Don’t Be Friends

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This is a jump off from a question from Robin –

“My pattern seems to be getting put in the ‘friends’ category. When I was a teenager, I thought this was the way to go, because I always heard from people that you want to “marry your best friend.” Or that you have a better chance of being with someone if you are their friend first.

Looking back, I can see how I came to this conclusion; my grandparents were best friends, and theirs was the healthiest of relationships I could observe at that time in my life.

And even that was not all that healthy and not completely what I want for my own life…

I really value a friendship element in a long-term relationship, and can see from others in my life that this is important for marriage, BUT…

I’m missing something if I keep getting put in that category. And I can’t quite figure out how to undo this pattern, because I formed this pattern, thinking it was a good thing to go to one extreme of the spectrum.

Is there a specific way to break this pattern all at once, or is this something for baby steps??

Here’s my answer:

The truth is – we KNOW a friend from a lover.  Hanging out with a male “friend” can be fantastic.  My men friends saved my emotional life countless times, and those memories are some of my best.

Unless a man is gay, however (which is why gay men are often the best friends) – you can TELL if he’s hanging out with you because of genuine friendship or if he’s “interested” in you in more romantic ways.

And it feels GREAT if a man is “interested” in you and wants to be around you – especially if he’s romantically interested in you, because that adds another dimension that makes you feel attractive and sexy in his presence – not just like a “pal” – and if what you pick up from him is that he’s not romantically interested – as long as YOU don’t have those kinds of feelings for him – it doesn’t MATTER!  You can enjoy being with him no matter WHAT his level of interest, as long as it feels like fun – and as long as you don’t CARE.

The reverse is completely NOT GOOD for you – where you are hanging out with a man who has expressed “friendship” in words, deeds, and energy – and YOU feel MORE.

Just don’t do that.  Don’t hang out with men friends when you wish there were more.  Just don’t do it.

Now – here’s a wrinkle.  We’re friends with people because we feel attracted to them. This includes the “geeky” guy we know who’s funny and makes us laugh.  This includes our girlfriends.  Anyone we feel good around, anyone we want to talk to, be with, stand near – we feel attracted to.  And I don’t just mean “platonically.”

I know this is hard to embrace.  But the truth is – there is an erotic component to this attraction.  The next time you find yourself talking with someone you couldn’t IMAGINE feeling erotically attracted to – a homeless person, a person you might label as “ugly” – or the wrong gender – if you can embrace the truth that you are erotically attracted to that person as well as attracted on intellectual and emotional levels – you will get this so much faster.

In other words – if you like being around a person – there is a part of you that feels erotically attracted to them. It doesn’t mean you find this person appropriate for a relationship, and it doesn’t mean you feel romantically attracted to them.  It just means you feel sexually, erotically attracted.

And what happens with most of us?  When we’re faced with an erotic attraction to someone “inappropriate” – we shut down.

And I don’t want you to do that.

I want you to stay open to ALWAYS feeling erotically attracted to YOURSELF – and so you will ALWAYS be radiating a sexual, sensual, erotic vibe. We’re all afraid of what will happen if we open ourselves up like that – and I want you to embrace that fear and open up anyway.

So – what you may feel from a man who says he wants “friendship” is that EROTIC component he also feels.  You may just hook it up to your OWN feelings for him, because these energies bounce off of each other, or you may mistake that erotic energy for ROMANTIC feelings.

This is how it gets so confusing with a man who says “friends” but feels like more than that to you.  This is why a man can sleep with you and still consider you just a “friend.”

It’s not cruelty.  He’s not trying to hurt you.  It’s just simpler for him than it is for you.

So don’t go there.  Just say NO to “just friends.”

Circular Date.  Do the Whole Targeting Mr. Right “Diva” stuff – and it will get clear to you…Love, Rori


  1.  #1Robin on May 8, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Rori, THANK YOU for helping us exploring this concept!!!!!

    I do have 1 question though, So then how can we tell the difference between us mistaking the erotic component for actual romantic feelings from him, and the guy being genuintely interested in us romantically??

    I feel sad…So that means when a man says he wants to be ‘friends’ but he acts like he’s interested in more, and we start making excuses, like that he’s scared, or not ready, or that he’ll suddently ‘realize’ one day that he’s in love with us…we’re picking up on that erotic element of attraction and getting our hopes up….??

    I feel sad because the guy who I saw last said this, but then I thought he felt more for me…he acted like he did…I always felt ‘got’ and connected & I really truly felt like he was interested in me…& today’s his birthday, so Im thinking about him more than I have in a while…we work together, so I have to see him weekly….I haven’t been there for the friendship, but I’m feeling sad today…

  2.  #2Daria on May 8, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Crap… Rori you’re right…

    I’ve been exploring this idea in a way thinking about the EFT therapist that (sort of) flirted with me.

    I guess part of me (and I hear my mom’s voice in my head) expects a man that is older than me to act like a ‘father figure’ to me. As in not sexual. I am starting to realize that I am so attractive that these men who are older Are attracted to me, and they are not my fathers, and that feels a little unsafe. Because I feel like judging them for being “sleazy” and I feel uncomfortable when they “come on to me”… that is when I don’t feel Romantically attracted.

    I can accept the erotic thing, I’m having a little trouble, since I live with my parents, to think about that I am feeling erotic attraction to my parents! That feels kinda icky to think about…

    I am going to accept this without hopefully over triggering myself about my parents…

    I feel kinda shaky with a disgusted face right now and I feel tension in my thighs and face.

  3.  #3Daria on May 8, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Robin of course the guy who is interested Romantically will make that clear with the leaning forward, giving us energy, and most likely Telling us that he is interested Romantically.

  4.  #4Daria on May 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Robin …

    This is exactly what I have understood from Rori’s stuff:

    “So that means when a man says he wants to be ‘friends’ but he acts like he’s interested in more, and we start making excuses, like that he’s scared, or not ready, or that he’ll suddently ‘realize’ one day that he’s in love with us…we’re picking up on that erotic element of attraction and getting our hopes up….??”

    That’s exactly why we don’t want to make excuses, because it will land us in an imaginary relationship with a man who is not putting out the energy and stepping up.

    I hear you feeling sad, and I would feel happy to hear that you were sinking in the sad feelings, feeling glad to feel sad (what a concept), and embracing them even a little bit. Just a little bit is plenty. Then you can expect greater joy coming your way!

  5.  #5ann on May 8, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    i feel confusion. will read again from computer later.

  6.  #6Ann on May 8, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    I’m sorry I’m NOT comprehending one part of this post. Maybe it’s just me. I know I don’t operate the way alot of the world does. I’m a very inquistive person, I can be a loner, I question alot of things. I don’t call people friends easily. I have a lot of aquantiness(sp), I can be friendly with almost anyone but if I use the term friend in connection with a person it means they’ve earned a certain amount of trust with me.

    I understand there are things that draw us to people on a intellectual and emotional levels but you lost me when you said:

    “Anyone we feel good around, anyone we want to talk to, be with, stand near – we feel attracted to. And I don’t just mean “platonically. But the truth is – there is an erotic component to this attraction.”

    Can someone explain this better to me because I feel lost here?

  7.  #7Daria on May 8, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Ann… I’m guessing it means we feel “turned on” and that means subconsciously we are turned on in a sexual way as well.

    I’ve been thinking about this today too and I can kind of see the truth, yet I do get kind of lost trying to Overapply this…

    do we feel erotically attracted to our kids? our pets? trees?

  8.  #8Daria on May 8, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    I feel really interested in what Rori is doing here and interested in allowing myself to feel turned on by myself even in the presence of people I do not feel romantically interested in.

  9.  #9Ann on May 8, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Thank Daria for replying. I get she is saying what you said:

    “Ann… I’m guessing it means we feel “turned on” and that means subconsciously we are turned on in a sexual way as well.”

    I’m curious as to why Rori thinks this. Thunderstorm getting off here

  10.  #10Linmayu on May 8, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    I know I feel attracted to people all the time, on that level. Male, female, young, old, it doesn’t fucking matter.

    What has always felt so hard for me is the fact that most of them don’t seem to be in any way attracted to me. Again, male, female, young, old, it doesn’t fucking matter. It hurts, and feels frustrating, and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me.

    As far as whether it’s sexual, my theory is that it’s a matter of degree; the energy of attraction is the same between friends as it is between lovers, but between lovers it’s stronger and we call it sexual as opposed to platonic, but it’s really the same thing.

  11.  #11Maria on May 9, 2009 at 4:08 am

    Well l have always instinctively felt that if the guy does not feel romantically toward me but wants to be my friend and taking advantage of my nature and kindness, he actually has no right to do it.

  12.  #12Flipper on May 9, 2009 at 5:52 am

    Aha! moment: my sexual energy is an extremely powerful, basic and important element of my energy as a whole, and one that is not separate from the rest. I just posted on another thread about ‘being’ pretty and not getting any of the attention that’s supposed to go automatically with that, ‘getting’ meaning that I wasn’t receiving it nor feeling that it was being offered, or recognizing when it actually was. For the longest time, like most of my life, I’ve had a disconnect with my sexuality. Completely uptight till college, then (I thought) pretty open and cool. But in fact, it was all in little box – I just didn’t go there, AT ALL, unless I was romantically attracted, which didn’t happen often. Then I’d go all out (overfunctioning in that and every other domain) and got the results Rori so aptly describes in her life before enlightenment – dumped, drifted away from for someone else or even more often, no one and nothing.

    But that Sexual energy, which for us is mainly female, must be the essential fuel of our core selves as people and as women. So if I’m in denial as to its reality, feel indifference or find it irrelevant, I’m cutting myself off from my power as a person, in All relationships. What do you think ?

  13.  #13Linmayu on May 9, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Yes, omg yes, thank you Flipper. Somehow your Aha moment gave me one of my own. 🙂

    I’m feeling something that I’d read in books before–that love is all there is, and it exists between all things, and attracts them to each other. And when the love is allowed to grow strong, it becomes sex–which is not separate from love, it IS love, though many in our society prefer to separate and cut it off.

    It feels like this is also why people in marriages stop having sex when resentment gets between them. Something is blocking the love. It can get blocked so powerfully that people feel there’s no choice but to divorce–but this separation is not the true nature of things.

    I know I just said the same thing two posts ago, but I was THINKING it then, and I’m FEELING it now. I can’t say what this means for me personally, just that I feel it. It feels like a relief to have this view of the divine order and see what’s true, rather than just reflections of what’s happened to me in the past.

  14.  #14Open Your Heart to the Love on May 9, 2009 at 9:57 am

    I’m going to have to bounce this one around in my head for awhile.

  15.  #15Erika on May 9, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Linmayu, you wrote:

    “What has always felt so hard for me is the fact that most of them don’t seem to be in any way attracted to me. Again, male, female, young, old, it doesn’t fucking matter. It hurts, and feels frustrating, and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me.”

    For what it’s worth, I feel attracted to you. When you commented on my articles, I felt a deep sense of resonance with you, mixed with appreciation for your support during a difficult moment for me.

    I find your photo on your avatar very endearing. I might be reading it wrong (if so, no big deal), but to me, the willingness to post a photo combined with putting your hand up to block us from seeing you fully says:

    “I’m here, opening myself up, and I’m not quite ready yet to show myself fully. I very much want to be seen, and I’m also unsure how that might feel, to be seen fully. I’m not sure what kind of attention might come back my direction, so I’m not ready to let it all in yet. But I’m here anyway, sharing in these experiences with all of you, becoming braver every day, allowing myself to be seen more and more.”

    And that might just be my own projection, of what resonates with me, as we are all daring to reveal more and more of ourselves.


  16.  #16Erika on May 9, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    And to Rori:

    I like this post very much. Yes, I like thinking of my sensual energy as something that extends to the whole world, cuz on happy days it feels like it does.

    Also, I like how you didn’t set arbitrary rules about when to be friends with a guy and when not to. If it feels good and peaceful, then yes. If it feels awful, then no. And if it feels that deceptive kind of “good” that I know will later turn to awful, then even more NO. Lol 🙂

    Basking in love today,

  17.  #17Robin on May 9, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Flipper, & Linmayu, yes, yes, yes, Its a part of us-wow, and you can’t separate it. just like the soup and our emotions-and being a friend is essentially the same as lover in many ways, there’s such a thin line between them-and that’s got to be part of why I’ve been put into the ‘friends’ category before-it just need to tweek it a little bit, its like I’m borderline-Wow THANK YOU for sharing that with us! You’re both incredible!

    Daria, THANK YOU-Yes, I’m feeling sad (I’m also feeling frustrated with circular dating-gonna post on that in a minute), so I’m gonna sink into it and embrace that feeling…I just keep finding myself confronted with him-even when Im not thinking about him-by others, or just little weird things-he just seems to show up one way or another, in some form or another…interesting..a guy in my rotation called me yesterday and said something about timing..this is what happened with this last guy-the timing was OFF OFF OFF…and you know what, its ok, I’m feel glad I got that message from this new guy…

  18.  #18Linmayu on May 9, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Aww, Erika, I feel attracted to you too! Lol. I found your comment to me so endearing.

    Here on this blog, I feel like I’ve made infinitely more connections than I generally do out in the world. I’ve reached out to women, and had women reach out to me, and it feels wonderful. I have similar experiences with my women’s group. But the rest of the world feels very cold and hard to me. It never fails to astonish me how often I feel unseen, how often my heart jumps out of my skin to hear someone talk about something they have in common with me–but when I enter the conversation, what I say doesn’t even register on any level.

    Part of this is because I don’t wear myself on my sleeve. I don’t express who I am in an outward way that can instantly be seen–I’m not even sure who I am to begin with.

    As far as my picture, everything you’ve said feels true. I admire your insight; though really I was just trying to find some way to take a picture that showed off the henna tattoo and also contained my face.

  19.  #19Flipper on May 9, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    The ‘art’ of unexpected consequences. Be surprised!

  20.  #20Daria on May 9, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Ok you guys… help me with this… are we feeling this “erotic” thing when playing with kids… wanting to hug our parents… etc…?

    And how do we embrace that… I still feel uncomfortable thinking about feeling turned on in front of kids… although I’m getting on some level that being turned on should be ok no matter what, that it’s enhancing me as a person…

    What do you guys think?

  21.  #21Linmayu on May 9, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Omg. I have never in my life actually purchased a magazine in order to follow the juicy details of celebrity lives, but I did today. I couldn’t help it. I saw a headline that said “Jen and Brad TOGETHER AGAIN!” and my wallet was out before I could talk myself out of it. I feel like a dorky teenage fangirl. Omg. I feel so excited about this and I don’t even like Brad.

    Those two getting close again was something I never, ever imagined would happen. Squeee!

    God. I can’t allow myself to make a habit of this. I feel all unintellectual and trashy.

    On the other hand, I’m thankful to all these famous people who are willing to fall hard in public. It’s instructive to the rest of us.

  22.  #22Daria on May 9, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    oh wow… what happened to Angelina and Brad?

  23.  #23Linmayu on May 9, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    They’re apparently having issues, and he’s getting closer to Jen. They aren’t really back together yet (now that I’ve actually read the article).

    It’s one of those things where the writer could have just been reading too much into stuff–they’re texting each other, he’s wearing her necklace, bla bla bla. I still got excited though.

  24.  #24cookie on May 9, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Oh this post so demonstrates my genius as I have been saying very similar things about this topic since i was in high school. I have always told people that in a way everyone is bisexual and that our relationships are all actions of varying levels of attraction and that we choose to act on some feelings more than the other. But that it is all chemistry and sexuality and attraction. I believe that when I choose to be friends with women and men, it is because something about them I am attracted to and these feelings make me want to be around them and have them in my life (usually because they have an element that I feel like I’m lacking). Which is also the reason that when my relationships end with my friends, I experience the same lost and sense of longing that I feel for the lost of a lover, sometimes even more because in most cases in my friendships I am my most vulnerable and exposed self.

    On another note: Although I can imagine what you ladies and Rori would say on this, I will throw this out there anyway. So my relationship with my guy of 7 plus years, probably an imaginary relationship at this point, is starting to feel too comfortable like old buddies. I don’t enjoy feeling like this about the relationship because he still calls me his woman but I don’t feel the romance or passion. I want that so badly and deeply and don’t know how to share these feelings. When relationships shift from the heat and sexual explosiveness to casual and friendly, what does that mean? Is this inevitable in relationships, that with time, the sex, romance, and passion dies? I honestly hope not but I really fear that. I know that the answer for the lack of passion is to Circular date but that’s not what I’m talking about right now. I’m saying how long can we expect to feel sexy and sexual about our partners and what if he is not reciprocating on these levels. Can it be brought back? Does that mean that the attraction was friendly from the beginning and just got misread? What does it mean? What do you ladies think?

  25.  #25Ann on May 9, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Hi Cookie, I’d like to share 3 truths with you:

    Truth #1: Changing your perspective about someone is
    the best way to help them change their perspective about you.

    Truth #2: Nothing will change in your life until you
    change your own BEHAVIOR.

    Truth #3: The ONLY way to actually change your
    behavior is to change your mindset or perspective.

    I’m working on these myself. I’m working on changeing my perspective about myself and my own behavior.

    BTW these are Christain Carter’s 3 truths

  26.  #26Linmayu on May 9, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    You go, genius goddess Cookie! 😉

  27.  #27cookie on May 9, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Hi, Ann and Linmayu, thanks for responding. Ann, I feel curious, can you tell me how the three truths relate to my situation(s)? Thanks

  28.  #28Daria on May 9, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    I’m feeling furious right now. I have 2 girlfriends that I am casually friends with, that is we mostly go out to dance clubs together. Well everything is fine when I drive except right now I don’t want to drive and they don’t want to pick me up.

    One is getting picked up by other friends who don’t want to come get me (10 min away), but I get Her friends and don’t think twice when I’m driving… which is always because she never wants to drive because she drinks too much.

    The other girl I drove on Thursday and she agreed she would drive today, but now she’s saying since I didn’t pick up her call earlier (I wasn’t in the room) she made plans to sleep at this guy’s house. And now she’s like come to her house but that’s 10 minutes away also, so she would have to drive me back there anyway if I just came to her house.

    I feel pist off.

  29.  #29Daria on May 9, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    I feel so pist and I feel uncomfortable expressing my pist off ness to women.

  30.  #30Daria on May 9, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    I usually have no problem with driving so I guess they’re used to it. I’m trying to be more careful about drinking and driving and that’s why I don’t want to drive.

  31.  #31Ann on May 9, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    Cookie you said:

    I’m saying how long can we expect to feel sexy and sexual about our partners and what if he is not reciprocating on these levels. Can it be brought back? Does that mean that the attraction was friendly from the beginning and just got misread? What does it mean?

    Truth #1: Changing your perspective about someone is
    the best way to help them change their perspective about you.

    If I remember right(correct me if I’m wrong) your mam isn’t showing the interest you want him to. How about telling yourself he is still interested, he does want to make love. He thinks you’re very sexy, he can’t hardly keep his hands off you.

    Truth #2: Nothing will change in your life until you
    change your own BEHAVIOR.

    Become that women you want him to see. Get that walk down shake that groove thing as they say. Feel you

    Truth #3: The ONLY way to actually change your
    behavior is to change your mindset or perspective.

    He won’t change, your opinion of your situation won’t change, you won’t feel more sexy UNTIL you focus on you and what you want. UNTIL it resonates in your being it is possible.

    To me these 3 truths mean I have to start with me. I have to change my mindset, my behaviors.

    I hope I’m making sense. Here’s another thing of Christain Carter’s I’m trying to make part of me:

    “Seek to understand and you’ll be understood.”

    “This approach has been more valuable to me in my
    personal relationships than any other single thought or piece of advice. When you seek to understand how another person sees things in a situation, you’re simply giving yourself a much broader perspective from which you can make choices and actions.”

  32.  #32Ann on May 9, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Daria you might could explain to your friends you’re trying to be more careful drinking & driving. BUT you still very much want to go out. Couldn’t you ladies car pool and take turns driving?

    Or just go off and tell them what selfish a@@ their being and get new friends….

  33.  #33Tracy on May 9, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    I loved your post to Cookie…..It makes a lot of sense to always start from yourself….
    I love this post vey much because it resonates perfectly with my current situation.i am also reminded so much about my past….
    Most men have always put me inthe friendship category and the current guy is tiltingme towards the same place….
    He’s been having financial problems and though he always pays me back when i loan him money i feel uncormfortable doing it and akward having to help him….and with all i have learnt i feel that this is onl going to put me introuble….
    I feel Attracted to him erotically and i now realise that he feels the same way but that is all there is to it….
    He recently told me that himself….that he feels attacted to me….but i feel that its only sexual…..
    I feel glad that i am not angry wih that……I feel sexy and i feel attractive but i want more than that…..
    Rori says not to shut ourself out…..but instead to feel sexually attracted to ourselves….
    I want to practise always feeling sexually attracted to myself….
    Okay…back to the guy issue….so now i feel that i should stop…helping him…it doesn’t feel good….I don’t feel comfortable doing it…I feel myself bulding expectations around my assistance….so i amgoing to work on that for now…
    Should he ask i intend to speak my truth about it…express my discormfort and smile…that would feel really good….

  34.  #34Tracy on May 9, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    I just re-read my post and i realize that i put myself in this friendship category…..i acted as a friend….i overfunctioned…i leaned foward…..i am still putting myself in that category and i want to change that…..I am responsible for my outcomes…

  35.  #35gina on May 10, 2009 at 12:37 am

    This erotic stuff is interesting. I’m uncomfortable with it. I feel weird about the parent stuff too! And my brother. Sometimes I wish all that erotic stuff wasn’t a part of being human, but I see that it’s much happier to embrace it since it is the primary experience of humanity. Probably the basis of Compassion (common passion), Love, Friendship, and Peace. War can only come by artificial severing of our ties to other humans – even anger and hatred is erotically charged. That’s probably why some men feel homophobic – they are scared of their own erotic feelings. They’d rather feel in control, rational. I think embracing eroticism is the very most sensible thing to do, and it’s totally feminine wisdom. Love it.

  36.  #36gina on May 10, 2009 at 12:43 am

    I’m a preschool teacher, and I definitely feel the erotic attraction with little kids, but I’ve come to embrace it. I know that they feel it for me, though they are more waaaay comfortable with it then I am. They want to touch my breasts, put their hands on my privates – even their faces!! They just naturally act like “lovers” in a way, but it is completely innocent. It’s not sexual, even though it’s erotic.

  37.  #37gina on May 10, 2009 at 12:58 am

    BTW, a while ago, I posted about my tendency to be late, and how i was determined to change my ways. I just want to report that I have been doing much better – I’m barely on time as opposed to flat-out late. I’d like to be early. You’d think it’d be easy, but it’s like my mind starts to change as the time to go approaches. I start to justify being five minutes late. I tell myself that I should still have enough time. I begin to push the time limit further and further back. I’m a waitress on the weekends, and that job highlights all of my weaknesses. My strengths are that I’m creative, articulate, and intelligent. My weaknesses are precision, consistency and multitasking. It seems my strong characteristics aren’t valued nearly as much as my weak characteristics in society overall. Or maybe just in my head. In my head, my weaknesses are holding me back from fulfilling my destiny. But then I remember that my destiny is here and now because this is where I have arrived. Step by step I can change my course by taking Responsibility (response ability – the ability to control the response that i get) Like others here have mentioned: changing behavior produces different results. I am lying to myself if I believe that tardiness is some fundamental weakness within me. It is a choice. I need to take inventory of what is within my control (and make changes), and I need to accept what isnt within my control.

  38.  #38Daria on May 10, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Gina you are so freakin awesome. I feel so relieved that you wrote that about your kids. I work with kids too and I was having trouble embracing it.

    Omgosh thank you.

  39.  #39Daria on May 10, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Omgosh AGAIN!!! Gina it seems we have some of the “same” strengths and weaknesses. I too am struggling with being late and feeling like it’s holding me back.

    I’m so glad you wrote that it’s not some fundamental thing but a choice. Wow that felt refreshing….

    I feel tight in my throat right now.

  40.  #40Daria on May 10, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I like Response ability… although I don’t believe we can Control the result we get, maybe Invite the result we Want? Or control our response to events?

    Response ability feels so freeing compared to the way the old word used to feel to me.

  41.  #41Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 7:43 am

    This is an interesting take on things. I have a ton of friends, both male and female, who I like a lot. I really enjoy their company and have lots of fun around them. After reading this post, I searched and searched within myself and don’t see the erotic attraction. They’re straight up friends. I don’t feel sexy around them or erotic towards them or anything other than complete and total platonic friendship. Am I missing something? Really? We’re sexually attracted to everyone we like? I don’t feel it…at all…and I’m a pretty sexual person…

    I do know that with some people, I don’t see them as physically attractive until I get to know them. Once their personality shines through I see them as better looking than my first impression (and same is true of a good looking person who turns out to be a jerk…I can lose the ability to see their attractive physical qualities). But…is that what Rori’s talking about? When we think someone is physically attractive that means we’re erotically attracted to them? I don’t see it.

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding? Can someone help me with this concept?

    Much Love,

  42.  #42Linmayu on May 11, 2009 at 7:54 am

    Right now, I’m feeling very guilty and bad. Over these past several months, I have said a lot here, and some of the things I’ve said regarding my husband, I should not have said. No matter how bad things may have been, it still doesn’t give me the right to slander him on the internet. Some of the things I said, I don’t know if they are even true.

    I wish I could go back and delete all those comments.

  43.  #43Tracy on May 11, 2009 at 8:43 am

    Lin mayu,
    I feel bad that your feeling sad about what you have written in the past….
    I feel that too sometimes,i write something then maybe a few days later i realize that maybe i should have said it another way…i feel that that by writing down what i feel or perceive a situation to be helps me discover myself and my belief and from there i can choose to analyze these beliefs as to whether they are really true or not and then choose to change if i need to….and its okay to change my mind and to change my perspective on life…
    It feels more comforting when i think of it this way.

  44.  #44Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 8:55 am

    Linmayu, I don’t feel you were slandering anyone in a ‘real’, everyday sense. I have always heard you expressing things from your Feelings – talking about them from how they appear, sound, look, in short, are sensed by you in your emotional soup at any given moment. That has nothing to do with so-called objective facts, and even less with malicious biais. I feel everyone else took it the same way, and because of that we could all refeel our own stuff along with you. I never noticed anyone come and say ‘Hey, you said the exact opposite 2 days ago, what’s your final story, girl?’, but there were sometimes such contradictions. Sometimes, too, I’d think ‘give the guy a break, here’ or ‘what was so bad about that?’, yet I felt there was no point in bringing such stuff up – there’s no ‘right attitude’, no ‘fair’. What I felt, reading you, were very powerful EMOTIONAL TRUTHS, remarkably well put and that touched me profoundly.

    So give Yourself a break, Sweet Siren. What I’m feeling from your recent posts has perhaps been the draw of your old ‘comfort’ zones (uncomfortable and inadequate as they may have been). Maybe you have reached a temporary plateau, a crossroads or a feeling of being stalled, and these old patterns tempt you with seeming ‘right’ in their familiarity than the still unclear promises of the future and change. Allow yourself more time and a little rest – I feel as though you’ve been going at breakneck speed.

  45.  #45Robin on May 11, 2009 at 9:31 am


    I feel sad to hear that you are feeling bad…I never read your posts as slanderous. I hope you feel better soon, maybe this is a nasty voice trying to beat you up?

    I know that feeling though, I always feel scared that someone I know will read this and tell people, but then I remember that if you are posting about what happened and how YOU feel, you are not slamming someone on the internet-I mentioned that I was gonna post my date experience from Sat. night to a friend and she said, oh you don’t want to slander someone online, and I said, Im not gonna say anything derogatory…Im just gonna talk about my experience…

    I don’t know, my feeling is that if you stick to Rori’s 4 rules, you will automatically not say anything ugly about someone else, and will only be talking about you YOU feel about a given situation…

  46.  #46Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Mercedes, I feel our sexual energy is so preponderant, to ensure the reproduction of the species, that it can’t help but infiltrate and influence our life energy has a whole. First, we are sexuated beings, and our maleness or femaleness colors everything about us, but not uniformly as we all have bits that are more characteristic of the other sex, in an individual kaleîdescope. And it’s not enough for 2 opposites to copulate and produce offspring, the children must be raised to adulthood, which implies attending to everyone’s survival needs over a very long period. So doesn’t this attraction of opposites, which works so well for making babies, feel like a good thing for getting people to cooperate outside the mating game, too? Nature often reuses a winning strategy, and the strength of sexual energy and the existence of myriad sexual combinations, within individuals and groups, just increase the likelihood of good fits and adaptability.

    So that’s how I see the erotic or sexual (Not romantic) pull setting up the attractions and desire to seek satisfaction in the strong relationships necessary to living, especially in highly evolved human life. (Explanation a bit in my head, but I actually feel excited, and sense these notions coursing through my blood.)

  47.  #47Robin on May 11, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Flipper, thats fascinating…Im feeling confused though, could you explain more the last paragraph, please? Im loving this explanations!!! 🙂

  48.  #48Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 11:12 am

    I’ll try. First, I meant all the interdependant relationships, in general, which make living in society feasible. We depend on each other and on society, our natural milieu, to survive. Both our natural and societal milieux are extremely complicated and challenging, demanding a wide variety of talents and adaptations to constant changes over over long periods. Single individuals cannot possibly embody everything it takes to succeed as a species (as amoeba can in their environment). Despite having a common base, everyone is highly diverse, each carrying only parts of the puzzle. In nature, difference very often divides, excludes, repulses, even seeks to dominate or destroy the ‘different other’. So there must be a mechanism for overcoming these tendancies and favoring cooperation and acceptance among widely varying individuals. Voilà – sexual attraction between heterogeneous beings which worked so well to diversify and reinforce complexe life forms through sexual reproduction – seems to have served as the model for creating the urge to come together with scary, unfamiliar, dissimilar people long enough to learn that staying together led to far greater safety, abundance, and just plain survival.

  49.  #49Linmayu on May 11, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Flipper, I have indeed been moving fast as heck. From the minute I really felt I had to move out, I had my mind utterly made up to put him behind me and put as much distance as possible between us. I did a lot of things that have made it even less and less possible that he would ever come back.

    With what’s going on now, I really feel scared to post my thoughts and feelings here. I feel afraid I won’t be understood because I’m pulling back on the circular dating. I don’t want to kiss other men and get turned on by other men right now. It feels good, yes, but it’s also a big distraction from more important things in my life. When I’m out with them, I feel like I’m off track. When I went out with my husband before we got married, I felt that a little bit too, but now I really feel it. And I’ve had so many disappointing experiences with dating in such a short time. Guys I really liked would fall off the face of the planet after a few phonecalls and e-mails, over and over again.

    Right now, I’d rather spend the limited leisure time I have with friends and family who already care for me and who I don’t see enough of, than with guys I don’t even know who I only hope will care for me someday.

  50.  #50Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 11:21 am

    So, we are attracted to what is different and complementary to ourselves, and this is so much more than just those aspects that have to do with romance or reproduction per se.

  51.  #51Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Flipper: I understand and agree with everything you’ve said about attraction and needing to be able to form relationships with others in order to survive. What I struggle with is the part that says it all boils down to SEXUAL attraction. I believe as humans, we are very individual when it comes to sexual attraction…particular if you will. Because of that, we aren’t all having sex with everyone else…some of us even commit for life to one single individual. We, as a species, need sex to survive and it certainly is grained into us, but, we don’t (as far as I can tell) have sexual feelings for everyone we find nice or interesting or funny, etc. We are selective when it comes to that.

    On the other hand, we can develop LOTS of other types of relationships that help us survive…and those relationships have nothing to do with sex or erotic feelings…attraction…yes…erotic feelings..not so much (for me anyway).

    For me, it seems the erotic feelings are for a very few select people in my life. The attractive qualities that make up a person though are wide in range…even if I don’t find that person sexually or erotically attractive and would never consider them in that way, I’m still able to form a wonderful friendship with them.

    When Rori said:

    “The next time you find yourself talking with someone you couldn’t IMAGINE feeling erotically attracted to – a homeless person, a person you might label as “ugly” – or the wrong gender – if you can embrace the truth that you are erotically attracted to that person as well as attracted on intellectual and emotional levels – you will get this so much faster.”

    It’s hard for me to understand. I’ve delt with (to use her example) homeless people on mission trips I’ve been on. I wasn’t sexually attracted to them (and didn’t always find them physically attractive either), but I enjoyed their company and listened to the stories of their lives with fascination and awe. Sexual or erotic attraction?? Not that I can tell (at ALL). I think I could embrace that “truth” if it were there, but seriously…I don’t see it or feel it at all…

    Maybe I’m still a little confused. As a species, we need to have sex with members of the opposite sex to survive. As individuals, we need to form lots of relationships to survive. But…all of those relationships aren’t (in my opinion) based on sexuality or eroticism…

    Not sure how else to look at this one but it certainly is (as I said before) an interesting take on things…

    Much Love,

  52.  #52Daria on May 11, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Linmayu… it sounds like you are in the “rest” phase. This is definitely time by yourself.

    I wanted to remind you that after taking this rest…that “circular dating” is about You and being your open feminine self… and not about hoping a guy you date will come to care for you.

    I know you know this already… just a reminder. I feel triggered a little bit… I feel like it’s definitely important to rest and realize that the times when we feel like this do come after an intense period of transformational emotional activity.

  53.  #53Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 11:53 am

    That’s fine Linmayu, I feel you are sooo perceptive to realize these things about yourself, and well-inspired to listen to your true, deep inner voice. Circular-dating yourself, in fact, by choosing to rebuild a nourishing network and take care of your particular needs at this time which are not romantic. Personally, I believe a divorce is not really in the same category as most romantic breakups, however heartshattering and more these may be. There’s usually just so much more baggage from society, family, etc. I’ve heard that some men are aware enough to find women enviable in their ability to stay out of the fray while they’re allowing themselves to suffer and then mend. I still feel only admiration and gratitude for sharing your process here.

  54.  #54Daria on May 11, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I think what Rori was referring to here is that concept of “sexual energy” as a driving force for our life. Not necessarily conscious sexual energy.

    What she is saying is that when we feel happy, excited to be with someone, that feeling of feeling smily and delighted, that that is also using Erotic energy, although not in a sexual way.

    I have read a lot about “transmuting sexual energy” into creative activities such as painting, singing, dance, etc…

    This is more about what “turns us on” as in “lights us up” and that in order for that to take place sexual energy is activated (probably in our body we Feel it from the same place we would feel ourselves being sexually aroused, although in the latter instance we would be more conscious of it).

  55.  #55Flipper on May 11, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Mercedes, I felt very odd about the word erotic, myself, and that’s why I didn’t use it. I think this partly boils down to semantics and the very loaded character of that word.

    Re-read me where I meant to say that the force, efficiency and nature of our attraction for having sex serves as the template for attraction of any kind. Sexual reproduction (in flowers) came well before the much more complicated versions in animals, and sexualness was so revolutionary and dynamizing that its energy is, for me, the very wellspring not only of further refinements in that sphere, but of the energy of being itself.

    This is a caricature, but perhaps remembering how guys manage to sexualize just about Anything, all the time, will help get a picture of how sexualness underpins so much, including but not limited to ‘sexiness/erotic feelings’ we use to tap into this greater life force – perhaps this is one area where men have a more direct feel for sexual energy’s relevance to everything. Like the mathematically perfect spiral form which infuses the whole universe from snail shells to the Milky Way and beyond in both directions, I feel there’s a connectedness within creation that remains to fuel an ongoing energy exchange.

  56.  #56Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Here are more of the words Rori used:

    “In other words – if you like being around a person – there is a part of you that feels erotically attracted to them. It doesn’t mean you find this person appropriate for a relationship, and it doesn’t mean you feel romantically attracted to them. It just means you feel sexually, erotically attracted.”

    I wish Rori would step in here because it sounds to me like she’s suggesting that every person who’s company we enjoy we are erotically (sexually) attracted to. So, even if we know we don’t want to date them and we know they aren’t right for us and we know we’re not physically attracted to them and we know our sisters or brothers or children or friends are married to them but we LIKE them and enjoy their company, it means we (on some level) want to have sex with them and are turned on by them (sexually).

    The reason I don’t understand this is because, as I said, no matter how hard I search, I am NOT turned on by all of my friends. I don’t feel it. I’m selective with that. And…just because someone doesn’t turn me on, that doesn’t mean I don’t think of them as a friend and want to spend time with them.

    Rori…can you explain deeper? I understand the genetics of sexual attraction…but…there are ALL kinds of attraction levels so where does the idea that ALL attraction is erotic or derives from sexual energy come from? I even did a google search and I’m not finding much out there that explains this theory…


    Much Love,

  57.  #57Daria on May 11, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    I think Rori IS suggesting that if “we LIKE them and enjoy their company, it means we (on some level) want to have sex with them and are turned on by them (sexually).”

    That’s why she says this is difficult to embrace.

    This seems to me to relate to a more “Eastern” concept of sexuality, maybe Tantric, where sexual energy has a much BROADER interpretation than that strictly used for sex.

  58.  #58Linmayu on May 11, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Daria, thanks for your reminder. Actually, I hadn’t already known that; I had been thinking that circular dating was somehow the way to “get” Mr. Right–just throw all the men against the wall and keep the one that sticks.

    I realized that actually I did it exactly right. You date a bunch of guys until one claims you forever. In my case, that’s what happened, except the guy’s name is God. I realized that no human partner could ever possibly give me everything I want and need from a relationship. Sex every night with the handsomest man on the planet wouldn’t provide the deep fulfillment I’m longing for. (Well, maybe if he also married me, told me he loved me and brought me flowers every day, gave me everything I asked for, and we never, ever had a fight.)

    I feel scared, though, to rely on God. I feel like that means committing to singleness FOR LIFE. I feel scared to trust Him to bring me the things I want and need. And these feelings and fears are quite possibly beyond the scope of this blog.

    You are right, it is resting time. And when I come back into the game, it’ll be more on the “dating myself” side of things.

  59.  #59Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Thanks Daria. If you & I are right & that’s what she’s saying…I’m pretty sure I’m not going to be able to get my hands around that one. Being turned on is a wonderful thing, don’t get me wrong, but to suggest that happens to me every time I meet someone I like seems to diminish the feelings I have for that special man who really does turn me on & it REALLY diminishes the very special feelings I have for my friends, children, etc. I know she’s not saying its the same thing but in my eyes it doesn’t even come from the same realm.

    Much Love,

  60.  #60Daria on May 11, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    I just felt something really interesting.

    I was feeling tired because last nite I stayed up playing a fun video game (a girl oriented called DinerTown Tycoon where I run my own restaurant). I felt really interested in the game and it felt engaging to the point that I was actually taking notes and creating paper spreadsheets to plan my ingredient purchases for the next day, etc…

    I played this game from 3 pm to 4 AM! And I woke up at around my regular time of waking up 10:30 Am.

    I like sleeping over 8 hours, although I read recently (and believe) that our bodies have 4 hour sleep cycles and were we to sleep just 1 of these cycles our body would be fine as long as some time during the day we slept another cycle.

    Well I felt tired and grumpy waking up thinking about a man I had had a crush on that slowly seemed to lose interest in me.

    I felt pretty icky and hot and stuff and grumpy and tight and all kinds of symptoms I feel when I miss sleep (usually much worse than today).

    On to the goodstuff:

    So I decided to try the Expand Myself Meditation. Actually, first I tried to use an e-letter tool from a few weeks ago, where we “melt around a stuck feeling” in our body, notice where the energy “wants to go” and let it flow down into our pelvis, where we let it “hang out.” Now to me my pelvis area feels like an immense dark underground lake. It feels peaceful, mysterious, infine, like any feeling that would get down there would be swallowed up, soothed, become part of the universe of this lake.

    The thing is, i usually feel most of my feelings in my head area, jaw and mouth especially. So I was trying to melt them and I melted my head down into my mouth, and my jaw melted, and realized vaguely that my throat area was constricting them from melting, tried to relax that, got to my Heart, which instantly went “oh no” and jumped like a rabbit or a deer. This is all pretty usual, especially the feeling when I get to my heart.

    This time somehow a part of me was observing the process and realized that I FELT SCARED. I felt compassion for my poor scared self (I felt like a trembling little girl) and told myself I love myself and I really felt myself relax.

    Then I tried to go lower and relax around my next tense area, my solar plexus, but I realized I was still tense in my mouth. This turned out to be my tongue. I had to spend a lot of time trying to “sink in” to the tip of my tongue, which proved challenging. It seemed to not want to let go, it connected to my right shoulder and down to my right thigh. As I continued paying attention to the tight area, after awhile it began to tingle and kind of vibrate (which instantly felt surprising weird scary and almost made me lose my relaxation) but as I continued to lean back energetically and allow this to happen I felt the Blocked tension in my tongue wiggle and tingle and vibrate and basically unblock.

    I then still felt my throat kind of tight, although only vaguely, and at this point felt very very relaxed. I then looked for how my tummy felt since Rori said the tummy might be jumping around as I let the feelings sink, and to let it Expand.

    At this point I started to let it Expand, and realized that My Hands also were holding a lot of Tension Energy. I tried imagining that my fingers stretched long long long, remembering how Rori said to “touch the wall of the room” then outside, then the mountains, the sea, etc. in while melting and floating away at the same time in The Sensual Meditation. Now my fingers weren’t exactly pointing outwards, but imagining myself expanding with my attention turned out to be awesome.

    I realized that I am upstairs in a house, with the lagoon to my right, and houses to teh left, and expanding even more, with the ocean to my right and behind me and all the way to my left, like a semicircle, and I am kind of on a pedestal up here in the upstairs of the house, and in front of me the mountains. (I kinda imagined my bearings as I knew them and had to take some time to really “work it out” as to the location of the ocean and mountains… I still want to double check by looking outside).

    The amazing experience goes on:

    As I stretched my attention to the mountains, (you can imagine how magical and Goddeslike it felt to feel myself backed by the ocean and facing the mountains, relaxing by myself in between), I could feel the mountains, I could feel a dry, desertlike quality to them, to the plants there, I could feel some animals like desert-like foxes, and I could contrast them to my mountains of my childhood, which I can Feel because I believe they are part of me… dark green, lush, with cold springs, etc…

    So these California mountains, I felt sad because I didn’t feel like they were a part of my heart, they felt foreign with their dryness, and I want to feel at Home. So I followed with my attention the fox, seeking to love and invite connection… and the MOUNTAINS TALKED TO ME. They said “Hi Child, thank you for coming to APPRENTICE WITH US. Then another mountain said… this child is a woman… the other one said… yes, I can see she is a woman, a young woman… not yet a mother… a beautiful woman… she is drying (hurting her health?) herself a little…

    Not sure about the last part it may not have been in words… they were referring to the wrinkles under my eyes…

    I was given something important: I have a purpose here, that is this place I am now at… I am APPRENTICING.

    And right now as I wrote this I am realizing a purpose for my wrinkles… they are showing my adaptation and learning of the “dry” quality of this land here

  61.  #61Daria on May 11, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Mercedes I was having a hard time getting around that too, as you can see from my earlier posts. I felt better when Gina and others voiced some of my concerns.

    I’m still not feeling totally “in tune” with this one, and I have decided not to trouble myself with it by thinking, and just to focus on feeling, allowing, and enjoying myself to be turned on BY MYSELF around anyone, whoever they are.

    I DO HOPE too that Rori will clarify and expand on this and help us Feel Good with it.

  62.  #62Robin on May 11, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Feeling triggered that you may NEVER be able to move out of the ‘friendship’ category with a man you have feelings for….

    Timing is something we don’t have complete control over, so Im not gonna blame myself for it not ‘working’ with my ‘ex’, but there were so many extraordinary moments of connection, and I miss that, and Im not feeling it with these other guys, and I feel SAD seeing him with other women…it would feel better if I knew he was doing things on purpose to get under my skin, but to think that he is indifferent to me, that I will ALWAYS be a friend makes me feel incredibly sad….

    I love myself so much more than I used to, my self-esteem has done a 180, and yet it may feel this way sometimes until I meet someone who can really love me, but for now, I feel sad…

  63.  #63Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Daria: I agree…it is a good thing to be able to allow yourself to be turned on no matter where you are. I love that. For me, it’s not about when, where or who’s there…it’s about who I feel that way about (aside from myself of course…I almost never have a problem turning myself on anymore) and why I feel that way…not about the fact/opinion that the feeling came from someone I care about in a totally platonic way.

    What appears to be being said here is that there is no such thing as a purely platontic feeling for someone…hmmm…not sure about that one. I’m open to the opinions of others (and this appears to be an opinion rather than a factual thing…) so I’m okay with Rori or anyone else feeling this way. It’s not exactly a trigger…just…I don’t know…if we take it as an opinion or a way of looking at things’s different and not for me but I’m hearing it. If we try to take it as a fact…as in scientific fact that all attraction is erotic and sexualy by it’s origin…then…I have a little trouble with that.

    Where are you Rori? LOL…looks like we need someone to guide us here… 🙂

    Oh…PS Daria…I like your meditation. I’m not really good at visualizations and some of Rori’s exercises but I’m certainly fascinated by them and admire those who can really GET it…you seem to be a pro!

    Much Love,

  64.  #64Daria on May 11, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Linmayu… nice… I feel glad you’re resting.

    Here’s a quote from today’s e-letterwhere Rori says kinda the same thing:

    “We’ve all been taught that “dating” is about
    finding the relationship of your dreams – and it
    just doesn’t work that way – and so we’ve all been
    hugely disappointed. Dating is actually what we DO
    that makes it POSSIBLE for us to get our Mr. Right
    – and my new Targeting Mr. Right program will show
    you exactly how to do it.”

    What I get from this is that DATING is what we DO to transform ourselves into Goddesses that are able to have the close intimate relationships we want. That’s why we date all men that feel good and not only ones with relationship potential… because we are practicing our “authenticity skills.” That’s why also we look for the message and that’s why we can circular date even when married without even going on a date at all… because we are building our skills at intimacy and romance with other human beings, because those SKILLS are what we want and will come in handy when the Man for us shows up. And the Man or many men for us will show up when we have those skills, big time, because Goddesses Attract.

    I feel that a relationship with God does not Necessarily exclude a romantic relationship with a man, unless you Personally choose to focus your energy in a way that does exclude it (because you want to).

    That choice is personally up to each of us,

    the way we choose anything we want, and the way we choose any relationship in our lives. Also there is a choice at any moment to change our previous choices. I feel glad you are looking for what resonates with you most.

    I feel a sorting out, “circular wind-like” kind of feel reading your comments, if that makes any sense. It’s as if I see a wind blowing papers or leaves around you, rearranging, and eventually all will feel clear, synergetic and be calm again in a New better feeling place.

  65.  #65Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Robin: My bf and I moved on from a friendship where I had feelings for him. Difference is, he had feelings for me too, we were both fighting them. I feel the key here is circular dating. You don’t want to give your heart to a man (a man that you have put a face and a name with) if he’s put you in friendship category. You need to date and stay as far away from him as possible. That way, if he does have more than just friendship feelings for you, he’ll step up and claim you. If he doesn’t do that, then have faith that the right man WILL. It feels good to be friends with the man you love (at least it feels good to me. My bf is my absolute BEST friend and it makes me love him even more)…but…Rori is right…when a man puts you in that friend role, you can’t get out of it by being his buddy and you CERTAINLY can’t get out of it by being silently loving him and hoping for more.

    Much Love,

  66.  #66Daria on May 11, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    Robin I feel for you and I feel your situation. I feel similarly about this one guy in my past. I have had to change where I hang out (not at our mutual friends houses anymore) and stopped calling him… all over the past 9 months.

    This man was something like the centerpiece of my life… I do have to say that I am no longer feeling so sad about him, or longing so much for those moments of connection that felt so good. I am starting to get a different, much less involved view of our relationship and feeling like I am actually healing.

    However I have not been seeing him at all, even casually… I spent years casually seeing him as a friend and trying to change my feelings all kinds of ways with no success.

    I guess I am recommending no contact with your Ex.

  67.  #67Rori Raye on May 11, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Mercedes and all lovely goddesses, I wrote a long reply and lost it — so I’ll be brief here and perhaps write another post. I actually can say out loud to you that standing here right at this moment “I want to make love to that chair.”Okay, this is a feeling. I’m likely not going to go over and rub myself on that chair. (Though I could, I’m alone in the house right now, no problem, there are no other human beings involved…).

    And yet, anyone who is a teacher of 16-year-olds, and says she has never ever felt erotically attracted to one of them is being dishonest with herself. Same with brothers and sisters and friends and neighbors and uncles and the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, the child, anyone. anyone you actually feel like talking with. Anyone you feel like being with. Anyone whose company you enjoy.

    You may not want to jump into bed with them but there is still an energetic erotic attraction. Yes Eastern, yes Tantric. Erotic is not the same as wanting to have sex. It’s simply an energetic flash of feeling. It’s not the same as wanting to follow through. It’s a component of liking someone. And the more we try to control that, and shut down that feeling, the more tense we get, and the more we want to make rules.

    As human beings we get the bliss of being able to make choices based on being more human than animal. And nevertheless, we are animals. We are mammals. We still have parts of our brain that are very, very primitive. I say embrace everything. Then choose your words. Then choose your actions. But don’t try to control your actions by controlling your feelings. Love, Rori

  68.  #68Rori Raye on May 11, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Daria, Thank you for this beautiful and special post. Love, Rori

  69.  #69Rori Raye on May 11, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Isn’t it lovely, though, Mercedes that things can have varying degrees of intensity? That it’s not all black or white? Perhaps there’s just more gray about everything…Love, Rori

  70.  #70Rori Raye on May 11, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Also, Mercedes, it then, to me, says so much more about what love, romance, commitment is all about. So many components. The pieces are not so much “linked” like in a chain, as connected at all points. Love, Rori

  71.  #71Rori Raye on May 11, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Wow – I just want to write about this for days. For me – the lower chakra begins everything – it’s about the earth, about the “base” – and though it might not be about “sexuality” in it’s full expression – it has a deeply, deeply erotic component. And when you said “selective” – that’s sort of what we’re talking about here. I do not believe it’s possible to want to be with someone in any way without an erotic component – otherwise you’re shutting something down and “selecting.” I believe we spend a lot of our energy resisting this instead of embracing it, and that if we did, we’d open up our energy and our joy a lot. It’s easy to own up to being attracted to a hot guy. It’s not so easy being able to experience being attracted to someone totally inappropriate – even on a simple, energetic level. I actually think there’s an erotic component to being attracted to a beautiful inanimate object. Or a place. So there. Try it for fun, and let me know what you experience. Just a good conversation here to explore. Love, Rori

  72.  #72Daria on May 11, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Hi Rori… Please please do keep writing about this… especially what to do to keep ourselves from shutting down…

    I feel SO Interested and this feels really important.

    I do believe I was just erotically attracted to my cabbage soup!

    Haha… it feels more like ‘delight’ and joy. I guess it feels difficult to get the “sexualness” of that… although I can see it when it comes to people, so maybe it’s just that this energy is fluid flexible and refuses to be clearly pinned down to sexual, or joyful, or etc…

    I am also relating this to my experience with the EFT therapist, who made the semi-flirtatious comment to me and I felt uncomfortable (maybe because I thought it was inappropriate in that context, and also because I did not find him phyisically attractive). I do believe if he was really HOT when I looked at his picture I might have felt differently…

    I really want to practice feeling turned on around men I don’t necessarily find attractive at first sight… this feels really important because I feel worried I am stuck being attracted to only a certain “type.”

    PS thank you for saying my post was beautiful… it certainly felt that way…

    Any ideas on how to help me “melt” the feelings better? And is that normal about the pelvis feeling like a lake? Or am I just not used to Feeling my pelvis.

    It feels SEVERAL times easier to feel tensions and feelings in my head, jaw, mouth area than anywhere in my body… how do I get in touch with all of me?

    Sometimes I try to feel a feeling down more, but when I get to my abdomen the feeling JUMPS back into my face area.

  73.  #73Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Rori: Thanks for responding. I still don’t get it…and maybe get it even less now, but I’m glad you’re responding because I doubt I’m not the only one who can’t embrace this.

    I don’t know what you mean by “Erotic is not the same as wanting to have sex”. The definition of erotic is arousing or satisfying sexual desire. I know that doesn’t mean we’re going to jump on everyone who appears to be erotic to us but…it does mean we WANT to…and I simply don’t want to with everyone I like.

    I don’t understand your reference to not being honest if we can’t admit we’ve been erotically attracted to our brothers and sisters and friends and neighbors, etc. I have NEVER felt erotically attracted to my sister…EVER. I’m sure of it and I’m being honest about that.

    I don’t understand your reference to the chair. I don’t believe (even though I am very happy with my selection of furniture) that I have ever wanted to make love to my chair. Make love ON it? YES…and with my boyfriend…but he’s the one I’m erotically attracted to…not the chair. And I really don’t believe I’m forcing down any feelings to get over my thing for the furniture in the house…

    This is not about me being unwilling here. I did search deep inside myself for this. I didn’t use an inanimate object, instead, I used a friend of mine. A guy friend who I absolutely think the world of. There’s nothing erotic in me where he’s concerned. He’s a friend and if we were both single and if the mood was set and everything was perfect, I still would not so much as kiss him. It’s not like that with us. I don’t have any feelings that even come close to erotic where he’s concerned. Yet, if he were in trouble, I’d be right there because I care about him…I love him…I like him…and it’s all totally platonic.

    It’s not about a varying degree of intensity for me either. Of course, sometimes it is. I’m much more erotically attracted to my boyfriend than any other person in the room, but my senses to others did not die. I am sexually attracted to a lot of people (those I know and those I don’t know – as in Brad Pitt…holy wow!) and some of them aren’t as hot as either Brad or my bf…and yet I still feel a sexual attraction. However, that feeling isn’t there with everyone…it isn’t there with most people…and it isn’t because I’m pushing away or denying feelings.

    “Selective” when it comes to who I’m sexually attracted to is not a conscious decision for me. It just happens. I’m attracted (on any level) or I’m not. It’s not that I’m pushing away or controlling my erotic feelins for my coffee cup…I just don’t have the feeling. Now…can I be turned on in front of the coffee cup? Yes. Did the coffee cup have anything to do with that? Not so much. 🙂

    Oh…and yes…I do tend to make “rules”…so far those “rules” are what my blog is all about. LOL

    I’m a very sexual woman who cherishes that part of me. I love it. I love being turned on. I love feeling sexy. I love feeling like a man thinks I’m sexy. But you…lovely lady…have connected with that on a MUCH deeper level than I ever will.

    Much Love,

  74.  #74Ann on May 11, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Writing this on notepad first maybe I won’t lose it this time. Hubby’s surgery is tomorrow. My
    anxeity level is up so I’m distracting myself by re-reading this post/comments.

    I’ve had a HARD time grasping this post but while reading from my mobile had a aha moment. Thanks
    Rori for commenting please keep sharing with us about this.

    I feel we’d all agree we’re sexually beings. And that sex under normal circumstances feels good. I was having a problem with the words erotic attraction toward certain people. But them Rori was talking about erotic energy, how it’s a part of us. I hope I can explain what I’m getting at here.

    I was having problems with the word erotic(meaning sexually) being focused toward certain people.
    Whenever I’m with someone man, woman or child and I’m enjoying myself and I feel a connection to them.
    If I’m truly connected to all parts of me then that erotic energy will be there to. That doesn’t mean I feel anything sexual toward them that simply means all of me is present.

    When I’m connected with my sexual(erotic) part then anything I choose to let can heat me up. Example
    I feel Rori is connected with her sexual energy so she can look at a chair and feel herself turned on.
    Not necessarily by the chair but maybe feeling how good that chair would feel against her body. Rori help

    Think about it have you ever seen a commerical or movie and the female is eating a strawberry in front of
    a man. She’s really getting into it almost making out with the berry, she’s in all her energies. She’s not actually making out with the strawberry just letting her energy go toward it.

    Now have you every hug a family member or friend and felt truly connected. You could feel their energy coming to you and vice versa. Now if we’ve embraced our erotic energy it’s there to. This DOES NOT mean we’re having any sexual thoughts just meaning we’re fully there.

    At least that’s what I’m getting so far. Rori please let me know if this is what you’re trying to say. If it is I know I’m not fully connected with my sexual energy.

    BTW Daria I loved your visualization. I hope to learn from you how to get my tension unstuck.

  75.  #75Mercedes on May 11, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    Ann: I hope all goes well with your husband. You are in my prayers.

    I wish Rori was simply talking about having erotic feelings AROUND people…that I can grasp. But…her exact words are “I want to make love to the chair”…not “I feel turned on and the chair would be a good way to take care of myself”. Also…she says we cannot have a platonic friendship without feeling erotic sexual attraction. Not erotic energy around them…but erotic sexual attraction TOWARDS them. She says if a woman is a teacher and can’t admit to having erotic attraction towards those 16 year old kids then she is not being honest with herself. She’s not saying a teacher can feel aroused during class, she’s saying the teacher feels erotic attraction towards teenagers or she’s lying… Personally, I look at a 16 year old boy and I see a 16 year old boy…he doesn’t in any way turn me on. I prefer men…not boys and I don’t have an attraction other than a platonic one towards those kids.

    I can’t buy into this. Sorry. It seems to me like the mindset of a child molester. It sounds like we are all to believe that they’re not sick, they’re just like us only we know how to control our actions and they don’t.

    I’m telling you ladies, I am totally honest that I can feel erotic or turned on when children are in the room, but they have NOTHING to do with that feeling…it’s the same as being erotically turned on while I’m in the room with a coffee cup but the cup has NOTHING to do with that feeling.

    I have friends. I have no erotic feelings or sexual feelings or erotic or sexual attraction towards them. Rori is saying I’m lying to myself and not allowing myself to feel all of my feelings. If that’s the case, why do we even have the word platonic? If we are to believe that all of us are like this then the word should not exist because those feelings do not exist.

    Maybe too much vodka…maybe it’s because I was a victim of child molestation…I don’t know, but I DO know that no child or piece of furniture has ever turned me on.

  76.  #76Linmayu on May 11, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    I feel erotic, energetic attraction to so, so many people including people for whom such attraction is COMPLETELY inappropriate. I mean, what I felt for my husband when we were in love is the same thing that I feel for God, my relatives, my friends, cats, plants, and certain of my co-workers. What keeps it “platonic” between such individuals and myself is my mind, my decisions, my moral code. I’m not going to have sex with my cat. But I can’t distinguish between my feelings for the cat and my feelings for a lover. They feel the same to me.

  77.  #77Linmayu on May 11, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Having these feelings has always been a HUGE struggle in my life, from earliest childhood. At my core, I love everyone, and I want to play with everyone, and yes, I want to be one with everyone. But it’s led to a lot of inappropriate actions on my part. I always worry that I’ll be called a molester, that I’m overstepping people’s boundaries if I touch them. So in practice I end up being more withdrawn and introverted than most. It’s not my nature; it’s a survival mechanism.

    There’s also the other side of the attraction coin–there are people I feel energetically repelled by. But very few. Even the smelly bum on the street has something that draws me in.

  78.  #78Tracy on May 12, 2009 at 1:24 am

    I feel confused but intrigued by the recent posts…
    Given my limited experience with my sexuality its interesting to learn all these new ideas….

  79.  #79Robin on May 12, 2009 at 7:16 am

    Daria, I’m TOTALLY relating to how you feel-my feelings always show up and feel tense right behind my eyes and in my throat, I get the feeling down to my stomach, and it tries to jump back up to my head/throat. My nasty voice(1 of them!) always says, ‘you can’t do that, you can’t move the feeling to your pelvis, its not gonna work, it gonna come back up, don’t even try..;’, same thing when I drop thoughts….I have to go through it 2-3 times sometimes before it really gets into my pelvis.I have also noticed my neck and shoulders hold a lot of tension/feelings…

    I couldn’t put a word to what my pelvis reminds me of, just vast and calming, but an underground lake, tha’t great, and it just sums it up really well….

  80.  #80Flipper on May 12, 2009 at 8:05 am

    Ann and Daria’s sharing their experiences and intuitions help make things more understandable for me. I think we’ll just never ‘get it’ through intellectual thought alone, and getting hung up on words. Words and ‘logic’ have their place, but they are not experience nor reality. Some things that exist can only be felt or devined, cannot be thought and must not be judged. I feel the ideas of child molestation, sexual acts or even fantasies have next to nothing to do with the love-making and sexualness we’re talking about here – I feel I’m in a whole different dimension from everyday sexuality. The notion of connectedness of Everything at all points feels helpful to me, and Ann’s “…if we’ve embraced our erotic energy it’s there, too. This does not mean we’re having any sexual thoughts just meaning we’re fully there”. And maybe Rori means if it’s there, passively energizing us and everything else, we can also actively touch into it to dynamize ourselves and our relationships.

  81.  #81Rori Raye on May 12, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Linmayu, Thank you for this comment – so very deep and interesting – and here’s my take:

    What I hear is that you have challenges with “space.” It may be difficult for you to tell where you end, and another person begins. I can see this when I’m out and around. At the check out stand at the market, the person behind me will step way to close to me, and when I’m signing my credit card paper, they’re just …too close.

    I believe this is an innate thing in many ways, something you’ve been taught, a habit – and also something based on need. When we don’t get what we need – basic love and affection and touching, we instinctively reach out for it. Instead of shutting yourself down – try this – because your ability to FEEL this is very, very POWERFUL and will take you far – Try becoming deeply AWARE of this feeling you have to get close, to touch, to open your heart, to let the other person in – and just stand there. Stand perhaps a few inches further back than you want to, and just stand there and lean back, but allow your ENERGY to open up all through your body, imagine you’re TRANSPARENT, and the person can see into you. See if you can feel the energy exchange between you, and yet maintain the physical space. Experiment, and let me know how it feels. Love, Rori

  82.  #82Rori Raye on May 12, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Linmayu, I personally think this is brilliant, fabulous, and must feel wonderful. Please feel that this is amazing, it is. Rori

  83.  #83Rori Raye on May 12, 2009 at 10:05 am

    Mercedes – does it matter, really – what it is that contributes to your being turned on? Is being turned on in someone’s presence all that different from wanting to share that feeling with a person place or thing? Certainly not ALL the 16 year olds – only the ones she likes to be around. Same with anyone or anything. If the energy feels good to you – I believe it is erotically charged. And if you can say Yes to that…then you can manage it. Shutting it down is not managing it. All fathers have to handle the erotic charge with their daughters. They shut down around them – they feel they have to – it feels impossible to manage. But the way to handle this, as with everything, is to acknowledge it, and then dhoose how to manage the energy. When we cannot acknowledge and feel, when we judge our impulses – that’s when they get out of control, flood our thoughts, turn to obsessions, and cause us to do self-destructive things, or hurt others instead. Love, Rori This is a big issue, and for survivors of trauma, as you are Mercedes…it’s even more intense. I know as a survivor of violent crime myself, though thankfully as an adult, and my heart just goes out to you for suffering such vulnerability as a child, working through those traumatic fight/flight/freeze responses is a different way of managing impulses, feelings and energy. Rori

  84.  #84Angel on May 12, 2009 at 10:07 am

    I have been in a relationship with a man for 1 year and 2 months.He is a good guy and I am in love with him.However he is legally separated but by law still married to someone else.Every time i mention him getting a divorce he becomes defensive he says i am the one he loves and he is committed to me.A divorce doesn’t matter to him.Its only a piece of paper.I grew up with different values I am divorced and free to be with him.Needless to say I am very uncomfortable with the fact my boyfriend is still married to someone else.Am i wrong in feeling this way ?I just don’t know what to do.

  85.  #85Rori Raye on May 12, 2009 at 10:07 am

    You’ve got it, Ann. And you and your husband are in my thoughts…you are amazing…and I look forward to hearing how well things went. Love, Rori

  86.  #86Rori Raye on May 12, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Mercedes – you seem to me to be one hot chick…Love, Rori

  87.  #87Mercedes on May 12, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Rori: This whole theory of yours scares me to death because it’s exactly how molesting children is justified. It’s justified this way by the one’s doing it and by those other adults who allow it to happen by not saying anything. Most of them will say that it’s normal and everyone has these urges. I know from experience that we don’t all have these urges. Most of us aren’t shutting down or pushing away impulses…they simply aren’t there for us. Usually those doing it and justifying it are those who have been abused themselves. It was justified this same way (either by themselves to cope or by others who let it happen) when they were young.

    It DOES matter very much what contributes to adults being turned on. If we are getting sexually aroused by the children in our presence then we need to get help before we hurt someone and simply acknowledging our urges and feeling our feelings is not going to be enough. Being turned on when a child is in the room is VERY VERY VERY different than wanting to share that experience with them. Your words are killing me here. When you say “Is being turned on in someone’s presence all that different from wanting to share that feeling with a person place or thing?” It’s what I’ve heard in advocate court when a molester is justifying his or her actions. They really belive that it’s perfectly fine to want to share their arousal with the child in the room. It’s not perfectly fine and it’s not even normal.

    I didn’t say ALL 16 year olds. I said “ALL Teachers” (using your words) and that also isn’t true. I never taught school, but I did teach teenagers for several years at church and I can tell you, no matter how great those kids were to be around, I never once felt an erotic attraction towards one of them and I never once felt an erotic attraction because of one of them.

    Energy that feels good is not all (based on science) erotically charged, so I don’t understand where your belief comes from. You’re telling us how YOU feel (and that’s really cool…you should be able to admit to all of your feelings regardless of how I or anyone else feels about them) but…you’re telling us that we ALL feel this way. That ALL teachers feel this way. That ALL fathers feel this way. It’s not true and you can’t possibly know that just because you do EVERYONE does.

    We’re not talking about me shutting down here. I feel my feelings very powerfully and address them. The fact is I do not feel inside of me the way you feel inside of you. It’s not there. Even when I look at old high school yearbooks and see the guys that I was erotically attracted to at that time, I can’t help but laugh. Nothing about those pictures is erotic. They look like teenage boys. When I was young, yes, they turned me on. Now…I see children in those faces.

    I’m not a person who judges her impulses either. Even though you might have those impulses, not everyone does and it feels awful to hear you put us all in the same bucket. When I have impulses, I deal with them. Child molesters don’t usually judge their impulses either…they justify them. This sounds a lot like justifying that stuff. Saying it’s okay because EVERYONE feels that way is putting EVERYONE in a box….a box that isn’t where EVERYONE wants to be and CERTAINLY isn’t where we all are. Feel what you feel Rori, but please, please don’t try to tell us that because you feel a certain way that all of the rest of us do. It’s not true and it’s not fair to categorize everyone that way. It’s like saying we’re all capable of murder it’s just that most of us acknowledge our feelings and impulses and control them. I don’t believe that. Some people have those feelings and impulses and others don’t. It’s not fair to tell us all that we feel that way, we just can’t see it and we need to embrace the truth that we’re all murderers inside.

    I can’t imagine that I have any more to say on this subject. The fact that a post is out here that legally tells us all it’s okay to feel erotically and sexually attracted toward children and that it’s normal and that we all feel that way should be speaking volumns without my commentary anyway.

  88.  #88Daria on May 12, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    Hmm… I feel judged… it seems a lot of people on the post have shared feeling the way Rori says… I feel like we’re being dismissed or accused of being abnormal weirdos…

    I feel glad for Rori’s post because it does start to touch on something I struggle with in my psyche, that is this about child molesters. A big part of me wants to love all people and believe that we are all good beings that we can all be empathized with, and yet I was having trouble with the idea of the child molester. Part of me is very warrior like and was thinking that I should kill them all.

    This is helping to put me back on the loving all human beings (including those that are sick) and to see these people as sick and perhaps being able to be healed… I still feel very triggered by this…

    I can see how what Rori says … that when people DENY and JUDGE these feelings they can grow into obsession and make them sick… perhaps that’s how they become child molesters…

    I too have felt uncomfortable for example when my godkids have grabbed my breasts and I felt weird and like a molester… and worried about it…

    I think Justifying done by molesters is different than the feelings human beings have… different in that they are sick and are not managing their energy in a healthy way, and using the ‘universal attraction’ we are talking about here to COVER UP for their sickness…

    I’m feeling kinda shaky with anger inside…

    I believe humans are capable of being murderers… I know I am… and this gray area is huge… we have so much power… feeling scared of our power is perhaps what can drive us crazy to use it…

    A lot of people would commit murder I bet if lets say their family was attacked and their children put in danger…

    A lot of people commit murder for principles or because it’s part of their lifestyle… and I know many people that live this way

    A lot of people commit murder because it’s what they are expected to do… for example military in a war

    Many people vote for the death penalty…

    Some people commit murder over pride, anger, desperation in love, fear and other intense imotions…

    Some commit murder because they are sick

    The list goes on…

    That’s not to say that all people are Willing to commit murder. That’s when our choices, and a whole different type of power comes in, to manage our power.

  89.  #89Mercedes on May 12, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    I never used the phrase “abnormal weirdos”…I actually said I think Rori should be able to admit to her feelings no matter how I or anyone else feels about it.

    I’m saying to her that I don’t feel that way at all and I don’t appreciate being put into a category that tells me I do feel that way and that everyone else does too.

    I think you should be able to come here and say you are capable of murder. I don’t believe I should be told that I fit into that category when I don’t.

    I think we can justify anything anytime. I don’t justify it and don’t want to be told I have to or I’m not being honest with myself.

    I’ve felt judged here a bit too on this but I remembered what Rori said to me the last time I posted that I felt judged. Here’s what she said:

    “If you’re feeling judged – you’re judging. Period. That’s how it works.”

    If everyone else here feels an erotic attraction toward children and furniture then I’m certainly not going to be able to change that…wouldn’t even try. But…the key is the words “everyone ELSE” and not “EVERYONE”. I’m perfectly willing to stand alone on this and be the only one here who doesn’t feel this way because I absolutely without a doubt do not feel that way and I will not be characterized in a way that doesn’t fit me. “ALL teachers” don’t feel this way. I’ve taught teenagers and I don’t feel this way. So…maybe there are teachers who feel this way. I’m not one of them so clearly ALL teachers don’t feel this way.

    I don’t have to feel a certain way just because a relationship coach told me I had to and told me I do and told me everyone does. She’s not in my heart, she’s not in my body and she cannot tell me what my feelings are.

    The subject of so many of Rori’s tools is “authenticity”. She talks a lot about being authentic and feeling your feelings and really getting into what’s going on inside of you. And then this. Then…we hear that everyone feels the same way and that everyone is sexually and erotically attracted to everyone and everything they like. I’m here to say, if I’m allowed to be authentic too…that I do not fit into that and my feelings of attraction toward others comes from my heart, not my sexual and erotic desires.

  90.  #90DocK on May 12, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    I feel confused. I feel like something important Rori posted got lost in the translation. She said

    “You may not want to jump into bed with them but there is still an energetic erotic attraction. Yes Eastern, yes Tantric. Erotic is not the same as wanting to have sex. It’s simply an energetic flash of feeling. It’s not the same as wanting to follow through. It’s a component of liking someone. And the more we try to control that, and shut down that feeling, the more tense we get, and the more we want to make rules.”

    Most importantly that “erotic is NOT the same as wanting to have sex.”

    I remember being young and the phrase “turned on” which didn’t mean sexually. It just meant that you could get so caught up in sharing a moment, a conversation, an idea or an ideal, a laugh a whatever that you felt something excited WITHIN yourself. I know that I have had that feeling talking with a female friend or male friend and not being SEXUALLY attracted but just so CONNECTED to her or him at that moment. Same with maybe sitting on the floor with a child and coloring in a coloring book with him/her. Just giggling and sharing. I think it is about being MOVED internally, feeling touched by something special.

    Rori has counseled women abused as adults (rape) and as children (incest, molestation) and she would never be suggesting that wanting to hurt, touch, molest a child or anyone else is OK.

  91.  #91DocK on May 12, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Also to add, I am not saying that anyone WAS saying that Rori WOULD be saying that is OK to hurt a child or justify child molestation – I just feel that her emphasis on erotic as NOT meaning wanting to have sex or “act on it” is a critical element of her various postings here or that any sick person out there should take what she has said as a justification for anything.

    Anyway, I know that Rori will speak for herself as she has written herein this blog and add to what she has said already. think that will help. : )

  92.  #92Robin on May 12, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    My interpretation was that our erotic attraction and our heart attraction are very, very closely related , which is why we get so confused with men who say they want to be ‘friends’ but act like they are more-like the ‘Soup’ of emotions, they are all interconnected; like the soup and our emotions-being a friend is essentially the same as lover in many ways, there’s such a thin line between them…and ingoring 1 cuts you off from the others…

    “Erotic is NOT the same as wanting to have sex.”
    That’s important-certainly if someone wants to hurt or molest a child, they need help-but the description of an “energetic flash of feeling” is what makes it so closely related to attraction of the heart-and I don’t feel its the same as wanting to act on it

    Sexual Predators often use Cognitive Distortions to justify their actions, ie. they do not take into account the effect their actions will have on another, and are overwhelmingly suffering from other mental disorders as well…all of these manifest themselves in a child molester

  93.  #93Mercedes on May 12, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Dock: I agree. It’s a CONNECTION and it’s NOT sexual. Rori disagrees with me. She says it IS sexual and erotic. Disagreeing is not uncommon for Rori and me. I love hearing her point of view for the most part (although this hit a nerve) but we don’t always agree.

    One way that the two of us don’t agree (and I am a logical person and a factual person as well as a feeling person so that might be part of why we don’t agree) is that line that you quoted:

    “Erotic is not the same as wanting to have sex”.

    She calls it an “energetic flash of feeling”

    I did address this. The definition of the word is this:

    “Arousing or satisfying sexual desire.” Worded almost the exact same way in several dictionaries.

    That’s not a flash of energy. It’s a sexual desire.

    I so much agree with your take on this. These connections are wonderful and meaningful and amazing.

    I take the stand that they are not erotic or sexual.

    Rori doesn’t.

    Again…she and I don’t always agree but have come to know that through several of her posts and my comments. We talked about how if she had to delete something I wrote that I would understand. I know myself well enough to know I can be opinionated and outspoken…even on someone else’s blog and that they have the right to censor me.

    I’m not saying she would condone anything as far as molesting or hurting a child. What I’m saying is that when she says we all have those feelings and we need to acknowledge them then control our actions, I totally disagree. We don’t all have those feelings. Some do (I’ve known that for years as I too am a counselor of rape, incest and abuse well as a survivor myself). I don’t have those feelings. Not at all. My problem with this whole thing is putting me into a category where I don’t belong and telling others (anyone reading here) that it’s normal to have them…we all do…and we just need to accept our truth. When it comes to how I feel, she’s wrong. Those types of feelings of attraction toward children (or inanimate objects for that matter) do not exist in me.

  94.  #94DocK on May 12, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    OK – got it!! cool banter within this blog : )

    VERY stimulating (but not in an erotic way) ; ~ )

  95.  #95Daria on May 12, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Hmmm… I feel stumped.

    If we don’t all have them, If they’re not normal…

    that would mean that me and others having them would be abnormal…

    and I still feel like I’m being accused of being an abnormal weirdo… someone that people who don’t feel these urges would NOT be able to empathize with.

    Especially feels bad when reading that someone knows that Some people Do have these feelings from counseling molestation victims: I.e… some people who molest others have these feelings.

    Sooo. I feel like that’s saying that some people including myself are predisposed to possibly molesting people.

    And that doesn’t feel good.

    I feel sad.

    Also I don’t believe it… and that feels better.


  96.  #96Daria on May 12, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    BTW the feeling really does feel like “a flash of energy…” I can particularly see how this is with people like bums, etc… and I see how Rori says that we shut this feeling down…

    it feels like an Opening… it has an erotic Component…

    it does not feel like sexual desire in the way I would feel when I’m about to have sex…or fantasize about sex.

    It feels like a quick Opening Flash, that opens all of me including my sexuality.

  97.  #97Daria on May 12, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    More :

    It would feel bad to hear people say they feel a certain way… and to think “well I’ve never felt this way.”

    I might feel worried that I hadn’t noticed this feeling, I might seek to empathize, or I might feel really upset… in which case I would be feeling Triggered by something underneath this.

    When I hear:

    “I don’t want to be put in this category… of people who feel this way…”

    I WANT to be in YOUR category… the category that now seems Better, because otherwise why wouldn’t you want to be in mine…

    But I CAN’T be in your category because you don’t want to be in a category With Me… and that feels like being left out… which feels bad and triggering

    on top of that I feel bad because the category I feel left behind in includes people who Hurt Children, and that feels scary and bad

    What comes up for me is that the idea of CATEGORIES is not working well here…

    I feel glad that we can say clearly how we feel and don’t. There’s no categorizing necessary…when someone generalizes saying “All people do this,”… it’s fine to say “I do not.”

    Wow that is interesting! Someone does not… we don’t have to put this someone in a different category… we can explore how they feel and include them with us. Hopefully they too can fully explore how they feel, especially when they Seem really triggered by the issue.

    I do empathize with you not feeling this way, and what comes up for me trying to do that is a Feeling of being very Triggered by this topic…

    I know that at one very recent time I too would have said No Way Do I feel Like This… and meant it…

    Trying to empathize with what Rori was describing led me to recognize certain instances when perhaps, I did feel liek this, and then as other people chimed in, I felt freer and freer allowing myself to consider that this was perhaps what I have been feeling…

  98.  #98Mercedes on May 12, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Ok…I’m not accusing anyone of anything. I’m not trying to make anyone feel bad about anything and I’m not saying I don’t want to be in a category with anyone here.

    I’m saying I don’t want to be put in a category that says “everyone has sexually erotic feelings about children and inanimate objects”. So…Rori…nobody else here…just Rori…please understand that not everyone does and many people who do need help. I’m here to help the children when those people who DO need help don’t get it.

    Daria: I counsel the victims…not the people who hurt them. That takes away the empathy factor. I wish I could empathize with people who are like that…I can’t…I never will be able to. As long as children are hurting, I’m going to speak out for them and I’m not going to justify feelings of an erotic, sexual nature where children are concerned. There is no empathy here for that. None in my heart. None.

    You said: “Especially feels bad when reading that someone knows that Some people Do have these feelings from counseling molestation victims: I.e… some people who molest others have these feelings.”

    I do know people have those feelings but asking me to empathize because I’m aware of this since I counsel the victims is like…well…I can’t compare it to anything. It’s way too much to ask for.

    There’s no empathy here, in my heart for people who hurt children…there never will be.

    When you say “I might feel worried that I hadn’t noticed this feeling, I might seek to empathize, or I might feel really upset… in which case I would be feeling Triggered by something underneath this.”

    …that’s how you feel…not me. I feel grateful I’ve never experienced this feeling. Really, really grateful.

    I feel like I’m continually being baited here into defending myself by having to say over and over and over again that Rori is wrong when she says “everyone” has these feelings. I feel like I’m being baited into defending myself when I keep having to say I don’t have sexual attractions toward children.

    I’m done here. I don’t have the feelings expressed. I hope to God I never do. I’m going to go to my chair that I love so much and I’m NOT going to make love to it or even want to.

    bye all,

  99.  #99Flipper on May 12, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    And what about dreams? Isn’t that where we do experience all the impossible deeds, feelings, ideas, relationships, especially the ones we could never ever consciously accept, forgive or carry out ?

  100.  #100Linmayu on May 12, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    The way I see it is this: we don’t all have blue eyes, and we don’t all have the same emotional/erotic wiring either. No one needs to be considered abnormal; both are normal just as blue eyes and brown wyws are normal.

  101.  #101Daria on May 12, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    oops I feel misunderstood:

    Quoting myself: “and I still feel like I’m being accused of being an abnormal weirdo… someone that people who don’t feel these urges would NOT be able to empathize with.

    Especially feels bad when reading that someone knows that Some people Do have these feelings from counseling molestation victims: I.e… some people who molest others have these feelings.”

    What I meant here was not to ask anyone to empathize with child molesters…

    I was referring to empathizing with ME. I am not a child molester.

    and what I meant was it ESPECIALLY feels bad to be COMPARED with one… which Is what I’m feeling as I read the comments

  102.  #102Linmayu on May 12, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    I empathize with you Daria <3

  103.  #103heartbeat on May 13, 2009 at 2:01 am

    Mercedes, I hope you find peace around this topic. Words – definitions – are only the surface of things.

    I have taught teenagers and young people and experienced those erotic feelings, even around my son and his friends. At first I felt really BAD, especially as a sexual abuse survivor. It used to be said that the abused always go on to abuse, so I felt AFRAID too.

    Did feeling bad and afraid help me? Of course not! I have great faith in human nature, in our own innate morality. Fortunately I’d done a lot of awareness/body work, a lot of inner searching. And I had a couple of close friends who admitted the same.

    The only way to explore those feelings of being TURNED ON is to explore them, be open to them and to the message.

    And what I discovered was a wonderful feeling of being 16, but a happy, energetic 16 instead of a shut-down, confused 16. I embraced my ’16’ Energy – and – this is important – did not confuse that energy with WHO I AM. In other words, I did not behave as a 16-year old around my son and his friends (only with MY friends lol!).

    This experience has made me a passionate advocate of young people, aroused my ANGER at how our culture, generally speaking, tries to contain their energy and make them conform. Young men need to be out in the mountains hunting wild boar, for goodness sake! Young women need to be dancing together in goddess energy, laughing and practising magic, celebrating BEING ALIVE.

    Something else – being open to my feelings and exploring them enabled me to hold my boundaries when several of my son’s friends flirted with me.

    Identification with thoughts and feelings is not the same as HAVING feelings.

    Fabulous fabulous posts, sirens – thank you. XXXXXX

  104.  #104Mercedes on May 13, 2009 at 6:10 am

    Heartbeat: Thank you but I hope I never find peace around this topic. I hope it always fires me up. I hope I never forget how it feels.

    That being said, I think my point was missed in this discussion. My point is:

    EVERYONE does NOT have these feelings. Everyone ELSE here appears to have these feelings (sorry if I missed someone who spoke out and agreed that they don’t eitiher) but EVERYONE on this planet does not have these feelings. I’m on this planet and I don’t have them.

    My question is (because I get it, you all have sexual and erotic feelings toward children…I don’t want to keep debating that):

    Do you all feel that same erotic feeling for:

    Your parents?
    Your grandparents?
    Your brothers?
    Your sisters?
    Your neighbors?
    The homeless people at the soup kitchen?
    Your tables?
    Your chairs?
    Your coffee cups?
    Your televisions?
    The butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker?

    Does everyone ELSE here belive this opinion (I’m still assuming this is something Rori made up because I really did google it and can’t find that it’s an actual scientific theory…) that if we like someone or something or some place that means on some level, we want to have sex with it? Am I really the only one reading here that honestly doesn’t, no matter how hard she thinks about it, DOESN’T want to make love to my favorite picture frame?

  105.  #105DocK on May 13, 2009 at 6:27 am

    Mercedes – I get what you’re saying. I don’t want to make love TO a chair but when I am in pole dance class – there is a large stuffed chair there – and I can imagine that my guy is in it and dance TO the chair while I am feeling erotic. I can also dance IN the chair and feel erotic. I can also dance using a plain old folding chair and feel sexy doing a jazzy chair dance using it as a prop.

    I can see a picture frame that holds no picture but is beautiful and old and feel sentimental and sad tracing my fingers over it. I can look at a picture of my grandmother and her husband (second) and know the story behind their relationship and feel romantic.

    For me – the feeling of erotic, romantic or whatever is within me but it can be in response to inanimate objects I am looking at or touching.

  106.  #106Mercedes on May 13, 2009 at 6:34 am

    Dock: I think you misunderstood what I’m asking. What you’ve said, I agree with…it’s not about an erotic feeling towards my chair or my grandmother, it’s a feeling…a connection…whatever, but it’s not about wanting to make love to it, her, or him.

    What Rori said (and this is a cut and paste exact quote) is:

    I actually can say out loud to you that standing here right at this moment “I want to make love to that chair.”

    I’m asking straight up…from your hearts…do you all believe we all feel this way? Or…do you belive (as I do) that SOME people feel this way but EVERYONE doesn’t. Do you all agree that if a teacher says she’s never been turned on by her students that she’s lying to herself? Do you all believe that all fathers shut down because of an erotic attraction towards their daughters? Do you all believe that everything and everyone and every place you like…on some level…you want to make love to it or them?

  107.  #107DocK on May 13, 2009 at 6:44 am

    Hmmm – guess I would have to agree with you if I am interpreting that way. I don’t have that feeling about everything or person to which/whom I am attracted.

  108.  #108Mercedes on May 13, 2009 at 7:29 am

    Dock: That’s all I was trying to point out. Feelings are individual. It’s a fact that we all have them, but nobody can tell us how we feel about anything and nobody can say “everyone” feels a certain way.

    I was trying to point out that there’s really no basis for the contention that all good feelings and all good energy are sexual by origin. Agree or don’t agree…doesn’t matter. One opinion was stated and I had another.

    I was simply trying to say (as I said WAY early on in all these comments) that this is an interesting take on things but I disagree with it.

    When it comes to children, yes, I’m going to get very passionate when someone tells me I have an erotic attraction towards children and that I’m lying to myself if I don’t admit it. I got passionate and will again if the subject comes up again.

    But the true, honest, from my heart point was that we don’t all feel the same way and we don’t all always have to agree with everything Rori says and we don’t have to let someone else tell us how we feel and we can still learn from Rori and we can still be accepted here. We can stand up for ourselves anywhere, anytime. We can be the only person on a blog who feels a certain way…and that’s ok. We can be passionate even when all others seem to disagree with us. We can keep saying over and over and over that we feel different. We can make mistakes in our wording so others get offended. We can go back and clarify those words so people can hear that we didn’t mean to offend anyone. We can stay offended even after someone has clarified their words. It doesn’t matter…it’s all okay…because we are who we are and NONE of us should have to pretend we aren’t.

    It would have been so much easier for me to agree with Rori and admit to feelings I don’t have and lie to you all about where I stand on this. It would have been easy for me to go along with the crowd (and I’m not saying anyone was doing that, I’m talking about what would have been easy for me considering my position over the last couple of days)…but…that would not have been me being authentic. That would not have been me telling you how I really feel. That would not have been fair to ME or to YOU. That would have been something I would have regretted. I have those boundaries of mine…they’re strong and they’re real…and some of them are committments to myself…an agreement to stay true to how I feel and not compromise that for anyone. (Not even Rori Raye…LOL)

  109.  #109Daria on May 13, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Thank you Linmayu… I felt very loved.

  110.  #110heartbeat on May 13, 2009 at 10:32 am

    I feel stifled and intimidated by so many questions. I want to respond to your anger and frustration at not feeling heard, Mercedes, but I feel bored and irritated.

  111.  #111Mercedes on May 13, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Heartbeat…no need to respond to my “anger and frustration at not being heard”…my anger and frustration is at Rori for telling us how we all feel. Doesn’t matter to me if anybody here even reads what I write…what matters is that Rori doesn’t have the right to tell me we’re all alike with regard to our feelings. She and I have exchanged emails over this, so she’s well aware of how I feel and I’m well aware of how she feels. We’re good…just different.

    I asked the questions not because I’m not being heard, rather because I AM being heard (loud and clear from the sounds of the many responses)…but my point was being missed.

    I hope I don’t stifle, intimidate, irritate and bore you for long. I’m not usually told I stifle and bore people but irritate and intimidate them…oh yeah…it happens…

  112.  #112Flipper on May 13, 2009 at 10:56 am

    For me, making love is far more than and doesn’t even necessarily have to include physical sex. (Actually, and although the expression wasn’t used so reductively above, it’s a trigger for me to hear ‘making love’ used as a synonym for ‘getting some’ in most cases.)

    I hope you never stop getting fired up about your topic, either Mercedes. It’s a noble one, and I more than admire and appreciate that you put your whole self well beyond the call of duty in treating it and making people’s lives better.

    And I don’t feel that we’re talking about the same topic. So I’m going to practice walking away and concentrate on exploring and experimenting with the challenges and contradictions that I feel within my topic.

  113.  #113heartbeat on May 13, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Thank you, Mercedes. I was feeling pressured into agreeing with you by your questions.

    I am interested in sacred sexuality, in chakra energy – kundalini – and tantra, that are concepts treasured in other cultures as the very life-force that stirs us.

    My body responds to attraction from the base chakra and from the heart. I feel energy as a movement in my body, and then as movement in my whole being. It always brings a sense of wonder and healing which can also feel confusing or painful.

  114.  #114DocK on May 13, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Flipper – get what you mean on “making love” and how it is used. I would feel so annoyed when meeting a guy and knowing him for brief time (all of 20 minutes at times) and he says he wants to “make love” when he means “get some,” “do” me, or whatever.

    Unfortunately, it has been such a big trigger for me as well that I had gone almost overboard in the opposite direction and I almost NEVER used the term “make love.”

    Fortunately, I have finally been able to use the term, I feel, correctly and experience it that way. Part of owning my vulnerability and sharing that with a great guy.

  115.  #115Daria on May 13, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    After paying special attention to this yesterday…

    I would call this feeling more proto-sexual than all and out sexual.

    It might not be really sexual although it could be.

    It feels like tingling in my vagina, heart and boobs. But is not accompanied by continued desire to have sex. It’s more like Joy.

    Also reminds me of what Rori was saying about the base chackra, and how it’s “not quite” sexual.

    The feeling Could go into being more sexual…(I suppose) and I would now feel ok with that instead of feeling frightened… because it’s just a feeling and not something I am choosing.

    I have no problem with someone considering this feeling non-sexual. It is not really clearly sexual, it’s just a “lighting up” that could go towards sexuality or towards something else.

    I also don’t have a problem with someone who may experience this feeling more clearly sexually than I do, again it’s an Energy feeling and not something wrong with us.

  116.  #116Rori Raye on May 13, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Angel, Welcome, and Yes, this is crappy. Basically, if a man is not free to marry you – I suggest you consider not being exclusive with him. I know how stuck you must feel.. Please think it through this way – instead of trying to get him to do what you want him to do – simply accept where he’s at and decide what YOU want to do. Circular Dating – just flirting and talking with other men – is a great start to help you figure out what you want to do with WHAT IS. Love, Rori

  117.  #117gina on May 13, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    I think that sexual abuse is about inappropriate BEHAVIOR – it’s not about feelings at all. We all have all kinds of feelings – violent impulses, sexual urges, etc. What differentiates us, as humans, from animals, is what we DO with those feelings. If we act on all those feelings we can hurt ourselves and others. If what we DO is DENY those feelings, we wind up dysfunctional. As a side note, I actually TRY to get “erotically” involved in whatever I’m doing, because then I do it much better. If I express my sexual energy while singing, speaking, drawing, or even helping people, it’s like I’m tapping into my creative energies. I’m able to access my inner most true essence. It’s my inner life force, and Sex is a key to life, so of course it is artificial to take it out of the equation!

  118.  #118gina on May 13, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    There is a guy who is totally claiming me and I’m starting to like it. I liked him at first, then I felt bored with him for liking me and scared of being controlled or limited by his love – he was moving fast towards a relationship, and I felt claustrophobic. I ran away, and he let me, but kept asking when he could come to me. I thought for sure that I was not interested in letting him in, but he’s growing on me. As opposed to the last guy who wouldn’t even drive 30 minutes to meet me half way, last night this guy drove an hour to pick me up and take me back to his town last night. He took good care of me all night, this morning he made me breakfast, and drove me an hour home. He’s talking about marriage and wanting to “serve” me and everything. He says that the only thing that is keeping him from wanting marriage right this instant is that he wants to be better off financially. I am beginning to like feeling safe and comfortable and loved and cared for. However, last night, there were moments when I was pining away for a guy from the past who lives on the other side of the country, who is divorced, wounded, unwilling to be in a loving relationship, and who isn’t even contacting me. And yet, I felt almost like holding out for that guy cause my mind is crazily thinking that he’s “the one” – and the only basis for that is that absolutely love looking in his eyes – it’s like I feel our souls “click” and I could just look into them forever. With this new guy, I feel myself sinking into a connection with him, but I haven’t experienced the the soul “click.” I also don’t like that he chews tobacco (just found that out last night – eww) and he drinks too much alcohol (he agrees). As a result of these bad habits, I also feel turned off that his face looks puffy and unhealthy. Would love to know your thoughts on how to attract a loving HEALTHY husband.

  119.  #119Linmayu on May 13, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    I’m now feeling Mercedes’ side of the eroticism issue. I work with some absolutely delightful, adorable people. And yes, being around them gives me that joyful feeling like being with a lover or a cat–that oh-my-God-I-want-to-pick-you-up-and-snuggle-you feeling.

    But there is in fact a limit to that feeling, a limit that I can feel, a boundary that says Go No Further, and a lack of desire to get through that boundary. Something prevents me from actually picking up and snuggling my co-workers or even thinking it would be a good idea.

    With a lover–though it’s been so very long that I hardly remember what that felt like–that boundary isn’t there–or it is there, but it’s saying, “come on in.”

  120.  #120Daria on May 14, 2009 at 12:22 am

    I can feel that boundary too.

    Although I feel very amused by the image of Linmayu picking up and snuggling her coworkers.

  121.  #121Faith on May 16, 2009 at 12:55 am

    How is the best way to respond to a man that want me to drive to them? I keep running into this and when I refuse to drive to them, they think I’m selfish or they respond by saying I really don’t want to meet them. Do you think it’s okay to meet someone halfway if they are 2 hours away? Some of my friends think it’s only fair I drive halfway but my son says no, the man should drive to me. I would prefer the man drive to me but I don’t want to be perceived as selfish, because I am not selfish.

  122.  #122Rori Raye on May 16, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Faith – Long distance is hard. See if you can stick to men who are in your town. And I’m with your SON. DON’T drive long distance to meet a man for the first time. The neighborhood coffee shop is fine for a first meeting if he lives in your town – but if you put out effort like this – you’re going to burn out. And Circular Dating is about it being EFFORTLESS and FUN – not a “chore.” Love, Rori (This has nothing to do with SELFISH. The men who call you that are trying to manipulate you. Don’t bite. Love, Rori

  123.  #123Ann on May 16, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    I’ve heard Rori mention are chakras before below is a link to a chakra test. Looks like my chakras are out of whack a bit.

  124.  #124LovePwr on June 12, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Rori. I’m confused. I understand telling them the truth, that we don’t honestly want them, just as a friend, if we feel more, and not ‘pretend’ it’s okay. And even telling them we care about them, but, ok they’re right, and walk away.

    BUT … IF we really do love them and want to be with them, and they COME BACK TO US … HOW do they have the chance and ability to COME BACK TO US .. show us they want us romantically, etc .. IF he changes his mind and realizes he DOES want us romantically … if we are not giving them any chance, hanging up, not returning calls, not listening to them, or their feelings, etc?

  125.  #125Rori Raye on June 14, 2009 at 11:26 am

    LovePwr, Welcome, and than you for your great question…Trust us all here, we’ll all say this –if he wants to give you what you want – he’ll find a way to let you know. A card, a message, something on your doorstep, on Facebook…You can tell by listening to a message if there’s something different. And it BETTER be WAY different before you respond to it. We’re taught to think we’re going to “screw something up” if we don’t work at it, respond quickly, “jump on it…” Romance doesn’t work that way. That kind of thing only seems to a man like “eagerness.” No man wants an eager, “puppy-like” woman. And being that way may relieve some anxiety and stress – but it really makes you feel TERRIBLE about yourself. Love, Rori

  126.  #126Tired on June 15, 2009 at 8:39 am

    I just recently told a male friend that I was going to give him space. I’ve told him several times that I don’t feel like a priority in his life and that I feel drained because of it. The only response he had for me was “I understand” and “ok”. I have been seeing this man for 2 years now and that is all he has to say. We were not exclusive, although he tries to act like I am the only one he was involved with. But I don’t believe it based on how he treats me and always having time for other things except me until he feels like it.

    I am guilty of leaning forward some of the time with him, but I am conscious of it and try to correct it. I’ve been trying the circular dating thing, but no one else excites me. I am really sad and disappointed in my friend’s reaction.

    I am not planninng on initiating any more contact with him since I have said my peace. It’s going to be tough though! Do you think there are any other options other than letting it go?


  127.  #127Rori Raye on June 15, 2009 at 9:09 am

    Welcome, Tired. Circular Dating will help you let go more easily and less painfully – and yet – if, after 2 years, this man is no closer to commitment to you (and the biggest clue here is that you feel drained) – does it make sense to you to continue to beat your head against the wall? Think about what’s good for you, what FEELS good – and do that…Love, Rori

  128.  #128Tara on July 5, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Hello- I still have very strong feelings for my ex. He says that if we are friends first that we can “build something stronger”. He also says that we should “be friends…and see what happens..let life happen how it happens, and stop forcing things to happen…”
    It bothers me that he then told me about some sexual mishap that he had recently with some random girl…
    Plus, there is no physical touching, no hugs or kissing, etc. No “it’s nice to see you”-nothing. I feel like he’s keeping me on the “backburner” or “just in case” something or someone else doesn’t work out.
    I know i deserve better, and why do I want HIM?
    My friends tell me I should move on, but I still love him.
    Can I really be friends???

  129.  #129Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Tara, no, you can’t be friends with him, because you’re hung up on him. Get yourself off his hook and DATE. Get your self away from him emotionally. Love, Rori

  130.  #130Angel on July 6, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for one year and 3 months now.I love him and he says he loves me.However it bothers me that we are in the same town that his ex lives in.Not so much the fact of living in the same town that bothers me but the fact that we went out for a drive one day and out of the blue my boyfriend decides hes going to stop by and visit his ex mother in law who is living with his ex in the house they lived in together.I felt so hurt and disrespected he left me in the car while he went inside his ex asked where i was he said she doesnt want to talk to you.Its not about that its just uncomfortable for me. i dont mind him visiting his ex mother in law as long as he leaves me out of it especially not bring me to the house he once lived in with his wife.Am i being unreasonable i have nothing against my boyfriends ex however i am not comfortable in that situation.He tells me im jealous he says he doesnt feel anything for his ex anymore he doesnt know why it bothers me so much.I dont think its fair on his part to expect me to visit the house where he lived with his ex.Thats one thing i also went to a wedding last weekend which my boyfriend agrred to get out of school early so we could go to the wedding and we would take turns driving.He ends up getting out of school earlier and decides to make some visits along the way knowing we had a long drive ahead of us he ends up being so late and had been drinking and couldnt drive i had to drive the whole way myself 7 hours in pouring rain and fog.And didnt get to where we were going until 2 30 in the morning.I was so upset he says he loves me why does he hurt me like that?He says im the one he wants a life with me sometimes im not so sure about that.Can you give me some advice,Thank you.

  131.  #131Pooja on July 16, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Okay, there are a lot of comments in this post so I’m not sure if someone has already asked this question but I’m just going to go for it. If the answer to it was already posted then please copy/paste to me =)

    I had met this guy on a dating site a while back and we talked sporadically initially so I was not like really into him or anything.. hadn’t met him yet either. Then one day, we started talking more and I began to really like him. He started coming online every chance he got and we would talk and share a lot of things (interests, feelings, anything). Finally, we agreed to meet. After meeting, he kept telling me I was so beautiful and he told me he liked me a lot.. he was flirting a lot, too. It was clear we both had feelings for each other. Then I went and did something incredibly stupid: I told him how I felt. Then he gave some speech about that he can’t really get into a relationship now because he is just a student, unemployed, and he is unsure of his stay in the country (if he doesn’t get a job, he will have to return to India in a few months). He said he wouldn’t want to promise me anything and then have to leave. I understood where he was coming from so we just dropped it. He basically continued acting the same and still talking regularly. Then I told myself this was maybe not the best relationship to pursue so I got interested in someone else. When I told him about that guy, he said “do you have any single friends? =P” which I found interesting because up till then I didn’t think he was pursuing me… then he suddenly stopped coming online as much and he seemed upset in general whenever I did talk to him. Eventually, he started coming online more but things were very different. Even when I told him that things w. this other guy didn’t work out, he didn’t go back to how he was.

    He still flirts with me sometimes and when we met recently he hugged me and it lasted a little longer than I expected it to which was interesting. I think he assumes I’m not interested in him anymore. I’m not sure how to let him know I’m interested (even if he can’t do anything about it I would like him to know in case things would work out later) without leaning forward or making the same mistake I made before. How do I approach this delicately and, if I don’t get him as a lover, at least keep him as a friend (since that’s what we were first and foremost anyway) ?

    Any advice would be appreciated. Sorry for such a long post! Thanks =)

  132.  #132Pooja on July 16, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Oh, I forgot to mention: I’m continuing to talk to other guys despite being interested in this one. I’ve learned not to put all my eggs in one basket =)

  133.  #133Christine on August 13, 2009 at 7:38 am


    I have done it! I have won the battle! My now ex fiance has totally stopped communicating with “Leah” his co-worker. But now what? He says that he is having a trust issue that he has been burned now by 3 women, (I am not one of the 3) how do I go from “friend” back to lover? On one hand he talks about moving on from me and yet I can still hug, cuddle and kiss him and he wants to do things with me like see a movie or hike; things that we use to do together before all of this mess happened. To me that doesn’t sound like someone who wants to move on but then what do I know about how a guy thinks? I have been told by friends to give him time and the space that he feels like he needs and then he will come back around to me. What do you think? I trust your advice since your advice has been spot on since this whole mess started a month ago now.

  134.  #134Kath on August 14, 2009 at 4:41 am

    Hi Rori- I’ll keep this brief because its soo confusing!!- You have already confirmed for me that I was living with a toxic man who I had to get away from- I have- He moved out 4wks ago and I was hoping to get peace and space- but once a week I get a long text about how he is now in therapy and knows he loves me and that I am the one for him and he will wait as long as it takes, etc etc- The thing is- I am focussing on me and right now, to be honest, I think all men are jerks!- but I still have feelings for him- or is it that I wish he’d said all this lovely, loving stuff before??!!- Help!!

  135.  #135kismet on August 22, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    I totally understand what you mean by erotic. To me, erotic is just a blissful feeling of happiness and enjoyment. Its childlike appreciation for whatever/whoever. Its like basking under the shade of a tree and feeling the cool breeze and hearing birds chirp. Its a good feeling. I’ve also come to the point where I can see beauty and greatness in people no matter how they look or whatnot.

    Recently I met someone who I am attracted to on different levels like I’ve never been before. He’s really into me also and have made all the moves on me. Yet, after a night of being closer with eachother (we were just enjoying eachother’s presence, the rain and scenery, enjoying the feeling of our delight, smiling and breathing. It was alot of nonverbal communication) I asked him to go to a concert because I enjoy his company. My gut instinct told me its the wrong thing to do but I asked anyways because my friends aren’t into the concert that I like.
    So a few days before the concert, he told me how he felt. He likes me, all he did shows he likes me, but he’s not emotionally ready for a relationship. He told me all the things he liked about me: my spiritual views and how cool I am etc. I told him I’m not ready for a relationship either, thats why I’m single for awhile. So the point was, we’re going to the concert as friends only, which we did. He cares about me so he was honest with me.

    I’m confused, I know I should just take it at face value: he likes me but he’s not ready for a relationship, neither am I. But, how can a person suppress their true feelings and say that they’re just friends when there’s definitely something more? He’s not man enough to handle having strong feelings for me and still be able to focus on his priorities? I know I was overwhelmed too. I wrote about it my blog. But I’m willing to feel it, to surrender to my heart. Is he rejecting his own feelings? Or is his feelings only sexual and thats why it doesn’t matter to him if he suppresses/controls that sexual attraction or not? I think that we’re both strongly attracted to eachother that it scares us, as we’re still young and inexperienced. He also clarified to me that as we became closer, our relationship headed towards boyfriend and girlfriend, and he’s not ready for it. All this is from his point of view. I was simply accepting his gestures and going with what felt right for me. Rori, what do you think? Feel free to read my blog also.

    If I feel a complete attraction for a man and he feels the same way (which for now I define as erotic), he would be someone I want as a companion, someone I want to grow and experience life with. So what is romantic attraction then, in comparison to erotic? Are you saying I am mistaking my attraction to him as romantic? We flirt, there’s friendliness, there’s sexual tension, there’s playfulness, there’s alot of care and understanding (the only thing lacking is my lack of words because I’m so used to others speaking and me listening, or others giving and me recieving); is this not “romantic relationship/attraction”?

  136.  #136Rori Raye on August 22, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Kismet, Welcome, and you’re not going to like my answer. This is a huge answer for a long post…so I’ll just start. I know you think he’s into you. I know you think he has feelings for you like the ones you have for him. You talk about that all through this letter as though he feels the way you WANT him to feel. But it can’t be true that he feels that way. You’re making it up. This is imaginary. The “I’m not emotionally ready for a relationship” is a line. Sorry, but it is. It’s a brush-off line. And if you asked him, he’d never tell you the truth, because he’s nice, and he would LIKE to like you intensely, he just isn’t feeling it. He likes you a lot, however, and so he’s calling this “friends.” Intense feelings of wanting to be with a woman – which is ESSENTIAL for a man to have in order to have a relationship with him – is not something he can describe or quantify. By asking him out, you put yourself in a difficult position.

    Please do not contact him again. If he calls and wants to hang out, the choice is yours. But “friends” is not dating. A date is romantic, it has a purpose, it’s driven by a man’s desire to be with you in more ways than sexual or friendship. Please hold out for that. Love, Rori

  137.  #137kismet on August 22, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Thanks Rori.
    Its just that he sent out two completely different messages. I would’ve appreciated if he was even more honest. Because he said he likes me in the same sentence that he said he’s not ready, it was confusing what his intentions were. Plus, he’s an odd one assuming that I’m the type that pushes for a relationship. I’m the most relationship-phobe girl I know!

    The problem is, we have an upcoming class together and I don’t know how to treat him as just friends when we treated eachother as “interested.”

    Question: Isn’t it a good sign that he’s not the type to push for a relationship fast either, but will wait for the right one, or right time; just as I would be patient and want a guy I like to be patient. I’m selective and have been open to good guys who I’m compatible with, unlike in the past.

    Wouldn’t you say that either sex who have high self respect and values do not rush into a relationship, and/or do not ignore a person just because they aren’t recieving something? But they take their time and focus on their life goals and passion?

    I think that me and him are on the same boat, that is, you attract who you are: we’re both not ready and would rather focus on getting our life together instead of serious relationships where we could lose focus.

    But then again, that means we’re not facing our fears.

  138.  #138Vicki Kerns on August 28, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Rori, you are such an incredible lady and an inspiration to we wonderful ladies. And you always remind us that “we’re not alone.” When I read all the blogs from different women, I feel their pain. But knowing that I’m not alone helps me to stop blaming myself. It’s almost as if I own a whip because I’m constantly flailing away at myself for the things I’ve in the name of love. But reading your words and listening to your programs is teaching me to STOP beating myself up. I have loved the same man for over 4 years and twice it seems he’s stepped up, but once I show interest he retreats. This second time was hard because we ended up having sex. OR the old “friends with benefits” as he put it. But here’s a kicker you may not have heard before. We first slept together the day after Christmas last year, then he did a 180-turnabout. We talked about it, jumping the gun, blah, blah, and at the end of February we began the “benefits” scenario. But here’s the odd thing: in the last 6 months we’ve had sex maybe 4 or 5 times – TOTAL. And I know for a fact that he’s not getting it elsewhere. And the times we’ve been together have been very passionate. But I think the last time, 3 months ago, might have scared him away from even that. Up until him, I hadn’t ever really enjoyed sex, and I’m 53. Yes, my choice of men all my life has been abissmal, and 11 years ago I just started being celibate, until this man. But the last time we were together, I was so turned on. He asked me, “Hasn’t any man ever done this for you?” And I was truthful and answered, “No one has ever taken the time with me that you have. Thank you.” And he’s the one that advocated being “open” in the bedroom. I guess if you can’t take the heat, eh? Anyway, I want to thank you for all you’re doing for women. I am in the middle of the “Reconnecting Your Relationship” series now. I don’t know if it will work to bring him back, but at least I am now gaining the courage to start looking elsewhere. And it is difficult because I really do love him as a friend and being around him is always so much fun (sans sex). But because of my deep feelings for him, it far overshadows the friendship, so I know I must end it. I am growing stronger every day, and I am printing and pasting around my home some of your blogs, your rules, your postings to other women. I am surrounding myself with what I have come to call my “Rorispeak.” Thank you so much. Vicki

  139.  #139Loumelc on August 28, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    My partner of nine months ended our relationship last weekend saying he loved me but is no longer in love with me. He said I am an amazing woman, wants to make sure I’m ok but he needs to be set free and be by himself. He also said he wants to be allowed to come grovelling back if he’s wrong. I don’t believe he’s not in love with me anymore, we have been through a rough couple of months due to his past (a 10 year relationship that ended in Dec 07 which devastated him) resurfacing in the form of him buying out her portion of their house, her moving out & him packing up all his things in the house. He moved overseas to my country about six months after they split and has been here a year. He had to go back there to finalise the house etc. It was the final part of that relationship and was very very tough on him.

    I replied to him that I agreed we should break up, that he did need time and I am fine, which I basically am. And I said that hopefully one day we will be able to be friends and I wished him well for the future. I was devastated when it first happened but chose not to fall apart. I also said that I do not believe that he is not in love with me anymore, that he is confused, scared etc. In the past week I have been getting on with my life, getting strong, going out etc. Of course I really miss him. I am not making any contact with him at all and I am going to start dating again – yuk!!!

    We had a fantastic relationship until his past freaked him out. So in love, so happy. He is the one for me and I have never felt this way about any other man. So I guess I just keep going on with my life and hope that he comes back. I don’t understand though how there is “in love” and “love”. Surely in a relationship you either love someone or you don’t? Any advice on anything I should be doing? I really believe that if we bumped into each other he’d know he really is in love w me, but I am not going to orchestrate that and there’s no chance really of it happening. Do you think that after a period of time of not hearing from me etc that there’s much chance he’ll miss me and realise? Any idea how long this may take on average? Thanks everyone this is very hard and painful to go through but I’m trying to keep my faith strong.


  140.  #140Rori Raye on August 29, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Loumelc, Just saw that you posted this first. So sorry for your pain–and you sound wonderful. Strong, smart, moving on. Anything is possible — but your only job now is to move forward and forget about him. If you hold onto him in your mind and heart (read the posts about how to handle this…) you’ll just be putting a ball-and-chain around your leg. Love, Rori

  141.  #141Rori Raye on August 29, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Vicki, Welcome, and Brava to you! I think you’re handling this brilliantly — it’s a new situation for you, and you’re looking at it as an experience to learn from…I can feel the willingness in your energy to keep working on YOU and seeing what happens out “there”… I don’t know what’s going on with him, but I know it doesn’t matter. If he shows up, he shows up. If you keep doing what you’re doing, and have the willingness and courage to keep experimenting and experiencing…perhaps, for you, taking lovers and working through all the triggering, and treating sex ans a learning and deepening experience for YOU, as opposed to a “relationship” thing might be very, very valuable for you right now — so, even if you just look at it THAT way – you’d put him OUT of your picture. Just keep Circular Dating and treating YOURSELF like a queen, and you’ll see…other men will show up and you’ll be babystepping your way to the love you want! Love, Rori

  142.  #142Caroline on October 20, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Hi Rori,

    So I’m following all your advice on not being friends with my ex-boyfriend who dumped me after living together for 13 months and devestated me unfourtunately he was not able to be in a relationship mentally due to not being emotionally healed from his divorce which was 10 months before we met and his ex wife really screwed up with the kids one afternoon 1 day before he left me in a car accident under the influence with his daughter in her car, and the next day I catch him moving out and telling me I deserved better and he can’t do “this” anymore (meaning the relationship) as we were having problems the last 2 months before he left. So here is my question: he calls me on an average of every 10 days to see If I need any money to pay any of the bills, rent etc. and said to me that as long as he’s alive I will never be in the streets, what I dont get is that I earn well over 75k on commission and there was one time when I was short that he had to float the expences himself as I did a couple of times when for him when we were together, so what I don’t get is why is he still calling? I’ve told him It’s too hard to be friends, I’m not calling, texting or emailing and yet he even called me to tell me that his friend died (who I never met, only heard of) we had a friendly break-up but why is he still calling me?? You say lean back and let the man give to me but I’m really confused as to why he’s still calling? I know that right now his life is a real mess as he’s trying to stabilize his kids and sell his house (marital asset) and basically has too much baggage I would want him back in my life after his life is all in order, but I’m not waiting around for him I’m doing all that makes me happy and circular dating, I just need your help to understand why is he still calling? Thanks Rori

  143.  #143Mary on October 31, 2009 at 12:04 am

    Hello. I’ve been reading the blog for a while, and I’d love, love, love! to hear some advice for my particular situation. I can’t figure out how to post the situation other than in the comment box, so please pardon me for a deviation from the topic.

    I’m single and my very first love contacted me to say that his wife filed for divorce. He’s out looking at houses, so he can move out, and would love to see me, as he has some business in a city near me. I actually have a business conference booked there during the time he’ll be there (pure coincidence), and at first I told him I’d see him. (He offered dinner.) It didn’t sit well with me, though, because he’s still married and living with his wife. I emailed him and told him that I’d like him to make a decision first – either way! And to take his time. Then I’d love to catch up with him when the crises is over. If he stays with his wife, maybe next time they’re in town, I can show them around. If not, we’ll have that dinner.

    This is a guy I have loved since we were kids. We call each other on our birthdays, just to say hi, and we talk for about two or three minutes, always very respectful of our home situations. I know that if he does get divorced, every woman will want him. But I also know that before he marries any of them, he’ll want to see me first. Just to know for sure.

    So I feel confidant to wait. And another reason for waiting is that kids always add things up and dates are important to them. If we didn’t see each other until AFTER he moves out, then if it does work out, everyone is happy. That makes sense to me.

    But I hesitate about seeing him, and it’s not too late to change my mind, because it’s like I’m supposing that I know his motives. I’m imagining that it would be a date if we had dinner. Maybe he’s not thinking that at all! Maybe he’d just like to see me to say hi, after all these years. Or maybe he just needs support because he’s going through a rough time. So it’s almost embarrassing to say that I’d rather wait, because I’m the one who is interested in him, and that makes it painfully obvious. Almost like telling him too much.

    He is going to ask me again. The conference is two weeks away. What do you think of this scenario? I’d really welcome your answer, Rori and feedback from anyone else. Again, I’m sorry that I’m not sure how to post this in a generic place.

    Thank you so much.

  144.  #144Rori Raye on October 31, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Mary – I’m posting this and my answer right now….Love, Rori

  145.  #145Mimi on January 18, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Would you girls help me understand this little situation I am in?

    I have met an amazing guy who in Sep/oct 09 separated from his wife, at the same time as I was breaking up with my 2 year boyfriend. The attraction between us built up, we ended up kissing a few times in Nov but then I felt him getting a little distant. He said I was lovely but he needed to get strong emotionally so I replied ok, since you are not interested and it’s clarified, let’s just be friends. I did not want to be a rebound or jump into something he wasn’t ready for.

    Since then, we have spent quite a bit of time together, we get along extremely well & everyone think we are a couple. He asks a lot of deep questions & I know that he wants to know the person first before jumping into things which is commandable. He is not afraid to ask about feelings and talk about his.

    Obviously, there is always a chance of being wrong but it feels the attraction is there (others can see it) and we have similar values, personalities and needs/wants. We are even talking about working in a different state together & doing volunteer projects abroad together in the next few month.

    Last Sat after a party, I drove him home at 1.30am. I made an excuse saying I wanted to put my feet in the water as he lives by the beach & did he want to come? He said yes although he looked tired so I thought there is still a chance! We laid on the sand side by side looking at the stars & appreciating the moment. I just laid there with my heart open, waiting, giving him a chance but nothing happened. We walked back and hugged longer than usual, more than a friendly hug.

    It feels he is attracted & scared of getting into a new relationship, of getting hurt again. After 2 years in a confusing relationship of pushing away/coming back, I do not want any more confusion and find excuses but I do not want to force things.

    I have been leaning back as much as I can & not holding my breath for him but I feel really good with him. When we dated briefly, he would say ‘this feels good’, ‘I need time’ so I thought I’d leave him space. He may now be a bit confused about what I want since I clearly pushed him away.

    I thought about sharing my feelings with him and saying it would be too hard to go away with him if he doesn’t feel the same way but I think actions speak louder than words so is it ok for me to try something?

    One day when I feel brave, while we are just chatting, I thought I could just kiss him in the middle of a sentence when he doesn’t expect it. If he responds, great, if he doesn’t, I will pretend nothing happened and keep on chatting and never mention it again! But I will move away from him as I will have my answer.

    I know this is leaning forward but some guys do need to be pushed a bit sometimes. I am a confident, independent woman (also trying to be vulnerable) and I would like a clear answer. I could let things keep on developing forever but I do not want my feelings to develop while his aren’t. The longer we wait, the harder it will be to risk our ‘friendship’. I know I want more than just friends & I don’t think he would hang out with me or get ready to go away together if it was just friends.

    He always says life is too short, no time for fear or guilt so I want to take him at his own words.

    What do you think please!!??

  146.  #146Flipper on January 20, 2010 at 3:20 am

  147.  #147Mimi on January 20, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Thanks Rori,

    I don’t quite understand because it does not feel like he wants to be friends just to get ‘nurtured’. He does not share his life story with me, only occasionally he will ask me questions but it feels like he wants to know what I think in order to make sure we are on the same page. It may be in my imagination and perhaps nothing will happen but I want to know before I get hurt…

    If you would give me an idea of what to do exactly, that would be so great… ie
    – do I stop seeing altogether, no explanation?
    – do I tell him I can’t be friends with him because I want more?
    – do I just kiss him and see what happens?

    I know you prefer to lean back and let him approach us but even the times we kissed, he seemed very gentle and shy so he might need encouragement.
    I guess I have nothing to lose (apart from his ‘friendship’) so I might as well find out what he feels, what do you think??

    Thanks so much,

  148.  #148Mimi on January 20, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Also wanted to add that we started briefly seeing each other (2 or 3 dates) and I felt him getting a bit distant, I was the one who said in a nutshell ‘let’s be friends’ after he said he didn’t have much to offer & needed to go strong emotionally after his separation.

    I understand he needed to time for himself but I am in a place where I need to know if he wants more than friends now or not. I feel he is hesitating because I am the one who pushed him away and who still hangs out with him.

    Perhaps my signals are confusing to him & he is scared of trying something again.

    Is it ok to do something about it to clarify the situation with him before I cross him out of my list?

    He could really be a great life partner so I want to be sure 🙂


  149.  #149deb on May 24, 2010 at 7:30 am

    i just recently got out of a “friends with benefits” he was very affectionate and worried about me alot when i was going thur some things…… i mistook his feelings of being his friend to “he interested in me romantically. I ended it…. but the real problem is we live across the street from one another,,,,, how do i get over him now

  150.  #150Rori Raye on May 24, 2010 at 11:40 am

    deb, Welcome – and you DON’T get over him. No need to. Just Circular DATE – and watch yur mind. Don’t let your thoughts about him take over…learn to Riff and Channel and Practice with other men, and he will lose his hold. Perhaps he’s a Muse for you…then he will always be with you in a good way, and neverf hurt you, and always support you – and what he will support for you now is new love with a new man!! Love, Rori

  151.  #151Vicki Kerns on May 24, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Hey ladies, it’s an ongoing struggle, isn’t it? Do men worry, fret, spend sleepless nights worrying about us the way we do them? Somehow I doubt it. Anyway, while I’m still struggling and doing baby steps, I do have a “strong” moment to share. Having broken off my “friendship” with my love of 5 years (most of it imaginary relationship), he’s been coming back around.

    I am leaning back, I don’t call him, I don’t do things for him like I was, and I even turned down a favor he asked me for a couple of months ago saying I didn’t feel comfortable doing that big of a favor at that point, which he accepted completely. Rori, I am listening to the CDs, working to grow stronger, and working to put the problem in “God’s hands.” It’s still hard. I’ve never in my life not been able to get over a guy, but this one sticks in my mind and heart like glue. I take it one day at a time. It’s hard but I will succeed. Will he be smart enough to see that I’m the perfect woman for him? Well, if he doesn’t, it’s truly his loss. But I honestly don’t know if the man can dance or not. The greatest (and most difficult) tools I’m working on right now are unzippering my heart to my own range of feelings. You’re so right when you said that you cannot attract a man by body, mind, and soul. I will conquer this opening my heart. But here’s my “great” moment of the last couple of weeks.

    My niece and I were going to a renaissance festival to visit and perform a couple of weekends ago. The “man” is currently working at that faire. Now in the past, I would have made comments such as, “Maybe we can get together for dinner after faire one night,” but I did not mention anything at all. When we were talking (he called me), I mentioned how much we were looking forward to going to that faire and performing, period. So he pops out with a comment (I guess a pre-emptive measure) something like: “Well, I’m not sure what’s going on that weekend, but I like to keep my schedule open.” And I thought, “you ass, I didn’t ask you to do anything.” So a couple of days later, he shoots me an email and I replied back (attaching an invitation that someone else at that faire had issued to us) saying, “Wow, we got invited to do this. It’s great to be popular. Son, you’ll be LUCKY if you even get a glimpse of us this weekend.”

    So we’re at the faire and in the morning, I see him but he didn’t see me. I ignored him. They announced our names as visitors to a round of cheers and I still ignored him. Now, he has to work on a wagon out front for a big portion of the day, so my niece and I walked around and did our thing all day. Up in the afternoon, he found us and said, “Man, you’d think some people could stick their head out the front gate and see me on the wagon,” (in a kidding way). And I said plainly, “Well, we’ve been busy.”

    So we talked for a bit and went on our ways. We left a little before closing time and went back to our hotel. About an hour later, my cell phone rings and it’s him. He said, “Where’d you guys go? I was looking all over for you at the end of the day?” I said, “well, we just decided to call it a day and came back to the hotel.” So he (Mr. I like to keep my schedule open) asks me, “Have you all had dinner yet?” I said no, we hadn’t, so he asked if we’d like to go. We said yes. So he came over to the hotel and changed his clothes. I started to follow my niece and grandniece to their car and he said, “you ride with me.”

    So we had dinner and when it came time for the check, he had them put it all on one and he bought dinner for everyone, which I thought was very nice. Afterwards, we drove around as he wanted to show me where he was staying (we just drove by it) and then he took me back to the hotel, walked me to the room, and gave me a big hug goodnight.

    One small step for man, one giant step for Vicki! One thing that is very difficult for me is to keep from thinking about him all the time. That’s a tough one for me, but I’m working the tools. And I’m really and truly trying to circular date, but there’s just no one coming forward. I have a membership on and have chatted with a few guys, but nothing has come of it as yet. I’m working on going out and being more social. It’s hard to circular date when no one is asking!! But I’m hanging in there, Rori. Thank you again for all your wonderful tools and guidance. I’m working to overcome a lifetime of poor self-esteem and one crummy relationship after another. I will succeed at this (if it kills me) and I am becoming the strong and confident woman I’ve always longed to be. BTW, I’ve lost almost 20 pounds so far.

  152.  #152Vicki on September 5, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Hi Rori/Sirens-

    I have a problem that I’m not sure how anyone deals with. Story: I’ve been in love with a man for 5 years. There was attraction at first, then I did all the anti-Rori things, leaning forward, rowing the boat, etc. Of course, I relegated myself to the friendship category. We’ve had our ups & downs over the years. Several of which were me stuffing my feelings down & then having a blow-up. Throughout the course, we ended up having sex a few times & that didn’t lead to what I hoped for, of course. (I’ve never really enjoyed sex until this man, so this has been difficult for me). The last several months, we’ve become close friends again & you guessed it, we ended up having sex. The odd thing, the last time we had sex was Memorial Day 2009. He admitted to me that that was the last time he’d had sex too. So it was 15 months for him. Well, it’s 3 weeks later & he’s backed away again & recently admitted that there’s a girl that he wants to see if “anything happens” (dating/relationship) with. I didn’t blow up, just told him that I just wanted him to be honest with me.

    About a month and a half ago, we had the best heart-to-heart talk we’ve ever had. I told him that I wasn’t going to stuff my feelings down anymore, I just wanted honesty, not be left hanging. So he tells me that I’m beautiful (no man has ever said that to me), that I’m sexy, that I’m talented, etc., but that he just doesn’t feel that “spark” to take it anywhere else.

    SO HERE IS MY SITUATION: it seems like all my life I’m always the “friend.” And I have lots of friends. I watch my grown niece, who is a beautiful, sexy woman draw men in like bees to honey. I asked her today, “Am I just not feminine enough to attract a man.” And, not to hurt my feelings because we’re very close, she tells me that I need to be more flirtatious, and flirt with more men, etc. And what I’ve realized about myself is my lack of self-esteem for most of my life has made me more of the “unfeminine” woman. I love to be on stage & entertain, but I’m more the “brash & bawdy” type. And I just realized that that “exterior” me is one that I’ve developed over the years to cover up my lack of self-esteem. Being the brash & bawdier woman got me what I considered positive attention which, of course, has gotten me a lot of friends, but nothing more.

    The trouble is, I feel so lost. I don’t know how to be anything other than what I am. I don’t know how to soften myself & to be more of the feminine siren that will attract a man, and especially how to do it without losing who I am or “pretending” to be something I’m not. I am listening to the CDs & I really have gotten a lot stronger over the last year. I’m sad this man has turned to someone else, but my world isn’t crumbling. But I don’t know what to do for me. How to be more feminine without losing me.

    Help, I feel so lost here. And yes, I still have quite a bit of work to do on self-esteem yet. I guess I still don’t feel compelling enough to attract a man. My “exterior” is competing with my “interior” & I’m not sure what to do or how to begin.

    Has anyone dealt with an issue like this?

  153.  #153Kath on September 7, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Hi Vicki,

    Oh boy do I know what you’re going through!- I’d been on my own for 7yrs after a messy divorce from a violent man and I was doing a lot of work on myself (so I thought!) then I met a guy through some friends of mine and fell hook, line and sinker for him. The only thing is, he alwasy referred to me as a “really good friend” but we did sleep together for nearly three years- but never went on a date. However, he would always contact me to chat by text and then would uncannily turn up when I was least expecting it. I did chase and I tried not to and I did push for something more but I basically told me it would never happen and so I did a lot of kicking myself for being such a fool and moved on. I have never described myself as very feminine and I have had serious self-esteem issues and didn’t feel I was worthy. I always get on with men and have a number of male friends but I am rubbish at seeing any signs that they may actually be interested in dating me. The advice I would give you is don’t feel you have to settle- work on yourself, what you want in you-what you love about you, what areas you would like to improve on- experiment with clothes and going to as many places as you can to put you to the test. See if men respond to you differently- be confident- smile a lot! but mean it- and don’t feel that you have go out with any guy and have sex with them if you’re not clear whether they want a relationship with you or not. Rori will help you love you more so that any man would be just plain stupid if he didn’t see all the qualities you have and want to be with you. It has taken me four years to work on me and get to a place where I am happy with who I am and what I stand for and what I want out of life- I don’t fret anymore about whether I have a man or not- I have fun when I go out socially and have good friends and I do get lots of male attention-which boosts my ego and boosts my confidence that all the work I have done on me is worth it!- I wouldn’t let this man crush your confidence and destroy you as a person- he has said things that are true- you are beautiful and you are sexy- but its not about whether he thinks that-its about whether you believe that!- Good Luck- and let me know how it goes- xx

  154.  #154lee on April 30, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    well thats all easy said&done, I still have to[$-issues] to live with the abusive, womenizer, a_hole! hes sick& brutel! lee

  155.  #155More than friendship on June 13, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I recently read your post about men who go from being your lover, to just friends. I am in the same situation, however my situation is very unique and could use some insight.

    My ex and I were together for 16 months, and due to my financial instability when I was unemployed, I suffered from very low self esteem. I became very depressed, and questioned my self worth and whether or not my ex still loved me when we were still together and living together. One night I was in so much fear of losing him I screamed “why don’t you love me”. I couldn’t see at the time how his moving an hour away from work to where I was, all his help around the house, being a saragot father to my daughter, and constant thoughtful gestures was his way of showing he loved me. I was so depressed that I didn’t love myself, so how could I recognize what real love is? This night was a breaking point. He moved out, but due to being unemployed and on the verge of homelessness, he out of his own initiative offered to help me stay in the apartment we once shared. Since then I have found a great job, got on my feet, financially stable and HAPPY again, and I am very proud of myself for overcoming all the obsticals that once tore us apart. All this time, my ex and I have become very very close, and are the best of friends. He spends most of his time with us on the weekends, go on adventures together like a family, we talk almost daily, and he is there on his own will when it really counts.

    Here is the problem. I want more than friendship. He hasn’t made up his mind if he wants more than friendship and has told me as much, and that he loves me. He has stated numerous times that if we got back together it would be for good, as he doesn’t want to be in and out of mine and my daughter’s life, but is afraid due to what happened in the past. He has mentioned that he wants to start a business together, and even if things worked out moving in together down the road. To me this man is still in love with me, but doesn’t realize it. I’ve tried letting go, and he said I didn’t have to, then he initiates a way for us to spend time together. I’ve tried dating, I have several options with other men, but when I went on dates, I became depressed, and comparing every man to him…Most likely because for what ever reason I found other men as dead ends, that do not have all the other wonderful qualities that he does. My heart knows what it wants and it’s him. I have never had difficulty getting over any man before ever, but with him, my heart just knows this is it for me. After being split up for over a year, we still act like we are together, minus the romance, and he isn’t dating anyone as he spends all his free time with me. He is very analytical, and yet when hurt, hurts deeply. So I understand why he wants to be sure. When we are together we couldn’t be happier. He treats me like a queen and my daughter a princess…and we are not even together!

    Everyone tells me what a great guy he is and that I am not wasting my time, I know this, which makes it impossible to let go, as his actions speak louder than his words. But how do I get him from lover to friend to lover or even better…husband? In my heart I know and believe him when he tells me he loves me and cares, and thinks of me and my daughter as his family. He is just afraid. How do I make him unafraid, and upgrade status with him?

    I have your “Siren” and your “Reconnecting your relationship”. I have found them very very helpful, even brilliant…. to the point I feel more relaxed. But these are mostly for women in relationships (or at least reconnecting). I’m trying to deminish his fear and go from Lover to Best Friend (current status) to Wife! How do I over come his fear? Please help!

    – Lucy

  156.  #156More than friendship on June 13, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I recently read your post about men who go from being your lover, to just friends. I am in the same situation, however my situation is very unique and could use some insight.

    My ex and I were together for 16 months, and due to my financial instability when I was unemployed, I suffered from very low self esteem. I became very depressed, and questioned my self worth and whether or not my ex still loved me when we were still together and living together. One night I was in so much fear of losing him I screamed “why don’t you love me”. I couldn’t see at the time how his moving an hour away from work to where I was, all his help around the house, being a saragot father to my daughter, and constant thoughtful gestures was his way of showing he loved me. I was so depressed that I didn’t love myself, so how could I recognize what real love is? This night was a breaking point. He moved out, but due to being unemployed and on the verge of homelessness, he out of his own initiative offered to help me stay in the apartment we once shared. Since then I have found a great job, got on my feet, financially stable and HAPPY again, and I am very proud of myself for overcoming all the obsticals that once tore us apart. All this time, my ex and I have become very very close, and are the best of friends. He spends most of his time with us on the weekends, go on adventures together like a family, we talk almost daily, and he is there on his own will when it really counts.

    Here is the problem. I want more than friendship. He hasn’t made up his mind if he wants more than friendship and has told me as much, and that he loves me. He has stated numerous times that if we got back together it would be for good, as he doesn’t want to be in and out of mine and my daughter’s life, but is afraid due to what happened in the past. He has mentioned that he wants to start a business together, and even if things worked out moving in together down the road. To me this man is still in love with me, but doesn’t realize it. I’ve tried letting go, and he said I didn’t have to, then he initiates a way for us to spend time together. I’ve tried dating, I have several options with other men, but when I went on dates, I became depressed, and comparing every man to him…Most likely because for what ever reason I found other men as dead ends, that do not have all the other wonderful qualities that he does. My heart knows what it wants and it’s him. I have never had difficulty getting over any man before ever, but with him, my heart just knows this is it for me. After being split up for over a year, we still act like we are together, minus the romance, and he isn’t dating anyone as he spends all his free time with me. He is very analytical, and yet when hurt, hurts deeply. So I understand why he wants to be sure. When we are together we couldn’t be happier. He treats me like a queen and my daughter a princess…and we are not even together!

    Everyone tells me what a great guy he is and that I am not wasting my time, I know this, which makes it impossible to let go, as his actions speak louder than his words. But how do I get him from lover to friend to lover or even better…husband? In my heart I know and believe him when he tells me he loves me and cares, and thinks of me and my daughter as his family. He is just afraid. How do I make him unafraid, and upgrade status with him?

    I have your “Siren” and your “Reconnecting your relationship”. I have found them very very helpful, even brilliant…. to the point I feel more relaxed. But these are mostly for women in relationships (or at least reconnecting). I’m trying to deminish his fear and go from Lover to Best Friend (current status) to Wife! How do I over come his fear? Please help!

    – Lucy

    Monday, 13 June 2011 @ 1:52pm

  157.  #157sara on July 7, 2011 at 9:45 pm


    I want a relationship with someone who is gay. They tell me im.everything they want. But they dont want to have sex as they are in love with someone they can never be with.

    What do i do? Do i walk away, or is there something i can do to get under her skin, so she falls in love with me?

    This other person works wth her but is in a relationship, so its not like she will suddenly just dissapear.

    Its my first gay relarionship and its not going quite as id like. Its 3 months in


  158.  #158Savannah on August 1, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Met a man LD (1500 miles) online. Neither one of us was looking for LD relationship. Mutual attraction, (told me I was gorgeous),and many common interests led to frequent, long (7 hrs plus) phone calls, and e-mails, initiated by him. We were building a foundation of friendship which he feels is the most important step to having a romantic relationship, Six months in he says he would love to fly me down to meet him and put me up in a nice hotel. I told him thanks, but I’d feel more comfortable if he came to see me. He then said how after further thought, he didn’t have it in him to start a LD relationship, since he’s already failed at 3 and knew he could not relocate. We continued to talk. Four months later I tell him I have reconsidered meeting on his turf. He throws a huge curve ball and says, his ex GF of 2 years ago, who also lives out of state, wants to get back and he will probably do so. As I am literally speechless…he rambles on that she is the beneficiary in his will and he is the same in hers! I wish him well and hang up. The next day, he emails that he hopes it’s not improper for him to do so but that he wanted to tell me how grateful he was for how I handled things, adding I’m such a classy woman, and he is privileged to know me and hopes that he’s not making a huge mistake as it could mean losing the opportunity to possibly pursue a relationship with me. He would never ask or expect me to allow him to hedge his bet, that I deserve only the best, more than he could give. He is 51, no kids, engaged twice, never married. Ex and I are both 52 and divorced.

    I did not reply for over a month. A week after my b-day he called and left a VM saying “Happy belated birthday. I didn’t forget, it’s just that it was hard for me to call you on that day.” As it fell on a holiday, I assumed he was with her.

    I went on with my life and began circular dating. Almost a year to the day I met LD guy, I met a local guy who adores me and is very good to me. Alas, no sparks for me, but common interests and companionship have kept me dating him. Meanwhile, LD guy continued to call every few weeks, which made me think things were not working out with gf. Seven months later, I sent him a very brief happy b-day e-mail. He called me on his b-day and we talked for hours. I finally asked him why he was alone on his b-day. He said it’s a long story, I’ll tell you another time. He called the following week and explained that he broke it off with gf a month earlier.He said he knew it would never work, but nontheless, he was devastated. He told me he was toxic. He took up smoking and was heartbroken. He started to tell me about it/her…how she had a great body and was excruciatingly intelligent….BARF! I told him I could not be his therapist and suggested he get professional counseling. He agreed and signed up with a therapist. As we had stayed connected for the past 18 months, I felt it was time for us to meet. He asked if I had any expectations and I said no. He added that he believes “we’ve simply become very good friends w/ common interests, humor and someone I like visiting with, as am comfortable with it. When you asked once if i considered us as “dating” I think you’ll recall that I said I didn’t. I think that’s also when I said I’d be very happy for you if you began seeing someone and that if allowed I’d be happy to screen him from a guy’s viewpoint.” There have always been romantic undertones with us. I think he wanted to please me by agreeing to meet, but wanted to make sure I understood that he was in no place to begin a romance and believes, which I agree that he needs time to heal and doesn’t believe in band aid rebounds.

    He offered to pay for a first class hotel and all expenses. He dropped at least a thousand dollars in 3 days,catered to my every need, treated me like a queen told me I was lovely…that I was all that I had advertised on the dating site. He was flirtatious and affectionate, gave me a peck on the lips once, but other than that was a perfect gentleman. When I was in his condo I felt totally safe and at ease, like I’d known him forever. Our phone camraderie continued in person. I knew going down that he was still hung up on her, and that nothing would happen, but based on my relationship with local guy, I felt that meeting LD guy was something I needed to do. I’d always wonder about him if I didn’t do it. We had a great time together.

    When I arrived home there was a sweet VM from LD guy welcoming me home. He called from work at my scheduled arrival time. That was a month ago. He still continues to call about 2-3x’s a week, always on a Sat night (9-12) and during week. He does bring up progress of therapy, but is careful not to talk directly about ex., other than to say that she has more masculine energy and he has more feminine energy, it’s easier for her to compartmentalize and keep him in a box, when they are apart in their respective states, which somewhat surprised me as he is a high powered excecutive. I asked him when I was with him, when he planned to come and visit me and he said he’d have to think on it. I’m finding that in some ways, on the rare times I do take the initiative, it turns out favorably. So I am confused…is this an imaginary relationship? Should I ask him when he plans to come and see me?…should I tell him I can’t be his friend? One day I think I could be OK with being friends and the next I would totally like to explore a romantic relationship with him. I know it would be difficult due to the distance, and the timing of his recent break up, but I have not felt this way about someone in over 20 years. Not even so much a physical attraction…I care about him from the inside out. Also, if things clicked, I would be able to relocate. Please advise.

  159.  #159annie on August 4, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Annie says, this is not wking for me at all.when we got an apt i was under the impression we were a couple, 10 months later he dumps me! i guess, so he”d be leagal in cheating on me. this really messed me up. cryed straight for a mth. so he gt his rocks off&we gt back togeather,& dumped3wks ltr. he was happy as a pig in s–t! me miserable[still am] then bk togeather-dump- togeather-dmp-& so on for a yr.i watch his sluts come in&out[im paying 1/2 of everything, for a couch& alot of abuse] hes out party all the time, dont come home or call,he knows this hurts me alot, even though were just friends![not in my book-hes evil,luv”s to torment me] but when no-one is around hes calling me to bed! he expects dinner, his laundry done, the apt cln”d, shopping done[by bus] hes has the car to run around serchin-for-urchin! he buys food 1 a month. he tells me nada has changed he”ll be here for me[ive got health issues]he aint goin anywhare.well hes never here&1/2 the time he dont ans, his cell.hes got his cake& eatin it 2! but the maid went wth the ole-lady,i cook&bake when im happy so when he wants a REAL pie hes nice to me a few days& stays in, as soon as he gets his dessert, hes bk to a-hole. so i say ya cant be a couple then friends living in same apt to many problems, especially when theres alot of mixed signels going on, i dont like him,& moving on to HATE real soon, then its gonna be war. im to old to be used&abused by a fat-punk that thinks hes above all!

  160.  #160carly on October 13, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Hi, I’d love some advice: I met and connected intensely with an amazing guy, but soon after, he reconnected with an on/off ex and they decided to give things one final shot and be exclusive (they’d never been exclusive prior). Long story short, we became “friends” but it was so much more than that. He’d always call/text me and we had lengthly discussions at times where he’d express his feelings for me, talk about our connection and how he felt deep down that his relationship wasn’t right for him, but he needed to come to his own final realization. We’d do “friends” things like coffee and hike but try to be “good”. Eventually (after 4 months) it got out of hand, we were kissing and I told him he needed to make some decisions. I went out of town for 2weeks during which time he ended his relationship. When I got back, I had only 1 day before I had to go away for another week for work. He did the sweetest thing and took the day off work, booked us into an amazing beach hotel near the airport for my convenience etc etc we had an amazing time. however, when I was away I felt him get distant from me, and on my return he expressed to me that he had only been officially broken up for one week when we saw each other and while I was gone she was contacting him trying to patch things up. he said he felt it was too soon to jump straight into another relationship, it felt disloyal and he felt that it might ruin our chances if we did so before all loose ends, residual feelings were dealt with and the bottom line is, he asked me to give him some time. I agreed and i suggested that we go back to being “friends”. It’s now been 3 1/2 weeks since his breakup – he calls and texts me most days and we hung out once all day and evening and because of how close we were behaving, other people were asking if we were a couple…..but i’m unsure what to do from here -it feels weird to hang out and be so close but without being affectionate and i’m not sure i should be meeting up with him at all, but then I don’t want to cut him off, as i think his request is totally reasonable and he is making the effort by texting and calling me, so things could move forward naturally. i missed his call yesterday so i texted to let him know I was out at dinner and said i’d call him back today….any suggestions?!

  161.  #161Maria on May 19, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    Hello Rori and everyone,

    This is the first time in my life I am putting thoughts about my personal life out on a blog and I rarely talk much about my private life with anybody. It’s not my first relation, I am not a teenager either but I am beginning to feel desperate. I have always thought that I am strong and smart enough to deal with it by myself….until now. I find myself lost, sad, depressed and hopeless, I even find myself crying quite often for the past 6 months.

    What happened was, I met a guy online, we chatted day and night, he was after me, demanded my availability online for him every day, he was creative, fun, interesting, warm, we were exciting for each other in many ways, then when we met a few times in person ( he lives miles away ) had great time together, feeling happy and excited, we couldn’t get enough of each other, everything seemed perfect except….one night while holding me in his arms in bed he says, ” …….but we are not looking for love, just friendship, I don’t want you to have ANY hopes, Maria”……imagine how I felt….

    I tired to stop thinking about him but I cannot, it’s too late, I’m deeply in love with him, I thought he was “the one” for me but apparently I was not for him. I tried dating others, many men admire me, some even want to get serious but I feel nothing for them, do not really like them, my heart is still with that guy who wants to be just friends. We still talk and when, from time to time, I try to leave he seems not wanting to let me go but when he feels I am “back” , the same story, he gets distant and reminds that we are “just friends”. The whole thing has been lasting for about 2 years now.

    I do not know what to do. As I am writing this I can see myself that it sounds stupid, I look like a needy weak woman and all I have to do is to terminate that relation…and yet….I don’t want to leave him because I do want him with me, I never felt this way about anyone, even though I was in serious long term relations more than once. Is there any hope for me? Is it possible to change his attitude and make him love me?

    Rori, I’d love to read your books but I cannot read all the wonderful material you have available for us at once, which book should I begin with?

  162.  #162Rori Raye on May 20, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    Maria – start with the ebook – Have The Relationship You want (over in the sidebar, just click on the picture of the book) And then I’d go for Toxic Men – because this is where your work is. The ONLY reason to get seriously, exclusively involved with a man who just wants to be friends – and let it go on 2 years – is if you WANT this kind of misery. Harsh, I know, but you have one life, and if this is what you’re choosing, this is what you’re choosing. If you think you can’t dump this guy and get interested in someone who wants you – you’re lying to yourself. This is where private coaching is really, really helpful. I’d recommend Virginia Clark for you – she’s incredibly good at this kind of thing, and her personal story will seem familiar to you… Love, Rori