Do You Still Want Him After He Did This?

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Here’s a comment from Pam that I think is all too common, and I wanted to start a discussion around it…

“Rori, I discovered my man of 1.5 years was also on a dating website after he proposed to me on Christmas Day. He was checking out profiles, checking a secret acct for email and had emailed a women back in August saying he liked her profile and wanted to get to know her more. This all happened 6 weeks ago and he just wants me to “forget it” as it didn’t mean anything – he was just doing it for the “rush.” I feel as if it really damaged our relationship. I want to walk but don’t. Trying to figure out why. I now have the Toxic Men Cd’s……He’s now doing all the right things (sometimes) but it feels empty. So frustrating. And so much more to the story. I love these posts. I read them every day. Any suggestions on how to use feeling messages 6 weeks later? I’ve let it go but it’s still there and I’m very very angry about. Not sure I trust myself to be calm and use feeling messages. Thanks.

Here’s my answer:

Pam, This is different from porn, which is something you can deal with. This is actually contacting other women. This is a minefield. This is a serious red flag.

The way out of this is to TALK.

You need to sit down with him and ASK him (without being upset, without accusing him, without disrespect – you have to put all that aside in order to FIND OUT what you need to FIND OUT) the questions you need to ask him so you can experience how you feel about him.

You need to ask things like this: What does he want. Why he needed the “rush.” Does he want to marry you. WHY did he propose to you. Ask him if he thinks it’s a guy thing, or if he thinks you could do that too? (Don’t ask this in a revenge sort of way – you just want to find out what kind of man he is – which is turning out to be a big surprise.)

Let him know that he’s entitled to do whatever he wants – and you do not judge him (work really hard on this, because your anger and grief is going to trigger judgment), even though it feels painful for you – but that you’re trying to figure out how to best take care of yourself from here on. You’re trying to figure out whether you should marry him or not.

You’re not out to punish him.  You’re out to discover if you want to be here…

You may discover that this was something he was doing BEFORE he proposed to you, while he was trying to figure out what he wanted to do – and that he stopped doing it as soon as he proposed.  If that’s the case – you should be fine, but you need to know if that’s the case.

Ask him if he thinks you should get counseling together, or just work this out together. Let him know this is not a little thing for you, because if this is something he wants to do – you don’t want his marriage to you to feel like a prison for him. If this is something a single man does, he won’t be able to do it when you’re married. Really, really get as honest and deep as you can by creating a safe space for him to talk.

Now – here’s the truly mind-blowing, important part of all this:

Pam, you said: He’s now doing all the right things (sometimes) but it feels empty.

What happens to us when we’re in shock (and this is a shock) is we go to trauma, and we go to grief, and we go through all the ways of dealing with those that we know.

We go through the 7 Stages of Grief – grief being you are grieving the innocence and security of thinking things were one way, and they weren’t. You’re grieving a genuine betrayal (not as serious as an actual, in-person affair, but a betrayal of trust nonetheless.

We go through “denial” and we go through “numbness,” and we either fight and attack, or flee and disappear if we can, or we just go numb. We stop feeling altogether, because the feelings are too intense and painful, and because we don’t know how to stop them from keeping rolling on and on and getting more and more painful.

We also don’t know the outcome of the situation. We’ve discovered we’re truly not in control of what he does – only what WE do.

We feel helpless – and this is what trauma is: – being in a painful situation that is beyond our control.

Now, I want to show you the difference between that kind of trauma reaction – which, if you can become aware of how it’s working in you, can change your life immeasurably for the better – and the other possibility, a possibility that can give you so much amazing hope for yourself and faith in yourself: We just see a man for who is is (even in a shocking way) and something in us that really loves us stops wanting to be with this man. We actually LOSE FEELING for HIM. This is very different from going numb.

If you watch TV – this is playing out in “The Good Wife.”  She’s a magnificent character, brutally betrayed by her “loving” and “wonderful” husband – working her way through it, and finding that her feelings for her husband have just turned to kindness and perhaps a friendship based on family and their children, and the old, good, memories – but that she’s LOSING her bonded, romantic, marriage feelings for him.

She’s now discovering she’s feeling a strong attraction to and bond with another man – who’s perhaps more honorable and deserving. She’s discovering that forgiveness doesn’t mean she really, truly wants to go back to married life with her husband.  She has instincts to move past that and move on to something new, that doesn’t have all those painful memories and doubts. She’s discovering she doesn’t HAVE to get all that back.  It’s not required.

And this has nothing to do with anger, or revenge, or drama of any kind.  Her feelings have simply changed.

If a man stops treating us, or never did treat us, beautifully as we deserve – we can get bored with him. The co-dependent, pining, waffling, insecure part of us that was throwing ourselves at the feet of a man who didn’t deserve us all of a sudden – when you do the Tools and start to love yourself more intensely than you’ve loved any man – starts to fade.

And what appears in your mind, heart, body and spirit is a Siren, a Diva, a woman who knows her worth and KNOWS that a good man will make her feel GOOD, not BAD. and instead of feeling pain and grief – you’ll feel disinterest. It’s sort of – you won’t want to be bothered.

So – Pam, if you can get THIS attitude going, you’ll know what to do. In other words, ask him what I’ve asked you to consider asking – just to get the information you need to make a good decision for yourself based on your feelings – and then amp up your life that’s not about him and see how you feel about him.

If this were a movie – it would be “Boy meets girl, boy LOSES girl by doing something really stupid and jerky….” And this is where he’s at. He’s about to lose you because of something really stupid and jerky that he did. Your job is to find out what that means for your future, and if he really is “all that” for you – or if you can do way better.

Please give yourself time to process this. Be gentle and loving with yourself. Observe him, without feeling you HAVE to do anything.

The power now belongs to you.  Accept it. Use it. Love it.

Love, Rori

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230 Comments

  1.  #1heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    After a year of seeing my last man, he came to me one Saturday morning (usually our separate time) to tell me he was on his way to be a birth-companion to an ex-girlfriend.

    I felt stunned. And confused. I said – “I have a million feelings going on at once. I feel terrified. I feel appreciative of your honesty. I feel concerned.”

    Then I just listened. I listened while he told me the father had run off, how he and his ex-girlfriend of a few years back had stayed supportive friends, how she asked if he would help if she needed it at the birth, how he hoped the baby would come in the week so I wouldn’t find out.

    I listened to all this, asked a few questions, stayed open, then I said – is there anything I can do? He said – I was thinking that, maybe there is. I’ll call you in a bit.

    I felt better at the prospect of being included.

    I was still feeling shaky. My head was spinning. I said – wow what an amazing friend you are. This is an emergency, you better go.

    After he went I got myself dressed etc. After a couple of hours I hit a wall of fear and shakiness and agitation. It was awful. Everything felt unreal. I was so scared he would bond with this woman and her new baby – and he has no children, is ten years younger than me, and I can’t have any more.

    I felt betrayed. My head was trying to be reasonable, then it was giving me painful endings.

    He called a couple of times to give me updates. I wanted to be supportive and feel involved, but all I could feel was pain, hearing his concern and excitement in the ’emergency’. I was not invited. When he said a female friend had arrived, I said – I feel upset about this, I don’t want you to stay there. He said he wanted to keep his promise.

    He came over later that evening. He was clearly shocked by the whole process, he said he hadn’t known what to expect, hadn’t had any pre-natal class etc. I was still feeling shaky and scared and angry. I felt a great chasm opening up inside when he got tearful recounting how he feared she or the baby might die. I just listened. I felt numb.

    For days I was in shock, confused, angry, compassionate, afraid.

    We did talk through it – slowly, bit by bit – my anger, his fear of a rift – but then a further betrayal occurred – slowly – as I was never invited to visit. And a few weeks later, she had a party for the baby – he went, and told me he was going, but didn’t invite me.

    Again I expressed my feelings, but it took me a long time to draw a boundary – “we each have our own friends but I will not put up with you attending parties and family events without me”.

    It took me baby steps along the way and another year before I reached that point. I felt a huge shift in me. After this, he made excuses not to come over – the weather, illness, depression.

    Whatever his version of the story – I felt shocked and scared, and looking back I worked through this ALONE. He sometimes offered a bit of reassurance but not much more than that.

    I will never let that happen to me again. I’m still processing the feelings, the feelings broke my trust. If he’d introduced me to her, what a difference that would have made to me. But he explained he keeps all his friends separate from one another, he feels a deep-seated fear when ‘worlds overlap’. It took months for that to come out. The little present and card I bought, thinking I’d be meeting a new extension to my chosen family, gathered dust on the shelf – a painful reminder.

    I felt too ashamed to tell anyone what happened, even my best friends. I didn’t tell anyone for months. I was scared they’d judge me. I felt foolish. I feel a little shaky writing this now.

    I appreciate this post because it explains a lot of what I went through.



  2.  #2heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    If this happened to me now, I’d feel much more confident in handling myself, expressing my feelings and boundaries in a respectful way. It’s as simple as this: a man who considers hiding major stuff from me and who keeps on doing something I’ve already stated boundaries about, is not husband material. Period.



  3.  #3Jennifer on March 6, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Stunned.
    Stunned.
    I can get bored of the drama with B?
    The pining whining co dependant part can stop?
    I can decide I DONT want it back?
    Wouldn’t that be da bomb?
    Rori. Rocks.



  4.  #4heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I feel sad too – because through all this we seemed to get closer and know more about each other. My trust started to build again. I feel proud of how I handled myself – at one time I’ve have been like a maniac.

    I’m having a wry smile now as I reclaim my anger… I could really let rip, but it’s past now, and I know now how to feel it and process it. I just feel a little sad.

    I feel triumphant knowing what I’ll not put up with in future.

    No, no and NO.



  5.  #5Beth on March 6, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Thank you Pam for sharing your painful experience, I know with Rori’s help you will be successful in dealing with your situation.
    Thank you Rori for helping us with your wonderful and caring advice.
    I have put up with behavior from a man for the last 2 years that I am still ashamed to admit. As I practice the tools, I can relate to what Rori said about the 7 stages of grief, and my feelings changing towards him, and I can also relate to Pam on feeling empty. I have the e-book, and the toxic men program also, and he is an extreme toxic, and I am co-dependent.
    I have tried to express to him how I am feeling, but I don’t feel like I was very successful. Lately, I have just distanced myself from him and it has gotten a little easier each day, but I still have a lot of anger.
    Now, he is calling me and texting me again, and I have been nice, but I really need some cheerleaders out there to help me have the courage and love for myself to let him know I really don’t want to talk to him anymore, and I want to do it without attacking him or lashing out at him. He is the classic example of a boy man, it’s all about him.
    I welcome any advice you can give me on what to say the next time he calls, and how to handle this anger I’m feeling.
    Thank you!



  6.  #6Turtle Girl on March 6, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Wow-deep sigh- upon reading this post. Wow.
    Another one upon reading Heartbeats story.

    *sigh* wow and wow and wow……………
    The things we women go through………..
    unbelievable and yet real. We don’t want to believe them at the time because they are as this post says-trauma. And THAT takes some processing.
    I know It has taken me years of work to get from totally not even recognizing what just happened, much less do anything about it, to these days-being able to recognize the abuse right or close to when it happens and respond a very different way than what I used to. It’s been a long road.

    Many years ago my husband at the time started having affairs. The worst of it was when he went over to her house on Thanksgiving day! Left me alone by myself to go have turkey dinner with his cheating little trollop. I was hysterically crying and begging him not to go. But he did. Wow-that was many many years ago and I had no power. What a mess it was. I would never do that today. I would walk right out that door so fast his head would spin.

    You are so right on heartbeat, men to do these kinds of things are not partner material-period. End of discussion. End of story. NEXT!



  7.  #7Turtle Girl on March 6, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    Jennifer-

    I so enjoy all your posts. You have the courage to be truthful with all your feelings. You are a wonderful goddess!

    The pining can stop. Mine gets smaller and smaller all the time. the more I take care of me. The more I see him for who is really is instead of who I wanted him to be (imaginary). Reality and truth in spades.

    This post really struck a cord-the men who need the “rush”. What is that about? What kind of man is a man who is always on a dating site even when he has a woman because he needs the rush? A very insecure man? A little boy? A man who can never really be committed to me? A man who I could never trust in our relationship? Who is this man? Is he real? Is he someone I want to be with for the long haul, especially marry? This would scare the crap out of me and I would have to totally take a big step backward and maybe not see him for a while to figure out what I wanted to do with this. This is a big deal. What kind of man is he?



  8.  #8heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Wow Turtle Girl – I love all those questions – they should be etched in gold as a reference manual!! Thank you. I appreciate you sharing your story too. I feel deeply connected and touched xx



  9.  #9Daria on March 6, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    ouch @ trollop goddess. I feel triggered.

    I feel triggered like when a man repeatedly puts me down or says something that I feel tightened up aabout, and then I feel so overwhelmed.

    Like if I bother to stand up for myself everytime I feel bad it will sounds like a wait but wait, but wait. but wait… because there is just so much, his whole demeanor seems filled with little judgements and put downs about me. But when I don’t I feel filled up with intense shaking that doesn’t feel good. And I feel like i’m not standing up or expressing my self.

    I feel tired. I feel confused. I feel uncomfortable. I Feel FUCK . I feel intensity. I feel intensity.. I Feel this feeling that tightens up my chest and makes my face hot and I feel like screaming with my chest.

    I love my feelings. I LOVE MY FEELINGS. I LOVE MY FEELINGS GODDDAMN IT.



  10.  #10Daria on March 6, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Uh . Where is the slams door and logs off button. I feel surprised at my trigger. I feel off on trigger hights. LIke Dorothy in the house going up from Kansas. Where am I going!! IM SPINNNING OUT ON THIS WINDDDDD…. I LOVE MY FEELINGS



  11.  #11heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Daria tap the heels on your magic slippers 🙂



  12.  #12Turtle Girl on March 6, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Oh I was never upset with trollop goddess. She was just doing what her battered self esteem was doing at the time. She felt so bad about herself she lowered herself to dating a married man! She knew he was married. God knows what lies he told her! I felt sorry for her, however she was still a cheating trollop! She made a choice and so did he. And so did I at the time.
    All of them wrong. I was only 26 years old I think. Very young, very insecure and very stupid. A goddess in the making. I would never date a married man. I at least had that much self esteem. I did not judge her. I was hurt and angry and betrayed. He had Momma issues and his own shit to deal with. to this day he is married to a women who is very small in the self esteem department so that he can be “the big man” it is amusing to me and his way is sooooooooooo boring to me these days. I have come a looooong way since those days.



  13.  #13heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Turtle Girl – this business of ‘choices’ feels very interesting to me – it’s the third time in recent weeks I’ve felt my attention drawn. I feel alert in a calm way when I ask myself, objectively, ‘what choices are being made here?’ Not just by me, but by him too. Great cure for doubt!!



  14.  #14Daria on March 6, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    I feel glad TG
    I feel glad that you feel better and you made it outta there an feeling good now.

    I feel triggered like I’m caught on a meat hook.

    regarding: unless she was the married one she was not cheating. and trollop feels bad. But trollop goddess feels fun !

    i feel confused how you did not judge her but you call her a trollop … rather than a woman . I feel tightened up in my tummy

    I feel afraid!

    I feel like a puddle.

    I feel angry for feeling afraid.



  15.  #15heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Off to sleep now sirens xxxxxxxxx



  16.  #16Linda on March 6, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Turtle Girl… I love the strenght and candor with which you write. I think like that. My boy thinks and talks to me just like that. I feel in good company.

    Linda



  17.  #17Linda on March 6, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Heartbeat …. there is no judgement here. I was very afraid of telling my story and hearing Hey.. this is S, what did you expect. I did not get that I feel glad about that. Really glad.

    Linda



  18.  #18Rori Raye on March 6, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Beth – RAH RAH BETH!!! We’ll cheerlead you on! You’re doing great – just keep listening to Toxic Men – there are scripts there for you to use for Power Speeches – and start writing them for yourself…Love,Rori



  19.  #19Georgia on March 6, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    She’s now discovering she’s feeling a strong attraction to and bond with another man – who’s perhaps more honorable and deserving. She’s discovering that forgiveness doesn’t mean she really, truly wants to go back to married life with her husband. She has instincts to move past that and move on to something new, that doesn’t have all those painful memories and doubts. She’s discovering she doesn’t HAVE to get all that back. It’s not required.

    Rori thats ME !! This is how i feel now. I can’t share my love with him. all I do now is keep recieving from him because of worthy but not love, Is this a healthy relationship? I am longing for True Love and I know its not him. sometimes I feel scared he will give up or get mad. is this call selfish? I need him but I don’t love him. I feel safe with him and yet feel empty.

    He loves me, caring, fullfill my physical needs (money etc). Will I feel regret leaving him because of no love? grrr i feel confused sometimes 😀

    should I give him a chance or leave? This is a very big decision for me. and I cant find any reason to leave him except for love things.
    I feel so lonely sometimes. I can’t picture him in my mind, heart.



  20.  #20Georgia on March 6, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    he was an abusive but never cheat on me. now he loves me shower me with care. I feel scared I will regret of leaving him.

    I feel scared my new partner – loves me adore me, we love each other. but in the end he cheat on me with another girl.
    cos i’ve seen many men cheating on their marriage.

    so cheating or abusive. I don’t want both arrgh 😀



  21.  #21Georgia on March 6, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    oops I didn’t mean to put laugh icon. because I feel sad now 🙁



  22.  #22Soignée on March 7, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Dear Sirens,

    I remember the time I was in the clue of my pain when heartbroken with my ex. I did not know about this site. I was at another site and found a great friend- a woman with an amazing story. She is a beatiful woman like an Arabian princess. She came from a poor family without any support from the family, got pregnant at 16, had to struggle most of her life. I noticed her because of beautiful posts, full of humor, wise advice and we got in touch. She , after that, got married to an Arab sheikh, also. The truest truth, really, a real fairy tale from life.
    What I got from her like a message. She was always very much working on her, she worked for her success, she worked on her personality, on her aspect, she changed for the very best version of herself, she is similar to Aishwaria Rai, a kind of Scheherazade. So she gave me an advice:

    The woman with a high self-esteem choose the partner very long and well, they do not give themselves away for free, their trust has to be deserved. Please go out as much as you can (circular dating), fell yourself a light butterfly. And if a man causes you pain, please remove him completely from your life”.

    Remove a person who caused me pain completely from my life? remove completely – it was a new insight for me. I was such a”good girl” who loved for a sake of love, I was surprised about the conceipt of removing negative people from my life. I do not know why but I could not finish completely the contact to people who were important for me in the past. I believed I had to continue to love them, if the relationship was over. And I did not understand how to remove the people from my life,the people I once loved. I had such a kind of angelic, innocent love, love for love.

    But it helped me. I broke the habit of being attached to somthing and someone who causes me pain.
    So my love feelings from that point on, they are not connected anymore with the pain feelings.
    I can not have pain+love togther. When pain enters, my love stops. Or love lives in my heart, or pain, they are not mixed for me. They can not be together.

    Love and pain are two separated things for me.
    It was a new tool what changed everything.



  23.  #23Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 8:05 am

    My trollop goddess is still a trollop. Here’s why. Maybe she wasn’t “cheating” because she herself was not married-she still in full knowledge made a choice to be with and contribute to a married man’s cheating. That is crappy. A very hurtful choice for 1) herself 2) Him and 3)Me

    She put herself in a position to be hurt and hurt others. It is not OK to to that. Single or no. It is a choice made by a woman who has little regard for herself or others. A choice made out of fear. And fear always screws us every time.



  24.  #24Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 8:10 am

    Wow soignee-

    ON the one hand I can understand what you mean and yet I feel it is quite impossible to go through live without pain from other people. No one is perfect. Somewhere sometime they will, however intending to or not cause you pain. I just had a pow wow with my best friend and she caused me pain and I did her, but because we love each other we worked through it and now we are closer in spite of the pain or maybe because of it.

    I don’t know if removing all from my live who cause pain is even realistically possible. How could that be?



  25.  #25Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Linda-

    I appreciate your kind words. I don’t have any shortage of boy energy.. It’s the girl energy I need to work on! Lol!



  26.  #26Linda on March 7, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Ok…if this was church I would stand up and yell a hearty AMEN! I just stumbeled my way thru this.I feel affirmed because of what I read from ROri here. I can say been there just dont that!

    First was my discovery and then I was grieved on lots of levels. Next did come the denial, numbness. I did stop feeling because it was too intense and I needed the pain to stop. I did not realize it but the next step was all about me. I did not know it but what I was doing but I chose to let it ride, leave things alone. As I waded thru all my feelings and facts… I confronted him on being online, which he denied saying he did not know how it got there LOL… and I delivered boundry laying a speech. Waiting to see if it was responded to… I continued as normal…. but what I was doing was discovering how I really felt. It was all about ME and how I felt and if I wanted to be with him or not.

    I started out trying to figure out his stuff, even trying to work out plans in my head to fix things…I realized I was off my bridge and that was his stuff not mine… I quickly became exhausted and began to ask me… What is this about really? Do you want to be with this kind of man? Do you respect him, trust him? Does he give you what you need or want? Of course all of the answers were NO. Lots of the good loving giving feelings I had for him were choaked out by all that had transpired. I fought it but came to except the truth that I could never really trust or place a real committed confidence in him. The cold hard truth of reality… I did not want to be with someone like this for the long haul let alone marry him. I totally had to take a big step backward walk away. Telling him… “I dont want you in my life” surprised me when I heard my self speak, I had not planned to say it but that was the deep truth of it.

    At first I did not HAVE to do anything, but as I worked thru…. I then HAD to. When we love ourselves….when settleing is NOT acceptable then we HAVE to do something. I keep reminding myself.. Linda, dont choose pain, if it comes thru a choice then you can deal with that but dont knowling choose it.

    Linda



  27.  #27Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Heartbeat-

    This question about choices is very interesting. Recently I had this come up in a book I was reading. There was something to me that was very profound.

    It is a historical fiction novel and about this women who falls through a cleft in a standing circle rock formation in England and goes back to 1743 Scotland.
    The whole novel is about her adventures and her choices. When she comes back to the present she is talking about how for years she searched for answers, answers answers to all the questions she had. What if she had done this-what if she had done that. Always she searched for the answer.

    Finally she realized that there ARE NO ANSWERS. To anything. There is only CHOICES. It occurred to me that is exactly what is going on here with the sirens and the men. We work ourselves into a tizzy because we want answers-why did he do that? what is he thinking? blah blah blah etc etc etc. And there are no answers, only our choices about what we do or do not do. It just hit me up side a the head like a brick. Thought I would share that.

    By the way the book is called The Outlander series.
    There are about 7 of them. Totally awesome read.



  28.  #28Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Wow Linda-

    Yes! Amen! Your post is exactly what I did with ex toxic man. I realized the pain was not what I wanted. He was not what I wanted. I tried (in denial) to separate him from his behavior kidding myself that he was someone else-but of course he was exactly how he behaved.

    I could not trust him because I did not feel safe with him (emotionally) he had proved to me that he disregarded and disrespected and judged my feelings as being wrong. Rori says you can’t argue with feelings, but he sure did. I could never be myself around him as a result. And THAT is a horrible way to live. My friend told me that in order for me to be with him, I would have to eat my feelings. Truer words were never spoken.



  29.  #29Linda on March 7, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Georgia

    I have restled with the very thing you have posted. It is this way with my ex husband. There are things I could fall back into with him because he offers security and the things that you wrote. Seeing where I am today and still being alone causes me pause and I question did I do the right thing? I was desperately lonely with him and that is what caused me to leave. He never cheated was loyal, secure… all the things a husband should be by textbook but there was no passion.

    I had passion and a relationship with a man 2 years ago that was so deeply satisfying. I was never so happy in my life… But he left and cheated too.

    I think only you can answer your question. Look deep inside. What do you find most valuable? What means the most to you. I had to answer myself and after the things I have gone thru with men I sometimes think… man…is this pain really worth it?…I question if I did the right thing too.

    THis post includes the story of the TV show the good wife. I think I have discovered that I can have feeling like she does for her ex (or whatever he is to her now) and not have all the rest of the other stuff that is bad. Giving herself freedom and a choice. I like that. I like that alot.

    Maybe you can answer your question. Dont do anything right now. Open up and feel, weigh out what is important to you.

    Hugs… Linda



  30.  #30Beth on March 7, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Rori, thank you for your cheers, I have so many toxic trained and life themes going on here, and even though I feel I have a ways to go, I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it FEELS GOOD!!
    Linda, Turtle Girl, Heartbeat, thank you for your open and honest posts, when I read them it feels like you must have found a way into my head and heart because your stories sound so painfully familiar.
    I am still learning to express myself and to even listen to my feelings. For so long I have allowed myself to believe how I felt wasn’t important and that my job was to make sure everyone else was happy.
    Linda, I am scared to say the words out loud that I need to say to him, but I know I will eventually be able to tell him that “Being around him feels awful, and I don’t want him in my life.” It scares me to even type it, but I feel safe in this forum, so thank you again Ladies for your help and encouragement!



  31.  #31Nita on March 7, 2010 at 9:19 am

    how does one start a conversation about feelings with someone who im not in a serious relationship with yet? im just paranoid…here are my subconscious negative thoughts about this: what if he thinks im strange because im making him so important for talking about my feelings when im upset, we are just getting to know each other, what if he figures out that i think about him too much (my own complex because its true) and is also weirded out, what if when i express my feelings or share that i feel a certain way about him he is turned off because its forward? im confused any advice would be helpful



  32.  #32Linda on March 7, 2010 at 9:20 am

    WOW are we on the same wave length here to day or what! I had not even read Soingee’s post where she talks about pain. WOW…. sure there is gonna be pain in our life, it is unavoidable but, knowingly choosing it is quite another.

    Lets say we really love someone who causes us pain. Staying is not loving him or ourselves. We settled nd loose and they are not given an opportunity or reason to grow or improve. That is a loose loose situation.

    We have choices lots of them. Learning and feeling our way thru how to make the ones that serve us best and help us be the best versions of ourselves can be a process of trial and error but… the key is the that we are trying and going thru the process.

    Linda



  33.  #33Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Nita-

    The clue is this-you are worried about what HE is thinking. Everything in your post is about him. Whether what you will be feeling will be OK with HIM.n His reaction to you.
    No. No. and No. This is about you, not him.



  34.  #34Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Gotta run sirens-I have an art show today!
    All my xxoo.



  35.  #35Linda on March 7, 2010 at 9:44 am

    I love the title of this post…. Do you still want him after HE did this. I even like the yellow square around the guy in the pictures mouth. It is a very inviting picture. The picture gives me the feeling of ICK…

    The answer for me is. NO I DO NOT STILL WANT HIM AFTER HE DID THIS.

    THere I feel much better. I feel much better in lots of ways. LOTS of ways.

    Nita… may I suggest that you go look in the mirror and paint yourself with love. Say nice thing to yourself, ponder the things you like about you…Our journey starts with self love. This is the key that opens the door to our freedom and getting the relationships that we want, speaking what we need to speak and doing what we need to do in our lives so that we can make a path for it to come to us.

    Turtle Girl is right… it is about us.. not them.

    Linda



  36.  #36Linda on March 7, 2010 at 9:48 am

    I meant to type “the picture ISNT a very inviting picture.”

    It is like he has had his mouth somewhere gross and I dont to near it… even remotely close at all. Not even wanna look at it. EWE

    Out of the mouth, the heart flows….



  37.  #37Daria on March 7, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Omg i jsut found this Rori post! It’s chock full of stuff!:

    “Shee – What I know first and foremost is that if you have these strong feelings that you don’t want to be a girlfriend all your life, but that’s what it feels like to you day after day, and you don’t say anything about it to him and clear the air directly…you will create tension and distance and disruption in the relationship. The key to everything is speaking the truth. “Sweetie, somethings bothering me, and I hate to even talk about it, because I feel so good with you…and it’s important to me that we’re just honest with each other and don’t let things get stuffed down…is now a good time to talk?” If he says “Yes” – then go with…”Once you said you would never marry again, I’m not sure how you feel about living together…have your feelings changed at all about this?” Now stop and let him talk. Next – “I’m asking because I realize I don’t want to be a girlfriend all the rest of my life – even though being your girlfriend feels so great, I’m concerned that after a while, I’ll start to feel insecure and want to feel more solid…what do you think I should do?” Let him talk. You can always ask him…”I don’t want to be putting pressure on you…do you want me to date other men so that there’s less pressure as we go along?” — Basically this is the “No Girlfriend” speech – but with a lot more “air” and expressiveness and exploration in it – and allowing him to get involved in the discussion. Love, Rori”



  38.  #38Daria on March 7, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Rori – can we get a sample “round 2” answers for this?

    ex. what if he says its not a good time to talk, or like rolls his eyes or something… i know we make an appt… but words would be helpful

    ex2 – he says no my feelings have not changed…

    what do we say now?

    ex 3 – he says wtf are you saying??? of course i dont want you to date more men!

    what do we say now?

    I’m especially curious about this one…

    cuz i find mysalef feelking defensive and wanting to say BUT i dont’ want to be a girfriend, so i WILL date more men… and it seems like it’s coming out like im trapping him or something with a decision i’ve already made

    any other insights?



  39.  #39Jennifer on March 7, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I hope the pining can stop. this sucks.
    I feel so worried that the pining is my feelings telling me I’ve made the worst mistake of my life. That I should really be with B.
    My brother says mabe when he says stuff i don’t like it’s because it’s just not what I want to hear.
    But my brother also says he’s a douche bag.
    I just feel so alone.
    I feel like maybe I should just start a porceline figurine collection and get a small yappy dog and give up on the idea that I could get a real love and all that it entails.
    Or go back to B and move to his base and just suck it up.



  40.  #40Linmayu on March 7, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    I feel my head swimming. I feel confused. I feel like I was swimming in the ocean for years and just now came up for air.

    I feel like I’m still a little girl who’s not ready to be in a sexual relationship. I feel hurt because I have NOT ever been attracted to men, but to little boys. Little boys who called me names, kicked sand in my face on the playground, or just ignored me and played with their Spiderman action figures.

    I feel ready to engage with men in the world, but not sexually. Not as a woman. I feel very protective of my innocence.

    And NO, I do not still want him after he did that. I want someone who has some of his qualities, who makes me feel the way he did, AND who has enough of a heart and enough integrity to NEVER do that to me.

    I feel angry at me for having put myself there to be treated that way.



  41.  #41Daria on March 7, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Jennifer… you could experiment with starting the porcelain collection and get a yapping dog and see how long until you get bored!!

    and the men start showing up!

    Actually I feel delighted by the idea of the porcelain collection hehe so that would feel fun to me for you to start it! maybe having some humor with the universe this way hehehe



  42.  #42Tina on March 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Nita, that is what circular dating is about, for you to use feelings messages on men you are not in a serious relationship with , for practice. It does get easier to speak in the language of feelings once you start. The guy you are dating is a perfect example for you to use feelings messages. Try writing it out on paper first if you have too.



  43.  #43Nita on March 7, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Thank you Linda:) i have been thinking about this alot lately especially listening to Modern Siren. Its about loving ourselves, and naturally we will express ourselves better and honoring our feelings, and bringing the right kind of love along the way. i guess im just still struggling with this, and also with expressing my emotions. its really hard but i will work on it and also on loving myself.



  44.  #44Tina on March 7, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Jennifer, the pining away feelings do slow down. I have to drive by my 11/2 year mans house everyday on my way out of town. My heart would feel racing, will I see him? will he see me? it’s such a small town , I am amazed that the amount of times we did see each other, like I think twice lol. I actually thought the other day that we could be friends OMG! I would not consider it unless he approached me first though.



  45.  #45Linda on March 7, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I am thinking thinking thinking way too much.

    I fell asleep this afternoon, all curled up on the sofa in the sun like a cat. I was remembering last Sunday when I was at church with S I was so heavily burdened with what was going on in my life. I was praying, as I often do, i.e. being thankful and again laying this whole thing that I have been thru with S in His hands. I want to be free totally from any hope or subscious thought that S this will all change he and I will be together someday. I had a dream. I have had it before. The dream bothers me……. I am standing in the corner of the loft area at S’s condo. He is sitting in his black pajamas, slumped down in his big chair, his eyes glazed over, hand upon his brow . The remote is in his hand and the TV is on. The lights are out the is only the blinking glow of the TV. I never say a word in the dream, I just observing. I noticed that I felt, a head shaking pity for that sorrowful sight. Then I extend my hand toward him and just stand stationary. He gets up and joins his hand in mine. THen I wake up.

    I cried typing this. I feel like I betraying myself and still will invite pain into my life. There is one thing that I failed to mention. I had this dream before we went to florida in mid february. He had some black pjs in the dream that I had never seen on him. Anyway when I went to get the car on Tuesday he had those pjs on!…. I was really shocked. It almost made me loose my breath. I did not know he had PJs like that.

    I am not asking for an interpretation here just sharing my experience….. I am seeking rest and peace. My decision to do what I did in light of everything I knew and learned would be the same. This dream does stir me up in an opposite way than I hoped.

    Hugs.. . Linda



  46.  #46Tina on March 7, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Heartbeat, I liked your story, these kinds of situations would happen with my ex husband all the but mainly with his ex wife. I felt I was not his priority. “Our” priority was his ex and her feelings. I really dont know if anything could have helped me back then, I didnt have Rori 🙂 had I found her I might not have married or stayed so long and be in debt 🙂 I was coming out of a shop, buying myself new bras and panties and there he was walking pass me on my way out, he said hi, I said hi, then I looked and his latest “girlfriend” is almost running trying to catch up to him, he didnt seem to notice her at all! I felt bad for her, because he would have never gotten away with that with me. It was always a struggle to be treated fairly as far as my feelings were concerned. He just didnt have it in him. The way I handled it could have been better thats for sure but not the response I got from him which was usually anger /rage at my feelings ugh!



  47.  #47Tina on March 7, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Linda, I had a dream I was driving in an army vehicle of some sort maybe a jeep or tank hehe, I was on my way to the firing range, I looked over at the other target practice site and there was Charlies Angels lol, I blinked my eyes and said wow and when I looked closer I noticed they werent really charlies angels practicing on the firing range either women dressed up or men in drag lol, I couldnt really tell but Im sure they were women lol, anyway I was laying in the front seat , drapped across the seats, with my back up and my face looking up and there stood Robert Redford ! hehe , he kissed me oh my god, lol I was thinking wow I feel all warm and fuzzy being kissed by Robert Redford, while I was laying on the front seat of the vehicle, it was an upside down kiss for me. All this happened while I was waiting for the trainer to come with my gun lol.



  48.  #48Tina on March 7, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    it was like when I was laying there , the doors wide open, a shadow just popped up blocking the sun and he leaned in the door and kissed me laying there upside down. just like a movie 🙂



  49.  #49tinque on March 7, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Linmayu – It’s been a long time. I’ve missed you. I don’t know why this has been coming up over and over again, but I want to keep saying that the waters get murky, and then they clear.
    They seem to be clearing for you. You are cleansed and innocent, maybe ready to test the waters again.
    Hugs,
    xxoo



  50.  #50Tina on March 7, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I dont know if I could be as cool as Pam, handling her situation. I’m sure something would have gone flying or broken. This is how I Feel then smash. I dont want to attract these kinds of men in my life. I hope Pam, you decide to break the wedding off 🙂 he did continue to do this even after he proposed so yeah. I understand your grief and loss over it.



  51.  #51Lisa on March 7, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Ouch I feel triggered big time for the first time in ages on this subject. My fiance ( at the time) left me 18mths ago after 3 mths of back and forth with him contacting this ex-girlfriend and playing around with other girls etc saying he didn’t want to be tied down and get married. prior to that had been the happiest closest few mths of our relationship I really thought he loved me – we had been together 5 years i thought he was my soul mate.

    i did EVERYTHING that Rori teaches us to work through in a totally different way. i went into trauma i got bitter defensive, I begged, I ached , I cried, I told HIM how HE felt and refused to believe it was happening. I became a very fragile breakable version of my self and literally fell apart, it was horrible, He got aggresive and nasty and also wouldn’t ‘let’ me go by having horrible arguments with me telling me he thought he wanted to be with her coz she was “simple” and I was “intense” but then throwing in the middle of the argument (* while still screaming at me!!) “don’t go don’t leave me” – it was horrible – like watching a road accident or something, makes you sick and you can’t turn away.

    I have built myself back up again , sat inside every emotion I ever thought possible, felt it all, pushed nothing away saw it all for its ugliness and beauty!!! full on year!!!!! then slowly slowly started dating again, spoke to guy friends, watched what triggered myself into certain patterns, wrote down my patterns, acknowleged them and thanked them – journey processed everything, spoke to my ex with detachment, read rori’s stuff ( thank god for rori!!! yeah!!!!!) and got to work on it all using my boy energy. Now am relaxing into my’ girl’ and exploring how i feel about these dates.etc!!!

    I wrote on another post about these dates and there is this one guy that is pursusing me and says he feels a connection with me (same birth month and star sign as my ex, same music and hobbies tastes etc !!!!weird – but looks wise totally different) and he is sweet and kind and attentive and I am keeping up with the circular dating but he is definitely capturing most of my attention because he is always there with the offer of dinner and taking me out and sweet text msgs etc. It triggers me because I look at him and think – but your not as good looking ( judgement judgement juegement) and so sweet and nice compared to other guys I date, could I really marry someone like that that is the bottom line question isn’t it – then i think jesus do i really want to be treated mean my whole life just to keep me on my toes!!!! what’s up with that??? so what if he is not brad pitt!! He tells me I am beautiful and he is so attracted to me and i don’t know what to say so I say nothing, i want to be honest but i don’t want to be mean and hurt his feelings and i do like spending time with him, what to say – I know we are supposed to stay with our feelings but oh my god sounds like this – ” I like you but i feel weird because I am not as attracted to you as you are to me because I look at you and you are no what i would think my handsome prince will look like….” how mean! i hate feeling mean! so I keep dating other men and i think he knows but hasn’t said anything yet – i did give him the no girlfriend speech and made it clear i was keeping my options open and he is TOTALLY ok with it!!??(*%$!!! i am so used to guys that blow up!! I don’t know what to say and i don’t know what to do, i think I won’t let myself feel the connection because i am afraid of hurting him like i have been hurt- wow there you go I said it!!!!!!! I kissed him and it was actually nice – it felt good I was shocked. aaagghhh what to do!!! I guess I just keep going as Rori says and using the tools. anyone in a similar situation???
    ox



  52.  #52Georgia on March 7, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Linda – Thanks for your sharing, its very helpful 🙂
    I think I know the answer. Open up and feel, don’t make any decision first.

    I hope all is well and everything is going good for you …God Bless



  53.  #53Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    I feel triggered somewhere between “going numb” and “losing feeling for him.” Panic and insecurity , I think Wonder Woman said something about feeling ocd about trying to find out more or catch him in a lie. I feel the same way, and why would I do that? I dunno. For me , I guess it’s because the facts dont add up, his version of events simply dont add up. Do I need the facts to add up so bad? do I need to dig? Do I have a “talk” then walk? Do I need just one more slap in the face, the final slap, concidering I love, love to beat myself up, for it to make sense. I did this with my ex a lot.



  54.  #54Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    My intuition says there is something happening, I cant make logical sense out of it, I go digging for more facts hm. Ok, so I then say , I’ll “talk” like Rori suggests, the questions are good, not defensive, not punishing the he does the BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLABLAH! He slams, kick things around, yells some more, I cry, go numb or whatever, keep quite for fear of more verbal abuse. He then says, your ignoring me blah blah blah, I say no, I’m not, I just dont want more verbal abuse, he says something like VERBAL ABUSE? YOU DONT KNOW WHAT VERBAL ABUSE IS! I say , you mean this could get much worse? wow! Am I feeling calm or going numb? ugh! This would go on for five looooooooooooooooong years.



  55.  #55Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Ok, so I didnt know Rori Ray tools back then but still! I would do my best to ok maybe I was EXPLAINING and not in my feelings. Fck him anyway he is gone lol.



  56.  #56Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    This is what happened one time, some woman called, I cant remember who know lol, but I was feeling jealous, I said to him, I want you to tell her to stop calling you,, I want you to do it in front of me, he did, and this is exactly what he said, uh hey so and so, my wife wants you to stop calling me,not him to stop but his wife. Pam, I hope you dump his ass, he deserves it!



  57.  #57Rachel on March 7, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Wow… I really feel lonely and sad tonight.



  58.  #58Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    I feel furious , I feel furious at treating myself this way. I feel rage, grrrrrrrrr. I love my feelings of rage 🙂 I want to give my rage a big hug – big hugs rage.



  59.  #59Tina on March 7, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Rachel, give yourself a big hug, hug your sad and lonely girl energy 🙂 I’m hugging my rage, my rage is squirming away, my rage is like a fire, try hugging a fire , a big OUCH!



  60.  #60Tina on March 7, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I’m embarressed to look back and see how I treated myself -red face 🙂 . If i watched one of my female friends do that, I might give her a shake. Was I satisfied that he did call back in front of me? no, I wasn’t. I felt more humiliated at the not so sincere attempt he made. I did get want I wanted, didnt I? proof that he loved me? that he cared? good grief – more red face 🙂



  61.  #61Lisa on March 7, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Tina – I hear you…. gosh that reminds me of myself …..thinking how did i back myself into this corner!!! him screaming at me and me saying no more no more verbal abuse I can’t take it I just want these insecure feelings and hurt to go away and for you to treat me with kindness and yet I kept going back for more!! like you tina I look back and think “how on god’s earth could i allow that kind of abuse towards myself ” and i thought that was LOVE!!!!!! crumbs it was crumbs i was a crumb taker !!!!!!!yippee !!!!!!!!



  62.  #62Bliss on March 7, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Wow, i have just come across this Post.

    Heart Beat – reading your story, allot of what he was doing to you and saying was like reading about my life.

    I hear this all the time.

    “he keeps all his friends separate from one another, he feels a deep-seated fear when ‘worlds overlap’ ”

    He has some many friends male and FEMALE, that he hangs with and goes to their places for dinners,
    he goes to parties, engagement , work functions, weddings , christianings – I am never invited.

    I am not allowed to meet these people.

    I have even had one of his woman friends turn up at MY house, when we were separated, he was seeing the kids, his access day, she wanted to talk. I had just gotten home, and knock on the door, He got it, and never came back inside.

    I went out to see if all was ok. and there was this Young gorgeous Blonde on my front door step.

    OMG – the feeling were just raging. they still do but i am getting better at controlling them..

    One thing i did notice happen, cause i walk out that night at saw her, asked who she was – he does not hang with her anymore, he can’t handle the worlds colliding, so he moves on and gets new ones..

    I do keep going back , why i do not know,.



  63.  #63heartbeat on March 8, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Whoa Tina & Bliss – thanks for sharing your stories. I feel relieved I got out when I did. I feel your pain, literally – reading your stories I feel that grinding stomach and shaky knees.

    I didn’t get any verbal abuse – though occasional sarcasm felt like it. Last in-depth conversation we had was at new year, I kept to my side totally, he was the one feeling most of the fear and panic. It felt chaotic in a good way, like the soil being tilled.

    Right now I feel light and free, though a little shaken still from reading your stories. I love being single, I love clearing out my wardrobe and changing my hair and planning my trip away. I’m happy on my own for now, I’m not looking for anyone.

    And we all know what will probably happen next lol….!!

    xxxx



  64.  #64heartbeat on March 8, 2010 at 1:17 am

    Linmayu – !! 🙂 🙂

    Daria thanks for reposting that piece from Rori.

    Rachel I’m standing next to Tina saying the same thing – and a hug from me too xx

    Wow this blog is amazing, some deeply honest sharing going on. And I feel relieved to be sharing my story too. Thank you.

    Off to work now – 9am.



  65.  #65heartbeat on March 8, 2010 at 1:24 am

    Oh yes I nearly forgot to post this – what IS that business of compartmentalizing friends about?????

    I can kind of get it with guy friends, but female friends and not being invited to meet them, even at events…. well that just feels awful.

    I feel puzzled – I see friends as an extension of the circles around me, some circles farther out, some close. Some friends become an extended family.

    A girlfriend at work was in the middle of telling me how she used to be like that, and her new husband felt upset and excluded, then someone came into the room so she couldn’t finish the story. But I’ll ask her.

    I feel curious, yet a lot of me thinks ‘so what?’…. it’s only my business to know what feels good to me.

    Rori – what do you think? xx



  66.  #66Jennifer on March 8, 2010 at 3:44 am

    This business of “separate worlds overlapping” and teh great lengths men go to keep it from happening sounds very familiar to me.
    B is on facebook. He refused to add me when we were together and still refuses to add his sister or brother in law or aunt.
    We have argued about this in the past. Bitterly. He swears up and down that it’s only for his military buddies. He wouldn’t add me cause he said that there were a few girls on there and i would have been jealous.

    Well….really. I would never have been suspicious or jealous if he hadn’t spent our 6 years together hiding from me.
    I have explained that over and over. I think he intentionally doesn’t get it.
    The idea that he wouldn’t add his sister bothers me too.
    His sister has a developmental delay. It’s more social than academic. She is a lovely woman, very sweet and kind and friendly. Sometimes too much…she’d give away her last dollar.
    He refuses to add her on facebook, which breaks her heart. She doesn’t understand it. He spends most of the times they are together judging her for her wieght and dirty house and perilous financial situations….she feels this. I tried to explain to him that she is looking for a way to be a part of his life. But he doesn’t seem to care.
    His aunt as well had tried to add him. She loves him to bits, drove 6 hours to see him graduate from Bascic training etc.
    I have explained to him that having an account on FB is like saying “I choose to socialize in this way” and not adding people is like saying “I Choose to socialize this way..but not with you” it’s a form of rejection. Especially to people who love you.
    He claims to not understand that. I think he’s full of shit. I think he gets it…he just doesn’t care.
    I think somewhere along the line we should all be forced to attend social ettiquite school.
    When someone loves you…that’s a big respeonsibility on your part. That person is very vunerable to you.
    I would absolutely DIE to think that I had treated someone so coldly who was so close to me. Really. I would feel very bad for along time.
    B’s sister isn’t my sister in law anymore but I still go to the house and see her boys…I went on sat and took her a cup of coffee for her birthday. I helped her tidy up etc.
    I don’t understand being so cold to someone who loves you.
    Maybe the differnce is in the way we were raised. B’s mother says anything he does is ok .
    My mother would kick my ass for being so mean to my sister. And I’m 32. I would totally expect the smack down.
    I’m rambling.
    Ahhh well…..happy monday.



  67.  #67Linda on March 8, 2010 at 4:21 am

    I spent the evening with my male friend that I was close to at work. I do not work at the same facility anymore and I dont see him much. He knows everything from start to finish that has happened with S and me. He brought me some food he had cooked and we sat and talked and watched a movie. It felt good to just be in a comfy place with a safe friend.

    He is a good friend. He called to check on me. (he knew that I broke things off with S). Wow what a breath of fresh air. My ex husband even called this week end. Tax time you know. Anyway, he asked if I was ok? wow. I must be sending out some subliminal blip.

    I watched the movie “The book of ELI” with my friend. It is a movie of a man moved and living by faith and not by sight. Denzel Washington is Eli…. I just cried. The only reason I went back with S after all the crap last year is because of things that I felt deeply inside me. Things of faith and not sight. Things that I felt were spoken to me, just like this movie… I am deeply deeply sorrowful this morning that things are as they are between S and I. I feel failure and yet I feel peace too. I JUST DONT GET IT!

    All the things I have learned here. All the wonder affirmation and support I have gotten. So many thinks make sense to me. I cant live with things the way they were. I guess there is a part of me that still separates the person from the behavior, believing for change and restoration. Then there is that dream I have had twice. It really stirred my resolve and raised doubt in my heart.

    My friend said that I deserve the best. He told meys that I am a beautiful sexy woman, that has her life together. He said to me… I would give anything for a woman to love me like you love S…S is such a foolish man.

    I was remarkable moved by the movie. In one of the scenes, Eli (Denzel) is explaining to a woman what the world was like before the war. He siad… the people were greedy and more than they needed. They were never satisfied…They threw away things that people kill each other for today.

    I feel like one of those things that was thrown away by S. All of our circumstances could change in a blink of an eye. We could be instantly disabled or win the lottery or our world as we know it could colaspse from an earthquake etc. How shallow we are at times. Looks, selfish gain, cars, homes, things,… they will all fade, what is important is the heart of a man/woman.

    I feel like ROri is investing in the hearts so we become better women. We can raise our standards of how we are treated in turn cause the caliber and quality of men to increase… WE can then take it on to inspire others by our relationships.

    I feel very melancholy today. Feeling my way thru things. I am glad it is not busy at work this morning, I am just not in work mode this morning.

    Hugs… Linda



  68.  #68Linda on March 8, 2010 at 7:03 am

    In my attempt to direct my thinking, not stay melancholy all day… I am thinking I am feeling thankful that I have experienced the “I dont wants” and “I wont accept this”… so I could draw and strengthen then eforce my boundries. I think I am better equipped now to be more and motivate success in my next relationship.

    Linda



  69.  #69Rachel on March 8, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Linda,

    Nothing is wasted! Every word and act of love that you have sown will bring a harvest. It’s just that we often expect to reap in the same field in which we’ve sown and it doesn’t always work out that way. But God and the universe have not forgotten… and you will reap!

    The way I look at it … each day (no matter how painful, lonely or long) brings me one day closer to living my dream.

    Our “job” is to keep learning, growing and becoming so that we’re ready to receive the incredible love that is headed our way!

    Thank you for my hug. I send one back … a nice warm sunny one!



  70.  #70Daria on March 8, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Jennifer –

    regarding facebook. I don’t feel safe having some of my friends and family read my personal stuff.

    For example: how would you feel if your friends and family were reading your posts here?

    For me, yes I am trying to open more and more, but it feels safer with babysteps.

    Having everyone i already know read this i would feel scared to open up as much as I do… though eventually I want to feel happy with everyone reading it too…



  71.  #71Jennifer on March 8, 2010 at 8:38 am

    hey Daria….I get what you are saying.
    For me FB is “for public consumption” so what I say and do there is what i would say and do at say a family bbq or even at work. The pics are all G rated, the statuses are not too personal etc.
    This forum is much deeper. This forum, for me, is the personal spot. Rantings, musings etc. This is where I sort of collect my ideas to be put out into the world.
    I don’t think I would have had an issue with B’s FB (its none of my business really) if it hadn’t been so hurtful to the people who love him and hadn’t been a symptom of a greater inability to be empathetic.
    I guess I just feel that a more respectful (of other people’s feelings) attitude was called for there from him. He feels he needs privacy in this one area….but doesn’t compensate in other ways.
    Like…don’t add your sister on FB…great. But make some other effort to involve yourself in her life so she feels a connection to you. Call her on her birthday….email her. Take her out for coffee….
    Do you see what I’m saying?
    It’s all a moot point really. I left him. I guess I’m still in the “I need answers” phase.
    Like I don’t understand how all my efforts were for naught.
    I still feel alot of grief.
    I asked my brother last night….what if he was the one?
    My brother laughed hysterically. But I still feel the impact of that question….deep in my chest. It’s scary.



  72.  #72Pam on March 8, 2010 at 8:40 am

    You are all so amazing! I feel so grounded after reading these posts. My post has some missing pieces that I wanted to share. I discovered that my guy was active on the dating website 8 days after he proposed on Christmas Day when we were in N. Carolina visiting my brother. He had gotten up early and jumped on his lap top in another room. When he was showering, I discovered the “history” option and saw that he was checking his inbox to a secret email acct. I was at first shocked and confused at what I saw. I really didn’t believe what I was seeing. I did not confront him right away as I wanted to investigae further. That’s when I found he was looking at profiles frequently in the weeks leading up to Christmas and the email he sent to a women in August (4 month prior). I then became quite angry and confronted him. I was actually shaking. He at first claimed it wasn’t true but then when I pulled up the history he then said he had tried to get off the site but couldn’t and he only looked for the “rush” blah blah blah. After reading Rori’s post – I realized I did go into Shock. It’s weird because this all happened after I had been using Rori’s tools which I belive led to the proposal (I was so excited how the tools were working!) and then the betrayal. I have since given the ring back and am now struggling with staying or opting out. I remember Rori saying in the Toxic Men’s series that it is so difficult to leave a man because it feels so tragic to us. I feel like a scared little girl. He knows how much he screwed up and gives me scraps of attention to keep me (I also remember how men will give only what they have to) and while I wish I felt he was now really into me, there is a part of me that just knows it’s not true. He has been getting really aggravated with me lately as I won’t “just let it go”. It infuriates me. He is the one that screwed up, not me. BUT having said all that, reading these posts is giving me the strength to try and sort out the difference between fantasy and reality in this relationship. This weekend I actually felt a little bit of that boredom feeling which was new for me. The key is in finding something to do that makes me feel good about myself. There have been days when my emotions kept me stuck – I couldn’t barely breathe let alone take myself out to dinner. But little by little I am finding what gives me joy and I know that that makes all the difference. Sorry that this is so long. I have such gratitude for all of you. Rori – do you offer any conference on the East Coast??? Thank you for your reply. It made such sense. I will have the conversation with the questions and let you know the results.



  73.  #73Daria on March 8, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Linda — I too believe that the PERSON IS SEPARATE FROM THE BEHAVIOR. This is why it’s important to say NO and not tolerate the behavior I don’t want. So i will not tolerate being close to someone while I’m treated badly. I still have love and kindness for them – kind of like Rori says about being bored and feeling kindness –

    I do not want to be in a romantic, close relationship with someone who is behaving badly. I reject the behavior, not the person – because I love the person. But to fully love them i am strong and reject their behavior. Clearly. Vehemently. Unremorsefully. And as I get stronger I’m able to do this more. I am doing this for their own healing as well as my own. I am sure of this, so I feel confident in my decision to babystep this path.

    That way the person that I “see” with my heart can clear out and heal and change their behavior.



  74.  #74Pam on March 8, 2010 at 8:46 am

    ps…..I tried yoga recently and it is the most amazing thing ever. I am now hooked. I am not “in shape” but after 3 weeks, my body is starting to feel stronger and the connection with the mind is powerful. I highly reccomend it to anyone struggling with feeling powerless. I thought it was cool to learn that some of the poses are called “warrior” poses. Love that!!



  75.  #75Pam on March 8, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Rori – you are most wise and caring and insightful and wonderful. Thank you.



  76.  #76Pam on March 8, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Beth – I am with you!!! Working on the same. Keep sharing……..



  77.  #77lm on March 8, 2010 at 8:58 am

    the same thing happened to me. my boyfriend was on an internet dating site a few days after he asked me to move in with him and right after i’d met his family (his previous girlfriend didn’t meet them for 5 years).

    the anger i had was intense, and it made me feel like there was something wrong with me, like i wasn’t enough or there was something lacking in our relationship. i felt like her loved me so much, was so into me emotionally, physically…it didn’t make any sense to me. at the time, i was too scared to have the sort of conversation rori writes about and i sat on my feelings for months. finally it came out after months of being depressed and angry and acting jealous and paranoid. his explanation was that he was insecure and angry because we’d been fighting at the time. he had been on the site before he met me. he was new to my city when we met, had no friends and had used the site in the past to meet people, none of whom he seriously dated or slept with. it was an old habit. i read the few messages he received (he never initiated anything) and had replied to and they were all very benign: talk about the weather, nothing interesting. and no contact offline. i now believe him, that it was an old pattern of his.

    now, months later, he’s talking about marriage and kids. he is very open with me and we see each other every day, so i know that there is nothing going on. but part of me will never feel the same way i used to about him. i’ve told him this, that the relationship was damaged because he betrayed us. but i feel better now. it made me get my own act together in a big way and to find a way to be happy with myself. i can walk away now, and i don’t know if i would have been able to without having caught him.



  78.  #78Simply Shannon on March 8, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Linda: Sending hugs to you.



  79.  #79Orna Walters on March 8, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Pam,

    Thank you for being so vulnerable. I can tell you from my own personal experience that in the past when I got into a place where I could simply ask the questions, listen to the answers I get, and then really look at the PERSON, that I could make a decision based on what is best for me and towards what I truly desire.

    Not sure if you know my history, I had an affair with a married man for many, many years. He left his wife for someone else in his “bull pen” not me. One of the greatest gifts I got was that when it didn’t work out with her and he showed up at my door, I did get to ask EVERYTHING. He was completely honest (I know because he said things that hurt to hear). I got to see who he REALLY was. I did not want him. It was so clear that he was not capable of giving me what I wanted.

    The clarity that you can get by simply listening to who this man is is priceless.

    I love that you are doing Yoga. You can also get a list of no-cost to low-cost “Inner Child Dates” here: http://creatingloveonpurpose.com/_blog/Free_Articles/post/Is_Your_Cup_Empty_or_Overflowing/

    These are great to really take care of You and discover what activities REFUEL You.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  80.  #80Pam on March 8, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Im – when you say ” you can walk away now”, is that because you ever feel like you want to? As much as I try and rationalize his behavior, I continue to feel just icky inside. I need to mention here that for the most part of our relationship, my guy was toxic. He was the cold, lack of affection man. It wasn’t until I started using the tools that things turned around (or at least I thought they did and even then it was intermittent.) I know I was doing all the wrong things. So while I am working on MY part, I struggle with the question – do I stay or do I leave? I wonder if my mistrust will ever go away. It’s such a slap in the face when a man does something like this. Also a question. When I discovered the site, I started to become obessive about checking his computer when he wasn’t around. I eventually did not like the person I was becoming so I stopped (it’s hard still to not look). Do you ever feel the urge to check his computer?



  81.  #81Tina on March 8, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Pam, I feel so excited to hear your journey through this period. I did too do yoga after my break up. Something about yoga,is very comforting, it kept me from smashing things hehe. I was angry for a long time, I think my anger contributed to my hormonal imbalance, I broke out with acne, I was on medication for it for three months yuk. I didnt find Rori until last year, almost three years later. I did the cold turkey method, meaning I cut off all ties and never looked back. I was hurting still, I was crushed, I was in financial debt, living in a converted hotel room for five months. I did circular date even though at the time I didnt know that is what it was called, circular dating, I dated mostly myself at the time. People admired my “strength” they would say things like , oh we gave you a few more weeks and you would be right back there. He even offered for us to go to councelling, our last councelling failed miserably. He would yell and stomp out. A lot of blame, nothing more came out of it.

    What I’m glad and feel happy for about is you bypassed the next five years with this guy.



  82.  #82Pam on March 8, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Orna – thank you! I love that website. I hope to be able to get to a place soon where I can have that conversation without the intense emotional feelings. I’m working on my feeling messages!



  83.  #83tinque on March 8, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Pam – I think all of us have done this or certainly wanted to. You’re right it’s a very bad habit. You can justify it by saying you have the right to know what’s going on which is true, BUT you also run the risk of finding things you may take out of context and hurt yourself unnecessarily.
    “Bad” things have a way of coming out eventually anyway. It’s not worth violating trust. It reinforces suspicions within you when there may be no reason for them. That never feels good.
    xxoo



  84.  #84Tina on March 8, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Then I met 1/1/2 year guy, he was more or less going along for the ride, we broke up in july after my “speech” hehe. This is when I discovered Rori Raye! I learned at first to walk like a Goddess 🙂 I thought, well damnit Tina , at least walk like a friggin Goddess, fake it til you make it. I was tired of being on this “going no where fast” journey, I want my journey to have a purpose. A delibrate and on purpose journey. 🙂



  85.  #85Linda on March 8, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thank you Rachel.. You are a kind hearted woman who must live on the same wave length as me. It is again wonderful to be reminded of things that I deeply believe in. I have lots of seeds that I have planted in various ways during the seasons of my life. I am VERY ready to reap. It has been a LONG time since I have felt blessed by my investments. THere have been lots of disappointments, lots of holes in my life. Lots of ENDS and nothing to replace it in life that brings Joy. I still hold on to the promises though.

    SS. Thank you for the hug. I just feel down today.

    Daria. I have always believed that a persons behavior is separate from them. When my children were little if I caught them doing something bad or unacceptble I would correct and attack and address the behavior and NEVER attack them. i.e…. you lied to me that was wrong… but I never called them a liar. There is a huge difference.

    I have not ever encounterd this in a romantic relationship. S does habitually lie. After a while it is hard to not think of him as an untrustworthy liar.
    Taking this action for me was right, I do not doubt it. I could not tolerate things anymore. To have him look at me straight in my eyes and say I am not pursuing anyone the other day when I KNEW that it was not true, was very sad.

    I am boldly going to type here that I believe my recurring dream is prophetic. I do not want to seem gulible or that I will never learn. I feel admitting this because I do not want to feel like this or go thru this again w S. I have always left a door open with him when things were broken off. This time I plainly I said ‘I did not want HIM in my life”… I wish that I had stated more acturately… “I do not want this behavior in my life”…. I feel I mis- spoke. I also do not want to write him and explain either because if feels like a betrayal of me too.

    I wish I had a slight opportunity to fix that. sigh

    Linda



  86.  #86Pam on March 8, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Tina – how are you doing now??



  87.  #87Orna Walters on March 8, 2010 at 11:06 am

    I want to share this because I believe it will help all the Goddesses on this thread.

    Several years ago I told my therapist that I didn’t like who I was in relationship. She asked what I meant by that and I said, “I get jealous, suspicious, and I just don’t like that part of me.”

    Then she asked me a question that changed my life FOREVER “Have you ever been suspicious or jealous when it was unfounded?”

    The answer was NO. She’d hit the nail on the head. I was suspicious when there was a REASON to be so. I can happily report that I have NEVER been suspicious, or jealous with my husband.

    Pam, its important for you to find out IF you want to stay with this man, and THEN if you do – can you trust?

    One step at a time…

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  88.  #88Pam on March 8, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Tinque – that is exactly what was happening.I realized I was only hurting myself. And it felt bad….



  89.  #89Orna Walters on March 8, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Linda,

    I think that you said what you felt in that moment. Its not about getting it “perfect.”

    Quite frankly, because you have “left the door open” for him in the past, I feel that saying you did not want HIM was what needed to be said in the moment. There is no door open there and that is the message I believe you wished to convey.

    We can always go back and criticize and analyze and “make it better.” Sometimes its more important to simply move forward even if its clunky.

    Be gentle with yourself.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  90.  #90Tina on March 8, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Oh Pam, I am so glad you asked. hm I live in a house where I dont have to pay rent which saves me money. I feel more alive and continue to live my life on purpose. I see my life as having opprotunites rather than this is my fate, my poor miserable broke ass fate. I have no more anxiety (thats another story) I do still have small anxieties but more managable, I have tools now 🙂 I’ve come to learn to love myself, every day for me is an opprotunity for personal growth and self love. I’m taking courses. I want to put all my boy energy into becoming a millionnaire and saving the planet:)



  91.  #91tinque on March 8, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Pam – I’m so glad you realized this.
    I have to add to that I did have unfounded suspicions.
    The thing is it’s sometimes difficult to know whether one is truly feeling suspicious or if one is having a shaky, insecure moment.
    In my deepest, most intense healing time, I often didn’t know the difference. I had no real reason to be suspicious, but the trigger that occurred within my relationship FELT like a reason to be suspicious.
    I had to be very careful and also very gentle with myself to tease apart the reality of my situation from those feelings.
    It wasn’t easy, and I wasn’t always successful, but at least I had the wherewithal to know what was going on inside me. I was able to keep this to myself, work it out within myself.
    THOUGH when things felt overwhelming I would share that I felt overwhelmed. Specifics were unnecessary and not asked for, and usually comfort was proffered. That’s all I really was looking for anyway, reaffirmation of love and care.
    This was MY stuff, not his.
    xxoo



  92.  #92Tina on March 8, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Tinque, what did you do when you felt the urge to snoop and your feelings of suspicion. Do I need love or do I feel suspicion? am I feeling overwhelmed? overwhelmed with my need for love or overwhelmed with suspicion. I can safely say I feel overwhelmed.



  93.  #93Mercedes on March 8, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Linmayu?!? I’ve missed you! Wow! Soooo good to see your name up there! 🙂



  94.  #94Kristine on March 8, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Sometimes I find it hard to know if a man is treating me badly. They may not being doing anything quite as obvious as verbal or physical abuse, but just acting distant or unsure of things. It doesn’t bother me in the moment that it happens, but after thinking about it, I may start to feel weird. I wonder if it is really “toxic” of him, or just me over-analyzing things. I find it hard to express feeling messages in the moment, because I don’t really know what they are…I seem to need time to process my feelings. I am usually feeling good about myself and don’t really care…little things just don’t bother me. However, I don’t want to condone bad behaviour or just put up with it and keep going back to a man, if that is what it is. It’s not really anything serious or really bad. Sometimes I just don’t know. And if in the moment I feel ok about it, I don’t want to come back later and dig up something he’s probably long forgotten about anyway. Anyone have any suggestions or examples of how to handle situations where a man’s behaviour, or your feelings, are not clear? Where you don’t really know, at the time, how you feel about something a man does or says? Or where you first feel ok and then after some time passes, you recall the moment and you feel different about it? Should you bring it up? Anyone else have that experience?

    Kristine



  95.  #95tinque on March 8, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Tina – That’s a really good question. I fought the urges for awhile, and sometimes I succumbed. It never felt good. If I found nothing, I felt riddled with guilt. If I found something, then I not only felt guilty, I also just felt bad, for it reinforced my feelings of unworthiness.
    It took a long time to stop altogether, and the longer I stayed away from it, the easier it became.
    I have to say in the beginning and for some time thereafter, I really struggled with this. It was like being caught in an eddy spiraling downward. One would reinforce the other and vice versa.
    As I worked on my insecurities, learned to open myself. be vulnerable, release old stuff, K and I grew even closer, for he took my lead in this. With these things working hand in hand, the spiraling eddy began to spiral the other way. One reinforced the other and vice versa.
    So now if I’m ever having a shaky moment and the thought to snoop crosses my mind, it never grabs hold of me. It’s become very easy to shake it off, laugh at it, knowing it’s an old habit that’s not a part of me anymore.
    I can now tell myself I hope he has been turning himself on, for then I’ll get some later and not have to seduce him LOL.
    By the way, I’ve been having trouble getting on this site today, so I couldn’t respond to you earlier.
    You should try it, masturbation clips I mean, if only for yourself initially. If nothing else it’s very educational.
    I can totally see you enjoying this.
    xxoo



  96.  #96Tina on March 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    haha, yeah Tinque, I probibly would. I have experiancing in “directing” I’m going to try it soon hehe. I’ll need a whole day to put it together. I’m sure “truckman” will come blazing through the wooods knocking down trees to come to me lol. I could play hide and seek all day lol or a few days oh my god Tinque your a genious. Tina porn! woohoo!



  97.  #97sia on March 8, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    tinque,
    what are masturbation clips?



  98.  #98lm on March 8, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    pam,

    i can walk now because i see that i don’t need him to be happy, that i’m responsible for my own happiness, which lives in me. i was born with it, but i learned to turn it over to other people (specifically men). i wouldn’t have come to this realisation without this online dating crisis. no big deal to him, an old habit, but it rocked me to the core.

    i’ve only recently been able to accept his answers as the truth. i believe i they are the truth. when i first found this stuff i resisted believing him. but i really had to devote time and gentleness to myself and learn to focus on me before i could be objective about it. at the time, i took his actions as evidence that i wasn’t sufficient, that i wasn’t enough and couldn’t believe that he had his own insecurities that lead him to make mistakes.

    as for looking through his computer, i sometimes get the urge, but i realise that when i was compulsively snooping i was just adding to my own misery and making myself even more upset. and this was after i was sure he wasn’t cheating on me…we lived together and worked together. he’d had to have been REALLY SNEAKY AND REALLY QUICK to actually carry on an affair :-). he also told me he didn’t care if i read his emails or used his computer, which took a lot of the temptation away.

    i see now i used snooping and the bad feelings about what i found as a way to beat myself up, a way to prove all of the bad things my inner critic was telling me. it was like i was looking for a way to keep feeling bad about myself. i think my experience was similar to tinque’s…snooping just made things worse…i felt bad about doing it and i was quick to use anything against him (and myself), even if i had no context for it and there was nothing behind it. i almost became addicted to it!!



  99.  #99tinque on March 8, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    sia – Making your own little movies of yourself for a man. Most men love to watch women touching themselves, especially masturbating.
    I started out with boudoir photos, moved on to racier ones, and racier ones still, and when K and I were apart for a month due to our move cross country, I turned the webcam on and turned myself on too. If you can bring yourself to orgasm, all the better.
    Of course he loved them.
    It may feel weird at first, uncomfortable, embarrassing, but when you see how much they enjoy seeing this, silly faces and all, any strangeness around doing this will disappear.
    Doing it for them live is lots of fun too.
    xxoo



  100.  #100sia on March 8, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    thank you tinque

    I like the idea, but, first thing which came to my head was where would my pics end up after a breakup in a case I chose my man wrong:(



  101.  #101Tina on March 8, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Update on my roots, I waited and waited for my eco hair dye, when I looked at my roots in the day light ,it didnt look so bad, I think it was more of a reflection of how I was feeling at the time. anyway, I finally used up the stuff I had, so no roots, I’ll say the planet and my hair another day! This such should keep me root free until my stuff comes in.



  102.  #102Pam on March 8, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Im – “i see now i used snooping and the bad feelings about what i found as a way to beat myself up, a way to prove all of the bad things my inner critic was telling me. it was like i was looking for a way to keep feeling bad about myself. i think my experience was similar to tinque’s…snooping just made things worse…i felt bad about doing it and i was quick to use anything against him (and myself), even if i had no context for it and there was nothing behind it. i almost became addicted to it!!”

    Powerful. That statement spoke to me.

    I am off of work and onto Yoga with a NEW and positive attitude. You are all amazing women….



  103.  #103Lucy on March 8, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Orna’s comment: ‘Then she asked me a question that changed my life FOREVER “Have you ever been suspicious or jealous when it was unfounded?”

    ‘The answer was NO. She’d hit the nail on the head. I was suspicious when there was a REASON to be so. I can happily report that I have NEVER been suspicious, or jealous with my husband.’

    Orna! That is SO encouraging! I feel the same is true for me — my gut instincts, which felt like suspicion and jealousy — were ALWAYS founded. It feels really really good to think that I could be in a relationship some day and NOT feel suspicious or jealous simply because there would be NO REASON to feel that way! Oh, that feels so good to think about!!! To be in a relationship with no suspicion or jealousy would be a dream come true! <3



  104.  #104Linda on March 8, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Orna… there is a part of me that wishes I had left the door open this time. Heck, he did not remember half the stuff I said to him anyway. Half the time he did not remember what he told me. That is pretty concerning. … I asked him if he remembered what he told me as he declaired his love and confessed his sorrow for being so stubborn and willful against what he felt God wanted for him and now he wanted the same thing…. ME. He said he loved me very much and he had for a long time. My response was… “show me” and he did for a while. But he said he never remembered saying that to me. hmmmm That is something pretty significant in my mind.

    So I guess I said what I meant at the time and yes today it feels clunky.

    I like what you said about your time with the counselor. I have never been the jealous type, nor an insecure suspicious woman. I have an experience like this with 2 men now. When I feel suspicious it is not because of insecurity, it is because there is JUST cause and reason for me to feel it. I operate on the premise of I trust you until you prove that you are not trustworthy across the board with everybody in my life. I feel validated by your statement. When I feel there is something not right… it is because there is something not right!… NOT because I conjured it up in my head.

    I did something KIND for me today. I still had history on my computer from S’s activity on it. I could get into his email by the click of a button…. I read his current stuff on Friday and that was 4 days longer than I should have. I did not like how I felt and it just wanted to make me throw up. I felt physically like I was being stabbed in the heart. Wishing things were not like this etc… The stuff he was telling this new pursuit was touted at the complete and honest truth. OMGosh… it was twisted based on shreads of truth and manipulated to make himself look good and honorable. There was nothing “completely” honest in it at all. He does not even have the ability to honor this new woman and the cycle continues. A habitual lie telling man.

    I did not look at his stuff on Sat or Sun. Today, I decided to come home and erase all my history and clean up the internet files. I just did not need to look or be tempted to look at his stuff anymore. It just hurt ME. I just feel sick at my stomach today about it all. I decided to be kind to me and stop punishing myself with and continued curiosity about him. Like some of you have said, It made me miserable. I already had my proof, I dont need to add more and kick myself in the head and gut too!. Yeah for me.

    When does the feeling good and happy part come?
    I just feel weak and worn down. My face looks awful. NO glow, I feel weepy and cant say much with out feeling cynical or pesimistic. GRRRRRRR I want myself back.

    Linda



  105.  #105Lucy on March 8, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Linda – “When does the feeling good and happy part come?” For me, the turning point was when I finally made the choice to end the relationship (in my case, marriage) — and THAT took me seven years!!!! A big hurdle for me was my Christian positionality (as well as my parents) that staying married was better for everyone than getting divorced. So, I would feel like I have made a huge step if I were you — by making the choice to walk away.

    After I made that decision, it took awhile for me to feel FIRM in the decision — still feeling angry, blaming, and resentful of him for “ruining my life” and messing up our kids. I found that as long as I was still resentful and angry toward him, I was not able to fully move on and be happy. It was as if those strong emotions tied me to him in some way AND interfered with moving on and feeling GOOD about me and my life.

    So it took about another year — and SERIOUSLY circular dating (even though I didn’t know it was called that cuz I hadn’t yet found Rori) to REALLY let go, move on, drop the attachment to him, and feel great about my life — and at the same time, I was able to finally let go of the anger and resentment because he just didn’t matter to me in the same way any more. I now am very much at peace with him, am friends with him, the kids even say I am flirting with him — if I am, it does not mean anything to me, I am just happy and content with my life and it comes out in playful, happy ways with people. I do NOT want him back because I don’t think he has changed. But *I* have changed, and because of that, he says he is magnetized toward me and that I have cast a spell on him , that he is in love with me. I kind of feel sorry for him because I do not feel the same!

    But I let go of the anger because it was not helpful to me to hold onto it.

    I feel expectant that YOU will get to that feeling good place a lot sooner than I did, because of all the tools, teaching, and support here with Rori and Co.

    <3
    Lucy



  106.  #106Honey on March 8, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    I just felt I wanted you all to know that I’m here. Because I feel so inexperienced. I just read your posts everyday instead of joining in and sharing fully (and because of stupid time) but I feel love and admiration for you all. I feel like Rori helped saved me! For that I feel so grateful… Daria, you are a queen! All of you are… so special and precious. I want to be more involved. Thank you beautiful Sirens for being you. Love Honey xxxxxx



  107.  #107Linmayu on March 8, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Aww, big hugs to all who missed me, lol!

    Tinque: It’s interesting that you used the imagery of things being murky and then becoming clear. I feel that way too, much clearer and much stronger. God has blessed me and is showing me everything in my life, including where I’ve created all kinds of misery that I didn’t have to. Yoga helps too. 🙂

    As far as men compartmentalizing their friends/various parts of their lives, that throws up a big red flag for me. It shows me who a man is. He is doing things with some people that he does not want other people to know about. He is doing things he is not proud of. He is not honest with himself. I simply could not trust a man who feels the need to do that–even though it seems like almost all of them do to some extent.



  108.  #108Linmayu on March 8, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Also I feel so inspired by Orna’s comment. I’ve also never been jealous or suspicious when it was unfounded. When it doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t.



  109.  #109tinque on March 8, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    “When does the feeling good and happy part come?”

    Linda – It will come when it comes. That you are here and working on yourself in such a beautiful and positive way may move things along better, but still you need the time it takes YOU to heal.
    xxoo



  110.  #110Daria on March 8, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Thank you HONEY! I feel great!!! hehe! YOU are a Queenly Goddess yourself!



  111.  #111heartbeat on March 8, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    I just wanted to say night night and join with you all for a moment, I need an early sleep. You are all amazing, I feel nurtured. Thank you xxxxxxxx



  112.  #112Daria on March 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Linmayu – I love youuUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

    youre use back in the day of the admirable word ‘fuckin’ on the blog liberated me!!! I’ve now gone wild!!!

    Goddess gone wILD! lool

    ps as you know i love you for more than just your excellent use of words



  113.  #113tinque on March 8, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    It’s interesting to me what has been coming up here, this thing about men keeping their activities and friends separate from their beloved. It feels so sad.
    This has never been my experience.
    Yes men compartmentalize their lives, within their brains, but away from their woman? I could not be with someone who did this. It would feel to me like there is something to hide.
    I want openness and honesty. Secrets are damaging.

    xxoo



  114.  #114Linda on March 8, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Hey Lucy… thank you

    I have lived thru detatchment and no bitter, angry, hurt, resentful feelings with my ex-husband. We too are friends and sometimes attend the same functions with ease. I even told him last summer. “I am not mad at you anymore” It feels so much better.

    Being a christian and heavily involved with church and its work for years when I was married was a very very hard hurdle to overcome. People would look at us and want just what we had. But you can never judge a book by is cover. No one lived my life. I have grown so much. Even talk to some of my old friends. They look at me differently, but honestly I feel there is some quiet unspoken admiration at my courage to step up and out. A few of my girlfriends in the circle were very very unhappy in their marriages.

    I know I did the right thing by walking away from this last romantic try with S. I am just wanting to feel the confirmation. I know there are other men and better ones. Heck my ex husband is a better man than him as I have come to find out. It is just there is not fire and passion with my ex and I feel frustrated that my seeking a fuller expression of relationship that I ever had with him is proving very difficult. I am running into so many stinkers and untruthful, baggage ladden men. Sometimes it scares me.

    I have found a peace in my home, and comfortableness with myself and my aloneness. It is a pretty day here where I live and as I walked to the mailbox after work I felt a heavy sigh… I just was so hoping that this spring I would not be alone. But I will keep trying, doing, and practice more of the tools. It really sucks to have invested and believed in something to have it crumble again. I am really tired of it.

    I am on the dating website again. I have been getting a few emails. None are interesting. I had one man write how great my eyes were and that he loved kissable lips…. OHHHH pLEESZZZZE. I am feeling pretty candid and tired of come on lines and the like. I simply wrote… Well it looks like you did read my profile. You referenced a few of the things that I listed. You asked me what my intuition was about you…(the guy who wrote it)….. I continuted… To be honest, I have no intuition about you, but honestly your email is feels insincere and come on lineish. Sorry, it takes alot to get my attention. Happy fishing…
    WHOA…. I am feeling like a high level of difficulty, bitchy goddess today. It felt kinda good to be that candid.

    He wrote back and said. I have been told I have been too nice or too concerned about others feeling and too intelligent, but I have never been told that what I was insincere and come on lineish. He thanked me for my candor and said he would re-read what he wrote me in that light WOW!.

    HEY Daria…Maybe I just caused a guy to become a better man because I just did not wanna hear that crap…. maybe he will take it to heart. Goddess training 101 for men.

    Hugs… Linda



  115.  #115Orna Walters on March 8, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Lucy,

    “To be in a relationship with no suspicion or jealousy would be a dream come true! <3"

    THIS IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE FOR YOU! <3

    I know it is not only possible, but probable. YOU make it happen. Its really about trusting You. I am extremely intuitive and honoring my gifts truly shifted so much in my journey.

    I also think what Tinque shared is very powerful. We had different experiences and I feel its important to honor both as you Goddesses have the opportunity to find who's experience you resonate with.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  116.  #116Beth on March 8, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Pam, I have also been doing Yoga for about 2 months, and I absolutely love it! I sleep better and even though I’m still in beginner poses, I am feeling the benefits in so many ways!
    Yoga combined with Rori’s tools have been a life saver for me!



  117.  #117Daria on March 8, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    LInda – I’m not sure

    to me it seems he was paying you a compliment…

    but perhaps you have helped him “up his game”

    as part of my own thing I have learned to say Thank You when I’m being complimented. If I feel weird I say that as well…

    ex… like in Targeting Mr. Right, a woman and Rori are practicing what to do if he says

    Hey nice boobs!

    ANd thers a whole interaction about it…

    Rori says to say… oh… I feel glad to be compimented… and it feels uncomfortable to talk about my boobs… wow actually im feeling really angry!

    and then he replies, and if his reply doesnt make you feel good right away then we walk away

    So if I felt like you did I would say:

    thank you for the compliment… It feels flattering… and also I’m feeling a lil weird…. i feel uncomfortable getting a compliment like this .. Im finding myself feeling suspicious of it being insincere

    (Why does it feel insincere? Possible something to open up to yourself? Men may just like your eyes and lips? )

    I personally take all compliments as worship at my Goddess altar. I just know they are true!



  118.  #118Orna Walters on March 8, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I pinched this entire post from Tinque:
    “It’s interesting to me what has been coming up here, this thing about men keeping their activities and friends separate from their beloved. It feels so sad.
    This has never been my experience.
    Yes men compartmentalize their lives, within their brains, but away from their woman? I could not be with someone who did this. It would feel to me like there is something to hide.
    I want openness and honesty. Secrets are damaging.”

    I could not agree more! I would not feel safe if I was kept from people in my man’s life.

    If this is part of your current relationship experience, and it does not feel comfortable it is imperative that you honor your feelings and SPEAK UP!

    I have a client who is in a bi-racial relationship, and her bf had kept her from his family because of them, not her. We’ve been working together for a few months and I’m happy to report that he has introduced her to his family!

    What is important is to communicate with your man. If you are being kept separate, it may not be about You (as the case with my client).

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  119.  #119BigLuv on March 8, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    I love having the power. And I’m reminded not to surrender it to anyone except myself! Oooh, Heartbeat and Linda’s posts were like a mirror for me too. I honor and respect those who shared their heartbreak. Blessings to you as you move onto your next steps.

    Peace,

    BigLuv



  120.  #120Linda on March 8, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Daria Thanks for your input. I kinda quickly paraphrased the email from him. It was definately a come-on-line email. I will practice I guess, but his messages was I had great eyes and lips. I did thank him for the compliment but when he asked about my impression or intuition about him I was candid.

    I had another email of a guy saying he liked that I was a christian and not many confess that on the website. I thanked him and said, so tell me about more about you. His response was. “So what do you want to know”? Utoh… I just rolled my eyes and wrote…. Thank you for admiring my faith it is important to me. Then I said,.. It is feels weird getting a question as an answer to my question. I guess that is no answer at all. That feels really uninteresting to me. Happy fishing…

    I have no interest in that at all. If you are gonna write, then say something. Sheesh. I think I better go to bed. I am in a mood that would cause me to take prince charmings head off rather than to look at him. LOL…. I like my disgust and mistrust right now.

    Nite ladies. Thanks for all your help and care and input. Tomorrow is another day.

    Hugs. Linda



  121.  #121Daria on March 8, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Linda- hugs!

    sometimes I get a weird vibe and I’m learning to trust the feeling!

    I feel turned off by question asking too, and I’ve been noticing that “if I cut him some slack” in the attraction department… he doesn’t really seem to step up.

    I am going to babystep my way to your more candid approach. It did seem to make “you have beautiful eyes and lips” guy step up



  122.  #122Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    I feel judgement coming on about ” a relationship where there is no jealousy or suspicion, either she is really dumb, clueless or a woman with high self esteem or she married jesus or some other saint.



  123.  #123Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Jealousy and suspicion is two of my worst charactor traits ugh! using feeing messages really help me a lot. The tools in general really help me with this. I need it 🙂



  124.  #124Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    I love my feelings 🙂



  125.  #125Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I feel jealousy and suspicion right now, for no particular reason hehe.



  126.  #126Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    My brain is obsessing right now with my feelings of jealousy and suspicion 🙂 I want to “switch” it off. It’s just on on on. Jealousy and suspicion is just bounciing around in my head. boing boing boing. No reason just is 🙂



  127.  #127Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    I feel this physical urge to stretch out my chest, my arms stretching way back behind me. oh that feels good, I feel opened up 🙂 jealousy and suspicion seems to be stuck there.



  128.  #128Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    My palms are open my , face is stretched to the sky, oh that feels good. Open up my chest feels good. Now I feel like one of those goddess on a front of a a ship. what are those things anyway?



  129.  #129Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    I’m filling myself up with love with a capital L 🙂



  130.  #130gina on March 8, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    I’m beginning to feel some acceptance over some very difficult memories – mostly of how I have hurt myself and others. I also feel acceptance of ways others have hurt me. And it feels very good.



  131.  #131Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Imagine a beam of light coming down filling you up with love Tina, yeah love , this feels good. Breathing way down into your vagina, oh my! my vagjayjay? yes Tina your vagjayjay.



  132.  #132Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    imagine that beam busting up the solid hard feeling of jealousy and suspicion like a uh uh, um gallstone yeah a gallstone, shattering it into little pieces so it becomes more bearable until it eventually leaves your body, have a nice drink of water, yeah.



  133.  #133Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Good job girl! big hugs*



  134.  #134Tina on March 8, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    I was feeling my way through hehe. How many ways can I love myself? As many ways as you want, wanna try another one? naw, I feel good now thank you 🙂



  135.  #135Rori Raye on March 8, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Hi, BigLuv, and thank you for your lovely comment. Love, Rori



  136.  #136Erika Awakening on March 8, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Little different perspective here …

    When things like this happen, it’s a reflection of our own fear (of commitment, of intimacy, etc.) … projected on to him.

    The answer is not to “write him off.”

    The answer is to look within to see what in ME created this outcome.

    Then erase the fear at its source.

    Blaming or judging him or writing him off will definitely never solve the real problem.

    Which is fear within US.



  137.  #137gina on March 8, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    I feel triggerred by the idea that I should keep all people in my life. There have been many that I have written off. My dad even wrote off his brother. Which is insane. My mom shouldn’t let this happen!!! I’m going to contact my Dad tomorrow and tell him to contact his brother!



  138.  #138Tina on March 8, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    I wouldnt stick around for a punch in the head, although some women do, myself included. I wouldnt want to sit in the same room with him, let alone try and deal with why I allowed it. I would hit the road then figure things out later. Your right though Erika about fear of intimacy , I wonder if I had used feelings messages with my first ex , if I would have never married him in the first place. probibly not. I have no problem writting a man off. The process of writing a man off is difficult, Rori teaches us how to write a man off in a way that is good for us 🙂



  139.  #139Tina on March 8, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    I wouldnt write him off if he was viewing porn and getting his jollies every now and then 🙂



  140.  #140Tina on March 8, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    I would expect a man who knows he is getting married to know that he is no longer allowed to keep profiles on dating sites or correspond with. I see this all the time I FOUND THE ONE BUT IM KEEPING MY ACCOUNT OPEN.



  141.  #141Tina on March 8, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    I have a suspicious feeling that he did in fact do this before he proposed, and would have continued on with his shananigins long after but that’s just me feeling suspicious. Paula “assumed” they had an exclusive relationship up and including the time of his proposal. Why did she assume that? I dunno…



  142.  #142Tina on March 8, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Your right though Erika, you do have a different perspective on this, I see/feel what your saying. I dunno, he just didnt seem to be ending things with his online women though? that’s my thing…

    ok, so dont write him off but dont accept his engagement right back in a hury either.



  143.  #143Daria on March 8, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    I don’t think Erika actually keeps abusive men close, but she proably doesn’t write them off heart wise. I don’t either.

    Or I could be wrong but hey ! correct moi! Erika dondesta?



  144.  #144Tina on March 8, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Use him as free therapy?



  145.  #145Erika Awakening on March 8, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Thanks Daria.

    You are right, I don’t tolerate abusive men.

    I find the source in me that created a negative situation, erase that “energy” at its source, and then the abusive men don’t show up anymore.

    I never write anyone off, heart-wise.

    I change my mind about them (at a very deep subconscious level), and they transform before my eyes 🙂



  146.  #146Daria on March 8, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    I want to transform Transformer man!

    Erika uses her slicing killer blade of EFT belief change to “change her mind about them at the core” BTW.

    It’s in tune with what Rori has taught me before, about what shows up is my mirror. For example when that one guy was calling me “slut” Rori said “am I calling myself slut?” I was. So when I stopped calling myself slut he and teh world stopped too.

    However he does occasionally log on and call me “[racist epithet] whore” but it just slides off of me. I feel as close to non triggered as non-triggered could be. In fact I kinda like that of being the “[racist epithet] whore” Goddess. I feel like I’m being blantantly defying his sucky expectations – not that I enjoy him calling me that. BUT I do enjoy not feeling the need to respond to that. And I get to see HIS issues as his. AND I don’t actually block him. AND – there was another benefit… – what was that? I forgot.

    OH yeah i get to check my psychic connection. I generally have a psychic feeling he will do it before he does. So its like AHA! I got the psychic touch.



  147.  #147Tina on March 8, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Leaving a toxic man feels tragic, felt tragic to me at the time. I love my toxic feelings , jealousy and suspicion feel toxic to me.



  148.  #148Georgia on March 8, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    I just found this Rori’s tool (https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/category/feminine-energy/page/2/) Its really help me to know where I am now.

    I tried to look around and really focus on every single things in my house. when I look at my daughter’s school bag, her toys I feel so vulnerable and I was like OMG I am here. when I look at my husband’s pant 😀 omg he is my husband and I am married to him. Rori is right-What if what we often assume to be lemons simply aren`t lemons at all? There is much in life that brings pain.

    I realised within this 2 years I wasn’t there. My heart my soul. Only my daughter I had in my mind. none of them a place for my husband. omg I feel so scared.

    Rori said – Trust yourself. If you are happy, be happy. If you are sad, be sad. Sooner or later, the feeling will lead to a thought, which will lead to another feeling, which will lead to another thought, which will lead to a feeling which will lead to action. Be curious

    I’ll always remember that words. Thanks Rori!

    God bless



  149.  #149Daria on March 8, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Georgia that post rocked thank you.

    I have a dating dilemma.

    There is this guy who flaked on me about 5 months ago on date 2 without letting me know, and I refused to date him.

    He is overweight. When I first went on a date with him, I didn’t feel attracted to him but he is nice.

    I told him this.. he’s like “im too big for you huh?” I said I don’t know. I usually like skinny guys.

    I don’t know if the issue is him being big, even though yes in the past I haven’t been attracted by big guys. But it might be his insecurity about being big. Or mine.

    So now 5 months later he has been trying to get me to date him and he asked very gentlemanly like and i said yes. We went to dinner and a movie, he was a gentleman, I felt feminine, but I didn’t feel too connected. We didn’t really talk much either.

    Now he wants to see me again as much as I’m free he said, he mentioned friday but i told him im probably busy as my girl is coming in from out of town, then he said maybe he cna Tuesday let him know.

    He sent me a text in the morning. He sent me 2 messages online the same nite as the date asking what im doing. He called me today and left me a message to call him. He also has messaged me online.

    I haven’t responded.

    I’m feeling … guilty and a little stressed. I kissed him the first time and this date, just a lil bit… Rori says to kiss to see how we feel. I feel kinda icky when he grabs my hand.

    What do I DO???

    I want to open up to nice guys but I feel kinda uncomfortable getting more close to him than this. I would prefer not to kiss him. I feel judgemental of myself a lil bit for not liking him because of his weight – though I think it may just seem to be his weight and is really his insecurity.

    I told him before this date that i think he’s insecure and i feel uncomfortable. He said I’m not insecure. I want to take you out. Are you free Sunday? That won me over?

    Any IDEAS? What’s going on here. I don’t want to really be close to him, I do want to open up to men pursuing me… I feel unsure whether I’m closing off because someone is pursuing me and I’m not used to being so chased – all the phone calls with messages, and im messages, being taken out to nice dinners and movies — or whether it’s that I feel uncomfortable I DO I DO and that is for another erason?

    I feel lost! I feel guilty telling him I don’t like him cuz he’s big! Esp cuz he asked me that! I’ve never liked big men in any way! I liek them skinny! But Transformer guy got Kinda big at one point and I still felt attracted to him… maybe a bigger guy with more confidence would turn me on? Yeah.. like I know a bigger guy I thnk of right now that I could be with… but this guy is really really BIG!

    Help! Whats going on, how do I best learn and practice here?

    I find myself thinking about his health as well… but I don’t think about the health of say… smokers… at least not as much… (I guess i do hmm)…

    Help?



  150.  #150Georgia on March 9, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Thanks Daria 🙂

    I don’t have much experience in dating. because I don’t have a chance to.

    From my opinion (I’ll try to help and of course ladies here can offer more esspecially Rori) you feel guilty that you might hurt him, if it were me I may have the same feelings like yours too. I have certain particular in men too that I don’t want to date. I only date a man who has car (thats my rule) because I don’t drive and I don’t want to waste cab’s fee just for one dinner 😀 silly me. Although my mind will say come on they are here just to help me to practise my tool. but I don’t want to feel i forced myself to do it. Maybe yours let say big guy?
    Maybe think what would You do if You put yourself first. Maybe You will say next or keep dating him see how it goes or Maybe no more messages from him anymore? You know the best Daria 🙂 love ya..

    hugs*



  151.  #151heartbeat on March 9, 2010 at 12:18 am

    Orna & Tinque – I love your comments, and yes I agree – both that it feels sad and unsafe to be kept separate AND it was not about me. When I communicated this, he opened up about his fears from the past and how this had been a long-time strategy of safety for him.

    I knew he was a difficult guy and communication using feeling messages etc a la Rori really helped me, and the relationship did open up and grow slowly. But then he made plans to go to his ex-girlfriends and another female friend for most of Christmas Day, leaving me on my own without any indication two days after my sister’s funeral – I felt confused – I can’t feel love and disappointment together. Thing is, when we talked about it, he said he’d been sick with anxiety making those plans (and not telling me, cuz he ‘didn’t want to upset me’ while I was dealing with my sister’s death).

    I have to say, on Christmas Day, I was so exhausted I made a decision to just park it. I didn’t want to spoil my holiday. I had relatives to phone (we live far away from one another) so I made it an opportunity to do that and to rest. Though I’d cried after we’d opened our presents in a fun way, fallen asleep and then woken up realising he’d be going in half an hour. He asked what was wrong. I said I feel terrible, I don’t want to be on my own today.

    So for me it wasn’t so much the compartmentalising – it was the awful feelings in circumstances like this, that I just don’t want to have to tolerate. I just feel foolish constantly searching for the golden nugget.

    I haven’t slammed the door tightly shut, but tell you what…. I feel GRRRRRRREAT right now!!! I can’t wait to go on my trip, I feel excited!! I love my new fringe and cleared-out wardrobe and if I haven’t said it already – I’m going to stay in a bamboo hut by a beach on a Greek Island 🙂 plus two days in Athens BY MYSELF. And I’m having a good time.

    xxxx



  152.  #152Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Hi Georgia –

    wow thanks! If I put MYSELF first!

    I would say… I’m feeling uncomfortable… I’m not feeling romantically attracted to you at this point, and I feel confused why… and I liked our dates and felt good and taken care of by you… you’re a gentleman for sure and that feels really good… and at the same time I don’t feel comfortable really kissing or getting close romantically… I want to be really honest with you because that’s important to me… what do you think?

    Something like that!

    Like hey I like you and I don’t like getting close to you. But i really like being taken out on dates and feeling like a lady with you. I don’t feel comfortable getting close … what do you think?

    Or like…

    I feel like a lady on our dates and I feel good doing that. And I’m not feeling comfortable getting close to you… and I feel uncomfortable about that… I feel unsure of whether I want to continue seeing you… I feel kind of guilty and unworthy to have you spend your money on me when I’m not feeling attraction … what do you think?

    wow !!



  153.  #153Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:26 am

    heartbeat – do you have a way to deal with jetlag?



  154.  #154heartbeat on March 9, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Hi Daria – no, Greece is only 3hrs flight from me. I did go to India a few years ago, that was about 15hrs total travelling, but I don’t remember having jet lag. I felt too excited! xx



  155.  #155Georgia on March 9, 2010 at 12:37 am

    You are most welcome Daria 🙂

    You are the best in feelings message. Both are cool. All about you your feelings. can I put put opinion? 😀

    The first feeling message sounds to me You are curious and you want to give him a chance and you hope something more from him to offer.

    The second feeling message sounds to me, is like You might stop dating him.

    If I am the guy 😀 (follow Rori) i’ll love to hear the first feeling message

    hugs*



  156.  #156Georgia on March 9, 2010 at 12:38 am

    off to pick my daughter up from school. good night all. sweet dream 🙂



  157.  #157Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:39 am

    heartbeat – oh yeha!! hehe!

    I’ve noticed the past two years me and my mom went to Romania we had TERRIBLE jetlag. Didn’t use to happen as much before… but this time it was HORRIBLE! So I am looking for ways to feel good…

    I’m thinking melatonin supplements and maybe ginseng for a few days before and after flight.



  158.  #158Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:48 am

    I feel unsure. I like being taken out on dates. I don’t like getting close to him.

    And under that is me feeling unworthy of being taken out by a man that i don’t feel attracted to.

    But i Do go out on dates with men i don’t feel attracted to.

    so whats the Big deal now?

    I feel unsure. I just know that I feel like… ICK. I don’t want to.

    I shouldn’t have to go out with a guy I don’t want to kiss.. that wants to kiss me.

    BLAH

    I DON’T want to make myself feel icky.

    I still feel seriously lost.

    Hi… I want to be taken out but I feel grossed out when I kiss you. I feel desperate as there are no men treating me as well as you are at this point and I don’t want to lose this opportunity to be taken out and treated like a lady. WHAT DO YOU THINK?



  159.  #159Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:50 am

    I am not a good enough non-judgemental person to like YOU who are BIG or the guy without ARMS!

    But I WOULD BE if you guys were damn attractive. but you’re not!

    I probably would like the guy without an eye.

    ITS NOT YOUR FLAWS ITS YOUR PERSONALITIES.

    I’m not feeling you guys!! so why are you the ones – ok one – treating me well…

    I FEEL FRUSTRATED



  160.  #160Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:52 am

    If a guy didn’t have arms but I was hella feeling his personality I would not be trippin.

    If a guy was really fat and I was feeling his personality I dono… I’m unfortunately biased here… but look at Biggie Smalls. I was never a Biggie Smalls fan.

    And the thing is, I think big Women are beautiful. So why not big men? I don’t know. Some women don’t like short men. I like skinny men.

    UFF

    Can I accept this? NO! thats not FAIR Daria. You have to like men of all body types.

    WTF



  161.  #161Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:57 am

    I LOVE MY CONFUSED FRUSTRATED GROSSED OUT LOVING ME FEELINGS.

    If I knew I was just talking to someone and woudl not in any way hurt thier feelings in fact I woudl jsut get what I want I would say.

    Hey I’m not feeling attracted to you and I don’t feel comfortable getting really romantically close. And I really enjoy our dates and getting treated like a lady. What do you think?

    I’m skipping the part about me feeling unworthy of being taken out on dates when I don’t feel comfortable getting romantically clsoe. And I’m skipping the part about me feeling guilty.

    Why?

    WHAT IS The trigger?

    What is the message?

    The message is to own what i want.

    But what if I’m falling back into toxic patterns? This is a guy that wants to take me out! But I’m feeling ick..

    I felt ick with THE LAST MAN AHA – i dated like this. Tho he’s my friend kinda now. It still feels nice hanging out with him and talking – but we relate on a talking about business level… and also he doesn’t try to kiss me… tho i know he likes me.

    SO WHAT about this situation?

    Do I want to go out wiht him again?

    NOT IF I HAVE TO KISS HIM!

    So is this a case where I say no, even tho hes a good guy that wants to give to me?

    Well if he wants to give to me that bad he’ll give to me withouth having to kiss him, or else he’ll magically do something that makes me want to kiss him.

    Aha.

    ok.

    I still feel racing tummy but i’m feeling a lil better.



  162.  #162Daria on March 9, 2010 at 12:58 am

    I really enjoy being treated like a lady… and I’m loathe to give that up. And I’m not feeling any sparks right now… I don’t feel comfortable kissing or getting romantic.

    I think youre one big soppy teddy bear cuddle guy and i like strong tough superman men who can do springs and leaps and acrobatic kung fu

    =/



  163.  #163Daria on March 9, 2010 at 1:00 am

    Ladies – am I blindly missing the obvious here? Sometimes when other Goddesses are having trouble telling it like it is, it just seems so obvious. But it doesn’t feel obvious in the middle of it…

    so what do you think? What is the message you see here?



  164.  #164Daria on March 9, 2010 at 1:10 am

    Is this man wanting to give to me? yes

    is he taking from me? yes hes taking my kisses and I don’t like it really… well it was semi ok but right now my body and nani are saying nooo ick!

    they’ve said noo ick to other men in the past (all big). They even said no ick to Transformer when he was big one time. But I kept on at that time and they didn’t say no ick the time after that…

    I don’t want to force my nani when they say no ick.

    they said no ick to my hs boyfriend I just couldn’t take him touching me anymore I felt revulsion and EW I feel like doubling over gross and getting the shivers

    ????? very strange stuff…



  165.  #165Daria on March 9, 2010 at 1:12 am

    at first i liked my highschool boyfriend… but then he was too nice and now i think feminine… and i stopped feeling attracted to him… as he got big too… and after that i had an absolute run away revulsion from 1. big men 2. nice men

    because i stayed with him way past what i wanted to because he would beg me and i felt guilty

    3. guilt tripping men

    i feel overwhelmed and tired nad nto too good right now



  166.  #166Daria on March 9, 2010 at 1:30 am

    I felt smothered. I feel this way now.



  167.  #167Tina on March 9, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Daria, I have “inspired” truckman to want to come to the gym with me :), my ex husband is a 4th degree black belt- he was shorter than me buy an inch , 1 1/2 year man is very handsome, who knows? I KNOW I wouldnt date a man weighing less than me , dunno…



  168.  #168Lisa on March 9, 2010 at 1:54 am

    Hi again

    kinda feel weird like I am interrupting a circle of friends here but just had to say thank you to Daria for this feeling message

    I would say… I’m feeling uncomfortable… I’m not feeling romantically attracted to you at this point, and I feel confused why… and I liked our dates and felt good and taken care of by you… you’re a gentleman for sure and that feels really good… and at the same time I don’t feel comfortable really kissing or getting close romantically… I want to be really honest with you because that’s important to me… what do you think?

    I did a post yesterday and that was basically the feeling message I was trying to get to so you really broke thru something for me, it was great use of those tools and I wanted to say thank you. I feel so good right now.

    and I always do long flights about twice a year I find, vit C, melantonin and a bit of lavender essential oil for the plane really helps! 🙂



  169.  #169Tina on March 9, 2010 at 2:03 am

    Ok, I lied, I did date the great massage therapist, just one but he had an attitude about who was going to pay for the next date. He gives great massages though.



  170.  #170Tina on March 9, 2010 at 2:05 am

    The massage therapist weighed less than me plus he was shorter by like a few inches, his build was smaller than mine, im sure I wore bigger size clothes, I had no romantic feelings for him at all. I would hire him for massages no problem.



  171.  #171Tina on March 9, 2010 at 2:07 am

    I felt like an amazon queen standing next to him hehe. anyway off to bed.



  172.  #172Linda on March 9, 2010 at 4:45 am

    Erika… Wow you have REALLY triggered me here.

    To even suggest that what happened in my life recently was a result of something that was in some way my own doing is NOT TRUE and BUNK. I will NEVER accept that something in me that I causes another person to make the choices and do they do. We have our own free wills. That is like saying a woman who is raped or a person who is murdered projected that onto another person and they fell victum to that some how. That line of thinking is very very dangerous. Some people do not have it in their hearts to do us good.

    I was called a Cold Hearted Bitch by S. I do not think that of myself at all. I do not emulate or potrait that. I do not fear that I am secretly either. The man I was with lies habitually that is HIS stuff not mine. There is NOTHING in me that caused him to do that nor did I project any of my fear or insecurites on him to influence him to do that. It is an issue of his character period.

    Sorry that line of thinking just does not fly here with me.

    Daria… I felt my head spinning reading your thoughts about the man who you are not attracted to. I would suggest taking baby steps to directness. Yeah this guy is nice, treats you good, but he wants romance. He is NOT interested in being buddies.

    Just be honest with him as you are. All of the wrestling with and discovering your feelings is good but the bottom line as I picked up on is you are not attracted to him. I had a man this fall calling, taking me out, driving to me, paying… he did all the right things. I just was not attracted. I tried to work thru see if there was something in me blocking it, but the bottom line is … I was just NOT attracted to him. Tell him and ride on

    Linda



  173.  #173sia on March 9, 2010 at 5:22 am

    daria,
    isn’t the difference that big women are feminine, but big guys cease to give off masculine vibration?
    I am OK with belly , not with ass, prewired by nature which says ass muscles need to be strong for sex/procreation.



  174.  #174Pam on March 9, 2010 at 6:19 am

    I wanted to share the letter I recieved about a week after I discovered the dating website. I read it now and see major denial. (he claims he never did searched or “use” the site when he clearly did). Not sure what I’m dealing with here and would welcome unbiased feedback.

    “When we first met, I told you I had no expectations. (NEVER said that) Meaning I was giving myself another chance at love but keeping my heart hard and off my sleeve. As we both know, we fell for each other hard because of our connection we made. It’s as strong if not stronger today as it was then. We still had to learn so much about each and weigh that against our past learned wisdom, so we kept our eyes opened for assurance and our caution flags up. We were complete strangers. As time went on, we could start to see more in depth how we each lived our lives, getting to know each others families and friends and learning what makes the other person tick. I have been very cautious for a long time. I wanted to make sure that I could be with you before you saw my 100%. The ring I gave you at Christmas represents my commitment and 100% to you. I am proud to see it on your finger. It just killed me when you gave it back even though you had your reasons. Oh, boy, now I want to talk about the website. Like any person on this planet, we all like to be admired and noticed. I truly tried to resign from that site without success a couple of times. I would never use it nor do any searches. It was just there. When I would get generated email, I did open it, most times not, but only for the rush. Men don’t get that feeling very often like women do. I would always feel secure with you when I did open them, knowing I had found what I’ve been looking for all my life. You need to know that this is my honest truth. When I replied to that email in August, I felt that I did that and said those things for the rush and realized to myself that it was completely unnecessary and felt like I deceived you by doing so. Inside it made me realize how important you are to me. I wanted to take it back but couldn’t so I only ignored it. I am a fool for even looking at it. I guess I was looking for a little positive attention. So I would like to close this issue and put this behind us, learn from it and get back to where we were but that can only come in time. You need to understand that everything in our past is true. I agree that we need to communicate better and stay wide open to each other to make this really work. I believe we can do that. We both have been so hurt and discouraged from the past. I think this is what makes it so hard to trust. I’m far from perfect, but truthfully feel we are so good for each other.

    Are there any red flags in there???



  175.  #175lm on March 9, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Pam,

    My bf said: ‘i realised while i was on the site that it’s full of people looking for something they don’t have. i am not looking for anything else. i will never go on there again.’ and he didn’t. i don’t know how much of that was him being embarassed about being busted and how much of it was real remorse. he also said he just ‘wants to put it behind us’, but it is and was very hard and i sometimes felt very distant from him because i can’t talk about it. like your guy, he doesn’t want to address it. that’s a big problem for me.

    when i started really really focusing on myself and moved my attention off of him i started to feel better. it’s been really hard. he broke my heart! i definitely don’t consider him to be as awesome as i did when we started dating. i don’t love him the way i used to. rori’s right: if you express your feelings to him and he doesn’t take great care of them, you will lose feeling for him.

    all of this has really changed our dynamic. i broke up with him before christmas over this (i sat on my feelings for too long and freaked out!). we got back together and he’s been pretty mopey since. he has also been grumbling because i have been spending less time with him and have stopped planning my life around his. he used to never ever want to come to my house and now he complains i never invite him over. he used to avoid meeting my friends (red flag?) and now he nags me to tell him more about my life.

    take care of yourself! have fun, quit listening to the negative voice in your head (i think of mine as a little cartoon snake and i put a piece of silver duct tape over its mouth whenever it starts to nag me. weird, but it works!) and direct ALL your energy away from him unless he’s literally sitting across from you at dinner or in bed with you. i work with my internet dater and i swear i would have gone insane if i hadn’t learned to shift my attention and not make his problems and his insecurities about me.

    i enjoy my life a lot more since i turned things around for myself. last night i went for a driving lesson with a girlfriend (i’m just learning to drive at 31!) and then drank bellinis at a new tapas bar. i flirted with the waiter all night and went home feeling great. a year ago i would have gone right home after the driving lesson hoping to hang out with my guy. or i would have at least been distracted from my good time waiting for his call. things have changed!



  176.  #176Rachel on March 9, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Im,

    I LOVE the little cartoon snake with the duct tape! I am going to start using that today! Thanks!



  177.  #177Pam on March 9, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Thanks Im. You situation sounds so much like mine. Things just feel so different now. And my guy too NEVER comes to my house – I always have to go to his place and it really bothers me. I asked him once why he never comes over and he said pissed off “I have a house to run”. I’m trying so hard to make it all about me and just when I’m doing well – something like this morning happens – My car is in the shop so when he called me at work I said “why don’t you come down and meet for lunch” (he is unemployed and doing nothing at home – on his computer I’m sure!) and he said “you want me to drive all the way there to take you to lunch?” – 20 minutes. And he isn’t going to. Now I’ve been sitting here feeling hurt and angry. AND I have one big dillema – he gave me a puppy last Nov who is now a full grown lab. I live in a small condo and feel bad leaving her alone all day so I drop her off at his house in the am and pick her up in the pm EVERY day. I know this is a huge dependency thing for me and sometimes when I want to be “busy”, I can’t because I always have to be there to pick her up. I can’t afford doggie day care so I’m trying to figure out what to do.If it weren’t for this, I would be able to stay away for days at a time to do my own thing. My friends say just leave her home all day but it’s really hard to do that and not feel bad. Anyway, I wanted to ask you….when you say that he broke your heart and you don’t love him the way you used to – do you think that will change for you and if not, are you ok living with that? That is what I am trying to decide.



  178.  #178Allie on March 9, 2010 at 9:06 am

    I am new to this, just ordered the Targeting Mr. Right CD’s, halfway into it. My husband is a very good looking man. We traveled and did many things together. He is 9 years younger than me. Last summer I found out he had a profile on a married people who cheat website, and he was writing a girl from his high school and planning to go to his HS Reunion with her, stay at a hotel, while I was going to be away at the beach house we bought, he was going to go a week later to meet me there. He was writing to 4 women from the website. He wrote he had someone for 3 years but she moved away when her husband got a job somewhere else, and that they were friends. That “no meant no”, that his cell phone didn’t come into the house. I didn’t even know he had this secret life until last summer. 5 years ago I saw an inapprorpiate email to K, I told him I saw it, and we went to counseling, he denied it was anything, said they were friends. I asked him to stop and we stayed together. But I never really trusted him, I decided I would just watch and see what he did. I forgot about it for a while. Then I discovered all this new stuff last August, he was still writing to the K girl. He would tell these women he loved them. He did go to the reunion, which was after he moved out. And he also met his new girlfriend right after he moved out. He dumped the reunion girl for the girlfriend. I stopped reading his emails, he changed his passwords, he had 2 secret emails. He had facebook, and the reunion girl was all over it. I have tried dating, but I am so sad. Today is our 10th anniversary, the divorce isn’t final yet. He wrote me last week asking about the vacation house and the cats, that was all he asked about. He didn’t ask about me. He said he wanted to win me back when I served him, but same day he went and emailed the reunion girl, I saw it. He would look me in the eye and lie, he denied everything. It was really scary that he could do that. He was lying to the others, telling them he owned the store he managed, and telling them that he owned a house and land (it was actually property I bought, although his name is on half of it, and now I feel so stupid I did that). I want what I thought I had when I married him. Why did he do this? Hard to not blame myself. I know it’s unacceptable, I know I did the right thing. Some articles talk about saving the relationship. How could I ever trust him? He wasn’t interested in me very much physically for the past 5 years. I would ask him and he’d say he was too tired from work. I am not fat, I work out, and I am attractive and smart. I travel for my job. I finally stopped trying to make him want me. He didn’t want to leave me, but he wanted to cheat. How do I find my goddess again? I keep thinking he’s having this great time with the new girl, and I’m so lonely. I haven’t met any men online that I could go out with, have gone out with a few but they are losers. I do yoga and I am on the way to mending, but it’s really hard to get through the day. I am angry and feel betrayed. Insight?



  179.  #179Turtle Girl on March 9, 2010 at 9:29 am

    I want to comment on the whole “fat boy” issue. this is a big one and I have the same problem. I do not like fat men/big men. They creep me out. But then, fate people in general do and here is why. My dad was a skinny man and my mother always had “issues” about gaining weight. He used to chide her about it, make fun of her and of course-we know how well that works. She just got fatter, felt terrible about herself and ate and ate and ate her feelings.

    Nonetheless I am a member of the china Doll Army and just like my dad, with him for a role model I grew up feeling disgusted, and in judgment of the fat people. *sigh* These day sin our country there are lots and lots of overweight folks for a lot of reasons, but the bottom line is that it is their stuff, they make wrong food choices, eat their feelings, feel bad about themselves and generally it is often a self esteem issue. This to me feels uncomfortable as if I have self respect (I go to the gym, eat really good food and stay slim) and they don’t and I feel uncomfortable around them because I know that they are jealous and fearful of me. It is a strange dynamic. I do not want to be judged for being thin any more than I want to judge others for any reason.

    My BFF is a woman who is way overweight. I love here anyway, but we have had issues over this and have talked about it. I love her and want her to be slim and healthy. She is not ready. Why? I do not know. I can not be her healer or therapist. But the core is always about self. What is her fear? Why does she eat three plates full and not one? What is her trigger? Why does she not see she is hurting herself? I don’t know.

    I love her. Period. And she love me. But it has been an issue with her husband who has stated to me in private that sometimes he is grossed out my her and it hurts him to feel this way. He loves her too.

    So, dating a fat man/big man would trigger all this stuff in me. I would be afraid of him. I know that underneath all his weight is lots and lots of anger. Will that spill out on me at some point? Will I be blamed for his stuff? Will I be his trigger because I am thin? I would be afraid of him emotionally and not want to deal with all his stuff over this issue. He is keeping himself big for a reason.



  180.  #180lm on March 9, 2010 at 9:43 am

    pam,

    could you afford doggie daycare a couple of times a week? one day a week might be enough to help shift the dynamic.

    i think, as rori says, that my guy’s disqualified himself. but i do feel good sleeping with him and staying at his place. he does a great job of making me feel at home. but i am open to other men, to trips with my girlfriends, to adventures that don’t involve him. i will keep him in my life as long as i feel good about it. he is part of my river of men, but at this point he is not, as rori says, my lake.



  181.  #181Linda on March 9, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Hey Pam and IM

    I am enjoying your dialouge and learning too. I like what you are doing IM. It is right. I wish I had done this in my situation. I did some toward the end but I could have really stepped it up. The times I did stop to see my Grandson etc… he would say. Oh I have competition now I see. If I went shopping he would say, where are you… you buying the whole store? and kinda laugh. Of course, I knew at that time that he was online, or had his profile hidden. Unlike you two he did not appologize or send a letter. I would have liked that.

    Pam, I have a dog I love. He is my little buddy, truely a grand companion. He is caged when I am gone. They get used to it. I used to feel bad and run my life around him. My daughter would say MOM he is a DOG…. not a person. I got over it.
    Retrain him and claim your independance. Are you using this a crutch? a connection.

    I had that dilemma with the car and S. I knew I had to walk away and get my life back. I did not like what was going on between us and I was not getting what I wanted. I knew that the only reason he was still in my life and he was not gone totally was the car. So… I hung on to it wishing it meant something esle. Now that I have claimed my self and my ground and my property I feel respect for me now. I did not like that needy version of myself.

    WHen you get right down to it… you know in your heart things are not the same you dont feel the same. His letter was noble and may have been honest. Like I said I would have loved to get a letter like that….. but, he is not showing you or giving you what you need. Maybe he thinks he has you. S thought he had me. He never dreamed that I would show up and take the car. He turned white as a sheet!….. But he has not tried to contact me either, so I know that he really does not care about me. Sad to realize but it is reality.

    If you are getting what you need stay if not… turn your energy toward you … Maybe it will cause him to step up. If he doesnt… you may be in for a life long of mopey guy,.

    Linda



  182.  #182Orna Walters on March 9, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Daria,

    I agree with several of the ladies here who say you are simply not attracted to this man…move on!

    The SPARK of attraction is born out of the DIFFERENCES between two people. Not a difference of appearance, but a difference in what EACH PERSON REQUIRES in the relationship. This is what creates what I call “the dance of relationship.”

    The one thing I’d like to point out is what may be the MESSAGE.

    Pay attention to HOW YOU are DIFFERENT when you are with someone you are attracted to vs. someone you are not.

    How does your INNER dialog change?

    What is different about how you see/speak with Yourself?

    A big part of Circular Dating is to notice how you FEEL when you are out with someone. What did you like about how this guy treated you? What didn’t you like?

    What did you learn about You?

    I believe you will find the MESSAGE for YOU is in the answer to these questions.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  183.  #183Pam on March 9, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Linda – After reading your post I realized that I am afraid that if I leave, he won’t try and contact me which will mean really doesn’t care. I think that fear is holding me back. We have had arguments in the past when I got angry and left and days would go by and he wouldn’t call or come to my house. I always was the one to call him. And your right about my dog. I don’t like to think I’m using her as a crutch – I really worry about her being in all day. (I love Im’s idea of daycare once a week! Thank you!) That would help alleviate my guilt. I think what I need to do is breathe, continue using Rori’s tools, focus on myself and my girlfriends and not be so quick to react. That is my biggest problem. I get so angry and want to do something to retaliate to hurt him back. I think my anger is what I need to feel and accept and love.

    90% of the time I am not getting what I need (I feel bad) and the question really is for me Is that enough? No. No. No. I am worth 100%! (Now I just have to really believe that!)

    Thank you for your reply!



  184.  #184Orna Walters on March 9, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Pam,

    Years ago when I worked in entertainment there was a guy who set up a camera to stream online and watch his dog who was at home. Basically, the dog slept ALL DAY – the one excitement was when the postman came up to the door the dog would bark. Besides that…sleeping…. zzzzzzzzzzzzz. 🙂

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  185.  #185lm on March 9, 2010 at 10:26 am

    also, pam, this post made me feel curious about the difference in me now and then. i just went through the emails i exchanged with my guy after i busted him online dating. i see now how numb and out of my power i was then, how unhappy and unaccepting of myself i was! i pretended nothing was wrong and didn’t treat myself like a friend. i feel sad reading the messages but i also feel proud and i feel a lot of love for the girl i was. things are so much better for me now. i am looking back at myself with compassion. i just wanted you to know that.



  186.  #186Pam on March 9, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Orna – too funny!! Here I am thinking she would be sitting by the door pining away for me all day…..I feel better already – thanks!



  187.  #187Pam on March 9, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Im – curious – how long ago did all that happen?



  188.  #188lm on March 9, 2010 at 10:45 am

    last may.

    things really started to turn around for me when i moved into my own condo this fall and i wasn’t dependent on him for shelter. then i broke up with him over christmas and that’s when i knew i could live without him. we sloooowly got back together and now i’m pretty happy. i realise it sounds pretty unstable from this description. it was a bit of a rollercoaster! :-S



  189.  #189Lucy on March 9, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Orna – “… a difference in what EACH PERSON REQUIRES in the relationship….”

    I would love for you to explain and elaborate on that, maybe giving some examples. Thanks! 🙂

    <3
    Lucy



  190.  #190Lucy on March 9, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Daria – I feel interested in your dilemma. I feel surprised that I have not been asked out by overweight men, since I am a little overweight myself now. I get asked out by a lot of men who are TOO SKINNY for my liking! Sometimes I try to allow attraction to grow, but, for example, the one guy I had been sleeping with, his skinniness turns me off — more and more as the “newness” of being with him wears off. I finally told him in an email that “I don’t know why but I don’t feel good about having sex right now.” Was that a lie? I’m not sure if it was, because the truth is, I DON’T know why I don’t feel good about having sex with a skinny man. AND I don’t think it’s JUST because he’s skinny. Like you said, if there were other things balancing that out, maybe I would feel differently. This guy, too, is a real gentleman and very giving. But not terribly handsome and not real smooth as a lover either. I feel guilty because it’s not his fault.

    Bottom line: there’s no spark.

    I recently had a first date with a guy (Tattoo Man) and we admitted to each other afterward (email) that we liked each other and enjoyed being together but:
    my words: “I don’t see any long-term potential and don’t want to lead you on.”
    his words: “I didn’t feel a spark. That may come later but I don’t want to raise your expectations.”

    What a relief!!! So, we decided to do things together as friends. Last weekend I won tix to Love and Theft and he went with me, along with a friend and her hubby — and it felt good and enjoyable.

    Turtle Girl – Sometimes people are overweight for reasons beyond their control. When I lost my ovaries and uterus to cancer last year and could not use hormone replacement due to the cancer, I gained a lot of weight. I am doing everything I can to keep my weight as low as I can. There are a lot of complex hormonal interactions that can cause weight gain/inability to lose. I exercise 1-2 hours a day, TRY to get adequate sleep (lack of sleep is a major cause of weight gain because it creates hormonal imbalance!), eat healthfully, and take supplements. But I still weigh forty pounds more than I did before — I have to work really hard just to keep myself from gaining more. I used to be slim, even after having four babies. Yes, there are some overweight people for whom emotional issues, food addiction, etc. are the primary causes of their problem — but not ALL overweight people.

    <3
    Lucy



  191.  #191Linmayu on March 9, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Pam–in the letter that you received, I felt a lot of turmoil, like something was being hidden. He seems to be saying, “This is who I am and what I do, and I’m not willing to address or change it, but I want you to accept me for who I am because it would make me feel good.” He is telling you who he is. As far as red flags, your feelings, and what he does when you express your feelings, would give you the best indicator of whether something is off. (I think it is, fwiw.)

    Daria and Turtle Girl, I have to say I don’t like overweight men either, and it’s NOT because of their weight, but because of the other characteristics that almost always seem to go along with it, whether it’s a lack of confidence, buried emotions, a tendency to “throw his weight around,” or simply not being in touch with his own body (the biggest one for me; sex is a physical thing, and I feel grossed out by the thought of having it with someone who doesn’t care about his physical self).

    I’m no doctor, but I would venture a guess that these inner issues are the root cause of almost all weight problems.

    If I met a big guy who was as happy as the Laughing Buddha and was as athletic as I am, I doubt the extra weight would bother me one bit.



  192.  #192Pam on March 9, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Linmayu – great observation – Thank you. He has been saying recently, It’s not who I am, I’m not a cheater or a liar, I’ve never hurt anyone in my life. BUT the one thing he never ever says is “maybe I’m wrong and could do something to change that”.

    Maybe he is so toxic that he just can’t or won’t see it leaving me to wonder if he is redemable…..



  193.  #193BigLuv on March 9, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    I really liked what Erika said about the men we attract being mirrors. I definitely have to say this about my own relationships.

    And my favorite feeling message of Daria’s is when she says:

    I really enjoy being treated like a lady… and I’m loathe to give that up. And I’m not feeling any sparks right now… I don’t feel comfortable kissing or getting romantic.

    I think youre one big soppy teddy bear cuddle guy and i like strong tough superman men who can do springs and leaps and acrobatic kung fu

    This message is the truth. It’s all feeling. There’s nothing to get upset over. A guy I was seeing emailed me to say something very similar to this (I am a BBW) and I let him go with love. I gave him the props for even taking the time to put words together when a lot of guys just pull a vanishing act.

    Peace,

    BL



  194.  #194Orna Walters on March 9, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Lucy,

    The connection that we feel when we’re attracted to someone – the SPARK – is created because that person is different from us.

    I am a Professional Hand Analyst – non-predictive palmistry (www.GPSforYourSoul.com) and there is a TON of information on how we are with our heart written in the palm. I feel one of the most important things is to know what you REQUIRE in relationship, and the Heart Line in the palm tells me what that requirement is.

    For example I require Emotional Connection and my husband requires Personal Freedom. The dance of our relationship is for us to BOTH get our need met.

    When you ballroom dance there is a space between you – that space is respect – it is the space that allows your partner to be separate from you. My husband has had different life experiences then me, he is separate from me. I give him the space to be different, to get his need met.

    When we sacrifice our NEED we get resentful. Sooooo many women are brought up to sacrifice for the good of the relationship – this does not work. We cannot sacrifice ourselves – when we do, that is the part we play in the demise of the relationship. We must know what we require and see that we are fulfilled.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  195.  #195Lucy on March 9, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Thanks for your response, Orna.

    Are you saying that you identify ONE need as being more important to you than all other needs?

    For example, I would think that both you and your husband would need BOTH emotional connection and personal freedom, but are you saying that you need the emotional connection a bit more than he does, and he needs the freedom a bit more than you do?

    For myself, for example, just looking at those two needs, I feel that I have an equal need for both. And of course there are many other things I need in a relationship as well.

    <3
    Lucy



  196.  #196Orna Walters on March 9, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Some people have more than one need (if their heart line is different in each hand). Often times that can send mixed messages to your partner (Come here – Go away!).

    The Heart Line identifies what your non-negotiable need is. It is the thing you MUST have and never ever sacrifice. The heart line will also tell me IF the need has been sacrificed to the point of becoming resentful.

    We are complex beings, so I understand what you mean when you identify with needing both of these things. There are many many layers to our being and when I do a Hand Analysis Session I get to see all of the layers.

    My husband and I are in the process of writing our book (Creating Love On Purpose) and there will be a whole chapter on this. Please ask me more questions as this will assist me as I write. 🙂

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  197.  #197Rori Raye on March 9, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Allie, I want to welcome you, and write a long answer for you in a new post. I’ll copy the whole comment and then talk about it…Basically – I want you to get that this is NOT YOUR FAULT! We’ll help you move on from this – just read all you can here, and get the RSS feed so you can look for the new post. Targeting Mr. Right is the total answer for you – just remember – this is about healing yourself – not about finding Mr. Right – he’ll show up soon enough. Just get the Diva idea, learn the Tools, and practice with every man who shows up. Love, Rori



  198.  #198Daria on March 9, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Okay like I said somewhere else –

    I realized that I WOULD NOT BE attracted to this man at this point if he were Skinny!

    So its something else… going to find the message.



  199.  #199Tina on March 9, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    “The Heart Line identifies what your non-negotiable need is.”

    Orna, what’s a non-negotiable need?



  200.  #200Orna Walters on March 9, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Tina:

    The thing you MUST have. It is NOT negotiable. 🙂

    I hope my info helped… I am feeling like I did not do a good job explaining it… 🙁

    I am feeling that complex ideas & systems are difficult to cover in short notes. (heavy sigh)

    Okay, off to bed. I’ll catch up with all you Beautiful Goddesses tomorrow.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  201.  #201Tina on March 9, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Orna, I’m “getting” it I think. Self love would be a need for me. I need to love myself, It’s a must!



  202.  #202Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Pam, I was re reading your letter, I dont hear any mention of your FEELINGS I’m not even sure if he acknowledged your feelings? This letter does nothing for me 🙂



  203.  #203Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:19 am

    I mean “his” letter. Your “doing” the right thing by taking care of yourself and your feelings 🙂



  204.  #204heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Orna, Tina – I’m fascinated by this! I feel like faxing my palm!

    I’m going to journal around this. I’ll start here:

    I need to be accepted as I am.
    I need to feel part of widening circles.
    I need to be touched and held.
    I need to know who you are, where you start and stop.
    I need to experience your love-language in honest words and actions.
    I need space to be creative and to know you’ll still be there.
    I need nourishment, warmth and laughter.
    I need to feel stimulated intellectually (? not sure how to phrase that)
    I need lots of sex 🙂

    I want to look forward to shared activities
    I want to go out for meals, explore new places and visit friends.
    I want to meet your family and friends.
    I want to be on the same wavelength intellectually as you.

    OK that’s a start. I’ll go away and explore which needs are really wants, or which wants are really needs. I also use spontaneous imagery with myself and with clients.

    So if I was my own client, I’d be saying – Heartbeat, see what image comes up for you when I say ‘your non-negotiable need’ – don’t judge it or edit it, just sketch it however feels right for a few minutes
    xx



  205.  #205Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:23 am

    cool idea heartbeat! yeah, I’ll do the same thing.



  206.  #206heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:27 am

    I’m waaay behind catching up on reading the comments…. Oh my, the dog story had me in stitches! When I’m on holiday, I get kinda homesick and wish the cats could answer the phone 🙂

    Daria, I agree – if you don’t feel attracted, move on. I met a lovely guy online and we chatted a few times before meeting. I liked his pics. But when we met I wasn’t attracted at all, and I knew I never would be. If I feel ugh about kissing a man, that’s my clue. So I told him right away ‘I’m not feeling the chemistry’ and he thanksed me for being honest and took me to dinner anyway. And yes, I felt sad inside for a bit.

    Aarrgh I gotta go to work now….



  207.  #207heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Yay Tina! I feel excited now xx



  208.  #208Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:37 am

    My short list,

    I need to feel free
    I need to feel good
    I need to feel not needy
    I need a lot of love
    I need honesty
    I need safety



  209.  #209heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:37 am

    next step is explore the image – what is it or is it abstract? colours, shapes, position on page? see what words come up for you in describing it eg. scratchy, dense, faint, going over and over – see how you’ve used the materials. And very often, a lot is revealed by little anomalies – like a corned not quite joined up, or a missing foot (if it’s a creature) or a tiger that looks like a moggie when you draw it.

    no judging or going in your head! just let the words spill, BE CURIOUS….. then

    ‘bridge’ to your life – ask yourself ‘what does missing left foot speak to me?’ ‘what does purple say to me’ ‘is there a way I show my tiger as a moggie?’

    and so on. No editing, judging or stuffing it down. Better still, find a friend who will not interrupt and will take notes for you. And if they are person-centred and DON@T INTERPRET their stuff on your image, they could also get ‘curious’ and ‘notice’.

    I notice that colour is also here. I notice this part has no marks at all. I notice you’ve drawn over that bit again.

    Here ends today’s art therapy lesson. Ding ding!!

    Time for tea xx



  210.  #210heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:42 am

    and no hunting round for a ‘better’ image. I once got a shrivelled penis as my image, and would have much preferred a golden unicorn 🙂 or even a not-shrivelled penis 🙂



  211.  #211heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:43 am

    OK I really gotta go now – hey I can put mascara on and STILL post on this blog!! xxxxxx
    See you later alligator



  212.  #212Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:46 am

    ooooooooooooooooh, I get it now 🙂 Thank you Orna and heartbeat. My non negotiable needs – nods head, light bulbs flickering off and on.



  213.  #213Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:47 am

    heartbeat your awesome!



  214.  #214Tina on March 10, 2010 at 12:52 am

    I have needs hehe! non negotiable ones 🙂 god I feel special! guess what? I have non negotiable needs *big grins



  215.  #215heartbeat on March 10, 2010 at 12:53 am

    Love you, Tina! xx



  216.  #216Bella on March 10, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Hi and thank you for that. Saying how that is and sharing this is really a privilege in my view. Its funny that I receive this information now when I most need to. I have a guy who asked for an exclusive relationship which after some time in considering agreed. However now 4 months on realise he is still Internet dating. I am not sure how to deal/address now so went onto the Rori site tonight to ask same question.
    I am planning my speech and will go there but am confused about how to do the speech effectively.
    I know I will be OK given what I already learnt about me. I think that’s what is the most important thing when you are facing these challenges.
    Good luck with that and just know you will be OK..sooo trust that inherent knowledge and you will be fine
    Love xxx



  217.  #217Pam on March 10, 2010 at 6:09 am

    I want to express my needs and wants and put them in an email and say – Think you can handle it?! Any advice on communicating via writing instead of in person. Sometimes I feel as if I’m always the one to want to talk – even when I’m using feeling messages. It’s feel heavy…….



  218.  #218Jeannette on March 10, 2010 at 6:23 am

    I think you have to talk in person to see the body language and get the whole affect.



  219.  #219Pam on March 10, 2010 at 6:31 am

    Argghhhhhhhhh – I’m so tired of expressing myself and getting nothing back except for brief periods of affection. Maybe I’m starting to get bored. I dropped off my dog this morning and looked at him in his bathrobe and listened to him talk and thought “ick”. It’s always all about him. Boring.



  220.  #220Linda on March 10, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Oh Pam. Keepin it real. Keep your reality glasses on and dont take them off. Keep looking thru them.

    You will see things that were always there that you made allowances for or were not totally aware of that just did not fit most likely. I am in that place right now. We certainly can not live our lives in well “if” this was or happened, and putting our lives on hold till it happens…. I did that for 20 years of my 29 year marrage. Guess what I would still be waiting. I just had to finally realize that the things I needed and wanted most, my (then husband) did not have the capacity to give. He was not knit together that way and asking that of was a huge burden and disservice to him. Maybe I bailed but emotionally I has been bored and shut down for years.

    I have been out on my own for 3 years now. It has not been an emotional bed of roses. I am growing and walking toward what seems elusive so far but I know is there. A balanced loving committed relationship. Sometimes I feel afraid at other times I feel confident.

    We are all on our journey and we have each other here to become the best we can be. You are not alone.

    Linda



  221.  #221Orna Walters on March 10, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Heartbeat and Tina,

    I LOVE the image and going with that as it happens organically and authentically! Yay! Really cool stuff!

    🙂 <3

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  222.  #222Pam on March 10, 2010 at 10:05 am

    I am listening to a cd series entitled “This I believe” which is a collection of personal philosophies by random people. This one struck a cord: (man speaking about his daughter who is a trapeze artist) “After 10 years doing her act, she was no longer learning anything new and she was bored and if she was bored, there was no point in subjecting her body to that stress, so she changed her act. She risked failure and public humiliation in order to feed her soul. If she can do that 15 feet in the air, we should be able to do it too.” It was a WOW moment for me.



  223.  #223Orna Walters on March 10, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Pam,

    I have one of the This I Believe Books. Powerful stuff.

    Each of us is on our trapeze of life. FEAR is the thing that hold most of us back.

    FREE Audio to overcome fear at http://www.GPSforYourSoul.com titled “Make Fear Your Friend.”

    If you get it – please let me know what you think.

    Big Hug,
    Orna



  224.  #224Pam on March 10, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Thanks Orna! I will check out the link tonight from home. (my work server is preventing me access).

    Some of the stories on the cd’s have moved me to tears.

    I would like to take FEAR by the hand and have a nice long walk and talk……



  225.  #225Rori Raye on March 10, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Bella – Welcome – and you’ll be just fine with simply saying you’re feeling uncomfortable with the exclusive thing here so soon…giving the “No Boyfriend” speech simply, smiling, and Circular Dating immediately. Don’t go to the place of making him wrong…just know you made a mistake agreeing to exclusivity and take it back and keep your options open. He’ll jump to… Love, Rori



  226.  #226softy on April 18, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Rori you are brilliant.. I love this ( from your eLetter )

    “We must ALWAYS keep our hearts open to
    everyone, to our man and other men, too – but we
    have to make sure that our hearts BELONG ONLY TO
    US. We SHARE our heart with our men and with the
    world – but it BELONGS to us”



  227.  #227Melwin on May 2, 2010 at 10:28 am

    it really comes down to how much you want to be with that person!



  228.  #228lm on May 23, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Pam – I’m just wondering if you’re doing ok.

    my update…I found that rori was right…I ended up losing most of the good, yummy feelings i had for my man. i have ended it but still see him a few times a week. i realised that there were many other problems in addition to the online dating. he was also sort of judgmental and mean and hadn’t said he loved me in a looong time. he just didn’t seem…all there anymore. i started to feel really angry at him and wasn’t really attracted to him anymore. what a roller coaster ride! my emotions really got a workout. i feel excited to do new things and feel nervous (good nervous!) to start CDing (just got Targeting Mr. Right and it’s FABULOUS!!)

    hope you are doing well.



  229.  #229Rosalie on July 6, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Allie (Comment 178. this page) wrote here a very powerful story. Her life seems to be collapsed. She was cheated, lyed to. She was taken to be a complete fool. Used as a free “girl” and humiliated. I’m sad that nobody offered her a serious advice, help, ide etc. Some Circular Dating won’t solve this problem I’m afraid. He pulled the rug out of her feet.

    Allie, if you still read the site, please give some follow-up about your story. I would like to know that you are allright.



  230.  #230Rori Raye on July 6, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Rosalie – Hi – (and I took your last name off here – so when you come back to comment, please stay as just Rosalie…) Actually – Circular Dating WILL solve the problem, because what Allie needs most of all is some experience, some perspective, and to stop focusing on any one man – regardless – so she can begin to trust herself again. Nothing ever has to do with the man – it’s always about us…Love, Rori