Does Chemistry Rule Your Love Life?

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Here’s a conversation with Kerrie – we’re working through “Mr. Nice Guy” who doesn’t do the chemistry job, and “Mr. Sexy” who does…and how it all shows us what our patterns are that are holding us back in love and how we can undo them without throwing all our dreams aside…

“Rori, Met Dave a month ago. He is very smart, very successful, reasonably good looking, and all of our interests match up perfectly. I seriously thought I had met my Mr Right. Plus, he fell right in love with me, adores me, wants to take care of me forever and everything that you say a man should do for a woman. Lucky me (again). But he lives pretty far away.  We had a fabulous email and phone relationship to start off with, but because we don’t live close to each other we did not get together for a few weeks and then had to wait another few weeks for another get-together.  But in that time he emailed me that he loved me and started talking about our forever together.

 My question has to do with the fact that when he spent time with me in person I got turned off by some of his mannerisms and he felt very clingy.  I felt really cramped and turned off.In person, he came across as a little presumptuous. He is brilliantly smart but the mannerisms gave so much more ego feeling than I felt over the phone. I feel like I can give him feedback on feeling cramped and I already did. He is understanding about that. I also told him I felt like a lot of decisions were being made (about our future) before I had a chance to develop the feelings that would go along with those kinds of decisions.  He got defensive and felt like I contributed to those decisions (by not disagreeing with things he would say).

 But, my question has to do with the mannersims (like hand steeples) that make me cringe and not be physically attracted. Do I just walk away because I’m no longer feeling attracted even though everything was so great up until that point (same interests, same desires, he seems great in every other way, his wanting to take care of me, and his love for me)? How do you give feeling messages on that kind of thing? Should I even do that? Am I being too judgmental and that means I have a problem? How can I work on my reaction to that kind of thing?

He’s feeling like he lost me and I feel awful. He says he is sure I am THE ONE. If I can make this work, I’d like to, but I can’t manufacture feelings. I feel like I COULD have feelings if those mannerisms were not there. I feel like I just want him to not put on airs. That seems like a really rude thing to say and, like I said, I’m not sure if it’s just my problem anyway but it’s keeping me from a potentiallly good thing.

From Me:

Kerrie…you need to spend more time with him.  You really can talk yourself into loving these mannerisms – if you touch his face, and you get closer emotionally – you will come to love them- HOWEVER – he STILL might not be the man for you…you need some TIME, and some proximity.  Can you give him a chance?  You need a few months…and if you kiss him and let your hormones get involved…you’ll find him charming.  You can also talk to him about some of what you feel isn’t genuine, but maybe he’s just nervous – and when you and he are alone together, he’s different – you need some time to find that out and know more about him.

These could be things you need to GET PAST – or these could be red flags…it’s hard to know after such a short time…again – you need casual alone time with him to know…lots of it…Love, Rori

From Kerrie

“Rori, Based on your advice I am giving Dave more time.  He is totally perfect on paper (we are a total match in almost every way), he fell in love with me immediately and wants to take care of me and is planning our life together.  Very, very nice guy.  Just his mannerisms combined with a little bit of clinginess is turning me off romantically. 

I can get turned on with him physically although there too he is all about me and I find myself wishing I felt like he was getting carried away with his own hormones and enjoying himself.  I’m sure he is but I don’t feel like I’m having as much fun if I’m not totally turning him on so much that he CANT HELP but stop focusing on me every second.  But, I digress from my real question.  That was just context.  So, I’ve been spending time with Dave and seeing if I could make it work as you suggested.

Today, I met a guy in a coffee shop.  I didn’t think much of it except that he was super super cute and sexy.  But after talking a few minutes he asked me out and I said yes.  So anyway, this guy is just way, way too sexy.  I’m guessing he might be a player although I don’t know, of course…just has that look. So anyway, now what? I’m supposing you willl just tell me to go out with both guys, practice my tools and see what happens.  But, I’m guessing Mr Super Sexy is not the right guy but I will find him much more attractive.  Mr Dave is super nice, super sweet, and will make the most unbelievable commitment to me but he just doesn’t know how to set a mood.  He thinks we can just “decide” that we are right for each other and he doesn’t know how to allure me, act desireable (he acts more like he’s trying too hard).  Mr Super Sexy will have me in a tither within 3 minutes I am sure of it. I need advice.

From me:

Your mr. right may be somewhere between these too – but think about it – it doesn’t turn you on that he’s all about you? I think THAT’S sexy!  Yes – I give you the advice you thought I would….

From Kerrie:

Thanks, I guess I was just worried about making the mistake of falling for Mr Sexy over hormones.  Not sure how the hormones don’t point you in the wrong direction if we have a fear of intimacy…don’t they point you toward the unavailable ones?  And, is that why Dave is turning me off?  But, maybe I HAVE learned something.  I just rememebered some of your stuff from the CDs and if my boundaries are good, my heart is open and my radar is working, I won’t get into trouble.  I figured I’d tell Mr Sexy early on that I’m looking for something deep and connected and committed and see what happens.  Thanks.  It can be that simple I suppose.  I do feel like I have a radar now I just don’t know how to not push guys like Dave away.

From me:

Good for you being aware…just keep giving Dave a chance and see if you can overcome your subconscious drives to hurt yourself with an unavailable man, or a man who doesn’t love you deeply and truly….Your instinct is to give a man like this short shrift and to judge him harshly in many ways…I still do that with my husband when I’m feeling frustrated with something inside ME! ..I have to watch my inner voices all the time, and go for love, forgiveness for myself…all that good stuff..Love, Rori

From Kerrie:

Can I say this to Dave?

Dave, I feel like we have remarkable similarities in personality and interests and that feels really comfortable and nice.  But I am also feeling like I can take you for granted in many ways and I don’t want to feel that way.  I want to feel a litle bit like I have to win you over, to seduce you.  And although I feel lke there are many reasons to be optimistic, I also feel like it’s really early to be planning our lives together.  We do have a lot of good stuff to start with and build from but I just don’t feel ready to say this is forever.  I feel like by moving so fast to those decisions we skipped by the part where we get to develop our romantic feelings.  I’d like to go back and start over and go more slowly, spend some time together, and see what happens and let things unfold.  What do you think?

 Rori, I want to feel some mystery, some allure.  Is that my fear speaking or is that normal?  Can I tell him I want more allure?  Do I mention that we are not exclusive anymore or is that sufficiently implied. He asked early on that we  be exclusive.  I know I made the mistake of agreeing but I was pretty excited early on.  I also felt resentful that he wasn’t more concerned about making sure I was in the same place by seeing my face in person before talking about all his feelings and plans. It felt like he just presumed and I didn’t like that.  Am I being critical?  Can/should I tell him about that?  I’m having a little bit of a hard time not feeling that resentment.

 This is what I would say to Mr. Super Sexy:

Mike, I’m having a really awesome time with you and you are sexy as heck.  That’s why I feel like I need to tell you that I’m looking for my happily ever after man not just a boyfriend.  I feel like I’m ready to make that kind of commitment and to have someone to love and share my life with and have a deep connection that grows stonger with time.  So, I’d like to take things slowly and see where they develop.  What do you think? 

From me: 

1. Mr. Sexy has not asked you for any commitment – so the only thing you need to bring up is if you turn him down for sex…and then this speech is fine…but I would work out in my mind first if you’re going to have sex with him (perhaps you already have, and that’s fine..) not to put any strings attached to it at all.

2. Dave just needs some David DeAngelo “how to get the girl” stuff – he doesn’t know how to play it. If he PLAYED it better – played hard to get – he’d interest you more. So – what does that say about you?

If you can work with your head and find out what the REAL turn on is –is it someone who wants to marry you? Have children with you? Are you at the place in your life where you want that and all you need is the man? What are you willing to trade-off for? Is it really a trade-off? Physical chemistry is overrated – you can develop that with ANYONE!!! Eroticism is something else, and perhaps that’s not a component here.

I was with a good man once who just couldn’t ring my chimes – but it wasn’t because of chemistry physically – it was because mentally and emotionally he just wasn’t up to my level – there was no way I could have had a deep connection with him. My husband is smart. I can connect with that. But NO man is as evolved as we women are…you just have to find the thing about him that turns you on…and if you can’t find anything, after another month or two…then you’ll have to give him up…but see how long you can do this…also – do some imagination work, where you imagine having sex with him, slowly, and let yourself relax and sink into it slowly…you can actually get yourself turned onto him that way, because you get your oxytocin flowing for him….really – it’s all in our heads.

 Not to say he’s RIGHT – but the ‘allure” thing is not where you want to focus. If you want…go show him “” or other “seduction” and pickupartist sites and confess that that stuff works on you…and that nice guys don’t…and you feel embarrassed about it, and you want to feel all that stuff for him, and the nice is getting in your way and you want to get past that and work on that in yourself and you need some time…

 But I’d do the work on me first, and tell him about it later if that doesn’t work. Basically – you’re telling him to get some ‘personal authority” and start playing games, which will work on you….Love, Rori

From Kerrie:

That was really helpful. Thank you.

 I SO see that I have a problem and it’s manifested by not being attracted to men who can “do it”. I just don’t know what to do about it. I feel like I’ve made some progress..even a lot….by at least seeing some of it and wanting something different… but obviously not enough to give Dave a real chance. I will try the exercise you gave me…imagining the sex….thanks so much for that suggestion because I’ve done it a little and I feel like it could work. He doesn’t turn me off sexually, just emotionally. I feel like I can’t respect him when he follows me around.

I haven’t even gone out with Mr Sexy yet, just agreed to. Met him yesterday in a coffee shop and he’s texting me today that he’s thinking about me and it definitely makes my heart race…a real turnon. I suppose if I want to psychoanalyze THIS..he is distracting me from a real relationship with Dave. He doesn’t consciously feel that just feels awesome but I can intellectually see the potential analysis. To give Dave a real chance should I drop Mr Sexy?

I think I understand how eroticism is perhaps different than physical chemistry (more mental?) but why do you bring it up? I didn’t understand why you even said perhaps that isn’t a component here. I have felt in the back of my head that a committed loving relationship could be a place to do a lot more in the bedroom in the context of love and trust. Is that because of the difference you are noting? I don’t have much trouble in the sex/eroticisim department.

 It was also extremely helpful for you to say that NO man is as evolved as we are. That helps set expectations. But, I want to look up to him in some ways. I guess you are saying to look for that thing/turnon. Love the suggestion.

 Lastly, your comment about what is the real turnon here was an eye opener. Very powerful paragraph. I may have some soul searching to do about what I want. Maybe I don’t really want it. I’ve been shut down a good portion of my life.,,it’s so hard to know…and why I appreciate your messages and ideas so much. I do feel I know a lot more than I used to and I feel my boundaries really tightening up…I don’t need to please men anymore and I feel empowered to wait for what I want. But, am I getting to the brink and then shrinking back? Or, could I just be normal and not want it?

 And thank you for being honest about the allure thing. I needed to hear it. I just don’t want to get turned off by him but it is in my head, I guess. MY problem, not his. I’m taking as my assignments is to imagine the sex with him and to try to find the turnon. Any other assignments that you feel would be good for me? I am completely ready to take responsiblity for my stuff and do some work …I’m still not entirely sure what to do except some imagining. I so really appreciate that you are there to provide the guidance and results that I feel like would take years with a counselor. Thanks.

 xo from my heart…you are making such a difference in my life….. Kerrie

From Rori…we’re not finished yet with Kerrie’s story, and I look forward to what happens next…This is a topic that’s dear to my heart – trying to answer the question “What do I do with a great guy that I’m just not feeling it for?”

I don’t want you to ever “force” yourself into something – even a good man who seems to truly want and love you – that’s way too much effort.

If you take the “tack” of EXPERIMENTING, though, and see what you can learn about yourself – what you want, what you feel, what your priorities are – and can get enough time to really find out who he IS without investing yourself too deeply…that’s great.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 7:30 am

    thanks, Amber 😀

  2.  #2AmberS on December 14, 2010 at 7:34 am


    Top o’ the morning to you!


    Okay- now I gotta go read the post. LOL

    Thank you for your post 439 on the other thread.

    I hope your walk last night left you feeling fine & frisky.

  3.  #3Leo on December 14, 2010 at 7:50 am

    I can relate to this story so much…
    My first boyfriend ( i think it still counts) would do anything for me. And i truly believe he loved me. But I didn’t like it.
    I mean… of course did I like that he took me out for dinner and payed, we went to the movies, he brought me roses, he cherished me.
    But… I felt soooo turned of by it. The actions by itself I enjoyed a whole lot. And he was the sweetest guy ever and the best son-in-law my parents could have imagined. But…he just didn’t do it for me.
    Of course I want to have all this…and I do want to get compliments…but when he said this one sentence I was totally done with him. He said ” Your are the sexiest, nicest, most beautiful woman on earth”.
    I know I am sexy, and lovable, and nice and beautiful….Oh yes I am.
    But not to EVERYONE in the world though…. And I didnt like this status. He did NOT think about HIM at all. And that is a total turn off.

    I love getting compliments, flowers, being cherished and loved…but he didn’t seem to love himself.

    And there is the thing Rori teaches us…
    I can totally flip it around.
    I dont want to be around a person that gives everything up for me, gives up himself for me.
    So why would anybody love me if I’d be doing this???

    Hahaha…soooo cool. I feel so awesome right now… omg.
    I should have thought about it this way before.
    Then I might not have made the mistakes I had been doing 😀

    But no: (also) focus on ME

  4.  #4Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Whew! Just barely made it back on top… 😉

    I’m going to read the post now. I just made a long one to Meemee on the last thread. I hope she sees it! I was very, very concerned to come to the blog this morning and read her last group of posts.

    And surprise, surprise, I’m still susceptible, after all these years, to my own “unfortunate attachment” but wiser too… Although the bad stuff doesn’t feel any better ( 😥 ) it’s easier to “do what you gotta do”… sometimes…

    Maurice Chevalier – “I’m Glad I’m Not Young Anymore”


  5.  #5Ella on December 14, 2010 at 8:28 am

    I want to write about my feelings with Mr Barman to explore the situation and how I really feel.

    How do I feel?

    Drawn, attracted, loved and good when I am with him, a lil’ touch of anxious, a lil touch of unsure / resistance.

    A lil fear in case he is bad for me…

    Why do I have this fear?

    Hmmm, maybe I have doubts about his ability to take care of me emotionally… why?

    because I sense he is not whole yet. I sense unresolved stuff in him. And sometimes that feels like him wanting something, instead of giving to me…

    Sometimes feels like a neediness, and sometimes makes me question if he could really love truly and deeply… but that is not really my business actually! Only he will know this.

    That is getting into his head! No Ella, focus on you and how he treats you only!!

    The question is how toxic could that be to me?

    Well who knows but as long as I stay aware and check in with my feelings all the time and use the tools I will remain safe and well.

    But why anxious? Am I investing?? If so that would explain anxious because I would be attached to an outcome!

    If I am just exploring there is no outcome.

    Relax, sit back, watch, listen, follow my feelings, trust my boundaries, be suprised!

    When I feel his heart it feels good.

    Maybe there is some chance for healing here.

    Maybe not.

    I wonder what will happen next!

  6.  #6tinque on December 14, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Another thing to consider here is maybe Kerrie or someone like her is not attracted to Dave because he IS a nice guy. Maybe she’s unaccustomed to being treated well.

    So many of us came to equate love with feeling bad or anxious thanks to our upbringing or lack thereof, so we seek the same in our love relationships, for isn’t that what love came to mean?

    So when someone comes along and treats us like a queen, we have a hard time with this to the point of it actually being a turn off.


  7.  #7Ella on December 14, 2010 at 8:39 am

    I realise something now… all guys are trying to do their best for me…

    I keep thinking back to Mr Action Man, who was a real step up guy and nothing was too much trouble for him.

    Well he was much shorter than me and I couldn’t get past it. I also felt slightly bored and annoyed/turned off in his prescence.

    But I made some real progress with him because I talked about how I was feeling and he did what he could to fix stuff and seeing how it all worked like that was cool.

    Then I think about how perfect things felt with my ex at the beginning and how badly wrong that ended up and I begin to realise that not much of it is actually about the man.

    Well he has to be a reasonably good fit and have my best interests at heart.

    But it all has totally to do with me, how I am feeling and communicating, and the health of the relationship itself… it has everything to do with that.

    And intimacy is built in that space… the relationship space.

    I wonder how I would have felt if Mr Action Man had been taller? Probably still slightly put off by his talking about himself etc but that is workable with feeling messages.

    He was not an assh*le –

    But it makes me wonder about all the possibilities there are out there with men for me… which makes me want to keep my options open all the more…

  8.  #8Ella on December 14, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Sardines as Siren food??

    Yes I think so…

    Bread? Not so much, but at least fresh baked, wholegrain bread is slightly better.

    Pesto (on the bread)? No, not really… could be if it was homemade though!

  9.  #9Mercedes on December 14, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Tinque: You and I had the same thoughts on this. I wonder too if she’s ever been treated well…sometimes not knowing what that feels like can be a bit uncomfortable…to the point of yes, turnoff if you can’t embrace it.

    I do agree with Rori soooo much when she says this needs more time though. It feels like Kerrie would easily rush into a relationship that is doomed to fail but is hesitant to give time to one that looks so positive. I say slow it down with nice guy…feeling messages will probably get him open to backing off just a little and see where things go. I know I’ve found myself attracted to men who were “not my type” for whatever reason because, as time went on, their personalities overshadowed anything that might have been “wrong” with them in the beginning.

    Much Love,

  10.  #10AmberS on December 14, 2010 at 9:19 am

    SLV @4


    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It freaked me out that the male lead ended up as a Bond villain in Octopussy. Like, dude, where’s Gigi!?!?

  11.  #11Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Hi Sirens
    Thanks for all your comments. I am going through them.
    I have got something different to share.
    This is about the Chocolate man. As I was away and he was busy with some conference we did not get time to meet or go for coffee as we usually do. But he was in touch and sent me mails asking about my trip.
    This evening he invited me to his house for a coffee and also he said he wants to talk to me. I knew he is planning to quit his job and I went to his place and over a coffee he talked about some recent issues in office because of which he is planning to quit.

    I told him I am also planning to quit the job and he asked me about my plans. He was visibly upset and angry with some people at the office. He offered to make dinner but I was not planning to stay there for long. We had a nice long chat about our research and passions and the struggle all of us are going through to finish research and stuff like that. He asked my opinions about some of the things he wanted to raise in a meeting before he resigns and I gave him my honest opinion. The chat was pleasant and I felt very much at ease.

    I had to leave early because a friend of mine was coming for dinner and I said goodbye to him. He said it was a pleasure talking to me.
    And as usual asked me “Don’t you want a hug” and I smiled and said “Yes” and he gave me a hug. I found nothing unnatural in this because over the last one month we had been talking to each other and was comfortable with each other. He hugged me for long.
    He is a tall person and when I hugged him I found it difficult to hold balance and I told him “You are tall”. Then he asked me “Do you want me to lift you”. I brushed him aside saying “Oh you have been to gym lately and don’t forget I am 62 kg”.
    But the next moment he lifted me and held me for some time like that. It was unexpected and I did not know what to say or do. Both of us were speechless. He said sorry and then said he will drop me at the bus station because it was getting dark and was raining. We walked and I decided I will not bring it up. He asked me if I am feeling bad for what he did and I said I feel shocked and embarrassed. He said “You wanted to be lifted up” and I got enraged and asked him what he means by that. He apologized again and said at that moment he wanted to do it and felt I would not mind. He said “Please do not read too much into what I said”.

    Then we walked in silence and he sort of tried to lighten the situation by telling me random funny things.

    I just want to share this with you. I do not feel bad that he did such a thing. I don’t feel he did it with evil intentions. But I feel embarrassed. 🙁


  12.  #12Soul Sista on December 14, 2010 at 10:09 am

    i love this thread…i’m taking it all in as i am very judgemental about men and if that initial spark isn’t like fireworks i dismiss them…except for the one now…he pursued me for 6 months..until circumstances tore us apart 6 months later. but he’s still in there…and talk about SEXY. sexy, bad boy with a HUGE heart. just can’t find his way to come see me…too bad.

  13.  #13Ella on December 14, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Just came off phone with Mr Barman…

    He wanted to see me tonight. As I have been ill we hadn’t made any plans. He wanted to see me last night too and I said no bc I was ill and we hadn’t made a plan in advance.

    Well I do want to see him but actually I feel too ill to go out. So I said I would feel better to stay in and look after myself.

    He said I should let him look after me and that he would get me some healthy food to make me feel better. I felt a bit unheard.

    Well I was still feeling kinda, probably no… but didn’t say anything as I was waiting to see if he would to see if he would start talking about something else.

    Then he said I was being vagued and it felt like he was being impatient… he said he couldn’t stay on the phone any longer as he just popped out to call me on his break.

    He told me to mull it over and he will call me at 7pm when he finishes to see what I want to do.

    Well I am going to say No, I do not want to meet up tonight. It would feel better to stay at home by the fire. But it would feel really good to see him soon. What does he think?

  14.  #14Rosa on December 14, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Hi Meemee , i posted on the other thread
    also to Brenda and LiFe!

  15.  #15Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 10:24 am

    10: AmberS says:
    SLV @4
    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You’re welcome.

    I love that movie too, “Gigi” (1958)

    Here’s another goodie!

    Maurice Chevalier & Hermione Gingold – “I Remember It Well” (Gigi) 1958)


  16.  #16Ella on December 14, 2010 at 10:27 am


    I feel angry….

    No, I will not come out when I am not feeling well and if you have regard for me and want the best for me you will respect that!


    I feel like Graaaaw, BIG lioness raw!

    Respect my time… fix up and put me first or feel the wrath of the Siren goddess!

  17.  #17Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Saw it just now. Going back and reading them
    Thanks a lot

  18.  #18Rosa on December 14, 2010 at 10:43 am

    SLV “And surprise, surprise, I’m still susceptible, after all these years, to my own “unfortunate attachment” but wiser too… Although the bad stuff doesn’t feel any better ( 😥 ) it’s easier to “do what you gotta do”… sometimes…”


    This time has been easier to cope with G-Mans desertion. My male friend who had Birthday dinner with all the family last week -cooked by very present and wonderful , charming G-man – said some very validating things to me that helped.

    He said G_Mans behaviour to me was inexcusable and unfathomable – this helped immensely because I realise that I had NORMALISED his actions so often!!!!!

    He also said it was obvious that G-Man had real feelings for me – this helped me feel I had not been misreading things totally.He just cant do a relationship.

    And he added frequent and complimentary adjectives about me that just helped my bruised self esteem somewhat.

    AND I have totally deleted all contact details for him and I have saved my story from the other thread so i can re-read it and paste it on the inside of my forehead next time he tries to make contact.

    I will call my friend -man if G tries anything next week. I dont know whether the ?ex- GF ? back -with GF actually received my mail, no feedback but I feel clear within myself.

  19.  #19Ella on December 14, 2010 at 10:44 am


    I agree with Daria,

    I think just ignore him unless he invites you on a formal date. Then check in with your feelings to see whether you want to go.

    Don’t get lost in thoughts/words.

    It always helps me to come on here and riff to work through my feelings about something… not my thoughts or analysis, but just getting in touch with how this guy/situation makes me feel, and expressing that on here.

    That is generally a good start for me when I feel confused/overwhelmed.

  20.  #20Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 10:57 am

    10: AmberS says:

    “…It freaked me out that the male lead ended up as a Bond villain in Octopussy. Like, dude, where’s Gigi!?!?…”

    Yeah, I know…but Louis Jourdan was still pretty smooth guy, born in 1921. He married his childhood sweetheart in 1944! and I read they are still living in the south of France. I had the impression he had died a few years, so I looked him up…OMG, I realized I had “killed” the man in my mind. I don’t know why I thought that…

    Here’s a “Gigi” still going strong.

    This is Leslie Caron in film that I adore. It doesn’t appeal to the usual American Hollywood taste and so the reviews weren’t great but…

    I’m always the odd one out and I don’t mind anymore… I find the film F-A-B-lous and oh, la la, baby baby!

    Le Divorce (2003)

    director: James Ivory
    producer: Esmail Merchant

    Leslie Caron, Kate Hudson, Naomi Watts, Glenn Close, Stokard Channing, Sam Waterson, Thierry Lhermite, Bebe Neuwirth, Matthew Modine, Stephen Fry, Catherine Samie and a host of other fabulous screen actors

    A little back story: This film is a dramatization of one of the Diane Johnson novels. I think “Le Divorce” is the best story, although the screenplay is a departure but I like it as well.

    Diane Johnson, lives in either 5th or 6th arrondissement, I forget which and she captures a lot of the Parisian ambience. She’s a Californian and lives six months on each continent. She also has published a book about the history of the Parisian street/neighborhood where she lives half the year.

    My story:
    I thought I’d like to do the same; so at the end of last year I was practicing up learning to navigate the world living out of suitcase on wheels and a carry on train case. One night on a train I pulled out the “Le Divorce” DVD to play it on my laptop and it accidentally rolled off my lap onto the floor of the train and disappeared,,,never to be seen again. And I searched! Even after reaching destination next morning in daylight. Goes to show you modern day Amtrak travel is surely not a leisurely jaunt on the 1930’s style Orient Express.

    I have to find a sweetie so I can take him traveling with me, someone who would want to live in Paris part of the year, somebody who likes art and writing as I do.

    Amber, there are a couple trailers on right side of the IMDB site.


  21.  #21Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Chocolate man came online and apologized for what he did. He is profusely apologizing.
    I did not know what to say. So I told him I felt hugely embarrassed.
    He is going on apologizing!!! 🙂 🙂

  22.  #22Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 11:23 am

    @21: Meemee

    Perhaps when he is finished apologizing he will take you on a proper date but not back to his house, dinner maybe? a movie? a concert? a party? hiking?


  23.  #23Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 11:29 am

    “He also said it was obvious that G-Man had real feelings for me – this helped me feel I had not been misreading things totally.He just cant do a relationship.”

    It seems that way. He probably loves you in the way that he can. If/when he’s able to do things differently you might be with someone else.


  24.  #24Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I wish he did that instead of lifting me five feet above the ground!!!

  25.  #25margaret marquez on December 14, 2010 at 11:36 am

    i kinda think kerrie has some valid reasons to be cautious–i’ve had the experience of surface “niceness” that conceals a need for control–plus he’s making plans w/o her input–that would definitely scare me. if she can play around w/ mr sexy w/o becoming emotionally attached 2 him, while still seeing dave that might B wise–but only she can make that call

  26.  #26AmberS on December 14, 2010 at 11:38 am


    I am so happy to read that you have a good person to reach out to for support.

    I was thinking about you being supportive to everyone else (even as a profession) and I really appreciate how you do that here on the blog. I am learning the grace of this from you and the other sirens. You take the time to acknowledge each person’s story and you use very validating language. It’s so PRESENT. I love it.

    Thank you.

    I still have a mental image of you dancing with your head back, laughing. In a sun dress.

    I am looking forward to reading about the experience that matches my vision. It is so full of immeasurable JOY and LIGHTNESS.

  27.  #27Lorelei on December 14, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Meemee @ 21 – good, that you told chocolate man that you felt embarassed.

    If a man is apologising profusely for something he did, is it a Siren-y thing to say “Apology accepted.” How about “I feel good that you apologised – apology accepted.”

    I also notice, though, that here is another man who tries to tell Meemee what her inner feelings and reality are . . . he said “You wanted to be lifted up.”


  28.  #28Daria on December 14, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Meemee – I loved it when my last date lifted me off the ground, and on our first meeting too!

    This is flirting!

    It’s ok to be embarassed, but, open up!

  29.  #29Daria on December 14, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Also I feel glad you told him u feel enraged when he told u how u feel… That usually feels icky to me

  30.  #30Daria on December 14, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Guys say that cuz they think it will turn a girl on, like teasing ” you want me”. It creates tension, which can be a turn on…

    But I don’t like it

  31.  #31Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    @24: Meemee says:

    “I wish he did that instead of lifting me five feet above the ground!!! ”

    If that’s all he did, didn’t hurt you or touch in another way, and you both were kind of flirting; I’d have fun with it. I think he was showing his strength, that’s a guy thing. I like a guy who is strong. Strong and gentle.

    You didn’t say no when he asked you, maybe he should have waited for a solid yes but I don’t think there was any real harm done, do you? Maybe the other sirens do, I don’t know. The next time he’ll know not to pick you up. 😆

    Let’s see what he offers next…

    And IMHO it’s best to keep first “dates” to public places, just so there is no misunderstanding.

    I think you might have fun with this guy and I think he likes you. Just keep your boundaries and let him know what you like and don’t like.


  32.  #32Lorelei on December 14, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    But I agree with Daria and SLV – no real harm done in being twirled into the air – could be fun.

  33.  #33Lorelei on December 14, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    And that’s also true, Daria, it could be that his “You wanted me to pick you up” was teasing. Hell, I wouldn’t mind it myself!!

    I’m just a bit triggered myself by Meemee’s experience of X telling her what she feels and thinks, or that she “doesn’t need to” feel what she actually feels.

  34.  #34Ella on December 14, 2010 at 12:26 pm


    For me I think I would like it if a guy lifted me up… it would feel sexy! He is strong – Yum!

    But whatever you felt about it good to express that… and if it was enraged that is what you expressed so all good in terms of being authentic.

    I’m just feeling curious, what made you feel enraged?

  35.  #35Ella on December 14, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Stir fry vegetables in walnut oil with fresh turkey breast and hummus.

    Good Siren food for me!

  36.  #36Ella on December 14, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    I feel good/empowered.

    Mr Barman called and I said I was not going to come and meet him tonight.

    He tried to convince me but I used feeling messages and stuck to my boundaries. So that was that and he accepted it.

    We won’t see each other now until the weekend as he is working the whole time and he was disappointed. I expressed that I felt disappointed too and that it would feel nice to see him soon.

    He said I could come to the pub anytime to see him and he would like that, but obviously he will be working. Well I may or may not pop in. Only if I feel like it. Is this leaning forward? Even if I go in regularly anyway?

    I will just do what I feel like….

    Then he said he didn’t have any credit to call me later but that I should call him. He has said this (about me calling him) a few times before and obviously I never have… so he said it a couple of times and then said “ok?”… there was a big pause and then I said ‘actually I do not feel comfortable calling guys’


    Him: that is not very modern of you!
    Me: he he… not I guess its not!

    talking about other stuff….

    Him: well so call me later if you work up the courage!
    Me: Ha ha, I can’t believe you just said that… te he, its not about courage at all, I just feel more comfortable when guys call me!

    Then he kinda softened and the he said ‘well I’ll call you tomorrow or later’.

    It finished on a good note and i feel empowered!

  37.  #37Simply Shannon on December 14, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I felt embarrassed when a date of mine (Mr. Manly Man actually) picked me up. For me, it was embarrassment about my weight. I’ve always felt weird about being lifted up. I pushed him away and made a big deal about him putting me down. Ack. So embarrassed. And yet he was quite capable of lifting me (especially if I hadn’t been pushing away).

    My weight is a huge trigger for me. It has nothing to do with him. I don’t remember practicing feeling messages at that time. I felt so embarrassed. I shut down completely.

    Weight is still a trigger for me. Even though I’m only 15 lbs away from my target weight goal.

    What’s really funny is that Mr. Manly Man is a big guy, 6’4″ (to my 5’8″) and works out a lot. And I know he LOVES my body.

    Yeah, my stomach still feels rumbly when I think about a man lifting me. Mr. Fab Kisser tried to do it too. Hmmm. I wonder when this happened the first time to have such a hold over me.

    I feel happier with my body now. The old XL me still wages war with the new medium me. I totally and completely love myself.

    I would really like for this trigger to be healed. I’d really love to be able to treat my body well and to love my body completely no matter what.

    Baby steps to healing.

  38.  #38Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    My college fiance guy used to pick me up and twirl me around and I LOVED it! I felt so good and cherished and happy when he did that.

    I am a lot heavier now, though, and I have wondered what would happen if a guy tried to pick me up. Lol. I wonder if many guys could. That’s part of why I want to lose weight — I want my man to pick me up.

  39.  #39Ella on December 14, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Hey SS,

    I also have this issue around being lifted up… that kind of ‘icky’ feeling in case I am too heavy and they can’t lift me…

    But I am getting better with it and if I know they are strong enough it feels ok and I find it quite sexy that they want to…

    I had to work at feeling ok about it though.

  40.  #40Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Rori, what do you mean by this?

    “Physical chemistry is overrated – you can develop that with ANYONE!!! Eroticism is something else, and perhaps that’s not a component here.”


  41.  #41Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    “I was with a good man once who just couldn’t ring my chimes – but it wasn’t because of chemistry physically – it was because mentally and emotionally he just wasn’t up to my level – there was no way I could have had a deep connection with him.” (Rori)

    Yeah, that’s my biggest problem.

  42.  #42Gina on December 14, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Ohhhh thank you Rori!!! This is the post I’ve been needing and wanting for so long!
    D is playing games with me now, and it is simultaneously interesting and infuriating. Cause he’s punishing me for not going with him to Boston. He has transformed from being all about me to being ALL ABOUT HIM ever since he got the promotion to move to Boston. He’s in total freakout mode because of the stress of moving out of his home town for the first time. The other night he came over to my apartment and I told him a little bit about how I don’t want to feel like a mom in a relationship, and he said that he needed me to put him to bed one last time because he really needed to go night night. It blew my mind. He is so so needy right now. He’s drinking too much, being arrogant and defensive and even a little mean. I’ve told him that I just don’t want to get involved in the stress of his move, and I’m pretty much clear of him. Though, I still do feel love for him. And sometimes I wish i could just move to Boston and have babies and be fine. But he’s a basket case right now and I feel worried that I’d give everything to move up there with a monster. I really think he sucks right now. Am I seeing the “real” him? Or is this just how some men react to stress, and I just need to take care of myself till he straightens up. Should I judge him for this and put him behind me? Knowing that life might take him this direction again sometime? Or is it just a given that any person can temporarily lose their cool if they are pushed way far from their comfort zone, and my job is to take care of me?

  43.  #43marina on December 14, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Hello Sirens,
    Oh, I have a lot of catching up to do.

    Still happy that I found this site and hope you are all doing well 🙂
    Also still working on feeling my feelings…

    Tonight we had ‘Lichtjesavond’ in my city: an evening Christmas Market, live music and christmas storietelling everywhere and ofcourse lightning up the big Christmas Tree on the Market Square.

    I went to listen to a performance by singer-songwriter Astrid Tan, a friend of mine, I hope you will also enjoy her songs ‘Freefall in love’ and ‘Lets leave today’:

    Ciao, Marina

  44.  #44Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Ella wat do u like about walnut oil?

  45.  #45Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    I want a life coach! I want to work with Orna .

    I’m going to ask my patents for help.

    Big blow out w me and mom here about how she’s embarassed cuz friends kids are getting masters

    I don’t want a master!

    I want to be happy

    Maybe a master in math

    But nit right now!

    I bet a life coach will help me a lot

  46.  #46Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    @2: AmberS
    “I hope your walk last night left you feeling fine & frisky.”

    Yes, I was thinking I might run into a particular guy. He kind of triggered me last week. I was trying out some “feeling messages” in my mind. I got the riff, which was empowering but I didn’t get to the “feeling message” part.

    Last week I saw, let’s call him Library Guy, at…library. As soon as he spied me, he comes over; he always does that.

    Now, here’s the horrible part. He starts talking to me right away about some awful boring, old whiney complaints. A boring monologue. Like he’s entitled to unload on me! Me, a goddess! I’m standing there in the check out line and he just stands beside me, talking. And there was a long line.

    Background: he lives in neighborhood and I met him at a computer center several years ago. We exchanged a few generic non-personal e-mails about community news and events but he never asked me for a date.

    We speak politely when we see each other but we do not socialize. I haven’t been to that center for the last two years so I don’t see him much anymore.

    He’s retired and few years older than I, rather attractive looking, college educated, well read, likes same things I do, computers/tech, the arts, etc. He has never asked me for a date but the last few times I’ve encountered him in the neighborhood he has latched onto me with some boring talk. And I do mean latched on. My fault, I guess I was too polite.

    Last week he followed me out the door but I told him I wasn’t going in the other direction, I was going to get a coffee at McDonald’s a block away.

    Library Man walked along side me whining all the way. When we reached the restaurant door, I guess I should have stood there until he opened it but I grabbed it. He stood outside holding door, still whining as I walked inside.

    I’m thinking if a guy can’t buy me a cup of coffee, he can’t talk to me. And if he can’t offer any good conversation, he can’t talk to me either!

    What’s wrong with these old guys! I was looking cute too. Can’t even buy me a cup of coffee and a chocolate chip cookie at the neighborhood McDonald’s?

    Yesterday this was the silent riff in my head:

    “You can’t talk to me.” “It’s not going to happen.” “no, no, no.

    And I was thinking, gee, this is so nervy talking to me like this. He’s retired; we could be having some fun together and this is what he brings to me. Nothing! Grrrrrrrr!

    So, sirens. He’s not romantic material but I want to practice on him. I don’t get many live specimens. How do I say, that I don’t feel good about him talking to me about nothing but complaints.

    Oh, I guess I say just that… 😀 Anybody got any other words?


  47.  #47Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Oh I just had a terrible feeling thought! Life coaches won’t want to work w me because I’m not their ideal client!


  48.  #48Ella on December 14, 2010 at 1:24 pm


    Hmmm, people react in different ways to stress…

    Just keep working with your feelings.

    That thing he said about needing to be put to bed for night night right after you told him you don’t want to feel like a mother in a relationship would feel REALLY icky to me personally!

    And I would stop and say to him “that makes me feel so uncomfortable/icky!” and if he said “what do you mean” I would repeat until my feelings were heard.

    Regarding any life decisions about moving to be with him… well only ever make those decisions based on what you really want and feel.

    Incidentally I moved out of my last home, a flat I loved, because my ex felt ‘uncomfortable’ that my previous ex lived round the corner. We moved to take care of his feelings because he made such a fuss about it, even though there was no reason for this, and from then on the relationship went downhill. Not saying this would happen to you but just please make sure that you are sure, and it is for the right reasons if you are thinking of doing something as big as moving for a man.

    Has he offered you committment?

  49.  #49tinque on December 14, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    “Life coaches won’t want to work w me because I’m not their ideal client!”

    To a good coach there’s no such thing.


  50.  #50Ella on December 14, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    SLV –

    Yes definitely good practice.

    I still feel scared everytime I realise I am not feeling good about something and I need to speak up…

    and sometimes I still don’t, but mostly I do, and it always feels so much better when I have, and makes me feel more confident for the next time.

    If he does it again you could try:

    You: Ow, I feel weird!
    Him: (stops talking) why?
    You: well you have been talking at me for the last …. minutes and the stuff you are saying feels kinda negative to me.

    pause for reaction

    You: and it would feel so much nicer to talk about cheerful things


    You: and it would feel good to have a chance to talk about my day or do something fun.


    You: and it would feel good to have a chance to be part of the conversation.

    what do you think?

    What do you think SLV?

  51.  #51Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Yeah being lifted up can really make u’s feel vulnerable and “swept off our feet”.

    I don’t trip about weight but guess what I was worried about: I had a couple untrmed mustache hairs and he might notice them! Lol

  52.  #52Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Tinque – right on! The thought came up when I worked with one new coach in a free first session and I felt this energy that she got frustrated w me.

    But yes that would feel nice…

    How come on their seminars they talk about attracting ideal clients for them?

    It seems like a person has to be already like successful to get help – lol

    Thanks nvs

    And I haven’t seem any business coaches say

    U don’t have to pay me… Work w me… Generate income from it… Then pay

    That would be nice… But no, it’s all bullshit!

    Thanks Nv.

    I still want to work w one.

  53.  #53Ella on December 14, 2010 at 1:39 pm


    Oh I got muddled up – it is actually toasted sesame seed oil not walnut oil!

    I do not know much about it, just experimenting, however I think I heard somewhere that nut oils are more stable for cooking that vegetable oils so that the fats do not change to trans fat under heat so easily…

    However I am not sure so I may google it!

    Does anyone on here know?

    Daria – if a life coach didn’t want to work with you because you are not an ideal client I would say they are not the right life coach for you! I would also feel tempted to label them (the coach) with a few judegements, however I will stay away from that.

  54.  #54Daria on December 14, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Ella – oh ok! Ive had the untoasted sesame oil before

  55.  #55Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    @46: Daria says:
    “Oh I just had a terrible feeling thought! Life coaches won’t want to work w me because I’m not their ideal client!”

    Why won’t they want to work with you, you’re “live?”

    Did you ever check out that book “Wishcraft” or the other ones by Barbara Sher? Get from public library, do the exercises, get the life you want, free coach yourself until you get another “life coach.”

    I fell in love with myself when I read her first book, the “Wishcraft” one. She also has yummy coaching seminars in cool places like Paris and Italian country side.

    I don’t know if you are looking for coaching for romance. B Sher is mostly for career and finding ways to do what you want to do in your life.


  56.  #56tinque on December 14, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Ella – many oils are “fragile”, have a low heat point, so they will burn and/or lose their nutrition under high heat. Olive oil is one such as are most nut oils.
    Grapeseend oil is an exception and I believe coconut oil is too though I’m not sure on this one.

    Sesame oil is one the most fragile ones, and how I use is it is after stir frying on or off the heat. I’ll drizzle a little over the mix, and stir gently, but do remove it from the fire soon after, very soon. Voila. Yummy. It gives a great flavor.


    oops. I posted this under the other thread accidentally. so here it is again.

  57.  #57Ella on December 14, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Sometimes I read e-mails from Christian Carter and they make me feel kinda fear/pressure and it feels all a bit icky.

    I read some of his stuff before I found Rori’s and while I do find some of it very useful his e-mails make me feel as though my fears are being targeted to get me to buy something…

    Just my opinion.

  58.  #58Ella on December 14, 2010 at 1:54 pm



    Yes I have heard that re grapeseed oil and coconut oil. I think I will get some grapeseed oil for cooking with!

    And then just use the sesame seed oil for dressings etc…

    Oh I also heard that most oils are ok for cooking as long as you don’t let them get to the point where they smoke as this is when their structure can change. Do you believe this?

  59.  #59Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    @49: Ella says:
    “SLV –
    Yes definitely good practice. What do you think SLV?”

    I think it’s a good idea to practice. Thanks for your examples. I’ve copied all the other words in your post and I’m saving onto a Notepad file to jumpstart my “feeling messages” practice so the words will be well practiced and flow trippingly off my tongue…

    Thanks so much.

    If anyone wants to approach the goddess (or THE RED QUEEN) they had better come correct…but I’ll be open, sweet and gentle. 😀


  60.  #60Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    I had grapeseed oil before and I loved the taste.., and I think I also loved the way eggs sunny side up cooked in it.

    Now I cook w ghee – I like saturated fat

    Or coconut oil

  61.  #61Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Slv – my life is 100% about coaching myself and has been for some time. I want some extra help.

    I haven’t yet checked it out I put it on my library list now.

  62.  #62Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Now I’m Gona check if have it and… Walk to the library! I’ve been wanting to get out

  63.  #63tinque on December 14, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    “don’t let them get to the point where they smoke as this is when their structure can change.”

    yes this is true but also tricky to work with, so I say better safe than sorry.
    that said I still use olive oil all the time because I love the taste.

    synchronicity rules. I too made a stir fry for later after our ballet class, and I put sesame seed oil on after for the flavor.

    by the way coconut oil is awesome for make up removal, mascara included. then wash after as per normal though if one is very, very dry, a warm water rinse is enough.

  64.  #64Sara on December 14, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I am going on my first date in almost 24 years tomorrow. It’s just coffee, but I feel really nervous and am hoping that it’s not awkward. We have been talking/emailing for a few weeks.

    I am wondering if Rori has an article about first dates? I want to learn about him but don’t want to lead the conversation or lean forward too much in asking questions or making him feel like he’s being interviewed. But I am afraid that he’ll just sit there! We talk well over email, but I feel that in person might be harder – especially since I’m so out of practice and feeling nervous.

    Any ideas or articles that you Sirens can recommend will be greatly appreciated

  65.  #65Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Wow none of the books are there! Except for one that I didn’t find last time…

    But they are in the county… Maybe they could bring them in

  66.  #66Ella on December 14, 2010 at 2:26 pm


    Oww, that is a great tip re the coconut oil as make up remover! I have been pondering what I could use as a natural alternative! At the moment I often just use a babywipe which I think is actually really bad for my skin.

    I want to start taking better care of myself and this was one of the questions I had open, what natural product I could use to cleanse my face … so yes, synchronicity does rule! 🙂

    Btw – does it moisturize too? And if not what do you use for this?

  67.  #67Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I just saw TNS post from previous thread.

    14 December 2010 @ 12:30pm
    @460: The Nikita Show says:
    – mum says; if u can’t do it for ur sake do it for ur children !!!
    My jaw dropped
    … I make decisions about who I date and sleep with based on the welfare of my unborn children constantly!I feel tongue tied!!!
    … I can’t stress enough how much this rings true for me and if ALL women set this standard it might eliminate 90% of the bullsh*it sperm donators’ toxicity…”

    Thanks, Nikita for your response to my post and also for honoring my mother. She wasn’t always right about everything but I believe she was right on about this. And her mother, my grandmother, always said the same.


  68.  #68Ella on December 14, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Te he… lol, it looks like the man in the pic @ top of this post isn’t wearing any trousers!

  69.  #69Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Yay! I worked through my fear of being rejected/judged by the librarian – yes I do have those… Very limiting :(. – and called and made them work hard for me by finding my book!

  70.  #70Ella on December 14, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    SLV @ 65

    This brings up some issues for me… I see the sense and yet…

    what if a man is a good person / makes me happy, but he smokes…

    This is not a deal breaker for me (although I do not smoke) although it would not be good for the health of an unborn child if I were ever to have children with such a man…

    I could end up ruling out so many people based on this (not just the smoking but many other traits, habits, income etc).

    So should I go for the guy who looks great on paper but doesn’t make me happy, if I felt he’d make a good father?

    And then the health of the relationship might be comprimised which would not be a good environment for my children either…

    I feel curious about this issue.

  71.  #71Ella on December 14, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    SLV re 58 🙂

  72.  #72Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Ella – coconut oil in a way moisturizes in a way doesn’t

    try the sesame oil for that! although i’ve never tried ‘toasted’ hehe

  73.  #73Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    @60: Daria says:
    “Slv – my life is 100% about coaching myself and has been for some time. I want some extra help.
    I haven’t yet checked it out I put it on my library list now.”

    The “wishcraft” book is an old one, it’s been published in many editions and languages. You might get a version cheap on Amazon or eBay but see what is available for free.

    She has other books. I think they will resonate with you.

    Barbara Sher:
    “Everyone has unique gifts an talents,
    What you love is what you’re gifted at.
    To be completely happy,
    to live a completely fulfilled life,
    you have to do what you love.”

    Other books:
    –Refuse to Choose: A Revolutionary Program for Doing Everything You Love
    –Wishcraft – How to Get What You Really Want
    –I Could Do Anything If I Only Knew What It Was
    –Live the Life You Love
    –It’s Only Too Late If You Don’t Start Now: How to Create Your Second Life at Any Age

    There are also vids on YouTube. Maybe I’ll go check those and see what’s there. I need some motivation to get some things done before the end of the year.


  74.  #74Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I use the children thing as a way to get clarity and power too…

    especially in my relationships with my parents…

    would I want to tolerate being talked to/treated this way in front of my children?

    would i tolerate my child to be treated this way?

    no? then its not good for me right now

  75.  #75Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    😳 typed wrong.

    “Everyone has unique gifts and talents…”


  76.  #76Daria on December 14, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    thanks SLV – i like the REFUSE TO CHOOSE idea

  77.  #77Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    66: Ella says:
    “Te he… lol, it looks like the man in the pic @ top of this post isn’t wearing any trousers!”

    He isn’t wearing any! 😆


  78.  #78Ella on December 14, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    SLV re 75

    I say!! Well I won’t be going on a coffee date with him!! Lol 🙂

  79.  #79Ella on December 14, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    what about when the man treats you well but eats a bad diet… smokes… whatever…

    I believe in a very healthy lifestyle generally, and this is how I would want to raise my children.

    But I see a potential conflict here as many of the guys I have met who are into health in the way I am I don’t feel attracted to because they have tended to be fem energy… or just too plain ‘wholesome and straight’ and no fun!

    Hmmm, maybe I need to go date some sports men, lol.

    Hmmm, maybe I need a separate sperm donor and husband… (of course only joking!).

  80.  #80tinque on December 14, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Ella -“does it moisturize too? And if not what do you use for this?”

    It does in a sense, but it’s thick and not great at penetration. It’s better for use as a barrier against say heavy water usage or chemicals.

    I make and sell my own moisturizer using rosehip oil as a base into which I infuse lavender or rose from my garden, sometimes both, and I add grapeseed oil, pomegranate oil, neroli, and other skin regenerating, firming essential oils.

    I recently found that even though I designed it for a more mature skin, a drier skin, or as a skin aging preventative, it works well even on a oily skin as per a client.


  81.  #81Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Ella – i think it’s important to find out what the deal breakers are!

    because once we Do have our relationship and married we WILL have children!

    is smoking that important?

    maybe we’ll have to talk about it … theres lots of stuff that can come up about rasing children and where to live and education

    i wanna homeschool my children now… i talk about it with men sometimes

  82.  #82Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    “Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn’t have it in the beginning.” -Mahatma Gandhi

  83.  #83Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    68: Ella says:
    “SLV @ 65
    So should I go for the guy who looks great on paper but doesn’t make me happy, if I felt he’d make a good father? ”

    Only “great on paper” as in titled, credentialed, landed, monied, celebrated, sexy or very good looking… that kind of thing?


    I don’t believe it would be in children’s best interest for their mother to be unhappy! The thing to do is put aside any infatuation for such men that are only “great on paper.”

    Now that you mention it, I’m sure there are some men referred to in these threads who are “great on paper” but not too good for anyone.

    Regarding smoking; it’s not innate. Guys (and gals) could quit smoking. For some people smoking is a dealbreaker which I’ve seen in CL ads and also in online dating sites.

    In my case…I unfortunately was a smoker; my husband was not. The dear man even bought me cartons of cigarettes to keep me happy. I was a rather light smoker but I was a smoker… but not now!! Yippee. I haven’t smoked for decades! 😀

    My own parents (second marriage for both) were smokers (or had been) but I never knew it! They had agreed to stop smoking when they married and had children. They thought smoking wasn’t a good thing. But they had both smoked during their first marriages. And this was in the days long before all the health notices.

    So I never in my life saw my mother with a cigarette although her sister and brother both were smokers! My aunt once accidentally put out a cigarette on my arm! Ouch! Hell, everyone mostly smoked when I was young…I’m a Boomer, a leading edge Boomer.

    Did you ever watch the “Mad Men” TV shows and see all the lit cigarettes? And ash trays everywhere!

    Smoking was the norm. About three or four times a year my father would have what he called his “social cigarette” at a party. That was it! Probably reminded him of his days in the Roaring Twenties. I wonder he didn’t fall over with the sudden jolt of nicotine! 😆

    Ah, well, the things you do for the kiddos…

    My parents put away all their guns too…that’s another story. Maybe I’ll tell that one too one day.

    haha I think AmberS likes my life stories… 😆


  84.  #84Simply Shannon on December 14, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Oh wow. I just chased away one of my fears.

    Today has been a NIGHTMARE at work. Feels awful, terrible, yucky to be working THIS HARD.

    One of my new CDs (well an old one who resurfaced- hehe) asked me how my day was. So I wrote this…
    Work feels SUCKY today. I keep reminding myself I only have two more days til I’m off through the first of the year.

    Two more days, two more days.

    It would feel so good to have a stress free job. Hmm. Maybe I want a sugar daddy who will let me stay at home and do fun stuff all day. Hmmm. I feel turned on considering that option. 😀

    What do you think? Shannon

    He replied that he would be my sugar daddy! Hooray! I thought he would bolt, cancel the date, go lukewarm on me. He did NOT. Haha! He then proceeds to tell me it might not be much on XYZ salary but he’ll do what he can. When XYZ amount is a) what I make now and b) I know we could survive on that!

    Seriously amazed. No joking here. I can have what I want. Oh my oh my oh my!!!

  85.  #85Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I just counted my brothers and I got 22 of them!

    That’s including 2 dead ones

    2 that were my lovers

    And about 3 or 4 or so i don’t trust

    That’s about 14 or 15 live onesI Love like brabras


    Plus one cousin of one I love ( and like )

  86.  #86Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Oh wow shannon grinning and feeling excited and inspired!

  87.  #87Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Ps those are not blood siblings lol

  88.  #88Daria on December 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Oh damn I forgot a couple of lil ones. Let’s add 2 and maybe another lata

  89.  #89Daria on December 14, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    There’s more! Another one! And another one!

    + 2. !

  90.  #90Daria on December 14, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    All these people call me Sis.

    And I call them bra


    I made myself a big fam of guys when I wanted one. Yum.

  91.  #91LonePlum on December 14, 2010 at 4:18 pm

  92.  #92LonePlum on December 14, 2010 at 4:23 pm


    My post for you was kept in moderation because I pasted two links in it.
    So here go two separated posts 🙂

    Today, I posted for you here


  93.  #93LonePlum on December 14, 2010 at 4:24 pm

  94.  #94Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Interesting tidbit from Jonathon’s fb page:

    Jonathon wrote: “Was just reading a profile where she states how busy her life is and she has a demanding profession. Learned the hard way with people who have very busy lives make for difficult daters. While I am sure when they meet the right person they may be “willing” to adjust their lifestyle (they always profess they do). Just another turn off in my book, busy means difficult (to me anyway). IMHO”

  95.  #95Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 4:46 pm


    “Seriously amazed. No joking here. I can have what I want. Oh my oh my oh my!!!”

    I’ve found not working outside the home eliminates some expenses and there is tendency to spend less on other things too while quality of life does not decrease and is usually much better.


  96.  #96Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    SLV, I just read the beginning of your story about Library Guy… I feel intrigued…. thanks for sharing! (love the little details, like chocolate chip cookie :))

  97.  #97Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    @93 Lucy
    “thanks for sharing! (love the little details, like chocolate chip cookie )”

    Thanks for reading. I’m making note of good words and phrases to practice in “feeling messages” and convos in general.


  98.  #98Senior Lady Vibe on December 14, 2010 at 5:17 pm


    I responded to your post on the “Christmas Presents” thread. It’s @473 I get lost on the threads sometimes… 😳


  99.  #99Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Tinque, do you sell your products on your website? I looked for them once but couldn’t find them.

  100.  #100Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Shannon, cool about the sugar daddy convo! Yay! Is it one of the guys you have previously mentioned on here?

    I feel sad that the guy who wanted to do that for me (D) didn’t feel good to be with after awhile. 🙁

    Here’s to manifesting sugar daddies who feel great to be with — for every woman who wants one!

  101.  #101Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Whoa, now here’s a really intelligent guy who is looking for a LOT in a woman. Rottweiler19343 on match dot com. Starting with the fact that he’s 46 and looking for someone 21-36…..

  102.  #102Rachel on December 14, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Do any of you have any good first date tips? I’m going on a coffee date tomorrow and I don’t know the man very well. I feel worried that the conversation will just “sit there” and I don’t want to lean forward and lead it.

    How do you handle this? Does Rori have any articles on first dates?

  103.  #103life_is_too_short_to... on December 14, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    AmberS and Rosa,
    I wrote to you on the previous thread….thank you for your suggestions!…..*LiFe*

  104.  #104Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Daria, my daughter just told me that you can read the whole book Wishcraft online.

  105.  #105Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Rachel, Rori says to use feeling statements about stuff …. “The lighting in this restaurant feels relaxing” etc. and then respond to stuff the guy wants to talk about.

  106.  #106AmberS on December 14, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Dear Sirens,

    I don’t get to play here tonight 🙁


    I am lost inside this song somewhere:

    Bryan Ferry – Song To The Siren

    There are whale songs mixed into it

    I can’t wait to come back tomorrow & get all caught up!

    Sweet dreams!

  107.  #107Lucy on December 14, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Are any of you California girls near North Highland?

  108.  #108Isis on December 14, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Do any of you wonder if having sex before commitment takes away from sex? – Meaning, if having sex without commitment puts you both in the mindset of non-attachment, then when you have commitment, the minds way of relating during sex stays non-attached, or in it for the feeling rather than a full experience of intimacy and love?

    I am not clear on how to word this, but has anyone considered this?

  109.  #109Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Hi SLV, Daria and Lorelei,
    There is no harm done by that act of he lifting me off the ground and holding me like that for a few seconds.
    But as I told you before this man gives out a vibe which I can not put a finger on. That makes me smile, I blush at times, I feel uneasy when that vibe continues to linger in the air, something something I feel but can not make out clearly what it is.
    That vibe makes me feel embarrassed too when he does things like this. Also that moment was embarrassing- he holding me around my waist and lifting me off and then both of us did not know what to do and he held me in his hug very gently for a few more seconds. And then both of us blushing profusely and trying to cover that up. I wanted to leave immediately but he wanted to walk with me.
    It might be flirting. I did not mind that. The only thing I didnt like about the whole episode is his statement that “at that precise moment you wanted to be lifted up”. I found that statement annoying.
    I don’t know whether he likes me or not. But when I am with him I get a vibe which is very very strong and yet I do not know what it is.

  110.  #110Leo on December 14, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Isis –

    to me that are two different things.
    First- having sex an enjoying it when I was single and dating. This was for “fun”, and lets say “enjoying myself”. It was not so much about him or our feelings for each other (which might have been developing) but mainly the “act itself”.
    Second- having sex with my man (in a commited relationship) is totally about love, trust, intimacy, something we have together, share.

    I think you will know a difference just by your heart and feelings. I mean… you know of the situation deep down in your inner self when having sex with a man (is it dating or commitment). You might not think about it that way, but you feel it.

    For me it was a whole different thing having sex with my man. I just felt this “commitment” in my subconsciousness. And it let me feel sex in a different way.

    I think, the important thing is not to fear that sex in a commited relationship will feel non-attached to you. I think that will just work out.
    The important thing here is to NOT get attached when having sex WITHOUT a commited relationnship and to just see it as “fun”.

  111.  #111Meemee on December 14, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Indeed I felt enraged by that statement “You wanted to be lifted up”. I felt annoyed and irritated too.
    The reason is that- in the first place, it sort of felt the responsibility of that moment is placed on me. The mutuality of the moment was erased when he made that comment. If he wanted to do that, if he liked doing that then there is mutuality. Secondly, that statement is untrue.
    That was what I felt.

  112.  #112Deb on December 14, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Hehe… ShimSham told me twice tonight: “You’re like a Siren!” I put a big a grin on my face 🙂 ahaha!… he has NO idea! 😉

    …and he got me a toaster oven for xmas! I like to cook and had mentioned that I wanted one 🙂 Speaking of which…

    Ella & Tinique – right on about the oils! I prefer coconut or canola for high temp stir-frying, but coconut can be expensive :/ I’ve heard peanut is good for that too but haven’t tried it. I’m very interested to try the grapeseed oil though! What does it taste like?

    Olive oil is still my favorite because I was raised like a good Italian girl 😉 But now I’ve learned to save the flavorful extra virgin for flavoring or adding at the end of cooking, otherwise the flavor is wasted.

    Same with sesame. Oh, the toasted sesame oil is SOOO GOOOOD! mmmMMMmm :d I also like adding it at the end after the heat is off like Tinque described.

    PS – to easily make a baking recipe interesting sometimes I’ll substitute coconut or walnut oil into it!

  113.  #113Lorelei on December 15, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Isis @105 and Leo @107, and anyone else . .

    If anyone can tell me how they have sex WITHOUT getting emotionally attached . . . well, I’d be interested to hear . .

    Even kissing has always seemed to produce feelings of bonding and increased emotional intimacy, even when it’s illusory . . I would feel worried about trying to turn that off . .

    Just wondering . .

  114.  #114Leo on December 15, 2010 at 3:28 am

    Hi Lorelei!

    It is so hard to explain.
    I hope you didn’t get me wrong. I never get sexually involved with more than one man at the time. But when I was single I did sleep with two man although I KNEW I would not want to spend my whole life with them.
    But I liked them, they were nice. And they treated me well, we shared a lot of time together, so we were sharing emotions. But never the kind of the ONE true love.
    I would never sleep with anyone I don’t like, who doesn’t make me feel good.
    But when I was dating I felt like sleeping with them. I wanted to have sex, only sex.
    And as you talked about this “bonding ” or the “increase of emotional intimacy”…. It was there.
    We got a long very well, and did afterward too. But we both knew we weren’t meant to be with each other. We just wanted to enjoy ourselves. We were attracted to each other, physically and also emotionally. But in a different way…

    It’s hard to explain… and one may look at it differently.
    To me the main points are: Yes, we need to like each other, be attracted.
    But only through sex I didn’t love him. Although he was caring for me and being nice, I didn’t love him. And sex didn’t/couldn’t change anything there.
    You said, you don’t want to “turn that off”, this feeling of bonding.
    Important is, I believe, to not turn it on ONLY by a kiss or sex.

    When I met my man…i knew he’s the one. And sex meant something different to me.
    It was not merely “physical pleasure”….but there was more too it. A lot more.

    I hope you get my point. And don’t misunderstand me.


  115.  #115Ella on December 15, 2010 at 4:38 am


    Do just sit there… that is what Rori suggests. Do not pick up the slack as uncomfortable as that feels.

    Then it creates space for him to step up with the conversation…

    I do this with one of my men on the phone all the time… sometimes there are big gaps of silence and I always have that urge to overfunction and start talking chirpily to fill the gap… the NV in the back of my mind says ‘if I do not talk about something interesting he will think I am boring!’

    Well I just hold the space anyway and then he will start a topic… more often than not how he feels about me or that he wants to see me…

    I only speak up IF I genuinly have something I really want to share.

    Hope that helps!

  116.  #116Ella on December 15, 2010 at 4:41 am

    Isis re 105

    Personally this is something I am still experimenting with however I believe the opposite. I think it takes the pressure off allowing MORE intimacy which triggers committment feelings…

    Although sex should not be used for trying to create committment IMO.

  117.  #117Ella on December 15, 2010 at 4:46 am

    Field mushrooms (from the supermarket though 🙁 ) and fresh farm eggs = Siren Food.

  118.  #118Rachel on December 15, 2010 at 5:10 am

    Thank you, Ella. The thought of that silence feels terrifying! I really hope it doesn’t happen … but I will do my best to lean back and sip my coffee. Here we gooooo!!

  119.  #119Ella on December 15, 2010 at 5:48 am


    Another way to look at it is if you pick up the conversation he will never know that he needs to… if you don’t and it feels akward, and you express that, then he will have a chance to improve for you.

    And in my experience men like that chance!

  120.  #120tinque on December 15, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Lucy – My products are there, just kind of buried for now due to limited raw material resources.

    at the top of the page you’ll see the link to the flower remedies and tinctures.

    (Just know that there is a price inconsistency on my newest product. I need to get in there and change some coding, but my domain host changed the format, and I’m waiting on my webmaster to tell me how to access it.)

  121.  #121tinque on December 15, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Deb – Grapeseed oil doesn’t have much of a flavor making a good choice since it won’t interfere with seasonings.

    I don’t like peanut oil and couldn’t tell you why really other than it doesn’t feel “clean” to me if that makes any sense.


  122.  #122tinque on December 15, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Isis – The sex before commitment as compared to with commitment and the fear of not being able to connect deeply if the former came before the latter.

    Leo covered this well. This is not something you need be concerned about. There would be more concern in feeling attached and connected before a commitment was made as in having casual sex which for many, many women is difficult if not impossible.

    You will more than likely feel a deepening connection regardless if a commitment is there, and once it is, it just seems to become more so, almost as if the permission has been given to go all in, as long as your heart is open and receptive to this.

    Many men and women have walls up to varying degrees and find giving their heart to another a challenge.

    So this is a long winded way to say, please try worry about this.


  123.  #123tinque on December 15, 2010 at 8:10 am

    Rachel – “The thought of that silence feels terrifying”

    Yes silence can feel terrifying, yet it’s a wonderful opportunity for you to just BE. Feel your energy circulating. Try dropping it into your pelvis. Try feeling sensual. Smile withing yourself.

    Once you can get past the awkwardness so many feel when it gets quiet, rather than trying to fill it with noise, sink into it. Eventually you will learn to embrace those lovely still moments.

    Let him speak first.


  124.  #124Femininewoman on December 15, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Dear Meemee,

    Reading your last two posts you sound like me. I analyze a lot which does diminish the element of surprise being enjoyable. I wonder if he might have felt something in your vibe that yiu wanted to be lifted out of the predicament with X and misunderstood it? Wonder if he is a shy person who is normally misunderstood? Reading about the incident I felt some hesitation of both parts and felt that this was two shy people trying to connect. I wonder if he doesn’t have much experience with relationships and as such lack the skills to do them right? I would suggest look again at the incident with compassion towards him as if giving to myself.
    Could he have triggered some memory of X where unresolved resentment is lurking? I wonder.

    Ella 56 I feel the same way about Christian Carter’s writing, sometimes that he is preying on the weakness of women. He teaches that we are driven to solve mysteries and his emails usually have so many suggestive questions. He says we tend to carry around fear from previous relationships and his email are so suggestive that it stirs up the fear. I tend to jump past all the beginning parts with the questions and go straight to the suggestions. What I like about Rori is that she tells you up front exactly what is happening and provide solutions as in things to do to deal with the situation. I might be my style of learning but her way feels more comfortable to me but then I second guess myself as there is this suggestion not to discuss one’s relationship with women or with our girlfriends. Seem like a catch 22 that sends us running to the man.

  125.  #125Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Probably. I analyze a lot. These days I do it a lot since I have the whole memory of X with me and I feel I cant open myself upto chocolate man when he tries to flirt.

  126.  #126LonePlum on December 15, 2010 at 10:59 am


    I wrote about the question you asked us. Have you read it?


  127.  #127Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Today X came to my room and made some unnecessary comments on everything I was doing. I got angry and I literally shouted at him (for the first time in my life).
    I shouted “this is my room and either you respect me in my room or get out”. That was the least. He sat there and tried to pacify me. I was so angry and said all what I felt like saying (quite unsiren-y, I know).
    I came back home and I throw up.
    For the first time I told him that I feel weak and bad when I talk to him.
    That I feel happy when I am away.
    And when he suggested we will meet, I said I will not meet him in any private place.
    I dont even remember what all I told him.
    When he suggested I should not work myself up, I said “I demand respect”.
    I threw up so bad after the conversation.

  128.  #128Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:10 am

    I saw the links just now. Read it.
    I see wisdom in your words. A perfect breaking down of X’s seemingly high sounding arguement.
    I love you Plum

  129.  #129Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 11:14 am


    Congratulations! I feel happy that you exploded on him! No need to use Siren skills when you want to end it with a toxic man! You did very well!!

    I feel sad for you that it upset you so deeply that you threw up. But this is a huge step in breaking free, and I am so very proud of you!


  130.  #130Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:15 am

    I told X this secret business is killing me.
    That I feel like throwing up everytime I talk to him.
    that I am a woman and I need a man, not a boy.
    that I will not tolerate if he superimpose his anxieties into the “relationship”
    that I will not tolerate his judgement
    that nothing is a more turn off to me than a man who is insensitive to my tears and pain.

  131.  #131Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Anything under the sunlight is acceptable.
    He seemed worried and told me he will meet me soon and he wants to talk because he did not know that this had such a bad effect on me.
    At one point I wanted to take a bottle which was on my table and throw at him and yell “get out”.
    I did not do that.

  132.  #132Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I totally exploded.
    I felt that much triggered.
    I did not feel the need to maintain my composure.
    I wanted to explode.
    I didnt talk about any events. anything from the past or the present.
    I just shouted how disgusted I feel.

  133.  #133Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:22 am

    He texted me saying he will talk to me tomorrow and he really wants to fix the situation.
    I dont know what that means.

  134.  #134Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:24 am

    I feel weak now.
    I feel as if I am standing naked in the rain.
    I feel exposed.

  135.  #135Leo on December 15, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Meemee – 130

    What do you want?
    Do you feel like talking to him tomorrow and “fix” it?

  136.  #136Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Go Meemee!

    If I were you I wouldn’t even have another conversation with him.

    You are a piece of art, not a piece of meat!

  137.  #137Daria on December 15, 2010 at 11:26 am

    I just spent the nite at a CDs house. It was fun!

  138.  #138Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 11:28 am


    Here’s a terrific website that might encourage you: You can subscribe for a free eletter that is always so uplifting! It’s about taking back your power as a woman, feeding your own soul, and taking nothing but the best!

  139.  #139Leo on December 15, 2010 at 11:30 am

    I wouldn’t talk to him either.

    Today you exploded, meemee, you did what you felt like.
    To me it looked like: You DIDN’T want to talk to him. You DIDN’T feel like fixing something.

    And I would stick to that.

  140.  #140Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:31 am

    As far as I am concerned I told everything I have to tell.
    I dont need a conversation.
    If he wants to fix, he can. I dont want to move a finger to “fix” things.
    I will not move a finger to fix this.

  141.  #141Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I will not will not will not will not do anything to fix anything.
    If he wants me, he can do a ritual dance to please me.

  142.  #142Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I am throwing up massively.
    I dont know what is happening.
    I am gonna take rest for some time

  143.  #143Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I dont know if you are there or if you ever read this.
    I miss you

  144.  #144Leo on December 15, 2010 at 11:40 am

    oh Meemee…please go rest and take care of yourself.
    I feel for you!!!!


  145.  #145Lucy on December 15, 2010 at 11:49 am

    I miss Honey too.

  146.  #146Jas on December 15, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Hey guys! Soo, I had a very interesting experience last night, maybe one of you may have some insight into my experience. Last night I took myself out and had a few glasses of wine, then I met up with a language group I joined. I had a great time. On the way home I decided to do an experiment. You know how Rori’s always asking us to try different things and gauge the results? I was walking through the subway and I would look at all the different men in there and I would imagine them feeling so emotionally safe with me that they would ask me to fulfill their secret sexual fantasies, especially ones that required me to be more masculine energy. And I imagined myself being soo happy to do it, and I imagined myself judging them in NO WAY whatsoever. Then I would imagine myself being completely feminine and open and allowing them to be more masculine. Guess what happened while I was having these thoughts? Many men began staring at me, breaking their necks to look at me. Smiling at me, saying hello. Some were even staring at me while walking by with their girlfriends. It happened over and over, men of all types. It was very interesting. I’ve been thinking about what could be the cause of this reaction of all this male attention. I’ve never had so many guys staring at me. What do you sirens make of this?

  147.  #147Lucy on December 15, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Thanks for the link, Tinque.

  148.  #148Ella on December 15, 2010 at 11:54 am


    I do not want to judge however it does seem like even when it would serve you better if he (X) left you alone he still hangs around like a bad smell and tries to affect you with stuff.

    I would not worry about exploding on him, sounds to me like you have been over patient before.

    Regarding throwing up do you think you have a bug or maybe it is emotional?

    Anyway take good care of yourself.

    I feel quite judgemental (of X) writing this post, however I keep reading about this situation and those are some of the things that jumps out at me.

  149.  #149Ella on December 15, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Its like even when you are asking him to leave you alone he is saying he’ll call you tommorrow.

    Feels like ‘ICK!’ to me.

    Well if you really want to be left alone then you will probably get to practice boundaries now.


  150.  #150Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Happy times but I seem to have lost a post. Here it goes… again maybe.

    This looks like an adorable Christmas present for a favorite little furry someone…or make it as a gift to a friend with a canine companion.

    For all the puppy sirens… 😉

    Little Black Dress With Pearls
    Free Doggy Knitting Sweater Pattern

    Quick knit. Only one skein of worsted yarn and size 8 needles (I’d use a size 8 circular 24″) Pattern does not require double pointed needles!


  151.  #151Ella on December 15, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    I feel Grumpy!!

    It started cus I wanted to see Mr Barman tonight and although he has made it very clear he wants to see me and I can pop in anytime, and text last night to say could he see me before Sat, he has not called to make a firm plan… so it is too late for tonight now.

    And even if he did I am still not really feeling well enough to go out. Even though I am on the mend and feeling better, the cold is still hangiing on…

    I am feel FED UP of having a cold.

    Having a cold doesn’t feel Sireny!


    Oh B*llox – he just called, this always happens (he calls when I am complaining on here that he hasn’t!) but I did not pick up.

    I still feel grumpy.

    Grumpy Siren!

  152.  #152Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 12:01 pm


    Woowwhooo! Go Siren Jas!

    That’s xactly the vibe shift Rori talks about on Modern Siren! They sense your femininity! Awesome!

  153.  #153Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 12:04 pm


    With this affecting you so deeply, I think the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to think about other things: beautiful, happy, lovely things!

    Focus on what a beautiful woman you are! Daydream about your future love romance! Imagine yourself in a beautiful gold chariot pulled by white horses, and a loving, caring man feeding you grapes and sips of wine!

    Your whole future is ahead of you, and you are leaving there, and you are earning your doctorate, and it is going to be very happy!

    The past is done.

  154.  #154Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @130: Meemee says:
    “He texted me saying he will talk to me tomorrow and he really wants to fix the situation.
    I dont know what that means. Meemee”

    Easy answer: he wants to fcuk you.


  155.  #155Ella on December 15, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Hmmm, he called again. Asked me if I would pop in – he really wants to see me.

    Not sure what to do. I want to see him but I feel so un Sireny whilst still a bit ill!!

    Grrrrrrrr to my cold!


    I said I will call back and let him know when I have decided.

  156.  #156Ella on December 15, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Jas, woohoo – that feels so cool!

  157.  #157Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Jas! I love that story! Just like Brenda said…it’s the Siren vibe shift!!

  158.  #158Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Brenda what you said to Meemee feels really good to me…:)

  159.  #159Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    @106: Meemee says:
    “The only thing I didnt like about the whole episode is his statement that “at that precise moment you wanted to be lifted up”. I found that statement annoying.”

    Let him know what you don’t like, how those words seem to you. Chocolate will probably be receptive to your feeling messages. Don’t waste time with “feeling messages” to Mr. X . He doesn’t give a care.

    “I don’t know whether he likes me or not. But when I am with him I get a vibe which is very very strong and yet I do not know what it is. Meemee”

    It sounds like good old-fashioned, healthy sexual tension. Enjoy it whether you act on it or not; it can make life juicy and spicy.

    Don’t be in a big hurry. Do not return to Chocolate Man’s house unless you are ready to have sex with him which does not mean that if you go you HAVE to have sex with him, only that you are open to it.

    In your case Meemee and your history, IMHO, no sex until you have someone that treats you really, really well and you have the kind of relationship you want.


  160.  #160Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    143: Jas says:
    “I would imagine them feeling so emotionally safe with me that they would ask me to fulfill their secret sexual fantasies,
    … you sirens make of this?”

    They could sense your sexual vibe, smell a hormone shift…?


  161.  #161Simply Shannon on December 15, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Ella, I feel smiley. You say you feel grumpy because he hasn’t called to make firm plans and it is too late to see him tonight. Now you feel mad about having a cold. Is that because you want to see him tonight? Just pointing out this “I wanna see him” versus “I don’t wanna see him”. I do this too. I want him to want to see me even if I don’t want to see him. 🙂

    Meemee, I feel annoyed. This man has way too much control, way too much say in how Meemee’s emotions play out. I don’t really give a crap what HE is doing. What I see is a girl all twisted up in knots about a boy. Meemee is beautiful and lovely. A siren. I believe Meemee is fixated on X to fixing everything, including HER. Waiting for some white knight to come in and save the day. This is impossible for any human being other than Meemee. X will fix nothing. Meemee will. Maybe once Meemee stops expecting X to fix everything and works on her own rage, then X will either back off or step up.

    “I feel angry. I don’t want to talk unless we are on a date in a public place.” Pause.

    But, but, but.

    “I feel angry. I don’t want to talk unless we are on a date in a public place.” Pause.

    Blah, blah, blah.

    “I feel angry. I don’t want to talk unless we are on a date in a public place.” Pause.

    If more blah, blah, blah…


    No more words.
    No more texts.
    No more conversation unless strictly work related.

  162.  #162Daria on December 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Jas – haha I love your tool. That is how a vibe… And how strongly it cam influence Everyone

  163.  #163Simply Shannon on December 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Anytime I respond to someone I don’t want to talk to… well… that says it all doesn’t it.

  164.  #164Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    I’m feeling “blah” today..I have noticed that around that time of the month I seem to feel really insecure and needy, whiny and wanty…

    all my NV’s show up and I feel like I’m moving backwards…

    does anyone feel like they move backwards…the past few men I’ve gone out with I see myself overfunctioning
    ex..filling in the silence, trying to fix things, making plans..basically “man managing”
    and even though I’m noticing I’m trying not to beat myself up for it…but seriously I feel like I should be a pro by now 😉

    the rest of the month I feel sireny and beautiful and very feminine…

    just the some things i’ve noticed….

  165.  #165Simply Shannon on December 15, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Pursuing my “happy places”, aka wedding photographer blogs. I love looking at people in love. I feel so smiley and happy and excited. I highly recommend an internet happy place, right at your fingertips.

    I just saw this idea. Oh my! I cannot wait to get married again. Swoon! It’s gonna be soon. I feel it. 🙂
    Two unique things we did were when we entered the church, we had all of the guests sing, “Going to the Chapel” and when we left, we had everyone sing “Here comes the sun” – it was fabulous!

    I love it!!

  166.  #166Simply Shannon on December 15, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    dang spelling typos…

    Perusing… not pursuing. Frig and frak.

  167.  #167Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Simply Shannon what do you mean in 160?

  168.  #168Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    SS…what you said in 162 feels happy to me…I love when I feel hopeful and excited and happy about the future 🙂

  169.  #169Jas on December 15, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Thanks for all your responses…hehehe. I’m feeling blessed to know about Rori and this site.

  170.  #170Simply Shannon on December 15, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Jilly, Hehe. This is one of those times when something sounds right in my head but maybe it’s not so clear in words.

    If I don’t want to talk to someone, I don’t talk to them.

    If I reply, it means I want to talk to them.

    Because the fact is I’m talking to them when I reply.

    Make sense?

    Sounds like a riddle still, doesn’t it? LOL!

    I do this all the time. Respond to someone who is pissing me off when I don’t really want to continue talking to them. I keep doing what feels bad (talking/wishing/hoping/responding). Doing the same thing hoping for a different result. That would be the definition of insanity.

  171.  #171Daria on December 15, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Hey I’m at a new level of being comfy receiving and managing my energy and noticing my feelings!

    And… I noticed I’m not getting closer emotionally to this cd – because I feel put off that he doesn’t kiss me – tho he has before.


    Kissing allows me to open up emotionally and I feel loved by a man with it!

  172.  #172Isis on December 15, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Lorelei – 110 :

    I feel worried about turning that off as well; however I think what I was getting at is that for guys, maybe it is already turned off; unless they see you as the person they want to marry.

    So I’m wondering if being in the habit of turning this off could do damage to the committed relationship later.

  173.  #173Isis on December 15, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Daria -72:

    I used to use the children viewpoint to get clarity also. It helped because I wasn’t apparently able to see whether or not it was ‘ok’ for me to be treated a certain way. Viewing it as “would it be ok for my children to be treated this way made it easier to make a decision.

  174.  #174tinque on December 15, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Isis – I’m not entirely clear on your concern. For men it’s there or it isn’t. It CAN grow with time if it’s there to begin with.

    They don’t turn things on and off sexually or psychically. They don’t tend to think in terms such as this.

    Is this helpful?

  175.  #175Daria on December 15, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Last nite I took awesome care of myself!

    I said feelings openly that before I would’ve felt embarassed or thought I had to phrase just right!

    When cd stopped holding me and I said… I feel abandoned and nothing happened.. And I was feeling lonely I’m bed w him not holding me.,,

    I got up and moved to the couch!

    Then when I woke up I felt better!

    And I told him how I had felt when it fame up, cuz I’d forgotten about it!

  176.  #176Daria on December 15, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    And when he didn’t want to do some stuff for me and told me to do it, I either did it cuz it felt cool or else said.

    I don’t want to do it myself. I feel lazy.

    And I said I had a headache he was massaging me..,

    And then he asked for his massage and I said

    I don’t want to hive u a massage right now. I’m nit feeling good… When I feel good I might feel good to give u a massage but right now I don’t have any extra energy,

    And I continued massaging Myself when he wasn’t which led to him winding up massaging me again .

    Abd I felt at piece.

    And I talked and got dressed with a new spirit Ezili Dantor.

  177.  #177Katnina on December 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    SLV 147, thank you!!!! That is going to be my new project! I LOVE it! My pup is going to look so cute & cozy in her new LBD!

  178.  #178Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    @174: Katnina says:
    re 147 “My pup is going to look so cute & cozy in her new LBD!”

    So happy someone could use it. It’s so cute! and only takes one skein of worsted. I don’t have a dog. My sister has a small dog but male. That sweater/dress is definitely for a bitch! A cool, upscale bitch! 😆


  179.  #179Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    “161: Jilly says:

    I’m feeling “blah” today..I have noticed that around that time of the month I seem to feel really insecure and needy, whiny and wanty…

    all my NV’s show up and I feel like I’m moving backwards…”

    ME.FREAKING.TOO, girl. me too. and it lasts an extra while because i have pcos. however, i changed my diet completely with the help of a nutrition/female reproductive health expert over a month ago, and for the first time since i can remember, i am handling things better than ever. i still feel insecure and needy, but it’s not intense and running my behavior like it did before. i would be happy to share my dietary changes with you if you’re interested. Just let me know!

  180.  #180LonePlum on December 15, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    140: Meemee

    You have denied existence to your feelings so far, your body makes sure you acknowledge your guts feelings this time.

    And anger is the vomit of the soul
    You have retained so much poison , you have opened your mouth in the office and threw your anger out and now it is not stopping, it is all being thrown out

    Well, try to sink into your feelings, there is more to it
    There is more to your anger
    It is more about you than about him.

    Remember you will spend your life with yourself, so you better become your best ally and get your team ready for happiness.

    Of course there is also the physical side of the anger
    The blood pression plays a part in the throwing up
    Fear makes people throw up too.
    Or causes diarrhea
    Guts reactions

    If it lasts too long, check with a doctor if your anger did not trigger a reaction ie your other health issue.

    Watch that and have a good laugh 😉


  181.  #181Daria on December 15, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I am feeling turned on… I want sex. Mmmm

    I am using my pushing out of body magic and a manifestation thingy I read that says u either hold it as ibevitable or give up

    I guess it’s inevitable haha

    My desires means they are being fulfilled

  182.  #182Sara on December 15, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Two weeks ago a friend called to tell me she had just found the perfect guy for me.

    She said that he’s handsome, very easy to talk with, has many similar interests as me and just a genuinely really nice guy. In fact she said she’d go out with him if he wasn’t a good friend of a co-worker in case things didn’t work out.

    She gave her friend who then gave to him my phone number over the weekend when he was out of town. The end of the next week I found out he would be calling on Sunday. Sunday came and went. Monday morning I received an email from my friend that he would call that night. No call. I emailed her that he hadn’t called.

    The next night he called. We spoke for 45 minutes and had a wonderful conversation. It was only awkward at the end when he said he’d like to talk to me again. I was thinking meeting him would be great, but felt caught off guard.

    This morning I received a nice update from my friend that he had found me very easy to talk with, that he had really enjoyed my laugh and thought I was fun to talk with.

    Then later in the day I received another email, this time forwarded from my friend’s co-worker. This email included his email. And, she said: “He still plans to call her; he said he just likes getting email and I think he feels he communicates a little better that way (at least at first). Might help break the ice a little more.”

    I’ve been reading your site for some time and have the e-book. However, I’m not sure what to do here. I’m thinking of just waiting for him to call me. I don’t want to pursue him. Emailing feels kind of like going backward. I think we had so much fun on the phone and I feel comfortable with him and would like to meet. What would you suggest here?



  183.  #183Lorelei on December 15, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    RE 110 and 111 – and Leo

    Hi Leo -thanks for your insights – and please don’t feel concerned that I misunderstood you or got you wrong – I just feel open to hear what other Sirens share about these experiences . . . . . I found what you said really helpful and is a bit further on that my experience in these matters.

    Now I’m dating again, after the end of a long marriage, at some point I will have to face all the triggers and eeeeek moments that will come up!! I feel willing to experiment, perhaps more than I did before I was married. But I just feel worried that too much sex without commitment – even when it’s with a nice man and is fun – will confuse my emotions and my heart so much. I suppose I worry about getting bonded too soon to a man who doesn’t want commitment, getting hurt. Looking back, this might be part of what happened with my husband. Hence I little bit triggered on this one . . not too violently triggered, but just wondering how I will play it, because I haven’t really got a plan . . .

  184.  #184RTCathy on December 15, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I am trying to remain calm BMW man emailed me last night when he couldnt sleep telling me he is still in love with his ex! On top of this the doctor has just told me that i need to be referred to the hospital within the week after a smear!
    I feel a bit numb, too many things coming at me at once. I reiterated that I would be CDing, but I cant seem to get some CD’s… I am struggling with a potentially cd2 – Haff man, he seems to just text me infrequently, has proposed dates twice and then text me the day before to postpone, he texted saying he had forgotten an event he already committed to but he owed me and would buy the drinks! I assumed he would do this anyway! i have not replied yet.. not sure what to say, maybe “i feel dissapointed, I dont want to keep setting dates and waste a perfectly good evening, what do you think”

  185.  #185Rachel on December 15, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    I had a very nice first coffee date today with a CD. He texted me later and said, “I hope you enjoyed having coffee today!”

    So I wrote back (trying to use feeling messages) … “I enjoyed it very much! “Thank You!!”

    I felt really comfortable talking with you. My mind has been swirling all day … remembering things we talked about, thinking of more questions, feeling happy to learn a little more of who you are. I hope you enjoyed it too!”

    Now he just wrote back and said, “I did!”

    I feel disappointed … I want to know what he thought! Did I lean forward too much in my response? What vibe do you all feel in my words? And should I now write back or just let it go since he didn’t really set up any further conversation?

    We had a great time! And the conversation flowed easily … whew! Thanks to all who gave me advice this morning.

  186.  #186Daria on December 15, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    RTCathy – oh no that wd feel truly overwhelming… Try sone calming herbs or apple cider vinegar if u like that kinda stuff to balance The cervix

    For text man, I wouldn’t say the stuff about wasting an evening… That feels blaming and off putting

    I would try:

    Hi! I want to see u… And I’m feeling put off by thecpart minute cancelations… I’m feeling kind of unspecial and sad… And I feel angry to feel dissapointed when I am looking forward to meeting… I don’t want to feel this way… What do u think?

  187.  #187Luzydel on December 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    I am feeling turned off by men today…

    Yesterday I saw “fling” guy and I kissed him to see if I felt something and I felt a bit Yucky. I don’t want to see him again I don’t feel it for him it was just sex and I can’t rekindle anything really; he is not my type and I have no attraction whatsoever for him….I am just attracted to the fact the he gets turned on by me.

    I lied to him by kissing him, but I wanted to find out what I really felt. and I do not see a future with him. I like the fact the he is REALLY attracted to me, but there is no intellectual connection and I cannot be with someone who I cannot talk about anything.

    Beard guy is very slow…last year we went on five dates and he did not even kiss me. He initiated all the dates, we did have that intellectual connection I want with a guy, but I did not felt that he was into me physically. He emailed me after a year of no contact and that got me by surprise; I am open to see how this goes and now I feel I have some tools to understand my emotions. No other CD’s I am doing some New years cleaning…there is someone who still bug me inside and I should let go, (I will eventually) he was the one who brought me here… I feel afraid to jump, but I have to if I want to get to the other side.

  188.  #188Daria on December 15, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Rachel – I loved your response… Very appreciative

    Now that u feel weird with his response, you don’t have to respond… Feel thru the silence and he will pick up the slack again

    If u want to respond, you can say

    Uhoh… Now i feel insecure

  189.  #189Daria on December 15, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Luzydel – I feel weird and confused and scared hearing you write that you lied to hum by kissing him

    U van think that if u want, but to me that feels bad

    And I don’t want to think that for myself. Actions don’t lie… I was open to try kissing him and I did

    Lying for me would be like saying ” oh that felt wonderful” when it didn’t.

    So I am making sure to entrench my belief that I don’t lie by doing that I font owe a man ferlings I am telling the truth by being open for a kiss even with a man I don’t like

    And I feel bad to hear u think u lied because to me lying would feel bad and I’m imagining u feel bad and I don’t want you to, I want you to feel free and happy and open

    And I u want to keep that belief then I still want that for u, just hearing it feels scary and bad for me and I wouldn’t want it

  190.  #190Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    @181: Rachel says:

    “And should I now write back or just let it go since he didn’t really set up any further conversation?”

    If I did, I’d send just a little smiley face. Or something like: “Cool. 😆 ”

    Your messages are already way longer than his…


  191.  #191marina on December 15, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Hi Dorothea,

    I got triggered by your comment on PCOS.
    I found out I might have the same, even though I am slim and have regular periods, it probably runs in my family as well. I am going to try and sort it out with my gyneacologist.

    Could you share some more information on your dietary changes?
    Thanks in advance 🙂

    I found this information by dr Mercola:

    And Natascha from Raw Radiant Health also has some info on youtube:


  192.  #192RTCathy on December 15, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I will text Haff man with the feeling statement – hadnt realised the blaming had crept in there- will take that out. Because of his vibe, avioding etc it feels easy to use the tools but with men i really like ie with BMW man, I find myself leaning forward big style and having to try to reign myself in. Before i had even thought about it i had offered for him to come to my office party, I might need to redeem myself and say it would feel good to have the transport sorted so hopefully he will drive me there and back…

  193.  #193Luzydel on December 15, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    185: Daria says

    Daria I understand your point, I guess I did not lie, but I just felt bad because I felt he was more into kissing me than me kissing him. I was open to see if there was more than just the fling we had last summer, but there was not and I admit I felt guilty, I do not want to lead anyone on…

  194.  #194RTCathy on December 15, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    It’s amazing actually that a kiss is the best kind of barometer to how I feel with a man… I have had some truly knee knocking kisses but the best have always been with those men I utterly fall for!

  195.  #195Luzydel on December 15, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    For me it is such a turn on when a man is physically attracted to me. When he touches my hair and look at my face, when he cannot get enough of me. That is why I wanted to connect with him (fling guy) more. But he doesn’t get me and what I say. I feel he doesn’t understand me…

  196.  #196Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    yeah yeah i got asked out again today. of course the answer is YES. yeahhhh

  197.  #197Daria on December 15, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    woo hoo im having so much fun! CD’s are popping all over the place! and im getting to go out!


    I now tell them… hey call me when you want to see me k? or I want to see you

    this is all with a feminine vibe though

    i don’t have time for phonecalls and texts unless a guy is calling to make plans

    or its just VERY fun to talk to him and he’s feeding me ice cream feeling energy over the phone

  198.  #198Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Luzydel, if he is not understanding you intellectually, it could be great free therapy/practice to operate purely from feelings. Of course, you’ll have to be extra clear about not wanting to be his gf since not meshing with you intellectually is likely a deal breaker…i’m guessing at least. What do you think?

  199.  #199Rachel on December 15, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Whew Daria! I feel really good that you liked my response! I am glad … I wrote it from a very good place. It’s just now that I’m feeling insecure. But I don’t think I need to tell him that. Things were really good … so I think I’ll just leave it alone.

    It would feel good to hear something else from him tonight … but that’s just me and my need to feel reassured! His face and smile told me he enjoyed the time. WHY do I need words?!

  200.  #200Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Hi Sirens ,

    A little feedback on G-man situation.
    he sent me a text from his home country –
    “Good one, I never want to see you again” .
    So my objective was achieved..for now. I will gird my borders tighter next time as I know he will be back.
    He always is.

    I felt loss of course (yes i have deep attachment still) but I also felt a budding of gentle release. I had to do what i had to do to break free , he is indeed (as Rori says , “man crack” and I am so addicted. This is the cold turkey stage..and I am hanging out ..”sick” .Last time i got way through 6 months of rehab before he sneaked up on me again while i was sick and weak in hospital and in my home ..Bast*rd !

    G man believed i would just capitulate and play his game and say nothing when he dumped me..WRONG . A woman scorned is a formidable creature especially when she has been preyed upon while in a weakened state.

    A lovely old phrase says it all …he “toyed with my affections” . I finally know what that means. I feel like I was a diversion, an ego massage , something to distract and have fun with when he felt worried about life…for 5 years!!! i always accepted him with love. He got to play White Knight a couple of times too , but the only problem was what to do with the Princess once you won her favour?? He just moved on to the next game. He needs the constant reassurance of many women pining after him.

    But for now i feel longing, then I feel sick , then i feel tears pricking , then i feel hope of building something better with a real man.I feel exhausted from not sleeping and surgical blood loss and stress.
    I am feeling angry at myself for my relapse.

    I am feeling all the Sirens hugging me again.
    Thank you for listening, I dont want to bore the lovely supportive Sirens so I shall now stop complaining.

  201.  #201marina on December 15, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    (((((Hugs)))) for you Rosa!
    You are and will be OK.

    And it doesn’t feel to me that you are complaining.

    You are learning and so are we through you 😉

    Ciao, Marina

  202.  #202Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    rosa, i am totally full of myself and also unable to wrap my mind and heart around health situations like what you have been going through, so I haven’t been replying to your posts. but, i just wanted to share an old saying that feels relevant to this whole gman thing. It goes like this:


  203.  #203Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    @195: Rosa says:
    “I know he will be back. He always is.”

    Ah, yes. If he really never wanted to see you again, he wouldn’t have sent you a message saying it!… and/or it would have been much, much harsher. So, well, we know… 😆

    ” A woman scorned is a formidable creature especially when she has been preyed upon while in a weakened state. ”

    I think I mentioned…the “mantra” “I will kick his ass” is ever so helpful to say aloud during your alone times. Really builds up the energy, like a steam engine, like the wheels turning on those old steam locomotives.

    “I am feeling angry at myself for my relapse. ”

    Please don’t be angry at yourself, Rosa. Pining hurts. Oh, how I know. But for me I believe it’s also nature’s little way of letting me know I still have the hormones flowing and I still have heart and soul prepped and ready for what I really want.

    Hug yourself. Give yourself kisses.

    I’ll send you a few…


  204.  #204Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    I love my Sirens! Dorothea and SLV..

    I laughed out loud for first time in days ..
    (I am alone most of the time and Max the labrador only talks with his eyes and paws)

    I WILL KICK HIS ASS !!!! I am singing the refrain starting pianissimo and working up to F’ING LOUD !!!!

    Then i finish with a meaningfully resonant F*CK HIM!!!!!

    Thank you Sirens for that musical interlude .. I am a classical singer and i made it sound very Wagnerian ..:)

  205.  #205Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 6:45 pm


    I swiped this from Terri Hernon MacDonald.
    [from her blog In Uncategorized on December 14, 2010 at 3:56 pm]

    Terri Hernon MacDonald:

    “Not Every Guy Exists For ‘Just One Thing’
    [she goes on to say…]
    And I have proof. Check out this fascinating article I found on Salon this morning and let it warm your soul.

    From a law of attraction standpoint, if you believe every man is a dog, you’ll develop a habit of attracting a lot of dogs. (Or, as Deepak Chopra and millions of others have observed: What you think about, you tend to bring about.)

    Read this article. Understand that better men exist. Start attracting better men.”


  206.  #206Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 6:52 pm


    I WILL KICK HIS ASS !!!! I am singing the refrain starting pianissimo and working up to F’ING LOUD !!!!
    Then i finish with a meaningfully resonant F*CK HIM!!!!!
    Thank you Sirens for that musical interlude .. I am a classical singer and i made it sound very Wagnerian ..:) ”

    Hit it, sister! 😀

    Wagner – RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES – Furtwangler


  207.  #207Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    nice. i played wagner in symphony on viola.

  208.  #208LonePlum on December 15, 2010 at 7:18 pm


    Good and I am taking care of his balls
    I got 2 lovely bricks here, they’ll hear him all the way to Paris
    Turn the music louder 😉

    I thought I had killed him 2 days ago, you know, I was killing X and G_man and D
    pffff what a long day work it was, from Paris to Australia to India, via England
    I guess he was not completely dead.
    Good, I was dying to use my brand new balls squasher. Let’s hear it.

  209.  #209Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    This one is birthday greetings 🙂
    A birthday I wont forget anytime soon, note the bitter sweet melody and “Die Rosen” – very appropriate..I am just adding the bit Wagner forgot…..


  210.  #210Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Lone Plum …remind me not to mess with you anytime soon!!!

    You should charge for this service
    ” Sirens Secret ” ..I can see the website now…

  211.  #211Katnina on December 15, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Wow I feel enlightened!
    Just witnessed the ‘girlfriend for now’ desire in my good friend. I’ve know him for 10 yrs, we’ve hooked up occasionally (but both agree we are better as friends than as lovers).

    He went on 2 dates w a girl. She is ‘okay, cute, nice’ but ‘not the one’ (his words).
    He called her & left a voicemail. She hasn’t called him back.
    He called me to ask what he should do & here’s what he said:
    ‘i am sick of dating & going on first dates all the time! I just want a girlfriend I can hang out with and go places with and have sex with for now. Why isn’t she calling me back?’

    I felt ‘aha!’ when i heard this.

    I’ve never really recognized this behavior/desire in action. Before i learned about this here (thank you Rori & Sirens!), I always just assumed that if a guy wanted me to be his girlfriend he saw a long term future with me.
    And if a good guy like my friend, who says he wants to get married and have kids soon can have this ‘girlfriend for now’ type of thinking, then i think almost any man can!

    This reaffirms my desire to not be a girlfriend ever again!
    I want to be a wife! Not a ‘girlfriend for now!’

  212.  #212Luzydel on December 15, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Thanks Dorothea, I did practice some feeling messages with him, but that only got him to get closer, maybe he is more emotional than I really would like to.

    I am a brainiac, I like to talk about Science, Art, Psychology, and nonsense useless information, but then finish things with great hot sex all night… I want both things in a relationship the passion, the wild crazy sex and the never ending conversation…I am greedy 🙂

  213.  #213Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    @206: Katnina says:
    “Wow I feel enlightened!
    Just witnessed the ‘girlfriend for now’ desire in my good friend…
    ‘I just want a girlfriend I can hang out with and go places with and have sex with for now. Why isn’t she calling me back?’ ”

    Wow! is right. Straight from a guy’s mouth.

    I’ve been wondering about these “commitment” and “LTR” terms. Like… what do these mean?!

    I’ve seen people taking pride in the number of LTR they’ve had… like all their relationships have been LTR… 😯

    How long is “long term?” Does that mean a guy is proud of dumping a woman, or her him, every… what… three to five years…?

    And “commitment”…what’s that? I’ve been asking and getting vague answers. What does everyone think? Does everyone want to change up every three to five years?

    What does Rori say “commitment” is?


  214.  #214Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    That was very clear thanks Katnina

    I agree totally .
    Girlfriend for now is a more recent social invention and I dont think it works well for women.

    It used to be that casual dating of several men was the norm for women in our mothers eras , OR serious courting with intent- marriage on the table … Nothing in between.

    Girlfriend- for -now is the aim for many guys and some girls , but it generally suits men better. It is the really the same thing as Friends With Benefits with an exclusivity clause and perhaps a little more regularity.

    This is NOT what I want. I do recognise that men fall in love through sex and often just being around us a lot. BUT men are also prone to deciding at the outset what they want with us , right from Day 1.

    How did you feel Katnina when it was spelled out so clearly?

  215.  #215Luzydel on December 15, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    ‘i am sick of dating & going on first dates all the time! I just want a girlfriend I can hang out with and go places with and have sex with for now.’

    This what most men really want at the beginning…some women are able to change their mind. But men do not get into a relationship with marriage mentality, they get into a relationship with ‘girl friend” mentality.

    That is Why Rory says that we should raise our level of difficulty. Sure I can go out with a guy, have fun, even have sex, but I am not his GF we are just dating.

  216.  #216Katnina on December 15, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Hugs to you Rosa!!! Singing brings healing energy, belt it from the rooftops!!!
    I think g man reminds me of don quijote, off fighting windmills.
    Sending lots of warm healing energy to you!

  217.  #217Rosa on December 15, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    “When you’re in love with someone, it’s not just sex, it’s a communion of souls. It’s intimacy of the purest kind. You’re not just baring your privates. You’re baring everything”

    I like this bit from the article link you posted SLV.
    This is how it is for me when i love the man.

    The sad thing is when its not like that for him too..or worse still you imagine it is but for him its just a game..just an itch to scratch, he may not even notice your fully bared and open heart…

    I have felt like that , and sometimes I have cried after sex for that reason. The soul reached out and felt a void…

  218.  #218Katnina on December 15, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Ok universe, I am starting to get it.
    told my friend I gave up on phishman last night.
    And then who just replied to my Facebook message response from last week?
    I am grateful universe.
    But also annoyed at myself.
    Please let me learn this lesson by heart, I’m sick of repeating it!

  219.  #219Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    @212: Rosa says”

    “..or worse still you imagine it is but for him its just a game..just an itch to scratch, he may not even notice your fully bared and open heart… ”

    Absolutely the worst and often the guy is not a villain (when I say “I will kick his ass” that really is just for me :d ) and his attitude is “you’re OK, right?” and he’s total clueless if and why I’m sad… or… ready to “kick his ass!” 😯

    So, I really want to get a handle on this as Maurice Chevalier sings…’forever is much shorter than before.’

    And I say: “OK, guy, I don’t have time to fool around and waste time, sweet cakes…” 😆


  220.  #220Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    I’m watching the “Project Runway” shows on DVD, season by season. It always psyches me up for my personal projects. CD is one of my projects; I’ll be in pre-launch phase for a while.


  221.  #221Katnina on December 15, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    I literally felt my entire body say ‘aha!’
    I am not romantically interested in this guy, so I didn’t take it personally, but I really just felt like a little light went off and illuminated this truth for me.
    I had of course read about it here and thought that it was true, but here was proof!
    It felt amazing actually.
    Like I am growing and learning. And actually hearing what he is saying instead of what I want to hear. It felt like good practice.

    I understand Rori’s definition of commitment (or Happy Ever After) to be whatever WE believe our Happy Ever After to be. Whatever gets our needs met. Whatever feels safe to us.

    For me for a long time, that was an exclusive dating relationship where we lived apart and had plenty of time alone (this was just after I watched my parents’ marriage implode, learned of my father’s five years of infidelity, and basically had my foundation totally shook up. I couldn’t believe in marriage at that time. The idea of it felt far too risky and unsafe.).

    It’s been a year and a half since my 4.5 year exclusive dating relationship ended. And in the past six months, I have realized my Happy Ever After is marriage.
    To me, marriage is a lifelong commitment to an emotional, physical, and financial partnership. I want my husband on my team and I want to be on his team.
    I don’t know if I want kids. I dont feel that having children is a ‘must do’ for me. I like children but i dont feel that my life will be ‘less than’ if i choose not to have them.
    That might change. I really loved your mother’s saying ‘if you aren’t strong enough to do it for yourself, do it for your kids.’
    I want to incorporate that into my evaluation of how I feel with a man. If he would not be a good father, or I would not be a good mother when around him, then… NEXT!

  222.  #222Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Simply Shannon @ 167….yes I get what you are saying…you were saying both things 🙂 that you talk when you want to and talk when you don’t want too lol

    Dorothea @176…I would love to hear what your new plan is….that feels so interesting to me…I’ve thought about going back to school and getting my nurse practitioner or something so I can work with women and their hormones…I’m researching it all the time 🙂 I would love to know what your “expert” got her degree in if she’s a medical doctor or what? (the thought of going back to school feels dreadful!!)
    I feel lucky that I’m aware of whats going on with me around that time of the month so I can “usually” talk myself out of saying/doing things I normally wouldn’t that make me feel/sound pyscho lol

    I liked what you said to Rosa 🙂

  223.  #223Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    aw LI brought flowers to my house tonight. how cute and sweet. i made him some tea but i feel weird about how i acted when he was leaving.

    it’s just…i’m working…so he had to go. and i felt closed off when he was leaving, so i kept my face pointed down so he wouldn’t kiss me.


    it feels horrible awful when i don’t want to kiss and guys do it anyway.

    i feel relief, like LI is “getting” some things.

    odd, i started talking to all these other guys and accepting dates, and now LI has stopped acting like a total mutant.

    it makes me wonder. was it my overfunctioning and leaning forward that caused his mutant behavior?

    unsure. but loving how everything feels much better now.

  224.  #224Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    my expert is a fertility acupuncturist. if you live in CO i will introduce you!

  225.  #225Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    @216: Katnina says:
    “I really loved your mother’s saying ‘if you aren’t strong enough to do it for yourself, do it for your kids.’
    I want to incorporate that into my evaluation of how I feel with a man. If he would not be a good father, or I would not be a good mother when around him, then… NEXT!”

    Thanks. I was going to post about that again when I took the time. That tool, I’m calling all the ways of thinking I learned…”tools”…thanks to Rori, can be used to choose a man but choosing a man who is also a good father is not the “tool.”

    The tool is using a high value besides yourself to do what your mind tells you needs to me done but where there is reluctance to act due to procrastination, fear, or whatever else emotional resistance. Thus, doing it for the greater good.

    The tool can be used for things such as: stopping smoking, returning to school, changing jobs, learning to drive, etc or in my suggestion to Meemee to completely and totally dump the man she is involved with.

    I hadn’t thought about the tool for awhile since I have an empty nest. I think it works well for mothers and women in their fertile years.

    I think now I’ll revive the tool and refashion it as “if I’m not strong enough to do it for myself, I’ll do it for my ‘inner little girl’.” I think that will work for me now.


  226.  #226Rori Raye on December 15, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Sara – just smile. Be as relaxed as you’re able to be – use my tools to speak if you’re nervous, and just let him be. Let it be quiet if it’s quiet – and be OKAY with that. When you make it safe for him – he’ll open up. Love, Rori

  227.  #227Dorothea on December 15, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    slv, i like where you’re going with your tool.

    i find i am always more willing and brave to do things for other people than for myself. for example, i’ll clean other people’s kitchens as a favor but avoid my own. by doing it for my inner little girl, i can do the same thing.

    kinda feels multi personalityish though… woah i feel scared. and i miss sally jesse raphael’s talk show.

  228.  #228Ella on December 15, 2010 at 9:31 pm


    I really need some support.

    Just came back from seeing Mr Barman. It is 5am over here.

    I did the no g.friend speech.

    Well we started talking and there was an opening so I said how I always feel really good with him and love spending time with him and ‘I don’t want to be a g.friend’

    He: what do you mean?
    Me: I want to be a wife!
    He: Don’t you think it is a bit soon for that?
    Me: (playfully laughing) well of course, I wouldn’t marry a person until I was sure they were the right one! I just don’t want to commit myself to one man and close down my dating options until he offers me more than just a relationship.

    Then we discussed it for a bit with him saying stuff like ‘well that is the stage before you become a wife’ and ‘that is how you get to really know someone, not through dating!’ and ‘well everyone else does it that way, I am not alone in this!’.

    I had to keep remembering to stay with my feelings and not start debating, explaining or defending, which was difficult.

    I told him I do feel conflicted because I do have strong attraction feelins for him but then repeated the speech.

    He asked me where monogomy fitted into all this and I asked him to define monogomy. Did he mean sexually as I would not feel comfortable sleeping with lots of men anyway.

    He said no he meant in terms of not seeing anyone else and committing to each other. I said for me this would be marriage or some other kind of life long committment.

    He asked me what we should do and I said I did not know.

    He said the cards were in my hand because he has already told me what he wants (me).

    I asked what he was offering. He said he was offering me himself and everything he has.

    He told me he wants to be with me but he isn’t ready for ‘that’ (marriage). I said I was not asking for marriage at this stage but just felt that dating until we were at that stage could be a good option.

    He told me he does not want to share me.

    He asked how would I feel if he were dating other women and I said I would probably not feel comfortable and may not continue to date him.

    He asked if I was seeing anyone else and asked me to ‘put my cards on the table’.

    I told him I date lots of guys but that I feel very good with him.

    He said that things cannot go any further if I am going to see other guys bc he knows he would not be able to handle it.

    I just told him how I felt about getting into another relationship w/o real committment and how that doesn’t feel good to me.

    He said relationship means commitment and I said not neccessarily and don’t some guys get in a relationship with a girl ‘just for the time being’ he looked kinda shocked like ‘huh, you know about that?!!’

    He said what about a relationship with maybe a view to that (marriage) later on.

    Anyway it did not get resolved.

    There was an icy atmosphere for a bit and then it was weird but it was like his vibe actually shifted towards me more.

    And then we cuddled and stuff and it felt even more loving than normal, and I don’t know but it felt like he had respect for me, and also he valued and loved me.

    There was also lots of eye gazing, more than normal, and he told me he cannot usually look into people’s eyes.

    Well F knows what it all means. We drifted off to sleep cuddling and then after I few hours I wanted to come home. This time it was no issue as I had my car so I just told him I was going and he saw me out (half asleep).

    Well I feel weird.

    I feel frightened that he will just not bother at all with me now.

    And another part of me feels like nothing is different.

    I feel frightened of being judged if he tells other people BUT I also felt incredibly strong and safe after I said it (about not wanting to be a g.friend). I felt empowered and good and a sense of calm came over me.

    Oh, I don’t want him to not bother with me now though. But we are definitely at logger heads.

    He told me I needed to make a decision, which I did not do. I can see that it is too early to consider marriage right now, and he doesn’t want me to see anyone else, but I am not really wanting to accept just relationship.

    Any advice/support greatly recieved just feeling a lil confused and out there right now.

  229.  #229Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Ella!! That is an awesome story!! Way to go…it sounded like you were a pro at this 😉 I feel curious and very interested to hear what happens…yay for you!

  230.  #230Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    228: Ella says:
    “… I said not neccessarily and don’t some guys get in a relationship with a girl ‘just for the time being’ he looked kinda shocked like ‘huh, you know about that?!!’…”

    Wow! once again. Have we stumbled upon some secret guy thing? Is it like “let’s tell them they can be ‘girlfriends’ and then we don’t have to do anything else?”

    My, oh my…this is something.


  231.  #231Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Just remember this is about you…I feel so proud of you lol it feels funny to me that I feel proud of you 🙂

    I’ve only given the girlfriend speech once…but we didn’t make it past a third date so I feel it didn’t really count…

    I have been dating pipeliner man for about 3 months but it’s kinda long distance”ish” so he knows that I would think he was crazy if he told me he wants me to only date just him…but if he did live here and asked me to be exclusive I would feel scared/nervous that he would leave if I said no…not until I have a real commitment

    so yay! for you Ella…that’s awesome!

  232.  #232Ella on December 15, 2010 at 9:56 pm


    I totally do feel scared/nervous that he will just leave… completely!

  233.  #233Ella on December 15, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    But I also felt like I wanted to/had to say it… as I don’t want to spend the next 3 years in a relationship to nowhere…

  234.  #234Ella on December 15, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Not sure how this will be resolved as he wants me to be with him and stop dating others, I want to be with him but continue to date others for now…

    Maybe he will come up with a creative solution!

    I wonder.

    Here’s hoping.

  235.  #235Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    I went to the movies tonight with a girlfriend and she was asking about my dating life and how it sounds exciting and amazed that I’m dating so many men (so many meaning more than the usual just one at a time) and she said…”so…let me get this right…you’re not going to be exclusive with any man until one of them proposes?????????!!!” and I said, “YEP” and she couldn’t believe it…i felt super sireny and superstarish…it felt great!! 🙂
    I want to help her because she doesn’t date at all and has never done the internet dating thing…but …sigh….she’s not open to it..but she likes asking me about my dating lol

  236.  #236Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Ella…I feel like I’m in it with you lol…keep us posted!! …it’s like knowing what we know now it seems obvious that we wouldn’t get into a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship when we want more…but yet it’s all so new too

  237.  #237Jilly on December 15, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    ok its late here…I’m starting to feel super sleepy 🙂

  238.  #238The Nikita Show on December 15, 2010 at 10:13 pm


    I nominate }215# love it!

    And…….how’d that gf thing work for his last gf?

    You know, the one he just detached from?

    (read:silly Nikita playing devil’s advocate,sort of)

    I like the exchanges you two are having.

    I do feel strong like you 🙂 here, holding your space.

    Gold Star!!! *


    I thought gf speeches were reserved for men we actually were serious about but didn’t seem ready?

    This feels a little early…this speech stuff?

    Cant you just say you are interested in taking it slow and being courted? I mean, wow- no gf speech already???



    Go Siren, Go 😀

  239.  #239Ella on December 15, 2010 at 10:24 pm



    Well we’ve been seeing each other about a month but I felt I needed to do the speech as he was kinda assuming and talking like I am his girlfriend!!

    Also I do like him.

  240.  #240Brenda on December 15, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Hi Sara!

    RE: #182 – Welcome! One of Rori’s feeling messages that I copied and used tonight was this:

    “I’m feeling really confused…I’m feeling burned out on phone and email. Would you like to see me, or do you want to let this go?”

    Sounds perfect for your situation! What do you think?

  241.  #241Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    @231: Jilly says:
    ” I would feel scared/nervous that he would leave if I said no…not until I have a real commitment…”

    Hi Jilly, I don’t know if I asked you–I’ve been asking around. What do you mean by “real commitment?”

    How would you know if there is a real commitment?


  242.  #242Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    “I thought I had killed him 2 days ago, you know, I was killing X and G_man and D
    pffff what a long day work it was, from Paris to Australia to India, via England
    I guess he was not completely dead.”

    Oh my!! You brought laughter to my world 🙂 🙂

  243.  #243Senior Lady Vibe on December 15, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    @238: The Nikita Show says:

    “I thought gf speeches were reserved for men we actually were serious about but didn’t seem ready?
    This feels a little early…this speech stuff?”

    I’m learning things here and I think this is a big one. Daria posted–I hope I’m getting this right–that she lets the guys know in first or second date.

    This is her no g/f speech with the *blink blink*


  244.  #244Leo on December 15, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    @138 – Lorelei!

    If you are afraid that sex will create those bonding feelings to early and that this then might repeat your story… I would just wait longer not having sex.

    Having “non-commital” sex only works – if it works for you.
    Means, if you are afraid of the idea or what it might cause in you, I would step back and not have sex until you really do feel comfortable having non-commital sex, or until you got a commitment.

    To me… it was clear that this man i slept with will NOT be the One. I just knew and felt it. But we both felt this attraction. So we did have sex. And when we went on another date I tried to only focus on THAT date. And again… I felt he is not the One for me. He was nice to be around and very hot. But that was it.

    If you dont feel comfortable about the idea of having sex and with the “aftermath” then just dont do it until you truely feel comfortable.


  245.  #245Meemee on December 15, 2010 at 11:35 pm


  246.  #246Sara on December 15, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    Thanks for the welcome! And, thanks for the feeling message! I think it could be useful after he connects with me again! 🙂

    I really want my interactions to be different with guys than they have been in the past. I feel like I have so much to learn. And, I feel like I”m in the right place!

    How did your feeling message (“I’m feeling really confused…I’m feeling burned out on phone and email. Would you like to see me, or do you want to let this go?”) go over when you used it tonight? Did you get a reaction that felt good to you?


  247.  #247Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 2:08 am

    Ella @ 228

    Have to write quickly as I have to go out any minute now . . will come back to this later.

    But I just have to say Wow – it sounds like you did fantastically, and in your position I have no idea how I would feel, but I might feel terrified . . . both before and after. But so glad you also feel strong.

    But the whole thing throws up the question of what does a man think we mean – what does he understand us to be saying – when we say “I don’t want to be a girlfriend”?

    Because, for many couples (in the West, at least), girlfriend IS the bit that comes before marriage. . . Everyone I know who is married, was in a girlfriend/boyfriend thing before being engaged and married. So it is a big unknown for a guy who gets the no-girlfriend speech.

    Maybe we should’t expect the men to “get” it straight away . .

    I felt rather moved, though, by his thing about (haven’t time to read back and quote it exactly) what he was offering – something like “myself and everything I am.” That’s quite a big offer in itself . . .

    If there is follow-up conversation with him, could you build in things like . . “It would feel good to be able to get to know you better . . .” Or, if relevant, “I feel bad that this is producing tension between us . .” “It would feel good to go on talking about this . .”

    And did he get that if you continue with him, there could/would be sexual exclusivity? Did he get that continuing to meet other men would be in a fairly light way . .?

    But, I feel so much respect for the way you’ve done this . . .

  248.  #248Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:21 am

    Ella – brava

    Anyway it did not get resolved.

    There was an icy atmosphere for a bit and then it was weird but it was like his vibe actually shifted towards me more.

    Yes, even tho it didn’t get resolved or because of it – no closure

    And even tho he was mad he was Mire Attracted to You

    Cuz now he Has to see you as the girl who wants marriage… There’s no mire second guessing

    I’m so excited!

  249.  #249Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:51 am

    Actually it’s not necessary that he ‘get’ that we will ‘concede’ sexual exclusivity or that other dating is ‘light’ – we don’t want it to be.

    The thing is he will now have to see u’s as a woman he dates for marriage – every woman comes w her own tricks and preferences.

    So far not even the most feminine guy has stopped calling to see me because of it. Yes they get mad or don’t like it… But they call and make plans even more.

  250.  #250Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:58 am

    The goddess has made my eartips – hot like chetos.

    Slidy feeling of blood and honey.

    My tummy hurts.

    I am afraid.

    I have attracted the upheaval again, I feel weak I do not want to care for myself.

    And I need yo remember… Feeling really strOng free and powerful

    I can heal

    Rubbing my spiral tummy.

  251.  #251Rosa on December 16, 2010 at 4:07 am

    Knock softly..That is Hilarious! I googled the F*ck You Lyrics …. Thanks so much for that gift of giggles.

    So far hes had the Wagnerian FaaaahhhhhhhK KEEEEEEEW and now this !!!!!!!!!!
    Plus the Locomotive version of Keeeckeesasssssss!!!
    Not to mention the Worldwide Double Brick ball Smashup !!!! Sirens have been most creative today 🙂

    “Now I know that I had to borrow

    Beg and steal and lie and cheat.

    Trying to keep ya, trying to please ya.

    ‘Cause being in love with you ass ain’t cheap.”

    TRUE … but I have given up paying with my happiness or my health..No more lying or cheating by default. I’m finally clean ..bring on the rehab!!!!


    Part of me is screaming “Maintain the Rage”
    Part is feeling giggles and guffaws of ridulocity
    Part is saying, “hes not all bad, just misguided”
    Part is still deeply in love with him-good and bad.
    But the sum total is bittersweetness.

    And the final word is OVER
    I am taking up knitting with SLV !!!!!!!

    (Meemee be careful ..X is very similar to Gman)

  252.  #252Rosa on December 16, 2010 at 4:27 am

    Ella , hey you totally wowed it on the no GF speech.

    May I suggest he is likely to “test ” this idea and come up with a plan to distract you. Actually though , he will probably fall right in love with you because human nature is human nature…:)

    So get ready to repeat the speech in new and interesting forms..Rori says “grumbling is only grumbling” and you have heard an initial grumble . as he falls for you more you will expect more grumbling!!!!!

    I so love this stuff. i wish i had known it years ago. Anyway I will be ready to use it soon as I can date again.

  253.  #253Rosa on December 16, 2010 at 4:38 am


    “Maybe we should’t expect the men to “get” it straight away .”

    I totally agree . I suspect most men have to hear it 2-3 times and feel your openness to meeting and greeting others over TIME before they do get it.

    If he leaves you will know he wasnt able to offer what you want. But actually , he offered himself and all he has ..that doesnt sound like a pass out ticket to me!!!!!!

    So, it boils down to how you handle the you feel it , dive right in , feel it more and watch it transmute into something that feels a lot better, hopefulness, even joy 🙂

  254.  #254Rosa on December 16, 2010 at 4:49 am

    SLV @219

    So, I really want to get a handle on this as Maurice Chevalier sings…’forever is much shorter than before.’ (Cute words Maurice…)

    SLV , I respect your time frames , we are both healing from physical mayhem. Thius is how I feel when i read your words.

    I feel excited and alive when i dive in to new experiences.

    I feel better for experiencing BEFORE i get all the answers.

    I feel worried and concerned that trying to learn it and understand it in my head BEFORE experimenting will dry me up.

    I dont feel good about getting a handle on men and relationships in a theoretical way . I feel bad when i try to prepare and control outcomes.

    CDing , even online,actually doing and feeling it , feels much better .

    What do you think?

  255.  #255Dorothea on December 16, 2010 at 5:22 am

    true that, i have never had a guy disappear on me because i said no gf. they grumbled for sure! and even said “i can’t date you if you’re dating other men.”

    yeah, haha, that’s what they all say sweetie;)

  256.  #256Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:37 am


    Well done for remaining strong and keeping focus on you / not beinig pulled off your horse!

    Re 252 – I LOVE that song. For some reason it awlays makes me smile.


  257.  #257Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:40 am

    Dorothea re 256

    – that is good to hear as I have never used it (the speech) on someone I like before!

    Feeling lots of doubts/fears.

    But also a sense of Siren power!

  258.  #258Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Daria – Yay, I feel good reading your words.

    Rosa re 253 – I LOVE this post. I love the stuff about grumbling! Lol, grumbly men!!

    I don’t mind if he comes up with a suitable ‘commitmment’ kind of plan over time, but until then I would just have to reject any unsatisfactory ‘plans’…

    And yes, may have to repeat the speech in new and interesting forms! Lol.

    So far when I woke this morning a text from him saying he is confused about where we left things, he wants me so bad but thinks I’m holding back and can’t see why when we seem to work so well together!

    He he he… (aw I feel like a lil DEVIL!!) he he

    Well I replied that I feel good about him too and when with him and want him too but don’t want to be someone’s g.friend. what does he think?

    Still feel slightly scared… and somehow like a power hungry fiend in a movie who is trying to take over the world and doing an evil laugh ‘whahahahah!!!’.

    Hmmm weird.

  259.  #259Ella on December 16, 2010 at 6:32 am

    Ow, so he just called.

    He asked me what I want to do. I said what does he mean?

    He said I have to make a decision. I said I don’t view it like that. I said I am just telling him how I feel about stuff and that it would be nice if we can just find something that feels good.

    I repeated some other stuff and said I don’t just want to be with another person in a relationship, and then another and so on…

    He said he understood and he agrees.

    I repeated that I feel really good with him. And also that I am happy just contiuing how we are, however he is not.

    He doesn’t want me to date others.

    Is this still grumbling? Do I just hold firm.

    What if he calls me on it?

    I guess I just say ‘oh I feel really sad’ but accept what he says and do the walk away.

    I mean I am willing to walk away for my happiness. But I’d rather continue seeing him.

    However it will be interesting to see what he is offering me…

    at the moment it seems to be something like ‘an exclusive relationship with the view to marriage if it goes well’.

    Hmmm, isn’t this just another word for girlfriend??

    And why not just continue dating till we know it is right for marriage???

    Owww, I know, I know, lol… it is because he doesn’t want me to date others… he doesn’t want to risk losing me, or maybe he doesn’t want that pressure of having to step up bc I won’t give myself to him…

    I wonder if there is anything he could offer me that would make me consider not dating others??

    But even if I did I would still continue to CD in the way Rori and others on here do… kinda CD-ing within a relationship/marriage.

    This is something I would like to explore more just so I know all my options.

    I mean do the married people give out their numbers and go on coffee dates or is it more the way you behave around men in your day to day life?

    Can anyone talk about how this works in practice please?

  260.  #260Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Ella – I also feel a bit devilish and “Whahahahaha!” (evil, knowing laugh) doing a number of the tools.

    I’ve found that when there is a gap in the conversation, say on the phone, that I can now leave gaps to let the man pick up the slack, and (at my end of the phone) I’m often grinning during these bits!!

    It’s fun! It’s empowering! And I find that with the few friends I talk to about what I’m doing with meeting new men, I sound, and feel, as if I have a completely different energy to normal. When I told my friends about things like leaning back, dating different men (none yet need the no-gf speech), not paying . . I feel, and I sound, as if I’ve had a personality transplant. Not of being a heartless bitch, but of being a confident woman with men. And it’s taken me nearly 50 years to get here!! It’s a first. It’s weird. Very weird, but it’s GRrrreat! Grrrrrl power!

    One thing about your guy, tho. Girlfriend does mean different things to different men. And what you said he said about wanting to see how things work out . .and girlfriend coming before wife (paraphrasing, not quoting here), and offering himself and all he is (again, not quoting exactly) sounds to me like he is taking you seriously . . .

    And the look of shock on his face . .only you were there, so only you know what non-verbal stuff was going on in the facial shock look. . . but, it COULD be him thinking “how does she know we men would do this”, but is it also possible that he was shocked because he thought you thought that was all he was offering . . . (ie a temporary fling or similar)?

    Evan Marc Katz’s site is very good on the man’s perspective on being in the moment, being happy now, and that men aren’t planning ahead or projecting ahead about things . . .

    I don’t know how you should go on with this – “I hear that you think it’s unclear/confusing . . I love being with you, and it would feel good to clarify things . . ?”

    I gather that is it un-sireny to explain things too much, but giving him another shot of positive feedback, and the invitation to work things out together would let him know that you’re not trying to give him the brush-off. To some men, depending on their definition of ‘girlfriend,’ “I don’t want to be your girlfriend’ MIGHT sound like “Go away if you are not ready to propose marriage now.” There must be a way of going on with feeling messages, going on talking, going on with having fun together, so that he can find out more about you, feel closer to you , etc.

    Look forward to hearing what happens next . .

  261.  #261NewLeaf on December 16, 2010 at 6:41 am

    There’s a guy who consults with the company I work for. He’s (on paper) a good match and he’s always hovering around and I think he’s going to ask me out. He’s going to be here next week.

    I had an awful dream that I had been sexual with him. It wasn’t like I was forced to or anything, and it was okay sex, but in the dream- after I was totally ick-ed out and just ewwwww.

    Thank you, subconscious, for telling me how that would feel without my having to learn the hard way.


  262.  #262Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Ella, Rori says in one or more of her programmes that, being married, she CD’s all the time. Eye contact, smiles, feeling messages, invitational tools, being in her body, soft and open on the outside, strong boundaries on the inside, waterwheel etc etc. But that she doesn’t give out her number or go on coffee dates. Once the ring/commitment is there, no actual date-dates.

    My 261 post was going up in answer to your 259, as your next post came in.

    Somewhere in one of the programmes, there is something about giving a certain period of time or seeing how it goes with a man, and then taking a rain check . . sorry can’t remember which programme (Targeting Mr Right or Commitment Blueprint, probably . .). I find I don’t remember all the tools, I only get the hang of them when I have to start using them live and in the field!

    It is his truth that he doesn’t yet know if you are “the one” – EMK says that men do not know quickly.

    I don’t know what else to suggest at the moment, but feel it’s really important that you stay in your feelings and fun goddess vibe, so he feels: here is a fun, open, cool woman, i.e. a very warm, inviting woman who I feel good with . . .

    I wish I had better ideas to suggest . . You’re doing fantastically, from where I’m standing.

    “It would feel great to go on figuring this out with you – I’m still figuring this out as well . . .” (which is the truth, after all). “I don’t know the answers either, but it could be fun finding out together.” This would send a clear message that you like him, and are interested in getting to know him better . . .

    Or does saying “I’m still figuring this out as well” fatally undermine the clarity of the first statements?

    No rush to reply to him until you know what you want to say.

    But my feeling is that now you’ve started the no-gf conversation with him, you sort of have to hold your line with him, for your own self-respect, and for his respect of you.

    Hang in there, till some wiser sirens come on-line!!

  263.  #263Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 7:41 am

    255: Rosa says:
    “SLV @219
    I feel worried and concerned that trying to learn it and understand it in my head BEFORE experimenting will dry me up.
    I dont feel good about getting a handle on men and relationships in a theoretical way . I feel bad when i try to prepare and control outcomes.
    CDing , even online, actually doing and feeling it , feels much better .
    What do you think?

    Well, Me thinks:

    Me is excited about learning and understanding about Me.

    Me is doing CD by eagerly plunging into the pool of things that make Me happy, thereby reinforcing Me staying focused on Me.

    Me wants to have Me’s emotions in tune with Me’s head. Me must know what Me is thinking.

    Me wants to know where the trains are and where they are going so Me can plan Me’s itinerary and put Me on the right trains.

    Me is juicier when understanding the game, knowing the plays and the players.

    Me wants to be as healthy and attractive as possible and Me wants to lose 30 pounds…among other things.

    Me wants to get the best bang (no pun intended) for Me’s buck and Me is aware of the numbers.

    The numbers, the numbers, the numbers.

    Me is aware of the numbers and Me must, must, must position ME to build momentum so that Me does not crumble into a puddle of despair at “non-starting.”

    Me knows that the pool of age appropriate men in Me’s age decade is er, uh, limited.

    Me knows statistics also show that while given each woman’s pool of men according to age appropriateness, in online dating sites 95% of men in Me’s age appropriate group will absolutely EXCLUDE Me due to age and racial preference. Men of ALL races.

    Of the small number of men left, 85% will be unattractive to ME. Me knows we are now talking about a tiny number of propects.

    Me can’t afford to waste time and prospects by saying NEXT resulting from ME being unprepared.

    Me has been taught by her parents and interested others that preparation is KEY and due to the numbers jag, preparation is mandatory. Me is smart and does not ignore reality.

    Me is womanly but not feminine; Me must know how to work Me’s show. And work it hard. All the while being soft, inviting and sirenly on the outside… 😉

    Me knows this is WAR and Me is prioritizing for it. Me is building a warroom and Me is girding up for battle!

    Me will feel much better winning. Me is not messing around. Me plans to win.

    But if Me should step off the train empty-handed, Me will still have a full, rich and happy life.

    The End.


  264.  #264Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 7:49 am


    Some “just in case” words sprang to mind. Yea! These are for me in the future. I hope I don’t have to use them often.

    Saving these:

    “I like you a lot and I’m sorry that your interest in me is limited and you wouldn’t want to see me if I socialize with other people.”

    Heehee 😆


  265.  #265Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 7:53 am

    I think this is better:

    “I like you a lot and I feel sadthat your interest in me is limited and you wouldn’t want to see me if I socialize with other people.”


  266.  #266Ella on December 16, 2010 at 7:57 am

    SLV – I like it!

    Thanks. 🙂

  267.  #267Ella on December 16, 2010 at 8:05 am


    Thanks for ideas.

    I am just going to hold the space for tonight. I am going out for a drink with a friend tonight and then have plans for tomorrow so I will be kept busy.

    I will be seeing him on Saturday anyway.

    So I will wait and see what he brings up when we see each other. And just keep talking in feelings and wants / don’t wants.

  268.  #268Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 8:13 am


    Sometime ago there was discussion on blog about no girlfriend speeches. These are my thoughts, for established relationships not early dating:

    I set in my mind that if I were in love with a man and knew that I would marry him if he asked and I got a g/f “request” I would “give him a season” just by telling him let’s see how this winter works out, or this spring, summer or what ever season is beginning.

    It would not be an ultimatum, I’d quietly and without ceremony stop dating others but only for a limited time of three months or so, mainly to get a real close look at what was going on. I might think of myself as a “very good friend” and not a “girl friend.”

    Then when the season turned, if he still only wanted g/f and no ring, I would not make an announcement I’d just go back to CD because “I don’t want to put any pressure on you…”

    This is just my thinking for now… subject to change.


  269.  #269Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 8:22 am

    263: Lorelei says:
    “Somewhere in one of the programmes, there is something about giving a certain period of time or seeing how it goes with a man, and then taking a rain check…”

    Really? That sounds like my “for a season” tool. If Rori is saying something like that too I must be on to something! Please see if you can find it.


  270.  #270Ella on December 16, 2010 at 8:46 am


    I like that as a possible option.

    I have no idea at this point if this guy would be someone I would consider marrying, there is far too much about him I still don’t know.

    And I like the idea of giving him a chance.

    One thing is for certain. I will never go back to being how I used to be… hanging on a man, waiting, hoping, overfunctioning.

    This way feels far too good.

    I like the fact that he is the one pushing for committment. He is the one ‘rowing’ the boat, initiating the conversations about where the relationship is going etc…

    He now knows that my mindset is to be married.

    I feel happy to dicsuss things with him.

    I may give him a season, I may not, either way I will always continue to CD in some way shape or form, be a DIVA, a Siren, speak up when I am unhappy and not take crumbs.

    Either way my feelings will come first.

    If I do give him ‘a season’ and I do not feel as though we are heading towards marriage / committment I will walk away.

    And my life will still be great.

    This is one man who I am interested in… and I am open to him and his ideas. BUT I am more interested in ME and what I want and how I feel.

  271.  #271Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 9:07 am

    SLV @ 266

    “I like you a lot and I feel sad that your interest in me is limited and you wouldn’t want to see me if I socialize with other people.”

    Brilliant – though I would make one tweak – the central clause makes a big assumption about him. . . and puts him in his place . .

    How about just, “I like you a lot and I feel sad that you wouldn’t want to see me if I socialize with other people.”

    I’ll bear in mind trying to find the example of a no-gf speech plus the idea that a girl might include something about a time frame in the speech. But it’s a lot of material to hunt through in the week before Christmas. This may take some time . . . . .

  272.  #272Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 9:10 am


    RE: #261 – You sound wonderful! I felt like I was reading the post of a 20 or 30 year old! I had to do a double take to see that, yep, that’s Lorelei!

    Your whole vibe has shifted in your writing immensely since you first started on the blog, too! I feel so happy for you!

    I felt some of the same shift, too, when I first started really “getting” Rori’s tools, and seeing them in action in my own life! It really is empowering, in a most healthy way!

    Congratulations to us! 🙂 We are rising from the ashes, better than ever!

  273.  #273Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Ella and SLV,

    I saved this from the blog…does it help?

    Here’s a great comment from Angel Baby – so I’m jumping off…
    “I’ve been doing circular dating – and the men are definitely pouring in! I feel fun and flirty, and the men are drawn to me like a magnet. Problem is, they ALL want to keep me and I feel stupid dating them if I’m not sure I want to keep them. Each of the men I’m dating is really fun, intelligent, attractive (to me) and the chemistry is great. Now I’m down to having to get clear about what I’M really looking for. In the meantime, these guys are expressing that they’re feeling toyed with. Is that just whining on their part? I feel guilty, a little tired, and super confused! Thanks, Rori!
    Angel Baby, Welcome and BRAVA to YOU!!!
    The thing here is – what is the definition of “keep”?
    What does that mean to a man?
    What does it mean to you?
    If what you want is marriage, lifelong commitment – and you’re not sure about any of these men, and they’re not offering rings…then what is there to “keep”?
    The thing here is – this is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY for you to TALK with these men!!
    Ask them what they’re thinking about the two of you when they complain.
    Ask what they want, what they see.
    Share your feelings in total Feeling Messages about how attached and weird you can feel when you’re exclusive and hoping for a ring, and that you’ve just discovered it feels so much better to just let the man be in charge.
    In other words, exclusivity isn’t your goal here . A “boyfriend” isn’t your goal – marriage is!!!
    As long as you’re not having sex with anyone – or at least with just one man…you can stay sane here. And if you are having sex – you’re just going to have to be supremely even MORE Rock Star Diva!
    You do this by totally TELLING THE TRUTH at ALL TIMES to ALL MEN.
    You do this by focusing on yourself so you are as much in touch with how you feel every single moment – so that you’re responding and soft and open and spontaneous…and AWARE of your impulses and words – as you can possibly be.
    Love, Rori
    you want to take some time, i get that, that’s fine, but you can’t have me all to yourself. i have been getting invitations for dates and i am going to start accepting them. being honest feels really important to me so i just want to be clear that i feel really good spending time with you btu i don’t feel comfortable being exclusive to you without a solid commitment, and i don’t want to put pressure on you….what do you think?”
    This is how Circular Dating clears up your love
    life – it teaches you skills you never knew you
    had, it makes you feel beautiful and magnetic
    (which you’ve always been) and it creates a whole
    new relationship for you with EVERY man you meet!
    And one of three things will happen – either your
    man will step up and you’ll walk together to your
    Happy Ever After, or he won’t step up and another,
    BETTER man WILL, or he’ll step up and you won’t
    WANT him any more because you’ve met a better man.
    No matter what happens – you WIN!
    You GET your Mr. Right, you GET your Happy Ever
    Learn exactly how to Circular Date – and DO it.

  274.  #274Turtle Girl on December 16, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Ella #57

    I don’t like Christian Carter for the exact same reason. He has a vibe that comes through like he wants us to be afraid we will never find our man because of something we are doing wrong, so we better buy his products. It is really icky.

    He has a few things that I find interesting as far as how men think, etc, but mostly I don’t care for him. I don’t like anyone who is a fear monger.

  275.  #275Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Returning to some of my earlier themes on this thread – around the idea that I have no idea how or whether I would ever risk having sex outside of a decent commitment. . . because it really confuses my emotions, and gets me hooked into feelings of intimacy and connnection more and more . . .

    It’s on my mind because with this new CD-ing thing, and actual live dating thing, I feel very turned on , in general terms . . bit like when I was much younger.

    It feels like a kind of turned-on-ness that is not specific to a particular man, but could be about several men (certainly not all men – with some of the dates, I felt a bit repulsed). But the two dates last week, well, there was a certain amount of sexual tension, an enjoyment of being in each other’s personal space. This felt more pronounced with ZenMan than WaveMan, but was there with both. (BTW, both have been in touch since the dates, WM every day, by text or phone, and ZM by email.)

    I feel very strange writing this on a blog (thank goodness it’s anonymous) but . . even though I know that sex is almost too bonding for me, at an early stage in getting to know someone . . I really yearn for sex, with a man (!). I would almost risk emotional bonding just to have sex.

    But . . .then where would I be? What I really feel is sad, because wanting sex isn’t just wanting sex. It’s wanting the whole package – love, intimacy, listening, talking, feeling accepted, loved . .

  276.  #276Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 9:31 am

    @271: Ella says:
    “…I like the fact that he is the one pushing for committment….”

    I haven’t worked out what “commitment” is. I’ve been asking around; so far the answers seem to be rather nebulous…


  277.  #277Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 9:39 am

    “If I do give him ‘a season’ and I do not feel as though we are heading towards marriage / committment I will walk away.”

    That soon. I don’t think I’d be ready to marry someone if I’d known them for less than six months! I don’t think I’d even offer “a season” until some time after six months, maybe 9 months, a year…something like that…depends.

    I wouldn’t toss a guy after four or five months. Would you want a proposal after four or five months? Seems kind of soon…


  278.  #278Rachel on December 16, 2010 at 9:44 am


    I had this very same feeling yesterday. I had a simple coffee date and really felt an inner stirring … wondering what it would feel like to be held by this man, to be kissed, etc. And feeling sad that it might not happen with him. It MIGHT! But it’s way too soon to tell…

    and I do want to feel that again. The whole package as you say. I feel it a lot lately. I hope it’s a sign that the right man is drawing near!

  279.  #279Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 9:47 am

    @272: Lorelei says:
    “SLV @ 266
    ..I would make one tweak – the central clause makes a big assumption about him. . . and puts him in his place . .
    How about just, “I like you a lot and I feel sad that you wouldn’t want to see me if I socialize with other people.”

    Thanks, Lorelei.

    You are right. This is much better. Simpler, sweeter and more powerful. It’s perfect. What do you think? These words are going into my “messages” file!


  280.  #280Cherie on December 16, 2010 at 9:52 am

    I feel powerless and lost. I am trying to learn, but my natural instincts take me over. I was doing well I think for a while and he was saying he loved having time with me and I was a “breath of fresh air”. But I started to feel angry that he continues to keep looking and going on the dating site chatting to other women. And I can feel myself behaving in those old ways when I’m with him, being defensive, closing up, then reacting then trying to fix that. But I stopped trusting my new ways, I was thinking its not making any difference. Now I can see it was, but I was impatient. But there is something really bothering me.

    Before he always came to me, to my house. And I liked how he was always affectionate, when he came to my door and he always hugged me warmly and gave me a kiss. We would go for a walk or make dinner or go get food and he always held my hand or put his arm around me.

    Now he wants me to go to his place more. Sometimes he picks me up and sometimes I get public transport half way and he picks me up from there. He doesn’t always kiss me straight away. And his touches are less. When we are at his place, his female flatmate is there. When she’s not around, he says negative things about her which I realise now is unusual for him … about how fussy she is about what she eats, and things like that. But I’ve noticed he has never been affectionate to me in front of her! I sit on the couch or the floor wondering why David doesn’t touch me. I washed up after dinner and asked him to give me a hug … he came over and just grabbed at me then laughed and went back to talking to her. Sometimes he slaps me on the butt … he never does that anywhere else. She and him keep chatting and I feel like a third wheel! She never leaves until late to give us privacy. Then he moves in and is soft and gentle to me again.

    I have been out with him with his friends before and he was very attentive to me! They are girls too. But he didn’t mind being affectionate and sweet to me then.

    I feel he is making out to the flatmate that I don’t mean anything to him and that hurts. I am not sure if he is attracted to her, he doesn’t seem to be. But I feel she may be attracted to him.

    What can I say here to him. Just now I felt like sending an email! A stupid 4 am I have woken up and need to tell you what I think email.

    I want to have him coming to me again. I feel now like I am going to him.

    There are so many things wrong really, he is all caught up with his ex-wife and “house stuff” I can’t explain, but often keeps him busy all weekend. He is going away over Xmas with ex and kids to Fiji. He asked me to go away with him after, but now says kids may be coming too … when I thought they didn’t really know about me yet except that I’m a friend.

    But I’m not ready to let him go. I am trying to CD, but have not been doing well. I do have a date this weekend .. a picnic with a frenchman (sounds so cute doesn’t it). But I’m feeling sad and lost.

  281.  #281Femininewoman on December 16, 2010 at 9:55 am

    After a 10 day trip and a two month silence I just got a text inviting me to the December 24 office Christmas Party. I feel shocked to say the least and wanted to say that back in the text that came 1 hr ago. “I feel shocked. Thanks”. I was about to send it but thought he might think I was wanting to hear from him, and ask why I am shocked. This is the first time being invited to the party and he normally disappears over the holidays. Can anyone help me on this? Should I say I am shocked? What if he asks why? Do I tell him I was not expecting the invite and that I thought he was still away? Is that game playing?

  282.  #282Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 9:56 am

    @273: Brenda says:
    RE: #261 – You sound wonderful! I felt like I was reading the post of a 20 or 30 year old! I had to do a double take to see that, yep, that’s Lorelei! ”

    I got a little weird jolt reading that. Do you really think “wonderfulness” is the realm of 20 or 30 year olds? Really…? Do you think your days of “wonderful” are over? Mine sure aren’t! 😆 very far from it and I’m older than you.


  283.  #283Hadassah on December 16, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Wow I feel like I have been out of the loop for a while!

    Rosa – so sorry you had to go through all of this especially at this time with G-Man. I am glad that you sound SO strong and set on your happy path and are sure-footed about being without him!

    Ella – love how your “no gf” speech went. I totally get what you mean about being afraid he will run away, but you are still doing what you need to do for you and that is just AWESOME.

    My ex came by a few weeks ago and I got my key back and had the most BORING night of my life sitting there listening to him rattle off what had been going on in his life. It totally showed me I made the right decision in ending it with him.

    So hadn’t heard from him at all up until Sunday of this week. He calls me to ask if he can come by after he gets back in town from a hike. I tell him no. He gets all mad at me saying he “thought I would be over our issues by now.” Wow, this guy totally has no respect for me or my feelings or beliefs! Instead of fighting it out with him or explaining myself or defending myself, I simply told him that he is more than welcome to call and ask me out, but that I am not going to have any more him coming over to hang out type of things going on, and I wished him well and that was pretty much that. He just got more and more angry that I stayed calm. He must have really thought I would just take him back after a break!

    I have been dating a man, the lovely 40 year old, since then. I have maintained my online profiles and have given out my # when asked for it, I reply to emails and whatnot, but I really don’t feel all that into these other men. None of them are stepping up to ask me out or even calling – they just want to text.

    Mr. 40 year old however, steps up big time and has been. He takes me out regularly, has brought me small gifts every time we get together, calls when he says he is going to, does what he says he is going to, and communicates very well. Like I said before, I already had to give the no gf speech because he was so wanting me to just jump right into that and I am so not going there.

    He isn’t pressuring me for anything. I flat out told him that I am at the point in my life where I no longer feel comfortable having sex outside of a committed relationship, so I can’t even seriously consider taking physical intimacy that far until I am engaged. I know my emotional state just can’t take it anymore. And he doesn’t mind. He thinks that is admirable of me and also said not to worry about him proposing any time soon just so we can take that step.

    He says all of the right things and almost seems too good to be true; I hear my NV popping up that I am not good enough for this, that I don’t deserve this, that he is lying to me or is trying to manipulate me like the others did, and I just have to stop, take a step back, and get myself in check. He has done nothing so far to make me feel this way – it’s all my issues coming out to play. And thanks to this blog and the ebook, I realize that.

    So far he seems like he is the man I have been wishing for, right down to the fact that he has no children of his own but wants a family and would accept my daughter as his own and would even adopt her if we got married.

    I feel SO good when I am with him and talking to him. It is just so different than any other relationship I have ever had, and it scares the crap out of me. But I am taking baby steps to deal with it so I don’t bail unless I know it isn’t what I want.

    He is a very intense and passionate person with everything he cares about, and that is such an overwhelming change from the last few men I have been in relationships with that it is a lot to get used to. But I like it!

    I have tomorrow off of work, and he is taking me out to lunch, we are going to see a movie, and then he is taking me out to finish Christmas shopping for my baby girl. Later on, we are going out to dinner with his sister and her husband and another mutual friend of theirs’.

    I am really excited about the fact that he wants me to meet his friends and family and isn’t trying to keep me a secret from the people that are closest to him like my ex was. I’m not trying to cross of “met the family” off of some list, but it is nice to not feel as though he is embarrassed to be seen with me!

    I know I would go out on a date with another man if I was asked to, and that is really keeping my head on straight about this. I just hope that my CD-ing doesn’t somehow push him into proposing to me too soon just so he can have me all to himself. He keeps asking me if in my opinion, dating for 6 months would be too soon to become engaged. I told him it depends on the situation! It is SO funny to me because usually you hear about women trying to drag a man down the aisle. This is the first time in my life I feel like I need to get the guy to hold back a bit! It’s just exciting!

  284.  #284Meemee on December 16, 2010 at 9:58 am

    RE 255
    I felt the same. X is very similar to Gman

  285.  #285Meemee on December 16, 2010 at 10:00 am

    I feel better today. I was feeling ill and pukish all through the day.
    Dragged myself to office. Worked. Now I am feeling better.
    Thanks for all your comments and support

  286.  #286Cherie on December 16, 2010 at 10:01 am


    Its been three months. He still chats on the dating site. He still wants to meet someone else. I am seeing him on Monday as he is working on the garden to finish it all weekend .. this is a project before selling the house … which means he will be with his ex-wife and kids all weekend, which is very usual for him. I often think he ties up weekends so he has opportunity to go meet other women.

    He makes plans with me, invites me to things sometimes. He planned a holiday for us just alone for a few days after his family holiday. Now he is saying his kids may come too. Which I don’t feel comfortable about.

    I feel sad a lot of the time. When I see him, afterwards I often feel very depressed for a couple of days. I just want to feel safe.

  287.  #287Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 10:07 am

    @274 Brenda

    Thanks! I need to read “What to do if he’s whining about your circular dating” a couple times. And then once or twice every morning right after I read the Rori’s “Forget Closure…’put him on your horse’ ” post.

    Yum! It’s powerful and delicious.


  288.  #288Meemee on December 16, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Today Chocolate man called me from a cake shop and asked me if he can get something for me. I said I love chocolate cake and he got me one cake and brought it to office. I felt very good.
    In the evening I met him when I was making a tea and we went to the balcony and had tea together.
    He is going through some problems in office and he told me he is planning to quit. We talked a lot. It was pleasant. We stood there in the balcony. It was getting dark. We had our tea. We smoked. The view was beautiful. The night. And the lights. and the breeze. And we talked. Then he asked me to go and sit with him in office. I said I have got some work and went to my room. He said he will come back. I had to leave before he came. So I left a message for him and left.
    Gals, I feel I am getting slightly attracted to him. But I am getting scared at the very idea of getting attracted to someone 🙁 🙁

  289.  #289Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Rachel @279

    Hi . . and yes, this inner stirring has to be good!!

    Even simple coffee dates hold this potential . .

    In the past, the delicious feelings of intimacy that sexual relating produces for me, feel like being cherished, delighted in, loved, and all too easily feel like being understood, accepted, wanted for myself . . . and to have that snatched away again in casual sex . . can’t bear it.

    I can’t unhook the feelings of relationship and commitment and connection from the actual sex bit. Even if I could, would I want to?

    And it is so confusing, this thing that chemistry doesn’t always point us to the best men. . .it’s almost as if Rori is saying that lack of chemistry, at first, might be a good thing, or a bit of a safeguard.

    But for now, let’s ENJOY the little bits of chemistry and attraction, and the excitement of that.

    I’m working on loving all my newly emerging feelings, accepting them for what they are. I don’t want to see them as a problem. And as evidence that I’m still alive. And still able to feel attraction and the wonderment of it all.

  290.  #290Meemee on December 16, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Also I am not even sure if he likes me or if he is talking to me just because he is having bad a time and I am a good listener 🙁

  291.  #291Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Brenda @ 274

    Thanks for posting “What to do if he’s whining about your circular dating.”

    Rori mentions two possibilities – only having sex with one of them, or not having sex with any of them.

    To me, it feels as if the no sex with any would be easier to manage . . at least until things move to talking about commitments, rings, dates etc.

  292.  #292Cherie on December 16, 2010 at 10:16 am


    I want to CD. But I can’t help getting attached to one man. I mean how do you do it? When you spend time with one man and have those feelings like you just want him. How do you change that? Its hard to go and date someone else. Even though I know he does it. I feel like he is circular dating. I’m tired I think and almost feel I don’t want to try with men at all. That its too hard. Its Christmas and I said shall we give each other a little gift. He said ok but $20 maximum. I’ve been seeing this man and sleeping with him for 3 months. I need to step back and CD and I can’t my fears keep me behaving the old way.

  293.  #293Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 10:23 am

    @282: Femininewoman says:
    “This is the first time being invited to the party and he normally disappears over the holidays.”

    Well, then if that’s the situation, I wouldn’t have any problem at all telling people at the party that we were “just friends” and “not a couple.”

    And I would go to the holiday party unless I was overbooked. Holiday parties are a great time to get sparkled up and look fabulous and meet other people. If nothing else, have some fun and practice flirting. Yes, flirt, as long as it’s not outrageous and disrespectful, that’s what I’d do.

    Happy holidays,

  294.  #294Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Brenda @ 273

    HI again – sorry missed this one earlier. Thank you! I can hardly believe me either! So much has changed for me. Finding Rori, and Siren Island, was literally part of what saved my (emotional, psychological, spiritual) life and helped me see that at the end of my marriage, there might be the possibility of a new life and, eventually, a new relationship.

    Yay us!
    Yay all of us on here!

    We are phoenixes! Phoenixi?! Well, definitely Phoenixes.

    Changing the image all together, I feel fantastic and optimistic much of the time, though also dealing with sadness, grief and marriage fall-out sometimes.

    It feels very sweet, but bittersweet.

  295.  #295Lakshmi on December 16, 2010 at 10:35 am


    I just want to thank you all for sharing so much here. I’ve posted a couple of times, but mostly I just come to read. It feels good to come here and learn, and see sirens supporting each other (and sometimes triggering each other!).

    Dorothea, I was wondering if you could share some of the dietary changes you’ve made recently. I have never been diagnosed with PCOS, but I have some symptoms. And I still have problem skin.


  296.  #296Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Rosa – more on “bittersweetness.”

    Can’t find your post that I meant to reply to with this, but . . There is an idea, a visual image – I believe it is quite well known.

    It must be from an Eastern system of thought. It is the image of the lotus flower, which only grows with it’s roots in the mud. Some say, the lotus only grows with its roots in the sh*t. Same idea. The muddy stuff nourishes and connects with beautiful new life. Can’t have one without the other.

    I feel it really helps me hold the joy and new life, new hope, new libido and new optimism in balance, or in tension, with the pain, sadness, grief and feelings of being adrift.

  297.  #297AmberS on December 16, 2010 at 10:42 am



    I’ll be able to get caught up later tonight at home. I have the big boss here and he’s needy today.

    I just read your ME post and I LOVED IT.
    Woohooooo! It made me want to get up and dance.

    And did I see a mention of a clue or two in other posts!?! GRIN

    SO looking forwards to catching up 🙂

    PS- Hello everyone- Consider this fair warning- I will spam the blog later. There will be posts, and questions and most likely profanity.

    PSS- LUCY- How are you doing now? You’ve been on my mind a lot. IDK if all kids are now home?

    I was wondering if it would be easier on you if you focused on just the time you get to spend with them and ignored the impending holiday. Yes, Amber- trying to be a fixer again, but I feel sad knowing that you are having a hard time and I wish I had something other than {{HUGS}} to offer.

    PSSS- Daria- your forgiveness posts are rocking my mental state. Making progress with this- THANK YOU

    PSSSS- Hello Brenda- I love you!

  298.  #298Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Meemee @291

    This sounds like a nice change from X!

    But how do you feel, doing all the listening . .?

    How about . .
    I’m feeling like the listener in this conversation . .

    I’m feeling a bit left out in this conversation . .

    I’m feeling unheard here . . .

    Or, I’m enjoying spending time with you, but I’m feeling a bit left out at this point in time. . .

  299.  #299Femininewoman on December 16, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Re 294 Thanks SLV

  300.  #300SG on December 16, 2010 at 11:19 am

    My now ex-fiance broke up with me …AGAIN (he did that *every* time we had an argument) walking out on me saying that it was all too much for him.

    Typically, after a few days he would come knocking at my doorstep, apologizing and asking me to take him back as he still loved me and didn’t want to lose me! Every time, I would tell him that it was taking too much of a toll on me for him to “run” every time he lost it! This last time however, after he broke up with me AGAIN, he contacted me after a few days this time by sending me several e-mails, blaming me for everything and for why he walked out on me but that he still loved me, wanted me but that I had to work on myself!!!!!!

    Having had enough of it all from him, I wrote back to him saying that I was tired of his blaming of me for everything that goes wrong in the relationship and also when I tried to help him and the relationship, he keeps going back to his…. “safe dumbass little boy behaviours that hurt me and make me feel like I am going backwards. NO MORE – I do not like the dynamic of what I’ve seen and it’s not what I want. Please leave me alone.”

    I received a reply back from him almost immediately saying that my wish had been granted!

    I called him a week later talking to him in feeling messages and letting him know that I’d be willing to work at things again if he was willing to change his behaviours that caused huge triggers for me. He told me that he had absolutely no interest whatsoever. He told me to move on in my life and not to look back because he would be doing just that! He told me he knew these may sound hurtful but that he meant them and wanted me gone. He also told to work on myself and not date anyone for at least a year! I told him it hurt for me to hear those words but that I could and would move on. I told him that I had a date with a guy that night and said goodbye.

    It’s now been a month since we last contacted each other and I have not heard from him. I have since put up a profile on a couple of dating sites and have been circular dating although I haven’t found anyone I share any spark with.

    I guess I still feel very unresolved and hurt by what has happened between us including the very last incident and have stayed in a constant state of this headspace for the past month. I’m forcing myself to detach myself from rehashing the fond memories with him (we were together for nearly 22 months), going out and having fun on my dates, but it doesn’t seem to be working for me as I’m still experiencing HUGE issues, ie uncontrollable and sudden crying bouts (2-3 times a day) at work and at home, still obsessing about all the times spent together, all the nice things he did for me (there were lots), our shared and common goals and hopes for our new family together as well as wondering what he has been doing since we broke up! I feel unresolved and a HUGE lack of closure….the thought of not seeing him ever again REALLY upsets me and I just don’t know how to get over it and STOP thinking about it OVER and OVER AGAIN! I feel like I’m going crazy and for the life of me can’t seem to focus on anything else in my life including work and my friends. This upsets me even more as I feel I’m not being strong enough to let go and move on!

    Fyi, I bought your Modern Siren Program and have listened to all the cds. It has been tremendously enlightening for me but I seem to somehow be stuck.

    Your words of advice would be so greatly appreciated right about now. Please help!

  301.  #301Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 11:24 am

    @287: Cherie says:
    “Its been three months. He still chats on the dating site. He still wants to meet someone else.
    …I feel sad a lot of the time. When I see him, afterwards I often feel very depressed for a couple of days. I just want to feel safe.”

    Hi Cherie:
    I am sorry if you have been feeling sad. Sometimes I’ve feel sad too and obsessive. I’m usually happy, and excited about life but occasionally I’ve been sad and crying and joyously happy all on the same day.

    If a guy is giving me the sad part of the day and I’m giving myself the happy part of the day that tells me I don’t need to be around him or even talk to him or read messages from him.

    So I don’t. I hope you will stop too. I think you will be happier then and feel safer too.

    This is a great time of the year to keep myself happy. I go to most of the holiday parties to which I am invited; I might meet someone new, but if not I will have fun and maybe see friends I haven’t seen in a while. And if the party is really boring I can make an excuse — at this time of the year family is good one 😆 and leave.

    Besides the holiday parties these are some of the things I am doing. They are just little simple things but they keep me happy.

    –Going to the holiday movies with girlfriends.
    –Going to community events, holiday pageants, community carol singing
    –Getting a manicure and a haircut.
    –Buying some new makeup or at least a new lipstick or bath salts.
    –Christmas shopping including buying myself a couple of gifts, wrapping them and putting them under tree. I ALWAYS do this. heehee 😆
    –Always have holiday music on when at home, CDs from library (but my DDIL uses an online site, I think it’s Pandora?)
    –Drawing, making some design sketches, and I have two easy knit projects: a Harry Potter scarf and a cabled headband
    –Going to coffee shops in or near my neighborhood to scout out the best ones for CD.
    –Walking around the city as if I had a sweetheart with me and enjoying the lights and decorations. I have an active imagination.

    I haven’t done this yet but I think I’m going to: going to big bookstore like Barnes & Noble and getting pretty new photo calendar for 2011. Plan to mark off a year from and put some silly sticker (my grandchildren have oodles of these) on a day in December 2011. Or maybe I will draw a picture of vampire… 😆

    Silly sticker represents the “silly man” so I can let him sit there until next year… 😆 and get on with my life for 2011. I won’t even have to look at him because he will be on the last page.

    I think by the time December 2011 rolls around I will have different thoughts about him. I love doing all those little symbol things… heehee and ho ho ho. 😀

    Happy holidays.

  302.  #302Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 11:35 am

    290: Lorelei says:
    “…And it is so confusing, this thing that chemistry doesn’t always point us to the best men….”


    OTOH, I’ve had some very sweet sexy happy feeling safe relationships with men I never wanted to marry…ever… 😆

    What can I say…

    Dunno, but after my long hiatus, I think I am in another place and I want to go for the gold…if there’s any left… 😳


  303.  #303Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 11:40 am

    @291: Meemee says:
    “Also I am not even sure if he likes me or if he is talking to me just because he is having bad a time and I am a good listener. Meemee”

    I think you don’t have to worry about what he is thinking. How about you consider first what you are thinking. Do you enjoy talking with him? From where I sit reading your posts, it seems you do. That’s OK then.

    Men do what they want to do; see what else he offers…


  304.  #304Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm


    RE: #283 – I feel frustrated. I don’t like splitting hairs.

    I was merely expressing how I felt a kinship with Lorelei in learning new dating skills.

    And, traditionally, dating skills are learned early in life. We are learning them later in life. It’s beautiful that we get a fresh start.

  305.  #305Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 12:41 pm


    RE: #298 – What’s going on? Let loose on us to vent your frustrations, questions, and profanity! 🙂

    I love you, too!

  306.  #306Lucy on December 16, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Lorelei, I can really relate to what you wrote here:

    “I really yearn for sex, with a man (!). I would almost risk emotional bonding just to have sex. But . . .then where would I be? What I really feel is sad, because wanting sex isn’t just wanting sex. It’s wanting the whole package – love, intimacy, listening, talking, feeling accepted, loved . .”

    I appreciate how you worded that — this is the part that we really cannot give/do for ourselves — i.e., in order to have sex — and the whole package — with a MAN, we have to have a man. (Reporting the obvious, as my German teacher used to say.)

    I feel the same way.


  307.  #307Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 12:57 pm


    RE: #301 – I feel your pain, because I have been working through that same pain of loss for over a year now, with much progress, I’m thankful to say!

    There are no cheap solutions, sadly. Some things really do just take time. I gave myself generous time to mourn, letting myself go inside myself and feel the pain, to process it.

    The comfort of friends and pets helps. Walks in nature help. Journalling helps, which you can do privately or here. I chose to journal here, and I felt so supported by all the Sirens and Heroes who gave of their hearts to me. Sometimes it helps to write him a letter, which is probably better not to mail.

    Sending thoughts, hugs, and prayers your way…

  308.  #308Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Lucy and Lorelei,

    I feel the same way, too.

  309.  #309Rori Raye on December 16, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Brenda – and all – I simply LOVE the idea of you using this blog as a “journal” – it’s a brilliant idea – a community journaling together. We can each serve the energy and be served by the energy in ways we can’t do alone….Thank you, Love, Rori

  310.  #310Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Lucy @ 307 and Brenda @ 309

    And we will get there . . . to the whole bundle of intimacy that includes heart connection and being cherished, and great sex . . .


  311.  #311Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 1:36 pm


    Thank you! I got that concept about journaling from Daria, who calls your blog her floating journal.

  312.  #312Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    @298: AmberS says:

    “And did I see a mention of a clue or two in other posts!?! GRIN…”

    Er, uh, no. No “clues.” Nothing cryptic going on. Did you think I am a celebrity in disguise or something? 😆

    Now I am curious. What is the mystery? What clues have you found?

    I will probably be back later. I decided to make the “calendar tool” my mission on next CD-me date which is scheduled for tomorrow because today is a housekeeping day but… I don’t want to do chores I want to go out and do calendar now. jajajaja 😆

    I hope you will not be fighting tonight, will you? Oh, I guess you can if you want…

    Here’s a question, I think you said you were a little “geeky” do you have a back up routine using offsite, such as Mozy?


  313.  #313Lizzie on December 16, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    SG, it is so difficult to work through pain and I can say from my own experience, it takes time and the time must be taken. What helped me, caught my by surprise, it was writing poetry. Journaling is also good and I did that just to be able to sleep at night. I found writing at midnight made it possible to sleep.

  314.  #314Ella on December 16, 2010 at 1:49 pm


    I have absolutely NO idea what real committment is… for me I guess it is a feeling, something I can feel and also something I feel from a man when I know his heart is committed to me.

    Rori tends to say it is a ring and there are others on here who have other definitions.

    I guess it is unique for each of us.

    And I have no idea if I would agree to marry someone after a few months… the old me would have said a very definite NO.

    The new me just follows my feelings and trusts my boundaries.

    Ideally I want a ring!

  315.  #315Turtle Girl on December 16, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Hmmmm… commitment……

    I see real commitment and real love as a feeling, but also a choice. When things are bad or difficult, we don’t run at the first sign of trouble.

    We chose to stay committed and we chose to love. The feeling of that chemical high only lasts for a few months to 3 years-then what? We must make a choice on what to do. Hopefully we really like, love and have fond feelings for our mate.

    After all I am totally “committed” to my daughter, regardless of how she has acted in the past. Different relationship of course, but still, I did not dump her when things got back. I chose to love her and have a relationship anyway.

    I am committed to my dogs even when they pee one he rug when they are old. I don’t just get rid of them.

    Love and commitment are actions, not just feelings.


  316.  #316Turtle Girl on December 16, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Yeah I need more than a few months-a year at least-because I want to observe my man’s actions and see how he is in the real world. A few months is not enough time, in fact it has been my experience the real guy doesn’t show up for about five months give or take….so that’s when the mask comes off and stuff happens. If you can go a year, then it seems more solid and having a chance of making it for the long haul.

    My parents knew each other two weeks and stayed married 23 years, but I would not recommend getting married after a two week fling. It was a different world then, WWII and well, a very different world.

  317.  #317Turtle Girl on December 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    So which has the possibility of lasting longer in love-passion or dedication. I will take dedication. xxxooo

  318.  #318Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Feeling good… Head feeling fuzzy and comfy warm

    That nite Friday I drank a lot of beer and walked back hone for an hour and a half dehydrated on my heels…

    Knocked loose sone old feelings of pain Ie bacteria in my bladder pribly like vigorous sex etc

    I’m Gina Use this! Yo take the herbs that helped me last time and so heal even More of my bladder now. Yay.

    I have paper picking up trips today, train and then rides

  319.  #319Ella on December 16, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    SG I went through a really painful breakup just a short while ago (well 8 months ago).

    For the first 2 months I was really in denial and refused to work through my feelings instead strategising and obsessing about how to ‘get him back’ but then he got with someone else and that was the shock I needed to finally start working on myself.

    I left my job due to stress and I moved to be back close to my family.

    Then I found Rori and began learning how to work with my feelings. Only then did the healing actually begin.

    What I am trying to say, in a very long, round about way, is to focus on yourself and try to stay with your feelings and work through them gently so you can heal…

    Focus on yourself and don’t try to pretend like I did.

    Hugs to you.

  320.  #320Mercedes on December 16, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Luzydel: You said:

    “I am a brainiac, I like to talk about Science, Art, Psychology, and nonsense useless information, but then finish things with great hot sex all night… I want both things in a relationship the passion, the wild crazy sex and the never ending conversation…I am greedy”

    I smiled soooo much! That’s exactly the way I am!! I had no brainiac connection with my exhusband…we couldn’t talk about anything at all because he didn’t “get” me. J gives me what you’re talking about above…all of it and more…so if you need some inspiration that those men are out there, look no further than us. 🙂

    Much Love,

  321.  #321Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Sex sex sex!

    I dreamed last nite I signed up w the sex goddess as a model and the first thing I did to was got carried away by the setup and feeling stuff moving fast and wound up

    Making an Anal Sex Porno with several men!


    At first I was pleased that I was so open

    And them the fears came back big time

    And I was like Noooo I don’t want my patents to see it and I stressed about that the rest of the dream even tho we were in magnificent beach front scenery

    So I woke up and I was hella relieved not to have made it

  322.  #322Ella on December 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm


    I am not feeling very good.

    I am so fed up of my cold and feel really unglamorous.

    I also feel ‘antsy’.

    My mum’s boyfriend drinks at the pub where Mr Barman works and he came back tonight speaking about the new Bar Girl who Mr Barman is working with tonight. Apparently she looks like another girl we know who is SERIOUSLY STUNNING!!!!

    And now I feel really insecure! 🙁

    Oh dear I feel like a complete idiot for feeling insecure so easily but I do!

    It just goes to show that I do not feel much trust…

    And funny… me feeling jealous when he is the one asking to be with me!! What!

    And I feel pressure to decide something… feels like pressure not to be with Mr Barman and pressure to be with him.

    Ick, I don’t like it, just want to feel happy / ok!

    Feeling like panicky – ICK!

    Like butterflies in my stomach.

    And feel like people are judging me cus they do not think I am doing things right.

    And scared that I can’t trust myself to make a good decision.


    Don’t want this stress feeeling.

  323.  #323Daria on December 16, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Ella – I felt a lil cringe when u told barman in a text I just dint want to be a gf again.

    It seemed like bringing that up belays insecurity anxiety
    Without flat out saying it.

    I would no longer bring up the word girlfriend. I don’t use it.

    Instead if he asked me like.,, so what did u decide.,,

    I’d stay w my feelings – questions don’t have to be answered –
    and say.,, this is feeling bad to me.,, I’m feeling weird and not gotten.., I really want to feel close to you and understood and cared for

    Him: yeah but u want to date others

    Me: this conversation is feeling bad… I don’t want to discuss this anymore…

    I really like u and it would feel lovely to see if u will be my husband… But until something serious like a proposal comes up I won’t know if ur him

  324.  #324Cherie on December 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm


    I feel better. I have been listening to my Siren CD’s … which came the other day. I am climbing out of my cage and looking out over the meadow and ready to fly. I am going to go find Jonathan Livingston Seagull and read it.

    I am letting go of this anxiety. I feel good about going to yoga class this morning and shopping for my daughters for Christmas. I feel excited I am going on a picnic at the beach tomorrow with the french man who I have not met yet. I cancelled a date with him two weeks ago to see this one guy I have let myself get hooked on. And french man has come back and offered me a special day and I know it is a lot for first date, but I will keep it short as possible.

    Like you I love to draw, I am an art teacher for Christ’s sake! But I have not been drawing for a long time. I have bought myself some new pencils and some for my daughter two. They are amazing Derwent Ink colours, add water and more intense than watercolour pencils. I feel excited about drawing with my new pencils.

    I am feeling energised and sensual and sexy and goddessy … and I don’t know what happened??? I was listening to the CD, almost like a meditation as I have put it on my Ipod.

    I am excited about going away to the retreat with him after Christmas. I want to go because it is a beautiful place and if he brings his daughters well that gives me even more opportunity to enjoy those surroundings for myself!! Let him take me, I am not saying no. I have been having this argument with myself, I want to go but feel upset with him. But not going is punishing me, I will go and let him give me this gift but I will not let myself feel obligated for that.

  325.  #325Ella on December 16, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I feel under pressure to make a decision, and as though if I don’t choose him then I will lose… like he will go off with someone else, and that is not how I want to feel.

    I want to feel trust / not pressure.

    And I feel worried that people will judge and say ‘well he was with someone when you met him’ … and judge him…

    and maybe that is where that lack of trust is coming from with me…

    This feels icky.

    I think I will talk to him about how I feel!

  326.  #326AmberS on December 16, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    The Nikita Show,

    Are you still drinking matte instead of coffee? I’m considering making the switch from Red Bull…

    I *barely* see you here anymore? I hope everything is going SWELL 🙂

    My daughter & I were talking about you this morning. Something big sha shifted astrologically in the past few days. So naturally we thought of you. GRIN

  327.  #327Ella on December 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Hmmm, there is some work for me here…

    a part of me I don’t like / accept!

    Jealous me!!!!

    Yes I am jealous sometimes!

    I have always hated/stuffed down that part of me… like ewww, I am not ‘one of those’ jealous, clingy women.

    I am very judgemental of THOSE kind of women.
    So there we are… I am very judgemental of that part of me!

    It is time to love that part of me too… the jealous part of me!

    It is not so bad. Quite cute really! It is that lil girl part of me that is frightened of not getting attention.

    It is the ‘drama’ queen, woman part of me that makes me want to stamp my feet and ‘demand’ attention from a man!

    It is the one who wants to ‘stake a claim’ on my man.

    She too is looking out for me… in her jealous, mean streak way! But that is ok… I accept her too. She is lovely and I accept her as part of me!

    I will choose to be secure where I can and express that part of me when I need to.

  328.  #328Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    “RE: #283 – I feel frustrated. I don’t like splitting hairs.”

    I’m triggered when I read those kind of left handed compliments.

    I believe Lorelei is wonderful as the person that she is. Coincidentally, I perceive her as much more sophisticated than most 20 year olds.

    Lone Plum has already addressed what you said to Ryan. It see it as the same way of thinking although I do not believe you meant any harm. And many people would not mind if someone told them they were wonderful, the wonderfulness being predicated on their being something other what they are.

    I’ve heard so much of this that my ears always perk up when I hear it, read it or even sense it in the air.

    Things like: you’re wonderful I could almost pretend you were someone other than yourself. And most people that say these things think they are being kind.

    Uh, yeah, thanks… 😀

    But you are right, it’s not a big, big thing. Especially when you are not on the receiving end.

    One day I’ll tell you the story of the Afrikaner woman and the little Black boy.


  329.  #329Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 4:05 pm


    It wasn’t a left handed compliment! I was referring to the joy of learning dating skills. Most women learn them in their teens or twenties.

    I just feel weary of every word I say being decimated when I didn’t say or mean anything wrong. It has become a trigger here, usually not from you.

    Sometimes I don’t even feel like posting here because I anticipate being sweated for every word I say and just don’t have the emotional energy to deal with the fall-out.

    I maintain that I didn’t say or mean anything wrong.

  330.  #330Daria on December 16, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I myself feel offended that someone would perceive somebody as more sophisticated than most 20 year olds.

    I don’t like vein categorized or made less than in that way either.

  331.  #331Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Would it make everyone feel better if I apologized to Lorelei for noticing how much happier and transformed she seemed from the first time she started posting here?

    Or perhaps I should remind everyone how most normal people, like me, spend their teens and twenties hidden in fields and woods, then fu*ck up their lives, then learn how to date in their 40s and 50s?

  332.  #332Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    I’m up late tonight . . . and arrrgh, this feels terrible. I just took Brenda’s comment as a nice one to me, personally – thank you again Brenda – and a joyful affirmation of how much I have learnt and grown and become already through the gift and blessing of Rori’s tools.

    I didn’t hear it as any particular comment about the relative energy or sophistication of Sirens of different ages. SLV – I don’t know if you read my first posts earlier this year – perhaps it was before you joined in here – you would know what a desperately low ebb I was at then, and terrified of taking action to save myself.

    All I heard Brenda saying was that my vibe has more energy now. And it has. And it felt great to hear it.

    Love you all.

  333.  #333Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    missed a bit – if you had had the chance to read my earlier posts . .

  334.  #334Lorelei on December 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    And I would like also to say that I believe I benefit from the wisdom, and energy, and insight of Sirens from their teens to their 90’s. Chronological age seems irrelevant in this thing we are trying to do together.

    I feel glad that I checked in just before I go to bed. And wish y’all good night. xxx

  335.  #335Ella on December 16, 2010 at 4:56 pm


    I also though Lorelei was younger from her posts. Which is because her posts seem vibrant and youthful which I think is a good thing.

    And that is no disrespect to posters who are older…

  336.  #336Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Just spoke to Mr Barman on phone.

    I told him I was feeling horrible, pressured AND jealous!!

    And he made it feel all better! Sweet.

    And he did not try to pressure me for an answer on the whole ‘relationship’ issue, which felt great.

    So I am feeling a lot calmer.

    Did some work before he called too, collapsing into my feeling on the floor, writing on here and then re-focusing.

    I did notice me being a lil’, tiny touch lean forward on the phone though… when we were talking about our date on Sat night I asked him what we were going to do (the inncocent question) and I felt a tinge of disappointment when he said he hadn’t thought about it yet.

    And I realise it is because I am not trusting him to organise a fun date for us!! So I am trying to control the outcome a bit!

    That is not fair and is not giving him a chance.

    And who cares what we do anyway.

    RIGHT Miss Ella – time to do a BIG LEAN BACK!!!

    Relax, relenquish control again….

    Feel a bit ‘grabby on’ right now and I think it is all this pressure around the whole issues of last night and today.

    I want to re-focus my attention now. Back onto me… got so much stuff I want to do right now. So many things I can focus on.

    Work and getting really healthy.

    Exercising again and honing my Siren powers!!

    Yay, I feel happy!

  337.  #337Brenda on December 16, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Lorelei and Ella,

    Thank you!

  338.  #338tinque on December 16, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    “Yes I am jealous sometimes!” – Ella, I think most of us experience “jealousy”, but I prefer to look at it as fear. It really all boils down to fear of rejection or abandonment.

  339.  #339Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Ah, yes Tinque,

    Of course I see/remember now. Jealousy is connected to fear!

    I am also wanting to see it as one of those ‘dark’ parts of me that needs acceptance and love, and as with some many of the ‘dark’ parts has it’s roots in fear!

  340.  #340tinque on December 16, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Ella – There are only two emotions, love and fear; the rest are nuances of these. And sweetie it’s okay to feel fear. Even with my fabulous almost nine year dream relationship, I can still go into fear sometimes. It’s always of my own creation with no basis in what really is, but we are most of us damaged, and those scars from the past just don’t go away completely. And from time to time they rear their nasty gremlin faces. And this is okay.

    The difference is that now, the fear never overwhelms. I recognize it for what it is, and I know how to handle it within me, so it’s now a blip as opposed to the tsunami it once was.

  341.  #341Ella on December 16, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Aww, thanks Tinque,

    Feels nice to read…

    I am getting there too!


  342.  #342tinque on December 16, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Yay you Ella…

  343.  #343Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    333: Lorelei

    I’ll keep that in mind for the future.


  344.  #344Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    @325: Cherie says:
    “..,I am an art teacher for Christ’s sake! But I have not been drawing for a long time. I have bought myself some new pencils and some for my daughter two. They are amazing Derwent Ink colours, add water and more intense than watercolour pencils. I feel excited about drawing with my new pencils…”

    An art teacher! That is so very fabulous. I was struggling along teaching myself and put things aside but unpacked some supplies a while ago and got excited again. If I had your skills I’d be over the moon!

    I’m making note of those Derwink ink colors but goal is to get skills with basic hard and soft pencils.

    You seem to be in good spirits. I hope 2011 is a good year for all of us.


  345.  #345Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Sometimes people place ideas in their minds and they get stuck there forever unexamined and never replaced. Often the ideas aren’t even original they are only what the masses were thinking at the time…


  346.  #346Senior Lady Vibe on December 16, 2010 at 7:04 pm


    Thanks, all the best to you.


  347.  #347LonePlum on December 17, 2010 at 4:58 am

    Posters here express their feelings of being sad, desperate, doubtful, wounded, scared, unsure, unsafe, trembling, useless to anybody, unloved, unable to love any more, drained, too tired to keep hoping, etc….
    Some even express their inability to work already.

    It never occurred to me the posters were older people.
    Which is a good thing because most of them are younger people.

    It never occurred to me to put an age on the posters, unless they said it themselves.
    Sometimes, details they give about their real life will take me to imagine an age group.

    But mourning or hope does not give me a single hint about their age.

    I feel protective of people who experience older people as non vibrant and non cheerful and non hopeful and non wanting to love and non wanting sex and non experimenting life.

    I feel afraid it means their own surrounding is so sad, that their family and friends grow sad along time.

    I don’t want that for them

    I want them to mentally get out of that place and to go to a place where they allow themselves to love life now and also later and forever.


  348.  #348Rosalie on December 18, 2010 at 5:16 am


    Hi dear,

    I feel for you. I have been this way. I was told that he wants to see me going!!! WTF??? Who is he to tell me where to go and what to do??? Who is to control MY life??? Is he my husband? No!!!

    SG, I hope my story can help you. The first part of my story is here, I posted under an other name:
    And the follow-up is somewhere in the posts of 2-3 month here. Long story short, finally he reported me to the police based on false claims and now he is enjoying his success that he got rid off me….
    Brava, I say… He managed to get rid off the only person in the world who loved him. I can onlysay congratulations to him. It was me who had a good riddance. He never loved me.

    Now I’m in a place where I take care of myself, I used my masculine energy to get out of this situation. He is truly toxic and I don’t want to hear about him anymore. I’m starting to CD soon (I was busy with work and university and still be for a short time)

    I have my strong boundaries. I see my girlfriends’ guys who cherish the girls and roar the boat!!!!

    SG, please believe me you don’t need this guy!!! You don’t need THIS! You don’t want to be told where to go and what to do… If I could get out of stuck, you can.

    I love Daria’s “Fuck you” attitude sometimes and I could absolutely use it. Maybe other Sirens have different insights, I hope they share it with you/ us.

    I want to say THANK YOU to Frenchkitty for her constant personal help, support and FRIENDSHIP to me!!!! <3
    She is a real fairy and godsent angel to me.

    SG, please read/google Plum's comments here. She is absolutely amazing, brillant, right to the point.

    I'm at a starting point now… It took me ONE YEAR!!!! Troubled with ALL kinds of feelings.
    YOU CAN GET HERE!!!!! GO GIRL!!!!! And let me know how you are feeling about all these!!!

  349.  #349chinny on December 22, 2010 at 10:33 am

    I really enjoy the news letters that I have been getting from you. I have learn
    a lot,
    this is how i know the relationship I’m in is not OK.

    I have have this guy in my life, Its very

    complicated I really don’t know if i should be calling hi my boyfriend Just
    don’t feel comfortable saying it.He has never really expressed his feelings to
    me that drives me crazy he says we are committed. sigh
    I’m not seeing anyone else, I’m always the one asking, wanting to see him, I
    feel so bad at times it drives me crazy, the funny thing is I don’t even know
    if i really like him.

    I know I’m a catch, I’m really a gorgeous girl but I find myself wondering
    guessing if I’m not goo enough.
    I’ve always attracted the wrong set of guys meaning Its like they know they
    don’t deserve me so they try not to fall for me and in return i end-up with no
    I know my situation is kinda complicated but just please in box me your response
    or solution…

    thanks much


  350.  #350Rori Raye on December 22, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    chinny – even gorgeous girls (sometimes especially – gorgeous girls) have low self-esteem. That’s you, and that’s what needs work. We’ll help you. Somehow, you don’t think you’re enough. Coaching would be great for you – until then, read everything here – especially Tinque’s article about “not being enough” – practice only being interested in men who act like men and treat you GREAT!!! Love, Rori

  351.  #351Jim on December 24, 2010 at 12:49 am

    What little I’ve read does lead me to believe there is lots of rubbish going on. Like he’s good on paper. My thoughts on that. You like him on paper, your for sale, you’ve already been bought and sold. He’s done you the same disservice by showing you his, “portfolio,” so to speak. He says, “I’ve got this and am that.” you say, “You qualify.” Your both stupid, bought and sold. As for the games, ALL GAMES ARE TOXIC, just you being on this website asking for advice is tantamount to, “How do I play the game better.” ALL CRAP.

    Allure, grow up, talk to your man, know the difference between reality, maturity and crap. When you’ve got issues with yourselves, fix them. All of you, grow up. And that stupid web site, whatever his name is, He’s a fool too. All you people are really doing in trying to incite one another into what you think is love, so you can get what you want.

    I am amazed at all the crap people add to an already difficult endeavor, people dealing with one another emotionally. They don’t call it, “Whore Moans,” for nothing you know. Just more for people to incite themselves with.

    “Is your man toxic?” Way to feed the shit. Way to put crap in women’s heads about their men. Poor victims, really just after power and money.

    BTW when he said you were the most beautiful woman in the world. He was just saying he thought you are very beautiful and to him, because he cares for you, you are the most beautiful in the world to him. Go away, he deserves better because he’s willing to love and be loved. I’m sure he’d really rather drop all the game CRAP…

    Also saying men are, “but no man is evolved as women are.” Now if that helps you be more patient WITH YOURSELF for his sake, whatever…

    What do you have to offer a relationship, I don’t remember you ever talking about any of that, except what you won’t do or don’t do anymore.

    You, with your stupid little childish games, whoever stands a chance.

    Though I will say this, Rori does make an attempt to address you as the problem and you are indeed the problem, as it appears to me.

  352.  #352Jim on December 24, 2010 at 12:54 am

    One other thing, anyone who thinks, implies or outright says the know it all, IS FULL OF CRAP. No one knows it all. No one has all the right answers. At best we do the best we can and if that’s not good enough. Oh well.

  353.  #353chinny on December 24, 2010 at 5:55 am

    Thanks Rori.. could i get the link to the article from some one please

    Tinque’s article about “not being enough”

  354.  #354Rori Raye on December 24, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Welcome, Jim – and you seem quite passionate about these deeply – to me – spiritual issues of what it is to be in relationship with another human being. If you are interested in what I have to say (even to disagree with me) please read as much as you can here. One post doesn’t really give you the full picture. Every relationship takes two – and a consideration for the third entity of the “relationship” itself – which often has needs beyond our individual ones. What we can all do is our own part – and work to feed the relationship part that’s beyond ourselves. So, yes – working on us is where we start – but, for me, there is no negative, angry, blaming, (and certainly no game-playing) aspect to this that makes sense – other than the FEELINGS we have that are angry and blaming. And that’s where my work is located. In honoring and expressing the feelings rather than ‘acting” from them. Love, Rori

  355.  #356Jim on December 24, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Rori, My apologies, yes I was angry after reading only the first posts, went straight to comments. Actually, thank you for notifying people to look to themselves first. I did step over that myself, reacted and was quick to judge. Again, my humblest apologies and thank you for setting me straight. Though, I do admit, it was just a little while after my post that I saw my own errors. We all always have work to do with ourselves and MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours. Jim

  356.  #357Rori Raye on December 24, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Merry Christmas and a great New Year to you, too Jim – we ALWAYS love having a man here to bounce ideas off of. If you read the comments – know that I am encouraging the use of this blog as a sort of free-form journal for everyone (including me) – as well as interaction and support, and that we women are, indeed different from you as a man in that our nervous systems and hormones and training from childhood lead us to different priorities…and the hugest part of what we’re doing here is getting in touch with FEELINGS – even if they feel or sound unpleasant – so that we can learn to express stuff that we’ve stuffed down our whole lives without, as you say, “reacting” in old ways. So – we try not to “filter” and just let it come out “raw” – as long as we stick to what’s inside us and do not judge either ourselves or anyone else. Welcome to the world of being a woman! What you learn here can help you understand what so few men understand — and you’ll find your ability to be with a woman in a great, deep way increases incredibly. Love, Rori

  357.  #358Brenda on December 24, 2010 at 9:19 pm


    I admire you so much as a role model! How I want to master this gentle communication! Merry Christmas!

  358.  #359Jim on December 26, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Ok, I read all 359 comments, frankly, on an emotional level, my opinion is that men and women are identical, exactly the same. So I have a few comments…

    There were some profoundly candid human comments above. I took notes… 🙂

    276: Lorelei
    The last paragraph,
    WTF!!! You almost ended it perfect had you just said, giving too… Though I know it is there.

    316: Turtle Girl,

    Though I only list 2 replies here, there were many, more good ones.. the rest best left out.

    There was also a post where you told the gal to disclose all to all men… Very good advice “in deed.”

    Self esteem, self confidence are earned from ourselves, one way or another. There are no short cuts, as far as the saying goes to love one’s self. I also have an addendum for that, Love your neighbor as yourself… and vs vsr.

    I understand what most of these women want. The circular dating thing? Best not to mislead anyone, ever.
    As far as the “tools,” go? As a man, this is the best advice I can ever give a woman or man. Just be yourself.

    I loved my women most when they were just being themselves. No acting, no being how they think I want them to be… Them not acting like I’m supposed to do this or that for them. I’ve got my own mind, like you, I know what to do about us, you do to, leave it alone at that… It’s a lot easier to love when we let it flow up and out, rather than being pulled or pushed intentionally.

    As for the load bearing comment, “No more bf.” Here is a sad and beautiful truth. I will ask a woman to marry me when I want to marry her. Very natural, when a woman expects such a thing, she is not letting him make up his own mind. That will, always will come back to haunt her and him… No tricks, no games, no nudging… no bs… In some ways, we jumped off track and thought that doing the numbers was a good thing. Umm… don’t.

    Have faith in your man. “A woman can put wind in your sails or an anchor through your boat.” Have you got your man’s back? Are you beside him? Do you have faith in him? Again, ” ” HAVE YOU GOT YOUR MAN’S BACK? ” ” I say this to men too, so they too can show it to their women… and maybe somehow through all this, we can all get back to where we belong with one another…

    Another thing, your man is human, there was a comment where the lady didn’t want to be a mommy to him, he was all “needy.” Guess what? You just blew an opportunity to fill your man with strength and love. So, now when you are feeling needy and there’s no one there. You too will get to learn a dear lesson I learned.

    We all expect things in relationships, What do we expect ourselves to give and do? Hmm?

    After all, for me as a guy, there is no greater event, no greater moment, than to be sharing love with my woman. I know the same goes for her too. For all of you that have posted here.

    I say, you want Mr Right, be Ms. Right. Stop worrying about what is his responsibility. He will tend to… You tend too…. Have faith, love despite your intrusive moments with yourself… Do it for, “us.”

    Teach your man the same and he will teach you to love… or if you like… Teach your woman the same and she will teach you to love.

    Maya Angelo said it best, “Where the heart is, everything else will follow.” Look in the mirror, know this, know where your heart is, know it. If it is in a good place, follow it. If not, there’s still time to change the road your on… The rest is up to you ladies… Your the best thing that ever happened to us, need I say more?

    My best wishes, hopes and dreams for all here in.
    Thank you for your time,

  359.  #360Daria on December 26, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Jim – hey its me Goddess Daria!

    you know, I used to think men and women are EXACTLY THE SAME ! too!

    and that didn’t work for me…

    weirdly i now see us as very different and various surface outsides,

    exactly the same on like a middle layer of awareness,

    and the INNER layer different…!

    It feels REALLY fulfilling to see that for me… I see it play out in my family too…

    I really like the belief that deep down men want to please women…

    thus beautiful songs like “when you really love a woman” – Brian Adams, etc etc

    it was something i had to first allow myself to explore to see if it was true (that femininity and masculintity) … and shockingly i just kept seeing it was the more i experimented!

    It’s like a beautiful dance you know, the masculine LEADS.

    they CAN both lead, but it works as a dance when ONE leads, the other follows (not lesser than, just flowing, soft, surrenedered)

    Does soft and surrendered sound masculine? (expecting a no here)

    Happy to see you interacting here…

    a lot of us ladies write on the LATEST posts,

    so if you go to

    blog.havetherelationshipyouwant and click on the top post… then you’ll find us

    we’d love a man to practice with!

    and you can say all you think of course even if we feel good or upset…

    it really helps to see it for me in the

  360.  #361Brenda on December 26, 2010 at 5:55 pm


    What sweet things you shared! Thank you! In case you are interested in continuing to post, most of us post on the newest thread, which is in order here:

    In my understanding, what we are trying to do here isn’t so much to be pretentious, but to learn to communicate increasingly more authentically, while still being welcoming and open to a man.

    For myself, I came from an emotionally abusive childhood, filled with yelling, criticism, and contention. I feel so good to learn how to share my heart in a loving, caring, gentle way.

  361.  #362Jim on December 26, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Nice post… I think I understand what you are saying, my comment is, “emotionally.”

    Also, my friends call me, God Jim.. (Believe it or not.)

    I consider it an Honor and a privilege to, “practice with!”

    See ya soon,

  362.  #363Rick on October 10, 2011 at 10:58 am

    I am a man, I saw your site and thought a woman would probably be my best help. So here it goes. I am married
    for 27 years. For the past 10 years my wife and I grew apart. We talked about it, went for counseling and realized we are not in love any more. We live like best friends and roommates. Not like a husband and wife. My wife also over these 10 years has lost interest in sex, she blames it on early menopausal issues. So we decided to divorce. We are both fine in all this. Here is the problem, I met a woman 4 years ago and started a friendship with her that grew into a love relationship between us. Even though it was against both our principles we made love and fell in love. My girlfriend knew all up front,except shethought our divorce would have been faster, which is my fault because I wanted my wife to initiate the process. Before I met this woman four years ago my wife said she wanted a divorce.
    So I waited for her to initiate the process, not knowing I would fall for another woman. The reason for the delay in our divorce was financial, too many things hit all at once.
    You name it it happened, my daughter was going to college, the economy got bad, my investments tanked on me, and job loss. So now I am in the process of my divorce but my girlfriend feels she fell out of love with me. She feels I should have moved it faster for us to be together. Now she tells me that she does not want sex which we have been holding off of any way and says get the divorce and we will see how she feels after this. Now in between all this she has been true to me and I true to her. She mentioned that somebody was interested in courting her and asked me how I felt? I said I am in love with her and her only and asked her not to let anybody in between.
    I want to marry her and have a family with her. So far she has not let anybody in. As per her request, she just wants to see eachother as friends which is what we are doing. We get together play tennis, go to a movie, have dinner etc. Her rule is no intamacy till I am divorced, I agreed. I am in love with her no doubt, I know she loves me no doubt.
    I just wonder can she fall back in love with me? How do I handle this? I don’t want to lose her. How do I keep her without pressuring her? I don’t want to smother her yet I want her to know I am there for her. How do I reassure her of this as I go through the process of divorce. I am finding my relationship with her tougher than the divorce because as a man I don’t know if I am reading her right. I lover so much and she knows it, yet I feel I could lose her if I don’t play my cards right. I hope you can help me. Signed, Rick, A man lost in love as he goes through a divorce.