Do I Just “Go” With Whatever He Says?

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other womenThe Question:

Sophia asks, “If I let go of the boy energy, does that mean I just accept and go with whatever the man I’m with decides?”

My Answer:


Isn’t that amazing?

I just said yes to what seems like a distinctly anti-feminist suggestion. And we all know I’m a staunch feminist.

That’s because “going along” with this answer is not being a doormat.

It’s being a girl.

Notice: The question doesn’t ask “Do I go along with whatever he decides, even if he never asks me what I’d like?”

Because my answer to that might be: “Maybe.”

If you’re talking about where to go for dinner and what kind of car to get, if he’s a man who’s not EVER asking you for your feelings, what you want, and your input, then he’s useless to you, in general, anyway.

In this situation with a man – you feel like “nothing.”

So – MY question would be: What’s the point of even being with him?

There’s a huge difference between being with a man who is NOT in conversation with you, who does NOT care what you want and what you feel – and does not ASK you to TELL him what you want and feel, and being with a man who cares what you feel, yet makes the decisions himself.

There’s a huge difference between being with a man who reacts listlessly when you DO speak up and say what you feel and what you like…and being with a man who actually WANTS to hear what you feel and want, who WANTS to make you happy – yet is willing to step up and make the decisions for the team of the two of you.

One of the big tricks, for me – to Having It All – is two part:

1. You learn to become capable of being the sole decision-maker. In any and all situations.

You can make decisions, and not be thrown off-course when any of those decisions don’t work out the way you initially envisioned. And…

2. You veer towards work situations and love situations in which you work and engage with people who are ALSO capable of making – and willing to make – decisions.

Just because you CAN make decisions doesn’t mean you need to.

When you’re with people to whom you can delegate decision-making, or DEFER to in decision-making: Everything in life gets easier.

You’re able to relinquish control to where you are ALWAYS relinquishing control.

You allow your inner girl energy in inform your decision-making, and to trust both yourself and the people around you.

This way – you learn to make decisions in an organic, “girl” way – and give up the sensation of needing to”control.”

Therefore – the question and answer isn’t about whether or not to allow “any man” to be the decision-maker in all things.

The questions are:

Who is this man… is he a good partner for you?

Can he make decisions?

Can YOU make decisions?

Does he want to GET your input (your feelings and desires) before he makes decisions?

Can you trust yourself enough to choose the people around you so you can give up control and NOT make decisions?

If you can be with a man who fits this “Bill Of Partnerhip” (and be with bosses and co-workers, and hire “team” members for your entrepreneurial business who answer these same questions in a way that feels good to you…)…then, YES! Go along with their decisions!!!

Love, Rori



  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 10:16 am


  2.  #2Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 10:19 am

    hehe 🙂

    I just had to do that to see my own pattern. Nope was my immediate reaction to the topic

  3.  #3Kath on April 20, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Hmm, thanks Rori- once again you seem to be in my head and knowing the challenges I am facing!- My X and I started talking again a month ago and things seemed to be going well. We got on together, we were remembering how we could be good together and there was talk of us getting back together. We both accept that there needs to be significant changes and I gave my speech about my being uncomfortable with him spending time and money on his female friend and thats when he lost it. This was all done by text-he told me she was his “only true friend” and told me he wasn’t giving her up again blah blah blah. It felt awful reading what he said and feeling that I was that unimportant to him. A week of no contact followed our text row and then he got back in touch and asked me to go to see a film with him. This “as good friends” trip is on Wednesday and I just had a feeling that I would hear from him today. I’ve been leaning back- way way back- but sure enough, the text came at 11am saying he’d just found some doors he’d saved from a job he did (he’s a carpenter) and did I want him to put them in the house I move into- he then said he’d do any work I wanted him to do in the house. The last conversation we had about me moving was when I was hoping to buy a house- my plans have been revised since then and I am now moving to another rental for the next year or so whilst I save and get a bigger deposit. I feel as though I am getting mixed messages from him. He has already admitted that he wants his cake and eat it and I have already told him that I don’t want to be a girlfriend. I want a man (him!) to love me for me and accept me for me- and I know that’s exactly what he wants from me- I know I need to be a siren-but I also don’t want to come across as playing games.

    I guess I should wait and see how the conversation goes on Wednesday night-but I feel so triggered emotionally by my feelings for this man-and the fact that I am learning and realising so much and of where we went wrong and how badly I behaved with him because of my inability to speak my truth at the time. I am a good looking, intelligent woman who is very proud of some things in her life but very embarrassed about how I have not coped with the difficulties that came up in my relationship with him. I feel he is giving me the chance to show him once more who I really am, I don’t think we are ready to say its really over. I cry so hard when I’m on my own because of everything I am now seeing-but it is good crying-if that makes sense-I am now opening up to what I should do and how I should deal with things and it feels so good.

  4.  #4Indigo on April 20, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    I find this question so interesting, because, for the first time in years I am working with co-workers I love. Could I trust them with the decision making? Yes I feel I could. It’s such a different feeling to worrying that every decision from your superiors will bring certain disaster. I know that the only people I could really work with are people who I can trust 100% to make decisions, the same with relationships… that’s not to say that I’ll always AGREE with their decisions or that I would have made the same ones, but I feel a basic trust, a solidness. I can get behind them, we can pull as a team. I’ve said it before, but there is nothing worse than feeling like you’re not on the same page with someone with whom you spend a lot of your time – whether it be your man, or your boss, or your roommate.

  5.  #5Mandy on April 20, 2015 at 12:52 pm


    I just want to make sure you know that your email in my inbox had an incredible effect on my day today and how it will turn out. T

    his feels weird to say but I feel like the Universe just ushered your wisdom into my day, very oddly. Just want you to know how shockingly coincidental it was to have received the email as I was crying at my computer, wondering how I’d ever get through my day…and how MUCH the email pertained to me today, and how it saved my day…

    I was just crying…this weekend I casually invited my friends over (who’s friendship I have shared with J happily) for J’s birthday weekend, as I have noticed him just kind of glowing around them and I, I like it, I told him I like it, and so I have them over as much as possible, because he and I need to be social in a safe place.

    Yet, I always end up feeling vulnerable and like he forgets I am his girlfriend, somehow. (I tend to feel left out easily because of my rocky social life as a kid, and being left out of sports and social groups.) I have to forgive myself for feeling that way…but onto my point…

    Well, I received “When You’re Not Getting The Response You Want…Try This” email in my inbox just as I was sobbing, and talking to my mom and feeling helpless.

    Well, I was just speaking with my mom about how I felt like J was treating me like how my dad treats me and my mom, and the way he treats us is by putting us into some kind of submission, like telling us to be quiet, or shut up, or get out of the way, or something quick and forceful (tough military guy, you know – and my mom and I don’t like it when he gets that way with us, not at all.) I moved out of my parent’s house to live with J, because he asked me to come live with him and get out of that nasty environment.

    Well, I feel like I have re-created that environment this past weekend by not going to bed at the same time as J, because of his work schedule. This week was rough – in bed at 8 or 9 pm, and up again at 4:45 am, when we usually stay up until 3 am (insomniac artists), and then working a ten hour shift, in a tiny box of a gas station where there are no customers, on his birthday week.

    When he feels angry, that side comes out of him…the one that feels like my dad. And I don’t realize I’m trying to get love there, possibly by ticking him off, possibly on purpose. The way my dad treats me is familiar, and maybe part of me wants to see him treat me that way because I love my dad dearly even though he has that quirk. Just because…that feels like familiar love. I tried to push his buttons and it worked too well. Jerod doesn’t like feeling left out, so when we both feel left out of each other’s worlds, we both lash out, as we both have similar social pasts. He is just as much influenced by those feelings as I am, and I truly, truly do feel, I of all people should understand it. And I do. I can say I’m sorry, and connect with him on that level…reach out and touch his hand and say I’m sorry that happened.

    That’s what Rori’s email focused on…”When You’re Not Getting The Response You Want…Try This”.
    It focused on delving into exploring the possibility that you could have created your own undesireable situation without knowing it, but forgiving yourself for it, and after I did it, I felt so much better. I was about to hand him a letter before going out to birthday lunch with his parents, which I attempted to turn into a script and say feeling messages and not blaming him, but it seriously still reeked of disgust.

    And in so many words, I seriously felt like you’d reached out and grabbed my hand, I was desperate for something to hold onto, and there it was.

    Very nice work Rori, you saved the day, J’s birthday…I would’ve ruined it, I think….I really think I would’ve gotten angry with him today and said I didn’t care if it was his birthday. Now I can sit with my feelings, be okay with them, and maybe he will ask me what’s up and I won’t be so darn defensive…just soft!

    My shoulders have relaxed, my pulse has dialed back a notch, my skin even feels soft with the air touching it after that. That’s definitely not a coincidence. You didn’t even need to say “Soften your face and shoulders”, it just happened naturally…all the tension left me as I found what was actually going on inside me and understood it..because when I forgive myself, I am hugely able to forgive him.

    THANK you…thank you so very much. I had forgotten myself there, and you helped me remember, on a very important day. I could’ve slipped into the depression and not eaten and not gotten dressed and sulked and beaten my head against the problem all day, but now I can just be…thank you for the reminder, it’s like you read my mind…

  6.  #6Liquid Light on April 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    This seems so radical and mind-blowing to me. Wow! This could be a MAJOR shift!

  7.  #7Waterfall on April 20, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Wow, what a great post…

    Very timely for me and I have given this a lot of thought especially concerning my previous relationship.

    With my ex he would always want to know EVERYTHING that I was feeling and thinking. This felt so empowering and liberating. He really seemed to care and he WANTED to understand. I had NEVER had this from a man before, it was truly the most beautiful thing in the world.

    BUT when it came to planning and decision making I felt like a spare part. It was strange and I HATED it.

    Sometimes I believed he was just a bit clueless, and other times I felt like he was being defiant. It felt like he was saying “Well, I’ve asked you want you want. I’ve shown an interest, but I still know best and we are going to do it my way.”

    This felt very DISEMPOWERING!

    Anyway… I laugh inside because it was like being with two people. This amazingly caring man one minute, and this amazingly insensitive man the next…


    Well, I am just leaning back. Trying to be floaty..

    Re CDing – this is such an interesting topic. I love CDing – but I will admit when I get ultra attached to someone (like my ex) I find it incredibly difficult to CD.

    But I do love it. I love meeting people, I love the idea of getting to know someone, etc… But my CD’s rarely turn into romance, although I do think it’s good practise.

    I realise I seem to have either attraction, or friendship – and not much in-between. Sometimes it all feels like working too hard…

    Anyway, I’ve been having some “me” time. Mainly doing things around the house, using my boy energy. Working, seeing friends, ticking goals off my list. I enjoy that…

    I love to chill. I love to be practical and set myself projects.. I keep thinking about all the wonderful things I would love to do like renovate a camper van, or a coffee shop etc… I love the idea of “making” things..


  8.  #8Waterfall on April 20, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Earlier today I was looking through all of the emails that my ex had sent me. I never do this and I find it kind of strange.

    However, what was strange also, was that at the time the emails had seemed so deep, so emotional, so forceful, so never ending in love.

    But now, what is strange is when I read them I see and feel very little emotion in there. In fact they seem incredibly flat and devoid of any emotion towards me.

    This leaves me feeling completely confused. I almost feel like I have made the whole thing up? Like I have projected all of my own love and emotion onto this man.

    It feels very strange. It’s like looking at old photos and seeing them completely differently and having a coldness spill out from them that you had never seen before..

  9.  #9Waterfall on April 20, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    ..Oh lord! I’m now reading more emails and I can see how leany forwardy I was!! Oh lord.. I can’t really believe how I came across..

    Like “Yes, whatever you say… swoon, swoon, swish, swoon…” No wonder he thought I was pathetic – he didn’t have to do a thing !!

    Gosh, no man is going to find that attractive. I am just cringing when I read my emails. I do not sound like a grown woman at all, I sound like a simpering school-girl with absolutely no mind of her own.

    Lol, I am horrified and can barely read on…

    Eeeek!!! (peaking through hands over eyes…)

  10.  #10Kim on April 20, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    April Rose, from the previous post…what jumps out at me is that you don’t owe a man anything just because you are dating him…I would not be overly concerned with HIS feelings at this point.
    Has he asked for exclusivity? Has he asked for committed relationship?
    What was your answer?
    If he hasn’t, girl, get out there and CD. To me it doesn’t sound like a light hearted fun relationship or dating-ship or whatever….so if you don’t want to say good by to him and want to experiment with keeping him in your life, why no CD…you do not have to rub it in his are just busy some nights…or lunchtimes. No need to overcomplicate.
    if he has asked you for exclusivity and you agreed and you feel ‘trapped’, I would say honesty is the best answer…
    You haven’t been dating him that long, right?
    Don’t tie yourself to a man before he even mentions it, before you really know him (I say that takes at least 6 months)….keep your options open, especially if you’re not sure..nothing wrong with that!

  11.  #11Kim on April 20, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    My man has trouble making decisions and that bugs me..but then, he will always consider me and always ask my opinion first, so I am never just left to ‘go along’ with something without input.
    I notice how this is pushing me into male energy because quite often we will be at a stalemate, I e he asks me what I think and want, and wants me to make a decision even if I already said it would feel better if he decided and I am happy to go along…it’s not easy outgirling him.
    I am tired of making all the decisions in my life…when I have a man in it. I like him to make the decisions and I have no problem accepting them even if they may not be ideal.
    Hopefully we are getting steps…about the move in, I left a whole lot of stuff up to him..even though it was hard as it is my place…I just said I trust him with his decision and I gave him reign over a few things, such as what furniture to keep and how to move it. Turns out he changed his mind to something that suited me so much better than when we argued about it and I wanted to take control….he actually did exactly what I had wanted from the beginning, as soon as I let go, he came to it himself. That was a great moment..I wish I could always let him decide those things that seem tedious for me to discuss, like decisions about furniture, place to live, storage, car stuff etc.
    I am hoping to get to the point where he takes it out of my hand and I can just be, and lean back…lol…and we don’t have to spend days discussing stuff because he wants me to make the decisions. Phew!!!!

  12.  #12Femininewoman on April 20, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    Waterfall your comments made me feel giggly. 🙂
    It is all okay. You were doing the best you knew how at the time.

  13.  #13Emerson on April 20, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    I just had a date with someone from the dating site. Sometimes I feel soo down after I meet someone. It’s so awkward. And hard to gauge. It feels contrived.
    It feels stressful.
    i feel guarded.
    I feel self conscious.
    I feel unsure.
    I feel irritable.
    I feel grouchy.
    I feel soft.
    I feel feminine.
    I feel amused.
    I feel exhausted.

    I wore a cute summer casual dress, I always wear dresses when the weather gets nice. I am annoyed that I can’t read how this guy feels about me.
    I only met him once, for about half an hour.
    He started asking me questions at the get go. I felt awkward and guarded. I think I was fidgeting and stumbling on my words when he asked me where I came from and where I live and yada yada…when we had just met….I didn’t even have a chance to size him up yet.
    Omygosh. It’s so weird.
    I feel overwhelmed and sad. I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t even know how to be on a casual coffee date with a guy.
    I feel hopeless.
    I feel like a failure.
    I feel tearful.
    I look really cute in my dress and I even have cute blush and lipstick on hehe…it’s new and springy. I know I look nice.
    If he doesn’t like me its ok.

  14.  #14Beloved on April 20, 2015 at 8:24 pm

    Wow, it’s trigger city here in my being.
    My mom told me they are getting rid of their cat (who I love) because my dad (who has COPD) is having such a hard time breathing.
    I felt my heart flood open to feeling so much compassion for my mother, who has been with my dad since she was 15, and how I imagine it feels to see someone you’ve loved your whole life deteriorate and become so frail. My grandfather, aunt, and a family friend she dated for a while, while she and my dad were separated, all died from emphysema.
    I feel so much sadness that the kitty will need to be re-homed and I can’t do anything about it.
    I feel so raw and vulnerable and have been bawling at my desk, feeling my heart open to my father and the love pouring through and imagining the grief and sorrow I will feel when he passes.
    Feeling grateful that I’m feeling the love for him now and not after he’s gone.

    I also want to push RoomieJ outside and lock the door or something. OMG. She knocked on my door to tell me she was going to take a shower and do I need anything from the bathroom before she does. Which she has never ever felt the need to before. If she wants to make sure I have no trust with her and will never, ever, EVER cultivate a friendship with her, she is doing a great job.

    And, I feel scared down to my toes about feeling scared I won’t have money for rent for the summer.

    On the other hand, thinking about how scared I feel also reminds me of just how amazingly kind one of the TA’s at school is, and how amazing it feels to feel so respected, valued, and highly thought of by him and to feel as if – I deserve that. It feels real, it feels true, he and I have worked side by side and have interacted all school year and I feel like I’ve earned his respect just naturally, by being myself and doing what I do.

    Which also reminds me…after I talked with him today, I asked another man at school (who is in the same program but different classes) for help with my audio mixes, and it felt really good and nice and easy. He had some great advice for EQing the bass on a track, and also had some good advice for another track that I didn’t take because I wanted to create a different sound.

    Which…is…EXACTLY something I’ve been visualizing for a long time….working on creative projects, with a man, a creative partner…side by side, feeling easy and in harmony, very comfortable. We seem to like each other and I loved not worrying about “where is this going?” because…I don’t know, I guess we were just in the creative flow working together and that felt really good.

  15.  #15Millie on April 20, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    OMG–Ladies…. So I’ve been feeling wishy washy about being back on online dating. Not feeling ready yet after this break up thing. But, I gave my number to one guy so far. He called me and asked how my dating life was. I told him the truth, not the whole story, but the gist. His response was wow what a crock of sh** that guy told you. He used all his “stuff” as an excuse to get out of the relationship. He was emotionally check out already and it tool him a little bit to physically check out which is why it feels sudden to you. It wasn’t sudden with him. The guy said that my guy needed to man up and be honest and direct with me about why he was ending the relationship and that its all about communication and that part of a relationship is being together during the difficult times, not bailing. That my guy just didn’t want it anymore. WOW what a bucket of cold water over my head!! I mean, it hurts to hear that. It hurts that my guy wasn’t being honest with me, but it’s true. If he wanted it, he’d be in it. I think I was afraid of accepting that as the truth and allowed myself to make it all about his other reasons that he was giving me. Maybe he’ll be back, maybe he won’t, but what a breath of fresh air feel. No reason to hesitate online anymore. In fact, I feel more determined and have a date with this guy on wed. Wow…just wow.

  16.  #16IamHis on April 20, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    I feel so triggered, I feel so restless I feel RAGE. I feel so scared I feel sad I feel angry.

    Love and grief never truly go away.

    True pain as old as earth.

  17.  #17IamHis on April 20, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    I think he told her to be nice to me.

    She is so aggressive.

    I feel scared of being perceived as weak.

    I know I’m not, but God that fear.

    That pattern of wanting to shut down and let the rage consume me. I won’t let you hurt me! The anger I feel towards her. Towards so many hers. Lesser hers, suspicious hers, hers that watch me with fear, suspicion, & jealousy.

    Anger at them for leaving me. For not seeing through a woman’s manipulation. I don’t want to manipulate. I want to surrender.

    Oh I feel so sad. Deep welled up grief.

    This feels different and that feels even more scary. Instead of being manipulated, he stood up for me. I can feel how much he wants to protect me, & it feels amazing and completely terrifying.

    His voice gets so soft when he talks to me. I feel so completely open and vulnerable and terrified

  18.  #18Victoria on April 21, 2015 at 12:35 am

    On the topic of “go along with whatever he
    At work, most often it is the other way around, my boss goes with whatever I say. I am hired for my specific skills and decision making capabilities, if he knew well what to do without me in my sphere of expertise, I will simply not have a job in this company.
    In my personal relationships, I try to let go and let the man lead. Not very easy, because I am better at making decisions than most men I know, especially when it comes to money and financial matters, simply because I do this for a living… I often have to bite my tongue not to offer unsolicited advice.
    Anyhow, I am working on cultivating the belief in myself that “he will know what to do”.
    That is, I am trying to look at certain situations from the past where it seemed like he did not, to reframe them and see how things actually turned up for the better. I realize it is actually UP TO ME how I choose to view the end result. I am sitting with this belief “he will know what to do”, drinking tea with it and I am offering it small sandwiches with cucumber, trying to make it feel at home :-).

  19.  #19Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 12:49 am

    Victoria…. #18
    Ahhhh… I’m smiling!! ;0>

    “I realize it is actually UP TO ME how I choose to view the end result. I am sitting with this belief “he will know what to do”, drinking tea with it and I am offering it small sandwiches with cucumber, trying to make it feel at home :-).”
    I feel soo warm and relaxed when i think of me NOT
    taking control… of realizing HE does know what to do…
    Which is SOOO much easier than ALWAYS doing,
    giving unsolicited information
    and generally taking control…

    one of leigha lakes blog posts is:
    STOP making everything soooo difficult…
    it doesn’t have to be…
    each time your about to do something, think…
    what is the easiest way to do this??
    I have tried this all day today…
    i’m liking how it feels!!

  20.  #20Victoria on April 21, 2015 at 1:09 am

    I love this “what is the easiest way to do this”.
    Usually I think, what is the fastest way to do this, and the fastest way is usually me to take control and organize everything. So I will give it a try today to just choose the easiest way :-).

    Has Spirit come back?

  21.  #21Kim on April 21, 2015 at 3:00 am

    Victoria…are you German?
    I have to ask, because when I read your posts something sounds ‘home’ to me and a comment you made on the other see myself in most things you say. Maybe just coincidence. I was born in Germany, but moved away when young and have been all over the world, well worked abroad since…
    Azure how are things with you?
    My guy is moving in Friday.
    I have all kinds of feelings…woke up at 5am this morning.
    Mostly they are good.
    A little nervous.
    I do wonder if the shine will come off the relationship. He has been late more than usual…more late than usual (more extreme time-wise) and forgetting stuff…I worry that we might live beside each other without gain of intimacy etc. I worry that it might feel boring…
    We shall see.
    It’s all a journey.

  22.  #22Victoria on April 21, 2015 at 3:21 am

    I am not German, but I remember that you are, hence the literacy rate in Germany that I was quoting :-).
    Otherwise, I also see a lot of me in you, but I also see parts of me in many other girls here, it seems our collective experience is very similar, and we are all just talking to ourselves in many ways here.

    do not worry about the shine in the relationship. If you want to get married, you can’t circumvent the living together part. You will have to get through the adaptation phase like a child goes through measles, knowing it will all be well and for the better.

  23.  #23Kim on April 21, 2015 at 3:32 am

    Ah ok, my curiosity is now almost satisfied Victoria, and yes, we all came here for similar reasons…and all having more or less similar experiences…you just sound very spunky. Lol.

    This is true about the living part…it’s throwing all kinds of questions up for me, that are mostly about me. He seems very happy….I kinda liked my single life and being able to do what I want…haha. I wish we had more space so I could retreat into a quiet zone,because I need a lot of silence and he watches a lot of TV and stuff, this is a little scary for me….we also have different bedtimes, so not sure how this will play out in a studio. We shall see..
    I’ve been single for almost 10 years, and I am still not in relationship mode, I almost agreed to go fishing with another man on the day he is supposed to move in…oh my…lol.
    How tactless of me.

  24.  #24Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 5:34 am

    Kim 23,

    This may be somewhat obvious, but have you tried telling him about your sensitivities and preferences? I think most times men just don’t realise. I only had to ask D to turn the TV down once, and mention to him that I battled to sleep with lights on in the house, and now he turns the TV off or down and switches the lights off of his own accord. I’m sure your man would want to make you happy in this way.

  25.  #25IamHis on April 21, 2015 at 5:44 am

    It’s hard for me not to get hung up on one guy when I find someone that I perceive to have “rare qualities” or someone who gives me a delicious feeling of surrendered, protected, he’s in charge, he’s giving to me without wanting to take girliness.

    There are always other guys around. Good guys. Sweet guys. I just read an article by Evan Marc what’s his name where a female emailed him…and I could just tell by his response that the email majorly triggered him. His response was sort of a rant, while I think if the response had been given from a less triggered place on his part, his response could have been very simple.

    The woman was putting too much focus on the man, was losing herself, losing her boundaries, thereby killing the attraction.

    Every man is going to have strengths and weaknesses, just like every woman is going to have strengths and weaknesses. No one is perfect, and we don’t fall in love with perfect people anyway.

    I personally fall in love with a man’s vulnerability. Seeing what he truly cares about in the world and what he does in it to make it better. I fall for him seeing him loving the aspects of me I love in myself. I am trying to think of anyone in my past who loved aspects of me that I had difficulty loving. Even if it was someone I wasn’t all that into. This is a difficult but fascinating reflection for me…

  26.  #26IamHis on April 21, 2015 at 5:51 am

    The thing is, you could CD all your life, and I think Rori would agree that yes! You should.

    But I think only in the sense that you stay open and vulnerable and appreciative of all the wonderfulness within the world and within yourself. When I truly respect a man, which I feel icky admitting, yes, is rare, the last thing I want to do is create some kind of insecurity in him

    I want to reassure him, strengthen him, & help him to see he is the capable manly beast that I already see, even if he has trouble seeing it himself.

  27.  #27Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Emerson 13,

    Instead of wondering whether they like you, how about just assuming they do?

    Of course you look good so why not match those good looks with a warm smile, an open, relaxed, confident demeanour and the full force of your feminine charm?

    Aim to be warm and relaxed and good company, and the rest is up to him, so why worry about it anyway?

    If you go into it believing that a man would be crazy not to adore you, I assure you your chances of getting second, third, fourth dates and so on will skyrocket.

  28.  #28Victoria on April 21, 2015 at 6:26 am

    How’s your toothache? Fully recovered?

  29.  #29Kim on April 21, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Indigo, yes absolutely. I guess I want him to feel at home here too, so I feel hesitant to ask him to curtail his lifestyle so much. He definitely wants to make me happy, but I have noticed a little resistance lately as well….not sure why, maybe that’s why I feel a bit odd. For example, he does put his phone on vibrate, but he constantly gets bombarded with texts and notifications from one thing or another, all through the night…and I can still hear the buzz of the vibrate!
    This is a bone of contention because he doesn’t understand why this bothers me (it is so quiet), but it irritates the sh*t out of me. Especially at night. It doesn’t bother me as much on the weekends, but now 24/7…yes, I will have to mention a few things.
    Frankly, I am less worried about him moving in than I am about all the TV and phone and whatever other noise that is entering my apartment lol…there you go, we talked about this before!
    I have very acute hearing…and when something irritates me, afterr a while I just want to kill…lol

  30.  #30Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 6:30 am

    Iamhis – “rare qualities”

    This strikes me as scarcity mindset a belief that cold actually hold you back from seeing the myriad of great men out there. I encourage you to challenge that thinking.

  31.  #31Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 6:32 am

    Hi Victoria,
    Thank you so much for asking sweet siren.

    My gums are achey and sore from the wound where they pulled out the wisdom tooth and bit of bone, but I am recovering and it gets marginally less sore every day. Just an eensy bit achey but otherwise fine 🙂

  32.  #32Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 6:35 am

    Millie that guy kinda sounds like EMK. Just goes to show how men think.

  33.  #33Starla on April 21, 2015 at 6:48 am

    It feels so relieving to be with a man i trust completely to lead and make decisions. He lets me push back and get my way if i try, but i dont really even need to. I trust him to make good decisions and i trust him to take my opinions seriously too.

  34.  #34Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 7:00 am

    Some tidbits from EMK

    “My client, Laura, was getting over a breakup, when I gave her this same advice.

    Instead of getting caught up in the emotional turmoil of getting invested in strangers who are 99% likely to disappoint you, how about you approach dating the way most men do:
    • Go out to bars and parties.
    • Get online.
    • Flirt with a bunch of people.
    • See who responds.
    • Go on a bunch of dates.
    • Hook up a little bit with the ones you like.
    • See who follows through.
    • Don’t get attached to the outcome; no man is real until he’s your boyfriend.

    I dated this way for 10 years – and while I sometimes got frustrated, I also managed to have a lot of fun along the way. I got better at dating. I learned about myself. I learned to appreciate qualities like kindness and sanity and got over my blind attraction to women who were simply beautiful and brilliant.

    All of that dating like a man is what led me to choose my wife.

    I’d had enough experience to know what was important to me, and to be able to value it enough to not let it go.

    I recommended the same thing to Laura.

    You’re not going on a husband hunt.

    You’re going out for drinks with a cute guy.

    You’ll see if you have fun and if you want to kiss him at the end of the night.

    Whatever happens, happens.”

  35.  #35Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Good morning Sirens,
    Mmmmm well leaning back from Spirit… focusing on ME and MY life
    Trying to take care of all the many things I like to neglect while loving on ME
    Last week, I had shared with Spirit, I was feeling like I was chasing him, I was feeling disconnected, did he have a solution for us being more connected? and Maybe I had missunderstood what he had in mind when we got back together
    last Thur. i had called him (because he asked me to)
    about our tentative date on Sat.
    he ended up out of town…

    In my mind I was NOT going to contact him anymore unless he contacted me first…
    I had made myself sick with leaning forward (actually NOT that much but at least once a week!!)
    He has been soooooo withdrawn for weeks…
    although he did meet my family – :-))
    I wasn’t sure if he was just going to let us Fizzle
    I was panicky
    but reminded myself this is in my power
    I set up this experiment to see if Spirit/Me
    can do MORE connection and emotional intimacy
    Cause after all *HE* is my mirror…
    I am a commitment phobe too!! (trying to change)

    REading lots of Leigha Lakes blog posts…
    Evan M emails
    Focusing on ME!!! Loving on ME
    Mind you tears and fear inbetween!!
    REalizing I will need to let HIM go
    if he doesn’t step up…
    my experiment ends May 5…

    He texted me last night.. around 10:00 pm
    after our cities baseball game…
    We won… We both love watching baseball!!
    He said: “picture of the mascot ____’s Win!!”
    a couple of short comments about the game

    I didn’t see it untill around 2:00 am
    I had my phone in my purse and didn’t hear
    the text come in…

    He IS leaning forward…. YAY
    I will text him back today…

    What do you Sirens think…
    “Good morning Spirit
    “I always feel happy seeing your text on my phone! 😉
    Great game last night! Yes… 11-2… we’re at the top of the league!!”

  36.  #36Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 7:37 am

    Azure is it really true?

    Are you sure you want to focus on the game as opposed to sharing missing hearing his voice?

  37.  #37Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 7:49 am

    I thought we were supposed to
    mirror the amount of text and the subject…
    Starting with “I feel so happy when I see your texts…”

    I’ve been the one pushing for more contact… I need him to row the boat now…
    I don’t feel easy saying anything more.. feels too pushy!!!??

  38.  #38Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Ahhh… but i see what you are saying…
    It is ALL in MY head!!! except the feeling message
    How about…
    Ohhh… Spirit I feel happy seeing your text on my phone!
    “I feel sooo excited watching the power of the T’s and how they flow together as a team”

  39.  #39Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 8:07 am

    Azure Blu :/

    I kinda agree with Feminine Woman… I would NOT be excited about a text from a man who has been withdrawing about the baseball game. I don’t think I would gush that I was happy to get his text. I would stay leaned back, to me this is the kind of text that does not necessarily even warrant a response…

    But that is just me…

    Love to you

  40.  #40Kim on April 21, 2015 at 8:09 am

    Azure, I would feel like you, but I think fW has a good point, which is: is this a relationship and a type of contact that feels good to you? No matter what we are supposed to say or supposed to do? I would feel so disappointed at this point :/

    I don’t know if I could authentically express feeling happy about such a text after a long period of no or minimal contact…when he has asked for exclusive relationship. I would feel like he was tossing me a crumb and might not answer the text at all and wait till he calls me..although, again we are all different and I don’t know if that would be a healthier way…no idea. I am impressed that you can handle it in this way…

    Honestly, I can see why you don’t want to raise the topic of wanting to hear more from him, with him anymore…..I couldn’t either.

    It’s a tough situation…I feel for you…

  41.  #41Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 8:09 am

    Ohhh… Spirit I feel happy seeing your text on my phone!
    “I feel sooo excited watching the power of the T’s and how they flow together as a team”

    I like this and for me I get that you are hinting he should follow suit so you two flow as a team also. Just that I am thinking he won’t get the hint.

  42.  #42Kim on April 21, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Indigo, we wrote the same thing, pretty much..

  43.  #43Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:16 am

    LOL… I did NOT mean that as a double entedre!!

    Wow… I’m glad you pointed this out…
    I don’t want to look like i;m hinting At all!!!
    I’ll change it to…
    “I feel excited watching the power of the T’s beating the NYY!!”

  44.  #44Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Kim 29,

    I so understand you. I am very sensitive to noise, especially vibrations. I can hear things acutely that other people seem quite able to tune out.

    Not to do with your situation at all, but incidentally it is one of the major reasons I chose D. He is highly sensitive as well, and even if not sensitive in all the same ways as me he understands mine keenly and this whole aspect of life. It helps a lot. I don’t feel like an alien with him.

  45.  #45Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 8:18 am

    Kim – I was feeling and thinking nearly exactly what you just said.

    Azure – The gushing over a text makes me wonder if you are more worried about what he thinks and pleasing him than is this working for you and making you happy.
    And – I do see that you are reminding yourself it is a short-term experiment!

  46.  #46Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 8:18 am

    S texted me last night. He asked “what’s for dinner?” and I was like uh….Idk yet, probably something easy because its almost 6 and I haven’t taken any meat out to thaw. He said he was just messing with me. So I told him I had sold an item by myself, similar to what he does with his side business. He acted super proud of me, then called on the phone.

    On the phone he congratulated me and said he was impressed that I had taken the initiative to do it myself. I said I didn’t want to be dependent on you and I needed the money.

    Then he started telling me how he had ended things with that woman. He said they went on 3 dates and never had sex. According to him, she just wasn’t physically attractive enough for him and he feels like he can do better. He said he felt really bad “for about 12 hours” and that the woman blocked him after he tried to nicely let her down. He admitted that part of her appeal was her “success” in life, but he said he hadn’t really even wanted to sleep with her and she commented that he didn’t try.

    He claimed he is having a “dry spell” sexually. I said there are plenty of options out there for you and mentioned this sex club he has been to with a married woman he was sleeping with before. He said well yeah, I could do that but I haven’t felt like it.

    Then he asked me to come help him with some work related stuff. He said he won’t try anything on me or riff me about my “boyfriend”. He kept half of the promise, lol. He didn’t touch me but he kept making comments about the guy that flew me to Chicago. I can tell it bugs the heck out of him. He asked if the guy has a lot of money, and made some comments about how the guy was flying me places and having sex with me, stuff like that.

    I’m okay with seeing him right now since he isn’t pursuing any particular woman. Honestly, I would have loved to have slept with him so I’m glad he didn’t try because I think I would have jumped at the chance. As it was, I was able to lean back a little more.

    He kept sneaking glances at me though. He’s told me before, when we weren’t having sex, that he just likes having me there working because “I just like watching you, you are so pretty”. Every time I looked up, he was watching me. For a big part of the evening he was sitting on the couch watching a show, where I was in his direct line of vision (in front of the tv). He would ask me silly questions too, like about what would be in my refrigerator if he were to look in it right now.

    He had a test to take for the insurance company he works for and he needed someone to sign in as the proctor. It asked what my relationship to him was and he wanted to know what my answer was to that question. I said I put “friend” and he asked what the other choices were and was scrolling through to see if there was anything else. He was making jokes about the possible answer “subordinate” all night. At one point I was doing something and he said I was the expert on that particular item and I said that could make him my “subordinate” and I could tell he didn’t like that joke at all, haha. I was just playing though. This is exactly why I know he wouldn’t like a woman to be more successful than him though, that ego. He’s very, very sensitive underneath it all. 😉

    I felt good about seeing him. He sent me home with some more work to do and paid me via paypal for that this morning. I’m not sure what will come out of it all but I am relieved he isn’t seeing someone else.

  47.  #47Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Thanks Kim and Indigo and FeminineW
    Thank you Sooo much for your thoughtful Siren
    Mmmm… All the Rori coaches and Rori say
    when he comes forward… No matter how lame…
    respond to his leaning forward!

    to me it does feel good that he is initiating… which is a response to what I had asked for
    to me it seems like my text has NOT agenda (which i dont’)… I’m simply mirroring his contact… with feeling messages…

    I’m letting go of control… I know he can figure this out… or not… either way I will see if he can do relationship

    Most of the time his texts are VERY romantic and yummy!!!

  48.  #48Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 8:39 am

    lovergirl – it sounds to me like S doesn’t want to be all the way in with you, and yet doesn’t want to let you go.

    I do wonder, if this works for you because maybe you aren’t so gung ho on really having a man in your life who wants to be and is taking action toward being involved with your children.

    I do feel, that this not-quite-in/not-quite-out dynamic is going to cause you much, much more pain than you are avoiding feeling by getting all the way out with this guy and getting on with your life.

    And – as always, for whatever reason, (this is what I tell my best friend frequently!)- I feel the need to say what I say, and respect and appreciate that you are you and are going to do and be your in all your beautiful humanness regardless of what I think and feel. 😀

  49.  #49IamHis on April 21, 2015 at 8:40 am

    @30 -FW – Oh my word, yes! It is definitely scarcity thinking. I have this belief that I have to have a man that all the women want. It’s a huge ego thing for me, perhaps stemming from my desperate desire for my father’s attention…who is an amazing, wonderful, but also pulled in a million different directions to help and lead a ton of people kind of man.

    Do I really want a man like that? Or would it be better to have someone who leads on a smaller scale, but has more time, attention, & energy to give to that smaller scale…ie: his wife and family.

    This feels really scary to consider. Maybe I don’t want that much attention on me because I feel afraid of being known in all my brilliance AND ugliness. The parts of myself that I would rather hide.

    There are plenty of other men, but I feel so drawn to the glow of height, power, prestige, desire.

    I know for a fact that there are Witter men.

    I have better intellectual connections.

    The thing is…for intimacy to really take place…can you really have it all? Can “it all” really be found in one relationship, one career, heck, one life?

    Insatiable desires for something I don’t have words for…

    What feels best?

    I feel scared and frustrated and angry that I feel like I can’t have it all. Intimacy with more than one man.

    Freedom, but security and feeling like I belong to someone too…

  50.  #50Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:41 am

    Indigo #31
    I’m so glad you are on the mind!!!
    And also your new job sounds AWESOME!!!

  51.  #51IamHis on April 21, 2015 at 8:43 am

    *wittier men.

    There’s always going to be someone better in some way than the man I choose & the same goes for me.

    Love involves decision acceptance appreciation curiosity gratitude surprise

  52.  #52Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:44 am

    mend NOT mind!! :0|

  53.  #53Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 8:44 am

    I like what Rori said that one doesn’t want a man, one wants a relationship.

    That’s my conundrum I guess. The man I would like (if he were someone else) is incapable of having a relationship. However, we have touched each other very deeply none the less. I got all my requests since last September met in last weekends recital. It was so beautiful. Everyone cheered.

    Afterward I did not approach him to say thanks. I will content myself with a very short note today when I go over for a meeting. I am learning that he will acquiese if he takes the complete lead if I couch it in a feeling message worded very indirectly. (He apparently is very good and figuring this type of thing out.)

    Meanwhile the cding goes on.

    Azure Blu I’m following your story and wishing you luck. I wish I had a crystal ball and knew the answer for you but it wouldn’t be as much fun as if you figured it out though!!

    Victoria, I like your insights and your taking your concepts to tea and sitting with them. I’m having to completely change my attitudes here. I’m finding out when I do that they do sometimes work out very well, surprise, surprise. More tea?

  54.  #54Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 8:51 am

    Iamhis believe it or not you words seem so juicy to me. Really great processing and awareness building.

  55.  #55Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:54 am

    Kim #11, 23 & 29
    Wow… lovely Siren,
    You are shining and bright as you work through
    ALLL the complexities of moving in together…
    10 years living alone…
    yes, this will be an adjustment that i know you will be able to navigate soooo well because of the Delicious Goddess that you are

    to me one of the MANY good things might be knowing MoM for 2 years… not as many things to adjust to..
    I like how you are looking at how YOU are with all of this and giving yourself lots of LOVE and care and SPACE as you find the need…
    Thank you for sharing this EXCITING journey with us here on Siren Island

  56.  #56Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Beloved (48)-

    It’s true, I’m NOT very comfortable with the idea of some man being a stepfather to my kids. I have sincere doubts that there are decent men out there who would want that too. What man in his right mind would seek to marry a woman with 5 children from a previous marriage? It would be very hard for me to trust a man who wasn’t at least leery of that in the beginning.

    I want to hope that it would be possible for a man to fall in love with me and THEN come to that decision, but if he was too quick to jump at the chance, I’d fear he was a child molester or something else was seriously wrong with him. I just have a hard time believing that decent men would be out looking for a relationship where they had to take on 5 of another man’s children. My own stepfathers were horrible so I want to be very, very careful too.

    So its very hard for me to feel comfortable dating anyone who pretends to be okay with it at the beginning. S, at least, is HONEST. He’s the one and only man I’ve ever met that I have never caught in a lie. For that alone, I can give him respect.

    I just feel like, getting rid of S might be a very BAD idea. He is the best man I have ever met and I worry that I would be subjecting myself to worse people to throw him away. I’d rather have a FWB thing with him than a “relationship” with someone dishonest.

    Heck, the Chicago guy has already proven himself dishonest. It didn’t take long. I’m still seeing him but I don’t have real respect for him because of that.

  57.  #57Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Beloved & MisTea
    Thank you!! huggs!

  58.  #58Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:02 am

    “I’m still seeing him but I don’t have real respect for him because of that.”

    Oh my. I wonder why not just try to practice being honest.

  59.  #59Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 9:04 am

    Iamhis 49,
    As usual you are very insightful. I feel glad you have put the ego issue, and attention from father issues together. That is what I am trying to be mindful of and have worked on the father abandonment issue a lot since last September. I check out my progress when MusicTd does something that might trigger me and if it no longer does then I am good to go.

    I’m questioning the ‘famous issue’. So far my only consolation is that for the first 2 months or so I did not realize he was ‘famous’. By then I was hooked. i don’t care if he is famous or not I am deeply into his music. I hope my ego is not misleading me on this.

  60.  #60Millie on April 21, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Who is EMK?

  61.  #61Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:07 am

    Femininewoman (57)-

    You mean be honest that I found a bra lying on his bedroom floor? Lol I guess I don’t want to have drama over it. I would feel the need to end things and right now I’m at least enjoying some perks. I don’t imagine it will last too long though.

  62.  #62Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Indigo/Kim – amazing how we came to the same conclusion. I initially wanted to suggest that the text did not warrant a response but I thought I might come across too harsh saying that.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Evan Marc Katz

  64.  #64Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:14 am

    Be honest about not respecting him. Unfortunately the comment about “perks” suggest to me that you could raise the level of respect for yourself and that you are just using him to help you in some way. If you are honest with him and he keeps offering the perks then you get to feel your power and raise your level of difficulty and self esteem. Shoving things like that under the rug just feels icky. Seems you are consciously choosing to be second best or willing to allow a man to use you.

    Hopefully some others of the women will chime in. Maybe I am off base.

  65.  #65Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:20 am

    Femininewoman 63-

    I guess I don’t see the point in telling a man “I don’t respect you” unless I am saying it as I walk out the door for good. I guess I AM using him at this point. At first I thought I would give him a chance but after that it was like yeah, nevermind, I can’t trust him anyway. He’s clearly using me too, its mutual. He’s pretending to want a relationship but that’s not his actual intent.

  66.  #66Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Okay. But can you see from this dynamic how we attract people into our lives based on the same level we are at? Which is the reason if we really want different we have to change. Also you can switch it on and off depending on the person you are with or wanting. Though you might be thinking he is someone different he is actually S in a different “outfit”. And both might even be your ex in a different way. So again this all comes back to you and what is happening on your inside why you would invite men into your life to use you/beat you up.

  67.  #67Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:38 am


    You “can’t” switch it on and off

  68.  #68Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 9:41 am

    49 IamHis — I LOVE THIS COMMENT!!! How open you are to FW’s wise words, the processing that came from it. It feels invigorating to me…your path of considering where your dating motivations comes from feels so right. I was going to comment on your #26 as well to say it sounds like you are pedestaling that hypothetical man in that comment…remember he should be putting YOU up on the pedestal and cherishing you, not the other way around.

    Dating a man because he has prestige and success isn’t all that different from a man dating a model because she’s pretty and thin. Sure it gives you a tiny ego boost to show them off…but is that really happiness? A healthy relationship? Not to me. You can absolutely find a man who has those traits, but I’d recommend concentrating on finding a man who makes YOU feel good first and then look for that complete package. You absolutely can have it all. 🙂

  69.  #69Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:41 am

    “I feel doubtful that we will be a good match for the long run. I need to really be able to respect a man when I am in a relationship and right now I feel unsure/hesitant I can respect you at that level”

  70.  #70Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 9:44 am

    53 Mistea1 — I feel a little afraid reading your most recent comments. I know that you recognize the chemical/hormonal addiction to MusicTD that you’re working to break…but am I wrong to think you’re slipping a bit backwards? I guess really what I should ask is, is everything OK Siren? I don’t want to jump to an incorrect conclusion, this is just what’s coming to me when I read your words.

    Because to me it sounds like MusicTD is going back up on the pedestal. And he doesn’t belong there. I wonder if you’re somehow making yourself smaller right now…perhaps feeling unsuccessful or unwanted somewhere in your life? Based on what you’ve said about MusicTD here…he does not seem like a man you should be wasting any time thinking about, let alone making him more of a man than he truly is.

  71.  #71Femininewoman on April 21, 2015 at 9:44 am

    I’d never recommend saying to anyone “I don’t respect you”.

  72.  #72Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 9:49 am

    64 Lovergirl + 70 Femininewoman — Yes, I agree with Femininewoman, I would never straight out say “I don’t respect you” to a man, because Lovergirl as you said that’s a total relationship-killer.

    I know that finding a bra on his floor LOOKS awful but in truth we have no idea where it came from. Does he live in a multi-unit building? Whenever I do my laundry (we have a shared laundry room for the whole building) I often come back and find people’s random socks, boxers, shirts mixed in with my stuff.

    What if you dropped the idea that it’s from a hookup with some other woman and just ask him? “There’s something I’ve been feeling really uncomfortable about, and I don’t like feeling this way. Could you help me understand why I found a bra on the floor the other day? My mind is jumping to the worst possible scenarios and I need some help figuring out how it got here…”

    It’s about not stuffing that discomfort. You have every right to feel uncomfortable!!!

  73.  #73Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 9:53 am

    If you don’t feel comfortable talking about it Lovergirl, a feeling which I understand, the issue is that you’re not being fully self-expressive. There’s a difference between choosing your battles and stuffing something you feel down…I used to do the latter all the time and in fact just got an email newsletter from Rori about it this morning. 🙂

    It’s HARD to self-express when a difficult issue comes up and that’s also the moment when being self-expressive is MOST important. This is a fabulous teaching situation for you because Chicago Guy doesn’t mean much to you…you have a brilliant opportunity hear to practice speaking what you feel and what’s worrying you in a feminine way, and allowing him to open up in return. Because if you stuff these things down, you’ll both feel it, you’ll both feel uncomfortable with each other, and that’s the beginning of the end of ANY relationship.

  74.  #74Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 9:56 am

    47 Azure Blu — I am SO GLAD you asked this question because I have the same one!! I have also read lots of blog posts, newsletters, etc. that say that whenever a man comes forward we should respond positively, even if the reach out is something as simple as “Hey.” But if a man is pulling back/away, and doesn’t continue the conversation beyond whatever our response to “Hey” is…how the heck are we supposed to get to the part where we use our feeling message to express what’s bothering us?

    I’d love to hear a coach’s feedback on this. 🙂

  75.  #75Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Labbit #71&72
    Ohhh… Yes…
    I am getting better EVERYDAY but
    used to be the queen of stuffing my feelings
    and then watched them explode in a
    Very inappropriate way later…
    and then having to do damage control!! Blaachhhhh!!
    Rori and all the Sirens here have taught me sooo much…
    I So agree…
    Lovegirl this is the PERFECT guy to practice saying the beautiful Feeling Message Labbit crafted!!
    I have done this Practice and
    MY self esteem AND Trusting of ME just GROWS and GROWS

  76.  #76Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 10:36 am

    Labbit #73
    Yes… OVER and OVER Rori and the coaches say…
    when HE comes forward respond with a positive feeling message…
    AND then also say
    how confused and disconnected you feel.
    He might say: “Why”
    and then you can go on from there…

    HOWEVER… *I* have already shared with Spirit
    “feeling disconnected and confused about so little contact lately
    and knowing he is good at coming up with solutions
    can he come up with a solution that would feel good for both of us?”
    and now he has initiated contact!!!
    Sooo I will continue leaning back… and let him row the boat… if he wants to…
    Rori and coaches all say… NO need to say this anymore… Darling Spirit knows how to make this work…
    OR NOT… I will let go and believe he will do what is best…

  77.  #77Kim on April 21, 2015 at 10:37 am

    73 labbit…I guess we can only have a conversation with someone who is in front of us, and wants to be there, and wants to make us happy….otherwise it is a monologue.
    Rattling off our feelings or displeasure to someone who isn’t half bothered to make dates, or have telephone conversations…what is the point?
    I think it’s pretty self explanatory.
    If someone doesn’t make regular contact, or doesn’t want a conversation or a date with me, why would I even feel the need to tell him anything?
    Fact is, he is not in front of me.
    Guys like that get dropped with CDing, we only cling to them and having to make them aware of how we feel if we get stuck on them….
    Azure, your case is obviously different and honestly, I feel baffled by a man asking for exclusivity and then kinda dropping off….a little or a lot…it just feels so odd to me….I have had it a million times that guys drop off and just send the odd text or make the odd date, but those were NEVER the ones asking for a relationship..I can only imagine how odd it must feel to you.
    I would not know how to handle this, I probably wouldn’t even have the patience to stick to a timeline….I know you really like this guy but blech.
    I say it. I have to say it. YOU DESERVE BETTER
    There, I said it :/

  78.  #78Kim on April 21, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Further, if we are not in a relationship with a man, and he doesn’t respond to us anymore, I really don’t think there is anything to do but to drop it…completely…until he shows up again… humble view.

  79.  #79Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 10:50 am

    75 Kim — This is great. Thank you! Funny how I slipped backwards in my mind there, trying to think of ways to get a man who is pulling back re-interested in the relationship instead of, to your point, realizing that wouldn’t be my role anyway. I guess old habits really do die hard.

    I am thinking a lot about these kind of questions again as they apply to my sis who’s out there dating big-time. She’ll ask me things and usually I can give an answer that feels good, but she’ll sometimes stump me.

  80.  #80Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 10:53 am

    I feel shakey trembly and fullchesthardtobreathe right now.
    I was coming up the stairs, and could hear RoomieJ talking to a friend on the phone about what a b*tch I am and how I’m trying to protect myself and she isn’t going to let me and she is going to be all in my face all the time.
    I said through the door – “I can hear you. That’s the manipulativeness and passive aggressiveness I was talking about (in our text exchange)”.
    She said “whatever”.
    I went to my room, because as soon as I said something, my throat felt closed up, I felt so shakey and trembly, it felt hard to breathe and speak.
    I can still hear her through the wall, and am practicing feeling myself in my body down to my toes, staying with myself through all of this, noticing how safe I am, looking around, imagining the a laugh rolling through my belly. Imagining a script to TG in my mind.

    I don’t want to live with someone who is intentionally antagonizing me. I don’t feel I can afford to move right now, nor do I want to. I don’t know what to do here, what do you think?

  81.  #81Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

    Ahhhh… I feel soo much kindness and support coming from your beautiful siren melody!!

    Yes… I am thinking the same thing…
    He is tossing me crumbs… it feels bad…
    But I am learning Tons for ME…
    and practicing being an invitation
    and willing to let him go if that is what
    I see must happen…
    Practicing feeling messages, asking for what I want
    (getting ME closer to my Mr. Right)

    and Honestly, it feels like he is doing
    EVERYTHING he can to get me to
    break up with him…
    This is the worst withdrawal I have ever
    experienced with him!!
    And NOW I KNOW…

    Kim you are sooo right
    after being pursued heavily for 4 months
    Him asking for an exclusive relationship
    and NOW this!!!
    Sooo confusing
    But other Sirens warned me
    he might just do this big time withdrawal
    that’s fine
    But I want a loving , connected, committed relationship…
    so we are on different bridges, horses…
    sooo sad… I would love to be surprised!!

  82.  #82Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

    I don’t want to be baited.

  83.  #83Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 10:55 am

    Leigha Lake says:
    “When a man leans forward and comes close after he’s pulled away – we’re usually so angry we lash out at him.  Who does he think he is anyway?!
    Then he backs away and we feel the empty space again and start feeling anxious, scared and needy and it becomes a vicious roller coaster.  Can you relate?
    We’re going to get off this roller coaster once and for all and undo the damage.
    Step 1.  When your man comes close again – check in with your feelings.  How are you feeling?  Usually you feel happy hearing from him!!  Yay – he’s calling!!  And/or you’re also feeling angry or sad even.
    Step 2.  You want to be an invitation (soft, warm and open) so he feels safe coming closer.  You become the invitation by expressing how you feel without blaming him or making him wrong.
    Step 3.  He’s calling, you pick up the phone and say, “Hi.”  He asks how you’re doing and you say – “Hi baby, I feel really happy hearing from you (and if you can stop there, that’s what I recommend).  I tell all of my clients I want them to focus on building good moments first.
    Or – “I always love hearing from you and I’ve been feeling angry and sad and it feels a little confusing.  I don’t want to feel that way.”
    There are so many variations you can say to a man – and what matters is – what you’re saying feels authentic to YOU.
    A man can sense when we’re being congruent.  He can feel when our outsides aren’t matching up with our insides – you want to be authentic.
    This creates safety for a man! “

  84.  #84Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 10:56 am

    I don’t want to feel like I’m being baited into a hostile confrontation.
    That’s what I’m imagining – she’s trying to get me to be a familiar role.
    I sink love into my belly.

  85.  #85Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 11:04 am

    I am soooo sorry to hear what a willful, spoiled Brat RoomieJ IS!!!

    as you know… lovely, beautiful, smart Goddess…
    this has NOTHING to do with YOU…
    She does this to everyone!!

    you are sooo Brave to give this little of your attention and loveliness…
    I am glad you are sharing on Siren Island
    so you can feel supported and cheered On!!

  86.  #86Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 11:10 am

    FeminineW #68
    I do love this:
    “I feel doubtful that we will be a good match for the long run.
    I need to really be able to respect a man when I am in a relationship
    and right now I feel unsure/hesitant I can respect you at that level”

  87.  #87Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 11:14 am

    Labbit & Azure,

    I’ve also seen all the coaches say to respond warmly when a man initiates, but I honestly don’t take it to mean literally to gush about it because for me that would be putting more energy forward than he is putting. For me, it’s all about the energy I feel from a man. Not all text messages are created equal. A text that expresses care or concern or asks me how I am or in some other way is reaching for me and I can feel it, yes that I will certainly respond with a smile and charm and a feeling message. But something which doesn’t really even require a response, like him making an observation or telling me about something which is impersonal… I feel I can choose whether I want to respond or not, but I don’t take this as really coming forward. I try to go with how the message makes me feel, rather than any hard and fast “rules”.

    That’s just my take, and it’s worked for me.

  88.  #88Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Indigo #84
    You are very right…
    probably should have let it go…
    ohh. well… he is making it VERY easy to walk away

  89.  #89Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Labbit 69,

    Oh dear, you sound just like my daughter who lambasted me thoroughly last night when I told her what I had done. So thank you for the corroboration. You are way more sensitive about this than she was by the way. 🙂

    I thought I was trying to find out if the chemical reaction had died down, but maybe I was wishfull thinking.

    (the excuses part)
    That was the first time I had gone to a recital of his in 4 months. I didn’t know he was going to do all my requests at once. I did not approach him before or after his performance. I’ll put a short note in his box today because of the difficult Bach piece I requested specially. I don’t plan on making any more requests either.

    When I got home after the recital I did not have a surge of feelings or chemicals. So I am pleased with that.

    I know he is a narcissist through and through and I realize I was probably targeted as his victim from the get go. This is probably his attempt to reel me back in. I’m hoping to keep physical contact close to nil. I already told him I didn’t want a relationship with him as of December 2014.

    Pedastal? Yes, most likely. Can I do that if I don’t want to have a relationship with him? He’s on a list of the top 25 organists in the world. His music penetrates right through the intellect and goes straight to the emotional center. People stop in their tracks after church if he begins playing again. He can elicit any emotion he wants with his playing, even very unchurch like ones.

    Labbit, thanks again for your helpful comments.

  90.  #90Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 11:50 am

    I still feel shakey and trembling…(probably adrenalin dump on top of too much caffeine).
    I talked to TG, I told him I felt LOATHE to bring him into this, and tried to handle it on my own, I couldn’t so here’s the deal.
    He talked to her, told me that he told her to just give me space.
    I HATE this because it feels so childish, and I HATE that she wouldn’t just give me space because I asked for it, but probably will now that TG is in it.
    I hate that this is a drama triangle.
    Like, I needed TG to “rescue” me.

    I don’t know what else I could have done.

    Feminine Woman – you usually have a lot of clarity around these dynamics – what do you think?

  91.  #91April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Azure Blu,

    I am reading a book by John Gray called ‘Venus and Mars on a Date’, in which he describes the 5 stages of relationship.

    1. Attraction
    2. Uncertainty
    3. Exclusivity
    4. Intimacy
    5. Marriage

    I recommend it. I have just started reading it and John Gray’s ideas about the stages of relationship I find fascinating.
    He says that people can go back and forth between stages, or miss one or two out, for example.

    Sounds like your Spirit suggested stage 3, but something then launched him back into stage 2.

    Hmmm. I wonder what John Gray would suggest about this.

    He is one of the coaches/experts who says to respond happily to a man coming towards us even if he’s been withdrawing for a while.
    He says it is because in stage 2 time goes by slowly for a woman, but very quickly for a man.
    When we answer happily with no trace of resentment, and no mention of the relationship, he feels he has the chance to come back towards us again romantically.

    That is the theory anyways….

  92.  #92Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 11:57 am

    TG also told me…that he couldn’t really do anything without proof… and also said he’s been having problems with her since day 1.
    None of us have leases or any specific written agreements other than the rate of our rent.
    Which leaves me….???
    Feeling like throwing my hands up in the air…
    Big, deep sigh.
    idk wtf
    I am willing to release from my consciousness the pattern that created this situation.
    So. So. Willing.

  93.  #93Kim on April 21, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Azure you’ve got this….I am just sorry because he was so promising…and I know you like him and he has so many positive qualities…
    For what it’s worth in the end the positive quality that matters most is a man who is in front of us, if not all, than at least most of the time…and while obviously there is no point responding negatively or harshly to a man making contact with us (is there ever?), because he only does what he wants to to and he is entitled to do what he wants to do….I would probably gently drop off when meaningless text message replace meaningful conversation and intimacy.
    I am with Indigo there…I do not interpret the fact that the coaches say to respond warmly, that we have to gush over a little text message crumb as if a man has just re-hung the moon for us.
    If he has, however, just re-hung the moon for us, I am gushing too. 🙂
    Believe me, my guy is far from perfect, as am I. The other day I was so pissed because he left me wait for an hour because he could not finish a simple phone call (no boundaries reading the ugly head again), instead of making it short, it was a chit-chat call which he said he didn’t even want to have….he let me wait over an hour. He sent me a message AFTER the time we were supposed to meet so that i could not even do anything else!
    I was not happy. When he eventually turned up, I was pleasant but I told him that it feels bad to be put on a backburner like that when we had agreed a time and place, and that next time, I am not waiting anymore.
    Whoa, he was very apologetic, he was mortified and immediately said he was being horrible to me and so on, and that it won’t happen again…
    I don’t know if it will but I do know that he wants to make me happy and wants to work on himself to achieve that, and that’s more than most men I have dated in the last 8 years or so. Nobody has to be perfect, but they have to be willing and able to so relationship and willing and able to learn, and want to make their woman happy.
    That’s the bottom line. Without that, forget it.

  94.  #94Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    84 Indigo — Yes, this makes sense to me. It still leaves me with the question though…in the scenario where you’re, let’s say, exclusive but not married to your man. He’s been withdrawing and you’re not ready to give up on the relationship yet. He reaches out — says Hi. Now in this scenario my gut says the woman goes first, opens up and makes herself vulnerable. You don’t yet know if he’s coming forward simply to check in and see if you’re still ‘there’, or if he’s reaching out to try to repair things. You want to rebuild that safety between you, but you also know how angry you’re gonna feel if he says “Hi” and nothing more…

    In that case, I’d feel weird about blowing him off, not responding. Matching his energy level works…up to a point. I guess it still may all go back to what Kim said, about how it just becomes a monologue at some point.

  95.  #95Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    April Rose #88
    Wow… very interesting..thank you…
    I want to read that book!

  96.  #96Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    86 Mistea1 — I’m training for a big race coming up in about 8 weeks, and one of the things I’m doing is ‘leaning out’ my body. Trying to reduce my body fat as much as possible. Normally I eat a healthy diet anyway, but I kept a few treats around…chocolate chips (I dip banana slices with peanut better into melted choco chips, then freeze them for a sweet treat) and french fries, because I’m addicted to eating fries with my burgers. Oh and soda, I’m really quite addicted to having a glass of soda each day.

    Since I’m trying to lean out right now, I’m not buying any treats. I don’t want the temptation of having them around.

    Get my drift? 😉 If you want to break an addiction, you can’t be around the stuff you’re addicted to. There’s no need to keep exposing yourself to the thing you’re addicted to, to see if you’ve beaten the addiction yet. Just stay away from it until you forget about it altogether…maybe a year or two from now you go back to see if you feel anything. But til then…best to avoid what ills you.

  97.  #97Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    Labbit #91
    and also Vulnerability is what I struggle with
    I want to practice being vulnerable with someone
    I have big feelings for…

    this is how having my timeline with Spirit keeps me hanging in and practicing,
    experimenting with what *I* need and want .

    with this much intimacy
    This is when I start acting like I don’t like him…
    and he gets VERY confused…

    Rori and Dominique has said sometimes we will need to “go First”… I notice when I am soft and vulnerable, apologize (if that is what is needed), share my scared feelings…
    any man always just gets all juicy and responds more softly!!!

  98.  #98Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    You are such a Siren,,,,
    you are Soo good at sharing your feelings with MoM…
    and he responds Like MR. Right!!
    I am sooo happy for you!!!

  99.  #99Waterfall on April 21, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    ((((( Beloved 78 ))))))

  100.  #100Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    91 Azure — Yes perhaps it’s that going first that I’m wondering about. Though I don’t know WHY I’m suddenly so hung up on teasing out this scenario in my head, since everything with TenderCD is great — though I miss him terribly while he’s away on business — and I certainly don’t want to manifest any trouble in our relationship!!

  101.  #101Waterfall on April 21, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Oooo, I feel all cringey at my desperation! hehe 🙂
    BUT D was so mysterious, aloof, calm and collected…

    Me, I was all blustery and easily flustered…
    Eager to please, wore my heart on my sleeve.

    I have learnt that I have a long way to go.
    I over shared with D and that’s what drew him to me.
    But then I felt uncomfortable…

    Trapped? Scared? Unable to lead the relationship…

    I didn’t want to row the boat. He didn’t row me in a direction that I wanted to go..

    I wanted to get out and go my own way.
    I am baby stepping…

    Wow. What a journey though. Full of colour. Surreal & hilariously funny at times..

  102.  #102Beloved on April 21, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    So, I want to love myself for wanting to protect myself, and feel good that I asked for help.
    I feel good that, even though this felt childish and immature, I totally love myself and acknowledge that this is DIFFERENT from when I was younger because I did not escalate to getting sucked in to a tit for tat, although I did feel some urges to pick back at her, I sank into feeling them and breathed through them and shifted to my metta practice.

    I wish I had listened more carefully to Labbits advice…and, the moment has passed.
    Truth is, I believe I was mistaken, and that it was me. Turns out it wasn’t, not in that way, anyway.

  103.  #103Kim on April 21, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    95 Azure you are so lovely, thanks for the praise, mostly undeserved…I am still extremely good at the whole ‘bottling up and then exploding’ routine. Not good!
    Oh well.
    He loves me anyway…but I am not proud of those parts, then again I love him also even though his tardiness and slowless drives me mad sometimes….all give and take I guess.

  104.  #104Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Labbit #97
    I feel curious…
    Do you feel weak (too vulnerable to feel safe?) when you initiate connection when Tender is away?

  105.  #105Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    101 Azure Blu — Yes, I feel very weak when I initiate while Tender’s away. Unfortunately I set a pattern with him early on (pre-exclusivity) where every time I initiated it was because something was wrong, i.e. I was worried because it felt like it had been too long since I heard from him, or we had a date scheduled that night and I was sick of waiting to hear where/when, and so on. Tender already had a tendency to assume that if he wasn’t leading communication it’s because there was a problem to solve and he needs to jump in immediately to fix it. We’re very much well-matched in this funny way, him always ready to solve whatever problem I may have made up in my overactive imagination.

    So now when I text him while he’s away, his response is nearly always something along the lines of ‘What’s wrong?’ or ‘Is everything OK?’ LOL. While I know I can always reach out to him if I want to, I feel like a distraction, and I don’t want him to be concerned on a business trip, you know?

    We’ve talked about it a lot, I’ve made great strides in my personal confidence to where I don’t get nearly as panicky as I used to…though I still have my moments. 😉 And he is trying to be more cognizant of NOT jumping to the conclusion that if I do initiate, it’s because something’s wrong. Last week when I was feeling off because I hadn’t heard from him, when he did reach out on Monday eve I felt very confident in myself speaking up about wanting to hear from him more, and he heard me and has called every other day since. And he hasn’t made it feel like a chore he’s doing because I asked, which is great.

    Still, I find there are sometimes little things I’d like to share with him (photos, funny moments that happened to me, etc.) that if he were home and with me I’d mention, but because he’s away I tend to let them slide through my own consciousness…so yes, I do feel vulnerable and unsure about exactly what my place is when Tender is away.

  106.  #106Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    ahhh lovely Siren…
    I do understand about feeling “vulnerable and unsure about exactly what my place is when Tender is away.”
    Can you figure out what that might be about?
    When any man of mine has been out of town… I have noticed I do feel that way too…
    They seem a little distant and preoccupied… wonder if that is a reflection of my feeling uptight and totally disconnected when they are away?!!
    Although a couple of my cds have been Very good at making me feel so at ease about calling and talking when they are away…

  107.  #107Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Another part of it is that Tender HATES traveling for work. He’s mentioned to me several times that it’s his least favorite part of his job and if he could say no without getting fired or seriously demoted he would.

    He’ll future talk sometimes when we’re chatting in the evening while he’s away…I don’t want to reveal too much personal stuff but he’ll say things like ‘the last thing I’d want to do is go away for two weeks while you are pregnant with our child’ and things like that, playing out the future in his head and sharing it with me. Even now I know he’s very annoyed to be so far away while our apartment is being rebuilt. He wants to be hands-on with that and it just isn’t possible right now. There’s a frustration level that seeps through into our every interaction, and while I know he’s not frustrated at ME, it still feels hard sometimes. He feels like he’s letting me down being away and I don’t always know what to say to that…he’s not letting me down.

  108.  #108Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    are you doing a marathon?

  109.  #109April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 2:17 pm


    Thank you for your response. I needed to be reminded that I don’t owe a man anything. I feel lighter when I remember that. And more in the moment and carefree.

    You’re right. We haven’t been dating very long. Just two months. I like what you said about not tying yourself to a man prematurely.

    It’s just that bit more awkward in the UK to get the understanding between people. Even dating two men at once is called ‘two-timing’ and is considered cheating!

  110.  #110April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 2:22 pm


    Thank you for your comment to me on the last thread. It’s really helpful.

    “What you want to convey is that you’re not pressuring him, and you’re not asking him for commitment at this time. What you want is simply to keep yourself open to other men while you two are getting to know each other.”

    Yes, that’s it. I somehow want to convey that I’m not pressuring him for a relationship. I had six years with someone, that ended last summer, and I want some fun for a while before I consider becoming exclusive again.

    Although, in this country no-one talks about exclusivity!

  111.  #111Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    April Rose…
    It is a concept not many people understand in the USA either… my girlfriend just talked to me about being disrespectful with Spirit when I was cding and seeing him also… :-/

  112.  #112Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    105 Azure — I’m doing a triathlon. Tender’s doing it too. 🙂

    107 April Rose — I’m still a bit confused. Has he asked for exclusivity with you?

    If not, there’s nothing to talk about. You’re free to date to your heart’s content! Don’t feel like you have to announce to him that you don’t want exclusivity yet if he hasn’t brought it up.

  113.  #113April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 2:31 pm


    Men don’t bring it up. Nor women. People in this country tend to all be serial monogamists.
    They assume exclusivity after just a few dates!
    That is why a conversation is required, I think, to break the assumption.

  114.  #114April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    And how does it work for men?

    If he is supposed to only pursue one woman at a time, how is he supposed to get to know enough women to discover his match?

  115.  #115April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    Sorry Labbit, I meant to say that no, he hasn’t asked. But then, he wouldn’t.
    He did ask “Are you my girlfriend?” early on, to which I replied that I was his date.

  116.  #116Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    103 — Oops, missed this one! No, I don’t think it’s necessarily a mirror if a man feels distracted while he’s away. I think it’s more because like Dominique talks about men have their boxes, and when they’re on a business trip I think relationship for the most part goes into its box. It doesn’t mean he cares any less…he’s just not focused on it the way he would be if he were here. Rori also spoke about this, can’t remember if it was a post or email newsletter, where one time her husband went away for a week and she was missing him a lot…he didn’t call once while he was away and when he got back he didn’t act like he’d missed her at all! LOL, I can so relate to this.

    I think this is just one of those basic male-female differences. Our focus is on keeping the connection alive and thriving, but to them the connection is going to be right there when they get home so they feel safe to leave it be for awhile. And then they wonder why we get upset, haha.

  117.  #117Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    April Rose,

    This is the fun and tricky part. 🙂 Before you are exclusive, and especially early on, it’s safest to assume that he’s going out on other dates. He might not be but for your own mindset it’s healthier to pretend/assume that he is. And like you say, you WANT him to do this. Because you want him to experience as many other women as he needs to so that he can be sure that you’re the one if he picks you. You don’t want to be with a guy who rushes into commitment, and then wonders if he moved too fast, and so on down that slippery slope. Nope, DO NOT WANT.

    It’s not that he’s supposed to only pursue one woman at a time. It’s that he’s only allowed to COMMIT to one woman at a time. And you get to pick what levels commitment are, because to him everything up until marriage is all “not committed,” while you may have mini-levels in there.

    So for example in my case sexual exclusivity is a big one. TenderCD and I had two chats about this because at one point when he wasn’t stepping up to claim me I downgraded him from exclusive back to dating. Basically what I said is that ‘I feel great around you, I’m having so much fun with you, and it seems like we’re heading towards being intimate, and I WANT THAT. As much as I want to rock your socks off all night though, I don’t sleep with a man unless we are sexually exclusive, only sleeping with each other. This isn’t about commitment or trying to move things forward…it’s about feeling good so we can enjoy sex and much as possible. Until then, there are plenty of ways we can get to know each other better. 😉 ‘

    You’d want to come up with a speech for any scenario like that. I brought up sexual exclusivity BEFORE we even got back to his place, it was while we were still out on the date making out. It would be a tough conversation to have at his place or mine while we’re ripping each other’s clothes off I think.

    I think the “Are you my girlfriend?” was just kind of testing the waters, I doubt he took that seriously. If you are his girlfriend YOU WILL KNOW. He will make it very clear that he is claiming you, and you get to negotiate the terms of what that means.

  118.  #118Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    I missed your 104
    Ahhh.. 2 weeks apart is a long time!!
    I can see why you are missing… but really way to long to have NO communication…

    Ohhh… NICE! a Tryathelon and you and Tender are doing it!!! how cool! bike swimming and running?

  119.  #119Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    Also April Rose, if he’s really into, he’ll naturally stop seeing other people. This is what happened for me and Tender. Pursuing other women was quickly not interesting to him — he only wanted to pursue me. As he naturally moved towards wanting to commit to me he started asking me out more often until pretty soon we were spending nearly all our free time together. I know that he was dating at least one other woman when we first met, and he quickly dropped them out of the picture. Guys who want a relationship aren’t going to go on dates with multiple women, they’ll tell you that dating one is exhausting enough!!! 🙂

  120.  #120Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    Labbit 93,

    Oh, you are so right! I had to go on an errand and as I was driving I realized I am triggered. It’s not as bad as it was before. I’ve never been addicted to drugs but this seems like what I’ve heard described for cocaine.

    I have a meeting tonight there and an activity on the 28th of April. I will see if i can get out of the 28th one. I will miss hearing the music so much. I went last month and only listened and did not see him and that seemed ok.

    Thanks for catching this. I never want to go through something like that again.
    Much appreciation.

  121.  #121Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Labbit #116
    Spirit said the same thing to me>>>!!

  122.  #122Labbit on April 21, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    Yes Azure lol I think we were typing our comments at the same time earlier. Yep swimming, biking, then running to finish it up. Tender’s run marathons before and I’ve done half-marathons, so we feel pretty ready. It’s a sprint triathlon which means the distances of each leg are not as long as they’d be in an Olympic or Ironman triathlon. Tender eventually wants to do the Ironman in Hawaii, but I have ZERO interest in anything but cheering him on from the sidelines for that.

    Two weeks is a long time. I doubt Tender would have gone that long without talking to me at all, but if I hadn’t spoke up I am sure I only would have heard from him once or twice his entire trip, which isn’t enough for me. He’s calling more to please me and believe me I will reciprocate big-time once he comes home.

  123.  #123Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    {{{{MisTea}}}} #117
    Ahhh… lovely, Brave Siren!!
    I think it is a Good decision to continue to say away taking Loving, warm care of YOU…

    I had decided, if I have to let Spirit go, I’m NOT going to the places where he dances until next year!
    I know how it would make me feel to see him there dancing away with other women…
    Of course it would be sad to let that part of my life go for a little awhile
    BUT I don’t want to make this any worse by rubbing My own nose in it!!! so to speak!! :-))

  124.  #124Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Labbit 119,

    Great on the Triathlon and your preparation for it. I am thinking that I would be helped by being occupied is a similar way. You said I might be feeling less than.

    I remember thinking here I am giving him all kinds of kudos for playing and he is getting a boost from me which really ups his expression. And he is making money from this too.
    Meanwhile I’ve let my writing project be completely derailed because of my addiction and I’m not making any money or doing my own thing. Believe me this is not lost on me!

    Even if I can’t play nearly as well as he I can still play with expression.

  125.  #125Kim on April 21, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    April Rose, I lived in the UK nearly 2 decades…while you are right, nobody mentions the word ‘exclusivity’ , in fact nowhere in europe really, you are nobody’s gf until he has dropped a few hints conveying this to you….same difference.
    I remember people dating and not being in a relationship, or guys asking me literrally ‘are we a couple now’, or calling me girlfriend early on, so to let me know things are monogamous…so basically, unless your guy hinted at you, well, I wouldn’t worry.
    My guy here in the US never really asked for exclusivity, but he did ask me to be his gf…after over one year. Lol. So of course until then I CD’s wildly, and even after, because we couldn’t agree on the terms…lol…until he asked me not to date other men.
    Men are not dumb.
    They play dumb, or they are clueless sometimes, but believe me, they know that unless terms are agreed on and things are spoken about and I may even go as far as to say the ring has been bought, we might just be free..

  126.  #126Andrea on April 21, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Hi Sirens. !! Hello Siren Island. : )
    New Siren Song: Falling in love with me.

    I am keeping up with everyone’s stories. I come onto Siren Island at my bed time. I sit with my phone and scroll through the blog until I feel asleep. Hah!

    I want to pop in and give an update.
    As for my career: I’m about to graduate college. May 7th. I’m very happy about that.
    I’m done at the hotel I was working at. My last day was April 9th.
    I am full time in school and full time at my new job as a practice representative for a health and wellness clinic. I’ve spent hours organizing my office, been to one event, and am getting to know everyone at the office and learning all of the presentations and the equipment.
    I’m loving it. Loving It!! Loving It!!

    I get to work for a doctor and wife duo whom I admire. I get to have a life and business coach and go to inspirational seminars with her. My partner is a married younger man who is very respectful of me and open with me about his life, wife, children.. etc…
    Our communication is great.

    I’m going through a phase of ending the old life and moving into the new life. My daughters and I are moving into a house that is in a great location in our city’s downtown area. I feel happy with the landlord, the rend, the location.

    I just…. I just never believed that I could attain this level of happiness, independence, security, and joy… on my own. I never believed in myself as much as I do right now.

    I feel so strong, so purposeful, so free. I have enough money to attend my little sisters wedding in another city, book the hotel, make it to all the events, get my daughter’s and I new dresses, get my hair and nails done, not have that worry in the back of my mind about money.

    I feel so excited to be an example to my daughters of a successful, independent woman who is actually … well… happy. Happy. And secure. I feel safe. I feel trusting of myself and my decisions. I feel… I just can’t believe it’s all worked out. I feel a stepping into myself that I have never felt before.

    Here’s an example: Before I left my job at the hotel, I mentioned here on Siren Island that we were host to a large group of indoor football players. This is our city’s second year having a football team and many of them stay at our hotel. All the women in my city get excited about the sexy young men who come here and stay until July.

    Well, I mentioned that one of them was flirting pretty heavily with me. He: 27. Me: 41.
    He is sooooo sexy, sooooo charming.

    And I was so kind of heartbroken upon finding out the RRguy was married. (Still no contact AT ALL or energy toward him since February 15th)

    One night at the hotel, Football Guy’s flirtations were just so obvious. I let him kiss me. Then another night, he came home with me. Then on Easter, he and his football friends came to my house for dinner and we had so much fun.. and he stayed the night with me. Then he started texting me, calling me during the afternoons when he got done with his work out, or team meetings.

    I would not classify it as a “relationship” but I would have said.. FB.. ??

    Anyway, my working at the hotel made it very convenient for him to have access to me. As soon as I started at my new job and became less available to him, he called more, texted more… but

    we never see each other physically. I realized… I was the one who had been doing all the driving.

    Last week, he called me at midnight. I ignored. The next night, he called me at around nine. He wanted me to come and pick him up so he could spend the night again. He asks. He is kind of shy about it. He wants me, he says, but he doesn’t have transportation.

    I will not do that. I do understand that he is with out a car. He’s staying at the hotel. But there are other ways for him to get to me. I refused.

    I told him that if he makes it over to my place, I would love to see him, but I will not come get him.

    He whined, texted me more, called me. Finally I told him it was enough. If he wants to come see me… come see me. He can find a way. If not, no big deal, I’m going to sleep.

    I haven’t heard from him since. hah.

    Why I smile about is: I think about him every once in a while, but I’m not stressing about it. He was/is such a wonderful exercise for me in not taking this thing too seriously.

    I love this lesson. The one with RRguy really hurt. But I’m so LOVING myself that I found out for sure that I will never EVER knowingly put myself in a situation where I’m “dating” a married man. I love it that I can trust myself for sure to know that. I won’t pine after a married man, I won’t “wait” for a married man.. etc.. I’m so SO much better than that.

    It was good for me to see that.

    I also feel good to know about myself that I won’t chase… even a sexy, young, sexual, fun, STUD!! That he wanted ME, more than I wanted him makes me feel kind of healed inside.

    I can, now, trust myself to attract into my life the type of men who lead the way. I like this alot. And I’m in no hurry. And I’m not desperate for it.

    Man, I have learned alot this past year. I’m so excited to go into this new phase of life where I’m actually committing to a community, to a career, to a home, to …. well to my REAL self.

    Graduation feels so very good. Hah! At Any Age! : )

  127.  #127April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 4:29 pm


    He has told me he wouldn’t dream of dating two women at the same time.

    I feel really awkward reading your comment 114. I don’t know if you realise how lucky you are in that it seems so straightforward to you – the ‘dating culture’, I mean.

    I wrote a few weeks ago saying “Oh no, another man I like, wanting an instant relationship”. I have never known anything else. Men I have had relationships with have fallen for me fast, pursued me exclusively and claimed me without so much as a word.

    I want to feel more empowered this time.

    I totally get the sexual exclusivity thing. That is another thing that’s taken for granted. In fact it may just be me, not the culture I live in. I seem to attract men who want to throw in their lot with me right from the beginning.

    I’m starting to wonder what it would feel like for a man’s feelings to grow towards me more slowly.

    And, I wonder why I attract such ‘fast’-feeling men!!

  128.  #128Kim on April 21, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    April Rose, I wouldn’t worry too know, I attracted instant relationship men, and then I attracted the polar opposite, like the guy right now who needed over a year to step up….it can also just be coincidence of the men you are meeting…not necessarily something you are attracting as a mirror…I don’t really believe in that so much as the men I have attracted over the years have really been so wildly different…some introduced by friends, some from the dating website…and there are many instant relationship men around, I found especially recently divorced me. Who are just trying to fill a void. Meh.
    I avoid them like the plague, because I have felt so easily replaceable like anyone would do, a warm body….and their choices after me have shown it, too….the sweet smell of desperation. Now I have the opposite, a man who is actually fundamentally quite happy alone, just like me…and we are edging ourselves towards relationship-move in-marriage one millimetre at a time LOL. Help!

  129.  #129Kim on April 21, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    Healthy men can fall fast too…I have seen this…

  130.  #130April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Thank you Kim,
    I feel soothed.
    Sometimes I wonder if I am a little clueless…!

    I want to become educated. A mega dating spree should help me find out what’s what!

  131.  #131April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 5:22 pm


    So lovely to hear from you.
    And such wonderful progress.
    You inspire me.

  132.  #132April Rose on April 21, 2015 at 5:29 pm


    I re-read your comment 114, and it was a completely different experience second time round.

    I have been able to narrow down the part that triggered me, and I think it is this
    ” You don’t want to be with a guy who rushes into commitment, and then wonders if he moved too fast, and so on down that slippery slope. Nope, DO NOT WANT.”

    I will rephrase it so it fits me
    “I don’t want to be with a guy who rushes ME into commitment, and then I wonder if I really explored all my options before I gave them all up. Nope, do not want.”
    I know that nobody else can rush ME. I will stay true to my own pace and honour my true feelings and give myself the best chance of success in my next relationship.

  133.  #133Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Andrea 123,

    Yes, I knew you could do it. Yea for you.

  134.  #134Zia on April 21, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    Today I feel shaky and emotional and teary. Not because anything bad has happened, just because that’s how I feel. I feel judged, and I feel worried. All of a sudden it feels like maybe I’m a bad person or wrong for being the way I am, and for changing the way I have.

  135.  #135Mistea1 on April 21, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    Azure blu, 120,

    Oh, yes, I hear you loud and clear. I went to the meeting and just being in the building was difficult for me. he wasn’t even there.

  136.  #136Millie on April 21, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Hi Andrea!!!!! So great to read your update!!! Yay you!! I’m so happy for you and the new happiness you have given yourself! Xoxo

  137.  #137Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Femininewoman and Labbit-

    About the bra on the floor thing, maybe I will say something. Not sure yet. I’m more disgusted than anything. It’s just like ugh, another man is trying to play me for a fool. He has his own washer and dryer in his townhome, so its not like he could have picked it up in the laundry, and it was on the floor right next to his bed.

    In my experience, confronting men about stuff like that just encourages them to make up unlikely stories, but you never know, he might just fess up. I don’t really want to have to tell him if I sleep with another guy either, like he was suggesting, so part of me thinks just keep quiet.

    He’s continued to take me on lots of fun dates, but the sex is bad. I just don’t feel any chemistry with him and he doesn’t read my body language well.

    For example, he’ll be like lunging at my boobs with his tongue flickering and I’m putting my hand out to stop him (because I have sensitive n*pples and just wasn’t in the mood for that). He’ll stop, but then go right back to it. So I actually put my hands over them and the minute I move them he tries again. Its very aggravating. Then, afterwards he makes some comment about how I am not as kinky as he is. Its nothing to do with level of kinkiness, I just wasn’t feeling having my boobs attacked. I said I was just feeling “sensitive” so then he tries the same thing the next time. Ugh. I’m honestly surprised someone that clumsy in bed is sleeping around. :p

  138.  #138Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    As far as him being another version of S- I don’t know, lol. I can’t find many similarities there, but my ex husband had similar bedroom habits. Bleah…

  139.  #139Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    Congratulations on your graduation, new job, new home and New LIFE!!!
    You sound fantastic!
    love this new Siren song you are singing!!

  140.  #140Azure Blu on April 21, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    Mmmm… what do you mean by
    ” All of a sudden it feels like maybe I’m a bad person or wrong for being the way I am, and for changing the way I have.”

  141.  #141Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    Labbit 91,

    Yes absolutely, I agree with you. If a man I cared for reached out and said hi, I would absolutely say hi back. Depending on the circumstances, I might then also say more – as you say, the woman going first – because he has made the first move and reached out.

    I think it’s all really more art than science, and yes absolutely you’re looking for reciprocal energy… if it becomes a monologue then there is obviously no point.

  142.  #142Indigo on April 21, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    April 110,

    It’s the same in this country! If you’ve gone on a few dates, and especially if you’ve kissed or done anything physical, it is assumed that you are exclusive. It’s nice in a way because men do tend to be of the very faithful, gentlemanly type, but it also makes it trickier to have that conversation when you’re trying to negotiate for a different scenario…

  143.  #143Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Labbit 72-

    Good point. I need to work on this. Thanks.

  144.  #144Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    On how to respond if a guy tests something like “hey”-

    I tend to be like “hey!!” or “hey :)” or “hey handsome!”
    Depending on how I feel about him, I want to show some degree of enthusiasm. Plus men just don’t get complimented much on their looks so they eat it up when you casually call them handsome. 😉

  145.  #145Lovergirl on April 21, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Just thinking about all these things that annoy me about the Chicago guy that are kind of lessons in how I don’t want to be with men.

    Like, he will say he is going to be in Chicago at a certain time but then claim that he decided to come back early so he can be around me more. He will tell me he cancelled this or that plan to be with me, and I really just feel suffocated by it all. I want some space. I don’t want him cancelling all his plans to be around me. Its sooo needy.

    The other day he wanted me to come over to his house and just hang out. We weren’t going to do anything and had nothing planned but he had a couple of hours free because his daughter was at a movie with her aunt. I was on my period so we wouldn’t be having sex, but he said we could just “cuddle”. I just cringed at the thought of driving there just to “cuddle” him. :p

    It just makes me think about all the pressure we can put on men when we are too available for them, too quick to cancel plans, too ready to see them at the drop of a hat. It reminds me of so many mistakes I have made myself in the past. Now I’m getting to see how annoying it is. ;P

  146.  #146Victoria on April 22, 2015 at 12:06 am

    Lovergirl 142,
    You are so right in pointing it out.
    I really like these glimpses of truth we see when we turn the situation around.
    Also, think about that: you saw a bra in his bedroom, and it was a major turn-off, but you never mentioned anything (this has not even triggered you in a major way, just another turn-off factor). So, if we flip it around, men probably notice things about us, accidentally, that turn them off, but they don’t bring it up, for one reason or another.
    Also, I am wondering, is there anything that Chicago guy can do to be more attractive to you? One things is, he would be better off if he was carefully paying attention to your signals, and would take no for an answer when you tell him and show him you do not want to be touched a certain way. I guess it goes both ways, when we are very insistent with men, I do not pay attention to what turns them on/off, attraction just fades away…

  147.  #147Millie on April 22, 2015 at 1:21 am

    I feel exhausted….. I have been up and down fighting with myself, sifting through the past with a fine tooth comb, talking to my friends and anyone who asks about what happened with this man. I have read all the articles on withdrawal, I have cried, I have laughed, I have kept it together, I have let myself fall apart, I ordered new books, I signed up online again, I talked to a new guy, agreed to go on a date. I’m leaving the country on Saturday, I’ve taken up a new title at work, I interviewed for another company and need to do a project for them which I’ve been procrastinating and putting all this other “stuff” first. I’ve overloaded myself so much… To feel and to not feel… To make myself push through this…. But the truth is… I’m exhausted. I need to give myself the gift of quiet, of being, of no wheels turning. No more talking, no more thinking, no more doing. I think for the next few days I’m going to retreat from my phone and all online stimulation. I didn’t realize it until now, that I just need quiet. To feel the space and nothingness… And not keep feeding myself so much information that’s making me confused. So many opinions, so many voices, I don’t even want to hear my own right now…. Sifting through and telling me what I should have said or should have done. I’m so tired. I just need to focus on the most important thing in front of me and let everything else go. Sighhhhh

  148.  #148Victoria on April 22, 2015 at 1:59 am

    I feel for you, and I wish I could take away your pain.
    But listen to this, in my life experience, I have gone way out of my confort zone to pursue educational and professional success because of disappointment or break-ups with men. And I know for sure, that if you manage to channel the pain into creative energy (and I am sure you are already doing this) it will propell you even higher than you think you can go. In the greater scheme of things, every thing is just the way it needs to be, and one day you will realize that it was important for this man to go out of your life at this very moment, so that you can follow your own path.

  149.  #149Mistea1 on April 22, 2015 at 3:21 am

    Victoria 145,

    Yes, Victoria, this is so true. Good advice for us all.

  150.  #150Femininewoman on April 22, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Millie you are so right. Focus on your inner voice.

  151.  #151Mistea1 on April 22, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Sirens, Thank you all for listening and commenting. I’m sure many of you think I am completely crazed with this music obsession! You are all right I am, even by my standards.

    I did put a short note in his box thanking him for doing the Bach piece and giving it that nice ending I suggested.
    I felt like doing so much more but did not. I know he spent hours in practice for that as it is not in his normal repertoire and it is hard. The sound of it still envelopes me like a cloud.

    Now I am off to hear a new person perform at one of the top organs in the country here in town and hopefully this one will play expressively and well. I took my self out for breakfast this am after delivering the note and now off to listen to someone else and then home to wash clothes.

  152.  #152lovetodance on April 22, 2015 at 10:28 am


    i feel you are doing so well in recognizing the subtle yet powerful ‘addictive’ urges that can surge thro a person…

    even after a year of myself not seeing this ‘certain person’ and breaking off all contact….i can feel the adrenaline rushing thro me when i think of the possibility of seeing him in the future….

    its crazy…its a habitual neurological response to a well worn groove that I/ was …made in response to him and the situation…
    i know i have to be super vigilant and remind myself of what i really want and what i am really worth….REAL love and respect….

    keep up the good awareness Mistea1….i will do this work also….so many layers/levels to it….

  153.  #153Indigo on April 22, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Millie 144,

    I love this post of yours. I keep my own counsel more than ever before because I have felt like this so many times.

    The gift of quiet is a beautiful, beautiful, restorative, healing thing.

  154.  #154Lovergirl on April 22, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    I am feeling totally embarrassed! Somehow, I accidentally friend requested S’s best friend’s wife on Facebook. He and I aren’t even friends on there. I’ve never asked him about it because I went to high school with one of his exes and it just seemed like it could be awkward if we weren’t in a “relationship”.

    I didn’t know I had requested her until she accepted my request! I was missing him the other day and did a little Facebook stalking and since then I have had a few of his friends pop up in my suggested friends feed.

    Anyway, this is sooo awkward! I don’t want him to think I am stalking him, but I can’t exactly unfriend her either! We have met before, a few different times. So I sent her an email, I just said that I didn’t realize I had requested her, but that I remember meeting her through S and hope they are doing well.


  155.  #155Mistea1 on April 22, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    lovetodance 149,

    I asked my brother who is a doctor about this chemical rush that is like a cocaine rush. He said it uses the same pathways that the addictive chemicals use. In addition, he said it might cause a permanent change and that I might never be ‘over’ it. I might have to ‘manage’ it for the rest of my life. That’s why your comment about a ‘year later’ is well taken by me.

    Well, I think I have made great strides today in ‘managing’ my issue. I have listened to maybe 30 organists here in the area over the last 8-9 months.

    Today I finally got to hear the main organist who plays the big fancy one downtown that is in the top 20 organs in the US. He is quite acceptable, plays expressively AND he automatically plays the endings just how I prefer and maybe even better!!!

    I talked to him a few minutes afterward and he has a friendly, settled energy about him. When I got through talking to him I felt hopeful and confident. He said, “it’s really not that hard,” I couldn’t help it. I literally had tears of relief in my eyes. I am eager to begin practicing again and maybe one of them will consent to give me lessons when I am ready. Woo, hoo, another door opens!

  156.  #156Millie on April 22, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I feel disappointed in myself for leaning forward. I feel disappointed in myself for not allowing him space. I feel disappointed in myself for not trusting him and not respecting his masculine energy. I just feel disappointed in myself.

  157.  #157Dominique on April 22, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    Millie – I haven’t reached out to you in awhile, yet I want you to know I see you and follow your story. Usually it seems as though you’re doing really well even if it may not feel this way to you.
    I think it’s 144 post which is standing out for me in a big way. Not that I think you don’t have this, for you SO do. Yes, yes, YES you have been maybe overwhelming yourself, and maybe you’re overloaded. I feel so strongly about taking time,maybe lots of time to simply BE, and try sinking deeply into YOU – your body most importantly, for she has the to almost everything there is to know about you. Your heart as well. How does it feel in? Can you BE in there, and FEEL whatever it is you feel – good feeling and not so good feeling? Can you sink even more deeply? Can you BE with yourself doing nothing at all except enjoy yourself in yourself and in your surroundings? Your body and heart are always talking to you, but this will give them the space and thus access to you, so you can hear.
    Sending you much love from Paris.

  158.  #158Waterfall on April 22, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    So I experimented with myself today.

    I briefly met up with D today. He initiated the meet up.

    For the first time ever though I noticed how I am leaning forward without even realising it.

    We were talking in a light hearted way. He told me how much he missed the cuddles etc…

    I said well if you were able to properly do a relationship then you would have them from me. I did say it in a jokey way and he laughed.

    I told him off for being such a loner and how all qomen want commitment. He just laughed and yet again seemed to have no clue as to what I was talking about..

  159.  #159Millie on April 22, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    Thank you Victoria, Indigo, and Femininewoman 🙂

    Dominique, nice to hear from you !
    Yes I agree on the sinking…. Sinking. I wish I could lay in bed for a week and do nothing.

  160.  #160Liquid Light on April 22, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    I had a crazy day at work today. I’ve been put on a new project that is very high priority and have been trying to get up to speed. Today we observed users using the prototypes to see how usable they were. I ended up observing the live video sessions with a bunch of other people together in a room. One guy was there whom I had met previously but hadn’t known very well. As the session went on, I started becoming intrigued by him.

    He’s good looking but that’s as far as it went for me. Today, I got to know him a bit better. He’s very masculine, and as the day went on, I sensed that he was strutting a bit for me. It was very cute. He’s smart and enjoyed hearing his feedback, he seemed to enjoy hearing mine too. We both seemed to listen closely when the other one spoke. Then afterwards, we hung out and chatted for a while after everyone else left! It was so fun to chat and flirt. I really enjoyed his company and his attention. He seemed to enjoy mine too! So much fun! I rarely mix business and pleasure and only flirt with someone at work if I know he’s married and he won’t take my flirtation seriously. This was the first time in a long time that I was attracted to someone at work and wanted to flirt and openly did. It was so much fun!

  161.  #161Beloved on April 22, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    I feel so much more at peace this evening. No idea how long it will last 🙂 And, I feel appreciation and satisfaction.
    I felt SO wound up, anxious, and distressed at school today, I was venting my feelings of frustration, and I was saying, I’m feeling like venting my feelings describing them…and several of my classmates gathered round and hugged me, really really HUGGED me, and it felt wonderful. So. Wonderful and sweet and delicious. Another classmate and I ended up staying after class and working on our projects together and he asked me a lot of questions and I felt, loved and cared for.

    So this week I have felt multiple experiences of feeling loved and cared for in different states – when I’m feeling vulnerable, anxious, angry, upset, distressed, and also, at my best, just hanging out.

    I feel a LOT more at peace about going to TG to ask what he thought (I realize I didn’t actually ask for help, I asked what he thought and he offered to say something to her).
    On the way home tonight I was thinking of how similar J is to how I used to be and I suddenly remembered, how furious I felt when I learned T was talking to friends about what was going on between us. I demanded he stop, I felt so ashamed that people would know how I was behaving. He, to his great credit, refused.
    I realized then, that feeling ashamed for feeling I couldn’t handle it and talking to an outside source is an old pattern of abuse. Abusers shame people for trying to protect themselves, and don’t want you to tell anyone what’s going on.

    I went to see the play Chicago tonight to get my mind off of things, which did help me feel relaxed. Even after 2 weeks of rehearsals, I felt happy to see it again. Although, I did feel emotionally involved in the play and it helped me feel and release some stuff. I took advantage of the dark theater to cry. Not having my “no” or “stop” respected brought back a thousand memories of the guy that stalked me and all of that experience.

    Today, I am coughing, my chest hurts and my throat is sore from the huge rush of whatever that was that I felt yesterday when I told J through the door that I could hear what she was saying. I really do feel curious and wonder why, and a doctor’s visit isn’t the budget for now. Which I feel sad about. And, I have been taking steps to get some income going so I am taking care of myself.

    I love

  162.  #162Lavender on April 22, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    I need some advice ladies.
    I have been on cloud 9 since using Rori’s tools to transform my relationship. I’ve built up trust for a man who lost my trust a while ago. I’ve felt like a goddess and princess every day and feel loved and cherished. My now Fiancé spends all his free time by my side and showers me wih affection. A dream come true right?
    But yesterday it all came crashing down 🙁 we took the day off to look at rings and celebrate and so some other stuff for the marriage, that was the plan. I was so excited! The night before, he had to work bar tending and I thought he was goin to come stay the night at my place. But when I realized he wasn’t here by 3am, I sent him a message asking if he was staying here tonight. There was no response. I freaked out! I thought it was incredibly disrespectful especially when he had texted me earlier saying ” I can’t wait to see you later”.
    I texted him saying “this is not ok”
    The next morning he showed up at my house and when I asked what happened he said that he took a drunk (female) friend home but when he got there realized he was too drunk to be driving himself so decided to sleep off the alcohol on her couch.
    There are so many things wrong with this story I don’t even know where to begin. He said that he just wants to be honest with me and that he could have lied and said he went home or was at a guy friends house. He promised that nothing was going on, but still this had crossed a huge boundary. Especially knowing we had just rebuilt trust. So I called off the wedding 🙁
    He told me I can talk to the female friend if I wish, and said he is getting used to being in a real relationship and didn’t realize what a big deal that was. He keeps begging me to just give him some more time to prove he is 100% about me. I don’t know what to do. I asked him to give me some space while I figure out my own feelings. My heart tells me that he is being honest and faithful. But, I don’t want to fool myself and I’m not sure if I want to put myself in that situation.

  163.  #163Indigo on April 23, 2015 at 1:44 am


    What a horrible thing to have happen to you.
    For what it’s worth, I think you are doing the right thing – backing off, taking space and figuring out your own feelings. I would have a hard time trusting in a situation like that – even if he didn’t do anything with the female friend, which I’m sure he didn’t, it’s the behaviour which I wouldn’t want to tolerate. It feels bad and it’s not consistent with a relationship I would want to have.

    At the same time, too much talking can do damage in a situation like this. If it were me, I would want to send a message that this behaviour is not ok with me and he doesn’t get to be close to me again right away. I’d probably say “I respect you as an adult who can make your own decisions, and if you say nothing happened, I believe you. But this felt really bad and I don’t want to feel this way. I want to be able to trust when a man says he is coming home to me that he is.” And then I would simply take space and process your own feelings, maybe journal about it, do something nice for yourself. Let him come back to you and see his behaviour from now on.

  164.  #164Femininewoman on April 23, 2015 at 1:48 am

    Lavender you know Dominique talks about choosing trust from moment to moment. Truth is every human messes up. I dunno I would be more concerned about the drinking and getting drunk than anything else. If that is something regular I know I couldn’t.

  165.  #165Indigo on April 23, 2015 at 1:55 am

    Yes Lavender, Feminine Woman has a good point. Until you KNOW for sure he has done something wrong, it’s best to choose trust. Believe him if he says nothing happened – if he’s done something wrong it will come out on its own. But DO take care of yourself and your own feelings in the meantime.

  166.  #166Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 5:19 am

    Congratulations on your engagement!!
    This is a BIG step for both of you…
    most times, space is created (sometimes negatively)
    to process the next step….
    feels like giving up freedom for both of you
    He did the taking of space…
    Sooo you didn’t have to show your uncertainty…
    fear of MORE intimacy
    fear of loosing your freedom and autonomy…
    LOVE on YOU… see what the triggers are
    for YOU…
    this is a wonderful opportunity for YOU to realize the Space YOU need on a regular basis/?>

  167.  #167Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 5:21 am

    Soooo lovely to see you here on Siren Island
    How are things going?
    Are you CDing New and interesting men?

  168.  #168Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 5:24 am

    Sooo wonderful of you to share your authentic voice
    about your meeting with D…
    BIG step to notice how you lean forward in your interactions with D.
    Big Step!! Give Yourself some Big huggggsss!!
    and LOVE YOUR leaning forward!!!

  169.  #169Mistea1 on April 23, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Well, this is interesting. now it appears I have a choice.

    Right now my little apartment is overrun by chaos. The washer did not spin my clothes and I had a sopping mess to wring out by hand and drape all over my place to dry.

    MusicTd is still running his chaos around me and due to my comfortableness with hypervigilence around chaos it actually feels more comfortable and exciting to me. What if I relax or let down my guard? Something terrible might happen. Then where would I be? MusicTd exactly fits the bill here as he is always ready to poke at me with his stick to find out if he’s killed off my spirit yet. I get it now.

    When MusicTd’s friend from Westminster Abbey in London came to play he did something with the music that was so comforting and secure and joyful I could really feel the difference. Then I went to the cathedral downtown yesterday to hear their main organist play and his playing was comforting and secure and joyful as well. His energy was settled and friendly as is the energy of the woman who also plays there. They are both open to lessons eventually.

    So do I continue chaos or do I form an alliance with comfort, security and joy? Wait, wait, don’t tell me!

    I am going to meditate on this as I fold and put away each piece of laundry as it dries. At the end my apartment will be comfortable, secure and I’ll feel joyful that the chaos will be eliminated. This is another big issue I have carried with me since childhood. It deserves time and attention to release it from my body and mind. Wish me luck all as I can’t even consider a relationship with anyone until my relationship with myself is better.

  170.  #170Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 7:43 am

    Such Sireny observations of your discomfort with comfortable, secure and joyful
    and PURE comfort with Chaos (ahhh… a lifelong friend of mine as well)
    ME TOO… ME TOO!!!
    “MusicTd is still running his chaos…and due to my comfort with chaos
    it actually feels more comfortable
    and exciting to me.”
    “So do I continue chaos or do I form an alliance with comfort, security and joy?”

    Spirit creates in me the chaos I was raised with
    and seek diligently to recreate everyday of my life…

    and now I come to Rori and Siren Island and alllll you lovely sirens…
    to help me sing a new song…
    To CRAVE comfort, security AND joy…

    because I am VERY tired
    of the heavy toll
    that CHAOS has had on ME
    for so long!!!

  171.  #171lovetodance on April 23, 2015 at 8:42 am

    ohhhh azure and mistea….

    such powerful observations of self ….

    this too i know…

    the tumult feeling familiar and exciting….

    and yet just recently feeling love and respect from an open hearted man…and feeling for the first time in a long time…the realness, the sweetness, the health of that… sweetness of peaches compared to a candy bar… different it settles in me ….

    one nourishes me

    one spikes me up and drops me down into despair…

    i feel we are doing such good work here…lifetime, soul work….untwisting the wet sopping laundry…spreading it out to dry….to fold and put away with lavender envelopes in between….
    taking care with love of ourselves

    right on siren sisters!

  172.  #172lovetodance on April 23, 2015 at 8:47 am


    i have been following your sweet siren story…..

    i feel how you have been working to build trust and the capacity for intimacy inside yourself….
    repairing and healing and strengthening that ability …

    such crucial work for all of us….

    how do you feel now?

    if spirit comes forward….he is a lucky man
    if not
    you are the lucky woman beautiful strong siren azure..
    you deserve the best my friend….
    and not someone who cannot meet you at the level you have been working so hard to come to….

    and i know you will know…

  173.  #173lovetodance on April 23, 2015 at 8:53 am

    azure beautiful siren…
    thank you for asking ….

    i let go of the sweet man 3 weeks ago…. a beautiful man that i have missed…
    the circumstances of his life were more than i felt i could truely intwine with and be there fully…
    it all felt like it happened so fast….
    the falling in love feelings…..the intimacy….there truely was a bond and a connection…and many times i wonder if i did the right thing….and many times i feel yes i did…

    yet…i wonder will i find another, others who had his sensitivity and wisdom? and gorgeous brown skin…. dunno…
    i have been cding with the world
    off of online
    focusing on career and health…
    feel lonely lots and also engaged lots

    going to a festival in a few weeks where there will be lots of opportunity for cding, dancing , flirting….going with a different heart this time….different eyes….
    an opportunity to unzip my heart and cherish myself all at the same time….

  174.  #174Kim on April 23, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Wow ladies, very timely about the addicted to chaos theme. Me too. Chaos and unpredictability, up and down, unvailable men….I secretly was feeding off that.
    Now my guy is moving in tomorrow, and I feel nervous but he is totally devoted to me, things ar really going well, it feels safe and good most of the time, but…
    I was just thinking back on some of the pseudo relationships I had before, and how I was feeding off these highly ambiguous, fun, gung-ho and exciting men I was guy, MrP…both of whom were unavilable yet I was thinking how we had something ‘special’…and maybe part of that something special was just the thrill and safety of unavailability.
    No, I don’t get a massive chemical rush when I look into my guy’s eyes, I don’t feel addicted to him or overly attached…I don’t ruminate or get into his head (VERY rarely)…it sometimes feels a little boring, and I remind myself that this is because it is not keeping me off balance.
    So, a lot to work on for me.

  175.  #175Millie on April 23, 2015 at 10:18 am

    ((((Lavender))) I’m so sorry this happened 🙁

  176.  #176Lavender on April 23, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    Indigo 160

    Thank you. I wish I could go back and say what you said. I just cried and cried and cried and told him I needed to figure out if I can trust him still. He told me today “I know I messed up and I know you’re not going to give me another chance”. I just said “I’m feeling lost and confused, I don’t know what to do. Please just give me space”. I did tell him that this took are relationship back many steps.
    I feel comforted at your response. I fell like I am handling this the right way by stepping back and re assessing what I accept and what I won’t and if I can trust him or not. It feels good to have some real advice, instead of someone just telling me to leave him and that he’s probably cheating.

  177.  #177Lavender on April 23, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    FW 161
    He has a second job as a bar tender and does drink while working (it’s part of the bartending job/culture) for him to have a few shots at work is perfectly normal and acceptable to me. I’m hurt that he consumed too much the night before an important day for us. In addition, this is why taxis exist :/

    FW 161 and Indigo 162
    About the trust thing, this advice really helped. I read your comments last night and I could feel the truth in it. If there is something that I need to know it will be revealed. I guess all I can do is look in my heart and decide if I WANT to keep choosing to trust this man.

  178.  #178Lavender on April 23, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Azure 163

    So you’re saying this was a subconscious way to create space?
    I kind of wondered that. Like he did what he did because of a subconscious fear or need to step back, and he knew it would push me away a bit.
    Is this what you meant?

  179.  #179Lavender on April 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm


    Thank you for thinking of me. This blog and Dominique’s blog are a blessing to me. I couldn’t talk to my friends and family because they would all criticize and judge him. I had nowhere to turn. It feels good to be able to bring these issues up and have such honest and helpful responses.

  180.  #180Kim on April 23, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    Lavender, no it’s not about criticising and judging him, it’s about what you want and what your boundaries are.
    I know for me it would be unacceptable for my fiancee or bf at that, to be spending the night drunk at another woman’s place. In that particular instance, even if nothing happened, it would be a total dealbreaker for me just because it wouldn’t feel good.
    Any man unless a very clueless or toxic one, would know that it is unacceptable…and he also stood you up on top of all this. Even if it is an attempt at creating space, I would ask myself if this is what I could live with…or get married to….you mentioned that you already had some broken trust at some point.
    It is one thing trusting blindly and another when your intuition/information is telling you something is off…honestly, I would find it hard to trust a man who spends drunk nights at another woman’s house but that is something for you to decide…about the drinking, most bartenders found drinking at a decent establishment, would get fired, and I know that one for a fact (I worked in hospitality in more countries and venues than one), although it may be part of the culture where you are, I doubt the owners of a place would want their bartenders smashed out of their heads…that’s just on another note.
    I am wondering how old you guys are?
    If you don’t mind me saying, the whole scenario sounds immature to me. And that is totally judgmental now, but I think the responsibilities and values and vows that surrounds marriage, are you both ready for this?
    Just some of the questions I would ask myself if I were dating a man like this..perhaps he is not ready.

  181.  #181Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Lavendar #175
    Yes… I believe this happens a lot… when
    2 people get ready to make a deeper commitment
    One person will do something that creates the space
    they BOTH need…
    You might have needed this space to – and actually you’re taking it now –

    sounds to me like you are doing GREAT – and your feeling messages were spot on –
    I know this hurts!!!
    AND it’s scary when trust was broken before…
    Sending you much hugs and warm vibrations!!

  182.  #182Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Kim #177 is making some VERY good points!!!

  183.  #183Kim on April 23, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Azure, you have some excellent points also, in fact as it got closer to my guy moving in (tomorrow
    I tried to create space, picked fights, stepped nervous and somewhat a little disappointed there is no ring…but I got over it. Now I feel happy, nervous, excited….
    But I think it is a big difference whether we push someone away or whether we just take a time out.
    If I had spent the night drunk at another man’s place……whatever the reason, whatever did or didn’t happen…I am not sure my guy would not have cancelled everything, and honestly, I wouldn’t even have blamed him.
    That’s a pretty big faux pas…it sounds to me more like blatant perhaps subconscious rebellion, than taking space.
    To me not the actions of a man who is excitedly getting prepared for marriage with the love of his life.
    He just risked getting dumped….

  184.  #184Azure Blu on April 23, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    How wonderful… tomorrow MoM is moving in!!!
    Sooo excited for you and your fabulous Siren self!!
    Alll the hard work you have done to open your heart to love, to be Strong on the inside…
    yay!!! I feel Happy for you,,,
    you deserve this!

  185.  #185Femininewoman on April 23, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    Lavender/Kim – when someone drinks and is drunk they are not responsible for their actions is my humble opinion because they really are not in charge of their faculties and not making decisions from a centered place. Which is why I went to the drinking. If we accept being drunk as part of the norm around his job or part of the possibility I can’t see how I would reasonably establish a boundary there. When drunk how can he make a solid decision. If he is drunk how can he be held accountable for his actions? He is drunk. I see people at times sleeping on the streets because they are drunk. At least he was a bit concerned about his safety. For me I am wondering how did he make it to her house in the first place. I would be concerned about him getting hurt while driving, or what could possibly happen when he is drunk so the drunkenness would be the issue. That would be where I’d establish my boundary. I could be with someone who is likely to get so drunk because I know I would be going out of my mind if I hear nothing and cannot make contact. It would be too stressful for me.

  186.  #186Kim on April 23, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    Azure <3 thank you so much 🙂
    We shall see how it goes lol

  187.  #187Kim on April 23, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    FW yes. Unfortunately it seems socially acceptable, even for older men with families, to come from work functions or whatever totally out of it and even get into a car. Unfortunately some of the (very nice actually) friends of my guy are like this. To me, whoa, what a turn off when a man can not stop at a glass of wine or a beer and has to get ratfaced and forgets all his responsibilities and then risks not only his life but that of others on the road, and kis kid’s future.
    It triggers me beyone belief, to the extent that it feels bad to me to socialise with people like that and to worry if they make it home when they resist booking a taxi.
    And then the peer pressure.
    One of our first dates was with my guy’s work colleagues. All got very drunk, all drove home..ugh…terrible. Including my guy. I was shocked. I said nothing as it was early on, but he saw from my face and the way I was short etc., how I felt….it never happened again in two years. I have since made it clear that I expect him to act according to how he wants to be perceived, as a mature and responsibke and reliable adult, and that I do not care what his friends do…I expect him to think for himself. He will now bring it up himself, like it is his idea, to stay home when he had one or two drinks, or when out to have only one (and he will!) or he even encourages the others to pool in for a taxi.
    I hope it will always be like this. I told him I do not want to worry about him driving at night being a danger to himself and others, and even before I said it, he was being very sensible.
    Believe me, after that first time this happened, I watched him very closely. I could not be with a man who didn’t know his limits and didn’t act like a responsible adult…
    Total trigger for me….

  188.  #188Lavender on April 23, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Wow! You all are amazing! I feel so grateful for your openness and honesty!
    Kim, you are right in so many aspects. We are in our twenties and he is younger than me. I really don’t think he is Toxic, I think he is CLUELESS. While I got married very young and divorced just as young, he hasn’t been in a real and serious relationship before.
    I was shocked when he started stepping up to the plate and behaving like a man, I didn’t think it was possible, haha. And honestly, until this incident he has treated me better than any man I’ve been with. But maybe this was just a rude wake up call that he is not ready for something this serious.
    As far as the drinking thing, it really doesn’t bother me. He works at a dive bar and customers are always buying shots for the bartenders. But FW made a good point, if drinking causes bad judgment and choices maybe he drinking should be a boundary.
    I think I am going to step way back and tell him I will start dating again. See what happens from there. Right now I need to work on me. Oh well.

  189.  #189Kim on April 23, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    Lavender, that all makes sense to me, you’ve got this!

  190.  #190Indigo on April 23, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    In any relationship I am in, I feel like a conversation needs to be had about how we are going to handle it when or both of us drinks. I agree with both Kim and Feminine Woman – I am very triggered by people who risk their own lives and those of others by driving drunk, having known of several young people who lost their lives this way. And also, I agree that you are not fully responsible for your actions while you are drunk. Which is why I don’t get drunk any more. I think having a plan beforehand would be essential for me to feel safe in a relationship – whether you decide to take a taxi, or use a service which drives you and your car home, or a sober friend agrees to drive you or whatever. Drinking is not a dealbreaker for me, but lack of responsible planning is.

  191.  #191Kim on April 24, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Talking about the actual topic of this thread…uhmmm….my guy is moving in today and last night we had a row.
    After three months, there is more procrastination…he was supposed to get his furniture to a friend who bought it from him, it rained earlier in the day…so they cancelled it…of course by the time they wanted to do it the rain was long gone…just another excuse for more procrastination and now it is driving me nutso…I have to admit. And another day, and another day…all the stuff I cleaned out and cleaned, well I am now cleaning it a second time because it was almost three months ago lol. Aaaaaaaargh.
    He was planning to bring all his crockery and cutlery to my place, even though I have everything, and plenty of plates etc and we had talked about it…..this is a fully furnished studio, turnkey, there is no need/space to duplicate anything. He said we hadn’t talked about it and still intends to bring it all and then we can figure it out…..NOOOOOOOO! OMG..figure what out, how to move in here? I saw red. Lol.
    So well, I blew up at him…not good, but I am pretty high energy and quick decision and quick acting….bearing mind this whole process has taken him three months (moving and storage) and I have not said a thing about that and let him do his thing, practised myself in patience and mouth shutting lol….but after that statement (‘bringing it all here and figurig it out), I saw in my head already boxes stacked for weeks in my tiny studio, of stuff we already have….and it taking even longer before normal life ensues…I had a go at him and said basically that I am not happy that this stuff has to come here first and I do not want boxes of duplicate stuff here for weeks and he knows which crockery and cutlery I have (he claimed he didn’t, which is frankly not true!)….and we got into a whole argument and it spilled out of me that I found it odd it takes someone three months to move and I do not want another three months in chaos. Uh oh!
    He got really defensive and said that it’s normal people take three months to move…and he has more considerations than most people..of course this is a ridiculous statement…people have kids, pets, large amounts of furniture etc. He is moving from a bachelor 1 bedroom apartment….I moved from a three bedroom house in a single weekend lol. And obviously I had to rub that in his face … But it is the truth….
    Then he started blaming me, saying I kept him from being faster because we still had dates (two a week when I said I wanted to help, but no)…
    In reality, what keeps him from being fast is himself, wasting time being on the computer, wasting time cataloguing stuff from the 1950’s from his parents and putting items on ebay that should have been donated etc., all a colossal waste of time…he even packed it all into shipping boxes..of course it never shipped because it never sold, so he had to unpack it all again….of course I didn’t say what my toughts were on any of this. I let him do it and waited. I did have a premonition how it would ever be to move with him again…but I kinda let him get on.
    In the end I said ‘ok, I trust you to make the right decisions, I just do not want to sit amongst boxes for the next three months, not being able to move’. I sent him a text saying that i am sorry I stepped on his feet but my intention is to make this process as painless as possible (I moved so many times in my life)
    He sulked, didn’t hear from him after….and now I am thinking about all this. Yes, maybe I should have let him make the decisions, but, I also have to live and work from this place and I also have needs…so I had to tell him ‘no duplication of items please’….which I consider to be common sense anyway…and bam, yes, he felt threatened and disrespected by that I suppose, but c’est la vie.
    We have very different characters and sometimes I have to speak up because things need to work for me too…oh well…lol.
    Wish me luck. I am intending to stay away for most of the day, I already pulled a muscle in my back so i am useless anyway…. 😉

  192.  #192Kim on April 24, 2015 at 5:18 am

    I think this back muscle is a psychosomatic reaction to the conversation we had yesterday haha…because I did it last week and didn’t feel it yesterday at all…..and this morning back to square1.
    My body is telling me ‘stay put of this’

  193.  #193Kim on April 24, 2015 at 5:19 am

    ‘Stay out of this’ even.

  194.  #194Azure Blu on April 24, 2015 at 5:25 am

    Lovely, warm Sunshiny You!!!
    I can understand your hesitation to live amoungst
    too many boxes in a small space with an added (albeit, adorable man) person…
    I can also understand that tensions are High…
    I think it’s a great idea to be gone today!!!
    Good luck sweetness!!
    all is Wonderful & love is messy! :0))

  195.  #195Kim on April 24, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Thank you Azure…I am even taking a packed lunch down to the common room hahaha…
    It’s going to be fine…I think. 😉

  196.  #196lovetodance on April 24, 2015 at 9:47 am


    sending you lightness that you already have…as you float thru this big transistion….yes, the back muscle…seems very appropriate….

    and honoring his needs and yours….wow what a challenge..loved what azure said…wonderful and love is messy….

    so smart…lunch in the common room…breathing deeply ….imagining the good times…images of really enjoying him when you have….his good qualities…

    in my list of high stress items…moving in with someone or vice verse would be #1..
    i cheer you on ….navigating this is like a microcosm me thinks of any other negotiations in the relationship…you are doing great….practiced and experienced siren…
    take care of yourself..
    can you go get a massage?

  197.  #197Azure Blu on April 24, 2015 at 10:09 am

    Ahhh… so Sireny of you to be tucked away taking
    loving, compassionate care of YOU!!

    I agree with lovetodance…
    Remember one of your FAVORITE times with him…
    what was the season, the weather, where did you go…
    what did you ware…
    Then think of another favorite time…
    Remember Rori says… no judgement… just BE… just Breathe

  198.  #198nyx on April 24, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    @ Beloved 78

    People who like to fight, seldom stay for long around others, nor are they welcome. My advice to you is to have extremely short and somehow sweet (if you cannot manage that, coldly polite) interactions with her.

    Expect her trying to start a row, her talking to a friend seems she is already feeling you distancing you from her. She likely already got into conflicts with several people, be unattainable and wait till she starts a conflict with your landlord… (which is well on the way already if I recall it correctly? Do not let her use you to release her frustration, leave every situation, and just- yes- hope it will blow up mauling and motivating the one person (except herself ofc) that can remove her.

    (a quote for fun/semi-seriousness: “you smell like headache and drama, get away from me”)

  199.  #199Beloved on April 24, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    nyx – honestly I don’t know if she wanted to fight or not. I’m guessing, at the deepest level, what she was wanting, or wants, is love.

    What I DO know, is that I imagined fight scenes in MY mind when she got super close to me in the kitchen and opened a cabinet just bare inches from my face.

    I changed those to “hug” scenes, lol.

    No idea how it will play out from here…I just need to keep remembering to keep my mind in my own business.