Don’t Get Hung Up On Him – Even If You’ve Slept With Him

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naked-torsoHere’s the age-old problem – where does sex fit in the scheme of  “relationship”? Especially at the very beginning? A comment from – I’ll call her “Gina” stated this issue so well, with a lot for me to talk about:

“Rori, I’ve recently met a man that I feel has much potential to be a great partner, the thing is on our second meeting we slept together. It was phenomenal, and we are both very much wanting it to happen again….however, I do not want to be a “one hit wonder” and do happen to think more of my self than that but to say no is difficult for me.

I freak out if I don’t hear from him and realize that I am making more out of it then it really is. He doesn’t know that I’m freaking of course but I can’t manage to hold it together around my friends and I’m a total mess. How do I break this cycle, even if it doesn’t work out with this guy…what about the future. I’m 42 and have never been married, I so desperately want to experience the love and passion in a true relationship. You’ve got your work cut out in me! Gina”

Okay here is my first hit on this situation.

Gina says straight out something that we all think, and that just kills our self-esteem and screws up all the good feelings between us and the man so far.

She says about the sex, “It was phenomenal, and we are both very much wanting it to happen again….however, I do not want to be a “one hit wonder” and do happen to think more of my self than that…”

So basically, Gina, you did something that now you feel ashamed of. Ick. You did something that now you want to backtrack from. And not only “something”… but something “phenomenal.”

So how did we get to this state?

How do we do something so full-out that it’s fantastic and then regret it later?

If you think more of yourself than you think of a “woman who would have sex with a man on her second meeting” — and YOU are that “woman” — then what hope does your self-esteem have?

What hope can you have to feel good about yourself and about this man the next time you see him, if you’re feeling guilty and ashamed and angry and bad about the really good time you just had with him?

Does this make sense?

Of course not. Absolutely not. And yet we do this to ourselves all the time.

Also, Gina, you say that “…saying no is difficult for me…”

So this is a good thing to look at.  How exactly do we learn to say NO? I’m going to talk about the “how” of that in another post….for now, I want to focus on WHY you’d want to say No. What’s the point?  What drives a decision to say No?

This is really, really important to consider before you just go around “deciding” what you should say Yes to and what you should say No to. You are not saying No because there’s something wrong with saying Yes. You’re not saying No because there’s something wrong with the request. You’re not saying No because there’s something wrong with the man.

You’re saying No because it doesn’t feel good to you.

And though you think it might feel good to you AT ANOTHER TIME – at this moment, it doesn’t feel good to you.

That’s the only reason. In fact, it has nothing to do with him.

This is the trick, the key, the essential, the solution, the secret — learning how to tell what is a feeling and what is a thought about your feeling.

To tell the difference between a real, honest, gut-level feeling, and a feeling that is COVERING the real, honest, truthful feeling.

In other words, if your feeling is anxiety, or if you’re going numb, those sensations are covering up a deeper feeling.

It takes practice. It takes practice getting in touch with your feelings as best you can and then acting from there. It takes doing that over and over and over again, until you get a real sense of how YOU work.

Now let’s say that George Clooney, or Christian Bale, or Johnny Depp, or somebody that really floats your boat, hits you up for a one night stand. Would you say no to that? Would you make an allowance for that? Would you just go for it and then beat yourself up later? Does the power of the man and the celebrity of the man change the equation?

Or… is the bottom line of all this about… Pleasure?

Do you have to say no to pleasure? Does saying yes to pleasure automatically mean you’re going to beat yourself up the next day? Does saying yes to pleasure mean that you are somehow going against your opinions about how sex fits into relationship?

If this reads like a lot of rules to you — that’s really what it is. A lot of rules. Way too many rules.

In my book, from here, in my imagination, I would say a very quick yes to George Clooney or Johnny Depp — but in real life, it might feel icky.

It might feel so obviously like it meant absolutely “nothing” that I wouldn’t even be able to have a pleasurable time. Never mind that I would have less charge on what happened the next day around this, because if I had low self-esteem to begin with, I would never assume that I could compete with all the other women that are available to George Clooney, Christian Bale and Johnny Depp, and so I would be going into that situation feeling LESS THAN.

So for starters on this way to getting what you really truly want as quickly as possible, I want you to commit yourself completely, totally, and passionately to your own pleasure.

This means that when something feels pleasurable to you you do not immediately counteract it with some kind of pain. We are all brought up to think that pleasure is somehow evil in some way. Guilt is how we’ve all been managed our whole lives.

I want you to stop that. I want you to look pleasure in the eye, and claim it as your own. So…

If you should decide in the moment that experiencing pleasure with a man feels good and you want to go ahead and do it, and then later on you find yourself all bound to him hormonally and wish you hadn’t done it, just file it away for next time.

Don’t bully yourself for taking pleasure in the moment. In fact, you might find that if you let up on yourself, the pleasure might just have stood all by itself. Maybe the experience was a stand-alone. Maybe it didn’t need to have any more meaning — maybe a relationship wasn’t required. All of these are opinions and thoughts that you have to kind of mull around.

I don’t want you to be run by some internal taskmaster. You need to have some experience with things. You need to experiment. And you need to go easy on yourself while you’re experimenting.

So can we turn this around, Gina?

I want you to say, “I had such a phenomenal time with this man, it doesn’t matter what happens next.”

And I want you to live by that. If you did it, if it happened — there was some kind of lesson in there for you. There was something you’re supposed to learn. At the top of the fund scale might be happy ever after. But the bottom can’t be all that bad now can it? At the bottom is only pleasure for one night.

With this attitude, you can choose to say Yes or No to the man the next time – and you can speak to him in Feeling Messages about your confusion – ALL BASED on how it feels to you in the moment.  The question isn’t whether or not you sleep with him.  The question is how you handle that afterwards.  Can you take it for pleasure, and not for “tomorrow” – or are you stuck in “tomorrow”?

If you DO feel stuck in “tomorrow” and what having sex will “mean” to him and to the possibility of a relationship…then it’s plain not going to feel good to you to sleep with him.  And if you feel all gorgeous and sexy and juicy and happy, and you don’t care what happens “tomorrow” – then you’re light years ahead of where you thought you were – and you’re on target for Happy Ever After with…your Mr. Right…woever he is and whenever he shows up.

Go easy on yourself Gina. Let me know how this attitude works for you. And later, let’s use the information you gather with your experimenting and experiencing to learn the Why, What, How-To and What If about saying “No.”

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Erika on June 10, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    I realize that I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating.

    What I hear from most of us women is that, no matter how good the sex is, we are going to be disappointed later if it doesn’t turn into a relationship.

    I’m just being honest here. Forget about all the “liberated sex” bullshit we hear day in and day out for a moment.

    Over and over again, we hear women saying, it felt great and now I feel terrified/guilty/upset/ashamed/worried whether he will call.

    Sex before commitment puts the cart before the horse.

    The commitment comes first, then comes the sex. How else are we ever going to relax into this experience?

    I know some women want to experiment. I’ve done my own experimenting. And I keep coming back to the same place: having sex before commitment does not hold men accountable. It does not require them to be men in order to have us. It does not require them to make a commitment. It allows them to have their cake and eat it too. It doesn’t serve us or them.

    The feminine energy women who have sex without commitment seem to be always triggered and upset and reeling.

    So why are we doing it? Is a moment of pleasure really worth all this?

    I don’t think so. That’s why I say NO. That’s why I’m going to continue to say no until there is a ring on my finger.

    I’m not judging anyone else’s choices. This is what is true for me.

  2.  #2Tina on June 10, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    I want a man for one night – if and only if – he has a large COCK – Oops can I say that. He can make me feel like I have fallin in love – court me – marry me – fight with me – divorce and break my heart all in one night. WOW that is my definition of a hell of a one night stand. Bah boom! walks away doing her happy dance.

    I like slow and steady as well. I was reading the ebook and I laughed at “ten week program” hehe. I feel to do the “ten week” thing if I can relocate my ebook.


    I bought the book and the link says they are sending me the ebook in pdf format however I dont seem to get the attachement for the ebook , just the email saying its being sent. I did read it at work though. I tried locating it on the pc but couldnt find it. I did request it be resent and the request was answered just not with an attachment. help

  3.  #3Jody on June 10, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    Ive had the same problem, I have tried to build a relationship numerous times on sexual energy. Either I’ve slept with him too soon, or messed around too much. Infact I know I have even have tried to seduce several men, in hopes I will please them, and they will fall for me. Its an ugly truth, and I’m not proud of it. I have even been turned down several times by these men over the years. Whats really funny, is that they were the ones who pursued me relentlessly until I showed my sexual interest. Then when I didnt get the response I wanted, my self esteem burned away to nothing. Thats where I am now. Then I get angry at them because I feel completely misled. I mean I get nasty. Even though I know the anger is with myself, and they have no responsibility to me, if I humilate my self by telling them I want to be with them. The anger is my way of protecting the little girl in me, asking for attention, validation, and affection. I haven’t learned how to meet those needs for myself. Really Im not sure if I can. Inside Im desperate to feel cared for, protected, and valued. This is why I keep making the same mistakes over and over again, expecting a different outcome.
    I do wish I could be there for just the pure pleasure, but I want to surrender to a man, be made love to, and connect emotionally and physically to one man. Ive only been with a few men, but Ive been rejected by 6 men, more than Ive been with. lol! and the only ones I really want, are the ones who are not into me anymore! but they sure came on strong, and were persistant. Right now Im stuck on one who led me on 2x. the first time he was all hands, infact he was a little rough at first, but yet I was so turned on by how much he wanted me. but he wouldnt kiss me. but when it came down to sex, he pulled away and ran. The 2nd time, he wouldnt even kiss me, I had to put his hands on me, and then he asked me to dance for him or let him watch me touch myself. I was devastated! still am… I feel like an idiot, humilated , I feel like a cheap slut, for wanting sex. I think I will be afraid to open up sexually ever again. I just want the pain to stop. I feel like if he doesn’t want me no one will, just like the other 5. help!!!! im drowning here!!!

  4.  #4Tina on June 10, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Mind you, this does not happen often. My feelings of this is enough excitement! I have not experianced this in the 18 months of my relationship. My feelings for Random sex has losts its appeal for me. I do take the juicy feelings with me when I go out dancing and having fun. Right now I’m just trying to boil eggs for a sandwich and searching for my ebook lol, in my wool socks and glasses lol. not very sexy or juicy.

  5.  #5Tina on June 10, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    He does say he wants to “respect me” ok fine – but could you just slap my ass or something ok then just uh tap it lol. I dont feel all that sexually adventurous, just oh I dont know…

  6.  #6Tina on June 10, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    “Worthless whore” rears her ugly head at the most inopportune times. I feel “worthless whore” when I am especially feeling needy, doubt – when I dont “get” what I want or feel I need such as love, affection or whatever.

  7.  #7alias girl on June 10, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    i ahve sex with a man whenever i want to and will continue to do so. i feel fine about it. i feel angry that so many women want to barter their p*ssy for some kind of commitment. men and women have found their happy ever after with what they thought were going to be one night stands. and women who have played by the quote unquote rules and waited so the men would Value them or their golden p*ssy more have been sorrily disappointed in their choices after marriage. also vice versa. bad one nnight stands and happy ever after for the chaste.

    see the movie the other boylen girl where she made him wait and want her so bad then once he got her he was bored and the chase was over and the results of that were horrific.

    if women follow their feelings and have high self esteem and know themselves then that should be a good compass. i can’t have sex unless i really like a guy (well ican but it doesn’t FEEL good for me so i choose not to.) i’ve done my expperimenting when i was younger and i can’t/ don’t want to do that.

    i also know that if i have sex with a guy i really really like i will emotionally boond with him. and i feel GOOD about that. i like to emotionally bond with men i like.

    i also know that even if i am emotionally bonded to a man i can walk away if it goes bad or it’s not what i want anymore. it may hurt but that’s life.

    life is risks. i am willing to get hurt. i am willing to love. i am willing to not wait for the perfect situation before having sex because i’ve done that before and that can also backfire and have you locking down with someone in a too soon commitment just so one can feel morally ok with the standard they’ve set for themselves.

    in fact i like to have sex with a guy as soon as i feel like having sex with him. but then again i like chaos so take this all with a grain of salt and consider the source. but it works for me and i feel good that my happy ever after will be with the guy i had sex with right away. well maybe not. maybe my happy ever after will be with the guy i didn’t feel like having sex with right away. who knows.

    i feel open. on the other hand i haven’t really slept with a lot of men so really i think people just need to find what FEELS RIGHT FOR THEM. and this post describes that process and exploration brilliantly.

  8.  #8alias girl on June 10, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    in my non humbled, triggered-by-this-issue-and-society’s-brainwashing-of-women, golden p*ussied opinion.

  9.  #9heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 12:01 am

    well said, alias girl!

  10.  #10heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I love your openness & energy AG & Tina!

  11.  #11Jody on June 11, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Alias Girl
    I love your feelings on this subject!! I need help letting go of expectations, emotionally and physically.. Just do what feels right for me. I give, say and act on what I HOPE will happen, even when it hasnt felt right. Maybe thats what has caused so much heartache for me. Any suggestions on letting go of expectations, and not getting so emtionally tied up, until a man has earned..

  12.  #12alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 12:19 am

    heartbeat is back!! i feel curious what your feelings are about all this.

  13.  #13Maria on June 11, 2009 at 12:45 am

    Erika! Ten points!

  14.  #14Daria on June 11, 2009 at 2:09 am

    Jody… try circular dating and Rori’s Modern Siren program. My suggestion is to to focus on YOU and what you want to do at a particular moment rather than on HIM.

    If ever feeling bad, desperate, humiliated… say that (instant power boost).

  15.  #15heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 3:30 am

    Yay alias girl – glad you are back too! I’m just passing through, polishing my Golden P*ssy award with an old woollen sock borrowed from Tina.

    I’ve been absorbed in new projects coming in – the universe has been truly bountiful this past while.

    I had a Damascus experience while listening to a very angry woman – oh she inspired me so much – she said ‘I’ve pulled myself up and done so much work on myself I’m not letting anyone or anything throw me off balance’. Now, those are just the words, but her power and dignity felt so powerful I was just washed over with it. Everything ‘clicked’ – and hey presto – I’m my own woman again. I feel like a wild goat romping round my amazing meadow, hurling myself against my lovely bouncy boundary fence (which is made of super strong elastic and decorated with bells, jewels and ‘welcome in’ signs).

    So I’m here cheering everyone on in the background 🙂

  16.  #16Jody on June 11, 2009 at 5:01 am

    Thank you Daria!
    Next payday I will order it. LOL! I turned my phone off this morning so I wouldnt know if the “I want u, I dont want you man” ever called. If he did.. ha ha! I guess its his turn to wonder, if he didnt, then I dont have to know. Im positive I dont want to feel like this anymore!!! He doesnt make me feel good about myself, not like when he pursued me. Im determined to move on, just wish I could do it faster!!! lol!!

  17.  #17heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 5:39 am

    Well done Jody! I feel like cheering you on. Taking care of how you feel is a crucial step.

  18.  #18heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 5:56 am

    Alias Girl I totally agree with everything you wrote above. It feels so ALIVE. especially love your willingness to enter the chaos zone, risking pain but also gaining joy and love.

    I’ve always done what I felt like sexually, it’s been a huge learning experience for me, not about technique but about feelings. And I can honestly say that I’ve never, ever felt disappointed if a relationship hasn’t developed after a one-off night of unbridled passion. Some mistakes and regrets – yes – and learning discretion. Beer-goggles kind of thing (long time ago!).

    I don’t feel it’s a ‘barter’ thing though if a woman decides not to sleep with a man early on, so long as it’s not a ‘rule’ and IS about how she feels. Rules make me feel crazy.

    Also – holding out for commitment for commitment’s sake wouldn’t feel right for me. On the other hand, if I wanted a relationship with a man who only wanted sex with me, I wouldn’t sleep with him – I would stay away until I felt I could just be friends, and never sleep with him.

  19.  #19heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 6:01 am

    I love the fluidity of my relationship. I love that we have our own spaces to live yet have exclusivity and commitment to growing together. I love that I have CHOICES in how my relationship functions, that there is no set template to follow. I love the joy and freedom I feel, and the sexiness of commitment – not a ring, not a wedding, just deep honesty and passion.

  20.  #20DocK on June 11, 2009 at 6:17 am

    Let’s see, yesterday I wanted someone to buy me a MINI Cooper and today I want a Golden p***y award too!

    I guess I have said some of this before…

    YOU get to CHOOSE!!

    I keep hearing that women have to have commitment with sex or it doesn’t feel good to them. If that is true for YOU, then those are your “boundaries” as Rori says.

    In my lifetime, that has not been the case, for ME. I have enjoyed my sexuality the way men are allowed to – maybe that IS honoring my “masculine” energy – and I have plenty of it – but I ALSO have a lot of “feminine” energy as well. I have had years of many partners and years of no partners. I get to decide. What I do not feel I have are internalized judgments about my sexual freedom. Sure, we ARE in different places at different times in our lives – if we ARE in a place where we want a commitment then we are fooling ouselves to jump into bed with a guy and think we’re not looking for more. There are other times – maybe when we’re young, maybe when we just want to recover emotionally froma bad relationship – whatever – that we just want to play. Again, we get to CHOOSE – the question is – are we choosing consciously.

    Sometimes, when I hear a woman say that she willingly got into bed with a guy, had a great time and regretted it later – I think, ‘WHY?’ Often, that regret may not even have anything to do with wanting a commitment at that point in her life. It is that she honored her desire, her passion – and made the decision to enjoy it, express it and share it – and then remembered that our culture puts labels on her for doing that and BAM now she feels bad about it.

    What I feel is worst of all – is not even when men call us by those labels but when women use those names for each other (and not in a kidding way). We just feed that (and I do NOT feel anyone here was calling anyone names).

    I heard on the radio a question – if a man asks a woman how many men she had before him what should she say? The question would not even exist for a man – a man gets to have as many partners as he wants and gets a pat on the back a nod and a wink. (BTW – the answer is THREE).

    When a young female celebrity is on a show, say Oprah, she will ask “so how old will you be when your dad lets you start dating?” The question is NEVER asked of a young male celebrity. When a guy wants to start dating OR even have sex – it is fine.

    Maybe I have taken the “rock star chick” attitude that Rori talks about in my past. I had fun. Other people who know me and know some of these guys say, “so and so was asking about you – he said you were one of the classiest ladies he’s ever me” – if you act ashamed after – then the guy knows you were being inauthentic in sharing your passion with him and will not respect you – if he feels you feel good about yourself, your decision and what you shared, he can STILL hold you in high esteem.

  21.  #21Jody on June 11, 2009 at 6:32 am

    Thank you Heartbeat,
    I felt strong an hour ago, but I want to call him now.. lol!! damn self control! I asked him yesterday if he ever told the truth, and that i wouldnt text, or call again. he did call, and leave a message, but I cant help but think if I mattered to him, he would have kept calling. This is hard, Im feeling fear, and I feel unimportant. but I did say it to get a response, and that isnt the right reason, its mind games, and im just doing what he did to me.. right?

  22.  #22heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 6:40 am

    DocK – Rock Star!! Love it, yes – my story too.

    Jody – yeah it feels awful when I do stuff to get a response – good for you to be so TUNED IN! You have to make your own decision re calling – you CAN get through the Ache Barrier (go do something you LOVE) or you might experiment and see how you feel (I don’t know your story in full, I’ve been away for a bit).

  23.  #23Erika on June 11, 2009 at 7:28 am

    hey Alias Girl,

    I really appreciate you sharing a different viewpoint than mine, and at the same time I feel fairly irritated about how you characterized my viewpoint.

    I don’t advocate being completely non-sexual with men, there are lots of things to have fun with short of intercourse that don’t get me “hung up” on them.

    I also do not view this as a “golden pussy” perspective, and your using those words feels particularly invalidating and judgmental to me. It’s not my pussy that is valuable, it’s my heart. My heart tends to follow my pussy, and I don’t want that to change because for me sex is not a recreation, it’s a spiritual union.

    I also do not view this as “bartering.” I view it as requiring a man to step up to the plate fully before he can have my heart fully.

    All that said, you may be right that there are other risks of waiting. But to me, waiting gives the relationship a chance to build deep spiritual and emotional roots BEFORE I get my heart fully involved.

  24.  #24Erika on June 11, 2009 at 7:42 am


    I like how you describe it as choosing consciously.

    Again, I am not judging anyone’s choices. Sometimes I don’t see the conscious awareness or self-honesty that I’d like to see. It’s painful for me to see other women in pain unnecessarily. And all too often, this is what I observe: a woman who decided to sleep with a man and is now obsessed with him when he doesn’t step up to the plate.

    Are there some women who can handle casual sex? Sure. What I observe is that it makes most women miserable.

    I express my views on this because I think there is tremendous social pressure on women to have casual sex, and to me it is valuable for someone to stand up and say, “if this is painful for you, you don’t need to do it anymore.”

    There are lots of women who think men won’t stick around if they don’t have sex with them, and I am here to say that’s not true. I have found in my own life that most men stick around indefinitely regardless of whether I have sex with them. And they want to commit, etc. etc.

    I think having a variety of viewpoints on this blog is valuable, so my request is that we respect everyone’s perspective.

  25.  #25DocK on June 11, 2009 at 7:53 am

    Hi Erika

    I appreciate and do respect all perspectives and that is why I keep referring to “choose.” It is funny, however, that our perspectives are opposite in the sense that I feel women are pressured to NOT honor their sexuality and the labels are part of what is used to keep us “fenced in” and your viewpoint is that women are pressured to engage in “casual” sex. Interesting.

    Maybe it just goes round and round. Women want to have the freedom to enjoy their sexuality – as men do – without labels and/or FEELING dirty and get to CHOOSE to explore their sexuality if they WANT to – and so then maybe some pressure IS put on women to go that route (even if they don’t want to) as some sort of way of stepping up the process and getting us to that place of freedom.

    I also agree and have said this before – NOONE should feel pressure to have sex EVER – and that includes MEN and I know men that have had sex when they didn’t want to because they feel judged in a different way if they don’t.

    If a man has decided that you are “the one” he will be there and HONOR the woman’s CHOICE to wait or not wait and for how long – to engage in sex. You are right.

  26.  #26heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 8:22 am

    Could be an age thing – I’m 50 so I’ve developed in the context of repression of women’s sexuality (in my upbringing and socially).

  27.  #27Erika on June 11, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Yeah, I get the concerns about repression of women’s sexuality. That’s definitely not what I’m recommending.

    Last weekend was super erotic for me, and we did not have intercourse. I felt like it opened me up in new ways that would have been diminished if we had rushed to have sex.

    I’m not talking about repression. I’m talking about deliciously extended foreplay …

  28.  #28DocK on June 11, 2009 at 8:33 am

    Yayyyy for “delicious” : )

  29.  #29Linmayu on June 11, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Like Alias Girl, I have sex with a man whenever I want to. The difference is that for the most part, I actually don’t ever want to, and never have, except for with my husband. This is not repression, and does not feel like repression. This is plain, honest lack of desire on my part. I look back on my dating history and there isn’t a single man I’ve been with where I can say, “Damn, I wish I’d had sex with him.”

    When I was younger and lustier, it was definitely harder to remain unsexed, but it was still my choice, made based on what I wanted. There were plenty of men I might have wanted to have sex with had they wanted to date me, but since they never dated me, I’ll never know.

    I don’t have a golden pussy to barter for commitment, because it’s not for barter. It’s not for barter because my heart, soul, and spirit are inextricably linked to it, and they cannot be traded for anything. I feel upset and misunderstood when anyone suggests that I’m actually repressed and lying to myself.

  30.  #30alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 10:09 am

    jody hang in there. lean back lean back lean back. keep doing all of rori’s tools and it will get easier. focus on you. YOU. how do you feel? sink into the feelings. i don’t know your whole story either but i do get that you are in pain and focussing on him. also i’d start with rori’s ebook if you don’t already have it.

    dock and heartbeat i felt very liberated to read your perspectives.

    ericka i learn from everybody’s perspectives and experiences whether i am on the same page wit them or not. i fel triggered when someone uses the colloquial WE when talking of women so i feel like they are including me in their idea rules or boundaries or conclusions they have made for themself.

    i feel confused why you felt judged.

  31.  #31Aldonza on June 11, 2009 at 10:16 am

    I’m a frequent lurker who feels compelled to join the fray here today.

    I have sex when I feel like it. Sometimes it’s absolutely delicious, sometimes it’s meh. Even when I chose a rather tawdry one-night stand, I drove away somewhat defiled and knowing full well that I would not hear from the man (except maybe months later when he was going through his “booty call” list), I did not feel whore-ish. I went into it eyes open. FWIW, the sex wasn’t worth it, but the experience of walking away whole was.

    I’ve made the mistake of waiting until I was full and well bonded with someone before getting sexual. Yes, I said mistake. It was a mistake because it was a man who I had great intellectual chemistry with, but had *zero* sexual compatibility with. It was beyond frustrating for both of us. I’d rather learn about all of a man as I go along and make decisions based on more information than less.

    However, I’ve also made the mistake of thinking that very strong sexual chemistry was enough for a relationship. Yes, he desired me and I desired him, but he did a terrible job of meeting any of my other emotional needs. And I did a terrible job of expressing those needs and pulling back when they weren’t being met.

    I’ve learned that having sex doesn’t make me needy and anxious. Having an intense attraction to someone who isn’t meeting my emotional needs (regardless of sex) makes me feel needy and anxious.

    – Aldonza

  32.  #32searchingwithin on June 11, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    I have to agree with Erika on this one.

    I also read on a man’s blog where he stated that his father told him as a young man, to look into her eyes and ask yourself, “Is this someone I would want to have a child with”, because condoms break and things happen. A good motto to live by, in my book.

  33.  #33Rori Raye on June 11, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Welcome, Aldonza, and thank you for the great, insightful, and VERY helpful post. I look forward to reading more from you, Rori

  34.  #34Linda on June 11, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    I wrote a little about this a post ago. Interesting that we have this subject here to spring from.

    I am 50 years old. Married my HS sweetheart and was a virgin. Followed the rules. My sex life as a married woman was terrible. For reasons I will not list. For 29 years yuck. … I never felt like a woman. In my 40’s I began to go super nova or something!… Had desire but he did not. I was a loose loose situation. When I separated from him (am divorced now) I met a man that rocked my world. I could not get enough. He was unfaithful to me and I was devistated but have recovered… What did I learn. I am a healthy woman and like sex and often. For me it is just an act mostly unless emotions are tied in by both partners. That is not to say that I cant feel desire and juciy toward someone.

    In my circular dating I have let myself be with 3 men. One, I wanted and still want a relationship with. Time will tell on that…. we did have some great sex! The other two.. one was yuck and I felt pressure and reluctance before I did it… we did not have intercourse but both satistifed. The recent was just this week. I just felt juciy and went for it. I drug my feet alittle but and did not have intercourse either… he seemed to have a great experience!…. (smiling)…

    I suppose I am experiementing, experienceing my teen years now in my 50’s… I let myself go here so I can learn about me and I have. Bottom line is I have desires and can find a man willing to fill them…there is no short supply of them… but it means nothing to me. I feel empty afterwards. I have not beat myself up over it, well with one, but it was just yuck. This last experience was two bodies seeking needs met. It is not yuck and no guilt but… not sure it is my cup o tea.

    Letting myself explore this area has been good. I know myself better. I know that the emotional connection is missing for me. I would like to meet a man who wants to be with me in every way. Likes me, adores me, etc. Spend time together and desire grow from that… The one guy that has been in and out of my life that I really care for has come so close to letting himself emotionally attach himself all the way. One day he wants me the next he doesnt. It really feel bad. So I have to close that down. If he returns then he will have to prove himself that he is worthy of being open to again…. I dont think he has met a woman that has actually gotten under his skin in a while and it unerves him… that makes me feel good. Even though we are not communicating now, I know he thinks about me… if he didn’t care then he would have jetted for good the first time he tried. He is not my concern now. What I am concerned with is me.

    I think I will let myself be open to sex if I want to. No guilt. I dont like the casual thing but am not beating myself up over it. I do want a commitment and relationship and then the physical will be enhanced. I would have not known that if I had not experiemented.

    Live and learn… discover and create your boundries. I am not going to let myself be pressured … but am not going to pressure myself to follow some iron clad rules like I did in the past. People say that a man will not commit to someone if they sleep with them… I see it happen all the time. I dont know what the rules are, I just need to do what feels right for me.

    I think I will wait for Mr Right now. He is in for such a treat!


  35.  #35alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    linmayu i feel so thrilled to be a part of your process and opening and goddessesness. i feel good the more i learn to ENJOY myself. literally enjoy be in joy with myself, my body, my thought, my formed opinons (changing from moment to moment as i read this blog) my hobbies, my wardrobe, my sense of humor- the happier i am. i feel like revelling in my life and self and sharing with other people whoo like what lve got and want to play together.

    linda and aldonza i feel exhilerated to read your experiences.

    i feel floaty today. 🙂

  36.  #36Anela on June 11, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    I also agree with Erika ~ nothing against anybody else, I just also feel this way:

    “It’s not my pussy that is valuable, it’s my heart. My heart tends to follow my pussy, and I don’t want that to change because for me sex is not a recreation, it’s a spiritual union.”

    I have zero interest in intimacy with a stranger, and the thought of casual sex just doesn’t turn me on. I’m turned on by commitment, by knowing that the man I’m with won’t be bouncing to another woman the following night. The “hit it and quit it” attitude that so many men seem to have, does nothing for me.

  37.  #37Daria on June 11, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    I wrote the e-mail to the job insisting on my good qualities. I feel amazed that it is already Done! I thought it was gonna hang over me and actually feel a little confused that I “don’t have to” feel stressed and bad right now. lol.

    Alias Girl the comments you have made about letting the energy go where it wants to have REALLY helped me… I was doing so great with that yesterday and felt energy moving all around my body, now I realize that when I feel intensity the energy is wanting to MOVE!. THANK YOU.

    I am having a little more trouble today with it than yesterday, however I know I will get it.


    On my way to being wonderfully loved.

    Had a great time yesterday with a man that missed me while I was gone (he said I didn’t miss him… I did a little bit). Feeling so good being myself.

    I actually feel the independence and evily power I wanted to feel before when I would want to be more like a guy… now I’m being womanly and dating circularly and not getting attached feels like being that “player” that I wanted to be before… except I know I am not really a “player” for nothing, I am doing it for the best cause of having true love and the relationship I want and blessing all men with my Goddessness.

    I am so enjoying being given to… enjoying touching him, his hair and skin, I am feeling powerful. I totally get it about doing what FEELS GOOD in this moment and saying no to what doesn’t (even if it woudl feel good in another time/circumstance, etc).

    I also see the puppydog men, although they may be wanting to give, do NOT feel good… they feel draining and I feel guilty aroudn them. I am also progressing on saying.. I feel guilty and I don’t feel attracted etc…


    PS My mom and I are joining Toastmasters next week.

    And she now wants to go to acupuncture with me.

  38.  #38heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    I feel worried. I feel uneasy that my mentioning ‘repression’ might have been taken as a comment about anyone else – that’s certainly NOT what I meant, and so I want to say a bit more as I was rushing a bit earlier.

    The age thing – or rather, the ERA thing… when I was a teenager there were the awful double standards around even though the 60s/70s were supposed to be a time of liberation for women. I felt confused. Too many expectations/rules conflicting with one another. So MY liberation has come from following my OWN feelings, something I feel everyone here would agree on – no question of ‘sides’.

    I get triggered by the universal ‘we’ as well, I hope always to speak for myself only, and if I do anything different please give my goat a good shake by the horns!

  39.  #39heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Daria I’ve been following your journey and it FEELS SO GOOD!

  40.  #40heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Winks, Linda! 🙂

    I’m off to bed now, it’s felt interesting today.

    I’ll just finish by adding that I slept with my man on our first proper date (we met two or three times socially in a group and talked on the phone a few times) and now have a great connection emotionally, sexually and spiritually. I’M NOT SAYING that it is the right template for everyone, I’m not even saying it would be the right template had I met a different man, it’s JUST WHAT FELT RIGHT. And Rori’s tools helped me get to that feeling-place so I could choose.

    On that note – time for a good night’s sleep, ‘cos tomorrow… it’s the weekend! Night all xxxx

  41.  #41Pooja on June 11, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    I totally agree with what Erika says in the first post. If women don’t want this to keep happening, then they shouldn’t be having sex without a commitment from the guy. It’s just setting yourself up for heartbreak otherwise (among other possible not-so-great consequences). If you really care about the guy in the first place, and if he cares about YOU, then you would both be okay with waiting. I think he would respect you even more if you waited for the commitment; that shows that you value yourself way more than most women do who just give it away to any guy they go on a few dates with. Most guys I know want to marry a woman with good values and who respects herself; these others who want to sleep together so quickly, the guy is not gonna see them as marriage material, only time-pass. And i’m sure that’s not what ANY woman wants.

    Just be smart about this stuff, girls… the right guy will agree with your decision and respect you even more for that. And if you find a guy like that, he’s a keeper! =)

  42.  #42Linda on June 11, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Aldonza, thanks for your post. Linmayu you too.

    If I am really open and honest I feel as both of you do. My experiences have been similar to Aldonza’s. What the experiences have shown me is that like Linmayu says and is my true me. I dont want to barter with anyone. I have found that my heart ,soul and spirit are linked intrisically to my ability to have a great intimate experience. There is such a huge difference between sex and intimacy for me.

    I want intimacy,(which for me involves emotional connection) it is like constant foreplay for me. It feels delicious. It makes me aware, sensuality and feel juicey and open all that the same time. I want to find a man who is willing and wants to rest in the glory of a connected committed relationship. Having experienced that once.. nothing less will do.


  43.  #43alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    daria that feels really exciting. toastmasters sounds awesome, i feel happy you and your mom are bonding.

    i felt scared that i was going to become a frankenstein. that’s what i told emily. i told her she was creating a frankenstein. she said i am creating myself. but i related to what you said about feeling your power as a goddess (and purely as a human being) . that’s what i meant by frankenstein. i feel really self empowered and i guess maybe i feel guilty about that so i label it frankenstein when really i am becoming a better (in my opinion and desires) person and more goddessy.

    i never even read frankenstein so i am probably not even using it as a proper metaphor.

    i feel good that the energy is moving for you daria. emily has helped me alot.

    i don’t think rori will mind if i do this since i first got emily’s contact info from rori in one of the posts but if anyone is interested in somatic trauma resolution (energy work) emily vanhorn’s # is 310-904-3698. or website is

    if it is inappropriate to post that i feel ok with that part being edited out.

    i feel good.

  44.  #44Daria on June 11, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    I am realizing I have mega intense socializing energy which works well in new york but not so well right at this second in our bay area.

    Seems much of what there is to do here is drive around and smoke.

    No wonder I really liked having my guy friends, they had a street where I could be outside and run around and also people wolud come and stop through. Um I already knew that right.

    now I feel more empowered to create this for myself, while also feeling my mega energy that wants to go out… move a lot… and interact with people…

    even though I felt kinda scared sometimes of lots of people hehe

    I have decreased my anxiety about smoking, ever since I went to new york its like my body and mind aren’t really into beating me up about it.

    I also REALLY reccomend Limes to anyone who drinks… really heps me nto get hungover or feel gross. In fact limes with a corona seem to have been Helping my health.

  45.  #45Erika on June 11, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    Heartbeat and AG,

    thanks for noticing the “we” — I don’t mean it to be universal, and it was unintentional. like everyone else on here, my intention is freedom for all of us to do what feels good to us without pressure from peers or men.


    You said it so beautifully:

    “I don’t have a golden pussy to barter for commitment, because it’s not for barter. It’s not for barter because my heart, soul, and spirit are inextricably linked to it, and they cannot be traded for anything.”

    Thanks for that.

  46.  #46alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    so i emailed this guy that i felt bored and unengaged..this is a first time feeling message for me inspired by daria’s quest and experimentation. i felt really bad writing it even though i feel gross communicating with this guy.

    his first email was: hi sweetie how are you doin?

    i emailed back: thanks for email. i like activities at the beach sometimes too. i feel weird when anonymous men online call me sweetie. i feel degraded though that’s probably not the intention with which it was written. i feel bad saying my truth about that.

    he wrote back :no problem so what do you like to do? where do you live?

    i wrote back:
    i feel good to try and start getting to know each other. i feel weird when a man asks questions that are answered in my profile. i feel bad but i feel bored going through the same info with men if it is listed on my profile.

    he wrote back: yea, sorry alias girl. i sent this email early in the morning around 4 i guess. so u must excuse me, maybe i was dreaming about you and i wrote you this email with stuff that u already shared in your profile 🙂

  47.  #47alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    i wrote back: ok cool. i feel bored and unengaged.

    he wrote back: ok alias girl well hope we could meet. i am going to play squah ttyl do you have an msn hotmail or yahooo so we could chat if you would like too or a phone number 😉

    i wrote back: i feel amused. i don’t want a continuation of something that feels boring.

  48.  #48Daria on June 11, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    i feel amused that Alias Girl’s guy is pursuing despite her feeling messages that are not flattering to him… i guess that’s how it works… they feel attracted anyway…heheh

    i feel gross being called sweetie… this one guy who really likes me does it and I am going to share with him next time… maybe its part of why i don’t feel very attracted to him

  49.  #49Linda on June 11, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    I dont like sweetie either. I dated a guy for a bit who’s dog was named that!…. lol Sweetie feels generic and “almost” important to me.


  50.  #50Erika on June 11, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    I just watched Twilight for the first time, and I feel fully turned on 🙂

    I love it when guys call me sweetie and darling and baby and babe, unless they are creepy. But my guys aren’t creepy … they are wonderful. They are sexy and fun and have devoted themselves to understanding what women really want.

    I want to be taken and fully claimed. I am loving my position of abstinence, even if it draws a lot of opposition from a lot of men and from a lot of women, because the sexual tension that I feel with these men feels absolutely delicious.

    At the risk of pissing everyone off here (lol ;-), I hope nobody listens to my perspective cuz I love giving men what they really want and having men lined up around the block. Ok, I may well have triggered everyone in sight with that kind of arrogance….

    lol, I feel light and amused. I feel obnoxious.

    but Alias Girl said she hates to be bored.

    haha 🙂

  51.  #51Daria on June 11, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    lol … i love Erika’s “obnoxiousness”…

    I love having men lined up around the block too.

    I want them to come pick me up right now… although I also want to drive myself (independence trigger).

  52.  #52alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    thank you erica for being concerned over whether i am entertained or bored or not. i do feel entertained by your feelings of obnoxiousness and arrogance.

  53.  #53gina on June 11, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Oh I’m so upset right now. I’m reading “The Zahid” by Paul Cuelho, and he just said something about how, if a person doesn’t listen to “the voice” (of God) and arrives somewhere too early or too late, then things can never be right in their lives. I feel like I SCREWED UP!!!!!!! I had this magical surreal experience where I was a spokesperson for a controversial national campaign – if I described it, you would know what I was referring to – and instead of humbly rising to the occasion, I started very strong, and then began to force myself in different ways. I made a rash decision to move to NYC, and it didn’t make any sense, and things just fell apart. I felt so incredibly blessed, decided I didn’t deserve it, I started trying to control things, rather than be prepared and say YES to opportunities, and I put a strain on things that could have been much easier. I began to make mistakes where I could have been very successful if I didn’t impose that pressure on myself. I made a move to NY, swam upstream without a paddle, lost the respect of many people (namely MYSELF), and became the most mean, bitter person in the city. From the moment I got there, it was a disaster. It felt like I was in a thick haze. And now I’m back in my home town. It’s been a couple of years, but I still feel crummy – like I missed my chance. Oh, why did I do it??? To cope, I’ve told myself that I shouldn’t give myself so much credit – that God put me in the pits, and I just had to make do with the cards I was dealt. But that statement in that book triggered a major emotional response to my true belief – that I SCREWED IT ALL UP. I had more than my very wildest dreams served to me on a silver platter, and I basically rejected it cause I felt unworthy, and I’ve been proving my unworthiness to myself ever since. I recognize that this train of thought is destructive in a sense, but I know that this belief is undermining all the actions that I take every day. I want to change directions. I want my life back. I want joy, vitality, SUCCESS, PURPOSE!!! I’m saying yes to life to love to success and abundance. I forgive myself. I am so sad for the lost opportunity. I forgive myself. I am moving to a new apartment, I am starting a new job to make enough money to have the freedom to pursue goals that are more clear to me than they were before I moved to NY. I can see that the massive failure in NY doesn’t have to be like Cuelho’s book. If I can learn from it and rise above it, I’ll have something to be really proud of. booo hooooooo…..

  54.  #54Daria on June 11, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Aww Gina! Big hugs. Feeling like “it will never be quite right again” and missing the moment are big triggers for me too.

    I felt that I missed my chance at happiness by not moving back to Romania when I was in highschool. I am now recovering my love of life… and for the first time in awhile I am doing well and the desperation is healing.

    Thanks for sharing.

  55.  #55Jody on June 11, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    every person has there own boundries, some have learned them, and some are still learning. Well, i caved and texted him. When I did I felt scared, He was mad, I said some harsh stuff yesterday. I didnt appologize, I went on and talked about business. made a few jokes, and ended the text conversation 1st. haha! he did call this morning, he even blocked his number, and forgot to unblock it, when he tried to call this afternoon. I feel a little amused by that, when he brought it up, I said I know im arrogant, and difficult, buts its my undeniable charm! he said not arrogant, just confident. Idk what to think. or what to feel. Im so drawn to him, turned on by the idea of being close to him, but yet so afraid, and lacking confidence. got him fooled!!! lol!! honestly if he wanted me now, I would be in the moment, enjoying and memorizing everyone sensation, every touch, and every movement. thoughts of tomorrow would be out the window. I feel happy with that thought, haha! Im afraid to say it, but.. its true… I need laid!!! lol!

  56.  #56gina on June 11, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Thanks so much Daria.
    Ugh. This feeling reminds me of the ladies in Grey Gardens – especially young Edie. Have you seen the new movie or the documentary? Their story is interesting cause the womens’ dreams are lost, but then they come true, in a sense, as a result of the film/documentary. I’ve been triggered in general, lately, looking for an apartment – I miss Chicago so much (where I left to move to NYC) Also My friend came to town last weekend and she gave me a speech about how I’m 28 now (bday yesterday), and I should be doing more with my life based on what she sees as my potential. Her comments stirred stuff up for me – resentment, but also sadness and anxiety. Feelings have been building up, and tonight I feel like I just had “an episode” or something. Now I’m so drained. I think that the way I was looking at my choices bout NY affected my relationships with men: it has done a number on my self esteem. But then, I guess low self esteem cause it. I considered the lesson learned was that I couldn’t trust myself- that was one reason why I felt I should feel guilty about sex with a man. Actually, a couple of bizarre situations with men have been the perfect punishment for ways that I was already mad at myself. I broke some “rules” with men, and gave myself more reason to punish myself and repeat the pattern. No good. ugh so drained…

  57.  #57gina on June 11, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    jody – would you be “memorizing” for tommorrow’s sake?

  58.  #58heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    I’m outta here – I feel angry and unsafe. Deliberate antagonism? No thanks.

  59.  #59LDR Girl on June 11, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Thank you for this Rori!

    This post is really helpful to me because I’ve been very confused about sleeping with a man..and feeling hurt that he’s not committing to me.

    I like this statement from you:
    “I had such a phenomenal time with this man, it doesn’t matter what happens next.”

    I just have to look pleasure in the eye and stop beating myself up for giving into him because after all, I wanted it to happen and it felt good at that time. 🙂

  60.  #60Linmayu on June 11, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Gina, one thing I know beyond all shadow of a doubt is that it’s NEVER too late to listen to the voice of God and have one’s whole life turned around so that it CAN be right again–no matter what one has done.

    And for those who may be triggered by the G-word, I have this to say: I cannot distinguish between the voice I hear when I call on my own deepest self and the voice I hear when I call on the God of the Bible. It’s a still, small voice, the silence after the burning bush. Time and again I’m given deeper insights, a wellspring of knowledge that comes from within.

    There is a story I heard recently, which I believe is from the Bible but am not sure, and in it, a prophet received a vision from God in which he was told to go to a certain city and stay there for some time, but to neither eat bread or drink water, and then to await further instruction from God. Along the way he met another man, who said to him, “Come, stay with me, and eat bread and drink water.” The first man replied that he could not do this because he was under orders from God. The second man said, “Do not worry, I am also a prophet, and I received a vision from God saying that you would come this way and for me to give you food and drink.” So the first prophet went with the second prophet and they shared a meal. No sooner had they finished, than the first prophet was struck dead on the spot, because he had turned away from his own Divine guidance and listened to someone else.

    This story feels relevant to this discussion, because I am reading so many different descriptions of how sex should be, and it’s so plain to see they are ALL right. But someone else’s way would not be right for me and vice versa.

    It also feels like what happens when I turn aside from my true voice to listen to a nasty voice. That really does feel like dying inside.

  61.  #61gina on June 11, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    I didn’t mean to antagonize. i’m sorry – i can totally see how that came out crummy. I was inspired by jody’s statement of liberation, and the word “memorize” stood out to me. I’ve been obsessed with the memory of a guy’s touch (of all kinds of things) – so the word “memory” makes me think of something painful. By pointing it out, I was hoping to clarify the collective thought process of liberation. But I also thought that maybe I’m the only one obsessed with memories, so I thought there might be another take on memories. Like how they can be cherished and good – which actually I hadn’t thought of cause that’s how negatively attached I am to memories right now. Rather than say all that, I bluntly asked a question, and I can see how it came off rotten. Again – I’m sorry I came off as challenging – I should have put it in the framework of my own point of view.

  62.  #62Jody on June 11, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    I guess I would be, Ive got it bad for this man, and being with him sexually would probably intensify my feelings for him. But I also know, it would do the same for him. It could make things worse, or it could make things better. Ive never had a one night stand on any level.. but its a chance I would take. ive made it clear to him, that being with him would having meaning to me, thats why he walked away from a very instense sexual moment. If he was a complete jerk, he would of taken me, and left. To me sex isnt just an act, its allot more, but Im human and my mind and body want pleasure to. really who cares if someone is comfortable with a one night stand or not, we all handle things differently, and have different boundries. “WE” all are human. I truely feel some rules are just chains to make us feel bad about being human, made by people who are miserable with themselves. Im just looking to love and be loved, and the only rules I need are my own, and my self esteem. Thats why I joined this blog, to learn and to find comfort from other women who are learning to, like I am to be alive!

  63.  #63heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    no no not you, Gina!! I’m not referring to your comment.

  64.  #64gina on June 11, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    Thanks very much for sharing that story. But doesn’t it prove that it’s possible to screw up?? Like a person could listen to their own ego’s idea of things and miss their higher calling. I feel confused – it seems like there are multiple ways of looking at it, and I guess that’s part of what determines the outcome. You could believe in one true love or one true calling, but then if it doesn’t work out, with that philosophy – you could be miserable. If you believe in infinite possibilities, then failure can lead to success. It’s a choice of which paradigm to live in. It’s funny cause yesterday I was feeling low, and I kept getting really awesome “signs” – like at one point, I randomly looked up at a television, and there was a cartoon song and dance with fireworks and big blinking signs that said “KEEP MOVING FORWARD!! Leave the Past behind, and KEEP GOING!!” Later on the cartoon made the point that it’s easier to blame people/circumstances than to actually take responsibility for life. You’d think that would be all the sign I needed, LOL.

  65.  #65Jody on June 11, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    I cant say that any sexual experience has left me with a bad memory. It might not have been physically or emotionally satisfying, or even for the right reasons, I may have been trying to manipulate a response. The bad memories for me have to do with things ive said or done. more like acting out of fear, instead of acting on my best interest.

  66.  #66heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    I feel calmer now. I felt upset before, and deeply angry.

    Erika, when I read “At the risk of pissing everyone off here” and “I may well have triggered everyone in sight” I do feel pissed off and triggered because I’m not interested in sides, opinions or holding tightly to one position. I’m here to continue healing, I hear your concern for many women that underlies your perspective, and I love to hear your OWN feelings of pleasure in making your own choices – fabulous, juicy – good for you!

  67.  #67heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    I’m feeling very interested and excited in this discussion about following a divine calling v. our own mind. I’m remembering the awful feelings of confusion and anxiety I get when I try to figure things out in ny head, even the smallest detail feels painful, evry decision feels major. It feels a dreadful place, hell on earth!

    I’m reading Eckhart Tolle’s ‘A New Earth’ – there’s some wonderful moments in the book where he offers simple tools to return to the sacred ‘now’ and feel ‘presence’ – totally in accord with what Rori says, the two go well together. Also Marianne Williamson’s ‘Everyday Grace’ – beautiful writing, simple daily practice. Both refer to the Divine as God, Jesus etc but the spirit of the books feels open to all.

  68.  #68gina on June 11, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Actually, I don’t have bad sexual memories, either. I just feel like a slave to memories sometimes – good and bad, in general. I think about good sexual memories, and it’s like a way to fend of loneliness. And by replaying these scenarios, it gives them so much weight and importance – it builds up the relationship in an unnatural way that actually feels heavy. Seems like the guy can sense the weight, too. It makes love feel impossible and difficult. I think that’s partially cause of my sex laws, too. But it’s tough. Cause one thing that I disagree with Rori on is the potential “bottom” being pleasure that leads nowhere. I totally see how it fits in to the point she’s making in the blog, but what about the bigger potential consequences like babies and STDs? I know that’s boring, but awareness of whether the guy would be a good potential dad, or if he’s kinda gross, is a bummer. One reason I may beat myself up after sex is if I start to consider whether the guy was worthy of the risk.

  69.  #69alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    i am so relieved you found a way to feel safe on the blog heartbeat. and to speak your truth. i feel inspired. i feel excited that you found your voice and did not just bolt.

    linmayu i feel really delicious to read your god story. i feel weird saying i felt delicious but that feels like the right word.

    i feel sad that if i were my tru self i would be considered eccentris crazy lady. on one of rori’s programs, i think it may have been targeting mr right. ? i don’t remeber.she talks about getting ourselves a doll or something. well today i found a stuffed bear and he’s so cute. and i’m not one for stuffed animals or dolls at all. so even when rori said it i kind of dismissed it in my mind like yuck. but my bear is so cute and he’s been hanging out with me all night.

    and then on my walk home from the grocery store i was thinking how i’d really like to wear a cape. and i thought oh geez. a woman with a cape carrying a stuffed bear. i feel sad and amused at the same. eccentric closeted crazy lady.

    i feel sad face. i would judge a woman on the street waering a wacky cape and clutching a stuffed bear to her chest. i would judge her as wacko. in need of supervision.

    i feel vulnerable sharing my eccentricity.

  70.  #70heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    My life has changed dramatically since adopting the practice of morning prayer and gratitude – not in a church way, but in a very unguarded, gentle and feeling way. Unexpected coincidences leading to me recieving what I want in life in ways I couldn’t have imagined, love, connections, joy and abundance in many forms. Sometimes I get tripped up by feelings of being responsible for cocking up, but it’s getting easier to ‘let go’ and ASK for help.

  71.  #71gina on June 11, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    You’re not alone, alias girl. If I could do what i really wanted, I’d walk down the street picking at my split ends while talking to myself. Haha. For real though.
    Hey, you weren’t kidding…that does feel vulnerable and

  72.  #72heartbeat on June 11, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Oh hey AG – I love that! The cape & stuffed bear. I’m curious about Rori’s purpose, I’ve had various significant figures which have shared my journey – still have my Ted from when I was born, for a time I had a rabbit who was significant (when I was pregnant lol!). I feel resonance with certain things, like they carry a healing charge in ways that are not fully conscious. Divine.

  73.  #73alias girl on June 11, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    oohh different threads going on. i felt interested in the voice of god/self/all/nothing also.

    gina i relate to your last comment about sexual memories. sometimes i feel like i put energy toward the last man who sexually excited me until the next man comes along. like if i need to slot someone into my masturbation fantasies it’s often a recent ex. is that putting energy towards a man that is harming my goddess vibe?

    i agree it feels good to have discretion with whom one chooses to getting physically intimate with. and to try and have a disease conversation.

  74.  #74heartbeat on June 12, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I feel like putting some energy into gardening now – it’s morning here, and a beautiful one. I feel blessed.

    I’ll catch up with everyone later. xxx

  75.  #75alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 12:07 am

    heartbeat i can’t beleive ted has been with you the whole time. ted’s seen it all! hehe.

    i don’t really pray anymore but i do love it when i feel connected to god/self/all/nothing. god. sex. eclairs. in that order. yum!

    yeah gina. feels totally tripping to be super revealing on this blog. hehe. yeah i’d be talking to myself too.

  76.  #76alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 12:15 am

    happy gardening heartbeat. i feel bad. i feel weird i used to unspeakable words Masturbation Fantasies.



    echo echo echo echo heeeeellllloooooooooo????? echo echo echo aaannnnnyyyyyooonnnnnneeeee???


  77.  #77gina on June 12, 2009 at 12:15 am

    haha, I’d be singin,’ too. It’s been fun chatting. I’m definitely feelin’ better – thanks ladies. Time for bed. Gnight..

  78.  #78gina on June 12, 2009 at 12:18 am

    Hahaha you’re a hoot alias girl. hahaha i’m glad you said the words “masturbation fantasies” (hahaha) cause your question for Rori was good and specific – I hope she answers cause I was wondering the same thing.

  79.  #79gina on June 12, 2009 at 12:19 am

    BTW, it’s good to have you back Alias Girl!! I was missing your comments, and I’m glad your back.

  80.  #80alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 12:37 am

    aww. thanks gina. i feel good to see you posting and using rori’s tools and circular dating and experimenting and practicing receiving. and i believe we always always always get second and thir and fourth and times a billion chances. i feel i am here to experience happiness and god/self/universe/all/nothing wants me to be happy. i get as many chances as it takes and i get to change my mind all the time too. 🙂

  81.  #81Flipper on June 12, 2009 at 3:31 am

    Amen, Alias Girl. And I love eccentric. It feels so confusing and daunting when everyone appears to be the same. Different even bizarre feels intriguing and encouraging – people dare, it’s ok to take risks, that brings sunshine and breakthroughs, and empathy when it was a bad risk.

    I felt bad when Heartbeat felt upset, and now feel relieved that you have come to a better place. I had read your comment first and then scrolled up to see where it came from, but could not feel any animosity or real provocation myself. Happy gardening!

    I feel the ‘we’ (and often use it myself this way) is not to designate how things Should be for everyone, but for the Ones who feel the same way. To me it feels inclusive and supportive, a comforting collective validation that I am not alone in my feelings about this or that, however much I take individual responsibility for them. But I don’t feel criticized or ostracized if I don’t feel in sync with a particular ‘we’ group – I feel contentment that they feel community on the issue. Some generalizations can and must be made (to indicate typical or widely shared, not Only possible or permitted) – they must not be manipulated to impose norms on all or excuse exclusion, and always remain open to challenge and modulation.

    I really related to what Gina said : my own feelings of unworthiness constantly fuel my self-sabotage. And somehow seeing and articulating my specific actions/inaction to make things kaput make things worse! I guess I have to go the next step and articulate the feelings being covered up, Feel around for intentions and Voice Them. Repeatedly. Feel them, not just ‘know’ them and tell myself ‘ok, dragon slayed – quick, let’s find another stick to put in the spokes’ so I have and excuse for failing or mediocrity.

  82.  #82DocK on June 12, 2009 at 6:23 am

    OK – now I’M feeling triggered – although I try not to take things personally, everyone has a right to her opinion. I feel frustrated, however, because I do feel that there is judment in some comments – terms like “value” and “barter” and “respect” – because a woman CHOOSES to honor and enjoy her sexuality.

    Do I not value and respect a man even if he has had sexual partners before me? Yes. He can do the same for me – if he doesn’t then that is a trigger for me that he is very closed-minded about women and I don’t want him.

    I have a friend, now divorced, she was a virgin when she got married. Her husband wouldn’t allow her to do anything but the missionary position. Cheated on her left and right (including when she was pregnant). I guess he got his fill of more unconventional positions elsewhere. Now I am NOT saying that if a woman chooses to wait that this is her fate – I am saying – I don’t think we can tie everything up in neat little bows when it comes to “respect” and “value.”

    On the other hand, I had an 8 year relationship with a man that I had sex with early on in our relationship. HE is the one that wanted to get married and have babies. At a certain point, I had to let him go (sort of reverse of what women go through). I talked with my mother yesterday and he gave her a ride “up north” where she lives. When I visit home, I see him, we are still friends. He never did get married (or have children – this does NOT make me happy). We were all watching TV one day – some show about looking for a replacement for a particular character in a broadway show. When I asked what it was about my sister said, “oh -they are looking for a replacement for “Dock” (obviously not the real name of the character) and this ex-BF looked at me and said, “there IS NO replacement for “Dock.”

    I have had other relationships with men that I had sex with early on that were long-term relationships. Again, they wanted to get married, I didn’t (I was married and divorced before I graduated from high school – just wasn’t that interested in it any more – I suppose some people would put labels on me for that which don’t sound anything like “doctor”).

    Again, I say over and over and over again, do what you want, CHOOSE and be content with it. I just feel that assuming that every guy out there buys into the whole “you don’t buy the cow when the milk is free” saying and will not respect or value a woman – for me – that has NOT been my experience. Not once.

  83.  #83JasonSavage on June 12, 2009 at 6:31 am

    “I had such a phenomenal time with this man, it doesn’t matter what happens next.”

    This is empowerment. This is owning you life instead of letting it happen to you. Nice.

  84.  #84Tina on June 12, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Ok, Where’s my wool sock!. He “boyfriend” came home – my house. I greeted him at the door. This time the door was locked – I had to let him in. I was feeling anxious, excited – I dont know. I visualized my hands – palms open, recieving gifts. He did not “give” me any gifts – not the point I suppose. He did a strange thing this time. He walked in, did a circle around me and came up behind me and put his arm around my waist – feeling me up lol. I touched his arm – smelled his arm. You know the rest…

    We layed in bed – I wasnt feeling particularily “turned on” by him. I wasnt ” numbed out” either. I “let him” do whatever he felt like doing. I layed there , my thoughts going every where. I said ok Tina, do this thing. I visualized myself and I felt myself “melting” . I connected with the world around me. I did lose my ebook lol so I felt I had to uh – improvise lol. Hey girls the missionary position is not dead! lol. It’s a good way to start lol. Anyway a few positions later along with my wild crazy sexual fantasies kinda took over – needless to say – a couple of orgasms later – I felt pretty damn good. We ate chicken soup – had a few discussions and went back to bed – I rented a movie – he slept. I’m not sure if i feel “hung up or not”.

  85.  #85Aldonza on June 12, 2009 at 9:13 am

    I’m laughing at alias girl’s masturbation fantasies problem…because I’m the same way! In fact, after a particularly draining break-up, I had to give up self-pleasure for a time because it brought up painful memories.

    But I’ve been mostly mulling the “go for it!” vs “golden p*ssy” argument. I worry that waiting too long for sex pre-selects for men who aren’t inherently that sexual.

  86.  #86Chanel on June 12, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Hello posters,

    I’m just writing to say thank you. I mostly lurk around here but I’m learning a great deal from you and from Rori (of course).

    I’m coming out of a 20-year marriage so I’m clueless as to dating.

    Rori: I get what you posted about having sex with a hot celebrity. I made out with one of my favorite rock stars (and I was 40 years old, lol!). Even though it was very exciting (200 fans were applauding) and made me feel like a goddess, I felt pretty empty afterwards, because I realized I didn’t know the man.

    As far as the debate going on, for the longest time I thought I was kind of like Madonna. I feel very strongly that women should be able to express their sexuality without any stigma or double standard.

    However, in my own life, I guess I fall somewhere in the middle between Erika and Alias Girl and it is taking some trial and error to figure out what works.

    The first thing I did when my husband left was to sleep with a very cute guy. He was 38, never married, never lived with anyone. I came to find out later that he has a very large trail of broken hearts behind him. When I read Rori’s description of a Boy Man, I thought it had been written about him.

    In my mind it was just sex, just for fun. Unfortunately we had great chemistry and the just sex turned into more sex, then dating, then breaking up, then friends with benefits, then breaking up. He was doing the come and go thing which was confusing me, to the point where I became completely obsessed with him and what he was doing and why he would call or wouldn’t call. I analyzed every word coming out of his mouth trying to understand his hot/cold behavior and drove him crazy (lol!).


    I had to ask him to leave me completely alone (which he still won’t because he still wants to be “friends”), the good news is, that the pain and frustration finally went away. I didn’t think it would.

    (So Jodi, wash this guy out of your hair completely, and you’ll be ok.)

    After that experience, I had a one-night stand, thinking that would be better for me, because I wouldn’t have time to bond. The sex was awsome.

    Unfortunately, unlike the Boy-Man who was all about holding me all night and cuddling the next morning and making me breakfast… the person I had the one night stand with gave me no cuddling or affection the next day, in fact he could barely look me in the eye… and THAT FELT AWFUL.

    It felt COLD and YUCKY. It totally triggered me. I felt like nobody would ever love me and I was going to die alone. I don’t remember feeling that depressed before. It really was TERRIBLE.

    I totally shut down and stopped all communication, as I tried not to cry while this man drove me to my car. In fact it freaked him out and he felt like he had done something horribly wrong.

    Now this is a nice guy, and he did call, and he still calls and we are becoming friends. I explained to him (using feeling messages) what happened to me and that he didn’t do anything wrong and he was happy that I took the time to explain why I reacted the way I did.

    I don’t feel ashamed or bad at all about the experience. I am thankful for the lesson. Like Rori said, he had a message for me: one-night stands are not for me, because I do need cuddling, affection, and friendship too, and I have to find out if the man can deliver on all those fronts BEFORE hitting the bedroom.

    So I’m circular dating now. I met a man and we had tons of chemistry. I decided to hold off on sex (which was VERY difficult, because his touch was almost electric, lol!). It was not because of how he’d perceive me, or because I wanted a long-term relationship. I held off because I wanted to find out how this man would make me feel.

    After dating, hanging out and making out with him for a month, I’ve realized that he’s the perfect guy… except for one thing: he’s got the wandering eye thing going on (lol!), and he likes to flirt with other women right in front of me, and I can’t stand that.

    So, I tossed him back, I told him we should be friends, and I intend to be his friend because, in general he’s a great person to be around. That said, I’m happy I didn’t sleep with him, even though I suspect it would have been phenomenal.

    I feel thankful for Rori’s work and this blog. I feel much more aware of what I’m doing in the dating world. All of your posts are helping me understand me. I have found that self-awareness is very important not only in dating, but in every aspect of life.



  87.  #87Chanel on June 12, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Jodi: Ignore my comment to you, I think I’ve misunderstood your situation…

  88.  #88Rori Raye on June 12, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Welcome, Anela, and thank you for your beautiful comment. It struck something in me, and I’m going to write more about that – if our sexuality is that powerful – what can it do for us if we turn its full force and power on ourselves? How can we use our awareness and experience of our sexuality – if our heart tends to follow our pussy – how can we reverse that, too – to enrich everything? Love, Rori

  89.  #89Rori Raye on June 12, 2009 at 10:40 am

    For me – this is all about Tantra. Sexuality and sensuality and the power of all the parts of ourselves, the energy centers, the power of eroticism, to “open” ourselves up. Very different from simply “intercourse” or “sex.” Rori

  90.  #90tinque on June 12, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Tina you crack me up. There is such a thing as too big though.
    This is a tricky issue to maneuver. For most men, the emotional connection develops through the physical. Is it so very different for women? some women? all women” any woman?
    I’ve never been promiscuous per se, but for me to really know with all of me if this is maybe the right man for me, the deep connection I feel with sex has to be experienced. The deep down “rightness” of this POTENTIAL relationship I feel when as one, with him. But there has to be at least a glimmer of “this feels so right”, and there has to be some hint of that from him too before having sex feels good, like something I want to do. It DOESN’T feel good to me without it.
    And you really will never know until you try, take the risk. Of course if this is the right man, the sex only gets better, more intimate, more intense, more…more.
    Commitment comes with time. And isn’t this something that is renewed every day, in every minute?

  91.  #91Jody on June 12, 2009 at 11:13 am

    u are right i should wash him away, he hasnt stepped up, right now I bounce back and forth like a bad check, with my feelings fo him. Im just trying to focus on me, trying is the key word.

  92.  #92Daria on June 12, 2009 at 11:27 am

    I feel jealous of all the Goddesses that are having super awesome feeling sex. Especially Tina and Chanel.

    I want super awesome feeling sex too. I feel a little worried.

    Thank you.

  93.  #93tinque on June 12, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Daria – super awesome feeling sex, for me anyway, has come with an ever deepening intimacy with my man, in all ways and on many levels. The more I’ve learned to open myself, be vulnerable, LET GO of my stuff, RELAX, the more amazing it has become, depth and frequency and types of orgasm, nuances of touch and sensation.
    Play with yourself for now if there is no one special. The variety of feeling and sensation is endless, and you may discover abilities within your body you may never have realized. All wonderful things to bring with you to share with a someone special.

  94.  #94alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 11:42 am

    tinque i feel good to read your comment. i would feel awesome in an ever renewing commitment and ever deepening bond and sexual relationship. i would feel GREAT!. and triggered too!

    aldonza i feel not so weirdo-ish that you related to what i wrote. i feel good to read your comment.

    chanel i felt interested to read your experiences. i feel glad to see you share.

    i feel inspired to give more info on the golden p*ussy. i had a guy once talking about someone he had sex with. and he was frustrated while talking. he said she acted like she had a golden p*ussy or something. and i found it funny. and then he said well actually she did have a golden p*ssy. and it is just like rori says. men will think of us as we think of ourselves. and i wanted a golden *ssy too that a man is frustrated about after losing access to it. hehe. i included myself in the category of golden p*ssy women.

    its like that 50 cent song. lyrics say one taste of what i’ve got. i’l have you spendin’ all you’ve got. hehe. which i find funny.

    my anger is not with women thinking they have a golden p*ssy. it is women who want to barte r it for commitment. it’s like a women withholding sex even when she wants to have sex because she has all these ideas in her head about how to manuever and manipulate to get what she thinks she wants. for me personally it ruins the sex and the honesty. for me.

  95.  #95alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 11:46 am

    oh and i don’t mean golden p*ssy to mean good in the sack or an experienced or acrobatic lover. maybe divine is a better word. just is. my p*ssy is divine because it is. it just is. although having a golden p*ssy award like heartbeat mentioned would be lovely on my mantel.

  96.  #96Linmayu on June 12, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Gina, yes, I suppose the story that I posted does prove that you can screw up, in a sense…and yet, no one knows what lies on the other side of death. They say, when a baby is born, everyone around him rejoices, while the baby cries alone; and when someone dies, everyone around him mourns and cries, while the dead one rejoices alone.

    So I like to believe that after this guy died, he was transmitted directly to heaven where God explained to him in a very loving yet firm way exactly what had happened and why, and then may have said something like “OK, try again,” and sent him back to be reborn.

    The fuck-ups, I believe, lead to greater blessings down the road.

    BTW, I feel highly, highly amused by Tina’s “large COCK…oops can I say that?”

  97.  #97tinque on June 12, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    “a women withholding sex even when she wants to have sex because she has all these ideas in her head about how to maneuver and manipulate to get what she “THINKS” she wants. for me personally it ruins the sex and the HONESTY. for me.”
    yes, yes alias girl. (Sorry I changed your words a little to stress what stood out for me.) xxoo

  98.  #98DocK on June 12, 2009 at 12:44 pm


    Your “golden p***y story reminds me of one that cracked me up too.

    Was in a book by Anais Nin (erotica). Someone was trying to tell a man that his wife was messing around and he said something along the lines of “that’s OK – her p***y isn’t made of soap – it doesn’t get smaller with use.”

    Anyway, I know I have a strange sense of humor and tendency to joke around – got me in trouble in school a bit in spite of good grades : ) sometimes the discourse here does get pretty heavy (mine included, sigh) and it feels fun to lighten up.

  99.  #99Mercedes on June 12, 2009 at 12:55 pm


    Man! Rori!! You’re gonna trigger me like CRAZY if you try to change those of us who have a heart that follows our pussy! There’s no need to reverse that…it’s a BEAUTIFUL thing!! Creates such an incredible sense of intimacy…awwww…please don’t try to change that about us….

    LOL…well…go ahead and post..heehee…your blog but…


    Heehee….just kidding…sort of…

    I’d love to hear your thoughts…but chances are good I’m not going to agree… 🙂 Bet there are times when you’re just REALLY glad I’m here huh? (*Said Sarcastically*)

    Much Love,

  100.  #100gina on June 12, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Again, I don’t understand your thoughts. What are the feelings you are referring to? Cause it doesn’t make logical sense to me to follow a pussy over a heart. Seems ideal for them to be in sync. Sometimes I feel sexually attracted to man who is simultaneously hurting my heart – I’m excited to hear more from Rori about how to handle that sort of unhealthy attraction.

  101.  #101Mercedes on June 12, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Gina: What I mean is…for those of us who sleep with a man and then find ourselves bonded to him (in our hearts…after the pussy thing has already happened)…that’s a cool thing. It’s how we handle it and what our actions are after that determine whether or not it’s unhealthy. I think it’s so cool that I sleep with a man (granted…it’s been years since I’ve been in this situation – I’m faithful and in love with my honey) and then find myself connected to him and wanting to keep him in my life. I love that and wouldn’t change it for the world!

    Now…that being said…we sleep with a man, feel connected and can’t stop stalking him or crying about him or drunk dialing him…that’s what I call unhealthy attraction. But…sleeping with him and feeling a close connection in our hearts and wanting him to be more (even if he can’t or won’t be)….that to me is a very special, spiritual, wonderful thing. Our hearts being connected to our love making (at least for me) isn’t something I’d want to change about myself.

    But…I didn’t ask her not to post…just let her know in advance that depending on the stance she takes…it could trigger me (or more like probably will trigger me). That’s okay…we all seem to get triggered here right? I shouldn’t have to be the exception to that…if I tried to be, I wouldn’t be me…LOL 🙂

    Does that better explain what I meant?

    Much Love,

  102.  #102gina on June 12, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Mercedes, I’m losing your meaning in the way you are communicating: ie: you just explained yourself in terms of “we” and not your personal experience and feelings. I get that you were triggered by something, and that’s fine. I am trying to understand what experience you have actually had that contradicts what Rori said.

  103.  #103Mercedes on June 12, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Gina: Let me rephrase using “I” instead of “we” (you are so right…I should not have dragged any other women into this. I was referring to the assumption there are other women out there like me. Thanks for catching me on that one).

    When I sleep with a man, I fall for him. My heart gets involved right after (or along with) my pussy. Afterwards, I want more of him in my life. If he doesn’t want that, then I need to choose my actions carefully in order to stay healthy.

    If I choose to stalk him or cry about him or drunk dial him, then…I’m in unhealthy attraction mode.

    If however, I choose to hope for the best, lean back and see what happens and take care of myself in the meantime (all the while hoping this man I allowed my heart to connect to and the man I gave my body to will come to me)…then I’ve just had a beautiful experience. I’d hate to see encouragement for that to change. I like that about me. I like the relationships I’ve developed because of it. I like the lessions I’ve learned because of it. I like it.


    Much Love,

  104.  #104Daria on June 12, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Mercedes i think what Rori means about Reversing (not just changing) that our heart follows our pussy is to

    Reverse it to

    Our pussy following our heart! Wouldn’t that be wonderful, to feel the heart feelings first and then be able to enjoy sex following that?

    thats what I understood

  105.  #105Mercedes on June 12, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Daria: YUP! YUP! YUP! If that’s the stance she takes I’m all over it! If we could get close to someone in our hearts and then sleep with them (as J and I did) it would be wonderful (and IS wonderful based on my own experience).

    What will trigger me is if she trys to tell those of us who sleep with him and let our hearts follow…if she says we need to stop our hearts from following…well…that’s tough for me. It works fine for some, but it’s not the way I want to be.

    Make sense?

    Much Love,

  106.  #106Daria on June 12, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Makes sense…

    although I personally on my sexploration journey am open to finding out everything i want about sex, heart following or not, my experience is that my heart Sometimes follows, which feels exciting too… i want to learn and feel more more more…

  107.  #107tinque on June 12, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Sorry but my heart doesn’t open or connect that quickly. Yes there’s an initial attraction beyond but not necessarily including the physical. I feel that something feels different about this person, right, but it takes my heart a very long time to open as trust builds.
    So I suppose my pussy speaks first guided by my intuition.
    Or maybe my heart knows something I don’t consciously, and it takes a long time for me to hear her.

  108.  #108Tina on June 12, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    I”m sticking to the honey pot imagery, that feels way better for me. I love the feelings (honey jar) brings 🙂 . “The Golden Honey Award. ” I have one already.

  109.  #109Mercedes on June 12, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Lol! Tinque: I never said my heart opened “that easily”. My legs don’t open that easily either. Takes a pretty special guy…

    Much Love,

  110.  #110Erika on June 12, 2009 at 7:09 pm


    You said: “This story feels relevant to this discussion, because I am reading so many different descriptions of how sex should be, and it’s so plain to see they are ALL right. But someone else’s way would not be right for me and vice versa.”

    Thanks for sharing that. It resonates deeply with me.


    Well, I hope you can sense that even when I provoke, my intention is always to heal. I have actually found that, at least for me, sometimes it is absolutely necessary to be deliberately provocative, and I was feeling that intuition in the moment I wrote that comment.

    I’ve had situations with men and at work turn around 180 degrees, I have seen the most unbelievable miracles in relationships … all because I was suddenly willing to stand up and be provocative.

    I would hate to see us be afraid of triggering each other and stifling ourselves …

    Remember many of us are here because we were trained to be way too “nice.”

  111.  #111Daria on June 12, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    I want somewhere to hang out where there are lots of attractive men and it feels good to be at.

    Thank you Angels.

  112.  #112Nikita on June 12, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    “The heart has knowledge of things the mind has no words for.”

    I read that somewhere.

  113.  #113alias girl on June 12, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    awww nikita. i felt like a secret cave just opened up in my heart. thank you for that.

  114.  #114Tracy on June 12, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    I have loved all the exchanges on this post and the different views.I have leant so much and i feel so happy to have understood all these from different points of view….
    Its helped me open myself up to all the possibilities and i feel relieved to know that i can choose what works for me.
    I have a few drinks with my friend and her boyfriend yesterday and i actually felt a different vibe with me…..I Felt more relaxed around them and i enjoyed myself so much…..It felt great to enjoy the moment and enjoy being me…..It felt inspiring…..

    I no longer feel hanged up on any man to make me have a good time…i enjoy myself either way….

    Mercedes said it so well on one post….that i have to take care of myself…and applies to my hapiness….

    I feel myself growing,i feel my self esteem rising up…i feel different…I feel that i am taking care of myself

    I have been trying to set up boundaries for myself and i have come to the realization that the more i take care ofme the more the boundaries establish themselves….sometimes i don’t even have to think so hard…it becomes a natural priority/condition for me…..
    I love this new journey and i am stillmaking mistakes and i feel that i do have a long way to go but i feel so greatful for the great feeling of achievement for what i have achieved so far…

  115.  #115Aldonza on June 13, 2009 at 5:53 am

    I’m loving this thread so much! So many strong, sexual, loving women being so *open* about this difficult topic! Who ever said vulnerability wasn’t strong.

  116.  #116Erika on June 13, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Also potentially triggering, but I feel compelled to share it, from A Course in Miracles:

    “It is impossible to seek for pleasure through the body and not find pain. It is essential that this relationship be understood, for it is one the ego sees as proof of sin. It is not really punitive at all. It is but the inevitable result of equating yourself with the body, which is the invitation to pain.”

    I’m all for eliminating guilt, as Rori says, but I don’t want to play around with the merging of chakras, which is what happens during sexual intercourse. (My Reiki healer is able to tell, during a long-distance healing session, whether I have had sex with a guy because she can tell when our chakras have joined.)

    If a man wants to have me, he can show up on my doorstep with a ring and a permanent commitment.

  117.  #117Daria on June 13, 2009 at 11:12 am

    I want to play with the merging of chackras! HEeeeeeeeeeeee

    I already feel empowered and a new sense of life from the last guy i merged chakras with.

  118.  #118Erika on June 13, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Lol 🙂

    Unfortunately I seem to get chakra-merging “hangovers”

    Plus I’m looking forward to the guy on my doorstep :-p

    I can feel him very close now.

  119.  #119alias girl on June 13, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    i don’t feel merged with every man i have had sex with so even if it happened i felt fine about it. and the ones i do feel i connected with i feel good about that even if it caused me egoic pain. some of my most painful experiences in my life have brought me great healing. i feel good about my choices and experiences. i feel good connecting with men i like, understand and feel comfortable with. i feel pretty confident that when i heal enough to become able to Tolerate intimacy better and when i truly amCapable of commitment, my good good man will show up. until then i am practicing and dating and if it feels right, having sex.

  120.  #120Cassandra on June 13, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Rori….I absolutely LOVED this post! While I can’t relate to the physical part in my life RIGHT NOW it has been a HUGE part of my past and DON”T want it to be a part of my future! Where in the hell did all of this guilt come from anyway and why?! I am working too damn hard on ME….& on loving ME in every way that I possibly can……and on learning to allow myself to be who I am AUNTHENTICALLY and basically say in that ever so present ‘nicety’….SCREW YOU to those who don’t like me (…so sorry….a little hidden anger appeared there unexpectedly! hee hee) and go on with my life and to allow that rotten guilt over pleasure to stop me from enjoying something that I love..whether it be Salsa dancing, kissing, my crafts, my music or even sex…..but there is a HUGE part of me…the bigger part of me actually that though I desperately want that freedom to choose….I want the whole thing….the making love….the LOVE itself…the affection….the caring and the committment!

    AG…..I love love love your take on this subject and I so admire your freedom here. I have so much respect for you and view on this and it is actually where I aspire to get to with regard to the FREEDOM of doing what feels good to me……even though right now there is NO sex…..NO kissing….NO affection…..NO anything of the sort in my life and hasn’t been for a very very long time! I am actually noticing that the more I emotionally DEtatch from Charles the more that I find myself wanting that raw….carnal….physicality with a man that I like or love…which initially feels GUILT RIDDEN but I am stopping that NV and turning it around to be a “no……if I feel good about this…if I feel safe and truly ok with it then it is fine” and right now in my life that feels good and so freeing actually. That does not mean that I would go out and sleep with the first hot man that i see that wants me but it does free me up to feel that IF I wanted to I could/ would and so be it. I want to feel wanted and right now in this house and this part of my life – I don’t feel wanted at all so what in the hell is stopping me from allowing myself to feel wanted?! I so so appreciate your candidness and openess with all of us!! XOXOX

    Erika…..I also have to say that I love your perspective on this as well. I want to find a way to meld both your perspective and AG’s because that right there is how I feel about sex right now – did that make sense? I know myself well enough to know that as much as I want to get to the point where I could have just the pleasure and no guilt – I too get emotionally and spiritually connected and that is where it gets hard for me to allow myself that freedom…..I am SO one of those that would get hurt afterward because I shared such a huge and deeply personal part of myself with that man and hence….a part of my spirit. Soul ties! So I do see what you are saying about the hurt that so many women feel after being physical with a man and then feeling hurt when it does not become a committment or relationship but I am talking here about the freedom of it…not so much the act and I know that I am not anywhere near where I want to be freedom wise….baby steps though! 🙂

    Heartbeat….welcome back GODDESS! I to have missed you tremndously! I feel SO SO happy to know that things have been going so well for you! Woud you please – if you feel comfortable tell me/ us more about your Damascus experience? I would love to know more about that that sent you into this awesome place with these wonderful boundaries – not that you weren’t already that way before! 🙂 I send you a huge hug and one of Daria’s beautiful flower bouquets!! XOXOXO

    Tinque….I love this…..”Commitment comes with time. And isn’t this something that is renewed every day, in every minute?” Beautiful and for ME this holds so true…thanks for sharing that!

    I too have noticed that a man will stick around whether or not you have sex with him if he is really interested. Remember “Dinner Boy”? He is still calling/ texting even though I have REPEATEDLY told him that I feel uncomfortable with being physical at this point in my life with him or anyone else (this is beacause of my current living situation and things tah I have to ‘clean up’ in my own life before bringing someone else into my heart/ life/ space in general) and he still calls/ texts me all the time asking to see me. I have actually seen him again but I did NOT agree to go to his place as he had been suggesting. we had lunch the other day and I told him that if he wanted to see me he would have to meet me OUT for lunch……and to my surprise……he did. That felt extremely empowering and I felt strong in doing that. It was nice to feel wanted. 🙂 One thing that I am currently struggling with is…..
    “To tell the difference between a real, honest, gut-level feeling, and a feeling that is COVERING the real, honest, truthful feeling.
    In other words, if your feeling is anxiety, or if you’re going numb, those sensations are covering up a deeper feeling.”
    I can easily find the bigger emotions but I am having trouble figuring out the more detailed emotions and if I don’t know what they are how can I communicate them to anyone? Does anyone have any insight on this? This is not just about being physical with a man but I mean this in general terms.

    This post is awesome!! Thanks to everyone who shared in this one……awesome! Love to all……

  121.  #121Erika on June 13, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    I feel happy to hear lots of perspectives on here. I’m glad to hear that for some women like Alias Girl and Daria, having sex with men feels enjoyable regardless of outcome.

    I am open to the possibility that I may feel more open about this someday, but my strong intuition is that my primary partner comes first and then maybe things open up more.

    Right now, I have visions of a man on my doorstep, recurring visions:

  122.  #122Nikita on June 13, 2009 at 5:57 pm


    I love your opening post on this article!
    I completely love your commitment to yourself in requiring a ring.
    Certainly it is not a one-size fits all approach but I admire and applaud your courage! Yay you!!!

    for the rest of us who are the feminine energy types you mentioned, I did learn a great trick from my mother. The ninety day rule. If the honeymoon period of dating lasts three months, and we get intimate before that; we basically have no clue who he is. Most men can filtered out in three months if they’re not serious. Of course longer is better but, from my research it takes a man 4 months to begin bonding. It’s going to take you at least 3 months to figure( or feel)out what his intentions are. There is never a formula that works for everyone but this one has served me very well. If a guy really likes a girl and has the quality of “readyness” he will stick around you and wait for and respect you all the more for it! Never feel guilty about this! If sex is all he’s looking for he can get from someone else. But he’ll call you the next day after getting his primitive urges satisfied if he cares. It might be an ex that he turned into a friends with benefits thing(that’s ok) as long as we keep ourselves clearheaded we can handle it. It’s that darn oxytocin that gets us in trouble with our hearts( that bonding chemical that our bodies produce during sex). All the more reason to circular date, in six months we get the pick of the litter; i.e. The cream rises to the top! This rule has always put me in the best position. I remember on some occasions the guy would crack up at the 80day mark! I was so relieved we hadn’t been intimate. It was so east to put my foot down at his behavior and throw him back into the pond 🙂

    P.S. Us girls can still check out the package while we wait to avoid buyers remorse, but if you’re not ready to sleep with him don’t get naked! He can but you keep something on, as a reminder of your boundaries.

    Alas,(sigh)we can’t all be as strong as Erika :)))
    But good for her!!! I love it


  123.  #123Nikita on June 13, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Grrrrr…… I despise when I post and see spelling mistakes!!!

  124.  #124Robin on June 13, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    I like this post, I feel like Im learning…

    Actually I feel weird and triggered. I took this new job and ts making me feel completely triggered.

    I was feeling scared of taking it, I prayed, asked for some indication to make it crystal clear what to do, had a dream where my former friend (of 13 yrs, she walked this past jan) old me that taking the job would change my vibe.

    Its in a tiny suburb, and my ex’s (the one at church) gf that comes upstairs lives in this suburb.

    So I felt triggered, and the next day m boss DRAMATICALLY cut my hours, so I took this new job, but now Im dealing with major triggers…

    I feel like maybe that was my nasty voice telling me to be careful and not take the job..

    So YAY Im triggered….

    Also, another guy from my church, who I went out with a few months ago, before circular dating, so he’s kinda pushed his way back into the picture, we went out last night, and he asked me to accompany him to a theatre opening this next week, I said yes, and later he tells me, I invited XYZ and his gf (my ex and his gf), do you have a problem with that?

    And while, wow, now I don’t care anymore about it at church, that made me feel crappy, I almost feel like saying no, not sure, I wanna go so…

    I feel so crappy and triggered,,

  125.  #125Erika on June 13, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    “I want somewhere to hang out where there are lots of attractive men and it feels good to be at.”

    Daria, if you’re interested in coming to one of Hristiyan’s workshops with me, let me know. There were LOTS of amazing, evolved, sexy men there …

  126.  #126Ann on June 13, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    My feelings on this are short and sweet. If my heart ain’t in it, my monkey(pet name for my p*ssy) ain’t following. No heart involved no swinging from the tree.

    Off Topic but I wanted to thank Jason Savage for reminding me of the quote: To Thine Ownself Be True.

  127.  #127Linmayu on June 13, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    I’m interested in Hristiyan’s workshops! 😀 Too bad I live in Chicago. D:

  128.  #128Tracy on June 14, 2009 at 12:08 am

    I love your post…..For me sex has felt really good when the guy and i were friends for the longest time….I felt safe and cormfortable and i realized that i felt more intune with myself…..Mine however turned to a friends with benefits and i felt confused as to wether i really wanted to go on with it so i started circular dating and meeting more men…No one has hit the safety net yet and most guyz i feel stop communicating after a while…they start off with so much energy then wader off shortly afterwards…Its fun though to meet all these men and experience life through their eyes….I am learning to interact with them,listen to them,understand them and honestly i am learning to enjoy it….I am learning so much about MYSELF…
    Yet no Mr Right guy has shown up and i feel afraid sometimes…afraid of getting discouraged..But meanwhile i realize i can enjoy this new experience and i do feel that i am going to meet this wonderful guy and i will experience an even better loving relatioship…
    What i have learnt mostly through circular dating is how to focus and shift my reliance on men to define my hapiness whixh i was doing with this guy i slept with….
    Once we became intimate,i made him responsible for my hapiness and when he wasnt there i was miserable…
    I am very attracted to him yes…i enjoy his company and he’s been a good friend…..however i feel that i want more than that and i am learning to shift my focus on myself and taking care of myself and that means looking for a guy who is not only my friend but someone who wants to have a relationship with me…I feel that i can have that as that is what i feel more cormfortable with right now….

  129.  #129Linmayu on June 14, 2009 at 12:55 am

    OH! This has nothing to do with getting hung up after sex, but I just had a Goddess/Diva/Pretty Girl moment tonight. After my friend’s wedding, I got dropped off at the train station to get home, and as is always the case at midnight on a Saturday, there were a bunch of people loitering outside the station. This guy looks at me and starts yelling, “Hey gorgeous! Namaste! Namaste! You’re so pretty!” And I felt angry and gave him the most withering look of death I could manage and just kept on walking. I was like, “Yeah, I KNOW I’m pretty, but leave me alone!”

    I realized then why I felt so angry. I do NOT like it when non-Indians say namaste to me, unless I’m in a yoga class. It feels patronizing.

    The following is what I would naturally want to say to this person:

    You’re trying to impress me by being sensitive to my culture, but you don’t know who I am–and you don’t know that you’re speaking the WRONG Indian language. You don’t know that what I want is to be treated like I’m the SAME as you, and not different. Why don’t you just say “Hey gorgeous, I’d like to tap that ass!” I know most people would disagree, but I’d consider that, classless and ignorant as it is, more respectful and authentic than trying to say namaste to me when my ancestors don’t even speak Hindi. Go eat a fat dick!

    hmm…ok…let’s translate that to feeling messages.

    I feel angry…I want to be seen as a fellow human being first and foremost. I don’t want to be seen as a cultural stereotype. It feels good to be appreciated, and it feels gross to be appreciated when I’m not seen for who I really am.

  130.  #130Daria on June 14, 2009 at 1:53 am

    Linmayu… that feels very inspiring. Thankk you.

  131.  #131Daria on June 14, 2009 at 2:10 am

    I was feeling lonely and bored and asked God for new female friends today.

    And I got 2. In the most unlikely place. I went to visit my friend’s uncle and met this girl there and then wound up hanging out there all day. And we also met her friend, and then another girl we knew separately showed up. Plus a date showed up for me.

    it was wow.

    Thank you.

    I almost didn’t realize what just happened but now I realize its just what I had asked for in the morning.

    I hope I get a similar or even better feeling day tomorrow!

    plus i got to walk around jsut ike i wanted…

    Now I want to naturally find myself doing exercises that make me feel good and get me he body shape i want

    i love my body right now… even with my fat tummy which feels great… because i know since i love it as it is it is really easy to change it since im already accepting it…

    its amazing how i can look great and feel great with a huge tummy that looks like im pregnant but i dO! My tummy gets really big when i eat… i love it tho… i guess bellydancing helped a lot with that… i now want a slim tummy tho thank u… thinking of my big tummy makes me feel good and smily… thinking of slim tummy makes me feel metallic in my mouth and kinda faded like… hmmm… iwant to feel good with a slim tummy too… i want a tummy that feels good good good good, just the way i want it… i dont want to worry about looking tooo skinny or whatever… i want to look wow turn on good to me… thank u thank u thank u and tahnk u for loving me with my fat tummy tooo i am feeling smily agian

  132.  #132Daria on June 14, 2009 at 2:28 am

    Nikita I really liked your book recommendation:

    I really like this line

    There is always plenty on man’s pathway; but it can only be brought into manifestation through desire, faith or the spoken word. Jesus Christ brought out clearly that man must make the first move.

    “Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and ye shall find, knock, and it shall be opened unto you. (Mat. 7:7.)

    This seems to be true for me about asking the Angels for help. Also it kind of means to me that if we intend something that is enough for it to start happening, so the first step to doing something is to intend it… (desire it and want it to happen… then imagining it actually happening (lots of triggers happen here))

  133.  #133Daria on June 14, 2009 at 2:31 am

    Nothing stands between man and his highest ideals and every desire of his heart, but doubt and fear. When man can “wish without worrying,” every desire will be instantly fulfilled.

    i am practicing wishing without worrying… it feels scary because my heart was going oh no and trying to close… dont imagine something so good because it CANT happen… etc…

    I’ve been practicing a few days and now I am just being able to start allowing myself to imagine without being stabbed by “im going to lose this” pain.

  134.  #134Flipper on June 14, 2009 at 8:33 am


    Your dilemma is a perfect illustration of how ‘thinking’ doesn’t help much when we’re emotionally triggered by something. You wrote “not sure (thinking), I wanna go so…” Well, that’s not an answer to the question asked which was “…do you have a problem with that?” So your date actually went straight to point and is inviting you to give him a feeling message. He seems to know what the real issue is here and want to respect how you feel about it.

    Nikita – your quote is from the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît pas.) Though he’d received one of the finest educations possible for the time, he literally almost died from being forced to keep to a strictly intellectual vision of life as a boy (Reason only). He learned to save himself through feeling, and his works became lasting and universal, rather than a sterile intellectual dead end (or himself just plain dead).

    Ann – so cute, your monkey. I bet she’s a real bonobo with a man that man’s up, but watch out for the orangutang with a wuss or a player!

  135.  #135Tina on June 14, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Honey – monkey – pussy – I dont give a rats ass what you or I call it, when I’m pissed I’m pissed. Can I take back my commitment to for the “ten week trial period”?. Ok I feel to “whine”. Hear it goes;

    “He” – i’ll call him that for now – I can think of better terms to use to discribe how I feel about him right now but I wont. He wants to leave tonight to go back to his work. His reason is – that he has be there a half hour earlier. So driving there tonight will save him time in the morning so he feels rested – ok fine. He never asked me how I “felt” about this – I dont expect him to now – silly me. I’m going to tell him how I feel about it. I feel sad – I will miss him when he leaves – he hasnt fully decided – I’m thinking and feeling that he wants me to be upset/pissed so he can take the easy road out and leave anyway. Guilt will make him stay and anger will make him leave. I feel pissed/angry/enraged that this is dropped on my shoulders to “handle”. OK, I just decided how I”m going to handle it lol. I will call him and tell him I feel sad and will miss him when he leaves. I dont feel to see him for the rest of the day or night – he aint gettin no PUSSY – HONEY – MONKEY LOL. I feel unimportant again. The kicker is this – I had to sit and listen to how his ex doesnt use her sewing machine to fix a ripped pants for their kid. ugh!. Like a give a shit!. I had about a foot of bed space all night and I feel irritated. I feel irritated that I sat through his ex’s sewing machine issue – he did this with a smile on his face a certain fondness, as if this was a happy memory – happy or not I’m pissed. I feel angry again – killing my tomaotos does not solve anything – well it solves the commitment of gardening for the summer lol. I feel to lay of the beach instead of babysitting tomatoes. I planted two sprouts today so I will continue to plant them. blah!.


  136.  #136Tina on June 14, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    My feelings when I am spending the night at his house – which i dont do often is completely different than when we sleep here. I’m not sure why this is , it just is. Thanks for reading my feelings of ‘complaining” I know what I must do now. I’ll call him I dont feel to see him. I understand your reasons for leaving early – which doesnt make sense to me but it will save me the indignity/embarrassment of begging/coaxing/crying/convincing/angry/arguing feelings I KNOW I will experiance FK that!.

  137.  #137Tina on June 14, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    I understand your wanting to leave early , I feel sad and will miss you. BYE!

  138.  #138Daria on June 14, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Tina wait!

    What about I feel furious!

    That’s what i’m getting here… not just sadness.

  139.  #139Tina on June 14, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    “He” brought over some corn for me to plant in “my” TOMATO garden – Ive tossed them in the garbage – WHAT THE HELL DO I LOOK LIKE A FK’N FARMER!. I feel so pissed off right now. I feel to complain. The door leak he supposedly fixed still leaks for god sakes. EVERYTHING he fixed is still breaking lol. He tilled the garden but its crooked and its to big for that i wanted. The sex suck! if I didnt go in to my “happy honey zone” i would buy a vibrator – speaking of …yeah mental note for self. He says im “nice” oh he doenst know i just killed his corn lol.

  140.  #140Tina on June 14, 2009 at 12:48 pm


  141.  #141Tina on June 14, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Ok, so ” I understand your reasons for leaving early, I feel furious, I’ll miss you bye?. lol. hm ok. Im digging out this huge rock, I think it weighs about 75 -100 lbs with my hands and a shovel. My puny tomato seedling looks so fragil lol. It’s a flat concret slab I dug up while making a hole. I’ll use it for one of my stepping stones. I painted one already and am waiting for it to dry.

  142.  #142Tina on June 14, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    He just left, I told him what you said Dariah lol. He said why you getting so mad Im not leaving. He started talking almost yelling about how dangerous his job is , I started to laugh – sorry lol. He said Im not leaving – I was not “nice” about it. I said to him I feel furious after fking you all weekend that you did not consider me in your decision to leave early – oops me bad. I said I understand your reason to leave early, I just feel “not considered” and unimportant and I feel furious. He said quit getting so mad, I said I wish I could but then I would just let people/you walk all over me. I told him about the bed space and his ex’s sewing machine lol. I said to him I cleared my schedule all week and weekend for your phone calls and sex and I feel pissed off. He said im not leaving so quit being so mad, he then started to sweep my floor. I said to him “you dont have to sweep my floor you know’. He did it anway. I said to him “if you want to make your big man self useful go lift that big rock out of my garden. He said ok but I may need help. I thought to myself “yes of course you do”.

  143.  #143Tina on June 14, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    i thought to myself , I do look like a farmer lol talking about how “furious’ i feel lol. He said he’ll be back later after he drops his daughter off lol. I kinda feel not to see him I have lots of work to do 36 tomato plants to get in the ground. I felt this feeling (a slow steady feeling of irritation) all weekend, to the point where I was standing in a checkout line at walmart feeling irritated at the checkout girl . I carried this feeling for a while now. Im glad its over and he knows how I feel – whether he wants to hear it or not – Im going back outside I feel so dirty lol dirty face, mud everywhere. He said I “let things get to me” hm Im ok FOR NOW!.

  144.  #144Robin on June 14, 2009 at 3:59 pm


    Thank you. Yeah, I felt so stunned that my response was an automatic ‘no’ (but the truth is I kinda do have a problem with them coming).

    Then I immediately caught it and looked at him and said I feel weird.
    My car battery then and as he was jumping the car, I told him I felt curious about the question (it felt to me like he knows that we were involved, even though I never told him about it…) He said well b/c it was just suppossed to be the two of us, but I invited them so they might come…

    So of course I felt weird at church and she came upstairs and wanted to talk and be friendly, and of course I felt bad

    I walked outside away from them when I could, practiced sinking in, the soup felt like my insides, I felt like I was floating thru my body, it felt gross but good, when I got to my pelvis, I felt completely relaxed and felt like melting, it felt great, so I went back upstairs and felt good the rest of the time..

    I was invited to go out Thur. night, so Im not sure what I will do, whatever feels good?

    I certainly feel better now, but I still feel a little triggered talking about it now…

    I just dont want to feel like Im tolerating something…I havent cared lately, but this feels bad to me

    gosh, I feel scared that Im going backwards, Whats happening???

  145.  #145Tina on June 14, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Thank you, Dariah for the “feeling” message. I was feeling angry, I just didnt feel the drama around it – that is why I laughed out loud and smiling when I said and listened to what he said. The whole scene lasted about 5 minutes.

  146.  #146Cassandra on June 14, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Does anyone have any ideas about this that could help?

    One thing that I am currently struggling with is…..
    “To tell the difference between a real, honest, gut-level feeling, and a feeling that is COVERING the real, honest, truthful feeling.
    In other words, if your feeling is anxiety, or if you’re going numb, those sensations are covering up a deeper feeling.”
    I can easily find the bigger emotions but I am having trouble figuring out the more detailed emotions and if I don’t know what they are how can I communicate them to anyone? Does anyone have any insight on this? This is not just about being physical with a man but I mean this in general terms. There may be another post that I can refer to as well….Daria? You are awesome with the getting truly in touch with your emotions thing!!

  147.  #147Nikita on June 14, 2009 at 8:48 pm


    oh dear, dear, dear me! Thank-you/WOW(gasp!) (sigh)!


  148.  #148Ann on June 14, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    Flipper LOL yeah my “monkey” can be quite wild but only when my heart is involved first. As far as a man goes that is lol

    I’m glad I joined in this post as I’m going to be away from the computer for a couple of days and I want to keep up with reading the comments at least. I’m no good at replying from my phone lol.

  149.  #149Nikita on June 14, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    ” All of our reasoning ends in surrender to feeling “……
    Blaise Pascal

    Flipper you Rock!

  150.  #150Linmayu on June 15, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Tina, I feel so inspired by your fury!

  151.  #151tinque on June 15, 2009 at 9:57 am

    “To tell the difference between a real, honest, gut-level feeling, and a feeling that is COVERING the real, honest, truthful feeling.”
    Cassandra – It’s practice really. And learning to be okay even if you can’t figure it all out which keeps you in your head and out of your body.
    When you feel emotions that don’t feel great but don’t know what they are or what to do with them, try being with them with all you have . Take some time to sink into whatever it is you DO feel. Sink even more deeply. Observe. See if anything shifts or changes. The deeper stuff doesn’t necessarily have to have a name or a memory associated with it. It doesn’t always have to be expressed either. If you are in a situation where you feel the need to express what it is you’re feeling but don’t have a clear idea what your feelings are, you can say just that, “I’m feeling bad right now, and I don’t know why. I feel it’s maybe something deeper inside. (Or I feel like I’ve been triggered, but I don’t know what it is or why.) I feel confused about it all.” Or something like this.
    Sometimes saying just this will help to clarify for you what is really going on, and sometimes it won’t. Either way it’s good. There doesn’t always need to be a clear and/or clean resolution to things as frustrating as this can be sometimes. Sometimes it just is what it is, and IT has no name.

  152.  #152Flipper on June 15, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Thanks, Tinque – that sure helps me, too!

  153.  #153Cassandra on June 15, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Thank you Tinque for addressing my question….I appreciated that and your post really helped me ‘get’ that not every feeling has to be ‘named’ or even recognized for exactly what it is that you feel but more so for the fact that it is there….am I right in this? This is something that I have been wanting to ask here for a while and I keep forgetting so I feel glad that this post somehow triggered me to ask this question. I am trying so hard to stick to feeling messages in everything that I do but I am feeling bored with the old…I feel happy or I feel sad or I feel angry or I feel scared because I know that there is something much bigger under those ‘names’ for the emotions that I feel. How did you ‘practice’ this? Did you just try to focus on feeling ‘something’ and then follow it around your body to seewhere it ends up and if it leads to anothermore ‘clear’ emotion? That is kind of what I ahve been trying to do but in the following it around my body…..I GET LOST! LOL Seriously though….I do…it’s like I am feeling a specific feeling and then I focus on where it is on my body and where it is moving to or morphing into but then somehow it’s like I get lost in the process! Am I missing something here? Am I the only one that feels this way? Flipper…I felt so much better when I read your post saying that Tinque’s answer helped you as well…..I feellike maybe I am the only one having difficulty with this part. Thanks again Tinque and good to hear from you again! Hugs to you!!

  154.  #154Tina on June 15, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Feeling sucks!. lol

    My feelings of sadness is the safe feeling for me. Angry feelings is the dangerous/unsafe feeling. My layers upon layers of feelings is so much work!. blah

    I feel sad, that I’ll miss you, I feel angry for feeling worthless and unimportant. My soup!. Throw in some vulnerability for flavor

  155.  #155tinque on June 15, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    You know what it sounds like to me Cassandra? You’re trying to hard, and what I mean by that is that you seem to still be in your head. It’s really rather nebulous.
    You feel whatever it is you feel. Sink into this. I don’t worry where I feel it so much as trying my best to relax everywhere. If I feel tight somewhere, I focus on letting that go, and if it doesn’t, oh well.
    I really do what I can not to think, no analyzing. It doesn’t matter where it came from or even if there is something under that. If there is something underneath, it will show itself, when it’s ready, and maybe it never will, or maybe it will be in a completely different mode, in another guise; it might even be a good feeling feeling, but so what. It doesn’t matter.
    It matters only that you feel the feeling. And try not to wallow. What I mean is don’t force yourself to stay in that feeling for whatever reason whether you feel you need “figure it all out” or that you have to stay there so that you can be very aware while you observe your feelings shift. It’s not precise or linear or logical.
    Like I said it’s nebulous. The feelings dance around, kind of like bubbles in a fizzy drink or rolling languidly like a gentle surf.
    If I feel really stuck or feel really bad or really tense to the point that I just can’t get my body to let go no matter how much I meditate or breathe into the tight spots, I go through the rest of my day as best as I can, flowing with all the ickyness as icky as it is, and when I go to bed that night, I sink as deeply into the ickyness as I do into my cozy mattress and soft pillows and as I sink, I sink into sleep. By morning the tension is gone and the ickyness has dissipated if not disappeared.
    Throughout all of this I DO NOT THINK. (As much as humanly possible anyway) Every time my nagging thoughts or lying gremlin voices intrude, I push then away, over and over again if I have to.
    I hope this helps.

  156.  #156DocK on June 16, 2009 at 6:59 am

    Tinque – resonated with me “trying too hard”

    Yesterday at gym, wanted to use computer available for members – they weren’t working. Asked, guy works there in an office for help. He said that I could use his. I had only ever waved at him seeing him there all the time but not spoken to him.

    I thanked him for letting me use computer (I feel grateful for your help). He says, “are you kidding? For you I’d move mountains.” My nasty voice is thinking, ‘Oh c’mon, I’m not THAT great and you don’t even know me.’ My little girl inside loves hearing that – eats it right up! I try to think of feeling message to respond and, say, ‘Wow, I feel special.’ Then I think that sounds too much like the comedy routine, “isn’t that special” and like I’m making fun and all confused and feeling silly. yup, feels like I’m trying too hard – not authentic. Finally, I just sat there and leaned back and let him set up computer for me.

  157.  #157heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 3:23 am

    Cassandra – thank you for your sweet, sweet comment <3 I’ve been following your progress and send you hugs. I feel love for your generosity to others, the way you give so much encouragement and praise.

    I haven’t much more to add to the story about the angry woman who inspired me, not many words anyway, except to add what feels very significant to my personal circumstances, which is that the person who had triggered her anger was a person who has depression/anxiety and also behaves aggressively to others – blaming, accusing etc. Everyone around this woman empathises with her pain but got fed up taking body blows. I felt sick to the stomach every time this person came into my sphere, but I had a prefessional duty towards her and felt in a dilemma. The angry woman (who was not angry at me) was so clear and real she healed my old fear immediately – it applied to my work relationship but also to my relationship with my man, who has been depressed and angry and blaming.

    The relationship is getting better all the time now. I felt ‘yeah, I get that’ and I switched gears right away to making myself happy whereas before I was feeling foggy (my mother was depressed and angry and adopted me as her ‘favourite’ so I spent a painful childhood treading on eggshells).

    Gosh that feels like a lot more words than I expected! I feel almost breathless…. and… breathe.

    I thanked that woman from the bottom of my heart, though she still feels a little guilty for feeling angry.

    Who know who will come on our path to nudge us into a better place. I pray she finds healing for her guilty feelings.

    And thank you, Cassandra, for asking!

  158.  #158Michelle on October 28, 2009 at 6:57 am

    All of these posts made me think of a new song by Leona Lewis called Happy. Its great! Take a listen 🙂

  159.  #159jessie on December 6, 2009 at 9:33 am

    I have good advice about the sex business. Go out with guys and DO NOT be alone with them….It is so simple. No time alone, no pressure to have sex where you might or might not have to deal with problems after.

    I grew up in a super strict religious cult and sex before marriage was forbidden.(DONT WORRY –I left it long ago) but it had some really good Basic rules for us girls growing up and also for avoiding rape or Date rape:

    Never be alone with a guy.
    Never go on a date where it is not in public.
    Always make first dates Group dates…first more fun and second you get to know them in a safer situation.
    Never agree to take a guy up to your apartment ALONE.
    Never sit in a parked car.
    Never get loaded drunk on first dates where you might feel compromised or could be BULLIED.
    Dont have sex to manipulate the relationship (oh he will like me more if I do this and I really like him).
    Never Never date a guy alone unless your BFF’s have approved him–too much dating is done where the guy is deep in your life and then your friends start saying….woah, this guy is no good and you dont want to listen.
    Always pick fun dates with group settings –parties, coffees with friends, dinner in friends home, and KNOW that you deserve those….
    First sign of a predator…he wants to get you alone on the first dates.
    Watch out for predators who peg you as being vulnerable and plan to do one thing and one thing only–get in your pants!

  160.  #160Melanie on June 17, 2010 at 1:39 am

    Hi Rori,
    I am new to this blog and I wasn’t sure how to write you so I thought I would send my question through this blog. First, I have recently purchased your “Have the relationship you want” E-Book and I am currently working on trying your suggestions and it has given me some hope that I can work through this stuff and get the relationship I want. However, I currently have an issue that cannot wait until I figure out how to develop your suggestions.
    My question/problem is as follows: I met a man (we’ll call him man #1)) a few years ago through a dating website, we connected almost immediately I felt excited whenever I was going to see him, he is a great man, great father (he has full custody) he is professional, sexy, affectionate and just an all around a great guy. We dated and I mean dated (we did have a very good sexual relationship) but it was still dating. What I mean by this is we never got to a point where we were really involved with each other in the normal day to day life things, mostly due to our distance we live about an hour away from each other and with both of us having kids and jobs we couldn’t really take it to that next level. So when we would get together it was going out for dinner, movies, having drinks etc. which was all great and fun. Somewhere along the way though I must have given him the idea that I wanted more of a commitment from him, (which I know I didn’t say, but I must have given him that impression by how much I liked spending time with him and he knew it). So as a result, he started pulling away, well I eventually after a few times decided to start dating other men because I got the impression he wanted it to end. We still talked every now and then but I moved on and we were “just friends”. However, even though we were “just friends” every time he called or we chatted online no matter who I was dating I always got excited and hoped that he wanted to try again or even just see me. During this time we did see each other a couple times and it was like we never missed a beat, we still had a great time and he always treated me with respect, admiration and even affection. So now I have been seeing someone else (man #2) for 2 years and during this time (man #1) has contacted me a few times and we always talk about getting back together and if we could make it work.
    Now, here is my problem (man #2) and I have been together 2 years and also a great man, there are things about our relationship that I do love. However, I just don’t get the same feelings with him as I do with (man #1) for example the excitement, passion, the sexual attraction/desire, pleasure or even the “masculine energy” that you talk about. For the past two years I’ve frequently thought that the perfect man for me would be a combination of these two men. They both have great qualities about them but one thing that is really important to me is commitment and not really the act of not seeing someone else at the same time (although that would be the ultimate goal) but the commitment to be there through all the normal everyday stuff and calling or even texting on a consistent basis even if it’s just to say “Hi, I’m thinking about you, or how’s your day? This is what I get from (man #2), almost too much. We literally talk multiple times a day, in 2 years I’ve talked to him every day at some point. This is what I DON’T get from (man #1).

    Now to give you more information on my current relationship as I said he has many great qualities he is caring, affectionate, consistent, comfortable, blue collar type and he has many other great qualities as well as only 10 minutes away. However, there are a few issues that I do have with our relationship and in my opinion significant ones.

    1. I don’t have the strong sexual desire with him.
    2. I don’t feel passion or excitement with him.
    3. He’s not as sexual as I am he says it’s not the most important thing in a relationship. I understand it’s not the most important thing, but it’s at least in the top 5 for me.
    4. I feel like our relationship is supposed to be committed but it was never really talked about it is just assumed or implied.
    5. I don’t get the masculine energy from him I am more the masculine in the relationship. (kind of divided between both of us, maybe 60/40)
    6. I feel like we will never marry.
    7. He says and has always said that he would not marry until he lived with someone first (which really doesn’t bother me, since I was in a bad marriage for way to long).
    8. But after 2 years and at our current age (mid 40’s) he doesn’t seem like he is even ready for us to live together (and honestly I’m not even sure if I want to due to the other items listed above.

    So as a result, I now find myself feeling stuck in a relationship with (man #2) and I’m not sure I want to be with him for the rest of my life and fearful to leave such a good man. Then to top it off man # 1 is currently starting to pursue me again. He wants to get together in the next week or so.

    I feel torn because I don’t want to hurt either one of them but I don’t want to stay stuck in a relationship. I want to be the feminine energy since I’ve been the masculine in all of my previous relationships. I don’t know if I will have a future with either one of them at this point.

    1. I am hoping you can help me determine what to do.
    2. Do I see (man #1) and see what happens?
    3. Do I tell (man #2) about (man#1)?
    4. Do I leave (man #2)?
    5. How does our chemistry play into this?
    6. Sometimes I wonder if (man #1 and I) are so sexually compatible that it’s lust instead of love but I feel like I love both of them, just differently.

    By the way, while I was reading your E-Book I have to say that the “masculine energy” characteristic is something you can’t always see in a man so as your dating it’s hard to know that they are looking for this “feminine energy” because I have dated many men that tell you they are looking for someone who is strong and independent which does not portray the “feminine energy”. However, I will tell you that throughout the entire time I was reading it. I realized and it was so apparent, that the masculine characteristics you spoke about were definitely a description of (man #1) in my story.

    I’m so sorry for the length of this I hope you will be able to take the time to read it and respond.

    Thank you for all the great information!

  161.  #161Rori Raye on June 19, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Melanie, Welcome – and this answer is much simpler. This is not about man #1 and man #2. This is about the ONLY kind of man who counts at all is one who loves you, who makes you feel loved, and who is THERE. To you, excitement and passion are triggered by distance and LACK of intimacy. This is where you need to work. If he’s not asked you to marry him after 2 years – you are doing yourself a disservice. Read about Circular Dating and the “Girlfriend Trap” and see if you can open up your options so you can develop yourself deeper – so you can feel stronger, more powerful, and know what you want and what you don’t want – and hold out to GET it. Also – Man # 1 doesn’t count – because he’s not THERE with you! Love, Rori

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