d be getting across what I’d feel is crucial to get across to him, to stop what he’s doing and focus on me…

    Jeez I wish I could give him this letter because I’ve almost had it and honestly I don’t care if he feels confused and attacked, because as one siren said recently, he doesn’t seem concerned about my feelings right now…

  275.  #276Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Azure Blu,

    I just wanted to say sorry if my earlier post was flippant or insensitive.

    We are all here for you.


  276.  #277Andrea on October 19, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    The hormones come on and the neediness and clingy emotions start to rise up within me.

    What I love about myself: I’m growing up! On the weekend I had to work. I knew my CD Bob was out of town for the weekend. My new CD Railroad Guy has a company that has contracts with mine. I “worked” with him all day Friday. It was exhausting and our attraction for each other was a distraction.

    We made flirtatious overtures the whole day and instead of being satisfying, I felt ill at ease. I don’t like the distraction at work. I don’t like having to be in boy energy mode around someone that I am attracted to. I want to be feminine with him, and smiley and flirty and sensual and vulnerable.. but I also wanted to get the damn work done. It was frustrating.

    I had to drop him and his crew off at one of the head engines on his train. He let all the other guys get out first and he said, “I really want to kiss you right now, but we are at work. I won’t. But I’ll text you soon.”

    (text me… ugh)

    I just smiled wearily and drove away. I felt such a dead, exhausted energy.

    Anyway, here came the night… no contact from any
    CD’s. The next day…. no contact. The next night… no contact. And me with my “monthly” feeling all scattered and needy and distraught and emotional.

    What did I do? Nothing. Except feel ME. MEEEE. Feel me. I felt sad, lonely, despairing…. But also, in honesty… grateful, appreciative of my space, expansive. All those emotions in one being. I felt in love with myself and intriguied by my feelings. I felt exploratory. I felt tired and let myself sleep.

    This morning I organized my day. CD Bob had said that if the weather was nice he wanted to take me on a Harley ride. I hadn’t heard from him all weekend, so wasn’t sure if we were going or not. The sun was out.
    I went to the grocery store.

    I cried on the way there. The lonliness (or hormones) overtaking me. I walked in and there in the entrance were batches of fresh Fall flowers.

    I said to the clerk, “I’ve had a hard but triumphant week.” And I bought myself some flowers. I was instantly cheered. Instantly!

    And that’s when Bob texted. “Hi. The sun is out. How are you feeling?”

    I texted back. “I feel wonderful. I feel cheered. I just bought myself some flowers.”

    He texted. “I have to see you today. Harley?”

    I said, “Yes, but I’ve made plans for the morning. Will noon be okay?”

    So he came at noon and took me for an afternoon of motorcycling. And we couldn’t keep our hands off eachother. It was so sensual. He kept stopping at rest stops and scenic overlooks and we kissed so much. He took me for pie and coffee at a deli on the road. He told me that he regretted some texts that he had sent me at the beginning of the week in which I didn’t respond. He told me he has a hard time with not wanting to come off as too needy but that he wishes he could contact me everyday. He forces himself to avoid texting or calling because he doesn’t want to move too fast.

    I just listened to him. I can’t help him or guide him or instruct him what to do for the future. I told him, “I feel really wonderful and happy right now, being with you like this. I feel so giddy and infatuated. I feel so excited. You thrill me. Just right now.”

    And he was subdued and relaxed and who cared about last week or next week. It was today. So just wonderful.

    When I came home I was floating and giggling. He texted me lots of dialogue about how he felt on the motorcycle trip. And I just feel like…. I have a huge crush on this guy. Huge.

    As for Railroad Guy, still no contact. I’m curious about him. But I know enough about this whole experience with men and dating now, that I’m not going to try and appease my curiosity by contacting him. I’m going to go into my feelings about him, thank the experience for my space, my freedom to sort through my feelings and pause and breathe.

    I’m going to sleep soundly tonight and smile big smiles and dream and then get on with MY life on Monday. My big wonderful full life.

    I don’t know if Bob will contact me, or if RailRoad guy will, or if any of my other CD’s who have kind of dropped into the back drop will contact me…..

    But I do know…. I have the ability to make myself feel very happy and at peace…

    I also know that around every corner of my life is another chance to flirt, to smile, to be… feminine, sensual, soft… another man who takes notice.
    Each experience with new rounds of CD’s leads me closer to that one. I just marvel at the fact that I didn’t even know Bob or Railroad Guy just two and a half weeks ago and now both of them consume my dating thoughts.

    There are always other men, new experiences and adventures to go on. As soon as I release one, another comes to take his place, and they seem to be getting better and better, treating me with more genuine adoration than ever. I love it.

  277.  #278Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 10:20 pm


    Just, wow.

    I want so much better for you.


  278.  #279Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 10:21 pm



    Feels nice to see you back here.


  279.  #280Indigo on October 19, 2014 at 10:22 pm


    I always felt when H asked for space that things weren’t truly over for him with you.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he keeps popping into your life like that.

  280.  #281Millie on October 19, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Andrea <3 I love your story!!!

    Siren's, I went on a date last night with a guy who has been pursuing me. It was actually pretty amazing. He took me to dinner in his vintage car, opened the doors for me, was very gentlemanly, and also got tickets to a halloween festivey event happening afterward. I felt really surprised and amazed at his efforts and creativity with the date. It was fun, and I practiced expressing my appreciation for every little thing. I let him kiss me, but I feel very medium about him. Like if he never called again, I wouldn't care, but he does seem to like me a lot. He said he loves how I make him feel. But I don't really feel anything!!! Reluctance maybe? If anything. I don't understand why that happens and it makes me really frustrated with relationships and feel very hopeless with them. Two people never seem to be on the same page in my experience. Anyway, he picked me up today and did some work on my car, which was pretty amazing and masculine, so I should be ecstatic.

    I went to dinner with another guy tonight, who is a friend, but he keeps dropping hints about dating. Like I mentioned that I've had experiences with men not calling me back, and he said, with sincerity, "How can that be possible?" and I asked him if he was going to this halloween party and he said if he was in town, he'd be my date. I don't know how I feel, medium about him too. I have fun with him, but I don't want to sleep with him, so I don't encourage it. I feel a little bad, because I can sense he is sensitive.. and I kind of want to yell, just man up and take me on a date! stop all this wishy washy ness, but then again I'm wishy washy on how I feel so what can I expect.

    Out of town guy and I have been talking quite a lot, he mentioned coming out to visit and talks about getting re-married, but I'm afraid of getting too involved in an imaginary relationship, so I'm leaning back a bit and seeing what he does.

  281.  #282Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 1:00 am

    @ Mandy
    Dear Mandy,
    I feel your pain and I have been in your shoes. I need to share with you, that it has been my experience that we can not make someone desire us neither we can make someone love us. And there is absolutely no point in asking someone to focus on you.
    I see you want to save this man, we women tend to do that, we want to save the men we love from their addictions, from their lack of discipline, from their weaknesses. This is a terrible trap, because when you do not manage to save him, you start to feel like a failure yourself, and I am here to tell you, it is not you who is failing, it is him.
    S*x is the very basis for a healthy long term relationship with a man, and when this is missing, there is nothing to build on. Be gentle on yourself, love yourself. There is really no need for drama, no need for harsh words, no need for too much explanations. It is very simple, you just need to love yourself with all your heart, and go back to CDing.

  282.  #283Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 1:31 am

    @ Azure Blu 242
    you have tens of cheerleaders here, we all love you, and support you, and are fascinated by your strenght and capacity to grow.
    From the way you tell your story, I can see the man has some reservations about you. He probably has a mental list of things he likes about you, and one with things he dislikes. He is only human, and like all of us, he is weighting the pros and cons of having a committed relationship with you. Right now, the lists seem to have kind of balanced out, and It seems to me that you would only scare him if you suggest to him to go back to seeing other people. You need to be very very patient with him, and if you like to open yourself again for other men, you can do it without letting him know or asking for his permission, because he does not seem to want to occupy all your time, and does not seem to be claiming you to be his. Two weeks without contact is way too much time for a man who wants to book you for himself.
    There is a lot of subtle, non-verbal communication that is going on in any relationship, and the fact that he ignored your birthday is a big deal. But it is also a test as to your character and strenght, and he is watching you. He is watching to see how you handle disappointment, how you handle no contact, how you handle rejection. He needs to see whether he can get the type of respect he wants from you, and that is a very subjective thing, and may be strongly testing your boundaries.
    On a separate note, I would like to share with you something I found out from a friend who is very religious (I am not) which I found amazing. She is from a faith which denies birth control, but still she is not pregnant all the time. Out of curiousity I asked her how they go about it, and she said yes, they use contraception, and then they repent. She said God forgives when you repent. This really beats me, but I figured religious people have these ways of repenting and forgiving sins, and it is a very central topic in their functioning that is different from the view of atheists. What do you think?

  283.  #284Femininewoman on October 20, 2014 at 2:11 am

    Mandy I agree with Starla. I also believe he would not read that long letter. A lot of men have a short attention span and such a long letter is likely to overwhelm anyway. Also asking him to stop came across to me like you trying to control him. If he is a man worth his salt he will not allow you to control him.

    He told you about the girlfriends who left him maybe that was his way of letting you he has reached his limit of the amount of love he is able to let him. Someone suggested earlier that you maybe unconsciously trying to rescue this man. I encourage you if you do believe you have all that going on for you ask yourself “why am I here?”. Truly after all you have written I can’t see why you would even be offering him such a letter. Anybody who would hurt you so deeply is not even a friend in my body. This man is not clueless. He is doing the work you hired him to do.

  284.  #285Mandy on October 20, 2014 at 2:14 am

    You know it’s very strange, I feel very strange and like i want to hide from this blog…I really feel some shame right now. Can’t quite explain why.

    sometimes I do explain things in a very dramatic manner as though the world were ending when I feel bad emotion, and I’ve been trying to work on that. I feel like also maybe I’ve just been griping about things that might be understandable from a different perspective…he likes to try to see if he can convince me of things, and he likes to see if a particular thing would make me happy and be fun, and he likes to do what he thinks is helpful for sure.

    It could be he was just trying to help me by going on the site and chatting up some women the best way he knows how, and found someone he thought I’d like even though she wasn’t my age preference…and thought maybe I could open my mind and not see it as a big deal. Maybe he’s innocent here and just had man-thoughts and honestly thought he was helping.
    I have a tiny hunch that men only know how to chat up women a certain way, by flattery and conversation, and i asked him to chat up some…so maybe he thought he was helping and making me happy, finding someone who could help us, etc.

    It sounds like him. He told me tonight we really don’t have to do this, he was just going by what he thought i wanted, and trying to help, but if it’s causing me this much pain and stress, he’d rather not do it at all ever if it is going to cause me this pain.

    That was the answer I wanted. Rori said he was a good man and he proved it again by saying that.

    Maybe I made him out to be a monster…and if that’s true…wow…I feel guilty…

  285.  #286Femininewoman on October 20, 2014 at 2:16 am

    Millie I am feeling thrilled to read about your adventures.

  286.  #287Indigo on October 20, 2014 at 2:16 am

    Mandy 266,

    I have had feelings like these in previous relationships I’ve been in, and with D – not the same exact situation, but feelings just as intense as this.

    And what I have learnt is that when the message is this long, men tend to not hear you. They cannot take it all in. I know you are going through some intense feelings, and you want to be heard, but may I suggest summarising your main points, to make them simpler and in a way he can hear.

    I would suggest choosing your three (or four tops) main issues, and writing them in this format:

    “When you do _____________, it makes me feel ___________. I don’t want that”

    You can personalise it in your own language. That puts it into context and ensures your message doesn’t get lost in possible disappointment and blame and high emotion. Just simple and clear. And don’t put everything in the first email – let him respond to your first message and then you can provide more information – go “rounds” with him.

    Sorry if this comes as across as too instructive, it’s just what I’ve found to be more effective with men.

    Love xx

  287.  #288Mandy on October 20, 2014 at 2:53 am

    Indigo I hope you do know I think you are brilliant, and are pretty much always right on the money with what you say.

    I believe you are right. I get so wordy. i have so many things I hope I get across.

    SO wordy. Even on here. The other night was beautiful because he naturally asked all the questions i needed him to, and what I needed him to have my answer to, about five times, it s great, I felt so heard and cared about!

  288.  #289Indigo on October 20, 2014 at 3:54 am

    Mandy, you made me blush right down to my toes 🙂

    In fact, I was in a situation with D just this week where there was something I was uncomfortable about.

    I have to admit, the temptation to stuff the feeling was there. But I didn’t. I experimented with this simple, clear, concise communication – not too much “hurt” or intense emotion in what I said. I just kept the message clear. And though his initial response was defensive, the message did get across because when I saw him last night he was completely different and had addressed what I spoke about.

    I know I kind of have to fight the temptation to let everything I feel just hang out in all it’s passionate glory, just in order to make myself heard. I’d rather care for my feelings on my own and make my message to him more concise and effective.

  289.  #290Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 4:02 am

    Even if you remove the miscommunication and the misconceived attempt at finding a partner for a threesome, you still have the underlying issue of him not wanting to have s*x with you. What is it exactly that he does for you which compensates the lack of s*x?

  290.  #291Daria on October 20, 2014 at 5:21 am

    i got in my head today about how i will handle my dating rotation when i build it…

    as in… well i eat my special diet food and that might very much limit what restaurants i can eat…

    and i dont really like coffee

    and i dont drink alcohol…

    i feel concerned that im making it too hard for men by just being myself

    oh wait theres also that i dont really want a guy who works a regular job, because whoever will be with me should be down to move to brazil

    and that i want men to worship me… sexually and plus

    and now im feeling a little relieved writing this down

  291.  #292Daria on October 20, 2014 at 5:23 am

    omg Mandy just read the frist paragraph and am feeling so triggered

    PLEASE work with one of Rori’s free coaches so you can start to CD and enjoy your wonderful life!

  292.  #293Daria on October 20, 2014 at 5:27 am

    im noticing that when someone is not doing things i can think of to take care of themselves… like women online, or my mom… maybe mostly when women do this

    i feel REALY REALLY triggered and ANGRY


    is this cuz my mom felt angry when i would feel bad when i was little and i picked up the pattern

    i dono and it doenst matter

    but i feel so triggerd feeling so ANGRY and contemptous and triggered to tell them what to do

    and its really really challenging and i feel uncomfortable feeling this way

    challengingto NOT tell them what to do and to feel peace in myself, ufffff


  293.  #294Daria on October 20, 2014 at 5:29 am

    i also get thoughts that they wouldnt do what i say like my mom

    they just deny my advice and my knowledge and just act disparaging like my stuff i worked on to know and have in my power does not exist and i feel so ANGRY about this

    instead they just complain and my mom i noticed in the past even with me it seemed to me was undermining or denying my knowledge of caring for self like … what if its really something else, anything else other than what you think it is

    i feel MAD and actually right now i feel blank

  294.  #295Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 5:54 am

    @ Daria 293
    My mom has been giving me bad advice for the last 20 years or so. I never followed it, but she keeps giving it, and I keep ignoring it.
    She is just stupid, and it is not her fault. I love her with all my heart, God bless her, she is just a stupid woman. We do not get to choose our parents.

  295.  #296Sassy on October 20, 2014 at 5:55 am

    I’m feeling angry because I allowed myself to feel my feelings and got stepped on and trampled again.

    No more! No more Nomore!

  296.  #297Indigo on October 20, 2014 at 6:03 am


    I agree with Victoria. Even if this can be solved with communication, I just don’t know of anything that would compensate for a sexless relationship. Are you sure you want to keep struggling through this?

  297.  #298Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 6:13 am

    May be there is something that is worth is, I just don’t know. People are complicated creatures, and we are very much alike, but also very different.
    I tried to work through a sexually problematic relationship when I was very young. Looking back at it, some of the issues came from us being too young, and not particularly suited to be in a committed relationship at the time (we were 18-20). Some of the other issues were that he was cheating on me, but did not want to break up with me, so it was a mess in his head. And some of it was that I wanted to belive that I have super feminine powers and I could work it out and make him desire me more than he actually did… Looking at it from a positive angle, it was a painful, but very useful lesson for me.

  298.  #299Sassy on October 20, 2014 at 6:13 am

    Riffing here…

    I feel tense in my shoulders, they feel as if they are up around my ears.
    I feel irritated and want to scream and yell and shake anyone that talks to me. My fists clench and my face is scrunched up in anger
    They (whoever “they” are), say that beneath Anger is fear.

    So yes, my fear is now and always has been of being rejected and abandoned, of being replaced. Yes I have been rejected and abandoned and replaced.
    Ok little girl, cry it out, let me hug you and hold you and stroke your hair. It’s ok, shhhhh.
    No one has the right to hurt you.
    Let it go, move on.

  299.  #300Sassy on October 20, 2014 at 6:18 am

    9 times out of 10, most men’s s€Xual problems or issues have absolutely NOTHING to do with the woman they are in love with, involved with, dating or care about.

    Unfortunately we are all too quick to blame it on ourselves or take responsibility for these issues.

  300.  #301Femininewoman on October 20, 2014 at 6:24 am


    In the simplest terms – things always are what they are.

    They can’t be fixed until they’re accepted.

    Meaning – being with a person who’s deliberately – yes, deliberately and knowingly – withholding the basics of relationship: sex – is not good for you.

    You have low self-esteem because you’re determined to get what you want from HIM – and, of course, he’s not giving it.

    Your best move here is to tell him to MOVE OUT!!

    To STOP supporting him!

    Put HIM in the friend zone!

    Get yourself together, write a speech, and simply say that this isn’t working for you as a romance and a relationship, and you’d like to stay friends with him, of course, but that you need him to leave so you can start dating other men.

    Straight out.

    Then you DO that! Start dating other men and leave him in the dust.

    He’s opting out of this relationship.

    Do NOT buy into his game.

    If it were me, I’d tell him I assume he’s gay, or no longer attracted to me, and that that might work as a friendship later on, but for now, it feels too awful, and I just want a clean break and some space.

    Then I’d cry and move on – AND have my own money!!!!!

    Love, Rori

  301.  #303nyx on October 20, 2014 at 6:40 am


    After your former letter about him running after your friend, and him chatting up another girl online, I asked myself: “Who is he trying to impress? Because whoever it is, women, other men by his “achievements” or himself- it clearly is not Mandy…”

    You are not first in his life. How is this: “he started flirting heavily left and right with all these 18 year old girls, and I will not be with an under-ager, and I’ve told him this many times but he just keeps doing it”
    how is that anything you can POSSIBLY interpret as “maybe he thought he was helping and making me happy”?

    We keep making excuses for men when we are in love. Often, they take advantage of that- why narrow down their freedom more than they absolutely have to? It seems to me he again and again proves that he wants younger women, gets turned on by them, loves to show himself off with them.

    Moving out might help with the “you’re too familiar for me to turn me on”-part. But you can’t, and probably wouldn’t want to become 18 again…

    This is all your situation, your feelings, your decision, your heartache… and only you can decide, and will be the one that will live with the results.
    But I agree with Indigo’s words: “I want so much better for you”.

    Hugs, lots.

  302.  #304Starla on October 20, 2014 at 7:39 am

    My last relationship was the best I’d had, but it ended because the sex stopped. It still happened once a week or so, but he wasn’t always finishing, and he did tell me he could take it or leave it. He also told me he had this problem with all his girlfriends. For the first month or so of it being an issue, I tried to figure it out, understand his desires to be more appealing to him, and also tried the whole leaning way back thing. Honestly, I only did that stuff because he was my dear friend before we dated, so I wasn’t keen on dumping him over sex and hurting his feelings. There were more than few explanations re: why he was not pursuing sex with me more and also finishing when we had sex, and I entertained them all, but in hindsight, I see now that there are some major issues that he won’t talk about or admit to himself. However, none of that matters; what matters is the practical manifestation. In this case, I wasn’t getting laid as much as I’d like. I should have ended our exclusive arrangement then and there.

    Rule #1 for being my exclusive partner: you have to desire me deeply.

    He had Rule #2 down — being respectful and kind to me — which is why I let Rule #1 slide for so long. Plus, in the beginning, he was really really really into me sexually, so I let the past make up for the present.

    I do wish I could go back in time and end the relationship about 1 month prior, right when I felt something needed to change. Instead, I tried to talk to him about it, and to his credit he did listen and at least feign trying to make it better.

    Yeah… man…. ((((((((((((((((me)))))))))))))))))))

    I still haven’t processed this all the way. It’s painful.

  303.  #305Labbit on October 20, 2014 at 7:40 am

    Victoria 282 — I feel very intrigued and curious about this part of your comment to Mandy…

    ‘There is a lot of subtle, non-verbal communication that is going on in any relationship, and the fact that he ignored your birthday is a big deal. But it is also a test as to your character and strength, and he is watching you. He is watching to see how you handle disappointment, how you handle no contact, how you handle rejection. He needs to see whether he can get the type of respect he wants from you, and that is a very subjective thing, and may be strongly testing your boundaries.’

    And it makes me wonder, what would I do in this situation? How would I react? What would he expect me to do if he did these things?

  304.  #306Starla on October 20, 2014 at 7:57 am

    “I feel anxious and rejected much of the time. I don’t want to be in a sexless relationship. I need to feel cherished and important. I am always making excuses in my mind for why you don’t provide these things to me, and trying to pressure you to change, and I don’t want to do that anymore. I am going to take a step back and start keeping my dating options open.” Then leave. Go to the store and say you’ll be back in an hour.

    Mandy, to me that distills everything you want to say to him. Don’t fall into the explaining trap. He knows what he’s done to make you feel those ways. He might play dumb, but he knows deep down. It doesn’t matter if he acts like you’re crazy for being upset — his opinion doesn’t matter. So many times us women want to explain ourselves with examples and details so that the men can’t say we’re just crazy. Don’t worry about it. All that matters is you take care of yourself.

    Be warned, however, that if you start dating other men and moving on with your life, his erections will return for you. And you might think everything is fixed, until he “has you” again, and he loses his sex drive yet again.

  305.  #307Veronica on October 20, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Mandy – 266 – I’ve been thinking a lot about what you wrote. I don’t want to give advice – I would rather like to explore this.

    Firstly though I think you’ve done so much for yourself, taking care of your health while all this is happening, tuning into your desires, trying your best and a variety of ways to make this situation a better feeling situation for you. So that sounds like a lot of self-love is happening there – it’s waiting to burst through and be recognized – at least that’s how it sounds from your words.

    From your letter I get this:
    You feel sad, lonely, on edge, anxious, angry, scared, awkward, misunderstood, depressed, miserable
    ‘I am more than enough’
    ‘I am attractive and intelligent and a siren’
    ‘I totally appreciate myself’
    ‘I want to feel more than enough with the man I love and who loves me’
    ‘I want to feel noticed and appreciated’
    ‘I want monogamy, passion, love, intimacy’
    ‘I want to stop feeling the feelings listed above’
    ‘I need help with this’

    If I wrote your letter this is where I would be:
    I’m in this relationship with this man. I feel scared. I don’t believe this man will stay/ rev up into relationship mode if I honour my need/s. This terrifies me so much that I want to make things right. I have this unexamined belief that this is the best relationship I’ll ever have and I allow it to hinder me. I feel vulnerable and don’t want to regret my choices. I don’t want to make a decision and I don’t know what it’ll take for me to make that decision (if that’s needed) and believe in it. As a result I feel lost. As a result I know there’s better for me but I can’t even imagine it yet. I feel too scared to face the idea that this isn’t a relationship I want. I need to separate what my stuff is out of all this twisty-ness.

    My message to him:
    I don’t share. (as in I don’t do polyamory, threesomes)

    What I’d want to explore for myself:
    Who this amazing goergeous sireny me is – all her stuff from the amazing to the ordinary to the scary to the icky – and how I fall in love with her when each of this happens.

    Explore how I want to be in a relationship – how do beautiful flowers near the window make me feel, how does being an outrageous flirt with my boyfriend/ other men feel, how does sharing my passions with people around me feel, what do the tools open up for me and how do I feel about that, how does sharing with my partner moments that I experience that made me feel so turned on to love and life feel, how being vulnerable, scared and loving that anyway feels, etc, etc. Basically already doing, feeling through how I’d want to be in a relationship – to know how that feels like for myself. Saying to myself: I completely adore, accept and love myself over and over until it becomes my vibrant energy.

  306.  #308Starla on October 20, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Sassy, the job search is still slow. I have been applying regularly and following up, but no interviews. I do have 1 job in the works but I’m not really interested. I have this weird feeling like next week everything will start to move. Thanks for asking 🙂

  307.  #309Mistea1 on October 20, 2014 at 8:21 am

    ((( nyx ))))) Love your comment about making excuses for them. wonderful.
    see my notes at about 201 etc. Luckily I’m writing this down. I remember a couple of years ago my brother and I took a trip to visit relatives. After a few days we began the petty sibling arguments with him trying to tell me what to do etc. Then we reached our destination where he was to give a public talk. My gosh I didn’t recognize him. He became gracious, charming etc. What a shock! I mentioned this to another member of my family and they were surprised too. We thought he was too disabled to talk to a general audience. He’s very intelligent.
    I go back to this incident of this other man who was so awkward around me, moods etc. What a shock to see him be the ‘life of the party’ at the recital. I heard comments about how he knows how to have a good party.
    I will not have two people in my life like this even if one has the possibility of adult goodies with me. My brother I am sort of stuck with and we might have a civil visit about once a month for a couple of hours. Sort on the level of “He ain’t heavy sir, he’s my brother.”
    But the other one, great talent, speaks his passion in his music. Darn, darn, darn, (see me literally jumping up and down with desire and frustration!!!!) This guy has thoroughly seduced me with the music and I can always listen to him play in public for now. I will not be treated like some second hand dishrag though. Luckily I have started to practice CDing and now I am going to have to get more serious. I’ve had some good practice with this guy any way. I’m back to feeling inner confidence so I can move on I hope. They both have a problem they have to fix and so far at least from my brother’s view he’s not interested in finding his own relationship.
    I do know that having a love relationship and working out the dynamics has great mental, physical, spiritual and emotional benefits at any age. It is just very hard to do. If you don’t know about that or have experienced it you may not see the worth in it.
    Aah well, se la vie, (spelling).

  308.  #310Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 8:23 am

    I feel flattered that you are curious.
    Here is what I think: there are no right or wrong answers here as to what to do. In a relationship we both discover what we are and whether we are compatible with each other. But I am pretty sure that men are watching us, and evaluating us, and there is constant feedback as to whether what we are/what we do sits well with them or not. And then, when we pay attention to the message, it is our choice whether we want to comply, renegotiate, or next him.
    When a man is ignoring your birthday which socially is an event where celebration and gifts are in place, this is either because 1)he is socially incompetent, or 2) he is signalling to you that he is reconsidering how much he likes you.
    So, for example, you get to choose whether you want to be with someone who is socially incompetent. I am actually right now dating someone who is, and he is learning, very very slowly how to do things right by me, and what i do is encourage positive behavior and ignore negative behavior. But I can not afford to critisize him or tell him that he is socially incompetent because I do not want to offend him, and it is more important for me to be with him, than to have the perfect gentleman (which he is not). Mind you, he is such an amazing lover that I can forgive many faults.
    What would you do? It also matters what other options you have. This is why CDing is such a perfect idea.

  309.  #311Veronica on October 20, 2014 at 8:26 am

    Indigo – 278 – (((((Hi Indigo))))) Aw thank you xx

  310.  #312Veronica on October 20, 2014 at 8:34 am

    I tried the ‘paint yourself with love’ tool again but in a more focused way. Wa so much came up for me. At first I noticed resistance as though I didn’t deserve this loving on myself. I was actually feeling scared/thrilled. And then I noticed that it was slowly changing the way I touch myself – with love. And touch then became a form of love. Afterwards I felt so calm and so wanting to love me and take care of me – time slowed down according to this love rhythm. I felt awed. My interactions with my loved ones felt more gentle. Later in the day I was touching Funny and the same feeling happened – as though love and touch were flowing into each other, as though I were painting him with love. I felt surprised and amazed. I could see how he just soaked up my touch. Wow.

  311.  #313Sassy on October 20, 2014 at 9:09 am

    New thread up, ladies

  312.  #314Andrea on October 20, 2014 at 9:47 am

    One of the reasons my ex and I lasted as long as we did:

    He had a bout with prostate cancer long before he met me. He survived but was flacid when it came to sex. He believed he couldn’t get hard and like some of the men I’ve read about here he said he could.. “take it (sex) or leave it.”

    Me? I can’t. But I stopped “trying to make men get aroused” a long time ago. Even before I started the Rori tools, I knew how to be a sex goddess for ME.

    When we finally made love, he told me he had a hard time getting hard. He tried to reassure me… it wasn’t about me etc…

    I said… “Huh? I don’t care if you’re hard or not.”

    I had him lie on his back. I sat on top of him and placed his soft “man part” in between the lips of my “woman part” and let his head softly bounce against my “cl*t”. Then I slid up and down on him.

    He began, of course, squeezing my “other parts” and guiding my toosh. And I screamed and wailed and “got off” on top of him. He was so turned on by me orgasm-ing on his soft-ness, that he got hard… really hard.

    And even to the day that we finally broke up he tells me he’s never had sex like that before and that he only has to imagine that again and he gets hard. He said it wasn’t about whether he got aroused or not, but that experience was the first time he’d ever seen a woman get so turned on and get off so passionately just using his body. He’d never realized that his body could be such a turn on with out him being hard. He’d never seen someone just abandon themselves to their own pleasure because of his body.

    It’s something that now gets validated over and over again with Rori’s tools. When it comes to s*x…… Men want to see women come and not be so concerned with them coming. Men want to know that what ever they have to offer, it is not only “good enough” for the woman in their life…. but it’s THE BEST she’s ever had. The only way I can show him that is if I know myself and my own body and what I truly need to get off.

    For me… on top of him with a nice soft… something… to ride on….. does it.

    I’m not saying that’s for everybody, all I’m saying is that the more I am concerned with my own orgasm, the more I am concerned with my own juiciness, and sensuality, and what turns me on… the more relaxed my partner is.

  313.  #315Indigo on October 20, 2014 at 10:12 am


    “When a man is ignoring your birthday which socially is an event where celebration and gifts are in place, this is either because 1)he is socially incompetent, or 2) he is signalling to you that he is reconsidering how much he likes you”

    I agree with you. Last year I was dating a guy who sent me a text on my birthday. He was away for the weekend, but even when I saw him which was I think 2 days later, there was no gift or fuss made. I remember thinking at the time that this was a loud, clear message of his lack of seriousness.

  314.  #316Indigo on October 20, 2014 at 10:16 am


    “Men want to see women come and not be so concerned with them coming. Men want to know that what ever they have to offer, it is not only “good enough” for the woman in their life…. but it’s THE BEST she’s ever had.”

    Yes. D is the best sex I’ve ever had, and it’s in part because he’s more concerned with my pleasure than he is with his own. He is the one who really brought home to me that men are made much happier by pleasing us. Now I just give into it, I give into the kisses and the snuggles and the orgasms and the pleasure, and I let him know how good it feels. And he often tells me I am the best sex he’s ever had (I agree with Victoria, with a wonderful lover there’s a lot you tend to forgive).

  315.  #317Starla on October 20, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    I did make sex all about my pleasure… that was why we also lasted as long as we did.

    I feel so glad all that is behind me. I deserve better. We are both barely 30, and it was something much deeper causing his impotence, whether it’s denied homosexuality or a serious aversion to commitment, or both. Love that guy, though. He is a great person and I only think loving things.

    But he’s not the man for me. I want many years of hot sex, thank you very much!

  316.  #318lovetodance on October 20, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    wow andrea…314
    thanks for sharing…
    wonderfull, beautifull and totally liberating!

  317.  #319Victoria on October 20, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    You are an amazing sexual Goddess!
    I really really loved what you wrote.
    I have a similar experience that men get turned on by seeing women get turned on or having an orgasm. It works both ways when you are in love – I get turned on by seeing my man experience great pleasure. And i really adore his body – he is beautiful but also shy because he thinks he is not perfect ( i swear he is perfect for me). I am so grateful for having him when i think about the sexual joy we share.

  318.  #320Labbit on October 20, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    Victoria thank you for the expanded explanation!

    And yes I know what you mean about men’s bodies and their self-confidence…TenderCD would not even take his shirt off the first few times we made love because he felt like his stomach wasn’t perfect. But I like him all the more for that ‘flaw’…to me it is perfect. He’s super athletic and in great shape! And likewise I have cellulite on my thighs that I’m highly sensitive about, so it turns me on all the more when Tender tells me how much he loves my legs, when he touches them and kisses them and runs his hand along them.

    Great post Andrea…thank you for being so open to sharing that!

  319.  #321Dominique on October 20, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Lovetodance – there are certain words which Rori has programmed in which will send a comment into moderation due to things which have happened here in the past. She will see it eventually and release it. 🙂 xxoo

  320.  #322lovetodance on October 20, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    thank you dominique for your response…xoxoxo

  321.  #323Mistea1 on October 21, 2014 at 4:03 am

    Andrea, thanks for your comment. I hope to be able to use it.

  322.  #324LindyInLove on October 21, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    I’ve been reading all the responses here and some feel so encouraging to me and some I feel their pain and some just make me smile. Like all of you I have my own specific situation. I hope you will indulge me and let me get my situation off my chest and maybe you can also find it in your heart to respond with your own words of advice, encouragement or support.

    I am familiar with Rori’s methods. I have been reading her email blasts for probably nine years now. So that is my first background — I am not blind about how to approach a man. I am sure I don’t know all I need to know though. I spent 20yrs with a man that I was very much in love with the entire 20 years and whom I thought was in love with me. That ended tragically with me finding out he was clinically considered narcissistic and a sociopathic liar. He was practicing financial infidelity, which can be every bit as hurtful as the traditional kind of infidelity. I think it made me doubt myself and that I am lovable just for me.

    Now for today. . . .

    I have been with the same guy for the past eight years now. I love him and I am happy with our life about 80% of the year. He is financially stable and responsible; this important to me after how my marriage functioned. We have wonderful intimacy even after eight years together. He is taking one medication that treats anxiety, depression, OCD and paranoia. I have seen so much happiness in him since he finally started taking this medicine! It took seven years of quietly being supportive when he’d bring up his misery. I’d say things like: “It sounds like you are really hurting inside. I hear you saying you are feeling sad and worthless. I feel sad inside when I hear your feeling so much pain.” Then he’d bring up how he *should* go on antidepressants because all his past girlfriends had told him he’s chronically depressed. I’d respond: “It sounds like that was difficult to hear from them.” Then I would take his hand and try to look him in the eyes (often he looks down; he doesn’t like a lot of eye contact with anyone) and I’d say, “You know, I don’t feel like I need to tell you what to do. I see you as a man who is capable of knowing what he needs to do to live a happy and satisfying life. If it is anti-depressants you feel you need I will be very supportive of that decision. I feel a lot of compassion for your hurt.” Then I would just let him sit with the moment. Anyways, he ended up finally going on them after seven years of dating him. And they have helped him a lot but he is still discontent with his career and sometimes he says he is discontent with our relationship too.

    In April of this year he asked me to move in with him. I had lost my job and he said he didn’t want me to worry about being homeless and that he wanted to see how living together might go. I spent the spring and summer not looking for a new job and tended to the house, flexed around his schedule and took care of a lot of personal business for my parents since my mom is gone and my dad has dementia and can’t handle his finances etc anymore. We had a really nice summer. He has told me he felt that way too so I know it wasn’t just me. We had some weekends away and lots of nice times at home too.

    Now autumn is here. He has a pattern of behavior that is very quirky when it comes to autumn and this year I don’t know what to do about it (because this year he is on the right meds so I didn’t expect this to happen.) He has some issue with the holidays. It starts with Halloween, which he HATES! It is something from childhood but he won’t go into it and I won’t *be mommy* and pry into it. Then it spills over into Thanksgiving, Christmas, with a brief reprieve for New Years (which he appears to enjoy) and then returns to exist until Valentine’s Day has come and gone. Here is the quirk: Every year his anxiety level goes up and at some point over something tiny he finally sort of falls apart/explodes and says something like “We weren’t meant for each other and I don’t want to date anymore. We can be friends but we are not going to make this a lifetime thing.” This year the *tiny thing* was that he got irritated with a particular anecdote I was relating to him in the car. There was nothing offensive about it. He just didn’t like that it took more than about 5 sentences to tell it and it made him feel agitated that I wasn’t *getting to the point*. The thing is he doesn’t seem to mean it. He is moody for a few days after he does this and then he’s back taking me to dinner, movies, out of town for the weekend etc. Last year when he did this we were not living together and I told him for the first time that I did not appreciate the destructive pattern he was in and that he could continue with it in his life but I was not going to honor it in mine. I stepped away from him and just lived my life — went to work, got together with friends, took an art class, spent time with my grown daughters, etc. He texted and I’d make my replies short if at all. When he’d text “How’s it going?” IF I replied I’d say something like: “Life is good. I’m off to an art class right now.” I didn’t ask how he was. I didn’t say I missed him (but I did!) and I refused to let the content I was communicating let him know I missed him. Then about a week before Thanksgiving he called and said he’d like to help me plan a Thanksgiving dinner at his house for my family (he doesn’t have family in town). He said he missed me and felt like he’d said hurtful things and wanted to make it up to me. This is how it goes with him. He doesn’t say “I love you” and never really has much. Maybe once or twice a year. But he does many, many things that SHOW me he loves me — pays for everything (even more now that I live with him; he insists on paying all the bills and pays when we go out.) So imagine my surprise when this year — after him asking me to live with him in April — he gets up in arms about that dumb anecdote in the car and tells me he wants to break up but that I can still live in his home and that he doesn’t care how long it takes for me to get a job because he enjoys taking care of things for me. Confusing! He didn’t ask me to move out of the bedroom or anything. We didn’t fight. I just looked at him and asked him if he felt like sharing his feelings about this or not. He said he felt like there was “too much drama” (which I think is guy code for something that means *I don’t like living with you* or something similar) and that he thought we’d be great together when I moved in in April. He said summer had been great but *I was causing too much stress and drama in his life* now that autumn was here. The only thing that changed that I can see is that I started looking for a job, which means I get rejection notices and have interviews and some turn into second interviews, etc, but so far no good new job fit. I don’t talk to him about it unless he asks in fact. I am actually not feeling stressed out by the job search because I have the comfort of living with him and him taking care of the bills. For me, the change from summer to autumn is just about going from summer months that are sunny to winter months that are rainy and dreary but my mood and actions haven’t changed that much. I’ve checked with other trusted sources about this.

    I felt a need to go on and on about the details because you all are women and will understand how to read those details and extract the important stuff. I just don’t know if I should be concerned about this or not. Is it just a quirk I’d have to live with should I decide to continue to live with him and associate with him? I have to say this: I am more self-confident in my own abilities and my own life than I have ever been and I am over fifty years of age and this doesn’t bother me. My entire life doesn’t have to hinge around being with a man. I can find meaningful things in my life without dating that leads to a committed relationship. However, I DO love this man and I DO see a wonderful future with him if this is what he so desires with me as well. If this is not his desire — and won’t ever become his desire — then I’m prepared to move out and move on with my own life.

    There’s my story. Any and all comments will be greeted with a spirit of an open heart. I am hear to learn about myself and grow through the experience of interacting with others.

  323.  #325Indigo on October 21, 2014 at 11:52 pm


    Firstly I just wanted to say that I enjoyed reading your post. You seem to have a nice, “light touch” approach to all of this, and a relaxed capable vibe which comes through, and I’m sure that your man is drawn to that.

    I resonated with your situation because I have experienced many of the same things with the man I have in my life, and I do believe this is a type of man. There were many similarities between my D’s behaviour and your man. He also invited me to move in and things were great for a while, and then he seemed to regret it and had a meltdown. He also finds it very difficult to commit. We have been together off and on for 4 years and he also has a pattern over that whole time of having a meltdown over something small or insignificant and then complaining that there was too much “drama” (drama created by him!). Like you, I also couldn’t see that there was anything I had done to set him off, or that my moods or behaviours had changed much. I too love him and can picture a very happy future for us if he can bring himself to that point.

    Things are much better between us these days, and the turning point came when I realised this really wasn’t about me. Men like this carry a great deal of fear and the pressure which sets them off comes from inside themselves, not you. That said, I realised I was not to blame for his moods or outburst, and neither could I control whether or how he dealt with his issues. So I took the focus off him as much as possible and onto myself. Focusing on healing me, which can create a healing space for him also. I focused on taking the best possible care of myself that I could muster, and doing things which felt good, enjoyable, invigorating, calming, building my own good feelings and trust in myself.

    I also started to become aware of how I was speaking to him, and where my energy was in regards to him, and how I had possibly been contributing to him feeling like it was too much pressurised, or possibly needy or dramatic energy coming towards him.

    All of this has helped our relationship immensely. The meltdowns are very few these days, and his communication has improved dramatically as he has more self-awareness, as mine has improved. I don’t know whether he will ever ultimately “get there” in terms of the relationship I want, and I have no control over that, but all of this has been so useful for me to learn.

    Good luck to you xx

  324.  #326Victoria on October 22, 2014 at 12:21 am

    Dear LindyInLove,
    I have a friend who has a situation which is similar to yours, except that her husband is not on antidepressants (or at least I do not think he is) but he periodically gets depressed, or angry with her, or shuts her out, and then, if she gives him a lot of space, he would usually go back to normal within a month or so.
    She was feeling exhausted and wanted to initiate a break up with him, I discouraged her at the time because they have two young children, and also because I think she mostly wanted to vent and not truly to break up. I have known her and her husband for a long time, so I also have a very strong suspicion that his bouts of bad mood come as a result of his dissatisfaction with their marriage (she basically pressured him to marry her after she got pregnant). I also think he is seeing other women on the side and he is feeling very conflicted about whether he can stay with her or leave her. But I am her friend, and not his, so I never really told her that I think this is the case… I kind of asked her as a side note what her views on infidelity are and whether she sees it as a deal breaker, and she said no, we have children, we have a life together, I actually mostly want him to feel good and treat me kind, and I would not get into investigations to see what’s going on.
    From your story, what I heard is that he said he does not want you as a life partner any more, but I also hear that he has had similar episodes before and you think this one too shall pass.
    I would like to share with you my feelings on hearing that someone does not see me as his forever woman.
    This is very hurtful, this is rejection, and when I hear it from a man (and it has happened for me!) it makes me feel like a failure (I did not do right by him, I could have been a better partner, why I am not more attractive, or younger, or irresitible!). Also, I regret opeining up the topic, and at times like that, I wish I could turn back time and go back to the blissful ignorance stage…I hate the thought that I have to go back to dating again, I know it is a game of numbers and you need to spend plenty of time on useless dates with boring men, and the man I have right now, even if he is imperfect, and unsure of wherher he wants me, is a wonderful human being in all his imperfections, and I do not want to just next him, I want to find a way to make it work between us, I find it so hard to let go of what he have, even if it is imperfect, because it is ours, it is us, and that is the best what we could do so far.
    I feel like I am mourning the relationship before it has ended, the way you’d mourn a terminally ill relative… It kills me to try to cure it and to be there acting strong for my sick relative, and I vascilate between praying for a quick end so that I can go back to living my life without him, and between praying for a miracle to cure him. I feel torn, and depressed, and I do not like myself because of my inability to be strong, and I am trying to love myself really hard, and I enbrace myself, and I tell myself I am doing great, and I am strong, and I really, really love myself, and then I feel peaceful.

  325.  #327Indigo on October 22, 2014 at 1:26 am


    I found everything you’ve just written to be so interesting, because I’ve felt most of those feelings. I think where I’d differ is that you can still love someone and see all their flaws and good qualities, everything they are and are not capable of. You can see everything absolutely realistically, and yet it does not change how you feel about them, so why fight it? That’s how I think. I put those beautiful feelings in a gorgeous jewelled box and hide it away in my heart and take it with me, and then decide that I will interact with that person on my terms. I don’t have to shut them out if I feel I can’t do that, I can accept who they are and where they’re at and continue living my life. It does require strength, you’re right… but it’s the kind of strength I want for myself.

    I also remind myself that it doesn’t have to be pain, it doesn’t have to rejection. In many ways, those feelings are just perceptions. But yeah… you love yourself extra hard 🙂

  326.  #328Victoria on October 22, 2014 at 1:36 am

    Dear Indigo,
    You are so right. Also, you are as angelic as my real life best friend, I kind of suspected that already :-).
    For me, when I see things absolutely realistically, it does change how I feel about the person. Have you seen Midsummer Nights’s Dream? This is a play where the characters drink a magic potion and fall in love with whomever they see first. Then, when the effect of the potion wears out, they wake up as if from a dream, and they realize, for example, that they have been in love with a donkey!

  327.  #329Indigo on October 22, 2014 at 2:29 am


    You made me blush right down to the tips of my toes 🙂 but also, thank you so much.

    I have seen Midsummer Night’s Dream and it’s an interesting comparison. Yes absolutely, when you see someone for who they really are, it does change how you feel about them. I have experienced that too. But I find that to be a good thing – it enables you to gain the distance you need to put the relationship in perspective, to pull back or to move on with your life. For me though, for some reason, the love never dies.

  328.  #330Victoria on October 22, 2014 at 3:15 am

    You have touched something which is of tremendous importance for me right now. I feel at a crossroad, in a place in my relationship, where I am seeing him so much better (because I leaned back and stopped overfunctioning) and I feel I have the choice now, to contunue to love him, with greater clarity, or to withdraw my love. I feel I am capable of going either way, it makes me feel good, I feel in control of my own life. And I am not in a rush, except that I love the feeling of being in love, I hang on to it, I do not want to deliberately un-love him, I would like some more of that magic potion, please.

  329.  #331Sassy on October 22, 2014 at 3:29 pm


    Two things jumped out at me about your relationship.
    The first pertaining to the issue about you getting a job…
    It appears you are both happy/satisfied with the arrangement as it stands with you not working and him paying for everything and taking care of you in this manner. Perhaps he becomes anxious thinking that if you get a job, you will be financially independent and won’t need him. Most men are hard wired to take care of their family in whatever form it comes in through whatever means that work.
    The other thing that struck me was the comment regarding the holidays, which can be very stressful for even the happiest of people, however, if he has unhappy memories of these periods, that may contribute to his mood changes.
    Also, you noted the difference when the weather changes from sunny summer to rainy, dreary days. That sounds as if he suffers from S.A.D., seasonal affect disorder.
    Here is a little blip from the Mayo Clinic:

    By Mayo Clinic Staff
    Seasonal affective disorder (SAD) is a type of depression that’s related to changes in seasons — SAD begins and ends at about the same times every year. If you’re like most people with SAD, your symptoms start in the fall and continue into the winter months, sapping your energy and making you feel moody. Less often, SAD causes depression in the spring or early summer.

    Treatment for SAD may include light therapy (phototherapy), psychotherapy and medications.

    Don’t brush off that yearly feeling as simply a case of the “winter blues” or a seasonal funk that you have to tough out on your own. Take steps to keep your mood and motivation steady throughout the year.”

    I hope you will see this post, as there are 2 threads up after this one!

  330.  #332Tiffany on October 24, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    You’re articles are amazing! I wish I had known about them a couple of men ago… I’m in this situation/dilemma. I am looking to get your insight as you seem like the master mind behind a woman’s intellect in the dating/relationship arena…. I am dating a guy exclusively for about 7 months now. I have not been dating other men or matter of fact, I had ended dating other man that were not of interest to me any longer. I do meet other man, when they ask if I’m married or single. My response is, I’m seriously dating someone and would like to see how it goes….

    At first when we started dating, I was keeping up with my active life, not calling him, but always found myself too available to him. I thought nothing of it really, that this is who I am; great at managing my time. Every weekend we’re inseparable. It was hard to break us apart. One of those date nights, during our conversation he told me that he was looking for a “wife”. I let him know that I was not looking to be a girlfriend, I want to be married- a wife and have a family. So I thought we were on the same page! Then as the dating began to get further along, He had asked me to move in with him. I told him that we had both agreed to NO shacking! I found myself calling him, my active life began to fall to the wayside, and again I am always too available. He is currently still around, but lately we have not been agreeing and now distance is coming between us. He’s a loyal type of guy and he has told me many times that he LOVES ME, but we’re seeing each other less and less and he calls less and less and so I feel like I have LOST at LOVE once again and I am so confuse. I feel like I have pushed him away, but don’t know how so. It’s has gotten to the point that I have noticed the changes and so I have STOPPED “DOING”. He was ill because of the weather, so I had offered for him to come over, but offered a few times. Now looking back, it sounded like I was begging for his attention. Ugh! Now since I feel like he is/had pulled away; I have started to do the same. It angers me because he has mentioned a couple of times that he has a “Plan” for me and US and that he wants to marry me, he wants a family with me and he wants to make me an “honest woman”. He has even gone to his county to get information on marriage license and etc… I must be missing a couple of pieces of the puzzle somewhere? During another one of our conversations when he decided to call me, I told him that I’m noticing that he’s not calling like he used to, we’re not seeing each other as often as we used to, I feel that there is some distance between us and that I’m feeling uncomfortable and if there is something that I am missing or if there is something that he wants to share that I don’t know. He told me that I’m looking too much into it. He’s just busy! Now I didn’t call him out at that moment, but after that conversation had ended, I started to reflect on when we first started dating. How he was calling me all the time regardless if he was busy or not, he STILL made time to call. Now something has changed. I can’t put a finger on it. Over this last week, I have been feeling like where did we go wrong, does he see what I see, is he going to let this continue to spiral down like this and for how long? I also have been getting calls from a guy I used to date, but it never went anywhere because we were on different pages and he had a gambling problem. However, he is a nice guy to talk to. He tells me all the time how much of a great catch that I am, and if he could do it all over that he would make me his. I chuckle at that. He tells me that he wishes the best for me and that he hopes I find a man that loves me for me and brings me the happiness I deserve. He tells me all about his new relationship and how she kind of reminds him of me. I chuckle at that as well.

    In my hearts of heart, I know there will not be anything for us. It was good to hear from him though especially since I feel like I am being neglected from the man that I love. Then I get a call from an old neighbor, we keep in touch every once in a while. I’ve told him that I’m in a relationship now and he says he hopes he’s the guy for me because I deserve it. I mean if other guys I know see it. What the heck is going wrong with the guy I’m dating now? When he calls now, I act friendly, and if he asks me a question, I ask him. If he goes silent, so do I. then when he wants to get off the phone, I say well it was good hearing from you. The last time we spoke, he asked me why I said that and it sounded so cold. If it had come off that way that was not my intent….

    Oh I forgot to mention that I am currently on his mobile account now. I cancel my own mobile service to be up under his. Now I’m so full of doubt/confusion that I am thinking I need to go back to my own….

    What am I doing wrong? What should I do? How should I handle this situation? I am looking to just leave…

  331.  #333Rori Raye on October 24, 2014 at 9:21 pm

    Tiffany – Welcome! I hear your frustration…please go participate Monday evening in Valarie O’Ryan and Carrie Stanfield’s free teleclass (blog post with info right on the front page here, and again on Monday.), and ask your questions – they’ll help you very specifically right on the spot – and are fantastic coaches (as are ALL my Rori Raye Certified Coaches…) Love, Rori